# Biggest Mistake Made



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

If you can, what's the biggest K-9 mistake you ever made...and learned from...and would never do it again with another dog? :-k

For me, one of them is spaying a female TOO soon to tell what that animal can do...wish I had waited 2 more years to see the real LAB in motion! What a great dog Nikki was.:twisted:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> If you can, what's the biggest K-9 mistake you ever made...and learned from...and would never do it again with another dog? :-k
> 
> For me, one of them is spaying a female TOO soon to tell what that animal can do...wish I had waited 2 more years to see the real LAB in motion! What a great dog Nikki was.:twisted:


doing civil work for a small Filipino guy that had a really nasty 100+ lb AB on a harness that wanted the dog to bark more. If I had not held the dog up so the guy could pry him off of my bicep, I might have lost it..

a plastic bag and duct tape took care of it til we were done  

It was pretty funny, I was actually laughing while he was on me..because I watched all the blood drain out of the guys head, he turned whiter than me, his color went out at a straight line level that dropped down his face..For some reason I thought that was hilarious at the time...He was about to pass out, I had to Talk HIM through helping me...:-o


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I'd say learning from a Koehler trainer and getting my start in dog training in working with agressive shelter dogs. I switched to marker training, but that start is too ingrained in me (10 years later).

Note several long threads about me interpreting a dog's communication growl as aggression, correcting it, making a hell of a mess with this dog. Took over a year to get past my mistake, start over. Things are fine, but the growling is there - differently - and I'm still trying to get over my old training instinct and understand it as communication.

Plus side is understanding growling as communication - not necessarily aggression - helps me at work (grooming dogs).

A little less enthusiasm into starting training dogs would have been good. All I saw was fast results. In 2004, I found the first challenege to Koehler-style training on Leerburg web forum. Migrated over here. I stuck to training a dog straight Koehler-style and it broke the dog. After I seeing that I wish I had found a forum first, found out a wider-array of training methods/styles. It would have saved heartache ... and a lot of bite scars!

That's why the first advice is: find a club! See before doing. Walk before running.

Also at the same time, had problems with getting frustrated during training. (hellooo, too much pressure, dog shutting down. #-oBut with my background in training it wasn't the method, it was my lack of skill #-o )

Switched to marker training. I rarely get frustrated _during _a training session. If I do, I throw the dog a treat and walk away. Some days I'm just to high-stung to train, so I don't. Learning to walk away and try again later was a breakthrough in the time when I was beginning to learn marker training.

Before (circa 2001): This is a very bad dog and through my amazing greatness, I will force the dog to be good.
After (2006 to present): This is a pretty cool little dog, let's shape these behaviors into more acceptable ones, and then go jump off a dock. Or catch a disc. Or whatever the dogs likes to do.

The old Koehler stuff crops up every once in a while, but mosdtly life is good.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Single incident?

If you are talking to a client with an aggressive dog, don't imitate the dog's body language to communicate why you are not comfortable with the dog's body language!

:lol: #-o ](*,)

I have 7 puncture wounds on my left wrist, hand, and pinky finger. And I haven't trained an aggressive dog since.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Using muscle instead of brains to control a dog that love nothing more then a good fight.
That's one I always look back at and wonder what if.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

When I started using treats with my dogs I felt like I was really am great trainer. I wouldmwalk outmthe doormwith dry biscuits in my pants pocket and they would all sit with no command. . LOL Thought I was the cats meaw for sure. Didn't take long before I noticed that if I didn't have them they blew me off even with the command. They would actually walk up to me and smell both pockets. Then I was introduced to Koehler. Dogs work great with simp[le praise and I am happy.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That's ok Don! Not everybody can get it right. :grin::grin:O ;-)


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

That's a fact Bob. Throw me some treats and I may proof read the next post before putting it up also. LOL


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> That's a fact Bob. Throw me some treats and I may proof read the next post before putting it up also. LOL



:lol: It was such and easy opening. I just couldn't pass on it! :wink:


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

I think my biggest mistake was trying to force a dog to be something he just wasn't cut out to be. I knew the writing was on the wall and I just kept pushing. It took me taking a serious hard look at how much stress that this was putting us all under and deciding that this just wasn't good for either of us.


