# Rescues for a Reason



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Got a call today about a rescue dog and all the great things it will be able to do...RIGHT! There must be a good reason folks get rid of some dogs. 

I'll figured out that not ALL dogs can or are worth saving. It takes the same time, money, and energy to work with a good one as it does a nutter!!!:-$ 

Yep, there are exceptions to every rule...but look at what the SPCA puts down every day/week and then ask, "What makes it a nonrescue?'


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I agree not all dogs are worth saving. However, I do have 19 single purpose detector dogs that are rescues of some sort. They've come from shelters, dog pounds, homes that were going to get rid of them one way or the other and rescue agencies. Admittedly I probably look at 50 to 60 for every one I select, but still ---- With the price of dogs today, ready to enter training, I feel I'm being a good steward of the State's money. Plus there is something neat in taking a throw away and making it an asset. One of the dogs I have in this class fits that description exactly. A pretty high drive Mal, probably single purpose only, I don't see anything beyond that, but I see a good drug dog coming out of it. So the cost of this class. One GSD $5,500, two green Dutchies (US bred) $3,500 each, a Mal (US bred) 3,500 and one Mal free. The sixth dog belongs to a county deputy. He told me he paid 1,000 for the dog as a puppy.

DFrost


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I'd have to agree with David. They aren't all throw-aways. If you know what you are looking for, you might find a silk purse or two. I actually work with a couple of phenomenal BC rescues and have a good one as well. The have lots of potential for livestock work. Mine had his front leg broke in two places and showed no signs of pain. He's got temperament to die for--no phobias or fear issues whatsoever and he doesn't see a kid as a prey item. Besides there is that companion function and that's way overlooked.


Terrasita


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I just sent a dog out to my Mom in BC from a private rescue.  Perfectly nice big shepherd mix with some basic obedience and a great temperment. Good with kids, cats, other dogs. Sweet and affectionate, mellow in the house, likes to run and play. He is an ideal companion dog for my dear old Mummy - gentle enough to be a good match and fierce enough looking to be a deterrent to bad guys. 

This is his third home. He was stuck in a dog run for six months because no one else wanted him. I have no idea why... he is a great companion dog. Not a working dog, too laid back and easy going, but that's what most people want for a nice pet.










There are dogs in rescue that would be better served by a humane end, but there are a lot more that just need a chance with the right home to be someone's awesome dog.


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Got a call today about a rescue dog and all the great things it will be able to do...RIGHT! There must be a good reason folks get rid of some dogs.
> 
> I'll figured out that not ALL dogs can or are worth saving. It takes the same time, money, and energy to work with a good one as it does a nutter!!!:-$
> 
> Yep, there are exceptions to every rule...but look at what the SPCA puts down every day/week and then ask, "What makes it a nonrescue?'



I think a lot of rescues would be better working dogs if the average pet owner didn't hold on to them for so long, let them run wild, try the latest gimmick with some trainer on TV, etc... By the time they end up at a rescue-if they aren't too old to be taken in as a working dog- they've got so many issues that have to be worked through that it makes them that much harder to train. Some may of course never get through it. Never mind the who knows what they went through as a puppy and probably a lack of proper socialisation, exposure, etc, that its an even bigger crapshoot. You can have a dog with all the great drive in the world, but that's not all it needs to make it a good working dog.

I have a 20mnth old BH pup I got from a rescue at 3 months of age. Her history was known and she was handed over to the rescue because she was too much dog for a young mother of two very young kids going through a divorce (what the heck was she thinking in the first place???). She only had the dogs 2 weeks before she went to the rescue, and that lady had her another week before I got her. I got lucky with her and she's been a joy to train and drive and focus that are exhausting just to watch from a distance. Compare her to my big male with equal ability and drive that I got at just over a year with unknown history. Critter and focus issues will always limit him. If I'd gotten him at a younger age I bet it would be a different story.

But that's just my limited experience with only my few years of training working dogs and I bow to the knowledge of those with more experience than me.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

I rescued a working bred dog that had been dumped by his city owners. He was 7 months old. He is a brilliant dog and my best agility dog and quite handy on stock. He may or maynot have been n even better dog if I had him from scratch. I think he does lack the confidence that my puppy raised dog have but he is still a good dog. But he is always desperate to learn and please me and has a superb temperament.


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

I got my Mal as a rescue almost a year ago. Owner didn't think he was protective enough plus he was stupid and left the 7 mo male out w/his 8 mo Bitch thinking they were too young to know what to do. Albeit the dog has no toy drive he is very food motivated. I am working scent with him and so far has found everything asked of him. His prey drive is contained to chasing chickens, rabbits and horse tails. Don't try to come in the yard either. He does everything I need him to and he's great in public.


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## Pete Shepherd (May 16, 2011)

I would contend that the majority of dogs in rescues are there not because they didn't have what it takes to be a working dog, but primarily through the fault/incompetence/laziness of their previous owners. Most of them, with a little work and guidance, can be great dogs and should get that opportunity. Most don't.

