# Ecollar Random Stim?



## Kathleen Sanderson (Sep 19, 2011)

Is it possible for an ecollar to emit random stim without the remote being hit? I had a weird incident last weekend with my bitch randomly yelping a few times while playing (twice while engaged in tugging on a pillow with a full grip, once when jumping up for a tug, but not biting, once when tugging on a tug, but with all four feet on the ground, and once without biting at all - simply rolling in something delicious), and I am trying to narrow down possible causes. 

She wears an ecollar while outside on our property, if not on leash, for safety reasons (deer and wildlife chasing). The button was definitely not hit when she yelped, and the stim level on the remote was set pretty low (if actually hit, it wouldn't cause her to yelp). 

Her reaction each time was in line with a short, sharp pain. I have had her checked out by a chiro DVM, and we can't find anything that would cause her to yelp. Other than the yelping (and reaction), she is acting normal. I am not say it WAS the ecollar. I am just wondering if it is possible as I continue to monitor her. 

Thanks!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I imagine it could be possible. I have never had it happen, or heard of it happening, I have heard of peoples collars getting crossed, a freak random thing where 2 collars in the same range had the same frequency, or close enough to activate another collar, that was not theirs....

lets get this question out of the way right quick... 

What brand is the Ecollar???


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

i have heard of (and unfortunately, experienced) automated bark collars malfunctioning and zapping the crap out of a poor dog... but never heard of it happening with the remote trainer types... i guess it could happen, though - would it be possible to have the collar returned to and inspected by the manufacturer to check for faults?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jay Quinn said:


> i have heard of (and unfortunately, experienced) automated bark collars malfunctioning and zapping the crap out of a poor dog... but never heard of it happening with the remote trainer types... i guess it could happen, though - would it be possible to have the collar returned to and inspected by the manufacturer to check for faults?


that I have had happen...
that was an innotek bark collar. I think that the trigger for a bark collar can be set off more easily, without the dog barking... if I rub the contacts on and minorly rough surface it stims, from the vibrations.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

Joby, i can't remember the brand that we had troubles with, but they were sound-only activated, no vibration at all required, on dogs that were kenneled in close proximity to others... and i'd told the guy he was going to regret getting them... :/

i had a few small incidents with collars being set off by dogs other than the one wearing them, but the guy wouldnt believe me until i was on the phone to him while i was down at the kennels and one malfunctioned on his GSD bitch... poor thing was screaming her head off and throwing a fit, he could hear all the noise over the phone and then i somehow managed to keep the phone to my head with my shoulder while i let the bitch out of her kennel (to get her away from the noise of the others, but it kept on zapping away), copped about a dozen redirected but thankfully inhibited bites (she wasnt a very strong dog anyway, ended up with a ripped shirt and some good bruises but no broken skin) and then managed to get a hold of her to rip the collar off... 

he believed me then >_<


personally i've only ever used an innotek bark collar, vibration-only activation, it seems to take a decent amount of vibration to set off, and i've never had an issue with it... i also have one of innotek's cheaper remote trainers (7 levels) and i had the magnetic switch die on me, replaced whole reciever unit under warranty... but no issues with it zapping the dogs accidentally...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jay Quinn said:


> Joby, i can't remember the brand that we had troubles with, but they were sound-only activated, no vibration at all required, on dogs that were kenneled in close proximity to others... and i'd told the guy he was going to regret getting them... :/
> 
> i had a few small incidents with collars being set off by dogs other than the one wearing them, but the guy wouldnt believe me until i was on the phone to him while i was down at the kennels and one malfunctioned on his GSD bitch... poor thing was screaming her head off and throwing a fit, he could hear all the noise over the phone and then i somehow managed to keep the phone to my head with my shoulder while i let the bitch out of her kennel (to get her away from the noise of the others, but it kept on zapping away), copped about a dozen redirected but thankfully inhibited bites (she wasnt a very strong dog anyway, ended up with a ripped shirt and some good bruises but no broken skin) and then managed to get a hold of her to rip the collar off...
> 
> ...


