# Martial Arts and Helper Work



## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

I started helper work back in June and had to stop because the trainer's dog broke its leg. Since then, I've moved to Cullowhee, NC for university, and it seems like finding people to train with within a reasonable distance is damn near impossible.

Anyway. I've taken up karate (though really, what we're learning is kind of stolen from all sorts of other martial arts), because I was told by my previous trainer that it would help with my balance, strength, reaction speed, and overall improve the quality of my helper work. Trust me, I'm a pretty small guy (145lbs soaking wet), and as it is, I don't exactly have the best coordination or sense of balance... Gravity has not always been a friend of mine, heh.

I don't want to sit around idle for the next year or two if I can be doing something that could improve my ability to work dogs, without actually having any dogs around to work and learn off of. Granted, I know I can't actually improve my helper work if I'm not working any dogs, but would those of you who are/were helpers agree that some sort of martial arts training can be beneficial when working dogs? Have you noticed a difference in people who have/have not had any sort of MA training?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How old are you ?

Not trying to make fun, but there is always reality. If gravity is not really your friend, I doubt that martial arts class is going to help.

I think Hockey is AWESOME. However, no matter how may times I get out on the ice, it was never something that I was NOT going to suck at.

However, I say keep going. I have seen enough people wearing suits that cannot walk and chew gum at the same time, to not try and discourage you.


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## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm eighteen.

I just don't have the best sense of returning to balance, if that makes sense. There is generally a lot of flailing involved and not knowing where to put my feet. And I have piss-poor upper body strength.

I've met people like that (can't walk and chew gum, trip on air, etc), and I'm nowhere near as bad, lol. I played soccer and baseball for years and never felt like I improved any, so I never continued with it; but I could already feel myself improving with each lesson when I was doing helper work. So all is not lost. x)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You need to keep playing soccer. The reason you never got better is your foot work sucked. Work on your foot work.


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

The Karate won't do you any harm, and you might not put on weight naturally for another 5yrs. I think you are trying to capitalise on the time you have until you can train properly with dogs again.

In terms of fitness, research Functional Training i.e. training for what you do; the NFL Off Season training on You Tube is quite good, it combines speed and strength with turns etc. At you age you will have a natural stamina supported by the fact you carry little weight at the moment. Also have a look at Kettlebell Training, the awkward weight and movements would help condition you to helper work.

In the UK the Cross Fit Training is very popular, developed in the states its very tough weight training involving speed and explosive power.

Don't get too disheartened by the 145lbs issue, concentrate on diet/exercise, you will soon spend the rest of life worrying about your gutbucket.

Cheers

Mark


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

They have good colleges in Texas. LOL Lots of soccer and I have a couple of dogs or more that you could work.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Mark Horne said:


> The Karate won't do you any harm, and you might not put on weight naturally for another 5yrs. I think you are trying to capitalise on the time you have until you can train properly with dogs again.
> 
> In terms of fitness, research Functional Training i.e. training for what you do; the NFL Off Season training on You Tube is quite good, it combines speed and strength with turns etc. At you age you will have a natural stamina supported by the fact you carry little weight at the moment. Also have a look at Kettlebell Training, the awkward weight and movements would help condition you to helper work.
> 
> ...


I agree with Mark . I will add there are alot of gyms that have trainers using MMA type workout methods that can help you with balance and strength . You can tell them your goals and explain the needs and for being an effective K9 helper . Hell I could see some encorporating a bitesuit into it if you could get ahold of one . They can even give you a diet plan if you really want to bulk up . 

I did it for a few months . It was spendy but the trainer gave me the full training journal for me after that so I didn't need her after that . Plus I choose a state champ figure/bikini competitor as a trainer and it kept my mind off how bad she was kickin my a** . I have a bad shoulder from catching dogs as well as a bad knee . She did a very good job of rehabing them to a certain degree . She took it slow for awhile on those areas butby the time I was done I was back shoulder pressing 60lb dumbells with no pain . Not alot of wait compared to what I used to do but I sure got some strength back and actually have shoulder muscles again .