I'm probably in the minority here; I don't think a dog's ability to work equates to the value of it's life. A dog that doesn't have the drive/temperment/size/structure/etc. to work can make an awesome companion dog, and often that's more important than anything.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Pete Shepherd said:


> I would contend that the majority of dogs in rescues are there not because they didn't have what it takes to be a working dog, but primarily through the fault/incompetence/laziness of their previous owners. Most of them, with a little work and guidance, can be great dogs and should get that opportunity. Most don't.
> 
> I'm probably in the minority here; I don't think a dog's ability to work equates to the value of it's life. A dog that doesn't have the drive/temperment/size/structure/etc. to work can make an awesome companion dog, and often that's more important than anything.


I agree with you, Pete. It has to do with proper selection testing. If you need a house dog, test for one. If you need a working dog, test for one. Their value is still strong, if you want a dog to come hang out and walk the yard with you at the end of the day, and they do that. The flip side of the coin is people realizing they don't really need or have time for a dog. My parents are in their eighties, and hung out with my dog when I visited last month. They loved him. We talked though the pros and cons of them owning a dog, and the list of cons was too long for them to be comfortable with and I agree. They aren't getting a dog. If they really get the urge to want one, I'll let them borrow mine for a day or two.

And I hate the term rescue and how it is so loosely used. No one is throwing a life preserver and most people aren't doing anything heroic. They are going and paying the spay neuter fee and getting a dog. Making a purchase. Calling it a rescue is the equivalent to a $230000 personal protection dog in most cases. It is a status symbol. "I rescued a dog, I can be proud of myself for being socially active." My problem with this is once they get the dog home and no one can see them, the dog may suffer, because using the term leads me to believe that that person needs to feel that people need to see them socially active, not actually want a dog. 

This isn't everyone, but I have met a bunch that just shouldn't own dogs. 

I have pure intentions. I have a model for a facility that I will put in place in a few years. It will make money plus find good homes for dogs in shelters. It will make me money and take care of dogs. My intentions are clear and I am also doing good for dogs that are in shelters because stupid people aren't responsible enough to spay or neuter, and our society is too weak to make it happen. Short of killing the stupid, irresponsible people, we have to find a way to place dogs faster than they can breed them or turn them loose at the end of the street next to pretty much every house I have ever lived in.

David Frost gives me hope though. A government employee treating govt money like it's his own, and doing the best for the tax payer and the dogs. What a novel idea. He made a statement on here that could spur other departments to do the same. I enjoy selling dogs, but how many underfunded departments could have a narc dog that tracks in a vari kennel in the back of their tahoe or station wagon, if they just asked David to find them a dog? To me, that is a repeatable rescue effort, funded by the state of Tennessee. Way to go David!!!


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Dave Colborn said:


> And I hate the term rescue and how it is so loosely used. No one is throwing a life preserver and most people aren't doing anything heroic. They are going and paying the spay neuter fee and getting a dog. Making a purchase. Calling it a rescue is the equivalent to a $230000 personal protection dog in most cases. It is a status symbol. "I rescued a dog, I can be proud of myself for being socially active." My problem with this is once they get the dog home and no one can see them, the dog may suffer, because using the term leads me to believe that that person needs to feel that people need to see them socially active, not actually want a dog.
> 
> This isn't everyone, but I have met a bunch that just shouldn't own dogs.
> 
> !!!


Cant say I have met too many that fit the above description. The working dog rescue I got mine from is very specific about the homes they allow their rescues to go to to avoid recycling as most have energy to burn. Some very nice sound, high drive agility dogs have come from this situation. And yes most have been rescued from less than suitable homes or the pound and almost certain euthanaisia as they are quite difficult to rehome and are generally the first to be put down.

I know a lot of people who have taken dogs from rescue because they were looking for a dog and found a dog that suited them, nothing really to do with being socially active. My mother took on an older ex breeding ACD and a few of her elderley friends have found nice more senior dogs as companions simply because they were a good fit.

Certainly in my case I just liked what I saw - a nice active,sound and athletic young dog from a good working background with a very nice temperament, perfect for what I wanted.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

>>>>I'm probably in the minority here; I don't think a dog's ability to work equates to the value of it's life. A dog that doesn't have the drive/temperment/size/structure/etc. to work can make an awesome companion dog, and often that's more important than anything.

I am with you ,, I own 8 dogs, some i work in various sports, and i also have a couple that just never will work , and that s ok with me , they are great dogs... I purchased 3 of these dogs, the rest are rescues, some are hard workers some are not, thats ok, they are ALL my pets...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

and I have a Roger. I don't know what you call a dog that someone dumps in your front yard as a puppy. Well actually, yes I do, you call it a Roger. Worthless as tits on a boarhog, but he has become my buddy. After all these years working with dogs, I just never thought I'd have just a dog.

DFrost


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

I've got 2 like that right now- great house dogs. One actually passed her CGC/TDI test several years ago and we did some therapy work for awhile till I got too busy, now she's "just a dog", along with my other one... Nothing is better when my 3yo godson comes to visit on a sugar high and he is running around my house full speed screamin at the top of his lungs (fortunately I live in the country) and they are lounging about unconcerned... My working dogs-ahhh.. Not so much... They aren't mean in any way but way too much drive and focus to sit around calmly while he does that... Lol...

But not every rescue can be a working dog, and even the ones that have the ability need the proper upbringing in order to really be successful. Its such a crapshoot that for some people its easier to buy dogs that have been bred for it. I've looked at lots and lots of rescue dogs for SAR-most won't make it to my standards. I don't mind searching for the perfect one-they're out there. But I'm just looking for me and can make the decision to travel and take my time. Different story if its a busines I would think...

