# Dogs in todays society



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

This was posted by one of the K9 Pro Sports members on our message board and seems a good general view of dogs and some of their problems today, so I thought I'd share. The Queensland she refers to is Australia, but it seems the thoughts are pretty universal.

This article appeared in the May 2010 issue of Queensland Dog World and was submitted by Linda Bennett.

So often these days we hear about dog aggression. One bite is one too many, I agree but perhaps we should delve deeper into what has happened to make the situation what it is today.

Some of you who are like me, “Baby Boomers”, will remember that as children we played in the streets or at the local park at weekends and after school. We all took along the family dog.

Rarely on a leash, these dogs tagged along, each with its own child and interacted freely with all the other canines. Seemingly pleasing themselves and yet as each child departed from the group the dog also departed and went home for dinner with its family.
It was not uncommon to see dogs untethered outside the local pub or shop waiting patiently for their master.

Dogs in those days were bought up from puppies to be part of society. If one was a renegade it was removed from the group. Some were forced to stay at home, some euthanized but this was usually due to being a misfit within the group of dogs rather than aggressive towards people.

It was a rarity indeed for a dog to do harm to a child as from the pups first day in its new home it learned how to read the actions of children. Children run and scream, waving their arms around, play fight with sticks and throw stones.

Exposure to all of these things teaches a dog how and when to react. What is a serious threat and what to ignore.

We as a society have created a problem by removing the opportunity for dogs to learn the necessary skills to live as true companions. There is no way we can compensate with training or by creating artificial freedom for dogs. Restricting the freedom of dogs in society will only make them less able to integrate.

The breed of dog is of no consequence except that some breeds will generally cope better than others with the life we have given them.

We need to take a long hard look at what we are doing before there is no going back.

If this is the life we have chosen for our canine friends then we need to stop blaming them for their natural uneducated reactions and start making sure that people who intend on owning a dog are able to handle them before they are confronted with a bad situation.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Bravo Butch ;-) Thanks for posting that!! You could substitute the word "dog" and put in the word "human" and you'd be talking about today's society as well


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I can't honestly say I agree with what you say, the dogs react the same but the owners, public react differently and the media is ever at hand for juicy stories.

I don't know how far you want to go back in history, but I remember an incident at a little private school I attended where the owner's cocker spaniel attacked my friend Kirshid. I can see them today, cocker spaniel, Kirshid, rolling over and the dog biting her.

I remember a case of family-owned Jack Russells who killed their infant in England.

I remember here in Switzerland, Great Danes attacking children bent over in the Park in Zürich.

I remember also that, apart from dog - human injuries, we had many dog- dog injuries which we put down to dog ownership in general and the one that had to go to the Vet, was paid for by the other.

Dogs haven't changed - but owners and the general public have. The media is just waiting around the corner for a Pitbull, Rottweiler or similar to fall out of line.

Not only that, people have changed, too. The dog has changed from sometime prestige object to "small child". I'd say "replacement" but it's not correct. The pup / dog has become *No. 1* in the family.

It's tragic!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Well for starters how many dogs are there now compared to 25-30 yrs ago ? And how many clueless idiots do you see now with not only one untrained dog, but two or more ? It's those damn crates I'm telling you :grin:.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I have to agree with Gillian. The first childhood dog I remember was our Springer Spaniel. And I remember him having multiple bite instances, I also remember a conversation my parents had where if he did it again, he was going to have to be euthanized. Our next dog was more like they dogs you described, at least with people, she wasn't dog friendly at all. More dog neutral, she didn't fight, but didn't want to play either.

What I do remember was as a kid, if we got bit by a dog, the first thing our parents asked was "what did you do to the dog?" Now it doesn't matter if the kid stabs the dog with a knife, if the dog bites the kid somehow it's the dogs fault. I also remember being told NOT to rush up to people's dogs, but ask first if I could pet them, and if they were friendly. If I did rush up to a dog and the dog reacted negatively, I was the one in trouble. Now days people think they and their children have some "pass" to interact with every animal they see, and the animal should enjoy it. And I mean animal, not just dog. I don't know how many times I've seen some idiot trying to pet the cows in a field, or going into a horses pen, etc when they have no clue how close they are to getting stomped.

Maybe dogs have changed a little, but I think the big change is the people. I see dogs all over the place, so I don't think they are less integrated in society then they used to be, just that our demands from them (not just the owners, but society as a whole) have changed. People used to respect animals as animals, now they think everything is a stuffed animal, then are surprised when they still act like animals.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

A dog lover from the cradle, I stretched my hand out to a Dachshund and got bitten. Who got told off, me! The parents told me to ask but I guess I was untrainable! Times have changed of course.

