# Getting Bit for Real by a friend's dog



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Susan Tuck posted this in another thread and it made me think about what I would do to the dog if a club member's dog turned on me.

"we had a member who asked me to hold his dog for him for a recall, but when the guy was about 10 feet from me the dog turned and attacked me, biting my face & arm. I still have the semi circle of tooth mark scars in my forearm I received as a lovely parting gift."


I don't know how I really would react but I know I would be pissed and want to kick the dog's ass but this is a club dog and I wouldn't want to screw it up either. I think I would do my best to grab the collar and just hold the dog still from behind him.

What would you do? What have you done? Susan?


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

I absolutely will not do that for anyone unless it's a dog I know REALLY well and one I've never decoyed. I have held the leash for the owner to walk a few feet away but I'm always extremely aware of what the dog is doing. Some dogs can be overly sensitive to things like that. Bottom line is if it's not your dog you have no idea how it's going to react to you holding the leash while Daddy or Mommy walks away, regardless of how many times you've been around that dog.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> Susan Tuck posted this in another thread and it made me think about what I would do to the dog if a club member's dog turned on me.
> 
> "we had a member who asked me to hold his dog for him for a recall, but when the guy was about 10 feet from me the dog turned and attacked me, biting my face & arm. I still have the semi circle of tooth mark scars in my forearm I received as a lovely parting gift."
> 
> ...


It happens so fast you usually wont know what hit you unless less the the bastard really comes at ya and tries to tear you up.
We have been doing this as long as I can remember but it starts with pups and young dogs still something to be mindful of with older dogs for sure.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

"we had a member who asked me to hold his dog for him for a recall, but when the guy was about 10 feet from me the dog turned and attacked me, biting my face & arm. I still have the semi circle of tooth mark scars in my forearm I received as a lovely parting gift."

I don't consider this an "attack"


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## shawn murace (Feb 20, 2007)

I'd be pissed. If you posed no threat and were holding the leash what would be the provocation? Plus most of the dogs I have seen in the various dog sports as an observer and trainer is that the dogs are taught to bite and hold on so no need for the multiple bites (face and forearm). I wouldn't care about screwing up the dogs training. If he's that civil, me hanging him isn't going to ruin him but I'm not going to risk my face in order to protect his drive.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> "we had a member who asked me to hold his dog for him for a recall, but when the guy was about 10 feet from me the dog turned and attacked me, biting my face & arm. I still have the semi circle of tooth mark scars in my forearm I received as a lovely parting gift."
> 
> I don't consider this an "attack"


Hi Al

I don't consider it an "attack" either, more like a frustration bite
because he really wanted to get to the owner (which is what a
restrained recall is supposed to develop). It all depends on the
details. Was the dog on a 6 ft lead and he turned AWAY from the owner to bite the person on the end of the leash or were they much closer holding him by a collar or harness?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm sorry for Susan's injuries but I don't consider this as an "attack" on a stranger, but as an attempt to free himself to go after his owner.

I onced decoyed (*don't laugh*) for a colleague's weak GSD bitch many years ago. He thought that he could get it to bite. I was young, swift, and posed no real threat to the dog!!!!

Afterwards he asked me to hold the bitch and she immediately circled me, wrapping the lead round me, snapping all the time. I stood still, dropped the lead, rotated, and she stopped as soon as she was free.

I really think it's one of the most idiotic things to ask someone to do with an adult dog. We have used this to get pups to run faster to their handlers but we hold them on the collar and they are usually so worried about "His Master's Voice" getting away that they never, but never, turn around.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

"we had a member who asked me to hold his dog for him for a recall, but when the guy was about 10 feet from me the dog turned and attacked me, biting my face & arm. I still have the semi circle of tooth mark scars in my forearm I received as a lovely parting gift."


My question would be; was this "semi circle" punctures or just marks in the skin. If they weren't punctures, the dog was just trying to get away. If the dog was really trying to bite and didn't puncture, that could be a problem.

DFrost


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

I'm sorry if I find this post funny but I read and listen and talk to people that want to train real dogs. Then when they get bit there like WTF happen. Folks its going to happen once or more than once in your life time if your training hard with these types of dogs. I been imprinted and punctured, bruised, etc.... You either got to get over it and continue on or get out of dogs and by you a pet.

