# Patterdales hard at work



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

So in addition to my small breed terrier contract that I am working on. I have added a couple real killing machines to the kennel. Here are a few pictures taken of some ***** that were found in the barn eating our corn. These dogs are tooooo much fun!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

a few more pictures. I have some good video too, but it is too long to upload it from here. it may also be a little too graphic for some people to watch.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

I'm impressed Mike  ***** can be quite nasty! Pound for pound you'd think the **** would have the upper hand?!

A couple questions though...are these ***** out during the day?! I'd be a little concerned if that's the case...aren't they noctural?! Most noctural animals that are seen during the day are either sick and/or poisoned.

Anyway good job on the Patts


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## Tamara Villagomez (Nov 28, 2009)

AWESOME!! I would love to see video those are some impressive dogs there!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> I'm impressed Mike  ***** can be quite nasty! Pound for pound you'd think the **** would have the upper hand?!
> 
> A couple questions though...are these ***** out during the day?! I'd be a little concerned if that's the case...aren't they noctural?! Most noctural animals that are seen during the day are either sick and/or poisoned.
> 
> Anyway good job on the Patts


they sleep during the day..........until I showed up with the dogs, then they were scattering like roaches. We saw about 8 this morning, we caught these two. The dogs get banged up a little, but they are tough as hell. I will give them a few days to recover and go back to the barn for another raid.
These pictures were taken in the hayfield just in front of the barn. We just baled the hay so the ***** have no cover when they run from the barn. we have a bin full of sweet feed in the barn and the ***** are in there all the time. We loose hundreds of pounds of feed each year to the *****. but now I think I have found a remedy.
***** are like little Grizzly bears really. Not many 15 lb dogs can kill a 15lb **** by himself. It takes the dog about 5 minutes to finish the job if he does it alone. If I use two dogs, it takes about 2 minutes. These ***** were a little smaller than the dogs, but I saw some very large ***** run from the barn today. We will get them in a few days I'm sure. 
i will keep posting pictures until I am ask to stop. LOL


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

your first pic of the patterdale looks like a staffy bull.,, built like a tank ,,


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> your first pic of the patterdale looks like a staffy bull.,, built like a tank ,,


 they are like picking up a brick. Solid muscle from head to tail. The teeth are the size of a 80 lb Mali.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Can they not be trapped and relocated?


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

love to see a good **** fight. now all you need is a hound to go with it. trade you a bluetick for a dutchie. haha.:-D


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Can they not be trapped and relocated?




only in california


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

A **** is tough in deep water. Water over a dogs head.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

at a recent PSA tournament there was a guy with a really nice 35lb black pitbull, it really did nice work and everyone was impressed, cool novelty too, reminded me a lot of my staffy bull but in better shape


makes me wonder what would happen if you crossed a 15lb patterdale to a 35lb pit


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

You would get a pitterdale


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Im calling one from the first litter (although a coyote dog would be handier in AZ


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Matt Grosch said:


> only in california


good one Matt!


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## Steven Stroupes (Apr 3, 2009)

That's AWESOME! Keep the pics coming Mike.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Can they not be trapped and relocated?


they are TRAPPED in the jaws of the dog, and RELOCATED to raccoon heaven a few minutes later.
I suppose they could be caught in a hav- a- hart trap and turned loose on one of my neighbors farms for them to kill it, but where is the fun in that? 
No, the dogs prefer this method....and to be honest, I do too.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

The idea of hunting with dogs brings all sorts of emotions with people. Here in Australia its really only done with wild pigs, and these can gore the best dogs and kill them. The interesting thing here is that few people go with straight pits or bulldogs. They tend to be crosses and get termed "pigdogs".
A dog on a wild animal in the wild is not an issue, for me anyway, but I do find it a little unfair when people who are training their pigdogs get a little domesticated piglett, have it in a small yard and send the dog into kill it. 
Good action pics tho Mike. Gerben sent me some photos of the results of Patterdales hunting in Holland.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Relocation doesn't work very well as they are very territorial and will often just try and return. It also can spread disease into a different bunch of animals.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> Relocation doesn't work very well as they are very territorial and will often just try and return. It also can spread disease into a different bunch of animals.


yeah, that............and it is just too damn much fun to exterminate them with the dogs.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> The idea of hunting with dogs brings all sorts of emotions with people. Here in Australia its really only done with wild pigs, and these can gore the best dogs and kill them. The interesting thing here is that few people go with straight pits or bulldogs. They tend to be crosses and get termed "pigdogs".
> A dog on a wild animal in the wild is not an issue, for me anyway, but I do find it a little unfair when people who are training their pigdogs get a little domesticated piglett, have it in a small yard and send the dog into kill it.
> Good action pics tho Mike. Gerben sent me some photos of the results of Patterdales hunting in Holland.


 
I tend to agree with this, I believe they call it 'Hot Dogging'?

Hunting with dogs in the UK is banned now (hey Don, you reading this lol? ), I think what makes it more gruesome is that pigs can take a lot of killing (personal experience in Australia). I don't like set up contrived shit for entertainment sake, I've had jrts which I've kept for pest control, same with my cat, is the only reason I have a cat but I don't enjoy the spectacle.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Jerry Lyda said:


> You would get a pitterdale


or a Pitterpat, according to Bob... :lol:


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> they sleep during the day..........until I showed up with the dogs, then they were scattering like roaches. We saw about 8 this morning, we caught these two. The dogs get banged up a little, but they are tough as hell. I will give them a few days to recover and go back to the barn for another raid.
> These pictures were taken in the hayfield just in front of the barn. We just baled the hay so the ***** have no cover when they run from the barn. we have a bin full of sweet feed in the barn and the ***** are in there all the time. We loose hundreds of pounds of feed each year to the *****. but now I think I have found a remedy.
> ***** are like little Grizzly bears really. Not many 15 lb dogs can kill a 15lb **** by himself. It takes the dog about 5 minutes to finish the job if he does it alone. If I use two dogs, it takes about 2 minutes. These ***** were a little smaller than the dogs, but I saw some very large ***** run from the barn today. We will get them in a few days I'm sure.
> i will keep posting pictures until I am ask to stop. LOL


This makes more sense...than just hanging out during the day waiting on the "wrecking crew" to show up \\/

I've seen bigger dogs (ie **** hounds) pack on a mother **** and get whipped! Nasty critters.

Keep posting Mike ;-) I think it's great that you can use dogs to rid your farm of varmits. I'm sure the dogs enjoyed every minute of what they were bred to do. Farm dogs have jobs to do and I just love it when they do it well.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> makes me wonder what would happen if you crossed a 15lb patterdale to a 35lb pit


You get a Siam Bull, or something real close to that if you want to give it a name. What I mean, is that someone is presently already working that angle and thus far it appears to be with relatively good success particularly in the pulling arena. None to my knowledge are actively being worked on critters but I don't doubt the ability is there.

Mike, I like them little dogs of yours.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Can they not be trapped and relocated?


 
Ya, then Mike can start making them into show dogs. Great idea!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Mike's got it tough.

