# What do you feed?



## julie allen

What does everyone feed? I have mine on Taste Of The Wild. Is this a good food?


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## David Frost

We've had a few threads on this. I feed Nutro. Have been for over 20 years and have found it to be a good solid dependable food. I have dogs that have worked until 11 and 12 years old. The number 3 EDD dog at the USPCA Nationals (2009) might have been 2008, it was Cookevill TN, (time goes so darn quick I can't keep up with it) was 13 and ate nothing but Nutro. He's retired now, still alive and still eating Nutro, ha ha.

DFrost


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## Larry Krohn

julie allen said:


> What does everyone feed? I have mine on Taste Of The Wild. Is this a good food?


I feed TOTW also, it is a very good food.


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## Faisal Khan

julie allen said:


> What does everyone feed? I have mine on Taste Of The Wild. Is this a good food?


Good for low activity dogs otherwise hard to maintain weight unless you feed a ton then they get sick!


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## eric squires

Mostly raw meat and bones. Some kibble mostly Purina ProPlan.


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## Tammy St. Louis

i have 8 dogs, feed a few Nutros ultra senior, and others Before Grain, and right now my mal eats raw Pets 4 Life


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## Chris McDonald

David Frost said:


> We've had a few threads on this.
> 
> A few?


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## Alice Bezemer

royal canin energy 4300


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## Selena van Leeuwen

our own brand of kibble.


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## Debbie Skinner

Raw (mostly beef, lamb, goat, venison during season), recently added ground fish because Ron is working in Los Angeles and we rented an apartment near the Redondo pier. "Fish chowder" (heads/tails) is $1/lb. Innova EVO when not able to feed raw. Hope EVO keeps their same recipe after buy-out. If not I'll have to find another kibble.


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## Angie Stark

Artemis Maximal during heavy training season, once training was cut way back, it was too rich for them so they're on Artemis Fresh Mix now till next month or so.


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## Gina Pasieka

Working dog gets K9 Kravings and small house dog eats Natures Variety kibble.


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## Martine Loots

We feed raw.


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## Ashley Campbell

Kirkland Signature chicken and rice. Probably going to swap out to the grainless stuff now that our Costco carries it. 
Before that, Purina One. I also toss in some raw cuts and bones frequently.


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## Alison Grubb

The bulldog gets Kirkland Lamb and Rice. The Mal gets Purina Pro Plan.

I'd like to start the raw thing once I get some livestock up and going on the farm. Gotta do some research though.


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## Geoff Empey

I feed my dogs RAW .. a slop from a local butcher with ground chicken carcasses, fish oil a couple of eggs a week and a small shot of urban wolf for veggies. http://www.urbanwolf.cc/


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## Matt Grosch

Ashley Campbell said:


> Kirkland Signature chicken and rice. Probably going to swap out to the grainless stuff now that our Costco carries it.
> Before that, Purina One. I also toss in some raw cuts and bones frequently.




a kirkland brand grainless food? any details?


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## Ashley Campbell

Matt Grosch said:


> a kirkland brand grainless food? any details?





> Brand new food at Costco.
> Per ingredients it looks like the "lesser" version of
> Taste Of The Wild, made by the same company.
> $28 for 35 lb,
> Protein 24%, Fat 14 %.
> Opinions please on the below ingredients.
> Is the starch from all the potato ingredients a bad thing?
> 
> Nature's Domain Salmon Meal and Sweet Potatoes ingredients are:
> 
> Salmon meal, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, canola oil, potato protein,
> potato fiber, natural flavor, flaxseed, ocean fish meal, salt, choline
> chloride, dries chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, rasberries, yucca schidgera
> extract, dried fermentation products of Enterococcus faecium, dried
> Lactobacillus acidophilus, dried Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum,
> dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, Vitamin E supplement,
> iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc
> sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (Vitamin B1),
> manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement,
> biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine
> hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2),
> vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


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## Matt Grosch

I wonder how that would compare to the regular kirkland (with rice and barley)


Ingredients:
Chicken,chicken meal,whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, egg product, beet pulp, chicken fat(preserved with mixed tocopherols and Vitamin E), potatoes,fish meal, flaxseed,natural flavors, brewers dried yeast, millet, potassium chloride, salt, choline, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder,
salmon oil (a source of DHA), rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 28.0% minimum
Crude Fat 17.0% minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% minimum
Moisture 10.0% minimum
Calcium 1.2% minimum
Phosphorus 1.0%minimum
Zinc 225mg/kg minimum
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg minimum
Vitamin E 250 IU/kg minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.0% minimum*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.5% minimum*
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 0.05% minimum*


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## Ashley Campbell

No clue, I am far from being a dog food nazi/expert.  I just copy/pasted that from another site that had the ingredients, as I'm finishing up a bag of the chicken and rice right now.


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## Matt Grosch

some commentary

http://www.viewpoints.com/Kirkland-Dog-Food-reviews/topics/Grain-Free/posts


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## Ashley Campbell

Yeah that's my only concern, I tried the Pacific stream Taste of the Wild and one dog lost weight and my bitch got fat (I might have over fed her but I don't think so) and smelled fishy. My bitch sleeps on my bed, I don't want anything fishy smelling anywhere near where I sleep. 

But speaking of cheaper kibble, my pup ate whatever my parents feed (I think they feed some store brand) and OMG does he reek. I mean literally I could barely stand the doggy smell in my car for the ride back to CO, lol. But, funny thing was, all of their dogs turned their nose up at the Kirkland I brought with me, including my pup.


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## Chad Byerly

Debbie Skinner said:


> Innova EVO when not able to feed raw. Hope EVO keeps their same recipe after buy-out. If not I'll have to find another kibble.


We were told that Natura recipes won't change, but no guarantee on sourcing or quality... 
We feed and carry Orijen and Acana now.


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## Debbie Skinner

Chad Byerly said:


> We were told that Natura recipes won't change, but no guarantee on sourcing or quality...
> We feed and carry Orijen and Acana now.


I may have to look into that. We maybe feed 10% kibble and it's just when I'm in a rush or forgot to thaw out the raw, etc.


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## Geoff Empey

Chad Byerly said:


> We were told that Natura recipes won't change, but no guarantee on sourcing or quality...
> We feed and carry Orijen and Acana now.


Both my dogs did well on any of the Orijen but I tried the Acana Agility and Sport the bitch did well but the pup turned into gaseous clay .. he was a diarrhea tootin' machine with that. It took a long time for his guts to calm down on the sport and agility even giving extra rice and such. 

