# $382.00 Vet Bill



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

This is for real. I came in from Seattle for the weekend.I was feeling tired from the trip, my larynx radiation treatments and one other issue. My female somehow got a superficial head wound about the size of a quarter a couple of days before I got back. I told my wife to wait until I got home.

I decided to take her to the vet rather than work on her myself. My error.

He sedated her by injection, shaved her head around the wound, cleaned it up, prescribed pain killers and a antibiotic. The vet and I discussed stitches and decided against them. Total time length in the office was approximately 25 minutes.

I was a hell of a lot sicker when I got the bill.


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

What kind of antibiotics was it?


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I'd have had a heart-attack.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I'd be curious how much of the bill was the sedation? I know that can REALLY increase a bill for something that is otherwise routine/low cost.

Why did they need to sedate her just to shave/clean the wound?


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

Having taken out loans to pay vet bills, under $400 is just not that big of a deal to me. 

I do believe your cost was so high because of the sedation. Take also into account that you most likely paid $30+ just to walk in the door (I know places with $70 non-emergency office visit cost), plus antibiotics, and the vets time. Bills can add up very quickly.

Did they give you a bill break down? Perhaps you got charged an emergency fee.

Honestly if it is not an emergency, I do allot of my own care for minor cuts and such.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I guess it depends on the vet. I had a pup that got a good sized gash on her ribcage, open could see the ribs, needed some stitches...of course this is 5 PM on a Friday night.
I called the closest vet to me and he said as long as I don't "waste his damn time" to bring her in right then. Granted, she didn't get any sedation and I had to hold down a yelping dog as he stitched it up, but for my after hours screw up, my total bill was $35, and he did her rabies shot while I was there. 

Granted, that was like a year and a half ago and the vet was very old school (WWII vet), but a really nice guy.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Well, in my area, especially if they don't know you, they take you for all they can get. A friend of mine was once charged $120 for 20cc's of saline (sub q) for a bird. Another time my friend's bill was around $260 to examine and bandage a cockatiel's bitten toe (I went with, and had to restrain the little guy and hold his foot while the vet bandaged, because the techs sucked at basic handling) and another estimated $550+ for surgery to amputate the same toe. I'm pretty good at basic first aid with my critters.

I know a few good oldschool vets, but for the most part they are older, tired, and retiring. The newer younger generation replacing them are fresh outta vet school and think they know everything... :lol:


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## Meghan Rabon (Feb 10, 2009)

My JRT picked a fight with my GSD and of course the little guy ended up with a few holes. They weren't too bad, but I thought at least one would need stitches. Of course it happened on a Sunday morning so I brought him to the emergency vet.
The vet tried to convince me that he needed exploratory surgery to be sure one puncture hadn't penetrated his joint. I asked how much it would be - the vet said around $2000!!! She tried hard to guilt trip me into the surgery...
I didn't know whether to laugh or be pissed at the vet for trying to rip me off like that!!! The wound wasn't anything serious and he healed up just fine with some antibiotics...


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Lee, next time use a little Cut-N-Heal.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

I had to put a dog down because he needed surgury a month and a half after the first one because he had ate some tape. The first bill was 1500 dollars and I had all but 300 dollars paid off. the vet informed me they could not do the financing because i owed them the 350. so I had to put an 11 mos old dog to sleep. what a dick. I dont think i could morally do something like that especially knowing how much the prices were jacked up in the first place.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Julie Blanding said:


> What kind of antibiotics was it?


Expensive?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

This thread really makes me appreciate my vet.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> This thread really makes me appreciate my vet.


I hear what you're saying. My natural eared dobermann got in a tussle with his mother and was bleeding from the edge of his ear.
I couldn't get it to stop bleeding and of course all he wanted to do was shake his head spraying blood all over the place :-(
Took him in to my Vet and got him stitched up and only got charged for an office visit. Then she told me next time to just use a gauze pad and a big paper clip to keep it in place 
Her husband was a American Bull dog breeder and PP trainer, so she understands working dogs and their needs.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I guess it is just the rural farm community that I live in, but people here simply will not pay much for vet care and the vets know this. Many times I have actually tipped my vet because his prices were almost unreasonably low.
His father was also a vet and I have known the family for my whole life. My grandfather used his father on his cattle. I went to school with my vet, he is a year older than me. Of course even with the cheap prices he charges me I still spend thousands of dollars a year with him and many times they have said that I spend more with them every year than any of their other clients.
I get a few dogs X rayed per week (back, hips, elbows), I get about 3 or 4 health certificates per week, some of them also get a rabies shot. His prices for those simple things are very cheap I think.
About $100 to X ray a dog's spine, hips, and both elbows. ($25 per X ray) and about $20 for a health cert with rabies shot.
Many times he has just told me to come to his house for some work and tried to do it for free. (I always pay him in cash for that stuff anyway)
And he has came to my place (30 mintues from his office) to help with some stuff and charged me $30 for that.
He charged $100 for a pretty detailed surgery last year, $50 to spay/neuter usually.
He sells me wormer and vaccines at his cost plus shipping. 
We recently X rayed a coyote's back, hips, and elbows for comparason and that was free.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Mike.
how did the coyotes hips look like compared to working dogs?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Rounded numbers:

