# Alternative Targets



## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

Does anyone have any experience in training dogs to do bite work on selective targets of the anatomy? Not just arm or leg bites from a frontal engagement or a running decoy. I mean training a dog to go for a specific body part other than the usual arm or leg. Like maybe the abdomen, or the hamstring for example. I just found myself wondering how effective a bite to the hamstring would be in stopping a attacker.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I've seen or heard about training to target the crotch and the head
and even the weapon hand.
BUT the whole idea seems like a waste of time. Deliberately limiting a protection dogs options doesn't make any sense to me.


----------



## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

I see your point all too well Thomas, I personally don't like the idea of limiting a dog's effectiveness. But I didn't mean for this to be applied strictly in the protection aspect of bite work. This type of scenario wouldn't be so much for a protection dog as it would be better suited for a police/military dog for use in search & apprehension or crowd control.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Ricardo Ashton;300833This type of scenario wouldn't be so much for a protection dog as it would be better suited for a police/military dog for use in search & apprehension or crowd control.[/QUOTE said:


> Training specific targets for PSD's is generally not a good idea. Most law enforcement trainers that I've ever spoken with, want the dog to be an opportunist, so-to-speak, and engage what is available.
> 
> DFrost


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If the dog doesn't have easy access to the "selective targets" it's going to loose valuable time looking for it.


----------



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Amen to David and Bob. We do teach the different targets but it's up to what's available when the dog gets there.


----------



## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Amen to David and Bob. We do teach the different targets but it's up to what's available when the dog gets there.


I think this is a big deal. Training for what the dog will see, or won't see. Not so much no training targets, but teaching the dog he can comfortably bite anywhere, and to stay out of the crotch and face.

Personally I'd rather have a dog bite me up top. That sweet tender white flesh on my thighs hurts when it gets bit way more than upper body.

I saw a couple dutch dogs that would bite up top in the front, and in the back of the legs on a run away. I like this, as it give the dog a picture of upper body and legs. Cover one, and the idea is they'll go to the other, front or back. Again, teaching them to bite other areas.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

teach them to hit whatever is available hard, fast with power and intensity. It wont matter what they grab it will bring the pain. 

All that alternative targets and targeting and stuff (outside of bite sports) sounds great in theory and its a good topic to argue about amongst ourselves but. It all goes out the window in real life. JMO


----------



## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

Thats my point Dave. There are targets a dog can take, (granted if they are available) that can stop a man in his tracks with so much pain that he forgets put up a fight/resistance. The dog being opportunistic in where it bites is one thing, it has its uses in re to saving time. But if a dog has a penchant for as Dave calls it "That sweet tender white flesh on my thighs", and more importantly has the speed to effectively circle around in order to find his target this might be of some benefit in stopping someone from running away, or at the very least slow them down.


----------



## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't have as much experience with this as some guys bit I've never heard of anyone that was bit by a dog that had intensity and purpose get way because it didn't hurt bad enough.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Ben Colbert said:


> I don't have as much experience with this as some guys bit I've never heard of anyone that was bit by a dog that had intensity and purpose get way because it didn't hurt bad enough.


They may not "get away", but I think you might be surprised at the ones that aren't affected one way or the other. I've seen them remove the dog and just toss it like yesterdays newspapers. Ripped flesh and bleeding. Of course the drugs in their system helped, but it's part of reality. At best, the dog was a distraction while other methods were used to make the apprehension.

DFrost


----------



## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Ricardo Ashton said:


> Thats my point Dave. There are targets a dog can take, (granted if they are available) that can stop a man in his tracks with so much pain that he forgets put up a fight/resistance. The dog being opportunistic in where it bites is one thing, it has its uses in re to saving time. But if a dog has a penchant for as Dave calls it "That sweet tender white flesh on my thighs", and more importantly has the speed to effectively circle around in order to find his target this might be of some benefit in stopping someone from running away, or at the very least slow them down.



the point of teaching where he can bite is to teach the dog he "doesn't have to circle" to get a bite. IE if sees legs, he takes it. If he sees a tricep or bicep, he takes it. If he sees a shape wrapped up in garbage bags and newspaper, he takes it. 

Also please remember, I am not on drugs or as motivated as I could be to hurt dogs/cops to get away when I am training. I try to be as motivated as I can be without hurting the dog, dogs training or the handler. You can do a lot of things to train reliability, but you have to wait to see what happens.


----------