He is in Montreal with my TD for the month while I recover from my surgery and we tried Fromm 4star Chicken Veg http://www.frommfamily.com/products-fs-d-d-chicken.php 

He is a lot better with that but the protein is not as high as both the Orijen and Acana so he is getting more food volume and that equals to bulkier turds. It will be nice to get him back and put him back on the RAW.


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## Connie Sutherland

Ashley Campbell said:


> .... I tried the Pacific stream Taste of the Wild ..... and my bitch got fat (I might have over fed her but I don't think so) and smelled fishy.


Oddly, some dogs develop this fishy smell (like from fish oil that is not deodorized) and some don't.

I have no idea why.

I have one who does and two who don't (from fish oil).


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## chad paquin

Feed earthborn. Mostly raw. In a few mnths i will try there grain free. They just came out with 2 new ones. As I dont feed alot of kibble i dont mind tye grain and she is you. Just feel doogs dont need all that protien at such a young age or all the time. But when working all the time I like it.


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## Ashley Campbell

Connie Sutherland said:


> Oddly, some dogs develop this fishy smell (like from fish oil that is not deodorized) and some don't.
> 
> I have no idea why.
> 
> I have one who does and two who don't (from fish oil).


Yep, Boston Harbor at low tide had nothing on this. She really reeked. I switched back to Kirkland because TOTW is over $50 a bag here and the smell stopped, so I assumed it was teh fish content in the food that caused it.


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## Connie Sutherland

Ashley Campbell said:


> Yep, Boston Harbor at low tide had nothing on this.



Or to be even more specific, Carson Beach at low tide? :lol:

Luckily, the newish treatment plant at Deer Island pretty much rectified that olfactory assault. 



Back on topic: Fortunately, there are some top brands of fish oils that offer deodorized versions, so even if you skip Boston Harbor Perfume from fish, you can still provide no-stink EPA and DHA. :lol:


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## Maureen A Osborn

We feed raw....ground up whole chicken legs, beef, venison, organ meats (chicken or beef liver, chicken or beef hearts, kidney if available), yogurt, whole eggs, sardines. Will also feed Honest Kitchen and Nature's Variety Frozen Raw Bison,Venison,Rabbit, or Lamb medallions when we need more fresh raw and haven't gotten around to the store.

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/learn/comparing-our-foods/

http://www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/dog/all


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## Nancy Jocoy

After the vet suggested I cut back on protein (one dog is 8 yo, the other nearing) I switched to Natures Balance LID. I rotate protein source each bag and the bloodowork has returned to 'normal' and I like the dogs on it. I do add some olive oil at times.

Now, what is normal? Do we know - is normal normal for dogs not fed higher protein diets?

Not sure it is the greatest of foods and it is not cheap but I took it on suggestion of someone else who had a remarkably healthy looking dog on same food. They seem to use the food very efficiently and eat a small volume. Before that, it was Evo.

The more I go along, the less I angst about dog food. About the only concern with this is the citric acid is the preservative so I limit water for about an hour before and after feeding.


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## Matt Grosch

still have never heard a reason to cut back on protein for mature dogs, and it was touched upon earlier in this thread, but limiting protein for a pup hasnt been settled either


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## Connie Sutherland

Matt Grosch said:


> still have never heard a reason to cut back on protein for mature dogs ....


Neither have I.

Well, I have heard the old kidney myth, but I hope we're well beyond that.


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## James Biggs

I feed raw and honest kitchen preference normally. But for pregnant/lactating bitches, or road trips i keep Orijen 80/20 around, Its by far the best "kibble" on the market. Obvisouly i dont wanna leave a bowl of raw meat out all day for a pregnant bitch, but i think they should eat whenever they want (stress free) so Orijen is the next best option. they also have a new wild boar variety that i sometimes throw in just for variety in the diet. This is the ONLY dog food that i have used where the waste comes out the same way raw meat does. The real tale is how there is no stomach upset when going from raw to kibble. 

Here check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONnTH-flAhs


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## James Biggs

Matt Grosch said:


> still have never heard a reason to cut back on protein for mature dogs, and it was touched upon earlier in this thread, but limiting protein for a pup hasnt been settled either


 I was under the impression the high protein foods keep the urine acidic and keeps away infections and UTI's...or something like that, been a while since i researcher it.


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## Brian Anderson

All natural the only way to go. Not practical for everyone but there is no prepared kibble that can compare to a balanced natural raw diet.


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## Maren Bell Jones

James Biggs said:


> I was under the impression the high protein foods keep the urine acidic and keeps away infections and UTI's...or something like that, been a while since i researcher it.


From what I know in cats, canned foods are usually superior to dry foods not so much because they have higher protein, but because the higher moisture content which prevents cystitis. I don't know about protein making the urine more acidic, will have to look that one up. Also, we don't want the urine too acidic or dogs are more likely to have calcium oxalate stones. So a urine pH just a tiny bit acidic (pH=6.5 or so) they have figured out is best.

Back to the question, I do:
-a half and half mix of EVO Salmon and Herring and California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato for the two senior dogs and my young adult male
-HealthWise Chicken Meal and Rice for my middle aged adult female, who does well on most things
-lamb bones 1-2 times a week. Unfortunately, I have been out of them for a few weeks now and have gone back to brushing teeth. Cool tip: Virbac Vanilla Mint dog toothpaste + Crest Spin Brush = way better brushing experience! The toothpaste actually smells pretty decent, the dogs like the taste, and the spin brush gets everything cleaner than a manual tooth brush.


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## Connie Sutherland

_QUOTE: I was under the impression the high protein foods keep the urine acidic and keeps away infections and UTI's...or something like that, been a while since i researcher it. END_

Yes, this was generally accepted information for a long time.



About urine pH and bladder infections (and struvites):

The bladder infection makes the urine alkaline, not vice versa. This is a very common, very long-lived misconception, and it persists even in the vet world, with recommendations to change foods when UTIs persist.

JMO.

I'll see what saved material I can find.




eta

http://vettechs.blogspot.com/2005/05/so-your-dog-has-struvites.html

“If your dog has struvite stones, he has a bladder infection. He doesn't need a special diet and he doesn't need his urinary pH adjusted. He needs his infection diagnosed and treated.

(To be perfectly accurate, there is a condition known as "sterile" or "metabolic" struvites that occurs very, very rarely in the dog. This condition isn't just a zebra, however; it's a unicorn. I'll say more about it later on.)

