# Dry Kibble Dog Food



## Bianca Soler (Dec 4, 2010)

We currently feed our puppies Canidae. Your thoughts?

http://www.canidae.com/dogs/all_life_stages/dry.html


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Never tried it so can't comment, other than the name reminds me of something like a yeast infection.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Bianca Soler said:


> We currently feed our puppies Canidae. Your thoughts?
> 
> http://www.canidae.com/dogs/all_life_stages/dry.html


I would not use it just because they have a show shepherd on their web site


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

I know of people who feed only that, and it seems to work for them. I tried it once and didn't make it through a bag. None of my dogs tooks to it very well.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I feed mainly raw, however, my dogs get kibble daily as well. (I don't mix the two at one meal though)

I change brands every month or two. I switch between Nutro Lamb and Rice, Wellness, Innova and Chicken Soup. 

I tried Canidae before and like Brian, none of my dogs really tolerated it well.


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Bianca Soler said:


> We currently feed our puppies Canidae. Your thoughts?
> 
> http://www.canidae.com/dogs/all_life_stages/dry.html


It's a decent kibble, but it does contain a lot of grain


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

They got sold out and the new company cheapened the ingredients. I don't like their use of sunflower oil. Few years ago there was a study (in Sweden, I think?) and it was found to be carcinogenic. Sunflower oil got real cheap real fast because no one wanted to use it anymore.

I used to feed them awhile ago but not anymore. They do have other varieties these days, including a grain free.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Few years ago there was a study (in Sweden, I think?) and it was found to be carcinogenic. Sunflower oil got real cheap real fast because no one wanted to use it anymore.


Well, just about any vegetable oil heated high enough (or rancid) becomes carcinogenic.

Sunflower oil outside of commercial dog food (where there's a long-baking and extrusion process, often at very high heat) actually shows some ANTI-carcinogenic potential.

But frying, boiling, high-heat baking -- these are nutritional crimes against good fats that are high in PUFAs. Unfortunately, sunflower oil is indeed loaded with PAHs (something something hydrocarbons) when it has been heated to high temps. (I remember that study, I think -- they chose sunflower oil because huge chunks of the population in India, I think(?) and maybe other countries(?) rely heavily on sunflower oil for deep frying and stir-frying, and often re-use it.)




eta

Bad: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20886885

Maybe good: http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...42b3a6e37ea2bc93bb9a620b54abe9e0&searchtype=a


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## Dominic Rozzi (Aug 2, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Well, just about any vegetable oil heated high enough (or rancid) becomes carcinogenic.
> 
> Sunflower oil outside of commercial dog food (where there's a long-baking and extrusion process, often at very high heat) actually shows some ANTI-carcinogenic potential.
> 
> ...


i use it for a while, the dogs did ok on it, using a food now named native, there is four levels available and a puppy formula, they are doing super on it, the level 3 seems to be the best seller, for dogs that hard to put the weight on the levle four works for my dogs


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## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

used to use it, still would if i didnt have to make the long drive to buy it


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

looks B level at best (chicken meal instead of chicken as the first item, plus the grains)


compare it to this, which seems to be considered the best around


http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/puppyLargeIngredients.aspx



*there have been a few good threads about different dog foods, maybe do a thread search on 'dog food'

**and its almost fascinating how little many people know, from vets recommending science diet, to dog people saying "-----" is a great product, then you read whats in it and its garbage


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> looks B level at best (chicken meal instead of chicken as the first item, plus the grains)
> 
> 
> compare it to this, which seems to be considered the best around
> ...


 
Yup. Lots of info on dog food here. I currently feed Orijen. If Im not feeding raw, thats what I go to.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Dominic Rozzi said:


> .... using a food now named native, there is four levels available and a puppy formula, they are doing super on it, the level 3 seems to be the best seller, for dogs that hard to put the weight on the levle four works for my dogs




Just looked it up. Is it inexpensive? Level 1's first four ingredients:

Lamb Meal, Ground Rice, Ground Oats, Ground Barley .....


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

^ that means we think its crap


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## Deb Randolph (Mar 4, 2008)

I've fed Canidae ALS for several years and currently have 7 GSDs on it (ages 8 mos- 9 years). 
Never had a problem with their switch to the new formula. Coats are good, no problems maintaining
weights, stools are healthy. I have recently tried (3 mos ago) one of my females that I'm working 
to the grain free formula and am happy with it also. 
I have read of others having problems with Canidae but that hasn't been my experience. 

