# Socal (Orange County)



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

I looked and there isnt a thread about my area. There is one for socal but northern LA area... too far with traffic which is pretty much every day around here.

Would love to know of the local clubs in my area. Most of the ones I have contacted are no longer active.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

What type of club/sport are you looking to get into?


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

schutzhund but also any "water" clubs bc I know its great for their joints and I do live minutes from the ocean. Also Agility but not for right now for when he is over a year


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> schutzhund but also any "water" clubs bc I know its great for their joints and I do live minutes from the ocean. Also Agility but not for right now for when he is over a year


Check the SW Region website there are a lot of clubs in So Cal but you might have to drive a bit http://www.southwestschutzhund.com/sw_clubs.htm


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Thanks! I have looked at that website; I was hoping someone could recommend a group also from personal experience.


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> Thanks! I have looked at that website; I was hoping someone could recommend a group also from personal experience.


I would simply visit the clubs to get your own impression. Each club has it's own ideas on training and club structure so what works for one person and their dog may not for another. 

For agility http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=clubs.search

Don't think you have to wait until a year of age to start agility. A good instructor will teach the foundation and groundwork first including: proper timing and placement of rewards, navigation and handling, focus, sit, stay, down, staying with handler on both sides, direction, targeting (hand and object), shaping contacts, jumping exercises without impact and all motivational. I started my latest pup this way and a lot of the exercises have really had a positive influence on her training for schutzhund.


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Terry Fisk said:


> Don't think you have to wait until a year of age to start agility. A good instructor will teach the foundation and groundwork first including: proper timing and placement of rewards, navigation and handling, focus, sit, stay, down, staying with handler on both sides, direction, targeting (hand and object), shaping contacts, jumping exercises without impact and all motivational. I started my latest pup this way and a lot of the exercises have really had a positive influence on her training for schutzhund.


That's good to know. I believe people spoke about in a thread in here about not starting agility till they were a year because their skeletal structure hadn't formed yet. But you bring up some very good points and it's something I will def look into!


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> That's good to know. I believe people spoke about in a thread in here about not starting agility till they were a year because their skeletal structure hadn't formed yet. But you bring up some very good points and it's something I will def look into!


You can do "jumping" exercises without any height, use the uprights and poles on the ground to teach them to go through, foot awareness, directions and crosses. PM me if you find an agility center if you need some input.


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Terry Fisk said:


> I would simply visit the clubs to get your own impression. Each club has it's own ideas on training and club structure so what works for one person and their dog may not for another.
> 
> For agility http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=clubs.search
> 
> Don't think you have to wait until a year of age to start agility. A good instructor will teach the foundation and groundwork first including: proper timing and placement of rewards, navigation and handling, focus, sit, stay, down, staying with handler on both sides, direction, targeting (hand and object), shaping contacts, jumping exercises without impact and all motivational. I started my latest pup this way and a lot of the exercises have really had a positive influence on her training for schutzhund.





Terry Fisk said:


> You can do "jumping" exercises without any height, use the uprights and poles on the ground to teach them to go through, foot awareness, directions and crosses. PM me if you find an agility center if you need some input.


Txs I appreciate the help and I will probably PM you when I have questions


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I think the best thing you can do is visit all the clubs and find out which one is the best fit for you.


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Susan do you know of any not on the website above? I have emailed most of them. Hopefully they will get back to me soon about coming and sitting in on one of their training sessions.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Here is GSDCA-WDA club list (scroll down to the region that applies)
http://www.gsdca-wda.org/clubs.htm

Here is the DVG America club list:
http://www.dvgamerica.com/


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

We recently moved back to Orange County from Chicago and Boston. It seems like pickings for places to work out in Orange County are a little slim...Mimi has reportedly lost her helper and as a result her club doesn't seem to be that active. We tried calling SoCal Working Dog with no response; We did visit Long Beach, which was nice, but a bit of a drive. We found our best time so far with the Ringers in Carson, but again, that was a drive, which we will likely make since they've been so accomodating. 

