# new GSD stud dog at Logan Haus Kennels



## mike suttle

We are very excited to add* LUBECK VON DER MAHLER-MEISTER KNPV PH 1 432 MET LOF *to our breeding program here. Lubeck is a very fast, very athletic German Shepherd with Malinois like drives and attacks. His hunt and retrieve drive is amazing. His grips are very hard. Social dog yet very serious in the work. Beautiful medium sized dog that has offspring who are excelling in the KNPV program in Holland now.
He placed 3rd in the Providencial Championships
He placed 1st in the young dog competition
He won the best attacker contest for the PH 1 competition for GSDs
He is HD and ED "A" normal
He has a ZW rating of 72

He is a son of the World famous Inox Vom Haus Ming KNPV PH 1 Met Lof, PH 2 Met Lof, Obj Met Lof.
His pedigree is stacked with proven World Class dogs:  Nick V Heiligenbosch, Half Ruhbachtal, Timmy Bosen Nachbarschaft, Orlie Korbelbach, Arek Stoffelblick, Mink Wittfeld (2 times), Sirk Haus Sevens, Fado Karthago, Afra Stoppenberger Land, Orly Barenfang.

I worked this dog in Holland last Sept and I think my bicep still has deep tissue damage from him.:lol:


----------



## ena mantz

Hi,
was wondering if you sell semen to go overseas. I am in Australia and have 2 bitches with mink in their lines. I would be interested in buying some. Thank you Ena


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Gonna sell this one too, before the month's out? Either gsd's or no gsd's, I wish you'd finally decide. At least get some frozen on this one before letting him go, I'd probably like to bring one of mine to him when they're old enough.


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Always nice to hear of good imports coming in to improve working dogs. I emailed a friend in WV that has working GSDs and trains mainly detection dogs to check him out for a stud.


----------



## mike suttle

Daryl Ehret said:


> Gonna sell this one too, before the month's out? Either gsd's or no gsd's, I wish you'd finally decide. At least get some frozen on this one before letting him go, I'd probably like to bring one of mine to him when they're old enough.


 LOL, I may sell him tomorrow Daryl.....ya never know. It depends on how hungry my kids get. I will be collecting him for sure. I recently sold a super nice GSD bitch to a very nice couple who will be using her for PPD work. The dog will not be titled due to her new role in life, but her pedigree is excellent and her working drives, courage, aggression, grips, health, and nerves are exactly what I think a working dog should be. I think I can talk them into breeding this super female to our new stud dog here.
Dont hate me if I sell this dog at some point Daryl.....it is how I pay the bills around here.
But the important thing is that he will be in the USA to be used for breeding even if I do sell him.


----------



## mike suttle

Debbie Skinner said:


> Always nice to hear of good imports coming in to improve working dogs. I emailed a friend in WV that has working GSDs and trains mainly detection dogs to check him out for a stud.


Hey Debbie, who is this person in WV, where are they located? I am always looking for more working dog people close to me.


----------



## andreas broqvist

Sounds like a rely nice dog.
Are this dog also FCI registred?


----------



## mike suttle

andreas broqvist said:


> Sounds like a rely nice dog.
> Are this dog also FCI registred?


Yes, he is FCI registered.


----------



## Debbie Skinner

mike suttle said:


> Hey Debbie, who is this person in WV, where are they located? I am always looking for more working dog people close to me.


The town of Phillipi (sp?) WV. Kathy Holbert. She emailed me back and said she had a super male from this line before. She has Czech GSDs and some Beaucerons. http://www.chiodokennels.com/


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Here is a video, just in case you want to buy this thing from Mike. I am sure he is for sale.

http://www.hondencentrum.com/mahler...on-der-mahler-meister/videos/detail/MTIwNw==/

Looks like the decoy was enjoying himself.


----------



## Gillian Schuler

I guess he was!!!!!!


My contingent is full.


----------



## Meng Xiong

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Here is a video, just in case you want to buy this thing from Mike. I am sure he is for sale.
> 
> http://www.hondencentrum.com/mahler...on-der-mahler-meister/videos/detail/MTIwNw==/
> 
> Looks like the decoy was enjoying himself.


 

LoL... deep breaths... deep breaths...


----------



## hillel schwartzman

yes this video says a 1000 words .. i meant breaths..... boy those are some big boys over in holland


----------



## Matt Grosch

Ouch.....right in the strudel basket


----------



## Jason Moore

Matt Grosch said:


> Ouch.....right in the strudel basket[/quote LOL yeah he was in some pain


----------



## andrew kurtowicz

congrats on the new monster mike i hope he stays there long enough for me to see him in person


----------



## Guest

Yeah Andy, me too! However, I'm with Daryl, I give Mike two months and the dog is sold!


----------



## Nicole Stark

Looks like a real solid dog and a great addition to your program.


----------



## andrew kurtowicz

well jody lets start the pool now i bet less than 30 days !!!!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Where is Shaquira at now that you could use her ?? LOL The money is in the GSD goofball. HA HA


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Coulda got a lot more than you sold her for, just on the first litter alone.


----------



## hillel schwartzman

Just luv it when they tell u what you should have would have could have...maybe they can start paying both our bills...right in the strudel basket best line of the month..lol.


----------



## mike suttle

OK guys....how bout this. I will sell him to Jeff and Daryl and you guys can co-own this one together. Then you can both get rich off of him.
By the way Daryl, you had the first chance to buy Shaquira, in fact all of you did but I heard nothing about it until she was already sold to the Govt.
:razz:
If I do decide to sell this dog, the bidding will start at $15,000..........now do I hear $16,000????:-D


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Oh, believe me, I really wanted to. But that was like a month after the wife moved out, and too much uncertainty going on with everything. Definitely could've afforded a pup from her, though.

I really don't need a male, I'll have to leave this one to Jeff.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Got a better one sitting in the crate right now. LOL

Just busting your balls crybaby. You got to understand that perception is reality. You selling everything that comes your way is what it is looking like.

Plus, who knows what that spun up GSD might produce ?? Good Sch dogs ??? We want to know, and you are all over the place. You have enough guns and enough acreage that you should start hunting and fishing to feed those little mouths, and not be selling everything that walks through the revolving door.

Like to see a breeder, not a broker. I have seen those before. Boring.


Quote: Just luv it when they tell u what you should have would have could have...maybe they can start paying both our bills...right in the strudel basket best line of the month..lol.

Who the **** are you ?? Pretty sure I was talking to Mike. Oh wait, I get it, a hanger on. Lamprey.


