# A'Tim Körung 3 training + test



## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yntv8KH4_LQ

As promised the video of the training for K3 and the actual test.

Unfortunately the audience at the Körung sometimes gets in front of the camera, so the quality is not always perfect 

Enjoy


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

He is a great dog. The training was very nice to watch couldn't see much of the test as you already know! How is Fun doing in training?


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

My word, what a dog.


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Martine Loots said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yntv8KH4_LQ
> 
> As promised the video of the training for K3 and the actual test.
> 
> ...



Nice dog, too bad the decoy is on LSD hahahaha.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

that dog doesn't care what the decoy does to him he aint letting go, nice


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas (Oct 1, 2009)

The Pressure on the dog was Far away from the 1st attempt

I am totally against the kicks and skin holding and pulling on the 1st attempt but this last agitations were too soft for a korung 3 test, i had seen FR3 harder agitations than this. The training agitation was also harder than what i could see on the actual test.

As i already said A'tim Showed more of his quality on the First attempt than on this light test maybe under the pressure of the public view.


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## Tanya Beka (Aug 12, 2008)

Am I the only one who is not impressed? Training with 2 e-collars on the dog shows very little actual control. 

Try training without any e-collars for a year and then do the test and then I'll be impressed.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Cesar A. Flores Dueñas said:


> The Pressure on the dog was Far away from the 1st attempt
> 
> I am totally against the kicks and skin holding and pulling on the 1st attempt but *this last agitations were too soft for a korung 3 test, i had seen FR3 harder agitations than this*. The training agitation was also harder than what i could see on the actual test.
> 
> As i already said A'tim Showed more of his quality on the First attempt than on this light test maybe under the pressure of the public view.


Defence of the handler was same difficulty degree as with the 1st attempt.
Then there was the open attack, which was of the same difficulty degree as the 1st attack of the 1st attempt.
The attack in the trailer was far more difficult then you presume and far heavier then in any FR trial, trust me.
If you look closely, you can see what the decoy actually does with the jerrycans when the dog jumps over the straw packs to attack. While the dog launches himself to attack and is in the air completely, he closes the entry completely and pushes away the dog with the cans (which is easy for him because the dog is in the air). Tim grabs him anyway and then he hits him real hard with the cans (which were filled with stones thus heavy and making a lot of noise). This was "real" hitting, not the kind you see in trials.
Anyone with some experience in training will see the difficulty degree of this attack.

As I already said in my other post, there had been problems with people of animal welfare and they were there to warch that no animal cruelty rules were broken. Hence there was no shaking by the tail or pinching, which I didn't mind because I didn't want my dog to get injured.


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas (Oct 1, 2009)

I am just making comments based on this videos the ist attempt and this new one you posted

As i already said A'Tim did really well on the 1st atempt and the problems that he had were related with Training Holes, including compulssion training holes.

But From my particular point of view this 2nd test, was a soft one based on the quote " Just Few Dogs had passed the Korung 3 test" and the value this gaves to the test.

This i just a regular FR selectiffs agitation

and taking your quote, on this one too, Anyone with some experience in training will see the difficulty degree of this attack.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yarmand#p/u/123/vyKq70ucm-A

For me the 1st attempt show the quality of A'tim Better than the one that gave the title to him.


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas (Oct 1, 2009)

Tanya Beka said:


> Am I the only one who is not impressed? Training with 2 e-collars on the dog shows very little actual control.
> 
> Try training without any e-collars for a year and then do the test and then I'll be impressed.


I invite you to type A'tim, Gast, FIll or FUn video on google or youtube and you will find lots of videos of dogs without e-collar doing an excellent job. You ill get impress by sure

I can argue with Mrs. Loots about agitation pressure points of view and dog behaviour reading but on Control Training i think Mr.Lopes and Mr Loots are more than an authority on the area


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Cesar A. Flores Dueñas said:


> I am just making comments based on this videos the ist attempt and this new one you posted
> 
> As i already said A'Tim did really well on the 1st atempt and the problems that he had were related with Training Holes, including compulssion training holes.
> 
> ...