Is it worthwhile to start up a club in the Orange County Area, and what would the interest be? Or alternately, are there places to train that we haven't found yet? Riverside is a haul! 

Cheers!


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Is it worthwhile to start up a club in the Orange County Area, and what would the interest be? Or alternately, are there places to train that we haven't found yet? Riverside is a haul!
> 
> Cheers!


There are lots of places to train in So Cal but some are not close. We drive about 1.25 hours to our club. I know there are others, not necessarily in our state that drive even further. It just depends on what club fits your needs and time schedule. I've contacted a few clubs to get our dogs out on different fields and helpers, they have all welcomed us but some of the training days just don't fit my schedule :-(

Something to consider when forming a club is who is going to work your dogs? Mimi's club lost their helper and I know a couple other clubs are also having helper problems. If you don't have your own helper it would be better to join a club rather than trying to form your own.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Unfortunately with the traffic in this area, unless you get lucky you are going to be looking at a 1-1.5 hour drive for most clubs. For quite awhile I was driving up to Long Beach to train with my FR club, but depending on the day/time when we headed out it was 2.5-3.5 hours to get there. Now I meet them in Riverside (still over an hour) once a week, and try to make Long Beach once in awhile when my schedule allows. 

I don't know what all there is for Sch clubs in the LA/Long Beach area. I know Al Baneulos does some training in a non-club format out at Victoria Park, you might try contacting him.


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Hey, Lloyd, check your privates! I just sent you a pm. :lol: 

Laura


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Hey, Lloyd, check your privates!


Hey! Family site!









:lol:


----------



## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

So Cal Working dog is getting a good new helper this month . Laura you and Tom better take care of him. I will see you guys at the end of the month, just sent my entry for the seminar.

Regards

Mario


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Hey, Mario!

WE'RE KEEPING IT A SECRET!!!!!

ssshhhhh....

Laura


----------



## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Sharing is caring..LOL


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Terry Fisk said:


> There are lots of places to train in So Cal but some are not close. We drive about 1.25 hours to our club. I know there are others, not necessarily in our state that drive even further. It just depends on what club fits your needs and time schedule. I've contacted a few clubs to get our dogs out on different fields and helpers, they have all welcomed us but some of the training days just don't fit my schedule :-(
> 
> Something to consider when forming a club is who is going to work your dogs? Mimi's club lost their helper and I know a couple other clubs are also having helper problems. If you don't have your own helper it would be better to join a club rather than trying to form your own.


I have felt the same way you have. Unfortunally I know a lot of people travel 1.5+ hours a week to train but I dont know if my sched. permits such a drive 2+ times a week. 
Another member at my work has a few working dogs so hopefully she will help me find someone to train with. 



Mario Fernandez said:


> So Cal Working dog is getting a good new helper this month . Laura you and Tom better take care of him. I will see you guys at the end of the month, just sent my entry for the seminar.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mario


Good to know. thxs


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Mario Fernandez said:


> I will see you guys at the end of the month, just sent my entry for the seminar.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mario


My coworker sent me an email about the seminar =D> I hope I have the days off Id really love to go too!


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

Out of curiosity, how was the Seminar? I saw some pictures and Brenda from our Ringers club seems to have gone. Our schedule didn't permit it...

OC does have a large population, but no one seems to train in Schutzhund in this area as a club save for Mimi in the past it seems - too bad really. As the original poster mentioned, it would be nice not to make a 1.5 hour drive each way a number of days during the week. God knows there are a number of parks, horse fields and more in this neck of the woods, as well as a number of very competent helpers who can help with training on this mix. 

Technically, SoCal Working Dog in Escondido is in San Diego County, not Orange County. Also, being a "newish" club with 2 helpers (per Laura, I think), 2 training helpers (with Chris Fedora as a new helper now formerly from San Jose's Schutzhund), SoCal WDA would have been nice. That said, making the haul to a "closed" club is just not yet for us - we've had some unfortunate experiences with and have grown a little suspicious of closed clubs. We did try contacting Kathy and Tom a number of times and never heard back, save from Laura's PM on this board and a conversation with Michelle, the Regional Director.

