# Suspect shot outside Carls Jr. (GRAPHIC)



## Andy Sepulveda (Jun 19, 2010)

Looked like the guy was tasered in the face, but had no effect on him. Why wouldn't a cop use his K9 in a situation like this? http://youtu.be/bY5ioBvrYIg


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

It looked like he was pepper sprayed not tased?
The guy was about to lay out the the cops partner with the crowbar. IM totally civilian Opinion deadly force was completely justified.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Excessive force in my civilian opinion! How many shots did that guy pop off? Seemed like he emptied the clip into that KID.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lisa

Where do you get "kid"?
Pretty big "kid" and a pretty big crowbar.
I'm in the "keep on pulling the trigger till the opponent hits the
ground" school of self defense.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Erm...maybe a mod might want to put a tag that this video is extremely graphic?


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## Andy Sepulveda (Jun 19, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> It looked like he was pepper sprayed not tased?
> The guy was about to lay out the the cops partner with the crowbar. IM totally civilian Opinion deadly force was completely justified.


If you look closely you can see the wire from the taser, and you can see the guy pulling the prongs out.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Andy Sepulveda said:


> If you look closely you can see the wire from the taser, and you can see the guy pulling the prongs out.


If he was tased and still kept coming? I'd suspect he was under the influence of drugs? I'd be interested in the toxicology report.


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

*Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets . . . You may get killed with your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, cause it'll be empty.*


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Tazers work by causing muscle to contract. Very little muscle in the face. Probes too close together to do any good. Why he would Taze in the face doesn't make sense when he had the whole body at his disposal.

The guys posting the video were quite cavalier about the whole thing. Just another day in the Barrio I guess. Pass the popcorn.](*,)

Not very graphic in my eyes but maybe for others who aren't used to seeing this sort of thing. Nothing to see really....just imagine.

I wonder if Chico gave his video to the police for evidence to clear the cops. Nahhhh! Put it on youtube instead.


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Yeah completely justified. 

For those that think it's unjustified, put yourself as one of the officers and your spouse as the other (don't care pick one). If there was a guy who was about to play t-ball with you or your spouse's head with a crowbar, what would you do?


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

Not that graphic to me. he got what he deserved a crowbar to face is deadly also,you shoot to kill ,was what had to be done another POS hits the dirt.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Somebody actually gets killed on video on Youtube...and that's not graphic? Uh...what? :-o

Who it was that got killed or whether they deserved it doesn't change how graphic it is, sorry.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

sooo. If I get pulled over, I should NOT grab the prybar and start wielding it around threatening people.....CHECK!


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

From what i seen in person that was not graphic at all. a person getting shot on tape ,it,s on TV every night?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

wanna see graphic...go to Ebaums World...


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Keith Earle said:


> From what i seen in person that was not graphic at all. a person getting shot on tape ,it,s on TV every night?


 True That. The videographer didn't think it was and he saw it in person. 

The officers that killed that K9 a few years ago had me bawling if that makes you feel any better.


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Tazers work by causing muscle to contract. Very little muscle in the face. Probes too close together to do any good. Why he would Taze in the face doesn't make sense when he had the whole body at his disposal.
> 
> The guys posting the video were quite cavalier about the whole thing. Just another day in the Barrio I guess. Pass the popcorn.](*,)
> 
> ...



just curious .... do the probes have to touch skin to do damage, cause that guy had a puffy jacket on. maybe thats why they shot him in the face .... but how the hell was he still resisting with 6 bullets in him?


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Lisa
> 
> Where do you get "kid"?


It was the baggy pants and hoodie over a ball cap that clued me in.

What ADULT do you know who dresses like that?

Well, excluding rappers - who sell their rediculous product to...... KIDS.

Humpty Dance here's your chance do the HUMP! \\/

OW OW!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

That's kind of my point, though. If it was the cop that had a clip emptied into them and put up on Youtube, would it still be "not that graphic" and no big deal?

