# Royal Canin Energy 4800



## Esa Rasimus

Hey Y'All, 

Im just in the process of switching my K9s kibble from the Blue Buffalo Chicken over to the Royal Canin Energy 4800, the last few yrs Ive tested this product in France and it really made a HUGE difference with the overall stamina level in my dogs, Ive yet ? to test a product here with the same results. 

interested to hear feedback from others using this product here in North America, 

Thanks,


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## Tracey Hughes

ROYAL CANIN - 

Chicken meal, chicken fat, corn, corn gluten meal, rice, natural flavours, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), ground psyllium seeds, sodium silico aluminate, anchovy oil, rice hulls, salt, potassium chloride, fructo-oligosaccharides, monopotassium phosphate, calcium carbonate, brewer's yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), choline chloride, taurine, vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, niacin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract, trace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], chondroitin sulfate, L-carnitine, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E) and citric acid, rosemary extract. 1 cup = 8 ounces = 129 grams = 590 kcal/cup
Analysis table Amount
Crude Protein (% min.)	30.5
Crude Fat (% min.)	28.5
Crude Fibre (% max.)	3.5
Moisture (% max.)	10.0
Ash (% min.)



INUKSHUK 32/32
Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols, Source of Vitamin E), Fish Meal (Herring and Anchovy), Whole Grain Wheat, Whole Grain Corn, Wheat Shorts, Dried Beet Pulp (Sugar Removed), Dried Brewer’s Yeast, Fish Oil (Herring Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols, Source of Vitamin E), Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Chondrotin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Lysine Hydrochloride, Vitamine E Supplement Selenium Yeast, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C Activity), Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Riboflavin (B2), Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Folic Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 32.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 32.00%
Crude Fibre (max.) 3.00%
Moisture (max.) 10.00%
Ash (max.) 8.50%
Omega-3* (min.) 0.95%
Omega-6* (min.) 3.00%
Glucosamine* (min.) 335 ppm
Chondroitin* (min.) 250 ppm


Calorie Content - Metabolizable Energy (ME):
= 4980 Kcal/kg

= 707 Kcal/cup



****I have fed Inukshuk for about 5 years now. Love the results I get on all my dogs, various breeds. It also comes in a 30/25 and a 26/16 formula. I love that it is made in Canada as well. I order a pallet, 50 bags, at a time.


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## Brian McQuain

Corn...yum.


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## Brian Anderson

looks great if your feeding chickens...

If your feeding dogs try meat...its cheaper too!


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## Connie Sutherland

_" ... interested to hear feedback from others ... "_




It's a high-calorie food meant for dogs who are very active.


Corn gluten boosts the protein content cheaply. 

It's low in meat compared to grain for my opinion, although I've certainly seen worse.


JMO!





ETA
I found it in the Dog Food Advisor, which is not perfect but is usually helpful and (I think) useful:

_"Judging by its ingredients alone, Royal Canin Cynotechnique Energy appears to be an average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 36%, a fat level of 33% and estimated carbohydrates of about 23%.

Above-average protein. High fat. And low carbohydrates… when compared to a typical dry dog food.

In any case, when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the corn gluten meal, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing an average amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Royal Canin Cynotechnique Energy 4800 is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of chicken meal as its main source of animal protein… "_
_
"Royal Canin Cynotechnique Energy 4800 dry dog food receives the Advisor’s mid-tier rating of three stars."_

from http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/royal-canin-cynotechnique-energy-4800-dog-food/


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## rick smith

maybe it's the rosemary and marigold that tips the scales ? 

.....and no premium balanced dog food should be without a few herbal ingredients 

care to mention the price ?; can't be premium if it's cheap 

i know Royal Canin puts out a lot of blends, but i had no idea they were up to 4800 already !

can you tell yet that i feed raw and dislike "best brand" threads ? 

crap, there went my new years resolution out the window...didn't even last a month :-((((


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## rick smith

sorry, slap my hand again.... i don't live in north america so this thread doesn't even apply to me !!!
.... a senior moment again; lots of em these days :-(


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## Brian Anderson

rick smith said:


> maybe it's the rosemary and marigold that tips the scales ?
> 
> .....and no premium balanced dog food should be without a few herbal ingredients
> 
> care to mention the price ?; can't be premium if it's cheap
> 
> i know Royal Canin puts out a lot of blends, but i had no idea they were up to 4800 already !
> 
> can you tell yet that i feed raw and dislike "best brand" threads ?
> 
> crap, there went my new years resolution out the window...didn't even last a month :-((((


You cant be as bad as I am about preaching raw lol ... its just a no brainer to me .. I have seen such a HUGE difference in my dogs since we went raw several years ago. I want everyone to enjoy the same benefits with their dogs. That food there here is 60 bucks on the low end and 85 on the high end ... WHAT!!! lol


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## Tracey Hughes

Since owning dogs I have tried everything from the cheaper brands to the most expensive plus a lot of in betweens. I fed raw for 3 years, and nothing has compared, or even come close, to the Inukshuk food. My dogs are outdoors 24/7 year round and I used to have to supplement with lard or oils to keep the weight on.