A number of us would like to have something regular in Orange County. Perhaps we can also talk with Mimi and keep this as a living thread, or consider starting a new club...thoughts?


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> A number of us would like to have something regular in Orange County. Perhaps we can also talk with Mimi and keep this as a living thread, or consider starting a new club...thoughts?


I think the biggest problem with the OC clubs Orange Co Schutzund Club and Southern Cal in Long Beach (not to be confused with SoCal in Escondido) is that they both lost their helpers. It's hard to form a club or even a training group if you don't have someone with experience to work your dogs. Check with the club contacts directly to get the straight scoop though. The club contacts are on http://www.southwestschutzhund.com/sw_clubs.htm

If you need help contacting clubs and they are not responding let me know. We are trying to keep the contact list current so (as webmaster and SW Region Secretary) I need to know if it a matter of bouncing or no response.


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Out of curiosity, how was the Seminar? I saw some pictures and Brenda from our Ringers club seems to have gone. Our schedule didn't permit it...


The seminar was great, thanks for asking! Maybe next time you can attend. So you belong to the same ring club Brenda does? If you're doing ring, why are you looking for a Schutzhund club?



Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Technically, SoCal Working Dog in Escondido is in San Diego County, not Orange County. Also, being a "newish" club with 2 helpers (per Laura, I think), 2 training helpers (with Chris Fedora as a new helper now formerly from San Jose's Schutzhund), SoCal WDA would have been nice.


His name is actually Chris Fodera. You made him a hat. Strange as you claim to know him.



Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> That said, making the haul to a "closed" club is just not yet for us - we've had some unfortunate experiences with and have grown a little suspicious of closed clubs. We did try contacting Kathy and Tom a number of times and never heard back, save from Laura's PM on this board and a conversation with Michelle, the Regional Director.


Just to set the record straight, Kathy received one email from you. She happened to get it the day her daughter got married. She was a little busy. After I saw your first post regarding getting no response from So Cal, I asked Kathy and she found the email. I guess she just skimmed it and didn't realize what it was you were after. I sent an email to the address she gave me (or maybe Michele did, not sure) and invited you out to our open club night. I never got a response.


I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with closed clubs. We're closed because we can't accomodate more people. It's a fact of life. We have limited time on the field. On our club night, we usually train at a member's house with limited parking. Or we train with another club, and I'm sure they don't want to end at 11:45 p.m., like we did last night during our open club night. Heck, *I* don't want to run that late....but what are our options? Make it another closed night and screw the guests who are just looking for excellent helper work on a nice field? 

Laura


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

Laura, 




Laura Bollschweiler said:


> _The seminar was great, thanks for asking! Maybe next time you can attend._


Would have loved to. Since we just moved here not long ago, weekends are still about unpacking sometimes- so driving too far just becomes a bit hard for us, eating up the entire day.





Laura Bollschweiler said:


> _So you belong to the same ring club Brenda does? _


 
We train in the same club Brenda trains in, SoCal Ringers. Fabulous people, while it's far for us. Leri (who also posts on this board), Adrian, Carlos and Juan could not be a better bunch to train with, and the members are just simply a good bunch of nice people. Not enough good things to say about them individually and as a whole.





Laura Bollschweiler said:


> _If you're doing ring, why are you looking for a Schutzhund club?_


 
You say that like it's a *bad* thing  Is it?


We wouldn't be the first in being curious about and training in several sports. Brenda, as an example, was introduced to us as someone who trains dogs in both disciplines several times a week. I think she belongs to or trains with your club (the distinctions are difficult for me here) and several other Schutzhund clubs, as we understand. Nice lady. I think she mentioned she also trains in another club in Escondido where she was going to ask Chris to help, she trains with the Ringers, she has trained with Al Banuelos, and seems to be a wealth of information on local clubs training what seems to be like almost daily. We're just getting to know her.


To the original question - Why Schutzhund and Ring? Easy. We own 4 dogs, and they have different formal completed training and aptitudes. Academically, though, is obedience that different when training for Schutzhund or Ring? Curious...


