# getting ready for the AKC HT



## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Two days in mid-July - I'm excited. 

We're doing quite well. Ulfie still has a tendency to want to go in and bust up the goats (mostly when I am to slow in the turns and get stuck or loose them) but we did much better today. He also seems to start being able to read the stock better because he rights himself much more easily, comes in with appropriate pressure and goes to block the draw without having been told to do so.

We also worked sheep today and that went very well. He automatically understood that he needed to keep a greater distance to them than to the goats and working along the sides of the pen and changing directions went without a hitch.

Of course, the heat here took some of the piss and vinegar out of him which was probably helpful. Anyway, I am really quite proud of my boy . He is only 19 months after all.

Wish us luck for July 16 and 17!


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Good luck!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Good luck! I hear you on the weather. Even my high drive SOB's attitude towards the stock is tempered in this heat, thank God because he thinks more when he's tired.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Good luck!! And most importantly, HAVE FUN!


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> Good luck!! And most importantly, HAVE FUN!


Oh, we do! The trainer thinks he is ready or I wouldn't enter him - but if we don't take both legs or even one, I can go up again in October so it's not the end of the world. Also I've seen SVs still fit for work at 13-14 and living to 18 so we are in no hurry .


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

All the judges are looking for is the ability of the dog to keep the sheep with you as you walk up and down the ring. Natural gathering usually covers that easily.
If your recall is solid and the dog has good instincts it will be a piece of cake.
HT judges are very helpful and will be in the ring with you.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Annika,

I'm sure you'll do fine. Just concentrate on moving the stock from point A to point B and keep it flowing without picking at your dog. I'll leave Bob to tell you how many cone to cone laps he did in his second run. He pattern trains REALLY well. The judge said he and Thunder were doing such a fine job of it, she didn't feel the need to stop them. Have fun with it and make sure you tell us all about it.

T


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Annika,
> 
> I'm sure you'll do fine. Just concentrate on moving the stock from point A to point B and keep it flowing without picking at your dog. I'll leave Bob to tell you how many cone to cone laps he did in his second run. He pattern trains REALLY well. The judge said he and Thunder were doing such a fine job of it, she didn't feel the need to stop them. Have fun with it and make sure you tell us all about it.
> 
> T


thanks, all, for the well wishes. 

I got to watch a bunch of other people doing the HT when I went to our nationals recently and I could see (it's always so easy to know what to do on the sidelines) that where people ran into trouble was where they moved too slowly and had too little confidence in their dogs so got stuck trying to control the dog (and then in turn the dog got frustrated and decided to go in and "speed up" things). 

The herding judge's comment (she's a corgi breeder btw - C. Taylor) was that our dogs (about 20) were much more talented than we gave them credit for (and than us)  and to get out of their way essentially. 

I'm sure I do that as well - when we've been doing that pattern recently, I get in trouble when I stop my dog up to the point that he gets too far away from the sheep (and I loose them to the draw) or sometimes that he gets frustrated with me and busts them up because of it. 

So I'm pretty sure that the only two things that could go wrong would either be my competition nerves or possibly if there was a lot more people and movement around the pen. It's always easier to work when nobody's watching...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Annika,
> 
> I'm sure you'll do fine. Just concentrate on moving the stock from point A to point B and keep it flowing without picking at your dog. I'll leave Bob to tell you how many cone to cone laps he did in his second run. He pattern trains REALLY well. The judge said he and Thunder were doing such a fine job of it, she didn't feel the need to stop them. Have fun with it and make sure you tell us all about it.
> 
> T



Hey! when I finally get something right I'm gonna take advantage of it.  :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, yesterday, your work with Thunder with those 15 sheep was definitely RIGHT. =D>

Annika, there is a lot of push in herding to obedience train the dog. Its not that you stopped the dog and he was too far away from them. You stopped him and he was no longer in control of the sheep and they ran off. Dogs HATE this. There is one place for a stop in HT and that is at the beginning for the controlled pause. At the end you recall the dog. Its easier to stop the dog then call him then calling him on the fly. You should have a plan for how you are going to stop the run and where is the best place to stop it at the end to set up the recall. Herding is about movement and control of livestock by the dog. Too many people think its handler directed placement. I'm partly responsible for Bob's pattern training  since before his trials we did a zillian cone to cone with different types of sheep and in different locations. To this day if Bob is heading for a fence, Thunder sets up the turn on his own. I also had a buddy of mine do a a run acting as a judge. If its four passes cone to cone, do eight for training. Do lots of stops and recalls and reward he dog and put him back to work. Your goal is to be able to do random walkabouts with the dog being able to maintain balance and control of the stock without a command or direction from you. Don't worry so much about establishing mechanical distance at this point. You're right it does breed frustration and this is something we probably work with over the course of the dog's working life because it is not insinctual to them.