If you go that route just make sure you get a trainer with a reputable education and not one with a bunch of internet certifications . Really easy to verify their certifications .


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

I remember a decoy (FR & Mondio guy) saying he did either CrossFit or something that sounded a lot like CrossFit.

I'd recommend RossTraining with Ross Enamait. He's basically a Boxer that trains Boxers and Martial Artists of various disciplines, and his program seems more balanced than CrossFit, especially with the Strength & Conditioning. CrossFit just seems kind of one-dimensional as far as being primarily conditioning-based. Plus, Ross is all sorts of awesome, friendly, and cheaper. Possibly a LOT cheaper and they are fun with a lot of emphasis on using body weight or things that are readily available a/o cheap or easily constructed. I'll admit a bias, but if you are getting into Martial Arts he's kind of the man. His books are all great, and there is a lot of free stuff in his articles & on the forum.
http://rosstraining.com/blog/

Also, I wonder if Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, a/o Wrestling might not be beneficial. If you like Karate, by all means stick with it. I just wonder if the body movements of grappling/wrestling might not be good in getting you more aware of how your body moves and just _seem_ closer to the flow of how decoys work with dogs. But I could be wrong about that, just thinking aloud.

Best of luck!

-Cheers


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jeff is right for once. It is all in the foot work, but soccer is as gay as SCH and they both dress the same. I think you should really try ballet. From this question it sounds like it is better suited for you


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## Jim Howe (Apr 24, 2010)

Any Martial Art takes time, and if you need to work on your balance and coordination, Martial Arts training will certainly help. Just be patient and it will come. I have been active in the Martial Arts for 32 years and instructing MA's for the past 27 years, so I can tell you first hand that it will pay off in your abilities as a decoy/helper. One of the new PSD handlers that I had recently trained had a background in Goju-Ryu Karate and some boxing, and his movement (even as a new decoy/helper) was very good. Actually considerably better than most others that I have trained for the K-9 Unit.

As for weight training and getting stronger, perhaps there is a gym at the university that you are attending. Try to stick with basic routines as you start out, and be sure to work your whole body with some emphasis on core strength (abs, obliques, and lower back). Again, take your time and don't over do it. Dumbells are usually better than straight bar exercises since they allow the muscles to work through the full range of movement as well as working the smaller stabilizing muscles under the larger muscles and can also help strengthen the connecting tissue at the joints.

You're on the right track Tobias. Good luck!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

There was a Super sport competition on TV yrs back where athletes of all sports competed against one another. 
The Soccer players were always in the top. The Pole vaulters :-o (really) always seemed to do well and the Moto cross riders where also always at the top. 
Back in the 60-70s? it was popular for a lot of the Pro football players to take ballet lessons to improver their motor skills. Rosy Greere did needle point. Not sure if that's why he was such a BA player though. :-k
I earned a black belt and competed in Tae Kwon Do competition and demos some yrs ago and I even amazed myself with the things I was able to do. 
The key words here are "some yrs ago" and "was".


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> Jeff is right for once. It is all in the foot work, but soccer is as gay as SCH and they both dress the same. I think you should really try ballet. From this question it sounds like it is better suited for you


 LOL Chris!!!
Martial Arts can help, but like with anything, if you have no skill nothing will help! Judo is great as you are trained to center your balance, Karate is good for the hand and foot speed, but nothing beats working LOTS of dogs and doing it well and under the guidance of someone.

It really goes back to skills and mechanics. Someone who is as slow as a snail and can't read a dog will have a time catching them. Jamming, flying catches, walking on the dog's feet, and the helper falling down can take place. So, you can defend with a roundhouse kick but you can't safely WORK and read a dog...

Find a "Master" Grasshopper!