2 of our dogs were trained in Schutzhund (not by us, Borina JM, an 8X IPO3 dog / world qualifer/ ZVV2, and Perry Lasmon, a SchH3/FH Dog previously owned by Mike Diehl and trained by Nate Harves). The other 2 dogs are pups we have trained from birth, expecting to train in Schutzhund, but after looking for clubs in a fairly wide geography in SoCal, we have not found as much as we had expected close to us. So, the pups are being trained in Ringsport by the club's invitation, our time investment and the dog's enjoyment. Every trainer we've spent time with seems to think our pups have great aptitude - now if only we could catch up with them, that would be ideal. 


We provided much information about our pups/dogs and ourselves on the emails we wrote to the clubs we wanted to visit, including yours.

Having spent 3 years in Schutzhund and making some great friendships in the sport with some awesome world competitors, we feel a tremendous amount of loyalty to it. We also heard from many people in our time with Schutzhund, some who have been around for a long time, that German Shepherds are rarely seen in Ringsport, if ever - so aside from a scarcity of Ring Clubs where we lived, we simply didn't pursue it nor were educated in it, and can even say that we were discouraged from trying it. 


We spent Christmas at Ivan Balavanov's and Carrie's, and we hung out a number of nights videotaping Ivan working Carrie's Ajax. I guess we can say that Ivan introduced us to Ringsport. If it was up to them, there would be a Mali in every home and we'd have taken 3 back with us.  Watching the two of them work Ajax was really breathtaking. We're looking forward to spending time with them again soon.


It is through SoCal Ringers that we're learning a number of similarities and differences, learning about our pups in the process, and doing the best we can. 


As my partner has never titled a dog in Schutzhund (nor have I), she would like to learn to handle her dog well enough to complete a SchH3 trial...particularly since the dog has done it several times in the form of an IPO3. She would enjoy it as an accomplishment with her dog and enjoy learning with a fully trained and competent dog. From a club standpoint, one would think a handler with a trained dog, a considerable time commitment and a great positive attitude would be a good addition, as we have been to a number of other clubs previously.






Laura Bollschweiler said:


> _His name is actually Chris Fodera. You made him a hat. Strange as you claim to know him._


 
I don't know about a "claim to know him" - sounds awful sinister if I never talked with him  And hopefully the hat will be profitable! Those Marine Corps Covers are certainly no fashion statement 


Fedora, Fodera - sometimes, dyslexia gets even the best of us - hopefully the spelling and grammar Police won't catch us speeding...I am sure you've never misspelled anything, right Laura?  If I had a dollar for everyone who has misspelled my name, whether they knew me or not...I'd be rich 


Chris and I spoke on the phone a number of times before he moved here. He is a Marine, I was a Marine, and since he was moving here I offered to help him - it sucks moving sometimes on a military budget when you have your hands full with wife and baby. We have a fairly huge spare vehicle that could help with the move, and offered to have him use if needed. 





Laura Bollschweiler said:


> _Just to set the record straight, Kathy received one email from you._


 
Sure! That's probably the case. I can't recall if it was a single email. We all get busy! A single email is easy to miss. 


That said, I did try the various contact numbers and email addies for SoCalWDA, including Kathy's Email, and phone a number of times. I did leave 2 separate messages at her home in a span of about a month, including prior to arriving in Socal. I also emailed Tom a copy of the same email at the same time and called him. I also tried him at work by phone while he was there, and left pleasant messages with all. No calls or emails. Frankly, after several weeks of trying, it just seemed fruitless. Sad, since Kathy seems to live in Mission Viejo and we're in Laguna Beach - very close.


So no, the record straight is just simply no response to a number of innocuous contacts from new people who are simply looking for nice people to train with...with no response to date. 


Now - if people *knew* us, and didn't think we were a fit, it's completely understandable - let us insult someone or be creepy *before* not returning our calls  (wait - that's never happened to us! ) . When my partner and I try to contact a club through various means and people don't call back or write back over several tries and methods over many weeks, it's simply odd. The other clubs in the area, however far, just seemed very straight forward - Steve in Long Beach couldn't be more pleasant and we had a nice time meeting their club. Michelle was unbelievably helpful, even though her club is nearly 2 plus hours from us. 


