# E-collar info



## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

I was wondering if anyone had valid sources for proper usage of e-collars.

Books?
DVD's?
online resources???

I am at the point that I feel my dog can benefit from using one, but I want to make sure I use it correctly. The last thing I would want is to create conflict where there is none.

Thanks.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I learned a lot from this DVD

http://leerburg.com/318.htm

I think the big thing is deciding which way you want to train with the remote collar. There are many methods out there now, some good, some okay and some not good at all.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Not a book, DVD or on-line instruction, but this would beat all of those hands down:
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f37/bart-bellon-seminar-us-14327/


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

What brand and on what dog?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Konnie Hein said:


> Not a book, DVD or on-line instruction, but this would beat all of those hands down:
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f37/bart-bellon-seminar-us-14327/


I second that advise! =D> Ecollars are great tools but you should learn how to use one from someone who is proficient themselves.


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## Jake Brandyberry (Jan 24, 2010)

I give it a day before Castle jumps on this one.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jake Brandyberry said:


> I give it a day before Castle jumps on this one.


4 hrs here....LOL:mrgreen:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I hope he does. The OP asked for advice. Whether one agrees or not isn't the issue, he does have advice and written instructions on his opinion of how to properly use an ecollar. 

DFrost


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Hey Kevin,
Tony would be a good place for you to start I think. If you can make it to the Bart Bellon seminar in VA Beach with Ron Davidson's group that would be the best place to learn from the best E collar man in the business.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

didn't we just do a big e-collar thread? I know I described how to properly use an e-collar and I know Lou Castle chimed in as well.

Search is your friend.


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Konnie Hein said:


> Not a book, DVD or on-line instruction, but this would beat all of those hands down:
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f37/bart-bellon-seminar-us-14327/






mike suttle said:


> Hey Kevin,
> Tony would be a good place for you to start I think. If you can make it to the Bart Bellon seminar in VA Beach with Ron Davidson's group that would be the best place to learn from the best E collar man in the business.



Thanks for the plug guys =D> We do e-collar training in my group and my business. I learned from Fred Hassen like alot of very good electric trainers in the country. Fred and Bart talk often and know each other pretty well. It's likely Fred will be at this seminar also from what he's told me. If you want to learn e-collar, between those two guys, this will be the place to be.


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

any opinions on these guys? 

www.loucastle.com

or

www.dobbsdogs.com

They both seem to have detailed info. I am curious about the modern relevance of that info.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I bought a Dobbs ecollar video many years ago . It was ok . I'm not big on videos or books . I like more hands on learning . They were also very helpful when I called with questions . Took time to answer questions , with no ego or overexaggerated claims as a sales pitch . Just direct helpful answers . That was about 10 some years ago . 

Lou's articles are easy to understand with a good way to use the ecollar . For folks asking for books or articles on the proper use of ecollars I always recommend his . But his articles are the only thing I recommend coming from him .

I do recommend attending seminars over videos , books or internet articles . When I called years ago looking for a more Law Enforcement based ecollar trainer to possibly instruct at one of our new Patrol K9 classes years ago the most recommended by other Police K9 Trainers was Mike Horn of the Las Vegas P.D. K9 Unit .


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Jim Nash said:


> I bought a Dobbs ecollar video many years ago . It was ok . I'm not big on videos or books . I like more hands on learning . They were also very helpful when I called with questions . Took time to answer questions , with no ego or overexaggerated claims as a sales pitch . Just direct helpful answers . That was about 10 some years ago .
> 
> Lou's articles are easy to understand with a good way to use the ecollar . For folks asking for books or articles on the proper use of ecollars I always recommend his . But his articles are the only thing I recommend coming from him .
> 
> I do recommend attending seminars over videos , books or internet articles . When I called years ago looking for a more Law Enforcement based ecollar trainer to possibly instruct at one of our new Patrol K9 classes years ago the most recommended by other Police K9 Trainers was Mike Horn of the Las Vegas P.D. K9 Unit .


