# Flinks



## Mike Scheiber

Check out this nasty old dog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjFQ0UbH224&feature=related


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## Terrasita Cuffie

I think one needs to be really careful about what they place on the internet as "training." Reminds me of the standing on the dog's tail to test how "focused" he is.

Terrasita


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## Mike Scheiber

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I think one needs to be really careful about what they place on the internet as "training." Reminds me of the standing on the dog's tail to test how "focused" he is.
> 
> Terrasita


His training is long past he is what he is and you cant train that.


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## susan tuck

I had a littermate to this dog's mother. This is a great video. Two pro's having fun.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

What is the pedigree on that dog ???


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## brad robert

the dog is in australia(if still alive) he is on the website from vonchienloup his pedigree says he is a yoschy vd dollenweise son out of a tiekerhook bitch.


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## Willaim Somers

You just don't see enough dogs like that . At 11 years old that is one geezer I wouldn't mess with! Thanks for posting the vid Mike.


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## Mike Scheiber

brad robert said:


> pedigree says he is a yoschy vd dollenweise son out of a tiekerhook bitch


Gee what a surprise there


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## susan tuck

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is the pedigree on that dog ???


Here ya go:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/420282.html


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## Al Curbow

Very nice dog! The training looked fine to me


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## ann schnerre

i thought it was awesome. what a great old boy. and BF thought so too, which says something...


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

Old dogs need to have fun too. That dog was having a good time. Very cool dog.

Julie


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## Emilio Rodriguez

I recently saw training drive and focus or grip something along those lines. It was a leerburg video with Flinks. Not the kind of training I'm interested in. I didn't think much of those methods. Seeing the vid in this thread makes me think even less of Flinks. Looks like a big show off to me playing to impress the spectators. I didn't see at all a point in what he was doing. First showing off how sleeve sure the dog is then tricking it and pulling his tail. For what? To make it more suspicious after showing off how prey oriented it is? My kind of dog would've let go of the sleeve and bit him in the hand if he were to grab the scruff like that. I don't care what this man does at other times, I don't like what I saw.


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## Jason Sidener

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> I recently saw training drive and focus or grip something along those lines. It was a leerburg video with Flinks. Not the kind of training I'm interested in. I didn't think much of those methods. Seeing the vid in this thread makes me think even less of Flinks. Looks like a big show off to me playing to impress the spectators. I didn't see at all a point in what he was doing. First showing off how sleeve sure the dog is then tricking it and pulling his tail. For what? To make it more suspicious after showing off how prey oriented it is? My kind of dog would've let go of the sleeve and bit him in the hand if he were to grab the scruff like that. I don't care what this man does at other times, I don't like what I saw.



You don't like it don't watch it. Flinks can work my dog ANY time


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## Emilio Rodriguez

You are a trusting soul LOL


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## Howard Knauf

You can't honestly watch one video and decide you don't like the man, can you? This is one minute time in this mans' career and he was working an old prey driven dog that was pretty solid. EVERY dog is different and from what I've seen of Flinks he can adapt to any situation. 

He can work my dog as well....I trust him too. At least I know he's not going to break my dog like some other so called trainers/decoys.


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## Emilio Rodriguez

Are decoys breaking dogs a prevalent problem? I kinda assumed that at this level of discussion we all know how stay away from that.


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## Gillian Schuler

What a great old geyser. I'd have love to have seen him in his heydey but, on the other hand, just shows you what a dog's got - he's got. And as for going for Flinks, if he weren't on the leash, he could have:-D 
I don't know Flinks but I interpreted it as his wanting to show off the DOG to the public and not himself.


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## Howard Knauf

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> Are decoys breaking dogs a prevalent problem? .


 Yes.. Any yahoo who puts on a sleeve thinks they are a decoy. I see bad decoying as much, if not more than good decoying. It aint just about jamming a dog or causing some other injury. It also hugely about how to read a dog to keep from shutting them down. It takes years of experience to read a dog well enough to be called a good decoy....or even a good handler.

