# Corrections



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Which do you feel is the best way to issue corrections: verbal, leash, e-collar or natural? Let me also add markers...

I've seen folks use verbals and then without much time passing, yank the dog for not responding. If it hasn't been taught then you can't correct/punish. I'm not using corrections as adjustments with regard to an out of position "sit" where you reposition; I saying to address the issue based on the animal knowing and not showing.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

1 second is a good time between command, behavior and correction (or praise). Type pf correction can only be determined by someone who "knows" the dog.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

How do you define "natural correction?"

Terrasita


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Which do you feel is the best way to issue corrections: verbal, leash, e-collar or natural? Let me also add markers...
> 
> I've seen folks use verbals and then without much time passing, yank the dog for not responding. If it hasn't been taught then you can't correct/punish. I'm not using corrections as adjustments with regard to an out of position "sit" where you reposition; I saying to address the issue based on the animal knowing and not showing.


I rarely understand what you are talking about. This is no exception. 

Perhaps you would care to rephrase the question?


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## Matthew Thurston (Jul 26, 2010)

Yes, yes, yes, yes, aaaaaaaand yes! I'd say they all have a place. One simply must determine what is needed based on the circumstance and dog.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Which do you feel is the best way to issue corrections: verbal, leash, e-collar or natural? Let me also add markers...
> 
> I've seen folks use verbals and then without much time passing, yank the dog for not responding. If it hasn't been taught then you can't correct/punish. I'm not using corrections as adjustments with regard to an out of position "sit" where you reposition; I saying to address the issue based on the animal knowing and not showing.


Amen, well said


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Amen, well said


Gerry, please translate into Canadian for me.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I think he's loopy on the weed again and I was just trying to humor him :-$


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## Matthew Thurston (Jul 26, 2010)

Guys I'm pretty sure he's asking what is the correct method to dicsipline a dog that knows a behavior but simply chooses not to do it.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matthew Thurston said:


> Guys I'm pretty sure he's asking what is the correct method to dicsipline a dog that knows a behavior but simply chooses not to do it.



My guess on this for the majority of dogs and handlers is that the dog really doesn't understand the task. That could be a situational thing, leadership issues, reward isn't high enough, corrections are not effective based on level, poor timing or just not necessary for the situation.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Matthew Thurston said:


> Guys I'm pretty sure he's asking what is the correct method to dicsipline a dog that knows a behavior but simply chooses not to do it.


 Too many Labarts on someone's part and too old on the other...but in either or any case, YOU got it!
Matt that's what I'm asking...looking for feedback and not education based on modern feel good terminology. Natural corrections are when the dog/puppy/K-9/canine does it to please the handler/owner/boss/CEO/ feeder of the critter.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Howard, did any of your students ever pass an exam ?? That's what I'd like to know :grin:.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Faisal Khan said:


> 1 second is a good time between command, behavior and correction (or praise). Type pf correction can only be determined by someone who "knows" the dog.


1/2 second is even better :wink:


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## Mike Valente (Sep 14, 2010)

Howard I understand exactly what your looking for but also had the same question about the Natural Correction and your answer doesn't seem to to clarify it in my case, if the critter does it to please the handler where does the correction fit in, is the critter simply correcting itself after realizing it screwed up, are you giving it a look of displeasure which is a cue to get it's shit together or else. If the dog is purposely not responding I'm not sure how the natural correction works here.
Does natural correction require strong pack drive?

I've heard that 1 hard correction is worth 1000 soft ones.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Too many Labarts on someone's part and too old on the other...but in either or any case, YOU got it!
> Matt that's what I'm asking...looking for feedback and not education based on modern feel good terminology. Natural corrections are when the dog/puppy/K-9/canine does it to please the handler/owner/boss/CEO/ feeder of the critter.


Howard you act like this is the first time others here have had to guess at wtf you trying to say .


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

What's a Labarts ?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What's a Labarts ?


I was about to ask the same thing...then I got distracted by my dog correcting herself...she likes to correct herself with a pinch collar, naturally..i put a big loop on it so it is easier for her to get her paw in there.

Howard...if a dog tries to do something better on its own..to please it's owner, or get a reward, is that a correction???? You were asking about how people administer corrections....


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What's a Labarts ?


I only understand his welcome to the forum posts . I think he meant to say Labatts . It will be interesting to see how he answers your question in a metaphore . Dude is deep .