_Why do dogs with urinary tract infections have struvite stones? Why do they so often have alkaline urine?_

"The urine becomes alkaline for the same reason the stones form: Because the urease-producing bacteria that usually cause canine UTIs produce magnesium, phosphate, and ammonium as waste products. The urine becomes super-saturated with these waste products. Add it all together, shake well, and you have struvite stones. It was once believed that the alkaline urine "caused" struvite stones, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Rather, it's now believed they are caused by the same thing, the bacterial waste products. In fact, sometimes struvite stones are called "triple phosphate" or "M.A.P" for "magnesium, ammonium, phosphate."
_
Should you acidify the urine of a dog with struvite stones to dissolve the crystals?_

"This is sort of like cutting the wire to the "check engine" light instead of fixing the engine. Diagnose and treat the bladder infection and the urinary pH will resolve naturally."
_
Won't acidifying the urine kill the bacteria?_

"That's a very common belief, expressed quite often on holistic email lists, but it's not true. While many bacteria don't like acid mediums, some do. More to the point, it's impossible to get bodily fluids and tissues acid enough to actually kill bacteria. There are bacteria that can live in vinegar (in fact, without some of them we wouldn't have vinegar). And as fast as you are acidifying the urine, the bacteria are in there alkalinizing it. The solution is to diagnose and treat the bladder infection. (Are you sensing a theme here?)”



Lew Olson’s 09/04 newsletter (Lew Olson = Nutrition PhD):

"Struvite crystals are common in dogs; one study found that 44% of urine samples from normal, healthy dogs contained struvite crystals. 

Urinary tract infections cause urine to be alkaline (high pH) and form struvite crystals. In that case, it is important to treat the cause (the infection) rather than trying to change the diet or acidify the urine."



http://www.vetinfo.com/dogurinary.html
"There is very little concrete evidence to show that keeping urine pH low actually decreases the risk of urinary tract infection."


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## Connie Sutherland

Maren Bell Jones said:


> From what I know in cats, canned foods are usually superior to dry foods not so much because they have higher protein, but because the higher moisture content which prevents cystitis. .... we don't want the urine too acidic or dogs are more likely to have calcium oxalate stones.


Well, Maren, I know you need to know that my home research agrees with your actual vet education, so I will tell you: It does. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Tim Connell

I feed all three of my dogs Wellness Holistic Select ...2 GSD's and a Malinois. All have thrived on it, keep weight on well, great coats, and have no adverse issues. For all of them, I only have to feed 1 cup am and 1 cup pm. I supplement with NUPRO Silver-which is awesome stuff, Springtime Garlic, and Springtime Omega 3-6-9. I feed the lamb, and the anchovy/sardine 50/50. Very decent food at a reasonable price.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>>Wellness Holistic Select

this is not a food ..

its either Wellness you feed

or Holistic select, made by Eagle pack ,,


>>>I feed the lamb, and the anchovy/sardine 50/50.

that just answered, it sorry ,,

you feed, Eagle holistic select


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## Connie Sutherland

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>Wellness Holistic Select
> 
> this is not a food ..
> 
> its either Wellness you feed
> 
> or Holistic select, made by Eagle pack ,,
> 
> 
> >>>I feed the lamb, and the anchovy/sardine 50/50.
> 
> that just answered, it sorry ,,
> 
> you feed, Eagle holistic select


WellPet makes Holistic Select. I believe they have Wellness, (Holistic) Select, and Eagle Pack, all under the WellPet umbrella.

http://www.wellpet.com/

I can't keep up with acquisitions and conglomerates!


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## Tammy St. Louis

holistic select is eagle , 
i saw that they carry all 3


http://holisticselect.com/packaging-teaser.aspx


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## Michelle Reusser

I fed TOTW when I was broke. Back to feeding Orijen and EVO.


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## Tim Connell

"Wellpet" it is...Wellness, Holistic Select, Old Mother Hubbard, etc. all under one umbrella now...

www.wellpet.com


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>> "Wellpet" it is...Wellness, Holistic Select, Old Mother Hubbard, etc. all under one umbrella now..

what are you saying? all these brands are one food now ?

I work at a pet store for 16 yrs now , we carry each individual line, so i havent heard of them becoming one food, 

the person said they feed Wellness, hoicstic select, 

those are 2 differnt foods, is what i said, not sure of your point here?


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## Tim Connell

One company...Wellpet...owns several different food brands...

Here's your analogy: General Motors has brands: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, etc....


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## Lamar Blackmor

an MENU fods responses for mass melmine recal make about 90 diffrent bran of cat an dogs foods. most shitty foods cheap or espensive for old roy to nutros to eukanub. kill thousans of animls for soursing ingrdients from china. even fine melmine in grocer store meats for peoples eating lik fining poison in hi fructo corn syryp from light bulb factory tha also make process food ofr ppeople. how many people will die? mos of people. shop smart shop small so if your dog die form posion food you go to sources and slap witht he hands.


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## maggie fraser

Lamar Blackmor said:


> an MENU fods responses for mass melmine recal make about 90 diffrent bran of cat an dogs foods. most shitty foods cheap or espensive for old roy to nutros to eukanub. kill thousans of animls for soursing ingrdients from china. even fine melmine in grocer store meats for peoples eating lik fining poison in hi fructo corn syryp from light bulb factory tha also make process food ofr ppeople. how many people will die? mos of people. shop smart shop small so if your dog die form posion food you go to sources and slap witht he hands.


That's probably one of the best posts I've read on dog food so far :-D.


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## Ashley Campbell

Lamar Blackmor said:


> an MENU fods responses for mass melmine recal make about 90 diffrent bran of cat an dogs foods. most shitty foods cheap or espensive for old roy to nutros to eukanub. kill thousans of animls for soursing ingrdients from china. even fine melmine in grocer store meats for peoples eating lik fining poison in hi fructo corn syryp from light bulb factory tha also make process food ofr ppeople. how many people will die? mos of people. shop smart shop small so if your dog die form posion food you go to sources and slap witht he hands.


