# Civilians should not own PPD's



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

How many of you believe or have met a breeder, LEO handler or other dog "pro" who feels that civilians shouldn't own a PPD? 

I had a brief email exchange and phone discussion with a breeder who seemed thoroughly confused as to why any civilian would want or need a PPD. They quizzed me on what might happen to me, civily, if my dog were to bite someone. 

I brought up the usefullness of a PPD in the event "someone kicks in my door". The breeder stated that the dog might buy some time for me to get my gun but that's about it. 

Apparently their theory is that if the PPD dog can't protect one from an armed onslaught then the PPD has no value in home/handler defense. Based on their attitude it became apparent to me that this person did not think much of PPD's or the civilians that own them. Needless to say I didn't think I would want a dog from this breeder after all. 

At the end of our polite conversation they advised me they don't sell dogs to people they don't know and I thanked them for their time and we amicably concluded the call. 

Has anyone else encountered this?


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## David Berraco (Dec 19, 2007)

The individual you spoke to has the right to produce pets and also the right to not sell you a dog. They don't however have the right to impose their ignorant opinion. I personally don't have the patience for those fake ass conversations that end amicably, NOT. The last one I had with a "professional trainer" when I mentioned I have a dog who's purpose is to protect the house and my family, her response was "but who is going to protect him?" I turned my back and walked away without another word.

A large alert dog showing aggression is at the least a strong deterrent. He has a big advantage in the dark and knows the layout of the house better than the intruder. If the dog is decisive he will be fast and he is going to be hard to shoot in close quarters. Shooting a hand gun accurately at a stationary target is not that easy, try it on a smaller closer to the ground fast moving target. The pieces of shit that break into your house also don't usually take the time to go to the range and practice. A good dog can be very effective and give a peace of mind.

I don't mind those ignorant people though and I wouldn't try to educate them. They usually live in their own fantasy world. I like that the crooks have options besides my house to break into.


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## Jose' Abril (Dec 6, 2007)

David Berraco said:


> The individual you spoke to has the right to produce pets and also the right to not sell you a dog. They don't however have the right to impose their ignorant opinion. I personally don't have the patience for those fake ass conversations that end amicably, NOT. The last one I had with a "professional trainer" when I mentioned I have a dog who's purpose is to protect the house and my family, her response was "but who is going to protect him?" I turned my back and walked away without another word.
> 
> A large alert dog showing aggression is at the least a strong deterrent. He has a big advantage in the dark and knows the layout of the house better than the intruder. If the dog is decisive he will be fast and he is going to be hard to shoot in close quarters. Shooting a hand gun accurately at a stationary target is not that easy, try it on a smaller closer to the ground fast moving target. The pieces of shit that break into your house also don't usually take the time to go to the range and practice. A good dog can be very effective and give a peace of mind.
> 
> I don't mind those ignorant people though and I wouldn't try to educate them. They usually live in their own fantasy world. I like that the crooks have options besides my house to break into.


Well said David!!!!


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

This breeder favors a dog that barks and looks tough but who hasn't received any bite training. But if I'm going to get one of those I think I'll just go to the local rescue groups or the dog pound and get me a big dog. Why would I pay them for a dog that's all bark and no bite? Perhaps this breeder feels any old big dog would be more stable than a trained bite dog. It seems to me that untrained dogs bite too. Oh well...scratch them off the list and move on.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I applaud that breeder! It's way to easy to sell a "PPD" to some unsuspecting person, of whom most have no idea what is necessary to handle/work with a PPD.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2007)

Patrick Murray said:


> How many of you believe or have met a breeder, LEO handler or other dog "pro" who feels that civilians shouldn't own a PPD?
> 
> I had a *brief *email exchange and phone discussion with a breeder who *seemed* thoroughly confused as to why any civilian would want or need a PPD. *They quizzed me on what might happen to me, civily, if my dog were to bite someone.*
> 
> ...


What _exactly_ did you encounter?


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

patrick, you might have more success asking a breeder for a sport dog who will "bite for real" and that you intend to title them in some sport. this would be especially true if you're just "cold calling" breeders without any common friends or clients. i would suspect this person wouldn't have such an issue if they knew you. you might run into this same thing again in your quest.


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## David Berraco (Dec 19, 2007)

I think I missed the point with my first post. That "but who is going to protect him" seems to have had a lasting effect.

So you're looking for a protection dog Patrick? What breed? Surely there are people in this forum that know who breeds such dogs and can direct you? Yes there's a lot of resistance out there from the breeders to the idea that you might want to actually make your dog useful. I find that a lot behave like they'd be doing you a favor to sell you the dog. You have to prove yourself worthy to them LOL. I say skip those people. The dogs are usually overpriced and they are selling you a dream. I find that if you look carefully you can find a good dog reasonably priced from a breeder who never got titles on their dogs but you just try to get in their house when they're not home


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

The problem is that most PPD folks are kooks, so breeders are more reluctant to sell a dog to someone that wants a PPD.

Then other breeders will tell you "my dogs can do anything" and just try to sell you whatever they have.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Having just seen the email Patrick sent to the breeder, and the breeders website + videos of her dogs. I am not overly impressed with her or her dogs, and there was nothing in Patricks email to suggest he would do anything with the dog that was any different than what a Schutzhund person would do with their dog. He even mentioned dog sports he has competed in and intends to compete in.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I still wonder what difference it makes to give a dog bite training or not, other than increasing control, knowing how your dog will react, all those little things. What I mean is a dog that 'has it' will bite anyways, won't they? Wouldn't it be more dangerous not to give this kind of dog bite training because how would you know you could control him when he's in that state of mind otherwise?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

A few months ago, we took on a new member to our dog training group. She told me that the girl she was training with did not think it was a good idea to train for K-9 personal protection. The limited amount of hair on my head went up. "WHAT?!" I called this person and asked for more information as she is a well respected agaility trainer in our area.

