# Why did you choose the sport you chose?



## Kristi Molina (Oct 1, 2012)

Just out of curiosity. Why did you pick, IPO or ring or PSA etc... What was it about that sport that you liked, that you didn't see in the other sports? 

Did you choose the sport based on your dog? Or dog based on your sport? 


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Kristi Molina said:


> Just out of curiosity. Why did you pick, IPO or ring or PSA etc... What was it about that sport that you liked, that you didn't see in the other sports?
> 
> Did you choose the sport based on your dog? Or dog based on your sport?
> 
> ...


Started with IPO b/c thats what the local club trained in and all I knew about. Now, a few years in, I realize my male is better suited for PSA, and my female IPO... however my female will probably move to PSA as well as soon as her 3 is on her, as I like the design & spirit of PSA more than IPO... probably still go to IPO for tracking stuff.


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

I wanted to do PSA as a friend of mine id a decoy and trainer for the sport. But my first dog with potential blew his ACL at 8 months old. (Due to owner stupidity and puppy fearlessness.) So after having the surgery i removed Luther from any impact sports. 
I would have loved to try PSA with my new dog, but i think IPO suits her better and i found a trainer that i really like and has worked with my breed before. Part of the it is the time, distance, money and part is what seems to work for my dog.
I also train in standard obedience, agility and rally. So i think the obedience of IPO fits better the sports i was to work in.
Maybe some day i'll have a PSA dog. Just John is going to have to move back south or i'm going to have to buy a Sensa plane.  ( so not happening either way)!


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## JOE SAMSON JR (Feb 24, 2009)

because it looked fun


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I liked the training methods and theory behind them better in IPO than I did in the ring sport clubs around me.


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## dewon fields (Apr 5, 2009)

I like US mondioring because its ran by a lot of beautiful single cougars!


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## Peter Cho (Apr 21, 2010)

Training director. Lance Collins. I did not even like Schutzhund but he showed me the FIRST day, Schutzhund is about power, real aggression, and absolute control. 
I was mostly into PP and PSA 
Extremely methodical and systematic. Nobody was doing work off on the side on their own. Everyone was on the same page. This impressed me. 
As Gunther Diegel said "make WAR with the helper!"

IPO (Sch), 3 phase sport you can never stop learning.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

dewon fields said:


> I like US mondioring because its ran by a lot of beautiful single cougars!


Best reason ever!


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

dewon fields said:


> I like US mondioring because its ran by a lot of beautiful single cougars!


LMFAO :lol:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I wanted to do something sensible in training with my Landseer and so I joined a club and took him through our "Begleithunde" (similar to Schuthund Swiss but without protection exercise).

Went through Swiss National Schutzhund trials with him - SchH 1 - fantastic - the dog defended me whilst walking through a forest, defended his object as a judge walked around him and tried to take it away but...

Schutzhund 2 - the dog guarded the object within his life but failed to chase after the decoy in the protection phase, i.e. when my handler is safe what is the use of chasing after a silly decoy!!

After the Landseer I bought a Briard and had vey good results with him.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Peter Cho said:


> Schutzhund is about power, real aggression, and absolute control.


How long ago was this? As a newcomer, I can say that is not the picture that was conveyed to me when I started


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

Hunter Allred said:


> How long ago was this? As a newcomer, I can say that is not the picture that was conveyed to me when I started


no kidding. It's not about any of that. How is tracking about real aggression or absolute control? 

The ring sports and PSA present a MUCH clearer picture of handler control. I think the 'pressure' presented in ring sports and PSA is much higher too. There is very little 'pressure' in IPO other than the long bite and the transport (turn and run), outside of that the helper is running/moving away from the dog or static. Every single bite in PSA is moving toward the dog (exception with surprise stuff and escape bite in the 2 man). Ring sports, the decoy is tasked with taking points from the dog. The dog is not given an opportunity in IPO to show "real aggression", in fact (oh man Im having flash backs from the thread a few months back) "real aggression" will get you DQ'ed in almost all dog biting sports. You say out..... the dog outs. end of story. no matter the sport.

