# RECALL most important of all !!



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Edwards recent unfortunate event with his boy being killed by a car while chasing a squirrel. Doesnt have to be all negative. Its a great opportunity to discuss recall. For the record I lost a dog in a similiar way. It's what made me be so hard headed about recall and why I spend a lot of time teaching it. 

THE most important excercise in dog training is also the most fundamental. RECALL. I have seen some really nice dogs who could do all the fun and flashy stuff (attention heeling, jumps, stick attacks etc.) but when the feeling struck didn't have a problem giving the finger to the handler calling them back. In fact I have one out here now who fits that description (bastiid he is but that's another story lol). Sounds simple but we all know its not!

My point? What is your method for teaching the dog to come to you every time regardless of distraction. We all know that every dog is different! But share some of the ways you teach a dog to come to you EVERY time.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

It's the only excercise i learn as pup....


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I have asked myself many times why my dog didn't recall. I wonder if because I seen the car coming out of the corner of my eye, that my command was full of panic, thus different to the dog. I don't know just a thought. ](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Edward Egan said:


> I have asked myself many times why my dog didn't recall. I wonder if because I seen the car coming out of the corner of my eye, that my command was full of panic, thus different to the dog. I don't know just a thought. ](*,)](*,)](*,)


Edward the dogs that ride with me frequently ... Rocco, Nika, Gypsy. All have been conditioned to STOP on command no matter the distraction. But that doesn't make them immune to accidents. It does put the percentages in our favor a little. 

Im certainly not picking on you. But it is a teachable moment for a lot of us to learn from.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

My dogs recall can go out the window when he sees a ground hog. Fortunately our off lead hog run ins have been in the woods…. So far? And your right the threads do get us thinking about how we can be doing things different in day to day life. Most of it comes down to that dam laziness stuff being the cause of bad issues.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Brian Anderson said:


> Edward the dogs that ride with me frequently ... Rocco, Nika, Gypsy. All have been conditioned to STOP on command no matter the distraction. But that doesn't make them immune to accidents. It does put the percentages in our favor a little.
> 
> Im certainly not picking on you. But it is a teachable moment for a lot of us to learn from.


Like you said Brian its trained, but accidents still happen, anybody that can sit hear and say my dog will never ever brake a stay or recall is absolutely full of shit, just like humans they have temptations that lead them into trouble. As owners the only thing we can do is train, train,train. Even better though is to control them coming and going and use a leash. Its not the dogs fault its our faults for being laxed. I have for sometime now let the dogs go from the garage to the back of the car into there area, but I now have learned from other peoples heartships. I know of two very good dogs this past month alone that have passed on do to cars. Sad but like you said a learner experience for all involve unfortunately. 

Oh yea sorry to hear about your dog Edward.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Shit happens. I've never had one of my dogs run over by anyone but myself because they are contained at all times unless we are hunting and that is away from roads. While hunting, we ran over Hunter once and hit another hard enough to roll em down the road. Then, on the other hand. lots have been snake bit and busted up seriously or killed while hunting. If you can't let the dog have a life doing what they do and accept the fact you can't protect them 24 hour a day, you shouldn't have dogs. It always bothers you when something happens to a good dog. Bothers you more when you are the reason it happened and you "could" have prevented it. Teach them solid recall and everything else, but, they are dogs and will find a way. People are supposed to be smarter and get hit all the time riding their bicycles in the road.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> My dogs recall can go out the window when he sees a ground hog. Fortunately our off lead hog run ins have been in the woods…. So far? And your right the threads do get us thinking about how we can be doing things different in day to day life. Most of it comes down to that dam laziness stuff being the cause of bad issues.


Chris I agree 100% ... I am guilty big time of it myself. I liken it to guitar playing (which I play). Everyone who can play wants to sit down and play what they can play really well and avoid the stuff that is problematic. We always go back to what is most comfortable and the path of least resistance. In my case I don't have a club to train with so there is nobody to say "hey dude you need to work on ______". So I find myself slipping off into lazy land and doing what the dog does best over and over instead of teaching and learning new things. But I do have a wife that will say things like "Brian that dogs recall is pathetic and its going to get him killed" LOL.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

The recall on our dogs is perfect. Unless of course it is during a certification trial or someone is watching. 