The bottom line was this person felt that K-9 PPD's are too much for the average homeowner, on that point I had to agree. I also went on to point out that homeowners have another choice, using a gun. I have never met a person in law enforcement who could tell me that it was possible to call back a fired round. The bullet goes out and the "bad guy" goes down. 

Now using a trained PPD is another story. The dog goes out on a bite command and the "bad guy" sees 90# of pearl white teeth clicking at him...suspect prones out and the dog is called off the bite. The dog lives and the dirtball* gets to see another day. I feel strongly on the need for a trained dog and aggressive standing people to speak out against Breed Specific Legislation (BSL).

_*A person who in another stage of life was normal, someone who enjoys taking from hard working folks, a man or woman who in their new found job as a thug will get their up and comings given to them in a most painful way..K-9 Power._


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## David Berraco (Dec 19, 2007)

So what does one need to do to get banned from this joke forum?

Connie, you’re a freakin’ schitzo, I understand this usually happens after menopause.

Bob Scott, you’re a whiny girlie man.

David Frost, Tim Martens, you remind me of that scene in Men in black where J gets selected out of a group state produced automatons.

Mike Schoonbrood, did you start this forum? I guess you did it to learn something, keep going baby!

What all of you have in common that you know shit about dogs, yet you don’t let anyone’s voice but your own be heard.

To the silent majority.. you should speak up. These clowns are nobodies without the stage you provide for them.

BTW Berraco is the Cuban name for triggerfish, one that I like to hunt.

http://aycu30.webshots.com/image/39189/2001532974285302167_rs.jpg

Ciao sapingos.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Did I say this was getting boreing? =D> =D> =D>


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Did I say this was getting boreing? =D> =D> =D>


Yeah, it is boring. I have no burning personal desire to delete his post, since it's pretty character-revealing (and it would be good if anyone who was thinking about having him train their PPD googled him and came across it) ..... but maybe we should dump some of the zillion copies he posted......


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## Yuko Blum (Dec 20, 2007)

David Berraco said:


> David Frost you remind me of that scene in Men in black where J gets selected out of a group state produced automatons.


You sure about that? David Frost is too entertaining... he wouldn't make a believable automaton :-\" :-\" \\/


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Well, that was interesting! David, as a new member to this venue, I'm glad you didn't bust on me... if it is boring than add something positive to it. Everyone has something to offer, if it is presented in a positive manner. Putting it in a format that regular folks can understand is something refreshing. Your post was just that. I vote to leave it and the other posts alone. Variety is the spice of life and if folks can't handle it move on. And yes being banned is the option! No place for poor choices and this was one in my opinion.


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## Hoyt Yang (Dec 26, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Well, that was interesting! David, as a new member to this venue, I'm glad you didn't bust on me... if it is boring than add something positive to it. Everyone has something to offer, if it is presented in a positive manner. Putting it in a format that regular folks can understand is something refreshing. Your post was just that. I vote to leave it and the other posts alone. Variety is the spice of life and if folks can't handle it move on. And yes being banned is the option! No place for poor choices and this was one in my opinion.


Amen to that! =D>


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

There is another side to this..........Only god knows where those peoples grubby hands have been before they asked to "pet" your dog!


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## Hoyt Yang (Dec 26, 2007)

LOL Susan! But I think you intended to post this in the other thread.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh jeez you are so right - yet another senior moment.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

welcome Susan to where ever we are.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

I am a civilian that owns a pp dog. I love being out doors and I live in a safe area, however, I am more comfortable walking with my shepherd than my yorkie. The dicision to purchase a pp dog was not taken lightly. I have a 5yr.old son, other dogs and the responsibility of owning a dog with this type of training. I was very fortunate that the person I purchased the dog from is a responsible trainer. My son was with me when I chose my dog because I wanted to see the dogs reaction to him. The trainer also had me bring my two small dogs to see how they would interact. 

I hope that his skills do not have to be tested. However, it does give me security knowing that he there. If any thing else, he is a dependable walking/running buddy.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Kim stay out of the marsh and you won't need a PPD. :roll:


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Now Howard, that is no way to talk to a puppy!  Besides what would a someone from Delaware know about marsh land? Maybe MY pp dog is trained to fight off alligators!


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

I know of a guy down there that had his dog come up missing. I guess he wasn't trained to fight off alligators. #-o


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Jay, 

Maybe it was a Nutra rat that got to that dog! :lol:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Kim you are a hoot! Stick around and post more. Between you and Jay, I can now sell my TV and watch this stuff! =D>


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I always enjoy hearing from folks who own PPDs and the stories of how some two bit dirtball tried to rob them. "K-9 Fluffy" comes along and hands the bad guy a "coming to Jesus meeting!" Yep, I will fight 100% for my right to carry a gun, own PPDs, and do as I @#* well please...within reason. The real kicker is those little dogs, the ankle biters that chew the hide off you and let you bleed out before you can be medevaced out.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Now Howard, I have two of those little ankle biters. Very yappy little things. There job is to give me time line up my ppd and gun!
There is a place for all breeds. :razz:


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