Vegas PD got into electric through Fred Hassen


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Ron Davidson said:


> Vegas PD got into electric through Fred Hassen


I'm lying. ](*,) They(LVPD) got into it without him. Sorry about the mixup.


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

Jim Nash said:


> I bought a Dobbs ecollar video many years ago . It was ok . I'm not big on videos or books . I like more hands on learning . They were also very helpful when I called with questions . Took time to answer questions , with no ego or overexaggerated claims as a sales pitch . Just direct helpful answers . That was about 10 some years ago .
> 
> Lou's articles are easy to understand with a good way to use the ecollar . For folks asking for books or articles on the proper use of ecollars I always recommend his . But his articles are the only thing I recommend coming from him .
> 
> I do recommend attending seminars over videos , books or internet articles . When I called years ago looking for a more Law Enforcement based ecollar trainer to possibly instruct at one of our new Patrol K9 classes years ago the most recommended by other Police K9 Trainers was Mike Horn of the Las Vegas P.D. K9 Unit .


Thanks. I do prefer seminar learning as well. Unfortunately very few are in the midwest/near chicago.


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## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Ron Davidson said:


> Thanks for the plug guys =D> We do e-collar training in my group and my business. I learned from Fred Hassen like alot of very good electric trainers in the country. Fred and Bart talk often and know each other pretty well. It's likely Fred will be at this seminar also from what he's told me. If you want to learn e-collar, between those two guys, this will be the place to be.


It would be hard to make a case that any one individual has been responsible for more dogs being trained by trainers using e-collars that cut their teeth under the methods developed by Fred Hassen.

But then again I am biased as a Sit Means Sit trainer.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

While Bellon is a master with the tool, his seminars are not geared towards the beginner, rather they are for more advanced students of the tool. 

Jake and Carole, looks like you're BOTH wrong. Jim, thanks for the kind words, I think. lol

Mike Horn is quite good and he does work with private clients. Also very good are Donn Yarnall and Brian Mowry, but they only work with LE these days as far as I know. I do seminars for LE, SAR and pet owners as well. 

Ron glad you corrected your egregious error. LVMPD was using Ecollars long before Mr. Hassen came along. They know of him but DO NOT use his methods. 

As to seminars near Chicago, I was near there many years ago. I'll be happy to return if you're interested in putting a seminar together. I don't compete in any of the sports but my methods can be adapted to get whatever you want from your dog. 

You already have my website.


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## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

http://www.tarheelcanine.com/articles/Obedience Training/OffLeashECollar.pdf !!!


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## hillel schwartzman (Nov 9, 2008)

Hey Kevin
Earlier post on the forum listed a Bart bellon seminar this fall in Va.
It might be with the trip. 
He trains and helps the of the best Sch teams in Germany and is world known to be one of the best e-collar men in the world. Hope to see you there\\/


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> While Bellon is a master with the tool, his seminars are not geared towards the beginner, rather they are for more advanced students of the tool.
> 
> Jake and Carole, looks like you're BOTH wrong. Jim, thanks for the kind words, I think. lol
> 
> ...


Yeah my mistake, I'm just mostly perfect. ;-)

There will be a handful of e-collar professionals there. Plenty to learn even from square one. If anyone wants to learn how to get started and excel with electric. This seminar will be the place to be.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Ron Davidson said:


> Yeah my mistake, I'm just mostly perfect. ;-)
> 
> There will be a handful of e-collar professionals there. Plenty to learn even from square one. If anyone wants to learn how to get started and excel with electric. This seminar will be the place to be.


Ron,

As I'm sure you already know. Fred Hassen is (was) based out of Las Vegas and has the most successful e-collar training franchise in the US. This "discussion" of how much influence Fred has had in the Las Vegas law enforcement arena has been going on for years. Since Fred isn't on this list I would take any claims of what influence he did or didn't have, with a grain of salt.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

I don't think that any other Ecollar trainer (or any kind of trainer for that matter) franchises dog training so making the claim of being _"the most successful Ecollar training franchise in the US"_ is a bit like finishing "first in class" when no one else was entered. 

