# What do you guys see?



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Herding Instinct test for both of my dogs. For both dogs, this is the first time seeing sheep and attempting herding. I was surprised, I expect the Mali to do better and thought the Rottie would either kill a sheep or do nothing. 

I don't know shit about herding yet. I can see how it would be a good energy outlet for the dogs and talked to my training friend about it, he suggested we buy some sheep for his property. He said he was into herding about 15yrs ago and would be willing to do it again especially now that he has the space for them. 

What do you guys see?


Rottweiler - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6OhRygio3w

Malinois - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu7nhSK5fAs

I didn't like that the Mali got spooked. I haven't seen that in him before. I don't like the avoidance behavior either but the trainer said that's very typical of dogs who are new to the ring.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> Herding Instinct test for both of my dogs. For both dogs, this is the first time seeing sheep and attempting herding. I was surprised, I expect the Mali to do better and thought the Rottie would either kill a sheep or do nothing.
> 
> I don't know shit about herding yet. I can see how it would be a good energy outlet for the dogs and talked to my training friend about it, he suggested we buy some sheep for his property. He said he was into herding about 15yrs ago and would be willing to do it again especially now that he has the space for them.
> 
> ...


I see a good looking girl that is not afraid of a barking rott, with a stick in her hand.  

Did the Rottie go first? If so I looks like he made it a little easier for the Mali, he seemed to pick on the brown one alot . 

The Rottie looks like he wants to own those sheep, didn't get the impression from the mali.

I don;t know shit about herding, but they both looked good to me, looks like fun. I like the rott better


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> I didn't like that the Mali got spooked. I haven't seen that in him before.


That's what 1000's of Mali owners said last weekend.. You're not alone...:twisted:

that being said, how many times has the mali seen a bunch of sheep?
lol


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

yeah the rottie went first, then she did a border collie while I put up the rott and fetched the Mal. 

I expected the Mal to be more into it and expected the rott wouldn't be. The trainer said she was impressed with the Rottie and mentioned that most first time dogs don't do it as well as the rott. She thought he was exceptional for his first time. She could tell that I was disappointed with the Mali's performance and then told me not to worry at all and that her working collie was totally uninterested for the first five times and then went on to several herding nationals. She said both dogs can easily do and the Mal has a lot of presence for a dog that wasn't confident and confused. She thinks he will really blossom after a few sessions.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> That's what 1000's of Mali owners said last weekend.. You're not alone...:twisted:
> 
> that being said, how many times has the mali seen a bunch of sheep?
> lol



That was his first time seeing sheep.


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## Keagen Grace (Jun 5, 2010)

Looked like a lot of fun! I like the Rottie, too. 

Don't know anything about herding, but Rotties are usually used for cattle or droving, no?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Keagen Grace said:


> Looked like a lot of fun! I like the Rottie, too.
> 
> Don't know anything about herding, but Rotties are usually used for cattle or droving, no?


That was their original purpose, that and pulling milk carts to town and then carrying money back for the farmer.

I mostly use my Rott for a foot rest.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I did a herding test with one Rottie I had, she did very well also...I only took her because she herded people really well, dragged me around by my ankle more than once... I saw a few rott's there..they did well..

Both looked good to me...have fun with it


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey Chris, at the Michael Ellis seminar I went to someone brought in a fresh sheepskin, put it on a plastic deer, and it freaked a lot of the dogs out, and this was not even something that was alive. They just did not know what to make of it. The rest of the dogs were just very interested in the smells and stuff. Overall it spooked a lot of them at first, most of them.

But I would not personally worry about your Mali being spooked at first. His tail was up and wagging after a couple of minutes and he showed interest in the sheep. I mean, it's a new experience for him presumably with some new animals he's never seen. Of course, I know less about herding than you do so who knows how they'll turn out, but I would not be disappointed in it particularly since he started out kind of tentative and unsure and then she got him sniffing and chasing them and engaging in the activity and seemed to do pretty well. By the end he seemed pretty proud of himself too; look at him reacting to her praise ~7:25, then again at the end. He seemed to come away very positively and proud of himself.