The dogs are now untrainable, the children get off scot-free or with court cases!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2010)

We can't forget that this mythology of the free roaming happy dog is largely to blame for the litigious tendencies so often seen when a dog behaves like a dog today. Its a fairytale like Beaver Cleaver that dogs used to just roam free and buddy up with all the other local loose running dogs for a fun day on the town and never bite people or children. Very utopian. Very BS. Dogs used to fight, get stolen, get hit by cars, get poisoned, get trapped, get tortured and everything else that could happen today, we just didn't hear about it because people didn't give a damn. A dog was just a dog. Today a dog is a child so there's a lot more uproar over dogs running loose and running off leash in town. WHen a dog bites someone its like this foreign thing because People have this smiley happy image of Lassie as the archetypal canine. Well Lassie was a effin' fear biter.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

When I was a small child we had amongst others, a dog aggressive black lab, my mother used to let him out on his own very early morning and he was generally back before we went off to school. I had come across him one morning down the town, he and around half a dozen other dogs were all laying quietly outside the butchers shop where they were getting scraps thrown out.

There wasn't any squabbling or tustling going on at all, apparently this was a very regular occurence and when the scraps were done, they all upped and on their separate ways. That had left quite an impression on me, I don't recall too many troubles with dogs when I was young although, no doubt they were happening elsewhere.


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I have to agree with Gillian. The first childhood dog I remember was our Springer Spaniel. And I remember him having multiple bite instances, I also remember a conversation my parents had where if he did it again, he was going to have to be euthanized. Our next dog was more like they dogs you described, at least with people, she wasn't dog friendly at all. More dog neutral, she didn't fight, but didn't want to play either.
> 
> What I do remember was as a kid, if we got bit by a dog, the first thing our parents asked was "what did you do to the dog?" Now it doesn't matter if the kid stabs the dog with a knife, if the dog bites the kid somehow it's the dogs fault. I also remember being told NOT to rush up to people's dogs, but ask first if I could pet them, and if they were friendly. If I did rush up to a dog and the dog reacted negatively, I was the one in trouble. Now days people think they and their children have some "pass" to interact with every animal they see, and the animal should enjoy it. And I mean animal, not just dog. I don't know how many times I've seen some idiot trying to pet the cows in a field, or going into a horses pen, etc when they have no clue how close they are to getting stomped.
> 
> Maybe dogs have changed a little, but I think the big change is the people. I see dogs all over the place, so I don't think they are less integrated in society then they used to be, just that our demands from them (not just the owners, but society as a whole) have changed. People used to respect animals as animals, now they think everything is a stuffed animal, then are surprised when they still act like animals.


Amen. That's probably the best synopsis on the subject I've ever read.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Vin Chiu said:


> We can't forget that this mythology of the free roaming happy dog is largely to blame for the litigious tendencies so often seen when a dog behaves like a dog today. Its a fairytale like Beaver Cleaver that dogs used to just roam free and buddy up with all the other local loose running dogs for a fun day on the town and never bite people or children. Very utopian. Very BS. Dogs used to fight, get stolen, get hit by cars, get poisoned, get trapped, get tortured and everything else that could happen today, we just didn't hear about it because people didn't give a damn. A dog was just a dog. Today a dog is a child so there's a lot more uproar over dogs running loose and running off leash in town. WHen a dog bites someone its like this foreign thing because People have this smiley happy image of Lassie as the archetypal canine. Well Lassie was a effin' fear biter.


Things have changed more than you know Vin. I used to come home and get a 12 ga shotgun out and head out to go squirrel shooting. Oicture a 10 to 12 year old kid riding his bike down the street with a 12 gage tied to the handlebars, the dog running next to me and not one person said a thing. The problem in those days was dogs going after anyone on a bicycle. Lots of people bit riding bicycles. I am just a little kid with a gun and it was condoned by my folks ....and they were both school teachers. Talk about change!


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

Training was not the same then as it is today and IMO that is the root of many dog issues.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"Rarely on leash, these dogs just tagged along".
Butch, this comment says a lot. Like you I was one of those kids with a dog. They went everywhere with me. If I decided to go somewhere the dog couldn't I just said "go home". They did!
Training today is looked at as something mechanical and leadership isn't always a part of it.
Very few today could go anywhere and the dog would "just tag along".


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> "Rarely on leash, these dogs just tagged along".
> Butch, this comment says a lot. Like you I was one of those kids with a dog. They went everywhere with me. If I decided to go somewhere the dog couldn't I just said "go home". They did!
> Training today is looked at as something mechanical and leadership isn't always a part of it.
> Very few today could go anywhere and the dog would "just tag along".


