# Training with food?



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

What is the thought on training with a treat rather than a ball, or in addition to a ball?

I see some downsides but no doubt thyere's a big drive there to capitalize on. I don't hear of it being done so I'm sure there's a reason.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

You can do it to teach proper positioning and stuff if prey drive is too high and ends up distracting the dog. I do use food to imprint commands on the puppies, but end up training without as they get older as it gets messy.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Messy food, you mean?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I start with food, lower drive, easier to teach, once the dog gets the picture I switch it up to ball &/or tug.


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## Chris Wild (Jan 30, 2008)

I like to use food for the early stages of training. It allows me to more easily lure the dog into position, allows me to get in many more repetitions (one of the biggest components to learning) without having to constantly take breaks to play, and it keeps the dog sufficiently motivated without being overly motivated to the point of being so high in drive they can't concentrate.

Once the initial behaviors are taught though, I quickly move onto the ball or tug to raise the drive level and intensity, get quicker and more animated responses, and teach the dog to work longer and harder in between rewards. Though even with older experienced dogs I'll still go back to food rewards from time to time depending on the situation and what I'm working on in that particular session.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Ted White said:


> Messy food, you mean?


Slobber, blood from fingers getting snapped, etc.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

If a dog prefers food, use food. If a dog prefers the ball/toy, use the ball/toy. If they prefer praise, use praise. If they are over the top to the point of distraction, take it down a notch to something not quite as high priority.

Do what works.

Personally, if I had a dog drawing blood from taking treats, he'd be getting lessons in manners, inhibition of drive be darned.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I use the clicker and wieners to teach and shape. Then I use the ball or tug to build speed and intensity.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Personally, if I had a dog drawing blood from taking treats, he'd be getting lessons in manners, inhibition of drive be darned.


I have learned that this is what to do with a "grabby" dog, didn't take long either......\\/ 

One thing I do is feed them flat palmed, holding the food between my pointer finger and thumb. This way they have to kind of stick their nose up into the "cup" shape. Works for me anyway......

I use food when starting a pup as you can get way more repetitions of a behavior you want in a short training session, rather than just a few playing with a toy. 
Later I switch over to a toy, once they "know" what I am telling them, if that is what the dog does better with.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> I have learned that this is what to do with a "grabby" dog, didn't take long either......\\/
> 
> One thing I do is feed them flat palmed, holding the food between my pointer finger and thumb. This way they have to kind of stick their nose up into the "cup" shape. Works for me anyway......


Yes, that's pretty similar to what I do. Kind of like feeding an apple slice or a piece of carrot to a horse by cupping your hand.


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

I'm no expert but it seems to me that food works best for the initial learning phase and then on to toys if they like them later.
I got lucky because mine loves food and has a great drive for toys also.
Initially she was rough on my hands with the food but I slowed her down a little as she got older and she is easy on the hands now.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Some dogs outgrow the hard mouthed treat taking. Some never have a problem. Some never get over it without training. 
My older GSD will still slam my fingers if I'm not careful. Not important to me cause it keeps other folks from giving him treats.......more then once. :grin: 
If I tell him "easy" it's not a problem but, in training, I think that "easy" command interupts the marker so I just take the hit. :-o Ouch!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

It all depends upon what you are trying to teach the dog/puppy. We all work for food and the paycheck that gives us things. For general puppy training in obedience, diced hotdogs or Biljack treats are nice. Hotdogs for Schutzhund footstep tracking is popular. *NEVER *use weiners for bite work =;

As far as clickers go, I don't use them. I want my voice to be the "marker" for success, using the dog's name and the command with the act. Each person has the tools and tricks that make them sussessful in the venue that they are working. Never used hotdogs for herding either, the fact that the dog gets to work sheep is the reward. Besides they steal enough sheep poop for a good treat! :-o


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Lyn Chen said:


> blood from fingers getting snapped, etc.


Or, instead of using your hands, you could spit the treats out of your mouth. Unless you have a dog that tries to jump up to get the treats from your mouth and bites your face. That's just not fun. I don't know anything about that from personal experience, of course


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> As far as clickers go, I don't use them. I want my voice to be the "marker" for success, using the dog's name and the command with the act. Each person has the tools and tricks that make them sussessful in the venue that they are working.


I only use the clicker for teaching and shaping with food. Once I move to the toy then I use my voice marker "YES".

I think in the beginning stages of basic OB you can beat the speed and consistency of the clicker. I use the karen pryor iClick clickers that maker holding and clicking the gosh darned thing a lot easier.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Konnie said;
"Or, instead of using your hands, you could spit the treats out of your mouth."

Although I know this is very popular, I prefer not to use it. Our whole training is based on eye contact with the dog. With spitting food, the dog is looking at the face because that's where the food comes from. I want the dog to look at my eyes/face even if I have food in both hands, right out in the open. 
This is a very subtle difference. Just something I'm picky about. Semantics! :grin:


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Interesting you would say that Bob. When working with the ball and "heel", he tends to want to look at my face, rather than the ball, although he really wants the ball.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ted White said:


> Interesting you would say that Bob. When working with the ball and "heel", he tends to want to look at my face, rather than the ball, although he really wants the ball.


I would gues that you initially taught him eye contact for the reward. As I commented, the eye contact is the foundation for all out training. Even bite work.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I never used food much until lately. It was always a ball or tug given as a reward after a chain of things was completed. If something wasn't done in the chain, he'd be put back to that spot and we'd go from there. 

This new guy we're working with is all about treats, and it's working. You can reward more often and mix it up more- reward without a set pattern and the dog anticipates the reward more, and will work better for you. Teaching something like a strict heel works great with food- with a toy, it's too much drive and he's all over the place because he wants to play. So in that respect, I think the lower drive motivator helps out.


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