Deb
Enja vom Teichblick
Zarek ze Stribrneho kamene


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Bianca Soler said:


> We currently feed our puppies Canidae. Your thoughts?
> 
> My thoughts on what? I don’t get it?


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Canidae is a very good food, they have a grain free ALS variety also.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> ^ that means we think its crap



:lol: :lol:

Well, at least no wheat gluten. But the reason I asked about cost was that for all that grain, "Native" had better at least be inexpensive.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> ^ that means we think its crap


http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php/product/1355


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sue DiCero said:


> http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php/product/1355


WOW!

This is Level 3. I was listing info on Level 1.

I'd have had harsher words than Dog Food Analysis does on the Level 3 ingredient list, including a louder warning on the fat. Cooked fat (VERY cooked, kibble-cooked) doesn't belong in 2nd place on an IL list for dog food.

As we've talked about lots of times, increasing the fat in a healthy dog's diet (for an un-thrifty dog or a hard-working lean dog) IMO means adding raw fat. 

For a kibble-fed dog, I would add cold-pressed oils and for a raw-fed dog I would add either the oils or raw animal fat -- both gradually. (Diarrhea is far easier to avoid than to fix.) 


I would not buy that food. Thanks for the link, Sue.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> ^ that means we think its crap




Having seen Level 3, yes, it does. :lol:


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Connie,

No problem. Would not feed this food when we 1st heard of it since we look at the upper levels for what we would be feeding. Then found the analysis, which back up what vet studies were stating about fat being in the 1st 4 ingredients not being good.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sue DiCero said:


> Connie,
> 
> No problem. Would not feed this food when we 1st heard of it since we look at the upper levels for what we would be feeding. ...



It's sort of like the manufacturer gleaned a little knowledge about how canine athletes use fat and then went no further. A perfect example of how a tiny bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Matt Grosch said:


> looks B level at best (chicken meal instead of chicken as the first item, plus the grains)
> 
> 
> compare it to this, which seems to be considered the best around
> ...


I just switched my female Mal to this based in part on what people here had said and based on the dogfoodanalysis website. She's very gassy now, and I'll be taking her off of this asap and putting her back on this:

http://www.beforegrain.com/

I cycle between the chicken, salmon, and buffalo.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

We like the Acana better - Origen is really high on the protein.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Well, just about any vegetable oil heated high enough (or rancid) becomes carcinogenic.
> 
> Sunflower oil outside of commercial dog food (where there's a long-baking and extrusion process, often at very high heat) actually shows some ANTI-carcinogenic potential.
> 
> But frying, boiling, high-heat baking -- these are nutritional crimes against good fats that are high in PUFAs. Unfortunately, sunflower oil is indeed loaded with PAHs (something something hydrocarbons) when it has been heated to high temps. (I remember that study, I think -- they chose sunflower oil because huge chunks of the population in India, I think(?) and maybe other countries(?) rely heavily on sunflower oil for deep frying and stir-frying, and often re-use it.)


Ah, ok. I remember just bits of the study...been a few years since I read it. Good to know.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Do you and your dog a great service. Feed natural raw diet. After seeing the results you will never go back to kibble. The advantages of this kind of diet are so many that I dont have time or energy to post. We changed a few years back and will NEVER feed kibble again. Especially to our working dogs.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I'd been feeding Sams Club Endeavor and switched to Cost Co
Kirkland Signature Chicken Rice and Vegetables based on their high ratings................three of my dogs have the hershey squirts now :-(
Is there that much difference between the two?
I plan on buying some more Endeavor and start mixing 1/2 n 1/2 for awhile.


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## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

I have found people who like or dis like it. I feed earthborn when I do feed kibble. Most of the time its raw. The thing I have found is if it worksbfor your dog then keepbat it. When trying to do the best for there dogs you can loose focus.
Jm2c


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Ryan Venables said:


> I just switched my female Mal to this based in part on what people here had said and based on the dogfoodanalysis website. She's very gassy now, and I'll be taking her off of this asap and putting her back on this:
> 
> http://www.beforegrain.com/
> 
> I cycle between the chicken, salmon, and buffalo.




