# Low Drive Handlers



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

So much seems to be written about the drive of the dogs. 

What would you do with a "low drive handler" in your club or training group? How do you motivate them? I've had kids in class with as much "get up and go" as frozen oatmeal!!! The overall vibes sent out by the handler DO play into the dog's drives.

We prong dogs and build the bite up on tie out lines...how do you handle the owner issue? What about the decoy who just shows up, smoke a pack of cigarettes, drinks coffee, shoots the breeze and doesn't get any training done for the week? Understand I don't have any of these issues...now where's my black coffee?:mrgreen:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

You mean, there are working dog folks who aren't hyper ??:???:


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I suspect.....Howard has to much time to himself #-o

another amazing topic !


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I don't think this is a bad topic at all. It might be stating the obvious to some, but it's an aspect of training that many might not think about. 

If you have a dog that enjoys working for it's handler (even if you don't), then energy, enthusasim and praise can really make a difference on how well a dog works. Flat, boring, montone handlers without much excitement aren't giving a dog any feedback when it's doing a good job and if compulsion is being used, then the correction is the strongest signal the dogs getting from it's handler.

I think were it really makes a differenc is training pups, it's going to be tough to keep their attention and get them excited about doing many things if the handler isn't sincere.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Thanks Adam...women!!!!
I like to build the puppy up with walk and talks, exploring as a team, I think, helps build the trust aspect. But what do I know...too much time on my hands. Say, that might make a song title some day!!!!:-\"


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm one of those "dull" people. I have a hard time getting all enthusiastic and being goofy in public. Not that I"m lazy, but it's not natural for me to be all "OMG so great!" bursting at the seams with enthusiasm. I'm getting better about that though.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Thanks Adam...women!!!!
> I like to build the puppy up with walk and talks, exploring as a team, I think, helps build the trust aspect. But what do I know...too much time on my hands. Say, that might make a song title some day!!!!:-\"



awwwwww  would you like some ice for your toes hun ? since I stepped on them so harshley 

to answer your ? tho....unmotivated handlers/decoys dont last long.....we are not on the field to motivate them into training a dog or doing decoy work, we are there to help them get somewhere with their dog or in their decoying but not to try and motivate them over and over, people like that are very shortlived where i come from. If you want to be a part of something you should put in the effort.

Mind you if a low drive handler means the handler is willing but just doesnt have that certain "thing" like exuberance per instance we will help them, if they are lazy fkers they can find the gate to the field and leave.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

ditto at Alice


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I'm one of those "dull" people. I have a hard time getting all enthusiastic and being goofy in public. Not that I"m lazy, but it's not natural for me to be all "OMG so great!" bursting at the seams with enthusiasm. I'm getting better about that though.


One of the ladies at a training asked me out of the blue a few years ago if I was comfortable with my sexuality? I replied yes, she then told me I needed to be "light in the loafers" when working a pup and not to worry about looking like a fool. One of those tips I won't forget, because I also found it funny how she addressed my lack of enthusiasm.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

If I was a dog I'd surely be called "no play drive with a very low threshold to defense"...LOL


that's why I like a dog that has enough drive for both of us.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Thanks Adam...women!!!!
> !:-\"


WTH is that supposed to mean ??

Folks who have not the energy and enthusiasm probably ought not to be training..... Take away some of the props.....like correction tools, and get them moving their ass after improving their attitude, and engaging their brain cells.

I have background in horse training, you don't use kit until you learn how to train without it....it is something you progress to. Those who are interested progress, that could maybe help with your 'low drive handlers' Howie .


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> WTH is that supposed to mean ??
> 
> Folks who have not the energy and enthusiasm probably ought not to be training..... Take away some of the props.....like correction tools, and get them moving their ass after improving their attitude, and engaging their brain cells.
> 
> I have background in horse training, you don't use kit until you learn how to train without it....it is something you progress to. Those who are interested progress, that could maybe help with your 'low drive handlers' Howie .


Maggie,

What you describe is one problem, but don't forget new handlers are learning as well. Some handlers (myself included when I first started) get caught up in what they are supposed to being doing and forget about praising and building up their dog in the process.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Adam Rawlings said:


> Maggie,
> 
> What you describe is one problem, but don't forget new handlers are learning as well. Some handlers (myself included when I first started) get caught up in what they are supposed to being doing and forget about praising and building up their dog in the process.



thats not unmotivated tho...thats being a green handler new to the game...this is about (or so i understood) lazy fkers with no movitation or incentive to do anything 

you can see the difference a mile away between the 2 !


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Adam Rawlings said:


> One of the ladies at a training asked me out of the blue a few years ago if I was comfortable with my sexuality? I replied yes, she then told me I needed to be "light in the loafers" when working a pup and not to worry about looking like a fool. One of those tips I won't forget, because I also found it funny how she addressed my lack of enthusiasm.


. 

Adam I think your absolutly right.

One of the hardest things for me that I had to figure out when I was a brand new handler was to - learn, stay focused (on me and the dog) and stay animated all at the same time. I believe that this is one of the hardest, and biggest obstacles for new handlers to overcome. Fortunately for me I have had some good and patient teachers.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

When folks say they are a brand new handler. what precisely do they mean ??

Have had pet dogs a long time but suddenly get interested in a discipline with a new dog/pup?

Have little to no experience with dogs but have decided to take up dog sport?

Haven't had a dog before?


