# Paired (two) e-collars to one transmitter one dog ..



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...64305596951334&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf









I've been seeing this a lot more lately and am somewhat interested in using e-collars as a finishing tool with my young male in French Ring Sport. I'll just be looking for cleaning up outs, focus on me and finishing touches to the object guard. 

So how do you program the e-collar receivers to be on the same frequencies? I understand you can pair Tri-Tronics in the field but Dogtra is a more of a mystery to me. Is there internal dip switches? I've heard that Dogtra can only be done at the factory. 

What are the advantages to pairing 2 e-collars together like this? With the 4 points does it feel like more of a traditional prong collar when the dog is stimmed? I'm really not looking for double the power but more consistency in physical feel at a lower setting.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

"advantages" i have heard have all been from internet sites trying to sell them or NONpro trainers, so take it with a grain of salt :

1. to distribute the bricks on both side and stay in place better while possibly needing less pressure to make contact
2. to place one on either side so that the dog doesn't start favoring the side of the neck the shock comes from and react and/or move in a non-desirable direction as a reaction to where on the neck the stim hits

with a dog that has already used an Ecollar and responds well, i can't see how doubling the bricks would make usage any more effective or advantageous 
.... and with one that never wore one, the same conditioning preps would apply for either a single or double brick imo

as far as more approximating the feel of a prong ... that sounds like a mixture of cesar milan's finger bite philosophy paired with that newer type sprenger that uses prongs that are more "teeth like" compared to spikes 

but i can't see how an electrical charge would ever feel similar to prong pressure applied by tension on the lead

- but your Q did make me curious.... there was a big diff to me when i tried both on my neck, but i'm not a dog //lol//
--- fwiw, i liked the Ecollar better


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## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

Dogtra can be a double by getting another collar with the same serial number. Leerburg does/did sell a double setup.

TriT can be programmed easily to pair them...you can always pair up a friend's collar and "try before you buy" to make sure it works for your situation.

My personal experience has been that the Dogtra (single and double configuration) seems to have a stim that is less effective/different sensation that does not work as well as a double TriT, which seems to have a "trapping" effect when utilized, if that makes sense. Outing and control was much more predictable and tractable, and seemed to be more calmly applied, rather than "loading" him even more...if that makes sense.


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

I find the double block seems more consistent, occasionally a single will not work, I guess hair in the way or something, it also sits better on the dog's neck, I guess the weight is evenly distributed.

So all completely anecdotal, but I have 2 blocks on all my collars now


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Hey Geoff, the 2 collars just gives u more coverage. Some dogs have learned to turn their heads to avoid the stim. This way they can't.


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

What about using two throw chains instead? Lol;-)


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Two throw chains will work as long as you're capable of throwing them with equal speed and accuracy from your left and right hands? ;-)


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Like I keep telling you guys TRI-TRONICS 
User programmable, even, consistent stimulation and made in the USA. ON a Hawx stretch e-strap ;-)


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Like I keep telling you guys TRI-TRONICS
> User programmable, even, consistent stimulation and made in the USA. ON a Hawx stretch e-strap ;-)


totally true.. love my 500.


though I did just purchase an actual Hawx e-collar and I'm excited to see how it compares to my Tritronics..


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks Rick, Tim and Louise you are confirming my suspicions on what to expect and how I'd approach it i.e collar conditioning etc. I do think the big thing is the balance and placement of the collar as well as the area stimmed. As using one block to me if it is on the right or left side the dog would try to move away from the stim. Having the 2 blocks in that way would be more of a general stimulation so maybe not working like a prong or other corrective collar in use, the general operation and application would seem like (to me) more of traditional collar in that it covers more surface area like a choke, martingale or prong. 

As well I'm not interested in hitting the dog with twice the power. My experience so far is, that is what some have used it for. Seeing the dog 'out' off the decoy screaming and squealing to me is not a good picture for a dog to learn in. I prefer to train differently and get into the dogs head without having to resort to the extreme. Even if it takes more time, I've got the time I don't care. As I've found that (extreme) coupled with being in a rush with any training collar, never translates to no collar. 

It is a touchy thing for me to not get the dog collar wise and trial wise. Having a traditional leash and fur savor collar with light use of a prong and $5 throw chains, with clicker and reward has worked well so far. But we want to get the next level of control with him. 

