# Terms - cold nose and/or cold track



## Nicole Stark

Technically this fits in a different section but since I wasn't sure how the membership sorted their posts to read I thought I'd put this in a place where it fit best.

These terms I encountered and I was curious if anyone here uses these specific terms (SAR, tracking, etc.) and if so what do they mean to you? 

For those that do SAR in terms of training what are some of the oldest tracks you have attempted to work? In general practice, how are old are some of the typical tracks and at what point do air scenting dogs enter the picture? Last, when air scenting dogs enter the picture in general approximately what are their limitations - as at what point may they no longer be able to be successful?


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## Sarah Platts

Nicole,

'Cold nose' is the term that some give for dogs that excel at working trails that aren't 'hot tracks'. Hot tracks for a police dog is normally 15-30 minutes old although come have tried ones that are 60 minutes old. {Howard, please feel free to correct me on this). A hot track for a sar dog can be 6-8-24 hours old depending on how the handler defines it. For me, anything less than 3 days old is a hot track. 

Tracking: (sometimes interchanged with trailing) is a term I put to ground disturbance, or follows the last human scent into an area. Typically most patrol K9s fall into this bracket

Trailing: is a dog that is given a scent article of the scent to follow. Able to deal with a great contamination level and age than the tracking dog.

I sent you a PM on the ages I have worked so will discuss what the industry is comfortable with. Let me preface with the fact that NO ONE knows how long scent lasts. There is a lot of arguing over it but one really has to ask the dog who, curiously, isn't telling. Because of this it defaults what the handler feels comfortable with. There was one handler who was flabbergasted when their dog worked one that was 10 days old. He was not told how old the trail was and was up front that if he had know how old the track was, he would have never worked it citing the age as being to old to have viable scent. For me, I let the dog determine what they can or can't work. I drop the dog and either they go someplace or they don't.

The environment and type of dog available can determine what is used. Airscent dogs in my city of over 300,000 people are less seful unless you go to the farmland areas. The need for scent specific dogs is heavy in this situation. Go to more rural areas and airscent dogs are the norm. Trailing dogs are few and far between although very useful even in a rural search. You can use a trailing dog to help tighten up a search area. There have been finds by individuals leap-frogging ahead of my dog and getting a visual on the missing subject. Its a tool in the search tool box.

Airscent dogs can enter into the picture quickly, again, it depends on what's available. Whether ground or dog team, the first step is a hasty search. As the name implies, these are searches of high probability areas or deployment of dogs into areas where the ability to quickly pick up scent is probable such going up terrain drainages. These are the quick and dirty searches for the easy answer. These can be areas that are attractions or places the subject has spoken about going to. The airscent dog can be used throughout the search but depending on the number of people wandering about can be a detriment. These dogs are trained to alert on any human in the area. Typically, sar managers like to clear out the people before sending in a dog team so they can focus on the missing person and not all the extra searchers or other folks wandering around. In some cases, that's not a bad thing as it gives you a chance to talk to other hikers or park users to see if they have seen the missing subject.

Your question on the surface appears simple but books have been written on the subject. I'm hoping Misty will chime in here too as her experiences differ from mine.


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## Nicole Stark

Sarah Platts said:


> Your question on the surface appears simple but books have been written on the subject. I'm hoping Misty will chime in here too as her experiences differ from mine.


Hi Sarah, thank you for the prompt and detailed reply. I welcome input from anyone interested in commenting on the subject. I haven't seen the terms used here or if I have I didn't happen to notice that I didn't necessarily know if they were loosely used or had a fairly reasonable definition behind them.


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## Phil Dodson

Nice read Sarah!


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## Misty Wegner

I agree with Sarah who detailed very nicely. I have not had the more extreme in aging that Sarah has, but I have worked double blind close to two weeks with accuracy and success.. Well, my dogs worked it, lol. On missions the furthest out thus far has been 3 days with confirmation that my dog was correct and on track. 

I agree also that no specific date or time can be set on odor for their are so many factors that determine viability. I've found personally, the cooler moisture weather to be the most effective in aiding the dogs search for odor, however, I played with longer aging this year in the extremely dry hot weather we had this summer, like desert dry hot, with more success than I expected. 