Antibiotic and pain meds and panolog $100

Anesthesia $80

It was 3PM no emergency service charge. The rest of the bill was vet services.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Julie Blanding said:


> What kind of antibiotics was it?[/quote
> 
> It says - Ca sedation


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I'd be curious how much of the bill was the sedation? I know that can REALLY increase a bill for something that is otherwise routine/low cost.
> 
> Why did they need to sedate her just to shave/clean the wound?


This is my female. She needed sedation so she didn't "eat" him.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Lee, next time use a little Cut-N-Heal.


I know, Don. That's what I normally do. I was feeling under the weather. Expensive lesson. It turned out to be bend over time.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

It's a catching business over here too...they're making it too expensive so as ordinary folks are unable to get their beasts treated when needed.

I'm having a bit to and fro with a couple of vets (greedy B********) at the minute, it's seriously disheartening. Hang'em I say, hang'em :-D


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Hi Lee,

I am like Annie and Mike. I use an older vet who does not need the money and is a farm vet. I was using a newer vet who came from Cornell University. 

The vet charged excessive prices. I had a dog get a hold of a porcupine. I live in the country. She charged me 175.00 to sedate the dog to and pull the quills out. 

My older vet charged me 40 dollars for the same surgery procedure. My older vet will also give me options to do with an animal and give me a choice. One nice thing is that he will put your animals down for free, if you use him. He will come to your house. I found out through him that the Lymes vaccination is not proven to work, dogs don't need heartworm preventative in the Northeast, excessive vaccinations, and other things pushed by most vets. He charges me 15 dollars for a visit.

I have found that the old farm vets make the best vets in my opinion. If I had to do a specialized surgery, I would take the dog to a specialist. The thing to do is check out vets when you do not need them.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

maggie fraser said:


> It's a catching business over here too...they're making it too expensive so as ordinary folks are unable to get their beasts treated when needed.
> 
> I'm having a bit to and fro with a couple of vets (greedy B********) at the minute, it's seriously disheartening. Hang'em I say, hang'em :-D


I am sure I could have taken my "human" kid to a "human" doctor and got out of the office for much less money.

The terrible thing is I used this same vet for over 30 years. That was my last visit. If I wasn't feeling ill I would have let him know how I felt.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I am sure I could have taken my "human" kid to a "human" doctor and got out of the office for much less money.
> 
> The terrible thing is I used this same vet for over 30 years. That was my last visit. If I wasn't feeling ill I would have let him know how I felt.


I guarantee you wouldn't have in the States (CR no) and you *definitely* wouldn't have made it out of there in 25 minutes! More like 4 or 5 hours if you're lucky. :lol: I was without medical insurance for about a year and a half (hubby now works for the university hospital so we have good insurance now), so I would have to pay for stuff like that in cash (and I still pay in cash for dental and vision). It was $242 for the office visit and to get 2 view survey radiographs on my lower back less than a year ago for the herniated disc in my back, no sedation required. Yipes! Ya'll know how much it costs at our huge specialty referral veterinary medical teaching hospital for a digital 2 orthogonal view survey films of the spine where a board certified radiologist looks at the films? $96 plus $40 for the office visit. It would be several hundred at least to be seen for something like a laceration repair on emergency or urgent care if you have to pay in cash.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> It would be several hundred at least to be seen for something like a laceration repair on emergency or urgent care if you have to pay in cash.


At least. I had to take my son in for some stitches a couple of years ago. Grand total, 3000.00 I got a "discount" for paying it early, so I "only" ended up paying around 2000. But it was a simple laceration on his arm that needed stitches. And they didn't even do a good job of it, he's got a large scar there now.

Shoulda taken him to the vet instead :lol:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I am sure I could have taken my "human" kid to a "human" doctor and got out of the office for much less money.
> 
> The terrible thing is I used this same vet for over 30 years. That was my last visit. If I wasn't feeling ill I would have let him know how I felt.


That's pretty dire that, 30 yrs of loyalty, daylight bloody robbers !

I'm moving back to my old vet...dropped in on him out of hours on a Saturday evening, he met me at the practice. Checked my dog over, administered an injection and advised I bring the dog back in for the wee op I spoke of on an earlier thread. Here comes the good bit.....FREE Did you hear that Maren ? :lol:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Maggie, I don't typically judge other professionals for their fees. I don't know their situation, their market share, how much it costs to run their business. I would however like to hear what YOU do professionally that allows you give away your services_ pro bono_. Of course, you do seem to live in a cardboard box, so that would explain a few things.