"Hmmmm....Hornady 17HMR, or dogs today? Hmmm"


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> Mike's got it tough.
> 
> "Hmmmm....Hornady 17HMR, or dogs today? Hmmm"


 I would never use a rifle and ruin the fun for the dogs, would not be fair to them at all.
Rifles are great, but if the dogs can kill it that is even better. besides ammo is expensive and you saw my gun room Howard......I dont have much ammo.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Ahem...I beg to differ. You don't have many dogs compared to the ammo.:grin: Farging bastage!=D>

I'm surprised you haven't concocted some super secret, heat seeking, shoots around corners and explodes kind of round in that laboratory you call a gun room...Bastage!


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

I love seeing a dog do what it was designed to do....outstanding! Up to these last few Patterdale posts, I had not ever heard of them. And to think I thought my Cairn who dug out mice was a bad ass. :roll:


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> only in california



how would this go over in California?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fheM6rNhKGY&feature=related


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> So in addition to my small breed terrier contract that I am working on. I have added a couple real killing machines to the kennel. Here are a few pictures taken of some ***** that were found in the barn eating our corn. These dogs are tooooo much fun!


Won't be long now Mike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa55fyglRyg&feature=related


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

I really like these _Jagdterrier's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wWEs83x4kg&feature=related

When I was in Holland Carmen had a few. There skin is so tough they couldn't get a microchip in them :-o
_


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Won't be long now Mike.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa55fyglRyg&feature=related


WTF??
That was like a fight, but in slow motion. LOL


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> how would this go over in California?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fheM6rNhKGY&feature=related


About like this went over in Arizona \\/


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> I really like these _Jagdterrier's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wWEs83x4kg&feature=related_
> 
> _When I was in Holland Carmen had a few. There skin is so tough they couldn't get a microchip in them :-o_


Yeah, I have a couple Jagds coming in soon too. It is hard to find them smaller than 20 lbs to fill this contract though. But they have the drive and intensity of any good Patterdale.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> WTF??
> That was like a fight, but in slow motion. LOL


That's a terrier hunting party. See you there next year LOL.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Candy Eggert said:


> About like this went over in Arizona \\/


This statement is in no way political! That's great! Is that sign real?


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> This statement is in no way political! That's great! Is that sign real?


Sent to me by a resident of Arizona...so let's just say it's 'real'. So therfore NOT political ;-)~ And I live in LA Trick :razz:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> That's a terrier hunting party. See you there next year LOL.


Is that what that was?? I saw a jagd running around for a second in that clip, but I did not realize it was a terrier hunting party. Well shit then......sign me up. I noticed a shotgun and several axes in the trees, I was hoping someone would go for one of those weapons. I like drunken parties where firearms are present.:razz: Even better if it is a drunken dog party with firearms and axes!!


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Candy Eggert said:


> Sent to me by a resident of Arizona...so let's just say it's 'real'. So therfore NOT political ;-)~ And I live in LA Trick :razz:


Oh no you didn't girlfriend [-X I don't flip tricks but I keep my pimp hand strong and won't hesitate to split a wig open.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> I really like these _Jagdterrier's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wWEs83x4kg&feature=related
> 
> When I was in Holland Carmen had a few. There skin is so tough they couldn't get a microchip in them :-o
> _



Those crazy Ruskies!#-o


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Is that what that was?? I saw a jagd running around for a second in that clip, but I did not realize it was a terrier hunting party. Well shit then......sign me up. I noticed a shotgun and several axes in the trees, I was hoping someone would go for one of those weapons. I like drunken parties where firearms are present.:razz: Even better if it is a drunken dog party with firearms and axes!!


I can see it now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677x2N5bzww&feature=related


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> I can see it now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677x2N5bzww&feature=related


LOL....I think those pictures were taken at our last seminar. \\/


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Matt Grosch said:


> at a recent PSA tournament there was a guy with a really nice 35lb black pitbull, it really did nice work and everyone was impressed, cool novelty too, reminded me a lot of my staffy bull but in better shape
> 
> 
> makes me wonder what would happen if you crossed a 15lb patterdale to a 35lb pit


It's been done. It's called a Pitter-Pats I can find out who is doing it. I believe they are using them for hunting boar.

Hubby is totally impressed.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

I'm truly humbled and totally fascinated by these little gladiators.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Oh no you didn't girlfriend [-X I don't flip tricks but I keep my pimp hand strong and won't hesitate to split a wig open.


roflmao....I can't stop laughing!


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

Mike,

I missed the mostly naked lass in the thong laying on the table... how did that happen?

Time to put your Pats on a nice big buck ****...


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

I've seen mature boar ***** send 100lb catch dogs back to the truck pissin all over themselves, these little fekkers simply defy logic.
I think I gotta have one..............


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Candy Eggert said:


> About like this went over in Arizona \\/


Hahaha, I remember seeing a billboard sign (photo of it) with a picture of George Bush poking his head around the corner and saying "Miss me yet?"
I thought that was pretty funny.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> It's been done. It's called a Pitter-Pats I can find out who is doing it. I believe they are using them for hunting boar.
> 
> Hubby is totally impressed.




found them (and looks like they agree with my boston terrier- pit bull connection)


http://endofthelinekennel.com/


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> It's been done. It's called a Pitter-Pats I can find out who is doing it. I believe they are using them for hunting boar.
> 
> Hubby is totally impressed.


It's also a common mix being done/used in flyball :-o Although the "borderjack" (BC/Jack Russel) still seems to be more of a favorite.

I've seen a few doing bitework, cool little dogs. We have a couple people in our FR club with Patterdales and Jagds, cool little dogs.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

adding pit blood etc is too easy im more impressed with the guys who have been breeding these dogs for decades and swear there has been no crosses into pits etc if its true i think its awesome but either way those dogs are just wicked.mike your tan-ish coloured terrier looks very patterdale- "terrier" like but the black just looks like a staff cross is there any other pics to have a better look at him?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

brad robert said:


> adding pit blood etc is too easy im more impressed with the guys who have been breeding these dogs for decades and swear there has been no crosses into pits etc if its true i think its awesome but either way those dogs are just wicked.mike your tan-ish coloured terrier looks very patterdale- "terrier" like but the black just looks like a staff cross is there any other pics to have a better look at him?


I have a black broken coat female, a smooth coat brown male, and the black and tan female who are all very much Patterdale Terrier with very strong Nutall bloodlines. The smooth coat black male is a Booth line dog, I suspect there is a trace of Pit in him down the line somewhere, he has a head like a 50 lb Labrador, not normal for a dog his size. He is a little bigger than the others (as all Booth dogs are bigger). He and the black and tan one have zero ball drive, I mean they simply will not look at a ball. But their drive and ability to kill shit is simply amazing. Those two are here just for hunting. While the other two are as crazy over a ball as any Malinois.
I just love these little dogs to death. But just like with a Dutch Malinois, I am not silly enough to pretend they are really a purbred dog. The guys who are serious about these dogs breed what works great with what works better in order to produce a small breed terrier they can hunt with. They breed for themselves, not for you or me, and they dont care about what is mixed in with them, as long as they as are small, they hunt, and never quit in the fight.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What were those *****, like a month old ?? Need to get video of them on an old boar about 40 pounds. THose little things didn't even know to fight.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What were those *****, like a month old ?? Need to get video of them on an old boar about 40 pounds. THose little things didn't even know to fight.