Note: not debating the suspect's actions as I honestly don't care, just the perceived "graphicness" of the clip.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: "The officers that killed that K9 a few years ago had me bawling if that makes you feel any better"

funny that you brought that up...been thinking along the same line for awhile now; how you can get hardened and desensitized to some pretty nasty stuff but not others ??
- saw a little feral kitty get nailed right in the street in front of me just chasing her buddy when i was out with the dog the other night....only seen it a few times, but it came right up to me and my dog wanting to play. got pretty watery when i told my wife about it ]:-(
- and i'm still feeling guilty about having a dog put down for aggression a few weeks back...really liked the dog and didn't feel it was born that way

maybe because no matter what age, they still seem like innocent babies when they die ???


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Tyree Johnson said:


> just curious .... do the probes have to touch skin to do damage, cause that guy had a puffy jacket on. maybe thats why they shot him in the face .... but how the hell was he still resisting with 6 bullets in him?


It will function through some clothing up to a certain point so the probes don't have to penetrate the skin, although the thing sure will work if both probes go into the skin. They also don't do "damage" other than a small puncture. They function on interferering with the signals your brain is trying to send to your muscles. If both probes connect (which doesn't look like happens here) the circuit is connected and your brain can't tell your muscles what to do. The farther the spread the more muscles affected. What happens a lot is the second probe doesn't hit or the probe spread is not enough to affect enough muscles to completely imobilize them. 

As far as the face, I doubt that was the point of aim as that's not taught in the school, under stress your fine motor skills go out the window and make sit hard to aim. Or the probe skipped off something and connected there. any number of things could have happened. 

For the resisting, it's entirely possible depending where the shots landed. That officer cranked off those rounds in a real quick time frame. During the shooting the guy was probably was still trying to resist.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Brett Bowen said:


> That officer cranked off those rounds in a real quick time frame. During the shooting the guy was probably was still trying to resist.


Resisting? Or flailing about as a result of 12 slugs? :?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

The wider the probe spread, the more effective it is. 

A Tazer trigger has a 2 second delay. Wherever the laser is when you pulled the trigger doesn't neccessarily mean that's where the thing will be pointed when it goes pop.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Resisting? Or flailing about as a result of 12 slugs? :?


 That's a huge assumption. Cops NEVER hit 100% of the time...more like 20-30%. Just because there were 10 shots dont mean there were 10 hits. Chances are the handler might have hit once being as he was shooting under stress, one handed, holding a K9. Try it sometime. The other 5 could be justified. We don't yet know how many hits there was and if they were life threatening.


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Resisting? Or flailing about as a result of 12 slugs? :?


Under stress thinking someone is about to get attacked with a deadly weapon you get: tunnell vision, hearing occlusion, loss of fine motor skills, memory loss, the list goes on. It'd be speculation for either of us to say what was going on because the suspect falls behind the car, was he reacting to getting shot and the officer percieved it as resisting? Maybe. was he still trying to get up and bring the fight after being shot? maybe. we don't know the camera angle does not show. I can understand your viewpoint and how it appears. 

Also people don't "flail" like they do in the movies. Plus you would be surprised what drugs or just a determined individual is capable of doing. I watched a 5 foot nothing 140 pound guy lift a 6 foot 235 solid as a rock muscle head officer off the ground as the officer was on top of him. The guy had super human strength and was feeling absolutely no pain. We fought with him for a long time. Little bit of drugs on board, but a lot of determination not to go to jail. 

This article just came out about these type of things and how the public views them. There's a full length video available for purchase too. As I said, I can understand your viewpoint, but I hope that you can follow the link with an open mind and look to understand the police side of things. 

http://www.policeone.com/officer-sh...-combats-public-myths-about-police-shootings/


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## Brian Dascalu (Aug 7, 2011)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Excessive force in my civilian opinion! How many shots did that guy pop off? Seemed like he emptied the clip into that KID.


Try watching again. Both officers fired 5 shots each. In that situation the only reason to stop shooting the scumbag is that you run out of ammo.


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## Brian Dascalu (Aug 7, 2011)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Erm...maybe a mod might want to put a tag that this video is extremely graphic?


Why? It isn't


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

So if your LEO partner had a clip emptied into his chest and killed him in the same manner and it was all caught on tape and uploaded to Youtube, would that be okay too? Just like another video game or movie, no big deal?

