# The K-9 BSD -2 Odor Detection



## Stuart Stuart (Dec 25, 2009)

Has anyone used this device in odor detection if so what are your thoughts?
http://acek9.com/bsd/bsd.htm


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

it is like cheating. there is no faster way to get a dog started on odor with a rock solid focus for the target odor in my opinion.
there may be better ways to train, but there are no easier ways for one person to start a dog.
the uses of the BSD are endless.........boxes, bags, cars, walls, you can even bury it under the ground and reward through loose sand. I have three of them and even though i dont do much training on target odor, I have never had a dog with the correct drives that did not pick this system up in a few minutes.


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## Stuart Stuart (Dec 25, 2009)

This is my first working dog and I need all of the extra help I can get. I am looking for away not to make so many mistakes.


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## Barry Connell (Jul 25, 2010)

Like Mike said, they work great. I just wish I was the guy that perfected it!!!! Forever police dog trainers have known that delivering "at source" was the key...


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

have one... works great. I think you can buy the wooden boxes now... don't get the plastic tubs, they get knocked over at THE WORST training moments.


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

We have 2 of them. The absolute easiest way to teach the alert. It dramatically lowers the chance of human delivery and timing errors.


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## Rox Brummer (Jul 7, 2009)

I have been looking at getting one of these. The scent work I am doing is training dogs to find biological samples (nests, scats, live animals, whatever the researcher wants) in the bush. My concern is that the smell of the BSD itself might start to become what the dog picks up on, as it will be very out of place in the bush. Do you think this will be a problem, and is there a way round it?


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Rox Brummer said:


> I have been looking at getting one of these. The scent work I am doing is training dogs to find biological samples (nests, scats, live animals, whatever the researcher wants) in the bush. My concern is that the smell of the BSD itself might start to become what the dog picks up on, as it will be very out of place in the bush. Do you think this will be a problem, and is there a way round it?


Not if you set up a good training program with some odor conflict training. TBH i have yet to see a dog run into a problem using the BSD.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Rox Brummer said:


> I have been looking at getting one of these. The scent work I am doing is training dogs to find biological samples (nests, scats, live animals, whatever the researcher wants) in the bush. My concern is that the smell of the BSD itself might start to become what the dog picks up on, as it will be very out of place in the bush. Do you think this will be a problem, and is there a way round it?


just proof them off the odor of the device itself, like you would with any other distractor odor.
I have three of these things and have never had a dog alert to the device by itself.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Have you guys used this device for anything else outside of narc detection? The BSD www shows a few different things that the BSD can help a handler train. http://www.k-9bsd.com/training_tips_marking.htm I'd be interested to hear feedback on blind searches and other uses like marking successful jumps and the like.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Have you guys used this device for anything else outside of narc detection? The BSD www shows a few different things that the BSD can help a handler train. http://www.k-9bsd.com/training_tips_marking.htm I'd be interested to hear feedback on blind searches and other uses like marking successful jumps and the like.


 
Geoff, I have seen it used for various things in training, this device is best used in my opinion when you are trying to do it all by yourself and don't have the additional help all the time. This is simply a tool just like an e-collar, it is not a substitue for the basic training and handler development.


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Stuart Stuart said:


> Has anyone used this device in odor detection if so what are your thoughts?
> http://acek9.com/bsd/bsd.htm



I have. 

I like them better than using the wall, or boxes.

Super fast, very on point. 

Worth the money.


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> Have you guys used this device for anything else outside of narc detection? The BSD www shows a few different things that the BSD can help a handler train. http://www.k-9bsd.com/training_tips_marking.htm I'd be interested to hear feedback on blind searches and other uses like marking successful jumps and the like.



Bart Bellon uses devices like this for toy delivery, different company however.

Works like a charm. 

We use them a lot too.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I find it interesting that the bark and hold there is a very audible difference in the dogs timbre of bark in the video of the BSD-1 in the blind vs the helper in the blind. Looks workable for training the gist of the exercise without a helper though. 

I'm more interested in working jumps though in my grand scheme of things. Especially the Ring long jump as it is so hard to get the timing right with the right amount of motivation. Right now I throw a ball on a string but it is a PITA to time the throw as you have to throw it before the dog launches to pull out the most motivation, but you don't want to reward the dog touching the key which you never know until after you've thrown the ball.

I like the audible click/pop of the device as well a clicker trained dog will clue in quick, for Odor, Jumps or OB like the send away.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> Bart Bellon uses devices like this for toy delivery, different company however.
> 
> Works like a charm.
> 
> We use them a lot too.


