# How about Tuna?



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Hi Connie, I feed Arkane canned mackeral, as well as some fresh frozen fish, as we have previously discussed. I was cleaning out my cupboards today & discovered about 20 cans of White Tuna packed in Water. They are only about 6 months old. I don't care for tuna & was wondering if I could feed it to my pup?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Hi Connie, I feed Arkane canned mackeral, as well as some fresh frozen fish, as we have previously discussed. I was cleaning out my cupboards today & discovered about 20 cans of White Tuna packed in Water. They are only about 6 months old. I don't care for tuna & was wondering if I could feed it to my pup?


I would use it a little at a time, well-rinsed (because it has no much salt added).


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Maybe I would be better off donating it to shelter. I am taking down a bunch of canned goods that are perfectly fine, but I know I will not be using. Anyway, canned mackeral is so cheap!


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Hello Susan,

How much fish makes up your dog's diet? EG: once/twice a week?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Hi Martin,
Once a week usually. I have a lot of friends that fish, & they know I feed raw stuff, so when they are cleaning out their freezers they bring me what ever they think they won't get around to eating. Sometimes I open a can of Mackeral for him. How about you?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Hi Martin,
> Once a week usually. I have a lot of friends that fish, & they know I feed raw stuff, so when they are cleaning out their freezers they bring me what ever they think they won't get around to eating. Sometimes I open a can of Mackeral for him. How about you?


Me too, either frozen raw or canned or cooked..... I don't do not-frozen raw because I have parasite-phobia. :lol: 

Previously-frozen raw is what I usually have around.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Reminder: No raw Pacific northwest salmonids (salmon, trout, fish that goes into fresh water to spawn) because of salmon poisoning (apparently a problem only to canids).

It's only raw, and only Pacific northwest.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I wouldn't make it a habit of feeding a lot of tuna and other related fish, due to the mercury content.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> I wouldn't make it a habit of feeding a lot of tuna and other related fish, due to the mercury content.


Or eating it ourselves, for that matter.

Wild salmon has much more Omega 3s and much less toxic heavy metals.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Arkane loooooooooooooooooves fishsickles! :lol:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

For humans at least, it all depends on how it is prepared. The pesticides and the heavy metals accumulate in the fat of the animal (which is how most things are bioaccumulated) and so the reason bears eat a lot of salmon and haven't been effected by endocrine disruptors as much is because they apparently strip off the skin and a lot of the fat. So if you are going to make salmon for your own meal, grilling it so the fat runs off is better than pan frying (where it cooks in the contaminants). If you avoid the fat, it's not as bad. Or so says my faculty adviser, one of the leading experts on environmental endocrine disruption.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> For humans at least, it all depends on how it is prepared. The pesticides and the heavy metals accumulate in the fat of the animal (which is how most things are bioaccumulated) and so the reason bears eat a lot of salmon and haven't been effected by endocrine disruptors as much is because they apparently strip off the skin and a lot of the fat. So if you are going to make salmon for your own meal, grilling it so the fat runs off is better than pan frying (where it cooks in the contaminants). If you avoid the fat, it's not as bad. Or so says my faculty adviser, one of the leading experts on environmental endocrine disruption.


That's my interpretation too. That's why fish oil should be distilled -- because otherwise it's where the heavy metals are concentrated.

I think salmon is usually grilled or broiled; I've never seen it fried, but who knows? This is a fryin' country! :lol: But wild salmon is far lower in heavy metals and other contaminants than tuna, shark, and other big high-on-the-chain fish.
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I think I've cooked salmon pan fried a time or two. Not deep fat fried, but just put the fillet in a sauce pan with a bit of olive oil and carefully turn til done. But yes, I mostly broil it (making sure the drippings are caught under the broiler pan) or grill it. I got a fish basket thingy for a wedding gift and I like it! Takes a wee bit longer to cook, but it keeps it intact better.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> For humans at least, it all depends on how it is prepared. The pesticides and the heavy metals accumulate in the fat of the animal (which is how most things are bioaccumulated) and so the reason bears eat a lot of salmon and haven't been effected by endocrine disruptors as much is because they apparently strip off the skin and a lot of the fat.


I watched a documentary a couple years ago on bears and the salmon run. In this it showed the bears stripping off the skin, but it was so they could eat the skin/fat only. Get the most "bang for the buck" in calories vs amount ate. Since fish are so plentiful during the run, they were leaving behind most of the meat and eating only the "best" parts (skin, head and roe in females). In leaner times they eat the entire fish.

I grew up on the Southern Oregon coast, and we ate salmon on a regular basis. Pan fried, poached, baked, grilled, you name it. Yum  Occasionally you heard of a dog (ours or a neighbors) who got salmon poisoning from eating fish along the riverbank, but they usually got over it with a round of antibiotics, and I was always told once they had it, they wouldn't get it again. Not sure if that's true or not.

I feed my dogs salmon on a semi-regular basis. I find it labeled for chowder in the grocery store, usually it's whats left after they have cut the fish into steaks, the parts that they couldn't get large "pretty" steaks from. Most of my dogs love it, a couple aren't interested. But none have had any problems from eating it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

There's no problem I know of with salmon from any other area. But raw salmon from the Pacific northwest has the potential to be deadly to dogs (and wolves, etc.).

Almost all dogs who are infected die unless they're treated pretty fast. You're 100% correct about the antibiotics. The trick is to catch it, know what it is, and tell the vet so the appropriate treatment is used immediately.

I'll dig up a source. If nothing else, I have a canine nutrition book somewhere with salmon poisoning in it.

That's interesting about the bears.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I feed my dogs salmon on a semi-regular basis. ....


