# malinois



## ray duong (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello all I have been lurking and reading soaking up information on this forum for awhile. Does anyone know of malinois breeders or owners within driving distance of the greater Houston Texas area? You can post here, pm me or email me at [email protected]. Just want to find owners and breeders in my area to visit dogs,kennels, and talk to people who knows the ins and outs of their dogs.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi, Ray, and welcome!

An intro post is required here. 

http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f20/


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

Is this for pet or for sport? Why do you want a malinois instead of another Rottweiller? It just seems to be a major change in breeds. Just checking. Also, you have a new baby coming.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Annamarie Somich said:


> Is this for pet or for sport? Why do you want a malinois instead of another Rottweiller? It just seems to be a major change in breeds. Just checking. Also, you have a new baby coming.


I"m with Annamarie here. There are some malinois that are OK with kids but most tend to be too high energy for a family with a newborn and/or toddlers. Another Rotty might be a better choice?


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

You may want to search for a good Rotty breeder too. And then you get into working versus pet quality. From my understanding, it's hard to find a good Rotty now.


People usually don't get into mals unless they're training and competing in a sport. And folks usually or eventually go back to the breed that they had as a child growing up.


Remember, a mal is like a border collie that has been bred for protection. It is xtreme high energy and reactive and will need as much monitoring as your new baby. 

You are welcome to borrow one of my 5 month male pups right now to see if you want one. Ha Ha! I suspect you will be calling me within 3 hours. No seriously, we can have a meet and greet at a petsmart.


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

What do you make of Ivan's faq here: http://ivanbalabanov.com/malinois-puppies/faqs/ ?

I sometimes get the impression that if the malinois makes a good pet then it is a watered down version, but other times I begin to realize that a lot of people take their dog too seriously and make them out to be a lot more than they really are, or rather they puff themselves up with an ignorant concept of the dog which is quite different than what is really there.

Ivan addresses both hyper-active versus high-energy and he addresses the malinois with children too.

Personally, I find a hyper-active dog annoying. I have a high-energy dog that is not hyperactive, but I could use even more. I spend several hours every day training obedience, parlor tricks, tracking, nosework, and going for walks and a bike ride and then I want to put on a sleeve and he's not into it. I want to go to the club and he gets there and wants to chill out instead of biting the helpers. A hyper-active dog does not solve this problem. If anything it makes it worse. But a dog with lots of energy is necessary unless you expect them to just flop on the couch.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I was told a million times that a malinois would be too much for me and that I'd be getting rid of the dog in 6 months.

I got a German Shepherd bitch. If she's not in a down stay she is a nightmare in the house. Always wants to sit on top of you, lick your face, run around and find literally anything she can to put in her mouth. She's 2.5 years old. After a good training session or some exercise, she can lay down and chill for a bit. But not long before she gets bored.

I don't think it's a breed issue. I think it's a dog and handler issue. I think if I never taught this dog manners she'd be jumping on top of my counters (with all four legs) and eating everything.

I've met a good amount of malinois and I feel like I know what I want now. I'm waiting on a litter to be bred as we speak! My bitch really isn't the calm, turned off dog everyone makes shepherds out to be.

She's perfect for me. But I don't feel like getting a malinois would have been that entirely different.

Ray, do what you want to do. Go out to clubs and meet people with the dogs. Find dogs you like, find out where they came from and go from there.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Bart Karmich said:


> I sometimes get the impression that if the malinois makes a good pet then it is a watered down version,


When talking about the average pet home, I have to agree, if the dog is good in the average pet home, then it's a watered down version.



> but other times I begin to realize that a lot of people take their dog too seriously and make them out to be a lot more than they really are, or rather they puff themselves up with an ignorant concept of the dog which is quite different than what is really there.


I think there is a lot of this going around also, I see lots of dogs described as "extreme" "over the top" etc that IMO are good, solid, average dogs.



> Personally, I find a hyper-active dog annoying. I have a high-energy dog that is not hyperactive, but I could use even more. I spend several hours every day training obedience, parlor tricks, tracking, nosework, and going for walks and a bike ride and then I want to put on a sleeve and he's not into it. I want to go to the club and he gets there and wants to chill out instead of biting the helpers. A hyper-active dog does not solve this problem. If anything it makes it worse. But a dog with lots of energy is necessary unless you expect them to just flop on the couch.


