# Time off from formal protection training



## kevin holford (Apr 11, 2009)

How long have you taken off from protection training for whatever reason? reason? Once you started back up did you see a decline in performance? How long did it take to get back if there was a decline? I'm speaking only of dogs with a good foundation, not in the foundation steps.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I've been doing Sch. with my Mali for about three years, but I have had off and on soundness problems with him in bitework since I started so I've taken a break to try to let him heal a few times. His foundation was never really good, but he bites, though he tends to bite shallow. Hard to tell if this is because of the foundation or because of the soundness issues.

This year I realized he wasn't ever going to be ok and stopped working him in schutzhund so I could focus on my DS. I've done no bitework with him, but a couple of weeks ago I brought him out at the club to give our helper another (somewhat) experienced dog to work with and practice something he wanted to work on. I am biased, because I think my dog is awesome... but my dog did really well. The control was there, the intensity was there, he did everything he was supposed to and a bit more than he has done before.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

kevin holford said:


> How long have you taken off from protection training for whatever reason? reason? Once you started back up did you see a decline in performance? How long did it take to get back if there was a decline? I'm speaking only of dogs with a good foundation, not in the foundation steps.


My PPD is now 11 and I haven't done any real work with him in probably 5 years but, no, he is as willing as ever to confront and bite just as he was before. 

I've told a couple of my buds that he's sorta like George Foreman. George ain't gonna win any heavy titles anymore but he can still knock you the blank out!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I've taken breaks at various times with different dogs. Kita hasn't trained since last December, we took a break because of the politics/BS in French Ring. I considered switching her to a different sport, and then she injured her cruciate so ... Still in the recovery stage on that.

Judging by her obedience, a lot of my control has gone out the window LOL I'm not sure if it's funny or frustrating watching a dog who has won regional and national championships act like they have never heard the word "come" before in their life. What I don't expect though, based on past experience, is for her to have actuall forgotten anything she was taught. Just that if we ever get back to training she will need a refresher course in the control, and a little polishing to clean things up again, but we won't have to start back at square one.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

How about taking time off from foundation bitework with a 6 months old pup? 

I've been doing that with my pup... Just showing the rag, tug and no bite... lol Instead taking it to swim, walks in the woods, city, etc.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

dogs are opportunistic and might get rusty or a bit lazy if they are allowed to slack a bit, but i think a properly proofed behavior becomes an automatic response a dog performs without even giving it a second thought. or to put it another way, it becomes a "habit" that would be hard to break. thorough proofing makes it such a conditioned response that the dog responds without thinking about it

- i think most good owners continue to proof throughout a dog's lifetime and if they don't things can only get sloppy, never better, no matter what it is trained for

- but i worked with a golden that had been sent to a mega buck training regimen in tokyo for comp OB and used to watch it with the owners in their backyard from where i lived - very impressive stuff. but there was a death in the family and other major problems and the dog got neglected......within six-seven months and about 10kg overweight, it was back to being a leash puller and excavator, and had to start from scratch ... at age seven..... i could never get it back as sharp as it was, but that was probably just my fault


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## Chris Jones II (Mar 20, 2011)

This weekend I took my first suit bites from a dog that was coming off 12 weeks of doing zilcho from an injury. From what the guys were saying and the "wtf's" being whispered the dog improved significantly. Actually the dog did a 180. From all accounts the dog went from chewy, pulling and overall mediocre to clean, deep pushing bites. The dog had a couple of similar stretches of time with no work being done and nothing like this happened. The dog always came out looking flat and weak. "It was like the dog woke up from a two f**in year long drug induced stupor or something." So much for foundation bitework. 

anyone ever see this kind of thing?


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Work with my dog has always been here and there, even as a pup, but he always went right back to where we ended or showed even stronger, maybe due to age or boredome. Last time it was all winter off, right now it has been a year. I have no doubt he will pick right back up like we didn't miss a beat. He's going on 5yrs old now so I don't expect him to suddenly forget anything or lose intensity.


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## Carolyn Herle (Dec 29, 2009)

Kevin,
From NAWBA at the end of Oct 2011, Alkemi did not do any protection work until this July. The winter roads sucked and then she had her pups.
She has had four protection sessions now and I have better control than when we stopped in the fall. The layoff did not hurt; it probably helped but then she is a 5 year old dog.
It has been harder to get her obedience back to the level I want.

Carolyn


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

The dog hasn't had a bite since early June, been too hot in Texas.

That is, a bite in "training environment".

During the training lull he caught 4 possums, 3 armadillos and almost a squirrel. It was a catch and release, just like fishing! since I was with him at all times.

I'll report to the second part of your question about the decline once the training resumes again. I don't think there will be much decline, as I keep him in shape when not formally training and he remembers stuff from the foundation instantly, like it was yesterday.

Interested to read other responses too.




kevin holford said:


> How long have you taken off from protection training for whatever reason? reason? Once you started back up did you see a decline in performance? How long did it take to get back if there was a decline? I'm speaking only of dogs with a good foundation, not in the foundation steps.


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## Michael Kelley (Aug 10, 2011)

Chris Jones II said:


> This weekend I took my first suit bites from a dog that was coming off 12 weeks of doing zilcho from an injury. From what the guys were saying and the "wtf's" being whispered the dog improved significantly. Actually the dog did a 180. From all accounts the dog went from chewy, pulling and overall mediocre to clean, deep pushing bites. The dog had a couple of similar stretches of time with no work being done and nothing like this happened. The dog always came out looking flat and weak. "It was like the dog woke up from a two f**in year long drug induced stupor or something." So much for foundation bitework.
> 
> anyone ever see this kind of thing?


 
That sounds like maturity in the work to me. I think to often we all forget we dont need to teach a dog how to bite. They either bite and love to bite or they dont period end of story everything else is BS we use to make ourselves feel better about a dog that is just mediocre at best. Foundation bite work should be about teaching the exercises and the way to bite not thinking you can created a bad ass biting dog that is either had or not had. Example ring sports and apprehensions targeting items and correct form should be the foundations reviewed and taught early. As for how the dog bites shallow, chewy, deep etc is the genetics of the dog. I think in the U.S. their are far too many people trying to make their dogs better than they are. As a decoy I hate the type of dog you have to beg to bite either well or at all for that matter. Too many people always think their dog is a superstar or it should act like their dame or sire and too often its just not the case. Maturity definitely plays a large roll in how the dog brings the fight and bite to the work. Sport dogs are taught in prey and some do well in that drive alone but I still feel no dog bits better than a mature dog that works in balanced drives of prey and aggression. Again just my .02 cents


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