----------



## mike suttle

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Got a better one sitting in the crate right now. LOL
> 
> Just busting your balls crybaby. You got to understand that perception is reality. You selling everything that comes your way is what it is looking like.
> 
> Plus, who knows what that spun up GSD might produce ?? Good Sch dogs ??? We want to know, and you are all over the place. You have enough guns and enough acreage that you should start hunting and fishing to feed those little mouths, and not be selling everything that walks through the revolving door.
> 
> Like to see a breeder, not a broker. I have seen those before. Boring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote: Just luv it when they tell u what you should have would have could have...maybe they can start paying both our bills...right in the strudel basket best line of the month..lol.
> 
> Who the **** are you ?? Pretty sure I was talking to Mike. Oh wait, I get it, a hanger on. Lamprey.


Well, I am trying to balance between being a good reputable breeder, and a honest and reliable vendor.
It is hard to do both, but I am doing my best. Then I get you wise guys busting my balls for selling a dog](*,)


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Ever notice how it is just certain dogs ?? LOL This one is probably not my favorite, but trying to get you to hold on to one long enough to see what they produce dammit.


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Especially a german shepherd or two!


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Lamprey :lol::lol::lol: Thank you Mr. Warmth :lol:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Don's gonna retire soon, and there is an opening. I just gotta start learning the Nazi jokes.


----------



## kristin tresidder

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Lamprey.


LOL! i'm totally gonna use that one later...


----------



## todd pavlus

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Got a better one sitting in the crate right now. LOL
> 
> Just busting your balls crybaby. You got to understand that perception is reality. You selling everything that comes your way is what it is looking like.
> 
> Plus, who knows what that spun up GSD might produce ?? Good Sch dogs ??


I like how you think a PH1 GSD might produce good SCH. pups... but you import a puppy from France based on good object guard video from the sire. :roll: Hopefully the shit doesn't blows up in your face, there will be a field day with you:-D


----------



## Nicole Stark

Don't take this personally but you guys are a bunch of assholes. I find this very amusing, because it goes right along with my sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## Chris McDonald

mike suttle said:


> OK guys....how bout this. I will sell him to Jeff and Daryl and you guys can co-own this one together. Then you can both get rich off of him.
> By the way Daryl, you had the first chance to buy Shaquira, in fact all of you did but I heard nothing about it until she was already sold to the Govt.
> :razz:
> If I do decide to sell this dog, the bidding will start at $15,000..........now do I hear $16,000????:-D


Maybe you need to change your approach? add some water, fire and smoke and take away all those stupid titles that I don’t know what they mean and I might be in….. who the hell wants a dog with more initials after its name than the owner? I aint got no initials


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: I like how you think a PH1 GSD might produce good SCH. pups... but you import a puppy from France based on good object guard video from the sire. Hopefully the shit doesn't blows up in your face, there will be a field day with you

Dipshit, it is a joke, to reply, you need another FUNNIER joke.

By the way, Esko's father is not the dog doing the object guard. Guess you missed out when I explained that. Remember, reading comprehension is part of what makes you seem so dumb. Gotta remember to read slowly, so you can remember it all.

Esko's mothers father is the brother to Ulko's mother. Tex is his father and has nothing to do with Ulko.

Couldn't find the breeder of Ulko, just the handler. Sarco, Esko's mothers father is 8, probably his sister is done breeding.

There will be a quiz later.

So, yeah, I would like to see what this dog produces, and then see how they turn out. Typically the Dutch use a buttload of frustration and pain stimulation to load the dogs up. From what I have seen over the many years, this produces dogs that could sleep through bitework if they are not trained the same way.

I talked at length with the training methods used with Esko's father, and he brought it on his own. THAT is what I am looking for.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Don't take this personally but you guys are a bunch of assholes. I find this very amusing, because it goes right along with my sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh.

Ok, then lets continue the trend. So how long have you been clean from meth ?? About the only people I know that live in butt**** Alaska are drug addicts, former drug addicts, or people who like fishing boats.


----------



## Christopher Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So, yeah, I would like to see what this dog produces, and then see how they turn out. *Typically the Dutch use a buttload of frustration and pain stimulation to load the dogs up. From what I have seen over the many years, this produces dogs that could sleep through bitework if they are not trained the same way.*


Have I read you wrong? What KNPV dogs have you seen that fit that bill? Sure the Dutch use frustration to build drive, but pain stimulation? Never seen that, and I train with second gen KNPV guys at my club. I do agree that the Dutch unregistered KNPV dogs do have stronger nerves than the FR ones on average, and are also bigger built with stronger bones, but this certainly doesnt result in lower drive?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Do you aggitate with a prong ?? If the dog makes a mistake in the obedience during bitework do you correct one time, or pop the collar rapidly ??

I am sure there are different styles of training out there, and no one can see them all, but tie outs as pups and correction style training is exactly what that is. If you correct in the bitework from the start, then that is how you are training.

I have no problem with it, I have just seen a lot of pups from really nice KNPV dogs raised and trained the way it is done most of the time over here bomb out.

I am not sure what FR dogs you have seen, and not sure if you are talking nerves or reactivity, but compared to a DS the reactive Mals look nervy. Not saying that there are not nervy mals out there by any means.

I look at nervy differently now than I did before I started working with these wierdos. Their thresholds are just a lot lower than other dogs.


----------



## kamphuis gerben

hello,guys 
just following the conversation 
i think its always bad that a high class dog gets sold to places not reachable for the 
sportpeople ,but i can assure knowing mike that he invest everything he has to get him to the point were he wants to be to breed high class dogs 
and lets be honost about it everyone got the chance to buy these dogs if they are for sale 
sure lubeck issnt i know the trainer,breeder and i worked the dog a lot in the suit 
the only reason he comes down is that he a very complete dog and traits that are not easy to find in 
a german shepert nowadays 
greetings gerben


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Has he been bred ?? If so how did things turn out ??

No need to save Mike, we are just busting his balls for destroying any chance at all that we can have better dogs in this country by selling them to the DUMBEST mother****ers on the planet. If those retards are getting nice pups out of Shaquira, can you imagine what people that actually know what they are doing could produce ??


----------



## mike suttle

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Has he been bred ?? If so how did things turn out ??
> 
> No need to save Mike, we are just busting his balls for destroying any chance at all that we can have better dogs in this country by selling them to the DUMBEST mother****ers on the planet. If those retards are getting nice pups out of Shaquira, can you imagine what people that actually know what they are doing could produce ??


Yes, he has been bred , and even some Malinois breeders have used him with their KNPV Malinois to improve things there as well.
I have seen several puppies from him in Holland that were very much like him, fast, drivey as hell, and incredibly athletic.
For me finding a GSD that bites hard is pretty easy, finding one with the drive and speed / athleticism of a Malinois is what I am always looking for. This dog has all of that.....speed, drive, agility, power, intensity, he is very easy to train and not handler or dog aggressive. He is just a Hell of a nice working dog who happens to be GSD.
I know for sure this dog will improve the quality of the GSD breed in the USA. He may even help with some shortfalls of certain Malinois lines!!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Maybe you keep this one. THe money is in the GSD after all.


