# Starter Guns



## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Broke my NEF starter gun. Now I got to get another one. Which one is the best? Id like one that lasts longer than a year. It needs to shoot .22 also.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Kevin and I bought the Gun-X it is not available in .22 though if you can do with a .209 or .32 they are the best. http://www.gunxusa.com/GunX/Home.html We bought ours from John Apostolis at Canadian Gun Dog supply he has Alfa .22 in stock though I don't know a lot about the Alfa http://www.canadiangundogsupply.com/ALFA


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

http://www.8mmblankgun.com/proddetail.php?prod=38-650 We have used some of these for years, and if you keep them clean they do well. 





Check around. These guys have different caliber blanks. If not, just buy a 12 shot 22 pistol.


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## eric squires (Oct 16, 2008)

I would go for the one that uses 209 primers. They are a lot cheaper to shoot.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Just buy a gun and shoot blanks out of it.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I use a .38 and load my own blanks for a cost of about $2 a box. Much cheaper and I get some quality "me" time.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We use .38's as well. I sign out guns that have been seized and awared to the department. 

DFrost


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I live in Canada. Pistols are evil up here. You cant shoot them unless on a range.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Kimar makes a decent little gun..

Not loud as a .38 or 8mm blank, but decent quality, and uses .209 shot shell primers..which are still fairly cheap...can get boxes of 100 for a few dollars on sale...

Bass Pro Shops, and Gander Mountain sell them. Can be found online as well.. cost "should" be in the 60-80 dollar range.

Louder than a 22 crimp blank, or longer 22 store bought blank. 

Nice sturdy gun that will not fall apart if it gets tossed on the ground a few times LOL...


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

had a kimar it lasted a couple years thats it. 

Howard how do you load your blanks? What do you use to plug the gun powder off?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I reload for just about every firearm I own. In this case I just prime a case and charge it with powder (weight of charge changes the report...generally 5 to 8 grains). I have a plug cutter which is made of tubular steel for woodworking/leather work. I use heavy corogated cardboard as the plug which is punched out with the plug cutter. A hammer and plug cutter will cut you a crapload in about 20 minutes. If the plugs seemed the slightest bit loose I'll seal them in with one drop of candle wax. The discharge generally destroys the plug/wax for the most part so that it doesn't become a projectile. Of course, safe gun handling should always be in mind to prevent any accident be it powder burn, cardboard/wax strike, or hearing loss.

Remember....even if you flip a booger at 800 fps it'll hurt like hell. Always be safe.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> I reload for just about every firearm I own. In this case I just prime a case and charge it with powder (weight of charge changes the report...generally 5 to 8 grains). I have a plug cutter which is made of tubular steel for woodworking/leather work. I use heavy corogated cardboard as the plug which is punched out with the plug cutter. A hammer and plug cutter will cut you a crapload in about 20 minutes. If the plugs seemed the slightest bit loose I'll seal them in with one drop of candle wax. The discharge generally destroys the plug/wax for the most part so that it doesn't become a projectile. Of course, safe gun handling should always be in mind to prevent any accident be it powder burn, cardboard/wax strike, or hearing loss.
> 
> Remember....even if you flip a booger at 800 fps it'll hurt like hell. Always be safe.


You have to be careful about shooting blanks out of a regular (uncapped) pistol. Back in 1984 actor Jon-Erik Hexum killed himself what he put a blank pistol to his temple and pulled the trigger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> You have to be careful about shooting blanks out of a regular (uncapped) pistol. Back in 1984 actor Jon-Erik Hexum killed himself what he put a blank pistol to his temple and pulled the trigger
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum


I think that's been covered..



Howard Knauf said:


> Remember....even if you flip a booger at 800 fps it'll hurt like hell. Always be safe.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I reload too. I use cream of wheat to fill the case and klenex to seal it up then fire form my brass.
Canada sucks for handguns though


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Why are you fire forming the brass? Are you converting rifle cartridges to handgun brass?


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I shoot a couple ackley improved, and wildcat cartridges.


