# 6-month-old GSD puppy corrections



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

My puppy is from working lines--his breeder breeds specifically for social aggression. As long as he is properly trained & socialized, this does not mean my puppy is nuts or will develop into a dangerous dog as he matures. His *nature *is to be dominant & confident--these are the traits I want in a protection & sport dog.

I've posted lots of video of the training this puppy has had since day one (7-weeks-old)--he started out with all positive motivation until he was absolutely solid on what was expected--the food was gradually removed & corrections were added. Physically correcting a puppy before the age of 5-months-old is counter-productive imo.

At 6-months-old, my puppy is now maturing & he's feeling his oats by expressing aggression--this is his *nature* & no amount of correction is going to change his nature. His hormones are raging & this behavior is natural. I can put a real huntin on him but I feel that at this age the best way to stop him & to teach self-control is to tell him to do something else (like sit or down) & then correct him for disobedience to the command. When the puppy is ready, my idea of a properly given correction is to teach the puppy how to avoid the correction. Constantly having to correct your puppy is absolutely wrong--a correction should be strong enough to cause avoidance, it must be perfectly clear to the puppy & must be given without anger or frustration on the handler's part. Immediately after the correction, the puppy should be given the opportunity to obey & then praised. When administered properly the dog learns how to avoid the correction--avoiding a physical correction eventually becomes a reward for the puppy or dog.

I started a thread about my puppy & how when he starts feeling aggressive (natural) I control him by telling him to sit & even in the middle of biting, he'll stop immediately & sit. I wasn't complaining that he was aggressive & thought it was a good thing that he was learning self control by obeying me. I think correcting him for feeling exactly what I want him to feel would be very confusing for him. I think that many people misunderstand what is going on. You can't change a *feeling *without big side effects. A puppy bred like this can't be corrected for his natural instincts. If I stop him (and I certainly can stop him with corrections) what will he feel when he's expected to act this way during training? Will he feel confused? Intimidated since he was beat down for the same exact thing (in his mind)? Will he feel that there aren't any rules & he's going to do what he wants to do? I really think that lots of really good dogs are out-of-control because of trying to correct the dog into submission when he doesn't understand the rules.

Starting at :50 in this video, the 6 1/2-month-old Dobbie is trained to stay with the stroller & guard it. He is barking at construction workers off camera--as long as he sits & guards the stroller he can bark or not. Sorry about the leash--park rules.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRribNsESTM


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

In that video he reminds me A lot of his Father Kaz!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I can only say that giving into a dog's natural instincts can land you in trouble. I never allow this to overcome me when training my dog. I know of it but it doesn't stop me from stopping the dog to do what he wants to do naturally.

The Dobie doesn't want to be left alone?? Neither do 100 other breeds. Just ignore it and go to work, shopping, whatever.

A lot of what you said at the beginning was ok but the dog has to live with you, not just live out its instincts.

I can appreciate where you're coming from but maybe you should start thinking me - dog - who's gonna win??


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So corrections hurt your dogs feelings ?? WTF are you asking us something or telling us something ?? : )


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Sue Miller said:


> My puppy is from working lines--his breeder breeds specifically for social aggression. As long as he is properly trained & socialized, this does not mean my puppy is nuts or will develop into a dangerous dog as he matures. His *nature *is to be dominant & confident--these are the traits I want in a protection & sport dog.
> 
> I've posted lots of video of the training this puppy has had since day one (7-weeks-old)--he started out with all positive motivation until he was absolutely solid on what was expected--the food was gradually removed & corrections were added. Physically correcting a puppy before the age of 5-months-old is counter-productive imo.


I find it interesting to observe the mother. She will correct the puppies for bad behavior quite young. Also, other dogs in the family unit will also correct puppies for jumping and biting on them with physical corrections. If I didn't correct my malinois pups at a young age for inappropriate biting there would be nothing left of me..I'd have scars and scraps all over my body. Depending on the lines, you could have serious respect issues if you wait too long to establish yourself. I haven't seen that fair corrections harm a young puppy. We are always working and playing with the young puppies so they do have many outlets and games that are allowed to be played with humans. However, such things as "biting the sh*t" out of someone, is not allowed. This would however be their favorite game if allowed. 

What are you basing your idea that "physical correcting < 5 months is counter-prod" ???? Do you know of dogs that have been harmed by this? Or, would the dog of turned out the same regardless?


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## Jason Lin (May 26, 2009)

I'm interested in this since I am getting my pup in november.

