# 8 mth old pup chases shadows and lights



## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

I have a mali/dutch herder cross who has a developed a fascination with moving shadows and lights. When he was 4-5 mths or so old i had great fun with him using a laser pointer. I realised the detriment of this when would come into the room and stare at the floor.

Has anyone had a problem with shadows, lights etc??

When doing people search in buildings he loses all his focus and runs about chasing shadows, dropping the toy in the process.

Im hoping he'll grow out of it, shadow chasing started about a week ago.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> I have a mali/dutch herder cross who has a developed a fascination with moving shadows and lights. When he was 4-5 mths or so old i had great fun with him using a laser pointer. I realised the detriment of this when would come into the room and stare at the floor.
> 
> Has anyone had a problem with shadows, lights etc??
> 
> ...


should be fine if you ever start bitework...he should forget about shadows/lights when he comes across something more interesting, like a decoy....I personally would not do any more encouraging of the behavior...I did the laser pointer and flashlight games with a rottie once...she loved that pointer til the day she died...LOL...but did not detract from other things...


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Be very careful with this issue, it can cost you!

My dog does this as well. It was much more intense as a puppy. Now it seems to come out when the dog is bored. 
I have a desk lamp that over hangs the desk. Everyday I come home with a clipboard made of aluminum, it reflects the lamp onto the ceiling. My dog goes nuts. The problem is that when I open the clipboard it makes a little click. My dog could be on the other side of the house and comes running when he hears it, looking up at the ceiling. Now we could be anywhere and he hear's a simular click, complete loss of focus. I found this out the hard way at the WDC 2010, and the camera lady's camera made a simular click. F*&k the dumbell,l I heard something click!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It won't go away.


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## Shade Whitesel (Aug 18, 2010)

never ever use a laser with your high drive dog. They can never catch the light, never complete their prey sequence and calm down. Usually in my experience leads to shadow chasing.
Now that he has, it's your job to ensure he has something else really high drive: ball, tug, decoy or helper, to express those instincts on. At the same time, every time he chases a light, he gets put on a gentle (not corrective, which only adds to the drive) down stay. 
Good luck.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I used to use a laser for my female, and we could turn it off and she'd quit. Then my kids got ahold of it and made her rather neurotic about it by teasing the hell out of her with it - so no more laser pointer for her. She did get over it with more mental stimulation with toys and such and is no longer distracted by lights etc. on the wall, but the pointer is still something to be kept out of reach. It did take quite awhile to get her over that though. Good luck.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My grandkids used to make my JRT run up the wall all the way to the cealing. 
I now hide all the flashlights because the dog was turning into more of a head case then the average JRT.
As one said "It doesn't go away". It's one of those need to control issues.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Oh dear!! Not good, he had a thing for cyclists, runners, cars, birds basically anything that moved! He never caught a cyclist (he did catch a runner tho and the less said about that the better). 

However he does appear to be more hellbent on catching the shadows, what about getting a furry toy with a red flashing light and letting him catch it?? 

Or ignore it and hope the notion passes? He does bitework and has no problem with focus its only when doing people search or tracking he loses interest. 

Many thanks for the replies


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

You know what I did? I got mine a buddy to play with, lol. He distracts her more than anything did from the "omg shadows" thing, and she pretty well quit doing it after we got him.

I tried to let her catch it too, by pointing it on a toy and when she'd bite it, turn the light out...yeah that was a no-go. She just turned to look at me - she knew where the light was really coming from.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

I have a GSD that lives to chase flying bug shadows. When she is out in the yard she will go to any sunny spot and stare at the ground until a bug flys by, then, eyes on the ground she will chase the shadow until it disappears. It has zero affect on her bite work, it is just her favorite pastime.

The other day a bird flew across the yard toward my house, she spotted that big shadow on the ground and went after it. Full speed with her nose to the ground the bird flew over my fenced yard and house. Of course the shadow never left the ground as it flew through the chain link China, her eyes on the ground, ran right into the fence and the dang shadow got away.


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## Rox Brummer (Jul 7, 2009)

My Weimaraner was borderline obsessive about chasing butterfly shadows as a puppy. He still does it from time to time, but not if he is working. The "real thing" excites him far more. If I felt it affected his work in any way, I wouldnt allow it, but if that is what floats his boat in his downtime, so be it.