Terrasita


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Good luck, please keep us posted on details. Just got my own sheep and now I dont have to drive long distances to continue my herding training. Having lots of fun amidst the frustration!


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Denise, 

I do envy you. How many and what breed did you get?

Terrasita


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Denise,
> 
> I do envy you. How many and what breed did you get?
> 
> Terrasita


Katahdin x St. Croix crosses. 6 ewes, 9 mos to a year old. Will get more eventually. A dear friend is a herding judge who has been working the sheep and my ducks with his BC (3 championships different stock clubs, on ducks, sheep and cattle, I must add - love to brag on he and his dog). What I am really liking is actually using my dogs in a practical sense to work the stock on my small farm. It is making me a much better stockman as well.


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Denise Gatlin said:


> Katahdin x St. Croix crosses. 6 ewes, 9 mos to a year old. Will get more eventually. A dear friend is a herding judge who has been working the sheep and my ducks with his BC (3 championships different stock clubs, on ducks, sheep and cattle, I must add - love to brag on he and his dog). What I am really liking is actually using my dogs in a practical sense to work the stock on my small farm. It is making me a much better stockman as well.


Denise, I am jealous too. I am in Illinois right now, doing something completely dog-unrelated but I find myself fantasizing about having some sheep - my husband is not amused... :razz:.

Terrasita, because the dog is young, perhaps, or because the breed want to go in close and nip at the heels, Ulfie started up coming in too close and using a lot of force which sent them flying - this is getting better now as he is getting better at reading them (and figuring out the whole point of the exercise too maybe...?).

I actually figured out (on my own!) that the turns and and direction changes go much more smoothly if I don't ask him to stop but to move out if he is too close...he is much more happy with that command and there is more flexibility for him to continue working on his own.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Annika,

I start dogs anywhere from 7-10 weeks and they all work close at first. They're pushy and fast at first no matter what age you start. However, they won't trust you if you keep stopping them and they lose their stock. I understand the cattle breeds and their need to make motion by coming in at the heels. Many an ACD have been turned off on sheep because they don't understand that they can control the stock without their instinctual heel. If all you have is light sheep, then you have to make do. We use the "move off" command for Thunder. Emphasize covering with lots of random turns out in the open for now. Does he have the instinct to head as well as heel? Some ACDs are heelers without being headers which is why I ask. Haven't seen enough working Vallhunds but they are certainly similar to what I call old school corgis.

Terrasita


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

no, he doesn't head. 

The one person I know who does work them on cattle, says hers work in pairs, one goes in and draws attention at the head while the other goes for the heels but I haven't seen Ulfie try that. His tendency is either to heel or to do body slams if he is up close (and barking of course, but mostly if he is challenged - by the goats - or frustrated). 

I hope he won't be turned off the whole exercise if he is not allowed to go in and heel or slam them :-(. But he does seem to understand increasingly that he can make them move by applying pressure from a distance.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

So that is a Valhund pictured? I was just going to inquire the breed. So there herding approach is Corgi like which is what I had thought. I also train periodically at a large sheep/cattle farm with the owner who has Cardigans. They can be nasty little boogers!! And vocal, my gosh, they are vocal! Please do keep me posted on your dog's progress as the Valhund has been of interest to me as a smaller alternative to my GSDs. At present though, I am working with my nice working ACD.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Annika,

If he's already beginning to understand control at a distance, that's huge. Two of my corgis were heelers [bit low on the hock with their heads on the ground and control of the lead sheep from the rear]. Maia would drive but control from the rear. She as never directly behind the sheep but out to the side so she could control the eye. When she was younger, I did LOTS of sending her to the heads. For your SV after HT begin doing lots of flanks to the head and when the shep turn, "there walk." He may think he has to heel to make them move but on a line you can hold him in the pocket where he is in control yet moving the stock forward. Traditionally corgis were used in groups for cattle drives. However, I think with the right training, this doesn't have to be. Historically, dogs just worked on the farm---very little formal training. The ranchers adapted to them as long as it worked.