----------



## hillel schwartzman

Jeff who in the f*** doesn't use fustration in bite work??? oh i forgot you must be those weeney guys, tell me one great schh knvp mono competitor who doesn't use a prong or e-colar in ob and protection..
compulsion builds drive.. but then again maybe you don't understand that...
the blood sucking lamprey

by the way what GSD bloodline are you using in your breeding program?????? lol


----------



## todd pavlus

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I like how you think a PH1 GSD might produce good SCH. pups... but you import a puppy from France based on good object guard video from the sire. Hopefully the shit doesn't blows up in your face, there will be a field day with you
> 
> Dipshit, it is a joke, to reply, you need another FUNNIER joke.
> 
> By the way, Esko's father is not the dog doing the object guard. Guess you missed out when I explained that. Remember, reading comprehension is part of what makes you seem so dumb. Gotta remember to read slowly, so you can remember it all.
> 
> Esko's mothers father is the brother to Ulko's mother. Tex is his father and has nothing to do with Ulko.
> 
> Couldn't find the breeder of Ulko, just the handler. Sarco, Esko's mothers father is 8, probably his sister is done breeding.
> 
> There will be a quiz later.


Well then that pup is even more of a crap shoot then. My mind must have went numb after the endless posts of yours on "the best object guard ever". And it just happened to be a GSD, which is funny considering the endless amounts of shit you have talked about the breed, and now you own one. I look foward to your object guard video. I hope everything turns out the way you wanted:wink:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Jeff who in the f*** doesn't use fustration in bite work??? oh i forgot you must be those weeney guys, tell me one great schh knvp mono competitor who doesn't use a prong or e-colar in ob and protection..

Not really the point I was making.

Quote: Well then that pup is even more of a crap shoot then. My mind must have went numb after the endless posts of yours on "the best object guard ever". And it just happened to be a GSD, which is funny considering the endless amounts of shit you have talked about the breed, and now you own one. I look foward to your object guard video. I hope everything turns out the way you wanted.

Ok, for the record, I would LOVE to do Mondio or French ring with a Rottweiler, as they are a personal favorite, but what are the odds?? My lamentations on the GSD are because I like them a lot, and people are not paying attention, as evidenced by your post.

Finally, in Esko's fathers pedigree, there are ring three dogs going back to the mid to early 70's......no schutzhund dogs. Does that still make it a crap shoot ?? Am I done spanking Mr I don't pay attention and make assumptions ??


----------



## David Ruby

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ok, for the record, I would LOVE to do Mondio or French ring with a Rottweiler, as they are a personal favorite, but what are the odds?? My lamentations on the GSD are because I like them a lot, and people are not paying attention, as evidenced by your post.


I think it'd be cool to see Rottweilers doing Mondio or French Ring. Serious question, totally off-topic yet dog related. Is it just that you know you know you couldn't achieve a certain level and don't want to settle for a lower accomplishment than what a Malinois or even a GSD would net you, or that it'd be too frustrating to try to get a Rottweiler to compete based on the nature of the sport? I think it would still be cool to see you (or anybody) working a Rottie or similar type of breed even if you weren't winning nationals or getting MR or FR III's on them. Besides, it might be fun.

-Cheers


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Todd, I think Chris is the one who doesn't like gsd's. Or was it Mike?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

And just for fun, I think I will slam on the lamprey

Quote: compulsion builds drive.. but then again maybe you don't understand that...

What idiot taught you that ?? I know that you did not come up with this on your own. So you bought a suit and are now the consumate expert right ?? I have dealt with bigger dummies than you.

Compulsion builds frustration. Dumbass. So if your dog is taught to channel frustration into the bite for a reward......

Go ahead and finish the sentence Mr "I got this" I bet you don't have the balls or the experience to do so.

Punk.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## mike suttle

I cant speak for Chris.....but I dont mind saying that overall I am not a huge of the GSD as it compares to the Malinois. Having said that, I do appreciate a great working dog, no matter the breed.
I have had a small handfull of great GSDs in here in the last few years, so I know they exist.
It looks like I may be doing a GSD breeding here at some point in the not so distant future.
You can rest assured that if I breed a GSD litter here it will be out of two GSDs that I think are truely exceptional, which is why I have not had a GSD litter in some time.
I tried it with Shaquira Tiekerhook but the breeding with her and Max did not take.


----------



## Chris McDonald

I hope you’re not talking about this Chris I don’t know enough to not like something, I any mutt. I think your speaking of the other Christopher with dog experience


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Mike do you have video of the dog?I didn't read the whole post so forgive me if the question was asked.


----------



## todd pavlus

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Jeff who in the f*** doesn't use fustration in bite work??? oh i forgot you must be those weeney guys, tell me one great schh knvp mono competitor who doesn't use a prong or e-colar in ob and protection..
> 
> Not really the point I was making.
> 
> Quote: Well then that pup is even more of a crap shoot then. My mind must have went numb after the endless posts of yours on "the best object guard ever". And it just happened to be a GSD, which is funny considering the endless amounts of shit you have talked about the breed, and now you own one. I look foward to your object guard video. I hope everything turns out the way you wanted.
> 
> Ok, for the record, I would LOVE to do Mondio or French ring with a Rottweiler, as they are a personal favorite, but what are the odds?? My lamentations on the GSD are because I like them a lot, and people are not paying attention, as evidenced by your post.
> 
> Finally, in Esko's fathers pedigree, there are ring three dogs going back to the mid to early 70's......no schutzhund dogs. Does that still make it a crap shoot ?? Am I done spanking Mr I don't pay attention and make=quote]
> 
> 
> Alot of times puppies are a crap shoot, especially if you don't get to see them before you buy, which I'm sure you know. Someone is awfully defensive. Wonder why? :-s


----------



## hillel schwartzman

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> And just for fun, I think I will slam on the lamprey
> 
> Quote: compulsion builds drive.. but then again maybe you don't understand that...
> 
> What idiot taught you that ?? I know that you did not come up with this on your own. So you bought a suit and are now the consumate expert right ?? I have dealt with bigger dummies than you.
> 
> Compulsion builds frustration. Dumbass. So if your dog is taught to channel frustration into the bite for a reward......
> 
> Go ahead and finish the sentence Mr "I got this" I bet you don't have the balls or the experience to do so.
> 
> Punk.
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


 
no i never have trained a dog before onlike you... you must be an expert ..i just show my dog videos of good dog and trainers thats all i need to do... by the way first dog i trained was a show dog schh3 fh1 before he was three...oh and the idiot who taught me that compulsion builds drive has been on the usa world team twice.u awhole.but i guess that does not matter anyhow...so stop watching all those dirty harry movies and make my day and train you "punk" lol


----------



## Nicole Stark

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> Ok, then lets continue the trend. So how long have you been clean from meth ?? About the only people I know that live in butt**** Alaska are drug addicts, former drug addicts, or people who like fishing boats.


