# How come more people don't do the AD?



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Just curious...how come more people who do Schutzhund don't bike the AD?


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Just curious...how come more people who do Schutzhund don't bike the AD?


Lazy? 
It is a requirement to have the AD if you want to breed your German Shepherd the SV/USA way 
I guess if you want another abbreviation behind your dog name you could do it.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Yeah, I know...I did it with Zoso a little over 2 years ago for a fun "title" and to support our old club with the entry fee. Was fun, I may have to drive up to Omaha in April to do it with Fawkes. I just don't see even a lot of Schutzhund people seem to do it, or so it seems, just wondered why not.


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

It takes a long time to do (at least 2 hours - the AD we did at our December trial took almost 4!), so that takes away from the number of entries you can have for the other events that day, and finding an appropriate place to do it is probably also an issue. 

It also takes quite a while to get the handler in good enough shape to allow the dog to maintain a trot! #-oI know I couldn't do one; my knees would give out on me. I'd have to get someone else to ride for me.


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I plan on doing one with Judge in the summer. I've blown an ACL in high school and was in a wheelchair for 6 months....but I'll be damned to let someone else do it for me. It's gonna suck and hurt BUT I'll wear my knee brace and bear it. 

I don't know why people don't but I suspect that it's laziness or just no want/desire to do it. Me...well, I want all the titles I can get.  

Courtney


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'd love to do an AD but I'm lazy and bicycle seats hurt my bony old ass!


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I wanted to do it with my last dog. The Boxer Club were running one but I was told my dog was too old - he was 8 and used to biking. The age limit was 6 yrs then. I argued that he was fit but they were adamant.

I've since seen the limits are now 16 months - 10 years so there's time yet for these two.


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

LOL - i wrote an article for 2 of my breed's publications asking that exact same question. considering the history of the 'staf, it seems like a fitting psuedo-breed test to me. not surprisingly, haven't gotten much in the way of enthusiastic response. 

i'll be running my second AD in march with a bitch that's downright scary-fast. she pulls into her prong collar on the bike just as hard as the harness. for the first time in my life, i swallowed my pride and got a bike helmet!


----------



## Marie Miller (Jan 16, 2008)

I live in Northern California and the hard part for us is space to practice. There are no back dirt roads to ride on & property owners are very protective of thier land and most times have their property fenced off. Even if you try to work on road, I worry about getting hit from cars with the amount of traffic on the roads. Clubs in my area don't even offer it because their wouldln't be any entries.


----------



## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

I've done it...I'm always more worried about me biking, the dogs always do great


----------



## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> It takes a long time to do (at least 2 hours - the AD we did at our December trial took almost 4!), so that takes away from the number of entries you can have for the other events that day, and finding an appropriate place to do it is probably also an issue.
> 
> It also takes quite a while to get the handler in good enough shape to allow the dog to maintain a trot! #-oI know I couldn't do one; my knees would give out on me. I'd have to get someone else to ride for me.


 
I'm surprised any judge would pass any dog that took 4 hours for the AD. I think the rules state the pace must be somewhere between 8 and 12 miles an hour. Even accounting for the 20 minute breaks it should only take a couple hours. You could walk it relatively slowly and easily in 4 hours.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Trish Campbell said:


> I've done it...I'm always more worried about me biking, the dogs always do great


We almost did our AD this August but Sasha tweaked her paw pads 3 days before running on pavement during training. I was going to have a friend handle her with the bike. How I usually train her is with a sled harness and scooter. She did fine with the bike with Joe but we made the mistake of doing a bunch of KM and she was kept running on the paved sidewalk so she was crabbing a bit on the return leg and then when we pulled her out of the crate when we got home she was limping. 

We were lucky that she recovered enough to do be able to do her BH, to bad about the AD as it would have been done on a dirt horse track and so within grasp but I didn't want to run her and aggravate her paws again and then have been DQed. We probably won't get another chance to do a AD until next fall in my area. So we missed the boat on that one.


----------



## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

HAHA what? no sorry i can barely ride my bike for 20 minutes (that it takes to get to class) and I only just learned how to ride a bike. I'm sure I can't be the only who didn't know how to ride a bike so I would never have done that bit anyway.


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I was going to do an AD in the fall but our trial was cancelled at the last moment. 

