# Nero Vom Logan Haus learning to hunt inside



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

This is a 9 month old puppy from our breeding of Arko X Djenna. 2 of his brothers are already working for US Customs and Border Patrol. I think this one will be ready soon too. 
This was his second time hunting inside this school.

I know that detection videos can be boring to watch for some people, but I just love to see a dog use his nose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CplZs_3rTLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy5Y2hF9RiQ


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## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

I don't think these videos are boring. I actually quite enjoy watching them. The independence of these dogs is what gets me, I think it's really cool to watch them try and figure things out on their own. I can see the handler assistance and support at the end as he helps the dog find what he is looking for, but it is still a cool exercise.

Thanks for sharing Mike!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Yes, he still gets some help form me. He has only been back here for about 10 days from his foster home and he has a lot to learn, but the drive is there so he will figure it out quickly I think. He hunts like a machine outside already and totally on his own, but this was his 2nd time working inside so I guided him a little. Till now all of his finds have been outside in the grass, so I am just teaching him that he also needs to search high.


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Did you use food? If so, what? Makes me wonder how my dog would do.


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## John Campbell (Jul 25, 2010)

great dog, cool to see the wheels turning. So much for keeping the treats on top of the fridge

thanks for sharing.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I also like watching these kinds of vids! Thank you for posting them.

Nice independent motivated searcher. I can see in the end you gave it to the dog a little, sometimes they just don't look where it is hidden, and they can't find what they can't smell. I would imagine you are pushing search times in a somewhat organized fashion though and want the dog to have success in a certain time frame according to the dog's young age?

Questions...I noticed both hides were high. Where you trying to hide things high for this dog so that it encourages the dog to check high places at this stage of training or just a coinkidink?

And also what are they searching for? Is it a pipe/toy? Who's or what scent? I think I remember you saying you don't imprint scents..but they are learning to find the scent of something I guess. I know you have explained this before..but it escapes me at present.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I see you explained a couple of my questions already! I am slow posting.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Diana Abel said:


> Did you use food? If so, what? Makes me wonder how my dog would do.


Not sure what you mean? I only use food for early tracking imprinting, and some obedience foundation work (when I decide to do OB, LOL)
I started out using a metal pipe for this guy, but he fought so hard to keep it that he kept cutting his mouth and I was afraid he was going to break his teeth, so I had no choice but to go back to a rubber hose with him. He has mashed flat 3 copper pipes in the last few days, then they get sharp edges on them and it cuts his mouth. 
I dont use any food for detection work at all.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Mike it seems like he had some high finds in there previously, maybe in that sink? He just seemed very eager to check that spot on the counter. You really put that first video hide in a tough spot! Second one too! Guess he is ready! Nice dog


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Not sure what you mean? I only use food for early tracking imprinting, and some obedience foundation work (when I decide to do OB, LOL)
> I started out using a metal pipe for this guy, but he fought so hard to keep it that he kept cutting his mouth and I was afraid he was going to break his teeth, so I had no choice but to go back to a rubber hose with him. He has mashed flat 3 copper pipes in the last few days, then they get sharp edges on them and it cuts his mouth.
> I dont use any food for detection work at all.


 
Yeah. you answered my question. I was just curious what you used to get them started. Thanks for sharing, it's very interesting to watch. Not boring at all.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I also like watching these kinds of vids! Thank you for posting them.
> 
> Nice independent motivated searcher. I can see in the end you gave it to the dog a little, sometimes they just don't look where it is hidden, and they can't find what they can't smell. I would imagine you are pushing search times in a somewhat organized fashion though and want the dog to have success in a certain time frame according to the dog's young age?
> 
> ...


