# Logan Haus/Mango



## Wayne Conrad (Jun 8, 2009)

Just wanted to take a minute to thank Mike Suttle from Logan Haus for his donation of Mango to my departments detection program. A couple of months ago I reached out on the forum asking for leads on suitable dogs. Mike contacted me advising he had a young DS named Mango that customs did not want because of a few crooked teeth. (Go figure). In any case, we had Mango shipped out and he just completed his first week of training. Mango took to the training like a rocket. The type of dog you kill for !! All this dog needs a handler for is to open the door so he can get in the room to go to work. Makes my job a breeze. You are always skeptical when having to pick up a dog without the ability to actually test them personally. But Mike's reputation was well documentated and worth taking a shot at. Again, Thanks to Mike for reaching out and assissting us in this project. Hopefully, if and when we can start buying dogs, Logan Haus will be on my short list of people I am going to be going to !!

Wayne Conrad, Sergeant
Statewide Canine Coordinator
R.A McGee Correctional Training Center
Galt, CA


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## Brandon Keppler (Aug 10, 2010)

Congratulations, On The New Addition From Logan Haus Kennels, I've Been Trying to get a Malinois for A Small Illinois Police Dept. They Have never in history had a K9 Unit Installed, But No Sucess, these dam American Kennels think they are dealing with some Major Police Dept. And They are in fact NOT, its just a small Illinois Police Dept. Just One of the Police Dept. That Are Very Small But Yet Also Need A Good K9 Program Started No Different Than a big city police dept.

But Congrats On The New Additon Sir, wish you best always, Sure Wish Someone Would Help A Small Illinois Police Dept. Out and Donate Them A Dam Good Dual Purpose Malinois!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

You just can't confide in these American Police Dog Kennels Anymore, Your Best Bet is to search overseas and cut the middle man out!!

Wishing you the best!!!!!!!!!


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Big congrats Wayne! Mike's a good guy, never heard a bad thing about him. I'm glad Mango worked out so well. If you ever get any videos of him, I'd love to see him in action.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words Wayne. I am glad you are happy with him. He is a nice dog and he deserves to be working. I may have another one that I will be washing out soon, if I do I will let you know.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Brandon Keppler said:


> Congratulations, On The New Addition From Logan Haus Kennels, I've Been Trying to get a Malinois for A Small Illinois Police Dept. They Have never in history had a K9 Unit Installed, But No Sucess, these dam American Kennels think they are dealing with some Major Police Dept. And They are in fact NOT, its just a small Illinois Police Dept. Just One of the Police Dept. That Are Very Small But Yet Also Need A Good K9 Program Started No Different Than a big city police dept.
> 
> But Congrats On The New Additon Sir, wish you best always, Sure Wish Someone Would Help A Small Illinois Police Dept. Out and Donate Them A Dam Good Dual Purpose Malinois!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


So you are bagging on US vendors again? seems like an American vendor helped Wayne and his department out. You think an overseas breeder or vendor is going to DONATE a good dual purpose dog, any faster than an american company? 

In your opinion what is a GOOD dual purpose dog worth? 
What is the budget for the purchase of the dog? 

I know a few people that probably have suitable dogs, but they are not FREE...
importing good dogs costs money..breeding, raising, and training good dogs costs money..

I doubt your overt disdain for american vendors is going to help you out in your search...your first post on the subject basically insulted them, as this one did...not a good way to grease wheels in my opinion...

what do you mean confide? 
Why not confide the budget for the dog...instead of insulting people that may be able to help you out....


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Brandon Keppler said:


> Congratulations, On The New Addition From Logan Haus Kennels, I've Been Trying to get a Malinois for A Small Illinois Police Dept. They Have never in history had a K9 Unit Installed, But No Sucess, these dam American Kennels think they are dealing with some Major Police Dept. And They are in fact NOT, its just a small Illinois Police Dept. Just One of the Police Dept. That Are Very Small But Yet Also Need A Good K9 Program Started No Different Than a big city police dept.
> 
> But Congrats On The New Additon Sir, wish you best always, Sure Wish Someone Would Help A Small Illinois Police Dept. Out and Donate Them A Dam Good Dual Purpose Malinois!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Brandon, What is it that you are looking for in the dog exactly. I recieved an e mail form you asking for a dog for PSA and KNPV work, and also to be used for breeding. You described the type of dog that the Special Forces are looking for, and you wanted it to be registered, titled, and a male that you could breed with. Just out of curiosity, what is your price range that you wanted to pay for such a dog?
I have only seen a handfull of males that I would consider breeding quality, and those dogs usually cost me a shit load of money from Holland. 
What do you consider a fair price, and what do you really want to do with the dog?


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Wayne Conrad said:


> Mango took to the training like a rocket. The type of dog you kill for !! All this dog needs a handler for is to open the door so he can get in the room to go to work. Makes my job a breeze.


Congrats with your dog!


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Well i think thats kinda brilliant...and congratulations are indeed in order...will you be posting a picture or pictures of the dog anytime ? am kinda curious about the dog now 

Again congrats with Mango and i hope you get to work and enjoy him for a long time


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## Wayne Conrad (Jun 8, 2009)

I have Fox doing a piece on the training and I am planning on using Mango. Not sure when they are going to Air it but it is going to be nationwide from what I understand. Will let you know when I find out. Will also take some video of one of the training sessions.


