# Police Dog Kills Dachschund



## Megan Bays

http://wvgazette.com/News/200810090738?page=1&build=cache

This just happened in the area I work at. I find it hard to beleive a smaller dog, "scared to death of bigger dogs" would have stayed around while the K9 was in the yard.

Makes me kind of mad to see the K9 as a villian, when he was trying to do his job some little ankle biter came up and started annoying him.

Then again, if the dog was on a leash why did the handler not have better control of the situation??

--Meg


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## Gillian Schuler

One of the replies stated that Dachshunde are not bloodthirsty monsters and about 99% are very sweet creatures!

I know of two cases at least where Dachshunde have gone for the throat of much larger dogs that have had to be hospitalised. Given what they are bred for, even if they can sometimes make nice house pets, dog meets dog is another situation.

Otherwise it's hard to comment, not having seen what really happened.


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## Anna Kasho

It says in the article that the Dach's owner was in the house when she heard the dogfight. Then how does she figure it was the policedog that started it? Because of "sweet Fluffy wouldn't hurt a flea" kind of thinking? Also says the dachs was bit more than once, and quotes the vet mention of "wounds" and "punctures" - well, there are several teeth going in even with one bite. Just a dumb and unlucky little dog, bad situation all around, IMO.

Makes me wonder though, if I have MY dog out in such a situation, if the police would come knock on the door first or just send their dog into the yard. I know my dogs will start a fight... So then what?


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## Michelle Reusser

My neighbors Dachs are horribly mannered dogs, both will run right at my dogs on my property, the sidewalk or anywhere. The dogs are too stupid to get that they are 1/15th the size of my dog and they are quite lucky my dog has a sense of humor. Poor Baden just looks at me like" are they for real"? So far he has been bit by a Dach and a Yorkie. I can alreasy see it would be my killer dogs fault should he return the favor to the horrible little beasts.


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## Megan Bays

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that in one of the latest "Dog Bite" and "Vicious Dog" polls taken, Dachshunds were at the top of the list...

I feel some empathy towards the owner, but more for the police department for having to deal with this situation. As I am sure they will end up having to pay an arm and a leg for it.


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## Kyle Sprag

Sad but the PSD was IN the ladies yard. This happens all the time and If it would have been a larger dog the PD would have SHOT the "offending" dog. Not sure what the answer is but PDs need to be aware of when they go on private property and where/when they deploy their dogs into private property.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Kyle Sprag said:


> Sad but the PSD was IN the ladies yard. This happens all the time and If it would have been a larger dog the PD would have SHOT the "offending" dog. Not sure what the answer is but PDs need to be aware of when they go on private property and where/when they deploy their dogs into private property.


Yeah, I was going to say...if a pit bull on a property charged a police dog or an officer, even on its own property and wasn't a drug stash guard dog, it'd be Swiss cheese. Right or wrong, that's the officer's call to make in a split second. Not an easy one to make...


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## Tim Martens

Kyle Sprag said:


> Sad but the PSD was IN the ladies yard. This happens all the time and If it would have been a larger dog the PD would have SHOT the "offending" dog. Not sure what the answer is but PDs need to be aware of when they go on private property and where/when they deploy their dogs into private property.


i hope it's not your missing daughter that a K9 is trying to track, but has to keep taking breaks to inform all of the homeowners of his/her intention to use a police dog in people's backyards. or i hope it's not your mother's house that a K9 is trying to search while the badguys are in her house about to kill her while the K9 handler is outside having dispatch call her house while he pounds on the front door only to not get an answer.


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## Kyle Sprag

Tim Martens said:


> i hope it's not your missing daughter that a K9 is trying to track, but has to keep taking breaks to inform all of the homeowners of his/her intention to use a police dog in people's backyards. or i hope it's not your mother's house that a K9 is trying to search while the badguys are in her house about to kill her while the K9 handler is outside having dispatch call her house while he pounds on the front door only to not get an answer.


Doesn't read like any of the above was involved in this case?


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## Tim Martens

Kyle Sprag said:


> Doesn't read like any of the above was involved in this case?


agreed, but i don't think your blanket statement spoke only to this case either...