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

Not K9, but schutzhund...

Biggest mistake, will never be repeated again - letting a decent trial helper but way impatient/sucky teaching helper (which is what I needed in the fist place) work on a puppy when the pup was 6 months, after teething, to 8 months old.

It was all my fault, due to my inexperience at the time, following stupid directions, letting him work and push some defense on a dog so young, when it all should have been prey for a long time after that.

Dog recovered alright after that (with a lot of training by a more knowledgeable and patient helper), good dogs tend to do that, but he never stopped with some growling on the sleeve.

Since then, a helper that knows how to do puppy development is worth his/her weight in gold, in my view.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Using muscle instead of brains to control a dog that love nothing more then a good fight.
> That's one I always look back at and wonder what if.


 Flashbacks..................](*,)
Strong in back and weak in brains! LOL
Glad I'm not the only one.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Interesting reading. I always wondered what it would be like to make a mistake.

DFrost


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Anytime that I was angry while training...either times when I was angry during the day right before training, or when I stupidly let myself get angy while training. It is not beneficial to train that way.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Interesting reading. I always wondered what it would be like to make a mistake.
> 
> DFrost



Want video? :lol: You could relive the embarrassment through voyeurism.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Skip Morgart said:


> Anytime that I was angry while training...either times when I was angry during the day right before training, or when I stupidly let myself get angy while training. It is not beneficial to train that way.


The mistakes I remember with the most embarrassment fall into this category.


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## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

Trying to use my will to train my first AB. Thought by force I could get it. What a fool I was. Learned that leason the hard way. I think about what that dog could of been had i had an open mind. Some times you need that dog to teach you what you would never learn. Thankfully I learned and hope to never make that stupid mistake again.lol


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Letting someone do something, or talk me into doing something, to my dog that I was not comfortable with.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

:roll: Koehler method = will work for simple praise. L. O. L.


Koehler method is pure escape/avoidance training. The dog learns to be 'most comfortable,' not a happy worker in this method. It squashes the dog mentally (and a little physically), so he won't act out and try things. That said, there's a lot of pet owners out there who want their dog dialed down. And this method is great for that. Show me one working dog (doing well) on Koehler in recent years. 

Biggest mistake I've made (so far) is running around like an idiot trying to get my mal pup to pay attention to me, instead of making her push ME to work. Creating an active dog is something I won't screw up again.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> :roll: Koehler method = will work for simple praise. L. O. L.
> 
> 
> Koehler method is pure escape/avoidance training. The dog learns to be 'most comfortable,' not a happy worker in this method. It squashes the dog mentally (and a little physically), so he won't act out and try things. That said, there's a lot of pet owners out there who want their dog dialed down. And this method is great for that. Show me one working dog (doing well) on Koehler in recent years.
> ...


That's strange, mine got super excited when I came out with the choker and the leads. First thing people don't understand, IMO, there is a correct way and a wrong way to apply Koehler. Second, IMO, many dogs today are simply to weak for much correction, especially oif it applied wrong. Just didn't phase my dogs after the first couple of days because they seldom needed correction because they had fun doing it. As was said recently, some people can use some methods more effectivly than others, but you can't blame the method it you didn't know how to use it. Same can be said for marker training. If your timing sucks your not going to get results.


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

Thats funny, I have used Koehlers method for over 30 years training PSDs. If you don't believe my current partner is happy or can't work, just look at his capture rate and just how unhappy he is doing his job, I think you will be quite disapointed however.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

allowing an aggressive dog to get too close to a kid with a puppy.....won't happen again on my watch


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> That's strange, mine got super excited when I came out with the choker and the leads. First thing people don't understand, IMO, there is a correct way and a wrong way to apply Koehler. Same can be said for marker training. If your timing sucks your not going to get results.