I vary the reward for them all. Mostly I use a metal pipe, but I also use balls, heavy rubber blasting hose, PVC, wooden dowells, and rolled towes. These dogs are sold as green dogs, so we dont teach them any target odor or final response, I just build drive for any object, I teach them to search, and I encourage them to climb around on shit. Up till now he was only finding rewards outside on the ground, so we are doing high hides this week to teach him to search high too.
I let him hunt for about 3 minutes for now before I guide him a little, I want him to have sucess before he starts to fade on me.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Nice. Really nice for his age/experience. I like that he jumps up on the counters so freely on his own.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Mike it seems like he had some high finds in there previously, maybe in that sink? He just seemed very eager to check that spot on the counter. You really put that first video hide in a tough spot! Second one too! Guess he is ready! Nice dog


Actually Tim, the video in the room with the sink was taken the very first time he had ever been in that room. there was maybe some residual odor of a metal pipe in that sink from other hides with other dogs. He went straight to that area because that was where the camera guy was standing and he went there to check him out first.
this dog just came back to me from his foster home about 10 days ago, he had never been in that room before, I swear.
But he seams to prefer to be off the ground, they climb around on things so much as babies here that they all like to do on their own.
I was trying to make him work hard because outside he always finds the toy too fast and never really has to work hard for it.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Nice. Really nice for his age/experience. I like that he jumps up on the counters so freely on his own.


I know Konnie, I told Sonja about him. He really needs to go to USAR because he really prefers to be on top of the highest point he can get to.
I will try to get some video of some of his agility stuff.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

I understand the hunt drive, however each time, the handler gave him a "come here" and he indicated. If you already know the hunt drive is there why not start him on the peaks and valleys? That would cut out a lot of search time, but if your just keying on his hunt drive I understand, however if not, I'm suprised you would wait just to still help.

Very impressed with the "no limits" attitude with the pup!


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

I'm guessing thats one of your holdbacks, I can see why, he looks great


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> I understand the hunt drive, however each time, the handler gave him a "come here" and he indicated. If you already know the hunt drive is there why not start him on the peaks and valleys? That would cut out a lot of search time, but if your just keying on his hunt drive I understand, however if not, I'm suprised you would wait just to still help.
> 
> Very impressed with the "no limits" attitude with the pup!


 I was hoping he would find it with no help of course, but after 3 minutes or so I decided to help him before he burned out on me. I have seen him hunt for 5 or 6 minutes and find it in harder areas than what is shown here in these videos, but he was already tired here in these videos and I just wanted to end it before he quit.
I also did one easy low hide inside just after this in a new room, it took about 15 seconds to find it on his own in a desk from the time he entered the room.
I am not a good trainer, I have said that many times, I am just trying to get the dog to learn how to search and follow my direction if need be.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

mike suttle said:


> I was hoping he would find it with no help of course, but after 3 minutes or so I decided to help him before he burned out on me. I have seen him hunt for 5 or 6 minutes and find it in harder areas than what is shown here in these videos, but he was already tired here in these videos and I just wanted to end it before he quit.
> I also did one easy low hide inside just after this in a new room, it took about 15 seconds to find it on his own in a desk from the time he entered the room.
> I am not a good trainer, I have said that many times, I am just trying to get the dog to learn how to search and follow my direction if need be.



Yeah, no doubt the pup had got it. I love the no limits of this little guy! Once he is trained on specifics, he should be bad ass.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

NEVER boring watching a dog do scent work!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Drew Peirce said:


> I'm guessing thats one of your holdbacks, I can see why, he looks great


Thanks Drew, He was in a foster home until 10 days ago, he was one of the last males left here in a litter of 10 puppies so I put him with a friend of mine to let him grow up and just be a dog until he was ready to work. I have already sold 2 of his brothers to US Customs, and he may go there next month.
I gave the last male from this litter to Howard Knauff to raise for me but he did not work out. The rest of the litter was very nice. I have done the Arko X Djenna breeding 3 times and each time I get great dogs from that combination.
Tommy Yang from this forum has a male from the first breeding from two years ago and I kept a female back from the first breeding as well to breed back to Carlos later. Georgia Estes has a male puppy from the last Arko X Djenna breeding, and I think he is working well for her also.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Real nice Mike. I enjoyed that very much.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I enjoyed both video's...hes a nice free dog to see doing his thing and he doesnt appear to get disappointed or discouraged easy...he never did quit and to for some young dogs its hard to have a long attention span...

thanks for sharing the vids 

its always nice to see how other people train and work with their dogs in their particular sports/work


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## Rik Wolterbeek (Jul 19, 2009)

Very nice Mike! Now at this age do you have the dog search a blank area and how long do you wait before you place the reward?