I can see that totally, some dogs bark upwards of 120+ Decibels. That being too close to a sound activated collar on another dog would I imagine set the collar off on occasion...


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

The pain on tugging thing sounds like something that was happening to my dog. Sudden stop and scream like I'd stomped on his toes, and then fine seconds later. Never pinned down what was causing him pain during tugging or bitework and retired him. No ecollar, so that wasn't causing it.

Maybe the experts could weigh in on the possibility of some other device in the vicinity using the same frequency and causing the collar to go off randomly.

Or you could just take the collar off and do the same activities and see if you get the same thing happening.


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

At my old work I was using an older model Dogtra and I swear the same thing happened. The dog started yelping and jumping around like it was being stimmed. Had another issue with the same older collars that I'd keep the level the same for the dog (say, a 20) and sometimes a 20 would be a great level and sometimes the dog would scream like it had been hit on a much higher level even though nothing had changed. I forget the model but the collars were older. Never had issues with my newer dogtra collars. But I imagine this kind of malfunction can happen.


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## Kathleen Sanderson (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks guys. Its a Dogtra, and a relatively new one at that (a year or so old), and not a bark collar. Just a normal, two dog series - 2300 I think. She is a schH2 dog, still in training for her 3, and I've never had this happen before while doing bitework. And two of the five yelps weren't during biting.

It is certainly possible its tooth related (although immediately afterwards I deliberately gave her a pork neck bone to eat, and sat there and watched her chomp at it from every possible angle and using every possible tooth in her mouth - no yelping), or inner ear, or something strange like that. If the yelping continues, I will go down that road. It could also be a pinched nerve...although her chiro vet manipulated her all possible ways and said everything felt great. She is a dog whose structure has held up tremendously over the years..never big on getting injured despite herself.

Her collar also has that new BB flexible collar strap. I've wondered if the plastic part was pinching her somehow. 

May sound strange, but I am contemplating attaching her collar to my leg or arm for a day and seeing what happens. In the meantime, I'm switching her to a different ecollar while outside (with a different strap), and she doesn't wear one while doing bitework training. So I will continue to monitor to see if I can figure this out. 

If its an injury, okay, but at this point, I can't even narrow down where the injury might be. She is not lame, not favoring anything, and so far I haven't been able to repeat the yelping...

Thanks again for the responses!


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## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

You could also take her out without the e-collar (perhaps put her on a long line instead) and have her perform the same behaviors and see if she has the same reaction. I'd do it more than once if there was no reaction the first session. If she yelps with no e-collar on, then you know it's not the collar and can continue to look for a physical reason.


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## Kathleen Sanderson (Sep 19, 2011)

Alison - Yup! Absolutely. I've done that and not been able to recreate the yelping thus far. Part of why I am wondering if it was the collar malfunctioning.


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## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

I had a short in my remote. Same type of responce as you had. Only noticed when i put the remote down and saw the light blink. Turned it off and shook it and there was something moving around.. really sucked but glad i figured it out..


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Dana McMahan said:


> At my old work I was using an older model Dogtra and I swear the same thing happened. The dog started yelping and jumping around like it was being stimmed. Had another issue with the same older collars that I'd keep the level the same for the dog (say, a 20) and sometimes a 20 would be a great level and sometimes the dog would scream like it had been hit on a much higher level even though nothing had changed. I forget the model but the collars were older. Never had issues with my newer dogtra collars. But I imagine this kind of malfunction can happen.


Same here Dana. I have a 1200NCP that one correction on say a 25 and my dog thinks it's a fly and the next time same level you would have thought I was using a high voltage line. I think in my instance the dial rheostat may be going/gone bad.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Dogtra Collars old and new have a propensity to give erratic stims.
Poor QC and/or the rheostat design? I don't know or care.
I don't want a collar that can't give reliable repeatable stimulation at all levels.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> The pain on tugging thing sounds like something that was happening to my dog. Sudden stop and scream like I'd stomped on his toes, and then fine seconds later. Never pinned down what was causing him pain during tugging or bitework and retired him. No ecollar, so that wasn't causing it.


