# Food allergies on raw diet?



## Alex Pitawanakwat (Sep 28, 2010)

Monty's belly is covered in hives. His snout is swollen and itchy. He's going to the vet Friday, but I was hoping more minds might have more ideas. Last time he saw the vet, she said it could be food allergies, and if it persisted, the next step would be a hypoallergenic diet. I'm totally willing to do that if that's our best bet, but I'd like to exhaust other options first since that food is amazingly expensive and Monty's going to eat a whole lot of it.
History:
3.5 years old, half Newf, half GSD. No prior allergic reactions. Eats a prey model raw diet consisting of chicken, turkey, pork, beef, rabbit, occasionally venison, fresh fish (mackerel and milkfish) and canned fish (mackerel and salmon) and the bones and organs of all of the above. He has been on this diet for almost 2 years. He does get run-of-the-mill dog treats containing wheat, corn, soy, etc., but I haven't given him any in about a month. I have used franks (100% beef + necessary preservatives, salt, and paprika) and mozzarella cheese as training treats.
The itchy hives have been waxing and waning for the past five months. I live in North Carolina and moved here last April from Michigan, so this is not his first summer here.
It's possible that he was stung by fire ants. He doesn't currently have the pustules that I've found to be typical of fire ant stings, but I can't rule it out. The first occurrence was a bit different than it is currently. The first time, his face swelled up massively and we rushed him to the vet. His whole body was fairly evenly distributed with hives and pustules. He was rushed to the vet for swelling, given benedryl. About a week later, all the swelling was gone. Three or four times since then, he's broken out with hives (no more pustules) in a significant fashion, but he's had them coming and going consistently. The last incidence seemed to coincide with him stealing a bag of dog treats, inclusive of beef, beef by-products, wheat and corn products. He broke out about 12 hours later. I can't attribute the other occurrences to anything.
Throughout this, he's had hot spots come and go between his paw pads. The would appear, become inflamed, and heal within two days each time. Only his front feet were involved, his back feet are pale and dry.
He was treated with a double dose of Promeris in case it was demodectic mange with no improvement. His itching responded well to prednisone, but it made him pee uncontrollably and in huge volumes. It also responded to a non-steroidal antihistamine (don't know what it was), but it made him incredibly drowsy. As soon as I finished the meds, his itching returned, literally within about 12 hours after a two week course of them. He was also on two courses of antibiotics (Sulfa) for the secondary skin infections.

Right now, he's wearing pants and a T-shirt. All of the protected skin has healed within the 3 days he's been wearing it. Hives are gone, redness gone, hot spots gone, and fur already growing back in. If it was a food allergy, wouldn't it not matter if the skin was covered? I would think the hives or at least the itching would persist if it were food related. Areas I've been unable to cover (feet, face, neck) remain itchy, lumpy, and with hotspots.

I've been giving him 1/4 c of apple cider vinegar each evening for 2 weeks now, and I cut all chicken out of his diet three weeks ago. He's also taking a supplement containing about 30 vitamins and minerals, glucosamine and condroitin and probiotics. I'm confident he's not lacking in anything nutritionally.

Any ideas? Suggestions? Things I need to clarify? I'm desperate for him to feel better. Like I said, I have no problem doing a prescription food if a food allergy seems the most likely, but I want more opinions. I was considering taking him to another vet for a second opinion. RX food would be a very big investment for him.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Belly and snout only?
Sounds like a contact dermatitis to me.
Any recent exposures to anything new? Walking in a pond or other area he's not used to?
Many yrs ago I had a mix breed that broke out on her belly and snout. Turns out I had used something on the lawn that she was sensitive to.
Just a thought!


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## Alex Pitawanakwat (Sep 28, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Belly and snout only?
> Sounds like a contact dermatitis to me.
> Any recent exposures to anything new? Walking in a pond or other area he's not used to?
> Many yrs ago I had a mix breed that broke out on her belly and snout. Turns out I had used something on the lawn that she was sensitive to.
> Just a thought!


That's an idea I've examined, but haven't come up with anything unless he's allergic to the grass itself, which is a possibility. We don't use any fertilizers or pesticides, and the only new places he's been swimming has been after he started developing hives. He doesn't have regular access to anyone else's grass that could be treated, just sand.
With the location of his hives, an environmental makes more sense to me than a food allergy. That would have a uniform distribution, would it not?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I would be guessing to say that all food allergies would be more uniform. 
Hopefully others will have better ideas.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

It sounds like an environmental allergy to me, if the covered areas are healing and the uncovered are still raw. 
Might want to think about what kind of cleaners you are using on your carpet or flooring, or possibly laundry detergent you are using on his bedding? Some of the more fragrant ones can cause some wild reactions like hives (Tide being one that always did my ex in).
I think that's where I would start, determine if what you're using on your floors for cleaning might be too strong (like Lysol) and try re-mopping the floors with plain water once you're done with the cleaner, and if you're shampooing carpet, go back over it with just plain water.d I'd also wash all his bedding on the wash cycle without detergent. You'd be surprised how often the washer leaves suds and crap in your clothes.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't know how close your nearest neighbor is but it wouldn't hurt to give some thought to the possibility that this is coming from something they are using on their own lawn.