At no point you should kick another members ass or the dog ass for getting bit, its part of training dogs for sport and real life applications. Accidents happen wheter its a oops or a intentional bite by the dog. Anyways JMO. Good luck with your training folks.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

> At no point you should kick another members ass or the dog ass for getting bit, its part of training dogs for sport and real life applications. Accidents happen wheter its a oops or a intentional bite by the dog. Anyways JMO. Good luck with your training folks


I agree with this. 

I was holding one of Judge's 1/2 siblings that is INSANE in a good way for his breeder. lol Very driven. She was switching crates around or something, anyway, the dog got all amped up waiting around watching squirrels. He turned and grabbed my arm pretty good, no need for stitches but I probably should have had them. I told him "Out" and he let go, I shoved a tug that was nearby in his mouth as his breeder took him back from me. I just chalked it up to dealing with a good working dog. 

Getting bit doesn't really phase me anymore.....Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> I'm sorry if I find this post funny but I read and listen and talk to people that want to train real dogs. Then when they get bit there like WTF happen. Folks its going to happen once or more than once in your life time if your training hard with these types of dogs. I been imprinted and punctured, bruised, etc.... You either got to get over it and continue on or get out of dogs and by you a pet.
> 
> At no point you should kick another members ass or the dog ass for getting bit, its part of training dogs for sport and real life applications. Accidents happen wheter its a oops or a intentional bite by the dog. Anyways JMO. Good luck with your training folks.


 I think you hit the nail on the head. I've been bit, beat up, bruised, scratched up and in general had the hell beat out of me by a couple of dogs. It's part of the sign on bonus. I've never threatened to beat the dog or the handler. It's part of the deal, and if you do it long enough it will happen, somehow. You just suck it up and go on or quit. I've had to chuckle myself in the past because the dogs all of us want to see work are the ones that are literally trying to tear the decoy apart. Guess what? That same dog will do it to you if it gets the chance. Too many people want to train their dogs to bite and then wonder why it happens when someone who's basically a stranger is holding the leash.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I think the last two posters are missing the point.

As far as I'm concerned, we're talking about dogs held back from going to their handlers. Either you hold the dog on a long line and, when handler calls him, you let go, ôr you run the risk of being bitten.

I don't think any other type of "holding the dog back was mentioned".


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I think the last two posters are missing the point.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, we're talking about dogs held back from going to their handlers. Either you hold the dog on a long line and, when handler calls him, you let go, ôr you run the risk of being bitten.
> 
> I don't think any other type of "holding the dog back was mentioned".


 No, I get the point. I completely understand what was going on. The long line is a great idea. In my first post I said that I won't do it unless it's a dog I know really well, even if it's for a recall. Anytime you take the leash of a dog that's not yours, you run the risk of being bit. I won't even ask people to do this for me. I did it once and the dog looked at the guy like "Who the $#@! are you?" and nailed the guy on the arm. I was green as grass at the time, and learned quickly that's a mistake on both sides. I'll go as far as saying that it doesn't have to be a "real" dog to do it. If the dog wants to get to the handler bad enough they may bite the hand that's holding them. My main point in my last post was simply, if you're around dogs that are trained to bite ling enough, you WILL get bit eventually, somehow and for a multitude different reasons. If you're willing to hold the leash of the dog that is not yours, you shouldn't be pissed off if you get tagged, regardless of why you're doing it.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

It sure does suck to get bitten, however I agree with the above, working dogs you will most likely get bit.

I believe the ideal situation is to start this type of training with pups, however that's not always possible.

As a preventive measure, maybe modifing the method could provide some measure of protection. I thought maybe holding the leash while behind a fence, or even a blind or some other way to put a barrier between you and the dog could prevent such bites.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> "we had a member who asked me to hold his dog for him for a recall, but when the guy was about 10 feet from me the dog turned and attacked me, biting my face & arm. I still have the semi circle of tooth mark scars in my forearm I received as a lovely parting gift."
> 
> I don't consider this an "attack"


Oh really Al? The dog caught my jaw with a canine and would have done severe damage to my face had I not been able to get my arm up in time to take the brunt of the force of the dog. In fact, there was muscle damage to my forearm as well. Luckily for me, after the dogs owner stood there for a couple seconds in shock while the dog was munching on me, he grabbed the leash and pulled the dog off me. 

This was not just getting "bit". I have been doing this since the early 80s so please believe me when I tell you I know the damn difference between a dog who nips or tests, a redirecting dog who bites, and a dog who attacks.

