# Preparing for PSA after IPO



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Looking for any advice/techniques/tips/tricks/whatever on training basically all the exercises and elements that are "foreign" to us being that we came from IPO such as starting the carjacking scenario training, the decoy being present and throwing distractions during OB, the food distraction during the long down, or anything else you can think of. I know I can just "wing it" and train in whatever way makes sense to me, but knowing how many little tricks are used for aspects of IPO I wanted to see what was out there for these aspects of PSA. Presently, we've been working on and have reliable targeting, and working on dog the pushing into the decoy vice pulling. Thanks!


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

How are you training now? IPO dogs freak out when something unexpected happens. PSA is built around something unexpected happening. 

If you go through the points for _all_ PSA titles, the OB routine or exercises themselves change very little, the distraction levels increase. In the 2 and 3s there are agility style stuff the dog has to do with distractions. That should tell you something. I started out with my guy and our new pup that impulse control means they get a bite. Jerry Bradshaw wrote a pretty cool article on the PSA site that outlines a progression on the PSA1 AoH (http://psak9.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/PreparingHandlerAttack.pdf)

Carjack specifically. I'd do it just like attack on the handler. Not in a car, have your decoy approach you and the dog going through the "hey do you have any money" stuff. No pressure, no eye contact from the decoy, and give the dog a bite on a wedge or tug, something easy. The deal with the Carjack is that there is no visual equipment for the dog to que on. No sleeve, no tug, no suit, no suit pants, nadda. As the dog get comfortable, start introducing things. More pressure, in the car, etc etc. Untill you can do the whole thing. Just sticking him in the car and shoving a hidden sleeve in his face won't work. Its the easiest of the 3 scenarios in a PDC to train.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Ted Summers said:


> How are you training now? IPO dogs freak out when something unexpected happens. PSA is built around something unexpected happening.
> 
> If you go through the points for _all_ PSA titles, the OB routine or exercises themselves change very little, the distraction levels increase. In the 2 and 3s there are agility style stuff the dog has to do with distractions. That should tell you something. I started out with my guy and our new pup that impulse control means they get a bite. Jerry Bradshaw wrote a pretty cool article on the PSA site that outlines a progression on the PSA1 AoH (http://psak9.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/PreparingHandlerAttack.pdf)
> 
> Carjack specifically. I'd do it just like attack on the handler. Not in a car, have your decoy approach you and the dog going through the "hey do you have any money" stuff. No pressure, no eye contact from the decoy, and give the dog a bite on a wedge or tug, something easy. The deal with the Carjack is that there is no visual equipment for the dog to que on. No sleeve, no tug, no suit, no suit pants, nadda. As the dog get comfortable, start introducing things. More pressure, in the car, etc etc. Untill you can do the whole thing. Just sticking him in the car and shoving a hidden sleeve in his face won't work. Its the easiest of the 3 scenarios in a PDC to train.


A large part of why I am transitioning this dog to PSA rather than IPO is because of that, and I kept getting told he was made for PSA not IPO. I also get/got annoyed with all the pattern training and conditioning that takes place in IPO... I take my time to actually teach (what I believe to be) correctly... for example I want to see my dogs fully ready for a helper to be in any blind (or a anywhere else I send them for that matter), and almost never run blinds in order we just run whatever order I feel like (usually disorder). I don't do toys at the end of the field to get something that looks like a straight sendout but really isn't... I carefully try to manage how my dogs work in drive, how we train, etc, to ensure the guarding is real, and works outside of a blind, without a sleeve, and that there is true intent behind it all... still you can not train that way in IPO and likely get as good or better points than me and more quickly but to me if it just "looks like protection" whats the point?

That being said, I doubt my dogs would "freak out" from it not "looking like IPO".. our IPO training never did look the same from day to day anyway. 

While I don't think just sticking the dog in the car and shoving a hidden sleeve in his face was going to be our plan, I'm not sure what I'm trying to accomplish with what you mentioned... dog's already IPO titled so thats certainly not something we haven't already done a bunch.... any particular way people prefer to introduce a hidden sleeve?


