# Working Rottweilers!!!



## Gregory Escolta

Ive seen a few that I like conformationally speaking... But I am looking for a strict PPD that will be stable enough to be around my family!


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## Meng Xiong

I train under a guy who i'd consider to be one of the most influential Rotti breeders in the states, Jenecks. I really like the way his dogs work, all around, and I think most will agree.

Why do you need a PPD?


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## Chris Michalek

I have one. Trained. Perfect temperment, works like a shepherd and is an executive level protection dog. $50,000


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## Meng Xiong

Chris Michalek said:


> I have one. Trained. Perfect temperment, works like a shepherd and is an executive level protection dog. $50,000


LoL... executive level trained! I couldn't help but laugh a little... geez...


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## Maren Bell Jones

Hey Chris, where did your male come from again? I remember you said a while back and I may have even bookmarked it, but I'm on a new computer and can't find it. PM me if you like. ;-)

PS: I can only afford $30,000.


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## Gregory Escolta

Meng Xiong said:


> I train under a guy who i'd consider to be one of the most influential Rotti breeders in the states, Jenecks. I really like the way his dogs work, all around, and I think most will agree.
> 
> Why do you need a PPD?


 
I want a PPD so I can work with it, as well as have a sense of security for my family when I am not around. Jenecks huh? Ill check him out! Thanks again. U work with American Bulldogs as well right?


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## Keith Jenkins

Meng Xiong said:


> I train under a guy who i'd consider to be one of the most influential Rotti breeders in the states, Jenecks. I really like the way his dogs work, all around, and I think most will agree.
> 
> Why do you need a PPD?


You need to use Jenecks in the past tense as one of the most influential Rottweiler breeders in the the US. Please point to all the working dogs Eckart has produced in the last 10 years that has done anything outside his back-yard other than Sam and Pike.


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## Chris Michalek

Meng Xiong said:


> LoL... executive level trained! I couldn't help but laugh a little... geez...


Hey, I'm the CEO of a company. I may also be the secretary, janitor and delivery boy but that doesn't mean my dog is any less an executive level protection dog. Middle Management Protection Dog just doesn't sound as cool.


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## Kevin Barrett

I personlly like Redwood Crest. They have nice looking and working rotts.


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## Gregory Escolta

Kevin Barrett said:


> I personlly like Redwood Crest. They have nice looking and working rotts.


 
The dog in your avatar looks amazing! Thank you for yourresponse as well!


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## Kevin Barrett

Thanks she out of Miak Von Der Frankentanne, he was a good rottweiler. Looks like you ruffeled some feathers.


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## Gregory Escolta

Kevin Barrett said:


> Thanks she out of Miak Von Der Frankentanne, he was a good rottweiler. Looks like you ruffeled some feathers.


 
When working with American Bullies, its bound to happen.... I came here to learn about working Rottweilers and Dutch Shepherds, but soon as the crown caught wind of me owning bullies it was like all hell broke loose. I am trying to move into a diff. direction and actually learn some stuff now! It just sucks that everyone hates me as a person now cuz I have the dogs... But hey, I still got my health right


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## Lee H Sternberg

Chris Michalek said:


> I have one. Trained. Perfect temperment, works like a shepherd and is an executive level protection dog. $50,000


Okay if we are going to sell some dogs to this dude. I have one I might part with for $50,000. She is very sweet and lovable. She is great with my kid. She is perfect in a family environment. She relaxes and hangs out around the house. She gets a tad different with outsiders. She HATES anyone outside of her pack. She requires firm strong repetitive obedience or she can get out of control quickly. She tends to come up the leash with any other handler but me so I would suggest a few training lessons. She is not a relaxing dog to own. I'm sure I can't replace her. I love her but $50,000 sounds interesting.:lol:


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## Gregory Escolta

Kevin Barrett said:


> Thanks she out of Miak Von Der Frankentanne, he was a good rottweiler. Looks like you ruffeled some feathers.


 
Wow, you werent kidding! Redwood Krest has some nice stuff... They specialize in working lines?


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## Kevin Barrett

Ya they are good people to. Good luck with everyone in hear the all got good memories. Don't feel bad the bully breeds are just going to always have a bad rep sadly. You never know you may put them on the map in a good way. I think the one you have pictured looks good. JMO don't attack me guys. LOL


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## Keith Jenkins

Nothing personal guys but I really don't think you'd know a working Rottweiler if it bit you in the ass.


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## Chris Michalek

Keith Jenkins said:


> Nothing personal guys but I really don't think you'd know a working Rottweiler if it bit you in the ass.



Well I do... and that's why I'm done with them. 

OP should stay away from Rotts and get a Dutchie.


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## Gregory Escolta

Keith Jenkins said:


> Nothing personal guys but I really don't think you'd know a working Rottweiler if it bit you in the ass.


Do you have some ideas that could help me in my quests?


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## Chris Michalek

Gregory Escolta said:


> Do you have some ideas that could help me in my quests?



Why do you want a Rottie? And what exactly do you want in one?


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## Gregory Escolta

Chris Michalek said:


> Why do you want a Rottie? And what exactly do you want in one?


I love molloser dogs. I want a high drive dog from "proven" working lines... I am drawn to rotties because I really like there looks, and admire there history... Not that I dnt like other breeds because I really love all breeds of dogs in there own right


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## Chris Michalek

Gregory Escolta said:


> I love molloser dogs. I want a high drive dog from "proven" working lines... I am drawn to rotties because I really like there looks, and admire there history... Not that I dnt like other breeds because I really love all breeds of dogs in there own right



if you want a dog based on looks, go to the show ring. If you want a dog based on how it works then get a shepherd.


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## Gregory Escolta

Chris Michalek said:


> if you want a dog based on looks, go to the show ring. If you want a dog based on how it works then get a shepherd.



Are you familiar w/ the Fleischerheim dogs? I do like GSD's, and I love the looks of these dogs... I am looking for a working dog first and foremost!


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## Chris Michalek

Gregory Escolta said:


> Are you familiar w/ the Fleischerheim dogs? I do like GSD's, and I love the looks of these dogs... I am looking for a working dog first and foremost!





> however I do not know about GSD'd because they were never my interest


isn't this a bit of a contradiction? 

ya a dog from that kennel would be fine for a guy like you. Now you can be a "ring" guy too!