Now I feed the 2-4 cups of food a day depending on the season and the dog and I couldn’t be happier. 

I could care less about the corn in it, a lot of the performance food have it…my dogs can’t tell the difference anyways, they gobble it up and have thick shiny coats are in top shape and always have good endurance. This is the first food I have fed that I haven’t any complaints with.


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## Brian Anderson

Tracey Hughes said:


> Since owning dogs I have tried everything from the cheaper brands to the most expensive plus a lot of in betweens. I fed raw for 3 years, and nothing has compared, or even come close, to the Inukshuk food. My dogs are outdoors 24/7 year round and I used to have to supplement with lard or oils to keep the weight on.
> 
> Now I feed the 2-4 cups of food a day depending on the season and the dog and I couldn’t be happier.
> 
> I could care less about the corn in it, a lot of the performance food have it…my dogs can’t tell the difference anyways, they gobble it up and have thick shiny coats are in top shape and always have good endurance. This is the first food I have fed that I haven’t any complaints with.


Tracey I hadn't heard of that food until you mentioned it. I went and looked briefly at the site and I do like the fact they deal directly with the customer instead of through a dealer network. Didn't look at the ingredients and have no clue what it costs but it is nice to be able to order by the pallet.


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## Connie Sutherland

_"Tracey I hadn't heard of that food until you mentioned it. "_


I hadn't either. I prefer their ingredient list quite a bit over the RC I.L. posted.




eta

But see below for an ingredient warning


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## Ariel Peldunas

A question for the nutritional experts ...

I see the Inukshuk has Menadione Sodium Bisufite Complex. I've read bad things about this ingredient. Is there evidence to support the claims that it causes liver damage and other health issues?


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## Connie Sutherland

Ariel Peldunas said:


> A question for the nutritional experts ...
> 
> I see the Inukshuk has Menadione Sodium Bisufite Complex. I've read bad things about this ingredient. Is there evidence to support the claims that it causes liver damage and other health issues?


I missed that, looking only at the first few ingredients.

I wouldn't use it.


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## Connie Sutherland

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924604

Section on _Hazards Identification_ includes: _Toxic to kidneys, lungs, liver, mucous membranes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organ damage._


http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/menadione-in-dog-food/


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## Ariel Peldunas

Connie Sutherland said:


> http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924604
> 
> Section on _Hazards Identification_ includes: _Toxic to kidneys, lungs, liver, mucous membranes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organ damage._
> 
> 
> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/menadione-in-dog-food/


Wow! That's a scary MSDS. Do most ingredients have one or is it that dangerous of an ingredient?


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## Britney Pelletier

Ariel Peldunas said:


> Wow! That's a scary MSDS. Do most ingredients have one or is it that dangerous of an ingredient?


It's that dangerous.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients

I have always subscribed pretty wholeheartedly to Mordanna and the stuff she does with her website. Very knowledgeable, very informative. 

Additionally, this is a great article about the lack of necessity of carbohydrates for working dogs.. which is a common misconception. Fat fuels energy in dogs, not carbs. 

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/feeding-the-performance-dog/


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## Ariel Peldunas

Britney Pelletier said:


> It's that dangerous.
> 
> http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione
> 
> http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients
> 
> I have always subscribed pretty wholeheartedly to Mordanna and the stuff she does with her website. Very knowledgeable, very informative.
> 
> Additionally, this is a great article about the lack of necessity of carbohydrates for working dogs.. which is a common misconception. Fat fuels energy in dogs, not carbs.
> 
> http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/feeding-the-performance-dog/


I've seen the first two pieces from The Dog Food Project. I frequent that site and made sure to keep Menadione out of my dogs' diets a while back.

Thanks for the link to the last site. I've always felt a high fat diet wasn't as bad for dogs as some people make it out to be. I've read some articles here and there but that's really a great compilation of a lot of information. I haven't made it through everything, yet, but I'm working on it.