I'll admit they were not big ***** for sure. I had no control over which two we caught that day. But we saw many ***** running from the barn when we did our entry. Some of them were pretty big and I am sure that as I type this at 4:45 a.m. they are back in the barn feasting on our corn. We will get to the bigger ones soon enough Jeff. I want to give the dogs a few days to recover and we will go back with cameras blazing to get some more action shots. My neighbor called me last night to ask If I could bring the dogs to his barn soon, so it seems like I live in a target rich environment. I am sure we will run into a large angry boar soon enough.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So. You were a pogue were you not ?? How the **** do you do an "entry" with all the bad guys running out the back door ?? LOL

Need to work on your tactics. [-([-([-([-([-(


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Sorry, I crack myself up. "Entry" was killing me.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sorry, I crack myself up. "Entry" was killing me.


LOL, no worries. I used the word "entry" just for you. This game of dog and **** is played one **** at a time, so the others can escape and live until the next game. 
I went in one side of the barn with one dog and got one ****. Then I went in the other side of the barn with another dog and got another ****. 
In a few days I will go back and get one **** per dog while the others escape out the back to live another day. You see, I dont want to get them all in one day. 
They are not dangerous criminals (but they are corn stealing terrorists). They can live a little longer in the spirit of the game.
As for this game between you and I. I must take a time out for now, it is 6 am and I have to deliver a group of dogs to US Customs today. I will get some more pictures and mabye some short video of the next assault on the corn crib.


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Great pictures, very cool to see them in action


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> I tend to agree with this, I believe they call it 'Hot Dogging'?
> 
> Hunting with dogs in the UK is banned now (hey Don, you reading this lol? ), I think what makes it more gruesome is that pigs can take a lot of killing (personal experience in Australia). I don't like set up contrived shit for entertainment sake, I've had jrts which I've kept for pest control, same with my cat, is the only reason I have a cat but I don't enjoy the spectacle.


Yeah Maggie's right imo. It's kind of an unspoken rule that terrier work not be posted up like this. The reason is that earthwork is rapidly being limited and banned all over the place because people think that all terriermen let their dogs savage quarry instead of opting for a quick kill (in the case of pests and/or dieased critters) or released for us to pursue again some other day.

The patterdale is used more commonly for a kill dog than most other terriers because they are known to be silent hard dogs. Jack Russells are known as soft baying terreirs. Jack Russells are preferred for any situation where the terrierman prefers to decide the fate of the quarry. A jack will sit down and bay loudly and nonstop after cornering the quarry, allowing the terrierman to triangulate the baying and dig down in front of the dog, block it from the quarry with a shovel and do whatever he is inclined to do with the beast.

A patterdale and other hard terriers are more likely to corner the quarry, bite it and not leave off until either dog or quarry is done for. It's impossible to dig to such dogs and so dog and quarry are pretty much left to their own devices in the earth. Good luck to the dog if it gets into trouble without a locater collar or where a locater collar isn't coming through to the box. With this sort of dog, usually the pelt is useless afterwards and obviously there's no having the animal around for another day's sport.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

In addition to natural earthwork I've done a lot of **** hunting in barns and abandoned farm houses.
This REALLY gives a meaning to a full, deep grip. When the quarry is larger (***** in particular) a lot of dogs get nothing but hair and loose hide. The **** simply turns in it's own loose hide and grabs the dog. 
Hunting in abandoned farm houses can really be a trip. The ***** run around in the floorboards and walls of the house and whoever's dog finds the ****, the owner gets to tail the ****. (Snatch it out of the hole by its tail)
You can tail a ground hog over 12- 14 lbs cause their to heavy to curl back on you. The small ones you have to keep shaking or the get you. ***** you grab and toss....really,REALLY fast. :-o8-[ :lol: :lol: 
Possum and fox you just scruff. They both just freeze up.........usually. :twisted:
***** aren't fast on the run but they are quick as a cat in a conflict with a dog and they can hang on to a bite like a bulldog.
In the ground, NEVER more then one dog. The confined space will just get the first dog shoved into the quarry. 
The Pittypat is fairly common at some of the bigger weight pull events for the same reason the JRT?Border Collie crosses are seen at flyball. They excell in the smalle weight/height classes.
The Nuttal lines go back to Buck and Brey breeding and both put a bit of Staffy Bull in their lines. Thus the nice heads.
Look at the true working terriers much as the KNVP Mals. You breed worker to worker! 
You'll see a lot of JRTs with a wavy coat. That often shows a Lakeland in the mix as does the real "varmity" expression in some JRTs. 
The Patterdale comes from the the Norther GB area where dogs are bred to kill and not bay as the true JRT does.The ground is to hard and rocky (fells) to dig and the fox are large (18-20+ lbs).


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> walls of the house and whoever's dog finds the ****, the owner gets to tail the ****. (Snatch it out of the hole by its tail)


 
You say this like it's an honor..... damn'd if I will ever grab a racoon by the tail! That's what they make big sticks for!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Yeah Maggie's right imo. It's kind of an unspoken rule that terrier work not be posted up like this. The reason is that earthwork is rapidly being limited and banned all over the place because people think that all terriermen let their dogs savage quarry


Well, I am not a "terrierman", and I guess because of that I am unaware of any unspoken rules. However the few real "terriermen" that I know are very happy to put pictures way worse than mine up for the public to view. I dont do this for a sport really, I do it to rid my barn of *****. But I also have a hell of a lot of fun in the process. I choose not to kill them all at once, but i do plan to kill them all for 100% sure. They are a pest to us here, and they cost us money. 
I am not interested in saving the life of a **** in the name of "sport". I am more interested in saving the wiring on the tractors, the corn, and the barn from the damage that these little monsters can do.
I will post more pictures and likely some video unless I am ask not dog my a moderator. 
If it offends anyone, they are welcome to not look at the thread. I will make the threads very clear in the subject heading that it will contain pictures of critters being killed by dogs.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> Well, I am not a "terrierman", and I guess because of that I am unaware of any unspoken rules. However the few real "terriermen" that I know are very happy to put pictures way worse than mine up for the public to view. I dont do this for a sport really, I do it to rid my barn of *****. But I also have a hell of a lot of fun in the process. I choose not to kill them all at once, but i do plan to kill them all for 100% sure. They are a pest to us here, and they cost us money.
> I am not interested in saving the life of a **** in the name of "sport". I am more interested in saving the wiring on the tractors, the corn, and the barn from the damage that these little monsters can do.
> I will post more pictures and likely some video unless I am ask not dog my a moderator.
> If it offends anyone, they are welcome to not look at the thread. I will make the threads very clear in the subject heading that it will contain pictures of critters being killed by dogs.


