# Proofing The Recall



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Just looking for some different ideas of proofing the recall, and or training the recall. Some people have different techniques, and was looking for ideas.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Todd,

I LOVE the recall. My favorite thing to train. I have some youtube videos on recall. I've posted them in various places on the board, you've probably seen them! They show two styles of training and two styles of proofing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AnneVaini


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I begin teaching this exercise rite from the start of basic puppy training after a training session I have a assistant hold the pup by the leash and I tease with a high value toy then I take off running flailing the toy making exiting pray/play I turn and in a the formal position I call the pup my assistant releases the pup I begin to run back encouraging the pup verbally and with flailing the toy the. Pup gets to me and gets to grab toy and play hard crazy maybe do another depends on the pup end the session with the pup exited and wanting more. 
I always give the formal stance rite from the beginning when I recall teaches fun and good things are a coming. 
How long of distance I go and how long I hold the formal position depends on the pup I NEVER want the pup slowing down when getting close to me. 
So now I extend the formal position longer the pup gets closer and closer before breaking into play. Here is a little technique that requires a little skill and timing and has a REAL element of danger.
I maintain the formal position and just BEFOR the pup thinks about slowing down I fire the toy between my legs and the pup runs through all I can say is be careful I can only speak from the male point of view but one wrong move on your part or the dogs :-oit can make for a miserable day or two.
After you have your sit or your downs solid you can abandon the assistant just be careful the dog doesn't anticipate to much and break. I do this for months.
Now I need add the front sit this should have been taught separate with toy or food probably both.
With a toy and a assistant I go back to the beginning but from a short distance I play the recall game a couple of times.
This will take a little practice I call the dog I'm in the formal position and I simaltaniously say sit and bringing the toy into my neck and hold with my chin as soon as the dog's but hits the ground I let the toy go.
I mix this up with toy between so the dog doesn't anticipate the front and start slowing down. Also I marker train so only after a couple of very quick sit fronts I will add a release command before I let the toy drop from my neck. Extend distance and sit time in front keep mixing it up I also teach my dog to be neutral for the toy so I can hide it hold it in my hand what ever but This is how I train you don't have to.
The dog must be straight in front never pay the dog for a crocked front.
Now here is where timing comes in I want my dog coming in like a rocket and to lock up at the last moment possible. So I use a cue for when I am going to do a formal front and nothing when I'm going blast the toy between my legs.
Before I give the cue I have to take into consideration the dogs speed and train the dog is running on so I can stop him at the last second to make a rocket recall but still have a strait front.
Here is what I do I haven't ever been dinged for handler help by a judge for this.
From standing in the formal position I recall my dog I maintain my posture looking rite over the dog, at the moment I think the dog needs to slow down I make eye contact and look him down till he is sitting in front maintain eye contact till I release or finish. The dog doesn't know till I make eye contact and slowly moving my head down as he is coming in that this will be a front. If this is going to be a run through I just look straight ahead mix it up.
Taylor this method for the individual dog. I'm not sure this would work well if the dog/pup isn't toy driven.
Another road to Rome


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks Mike, I got the basic recall, and front, down pretty good. I taught it a little bit different. When he was at about14 weeks, I put him on a 8ft leash and in a sit. walk out in front of him till the end of the leash, with a treat held out in front I would give him the here command and run backwards praising the whole time. When he would start to get close I would raise the treat up util he was in the front sit position. Then reward and praise. This worked pretty quickly for me. Now instead of the treat I use the ball. You do have to be careful of the jewels when doing this. He had a tendency to come in a little quick. My problem is the distactions. If we are training and he knows I have the ball it's all good. NO ball Slow reaction to the command. I'm talking high level distractions squirrel, cat's, other dogs etc... Am I asking too much too soon? He just turned 1 yr. I have a tendency to go a lttle quick at training. My helper/trainer is always reminding me that he is still a puppy. Other than this it's been pretty good. At what age do you think a dog should be completely proofed at the recall, under any distraction?


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Like I said different road's to Rome  My proofing starts when he is a pup perfect example is Anne's video. Dogs/pup desires getting what he wants he must do what I want to get what he wants


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Train the front and the recall totally separately. The front I train out of tug games (to prepare for a formal retrieve).

I don't think you are asking to much. At 12 months, I expect to be able to recall a dog (offlead, no visible reward) from:

1. getting petted by a friendly stranger
2. playing with another dog
3. chasing small animals

But at 12 months, I'm not asking for a lot of things you probably are. Not started on the stay commands yet. Not working on combining finishes into exercises. Not doing formal retrieve. I spend the first year on foundations. Most of that is focus/attention/recall/call-off. I'll train recall in highly distracting environments (think dog park) about 10 hours a week with a puppy/young dog.

I think you need to go back in training. It IS a puppy, and it doesn't understand recall in the same way YOU understand it. The element of recall that is frequently forgotten in your average basic obedience is teaching the dog to disengage its attention from a distraction and TURN to the handler.

I want my dogs to "spin on a dime" and have an enthusiastic and fast recall.

How to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S224wnlt2Ps

Results: 

3 month old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ4SCtGFzs4

Puppy had never been around a distraction before.

6 month old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC6qy_AnCGw 

Puppy was on a long-line as I didn't trust it to come when called. Notice, that she recalls before hitting the end of the line.

17 month old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAWPiVLXwtY

It's too bad the dog is the same color as the ground. I let my somewhat dog-vs-dog aggressive dog loose in a dog park, allowed her freedon and recalled her from going to interact with another dog.


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks Anne, handler error. When he was younger, he was pretty good at it, so I kinda slacked off on it a little.:-k Now it's bitin' me in the ass. Seems I skipped right over the proofing stage. 10hrs a week seems like alot, but then again, your recall works:-D I'll have to focus more on that instead of all the other exercises in schutzhund.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

IMO, focus (attention, recall, call-off) is the most important command. Because if your dog isn't paying attention, it will miss other commands.

But DON'T do 10 hrs a week. :lol: I have a dog with such great recall that I can't show it off. I've nearly created a velcro dog. Which is why I'm training a send-away now!

I do have to say, that my dog(s) show MUCH greater enthusiasm for a recall in a real-life situation that a fromal recall. They drag their little heineys over like it's gonna kill them on a formal recall. And it isn't because of correction or confustion on the front position. 

I will never ever get tired of watching a dog spin around come running when called.


----------

