# Protects The House – Not The Yard?



## Doug Wright 2

Interested in hearing some thoughts on this:
My 32 month old GSD demonstrates fierce aggression when intruders come up to the door or simply passes by. However his displays at the side gate or back fence leaves a lot to be desired. Don’t get me wrong, he does show aggression but not with the same intensity as when he’s guarding the front door. 

He’s probably considered an inside dog as he is with the wife all day. Would I be at least partially correct in my determination that since he has never really been challenged in the back yard nor spends a lot of time out there, that he views that area as something he doesn’t need to protect. 

I’m considering two ways to perhaps get him in the right frame of mind. 
1) When someone walks by the front door and he shows aggression, run him to the side gate while he is still pumped up and alert him encouraging him to display a higher level of aggression through the fence.

2) Have someone agitate the dog through the fence then run off.

Can someone possibly enlighten me as to what may be causing this and perhaps a better/more suitable way to teach him that the back yard is his to protect as well. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Steve Estrada

My vote is #2, maybe the wife's boyfriend comes in that gate :-\"


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

No 2 is the way I trained my dogs for Costa Rica. We started with the fenced dog run at the trainers and then moved it to my house where I had a couple of neighbors piss them off through the fence.

By the way, don't agitate through a chain link fence. I had a dog chip a tooth trying to eat the agitator. 

Once in CR I fenced the yard and put a doggie door through the back door. Never had a intruder problem where home break ins are the second most popular national pass times next to car theft. 

The house at the beach was where I needed them for that stuff. The house in the mountains I never had to even lock the door.


----------



## Doug Wright 2

I'll have to tell the wife that the BFs come thru the front door from now on.


----------



## Steve Estrada

I thought Lee had a good point about the fence, I can see that potentially happening although I never considered the possibility. Thanks....


----------



## Doug Wright 2

I do agree with Lee whole heartedly. Infact, I had to replace the chainlink fence between me and my neighbors house because my dog would fence fight thru the chain link fence with his miniature poodle (I HATE THOSE DOGS). The fence is now cedar plank with no gaps. Now that the poodle is gone, harmony has been restored. I offered to buy it from them to feed the coyotes but they wouldn't go for it. 

I tried - thanks Lee


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Any wood fence we gaps so they can see the agitator is fine.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Doug Wright 2 said:


> I do agree with Lee whole heartedly. Infact, I had to replace the chainlink fence between me and my neighbors house because my dog would fence fight thru the chain link fence with his miniature poodle (I HATE THOSE DOGS). The fence is now cedar plank with no gaps. Now that the poodle is gone, harmony has been restored. I offered to buy it from them to feed the coyotes but they wouldn't go for it.
> 
> I tried - thanks Lee


E collar works wonders for fence fighting.


----------



## Bob Scott

"Can someone possibly enlighten me as to what may be causing this and perhaps a better/more suitable way to teach him that the back yard is his to protect as well".

I think you answered your own first question. The dogs primarily in the house with your wife. He has developed more barrier aggression in there. Truley protective? Who knows. 
My own two are outside 24/7. When the front door bell rings they will raise a bit of hell but it doesn't begin to compare with the reactions when someone comes to the back gate or the car. They've spent a lot of time in the car also. 
The older on has always put on a huge display in the car since he was a pup. I didn't encourage it but didn't try and snuff it either. The younger one has much less aggression and more then likely started responding simply because the older dog does.
Is my older dog protective? In many way I "love" to SAY yes but in honesty I have no intentions of finding out.


----------



## Doug Wright 2

So may I assume that a good way to train for this is to aggitate through the fence until the dog displays the desired level of agression, then have the helper run away? Repeat as necessary.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Doug Wright 2 said:


> So may I assume that a good way to train for this is to aggitate through the fence until the dog displays the desired level of agression, then have the helper run away? Repeat as necessary.


Beat on the fence, throw rocks, make noise. anything to piss the dog off then run away. Other times sneak up quietly then explode at the fence. Wear different clothing, hats, overcoats, etc. 

That's the way I did it.

It is actually pretty easy if the dog has any natural aggression!

