# Super aggressive dog



## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

As some of may know I have a female GSD. She's very good training wise and very smart. I have had to take a break from training in the last couple of months because I go to all the Bama games and we train on Saturdays. 

Since then I have a noticed something in her temperament that I'm not so sure about. The other day a friend of mine pulled in the yard, me and Lucy were outside on the porch putting in a ceiling fan, she stands up when he pulled in and starts growling. I think WTF ya know cause she knows this person. He hopped out but was standing between the door and the seat and he hollered something at me(he's loud anyway). When he done that Lucy went off the porch, jumped on top of the hood of his truck, and launched at him. He ducked back into the truck and everything was fine but I beat her ass. It was a very scary situation and she's not even a year yet. 

I have 2 questions though 1. Did I do the right thing by punishing her and kenneling her? 2. How can I make her not be like that to people that pull up in my yard that are ok? I don't want to make her think that she can't protect the home or that that is a bad thing. TIA


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

These things are hard calls without being there to have seen this exact situation. The things that come to my mind are a super-confident pup (jumping on top of a truck hood??) that's growing up and feeling her oats that morning, the other thing is a nerve bag aggressing for some perceived (unreal) threat. But I have to say, jumping on the truck hood? Can't say I've ever seen a nervebag jump on top of a car. Someone else may have someone better to say about it.

How old is she exactly? Has she had a heat yet? Has she ever growled at anything before?

Either way I'd be kicking the ass of anyone that threatened a friend like that. :wink: Next time shut it down at the growl.


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Jackie Lockard said:


> These things are hard calls without being there to have seen this exact situation. The things that come to my mind are a super-confident pup (jumping on top of a truck hood??) that's growing up and feeling her oats that morning, the other thing is a nerve bag aggressing for some perceived (unreal) threat. But I have to say, jumping on the truck hood? Can't say I've ever seen a nervebag jump on top of a car. Someone else may have someone better to say about it.
> 
> How old is she exactly? Has she had a heat yet? Has she ever growled at anything before?
> 
> Either way I'd be kicking the ass of anyone that threatened a friend like that. :wink: Next time shut it down at the growl.


 
The truck was facing us. Like he would hit us head on if he kept coming. It happened so fast after she growled though I didn't have time get a hold of her. She didn't go around the truck though to get to him she jumped straight on to the hood and went right over his head as he ducked. It didn't seem like she was nervous this was more a main line type of situation. 

She is 10 months the first of Nov. She has not had a heat and yes she growls at all types of things. Sometimes at night she'll start looking in the woods and start growling. 

Like I said though I beat her ass and put her up. She usually ruins loose when I'm at home so she knew she done something wrong. At the same time I don't want her to be overly friendly to everybody but I certainly don't want her lunging at peoples face. Thank you BTW


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## Tanya Beka (Aug 12, 2008)

Train more often....sounds like your dog doesn't like taking breaks and is finding her own job to do...


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

We do a lot of tugging. She loves that. How do you post videos? After her first time on a sleeve I noticed a change in her demeanor. It was maybe a month ago.

lets see if this works. This was her first time on a sleeve with a helper


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

this should work you gotta click on the picture


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

imo the tugging and sleeve work don't/won't have a damn thing to do with the car/driver "attack" - before or after  .....set it up to happen again and you will see if you beat her ass hard enuff the first time ... i'll put my money that she repeats it again

10 months old ?? where is the super aggressive part ??


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Thomas Jones said:


> The truck was facing us. Like he would hit us head on if he kept coming. It happened so fast after she growled though I didn't have time get a hold of her. She didn't go around the truck though to get to him she jumped straight on to the hood and went right over his head as he ducked. It didn't seem like she was nervous this was more a main line type of situation.
> 
> She is 10 months the first of Nov. She has not had a heat and yes *she growls at all types of things*. Sometimes at night she'll start looking in the woods and start growling.
> 
> Like I said though I beat her ass and put her up. *She usually ruins loose when I'm at home* so she knew she done something wrong. At the same time I don't want her to be overly friendly to everybody but I certainly don't want her lunging at peoples face. Thank you BTW


Way too much freedom and she is taking advantage of it. More training, more consistency, NO more getting away with dumb shit like growling at nothing. That's YOUR job not hers. She has no business taking control of any situation. I'll also agree on probably finding her own job to do. Wear her brain and legs out every day. She's at a horrible age. Just stick with it. Did she growl at lots of things four months ago?

Edit: I agree with everything Rick said too.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

{or} Find the guy Mike Suttle was talking about, that wanted a dog that wasn't so social, and sell him your dog for a bunch of dollars. Then get a dog that has some obedience and control. Teaching a dog to be so aggressive without having any control is like giving a loaded gun to someone before teaching them how to shoot safely.