The lesson learned is never ever hold a strange dogs lead for someone who is not experienced enough in the first place to determine whether or not the adult dog he purchased was sound. This dog had a screw loose. Like Mike and others have said, holding the line should be done with dogs you know, never dogs you don't. Or like I said originally, carry a damn baseball bat.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I just love all the internet armchair quarterbacks who weren't even there, but are just sure they know exactly what happened. By the way, the dog wasn't even being amped up, the owner had only just started walking away, there wasn't even any tension on the line, there wasn't time yet. But go on and make assumptions about things you couldn't possibly know, it makes me giggle. This dog had a screw loose, he eventually got put down after he bit a few more people for no good reason, the last straw being a bystander at a trial. :roll:

This really is no big deal, the lesson learned is don't hold dogs you don't know. easy peasy. I have held the line for many dogs since, the difference is I either know the dog or trust the trainer. Normal dogs will struggle to get to their handler for the toy, that's the idea, to build the drive so that when you release the dog it flys to it's handler for the toy/ball/whatever.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I got bit by a friend's dog. I walked into her house, just like I always did, not even thinking that her new dog would have a problem with that. It was a mistake on both our parts - me for just walking in, her for not warning me that there was a new dog in the house. 

He jumped at me as I walked in, catching a piece of flesh... massive adrenalin rush for me. Everything happened fast. If he was seriously trying to hurt me, it could have been ugly. As it was, I think he just took a snap at me. When he hit the ground, I was ready to kick the shit out of him. I got one kick in. At the same time, my friend was up and on top of the situation getting him to back off. And me, too, because I was pumped and ready to keep putting the boots to him. 

That dog hated me after that. I saw him once when another handler was working him as a security dog. Handler couldn't understand why the 'but he loves everyone' dog he worked wanted to eat me. All I could say was 'get him on a leash and get him away from me.'


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

I got bit by Madonna's pit bull. :-({|= Do you think I should have sued?! :lol:


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> what I would do to the dog if a club member's dog turned on me.


1. You hang
2. You punt

Now you have a few seconds to look for a pvc pipe.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

David Frost said:


> My question would be; was this "semi circle" punctures or just marks in the skin. If they weren't punctures, the dog was just trying to get away. If the dog was really trying to bite and didn't puncture, that could be a problem.
> DFrost


They were punctures. The owner was not 10ft from the dog when this happened, he had not started teasing or calling the dog, he wasn't facing the dog because he was still walking to the point where the exercise was to begin. The dog was not struggling, the line was slack, he was calm one second and crazy the next. He just turned and jumped, no warning, no growl, no nothing, the switch flipped. For the person who said 

I don't really understand why someone had to start a whole thread about what happened. As someone said, when you do this shit, you are bound to get bit here or there. When I originally posted this I SAID the simple answer is don't do this exercise if you don't know the dog. That was my lesson learned.


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## Danny hill (Oct 22, 2010)

to be honest i have faced this my self whilst training a new dog for general purpose work just last week.. well driven and balanced dark sable gsd.. doing an apprehension exercise dog came in the building located me bark and hold, took a dirty bite at me next minute the dogs got my knee having a rag at it. it does hurt and ya think god sake why me ? .... but the way i see it when training at some point or another you have got to be prepared for the odd complication during training.. if others see it this way i aint sure but that how i see it ... i could be wrong .....


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Danny hill said:


> to be honest i have faced this my self whilst training a new dog for general purpose work just last week.. well driven and balanced dark sable gsd.. doing an apprehension exercise dog came in the building located me bark and hold, took a dirty bite at me next minute the dogs got my knee having a rag at it. it does hurt and ya think god sake why me ? .... but the way i see it when training at some point or another you have got to be prepared for the odd complication during training.. if others see it this way i aint sure but that how i see it ... i could be wrong .....