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## Gregory Escolta

Chris Michalek said:


> isn't this a bit of a contradiction?
> 
> ya a dog from that kennel would be fine for a guy like you. Now you can be a "ring" guy too!


 Idk how you went from being helpful to being degrading... Sorry I dont have working dog experience and am good enough for this board... I came here to learn but I keep getting people like you offering nothing but insults... Thanks


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## Chris Michalek

Gregory Escolta said:


> Idk how you went from being helpful to being degrading... Sorry I dont have working dog experience and am good enough for this board... I came here to learn but I keep getting people like you offering nothing but insults... Thanks



I'm helping you but then you post BS show dogs and want them to do protection. How is it an insult when I point out the truth that you know nothing about dogs? You're going to need thicker skin if you're going to be training dogs especially if you pay $5000 for a POS.


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## Gregory Escolta

Chris Michalek said:


> I'm helping you but then you post BS show dogs and want them to do protection. How is it an insult when I point out the truth that you know nothing about dogs? You're going to need thicker skin if you're going to be training dogs especially if you pay $5000 for a POS.


 
I DO NOT WANT MY BULLIES TO DO PROTECTION! I have stated this like 10 different times! That is why I am looking for a working line Rottweiler. I may not know about PPD or Mondio, Or Schutzhund, or FRS, but that doesnt mean I dont know anything about dogs! Get off your high horse! Just because I am not knowledgable on it now doent mean that I am not out here actively to learn. As of yet your want to be condescending and give snide remarks... My skin is as thick as it gets... Thick enough to not sit here and take shit from anyone, especially not someone sitting behind a computer. All I want is valid info. If you cant be a part of my learning experience, go on another thread


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## brad robert

my experience with rottweilers so far has not been a good journey. i sought out a excellent bred working line dog and now the dog is two she has slowly matured into a powerful dog and with an absolute shit load of training has come quite a long way.
I have never trained this dog to ever be agressive but with her dominate personality she sees all children and dogs beneath her and would happily take to both.these dogs have me absolutly dumb founded i am in a club here and find a couple of dogs in the whole bunch have any prey drive aimed at toys all there drive is aimed at killing each other i hope you dont get attacked by someone with another dog cause your dog will be to bothered by it to help you. where my shepherd is the total opposite. 

i find that these dogs are more of a compound gaurd and probably a good ppd but there is just to many quirks(dog aggresion,just dont really want to work and get tired easily) that i will not be going back for more.i think the breed is gone to the show people and lacks good consistent working drive and stamina.


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## Keith Jenkins

I'm sure you're a fine upstanding young man Gregory but my suggestion is to move to safer a neighborhood and have stronger locks installed. 

If you insist on a PPD by all means take the advice given and go with a different breed. As a Rottweiler owner for over 20 years last thing we need is another 20 year old looking for a "bas ass" dog.


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## Sheena Tarrant

Gregory Escolta said:


> I DO NOT WANT MY BULLIES TO DO PROTECTION! I have stated this like 10 different times! That is why I am looking for a working line Rottweiler.


Gregory, you've certainly been taking a beating on the board since getting here. I think a lot of the knee jerk reaction you received was because you came on a working dog board and posted pictures of your Bullies and stated how athletic they are. I suppose the assumption was that you thought your Bullies were athletic for dogs in general rather than athletic for Bullies, and you were posting them on this board thinking they were suited for working dog purposes, and then you started a thread asking for people's opinions on them. It would be a bit like me starting a thread on this board about my (husband's ) French Bulldog and getting irritated when people said she wasn't suited for work, even though she's very athletic... for a Frenchie. You seemed to be coming on and stating how great your dogs are, and due to the nature of the board, people assumed you meant how great they are for work (which, as you know, isn't going to be the case with that breed). 

I think you have to decide what you want - if you want a breed because you like working with that breed (even with all its characteristics and traits and flaws), then get that breed, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it is going to be a top-drawer worker. If you want to get involved in one of the protection sports for the love of the sport, then get a breed ideally suited for that, which is not going to be anything involving 'bull' in the name, or a mastiff type, or a Rottweiler. 

Good luck in your search for information. You might want to try reading some of the old posts on this board, and use the search function to look for info. There is a lot of knowledge on here, and if you read carefully you can start to figure out which posters actually know what they're talking about and which posters just talk for the sake of it.


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## Edward Egan

Very well said Sheena! =D>


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## chris haynie

after spending alot of time researching and meeting many working malinois i fostered a french working line mal for a guy i used to work with. he had just taken a job overseas and needed somewhere for the dog to stay until his parents could get down here from NW oregon to pick her up. i found she drove me nuts, with the always "on" status.

i began last month expanding my working dog search to include other breeds that tend to do well in Schutzhund.

I have been looking into working line GSDs and just very recently been trying to find out about good solid working line rotties. still need to meet some and talk to more people to see if they might be more compatible with my personality than a Mal, but i think for me they might be worth considering. 

i have read alot about, and heard from people who know the working line rotties, that the 

schwaiger wappen and schwaiger rathaus dogs are fairly consistent producers of good Schutzhund sport dogs. 



also there is a guy on here named Andy Larimore who has an actual working rottie police dog named ivan_. 
_


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## Meng Xiong

Keith Jenkins said:


> You need to use Jenecks in the past tense as one of the most influential Rottweiler breeders in the the US. Please point to all the working dogs Eckart has produced in the last 10 years that has done anything outside his back-yard other than Sam and Pike.


Excuse my ignorance, but you are right. The man has been involved in the breed for over 30yrs and has reached an age where he isn't as active in the sport as he used to be, but he still breeds some good working dogs and is still very much active locally.


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## Meng Xiong

brad robert said:


> my experience with rottweilers so far has not been a good journey. i sought out a excellent bred working line dog and now the dog is two she has slowly matured into a powerful dog and with an absolute shit load of training has come quite a long way.
> I have never trained this dog to ever be agressive but with her dominate personality she sees all children and dogs beneath her and would happily take to both.these dogs have me absolutly dumb founded i am in a club here and find a couple of dogs in the whole bunch have any prey drive aimed at toys all there drive is aimed at killing each other i hope you dont get attacked by someone with another dog cause your dog will be to bothered by it to help you. where my shepherd is the total opposite.
> 
> i find that these dogs are more of a compound gaurd and probably a good ppd but there is just to many quirks(dog aggresion,just dont really want to work and get tired easily) that i will not be going back for more.i think the breed is gone to the show people and lacks good consistent working drive and stamina.


