# GSD Slick/shiney Floor Phobic



## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

My German Shepherd has always been phobic of slick and shiney floors. I've taken him on all sorts of different surfaces and he just can't seem to get over this - in fact he's progressively getting worse. He won't eat, and he won't play on shiney or slick flooring. Any suggestions? So far I've just avoided the situation by working him outdoors and in dirt arenas but he seems to be getting worse every time I try to get him on the slick surfaces - petsmart, and now our Agility class. I'm pretty sure he's got a wire crossed, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything as sometimes I feel I have beer-goggles on when dealing with my own dogs.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Flood him. Take him to Petsmart and either play tug or feed him continuously while you walk around on the slippery surface.
Of course Chris with a sleeve/jambierre might work better but I"m not sure Petsmart management will go for it


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

He won't eat or play... So I've just been making him walk around. But he stress-pants the entire time and doesn't seem to settle. This last weekend was a kicker because he went into freakout mode during our agility class - same symptoms: stress panting, won't eat/drink/play, trying to leave the building, and trying to hide under things. Only this time, only the floor surrounding the agility equipment (which is under mats that are kind of slick but not shiney) was sealed/waxed concrete. It's just my theory that it was the floors bothering him. 

UUGHHHH - That fricken dog! He's so frustrating!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Have you had his eyes checked? Sometimes this type of issue is actually a vision issue. On some of the Belgian related email lists I'm on the Terv/Groen people joke about a "linoleum gene", never really understood why this would be funny. But it's not uncommon that dogs have this issue, and in some cases the owners reported back that when they had the eyes checked there were some vision issues.

I've also seen some dogs behave this way because of footing issues, especially if they have underlying joint/back/health issues, a slip can be very painful. In those cases one of those products you can spray on their feet to help with traction helped. 

I had a horse like this, it was actually a fear of water but she generalized it to all shiny surfaces, which got better as I worked on her fear of water.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Of course Chris with a sleeve/jambierre might work better but I"m not sure Petsmart management will go for it


I'm not sure Eagle will go for it. #-o](*,)

Anywho, I just read a thread where somebody put some paws wax on the dog for better traction. I'm going to try it....... I know this is/can be genetic and has to do with weak nerves. DDR lines - Shocker, there! :-x Oops - did I type that out loud?

But I can't even do AKC obedience with him if I can't walk him in the building! Grrrr.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Actually, Kadi, he has a blue/grey speck in his right eye - You can add that to the list of things that I took up with the breeder on this dog (who promptly stopped taking my calls). 

But, the vet said it was nothing. Said it was like heterochromia (china-eye like a husky). He doesn't seem to have any vision problems - hits the ball/jambi/tug hard enough. He retrieves fine - in water, too. Now that you mention it, though, I'll have it checked out.

I'm going to buy some tacky-paw stuff today and see how it pans out.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

If it's as bad as it sounds, no amount of flooding or putting the dog in drive will overcome it. Matter of fact he probably wont even go into drive so you definately can't use that. It's genetic and is what it is. Sucks.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Go back and reteach it, one foot at a time. Offer food rewards each step of the way...Testing and not teaching is a great way to mess them up. Sounds like a redo!!!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Actually, Kadi, he has a blue/grey speck in his right eye - You can add that to the list of things that I took up with the breeder on this dog (who promptly stopped taking my calls).
> 
> But, the vet said it was nothing. Said it was like heterochromia (china-eye like a husky). He doesn't seem to have any vision problems - hits the ball/jambi/tug hard enough. He retrieves fine - in water, too. Now that you mention it, though, I'll have it checked out.
> 
> I'm going to buy some tacky-paw stuff today and see how it pans out.


Have an opthamologist check the eyes, they can do a much more thorough exam than a vet. With some issues they can have normal vision in some situations, such as good/daylight lighting, but have limited vision in other areas such as low light. So he might hit the tug and stuff fine, but shiny surfaces just look to weird. 

Chances are it's just bad nerves, but I'd want to rule out a vision issue just to make sure this isn't the beginning of something that might get bigger/worse with time. 

The tacky paw stuff was what I was thinking of.

How is this dog on other odd surfaces? IE uneven footing that isn't slick/shiny, up high, etc?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> ...
> Chances are it's just bad nerves,...