Remember there is a downside to teaching all this type aggression!


----------



## leslie cassian

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Remember there is a downside to teaching all this type aggression!


Yup, my Dutchie started fence fighting with the neighbour's dogs. Escalated to where she was trying to go over the six foot fence instead of through it. I blocked access to that part of the yard when I had to pull her down from where she was poised on top of the fence on her way into their yard. 

Personally, I would prefer my dogs didn't go apeshit at everything they hear outside, but I live in the city so have lots of noises and people around. I don't want to hear other people's dogs and I don't want my dogs disturbing my neighbours any more than necessary.


----------



## Zakia Days

Not sure one can train with too much advice strictly from a forum, but it can happen. Me mindful, observant and make mental notes. I'd also suggest having a trainer come through and evaluate what's going on and make suggestions. Good luck with your training.


----------



## Bob Scott

Basically the same principal that makes a dog go crazy after the mail man. Every day this "stranger" comes up and messes with the house (mail box/slot). Dog barks, mailman leaves. It doesn't take a dog long before it feels like Kripto the super dog because it "knows" this person can be easily chased away. Then it really starts going off even when the mail carrier is a house or two down.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie

Bob Scott said:


> Is my older dog protective? In many way I "love" to SAY yes but in honesty I have no intentions of finding out.


You've spent too many years with terriers. Of course he is. My vote is to leave the dog alone. He has the sense to know where the den/castle is [with entrances/exits]and where what he is guarding is located. 


T


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie

leslie cassian said:


> Yup, my Dutchie started fence fighting with the neighbour's dogs. Escalated to where she was trying to go over the six foot fence instead of through it. I blocked access to that part of the yard when I had to pull her down from where she was poised on top of the fence on her way into their yard.
> 
> Personally, I would prefer my dogs didn't go apeshit at everything they hear outside, but I live in the city so have lots of noises and people around. I don't want to hear other people's dogs and I don't want my dogs disturbing my neighbours any more than necessary.


 
Ditto for me. I don't need ra ra noise makers. The dogs guard me and where I am. Every passerby isn't cause for running around barking. Besides, spent nearly 15 years with a bouv that would go head on through a fence and take it off the poles and he didn't make a sound. He also cost us a windshield. Don't let them in the front door or the car is just fine for me.


T


----------



## Bob Scott

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> You've spent too many years with terriers. Of course he is. My vote is to leave the dog alone. He has the sense to know where the den/castle is [with entrances/exits]and where what he is guarding is located.
> 
> 
> T



I've had one or two terriers that would eat you just because. When my son was a teen he had to actively peel our JRT Pete off the quad muscle of one of his buddies. They got to horsing around and Pete was just barking at their antics till my son got pinned and started hollering. 
Very understanding parents but I still paid the bills. I think the dad knocked the crap out of his kid for being so dumb around a dog. Good ol mom saved my son from me. ](*,) Mommas and their babys. :roll: :grin: :wink:


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie

Bob Scott said:


> I've had one or two terriers that would eat you just because. When my son was a teen he had to actively peel our JRT Pete off the quad muscle of one of his buddies. They got to horsing around and Pete was just barking at their antics till my son got pinned and started hollering.
> Very understanding parents but I still paid the bills. I think the dad knocked the crap out of his kid for being so dumb around a dog. Good ol mom saved my son from me. ](*,) Mommas and their babys. :roll: :grin: :wink:


When I was a kid ours sat in the window and watched my brother wrestling with his friend. Suddenly, he went through the window. As it turned out it escalated from play to a fight right before Thunder [childhood GSD] went through the window. Hence my house rule when my son was growing up, dogs with me. Even the most kid tolerant dog will choose up sides with his own. As for mamas and the babies, where mine is concerned, hubby is always saying, "you REALLY don't want my wife getting involved." I don't know what happens to me. I don't even know myself. I'll probably need a straight jacket when I pack him off to college. Just sent him to the all-state conference for 3 days and he had enough food to feed the entire room. There I was in the store having the "baby could get hungry" panic. Geez, need to get a grip.

