# 10 month Malinois learning to hunt inside



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

This is Barry hunting for a metal pipe at 10 months old. I think this puppy has potential.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO-U9WqdU0I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekdxJ1SrubA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T70L4anCVFQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09GGuT4uU18


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Good on ya for teaching independent hunting skills. Nice.

Are all the dogs you posted vids of today from your breeding program, or were they imports?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Good on ya for teaching independent hunting skills. Nice.
> 
> Are all the dogs you posted vids of today from your breeding program, or were they imports?


Thanks Konnie,
Only one of them is from my breeding program, most of last years puppies born here have already gone to Customs. The others were imported.


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## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

I think this dog is my favourite - which one did you breed out of curiousity?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Sam Bishop said:


> I think this dog is my favourite - which one did you breed out of curiousity?


 Yeah, he is the youngest one, but he is my favorite one also in the hunting portion of the work.
The one that I am handling in the 3 dog muzzle attack video is one that was bred here from Arko X Hannah.
The others in these videos were imported from Europe.


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## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

They're all nice of course - and your decoy is very good natured/brave:-D


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Is this a new room for the dog or does he train in here all the time?


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Good work Mike! As always. =D>


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

EXCELLENT!
This is the sort of scent work that homebodys looking for a SAR team with the "My dog can find his toy" mentality need to see.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Is this a new room for the dog or does he train in here all the time?


Those videos were shot in 3 different rooms. He has been in that school about 3 times over the last week. We have access to the whole school, the 3 dogs in the detection videos were in those rooms for the first time when we shot the videos. They have worked in about 15 different rooms in that school so far. At some point of course they will have to see the same rooms again. But I like to use a new room as often as I can.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> EXCELLENT!
> This is the sort of scent work that homebodys looking for a SAR team with the "My dog can find his toy" mentality need to see.


Thanks Bob!
This also shows a little about what I am always trying to explain to people about drive for a metal pipe. That 10 month old puppy will hunt for at least a documented 18 minutes for a metal pipe(tested a few days ago with a stop watch). It is getting very hard to take a pipe from him now. When I say "metal retriever" he is the type of dog I am talking about.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2010)

Why would he be less of a talent if he did the same thing, but for a paper plate? Or a shoe? 

I am never going to get this. 

One day you say: "It's just what my particular customer wants...I don't think it's not _neccesarily_ critical. In fact, I have a some _great_ searchers who're going elsewhere because this one customer just needs a _metal retriever."_

And yet, days like this you say what an impressive feat this metal shit is...straight up because it's metal.

I think you should send Labs to customs (or wherever) with Slayer kerchiefs tied around their necks.

See, mother****ers...there's your metal retrievers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyBIkEeogq4











P.S. I am indeed trying to annoy you.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2010)

In fact, I think the kerchief idea would impress them even more.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> Why would he be less of a talent if he did the same thing, but for a paper plate? Or a shoe?
> 
> I am never going to get this.
> 
> ...