He is biddable to me in OB but can push the envelope with me from time to time especially if I am off physically. He can show little respect for new decoys especially ones where he hasn't worked on before in trials. Hence his slow to outs are getting longer and longer in the three trials he has competed in. 

My ultimate goal is to have no collar and have the same results. One of my first training mentors said this to me when I first started out. "It is not the collar that trains the dog. It is your guidance as a handler in training, that trains the dog"


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Britney Pelletier said:


> totally true.. love my 500.
> 
> 
> though I did just purchase an actual Hawx e-collar and I'm excited to see how it compares to my Tritronics..


I'd be interested in hearing how you like (or don't) the Hawx e-collar. Do you know who makes them or where?
I have a friend who just got one of the Einstein 
E-collars. I'm waiting for his report.


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

Britney Pelletier said:


> totally true.. love my 500.


I am a tritronics gal too, on my 4th 500 now!

The only other one I tried was the Innotek that Bart had in 2006, but it was so inconsistent I thought the dog I was training was schizophrenic until I put the tritronics on her and got the responses I was expecting...


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Two throw chains will work as long as you're capable of throwing them with equal speed and accuracy from your left and right hands? ;-)


Or you just use multiple throw chains .. rapid fire from the hip. Then when you are out of that ammo you use the judge's horn and your shoe, then if that doesn't work touch your dog across the arse with the end of a ball on a rope! LOL! 

Seriously the amount of control off leash/collar I want from my dog is very high. So it won't be one training tool that will help me achieve that goal, I realize that. This is why I am thinking of a e-collar but it won't be what I use to teach the dog at first until I can get some experience with it, more of the proofing. I also want to do it right the first time. I tried vitamin E with my older dog and my own inexperience with it and well as not having the proper equipment for that individual dog doomed it from the start. So I don't want to make the same mistakes. 

A few of you have talked about the Tritronics 500. I've heard 'hype' that model 'TT Pro 500' has the most power. But am a bit confused as the amperage for the stim comes from the receiver so wouldn't any of the G3 receivers with any of the 'Field, Sport, or Pro' models have the same amount of power available on tap ultimately?


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Geoff, if you haven't been using an e-collar why jump to this double collar system? Do you not think you may be able to get the results you're looking for with just one?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> Or you just use multiple throw chains .. rapid fire from the hip. Then when you are out of that ammo you use the judge's horn and your shoe, then if that doesn't work touch your dog across the arse with the end of a ball on a rope! LOL!



As a last resort you have what Dean Calderon called "the GermanShock Collar" at a seminar I attended. You grab the dog by the scruff with your bare hands ;-)

As far as the Tri-tronics 500? I think they're talking about the Pro model. Although I think there was an older model that used the plugs?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> Geoff, if you haven't been using an e-collar why jump to this double collar system? Do you not think you may be able to get the results you're looking for with just one?



Not to answer for Geoff, but if you're concerned with the dog moving away from the stimulation then collars on either side of the neck tends to eliminate that effect


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> Geoff, if you haven't been using an e-collar why jump to this double collar system? Do you not think you may be able to get the results you're looking for with just one?


I probably could get results with one receiver. Having seen some trainers that I really respect use the double receiver with their own dogs. So at one point I would probably end up with a double down the line any ways. So it isn't much extra to get an extra receiver, the benefits mentioned earlier (lower spread out stim not having to have the collar as tight etc) to me out weigh the cost. 




Thomas Barriano said:


> As far as the Tri-tronics 500? I think they're talking about the Pro model. Although I think there was an older model that used the plugs?


Yes they were talking about the 'Pro 500' model but really the receiver is the same for all, it's the G3 and it comes with the Sport, Field and the 'Pro' so really how could it have more power with any of those transmitters. You can only get more power by more amperage or more voltage but with them using all the same receiver it doesn't seem likely. I guess you could get more amperage by turning up the gain. But the voltage is limited by the battery so that can't be adjusted. Maybe it is another urban myth perpetuated by the Jones so they have the illusion that they are keeping up? LOL


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

The reason for the double receiver collar is so the neck band can be adjusted more loosely at the beginning of bite work and there will still be good contact with the neck. As the dog's neck muscles pump during bite training, the collar tightens up but not so much as to interfere with the dog's breathing. With a single receiver, if the collar is tightened enough to begin with sufficient contact, it will have to be loosened repeatedly during training as the neck muscles pump up.

I'm not so sure you can easily double or halve the stim level with a double receiver versus single. I think you would tune your level in based on the dog's reaction rather than trying to do conversion math.