The unfortunate reality of running a small business is if you give away services for free to some people, either to the sob stories or the deadbeat clients, there are two options: you're going to have to charge the good paying clients more to cover those costs (which is not fair to them) or you're going to go out of business. It's very simple. Charging appropriately and fairly to everybody as much as possible is the best policy. Having a good Samaritan fund that clients or staff can donate to is another way to go about it.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

So Maren, you are an expert on running a business now too ?? Is there really anything at all where you do not have expertise...seems not.

The vet practice in question has been practicing for 30 yrs, I know this because I joined his practice when he first started out. I know also that he has treated poor peeps' animals as well as strays involved in an rta. He adds on a little here and there to those who can afford it, but he is still cheaper than many other places. He also offers a service. You see Maren.... he is not a commercial vet, he's in the profession where he can make a living by caring and treating animals....could well be a concept a little difficult for you to understand.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> I guess it is just the rural farm community that I live in, but people here simply will not pay much for vet care and the vets know this. Many times I have actually tipped my vet because his prices were almost unreasonably low.
> His father was also a vet and I have known the family for my whole life. My grandfather used his father on his cattle. I went to school with my vet, he is a year older than me. Of course even with the cheap prices he charges me I still spend thousands of dollars a year with him and many times they have said that I spend more with them every year than any of their other clients.
> I get a few dogs X rayed per week (back, hips, elbows), I get about 3 or 4 health certificates per week, some of them also get a rabies shot. His prices for those simple things are very cheap I think.
> About $100 to X ray a dog's spine, hips, and both elbows. ($25 per X ray) and about $20 for a health cert with rabies shot.
> ...


I'm moving to WV with you, I just laid out 100 for distemper, rabies this morning. The only treatment I got was immediate room because they don't like my 4 legged pysch unit patients in the lobby LOL.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I guarantee you wouldn't have in the States (CR no) and you *definitely* wouldn't have made it out of there in 25 minutes! More like 4 or 5 hours if you're lucky. :lol: I was without medical insurance for about a year and a half (hubby now works for the university hospital so we have good insurance now), so I would have to pay for stuff like that in cash (and I still pay in cash for dental and vision). It was $242 for the office visit and to get 2 view survey radiographs on my lower back less than a year ago for the herniated disc in my back, no sedation required. Yipes! Ya'll know how much it costs at our huge specialty referral veterinary medical teaching hospital for a digital 2 orthogonal view survey films of the spine where a board certified radiologist looks at the films? $96 plus $40 for the office visit. It would be several hundred at least to be seen for something like a laceration repair on emergency or urgent care if you have to pay in cash.


Not true! I go to VA but we have family MD for the rest of bunch. He charges $90 for a visit. I don't recall ever waiting for longer than 45 minutes. Usually it is around 20 minutes.


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## Mia Dunn (Jun 16, 2010)

Wanna hear a REALLY CRAZY one. A client of mine paid $750 to *spay* a 7 month old Golden Retriever. She (the vet) actually had the audacity to charge the client close to $200 for a *teeth cleaning*!!!!! What 7 month old puppy needs a teeth cleaning??? 

The client is so enamored with this vet she's been using for 20 years, and the vet recommends me as a trainer, so I was not able to tell this client that they got bent over with no lubricant! 

The vet is in a rich area, so she just piles on the stupid charges. 

What's this world coming to?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Mia Dunn said:


> Wanna hear a REALLY CRAZY one. A client of mine paid $750 to *spay* a 7 month old Golden Retriever. She (the vet) actually had the audacity to charge the client close to $200 for a *teeth cleaning*!!!!! What 7 month old puppy needs a teeth cleaning???
> 
> The client is so enamored with this vet she's been using for 20 years, and the vet recommends me as a trainer, so I was not able to tell this client that they got bent over with no lubricant!
> 
> ...


The vets and their trainees are taking over, hang'em I say, hang'em before it's too late!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

My last rott litter I had was in IN..

I went to get the tails docked...lol
I could not find a vet to do it. All kept telling me akc changed the rules...
I finally got one vet trainee to make the appointment for me, went there and found out the vet did not do tail docking unless medically necessary...
I strong armed her into doing it, since I had the appointment.

The bill I got was insane...over 300$ for 6 pups, 2 of which died from the anasthesia that she did on them, tail docking? anesthesia? stitches? insane...

I was pissed, I did not know they would use anesthesia on such small pups, let alone stitches, they might need a stitch or two here or there. but every pup, multiple stitches?

I also had to agree never to tell anyone that the vet actually did the procedure...LOL.

It was a small city that was totally against people breeding dogs...they had this policy to "crack" down on byb's, or so I was told...I saw something else entirely...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"He adds on a little here and there to those who can afford it ..."
_
How does that work in practice? I'm trying to picture being one of the ones "who can afford it" ... maybe because I work? :-o

How is it determined how much to add on and which clients "can afford it"?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> So Maren, you are an expert on running a business now too ?? Is there really anything at all where you do not have expertise...seems not.
> 
> The vet practice in question has been practicing for 30 yrs, I know this because I joined his practice when he first started out. I know also that he has treated poor peeps' animals as well as strays involved in an rta. He adds on a little here and there to those who can afford it, but he is still cheaper than many other places. He also offers a service. You see Maren.... he is not a commercial vet, he's in the profession where he can make a living by caring and treating animals....could well be a concept a little difficult for you to understand.