Does someone want to find out what language this is and give me a dictionary to translate? Lamar, start typing from a cell phone, at least it can auto correct most of that into making sense of some sort.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>>One company...Wellpet...owns several different food brands..

so what food do you feed, ? do you switch between wellness and eagle ,, 

it doesnt matter that well pet owns several different food brands I dont think that was the question , it was what food do you feed 

not what company makes several food brands, lol


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## Gerry Grimwood

Lamar Blackmor said:


> an MENU fods responses for mass melmine recal make about 90 diffrent bran of cat an dogs foods. most shitty foods cheap or espensive for old roy to nutros to eukanub. kill thousans of animls for soursing ingrdients from china. even fine melmine in grocer store meats for peoples eating lik fining poison in hi fructo corn syryp from light bulb factory tha also make process food ofr ppeople. how many people will die? mos of people. shop smart shop small so if your dog die form posion food you go to sources and slap witht he hands.


I believe that Lamars hairy white azz is correct when he implies that most dog foods are produced by the same company, nothing new here... manufacturers produce many different products labelled under different names.

Suprise :razz:


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## Marta Wajngarten

David Frost said:


> I feed Nutro. Have been for over 20 years and have found it to be a good solid dependable food.
> 
> DFrost


You do know that Nutro went through several formula changes, all for the worse. It was a great food maybe 12 years ago (and before that) and before they were bought out. They're formula was also found to have nearly toxic levels of zinc, which they denied, but changed the formula to decrease the zinc content a year later. 

My favourite site for reading up on dog food: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog-food-index-a.html
I love the details they go into when analyzing the contents of all the foods reviewed. Gives you a good idea of how manufacturers can manipulate the ingredient list to appear as if the food was better quality then it really is. 

My big guy is on raw, if I run out or travel, he gets Orijen. Little one is on Tolloden Farms prepared raw, it includes finely chopped bones which is great because she couldn't eat a real bone if her life depended on it. She has food allergies with most kibbles and while she did ok on Orijen she does noticeably better on pure raw so she does not get any kibble at any time. New pup is on Orijen puppy.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Orijen...:lol:

I live in the province where this is produced, from the site..



> Different from conventional pet food makers, our Biologically Appropriate focus means our foods are formulated to nourish dogs and cats in keeping with their evolutionary and anatomical adaptation to protein-rich diets that include a broad variety of fresh meats.
> That means we don’t buy the bulk commodity ingredients found in conventional pet foods.
> Instead, we start with fresh, never-frozen meats that are sustainably farmed, fished or ranched within our region by people we know and trust. Considered too expensive by conventional pet food makers, our fresh regional ingredients are unmatched in any other dog or cat food on earth.


I can assure you there is no fish species available in Alberta that is in their ingredient list...region is the key word, region can be a big word :razz:

Like most other countries I think, if a product here goes through some type of processing it can be labeled a product of Canada even if the source ingredient comes from Timbuktoo.


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## Jim Nash

Marta Haus said:


> You do know that Nutro went through several formula changes, all for the worse. It was a great food maybe 12 years ago (and before that) and before they were bought out. They're formula was also found to have nearly toxic levels of zinc, which they denied, but changed the formula to decrease the zinc content a year later.
> 
> My favourite site for reading up on dog food: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog-food-index-a.html
> I love the details they go into when analyzing the contents of all the foods reviewed. Gives you a good idea of how manufacturers can manipulate the ingredient list to appear as if the food was better quality then it really is.
> 
> My big guy is on raw, if I run out or travel, he gets Orijen. Little one is on Tolloden Farms prepared raw, it includes finely chopped bones which is great because she couldn't eat a real bone if her life depended on it. She has food allergies with most kibbles and while she did ok on Orijen she does noticeably better on pure raw so she does not get any kibble at any time. New pup is on Orijen puppy.



Most of the 18 dogs in our unit eat Nutro and have for about 10 years now and they do and look great . I've fed both may K9's Nutro , my current partner is 10 now and people think he's much younger . With my first K9 I tried Eagle Pack for a short time and he looked horrible . 

Some of our K9s are doing well eating Orijen but others have tried it and their dogs didn't do well on it . Loose stools and alot of gas mostly .


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## Gerry Grimwood

Also from the Orijen site..



> *RICH in MEAT & PROTEIN | 80% / 38% *
> ORIJEN ADULT DOG is made with a full 80% of meat from free-run chicken and turkey, fresh whole eggs and wild-caught fish. These high meat inclusions produce a Biologically Appropriate protein level of 38%, which replicates the natural diet and nourishes your dog according to his anatomical adaptation to meat protein.


Maybe someone smarter than me can explain how they get that percentage of protein from meat.

Ther's an example at the bottom of this page.

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/labeti/guide/ch14e.shtml


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## Connie Sutherland

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Also from the Orijen site..
> 
> *RICH in MEAT & PROTEIN | 80% / 38% *_
> ORIJEN ADULT DOG is made with a full 80% of meat from free-run chicken and turkey, fresh whole eggs and wild-caught fish. These high meat inclusions produce a Biologically Appropriate protein level of 38%, ...._
> 
> 
> Maybe someone smarter than me can explain how they get that percentage of protein from meat.


Do you mean how come 80% meat, eggs, and fish makes it only 38% protein?

Meat is not just protein. It's other things too, but the biggest other thing, as with most fresh foods, is water.

Or am I missing the question?


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## Gerry Grimwood

I'm asking if a kibble diet can be around 40% protein from meat sources only as the site implies.


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## Connie Sutherland

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I'm asking if a kibble diet can be around 40% protein from meat sources only as the site implies.



And fish and eggs. Yes, it can. 

For example, an egg white alone, which starts out something like 90% water, when the water is removed what remains is mainly protein (probably 4 to 5 grams of protein plus a few trace minerals).

Kibble needs about 40% starchy stuff to do the actual kibble process (to stick it all together).

But I'll go look at the ingredient list to make sure there's a meat meal high on the list and that there are no significant non-animal protein sources. (Meat is only about 10% protein where meat meal might be 70% protein.)

(It's probably ideal to contain a named meat AND a named meat meal, but I'm basing that on nothing but a suspicion that something we don't yet know about may be lost when meat is turned to meal. So it's strictly personal, and not scientific, but I would like to see both.)


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## Connie Sutherland

Well, while it looks like 38% is completely believable from that I.L., I'm curious about what protein there is in a couple of the produce items (like potato and sweet potato). I mean, it does exist. Is there actually a statement in there that all the protein comes from the animal sources? Or does it say more that all the animal sources are what cause the protein level to be so high?

I didn't read the whole verbiage.

All the protein does not come from animal sources (but almost all of it does), but yes, all those animal sources are what cause the protein level to be so high.

JMO, and I didn't do the math to see what % approximate comes from non-animal sources.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Hmmm, Mongo not communicating very well with Connie.