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## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

Congratulations Wayne, on your new K9. Mike is a great source for dogs.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> I have only seen a handfull of males that I would consider breeding quality, and those dogs usually cost me a shit load of money from Holland. /QUOTE]
> So are you saying... These breeding quality males you've seen are only in Holland. Surely you must have produced a breed worthy male out of all the litters you have had.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Wayne Conrad said:


> I have Fox doing a piece on the training and I am planning on using Mango. Not sure when they are going to Air it but it is going to be nationwide from what I understand. Will let you know when I find out. Will also take some video of one of the training sessions.


do let us know when it will air...would be cool to watch...if not nationwide make sure you get it on youtube or something...LOL


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

todd pavlus said:


> mike suttle said:
> 
> 
> > I have only seen a handfull of males that I would consider breeding quality, and those dogs usually cost me a shit load of money from Holland. /QUOTE]
> ...


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> todd pavlus said:
> 
> 
> > Till now I have not produced what I would consider a breeding quality male. I have seen about 10 of these types of males in the last several years, but have not yet been able to produce one yet. I am hopeful that it will happen as I have seen one son from Arko, and one from Carlos that I have imported who were what I would consider breeding quality. Keep in mind that everyone has a different opinion of what is a breeding quality animal. Maybe I am just too picky.
> ...


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> mike suttle said:
> 
> 
> > VERY sad more ant picky or make better effort, You can find and use someone else's stud, its the bitches you keep that matter why pigeon hole your self. there's a saying goes something like this "beware of kennels that build there name around there stud dogs"
> ...


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

what the hell is going on with the quote I posted there mixed up I dident quote Todd Pavlus


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> todd pavlus said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind that everyone has a different opinion of what is a breeding quality animal.* Maybe I am just too picky*.
> ...


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## Greg Whelehan (Dec 1, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> mike suttle said:
> 
> 
> > VERY sad more ant picky or make better effort, You can find and use someone else's stud, its the bitches you keep that matter why pigeon hole your self. there's a saying goes something like this *"beware of kennels that build there name around there stud dogs"*
> ...


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## shawn murace (Feb 20, 2007)

Greg Whelehan said:


> Mike Scheiber said:
> 
> 
> > The above quote is so true.... kennels like Ot Vitosha malinois made its name from Ivan, and the few studs he competed with. That's what sells his pups. Ivan can sell a pup for $2500 or as advertised on his web page trained dogs for $30,000.
> ...


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

lets face it...just coze a dog does good on the field its no assurance it will do so in real life ! i see it here so often...dogs that get a 430 or 435 on the field and that are praised to death by their owners and clubmates only to run away screaming when someone puts an actual moment of presure on it...a training dog is something completly different from a good dog...im going to be honest here and say YES i want the 440 for my dog...the higher the better...if you are going to do something then go for all of it, but its not as important as the fact that when in need you can presure it and it will do its job without running across the field to go sit in the car thinking " well fk me that was NO fun" id rather have a 400 dog and have it do its job then a 440 thats doubtfull when the moment comes that it has to do its work...

i still say most (not all) 440 dogs are competition dogs and not a dual purpose one but thats my personal opinion...


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> Till now I have not produced what I would consider a breeding quality male. I have seen about 10 of these types of males in the last several years, but have not yet been able to produce one yet. I am hopeful that it will happen as I have seen one son from Arko, and one from Carlos that I have imported who were what I would consider breeding quality. Keep in mind that everyone has a different opinion of what is a breeding quality animal. Maybe I am just too picky.


I know you sell alot more females to the general public than males..I've read people are planning to breed them...what is your opinion on the females you have produced.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I know you sell alot more females to the general public than males..I've read people are planning to breed them...what is your opinion on the females you have produced.


I have produced a few females that I really like alot, some of which I have already bred with, and others who will be bred very soon.
I have an Arko X Djenna daughter from the first combination that will be bred to Carlos this week.
I have produced a lot of dogs from our program here over the last 10 years. While I have been happy with the way monst of them work, I have only seen a few females that I would breed with, and no males as of yet. But I think I am getting closer every year.


