# Body Language/Hand Signals



## Ren Sauder (Apr 5, 2007)

I completely lost my voice Saturday morning and still havent found it today. Too much clubbing I guess...but anyways something I have found extremely facinating to observe is how my lack of voice does not effect my ability to control my dogs. I work with voice-only and gesture-only commands all the time to keep them enforced but it goes beyond that. I'm able to control where my dogs move with just body language. I know this happens daily already but the absence of my voice simply has made me more aware of it. If I want them to move away in a certain direction I just place my body square to them and drive them out in the direction I want them to go while also sending them out with a sweep of my hand. If I want them to come in closer (not a formal come, just an invitation to join me) I turn my shoulder to them, drop my shoulders slightly and pat my leg. There are so many examples but I won;t bore you with them LOL I just find it so intrigueing to see their positive reactions to my body language and having absolutely no quelms about my lack of voice. I gotta say though, working on the voice-less commands (gesture-only) has also helped a lot too.

Has anybody else noticd this with their dog(s) or gone through the same thing of being voiceless for more than a day?? Share your experiences!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Our body language is much more important to our dogs then verbal. Just turn you back on your dog and give it a few commands. Most will just stare at you with a WTF look on their faces. That simple, different view of you can throw many dogs. This is also a good way to proof your verbal commands.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

give us more examples of using body-language alone. i find this fascinating (just as with horses), and i'll never forget the first time i realized my dog REALLY read my non-verbal language: i looked at a ball he wanted me to throw for him but it was too far away to reach, looked at him/the ball/then the floor at my feet. he brought it to me!!! i didn't move anything but my eyes.

i was thinking about this last week: horses will move INTO pressure, and this can be used very effectively in training, but they are prey animals. i wonder (think) that dogs tend to move AWAY from pressure--surely someone has noticed/utilized this in training--any USEFUL links that anyone knows of?

i just think it would be a learning experience for me to go w/out voice for a while just to become more aware of my own body language and to utilize it more effectively. peace and quiet are wonderful things


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## Ren Sauder (Apr 5, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Our body language is much more important to our dogs then verbal. Just turn you back on your dog and give it a few commands. Most will just stare at you with a WTF look on their faces. That simple, different view of you can throw many dogs. This is also a good way to proof your verbal commands.


Yes that is what I meant by "verbal-only training. I don't do it with Ronan as his obedience (or shall I say, willingness to be trained) isnt advanced enough for it to be fun for him but I do it with OC. I will lie on the floor or hide under a blanket with just one eye poking out so I can see him and give commands. I have also done it from different levels in the house (me upstairs and him in the kitchen for example). Pretty neat!


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## Ren Sauder (Apr 5, 2007)

ann freier said:


> give us more examples of using body-language alone. i find this fascinating (just as with horses), and i'll never forget the first time i realized my dog REALLY read my non-verbal language: i looked at a ball he wanted me to throw for him but it was too far away to reach, looked at him/the ball/then the floor at my feet. he brought it to me!!! i didn't move anything but my eyes.
> 
> i was thinking about this last week: horses will move INTO pressure, and this can be used very effectively in training, but they are prey animals. i wonder (think) that dogs tend to move AWAY from pressure--surely someone has noticed/utilized this in training--any USEFUL links that anyone knows of?
> 
> i just think it would be a learning experience for me to go w/out voice for a while just to become more aware of my own body language and to utilize it more effectively. peace and quiet are wonderful things


Ann, that example with your dog is pretty cool!!! that's how I am currently working on teaching OC how to retrieve certain toys. I tell him "go get the ____" then I look directly at the toy. he follows my gaze to see which toy I am looking at. if he thinks he knows he will pounce on it. if i say "yes!" he knows he picked the right toy but if I say "ah! ah!" he knows he's picked wrong and will pounce on another toy.

Yes i use body language a lot when working with horses as well. most of the horses I used to work with were rescues with no training or strong fear (sometimes both). Body language was key in controling these horses. I did a lot of round pen work with these guys. i would push them away with body language making them run around the pen. i would keep pushing until they began sending me calming signals (focusing an ear on me, licking lips, lowering head) and that's when I would turn away with my eyes averted. If the horses were ready they would come join in the middle of the ring where I would pat their head and maybe offer a treat. If they stayed away I would drive them out again. That would always be the first step in bonding with a new horse to gain trust. worked great and it was all done with body language! Some of the horses were so sensitive to subtle movements that if I turned my head slightly to the side after I had invited them to join me and they were on their way over, they would stop dead until either I looked away again or I turned around which would drive them back out.

I highly recommend getting the book "How to Speak Dog" by Stanley Coren. It really goes indepth on dog communication and a big section of it is on body language. It includes studies that have been done and examples of how some people thought they had an intelligent dog trained to do spectacular things when in reality they just had a dog that could pick up very subtle cues the handler was giving them. For example one dog appeared to be smart enough to pick out a hat of a specific colour in the audience to bring back to his master. Upon closer inspection the dog was trained the same way I talked about how I am training OC above. The handler would look at a hat in the audience that fit the description and the dog would follow his gaze to find the hat he wanted.

