# Visitors



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

With all the BSL and animal activist craziness going on lately how do your clubs and training groups handle visitor requests? Do you have a standard set of questions you ask visitors before you allow them out? We have had an increase in requests to visit and join the club lately and want to promote the sport of Schutzhund. We don't want to turn off interested parties but we also don't want some kook showing up at the training field.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Terry this is a great question you have presented. It's odd but we have an open door policy and our training area is open for public inspection from themain road. The DELMARVA WORKING DOG GROUP isn't a Schutzhund club or other dog sport club. We are a training group of working dog owners, whose main interest is in K-9 personal protection, with one working police dog, PPD and PSD.

Our biggest "selling point" is that our training area faces the main road, within feet of it. Many times we get folks who stop and stop by to ask training questions; everything from FuFu training to PPD stuff. Our "open style" helps to remove any image of backyard trainers or the beat them up style of training. Sometimes folks will ask, "Don't you have to kick them to make them mean enough to protect you?" Sure, that works for me, beat me up and then tell me how much you love me!

The BSL is a very tough call in our area. The City of Dover, Delaware attempted to pass squirrel based laws that targeted blood-letting breeds, one of which was the Rottweiler or any mix. The unique thing is, our group has several Rotties and all are not crazy. The view that German Shepherds are evil can also be shot down when you look at the dogs that train here. There is a lot of one instruction with each member training for their need or interest. We showcase K-9 obedience control, control in a distracted down (gunfire, yard equipment, yelling, and other things), tracking down the main road, even a herding lesson or two. The owners/handlers sell the concept of K-9 education and responsible training measures.

When guests are here, we tell them to ask any question, to any member, and on any K-9 topic; the thing is that we "protect" nothing. The freedom to ask and see is one of our selling points to help promote a "family-friendly" group. Sure there are training differences and the rare disput of technique. But backbiting and a lack of wanting to help others isn't here. Guests see that and the good natured ribbings that take place. Hate to say you can feel the LOVE, but it is very stress free. Again, guests can see everything, ask questions about the type of dogs we have, ask breed specific questions, and get free information on owner fixes as well.

I think the BSL people will be hard pressed to find a "Secret Order of the K9 Crazies" here. *You can't attack what you can't find!* And trying to find a reason to kill this form of K-9 training will be tough to do. I've even extended invites to the city "fathers" to see what we do, to give them the fuel to rethink the working/herding/sporting dog issues connected with BSL. Dan Long posts here and his dog, Gunnar got the AKC CGC a few months ago. This is useful PR material, it shows how one person and his dog can be "safe" to one standard and ready to deploy if the need should arise. Again, you can't attack what you can't find.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

We to have a open door we ask that you come out with out your dog and watch for a full day of training and if there still interested bring the dog the following week for testing. 
If they sound strange or kooky we give them directions to the ring club :-$


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> We to have a open door we ask that you come out with out your dog and watch for a full day of training and if there still interested bring the dog the following week for testing.
> If they sound strange or kooky we give them directions to the ring club :-$


Just kidding Lisa :lol:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We too have an open door. Since I'm "state funded", visitors are permitted to observe us when we train. We do get a few requests. There are certain parts of training we don't demonstrate, and areas we can not have visitors, but we do try to accomodate them when possible. They are not permitted to bring their dog and train with us however. Law enforcement from any department is welcome anytime.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Open door here since we train at a public park. We reserve time and space on a yearly basis. The Township where the park is located requires us to ask visitors to sign a waiver for insurance purposes.
Since we train without corrections we aren't going to get to much crap from the publlic although we have had a few ask why we are beating the dogs. (stick work) :roll:

There is a 4H group at the other end of the park that trains agility.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Ok let me spin in with this one...I think it has been a thread before, what about folks doing pictures or betteryet, video? Video is a wounderful tool for training, and a death tool if you mess up. Too often folks will use video to say, "See my TD wants it done this way."

I don't have any hang ups about it, but I can also see the possible use for harm. Can guests video sessions?


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

we haven't allowed visitors to take video, but have allowed still pictures.
In our club, come without your dog the first time, watch, ask questions, next time, bring your dog, and let us evaluate it...after that...club dues are due....ours is on private property, so short of the "dog person" getting lost going to the other local club...most of our newbies...are brought in by other members.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Mo Earle said:


> we haven't allowed visitors to take video, but have allowed still pictures.
> In our club, come without your dog the first time, watch, ask questions, next time, bring your dog, and let us evaluate it...after that...club dues are due....ours is on private property, so short of the "dog person" getting lost going to the other local club...most of our newbies...are brought in by other members.