Oh here we go....Don the formal trainer LOL

Biggest mistake I made I got off light, but I'll never ever do again. Lost my temper with a dog (gsd) and launched myself at him, we hit the deck eyeball to eyeball, luckily for me he had something in his mouth he wasn't giving up for anything.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Letting someone do something, or talk me into doing something, to my dog that I was not comfortable with.


That would be mine, too, and I'm ashamed of it. At one time when someone more experienced was around, I seemed to become a right nerd!

And then what Skip Morgart said and what Connie replied.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

> Oh here we go....Don the formal trainer LOL


What is funny Maggie is that you have no clue how much you and Gerry are alike.m You are Gerry reincarnate. LMAO Really.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> What is funny Maggie is that you have no clue how much you and Gerry are alike.m You are Gerry reincarnate. LMAO Really.


When did Gerry pass on?


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> When did Gerry pass on?


Right after Maggie gave him THE ultimatum! :mrgreen:


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of us made our worst mistakes when we first got started. Mine, hands down, was not asking "why". I was learning the steps and methods, but not the "why". For example, I was spending time teaching a 4 month old "foos" eventhough I had doubts about the importance of a baby knowing how to heel. What I should have been doing with a dog that age is drive building, but I never asked "Why are we teaching "foos" to pups?" I've still only been doing this for 3 1/2 years now, so I'm still very much in the learning process. But I ask "why" about everything now, from "Why do my feet need to be here on a long bite?" to "Why do you feed that kind of food?".


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Hanging out a ladies bedroom window when her husband came home. Hanging there for hours until the sun came up . Realized I was about two feet from the ground

Oh, and he had a dog.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Adam Swilling said:


> I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of us made our worst mistakes when we first got started.".


 Adam let me run with this one...can "you" say that in the early days of training, a dog was ever ruined? I think most folks have changed how and maybe where they train, might even do something very different from the list of experiences. Unless the person is a full blown moron, how can you *ruin* a dog? I've made growth in just giving the critter time to be a puppy and not wishing it to adulthood!!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Adam let me run with this one...can "you" say that in the early days of training, a dog was ever ruined? I think most folks have changed how and maybe where they train, might even do something very different from the list of experiences. Unless the person is a full blown moron, how can you *ruin* a dog? I've made growth in just giving the critter time to be a puppy and not wishing it to adulthood!!


I "ruined" a dog. :-$ Went to this "awesome" trainer. Drove like 7 hours each way to lessons. Straight Koehler. On a SOFT rescue dog that had *just* changed hands 3 times in a week. I didn't know $%^& about temperaments or training methods. It was "this guy gets results [with HARD GSD's] so I should do what he says"

I don't remember how long the dog lasted. It completely broke her. She was a nervous wreck. She couldn't perform any obedience - not even average-pet-dog heeling. It was competely pathetic. She was eating 4 POUNDS of raw and 4 cups of kibble per day and still losing weight. My vet assumed she had a metabolic disorder and told me to have her put down. Which I did.

This is my most striking failure with any single dog. I was young. I didn't have books, video, internet. I didn't know there were choices in dog training. I followed my "trainer"'s advice "to a T".

If I had that dog now, I would have come at it with drive building and marker training. That dog had a decent amount of drive. Definitely enough to go for flyball, agility, disc, dock diving, type activities.

I was young and stupid and a nice dog died for it. Yes, bad training can ruin a dog.


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

Mine is trusting the training director to us the electric sleeve and e collar on my dog... I will never let anyone else handle my remote and talk me into using an electric sleeve to clean up my dogs dirty hold and bark... / biting when finding the helper...
I was young and trusted the TD of the SchH. club... Never again... She (my dog) pulled through but it took some good training and she still acts schetchey on that particular field and especially if the TD is in the blind doing the helper work... 
Live and learn


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Letting someone do something, or talk me into doing something, to my dog that I was not comfortable with.