Rik Wolterbeek


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Rik Wolterbeek said:


> Very nice Mike! Now at this age do you have the dog search a blank area and how long do you wait before you place the reward?
> 
> Rik Wolterbeek


Thanks Rik,
I am not sure I understand your question. Till now he searches in areas (rooms) where there is a toy hiding somewhere inside. I usually hide the toy and wait a few minutes before we begin the search.
I am just trying to encourage strong desire to search, so I make sure he gets sucess everytime, even though sometimes he has to work hard to get it.
I hope I answered your question, but I am not sure if that is what you were asking or not??


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## Rik Wolterbeek (Jul 19, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Thanks Rik,
> I am not sure I understand your question. Till now he searches in areas (rooms) where there is a toy hiding somewhere inside. I usually hide the toy and wait a few minutes before we begin the search.
> I am just trying to encourage strong desire to search, so I make sure he gets sucess everytime, even though sometimes he has to work hard to get it.
> I hope I answered your question, but I am not sure if that is what you were asking or not??


Mike, 
It's pretty much the same as what I would do. I tested a dog Monday, threw the ball a couple times and then faked a throw. The dog kept hunting for the ball in high and low grass aeas for at least 10 minutes and when he started showing that he got tired I placed the ball about 30 feet in front of me. When the dog came back he off course found he ball. Besides that he did really well in bite work so I took him with me. Hope he passes my Vet's examination, I have 3 people waiting for a dog like this.


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## charles Turner (Mar 2, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Thanks Drew, He was in a foster home until 10 days ago, he was one of the last males left here in a litter of 10 puppies so I put him with a friend of mine to let him grow up and just be a dog until he was ready to work. I have already sold 2 of his brothers to US Customs, and he may go there next month.
> I gave the last male from this litter to Howard Knauff to raise for me but he did not work out. The rest of the litter was very nice. I have done the Arko X Djenna breeding 3 times and each time I get great dogs from that combination.
> Tommy Yang from this forum has a male from the first breeding from two years ago and I kept a female back from the first breeding as well to breed back to Carlos later. Georgia Estes has a male puppy from the last Arko X Djenna breeding, and I think he is working well for her also.


very nice!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Benjamin Maulis (May 27, 2010)

Here's our Bouvier, 8 months old, same excercise:
http://www.youtube.com/larchedansledeluge#p/f/0/JZ4G6sO242c


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Benjamin Maulis said:


> Here's our Bouvier, 8 months old, same excercise:
> http://www.youtube.com/larchedansledeluge#p/f/0/JZ4G6sO242c


You just wanted people to see your kitchen.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Benjamin Maulis said:


> Here's our Bouvier, 8 months old, same excercise:
> http://www.youtube.com/larchedansledeluge#p/f/0/JZ4G6sO242c


LOL! I thought "Good Lord he is not letting a Bouv loose to search for CHEESE in the kitchen up on the counter!"

Nice one Benjamin8)


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

LOL, that was cute. They could be twins!:razz:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I am watching this shitter laying on the floor, and it occurs to me that this is some ones sense of humor that I am missing.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

It's rare to see such intensity in a Bouv. ha ha
For this one...... well I think he has a good home, ha ha

DFrost


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> LOL! I thought "Good Lord he is not letting a Bouv loose to search for CHEESE in the kitchen up on the counter!"
> 
> Nice one Benjamin8)


LOL, that was my first thought too. Then it crossed my mind, um well right after he walked in, that the pup might just not do anything at all. That's a bit of a novel idea cause I sure can't seem to manage bringing a (household object, gun, groceries, fill in the blank) into my house without my slob noticing and wanting to get into it.