Actually Bob, I can't remember the last time I saw a kid going down the street with a dog by his side. I am sure you remember back then how people on bicycles were the dogs main target. I haven't heard of dogs chasing bicycles for 40 years.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I had a throw back to those days when I was in CR. It was very refreshing to watch dogs follow kids on bikes and adults on horses right down "main street". The dogs were relaxed and happy even though they didn't live as long crated or kenneled dogs here in the US.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Actually Bob, I can't remember the last time I saw a kid going down the street with a dog by his side. I am sure you remember back then how people on bicycles were the dogs main target. I haven't heard of dogs chasing bicycles for 40 years.


Damn bikes are to fast today. :lol: ;-)
That bare leg with the pant leg rolled up to keep out of the bike chain was a mighty fine target for those dogs wasn't it!. :grin:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Damn bikes are to fast today. :lol: ;-)
> That bare leg with the pant leg rolled up to keep out of the bike chain was a mighty fine target for those dogs wasn't it!. :grin:


Damned Bob, you took me back to years gone by. I forgot about putting those big rubber bands from the balsa wood planes around my pantlegs to keep them out of the chain. If I didn't have the rubber bands, I rolled up the pantleg like you said. Hell, I remember my first three speed bike, what a piece of crap next to the old Schwinn(sp?) bee bikes. Always had flat tires and bent rims from jumping curbs. LOL Put some knobbies on the bee bike and never had a problem.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I was an adult before I got my first 3 speed. Most of mine were the Schwinns with the horn box in the frame and the luggage/passenger rack on the back fender or the old J. C. Higgins with the front coil springs for shock absorbers up high. Those things would pinch the crap out of anyone's ass who was riding on the handlebars. 
The hot setup was paint em black, put chrome fenders on em, streamers on the handle bar grips and a suicide knob scrounged at the junk yard.
The old Schwinns were so popular I had 5 of them stolen from me. Two while I was still riding them.  Course I got a couple of those 5 the same way.  8-[ Life in the hood! :lol:
We rode all over the city two on a bike. Still got the crease going the wrong way on my ass from those handle bars and the scars from those old Higgins springs.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Vin Chiu said:


> We can't forget that this mythology of the free roaming happy dog is largely to blame for the litigious tendencies so often seen when a dog behaves like a dog today. Its a fairytale like Beaver Cleaver that dogs used to just roam free and buddy up with all the other local loose running dogs for a fun day on the town and never bite people or children. Very utopian. Very BS. Dogs used to fight, get stolen, get hit by cars, get poisoned, get trapped, get tortured and everything else that could happen today, we just didn't hear about it because people didn't give a damn. A dog was just a dog. Today a dog is a child so there's a lot more uproar over dogs running loose and running off leash in town. WHen a dog bites someone its like this foreign thing because People have this smiley happy image of Lassie as the archetypal canine. Well Lassie was a effin' fear biter.


This is very, very true. I've either externed or shadowed at 3 mixed practice vet clinics in rural Missouri and literally just about every single day, someone's dog was brought in for fight wounds with other dogs, gunshot wounds from chasing livestock or otherwise getting into trouble, HBCs, injuries with run ins with cattle or horses, etc. It ain't Lassie, that's for sure...


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Not to mention now days after Timmy and Lassie got home from one of their jaunts, Timmy would be handing his mom the ticket the nice police officer or animal control officer gave him for having his dog off leash.


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## Ashley Hiebing (Apr 6, 2008)

Anne Pridemore said:


> Training was not the same then as it is today and IMO that is the root of many dog issues.


Or another way of looking at it... how many dogs were euthanized back then for issues that most people choose to work with today, instead?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Not to mention now days after Timmy and Lassie got home from one of their jaunts, Timmy would be handing his mom the ticket the nice police officer or animal control officer gave him for having his dog off leash.


:lol::lol::lol: One of my major problems today. I move in this area about 3yrs ago. Great place, nice folks, plenty of parks for walking, jogging, etc.......but them durn leash laws.:evil:
All the dogs in my neighborhood now are on flexi leads and most have those cute little red/blue neck scarves.](*,)
I miss the logging chains and padlocks on the collars at my old place......and the red/blue thing  WAR! :lol::lol::lol:


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Glad this got a little interest, I just got a response from a good friend and dog trainer, Tony McCallum and I thought he summed it all up pretty good;

_"l think it is the people that have changed, if you touched someones dog that was obviously meant to guard their possessions and got bit, your dad would smack you upside the head. If a dog bit you for no reason your dad would smack it upside the head,and the person that owned it. life went on. No one sulked and order was maintained. So breeding is the problem, just not dog breeding.
How I see it, Tony" _

Hey Bob did you ever clothespin a stiff playing card to your spokes?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"Hey Bob did you ever clothespin a stiff playing card to your spokes"?

