# Wow.....wtf????



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

So I have been on the road for a while delivering dogs to police departments and this is what I came back to see........WOW!
I dont even know what to say,
I picked out a nice male Malinois puppy for Shane from Carlos and Dunya. On the week when that puppy was supposed to ship I had many clients here testing police dogs and it was very hectic and busy here for sure. I asked a former employee who was still here from time to time to help with the kennel feeding and cleaning if he could put the Carlos puppy for the guy from Canada in my wifes car before she went to the airport the next morning, he said he would do that. I already had the crate loaded, all the paperwork in order, addresses filled out, dates and times filled in and signed so as to simplify the process for my wife at the airport with my two baby sons in tow.
The morning that the pup was shipped I was very busy with the guys from the department here testing and my decoy was also working with us, we were heading to the school house to test inside and I reminded him to please load that pup up for the wife. Anyone who knows my wife also knows that she would not know the difference between a Carlos puppy and a Lassie puppy, she is not a dog person.
Anyway, the pup was shipped and I later got a nice e mail from Shane saying the dog arrived safely.
Several weeks later I got a follow up e mail from Shane saying the pup had nerves of steel, super drives, hard grips, etc. And his wife had even nicknamed him "the monster" or something like that.
That sounded very normal to me for a Carlos pup, and I knew the pup I had picked for him was like that so I did not doubt it at all.
Then a couple months later I got an e mail from Shane saying the pups nerves were not good, and he did not like the puppy. At that time I told him that I would be happy to replace the puppy, no questions asked. Since I still thought it was a Carlos puppy I did tell him that I would like that pup back because I knew it was a nice puppy, but I would be glad to send him another one. He decided to keep the pup there and I told him to let me know if he ever wanted to exchange it and I would be glad to do it. A few weeks ago he sent me a picture of the puppy and I told him for 100% sure that was NOT a Carlos puppy. This was when I first found out that the wrong pup had been shipped to Shane. At that point I told Shane I would send him the first pick puppy from any litter he wanted, and I would pay for the shipping, and he could keep the other puppy. I was furious, but did not take any actions other that agreeing to send Shane a pick puppy for 100% free.
The guy who did this had been trying to get several Carlos puppies from this litter to raise for himself and sell later, but I only let him have two, so he got some puppies from the breeder of the French litter also, but was not happy with them I know. He lived 15 minutes away and kept all of these pups at his house so I did not see them and had no idea exactly what he had there. It is very clear to me now that he swapped puppies and took the pup that was set back for Shane, and instead loaded one of his French puppies in the crate for my wife to take to the airport.
As for the picture of the puppy with Stephane, that is a picture that was taken on this guys phone days before it was sent to my phone where I forwarded it on to Shane and did not even open the attachment. 
Last year I was very busy with many litters, seminars, training, traveling, and showing dogs to clients here and out of town, I will admit that I was overwhelmed and lost control a bit of the size the business had grown into. I trusted other people who I should not have trusted to to what was asked of them. 
I had dial up and then very slow satalite internet connections that wold not allow me to upload video or even pictures without 30 minutes of waiting, my phone was the fastest way, but the pictures that were sent to me showed up in a file format, not actually showing the picture itself, but rather a paperclip image that I could never open. I forwarded a picture that was sent to me of a puppy that this guy knew he was gonna swap and I had no idea it was happeneing until a few weeks ago.

I can understand how this must look to people who do not know the character of the guy who did this, but I will be happy to put anyone interested in contact with the last two business that my former employee worked for, I have already spoke to them and they are more than happy to tell you the character of this guy.

I have a very good reputation as a man who stands behind my dogs 100%, and that does not come from doing shit like this. I have refunded many deposits to people who have paid for a puppy and I decided it would not work for what they wanted. I give away more puppies than most people breed in a year for being less than what I consider acceptable for a working dog, why in the hell would I knowingly send a shitty puppy to a guy who was gonna work it? When I have given money back to people and given away beter pups than that French puppy for free.
The guy who did this is now trying to sell dogs for a living 15 minutes up the road from me, is it any wonder that he would try to drag my name through the mud?

As I have already told Shane many times in the last few weeks: I WILL REPLACE THIS PUPPY 100% FREE INCLUDING SHIPPING WITH A PICK PUPPY FROM ANY LITTER HE WANTS, AND HE CAN KEEP THE OTHER PUPPY.


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

im nobody ..... seriously nobody .... but i did deal with mike on a small scale ... he allowed me in his house and was extremely honest and even offered to help me when i needed


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Mike, glad to hear your side. As the business owner you are responsible for your employees and the right thing to do is to make it good with Shane.

Sounds to me that Shane feels like he was screwed over royally and he was! 

Maybe, just maybe you have a competitor that is behind the scenes playing it up....


