# Drive after breeding



## Claire Poissonniez (Feb 11, 2011)

I've heard from some that a female can lose some drive after she has been bred. From others, the opposite. Have any of you noticed a difference in your experience?

Thanks.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I never lost or gained with my female, Reba Von Der Dornburg. She's still drive crazy, I love it.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

I have seen females get way more serious, mebbe matures them. I wonder if spey after litter allows their true personality to come out.

Not a breeder tho, so limited observations.


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## Claire Poissonniez (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks, you two. That's great that your female has crazy drive, Jerry.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

interesting question ... who were the sources you heard it from ?
experienced breeders ? 
what type of breeds, etc 

did you consider the source ?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I've seen females that had drive changes when in heat, but never after having been bred. Or at least not a change I attributed to being bred.

I've seen some drive and behavior changes after having a litter, but they were IMO normal changes you would have seen at that age whether the female was bred or not. IE a female who had her first litter when she was still kind of immature, who after the litter was more mature mentally, but probably would have been anyways simply because of the 4 months age difference.


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## Claire Poissonniez (Feb 11, 2011)

rick smith said:


> interesting question ... who were the sources you heard it from ?
> experienced breeders ?
> what type of breeds, etc
> 
> did you consider the source ?


Hi Rick,

I've heard it a couple times from different people. Owner/handlers, I believe, and I think they worked with Malis or GDS. I wondered if there was something to it because they were from different places and had come to the idea independently.


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## Claire Poissonniez (Feb 11, 2011)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I've seen females that had drive changes when in heat, but never after having been bred. Or at least not a change I attributed to being bred.
> 
> I've seen some drive and behavior changes after having a litter, but they were IMO normal changes you would have seen at that age whether the female was bred or not. IE a female who had her first litter when she was still kind of immature, who after the litter was more mature mentally, but probably would have been anyways simply because of the 4 months age difference.


Thanks, Kadi. That makes sense.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I have seen females, whom after having puppies. Seem to be a bit more reserved about putting themeselves in harms way...As if they learned they might have some higher purpose besides just doing self gratifing behaviores. I think would make sense too. The maternal instinct taking over. I am not sure if it was having a litter that did it either....I have only heard of females getting better at thier work. But the majority of dogs, I am going to assume are unaffected


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Claire : "I've heard it a couple times from different people. Owner/handlers, I believe, and I think they worked with Malis or GDS"
---that certainly makes it crystal clear 

my main points were
- of course bitches will react to their litters differently, before and after, age may affect this, and i don't think anyone would say they all react the same
- if you hang on this list, you'll know DRIVE can be a hard subject to get any agreement on 
- there would be no absolute answers to your Q unless it was YOUR bitch acting weird with changing drive...then you could provide specifics and maybe get specific guidance for your dog

unless the "different people" were highly credible regarding this aspect of canine behavior, should you really care about their opinions ??
...if they had bred dogs for 30 years their opinion would mean a lot to me....i would not give much credibility to a "handler" tho.....

but wth, guess it's a good topic to discuss compared to a lot of "other" ones that have popped up lately


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've never heard of this being even *discussed* before. I worked with one of my dog's mother and grandmother and never noticed any difference.

As Kadi said, during heat bitches can show a change but once the litter is away, I don't think they change in temperament. I couldn't even think of a reason for them to do so.

Or is it a case of "your father ain't your father, but your father don't know" and the females are influenced by having so many pups that don't turn out as they should do? nicotine sniffers, alcohol droolers, kong suckers, sleeve nibblers, etc.


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## Claire Poissonniez (Feb 11, 2011)

rick smith said:


> - there would be no absolute answers to your Q unless it was YOUR bitch acting weird with changing drive...then you could provide specifics and maybe get specific guidance for your dog


Fortunately, this is not a problem for me at the moment. I just have a three year-old bitch, started training older (around 2) and I'm wondering how long I should train for a title versus have that litter I've been hoping to have from her first. She's making nice progress, so I'll probably just assess where we are in a year and go from there. 

I'm curious about how others race the biological clock with their working females, or not, and wanted feedback on this idea I'd heard.

Thanks again for your help.


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## Claire Poissonniez (Feb 11, 2011)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I've never heard of this being even *discussed* before. I worked with one of my dog's mother and grandmother and never noticed any difference.
> 
> As Kadi said, during heat bitches can show a change but once the litter is away, I don't think they change in temperament. I couldn't even think of a reason for them to do so.


I think perhaps my concern was more due to hormonal changes that might take place after pregnancy, like the changes that happen during seasons, than any other factor in raising a litter. Glad to hear it doesn't sound like it's the case.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Claire I think the dog obtaining a high title first for a lot of folks justifies a reason to breed, otherwise putting it bluntly you just got a random dog that hasn't earned the right to be bred, just sayin. Or did I miss something about the dog?





Claire Poissonniez said:


> Fortunately, this is not a problem for me at the moment. I just have a three year-old bitch, started training older (around 2) and I'm wondering how long I should train for a title versus have that litter I've been hoping to have from her first. She's making nice progress, so I'll probably just assess where we are in a year and go from there.
> 
> I'm curious about how others race the biological clock with their working females, or not, and wanted feedback on this idea I'd heard.
> 
> Thanks again for your help.


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## Wendy Schmitt (Apr 29, 2009)

I think my females improve after breeding. It seems to balance them and they actually seem a bit tougher after whelping a litter. They seem to be a bit more dedicated and focused on their work. 

Wendy Schmitt


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Are we talking about dogs or wives? Seen a lot of wives stop doing anything but it was typically after marriage? WTF you guys talking about?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Wendy Schmitt said:


> I think my females improve after breeding. It seems to balance them and they actually seem a bit tougher after whelping a litter. They seem to be a bit more dedicated and focused on their work.
> 
> Wendy Schmitt


Now this I have heard before by lots of people and have seen it. But like I said, I have seen the opposite, I have seen the female have more self preservation behaviors after being bred. I tihnk it's like any other experience in life. All dogs react different. Some, become more focused on thier drive to protect thier young, possibly, and some protect themselves more.

Like humans, some women who like thier social night life, after having kids...completely abandon it. and some...don't have as much maternal intinct...just like any other drive, some mothers have more than others.


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I've seen females that had drive changes when in heat, but never after having been bred. Or at least not a change I attributed to being bred.
> 
> I've seen some drive and behavior changes after having a litter, but they were IMO normal changes you would have seen at that age whether the female was bred or not. IE a female who had her first litter when she was still kind of immature, who after the litter was more mature mentally, but probably would have been anyways simply because of the 4 months age difference.


 
That's where we are with my mali bitch. She seems to have matured quite a bit, but we really can't say how much of it was from the breeding and how much would have happened anyway. I wasn't around for the whelping/weaning (co-ownership with the breeder) so it was a huge change for me, getting her back after the fact and seeing the changes.


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## charles Turner (Mar 2, 2009)

My opinion is the same, never lost, have seen females get stronger in drive, but I would relate it to maturing into that 3,4 year mark.


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