 I would agree, but the eye issue would also show up under other conditions as well.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

@Howard G. - I'm all for training, but I can literally be in front of Home Depot/Petsmart with people coming through the moving doors with perfect focus and happy attitude, and the second I step foot off the welcome mat onto the slick flooring, he will not take food or a toy (this is a dog who LOVES ball on a string/frisbees etc). So I'm wondering if the texture of the floor is the issue. I will try to train with the tacky paw stuff like he's never seen the shiney/slick floors before and see what happens. It's worth a try, right?

Kadi - as far as surfaces go, we've been doing the usual mondio-style desens. - pools with bottles, mountain terrain, regular streets/sidewalks, snow covered or not, are all fine. I haven't had him on rubble or anything. He goes over the a-frame, cat-walk and teeter okay (we're just learning agility) but they are still low to the ground (2 to 3ft high). He went in the elevator fine. The problem first cropped up when we went to a friend's 7000sq ft mansion (I know, pass the grey poupon) that had very shiney, slick, brazilian cherry hardwoods throughout. He refused to leave the tile entryway. Toys/treats didn't help then, either.

So far, I'm with Howard K - I suspect he's just a nerve bag. At least he's good looking and sweet.  I'll have his eyes checked by a specialist just in case....


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

My thought is once any overiding health issues are checked out, buy a small sampling of a similar type flooring at your local home improvement store. Start with one square in the house or whever your train. Get him to take a treat or a toy off the square and work up from there. With one square the stress goes away quickly and hopefully won't put him in shutdown mode. If it's as bad as you say, you may never be able to "cure" it but with some work you MAY be able to at least get in the building for your obedience.

edit: And maybe try to define the problem, is the shininess or is it the slickness. A garage floor (at least here in TX) is not shiny but it sure can be slippery. It could be both but if it's one and not the other you have a better idea of how to address the problem.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Here's the eyes - 
https://www.facebook.com/profile.ph...1577922976960.75778.1502194731&type=3&theater


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

my house is all slick linoleum w only a few rugs. My dog thinks its all one big slip and slide. he loves it.
he used to stress pant when I first crated him. now as I fill his dog bowl in the kitchen he is already slip sliding his way as fast as possible to land boingo in the crate in the bedroom. So hopefully you can over come the stress w/ lots of exposure time and feeding.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

This is a curious topic for me but only in the sense that I don't fully understand it. Course, it wasn't until I started posting here that I learned some dogs have issues with surfaces. My first thought was "why would they to begin with", it just seems so random. Anyway, after reading this I did wonder if the dog had been checked over orthopedically. I expect though that it's probably a moot point since this doesn't appear to be all that unheard of.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Brett Bowen said:


> My thought is once any overiding health issues are checked out, buy a small sampling of a similar type flooring at your local home improvement store. Start with one square in the house or whever your train. Get him to take a treat or a toy off the square and work up from there. With one square the stress goes away quickly and hopefully won't put him in shutdown mode. If it's as bad as you say, you may never be able to "cure" it but with some work you MAY be able to at least get in the building for your obedience.
> 
> edit: And maybe try to define the problem, is the shininess or is it the slickness. A garage floor (at least here in TX) is not shiny but it sure can be slippery. It could be both but if it's one and not the other you have a better idea of how to address the problem.


Interesting topic.The idea outlined above sounds excellent and as he gets use to the section you have i would slowly make it bigger and have his water and feed dish on it too.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I really dont want to sound negative because this must be very disconcerting to the OP but.....you can flood all you want. You can bribe with treats all you want. You can slowly introduce small linoleum squares all you want....and you can try to put him in drive till you puke but the fact of the matter is that the slick floor is not a safe place for this dog. You may force him to finally submit by flooding but the second you pull him away then try to bring him back it's going to be like groundhog day all over again.

