# Where Should a PPD Bite?



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Leg? Wrist? Armpit? Where? And why? 

I've read many of people critical of dogs who bite on the wrist. Yea, I know, too much sleeve work, right? I don't know friends. I've taken some bites on the wrist and after taking some of those bites I was convinced that had I NOT been wearing the sleeve I would have had a broken wrist. And considering that we use our hands to fight I think damaging and perhaps disabling a hand is a good thing. But I'm not saying it's the best place to bite. What do you think? :?:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I think GETTING the wrist isn't a bad thing, but I think TARGETING the wrist is. If the dog is targeting a wrist, it's more likely to miss. It's a small target at the end of a long maneuverable limb, whereas targeting the chest will knock the guy flat to the ground as well as providing more room for dog targeting error.

Not saying chest is the best place, but it's an example of a more accessible bite target.


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Anywhere the dog wants too!  :wink: 

Greg


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> Anywhere the dog wants too!  :wink:
> 
> Greg


that is the realistic answer. to me, spending a lot of time on "targeting" is just not realistic. the real bites my dogs have had, none of them have been the "primary targeting area". situations where real bites occur are fluid and don't lend themselves to the "targeting training" that a lot of people put so much stock in. teach your dog to bite whatever target is presented and you won't be disappointed. a good dog will bite what is there.

my current dog's first (and only) bite was a leg bite and we had spent VERY little time developing leg bites. it's what was there and he bit it.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Well said Tim, I would definately agree with that.... real life never works out the way training does I'm sure.

But for arguments sake... I wouldn't teach a dog to target a quickly maneuverable body part... but if the dog happened to catch someones wrist because that's what was available then great, it'll hurt like hell LOL.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I would say what ever is moving the least, like the crotch, or stomach. The wrist, well it does hurt if they get the crunchy on ya!


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The wrist, well it does hurt if they get the crunchy on ya!


My first bite from a dog was on a puppy sleeve with an adult GSD who has a HARD bite... I didn't hold the sleeve right or something, being my first bite n all, n got nailed on the wrist.... it hurt LOL..., I think if there was no sleeve at all I may have broken something. I appreciate a dog bite alot more today than I did the day before that bite. Everyone starting bitework with their dog should at least once in their life take a bite on the wrist from a hard biting dog :lol:


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

One of my young dogs will flank you and bite you in the a..ummm back of the leg  .Someone said it was a "lawsuit bite"  .He will do this whether you are wearing a sleeve or not.Its very hard to defend against and most people dont like it but i love it. :lol: :lol: :lol: 


Greg


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Some dogs can be very confusing. Once a decoy offered an arm for a bite, dog bit his crotch, did predatory headshake then pulled hard. When tried to take him off the crotch, the dog went down the leg. When the decoy bent, it took the chest. All in a wink of an eye. Better not move... 

Fun but awesome to watch is a dog defending itself againts 3 whacking, punching and kicking decoys. It would take the first, not allowing itself to get hit. When the second gets in from one side, it would flank on the other side while biting the first, effectively blocking the second. When a third comes in, it would flank a bit, disengage the first, and engage the third. Those are instinctual defensive moves brought out in training. 

Many other scenarios that would show dog's cunning and speed.

In a recent live encounter inside a restaurant full of cutomers, the dog (a known legbiter) took the arm of one of the three assailants nearest to a target family member, revealing a knife. The knife flew off the hand and dropped to the floor and a companion was picking the knife when the dog got him in the chest. A third companion tried to help (some witnesses say he was picking a chair probably to slam the dog with) but the dog got him in the calf first. The first guy tired to run away and the dog gave chase and peppered him. He took the most damage. All 3 were neutralized in seconds. Even with the commotion, no other prople inside the restaurant was hurt. 

Best regards...


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Cant get a more accurate test than that!  

I have a dog that will do everything he can to avoid the sleeve and get to the real flesh.Some dogs will learn where the weaker areas of the suit are too.It makes it hard to find decoys though. :lol: 

Greg


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> Cant get a more accurate test than that!
> 
> I have a dog that will do everything he can to avoid the sleeve and get to the real flesh.Some dogs will learn where the weaker areas of the suit are too.It makes it hard to find decoys though. :lol:
> 
> Greg


Do you import them, after a while, like mail-order brides?

