# What is the most giant dog you can think of with less probs?



## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Just out of curiosity. I'm looking around, found a few good breeders who have little to no ethics(good thing) which think culling, etc is okay. From what I've seen and know about the giant breeds, I've been leaning towards getting a Saint Bernard(male/intact). I'm aware of the epilepsy factor, and the breeder has had no epilepsy in the lines so far, nor any of the new blood she has flew in.

I've thought about an English or American mastiff, but.. I just don't know. My friend's mastiff is fat and lazy which is most likely caused by lack of exercise. The dog has also developed several fatty tumors, which kinda scare me about the genetics. I've thought maybe from the food or because he was neutered so early, but think the cause is most likely genetically passed. I don't mind hair, and certainly wouldn't mind drool. 

Can you think of any other breeds which do alright in the cold and can do work(pulling, carrying)?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Presa Canario


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

and not sure why Swiss Mountain Dogs wouldn't do well?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Where is all the Chuck Norris stuff coming from?

There are lots of dogs to choose from. Anatolian Shepherds, Caucasian Mountain dogs, Bernese Mountain dogs. Tibetan Mastiffs. Except for the Bernese, I don't think that health problems are an issue.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Where is all the Chuck Norris stuff coming from?
> 
> There are lots of dogs to choose from. Anatolian Shepherds, Caucasian Mountain dogs, Bernese Mountain dogs. Tibetan Mastiffs. Except for the Bernese, I don't think that health problems are an issue.


Yeah, Anatolians would be interesting, too. I have no idea about trainability of any of the mastiffs for pulling stuff. The presas at the kennel I train at seem like they can do all kinds of stuff, neat dogs. No issues with cold that I'm aware of.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

chuck norris' tears can cure cancer, but since he has NEVER cried, it's a moot point...


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> chuck norris' tears can cure cancer, but since he has NEVER cried, it's a moot point...


The leading causes of death in the United States are: 1. Heart Disease 2. Chuck Norris 3. Cancer


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Chuck Norris sold his soul to the devil for his rugged good looks and unparalleled martial arts ability. Shortly after the transaction was finalized, Chuck roundhouse-kicked the devil in the face and took his soul back. The devil, who appreciates irony, couldn't stay mad and admitted he should have seen it coming. They now play poker every second Wednesday of the month.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Dangit, explain the Chuck Norris thing.

Presas are retarded. :twisted:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

It's an old internet goof. I found a list of them the other day and it made me laugh again.

True statement: I was in France a few years ago..."Walker Texas Ranger" was, at that time, in the top ten shows in France. Which made me laugh out loud and confirmed just how awesome Chuck Norris is.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Where is all the Chuck Norris stuff coming from?
> 
> There are lots of dogs to choose from. Anatolian Shepherds, Caucasian Mountain dogs, Bernese Mountain dogs. Tibetan Mastiffs. Except for the Bernese, I don't think that health problems are an issue.


Anatolian wouldn't do well because of the "always increasing territory". I'm not sure if it is possible to train a Anatolian to stay in a certain unfenced area. Unless I hear otherwise this dog isn't a good dog for my situation.

I live near a church and there are many kids. I will have a fenced area soon, but I do like dogs to run with one another on the 20 acres of private forest.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Inuit Dogs or Greenland Husky(basically the same thing)freighting -bred Alaskan Husky, some of the livestock guarding breeds - Anatolians or Akbash dogs - basically anything that is a purpose bred working dog as opposed to show/pet breeding. I would stay way from "giant" anything as the bigger you get the more health problems come with it and generally have low activity levels and lack stamina. Don't forget that there are alot of nice large mixed bred dogs in shelters that are perfectly capable of some "work".
Also some hunting breed dogs would do well - labs are very good strong all around workers and a good lab is a very versatile and trainable dog. And I have seen Chessies in harness also. Also keep in mind that alot of modern-bred Saint Bernard, etc have more haircoat on them due to show breeding. Lots of hair does not always constitute warm if it is not of the correct texture(it snowballs). Same goes for feet and alot of other things - dogs that were traditionally working dogs have been ruined and watered down and are incapable of their traditional work so stay with working bred dogs if you can. There are still some nice Malamutes out there but again there is more show/pet breeding out there than working kennels so choose carefully.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

all of the truly giant breeds have health problems and short lifespans. The "smaller" giant breeds that are healthier in my experience are Anatolians, Bernese, Swissies (temperament problems to watch for with the Swissies though), and most of the "smaller" mastiffs. The bigger they are, the more problems they seem to have and the shorter their lifespans seem to be due to those problems.