So when the little bugger comes at me and tries to bite the sh*t out of me, how do I physically correct him? Push him away or do I give him a taste of his own medicine and "smack" him around a little bit?


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Corrections are not meant to change a dog's NATURE. They are for changing a dogs BEHAVIOR.

If you want your dog to bite you, go ahead and let him. It's your flesh.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

"breeder breeds specifically for social aggression"

I'm not sure what social aggression is? It sounds like an oxymoron.
When is the dog supposed to be social and when is he supposed to
aggressive? Or is he supposed to be both at the same time?

I'd think that using either Ivan's or Michael Ellis training tecniques to raise your working puppies that you'd avoid the problems with overly
aggressive adolescents dogs.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

That was interesting. So what would happen if someone came up and rolled the stroller away? Would he remain sitting there barking?


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## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> That was interesting. So what would happen if someone came up and rolled the stroller away? Would he remain sitting there barking?


I'm not quite sure. He went home to his owners shortly after this video was made. He's going for his BH in December & then who knows. He's had a couple of sessions of bite work & did well. We have his sister now & she is a firecracker!


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## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

I can understand your point about his nature, and learning to control his agression (everyone has a different idea on their "perfect" dog, and if that what you prefer, thats your choice)

But, the puppy is living with YOU. If you want to allow the dog to be aggressive towards others, again your choice. But it shouldnt be allowed when the agression is being focused on you, his leader. A correction coming from you, will not ruin your puppy IMO (as long as you are aware of their mental and physical maturity, ,as in they cant handle the same correction you might give an older dog). As someone said, pack mates do correct the puppies for rude behaviors (biting is rude). Corrections are a part of life, for any animal. Without them, there would be no rules, no order. I think the hard part is figuring out how the correction needs to be given, and to what severity. 

I personally wouldnt be able to be so calm about it, but maybe thats why it works for you, wouldnt for me. 

Nature is one thing, but if I knew I had a chance to nip this problem in the bud (or maybe it could always be an issue, who knows) I would. I wouldnt take it too well when a 85lb dog is coming up at me (when I feed the thing, yes old school never bite the hand that feeds you, lol). The scene would not be pretty. I know I am a HORRIBLE candidate for a handler agressive dog. 

If you are ok with the idea of your puppy all grown up taking his frustrations out on you, again thats your choice.


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## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

Jason Lin said:


> I'm interested in this since I am getting my pup in november.
> 
> So when the little bugger comes at me and tries to bite the sh*t out of me, how do I physically correct him? Push him away or do I give him a taste of his own medicine and "smack" him around a little bit?


My issue with this is that the OP says the puppy is acting out agressively. If it was play biting, completely different and would be handled differently, IMO. Puppies dont automatically know not to bite when playing, that is their nature. And I think a puppy biting out of play could/should be redirected.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i too have a problem with "socially aggressive". what does that mean?

also "raging hormones" at SIX months? what happens when he's 18 months and the testosterone REALLY kicks in?

and i do not tolerate pups using me as their bite toy--always re-direct. it won't stop a few scars initially, but better that (a more confident pup) than a pup that's been over-corrected to the point of not wanting to bite at all. IF you're training/goal is bitework. JMO. 

and i'm not understanding something you could/would clarify for me: in your OP, it sounds as if you purchased the dog fr a breeder, then you state that he's gone to another owner. are you the breeder, or was your place a "train station" in this dog's life? or are you the breeder?


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## Jason Lin (May 26, 2009)

In an earlier post, Debbie and few others were talking about physical corrections - which I assume involves more than "hey, don't bite me, bite this toy here". How much do you correct (or how do you correct) without making them gun shy?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jason Lin said:


> In an earlier post, Debbie and few others were talking about physical corrections - which I assume involves more than "hey, don't bite me, bite this toy here". How much do you correct (or how do you correct) without making them gun shy?


Would depend on the character of the puppy. Mine are strong and not sensitive and would bite hard on each other as well. I separate them at a young age (depends on the dynamics of the individual litter) and then hike with them together and work each one and hang with each one "one on one" as well.

If you have a sensitive pup, then maybe a couple "whacks" or "shakes" would turn it to mush..but, that's not a pup I'd keep anyways. I must stress that I play and interact with the puppies a lot and give them a lot of exercise and re-direct to a tug/roll/toy so they have a bond and relationship with me. 95% of the time everything is perfect and play is great and maybe 5% they are in trouble. They trust me. I'm fair and never do it out of anger. I'd never keep a pup that when it gets hurt, it goes away and sulks aka not resilient.

Can't even begin to describe how to balance it on the internet.


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