How would you feel if you were to be contributing to unwarranted and interfering attention ? Do you ordinarily keep terriers for essential pest control ? Do you have the time and inclination to get battling with those who think it should not be happening ?

Just food for thought.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

maggie fraser said:


> How would you feel if you were to be contributing to unwarranted and interfering attention ? Do you ordinarily keep terriers for essential pest control ? Do you have the time and inclination to get battling with those who think it should not be happening ?
> 
> Just food for thought.


until recently I did not keep terriers for pest control. i used to just shoot the ***** when I saw them. But since they come out only at night, it was hard to see them and shoot them. No, I dont have time to battle any of the PETA folks, nor do I plan on wasting any time doing that. I will kill the vermin around here just like I have done for years, and like my father, grandfather , and great grandfather did. 
I have had to shoot horses who broke a leg in a groundhog hole and we have also broken axels on hay wagons from large groundhog holes, I have had to pay hundreds of dollars to repair farm equipment that was damaged by *****, I have lost hundreds if not thousands of punds of livestock feed over the years to *****, possums, and other critters. We have lost calves to coyotes, and chickens to foxes.
The DNR says our farm has over 10 deer per acre and an ideal number is about 1 per acre, so we have a lot of crop damage permits for deer as well.
I dont really care what PETA thinks, or any other animal rights activists. I am not breaking any game laws. There is also no law against having fun while we rid the farm of these pests. Nor is it illegal to post pictures of it. Again, if the mods ask me to stop i will. And if anyone is offended they dont have to look.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Only reason I mention is due to the interest and enthusiasm exhibited here, makes no difference to me, just wonder where is the value in graphically raising the profile that's all. We're no strangers to terriers in this part of the world.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

maggie fraser said:


> Only reason I mention is due to the interest and enthusiasm exhibited here, makes no difference to me, just wonder where is the value in graphically raising the profile that's all. We're no strangers to terriers in this part of the world.


 I do see your point Maggie, for sure. But this is a working dog forum, and it even has a "hunting" section. People must know that animals die when "hunting" happens, so if they come to this forum and go to the hunting section they should expect that. I know that PETA threw a big fit over earth dog trials in UK with badgers.
Here in WV, PETA does not come around much. We have a lot of land to bury strangers who cause trouble around here, plus I have a very large meat grinder and 40 Malinois can eat 180 lbs of ground protester pretty fast.:-D


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

:lol: Badgers are now protected by law. I quite fancy the birds of prey, I think you're allowed rabbits and mice and lots of red tape .


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

mike suttle said:


> Well, I am not a "terrierman", and I guess because of that I am unaware of any unspoken rules. However the few real "terriermen" that I know are very happy to put pictures way worse than mine up for the public to view. I dont do this for a sport really, I do it to rid my barn of *****. But I also have a hell of a lot of fun in the process. I choose not to kill them all at once, but i do plan to kill them all for 100% sure. They are a pest to us here, and they cost us money.
> I am not interested in saving the life of a **** in the name of "sport". I am more interested in saving the wiring on the tractors, the corn, and the barn from the damage that these little monsters can do.
> I will post more pictures and likely some video unless I am ask not dog my a moderator.
> If it offends anyone, they are welcome to not look at the thread. I will make the threads very clear in the subject heading that it will contain pictures of critters being killed by dogs.


As far as I can tell raccoons are a pain in the arse everywhere. If I was in your situation, I'd be there clearing them too. 

Just sayin that there's serious terrier people (aka terriermen and women) who are in danger of losing their sport and pics like yours don't help them keep it. Also, I think there are new laws against depicting animals in pain in videos and pics, and that's something for you and the owner of the board to consider.

Sorry if I came off as a jerk. Part of the reason is probably because I'm breed blind and really don't like Patterdales much lol.

edit: Also, the few people who really understand and utilize earthdogs for pest control stand to lose a great tool for clearing groundhogs and racooons,


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Perhaps over there they do, but thats always the euro solution, "when in doubt, BAN IT".

The breeders that breed these dogs here all have scores of photos far more graphic than these posted on their sites, I spent about an hour perusing all of them.
The ***** around here are also a menace to farming, they wreak havoc and have no natural predators, even a coyote wont try one because the risk of injury outweighs the meal.
They even climb the damn poles and eat the birdseed right out of the feeders, and demolish them in the process.

In south FL they are absolute monsters, and the numbers are insane, they routinely eat dog and cat food right out of bowls in backyards with old fido sitting there watching, one 5 second attack is usually enough to teach most dogs to never try that again.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> Here in WV, PETA does not come around much. We have a lot of land to bury strangers who cause trouble around here, plus I have a very large meat grinder and 40 Malinois can eat 180 lbs of ground protester pretty fast.:-D


Also known as "West By God Virginia" ;-) If anyone thinks that's bad wait until the "revenuer" comes a knocking :lol:


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

As far as racoons go, you're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned Drew, but the fact that there are lots of pics like this doesn't convince me that they don't work against hunting with terriers. And if as you are right to point out, raccoons are nasty in a fight why would you enjoy having your dog mixi it up with one? Why not just blow its brains out and save the vet bills? 
Oh and yeah raccoons bite and scratch like a mother but hearing my terriers scream after a big old dog fox had taken about half her head in his mouth made me sick. She was left with deep punctures canine punctures that took forever to heal, 

And theres good reason to fear the mighty groundhog as well lol. When they bite through the top of the muzzle with those ugly front teeth of theirs a terrier in the earth can suffocate in its own blood.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Nice to see those dogs are working for ya Mike. Can't wait to see new pics in the future! Although I really love fantasy pics


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Why not just blow its brains out?
> raccoons bite and scratch like a mother but hearing my terriers scream after a big old dog fox had taken about half her head in his mouth made me sick. She was left with deep punctures canine punctures that took forever to heal,
> 
> And theres good reason to fear the mighty groundhog as well lol. When they bite through the top of the muzzle with those ugly front teeth of theirs a terrier in the earth can suffocate in its own blood.


now your turning me on!!!!=P~


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Isn't it true that the rabies vaccination is not 100% fail-safe, even a dog that has been vaccinated against rabies can sometimes still contract the disease from the bites of an infected animal, and isn't there a problem with rabies and raccoons in parts of Virginia?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Isn't it true that the rabies vaccination is not 100% fail-safe, even a dog that has been vaccinated against rabies can sometimes still contract the disease from the bites of an infected animal, and isn't there a problem with rabies and raccoons in parts of Virginia?