OK Steve......I will try this again. (by the way, you are not annoying me)
If I myself am going to train a dog to find a target odor, I dont care what reward he prefers, I will test him with many things and find what he likes best and use that.
BUT, 95% of my business is to find dogs that my customer wants, not what I want. And since one of my biggest customers wants metal retrievers, my wife and kids are fed by my ability to provide metal retrievers.
Now, lets use this 10 month old Mali as an example. He has excellent drive for a metal pipe, even better drive for a PVC pipe, even better drive still for a tug toy, and his eyes pop out of socket for a tennis ball. I use the metal pipe because if he hunts like this and works this hard for the pipe, which only motivates him about half as much as a tennis ball does, then I know when he starts to get tired and run out of gas 6 hours into a day shift when it is 110 degrees that I can switch to a tennis ball and bring him back into drive again.
My point has always been that a dog that will truely show intensity for something like a metal pipe which is hard and uncomfortable in his mouth, yet he is still an idiot for it, chasing it, hunting for it, tugging and fighting with you over it, etc, will always be even crazier for a softer and more comfortable toy. So the metal pipe is only a measure of intensity to retrieve.
If your football coach told you that by September he wanted to see you bench press 300 lbs, and he came in the weight room the end of August and saw you pressing 350 lbs then he does not need to see you press 300 lbs next week at the deadline, it is a given that you can do that.
I see many dogs that have good ball drive but will not even pick up a metal pipe, let alone fight to keep it. However I have never seen a dog that is crazy for metal that would not be even crazier for a ball.
It is just a measuring stick, it has nothing to do with whether or not a dog can do scentwork.
It seams to me that the only people who think this is a stupid test is the people who have tried it and discovered that their dogs wont do it.:razz: (now maybe that annoys you???)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Ok, ok, ok, so if you have a dog, that hunts like the one in the video, but doesn't particularly care for metal pipe, at least not to the level of your client can I give you my address or do you just want me to come pick it up. 

DFrost


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Ok, ok, ok, so if you have a dog, that hunts like the one in the video, but doesn't particularly care for metal pipe, at least not to the level of your client can I give you my address or do you just want me to come pick it up.
> 
> DFrost


 Actually David, I have several like him here now. It would be better to come and pick him up so that you can pick between a few of them. Bring a trailer (and a department P.O. or check) and take 3 or 4 of them.:razz:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Check???? oh I thought maybe you'd be looking for good homes for them, ha ha. Seriously, next time I'm buying, we'll talk for real. Trailer and vehicle aren't a problem and WV isn't all that far. 

DFrost


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Check???? oh I thought maybe you'd be looking for good homes for them, ha ha. Seriously, next time I'm buying, we'll talk for real. Trailer and vehicle aren't a problem and WV isn't all that far.
> 
> DFrost


Well, I am looking for good homes for them. Good homes who have checkbooks.:-D


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2010)

Don't take me for thinking it's stupid, because I don't. I get why you do it. There's practical customer service implications.

It's just that in dealing with other breeds in particular, I just don't see how it's terribly relevant. My brain still holds out on the possiblity that maybe, in your chosen breeds/lines that some of these traits just end being being associated with each other most of the time...even if, theoretically, they dont' neccesarily cause eachother.

Now, I haven't seen any dogs in person really being pushed to crazy environmental limits, but the sharpest looking detection dogs I've personally seen were springer spaniels...and I just can't imagine a whole lot of thought being put into what they'll tolerate in their mouths. 

Because if you reverse engineer this, you could obviously have a dog who'll eat nails but not give a crap about searching.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Is this dog out of one of your breedings ? He hunts real well.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Is this dog out of one of your breedings ? He hunts real well.


No, this one was imported. He does hunt real well for sure, especially for a puppy. He will make a great dual purpose dog.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> No, this one was imported. He does hunt real well for sure, especially for a puppy. He will make a great dual purpose dog.


So, the best ones are still imported ??

Reminds me of when I asked my Mother to teach me how to make bread..it was edible, but I know she left something out of the recipe on purpose because it wasn't quite the same


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> So, the best ones are still imported ??


I would not say that. this is a very nice young dog, but I have raised several just as good as him that were born here. In fact I just sold two 8 month old Dutchies from the Arko X Djenna "N" litter to Border Patrol that were maybe a little better. I am not sure if this 10 month old will pass that test yet or not, but he will soon for sure.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> I would not say that. this is a very nice young dog, but I have raised several just as good as him that were born here. In fact I just sold two 8 month old Dutchies from the Arko X Djenna "N" litter to Border Patrol that were maybe a little better. I am not sure if this 10 month old will pass that test yet or not, but he will soon for sure.