T


----------



## maggie fraser

Doug Wright 2 said:


> Interested in hearing some thoughts on this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He’s probably considered an inside dog as he is with the wife all day. Would I be at least partially correct in my determination that since he has never really been challenged in the back yard nor spends a lot of time out there, that he views that area as something he doesn’t need to protect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone possibly enlighten me as to what may be causing this and perhaps a better/more suitable way to teach him that the back yard is his to protect as well.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Dog sounds like he could be a cling-on who lacks confidence and/ or territoriality,, I'd swap him for a jrt!


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

leslie cassian said:


> Yup, my Dutchie started fence fighting with the neighbour's dogs. Escalated to where she was trying to go over the six foot fence instead of through it. I blocked access to that part of the yard when I had to pull her down from where she was poised on top of the fence on her way into their yard.
> 
> Personally, I would prefer my dogs didn't go apeshit at everything they hear outside, but I live in the city so have lots of noises and people around. I don't want to hear other people's dogs and I don't want my dogs disturbing my neighbours any more than necessary.


My dogs were being trained for CR. I might have had a different approach if I was staying here.

They aren't barkers unless someone gets near the fence. People can pass by on the sidewalk out front or the kid can play with friends on the front lawn with no barking. That would drive me nuts and I would put a stop to it very fast.:grin:

Just don't come in the fenced yard.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Ditto for me. I don't need ra ra noise makers. The dogs guard me and where I am. Every passerby isn't cause for running around barking. Besides, spent nearly 15 years with a bouv that would go head on through a fence and take it off the poles and he didn't make a sound. He also cost us a windshield. Don't let them in the front door or the car is just fine for me.
> 
> 
> T


Who was talking about every passerby causing the dogs to go nuts?](*,)

I would not put up with that!

There is a invisible line that needs to be crossed before the dogs go nuts. LOL

L


----------



## Doug Wright 2

Thanks all for providing good food for thought. The whole reason (probalby should have stated earlier) is that my young dog let someone/helper in the back yard. He's tested good protecting the house not letting the helper through the doors. He engaged very well when the helper tried to push his way through. When we tried this scenerio in the backyard, he put up some resistence (barking and half-ass engagements), but he still allowed the helper through. 

Even at 32 months, this dog has yet to reach full metal maturity. I concede that I may be expecting too much right now but how am I going to know where he is at if I don't evaluate and make adjustments to address his week areas. 

I live in a area where a half-way house exist for people with Schizophrenia. With not much to do, they pass by on their way to the store. I've even had them come up to the door asking for various items or to warn us of some upcoming disaster. It can get a bit nervy. Usually we let the dog go nuts at the door then apologize for his behavior all the while pretending to sooth him by petting him reenforcing his behavior. 

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> My vote is to leave the dog alone. He has the sense to know where the den/castle is [with entrances/exits]and where what he is guarding is located.
> 
> 
> T


+1

What's in your back yard worth protecting? Let the dog protect the wife and house and not worry about protecting the yard from every passer by and neighbors dogs and kids.


----------



## Dave Colborn

Doug Wright 2 said:


> Thanks all for providing good food for thought. The whole reason (probalby should have stated earlier) is that my young dog let someone/helper in the back yard. He's tested good protecting the house not letting the helper through the doors. He engaged very well when the helper tried to push his way through. When we tried this scenerio in the backyard, he put up some resistence (barking and half-ass engagements), but he still allowed the helper through.
> 
> Even at 32 months, this dog has yet to reach full metal maturity. I concede that I may be expecting too much right now but how am I going to know where he is at if I don't evaluate and make adjustments to address his week areas.
> 
> I live in a area where a half-way house exist for people with Schizophrenia. With not much to do, they pass by on their way to the store. I've even had them come up to the door asking for various items or to warn us of some upcoming disaster. It can get a bit nervy. Usually we let the dog go nuts at the door then apologize for his behavior all the while pretending to sooth him by petting him reenforcing his behavior.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Is the dog trained to bite?