Right now we've started going through our county's animal control when new dogs are brought in to see if any have potential as working dogs... Some great high energy ranch dogs, but have issues that that would limit them as working dogs-and by working I mean detector dogs or SAR, NOT sport dogs (not enuf ppl use dogs to work livestock around here to know anything about that)... A lot have hidden issues-like one dog I liked for SAR-great drive, focus, etc... Turned out he didn't like to go under stuff- dog door, fence, brush, etc... Bit of a problem for a SAR dog in the environment I work in... Is retraining possible? Sure, but in times of stress the templated response is the earliest learned response, so that issue could crop up at any time and I don't need that...

But again, that's just my experience... I think just about all dogs are worth saving, but people need to be realistic about what they adopt and what they are looking for...


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Good conversation points here! Thanks folks................


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Roger does actually perform a daily task. He brings me the newspaper in the morning. He's very good at it. In fact, some morning I may get two or three. 

DFrost


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

David Frost said:


> some morning I may get two or three.


LMAO :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :-\"


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Roger does actually perform a daily task. He brings me the newspaper in the morning. He's very good at it. In fact, some morning I may get two or three.
> 
> DFrost



:lol: :lol: Had one of those. That was the only time that dog would leave the yard without me. Pissed off more then one neighbor when they starter figuring it out. 
I have to say that one of the three fav dogs I've had was a Humane Society rescue. GSD X Dane that grew up with my daughters.


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## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

I've taken 3 dogs that were rescues and trained them for work. 2 are dual purpose even, both of those guys were GSD's. I did look at lots of dogs before I found them but I figure every time I did look at a dog that did poorly, I got better at looking for what I wanted. The other dog was a hot little lab. The protection finds are rare, finding 2 is amazing. I test dogs often, maybe 3 a week. These are all dogs who need home. I'm pretty picky too. 2 1/2 years old is my cut off, and I really don't even like them that old. I like to look at the typical breed we use- GSD's, Mals, DS, and retrievers of all types. Some rescue groups are a pain in the ass. I was looking for a detecion dog candidate for an agency in LA county. The rescue wanted to inspect the handler's home and have them sign a contract saying they wouldn't do certain things. I told them no way were they going to inspect the handlers home and the dog would be trained and it might not comply with their demmands. I offered them the agencies policy and should them what it says about how the dogs are cared for. I asked them what the dog does while their owners were gone at work. I got all sorts of responses. I then explain that all of their answers left the dog alone at the house or in a kennel. But when a handler goes to work, so does the dog. And they are excited about it too. No a bad gig for them. 

I liked taking someone's problem pet and turning it into a working dog. It's not often but when does happen, it's pretty cool.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

In the last two years, I've seen what people are capable off. 

Especially around military bases, the shelters are bursting and that is pretty much anywhere in the world. 

Anytime the PCS season is oming up, military families get rid of their pets, leaving them behind not caring whats happening. 

It's not because the dogs are bad dogs, it's because of bad owners. When we moved to the US, the tenants of our first house was a military family. They left their cat inside the house, without food and water, they didn't care if she would live or die. 

Another family went through FOUR dogs within a year. FOUR! First dog died of parvo because she wasn't vaccinated, second dog was rehomed because she would pee into the house, third dog was re-homed because she moved back to the US and it was to expensive to take her (yah, right, we took four dogs with us, I know how expensive it is, it's really not that hard if oyu plan ahead and you KNOW that you are moving, so safe some money, moron!) and now she's got a boxer... 

We've had eight shepherds living within our block. Three of them were mine, two got re-homed already. 

A lot of shelters even refuse to adopt out to the military families because of that reason and just take a good look at the shelters around the Bases. 

Yeah, there are difficult dogs, sick dogs that are not worth savings and better off to be humanely euthanized. I just went through that with a Senior dog. And there are a lot of bleeding hearts out there and will railroad you for even using the word euthanazia. 

But to say that dogs are dumped for a good reason and that it is the dogs fault, is closing your eyes from reality. 

This society is a society that will buy and dump as they please... because they can get another dog whenever the hell they want and it's too easy and without a house that you own, two kids, a homecooking wife, a big truck and a dog that'll get your newspaper you surely are not living the American dream...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Sandra King said:


> Especially around military bases, the shelters are bursting and that is pretty much anywhere in the world.
> 
> Anytime the PCS season is oming up, military families get rid of their pets, leaving them behind not caring whats happening.
> 
> ...


I won't argue with most of your post, however you comment about not caring what happens is very general and not always true. Getting PCS can be a very life changing event during peace time. During wartime it can be devastating. Being retired military, I elected not to have pets except for my last overseas assignment. I was then of a rank where I could afford to ship the dog and I knew when my rotation date would be. There are many military that even though they may leave an animal behind, it's not always without caring. I would also guess there are many that have found homes for their pet or in some cases take them with them. I just think a broad brush does disservice to those that try. 

DFrost


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

David Frost said:


> I won't argue with most of your post, however you comment about not caring what happens is very general and not always true. Getting PCS can be a very life changing event during peace time. During wartime it can be devastating. Being retired military, I elected not to have pets except for my last overseas assignment. I was then of a rank where I could afford to ship the dog and I knew when my rotation date would be. There are many military that even though they may leave an animal behind, it's not always without caring. I would also guess there are many that have found homes for their pet or in some cases take them with them. I just think a broad brush does disservice to those that try.
> 
> DFrost


David, my husband is in the military. He's an NCO and just with his paycheck, we safed money to not only ship three dogs but to buy a fourth one and ship it via petair. 