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## Mike Ritland (Apr 11, 2009)

I would like to add my two cents to what has been said recently on this forum. I can say with 100% assurance that I have done more business with Mike than any member on here, and quite possibly more than all on here combined. In every instance of any deal we have ever made, starting with the very first one where he didn't know me from Adam, he has been as honest and trustworthy of a businessman as I could have hoped for. I am not saying this to blow smoke or flatter him, I am just stating what has taken place over the last few years of always being taken care of when it comes to getting what I ask for, and what I have paid for. If I ever have any questions or concerns about anything that we have going on, it always gets worked out and he always takes care of us like a good honest businessman should.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

You seem like an honest guy to me, Mike. I hope to one day get a pup from you!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I am glad Mike gave his side. What I am not happy about is the fact he had too. I don't care who asks for breeder recommendations, it should be a positive yes or a simple negative. At no time should the moderators let shit like this go on. What went on in a couple of these threads is far worse than calling anyone names. You have a guy that has built up a business and has years and money invested and it only takes one or two people with a burr up their butt to tarnish a reputation forever. All of this bullshit should have been stopped and done privately. I don't know anyone involved in any of this but it is bullshit that this is allowed because it is far, far more damaging than any thread I have seem closed thius far. Mike should have his say and all these threads should be removed. The old saying, "You just can't please everyone all the time" is true.


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## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I am glad Mike gave his side. What I am not happy about is the fact he had too. I don't care who asks for breeder recommendations, it should be a positive yes or a simple negative. At no time should the moderators let shit like this go on. What went on in a couple of these threads is far worse than calling anyone names. You have a guy that has built up a business and has years and money invested and it only takes one or two people with a burr up their butt to tarnish a reputation forever. All of this bullshit should have been stopped and done privately. I don't know anyone involved in any of this but it is bullshit that this is allowed because it is far, far more damaging than any thread I have seem closed thius far. Mike should have his say and all these threads should be removed. The old saying, "You just can't please everyone all the time" is true.


What if the accusations were true? Don't you think that the dog buying public (us) deserves to know? I'm not saying that Mr. Suttle intentionally shipped a pup with falsified papers, I don't know but what if he did? I do know Shane and I would trust him to speak the truth 100%.


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle (Dec 31, 2009)

Turnipseed has a point...


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I am glad Mike gave his side. What I am not happy about is the fact he had too. I don't care who asks for breeder recommendations, it should be a positive yes or a simple negative. At no time should the moderators let shit like this go on. What went on in a couple of these threads is far worse than calling anyone names. You have a guy that has built up a business and has years and money invested and it only takes one or two people with a burr up their butt to tarnish a reputation forever. All of this bullshit should have been stopped and done privately. I don't know anyone involved in any of this but it is bullshit that this is allowed because it is far, far more damaging than any thread I have seem closed thius far. Mike should have his say and all these threads should be removed. The old saying, "You just can't please everyone all the time" is true.


 

That's an outrageous statement in my view. Breeders with such a precarious reputation as you put it would be well advised to abstain from participating as a breeder anyway on these forums. Shit happens sometimes, you can take it or leave it...or you can think carefully where you tout your rep.

I don't know Mike or Shane, but they are both fairly regular posters, and I listen to both.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Robin Van Hecke said:


> What if the accusations were true? Don't you think that the dog buying public (us) deserves to know? I'm not saying that Mr. Suttle intentionally shipped a pup with falsified papers, I don't know but what if he did? I do know Shane and I would trust him to speak the truth 100%.


The sad thing is that Shane is the one who got the short end of this stick, but he did not know what really happened. I dont know if he or anyone else believes that, but its true.


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## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> The sad thing is that Shane is the one who got the short end of this stick, but he did not know what really happened. I dont know if he or anyone else believes that, but its true.


The sad thing is that when huge amounts of money is changed hands in what has always been a " working class " man's hobby, the profiteers move in and principles are cast by the wayside. Dogs selling for stupid amounts of money....
Again, not claiming that's the case here but just saying..


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

So where is the real Carlos puppy? 
One thing that bothered me about this whole thing, how did Josh from looking at a photo of Shanes Mali know that it was not a Carlos puppy but knew it was infact a puppy from a French litter? Why was everyone so sure and not ask for DNA?


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## Josh Mueller (Sep 17, 2009)

A very well crafted story Mike, and very careful not to name names.

Let me ask you this though as you are so full of integrity. Why don't you tell the story of Alma O.V. or was that Hannah or Uma. What are those lines again????? Did "that guy" falsify that pedigree too and sell them as dogs out of Hektor x Hannah? The truth is out there on that one too.

Where do the lies end. How deep does this rabbit hole really go. It's sad that you are painted in a corner and have only one play which is character defamation.

You mention the former employers....those wouldnt be business associates of yours now would they. Who made those connections for you. I believe it was "that guy"

It's really sad man. you can come on here and play the politics but the truth is out there. Lies are like cancer. They slowly eat you alive. Everyone knows Mike. 

I too am glad you got your side of the story out there. It just further confirms what many of us already knew. The truth.


