# No Helper



## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Got bored so started fooling around to work secondary control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=077d9ASTrTs&feature=youtu.be


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## John Wolf (Dec 12, 2009)

Looks good Haz. I do very similar exercises to introduce the secondary obedience behaviors


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## Nick Hrycaj (Mar 30, 2014)

What do you guys mean by the term 'secondary'?


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Great job Haz


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## John Wolf (Dec 12, 2009)

Nick Hrycaj said:


> What do you guys mean by the term 'secondary'?


 When I say secondary, it is referring to the obedience that comes between the biting exercises. I consider "primary" obedience to be guarding w/o taking dirty bites and outing on command. Examples of secondary would everything in between that sets up the biting exercises (heeling, side and rear transports, etc..)

With that being said, I'm not sure "secondary" is the correct term. It was just the lingo that I learned when I started the sport and it has stuck.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks guys, ditto on the secondary obedience..lol never really thought to much about the meaning of that phrase.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

That was well cool 
Nice dog dude


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## Nick Hrycaj (Mar 30, 2014)

Right on. Thanks.

Where's the giant tug from?


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks , she is about 50/50 prey so the intensity isnt as high as I would like to see for the exercise in an ideal world.

Giant tug was from all-k9.com or some such website. I bought it when I was starting out, dont actually like it for bite work foundation as I think it can encourage dogs that are already prone to being chewy..jmo. Have seen some people use it for intro to leg bites though.


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

excuse the stupid question but arent you afraid the dog will end up looking right at the equipment while doing the revere in the blind? or is that the goal?


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Some dogs you have to work to keep from looking at the sleeve in the B&H. She is not one of them, if anything I am working on building more prey attraction to the equipment as she is very focused on the man and while it looks good during the BH the grip suffers which will cost me points. There is a part were I pick up the tug and have her do a BH on me. She looks me in the eyes the whole time.

Most dogs I have trained with even the prey nuts, know the difference between a sleeve on the ground and a sleeve on the helper.


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

What do you mean grip suffers? Thrashing? Too much fight? Or literally grip suffers cuz dog is in a defensive state of mind? 

Tough stuff trying to score high with a serious dog.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Some shifting and regripping caused by conflict and frustration. She has always preferred to push rather then pull and also likes to re grip. Not defence as she enters very fast centre of mass. Some of this is caused by me and some by genetics. 
Probably would have been a better dog for suit sports but no PSA close by.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Your grip problems may be coming from the confusion of the protection being part game, part obedience and part real. 

Also you might want to wean her of off giving both verbal and physical cues st the same time. You do it almost everytime you tell her something.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Christopher Smith said:


> Your grip problems may be coming from the confusion of the protection being part game, part obedience and part real.
> 
> Also you might want to wean her of off giving both verbal and physical cues st the same time. You do it almost everytime you tell her something.


 
Id agree that could be a possibility. However I have just recently started doing this type of thing within the last couple of months. Prior to this she was developed exclusively by helpers from 4 months on in protection grips, barking, very little control. The grip issues developed last summer as she started to come out of being exclusively prey driven in the work and started taking things seriously. 
Have started trying to make protection more fun and game oriented to see if I cant calm her a bit. Also using the game as a means to practise secondary control without the added stimulation of a helper present has transitioned nicely onto the field. Alternate between control for a bite and no control line bites is another thing we are doing too. 

I could go the direction of exclusively building on the aggression and getting her more set in that frame of mind but I dont think the end result would be conducive to sport. Don`t get me wrong I dont discourage the aggression but I have moved to more prey oriented work and less confrontational stuff until she calms down and loses some of the conflict. This was on the advice of her breeder.

I think with some time and work the grips will improve slightly but to a certain extent she is what she is and I have to work within those perameters. If I wasnt into IPO this wouldnt be much of an issue.


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## Luis Santana (Dec 29, 2013)

Haz Othman said:


> Got bored so started fooling around to work secondary control.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=077d9ASTrTs&feature=youtu.be


Nice outs on your dog! I like it. I do a similar thing with my pup.


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