The Rottie sure seemed to get into it though! That was cool to see. Nice looking dog too! But yeah, he seemed to enjoy it quite a bit and had some gusto about it.

Again, I am not really qualified to judge this stuff, but it looked like they did fine, the Malinois got over any tentativeness he may have had and ended up seeming to be pretty happy with himself, and both seemed to do the job fine. Those were kind of fun videos, thanks for sharing them!

-Cheers


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## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

I'll say it again....Chris...your Rott is a kick ass dog. I was expecting he would have taken to it as well as he did.

As far as the animal skin thing David was talking about. The same thing happened to Kaleb my pup. One of the guys in our club brought a cow hide on a rope he used for tug w/ his Mali pup he got from Waleed. My pup didn't know what to do with it and wanted to do the avoidance thing and run from it. Of course now he would go after it.


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## Rachel Schumacher (Oct 11, 2006)

Unfortunately I couldn't finish watching the vid with your Rottie (buffered and stalled the whole time). Till the mid of the vid first I saw a Rot not interestedin sheep at all and afterwards a Rot chasing sheep. Sorry I don't get it why is the trainer letting the dog chasing sheep? If she is not able to stop him verbally or with her body language - you can throw in a stick too if you want - then the dog should be on a leash. You want herding lessons not chasing sheep lessons, right? I liked the Mal a lot more. He took his time to figure out what to do but then he caught on. He worked calm for his first lesson. He had numerous possibilities to grip sheep but didn't bother. He didn't bark either. Again she let him chase sheep and it seems to me she is not able to stop both dogs from chasing. Why is she letting the dogs to circle around her and the sheep so closely. I am a beginner and when that kind of tight circling happens it's a handler mistake 
Well I am lucky with a soft dog who has a natural instict. The fist time she saw sheep she put her body into "Border Collie" gear. She managed to circle the gate and put all the sheep in one corner. I believe it's Geoff who said some Mals just are really talented and I am blessed with one those. 
I am curious what the more experienced "shepherds" say but IMO change the trainer and work with your Mal. 
In either case keep us posted.


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

It looks like both dogs show real promise.

Next time I would not use the slip collars. I only use a flat buckle ...or later, no collar at all.

I didn't get all of the circling. The instinct test I have helped with , circling more than once or twice is discouraged. The person typically moves around more and does not allow swirling. But ...since it was just an instinct test...maybe that was not important at this stage in the game.

Sometimes different stock can turn a dog on. With my DD's cattle dog, we had to use young lambs to get her really turned on. 

I think you will have a lot of fun with both of your dogs.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Kellie Wolverton said:


> Next time I would not use the slip collars. I only use a flat buckle ...or later, no collar at all.


Thank you.

I can't tell the difference between good training and bad training. I was letting her handle everything and just watched to make sure the dogs didn't try to kill the sheep or bite her.

What's wrong with a fur saver on a dead ring?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
I didn't like that the Mali got spooked

I saw like some momentary thing and then I about got sick watching him spin around trying to sniff the goats butt. I also only made it to 3:24, I was getting bored. Sorry.

Did he spook for real somewhere after that ?? I didn't see anything crazy, not sure what you were expecting.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> I didn't like that the Mali got spooked
> 
> I saw like some momentary thing and then I about got sick watching him spin around trying to sniff the goats butt. I also only made it to 3:24, I was getting bored. Sorry.
> ...



nope just the momentary thing in the beginning. I've never seen him get spooked before. I'm not worried but it was the first time and didn't expect it then. In my head, the Mal is 10x the dog the rott is and after I saw what the rottie did, I was expecting bigger and better from the Mal. That's the way it's always been with these knuckleheads.


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## Mia Dunn (Jun 16, 2010)

Hi Chris!

How fun to watch! what I saw was both dogs with good drive. Great bark & hold with your Rottweiler. I don't think the girl even knew she was in a bark & hold..lol. Yes there was to much chasing at first, but by the end both dogs did well at getting the idea of moving the sheep. Loved the intensity in your Rott, he could be developed, as well as the Mali, too. 

I like the calmness with which your Mal ended up the session. The confusion at first with the Mali was not a bad thing, just took a little time to get the idea behind the game. At the end the dog seemed to realize what to do. 