Sorry, if I gave the wrong impression, but I'm not blaming you for yr comment at all. My quote was general and not referring to anyone in particular.

The attack you linked is a very nice FR attack, but no way the pressure on the dog can be compared to the one in the trailer. 
Here the dog gets every chance to bite and he isn't hurt physically. It's an attack* like an attack in a trial should be* and this means the dog has to go for it, but the decoy has to follow the rules. He isn't allowed to try to hit the dog loose. The work with the stick is routine and the dog knows that too.

Also I agree with you that they put less physical pressure on A'Tim the second time but this was because of the problems they got after the first K3.
As far as we were concerned, Tim was more then ready for a repeat of version 1 
In fact we would have preferred that.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Martine Loots said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yntv8KH4_LQ
> 
> As promised the video of the training for K3 and the actual test.
> 
> ...


Happy New Year Martine and Joao!!!! This is the first time I've seen any footage of the actual K3 performance, so thank you for posting that. I've always been a fan of A'Tim. AWESOME performance as always. Excellent nerve, agression, drive, and tons of fight, but still very clear headed. Love that dog!!!:smile:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

*Trailer attack*

I have done a few events with an attack inside of an enclosed trailer. This is is one of the best scenarios we do, it clearly separates the competition. The pressure of this scenario is great and many dogs fail.

like it.


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas (Oct 1, 2009)

Martine Loots said:


> Sorry, if I gave the wrong impression, but I'm not blaming you for yr comment at all. My quote was general and not referring to anyone in particular.
> 
> The attack you linked is a very nice FR attack, but no way the pressure on the dog can be compared to the one in the trailer.
> Here the dog gets every chance to bite and he isn't hurt physically. It's an attack* like an attack in a trial should be* and this means the dog has to go for it, but the decoy has to follow the rules. He isn't allowed to try to hit the dog loose. The work with the stick is routine and the dog knows that too.
> ...


Thanks


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Tanya Beka said:


> Am I the only one who is not impressed? Training with 2 e-collars on the dog shows very little actual control.
> 
> Try training without any e-collars for a year and then do the test and then I'll be impressed.


 
you are not very formaliar with the use of an e collar in this fashion. e collars used this way gives dog different information depending on which one you activate. they are not used for punishment only.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Cesar A. Flores Dueñas said:


> I am just making comments based on this videos the ist attempt and this new one you posted
> 
> As i already said A'Tim did really well on the 1st atempt and the problems that he had were related with Training Holes, including compulssion training holes.
> 
> ...


 
you had a good point but that video is a bad example. I love Dosta and have seen him run some dogs. but this is just regular. If he had down sticked and hit the dog in the face I would agree


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## Tanya Beka (Aug 12, 2008)

Timothy Saunders said:


> you are not very formaliar with the use of an e collar in this fashion. e collars used this way gives dog different information depending on which one you activate. they are not used for punishment only.


You just keep telling yourself that.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Tanya Beka said:


> You just keep telling yourself that.


Discussing e-collar training here is offtopic, but I think you haven't seen "good" ecollar training yet.

We use the collar as a means to interact with the dog and this means we mostly use the low stimulations.

Multiple collars aren't meant to be used at the same time. Each one has a different purpose and the dog knows their meaning very well.
Low impulse on the neck collare means like you'd tap someone on the shoulder and say "hey there, I'm talking to you".
Low impulse on the tail is telling the dog to go ahead (f.i. on the object guard)
Waist collars are used for dominant dogs, who think the impulse comes from the decoy if you use a neck collar and hence go into a fight. When the impulse comes from behind, he knows it's coming from his master.

Good training means trying to get a result as much as possible with positive impulses like using rewards, but sometimes it's inevitable to punish. Ecollars can be used to punish, but this should ONLY be done when the dog KNOWS the command very well so he knows WHY he gets punished.


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas (Oct 1, 2009)

Do you have a long distance course? hahahaha i would love to learn from you but i am farrrr away


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