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## Charles Guyer (Nov 6, 2009)

Unfortunately you are in possibly the most desolate area of the southeast. If Butch and his club are still training in Hendersonville it would be worth the drive a couple of times a week. Show up with your own gear and be persistent and modest. There is no substitute for being in front of dogs. 
Try to make the most of what the good lord gave you in terms of hand-eye. Pick up racquetball


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

if he played soccer he would just fall down and cry every time a dog ran into him until they brought out a stretcher to carry him off the field


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

I did karate for 13 years and have done Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for the past 6 years. In my opinion a grappling art (BJJ, Judo, or Wrestling) would be better for improving your balance for catching dogs. 

Karate (depending on where you go) will most likely involve lots of very static punching and kicking and deep stances. Your balance will get better, but I think getting lots of practice trying to stay vertical while a wrestler is going for your legs for a takedown or a Judoka is wrapping up your arm for a throw would be more of a transferrable skill. It's a lot more dynamic and you have to develop balance (known as "base" in grappling circles) that adjusts to the outside forces exerted against you. That said, there is nothing like sport specific training. If at all possible, catch dogs if you want to get better at catching dogs.

P.S. Kettlebells are pretty cool too.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Michael Swetz said:


> ... If at all possible, catch dogs if you want to get better at catching dogs.
> 
> P.S. Kettlebells are pretty cool too.


Kettlebells! Right, drop one of those on your foot and you can forget about anything physical. 
DING-DONG

I must agree with the idea of more in the venue you are doing. Some folks don't do leg bites and knowing how the body reachs is like doing top shoulders bites on a run-a-way... The body finds new ways to make you go AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Kettlebells! Right, drop one of those on your foot and you can forget about anything physical.
> DING-DONG


Pay attention to what you're doing :lol:. You can drop any dumbell, weight plate, or heavy item you happen to be carrying on your foot.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Martial arts training can be a great base for helper work. A good helper can even use his martial arts experience to show the dog new moves. Check out this vid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrUDWv99GVM


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

Go ahead and do it, it can't hurt in any case. 

You'll have exercised your body, you can get some more balance and become more quick and nimble, learn how to move more efficiently and faster, it will help your reflexes when catching the dogs later on and who knows, you may have to use it to even defend yourself, if needed, later in life.

So, all in all, go for it, and enjoy martial arts.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> Martial arts training can be a great base for helper work. A good helper can even use his martial arts experience to show the dog new moves. Check out this vid!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrUDWv99GVM


 Nice dog work...calm, focused, and never busted a gut once!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Martial Arts can help, but like with anything, if you have no skill nothing will help! Judo is great as you are trained to center your balance, Karate is good for the hand and foot speed, but nothing beats working LOTS of dogs and doing it well and under the guidance of someone.
> 
> It really goes back to skills and mechanics. Someone who is as slow as a snail and can't read a dog will have a time catching them. Jamming, flying catches, walking on the dog's feet, and the helper falling down can take place. So, you can defend with a roundhouse kick but you can't safely WORK and read a dog...
> 
> Find a "Master" Grasshopper!


Yes Tobias find a master!  

But finding a master in a Ring, Mondio, PSA or SchH club is where you should be going as well, not just putting all your eggs into the dojo for your skills. 

Martial Arts yes are great for helping your core balance and being stronger on your feet. But as Howard points out you need to learn about dogs as well or you can still fail miserably without learning how to read dogs in the first place. If you see a dog sport seminar in your area by all means *GO!* Even as a spectator that is a great way to network and maybe work some experienced dogs. 

Some of the most amazing French Ringsport decoys I've seen have come from many backgrounds. Some are ex pro soccer players some are ex high tier Olympic level competitive swimmers, some are MMA artists, some are farmers. So as you see these guys don't come from the same place to arrive on a field somewhere catching dogs in competition. 

So find that dog master as well as your dojo master too and you'll do fantastic! Sounds like you have the right attitude to succeed!


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Michael Swetz said:


> P.S. Kettlebells are pretty cool too.