I would agree that the tester stayed in to tight of circles and should have moved the sheep a bit more. Notice the sheperd's movement actually controls both the sheep and the dogs. BOTH dogs did really well for a first time. 

I have seen some Instinct tests where dogs you would _expect_ to do well just sniffed the yard with no interest whatsoever in the sheep. Saw that with some Australian Sheperds and some GSD's. At the few tests I've seen, the best tests were either Rottweilers or Corgi's. Sheltie's did well, too.

You definitely need a more experience teacher to help move the stock. The one instinct test I have done myself was with an Australian Cattle Dog. He engaged only slightly sooner than your Mali did. I was allowed to be in the pen with the experienced tester and the first time the sheep ran toward me it freaked me out a little. 8-[ In my head I said "ok, the sheep are supposed to charge you". Also, if you're prone to motion sickness this ain't a good sport. Round and Round and Round.

Being a Rottie person, I gotta ask, what lines is your Rott out of?


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Rachel Schumacher said:


> Unfortunately I couldn't finish watching the vid with your Rottie (buffered and stalled the whole time). Till the mid of the vid first I saw a Rot not interestedin sheep at all and afterwards a Rot chasing sheep. Sorry I don't get it why is the trainer letting the dog chasing sheep? If she is not able to stop him verbally or with her body language - you can throw in a stick too if you want - then the dog should be on a leash. You want herding lessons not chasing sheep lessons, right? I liked the Mal a lot more. He took his time to figure out what to do but then he caught on. He worked calm for his first lesson. He had numerous possibilities to grip sheep but didn't bother. He didn't bark either. Again she let him chase sheep and it seems to me she is not able to stop both dogs from chasing. Why is she letting the dogs to circle around her and the sheep so closely. I am a beginner and when that kind of tight circling happens it's a handler mistake
> Well I am lucky with a soft dog who has a natural instict. The fist time she saw sheep she put her body into "Border Collie" gear. She managed to circle the gate and put all the sheep in one corner. I believe it's Geoff who said some Mals just are really talented and I am blessed with one those.
> I am curious what the more experienced "shepherds" say but IMO change the trainer and work with your Mal.
> In either case keep us posted.


When you say sheep chasing Rachel, Isnt he supposed to go after the strays to bring them back to the group? I think he looks like he passes the instinct part and you could work with him Chris. It looks like you could have a lot of fun with it.


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## Rachel Schumacher (Oct 11, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> When you say sheep chasing Rachel, Isnt he supposed to go after the strays to bring them back to the group? I think he looks like he passes the instinct part and you could work with him Chris. It looks like you could have a lot of fun with it.


yes the dog is supposed to bring back the strays. But there is a difference in bringing back and chasing sheep. The handler/trainer has to control the dog that he is not chasing. A dog's pressure is enough to bring back strays.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

so the consensus is do not work with that lady? Too inexperienced?

I liked that she was explaining a lot of stuff to me before I handed over the dog. I liked that she was talking to me about what she was seeing and thinking during the session.

I had enough fun today to want to devote a smidgen of time and money to the sport. How do I tell a good trainer from a bad trainer?


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## Mia Dunn (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't know, I think I would go back to her again a time or two. Although she did not handle that well, I did like how she explained things and that she was not afraid of the Rottie bark & hold. 

She may have a reasoning for how she handled the test, which may not be indicitive of how she handles dogs during classes. I would maybe go check out the other local places and watch their handling/teaching styles, as well. 

I always encourage prospective clients of mine to shop around, I would advise you to do so for herding, too. You may find a more experienced instructor, but they might have a crappy attitude. I'd take less experienced over a negative attitude. Half of all instruction is your chemistry with the instructor. 

Makes me want to take my Rottie's out for a test herd. Good way to exercise, that's for sure.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

I just typed out a friggin novel regarding your videos, but I'll leave it at this: Great looking Rottie, joke of a trainer. You almost bought yourself a crap load of mutton. You could have lots of fun with the rottie and an actual trainer. I was able to watch only a few minutes of the mal, and I don't see an issue working stock with the mal, IF you go to an actual trainer. Nice dogs, ridiculous instinct test and "trainer".