That sounds similar to what was wrong with my guy before I started taking him to a chiropractor.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Kathleen Sanderson said:


> Is it possible for an ecollar to emit random stim without the remote being hit?


Of course it is. Any device can malfunction. Send it in and get it fixed.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

It's absurd in the extreme, to say that any tool, no matter what it is, has _"a propensity to"_ malfunction. Any device, no matter how simple, can break. I know people who can break a crowbar. If one brand or another had such a _"propensity"_ it would quickly fall out of the market. Yet a poll done here, just over a year ago, revealed that 67% of the members responding, preferred Dogtra and only 29% preferred TT. If one brand had a reputation for unreliability, it certainly would not be favored. 

I stopped using TT's years ago because mine kept malfunctioning and the Dogtras had a much better system for delivering stim and allowed for greater precision in selecting the stim levels. I'd sent my TT Pro 1000 (their top model in the line) in for repairs FIVE TIMES and they still could not repair it. But for me to say that the brand had a _"propensity"_ to malfunction would just be ignorant.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

How many WDF members have to complain that their Dogtra e-collars give random and/or unreliable stimulation before anyone's allowed to say "Dogtra we have a problem"
Not working is different then no stim one time and BLAST out of the dogs skin the next, which is what several people have reported. People buy the cheaper product most of the time, but a Mercedes is better then a Kia.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

The WDF is famous for allowing people to say just about anything that they want to say, no matter how stupid, bizarre, or absurd it is. If one looks at the complaints about Dogtra Ecollars one discovers that in some cases the collars have been 10-12 years old. Cell phones rarely last that long. CB radios rarely last that long. In fact, FEW portable electronic devices, rarely last that long, especially given the hostile environments that Ecollars are found in. In some cases, the users weren't putting the collars on properly, indicating a problem that would have occurred with any brand of Ecollar. 

Since there are more Dogtras in use here, at a ratio of about than 2.3:1, it only makes sense that there would be more problems reported with them. 

When you buy a Mercedes, you're paying THOUSANDS of dollars for the name. Things are no different with Ecollars except, instead of thousands, it's hundreds. 

I had to send my *TRI-TRONICS *Pro 1000 Ecollar back to *TRI-TRONICS  FIVE TIMES * and still, they were unable to fix it. I finally stopped using it because it was so defective and unreliable. Even though I'd paid for the name, it still wasn't a Mercedes. ROFL. 

But still, it would have been stupid of me to say that there was a "problem" with TT _as a company. _ It WOULD be accurate to say, that, as with any large company manufacturing thousands of units, that they put out a few defective ones. But some have an agenda that reaches far and wide.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Lou Castle said:


> Since there are more Dogtras in use here, at a ratio of about than 2.3:1,


Uncle Lou...how the heck did you come up with this ratio???? :lol: 2.3????


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Doug Zaga said:


> Uncle Lou...how the heck did you come up with this ratio???? :lol: 2.3????


The poll I referred to showed a preference for Dogtra over TT. 67% favored Dogtra and 29% favored TT. That's a ratio of 2.3:1. The actual numbers were 51 for Dogtra and 22 for TT. Also a ratio of 2.3:1. 

That is, 2.3 times as many people preferred Dogtra when compared to the number who preferred TT. 

Something wrong with the math?


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## Kathleen Sanderson (Sep 19, 2011)

Lou Castle said:


> Of course it is. Any device can malfunction. Send it in and get it fixed.


Thanks Lou!


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## Kathleen Sanderson (Sep 19, 2011)

chad paquin said:


> I had a short in my remote. Same type of responce as you had. Only noticed when i put the remote down and saw the light blink. Turned it off and shook it and there was something moving around.. really sucked but glad i figured it out..


Thanks for the thoughts Chad! I wasn't paying any attention to the remote (other than knowing that I wasn't hitting the button). My first thought was injury to the dog...I wasn't thinking about the e-collar until I was taking it off.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Doug Zaga said:


> Uncle Lou...how the heck did you come up with this ratio???? :lol: 2.3????