Mr. Hassen isn't on any lists where people give advice to help others. It's part of his marketing not to give away anything for free except for demos to potential clients. 

If anyone doubts my assertion that LVMPD does not use Mr. Hassen's methods and that they were using Ecollars long before he came along, they're but a phone call away and are happy to dispel the erroneous statement that Ron made and then quickly corrected.


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Ron,
> 
> As I'm sure you already know. Fred Hassen is (was) based out of Las Vegas and has the most successful e-collar training franchise in the US. This "discussion" of how much influence Fred has had in the Las Vegas law enforcement arena has been going on for years. Since Fred isn't on this list I would take any claims of what influence he did or didn't have, with a grain of salt.


I talk to him(Fred) almost daily. That's how I know he *didn't* get them into electric. No discussion needed. I made a mistake and corrected myself.


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> If anyone doubts my assertion that LVMPD does not use Mr. Hassen's methods and that they were using Ecollars long before he came along, they're but a phone call away and are happy to dispel the erroneous statement that Ron made and then quickly corrected.


What are you talking about?? I already said it was a mistake. Can everyone read? ](*,)


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Ron Davidson said:


> What are you talking about?? I already said it was a mistake. Can everyone read? ](*,)


I doubt that _"everyone"_ can read. I know that I can though. Just yesterday I read a book and most of the pages hadn't even been colored in yet! lol

I got your correction but Mr. Barriano placed Mr. Hassen's contribution (actually a lack of them) to the LVMPD in question when he wrote,


> Since Fred isn't on this list I would take any claims of what influence he did or didn't have, with a grain of salt.


Now that we know that you speak with Mr. Hassen regularly I think the issue is settled.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Been to quite a few E-seminars and personally Brian Mowry has been above all one of the most interesting and practical. He does more tactical/LE type stuff, but all the same. He started out working for DOBBS and also worked for Tri-tronics for years. Very good!


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Brian is very good. To bring you up to speed on his whereabouts. He's now head K-9 trainer with the US Secret Service. His dogs do bomb detection work for the President.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Also he is the head trainer of the dogs on the white house lawn! (MAN, amazing the amount of work the dogs do in a given day!!!!  Know him very well and see him on occasion.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> I don't think that any other Ecollar trainer (or any kind of trainer for that matter) franchises dog training so making the claim of being _"the most successful Ecollar training franchise in the US"_ is a bit like finishing "first in class" when no one else was entered.
> 
> Mr. Hassen isn't on any lists where people give advice to help others. It's part of his marketing not to give away anything for free except for demos to potential clients.
> 
> If anyone doubts my assertion that LVMPD does not use Mr. Hassen's methods and that they were using Ecollars long before he came along, they're but a phone call away and are happy to dispel the erroneous statement that Ron made and then quickly corrected.



Lou,

It is easy to win an argument when your opponent isn't aware of the discussion. Everyone is aware of your differences with Fred Hassen. It is "unfair" for you to characterize Fred Hassen or Bart Bellon or Brian Mowry or anyone elses seminar availablility or techniques.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I did NOT mention
LVMPD, I said
"This "discussion" of how much influence Fred has had in the Las Vegas law enforcement arena has been going on for years."
The Las Vegas law enforcement arena includes the Sheriffs
Department and surrounding town Police departments too.

The fact that Fred has identified a niche market (e-collar
training franchises) where he dominates, isn't diminished by the lack of competition. I also can't fault anyone for not giving away something that has value?


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Lou,
> 
> It is easy to win an argument when your opponent isn't aware of the discussion.


