# Getting a dog to use its nose



## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I just got a new dog. Its almost 2 years old. If the dog sees the ball land he gets it. If not he runs around till he sees it or stops looking. He runs around with his mouth open and not even trying to use his nose. I have tried sending him on short sends but he wont smell for it. 
Any suggestions?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

just a w.a.g. but maybe from too much play "fetching" coupled with low hunt drive ?

maybe, starting from a short distance, flavor it with what he likes and throw it in a pile where it will sink and he will have to use his nose to dig it out rather than rely on visual only
....in a box of styrofoam maybe where it will quickly sink out of site ?

make it easy at first but make sure he can see where it lands but sinks outa sight and maybe he will start using his nose to find ... then build up from there and go to just the ball ... ???? 

hard to describe in words, and if you already tried that basic principle and it didn't work, i'll give it some deeper thought 

if that won't work correct him til he gets it with your crutch of choice // lol //


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## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

Try putting the toy under a bucket or a milk crate and let him see you do it. For the first few reps, use one bucket. Then bring in 2 buckets and only let him get the ball once he puts his nose on the seam. If he has hard time with the buckets, go to the milk crate. He'll be able to see and smell it. If you have multiple crates, increase the hunt by using them. But then again, he may not have it in him to hunt. Either way, good luck.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

placing it under something where he knows it is may work too, but it's a little more dependent on how much hunt drive is there 

i would consider that a step up after he can easily and readily dig it out of a shallow pile ... the "in the beginning, set him up to succeed" principle


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

rick smith said:


> placing it under something where he knows it is may work too, but it's a little more dependent on how much hunt drive is there
> 
> i would consider that a step up after he can easily and readily dig it out of a shallow pile ... the "in the beginning, set him up to succeed" principle


 
Also Daniel....how long have you had this dog? it maybe more beneficial to just forgo trying to get him to hunt for a ball right now. If you just got him, he may benefit from not having the added stress of you trying to train something into him right now, and just play the games he already knows.

but if your inclined.
Back chain it. I would get multiple balls, go to field where you can have him off leash. and just go place them in some tall grass before you get him. 6 balls in a small area. about 10 feet between each...go get hime .and just let go for a walk with him off leash. I am sure he will sniff and explore the area. he will start to find balls in the grass. do this multiple times a week. it in the same spot...when you see him come out in excited and he knows he is about to go hunt for the balls, you know you have conditioned him. keep doing this so he builds skill in finding the balls. next go place your six balls out there. and have a ball with you. when runs out to go find the balls, throw a ball over him in to the area where the balls are....does not matter which one he finds. If he brings a ball back. stop. do this a couple times a week. Then hold him by the collar, throw a ball and let him go. if he stops and looks, or does not go look....do not say anything...just go walk out there with him. hopefully it clicks and he starts looking. keep doing this in the same area, till the behavior is what you want to be...the expand the area a little....go different places. hopefully he will associate the ball being thrown to the possiblitly of finding one out about where it landed.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

James, I like what your saying but my concern would be no true hunt drive. Any dog can be taught to find a toy. Sustaining that drive to find it is another thing all together. 
What your saying should expose that hopefully.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I can't say I have any advice, but if it helps I thought I'd show you some of the earlier work I did with my pup. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyUpHHP9V0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhNRxY-6W_A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU5uCg4gfa0


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I would also be building hunt drive with food, in the grass.

All good ideas so far, but I might also try just hiding the ball around the house, even just putting it under a towel, or in a boot, then you can line up more boots... in the couch cushion gap, whatever. make it a game in the house, smaller area, has to use his nose to find it.

My dog I did nothing with until 9-10 months or so, did not even know what a ball was at that age, and had almost zero interest in them. Now she is a freak for a ball. (maybe not as much of a freak as some other dogs or what she would have been if started on a ball much younger, but freaky enough for me, and to use for training. will track a looong time for the ball too).


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Ah shades of a hunting Lab...

The willingness to chase is prey, like Bob said about hunt drive...might not be real strong. The desireto stay focused until it is found IS hunt drive. I had a Lab that air scented the water for a crippled Brant many years ago. If the thing had not dove under water and stayed down that dog would have it. 

Using its nose and casing the area is an act of "looking" for it. It may work a large area until it picks something up. Are you too quick to just go over and get the toy or ball for the dog? If so, maybe the dog's saying the heck with it...they'll get it, they threw it! [-(


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Dont feed him for a couple of days...stick food in ball...throw ball in high grass...retrieves ball... mark feed...repeat


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I would also be building hunt drive with food, in the grass.


I was thinking the same thing. Though that might screw up your Level 2 and up Food Refusal. ](*,) 

When I was playing around with Sasha doing tracking through drive, I took some lessons with Kim C of Ottawa Valley Search dogs we used food to start. I'd place it on her frisbee which was upside down so it acted like a plate. Then faded out the food to just a frisbee. Then to a kong, keys, wallets as time went on. She has better than average hunt drive so it wasn't that hard to bring that out with her. Even her blind search she air scents, I basically have given up on her running a pattern as no matter how many times we try to show her pattern she just air scents and goes directly into the blind in trial so screw it, I just let her do that. 

What does Jenn think? She has more than enough experience with her SAR profile to help you problem solve it and give you good advice on which way to proceed.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Bob seemed to be the only one to say it. Ball drive does not mean in any way what so ever that a dog will "hunt." 


Jim


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

I have a 3 1/2yr old American Bulldog who has "OK" ball drives and if any scenting ability I havn't done anything to develope them. About a month ago, after watching some nose work vids, I thought it would be interesting to see if I could get the bulldog to start using his nose.

So... I started out with a little bit of regular ball retrieval exercise, then I put him in a sit and went and placed his ball in tall grass, where he was able to find it fairly easy. I gave lots of praise when he found it, and slowly progressed it from there.