What ARE the weaker areas of the suit, just out of curiosity? Where the joints are?


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Greg Long said:
> 
> 
> > Cant get a more accurate test than that!
> ...


Nope..people just give em to me.They show up on my doorstep cause nobody else can take it.  :wink: 

Usually where there is less padding so it varies depending on the brand.The back is pretty light on padding in some.

Greg


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

OK, not for nothing, but where do you find a decoy that allows a dog to do this often enough to become a habit??? Dumbazzes are us???? LOL


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> OK, not for nothing, but where do you find a decoy that allows a dog to do this often enough to become a habit??? Dumbazzes are us???? LOL


Yep!Sometimes I think I need to look for a handler rather than a decoy for my dogs.They only come out once.  :x :x 


Greg


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Greg, just be careful when the dog starts creeping inside the upper body bitesuit, or on the open portion on where the hand should be. Dogs have tendency to pull, then recoil underneath the upper bitesuit. Very dangerous.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Thats when you bash their snoots with the end of the clatter stick and knee them out of there. 

One of the things I miss about Sch is the whip. Really easy to keep handlers in line when their dog is getting out of control. One good whip in the face takes all of the "Oh cool, looks like my dog is trying to bite "for real", I wonder what he will do???

When it should be, "Oh crap, he is gonna hurt my decoy!" I haven't had to throw my clatter stick at anyone, but I have came close, and everyone of them are X Sch people.   :lol: :lol: It pains me sometimes to see the coolest dogs in these people's hands. Also makes you not run their dog, 'cause it isn't fair to him.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Oh yes, hit them with what you've got. They're suppose to realize that they can get hurt to learn to counter. Make them learn to hit high or low, work even harder for their bites everytime. Make them come back to you with vengeance. Make that decoy pre-occupied and very worried about his own safety. Gives every freaking chance to the handler to do what he needs to do.

It's all a different mindset.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

We train for all parts of the body. A wrestler never uses just their arms, a boxer never just punches w/o blocking, and a PPD should be shown all targets on the decoy but the face/head. I have taken a live bite before on the wrist and I can tell you it hurt like hell. The pain was soooo bad and missed major things. I like thin skin targets as they bleed well. That is a mental thing that the bad guy must see...OMG I'm bleeding to death. The back bite is great for folks running from justice. Last week a decoy trainee got bite in the rear on the bite suit, it was amazing just how fast he ran and went "turtle." :roll:


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

As long as my dog does his job in protecting me, I don't care were he bites! The bad guy might care!


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## Chris Masters (Nov 20, 2008)

The most effective and the best area to work on is the human neck. But breeds differ and dogs differ individualy. Some dogs will bit the nearest part of the body and some dog will go for a predefined target. IMO combination of both can be deadly. For eg: Bite the nearest parts and some how reach the throat, that is for sure an attempt to kill and by god it will behead the victim.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Chris Masters said:


> The most effective and the best area to work on is the human neck. But breeds differ and dogs differ individualy. Some dogs will bit the nearest part of the body and some dog will go for a predefined target. IMO combination of both can be deadly. For eg: Bite the nearest parts and some how reach the throat, that is for sure an attempt to kill and by god it will behead the victim.


Nice...worth reading! NEXT!!!


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## Hank Springer (Nov 17, 2008)

I have to agree with Mr. Long and condition my dog to bite whatever is convenient. I start my dog with leg bites and move him to the arm. From the arm we move to the center of the back. From there we go to the shoulder and neck area. We want that dog to attack whatever he can reach and not habitually target and one spot. Arm biters and leg biters are not nearly as effective as a free biter.
It's about impossible to defend against a large powerful dog that bites all over the body. I've seen it a couple of times in the real world. 
The targeted subject is at the mercy of the dog handler.
It sounds like Mr. Reanto is working with a good dog.


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