Thomas if you think there's something _"unfair"_ about what's been said, please feel free to invite Mr. Hassen here to straighten out the record. Nothing stops him from joining. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> Everyone is aware of your differences with Fred Hassen. It is "unfair" for you to characterize Fred Hassen or Bart Bellon or Brian Mowry or anyone elses seminar availablility or techniques.


Others makes comments about any trainer that someone asks about just about any time that their names come up. I speak only from my personal experience. I've been to seminars put on by all of the people you mention above and I consider Mike Horn (mentioned earlier) and Brian Mowry to be good friends. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> Please don't put words in my mouth. I did NOT mention LVMPD


Ron mentioned the _"Vegas PD."_ It's a small point but their correct name is the _"Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department,"_ (LVMPD). I too was ONLY speaking about that department. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> I said "This "discussion" of how much influence Fred has had in the Las Vegas law enforcement arena has been going on for years."


Not in this thread. Ron was quite specific when he wrote _"*Vegas PD *got into electric through Fred Hassen,"_ and then quickly corrected his error. He was NOT talking about the _*"Las Vegas law enforcement arena"*_ as you tried to generalize the discussion to. It's clear that he was talking about ONE police department. So was I. 

I have no knowledge about Mr. Hassen's' involvement with the local Sheriff's office or any other Department's in that area (except for one) but I made no comment about them. Nor did anyone else until you mentioned _"the arena."_ 



Thomas Barriano said:


> The Las Vegas law enforcement arena includes the Sheriffs Department and surrounding town Police departments too.


Yes, it does, but that was NOT under discussion in this thread. Not by Ron and not by me. YOU tried to generalize our discussion to the local _"law enforcement arena."_ If you have some specific information about other departments in what you call _"the arena"_ please post it to show us the breadth of his influence in this area. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> The fact that Fred has identified a niche market (e-collar training franchises) where he dominates, isn't diminished by the lack of competition.


Please don't try to put words into MY mouth. I diminished nothing, nor did I try to. You wrote that Mr. Hassen _"has the most successful e-collar training franchise in the US."_ At first glance the statement seems quite impressive. But when one learns that no one else is in that particular game, not so much. It's easy to dominate if there isn't anyone else competing. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> I also can't fault anyone for not giving away something that has value?


I wasn’t _"fault[ing]"_ anyone. I was merely mentioning how Mr. Hassen operates. He gives you nothing (except for what I've already mentioned) unless you pay him. If everyone felt that way, this forum and most others, would die a pretty quick death. Most people, professionals and advanced amateurs alike, are happy to share their knowledge in venues such as this one. Mr. Hassen is not. I made no judgment about that in my earlier statement and I still have not. Simply stating a fact.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lou,

Ron made a simple miss statement that he quickly corrected,
hardly an "egregious error" like you tried to characterize it.
As far as the rest of your reply, to paraphrase Shakespeare,
"The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks." 




Lou Castle said:


> Thomas if you think there's something _"unfair"_ about what's been said, please feel free to invite Mr. Hassen here to straighten out the record. Nothing stops him from joining.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Lou,
> 
> Ron made a simple miss statement that he quickly corrected,
> hardly an "egregious error" like you tried to characterize it.


I guess it depends on your point of view. Mike Horn worked hard to establish the reputation of the LVMPD as one of the outstanding K-9 units of the US. I don't think he'd be too happy to hear that Mr. Hassen was being given credit for some of that work when he had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. Add in the fact that Mike has seen Mr. Hassen's work and STILL rejected it and you have what I consider to be _"egregious error."_ Others need not agree with my assessment. 

I bet if someone else took credit for training your dog, you'd not let them hear the end of it until they corrected their error. And I bet that you consider that their "error" had been _"egregious."_ 



Thomas Barriano said:


> As far as the rest of your reply, to paraphrase Shakespeare, "The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks."


I happen to think that I _"doth protest" just enough! _ lol. Especially when you consider the context in which Queen Gertrude said the line. You might want to research the true meaning of your _"paraphrase."_ Like many, you got it wrong. But that's a whole 'nother discussion. 