DFrost


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Like Selena, we teach a recall very early. It's one of the first exercises a pup gets to learn.
But even then, accidents can always happen and that's why our dogs always wear their ecollar when out of their kennels. They have a perfect recall, but temptation can be very big sometimes so it's safer to have an emergency button when you need it.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

David Frost said:


> The recall on our dogs is perfect. Unless of course it is during a certification trial or someone is watching.
> 
> DFrost


mine as well!! glad i have the entire TSP K9 to back me up :razz:


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Martine Loots said:


> Like Selena, we teach a recall very early. It's one of the first exercises a pup gets to learn.
> But even then, accidents can always happen and that's why our dogs always wear their ecollar when out of their kennels. They have a perfect recall, but temptation can be very big sometimes so it's safer to have an emergency button when you need it.


Martine I have seen some of your foundation work (via your videos) and its excellent. I have no doubt that your dogs have strong recall. I really like your style.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

it's a no brainer for anyone on this forum to know how important a recall is, and i'm sure everyone on this forum also knows it's one of the first things a dog needs to know...
so i'm also sure everyone here teaches it and proofs it, and then moves on to bigger and better things
- but i doubt many people reading this proof it on a regular basis, which means, under the worst case scenarios, since any good dog will recall 95% of the time even with major distractions
- so when was the last time you actually set up the dog under a real life scenario to test your dog(s) ? 
....... i'm guilty 
yeah.....
1. it's hard to do safely
2. it's a pita to set it up
,,,but it can be done and because of this thread, i just added it to my new years stuff that i WILL do b4 the end of January

this thread has also gotten me to wonder how well proofed my stop command is, since i can now see how in many situations it would be better than wanting my dog to put on his blinders and haul ass back to me

i will report how i did both and would be very interested to hear any others who have come up with a new way to proof either one of these


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

One of mine can fit under the gate in the yard. He had been trained and (I thought) well proofed on gate behavior (no going through open gate w/o me, always waiting at gate for me, never going under, period). I learned otherwise when one of his favorite people went out through the gate and he followed her under it. Into the street.

That was two years ago (or so). Now recall work is regular. Every way I can think of, every opportunity that presents itself, I use it. If I have any doubt at all, the dog is on a long line. But it's not my purpose to reel them in a lot .... the long line for me is strictly insurance.

This is a good thread. JMO. I was lucky to learn the lesson without losing my dog. Pure luck.


ETA
I would like to read about people's recall-proofing scenarios.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

rick smith said:


> it's a no brainer for anyone on this forum to know how important a recall is, and i'm sure everyone on this forum also knows it's one of the first things a dog needs to know...
> so i'm also sure everyone here teaches it and proofs it, and then moves on to bigger and better things
> - but i doubt many people reading this proof it on a regular basis, which means, under the worst case scenarios, since any good dog will recall 95% of the time even with major distractions
> - so when was the last time you actually set up the dog under a real life scenario to test your dog(s) ?
> ...


Rick a lot of the posts I make are actually intended to help new people and there are quite a few here (I think). I am not a pro myself I dont make a living training dogs. 

But I do a lot of scenario training and just yesterday had a DS bitch on a long line proofing her on passing cars and trucks. She had a brain fart about a week ago and for whatever reason (had never done it in the past) bolted and actually ran beside a truck going down the road. *I got her shut down* but it could have been to late given different circumstances. Scared me and reminded me that my level of control was NOT near where it needed to be. It wasn't hard to fix because she is a really handler friendly type dog and learns quickly. She just needed to understand "DO NOT CHASE CARS". 

Your right... the ability to shut them down is as if not more important than the recall.


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

I'm mean and we practice recalls in squirrel-infested areas. I let her hunt her squirrels for a bit with a 30' clothesline tied to her flat collar. I give her enough time to forget and once she takes off after squirrel #2 or #3 she's recalled. If she doesn't stop on dime and turn back she gets reeled in and a good game of tug with whatever I have handy when she arrives. She gets freed to hunt and we'll do it again until she's spinning and racing back. She's really soft so I'm reluctant to e-collar proof her like I did with my assy little terrier. 

She hates most other dogs so I'll also proof her in the training yard of the dog park. She gets hooked to a lunge-line on her fursaver since there's nothing to get wrapped on and free her. She has a fit when someone starts trying to fence run with her, I recall (was initially ignored) and she gets corrected and reeled in. Happy happy games and re-released. If I have my neighbor's doofy lab who is basically furry pudding I'll play with him in the yard and do the same thing as with the fence running. She goes to snap at his heels, recall-correction-happy fun times etc. 