Do you feed just raw, Britney, or do you feed kibble or supplements as well?


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## Maren Bell Jones

Britney Pelletier said:


> =Additionally, this is a great article about the lack of necessity of carbohydrates for working dogs.. which is a common misconception. Fat fuels energy in dogs, not carbs.
> 
> http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/feeding-the-performance-dog/


That's actually not true in almost all cases. It depends heavily on the work the dog is doing. If the dog is doing extremely heavy endurance work, like long distance dog sled races, switching to a very high fat diet to promote fat oxidation is important. For what almost everybody on this forum does (i.e.-protection sport and other performance sport), our dogs are generally working for minutes at a short fast burst and not hours. Like greyhounds, they do better on glycogen metabolism because it takes way too long to switch over to fat oxidation for endurance purposes. I wrote a blog post (well, actually a paper during my nutrition elective rotation) on the subject comparing and contrasting sled dog versus racing greyhound metabolism that you might find interesting. Things like protection sport fall closer on the greyhound metabolism. 

http://workingdogdoc.blogspot.com/2011/07/canine-performance-nutrition-overview.html

One other problem with a very high fat diet is many dogs, including sled dogs, get stress colitis during times of heavy training and competition and the high fat diets don't help this.


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## Shane Woodlief

Kibble is crap! Especially true of royal canin


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## Britney Pelletier

Ariel Peldunas said:


> I've seen the first two pieces from The Dog Food Project. I frequent that site and made sure to keep Menadione out of my dogs' diets a while back.
> 
> Thanks for the link to the last site. I've always felt a high fat diet wasn't as bad for dogs as some people make it out to be. I've read some articles here and there but that's really a great compilation of a lot of information. I haven't made it through everything, yet, but I'm working on it.
> 
> Do you feed just raw, Britney, or do you feed kibble or supplements as well?



I have fed everything from the highest quality kibbles there are, pre-made raw, DIY raw, somewhat mid grade kibbles and even homecooked (thanks to Cruiser and all his issues!) over the past 10 years.. for probably the last year or so, I have fed a 1/2 raw 1/2 kibble combo and have been very happy with the results. I feed Nupro Silver and Salmon Oil as supplements. Occasionally throw in canned tripe, mackerel, etc. 

What do you feed your guys?


Maren - that is a very interesting read.. I'm still not (and never have been) 100% sold that any dogs NEED carbs in their diet.

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/carbohydrates/


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## Brian Anderson

Shane Woodlief said:


> Kibble is crap! Especially true of royal canin


HIGH FIVE ^^ Shane ... HELL YEAH!!! Another preacher spreading the gospel of goodness ....\\/


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## Connie Sutherland

Brian Anderson said:


> HIGH FIVE ^^ Shane ... HELL YEAH!!! Another preacher spreading the gospel of goodness ....\\/



As much of a long-time (and very enthusiastic) raw feeder as I am, the thread is actually about kibble. A few mentions of raw feeding might be enough. 

We don't want to fall into a "cult" of fevered raw feeders; this chases folks away.  (Although I could! :lol: ) Not everyone can (or even wants to) feed raw, and there are very viable commercial options.

And just a quick note, IMHO: an unbalanced, random raw diet (like the infamous no-calcium ground-beef diet, which yes, people DO, and think they are somehow "helping" a growing puppy) is far worse than the crappiest kibble there is.

Even this post of mine really belongs in a different thread. :lol:


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## Erin Suggett

Shane Woodlief said:


> Kibble is crap! Especially true of royal canin


Depending on what kibble you feed, really. 

I feed Orijen, which has been noted as the closest thing to raw in kibble form. I've tried raw before. Wasn't bad... but had some dogs that turned their nose to it. I've been extremely happy with Orijen and so have my dogs. Not knocking raw...just making a case for some of the quality kibbles _that_ _are_ out there.


And for the record, I fed the Royal Canin 4800 sometime back in 2007 for a while. It was okay, but I didn't see much of a difference in the overall performance/endurance of any of my dogs...all Malinois. So I shelved it. I also wasn't as "educated" on the certain kibbles that were out there at the time either. 

Orijen is my food...and I'm stickin' to it!!