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## Kyle Sprag

Tim Martens said:


> agreed, but i don't think your blanket statement spoke only to this case either...


What do you feel is wrong about what I wrote?


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## ann schnerre

i'm not LE, and where i live, if a K9 is deployed on my property i'd be the one requesting it, but...doesn't LE at least attempt to notify homeowners that they have a K9 in the area (i mean if there's time)? and if a K9 is in "hot pursuit" so to speak, wouldn't that alleviate the dep't from liability? at least to some extent?


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## Tim Martens

ann freier said:


> i'm not LE, and where i live, if a K9 is deployed on my property i'd be the one requesting it, but...doesn't LE at least attempt to notify homeowners that they have a K9 in the area (i mean if there's time)? and if a K9 is in "hot pursuit" so to speak, wouldn't that alleviate the dep't from liability? at least to some extent?


finally some common sense...

yes, ann. if time is on our side, we knock on the homeowner's door and have dispatch see if they have a phone number for the homeowner. if there is no answer on both ends, what i do as a handler is bang and rattle the gate (most dogs would come running and barking). then there is the K9 announcement as well.

if there was some sort of "hot pursuit" the dept is still probably on the hook for any damages to a dog. after all, that's just the right thing to do.


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## ann schnerre

why bless your heart, tim! "common sense"--it's in pretty short supply in the best of times, eh?

so, to take the K9 out of the scenario as far as the "hot pursuit" business goes; if an officer in hot pursuit destroys property with his car, say a pasture-gate cause he missed a turn (yes, this is where i live ), then the PD is liable for a new gate, right?

so i think logically then, the PD would be liable for the the cost of a new Dachshund--but determining THAT could be fun!! almost makes me wish i was an attorney....

but here's a question for you tim: if you're deployed w/your dog, you rattle/bang the backyard fence and a dog(s) comes raising heck--what do you do then? that's the call that could cost you apprehending a bad guy--a tough call.....

IMO, i'd rather have the K9 deployed and kill a pet dog if it results in a nasty person being bit, oh, i mean apprehended. (and it wouldn't take long to kill a Dachs and go on to business). but what if it's a Chow?

i'm thinking it's one of those "da#med if you do, da#med if you don't" deals. the person on the ground has to make the call--and be supported in making that call.


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## Tim Martens

ann freier said:


> why bless your heart, tim! "common sense"--it's in pretty short supply in the best of times, eh?
> 
> so, to take the K9 out of the scenario as far as the "hot pursuit" business goes; if an officer in hot pursuit destroys property with his car, say a pasture-gate cause he missed a turn (yes, this is where i live ), then the PD is liable for a new gate, right?
> 
> so i think logically then, the PD would be liable for the the cost of a new Dachshund--but determining THAT could be fun!! almost makes me wish i was an attorney....
> 
> but here's a question for you tim: if you're deployed w/your dog, you rattle/bang the backyard fence and a dog(s) comes raising heck--what do you do then? that's the call that could cost you apprehending a bad guy--a tough call.....
> 
> IMO, i'd rather have the K9 deployed and kill a pet dog if it results in a nasty person being bit, oh, i mean apprehended. (and it wouldn't take long to kill a Dachs and go on to business). but what if it's a Chow?
> 
> i'm thinking it's one of those "da#med if you do, da#med if you don't" deals. the person on the ground has to make the call--and be supported in making that call.


well, if the dog comes running up to the gate, it obviously takes my dog out of the scenario. usually in that case, i'd put my dog up and as the resident dog "expert" i would see how truly aggressive the dog is. i can't tell you the number of dogs i've seen that come running up to the gate, all teeth and growling, then you enter the yard and they continue their show, but back up and don't come close to you. if i feel the dog is "real" in his aggression, we'd simply make a note of it and at the end of the search if we still hadn't found our man, we'd try to figure out another way to search that yard (snare the dog on a come along for instance).

yes, the dept would be liable for the gate.

yes, the dept will probably pay out for the owner of the hotdog.

again, it's just the right thing to do. doesn't mean the police did anything wrong (not saying either way), but in the interest of community service, it's just the right thing to do...


