# Personal Protection Trainer



## Ewa Kozlowski (Jun 21, 2016)

Hi,
I am looking for a reputable personal protection trainer in New Jersey. I have such a tough time finding one. I checked internet and some come up but I cannot find out what kind are they. Good, bad, going to destroy my dog or my dog is going to be great after training with this person. Any suggestions will be appreciated.O


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The forum has been a bit slow lately. Hopefully someone will come on that can help.

Good on you for putting an effort into looking. The PPD world can be a maze to find a qualified trainer.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re : "I am looking for a reputable personal protection trainer in New Jersey."

1. if you join the forum correctly and provide a detailed background, you might get more specific help
2. I don't think we have any PP trainers in New Jersey on this list and none have been mentioned in any PPD threads. If they are here, they aren't posting, so if that's all you want, no need to read further 

3. PP is all about matching the right dog with the right handler for the right purpose. since we don't even know what breed of dog you have, what your PP requirements are, and what level of dog skills you currently have, YOU should provide them 

4. For most people who know how to evaluate a dog, a balanced, athletic well trained rescue dog can make a great PPD. But most people want MORE and think it will require a specialised form of training from a specific breed type. That is only true in some cases 

5. no matter what kind of dog own, you can certainly waste a lot of money selecting a PPD trainer from internet searches or someone's personal opinion. 

** Most importantly, and no matter how good the trainer is, YOU will be the ultimate trainer for your dog and YOU will need to have the skill sets to maintain its training, proficiency and safety !!

and i'm also assuming you realize a dog is only ONE component of PP; not an end-all, do-it-all PP asset

there are MANY PPD related threads here if you spend the time and effort to look for them.....there is some good info......and all free too ;-)

sorry this was not what you were looking for, but thanks for stopping by. hope you join and stay awhile


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## Ewa Kozlowski (Jun 21, 2016)

Thank you for your wise and precise answer. I am a member and I thought there was only one way to join it.

I have a Giant Schnauzer 14 months old pet. Because I take him for a walk to the woods every day I was hoping he can be trained to be a protection dog. Because I do not know much about the training and trainers, my question was to members of this forum if they know any good and honest trainer. I will not be able to recognize the unprofessional one.
Sorry if I was not precise.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

sounds like a good prospect !
what do you do on your walks ?
what kind of control do you have now ?

1. will he stay with you on the walks and can you make him start and STOP barking vigorously on command ?
2. will he fetch a tug and grip it vigorously, bring it back to you and release it when you tell him to release it ?
3. if you let him off lead can you still recall him when he is distracted ?

if the answers are yes, he's probably already got what it takes and for many people that would be enough since he's already intimidating and that would prevent most problems before they even become problems

if 1-3 are not solid, get them rock solid first and that shouldn't require a professional PPD trainer. there are many members here who can walk you thru that part of your training and i would consider it a minimum set you need


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Pretty much what Rick said.

The "average" person doesn't need anything more then a dog with a good threat display.

If you seriously need a true protection dog you need to consider a conceal and carry because in that situation the dog is used basically for you to get to a weapon.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

if you don't have a rock solid 100% reliable recall it will be useless no matter how much "bitework" training it gets. and unsafe out in the real world.......JME, but 90% of my customers don't have a solid recall when any level of distraction is put on the dog, so i always make them start there

if it won't bite and hold no PPD trainer will consider it capable of protecting you and i personally wouldn't want a PPD trainer to be the first one to agitate MY dog to see if it will bite and engage a human

you still haven't defined what kind of 'protection' you want from the dog, or what else you intend to use for your PP like Bob suggested, but ANY PPD trainer WILL do bitework, and if your dog is not under your control you will be training a dog that can be dangerous in public, and i consider walking in the woods to be in public 

if you can't properly tug with it yet, you have a long way to go before you should consider turning it over for a PPD trainer to work with it.....in my opinion of course 

pups and young dogs can certainly be taught these basic skills so please explain where you are at now 
....the fact that you described it as a pet is irrelevant.....pets can work too


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## Ewa Kozlowski (Jun 21, 2016)

After reading you answers I would like a dog that will alert me to any danger and behave like he will bite. 
Somebody once described a dog that I would like to be:
"A PPD should not leave it's person. It is not there to chase people or to run them off. Protection dogs should always remain with the person they are protecting. On every occasion when someone was in or attempting to get into my house, Sabi remained silent and with me, because it wasn't the house she was protecting.
As a rough example, at approximately 20 feet Sabs would let me know they were there, at approximately 10 feet she would warn them off, at anything nearing arms length, under 6 feet, she would engage a threat. If they backed away she let them, if they gave up she let them. If at any point I asked her to leave it she would and if at any point I asked her to watch it she would. If I was down she maintained a perimeter. And while she recognized uniforms, she did warn a couple of officers for walking up to close behind me. 
Rather then lunging, barking fools, PPD's must be in most cases the best of the best. They need to be able to discern between the general public and a threat, they must be able to override their desire to chase and remain on alert to protect all without burning out or making a mistake."
Does it make sense?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

There is no need for the dog to chase after someone if the threat is no longer present.

If you dog chased someone into the street and bit the person you could easily be in lots of trouble.

Teach the dog to alert on the doorbell/knock. 

At 14 months old a good GS is not far away from maturing as an adult and they can be very intimidating if not kept under control. 

I agree 100% on getting a 100% solid recall....for any occasion.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Ewa Kozlowski said:


> I have a Giant Schnauzer 14 months old pet. Because I take him for a walk to the woods every day I was hoping he can be trained to be a protection dog.


Protection from what?


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## Ewa Kozlowski (Jun 21, 2016)

More like alert from strange people walking the woods after dark.