St. Bernards have MANY problems, not only epilepsy. I have yet to meet one with good hips - most I have met have had total hip replacements before they were 2 years old. Skin problems/allergies, bad teeth, bad eyes, bad temperament. Lots and lots of drool and hair. Same could be said about the English Mastiffs, though most I have known had reasonable if aloof temperaments, and of course less hair.
I don't personally like the temperaments of the smaller mastiff breeds such as Corso, Bordeaux, Fila, etc.  They are too sharp/shy and then aggressive-no warning IMO.
molly


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

<<I'm looking around, found a few good breeders who have little to no ethics(good thing) which think culling, etc is okay.>> 

Sorry just couldn't let this go by. Personally, I don't think culling shows a lack of ethics. Perhaps not PC, certainly somthing that is not publicized outside the dog world, but not a lack of ethics.

<<<Now back to your regularly scheduled question about pulling dogs>>>

DFrost


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> all of the truly giant breeds have health problems and short lifespans. The "smaller" giant breeds that are healthier in my experience are Anatolians, Bernese, Swissies (temperament problems to watch for with the Swissies though), and most of the "smaller" mastiffs. The bigger they are, the more problems they seem to have and the shorter their lifespans seem to be due to those problems.
> 
> St. Bernards have MANY problems, not only epilepsy. I have yet to meet one with good hips - most I have met have had total hip replacements before they were 2 years old. Skin problems/allergies, bad teeth, bad eyes, bad temperament. Lots and lots of drool and hair. Same could be said about the English Mastiffs, though most I have known had reasonable if aloof temperaments, and of course less hair.
> I don't personally like the temperaments of the smaller mastiff breeds such as Corso, Bordeaux, Fila, etc. They are too sharp/shy and then aggressive-no warning IMO.
> molly


Oh, I know there are other problems saints have, but I think epilepsy is one of the worst. There is a local breeder about 600 miles away at North Pole. I believe she knows what she is talking about and is very picky on what saints she breeds.

I'm looking for a dog which can do work, doesn't have to do it all day. Also a running partner but take mind my knee is going bad so how much exercise(try 3 times a day) I can perform is up to my knee.

I'll have a look at the breeds you mentioned, except the ana. From what I've gathered even from the most respectable ana breeders is the dogs have an increasing territory. This is bad as I try to allow free roaming during supervision with other dogs, and there are several children at the church.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> I don't personally like the temperaments of the smaller mastiff breeds such as Corso, Bordeaux, Fila, etc. They are too sharp/shy and then aggressive-no warning IMO.
> molly


I'm very impressed with the Presas at the kennel I train at--Red Star Kennels--they seem to be very sound, trainable, and neat dogs. Not a dog for everybody (not for most everyone, IMO).

I really don't know anything about Filas but not sure I'd ever want anything like that around me. They sound neat, but no way. Maybe if I get that cabin up in Montana the Unabomber used to have.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

David Frost said:


> <<I'm looking around, found a few good breeders who have little to no ethics(good thing) which think culling, etc is okay.>>
> 
> Sorry just couldn't let this go by. Personally, I don't think culling shows a lack of ethics. Perhaps not PC, certainly somthing that is not publicized outside the dog world, but not a lack of ethics.
> 
> ...


my apologies if I used the wrong word. Someone one a very very bad PETA-filled forum told me I had no ethics.

I think culling is good animal management, others might say otherwise, I ignore them.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

See how nice I was. I haven't even bagged on him for having dogs not properly contained and just running free where they can get killed.

Why not a Malamute? I hear they can take decoys down, never bother cats, and are highly protective against rabid weasel attacks.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

David Ross said:


> I'll have a look at the breeds you mentioned, except the ana. From what I've gathered even from the most respectable ana breeders is the dogs have an increasing territory. This is bad as I try to allow free roaming during supervision with other dogs, and there are several children at the church.


I would start any searches for Presas at Red Star Kennel.

http://www.red-star-kennel.com/default-frames.htm

Mark Keating (trainer) is a member here, though I don't think he checks his email much. I'm out there this Sunday, etc. so let me know if anything's interesting to you. I think they are neat dogs out there. Just played with some pups they had two weeks ago.