If it makes you feel better then do all you can but at the end of the day he is what he is. If he's a sport dog enjoy him outside. Make your home a safe place for him so that he lives without fear. This issue can be a precurser or insight to you that other issues may pop up, or they are there and you haven't seen them yet. The slick floor issue is the obvious problem that is easily identified. Not so obvious problems may be waiting to emerge. It's my experience with trying to fix a number of dogs with this issue that it rarely can be remedied. If your dog is the one that can be fixed then I'd be glad to publicly state that my position on this is wrong.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Is this behavior readily seen in young puppies or does it emerge over time and also does it typically accompany other mental soft spots in the dog? Howard, from your post it sounds like it's not uncommon for other issues to be interwoven in this problem.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> I really dont want to sound negative because this must be very disconcerting to the OP but.....you can flood all you want. You can bribe with treats all you want. You can slowly introduce small linoleum squares all you want....and you can try to put him in drive till you puke but the fact of the matter is that the slick floor is not a safe place for this dog. You may force him to finally submit by flooding but the second you pull him away then try to bring him back it's going to be like groundhog day all over again.
> 
> If it makes you feel better then do all you can but at the end of the day he is what he is. If he's a sport dog enjoy him outside. Make your home a safe place for him so that he lives without fear. This issue can be a precurser or insight to you that other issues may pop up, or they are there and you haven't seen them yet. The slick floor issue is the obvious problem that is easily identified. Not so obvious problems may be waiting to emerge. It's my experience with trying to fix a number of dogs with this issue that it rarely can be remedied. If your dog is the one that can be fixed then I'd be glad to publicly state that my position on this is wrong.


I agree, I am curious where the other issues are or if there are any.... Despite the age, I would have done other things early on........


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i get tired of hearing the nerve bag explanations because they are USELESS as help so who cares if it's true unless you want to dump the dog and start over with a better one .

imo, all you need to do is go slower if the flooding didn't work, and often flooding will only result in a shut down and set the problem deeper

first, most all dogs get used to walking on various surfaces and will have a preference. my dog will choose concrete over grass if given a choice, so i purposely take him over grass more often than he would prefer, cause i can, and it keeps things balanced out.

just like some dogs will get conditioned to hop over grates - if you allow them to

next, start feeding only on plexiglas sheets, and increase the size gradually. no dog will starve themselves to death no matter how much of a nerve bag they are 
- or just toss the food on the sheets so it has to get on them to eat

trim the nails shorter so they don't clatter

put sheets around the crate for the same effect. if your dog has a favorite spot put one there too. move em around so you can walk them thru the sheets and size them appropriately even if it means one or two steps will be on them

use your imagination to come up with more ways of desensitizing this and it will fade in time....AFTER you get over your frustration factor 'cause that that is not doing ANYTHING to help your dog
- keep raising the bar without the dog knowing it's being raised....this is not as hard as you make it out to be.....been there and done it

is it a pita to do this ? ... who cares ... you asked for help ..., thats my 2cents 

maybe getting off topic, but when i am around great trainers it always seems that the better the trainer, the more imagination they usually have. couple that with great timing and it is a thing of beauty to watch and strive for


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

sorry, guess i should stop skimming posts...
this has already been suggested


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Common issue that i see in patrol dog candidates with slick floor problems is going from light room into dark room.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

will fernandez said:


> Common issue that i see in patrol dog candidates with slick floor problems is going from light room into dark room.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


Really? Do you have any idea why that might be? Did you mean going from dark to light or rather exactly as you wrote it? Presumably the surfaces are the same and that the only difference is the lighting? 

This all seems rather bizarre to me. But then again I've got a midget DS that seems to look for reasons to go clawing, sideways around corners, spin out, or crash while skidding into things. And the higher she can get or weirder things she can climb on seems to make for good fun too.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jody and Nicole....

Other issues that I have seen in dogs with slick floor problems are hand biters, hectic on the bite, perceived ghosts where there are none, no combat drive, anal expressions with not much pressure from a decoy (usually situational), avoidance of any number of things, total shut downs, flight etc etc.

Each and every issue above can be discussed at length about how to fix it or why it happens but most every PSD I've seen with slick floor issues display most, if not all of the above eventually. A PSD with slick floor issues is a high liability and will get cops killed. You may, or may not see it in a sport dog but operational dogs are required to do some weird shit and it is then that the problems become apparent. Not a good time for things to happen at all.

We had one work full term here (5 years) and an unprotected person could whip this dogs ass on a slick floor. This dog displayed almost everything listed above at one time or another. He had a number of real street bites but a semi real badass could take him even in his comfort zone.( No combat drive).