Here are two more exampled from today I have posted on another forum:

alright another example for you LOL This is day 3 now with no voice (its getting better now though, I can croak out a few words at a time, it just sounds like a 12 year old boy going through puberty). Its raining out so I gave the dogs a kong to work on before doing some obedience/play with OC and his favourite toy. I had the dogs in a sit/stay while I placed the two kongs on each mat. Ronan stood up and went to sneak over to one behind my back. I turned and faced him straight on and took a quick step in his direction. he took a step back and sat again. I backed off and went over to scratch his ears as well as OC's for maintaining the sit/stay. My release for the dogs is "free" but when I tried to say it nothing came out so instead I waved each hand in the direction of each kong. The dogs were slightly confused at first and each took a timid step towards the kongs. I smiled and waved my hands again and then they fully understood and went to their kongs.

Later on today I had a person come to the door. As I explained in another thread our routine for the door is the dog's escort me to the door. I'll open the door and depending on who it is I let the dogs stay with me at the door or I send them to the kitchen where they must remain unless released. So anyways they went to the door with me and I opened it up immediately recognizing a friend of my parent's. I motioned her to hang on one second and turned to the dogs. I took a step towards the kicthen (not towards them as they were beside me) and waved my hand in the direction of the kitchen. Sure enough immediately after two fuzzy husky bums were trotting to the kitchen.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i'll check into that book ren. anyone else have any fav "body language" books?

i know that a lot of work's been done in working w/dogs simply thru hand signals that are introduced along w/verbal cues, then the verbal cues are phased out. and i would think that in trialing dogs, the non-verbal cues would have to be VERY subtle or the team gets docked for handler help, which brings me to the question: do the really good ppl simply use such subtle cues that they're not noticable? or what?

i think it might be interesting to have a Sch title gained completely withOUT verbal commands....


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## Cadence Nakashima (Oct 6, 2007)

Hey Ren!  Seems like us dog people travel in small circles on internet forums huh?

I'm gonna be pestering you here for tips once we get some snow down here 

I use yielding a lot myself, just because around a year ago, when Roxy and I went through some issues, yielding was a great, non physical way for me to "control" and "demand" respect from Roxy.

I think one of the most simplest gestures that we've been working on is smiling with Roxy believe it or not! ROFL! We've pretty much cured Roxy's issues with the SFE by using her prey drive as a distraction. Now that it's been done over and over again, we need to the up the criteria from me running backwards and praising to just a smile to let her know that the reward is coming soon. It's amazing how they can understand something as small as a sly grin.

I "make eyes" a lot with my dogs too. Today, both of the dogs were being walked by niece and nephew, they feel like their doing a big job.. Anyways, sometimes they would both start side tracking towards me, the just love the way I handle myself  ROFL!  All I would have to do, is just look at them, then at the kids, and they would go back into heel with the kids. No verbal or even any movement of my hands, so the kids of course had no idea and they felt even better! Ha ha!


And then there' all the body language that I don't even know I do, but I must because my dog's can read me like a book and I don't even know what I'm doing for them to understand. Maybe there's a different way I put on my sweater when I'm putting it on to leave the house, then when I'm just putting it on because I'm cold, but they know the difference!! ROFL

Or the super odd stuff, like when I grab the keys to the truck (just to grab something) and they KNOW that I'm not leaving for good and don't crowd the door asking to come.

I guess that's sort of off topic, but I don't really have an explanation as to what I do, to get that reaction from them, but I think it's neat nonethless!


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I see a lot of people screaming commands to their dogs. I believe that's unecessary and silly. I whisper most commands to my dogs and they understand just fine.


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## Ren Sauder (Apr 5, 2007)

Ann that's interesting because I find I train using body language to manipulate a dog into the position I want him in and then add the verbal cue. So in a sense I am training using body language first and adding the verbal cue with the fact that every time the dog heard "sit" from me and placed his butt on the ground he got rewarded! So he hears the command, places his butt down and Voila! reward! LOL

RE: people trialing their dogs, the body cues could even be so subtle that they themselves dont notice they do it! I forget if I mentioned this on this forum or another one but a lot of people tend to tip their upper body forward ever so slightly when they ask a dog to sit. I have even caught myself doing it a couple times! oops! The true test to see if your dog is reliant on body language when verbal commands are given (ie, he looks for those very subtle cues when you are not useing hand gestres) is to lie flat on your back with your arms crossed across your chest (like immitating a vampire) and your eyes closed. Say the command to your dog just like you would in a normal every day setting. If your dog follows through, you know he can take independently verbal commands. If he starts getting confused and begins sniffing you or acting goofy (often due to confusion) then chances are very high that he is reliant on subtle body cues. Another test is to hide in a room and give the dog a command. Of course for this one you will need a spotter to see if the dog does it or not. If the dog just starts looking for you instead of following the command, chances are, he is confused and unsure of the command. Of course these tests aren't absolute, after all if the dog is "iffy" on a command as is, when he acts confused it could just be he doesnt understand the command itself rather than its method of delivery, if that makes sense.