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## Chip Blasiole (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi Mike,
Would you care to elaborate on why you think it has been difficult for you to obtain any breeding quality males from your breeding program. Clearly, setting very high standards is a factor. But I'm wondering if you think a lack of genetic diversity is a factor, compared to if you lived in Holland and had a much more diverse set of genetics to choose from. There is a guy named Bruce Brisson, who is very knowledgable about genetics/working traits in the GSD, and he uses certain theories borrowed from horse breeders, where I believe a large focus is on trying to back load pedigrees with not just strong dogs who are producers, but strong dogs who are producers of producers. I think the idea is to backload the pedigree with genetics that are dominant for the desired traits. He also talks about how dogs going back many generations can have a significant impact on what you are producing (even though statistically they have little genetic impact) if you know what genetics the dogs way back in the pedigree are producing. There are probably others on the board more familiar with Brisson's ideas than me, as he gets very complicated to follow and you really need to study his ideas. I'm just wondering if you think the lack of potential producers you have bred is pretty much the norm due to setting high standards, and/or could there be knowledge about genetics you are missing out on due to not having total access to information as you might if you lived in Holland.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Hi Mike,
> Would you care to elaborate on why you think it has been difficult for you to obtain any breeding quality males from your breeding program. * Clearly, setting very high standards is a factor*. But I'm wondering if you think a lack of genetic diversity is a factor, compared to if you lived in Holland and had a much more diverse set of genetics to choose from. There is a guy named Bruce Brisson, who is very knowledgable about genetics/working traits in the GSD, and he uses certain theories borrowed from horse breeders, where I believe a large focus is on trying to back load pedigrees with not just strong dogs who are producers, but strong dogs who are producers of producers. I think the idea is to backload the pedigree with genetics that are dominant for the desired traits. He also talks about how dogs going back many generations can have a significant impact on what you are producing (even though statistically they have little genetic impact) if you know what genetics the dogs way back in the pedigree are producing. There are probably others on the board more familiar with Brisson's ideas than me, as he gets very complicated to follow and you really need to study his ideas. I'm just wondering if you think the lack of potential producers you have bred is pretty much the norm due to setting high standards, and/or could there be knowledge about genetics you are missing out on due to not having total access to information as you might if you lived in Holland.


I think this is the main factor.
Probably Mike's lines already produced good males, that many people would consider stud dogs, but as his standards are higher, he doesn't.

I have 2 dogs I'm working right now and I'm "washing out" (is this the correct word?) one of them. 
If I say that then you might think he's not a good dog, but I know for many people he'd be "the" perfect dog. Standards differ...


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Hi Mike,
> Would you care to elaborate on why you think it has been difficult for you to obtain any breeding quality males from your breeding program. Clearly, setting very high standards is a factor. But I'm wondering if you think a lack of genetic diversity is a factor, compared to if you lived in Holland and had a much more diverse set of genetics to choose from. There is a guy named Bruce Brisson, who is very knowledgable about genetics/working traits in the GSD, and he uses certain theories borrowed from horse breeders, where I believe a large focus is on trying to back load pedigrees with not just strong dogs who are producers, but strong dogs who are producers of producers. I think the idea is to backload the pedigree with genetics that are dominant for the desired traits. He also talks about how dogs going back many generations can have a significant impact on what you are producing (even though statistically they have little genetic impact) if you know what genetics the dogs way back in the pedigree are producing. There are probably others on the board more familiar with Brisson's ideas than me, as he gets very complicated to follow and you really need to study his ideas. I'm just wondering if you think the lack of potential producers you have bred is pretty much the norm due to setting high standards, and/or could there be knowledge about genetics you are missing out on due to not having total access to information as you might if you lived in Holland.


 I think everyone has a different opinion of what a breeding quality dog is. I import a lot of good dogs, but I have seen a very small number of dogs that I would consider to be stud dog quality.
I have seen one male Arko son (Kano), and one male Carlos son (Jari) that I would consider to be stud dog potential males, however neither of them have ever sired a litter. In fact I would honestly consider Kano and Jari to be better than Arko and Carlos in terms of work, drive, and intensity. The very interesting thing is that both of these dogs have the same mother in Holland. (yes, I have tried to buy her, no she is not for sale) But I do have two Arko daughters here from the same lines as the mother to Kano and Jari, and I am very hopeful that I will soon have the type of dog born here that I will be impressed enough by to breed with him.
To answer your question Chip, I think it is a matter of what I am looking for. Very few dogs have what I am looking for in a stud dog, no matter what country they are from. In over 10 years of importing hundreds of dogs I have had about 5 or 6 males come through my kennel that impressed me enough to breed with.
Now that I have the correct type of Arko daughters that I am looking, out of the lines on the bottom side that I have seen great dogs from (Kano and Jari) I am excited to see how the next generation of our dogs will turn out with Carlos X Arko daughters.
I just bred Sara to Carlos today, she is an Arko X Djenna daughter.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ever thought that all that yelling DOES have an effect ?? LOL


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ever thought that all that yelling DOES have an effect ?? LOL


Yeah, it damn sure does have an effect. it helps me produce better dogs here on average than I can import from Europe, but I still fall a few hundred short of what I need, so I have to go outside the USA.
I wish you would scream at few for me, and tickle their toes, and make them eat metal, then I could buy some from you too!


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

With a name like "Mango" and bucked teeth, its no wonder he was knocked out of their program :lol:
Im happy with what Arko produced for me Mike.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> With a name like "Mango" and bucked teeth, its no wonder he was knocked out of their program :lol:
> Im happy with what Arko produced for me Mike.


But you can see the intensity in Mango for piped shaped objects. J/J Mike


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> But you can see the intensity in Mango for piped shaped objects. J/J Mike
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks like Wayne got Mango's teeth and coat fixed since he has had him.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> It looks like Wayne got Mango's teeth and coat fixed since he has had him.


Yes, Wayne "got his hair did". That is a chupacabra!


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