# Firearms & Concealed Carry



## Mike Schoonbrood

Not really about dogs, but more about personal protection. What are peoples favorite choices in firearms, and why do you like the one you like? Do you have a different one for in-home and concealed carry, or do you have one you use for both? What do you prefer for concealed carry, and what makes you prefer it?


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## Kyle Sprag

In the car Astra .44mag with Two inch Barrel.

In the night stand Rosi .357 mag Six inch Barrel

General Home defense Winchester 1300 Defender 8 round 12 guage pump 18in barrel w/pistole grip and folding but stock


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## Will Kline

Concealed carry is a Sig Saur P229 .40 cal. I love it because its compact but still allows a 12 cap mag and it fits perfectly into my hand almost as if it were made to belong there from birth. 

For home defense it is still my weapon of choice although you just have to admit that staring down the barrel of a shotgun has got to put the fear of god into the perp.


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## Chris Wild

I'm a Sig fan too. My preferred carry gun is a Sig Saur P226 in .40. I love that gun but it's a bit bulky for carry at times. It works ok for most of the year when I'm wearing coats/jackets/sweaters, but not in the summer. So my purse and summer carry gun is my Sig Saur P232 in .380.

Home defense is the good ol' standby shotgun.... 12ga loaded with buckshot.


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## Kristen Cabe

I'm not really able to wear a concealed carry holster, so my S&W 38 is usually in my purse. It's small and lightweight, which makes it a good one for concealed carry, but I can't hit the broadside of a barn with it at long distances! :lol: I was _much_ more proficient with my Springfield 9mm. It was just too big and heavy for CC. 

I forget what Adam carries, but people are always shocked to find out that that's what he has. I guess they're thinking it ought to be smaller or something, but you never know he's got it on him, so...


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## Chris Jones

Modified M1911A1


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## Eros Kopliku

When looking for a pistol for concealed carry I would consider (loosely in order of importance):

- The user (sex, age, strength, etc)
- Caliber; pistols are not optimal to begin with, so in my opinion, no lower than 9mm unless it is a secondary pistol
- Reliability
- Portability and concealability; a .22LR on your hip is much more useful than a .44MAG in your trunk
- Capacity; in most scenarios a civilian will not empty a magazine in self-defense, but knowing that Murphy is alive and well, I prefer to have options.
- Simplicity of operation
- Availability of parts

All that said, I think the Glock 19 is the middle ground when considering all of the above for the average citizen.


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## Will Kline

Chris Jones said:


> Modified M1911A1


Nice weapon but sure isn't the easiest to conceal!


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## Jerry Lyda

12 Gauge pump in house, 38 short CC, easy to hide.


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## Chris Jones

Here's one for ya... http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=24
This one is much more concealable.


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## Andy Andrews

I second Glock and Springfield Armory. Quality & Realiability. 

However, for home protection, I gotta go with the Wilson Pro shotgun:










And for personal carry/protection, I actually prefer a blades over guns. They just feel more comfortable to me. Personal favorites:






















Andy.


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## David Frost

Duty weapon is a Glock .357 sig round. Off duty issued is a compact glock, same caliber. Personally though I usually carry my Walther PPK .380 when I'm off duty. I do have an 870 with 00, 00, slug, slug in the mag.

DFrost


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## David Frost

Andy we have a saying in my business. Never bring a knife to a gunfight.

DFrost


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## Andy Andrews

David,

Watch the first minute or so of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0fPL4f3Eqc



Andy.


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## David Frost

Andy, saw that film in "Edged weapon" training. 
Which by the way made it even more dangerous to bring a knife to a gunfight.

DFrost


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## Gerry Grimwood

Canadian rules= Rem. 800 3" pump/ short barrel for household use, Ruger .338 mag if they make it to a field :smile:


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## Mike Schoonbrood

I can imagine myself shooting someone if I felt my life were in danger, but I have a hard time imagining that I could stab someone, both from a psychological and physical standpoint. The post-attack trauma would also be alot more if I had the memory of stabbing someone, vs. pulling a trigger, if I were even successful in the first place. Then on top of that, stabbing means I am close up, which means there is more chance that I will be overpowered and stabbed with my own knife.

Ofcourse with the adrenalin going who knows, but its better to go into a fight feeling as comfortable as you can.


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## Chris Jones

The best defensive weapon though has got to be situational awareness.

I've seen so many people have bad things happen to them just because they weren't aware of their surroundings.

Awareness of your surroundings is the key to personal safety.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Chris Jones said:


> The best defensive weapon though has got to be situational awareness.
> 
> I've seen so many people have bad things happen to them just because they weren't aware of their surroundings.
> 
> Awareness of your surroundings is the key to personal safety.


I wrote the exact same thing on another forum just this morning.


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## Chris Jones

I've tried to drive that thought many time into my wife's head. lol
Something bad is always happening to her...car wrecks etc...