We deal with dogs that are bred with lotso drive and desire once in a wile one pops up over the top or with a screw loose or someone buys one that's... that way. 
As most of us know there will be unexpected holes and piercings


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## Lamar Blackmor (Aug 1, 2010)

a screw way loose o that dog that attack sususan. not normal forsure but the excuses people making for a dog they never seen are are interesting. like aprotection tained dog could never ever do sucj a thign becus they strong temperamented or something. loopy. dog bite me out the blue gonna get the ower a law suite for shoe


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## Brad Hardin (Dec 22, 2006)

I have been bit like 7 times and just about every time was due to handler error. The worst one was 9 stitches to the face with 3 broken teeth. I am a decoy so I just chalked it up. You know the old saying if you mess with the bull you will eventually get horned. Luckily for me the handler was nice enough to pay for the ER visit. If you are training high drive dogs to bite eventually somebody is going to have holes put in them. Don't hate the player hate the game lol


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Brad Hardin said:


> I have been bit like 7 times and just about every time was due to handler error. The worst one was 9 stitches to the face with 3 broken teeth. I am a decoy so I just chalked it up. You know the old saying if you mess with the bull you will eventually get horned. Luckily for me the handler was nice enough to pay for the ER visit. If you are training high drive dogs to bite eventually somebody is going to have holes put in them. Don't hate the player hate the game lol


7 times :lol: WTF is the matter with you training dogs to bite people and the handlers themselves cant hold there dogs well enough to keep you from being dog bit. If someone cant hold hold there dog properly for training there dog aint getting trained to bite.
I've seen prolly 3 accidents due to handler error, by the time the helpers and TD were done ripping the handlers a new ass hole there was blood coming out of there ears, it has never happened a second time by any handler and if it did there would be no chance for a third thats for sure damn sure.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

I think I know my own dogs pretty well, and I would never let anyone hold a lead of one if I thought they would or even could bite. Hell, Im worried about selling experienced people adult dogs if I know they wont take shit from strangers.
I would feel very badly if a dog I owned bite someone, especially a club mate, and hurt them. 
I have been bitten by a club mates 10 month old Mali male. I said I would hold it for her, and take it for a little walk while she did something else. So I was just standing there, dog alongside me, and he just chomps into my calf. No warning, no growling, no nothing. It brused up nice, but no big deal, no bad feelings. It's my fault for taking the lead of a slightly nervy Mali. Thats kinda rule no1.


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## Danny hill (Oct 22, 2010)

Brad Hardin said:


> I have been bit like 7 times and just about every time was due to handler error. The worst one was 9 stitches to the face with 3 broken teeth. I am a decoy so I just chalked it up. You know the old saying if you mess with the bull you will eventually get horned. Luckily for me the handler was nice enough to pay for the ER visit. If you are training high drive dogs to bite eventually somebody is going to have holes put in them. Don't hate the player hate the game lol


man if ya gettin chomped all the time due to lack of handler concentration/ errors . there big problems .... and these handler / dogs should personally review wht they want out of it specially if sport dog i would have thought .... but i dnt know much of sport world to be honest .


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

There are bites that are the dogs fault, blind, escort
and there are bites that are the decoy or handlers fault

this one sounds like the handler/decoys fault, you cant imho be mad at the dog for those

I have been bitten and it was my fault. I have seen other decoys bit a couple times, their fault
I have not yet seen a bite that was the dogs fault


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> I think I know my own dogs pretty well, and I would never let anyone hold a lead of one if I thought they would or even could bite.


Amen to that. 
Accidents can happen of course, but I must say 99% of the accidents I've witnessed was the handler getting bitten by his own dog.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Mike Lauer said:


> There are bites that are the dogs fault, blind, escort
> and there are bites that are the decoy or handlers fault
> 
> this one sounds like the handler/decoys fault, you cant imho be mad at the dog for those
> ...



I think sometimes a poor decoy can cause other good decoys to get bit. There is a guy in the club, fast as hell so we made him do most of the prey work. We didn't notice at first but almost every single time a dog came to bite, he would jerk the tug or sleeve away just slightly in anticipation of the bite. This translated to some of the dogs to adjust and when another helper would would do the same exercise they would get bit.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Lamar Blackmor said:


> a screw way loose o that dog that attack sususan. not normal forsure but the excuses people making for a dog they never seen are are interesting. like aprotection tained dog could never ever do sucj a thign becus they strong temperamented or something. loopy. dog bite me out the blue gonna get the ower a law suite for shoe


:-k run that by me again.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

never train with Lamar, got it

you play with fire you get burned


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Oh really Al? The dog caught my jaw with a canine and would have done severe damage to my face had I not been able to get my arm up in time to take the brunt of the force of the dog. In fact, there was muscle damage to my forearm as well. Luckily for me, after the dogs owner stood there for a couple seconds in shock while the dog was munching on me, he grabbed the leash and pulled the dog off me.
> 
> This was not just getting "bit". I have been doing this since the early 80s so please believe me when I tell you I know the damn difference between a dog who nips or tests, a redirecting dog who bites, and a dog who attacks.
> 
> The lesson learned is never ever hold a strange dogs lead for someone who is not experienced enough in the first place to determine whether or not the adult dog he purchased was sound. This dog had a screw loose. Like Mike and others have said, holding the line should be done with dogs you know, never dogs you don't. Or like I said originally, carry a damn baseball bat.