Again, not defending the suspect, just the graphicness of the clip.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So if your LEO partner had a clip emptied into his chest and killed him in the same manner and it was all caught on tape and uploaded to Youtube, would that be okay too? Just like another video game or movie, no big deal?
> 
> Again, not defending the suspect, just the graphicness of the clip.


 Some people you feel for. Some you don't. 

Some people get killed doing good things for others. Some people victimize other people then bring a pipe to a gun fight. Hard to feel bad for a scumbag criminal who brings misery upon decent people. Sorry.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

To answer the OP, why send the dog? So the dog can take the hit from the crowbar?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Howard, how we feel for the other person has nothing to do with how graphic it is. That could have been Osama bin Laden getting shot and killed on video or your own father and it'd still be graphic.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Howard, how we feel for the other person has nothing to do with how graphic it is. That could have been Osama bin Laden getting shot and killed on video or your own father and it'd still be graphic.


 Point taken but you can't on one hand ask me how I'd feel if it was a cop, then say it doesn't matter it's a human.

People are so desensitized to this crap nowadays anyway. Graphic is the guy who snuck a Colt 45 into the booking room then painted the walls with his brain, all on HD. I'd concede to that one being graphic.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Graphic "giving a clear and effective picture"
Graphics "are visual presentations"

There was NO need for a ( GRAPHIC) warning. The video didn't show anything.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Graphic "giving a clear and effective picture"
> Graphics "are visual presentations"
> 
> There was NO need for a ( GRAPHIC) warning. The video didn't show anything.


That should clear things up:razz:


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Anybody that keeps walking with guns pointed at him and that tall mali lunging at him clearly has no regard for his own life....that said, i feel the cops could have given him some more distance. I've never seen officers that close, they usually try to surround the suspect and move away if he approaches unless they are ready to take him down......Not too sure about using the dog, with good timing the dog could have gotten him before he smashes the dog then the officers would have rushed in......Not enough info to judge the cops IMO


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## Lori Gallo (May 16, 2011)

Justified. This just reinforces my appreciation for police officers. I can't imagine going to work each day and dealing with these people. "KIDS"??
are you kidding me? 
Regarding the dog...it seems that if the dog had been sent he'd have taken a hit with the crowbar. Sad to say the world is better off with one punk dead and one K9 still with us. 

Did you get the adrenaline laughs and giggles from the kids filming??? Crazy. 
Glad I have LTC.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

In my opinion this shooting was 100% justified, and not even a little bit graphic.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

The "kid" was twenty two and the police were called because he had already smashed a bunch of windows in the Carl's Jr (and was threatening customers?)
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8517612


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Even though the guy was basically out of camera view when he was shot, I would think anytime someone is shot and it is filmed, it is still "graphic", even if you can't see it all. Shooting was 100% justified though.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I suppose the most disturbing/offensive/graphic part is the commentary from the guys taping it - like it's all a big show and not about someone get shot for real and all the fallout that goes with that both for the shooters and the suspect and their families.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

leslie cassian said:


> I suppose the most disturbing/offensive/graphic part is the commentary from the guys taping it - like it's all a big show and not about someone get shot for real and all the fallout that goes with that both for the shooters and the suspect and their families.


Me too.

I actually did not realize at first that he had been shot dead because I was listening to the commentary and the view was obscured. I had to re-watch it to understand.

It was shocking, and the shock for me all came from the commentary.


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## Jim Cook (Mar 17, 2010)

Taser = less than lethal force
K9 = less than lethal force

Crow Bar = lethal force
Handgun = lethal force


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Gee, poor person just out for a stroll with a metal device being destructive of other people's property and probably scaring the daylights out of whoever saw the dude smashing what he wanted to smash for no apparent reason. Along comes some cops, they are they to keep civil law and order in our neighbourhoods, and take the fella on. This dude had could care less and proved it even more by NOT listening to the officers many times. *Great job officers.* Glad you got him before he whacked some senior or a baby out with mom in a carriage. How could anyone on this site feel so sorry for the poor guy? Graphic? Far from it.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

SOME people are very confused here. To call this "GRAPHIC" does NOT mean we (well..I) don't agree 100% with what the officers did. Some actual, real life and death stuff is not usually viewed by everybody on a regular basis, so YES, this is a very GRAPHIC video to me...but again, the officers were completely justified in their actions.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Skip Morgart said:


> SOME people are very confused here. To call this "GRAPHIC" does NOT mean we (well..I) don't agree 100% with what the officers did. Some actual, real life and death stuff is not usually viewed by everybody on a regular basis, so YES, this is a very GRAPHIC video to me...but again, the officers were completely justified in their actions.