Lou Castle said:


> The poll I referred to showed a preference for Dogtra over TT. 67% favored Dogtra and 29% favored TT. That's a ratio of 2.3:1. The actual numbers were 51 for Dogtra and 22 for TT. Also a ratio of 2.3:1.
> 
> That is, 2.3 times as many people preferred Dogtra when compared to the number who preferred TT.
> 
> Something wrong with the math?


What poll? Was this a gallup poll or a Joby Becker poll :razz:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Doug Zaga said:


> What poll? Was this a gallup poll or a Joby Becker poll :razz:


cant think of anything witty....just got up.need coffee..


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Enough*



Lou Castle said:


> It's absurd in the extreme, to say that any tool, no matter what it is, has _"a propensity to"_ malfunction. Any device, no matter how simple, can break. I know people who can break a crowbar. If one brand or another had such a _"propensity"_ it would quickly fall out of the market. Yet a poll done here, just over a year ago, revealed that 67% of the members responding, preferred Dogtra and only 29% preferred TT. If one brand had a reputation for unreliability, it certainly would not be favored.
> 
> I stopped using TT's years ago because mine kept malfunctioning and the Dogtras had a much better system for delivering stim and allowed for greater precision in selecting the stim levels. I'd sent my TT Pro 1000 (their top model in the line) in for repairs FIVE TIMES and they still could not repair it. But for me to say that the brand had a _"propensity"_ to malfunction would just be ignorant.


Lou,

It seems you can't help but respond and quote my posts, despite the moderator warnings for us it ignore each other.
However please quote me accurately. I did NOT say 
"a propensity to MALFUNCTION"
I said " a propensity to GIVE ERRATIC STIMS"
BIG difference

"Dogtra Collars old and new have a propensity to give erratic stims. Poor QC and/or the rheostat design? I don't know or care. I don't want a collar that can't give reliable repeatable stimulation at all levels."

To anyone ELSE who has ever used a tri-tronics brand collar.
Have you ever had a problem with your collar delivering no stim (or very low stim) and then VERY high stimulation at the very same setting?

RE: The Poll

What's the old saying about three kinds of lies
lies
damn lies and
statistics 
Trying to draw conclusions from a poll with 100 replies is "ambitious" at best. Go back and look at the replies and see how scientific they were?
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f27/dogtra-tri-tronics-other-19437/index2.html


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Doug Zaga said:


> What poll? Was this a gallup poll or a Joby Becker poll


I don't believe that Gallup does polls on Ecollars. Here's the link to the poll that asked users of this site which brand of Ecollar they preferred. 

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f27/dogtra-tri-tronics-other-19437/

It was started by Harry Keely.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Lou,
> 
> It seems you can't help but respond and quote my posts, despite the moderator warnings for us it ignore each other.


The warning was not for us _"it [sic] [to] ignore each other."_ Rather Connie wrote,


> Lou and Thomas, please do not address each other or talk about each other again *in this thread. * [Emphasis Added]


Notice the end of the sentence, _"in this thread."_ (Referring to the thread in which she wrote that comment). Since you've started up again, as you always do, I have no doubt that Connie or another moderator will extend the request to this thread as well and possibly to all threads. Something that I welcome as you turn discussions with me into personal attacks and are unable to remain polite and professional. But until then ... 



Thomas Barriano said:


> However please quote me accurately. I did NOT say
> "a propensity to MALFUNCTION"
> I said " a propensity to GIVE ERRATIC STIMS"
> BIG difference


Details are important. I DID NOT misquote you. Here's EXACTLY what I wrote,


> It's absurd in the extreme, to say that any tool, no matter what it is, has _"a propensity to"_ malfunction.


 Notice that the quotation marks end at the word "to" indicating that's where my quotation ended. You, however extended your quotation marks to the end of the word "malfunction." *YOU MISquoted me! * Pot – Kettle – Black. 