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## Kerry Foose (Feb 20, 2010)

You could use the pointer for good rather than evil , lol. I have actually used the laser pointer in young pups to develop and on and off switch. Pointer on, stay with it-stay with it-stay with it _THAT'LL DO_, they stop, look to me- reward via food tidbit and or toy redirect. Obviously you should use your own verbage pertaining to your sport, I use traditional herding terms because it is relevant to me and the dogs.
I find it works well in my high drive corgis, and it lends itself nicely to solid outs in my dogs while on stock or on any other high prey drive mode (like chasing the cats lol).
Just an idea to play with since it is still a pup.


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Interesting topic.... I just recently started to play with a laser pointer with my male, he will do half flips off the wall or stand on his hind legs and bark if we point at the ceiling... we started it for fun cause my parents thought it was always cute for their dogs and cat but after we saw how extreme it got I mentioned it would be wise to stop cause I fear that he will take a chunk out of the wall or the ground. As a puppy he always showed interest in shadows and reflecting lights but chasing never occured unless he was not worked and I never encouraged the behavior and try to curb it through obedience to restrain the behavior and worked the drive on a ball or other toy which he is always fine with and will immediately overlook the lights/shadows. I did however notice just as of last month (the longest he has gone without work and proper exercise.... I know bad bad me) that he started to notice the small dust particles or in the air that you could see as light passes through your home. He would randomly start to chomp at them naturally I laughed cause it was something I had never seen but when I realized it wasn't just a once or twice thing and that he would continue if he wasn't stimulated worried me. I got right back to exercising and the behavior is no longer existent. Anybody hear of things similar though that they have gone past the point of no return? I wonder had I just let him be for a little while longer if there would be no hopes in correcting the behavior fully.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Amanda Caldron said:


> Interesting topic.... I just recently started to play with a laser pointer with my male, he will do half flips off the wall or stand on his hind legs and bark if we point at the ceiling... we started it for fun cause my parents thought it was always cute for their dogs and cat but after we saw how extreme it got I mentioned it would be wise to stop cause I fear that he will take a chunk out of the wall or the ground. As a puppy he always showed interest in shadows and reflecting lights but chasing never occured unless he was not worked and I never encouraged the behavior and try to curb it through obedience to restrain the behavior and worked the drive on a ball or other toy which he is always fine with and will immediately overlook the lights/shadows. I did however notice just as of last month (the longest he has gone without work and proper exercise.... I know bad bad me) that he started to notice the small dust particles or in the air that you could see as light passes through your home. He would randomly start to chomp at them naturally I laughed cause it was something I had never seen but when I realized it wasn't just a once or twice thing and that he would continue if he wasn't stimulated worried me. I got right back to exercising and the behavior is no longer existent. Anybody hear of things similar though that they have gone past the point of no return? I wonder had I just let him be for a little while longer if there would be no hopes in correcting the behavior fully.


My dog gets on average 2 hrs excercise and training a day. A typical day would be out at 8am brief run round the field a bit of fetching and tugging for 30 mins back home feed and leave at least 2 hrs. He would either be in a crate in the livingroom or in his run he would normally sleep after feeding.

In the evening or afternoon depending on shifts etc he would get OB training, mostly heel, down down in motion, sit, sit in motion, look, speak, turns at heel etc etc. I don't do all these at once I pick a few like down and heel where some compulsion is used and focus on these or "happy training" (all training is happy I hope you know what I mean).

After OB training he would run free as he is still a pup, some fetching and tugging might be employed.

Before bed he would get another 30 mins running free with fetching and tug etc. I take him in the car when I can and try to stimulate him mentally as best I can, I do search training (people and object) I do as much bitework as possible, I walk him through busy towns but he has a dicky tummy and this can cause issues.

However he chases raindrops, drips from the run roof, shadows, lights, barks at running water and will stand watching a river for as long as I let him ( I timed him for 20 mins before I gave up and got him). When i take him out in the car he is soaking from slabbers at biting and chasing the shadows and movements during the drive. The car carrier is also soaked!!

I think my dog has a few menatl disorders!!

PS when he is in the crate in the livingroom he is as quiet as a mouse and goes daft when he gets let out.


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