I feed these whole animal patties among other stuff, they are average 15-17 % protein as listed on the box. If I let one of these patties dry out the percentage of protein will be larger due to evaporation of water but the actual amount of protein can't change.

If you give a dog a peice of meat that is 15% and a fish that is 20% and a couple of eggs that are say another 15%...did you just feed that dog a 50% protein meal ?


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## Connie Sutherland

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Hmmm, Mongo not communicating very well with Connie.
> 
> I feed these whole animal patties among other stuff, they are average 15-17 % protein as listed on the box. If I let one of these patties dry out the percentage of protein will be larger due to evaporation of water but the actual amount of protein can't change.


Patties have no meal in them. The actual amount of protein would not change if they lost all their water, but the protein percentage would change a lot.

That meal in the I.L. had to be there for that protein percentage. It could not have been that high without it.

_"If you give a dog a peice of meat that is 15% and a fish that is 20% and a couple of eggs that are say another 15%...did you just feed that dog a 50% protein meal "_

No. :lol: If they were roughly each the same proportion, then you fed about a 16 1/2% protein meal.

At this point, I'm not sure which one of is Mongo. Ever hang out with Gene Wilder and Cleavon Little?


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## Maren Bell Jones

It's because you want to convert the two types to dry matter. This explains why and how to do this:



> The levels of nutrients in the table below are expressed on a 'dry matter' (DM) basis. On most pet food labels, the levels listed in the guaranteed analysis are expressed on an 'as fed' basis. To convert 'as fed' to 'dry matter' a simple conversion is necessary. If a dry food has 10% moisture we know that it has 90% dry matter. So we look at the label and check the protein level. That reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by the 90% dry matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein on a dry matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now let us compare this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that with 80% moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5% protein. So we take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25% protein on a dry matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per pound on a dry matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can do the same for fat, fiber, etc.


From: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659+1661&aid=662

That being said, if you want to compare a raw patty, it's easiest to compare with canned foods because they typically have a somewhat similar moisture content.


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## Connie Sutherland

You can, of course. But I don't think Gerry's basic question was really the comparison between the patties and the Orijen. 

But maybe it was. I am feeling Mongo-ish now. LOL


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## Connie Sutherland

_"That being said, if you want to compare a raw patty, it's easiest to compare with canned foods because they typically have a somewhat similar moisture content."_


That's a good point. 

That would be interesting, but Orijen doesn't have a canned food.

And a canned food couldn't be over maybe 10 or 15% protein .... because of the water not being squeezed out .... so maybe the dry matter conversion WAS what Gerry was asking. :lol:


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## Gerry Grimwood

Connie Sutherland said:


> And a canned food couldn't be over maybe 10 or 15% protein .... because of the water not being squeezed out .... so maybe the dry matter conversion WAS what Gerry was asking. :lol:


Yes, If you have 2 steaks and decide to eat one raw and the other dehydrated..the protein content must stay about the same, all you've done is remove moisture.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Right...like if you look at something like EVO 95% Chicken and Turkey (which is basically canned meat and vitamins/minerals), it's like 11% protein as fed.

http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?panel=na&id=1494


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## Gerry Grimwood

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Right...like if you look at something like EVO 95% Chicken and Turkey (which is basically canned meat and vitamins/minerals), it's like 11% protein as fed.
> 
> http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?panel=na&id=1494


So then the whole protein content thing is just smoke n mirrors. Why isn't there something like a recommended grams daily or per meal, you know..something that is understandable.

I don't even remember why I asked this question, I wrote it down somewhere..if I ever find my glasses I'll look for it and let you know :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Yes, If you have 2 steaks and decide to eat one raw and the other dehydrated..the protein content must stay about the same .....


But not the percentage.


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## Ashley Campbell

Mongo like candy...

Don't feel bad Gerry, it doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. I read the bag, I see 24% and go "uh ok".

So let me ask, when dehydrated it ups the "protein percentage" because it's less bulk without the water. 2 steaks of the same weight have the same protein percentage but when you dehydrate 4 steaks to equal the weight of the original undehydrated one it has more protein because it's obviously a lot more meat, just with less water content?

Does that make sense? I damn near hurt myself trying to figure that out.


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## Connie Sutherland

Gerry Grimwood said:


> So then the whole protein content thing is just smoke n mirrors. Why isn't there something like a recommended grams daily or per meal, you know..something that is understandable.


There are recommendations of protein consumption by the gram rather than percent of something, just as there are for humans (with tons of disagreement).

There are almost equally diverse opinions about dogs' protein needs at various stages and under various conditions. 



Dogs need a minimum of about a gram of animal protein per pound of body weight. (Notice that "animal" adjective?) 

That's really general, though, because age, growth rate, and again, the kind of protein (because the usable amino acids also dictate the amount needed), can all modify that requirement.

Anyway: before asking how many grams the dog needs, you have to ask what the protein source is. If it's an animal source, then a gram a pound minimum is a good starting point, to make age (for example) adjustments to.


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## Connie Sutherland

Ashley Campbell said:


> Mongo like candy...
> 
> Don't feel bad Gerry, it doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. I read the bag, I see 24% and go "uh ok".
> 
> So let me ask, when dehydrated it ups the "protein percentage" because it's less bulk without the water. 2 steaks of the same weight have the same protein percentage but when you dehydrate 4 steaks to equal the weight of the original undehydrated one it has more protein because it's obviously a lot more meat, just with less water content?
> 
> Does that make sense? I damn near hurt myself trying to figure that out.


Yes. The weight of one decreased, so the percentage of anything left HAS to go up.

If you have a cup of water with a teaspoon of salt in it, beside a plain dry teaspoon of salt, which one is 100% salt?


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## Maren Bell Jones

Ashley Campbell said:


> Mongo like candy...
> 
> Don't feel bad Gerry, it doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. I read the bag, I see 24% and go "uh ok".
> 
> So let me ask, when dehydrated it ups the "protein percentage" because it's less bulk without the water. 2 steaks of the same weight have the same protein percentage but when you dehydrate 4 steaks to equal the weight of the original undehydrated one it has more protein because it's obviously a lot more meat, just with less water content?
> 
> Does that make sense? I damn near hurt myself trying to figure that out.


Yes. Said another way, if you cook 2 identical cuts of steaks for yourself (or your dog or whatever), one dehydrated into jerky and the other grilled, the grams of protein would be the same, but the percentage of protein in each would be different. The jerky obviously has a *higher percentage* of protein per unit of weight, but the *absolute amount of protein* expressed in a weight is the same. And yes, if you add twice as much dehydrated, it would have twice as much absolute amount of protein. 

