# This decoy needs some beating himself



## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol2TTR-xwGY&feature=related

I don't know why this guy is allowed to train dogs at all.](*,)


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

uhhh... what was going on here? Was this some type of event? 0.o Wow.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

I have no idea, i think it was in Russia. The dogs would have performed better with a more sane decoy.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol2TTR-xwGY&feature=related
> 
> I don't know why this guy is allowed to train dogs at all.](*,)


I didn't watch the whole clip because its just too long. I only watched the first 50s. I've seen a video similar to this, but w/ much more difficulty, in the past. I believe it IS an "event," and I think the decoy is testing not helping or babying the dogs. He seems to be catching and driving the h*ll out of them. I'm not sure as I did not feel like sitting through the whole thing, but that's what it looked like in the beginning.

Yeah. I watched a bit more and I have seen this before. It's a test not training. Dog won't be getting any help there.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Well if that's the case maybe its the handlers that need beating. Its obvious the dogs weren't trained to handle that kind of training.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

I have not watched yet but is it Russian Ring ?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

What did you see that was wrong with it. He was bailing on the courage test not coming straight in, but that will help a dog not hurt him, making side to side prey movement. He gave prey bites when they wouldn't engage. He actually sets them down in a few cases and lets them readjust before the drive. He is not cracking a stick across their back, it is just a padded stick and he isnt even doing that hard. I would have this guy work my dog without too much issue. He even clapped at one point for a ladies dog.

If your dog can't handle this, keep in training before showing it to him or her. 

Saw a lot more dog issues than decoy. Didn't finish the last two minutes. Seemed like more of the same.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol2TTR-xwGY&feature=related
> 
> I don't know why this guy is allowed to train dogs at all.](*,)


 That decoy could work my dogs any day of the week.

I did not watch to whole thing but the dogs I saw were very weak. Should not ever be concidered real but would be fun for a novice to get into sport.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

They looked like there's no shortage of dog food in Russia the dog at 6:30 looked OK


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Mike Scheiber said:


> They looked like there's no shortage of dog food in Russia the dog at 6:30 looked OK


lol, lots of taters, fat


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

I saw lots of fat, over-sized and poorly trained black and silver Shepherds. Whatever the reason for the gene pool most of these dogs were drawn from, they sure achieved consistency within the lines! More than half of them looked friggin identical, and were equally underwhelming in the "work?". 
Didn't see any big problems with the decoy, though. He seemed likewise consistent with the dogs and whatever the purpose of the test/contest was.


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## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

I saw some pretty sad dogs. And without knowing what they are doing, I really didn't see the helper doing anything that bad. I don't think it was a trail because the helper didn't take dogs on the same path or routine. The dogs were put in a position they were not ready for. Mostly frontal bites, a few non-engagers. I also didn't see a judge there so I assume it was testing of some sort or even worse, a public demo. I saw some weak handlers that the dogs seemed scared of. I want to see a dog get empowered when then handler approaches. They should be thinking "Here comes Dad/Mom, now we are really going to kick your ass". When I see a dog try and get away from the handler- that's a huge red flag.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Tobi,

I have to ask you again... 

Did you contact the youtube poster and ask any questions about what was being done, before you come on a message board and state that thay guy deserves a beating and that he should not be allowed to train dogs at all?

The title means "working class 3". I watched the "working class 2" video and the was almost no pressure put on the dogs, it was a different decoy...

In both videos there appears to be a large setup, and lots of dogs and people, this tells me that this is an event of some sort.

It appears that there are judges of some kind in there as well, or at least organizers..

This means to me that this guy may be a hired decoy to work what appears to be some sort of event.

It does NOT look like a training seminar or training session to me at all.
It does look like some sort of TEST (courage test maybe) or Contest of some sort...

It also appears that the people MAY have been given a choice to try the suit or the sleeve.

I saw that the decoy was trying to be fair and test the dogs equally, but as he saw what the average skills of the dogs was, he did adjust his style and started moving laterally, which he probably was not even supposed to do, it was probably done without thinking, once he saw that the dogs were not performing well...he probably helped the dogs he should NOT have helped..

I did not see him helping the failing dogs get their confidence back at all until the "exercise" or "test" or whatever it was, was complete, and the people came and picked up their dogs.

After that I did see him help out almost every dog to get them to bite (him) and send them off, hopefully in a better spot than they were.

He was probably given specific instructions on what to do, and how to do it. 

Although he might have done the "easy bites" a little differently than some other people would have, it looks like it worked to me.