I disagree that there's a _"BIG DIFFERENCE."_ In fact, I don't think that there's even a SMALL difference. No Ecollar is designed to "give erratic stims." Therefore when that occurs, it's a malfunction, as I said. 

I also noticed that when you quoted my post you removed the formatting that I'd applied in my original post, so in effect, you *MIS*quoted me AGAIN! Pot – Kettle – Black AGAIN! 



Thomas Barriano said:


> "Dogtra Collars old and new have a propensity to give erratic stims. Poor QC and/or the rheostat design? I don't know or care. I don't want a collar that can't give reliable repeatable stimulation at all levels."


No, they don't have such a _"propensity."_ ANY mechanical or electrical device can malfunction, especially as they age. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> RE: The Poll
> ... Trying to draw conclusions from a poll with 100 replies is "ambitious" at best.


I drew no _"conclusions from [this] poll."_ I cited the results directly. BTW, the poll had *76 * votes. The thread had *63 *replies. ROFL, you can't even get something this basic right. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> Go back and look at the replies and see how scientific they were?


_"... how *scientific * they were?"_ It wasn't intended to be a "scientific poll." Rather it was an attempt to see what Ecollar people on this forum used and preferred. The OP was gathering information in preparation for a purchase. There's no _"science"_ here, we're talking about people's personal experiences. 

Fact is, based on the response to questions on this forum, people prefer Dogtra Ecollars over TT Ecollars at a rate of 2.3:1. This poll was started in March 2011 and the last post in that thread was in March of this year. If you think that something has changed, please start another poll. I'd bet that the results would be quite similar to this one.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

More semantics and BS
You implied that I'd said Dogtra Collars had a Propensity to Malfunction. I did NOT, I stated they had a propensity to deliver erratic stimulation.
You now are trying to claim a "personal attack" when you in fact
responded to my post and I corrected you.
I'll let Connie or anther mod decide if you're nit picking attempt
to qualify the "warning" applied to the previous post only.
Have a nice day


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Here is the mods' take.

Lou, please stop responding to Thomas's posts. Thomas, please don't respond to Lou's posts.

Thank you.




All the mods


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Here is the mods' take.
> 
> Lou, please stop responding to Thomas's posts. Thomas, please don't respond to Lou's posts.
> Thank you.
> *All the mods*


are you like the Speaker of the House  (not politcal in nature)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

We take turns.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I had one of the early bark collars back in the late 60s. It worked strictly on vibration. It went off when the other dogs barked, it went off when I started my motorcycle, it went off when a cop car/fire truck went down the street, it went off if a bird farted when it flew over the yard. 
It made that poor dog punch drunk in a very short time till I realize how bad it was.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Here is the mods' take.
> 
> Lou, please stop responding to Thomas's posts. Thomas, please don't respond to Lou's posts.
> 
> ...


Great,

Then please delete the posts where Lou quotes (or partially quotes) something I posted previously. (That was no addressed to him and had nothing to do with him) This nit
picking, game playing semantics BS is getting old. Writing
"a propensity to" malfunction when I stated "a propensity to give erratic stims" is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what I wrote. This game playing the mods said "in this thread"
qualifier when everyone knows DAMN well what you meant is more BS.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Please drop it. 

Please return to the topic. We are not editing every post anyone makes. Believe me when I say they will be gone from here long before that ever happens.


Clarifying: We do not mean "in this thread." We mean forevermore.

You and Thomas have to stop replying to, quoting, and talking about each other.

Starting ..... looks at wristwatch ..... NOW.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> You and Thomas have to stop replying to, quoting, and talking about each other.
> 
> Starting ..... looks at wristwatch ..... NOW.


Sometimes this forum has a way of developing places like those we all eventually seem to find in YouTube. At some point, people find themselves thinking WTF, how the hell did I get here??

Something about the direction of this thread reminded me of when my brother would purposely creep over, even if it was just the tip of his finger, to where my couch cushion started or push into that invisible line on the back seat of the car was that he wasn't supposed to cross. God forbid we even looked at each other once this started and then someone would whine s/he's looking at me!

Connie, thanks. That was pretty amusing.


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