Mike is that school occupied? It's kinda hard to tell. I've never seen a modern school with solid wood floors. It's pretty cool looking.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Mike is that school occupied? It's kinda hard to tell. I've never seen a modern school with solid wood floors. It's pretty cool looking.


Not any more, That is where I went to school from Kindergarden to 9th grade. It was closed about 8 years ago when the county consolidated all the middle schools in the area into one big cluster **** in the center of the county.
This school is less than 1/2 mile away from the kennel and I have a key, so we train there a lot. I dontate money to the community to help pay the electric bill and the heat in the winter to keep the waterlines from freezing and in return they give me a key and let me train there anytime I want......it is a great deal. I have access to everything, the gymnasium, the locker rooms, all the classrooms, the storage areas, the music room, the library, the cafeteria, the weight room, even the principles office, the whole thing.\\/


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Jesus...

I'd be in that school and out in your woods all day long hiding schtuff for them dogs to find or just messing around having them crawl over, onto, and around everything in sight. That's pretty incredible, I cannot even comprehend having access to that much cool stuff.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Kinda like we do at Carols place once a month.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Jesus...
> 
> I'd be in that school and out in your woods all day long hiding schtuff for them dogs to find or just messing around having them crawl over, onto, and around everything in sight. That's pretty incredible, I cannot even comprehend having access to that much cool stuff.


It is also cool to be able to use the microscopes in the science room, or the weights in the weight room, or to go play basketball in the gym when I want, or use the library. I am very lucky for having access to it. between that school 1/2 mile away, and the fire station at the end of my driveway I can do a lot of indoor / environmental work with the puppies. And my father has over 3800 acres of land with caves, ponds, big creeks, a lot of woods, barns, huge tracking fields, livestock, and a farm vehicle "graveyard" of about 30 old vehicles like log trucks, school busses, farm trucks, dump trucks, bulldozers, log skidders, farm tractors, etc for doing vehicle searches. We can almost replicate real civilization way out here in the hills of WV.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Don't forget the track and shooting range  Somehow lucky doesn't seem to be the right word considering all that you have access to. It's like a never ending carnival in Suttle Land.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Don't forget the track and shooting range  Somehow lucky doesn't seem to be the right word considering all that you have access to. It's like a never ending carnival in Suttle Land.


Speaking of the MX track. I have not ridden since I tore my good knee up racing in April. My cousin is 16 years old and I am 37. He has been talking some mad shit about how he can beat me now. So I am going to dust my bike off and race him on the practice track as soon as the mud dries up a little from this last two days of heavy rain here. I told him I was going to have the race filmed so that i could post it on the internet for all of his buddies to see and laugh at him for getting beat by the "old guy", LOL
MX is a young mans sport, and I was was much faster at 16 than I am now for sure, but my brain still communicates with my wrist to turn the throttle like it always did, even if the rest of my body cant react the same way anymore. I think I can still beat him.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

They left the microscopes ??


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> I think I can still beat him.


Famous last words. You better record that :twisted: And for sure, it's a young man's sport - if you can ride. If you can't it really don't matter - can he? BTW I did that to my track coach. Not quite the same thing but it was pretty cool to have him down on his knees bowing down to me in front of the entire class. He didn't even bother to finish the race.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> They left the microscopes ??


Dude, it is ****ing crazy how much shit they left in there. There are computers, refridgerators, TV's, radios, furniture, weights in the weight room, all of the gym equipment, all of the appliances in the kitchen........it is almost like they just walked out and turned off the lights for the next school year that never came.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Famous last words. You better record that :twisted:


We will find out in a couple days. I plan to film it, and if he wins............... I plan to delete it.:grin:


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> My cousin is 16 years old and I am 37.
> 
> 
> MX is a young mans sport, and I was was much faster at 16 than I am now for sure, but my brain still communicates with my wrist to turn the throttle like it always did, even if the rest of my body cant react the same way anymore. I think I can still beat him.