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## Ewa Kozlowski (Jun 21, 2016)

Strange people in the woods.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

you and your dog walking in the woods at night might be just as strange to the strange people too....mutual respect and paranoia goes both ways 

what's your dog alert mean to you ?
all it means to me is to be aware.....no more no less; and most dogs are more alert than their handler


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

you haven’t answered my other Q’s so i don’t expect this last one to be answered either, but i’ll continue my train of thought since there’s always a slim chance other new members might be reading this thread 

you wrote : "After reading you answers I would like a dog that will alert me to any danger and behave like he will bite. “
…then later you gave a more specific example of 'walking in the woods at night'….

well, if I’M walking in those same woods, I wouldn’t know you and your dog, and that would make me a total stranger too.
but … when we came across each other, if your dog “alerted” and acted like it was gonna bite me, that would make YOU an IRRESPONSIBLE dog owner :-(
- I detest owners who let their dog light up on people just because they come close to them because they think their dog is being “protective” :-(
- If my dog every acted like that it would get a SWIFT and HARSH correction followed by my verbal apology to the stranger
- and of course “close” is a relative term, but i hope you catch my drift, and clearly that was what you were describing in your example

furthermore, It’s easy to say one can give their dog some sort of “watch” or “look” command and it will instantly become a PPD if needed. That’s just a lot of talk that you read all over the internet. in reality, it’s not that simple and i’m not gonna waste time pointing out the details of how this is NOT so simple to train.
- but it’s similar to the example of the “somebody” you quoted about the perfect PPD you would like to be (LOL)
- i’m not going to go into details of what was wrong about that quote, but I do know who the author was. The dog she described is unfortunately dead, but she also had another dog that would bite people in public and ‘solved' that problem … by muzzling that dog in public :-( 
…...She is CERTAINLY not a PPD trainer either. If you invite her to join this forum, she can speak for herself and defend that quote

Like i said in the beginning of this thread, if you could accomplish the three training goals i mentiond, you would have a nice dog and your training skills would improve VASTLY. I suggest you stop dreaming about making it a PPD until you have mastered these BASIC handling skills……regardless of what you consider the ‘perfect’ PPD

a ‘perfect' PPD is a dog that you can control 100% in ANY situation. It must be NON reactive in public, to the extent it almost appars social. It must be able to instantly switch gears and engage a human IF the handler is threatened. and by “engage”, i most definitely mean BITE and not let go until the owner/handler commands it to out. THAT is easy to say, but, the owner or handler must be the one to throw the switch, not the dog. I could give you a hundred scenarios of why this is required, but they are all hypothetical. 
......and perfect dogs like the one described in the quote are like unicorns //LOL//

back to the real world…..
- what are the chances your life will be threatened by another human ? is meeting a stranger when you are out walking your dogs in the woods a potentially life threatening situation ? probably not  do you need a PPD to walk in the woods ? probably not 
- do you need common sense and situational awareness ?
- ABSOLUTELY !

do you have the control over your dog that is needed when you are out ? probably not 

take my advice and DO IT and then post a video you can be proud of and I will be happy to eat my words //LOL//

walk before you run and improve your handling skills every day
find out what potential your dog has, and develop it to the max

that’s how i see it. yes, i could be wrong and maybe you need the services of a PPD trainer, but that doesn’t make my advice a waste of your time to try out 
…..i only took the time to post this because it might make sense and help other readers....it's rare but every now and then it happens


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

but wait ..... there's more !!!!! //LOL//

here's a bonus tip for all those who need PPD's when they are out alone

pencil flares !
1. almost as good as packing a weapon without any of the legal problems
2. user friendly compared to weapons training. VERY short learning curve
3. CHEAP....buy a few and have ready access throughout your property
4. Great deterrent as a stand off weapon used in self defense in a life threatening situation. fire and forget. VERY few scumbags will keep coming once a red hot flare bounces off them
5. can also be used as a signalling device  ....but don't leave home without your bear spray !


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## Ewa Kozlowski (Jun 21, 2016)

Hi Rick,
I am so glad I posted my question on this board. Your answers are goldmines of knowledge!
I am going to carefully reread every one of them but I already know what to do. 
You are right. The description of a PPD dog that the other person posted sounded idyllic. I am a newbie owner who instead of dreaming of a perfect dog, should concentrate on obedience training, especially that I am not really sure I want my dog to bite anybody.
I wish more people would that honest instead of promising stars and the moon to the newbies. If you were a trainer in NJ I would be the first one to sign up for your services. 
Thank you again and I wish you a happy and healthy New Year!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

TX for having an open mind and thicker skin than many visitors to the WDF 

never had the pleasure of working with your breed. But lots of schnauzers on the opposite size scale here with owners who have no clue they were bred to be ratters and guard dogs and are surprised when they act be a bit snarky 
- and most of the owners spend more on their clothes and haircuts than on their food :-(


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I personally have no issue with a dog that will bark when it sees someone while walking in the woods AS LONG AS the dog can be controlled and will quiet down on command.

The flare idea can help but I wouldn't try it in the woods. 

As mentioned, get the obedience solid and when the dog matures then you can think about the PPD thing IF needed.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

....fire in the woods, etc

I understand no one wants to start a forest fire....'why i said it was for use "in a LIFE THREATENING situation". 
- But in my opinion, for people who don't carry firearms, it beats trying to find a stick or rock, and if one would get lost or incapacitated, makes an instant fire starter, and that could be a life saver too 

barking doesn't bother me at all. dogs who bark in my face DO if the owner can't shut em up //LOL//


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Bear spray and a fire starter would make a great deterrent when used together. 

That would look like a WWII flame thrower. :-o:-D :wink:


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