# Breeding Rats Vs. Breeding Dogs



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I bred rats for years, They were ALL feeders, I am not sure what the hell a "cull" rat is.

Here is how it goes for the uninformed.

Put male and female 2 month old rats in a cage.
Feed and water them.
She has a litter within a month usually, and goes back into heat the next day or so, having the next litter 3-4 weeks after the first.
By the time she is having her third litter 3-4 weeks after that, the first females born are pregnant.
It is very easy to turn 2 rats into over 100 in about 4 months, with almost NO EFFORT.
I have found rats are just as good for the snake, even if they are bred young.


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

:-k what exactly is this about - Breeding raw dog treats?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Anne Pridemore said:


> :-k what exactly is this about - Breeding raw dog treats?


Somebody talked about their experience breeding rats, while trying to give guidance to a successful, established working dog breeder in another thread. Using the rat breeding as part of a resume' or something..

was just explaining how involved and complicated rat breeding can be.


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> I have found rats are just as good for the snake, even if they are bred young.


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> Somebody talked about their experience breeding rats, while trying to give guidance to a successful, established working dog breeder in another thread. Using the rat breeding as part of a resume' or something..


 
 wow... 

Amuseing insite on how difficult it is to breed and raise rats as food. Clearly all the same fine detail is applied to the breeding of sound working dogs. :roll:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It makes sense if you have read the threads involving comparing breeding rats to working dogs.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Sounds vaguely familiar to me....that rat breeding resume I mean. I think what tends to give it credence to some is that the study of breeding dogs is based on watching mice. Takes to long to breed dogs. Saves a lot of time you know.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Just saw this thread. I should of put my last post here regarding breeding rats, rabbits, dogs, cats..


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

When I saw this thread I had no idea the rat resume was on again. I thought Joby was referring to one of the other times it was used as proof knows what she is talking about. Had no idea it was a new post once again. Now I see reference to her dogs attacking each other. Niw that is real life experience but she never mentions things like that where she has first hand knowledge. What the heck people, we were all young once and thought we knew it all. LOL Besides, what gets in the most trouble is no anything to do with stuff she has learned in school. It is her unrealistic idea of ethics and that hers should be the standard for everyone. Raising dogs in those huge yard with trees and creeks being one that comes to mind. Dogs are supposed to be confined to pens or in the house I guess. She would be far better off not mixing her ethics with science or real life because they are not even remotely connected. 
As said, " I am just trying to give some good guidance to a forum member". I just don't think she has to continually set herself up like this. Even I am starting to feel sorry for her.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Can you imagine how cool *mod edit* could be if we shape her correctly ??


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Talk about breeding rats all you want. Just don't bring people not involved with the thread. 

DFrost


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## Ashley Hiebing (Apr 6, 2008)

Breeding feeders and breeding pet rats are actually two entirely different things. Believe it or not, there are actually rat shows like we have dog shows. Serious pet rat breeders take their pedigrees and breedings VERY seriously, because rats are so prone to genetic diseases and live such short life spans as is.

It's definitely a... different kind of thing, but interesting to look at. I have no idea if the person you're discussing in particular is that involved, but if she is, it's far different than just throwing rats together to make feeders.

Here is the main registry: http://www.ratregistry.org/

Here is a breeder that actively shows her rats: http://www.dazzlemerats.com/


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## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

I wonder if I can go down to the waterfront and get me some rats and register them. Would I get more money for papered feeder rats.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Ashley Hiebing said:


> Breeding feeders and breeding pet rats are actually two entirely different things. Believe it or not, there are actually rat shows like we have dog shows. Serious pet rat breeders take their pedigrees and breedings VERY seriously, because rats are so prone to genetic diseases and live such short life spans as is.
> 
> It's definitely a... different kind of thing, but interesting to look at. I have no idea if the person you're discussing in particular is that involved, but if she is, it's far different than just throwing rats together to make feeders.
> 
> ...


The breeder I got my last pair of Siamese females from shows them and yeah, there are some REALLY hardcore rat breeders out there. The pet rat fancy got going around the same time as the pet dog fancy did, with people finding interesting color variations in the rats they captured and raised in rat catching competitions for notable terriers. The white ones ended up being particularly trendy for Victorian ladies as pets. And yep, the NARR is probably the biggest pedigreed rat registry out there with an open studbook, with some pedigrees extending many, many generations. What's also pretty cool about the rat breeders is that the good ones are pretty good about reporting health concerns in their lines and what their rats died of.

