# Different pressure from mondio vs french ring?



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

I know that the pressure is put on the dog by the decoy in FR and the environment in MR, but was looking for some deeper explanations. Do the mondio people believe the stress on the dog is equal, could a dog handle one well and not the other?


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

(also, I spent a lot of time searching through threads, but didnt see this addressed)


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

A good decoy can put a lot of pressure on a dog in MR as well. It isn't just the environment that the dogs have to deal with. In MR, the decoy is not allowed to strike the dog with the stick but must be able to come up with other means to impress the dog. When you see the dog reacting to the way the decoy presents himself, the results can be bad for the dog. I have seen good FR dogs do poorly in MR and the same can be said for MR dogs crossing over to FR. The better you prepare the dog for each individual sport, the better it will do.


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Couldn't agree more with what Tim said. I believe the pressure is about equal between the two sports just is used in different ways.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I don't see it as the same at all. You would need way more information about the FR dogs that crossed over before you could say what was what. Not only that, pressure is determined by the dog, not the decoy. The decoys job is to read the dog correctly. THere are dogs that feel it when you swing the stick, and dogs that could give a shit.

This is something that people should just toss the **** out of their heads, as it will always be determined by the individual dog, the training, and the amount of trials and level that the dog is being trained to.

I do believe that there is one thing that FR will always have that Mondio does not, and that is the dog just not wanting to get hit again. 

Mondio will always have the ability to have weird un-nerving stuff on the field during times that the dog is not working in drive. It is different, but something to be dealt with on a dog to dog basis. There is no general this is more or less.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> it will always be determined by the individual dog, the training, and the amount of trials and level that the dog is being trained to.


I agree with Jeff. The sport between the two that puts more pressure on the dog, is the one the dog has the most issues with. A dog with environmental issues is probably going to have more problems in MR, a dog with social issues is probably going to have more problems in FR. Probably, not always. 

I've seen multiple dogs with stick issues in FR (chased or held off) cross over into MR and do fine, titling and even winning in trials. But I've also seen FR dogs that were fine in FR cross over into MR and get wiggy about the environmental stuff.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

So why did they take the stick out of Mondio? You can still use a stick and also have the environmental distractions. 
Also do you find having multiple decoys in Mondio makes any difference?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The stick was never in Mondio.

Yes, you can use a stick and have environmental distractions, it is called Belgian ring.

Yes. it makes a difference.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The stick was never in Mondio.
> 
> Yes, you can use a stick and have environmental distractions, it is called Belgian ring.
> 
> Yes. it makes a difference.


I thought it was in the first incarnation of Mondio when it was done in the 80'? I'll have to go back and watch big Ed's video again, which isnt too bad as theres no talking during it. lol


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## Olga Sukonnikova (Apr 16, 2009)

Good article - 
Evolution of the Mondioring Decoy: http://www.friendsofthefamily.info/Site/Decoy_Evolution.html Though maybe not what Matt was looking for, sorry.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Yes. it makes a difference.


So by adding the second decoy, what sort of issues does it throw up typically from what you have seen? 
Thx


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

I would agree with you Jeff 100% but I think to generally explain to someone the amount of pressure one should expect to be given the answer would be they are about equal. Of course each dog has their own individual strengths and weaknesses and one who is getting involved in each sport should be aware of the motive behind the decoy and should understand where there dog is at in order for them to succeed. I would still say the pressure is about equal just exhibited in different areas.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Amanda, I could give a shit if you agree with me or not. You don't have enough experience to be answering these types of questions, and should sit them out.


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

I am experiencing both sports so I do have knowledge on them, maybe not as much as the great Jeff O. One day I will be there, you got many many many many years on me. But I don't mind taking shit either  have a great day and hope you get your answer here Matt


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Who are you training with ??


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: So by adding the second decoy, what sort of issues does it throw up typically from what you have seen? 

You are doing KNPV stuff, so I don't think there is a defense of handler. Give it a try.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Shame they dont have Belgian here, muzzle work seems important and great to watch


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