# Handler/Owner fighting attacker



## Dee Harrison (Apr 16, 2009)

If the handler/owner is fighting an attacker, who is the dog going to bite? Is the dog trained to distinguigh handler from attacker? Or, in the heat of the moment, is the dog going to bite anyone that he can without distinguishing handler from attacker? I am picturing a home invasion scenario, or something similar, where the dog doesn't necessarily see the initial attack and comes upon the fight already in progress.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Dee Harrison said:


> If the handler/owner is fighting an attacker, who is the dog going to bite? Is the dog trained to distinguigh handler from attacker? Or, in the heat of the moment, is the dog going to bite anyone that he can without distinguishing handler from attacker? I am picturing a home invasion scenario, or something similar, where the dog doesn't necessarily see the initial attack and comes upon the fight already in progress.


In at least 50% of the time the dog will bite the attacker, so there is nothing to worry about. LOL


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jon Naroditsky had a seminar where he had Pedro Vianna demonstrate working with your dog in fighting off an attacker. I didn't get to go, just saw the flyer and had to be reminded who it was that did the self-defense with your dog aspect. If anybody went, feel free to chime in a/o correct me. Here's Pedro's website, he's a BJJ guy.

http://www.pedrovianna.com/

I thought it sounded pretty cool. Anyway, in that aspect, I would imagine the dog would probably be more attuned to joining with you and more likely to bite the right person. That's just a hunch though more than anything. I just thought it was interesting and quasi-relevant.

-Cheers


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Oh no... last time we talked about this beer cans and bottles were being thrown through computer screens! #-o


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Matthew Grubb said:


> Oh no... last time we talked about this beer cans and bottles were being thrown through computer screens! #-o


I had to laugh when I saw this thread as well....


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

agree with Matthew and Kyle....
I also say, let the dog get the bad guy, you get out of the way and go get your gun:-\"


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## Dee Harrison (Apr 16, 2009)

Matthew Grubb said:


> Oh no... last time we talked about this beer cans and bottles were being thrown through computer screens! #-o


Please direct me to the thread where this was covered before. Thanks


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

Dee Harrison said:


> If the handler/owner is fighting an attacker, who is the dog going to bite? Is the dog trained to distinguigh handler from attacker? Or, in the heat of the moment, is the dog going to bite anyone that he can without distinguishing handler from attacker? I am picturing a home invasion scenario, or something similar, where the dog doesn't necessarily see the initial attack and comes upon the fight already in progress.


If the owner got to the attacker first then the ppd obviously wasn't doing his/her job to begin with. JMOThe only instance when I would say this might not be the exception is if the attacker enters the bedroom window after hours.


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

also... if the handler gets there first and the attacker falls to the ground.... well thats a gift for the BJJ handler haha


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Put a muzzle on (on the dog) and play around.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Pull guard on the bad guy while he gets chomped on from above......make him the meat in a sandwich of pain


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm not sure about that I'd be always looking to pass guard and get side control haha


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

50% of the time, ha thats funny right there

seems like a training thing
we train attacks on handler where the decoy will grab the handler with the dog a distance away
the dog attacks and we have never had a handler bit issue

seems you could train it witht he dog further away, then around corners, other rooms then move to the floor later

i would worry a small bit about pack behavior
seems to me dogs like to join a winning team instinctively
and friends or not if a bunch of dogs ar beating up another one, i have seen timid wimp dogs jump in on the side of the bullys


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Anyone want to make a bet on which the dog will bite if the owner is on the ground getting his butt handed to him?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Anyone want to make a bet on which the dog will bite if the owner is on the ground getting his butt handed to him?



it's deje vu all over again. ha ha.