And it doesn't have to be a prevalent problem. It only has to be a problem once. You can't reach this level with bad decoys. Who knows how many more good dogs could be out there but poor work by handler and decoy prevented it. Why, when you go to a club or police training do you only see one or two decoys for a bunch of dogs? Because it aint easy and few people have what it takes. They aint a dime a dozen in the vast majority of places.

BTW, Flinks knows enough about what he's doing that I don't think your dog could get him if grabbed by the scruff like Flinks did...muzzle is too short on Rotts, dog had a mouth full, and near impossible angle anyway.


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## Emilio Rodriguez

That would depend on how defensive the dog was in his work and how well the handler would hold the dog back on the switch. That was exactly my point; why bother doing that if the dog is in prey.

Good decoys are gold. Especially when you have a dog who needs a particular approach. I'll keep Flinks in mind when I want my dog's tail pulled. He is very fast.. I gotta' give Jack his jacket. But I don't think he's fast enough to get away with grabbing my dog's tail, or what's left of it LOL Are you sure it's not Bernard Flanks


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## Gillian Schuler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d73tfwfi4E

Well, he ain't no ignorant dude either......


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## Emilio Rodriguez

I rest my case the man's an egomaniac. Look at 2:40 minutes in the video. He almost shut that young dog down with that strong frontal approach and looks like he did it on purpose, making fun of the handler right from the start. Looks like he thinks Americans are all stupid. That young dog actually turned on real nice.


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## James Larkey

Gillian Schuler said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d73tfwfi4E
> 
> Well, he ain't no ignorant dude either......


Agreed. Bernhards past experience and achievement should demand a little more respect. 

http://www.b-flinks.de/en-uebermich-vita.php


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## Emilio Rodriguez

Howard Knauf said:


> BTW, Flinks knows enough about what he's doing that I don't think your dog could get him if grabbed by the scruff like Flinks did...muzzle is too short on Rotts, dog had a mouth full, and near impossible angle anyway.


I don't have anything more to say with regards to Flanks. Just wanted to point out that if you're really fast you work the dog with no sleeve in the way and the dog facing you.


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## Al Curbow

Emilio, Flinks forgot more about dogs than you or i know, lol.


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## Al Curbow

If you really want to learn hears the big secret for a protection dog...................It's all the dog! Not a lot of training needed!


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## todd pavlus

I don't see any egomaniac there, and even if there was, take one look at his resume, and he derserves to have it inflated a little. His ego probably isn't any bigger than emilio's, but I know his achievements are. Not to mention that foreigners do not speak the same english americans do, so it sounds different. I'm sure Berhnard hears about how great people's dogs are at every seminar he attends. At least he gave the dog the respect it deserves, with nothing but good things to say about him.


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## todd pavlus

I wonder who the breeder is for that Axle dog


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## will fernandez

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> I don't have anything more to say with regards to Flanks. Just wanted to point out that if you're really fast you work the dog with no sleeve in the way and the dog facing you.]
> 
> Interesting work the dog with no sleeve behind a glass window where only his head can stick out. Kind of like working a weak dog behind a fence so he has that barrier between the threat and himself. Then he can just drive off the threat with a display.


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## Guest

Al Curbow said:


> If you really want to learn hears the big secret for a protection dog...................It's all the dog! Not a lot of training needed!


I'm still trying to decifer what exactly Mr. Rodriguez _trains._

He posts occasional videos of agitation. It would indeed appear that the dog is focused on the man. Got it. The fit young male on the other end of the leash is much safer from attack now! As is his car.

Cool.


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## Emilio Rodriguez

It's such abstract stuff it doesn't have a name. I thought of packaging it nice and calling it something.. A nice foreign sounding kinda name, Tötunghund, french square, along those lines. I'll keep you posted on my progress.












Ohh wait! I think I got it.. DBMRH (Dog Bites Man Real Hard)







And outs too..


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## Jason Sidener

> Bernhards past experience and achievement should demand a little more respect


Couldn't agree more. The moderators on this board should be ashamed for allowing Emilio Rodriguez's disrespectfull posts to remain.


