# 12 Weeks Old



## ShayLee Neal (Nov 11, 2011)

So Simi, as I've been calling the pup, even though it's not a L name, is now 12 weeks old, and to be 100% honest, I don't feel like I've done much of anything with her. 

I've started her basic obedience stuff using clicker training and offered behaviour and she's got her sit command just about mastered and we've been working a LOT on loose lead walking. I don't want a heel position ALL of the time, but just a loose lead would be nice. That said, she's rocking that. Even when taken out and about with lots of sights and smells and people cooing at her she walks beside me, offering eye contact a lot and paying sharp attention to where I am at all times. 

Now I'm just wondering what I should be doing in terms of building up for schutzhund. We've been doing tugging sessions where she often wins and gets the tug. Right now I've got a skin-eez tied to some nylon that I've been dragging and spinning around and letting her chase, then I let her catch it and from there, bend down and tug straight with her and when she's got a good solid bite and is actually countering me I let go and let her "claim her prize" for a little bit, then start again. I've been "taking" the toy from her while she's still interested in it, but using when she re-adjusts her bite, or puts it into the ground to chew on it to pull it away from her and drag it on the ground.

Long story short, I'm just asking opinions of what things you think I should be working on now to encourage the drive and stuff for schutzhund. We're going to see her breeder this weekend so I'll have some suggestions from her, hopefully, but until then! 

Thanks!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ShayLee Neal said:


> So Simi, as I've been calling the pup, even though it's not a L name, is now 12 weeks old, and to be 100% honest, I don't feel like I've done much of anything with her.
> 
> I've started her basic obedience stuff using clicker training and offered behaviour and she's got her sit command just about mastered and we've been working a LOT on loose lead walking. I don't want a heel position ALL of the time, but just a loose lead would be nice. That said, she's rocking that. Even when taken out and about with lots of sights and smells and people cooing at her she walks beside me, offering eye contact a lot and paying sharp attention to where I am at all times.
> 
> ...


If it was me, I would let the pup grow up...play with the pup, get it out everywhere...and forget about "training for schutzhund", build drive, prey/ hunt, and start doing tracking games...let it grow up some..plenty of time...

I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED SPORT TRAINER....so just saying what I would do...all that crap can come later..you want a happy, confident pup...and if you dont really know what you are doing, get with some trainers..

how do you get the toy away? I cant get anything away from my pup, without choking him off of it...or getting him to drop it, by offering something else, and waiting for him to figure out he cannot hold EVERYTHING in his little mouth at once....


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## ShayLee Neal (Nov 11, 2011)

Joby, mostly I just wait until she's at her weakest. I have a border collie who I don't use a release command with AT ALL. I just "snatch" it from her. 

With Simi what I've been doing is when she goes to regrip it, right at that exact moment when she has her mouth open, pull. It doesn't always work. In fact, most often it doesn't, because she's too fast! Her toy drive isn't that crazy high yet, I don't find. She's not INSANE about them, but really does like them. 

That's correct, I want a happy, confident pup, but with sports in mind I want to be sure I'm not missing or ruining prime times I could be really building on something we'll need in the future.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ShayLee Neal said:


> Joby, mostly I just wait until she's at her weakest. I have a border collie who I don't use a release command with AT ALL. I just "snatch" it from her.
> 
> With Simi what I've been doing is when she goes to regrip it, right at that exact moment when she has her mouth open, pull. It doesn't always work. In fact, most often it doesn't, because she's too fast! Her toy drive isn't that crazy high yet, I don't find. She's not INSANE about them, but really does like them.
> 
> That's correct, I want a happy, confident pup, but with sports in mind I want to be sure I'm not missing or ruining prime times I could be really building on something we'll need in the future.


ah ok...well good luck. hopefully someone will give you good pointers...cute pup


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## ShayLee Neal (Nov 11, 2011)

Joby Becker said:


> ah ok...well good luck. hopefully someone will give you good pointers...cute pup


Thanks!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Shaylee, i was gonna add to what Joby said, but on second thought, how about showing your breeder the same techniques you are using now for your drive building and releasing, etc .... run thru all the same paces as you have described and then give us a nice "debrief" ... i would be glad to offer my .02 at that point 
- i'm always interested to hear how breeders follow up and assist their buyers after the sale, so for me, i'd rather you see the breeder with a "clean slate" so to speak, rather than go with the "i read i should do this" approach


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Try trading her for some food! It works well when they're little. You can work on the 'out' as she grows, as it won't work for long.  The Michael Ellis puppy bitework videos and tug videos are awesome.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


> If it was me, I would let the pup grow up.......


 Agree with Joby. Don't be in a hurry to wish puppyhood away!!!!!;-)


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

ShayLee Neal said:


> ... I have a border collie who I don't use a release command with AT ALL. I just "snatch" it from her. With Simi what I've been doing is when she goes to regrip it, right at that exact moment when she has her mouth open, pull. It doesn't always work. In fact, most often it doesn't, because she's too fast! Her toy drive isn't that crazy high yet, I don't find. She's not INSANE about them, but really does like them...