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## Gillian Schuler

Interesting thread.

As I was about to leave the house with my dogs, a car raced up (pastural village) followed by another which blocked the first one. Three persons jumped out but the cop was out in a second pointing a gun at them. Back into house with dogs. Closed all windows and watched from bathroom window, not in line of fire. Three now on their stomachs in front of our fence and, believe it or not, nosy neighbours (with kids) on the other side of the street. Support came and one of the policemen hit the woman who was shouting instructions to her accomplices (all Rumanian) before they were put in the car.

My neighbour said afterwards that she thought the police were rather brutal especiall witht he woman. A prison warder I know, told me afterwards she was the leader of the band and was telling the others what to say.

They had just robbed a house and thanks to a neighbour's initiative in calling the police on his handy, they were able to catch them, the neighbour giving them instructions as to the direction, etc.

I couldn't understand my neighbour's reaction. The main moan is "where are the police when we need them?" And when they are there - they should handle the criminals with kid gloves, at the risk of injuring innocent citizens??????

My answer would be "catch him first - tell me later".


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## Bob Scott

Met a lot of Dasch. Don't remember any fitting any kinda sweet little pet description. :-o 
Being very terrier like, I would bet on many of them making a serious attempt to bite people or dogs. 
I would have shot it for ANY threat before taking the chance of it doing ANY damage on a cop or K9. 
Not being there I have absolutely no idea what actually happened. Getting the info from the new? Yea, like that'll be right on! :roll: 
We need to take the handcuffs (PC BS) off the cops and let them do their job!


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## Kyle Sprag

Bob Scott said:


> Met a lot of Dasch. Don't remember any fitting any kinda sweet little pet description. :-o
> Being very terrier like, I would bet on many of them making a serious attempt to bite people or dogs.
> I would have shot it for ANY threat before taking the chance of it doing ANY damage on a cop or K9.
> We need to take the handcuffs (PC BS) off the cops and let them do their job!


Curious Bob, what exactly is PC about a dog being shot and/or attacked and killed in its OWN fenced Yard? Do people not have a right to expect their properly confined animals to be safe on their own private property?


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## Alyssa Myracle

I could be wrong since my background is military and not civilian, but I think the Supreme Court has ruled that citizens surrender some of their rights when law enforcement is in hot pursuit.


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## Bob Scott

Kyle Sprag said:


> Curious Bob, what exactly is PC about a dog being shot and/or attacked and killed in its OWN fenced Yard? Do people not have a right to expect their properly confined animals to be safe on their own private property?


 
Absolutely nothing PC about that situation as I read it. That's my point! PC lets the badguy get away. I love my dogs but their not my children and a cop doing his/her job has to answer to way to much BS today. 
Now, that doesn't mean they aren't accountable for their actions. Tim said that more then likely they would pay for the dog. 
Your right! Money wont make up for the loss of the pet but as soon a you start passing laws that cops can't follow the bad guy because someone's pet may get hurt or they may damage someone's swing set you take away a big % of the chance of some asshole being caught.
Same as someone fleeing in a car. That's just as dangerous as someon running down the street with a gun in their hand.
Shoot the **** and keep him from running over someone with that dangerous weapon (car). 
There obviously has to be a balance of controlling the bad guys and controlling the cops. I just think the cops are at a huge disadvantage in todays world. JMHO! :wink:


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## Kyle Sprag

Bob, I agree that the Police are at a huge disatvantage in most cases in trying to do their jobs. Locally this type of situation has been more common than most might think. The police are not helping themselves with the INDISCRETION that has been common practice.

My point is that something needs to change or Pet goons are going to change it for LE and just make the job tougher.


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## Courtney Guthrie

AND this is the perfect example of WHY people should keep their dogs contained WHEN THEY'RE NOT home. BY contained I mean....in a kennel or crate in the house. This demonstrates how leaving your dog loose in your fenced in yard could lead to a dead dog. That's WHY my dogs are always kenneled OR crated when I'm GONE! 

