# AKC CGC gone wrong



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Have you ever found someone with an AKC CGC on their dog and the dog was later a problem? I had a guy call me from New Jersey about Bouviers and threw the CGC thing on me. My female has it, my male doesn't and my personal thought: it's a feel good award. It does show some work that one has put on the dog but I question the feeling of safety now that the dog has it. Never seen a dog with one that became an issue dog... Taking the same spin on the Sch BH.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Two of the most dangerous dogs I've known had CGC's. Once was a dog I owned and eventually euthanized for behavior problems. The other was a person who consulted me over a few years - he never did give up on the dog even though it had bitten him several times. The first dog had some wierd wires-corssed stuff going on. The second dog was dominant-aggressive. 

I also see the CGC as a feel-good thing with MY dogs, but there are a lot of nice enough dogs out there that can't pass it. I'm a CGC evaluator, and I'm surprised every once in a while at the dogs that don't pass.

I use the CGC as a tool in selecting dogs and in measuring a dog's progress in training. For Service and Therapy Dogs, I won't bring a dog into my program unless it has a CGC, and I don't allow owner-trained dogs to progress into task training until it has a CGC. First things first!

Now if you think the CGC is a feel-good, go take a look at the new S.T.A.R. Puppy test.  :roll: ](*,)

Even with the test being so simple, I still think it has value! Why not?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Anne sounds good. I guess my other question is after the CGC, how many folks will never follow up or do more with their dog? After the effort has been applied to this award...oh, it's good enough becomes the phrase. I think all training must keep going and even if titles aren't worked towards, you are still keeping skills fresh. Thoughts on the TT???


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Anne sounds good. I guess my other question is after the CGC, how many folks will never follow up or do more with their dog? After the effort has been applied to this award...oh, it's good enough becomes the phrase. I think all training must keep going and even if titles aren't worked towards, you are still keeping skills fresh. Thoughts on the TT???


TT is nice, but in WI/MN, it's almost impossible to get to a test date. My dogs now are CGC, TT.

Most people don't move on after CGC. If they do, TDI is the next logical step.

AKC recommends CGC retesting every 2 years. I require it for Service and Therapy Dogs.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Look at the people that give, I mean hand, I mean....well you know what I mean. They know shit.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I recently saw one handed to an unsound dog so its not the be all, end all its supposed to be. I find it interesting that there are classes for it. The year they became available I did my corgi at a national show because his breeder said, hey, go do the CGC. He was't a dog that was big about other dogs and we did that twice--dogs passing as handlers heeled in opposite directions. She said she could see a flicker but he kept his attention on me. I think it should be a walk in the park for a confident dog. I don't think it means that a dog can't be provoked. Its sorta a minimal thing.

Terrasita


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> .... I think it should be a walk in the park for a confident dog. I don't think it means that a dog can't be provoked. Its sorta a minimal thing.
> 
> Terrasita


I think that you are exactly correct. :smile:


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

I have a CGC for my HD bitch...I still have NO idea how she managed to get this. I do not trust her around strangers at ALL.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I recently saw one handed to an unsound dog so its not the be all, end all its supposed to be. I find it interesting that there are classes for it. The year they became available I did my corgi at a national show because his breeder said, hey, go do the CGC. He was't a dog that was big about other dogs and we did that twice--dogs passing as handlers heeled in opposite directions. She said she could see a flicker but he kept his attention on me. I think it should be a walk in the park for a confident dog. I don't think it means that a dog can't be provoked. Its sorta a minimal thing.
> 
> Terrasita


I agree with this! 



Anne Vaini said:


> Two of the most dangerous dogs I've known had CGC's. Once was a dog I owned and eventually euthanized for behavior problems. The other was a person who consulted me over a few years - he never did give up on the dog even though it had bitten him several times. The first dog had some wierd wires-corssed stuff going on. The second dog was dominant-aggressive.


My little issue bitch has her CGC and TT. We worked our butts off to be able to pass the TT as she would normally try and eat the threatening person with no recovery. The CGC even for her was a breeze. 

I do think that it is a feel good thing, but IF you rent, it does help soothe landlords nerves about certain breeds and their tempermants. The TT tends to help as well. So, I do recommend people get them. 

In regards to continuing training after the CGC, I think that your average pet owner does not continue with training and honestly, their dog probably couldn't pass it 6 months after they got it. Depends on the person. For me, it was just more letters to put behind my dogs' names, easy to get and obtain so why not. 

Courtney


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I just told you how you got it. HA HA

THe term is flooding. People who are idiots take their dogs that are dog aggro to the dog park, and there are too many dogs for the dog to focus the fear on, and everything is fine.

THen they go, and there are only a couple, and the dang dog goes after one, and they can't figure it out. 

Now take the people that are CGC evaluators. They were handing this out in the mid 90's to dog trainers. No applications unaccepted. LOL

THis is the same for the temp tests. ALL USELESS without someone that actually knows what a dog is doing. THey also have to be strong enough personalities to stand up to show bitches with rich husbands. ot easy if you want to be in that world.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> THey also have to be strong enough personalities to stand up to show bitches with rich husbands. ot easy if you want to be in that world.


