# My Rottie on suit for the first time



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm going to do ring sport with my malinois and stopped out to a mondio club this evening. We thought it would be fun to see how the rottie would do. This is his first time on a suit.

By the end of the session he was already transitioning from schH style arm bites to shoulder and upper body bites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-_uw6yKdKU


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok, looks like you are pretty enthusiastic ! !! ! Mondio is the best of course, but if I was your decoy and you were running around me yelling and such????? We would have to talk. The dog gets it LOL No need for all that. :-D 

Looks like you will be having fun with two dogs now. MUCH better than stinky old Sch.

Ask Bob how much he likes their stinky tracking. OOOOOOOO 600 meters. I have so many jokes.......

Keep up with the Mondio, it is very addictive.=D> =D> =D>


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ok, looks like you are pretty enthusiastic ! !! ! Mondio is the best of course, but if I was your decoy and you were running around me yelling and such????? We would have to talk. The dog gets it LOL No need for all that. :-D
> 
> Looks like you will be having fun with two dogs now. MUCH better than stinky old Sch.
> 
> ...


They told me to yell "GOOD BOY" "GIT 'EM" etc... I didn't think I needed to either but was doing what they said. I'm new to this. They weren't sure he'd bite the suit because of schH and I was like..."well he bit a dude for real a couple of weeks ago"


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

are there many rotties in Mondio? I've been told by lots of people rotties can't do a lot of the exercises in ring so I never looked into.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Your boy looks like he has a good conformation to be a Ring Rottie, if not a breed ring Rottie. He looks like my 80 pounder. Good luck.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Chad Byerly said:


> Your boy looks like he has a good conformation to be a Ring Rottie, if not a breed ring Rottie. He looks like my 80 pounder. Good luck.


Thanks! As of yesterday he's 78.3lbs


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

Hi Chris

There is a MR2 Rottie somewhere, I stumbled on the video and sent it to my sctutzhund friend with a Rottie. I'll see if I can find that old email.

Rotts certainly are smart enough, and some can really jump nice too.
good luck
lg


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Here's a short video of a MondioRottie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oegyeJL7gM&feature=related

Look at the second image, from 2003 Int'l Mondio Championship 
http://www.awdf.net/awdfmondio1.html

Scroll to bottom
http://users.skynet.be/hexental/belringsport.htm


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

There was a Rott in the coupe of France in 2005. I thought he did very well, and I was told he was displastic. So why not??????


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There was a Rott in the coupe of France in 2005. I thought he did very well, and I was told he was displastic. So why not??????



we're going to give a go. He has a very good schH foundation and he can get into the air. I think he likes biting the suit better than a a sleeve anyway.\\/


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

We have a 90lb Rotty at Sch club that is probably one of the smoothest jumpers I've seen in ANY breed. 
Agood one is an awesome dog to watch.

Chris, Some dogs will pay to much attention to the handler that does a lot of praise while the dog is on the sleeve. Yurs looked like he was having way to much fun to be distracted. 

Jeff, in SAR training Thunder did a very obvious head check and went to a "victim" almost a quarter mile away. Watching him quickly narrowing that scent cone was a joy. That was at 7 months old. He just doesn't see the sense in keeping his nose on the ground when he already knows where the person/article is. :lol: 
I do love the real stuff as much as the sport stuff bores me.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

YEah I don't know what all the yelling is for either. You can hear their trainer off camera saying the same things I was... he was telling me what to say so I did. He seems to think for young dogs and first time dogs, the enthusiasm helps. Personally I think it's because my dogs like to bite. My dog knows Packen but doesn't know what Git'em means....

Almost all of my commands are whisper quiet. I figured it would come in handy on the trial field if I needed to say something sofly through my teeth. 

But hey, I had a blast. Those guys certainly know more than me so it's in my best interest to be a sponge and do exactly what they say.




Bob Scott said:


> We have a 90lb Rotty at Sch club that is probably one of the smoothest jumpers I've seen in ANY breed.
> Agood one is an awesome dog to watch.
> 
> Chris, Some dogs will pay to much attention to the handler that does a lot of praise while the dog is on the sleeve. Yurs looked like he was having way to much fun to be distracted.
> ...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Bob, why do you resist Mondio so much ???? I know you hear it's call.


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## Neil Zive (Oct 12, 2008)

Looks from the video that he is fixed on the equipment and does not focus on the helper....not too good if he is a PPD......Maybe I am wrong but that what's apparent in the video


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Neil Zive said:


> Looks from the video that he is fixed on the equipment and does not focus on the helper....not too good if he is a PPD......Maybe I am wrong but that what's apparent in the video


he's a schH dog.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Neil Zive said:


> Looks from the video that he is fixed on the equipment and does not focus on the helper....not too good if he is a PPD......Maybe I am wrong but that what's apparent in the video


Why do people put so much emphasis on this? Isn't this the same dog that DID protect his owner recently?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Lyn Chen said:


> Why do people put so much emphasis on this? Isn't this the same dog that DID protect his owner recently?



Yes, he dished out a live bite a couple of weeks ago. 

With the schH training we train to be more focused on the man and he usually is. For this suit work video, there wasn't any pressure put on the dog. The dog was in prey the whole time, that's why you see my dog on the ground trying to "kill" his catch. The thrashing kill shake is a rottie thing. This was his first time and they wanted it to be a fun experience for the dog. If the decoy would have stepped towards the dog or showed any kind of pressure the dog would have left the suit and delivered a bite. In this vid my dog lacked power as he'd been on the field for about 25-30 minutes at the time. The decoy was making him miss with the hopes that he would not continue to go for the arm but that's the problem with the solid schH foundation. In close quarters he was biting shoulders and body but on the longer escapse he continued to go for the arms. 