Perhaps a good way to avoid misunderstandings is a simple note on a webpage - example: : "At present membership is close(d)". A similar note is written on the SoCal Ringers site. Still, they emailed and called back.


Now - imagine if I'm a girl who got into Schutzhund after getting a personal protection dog, want to do more, and had the same luck. Imagine if I'm a fully trained and certified USA helper new to the neighborhood and can lend a hand (happy to learn more and my truck is full of equipment). Or someone who wants to learn and is new. Or perhaps someone who loves Schutzhund, and wants to donate time and money to the club. How incredibly hard to join the sport! It would seem somewhat elitist and exclusionary from an untrained eye. If my younger sister tried to join the club, it would be offputting.


I tend to think that regardless of the club and discipline we belong to, we are all ambassadors of the sport - any sport. None of us are gangsta's with bad*ass dawgs trying to get a bite in to protect our 'stash'. With dwindling USA membership numbers, decreasing numbers of helpers (or Abyssmally low numbers of training and active helpers), the "Michael Vick" factor of dog sensationalism, the fear of working dogs in the US in public venues as compared to dog training in Europe, and the greater interest in an internet culture versus a sport like Schutzhund, we would all be trying to grow our ranks and numbers. Paying and active members equal not only more dollars for the sports and our clubs, but also bring in interest in helpers, learning helpers and additional club support. In the short time we've been at SoCal Ringers, we've brought in 2 new people seriously interested in helper work, some others interested in the sport, and more. A club that *appears* unwelcoming (and we did try several times and several people) discourages new blood, which in my opinion is vital. You may disagree in the interest of your own training time, and having visited clubs all over the US, you may be a seeming minority.


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Socal (Orange County) (Continued)*




Laura Bollschweiler said:


> _After I saw your first post regarding getting no response from So Cal, I asked Kathy and she found the email. I guess she just skimmed it and didn't realize what it was you were after_.


 
Oh! So here's the closing line from our email, verbatim: 

*"Your club sounds great, and we'd love to meet you all and enjoy you guys...*

*Can you tell us more about meeting times, places, requirements, fees, etc? "*


Kinda self explanatory. Pretty friendly and innocuous as far as anyone can tell - hard to miss what we're after. 




Laura Bollschweiler said:


> _I sent an email to the address she gave me (or maybe Michele did, not sure) and invited you out to our open club night. I never got a response._


 
It was not until we contacted Michelle, the Regional Director, that we began getting emails in response to our queries - probably pure coincidence. Curiously we also heard from others about this as well, who were not part of my conversation with Michelle- but still not from Kathy or Tom. We were just trying to be guests and show up! Geezus.  


We had heard from other local people in other clubs before and after talking with Michelle that this was the prevailing wind with your club. We hate believing rumors and opinions, so we thought we would reach out directly, multiple times, with no response. Sadly, we still never received a response from either Kathy or Tom. 


I did find your email, lumped with spam - it happens. I did respond to your PM's on this board, but apparently not your email. That said, if it takes a call to a Regional Director to get responses from a club, and the people you emailed never responded in the first place long after their awareness of an email, would that make you feel welcome, even as a guest? 






Laura Bollschweiler said:


> _I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with closed clubs. We're closed because we can't accomodate more people. It's a fact of life. _


 
Particularly with not welcoming new helpers. In other clubs we tend to give people more exercises with more helpers depending on the field. That said, it's not always ideal to train your own dog to take bites from you, the owner - hence we give back and contribute. That's why we looked for a club. It isn't often that we run into truly "private" clubs, but we learn something new all the time.

To answer Terry Fisk's question, I guess technically this was a "no response" to the contact info on the webpage. 

Back to the original poster's question about clubs in Orange County, the question remains. We would love to train in Schutzhund in Orange County, and to help to organize willing helpers, training helpers and interested parties in the neighborhood, and possibly form a new open club. Any persons interested are welcome to contact me. Any guidance from the local Region officers or other experienced local club members and officers is welcome!