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> When folks say they are a brand new handler. what precisely do they mean ??
> 
> Have had pet dogs a long time but suddenly get interested in a discipline with a new dog/pup?
> 
> ...


Maggie for me when I used the term "New Handler" I meant I was new to schutzhund.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Shane Woodlief said:


> Maggie for me when I used the term "New Handler" I meant I was new to schutzhund.


Had you trained a dog before ?


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Yes I had. But for me the "precision" of schutzhund was new for me. What really helped me in the understanding of the sport and the methodology was when I went to "Work Week" taught by Lance Collins.  Great week and a great methodological approach to training.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Howard: I used to belong to a club that allowed every tom dick and harry to join. The president was a very nice and accomodating person, and consequently people who really were half assed about sport joined. On warm nights when there was nothing good on TV everyone came out. The problem with this is it burns out the helper and dogs owned by lazy people never really progress anyway. It becomes nothing but a social gab and gossip club, and a complete waste of time. Plus it's kind of a slap in the face and an insult to those who are working their asses off with their dogs. 

If a person doesn't have the drive and the discipline to motivate themselves then I say F***'em, they are a waste of precious dog club space. Tell them about the nice doggie dancing club down the street.

A green person is different, but they still have to have the where with all to step up to the plate for themselves and shouldn't have to have fires lit under them.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Sounds like there's quite a bit of discussion going on here that's also about different things. It appears to me that Howard was talking about the type of person who is part of the club largely for the lack of something else to do and therefore really doesn't have the ambition to contribute in a measurable way. Seems to me that those type of people generally conduct all of their affairs in a similar manner. No real purpose, direction, or long term goals. You either cut the dead weight or learn to live with it if you choose to keep them around.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

In my K9 Unit, we call guys like that; road Troopers. when you have more applicants than positions, it helps.

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"If a person doesn't have the drive and the discipline to motivate themselves then I say F***'em, they are a waste of precious dog club space. Tell them about the nice doggie dancing club down the street."_

I don't think this is an apt analogy. Doggie dancing may not be my style, but from what I've seen, it's nothing for low-energy couch-potato handlers. :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> You mean, there are working dog folks who aren't hyper ??:???:



My wife says when I (ADHD handler) train my younger dog Trooper (ADHD dog) it's calls for getting out the lawn chair, a bag of pop corn and a soda pop. :-k..............8-[8-[


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

One of the nice things about the club I train with is the mix of handlers and dogs. There are good, experienced handlers and a lot of newer handlers. Not everyone in the club has a world class killer schutzhund dog... there's a few showline dogs in the club and a couple of off breeds as well. The TDs will work with everyone and their dog, regardless, but there is an expectation that everyone is there to work. Not just training, either. There are chores that need to be done around the club, whether it's general clean up and maintenance, or extra work when we hold a trial. Whatever. Everyone is expected to pitch in. That seems to be the nature of this club. If you don't want to be part of it, then don't join.

I've been doing this for a few years now - still haven't managed to title my dog past a BH, and I still consider myself a noob. For me it's one of those "the more I learn, the more I realize how much more there is to learn" things. We train indoors this time of year, so everyone is watching whoever is working a dog. It can be hard being centre stage, sometimes - I think many people are a bit shy about being goofy in public, or are just not animated and outgoing naturally, but there's a lot of encouragement, and also the chance to watch everyone else be as goofy as you. 

I think, too, for me, there are so many things to think about - holding the leash, timing the reward, timing the correction, worrying about body position, making sure the dog is correct, producing the reward - food or ball or whatever, that when my dog gets it right, I forget to communicate that with happy, upbeat verbal praise to the dog. So much to work on.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

there are owners who are just slow and methodical in everything they do, but they are still HIGHLY motivated to learn, it just doesn't get translated into action and animation at the right time and their timing sucks as a result. and they are usually lacking in the hand eye coordination area too  i'm dealing with a couple of people like this right now and since they ARE motivated and REALLY want to learn how to get better, and since they are paying me, i would be an a**hole to just tell em if they can't get "into it" and do it my way they should f**ck off, so if anyone HAS come up with some ways to motivate people with this type of personality and lack of motor skills i would be all ears.......

to me it's a very legitimate issue whether they want to get SchH titles or doggy dancer trophies
- i consider motivating the owner a basic part of my job, and never worked with one who couldn't use more. in most cases as they become better able to read their dog, which they are usually poor at when they start, it's enuff to get them self motivated, but my flooding technique (which i used to try all the time) usually just shuts em down as fast as it does to a dog
- but i also never pump up a person when they haven't done anything worth stroking just to build their confidence
....so maybe this rambling just points out i have personality problems myself 

related Q (maybe, for this type list) ... is it more important to train the dog or the owner if you can't do both at the same time and have to set a priority ??
(i'm talking pet issues here, like aggression, resource guarding, etc., not competition, ring or sport clubs, since that's all i seem to do now)


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Rik there is a BIG difference between someone with poor timing but who takes the training seriously and gives it their best shot, and someone who is only motivated to train when they can't find anything better to do. I don't know where you are, but where I am there isn't exactly a plethora of talented coaches/helpers. Therefore they can pick and choose from those who are looking to train seriously and those who aren't. They aren't looking to only work with the best handler/dogs but they certainly do only want to work with those who they don't have to motivate like a donkey to get up off their asses and train their dogs, both at formal training and at home on their own time. Believe me, there are plenty of people who WANT to do this right, the good trainers aren't losing a penny not coaching the lazy donkeys.


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