# Bloat!!!



## Jose' Abril (Dec 6, 2007)

Would you all say that Bloat is a result of genetics or something that just happens to primarily large breed dogs??


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

History of bloat in bloodlines plays a part, but it is primarily something that happens in deep chested dogs. (from what I know)

There are several things to do that help to prevent bloat like 

not exercising right before or after feeding
allowing the dog to cool down after exercise
not allowing the dog to drink a ton of water at a time while working
knowing when your dog is getting tired and resting them
feeding 2 to 3 times a day not one big meal

these are just some things that come to mind. 

You can also have their stomachs "tacked" or stapled so that the gut will not twist.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

I had heard or read somewhere that Lackland was Tacking all their MWDs. Anyone know if this is true?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

"Bloat" is not always a twisted stomach. I haven't heard that about Lackland. I would doubt it though. That is a lot of dogs. We have a standing policy from day one. The dog does not eat until a minimum of one hour after working and does not work a minimum of two hours after eating. We've had one case of gastric torsion in 15 years. Handlers are also taught "hot watering". After extensive exercise, work or just play, the dog is given "two fingers" of water in the bottom of the water dish. After the dog has cooled down considerable is he given more water. That also helps reduce incidences of bloat. While I don't think you will ever completely eliminate the possibility, it can be reduced with a little forethought.

DFrost


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kyle Sprag said:


> I had heard or read somewhere that Lackland was Tacking all their MWDs. Anyone know if this is true?


I would suspect not. Like everyone has says, using some pretty simple protocol, it's mostly avoidable. Not sure about the tacking in dogs, but in horses, doing the same thing for colic doesn't always work.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Actually I remember a documentary once about Lackland and the veterinarian said all GSDs have their stomachs tacked before being deployed to the middle east. Here is an article about it:
http://www.coloradoan.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080302/LIFESTYLE/803020302

Here is a small part of the article:


"In deployed locations, vet support is very difficult to find. A vet could be three of four helicopter rides away," said Lt. Col. Dr. Michael Lagutchik of the Army Veterinary Corps in a phone interview from Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. Lagutchik is director of veterinary services for the Military Working Dogs Program for the Department of Defense. That's why in recent years, military veterinarians have been operating on large breed dogs before they deploy. The prophylactic surgery, called a gastropexy, prevents the stomach from twisting in the event of bloat.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

David Frost;65327. Handlers are also taught "hot watering". After extensive exercise said:


> Our departmental vet said not to ration water on training days... said he has yet to see a dog bloat from water consumption in 40 years of practice. He is extremely finicky about not feeding on a training day until 2 to 3 hours after training ends.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

We had this conversation with our training group two weeks ago. For folks like myself who have deep chested breeds, I feel that the water *amounts *are better than no water at all. Also, the speed at which the dog drinks is also important. It's like chugging a beer or sipping one. The idea to two fingers of water in a pan or about 4 ounces is plenty for a fast drink. Once the body is cool and the desire to wolf down water is slowed, the dog can calmly consume what it needs to satisfy the system.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Old habits die hard. Particularly ones that, even anecdotally, seem to work. I've had vets tell me it is a good practice. What's a man to do, ha ha.

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jose' Abril said:


> Would you all say that Bloat is a result of genetics or something that just happens to primarily large breed dogs??


Deep narrow chest, and also quite a bit of evidence that a dog who is more "nervy" is more susceptible.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> "Bloat" is not always a twisted stomach.
> 
> DFrost



Absolutely correct.

If I did have a dog who bloated without torsion, I'd probably consider the tacking procedure in order to eliminate "the next time," when torsion might indeed happen.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

David Frost said:


> "Bloat" is not always a twisted stomach.
> DFrost





Connie Sutherland said:


> Absolutely correct.
> 
> If I did have a dog who bloated without torsion, I'd probably consider the tacking procedure in order to eliminate "the next time," when torsion might indeed happen.



I knew that and failed to point that out.....

I am seriously paranoid about Bloat with Max. Bloodhounds bloat more than any breed, so I have heard anyway, so I do take the precautions needed but with full knowledge it still may happen. 

I like the "hot watering" phrase, I will have to remember that. It is exactly what I do. Thanks David.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> After extensive exercise, work or just play, the dog is given "two fingers" of water in the bottom of the water dish. After the dog has cooled down considerable is he given more water.
> DFrost


My vet med handbooks (including the newest Merck) and the bloat web sites agree with you on this.

It's not just the water; it's also the gulping of air as the dog takes in a lot of water.


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

One thing always to watch for is gagging.attempting to throw up and nothing happening. It can be the very first sign of impending bloat.

It does definitely run in families. I lost several Dobes to bloat, unfortunately.

One of many reasons why we turned to GSDs.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I think genetics do play into it- lines that tend to bloat are going to continue, where as lines that don't suffer from it tend to pass that on. Our Dane breeder only had 1 case of bloat in 20 years of breeding, and Danes are among the most susceptible breeds. 

Once a dog bloats it's most likely to happen again. It's also not a young dog disease. Most dogs that bloat are older- 5 or more, and a young dog or pup bloating is very rare. This is what our Dane breeder told us and I believe what she says based on her experience.

We TRY (not always possible) to minimize activity before and after meals. Our GSD is ok with being calm, but our Dane gets fired up with a full belly and we have to put her in a down for a while to keep her calm.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think it is how the dogs deal with stress.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

My Fila had a bloat - he'd helped himself to kibble, unknown to me, and I gave him his evening meal as usual. I heard him whimpering, went to see him and felt that his stomach was extended. Off to the vets - injection - everything came up and afterwards he was ok. There was some history of torsion in the breeding lines but he lived to be 14,5 without one.

Not so the French Shepherd. Took him home after training (he was in the box for about 2 hours). Let him out of the car and, very unlike this effervescent idiot, he slunk, stomach and head low, into the garden. I kept an eye on him but suddenly found him lying on the cool lawn (he never did this) and then he tried to heave but nothing came. Off to the vets - they were inclined not to believe us at this stage but we insisted although neither of us had encountered torsion at first hand. 

It was a sideways torsion and they had to open his stomach, which is not always necessary. Nothing in it but grass and dirt. He hadn't wanted water after training, which I thought strange. The vet said he had often experienced dogs with torsions and empty stomachs.

I think it's easier to pick up on a lively dog than a lazy one. I don't think empty stomachs for hours on end are good (gut feeling). My elder GSD's stomach rumbles if I miss out a meal ( I feed them twice a day) so that I can hear it clearly. I stick to no exercise just before and after meals but I honestly don't think there's much you can do apart from his.

What worries me is, that having the dogs tacked as a precautionary measure will mean that this horrible "ailment" will never be eliminated from breed lines. On the other hand I appreciate why owners want to take every precaution possible. It's horrible to watch a dog in such pain.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

With my GSDs being outside dogs I worry all the time about bloat/torsion. The dogs that are caught early have a chance. Going out in the morning after would suck bigtime.
!


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