# Question about a dogs "natural" bite.



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I had a guy, a trainer according to him, make the statement on my board that there is only one natural bite. It is natural for a dog to bite with the front canines(he called it a certain kind of bite to add credence" . He said all dogs have to be taught a full mouth bite. I have never taught a full moth bite in my life and told him that he was blowing smoke. In man work, is his statement true or false? I told him a committed dog uses a full mouth bite and has no intentions of backing out. When they have a weak bite with the canines(fur pullers I call them), they are just leaving themselves room to back out if it gets to rough.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I really really hate to paste a link to their site... but there's alot of folks out there who believe in "The Baden Theory", one of which is their anti-full-mouth-bite campaign, here is an article that explains one view of the full mouth bite...

http://www.badenk9.com/editorials/fullmouthbite.html

Another view? Perhaps they are just trying to sell dogs and explain away why their dogs practice bad/insecure biting habbits. Pretty damn smart marketing if you ask me! "No my product doesn't suck, everyone else is just wrong about what a good product is".


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

:twisted: :lol: I would agree with you mostly, but IMO there are also very committed dogs that bite with a half mouth bite. Bites with just the canines are generally the calling card of a somewhat anxious dog. Also, the full mouth bite is genetic.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Andres, if a full mouth bite is genetic, I guess that kind of blows the statement that all dogs have to be trained for a full mouth bite. Is there any studies that state this is a gentic trait that I can check out?

Mike, I will check out that link you posted. I am with you though, the marketing strategy gets them top dollar.

Thanks


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Let's say a dog is sent on a known and very dangerous criminal...

From a tactical point of view, I would not want a dog that comes off when he sees something come over his head, or when he gets kicked, punched, or whatever. If the dog comes off if he percieves a threat to his safety, the dog can be held at bay with threats...and then can be hurt, or allow the criminal to gain other advantage, like (better) cover for example.

I would much rather the dog keep on the bite, thrashing his x lbs of pressure and mass, tearing with the canines, crushing with every tooth behind them, re-biting as the area opens, rendering the part he's biting useless, allowing other things to happen in assisting the dog.

If the dog has been taught to target areas of "interest", such as the armpit, the upper arm, the knees, so much the better.

Dick van Leeuwen said it best. The dog must make the difference, or something like that.

Dogs that bite with just the canines are a single step from coming off.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Didn't the full mouth bite originate from when shepherd dogs used to herd sheep--they would grip the sheep to catch it without heavy damage? I heard it's also why it's preferred, to subdue an attacker without killing him/bleeding him to death.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks for the link Mike. I would have to question if they have ever seen the underlying damage that is done with a full mouth bite when the dog starts shaking the prey. It may look like a few puncture wounds on the surface, even of an animal, but, when you go to skinning it, there is a horrendous amount of tissue damage to the muscle and from the appearrance, every blood vein, artery and capillary in the area is destroyed. As much meat has to be discarded as when game is shot with a high power rifle.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> if a full mouth bite is genetic, I guess that kind of blows the statement that all dogs have to be trained for a full mouth bite. Is there any studies that state this is a gentic trait that I can check out?


I don't know of any. My view is from empirical observation of a bunch of litters, and their development. Many dogs can be taught to improve their bite, but they do so expecting some form of reward, such as decoy submission, a sleeve, grunts and moans. The genetic full-mouth biters simply try to stuff as much "stuff" as possible into their mouth.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Andres, let me ask you, did every dog in particular litters have a full mouth bite, or was it a mixed bag? What I have noticed is that the most confident dogs tend to go the full mouth route while the others leave themselves room to back out. I guess what I am asking, could it be the confidence level instead of the genetics?


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Don, just as with "fur pullers", dogs that bite with their canines are pullers, instead of pushers, and stand a good chance of grabbing mostly clothing. For me, pullers and tip of the mouth biters don't work well.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Don, I think confidence level is also genetic. Regarding the numbers, in a litter where both parents, and their lineage, are full mouth biters...you'll see many dogs that are full mouth biters. In a litter where both parents, and their lineage are not full mouth biters...you will RARELY see a full mouth biter. That's the extent of my conclusion... :lol: :lol:


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes, the full, calm bite comes from the original purpose that the German shepherd was created to do; tending work. It is genetic. A full mouth grip that is a calm one is going to cause less damage to a sheep than if the dog were to bite only with the front of his mouth, or bite and shake. That's where the whole full calm grip thing comes from.

Jessie is only 6 months old, and has never had any drive building or bitework done with her, but by God she bites with her entire mouth around whatever she's biting. It was not taught to her; it's just the way she naturally bites. Jak bites full initially, but then chews, which causes him to back off the bite a little. We're working on that with him.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2006)

From a newbs point of view, I have been bitten by both.

The molar bite,due to it's mechanical advantage or fulcrum if you will hurts like hell..not to say that a canine bite is in any way comfortable, but just imagine it as a set of vice grips..would you prefer a pinch from the end or from the base.

Multiple bites by canine teeth can be very devastating no doubt, depends on your circumstances I suppose.

Both work well, I like the crushing bite..but I am no expert, and this is just my opinion.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Oh, and to add to it, I believe it's genetic. My dog bites full. If someone says this was because of my training, well...all I have to say is, LOL. :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think that a lot of times even though the bite is genetic, pressure can cause the bite to be less than full.


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