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## Guest

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> It's such abstract stuff it doesn't have a name. I thought of packaging it nice and calling it something.. A nice foreign sounding kinda name, Tötunghund, french square, along those lines. I'll keep you posted on my progress.


Eh...don't bother.


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## Connie Sutherland

Jason Sidener said:


> Couldn't agree more. The moderators on this board should be ashamed for allowing Emilio Rodriguez's disrespectfull posts to remain.


I agree, Jason.

Also, I'd like to point out that a PM will usually reach me pretty quickly.


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## Emilio Rodriguez

Disrespectful posts??? You got a man pulling a dog up off the ground by the tail. It's Bernard Flinks so it's OK???


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## Howard Knauf

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> I rest my case the man's an egomaniac. Look at 2:40 minutes in the video. He almost shut that young dog down with that strong frontal approach and looks like he did it on purpose, making fun of the handler right from the start. Looks like he thinks Americans are all stupid. That young dog actually turned on real nice.


 Well, now we know what you know (or don't know)....and that is you don't have the knowledge to be a good decoy, much less critique one. At 2:40 in that clip the dog was just fine (from what you could see of him)..He handled the frontal look just fine, and the whip is just a prop to a good dog. .that big ol wagging tail says he's fine. So does the nice bark and lunging at the end of the lead. No glass barrier there to break and injure the dog...it was all done in a safe manner. If you think your decoy is good then Flinks is God.

Will...my thoughts on the car work as well.


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## jay lyda

All I want I say on this is that in no way was the dog at 2:40 minutes even thinking about shutting down nor was he at any other time in the vid. Nice dog and the helper work suited the dog. I do not do HBs so I would rather see the dog jump on on the table to bite rather then guard. But that is what they do so I guess thats its ok.


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## Dwyras Brown

And he said Flinks has an ego.


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## Anne Vaini

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> Disrespectful posts??? You got a man pulling a dog up off the ground by the tail. It's Bernard Flinks so it's OK???


Because we all know the dog's tail is going to fall off if it gets pulled a little bit.  I 'spose that because I tested my dog's toddler-proofing by picking her up by her upper lip means that I'm an awful person. (I love my dog, but I'll have a dead dog before I'll have a scratched baby.)

Flinks is day and night different from me for puppy training. But what I've learned about grip training and drive building from watching video of his seminars is invaluable.


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## todd pavlus

Agreed, The drive, focus, grip video was the first video I bought, and personally it helped me alot for training my dog and any future dogs I purchase. You have to respect, anyone that has been to the bundesseiger multiple times, and is and active police k9 handler and does schutzhund with the same dog. Emilio's posts wreaks of jealousy. Maybe he's just trying to increase his post count???


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## Mike Scheiber

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> Disrespectful posts??? You got a man pulling a dog up off the ground by the tail. It's Bernard Flinks so it's OK???


Listen Ive watched your lame asses videos listened to your yackety yak and kept my mouth shut the crap your doing is nothing more than teasing pressure bite you call this dog training PFFFFT. I would love to see one of the dog you have trained do one static bite with out any agitation only on command or how about a call off that Rotty outs nice cause he ain't a happy boy on the bite.
If if you don't understand what Flinks is doing then pulling your head out of you ass isn't going to do much good you damn sure ain't going to wipe the shit out of your eyes.
There must be some urban boards that my be more impressed with your little video shows.


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## todd pavlus

Maybe he trais with Vanguard K9:-&


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## Bob Scott

Wish I had a dollar for every terrier I've pulled out of a fox/****/groundhog hole by the tail. 
That's why the old timers would leave "a handful of tail" when they docked their pups. 
Course I used that term way before I knew about old timers and hunting terriers.....but that's another story.


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## Konnie Hein

hahahahahahahahahah! Bob, you're hilarious!