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: Socal (Orange County) (Continued)*



Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Any guidance from the local Region officers or other experienced local club members and officers is welcome! [/SIZE]


Michelle should be able to give you assistance in starting a club if you are interested in becoming a UScA club. Better yet, if you are a helper.. work with one of the OC clubs, pool your resources and allow them get them active again.


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

Happy to! Placed a call to Mimi this morning - apparently they were training. 

I guess with a trial coming up, everyone's a little busy. Looking forward to demistifying the local scene, and perhaps meeting a number of the local officers and training directors.

Cheers!


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Happy to! Placed a call to Mimi this morning - apparently they were training.
> 
> I guess with a trial coming up, everyone's a little busy. Looking forward to demistifying the local scene, and perhaps meeting a number of the local officers and training directors.
> 
> Cheers!


The UScA Nationals is coming up next week so lots of folks gearing up to head out of town for the event. The SW Region officers are scattered about So Cal so unless you are willing to drive a bit you are unlikely to meet up with too many of us unless we are at an event. Typically we train at our respective clubs in Riverside, Acton and Lancaster.


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

I received a great call from Chris Fodera this morning - and he wasn't wearing a Fedora  when he called. 

He invited us to attend on Thursday to their open training session, so we're looking forward to meeting them...and the rest of the people in the neighborhood. Still looking forward to having a strong club in OC!!!


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> I received a great call from Chris Fodera this morning - and he wasn't wearing a Fedora  when he called.
> 
> He invited us to attend on Thursday to their open training session, so we're looking forward to meeting them...and the rest of the people in the neighborhood. Still looking forward to having a strong club in OC!!!


Cool! I'm glad he got in touch with you. Obedience is from 6:00 to 7:00 and then protection starts. 

See you Thursday!

Laura
P.S. I do misspell words....in fact, I had a misspelling in my previous post  Oh, the horror!


----------



## Brenda Arao (Nov 2, 2008)

I just joined this discussion board this weekend....I heard that Lloyd was dropping my name and I wanted to clear up things that were being said about SCWDA and some of their members, my training and maybe change the flavor from complaining about a club in a different county to enhancing a club in one's own county. Lloyd, I hope you read this.

-First off, if Mimi needs a helper....and if you're in the area and experienced, then please offer your assistance to their club! Mimi is a friend of mine, who I respect very much. Her facility is pristine and her hospitality outstanding. She has always had a nice club, but if you want hers to be the best in OC, then offer your assistance and make it happen! That would be great for Mimi.
-If your are a schutzhund helper, and you are talking about USA Clubs, then don't forget, NCSC is hosting a helper certification seminar in Escondido on Nov. 16. (Go to the SchH USA Website for more details)
-SCWDA is a closed club. They have a waiting list and they are full. The parking lot cannot accommodate any more cars on Monday nights and they aren't supposed to train any later than 10pm (neighbors will complain). If Laura or Kathy responded to your emails, and you accused them of not responding, and suddenly you've discovered their emails....please apologize for your mistake... 
-Yes, I train with several clubs and I do both French Ring and Schutzhund....but not with the same dog at the same time. All of the helpers and decoys would have to be okay with the fact that I was crosstraining with different people/dogs and they would all have to be on the same page with the training. It's just not possible in my situation. I do SchH w/a GSD w/SCWDA, NCSC and Al Banuelos. Al is on the same page as Tom R. But, as of late, I haven't been able to work w/Al....my drive is 85 miles just one way to see Al, and I already drive 500 miles a week to train dogs. (Sometimes, you have to travel far to train, and I won't complain about it if the training is worth it). One of my malinois is SchH3, IPO3 and I would love to continue doing it, but I also wanted to learn about Ring, so I had to stop SchH. He only works in Ring w/Adrian only. 
I guess, if you had one decoy/helper that did both sports, then it could be possible...like Michael Ellis..but that's too far for even me to drive!
Lloyd, see you this Wed & Thursday nights!


----------