Me too. No raw salmon from the Pacific northwest, though. :wink:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ah. Found one.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/salmon.asp


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I watched a documentary a couple years ago on bears and the salmon run. In this it showed the bears stripping off the skin, but it was so they could eat the skin/fat only. Get the most "bang for the buck" in calories vs amount ate. Since fish are so plentiful during the run, they were leaving behind most of the meat and eating only the "best" parts (skin, head and roe in females). In leaner times they eat the entire fish.


Yeah, that's what I had originally thought was that they stripped off the flesh and fat and left most of the rest in preparation for hibernation, but my faculty advisor said that they don't? I am not sure...like I've seen multiple studies on large marine mammals like orca whales and belugas that have a TON of endocrine disrupting chemicals like PCBs and heavy metals in their fat stores because they eat the whole fish, but nothing on grizzly bears that eat salmon almost exclusively before they go into hibernation. Maybe I'll ask him again.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I did a google search on "bear salmon strip skin" and got a number of hits

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bear+salmon+strip+skin

A lot of it isn't scientific papers, but just first hand observations from people that have gone to photograph bears during a salmon run. But they all mention the bears eating the skin. Sometimes along with the rest of the body, other times just the skin.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

And if we want to continue to explore the dining habits of bears, let's do it in the lounge. :wink:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

BUT do not feed raw bear to dogs because they can get trichinosis. How's that for bringing it back to the topic of feeding raw to dogs?


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Many people here in Alaska feed their dogs raw fish.

The link below is very correct, and there is a method used to kill the microorganisms. Freezing the fish for a couple of weeks will kill any microorganisms, bacteria, or any other parasite which is inside the fish.

I was rather shocked myself when I asked the Saint Bernard rescue up north, but she explained. I done the research if freezing really does kill the metacercariae, it does.

You're welcomed to do your own research to verify.



Connie Sutherland said:


> Ah. Found one.
> 
> http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/salmon.asp


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

David Ross said:


> The link below is very correct, and there is a method used to kill the microorganisms. Freezing the fish for a couple of weeks will kill any microorganisms, bacteria, or any other parasite which is inside the fish.


Actually, freezing meat does not kill all bacteria. It does kill parasites like worms, but not bacteria. Bacteria are very tough little critters.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> David Ross said:
> 
> 
> > The link below is very correct, and there is a method used to kill the microorganisms. Freezing the fish for a couple of weeks will kill any microorganisms, bacteria, or any other parasite which is inside the fish.
> ...


Absolutely correct. Nice catch, Maren. 8) 

Thawed arctic core samples have contained live bacteria.  

It doesn't even kill all worms. The trichina worms in game can be a different strain from the ones that used to be common in saughter hogs, and freezing doesn't kill them all.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

OOO. I used the wrong word, "any". I should know better.

Yeah, I did see the article on the bacterial found in antarctica. Amazing how some strains can exist. Maybe which is why scientists are so excited about mars.

The Saint rescue has been using freezing and raw feeding for years. I'm sure whatever bacteria and worms which are located here die in the freezer or pass through.

I do know by talking to people who grew up remotely by ocean based homes had tons of malamutes. They in fact did *cook* their fish, even in the winter time. They threw everything in a barrel and cooked it. There were large buildings filled with people who were gutting fish solely for the dogs.



Connie Sutherland said:


> Maren Bell Jones said:
> 
> 
> > David Ross said:
> ...


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Well. After doing a bit more research because I remember eating salmon sushi in Anchorage, I've found out some more information.

Eating salmon raw is fine here if taken out of the ocean. Only when the salmon come in contact with fresh water they get infested with worms/worm eggs.

There are less cases of worms here because people fish the ocean., hence salmon sushi(raw fish).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Ross said:


> Well. After doing a bit more research because I remember eating salmon sushi in Anchorage, I've found out some more information.
> 
> Eating salmon raw is fine here if taken out of the ocean. Only when the salmon come in contact with fresh water they get infested with worms/worm eggs. .... .


If you read the link I posted, you will see that the Pacific northwest salmon poisoning is something ONLY DOGS get. NOTHING to do with people or sushi. (In addition, sushi is prepared by chefs who are trained to detect and refuse fish with parasite infestation, not that it has anything to do with this thread.)

Your statement ("Eating salmon raw is fine here if taken out of the ocean. Only when the salmon come in contact with fresh water they get infested with worms/worm eggs.") is not true about Pacific northwest salmonid fish for dogs. Salmon caught in the ocean may have already swum upstream to spawn and can easily have been infected with Nanophyetus salmincola.

The thread is about fish for dogs. Raw Pacific northwest salmonids (including trout), or fish that swim upstream to spawn, whether caught in the ocean or the fresh water, can cause salmon poisoning in dogs.

From the CDC:

Salmon poisoning disease is an acute, infectious disease of dogs in which the infective agent is transmitted through the various stages of a fluke in a snail-fish-dog life cycle. ... N.salmincola is a host for Neorickettsia helminthoeca which is the causative organism for "salmon poisoning" in canines. .... Currently the only means of prevention is to avoid ingestion by dogs of uncooked salmon, trout, steelhead, and similar Pacific Ocean-freshwater fish. END


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

A modest proposal. :twisted:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> A modest proposal. :twisted:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

From a modest man.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Well I guess for future reference I'll always cook salmon for the dogs just in case this parasite makes its way up to Alaska.

Ohh. I'm getting my parasites mixed up. :whistles: away.

dumb forgetting me.



Woody Taylor said:


> A modest proposal. Twisted Evil


nah. I want to do everything the hard way


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