# Service dogs



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I was watching a show on TV tonite about Canine Assistants and the founder, Jennifer Arnold.

Believe me I tried to keep an open mind but couldn't, it all seems nice and people get a warm fuzzy from this stuff but all I saw was a bunch of able minded and bodied people training dogs for a bunch of retards to basically abuse and neglect.

I don't get it, except as a way to make a living by taking advantage of two separate species that are pretty much just there for the ride.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Believe me I tried to keep an open mind but couldn't, it all seems nice and people get a warm fuzzy from this stuff but all I saw was a bunch of able minded and bodied people training dogs for a bunch of retards to basically abuse and neglect.


I can't comment on that but I have wondered more than once what kind of quality of life these dogs have. When I was younger and a wild child (need to kinda justify what I am about to say), I nearly punched a blind man in a restaurant for being cruel to his dog. More than once I saw him kick the dog and jerk him around forcibly. I thought instead about stealing it, it's not like he would have realized it right away. Eventually, I left but I never forgot how poorly he treated that dog.

Another disabled guy, now here I go on about being a thief for real this time, I did "steal" the dog from. I did it because the guy would beat the living shit out of his dog with his crutches sometimes so badly she wouldn't move for days. His sister also told me that he was having sexual interactions with this dog and begged me to not return her to him. So took her and didn't return her when I was supposed to.

Gerry, I'm just saying... I think there's some merit to your concern as far as I am concerned.


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Wow, that's some pretty harsh shit. But I can see where your coming from & I think recipients should be monitored to make sure the dogs are being WELL cared for. These dogs deserve to be treated like royalty for being someone's eyes, etc. There's good & bad all over & I'm sure some of the poor dogs get stuck with dip shits who dont appreciate them. But I sure hope if I ever go blind, (and I do have a chance of it), that someone will hook my blind ass up with a good service dog. Just saying....


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> I can't comment on that but I have wondered more than once what kind of quality of life these dogs have. When I was younger and a wild child (need to kinda justify what I am about to say), I nearly punched a blind man in a restaurant for being cruel to his dog. More than once I saw him kick the dog and jerk him around forcibly. I thought instead about stealing it, it's not like he would have realized it right away. Eventually, I left but I never forgot how poorly he treated that dog.
> 
> Another disabled guy, now here I go on about being a thief for real this time, I did "steal" the dog from. I did it because the guy would beat the living shit out of his dog with his crutches sometimes so badly she wouldn't move for days. His sister also told me that he was having sexual interactions with this dog and begged me to not return her to him. So took her and didn't return her when I was supposed to.
> 
> Gerry, I'm just saying... I think there's some merit to your concern as far as I am concerned.


That's cool that you saved that dog from that man. What did you do with the dog? Hopefully he ended up wearing the next dog he hit with his crutches.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I kept her for a while (that dog and the dog I owned both had the same name so it was a bit weird) and then when a friend of mine moved out of her parents house and got a place of her own she asked if she could have her so I gave her the little pitty. 

I remember losing that dog a few times on a hike only to back track and find her digging and biting at rocks the size of a small mellon. I have no idea why but she had a thing about rock possession. She eventually found one she could carry back down the hill. One time I found her digging wildly at one the size of a big pumpkin. I'm sure she thought she hit the jackpot with that one.


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> I kept her for a while (that dog and the dog I owned both had the same name so it was a bit weird) and then when a friend of mine moved out of her parents house and got a place of her own she asked if she could have her so I gave her the little pitty.
> 
> I remember losing that dog a few times on a hike only to back track and find her digging and biting at rocks the size of a small mellon. I have no idea why but she had a thing about rock possession. She eventually found one she could carry back down the hill. One time I found her digging wildly at one the size of a big pumpkin. I'm sure she thought she hit the jackpot with that one.


Poor thing, maybe getting beaned in the head by crutches messed her head up. Regardless, at least she got out of her bad situation.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I agree that the trainer has a HUGE responsibility to make sure the dogs are safe. I am very reluctant to pass off a dog I have trained. I have SO much invested into the dog! My contracts are very restrictive to ensure that I always have power to remove the dog form the situation if need be.

The other part of it is the trainer must provide a dog that can ACTUALLY do the work consistently. Dogs will untrain themselves (with a little help from the handler), leaving the handler with a brilliant dog that can get into things and cause a lot of trouble.

Not saying that there is no fault to the handlers described! That's just awful and a disgrace to anyone dealing with Service Dogs!


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Wow some of this shit is outrageous. Kudos to you for the theft, IMHO. 

I've trained a few service dogs but it's not something I advertise because of the huge responsibility. The people that do come to me...I turn about 75% of them away for either being creepy wierdos or they're all about 'taking my dog everywhere with me'. I find training service dogs really very rewarding and I love seeing how these dogs can truly change lives, but some people need to be beaten by their own crutches. I make it very clear on my contracts how these dogs are to be treated and cared for because I hate seeing service dog/handler 'teams' giving those PETA junkies a good reason to preach.


I also recently watched a documentary about Canine Assistants. One of the current dogs I'm training the person was turned down from them after three years of waiting with a really rude/vague letter. I found that my opinion is more or less the same as yours. I've never seen an organization match dogs with individuals like that. I'm also on the fence with their training philosophy. The documentary didn't show dogs that were well behaved in crowded or exciting situations - to me it says they were not proofed. I understand that the handlers of the dog cannot physically dominate/correct a dog (nor should it be necessary IMO) but it seems that there were NO consequences to a missed command which resulted in a typical pet dog doing whatever it wanted. To me, that's not a SERVICE animal that has been trained to a proficient level.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

You should switch the dog out on the blind guy with one trained to run into traffic


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> You should switch the dog out on the blind guy with one trained to run into traffic



As long as the dog knows when to split and not get himself under the bus as well.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Let me put it to you this way. The seeing eye dog had a horribly oppressive energy about him. Like someone who had not one single good day in his life or something to ever look forward to. I wasn't kidding about nearly punching that man to set his ass straight. I guess for a split second I thought I might be right in turning the tables on him and making him accountable for his behavior. I'm not prone to violence but something about the situation provoked me in a terrible way. Just thinking about it angers me all over again.


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