+1. BTDT, not sure if he'll ever be the same.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Anne Vaini said:


> I "ruined" a dog. :-$ Went to this "awesome" trainer. Drove like 7 hours each way to lessons. Straight Koehler. On a SOFT rescue dog that had *just* changed hands 3 times in a week. I didn't know $%^& about temperaments or training methods. It was "this guy gets results [with HARD GSD's] so I should do what he says"
> 
> I don't remember how long the dog lasted. It completely broke her. She was a nervous wreck. She couldn't perform any obedience - not even average-pet-dog heeling. It was competely pathetic. She was eating 4 POUNDS of raw and 4 cups of kibble per day and still losing weight. My vet assumed she had a metabolic disorder and told me to have her put down. Which I did.
> 
> ...


Wow, what a horrible story! You didn't know anything about dogs, went and got yourself a rescue and decided to go heavy duty training ? You sure you like dogs Anne ?


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

In line with the thread, and in response: Sometimes the ends don't justify the means.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Anne sorry to hear that and I guess this is where some of it may go IF others posted. When you TRUST others with the things you count so dear, often you become a victim of being human. In a similar deal, I think newbies with the aide of this forum should understand NOT ALL TDs KNOW JACK!!! Your best interest is sometimes in the hands of an EGO MASTER! :^o


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Anne sorry to hear that and I guess this is where some of it may go IF others posted. When you TRUST others with the things you count so dear, often you become a victim of being human. In a similar deal, I think newbies with the aide of this forum should understand NOT ALL TDs KNOW JACK!!! Your best interest is sometimes in the hands of an EGO MASTER! :^o


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> What is funny Maggie is that you have no clue how much you and Gerry are alike.m You are Gerry reincarnate. LMAO Really.


Don, you were baiting for a bite, I was feeling generous and so decided to give you one. You have no clue what you are talking about....Gerry is Canadian :roll::-D.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> Wow, what a horrible story! You didn't know anything about dogs, went and got yourself a rescue and decided to go heavy duty training ? You sure you like dogs Anne ?


It was almost a decade ago when I didn't know %$^# about dogs. Bad experiences make for fast learning! 

I'm posting in hopes that someone might see a GOOD REASON why they are given the advice to back up, find some clubs, watch some training _before_ getting a dog.

Hindsight is 20/20. :/


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Anne Vaini said:


> It was almost a decade ago when I didn't know %$^# about dogs. Bad experiences make for fast learning!
> 
> I'm posting in hopes that someone might see a GOOD REASON why they are given the advice to back up, find some clubs, watch some training _before_ getting a dog.
> 
> Hindsight is 20/20. :/


How could someone have a GOOD REASON when they have eff all clue about dogs and want to get into training? What the fuK is that ??? Training something you have no clue about ? Hoiw can you expect to train something you have no clue about ? I find it perverse, and nothing more than someone desperate for some kind of control. jmo.

I don't mean to be offensive, I just find it off the wall!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> How could someone have a GOOD REASON when they have eff all clue about dogs and want to get into training? What the fuK is that ??? Training something you have no clue about ? Hoiw can you expect to train something you have no clue about ? I find it perverse, and nothing more than someone desperate for some kind of control. jmo.
> 
> I don't mean to be offensive, I just find it off the wall!


I don't understand what you're saying. I was a kid. I wanted to learn about dogs. I followed a successful trainer's advice perfectly. It ruined the dog. Because I didn't know there were other ways to train a dog. And because the trainer I followed was ^%*&.

Maggie, I don't know what it is about you that assumes malicious intent in everything I say. I'm brave or stupid enough to post about my mistakes. Old and new. If you read my first response on this thread, you will see how those old mistakes started and how they still affect me now. As you already know. You accused me of animal cruelty because I encouraged a dog that doesn't like a vacuum to leave the room before I started vacuuming. Somehow, every action I take - even those in the dog's best interest - you call out as "cruelty" "abuse" "perverse".

I make mistakes. I hope that other people can learn from my mistakes so they are not repeated. 

As far as I can tell, your comments to me have little to do with dog training, but appear that you follow me from thread-to-thread with personal attacks. Most of them after you clearly have not read what I have written fully.

I say my mistake because I don't want anyone to repeat it. Clear?