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

I always sort of admired Great Pyranese dogs.Around here people have quite a few goats(I hate goats BTW) and they have these Pyranese/St B crosses that keep the undesirables out.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I have known several anatolians - all of the ones I have known have been kept for livestock guardians. They seemed healthy and sound, good-looking dogs but quite aggressive (they never 'attacked' but they would stand their ground and act like they might) - their owners said they were especially good at roaming the perimeter of the property and killing anything that came over or under the boundary fence - including critters such as fox, coyote, deer, and the neighbor's hunting beagles  Her anatolians would sleep near the house all day, but they were not 'friendly' family dogs, very aloof even to their own people - and they would roam all night, checking in with the livestock (sheep and goats) but mainly roaming all night. The same owner kept one Great Pyrinees with the livestock, which never left the herd including to eat - had to bring the food out to the dog. This dog would never roam, was not aggressive at all but cared for nothing and noone except those sheep/goats. But that's probably because it was raised with the sheep and not with the people.

molly

molly


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> See how nice I was. I haven't even bagged on him for having dogs not properly contained and just running free where they can get killed.
> 
> Why not a Malamute? I hear they can take decoys down, never bother cats, and are highly protective against rabid weasel attacks.


The road is *far* away. I also do territory training, she will never go outside the area else she knows I'm waiting with a not so pleasant greeting. I've tagged a camera to my place and I watch her from work if she is outside playing when not in the fence. She is perfectly capable by herself. I'll be training the next dog this way.

/me grins at the weasel remark. If I showed you this picture of me skinning a weasel.. *heheh* 

Why not a malamute? I'm trying to learn how to be a proper and reputable breeder. I'm wanting to pick a giant breed and also train. Why a giant breed? I play with my 80 lb girl all the time, however I always feel like I'm gonna break her somehow. I know dogs are tough and etc, but I'd feel better with a larger dog. There is much more to the story though, many reasons. I just didn't realize but malamutes are small in comparison to when I was around tons of dogs years ago. Its mostly psychological.

I do think my cute girl would be great as a pet, not as a breeding dog. She is okay for running, but she recently cut her paw as well.. The would is definitely going to scar, I'm not sure if the injury will create a tear or a repeat of the even if I work her hard.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> I have known several anatolians - all of the ones I have known have been kept for livestock guardians. They seemed healthy and sound, good-looking dogs but quite aggressive (they never 'attacked' but they would stand their ground and act like they might) - their owners said they were especially good at roaming the perimeter of the property and killing anything that came over or under the boundary fence - including critters such as fox, coyote, deer, and the neighbor's hunting beagles  Her anatolians would sleep near the house all day, but they were not 'friendly' family dogs, very aloof even to their own people - and they would roam all night, checking in with the livestock (sheep and goats) but mainly roaming all night. The same owner kept one Great Pyrinees with the livestock, which never left the herd including to eat - had to bring the food out to the dog. This dog would never roam, was not aggressive at all but cared for nothing and noone except those sheep/goats. But that's probably because it was raised with the sheep and not with the people.
> 
> molly
> 
> molly


I do love how anas act. I just can't risk it and I've never tried training an ana. I suppose it would be my first choice in a guarded area.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

> I really don't know anything about Filas but not sure I'd ever want anything like that around me.


the only experience I have had with Filas, is years ago my farrier/blacksmith owned and bred them. He had owned/bred them for many years, they were "his" breed. He also had horses, and the dogs always lived around the horses with no problem. He was down to two dogs, he had raised from puppies, and had one special horse that was 20+ years old, a pet. One day the two dogs attacked the horse for no reason, according to him - and he couldn't get them to stop, even after trying to choke them off, hit them with 4X4, etc. He finally got them off and promptly shot both dogs, and had to also put the horse down. He told me he always knew the dogs would 'do something like that' someday, and he learned the hard way he was right. So that's my only experience second-hand with Filas, obviously I'd never have or recommend one.
I just finished training (pet obedience/manners) a young female Dogue De Bordeaux - nice dog. Soft but not sensitive. I could see her being aggressive to someone she didn't know, but if that someone stood up to her she'd back down. Not a strong dog mentally - but very strong physically. Pretty impressive looking too, even as a female.

molly


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

I've been reading the replies and the forum. Are you guys saying get a good heavy dog which has the ability to protect?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

David Ross said:


> I've been reading the replies and the forum. Are you guys saying get a good heavy dog which has the ability to protect?