The business aspect is a particular interest of mine since I want to own my own facility. They do teach us about the business aspect in vet school and recommend outside classes, seminars, and continuing education (which I've taken) because yes, if you own a practice, you're running a small business. You can't treat ANYONE if you go broke because of poor business acumen, which includes charging what you're worth. And no, there's many things I'm not an expert on, which I'll always admit to. 

You say you "joined his practice." As what? And you never answered my question. *What do YOU do now professionally that just allows you to give away your services and skills whenever you want? * Please enlighten the rest of us. Just because vets care for animals instead of humans doesn't mean we shouldn't charge fairly for our services, especially when people want the same level and quality of care for their animals as themselves. I'd argue we're much more efficient at not throwing a ton of money on not helpful diagnostic tests, particularly when it won't alter treatment and prognosis, than human doctors. We ALWAYS discuss cost considerations for clients. If the clients can't pay, we can't treat.

I will have 11 years of post secondary education by the time I graduate next spring. Plus if I do a residency in nutrition and get certified in rehab, it will be even more so. So yes, I will charge appropriately for my expertise. So does anyone who doesn't want to go broke. But I'm usually pretty generous with my time. Ask any of my PSA club members (I don't want to bring them into this, but two of them are on this board) or my herding instructor if I'm stingy with my time helping them with their animals.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> _"He adds on a little here and there to those who can afford it ..."_
> 
> How does that work in practice? I'm trying to picture being one of the ones "who can afford it" ... maybe because I work? :-o
> 
> How is it determined how much to add on and which clients "can afford it"?


 

You'd have to ask the vet that, but I engaged my brain as to how he manages to do it, plus being a sociable kind of person, I tend to chat with clients in the waiting room. You see Connie, there are people around the world who may experience temporary financial difficulty or there are those who are not over enamoured in being over charged, in fact there are a few reasons why many people are not happy to pay these rising vet charges. There are also people who are very hard working but perhaps do not have a very affluent income but still care for their animals.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Maren, I am not even going to respond to your last post.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Jack Roberts said:


> dogs don't need heartworm preventative in the Northeast


Do you have some type of reference to proof of this?



> I have found that the old farm vets make the best vets in my opinion. If I had to do a specialized surgery, I would take the dog to a specialist. The thing to do is check out vets when you do not need them.


I think this is a good point. I do as much on my own with my pets as I can, but my "old farm vet" is the guy who comes out to do routine stuff for my horses. He's a no-nonsense guy for sure. When they need something more specialized (read: the old farm vet says put the horse down and get another one because it makes zero sense to save an animal who costs less to replace than to treat, and I'm too much of a softie to do that), I call the equine specialists instead. And then the cash hemorrhaging begins!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lee..

Should've washed it yourself, put a little triple antibiotic on there and locked the dog in a crate for a week or so...I'm betting that would've worked...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Maren, I am not even going to respond to your last post.


Why won't you answer the question, Maggie? Even if you worked at McDonald's, they don't lower the price or give away quarter pounders just because people can't afford it. Everyone can be a good capitalist and small businessman...unless you work with animals. Then it's par for the course to be grossly underpaid for your services and expertise because oh, you love animals. :roll:#-oTypical of those who want the vet magic wand:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> You'd have to ask the vet that, but I engaged my brain as to how he manages to do it, plus being a sociable kind of person, I tend to chat with clients in the waiting room. *You see Connie, there are people around the world who may experience temporary financial difficulty* or there are those who are not over enamoured in being over charged, in fact there are a few reasons why many people are not happy to pay these rising vet charges. There are also people who are very hard working but perhaps do not have a very affluent income but still care for their animals.


You see, Maggie, I know all about financial difficulties. :lol: The fact that I work doesn't make me immune to financial anxiety. Far from it.

But how would a vet decide who to "add on a little here and there to those who can afford it ..." ?





maggie fraser said:


> ... many people are not happy to pay these rising vet charges.


I imagine not, especially if they are one of the ones who can afford to have "a little extra added on here and there."


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Lee..
> 
> Should've washed it yourself, put a little triple antibiotic on there and locked the dog in a crate for a week or so...I'm betting that would've worked...


 I was thinking more like 2 crate weeks.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I was thinking more like 2 crate weeks.


That bad eh??? 

I orignally said a week or two....I edited it... didn't want to offend anyone...[-X


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Everyone can be a good capitalist and small businessman...unless you work with animals. ...