----------



## Steve Estrada

Doug Wright 2 said:


> Thanks all for providing good food for thought. The whole reason (probalby should have stated earlier) is that my young dog let someone/helper in the back yard. He's tested good protecting the house not letting the helper through the doors. He engaged very well when the helper tried to push his way through. When we tried this scenerio in the backyard, he put up some resistence (barking and half-ass engagements), but he still allowed the helper through.
> 
> Even at 32 months, this dog has yet to reach full metal maturity. I concede that I may be expecting too much right now but how am I going to know where he is at if I don't evaluate and make adjustments to address his week areas.
> 
> I live in a area where a half-way house exist for people with Schizophrenia. With not much to do, they pass by on their way to the store. I've even had them come up to the door asking for various items or to warn us of some upcoming disaster. It can get a bit nervy. Usually we let the dog go nuts at the door then apologize for his behavior all the while pretending to sooth him by petting him reenforcing his behavior.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


An interesting fact about schizophrenia. Before it was able to be medically detected, dogs would have an aggressive response to those people likely because dogs were able to detect the chemical imbalance.
I had a client who said her dog didn't like one particular boy & would get weird. I asked if she noticed anything unusual about him, she said "no", I then asked if she knew if he took any meds regularly? She said "yes" he did. Case solved :-\"
I suggested she discuss this with boys Mom as ounce of prevention for his safety, got to protect kids, well most of them :lol:


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Thomas Barriano said:


> +1
> 
> What's in your back yard worth protecting? Let the dog protect the wife and house and not worry about protecting the yard from every passer by and neighbors dogs and kids.



I don't want anyone past the fence. I don't enjoy strange people who I don't know roaming around my back yard whether the freaking lawn mower is out for grabs or not.:-D

I'm just weird that way! LOL


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Lee,

Then you need a dog that will bite any stranger IN the yard, not bark at everyone, everything walking by


----------



## Doug Wright 2

The dog is indeed trained to bite with 2 years of bite work training. We have been working him in civil coupled with muzzle fighting each time applying a little more pressure to foster confidence. Its working thus far but of course we have to go at his pace. Of course it doesn't help that he's on some level locked in prey. He'll get there. He can't stay a puppy forever - it's just a waiting game.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Thomas Barriano said:


> Lee,
> 
> Then you need a dog that will bite any stranger IN the yard, not bark at everyone, everything walking by


You neglected to read my other posts. I repeat, I would not put up with that kind of BS barking at nothing. The dogs don't bark at people roaming by. If they get close to the rear fence they get aggressive. 

I guess if I lived on a corner with people passing by on a sidewalk I would have to train a bit different, but I don't have that concern. I've had neighbors and kids within 10 feet of the fence with no barking.

I consider the back yard private like the house and don't want people in it. 

Fence fighting is a no brainer. I had neighbor dogs on all 3 sides of me when I lived in Idaho. I broke fence fighting with a e collar.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Anyone can have free entry into my backyard. When they're in the backyard that's another story.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Thomas Barriano said:


> Anyone can have free entry into my backyard. When they're in the backyard that's another story.


 I understand Thomas. I want them warning a potential intruder first. Remember I originally trained them for a specific environment...Costa Rica.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

You're being too nice. I don't give warnings. I figure if someone doesn't know they shouldn't be in my backyard. Then they'll suffer the consequences of their ignorance ;-)


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Thomas Barriano said:


> You're being too nice. I don't give warnings. I figure if someone doesn't know they shouldn't be in my backyard. Then they'll suffer the consequences of their ignorance ;-)


Yeah but I have a business there! I try not to kill off customers w/o warning them first.:-D


----------



## Bob Scott

Fav "warning" poster

Due to today's high cost of ammunition today there will be no warning shots fired over your head.


----------



## Dave Colborn

Doug Wright 2 said:


> The dog is indeed trained to bite with 2 years of bite work training. We have been working him in civil coupled with muzzle fighting each time applying a little more pressure to foster confidence. Its working thus far but of course we have to go at his pace. Of course it doesn't help that he's on some level locked in prey. He'll get there. He can't stay a puppy forever - it's just a waiting game.