But you aren't the average pet home either. The amount of time and energy you put into your dog each day makes that obvious. It's when an average pet home sees your dog, and thinks "this would be an awesome pet for me", but has no idea the amount of time you are putting in to your dog, that problems arise. I see it all the time, all the pet home sees is a well mannered, well trained dog with it's owner. And they think the dog is just naturally like that, and if they get a Malinois they won't have to do a thing, maybe just a PetSmart obedience class, and their dog will be just like yours.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Instead of reinventing the wheel, I'm going to copy/paste two posts I made on another forum regarding Malinois and pet homes when someone asked about getting a working line Malinois as a pet.
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Can a pet home live happily with a working line Malinois? Yes, as long as they are ACTIVE, either have the experience level to provide the training the dog requires, or are willing to seek that out and commit to it, and it's the right pup from the right litter (lower drive, laid back personality). 

Can the average pet home live happily with a Malinois? No, absolutely not. The first time the pup kicks into drive and grabs their ankle, or chases little Johnny through the yard and bites him they are going to freak out and either get rid of the pup, or stick it out in the backyard keeping it away from the family until it's older, untrained, unsocialized, and basically a destructive freak.

I am one of those working line breeders that now states on my website I won't place pups in pet homes. Is this a hard and fast rule, no. If a pet home comes to me and can prove that they might be a good home for one of my pups, I will still consider a placement, but they are going to jump through some hoops before I'll consider it, and very few pups out of a litter, if any, will be considered for that home. Why, because I'm tired of putting pups into non-Malinois experienced pet homes that sound like they plan to do it all the right way, only to find out later they only took the pup to two training sessions with the trainer because they got busy, quit taking the pup out in public because he'd try to chase joggers or bicyclists while they wanted to chat with friends over a coffee and ignore him, tossed him in the back yard because he "attacked" someone (ie 10 week old Malinois pup hanging off someone's ankle), ignored any and all advice they got from me or other experienced people because past dogs never needed to be trained and grew up well behaved, and at 6 months they are tired of dealing with him and want to return him. Unsocialized, untrained, and with other baggage. I will take back a dog from my breeding at any time, and work to rehab it and then rehome it. But as the breeder why would I risk putting a pup in a pet home, especially one with no Malinois experience, when I could put it in a working or performance home instead, where it can live as a pet, but with an experienced trainer who will routinely give the dog an outlet for it's drive and energy. Heck, even some of the experienced working/performance homes I've put pups in couldn't handle the pups drives or level of desire to bite. And they were pups I considered "medium" from the litter.

I've done a lot of Malinois education over the years, and one thing I don't do anymore is just let people meet the dogs when the dogs are on their best behavior. Way to many people see a well behaved Malinois out in public and think they are born that way, they have no idea how much training went into the dog, and how much exercise (mental and/or physical) the dog gets. Sure you can meet them, 1 or 2 at a time, when they are under control and behaving. But if you come to my house, and you aren't experienced with the breed, I will turn my entire pack loose at once, and usually they have been hanging out in the house or a bedroom sleeping so they are extra amped and ready to go when I do it >. If you can look at the speed and energy 5 or 6 Malinois can create and think "this is awesome, I want one of these" then this might actually be the breed for you. But if you look at it and get overwhelmed and starting thinking "how quickly can I get out of here", time to look for another breed  Most people I do this to, start looking for the polite exit. The few who don't, might actually get a pup at some point.
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_The breeders I have spoken with have been briefed extensively about my situation and pretty much are stating their breed or a certain litter they have is more of an active home pet than competetive/working line dog. _

Actually this is basically what I was trying to say. I don't agree with the focus on producing pets, but it sounds like the breeders you are talking to are being honest. Some breeders will try to say their dogs are capable of living happily in the average pet home, then jumping off the couch and going and winning the world championships. The same dog. Those breeders are trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, trying to convince the pet home they aren't buying a pet, but a world class working dog who will happily live as a pet. Because for some people, they feel "pet" = "inferior" even though for a pet home pet = appropriate. That doesn't mean the world class working dog can't also live as a pet, but it's doing that in a home with a trainer, not the average pet home.

The breeders who are honest will say "this breeding is geared towards active pet homes" and admit that someone looking for a working/competition dog might find 1 pup in the litter but most won't be suitable for them, and none might be suitable. And on the flip side a pet home might find 1 pup in a working/performance oriented litter that is suitable, or 0. But when a breeder is trying to breed for both markets, and isn't clear in their advertising they do so, people assume that if their neighbor/friend/cousin/etc got a great pet from breeder X, and they see on breeder X's website that they breed working dogs and no mention that the litter the friend's pup was actually from was bred more for the pet market, then they think they can go to breeder Y who also advertises working dogs and get a great pet.

_With this in mind do you still feel ANY mal from ANY litter from ANY breeder in ANY pet home is inherently a bad idea and ill advised_?