Oh? :---) Interesting you'd admit to that. Apparently the saying is true, water really does seek its own level. I suppose you should find better company to keep Jeff. :-({|=


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

I've met lots of people from AK, and they are among the nicest people on the planet.

Even the imports from the lower 50.


----------



## Mike Scheiber

hillel schwartzman said:


> no i never have trained a dog before onlike you... you must be an expert ..i just show my dog videos of good dog and trainers thats all i need to do... by the way first dog i trained was a show dog schh3 fh1 before he was three...oh and the idiot who taught me that compulsion builds drive has been on the usa world team twice.u awhole.but i guess that does not matter anyhow...so stop watching all those dirty harry movies and make my day and train you "punk" lol


For get about it your arguing with a scarecrow


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Wow a showdog to sch 3. I have seen those trials. Must be impressive. Now you have a suit and talked to a guy that went overseas. You are good to go. How's that KNPV training going ?? Getting ready to go to Holland and amaze them with your suit ?? 

Quote: For get about it your arguing with a scarecrow

Not likely. I haven't goofed on you in a while. Time to show this amazing dog of yours. Who's the scarecrow now ??


----------



## Christopher Jones

Hey Mike, glad to see your thread has gone so well......:?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Wanna buy his dog ?? I will throw in a wannabe KNPV trainer for free ! ! !


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Alot of times puppies are a crap shoot, especially if you don't get to see them before you buy, which I'm sure you know. Someone is awfully defensive. Wonder why? 

You know, with a lot of breeders a puppy is a crap shoot. When you sell a puppy, it is a crap shoot. There are just as many knuckleheads out there screwing up perfectly good dogs as there are crap shoot puppies. LOL

Worked Esko on the jambierre today, just doing some chasing. Seemed fine to me, doesn't look like a crap shoot at all.

How many posts does it take for you to realize I don't get defensive ?? LOL


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Wow a showdog to sch 3. I have seen those trials. Must be impressive. Now you have a suit and talked to a guy that went overseas. You are good to go. How's that KNPV training going ?? Getting ready to go to Holland and amaze them with your suit ??
> 
> Quote: For get about it your arguing with a scarecrow
> 
> Not likely. I haven't goofed on you in a while. Time to show this amazing dog of yours. Who's the scarecrow now ??


You can ask around I'm showing him at the Regional this weekend but you may get a better perspective from the people that have worked him help me train him and who have watched him train.
I like him he's a blast


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

So get a ****ing video camera already. Damn.


----------



## Chris McDonald

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I've met lots of people from AK, and they are among the nicest people on the planet.
> 
> Even the imports from the lower 50.


That cause you were all doing drugs and drunk \\/


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So get a ****ing video camera already. Damn.


I got a nice one I havent bothered to learn how to post Lisa G has a lot of Jetts training video with Greg Doud also Stephan Schuab. 
Maybe if there is some time this weekend I'll see if she will give me some youtube lessons and I can put something together.
I'm not sure what my point would be for me to post. I train ugly there must be shit before there is shinola also I'm not comfortable posting the work we do out of courtesy to our club and my coaches and helpers. 
What I might end up posting might be finished product which isn't usually that exiting but hopefully impressive in spite of me.
Sorry back to Mike dog


----------



## Jason Hammel

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Here is a video, just in case you want to buy this thing from Mike. I am sure he is for sale.
> 
> http://www.hondencentrum.com/mahler...on-der-mahler-meister/videos/detail/MTIwNw==/
> 
> Looks like the decoy was enjoying himself.


great vid but that judge in the background almost distracted the entire show I bet that guy gets all the chicks.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

That decoy looked like he was in agony. I don't think he recovered from the initial hit. Nice dog and I really like his size.


----------



## Mike Lauer

> That decoy looked like he was in agony. I don't think he recovered from the initial hit


glad it was him that got hurt and not the dog with that jam


----------



## mike suttle

Mike Lauer said:


> glad it was him that got hurt and not the dog with that jam


That is the difference between KNPV work and the way that we catch dogs here. Those dogs crash into the decoy like that over and over again, hundreds of times and yet they still come down the field just as fast on the next attack.
This is natural selection at its best, only the dogs with the strongest of back, teeth, necks, and the heart to keep doing it will hold up to this type of a train wreck time and time again.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Or, and more likely, they do a lot of drag ins, and save the crashing stuff for the silly Americans on buying trips. HA HA


----------



## Nicole Stark

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Or, and more likely, they do a lot of drag ins, and save the crashing stuff for the silly Americans on buying trips. HA HA


LOL That's a pretty amusing thought.


----------



## todd pavlus

I think Jeff just wishes he had the contacts and access to the type of dogs that Mike can get.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

*Lower 48*



Gerry Grimwood said:


> I've met lots of people from AK, and they are among the nicest people on the planet.
> 
> Even the imports from the lower 50.


Gerry,

I think there are still only 50 states. So it would be the
lower 48 since you don't count Alaska itself and Hawaii
is way off on the side of Alaska :-0


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Todd, that would take a couple phone calls, and a trip to Holland. I am glad that he is doing it.


----------



## kristin tresidder

mike suttle said:


> This is natural selection at its best, only the dogs with the strongest of back, teeth, necks, and the heart to keep doing it will hold up to this type of a train wreck time and time again.


it would be interesting to look at a generalizable sample of x-rays of the spines of competitive KNPV dogs - not just the titled and done dogs, but those who compete for some time, to see the toll work like that takes. 

also, makes you wonder about starting young dogs in KNPV - i can see why some people wait until the dogs are physically mature before they really work them in bite work in that sport. tough or not, i can't see how training like that _wouldn't_ leave an impact on a dog whose bones aren't done 'forming' (for lack of a better word) yet.


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen

In Dick´s experience the last few years, about the same time al lot of people tend to start very early with a young dog, a lot of dogs don´t get trough the x-rays when dogs are bought for active police duty. Backs already show signs of athrose.

A good dog will also bite when he's 1 yr or older and a dog doesn't have to be finished training at 2/2.5 yrs.​


----------



## milder batmusen

What a good thing that there are som good GSD around the world sell him to EU because Im in the need for a very good male to mate to my female and I would love to mate her to that type of male here in Denmark


What is it about the GSD that many of you in here dont like:?::?::?:


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

*Re: Lower 48*



Thomas Barriano said:


> Gerry,
> 
> I think there are still only 50 states. So it would be the
> lower 48 since you don't count Alaska itself and Hawaii
> is way off on the side of Alaska :-0


Please excuse my ignorance, but you knew what I meant


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> A good dog will also bite when he's 1 yr or older and a dog doesn't have to be finished training at 2/2.5 yrs.​


So there's still hope for me and my dog


----------



## Gillian Schuler

Milder, me, I like them but then I've seen a lot of good ones over here in Europe.