What was your face doing near the dog? Why didn't you let go of the leash? Training dogs since the 80s or 70s or 60s means nothing, I know a guy that's been training dogs for 40 yrs and he's borderline retarded when it comes to dogs. YOU and the owner should have been reading the dog. If it was a real attack putting your arm up wouldn't do much, it would leave your torso, groin and legs exposed to bites, the attacking dog would know this.


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Lamar Blackmor said:


> a screw way loose o that dog that attack sususan. not normal forsure but the excuses people making for a dog they never seen are are interesting. like aprotection tained dog could never ever do sucj a thign becus they strong temperamented or something. loopy. dog bite me out the blue gonna get the ower a law suite for shoe


Not to sound like a real B!t©h, but aren't there enough sue-happy people out there to not have to worry about your fellow club-members suing you? I mean, any work with any animal is not without some risk, from your own dog, or someone elses. Anyone who is that eager to sue probably should take up knitting. I am EXPECTING to get bit at some point, so no need getting all pissed off when it does happen.

Just my 2 cents worth. :-o


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Al Curbow said:


> What was your face doing near the dog? Why didn't you let go of the leash? Training dogs since the 80s or 70s or 60s means nothing, I know a guy that's been training dogs for 40 yrs and he's borderline retarded when it comes to dogs. YOU and the owner should have been reading the dog. If it was a real attack putting your arm up wouldn't do much, it would leave your torso, groin and legs exposed to bites, the attacking dog would know this.


 
Maybe she was telling the dog YOU MUST do this lol You can't communicate to all dogs YOU MUST! That's my take on it. There's more to dog communication than absolute dominance.

disclaimer; currently drunk


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> What was your face doing near the dog? Why didn't you let go of the leash? Training dogs since the 80s or 70s or 60s means nothing, I know a guy that's been training dogs for 40 yrs and he's borderline retarded when it comes to dogs. YOU and the owner should have been reading the dog. If it was a real attack putting your arm up wouldn't do much, it would leave your torso, groin and legs exposed to bites, the attacking dog would know this.


1. My face wasn't near the dog's face Al, I was standing, the dog leaped up on me.
2. What do you think releasing the leash would have done? It played no part in this since there was NO TENSION on the leash it was SLACK, the dog was not trying to get away from me, Al. The owner had not reached the point of teasing or calling the dog, how many times do I have to repeat this for you to get it?
3. It was a real attack Al, with no provocation and no warning. The thing is you weren't there, but keep on talking out of your ass, you only make yourself sound even more stupid and clueless with each statement.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Lamar Blackmor said:


> a screw way loose o that dog that attack sususan. not normal forsure but the excuses people making for a dog they never seen are are interesting. like aprotection tained dog could never ever do sucj a thign becus they strong temperamented or something. loopy. dog bite me out the blue gonna get the ower a law suite for shoe


I got your name" mang" don't need your kind around here there's plenty of golden banana peels for you to be grabbing at away from dog sports. 
We deal with stupid shit our self some super glue in the holes or if need be a trip to the doc but you and your ****ing lawyers can stay the **** out of our world sue happy POS


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

By the way, it never entered my mind to sue anyone over this, nor would I.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Maybe she was telling the dog YOU MUST do this lol You can't communicate to all dogs YOU MUST! That's my take on it. There's more to dog communication than absolute dominance.
> 
> disclaimer; currently drunk


Excuse me? You must be pretty goddamn drunk maggie.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> disclaimer; currently drunk


Innus and gunN ??


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

=d>


gerry grimwood said:


> innus and gunn ??


=d>


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I stand corrected and my ass apologizes for talking. Excellent training and the dog was terrible and had something wrong with it, overall a good job was done by all and was mistake free. Bad dog.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> I stand corrected and my ass apologizes for talking. Excellent training and the dog was terrible and had something wrong with it, overall a good job was done by all and was mistake free. Bad dog.