 
Sounds like you could put a twist in your training and not say it is him being a puppy. If he really bites, then there is no reason a helper snuck in other than a need for a change in training (which I assume is why you posted here). Work him at the gate in bitework. Let him bite a few times at the gate then put the decoy behind it. One bark, open the gate for a bite. Go to variable reward quickly as in two barks three, etc.. Have your helper open the gate when the barking is most intese. I don't know your situation, and you have to determine if you are ready for the lawsuit a bite on your place may get you, but the bite is a reward and if you reward the barking with a bite, it just might make him do what you want.

If the barking wont come, do it at your front door first, good barks and bites, then transfer it outside. Same thing. If a dog has a mindset that barking makes movement or barking gets me a bite, it is easy to train the barking in most contexts. Watch Katrin's video of her young dog, with a bite toy on a leash. SHe makes it move generally, or starts the action when the dog barks. So in essence, the dog starts the action. apply this to your decoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8FnBMRkoo



This advice is intended neither as a suggestion or condoning the biting of a live person on your property. Only as a suggestion to teach the dog to bark behind a fence as a deterrent. I bear no legal responsibility in giving this advice.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Dave Colborn said:


> Sounds like you could put a twist in your training and not say it is him being a puppy. If he really bites, then there is no reason a helper snuck in other than a need for a change in training (which I assume is why you posted here). Work him at the gate in bitework. Let him bite a few times at the gate then put the decoy behind it. One bark, open the gate for a bite. Go to variable reward quickly as in two barks three, etc.. Have your helper open the gate when the barking is most intese. I don't know your situation, and you have to determine if you are ready for the lawsuit a bite on your place may get you, but the bite is a reward and if you reward the barking with a bite, it just might make him do what you want.
> 
> If the barking wont come, do it at your front door first, good barks and bites, then transfer it outside. Same thing. If a dog has a mindset that barking makes movement or barking gets me a bite, it is easy to train the barking in most contexts. Watch Katrin's video of her young dog, with a bite toy on a leash. SHe makes it move generally, or starts the action when the dog barks. So in essence, the dog starts the action. apply this to your decoy.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8FnBMRkoo
> 
> 
> 
> This advice is intended neither as a suggestion or condoning the biting of a live person on your property. Only as a suggestion to teach the dog to bark behind a fence as a deterrent. I bear no legal responsibility in giving this advice.


I really like that post, Dave. I never needed to go quite that far with my Dutchies. They were ready to rumble from the get go and trying to eat through the fence. Great disclaimer too.


----------



## Dave Colborn

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I really like that post, Dave. I never needed to go quite that far with my Dutchies. They were ready to rumble from the get go and trying to eat through the fence. Great disclaimer too.


 
it's nice to have lots of dog. the rest you have to train!!

I saw another poster mentioning luring unsuspecting people into his own back yard to get bit for no reason. I just didn't want to come accross like that so I put a disclaimer on. I'd really rather shoot someone that get one of my dogs put down for biting someone in a circumstance they should. Prison will suck though, if I have a bad shoot.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Dave Colborn said:


> it's nice to have lots of dog. the rest you have to train!!
> 
> I saw another poster mentioning luring unsuspecting people into his own back yard to get bit for no reason. I just didn't want to come accross like that so I put a disclaimer on. I'd really rather shoot someone that get one of my dogs put down for biting someone in a circumstance they should. Prison will suck though, if I have a bad shoot.


That's was one of the things fun about Costa Rica. I don't think in the history of the whole country they ever put a dog down for biting a intruder.:grin:

There's a lot more personal freedom there.


----------



## Doug Wright 2

Dave Colborn said:


> Sounds like you could put a twist in your training and not say it is him being a puppy. If he really bites, then there is no reason a helper snuck in other than a need for a change in training (which I assume is why you posted here).