She recalls like a freight train so something is working at least.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

The recall is one of the most important exercises I teach my dogs because I take them to work with me and they must know it. I start teaching it the minute one comes home with me. I have had to depend on that recall several times to keep a dog safe. I have noticed that tone of voice can mean everything in that recall. In trials and working the exercise at home in practice my voice has an inviting tone even if it is a command I expect to be followed. At work I have had to use a tone that says "I mean it and I mean it now" to get their attention away from their desire and on me and the task I have asked for. If Mr Egan saw the impending danger and his voice tone sounded strange to the dog, the dog could easily have not responded to it as not "his" owners. I am sure a lot of us have seen this at trials when a nervous voice squeeks out a "come" and the dog just sits there and looks at his owner like who said that? His tone could have even incited the dog to more excitement of the run. A lot of "ifs". So teaching the recall is important and your dogs should also know that tone in your voice that portrays the authority that they MUST obey and obey it now.
I have herding dogs and work around horses. There have been many times a couple horses will take off running in a pasture and one of my dogs will take notice and start forward. Sometimes I will say their name and "come!" or sometimes I say their name and " NO!" to stop them in their tracks. Horses can be deadly to dogs or dogs can run horses thru fences and so my dogs must listen. They are not allowed offlead until I know I have a dog that will come or stop that forward movement. And if at any time one of them ignores me, I go to them, take them by the scruff and pull them back to the place I asked for the come and I tell them as we go that come means come. I then put them on a long line and we practice it. A good recall is as important as that word that makes them just stop in their tracks-whether it is stay, down, no or whatever. So those two exercises-coming and stopping in their tracks-are important to me.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

There are two sides to all stories. There are a ton of posts regarding A-holes who can’t keep their dog on their property. You got to pick one or the other… or be a hypocrite….. lot of hypocrites out there. Non of them think they are. Get it? Hypocrite and don’t think they are, Get it? its funny right?


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Well I can't really detail how I teach a recall because it's so incorporated into my regular obedience training, but it's something I can say I probably work on most often. You're never done training this because it's a life-long battle of being more reinforcing that the rest of the world. There are a couple things I require of my dogs before they ever go off leash. 

1. Recall...duh.
2. Emergency down. For use in case it's not safe to recall (maybe across road with traffic coming) and also a backup if they decide to not listen to the recall, having multiple commands that the dog will possibly listen to increases the possibility of preventing an accident. 
3. General awareness of me and "never" getting so fixated on distractions that I "disappear". Meaning they won't run ten miles away while I'm screaming my lungs out at them, theoretically.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

vicki dickey said:


> I have noticed that tone of voice can mean everything in that recall.


I learned from Bob Scott to proof for tone of voice.

I think it's one of the fairly high-level proofing challenges, so I don't start it until the recall is very good and well-proofed. 

Then I work up gradually to panic-voice and angry-voice, starting with the dog quite close to me (definitely close enough to see my face clearly) and I do it gradually.

It's hard, IMO. I start with louder command but soft face.

I saw the sense to this immediately, but I had never thought of it on my own.

Even if it never happens in real life, all recall work is good.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Connie says: "Then I work up gradually to panic-voice and angry-voice, starting with the dog quite close to me (definitely close enough to see my face clearly) and I do it gradually."

I have always taught, and still teach today, there are three voices when working a dog;

1. Command Voice

2. Praise Voice

3. Correction Voice

I make new handlers practice them, without their dogs. 

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Connie says: "Then I work up gradually to panic-voice and angry-voice, starting with the dog quite close to me (definitely close enough to see my face clearly) and I do it gradually."
> 
> I have always taught, and still teach today, there are three voices when working a dog;
> 
> ...



Michael Ellis goes into this (voices) in detail on his newest DVD.

But I still proof the recall for that time when I might lose it and use a panic-voice instead of command voice.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

In addition to above voice proofing mentioned above I have alwasy started recall exercises as soon as I get a new pup. Before 12-14 wks old a pup is very much tied to it's littermates. When I become that sole source of company/companionship/pack/ whatever I take the pups for a lot of simple walks in the woods. They get distracted and I step behind a tree. Pup relizes it's source of pack is gone and starts looking. I step out and clap my hands and act like I see my long lost buddy. Pup comes running and I reward. 
In 50+ rs of training I've never had a weak or unreliable recall in any dog I raised and at the very most a tossed leash, car keys, etc took their mind off any distractions at that young age. 
Get it in their heads when they are first open to learning and it's like pavlov's bell. They hear your voice and the response becomes a part of their makeup.
This was always a part of my training. Even when I was into heavy correction training it was a part of their early learning. Make them want to come to you because it's the best, most enjoyable place in the world.
This method becomes harder after that 12-14 week old period simply because the pup has more desire to wander form it's "pack" but it's still a matter of imprinting behavior. 
For me this develops quickly into a simple "here" command. "Here" for me is nothing more then a get over here with me. It doesn't require any formal or fancy front or even get right up to me. Just get with me. All the formal stuff (and stronger distractions)can be added later.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

I think there's a bit more to having a solid recall then just doing recall drills. The dog needs to view his handler as the most rewarding thing in the world, the source of all joy and the keeper of all joy, better then any and all distraction it might face that would make him think twice about recalling immediately. It takes time to build that value and there are tons of different ways to do it. What you do might also depend on the type of dog you have. 