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## Bob Scott

8-[ 8-[ 8-[ 8-[  :mrgreen:


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## Emilio Rodriguez

Bob Scott said:


> Wish I had a dollar for every terrier I've pulled out of a fox/****/groundhog hole by the tail.
> That's why the old timers would leave "a handful of tail" when they docked their pups.
> Course I used that term way before I knew about old timers and hunting terriers.....but that's another story.


Of course, you had a reason to grab the dog by the tail; get it out of the hole. The issue the way I see it is not if you're going to hurt the dog by doing it even though a GSD is a little heavier and differently built than a terrier. But in this case why is it being done in the first place.


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## Anne Vaini

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> Of course, you had a reason to grab the dog by the tail; get it out of the hole. The issue the way I see it is not if you're going to hurt the dog by doing it even though a GSD is a little heavier and differently built than a terrier. But in this case why is it being done in the first place.



Because with Flinks the measure of a good dog is "the dog never lets go" because he's training for full calm grip.

Like with other folks that measure a good dog by the dog always engaging and test it with stick hits.


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## Chad Byerly

Just $0.02... 
I saw this tail lift at the seminar here a year ago. It wasn't so "the dog never lets go". At least with the L.E.O. and his K9 at the Hondensport Ohio seminar, it was a surprise to make the dog distrust and angry/fight. To come at Bernard, and not to stay calm. What he does to this old dog *looks* the same. But I don't know.

I personally like it better when dogs are built up to go through anything and anyone, and aren't getting them because they got spooked once. But he is a very experienced and respected trainer, for sure. And I'll admit I might be misunderstanding the lesson in this. He was a nice guy to talk with, and he evidently knew Konrad Lorenz.


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## Mike Scheiber

Chad Byerly said:


> Just $0.02...
> I saw this tail lift at the seminar here a year ago. It wasn't so "the dog never lets go". At least with the L.E.O. and his K9 at the Hondensport Ohio seminar, it was a surprise to make the dog distrust and angry/fight. To come at Bernard, and not to stay calm. What he does to this old dog *looks* the same. But I don't know.
> 
> I personally like it better when dogs are built up to go through anything and anyone, and aren't getting them because they got spooked once. But he is a very experienced and respected trainer, for sure. And I'll admit I might be misunderstanding the lesson in this. He was a nice guy to talk with, and he evidently knew Konrad Lorenz.


Yeah if ya go to the data base there's a pick of the dog in his younger days doing a hold & bark the helper looks like Flinks my guess is there may be some history with Flinks and this dog??


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## James Downey

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> Of course, you had a reason to grab the dog by the tail; get it out of the hole. The issue the way I see it is not if you're going to hurt the dog by doing it even though a GSD is a little heavier and differently built than a terrier. But in this case why is it being done in the first place.


 
A so what!! what if flinks is being a litte silly and trying to show off. It does not make him a monster, or an animal abuser, or even dumb trainer. I do not even know the guy, nor do I care about him.

But Emilio you come here, as if you are the end all, say all of protection sports. I am sorry my friend you have not impressed many people here. Youe videos do not show much, in fact they look a bit silly. You know when Flinks is doing somethings to the dog, I have a few ideas why he may be doing them...when you show your vids...I wonder what the hell is going on. 

And Emilio if your training was so great...you'd be charging for it. Like Flinks does.


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## Chip Blasiole

I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts about how their dog would react to a helper/decoy engaging their dog as Flinks did with the tail grabbing (especially owners of GSDs.) Same for the 13 month old GSD who, on the surface did a nice B&H, but then clearly is very comfortable letting Flinks become the handler. With the 13 month old GSD, I realize he is still somewhat young, but he still looks like a prey based dog. The eleven year old dog goes back to some Tiekerhook lines, and Koos Hassing talks about breeding for social aggression. I'm not seeing much social aggression in GSDs, and I believe that on a discussion board a while back that Flinks was quoted as saying he was not seeing many GSDs with any aggression, other than predatory/prey aggression.


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## Michelle Reusser

My best guess is that "I" could get away with pulling my own dogs tail but I'm 99% certain he's spit the sleeve and have a go at Flinks, my TD or anybody else. Actually I think Flinks getting behind my dog would be a chore in itself because he doesn't like letting the helper out of site. He'll spit the suit/sleeve if they walk back up with any sort of intent or even if I circle around and go back to them.