You know that you are moving, it is just a matter of _when_, if you have a pet, safe the money. The airfare is really not that expensive, I paid 250 Euros per dog with United, the puppy was the most expensive one. 

Yeah, not all military families are like that, some go through lengths and heartaches to take their pets wherever they go, they even fly horses into Germany an back to the US. But there are far too many who simply dump their pets once the tour is up and that is reality. If it wasn't like that, the German Shelters around military bases wouldn't be bursting.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

This is one subject that is dear to my heart. I own two Australian shepherd rescues both which had a bad owner beginning. These dogs could not be blamed for what was done to them. I think the most important thing when adopting a rescue is not to treat it like a rescue. Love them but dont coddle them, discipline them for wrong behavior and reward them for good as you would a puppy you raised yourself. If you think "oh you poor baby" because they were mistreated, dumped or starved and let them slide by with one thing or another you will create a bad dog. Earn their trust and help them build confidence thru classes or train at home even simple obedience commands and you will see a dog bloom in front of your eyes. It takes time and patience but when you see the light go back on in their eyes it is so worth it.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Another reason why dogs end up in shelters is because their owners died. As a matter of a fact, since two days I have a boxer/shepherd mix who ended up on death row because her owner died. She got pulled by a rescue (including her sister) and was put into boarding with pondview kennels over in Albany. She's the sweetest girl. Makes you wonder what happens with your dogs if you have no plan in place.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

agree Rescues become rescues for a lot of reasons- but is it a good reason....
one of the guys I used to train with was going to bring a Mal to the pound, because he wasn't intense enough for him....we encouraged him to not bring the dog to the pound and we took that "rescue" and he became a working dog - a very successful Patrol and drug dog on the police dept.
then I got this guy-who was a throw away- actually was being sent back to his breeder- because he was to dominant and aggressive for the family that purchased him- he bit multiple family members and delivery persons... the breeder he came from couldn't take him back and he went to a friend of theirs kennel-who we were friends with ....we were told if we wanted him, get him, because they were putting him down as she couldn't get into the kennel because of him....his name is Cammo, and he is awesome!! I am glad he was a rescue......
​


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Sandra, I'm retired military. I have a little experience with PCS as well. 

DFrost


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

David Frost said:


> Sandra, I'm retired military. I have a little experience with PCS as well.
> 
> DFrost


I figured that an I agree that not all mf's are bad pet owners, just seen way to many in the past two years but then again, it's not just military families, it's the society as a whole. 

I guess a good word to describe it is: "Wegwerfgesellschaft" (Throwaway Society).


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Roger does actually perform a daily task. He brings me the newspaper in the morning. He's very good at it. In fact, some morning I may get two or three.
> 
> DFrost


I'm laughing because many years ago I taught my Lab how to fetch the newspaper as our driveway was very long. We lived in a rural area then. One Sunday morning, I woke to find ALL of the neighbors' papers at my doorstep. It was a hoot of a sight to see me running down the street in my gown quickly tossing papers back in their driveways! Oh but my dog was so so proud. :lol:


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Rescues, redeems, saved, discards, surrenders, doesnt matter what they are called, they end up the same, in a shelter, pound, etc. I just had to chime in on this one. For nearly 10 years I was very active in GermanShepherd rescue, to include a three state area. Was not my wish initially but it just 'happened' when I got the first calls from NewOrleans to foster GSDs not qualified for pet homes, ie, too intelligent, most with really good working qualities. From there, I ended up taking in approx 180 GSD rescues over the next 9 years, most right after Katrina/Rita. After vetting, rehabbing, house manners and basic ob, the problem was finding adequate homes that could accommodate many of these dogs that really needed a job. I was fortunate to locate a group in Shreveport who would then take them from me at that point, further train/cert them in narcotics, patrol, tracking and donate them to small LE agencies who didnt have a large budget. They placed in LE, WLF, HS depts, over three dozen of the GSDs that we rescued. So it can work. Takes a tremendous amount of time and devotion, but oh my, what a reward in the end. Personally, having that many GSDs from such a huge spectrum of breeding, etc, through my home was an invaluable opportunity for me to know that breed entirely. It's been five years since I quit this effort. But actually, now that I have an empty nest have seriously considered reinvolvement.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I have a great admiration for folks that rescue when it's done correctly. I couldn't do it!
Unfortunately I see it way to often that it's closer to hoarding then any actual rescue work.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> I have a great admiration for folks that rescue when it's done correctly. I couldn't do it!
> Unfortunately I see it way to often that it's closer to hoarding then any actual rescue work.


You are so right, it has to be done correctly. The reason I stopped was not due to any 'dog' issues, it was always the 'people' issue that was infuriating. A lot of effort can go into rehabbing these rescues, let alone the $$. Then you find what you would believe is an excellent home and before you know it the dog ends up dumped. GRRR!! This certainly reminds me why I quit rescue in the first place.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

One of the happiest and one of the most depressing moments of my career occur when I find a dog I can use at a dog pound. 