+1


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Skip Morgart said:


> .... To call this "GRAPHIC" does NOT mean we (well..I) don't agree 100% with what the officers did. Some actual, real life and death stuff is not usually viewed by everybody on a regular basis, so YES, this is a very GRAPHIC video to me...but again, the officers were completely justified in their actions.



+2


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Good point, Jim.

The cop did, afterall, try and taze him first.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Me too.
> 
> I actually did not realize at first that he had been shot dead because I was listening to the commentary and the view was obscured. I had to re-watch it to understand.
> 
> It was shocking, and the shock for me all came from the commentary.


i'm in--the guys filming it acted as if it was fun & games in the parking lot. wow. if this is the sort of non-empathetic kids we're raising, well, i'm glad to be heading for that sweet home in the sky and the bridge where i can reunite with my dogs.


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## Kevin Barrett (Dec 16, 2009)

Should we ban cnn? It may be to graphic


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

From a different perspective here in the UK that wouldn't have been a shooting. 
Don't get me wrong I'm a Sgt on a SWAT Team of 24yrs service, and we had have plenty of well funded IRA gangs, Muslim extremists and every other nutter going. 
I carry a Glock on me, a taser etc, and a Colt M4 556 calibre, but for us that was punch in chops, second taser and pepper spray with a dog to legs, followed by numerous more punches.
To be fair those officers looked a bit out of their depth, with no real plan and leadership. The issue for me was the half hearted swing by the perp, and the amount of rounds fired by the officers does suggest a certain mindset, normally I would expect 1 or 2 fired at that distance, then review the impact on the perp, it seemed very panicked and disproportionate.
The perceived threat to life was caused by the officer standing too close, provoking a shoot, as soon as the perp tried to get in the car your would have ripped his head off, trying swing an ornamental Cheyenne Axe inside a car is not very effective.

I'm not sympathetic to the perp he knows he lives in the US, and the likely outcome but it all seemed very exciting for a local donut with a pathetic weapon. We regularly deal with offenders with Chainsaws, and wouldn't even draw firearm , and they will fight us because 145,000 of the 150,000 bobbies aren't armed so they have nothing to fear and will take us on every time.


Our thresholds are much higher, and its not fair to judge local officers with very basic training, lack of experience, and no leadership in this situation. 
That said whilst this would get the republican vote but the majority of US Cops I've trained with were hard as nails, ice cool, and good people, they would have punched this pleb's lights out and put his ornamental Axe up his ass!
I think some of the old sweats and city cops in the US would have dealt with this differently.
I'm not judging I wasn't there but sharing a different perpective from a different part of the world.

Mark


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kevin Barrett said:


> Should we ban cnn? It may be to graphic


Just give me a warning a video is going to show someone getting shot multiple times and killed. Then I can decide if I want to watch or not. Heck, when I do abdominal surgery, flush and clean a nasty abscess, or castrate a sheep, it's pretty graphic too, but I'd give you a warning and so does TLC and the Discovery Channel. Actually, I neutered a dog about a week ago and because the dog was able to lick at the incision, he ended up with a pretty swollen scrotum and a draining tract with some lovely discharge. Should I post a picture of said swollen scrotum for the menfolk in the audience without any warning? :twisted::twisted::twisted:


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Mark Horne said:


> From a different perspective here in the UK that wouldn't have been a shooting.
> 
> Mark


 145,00 of your cops have no choice but to meet deadly force with non-deadly force. Your government has disarmed them. Pathetic really. Tells me how much they care for your guys. 

Everyone that lives here knows the rules...use deadly force against the police, expect it to be returned. No brainer.


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## Kevin Barrett (Dec 16, 2009)

Please no post on swollen anything. 