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

How is this an answerable question? It's so relative. Maybe o don't understand either lol.

I also don't get the natural correction.... maybe he means the ceaser claw to the neck? No tools? Idk lol


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Mike Valente said:


> Howard I understand exactly what your looking for but also had the same question about the Natural Correction and your answer doesn't seem to to clarify it in my case, if the critter does it to please the handler where does the correction fit in, is the critter simply correcting itself after realizing it screwed up, are you giving it a look of displeasure which is a cue to get it's shit together or else. If the dog is purposely not responding I'm not sure how the natural correction works here.
> Does natural correction require strong pack drive?
> 
> I've heard that 1 hard correction is worth 1000 soft ones.


Yes the natural correction has me marginally puzzled. I have had one dog in my life an ACD that worked to please me. She didnt need treats and she didnt respond to harsh correction. I simply had to show her what I wanted by repetition. If she didnt to it right I would show her again, and when the penny dropped I would praise her and her eyes shone. When I was running her in agility she would correct me if I wasnt clear with what I wanted. I could show her something over and over again and she wouldnt quit till she nailed it, she tried so hard to understand what I wanted. I miss working with her so much - she is now my old dog.

What the heck is a labarts?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> Howard, did any of your students ever pass an exam ?? That's what I'd like to know :grin:.


 Exams are for folks who like to read...I'm about hands-on and those who can DO!


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

it depends what I am correcting for, the question is too ambiguous. But, in general, the punishment should fit the crime, no more no less (equally ambiguous answer, I suppose)... ha.



Howard Gaines III said:


> Which do you feel is the best way to issue corrections: verbal, leash, e-collar or natural? Let me also add markers...
> 
> I've seen folks use verbals and then without much time passing, yank the dog for not responding. If it hasn't been taught then you can't correct/punish. I'm not using corrections as adjustments with regard to an out of position "sit" where you reposition; I saying to address the issue based on the animal knowing and not showing.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I see a natural correction as the dog adjusting to meet the need, rather than the handler. For Jim, I was in a hurry and it IS spelled "Labatt." What I get for multi-tasking.

Corrections/adjustments, do you think that those which are self taught are better or those which rely on the efforts of other measures? THIS IS THE QUESTIONS>>>


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## Matthew Thurston (Jul 26, 2010)

Now I am getting a little confused...If a dog understands and does not do, some form of compulsion is necissary. If the dog does not understand but is trying then as you call it a "natural" correction is just part of the learning process and he gets rewarded when it is correct.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Matthew Thurston said:


> Now I am getting a little confused...If a dog understands and does not do, some form of compulsion is necissary. If the dog does not understand but is trying then as you call it a "natural" correction is just part of the learning process and he gets rewarded when it is correct.


NOW you're getting confused ?!!!!


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Exams are for folks who like to read...I'm about hands-on and those who can DO!



How many fingers did your students have to have in order to graduate ?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I see a natural correction as the dog adjusting to meet the need, rather than the handler. For Jim, I was in a hurry and it IS spelled "Labatt." What I get for multi-tasking.
> 
> Corrections/adjustments, do you think that those which are self taught are better or those which rely on the efforts of other measures? THIS IS THE QUESTIONS>>>


adjusting to meet the need and get a reward? or avoiding a correction....?

self taught as in? luring? shaping? corrections? marker, target? no corrections? corrections?

too confusing?


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## Matthew Thurston (Jul 26, 2010)

Jim Nash said:


> NOW you're getting confused ?!!!!


 LOL


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Howard's cool, sometimes though he is the short bus barometer.


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

In reading this thread I thought it was the Weed too, but I think what is happening is semantics. He means when a dog is in the wrong position, realizes it and makes it's own adjustment i.e. "correction". Let's see if that's a correct understanding.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I love it when the new folks think they know what Howard is talking about . Stick around you will learn .


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks Jim that's reassuring LOL! But I'm always up for learning.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Steve Estrada said:


> In reading this thread I thought it was the Weed too, but I think what is happening is semantics. He means when a dog is in the wrong position, realizes it and makes it's own adjustment i.e. "correction". Let's see if that's a correct understanding.


 Steve the smartest person here! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Remember, Jim is old and has no vision...=D>
But even old farts can offer something...still waiting Jimmy!#-o


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Steve Estrada said:


> In reading this thread I thought it was the Weed too, Let's see if that's a correct understanding.


 
This ^^ what you're referring to Howard ? \\/


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