# Intimidating Handler



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Do you think a "hard" handler on a young dog can intimidate the dog to the point where not only is the dog afraid of its handler but that it also loses its confidence to engage a decoy? 

I'm not talking about a handler that is just outright abusive of his dog. I'm talking about a well-intentioned handler that loves his dog but is so strict and "hard" with the dog that not only does the handler NOT advance the dog, he sets it back. 

Your thoughts? Thanks.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Patrick Murray said:


> Do you think a "hard" handler on a young dog can intimidate the dog to the point where not only is the dog afraid of its handler but that it also loses its confidence to engage a decoy?
> 
> I'm not talking about a handler that is just outright abusive of his dog. I'm talking about a well-intentioned handler that loves his dog but is so strict and "hard" with the dog that not only does the handler NOT advance the dog, he sets it back.
> 
> Your thoughts? Thanks.



Yes. Heavy compulsion during the training of an exercise can create problems (focus problems) during the exercise.

I've pinch-hit (or pinch-handled) so the TD could take the handler out of the mix and see whether grip improved.

Edit: I was talking about adults; didn't notice this was in the puppy section.


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

Absolutely! Strict/hard handling will cause the sensitive young dog to be more concerned with doing what he thinks the handler wants instead of freely engaging the decoy. In the case of the dog who finally gets fed up with being in conflict, the handler might find the dog coming up the leash.

I too am an "Amateur Working Dog Enthusiast" but have seen this type of things with some people and their dogs. Not good.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Some discussion of handler-dog conflict:

http://www.vomyounghaus.com/GRIPS.html

Scroll to paragraph 7.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Without a doubt!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Demanding that a dog respond to social dominance is stupid. Just got to put it out there, stupid.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Demanding that a dog respond to social dominance is stupid. Just got to put it out there, stupid.



yep, yep, yep, what he said.

DFrost


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Absolutely.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Oh- very possible. One of my dogs is very sensitive and I have to watch my body language around her or she shuts down.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'd also add that, IMHO, heavy handed or unfare correction is more the cause of handler aggressive dogs then genetics.
Just because a person has a serious, tough dog doesn't mean it has to be handled in a serious, tough way.


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## Joel Anderson (Apr 16, 2007)

I must admit I have this problem. I am a large and very loud boistrus person and I have to be very careful with body language and voice tone when handling young dogs. It is something I really want to reduce and become a better handler and decoy. It works for and against me in both situations. If I can Soften my image to the dog then I can work softer not so confident young dogs and build them up. The testing and placing pressure on the dog isnt something I have a problem with, but to be a good well rounded handler and decoy one ust be able to change his persona and image with each dog to tailor to thier needs and abilities.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

1 of the reasons why we don´t train with a very young dog. Serious training starts with dogs 8 mo. or older. Before that: play, see things in their own time, potty train and learn 2 things: their name (name= look at me) and Hier (come). First with threat, later ´cause they have to come no matter what.

The hardest iron can break....


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Definitely. I find I have to reign myself in on a regular basis with my pups, I can be way to demanding of them. Plus I tend to have a "toss them in and see if they can swim" type of mentality.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

This is exactly the mistake I see from alot of people, they think that because their dog is from hard lines that the dog should be hard at 6 months old.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I really like the hard at 6 month old pups. Call me crazy, but there just isn't enough of them.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

I was too hard on my dog and, frankly, still am at times. Live and learn I suppose. I'll be better with my next dog.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I'll be better with my next dog.

Not without major effort. You are talking about breaking a conditioned response. Fix it with your old dog now, and let the new one reap the benefits.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Patrick Murray said:


> I was too hard on my dog and, frankly, still am at times. Live and learn I suppose. I'll be better with my next dog.


I think most of us have been there. In particular us "older" folks. 
I ruined (ef his neck up) a really great competition dog 25 + yrs ago. To heavy handed and to demanding on simple day to day control. One of the big reasons I now train totally motivational, and love it, I might add! 
STILL learninig!
I also agree with Jeff that it will take MAJOR efort on your part. My TD still wont let me do ob work with a leash on my dog. To many years of yank and crank to eliminate all the impulse bs.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I really like the hard at 6 month old pups. Call me crazy, but there just isn't enough of them.


Oh I like em too but that doesn't change the fact that most dogs aren't


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Not according to all the fine adds I have been reading lately, why there are entire litters just PERFECT for ps and sport and pp out there.:smile:


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Not according to all the fine adds I have been reading lately, why there are entire litters just PERFECT for ps and sport and pp out there.:smile:


it's true!! just go to ANY website and they'll say their dogs are suitable for EVERYTHING. this amazes me, i don't think i've ever seen a website that DOESN'T make that statement. so there should be a LOT of very talented dogs out there


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Obviously, no one that these people know actually wanted a pup, so for me, the fact that they are advertising smell a lot like fish to me.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Not according to all the fine adds I have been reading lately, why there are entire litters just PERFECT for ps and sport and pp out there.:smile:


You should read it as "in potential perfect", there are a lot of puppies born with potential...but man ruins a lot...
Also a hard dog is a little puppy, and puppies are vunarable (sp?) for a lot of influences. Ruin a puppies character by being harsh and unreasonable demanding is bad for a dog of every line..


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