There is not and has never been any disagreement about Mr. Hassen's COMPLETE lack of ANYTHING to do with the LVMPD. NO ONE was talking about the _"Las Vegas arena."_


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> snip
> 
> same old same old
> 
> ...


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Lou Castle said:


> Jake and Carole, looks like you're BOTH wrong. .


That's because we forgot to run and tattle to you that this thread was up......:lol:


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Earlier I wrote,


> I happen to think that I "doth protest" just enough! lol. Especially when you consider the context in which Queen Gertrude said the line. You might want to research the true meaning of your "paraphrase." Like many, you got it wrong. But that's a whole 'nother discussion.


Looks as if Thomas wants to make it part of this discussion, no matter how off topic it is. OK. lol



Thomas Barriano said:


> Lou
> 
> Having gone to High School back in the olden days, when students actually had to read Shakespeare (and other classics). I assure you, *I used the paraphrase exactly as I intended * [Emphasis added]


You used it _"As [you] intended. _ But that's not how Shakespeare or Queen Gertrude (who spoke the line in Hamlet) intended. The meaning of the word _"protest"_ is different today than when it was written. Modern use of that word (meaning "to object" or "to deny") came long after Shakespeare wrote it. Originally it meant _"to vow"_ or _"to declare solemnly."_ And so Queen Gertrude's line meant THE OPPOSITE of your meaning. She was being _ironic!_ But it's a common error, an easy mistake to make unless one knows the etymology of the words. Not to worry. I've made the same mistake myself. Perhaps now that you know these facts, you can avoid it in the future. 

Earlier I wrote,


> There is not and has never been any disagreement about Mr. Hassen's COMPLETE lack of ANYTHING to do with the LVMPD. NO ONE was talking about the "Las Vegas arena."





Thomas Barriano said:


> My original reply was to Ron, NOT to you. I was the one that mentioned (TO RON) the "Las Vegas arena.


As always, when you post in a public forum, even though you address your comments to one member, anyone may respond. If you want to carry on a private conversation with Ron, may I suggest email or PM's? 



Thomas Barriano said:


> Everyone knows you have a problem with Fred Hassen and jump on every mention of his name.


Sorry Thomas but you're wrong. I have a problem anytime someone says something that's not true. It has nothing to do with Mr. Hassen. It could have been anyone that was being discussed. If it was my name that had been mentioned as having started the LVMPD in Ecollars, I'd have corrected it. 

It's a fact is simply that Ron was talking about *one police department and one only. * YOU tried to broaden it to some vague _"arena,"_ apparently to make it seem that Mr. Hassen's influence on LE was wider than it really is. LVMPD is not the only LE agency in that area to have completely rejected his methods. Even after one of their members had tried them. 

You seem to be the one with the problem about Mr. Hassen and/or with me. Rarely do you discuss the topic when it's a thread that I'm involved in. If you do it's only peripherally. Rather you come down on some small detail about something I've said and try to pick it to pieces. Instead your statements are shown to be wrong, time after time. You even attacked my use of an adjective! LOL. And then you compound this by continuing to go farther and farther afield, straying so far away from the topic that sometimes it's not even recognizable any longer. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> The facts are, he is a successful trainer and business man and he has had an influence on e collar (including law enforcement) training, especially in his home town of Las Vegas.


No one is disputing his success as a business man. I do dispute his success as a trainer for many dogs, particularly those that do difficult scent work as in LE and SAR. One has only to search for his name to see many comments from people who have seen his work but DO NOT LIKE what they saw. Most every trainer has some influence in their _"arena"_ whatever that means. No one is completely useless. They can always serve as a bad example. lol. 

Are you ever going to get back to the topic or is this another thread doomed by your personal feelings, word bending and minutiae?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

If the OP needs additional information from this thread, contact me and I'll reopen it. Otherwise, this isn't going to turn into another Lou and Thomas show.

DFrost


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