I'm not. Based on your question, I"m saying get a big healthy dog that's robust enough for your climate that you can train.

Most of the breeds people would offer up for those types of specs are also going to have a tendency to protect.

Edited to say many of those breeds will be too much for someone--not saying you--who is not an assertive and experienced dog handler. Most all of them would be way too much for me.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I say get a Mal, or a GSD. Who wants a junker breed that believe the hype but never really breed for these tendancys. Sure the breeds I named above are cute, but who cares?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Who wants a junker breed that believe the hype but never really breed for these tendancys

Should say: Who wants a junker from a breeder that believes the hype, but never breed for these tendancys.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Edited to say many of those breeds will be too much for someone--not saying you--who is not an assertive and experienced dog handler. Most all of them would be way too much for me.


I think my girl is great, but I do let her play with this american mastiff, he seems to be too much for her as he sometimes hurts her(lands on her, drew blood on the ear). He was only playing, but he played too hard. This is the type of situation I want to avoid. I know a dog acts not only depends on the breed but the blood lines. I'm doing all my homework and answering more questions then I did last time. Some were very helpful and even agreed to mentor me on questions about breeding and how to recognize bad people.

I myself play with the american mastiff(200lbs). I do like big dogs, as it makes me feel when I was a kid, nostalgia I guess. Rough housing is great with him. Though he does pin me down sometimes, damn  fun though.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

I know nazink!!! Sgt. What's his name, from Hogan's Heroes...

...but what are Leonbergers like?


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I was just going to add a couple breeds that I do really like in looks, temperament, and as far as I know - good health and hips. Leonburgers - one of my puppy owners has Leonburgers and shows them - really big, really NICE dogs without the health problems that St.s have. They are massive dogs and still quite athletic. I have never met one that wasn't really great in temperament. And, American Bulldog - the males can be big, and also some of them can work! I am no expert on weight-pulling, but I think they are a favorite breed for this.

molly


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Sgt. What's his name, from Hogan's Heroes...[/size]


Schultz




I'm a Trivial Pursuit champ.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> I was just going to add a couple breeds that I do really like in looks, temperament, and as far as I know - good health and hips. Leonburgers - one of my puppy owners has Leonburgers and shows them - really big, really NICE dogs without the health problems that St.s have. They are massive dogs and still quite athletic. I have never met one that wasn't really great in temperament. And, American Bulldog - the males can be big, and also some of them can work! I am no expert on weight-pulling, but I think they are a favorite breed for this.
> 
> molly


Looks like a really good family dog. Best not left alone or will develop destructive habits. Currently I'm living in a place by myself. I don't expect to get married or have kids in the near future. They look like a high energy dog, which isn't a bad thing unless they are like my girl. I have only so much running energy.

~my girl~
Malamutes eat and malamutes eat
Lets play, run and run some more! yippee

The Leonbergers club website says they develop depressed emotions when left alone. The breeder who I received my girl thought she would be okay with me. Another problem with malamutes are the fact they are pack oriented. If I'm not home, she gets all howly and depressed, which in return makes me feel bad since one of the reasons I received her is to not be alone myself. I'd feel bad about getting a Leonberger.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Andres Martin said:
> 
> 
> > Sgt. What's his name, from Hogan's Heroes...[/size]
> ...


"I know nothing! I see nothing, and I say nothing!"

I loved the show. I'll probably get it on dvd. The french guy, Pierre, is funny. My favorite part of the show is the awful camp security.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Hey David...you want "pulling", not that active unless you want, sociable, big...really big, powerful, you're not home that much...I have EXACTLY what you need...just scroll down a bit.
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a bit more
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hond...ategoryZ6724QQihZ019QQitemZ290055740080QQrdZ1

It's perfect.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Hey David...you want "pulling", not that active unless you want, sociable, big...really big, powerful, you're not home that much...I have EXACTLY what you need...just scroll down a bit.
> It's perfect.


I never said I was or wasnt home much. My schedule is dynamic and I can work from home. My girl cries(whooooooos) after 15 minutes, which tells me she really doesn't like being alone. Even if I take her to work in my car.. Whooooooooooo... I do want a pulling dog and a malamute is just fine. However I'm looking for a dog which is like the American mastiff but not like the low energy. The american mastiff is great, and I could be misjudging them because my friend doesn't exercise him often. Feel free to correct me if I have misjudged them. Saints seem to be able to pull and have moderate energy, which is in the area in which I'm looking. I also need a dog who won't always try to eat the hurt wild life I bring home. My girl is just fine with animals, however I'm not sure about others. I feel it is also a genetics issue(prey drive), not just a training issue.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Thank you everybody who gave some ideas on other dogs I could consider!

