# Caucasian Ovcharka Bitework



## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN06J_VjPD4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhPTS3_OLz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYDsawtTIA0


I'm a newb so I can't say much for the training, but I will say that's one big ol' nasty sack of fur that I'd never want to tangle with. 

Anyone have an opinion of the training? How about the breed in general? Anyone know who, if anyone, is using these dogs for PPD here in the U.S.?


Andy.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Neat dogs. Keep your insurance premiums up to date.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

These dogs are a huge liability. And in case anyone wonders, they are not supposed to stay on a bite, but move around like that.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> These dogs are a huge liability. And in case anyone wonders, they are not supposed to stay on a bite, but move around like that.


Must make life interesting for the decoy.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Liability? Are you speaking in terms of inherent instability within the breed, or along the lines of being too much dog for most people?


Andy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

They are territorial, and not bred for a forgiving of a trespass temp. If you get bit in Russia, there is no suing. I know a Russian who went and got one. The dog is huge, and he cannot control it. It was unbelievably territorial at 7 months, and large enough to back it up. I know BS in a dog when I see it, and there wasn't any there. If I had gotten close enough I would have gotten bit. I decided not to deal with this dog, or this guy. Good times!!!!


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff, just wondering...that bite behavior they do show...it's just all focused on driving off, right? All defense, but more specifically, driving threats off instead of killing them?


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2006)

I've seen sled dogs bite better than this, it's a joke right ??


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> They are territorial, and not bred for a forgiving of a trespass temp. If you get bit in Russia, there is no suing. I know a Russian who went and got one. The dog is huge, and he cannot control it. It was unbelievably territorial at 7 months, and large enough to back it up. I know BS in a dog when I see it, and there wasn't any there. If I had gotten close enough I would have gotten bit. I decided not to deal with this dog, or this guy. Good times!!!!


I will never forget that Designer Dogs show on National Geographic with that 125 lb. (extremely paranoid) guy with the 200 lb. CO. He kept that thing in a fenced _room_ inside his house, that dog dragged him around where ever it wanted to go. Absolutely no control over that thing. I would kill that dog if I were a neighbor. It was frightening as hell to think about something like that being around my kids.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

These dogs are raised completely different than what we do here. The Russian system is completely different. They do not value a solid bite like we do.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Jeff, is that a good or bad thing?


Andy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think that with a dog that size it really doesn't matter.   

Personally, with the way our laws get excedingly rediculous, we cannot afford to train a dog like this. I also don't care about the full calm grip crap we are always reading about to begin with. Sissy dogs in my opinion :lol: :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Again, I always thought that bite behavior was as much instinct as anything else. I thought their deal was to drive off stuff, not pin it down and kill it.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Not sure I've ever said this before, Jeff, but I like the way you think!  

Thanks for the input.


Andy.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Personally, with the way our laws get excedingly rediculous, we cannot afford to train a dog like this. I also don't care about the full calm grip crap we are always reading about to begin with. Sissy dogs in my opinion :lol: :lol:


Huh?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

OK Woody, I will type slowly cause I know you don't read that fast.

The dog in the video bites and rebites in different areas for apparently no reason whatsoever. That would not be so good to have the Po-Po show up and the perp has like 30 bites all over his body.

And, no, I don't care about a full calm grip. I figured that BS out years ago. If they have it, fine, if they don't, fine. I am looking for other things.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I always enjoy watching the off breeds. Seems to be a rather shallow bite, & maybe because of that, comes off the sleeve rather fast, but I'm guessing it wouldn't matter in a real life situation with these big scarey dogs.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

No, my point was is that the dog resetting like that was not, to my understanding, trained behavior. It was instinctual.

Then why the hell did you have me petting Buko when he was on me? :lol:

Edited to say I'm just kidding. About Buko. Not about the Ovcharka bites.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Petting a dog that does MR is a good thing. Petting a crazy Russian trained C.O. is probably not a good idea. Ever see their bitesuits???


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

(quote0I always thought that bite behavior was as much instinct as anything else. I thought their deal was to drive off stuff, not pin it down and kill it.{quote}


Make no mistake about it,a dog biting this way can kill.They will stay longer on the bite as the fight goes on.

If you come across one of these dogs you better have your .45 :wink: .


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I liked that dog. Imagine takin muzzle hits with that dog, :twisted: :twisted:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

It's interesting to note that the decoy NEVER did anything AGAINST the dog. If he had, perhaps the dog would have been a lot more serious, less shallow, much harder to get off the decoy, etc.
Also, the video title is "Test". Perhaps that dog had had no previous training - at all - and the owner just wanted to see if the dog would actually bite a stranger.
Perhaps, perhaps.
If I lived where it was very cold; if I didn't mind the huge size, the shedding; if I wanted to experiment with different breeds; if I needed to keep my property secure without using other layers of protection; if...if...if...
Cool dog.


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

I would try a dog like that if it had as good or preferrably better control and biddability as the GSD.If If If! :lol:


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

to paraphrase Andy - "big scary sack of fur..." sums it up pretty nicely!


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## Simon Mellick (Oct 31, 2006)

Once you get over the fact that most people that want a PPD don't need a dog that can search buildings and track suspects, I guess there's something to be said for a dog that's that comfortable working in defense. 

But coming from someone that has a dog with a similar temprement to a typical Ovcharka (although a completely different breed, I've got a totally un-typical bouvier), that amount of territoriality is a pain in the a$$. I can only imagine what it would be like if he was 150+ pounds.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Andres, point well taken, that makes sense to me.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i personally thought that dog was plumb scary--a GSD in st. bernard clothing. noticed that the "fence" he was working within looked like solid metal to about 5'--the least i'd want with a dog like that :| 

i did see an ad in our regional "for sale" paper today for pups for $150. seriously. if anyone's interested, i only charge a 10% finder's fee :lol: it was weird seeing that ad just days after seeing that vid, AND seeing the ad in the wilds of NE....

do you suppose a prong would work on one? .....


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

There is always the question of whether or not a dog of that size & bulk would be agile enough to be very good at protection work, much like the problem with the massive rotties. I have no feelings either way, just bringing up an issue I have heard from many prof trainers, one who trained & handled a rottie which won the rottie working dog world championships.


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## Simon Mellick (Oct 31, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> There is always the question of whether or not a dog of that size & bulk would be agile enough to be very good at protection work...


For me, there are valid reasons for wanting a smaller dog as a PPD. But as long as you're not in fear for your life in the middle of agility class, I don't see how size would keep a dog from excelling at protection.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

The dog is seemingly agile, fast for its size and had obviously been trained for sleeve bite though it reverts to legbites (though uncommitted) when decoy is on the run. Can't say the dog is biting with his canines as a predator should, which will make it more dangerous. It will bite to kill, the reality in predators. It still got the moves that allows it to deliver its blow while avoiding "hooves and horns", so to speak. Like Andres said, just a little resistance from the decoy and that dog will be a decoy's nightmare. Will put that dog up againts multiple attackers.

Nice vids Andy.

Just my opinion....


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

My two eldest kids are on the left; the decoy's son on the right. This dog was FABULOUS.









I trained this dog 12 years ago. He was very heavy (110 "fat-free" lbs.) , athletic and committed. The TOP picture is of an esquive. This dog would pull down, tire out the decoy, and rebite "a more advantageous" position. It was VERY back-breaking and dangerous to the decoy. After a 2 minute bite, the decoy was either begging for the dog to be "outed", or looking for something to hold on to.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2006)

What's with the Michelin man suit ??


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I remember hearing one time someone describing them kind of like Filas in serious fur.  I too remember that National Geographic Channel's show where they were featured. I'll pass!


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