# Dobermans In Law Enforcement?



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I was curious, are there any Dobermans working the street in the US? I know good Dobies are few and far between, but I was wondering if a department would decline a GOOD doberman? Would that be departmental policies that they simply want to have GSD's and Mals? Or would some departments consider a Dobe if the dog was as good as a comparable GSD?


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

i know there are a couple working in CA. Some departments might consider a good dobe, some might not because of public perception, no matter how good the dog is.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

i just saw a rottie in the trial i competed in this past weekend. haven't seen a dobe since the early, mid-90's around here...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

There's a Rottie PSD two towns from me. There's a Dobe in the PD of the city my sister works for (next to Boston).


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Does "Magnum PI" count?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

No, didnt you see the episode where the security specialist evaluated his property and determined that his dogs sucked because they ran at people barking, instead of taking a silent stealth approach????


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I haven't seen a Dobe in years in these parts. I think I've got the only Rottie in the state, but can't swear to it. 

DFrost


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

I did a lot of volunteer work with the VDHA some time back, Vietnam Dog Handlers Association. I met some of the most fascinating people. Some WW2 vets that handled Dobermans in the South Pacific, had amazing stories to tell of their dogs valor. Very tough dogs back then, going into cave on the Islands to route out those last remaining Japanese soldiers that simply would not give up with out dying. 

After talking with them many felt that they bonded so tightly with their handlers that is was not easy for a next soldier to take the dog over with some fighting. The German Shepherd, rebonded alot easier to his next handler. Ultimately, health issues and this distrust of the next handler, was a reason for not using them much afterwards. 

Fascinating stories I could pull up a chair and listen to them talk for a month. I have so much respect for those guys.

Bryan


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

In the late '60's early 70's, the MWD School made an effort to buy Dobermans. They made the effort because of complaints made by Dobe breeders that the military didn't have any. the intial purchase of 25 was made. three of them made it through patrol dog school, one was trained as a dual purpose. The biggest problem with them was health. They were generally nerve bags, and practiced what could only be called self-muilation. I know that from then until my retirement from the dog school in 1988, they never had any more Dobes go through the course.

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> In the late '60's early 70's, the MWD School made an effort to buy Dobermans. They made the effort because of complaints made by Dobe breeders that the military didn't have any. the intial purchase of 25 was made. three of them made it through patrol dog school, one was trained as a dual purpose. The biggest problem with them was health. They were generally nerve bags, and practiced what could only be called self-muilation. I know that from then until my retirement from the dog school in 1988, they never had any more Dobes go through the course.
> 
> DFrost


The nervous kind of biting, licking, tail-chasing stuff?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> The nervous kind of biting, licking, tail-chasing stuff?


Yes ma'am, exactly. i remember one specific dog that chewed his stump bloody raw. 

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The're also known for foot licking, flank sucking!


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

I have to admit that I've not been training much because of school and research commitments this semester, and my dog has started the foot licking. Just laying round the house, licking on his foot  . He doesn't do it much though. I have seen some show dobes develop lick granulomas that cover their entire leg. My mother's dog nearly had to have her leg amputated because of a pseudomonas infection that developed in her lick granuloma. My last showline doberman obsessively mouthed cloth his entire life and ended up dying from complications after having a sock surgically removed from his intestines at eight years old. I might love em, but I won't deny that they do tend to have neuroses.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Amber Scott said:


> I have to admit that I've not been training much because of school and research commitments this semester, and my dog has started the foot licking. Just laying round the house, licking on his foot  . He doesn't do it much though. I have seen some show dobes develop lick granulomas that cover their entire leg. My mother's dog nearly had to have her leg amputated because of a pseudomonas infection that developed in her lick granuloma. My last showline doberman obsessively mouthed cloth his entire life and ended up dying from complications after having a sock surgically removed from his intestines at eight years old. I might love em, but I won't deny that they do tend to have neuroses.


Exercise him. A lot. "Doesn't do it much" -- famous last words.


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

he still gets lots of exercise - in the form of running by the bike around the swamp - but not to bite  which is obviously the only thing that still counts as fun in my household


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

One of my bitches has had this problem for the last 6 years. (Rot)
I tried everything from changing to metal water bowls to changing the detergents we use to clean the floors.

She literally licks and bites the pads off her feet, so she can't even walk after a bout.

It came down to diet, in her complete food biscuits the manufacturer as they often do add synthetic vitamins to give the food nutritional content, I am very aware of the issues around mass produced dog foods.

We changed her diet, and importantly stopped all treats with the exception of raw bones and within weeks the years of misery and stress had ended.
But that worked for us, certainly a starting point.

Mark


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mark Horne said:


> .... She literally licks and bites the pads off her feet, so she can't even walk after a bout. ... We changed her diet, and importantly stopped all treats with the exception of raw bones and within weeks the years of misery and stress had ended. ... Mark


For those who don't want to risk recreational bones (because of teeth issues with dogs who try to crack open a bone like, say, a marrow bone), then microwave training treats can be made very easily from a chicken breast. (White meat is used because then the product is dry enough -- not greasy -- to carry it around.)