Be aware!
http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/situational.htm


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## Tim Martens

for just around town i have a tiny little american arms 5 shot .22 cal that i throw in my pocket. if i'm going to a higher risk area and i'm wearing some bulkier clothing, i have a glock 30 (compact 10 shot .45) that i wear on my belt...


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## David Frost

Chris Jones said:


> The best defensive weapon though has got to be situational awareness.
> 
> I've seen so many people have bad things happen to them just because they weren't aware of their surroundings.
> 
> Awareness of your surroundings is the key to personal safety.


I really couldn't agree more.

DFrost


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## David Frost

"I can imagine myself shooting someone if I felt my life were in danger, but I have a hard time imagining that I could stab someone, both from a psychological and physical standpoint. The post-attack trauma would also be alot more if I had the memory of stabbing someone, vs. pulling a trigger,"

Mike, either way tends to change most people, one way or another. 

DFrost


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Tim Martens said:


> for just around town i have a tiny little american arms 5 shot .22 cal that i throw in my pocket. if i'm going to a higher risk area and i'm wearing some bulkier clothing, i have a glock 30 (compact 10 shot .45) that i wear on my belt...


That's interesting. I read somewhere a while back a very logical statement: "Big caliber might be more effective, but a .22 cal on the hip is more effective than a .45 in the trunk."


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## David Frost

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> That's interesting. I read somewhere a while back a very logical statement: "Big caliber might be more effective, but a .22 cal on the hip is more effective than a .45 in the trunk."



I've got a 22 mag derringer I'll sometime throw in my pocket if i'm just running to the store or something. Little 2 shot, makes a lot of noise. 

DFrost


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## Greg Leavitt

I usually carry my Glock G-17 if I am going some where where I feel I may need it. Other than that I carry my colt 38 as it fits in my levis pocket. For home defense I have a Beretta 92 with 3 clips right next to the bed and an 870 in the closet loaded. Thats assuming I dont open the gun safe and then the oor bastard that comes in my home is in real trouble.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Educational thread for the Canadian girl with no weapons and a Duck Toller:-o :lol:


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## Gerry Grimwood

I've always been envious that Americans can own handguns and we (canadians) can own them, but you need a permit to even take one to a range nevermind carrying one in public, but mostly we don't need that kind of protection.

What's really funny is that handguns are taboo, so most people shot around here are done so with longarms, where's the logic ??


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## Julie Ward

I carry a sig P232. I'm 5'3 and it's a very compact size that fits anywhere easily. For in home protection I have a sig P226 in a 9mm and a Kimber 1911 reworked by Wilson Combat (my favorite firearm to shoot) and a Glock G22 40 cal, which I hate shooting, but it has trijicon nightsights and is railed with a light so it's very versatile. We also have a match Colt AR15 (Donnie's), a Remington 870 Magnum Express w/18" barrel and a Knoxx SpecOps stock (also Donnie's) and a highly modified Ruger 10/22 to a Mach II (mine).


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## Matthew Grubb

Duty.. Nighthawk Custom 1911
SWAT... Springfield Operator 1911
Off Duty... Glock 27
Boot Gun... North American Arms .380


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## Howard Gaines III

For concealed carry, I have a Glock model 27 .40 subcompact. I also went with the extended clips so it can fit my hand. I have the Glock 17, a .9mm and the Colt 1911a .45. It really is so much the size of the handgun, it's all about how well you can shoot inside of 20'. Most law enforcement and civilian shootings are done in around 10', as I am told with current data.

Of course, for home protection you just can't be without a solid K9; I use *Bouvier Motion Detectors *male and female models for outside critter control. Yep, the owner can shoot, the dogs bite, and both have attitudes, welcome dirtball! 
And you can't beat a nice martial arts background. Weapons at close range can be taken away and/ or redirected. A well placed punch or chop to the throat makes the big and tall great kicking targets at 2 1/2'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kim guidry

Chris Jones said:


> The best defensive weapon though has got to be situational awareness.
> 
> I've seen so many people have bad things happen to them just because they weren't aware of their surroundings.
> 
> Awareness of your surroundings is the key to personal safety.


 
As a civilian, I can not carry a concealed weapon unless I get a permit. Where ever or when ever I go out side my home I make sure that I am aware of my surroundings. I also don't put myself in stupid situations like going to the mall or 24hr stores at night when things are more likely to happen. Although in this day in time bad things are happening both day and night. I will not always have my gun, dog or shopping buddy with me. Sometimes the only thing you have to protect yourself is that gut feeling, I listen to mine. If I have and doubts I take the appropriate action. However, I will not stop living my life on the "chance" something can happen. I will not give someone that power over me. 

At home I have a alarm system,dogs, gun and the mind set that I will fight and do what I have to do protect myself and my family. I know husbands that will go out and "buy a guy for the wife". The wife, is scared to death of it and will only use it if they "had" to. These are the same women who walk out of stores with there head held down hoping that no one will notice them. 