I don't own a Rott, yet, but the Rotts Ive seen work on our field in the last two years haven't shown any of the "quirks" that I keep hearing most people talk about. It really makes me curious. All the dogs ive seen are sociable although aloof, confident, no uncalled for dog aggression, great toy drive and plenty of fight... definately a versatile dog i'd like to own and work.


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## Gregory Escolta

brad robert said:


> my experience with rottweilers so far has not been a good journey. i sought out a excellent bred working line dog and now the dog is two she has slowly matured into a powerful dog and with an absolute shit load of training has come quite a long way.
> I have never trained this dog to ever be agressive but with her dominate personality she sees all children and dogs beneath her and would happily take to both.these dogs have me absolutly dumb founded i am in a club here and find a couple of dogs in the whole bunch have any prey drive aimed at toys all there drive is aimed at killing each other i hope you dont get attacked by someone with another dog cause your dog will be to bothered by it to help you. where my shepherd is the total opposite.
> 
> i find that these dogs are more of a compound gaurd and probably a good ppd but there is just to many quirks(dog aggresion,just dont really want to work and get tired easily) that i will not be going back for more.i think the breed is gone to the show people and lacks good consistent working drive and stamina.


Thank you for your input... From always hearing from "Rott People" how great Rotts are in ring sports and PPD, its suprising to hear that there arent very many dogs that excel in this anymore!



Keith Jenkins said:


> I'm sure you're a fine upstanding young man Gregory but my suggestion is to move to safer a neighborhood and have stronger locks installed.
> 
> If you insist on a PPD by all means take the advice given and go with a different breed. As a Rottweiler owner for over 20 years last thing we need is another 20 year old looking for a "bas ass" dog.


Im not looking for a "bad assdog" I want to learn the sport and understand it.... Working with dogs wasnt something Iwoke up one morning and decided... I fell in love with them and started learning about them... Over the past two years I have come to realize that this is my passion and what I want to do while Im still alive and kickin... My age should not matter in the slightest.. that is just a passing judgement, because despite my age I feel I have a lot (not training experience) that I can contribute..



Sheena Tarrant said:


> Gregory, you've certainly been taking a beating on the board since getting here. I think a lot of the knee jerk reaction you received was because you came on a working dog board and posted pictures of your Bullies and stated how athletic they are. I suppose the assumption was that you thought your Bullies were athletic for dogs in general rather than athletic for Bullies, and you were posting them on this board thinking they were suited for working dog purposes, and then you started a thread asking for people's opinions on them. It would be a bit like me starting a thread on this board about my (husband's ) French Bulldog and getting irritated when people said she wasn't suited for work, even though she's very athletic... for a Frenchie. You seemed to be coming on and stating how great your dogs are, and due to the nature of the board, people assumed you meant how great they are for work (which, as you know, isn't going to be the case with that breed).
> 
> I think you have to decide what you want - if you want a breed because you like working with that breed (even with all its characteristics and traits and flaws), then get that breed, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it is going to be a top-drawer worker. If you want to get involved in one of the protection sports for the love of the sport, then get a breed ideally suited for that, which is not going to be anything involving 'bull' in the name, or a mastiff type, or a Rottweiler.
> 
> Good luck in your search for information. You might want to try reading some of the old posts on this board, and use the search function to look for info. There is a lot of knowledge on here, and if you read carefully you can start to figure out which posters actually know what they're talking about and which posters just talk for the sake of it.


Thank you very much... Im just trying to get over the whole fact LOL...



chris haynie said:


> after spending alot of time researching and meeting many working malinois i fostered a french working line mal for a guy i used to work with. he had just taken a job overseas and needed somewhere for the dog to stay until his parents could get down here from NW oregon to pick her up. i found she drove me nuts, with the always "on" status.
> 
> i began last month expanding my working dog search to include other breeds that tend to do well in Schutzhund.
> 
> I have been looking into working line GSDs and just very recently been trying to find out about good solid working line rotties. still need to meet some and talk to more people to see if they might be more compatible with my personality than a Mal, but i think for me they might be worth considering.
> 
> i have read alot about, and heard from people who know the working line rotties, that the
> 
> schwaiger wappen and schwaiger rathaus dogs are fairly consistent producers of good Schutzhund sport dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> also there is a guy on here named Andy Larimore who has an actual working rottie police dog named ivan_. _


 
Right on! I appreciate your input


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## Keith Jenkins

First it was I need a PPD to keep my family safe now it's about sport. Pick something and at least stick with it long enough for the thread to die down.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Gregory, instead of going and finding a breeder right away and being stuck with something that sounds appealing but may not be the best family dog, may I suggest fostering a couple Malinois or Dutch shepherds or Rottweilers so you know what you're getting into? 

One of my Mals is a drivey little "failed foster" female from American Belgian Malinois Club rescue and she ended up being a certified therapy dog. My husband is also going to start working her in herding. She could likely do agility or bite work if it wasn't for the nerve damage in her neck called FCE which gives her a noticeable but not painful limp. Many of these guys (the Mals and Dutchies in particular) end up in rescue because people have no idea of their drive and what it takes to make them good house pets (A LOT of exercise and boundaries). They can make excellent active pets or performance dogs. And you can learn a lot from rescue dogs by how they can challenge you as a trainer. Malinois rescue in particular is begging for foster homes (there's a Malinois in California waiting for a foster home and two Dutchie pups in California for adoption). Give these a try:

http://www.malinoisrescue.org/foster/
http://dutchshepherdrescue.org/NADSRdogs.html

Plus if you really like one of your foster dogs, you usually get first dibs on adoptions if they work out well for you. Our female Mal from rescue is fabulous.


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## chris haynie

i think what maren said it is right on. i met a ton of mals, saw a bunch of them work and visited with a bunch of them at homes of breeders when they were not working. i thought they were cool and liked many things about them. i am very active myself and knew that i would like giving them a ton of exercise everyday...then i lived with one at my house for 16 days. i never saw her sleeping, ever. she was pretty much always moving unless i had her in a position on command, and never really chilled out and relaxed enough for me even after a lot of physical and mental exercise. it was enough to make me realize id prefer to start Sch training with dog that had a distinct "off mode". i am looking at other breeds for my first working dog. after a couple dogs with SCH titles on them i'll porbably still get a mal/dutchie, but for me now i have found i'd prefer another breed.


