# Pup age for bonding?



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm not too happy with the title but I would like to know from others at what age they thought the pup had really bonded with them.

We had to take my father back to England by car and he wouldn't fly (wings missing or summat).

Okay, I had a 5 month old Briard and a 12 yr old Landseer that I was fortunately able to park with the Briard's breeder for the 5 day round trip.

When we returned, I phoned the breeder and asked if we could meet at the train station so as not to disturb my old Landseer before Toni (husband) came to pick us up.

I literally fell from the clouds as my 5 month old pup greeted me as a nice "'lil lady"" but not more. We hid in the woods and he scented out the breeder, not me.

This dog resorted to true (or not?) when I took him home and became the best all round dog I ever had but was I his "second" owner?

I left England when our Jack Russell pup was 8 months' old (she was "mine" from the word go and a few months later when we visited England she nearly "ate" me alive.

Is there an age when pups remember owners? 

I do know that pups / dogs find it easier to latch on to new owners, more so than we can but would be interested in hearing your experiences.


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

My GSD pup started bonding around 9-10 weeks of age when he learned sit and look, at 12 weeks he was doing good on recalls where I handed his leash to someone else, walked 10-20 paces away and called (4 months old now). My older GSD on the other hand, has a better bond with my wife even though I exercise/train/feed him (traitor)! These dogs are picky and usually prefer one person over another.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I think you're right, the majority of my dogs would bond with my wife, but there were some that wouldn't. Didn't so much matter "whose dog" it really was. I don't think age overly matters so much, just like your own age doesn't when you do find one you especially connect with.

I've been plodding my way through a very long thread at LB, where Jenni Williams and others reaffirm the notion that a strong bond with the handler may take "a couple years" for the dog to "work for the handler". Wherever did that idea come from?

You bond from the get go, and it doesn't take overly long at all, depending on the dog, and yourself. Once their world slows down a bit, from the change in immediate environment, and basic daily routines are absorbed, it shouldn't take long at all to find that connection, _if there's one to be made._


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Daryl Ehret said:


> ... You bond from the get go, and it doesn't take overly long at all, depending on the dog, and yourself. Once their world slows down a bit, from the change in immediate environment, and basic daily routines are absorbed,* it shouldn't take long at all to find that connection*, _if there's one to be made._


Even from someone whose dogs have all been "pre-owned" and presumably pre-bonded (with others), I agree with you 100%.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_QUOTE: I do know that pups / dogs find it easier to latch on to new owners ..... END_

And it's a good thing!


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Even from someone whose dogs have all been "pre-owned" and presumably pre-bonded (with others), I agree with you 100%.


 
Ditto with Daryl and Connie!
I will also add that many people would get depressed to see how fast their dog will change loyalties when handed over to a new owner. 
The K9 folks often get a dog at 2+ yrs old and have a great career together after just a very short time in bonding.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I know there's some nonbelievers out there, (Jeff, I'm thinking of you) who believe that a dog will work for any other reward but not simply for it's handler. To me, this implies that their dogs are too self-interested, but of course still trainable. Sure, a ball/tug or whatever may sometimes seem like a reward when in some dog/handler relationships it's for the most part a communication aid.

My dog is certainly rewarded by the toy and likes it as do I, but oftentimes it's not a necessity at all. I could replace it with a paperclip with equal effect, or nothing at all once the routine is established. By this point, oftentimes no object at all is required to teach a totally new skill, because the language subtleties have been familiarized, though the bond is not necessarily stronger.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

The pup (Briard) that didn't know me after 5 days at his breeders would've worked for a paper clip, too. His grandmother just wanted to work, too. Even heeling, it didn't matter what, as long as she was working.

Communication with him was fantastic - one fault, he was often too previous - my fault for not pausing between one command and the next? 

I think however, he would have worked for others if given the chance, even if I was around. He certainly shot off with Toni for a walk without a backward glance whereas my Landseer wouldn't leave the house without me, willingly.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

_" one fault, he was often too previous"_

By that, do you mean he'd anticipate your commands, and act prematurely? That is something I contend with at times, myself.

Hutch would not work for anyone else for a long time. Then became more open to it around a year & half age, with me present, and would give them equal attention for a routine we were working on. I can see he's a slight uncomfortable the few times he's taken direction from someone else, and relieved when back to me.

But still to this day, he's not very engaging toward other people, hardly notices they're even there, sometimes shrugs them off if he's directly addressed by them.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

By that, do you mean he'd anticipate your commands, and act prematurely? That is something I contend with at times, myself.

Exactly.

In IPO the dog has to come in front and not as I had taught him to come into "Fuss" in working trials (Swiss Schutzund). An experienced international judge, said "why call him "Fuss" afterwards. Finish the exercise in "Here".

I think, here, I should have persevered and not taken the short-cut as advised.

Strangely enough, my 2 GSDs are fast but not "previous". They listen to each command, exactly, unlike the Briard who would start if I sniffed, spoke to the judge, or uttered some sort of sound.

I once gave a Swiss German command to one of the GSDs to start gobbling his food and he looked at me and waited until I said OK.

Toni calls my "wait until I say "OK" " exercises circus acts but, they have stood me in good stead with these two up to now.

Buster waits until he gets the command to go to the hide and before he jumps in or out of the car as does the little one.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I've seen a lot of variety in bonding times and I'm not sure it has a whole lot to do with age. I've had dogs here for petsitting that will bond to me right away, others are depressed and withdrawn for a week. I've had rescue dogs that took weeks to settle in and begin to bond. Some never did. I can think of a select few that bonded to me immediately.

