# It seems I got me a PPD



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

we did a little scenario when I was away from the house this afternoon. Sorry no real video just a very short cell phone vid from which I did a screen capture

Decoy jumps over the back wall, walks into the unlocked door and then was met by the rottie (only one that was loose) Rottie does a hold and bark. Dog Pushes decoy further into the kitchen and then bit hidden sleeve when the decoy threatened the dog. Decoy fought the dog to the side gate, slipped his jacket and then left the yard. 

I think the dog not alerting during last weeks break-in was a fluke because of all the distractions.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris, I'm for sure not the person to talk to about PPD but do you really want a B&H for a home invasion?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Chris, I'm for sure not the person to talk to about PPD but do you really want a B&H for a home invasion?


I know... he's not a real PPD dog. He's a schH dog so that's his natural response. We just wanted to see what he would do first and weren't even sure he would bite in the house without me being there.

Now that we know his reponse we can plan a better training scenario for him or perhaps what he did is enough. Did the dog bite on his own? Yes. Just not right away and if a bad gay had a gun or knife the dog would be hurt anyway. The way I see it, at least the bad guy has a chance to shit his pants first.

I'm pleased to know that he did show aggression and did deliver a bite completely on his own. At least he didn't fold and run.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

serious question for Lee,

what do you expect a dog to do when it's alone?


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

good question chris! to be honest i just expect my dogs to raise hell if someone is around.I am only just getting into bite work and even then i still would rather my dog just go nuts if someone comes over when im here or not either let me or my neighbours know something isnt right and we can deal but i admire any dog greatly that takes it upon himself to protect his home and owner with serious conflict or injury.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Chris, I'm for sure not the person to talk to about PPD but do you really want a B&H for a home invasion?


 Bob, I think Chris may have posted the B&H as *BITE AND HOLD*! :mrgreen: The only way to go for HI...

There are very few reasons why I want a true B & H, only to alert me if the shiftless bas%ard is hiding in the closet or in the barn with my sheep!!!:twisted:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I would like to know what is generally expected. So far he's doing as he's been trained in schH. then again the decoy was the same guy we always train with. It would be nice to pay a naked crackhead to take a bite and see what would really happen.


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> serious question for Lee,
> 
> what do you expect a dog to do when it's alone?


In my home? Alone? I expect the dog to rip him a new one. I expect my family companion guardian/pp dog to become a sentry dog in my absence. That is why I keep my property secure, so no one gets around my dogs on accident. Although I do believe in protecting my family and innocent society, I don't believe in protecting criminals. They have too many rights as it is. I don't go looking for trouble, but I don't have much mercy for someone that wishes to comes into my life looking for it...that may wish to kidnap a child or do who knows what.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lee Robinson said:


> In my home? Alone? I expect the dog to rip him a new one. I expect my family companion guardian/pp dog to become a sentry dog in my absence. That is why I keep my property secure, so no one gets around my dogs on accident. Although I do believe in protecting my family and innocent society, I don't believe in protecting criminals. They have too many rights as it is. I don't go looking for trouble, but I don't have much mercy for someone that wishes to comes into my life looking for it...that may wish to kidnap a child or do who knows what.


 
You must of got beat up every single day on the playground


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> You must of got beat up every single day on the playground


There are certainly people out there that I know could have whipped me as I don't claim to be the UFC champ or anything, but to date I have been lucky enough to have never lost a fight...despite having older brothers. I think it has to do with my nature. I haven't swung first, but once they swing...I am no longer am concerned about what happens to my opponent...which is the way it should be IMO...and is how I will raise my children. Don't start trouble, just be direct enough to end it.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Lee Robinson said:


> In my home? Alone? I expect the dog to rip him a new one. I expect my family companion guardian/pp dog to become a sentry dog in my absence. That is why I keep my property secure, so no one gets around my dogs on accident. Although I do believe in protecting my family and innocent society, I don't believe in protecting criminals. They have too many rights as it is. I don't go looking for trouble, but I don't have much mercy for someone that wishes to comes into my life looking for it...that may wish to kidnap a child or do who knows what.