Cadence, great to see you here! This is an awesome forum with extremely knowledgeable people!!! And as always I will be more than willing to help with your sledding questions  Glad to hear Roxy's SFE has come along so nicely!!! How's Hades doing?

What you taked about with your dogs knowing the difference between putting a sweater on to go out and putting a sweater on cause you're cold I have noticed in my guys too. They can tell the difference between when I put my shoes on to put them in the kennel and when I put my shoes on to go for a walk (they are the same shoes and they are put on in the same spot)

Lyn, I see that most the few times I go to the dog park. Everyone is yelling at their dogs and not getting a single positive reaction in return. I find it funny how people continue to execute the same method over and over (yelling at the dog) and expecting a different result each time (the dog actually obeying). Another time I see this a lot is when owners have dogs that bark a lot. They just constantly yell "shut-up" to the dogs as if magically, one of these times will actually work!


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## Cadence Nakashima (Oct 6, 2007)

Hades is doing fantastic! We just started with scented articles a few weeks ago, and the little bugger has proven to me that he in fact DOES have brain to do stuff that's a bit more challenging! 

Leaning forward is a good one. Another one we work on a lot, is looking at your dog for auto sits during heeling. I do it ALL the time, and I've never really noticed it. Your heeling along, head up, looking straight ahead, the judge says "halt!", you stop, then look at your dog! ROFL!

It's so funny to see how a large number of seasoned obedience trialers some even with otch's, won't sit if the handler doesn't look at them!

Off topic, but so far this forum seems amazing! I've become deeply in love with the thought of getting into PP, but I know it's always good to get up on the terminology and general ideas for jumping in feet first 

I'm determined to get Roxy out there. I think it's something we both would really enjoy doing together seeing as the princess won't pull for me! ARG! 

We'll have to hook up, so Hades can have a chance at running with some other dogs  Wouldn't that be a funny sight, Ronan, OC, the husky boys with a pitbull in his winter jacket? LMAO!


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## Ren Sauder (Apr 5, 2007)

OMG, Hades and BRAIN together in the same sentence??? LOL I love that goof ball of yours!

HAHA I look at my dog for an "auto sit" too!!! Not that I intended it to be thier cue but I want to make sure they are sitting and how else can I tell if I dont look at them?? LOL

You are more than welcome to hook up Hades with the Husky boys anytime you feel like going for a bit of a drive LOL I have been having a friend coming over with her three Huskies as well so we have been running 5 together. All dogs get along great and there is no agression issues with eachother. We will have to introduce Hades and Ronan slowly if we want positive interaction while loose OR we can skip the step and only have them together when hooked up to run (Ronan will tolerate being with any dog he might despise if it means running!)

Uf! I'm hijacking my own thread! LOL

Back on topic, at obedience trials do you get docked for that cue of looking at your dog for an auto sit?? Or is it something that gets over-looked? Do they often catch subtle cues?


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## Cadence Nakashima (Oct 6, 2007)

That was part of the discussion along with the looking-sit excercise. lol.

I guess it's overlooked all the time, unless it's painfully clear that your dog isn't making any effort to sit until you look at them. Most of the time it happens all at once, the judge says "halt", you stop and look at your dog in a split second and he's sitting.

There's also nothing exactly in the rule books about having to keep your head up and shoulders straight, my trainer says it was an "unwritten" rule up until about a decade ago when obedience trialing became more popular.

My trainer had the top Soft Coated Wheaton Terrier in obedience in '95 I think... And she said around that time, if you were heeling sloppily, with your head down looking at your dog you failed. Now most, aren't as a strict.

You'll see utility dogs going with their handlers who still use ridiculously large sweeping motions for finishes. Even worse they're in B class! LOL

Because my trainers been doing it so long, she's seen all the tricks! She never used them, but she's seen them trained and used in the ring.

Things like dogs who are about to break sit/down stays taught the cue that crossing your arms is a correction so they buckle right back down! ROFL!

Or a slight raise of the foot for a straighter front. I've seen a woman at my school doing this in a utility class. The dog comes in crooked, she brings her leg up and gives him a kick in the side the straighten out! One that I saw a lot for the drop was an ever so subtle shift of the foot. I've seen that one trained as well. They yell "DOWN!" and stomp their foot as if they're going to run toward the dog to correct. Then they just phase it out unti it's not really noticeable.

If a judge picks up on any of those cues, they should be all rights be disqualified for a double command.

ps - I am being forced into giving more credit for his IQ. LMAO!! I called the poor thing slow almost all his life and now he's making me eat my words. I guess he's just a late bloomer  I've seen the way your boys get all nutso when the harness' come out! Ha ha! Hades is the exact same way, just instead of the sharp barking, it's the "pittie chirp"! Ha ha!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

ann freier said:


> i'll check into that book ren. anyone else have any fav "body language" books?


For how dogs relate to each other, Brenda Aloff's _Canine Body Language: A Photographic Guide_ is very interesting.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

thanks maren


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