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## Gregory Escolta

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Gregory, instead of going and finding a breeder right away and being stuck with something that sounds appealing but may not be the best family dog, may I suggest fostering a couple Malinois or Dutch shepherds or Rottweilers so you know what you're getting into?
> 
> One of my Mals is a drivey little "failed foster" female from American Belgian Malinois Club rescue and she ended up being a certified therapy dog. My husband is also going to start working her in herding. She could likely do agility or bite work if it wasn't for the nerve damage in her neck called FCE which gives her a noticeable but not painful limp. Many of these guys (the Mals and Dutchies in particular) end up in rescue because people have no idea of their drive and what it takes to make them good house pets (A LOT of exercise and boundaries). They can make excellent active pets or performance dogs. And you can learn a lot from rescue dogs by how they can challenge you as a trainer. Malinois rescue in particular is begging for foster homes (there's a Malinois in California waiting for a foster home and two Dutchie pups in California for adoption). Give these a try:
> 
> http://www.malinoisrescue.org/foster/
> http://dutchshepherdrescue.org/NADSRdogs.html
> 
> Plus if you really like one of your foster dogs, you usually get first dibs on adoptions if they work out well for you. Our female Mal from rescue is fabulous.


 
Thanks for the links! Im not looking to jump right in... I was simply lookin for breeders so I can delineate what they all provide... Im trying to take baby steps


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## Gregory Escolta

chris haynie said:


> i think what maren said it is right on. i met a ton of mals, saw a bunch of them work and visited with a bunch of them at homes of breeders when they were not working. i thought they were cool and liked many things about them. i am very active myself and knew that i would like giving them a ton of exercise everyday...then i lived with one at my house for 16 days. i never saw her sleeping, ever. she was pretty much always moving unless i had her in a position on command, and never really chilled out and relaxed enough for me even after a lot of physical and mental exercise. it was enough to make me realize id prefer to start Sch training with dog that had a distinct "off mode". i am looking at other breeds for my first working dog. after a couple dogs with SCH titles on them i'll porbably still get a mal/dutchie, but for me now i have found i'd prefer another breed.


 
Right on! Good stuff to know... I am pretty active, and will be able to provide an active lifestyle, but I'd like to relax too! LOL


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## Maren Bell Jones

Gregory Escolta said:


> Thanks for the links! Im not looking to jump right in... I was simply lookin for breeders so I can delineate what they all provide... Im trying to take baby steps


That's the good thing about fostering dogs is that you are not obligated to keep the dog if it's not working out but you're still improving the dog for adoption by putting some training on it as well as improving your own skills as a trainer. You won't learn much with a dog who makes any idiot or klutz (like me, haha) look like a pro. Someone who can work a chow or basset hound or Afghan to a high level has more of my respect than with a can do it all Mal, GSD, lab, etc.


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## Gregory Escolta

Maren Bell Jones said:


> That's the good thing about fostering dogs is that you are not obligated to keep the dog if it's not working out but you're still improving the dog for adoption by putting some training on it as well as improving your own skills as a trainer. You won't learn much with a dog who makes any idiot or klutz (like me, haha) look like a pro. Someone who can work a chow or basset hound or Afghan to a high level has more of my respect than with a can do it all Mal, GSD, lab, etc.


 
I used to work @ a boarding facility, and I loved working with the more "troubled"dogs! On a few occasions the pet parents would come back and ask why hes behaving better LOL! Theres a big sense of gratification for me in that


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## Amy Swaby

A lot of people won't understand a love for type over a love for sport. For me I love rottweilers, I don't care about the best dog for sport. i really couldn't give a rat's backside I love MY breed I want to see my breed succeed to the best of it's abilities. No I may not get the highest score at the trial but can rottweilers do it? Obviously as there are rottweilers doing it. 

Some people want the best dog for the sport. Some want to sport but they want to use a dog that can do the work but it takes more work. Some people will never understand why, it's as simple as that.


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## Kevin Barrett

Well said Amy, thats the type of devotion that can improve the breed rather than passing it by to where people that have no need having that kind of dog starts breeding them. There are great rotts in sports, they may not by as fast as a dutchie, mal or shepard. But its about improving the breed. To each their own I guess. JMO


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## Meng Xiong

Amy Swaby said:


> A lot of people won't understand a love for type over a love for sport. For me I love rottweilers, I don't care about the best dog for sport. i really couldn't give a rat's backside I love MY breed I want to see my breed succeed to the best of it's abilities. No I may not get the highest score at the trial but can rottweilers do it? Obviously as there are rottweilers doing it.
> 
> Some people want the best dog for the sport. Some want to sport but they want to use a dog that can do the work but it takes more work. Some people will never understand why, it's as simple as that.


I think you bring up a good point about the points (no pun). When i first started learning about Schutzhund I thought it was all about the points, and later after spending lots more time on the field, I came to the conclusion that in the type of dog I like, points don't mean everything. Since ive joined the local Schutzhund club ive really grown to like a dog who is real strong.


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## Andy Larrimore

I understand that you are looking for a PPD that will be strong enough for the work yet suitable with the family. It does not matter if you are dealing with a Rottie , GSD or any other breed, training is the key. Without proper training even the most suitable dog can become unsuitable. I would recommend finding a good dog and a good strong training group. 

I have bred to the Jeneks line and got some nice pups but they certainly were not the best pups I have produced. I like dogs strong in the Schwaiger Wappen lines and I like dogs out of Akino Von Der Lauterbrucke. These dogs look nice and are very strong in defense. They are real workers and not "made" dogs. 