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## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

I use an Alpha 22...that way I can shoot the very light "crimps" as well as louder blanks. The pistols are not cheap, but are far better quality than the $50 dollar cheapos out there, that you will spend valuable training time trying to fiddle around with to get them to work. "Buy quality, cry once" as they say.

I prefer to not mix actual firearms into any training environment. A momentary lapse in judgement can result in a tragedy. Why take a chance of someone introducing a live round into your sterile environment?

A secondary consideration is this: Especially if you happen to be a civilian, it might be easier to explain to a responding officer for a "gunshots" call that you were firing off your " BLANK firing dog training starter pistol" rather than firing an actual firearm (even if loaded with blanks) which might jam you up in some jurisdictions. Depending on your circumstance, especially if you are training close to civilization, and training for the "realism" that we all seek, a preemptive call to the police to let them know what you are up to might prevent things getting "exciting" for you when the police arrive to your "gunshots" call. You might even invite us to stop by, and you might make a friend. 8)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Tim Connell said:


> I prefer to not mix actual firearms into any training environment. A momentary lapse in judgement can result in a tragedy. Why take a chance of someone introducing a live round into your sterile environment?
> 
> A secondary consideration is this: Especially if you happen to be a civilian, it might be easier to explain to a responding officer for a "gunshots" call that you were firing off your " BLANK firing dog training starter pistol" rather than firing an actual firearm (even if loaded with blanks) which might jam you up in some jurisdictions. Depending on your circumstance, especially if you are training close to civilization, and training for the "realism" that we all seek, a preemptive call to the police to let them know what you are up to might prevent things getting "exciting" for you when the police arrive to your "gunshots" call. You might even invite us to stop by, and you might make a friend. 8)


You make a good point. We do use conficated weapons, but revolvers .38 caliber only. No live ammunition is permitted. Everyone carries "autos", .357 sig rounds so there isn't a chance of a mix up. I'm more concerned when we do simmunition training than I am using blanks. 

DFrost


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Check out this site they have a good selection.
http://translate.google.com/transla...duct_info.php/products_id/1377&langpair=de|en


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Tim Connell said:


> I use an Alpha 22...that way I can shoot the very light "crimps" as well as louder blanks. The pistols are not cheap, but are far better quality than the $50 dollar cheapos out there, that you will spend valuable training time trying to fiddle around with to get them to work. "Buy quality, cry once" as they say.
> 
> I prefer to not mix actual firearms into any training environment. A momentary lapse in judgement can result in a tragedy. Why take a chance of someone introducing a live round into your sterile environment?
> 
> A secondary consideration is this: Especially if you happen to be a civilian, it might be easier to explain to a responding officer for a "gunshots" call that you were firing off your " BLANK firing dog training starter pistol" rather than firing an actual firearm (even if loaded with blanks) which might jam you up in some jurisdictions. Depending on your circumstance, especially if you are training close to civilization, and training for the "realism" that we all seek, a preemptive call to the police to let them know what you are up to might prevent things getting "exciting" for you when the police arrive to your "gunshots" call. You might even invite us to stop by, and you might make a friend. 8)


Speaking for myself.....when you're the po-lice it doesn't matter, but I see your point for civilians.

Daniel...you had me for a moment there. Thought we were talking pistols, not wildcat cartridges. Makes more sense now.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

we were talking pistols. Then got talkking about reloading.


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## Kevin lee (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey Lybbert,

I have the http://www.gunxusa.com/GunX/Home.html...used it about 12 training session...I still love it...

I had 2 Kimar one...a piece of sh t....


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## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

@ DFrost: Very true. Simunitions is definitely the way to go when injecting reality into firearms and tactical training..."Force on Force" is the definitely the way to go...next time I make it to your area, I'm looking you up...You are always on point. 

@Howard Knauf: Indeed...I train with some civilian friends regularly as well, and when we are out in public, and curious onlookers inquire, it's much easier to tell them "We are training police dogs"...then they keep it moving...8)


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