My vet sees 1 or 2 cases of rabies every few years in his clinic. if a dog is bitten by a suspected rabid critter they always re-vaccinate the dog right away. he said he has not lost a dog that was bitten by a rabid animal in several years, but of course I am sure it can happen.
The odds are so low that for me it is not even an issue. 
That is the same reason I take my puppies out into the town at 4 weeks old to meet people, I just dont worry about diseases. For me the benifit outweighs the risk. 
I have seen one animal with rabies in WV in my life (a fox about 20 years ago when I was in the Marines and home on leave one August) It was so obvious that the fox was very sick there was no question about it. If I ever see a critter in that kind of shape I will obviously not put a dog on it.
My dogs dont live in a glass bubble, if they get hurt I try to fix them, sometimes I can and sometimes I cant.
Hell, even my two little boys run around this farm like wild Indians and I dont worry about them getting hurt.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hunting critters with dogs varies State by State. 
As an old (retired) terrierman I have no problems with the pics but maybe the comments can be less...errrr...gleeful. ;-)
It would be a shame to creat problems for WDF .
As with objectional TV stations the hunting forum may be one to avoid for those that may find it "less then interesting" to view

Mike is correct about the damage they can do. **** can spoil a lot of stored hay by crapping/pissing on it. That can also create an illness in horses that feed off of contaminated hay. 
One groundhoug can eat a 1/4 acre of new soybean shoots in the early season. The summer dens (usually shallower) can cave in undeer the weight of tractors, etc and create a lot of equiptment damage as can the holes on livestock legs. I've hunted a lot of Kentucky horse farms in the past for this very reason.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matthew Grubb said:


> You say this like it's an honor..... damn'd if I will ever grab a racoon by the tail! That's what they make big sticks for!


  Born and raised in the hood but the ******* games just get a grip on me now and then.:lol:
Hanging upside down in the hole your digging when the critter decides to climb out is REALLY a blast. Just stay very, very, did I say very still. If you can do that then, at worst, they just piss all over you as they climb up your back and out of the hole. 
Panic and start flailing away and they GOTCHA! :lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Our laws are a bit different here. All natural animals, except Dingos and most fish are protected. You can only kill them to survive or with a permit. So no Koala or Roo killing for the ordinary folk. However we have tons of ferals (introduced animals) which are open prey. Camels, Water Buffalo, Wild Pigs, Donkies, Deer, Dogs, Foxes, Rabbits, Cats and Goats. These animals really screw up our ecosystem, so noone cares what you do to them.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

ya'll terrier folk are crazy. digging out a pissed off raccon and snatching it up by the tail is not on my list of things to do anytime soon. i would just shoot them. i shot plenty of them when living up in the mountains. they get real big out where i was and my dog loved to tree them...i was always afriad the big ones (i have seen old males that wiehged in over 30lbs) could tear him up so i would just pull the ruger single six w/ the 22mag cylinder in it. always did the trick and my hands got no where near the vile beasts.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> Our laws are a bit different here. All natural animals, except Dingos and most fish are protected. You can only kill them to survive or with a permit. So no Koala or Roo killing for the ordinary folk. However we have tons of ferals (introduced animals) which are open prey. Camels, Water Buffalo, Wild Pigs, Donkies, Deer, Dogs, Foxes, Rabbits, Cats and Goats. These animals really screw up our ecosystem, so noone cares what you do to them.


My neighbor up the road a few miles has a dairy farm. Everyone thinks that is the place to dump all unwanted cats for some reason. (I guess they think that the kitties will have unlimited access to warm milk, LOL) Anyway, when my **** problem is fixed in a few weeks, I plan on heading up to his farm to do some feral cat killing with the Patterdales.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> Our laws are a bit different here. All natural animals, except Dingos and most fish are protected. You can only kill them to survive or with a permit. So no Koala or Roo killing for the ordinary folk. However we have tons of ferals (introduced animals) which are open prey. Camels, Water Buffalo, Wild Pigs, Donkies, Deer, Dogs, Foxes, Rabbits, Cats and Goats. These animals really screw up our ecosystem, so noone cares what you do to them.


I can see some fun in shooting Kangaroo but KoaLa don't they just sit and look around


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

mike suttle said:


> now your turning me on!!!!=P~


 JEEESUUUSSSS! MEN!l LMAO!


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

mike suttle said:


> My neighbor up the road a few miles has a dairy farm. Everyone thinks that is the place to dump all unwanted cats for some reason. (I guess they think that the kitties will have unlimited access to warm milk, LOL) Anyway, when my **** problem is fixed in a few weeks, I plan on heading up to his farm to do some feral cat killing with the Patterdales.


Sheesh Mike, you remind me of my dad. He and his brothers hunted and fished for the table during the depression and when he didn't have to do it anymore it was like he just needed to kill something every little while. Lol one of the funniest memories I have of him is him and my mom running across a sugar beet field trying to get a clear shot at a wolverine. Woe be to the critter who showed itself if it was fair game. He was a sportsman though and never hunted out of season. Oh and the wolverine got away haha.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

> i used to just shoot the ***** when I saw them. But since they come out only at night, it was hard to see them and shoot them.


Doesn't look very dark in these photos to me. 8-[



I don't have a problem with hunting, and I am certainly no animal rights activist or PeTA supporter, but I guess what I'm finding so offensive about this is statements like this:



> I also have a hell of a lot of fun in the process.


You're getting satisfaction out of watching one animal kill another. To me, this is really no different than pitting dogs or roosters against one another. This is what is a bit upsetting/unnerving to me. 

I do understand that they are considered pests and do cause a lot of damage; I do. I would have to find some other solution than this, though. I'd have no issue if they were shot and killed. Hell, I'd have no issue if you trapped them and shot them while they were in the trap! At least it would be a quick and (relatively) painless kill! Cheaper, too! No extra dog food to buy, no Vet bills (or home doctoring bills) for dogs that got tore up during the fight, and no worries about spread of disease from quarry to dog!

I just don't like the fact that you gain so much enjoyment out of watching your dogs do it. That bothers me. 

I also don't like this comment:



> If it offends anyone, they are welcome to not look at the thread.


I get your point, but again, this is really no different than telling people not to look at pictures/stories/etc. of pitbull fighting, or animal neglect/abuse, etc. if it bothers them. Not looking does not make the problem go away. 

To me, siccing a dog, or pack of dogs, on another animal, pest or not, is a form animal abuse.


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## Charles Guyer (Nov 6, 2009)

Every predator on my Grandpa's farm had a bounty on it. Feral cats and this 1 old grey fox were Grandpa's most hated enemies as they were the greatest threat to the yard birds and his few pet coveys of bobwhites. I and every other kid in the area got $1 for every cat we brought him,though we never managed to get that fox. Makes me chuckle to think about the look on his face when he'd see that damned fox or a cat on a fencepost. Reading this thread prompted me to go pull out the old single shot H&R topper .410. It's probably bagged more cats than rabbits, squirrels, and birds combined.


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## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

@ Kristen - would it be animal abuse if the farm dog happened upon the **** on its own time and no siccing was involved. Only to have Ol'Mike come walking around the corner and see his dog doing his job and earning his feed? Then Ol'Mike looks at his dog with unabashed pride and gives 'sparky' a Ada Boy? 

Just Sayin.