If your truly interested in the Rottweiler, do your homework and research the lines. You will be pleased with what you find. :-D


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## Gregory Escolta

Andy Larrimore said:


> I understand that you are looking for a PPD that will be strong enough for the work yet suitable with the family. It does not matter if you are dealing with a Rottie , GSD or any other breed, training is the key. Without proper training even the most suitable dog can become unsuitable. I would recommend finding a good dog and a good strong training group.
> 
> I have bred to the Jeneks line and got some nice pups but they certainly were not the best pups I have produced. I like dogs strong in the Schwaiger Wappen lines and I like dogs out of Akino Von Der Lauterbrucke. These dogs look nice and are very strong in defense. They are real workers and not "made" dogs.
> 
> If your truly interested in the Rottweiler, do your homework and research the lines. You will be pleased with what you find. :-D


 
Thank you very much! You have been very helpful and i will be looking into these lines!


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## Amy Swaby

Andy Larrimore said:


> If your truly interested in the Rottweiler, do your homework and research the lines. You will be pleased with what you find. :-D


-Winks- You know me I'm biased and love your Xena... no idea why :-\"


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## Martin Koops

The Aki and Arri lines are well known for producing good dogs.

Check out Ety vom Herrenholz, 7yoa and won the ADRK DM VPG championship 2009.


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## brad robert

Meng Xiong said:


> I don't own a Rott, yet, but the Rotts Ive seen work on our field in the last two years haven't shown any of the "quirks" that I keep hearing most people talk about. It really makes me curious. All the dogs ive seen are sociable although aloof, confident, no uncalled for dog aggression, great toy drive and plenty of fight... definately a versatile dog i'd like to own and work.


im sure there are good ones available and know the schwagger wappen lines are strong working lines for rottweilers and these lines are behind a lot of good dogs today but seriously nearly everyone i see has dog aggresion and the nutters for the ball or tug are few in between and man they just get tired easily.but the thread is about ppd and do agree they can make some good ones


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## Andy Larrimore

What you just described can be fixed with training and serious conditioning. I run and swim my dogs throughout the week.


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## Julia Norton VMD

If you are primarily looking for working(not show) a couple of kennels to check out include Chuck Wilson (vom waldbach) and Ron at von Aunkst. I believe that Wilson has been very successful in Sch and Ron has focused on bringing over more seriou lines(herrenholz). Redwwoodkrest has some nice dogs but has been moving more in the German showline direction but I'm sure he can find the right dog for someone if need be. He is not focusing on super serious lines because he doesn't want them all returned. There is also a kennel in Belgium that focuses on producing very serious dogs. However they are not for the faint of heart.


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## Keith Jenkins

Define successful?...Do you mean only competing in Rottweiler affirmative action events only or all breed competitions?

My good friend Ron still needs a boot in his ass for not finishing the titles on Junky and Quincy.

As for Redwood Crest what has Goedertier really produced that has set the world on fire since coming here 10 years ago? Maybe one dog that is close to that criteria. 

Exactly what dog that Verschatse produced has done anything here in the US?


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## Amy Swaby

Keith Jenkins said:


> Define successful?...Do you mean only competing in Rottweiler affirmative action events only or all breed competitions?
> 
> My good friend Ron still needs a boot in his ass for not finishing the titles on Junky and Quincy.
> 
> As for Redwood Crest what has Goedertier really produced that has set the world on fire since coming here 10 years ago? Maybe one dog that is close to that criteria.
> 
> Exactly what dog that Verschatse produced has done anything here in the US?


And I love Joeri he's a good guy but.. puppy price at Redwood KREST (K man K) starts at 3,000. As for dog aggressive and not ball crazy brad all of my dogs can function in close proximity with other dogs and as soon as work starts they could care less about another dog.

As for ball drive, parker drops so hard into a down for a ball you could probably use him as a jackhammer. I dunno I guess I'm lucky to have not run into all these dog aggressive rottweilers. Personally if DA was that bad in the breed I probably wouldn't own them, it's the only reason I don't have any APBT's as pets.

I probably wouldn't throw Gold in an open pen with a bunch of dog unsupervised but she has no problem working around dogs.

A photo of Gold from her breeder's website









And Parker and Kira


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## Maren Bell Jones

Amy Swaby said:


> . I dunno I guess I'm lucky to have not run into all these dog aggressive rottweilers. Personally if DA was that bad in the breed I probably wouldn't own them, it's the only reason I don't have any APBT's as pets.
> 
> I probably wouldn't throw Gold in an open pen with a bunch of dog unsupervised but she has no problem working around dogs.


Ditto. Broken up two fights (each involving a different female Rottweiler, one a foster, one of them mine) and it's a huge pain and potentially quite dangerous. Probably even more dangerous than breaking up a pit bull fight because they're genetically less inclined to redirect onto you. My showline female won't really start one and in general gets along well with other dogs (I use her as the neutral dog for mock CGC testing practice), but if there is a fight going on or even rough play fighting, she HAS to be involved. If we're out in public and a scuffle breaks out between two other, unrelated dogs (we don't go to dog parks, but I've seen it happen elsewhere) or if we happen to have a foster dog who is spoiling for a fight, the first thing I almost always have to do is grab Elsa before her 10 year old crippled butt will get herself hurt by trying to be the third man in the fight. :roll: I like the females in particular, but Rottie bitches can be stubborn as all get out. My ideal Rottweiler would be a female who is dog neutral in public, but neutral to friendly to the other dogs in the house.


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## brad robert

Andy Larrimore said:


> What you just described can be fixed with training and serious conditioning. I run and swim my dogs throughout the week.


am i reading you right ?fix it why would i want it there to start with let alone take the time to? life is to short to try and fixed screwed up dogs just get a decent one to start with.and amy you believe what you want and i think your lucky to have the nice dogs you do but seriously take of the rose coloured glasses the breed is DA


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## Keith Jenkins

I'd be willing to bet really good money that nobody could tell a dog was going to have dog aggression issues at 8 frigging weeks old. I got two Rottweilers that are toy crazy. The 71/2 year old is pretty neutral now around other dogs the 22 month old one is a social butterfly. Guess I got lucky also?:roll:


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## Jim Laubmeier

Working rottweilers

If your looking for a working rottweiler prospect it is most effective to research PROVEN working lines. The rottweiler has unfortunately fallen out of favor with the top Sch sport handlers in the last 10 yrs. The top working Rottweilers in the world are produced in Germany through the ADRK system. In Germany, all Rottweilers must possess a ZTP before breeding and at least one of the parents must have a VPG/IPO title.
Health, conformation, temperament and working ability are all tested for the ZTP.