Hahah, this is your best one yet. You should try to go up against those junior handler mommies when little jane or johnny doesn't win. May need the PPD.

The CGC is becoming useful for landlords, and probably insurance companies in the future if not already. My best friend is involved in therapy work and her dog needed the CGC/TDI. They have done some amazing work. I think its just that most dog people know that in the world of titledom, you don't take anything for granted. A title can mean it was trained to do something, not necessarily its innate character. Read the dog, not the letters.

Terrasita


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have to admit, when I see CGC I think title hunter. It's a goof.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> ... The CGC is becoming useful for landlords ...


Yes, I do the managing for a couple of pieces of residential real estate, and I require that. I just figure (as I'm sure many do) that if the dog-owner can't even manage that, then it bodes ill for the future ....


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I do think if you are training in bite work, its good to get the CGC, TT or both for that matter. In the world of BSL, for the working breeds I think its going to be standard for marketing for those dogs. Its getting to the point that we have to be proactive and provide some evidence that our dogs are safe. Whatever we think of the CGC, its becoming a standard measure. For pet people as Connie says, its a very minimal standard and the classes would be good for them. But when I see an OTCH person running to get a CGC and/or my new favorite, Rally, I'm like geez, give it a rest already. Don't get me wrong, when Rally was first announced I thought, great something non-anal and fun. Would be great for the kids or entry level dog because you can talk to them and its great to start them trialing with. Low and behold I go to watch it and see the area OTCH handler/dog teams ready to slit their mama's throats if they don't win. Ridiculous.

Terrasita


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just to CMA I have the CGC and TT on both my GSD's. No reason not to but I will agree there are to many give aways to dogs that shouldn't have them. 
My son just purchased his first home. The insurance company he went with cuts a break for dog folks IF they have the CGC. 
ANY sound dog should pass the CGC with little to no training. 
I'm also a CGC evaluator. I filled out a really lame questionair over the net and "PRESTO"! Here I be!


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## Chris Wild (Jan 30, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I do think if you are training in bite work, its good to get the CGC, TT or both for that matter. In the world of BSL, for the working breeds I think its going to be standard for marketing for those dogs. Its getting to the point that we have to be proactive and provide some evidence that our dogs are safe. Whatever we think of the CGC, its becoming a standard measure.


We have CGCs and TTs on our dogs. This past weekend we had a CGC evaluator come out to our SchH club and all the dogs who didn't already have CGCs tested for it and all passed with flying colors. It is a very bare bones test of training, manners and temperament, but I think it's a good idea to have and ^^^^^ is the main reason why. 

As far as testing general temperament and training, something like the BH is a better test. But saying a dog has a BH pretty well draws blank stares from the general public (and lawyers and insurance agents). But the American Kennel Club certifying a dog as a "Canine Good Citizen" impresses those folks. They recognize the AKC, and "Canine Good Citizen" is all touchy feely sounding, so they put credence in it. Considering the public opinion towards many working breeds and anything involving bitework training, and the gross amount of misunderstanding about those things, little certificates like this can go a long way in maintaining our rights to own these breeds and train them how we want.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Both my GSD and Dane have a CGC. Even though the GSD passed easily, I don't trust him around other dogs. He'll be fine and the next thing you know he's running one down and knocking it over, then he trots back all happy. 

My Dane could retake it any day of the week without any brush up training and pass. At one point my wife was going to get her TDI certified but I think her priority changed to riding her motorcycle in her free time. 

I haven't been exposed to enough people with CGC's to know how many continue on with more training, but my feeling is if someone is going to spend the time to get a CGC, that they are not a typical do nothing with their dog type owner, and that they will continue to train the dog. Maybe not in anything competitive, but will continue to work with the dog so it's a good dog for their needs.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

_*"I have to admit, when I see CGC I think title hunter. It's a goof."*

_Got to disagree-I don't think it is a goof, and I don't think everyone going for a CGC on a dog, is just going for the title.....yep, I am a CGC Evaluator also, but I really do think it is a very good starting place for new handlers -young handlers and at times for the old experienced handlers with new dogs . I agree for someone experienced, it is not hard to pass, -but Hopefully it will encourage others new to the dog world to go on to do something more with their dogs. 
Maybe it is the actual title of being" good" -that confuses some,because it is not a promise the dog will always be good, but rather at the time of this testing,the dog was successful in acheiving the tasks asked of him. Tasks that not every dog is able to successfully complete.
Why not encourage something that could be a very positive thing, it is certainly not the level of competition you may be experienced with, but at least these owners are starting somewhere- they could have just decided to keep the dog chained up in the yard as a lawn ornament and forget about it....:?:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Maybe you just skimmed what we wrote, and didn't see why I think it is a goof.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

I happened to be at an agility event (helping our agility trainer set up and break down) offering GCG and TDI testing a while back and had Gator with me and thought "why not"? 

He is a very confident, clear, stable dog and we passed both the CGC and TDI with absolute ease. The evaluator asked "do you think he'd make a good therapy dog?" and when I answered "heck no!", she was a bit taken aback but never even questioned why. :roll:


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