I have explained the reasoning, but it doesn't mean I think it is particularly good. It does sell more receivers. It's also a sort of confession that the receivers are not everything they should be. In my opinion, they leave quite a bit to be desired.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Bart,

An stretch strap (either the original Bumper Boy rubber piece or the newer Hawx) eliminates the problem of compensating tightness for swelling muscles. The main reason most people I know who use two collars at the same frequency is so the dog doesn't move away from the stim.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

You can move the contact points on a one receiver unit. Frankenstein the collar ...Term Helmut Raiser showed some club members in the early 90s when he came for a seminar. 

It entails moving the original contact point with a ring terminal and inter-weave the wire through the strap and adding a acorn nut where the original contact points were at or if you want you add another contact point to the neck. You have four contact points now instead of two. All the hardware is basic car audio installation items. The bigger the wire the bigger the current.

Did this way to my old 1200 Dogtra. My AB at the time had a 28 in neck and the standard straps barely fit on him. Originally had to buy two collars straps and cut one in half and connect them a zip tie to make one collar for an ecollar.

The only drawback doing this it voids all warranty and drains your collar battery quicker. Also it is a lot hotter and for example if you normally have your remote setting on 30 while working your dog cut the setting in half.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"Seriously the amount of control off leash/collar I want from my dog is very high. So it won't be one training tool that will help me achieve that goal, I realize that".

It's not the tool or the number of tools that trains the dog! :wink:


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Yes Bob it is the guidance from the handler and team that ultimately trains the dog not any tool. It's the tool behind the tools! LOL!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Mario Fernandez said:


> You can move the contact points on a one receiver unit. Frankenstein the collar ...Term Helmut Raiser showed some club members in the early 90s when he came for a seminar.
> 
> It entails moving the original contact point with a ring terminal and inter-weave the wire through the strap and adding a acorn nut where the original contact points were at or if you want you add another contact point to the neck. You have four contact points now instead of two. All the hardware is basic car audio installation items. The bigger the wire the bigger the current.
> 
> ...


Yeah that trick is really old. Here is my e-collar from the early 80's with that set up.


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## Taryna Mitchell (May 13, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Bart,
> 
> An stretch strap (either the original Bumper Boy rubber piece or the newer Hawx) eliminates the problem of compensating tightness for swelling muscles.


Are stretch straps available for any type of collar? I have a dogtra IQ and bulldog that's not the best breather. If the stretch straps are generic, do you know where I can find one? Thanks.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Taryna Mitchell said:


> Are stretch straps available for any type of collar? I have a dogtra IQ and bulldog that's not the best breather. If the stretch straps are generic, do you know where I can find one? Thanks.



http://hawxdoggun.com/tech-stretch.php


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

http://store.bumperboy.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BB-SS


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Taryna Mitchell said:


> Are stretch straps available for any type of collar? I have a dogtra IQ and bulldog that's not the best breather. If the stretch straps are generic, do you know where I can find one? Thanks.


Hi Tanya

Looks like Geoff and Julie already gave you the pointers to the Bumperboy and Hawx sites. Just an additional FYI Bumper Boy
sells/markets the Hawx under license (I think) and are much better IMO as far as customer service?


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Taryna Mitchell said:


> Are stretch straps available for any type of collar? I have a dogtra IQ and bulldog that's not the best breather. If the stretch straps are generic, do you know where I can find one? Thanks.


I got the Hawx collars through Elitek9. No problem using them on the bulldogs but you may need to have it a notch or two looser than they recommend.


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## Taryna Mitchell (May 13, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I think it will help a lot and give me one less thing to worry about!!


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## hillel schwartzman (Nov 9, 2008)

Hi I am currently working with Tom and Gary of Hawx...I have been using their collar and bluetooth unit for 5mnth now...Great new things and uses are being developed...They are good people and a great collar maker..There system will be able to do this in there next run of production..It's endless..2 gun dog buttons will be able to get you 4 stim levels at a press of a button..\\/\\/


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I'd be interested in hearing how you like (or don't) the Hawx e-collar. Do you know who makes them or where?
> I have a friend who just got one of the Einstein
> E-collars. I'm waiting for his report.


I will definitely let you know how I like it! ( or don't, lol).. 


Someone had sent me a link for the Einstein collars awhile ago and they looked interesting, but the biggest turn off for me was that super awkward looking remote!


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