Oh no, Al Let me apologize. I should have known the dog was going to leap on my face seconds after the owner handed me the lead while I was simply standing there, so how stupid of me to be wearing my face that day, or maybe if I let go of the slack lead the dog would have magically stopped. Oh and how stupid of that bystander to be standing there when the dog attacked him too, right? I guess Al belongs to the "there are no bad dogs" club. 

Are you drinking with Maggie today?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Excuse me? You must be pretty goddamn drunk maggie.


I was trying to be polite ,in a drunk kind of way.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

It doesn't seem like this should be so difficult to understand. I will try one more time:

This was being done to practice the recall, but we hadn't even got to the point of the actual exercise.

MAN ASKS IF I WILL HOLD THE LEAD FOR RECALL EXERCIZE, THEN HANDS LEASH OF HIS NEW DOG TO ME (I AM STANDING). MAN STARTS TO WALK DOWN THE FIELD. DOG IS NOT STRUGGLING. DOG IS NOT AT END OF LEASH. THERE IS SLACK IN THE LINE. DOG IS NOT BEING TEASED, THERE IS NO PROVOCATION, THIS IS A CALM SITUATION. WHEN MAN IS APPROX 10 FEET FROM ME, DOG TURNS AND ATTACKS (NO GROWLING, NO WARNING). I START YELLING FOR THE GUY TO GET HIS DOG OFF ME, HE IS SHOCKED, HESITATES FOR SOME SECONDS, THEN GRABS THE LEASH AND PULLS THE DOG OFF ME. 

I am so sorry I relayed this event at all. As I said when I initially relayed the event, the moral of the story is don't do this recall exercise with strange dogs.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Susan, sometime it is better to say your piece and leave it be. I know I've been ripped to damn near shreds when folks haven't had a clue to the actual reality of the situation yet respond in a manner like not only where they present, but qualified to state the faults of your being.

Just pretend EVeryone who has responded here was drunk and not just me .


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Susan, sometime it is better to say your piece and leave it be. I know I've been ripped to damn near shreds when folks haven't had a clue to the actual reality of the situation yet respond in a manner like not only where they present, but qualified to state the faults of your being.
> 
> Just pretend EVeryone who has responded here was drunk and not just me .


You're right - cheers! I'm going to go make myself a cocktail. What are you drinking?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> You're right - cheers! I'm going to go have one myself. What are you drinking?


Vin Rouge..Chilean, blackberry finish, round full flavour...can't get enough of.

The clocks went back tonight, started early :lol:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Vin Rouge..Chilean, blackberry finish, round full flavour...can't get enough of.
> 
> The clocks went back tonight, started early :lol:


Nice! I just opened a bottle of Merlot, California. Nothing fancy, but very drinkable. Tonight's the night we turn back the clocks? I didn't realize. I raise my glass to you, Maggie!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Nice! I just opened a bottle of Merlot, California. Nothing fancy, but very drinkable. Tonight's the night we turn back the clocks? I didn't realize. I raise my glass to you, Maggie!


Cheers!


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## Brad Hardin (Dec 22, 2006)

7 times WTF is the matter with you training dogs to bite people and the handlers themselves cant hold there dogs well enough to keep you from being dog bit. If someone cant hold hold there dog properly for training there dog aint getting trained to bite.
I've seen prolly 3 accidents due to handler error, by the time the helpers and TD were done ripping the handlers a new ass hole there was blood coming out of there ears, it has never happened a second time by any handler and if it did there would be no chance for a third thats for sure damn sure.


3 times came from trying to show upper body dogs the legs, Handler gave slack to dog that is normally clean and dog got dirty believe you me I did ripp the handler a new asshole pretty well. 1 Time was at a seminar when we were giving a dog bites on a leg sleeve and the dog came over the top of the leg sleeve, again handler gave slack instead of just letting me go to the dog, 1 was my fault I was still new and was working targeting on my own dog, and another time was after doing a DOH the dog got pissed and nailed me in the face during the guard.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> Vin Rouge..Chilean, blackberry finish, round full flavour...can't get enough of.
> 
> The clocks went back tonight, started early :lol:


Must be good wine, the clocks don't change till next week-end :lol:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Brad Hardin said:


