# Training to back away



## David Berraco (Dec 19, 2007)

This is the scenario. I'm in the kitchen and the dog is being pushy interested in the food that I'm preparing. I give an "out" command so he backs off a couple of steps but is still underfoot. I want him a certain radius away from me and what I'm doing.

I don't want to use a "place" command for this situation so he will have a specific place to go to as I still want him to be free, just a few feet away from me to the point I feel that he's resigned and no longer pushy.

Should this command be trained as specific to that particular situation, the kitchen with an imaginary boundary which constitutes being "out of the kitchen" or can it become a general command applicable in other situations? Such as when I'm playing with the child and I want the dog to keep away.

How would you train it?

What command (choice of words) would you use for this?

How much pressure do you feel training this command puts on the dog compared to training a place command?

BTW this is for high drive excitable dog (95lb) that requires medium to strong corrections, 2 years old with practically no previous leash handling.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

So do you mean that you want an area around you free of dog, or that you want the dog to go to a specific place, even if he does not have be down?


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## David Berraco (Dec 19, 2007)

Connie,
I want an area around me free of the dog, around 10 feet.

With regards to the down, although I know you were talking about the down in conjunction with the place command. Curiously I felt that the dog understood the exercise best when he'd lay down on his own outside the 10ft radius. I've had limited success with it. I insisted on the distance but I did not insist on the down, he lay down on his own.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

It's such a fine line when you think about it, you want a working dog to be a bit pushy in the work and you don't want to extinguish that; what I do (and this is just my personal thing) is I have two sets of commands for everything; we have our obedience commands and our "maners" commands for around the house. I usuallly use the command "All done" when I want to ignore the dog, this way we can differentiate between we are just hanging out around the house and I am going to ignore you and we are going to work. When I am just hanging out and I don't want a dog underfoot, first I will try and give them something to do - I'll give me female a marrow bone or something to chew on and let her go lie down where she will. If she keeps being a pest and wants me to either play with the bone with her despite me telling her "all done" or "go lie down" continues to bother I will take the bone and go put her in a different room. It seriously only took a few repetitions of me telling her "all done" and ignoring her; then her being a pest resulting in me calmly putting her in another room for a while; for her to understand "all done" means she should find something else to do. It's like a little "on/off" switch, at any time I can reengage her to play but unless I start things, she knows we're just hanging out. I like doing it this way because it's pretty nonconfrontational, there isn't a lot of pressure and you don't have to worry about it conflicting with anything you do on the field. 

I hope this helps, and if not, thanks for letting me ramble a bit ;-)


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

I just open my BIG mouth and order them to GO AWAY! They understand perfectly. It didn't happen overnight but it did happen. No formal traning on this one.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

though it wasn't "formal" training it was deffinately something I had to work at...Aridan (my female) was constantly wanting me to do something with her and Fenris (my resident pet dog) would bring you every toy he could find until someone did something with him, before you knew it you'd have a pile of kongs, a newspaper, stuffed toys, natural bones and anything else he could bring you for attention


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## David Berraco (Dec 19, 2007)

Lynsey Fuegner said:


> It's such a fine line when you think about it, you want a working dog to be a bit pushy in the work and you don't want to extinguish that


Lynsey, my main reason for posting the question was that being with me only a short time I don't want to damage my relationship with this dog but also the status quo is unacceptable. That sort of goes along with what you said about extinguishing drive or breaking down the dog. Reading your post I was reminded that the "back/keep away" or "go away" is all about extinguishing drive, the drive to be a pest in the kitchen


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I teach my dogs to back up away from me with both a hand signal and a verbal command. I start with making my hand motion while stepping towards the dog slowly entending one leg and leaning forward a bit, to put pressure on the dog to move (this I do face-on, either the dog is in a front sitting, or standing)- as soon as I see one of the hinds go back, I mark and reward(either treats or a toy), then play a moment, bring the dog back closer to me, and again repeat with moving towards the dog and wait for some backwards movement, mark and reward. Progressing from one foot to two, to a full step backwards to several steps backwards, the further the dog goes and faster the more play/bigger reward it gets. 

After the dog understands the "Go" or "Back" and hand motion I add a sit or down into the mix - once the dog reaches a certain distance (which I vary) I ask for sit or down, and reward, and then gradually increase the time of the sit or down after the go. For all of this I go to the dog to give the reward, I don't have the dog come back to me for the reward so as not to create a dog that backs up really fast and then immediately runs back to you for its reward.

Hope this helps


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

David Berraco said:


> Reading your post I was reminded that the "back/keep away" or "go away" is all about extinguishing drive, the drive to be a pest in the kitchen


I know what you mean, but what I've noticed, when you don't make a huge issue out of it it's not so much as extinguishing the drive as it is teaching the dog to sort of "bottle" it up...my personal experience is that, after my female figured out what I meant when I told her we were done and to go lie down, at any time I could get her attention and reengage her and get her into drive. She's always ready to go, Ijust get go choose when and where we go.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I find that if your leadership is clear in the pack structure, a simple lip curl and stare do the trick more than any command in this situation.


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## David Berraco (Dec 19, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I find that if your leadership is clear in the pack structure, a simple lip curl and stare do the trick more than any command in this situation.


You mean you do a Billy Idol at your dog?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Complete it with a rebel yell and you should be good to go. :mrgreen:


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## David Berraco (Dec 19, 2007)

So what does one need to do to get banned from this joke forum?

Connie, you’re a freakin’ schitzo, I understand this usually happens after menopause.

Bob Scott, you’re a whiny girlie man.

David Frost, Tim Martens, you remind me of that scene in Men in black where J gets selected out of a group state produced automatons.

Mike Schoonbrood, did you start this forum? I guess you did it to learn something, keep going baby!

What all of you have in common that you know shit about dogs, yet you don’t let anyone’s voice but your own be heard.

To the silent majority.. you should speak up. These clowns are nobodies without the stage you provide for them.

BTW Berraco is the Cuban name for triggerfish, one that I like to hunt.

http://aycu30.webshots.com/image/39189/2001532974285302167_rs.jpg

Ciao sapingos.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

On page 154 of Koehler's Method of Dog Training, he espouses a frying pan to the snout for kitchen infractions.

I thought that was obvious.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

WOW! He figured us out! He DID learn something.
Whiney girly man?? Your just saying that cause some of the outfits I'm wearing in my pics make my butt look fat! I'm soooo embaressed!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Well I for one am really insulted for being left out, I even went to clown school.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Susan you were insulted. So was I. We were one of the case of thousands who silently agreed with him but would not speak up.    Didn't you know that?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Susan you were insulted. So was I. We were one of the case of thousands who silently agreed with him but would not speak up.    Didn't you know that?


Oh no. So now the thousands who silently agreed with him are empowered to speak up!? :lol:


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