My rats are bred for health and temperament as pets first, not for snake food. The local pet stores have feeder rats in pretty poor shape, so I do like having a supply that were kindly treated in a spacious cage and given quality food. Kind of like raising your own livestock for your own consumption. I also don't breed them for the color/coat pattern/ear set du jour in the show ring because that frighteningly gets even more trendy than even in dogs, if you can believe it. :-o 

Rats go through their first estrus cycle as early as 4-5 weeks, but of the three biggest health concerns in rats that also have genetic components (mycoplasmosis, mammary tumors, and pituitary tumors), two of the three pop up in middle adulthood. So yeah, you *can* breed them early, but I don't breed my does until they are 6-8 months of old (their fecundity drops after 12 months of age and then are typically retired) and the bucks, as their reproductive potential doesn't significantly diminish, can be bred as much older adults. I don't typically breed my males before 9-12 months as I want to see how they're maturing. I'm especially wary of pituitary tumors, which can make rats into aggressive biters (I had a rescue rat with a pituitary tumor and I still have the scar on the web on my thumb from a bite from her), which is obviously not desirable for good pets. Like in many species, fully mature females (6ish months old) make better moms (better maternal behavior and less likeliness of infanticide) and come out of pregnancy and lactation in much better shape. There was even an article in the journal Nature from my lab in grad school about how the maternal age of mice (and rats, in another study) affects the phenotype of the offspring (Wang and vom Saal 2000). Pretty interesting...

Also, I never said breeding rats=breeding working dogs. But it is part of my experience and knowledge in animal reproduction.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Aren't there enough rats to go around and more ? What do rats do? Why breed even more rats ?

I reckon it should be illegal, hang'em I say hang'em all :-D


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

During grad school (in the Zoology dept) I had a female Hooded rat named Beaker and a male named Flask. If you're a science geek, you'll get it ... "Lab rats". Had a hard time deciding what to call their babies ... Test tube?

I also had a pet rat named Raja who was allowed to roam around the apartment and liked to eat out of the cat food bowl.

Pet rats can be really smart if raised in an interactive environment. I supposed you could be pretty serious about raising them! I never got mine registered. Sold several as pets and some to a pet store as "non snake food".

I did enjoy learning about color inheritance and seeing the different breeding results. Eventually did breed one nearly "perfect" hoodie w/ sharp lines and a perfect hood.

D


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

what good are rats?

having a pet rat can teach you patience, kindness, and pet ownership skills. Taking HUMANE, proper care of a pet rat is almost as much work as taking care of a small dog.

Raja, being a male rat, had a distinctive rat smell. But he didn't mind getting regular baths in the kitchen sink or having his nails clipped. He was a regular garbage disposal and came in handy for getting rid of table scraps. the cat and Raja tolerated each other (Raja was actually dominant over the cat). 

Raja demanded attention and gave it back in return. When he was 4 yrs old he developed a brain tumor that made him walk in circles and he started losing weight. I took him to the vet to have him put to sleep (couldn't bash his brains out! he had been a pet). It was somewhat embarassing to call the vet and say I needed a rat euthanized! but it was the right thing to do.

a few days later I got a card in the mail from the vet, like they send to dog and cat owners, saying "sorry for your loss". I thought that was a bit funny.

D


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

How much do they sell for as 'non snake food' ? I had a snake many years ago, used to buy my live feedstuff from the pet shop.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Aren't there enough rats to go around and more ? What do rats do? Why breed even more rats ?
> 
> I reckon it should be illegal, hang'em I say hang'em all :-D


We can thank rats for much that we know in the biomedical and psychological fields for research. Also indicating on land mines and tuberculosis samples, in the case of their bigger cousin, the Gambian pouched rat.

http://www.herorat.org/

Rats are probably the most dog-like of the commonly kept pets out there. They're way nicer and less flighty than most rabbits, hamsters, and gerbils and less smelly than mice, and smarter than all the pocket pets. I typically sell pups from my litters for $20 for a pair. That's about on par for pet quality rats you can get at Petsmart, though I only sell mine privately. But like always, the "rare" colors/coat textures/ear sets typically fetch higher prices from other breeders. My goals are for great health, longevity, and temperament (I select for outgoing and laidback personalities), so I don't breed for real exotic colors.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> We can thank rats for much that we know in the biomedical and psychological fields for research. Also indicating on land mines and tuberculosis samples, in the case of their bigger cousin, the Gambian pouched rat.



I think it is a great that they do all these things. I know Don wants to donate one of his Airedale's to a SAR home I think a trained rat would be better me thinks. Like imagine all the small holes they can get into on a rubble pile. Plus the endurance of a rat .. I've never seem them get off that wheel it would be perfect for SAR .. but to get the alert, would it be a Squeek alert?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d...s-in-landmine-detection-african-pouched-rats/


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Here's their main site with a FAQ but I honestly don't know how they indicate.

http://apopo.org/faq.php

They can no longer be imported legally into the US because of concerns they'd take over as an invasive species (they are in the Florida Keys causing havok, apparently) and because they can harbor monkeypox.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

They indicate by scratching the soil. Their light weight makes it possible.


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