What's wrong with that? Just a little private-sector socialism. :lol:

You simply "add on a little here and there to those who can afford it ..." Then you too can give away services.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Quote; Why won't you answer the question, Maggie? Even if you worked at McDonald's, they don't lower the price or give away quarter pounders just because people can't afford it. Everyone can be a good capitalist and small businessman...unless you work with animals. Then it's par for the course to be grossly underpaid for your services and expertise because oh, you love animals.














Typical of those who want the vet magic wand:


Maren, what exactly are you saying here, what does this have to do with the discussion you are having with yourself ?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

You seem perfectly willing to respond, except to my question, which I'll ask for the third time:

*What do YOU do now professionally that just allows you to give away your services and skills whenever you want?

*It has everything to do with the fact that everyone wants their pet treated with the same caliber of care as themselves, but no one wants to pay for it. Because we work with animals, somehow we should be obligated to give away our skills and services to every sob story and deadbeat client that comes along, even at the expense of good paying clients.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> What's wrong with that? Just a little private-sector socialism. :lol:
> 
> You simply "add on a little here and there to those who can afford it ..." Then you too can give away services.


Wow  sounds off the wall doesn't it, showing a degree of discernment and flexibility in business practice but hey, you guys are the experts, or is it a different mentality perhaps ?

Could be a cultural thing going on here so I'll keep my other thoughts to myself for now....other than I think I see why you find it kind of funny.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Funny, we all bitch about how much things cost..I just show up at a customers and it costs them about a hun, sometimes the problem is solved in that timeframe but mostly not.

Those damn vets still charge too much though :lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> That bad eh???
> 
> I orignally said a week or two....I edited it... didn't want to offend anyone...[-X


I didn't know anyone one here could be offended!:-D


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> You seem perfectly willing to respond, except to my question, which I'll ask for the third time:
> 
> *What do YOU do now professionally that just allows you to give away your services and skills whenever you want?*


Here's a wee response for you Maren....think about your question and attitude, then think about why I don't take you seriously. If you get it right, I'll answer your question....but no more than 6 attempts.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Wow  sounds off the wall doesn't it, showing a degree of discernment and flexibility in business practice but hey, you guys are the experts, or is it a different mentality perhaps ? ...


Well, I guess charging a little extra of those who we perceive as able to afford it might be nice for the other ones (the ones getting the free stuff), but I still don't get how the vet makes the determination. Does he ask for financial statements? Does "slow pay" mean "deserving of reduced costs"? Or maybe he goes around and looks at their houses? Or their cars? :lol:

I honestly don't see how it works at the practical level. I don't think most vets have access to the information that would allow him/her to practice that kind of "discernment and flexibility," even if s/he wanted to be that judge.

Plumbers, electricians, shopkeepers, tax accountants -- oh, wait, maybe the tax accountants _would_ have access to the info needed for creating a little private sliding scale ... :lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Well, I guess charging a little extra of those who we perceive as able to afford it might be nice for the other ones (the ones getting the free stuff), but I still don't get how the vet makes the determination. Does he ask for financial statements? Does "slow pay" mean "deserving of reduced costs"? Or maybe he goes around and looks at their houses? Or their cars? :lol:
> 
> I honestly don't see how it works at the practical level. I don't think most vets have access to the information that would allow him/her to practice that kind of "discernment and flexibility," even if s/he wanted to be that judge.
> 
> Plumbers, electricians, shopkeepers, tax accountants -- oh, wait, maybe the tax accountants _would_ have access to the info needed for creating a little private sliding scale ... :lol:


I wonder if there is a discount on crates? as well...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Funny, we all bitch about how much things cost..I just show up at a customers and it costs them about a hun, sometimes the problem is solved in that timeframe but mostly not.


Do you call ahead and inquire about solvency (in order to determine how much they can afford to have tacked on here and there so you can give the less fortunate a reduced price)?


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I honestly don't see how it works at the practical level.


It's called history, whether at a corporate or an individual level.. it's the same.

Only vets use this type of profiling.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

_I honestly don't see how it works at the practical level. I don't think most vets have access to the information that would allow him/her to practice that kind of "discernment and flexibility," even if s/he wanted to be that judge._

Well it seems to work....I could go into detail how this is achieved but I don't really think it too necessary for this thread. I agree perhaps that many vets do not have access to this particular type of information, but there are those also who have maintained a good client base for a long time and many of those clients are folks who appreciate the ethic.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> It's called history, whether at a corporate or an individual level.. it's the same.
> 
> Only vets use this type of profiling.


I love that word "profiling", Gerry. I'm calling my vet Monday to ask him if he was economic profiling me because my eldest just washed my late model pickup and it was looking pretty good.:smile:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Your non-answer is pretty telling. :lol: 

My attitude? What, that I should be paid fairly for the time and money I've spent to build up my expertise? That loyal and good clients shouldn't have to pick up the slack for someone who probably shouldn't even own a dog?