Yes and No LOL I don't feel "_ANY mal from ANY litter from ANY breeder in ANY pet home is inherently a bad idea and ill advised" _However, I do feel MANY mals from MANY litters from MANY breeders in MANY pet home is inherently a bad idea and ill advised. And I do NOT agree with breeding Malinois litters with the focus being active pet homes. It's a working breed, and should remain as such. Even in the working bred litters there will be the occasional pup who just doesn't have the drive to be a working dog, those pups can be placed in pet homes. But if the breed has to be "bred down" to make it suitable for the average pet home, the average pet home should go get a different breed.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Kadi has the best answer. I've had a number of working bred dogs, but honestly the mali is in another zone. I have to really watch her around grandchildren, and she is really a little over the top for my wife. She is better with my wife since I have had her handle her a bit, if they haven't been made to obey by a particular person, they seem to want to run over them.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> think there is a lot of this going around also, I see lots of dogs described as "extreme" "over the top" etc that IMO are good, solid, average dogs.


I guess that was my main point too. I'm not saying a Malinois should be in a pet home. But I don't think it would be easier to live with my bitch than it would with a Malinois. Maybe it would be. I don't know.

I just got really irritated that people talked up these dogs into crazy beasts and the ones I've spent the night with uncrated in a hotel room aren't any worse than my German Shepherd! But maybe people aren't used to decent working Shepherds...lol

It's kind of funny, the people who told me I'd never be able to handle a Malinois as my first working dog were the people who constantly talk about their dogs as man-eaters, or people that have never owned Malinois. Tells you something, doesn't it?


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

I think that a pet quality mal pup from working lines is still going to need the SAME socialization, active lifestyle, and dog proof environment as a pick working pup. So pet doesn't mean a buyer necessarily gets an easier dog to deal with.


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## ray duong (Feb 10, 2012)

Reason I posted is to see if there are breeders/handlers in my area to see first hand what types of temperaments I would be dealing with first hand. I have been to working clubs before and I know this is not the type of dog I want. All my dogs are trained from day one and socialized to children and different environments and I have never had a problem with any dog. I am a dog lover/person and have grown up around them all my life. Thanks to all with words of encouragement. Even here I did not get my answer answered that was in my first and only original post. "Just want to find owners and breeders in my area to visit dogs,kennels, and talk to people who knows the ins and outs of their dogs." Thank you to Bart and Katie for your words of encouragement.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

So agree with Kadis post. I often hear how laid back my dogs are. If they had any idea how much work it takes to have well mannered mals they would fall over.
They are raised in home, taught manners, and must behave. I own six, and there is no way I could live with that many if they all acted like fools. It takes every so much time training, exercising, and working the dogs for them to be good dogs.
As an example, the last litter, comparing pups, you can obviously tell who stays in a kennel with minimal work, and who is out and worked a ton. Day and night in difference, yet still have the same drives, just not bouncing off the walls.
So yes you can have a mal in a home environment if you put the time into it.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

I think one mistake that a lot of people make with animals in general is giving them tons of attention at first, then gradually showing less and less. We have parrots, and they are especially bad this way. When they are new, you want to give them only an hour or two out, so this is what they come to see as normal. I have always left my mali alone while at work, and she is quiet while we're gone, just leave a bone for her to chew on and she's fine. If you handle them 24/7 when pups, then try this when they are a year old, the results aren't the same, IMO. Mine gets about 20 minutes to run loose in the morning, then an hour of good work in the evening, and she is good to go.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I"m with Annamarie here. There are some malinois that are OK with kids but most tend to be too high energy for a family with a newborn and/or toddlers. Another Rotty might be a better choice?


Thomas,

I reckon this is a matter of how you bring up your dog - any uncontrolled pup / dog can be a danger to infants, kids...


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

_All my dogs are trained from day one and socialized to children and different environments and I have never had a problem with any dog. I am a dog lover/person and have grown up around them all my life._

That was me seven years ago. I got the 'pet quality' pup out of a working litter, thinking I could deal as easily with him as I had with any of the dogs I owned/worked/fostered. He is more work than any dog I've had before. He is a good house dog, and a good dog all around -maybe not special forces, super extreme Malinois, but a decent working dog with lots of drive and desire to work despite being the least desirable pup in the litter. 