1. I have the opportunity to make something of an animal who's future was might grim. 

2. I see the hundreds of dogs that I can nothing for. 

DFrost


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Denise Gatlin said:


> You are so right, it has to be done correctly. The reason I stopped was not due to any 'dog' issues, it was always the 'people' issue that was infuriating. A lot of effort can go into rehabbing these rescues, let alone the $$. Then you find what you would believe is an excellent home and before you know it the dog ends up dumped. GRRR!! This certainly reminds me why I quit rescue in the first place.


Oh yes, I hear you. Not only that but the way some people close their eyes from reality. Some dogs are beyond saving and all you can do is to humanely euthanize them because they are way too old and way to sick. I just had that case. A 15 year old dog, that couldn't walk. I've had him for six days and then we had to euthanize him because there was not anything we could have done to help him get better and his time was up. 

Holy crap, you can't even use the word euthanazia around some people because they would keep a dog alive at all cost, pump thousands of dollars into a dog like that just to squeeze every single second out of their life. 

That is not how it's done. Not in my opinion and if I see a dog that is vomiting blood, can't walk, is a senior... do that dog a favor and let him go with dignity. Clean him up, show him some love and help him to the bridge. 

I live in the US for seven months now and I've never seen such extremes in my life. 
The sheer amount of pets that are dumped on a daily basis, the strays you see running around, it's a never ending fight that can suck the life an happyness out of you. 

I am actually thinking about kicking some of the rescue pages off of my facebook because as soon as you say one word, you get bombarded in a frenzy it's insane. 

And there are so many bleeding hearts out there... boy oh boy...


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Sandra, you are getting a good dose of the pet problem in the states or at least in my area of the south. Back to the human issue here. Not the loose dog's fault that it gets pregnant every heat, only doing what's natural. But then again we live in a disposable society, including our pets. Sad, but true. And to the fact about rescuers, I can relate. One director of a GSD rescue was emphatic to spend $6000 for surgery for an old GSD and I was livid. I made my exit. Then another group had such stringent adoption requirements a person could have adopted a human child easier. The fosters were staking up and I could take no more. I do know my limits and did honor them for myself, my family and my own dogs. So, with all that said, I no longer get involved in rescue due to the people issue. Havent found a dog I couldnt handle, some I didnt like and many I had E&D'd, but they werent nearly the issue as the people part. 

David, when I was previously involved with a local rescue group consisting of doctor's wives and myself (the grunt), I would go to our local shelter every Tues and Thurs morning just before Dr. Death came to E&D and I would eval and pull 6-8 dogs each visit. These were a variety that I knew we could get adopted. But on each and every visit I would see others that with a little effort would be just as promising and yet when I came back the next visit, of course, they were gone. I did this for nearly 3 years and yes, it took a toll. The only saving grace was that I knew that the group had saved thousands and for those, it made a difference. Needless to say, I havent been back in many years.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Sandra King said:


> I figured that an I agree that not all mf's are bad pet owners, just seen way to many in the past two years but then again, it's not just military families, it's the society as a whole.
> 
> I guess a good word to describe it is: "Wegwerfgesellschaft" (Throwaway Society).


I just reread the last of this post and I totally concur.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

David Frost said:


> I agree not all dogs are worth saving. However, I do have 19 single purpose detector dogs that are rescues of some sort. They've come from shelters, dog pounds, homes that were going to get rid of them one way or the other and rescue agencies. Admittedly I probably look at 50 to 60 for every one I select, but still ---- With the price of dogs today, ready to enter training, I feel I'm being a good steward of the State's money. Plus there is something neat in taking a throw away and making it an asset. One of the dogs I have in this class fits that description exactly. A pretty high drive Mal, probably single purpose only, I don't see anything beyond that, but I see a good drug dog coming out of it. So the cost of this class. One GSD $5,500, two green Dutchies (US bred) $3,500 each, a Mal (US bred) 3,500 and one Mal free. The sixth dog belongs to a county deputy. He told me he paid 1,000 for the dog as a puppy.
> 
> DFrost


What I found with most shelter dogs that I evaluated over the years, there are many that would make good single purpose detector dogs but rarely any that would do any bitework. The reason I assume is that as puppies or young dogs in a family setting, they are severely punished for biting, thus exhibit bite inhibition as adults. If the do continue to bite, unsolicited, as adults then they end up at the shelter for E&D and can not be adopted out. Just my observation. We are in the "sportsman's paradise" state and are inundated with Labradors and other retrievers in our shelters and many have the drive to work in detection. Just sayin'. \\/


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Denise Gatlin said:


> What I found with most shelter dogs that I evaluated over the years, there are many that would make good single purpose detector dogs but rarely any that would do any bitework. The reason I assume is that as puppies or young dogs in a family setting, they are severely punished for biting, thus exhibit bite inhibition as adults. If the do continue to bite, unsolicited, as adults then they end up at the shelter for E&D and can not be adopted out. Just my observation. We are in the "sportsman's paradise" state and are inundated with Labradors and other retrievers in our shelters and many have the drive to work in detection. Just sayin'. \\/


I think you are onto something beause I wouldn't be surprised if that is exactly what it is. Just look at the German Shepherd Forum. Every day you have people coming in complaining about their puppies being "aggressive" because they bite so much. 

