# Fawkes Takes the ATTS Temperament Test



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

6 days shy of 18 months old (we just squeaked by!), Fawkes passed the American Temperament Test judged by ATTS president Carl Herkstroeter. He said he looked like a very good example of a Malinois. You can't see it on the video as it was behind the trees, but he had the characteristic amount of aloofness with the meeting of strangers. He said he was "a little disappointed" that he didn't get more fired up for the last three parts with the aggressive stranger, but I don't think the "decoy" made enough noise to be honest. He did step forward with his tail up when he did see the guy and remained watchful, which is fine to me. 

The lady I handed my camera off to record it to seemed to know what she was doing. Turns out, she had no idea how to zoom the camera, even though I showed her. So we're really really small and you have to watch it on high quality. Oh well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YomxCVAs28s


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Big congrats!


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Congrats to both of you.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

good job you 2! give him a treat from me, maren!


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Think many dogs wouldn´t see a man acting weird and shouting a few seconds as a serious threath, especially if not trained for protection. The "aggressive stranger" part looked a bit sloopy by the decoy and only lasted a few seconds, I would assume many dogs will not see this as a "real" threat, so in that sense it doesn´t tell you much what the dog will do when feeling more of a threath.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Is trying to eat the guy with the gun a legitimate responce? I think two, maybe three of my dogs would not stand there so nicely while he is shooting... Would be no problem aggressing at the threatening stranger though. Even if he just did intense eye contact and silently stepped forward.

Was that the whole test? It goes quicker than I thought it would...

Fawkes seems to be a lot like my Havoc. Meaning, nice boy and a good sport dog, but not the dog I'd want to be with when someone is sneaking up from behind, at night.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> Is trying to eat the guy with the gun a legitimate responce? I think two, maybe three of my dogs would not stand there so nicely while he is shooting... Would be no problem aggressing at the threatening stranger though. Even if he just did intense eye contact and silently stepped forward.
> 
> Was that the whole test? It goes quicker than I thought it would...
> 
> Fawkes seems to be a lot like my Havoc. Meaning, nice boy and a good sport dog, but not the dog I'd want to be with when someone is sneaking up from behind, at night.


Yeah, a protection trained dog or a protection "breed" can have a more aggressive response than say a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. It's hard to see because the lady I had film didn't know how to zoom, but the decoy wears a big hat and raincoat (that happens to have a hidden sleeve in case the owner accidently lets go) and is only supposed to run within 10 feet of the dog. I've seen videos and heard of decoys for that part of the test who were *much* more threatening, but the gun shots come from behind a blind, not the decoy. Like if you watch this one around 5 minutes in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26X_aFrkYEg

I may retest him in a few years to see how he matures. The test has two other parts before that video that were behind the trees. First is you greeting a neutral stranger who ignores the dog and second is a dog friendly stranger who is all "awww, good dog, what a good puppy!" to your dog. Fawkes pretty much ignored both.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

congrats. I really like the atts test for what it is. 

The first time I took it my dog did everything perfectly.........text book.......except.......the last part. The last part is broken down into 3 sections........man comes out and coughs, man stops raises stick, man moves forward threatening. My dog looked at the man when he came out and ignored him, ignored the stick raised, but then when he came towards us lit up.

To me that should be the correct response. At that distance the man really isnt a threat (esp since you can not cue/ speak to your dog). How is a dog supposed to know the difference in a person with a disability and a person just walking funny with a raincoat and hat on, a drunk, or a future threat? esp when this is supposed to be a "typical" walk in the park. 

dont get me wrong he passed with flying colors they just rated him lower on the first two "threats".

t


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

One of our club helpers sometimes plays the "crazy guy" at the ATTS.

A dog from our cliub almost failed his ATTS as a result. When he saw his helper step out from behind a blind and threaten him, he went ballistic. Since his handler couldn't give him any commands, he didn't settle down, even after the helper went back behind the blind. He was just waiting to search the blinds.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

tracey delin said:


> congrats. I really like the atts test for what it is.
> 
> The first time I took it my dog did everything perfectly.........text book.......except.......the last part. The last part is broken down into 3 sections........man comes out and coughs, man stops raises stick, man moves forward threatening. My dog looked at the man when he came out and ignored him, ignored the stick raised, but then when he came towards us lit up.
> 
> ...


Yeah, more or less the same thing with Fawkes. He got a "no response" on the first two sections and a mild response on the last part (going to the end of the line, standing ground with tail raised).


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

so what would be an "ideal" response to the 3 last sections?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

ann freier said:


> so what would be an "ideal" response to the 3 last sections?