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## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

I always hear us talking about people trying to take away our rights to do things (bitework, sport training, etc.). Kristen, sounds to me that you want to take aaway Mike's right to use his dogs as they were bred for. Be careful what you say and if you don't agree take it to PMs. That way no on uses it against you later.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Jason, that's not what's happening, and Dwyras, there's a big difference between training a dog to bite a sleeve or even bite a criminal, and happily watching a dog or pack of dogs tear another animal (or person) to shreds, and getting enjoyment out of it. Pitbulls were bred to fight each other, but that doesn't mean they should.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Doesn't look very dark in these photos to me. 8-[
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it was not dark in those photos at all, in fact it was about 2 in the afternoon. I said that when I used to shoot them I had to do it in the dark. With the dogs, they go in and run them out anytime of the day when I go into the barn.
I am sorry if it offends you that I enjoy watching the dogs do what they were bred to do. I enjoy watching a police dog maul a suspect that has just raped someone and shot a cop also. I love to fish, I really enjoy hunting, and I like to work the dogs. This is the hunting section. Animals die when hunting happens. For the record....I do not "sic" the dogs on anything. I simply open the gate latch and the dogs do the rest on their own.
The ***** are not in a pit, nor are the dogs. Both animals have options....and exits. I use one 15 lb dog on a raccon. That is much more fair than the way true **** hunters do it with a pack of 60 lb hounds.
Do you ever watch the outdoor channel when a bow hunter sticks a deer with an arrow and they laugh, clap, "high five" each other, and then follow a blood trail to the spot where the deer finally bleeds out and chokes in his own blood. (if you have never watched that, you should......good stuff) But anyway, my point is that hunting and killing is a part of our society. Some people, like myself, like to hunt. This is ot something new to me, I have done it my whole life. But I used to do it with Border Collies and mixed breed "farm dogs". Now that I have started doing it with 15 lb Patterdales I think I feel like the cave man must have felt when he first discoverd fire.........now, life is better.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I already said I have no problem with hunting. I have a problem with pitting animals against each other.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> My vet sees 1 or 2 cases of rabies every few years in his clinic. if a dog is bitten by a suspected rabid critter they always re-vaccinate the dog right away. he said he has not lost a dog that was bitten by a rabid animal in several years, but of course I am sure it can happen.
> The odds are so low that for me it is not even an issue.
> That is the same reason I take my puppies out into the town at 4 weeks old to meet people, I just dont worry about diseases. For me the benifit outweighs the risk.
> I have seen one animal with rabies in WV in my life (a fox about 20 years ago when I was in the Marines and home on leave one August) It was so obvious that the fox was very sick there was no question about it. If I ever see a critter in that kind of shape I will obviously not put a dog on it.
> ...


Sounds good, I really just didn't know how negligible the risk was, obviously you have addressed this issue.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

This is the HUNTING section on a working dog forum. What did you think that would mean??
It likely means animals being used on animals in some fashion.
I want to make it very clear that these animals are not "pitted against each other"
This is done in an area outside in a very natural setting. I can promise you there are not pits, no fences, no chains holding the animals in place.
This is just me with a dog and a camera taking a walk down to the barn.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> This is the HUNTING section on a working dog forum. What did you think that would mean??
> It likely means animals being used on animals in some fashion.
> I want to make it very clear that these animals are not "pitted against each other"
> This is done in an area outside in a very natural setting. I can promise you there are not pits, no fences, no chains holding the animals in place.
> This is just me with a dog and a camera taking a walk down to the barn.



make some **** jerky and send it to Kristen Cabe. 8)


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I was thinking about posting some pictures and videos of some of my priarie dog hunts out west, but I am pretty sure that would really offend some people. 
You ever see the way a 55 grain V-Max bullet traveling at 4000 FPS will turn a prairie dog inside out?:lol:
When I go out there this summer to shoot prairie dogs I may take a Patterdale with me for the Badgers that we run into out there.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> make some **** jerky and send it to Kristen Cabe. 8)


I don't have a problem with that; at least it wouldn't all just go to waste for the thrill of the kill.

I'll say it one more time. It's not hunting that is the issue here. If you recall, I never said anything about the coyote that Mike posted pictures of that he shot. That was a clean kill and the coyote never knew what hit him.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> I don't have a problem with that; at least it wouldn't all just go to waste for the thrill of the kill.
> 
> I'll say it one more time. It's not hunting that is the issue here. If you recall, I never said anything about the coyote that Mike posted pictures of that he shot. That was a clean kill and the coyote never knew what hit him.


Kristen, seriously, it is not "the thrill of the kill" that I do it for. It is the saving of the tractors and the feed in the barn that I do it for. The fact that I enjoy to watch the dogs work is just a bonus.
Like killing two birds with one stone, or in this case one **** with one dog. The **** problem goes away, the dogs get to work, and I get to enjoy watching these two things happen. Everyone wins.
Well.............almost everyone.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Understood. I'll drop it, but I still feel a bit uncomfortable about it.


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Understood. I'll drop it, but I still feel a bit uncomfortable about it.


I'd say if it make you uncomfortable don't look. These dogs are bred to do this. They love to hunt and love winning the PREY. This is no back yard dog fight, these dogs are doing what they were put on this earth to do and from the looks of it, they are just earning their keep. Us farm people work our animals. This is a "Working" dog forum and this is the "Hunting" section. Some people do use their animals for what they were bred to do and Im sure those dogs were thrilled to be able to put thier well bred skill to good use.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Doesn't bother me. As a parrot breeder, I know raccoons are a menace. If they get their grabby hands on any part of a bird, through the aviary or cage, they will get that bird out piece by piece. Ripping off legs and wings while the bird is still alive. They do not necessarily eat them, either. One raccoon can kill or maim an aviary full of tiels, and has, with someone I knew. Hunting them with dogs, well, turnabout is fair play. It is amazing how tough those little patterdales are, pound for pound. 

Despite being in California, I'll confess there are at least 3 raccoons that did NOT get humanely trapped and relocated... And I love my pitX mutt... :lol:


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2010)

Mike,

I'm only going to say this one time, so listen good.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> I already said I have no problem with hunting. I have a problem with pitting animals against each other.


What is hunting anyways? Any way you look at it it is pitting animals against one another. From a guy with a shotgun and a partridge, to a Lion against a gazelle or a shark vs a seal. It is species vs species any way you want to look at it. The dog is still working for its dinner what ever way you want to put it. Raccoons steal corn from mouths of humans baboons and chimps steal crops as well in many countries in Africa it's an age old problem.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> Mike,
> 
> I'm only going to say this one time, so listen good.
> 
> Your rights end where my feelings begin.


LOL, got it Steve.
Now you hear me.........the sun will start to go down soon and the temp will drop a little. When it gets cooler this evening I will be headed back to the barn with the dogs and the camera. So those who are offended may not want to check the hunting section later tonight.......let this be your warning.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> LOL, got it Steve.
> Now you hear me.........the sun will start to go down soon and the temp will drop a little. When it gets cooler this evening I will be headed back to the barn with the dogs and the camera. So those who are offended may not want to check the hunting section later tonight.......let this be your warning.