So if you were making dog food and say you put in 50 g of cooked chicken for every 100 total g of food in versus 50 g of chicken meal, there's going to be a higher percentage of protein with the chicken meal because about 70% of the fresh cooked chicken is water.


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## Ashley Campbell

THere you go "per unit of weight" - that made it out of drooling on myself idiot moment. I am mathematically challenged, including volume and measurement.


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## Maren Bell Jones

No worries, nutrition is tricky! I liked Connie's spoonful of salt analogy too. May have to steal that some day. :wink:


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## Gerry Grimwood

Connie Sutherland said:


> If you have a cup of water with a teaspoon of salt in it, beside a plain dry teaspoon of salt, which one is 100% salt?


If you eat the dry salt it makes you thirsty..then you drink a cup o water and it's all the same.


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## Ashley Campbell

Maren Bell Jones said:


> No worries, nutrition is tricky! I liked Connie's spoonful of salt analogy too. May have to steal that some day. :wink:


Not just nutrition, math is tricky for me. My 2nd grader is bringing home math homework that is starting to get beyond my comprehension already. Luckily, I have never held a job that required the use of anything other than grammar skills. I'd probably get fired from McD's in a day for goofing up the cash register. 

K.I.S.S is my motto when it comes to math.


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## julie allen

Ok I am looking into a raw diet. Where do you get the meat from? What about duck and deer?


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## Connie Sutherland

Gerry Grimwood said:


> If you eat the dry salt it makes you thirsty..then you drink a cup o water and it's all the same.



Mongo funny! :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland

julie allen said:


> Ok I am looking into a raw diet. Where do you get the meat from? What about duck and deer?


What have you read? Want some links? Is your dog an adult? 

Yes, duck and deer can both be part of a raw diet.

_
Where do you get the meat from? _

I started at the grocery store butcher counter and still get quite a bit there, but also now have other sources. Many people seek out ethnic meat stores, restaurant suppliers, farmers, fishermen*, and more. 

But you can easily start out with nothing but the store where you buy your own food, unless we're talking a bunch of dogs.


*Warning: No raw salmonids from west of the Cascade Range


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## julie allen

Just info online, my vet still recommends science diet lol. I have 6 dogs, well soon 5 as one is sold. Youngest is 6 months and oldest is around 10 or 12. I am not sure if this will be practical for me with this many dogs. Yes, links would be great. I thought about the deer processing places, as we have a few near here. My son hunts, and gives away alot of the meat. He also loves to fish, lol but doesn"t catch near enough to feed 5 dogs!


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## Connie Sutherland

julie allen said:


> Just info online, my vet still recommends science diet lol. I have 6 dogs, well soon 5 as one is sold. Youngest is 6 months and oldest is around 10 or 12. I am not sure if this will be practical for me with this many dogs. Yes, links would be great. I thought about the deer processing places, as we have a few near here. My son hunts, and gives away alot of the meat. He also loves to fish, lol but doesn"t catch near enough to feed 5 dogs!


Sent PM.


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## Janette Oglesby

I feed mostly raw. Chicken leg quarters, beef heart, turkey necks, livers, eggs, fish, also Blue Ridge Beef products, (Breeders Blend. Natural mix and green tripe) I keep TOTW on hand for when I forget to thaw, run short, just get lazy or have too many glasses of wine. I like the Bison version best.

Just an aside concerning the above posters comment about their vet recommending Hills Science Diet. The company participates in Veterinary School programs. Veterinarians, especially those in practice over 10 yrs or so were taught that in vet school. People tend to stay with what they are familiar with. Vets do tend to poo poo the raw diet. My husband is a vet, we own a practice, I feed raw, took him awhile to get used to the idea, but now he even tells clients that "my wife feeds raw"

We still carry Hill's and Purina products at our office. Old habits die hard I guess.....at least for old veterinarians.


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## Nick Jenkins

Can you really blame vets though. Lets be honest you all are the cream of the dog world crop, but the vast majority of dog owners I would never trust to formulate an entire diet for their dog or for that matter even follow directions to make the whole diet. Why mess with something that works for something that most people can't do properly. 
I know people will argue raw is better and all that is fine and good but traditional diets have everything a dog needs to live and function properly, a less than perfect raw diet does not.


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## Matt Grosch

It doesnt have anything to do with feeding raw, they can recommend a dry dog kibble but the fact that they recommend one of the (obviously) crappiest dogs foods there is says a lot


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## Nick Jenkins

But what if they started recommending orijen and totw and all the pricey premium kibbles then the general public would bitch at them for that. Even though science diet and the like aren't great foods in terms of quality they are balanced and complete and cheap and that is what is important to the majority.


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## Angie Stark

Nick Jenkins said:


> But what if they started recommending orijen and totw and all the pricey premium kibbles then the general public would bitch at them for that. Even though science diet and the like aren't great foods in terms of quality they are balanced and complete and cheap and that is what is important to the majority.


I dont buy it but last I looked, it wasnt any cheaper than premium kibble if you buy it in the vet's office...which is what they obviously want you to do and then they try and push the special forumulas that arent sold in stores that much too.


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## Gina Pasieka

It is unfortunate how Science Diet is pushed in veterinary school. They sponsor get togethers and lectures and offer the food for free through all 4 years of vet school. I did take the food, but donated it to rescue organizations. I am a veterinarian...and I feed raw. I also feed a premade raw, there is no way I have the time, nor the knowledge to try to make a fully formulated diet. I am not in a position to recommend raw to people and I do believe that it is not the right way to go for a lot of pet owners, however I do always recommend better quality kibbles if the question arises.


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## Nick Jenkins

Agree about the food in the vets office it is crazy expensive. No one should buy in there if price is the concern. Vets In general aren't great with nutrition so they push what won't hurt the dog and will help themselves. I think the vets should have the knowledge to talk to clients about what their needs and limitations are and find a good food for that individual.