My male is the best example. He comes from terrific working lines, he went into the wrong hands where he not only got punished but went through a sheer amount of abuse. Two dogs died in this handlers hands. 
He was one of two dogs that got ruined by handlers in the 30 years my parents are breeding. 

The other one was Dixie. Boy, she did great in protection but feared obedience, she was with somebody in Switzerland and came back AFTER they ruined her. They used so much compulsion in obedience that she was squished. She wouldn't go near any men, after she came back and I rehabed her. She later on went into a single woman home where she thrived for the rest of her life and my male was rehabed to the point where a very knowledgable SAR person (from a neighboring team) wanted him to become a cadaver dog because he's got everything it takes. 

Anyhow, my male loves tracking an scent work. One reason dogs thrive in scent work is because you can work them with pretty much no compulsion and pressure, it strenghtens the bond between the dog and the handler and they gain tons of confidence. 
It's a confidence booster. If you have an abused, neglected, fearful dog... especially tracking can help those dogs tremendously if they are food driven.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

I can't get on any German Shepherd Forums because after having had the breed for nearly 50 years, it makes my blood boil to see how the GSD has been exploited and 'dumbed down' for the show ring here in the states.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I heard from some "animal foks" that due to the economy, more and more foks are turning back already rescued dogs and cats. The sad part is many got a new lease on life and now may get put down!:-k


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I heard from some "animal foks" that due to the economy, more and more foks are turning back already rescued dogs and cats. The sad part is many got a new lease on life and now may get put down!:-k



It's true where I do shelter work, Howard. The shelters are bursting with the animals of people who now can't afford the food (or the vet), or who have lost their homes.

We have two area shelters and in the past had the luxury of welcoming Central Valley and also out-of-state disaster-area shelters to get their overflow to us. Now .... now our training club members are taking dogs to foster for the overwhelmed shelters. 

It's a tide of surrendered animals (dogs, here, in the majority).


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

With this "throw away society," I'm guessing they aren't many GOOD women being cast out for the pickings...:-k8-[


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> With this "throw away society," I'm guessing they aren't many GOOD women being cast out for the pickings...:-k8-[


Why, are you looking?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Denise Gatlin said:


> Why, are you looking?


 LOL always looking for that SPECIAL something I don't have...=D>


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

:lol::-\":-D!!!!


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## Christie Meyer (Nov 15, 2009)

I ran the North American Dutch Shepherd rescue since its inception 6 years ago until a few months ago. I stepped aside for a while because of people, not dogs. There are many dogs that need help, and very few people actually doing anything about it. I can respect everyone's reasons for not wanting to take in a foster dog... What I couldn't deal with is other people's ability to respect me when I said I was full. I have 4 fosters right now, and still I would be inundated with emails and phone calls about other dogs that were on deaths door step. When I had no resources to help them, I was the scape-goat. Those people couldn't possibly feel guilty, so they blame the girl 500 miles away who could do nothing. Those emails are awesome.

I think that many rescue dogs can work. But I have had roughly 100 DS come through my home for foster care in the last 6 years. Of those, only 3 have been workable and placed on departments. The others all went to good pet homes. 

Most DS that are in rescue are there for one of two reasons: 1-they didn't have the drive to cut it as a working dog. 2-they had more drive than their owners wanted to deal with and the owners had no idea what they were getting into. However, to the average person, the crappiest DS/mal/GSD is still pretty crazy and therefore awesome. I think that rescue is being fueled by people thinking they can make money by producing litters. Those people are horribly surprised when there is NO market for puppies out of backyard crap. And if you can sell your puppies, it is often to idiots who think they are SOOOOO CUUUUTE and then dump them when they become SOOOOOO much work.

I truly may punch the next person who posts a litter that is so amazing because the parents haven't done anything, there are no health clearances, but OH, OH, OH - the parents are out of some famous dog. And not only are they out of some famous dog, but the breeder is SURE they would be great working dogs.....if only they were worked.

Sorry - guess I'm still jaded.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

> I ran the North American Dutch Shepherd rescue since its inception 6 years ago until a few months ago. I stepped aside for a while because of people, not dogs. There are many dogs that need help, and very few people actually doing anything about it. I can respect everyone's reasons for not wanting to take in a foster dog... What I couldn't deal with is other people's ability to respect me when I said I was full. I have 4 fosters right now, and still I would be inundated with emails and phone calls about other dogs that were on deaths door step. When I had no resources to help them, I was the scape-goat. Those people couldn't possibly feel guilty, so they blame the girl 500 miles away who could do nothing. Those emails are awesome.


That happens a lot on facebook. Some people are beyond reality. When I had that Senior dog I got so many mails if I couldn't take some other Seniors in too.
No, one disaster case is more than enough to handle and I have three of my own dogs to care for. 
Now I've got two fosters and I was very clear that this all I can take. I wouldn't take more than two fosters. Some people just don't respect that at all and still send messages if you can't do anything about this or that dog. Honestly, I am not doing this for as long as you do but I am very quick in cutting drama out of my life and if this keeps going, those will be my last fosters and I don't care how many sit out in those shelters and could make great dogs. It's not my fault they sit out there and I have no issue to quit before it gets too much. 

Quality over Quantity. Doesn't matter what you do. If breeding or rescuing, quality goes over quantity.


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## mike finn (Jan 5, 2011)

Sandra King said:


> In the last two years, I've seen what people are capable off.
> 
> Especially around military bases, the shelters are bursting and that is pretty much anywhere in the world.
> 
> ...