What factors do you think influence bonding? (Besides the 6 - 12 week age)


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I think you are overlooking one important factor here, you left the pup with his breeder. As a breeder myself I have sometimes been amazed at just how well my pups remember me. I hear stories all the time from owners of dogs I haven't seen since they were 8 weeks old, and they are now 2 or 3 years old, that they watched a YouTube video and when my voice came on giving commands to one of the other dogs, their dog raced to the computer, cocking it's head and trying to figure out where the voice was coming from, even though it routinely ignored other videos, the TV, etc. The same thing has happened when I've seen a pup for the first time after a year or two, or 3, whatever. 99% of the time (there always is that 1% though LOL) as soon as they hear my voice and hear "puppy puppy" they are greeting me like a long lost friend, even the ones who aren't very social with people outside of the family. I think there is a lot of imprinting that is going on with a pup and it's breeder between birth and 8 weeks, especially when they are being handled every day.

As far as bonding in general, I agree with this statement.



> You bond from the get go, and it doesn't take overly long at all, depending on the dog, and yourself. Once their world slows down a bit, from the change in immediate environment, and basic daily routines are absorbed,it shouldn't take long at all to find that connection, _if there's one to be made._


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I've adopted two senior rescue dogs (Rottweiler and Siberian husky/Rottweiler cross) at 9 and 8 years respectively and both bonded quite quickly. Elsa the Rottie like within a few days to me and Buck to my husband within about 2-3 weeks, if I recall. My rescue Malinois is probably the most bonded to me and I got her at around 2.5 years of age. Fawkes, who I got at 8 weeks, is a close second.

Kadi, I tried playing one of your videos when Fawkes was out of the room and he didn't come running, sorry! I am considering driving instead of flying out to San Diego for Comic Con on the 25th, so I may bring him with if I do. ;-)


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm with Kadi on the breeder part. My pups ALWAYS remember me and it can be months or years. And as much as their owners may hate it, they will choose me over them. When I watch them compete I'm not allowed to talk and they said me laughing is the worse. They seem to especially pick up on that. You have to remember the breeder imprinted them. They don't forget it. My GSDs bond to me very early. At 16 weeks, Ingrid wouldn't acknowledge someone else calling her name and she was fairly social. Generally by 6-9 months, they are a one person dog. Sometimes like Daryl says they choose someone else in the family. My corgi Maia was gaga over hubby. As far as she was concerned she was his dog and I trialed her. I don't know that I've ever thought of whether the pup is bonded or not. I know when I've gotten older dogs I decided that it took them several months to bond to me to the point I no longer thought they were waiting to go home.

Terrasita


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Kadi, I tried playing one of your videos when Fawkes was out of the room and he didn't come running, sorry! I am considering driving instead of flying out to San Diego for Comic Con on the 25th, so I may bring him with if I do. ;-)


LOL He must be in that 1%  I hope you do drive out, would love to see him again. And you to of course :lol:


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Kadi, I realise this, and although an independent, uninterested in any but the immediate family dog, he always greeted the breeder effusively, plus he went "back home". I helped her rear this litter and saw him from shortly after the birth a few days a week until I took him to our home at 8 weeks.

Maybe, if he had been a few months' older than 5 months when I left him, he wouldn't have "forgotten me". It's not so important but I've often wondered about this. I think, too, the imprinting with the breeder, home, etc. plays a big part.

Having been the centre of his little life for 3 months I was gob-smacked when he ignored me in the woods and raced after the breeder :lol:


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Gillian if you want your pup to *bond* with you, try shoe maker's glue! :-$ Stuck and never lose'em!!!


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Howard, you ain't not got a glue!!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok, so I guess I was addressed, sorta. I have had some pups that bonded to the point where I didn't count anymore, and prefer that. However, they were few and far between.

I do not care for a dog that won't work for just anyone. I have had them in the past, and the problem is that you cannot sell them, if the need arises. 

I also do not care for them, as I feel a dog should love the work so much that they want to do it NO MATTER WHAT.

This has been an issue for many years, I have seen it, and read about it. Ok, sure, it is nice for the ego, but other than that, pointless.

As far as Hutch is concerned, and I might be wrong, but who the heck else does he really see ??? I was never able to get you to come and train when I was in Colorado, and I understand you were working quite a bit, but that is life. If the dog does not see people, then you get the standoffishness that you are talking about.

One day, if I ever have more room, we can experiment and I will have you send a dog with that same trait down here, and you can see that if gotten young enough, the dog will work just fine for anyone.

Mostly, I think that this is something that is in the dog, and HANDLERS encourage this bullshit. 

As a side note, I think there are lines out there that have problems with new handlers, but more than likely, they just are not that good with dogs. Bonding is like 3 weeks at most. Most dog people are unsocial weirdo control freaks. Why would a dog want to hang out with them ???

(thus the treats and tugs and bullshit) another thread maybe.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

You're probably correct, in that Hutch will work for others, but particularly if I'm out of sight out of mind. Pat took the reins a few times, at would command his attention nicely for at least a few minutes, before he started wondering where I was. He wasn't able to do that with my dog until he was older, though.

I had another dog, female named Elektra, who just loved the work so much, she didn't care who her handler was. Just a nut for the work, so the person didn't matter, strange handler or strange helper.

Some of the "who", might depend a bit on the type of breeder personality that they are imprinted with in their youth, that determines if the new handler's personality is a good fit for them.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'd like to see the dog, that giiven the chance of working with another handler, stayed willingily by it's handler.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

And that comes from what part of you ??


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

My sober side!!!!


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> And that comes from what part of you ??


From a part that wants the dog to reassure us of something.... whether it's the existence of the dog's affection or gratitude or whether it's wanting to know that we are in some way better than another prospective leader for the dog ... lots of needy stuff that we humans all have in one form or another.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I was actually thinking that if someone tempted my dog to do some sort of action with him, and I didn't tell him to stay, he would go to the "someone". Dogs are egoists??


----------