For me, finding somewhere safe to introduce my dog to the bike and get going was the hardest part... then finding a safe route to train on. I ended up picking a 5 km route near my house that was pretty good, but I was still looking out for traffic and other distractions... squirrels, cats, other dogs.

The other part is that falling off your bicycle when your dog turns around to check out the little mop dog that has come out of nowhere and is trying to bite him in the ass, really, really hurts. 

I was really surprised at how much Ronan seemed to like the bicycle. Pulled a bit at first, but when I let him off leash for a bit along the railway tracks, suddenly he snapped into place beside me. I leashed him back up again at the road and we just cruised for the rest of the ride. Came home, picked up his ball in the yard and was ready to play like we'd been around the block for a stroll. 

AD next spring, hopefully.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Here are some tips for you fatties that cannot do 12 miles on a bike.

1, Stop eating.

2, Actually get out of the house.

3, Realize that the 4 times you throw the ball in the backyard for the dog is not enough.

4, No one likes fat people, we have to fake it

5, And this is important. Go and get that bungee looking leash from kong. It will save your ass a bunch of mishaps.


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Amy Swaby said:


> HAHA what? no sorry i can barely ride my bike for 20 minutes (that it takes to get to class) and I only just learned how to ride a bike. I'm sure I can't be the only who didn't know how to ride a bike so I would never have done that bit anyway.


you don't know how to ride bike? I can't ride my bike anymore but that's because I got my pelvis cracked from playing football in school and the pain gets a little harsh after 10min on those little seats. Don't they have xbox or wii games that teach this stuff?:-k

Wow- I can't imagine somebody growing up and not doing jumps and wheelies if only to impress your buds


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Here are some tips for you fatties that cannot do 12 miles on a bike.
> 
> 1, Stop eating.
> 
> ...


 

LOL - which leash is that? i've never seen it...


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

kristin tresidder said:


> LOL - which leash is that? i've never seen it...



I'd like to know because I should probably get one... although I toss the ball more like 40 times. True fatties use a laser pointer.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Oh yeah, that's for me. Peddle around for hours while my dog runs himself into the ground. Nope. And yes, most are lazy or don't have the physical health to do it. I'd rather watch paint dry!!!!


----------



## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

Heh! I'm not a fatty! lol!

I was ahead of the 60 something guy and his dog   I think Harley would have pulled me if it got bad. 

In all seriousness though, I roadworked her a bit to get her used to the bike, harden her pads. That's it, good working structure goes along way.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

If I was going to try to get a breed survey on a dog, of course he would have to get an AD, but barring that, I see it as pretty much pointless, and as Howard said, less interesting than watching paint dry.


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> as Howard said, less interesting than watching paint dry.



I think I disagree, if you had a 200lbs rottie and a 350lbs handler things could get pretty interesting within the first 1/4 mile:-k


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> I think I disagree, if you had a 200lbs rottie and a 350lbs handler things could get pretty interesting within the first 1/4 mile:-k


Interesting and profitable. We can lay odds and take bets on which will collapse first.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't see it as being pointless as it's good for distraction training, focus, and making sure the dog is relatively sound physically. It also depends on where they do it. We did a nice scenic ride on the Katy Trail when we did ours when the leaves were changing and it sometimes overlooked the river. But one of our club members once did it on a quarter mile track. Ugh, that wold be about the most boring thing ever. [-(


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Keeping the dog in great shape can make a huge difference on his field performance. By the end of that 10 min field performance is really hard to see all the dog's that have their tongues hanging out from exhaustion.

Trish, there's a very good reason that 60 + yr old man was behind you. Best view in the AD! :-\" :-\" 
Us old farts ain't as dumb as we look! :wink:


----------



## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Keeping the dog in great shape can make a huge difference on his field performance. By the end of that 10 min field performance is really hard to see all the dog's that have their tongues hanging out from exhaustion.
> 
> Trish, there's a very good reason that 60 + yr old man was behind you. Best view in the AD! :-\" :-\"
> Us old farts ain't as dumb as we look! :wink:


LMAO!!!