Dave - you are 100% right in your thought. I concede that there have been extreme gaps in my dogs training hence the reason I left the trainer I had for the past 2 years (3 weeks ago) and have since began working with another. Pissed me off because I had paid for my dogs training in full upfront (STUPID STUPID STUPID). Now I"m throwing good money after bad. This new trainer has primarily a sport back ground but he's all I can find. Unfortunately, finding a trainer that specializes in personal protection work has been very challenging. I feel that the only way this dog is going to be everything I want him to be is for me to take his training on myself with a helper that will do what I ask. I'm green as well and obviously no match for those of you with years upon years of experience. But I'm determined to get it right. 

I appreciated the Video you provided. It was a good reminder that all training happens in steps. In raising my dog, I was instructed to perform the same tasks. My dog does know that barking makes the action happen. And he's persistant at it. In other words, he'll bark till he gets it!

Thank you for detailing to me how to work my dog at and through the fence. I"m on it and hope to come back with positive results. It's that kind of detail that I'm going to need to get this right. 

Doug


----------



## Lindsay Janes

Doug Wright 2 said:


> The dog is indeed trained to bite with 2 years of bite work training. We have been working him in civil coupled with muzzle fighting each time applying a little more pressure to foster confidence. Its working thus far but of course we have to go at his pace. Of course it doesn't help that he's on some level locked in prey. He'll get there. He can't stay a puppy forever - it's just a waiting game.


 It's great that you did bite work training with your dog, but there is something I don't get.. Why do you want to teach your dog to protect the wife? Is your wife capable of taking care of herself when she is alone? 

Any intruder can easily shot your barking aggressive dog. Better option would be... Teaching your wife how to self protection. Especially if you are concerned about your wife's safety. Practice those when she is under stress can help her making a quick life-saving decision.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

What's easier, teaching the wife to shoot or the dog to bite? ;-)


----------



## susan tuck

Lindsay Janes said:


> It's great that you did bite work training with your dog, but there is something I don't get.. Why do you want to teach your dog to protect the wife? Is your wife capable of taking care of herself when she is alone?
> 
> Any intruder can easily shot your barking aggressive dog. Better option would be... Teaching your wife how to self protection. Especially if you are concerned about your wife's safety. Practice those when she is under stress can help her making a quick life-saving decision.


Lindsay it's my understanding the philosophy behind PP dogs is an aggressive dog who will bite can serve as a strong deterrent, or in the worst case scenario of an intruder who is determined to get past the dog to get to the wife, the time it takes for the intruder to deal with the dog, buys the homeowner time to evade or arm herself.


----------



## Joby Becker

Lindsay Janes said:


> It's great that you did bite work training with your dog, but there is something I don't get.. Why do you want to teach your dog to protect the wife? Is your wife capable of taking care of herself when she is alone?
> 
> Any intruder can easily shot your barking aggressive dog. Better option would be... Teaching your wife how to self protection. Especially if you are concerned about your wife's safety. Practice those when she is under stress can help her making a quick life-saving decision.


where do you think the term "protection" came from in dogsports?


----------



## Joby Becker

I like the dog to alert to things close by outside.

like people messing around by my car, the last time I can think of, I looked out and saw a guy with both hands cupped around his eyes, with his face up against the back tinted window of my jeep.

a good barking dog that does not nuisance bark or bark at EVERYTHING can save your stuff. Even if it is not a deterrent it can be an alarm for you to take a look...and not just let people take your stuff.


----------



## Lindsay Janes

susan tuck said:


> Lindsay it's my understanding the philosophy behind PP dogs is an aggressive dog who will bite can serve as a strong deterrent, or in the worst case scenario of an intruder who is determined to get past the dog to get to the wife, the time it takes for the intruder to deal with the dog, buys the homeowner time to evade or arm herself.


True.. True.. Umm. Haven't thought of that.


----------



## Lindsay Janes

Joby Becker said:


> where do you think the term "protection" came from in dogsports?


Are you genuinely asking me where I really think of the term "protection" come from in dogsports?