However, if this woman was home when this happened.....that cop was completely WRONG for not knocking or checking the yard before entering. All the K-9's I know.....knock and as Tim said rattle the gate etc. to make sure that there are no dogs in the yard. 

A bigger breed could seriously injure the K9 if the K9 was to do a search in a yard with larger aggressive dogs and IF the officer shot the dog, he'd be in the WRONG IMHO for not checking the yard first. 

I'm all for supporting the officers BUT if they're not using common sense I can't support them. Mind you I train with k9 officers and none that I know would enter a fenced yard without checking for a dog first. 

Courtney


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## Kyle Sprag

The Lady WAS home.

I also do not leave my dogs outside when I am not around they are either in a Crate inside or Kennel outside. 90% of the time if they are out in the yard I am out with them.


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## Tim Martens

Kyle Sprag said:


> Bob, I agree that the Police are at a huge disatvantage in most cases in trying to do their jobs. Locally this type of situation has been more common than most might think. The police are not helping themselves with the INDISCRETION that has been common practice.
> *
> My point is that something needs to change or Pet goons are going to change it for LE and just make the job tougher*.


you mean people like you?


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## Kyle Sprag

Tim Martens said:


> you mean people like you?


 
Well Tim, I guess that would depend on your definition. If it is someone who reasonably expects his/her K9 property to be left on its legally secured private property without the risk of being maimed, injured or killed by; then I guess I am.
<O</O
In healthcare when you have an unexpected and/or negative outcome you perform a Root Cause Analysis (RCA). The RCA is not intended to point fingers, assign blame BUT IS meant to determine what happened in the Expectation that is IS NOT repeated. The first step is to acknowledge there might be a prolem.


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## Tim Martens

Kyle Sprag said:


> Well Tim, I guess that would depend on your definition. If it is someone who reasonably expects his/her K9 property to be left on its legally secured private property without the risk of being maimed, injured or killed by; then I guess I am.
> <O</O
> In healthcare when you have an unexpected and/or negative outcome you perform a Root Cause Analysis (RCA). The RCA is not intended to point fingers, assign blame BUT IS meant to determine what happened in the Expectation that is IS NOT repeated. The first step is to acknowledge there might be a prolem.


the point is that you are performing your RCA based on a newspaper article. experience tells me there are too many potential variables to hang these officers out to dry like you seem to want to do. things like: maybe the homeowner didn't answer the door, maybe she was in shower when they knocked, maybe the dachshund was older and deaf and thus didn't hear the gate rattle. those are just a fraction of the number of variables that could have been present that didn't make the paper. 

sometimes in this line of work, you do everything you can and invariably "shit (still) happens". that's why it's the right thing to pay for the damages, but it won't change the way we do business...


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## Alyssa Myracle

Strangly, the Dachshund was wearing a leash during the attack.

Was this lady in the habit of leaving her Dachshund in the backyard dragging a leash about, or did something else happen that isn't being mentioned by the news media (which is more or less standard).


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## Megan Bays

I do not live in an urban area, which is where this event happened. I do not have little dogs, such as the dog in this case. 

God willing, I never will. Now for granted some people may live in urban areas, and have tiny dogs, and love it more than anything in the world. Thats great for those people, but isn't my cup of tea.

I have a friend and an aunt who both have dachs. I personally think they are horrid little wretches, but they love them. Also they are house dogs, and the only time they are let outside is to relieve themselves. They are always supervised at this time.

Where I live at right now, we have five acres. I keep my dogs in kennels when I can not be out to supervise them. And if there was a police chase through my back yard, who cares as long as they catch the guy/girl. If I could I would try to help the police officers.

Where this incident happened, its a small town, and if something big is going on people are going to know about it. People still listen to the cop frequencies on their CBs to find out whats going on. As soon as someone heres wind of something they're calling everyone they know to get the latest scoop or gossip. I don't know if any of you are from a small town, but in all the ones I've lived in everyone is nosey!

If the cops were chasing someone through the streets, that'd be something "big" happening in their little town. Which I'm sure this would be heard through the radios, and I'm sure there would be lights flashing from the police cars driving around looking for the suspect. And everyone is calling everyone to find out whats going on. There might not have been more than one or two cops on the chase, but I seriously doubt that.

