# how long do you let your pup just be a pup?



## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

good morning all,

In my recent converstations and correspondence with experienced working dog people i have come to see that there seem to be two distinct schools on early pup training. 

i have observed the "let the pup be a pup" school of thought. lots of folks i have talked to do some basic OB for manners/house rules and play/drive building/ foundation bitewok when the pup is young, but many of these folks have told me they dont really like to start serious training until the dog is close to a year. 

the other school of thought i have observed is the "lets get started right away" crowd. from the people i have enocuntered of this persuasion i have gathered they like to start training right away and do alot of training in a lot of disciplines very early. all of these folks have emphasized the importance of not going to fast for the pup, but still getting started with things almost right away. 


how do ya'll do it with your working prospect pups? 

are you an early starer or do you let the pup be a pup for a few months and then get serious later?

why?

do you vary your methods with the individual pup? if so why would you start pup x on serious training before pup y? 
thanks,
chris h. 

I have discussed breifly with several people the benefits of both methods but would like to know what some of the very experienced folks on here do and why they do it the way they do.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

i do the imprint work as soon as they are ready. you can start tracking every morning for food from about 5 weeks of age. you can shape a few basic OB positions with food and marker training from 5 or 6 weeks as well. i do some basic rag work with them early and some stake out frusration work at 7 or 8 weeks, just to imprint the basic gripping technique that I want to see. the truth is you can do nothing but take him places with you for the first year and he will still be fine if he has the right makeup, but most people dont buy a working dog to let him sit for a year before they work him.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

At seven weeks Chris you want to use the padded stick and beat the hell out of them. Then you will know if they are any good. And if you try it, don't tell anyone! LOL. Let them be as long as they want...


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

The last 2 pups I've had here:

Pup 1: Brought her home at not quite 6 weeks old and started training intensely, every day. Amazing little dog. Learned everying she needed to know in a lifetime by 12 weeks. After that, it was a matter of developing the behavior. Cool dog that works long hours and has fun the whole time.

Pup 2: Brought home at 7 weeks, taught basic obedience (sit-stay, down-stay, come, out) and put into a puppy raiser home. The puppy raiser allowed her to mostly just be a puppy. She was completely ruined for the work within a few months and was washed out.

Pup 1 was LESS suited for the work than Pup 2. Pup 2 was a much nicer pup for many reasons and she still evaluates nicely for aptitude. As a baby, Pup 2 had better focus, could handle longer sessions, was more biddable, had a natural retrieve, and had more public access exposure. But she has no work ethic and can't handle "long" training sessions because she didn't have that intensity of training as a pup. She has learned exactly one behavior since she was 9 weeks old. ](*,) She is 11 months old. At 11 months, Pup 1 was training approx 20 hours per week. 1.5 hours minimum on weekdays, and 8 hour days on the weekends. Pup 2 can handle 5 minutes per day. ](*,) 

"Just being a pup" ruined a nice little dog, IMO. Although I do agree with Mike that with the *right* dog, it won't matter.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

we have play time with a puppy, comes along to training, potty training and learns his/her name and to come on command. That's about it till puppy is about 8-12 mo old, Dick starts training later than I do, I'm closer to 8 mo to start.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I have talked and thought about this issue a lot. I have a 1 year old GSD that was started at 8 weeks old and I took him out to the FR club for 2 sessions a week until he was 5 months old. He started off like a super star, but he started his fear/ weird period around 5 months old and the training sessions were causing him a little stress. The commitment and drive was there, but his bite was weak and a little chewy. He also was getting spooked in a lot of environmental situations. I had some serious concerns about him and was told to put him up for awhile. For 4 months he was a farm dog, just worked some ob, little tug work and a little agility. In the last couple of months his maturity level as improved along with his grip. 

He is still a goofy puppy in the head and will probably fully mature later than most, but the early imprinting in FR bite work is so ingrained into him it's not like we are starting from scratch again. So, I wonder if it's more work to start later after all the puppy BS or if the early work at an impressionable age has long term benifits.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

Selena,

why do you and dick start your dogs at those ages? 

is just the way its done over there in holland as a whole or is it something particular to you and dick and/or something that works best with the particular dogs/lines that you and dick breed?


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I think it depends on the pup.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

At the club I train at, there are members who do not work their dogs until they are about a year old. My understanding is, that because they are breeders, they want to see what the dog has naturally, not what it has through training.