Maybe it's the fashion with some people to put them down and some people are like sheep they follow the Leithammel and baa baa they go :lol:


----------



## milder batmusen

Gillian Schuler said:


> Milder, me, I like them but then I've seen a lot of good ones over here in Europe.
> 
> Maybe it's the fashion with some people to put them down and some people are like sheep they follow the Leithammel and baa baa they go :lol:


Gillian maybe youre right 


I just think there is not alot of what I see i Denmark dogs like the one they write of in this thread so I would like him to be sold to scandinavia I know that kennel Torneryd in sweden has alot of dogs from Holland maybe they would be interested in buying such a dog I now that I would buy him for the right price:mrgreen:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

How much would the stud fee be???


----------



## mike suttle

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How much would the stud fee be???


 About the price of a puppy, I was thinking $1200, same as I charge for Arko.


----------



## Drew Peirce

I felt it was worthy enough to use this thread to credit another GSD that passed through loganhaus kennels recently, this one doesnt have the resume of lubeck or orry on paper, but his potential impact on the gene pool here in the states could be far greater than both, time will tell.


----------



## ann schnerre

would you share the dog's name, at least, drew?


----------



## Christopher Jones

Sky? Apparently hes the hardest hiting, driven GSD to come into the US in a long time.


----------



## Drew Peirce

His name is Lanzo v.d. Ronden Hoek, shaquira son.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Sky is a really nice dog, but I don't know about hardest hitting.


----------



## mike suttle

The dog that Drew is refering to is a dog that I sold him named Lanzo, he is a son from Shaquira V Tiekerhook and Fado VD Lutter. This is really a great dog.
Sky is also a great GSD, I had him here for about a year, he bites hard, and he does hit hard, but not the hardest hitting GSD in the USA for sure.
I do not want to take anything away from those two dogs as I really believe they are very nice dogs. I did not work Lanzo a lot here, only a few sessions and he was sold to someone who knew and appreciated how nice this dog was. Since he was young and green his potential had not yet been reached when he left my kennel, but I knew he was a super dog for sure.
I worked Sky a lot while he was here for that year. I can tell you that Lubeck is better than Sky in almost every area, minus overall size I guess. Sky was a much larger dog than Lubeck. But Lubeck hits much harder, has stronger nerves, better retrieve drives, equal hunt drive, similar grips on the sleeve and suit, Lubeck has less conflict in his head with the handler, he is just a nicer dog in my honest opinion. But I will still take dogs like SKY all day long for sure.


----------



## milder batmusen

Drew Peirce said:


> His name is Lanzo v.d. Ronden Hoek, shaquira son.


does anyone have a link til think SKY gsd:?::?:


----------



## mike suttle

Jody Butler said:


> Yeah Andy, me too! However, I'm with Daryl, I give Mike two months and the dog is sold!


Well, you were a little off Jody..................it only took 6 weeks!:sad:


----------



## Guest

mike suttle said:


> Well, you were a little off Jody..................it only took 6 weeks!:sad:


 
Get the F____ Outta here, you sold him? LMAO!!


----------



## mike suttle

Jody Butler said:


> Get the F____ Outta here, you sold him? LMAO!!


the kid's have to eat man!!


----------



## Guest

mike suttle said:


> the kid's have to eat man!!


Gotta a-lot of deer out there! Speaking of that, I will probably be heading your way at the end of the month.....


----------



## Guest

Mike, did you at least collect from him before you sold him????


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

](*,)](*,)](*,)Gay.


----------



## mike suttle

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ](*,)](*,)](*,)Gay.


LOL, somehow I knew you would have something intelligent to contribute here!!
it is getting cold up here in the mountains already Jeff, I had to buy winter clothes for the babies man, you know how it goes.
I told me wife when the deal was done that their will be a guy in TX who will say I am a ****tard for doing this!! She did not know what I was talking about, but now I can tell her that I was right.


----------



## Howard Knauf

Mike,

You might have to put the missus on here to set Jeff straight.:mrgreen: I'd pay a dollar to see that!!!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Somehow I doubt she is gonna be much help to him.


----------



## mike suttle

She is a mean, angry woman! But yet she never gets upset when I sell a dog. For some reason everyone else on here gets mad at me when I sell one though.


----------



## Dennis Jones

mike suttle said:


> She is a mean, angry woman! But yet she never gets upset when I sell a dog. For some reason everyone else on here gets mad at me when I sell one though.


 just went over to your website, NICE PUPPIES! :mrgreen: I know where I'm going to look for my next dog


----------



## Adi Ibrahimbegovic

Who bought it? A breeder? Government? Police? PPD broker? Sports person? Don't need a name or any identifying things at all, just n general, curious in what venue/capacity he will be used from now on.


----------



## mike suttle

Adi Ibrahimbegovic said:


> Who bought it? A breeder? Government? Police? PPD broker? Sports person? Don't need a name or any identifying things at all, just n general, curious in what venue/capacity he will be used from now on.


A private individual outside the USA.


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Did he ever set foot in your kennel? If you refrain your announcements before they never happen, you might seem less flighty.


----------



## mike suttle

Daryl Ehret said:


> Did he ever set foot in your kennel? If you refrain your announcements before they never happen, you might seem less flighty.


He was here for a short while. Sorry if you think I am "flighty" Daryl. LOL I am in the business of selling good dogs to working dog people, I cant keep them all here or the bills dont get paid. 
I will go ahead and tell you now about a Jim son that I have coming in here next week. He will likely be sold very quickly too as he is a super nice GSD with an excellent pedigree. Does it really make me "flighty" because I sell dogs???????


----------



## Michelle Reusser

How far outside the USA? Canada/Mexico. Now his blood won't be here? Can I choke you?


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Just make a gsd litter, and I might be happy. ;-)


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

mike suttle said:


> A private individual outside the USA.


Is the dog living in Fred Karlsson's neighborhood ??


----------



## Candy Eggert

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Is the dog living in Fred Karlsson's neighborhood ??


roflmao...bad Gerry, bad


----------



## mike suttle

OK now folks.......before you all plan a lynching at my kennel let me assure you that I will still be doing a GSD breeding. I have the stud dog picked out (Wasko Vom Eifelgrund SchH 3 USA National Competitor) and since I dont own him he should be safe from being sold.:grin:
The bitch that I will use is my Javir Talka Marda daughter. 
Shaquira Vom Tiekerhook has a litter on the ground now out of Wasko and they are very nice, I have seen several litters from Wasko and they have impressed me enough to want to use him for breeding.
Connie is a super working bitch with an excellent pedigree, I think this will be a great litter.


----------



## Kyle Sprag

gerry grimwood said:


> is the dog living in fred karlsson's neighborhood ??


 
lmao!!


----------



## Don Turnipseed

"The bitch that I will use is my Javir Talka Marda daughter."