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## Chris Michalek

Chip Blasiole said:


> I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts about how their dog would react to a helper/decoy engaging their dog as Flinks did with the tail grabbing (especially owners of GSDs.) Same for the 13 month old GSD who, on the surface did a nice B&H, but then clearly is very comfortable letting Flinks become the handler. With the 13 month old GSD, I realize he is still somewhat young, but he still looks like a prey based dog. The eleven year old dog goes back to some Tiekerhook lines, and Koos Hassing talks about breeding for social aggression. I'm not seeing much social aggression in GSDs, and I believe that on a discussion board a while back that Flinks was quoted as saying he was not seeing many GSDs with any aggression, other than predatory/prey aggression.



My rott got unsleeved focused in a hurry as soon as his nut sacked got yanked by the helper. Since that session, if you are a helper/decoy you're gonna get bit if you get too close and aren't fast enough while agitating him without equipment.


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## Emilio Rodriguez

If you're trying to piss off a dog or put suspicion in it grabbing the tail (if there is one) it is a safer alternative (for the decoy) than flanking. I prefer flanking as there is no confusion on the dog's part which way to react as there can be with a tail lift. On a finished dog of mine the dog will not allow the decoy to trick it in any way. Sneaking up behind it would be out of the question. So would psyching it out by pretending to offer food or yelling commands. If the decoy slips the sleeve or suit the dog is immediately reagitated civilly to focus back on the man. Granted all that is for protection work with a goal in mind.


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## James Downey

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> If you're trying to piss off a dog or put suspicion in it grabbing the tail (if there is one) it is a safer alternative (for the decoy) than flanking. I prefer flanking as there is no confusion on the dog's part which way to react as there can be with a tail lift. On a finished dog of mine the dog will not allow the decoy to trick it in any way. Sneaking up behind it would be out of the question. So would psyching it out by pretending to offer food or yelling commands. If the decoy slips the sleeve or suit the dog is immediately reagitated civilly to focus back on the man. Granted all that is for protection work with a goal in mind.


 
Again if this information was coming from a credible source we would be paying for it.


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## James Downey

Chip Blasiole said:


> I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts about how their dog would react to a helper/decoy engaging their dog as Flinks did with the tail grabbing (especially owners of GSDs.) Same for the 13 month old GSD who, on the surface did a nice B&H, but then clearly is very comfortable letting Flinks become the handler. With the 13 month old GSD, I realize he is still somewhat young, but he still looks like a prey based dog. The eleven year old dog goes back to some Tiekerhook lines, and Koos Hassing talks about breeding for social aggression. I'm not seeing much social aggression in GSDs, and I believe that on a discussion board a while back that Flinks was quoted as saying he was not seeing many GSDs with any aggression, other than predatory/prey aggression.


 
This is what is winning trials. Sporty dogs are winning. We all want the "real" dog...But I look at the dogs taking home the bacon and it's not the "real" dogs.


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## Chip Blasiole

Then it seems to me that some video of dogs getting their tail pulled after they bite the prey object, would be revealing about their temperament/working strengths.


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## Mike Scheiber

Chip Blasiole said:


> Then it seems to me that some video of dogs getting their tail pulled after they bite the prey object, would be revealing about their temperament/working strengths.


Very simple Chris said it reach in and grab something flank, tail, nutz simple. A dog worth 2 shits will figure it out in 2 sessions not to turn his back on the decoy. 
Now if you got a dog on a bite and you grab his nutz and he holds the bite and starts crush the bite and fight then you got your self a real dog.:mrgreen:
I think Flinks did a nice job showing what this old dog was made of the water dog didn't let go or move the grip grab tail dog outed turned to fight again on the grip Flinks top knots the dog dog keeps the grip no movement.
This would be the sort of dog I would like to have riding shotgun with me if I were a cop.