Well, I guess my point to all of this is that no matter what your weapon of choice is, or lack of a weapon. It the heat of the moment, what are you willing to do to protect yourself and your family. Being aware of your surroundings where you are at home or out and about is sometimes the only thing you have on your side.


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## Will Kline

kim guidry said:


> I know husbands that will go out and "*buy a* *guy for the wife*". The wife, is scared to death of it and will only use it if they "had" to.


Umm...Ok, I'll bite....What exactly do you mean by that????


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## David Frost

Just a guess, but I think she meant "gun". If not, well then it's none of my business.

DFrost


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Either she meant "gun", or she's into male prostitution. Hey... im cool with that, whatever floats your boat...


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## Will Kline

David Frost said:


> Just a guess, but I think she meant "gun". If not, well then it's none of my business.
> DFrost


I kind of figured that but *I JUST COULDN'T RESIST *the inuendo!


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## Howard Gaines III

Some folks post "ADT" signs at the end of the driveway or beware of dog. I have a different spin, I tie out an ugly, grossly overweight woman with a frying pan in her hand and big pink curlers in her hair. There is a sign at her heels which reads, "Will work for food." So far NO forced entries in my place. And the single guy come through again! :---)


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## kim guidry

Will Kline said:


> Umm...Ok, I'll bite....What exactly do you mean by that????





kim guidry said:


> "buy a guy for the wife".


So sorry! I meant "buy a *GUN* " I rush threw my typing sometimes and miss my type-o's. That's what I get for just using spell check!


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## Howard Gaines III

kim guidry said:


> So sorry! I meant "buy a *GUN* " I rush threw my typing sometimes and miss my type-o's. That's what I get for just using spell check!


Uhm...must be a Cajan thang ya'll! 
*Laisser le bon temps roulez!*


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## Mike Schoonbrood

We have a spell check? Hey lookit that, we do! Wow. I never woulda seen that.


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## kim guidry

Howard, I just knew you would chime in on this!


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## Howard Gaines III

Yeah feeling the luv! 
Will get back with your PM later, work won't let me check the pics!


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## Kyle Sprag

Howard Gaines III said:


> Some folks post "ADT" signs at the end of the driveway or beware of dog. I have a different spin, I tie out an ugly, grossly overweight woman with a frying pan in her hand and big pink curlers in her hair. There is a sign at her heels which reads, "Will work for food." So far NO forced entries in my place. And the single guy come through again! :---)


NOW THAT is some Funny stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Justin Eimer

Springfield XD .40 Caliber
Works for pretty much everything.
Easy to conceal. 
Extremely accurate.
Feels great in the hand.
Reasonably priced. 
I don't need to have multiple guns, since anyone of them burns powder and will elliminate a threat. Mike Turner on the other hand, has a gun for each day of the week. LOL.


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## David Frost

I'm not a big gun person myself. I own 4, a shotgun, rifle, 22 deringer and a .380. Everything else is issued. While they have been tools of the trade, I've just never been a real affecianado.

DFrost


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## Carol Boche

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/

This is my new one I pack around. Complete with a laser site in the grip. 

I love my Glock 26 an my Sig .380 but the Kimbers' are my new favorite.


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## Ted Kraft

Springfield Micro Compact in .45 is my medication for almost all situations. This is a light (aloi framed) compact with tritium sights, smooth custom feeling action handgun. Conceals well and packs a punch.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Posted this in the decoy boxes thread by accident yesterday, oops:

If anyone wants a good laugh:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA

Desert Eagle 50 cal anyone?


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## kim guidry

kim guidry said:


> "buy a gun for the wife"





Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Posted this in the decoy boxes thread by accident yesterday, oops:
> 
> If anyone wants a good laugh:
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA
> 
> Desert Eagle 50 cal anyone?


 
Ya'll see!  This is what happens when a husband goes out and buys a gun for his wife!  Very funny LOL


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## Howard Gaines III

I heard about a guy who got a .50 Desert Eagle for his wife...GREAT TRADE, yes! 
Who would think that she was worth that much? Advantages to being single!!! Smaller gun case.


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## kim guidry

*Trading your wife for a gun!*:-( With that attitude I can see why you are single! Morning Howard.


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## Howard Gaines III

Howdy Kim! 
Nope never done that, yet. Got to be married, have a bad wife, and have a great gun deal.  And if she weighs 450 pounds, I could get *three guns*. Yeah because she would be three times a lady! 
LOL Oh some days I crack myself up! Thank you folks I'm here all weekend....


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## David Frost

"Thank you folks I'm here all weekend...."

Dont forget to tip your servers.

DFrost


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## Gary Garner

THis is all that I carry off duty;










L1 surefire flashlight with a TIC (tactical impact crown)... and even that could be classed as illegal in the UK according to some opinions...


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Gary Garner said:


> THis is all that I carry off duty;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L1 surefire flashlight with a TIC (tactical impact crown)... and even that could be classed as illegal in the UK according to some opinions...