Why do you want focus on the man in schutzhund? It makes for a more pronounced dog because he's generally showing more aggression toward the helper rather than prey barking at the prey item. In some trials you will see dog jumping up in the face of the helper and clacking his teeth at his neck - that's a crowd pleaser!


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Define "focus" on the man, though. People seem to think just because a dog loves the sleeve/etc. too much that he is no good. If it a good dog, and he is with a helper he's known for a while, and he has not been taught anything else, I don't see why equipment fixation is such a big deal. The dog knows the rules and is playing by the rules. There are dogs that love the equipment but also love the decoy for the challenge he brings. He will go after the equipment, look for the decoy, and sort of coyly give the impression he wants the guy to try and take it from him.

Sometimes people say a dog is so good and focused on the man, and yet in actuality he is a nervy pos who can't concentrate on the game because he is scared the decoy will hurt him so he always has to put up a front. 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is...a single behaviour shouldn't be enough to judge a dog with.


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

You have a nice looking Rottweiler. I have worked with Rottweilers for about 11 years now and have bred several litters. I watched the video several times of the dog. He is focused on the arm more then any other part. I'm sure he fires up nice under agitation as rottweilers tend to have high defense. When confronted under agitation he must fight and bite what presents itself regardless if its an arm or leg. Training and winning in on the suit will help a lot. I like the decoy going to the ground because it builds confidence in your dog. I would however watch some videos on decoy protection. You should have steped in to protect the decoys head in case of a transfer especially with a dog new to suit work. I have seen some nasty bites by doing exactly what I observed in the video. If the dog had transfered to the neck or face it could have been deadly. Not trying to beat you up but just give you some helpful advise. I 'm sure the decoy would appreciate it.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Thank you Andy. You're right. I dunno if you could hear what the decoy was saying but he wanted me to step into the area by his head to protect him and to keep the dog from spinning on the decoy. We chatted about my handling skills after that bit...it's new to me. The decoy said he wasn't overly concerned because he knew the dog has his bite work foundation in schH (arm and equipment focus), and he had yet to put any significant pressure on him to make him a "bad guy"

I have other bits of video where the dog was agitated and then you can see the dog dig into the decoy and work his way up the body. Those vids weren't as exciting as him leaping into the air and chasing the man down.

In talking with the decoy and training, we're going to keep the dog on upper body bites in case I ever decide to put a schH title on him. A helper in scratch pants could possibly get hurt. That makes sense to me.

We did two sessions and we were teaching targeting and back bites in the last training session. I'm going to work with those guys again on thursday and friday of this week.



Andy Larrimore said:


> You have a nice looking Rottweiler. I have worked with Rottweilers for about 11 years now and have bred several litters. I watched the video several times of the dog. He is focused on the arm more then any other part. I'm sure he fires up nice under agitation as rottweilers tend to have high defense. When confronted under agitation he must fight and bite what presents itself regardless if its an arm or leg. Training and winning in on the suit will help a lot. I like the decoy going to the ground because it builds confidence in your dog. I would however watch some videos on decoy protection. You should have steped in to protect the decoys head in case of a transfer especially with a dog new to suit work. I have seen some nasty bites by doing exactly what I observed in the video. If the dog had transfered to the neck or face it could have been deadly. Not trying to beat you up but just give you some helpful advise. I 'm sure the decoy would appreciate it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

"focus" on the man is goofpants talk. It is a shaped behavior as well. If the dog looks at the guy, he gets a bite from the big goofy arm thing. 

Try not to go all bandogge on us please. LOL


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> "focus" on the man is goofpants talk. It is a shaped behavior as well. If the dog looks at the guy, he gets a bite from the big goofy arm thing.
> 
> Try not to go all bandogge on us please. LOL



I remember the days when I thought it would be cool to have a bandogge. Then my former uncle...(he was married to my dad sister but they got divorced be he stayed in touch with my dad) who was a k9 trainer said "If they were worth a shit we'd be using 'em. Stick to shepherds if you want a "bad ass dog"".... so of course I got a rottie. LOL


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> "focus" on the man is goofpants talk. It is a shaped behavior as well. If the dog looks at the guy, he gets a bite from the big goofy arm thing.
> 
> Try not to go all bandogge on us please. LOL


I was at a club a while ago and we were talking about focus on the man. The handler was talking about how badass his dog was... the help said it's nothing but a big sleeve dog. He proved it by walking over to a chair with the dog still doing his bark and hold at the sleeve he left in the blind.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff, it's a geography thing more then a desire thing. 
Retired, fixed income, Sch club 20 mins away. No brainer! :lol:

I've seen plenty of good dogs that have to "learn" the B&H simply because that what's required. My own young dog would just as soon go over, under or around the sleeve but we've "taught" him the game. 
Doesn't necessarily make him a good/badass dog, just one that didn't yet know the "game".


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Bob, why do you resist Mondio so much ???? I know you hear it's call.


Jeff, trust me, if we had a club in this whole state, even I would probably would figure out a way to get to training every once in a while! 8) If my knee wasn't just about shot and my coordination was better, who knows? Maybe I'd try decoying myself...my husband supposedly had a lot of natural talent the couple times he did it for Schutzhund, except he needs a lot more practice reading dogs. Maybe one of these days... :-k


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