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## Matthew Grubb

If I could walk away from K9 with ¼ of Flinks’ talent as a decoy and ¼ of his ability to read dogs I’d be one happy camper!


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## Mike Scheiber

Matthew Grubb said:


> If I could walk away from K9 with ¼ of Flinks​’ talent as a decoy and ¼ of his ability to read dogs I’d be one happy camper!


 I seen Flinks a few years ago at Ed Frawleys he gave a good seminar he was a little full of himself but didn't find it distracting most of the Germans are.
How ever after a long days work it didn't take Bernard long to slip into something more comfortable Speedos!!! and into Eds hot tub and pool, OK I could deal with that.
Next came BBQ the mofo didn't put on a robe it was a hot summer evening but damn :-& thank god the skeeters got the best of him he finally got some cloths on Damn.
Cindy was a member of our club back then and Barnard's kid Michael was with him for the seminar she brought him to Mall of America shopping and then out to the club he worked dogs one night he wasn't to bad for a young pisser either. He must be a grown man by now.


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## Bob Scott

I saw Flinks at Ed's place 5-6 yrs ago. 
I do believe the "tail lift" was nothing more then a demo for show but those that know the history of Flinks and that dog Itor, know that being able to do that is HUGE with that dog. It shows the confidence and training put into Itor. He is one, seriously bad mofo of a dog. Chewed up more then one handler before Flinks got him.
I don't have to agree or even like the tail lift but just being able to do it is very impressive if you understand the history of the dog, Itor.


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## Christopher Jones

The dog in the video is Falko. He was bred in New Zealand and sold to Australia at about six months if I remember correctly. 
He was a very tough dog. He was not a great sport dog and usually lost a few points. But his owner Erda did a good job with him.
I saw him on a number of occasions.
The other thing to remember is that Flinks and Falko are old sparing partners. This seminar is the third time for both of them. On the first seminar Falko gave Flinks a big welcome to Australia by running into the bark and hold and just grabbing Flinks on the upper leg. Since that time both Flinks and Falko know each other well.
In regards to Flinks I have been to two of his seminars. He is typical German, and can be a little arrogent. I remember him yelling at a lady, who's dog he was working, saying that if she didnt do exactly what he asked the he "was not going to give her the sweet of his brow". This was infront of everybody.
This was the poor ladys first SchH seminar and she paid her $250 to come and learn what SchH was, instead she was degraded in front of the Audience. That was pretty low form. Infact I would say that this lady was infact PAYING him to give her the sweet of his brow.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I really enjoy the stories where he throws the leash over the branch and hangs his dog. I think he has figured out not to tell those stories. 

How is his new dog coming along ???


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## Jim Nash

I hope she got her monies worth in the end . I've never been to one of his seminars but have heard good things about him . 

I got his Building Drive and Focus video when I first got my partner . 2 year old handler aggressive GSD at the time . Not sure if it's genetics or his initial upbringing in Europe . I thought this would help with many things including our bonding .

Things went great for the first 2 weeks . I could of put on a clinic doing that stuff right up until my dog descided the best way to get the tug was by bitting my shoulder like I was wearing a bitesuit . We had a talk tried it a few more times and I kept getting bit . 

That goes on the list right below putting a prong collar on my dog if I want to get bit . Gotta love dog training .


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Why would you attempt to build drive with a dog that doesn't need building ???? Always curious. I also belong to the "game" casulty list.

When I first got Buko, I was curious as to wether or not I could use the "game" for his OB, and did the whole miss thing, and he came back and bit me in the stomach. I wasn't trying to build drive though, I was just seeing how stupid I could be, and get away with it.

I have heard tales of other dogs out there that do not find it amusing to have their tug jerked out of the way at the last second.


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## Konnie Hein

Add me and my Mal Riot to that list, Jeff. I watched Ivan's videos and decided "the game" would be fun to try with him. Turns out, not so much fun. Good thing my neighbor at the time was a doctor.


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## Jim Nash

Like I said Jeff , I thought it would help with bonding with the SOB . I thought wrong .