Do you say things to push peoples buttons. I live in a military town, I did eight years active duty, and I am still in the reserves. The military people are no worse than any one else. Unfortunatly military people get deployed, divorced or seperated form their job(the military) just like every one else. People also have different priorities than their pets. Yours may change if you have kids.You may be a dog fanatic(like I am) but others are not. In America we are less restrictive ,and have a more free society than were you may be from. We do not have many rules about dogs like many places in Europe do. If a dog is not working out for a family, why not rehome it? It is not a kid. People who have working dogs do it all the time. 
I have met some "rescue people". Some are ok, but most have that hollier than you attitude like you are seem to have. I went to a rescue shelter in Wyomiing and they had the dogs in tiny pens , soome of them for ever. I tried to get a dog, but the the lady runnng it was bat shit crazy. I came back months later and the dog was still in that tiny pen.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Mike, I don't say to push peoples buttons, it's the truth. Do you know how full the Heidelberg shelter is anytime people go back home? Those dogs are from America, not Germany. Why should we have to care for American dogs just because Americans won't spend the money or time to take their dogs back home? If they at least would rehome them but no, they dump them at the shelter or simply leave them in the apartment to die without water and food. 
And that is not just a problem in Heidelberg, it's a problem in Italy too. They have enough of their own problems, they don't need American dogs on top of it. Or Japan, same thing. 

Anywhere you see military families, there are overflowing shelters. And like I said, we are a military family. My husband is in the military and we managed to bring all our dogs with us because we planned ahead. The families KNOW that they are moving, it's a matter of when and you can safe money for that purpose. It's not like they don't know that they have to PCS and can't plan ahead for that day by safing money to ship their pets! I don't buy the "We are in the military" excuse at all, especially since we are a military family ourselves!

Darmstadt: http://www.stripes.com/news/enforcing-pet-abandonment-policy-is-difficult-for-bases-1.57085

Kaiserslautern: http://www.stripes.com/news/kaiserslautern-shelter-won-t-house-u-s-pets-1.100383
Heidelberg Article from 2009 is already gone
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/10/airforce_abandoned_pets_102409w/

Georgia: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7475495/ns/health-pet_health

South Korea: http://www.stripes.com/news/abandoned-military-pets-wait-for-adoption-at-yongsan-1.53212

That is NOT right! 




mike finn said:


> Do you say things to push peoples buttons. I live in a military town, I did eight years active duty, and I am still in the reserves. The military people are no worse than any one else. Unfortunatly military people get deployed, divorced or seperated form their job(the military) just like every one else. People also have different priorities than their pets. Yours may change if you have kids.You may be a dog fanatic(like I am) but others are not. In America we are less restrictive ,and have a more free society than were you may be from. We do not have many rules about dogs like many places in Europe do. If a dog is not working out for a family, why not rehome it? It is not a kid. People who have working dogs do it all the time.
> I have met some "rescue people". Some are ok, but most have that hollier than you attitude like you are seem to have. I went to a rescue shelter in Wyomiing and they had the dogs in tiny pens , soome of them for ever. I tried to get a dog, but the the lady runnng it was bat shit crazy. I came back months later and the dog was still in that tiny pen.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ah.

I thought I understood the difference between the US and Germany: 

"Police K9 H&B only?"


Sandra King said:


> The difference between the US and Germany is that it doesn't end up in the news anytime a K9 takes down a criminal. ...


and:
"Medical System Sucks"


Sandra King said:


> Last year when I had an "open nerv" situation I walked into the Hospital, in Heidelberg, they pulled the wisdom tooth and I was sent back home. ... Over here I called over ten dentists in town and the surrounding area. NONE will take me in right away.


But now I see that it's much broader: 


Sandra King said:


> Do you know how full the Heidelberg shelter is anytime people go back home? Those dogs are from America, not Germany. Why should we have to care for American dogs just because Americans won't spend the money or time to take their dogs back home?


:lol: :lol:

I sense a pattern ....

All of the above is my personal opinion.

The following is my moderator opinion:
This is the wrong board for a political agenda. A political discussion board would be better.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Ah.
> 
> I thought I understood the difference between the US and Germany:
> 
> ...


What pattern? The truth about the issues of military families abandoning pets? It's a well known issue and going on for a long time. It doesn't have to do anything with me. Just read the articles. They were written by Americans, by the way. 

And yeah, it does suck. Would you sit by if German families would abandon German dogs for year, after year, after year once their tour was up in the US? Or would you do something about it? 

I can't imagine the outrage of the American public if there was German bases all over the country and those military families would abandon their pets, that came from Germany, year after year and the American public had to pay for it with their tax dollars.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

> "Police K9 H&B only?"


And that was a compliment. It's a good thing that K9's get the attention they deserve over here and it's a good thing that they get public funerals, and that people actually love their K9's. You don't find that in Germany at all. It has it's disadvantages since you have to watch your back because if you screw up the press WILL cover it, but overall I love that the dogs get so much attention. So that wasn't negative at all.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sandra King said:


> What pattern? The truth about the issues of military families abandoning pets?


Nope. I think it's clear what I'm saying: a political agenda in general belongs elsewhere. 