Ann, that is totally breed dependant and dependant on training.
With Thunder's training and breed the judge completely expected him to, #1 show interest in the stranger #2 to show forward aggression when the stranger showed a threatening posture and #3 relax yet keep watching the stranger as he stopped the threat and walked away. Thunder did as expected.
A GSD, Rottie, Mal, etc could show forward aggression and it would pass even without bite training. They are breeds that are expected to protect naturally. 
If a Beagle showed the same aggression it would flunk. Beagles aren't ment to be naturally aggressive towards a threat. If a GSD, Rotty, Mal went behind the handler is would (hopefully) flunk.
My Norwich Terrier got his TT some 20+ yrs ago with one of my daughters. He stepped out very stiff legged in front of my daughter and growled when the "stranger" showed a threat. If he would have went behind my daughter he still may have passed because he wasn't a breed that is expected to protect. He was still not penalized for his actions because terriers are......well....they're a PIA! :lol:


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

oh, well that's interesting-this IS an AKC test, correct?? and they don't expect every dog to react exactly the same as every other dog? 

if it's not an AKC test, is it recognized by the AKC?

i know, i'm showing my dumba$$, but at least there aren't actual pictures....lucky you guys


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Not AKC but the title is recognized by AKC. 
http://www.atts.org/


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

In the Swedish temperament Test they have now changed the part of the test where a stranger is supposed to stimulate the dogs willignes to respond to a challange, now it´s more a playfull behaviour from the stranger part, to avoid stimulate the dogs defence/aggression to much, and instead focus more on the prey/play/fightingdrive-respond of the dog, that was the main purspose of the older version too, defence and aggresion is tested in other parts of the test.

The new stranger is acting more like this,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmy3llYP-es 

The old one was more like this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajNjFnLelro


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

hmmmmmmmmm yeah those are both very natural lol.

any more videos of this test? Id love to see them.

back when I was contemplating being a judge for ATTS, I was told taht if any point any breed of dog went behind their owner and did not come back to at least shoulder/ leg position the dog would fail. No breed was allowed to fun behind the owner unless it recovered enough to stand next to the owner at bare minimum.

things may have changed since then....it was a while ago.


t


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

The old korung was this version,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2LCndxZAY8

The new one with some changes compared to the old can be downloaded here,

http://www.bobbyochnikita.se/video/korning_nemo_med.wmv


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

can i see the instructions anywhere? not sure what exactly is going on or why.

t


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Don´t know any in english. But if we talking about the new one is not so hard to understand. The dog is scored in a scale 1-5, where 5 is the most ideal, total points 600p. The dog is tested how he acts socially among strangers, the intensity and the way he bites, fear, aggression, curiosity, ability to concentrate, gunshots during activity and passivity, and a few other things.

The things they have changed in the new korung is letting the dog bite from 5 meters, where the judge holds a bitetug and struggle a moment with the dog and also is putting slight pressure on the dog by after a while holding the tug up to the chestarea and walk towards the dog a few steps. This is then also done with a distance of 40 meters. The grip and the intensity of the dog is judged. Another difference is that a tug is drawn into a pipe and the dog is then supposed to work to get the tug out, they want to see how long the dog engage and is intressted in work. 

Then the part with the "sledge" that is drawn towards the dog cold be drawn closer to the dogs in the new korung to see a reactions, aggression and standing it´s ground to a threat is the main purspose of that part. The last change is that in the part when the dog is suppsed to find it´s owner in the "forrest" of military-shootingfigures, one figure is rasied before the dog is realesed, previously this figure was rasied almost right in front of the dog when he is running after his handler. The "weird" stranger is also changed in a way that he is supposed to more stimulate the dogs prey/play-respond, and not so much defence/aggresion that was more easily done with the old type of weird stranger.

So in short the new things, slight changes, in the new korung is the ones below,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce8tI9aGMVc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gjn9KwWIfY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbI2oNtNY1U


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Erik Berg said:


> Think many dogs wouldn´t see a man acting weird and shouting a few seconds as a serious threath, especially if not trained for protection. The "aggressive stranger" part looked a bit sloopy by the decoy and only lasted a few seconds, I would assume many dogs will not see this as a "real" threat, so in that sense it doesn´t tell you much what the dog will do when feeling more of a threath.


So I did an ATTS test this weekend…………outcome: we passed w/ an above avg on most with a few avg. and a no response on the footing………I was surprised at the attack as the last ones I did (YEARS AGO) seemed to have more of a “threat” display and in part three the guy seemed to hang around a little longer back then. Not sure if things have changed in the way they are conducting this part or not but it was over really quickly.
t


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Most people I know, and from the few I have watched the people doing the testing do not have enough experience to have anything to do with this test. 

I have heard some interesting responses to why the dog should pass, my favorite was after the dog blew its anal gland and jerked the handler off her feet, was that the dog was a "trained" helper dog and that was what he was trained to do in case of a threat.

Really???? Really????

Take what they say with a huge grain of salt. Or do the right thing and not listen at all.


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