> 7 times WTF is the matter with you training dogs to bite people and the handlers themselves cant hold there dogs well enough to keep you from being dog bit. If someone cant hold hold there dog properly for training there dog aint getting trained to bite.
> I've seen prolly 3 accidents due to handler error, by the time the helpers and TD were done ripping the handlers a new ass hole there was blood coming out of there ears, it has never happened a second time by any handler and if it did there would be no chance for a third thats for sure damn sure.
> 
> 
> 3 times came from trying to show upper body dogs the legs, Handler gave slack to dog that is normally clean and dog got dirty believe you me I did ripp the handler a new asshole pretty well. 1 Time was at a seminar when we were giving a dog bites on a leg sleeve and the dog came over the top of the leg sleeve, again handler gave slack instead of just letting me go to the dog, 1 was my fault I was still new and was working targeting on my own dog, and another time was after doing a DOH the dog got pissed and nailed me in the face during the guard.


 
Could this be what happens when clubs encourage novice dog handlers to train in bite work?

I guess this is one of the very reasons I dislike the whole idea of inexperienced dog people attempting to train in dog sports which includes bite work.

I dislike the whole idea of a newbie to dogs being accepted into a bite sport club. That's not to say that's what has happened here, but | believe folks should learn to walk before they can run. If you don't know how to train control, you have no place at a sport club until you do.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Must be good wine, the clocks don't change till next week-end :lol:


We're ahead of you guys, in more ways than one :wink:


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## Brad Hardin (Dec 22, 2006)

Everybody has to start somewhere, if you didn't allow anybody to train with you that hadn't already done bite work before and if all people did this then you wouldn't have ANYBODY training bite work, I now insist on using back ties. I was only really hurt 2 of the times (1 being the dirty guard the other being my own fault) the others while they did hurt like hell didn't require stitches.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Brad,

How many of those seven accidental bites were since you left Colorado? We never let our decoys get live bitten ;-)


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Brad Hardin said:


> Everybody has to start somewhere, if you didn't allow anybody to train with you that hadn't already done bite work before and if all people did this then you wouldn't have ANYBODY training bite work, I now insist on using back ties. I was only really hurt 2 of the times (1 being the dirty guard the other being my own fault) the others while they did hurt like hell didn't require stitches.


That sounds like the call of a club DEsperate for members! any jack will do just come along!


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> Could this be what happens when clubs encourage novice dog handlers to train in bite work?
> 
> I guess this is one of the very reasons I dislike the whole idea of inexperienced dog people attempting to train in dog sports which includes bite work.
> 
> I dislike the whole idea of a newbie to dogs being accepted into a bite sport club. That's not to say that's what has happened here, but | believe folks should learn to walk before they can run. If you don't know how to train control, you have no place at a sport club until you do.


Don't club members help each other out and show newbies the ropes? I could understand if a person was a complete idiot and was wasting everyones time, but beginers need to start somewhere. I'm really glad the people the taught me didn't have the same attitude.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Adam Rawlings said:


> Don't club members help each other out and show newbies the ropes? I could understand if a person was a complete idiot and was wasting everyones time, but beginers need to start somewhere. I'm really glad the people the taught me didn't have the same attitude.


I completely disagree.

A bite sport club is not the place for a dog newbie. A dog newbie needs to learn a little about dogs and control BEfore bite training in ANy form. That's just my opinion, because bite work in my view is an advanced discipline and requires understanding of dogs and dog drives and quirks, and nuances and dog language. That takes time and previous experience which can be evaluated before admitting to a club easily enough and is the responsible thing to do in my view.,


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Now that i'm drunk it makes sense.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)




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## shawn murace (Feb 20, 2007)

I learned bitework on Sch3 dogs but didn't do long bites for a while. Thats how I became the high priest of dog catching. So how bout those drunk halloween pics, ladies?


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## Brad Hardin (Dec 22, 2006)

Thomas 2 of the times happened in Colorado 1 was my own fault when I was working my own dog and he split my eye brow, the other at a Pitone seminar where the lady gave her Bouv, slack and he nailed me above the leg sleeve I was pissed but quickly returned to finish working the dog with someone else handling the line.
I do have a small club here in Oklahoma (5 members) we like our club small the other times were by experienced dog people, at semionars or training weekends, that simply thought I was going to do something else and it caused me to get bit in the stomach again now I refuse to work them unless on a back tie or I know that the dog and handler and myself are on the same page.


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