# WD Titles and the AKC



## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Keith Jenkins said:


> Actually they do have something in place now to recognize most of the major IPO titles. It's not free but if you want them on AKC papers there is a way to make this happen now.
> 
> http://classic.akc.org/pdfs/events/working_dog_sport/record_title.pdf
> 
> ...


Sooo... Does this mean that a title earned at a USA club will not be recognized? I mean, they show WDA, DVG, AWMA and DCA but not USA.

Also, no ring titles of any type?

:-k


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

NO ring titles that I know of. As for USA I'm thinking you could call or write AKC and find out. I'm just guessing but the huge divide between USA and the WDA may have some influence on that. Political BS! ](*,) 
I have one for my SCH III GSD. It's called a Working Dog Title Certificate recorded as Master Level Schutzhund. 
His Companion Dog Excellent is a CDX. I have no idea what initials would be put behind his name to acknowledge this title.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Nope no ring titles and GSDCA/WDA is the go to organization for the GSD. Would anyone expect them to choose the USCA with the bad blood between them? AWDF had a fit because they wanted it's members to stand firm and not help the AKC as individuals for the titles. ARC went with the DVG instead of the USRC due largely the animosity between the the clubs. Personally I'm glad they went this route.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Keith Jenkins said:


> Nope no ring titles and GSDCA/WDA is the go to organization for the GSD. Would anyone expect them to choose the USCA with the bad blood between them?...


 My thoughts to this one...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Keith Jenkins said:


> Nope no ring titles and GSDCA/WDA is the go to organization for the GSD. Would anyone expect them to choose the USCA with the bad blood between them?


Sure wouldn't!!! After all, AKC/GSDCA would have MUCH preferred there was no schH in this country whatsoever, but THANKS to UScA, in fact schutzhund is alive and well in this country.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Sure wouldn't!!! After all, AKC/GSDCA would have MUCH preferred there was no schH in this country whatsoever, but THANKS to UScA, in fact schutzhund is alive and well in this country.


Wow and all this time I thought it was the handlers and decoys that kept this sport alive here...:roll:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Keith Jenkins said:


> Wow and all this time I thought it was the handlers and decoys that kept this sport alive here...:roll:


Split hairs all you want, the fact is, there would be no schH handlers, decoys or anything else in this country if it had been left up to AKC/GSDCA, but thanks to UScA, (made up of handlers, breeders, helpers, ,:roll::roll::roll: duh), AKC/GSDCA did NOT get what they wanted. In fact your precious WDA was started by UScA malcontents who's SOLE purpose in starting WDA was to destroy UScA. The nasty ass malcontents failed, but they are STILL bitter and are STILL trying and as long as WDA membership continues to place those same ****TARDS in positions of power that will remain their goal. Shit rolls down hill.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jessica Kromer said:


> Sooo... Does this mean that a title earned at a USA club will not be recognized? I mean, they show WDA, DVG, AWMA and DCA but not USA.
> 
> Also, no ring titles of any type?
> 
> :-k


IT's recognized by those that matter, like FCI and SV and AWDF, just not recognized by AKC/GSDCA, but nobody I know gives a rats ass what they think anyway!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

:lol: I don't even own a dog that is AKC registered anymore! I figured is was a political thing, but it sucks for the "little guy" that just wants to train and title their dog. The vast majority of trials around here are USA, so that leaves a lot of people screwed if the _did_ want to get the SCH scores on the AKC paper work. 

So is politics the reason behind the ring exclusion? I get that many dogs are not AKC, but many are... You'd think if they were going to relent and let one bite sport in, they'd let them all in.... #-o


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Forgive me, it just sometimes feels like some people want to take every opportunity to wish the organization ill will because of a certain amendment.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Split hairs all you want, the fact is, there would be no schH handlers, decoys or anything else in this country if it had been left up to AKC/GSDCA, but thanks to UScA, (made up of handlers, breeders, helpers, ,:roll::roll::roll: duh), AKC/GSDCA did NOT get what they wanted. In fact your precious WDA was started by UScA malcontents who's SOLE purpose in starting WDA was to destroy UScA. The nasty ass malcontents failed, but they are STILL bitter and are STILL trying and as long as WDA membership continues to place those same ****TARDS in positions of power that will remain their goal. Shit rolls down hill.


First off I'm not nor have I ever been a member of the WDA so to refer to them as "your precious WDA" is way off base. I simply don't have the same disdain for them as you seem too. I've trialed once at a WDA club and have seen several over the last few years and they ran smoothly and were judged no differently than I've seen for the last 24 years at UScA, DVG etc. 