The American police officers are not all in Mayberry, I personally think we're way to soft as a nation as it is. If a person is willing to attack a police officer having guns drawn on him who knows why, he may have a fire arm on drugs whatever. Those same officers would have been condemned if trying to defuse the situation had he hurt some civilians and they were trying to smack him around. Then We'd be talking about police brutality.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

You don't even know how close that hits to home right now.](*,)


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

BLAH BLAH BLAH, break out the tissues wipe away the tears, I mean really who gives a flying shit if hes dead or not, did you know him, could you of helped the situation NO, does this country have a drug and addiction problem YES.

And why is it like this, is because you got all these liberal smucks wanting to make nicey nice, come on bullshit folks. They want to give officers guns and say dont use them unless you have too as last resort, give them tazers but say only use them if you can get them center mass or back, They want to tell them dont use batons and hit people here, here and here because you cold hurt them, only mace if need be and try not to do at certain intervals or areas. You know what why dont we just give them signs saying abuse us because we cant do nothing back to ya. We need to put feelings aside and let it be like it should.

One of my favorites well not really is if you hit him with a closed fist its excessive force, so hit him with a open hand, WOWWWWWWWWWWW

Back in the day they would kick your ever loving ass, now they want you to talk them down and give a hug almost, now wonder we have issues and cop killings are on the rise, its because the criminal mind saying do it, he can do nothing about it and you will be out before the night is over back on the streets. Another good example is bounty hunters vs police, why is it that a bounty hunter can kick you door in but a office needs a warant, thats some bullshit too. In some countries they cut your hand off at the wrist for shop lifting, you think that sends a message, yup it sure does. Then look at mexico, I was watching a show there that the inmates have beer, strippers and dope and run the jails, the correction officers are there to be there as a precautionary measure, come on are you for real.

List gos on and on and on, just like stay at home and collect pay checks while others break there balls and backs for this country. Its sad when your car cost more than your house and property, or you have 500 kids so your check is bigger and they rome the streets knocking folks off dont ya think. 

These issues got to start at the top and get fixed and get passed down so these guys and gals can do there jobs and stop being optimist and let them be oppurtunist again to regulate shit. Theres few departments that still get it on where it was known back in the day all departments got it on and you didnt even think of crossing the police. just my .02.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> You know what why dont we just give them signs saying abuse us because we cant do nothing back to ya. We need to put feelings aside and let it be like it should.


 Can't do it. We shipped all those signs to EnglandO


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## Kevin Barrett (Dec 16, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> Can't do it. We shipped all those signs to EnglandO




Lol can't top that
:-D


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Harry, why are you holding back? LOL.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Edward Egan said:


> Harry, why are you holding back? LOL.


Edward heres why I am not holding back, we really need to sit back and really really look at what we are doing as a nation and the message we are sending to the bad folks of the world. Heres a perfect example of a good cop screwed over for doing his job, last time I checked a bat could kill you or someone. Then the plot thickens on this poor cop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5_5xURbHMYg#!


This is like the message we are sending to the rest of the world while we turn our navy and the rest of the armed forces into a bath tub size force. Its just a matter of time before we are knee deep in some foreign country again fighting another war, because somebody decided to pick on us.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

And who was he screwed over by? You're really missing the point of that story!


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Thanks for the insight, Mark. Being a cop (in any country) is a dangerous job, even in Podunk, USA. Nobody taking that job doesn't know that.

Being kept safe from criminals as a cop is like keeping your privacy as a celebrity. It's something you know you're giving up the day you take the job.

That said, I hope all of our boys in blue are kept safe, and I sincerely appreciate those who have made the ultimate sacrifice.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Harry.... i understand your frustration
but 
mexican cops
bounty hunters
"back in the day"
....that's just more BLAH BLAH BLAH in another direction :-(

any sharp suck ass lawyer will give the LEOS on that scene problems if it goes in that direction, and i don't need to tell you why, and anyone can see that, even with the crappy audio/video level of that clip.....
- forget what the dirtbags in the peanut gallery had to say... totally irrelevant

if the slug had left a trail of blood inside and RAN out swinging, of COURSE it woulda justified dropping him as soon as a clear shot was available....otoh a punk walking out, talking shit and surrounded by LEO's, who raises his "deadly weapon" and shuffles his feet towards an officer who may have ducked in closer than he should have may or may NOT have justified immediately receiving 11 rounds at close range