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## Terry Berns

My dogs did not do well on TOTW, EVO, NOW, Canine Caviar as well as a raw diet (with added vitamins). Their coats were dull and my Rottie had soft stools, although all blood work and several fecal checks were negative. 
I tried Abady granular Stress and Maintenance on the advise of an animal nutritionist. Both dog's coats improved and my Rottie had perfect stools within 2 weeks. I'm not going to dispute some of the opinions on previous threads regarding some of the ingredients because I have and had many of the same concerns. However, I liked the fact that the calories were high enough that I only have to feed my 110lb Rottie 1&3/4 cups twice per day and he's holding all muscle weight and no extra fat. He's very energetic and is training in French Ring, trotting on a treadmill 20 mins. per day for the hill work,fast walk 2-3 miles with my hubby 5 times per week as well as running and playing on our horse farm a few hours per day. He also earned a V-3 at the AIRK Nationals held in October of 2010 at 14 months old so I guess the German judge liked the way he looked as well.
All that said, I'm folding to peer pressure and switching my dogs to Orijen. I have a months supply of Abady left and purchased a bag of Orijen to start switching over in a few weeks. Will report back in a few months as to the results. 
This feeding thing keeps me awake at night!!


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## Connie Sutherland

Terry Berns said:


> .... switching my dogs to Orijen. I have a months supply of Abady left and purchased a bag of Orijen to start switching over in a few weeks. Will report back in a few months as to the results.


Set yourself and the dog up for success by switching gradually (mixing a little in with old food, etc.).

About the coat thing: I would add fish oil and E regardless of the brand (or in fact regardless of whether it's kibble or raw). Not just for nice coat, but for all the benefits of long-chain Omega 3s.


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## Terry Berns

Thank you, Connie. I plan to take two weeks to switch them over. 
I did have them on organic salmon oil prior to feeding the Abady but it didn't seem to work well and it was one of the things that I eliminated when trying to find the source of soft stools. 
I spend more time fretting and researching my dogs, cats and horses feeds than I ever did my own.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Ah Abady...I think which can be summarized in the following quote by Mark Twain:



> It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.


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## Connie Sutherland

Terry Berns said:


> Thank you, Connie. I plan to take two weeks to switch them over.
> I did have them on organic salmon oil prior to feeding the Abady but it didn't seem to work well and it was one of the things that I eliminated when trying to find the source of soft stools.
> I spend more time fretting and researching my dogs, cats and horses feeds than I ever did my own.


"Organic" salmon oil? Trying to figure out how wild salmon can possibly be certified "organic." That would be a label meaning nothing, IMHO. Farmed fish oil, OTOH, I would not use. 

But anyway, in what way did it not work well? Did you suspect it as part of the diarrhea issue?


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## Terry Berns

I'm sure that the organic on the label merely meant that it was wild caught vs. farm raised and not processed or preserved with chemicals. 
Both dogs were on salmon oil and natural Vitamin E (not synthetic) yet both dog's coats were dull looking, lacked shine although still soft. 
Good quote, Maren, and "ignorance is bliss"....agreed.


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## Connie Sutherland

Terry Berns said:


> I'm sure that the organic on the label merely meant that it was wild caught vs. farm raised and not processed or preserved with chemicals.
> Both dogs were on salmon oil and natural Vitamin E (not synthetic) yet both dog's coats were dull looking, lacked shine although still soft.
> Good quote, Maren, and "ignorance is bliss"....agreed.


I am suspicious of a fish oil that touts itself as "organic."

But anyway ..... coat aside, I think dogs need long-chain 3s, and I would even venture to guess that on a dose of a gram of fish oil (not a combo oil) to ten pounds of dog, the coat of a healthy dog is unlikely to be dull-looking.

Most important is the anti-inflammation benefits of long-chain 3s and the fact that there are very few modern diets that supply sufficient long-chain 3s (the way they were supplied in the flesh and fat of wild prey and pasture-raised slaughter meats). The mechanism in humans that converts shorter-chain 3s to EPA and DHA (which even in humans is very inefficient) is extremely limited in dogs. In humans if we average the source EFAs and the long-chain conversion results, it's about 5 to 15% rate. In dogs it's very close to zero.

Dogs need their long-chain 3s to come "as is."


JMO!


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## Hunter Allred

orijin, evo, instinct for dry foods, mixed with raw chicken, turkey, fish, beef, lamb, rabbit meat, bones, & organs, lots of tripe. some eggs sometimes


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## Laura Bollschweiler

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Ah Abady...I think which can be summarized in the following quote by Mark Twain:


I really have no idea what that quote means in regard to Abady, but I do know when I had a source, I'd feed Abady when I forgot to thaw out raw, and my dog did fine with it. A whole group of us fed it, and some used it as their primary food with raw on the side. All the dogs but one that I can think of (not an easy keeper on anything) did really well on Abady. 

Laura


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## Maren Bell Jones

Whether or not individual dogs can do fine on individual foods is not really my issue (there are even some dogs that do sort of okay on Ol' Roy, crazy enough). One of the first things I'll say about nutrition in dogs is there is no one perfect diet perfect for all dogs. But his...err... "articles" on his website contain multiple things that are conjecture and some which are just plain wrong.


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## Terry Berns

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Whether or not individual dogs can do fine on individual foods is not really my issue (there are even some dogs that do sort of okay on Ol' Roy, crazy enough). One of the first things I'll say about nutrition in dogs is there is no one perfect diet perfect for all dogs. But his...err... "articles" on his website contain multiple things that are conjecture and some which are just plain wrong.


That's what I thought too, Maren. His claim that feeding Abady would prevent Hip Dysplasia is totally ridiculous. That is what has kept me on the fence for so long even though my dogs have done so well on it. 

I've tried the raw diet several times, my Aussie loved it but my Rottie didn't want to touch it. He won't even eat a raw piece of filet mignon! I had a great contact for fresh chicken parts at a nearby butcher. We tried chicken backs, legs, necks, organs, etc. The butcher even tried grounding it all up for me, bones included, into nice 1lb patties...nope...he wouldn't eat it.


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## Laura Bollschweiler

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Whether or not individual dogs can do fine on individual foods is not really my issue (there are even some dogs that do sort of okay on Ol' Roy, crazy enough). One of the first things I'll say about nutrition in dogs is there is no one perfect diet perfect for all dogs. But his...err... "articles" on his website contain multiple things that are conjecture and some which are just plain wrong.


Never looked at his web site. I think if you're feeding whatever and your dog looks and does good, there ya go. As far as Abady, I only have experience with seeing several sport dogs that do well on it. 

Laura


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## Maren Bell Jones

Terry Berns said:


> That's what I thought too, Maren. His claim that feeding Abady would prevent Hip Dysplasia is totally ridiculous. That is what has kept me on the fence for so long even though my dogs have done so well on it.