Mike, what titles has she got? I may have someone that is interested. 
Oh, and how old is she?


----------



## Guest

mike suttle said:


> He was here for a short while. Sorry if you think I am "flighty" Daryl. LOL I am in the business of selling good dogs to working dog people, I cant keep them all here or the bills dont get paid.
> I will go ahead and tell you now about a Jim son that I have coming in here next week. He will likely be sold very quickly too as he is a super nice GSD with an excellent pedigree. Does it really make me "flighty" because I sell dogs???????


 
Hey who the F_ck cares, keep doing what your doing, your OBVIOUSLY doing well when I here about your dogs and people visiting your place everywhere I go. I commend you on what your trying to do as a breeder, but ultimately dogs sell. F_ck everyone else who doesn't understand that you can be a successful breeder and business man, bottom line is your producing and importing Top Quality stock, regardless of how long you keep them or even if you breed to them.

Cheers!


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Jody Butler said:


> Hey who the F_ck cares, keep doing what your doing, your OBVIOUSLY doing well when I here about your dogs and people visiting your place everywhere I go. I commend you on what your trying to do as a breeder, but ultimately dogs sell. F_ck everyone else who doesn't understand that you can be a successful breeder and business man, bottom line is your producing and importing Top Quality stock, regardless of how long you keep them or even if you breed to them.
> 
> Cheers!


I don't think Mike is the sensitive type and some razzing doesn't mean people don't respect him, probably the opposite.


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Don Turnipseed said:


> "The bitch that I will use is my Javir Talka Marda daughter."
> 
> Mike, what titles has she got? I may have someone that is interested.
> Oh, and how old is she?


Can we get a mod edit before Mike sees this?!


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Daryl Ehret said:


> Can we get a mod edit before Mike sees this?!


Why??? Knowing the titles would be a good sales point.


----------



## Daryl Ehret

Thought you were trying to sell his dog before he could...


----------



## mike suttle

She will be 2 years old in Dec. She has a SchH BH, AD, and she is SG rated.
She is not for sale..............for now.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Can't be doing that well if he sells a dog with the description he gave me of that dog. "Got to get winter clothes for the kids" ?? : )

****ing dog brokers. Useless.


----------



## Christopher Jones

Keep moving them GSD's on as fast as you can Mike \\/ Dogs like Arko and Carlos are a different kettle of fish however......


----------



## mike suttle

Christopher Jones said:


> Keep moving them GSD's on as fast as you can Mike \\/ Dogs like Arko and Carlos are a different kettle of fish however......


Most people dont carry enough medical insurance for me to sell them dogs like Arko and Carlos.:twisted:
Dogs like Lubeck can be handled by anyone........even very rich people who are willing to spend way too much money on a dog.


----------



## mike suttle

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Can't be doing that well if he sells a dog with the description he gave me of that dog. "Got to get winter clothes for the kids" ?? : )
> 
> ****ing dog brokers. Useless.


No one said I am "doing that well" Jeff. I am just trying to make a living like everyone else. I am making enough to pay the bills and to keep buying nice dogs, but thats about it, I am not getting rich doing this for sure.
What part of being a dog broker is useless? In my opinion being a bar tender is useless because I dont drink much at all, and when I do need a drink I can pour it myself.
MY job is finding and selecting dogs that are suitable for me to put my name on and sell to people looking for good dogs. Its not like I am selling drugs to kids for God's sake, why does everyone bust my balls for me doing my job? I sell high quality working dogs, at the most fair prices that I can, and I stand behind EVERY dog that I sell, so that means that I will often times get breeding quality animals in here, and I can not keep them all. I have said it many times........if you guys dont want a nice dog to leave this country, or go to work in the Govt. then you are all more than welcome to buy the dogs that you want to see stay here.:razz:
I am sorry if me selling good breeding dogs like Shaquira, Endor, Lubeck, Dingo, Lanzo, etc offends anyone. But when I buy dogs my standards are very high and often times when I find dogs that pass our selection testing they happen to be breeding quality dogs as well. There are a couple options here for everyone to consider. 
1) you provide me with dogs that pass our selection tests and I will buy those dogs from you, instead of the top breeders and trainers in Europe, this will allow the best breeding dogs to remain in Europe (at least until another vendor buys them)
2) when I bring in top level breeding dogs you can just buy them from me so that they dont leave the breeding pool
For some reason even though I am doing nothing illegal, or unethical here, and I am trying to provide dogs that are a little better than most vendors provide in the US, I still feel like by selling some of these dogs I am offending a few people.
I have sold many dogs, and a lot of people on this board have some dogs from me. If there is anyone who has a dog from me on here who is not happy with that dog, my guarantee, or my service, would you please mention it here?
Most of the people who are complaining have never even done business with me anyway! (Jeff)


----------



## Michelle Reusser

Hmph, as if anyone would have the time to gather the funds before the dog poofs! Just givin' ya shit. I don't have that kind of $ anyway. I always buy pups, those I can afford. Now how about that GSD litter????? Don't tell me you already have 45 people people with deposits down. ](*,)


----------



## mike suttle

Michelle Kehoe said:


> Hmph, as if anyone would have the time to gather the funds before the dog poofs! Just givin' ya shit. I don't have that kind of $ anyway. I always buy pups, those I can afford. Now how about that GSD litter????? Don't tell me you already have 45 people people with deposits down. ](*,)


No, I dont take deposits until I have puppies on the ground from a litter. I do have 7 names on a waiting list for puppies out of Connie. I had 11 people, but 4 people backed out when I decided to use Wasko instead of Lubeck. She is not even in heat yet, so it is a little early to talk about taking deposits.
When the litter is born I will notify everyone on the list and ask for a $300 at that time.
Let me know Michelle if you want me to add your name to the list.


----------



## Mike Di Rago

Mike,
Even if this is none of my business, I think you summed it all nicely. You never hid the fact that you sell dogs for a living and that all the people complaining about who you sell your dogs to know what they should do if they want those dogs to stay in the US. Just buy them!
This being the internet anyone can say anything.
I don't know you and I have never bought a dog from you, but if what the people here who have bought dogs from you or done business with you say is true, well I think you are doing a good job.
Let the others say what they may.
Mike


----------



## Anna Kasho

This would be the pedigree for the litter... Thoughts?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=482383&modir=617480


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I just like to torture you, and besides, WTF, you couldn't wait to sell him to breed him that one time ?? Dumbass.

What part of "I am breeding this really cool litter...........PSYCHE ! Are you having problems with ??

I was interested in the litter, even though I was not real happy with the ENS crap you insist on doing. I am not a real big fan of the DS, especially the whole can't get along with other dogs thing. Well, that and other than KNPV I don't see them doing much of anything. Dick and Selena's dogs interest me, as I have never seen a dog hit like Spike. LOL

I figure you are here, and a brother Marine, and I am gonna give you crap when you announce a possible litter that I would be interested in, and then sell the dog, like he was the only one available. Of course if you got 45,000 for the dog, maybe there is some forgiveness...................No, probably not. HA HA


----------



## Wayne Dodge

I think you made an excellent choice with Wasco. I have seen several different litters out of that dog and they have all been nice, he is a Great producer…. hands down.