I do a lot of recalls with my pups, if I don't to any thing, that's the one thing I always do every day every where. It's so simple especially when they're pups. Keep their food in your pocket (kibble makes that easier) and through out the day call the pup's name, run in an opposite direction, and feed and throw a party when they get you. I like to make the pups have to put some effort into this to install a sense of urgency and condition the OMG I must drop every thing I'm doing and run full speed before my mom runs away from me. I personally alternate between whistles and the dog's name and I do have a very particular tone of voice I use for this in the beginning which I later begin to alternate. 

I will set up sessions where I recall them off their meal, off playing with other dogs, off smelling and investigating, gradually adding distractions. At the same time I do games where they learn they can get what they want as long as they listen to me first. I will then introduce those to the recalls, so the pattern is established that regardless of the distraction, they come to me, get rewarded, and then possibly still get to go and check out the distraction. That eliminates that competition/conflict and builds more value for me and not a generalized distraction. They never go any where off leash if I have the slightest shadow of doubt that they will get a chance to rehearse not listening. And I always reward for recalls, no matter how many times we have done them or how well I think they know them. You can never build in enough value for a recall. 

I also never ever call them to me if I plan to punish them in any way (and what matters here is what the dog considers to be punishment or some thing unpleasant). Accomplishing a solid reliable recall is really a life style, not an obedience exercise in my books. A lot of the stuff I do is based on Susan Garrett's 5 minute Formula to a Brilliant Recall games.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Martine Loots said:


> Like Selena, we teach a recall very early. It's one of the first exercises a pup gets to learn.
> But even then, accidents can always happen and that's why our dogs always wear their ecollar when out of their kennels. They have a perfect recall, but temptation can be very big sometimes so it's safer to have an emergency button when you need it.


Exactly what we do. It's the only way I've found to never allow the dogs to say no to their recall.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> I think there's a bit more to having a solid recall then just doing recall drills. The dog needs to view his handler as the most rewarding thing in the world, the source of all joy and the keeper of all joy, better then any and all distraction it might face that would make him think twice about recalling immediately. .... Accomplishing a solid reliable recall is really a life style, not an obedience exercise in my books.


Absolutely. 

And proofing it (within the outline you describe) is what I meant.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Well I can't really detail how I teach a recall because it's so incorporated into my regular obedience training, but it's something I can say I probably work on most often. You're never done training this because it's a life-long battle of being more reinforcing that the rest of the world. There are a couple things I require of my dogs before they ever go off leash.
> 
> 1. Recall...duh.
> 2. Emergency down. For use in case it's not safe to recall (maybe across road with traffic coming) and also a backup if they decide to not listen to the recall, having multiple commands that the dog will possibly listen to increases the possibility of preventing an accident.
> 3. General awareness of me and "never" getting so fixated on distractions that I "disappear". Meaning they won't run ten miles away while I'm screaming my lungs out at them, theoretically.


I agree with Jackies # 2 more than the recall. With the down, they don't have to turn around and come back, they can be on the other side of the street, they can be heading for the street or after someone. Works for every situation except if they are in th street. A firm no also works in many situations....simply tells the dog to stop whatever he is doing.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> I think there's a bit more to having a solid recall then just doing recall drills. The dog needs to view his handler as the most rewarding thing in the world, the source of all joy and the keeper of all joy, better then any and all distraction it might face that would make him think twice about recalling immediately. It takes time to build that value and there are tons of different ways to do it. What you do might also depend on the type of dog you have.
> 
> I do a lot of recalls with my pups, if I don't to any thing, that's the one thing I always do every day every where. It's so simple especially when they're pups. Keep their food in your pocket (kibble makes that easier) and through out the day call the pup's name, run in an opposite direction, and feed and throw a party when they get you. I like to make the pups have to put some effort into this to install a sense of urgency and condition the OMG I must drop every thing I'm doing and run full speed before my mom runs away from me. I personally alternate between whistles and the dog's name and I do have a very particular tone of voice I use for this in the beginning which I later begin to alternate.
> 
> ...



Top to bottom an excellent post Marta!


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

I've long been an advocate that all dogs need two bombproof commands, a recall and a stationary command such as a sit or a down. "Bombproof" means that the dog will obey the command no matter how far he is from the handler and no matter what distraction is present. I teach those behaviors with the Ecollar virtually the same way, no matter what the dog's level of training. This teaches the dog what the stim means and that he's in charge of when it starts and when it stops. For a dog that likes to chase game I use my crittering protocol to stop it. 