I'm saying that if you're here with a political agenda (based, for example, on comparisons between this country and another [no matter which one happens to be the one you're "for"] in thread after thread), this is not the right board for it.

So no, this isn't so much about one topic as it is about steering clear of politics in general.


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## Shawn Reed (Nov 9, 2010)

Sandra, from your posts it seems you are pretty discontent with how things work in the US. It's a free country, you can move back to Germany if you think it's so much better there.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Nope. I think it's clear what I'm saying: a political agenda in general belongs elsewhere.
> 
> I'm saying that if you're here with a political agenda (based, for example, on comparisons between this country and another [no matter which one happens to be the one you're "for"] in thread after thread), this is not the right board for it.
> 
> So no, this isn't so much about one topic as it is about steering clear of politics in general.


Urm, I have no political agenda and my post has NOTHING to do with politics at all.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sandra King said:


> And that was a compliment. It's a good thing that K9's get the attention they deserve over here and it's a good thing that they get public funerals, and that people actually love their K9's. You don't find that in Germany at all. It has it's disadvantages since you have to watch your back because if you screw up the press WILL cover it, but overall I love that the dogs get so much attention. So that wasn't negative at all.


This isn't so much about one topic, or even about whether you find this country disappointing; it's about steering clear of politics in general. 



Sandra King said:


> ... I have no political agenda and my post has NOTHING to do with politics at all.


Well, then, I'm wrong. That has certainly happened before. One time, I recall, back in the 1900s ..... :lol:


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Shawn Reed said:


> Sandra, from your posts it seems you are pretty discontent with how things work in the US. It's a free country, you can move back to Germany if you think it's so much better there.


Actually I am not discontent and not everything is better in Germany. Both countries have their advantages and disadvantages.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

> Well, then, I'm wrong. That has certainly happened before. One time, I recall, back in the 1900s .....





> This isn't so much about one topic as it is about steering clear of politics in general.


I don't talk about politics or religion on forums anymore and I try to stay away from WWII discussions because that is one topic I am pationate about. 

However, this topic is about rescues and most of the experience I've made with military families dumping their pets and it's mainly happening overseas when it's time to PCS. It's not political, it's about military families taking responsibility for their actions and that is including myself. Since my husband is in the military we represent the US Military and so does every other US Military Family overseas but what picture do those families leave behind if they abandon their pets and leave them to die in a locked apartment without food or water or if they abandon them in the street? 

So it is about the topic. And by the way, since I am part of that community, when I tried to adopt two Senior Shepherds I was told that I couldn't adopt them because my husband is in the military and that happened in my own country. They did not care that I was German just as much as they were. I'm married to a Soldier, that makes us a military family and they do not adopt to military families anymore.

Sorry, I'll stop now. It's just one theme that really bugs me. Mainly because it leaves a bad picture of every military family in foreign countries and I am proud of what my husband does.


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

To Christie Meyer: please don't give up. Sounds like you're one of the good ones out there who really has the dogs best interest at heart. You are one of the believers who GIVE RESCUES A REASON.


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## mike finn (Jan 5, 2011)

Sandra King said:


> What pattern? The truth about the issues of military families abandoning pets? It's a well known issue and going on for a long time. It doesn't have to do anything with me. Just read the articles. They were written by Americans, by the way.
> 
> And yeah, it does suck. Would you sit by if German families would abandon German dogs for year, after year, after year once their tour was up in the US? Or would you do something about it?
> 
> I can't imagine the outrage of the American public if there was German bases all over the country and those military families would abandon their pets, that came from Germany, year after year and the American public had to pay for it with their tax dollars.


 There is a reason there is no Geman bases here. lol. And Really being a German I think your country has benefited from our tax dollars more than the reverse,lol. But all kidding aside, yes there are owners who do not plan ahead in the military, just like any where else. But it is not worse there than any where else. Look the military is a transient life style, throw in the amount of divorces and families that break up over so many long deployments, it is just going to happen some times that people have to rehome there dog. Or other times the dog is not a good fit for the family. That is a perfectly good reason to rehome the dog. 
I work part time security at a private island, and the nephew of a very rich well known author just got a few grand in tickets for abandonong his dog with out food or water. It happens every where. I would have felt better if this guy took his dog to the pound. A lot of young people are not responsible, and the military has a lot of young guys. But most of them are more responsible than civilians of the same age.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Sandra King said:


> I don't talk about politics or religion on forums anymore and I try to stay away from WWII discussions because that is one topic I am pationate about.
> 
> However, this topic is about rescues and most of the experience I've made with military families dumping their pets and it's mainly happening overseas when it's time to PCS. It's not political, it's about military families taking responsibility for their actions and that is including myself. Since my husband is in the military we represent the US Military and so does every other US Military Family overseas but what picture do those families leave behind if they abandon their pets and leave them to die in a locked apartment without food or water or if they abandon them in the street?
> 
> ...


 We here in the states are not without our "nasty" past by a long shot. Sandra I feel like your sensitivity to it (WWII) is your want to disconnect yourself personally from the objectionable actions of others. We here have slavery and other objectionable things in our past that we would rather not "revisit". But the answer is not to sweep it under the rug of history but to be diligent and not allow it to happen again..... Indeed we should study it and do our best to understand it. JMO 

ps my son is a military man with a family. I think your husbands being in the military is honorable and commendable. I hold anyone who serves their country in high regard.


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