As far as Mike is concerned, he is an excellent breeder that stands behind what he says and makes available some of the best dogs in this country period.
　
　
And on another note… Jeff

You mention that you are not a big fan of the Dutch Shepherd, fair enough, yet you then follow it up with the whole dog aggression thing. Do you find that the DSs you have seen have been more dog aggressive then the other herder breeds. I can say for certain that has been the opposite of my experience concerning them, I find the GSD to be the most dog aggressive followed by the Mal and then the DS. 

If so what lines are you seeing this out of?


----------



## Daryl Ehret

DS temperament has appealed least to me, though I love the intense drives, speed and athletic ability. I'd say around 80% of the DS I've seen were dog aggressive, and in general, quite out of control from what I'd expect of their handlers. JMO, admittedly from a fairly limited exposure to them, and not knowing whether looking at FCI or KNPV lines. I'd be surprised if I've seen 10% dog aggressive gsd's on the training field, and of those, handled respectably well.


----------



## Christopher Jones

Daryl Ehret said:


> DS temperament has appealed least to me, though I love the intense drives, speed and athletic ability. I'd say around 80% of the DS I've seen were dog aggressive, and in general, quite out of control from what I'd expect of their handlers. JMO, admittedly from a fairly limited exposure to them, and not knowing whether looking at FCI or KNPV lines. I'd be surprised if I've seen 10% dog aggressive gsd's on the training field, and of those, handled respectably well.


Actually I see it a bit differently with DS's. I find that they are generally social, but very dominant. If other dogs leave them alone you dont have problems, but if another dog tries to be funny, or tries to be dominant over them, then they will put down (or try to put down) the other dog.
It comes generally from the high levels of dominance that can be in these dogs. I wouldnt be surprised about seeing more GSD's under control, considering they are far, far more bidable than a strong Dutchie.


----------



## Wayne Dodge

I agree your not going to get the same level of control on a obedience field out of a DS as you would a GSD as a general rule, yet not my comment.

I consider dog aggression to be the forward and active desire to engage another dog in combat, this being said I don’t see that often in the DS in comparison to the GSD. In turn a DS will fight if another dog instigates it, they are dominant in character normally and don’t like being bullied, I would not want one that wouldn’t stand up for itself with intensity.

All of this being said the degrees of character vary greatly within each breed, if you have a dog bred for work your going to find dominance issues in multiple forms. That is why I asked Jeff as too what lines he has noticed this from…


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

In a discussion with Suttle over dog aggression in his lines, he mentioned that his Arko pups were dog aggro.

I have heard a few tales about the dog aggression in DS other than this, and that dog aggression, added to the fact that I really do not see them as good competition dogs, puts me off of them. I do not ask the lines, as I do not care for the dogs that I have seen most of the time.


----------



## mike suttle

Jeff is right, I did say that Arko sometimes produces a lot of dog aggression in his offspring. But I do not think that all Dutch Shpeherds have any more dog aggression on average than any other breed.
Carlos for example has almost no dog aggression, and his offspring that I have seen are not badly dog aggressive either.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

REALLY BORING just warning you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vgz2esZfsc

THis is my deal. But what I won't tolerate others do, and could care less. Dog aggression is a huge pain in my ass, but I know many others with good dogs that deal with it, and do not care. I do not care how a dog fight starts, I prefer dogs that do not have that type of insecurity and have to run all over pissing and marking and whatnot OCD style, or dogs that simply cannot deal with other dogs due to some odd modifier for dominance. That is my deal.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I will say that on occasion, I have seriously considered a DS to train and see what they are capable of. I don't think that will go away, and I will get one and see what it can do.

The fact that they are not really rocking the world in dogsport makes me wonder sometimes. Can they deal with the pressure to compete at the higher levels ?? I have many questions for sure. However, this thread was not about DS, it was about a stud dog.


----------



## Christopher Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The fact that they are not really rocking the world in dogsport makes me wonder sometimes. Can they deal with the pressure to compete at the higher levels ?? quote]
> 
> The fact they are not rocking the dogsport world, outside of the KNPV, is simple. They are a rare, and mostly unregsitered dog. They are not a regsitered breed in Australia and the USA for instance, so they are outside of the pedigree system. This is also why you dont see unregsitered KNPV Malis and Unregsitered NVBK Malis rocking the dogsports outside of their own.
> What pressure do you mean about in higher levels of sport?


----------



## andreas broqvist

what do you refer as dogagretion?
A male wanting to get other males, ore a dog trying to get every dog they se Male, Femael, puppy


----------



## charles Turner

mike suttle said:


> No one said I am "doing that well" Jeff. I am just trying to make a living like everyone else. I am making enough to pay the bills and to keep buying nice dogs, but thats about it, I am not getting rich doing this for sure.
> What part of being a dog broker is useless? In my opinion being a bar tender is useless because I dont drink much at all, and when I do need a drink I can pour it myself.
> MY job is finding and selecting dogs that are suitable for me to put my name on and sell to people looking for good dogs. Its not like I am selling drugs to kids for God's sake, why does everyone bust my balls for me doing my job? I sell high quality working dogs, at the most fair prices that I can, and I stand behind EVERY dog that I sell, so that means that I will often times get breeding quality animals in here, and I can not keep them all. I have said it many times........if you guys dont want a nice dog to leave this country, or go to work in the Govt. then you are all more than welcome to buy the dogs that you want to see stay here.:razz:
> I am sorry if me selling good breeding dogs like Shaquira, Endor, Lubeck, Dingo, Lanzo, etc offends anyone. But when I buy dogs my standards are very high and often times when I find dogs that pass our selection testing they happen to be breeding quality dogs as well. There are a couple options here for everyone to consider.
> 1) you provide me with dogs that pass our selection tests and I will buy those dogs from you, instead of the top breeders and trainers in Europe, this will allow the best breeding dogs to remain in Europe (at least until another vendor buys them)
> 2) when I bring in top level breeding dogs you can just buy them from me so that they dont leave the breeding pool
> For some reason even though I am doing nothing illegal, or unethical here, and I am trying to provide dogs that are a little better than most vendors provide in the US, I still feel like by selling some of these dogs I am offending a few people.
> I have sold many dogs, and a lot of people on this board have some dogs from me. If there is anyone who has a dog from me on here who is not happy with that dog, my guarantee, or my service, would you please mention it here?
> Most of the people who are complaining have never even done business with me anyway! (Jeff)


 Mike,_ cant believe you even entertain some of these dumbasses, go train, go to bed, or play with the babies, something,,,,,,,,,,,,lolololololol_