At about 4weeks now, hes gotten pretty good at finding his ball on cue. Theres times where I can tell hes just on the verge of giving up so i'll just walk over there and plant a ball for him to find, but more than anything its just kind of fun to see him work through each scenario, especially when its windy or breezy out.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Teach him to use his nose, scented balls or tugs work great. Or food, anything.to really get his attention to start hunting with his nose, not visually. It carries over.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I like pushy, nosey dogs almost to the point of being almost autistic in their scent oriented world. I remember doing hides with my pit when I was 12 out in the country and until today it never occurred to me to use food. I understand that it has a basis and works but what really turns my crank is to see this develop naturally through a relationship and association that leads to the discovery of something that produces a reward. I guess that works for me because that's something I am naturally inclined to do in my own life.

I'd like to see this dog on video.

I've said it before but if I could do nothing other than work with dogs in this capacity, I'd be in hog heaven.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I agree with Bob for sure. I was talking with my wife and we came up with the same idea as Will. We will give it a try. 
I dont go pick it up for him ever. I just start to walk towards the ball and try to direct him there with no real direction. 
I just really hate haveing to go look for the ball myself when the dam dog should already have it. My other 2 dogs would find a needle in a hay stack. Even if it took 3 days.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

We did the toss a toy/ball/tug/whatever in the tall grass when I helped select SAR dogs. 
Amazing how many folks wanted their dog to be tested cause "they can find their toy in the house/yard" ](*,). Those dogs were often rejected by simply turning them around a coupe of times after they saw the toy tossed. 
I looked for the dog that stuck to finding whatever more important then actually finding it. If the dog found it quickly they got another, harder toss. That easy find tells me nothing about commitment.( Drive for the hunt!) Without that you have a nice retrieving pal......hopefully.
Toy under the milk crate (in sight ) shows a drive to get the toy. It's a help to read the dog but not much on hunt drive.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Just threw his food in the grass. He sure hunted for that.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Just threw his food in the grass. He sure hunted for that.


Food Refusal -10 points!! LOL! 

Maybe you can transfer it to something like these? 
http://www.k-9dynamics.com/Detection/Training-Aids/Odor-Imprinting-Balls/prod_110.html


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

not to worried about the food refusal. When he is working food on the ground will be the least of his worries. I dont think it is a problem at all


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## Craig Snyder (May 7, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> I like pushy, nosey dogs almost to the point of being almost autistic in their scent oriented world. I remember doing hides with my pit when I was 12 out in the country and until today it never occurred to me to use food. I understand that it has a basis and works but what really turns my crank is to see this develop naturally through a relationship and association that leads to the discovery of something that produces a reward. I guess that works for me because that's something I am naturally inclined to do in my own life.
> 
> I'd like to see this dog on video.
> 
> I've said it before but if I could do nothing other than work with dogs in this capacity, I'd be in hog heaven.


I have to agree with you. My most favorite thing is to see a dog running or walking along and all of a sudden just turn and freeze. Seeing them reach their nose out and testing the air, figuring it out where it comes from. And ten seconds later they're off on scent. I imagine hunters working with pointers and setters probably get the same thrill. Just amazing that they can just so suddenly pick that up from 100yds away and more sometimes. That hunt drive is so cool. The reward is almost an afterthought for these guys. 

Craig


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

My first dog in Switzerland was a Landseer (black and white Newfoundland).

Our National Trials consisted in level 1 of handler laying the track with one corner and placing dumbell at the end.

The dog was sent from the start and the handler waited there for him. 

In training Ben thought this was the "Gaudi" - free - and off he went and 15 metres into the track threw himself on to the ground and winked with all 4.

I was left to figure this out for myself. I realised that he did not know what he was supposed to do so I tied him to a tree, and in his full view, held up his dumbell and set out to lay a short track - halfway through I showed him the dumbell and then walked a few metres (no corner) and laid the dumbell. I went back to the dog, waited a few minutes and let him go. He ran a few metres and then nosed is way to the dumbell.

From then on I had him retrieving it and running back to me when I jumped up for joy and clapped - much to the amusement of a woman with 2 huskies who had been watching.

The dog's tracking instincts were perfectly good as I later found but at first I was not able to show the dog what was required of him.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Craig Snyder said:


> I imagine hunters working with pointers and setters probably get the same thrill.


In some ways it's almost better. 

I have one that finds objects and one that tracks (FST), trails, and locates objects but what I enjoy most is watching the mastiff (the one with a broader range of ability). The change of behavior when she crosses a track and as dramatic as if she were clothes lined yet somehow she manages to stop dead in her tracks and then transition within a second or two at that same rate of speed. In an open area she moves with efficiency and precision that is simply beautiful to watch. Nothing about it is random, it's almost like you can envision exactly where the animal traveled as she follows it. 

I've spent so much time watching her do this that I generally can tell what type of animal she is after just by observing her body language.


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## Craig Snyder (May 7, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> In some ways it's almost better.
> 
> I've spent so much time watching her do this that I generally can tell what type of animal she is after just by observing her body language.


That's easy for me.. it's never an animal.. she only hunts humans!

Craig


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Craig Snyder said:


> I have to agree with you. My most favorite thing is to see a dog running or walking along and all of a sudden just turn and freeze. Seeing them reach their nose out and testing the air, figuring it out where it comes from. And ten seconds later they're off on scent. I imagine hunters working with pointers and setters probably get the same thrill. Just amazing that they can just so suddenly pick that up from 100yds away and more sometimes. That hunt drive is so cool. The reward is almost an afterthought for these guys.
> 
> Craig



Super cool to watch a dog hit a scent cone at a dead run and then turn into and watch it shrink till you can almost point out where the person is hiding.


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