He's starting to show some wear and tear soundness issues, but even as he approaches senior dog status, he is as full of energy and enthusiasm as ever. I have the time and energy to put into him - I don't need to balance his needs against those of family and kids, but there are days I envy my friends with their easy going 'normal' pet dogs.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Ray...
you sound disappointed with the responses you got and stated your basic question was not answered ...

then you posted :
"Reason I posted is to see if there are breeders/handlers in my area to see first hand what types of temperaments I would be dealing with first hand. I have been to working clubs before and I know this is not the type of dog I want."
.... so why title the post "malinois" if you don't want one ???

granted, there wasn't a list of breeders/handlers provided, but i feel it's also worth pointing out that just because you are a dog lover and have been around dogs all your life doesn't mean you can train one either 
- a lot of people raise pet dogs that get lucky and never have major issues....notice i said "LUCKY" 
- i work with MANY people with that same mindset who have no idea why their dog is giving them the problems they come to me to try and correct and are only one step away from dumping their "problem dog" 
- the chances of getting lucky with a large, fast, agile, driven dog are much less IMO

- altho i work mostly with pet dogs, most owners don't come to me with training problems of how to get more out of their dogs. they come to me trying to fix behavior problems that developed because they just don't understand dog behavior in general and never learned ANY system of dog training. once they make lifestyle changes and get past that denial, the actual training part becomes VERY easy for them. i try to give them both sides of the approach

i suggest you read ALL of the Ivan link. he makes some VERY good points 
especially about whether a mal is "too much dog" for some people
- it usually isn't 
...... heck, a pomeranian is "too much dog" for some people, and i've dealt with a few of those mini-monsters who were very dangerous around children ... they came to me from people who love dogs and have been around them all their life :-(

lastly i agree 1000% with the statements about how people get the wrong impression when they see a "laid back" dog and have NO idea of what it took to get it that way and keep it that way around new and unfamiliar people !! 
...one reason i never leave home with my "laid back couch potato" without a tug in my pocket //lol//


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

He's starting to show some wear and tear soundness issues, but even as he approaches senior dog status, he is as full of energy and enthusiasm as ever. I have the time and energy to put into him - I don't need to balance his needs against those of family and kids, but there are days I envy my friends with their easy going 'normal' pet dogs

Who wouldn't?

On the other hand, I've had and have more fun with my dogs than those of the "easy going normal pet dogs".

I've had fun training them but worn my brain out how to get it through to them. I've had a pup of 7 weeks climb over a 1,20 m run and the same pup jump from our bedroom window into the garden and run off with no injuries. 

I've had dogs that have lived in peace together, dogs that haven't .

On the other hand, not all pet dogs are easy going - due to the fact that they are all canines!!!


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

"Reason I posted is to see if there are breeders/handlers in my area to see first hand what types of temperaments I would be dealing with first hand. I have been to working clubs before and I know this is not the type of dog I want." ........

"Just want to find owners and breeders in my area to visit dogs,kennels, and talk to people who knows the ins and outs of their dogs." 

I guess I don't understand. If you already know what working dogs are like and you say you don't want one (and you never said that you wanted to do sport), then why do you want to talk to breeders and handlers of working malinois? Is it that you like the malinois and you are trying to make one fit in your home?

This is a WORKING dog forum - French Ring, Mondio Ring, Schutzhund, PSA, SAR, agility, competition obedience, dock diving, herding, hunting, sledding, etc. Show line malinois breeders don't tend to frequent this forum. Remember, you came to a working dog forum and asked for their opinion. Working dog folks are pretty passionate about retaining the original purpose of their breeds.

If you want a mal then find a working line breeder to sell you a pet quality pup. It is a breeders' discretion to sell you a pup, and/or it is your right to walk away. 

You can also find a show line breeder - I already directed you to one here in Houston, TX. If she doesn't have a litter, then she can refer you to another breeder. Also, there is not much malinois activity here in Houston, so you are most probably going to have to go out of state. 

The other thing you can do, is to get a rescue malinois. A good person to contact is Tammy McDowell at Tri County K9 Academy in Plantersville. She has a really big heart and does a wonderful job evaluating mals. She can even "clean" one up for you - she and Darryl do board and train. It is shocking the number of trained adults and puppies that come to the Montgomery County shelter from Louisianna.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

_On the other hand, I've had and have more fun with my dogs than those of the "easy going normal pet dogs"._

Me too.

My Mal, and now my Dutchie, too, have opened so many doors and taken me on an awesome journey and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. It's just that on some weekend mornings I think it would be really nice to just wake up quietly and peacefully and lounge around the house all day. There's something wrong with getting up at 6:30 on a Saturday and being happy because I got to sleep in.


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## Lisa Preston (Aug 21, 2008)

Yeah, pretty sure I'm going Mal with the next one. A little lighter in build and a lot lighter in color should mke a real difference in long hours on the trails. No more black backed dogs for me, I think.


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