 
Wish you success and ME Entertainment later with pics...\\/


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Oooh! OOOh!. I want night vision video!


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> it was not dark in those photos at all, in fact it was about 2 in the afternoon. I said that when I used to shoot them I had to do it in the dark. With the dogs, they go in and run them out anytime of the day when I go into the barn.
> I am sorry if it offends you that I enjoy watching the dogs do what they were bred to do. I enjoy watching a police dog maul a suspect that has just raped someone and shot a cop also. I love to fish, I really enjoy hunting, and I like to work the dogs. This is the hunting section. Animals die when hunting happens. For the record....I do not "sic" the dogs on anything. I simply open the gate latch and the dogs do the rest on their own.
> The ***** are not in a pit, nor are the dogs. Both animals have options....and exits. I use one 15 lb dog on a raccon. That is much more fair than the way true **** hunters do it with a pack of 60 lb hounds.
> Do you ever watch the outdoor channel when a bow hunter sticks a deer with an arrow and they laugh, clap, "high five" each other, and then follow a blood trail to the spot where the deer finally bleeds out and chokes in his own blood. (if you have never watched that, you should......good stuff) But anyway, my point is that hunting and killing is a part of our society. Some people, like myself, like to hunt. This is ot something new to me, I have done it my whole life. But I used to do it with Border Collies and mixed breed "farm dogs". Now that I have started doing it with 15 lb Patterdales I think I feel like the cave man must have felt when he first discoverd fire.........now, life is better.


Thats hands down the greatest thing you ever posted, hands down.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Steven Lepic said:


> Mike,
> 
> I'm only going to say this one time, so listen good.
> 
> Your rights end where my feelings begin.



It's actually the other way around sir.....you got it reversed, lotta blood had to soak into the ground for those rights, your feelings dont amount to shit.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Drew Peirce said:


> It's actually the other way around sir.....you got it reversed, lotta blood had to soak into the ground for those rights, your feelings dont amount to shit.


Sense of humor much Drew? He's kidding. The phrase as I learned it from my dad is "Your rights end, where my nose begins."


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Drew Peirce said:


> It's actually the other way around sir.....you got it reversed, lotta blood had to soak into the ground for those rights, your feelings dont amount to shit.


I think he was just joking Drew.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

I'll take my crow with a little ranch dressing then


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Drew Peirce said:


> I'll take my crow with a little ranch dressing then


LOL, I also eat ranch dressing with everything.....even crow.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Jason, that's not what's happening, and Dwyras, there's a big difference between training a dog to bite a sleeve or even bite a criminal, and happily watching a dog or pack of dogs tear another animal (or person) to shreds, and getting enjoyment out of it. Pitbulls were bred to fight each other, but that doesn't mean they should.







(every military and police K9 handler would want to see their dog tear a bad person to shreds)


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

now lets all work together and create the best coyote killing dog


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

Mike, I am only offended that we have not seen any video yet:grin:=D>


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Matt Grosch said:


> now lets all work together and create the best coyote killing dog


Now you're talking. I have a serious hate for coyotes. What about a Rhodesian Ridgeback?


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## John Wolf (Dec 12, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> now lets all work together and create the best coyote killing dog


Forget a dog. Two words. Golden Eagle

Mike I think you need to start a breeding program for these. Got any contacts in Mongolia. Haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re644qgnCtw


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> now lets all work together and create the best coyote killing dog


Been done already. They call them Lurchers! 
I've been on one coyote hunt with Lurchers. Frickin AWESOME! A dog and a bitch. The bitch barrell chested the coyote off it's feet at a dead run and the dog had it by the throat before it got it's feet back under it.

Mike, stay away from the Badgers. Most good Badger dogs in the UK are/were baying dogs. 
The Badger here in the States is bigger and lots meaner the the Euro version.
Two different scenarios
The dog latches onto the Badger and the Badger tears it a new ahole with it's strong claws.
The Dog latches onto the Badger and the Badger just digs itself into the ground (faster then any man with a shovel) and suffocates the dog.
I recall a Disney wildlife movie where two timber wolves had a Badger streached out like a rubberband. The Badger still kicked both their butts and ran them off of a dear it was feeding on.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurcher



looks like they say greyhound-collie or greyhound-terrier



Id like to see a good greyhound crossed with one of the 70lb leggy shredded red nose pits


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Been done already. They call them Lurchers!
> I've been on one coyote hunt with Lurchers. Frickin AWESOME! A dog and a bitch. The bitch barrell chested the coyote off it's feet at a dead run and the dog had it by the throat before it got it's feet back under it.
> 
> Mike, stay away from the Badgers. Most good Badger dogs in the UK are/were baying dogs.
> ...


Wow I was thinking lurcher too, but I didn't know if people had tried it. Was that done in your part of the country or out west or where? Mike, you seriously need a lurcher. Bob! Hook the man up!


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

greyhound/pit lurcher bred to Carlos or Arko


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Wow I was thinking lurcher too, but I didn't know if people had tried it. Was that done in your part of the country or out west or where? Mike, you seriously need a lurcher. Bob! Hook the man up!


It was in the middle of Kansas. Flat, open ground made for a running dog!
They were pretty popular at some of the big working terrier shows. Common in the UK. that's the origin of most of them. 
The most common Lurcher is a sighthound/collie but most any cross with sighthounds have been used. 
Smaller dog would be Whippet/Border Collie. The sight hound is for speed and the Collie is for "biddability" (control)>
Look a bit deeper in this hunting forum and you'll see a sighthound/Airedale that was bred from one of Don T's Dales. 
Coytoes are fast......but a good lurcher is faster.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> It was in the middle of Kansas. Flat, open ground made for a running dog!
> They were pretty popular at some of the big working terrier shows. Common in the UK. that's the origin of most of them.
> The most common Lurcher is a sighthound/collie but most any cross with sighthounds have been used.
> Smaller dog would be Whippet/Border Collie. The sight hound is for speed and the Collie is for "biddability" (control)>
> ...


Will do Bob, thanks for the tip.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

that would be a nice combo, have the dutchie for people and the lurcher for coyotes, would be tempting to name a big ugly lurcher 'Lurch' like the adams family retard zombie butler




also, thought of the title "patterdales hard at work, AKC dogs hardly woking"


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> that would be a nice combo, have the dutchie for people and the lurcher for coyotes, would be tempting to name a big ugly lurcher 'Lurch' like the adams family retard zombie butler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not always. My very best earthdog was a Border Terrier named Rags
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f22/borders-610/

Rags is pictured in the middle of the page going to ground and sitting on the picnic table.
Hard, hard dog!To much for his own good. Retired early because I wasn't willing to expose him to the punishment he gleefully took.
Polly (Rag's niece) in the first pic was a great catch dog in the ground. Every dig and she had the quarry by the lower jaw. Never got hurt but inconsistent going to ground.
Pete (JRT in first pic) was a great little baying dog in the ground and a great locator for dug in hogs.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Not always. My very best earthdog was a Border Terrier named Rags
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f22/borders-610/
> 
> Rags is pictured in the middle of the page going to ground and sitting on the picnic table.
> ...