I havent looked at the other brand but I noticed with orijen my dog did have some loose stools, almost seemed like it took a month or so before everything was running as it should for him, and now he will have some looseness once and a while


it took even longer for the raw chicken to work well for him and that still gives him the squirts maybe 20% of the time

I alternate the kibble and raw chicken


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I'd been feeding Sams Club Endeavor and switched to Cost Co
> Kirkland Signature Chicken Rice and Vegetables based on their high ratings................three of my dogs have the hershey squirts now :-(
> Is there that much difference between the two?
> I plan on buying some more Endeavor and start mixing 1/2 n 1/2 for awhile.



That's what I would do too, only all old, then 3/4 old 1/4 new, then upping new only when you see log poops.

You want to see normal logs so that you know the gut has calmed back down from being inflamed (as it is now). As we all know, you can see diarrhea off and on for ages if you don't cut way back to where they have logs before re-adding anything new.

A day's fast first is a good idea, IMO.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

looks pretty good

http://www.beforegrain.com/pdfs/BG-Dog-Dry.pdf

a little less protein and meat in it



http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/puppyLargeIngredients.aspx


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Sue DiCero said:


> We like the Acana better - Origen is really high on the protein.



but thats a good thing


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

depends. I like a bit lower for young dogs. Higher is fine for our working dogs, since they are worked daily.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

(not arguing, but just asking) why?


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Matt Grosch said:


> (not arguing, but just asking) why?


Too much protein at a young age can encourage faster growth than normal which can lead to too much stress on joints and so forth.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Amy Swaby said:


> Too much protein at a young age can encourage faster growth than normal which can lead to too much stress on joints and so forth.


Exactly.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

not arguing that, I dont know enough about that issue, but I wonder if it has any similarity to the 'too much protein being bad for the kidneys' myth


any good links/articles would be appreciated


(kinda makes me curious since I went with orijen puppy and it is the highest protein but also the highest rated)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

When I researched this topic, I seem to remember overall caloric content and calcium being far more important than protein content.

Too many calories...too much calcium...for large breed pups is inviting problems...regardless of protein levels, dog will grow too fast.


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## Nick Jenkins (Oct 4, 2010)

Joby is right when they grow toofast they have some issues. Take a look at puppy vs. Large breed puppy food. Less calories. Also the calciumhosphorus ratio is very important for all growing animals. So getting that right is key. If I am correct rotties have some of the most problems with this(HD due to growing to fast) and need to be fed carefully as a pup.


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## Nick Jenkins (Oct 4, 2010)

Calcium : phosphorus


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Have you tried a double whopper with cheese? Gnash insists on no pickles and extra onions.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I use Before Grain Buffalo, Go! Naturals Endurance Formula, Nature's Domain Salmon and Purina Pro Plan Shredded Blend Lamb and Rice. I rotate through the kibbles. 

Judge and the old dog get RAW at least 3 days a week.


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## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

Canidae: used to be good, got very lame. Coats got ashen, loosey stools...all subsequent to formula changing. Gotta love buyouts. 

With various dogs in the past we have tried various kibbles for longer periods of time. Red Meat Innova Evo seemed best...then again, they recently got bought out again with an impending formula change. Lame. 

Want to see white teeth, great breath (for a dog), ripply muscles, awesome coats, and very small, powdery poops? 

Raw. 

Chicken, beef, parts, eggs, cottage cheese, a rare few veggies, pet vites, superfuel and on occasion, Nupro.


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## Shawndra Drury (Jun 28, 2010)

Lily is currently eating The Honest Kitchen Force and various raw parts. We'll be moving to primarily raw as we run out. My family produces natural beef, why not use it?

Scout the foster is still on Acana. I have a hunch raw would maybe put some meat on her hip bones (rest of her is normal & perfectly muscular with fantastic coat and high energy, but topline is bony). But the odds of her adopter feeding raw aren't that great, so she mostly just gets Acana with the odd raw treat.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Shawndra Drury said:


> Lily is currently eating The Honest Kitchen Force and various raw parts. We'll be moving to primarily raw as we run out.



THK is one of the best foods around, IMO. A THK and RMB diet is hard to improve on, and particularly for a "bridge" between kibble and all-raw.

In fact, I use THK as a semi-regular "gravy" over the dogs' balanced raw diet just for added variety.


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