# Impressive



## Joel Anderson (Apr 16, 2007)

Now with all the people posting videos of these supposed great dogs and thier front attacks. I just saw this and thought I would share what I believe to actually be an impressive dog bite. Its not my dog just a video I watched and enjoyed.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv7SPwCaW0k


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

That was a solid hit right there. Awesome!


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Looks like KNPV training and is quite the norm in that sport. Watch the 2007 nationals posted on youtube, they do alot more. I love it when they knock the guy off the bicycle!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Nice!! See the comment from the peanut gallery?


> Are you whipping the dog? That ain't right ...


 What a clueless tool...


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Nice!! See the comment from the peanut gallery? What a clueless tool...


LOL!!! That reminds me of a scenario I had when my neighbor looked over his fence and saw me with a clatter stick playing with my dog. You should have seen the look on his face!!! He thought I was beating the dog.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I always liked this video:

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=46psdMxb0vA

And more stupid comments... by "36Special" .......


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Nice videos. But, where the heck is that one clip with the rock song score and various training from a group in Holland? It featured some outdoor scenes in the middle of a town, as well as some indoor bites where the decoy was using a 5 gallon paint bucket instead of a stick! lol



Andy.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Joel Anderson said:


> Now with all the people posting videos of these supposed great dogs and thier front attacks. I just saw this and thought I would share what I believe to actually be an impressive dog bite. Its not my dog just a video I watched and enjoyed.
> 
> http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv7SPwCaW0k


blockers give a nice hard body check. fliers are fun to watch. when you get both (like in this video) you just say "WOW".

edit: this dog has a very similar stok stellen to van leeuwen's Spike (block + fly)...


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Here you go...Its the highlites from 2007 KNPV Championship.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=OPXL33bufn0


Then, there is always this one which I enjoy...Watch when the dog gets so jazzed up he bites the handler. Oops did I laugh at that? Only because it has happened to me and I know the dog just wants to get a bite on! :twisted:


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> And more stupid comments... by "36Special" .......


LMAO, ya that post is from a tool for sure. Sounds like he is a couple short of the required 38 to be special!


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Oops, looks like I was a couple short of being "38 special" since I forgot to add the second link I mentioned above! =P~ 

Here it is: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=bmnFK2aewCw


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Heeeyyy I know that decoy, handler and dog in the first vid. It's KNPV alright, dog is about 18 mo. old now. For the ones who know Rob Luijken's Tommy, this dog is trained at the same club (not the same bloodline though)


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## Denny Campbell (Jan 16, 2008)

Its a wonder the decoy didnt jam that dog up pretty bad. I dont know the decoy nor do i like to monday morning qb, but that is what ruins dogs. That dog seemed like he hit a brick wall. But just my opinion.


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## Joel Anderson (Apr 16, 2007)

About the video with the rock music in holland and a 5 gallon bucket that was me and my video. Its been posted before I believe. Denny, that was a very uneducated thing to say. The dutch have decoyed and trained police dogs for over 100 years and decoyed in a similar manner for almost all of them. They produce more police dogs in thier tiny country than any other in the world. Maybe you should take a lesson in decoying from them since they have been doing it for so long and consistantly produce such high quality dogs. The sign of a good dutch decoy is he stays square to the dog and drives right through him showing no weakness or cowardness. THAT is how you test a dog. That dog has been caught like that 2 -3 times per week since he has been biting high in the arm and will do so until he is about 3. He seems pretty healthy to me. Maybe you should look at the other dogs on the Luyken website they ALL are decoyed like that or maybe any of the hundreds of KNPV clubs that have websites. I am probably being way to critical of your post and I am sorry about that but its been a bit of a long day and maybe people should lurk and read a while and then post. Again sorry if I was to harsh but "Thats all I got to say about that."


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Denny Campbell said:


> Its a wonder the decoy didnt jam that dog up pretty bad. I dont know the decoy nor do i like to monday morning qb, but that is what ruins dogs. That dog seemed like he hit a brick wall. But just my opinion.


A dog that slams with his body like that is a genetic behavior, and pretty common with KNPV dogs, it is often how a dog protects himself from jamming on the bite. The impact of the dog is so hard that it is basically impossible to stonewall a dog, the impact of the dog will force the decoy to absorb it, but because of the style it is less pronounced than IPO where the decoy swings the sleeve to catch the dog in an arc. Watch enough KNPV and you will see that the decoys are not afraid or embarassed to fall to the ground on impact, which is often what absorbs the dogs impact. In IPO, it is an embarassment if a decoy cannot catch a dog without falling over, so there is a more pronounced absorbtion of the impact for the decoy to maintain balance.

Not all dogs hit like that. As Tim mentioned, some are flyers, some are blockers, some are both. If you catch a dog like this on a sleeve IPO-style they can be a pain in the butt, as they will still try to body slam the decoy. Using their body lessens the impact on their neck.

