# Bizarre Conversation with a "Black Malinois" Breeder in Brasil.



## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

Ok here goes.
Dutch friend was on facebook and friended this guy who shot her a picture of his "Malinois".It was solid Black. No Brindle just coal black.
He said he had a FCI Pedigree on the dog and she said that is just not possible. She has bred and trained Mals for 40 years in Holland and it may be a KNPV cross of some type bu no way is it a FCI Pedigree Malinois.
The breeder from Brasil jumps in and says he has FCI Spain Pedigree that NVBK Malinois can get .
Here is his website and a page where he justifies it..
http://www.pastorbelga.info/historia2.html

Is this just BullShit or what?


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## Betsie Janson (Jan 2, 2012)

I have seen it once. 1 black pup in the litter out of 2 fawn/masked parents. I have been told it does pop up every now and then, though rare. I believe it is recessive black...


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

I am not saying it is not genetically possible. 
He is breeding Blacks to Blacks and saying they have a FCI pedigree.
He even goes as far as to say the Dutch Shepherd was mainly rebuilt after the war with Black Malinois.
What really gets me is he shows some NVBK belgian paperwork of some sort and claims that allows a FCI pedigree. I just think that is BS.
But he has a whole website and several folks jumped in said he was right.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Breeding for colour, and you bothered reading further, as for dutch papers......pfffttt.

I can get a set of dutch papers for my spotted curr born under a tree from unknown parentage on the edge of the desert found up a hollow log at 4 weeks old (guess). KNPV, FCI.....whatever u want.

Think I'm joking??


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Breeding for colour, and you bothered reading further, as for dutch papers......pfffttt.
> 
> I can get a set of dutch papers for my spotted curr born under a tree from unknown parentage on the edge of the desert found up a hollow log at 4 weeks old (guess). KNPV, FCI.....whatever u want.
> 
> Think I'm joking??


Peter - I have been to Holland and around KNPV clubs.
If enough Money shows up, they can probably find a pedigree.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

No doubt.......sure know how to breed good dogs tho yeah.


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## Jehane Michael Le Grange (Feb 24, 2009)

Two things here, firstly black malinois are obviously possible and can get FCI pedigrees but are breed restricted (i.e. they are not supposed to be bred with) my male malinois (Fawn in colour) who is KUSA registered (and affiliated to the FCI) shared a litter with a black mali pup who was also registered, with a pedigree but my understanding is they are not allowed to be bred with and their offspring (should someone still decided to breed with them) wont be allowed to be registered or bred with. Black malinois can also not take part in breed shows. 

Secondly there are 2 organizations that call themselves the FCI  

The 'real' or oldest FCI is Fédération Cynologique Internationale and does not recognize NVBK pedigrees (http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...lack-malinois-breeder-brasil-23633/www.fci.be). The second FCI is Federación Canina Internacional (spanish organisation - http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...inois-breeder-brasil-23633/www.webfci.org)and is not related or affiliated to the 'real'/original FCI however they do recognise the NVBK dogs. 

when you go to the http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...lack-malinois-breeder-brasil-23633/www.fci.be website they clearly indicate that they do not recognize the Spanish Organization that 'shares' their name. I dont think the 'real' or 'original' FCI allows black malinois to be bred with or shown even though you might get pedigrees for them, there is a breed restriction as it stands here in South Africa.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jehane Michael Le Grange said:


> Two things here, firstly black malinois are obviously possible and can get FCI pedigrees but are breed restricted (i.e. they are not supposed to be bred with)


Jehane is correct that it's possible to have FCI pedigree "black Malinois" (short haird Groenendael \\/)

There are some FCI registeries that will allow them to be bred though, I believe Canada is one of them. And if the pup is registered as a Belgian Shepherd - Groenendael it could be bred without the registery being the wiser. I see this with Tervuren on a regular basis from working Malinois lines, the breeder registers them as Malinois as pups so they can stay in the Malinois gene pool, and nobody in the registry seems to catch on later down the road. A friend recently imported one from France that has been used for breeding, she's registered as a Malinois but is clearly a Terv.

All that said, looking at some of the pedigrees of some "FCI black Malinois" I call BS on those being the correct papers.

I also do not believe there is an FCI registry, associated with the real FCI, that is accepting NVBK papers. If there was, the entire NVBK issue would be resolved as papers could be funneled through that registry instead of being faked.


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> All that said, looking at some of the pedigrees of some "FCI black Malinois" I call BS on those being the correct papers.
> 
> I also do not believe there is an FCI registry, associated with the real FCI, that is accepting NVBK papers. If there was, the entire NVBK issue would be resolved as papers could be funneled through that registry instead of being faked.


Say I am just a guy that buys a Black Mali in Spain.
I submit a pedigree from FCI(Spain) to FCI(The Real One) because I want to compete in IPO in Holland.
Under Breed its says - Belge Malinois Noir.
Do they give me a FCI pedigree and say have fun?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jeff Wright said:


> Say I am just a guy that buys a Black Mali in Spain.
> I submit a pedigree from FCI(Spain) to FCI(The Real One) because I want to compete in IPO in Holland.
> Under Breed its says - Belge Malinois Noir.
> Do they give me a FCI pedigree and say have fun?


If by FCI(Spain) you mean the Federación Canina Internacional then no, they don't give you an Fédération Cynologique Internationale pedigree because they don't recognize the Federación Canina Internacional. 

This is directly from the official FCI (real) website:
*The Fédération Cynologique Internationale* (FCI) informs all its members and contract partners that it *holds no official relations with the Federación Canina Internacional and its members and* that it *does not recognise this Federación*.


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks Kari-That is what I knew had to be true.


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

This may be a totally stupid question but why would anyone care? Does black carry some kind of health risk?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Only in the dark, you can fall over them, lol.


I heard in shepherds blacks have more incidence of genetic nerve issues, I doubt its true, just another dog world myth is my guess.


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