Very nice Bob! Does Pete go back to Flare by any chance?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Very nice Bob! Does Pete go back to Flare by any chance?


Pete is a son of Bonita Knickmeyer's Woody. Woody goes back to Aurora Rupel's (sp) dogs.Pete's mom was a good hunter with not much of a background.
I never got real strong on the JRT peds. I just wanted a good worker. Got it in Pete. He's still around. Living with my son after son bought his first house last year. 
My primary hunting partner was Suzy Parson. She was/is a JRTCA working judge and was always after me to get Pete's Bronze Medalion but I didn't really care for the titles. Only showed him in breed (puppy class) a couple of times at the working shows.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Pete is a son of Bonita Knickmeyer's Woody. Woody goes back to Aurora Rupel's (sp) dogs.Pete's mom was a good hunter with not much of a background.
> I never got real strong on the JRT peds. I just wanted a good worker. Got it in Pete. He's still around. Living with my son after son bought his first house last year.
> My primary hunting partner was Suzy Parson. She was/is a JRTCA working judge and was always after me to get Pete's Bronze Medalion but I didn't really care for the titles. Only showed him in breed (puppy class) a couple of times at the working shows.


I'm terrible with pedigrees...

I know Aurora a little.. I went to a trial at her place once long ago. Bonita and Suzanne I know of, but don't know. 

Well, a bronze medallion is a pretty special thing to many American Jack Russell peeps. Especially with a fox on the list . Part of the reason for that involves something positive about the showing: most people watch nothing but the working terrier classes at trials and breed only to proven workers. A good fox dog, especially here in the states where many foxes are smallish and where the terrier must be correct to follow mr. fox to the end is a treasure imo.

You must be in earthdog heaven there aren't you? Gotta have some monstrous groundhogs. Here it is so rocky, they don't call it the granite state for nothing!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Plenty of15-16 lb hogs but 20lb isn't rare. Loads of big **** and possum. Fair with fox depending on area.
Pete has worked all four. \\/
I won my first Best in Show Colored Terrier at one of Aurora's trials. Now that place (Kentucky) is earthdog heaven. You drive right up to the dig along the road side and go at it. 
Here in Missouri it's lots of walking and lots of digging on hillsides. Comming on 65 this yr I retired from digging 4-5 yrs ago. Not made for old farts! :lol:
Aurora, Suzy, Bonita and a lot of others have been to terrier Mecca (GB). I've been invited more then once but just couldn't swing it.
I did get to hunt with Eddie Chapman and a number of other Brits when they came over here to judge a trial.


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## Tracy Davis-Sullivan (May 10, 2010)

Matt Grosch said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurcher
> 
> 
> looks like they say greyhound-collie or greyhound-terrier
> ...


 
Ths guy has a pit/greyhound (about 3/4 down the page) - Bully Lurcher

http://californiacatchers.com/index.asp?ID=11

I think one of my crew is a lab/greyhound. He looks a lot like the Border Collie/Whippets I know but with less hair and a thicker frame and head. Great dog, little dorky at home but stamina and speed out of control when we let him really open up in a big field.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I put a lot of value on a terrier's varmity expression. That little red Patty has it! gotta love it!


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Couldn't resist. :lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Kristen Cabe said:


> I already said I have no problem with hunting. I have a problem with pitting animals against each other.


Would it be better if Mike could let him just roam and kill raccoons as he pleased? I don't think there is any "pitting" going on here. I think the dog is hunting, not like fighting animals...

That being said raccoons ARE cute..


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

That is a cute picture Kristen. I would be happy to put my trash out a few days earlier just for the raccoons. However i would lace it all with antifreeze also just for them. The only trouble is that I love dogs and would be afraid a dog would get in the trash before the nasty little ***** did.
So instead I will just keep watching my dogs rip them open and spill their little guts all over my fields while I enjoy a cold beer and laugh.


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> That is a cute picture Kristen. I would be happy to put my trash out a few days earlier just for the raccoons. However i would lace it all with antifreeze also just for them. The only trouble is that I love dogs and would be afraid a dog would get in the trash before the nasty little ***** did.
> So instead I will just keep watching my dogs rip them open and spill their little guts all over my fields while I enjoy a cold beer and laugh.


 OMG! I can't stop laughing!


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

No need to be an ass. I was only trying to be funny.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

When are we going to get more blood on this thread?  Couldn't of killed all of them yet!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> No need to be an ass. I was only trying to be funny.


LOL, now that was funny.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jody Butler said:


> When are we going to get more blood on this thread?  Couldn't of killed all of them yet!


No, we have not killed them all yet. But we have killed several more recently. My camera battery was dead on one trip, and the lighting was terrible on the last trip because we were killing them inside the barn in the hay late in the evening and it was almost dark in there. Dont worry Jody, I will get some more good pictures soon, just for you!
I will just have to go in during the middle of the afternoon when the lighting is best. it is important if you kill varmints that you do it in ideal lighting conditions so the camea captures all the details!


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> until recently I did not keep terriers for pest control. i used to just shoot the ***** when I saw them. But since they come out only at night, it was hard to see them and shoot them. No, I dont have time to battle any of the PETA folks, nor do I plan on wasting any time doing that. I will kill the vermin around here just like I have done for years, and like my father, grandfather , and great grandfather did.
> I have had to shoot horses who broke a leg in a groundhog hole and we have also broken axels on hay wagons from large groundhog holes, I have had to pay hundreds of dollars to repair farm equipment that was damaged by *****, I have lost hundreds if not thousands of punds of livestock feed over the years to *****, possums, and other critters. We have lost calves to coyotes, and chickens to foxes.
> The DNR says our farm has over 10 deer per acre and an ideal number is about 1 per acre, so we have a lot of crop damage permits for deer as well.
> I dont really care what PETA thinks, or any other animal rights activists. I am not breaking any game laws. There is also no law against having fun while we rid the farm of these pests. Nor is it illegal to post pictures of it. Again, if the mods ask me to stop i will. And if anyone is offended they dont have to look.


Don't forget its the "humane" society and the SPCA that will give you trouble. Most people see PETA as a extreme group, they want us all to be vegans. 

Its the humane society and the SPCA animal cop type people that do the raids on peoples property. Their is nothing humane about any of these people in reality.... but they have government backing so good luck stopping them if they target you.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Screw pictures, get some video.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Screw pictures, get some video.


 I will for sure.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> No, we have not killed them all yet. But we have killed several more recently. My camera battery was dead on one trip, and the lighting was terrible on the last trip because we were killing them inside the barn in the hay late in the evening and it was almost dark in there. Dont worry Jody, I will get some more good pictures soon, just for you!
> I will just have to go in during the middle of the afternoon when the lighting is best. it is important if you kill varmints that you do it in ideal lighting conditions so the camea captures all the details!


 Get one of them there night vision goggles that I'm sure you have stashed away. Put a video camera lens up to one side and get some cool covert video.


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