Since veterinary medicine is just so very lucrative, maybe you and Gerry should go to vet school and really make bank. Perhaps that would solve the cardboard box situation. Or at least once reality hits how profitable it is not, you can at least get an upgrade.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Your non-answer is pretty telling. :lol:
> 
> My attitude? What, that I should be paid fairly for the time and money I've spent to build up my expertise? That loyal and good clients shouldn't have to pick up the slack for someone who probably shouldn't even own a dog?
> 
> Since veterinary medicine is just so very lucrative, maybe you and Gerry should go to vet school and really make bank. Perhaps that would solve the cardboard box situation.


Maren, thanks for not including me. I'm just bored and clowning around. I must admit I was super pissed at the bill. I pay my way without bitching most of the time but I think that bill was exorbitant.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Hey Maren, the cardboard box situation sits easily with me, you're laughing and judging on something you know absolutely nothing about, nothing new.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> ...you're laughing and judging on something you know absolutely nothing about, nothing new.


If THAT ain't the pot calling the kettle black........


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Judging? :lol: I'm not judging. I sincerely want to know what kind of job you have that allows you to give away goods and services whenever you feel like it. And you're one to talk about judging. I feel like I drive a Malinois and Rottweiler taxi for all the activities and fun my dogs go out and do, yet you judge anyone who keeps a dog in a crate because they actually *gasp* have a job.

Edit: Nice, Joby, you beat me by 2 minutes. :lol:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Your non-answer is pretty telling. :lol:
> 
> My attitude? What, that I should be paid fairly for the time and money I've spent to build up my expertise? That loyal and good clients shouldn't have to pick up the slack for someone who probably shouldn't even own a dog?
> 
> Since veterinary medicine is just so very lucrative, maybe you and Gerry should go to vet school and really make bank. Perhaps that would solve the cardboard box situation. Or at least once reality hits how profitable it is not, you can at least get an upgrade.


 
You know Maren, my dog is booked in for a lumbosacral fusion next week, this specialist comes very highly recommended, but drawing on my experiemce of people and exercising discernment, my familiarity with business and my sense of ethic, I'm deciding to take my dog to the poor vet for an HONEST opinion before I do squat.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey Lee

That's pretty close to what I was going to be charged to stitch up Trevva a couple of weeks ago when she sliced her leg open. 

At least my vet will give an estimate of what it's going to cost before they treat. I think my bug eyed, I can't afford that look when he told me it was going to be almost $400 to treat her was enough for him to suggest we not stitch her leg and just clean and wrap it and that it would heal just fine. Was still too much, but not as much as it would have been with sedating her for stitches.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Do you call ahead and inquire about solvency (in order to determine how much they can afford to have tacked on here and there so you can give the less fortunate a reduced price)?


No, it's really not a fair comparison because most vets are dealing with an individual and not a group, my apoligies.

Even though success is built on individual relationships with people inside companies, it's different.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

why shouldn't vets be able to make money? i think price gouging is ****ed up and i think that some vets are assholes about pushing service on people the idea that they are all money grubbing thieves is just wrong. 

if they werent able to make any money doing thier jobs they wouldnt do it. if you think your vet sucks and is screwing you look for another one. go to vets offices and ask for refferences. do research on the practice BEFORE you start taking your animals there for care. 

my company does some contract manufacturing of our products with store branding on them. if a pet store told me they wanted me to drop my prices on co-branded products because they werent making as much money as other petstores i would tell them to by cheaply made grained filled bullshit people flavored treats, imported chinese crap, or dumbass yogurt iced fufu treats. 

I run a business...i got to make money to keep things running, got to be sure i can pay all my people, got to make money for myslef and have extra $$ on hand in case we need it for expansion/emergency expenses. 

Vets are vets, but they are also businesses.business run with the primary goal of turning a profit. if they did not they would be charities.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Since veterinary medicine is just so very lucrative, maybe you and Gerry should go to vet school and really make bank.


I'm good..thanks for the offer though, can I put you on my resume ? :razz:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Edit: Nice, Joby, you beat me by 2 minutes. :lol:


I was merely thinking of Maggie's ever so often digs and posts about decoys never getting hurt, decoy abilites, and PP dogs in general. Which she admittedly knew nothing about only 2 short years ago...

and her recent crusade against crates...which she doesn't use, so therefore by default she cannot know much about the correct use of them...

What I would like to know is how maggie would travel in a car for say a 10 hour ride or even a 10 minute ride with 2-3 dogs that wanted to kill eachother.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Maren, thanks for not including me. I'm just bored and clowning around. I must admit I was super pissed at the bill. I pay my way without bitching most of the time but I think that bill was exorbitant.


Why include you Lee, you payed even is you can't stand up straight now. 

You guys always start these great topics when I am gone. I got some great vet stories. You want to hear them....I got some new ones. :razz:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

chris haynie said:


> why shouldn't vets be able to make money? i think price gouging is ****ed up and i think that some vets are assholes about pushing service on people the idea that they are all money grubbing thieves is just wrong.
> 
> if they werent able to make any money doing thier jobs they wouldnt do it. if you think your vet sucks and is screwing you look for another one. go to vets offices and ask for refferences. do research on the practice BEFORE you start taking your animals there for care.
> 
> ...