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Kinda lets you know what they are producing out there when the "game" is used with their dogs. LOL


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## Laura Bollschweiler

I've only met Flinks once, at a very small seminar a few months ago. What struck me about him was that he was a good people person too, so it's funny to read that he yelled at a woman. He read the people pretty well at that seminar. I didn't see him treat anybody in any way that they didn't need to be treated. I didn't get to see much of the protection training, but I could see that he got pretty riled up. Did he yell at the inexperienced woman during bitework? I have no problem with it if that's the case  

Laura


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## Dwyras Brown

Tried the game a couplemof times and got torn shirts for it. I guess I wasn't the only one doing it wrong.


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## Terry Fisk

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Did he yell at the inexperienced woman during bitework? I have no problem with it if that's the case
> 
> Laura


Same here Laura. Bernhard was at our club the following weekend and was wonderful with every participant. Arrogant, yes, funny, yes and his lecture and instructions were detailed. He worked each team within their capabilities and was great at coming up with solutions without conflict. We certainly got our $$$ worth and hope to have him out again.

Some handlers just can not or will not listen to instruction. In this sport I have no problem with a presenter making a strong point to get the handlers attention or refusing to work a dog if there is a good possibility of someone or a dog getting hurt or the handler's requests are unreasonable. Sure beats stopping the seminar and making a trip to the emergency room.


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## Christopher Jones

Terry Fisk said:


> Some handlers just can not or will not listen to instruction. In this sport I have no problem with a presenter making a strong point to get the handlers attention or refusing to work a dog if there is a good possibility of someone or a dog getting hurt or the handler's requests are unreasonable. Sure beats stopping the seminar and making a trip to the emergency room.


This was a woman who had NEVER done SchH before in her life. She was someone who was interested in doing it. She had learnt about it on the net and wanted train in it. So she paid her $250 and brought her GSD down from about 800 kms away from the seminar.
It had absolutley nothing to do with someone not listening to his instructions. It had to do with a green handler with a green dog not understanding why he wanted a tight leash here and a loose leash there. He didnt explain to her what he wanted her to do and why. And then you can imagine that she doesnt know what to do, then he starts yelling at her and then she gets more confused and embarrised, so he gets more hard on her. After she left the field she spent the next hour crying trying to explain to the other people there that she didnt know what he wanted and she came to the seminar to be taught what to do. 
Anyone who thinks this is acceptable by a SchH trainer who is being paid to offer a service is on crack.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Anyone who thinks this is acceptable by a SchH trainer who is being paid to offer a service is on crack.

Well there it is. You see the glowing reports from others, must be the crack. ****ing followers. He could have told them all they sucked donkey balls and they would have just stood there glowing swigging away at the jim jones special Kool-Aid. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Laura Bollschweiler

I had written out a post earlier but lost it. Bummer.

I'm sorry to hear that the woman had a bad experience. I find fault with the organizer of the seminar. If the woman was as inexperienced as you say, she probably shouldn't have been participating at the seminar. She should have been screened and encouraged to come and learn by observing first rather than participate. 

If you're referring to me, Jeff, as a ****ing follower, that's just funny!! =D> 

Laura


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So instead of learning the basics from the "guru" she should wait, and get the watered down version from someone else ??? #-o #-o 

Sort of a follower thing to say. Maybe you should rethink, as self diagnosis is seldom accurate. :-D


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## Christopher Jones

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> I had written out a post earlier but lost it. Bummer.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that the woman had a bad experience. I find fault with the organizer of the seminar. If the woman was as inexperienced as you say, she probably shouldn't have been participating at the seminar. She should have been screened and encouraged to come and learn by observing first rather than participate.
> 
> If you're referring to me, Jeff, as a ****ing follower, that's just funny!! =D>
> 
> Laura


The organizers were using this seminar to try and promote the sport of SchH in this country as well as educate the people who have been in it for awhile. 
They were lacking in dog numbers for the seminar so this lady brought her dog out with her. 
It was poor form.
I also think had she been a 25 year old blonde with a great body she would not have been yelled at :twisted:


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## Ian Forbes

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Why would you attempt to build drive with a dog that doesn't need building ???? Always curious. I also belong to the "game" casulty list.
> 
> When I first got Buko, I was curious as to wether or not I could use the "game" for his OB, and did the whole miss thing, and he came back and bit me in the stomach. I wasn't trying to build drive though, I was just seeing how stupid I could be, and get away with it.
> 
> I have heard tales of other dogs out there that do not find it amusing to have their tug jerked out of the way at the last second.