- my background and experience would make me a horrible LEO, but even though i respect the HELL out of anyone that can deal with the scumbags of society on a daily basis, i still hold them to highest standards of professionalism, no matter how tuff it gets
- even tho the way it went down is much more cost effective 
- and won't comment on the K9 deployment since this wasn't a working dog thread :-(
- but if human life aint worth a shit if you are a scumbag human, then you've just lowered yourself to the same scumbag level imo, and that IS a bad road to start down

*note....this is NOT an opinion about whether they were right or wrong to kill the guy ... i only laid out a simple scenario that would have made immediate application of deadly force crystal clear ... that didn't happen

i've shed tears for those who have made the ultimate sacrifice ... but i cry more for service members who didn't even get a chance to die on US soil and are often left to rot in some hell hole of a country for 30-40 years before they are recovered and given a decent burial....thank you JPAC


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

rick smith said:


> Harry.... i understand your frustration
> but
> mexican cops
> bounty hunters
> ...


Gotcha, I'm with ya, I was just laying out some of the crap that gos on thats just straight up you know what, that we have created for ourselfs and unless things change it will continue to be a unfair battle for the good guys, but I get your drift Rick.


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> That's a huge assumption. Cops NEVER hit 100% of the time...more like 20-30%. Just because there were 10 shots dont mean there were 10 hits. Chances are the handler might have hit once being as he was shooting under stress, one handed, holding a K9. Try it sometime. The other 5 could be justified. We don't yet know how many hits there was and if they were life threatening.


Well said. 
The general public and especially the media is so quick to play monday morning quarterback. Completely justified shooting imo.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

maybe its me but that object in his had doesn't look like a crow bar. It looks like the thing you clean your windshield with. where was that ? I would like to look up a news story.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

was a pipe bender .I the news report


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## scott zimmerman (Dec 7, 2009)

Completely justified use of deadly force in my opinion. Remember, it isn't the officers that showed up for cheeseburgers and just decided that while they were there, they would shoot someone. They were called there, the suspect had every opportunity to surrender but was obvious with his intent to harm the officers. Realize that he wasn't shot until he moved to swing on the officer that appeared to me to be holstering his taser to draw his weapon. Lucky for him, the K9 officer had his handgun drawn and was paying attention because the other officer didn't see the swing coming until the K9 officer shot the suspect. As far as the lack of K9 deployment goes, two things. First, I don't think the K9 would have had time to react and apprehend the suspect before the pipe made contact with the other officer's melon. Secondly, just because you have an option available (ie. taser, OC, K9) doesn't mean it is the right tool for the job. A good example is the use of the K9 in the CA video others were referencing where the dog was shot as he went to take out the guy on the front porch who already threatened to shoot if they did. (Won't go into opinons and other options in that video, it has been discussed). Hollywood has ruined our society. Just like people don't fly up and back 12 feet when being shot with a 12 gauge shotgun in real life, officers do not purposely shoot people in the legs, arms, etc. on purpose. Under stressful situations, they are trained to shoot the largest target (center mass) and shoot to stop the threat. This particularly hits home for me, as we have lost three officers from two neighboring agencies in the last three months (two from the same agency in almost one month). All were shot. One was ambushed by a soldier with an M4 as he dismounted his motorcycle after stopping to help the guy thinking he was a disabled vehicle on the side of the interstate, one checking a suspicious vehicle, and the most recent a few days ago who also was checking on a suspicous vehicle not realizing that the POS had killed his pregnant girlfriend mere hours before. I often wonder what those officers were thinking/what they went through. As I suit up for yet ANOTHER funeral detail tomorrow, I am sure those thoughts will again be going through my mind. I am not here to convince folks that there are not unprofessional officers/poor excuses for officers out there, but of all the videos to scrutinize as to whether use of force was justified, this isn't the one. It is reassuring however, to see so many civilians recognize that and express that this was justified. Nice to see the whole country hasn't lost their minds!

RIP
Deputy JD Paugh, RCSO
Officer S. Richardson, Aiken DPS
Master Cpl. S. Rogers, Aiken DPS


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