That image won't show up because its hosted on a forum that requires you to sign in first.


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## Patrick Cheatham

Ruger P85 - 9mm to carry out, but in the house a good ole no aim 12 gauge and a winchester 30/30 to reach out and touch.


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## Mark Connolly

Duty: Springfield XD 9mm
Colt A5-15 

Off-Duty CC: Kel-Tec P11 9mm with Cobolt +p ammo
or 
Taurus .38 ultralight


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## Maren Bell Jones

I don't own any guns, but my father made sure I know how to fire them (a revolver, a Beretta, and a Ruger). I think I preferred the Beretta. Actually, I really prefer knives myself. There's something that's so much more primal (and silent) about knives. There was a small Bass Pro Shop in town that closed down in favor of the new big Bass Pro and I got a $130 Browning pocket knife for like $25. \\/ That's the one I have in my dresser right next to my bed.


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## Bob Scott

Anybody sneaks into my house and I'm gonna give em a big hug and ask if they wanna sing Kumbiya! :twisted: :twisted:


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## Maren Bell Jones

That's scary enough on its own, Bob. I wouldn't blame them one bit for running the opposite way screaming. :razz:


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## Daryl Ehret

For concealed carry, I'd use my Smith & Wesson 629 Mountain Gun, a 4 inch 44 mag with slender barrel, beautiful accuracy at 50 yards. Very manageable recoil when used with 300gr. jacketed hollowpoints by Hornady.









My UN-concealed carry weapon would be the Smith & Wesson 460XVR, a revolutionary design with speed and reach of rifle-class firearms.


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## Justin Eimer

Mike~
I watched that the other day and hurt myself laughing.:razz: 8-[ 


Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Posted this in the decoy boxes thread by accident yesterday, oops:
> 
> If anyone wants a good laugh:
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA
> 
> Desert Eagle 50 cal anyone?


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## Carol Boche

Justin Eimer said:


> Mike~
> I watched that the other day and hurt myself laughing.:razz: 8-[


OMG, that was funny.....however, I agree....she is pretty lucky that all she got was a tap on the nose.....YIKES!!!!:razz: :razz:


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## Howard Gaines III

If folks break into my digs while I'm home, I'll step out of the shower. That'll get'em running! Might even try my version of Michael Jackson's Thriller song!
Kim don't go sneak'n around for a free show! The dogs still bite, in between the barfing. :-o


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## kim guidry

Howard Gaines III said:


> Kim don't go sneak'n around for a free show! :-o


 
I think that the cold climate is affecting your thinking Howard. :roll:


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## Julie Ward

> I think that the cold climate is affecting your thinking Howard.


Cold affects more than thinking. I'm thinking the show won't be much of a "Thriller".


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## Will Kline

Julie Ward said:


> Cold affects more than thinking. I'm thinking the show won't be much of a "Thriller".


Wow Howard!!! :-o They are coming at you with the 155 rounds!! 8-[ Hope you have thick skin! :razz:


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## Bob Scott

Julie Ward said:


> Cold affects more than thinking. I'm thinking the show won't be much of a "Thriller".


8-[ DAMN!
I think you done been hit center mass Howard! :lol:


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## Carol Boche

Here ya go guys
I think I am going to do this......HA HA HA\\/ \\/


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## David Frost

Julie Ward said:


> Cold affects more than thinking. I'm thinking the show won't be much of a "Thriller".



I was in the POOL!


DFrost


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## Howard Gaines III

Rule of Holes...an old saying:
"Never dig one any deeper than you can step out of it."
Long legs and longer.......................................time to think. Two or more on one, time to run. :arrow: exit stage right!


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## Howard Gaines III

Julie I'm out of here faster than your race dogs, no faster than a free Southern BBQ, feeling the love...ouch!

Will, David, and Bob the "water" is too cold here and not a good guy thing. A woman scorned and one with a Glock "flash" attachment. Small show, full price, no refunds..............nope I'm not faking it...really out of here now, and it has been a cheap Thriller! \\/


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## ann schnerre

wow guys/gals!! so much (too much really) information! (and, no, i'm not going into the howard thing either!)

a good friend of mine, a gunsmith, is trying to convince me that i need a handgun, and NE has a new concealed-carry law to boot. but i'm thinking that to really find the "right" gun, i should go and try out a few. true??


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## Julie Ward

> i should go and try out a few. true??


I would. Try different makes and calibers and see what you like and what fits comfortably in your hand. I would actually go shooting a few times with as many different types as you can so you can start to develop a feel for them. I have a nice gun range by me that has probably 60 handguns, plus some others for rent for a mere $6/day total for as many as you want to try.


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## kim guidry

ann freier said:


> a good friend of mine, a gunsmith, is* trying to convince me* that i need a handgun, and NE has a new concealed-carry law to boot. but i'm thinking that to really find the "right" gun, i should go and try out a few. true??


