# are people finally getting a clue about registrations?



## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/s...l-club-as-an-outlier.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Hope this link works. Big article in NY Times about the AKC. Interesting.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

So let me get this straight. A record keeping service is responsible for how other people are treating animals?....Sounds legit. 

If I understand this right than Ancestory.com is responsible for parents who neglect their kids.?

UScA, NARA, AWMA and USMRA are responsible for how people train because they hold trials?

E-harmony.com responsible everytime some dude smacks his girl for not making breakfast because they met there?

This article is a bunch of Bullshit. 

And Just because the AKC makes money on registering dogs does not mean they have to be the police everyone registering a dog. Just like a gun shop selling guns does not have to be responsible for every bullet fired out of that gun. 

The only people responsible for treating a dog like shit....Is the people treating the dog like shit. That's it.

The AKC has done more to protect dogs doing sports and their handlers than any other institution ever. If you use an E-collar, You can probably thank the AKC. Put your dog in a crate...AKC. On a leash out in the yard... AKC. Use a bark collar....AKC. Not have a nation wide BSL....AKC. crop and dock....AKC. If weren't for the AKC....the other 800lbs gorilla PETA would be all over our asses.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

=D>=D>


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

James Downey said:


> So let me get this straight. A record keeping service is responsible for how other people are treating animals?....Sounds legit.
> 
> If I understand this right than Ancestory.com is responsible for parents who neglect their kids.?
> 
> ...


+1 Be careful of which bandwagon you hop on. If there is another entity that puts this amount of time and money into the continued right to engage in dog breeding, exhibiting, training, etc. without government or otherwise interference, please let me know.

T


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

Well I have to humbly disagree. The A.K.C. does have "some" responsibilities. How many breeds have gone South because they have included them in their registry? Own an American German shepherd? Rottweiler? Cocker spaniel? & so on. They in their almighty wisdom have chosen many times to ignore the original standard of country of origin causing numerous health & structural issues. Back to the American German shepherd, from Champion lines over used as studs that threw generations of awful temperaments.
No we can't judge them with a shovel either but when people advertise Champion lines to the average Joe/Jo that thinks its something special I believe it should come with some sort of disclaimer.
When I hear Ch. lines or A.K.C. Registered I cringe. By the way I have a truck for sale that's DMV registered, so you should buy it because of that? Well if so please call me. :-\" 
Their CGC test isn't that great? Hardly a test in my humble estimation. I think just about any dog should be able to pass it. But I appreciate that at least some effort has to be applied. Saints or Sinners how would you weigh what they have truly done for breeds. On their behalf I would say there has been improvement, long over-do. If they want to be almighty then do as they should. Pup mills suck & anyone who mistreats animals I'd personally like to meet in a dark alley.:twisted:


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Steve Estrada said:


> Well I have to humbly disagree. The A.K.C. does have "some" responsibilities. How many breeds have gone South because they have included them in their registry? Own an American German shepherd? Rottweiler? Cocker spaniel? & so on. They in their almighty wisdom have chosen many times to ignore the original standard of country of origin causing numerous health & structural issues. Back to the American German shepherd, from Champion lines over used as studs that threw generations of awful temperaments.
> No we can't judge them with a shovel either but when people advertise Champion lines to the average Joe/Jo that thinks its something special I believe it should come with some sort of disclaimer.
> When I hear Ch. lines or A.K.C. Registered I cringe. By the way I have a truck for sale that's DMV registered, so you should buy it because of that? Well if so please call me. :-\"
> Their CGC test isn't that great? Hardly a test in my humble estimation. I think just about any dog should be able to pass it. But I appreciate that at least some effort has to be applied. Saints or Sinners how would you weigh what they have truly done for breeds. On their behalf I would say there has been improvement, long over-do. If they want to be almighty then do as they should. Pup mills suck & anyone who mistreats animals I'd personally like to meet in a dark alley.:twisted:


 
Breeders ruin dogs, not registeries. The country of origin ignores their own standard. This is not just an AKC phenomenon. AKC doesn't have anything to do with standards. That's the parent breed club. The Martin brothers created just as much travesty in GSDs as any American line over-angulation and the SV breeding system on health has done nothing to improve health in GSDS. I've had several American line GSDs and none of them had incorrect temperaments and they were structurally correct. Buyers need to know what they are buying regrdless of who is selling. I've seen BS from all corners of the dog game. I spend quite a bit of time with AKC breeders and exhibitors and know the time, money and heartache they put into breeding solid, healthy dogs, including dogs that can perform their historical function. Competition and money control the dog game, not breeding to purists breed standards. I cringe when I see working LINE dogs advertised and the work is in the 4th generation long with any health testing. Money and marketing. 

T


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

I agree with most of what you stated "T", it is prevalent everywhere & breeders are responsible but I still believe AKC has a responsibility, we all do. I do lots of probono work with shelters/rescues doing evaluations & I see temperament as the biggest problem. I always tell people that should be the first priority in selection of any dog (temperament) I'm not against the AKC just not for them either. JMHO


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Steve Estrada said:


> I agree with most of what you stated "T", it is prevalent everywhere & breeders are responsible but I still believe AKC has a responsibility, we all do. I do lots of probono work with shelters/rescues doing evaluations & I see temperament as the biggest problem. I always tell people that should be the first priority in selection of any dog (temperament) I'm not against the AKC just not for them either. JMHO


Steve, I understand where you are coming from but I feel like working people should grow a set and opt out of AKC as did working line BCs if they feel that strongly about it, but that ability to participate in Registery backed sports adds to the price folks can charge for a puppy/dog or even place them for that matter. Until there are sports not controlled by registries with national/world level competition, nothing is going to change. People talk about the KNPV dogs and two things are important: 1) not controlled by a registry; 2) purity isn't required. Could a KNPV system survive here? Are there any breeders here that would opt out of the registry system? Better dogs come from breeding, selection and the right placement. Those of us that bring them into the world are responsible for that. I don't consider myself pro any registry, really. As for temperament, I'm in an ongoing conversation with a group of friends, that its something that you breed and select for--not train or condition. Eventually, in the right situation, genetics will come out in the wash. For registeries, registrations = profits and they aren't that discriminating as to where those profits come from. Its the hobbyists supplying the window dressing that bear the brunt of any attempts to regulate and control breeding. Puppy mills have been using alternative registrations for years to escape AKC's DNA program. We see stories about Crufts and Westminster but how many states don't want the potential revenues from those USDA kennels or the Feds for that matter. I don't know how many pure bred dogs you see in shelters but I spent my teenage years volunteering in one and it was a rarity. I also spent several years doing breed rescue and working with local shelters and participated in a puppy mill auction under cover. There are some puppymills on the east coast that could use little exposure I'm sure. Perhaps the NYT should indulge. In a shelter or rescue situation, its difficult to assess the why of the temperament you are evaluating. I'm a firm believer that if it was there to begin with, there's a good chance someone can bring it back. Only by taking it through a rehabilitation process will I know though. Furthermore, you can do your job in the breeding and in the whelping box and the wrong management can still have that animal presenting like a basket case. In discussing temperament, do we ever get a consensus of what good is? How much forgiveness for inappropriate behavior do you see because the dog has "drives?" I don't think too many lay people really know what good temperament is and that goes for some breeders as well.

We can't push for breeders to improve dogs if we buy into laying the blame at the registry's door. I would love to know more about Sweden's system incidentally. I don't know how AKC can be any more responsible and have the ability to police breeders. I don't think policing breeders has helped dogs though in the systems that I know about. 

T


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