Also it's bit elitist to think that the sole reason the sport has survived is attributed to the USCA. DVG has been here in the US for over 32 years. I've lost count the number of times I've heard USA people refer to the DVG as schutzhund lite. USA has more than their fair share of assholes. 

Let's be honest shall we?..If the UScA could figure out a way to destroy the WDA there would be plenty of people within that organization ready to pull the switch. This crap has been going on for 30 plus years so both sides have plenty of *malcontents* to go around.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say the SOLE reason, but I will say the primary reason is UScA. For whatever reason, DVG just doesn't have the presence in this country as it has in other countries, far fewer trials, far fewer clubs, and that's just the way it is, nothing "elitist" about it, just a fact of life.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say the SOLE reason, but I will say the primary reason is UScA. For whatever reason, DVG just doesn't have the presence in this country as it has in other countries, far fewer trials, far fewer clubs, and that's just the way it is, nothing "elitist" about it, just a fact of life.


P.S. Sorry I said "your precious WDA", wasn't fair of me nor was it accurate.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Jessica Kromer said:


> So is politics the reason behind the ring exclusion? I get that many dogs are not AKC, but many are... You'd think if they were going to relent and let one bite sport in, they'd let them all in.... #-o


Jessica, not everything is a conspiracy or politics. None of he ring clubs have approached the AKC to have their titles recognized. Nor has UScA for that matter. ;-)


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

AKC parent clubs will be the ones who apply to the AKC for approval of titles and which organization they would like to use. 

Realistically any other breeds that present a request to the AKC will probably either go with a breed specific club within the AWDF or the DVG. I'm not sure the AKC would approve the USCA for any remaining a-typical dogs that would do the sport even if asked. 

ARC does not have plans at this time to request any RING titles to be recorded. Can't speak for the other breeds already approved.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Keith that still does not mean that USCA or any other organization can't make a separate agreement with the AKC.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Don't hold your breath waiting for the AKC to make a deal with UScA (A GSD breed club) when they already have an agreement with their own GSD breed club GSDCA.

When the AKC was looking at starting the WDS program a couple of UScA Judges applied to head it. I wonder how things would have turned out if one of them was chosen to run the program?


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Everyone that thinks the AKC is going to cut a back room deal with the UScA or any other AWDF group at the risk of pissing off parent clubs to the #2, #10 and #13 dog registered by them raise your hand? 

If they are approached by the UScA it doesn't stay hidden in the closet. Nothing is decided like this without going before the BOD and/or AKC delegates. Neither can pass gass without it being recorded in the official minutes which are published usually within a couple of weeks of the meeting. Add the fact that nothing happens fast within the AKC and you can make a sure bet that there will plenty of time to contact parent clubs and delegates. One more thing to clinch the deal, AKC spent a lot of time and money trying to get the AKC Working Dog Sport off the ground and to say the UScA was less than amicable would be the understatement of this century.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Christopher Smith said:


> Jessica, not everything is a conspiracy or politics. None of he ring clubs have approached the AKC to have their titles recognized.


Actually when I was on the Board of Directors for NARA in 2010 I was working with ABMC and through them AKC to get French Ring titles recognized. We were getting fairly close to finishing things up, were down to discussing the $ end of things, when a new Board came in. I handed the project over to the new Board of Directors, I don't know what became of it after that. I believe they dropped it.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

With the anti biting dog sentiment on the AKC side.
The anti AKC sentiment on the Working Dog side
and then throw in all the UScA vs GSDCA with the SV stirring the pot playing one against the other. It's a freaking miracle that IPO titles earned at designated trials are allowed on AKC pedigrees now.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Keith Jenkins said:


> , AKC spent a lot of time and money trying to get the AKC Working Dog Sport off the ground and to say the UScA was less than amicable would be the understatement of this century.


Having been directly involved in the 1st DPCA WDS trial in Colorado Springs (2003). I can verify that. The biggest local UScA club boycotted the event when the UDC was chosen to run the trial instead of their club. Both of the decoys were threatened and attempted to be intimidated. The judge Bill Knox had his UScA judging license pulled. Understatement of the year for sure :-(


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> It's a freaking miracle that IPO titles earned at designated trials are allowed on AKC pedigrees now.


Yeah and that miracle happened because we didn't listen to the negative people that told us it could never happen.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm not sure who was more negative the conformation AKC people or the UScA people? :-(


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

To be honest we have had nothing but encouragement from the conformation people. I think we were welcomed by them because we did something that most people people in bitesports fail to do...we talked to them. :what:


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Conformation Malinois is an oxymoron, isn't it?


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