I do believe that we limit our dogs. We set assumptions and then are forced by peer pressure to conform to the 'standards'. I also believe that if we are not honest with our failures and success (and I've felt pressured not to admit to success in certain groups because it is outside their comfort factor and thus condemned) than there will be those charlatans that exaggerate their success and dogs abilities thus giving trailers a bad name... And ultimately, limiting the success or callouts of honest and capable handler's..


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## Nicole Stark

Misty Wegner said:


> I do believe that we limit our dogs. We set assumptions and then are forced by peer pressure to conform to the 'standards'. I also believe that if we are not honest with our failures and success (and I've felt pressured not to admit to success in certain groups because it is outside their comfort factor and thus condemned).


Thank you for posting your thoughts. One particular item caught my attention (above) that I entirely agree with. I suspect it's one of the reasons behind why I prefer to work alone and do the things I do, which largely is determined by the dog and less so by me. In my mind, anything is possible. Thought prisons are a cancer.


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## Misty Wegner

Understand Nicole, but in SAR it is a team effort, so while some try to undermine confidence and set parameters, you ultimately have to be the judge of you and your dogs capabilities and stand by your convictions... Hard, but necessary


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## Howard Knauf

Hot tracks for PSDs are in the 15-30 minute range. Seeing as bad guys will find safe harbor or transportation in that period of time, we are forced to rush the track. The sooner we get started the better. I've had one successful 90 minute track but in all fairness I had a blood trail to start the track. I've tried to stretch my set times but realistically it is a waste of time for a PSD...that is why I concentrate on hard surface tracking primarily because I work in an urban/suburban enviroment. I also concentrate on discrimination tracks as there are many times multiple offenders so we try to catch the figurative big fish so the dog needs to be able to put on a target and stay on it. 

Still...I'm getting a kick out of this SAR info.\\/


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## Sarah Platts

Howard Knauf said:


> I had a blood trail to start the track.


BTW, I'm not sure science has figured it out yet, but trailing handlers have learned that blood is scent specific.


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## Nicole Stark

Sarah, what exactly do you mean by that? I read it and though, of course it is but I would like to know if you have any particulars or if you were referring to something specific?


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## Sarah Platts

you use the actual blood as a scent article to scent the dog on for the trail. For a cadaver dog, it's considered generic human material. When you use it like a scent article in trailing work then it's specific to that person.


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## Howard Knauf

Sarah Platts said:


> you use the actual blood as a scent article to scent the dog on for the trail. For a cadaver dog, it's considered generic human material. When you use it like a scent article in trailing work then it's specific to that person.


 Exactly. The blood as a scent article is no biggie...until the track is contaminated by other humans. There were numerous pedestrians who had been on the suspects flight path prior to my arrival. The dog had to form a scent picture with the blood/suspect odor...AND contaminating odors of pedestrians. The amazing thing is that he banked the odors and was able to put the puzzle together to stay on a target only he could figure out. Just blows my mind. Mind you, the track wasn't a pretty sight and I just held on for the ride. There was a lot of investigating of the cross tracks etc until he could determine what pieces went where. As we got further from the scene the track tightened up because all the lookie loos were close to the crime scene mainly.


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## sefi sahar

very intresting terminology . we have no such terms here. just fresh tracks and older tracks. 

we do have names for fresher tracks and tracks that the personal scent whare off but still have difrrent ground press scent in the foot prints and the other way arround. i dont know how they translate to english.
it is great reading you all.


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## Sarah Platts

Sefi,

What are the terms you use in your language? And the definition in your language. Don't convert to English.

thanks


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## sefi sahar

Sarah you mean how we write them or what they sounds like?


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## Nicole Stark

Safi, write it exactly as you would in your own language. Not in English.


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## sefi sahar

its ????? ???? and ????? ??????


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## sefi sahar

grrr the forum do not support my languge (hebrew). the first sounds like " ikvot hamra" ikvot means tracks the other word is from arabic and means femin red it also a nick name in my languge (hebrew) of certain red kind of soil but i doubt its the right meanning. the other one is sounds like "ikvot shufot" which could means something like "drifted tracks" again i doubt if its the right translation nor meanning.


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## Bob Scott

Selfi s it possible your talking about ground and vegetation disturbance?

In sport "tracking" that is often a big element in starting a new pup or dog but quite possible used in trailing also.


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## sefi sahar

hi bob 
its not exactly just about ground disterbances this terms referd to extreme gaps in 
ratio difrences between ground disterbances smell and human personal smell.
i hope i explain it right.


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## Bob Scott

Makes more sense!


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