The one dog that totally bailed on the suit, they let the dog sit and brought him back out, and went to sleeve, and then he got dog to bite the suit...I may not have done it the way he did, but I am not him and was not working that dog, and it did work.

This appears to be a case of people entering dogs into some kind of test, or contest, and many of the dogs were not prepared to handle that "exercise", I think the guy did the best he could with what was in front of him.

If anything I blame the handlers, they might not have known how much presence the guy was gonna have when they signed up, but after watching the first dog up, they could have scratched their dogs, and pulled them, and not went through with the testing (or whatever it was).

If it is a test or a contest it would be unfair for him to "help" the dogs, I think he did make adjustments to make it a little easier, and he probably was not even supposed to do that...this did not look like training.

I would also hazard a guess that if that guy does train dogs, the dogs he trained would most likely do better than most of the dogs on that video.

I liked the guy's work, and his attitude towards the dogs.

I like you Tobi, you have a lot of enthusiasm about dogs, and are getting out to learn as much as you can, that is a great thing.

Try not to be one of those guys that looks at videos, and then posts on the net how crappy the decoy is, or insult the training being done, without knowing what is being done, or why it is being done, 100%.

Dogs fail in this manner in all dogsports, dogs bail on Schutzhund courage tests, they get ran by barrages in French Ring, they get scared off the object by an octopus masks in the Mondio World Championships....

It is not the decoy's job in a testing or competition setting to provide help to weak or unprepared dogs.


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

If you look behind the guy about to send the dog, there's another dog waiting in line. Plus there's gunfire after the dog is on the sleeve. What kind of event does that?

Google translater says the title is "working klas3"

I thought the helper helped the dogs a bit. I don't think he bailed on the courage test as much as saw the dog was about to bail and went into the side movement to help the dog. I didn't watch the whole thing.

The dogs were consistent, Kristina was right. 

Laura
P.S. Oops looks like Joby and I posted at the same time.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I didn't think the decoy was all that bad either. Can see he can read dogs and adjust for their lack of...everything. I watched the whole thing because I was expecting the decoy to start wailing on dogs but that never happened. He was wanting to test them but you can see he backed off and even took the sleeve off for one dog and swung it side to side. Anything to get the dog to try. 

Looks like some sort of fun event where people who don't even train, come out to test their dogs. How many outted? 1 or 2. Talk about Holy Malamutes and what do these folks feed? Wow very conformed dogs, I was wondering at the begining if this was a kennel thing, (all the dogs related). Just too bad their nerves looked as close as their conformation.


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

"I don't know why this guy is allowed to train dogs at all.







"

What are you talking about... it's the trainers and the dogs who's weakness he is exposing in a trial situation. The only thing that I didn't like was the placement of the stick on the lock up... causing the dogs not to out... JMO 
But most of the time he was helping the dogs after their weak nerves and poor training were exposed! This is a trial and he was more than fair. I think he did his job well... and even went beyond the call of duty trying to help these weak dogs to engage after they FAILED the trial.
Eric


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Nice post Joby, Laura, Michelle and Mr. Eric..could not agree more. I asked my neighbor who is from the mother land...He told me he believes that majority of the dogs in the video are East European shepherds. It is a breed show, that has confirmation and bite work. Similar to the GSD/Rotties ect... breed surveys.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I think the problem was the huskies . they are not really cut out for bite work. I think if he had used German shepherds the dogs would have done better


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

The person that posted the video replied to me and said it was courage testing. Level 3

whatever that means.....


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> The person that posted the video replied to me and said it was courage testing. Level 3
> 
> whatever that means.....


Wow, those dogs passed previous tests.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Black and silver seemed to be the norm. Looked to be all from the same breeder and all "around" the same age. Maybe it was some kind of comp. put on by the kennel?

As for the decoy, it didn't look to be a training session, so what's your beef? His work was safe, so unless you know the context of the work, you can't be too quick to judge.

You must be in a "great decoy rich" area if you think that guy sucks!

Tim


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

After reading all the posts i have to admit i mis-judged what the guy was doing. I thought it was some sort of training session for newbies. I apologize for the title of the post.
Joby thanks for your kind words, hopefully i'll be wise enough not to post something like this next time.

Thanks guys!!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Did you just admit that you were wrong on WDF? Is that allowed?




Good for you Toby. Stand up guys are hard to find.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

christopher smith said:


> did you just admit that you were wrong on wdf? Is that allowed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



amen!


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