:lol: :lol: :lol: 

I thought it was just me. Smudge used to fall for it as pup, but now if she sees the tug or ball moving at the last minutes, she just bites my hand.......she's trained me well, because I don't do it anymore.


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## Laura Bollschweiler

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So instead of learning the basics from the "guru" she should wait, and get the watered down version from someone else ??? #-o #-o
> 
> Sort of a follower thing to say. Maybe you should rethink, as self diagnosis is seldom accurate. :-D


If I *were* a follower, don't you think I wouldn't want anyone to listen to anything someone else had to say? You're saying that a follower would prefer someone to learn something from a person that isn't who I'm following? Did you follow that?

All I did say was that participating in a seminar might not have been a good idea for her first introduction to the sport. Maybe just watching and listening would have been better for her first introduction. Can I say first introduction once more?

You're pretty quick to shout out "follower" which is strange because I don't think I commented on the man's training style at all.

By the way, where are your Mals from, Jeff?

Laura


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## Jeff Oehlsen

One is from Mike Ellis, and the other is from Lisa Maze.


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## Jim Nash

Jeff O ;
" I wasn't trying to build drive though, I was just seeing how stupid I could be, and get away with it. "

I can't believe I missed this statement . 

Jeff I think you got that down to a science .


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## Mike Scheiber

Unless I missed something the dog should have drive in order for the game to work. I use the game to channel, shape and think/train clearly in a high drive state.


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## Matthew Grubb

Christopher Jones said:


> It had to do with a green handler with a green dog not understanding why he wanted a tight leash here and a loose leash there. He didnt explain to her what he wanted her to do and why. And then you can imagine that she doesnt know what to do, then he starts yelling at her and then she gets more confused and embarrised, so he gets more hard on her. After she left the field she spent the next hour crying trying to explain to the other people there that she didnt know what he wanted.


 
Sounds like my basic training class….. and I turned out ok. :-D Like him as a person or not… he’s a great trainer and is one of the people on my “short list” to see… along with Ivan and Ellis.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: I can't believe I missed this statement . 

Jeff I think you got that down to a science . 

I cannot believe it either. People bore the living shit out of me. I leave shit like that lying around all the time, and no one picks it up and hits me in the eye with it. LOL

I just enjoy stupid people a bit too much. They have a great outlook on life for the most part, because they just don't see it. : ) ( Of course I am not saying you are stupid......)

One of the greatest times I have ever had with stupid people was a thread on Longwoods board where I was teasing them because they all were saying how tracking was so stinking important, and not one of them could come up with a reason why when I asked, or even why it was part of Sch.

I hit them with the Mals are smoking the GSD's bags, and they have no tracking at all in the ring sports.

That arguement has holes the size of rhode island in it, and they didn't see it. I tried to steer them to it, but they STILL couldn't see the giant ****ing hole in my arguement.

I always know I have won, when they tell me how stupid I am. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Unless I missed something the dog should have drive in order for the game to work. I use the game to channel, shape and think/train clearly in a high drive state.

OH those man killer asko kids. LOL The point was that my dog just would bite the hell out of me if I try and make him miss more than once. It is the difference between a dog that is trained to have a mean face, and a dog that is just gonna **** you up.

Sorry, just had to throw the smack down. : )


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## Erik Berg

About the flinks video, that taillifting maybe was a bit unecessary, why just not a light pinch if the goal is to get the dog to refocus on him? Besides that I keep me mouth shut, don´t know the man so will not judge him on that video alone.


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