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## Josh Mueller (Sep 17, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> So where is the real Carlos puppy?
> One thing that bothered me about this whole thing, how did Josh from looking at a photo of Shanes Mali know that it was not a Carlos puppy but knew it was infact a puppy from a French litter? Why was everyone so sure and not ask for DNA?


This was already answered in the Shanes post.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Christopher Jones said:


> So where is the real Carlos puppy?
> One thing that bothered me about this whole thing, how did Josh from looking at a photo of Shanes Mali know that it was not a Carlos puppy but knew it was infact a puppy from a French litter?


I didn't think it could be a Carlos pup when I saw the photo either, unless it was 2 weeks old 

Hey Mike, you owe me a pup from when we did that thing with those people regarding that other thing that those other guys told us about.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Robin Van Hecke said:


> What if the accusations were true? Don't you think that the dog buying public (us) deserves to know? I'm not saying that Mr. Suttle intentionally shipped a pup with falsified papers, I don't know but what if he did? I do know Shane and I would trust him to speak the truth 100%.


I don't think it nmeeds to be discussed on an open forun Robin. Some one can simply say I wouldn't buy a dog from this breeder or that one and it can go to PM's from there. What was allowed here was a couple of people not talking about the quality of dogs but the mans character. It should have been stopped as far as an open forum topic. No one has control over what is said behind closed doors. Besides that, now that Mike has had his say, you don't know any more than you did nor does anyone else that followed this bullshit. It still leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Being totally realistic, the idea of Mikes dogs wallowing in their own crap is really far fetched. He has too many people there to keep his dogs like that. Raised a big red flag about the story for me. Yes dogs crap in kennels, but, it was made to sound like they were never cleaned....which I seriously doubt.

Besides, I have seen lots of breeders come and go over the years. The shysters never seem to last long because a breeder is not really successful until he has put in enough years for the original dog to pass on and the people come back for another dog. That is when you know you are producing dogs people want. Most non breeders or even small breeders don't realize how important every customer is to your long term success. You don't build up the clientel by screwing over those customers.

Robin, you obviously think the general public should be privy to discussions like this on an open forum. One person with a burr up his butt is all it takes. You seem to think srcew the big breeder because money has corrupted him. Re-read the previous paragragh. Just because a couple of people crow about how money corrupts everyone, you swallow it hook line and sinker. You are that gullible. You are too easily swayed along with many others.....that is why it is just bad policy to allow this kind of bullshit on an open forum.....and in the end, you still don't know who to believe do you.

There was much said about Mike being an advertiser on this forum. Maybe he is more forgiving than myself but those days would be over unless there was a definite policy change.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Josh Mueller said:


> This was already answered in the Shanes post.


 That goes for Mike as well. I would be damanding DNA tests. I would be demanding to find out how this happened and I would take action if someone did something dodgy.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I se it is going to start all over again. I have a suggestion. Take the other threads down don't close them, remove them. Take all but Mikes answer off this thread and leave his up for a couple of days so people have time to get his side but lock the thread. After a couple of days, remove Mikes answer also. The problem I see here, not knowing anyone involved is. this bullshit can go on and on and in the end, still no one will know who is lying about what. I do know that one side has a lot to lose while the other has nothing.


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## Cassandra Lane (Jul 2, 2010)

Wasn't someone recently banned because of a court case? Dog jumped off a balcony or something? I don't understand how this is different. I think Don has a great way of politely dealing with this-this doesnt belong on a public forum. 

I hope everything is straightened out and handled like men.


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## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

Mr Turnipseed, do you know me? do you have special powers? are you sure that I'm one of the ignorant masses? step down from your high horse please...


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle (Dec 31, 2009)

Josh Mueller said:


> Where do the lies end. How deep does this rabbit hole really go. It's sad that you are painted in a corner and have only one play which is character defamation.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Mike your still short! :lol:


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

I think Shane is pretty safe, considering everyone admits he was wronged.
Anyway it looks like the moral of the story is that French Malis are rubbish..... 



Jonathan Hoffnagle said:


> Josh Mueller said:
> 
> 
> > Where do the lies end. How deep does this rabbit hole really go. It's sad that you are painted in a corner and have only one play which is character defamation.
> ...


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## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

Don, I do like your dogs and what you're trying to do and agree with many of the statements that you make on this forum but the fact that you have 4000 and some posts does not mean that I'm not going to state my opinion.
Btw, I have had some experience in breeding and importing dogs and have been on the receiving end of a transaction gone bad. I'm I still really gullible?
Hopefully I can sleep tonight.

Robin


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

This thread is not an invitation to re-open the closed one, in which everyone but Mike Suttle had more than enough opportunity to express their opinions (over and over and over).


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Robin Van Hecke said:


> Mr Turnipseed, do you know me? do you have special powers? are you sure that I'm one of the ignorant masses? step down from your high horse please...


I think he's trying out for the mod position, King Solomon and all that don't ya know.


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