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

I have to ask has the dog been allowed to run around with other dogs on these types of surfaces.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> You may, or may not see it in a sport dog but operational dogs are required to do some weird shit and it is then that the problems become apparent. Not a good time for things to happen at all.


No kidding. Care to elaborate on "weird shit"? I'm just interested in knowing what that might be.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Howard Knauf said:


> Jody and Nicole....
> 
> Other issues that I have seen in dogs with slick floor problems are hand biters, hectic on the bite, perceived ghosts where there are none, no combat drive, anal expressions with not much pressure from a decoy (usually situational), avoidance of any number of things, total shut downs, flight etc etc.
> 
> ...


How would a dog with slick floor phobias get to be a PSD? Wouldn't any dog with that issue be cut right away?


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

s


Jennifer Coulter said:


> How would a dog with slick floor phobias get to be a PSD? Wouldn't any dog with that issue be cut right away?


 
Just like training fixes thing, it often hides them as well. I seen the exact thing Howard talks about flooring and dark to light or light to dark, it all comes down to nerves, at least 95% + anyway. In my eyes a nervy dog does not make a good pet let alone a working animal of any sort.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Howard K - The other problems are there. I took him off of biting for a while to try to give him time to mature.... and play. He's 18mos now and will bite legs - still on leg sleeves. We're trying to keep it in prey as much as possible for a while. When I decided to return to working him, we started with him just playing free tug with other people in my club, then progressed from there. We've done our best to make sure he's having fun and there's no conflict. Interestingly enough, we did bitework earlier that day, before the agility. Maybe there was some bleeding? 

Thomas, did you see anything nervy during the bitework?

I started the agility while I was taking a break from bitework, assessing whether to return to it ever. As far as I can tell this was not an exposure issue, as I took this pup EVERYWHERE and did engagment with him from day one. He never had a problem with flooring until we were at the friends house when he was about 6mos old.

I keep seeing glimmers of hope from this dog. And he's young, so I'm trying not to peg him too soon. But, the signs and my concerns are real that this dude just isn't made of the good stuff. He's a nice enough pet dog, though. @Jody - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ubMSE_4OI&list=UUm5G8rIi4aLNcMNkkmKLCXw&feature=plcp

Oh well - I guess I'll just play sports with my Malinois.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

@Brad - YES - encourged to, but wouldn't with his best buddy, who was looking at him like he was a [email protected].


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> @Brad - YES - encourged to, but wouldn't with his best buddy, who was looking at him like he was a [email protected]


Ah ok well i thought sometimes another dog can help them overcome little things like that but you have done that and sounds like you did a good job raising him in general.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> How would a dog with slick floor phobias get to be a PSD? Wouldn't any dog with that issue be cut right away?



Some people in power fancy themselves as Jesus Christ and can fix anything. Long story. Not my decision that's for sure.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I have seen this aversion to walking on slick floors since my pups are reared and raised outside. Jackie had a problem with them. She is exremely tall and when this happened was pretty uncoordinated. First time on the floor her legs took off in different directions. She panicked and made it worse. After that she wouldn't get on them or, she would try to race across them to get to the rug. The more you let them flail around, the worse it gets. I put a leash on Jackie and slowly eased her onto the floor. One foot at a time. I stood right in front of her so she couldn't try to rush across and kept her upright with the leash. Took a couple of days and now she freely follows me from room to room over the slick floors. Just had to teach her to walk on the floor and not rush it. I stopped this right in the beginning and don't know how ingrained it is in he dog inquestion. May be fxable, may not. If you are going to try, don't let them slip and slide at all.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I have seen this aversion to walking on slick floors since my pups are reared and raised outside. Jackie had a problem with them. She is exremely tall and when this happened was pretty uncoordinated. First time on the floor her legs took off in different directions. She panicked and made it worse. After that she wouldn't get on them or, she would try to race across them to get to the rug. The more you let them flail around, the worse it gets. I put a leash on Jackie and slowly eased her onto the floor. One foot at a time. I stood right in front of her so she couldn't try to rush across and kept her upright with the leash. Took a couple of days and now she freely follows me from room to room over the slick floors. Just had to teach her to walk on the floor and not rush it. I stopped this right in the beginning and don't know how ingrained it is in he dog inquestion. May be fxable, may not. If you are going to try, don't let them slip and slide at all.