----------



## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

I know I'm out of shape, sorry but not everyone has the time to go running about. Animation and game design isn't exactly something that can be done in a short span of time or outside. I wake up go to class, come home walk the dogs, do training, do homework and go to sleep. I walk my dogs every day, and ride my bike to class...doesn't help. I eat three small meals a day, still chubby. Not everyone has a high metabolism, I'm built like an island woman should be and my fat backside hates normal bike saddles. :lol:

And yup I only just learned how to ride a bike this summer you don't ride bikes in The Bahamas unless you want to get run over. I don't drive either so it's not like i sit in a car driving everywhere. Dunno was never impressed by the kids who could do wheelies I was too busy studying ants, snakes and whatever else. :grin:


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

oh I know I'm out of shape too, but I track a few times a week, train every day, hike 8 miles 3-5 days a week get in a few sessions of ball throwing (not in the back yard) and then there is the swimming. I don't need to do an AD to figure out my dog is in pretty good shape.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i think if i had the opportunity, regardless of breed survey, it'd be fun to do. esp is i could do it horseback vs on a bike (ESPECIALLY on a TWH). 

i can ride, the dog can do what he's supposed to do. any problems with that in the regs? i mean, it's a "dog" test, not a "handler" test, right? has anyone ever even thought of this (surely i'm not the first)??


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

ann freier said:


> i think if i had the opportunity, regardless of breed survey, it'd be fun to do. esp is i could do it horseback vs on a bike (ESPECIALLY on a TWH).
> 
> i can ride, the dog can do what he's supposed to do. any problems with that in the regs? i mean, it's a "dog" test, not a "handler" test, right? has anyone ever even thought of this (surely i'm not the first)??


 
Don't know if it still exists but the Dalmation folks had a version of it where the dog ran either alonside a horse and rider or behind a carrage.


----------



## Lisa Preston (Aug 21, 2008)

RH.
RH.
RH.
Vastly more interesting than the AD (7.4 mph fo r12.4 m). I'm with folks who'd do the AD only if required for some other reason, like breeding.
And if I did an AD, I wouldn't bike it, I'd run it.That would be a tough run for me. Or horse if we were allowed to go backcountry, but it's required to be on lead, which I could do from the pony, but wouldn't want to.

I run my pooch around 40m/week. Makes no sense to me to AD him for grins, but if I just wanted to add a title/ pay an entry fee to support a club, I'd RH him:
Conditioning (10k/ 70 min--verr generous-hopefully, we'd be done under 50 min which is no great shakes of a time)-plus the rules so nada about on lead; 
tracking w/ distractions inc fire; 
OB w/ distractions.


----------



## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Lisa Preston said:


> RH.
> RH.
> RH.
> Vastly more interesting than the AD (7.4 mph fo r12.4 m). I'm with folks who'd do the AD only if required for some other reason, like breeding.
> ...


I wanted to run with my dog for his AD. I thought we would be allowed to do that. That's how we practiced. On the day of the trial, the judge said I HAD to bike beside him. We took about 15 minutes before the trial to practice getting him used to the bike. That was the first time we had tried it with me on the bike. We passed just fine.


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

If you (fig.) can run at a fast enough pace to keep your dog at a nice trot for 12 miles, my hat goes off to you. :-o


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

to me, part of what makes the AD interesting, is not the one run itself, but seeing whether the dog can hold up to the conditioning process. the test itself is not that rigorous with the breaks provided. any dog that cannot cool down within that period, and attack the next 4-5 miles and then 3 miles like he's just setting out, probably should be at the vet, or at least on his way to the feed store to get a diet food. with the basic shape that i keep my stafs in, i am confident that any one of them could probably be AD ready within a week. 

however, if you're going to actually train your dog for the test, that will show you some things about him. are his pads genetically tough enough to handle the roadwork, or are they soft & crack/wear easily? can he handle distance running each day without getting sore or going lame? can he run in the heat or does he get worn out? etc & etc...


----------



## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> If you (fig.) can run at a fast enough pace to keep your dog at a nice trot for 12 miles, my hat goes off to you. :-o


We were doing a little over 8 miles an hour during practice. That was a couple years ago. Couldn't keep that pace up today for that long, but we still run a lot. My times for my own half-marathons have _slightly_ improved each year for the last 3 years though. To actually accomplish the AD, I don't think the dog has to run the whole 12 in practice. As soon as we got to the point where he could run 5 miles and recover quickly, then another couple miles without straining, we then trialed for the AD. That was the suggested training regimen from the breeder. Since you have 20 minute breaks, then as long as the dog recovers real good after the 1st 5, then you should be set to trial. My boy was still ahead of me and ready to go at the end, and the handful of other dogs that finished were being drug by the owners for the last couple miles.