 
Trying out different guns is a great place to start. You want to make sure it fits your hand well and will not knock you in the head like a youtube video I just saw:razz: :razz: :razz: More importantly, if you are having to be *convinced *to buy a gun, are you willing to use it if needed?:|


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## Daryl Ehret

> More importantly, if you are having to be convinced to buy a gun, are you willing to use it if needed?


Train _your mind_ for preparedness. Visualize a scenario where you'd be most likely to use it, where those most precious to you are threatened, and the line is crossed. The conviction of mind results in a concentrated focus on the task at hand. The gap between emotion and muscle-memory unite, and performance improves under stress.


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## Howard Gaines III

Find a caliber and model that fits your hand and shooting skill. .9mm is a good all round PP size and the Glock model 27 is a nice .40 caliber. If you don't carry it or have it ready a PP gun is useless.


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## Carol Boche

Anne, I belong to an organization called the "Second Amendment Sisters". 

Great organization and they have several "shoots" throughout the year. 
They have over 70 weapons you can choose from and they provide the ammo. 

They also teach and promote safety and there is one instructor for each attendant. 

Here is their website http://www.2asisters.org/

And you are more than welcome to come up here and stay with me and go to one of the events. 

Once the weather breaks, and warms up I am hoping to get down there like we have discussed in the past as well.


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## kim guidry

Ann, I wish you the best of luck in your selection of a gun. I don't mean to play devil's advocate in questioning your decision. I just ran across to many people that say they have one but would never use it. Just like the dogs we choose to own, guns also come with responsibility. I own a gun and I have taken safety classes. I am in the mind frame that if I need to I can and would use it. I hope that no one,weather you are a cop or a civilian will ever be in the position to have to use a gun. Carol made a great suggestion by contacting Second Amendment Sisters. I am sure it is a great place to find the information you are looking for. I am confident that you will be able to make the right decision for yourself. Best wishes.


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## ann schnerre

Carol Boche said:


> Once the weather breaks, and warms up I am hoping to get down there like we have discussed in the past as well.


the question is, is THAT ever gonna happen?? how much snow have you gotten today? we're at 4" and still snowing. thank heaven the wind isn't howling like it was saturday! it'd be pretty if it was christmas eve again, but.... 

anyway, i'll check out that link, you come on down whenever, and maybe i'll get up there, too.

daryl--excellent thoughts! i can visualize using a gun if someone ever tried a home-invasion/break-in out here, and my kids are old enough (and gun-savvy enough) that i'm not worried about terrible accidents with them involved. i think i'll find a firing range around here, check it out, etc. i know that here i would have to complete a course to get a concealed carry permit, don't have a problem with that, and it might be a good idea to have one with me as i drive a lot of miles out in the middle of nowhere for my job....


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## Carol Boche

ann freier said:


> the question is, is THAT ever gonna happen?? how much snow have you gotten today? we're at 4" and still snowing. thank heaven the wind isn't howling like it was saturday! it'd be pretty if it was christmas eve again, but....


I hope it happens SOON!!! We got 8" today, big beautiful flakes, calm, quiet...really pretty actually AND THEN the wind came up, the snow got smaller and mixed with freezing rain. UGH....it is supposed to warm up to 39 degrees tomorrow so it will be a slippery mess. It is 4 with a wind chill of -3 right now. 

I am so tired of working dogs in the cold.....cannot wait for it to warm up and get green.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Oh wait! I DO have a gun O

Okay so it is not very concealable, won't help in a home invasion, its accuracy is sh**, and it is not actually mine persay.....but I do get to fire it twice a week at least\\/ 

The barrel....and targets!









The "ammo"









Carol, I admitt even I was thinking fondly about summer today


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## Bob Scott

:-o Ok! Nobody mess with Jennifer! 8-[


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## Carol Boche

Bob Scott said:


> :-o Ok! Nobody mess with Jennifer! 8-[


Ha Ha, she does have us beat.....I wanna come play Jennifer. [-o< [-o< \\/


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## Kim Gilmore

Was just in your "neighborhood" the other day on my way home from a quick visit in Calgary (needed my semi-annual dose of Rickards Red which we just can't get in this part of the woods!). Yeah, you guys sitting pretty good for snow right now. We are slated for avy certs/recerts next weekend and holding breath that we still have some depth by that time as the sun has been out in full force with spring time temps the past few days. At least the powder will solidfy a bit and maybe we can actually DIG in it instead of just tossing it around in a hopeless attempt at making holes.

Wonderful news is that half-way between us there is NO snow which has our handlers (who are getting tired of avy training) itching to get back to area, trailing and hrd training. Maybe for good behavior will go ahead and plan for a combined training day in Eureka with the Border Patrol boys and their little doggies too in the next few weeks. Dogs and handlers are ready for a dose of dead grass. Will drop you a line if you want to come down and play!