This is not an uncommon occurance with some imported dogs. My first dog was the same way but got over it for good in about 10 minutes. A stable dog will overcome it.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Some people in power fancy themselves as Jesus Christ and can fix anything. Long story. Not my decision that's for sure.


Sometimes people forget that the PSD is a tool and not a pet. They think it is a reflection of themselves if a dog fails and cannot be fixed. If it cannot be fixed it needs to be replaced.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Thomas, did you see anything nervy during the bitework?
> 
> I started the agility while I was taking a break from bitework, assessing whether to return to it ever. As far as I can tell this was not an exposure issue, as I took this pup EVERYWHERE and did engagment with him from day one. He never had a problem with flooring until we were at the friends house when he was about 6mos old.
> 
> ...


HI Lisa

He looked fine on Saturday. If he continues to progress with his Ring bite work I wouldn't worry about slicks floors. Never 
seen a Mondio Ring trial done indoors anyway 
The nice thing about working multiple dogs is, you can let them progress at their own pace and don't have to push them.
I had NO engagement with Gwr at that age. Now look at him  
He may even have a slick floor issue, but I never "tested" for it.
Don't care ;-)


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

My mother had a cattle dog like this. She would totally freak if she had to walk on shiny tiled surfaces, panting, eyes staring, panic etc. 

I was looking after her once and my house at the time was completely either tiled or painted concrete so there were problems right from the start, she was flailing and panicking all over the place, huddling on my one rug. 

So I took her to my bathroom where I could contain her, I tried easing her on the tiles but she wasnt having that and fought like a tiger so I just physically put her in the bathroom with me and my calm dog and I sat in there next to her while she was rooted to the spot with her legs splayed, panting and drooling, she didnt flail so I sat there and watched her, my dog lay down and went to sleep, I just sat on the edge of the bath. After awhile she calmed right down, probably exhausted from it all. I did this several times and then started to feed both her and my calm dog in there while I read a book. 

It was pretty boring for me but for her it seemed to work, by the time my mum cam back she was happily walking over tiled floors with my other dogs as if there had never been a problem and there was never any more problem with it. For her there didnt seem to be any medical problem associated with it though and for the most part she was a relatively stable dog, although odd phobias surfaced occassionally from time to time.

Working with a dog fearfull of humans and other dogs I chose a different method - that of desensitisation rather than flooding.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I can see for a PSD where that would be a major problem. 

My cadaver dog is not fond of slick floors and I would not deploy him on an actual search were they were involved (never had such a call though) ..even though he will work reliably on them but I can tell the discomfort by his body language and desire to gravitate to the darker sections of floor *if* it is white shiny and slick (institutional floors, like schools, not so much petsmart etc where the floors are not so high gloss, or even wood floors or tile floors with some visual texture). New puppy is totally oblivious to them but has been exposed since young.

I have not seen the issue go anywhere else though. He will climb, go in dark places, crawl under narrow spaces, in tunnels, work on on sheet metal roofing, unstable surfaces, loud noises, etc with no issues.

*Is this considered an overall nerve issue or a specific nerve issue? In my own case, I have seen it as a minor issue, limited in scope, but the dog has not been subjected to the stress a dual purpose PSD may face, either.*


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Howard Knauf said:


> I really dont want to sound negative because this must be very disconcerting to the OP but.....you can flood all you want. You can bribe with treats all you want. You can slowly introduce small linoleum squares all you want....and you can try to put him in drive till you puke but the fact of the matter is that the slick floor is not a safe place for this dog. You may force him to finally submit by flooding but the second you pull him away then try to bring him back it's going to be like groundhog day all over again.
> 
> If it makes you feel better then do all you can but at the end of the day he is what he is. If he's a sport dog enjoy him outside. Make your home a safe place for him so that he lives without fear. This issue can be a precurser or insight to you that other issues may pop up, or they are there and you haven't seen them yet. The slick floor issue is the obvious problem that is easily identified. Not so obvious problems may be waiting to emerge. It's my experience with trying to fix a number of dogs with this issue that it rarely can be remedied. If your dog is the one that can be fixed then I'd be glad to publicly state that my position on this is wrong.