For me, I let my pup be a pup... she's a year old and miles behind some of the other dogs at the club that have had more intense training at a younger age. There's a couple of reasons for this, first, because I'm lazy and in no hurry to push my puppy, and also because I was told that she is from late maturing lines. Some of the younger dogs that have been pushed, are now being told to step back a bit until their brains/maturity level catch up with their bodies.


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## morris lindesey (May 2, 2009)

Al Curbow said:


> I think it depends on the pup.


I agree! Also, remember that if you don't have the luxury of just saying "I'm gonna let this pup mature some only to later on need to wash this pup out and just go to the next kennel over and try this pup" then start now. Some people are afforded this luxury. Some pups need to start early and yes some need to be held back to go slowly with. Generally, experienced people can make this determination. My feeling is the sooner you start, the sooner you can get a feel for what you are working with, be it if the pup is a fast or slow learner, he/she can still learn some things at appropriate levels for that individual pup. I equate pups to small children. Children of today are way more advanced in many areas than kids of the same age 30 years ago. It's mainly because people start doing things with their kids alot earlier than previous generations. Today, you see that commercial on TV with children at 3-4yo reading entire books with very little adult guidance, why because we are starting them earlier at an appropriate level. Children weren't reading books on their own at 3-4 years old 30 years ago. I'm 37 yo and my generation didn't start reading Dick and Jane books until about 5-6 yo. See Spot run. See Dick and Jane run..so you see even early imprinting still lasts 30 plus years later...lol Just my 2 cents


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## Rigel Lancero (Aug 22, 2007)

Al Curbow said:


> I think it depends on the pup.


Yup,not all pups are the same even if they are littermates.

Some can handle stress without conflict and some needs to be handled carefully.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I do as much imprinting and marker schooling as soon as I get a pup. Usually 6 wks.
By 12wk I expect sit, down and a informal come. I doesn't have to be stressful if it's made into a game.
I do it because I enjoy playing with puppys. No alternative reasons to get to early competition.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

chris haynie said:


> Selena,
> 
> why do you and dick start your dogs at those ages?
> 
> is just the way its done over there in holland as a whole or is it something particular to you and dick and/or something that works best with the particular dogs/lines that you and dick breed?


no, it nothing that is common (anymore) in Holland, I know Gerben start early for example.

We want to see what's "in" the dog, so it true character. we don't have to train to see if a dog is courageaous (sp?), independent, strong etc. 

Besides that, we usually only have puppies from our own line, they will be a goofy puppy till about a 8-14 mo. I start at about 8 mo, cause I can train more playfull as Dick can (being a woman and started in IPO), and if they are a little younger I usually don't have to put up a hughe fight if I contain their freedom a bit. Dick is about 1.80 m and 240 pound, I'm 1.60 m and about 120 pound...so I lack some physic strenght. If Dick starts to train it serious from the start.

I haven't trained in about almost 2 yrs now, I stopped when I was pregnant with Dennis. Tried to start again but isn't easy with a baby/toddler around. I like to start training again when Chrissie (now 2.5 wk) is a bit older (maybe next spring, than pippi will be over a year, old enough to start), I miss training. But training together means we have to choose which one of us can train, Dick also helps the other members (kinda like a TD, although we formally don't have one), the choice was easy that I stopped training for awhile.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

There is definitely no reason to hurry the bite work on the decoy, as that really is the easy part. However, doing the foundation work for me is a big part of training. Lots and lots of repetitions on sit, down, stand, a bit of heeling, like learning to do the turns and short stuff like that. I do not believe in correcting a pup while they are still figuring out what you mean. 

I also think that people have definate ideas about what "training" really means. To me, if you are teaching, you are training.


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

I am not into protection sports but this quote from one of my trainers is really appropriate for any sport. 

WORK = PLAY = WORK

At least that is the way most dogs should view it and what you should strive for in your training, for you and the dog.

The one thing I regret not introducing earlier is birds. My now almost 18 month old boy just retrieved birds for the first time 2 months ago. He is still a big goofball, but has plenty of drive.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Claudia Romard, breeder of my youngster Fiete (as well as my personal hero) has a cool article here that includes interviews with a number of trainers about raising pups.


My guy's baby picutre is on her website too!


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