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## Shane Woodlief

Erin Suggett said:


> Depending on what kibble you feed, really.
> 
> I feed Orijen, which has been noted as the closest thing to raw in kibble form. I've tried raw before. Wasn't bad... but had some dogs that turned their nose to it. I've been extremely happy with Orijen and so have my dogs. Not knocking raw...just making a case for some of the quality kibbles _that_ _are_ out there.
> 
> 
> And for the record, I fed the Royal Canin 4800 sometime back in 2007 for a while. It was okay, but I didn't see much of a difference in the overall performance/endurance of any of my dogs...all Malinois. So I shelved it. I also wasn't as "educated" on the certain kibbles that were out there at the time either.
> 
> Orijen is my food...and I'm stickin' to it!!


No I am not going to derail the thread but I can assure you that Origin can in no way compare to raw other than it doesn't have grain. I feed raw chicken carcass and all I can say is that proof is in the pudding! FYI I used to feed origen to (till they wanted me to mortgage my house for a bag of it!) - night and day difference. 

Kibble is crap! Sorry Connie fell into my cultic tendencies hahahahahah


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## Brian Anderson

Connie Sutherland said:


> As much of a long-time (and very enthusiastic) raw feeder as I am, the thread is actually about kibble. A few mentions of raw feeding might be enough.
> 
> We don't want to fall into a "cult" of fevered raw feeders; this chases folks away.  (Although I could! :lol: ) Not everyone can (or even wants to) feed raw, and there are very viable commercial options.
> 
> And just a quick note, IMHO: an unbalanced, random raw diet (like the infamous no-calcium ground-beef diet, which yes, people DO, and think they are somehow "helping" a growing puppy) is far worse than the crappiest kibble there is.
> 
> Even this post of mine really belongs in a different thread. :lol:


*jumping* off the soap box... your right Connie... my apologies to the OP...was in no way trying to hijack your thread. Im just super enthusiastic about my results with the meat.


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## Connie Sutherland

Are you two wearing some kind of saffron color robes? Scepters?

Got any more?

:lol: :lol:


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## Shane Woodlief

ahhahahahaha


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## Maren Bell Jones

Britney Pelletier said:


> Maren - that is a very interesting read.. I'm still not (and never have been) 100% sold that any dogs NEED carbs in their diet.
> 
> http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/carbohydrates/


Gestating and lactating females do. That and the fact that some dogs (my own included) do better with some grain in their diet. Wild canids also consume fruits, veggies, grasses (my female Malinois thinks she's part cow in the early spring), and even a small amount of grain in small prey eaten whole. Unless you are also giving a supplement from a reliable manufacturer, anyone who says a fruit/veggie mix is optional for a raw fed dog is wrong. There. I said it. :lol: Apparently I also need to say it in a blog or website or book for it to be true. ;-) Besides, there is so many wonderful nutrients in fruits and veggies that are just not found in meat and bone. And very very few raw feeders I know actually feeds whole raw prey (like whole rabbits or chickens with fur and feathers and all), so to me, feeding a bunch of chicken backs or chicken thighs with some occasional liver thrown in there is not whole prey model as many make it out to be and is no more "natural" to a dog than kibble.

Incidentally, I am curious where exactly Dr. Lew Olson got her PhD in "natural nutrition." :-k


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## Brian McQuain

Maren Bell Jones said:


> And very very few raw feeders I know actually feeds whole raw prey (like whole rabbits or chickens with fur and feathers and all)...


 
Mine love to supplement their diets with whole rabbits and quail. Fur, feathers and all...yum


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## Maren Bell Jones

Shane Woodlief said:


> No I am not going to derail the thread but I can assure you that Origin can in no way compare to raw other than it doesn't have grain. I feed raw chicken carcass and all I can say is that proof is in the pudding! FYI I used to feed origen to (till they wanted me to mortgage my house for a bag of it!) - night and day difference.
> 
> Kibble is crap! Sorry Connie fell into my cultic tendencies hahahahahah


My issue with Orijen is they throw eleventy bajillion "botanicals" and other minor ingredients into it (Nature's Variety is an even worse offender...quail eggs? Really?). So the problem is that if your dog has a problem with that food, you have no idea if it was the chicken or the peppermint leaf.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Brian McQuain said:


> Mine love to supplement their diets with whole rabbits and quail. Fur, feathers and all...yum


Are those ones you provide or ones they provide? :lol: I was at the reptile expo in St. Louis two weekends ago and I bought a bunch of frozen rats for my snake from Rodent Pro. I almost thought about buying some whole rabbits for the dogs and cats, but they were out. I offered a rat to the dogs a couple years back. No takers. I am thinking about doing backyard chickens this year. Might try that...