----------



## Bob Scott

In the original herding testing (HGH) in the GSD the dog was expected to protect the shepherd as well as control the stock. That was done with a human intruder threatening and aproaching the shepherd. Now I think all that is expected of the dog is that it barks at the intruder.](*,)

Both my GSDs are outside 24/7 and, as said in the previous posts, will happily alert on anyone close to the house or cars.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie

Bob Scott said:


> In the original herding testing (HGH) in the GSD the dog was expected to protect the shepherd as well as control the stock. That was done with a human intruder threatening and aproaching the shepherd. Now I think all that is expected of the dog is that it barks at the intruder.](*,)
> 
> Both my GSDs are outside 24/7 and, as said in the previous posts, will happily alert on anyone close to the house or cars.


Yeah, several years ago I was working at the computer at about 1:00 a.m. Thor and Khira sounded like they were trying to go through the side gate of the dog yard. Went out and there was some dumb a** trying to make it over the fence of the outer yard with hubby's back pack blower and weed eater. Told him I'd turn them loose if he didn't drop them. Over the fence he went without them. Asked hubby why he didn't go check on them even though he heard them. His response was "dogs bark." Boy did he jump up grabbing for his clothes when I said that they just saved him about $700 bucks. Even the ducks would sound off when someone entered the outer yard. 

Yep, in times of old, the German Shepherd was required to be both a guard dog and herding dog. Now its one, the other or neither.

T


----------



## Bob Scott

T, you needed one of those signs that say 
"My dog can make it to the fence in 2.1 seconds. Can you"? :twisted:

I'm betting they would have been........:-k ...moist:twisted: enough to squeeze through the fence if they saw Thor headed towards them. :lol:


----------



## Doug Wright 2

Wanted to provide an update since my first post. I wanted to say thanks for all your suggestions! 

I did about 5-10 minutes daily tug work with my dog at the fence, more specifically the back gate that I expect my dog to protect. I also had a neighbor with a ski-mask tease my dog through the fence/gate area. After a good display of aggression, I would signal the masked man to run away all the while I would praise the dog lavishly and reward him with a bite on the tug. 

I was able to see a sharp increase in my dogs aggression and when I brought in a decoy to intrude through the gate, my dog lit up nicely and bit. He didn't bite on his own but did when commanded. I plan on taking this regiment to other parts of my property until he has it down pat.

Thanks again - this was a hard spot with me.


----------



## Steve Estrada

Better warn the wife's boyfriend not to wear ski mask [-X


----------



## Dave Colborn

well. your training this time taught the dog the guy would run away. teach him that if he barks. the gate will open and he will get to bite. 

Imagine your surprise if you made a hotdog in a microwave with a solid door and opened the microwave ten times. Nine times you get a hot dog, on the tenth, you open it to find a halloween mask instead of a cooked hot dog. Nope. you wouldn't hesitate at all.


----------



## Doug Wright 2

You're killing me Steve. She lets the Marine in the front door after she puts the dog outside(haha).
Dave - what you offer makes sense. I'm on it. I hope I can get this guy to wear the jacket. Maybe I can convince him that its better than the alternative.

Thx


----------



## Dave Colborn

Doug Wright 2 said:


> You're killing me Steve. She lets the Marine in the front door after she puts the dog outside(haha).
> Dave - what you offer makes sense. I'm on it. I hope I can get this guy to wear the jacket. Maybe I can convince him that its better than the alternative.
> 
> Thx


Doug. Do it yourself with a tug first. THink about a leash biting dog in a cage. Dog wants to bite the leash when we go to leash him up. do OB for hot dogs before opening the gate and voila he is thinking of hot dogs instead of leash biting. you want him to think bite, you can transfer to the man later


----------



## Steve Estrada

Good advice Dave very thoughtful ...+1


----------



## Dave Colborn

Steve Estrada said:


> Good advice Dave very thoughtful ...+1


I remember stuff I have learned from other smart people over the years. every now and then I even deliver it properly. Thanks.


----------



## Doug Wright 2

Your analogy is spot on. I'll spend some time on this over the weekend and hopefully come back with something positive to report. Not sure if its obvious or not but this is my first working dog and I"m enjoying the hell out of training him. In the beginning I had no clue it was this detailed. I thought all I had to do was pay money and my original trainer would do/provide the rest to include instruction. Boy did I have an awakening.

Thx


----------