I have no doubt you produce nice dogs, that guy looked pretty comfortable though. :smile:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I have no doubt you produce nice dogs, that guy looked pretty comfortable though. :smile:


Yeah, he is a nice puppy for sure.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike, I don't think David is a big fan of Mals. Maybe you should find a nice Dobe for him. :twisted:


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Mike,

How is this done? Do you tease the dog with the pipe, run in to the room, hide it and then let the dog in?

Also, perhaps a dumb question, do you find this to be a separate drive or is simply an extension of intense drive for an object? Are there dogs with as much drive for the pipe as this guy but less "search drive" search for less time before giving up or would that simply be an indication of a dog lacking drive for the object?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> Mike,
> 
> How is this done? Do you tease the dog with the pipe, run in to the room, hide it and then let the dog in?
> 
> Also, perhaps a dumb question, do you find this to be a separate drive or is simply an extension of intense drive for an object? Are there dogs with as much drive for the pipe as this guy but less "search drive" search for less time before giving up or would that simply be an indication of a dog lacking drive for the object?


 For the first few hides we do it like you described. At this point we pull in the school and hide one object each in a few rooms. Then we go get the dog from the truck and walk him into those rooms and tell him to search. 
To answer your second question: there are some dogs who have intense drive to play with an object, but not much drive to search for it. But usually if a dog has really intense play drive for all objects, and is very possesive over each of those objects then he will search hard to find them.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

This Barry dog is a nice dog with nice hunt Mike. JMO


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> OK Steve......I will try this again. (by the way, you are not annoying me)
> If I myself am going to train a dog to find a target odor, I dont care what reward he prefers, I will test him with many things and find what he likes best and use that.
> BUT, 95% of my business is to find dogs that my customer wants, not what I want. And since one of my biggest customers wants metal retrievers, my wife and kids are fed by my ability to provide metal retrievers.
> Now, lets use this 10 month old Mali as an example. He has excellent drive for a metal pipe, even better drive for a PVC pipe, even better drive still for a tug toy, and his eyes pop out of socket for a tennis ball. I use the metal pipe because if he hunts like this and works this hard for the pipe, which only motivates him about half as much as a tennis ball does, then I know when he starts to get tired and run out of gas 6 hours into a day shift when it is 110 degrees that I can switch to a tennis ball and bring him back into drive again.
> ...


When I was a small kid one of my dad's hunting buddies had this golden and it was relentless pest with toys so he would toss his finger nail clipper or Zippo lighter as far as he could into the alfalfa field to get rid of the dog for a wile dog always came back with the clippers or the liter.
Like I said I was just a little kid I have no clue or understanding of what this dog was about I do remember him being talked about as one of the star hunting dogs in the crew and the clippers and lighter thing as I recall was also used to show off also.
I always think about this dog and wonder when you bring up the pipe crazy dogs.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

How would I start to train this, (as kinda mentioned earlier), show him his suede tug then let him go in the room to find it? Do people normally use a command?


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Matt Grosch said:


> How would I start to train this, (as kinda mentioned earlier), show him his suede tug then let him go in the room to find it? Do people normally use a command?


 
yeah applesauce! LOL

what do you want him to do when you send him in? If its to find an object/toy/reward I would use seek or whatever language you use, if your sending him in for a bite, I would use something different, although seek would work as well....


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

actually I had been planning on starting both


for a bite, have the agitator tease him then run inside somewhere


and almost the same think with his tug or something to find an object?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> How would I start to train this, (as kinda mentioned earlier), show him his suede tug then let him go in the room to find it? Do people normally use a command?


Matt, I trained it that way. I don't show my dog where I hide the objects and do use the same command that she's given to track. So far it hasn't created any problems except one that is, I catch her following my route (hard surface, dirt, etc) to the object if I let her out to find the hidden objects too soon. 

I don't know what your plan is but if it's not for anything formal then have fun with it, I've used everything from quarters to a credit card. She's not all that playful of a dog but this is something that seems to provide an outlet for her and while giving me something to do with her.


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