I also advocate that a dog wear an Ecollar anytime he's out of a contained area. Any dog can make the wrong decision and disobey a command that's taking him towards danger. The Ecollar gives you another chance to get the command across.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

My Briard wanted to attack the horses we had to pass on our walks. I truly thought I had proofed him. Years passed and the dog ignored the horses. I think the dog was about 12 yrs old and I stopped to chat to the horses' owner. The chat carried on longer than usual and out of the corner of my eye I saw the Briard, that I had downed, slowly creep forward.

Nothing's perfect!!


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Marta thanks for the very thoughtful post. You have given me some ideas! I haven't seen the Susan Garrett method but I will check it out too.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Brian Anderson said:


> Marta thanks for the very thoughtful post. You have given me some ideas! I haven't seen the Susan Garrett method but I will check it out too.


You might want to add this (which I suspect Marta probably does as well, after reading her excellent suggestions  ): 
I use the recall whenever a good thing for the dog comes up in the regular course of the day. There are lots of opportunities (once I started consciously looking for them) to connect the recall with _"Yay! Did I hear my name!?"_ :grin:

There's nothing like seeing the dog's head pop up from whatever he was sniffing or doing and swivel towards you and the dog come flying.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

This is one thing Koehler did right - Ya, I said it.

The Koehler recall, taught AWAY from any other OB work, is pretty damn solid.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Someone else mentioned it, excuse me for not crediting them with it. I also think it's very important to train an emergency stop. I agree a recall is important. It's a critical item with patrol dogs. In SAR, or at least the programs I've worked with, we also had to have the stop. 

DFrost


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Here's just a thought... it may not be practical in all situations... but what about carrying a whistle with you when the dog is outside? For those of us who train with a whistle recall, the whistle is going to sound the same regardless of how much you are blowing into it. I'm going to heed my own advice and carry a whistle with me when I take them for a run going forward. 

There may be situations (i.e. when letting your dog out to pee/poop) when you do not have a whistle and frankly it is not practical to carry a whistle at all times, but there will be others when you will. For example, whenever we take the dogs to the forest, I have them on e-collars as well as both my wife and I have whistles on our neck. Both our guys are whistle trained, and we make it into a game when we are out and about carrying tugs in our training vests just to really hammer in the recall.

This situation is an absolute nightmare, I lost a dog 2 years ago because of a recall issue I didn't even realize existed. Our 10 month pup's recall still isn't perfect when he's interested in a specific tree across the street. But then again, because their toilet is in the park across the street, it should be me who takes them out on a leash.

Sorry for your loss Ed.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Michael Ellis goes into this (voices) in detail on his newest DVD.
> 
> But I still proof the recall for that time when I might lose it and use a panic-voice instead of command voice.


Strangely enough Connie, My panic-voice has many a time stopped my dog. Maybe it's the "now or never" inflection in my voice??


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Strangely enough Connie, My panic-voice has many a time stopped my dog. *Maybe it's the "now or never" inflection in my voice*??


Maybe so! :lol:


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Teaching a solid recall has always been top of the list for me. I have the luxury of living out in the boonies, on property, no fences, and TONS of wildlife that congergate. Rabbits, quail, coyotes, bobcats, deer, ect. all great tools to use for a solid recall...and its daily, multiple times a day. I use long lines, treats and tugs, always making myself more fun and interesting then anything else in their life at that moment. I can let my dogs out in the morning, watch them tear off after the rabbits that are always out there, recall them, and they all immediately put the brakes on and come back to me with the same excitement chasing the rabbits.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Well I can't really detail how I teach a recall because it's so incorporated into my regular obedience training, but it's something I can say I probably work on most often. You're never done training this because it's a life-long battle of being more reinforcing that the rest of the world. There are a couple things I require of my dogs before they ever go off leash.
> 
> 1. Recall...duh.
> 2. Emergency down. For use in case it's not safe to recall (maybe across road with traffic coming) and also a backup if they decide to not listen to the recall, having multiple commands that the dog will possibly listen to increases the possibility of preventing an accident.
> 3. General awareness of me and "never" getting so fixated on distractions that I "disappear". Meaning they won't run ten miles away while I'm screaming my lungs out at them, theoretically.


Going to have to agree the platz is just as if not more important than a recall from distance.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Keith Jenkins said:


> Going to have to agree the platz is just as if not more important than a recall from distance.


I agree for sure with that Keith. The ability to shut the dog down and hold position is paramount.


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