 You have two herding breeds, PREY BEHAVIORS. Why snatch it away and run the risk i\of injury to the teeth or becoming MORE attached? Regrips should be rewarded, not punished. So taking it awawy quickly does what...? Makes them want to keep it or not try. Unless I'm misreading this thread...


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

ShayLee, 
 In my inexperienced opinion, I wouldn’t be doing a anything other than letting the pup be a pup. I have a female dutchie that’s also 12 weeks and when she comes out of the kennel it’s all play. My typical play session is this, pull out a couple tugs, toys, or rags and make them fun to bite. Let her bite, tug a bit, pet her up and let her win it. I never take the prey from her. I just grab another toy and make it more interesting than the one she has then repeat the process. I also always put her up in drive, short intense sessions even though she would play all day if I let her. I may not have read it correctly but you said you take the tug from her when she is readjusting her bite? Personally, I never do this; in fact I do the opposite. If she adjusts for a deeper full mouth bite, she wins the tug. The only other thing I really do with her is take her different places to explore and socialize with the environment. Thought this might help, kinda see how someone else does it. There is more than one way to skin a cat and more than one way to train a dog. Good luck and enjoy the puppy!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: "Long story short, I'm just asking opinions of what things you think I should be working on now to encourage the drive and stuff for schutzhund. We're going to see her breeder this weekend so I'll have some suggestions from her, hopefully, but until then! "

so...... should we be waiting for the breeder report on how the pup was evaluated and what they recommend you do, etc ?

the reason i'm asking is i hesitate to offer suggestions on doing things way different from the way you are doing things now, and figured you'd be a lot more receptive to what your breeder tells you.

and, as you can probably imagine, i do not agree at all with the way you are currently working on getting any of your dogs to release something they have in their mouth 

of course, letting a pup be a pup is great advice IF you have a clear idea of how you want them to act when they mature and what your plans are for the pup at that point....otherwise you are often conditioning a problem you have to solve later when they are bigger and stronger


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

What do you mean when you say you are working on a "loose lead walk"? 

Personally I don't do much with puppies myself, especially little puppies, I find it easier to train them in drive, when they get a little older, but again, that's just my personal preference.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi:

If you are working on bitework sport stuff, I'd recommend Balabanov's "The Game" and the Michael Ellis videos. Personally, I'd put off the tug work until you've watched and understood the videos or preferably worked with a decoy/helper that can show you how. Also, I don't think it hurts to wait until they have their adult teeth. Meanwhile the clicker obedience and maybe even some of the beginner tracking is fun to play with as far as laying a foundation. I'm with the others as far as snatching something from the dog--I really hate to see that. A clicker trained out is a another behavior you can train.

Terrasita


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'd do what Joby Becker said and let the pup become a confident pup before I started on anything "serious" with it. There is so much you can do to form a pup, playfully. In this time you can learn how the future training could emerge. This way you learn how the pup reacts to the environment, etc. 

Too many new pup owners worry themselves sick about how the pup is going to be when it's adult that they forget that they can enjoy the pup.

I often ask why people bother to buy a pup when what they are dreaming is of a Trial Winner. No offence in your case but just take one day at a time and learn to read and know your pup - if you concentrate on this and stop worrying about what you're doing wrong, it's a very interesting experience.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm going through the puppy stuff again with a 9 week old GSD. Hollering in the kennel, eating poop, jumping in the cold farm pond, looking at the big dogs in their kennel with a "What?" look on her face.

The only way to screw it up and do damage is beating the hell out of it and BREAKING the bond. Pack leaders should be the Center of the Universe to the little ones. When Yaga comes running, I have lots of good treats and hugs...:twisted:

She will get big soon enough!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I'm going through the puppy stuff again with a 9 week old GSD. Hollering in the kennel, eating poop, jumping in the cold farm pond, looking at the big dogs in their kennel with a "What?" look on her face.
> 
> The only way to screw it up and do damage is beating the hell out of it and BREAKING the bond. Pack leaders should be the Center of the Universe to the little ones. When Yaga comes running, I have lots of good treats and hugs...:twisted:
> 
> She will get big soon enough!


Yep! My little bitch pup thinks she's hot shit. So funny! That's the thing I really enjoy about puppies, just watching them simply be puppies and all that comes while they discover the world around them.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Yep! My little bitch pup thinks she's hot shit. So funny! That's the thing I really enjoy about puppies, just watching them simply be puppies and all that comes while they discover the world around them.


Susan this IS THE REASON I've enjoyed teaching (28 years)...watching things grow up. When you take a 9th grader with that "deer in the headlight eyes"...shape them into a "productive being" and then kick them out as seniors...gotta love it!

This nasty little bugger has gobbled up my wrists, walks on water, and yes thinks she's hot. :-$


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