Hey Michael, do you find there is much you can do with Kettlebells but can't with dumbbells? I've wanted a full set of Kettlebells for years but have never been able to justify the expense. But I remember reading a bunch of stuff from Pavel Tsatsouline and getting geeked out about his training (with Kettlebells and just his theory in general) several years ago. They always seemed cool, and Pavel seems like a total man's man, but I've always stuck with barbell & dumbbell training just based on cost.

-Cheers


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

David Ruby said:


> Hey Michael, do you find there is much you can do with Kettlebells but can't with dumbbells? I've wanted a full set of Kettlebells for years but have never been able to justify the expense. But I remember reading a bunch of stuff from Pavel Tsatsouline and getting geeked out about his training (with Kettlebells and just his theory in general) several years ago. They always seemed cool, and Pavel seems like a total man's man, but I've always stuck with barbell & dumbbell training just based on cost.
> 
> -Cheers


I think most of the things could be done with dumbbells, but the centrifical forces will be pretty different. I noticed a big difference in how many stabilizing muscles got worked with the kettlebell since the weight wasn't resting in the same plane as my hand. I'd also be a little more worried about smacking myself in the crotch or leg doing a swing with a dumbbell. 

If you're curious to give it a try, just pick up a single kettlebell and give it a test run. That's what I've been doing and so far I've been pretty surprised by it. I had just gotten bored with my usual weight routine and hadn't been doing it as a result. A friend of mine suggested trying kettlebells so I picked up a 25lb and a 35lb one at a play-it-again sports for $1.50/lb. I did about 6-7 minutes of exercises with the 25lb and was totally spent. I like getting some cardio in along with some functional strength training.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

OK kettle talk...what's the chances of doing joint damage using kettles in bulk weight? Lighter weight and more reps with dumbbells...:-k


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> OK kettle talk...what's the chances of doing joint damage using kettles in bulk weight? Lighter weight and more reps with dumbbells...:-k


A lot of joint problems from weight training are due to improper technique-benching with the arms flared out at a 90 degree angle from your body, or squatting so your knees are way out in front like a catcher stance, deadlifting and not leading with your head to keep your hips down. The other main factor is not building a good base strength before you start hitting the heavy stuff. Ligaments and tendons don't strengthen as fast as muscles do, you push too hard too fast, and you end up with joint problems. But even if you build up slow, age catches up with you eventually...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kettle bells!
I have them, I like them but they could be looked at as the nimchucks (sp) of the free weights when it comes to banging wrists if not used properly.
Good for a good core workout!


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> OK kettle talk...what's the chances of doing joint damage using kettles in bulk weight? Lighter weight and more reps with dumbbells...:-k


Just like with any strength training, use improper technique and/or too much weight too fast and you'll hurt yourself. You know how many people I've seen swing their hips curling, twist their backs benching, and hunching their spines deadlifting too much weight?

What's the chances of doing joint damage using dumbbells in bulk weight? Lighter weight and more reps with kettlebells...:-k 

Did you hurt yourself with a kettlebell or something? You seem to have quite a beef with them.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

We just had a MMA fighter fly out here for decoy cert in PSA. He had great natural talent. Not sure if it was just him or if the martial arts helped? Either way, he is a safe decoy even if he looks like the Incredible Hulk.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Natural talent goes a long way no matter what you do. 
I don't think most people get to the top without at least some natural talent.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Dan Long said:


> A lot of joint problems from weight training are due to improper technique-benching with the arms flared out at a 90 degree angle from your body, or squatting so your knees are way out in front like a catcher stance, deadlifting and not leading with your head to keep your hips down. The other main factor is not building a good base strength before you start hitting the heavy stuff. Ligaments and tendons don't strengthen as fast as muscles do, you push too hard too fast, and you end up with joint problems. But even if you build up slow, age catches up with you eventually...


 I thought, if any one knew...AGE! Oh, you meant RAGE...got it. Thanks.


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