Thanks again,
David


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Hey David--

Looking at your last few posts, I think I saw a bit more clearly on what you're after...a Presa would be a bad choice. They are intense and high-maintenance dogs. Definitely need a lot of guidance, work, etc. and can be tragedies waiting to happen. American bulldogs might not be a great selection either. Just my two cents.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Hey David--
> 
> Looking at your last few posts, I think I saw a bit more clearly on what you're after...a Presa would be a bad choice. They are intense and high-maintenance dogs. Definitely need a lot of guidance, work, etc. and can be tragedies waiting to happen. American bulldogs might not be a great selection either. Just my two cents.


Yeah, I'm looking for a dog I can work with and not some dog who just sits there like a bump on the log. Some breed which also can be tame during the days where I may be unable to run as much.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Try a Scottish deerhound. They are typically a bit taller than English greyhounds but not as tall and massive as Irish wolfhounds and with better health and longevity. Good with kids and quietly social, but pretty imposing just for their size and are almost always used in medieval era movies where the bad guy goes "release the hounds!" In fact, just saw some when I re-watched _Robin Hood Prince of Thieves_ last night. I've always wanted to watch these guys do lure coursing. 

I don't think I've seen a Leonberger in person, but from what very little I've read, they are one of the few mastiff derived dogs that are relatively dry mouthed. Always a plus! As much as I like their big doofy attitude, that's why I don't let DH get a Great Dane.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

D'oh! Silly me, didn't read the part about you wanted them for carting. Nevermind on the deerhound then. I'd like one for myself though. How about a working lines Newfoundland or Landseer?


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> D'oh! Silly me, didn't read the part about you wanted them for carting. Nevermind on the deerhound then. I'd like one for myself though. How about a working lines Newfoundland or Landseer?


Leonberger dogs are gigantic p******[/mod edit]..
Newfies seem courageous, and needs lots of training(which I like), and can be laze(good too). However the question is, can they attack? I know they're good with children. My friend always goes on how his newfie was the greatest thing in the world. 6 years later his parents who moved are still trying to get rid of newfie hair.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I would not depend on a Leonburger or Newfie to be protective, even with training. They are simply not bred for that - I have known other giant breeds to be aggressive (St. Bernards, English Mastiff, Great Dane) - but IMO their aggression was fear-based and not a sign of strong temperament. I have, however, known one English Mastiff, a Bull Mastiff (another breed to think about perhaps, I love the look of Bull Mastiffs), and a Great Dane who did Schutzhund and Personal Protection training, and did it quite well for their size and lack of athletic ability. There is a guy in my club that has a Boerboal (did I kill the spelling?) - African Mastiff - he is very handsome dark brindle - sort of looks like a small Bull Mastiff - about 110 lbs so not a light-weight. He is a nice dog and doing Schh with seemingly stable temperament if not high energy or drive. He would definately be large enough to pull some weight also, and I know they are bred to be naturally protective.

molly


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Molly, do you know where they got their Dane for Schutzhund? DH goes on and on about wanting one. :roll: Maybe I could oblige him if they could do Schutzhund as well. I remember a while back reading about that they were not totally uncommon in Germany a while back to do Schutzhund with. As long as he doesn't mind cleaning up the drool.

David, I remember someone who wrote into Ed Frawley on Leerburg about Orbee balls did Schutzhund with their Bernese Mountain Dogs. http://www.leerburg.com/788.htm I might also second a Great Pyrenees as they are good natured and good at carting, but protective as flock guardian dogs.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

The Great Dane I knew that did Schh was years ago, a black one that worked with Rick Burgos. I don't believe he was ever titled, though. The English Mastiff worked in the Raleigh Schh Club and he got his BH and his WH but never Schh1. They did work/train the dogs with the clubs though, and the dogs did "ok". That said, I have known many other Great Danes and Mastiffs that would never be able to work - though the Danes I have known would/could be protective and stand their ground. I have heard too that Danes are more popular in Germany for working - though I can't imagine they would be VERY popular for Schh.