it is "Extremely methodical and systematic" which makes it....... Extremely methodical and systematic and annoying. They're German. The lack of willingness for anyone to be "off to the side doing their own" is exactly whats wrong with IPO and why I moved on.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I am an IPO guy. And I do not disagree....well not totally. First, I think the sport does not determine who the dog is. That's done in the double helix of genetics. I think what a lot of people do not get. Is that IPO has gone through some phases that some other sports may have not yet gone through. Especially PSA. You watch videos of IPO from 15 years ago at the world level and you will notice that the dogs look wilder and more powerful. So there I do not disagree. But also you notice the criteria for scoring points was not on precision as much but on the dog. Sounds good, why did we stop doing that? well, some people were focusing on training. They had to get an edge somehow.And they strarted winning. So a shift happened..... And yes I agree as it stands right now. The guy with simply having the biggest bad ass is not going to win. A guy right now can walk onto a field and have a dog that does everything correct and how do I say this....beat the dog that is a monster but does not do everything correct. So correctness right now trumps power. I am not sure other sports have experienced this yet.....at least here in the states I do not think they have. But now comes the next shift....and it has started. As much shit is thrown at the positive crowd. They are evidence that people at all levels are seeking new and innovative ways to train...and because people in IPO are being forced to become better trainers....everyone is constantly getting better and better. It's amazing how much better the trainers have gotten in my short 10 years in IPO. This is setting the stage. because the trainers are getting better and better sooner or later, the training all around will get so good. that it will be the dog once again that sets the teams apart and not the training. 

I am not sure why people tend to talk down to people doing IPO
And I think more often than not, IPO has paved more of way for all protection spors than any other. When ever protection sports come under fire by AR groups and others...it's generally IPO that gets put under the gun. 

Vendors of dog gear I think probably are kept in buisness by the IPO community. Just cause of our sheer population.

That's another thing....the population. It has taken a long time to grow the following. I was at a 120 IPO national championship. No offense, but the dog that had to outscore 119 dogs to win, give em' props. That's a little tougher than beating 7. 

So sometimes, I think PSA and ring in America give off the arrogance of a cocky teenager. think they got it all figured out.... They are invincible.... When really....they are, where we were....20 years ago. PSA and RING if they keep growing, are going to evolve. They are going to attract pressure that will demand you change or lose your sport all together. And some of things that evolve or you have to change people will be critical of. And I know, you will rebel against such things, or it won't happen to you.... but that's what a teenager would say.


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Is PSA training akin to KNPV in Holland ?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Ted Summers said:


> no kidding. It's not about any of that. How is tracking about real aggression or absolute control?
> 
> The ring sports and PSA present a MUCH clearer picture of handler control. I think the 'pressure' presented in ring sports and PSA is much higher too. There is very little 'pressure' in IPO other than the long bite and the transport (turn and run), outside of that the helper is running/moving away from the dog or static. Every single bite in PSA is moving toward the dog (exception with surprise stuff and escape bite in the 2 man). Ring sports, the decoy is tasked with taking points from the dog. The dog is not given an opportunity in IPO to show "real aggression", in fact (oh man Im having flash backs from the thread a few months back) "real aggression" will get you DQ'ed in almost all dog biting sports. You say out..... the dog outs. end of story. no matter the sport.
> 
> it is "Extremely methodical and systematic" which makes it....... Extremely methodical and systematic and annoying. They're German. The lack of willingness for anyone to be "off to the side doing their own" is exactly whats wrong with IPO and why I moved on.


I think that your question about where is the aggression and control in tracking is very silly. IPO encompasses three phases. If you look at the tracking alone it's not IPO. What you are doing is like taking the engine out of a Mercedes then complaining that it's not as fast as a Kia. 

Also just because a dog outs fast does not mean that it's not aggressive. IME, the more aggression a dog has the easier it tends to be to out. It's bad training and conflict that causes out issues. 

I disagree with the rest of your post too, but you're entitled to to believe what you want and I ain't got time.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Just a quick reminder that WDF isn't about bashing anyone else's sport. 

Thanks!


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## Oscar Mora (Mar 31, 2010)

Ring bc IPO is boring to ME. I feel it takes a good dog and good training to compete at any high level. Ring is just a better fit for me =]


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## Kristi Molina (Oct 1, 2012)

Interesting responses! I had planned to do IPO but when I researched, compared to ring it seemed less realistic and I knew the tracking would bore me. Ring all around is more exciting to me. 


