# Stupid Dog!



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I think it's a hoot when "accomplished" trainers blame the dog for training issues. There are the endless amounts of training tools and techniques used to make the job "easier." Funny thing about teaching, it is never easy. Do it for a living and on every level under the sun and you will see what I mean. There are the short attention spans, no attention, and "the light just never comes on."

I went into the local Petsfart store and watched these "Master Trainers" at work...what a hoot. First, they are behind a glass wall and the puppy people are all gathered around someone who looks like they can even spell, "dog." They are eating every word up as if it came from the Bible. They sit in chairs rather than stand and interact with the dog. The instructors mutter every word spoken (SPEAK UP) and they act like the thing being done was a new or great training technique. Some of the owners don't have a clue...

Then there are the Lab folks who train with the skills of a high school wresting coach...Again, whistle in their teeth, words that no one can understand, and hand signals that can only be taken from 3' away. Now comes the stupid dog. The dog can't see the *back signal* because it is a pushing motion from the center of the chest, nice. How can the dog see that from 100+ yards away? Whistle in the teeth and no verbals coming from the mouth, just grunts! The dog looks like it could hide.

Before blaming the dog for not taking instruction and for being stupid, do a check. 1. OPEN the mouth and speak clearly! 2. Use hand signals that can be seen and understood from a distance. 3. Treat the dog as if they are a kid trying to learn and for the first time. 4. Lastly, break steps down into small learning pieces so success can come a little at a time. If some of these "Master Trainers" ever made it into the public educaton classrooms, the kids would riot and test scores would hit all new lows! :-o 8-[ :?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What about the trainers that brag about their dog having "real bites" and then come to find out they were training accidents. Man these trainer types blow.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I'll say this about PetSmart trainers. I used to look down at all of them until I saw two of them who had actually competed in schH on a national level. Of course it was due to them losing their jobs but I would be a little less wary about the trainers these days. There is also one gal that come out to train with us, her experience is as a petsmart trainer and she's a very good handler and trainer. So they are out there... maybe keep an eye out for the pimply ones...


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

OK Chris you got me there. Nice to see a post worth reading...pimply, I'll pass, nope...run like hell!8-[


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

One of my handler's moonlights at a local Petsmart. Actually, she's in demand. She enjoys it. There's very little stress, but then she really is a pretty good trainer.

DFrost


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I have a stupid dog. I don't consider this a training issue so much as a temperment issue. My labX is low drive and slow to grasp new concepts. He also has HD, so doing anything quickly is hard for him. Doesn't matter, he is my pet, I ask very little of him and he is easy to live with. But gosh, he's dumb as a stump sometimes!

My brief experience with taking my Mal to pet obedience sucked. Was it the trainer, or my attitude? I was stunned at the level of cluelessness of most of the other 'handlers' in the class. Many could barely follow instructions. One dog relieved himself in every class. (This was indoors.) Huge range of dogs, from my crazy ass Mal to a super laid back Bernese Mtn dog. It must be frustrating for the trainer, but then again, they get paid for this and I paid a lot of money to learn very little. And it wasn't nearly as much fun as I'd hoped it would be.

And the reason for my attitude - being told in class 1, "you're going to have problems with that dog" Really helpful, really insulting. Way to make me want to come back.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Leslie if you walk this planet long enough, you will find people who WANT to steal your joy. Be one step ahead of the dumba$$es! Don't give them the pleasure of stealing your joy... Now get back to training! LOL


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Quote; Max Von Stephanitz
"Let the trainer examine himself when the dog makes a mistake, or does not understand the exercise, or fails in obedience and let him ask "Where am I at fault".

We have this printed on some of our club training shirts.

The hair on my neck stands straight up when I hear "stupid dog", "stubborn dog", "he knows better", yadda yadda. 
Hell, I was getting riled up when I first read Howard's title to this post. :lol:

My younger GSD Trooper has a totally different training curve then the older one, Thunder.
That's on me to figure out the course to take with him. No frigin way is he "stupid", "dumb", "stubborn". etc. He's just different from my other dog.

The qualification needed to train at Petsmart is nothing more then a written exam. 
There are some very good instructors there and some (more) completely usless trainers there.
The good ones were good before they got to Petsmart. The usless ones will probably be usless forever!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

It's ok its not just the stupid trainers faults .. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...id-as-we-breed-them-for-looks-not-brains.html


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> It's ok its not just the stupid trainers faults ..
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...id-as-we-breed-them-for-looks-not-brains.html


 
Although I've had some really nice AKC obedience competition dogs out of show lines, there "IS" a good reason we select our GSDs out of working stock! :grin:  
I think the greatest loss in show dogs is their breed specific instincts developed/bred in them for years. I also believe thay can still "learn" easily. I't just a matter of finding the right aproach in their training. Maybe not in their breed specific field of expertise but definately in basic obedience and manners.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Report author Kenth Svartberg said:


> said the changes had happened over the course of *just a few generations.*
> "Modern breeding practices are affecting the behaviour and mental abilities of pedigree breeds as well as their physical features," he said.


Case in point ... Look at the Malinois from the latest Westminster show. 

http://video.westminsterkennelclub.org/player/?id=1002862 

Then look at a picture of Matt Grubb's PSD or Jeff Oehlson's Buko. They don't even look like the same breed anymore. To me that's a bad thing!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

When I train, I use the word stupid quite often. Sure, I'm generally referring to the handlers but hey, they at least have the opposable thumbs. they just don't seem as smart as the dogs. 

DFrost


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## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

When I'm cursing someone saying "Stupid" it is usually me I'm referring to.
Geoff -not Westminster - just don't do that to a person! I think it is fine if people want to have a line of just pet whatevers - most people with pets I know could not handle my kind of dog and would not want it. They basically want a rug with benefits. I was waiting for a flyball class to start (yes I do fluff training too - sometimes) and someone was asking me about Mako who has a fat pit bull skull from all the upper body bitework we used to do. I explained what she was - and let them know she was working line because everyone there loved her drive and her level of obedience and this woman from the show handling class said "oh, but we don't distinguish between show and working line in belgians because they can do everything" - I'm sure my face said it all. I definitely think the brains are being bred out of pet/show types - all you have to do is meet the average block headed, heavily coated golden retarded to know that.
Sam


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## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

Same thing with riding horses. My first horse was old - that way i knew if something was going wrong it was my fault.

Generally speaking - if someone tells me a horse "ran off" or bucked them off - i blame it on the rider. Everyone thinks they're a good rider - and don't need no damn lessons.

One girl told me she wouldn't ride horses because they'll just run off on you and i told her that she had probably asked the horse to run off. She looked at me with incredulity and said, "how does that happen?"

You gripped with your legs - that's how!! Learn riding theory - idiot!!!!!!!!!!

i always defend the animals.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Hey Reed good point, having been on a horse and know the front from the back. Well said!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

When I was a kid, the Irish setters I knew were smart, and easy to train. I read about all the "bench" and OB champions that were out there.

A buddy of mine's mother always had one. I think the last one she got I was in about 8th grade, and she sold the dog. I asked her why, as that was not something I would expect from her, and she said it was "the dumbest thing she had ever seen."

I cannot believe I clicked on the westminster link. Abominations. However, the influence of "show dogs" in the Irish setter breed is a good example of taking a dog that is multi-faceted and destroying all that is good......but the looks.

There are dumb dogs out there, don't kid yourself.


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ....
> There are dumb dogs out there, don't kid yourself.


 
I met some over the weekend. I think their handler wore off on them. :-k :-#


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