No disrespect meant..but you are ****ed. :lol:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> No disrespect meant..but you are ****ed. :lol:


with a lot of 16 year old kids these days, I would say your right. But this one is not like the next James Stewart , he is not a bad rider at all, but I do think i can beat him. But you may be right for sure, I could be ****ed but I can not back out now, I am already commited to this battle. he has been inviting people to come out and watch it, and telling everyone how he is going to beat me. 
I have been racing since I was about 4 years old, I just dont want to give it up just yet. But my sons are 2 and 3 so they will be racing soon and then I will have an excuse to stop doing it.
When I tore my "good" knee up this spring that really set me back and I have not been on my bike since then. That will be my excuse if this punk does beat me.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

this is how I have been forced to enjoy the MX track since I tore my other ACL in my good knee and could not ride my bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnA1Hv_sPY4

this is me giving a friend a ride in the RZR for his first (and last) time. LOL


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## John Campbell (Jul 25, 2010)

Just do what all us old guys do when confronted with a younger opponent.....FIGHT DIRTY


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> Not any more, That is where I went to school from Kindergarden to 9th grade. It was closed about 8 years ago when the county consolidated all the middle schools in the area into one big cluster **** in the center of the county.
> This school is less than 1/2 mile away from the kennel and I have a key, so we train there a lot. I dontate money to the community to help pay the electric bill and the heat in the winter to keep the waterlines from freezing and in return they give me a key and let me train there anytime I want......it is a great deal. I have access to everything, the gymnasium, the locker rooms, all the classrooms, the storage areas, the music room, the library, the cafeteria, the weight room, even the principles office, the whole thing.\\/



AHHHH, for one hour in the principals office! 
Aggression therapy can be a wonderful thing! :lol::lol::lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> with a lot of 16 year old kids these days, I would say your right. But this one is not like the next James Stewart , he is not a bad rider at all, but I do think i can beat him. But you may be right for sure, I could be ****ed but I can not back out now, I am already commited to this battle. he has been inviting people to come out and watch it, and telling everyone how he is going to beat me.
> I have been racing since I was about 4 years old, I just dont want to give it up just yet. But my sons are 2 and 3 so they will be racing soon and then I will have an excuse to stop doing it.
> When I tore my "good" knee up this spring that really set me back and I have not been on my bike since then. That will be my excuse if this punk does beat me.



I'm feeling the lactic acid buildup already! :-\":-\":-\":wink:


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Mike have you checked out the Can Am Commander X?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

John Campbell said:


> Just do what all us old guys do when confronted with a younger opponent.....FIGHT DIRTY


Thus the adage: If you find yourself losing a fight, your tactics suck.

DFrost


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Drew Peirce said:


> Mike have you checked out the Can Am Commander X?


only on the internet. the 1000 cc 85 HP engine sounds interesting. I have heard the suspension is not as good as the RZRS, but I can not confirm that. If I test drive one and find it to be better than the RZRS, I will trade for the Can Am for sure. I have had 2 Can Am ATVs and they are great machines.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

back to the video for me 

stupid question , but what scent is the dog looking for, 
is it a fresh toy that you touch and he is looking for your scent, or is it a toy that he has previously touched so he is looking for his scent, if its metal , i would assume he is looking for metal scent 
but how does he know what scent he should be trying to find,


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> back to the video for me
> 
> stupid question , but what scent is the dog looking for,
> is it a fresh toy that you touch and he is looking for your scent, or is it a toy that he has previously touched so he is looking for his scent, if its metal , i would assume he is looking for metal scent
> but how does he know what scent he should be trying to find,


 
You don't see all the video and prep to get the dog crazy for the object he is hunting for. Dog is shown the toy, then hide it and then send the dog to hunt for it...dog is searching for toy odor at this point until he is imprinted on odor, then he searches for target odor. When a dog is hunting as well as he is inside and going up and over things, he wil have no problem at detection. (Remember he is only 9 months, it will only get better at this point)


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