You might have always had the luxury or books, videos, trainers, clubs, helpers, trials, training classes. I did not. Unfortunately that gave me a rocky start between compulsion and cookie training. I am very grateful to the people who helped teach me how to integrate these together in marker training.

YOU have not posted anything on this thread about YOUR biggest training mistake. Nope, you chicken out and harass people who mention their own mistake or embarassment in training. So Maggie, what is your biggest training mistake? I'd love to hear about it!


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I don't think I've made any colossal blunders, though I would like a do-over with my Mal. I thought I was doing things right but his foundation sucks and in hindsight, I could have done much better, if I had known better.

I also think I sold him short for a long time. He may not be world class, but he's got lots of drive and he has a good attitude. I've come to appreciate him a lot more the more I've asked him to do. Schutzhund, obedience, rally, dock diving, agility - whatever I ask, he's willing. His biggest obstacle to success is me, though I doubt he cares - he has a pretty cushy life.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> ... I make mistakes. I hope that other people can learn from my mistakes so they are not repeated. ... I say my mistake because I don't want anyone to repeat it. ... YOU have not posted anything on this thread about YOUR biggest training mistake.


Maggie did post (quoted below).




maggie fraser said:


> ... Biggest mistake I made I got off light, but I'll never ever do again. Lost my temper with a dog (gsd) and launched myself at him, we hit the deck eyeball to eyeball, luckily for me he had something in his mouth he wasn't giving up for anything.




But there's agreement at Mod Central about the thread. It's not about jumping on anyone because of a mistake they now admit and regret.


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Not 'getting into dogs' sooner in my life.

I just sort of took them for granted most of my life.


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle (Dec 31, 2009)

Biggest Mistake=Dog Park.


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

what happened there?

I often envision/dream of my dog in the dog park and I always have a picture of it in my head that my dog is a bowling ball and the other dogs are bowling pins being thrown around once he plowed into the melee with clueless owners of said dogs standing around, chit chating, twirling their thumbs, talking on the phone, instant messaging, flirting with one another etc... and I have a horrified look on my face, running there and screaming NO! STAY!

Then, I wake up and smile, roll to the other side and fall asleep again.




Jonathan Hoffnagle said:


> Biggest Mistake=Dog Park.


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## Laura Briggs (Jan 11, 2011)

Agreed. dog park = giant mistake.

I took my then 6 month old female GSD to the local dog park because a good friend said how much she liked it ("it's huge and I've never met an aggressive dog there"). We were there for exactly 10 minutes before a huge male GSD beat the crap out of my dog. She was on her back shrieking in pain and the owner refused to pull his dog off of her ("they're just playin'"). I pulled that 85+ lb male off her, my husband carried her to the car, and we rushed to the vet. My very poor judgement could have gotten her killed and/or me seriously injured.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

How does one, anyone, ruin a dog? The dog must have some level of BOUNCE BACK nature. Unless you have a real moron of a trainer, most things I think can be saved...


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

My biggest mistake - making an emotional decision to take a replacement puppy after suddenly losing a sibling to intusussception(sp?). He's a nice dog and I love him for what he is, but not what I should have done if I had thought it through logically... Never again...


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I have seen some folks work dogs, and I thought they KNEW what they were doing. It doesn't make me stupid, it just means I trusted that person. Now if you keep going back and getting the same bad training AND you know better...well! 

I think dog and people have a bounce back ability. Everything keeps some level of "issue" when "stuff" happens. As an open statement, like Connie said, it isn't designed to call kolks out or put some spin against them.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Trusting an adult family member to handle the proper sequenced dog shuffle with my pack. That is feeding, exercising, rotating from kennels to yard, etc. Has to be perfectly orchestrated or all heck breaks loose. His lapse in technique caused a huge fight among five (GSD & DS) that I had to intervene and break up. Three were rushed to the vet and I ended up at the ER. That was many years ago and absolutely no one but myself handles the dog shuffle since.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Oh, were you referring to training, sorry I deterred OT. For me that would be - started training many many years ago with a TD who excelled in conformation and only a little in ob and I totally shut down my first GSD with that boring heeling, round and round and round. Not a big mistake but frustrating to overcome all the same.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: "Oh, were you referring to training, sorry I deterred OT"

no you didn't deter ... training wasn't mentioned in the OP , and the OP example had nothing to do with training either 

you might have gotten that impression somewhere further along in the thread since very few threads on this forum ever stay OT