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## Tamara Champagne (Jan 20, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> It sounds like an environmental allergy to me, if the covered areas are healing and the uncovered are still raw.
> Might want to think about what kind of cleaners you are using on your carpet or flooring, or possibly laundry detergent you are using on his bedding? Some of the more fragrant ones can cause some wild reactions like hives (Tide being one that always did my ex in).
> I think that's where I would start, determine if what you're using on your floors for cleaning might be too strong (like Lysol) and try re-mopping the floors with plain water once you're done with the cleaner, and if you're shampooing carpet, go back over it with just plain water.d I'd also wash all his bedding on the wash cycle without detergent. You'd be surprised how often the washer leaves suds and crap in your clothes.


 
My girlfriend has a female Dobe like this...ANYTHING new tends to cause hives. She has to be very careful about new cleaning products and detergents, and even the material of the dog beds can cause her issues. I'd be very suspect of it being something in the environment. Ususally food allergy reactions are more generalized over the whole body from what I have seen.


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## Alex Pitawanakwat (Sep 28, 2010)

That's a good idea about the detergent, I'll try thoroughly rinsing everything. It's the same one I've always used (All), but it's possible he's developed a sensitivity. The neighbors could be culprits, too. My yard has a 6-10 feet buffer around the fence between the other yards. I will ask if they have used any chemicals on their lawn.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Food allergies account for less than 10% of dogs' allergies.

Flea hypersensitivity is number one by far, but second, and far ahead of food, are environmental/inhalant allergies. 

I would be asking for a referral to a derm vet.

Sending you a PM.


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## Alex Pitawanakwat (Sep 28, 2010)

It is definitely not fleas. He's been on Advantix forever, and he was on Promeris every two weeks for 3 doses in case it was mange. I have a high velocity dog dryer and I went over every inch of his body with it and couldn't find a single flea, tick, or anything else. I had a dog with flea allergies when I was a kid, and Monty's symptoms look like what I remember of that. I've been checking all three of my dogs with the high velocity dryer several times a week because it looks like a flea allergy, but I can't find any fleas!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_" ..... glucosamine and condroitin and probiotics. I'm confident he's not lacking in anything nutritionally."
_

Fish oil and E?

Long-chain Omega 3s are anti-inflammation agents. I know you're giving fish, but I'd give fish oil anyway (and E to replenish the E that the PUFAs use), with a dog who has skin pruritis (or any other inflammation ailment).


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## Alex Pitawanakwat (Sep 28, 2010)

He gets 562 IU/day of E in his multi-supplement. The nutritional analysis on his fish consumption yields 2000-3000 mg fish oil daily. Would you do more fish oil or E than that for a 150 lb dog?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alex Pitawanakwat said:


> He gets 562 IU/day of E in his multi-supplement. The nutritional analysis on his fish consumption yields 2000-3000 mg fish oil daily. Would you do more fish oil or E than that for a 150 lb dog?


On the fish oil: I use a gram of fish oil per ten pounds of dog (not a dog on any kind of anticoagulant). 

Some derm specialists recommend a gram of fish oil per twenty pounds of dog, though.

And of course you can figure it out in terms of EPA and DHA content, etc., etc., but in general, I've gone with the 1000 mg per ten pounds of dog.

I use liquid fish oil. I know some folks use gelcaps, but really, when you're talking six a day (for one of my dogs) or FIFTEEN for yours ( :lol: ), caps get silly. 

On the E, that's close to what I'd give a very big dog, although I admit that the 600 IU of E often mentioned for very large dogs receiving oil supplements really means 90-110 pound dogs. lol

All JMO.



eta
One good source of info on long-chain Omega 3s for atopic dogs is Dr. Shawn Messonnier (_The Allergy Solution for Dogs_).


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## Alex Pitawanakwat (Sep 28, 2010)

Oh my gosh, 15,000 mg daily? When I fed kibble, I would give him 3000 mg of gelcaps daily, because that was the human dose and he's human sized. I guess I'll up the fish oil and see what happens. He can certainly benefit from all the anti-inflammatories he can get. I can up the E. Can't hurt, right?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alex Pitawanakwat said:


> Oh my gosh, 15,000 mg daily? When I fed kibble, I would give him 3000 mg of gelcaps daily, because that was the human dose and he's human sized. I guess I'll up the fish oil and see what happens. He can certainly benefit from all the anti-inflammatories he can get. I can up the E. Can't hurt, right?



I would up the fish oil in steps. I've never seen it trigger diarrhea, but I suppose it could. It is fat.

This human takes over a teaspoon a day (about 7 grams). But I'm certainly not giving anyone advice on the topic. :lol:

As far as the dog goes, the published research by vet med schools like U of Georgia Vet (and Purdue and others) and Messonnier's books and articles (as well as the directions on at least one product, Grizzly Salmon Oil) back up dosages like that for atopic dogs. But you will be seeing a derm vet anyway, and s/he might well want to fine-tune the EPA and DHA amounts (with product recommendations). 

Meanwhile, IMO and based on a ****load of research, no, it can't hurt the dog who is not on any kind of cancer treatment or anticoagulant therapy. 

I'm not a health professional.


PS
All the disclaimers are because this is a public post. In point of fact, my allergic dog gets more than a gram per ten pounds, and this is known and approved by our vet. But this goes beyond the instructions on any product label.


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