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

I've never seen real herding dog training. but looks like rott was having fun and mal was like, whoa, I am so outta here! at first. 

do you also do sch training w/ your dogs? can beating a dog off w/a stick or not letting them bark & hold/bite when they think they should negatively affect sch?

D


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> do you also do sch training w/ your dogs? can beating a dog off w/a stick or not letting them bark & hold/bite when they think they should negatively affect sch?
> 
> D


 
Doesn't have a negative affect on mine...just train to work quite on the stock.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm now dizzy and in need of a shower.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Hey Chris, I don't know if you saw the original videos of my dogs starting herding back in March, but Kaiser's reaction was pretty similar to Elsa, just not as much barking, but she got right down to it right away:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fjphVDJpyc

Xico's reaction was almost identical to Lily. She ignored the sheep for a good five minutes and filming it, my heart just sank, like "crap, this isn't going to work..." I think she thought of it like it was a test of obedience and she was asking permission. Now she's done really well with my husband. So no worries. :smile: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx9105WeW7w


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> so the consensus is do not work with that lady? Too inexperienced?
> 
> I liked that she was explaining a lot of stuff to me before I handed over the dog. I liked that she was talking to me about what she was seeing and thinking during the session.
> 
> I had enough fun today to want to devote a smidgen of time and money to the sport. How do I tell a good trainer from a bad trainer?


Chris,

I thought both dogs have herding potential, which is more then I can say for the "trainer". She spend more time "herding" the goats then the dogs did . I got dizzy watching her circle and circle. The idea is to let the dogs herd, not block them from the stock. She's brave, but I think she's going to get her azz bit
if she continues to wave yellow flags in front of high drive dogs.
If you substitute a leather rag, you'd have a perfect flirt pole 
Check out this Yahoo Group
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HGH-Herding-In-America
You might find a more experienced trainer on there
or search Ulf Kintzel on Youtube and you'll find some basic
HGH (German Shepherd style) training videos


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I really appreciate all of the responses. Thank you.

I'm going to do this some more and I think I will check out another trainer as well. Until yesterday, herding wasn't even a thought in my head so I'm really blind to the whole process. Like with all noob, it's easy to just follow somebody who has the appearance of know what they are doing. Actually I can't tell if she knows or not..

I have a recommendation to check out another trainer but he wants to charge me a fee just to come and watch. Is that typical? It doesn't sit well with me. What questions should I be asking of a trainer? How can I tell good from bad? What are typical fees for such a session? Today it was $15 ea dog.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

My trainer is the closest in the area (45 minutes away), is an AKC herding judge, and has 16 years of experience. Plus she's willing to try with the Mals in training for bite work, which is a big plus. I pay $25 for working one dog or $35 for two.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> .... I pay $25 for working one dog or $35 for two.


Is that about an hour?


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> I really appreciate all of the responses. Thank you.
> 
> I'm going to do this some more and I think I will check out another trainer as well. Until yesterday, herding wasn't even a thought in my head so I'm really blind to the whole process. Like with all noob, it's easy to just follow somebody who has the appearance of know what they are doing. Actually I can't tell if she knows or not..
> 
> I have a recommendation to check out another trainer but he wants to charge me a fee just to come and watch. Is that typical? It doesn't sit well with me. What questions should I be asking of a trainer? How can I tell good from bad? What are typical fees for such a session? Today it was $15 ea dog.


 
Depending on the dog, I usually leave the owner out of the pen at first, and have the owner work my dogs so they get used to the whole herding deal, like learning about the stock and how they all move, commands, ect. I generally charge $30 a session with no time limit, and do tons of free work too. As far as what to ask the trainer...ask them any question you have. Maybe either find out what they have accomplished in herding and/or watch their dogs work. Take the same approach you took when starting out in protection sports.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

And as far as the Mal, I personally would much rather see a Mal look like that in the video first time out. The majority of Mals I test, and even a lot that trial, have a tendancy to bowling ball their way through the herd and latch on to one. Usually, I can get the dog off fairly easy. One Mal had to get a hose turned on full blast and shoved in its nose to get it off...damn near drowned it. It still trains, but not at our ranch, and you'll never see it earn a title...oh well.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