The ultimate breeding title and top Rottweilers in Germany have passed the rigorous ADRK Korung which is held biannually. Recent ADRK Korung results can be found here: http://adrk.de/3_koerung20090913_herbstkoerung_eschweiler_e.htm

The top level ADRK breeding is a ‘Kor und Leistungzucht’ breeding meaning BOTH parents have passed the Korung. These are top level dogs and breedings.

Working temperament usually is genetic and the top working rottweiler lines have been Aki von der Peeler Hutte, Arri & Basko vom Hertener Wappen, Harras & Ken vom Sternbogen, Noris vom Gruntenblick to name a few.. These lines have been very successful on the working field and the Korungs.
The top working kennels are Vom Herrenholz, Vom Hause Anin, Vom Hause Neubrand, Vom Schwaiger Wappen, Vom Heidebaren, Vom Turnleberg to name a few..
The most recent ADRK Sch Nationals or Deutsche Meisterschaft results are here:
http://adrk.de/3_dtmeister20090926.htm



Here in the USA, the top working rottweiler event is the USRC Sch Nationals. Here are last years results: http://www.usrconline.org/archive/2009/09bwrc.pdf
I worked this event as the front-half helper and was able to see some nice dogs ups close.

Each FCI member country or affiliate can send their top working rottweiler teams to the IFR World Championships. Results from last yrs event: http://www.ifr2009.cz/

Very simply, in all working breeds including Rottweilers, success & quality produce the same. Look at PROVEN working dogs especially females as many look only at a big name stud dog and expect the litter to be super. If bred to a weak, unproven female, the results are usually very disappointing.. Top females are the key and when bred to a strong compatible male can usually produce a nice litter of strong working puppy prospects.. 
My 1st male, Bronko vom Wachberg was found by researching the ADRK Korung and finding a super female, Wendy vom Wachberg. She had a super Korung performance and when I inquired about a future breeding found out she was 5 weeks pregnant at her Korung! 

The ADRK stud dog, Ety vom Herrenholz has been mentioned. He is a super working male and recently won the ADRK DM at 7 ½ years old. He is the total rottweiler IMO.
He is HD/ED Frei, an ADRK & VDH Conformation Champion and also has passed the Lifetime Korung and is Gekort bis Eza. He is owned by my good friends, Klaus & Helga in Germany where I have worked him many times. I own a very strong female out of Ety named Vaika vom Herrenholz.


I have been disappointed in the past with USA bred dogs and chose a few yrs ago to educate myself on the ADRK system. My dogs are all ADRK working line dogs out of Korung titled parents and I have been happy with the results.

Good luck with your research!

Jim Laubmeier
www.firehouserotts.com


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## Gregory Escolta

Jim Laubmeier said:


> Working rottweilers
> 
> If your looking for a working rottweiler prospect it is most effective to research PROVEN working lines. The rottweiler has unfortunately fallen out of favor with the top Sch sport handlers in the last 10 yrs. The top working Rottweilers in the world are produced in Germany through the ADRK system. In Germany, all Rottweilers must possess a ZTP before breeding and at least one of the parents must have a VPG/IPO title.
> Health, conformation, temperament and working ability are all tested for the ZTP.
> 
> The ultimate breeding title and top Rottweilers in Germany have passed the rigorous ADRK Korung which is held biannually. Recent ADRK Korung results can be found here: http://adrk.de/3_koerung20090913_herbstkoerung_eschweiler_e.htm
> 
> The top level ADRK breeding is a ‘Kor und Leistungzucht’ breeding meaning BOTH parents have passed the Korung. These are top level dogs and breedings.
> 
> Working temperament usually is genetic and the top working rottweiler lines have been Aki von der Peeler Hutte, Arri & Basko vom Hertener Wappen, Harras & Ken vom Sternbogen, Noris vom Gruntenblick to name a few.. These lines have been very successful on the working field and the Korungs.
> The top working kennels are Vom Herrenholz, Vom Hause Anin, Vom Hause Neubrand, Vom Schwaiger Wappen, Vom Heidebaren, Vom Turnleberg to name a few..
> The most recent ADRK Sch Nationals or Deutsche Meisterschaft results are here:
> http://adrk.de/3_dtmeister20090926.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Here in the USA, the top working rottweiler event is the USRC Sch Nationals. Here are last years results: http://www.usrconline.org/archive/2009/09bwrc.pdf
> I worked this event as the front-half helper and was able to see some nice dogs ups close.
> 
> Each FCI member country or affiliate can send their top working rottweiler teams to the IFR World Championships. Results from last yrs event: http://www.ifr2009.cz/
> 
> Very simply, in all working breeds including Rottweilers, success & quality produce the same. Look at PROVEN working dogs especially females as many look only at a big name stud dog and expect the litter to be super. If bred to a weak, unproven female, the results are usually very disappointing.. Top females are the key and when bred to a strong compatible male can usually produce a nice litter of strong working puppy prospects..
> My 1st male, Bronko vom Wachberg was found by researching the ADRK Korung and finding a super female, Wendy vom Wachberg. She had a super Korung performance and when I inquired about a future breeding found out she was 5 weeks pregnant at her Korung!
> 
> The ADRK stud dog, Ety vom Herrenholz has been mentioned. He is a super working male and recently won the ADRK DM at 7 ½ years old. He is the total rottweiler IMO.
> He is HD/ED Frei, an ADRK & VDH Conformation Champion and also has passed the Lifetime Korung and is Gekort bis Eza. He is owned by my good friends, Klaus & Helga in Germany where I have worked him many times. I own a very strong female out of Ety named Vaika vom Herrenholz.
> 
> 
> I have been disappointed in the past with USA bred dogs and chose a few yrs ago to educate myself on the ADRK system. My dogs are all ADRK working line dogs out of Korung titled parents and I have been happy with the results.
> 
> Good luck with your research!
> 
> Jim Laubmeier
> www.firehouserotts.com


 
JIM! Thank you so much! exactly what I was lookingfor!


