# L4-L5 and L5-L6 Spine



## Ted White

How might I find out what nerves are affected by compressing these vertebrae?


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## Trish Campbell

You or your dog? Bulging disc? Herniated disc?


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## Ted White

Sorry, My dog. X-Ray only shows a slight narrowing of space between the vertebrae. Don't know about bulging or herniation at this time. 

I'm just curious to find out what nerves exit the spine at the L-4 thru L-6 areas.


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## Connie Sutherland

Ted White said:


> How might I find out what nerves are affected by compressing these vertebrae?


http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2005&PID=11024&O=Generic

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_67/67mast.htm

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cach...ram&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://www.animalhealthcare.com/handouts/dogs/Cauda equina.htm

http://petsurgery.com/caudaequinasyndrome.html


I don't know what specifically you are looking for.... a chart of the spine with nerves? Or more like what the nerves do when the vertebrae are compressed?

Maren?


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## Ted White

Hi Connie,

I'm looking to see which nerves exit the spine in those areas. See, the X-ray indicates a slight narrowing in those areas. The dog isn't feeling pain in the lower back since he dosn't look at that area when he is in pain. He looks at his arse. This all might make sense, however, if the nerves in the L4-L6 area run through his rear. A pinching on the spine may be viewed as a pain in the ass (as it were).


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## Trish Campbell

Maybe some pain then?

I didn't look at Connie's links, nerves are probably a bit different with dogs...I know people would have back pain, numbness and tingling, shooting pain down the rear-like sciatic nerve pain, then as it gets worse all the way to the toes.


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## Ted White

There's pain, but frankly now I'm not really thinking it's the result of the vertebrae. The last vet felt this might be the problem, but I'm basically just following through and checking this out is all.

I have this back pain on ocassion myself. Pretty incapacitating. When I read about spinal / nerve issues with dogs, they are pretty universally described as a hesitance to get up, jump, etc. There is no hesitation with my dog.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Dont have any advice, but sorry to hear of all your troubles. Good luck with your lil guy, I hope you find the answer soon!


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## Maren Bell Jones

Connie Sutherland said:


> I don't know what specifically you are looking for.... a chart of the spine with nerves? Or more like what the nerves do when the vertebrae are compressed?
> 
> Maren?



Dang it, Connie, you're making me go dig out my dog anatomy back.







I'll go look for it and report back in a while.


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## Connie Sutherland

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Dang it, Connie, you're making me go dig out my dog anatomy back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll go look for it and report back in a while.



Well, get a move on. What do you think we're paying you the big bucks for?!

:lol:


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## Maren Bell Jones

Okay, okay, sorry I took so long on this. This is what my dog anatomy book says about that region (from Evans & deLahunta 6th edition of Guide to the Dissection of the Dog):



> In the caudal cervical region over the fifth to seventh cervical vertebrae there is an enlargement of the spinal cord that nearly fills the canal. This is the cervical intumescence. Its presence is due to an increase in white matter and cell bodies that are associated with the innervation of the thoracic limb. The intumescence occurs from the sixth cervical segment of the spinal cord through the first thoracic segment. *Another enlargment occurs in the midlumbar vertebral region for the innervation of the pelvic limb. The lumbar intumescence begins at about the fourth lumbar segment and gradually narrows caudally as the spinal cord comes to an end near the intervertebral space between the sixth and seventh lumbar vertebrae.* The narrow end of the parenchyma of the spinal cord is known as the conus medullaris. The spinal cord terminates in the filum terminale, which is a narrow cord of meninges that may included a long extension of the neural tube and central canal. This attaches the conus medullaris to the caudal vertebrae. The cauda equina [Latin for horse tail, btw, because of its appearance] includes the conus medullaris together with the adjacent lumbar, sacral, and caudal roots that extend caudally in the vertebral canal....
> 
> All other spinal cord segments reside in the vertebral canal cranial to the vertebra of the same number. This is most pronounced in the caudal lumbar and sacrocaudal segments of the spinal cord. In general, the three sacral segments lie within the fifth lumbar vertebra and the caudal segments lie within the sixth lumbar vertebra. There is a breed variation in the length of the spinal cord. In small breeds it extends about one vertebra father caudally and in large breeds one vertebra farther cranially.


I don't know if that help (or even what in means in your dog's case), but that was a lot of typing.


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## Ted White

Thanks for that Maren. I'm flattered by your generous donation of time to look that up and write.

The essense of my question is would a slight narrowing of the L4-L6 area possibly create a pain that is perceived as a pain in the perianal area. 

I have the pup with a definite perceived pain / annoyance in the perianal / base of tail area, and an x-ray showing the very slight narrowing. So I don't know if the two are necessarily related.

Thanks again,


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## Maren Bell Jones

No problem! Now you probably understand why neurology sucks. [-( Once again, that sounds like it would certainly be plausible, but we haven't had neurology yet and I'm honestly not an anatomy super star, so I can't help ya much! Anywho, did you end up having a consultation with a neurologist either at Michigan State or elsewhere?


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## Ted White

Had a great series of x-rays and a thorough eval. The spinal narrowing (possible) was all that was seen.

Thanks again!


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## Gillian

Ted White said:


> Thanks for that Maren. I'm flattered by your generous donation of time to look that up and write.
> 
> The essense of my question is would a slight narrowing of the L4-L6 area possibly create a pain that is perceived as a pain in the perianal area.
> 
> I have the pup with a definite perceived pain / annoyance in the perianal / base of tail area, and an x-ray showing the very slight narrowing. So I don't know if the two are necessarily related.
> 
> Thanks again,


I know this is a very old thread, but do you remember what it was that ended up being wrong with your dog? Mine is having the same symptoms/behavior


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## pattigal262

Ted White said:


> There's pain, but frankly now I'm not really thinking it's the result of the vertebrae. The last vet felt this might be the problem, but I'm basically just following through and checking this out is all.
> 
> I have this back pain on ocassion myself. Pretty incapacitating. When I read about spinal / nerve issues with dogs, they are pretty universally described as a hesitance to get up, jump, etc. There is no hesitation with my dog.


Possibly acupuncture may help
Chiropractic
And dietary supplements for cleansing and reducing inflammation
Look online under holistic practitioners
Amazing what diet change to raw can do


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