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## Paul Westall (Apr 27, 2012)

IPO mainly because of the lack of clubs or trainers in my area for the other sports. I get along well with the training style and personalities of my current IPO group. Mainly I just enjoy sport training with my dog-not a fanatic about any one in particular. I would like to try PSA, but the closest club is way too far for me to travel regularly to.


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## Alex Scott (Jun 16, 2013)

In Australia there are very limited options in regards to dog sport. There is only IPO available in the state where I reside and there is only one club.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Kristi 
are you still interested in responses to this :
......"Did you choose the sport based on your dog? Or dog based on your sport? " ???

so far i don't think anyone has answered it .. was looking forward to reading some

i would have expected to see most of the other reasons given why certain sports are preferred :
....glory, girls, challenge, something to do with your dog, chance to work with a great teacher, because it was the only sport in town, etc etc

as for me, i think you choose the sport based on your dog if you are starting out....once you already have a sport, the decision becomes obvious, so it probably depends on where you are in your dog life.

but people who get a dog with no idea what they want to do with it beforehand are probably handicapping themselves.

also, there have been many people come here saying they are looking at getting a working dog in the "future" and ask for advice on how to select a breeder and a breed, etc ... lots of advice is given .... but rarely do we ever get a follow up so it's hard to tell if they ever even got a dog 

i kook at it in the same way as getting a car ... you of course need to know what you will be using it for, not what you would LIKE to use it for, and cost is always a determining factor in the decision

how do you feel about your questions ?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Kristi Molina said:


> Interesting responses! I had planned to do IPO but when I researched, compared to ring it seemed less realistic and I knew the tracking would bore me. Ring all around is more exciting to me. http://www.petguide.com/mobile


So I gotta ask, Huh? :lol:

Kristi Molina *Ankle Biter*

*View User's Photo Gallery*
*Status: Junior Member*
*Training: Schutzhund*
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 27


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## Kristi Molina (Oct 1, 2012)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> So I gotta ask, Huh? :lol:
> 
> Kristi Molina *Ankle Biter*
> 
> ...


LOL I actually don't know how to change that! Poor rogue, she probably could have been a good schutzhund dog. 


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## Kristi Molina (Oct 1, 2012)

rick smith said:


> Kristi
> are you still interested in responses to this :
> ......"Did you choose the sport based on your dog? Or dog based on your sport? " ???
> 
> ...


Yes! I am interested in those answers. 

My first working line dog, which I have now, would have probably done really well in IPO. But after I got her I went a different route, and unfortunately she is not a ring dog. So she's mainly a pet, that I let bite decoys for fun with no real pressure or expectations. When I am ready, I will get a mal for ring. I can only have 3 dogs where I live. I have Rogue and my husband has a cane corso puppy. So that third slot is for my ring puppy. 

I 


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

rick smith said:


> Kristi
> are you still interested in responses to this :
> ......"Did you choose the sport based on your dog? Or dog based on your sport? " ???
> 
> ...


 I believe I answered... Started IPO and moving to PSA bc it suits the dog


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## Kristi Molina (Oct 1, 2012)

PSA looks like a lot of fun! 


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

I haven't chosen, I do IPO, Obedience, Agility, and just started Nosework 

Initially I bought a GSD and tried out everything I could that was within reasonable distance. I went to an IPO trial because my pup had IPO titled ancestors, thought it looked ok, but the people were weird and unfriendly and the TD said I had to leave my pup alone till he was 18 months and then go back and let him train the pup. Hmmmm....NO

Quite by chance we went to a park on a Friday night and met a club, they said my dog was OK and I just had to see if I could make it to SchH3. Then of course I wanted a better dog so I could do better and then it becomes a really long story!


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Neither. I chose the sport. I got a good working dog that should be able to do any of the bite sports. I like the type of dog IPO produces. I think IPO says more about the temperament of the dog than ring. I like the precision that isn't found in ring. I think people underestimate what tracking and obedience say about a dog. I just think it shows more of an overall picture of the dog. I also like the type of dog it can produce. Controlled, but very serious and very aggressive. To say that IPO has no pressure is like saying the earth is flat.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Oops. Posted twice.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