Kim Gilmore
NW Montana, USA


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## Jennifer Coulter

Kim Gilmore said:


> Was just in your "neighborhood" the other day on my way home from a quick visit in Calgary (needed my semi-annual dose of Rickards Red which we just can't get in this part of the woods!). Yeah, you guys sitting pretty good for snow right now. We are slated for avy certs/recerts next weekend and holding breath that we still have some depth by that time as the sun has been out in full force with spring time temps the past few days. At least the powder will solidfy a bit and maybe we can actually DIG in it instead of just tossing it around in a hopeless attempt at making holes.
> 
> Wonderful news is that half-way between us there is NO snow which has our handlers (who are getting tired of avy training) itching to get back to area, trailing and hrd training. Maybe for good behavior will go ahead and plan for a combined training day in Eureka with the Border Patrol boys and their little doggies too in the next few weeks. Dogs and handlers are ready for a dose of dead grass. Will drop you a line if you want to come down and play!
> 
> Kim Gilmore
> NW Montana, USA


I am on an avalanche forcasting course in the Golden, BC area, sans dog at present.

We did have another couple of avalanche fatalities in BC in the last week, one ski tourer and one snowmobiler. Both recovered with tranceivers though a Parks Canada dog did attend at least one scene.

Though winter is FAR from over for us, you bet that both the dog and I would enjoy seeing the grass (even if it is dead) for a day!! The snow is still higher than my fence in places in my yard. I will drop you a line when I get back home! 

Sorry I failed to make this gun related....


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## James Schalch

I use a Kahr 9mm it fits in your pants pocket without any one knowing its there. I have fired about 5000 round through it without a failure. I have to say it has everything I hate, double action only, hammerless, poly frame, and 9mm, however, its smaller than most .380s and I am much more apt to carry it because of the conv. Im a 1911 man myself, however they get old after about 10 min.


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## Daryl Ehret

It was said on the TV news last night that there were 9,300 applications for CC permits this year in the state of Colorado, a 49% increase from last year!!


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## ann schnerre

what the He!!'s going on in CO?? all the ranchers already carry, is the increase in the cities?? gotta be..


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## James Schalch

All that increase is on the front range, most on the western slope are like people in NH, they are born with the right to carry. The powers that be in the very liberal counties have done thier best to delay this as much as possible.


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## Daryl Ehret

I've been debating about which 3" model 1911 to use for concealed carry. Any thoughts or experience with Springfield Armory's EMP (.40SW) or Kimber's Ultra Covert II (.45ACP)?


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## Matthew Grubb

Nothing but good reviews on the EMP... Pistolsmiths are now also starting to work on them like traditional 1911's. 

For the amount of money it would cost for a "combat reliable" Kimber, you could get better.


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## Chris Jones

Springfield arms manufactures some very fine weapons. Find a gun shop and see about test firing one.


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## Daryl Ehret

Thanks


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## Frank Smego

I'm all about BIG holes & MASSIVE firepower, big surprize from a Rotty owner huh?

For the home Kimber Pro Carry II .45acp in the night stand. 870 Rem, 18.5 barrel w/Knoxx stock in the closet next to the Bulgarian AK-47.

When Bowhunting in bear country I carry a Freedom Arms in .454 casull.


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## Frank Smego

Daryl Ehret said:


> I've been debating about which 3" model 1911 to use for concealed carry. Any thoughts or experience with Springfield Armory's EMP (.40SW) or Kimber's Ultra Covert II (.45ACP)?


The 3" Kimbers have been problematic. I own the Kimber Pro Carry II HD with the 4" barrel I don't have problems with it.


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## Daryl Ehret

Thanks. I was leaning toward the Springfield, but also have concerns about caliber. I'm pretty partial to 40SW, but heard the reliability on a 3" slide may not perform as well as 9mm in this short barreled model.


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## Jennifer Marshall

I've got a Taurus M82, numerous rifles (mostly 30.06), machetes, throwing knives, a bullwhip, a baseball bat.... ah, lots of stuff. I can turn anything into a weapon if I need to. Though I really need to practice with the throwing knives. Oh I have a sword, somewhere. Ah and a large ornery older brother. 

I guess I'm decent, I can hit a 20oz soda bottle reliably (75%) and a 8" round target 100% at 35-40 yards. Haven't been to the range in about 2 months, I should go soon. 

Self defense classes didn't hurt but I've always had that "Mess with me, I dare you" kind of attitude. Frequenting Milwaukee and growing up wrestling with a viking helped


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## Mark Horne

Guys,

As a welshman in the UK this is double dutch to me. Don't get me wrong I carry every day at work, and point my Glock at people on a fortnightly basis but can anyone carry in any state, do you have a licence (creditable) are there storage rules, can you carry on Aircraft. What happens if you point it at someone (use of force).
This sounds barking mad to us, but then if I get burglared I will likely get arrested if I try and detain the perp!