You bet! Balloons too. They had a much better sound then the cards but didn't last longer then it took to heat them up from the friction. :-o


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## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I have to agree with Gillian. The first childhood dog I remember was our Springer Spaniel. And I remember him having multiple bite instances, I also remember a conversation my parents had where if he did it again, he was going to have to be euthanized. Our next dog was more like they dogs you described, at least with people, she wasn't dog friendly at all. More dog neutral, she didn't fight, but didn't want to play either.
> 
> What I do remember was as a kid, if we got bit by a dog, the first thing our parents asked was "what did you do to the dog?" Now it doesn't matter if the kid stabs the dog with a knife, if the dog bites the kid somehow it's the dogs fault. I also remember being told NOT to rush up to people's dogs, but ask first if I could pet them, and if they were friendly. If I did rush up to a dog and the dog reacted negatively, I was the one in trouble. Now days people think they and their children have some "pass" to interact with every animal they see, and the animal should enjoy it. And I mean animal, not just dog. I don't know how many times I've seen some idiot trying to pet the cows in a field, or going into a horses pen, etc when they have no clue how close they are to getting stomped.
> 
> Maybe dogs have changed a little, but I think the big change is the people. I see dogs all over the place, so I don't think they are less integrated in society then they used to be, just that our demands from them (not just the owners, but society as a whole) have changed. People used to respect animals as animals, now they think everything is a stuffed animal, then are surprised when they still act like animals.


the first dog that bit me was the family Boston Terrier (stinky, farty, snorring things). I was 2.5 and backeded it into a corner while crawling...still have the scar on my face. My Mom tells me I was scolded for teasing the dog and the dog lived to be 11. Today's kids would be nursed at the teet, and Mom would have sued Grandma for having a dangerous dog and the dog wouldn't see the next days light. I raise my kids old school while walking a fine line  but hey they are either going to learn "no" at home or the judge will give them a crash course! The newest breed of Metrosexual is going to seem like MMA fighters if we dont do something to toughen up ourselves, our kids, and our dogs. By that I mean, stop taking away the PRIVELLEDGE of consequences, if my kid pets a dog without asking and he gets nipped, we fix the holes AND appologize to the owner; if my dog gets out and bites someone then maybe hes not a great dog to have around, if he gets outs too much and the neighbour poisons him...well I guess i should have worked more on the food refusal.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> "Hey Bob did you ever clothespin a stiff playing card to your spokes"?
> 
> You bet! Balloons too. They had a much better sound then the cards but didn't last longer then it took to heat them up from the friction. :-o


Yeh, those playing cards gave the neighbor dogs a heads-up when we were bike riding so they usually were waiting for us at the end of their driveways. We learned to peddle really fast and hard, lift those feet to the bar and coast thru past the dogs. If you misjudged your speed, well then, you just got bit.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

And here is something that will blow your mind.....were talking "before" McDonalds. Kids actually spent time outside......dogs too!!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> And here is something that will blow your mind.....were talking "before" McDonalds. Kids actually spent time outside......dogs too!!!



Holy moley. I had a major flashback when I read this. I actually remember when the first McDonald's appeared in my home town! _I remember no McDonald's times!_ :-o


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

NO McDonald's ?????

you guys ARE old


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I remember when the # sold was under a million and we would think wow, that's a lot of burgers.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I remember when the # sold was under a million and we would think wow, that's a lot of burgers.


Thats a lot of calories...


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Thats a lot of calories...


 
Who the hell counted calories then ? Folks were starving in those times weren't they ?:grin:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I remember when the # sold was under a million and we would think wow, that's a lot of burgers.



I don't recall anything but a basic burger and a basic cheese burger at the time. Fries and a drink of course!
Our need for grease and salt soon ended that. 
The first Micky Ds was right across the road from the North Drive in. Sure was busy on a Fri/Sat night! 
We all wondered when the sign would change to show the next 100,000 sold. 
Cant recall when the stopped that.
Of course White Castle had been around forever. I still love those greasy little sliders!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I remember when the # sold was under a million and we would think wow, that's a lot of burgers.




AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Me too. 

Sheesh. Flashbacks. Some people have acid flashbacks. I have bad-hamburger flashbacks. :-(




Bob Scott said:


> ... Of course White Castle had been around forever. I still love those greasy little sliders!


I thought White Castle was just NY and NJ.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Me too.
> 
> Sheesh. Flashbacks. Some people have acid flashbacks. I have bad-hamburger flashbacks. :-(
> 
> ...


We even have White Castle in TN. Krystal of course is the mainstay, but WC's can be found. Before Mickey D was Burger Chef. 

DFrost


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

There was even a WC in Fresno Ca years ago....many years and this was McD's turf then and WC lost.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I think they were in Indy first.


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