I am not a pro , either , have HIC on all my dogs (9) but the dogue, who stood there and ate poop and sniffed the ground, 
the rottie did everything simliar to the rottie at the test I was at, ( i also didnt make it through his whole video though ) 
The mal looked good after he got going, I dont agree with the trainer that he was happy at the beggining , he was not, sniffing the ground is a bit of avoidence behaviour, ( which i saw from most of the dogs that were at the testing , about 30 dogs ) but it all came together , I think he will do good if you stick with it 

Not sure if you know , ( i think you do ) is that your mal has a pretty good limp going on in his front end ...


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

What is the attraction to herding ?? Like anyone here has a flock of sheep or something.

From what I see and this is just my opinion, it's an activity that is even less organized than most sports..usually in a small cage type of venue and really wide open to interpretation by anyone involved.

I could be wrong but, who herds animals anymore ?? Aside from Borat's relatives in the old country...


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> Not sure if you know , ( i think you do ) is that your mal has a pretty good limp going on in his front end ...



Yeah he's a little gimpy this week. He tweaked something on sunday morning and I haven't worked since. I didn't see him limp yesterday or this morning and he's not limping now....


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What is the attraction to herding ?? Like anyone here has a flock of sheep or something.
> 
> From what I see and this is just my opinion, it's an activity that is even less organized than most sports..usually in a small cage type of venue and really wide open to interpretation by anyone involved.
> 
> I could be wrong but, who herds animals anymore ?? Aside from Borat's relatives in the old country...



Gerry, 

I want the herding skills for my harem. I've graduated from sheep three years ago. :-o


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What is the attraction to herding ?? Like anyone here has a flock of sheep or something.
> 
> From what I see and this is just my opinion, it's an activity that is even less organized than most sports..usually in a small cage type of venue and really wide open to interpretation by anyone involved.
> 
> I could be wrong but, who herds animals anymore ?? Aside from Borat's relatives in the old country...


Hmmm...I think this is like your feedlot question. It's knowing where to look. Quite a few people around here have small hobby flocks actually. On my food animal ambulatory rotation, we went to quite a few places (some not even really farms) where people had them. You don't need much land at all for sheep and goats. They are useful for keeping fields mowed and goats are browsers and will help clear shrub. I think as the baby boomers age and they want to retire out into the country (often just 30 miles from a large urban area), they want livestock but may not want to get into cattle. I actually have been planning on getting livestock for years. I love small ruminant medicine and keeping sheep and goats as well as herding gives a lot of insight into those critters.

As far as my dogs and herding, I'd like help with moving stock for chores and for rotational grazing. So I don't need to trial or anything, but having a couple four legged helpers is nice.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What is the attraction to herding ?? Like anyone here has a flock of sheep or something.
> 
> From what I see and this is just my opinion, it's an activity that is even less organized than most sports..usually in a small cage type of venue and really wide open to interpretation by anyone involved.
> 
> I could be wrong but, who herds animals anymore ?? Aside from Borat's relatives in the old country...


:lol:
Or as useful as PPD's I'm not sure what might be required first of my dog round up and move some ducks or battle a maniac:lol:


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Hmmm...I think this is like your feedlot question. It's knowing where to look.


Maren, with all due respect..**** off.


Very few people these days need this shit in any capacity, hobby farms are for granolas.

As far as clearing shrub, sheep or goats usually ring the trees and then they die.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Ask a stupid question, Gerry... [-X 

You asked if people actually do have sheep and goats. I can assure you that they do, whether you like the reason or not. We saw about as many goats and sheep on food animal rotation as we did cattle. Alpacas and llamas too. If people want to work a dog in a venue with a challenging sport that they were originally designed for, why does it matter to you if they do it or not? Besides, lamb is even tastier than beef. =P~


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

Chris Michalek;200642
What's wrong with a fur saver on a dead ring?[/quote said:


> I worry about one of the links getting caught on a stray piece of wire in the pen.You just never know when things get fast and furious what can happen to fencing.
> 
> I have a herding collar...I _think_ she knows the difference between her obedience collar (slip) and that. But I just may be fooling myself
> 
> ...