DFrost


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

Let's say there was once a man in a bar who was so irate and angry and drunk and intimidating that a nice man had to come and help persuade this bad man to leave the bar. The nice man decided to bring along a GSD and was in a position in his life where it was a customary thing for the nice man to go everywhere with a GSD. Upon talking to the intimidating man, the nice man realized there was going to be trouble so he asked his GSD to stay sharp. The nice man was very young and the intimidating man was much older and skilled. In the course of trying to be nice, the nice man caught an elbow in the temple and was knocked out cold. At this point, the GSD decided to make the intimidating man's acquaintance while the nice man was laid out cold on the bar room floor. While this sounds like a terrible thing for the nice man, it was much more of a problem for the intimidating man who had jumped the bar, all of him except for his arm which was being held on the other side of the bar by the GSD until the nice man's friends could arrive. 

What's the lesson? Take care of the dog and the dog will take care of you. It's either that or watch out for the left shoulder fake followed by a right elbow.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Jason Caldwell said:


> Let's say there was once a man in a bar who was so irate and angry and drunk and intimidating that a nice man had to come and help persuade this bad man to leave the bar. The nice man decided to bring along a GSD and was in a position in his life where it was a customary thing for the nice man to go everywhere with a GSD. Upon talking to the intimidating man, the nice man realized there was going to be trouble so he asked his GSD to stay sharp. The nice man was very young and the intimidating man was much older and skilled. In the course of trying to be nice, the nice man caught an elbow in the temple and was knocked out cold. At this point, the GSD decided to make the intimidating man's acquaintance while the nice man was laid out cold on the bar room floor. While this sounds like a terrible thing for the nice man, it was much more of a problem for the intimidating man who had jumped the bar, all of him except for his arm which was being held on the other side of the bar by the GSD until the nice man's friends could arrive.
> 
> What's the lesson? Take care of the dog and the dog will take care of you. It's either that or watch out for the left shoulder fake followed by a right elbow.


 
Nice Fantasy


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

Hey Kyle,

Are you saying I'm full of shit? I don't like to take time away from my evening so that a total stranger can tell me I'm full of shit.

Or, are you saying that your fantasy is to have a dog that would help you out in a similar situation instead of gladly going home with the guy who knocked you out? Please, clarify.


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## Mike D'Abruzzo (Oct 6, 2009)

Most dogs that will bite will get the attacker, but like anything else if you want to be sure dont assume so unless you put the dog through the training scenarios and proof in realistic surprise situations - especially with a muzzle and no pads or a hidden bite suit. Big bright bight suits are too easy for the dog to find the bad guy in the tangle.

I have had at least one dog that didnt do enough training drills - when caught off guard by a surprise attack on the handler with no obvious suit accidently nip the handlers leg (mine) first in the chaos and another 2 the arm of the handler when tangled with the agitator in a hidden suit. So it does happen. Fortunetly all these dogs realized right away and readjusted to the bad guy with minimal flesh wound to the handlers, but doing the drills definitely make the dogs better and WAY more accurate - especially if you train the dog to target certain areas on the bad guy - so they go into the fight with tunnel vision toward a specific area and not just the first thing in their path (which should be secondary if the primary target just isnt available).

havent had these issues once I started doing more controlled drills before the actual surprise realistic scenarios.

be careful of just training the obvious drills to the dog - like getting pushed to the ground and then have the agitator face the dog and clatter a stick or something, work the "tangle" with a muzzle for best handler safety. I have done up to four attackers on one handler this way and the dogs can learn to accurately pick off one guy at a time and keep going back to the attacker who is the biggest threat to the escaping handler if you drill for it.

thats just based on my experience.


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## Mike D'Abruzzo (Oct 6, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcgdNEOJ40g

There's a dobie and rottie in the middle of this video doing two attackers and four attackers fighting the handler. example of training drills to prepare for fight with handler.

note that both of these dogs are neutered pet dogs. one from a pet store and one a stray. neither are sport dog quality (comparitvely low prey drive compared to most working dogs) and are working mainly off their instinct to protect their owner.

Moderators - if this video is considered "self promotion" please delete post - just thought it was relevant.

was suspended from leerburg for accidental "self promotion" dont want that to happen here.


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