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## Amy Swaby

brad robert said:


> am i reading you right ?fix it why would i want it there to start with let alone take the time to? life is to short to try and fixed screwed up dogs just get a decent one to start with.and amy you believe what you want and i think your lucky to have the nice dogs you do but seriously take of the rose coloured glasses the breed is DA


Lol okay I guess all of us people here who actually own rottweilers and have no DA dogs are all wearing rose coloured glasses. I have SIX rottweilers currently it used to be seven before my girl Nova passed. They almost all come from different sources except for the ones i got from Joeri. The two I got from Joeri, one was too much for it previous owner and one Joeri took back because the man had been abusing the dog. The others come from Serbia, Hungary what have you.

None of these dogs are DA, amazing that. I've been lucky over nine times and not even from just one source. :lol: Damn lucky me I guess, not counting the rottweilers belonging to family and friends, other breeders I know. Hell that's a damn lot of lucky people. That's a good hundred plus dogs we miraculously all got lucky with. Somehow all of our dogs have the amazing ability to not care when working around other dogs. I'll remind everyone to keep wearing the green and keep a rabbit's foot hanging from the dog's collar.


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## Martin Koops

Hi Jim,
Like the Herrenholz dogs very much, Congrats with Vaika.


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## steve davis

Chris Michalek said:


> I have one. Trained. Perfect temperment, works like a shepherd and is an executive level protection dog. $50,000


 
:^o:lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg

I had 2 Rott's before these 2 Dutchies. The female Rott was so DA I finally PTS. The other was a male who was not DA in any way. He lived until he was 13 years old and I still miss him and think about him all the time.

Compared to these Dutchies HE COULD RELAX without a thousand hours of daily exercise. There are times I yearn for that once in a while.\\/


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## David Frost

I have a Rottie, single purpose drug dog. He can be seen at http://www.gapdogs.org/ if you visit that website, click on the link that says Gap dogs at work. His name is Rock. He would work as a patrol dog, but I only trained him in drugs.

DFrost


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## Candy Eggert

David Frost said:


> I have a Rottie, single purpose drug dog. He can be seen at http://www.gapdogs.org/ if you visit that website, click on the link that says Gap dogs at work. His name is Rock. He would work as a patrol dog, but I only trained him in drugs.
> 
> DFrost


What a wonderful organization David :smile: Great to save shelter dogs and give them a meaningful job. Does GAP train the dogs or just donate them to departments?

I know in Texas of another great organization, called the Laredo K9 Job Corp that takes at risk youth, teaches them to care for and train up service dogs (donations and rescues) and then donates them around the country to law enforcement agencies. It's a win-win for the kids and the dogs!

It makes you smile :smile:


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## David Frost

They are able to train the dogs. I think they have for some departments. I like to get mine green. I've made three trips to DFW area and have brought back 11 dogs total. All but one of them worked out. We placed the one that didn't work out in a pretty darn good home. They are a good bunch of folks that run GAP. 

DFrost


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## Candy Eggert

David Frost said:


> They are able to train the dogs. I think they have for some departments. I like to get mine green. I've made three trips to DFW area and have brought back 11 dogs total. All but one of them worked out. We placed the one that didn't work out in a pretty darn good home. They are a good bunch of folks that run GAP.
> 
> DFrost


Green dogs/green handlers :mrgreen: I'm glad to see that all of those dogs are in service and serving. I'd say your picks were pretty darn good with those numbers.

Too bad there are not more qualified organizations like GAP in more States. Good on 'em


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## brad robert

amy you crack me up.a hundred or hundreds of rotts and no dog aggression i call bullshit!!!nice to see there is still some nice breedings going on though thanks jim


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## Andy Larrimore

Brad,
The dog aggression can be high in certain breeds but with training you can prevent it before it becomes a problem most of the time. We often times see behavior problems with dogs of all breeds but, when you look at how much true training experience the owner has it usually says it all. Owners of dogs too many times get dogs based on its looks and have no idea of its history or what its temprament will be and the dog turns out later to be too much for them. 

I often get calls from people who own dogs that are 2-3 years old that have behavior issues. When I ask them where they have been for training so far they answer "no where" or "I have owned dogs before". When I ask them if they are a trainer they say "no". So now we have dogs that have serious issues but you really can not blame the dog or the breed.


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## Ian Forbes

brad robert said:


> am i reading you right ?fix it why would i want it there to start with let alone take the time to? life is to short to try and fixed screwed up dogs just get a decent one to start with.and amy you believe what you want and i think your lucky to have the nice dogs you do but seriously take of the rose coloured glasses *the breed is DA*


Maybe you need to state that your experience is not universal. I've seen a lot of working Rottweilers in Europe and whilst there are some that are DA, there are far more that are not.

DA is a pain whatever breed you are in (unless you're a dog fighter), and most breeders in Europe are not looking to put up with it.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Probably also depends on your definition of dog aggressive and whether you mean dog aggressive to house mates and/or to strange dogs. If you can work your dog or just have your dog in a sit stay or down stay within a meter or two without them being reactive, that's not really dog aggressive, or if it is, that's a little something more you can work with, especially if you only have the one dog at home. I more think of the dog straining, barking, growling, and pulling their owner down the street to fight a relatively neutral dog that's 5-10 meters away with no provocation or regard to correction or reward a level of dog aggression I just would not care to deal with. With counter conditioning and desensitization in working with flight distance, I think you can work with that sort of dog as well, but you're always going to have to be very vigilant in case a loose dog breaks and makes a bee line for your dog or something. I personally prefer my dogs neutral to friendly with strange dogs and neutral/highly tolerant to friendly with housemates at home. Haven't always gotten that...


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## Amy Swaby

brad robert said:


> amy you crack me up.a hundred or hundreds of rotts and no dog aggression i call bullshit!!!nice to see there is still some nice breedings going on though thanks jim


So you call bullshit on me saying I have never EVER run into a rottweiler that was DA to the point that they can not work around other dogs but it's not bullshit that you say rottweilers as a breed are DA to the point that they can't work around other dogs and they all have shit ball drive because that's what you've seen in a small pool from what you've seen at your club and the bitch you raised being dominant, not kid friendly and DA.

...You do see the circular logic here right? 

And Maren he specifically said

"these dogs have me absolutly dumb founded i am in a club here and find a couple of dogs in the whole bunch have any prey drive aimed at toys all there drive is aimed at killing each other i hope you dont get attacked by someone with another dog cause your dog will be to bothered by it to help you."