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

While I can't say my rookie mistakes have runied a dog, per se, I can say that mistakes I made early on set a dog back and didn't let it realize its full potential, or what I felt could have been its full potential. Somebody told me once that if a dog's potential could be carried in a bucket, the key is to spill as little as possible as you train. Some mistakes spill a little and some a lot. As I said earlier, for me it all comes back to asking "why". If I ask a helper/trainer why they're doing something and the best answer they can give me is "That's the way we do it", guess what ain't happening? But it takes a while before you learn that.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Adam Swilling said:


> While I can't say my rookie mistakes have runied a dog, per se, I can say that mistakes I made early on set a dog back and didn't let it realize its full potential, or what I felt could have been its full potential. Somebody told me once that if a dog's potential could be carried in a bucket, the key is to spill as little as possible as you train. Some mistakes spill a little and some a lot. As I said earlier, for me it all comes back to asking "why". If I ask a helper/trainer why they're doing something and the best answer they can give me is "That's the way we do it", guess what ain't happening? But it takes a while before you learn that.


 Adam...keep preaching...I'm loving it. Makes so much sense and the reason is simple, b/c YOU are in control of YOUR dog! Thanks ...keep going bro!=D>


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

That's right.!!! I had completely forgot about that incedent. Big mistake telling one of the ex wives not to open the gate between two dog yards. She just had to try and go through that one gate. Dog fight, her in the middle. 11 days in the hospital, 1 heart attack, months with a mototized gizmo stapped to her hand to work the reattached tendons and the broken fingers. Yes sir, that had completely slipped my mind. The really big mistake was rushing home when, I got the call, and throwing the two dogs in the truck and rushing them to the vet. That was one of the divorces.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Interesting reading. I always wondered what it would be like to make a mistake.
> 
> DFrost


I can tell you about mistakes I didn't make!

Paying attention to some of the BS posts I got on forums regarding dog training! 

Hopefully, you know your dog better than any internet WIZARD. The internet can provide great help in dog training.

Weed through the the advice and choose what you and your dog are comfortable with using for specific issues and/or training aids.

I've had truly great advice, idiot insults and everything in between. In the end choose something and if that fails try another method.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Maggie did post (quoted below).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is this what they call a "COME TO JESUS" revival meeting?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Is this what they call a "COME TO JESUS" revival meeting?


 
Maybe I'll be up for reprogramming soon too ?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Anne Vaini said:


> Maggie, I don't know what it is about you that assumes malicious intent in everything I say. I'm brave or stupid enough to post about my mistakes. Old and new. If you read my first response on this thread, you will see how those old mistakes started and how they still affect me now. As you already know. You accused me of animal cruelty because I encouraged a dog that doesn't like a vacuum to leave the room before I started vacuuming. Somehow, every action I take - even those in the dog's best interest - you call out as "cruelty" "abuse" "perverse".
> 
> As far as I can tell, your comments to me have little to do with dog training, but appear that you follow me from thread-to-thread with personal attacks. Most of them after you clearly have not read what I have written fully.


No idea what you're talking about ^^, but I ain't gonna argue with you, not about this nor anything else. If I say what I wanna say I'll be up for reprogramming so I am going to practice restraint. Only one wee thing I will say is this; hope you paid attention to Dave Colborn's post, and quit feeling sorry for yourself!

We all make mistakes.


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## Ron Gnodde (Sep 1, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> Anytime that I was angry while training...either times when I was angry during the day right before training, or when I stupidly let myself get angy while training. It is not beneficial to train that way.


Amen, been there done that and have witnessed it more then a couple of times not pretty and for sure the dogs don't benefit. Skip training your dog when you are in the wrong frame of mind go in the suit instead.


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