# Cat food?



## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

I was looking at canned cat food for tracking treats but wondering why I don't feed cat kibble to my dog every day. EVO kibble for example has 50% protein and 22% fat and 600 kcal/cup. Their best dog food is under 40% protein, only 18% fat and only 500 kcal/cup.

Why shouldn't I feed cat food again?


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## Craig Snyder (May 7, 2012)

I'd be careful about what might be added to cat food in terms of additonal vitamins and minerals. The two animals do not have the same requirements. The higher protein and fat contents might be bad depending on what the actual source is as well as the amount of saturated vs. unsaturted fats. 

The extra proteins of the cat food normally would mean more calories by weight. So if fed cat food, you'd probably have to cut back the quantities. Also, with much less fiber in the diet, you'd have to watch for digestive issues as well.

Like all foods, there might not be anything wrong with giving cat food to your dog. It all depends on *exactly* what is in it and what's not.

Craig


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Craig Snyder said:


> The extra proteins of the cat food normally would mean more calories by weight. So if fed cat food, you'd probably have to cut back the quantities.


This is what I'm specifically looking for. With Orijen dog food I end up feeding 5 cups to get enough calories to prevent weight loss. This overfills my dog and leaves less appetite. With 600 kcal/cup, I could cut it down to 4 cups which is a more appropriate portion for a medium shepherd size dog. The additional calories of the cat food are from meat-sourced protein and fat. It has both more protein and more fat than most performance dog foods.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what about everything else, how does that compare?


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

It's hard to tell just by looking at ingredient lists and nurtitional analysis. It's meat. The calcium to phosphorous ratio should be about the same, and I don't think much of supplemental vitamins. The meat has what the animals primarily need and if its meat sourced and not byproducts it should be good. From what I can tell, the difference is the cat food has less carbs, no potatoes or any kind of cereal fillers. It has added taurine because of cat's needs. That's about all I can tell from labels.

Keep in mind I'm comparing Orijen and EVO cat foods here, not just your average kitty litter. At about $90 for 30# (two 15# bags), it's a little pricier than the dog kibble but still quite a bit less what I pay for raw or THK (which has a ton of plant fillers).


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Cant add anything about feeding cat food to dogs, but where are you located that you cant feed a raw diet for cheaper than high quality kibble? You are basically paying $3/lb, which is more than most people need to pay to feed raw. Unless you are in an area where meat is extremely pricey? I'm not saying raw is better than what you are feeding, just wondering bout the prices.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

As a general rule, dogs can eat cat food, but cats should not eat dog food due to the taurine levels. One exception that was specifically designed this way is the EVO 95% canned food line. They put adequate taurine in the dog labeled 95% canned food so that cats can eat it too. This is actually how I feed my cats since a can of the 95% turkey/chicken is about $2 a can for the large dog labeled cans and the store I buy it from doesn't carry the large cat labeled cans. 

Something that grinds my gears is when people complain about the price of high quality canned cat food, which is a much better food than almost any dry food out there for the health of the cat. They stay better hydrated naturally (less likely to get FLUTD and blockages, which are emergencies that cost several hundred to several thousand to treat) and are more species appropriate. Feeding that costs me $0.50 per cat (I have two) per day. If you can't afford $0.50 a day, should you really have a cat? Shoot, I wish it only cost me $0.50 a day for each dog!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> As a general rule, dogs can eat cat food, but cats should not eat dog food due to the taurine levels. One exception that was specifically designed this way is the EVO 95% canned food line. They put adequate taurine in the dog labeled 95% canned food so that cats can eat it too. This is actually how I feed my cats since a can of the 95% turkey/chicken is about $2 a can for the large dog labeled cans and the store I buy it from doesn't carry the large cat labeled cans.
> 
> Something that grinds my gears is when people complain about the price of high quality canned cat food, which is a much better food than almost any dry food out there for the health of the cat. They stay better hydrated naturally (less likely to get FLUTD and blockages, which are emergencies that cost several hundred to several thousand to treat) and are more species appropriate. Feeding that costs me $0.50 per cat (I have two) per day. If you can't afford $0.50 a day, should you really have a cat? Shoot, I wish it only cost me $0.50 a day for each dog!


Ha, several thousand to treat a cat, that’s funny. I don’t even know if its morally right to even offer that someone spends that as an option?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Awww, he's trying to bait me again. Now _that's_ funny! :lol::lol::lol:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Just saying.
And no one has to bait you, just let you go and you’ll hang yourself


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## kenneth roth (Jul 29, 2010)

Our cats eats dog food ,dog allways eat the cats catfood never liked there dogfood :-s

Dog just acted more drivier, chased deer had lotz of energy:razz:


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Ok. I looked into this some more and I compared Orijen 6 Fish dog kibble with the Orijen 6 Fish cat kibble. They are almost totally identical in published nutrient analysis except for a little extra taurine in the cat food and a few other micronutrient levels are slightly different but not significantly. For example, dog food is 0.4% sodium and cat food is 0.5%. Variation in batches is going to make those kinds of differences meaningless. But something like a guaranteed minimum level of taurine would obviously matter for cats...