To me, it would seem hard not to realize what was going on. Anyone who had the least idea of their surroundings would surely see the bright LED flashing blue lights. I believe I'd say to myself, hmm I wonder whats going on. Maybe not if you lived in a high crime area, but this area isn't high crime.

I'm not LE. But, I if I were I'd imagine I would do everything I could to get my job done to keep civilians, and my fellow partners safe. I would also do this to my best ability regarding civilian safety. I would expect civilians to know, understand, and respect that I had a job to do, and the job included keeping them safe.

While I feel that the officer, in this incident, might not have done all that he could to protect his K9, he could have considering where the source of info came from. Yes there could have been a larger dog that could have caused one of them harm, but instead now the PD has to pay for the loss of someone's pet. At least the K9 who helps protect their city everday did not get hurt.

But I agree with what Bob Scott said:
"I love my dogs but their not my children and a cop doing his/her job has to answer to way to much BS today... Money wont make up for the loss of the pet but as soon a you start passing laws that cops can't follow the bad guy because someone's pet may get hurt or they may damage someone's swing set you take away a big % of the chance of some asshole being caught."

And think that that Tim Martens perfectly sums up the situation with:
"sometimes in this line of work, you do everything you can and invariably "shit (still) happens". that's why it's the right thing to pay for the damages, but it won't change the way we do business..."


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## Kyle Sprag

Tim, if what I wrote is "hanging" officers out to dry then you need a thicker skin. You are being way over sensative and Yes you are right and I agree no matter what you do sometimes sh!t just seems to fall apart but we all must answer at times for our professional decisions, right or wrong, whether we like it or not. If the officers in this case did what you wrote then they did what they could do but what makes them or anyone else above question?


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## Patrick Murray

Tim Martens said:


> i hope it's not your missing daughter that a K9 is trying to track, but has to keep taking breaks to inform all of the homeowners of his/her intention to use a police dog in people's backyards. or i hope it's not your mother's house that a K9 is trying to search while the badguys are in her house about to kill her while the K9 handler is outside having dispatch call her house while he pounds on the front door only to not get an answer.


Hi Tim. Are you suggesting that dog owners NOT leave their dogs in their fenced in back yards because a police k-9 team might have to go through their back yard at some point?


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## Tim Martens

Kyle Sprag said:


> Tim, if what I wrote is "hanging" officers out to dry then you need a thicker skin. You are being way over sensative and Yes you are right and I agree no matter what you do sometimes sh!t just seems to fall apart but we all must answer at times for our professional decisions, right or wrong, whether we like it or not. If the officers in this case did what you wrote then they did what they could do but what makes them or anyone else above question?


i'm not complaining about the second guessing and monday morning quarterbacking that inevitably occurs. my problem is with anybody trying to do that with nothing more than a newspaper article as the basis for their judgment. you are not qualified to question their actions. nobody here is. we don't have all the facts. we have one side. 



Patrick Murray said:


> Hi Tim. Are you suggesting that dog owners NOT leave their dogs in their fenced in back yards because a police k-9 team might have to go through their back yard at some point?


of course not patrick. what i'm suggesting is that if you are unfortunate enough to have a wanted felon run through or hide in your backyard, there is a chance that not only your dog could get injured, but let's not forget about your family and property. some things you can control or try to limit your family/pet/property's exposure, but you can't eliminate it. do your best to eliminate unnecessary exposure and the cops will do their best to eliminate unnecessary risk to you and yours.


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## Michelle Reusser

If a fellon comes a jumpin my fence, the K-9 unit can lap up whatever is left. My dogs better be using the guy as a tug toy.

The most informative piece of the article was, the woman says her dog didn't start it but it also stated she was inside the home, her basis for her opinion is that her dog is "affraid" of large dogs. If this is what they are going to base the story on, I think it's fair if the rest of us try to blow that out of the water some. Can anybody say fear bitter? I have 2 next door. Dox's are cute but they have the shittiest dispositions.


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