molly


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

For him, it wouldn't need to be real whiz bang dog or anything. Just a pet that he could also train. Just to a BH or a Sch I would be plenty. Though he loves my dogs, he doesn't do any of the training.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> For him, it wouldn't need to be real whiz bang dog or anything. Just a pet that he could also train. Just to a BH or a Sch I would be plenty. Though he loves my dogs, he doesn't do any of the training.


a pet? you're killing me here. I don't want a pet., I want a dog I can learn from and visa versa to see if I want to go further in to dog training. Might not be a dog which does bitework, but just because it can't do bitework doesn't mean it isn't a working dog.

pet is one of those words I dislike. a pet often depicts a dog tied up in the back always there. pet.. *shrug*.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I think Maren was talking about her husband, who was interested in a Great Dane. What do you think about the Bull Mastiff? I think they could do the weight pulling, are not so big as to have so many health problems, and are strong in temperament - 

molly


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> I think Maren was talking about her husband, who was interested in a Great Dane. What do you think about the Bull Mastiff? I think they could do the weight pulling, are not so big as to have so many health problems, and are strong in temperament -
> 
> molly


Talking to her husband, oh.  

I did look at bull mastiffs before and strayed away because of the prone to cancer. I'd have to do more research as to what cancer. First cancers which comes to mind is prostate cancer and mammary cancer. I'd have to call a bull mastiff breeder. I'm writing all these breeds down on the forum.

bullmastiff seems to be a hold em down dog for protection. I wonder if they can be used in bitework.

I really want to get a dog which can do pulling by itself. If I went down to the larger dog status(90~) I'd have more options but loose some pulling power.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

ditto with Woody on the Presa. Red Star kennel in particular.
We have a Presa breeder on our club and her best stud dog is from Red Star.
Now the short coat in ak is another thing altogether. 
As Lynn said, the St. Bernardhas a long and a short coat. I'ts been mentioned in the history of the St. Bernard monks that the short hair was the only ones they used because of the balling effect of the snow with the longhair variety.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> ditto with Woody on the Presa. Red Star kennel in particular.
> We have a Presa breeder on our club and her best stud dog is from Red Star.
> Now the short coat in ak is another thing altogether.
> As Lynn said, the St. Bernardhas a long and a short coat. I'ts been mentioned in the history of the St. Bernard monks that the short hair was the only ones they used because of the balling effect of the snow with the longhair variety.


Oh yes, I know. I've spoken with a particular star breeder in North pole who breeds saints. If I got a saint it would be short. The shorts do better in snow believe it or not. The long hair saints tend to get ice clumps all over.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

the short coat on a St. is not the same as a short coat like Presa - the short-coated St. is still VERY thick and double-coated - still lots of shedding. But not the length and softness so easier-care.

m


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> I think Maren was talking about her husband, who was interested in a Great Dane. What do you think about the Bull Mastiff? I think they could do the weight pulling, are not so big as to have so many health problems, and are strong in temperament -
> 
> molly


aww, seems a bullmastiff would turn in to a doggie sickle here in Alaska.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> the short coat on a St. is not the same as a short coat like Presa - the short-coated St. is still VERY thick and double-coated - still lots of shedding. But not the length and softness so easier-care.
> 
> m


Agreed!
The first obedience class I ever attended (1965) was with a short coated Saint. She had lots of aggression also but it was more fear based, as you mentioned.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

All right you nutters, found this on another board. Since we are talking about Anatolians I thought this was some funny useless tripe, with all the typical "breeder says" crap in it.

http://b2.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1162337697&user=Frabo


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I am not sure where the giants start but for Alaska. the bigger airedales would work and they like the cold. They are stubborn and the handler attitude described would be lucky to get anywhere with them. Other than that, They can walk the walk because they are bone crushers as an ex can attest to  The one on the left, Curly Bil is about 105 and about 15 mo. The one on the right is Odin at about 20 mo and 97. They have exceptionally large mouths and can hold a person or other dogs by the head if that is what you are into. Personally, I find them user friendly on game animals as there is no suffering when the dog can mash a ***** chest as flat a a pancake when he closes his mouth. One drawback is they are not in the guardian class as most protection work dogs appear to be. They are a search and destroy type dog but they are protective.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

How big is your igloo door? :lol: Seriously though, do you go out in the wilderness much, wading through alot of fallen timber?

Did anyone mention the Black Russian Terrier? Don't know of all the health risks.


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## Liz Monty (Oct 22, 2006)

Daryl, that's a great picture. I think the mal's make the best character/humourous shots =D>


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