# Black Malinois=Black Dutchie?



## Martin Doan (Jul 27, 2011)

I see lots of people that have Black Mals and lots of people have Black Dutchies. I'm just thinking, are they the same? How do one determine if their dog is a Black mal or black dutchie? I maybe getting a pup that is Black mal bred to DS. And if I got a black pup, what do I call it? a Black Mal-chie?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Martin Doan said:


> I see lots of people that have Black Mals and lots of people have Black Dutchies. I'm just thinking, are they the same? How do one determine if their dog is a Black mal or black dutchie? I maybe getting a pup that is Black mal bred to DS. And if I got a black pup, what do I call it? a Black Mal-chie?




If the dog eats poop, buckets and it's handler aggressive, it is a black dutchie. You may have to wait til it's older to see all the traits.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

As there is a pure black in the Belgian Shepherds and not the Dutch Shepherds they are called Black Malis and also they were first brought about by Groens been bred to Malis, thus giving a short black coat dog, ie black mali.
If its brindle its a Dutchie, if its short fawn its a Mali, if its short black its a Black Mali. 
Thats what most people go by, but if someone else wants to call it something else its up to them, but I am not going to accept a pure black dog as a DS nor would any of the breed clubs who still have open stud books.


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## Martin Doan (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh I see. Cuz I see some breedings with breeders listing their studs as "black ds". I guess those are red flags to beware of those breeders


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

They probably mean the base coat is black with fawn or tan brindling instead of a fawn or red base coat with black brindling - essentially what in other breeds is known as "reverse brindled".


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Reverse brindle doesnt exisr ;-)


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

I have one. You call it a mutt.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Martin

If your dog has a FCI pedigree it's a black Mal
If not, it's a illegitimate black bastard Dutch Shepherd and is much more desirable for protection training. ;-)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Martin Doan said:


> I see lots of people that have Black Mals and lots of people have Black Dutchies. I'm just thinking, are they the same? How do one determine if their dog is a Black mal or black dutchie? I maybe getting a pup that is Black mal bred to DS. And if I got a black pup, what do I call it? a Black Mal-chie?


One of the dogs in my last class appears to be all black. The vendor, jokingly told me it was a Dutchie. I asked him how he figured that. He said, if you get the dog in the sunlight, you can see a couple of small spots on it's side. He was right, when the light hits her just right you can see them. The dog record does say Dutchie/mix. ha ha. She's a little small and is going to be a good drug dog. Probably will make patrol dog as well, but I'll have to wait until probably February to find out for sure. 

DFrost


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Reverse brindle doesnt exisr ;-)




Selena what do you mean doesn't exist or is called something else? In both boxers and English. Bull terriers that's what they call a dark dog with lighter striping in lieu of the lighter dogs being striped with darker lines. So what do dutchie folks call em?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Laney Rein said:


> Selena what do you mean doesn't exist or is called something else? In both boxers and English. Bull terriers that's what they call a dark dog with lighter striping in lieu of the lighter dogs being striped with darker lines. So what do dutchie folks call em?


Brindle is brindle. There is just a higher concentration of dark, but stil brindle.


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## Chris Jones II (Mar 20, 2011)

Thomas Barriano said:


> illegitimate black bastard Dutch Shepherd


I like this a lot... definitely tell people it is this, verbatim.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Dave Colborn said:


> Brindle is brindle. There is just a higher concentration of dark, but stil brindle.


Yep. What dave said.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Martin
> 
> If your dog has a FCI pedigree it's a black Mal
> If not, it's a illegitimate black bastard Dutch Shepherd and is much more desirable for protection training. ;-)


No black mals with fci peds, black in the x mals comes from a groenendaler andor v ijsselvloed who was several times knpv champ in the 70 's


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## Martin Doan (Jul 27, 2011)

Awesome thanks guys. I'm thinking of getting One, the dad is Black mal and the mom is dutch. a few of the pups are black and some are dark brindle. but.. is it true they have issues of eating poop and are handler aggressive like Dave Colhorn said?


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

did you think you were going to get those impressive high flying entries without paying a price for it? what next, a 1000 horsepower car with smooth suspension and 50 miles per gallon?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Martin Doan said:


> Awesome thanks guys. I'm thinking of getting One, the dad is Black mal and the mom is dutch. a few of the pups are black and some are dark brindle. but.. is it true they have issues of eating poop and are handler aggressive like Dave Colhorn said?



Martin. They are like any other breed. There are good ones and bad ones. Good luck. I had a poop eating dutchie. He was a good house/watch dog though. His mother had no teeth from eating buckets.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Eating poop, here not. Handleragressive, if they feel mistreated or dared: yes.


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## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

My patrol dog was an ass eating Dutchie that weighed 88 lbs. He bit lots of guys, including me. He was my first dog....lots of painful rookie handler mistakes. After he retired, I got one of his pups. 180 degrees of his dad. Super social, loved kids, but still a dutchie. But he did destroy everything in sight. Many a sprinkler head met their demise in my backyard..........

In my same basic handlers course we had what we were told was a small black mali....but now that I've been in the K9 field and I'm pretty sure this guy was a Groenendale (sp). One of the best dogs I've seen too. 

I get all confused with the whole DS/Mali breedings etc. But to me, if it's brindle..it's a DS.


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## Martin Doan (Jul 27, 2011)

Cool, one breeder told me that he had been breeding and crossing mals and DS for 10 years and they either come out mal or DS, never mixed. So i was just curious how the Black mal came into play. Wow seleena knows almost everything. Now that's really knowing your breed. 

Dave, their may not be 1000 hp cars that have 50 mpg but there are those like the lotus and the tessla that have high MPG ratings and can get around a track just as fast if not faster.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Martin Doan said:


> Wow seleena knows almost everything. Now that's really knowing your breed.


i grew up in knpv and breeding, i have an advantage...and acces to a lot of info ( also the not so public).


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## Carmen van de Kamp (Apr 2, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> No black mals with fci peds, black in the x mals comes from a groenendaler andor v ijsselvloed who was several times knpv champ in the 70 's


There are a few black mals with FCI pedigrees, I know at least of 1 bred by Arracks home I believe & on a Belgium board was also one with a FCI papered black Malinois, bred in Holland.
But they (probably, "of course" not visible on the pedigree) also come over GR lines like Andor vd Ijsselvloed. 

Furthermore, if you use xDS lines with mainly DS behind it I would call it a black xDS, coming from Mal lines it will be a black xMal ;-)


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

this thread reads like every typical show dog conversation - don't become what you say you hate.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Martin Doan said:


> Cool, one breeder told me that he had been breeding and crossing mals and DS for 10 years and they either come out mal or DS, never mixed. So i was just curious how the Black mal came into play. Wow seleena knows almost everything. Now that's really knowing your breed.
> 
> Dave, their may not be 1000 hp cars that have 50 mpg but there are those like the lotus and the tessla that have high MPG ratings and can get around a track just as fast if not faster.



What?


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