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

The dogs that did the AD at our trial didn't get 20min breaks. I think they got about 10-15min and they were back at it. Neither of them had any issues with being winded or whatever. Of course it was FREEZING and there were wind gusts up to 50mph, too, so the handlers were just trying to get through!


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The reason most dogs are pulled from the AD is bad feet. Endurance isn't all that big a deal if the dog is in any sort of good shape.


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I'd do it, but I'm lazy! :lol:

I run my dogs with the bike for exercise, average 2-3 x per week. I use a pinch collar and short leash for this, because if I'm going down from something the dog does, the dog can damn well remember not to do that again. Candy has crashed me twice (once thinking to fence-fight, once over roadkill rat), but no one else has yet. I do train for it, to teach the dog where to be and what to do, and I start while they are puppies at first walking with the bike down the alley. Then low speed and short distances to handle distractions. After we've moved up to trotting at a pretty good clip, the dog knows to stay with me and pay attention to the wheels or else...

Cyko can run me to ground, bike an all, and still want to play bitework afterwards. Just for kicks one time I trotted him for about 2 hours, non stop, and took him to the park for a bit of a rest - and he was still pushing me to play. Mals are cool dogs. 

Candy can do it too, I've been running her for a long time, but she likes to gallop so she pulls me at first and then burns out quicker. Inka is too neurotic to be really trustworthy with a bike.

The others I don't run so much or so long, they're still young.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Poor feet washed a buttload of dogs from service in WW2. Still a big problem today. Maybe the AD should be mandatory.


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I'm old, a smoker, have bad knees and definitely not at a "fighting weight" anymore...and I did the AD with my boy at the end of this past summer. I had a good time, thanks mainly to the other teams entertaining me along the way. Yes, I was one of the silly ones who actually trained for it with him 3 or 4 times a week... for the 6 weeks beforehand. Not that he was not in shape with all the swimming and beach running he does .....but 99% of his time is spent on grass, sand, carpet or hardwood and I wanted to see if his pads would hold up on the hard surface he would be running on at the trial. They do make replacement bike seats that are wide and comfortable:wink: I mean really....how hard is it to sit on your butt and peddle a couple of times (mainly, going up hill) while your dog does most of the work?:roll: I had a good time despite all the traffic (we did it on a curvey stretch of highway), stray dogs and rude drivers....was fun to lap the GSD's and their handlers:mrgreen: Kept hearing about the turtle and the hare from the judge and other participants......but that fable did not play itself out that day 

One of the GSD handlers who was over 50 years old and had never even walked his dog next to a bike let alone trotted him along a fairly busy highway had no problems either after the first 1/4 mile of getting his dog to understand what was required (position and pace). 

The hardest part of the training was getting my boy usta me picking up his feet for inspection with a stranger standing close behind him/me....that took more time then anything. Our breaks were just long enough for the judge to check his feet and for me to smoke a cigarette at the same time


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I smoke while riding.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Weight wise, I was a hell of a lot thinner when I smoked. When I quit I gained 40lbs and I can't seem to get rid of most of it which is crazy cause I do a lot of stuff. Unfortunately I am too mentally ](*,) weak to do table pushaways fast enough anymore.


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Weight wise, I was a hell of a lot thinner when I smoked. When I quit I gained 40lbs and I can't seem to get rid of most of it which is crazy cause I do a lot of stuff. Unfortunately I am too mentally ](*,) weak to do table pushaways fast enough anymore.


I'm not coordinated enough to smoke and bike thank goodness, but I *can* still chew gum and walk. 

Susan, I envy you.....at least you were mentally strong enough to kick the nasty nicotine addiction. =D> 

As for the AD....yeah it takes time, but I figure if a club is willing to offer it and there is at least one other entry why not do it...takes almost as long with one AD entry as it does with five. The upside is the host club may actually break even hosting the trial with more entries.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

No, no mental strength. I never smoked in my house, only outside. I had to have my ankle fused and there were complications, so I totally house bound from Sept thru Jan a couple years ago. I was only allowed upright with a walker on one leg to the john, then back to bed, for about 5 months. I had no choice in the matter.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I smoke while riding.