But the issue of frustration leading to self-mutilation is a different one from the cycle of itch-scratch-bite-pruritis.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We;ve not had that problem with the one Rottie we have. I feared it would happen, but it hasn't. He was a rescue from Texas, I don't have papers of course, but confirmation wise he's a very good looking dog. I trained him in drugs only. The department was very hesitant about me training him for patrol. Perception, down south all that sort of thing. He's about 95, working weight and really looks good. I hope he doesn't start that stuff though. I've said before, we feed Nutro to all but 3 dogs, and they do very well on it.

DFrost


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Obsessive licking needs to be dealt with asap, by distracting the dog. I have read that the licking causes endorphins {spellings} in the brain to be produced. Basically happy drugs in the body are released and they get a sort of high from it.

Bryan


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Obsessive licking is a form of bad nerves. Hard to really explain, but solid dogs that I have had don't do stupid shit like this. I never had a Rott do it, and some of the ones that I knew that did were not, nor could have been working dogs. I don't think that it is a stress thing, more of an OCD thing. Also tends to vary a lot in degrees of severity.


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

At the present time, I have 4 dobermans, 1 rott, and one boxer and I dont have any licker's. My mom has a bischon though, and she has literally almost licked her foot down to the bone. It is really disgusting.

I didn't know it had to do with nerves, I figured it was just boredom or not enough exercise.


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## Julie Ward (Oct 1, 2007)

I've owned dobermans for 34 years, and shown them for over 20 years so have personally known....geeze, I have no idea how many. I have never had nor have I ever met an obessive licker. Is it more common in the working lines or what?


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

it's more common in the show lines, actually. I don't know that it has anything to do with nerves. At present time, no one knows what causes lick granulomas. Some vets think it's secondary to allergies, but no one knows for sure. All they really know is that once a dog has started, it's pretty hard to get them to stop.  Certain breeds are more prone to it. I've seen it most in dobes and in dalmatians.


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## Julie Ward (Oct 1, 2007)

I've seen in most in goldens (when I was a vet tech). Never seen it in a doberman.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

It can get going from something like an allergy, other kind of hot spot, or anything else that the dog is licking at to soothe it.... a bad cycle if untreated.

And some high-strung dogs or frustrated-energy dogs do it from nervous frustration to the point that a granuloma develops, just like other self-destructive behaviors.

I do believe that tired dogs do it less, even when the trigger is nerves.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Amanda Layne said:


> My mom has a bischon though, and she has literally almost licked her foot down to the bone. It is really disgusting.
> 
> I didn't know it had to do with nerves, I figured it was just boredom or not enough exercise.


That dog might well have an allergy, most of which commonly start with inflamed and itchy paws. If untreated, yes, that's the result: a disaster.

But not enough exercise is definitely another trigger.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

It's another OCD behaviour. Licking, tail chasing, light/shadow chasing. I've seen all of them and it's not fun to watch.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Bryan Colletti said:


> Obsessive licking needs to be dealt with asap, by distracting the dog. I have read that the licking causes endorphins {spellings} in the brain to be produced. Basically happy drugs in the body are released and they get a sort of high from it.
> 
> Bryan


I'd say you are correct, Bryan. Probably very similar to cribbing in horses and bar chewing in pigs (and probably hair twirling, thumb sucking, and nail biting in humans, for that matter). I know cribbing in horses is very difficult to break. I don't necessarily think it's a "nerve" issue per se, but best not to get dogs started on it. In the same vein, as cute as it is in my Mal puppy to chase and bite his tail, not something I'm trying to encourage. Incidentally, my husky/Rottweiler mix loves to lick people, like legs and faces and hands. My husband will allow him to do this :roll: and his eyes will even dilate when he gets into it, especially after he gets done with a work out and is all sweaty. A human salt lick, yuck.


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

So.... all this licking leads to OCD Dobies, which explains their lack of police work?


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Alex Corral said:


> So.... all this licking leads to OCD Dobies, which explains their lack of police work?


 What an interesting question. I would like to know the answer to that question.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alex Corral said:


> So.... all this licking leads to OCD Dobies, which explains their lack of police work?


I consider that a chicken-or-egg question..... CD causes destructive licking or destructive licking triggers OCD......


We have all heard or read of dogs who had no obesssions until some moron played with them extensively with a laser light. 

On the other side of the coin, some breeds (and of course, some individual dogs) seem pre-disposed to nerves and to nervous activity: tail-chasing, licking, fur-plucking, and more.

To add to the mix, Dobes are one of the breeds more prone to allergies than some, and skin pruritis can definitely be a trigger for licking, hot spots, etc. And too many vets "treat" allergies with steroids, daily, forever. This is not only physically very destructive long-term, but many dogs react to Prednisone with hyperactivity and anxiety.


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