I like all dog sports as long as it involves bite work and OB, but my passion is PSA, it is a sport that allow civilian to really test your dog's nerve and handler ability to train the dog, I like the precision OB of Schutzhund, PSA looks for the same picture but not quite as strict because it has 10 times more distractions, in level 3 OB there are no routines and so you must prepare your dog for everything and always under control, they could send your dog in to a bite to get his drive up for the OB and then make you do OB under decoys distractions..., same as bite work, from hidden sleeve to muzzle work of level 3, all surprise in level 3, the challenge of the unknown scenarios and it required handler to make a correct decision is what I love about the sport.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> Neither. I chose the sport. I got a good working dog that should be able to do any of the bite sports. I like the type of dog IPO produces. I think IPO says more about the temperament of the dog than ring. I like the precision that isn't found in ring. I think people underestimate what tracking and obedience say about a dog. I just think it shows more of an overall picture of the dog. I also like the type of dog it can produce. Controlled, but very serious and very aggressive. To say that IPO has no pressure is like saying the earth is flat.


Yes I agree, if you have a good dog, you can do any sports.


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## drew sterner (Aug 26, 2011)

started off in sch because that is what was available and i had no clue what was out there. The more i grew and moved to different locations i was fortunate enough to be close to a club that does PSA, for me there is no looking back. PSA tests the dog's character at a much higher level than IPO. The pressure and distractions thrown at the dogs during trial isnt even close in comparison. I will say that IPO is a very valuable sport to have around, I wouldnt have gotten into dogs if it wasnt for IPO! It also gave me a great foundation for tracking.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Both me n my dogs like IPO and PSA. Trained my 1st dog to IPO3, tried PSA for a couple of months or so and really liked it. Currently re-training IPO with a different training philosophy and gaining valuable experience in learning to control a strong dog without using old school methods. At some point after achieving more goals in IPO will swing towards PSA again with a much bigger training tool kit. It's all fun and keeps me n the dogs sane


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

To answer the op's question. IPO kind of choose me. As did the Malinois. First, I bought my first Malinois from a pet shop in Hawaii. I went there for a shepherd. Never had a dog of my own, only family pets growing up, but they were really all my father's dogs. So my Malinois, was a confirmation line dog. I bought him cause he sure was pretty....till he started destroying my room. I had no idea about anything dog. not about crating, training...nothing. So when I had enough, I did what any self-respecting person would do with current technology. I google searched Malinois, San Diego. (I had moved there almost immmediatly after getting the dog). It came up with a bunch of links....I called some of them...emailed others. Only one was inviting and friendly. So, I went to training. It turned out to be an IPO club. I thought after seeing protection. There is no way I am doing this with my dog. These people were crazy....teaching their dogs to bite. But I was intrigued by the level of control they had. So, I kept coming, making small talk. and then someone asked me if I was going to join. I then politely expressed my concerns with what they were training. The man, who asked, then asked me if I'd like to see his dogs. He let about 4 Malinois out and one rott. We went for a walk, and I could not believe the social behavior of the dogs. they were outgoing, friendly and full of piss and vinegar. I thought this is wonderful. I could not believe how the dogs interacted with each other. and how loving and in tune with their they were. I wanted my dog to love me as his dogs loved him. Then I was hooked. All the things I was worried about were not washed away by someone trying to convince me. He showed me. And after that I commited to attending as much training as I could. I asked if I could take some bites. And they started to train me as a helper. My confirmation dog was not suited....he actually was not half bad, but he could not distinguish that the helper and the field was the only place to do Bark and holds he started doing them everywhere. And not cause he wanted a toy, but more so because he was worried about people....and he found aggression masked his fear. So we stopped with him. I waited, and looked for a while for a pup....but nothing I liked, the dogs were not like the dogs the man had taken me for a walk with. They were nervous, and not very social. Then that same man, announced he was breeding his female...whom I adored. and the male was a dog I had spent a lot time with. Me and his handler had become friends....I was all in at this point....I got a club, some help, and a breeding from two dogs whom I wanted a carbon copy of. And I then got Addie...who has turned out my all time best friend. I have never gotten along with anything in this world as much as I get along with her. She's an awesome dog, and a good worker. She gave me an awesome son, who's as much of joy to be around as she and an even better worker. So... I did not really choose, it was series of very strange events that were so perfect it would have been blasphemy to ignore. I believe I am suppose to be a Malinois owner. I mean really who gets a Malinois, from a pet shop...in Hawaii....and who stumbles upon training at a great IPO club, and who get a dog that they are so happy with that it's almost sickening to their spouse on how much they love the dog. This guy did.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

James Downey said:


> To answer the op's question. IPO kind of choose me. As did the Malinois. First, I bought my first Malinois from a pet shop in Hawaii. I went there for a shepherd. Never had a dog of my own, only family pets growing up, but they were really all my father's dogs. So my Malinois, was a confirmation line dog. I bought him cause he sure was pretty....till he started destroying my room. I had no idea about anything dog. not about crating, training...nothing. So when I had enough, I did what any self-respecting person would do with current technology. I google searched Malinois, San Diego. (I had moved there almost immmediatly after getting the dog). It came up with a bunch of links....I called some of them...emailed others. Only one was inviting and friendly. So, I went to training. It turned out to be an IPO club. I thought after seeing protection. There is no way I am doing this with my dog. These people were crazy....teaching their dogs to bite. But I was intrigued by the level of control they had. So, I kept coming, making small talk. and then someone asked me if I was going to join. I then politely expressed my concerns with what they were training. The man, who asked, then asked me if I'd like to see his dogs. He let about 4 Malinois out and one rott. We went for a walk, and I could not believe the social behavior of the dogs. they were outgoing, friendly and full of piss and vinegar. I thought this is wonderful. I could not believe how the dogs interacted with each other. and how loving and in tune with their they were. I wanted my dog to love me as his dogs loved him. Then I was hooked. All the things I was worried about were not washed away by someone trying to convince me. He showed me. And after that I commited to attending as much training as I could. I asked if I could take some bites. And they started to train me as a helper. My confirmation dog was not suited....he actually was not half bad, but he could not distinguish that the helper and the field was the only place to do Bark and holds he started doing them everywhere. And not cause he wanted a toy, but more so because he was worried about people....and he found aggression masked his fear. So we stopped with him. I waited, and looked for a while for a pup....but nothing I liked, the dogs were not like the dogs the man had taken me for a walk with. They were nervous, and not very social. Then that same man, announced he was breeding his female...whom I adored. and the male was a dog I had spent a lot time with. Me and his handler had become friends....I was all in at this point....I got a club, some help, and a breeding from two dogs whom I wanted a carbon copy of. And I then got Addie...who has turned out my all time best friend. I have never gotten along with anything in this world as much as I get along with her. She's an awesome dog, and a good worker. She gave me an awesome son, who's as much of joy to be around as she and an even better worker. So... I did not really choose, it was series of very strange events that were so perfect it would have been blasphemy to ignore. I believe I am suppose to be a Malinois owner. I mean really who gets a Malinois, from a pet shop...in Hawaii....and who stumbles upon training at a great IPO club, and who get a dog that they are so happy with that it's almost sickening to their spouse on how much they love the dog. This guy did.


Now that's what I'm talking about. So romantic. Even moreso, cuz its actually true. Good for you James.:-D


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Katie Finlay said:


> Neither. I chose the sport. I got a good working dog that should be able to do any of the bite sports. I like the type of dog IPO produces. I think IPO says more about the temperament of the dog than ring. I like the precision that isn't found in ring. I think people underestimate what tracking and obedience say about a dog. I just think it shows more of an overall picture of the dog. I also like the type of dog it can produce. Controlled, but very serious and very aggressive. To say that IPO has no pressure is like saying the earth is flat.


In practice many don't put much pressure on the dogs.. The sport, if conducted and judged correctly, is a very well constructed assessment & picture of a dog. not a problem of the sport itself.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Hunter Allred said:


> In practice many don't put much pressure on the dogs.. The sport, if conducted and judged correctly, is a very well constructed assessment & picture of a dog. not a problem of the sport itself.


Yeah. I think people are so used to training without the pressure. But all three phases include pressure. The highest levels of the sport are practically made out of pressure.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Katie Finlay said:


> Yeah. I think people are so used to training without the pressure. But all three phases include pressure. The highest levels of the sport are practically made out of pressure.


Probably also born out of a desire for greater adoption and public acceptance as well


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Hunter Allred said:


> Probably also born out of a desire for greater adoption and public acceptance as well


And that's another thing I love about the sport. A guy and his rescue dog can get their IPO 1. Will they V? No. They probably won't even SG. But they'll have fun and they'll pass.

But at the same time you can go to worlds and nationals and see the best of the best with really serious dogs and training.

I think people get stuck looking at the club trial and not the big picture of what IPO is and the type of dog it can produce.


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