Our club has similar policies in place for years. We are also on private property (everyone signs a release) and newbies often come by word of mouth. We give the prospect a couple months to visit and train, get to know each other before we vote them in or not. No one may come out simply for protection (we emphasize that we are not just a "bite club") but they can opt out of protection to do tracking and obedience only. We are very upfront and honest about evaluations and our training methods, nothing to hide here either. We have however discouraged some visitors after the first visit if we feel they are not a good match for the club. Not that we are "uppity" but we have a good group that gets along well, is very supportive of fellow club members and other clubs and don't want to add anyone that might be a catalyst in our club or between other clubs in the region.

As far as photos or video I think we may need to rethink this. We routinely photograph and video our own members for training purposes and to archive training progression. Perhaps a policy for visitors might be OK for them to tape or photograph their own dogs but not anyone else's without permission.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

With all the video from dog clubs on youtube.com, it's all out there for the world and any animal rights, anti-bite training people to see and gather. So only worry I would have is a visitor catching a bad training moment or accident. Which from my experience are few and far between.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

David Scholes said:


> So only worry I would have is a visitor catching a bad training moment or accident. Which from my experience are few and far between.


But you KNOW that's what would end up being caught on film!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Ok let me spin in with this one...I think it has been a thread before, what about folks doing pictures or betteryet, video? Video is a wounderful tool for training, and a death tool if you mess up. Too often folks will use video to say, "See my TD wants it done this way."
> 
> I don't have any hang ups about it, but I can also see the possible use for harm. Can guests video sessions?


Video is allowed for club members only and if we want to put it on the web a courtesy permission should be asked though we have nothing in our bylaws. Guests and nonmembers need to ask permission other wise no video. We had one dick-weed come out and test there shitter next thing there is video of his dog and our club are on there web site selling puppies


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Kristen Cabe said:


> But you KNOW that's what would end up being caught on film!


And exploited!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike and that draws my concern with video. You test someone's dog and then THEY use it on their website. Oh, the "ABC club" tested our great PPD and that's why the price is $. The problem also comes in and I know every good decoy checks it, the swinging catch or a jam. Then they want to say YOU injured their dog. I would guess many other accidents happen without neck issues like feet stepped on, or a stick in the eye, but what if? 

I think the idea of club members developing a video library is excellent in that you can see growth. I look at some of my old Giant Schnauzers tapes and wish he was still around now. Cancer is a bad thing. But video grow for the dog and the decoy are priceless and a point to think about down the road for the guests... Members only! :-k


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike and that draws my concern with video. You test someone's dog and then THEY use it on their website. Oh, the "ABC club" tested our great PPD and that's why the price is $. The problem also comes in and I know every good decoy checks it, the swinging catch or a jam. Then they want to say YOU injured their dog. I would guess many other accidents happen without neck issues like feet stepped on, or a stick in the eye, but what if? 

I think the idea of club members developing a video library is excellent in that you can see growth. I look at some of my old Giant Schnauzer tapes and wish he was still around now. Cancer is a bad thing. But video grow for the dog and the decoy are priceless and a point to think about down the road for the guests... Members only! :-k


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

> We had one dick-weed come out and test there shitter next thing there is video of his dog and our club are on there web site selling puppies


 That happened to us too!!!..actually he was also selling "training"and puppies (not purebreds either)](*,) :-?...when questioned about using our pics to advertise his 'deals" , and asked to remove pics that could associate us with his "business"...we were labeled...the ....well I'll say jerks! 
but we have an awesome little group ...just about 12 members...just right!! mo


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

Mike Scheiber said:


> If they sound strange or kooky we give them directions to the ring club :-$


That completely explains all the weirdos I met when I was up at Lisa G's place:wink:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

No photos or videos without permission.
We've had people come out for a session or two in order to find out if they want to join or if we want them iin the club. More then once those pics have turned up on the individual's web sites with claims that they are either club members or their dogs are bieng trained in Schutzhund. 
There are a few legit web sites that have our pics. These have been done with our knowledge and permission.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> No photos or videos without permission.
> We've had people come out for a session or two in order to find out if they want to join or if we want them iin the club. More then once those pics have turned up on the individual's web sites with claims that they are either club members or their dogs are bieng trained in Schutzhund.
> There are a few legit web sites that have our pics. These have been done with our knowledge and permission.


OK Bob for the sake of public health, I hope no pics or video contined speedos or thongs, man style!  :-o


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> OK Bob for the sake of public health, I hope no pics or video contined speedos or thongs, man style!  :-o



Ahhh geez there went dinner.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

David that'll teach ya to play on the computer before its time to eat. [-X


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

And me sitting here with a big bowl of ice cream. :-&


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