Chris in case you didn't know, we are ALL socialists now..
at least according to Newsweek...


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

chris haynie said:


> why shouldn't vets be able to make money? i think price gouging is ****ed up and i think that some vets are assholes about pushing service on people the idea that they are all money grubbing thieves is just wrong.
> 
> if they werent able to make any money doing thier jobs they wouldnt do it. if you think your vet sucks and is screwing you look for another one. go to vets offices and ask for refferences. do research on the practice BEFORE you start taking your animals there for care.
> 
> ...


Great idea Chris, windoiw shop the vets in your area. Tell you what, take a bitch into each office and talk to the vet about getting her spayed. Ask what the benefits and downsides of spaying is. Just listen to what they say and you can tell in a few seconds if he/she will screw you. Just make sure you know the pros and cons yourself but you won't get them from a vet.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Why include you Lee, you payed even is you can't stand up straight now.
> 
> You guys always start these great topics when I am gone. I got some great vet stories. You want to hear them....I got some new ones. :razz:


Okay let loose of a couple. I know Maren is looking forward to them.:-D


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I was merely thinking of Maggie's ever so often digs and posts about decoys never getting hurt, decoy abilites, and PP dogs in general. Which she admittedly knew nothing about only 2 short years ago...
> 
> and her recent crusade against crates...which she doesn't use, so therefore by default she cannot know much about the correct use of them...
> 
> What I would like to know is how maggie would travel in a car for say a 10 hour ride or even a 10 minute ride with 2-3 dogs that wanted to kill eachother.


Answer to that one Joby is super simple.... guess you're just not ready for that yet though are you ? And a crusade ? a crusade ? my, you feeling under pressure or something, taking things a wee bit to heart ?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Great idea Chris, windoiw shop the vets in your area. Tell you what, take a bitch into each office and talk to the vet about getting her spayed. Ask what the benefits and downsides of spaying is. Just listen to what they say and you can tell in a few seconds if he/she will screw you. Just make sure you know the pros and cons yourself but you won't get them from a vet.


If I took my nasty ass bitch into the vet offices around town I would have to get her treated the next town over.:grin:

Maybe that's what he was trying to tell me with the screw job I took.:lol:

Considering the price he charged I would treat a alligator with no sedatives or muzzle.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Okay let loose of a couple. I know Maren is looking forward to them.:-D


I had a 12 week old pup in to get ear crop stitches out and stopped into a small vets office one time, filled with fluffy vet tech types.. the pup was super dominant and aggressive when handled...I offered to go into the office with them, told them they might want me in there...they said they would do it, and I didn't need to come in...real cocky-like...
by the time they called me in, there were 4 people trying to work on the one little pup, 
2 with bleeding hands...
by then they were actually scared and refused to take the stitches out without knocking the dog out for over $100.00, even after I personally got the pup in a muzzle lock with one hand, and a headlock with the other arm...the pup weighed maybe 20 lbs...I ended up taking them out myself at home...that was a funny scene..i tried to warn them...they were real cocky about it too..in the beginning...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I was merely thinking of Maggie's ever so often digs and posts about decoys never getting hurt, decoy abilites, and PP dogs in general. Which she admittedly knew nothing about only 2 short years ago...
> 
> and her recent crusade against crates...which she doesn't use, so therefore by default she cannot know much about the correct use of them...
> 
> What I would like to know is how maggie would travel in a car for say a 10 hour ride or even a 10 minute ride with 2-3 dogs that wanted to kill eachother.


Indeed...I drive 2 hours to St. Louis to train in PSA 2-3+ times a week, my two Malinois have to wait in the crate 2-4 hours while they get to work 10-20 minutes, an another hour or two if the club hangs out afterwards, then it's another 2 hours back home. 8-10 hours in the crate on a typical Saturday with maybe 20 minutes tops out of it. I'm a horrible person for working my dogs in the only suit sport in the state.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Okay let loose of a couple. I know Maren is looking forward to them.:-D


Eh, I actually gotta be heading out soon to train. And I can't stay up too late cause I gotta work the ICU bright and early tomorrow. :-({|=


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> Answer to that one Joby is super simple.... guess you're just not ready for that yet though are you ? And a crusade ? a crusade ? my, you feeling under pressure or something, taking things a wee bit to heart ?


I suppose you would say train them not to want to kill eachother? if I could train a dog to do anything... am I close?


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Naw Lee, I am trying to cut her some slack. She is trying in her own way. I suppose I should ease up a bit myself....but that is the mood I am in today. :wink:


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Took him in to my Vet and got him stitched up and only got charged for an office visit. Then she told me next time to just use a gauze pad and a big paper clip to keep it in place
> Her husband was a American Bull dog breeder and PP trainer, so she understands working dogs and their needs.