DFrost


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Just a thought, but if you are teaching her to run down the field and bite, she just gave it a good shot. Nice teaching.

Another thought. You may want to restrain her in a fence or on a leash til she's finished up, learns OB and who to bite. Good luck.


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Dave Colborn said:


> Just a thought, but if you are teaching her to run down the field and bite, she just gave it a good shot. Nice teaching.
> 
> Another thought. You may want to restrain her in a fence or on a leash til she's finished up, learns OB and who to bite. Good luck.


Thanks. I am gonna have to start keeping her penned up. I live in the country down a long driveway so I don't ahve to worry about cars running over her so she runs loose unless I leave and can't take her with me then I put her in the kennel. She hasn't had any long bite training though. Strictly tug and that video is her first time ever on the sleeve


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

David Frost said:


> {or} Find the guy Mike Suttle was talking about, that wanted a dog that wasn't so social, and sell him your dog for a bunch of dollars. Then get a dog that has some obedience and control. Teaching a dog to be so aggressive without having any control is like giving a loaded gun to someone before teaching them how to shoot safely.
> 
> DFrost


That made me chuckle. You're right though and I'm gonna just have to amp up the obedience. She is truly a great dog around people she knows and she's really good around women adn children. Never shown any aggression toward either and really loves women but a strange man just gets her all wound up. Just gonna start keeping her kenneled more, lay off the tug, and start working strictly on obedience. I have always been able to call a dog, some I may have to holler real loud but they would turn around and come back. This one once her hair stands up on the back of her neck and she zeroes in on whatever she is gone.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'd just like to say that "she knows him" doesn't enter a dog's head when it's protecting its property. It's the worst thing actually you could rely on.

If she is a very protective dog, there is only one thing to do - ensure she's not free, even when you're around (until her recall is 99%).

i would keep on tugging or whatever you are doing with her - this has absolutely no influence on her protective qualities.

Just ensure she can't do what she did!! Success bring success and once she's cottoned on to the fact that she is the "protector", she'll expand on it.

I honestly think that such a trait is positive but has to be controlled. How many on here keep on saying your dog won't do this!!

A dog like this, kept under control, obedience 99%, and you've got a good dog.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Agreed to the obedience part. For my dogs, it's a "down" or "place" or "enough" at the growl, and a really solid recall for the charging with full intent to bite. Happened to me twice, both times recall worked. 2 GSD's charged somebody, recalled, had e-collars to reinforce recall. My mal had no leash/collar at all when he charged, but he was 3 yrs old and had OB thoroughly in place, and it was a beautiful thing seeing him spin on a dime and come back.

Both situations wouldn't have happened if I was more attentive to my surroundings...

For your type of situation, my reaction would be recall, then if the dog blew me off hopefully I'd have presence of mind to reinforce it in a teaching manner when I caught her - Correct all the way back to where we were while repeating the recall, thein praise and forget it. And in the future manage the dog better until I get enough training and can shut her off.

I don't think beating her ass and caging her will make her think about "what she did wrong" dogs are just not that smart to put it together.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Anna Kasho said:


> I don't think beating her ass and caging her will make her think about "what she did wrong" dogs are just not that smart to put it together.


I put my dog into a crate every time we finish obedience. Whether or not he's "thinking about" what we just did, the next time he comes out he usually preforms the new task better the first time than we ended the training session at.

Personally the corrections would be for charging a friend like that, and I hope my dog is smart enough to figure out that he's getting the hell corrected out of him for an action he's in the middle of doing or just stopped doing a second earlier or I've been yelling at him for the entire way I'm walking over to him. I can't speak for Tom's dog's intelligence.

It didn't sound like this was an event his friend told him about fifteen minutes later and then the dog got her ass kicked after everything was over.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> It didn't sound like this was an event his friend told him about fifteen minutes later and *then the dog got her ass kicked after everything was over*.


Oh no he didn't......that would be retarded...


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Thomas bring me that dog and let me have it for about a week. Then come pick it up. Problem solved!! Its not that far to drive lol.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Oh no he didn't......that would be retarded...


sooper retarted


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Joby Becker said:


> Oh no he didn't......that would be retarded...


She knew what was going on. The whole event took place over about 20 seconds. After she missed him the first time when she turned around I was down the ladder and on her. She knew what she was being punished for. I'm confident in that.