Yup very true you can uses peice of copper pipe, PVC, Hydraulic hose. I have done all and seen all being done. Just make sure the pipe is cut below the BSD opening or that of the box / wall etc.... Kinda would be a give away if they were to long LOL.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I have parts and pieces now I need to install them together. I have a remote and parts of the remote control car. I have the PVC pipe and the box that's made in the order on randy Hares' boxes. This will do the same thing. Stuart we'll get together and I'll show it to you. So far, No money involved. I do however have a mad grandson.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

This looks like a cool toy and if money were no object I'd buy a couple.
How does this work for scent work? I thought you needed 4-6 boxes or containers exactly the same except for the target odor? How do you have the same background odor if the container with the target odor also contains this contraption of metal and plastic and lubricant etc. ?
Doesn't it smell "different" even if you didn't add any target odor?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> This looks like a cool toy and if money were no object I'd buy a couple.
> How does this work for scent work? I thought you needed 4-6 boxes or containers exactly the same except for the target odor? How do you have the same background odor if the container with the target odor also contains this contraption of metal and plastic and lubricant etc. ?
> Doesn't it smell "different" even if you didn't add any target odor?


That's what I was thinking too Thomas. I'm far from an expert but I love to play the search game with my dog all the time with either a ball and frisbee by throwing it into the bush and/or hiding it in fun places. Then I take her out of the car and give her the "find it" command. She will range (hunt) for it air scenting until she she gets into the scent cone and zero in on it like gangbusters. We did a variation of this game when we visited Konnie last year in CT we had a chance to go up on their USAR/FEMA rubble pile and hid the frisbee in multiple random places. 

It was a real windy day and one of my shots with the frisbee went into a window on the bus that they have on the rubble. The bus is perched funny and the way the wind blew that day the scent was rolled under the bus so she kept going there but the frisbee was inside the bus. So if she was trained to alert yeah she found it as she was following the scent of the item to source, but it was a dead end. She ended up climbing a skid that Konnie set up for her to help her so she climbed into and out the broken window of the bus to retrieve her frisbee, fun times! 

So I'm sure that any toy or device that has been handled by anyone or carried previously by a dog has some recognizable odor, any dog worth its salt will pick up on that. So how could you be sure that indeed the dog is picking up the dope or explosive odor or just the scent of the device and reward toy unless you used more than one device or facsimile? 

I'm sure experienced handlers who use this tool come across this scenario, plan for it and have to come up with training solutions for it. I'd love to hear their experiences.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

This is a training tool and it don't end here. This is a stepping stone to real hides. There is more to train after this or any other training device. They must proof on real hides. 

The other odors that they will smell in training won't be a constant. The narcotics or explosives or other ordor will and they learn that this is the odor to alert on.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Doesn't it smell "different" even if you didn't add any target odor?


Thomas I expect this might be where genuine discrimination comes in to play? Or perhaps these units are only used for a relatively brief period of time to prevent that type of association. Mike, I think, mentioned he has more than one. He might be able to comment on whether or not he's had dogs hit on the actual device rather than the target odor. So far I haven't felt a need to try one of these devices out but this post has piqued my interest a bit. My dog doesn't work for toy rewards and I don't know if this object works with food, I suppose it might depending upon what you use.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Having built and used a couple of different devices myself, and had them used by other folks, I really like the design of the BSD better than what I have come up with, in most instances. 

As with anything in training, the BSD can create a cue. Be it smell or visual, the dogs learn in context, and it's OUR job to make sure that the end result is the target odor cueing the response, and nothing else. My personal preference is to use it for the alert, after the dog knows odor pretty well. I have used it mainly for that, or cleaning up a response that has gotten weak from handler error, or a weak foundation.

I haven't found any delivery method yet that you don't have to proof the dog off of when they are finished. Whether it be towels, PVC, canvas narc bags, etc...and thus far I haven't seen or heard of a high instance of false alerts from dogs trained on the BSD. 

Great tool!!


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## Rik Wolterbeek (Jul 19, 2009)

The BSD is about as good as it gets for passive alert detection training. It is a modernisation of the old 4 boxes military style passive alert training. When I started to work in 2001 right after 9/11 for a company in FL training EDD we used the 4 boxes whick all of them had besides the "reward" hole a whole cut on one side big enough to put your hand through. Through that hole on the side the PR was delivered. With a friend I designed an automatic delivery system that was based on the electronics of a RC car and a garage door opener. First time we tried it the ball popped up 50 feet. I told my friend to try to get that thing patented. He never did,too bad for him


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

they work great used both the boxes and the wall dogs love it


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

I have one and love it........... took all of 3 sesions for the new dog to understand. Find odor sit bang reward.
You do have to proof of it like anything but its great for starting and firming up the focus and alert.


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## Lamar Blackmor (Aug 1, 2010)

great for training the send out.


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

Here is a short video of the BSD in action. The time of the reward can be given at any second. Plus, the intencaty of the stare it creates is powerful!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c5ypAK25Jc&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I have been accused by the inventor of the BSD of posting bad/negative comments about his product. This, before I had ever seen one in real life. I've always felt it was a great tool the minute I saw an advertisement for the product and cannot imagine ever saying anything negative about it. I have seen it used in real training and it is a great training tool. Just thought I'd share.


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