I ride while smoking


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I talk on the cell, and smoke, as well as eat and drink.

I am getting the new frankenstein out of the shop tomorrow, cannot wait to take it out. It has been a few months since frankenstein sr got stolen, so I imagine it will be pathetic. Still could do 12 miles at a dogs pace real easy.

If you ride a bike for a few years, there is a disconect and the legs just go by themselves. Quite nice. Now if I could just figure out how to keep the dang thing from getting stolen.


----------



## Jaana Aadamsoo (Dec 5, 2008)

A dog might need training to run the AD but I don´t personally know anyone that can´t bike that distance. It´s a breeze. When I did AD with Veeda we and my friend with her dobermann were the life of the party. The rotties, GSDs and a terv politely trotting alongside of the bike while we had our dogs dragging like their life depended on it. The other dog had never run beside a bike without a Springer and is a real hot-head. The judge demanded that the dogs have to be on a leash with a fur-saver to evaluate the handlers control over the dog #-oBut despite the few incidents our dogs calmed down about 3-4 km before finish (that is after 16-17 km). I was afraid that Veeda will burn herself out not with the running but trying to eat the hairy and funny looking dogs trotting near but after a 10 minute break after the test she smelled a hotdog bit and was as ready as ever to do OB in the end. It was anything but boring. In fact it was the most exciting test I have ever witnessed


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Got Frankenbike out of the shop, now the little ****ers are gonna pay for all that whining. It is cold enough to run them retarded. MUUUUUUUHA HA HA HA MMMMUUUUUUUUUUUUUHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA !


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Jaana, I don't know diddly about the terrain where you live, but I invite you to come to Western North Carolina, USA and bike 12 miles (dog or no!) and still say it is a breeze! :lol:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So you are saying that it is the terrain, and not physical condition that keeps people from doing the AD there ??


----------



## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

You don't need a level stretch 12 miles long. A mile stretch would be plenty. Just get to the point where you can bike it with the dog 5 times. On the day of our trial, we only had about a half-mile stretch close to the trial grounds, so we just kept circling and repeating it.


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff, it sure don't help! :lol:


Last spring, our trial's AD was done at a local park, round and round the parking lot and the road that goes through the park, because it was pouring down rain. It wasn't all completely level, but it was all asphalt. In December, we had it at a sod field, which was completely flat. The 'course' was an out and back, 1 mile total, around the edge of where the sod is planted. It didn't LOOK bad, and it was supposed to have had a 'service road' for them to ride on, but it didn't. We'd had quite a bit of rain during the week and a half earlier, and the ground was frozen. Riding on frozen mud is not fun, or terribly easy. All the riders had a hard time of it, and several are seasoned bikers. In the past, we've had the AD at the SchH field, which is flat, but is a hay field. We don't have any nice dirt roads or anything that we can do it on, unfortunately. Here, we're lucky to find a mile stretch that is flat, or even semi-flat. If the local high school would let us do it around the football field or something, that would be great, but they won't allow dogs.


----------



## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

"Keeping the dog in great shape can make a huge difference on his field performance. By the end of that 10 min field performance is really hard to see all the dog's that have their tongues hanging out from exhaustion."

With my old dog that pass this past spring, I road worked him. Kept me in shape and he had no issue on the field - he was in excellent condition.

With the AD, I wore out a new set of brakes with him, as he wanted to be in 1st. He ran the AD pretty fast, no issues on his pads. The judge was yelling in German for me to slow him down....

I have done ADs before for others that do not want to do them.

Gabor has done all his on his dogs. Dax was just done in Indy- not much prep work, just getting used to the bike. Gabor keeps his dogs (and self) in pretty good shape (within 10 lbs of his military weight a LONG time ago!). 

In CA, we did ADs on the east side of the Dumbarton bridge. Here, in TN, some parks (with permission), etc.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I ran the little ****ers good tonight, only had to beat Soda PoP a couple of times for trying to kill us both. In the end she figured it out, and is sleeping like a baby........or has a concussion, can't tell yet. I guess the behavior of running in front of the front tire should be extinguished after I crash landed on her. LOL 

Made for a soft fall for me, no rash at all. :grin:


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I had a nearly the same experience a few days ago with pigons flushing out and he crossed the front tire. He ended up on the ground and tried to bite the front tire as it was riding over his rear legs.:twisted:


----------