I agree, if it's that bad he'll probably never get over it. If given a choice I would just stay away from slick floors, but if it was me that dog would have either gotten over it or went back because all I have is slick floors around my house. But with some hard work and some imagination you may be able to help it which makes for a better trainer. 

Plus she asked for some ideas, gave my 2 cents (actualy retail valued is $0.0125) #-o


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Let me preface this by saying I am NOT a cesar milan fan but I did once catch an episode about a detection dog with a similar problem. According to cesar using his methods they were able to overcome it. I dont remember what the exact methodolology was but you might be able to find it online and get a few ideas.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> @Howard G. - I'm all for training, but I can literally be in front of Home Depot/Petsmart with people coming through the moving doors with perfect focus and happy attitude, and the second I step foot off the welcome mat onto the slick flooring, he will not take food or a toy (this is a dog who LOVES ball on a string/frisbees etc). So I'm wondering if the texture of the floor is the issue. I will try to train with the tacky paw stuff like he's never seen the shiney/slick floors before and see what happens. It's worth a try, right?....


Anything WORTH having is worth giving your BEST efforts towards. Then, if it doesn't work for whatever reason, you can't sell your efforts short. Say, preaching good today!!! LOL.[-X


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

"Flooding" is interesting, but what happened to teaching the issue in smaller parts? No kid ever got the state test in September, it comes towards the end of the year when stuff is taught. 

Often all we want to do is overload the working dog with TESTS and lots of them; never really loaded the dog up with instruction and the successes needed to reach new goals.

If food, verbals, physical rewards, or smaller steps are needed, who cares? Remember, each dog is different based FIRST on genetics. Handlers can sometimes screw up the best of breedings, decoys too. I'm a huge supporter of "step instruction" and not death by the Great Flood!!!!](*,)


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I agree with Howard. Flooding for some things will do nothing but make the situation worse. Kind of a make or break solution. Flooding a people shy dog with friendly people is an entirely different thing. A dog panicking on a slick floor, IMHO, would be made worse with flooding.....to a point it may be irreversable and really be a "phobia".


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

I've cured dogs with this problem using this stuff. www.shop.com/Tacky+Paw+Wax+Shaws+Paw+Wax-11581776-p+.xhtml 

If I were in your position I would get in touch with a professional show handler and have them work with you and your dog. They deal with this all of the time and have a lot of little tricks.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> If I were in your position I would get in touch with a professional show handler and have them work with you and your dog. They deal with this all of the time and have a lot of little tricks.


 That statement speaks volumes.

Not having a go at you Chris...just sayin'


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Christopher Smith said:


> I've cured dogs with this problem using this stuff. www.shop.com/Tacky+Paw+Wax+Shaws+Paw+Wax-11581776-p+.xhtml
> 
> If I were in your position I would get in touch with a professional show handler and have them work with you and your dog. They deal with this all of the time and have a lot of little tricks.


 How about telling the Department of Education the same thing...then all these dumbA$$ will pass the college boards and high school certifications! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL\\/


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

The Tacky Paws has been ordered.  Thanks for the link! Obviously, I'm going to try to couple that with some counter-conditioning. I'll make a video.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Good luck Lisa.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> That statement speaks volumes.
> 
> Not having a go at you Chris...just sayin'


It really does. I've been around the show world and had no idea. Besides, usually, they have rubber mats or you are on grass.

T


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> It really does. I've been around the show world and had no idea. Besides, usually, they have rubber mats or you are on grass.
> 
> T


 Not a show guy so I gotta ask. Why rubber mats or grass?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> That statement speaks volumes.
> 
> Not having a go at you Chris...just sayin'


It sure does. I learn from the people that have success. Show handlers work more dogs through this problem than anyone. They are the experts. 

Should I try to learn from the police dog handlers that fail? 

I'm not having a go at you Howard... I'm just say'n. 

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> It sure does. I learn from the people that have success. Show handlers work more dogs through this problem than anyone. They are the experts.
> 
> Should I try to learn from the police dog handlers that fail?
> 
> ...



You missed my point.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Did I? I'm sorry. What's your point? 

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I figured you'd be one of the last people that needed it spelled out.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

In view of some of my previous comments, I think I will just sit this one out Howard. :grin:


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Don't worry Howard, I KNOW I'll need it! 