You can see it on my tiny lil 37lb Dutchie too. IPO decoys complain that she paws them in the nuts (she might be small, but it still hurts when she does that!). If I hold a tug out to my left side or my right side and tell her to bite, she will come running, her body will be center to me and her face will go to the side of the tug. She always looks to hit with her body, even if the bite target is WAY off center.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Denny Campbell said:


> Its a wonder the decoy didnt jam that dog up pretty bad. I dont know the decoy nor do i like to monday morning qb, but that is what ruins dogs. That dog seemed like he hit a brick wall. But just my opinion.


Believe me: a good blocker hurts the decoy more, than the other way around. If the dog blocks well, he lands on your mid area of your chest, what means you are out of breath for a second or so.

Decoy has to be square like Joel told, and have to run in to a dog and the stick hit must become _before_ dog bites the decoy.

The really good decoys can scare a questionable dog at the turn when he comes towards the dog. Just by bodylanguage. The bodylanguage in combination with the stick hit before a dog bites, is the basics of the courage test in KNPV.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Believe me: a good blocker hurts the decoy more, than the other way around. If the dog blocks well, he lands on your mid area of your chest, what means you are out of breath for a second or so.
> 
> Decoy has to be square like Joel told, and have to run in to a dog and the stick hit must become _before_ dog bites the decoy.
> 
> The really good decoys can scare a questionable dog at the turn when he comes towards the dog. Just by bodylanguage. The bodylanguage in combination with the stick hit before a dog bites, is the basics of the courage test in KNPV.


the presence thing cannot be overstated here. it is what IMO seperates KNPV from other sports with regard to the courage test. to contrast this with say PSA. in PSA they seem to think that decoy speed equals presence. the decoy is almost in a full sprint toward the dog. the dog doesn't really even have time to "feel" the decoy's presense. in KNPV, the decoy isn't really moving that fast toward the dog. the eye contact, the decoy's body language, his posture can all be felt by the dog prior to the bite. joel knows this very well and with his training, has very good presence. i saw him run a few dogs in the trial last year and i know he wasn't even really bringing his "A" game because it isn't his intention to run dogs he doesn't know in a trial.

in PSA, with the decoy moving so fast toward the dog, he must "give" when the dog impacts or injuries will occur because all decoys don't run at the same speed so it's more difficult for the dog to judge. if the decoy is off on his timing on the give, injuries can occur. plus, because the dog is used to the decoy "giving", he does not develop the muscle control to be able to contract it's muscles to brace for the impact. the KNPV decoy does not give and all generally move toward the dog at the same relative pace. because of this, the dog learns to brace for the impact and those muscles are developed. there really are very few dog injuries from the stick attack from what i have seen and have been told.

the muscle contraction/development thing came from dick. he explained it to me and it makes complete sense. i will admit it sounds a lot cooler when dick says it.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Joel,

I did a search and found the thread where you posted it, but it has since been deleted from youtube. Got another link?



Andy.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> You can see it on my tiny lil 37lb Dutchie too. IPO decoys complain that she paws them in the nuts (she might be small, but it still hurts when she does that!).


Sheesh haven't these guys heard of a 'cup'? It is their own fault! My dog nailed me in the pills the other night, luckily I was sitting on the couch I was farting around with her getting her to jump up and


> UNNNFFHH!!


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Ya, I know what you mean Geoff, sometimes when my pup decides to jump onto me when lounging on the couch he hits the spot and I sit straight up! #-o

I won't work a dog as a decoy without a cup though. I don't have kids but the idea of urinating blood isn't on my "to do" list! =;


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> Sheesh haven't these guys heard of a 'cup'? It is their own fault! My dog nailed me in the pills the other night, luckily I was sitting on the couch I was farting around with her getting her to jump up and


Well you know these decoy guys Geoff, too busy complaining their "equipment" is too big to fit in a cup to realize it might save em from the crotch-punchers out there


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Isn´t also the speed towards the dog one factor of the "threath, I mean in IPO it seem like many decoys almost stops before they catch the dog, wich seems more easy than a decoy that runs straight forward the dog and maintain that direction as long as possible without slowing down.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Erik Berg said:


> Isn´t also the speed towards the dog one factor of the "threath, I mean in IPO it seem like many decoys almost stops before they catch the dog, wich seems more easy than a decoy that runs straight forward the dog and maintain that direction as long as possible without slowing down.


In KNPV it should be a running pace, without complety over run the dog.
If a decoys has a perfect balance between, running, threat (bodylanguage and voice) and timing of the stick he will considered as a very good decoy, threatening some times.

Some are stronger in running, others in threathing or perfectly time the stickhit.


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

Ok, I want to see some videos of ugly GSD's hitting that hard! That might turn me on!


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

If the stick was only raised as a threat in KNPV couragetest, would this make it considerably easier for the dog, is the bodylanguage and presence of the decoy more important than the actual hit?
Also, this very fast attacks is impressive to see, but does speed really equalls a strong, courageous and powerfull dog, isn´t the speed more a display of a real high preydrive, plus training of course?


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