# Thoughts on this pedigree



## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

What do you guys think about this:


http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=702139

I club member has a dog from the same breeding and it's a very nice male. I know nothing about GSD ped's and was hoping some one could give me some thoughts on this one.


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## Derek Milliken (Apr 19, 2009)

I don't read a lot of GSD pedigrees anymore. When it started off at the top with Tom I thought it was starting nice. Looks to be about 2/3 showdogs though.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Thats kind of what I thought. The dog is very nice though. Crazy drive and good nerves. Only 16 months old so I'm excited to see how he matures.


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## Courtney DuCharme (Feb 5, 2011)

I see 14 dogs on the pedigree...... 11 of which are titled at SchH 3, 4 of those have other working titles.... and the 3 non SchH 3 dogs are all SchH 1. 
I see the show ratings too. But I see enough working titles that I think if the dog is drivey & has great nerves..... it IS in those lines.

Aside from that- Shepherds aren't my thing. I don't know lines at all  If is was a Dobie or a Boxer pedigree- I would be on it like white on rice


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Courtney DuCharme said:


> If is was a Dobie or a Boxer pedigree- I would be on it like white on rice


Which is why many Dobes and just about all Boxers aren't any good for work. Because you often or almost always have to settle for a liberal helping of showlines. There's working dogs that just happen to be shown and then there's show dogs that just happen to have working sport titles. Subtle but important difference in the GSDs, but you can usually tell from their structure.


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## Courtney DuCharme (Feb 5, 2011)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Which is why many Dobes and just about all Boxers aren't any good for work. Because you often or almost always have to settle for a liberal helping of showlines. There's working dogs that just happen to be shown and then there's show dogs that just happen to have working sport titles. Subtle but important difference in the GSDs, but you can usually tell from their structure.


 
I'm not trying to start an uproar- just trying to understand. If you found a pup/ young adult with this one's line that had the working abilities you were looking for- would you not bother because of it's show lines, or pick it because it had the traits you were looking for? I understand if down the line you were planning to breed that you may shy away- but just for a "working" dog in general?


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

It looks like somebody tried to mix a working line pedigree with a pure showline pedigree. It's a 50-50 mix.

Mother side is all showline dogs. Can they work? I dunno, I don't know nothing about showlines, except to recognize them when I see them.

If the mother side was as good as the father's side (which IS very good), I'd say - great pedigree.


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## Derek Milliken (Apr 19, 2009)

Exactly,
I hope Ben is right and the dog turns out great. I'd just wonder what's going to happen as it matures, can it handle pressure, can it handle the workload of training every day?
I know next to nothing about showline kennels, but somewhere in the back of my mind I'm sure I've heard that Tronje dogs are basically unworkable, and that's back in the mother line.
Either way Ben, hope your club member is happy with the dog, and you too.
Do the best you can.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Which is why many Dobes and just about all Boxers aren't any good for work. Because you often or almost always have to settle for a liberal helping of showlines. There's working dogs that just happen to be shown and then there's show dogs that just happen to have working sport titles. Subtle but important difference in the GSDs, but you can usually tell from their structure.


Absolutely agree!

Top half is strong unfortunately it got mixed in with the show crap. Top half is know for producing very real aggression. Don't know if I would want to mix that with what I have seen on the bottom. I would stay away from it personally.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Molly Graf is on the board; why not ask her direct?


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Because I didn't know she was the breeder. Also I'm not looking for the breeder's justification. Just looking to learn some more about GSD pedigrees.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Ben Colbert said:


> Because I didn't know she was the breeder. Also I'm not looking for the breeder's justification. Just looking to learn some more about GSD pedigrees.


I thought she might be able to share her rationale for putting together for what she did.....what did she see in the showlines that encouraged her to use them etc. that is all......Tom V'landhoff (WL) there has been much discussion on him on GSD Euro........


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

Considering it's the typical german shepherd crap-shoot litter, there are no common lines here. Don't bank on the temperment being reproduced _reliably._

Showdogs with Schutzhund 3s? Are these the exceptions to the rule which EVERYONE COMPLAINS ABOUT? Are they not watered down gimme titles? Doubtful. A watered down version of a watered down venue to boot. Like the kool-aid my mom used to make with 1/4 of the sugar. Ack!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Courtney DuCharme said:


> I'm not trying to start an uproar- just trying to understand. If you found a pup/ young adult with this one's line that had the working abilities you were looking for- would you not bother because of it's show lines, or pick it because it had the traits you were looking for? I understand if down the line you were planning to breed that you may shy away- but just for a "working" dog in general?


I only am in the market for a pup maybe every 6-8 years because I like devoting the majority of my attention to one dog at a time for working sport/performance prospects (different story with pet dogs). Although I understand some people don't mind trying out half a dozen plus pups/young dogs and washing them before they find one they keep, it's not really my style. So I don't want to waste time or money on what may or may not work, or I'd just go with a rescue or something. At least with a rescue, you can see the dog as an adult and make a decision. 

So to answer your question, if there was a similar Malinois pedigree with mostly show and an occasional working dog in the ped, I would absolutely not waste my money if I were buying a pup from a breeder and I was looking for a serious training prospect. If I was looking for a rescue/rehoming situation to dink around with and if the time invested is no big deal, then that's fine and I've got two adult rescues that do some working sport (my Mal rescue does a little PSA, herds with my husband, and was a certified therapy dog, my Rottie rescue herds with me a little and is a certified therapy dog). But not if I'm going to put down $1000+ on a pup. If you're only getting a pup every 6-8 years and don't want to be having second thoughts when the pup is a dud, you get the very best pup you can afford at that time. JMHO.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

No idea why they did the mix but i dont think there is any need for showlines in a working GSD programme. Not that they won't produce some good dogs but with the state of the GSD i think its best to avoid them altogether. Occassionally you get dogs like Lubeck that have show lines in their peds but still do well.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

I've been informed that this is not the correct ped for my buddy's dog. Because of a misunderstanding I was under the impression that Bandit had been bred to Gobi. Apparently Simon's dog is Bandit x Gabi...

Nevertheless this ped posted is an actual breeding so all points made stand.

This is the actual ped of the dog I know:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=626662


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