# Keeping weight on raw fed dogs



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Having recently personally experienced this as well as reading about similar experiences here, how many folks out there have had trouble keeping weight on their raw-only fed dogs?

If you had that problem, what did you do to resolve it? Did you add kibble or some type of single grain/carb? If you added kibble or a carb, what % of the dog's body weight were you feeding before you added.

For folks who have no trouble keeping weight on their raw-feed working dogs, what % of their body weight do you feed?


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

What kind of meat are you using? - if your meat source is fairly lean(venison, lean beef etc) it might help to add something with a higher fat level like chicken or add in a few chicken skins to the meal. Keep in mind if you add a carb source it has approx the same amt of calories per gram as your protein. I would try adding fat and feeding a slightly higher amount of food. Carb sources have to be well-cooked if added - rice,barley,oatmeal etc

My dogs being huskies are on the "very easy keeper" type - I have trouble keeping weight off of most of them in the summer. I am feeding about 350 - 700 grams per dog depending on their size and metabolism etc. Most are getting about 500 gms this time of year.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Our Dane had problems keeping weight on with raw. I was feeding her 4-5lbs a day and she was only about 110lbs at the time. Just a growing girl. She's stabilized now and I feed her 3-3.5lbs a day. I used a lot of fatty pork shoulder, higher fat (cheaper!) ground beef, fatty beef chuck roast type cuts and that helped her keep the weight on. 

I don't think carbs works the same way for dogs, I had better luck with more fat in the mix.

I do feed some kibble, once a week I give them a mix of canned tripe and Evo Red Meat. This is to make sure if they are lacking anything from the raw diet the kibble and tripe balance it out.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

My dogs have always been free fed. When I started feeding chicken I left all the feeders in the yards and keep them full. I feed 10 lbs of chicken a day which come to about 1/2 lb per dog. They all seem to be doing fine and seem to be maintaining their weight. Feeding 300lbs of chicken a month, the dogs eat about 550lbs less dog food....give or take. I am down to maybe 120lbs of kibble a week.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I had a really tough time especially when my dog was younger (but *not* a puppy).

I had to *double* what I was feeding when I first started him. That was the vet's advice (raw friendly) That did the trick.

I have been feeding 5% of his body weight for three years and now that he is over 4 years old, his metabolism seems to have slowed slightly and I can get away with 4%.

I do try to feed more fat in the winter.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

To keep weight on it's this simple.

In order to gain weight, you have to create a caloric excess.

to lose weight a caloric deficit.

Now it may help to feed more fat if your feeding a low fat diet, but if there is fatty meat in your diet already...adding a leaner meat, will make the dog keep weight on...just because the dog is not retaining fat, does not mean the dog needs more fat.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> Keep in mind if you add a carb source it has approx the same amt of calories per gram as your protein.


This is the 100% correct thing that always makes me baffled when raw feeders consider carbs for dogs who need more calories.

Carbs and protein have the same calories by weight; only fat has twice as many.

Generally (not always, but generally, if we are talking about a healthy dog), as Jennifer says, the answer is simply more of the same varied raw diet that you are feeding, unless, as Dan and Lynn mentioned, the diet is low in fat. Then add fattier meats.

Fresh raw fat is well-used by healthy dogs -- far better than grains or starchy vegetables.

JM.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I had a problem keeping weight on one of my Mal's. I was feeding a fairly wide variety of meats - beef, chicken, buffalo, emu, duck, rabbit, venison, goat along with tripe and vegetables. It was not until I added mutten to his diet that I was able to stabilize his weight much easier. As for how much I feed....he's 70lbs and lean enough to easily see the last two sets of ribs while in movement...I feed between 1 to 2 lbs daily - depending on his activity level and the way he looks/feels. I'm no expert by any means, but I've found that certain meats work well in keeping weight on my individual dogs. Chicken with skin left on will easily add weight to my female Mal....Goat will easily add weight to my older male....Mutten works for Zane.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I had a problem keeping weight on one of my Mal's. I was feeding a fairly wide variety of meats - beef, chicken, buffalo, emu, duck, rabbit, venison, goat along with tripe and vegetables. It was not until I added mutten to his diet that I was able to stabilize his weight much easier. As for how much I feed....he's 70lbs and lean enough to easily see the last two sets of ribs while in movement...I feed between 1 to 2 lbs daily - depending on his activity level and the way he looks/feels. I'm no expert by any means, but I've found that certain meats work well in keeping weight on my individual dogs. Chicken with skin left on will easily add weight to my female Mal....Goat will easily add weight to my older male....Mutten works for Zane.


Interesting! I totally get the poultry with skin left on, but had not heard about mutton. I wonder if it's particularly dense or fatty.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I had a problem keeping weight on one of my Mal's. I was feeding a fairly wide variety of meats - beef, chicken, buffalo, emu, duck, rabbit, venison, goat along with tripe and vegetables. It was not until I added mutten to his diet that I was able to stabilize his weight much easier. As for how much I feed....he's 70lbs and lean enough to easily see the last two sets of ribs while in movement...I feed between 1 to 2 lbs daily - depending on his activity level and the way he looks/feels. I'm no expert by any means, but I've found that certain meats work well in keeping weight on my individual dogs. Chicken with skin left on will easily add weight to my female Mal....Goat will easily add weight to my older male....Mutten works for Zane.


This is kinda my point. It would not surprise me that you were having trouble keeping weight on a 70 lbs Mal if you are feeding 1-2 lbs daily. That is only 2-3% of your dog's body weight. This may work okay for pet dogs, but many working dogs just need more food than that IMHO. 

