# Dual Purpose Hunter



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

What breed do you think makes a good dual purpose hunting partner? I've often thought the black Lab to be my choice for upland game and waterfowl.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 4, 2012)

I've always hunted labs. They are pretty good all purpose upland dogs and are very good retrievers. Some even point when they reach maturity.


----------



## Charles Lerner (Sep 6, 2009)

http://pointinglab.com/

had always heard about these - not sure if they're mediocre at pointing and retrieving though.


----------



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

I thought this was going to be a thread about my versatility :-(. Never mind, carry on


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Hunter Allred said:


> I thought this was going to be a thread about my versatility :-(. Never mind, carry on


Someone...slap me!:-#
LOL, tell us more or show the vids. My Giant Schnauzer was a great hunter, Hunter...ducks and geese, dove and quail. The first thing he brought back was a Snow Goose shot on my farm and then he was hooked.\\/


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The "Continental" breeds as in GSP, Wiemar, Visla, etc were originally used as dual purpose hunters.
That included boar hunting, bear hunting, bird hunting, etc.
I hunted ground hogs and quail with my Kerry Blues.


----------



## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

Most of the time I've hunted behind labs. I think they are better suited for ducks in Minnesota. But on a South Dakota pheasant hunt I'd hunt behind a springer anyday. They will hunt circles around a lab in hot dry weather. Never seen a springer on a late season duck hunt, maybe they would be fine. Never shot so bad I needed to hunt behind a pointer, so I know nothing about those.


----------



## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

I did try to hunt a weimaraner in South Dakota once, but I ended up shooting more trying to break him off deer than at pheasants. Other than that he was a fun dog to hunt behind.


----------



## Billie Fletcher (May 13, 2013)

One of my friends hunts with a brittany, she is a very versatile dog. Lots of people with Viszlas use them for waterfowl, upland game and deer here.


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I have to throw my hat in for German Shorthaired Pointers. Knew a LEO who hunted with his and was the department's drug dog too.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> The "Continental" breeds as in GSP, Wiemar, Visla, etc were originally used as dual purpose hunters.
> That included boar hunting, bear hunting, bird hunting, etc.
> I hunted ground hogs and quail with my Kerry Blues.


 The Fila Brasileiro was imported by the Duke of Bavaria to hunt wild boar.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

The issue I have with pointers is that they range too far away. With quail being few and far between, I'm thinking waterfowl X dove for a dog...again, I go back to the Lab.:-?


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Deutsch Drahthaar and jagd terrier.


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard Gaines III said:


> The issue I have with pointers is that they range too far away. With quail being few and far between, I'm thinking waterfowl X dove for a dog...again, I go back to the Lab.:-?


Yeah, they can range pretty far out. Of course, you could always get a mule to follow on. :lol: 
With what you want to hunt Labs would probably do well for you.


----------



## Tony Hahn (May 28, 2011)

I learned some about the Deutsch Drahthaar on another forum. Apparently the German Wirehaired Pointer and the Deutsch Drahthaar are somewhat like the Show GSD and Working GSD with the Deutsch Drahthaar being a serious all around working (hunting) dog and the German Wirehaired Pointer having been 'Americanized' with less overall working ability.

From info posted (which must of course be taken with a grain of salt), in addition to having less overall drive and intensity, the Americanized version (GWP) has also been bred to become more of a bird dog while the DD remains a hunter of both game and fowl. 

The The Deutsch Drahthaar sounds like a versatile all around hunting dog. if I were in the market for a hunter, I'd certainly include it on my short list of dogs to research and consider.


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I see a pattern with Germans, they seem to like versatile jack of all trades kind of dogs. Alot of people like specialized dogs.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The Wiemaraner was bred to be a close worker when hunting birds. The one I had wasn't a big ground covering dog. 
I think most of the big ranging Pointers are more about the trial dogs. The old guy that helped start me in dog training hunted with a Pointer and the man was always on foot. 
This was back in the 50s and further back also so finding something like that may be difficult. No real idea though.


----------



## Tony Hahn (May 28, 2011)

Ben Thompson said:


> I see a pattern with Germans, they seem to like versatile jack of all trades kind of dogs. Alot of people like specialized dogs.


It does seem that way. The Dobermann appears to be one of the few exceptions.


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Tony Hahn said:


> I learned some about the Deutsch Drahthaar on another forum. Apparently the German Wirehaired Pointer and the Deutsch Drahthaar are somewhat like the Show GSD and Working GSD with the Deutsch Drahthaar being a serious all around working (hunting) dog and the German Wirehaired Pointer having been 'Americanized' with less overall working ability.
> 
> From info posted (which must of course be taken with a grain of salt), in addition to having less overall drive and intensity, the Americanized version (GWP) has also been bred to become more of a bird dog while the DD remains a hunter of both game and fowl.
> 
> The The Deutsch Drahthaar sounds like a versatile all around hunting dog. if I were in the market for a hunter, I'd certainly include it on my short list of dogs to research and consider.