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Besides, lamb is even tastier than beef. =P~


Bite your tounge woman =;

There is nothing better than triple A Angus tenderloin.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Last year for Easter, I grilled a rack of grass fed lamb and it was better than any prime rib I've ever had... =P~=P~=P~ You can keep your boiled caribou fetus. I'll stick with the lamb. There's also really nothing special about Angus beef. Quite a bit is just creative marketing. The majority of beef cattle are Angus or commercial Angus cross anyways. No biggie.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Last year for Easter, I grilled a rack of grass fed lamb and it was better than any prime rib I've ever had... =P~=P~=P~ You can keep your boiled caribou fetus. I'll stick with the lamb. There's also really nothing special about Angus beef. Quite a bit is just creative marketing. The majority of beef cattle are Angus or commercial Angus cross anyways. No biggie.


Lamb is overpriced for people that don't know any different, it's like Starbucks.

Not saying it's not good, because it is but it is more per pound for a skinny little rack than tenderloin from any type of beef cow on the planet....it's comfort food for tree huggers


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Hmmm...I think this is like your feedlot question. It's knowing where to look.


Just to clarify I hope....I know what feedlots are because my Father was a cattle buyer and a manager of one for Burns back in the day, it's abit different now.

Like anyone, your knowledge is based on experience..we all have some of that.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Last year for Easter, I grilled a rack of grass fed lamb and it was better than any prime rib I've ever had... =P~=P~=P~ You can keep your boiled caribou fetus. I'll stick with the lamb. There's also really nothing special about Angus beef. Quite a bit is just creative marketing. The majority of beef cattle are Angus or commercial Angus cross anyways. No biggie.


Don't forget the mint jelly. I get the kind with jalapenos.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

To get back on the OP's question I think both have potential. The first time for a lot of dogs in herding is often confusion. The just don't know what's expected from them and some just flat out don't want to make a mistake. Trooper defaults to fuss position if I pressure him to much. Thunder goes over the top with the same pressure. No way would he tolerate someone he doesn't know to use a staff on him or waive one in front of him. Do your dogs know that gal? That can make a huge difference for a first time dog although I understand the reason for first time owners to stay outside the fence.
Look for both dogs to power up the next time in the ring. The ones that have it will quickly develope an attraction to the stock. 
When I've watched Terrasita test new dogs she likes to take a break and bring the dog back in a second time in the same day. The 2nd exposure usually brings out a whole different dog and it builds from there.
That circling around usually has me ready to toss my cookies after about 3-4 turns.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I kept watching the video of the Rotti thinking that he was going to load up in drive and then bite the lady hitting him with the stick.........shit, it never happened. Maybe next time.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> I kept watching the video of the Rotti thinking that he was going to load up in drive and then bite the lady hitting him with the stick.........shit, it never happened. Maybe next time.


Kinda what I was thinkin, she sure as shyt wasn't scared...I want to marry that girl


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> I kept watching the video of the Rotti thinking that he was going to load up in drive and then bite the lady hitting him with the stick.........shit, it never happened. Maybe next time.


No sleeve, no game! It looked more like he was wanting the flag on the stick.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What is the attraction to herding ?? Like anyone here has a flock of sheep or something.
> 
> From what I see and this is just my opinion, it's an activity that is even less organized than most sports..usually in a small cage type of venue and really wide open to interpretation by anyone involved.
> 
> I could be wrong but, who herds animals anymore ?? Aside from Borat's relatives in the old country...


 
Haven't seen much then, have you? I own several hundred sheep of various breeds for various reasons, and every fire season the NDF askes us (along with other ranches) to drive our sheep several (usually more than 50) miles in open land for fire control. There are still real working ranches left, and we're one of them.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

And you work a GSD!!!!!

T




Brian McQuain said:


> Haven't seen much then, have you? I own several hundred sheep of various breeds for various reasons, and every fire season the NDF askes us (along with other ranches) to drive our sheep several (usually more than 50) miles in open land for fire control. There are still real working ranches left, and we're one of them.


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