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## Chris Jones II (Mar 20, 2011)

beating his ass does nothing to help. he is already a bit fearful. from your video your dog is not very into the bitework and is lacking confidence and goes into defense really easy. he's not a total nervebag but he's got issues and these are the hardest to let go because sometimes they seem ok but lookin at the dog you see theres something not right. you might have caused it but prob not. luck of the dice kinda shit. notice how he lets go of the sleeve after his lackluster barking and lunging he is barely touched with the stick and then his energy drops a little before he is rewarded with a second bite? 1) That's not something you want to see no matter if the decoy miread the dog or your dog is a pos. 2) he was rewarded for that right away. bad decoying. Decoy went too far too fast and probably anything more than tug and fetch with this dog is going too far too fast at this point. was he even touched or did the decoy just pretend to touch him? if you want to build up this kind of dog then thats your thing but you should probably not laugh at the person who said you should sell the dog to someone who wants a junkyard type of dog and get a dog more suited to what you wanna do.


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Chris Jones II said:


> beating his ass does nothing to help. he is already a bit fearful. from your video your dog is not very into the bitework and is lacking confidence and goes into defense really easy. he's not a total nervebag but he's got issues and these are the hardest to let go because sometimes they seem ok but lookin at the dog you see theres something not right. you might have caused it but prob not. luck of the dice kinda shit. notice how he lets go of the sleeve after his lackluster barking and lunging he is barely touched with the stick and then his energy drops a little before he is rewarded with a second bite? 1) That's not something you want to see no matter if the decoy miread the dog or your dog is a pos. 2) he was rewarded for that right away. bad decoying. Decoy went too far too fast and probably anything more than tug and fetch with this dog is going too far too fast at this point. was he even touched or did the decoy just pretend to touch him? if you want to build up this kind of dog then thats your thing but you should probably not laugh at the person who said you should sell the dog to someone who wants a junkyard type of dog and get a dog more suited to what you wanna do.


 
Thanks for critiquing that for me. I'm kind of in a pickle with decoys because people with the experience to do it correctly are so far away(3+ hours). I don't think by her actions that she's nervy but I'm sure I'm wrong. Again thank you though for your insight. 

Also I was joking with David I had already read the post he was referring too. I personally think she will be fine onceI get a good handle on her with OB but I could certainly be wrong and it would not be the first time and certainly wont be the last. 

Again though thank you. Most people that kind of critiquing would piss them off but I would rather somebody shoot me straight even if its not what I want to hear. 

I will get back on tonight and check back in. Thank you all for your insight and brian I will be in LA in a week. PM your info to me and we can see if something can be worked out. I would love to meet you and talk with you and try to learn some things.


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

Once in awhile I allow myself to get caught up in something like this, never usually a good idea.

You asked two questions, I have a series of simple answers.

You are attempting through training to modify a certain behavior to meet a set criteria. In this particular scenario you have been training a young female GSD in the foundational aspects of bite work. I have watched the video and she is not a high drive dominant bitch, she is a average working line GSD bitch that obviously has some nerve and drive issues displayed by both the video and your own description of her. You have been working on creating a female GSD that can fill the role of a companion / personal protection type animal if I am correct in my assumption.

All of that being said, here is how I see your actions taking you steps backwards that will take hundreds of correct repetitions to fix if it is truly possible to remove from her mentality at all. Let me start by saying that it your responsibility as her owner / handler / trainer to make sure that all of her exposures are positive and conductive to learning by establishing parameters for training that meet your criteria. Learning is a constant never ending evaluation that revolves around all aspects of her daily life that should be monitored and controlled by you. 

In the scenario that you described above I can find no fault in Lucy, she did as any reasonable person would expect given her genetic potential (you selecting a working line GSD), her foundational bite training (teaching her to act with aggression) her obedience training (obviously lacking a solid recall or stay command) and the introduction of an unexpected loud potentially aggressive individual into her territory (your friend). 

Now lets look at your actions, you had a not fully trained protection dog loose with no physical or verbal barriers in-between her and any potential distracter or aggressor. The dog reacts as she should given her prior experiences and you beat her ass for it. (Which will create conflict in any potential future desired aggression from your canine, which may result in inaction caused directly by you) The fault is not at all hers, it is yours, and you let your own lack of knowledge and panic result in causing a massive amount of confusion and handler conflict effect your companion negatively. There was no immediate danger, your friend was safe within his vehicle, I would have used this scenario as a chance to enhance my training. Lets say we walk over calmly and praise our canine, then walk her back to her kennel and put her away. The kennel should never be used as a punishment, it should be a safe secure place your companion sees as a Great place to be. Then I would talk with my friend and ask him if he would repeat that scenario in a few weeks with me once I had the chance to work on a solid stay command. I would over the next few weeks start teaching a stay command and increase my level distracters until I had a reasonable expectation of success then I would rerun that scenario with a long line as a safety precaution and make sure that I marked and praised her behavior correctly when she was successful or repeat the process until it was. I would do this all again for a recall as well once the stay was reliable. I would also add some physical barriers as soon as financially possible and keep her on some sort of line until that was in place. 

The responsibility of owning the type of dog you have relies directly on you, your actions where stupid and I hope that you can understand why. This is just my take though….


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