# Is deprivation a good thing for competition dogsport



## Esther Chai (Feb 18, 2009)

Hello, I am just a novice in schutzhund and recently managed to obtained a BH for my GSD at 22 months. Naturally, I am chuffed to say the least.

I have another lovely 8 year old ESS as a pet. Both the dogs live in the house and is walked twice a day. I sometimes squeeze in a bit of heelwork, downstays and retrieves when we are out and about. The dogs get a lot of free running and is pretty good in recall. Noticibly they are happy  I am.

What I find difficult is training for speed like the super fast retrieves, the drivy heeling, the intensity for focus etc.

I like to know how handlers are able to maintained the competitive edge to their training approach. I have often heard that competition dogs are kept in a tighter conditions and deprivation (not relating to cruelty) of its freedom and creature comforts can impact on their drives to perform better.

Is this true?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have heard that it is used sometimes. Not a fan of it.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Esther Chai said:


> Hello, I am just a novice in schutzhund and recently managed to obtained a BH for my GSD at 22 months. Naturally, I am chuffed to say the least.
> 
> I have another lovely 8 year old ESS as a pet. Both the dogs live in the house and is walked twice a day. I sometimes squeeze in a bit of heelwork, downstays and retrieves when we are out and about. The dogs get a lot of free running and is pretty good in recall. Noticibly they are happy  I am.
> 
> ...


If you think about the feeling of Hunger Vs. the feeling of satiation it may put it into more of a prespective of the idea of deprivation can do. This can happen with the company of people, the presence of toys. Now depriving the dog of it's company with you prior to training and trialing could build some "hunger" to be with you. And keeping toys up until training will make them more valuable. And keeping play limited to the field could make the field more exciting.

Now I doubt depriving the dog the use of a dog bed will have any effect on training. Making them sleep outside....or any of that non-sense. 

I think the deprivation has to be specific to obtaining satiation to what they want. So if they are hungry...food. Alone....having company with you. Bored.....toys. But what does sleeping outside without heat or air conditioning do? Schutzhund training is not going to satiate thier hunger for comfortable tempatures.

And I think that deprivation done to much, as you alluded to can do more damage than good. So, When I want to train I may not give the dog much attention that day. I may kennel them that day. But I keep it in reseaonable amounts.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If you have a "good" dog you don't have to deprive them of anything. JMHO!
That's the problem witha lot of dogs and discussed a bit in another post. To many try and change what they have instead of spending time to get what they want/need.
Nothing wrong with that if you content with whatever you have but it may limit you in how far in sport/work you can go.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> If you have a "good" dog you don't have to deprive them of anything. JMHO!
> That's the problem witha lot of dogs and discussed a bit in another post. To many try and change what they have instead of spending time to get what they want/need.
> Nothing wrong with that if you content with whatever you have but it may limit you in how far in sport/work you can go.


Bob, I agree you simply cannot take something that is not there...like drive and create it. But you can take something that is there and amplify it. I do not think that deprivation will make shitter a winner, but It could make a 3rd place dog a 1st place dog. I believe Ivan Balabanov uses deprivation. As does Ushi Fuchs, Knut Fuchs, Bert Aerts, Dean Calederon...All those folks have had success. Also the latest issue of Schutzund USA had a section where they asked a bunch of competetiors if they kenneled...every top level competetior claimed to use kenneling...and there explanations were all similar. if you let the dog roll with you all the time...the handler is viewed more mundane than if kenneled. I may disagree to the level they kennel...but they claim deprivation is an important part of thier program. 

Trying to change what you have is no more than dog training. But again I think even the best of the dogs are still capable of being satiated and can look at what was once a very exciting endeavor, and now have thier fill of it. 


Ever eat your favorite food all the time and then get sick of it?

Ever been around someone too much, and then need some space?

Ever play a sport and get burnt out on it?

Now...

Have you ever not had a hot meal in a time? it tastes better when you finally get it

Have you ever been alone for awhile and wished to have company? how wonderful it is when finally have a reunion with them

Ever not get to go dog training and all you want to do is go training? man, when you finally get the leash on the dog...it's good to be back.

Having feelings like this does not make you some kind of faulty human.

Expecting a dog to be devoid of these feelings is very unrealistic. I also think to see a dog bored with training, a toy or food....Is not a mark of dog that is not fit of high competetion....and by far not a reason to nueter them, send them to a forever home...and go shopping for a new dog.

This is not a crutch but one more training tool to get something more from the dog.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Esther Chai said:


> I have another lovely 8 year old ESS as a pet. Both the dogs live in the house and is walked twice a day. I sometimes squeeze in a bit of heelwork, downstays and retrieves when we are out and about. The dogs get a lot of free running and is pretty good in recall. Noticibly they are happy  I am.
> 
> What I find difficult is training for speed like the super fast retrieves, the drivy heeling, the intensity for focus etc.


So is the only training you do when you are "out and about"? Do you train at a club? Why not?

There should be no difference in performance between a dog kept in the house or the kennels, it depends on the dog and your attitude towards it. Training is probably best done in the same field everytime whilst the dog is young, full attention on dog, intense, short session better than prolonging things. The dog must know that training field means 100% full attention and effort, then when he goes off, he can relax. Whilst on the field you reward for only its best efforts. Teaching little bits in your kitchen and out in the park is ok for a pet but not a schutzhund performer.

Some deprivation can be used to improve drive example skipping a meal, no walk before day of training. But I only do this on and off. I never deprive dog for long periods.


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## Esther Chai (Feb 18, 2009)

Thank you James Downey for your analogies about training in drive using deprivation as a form of manipulation. My dog certainly has too much of a good thing going.

As for James Deagle, your comment about the importance of the training field was something I neglected until I took my dog for the BH. I practiced a few sessions prior and realised only then that I was feeling more inadequate than the dog. My rewards were badly timed and I realised rather late that my insecurities can be passed on to the dog. Thank goodness she did well on the day. Not doing that again.

This forum is really informative and I find myself hooked on reading all your contributions. Thanks again.


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