----------



## andreas broqvist

Its od to me that the DS is harder to train then the GSD.
The DS is more ore less mali and mali is mutsh mutsh easyer to train than a GSD. What make the DS so har to train?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Chuck turner, if I cannot give Suttle shit, and he give me shit back, then what the ****, maybe we should just do like you do and not ever post anything worth **** all. HA HA

Andreas, I have no idea what the **** you just asked me. And no, I don't care if english is your second or third language, I figure you are a bulldog boy, and your first language is probably butchered as well. HA HA

Suttle, bite me, as you probably already know, I don't care how well you are or are not doing, it was all about seeing what that dog could produce. LOL One ****ING litter for Christs sake. **** me. ](*,)](*,)](*,):razz:


----------



## andreas broqvist

I dient ask you "big ego ". I did ask peopel overal what they se as dog agretion.
Male VS male ore a dog that want to eat everydog they se.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

andreas broqvist said:


> I dient ask you "big ego ". I did ask peopel overal what they se as dog agretion.
> Male VS male ore a dog that want to eat everydog they se.


Andreas - I don't post anything worth a crap lately. Don't pay too much attention to "grumpy".

I speak Spanish the way you write English. I butcher this language and I've been around it for many years. I have no excuse. Keep trying! :grin:


----------



## Chris McDonald

andreas broqvist said:


> what do you refer as dogagretion?
> A male wanting to get other males, ore a dog trying to get every dog they se Male, Femael, puppy


Dog aggression when a dog is aggressive towards another dog. What does it matter if it is a male or female?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Bulldog people try and break their dog aggression into little chunks so that they can fell good because their dog is only dog aggro in _______ situation, so he really isn't dog aggressive.....or dog INSECURE.


----------



## David Ruby

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Bulldog people try and break their dog aggression into little chunks so that they can fell good because their dog is only dog aggro in _______ situation, so he really isn't dog aggressive.....or dog INSECURE.


Maybe you should hang out with some different Bulldog people. Or, you know, try not using broad sweeping over-generalizations. :-k



andreas broqvist said:


> I did ask peopel overal what they se as dog agretion.
> Male VS male ore a dog that want to eat everydog they se.


I'm not an expert, nor claiming to be one, and I'll definitely defer to those with more experience than me, but from my experiences and seeing other dog aggressive dogs react, different dogs seem to be triggered by different things. A lot are probably just insecure. Certainly not all. My Bulldog didn't like males or females, but got along fine with my parents' and sister's Dachshunds. It was controllable but you always knew it was there. Some dogs particularly in the fighting breeds want to kill any dogs (although I'd lack of socialization a/o training are probably partially to blame in most cases like that), others reportedly just want to fight dominant dogs (usually of the same gender, but I have heard of male & female fights), some are fine most of the time until a dog does something they don't like. I've also had trainers only classify it as true dog aggression when it was fighting for the sake of fighting or killing the other dog, not just fighting to gain dominance or fighting because one dog is insecure. It wasn't compartmentalizing it, it was a training issue and something that was addressed differently based on what was going in the dog's mind and what was causing it. I don't know anybody that feels better because their dog's truly dog aggressive or insecure or has dominant issues or is a punk around other dogs. Regardless, it IS a pain to deal with and generally no fun.

I also know of at least two people personally that have American Bulldogs (sometimes legitimately genetically dog-aggressive dogs) as their personal dogs, between them doing protection work (Mondio in one case), SAR, dog training classes, and public awareness stuff with their dogs (parades, pet stuff, CGC, ATTS, etc.) that require them to be around other dogs and be stable and trustworthy. They are trained to ignore other dogs and _not_ react, even if the other dog places their mouth on them (e.g. if somebody's dog gets off-lead and charges your dog and you call the dog out to keep them from responding). So it IS possible to have a dog that wants to fight other dogs but doesn't because you train it not to. Not something that is fun to deal with, some seem to treat it as just another training issue while others won't keep a dog aggressive dog period, but it is what it is. Of course, it is also possible to have a Bulldog that works (not saying they're Malinois, but they really don't have to be), is stable around other dogs (not that I'd be stupid about it), and not psychoanalyze the dog if it has aggressive or dominant character traits. Jeff doesn't buy it, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. 

-Cheers


----------



## Timothy Saunders

Wow Mike you really bring it out people . I think this thread started about


----------



## Timothy Saunders

sorry all I hit the wrong key I think this threaded started about Lubeck. I was in Holland in Sept and had a chance to see this dog in person( thanks Gerben). I have never seen a gsd that fast. I have video where the dog got to the decoy before the camera. The hits were very hard every time and the dog was social. In my opion anyone looking for a real working, stable gsd should definately give this dog a look.


----------



## andreas broqvist

Lee, thanks. No problem I realy down mind Jeff´s grupmy attetude ore his cloesminded Views. Why wuld I care abaout a balding old man 1000 of miles apart from me 

David.
Jeff is kind of right, I do break dog aggression into difrent chunks. Becaus to me its a big diferens If I have a dog that are full blown dogagresive ore just somwhat hard to have around the same gender of dogs.
To me fullblown dogagretion is a dog that do not tollerat any dogs, If the gets los they will aktevly seek out dog to fight with. This is a big hasel and not dogs that I want to have anyting to do with.

A dog that are somwhat hard to have around dogs with the same gender is not a problem to me, They are pretty easy to contol and its easy to know what and when thye are going to pick a fight. 

Becaus many peopel have a vast difernes in what they feel are dogagretion to me its important to know what they feel are dogagretion when the say a breed is wery dogagresive.
Almost every GSD, Mali and sertenly Doberman and Rotty I have traind with are agresive against dogs with the same gender, But its no problem becaus I do not se the point in leting grown dogs play with etshother if thye arent in the sam pack.

If you look at golden retrivers the View of dogagretion is realy difernet than if you look at GSDs.


----------



## Chris McDonald

Sorry, Tim is right. I had to go back and look 15 pages ago it started about a new dog.


----------



## mike suttle

Chris McDonald said:


> Sorry, Tim is right. I had to go back and look 15 pages ago it started about a new dog.


No worries.....the dog has been sold anyway. I am glad this thread got sidetracked because it stopped everyone from crusifying me about selling a dog!!
So lets change the topic to a couple other nice GSD's I have for sale now!!!!
A SchH 3 Dutch National Competitor son from Natz Tiekerhook, and a super nice Jimm son! LOL


----------



## Chris McDonald

mike suttle said:


> No worries.....the dog has been sold anyway. I am glad this thread got sidetracked because it stopped everyone from crusifying me about selling a dog!!
> So lets change the topic to a couple other nice GSD's I have for sale now!!!!
> A SchH 3 Dutch National Competitor son from Natz Tiekerhook, and a super nice Jimm son! LOL


Ha


----------