I also considered for a raw diet, how would a raw cat diet differ from a raw dog diet? Assuming you buy into the predator/carnivore prey-model dog diet like would tend to, then the only difference is the dog should be able to digest larger bones and that's about it. I suppose I would also feed cats more rodents and small animals that I just wouldn't waste my time with for a dog not because they wouldn't be nutritionally useful, but because a bigger animal like a rabbit or chicken is just more convenient to get good portions from.

Unfortunately I found that few cat foods actually have the high caloric density I'm seeking. The Orijen 6 Fish for example is 480 kcal/cup whether it's dog or cat. Only the EVO chicken and turkey has 600 kcal/cup. I hope to see if my dog finds it palatable and whether it gives him the runs.

I have fed the EVO canned dog food. Personally I liked the fish one because it slides out of the can in its oil. The beef one is hard to scrape out. I'll get more EVO for sure, and I'm going to be on the lookout for some good canned tracking food, cat or dog.


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

I fed raw for 2 years. The cost of doing raw well is very high. I found that I can buy whole chickens for 0.99 a pound, but Costco raised the price now to 1.10. I can sometimes find whole chickens on sale for seventy cents a pound but not all the time. At a 1$ per pound, the chickens are about the same as Orijen in $/kcal, but that is just feeding whole chickens. Add organ meat, liver, heart, kidney, fish, pork neck bones, beef bones, rabbit, lamb, etc. and the mean price per calorie goes way up. Raw cost me about $90 for the one dog per month. A kibble based diet with a few raw meaty bones costs less than $60. It was $53 last month on Orijen and EVO is even less.

But the reason I switched wasn't to save about $30 a month. It was because my dog was vomitting too many bones. I was looking at the additional expense of a meat grinder and all the additional time to grind meat and prepare it for storage so I didn't have to clean the grinder more than several times a month. Frankly I was tired enough of quartering a dozen whole chickens every time I came home from Costco. But otherwise I like raw.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Bart Karmich said:


> Ok. I looked into this some more and I compared Orijen 6 Fish dog kibble with the Orijen 6 Fish cat kibble. They are almost totally identical in published nutrient analysis except for a little extra taurine in the cat food and a few other micronutrient levels are slightly different but not significantly. For example, dog food is 0.4% sodium and cat food is 0.5%. Variation in batches is going to make those kinds of differences meaningless. But something like a guaranteed minimum level of taurine would obviously matter for cats...
> 
> I also considered for a raw diet, how would a raw cat diet differ from a raw dog diet? Assuming you buy into the predator/carnivore prey-model dog diet like would tend to, then the only difference is the dog should be able to digest larger bones and that's about it. I suppose I would also feed cats more rodents and small animals that I just wouldn't waste my time with for a dog not because they wouldn't be nutritionally useful, but because a bigger animal like a rabbit or chicken is just more convenient to get good portions from.


This I can answer...so a raw cat diet must include taurine, which is pretty low in certain prey animals and certain meat types in general. As it turns out, an all raw whole mouse diet is actually perfect (taurine is found in the eyeballs, brain, and heart, yum yum!) whereas there was a study done with ground whole rabbit and one cat in the study did indeed go blind. So depends on the type of meat that is fed in both species and which cut. 



> Unfortunately I found that few cat foods actually have the high caloric density I'm seeking. The Orijen 6 Fish for example is 480 kcal/cup whether it's dog or cat. Only the EVO chicken and turkey has 600 kcal/cup. I hope to see if my dog finds it palatable and whether it gives him the runs.
> 
> I have fed the EVO canned dog food. Personally I liked the fish one because it slides out of the can in its oil. The beef one is hard to scrape out. I'll get more EVO for sure, and I'm going to be on the lookout for some good canned tracking food, cat or dog.


The chicken/turkey is nice and soft. My two cats do best on this type, which is good cause it's the cheapest. The venison is also a bit softer than the beef. The fish one gives them rather smell poop, so we don't use that one as much. ;-)


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

I'd watch the protein content and other levels of additives in cat food to make sure the dog is getting proper ratios. If the dog is not very active you may get very loose stool w/ that high a protein level. I do use a similar amount of protein if I'm conditioning or trying to build muscle, but in that instance I'd sprinkle a few handfuls of the higher protein feed into a lower feed to "boost" the nutritional value. This is from my own personal experience, so... Perhaps my dogs are just sensitive to higher protein levels in foods or I'm not conditioning them like sled dogs and so they don't need it. Try it out and keep us posted. Good luck.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Bart Karmich said:


> The cost of doing raw well is very high. I found that I can buy whole chickens for 0.99 a pound, but Costco raised the price now to 1.10.


If you order RMB in 30 or 40 pound cases, the price is ofter under $0.70/pound. I was getting organ meat free from the butcher, but it was a hassle to drive down on kill day and process it at home. I was feeding raw far cheaper than I could ever feed kibble.


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