I think that young dogs (like under three) sometimes burn more calories because they are...well, young. 

I feed more food a day than you are feeding and my dog is 42 lbs !

I get what you are saying about different meat sources working for different dogs though


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

*I feed more food a day than you are feeding and my dog is 42 lbs !*


I guess more (then what I feed my dog) is what *your dog* needs.....if I fed Zane more then what I am already feeding him...he would be a porker - even with all the exercise and training he does on a daily basis. As you can see by the pictures _*http://laceync.smugmug.com/gallery/8097773_xZUPh/1/527731910_FnV4u he is NOT underfed by any means*_. Perhaps different dogs, somewhat like people, have different metabolisms or maybe the quality (protein, fat etc) that I feed is different ?


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I totally agree about the age thing. Our Dane is about 2 1/2 now and it's only been the last 5-6 months where I've been able to cut back her ration and not have her looking like a bag of bones. Add in that the Dane is a naturally slender breed with a thin coat, it's easy to see a lot of ribs and think they are too skinny.. I haven't weighed her for a while, but I'm guessing she's about 125 now, and 36" at the shoulder.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Lacey Vessell said:


> *I feed more food a day than you are feeding and my dog is 42 lbs !
> *
> 
> I guess more (then what I feed my dog) is what *your dog* needs.....if I fed Zane more then what I am already feeding him...he would be a porker - even with all the exercise and training he does on a daily basis. As you can see by the pictures http://laceync.smugmug.com/gallery/8097773_xZUPh/1/544877873_4ZxSu_* he is NOT underfed*_. Perhaps different dogs, somewhat like people, have different metabolisms or maybe the quality (protein, fat etc) that I feed is different ?



Very true..they have different metabolisms for sure and I like the quality of protein point as well. I also sometimes wonder if people that are feeding a lot of bone are getting the same calories as those that feed less bone...and things like that. Many variables.

My point was only that if people think that their dogs are too skinny or they have trouble keeping weight on them, they should consider adding more food (feeding a higher percentage of the dog's body weight). I have been asked by many poeple how to have their dog gain weight and they are only feeding 2-3% of their dog's body weight. Only suggesting because of metablolism, energy outputs, genetics, whatever, that some dog may need 4-5% for example and some young dogs even higher. 

I hate the internet, I hope I have not been misunderstood

PS- Zane it so freakin cute!


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

No...not misunderstood and ty for your comment about Zane being cute...I think so to...at times.

I _was_ feeding him 3-4 lbs of food (without the addition of mutten) and he still was very thin...alot thinner then I personally like ie., I could see all of his ribs and IMO he was actually losing muscle mass instead of gaining with exercise. As I try to feed prey model - the bones to meat ratio was fairly consistent. His stools were a tell tale sign leading me to believe that the bone/meat ratio was pretty good....he was just not maintaining his weight until I began feeding him mutten ...which permitted me to feed less....but easily maintain or add weight.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Metabolisms can vary greatly! - my girlfriend also has about the same amount of dogs that I do but has alaskan/sighthound/hound X's versus my Siberians and older-style alaskans - she feeds about the same recipe as I do but has to feed twice as much for most of her dogs. How active the dogs are has an effect also - I feed alot more in the fall/winter when the dogs are working hard than the summer when they are mostly snoozing under the trees. Increasing the energy density of a diet can only be done by increasing fat. Feeding more increases the calories of your diet as fed but doesn't affect the caloric distribution.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Lacey Vessell said:


> No...not misunderstood and ty for your comment about Zane being cute...I think so to...at times.
> 
> I _was_ feeding him 3-4 lbs of food (without the addition of mutten) and he still was very thin...alot thinner then I personally like ie., I could see all of his ribs and IMO he was actually losing muscle mass instead of gaining with exercise. As I try to feed prey model - the bones to meat ratio was fairly consistent. His stools were a tell tale sign leading me to believe that the bone/meat ratio was pretty good....he was just not maintaining his weight until I began feeding him mutten ...which permitted me to feed less....but easily maintain or add weight.


AHh...copy! I am picking up what you are puttin' down now


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Very true..they have different metabolisms for sure ....


In fact, they can be hugely different.

Of my two smaller dogs, the 18-pound dog and the 27-pound dog get exactly the same meals. I was surprised, and in fact took some months to realize that this more recent smaller one (who is also nearly twice the other one's age!) required the same calories; both are good trim weights on the same caloric intake.

It works out to about 2% for one and well over 3% for the other.

Per-pound recommendations are nothing but a starting point.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Hello all!!! I had a similar issue with my mali when she was young. Until she turned 2yrs old I couldn't keep weight on her. We did a LOT of training and conditioning and I was feeding her like crazy. Now that I look back on it I feel I should have fed her even more. Finally, now, at 3yrs of age her weight has stabilized. She looks great. I've always fed raw with different brands of kibble. Tomorrow I will go to the butcher shop and ask if I can have the beef fat they've trimmed away from the cuts of beef. I will use it as an additive to her meals for energy. Good luck on your future feedings.


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## Sarah Atlas (Dec 15, 2008)

I have no trouble keeping weight on my dogs with total raw. My very active 3 year old no off switch female gets approx. 4 pounds of raw.with veggies etc. my 57 pound (gets fat on air female/spayed) gets about 1 pound and my 90 pound male wiho at 8 .5 years is still worknig but slowing down also gts about 4 pounds of raw. I feed lamb, beef, pork, venison, organs, bone etc and eggies

just my two cents worth


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