Any problem with laws for something like that? Not that I don't think someone breaking in deserves it, but what do think some trip&fall lawyer would have to say about that type of sentry dog when you were absent?


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

As long as the blood is in my home...I wiill deal with that. Laws here in MS are still fairly traditional.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't think I want my dog to bite right away. The bark and hold is enough. About ten years ago, my brother asked if he could borrow some movies, that's fine but the knucklehead was really asking for his room mate who let himself in the house with my brother's knowledge of the location to my spare house key. I had a rottie at the time but wasn't trained for anything as she was just a pet. 

When he entered the house, my dog backed him into a corner in the kitchen and he was forced to climb up on to the counter. He said the dog would even go to sleep but as soon as he moved, she was up and growling at him. This was before everybody had cell phones so he was stuck. After two hours of this my wife returned from work and all was well after that. I think she even yelled at the dog for doing it.

Anyway, I think about that story when I think about a dog deciding to tear somebody up for no real reason.

My dog doesn't know to do anything else other than his schH training so the B&H was the appropriate thing to do especially considering it was the usual helper. I don't know what he would really do but he's worked with enough helpers that he doesn't care who he bites so I think it's reasonable to expect him to do a B&H for real.

Unless you're a trained dogman, and otherwise don't have a weapon, you're gonna shit you're gonna soil yourself if faced with an aggressive rott. Right? I don't need nor wants another man's blood in my house, my carpets are ****ing dirty enough from six dogs.


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

Cleaning up some blood would likely cost less than replacing and repairing the damage a criminal would do to your home. But, I would rather have some blood in the house than have someone looking for a child to molest roaming around...or some crook stealing from innocent hard working people...even if it didn't cost less.

Also, anyone that knows me knows I have dogs...and to be honest, even a crook would know...as it is obvious when you come up my property. So, they surely would go to an easier target.

If a man is so dedicated to robbing you, they will...but criminals look for easy targets by looking for people that are not prepaired. That said, they will just go to an easier target. The only people dedicated enough to break into a home with a PP dog would have to be willing to kill the dog. And, for someone to do that, they would have to have a personal issue with their victim. AND, in real life I don't have any enemies (despite having a few in the "virtual k9 message forum world"), so I don't ever worry about being robbed in a stable economy. My concern is more about what will happen should the economy really collapse...or go from a capitalistic nation to one of socialism and eventually communism. I won't tollerate that...and will do what I can to be prepared to defend my family and home while others run around paniced...as I believe some day that may occur, although I certainly don't wish for it to. Seems like we get closer to it every year...as our nation continues to accomidate more and more nonsense from those that don't carry their own weight...be it dope heads, criminals, muggers, molesters, or other forms of parasites.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Lee, what if its not the worst case like you're presenting of a child being abducted and just the more likely drug addict trying to steal your TV? You don't think a laywer is going to separate you from your vast fortune?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Lee Robinson said:


> Also, anyone that knows me knows I have dogs...and to be honest, even a crook would know...as it is obvious when you come up my property. So, they surely would go to an easier target.



I used to think exactly the same thing and you know what? I was robbed a week ago while I was home with four loose dogs in the house. Lee, if it can happen to me, it can happen to you...don't be a fool about it like I was.

we seem to be talking about two things here. If I understand you correctly you want a big meat missile that will launch and detonate on a target if you are away. I'm saying, I would rather have a dog that does exactly what mine did... bark and hold and bite if necessary.

If an intruder has a weapon your dog is gonna be hurt regardless of whether it bites first. Hmmm, I think I'm going to make my dog wear a battle helmet for when I;m gone.