Did I mention he is a nice pet? LOL


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Don't worry Howard, I KNOW I'll need it!
> 
> Did I mention he is a nice pet? LOL


 I was being sincere. We all love our dogs.


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

If it were my dog I'd try the following method if flooding does not suit you.

Cover your problem floor completely with opened up and flattened out large cardboard boxes. Hide pieces of meat under the overlaps but on the cardboard beneath. Over time, after the dog is comfortable in that room and has been fed there many times, start pushing the boxes one under the other so that you expose the flooring material a little at a time here and there. He will get comfortable stepping over the small pieces of exposed floor. Keep placing the meaty treats under the cardboard material but now and then on the floor material. Don't rush. Go at the dog's comfort rate. Once in a while bring in other dogs so that there is a competition to get the treats. 

Good luck,


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## Rob Kringel (Aug 2, 2011)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> My German Shepherd has always been phobic of slick and shiney floors. I've taken him on all sorts of different surfaces and he just can't seem to get over this - in fact he's progressively getting worse. He won't eat, and he won't play on shiney or slick flooring. Any suggestions? So far I've just avoided the situation by working him outdoors and in dirt arenas but he seems to be getting worse every time I try to get him on the slick surfaces - petsmart, and now our Agility class. I'm pretty sure he's got a wire crossed, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything as sometimes I feel I have beer-goggles on when dealing with my own dogs.



I am not sure if your dog has any Fero in him but here is an old article on the leerburg site that talks about some problems with Fero dogs on slippery floors. Not sure if it applies to your dog but it is an interesting read. Especially since so many German Shepherds have so many lines to Fero. My boy has two lines to Fero through Timmy and I have often wondered about this issue. He shut down once on a slippery surface and he HATES the bath tub. Just shakes. I have often wondered if this is because of his linebreeding on a Fero dog. (I have taken back on to the slippery surface that he shut down on since then and he has done fine but I wonder if he will ever revert back to not wanting to move).

http://leerburg.com/fero.htm


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Lisa,
Why wasn't this issue addressed if not at the time it expressed itself, at least the very next day? Instead you've let it become a phobia and now it's become a real problem for the dog.

You want the easy out with someone saying it's a generic problem, but it ain't going to be that simple. Because it ain't so Lisa (and everybody).

I'm no real friend to the people you got your dog from, but what ya say blame gets put where it belongs, eh?
Work with the dog in front of you not the dog of your dreams Mrs. big time dog trainer.

Randy


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sounds like you have the inside scoop Randy. Do tell.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I'd be thinking "bad experience involving helplessness" before I'd be thinking genetic, and I agree 100% with Don and Howard that flooding wouldn't be on my list.

Tacky paws and then focus work and counterconditioning at the edge _(out of the reactive zone)_ of the problem floor would be my choice. I would work just like I would with an electric wheelchair, a motorcycle, rushing water, or anything else I needed to desensitize the dog to.

Flooding can go badly wrong, unlike working just outside the reactive range.

I wouldn't have ignored this. But I understand maybe you thought he would outgrow it. Still, I've worked successfully with this kind of issue after it had been allowed to become drooling shaking panic -- I just accepted that it would require some time and patience.

I would be very careful not to allow any slipping-sliding accidents, as mentioned.

PM me if you would like more detailed step-by-step.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I'd be thinking "bad experience involving helplessness" before I'd be thinking genetic, and I agree 100% with Don and Howard that flooding wouldn't be on my list.
> 
> Tacky paws and then focus work and counterconditioning at the edge _(out of the reactive zone)_ of the problem floor would be my choice. I would work just like I would with an electric wheelchair, a motorcycle, rushing water, or anything else I needed to desensitize the dog to.
> 
> ...


share the step by step lady...please...I am interested in hearing all the possible solutions..

I never had a dog with this problem, but doesn't mean I might not some day..


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm not going to bother to read through the entire 7 pages of this... but I will add in we had at least 1 police dog (from Czech lines I believe) that were washed because of the shiny floor problem.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> share the step by step lady...please...I am interested in hearing all the possible solutions..
> 
> I never had a dog with this problem, but doesn't mean I might not some day..