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

:lol:

It sounds as if you're on the right track and you're....... better prepared for PSA. I didn't suggest that you'd just shove a sleeve in his face but you wouldn't believe (actually, you probably would) so of the sh!t I've been told or seen from 'famous' trainers. In my short time in PSA I've learned it's about control..... control.... control. Then pressure..... and more pressure.... and more pressure. In some ways it requires a more balanced dog (and handler) in terms of temperament and confidence. You get control under pressure = success. Or pressure under control, I'm not sure yet :lol:. I think (and have been) teaching the exercises then introducing pressure with the exercises until it's no longer pressure to the dog. 

It sounds like you're on the right track. One thing you'll find is the PSA people are way more willing to talk about _HOW_ they train something or _WHY_ they train it that way. There are not a lot of secrets. IPO? you'd think it was a state secret.....and it's a mind set. We have 4 IPO clubs in town, that don't talk to each other or train with each other for fear of giving something away. Yet, a member from another PSA club will be here this weekend for a family reunion and shot me a text and asked if he could come out and train with us. Good luck


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Ted Summers said:


> :lol:
> 
> It sounds as if you're on the right track and you're....... better prepared for PSA. I didn't suggest that you'd just shove a sleeve in his face but you wouldn't believe (actually, you probably would) so of the sh!t I've been told or seen from 'famous' trainers. In my short time in PSA I've learned it's about control..... control.... control. Then pressure..... and more pressure.... and more pressure. In some ways it requires a more balanced dog (and handler) in terms of temperament and confidence. You get control under pressure = success. Or pressure under control, I'm not sure yet :lol:. I think (and have been) teaching the exercises then introducing pressure with the exercises until it's no longer pressure to the dog.
> 
> It sounds like you're on the right track. One thing you'll find is the PSA people are way more willing to talk about _HOW_ they train something or _WHY_ they train it that way. There are not a lot of secrets. IPO? you'd think it was a state secret.....and it's a mind set. We have 4 IPO clubs in town, that don't talk to each other or train with each other for fear of giving something away. Yet, a member from another PSA club will be here this weekend for a family reunion and shot me a text and asked if he could come out and train with us. Good luck


Thanks! Yeah its not that I meant it like there were secrets per se, but everyones got their little "oh I fix that with this" little tools they've put in their toolbox over time... like using platforms for teaching the sendout, or whatever... some share more readily than others. I don't care about competing or who gets more points than me... I just want to see the picture or end goal realized that is pleasing to me 

The nearest PSA people are probably Jerry, but still too far to make regular trips... we are the only IPO club in town, and we are quite new at that (thus the knowledge gathering . And my decoy is literally starting decoy work on my dogs lol. Every first for the dogs are now also firsts for him


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## kerry engels (Nov 7, 2010)

For PSA you need good control with extreme distraction. They need the drive, nerves and courage to go through hell for a bite, and like it.


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## Darryl Richey (Jul 3, 2006)

Hunter, I might have missed it somewhere, but where are you located?

Darryl


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Darryl Richey said:


> Hunter, I might have missed it somewhere, but where are you located?
> 
> Darryl


Charleston, SC


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

You're on the east coast and it seems like they have a decoy camp every weekend out there. The director of decoys is a nice guy and good resource out there Plus, all you need for a club is 3 people and it sounds like you've got 2. With 3 you can be 'official' and PSA will help you set up a seminar to run you through training, trialing, decoying, etc over 2 days for your members.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

If you already have a title Sch dog then if you are going for PDC or level 1, I think you should focus working on down your dog in front of a decoy while he is trying to distract your dog with distractions, train for everything, like balls throwing in front of him, rag jerk in front of him, scary stuff throw behind him... and work on long down with food in front of him, the rest of the OB is pretty easy if your dog already is a title sch dog, as for protection, I would start introduce a lot of distractions like bottle curtains, huge hula hoops..., first I would make it easy for the dog to go through it, then slowly making it harder by closing the space that he has to go through, and good targeting of the left bicep is the key for decoy and dog safety on the courage test. Good training.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Ted Summers said:


> You're on the east coast and it seems like they have a decoy camp every weekend out there. The director of decoys is a nice guy and good resource out there Plus, all you need for a club is 3 people and it sounds like you've got 2. With 3 you can be 'official' and PSA will help you set up a seminar to run you through training, trialing, decoying, etc over 2 days for your members.


I was at the last decoy camp a few months back. You need three members to be a club?


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