Was is debbie I think and her husband was john germouth? Something like that?

I go to the vet for hips and ais and not much else... Rabies. Cuts I can deal with eating things got that down pat too. I don't trust most (and def don't think they are as smart as they think they are) of em but the ol country vets (esp those that breed also) are definitley the best!

I haven't finished this thread but for vet bills there are some credit compainies...can't recall the names right now, where you can do no interest financing..m most do dental, medical, and vet bills.

T


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

tracey delin said:


> Was is debbie I think and her husband was john germouth? Something like that?
> 
> I go to the vet for hips and ais and not much else... Rabies. Cuts I can deal with eating things got that down pat too. I don't trust most (and def don't think they are as smart as they think they are) of em but the ol country vets (esp those that breed also) are definitley the best!
> 
> ...


 
:lol: What a refreshing post, loved the bit about the credit companies for vet bills.


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## Rachel Kilburn (May 12, 2010)

WOW I guess my vet isn't that bad in their prices at all, I paid $300 to have my Mal's nose stiched up and that was with a over night stay, pain killers and antibiotics which I don't think was to bad...


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

tracey delin said:


> Was is debbie I think and her husband was john germouth? Something like that?



HI Tracey,

Pretty close, John and Debbie Germeroth. John passed away a couple of years ago, but Debbie is still practicing. I have an appointment on Monday for Flanns rabies shot with her.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Naw Lee, I am trying to cut her some slack. She is trying in her own way. I suppose I should ease up a bit myself....but that is the mood I am in today. :wink:


See Don, that's what makes you believeable to the general public. Being of similar vintage I knew you are almost bullshit free :razz:

When Maren gets to be my age she will probably be the vet people want to see.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Thomas, and everyone else for that matter. For things like rabies shots....do you actually take your dogs into the waiting room and stuff. If your dog isn't sick, tell your vets to come out to the car and give the shots. It is just a minor inconvenience for them but could save you a lot of grief. When I had yearlies done on my dogs, I took one in and picked up something and it went through 25 dogs in a heartbeat over the next week. Luckily the dogs weathered the storm but I do my darnedest to keep the dogs out of the vets.....especially for things like shots. They have always been willing to come out to the truck once I explained why.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Thomas, and everyone else for that matter. For things like rabies shots....do you actually take your dogs into the waiting room and stuff. If your dog isn't sick, tell your vets to come out to the car and give the shots. It is just a minor inconvenience for them but could save you a lot of grief. When I had yearlies done on my dogs, I took one in and picked up something and it went through 25 dogs in a heartbeat over the next week. Luckily the dogs weathered the storm but I do my darnedest to keep the dogs out of the vets.....especially for things like shots. They have always been willing to come out to the truck once I explained why.


I usually check in at the desk and go straight to an exam room.
I never considered catching anything and probably wouldn't 
ask Deb to come out to the car. The practice is a one Vet operation not one of those 10 Vets 30 Techs and Office people Mega clinics


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Thomas, and everyone else for that matter. For things like rabies shots....do you actually take your dogs into the waiting room and stuff. If your dog isn't sick, tell your vets to come out to the car and give the shots. It is just a minor inconvenience for them but could save you a lot of grief. When I had yearlies done on my dogs, I took one in and picked up something and it went through 25 dogs in a heartbeat over the next week. Luckily the dogs weathered the storm but I do my darnedest to keep the dogs out of the vets.....especially for things like shots. They have always been willing to come out to the truck once I explained why.


Are you serious Don?! People take sick dogs to the vet ;-)~ LOL For over twenty years, I have taken my dogs to the vet either through the back door or my vet comes out to the van. 

When I had a GSD pup that was about 50 #'s at 4 months old, I waited out in the van, made the vet tech carry him through the lobby and his feet never touched the ground :twisted:


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Wow this thread got crazy...lol

John and debbie were good people, she used to post on the ab boards, I had respect for her and her sharing of knowledge. She was not a fan of feeding bones if I remember correctly.

I don't ever go into the waiting room with my dogs... Mainly because of the sickly ickyness and the pet owners who don't once think I don't want theiir dogs up in my dogs grill for their own safety... I walk straight in or carry if young.

My fav vet ever was actually a young girl just out of uf.. She happened to be at my reg vets office helping out one day. She impressed me with her knowledge of dog handling and behavior. Usually I am less than impressed by vets knowledge of temperament... Anyway to start she had a mobile vet service it was great, came to house did all the dogs and not the cost as she had little overhead! 

T


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> My last rott litter I had was in IN..
> 
> I went to get the tails docked...lol
> I could not find a vet to do it. All kept telling me akc changed the rules...
> ...


Joby why are you not doing your own tails and dewclaws? It's very simple and easy to do. I had Rotties for over 10 years and docked my own tails and removed any rear dewclaws. because the vet would not dock them correctly. The tails were always too long and had a bald patch on the end. uggrrr.


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