 

This is both true, false, and somewhat misleading. Both are the same dog but if you take your Drahthaar through the NAVHDA testing program they will list it as a German Wirehair if you take it through the German testing system they list it as a DD. Take my current pup, he's listed as a Deutsch Kurzhaar - because the breeder follows the german system, but to the rest of the world - he's a German Shorthair. If I chose to test him through NAVHDA he's a GSP not a DK. But if you go to a DK breeder and call their dogs GSPs - well, them's fighting words. They feel they are a superior product. Whether that's true or not remains to be seen.
There was a long discussion on another forum how DKs were superior to the NAVHDA-tested GSPs. The stink of the matter was that it was "O.K." for Deutsch Kurzhaars to test and pass NAVHDA, be carried on their breed register but you could not take a NAVHDA GSP - do all the testing, x-rays, etc - passing all the same tests as their DKs and be carried on the DK breed registry. It was all one-way and lop-sided. So I see DK folks working from a smaller gene pool because they won't allow new blood in. I know DKs in Europe have some conditions that have not shown up in the US dogs yet. 

So if you pull from hunting lines be it the backyard breeder/hunter, NAVHDA or the Germany registry I think you will get a good hunting dog. What I have noticed is that if you pull from trial lines you get a dog with a HUGE working range whereas the NAVHDA and DK dogs tend to work much closer and are more attentive to the handler.


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Ben Thompson said:


> I see a pattern with Germans, they seem to like versatile jack of all trades kind of dogs. Alot of people like specialized dogs.


The story behind this (or so I was told) was that back in the day, you were taxed on the number of dogs. So while some could afford to have a dog that pointed, one that retrieved, and one that fetched on the water...... some couldn't and figured one dog should be able to do all that. Read a breed article on the German shorthair and there were thoughts. Form and function. One guy said that if you picked for function, then the right form will follow. Another said if you picked for form, they would be able to function just fine. As time went by, the guy who picked form didn't do very well. The guy who picked function first ended up being the main foundation of the breed.


----------



## Tony Hahn (May 28, 2011)

Sarah Platts said:


> This is both true, false, and somewhat misleading. Both are the same dog but if you take your Drahthaar through the NAVHDA testing program they will list it as a German Wirehair if you take it through the German testing system they list it as a DD. Take my current pup, he's listed as a Deutsch Kurzhaar - because the breeder follows the german system, but to the rest of the world - he's a German Shorthair. If I chose to test him through NAVHDA he's a GSP not a DK. But if you go to a DK breeder and call their dogs GSPs - well, them's fighting words. They feel they are a superior product. Whether that's true or not remains to be seen.
> There was a long discussion on another forum how DKs were superior to the NAVHDA-tested GSPs. The stink of the matter was that it was "O.K." for Deutsch Kurzhaars to test and pass NAVHDA, be carried on their breed register but you could not take a NAVHDA GSP - do all the testing, x-rays, etc - passing all the same tests as their DKs and be carried on the DK breed registry. It was all one-way and lop-sided. So I see DK folks working from a smaller gene pool because they won't allow new blood in. I know DKs in Europe have some conditions that have not shown up in the US dogs yet.
> 
> So if you pull from hunting lines be it the backyard breeder/hunter, NAVHDA or the Germany registry I think you will get a good hunting dog. What I have noticed is that if you pull from trial lines you get a dog with a HUGE working range whereas the NAVHDA and DK dogs tend to work much closer and are more attentive to the handler.


I don't foresee acquiring a hunting dog anytime in my immediate future, but I like learning about them.

What are your thoughts on the temperament differences between the DK and DD?

Is there validity to the claim that because hunters here (North America) use these kinds of dogs for birds much more often than for fur game; that generations of selection have made them more of a bird dog and less of a general purpose hunter?


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Tony Hahn said:


> I don't foresee acquiring a hunting dog anytime in my immediate future, but I like learning about them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the temperament differences between the DK and DD?
> 
> Is there validity to the claim that because hunters here (North America) use these kinds of dogs for birds much more often than for fur game; that generations of selection have made them more of a bird dog and less of a general purpose hunter?


I can't speak for the DD because I've never personally handled one but worked with some in Germany and I thought the work ethic very similar. But both love being with their human which some take to be clingy or velco-like. Some think the DD make stronger hunting dogs but I felt they performed equally.
As far as the other, yes, we hunt less fur here. But all my GSPs (even the pet kennel one) are quite sharp on small furry mammels. Tolerant of the barn cats but have killed several feral cats, groundhogs, possums, and *****.


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Sarah Platts said:


> The story behind this (or so I was told) was that back in the day, you were taxed on the number of dogs. So while some could afford to have a dog that pointed, one that retrieved, and one that fetched on the water...... some couldn't and figured one dog should be able to do all that. Read a breed article on the German shorthair and there were thoughts. Form and function. One guy said that if you picked for function, then the right form will follow. Another said if you picked for form, they would be able to function just fine. As time went by, the guy who picked form didn't do very well. The guy who picked function first ended up being the main foundation of the breed.


For tax reasons I did not know that. I think most here are of the belief function over form.
Confrontation over conformation. 

By the way did you ever hunt with the Pudelpointer? I've heard they were good.


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I've never work with one or seen one outside of the NAVHDA magazine.


----------