So I mean he's insinuating some intense DA here across the entire breed, again to the point where if someone attacked you they'd pay attention to another dog before protecting you. :-k

Glad I don't have those crapper dogs.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Amy Swaby said:


> So you call bullshit on me saying I have never EVER run into a rottweiler that was DA to the point that they can not work around other dogs but it's not bullshit that you say rottweilers as a breed are DA to the point that they can't work around other dogs and they all have shit ball drive because that's what you've seen in a small pool from what you've seen at your club and the bitch you raised being dominant, not kid friendly and DA.
> 
> ...You do see the circular logic here right?
> 
> And Maren he specifically said
> 
> "these dogs have me absolutly dumb founded i am in a club here and find a couple of dogs in the whole bunch have any prey drive aimed at toys all there drive is aimed at killing each other i hope you dont get attacked by someone with another dog cause your dog will be to bothered by it to help you."
> 
> So I mean he's insinuating some intense DA here across the entire breed, again to the point where if someone attacked you they'd pay attention to another dog before protecting you. :-k
> 
> Glad I don't have those crapper dogs.


Interestingly, I don't think it's a Rottweiler exclusive thing at all. I have to pretty careful of Fawkes my Malinois around other strange dogs because if they run up to me in friendly but rude way and try to jump on me, he literally thinks they are trying to attack me and will go absolutely ballistic in trying to attack them (he's succeeded once with a foster dog of mine who didn't know better, leading to some nasty puncture wounds on top of the dog's head and neck). He is pretty dominant in a tolerant sort of way with other dogs, but I typically have him on a Jafco muzzle off leash just in case around other strange dogs. Elsa my Rottweiler doesn't really care if another dog runs up to me. Then again, if a person was trying to attack me but who happened to have a dog, I really am not sure what he'd do precisely as I haven't done any PPD scenarios or whatever with him. I don't know which threat he'd go towards first (if any).


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## Anna Kasho

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I more think of the dog straining, barking, growling, and pulling their owner down the street to fight a relatively neutral dog that's 5-10 meters away with no provocation or regard to correction or reward a level of dog aggression I just would not care to deal with.


This is probably the average person's idea of dog aggression, and where I ran into problems. My DA dogs are/were trained to behave themselves and not react (though they did have a critical distance after which, it was ON), so people would assume they were "nice" and then act all hurt when I wouldn't let their doggie meet and greet with mine. I got many blank looks and total denial a lot of times I told people my dog is aggressive... "But she's just standing there so calm with her tail wagging, she can't possibly be!"


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## Maren Bell Jones

I know exactly what you mean, Anne. In the therapy dog class I teach, I have to really emphasize to people that this is not puppy kindergarten and we're not going to be letting our dogs sniff the other dogs, even if they are extremely friendly, as that will not pass the CGC or TDI for the neutral dog test. It may sound silly to the people in the class, but I actually have people practice saying, "please don't let your dog sniff mine" in a polite but firm way so when they are out in public, they don't feel as bashful. One of my dogs that now lives with my in laws (a Aussie/ACD/something else mix) got along really well with my husky/Rottweiler mix. They totally ignored each other and did lookaways all the time. Never, ever an incident between the two. Some may say that because they didn't ever really play together but were just kind of peacefully ignoring each other in the same room that they didn't get along. Absolutely not so. In some ways, I kind of prefer that.


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## brad robert

amy look im not a complete tosser and know there is a lot of sound rottweilers out there that do not want to fight or kill everything in sight i recognise that.but of the ones that dont want to go for everything or DA then you sort through those that have sufficient drive to work i think the number is considerable smaller then other working breeds and most people recognize that.now as ppd dog i think alot of rotts will do but for a high end one that is controllable around the family and also could do some sport the numbers drop dramatically.

In australia we have some absolutely awesome bred rottweilers from the best lines and many good workers and many DA ones as well so i would not call them all crappers.I am just honestly not liking what i am seeing in the breed going this way with the DA.


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## Gregory Escolta

Can anyone tell me about the Earl Antonius line?


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## Keith Jenkins

Gregory Escolta said:


> Can anyone tell me about the Earl Antonius line?


The name shoud not be used in the same sentence as working Rottweiler.


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## Amy Swaby

Gregory Escolta said:


> Can anyone tell me about the Earl Antonius line?


Yeah no these are show dogs that how more drive than other show dogs but they are still show dogs. Gonzzo has got to be one of the most overbred rottweiler studs, that and though he's supposedly clear of HD he seems to produce a LOT of pups with dysplasia.

ETA: Though who knows this could always be because of the sheer AMOUNT of pups he produced.


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## Gregory Escolta

Keith Jenkins said:


> The name shoud not be used in the same sentence as working Rottweiler.


 Thanks... I figured, never trust a breeders word on a whim... I talked to a kennel who will remain nameless that claimed his dogs are sold to the FBI, CIA, Military and Police forces around the US and his dogs are all off Earl Antonius lines...



Amy Swaby said:


> Yeah no these are show dogs that how more drive than other show dogs but they are still show dogs. Gonzzo has got to be one of the most overbred rottweiler studs, that and though he's supposedly clear of HD he seems to produce a LOT of pups with dysplasia.
> 
> ETA: Though who knows this could always be because of the sheer AMOUNT of pups he produced.


 
What would u suggest... Some say Jenecks, but then others say they havent produced anything of quality in a long time... I have looked @ others and found some nice ones, jus trying to hear more opinions


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## Amy Swaby

If you look through the thread i think Keith listed a few good places.


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## Chris Michalek

screw the OP. I already gave him a list of where exactly to get a strong working rottie. Jim Laubmeier chimed in with an excellent list as did Keith Jenkins. 

If he doesn't want that advice then let him figure it out on his own.






Amy Swaby said:


> If you look through the thread i think Keith listed a few good places.


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## Gregory Escolta

Chris Michalek said:


> screw the OP. I already gave him a list of where exactly to get a strong working rottie. Jim Laubmeier chimed in with an excellent list as did Keith Jenkins.
> 
> If he doesn't want that advice then let him figure it out on his own.


 
I took all that advise and thus far the favorite that I have seen are the Neubrand dogs... But I know there are more than that... U rele need to relax


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## Gregory Escolta

Amy Swaby said:


> If you look through the thread i think Keith listed a few good places.


 
He gave me a bunch of good advise.. trying to see if someone else wanted to chime in and add to the list...


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