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

Nope... Steve, If the criminal can get away, he will likely report "I was bit by a stray" so he doesn't get arrested. And, here in MS...I have never heard of anyone having a legal problem dealing with a criminal getting bit. I know of 4 of our dogs that have had live bites while on sentry patrol at business situations, and there have not been any legal issues. People hear all the bad about MS, but they don't typically hear the good. Fortunately, the laws here tend to use a good bit of common sense within the "good ol' boy" system...which is beneficial for the law abiding types such as myself. For a criminal to have much of a chance here, they would most likely have to appeal to a higher court...and few dope heads would have a hard time getting a lawyer around here for something like that. Most trial lawyers would want a lot more money than they could get from me...so the trial lawyers tend to target auto insurance companies that hit innocent people...and don't really help the criminals too much around here. That said, I will deal with that if it happens. I refuse to give up my rights in exchange for enabling criminals and their activities. I will always choose to protect my family and my property rather than protect/enable a criminal. Also, one would have a hard time proving a criminal was only going to steal a tv. What's this nation coming to when a criminal's rights are more valuable than the honest man's rights? We accomidate WAY TOO MUCH. Socialism at its finest. So...what's next? Why don't we all just quit working and just rob one other? If that is ok, why work?

Chris, the person that came into your home...did you catch them? I'm curious, what happened? Did the criminal(s) know you? If not, did your dogs not alarm prior to the break in?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Lee Robinson said:


> Chris, the person that came into your home...did you catch them? I'm curious, what happened? Did the criminal(s) know you? If not, did your dogs not alarm prior to the break in?



nope never caught them. The rottie alerted at the last minute and chased him out the door and to the back wall but the dog didn't get there fast enough.

There were a lot of distractions going on at the time. I am a musican and have live music going on in my studio and four of the dogs were in there with me and my other two were locked in the bed room with my wife.


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

Fortunately, no one innocent was hurt. That's what matters most. Thank God he didn't get to your wife and that the dogs were not all with you! I guess you don't have kids living with you.

This is why people need to know protection is done with LAYERS. Visual (warning signs, alarm system signs, cameras), sound (siren), neighborhood watch, good dogs, and firearms for those that are willing to learn how to use them.

BTW, in MS we also have castle domain law, which most likely only applies if someone is home.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

I don't know Lee, I have a hard time believing that if your dogs home alone and rips someone a new one your not going to get sued. Maybe I'm just overly cynical.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

when the officer came to my house he told me I would be better off if I shot the intruder dead or not rather than have a dog tear him apart. With the dog laws here, the invader could sue, most don't but they can't. With a gun shot he has to prove he had reason to be there and I didn't feel threatened because of his presence.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> I don't know Lee, I have a hard time believing that if your dogs home alone and rips someone a new one your not going to get sued. Maybe I'm just overly cynical.



I'm with Lee on this one. My house, you break-in, I'm not home and my dog tears you a new one ---- sue me. Keep in mind, anyone can bring a law suit, for nearly any reason. also keep in mind, a jury of my peers is going to hear; I wasn't home. They'll hear how much training the dog has had. They'll see video of my children playing with this dog. They'll be presented evidence this dog has never bitten anyone. Then they'll hear that while I wasn't home. someone broke into MY house, to steal things I had worked hard to pay for. They may hear inferences of other unspeakable acts that could have happened if my children or wife were home alone. These same 12 people, that may well own home, or if I'm really lucky have been robbed before will be asked if I'm at fault for protecting my possessions. I'll take my chances. As out of whack as it may seem at times, I still have faith in the system. 

The only advantage that I would gain if I was home, there would only be one eyewitness account of what had happened.

DFrost


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

I know David. I probably just don't have the same amount of faith you do. Maybe it's a California thing. I could see going to court and losing everything including my dog, thanks to a jury, for a TV thats insured. Completely different then the safety of my family. Then I agree, go ahead sue me.


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

And the jury will ALSO hear about the criminal's past record(s) as most criminals are repeat offenders.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lee Robinson said:


> And the jury will ALSO hear about the criminal's past record(s) as most criminals are repeat offenders.



One would hope they would, but the defense attorney will argue it would prejudice the Jury. Most of the time past
criminal deeds are NOT admissable :-(


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