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## Connie Sutherland

_
" .... anyone who says a fruit/veggie mix is optional for a raw fed dog is wrong. There. I said it."_

I say it too. I have said it a hundred times and I will keep saying it. "Prey model" does NOT mean neat trays of poultry RMBs and nothing else. Wild canids eat small prey in its entirety and gray wolves even eat tender ferns and fallen berries besides. To withhold all produce is to withhold something that the canid on his own would eat. The dog cannot instinctively correct our mistakes by making a trip to the store, and most dogs these days cannot even do it by scarfing down a few barn rodents, GI system and all.

That has been covered here in huge detail here, even including details from the Gray Wolf Project, many times.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Plus we now know how many awesome nutrients there are in the "super foods" like blueberries and spinach. And the dogs love it, to be honest.


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## Brian McQuain

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Are those ones you provide or ones they provide? :lol: I was at the reptile expo in St. Louis two weekends ago and I bought a bunch of frozen rats for my snake from Rodent Pro. I almost thought about buying some whole rabbits for the dogs and cats, but they were out. I offered a rat to the dogs a couple years back. No takers. I am thinking about doing backyard chickens this year. Might try that...


 
Oh, they take care of it themselves, little jerks. My wife LOVES grabbing half eaten creatures out of their gullet. My schnauzer took out the fattest mouse Ive ever seen last night, as a matter of fact.


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## Connie Sutherland

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Plus we now know how many awesome nutrients there are in the "super foods" like blueberries and spinach. And the dogs love it, to be honest.



Blueberries are, in fact, a food that wild canids like gray wolves have been filmed eating.

They're low in sugar and very high in anthocyanin antioxidants and low on the glycemic index. They have even been researched for the tolerance to freezing of their anthocyanin concentrations (very tolerant).

IOW, blueberries are a year-round storehouse of "super nutrition."

I buy them at the farmers' market in summer and freeze them, spread out, then dump into freezer bags loose, rather than clumped together.

I alternate greens, using even celery tops and zucchini guts and lots of other very cheap, very readily available stuff.

IMO., produce, like organ meat, is a very small but not optional part of a raw diet. JMO!


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## Britney Pelletier

For the record, I never mentioned anything about fruits and veggies needing to be omitted from a raw diet.. I think they offer a great variety of nutritional benefits. Some people choose to feed them, some don't.

I also know some dogs seem to benefit from the inclusion of grain in their diet, but I still don't think that means they need them.. nor do I think a dog occasionally grazing means it's getting something of nutritional value from it.


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## Connie Sutherland

Green tripe would be a top choice (IMO) to provide in order to move closer to replicating a true "prey model" diet.

(It's correct that there has been no minimum requirement of starch carbs found or set for canids. At least, as far as I know.)


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## Connie Sutherland

Britney Pelletier said:


> For the record, I never mentioned anything about fruits and veggies needing to be omitted from a raw diet..


Speaking for myself, I was making a general comment about produce in a raw diet. 

When people say "carbs," I usually assume, rightly or wrongly, that they mean starchy carbs .... so my produce post would not have been in response to your post (which I had to go back and find) at all -- or, in fact, any post except Maren's mention of veg/fruit produce in a raw diet. 





Britney Pelletier said:


> .... fruits and veggies .... I think they offer a great variety of nutritional benefits. ...


Me too!


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## Maren Bell Jones

Britney Pelletier said:


> For the record, I never mentioned anything about fruits and veggies needing to be omitted from a raw diet.. I think they offer a great variety of nutritional benefits. Some people choose to feed them, some don't.
> 
> I also know some dogs seem to benefit from the inclusion of grain in their diet, but I still don't think that means they need them.. nor do I think a dog occasionally grazing means it's getting something of nutritional value from it.


I know you didn't, but in the first article you mentioned, she mentions it here:



> Vegetables (*optional*, pulped, pulverized or steamed):
> Broccoli
> Dark leafy greens
> Celery
> Zucchini
> Cabbage


http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/feeding-the-performance-dog/

I do think that dogs and wild canids are getting something out of eating certain things, even if they don't derive many nutrients from it. An example is eating some of the fur and feathers of whole prey as well as eating grasses or leaves. The idea goes that by ingesting these things, even if they don't get much nutrition per se out of them, that the hide would wrap around and cushion the bones in the diet, helping larger bone shards that don't digest well pass through. It's kind of a just so story, but sounds reasonable at least. :smile:


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