# Producing Working Lines Dogs



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I heard it said that a guy only produces working lines puppies. "All of my puppies are workers." How can you tell that EVERYTHING from a working lines breeding will be a worker and not a pet grade animal? Even with the best of lines, I find this hard to believe. More often than not, yes, but everything...:-k


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is his definition of work ??


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

My guess knowing the guy... police prospect, sport Schutzhund (etc), PPD...didn't take the call. I know my Border Collie puppies have been able to show the herding drive by 7-8 months, but to say that all will do it, no way!


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## Russ Spencer (Jun 2, 2008)

IMHO, I also produce 'working line' puppies. Only because of their pedigrees though. The potential is there. What they are capable of after birth is to be determined at a later date. I could never say they are 'all workers.' Also, 'working line' covers a very broad spectrum.

I've had litters where none or 1 turned out to be the worker the owner wanted. A lot of it has to do with development after they are out of the breeders' hands. I've had litters where 7 out of 8 are workers. I don't remember a litter with 100% workers.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I expect "all" of mine to hunt but it is a natural thing that many dogs today don't possess. While they all hunt, and have a strong desire to do so, they don't all hunt for me. Some go off and hunt for themselves and are serious dogs but, they are hard to pick up when I am ready to call it a day, they aren't. This is why I don't worry about the dogs not hunting, I look at the confidence of each pup because I want them to hunt a certain way.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

My aim is, the fewer "shitters" the better, but my bottomline concern is that all my pups should make suitable companions, social enough to live within the home as "normal pets" do, (and hopefully, tolerate any other animals). The next dog I get, may or may not be wired that way, but it's _for me, personally anyhow._


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I heard it said that a guy only produces working lines puppies. "All of my puppies are workers." How can you tell that EVERYTHING from a working lines breeding will be a worker and not a pet grade animal? Even with the best of lines, I find this hard to believe. More often than not, yes, but everything...:-k




Any breeder who claims all of his puppies are workers.... probably does not expect a lot a work out of his dogs, or his puppies.


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## Rigel Lancero (Aug 22, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I heard it said that a guy only produces working lines puppies. "All of my puppies are workers." How can you tell that EVERYTHING from a working lines breeding will be a worker and not a pet grade animal? Even with the best of lines, I find this hard to believe. More often than not, yes, but everything...:-k



I hate those kind of breeders,they are kennel blind.
Maybe,it's a form of a sales talk to lure beginners to buy their pups.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Rigel Lancero said:


> Maybe,it's a form of a sales talk to lure beginners to buy their pups.


I think you hit the nail on the head!


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

There is absolutely no way someone can correctly claim that "all of the dogs they produce will work" unless: a) they have sorely low standards or b) their definition of "work" is rediculous. 

For my personal taste, I would NEVER aim to produce litters with puppies that can all exist as "normal" dogs, coexisting in a "normal" household. Are they occasionally produced? absolutely, and are placed accordingly. That said, I place "pet quality" puppies with even more care than "working quality" puppies. IMO, if a pup is not working quality, it is absoltuley not automatically pet quality. A good pet needs to be "bombproof": social with everyone, a family barbeque type dog and if a pup is too shy, reactive, nervous, whatever...unless I can find someone willing to be trained as to how to handle that dog at maturity (and foremost, is capable of following through), I'd much rather put that dog down than have it end up in the general public as a time-bomb and poor breed example.


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Kristina Senter said:


> For my personal taste, I would NEVER aim to produce litters with puppies that can all exist as "normal" dogs, coexisting in a "normal" household. Are they occasionally produced? absolutely, and are placed accordingly.
> 
> 
> > Are you saying that good dogs can't exist as normal dogs in a normal household? Are you speaking specifically of Mals or GSDs or some other breed?
> ...


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Laura,

First, keep in mind what "normal" household is: Low exercise, very poor relationship (by far, the majority of pet dogs may love but do NOT respect their owners), no boundaries, lots of neighborhood or houseold activity, children and friends with no boundaries, etc. 

Of course there are good dogs that are normal dogs in normal households, that makes them good pets. 
My personal preference of a working dog is not a good "pet", however, no. I personally do not care for a working dog that is a "weekend warrior". I like a dog that NEEDS to be worked and that needs a handler that knows what they are doing in order to gain and keep that dog's respect. 

Likewise, remember that I was referring to breeding goals. I only breed occasionally, but have bred German Shepherds, currently breed Malinois and wil possibly eventually have a Dutch Shepherd litter way down the road. Unless I breed Golden retrievers, however, my breeding goal will never be to produce dogs that are "good pets" in an average houseold. The dogs I prefer would be running a weaker household and peeing on the "average owner's" bed, if not disciplining the neighbors for jogging too closely to the house or sailing over their 4' picket fence to steal the soccer ball from their "2.5 children". 

A couple of my personal dogs are house dogs...they sleep on the bed, ride with me to get ice cream and play fetch with my clients. They still are however first and foremost working dogs. This means that I keep them in constant check and bust their butts when necessary if I see even the slightest bit of a "test" from them (which I am on constant watch for)and that anyone who interacts with them knows and abides by the rules. They are exercised and trained regularly and I take any risk to them OR the public very seriously- all of the time. I prevent accidents with rules, training, behavioral awareness, situational awareness and secure enclosures. This is, in my opinion, a requirement of owning a good working dog. If a dog does not need these things, it is probably not going to be a dog that I would breed to .


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Kristina, how is your success producing the kind of dogs you like by only breeding occassionally? Many people really work at producing good dogs and only have marginal success.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Kristina, if you're bent out of shape somehow in response to my statement _"to live within the home as "normal pets" do",_ please note that I said nothing about normal pets or normal/average households. I referred to _how they live _within the home, and think was taken out of context.

What that means to me, is to not treat your dog as I know some trainers do; by keeping the dog crated 100% of the time it is not being trained, only out when training and for nothing else, eats only while training and craps between routines. The reason I understand that some trainers do this, is the belief that the dog should only ever focus on the handler and nothing else at all, and oftentimes this type of dog if were out and left to its own devices, would probably wreck the place, being that they have a total inability to settle, constantly loaded. For my breed, that's _against standard,_ and shouldn't be necessary for good work. Not so much a common issue for gsd temperament in general, but there are plenty of exceptions.

A workingdog need not be social to anyone but its handler and accepting of the handler's household family, but is more than just a "tool" to hang in the garage. I don't care to be a tool manufacturer. Not everyone needs to agree, but my preference is to view the dogs as an extension of the family, to live within the home as "normal pets" do, and not be of the character or temperament that makes this an impossibility.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What do you use to hang a dog in the garage ?? I think that is a pretty cool idea, and the knuckleheads have been on that last nerve for a few days. Is it expensive ?? =D> =D>


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Cheaper than edible crates.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I like that idea a lot more than a cramped crate. They can swing around and have some fun.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Kristina, if you're bent out of shape somehow in response to my statement _"to live within the home as "normal pets" do",_


_

Daryl, 

I'm not bent out of shape, my last post was responding to Laura's Question: "Are you saying that good dogs can't exist as normal dogs in a normal household?" I guess I should have used quotes but my last post was directed entirely toward her question to me, sorry for any confusion. 

I agree that there are seldom reasons to keep a dog on a shelf (or a skyhook, lol) and that they can absolutely live in the house, etc. I guess soo much experience as a pet dog trainer still gives me a different perspective of what I think of as a "normal dog", but I agree, I want to see a dog that can be amongst the family. As we all (should) know, dogs are pack animals who (generally) thrive on interaction and fair, consistent leadership._


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