Cheers 

Mark


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## David Frost

Mark, each state is different. Some states it is very difficult to legally carry a concealed weapon. Others it's very easy. In my state, you must be 21, have a background check (no felony convictions, no domestic violence charges), a weapons safety and shooting course, pay the 75 dollars (I think that's what it is) and carry the gun. There are a few limitation where a weapon can be carries. No bars, schools, public buildings etc. A sworn law enforcement officer can carry a weapon, off-duty, concealed, almost anytime and does not need a seperate CCW permit. 

DFrost


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## Julie Ward

I recently sold my Sig P232 and replaced it with a Kimber Ultra Carry II and I LOVE it!


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## Frank Smego

Mark - I live in one of the more(most) restrictive states. We can not carry in our state period. I do not have children in the home so I have no restiction on weapons in my home. I am protected in my action if a an intruder should enter my home and I choose to defend myself with a fiream. Our state consitution would not permit any law that would affect weapons already legall owned.

There is a federal case being heard at this time that may change our state laws in the favor of gun owners.

If we were able to carry, I would get the permit as I feel it is my constutional right BUT, I really don't think I would carry.

I've carried in the field(bush) in the western mountians here in the States(Colorado) and in South Africa while Bowhunting. I found having a handgun on my belt to be very annoying .


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## Matthew Grubb

Daryl Ehret said:


> Thanks. I was leaning toward the Springfield, but also have concerns about caliber. I'm pretty partial to 40SW, but heard the reliability on a 3" slide may not perform as well as 9mm in this short barreled model.


 
Daryl… Bullet technology has come a long way. The 9mm being produced today is light-years ahead of the 9mm of old. I wouldn’t let the caliber affect your decision.


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## Jerry Lyda

Just saw a nice video of an AA12. That is the ultimate weapon, bar none.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hhstuvzMiB0


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## David Frost

Interesting gun. Hate to be on the business end of that scutter.

DFrost


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## Daryl Ehret

Needs a belt feed, so you don't have to spend so much time reloading ;-)


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## Mark Horne

Thanks for the replies guys, a hidden advantage of this site is sharing information. Here I will give something to tell your mates down the pub; in the car I carry a Colt M4, 4 Glocks, 4 H&Ks, 2 Tasers, nightsticks and pyrotechics and a baton gun. A lot for a welsh gent, when we deal with gun man or nutters with swords we can't get the guns out. They are locked away I have to call a high ranking officer to make a threaqt assessment and he will authorise what guns and whether its an overt or covert tactic (discreet) as soon as the incident is over we lock the guns aways. For example if I nicked an armed robber at gunpoint, it would be a separate authority and not always given to remain armed to say search his house.
Basically I can't unlock the guns without permission which takes time.
No smart replies guys I heard them 20yrs ago when I was dealing with the IRA, just thought some of you would find it amusing.
Needless to say I can run fast or punch hard ; its a split decision.

Regards 

Mark


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## mitch kuta

Glock 27 carry gun. 18"pump shotgun in home.


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## Guest

> *Mark Horne states:*
> No smart replies guys...


I'm going to do whatever the hell I want because, well, my guns are more accessible than yours. Hehe.

:razz:


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## Ashley Hiebing

There is no concealed carry in WI. And I'm going to be a good girl and refrain from explaining what the 2nd amendment really means


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## Will Kline

Ashely, we are ALL going to find out what the 2nd Amendment really means as soon as the U.S. Supreme Court makes it final decision on this topic. It has taken quite some time to even address it but now it is before them and a decision will be made public soon.


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## Frank Smego

Ashley Hiebing said:


> There is no concealed carry in WI. And I'm going to be a good girl and refrain from explaining what the 2nd amendment really means


Please do share, only by talking can we all understand other views.

I look to one of the very author's of the Bill of Rights for the true meaning.

Uncertain as we must ever be of the particular point in our circumference where an enemy may choose to invade us, the only force which can be ready at every point and competent to oppose them, is the body of neighboring citizens as formed into a militia. On these, collected from the parts most convenient, in numbers proportioned to the invading foe, it is best to rely, not only to meet the first attack, but if it threatens to be permanent, to maintain the defence until regulars may be engaged to relieve them."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:334 

I believe anyone that comprehends the english word can understand that the founding fathers DID NOT intent the word MILITIA to mean Govenment troops. They clearly meant citizens.

If one would concider How & Why we became a Nation the answer of the true intent of the 2nd Amedment is obvious.

In Jerrson's own words:

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

I respect a Non-Gun owners right to not own a firearm, I only ask them to respect my Constituionally Protected right to own mine.


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## Carol Boche

Steven Lepic said:


> I'm going to do whatever the hell I want because, well, my guns are more accessible than yours. Hehe.
> 
> :razz:


<SNORT>:smile: :smile: 

Actually I think that is terrible, not being able to access a weapon when one is clearly needed. YIKES!!


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## Will Kline

Frank Smego said:


> In Jerrson's own words:
> 
> "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
> 
> I respect a Non-Gun owners right to not own a firearm, I only ask them to respect my Constituionally Protected right to own mine.