Start outside reactive zone. Do upbeat focus work with very HV rewards. Decrease distance gradually. Slowly move closer to the shiny floor. Don't move so fast that reaction is triggered. 

Eventually I am on shiny floor, and dog (with no-slip paws), on leash, focused on me, steps with even one paw onto it. Then I'd calmly walk off of it, do a couple more commands, quit.

Repeat.

Main point, I don't work in the reactive area. I stay at the receding edge of it. I get closer only as the area shrinks with the focus-on-me-and-great-rewards work.

And I'm in no rush.



ETA
I've done this with the things I mentioned (motorized wheelchairs, stream, vacuum cleaner, skateboard) and others: car, stairs, etc.

The general idea stays the same. You know -- motor off, wheelchair empty in the next room. Then wheelchair still off but in same room. Etc., etc.

Focus work is good anyway. There's no downside. 

JMO!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Start outside reactive zone. Do upbeat focus work with very HV rewards. Decrease distance gradually. Slowly move closer to the shiny floor. Don't move so fast that reaction is triggered.
> 
> Eventually you (human) are on shiny floor, and dog (with no-slip paws), on leash, focused on you, steps with even one paw onto it. Then I'd calmly walk off of it, do a couple more commands, quit.
> 
> ...


GOOD STUFF...as I thought it would be...glad you were not stingy with it...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> ... glad you were not stingy with it...


LOL! Not at all. It's been detailed here a few times -- I was just avoiding repeating myself if everyone had already seen it six times. :lol:


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Randy,

What makes you think I didn't work on the problem when it was expressed (at 6 mos old)? You think I haven't entered petsmart, or other slick surface since then with Eagle? I've put in plenty of time trying to work it out on my own (with advice from others), and had it resolved, I wouldn't have posted it here.
What makes you think this is not a genetic issue?

My attitude is that a much bigger portion of our dogs is nurture, not nature. You of all people should know that everytime I hit a road bump with Eagle, I was immediately asking for advice or help from other people with these particular lines of dogs. I always try and collect as much info as I can on dog training - that's how people learn to be better trainers.

BTW, as far as me being Mrs. Big Time Dog Trainer - I have never been to high on my horse to ask for help or a second pair of eyes. I've taken this dog to many of the big names in the business for help and coaching on the way I train and handle him in all facets. You know what their assesments were? Oh right, I think you do.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Hi Connie,

Over the summer I did neglect it a bit as we did most of our stuff outside - Michael had me working a TON of play (motivation work). But I didn't ignore it completely. I could have been more pro-active, though. Now that more of our stuff will be inside, I'll get to work as soon as my tacky-paws gets here.

I like everybody's advice about slowing it down and breaking it into slower approximations. I think I was rushing it a bit.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

The other fear could be from the dog's level...ROACHES! Just thinking o/s the box...:-$


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Nope, no idea Lisa.
Just what were the 'major trainer/handlers' impressions about your dog?

You made no head way with this problem in a year. A YEAR! 12 Months! 
Ya think maybe you just may have waited too long to ask for help?

Who knows, maybe initaily the dog just didn't lke the smell of the wax on the floor but now it's the floor that's become a phobia. Where should we (I) lay the blame one full year later?

Myself I like the single tile at a time idea. Maybe even use a tile (shiney) in the place command. If you have access, try walking him on a narrow carpet runner across a bright shiney floor onto a short stretch of floor to another 'safe spot' (do not allow him to jump to the safe spot). Do some heels on the runner and about turns where he just has to touch the floor.....carry on as if nothing happened.
Work with the dog. Find the reaction zone and s-l-o-w-ly allow him to learn it's all fine.
Don't know, use your imagination and don't just let it lay about to deal with later when you have more time as you've admitted has been done. One year for a 18 month old pup is a very l-o-n-g time.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Randy Allen said:


> ... Myself I like the single tile at a time idea. Maybe even use a tile (shiney) in the place command. If you have access, try walking him on a narrow carpet runner across a bright shiney floor onto a short stretch of floor to another 'safe spot' (do not allow him to jump to the safe spot). Do some heels on the runner and about turns where he just has to touch the floor.....carry on as if nothing happened.


I like this. I hadn't thought of either one.


Another good way to

_"Work with the dog. Find the reaction zone and s-l-o-w-ly allow him to learn it's all fine."_


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