That was my feeling too. Dogs as carnivorous omnivores (not as only carnivores as his website wrongly states) are very adaptable in what they can do well on (commercial kibble, raw, or cooked or home prepared raw or cooked) and I don't typically see those diets claiming they will prevent all hip dysplasia. Would Abady be prepared to pay $3500 for each hip for a total hip replacement if a dog fed their foods came up with hip dysplasia?











> I've tried the raw diet several times, my Aussie loved it but my Rottie didn't want to touch it. He won't even eat a raw piece of filet mignon! I had a great contact for fresh chicken parts at a nearby butcher. We tried chicken backs, legs, necks, organs, etc. The butcher even tried grounding it all up for me, bones included, into nice 1lb patties...nope...he wouldn't eat it.


If you ground the patties and cooked them (microwave, stove, grill), would your Rottie eat it?


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## Matt Grosch

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Never looked at his web site. I think if you're feeding whatever and your dog looks and does good, there ya go. As far as Abady, I only have experience with seeing several sport dogs that do well on it.
> 
> Laura




disagree....if some model does well on cigarettes and coffee, or if some skinny muscular guy just eats fast food, its still terrible


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## Hunter Allred

Matt Grosch said:


> disagree....if some model does well on cigarettes and coffee, or if some skinny muscular guy just eats fast food, its still terrible


I agree here... I've known healthy dogs that ate ol'roy... but they'd have been better on real food


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## Maren Bell Jones

Very true, Matt. Yeah, I've seen patients who come in for wellness exams and whatnot and I think "these dogs look pretty good..." and I ask what they feed. I hear stuff like "Ol' Roy, but sometimes I splurge and let him have the wet Beneful stuff." #-o And I've seen dogs come in on really good, high priced diets like Wellness, EVO, Orijen, etc and they don't look that great...of course, nutrition is not the only reason a dog may not look its best, but in general, good nutrition is good nutrition. I was looking up the prices for Abady and holy smokes, for what it is, it's crazy expensive! Like easily as expensive as Orijen and EVO.


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## Laura Bollschweiler

Matt Grosch said:


> disagree....if some model does well on cigarettes and coffee, or if some skinny muscular guy just eats fast food, its still terrible


Define "does well." Is able to be muscled? Or is super skinny, like a model? 

I guess I don't see the big hype about raw or the big hype about dog food in general. Several working people said they fed brand X for years and have had many dogs do well on it. Others said that particular food was crap. 

I felt the best I've ever felt when I was on Atkins. My friend felt weak while on it. I tried the Zone and felt like crap. I'm guessing not everyone is the same and maybe needs slightly different diets? Maybe dogs are the same.

Now I'm rambling!

Laura


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## Guest

Hunter Allred said:


> I agree here... I've known healthy dogs that ate ol'roy... but they'd have been better on real food


 
How do you know? Unless you have tried a specific food for a length of time, then you can't really speak on it. Everyone as well as dogs body composition is different, some do well on other feeds. Yeah, technically it can look better and be healthier based on ingredients, but doesn't mean the dog wouldn't have the squirts on that food or not do well on it........


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## Hunter Allred

Jody Butler said:


> How do you know? Unless you have tried a specific food for a length of time, then you can't really speak on it. Everyone as well as dogs body composition is different, some do well on other feeds. Yeah, technically it can look better and be healthier based on ingredients, but doesn't mean the dog wouldn't have the squirts on that food or not do well on it........


This is true... I could only speculate how any dog would perform if something had been different. I lack insight into alternate threads of reality unfortunetly. but if we can universally agree all humans would be healthier on a diet of fresh veggies and some meats than a diet of only twinkies and fruit loops, then we can probably agree all dogs would be healthier on a higher quality diet than one mass produced with whatever filler is cheapest on the market and occasionally contains fatal doses of chemicals.


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## Megan Bays

Is anyone feeding Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul on a consistent basis? Thoughts on it?

http://www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com/products/dogs/


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## kerry engels

I am feeding Fit 4 life, it is sold at TSC and seems comparable to TOTW. It sells for bout $18 for 18# he seems to be doing well on it.


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## Trish Campbell

I've fed Solid Gold for years, always been pleased.


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## Terry Berns

Quote by Maren: 
If you ground the patties and cooked them (microwave, stove, grill), would your Rottie eat it?

Maren, I thought about it but the butcher didn't want to separate the meat from the bones so I would of been including cooked chicken bone fragments. I cook chicken, pork and beef for training treats and he loves them so I will be adding more cooked meats to his diet.


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## Connie Sutherland

Trish Campbell said:


> I've fed Solid Gold for years, always been pleased.


Oh, I had forgotten Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. Last time I looked at that label and their G/A, I was pretty impressed.

I have two club friends who are mixing Barking at the Moon (which as I recall is largely fish?) with Chicken Soup for Adults, and I remember checking them both out and then checking what the averages would be for the combo, and we were all satisfied with the mix. They both also buy a third one that they throw a handful in for additional variety -- Wellness Super 5 Mix Chicken Recipe.


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## Dwyras Brown

I used Solid Gold, it was really expensive. But the dog I had at the time couldn't eat most other foods, so I stuck with it. Worked really well for him.


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## julie allen

I would like to do the raw diet, but I work 48 hour shifts sometimes and just can't see it working. I have them on TOTW and For Health now.


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## Gerry Grimwood

julie allen said:


> I work 48 hour shifts sometimes


I bet those last 36 hrs are productive.


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## julie allen

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I bet those last 36 hrs are productive.


LOl yes trying to figure drug doses and how to keep you from dying! Scary really...


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## Nicole Stark

Connie Sutherland said:


> Oh, I had forgotten Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. Last time I looked at that label and their G/A, I was pretty impressed.


It certainly appears that way. Unfortunately, it didn't work out so well with my dog. Constant shedding and Frito funk were the issues, which was stopped in probably two weeks once I moved her over to Taste of the Wild. Her ears are a bit pink now but otherwise it appears to have been a good move. Drinking is in order as well and lessens considerably when I start adding in the fish I caught over the summer.


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## Connie Sutherland

Nicole Stark said:


> It certainly appears that way. Unfortunately, it didn't work out so well with my dog. *Constant shedding and Frito funk were the issues, which was stopped in probably two weeks once I moved her over to Taste of the Wild. * Her ears are a bit pink now but otherwise it appears to have been a good move. Drinking is in order as well and lessens considerably when I start adding in the fish I caught over the summer.



Which TOTW? You may have said, but I'm old. And it's a long thread. And it's 8 a.m. here. And I am out of coffee.

:lol:


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## Nicole Stark

High Prairie.


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