Very nicely put Frank. I remember when Charlton Heston was interviewed after the L.A. riots: He noted that ALOT of his "anti gun" friends called him asking if they could borrow a gun for protection and his reply was: sure...go fill out the paperwork, wait your prescribed minimum 5 days for review and see me after you are approved! Funny how so many people change thier views after being face to face with an unpleasant situaton! ](*,)


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## Frank Smego

Will, as you may know, the biggest fear our forefathers had was that our young Republic's goverment would turn on it's citizens someday. A concern forgotten in our soft & comfortable world.

Every nation, through out time that is inslaved by it's own tyranical leaders, always thinks, "It could never happen here".

Our Govenment is a system of checks & balances. The 2nd Amd. is the ultimate check on the goverment, by the people.


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## Howard Gaines III

Our forefathers biggest fear was the upcoming internet and websites like this...promoting wild dogs and even wilder owners. A nation of dog carrying outlaws erh................:twisted: Bring on the NRA


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## Michael Santana

I was at a local retailer today purchasing rounds, it was insane! There was a huge line of people. I guess theres alot of "fear" out there now.


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## Maren Bell Jones

I dunno Michael, it's the second weekend of deer season for us here in Missouri. Might explain a few things. :lol:


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## todd pavlus

my gun of choice, if I could get one the good ole mini gun. HA beat that8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ELhy4_0hM


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## todd pavlus

Or maybe the more pratical M249:-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCra4qOrjFw&feature=related


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## Selena van Leeuwen

We ain't allowed to carry guns or have at home. Only sportshooters with a permit on very strict terms.

Only police & military can carry guns. For me it's strange to read this topic...

Have fired some pistols 'cause my ex was a sportshooter. Fired a 9 mm, .45 and a .357 firearm & gun. Liked the 9 the most 'cause it is light.


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## Michael Santana

I have to second Justin, I love my Springfield XD40. 

While deployed I was an M2 and M240B gunner. I wish I could ride around with either of those strapped to the top of my truck now. Betcha I won't get cut-off!!! :lol:


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## Bob Scott

Missouri has a nice CC law and also the right to use deadly force in a home invasion. ;-) 
and NO! The shooting incidents/problems DID NOT go up after we passed these laws.
When these laws were being passed I was traveling with the SAR team. I talked with a lot of small town PDs/SDs about their feelings on it. To a man, the comment was "Hell, everyone in this town already carries. It ain't gonna make one bit of difference."


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## Hoyt Yang

Have a CCW in CA.. Weapon of choice is an Ed Brown Kobra Carry.


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## Matthew Grubb

Hoyt Yang said:


> Have a CCW in CA.. Weapon of choice is an Ed Brown Kobra Carry.


Nice piece!! I plan on adding an Ed Brown to my small collection of 1911’s. I have a Nighthawk Custom 10-8 model and a Springfield Operator that is being reworked by Cylinder and Slide.


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## David Frost

I have a CC license of sorts. We are issued a Glock 33 .357sig for off-duty, although I generally carry a Walther PPK in .380. On duty, when dog training, I wear the Glock 33. Duty weapon is a Glock 31, same caliber. I'm not much of a gun person, although I generally have one on me when I leave the house. We have no small children in the house, so the pistols are loaded ready to go. If a weapon is needed for home defense, my choice would be a shotgun, given the time. If not a pistol is generally close at hand.

DFrost


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## Matthew Grubb

David Frost said:


> If a weapon is needed for home defense, my choice would be a shotgun, given the time. If not a pistol is generally close at hand.
> 
> DFrost


 
You will love this then...... http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php


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## todd pavlus

Matt, thanks for that link. I think I found my next gun\\/


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## Howard Knauf

Thats just sic. Makes my 16 1/2" pistol grip scatter gun look like a monster.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I still like a good knife, the guys dead before he even realizes it.

As far as the home security thing goes, I don't know. In the military, it was way too easy to do the things we needed to do, and they knew we were coming.

The home stuff is scary, because years could go by. I don't even lock the doors, because when I leave the house, I figure they will just break the window. LOL

The other thing is most people do not really train for home invasion type stuff, as it is not so likely to happen......well that I know of. I ain't got shit, so why would they bother.

Besides, ever watch that show where the guy goes and takes everyones shit ??????

If the boogey man has a problem with you, and you don't know?????? Big trouble. Everyone thinks they can pull the trigger, but it is too scary to think about. Did you forget the safety ?????? Uh oh.

Gotta figure that if they are at that point, the dog is dead. It all gets too messy. : )


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## Daryl Ehret

How NOT to hold a revolver!

S&W 460XVR Magnum


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## David Frost

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I still like a good knife, the guys dead before he even realizes it.
> 
> Everyone thinks they can pull the trigger, It all gets too messy. : )


There is an old saying; Never bring a knife to a gunfight.

Eveyone may think they can pull a trigger. Some know they can. You are right though, it can get messy.

DFrost


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