Denise, its nice to hear that there are some cardigans out there that can take care of business. That drive and hardness has been essentially been bred out in a lot of the dogs and its the same in Pems as well. This is one of the reasons of my interest in the SV. Can you PM me your trainer. I'm curious if she is the lady that is on corgiherders that uses her cardigans to manage her cattle.

Annika, I'm sure you'll do fine. Just keep it moving and have a plan for recovering if it falls apart. Remember you have 10 minutes to make it happen and most judges will give you that time to make it happen. 

Terrasita


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Denise, he is definitely "vocal" as well - that might be off-putting to some large dog-people (my trainer has shepherds and she is not fond of that part of him). They are certainly not apartment dogs.

Otherwise, they seem - in my limited experience - to be a bit harder and pushier than most corgis. And they are more independent-minded than a German shepherd They are after all a spitz-breed and in some ways come through as such but they really like to work so that offsets some of their independence. As working dogs, they are allround - herding, agility, search and rescue and tracking (in Sweden), obedience (though not necessarily at top levels) etc. 

They have more of an off-button than larger working breeds which is good for me since I have periods when I get really busy and can only do a minimum of training/exercise.

So I'm very happy with the breed (would like a shepherd at some point but not until I have enough time for one).


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Annika,

My corgis have been more like a Vallhund, except that other than Maia they were strong headers intinctively. I built it in Maia. Her mother Morgwyn was a header and heeler. Rory my heading fool would never heel and gauged hoofs on cattle. Some corgis are vocal. Some are not. They do have a force bark but early on a lot of times its frustration barking due to what they feel about the handler controls. Sometimes its due to lack of confidence. The pitch/sound can tell you what it is. Regardless, don't try to take it out or correct him for the bark. Ignore it. As he gets more experienced and you and he get to that partnership, it will fade.

He sounds like a lotta fun. A lot of people can't do the independence but it doesn't bother me. Even my GSDs had an independent streak and certainly the bouv does. I guess its a trait I like and can't despair when they say to hell with my robotics.

Terrasita


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## Kerry Foose (Feb 20, 2010)

Hope you had a great run today...please post! I am set to do our first trial too in three weeks! gulp!8-[


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I think it's actually Sat/Sun the 17th/18th.

Good Luck!!


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Ditto. We're rooting for ya.

Terrasita


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks all! 

We qualified the first leg! Although not as smoothly and nicely as I, in my greenie arrogance, had thought  (it's always so easy from the sidelines).

See, we went there on Friday for the symposium and did a beautiful test run, controlled, balanced, perfect. I realized of course that I would have a bit more problems with nerves this weekend but it wasn't too bad at first this morning. 

However, we were the last dog out and the dog right before us sort of fell apart, swung between avoiding the goats and coming up and chasing them and finally completely lost it and started running down one of the goats and they had to get her out.

So then of course my nerves flared really bad. Meanwhile, the goats were a bit spooked from the previous run (they were behaving more like sheep...) and as a consequence Ulf and I had a bit of a rodeo as well where I lost them more easily than I usually do and Ulfie got frustrated and tried to take over so then I got myself in that position where I was too busy trying to control him (and forgetting to breathe...).

The judge's comment was not to enforce his stays as much (my gut reaction when the goats were running more and Ulf was more explosive than usual) and my trainer recommended enforcing the stays better  but also to make sure that he made the turns on both sides because he tends to overflank (he prefers away to go by and I was hoping that if I just kept moving and let him do what he wanted to, we would even out eventually). 

The person we worked for Friday said that he works really nicely but is tending a little toward one-sidedness (he wants to take them along the fence on the left, not the right) and to work him both directions, so I guess that and turning will be what we do in the future.

But we still have one run tomorrow - keep your fingers crossed that I remember to breathe and that we get our second leg! 

I think I have a video coming (if it came out) but I have to watch it before I dare to post it :-({|= (it's a bit embarrassing).

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I already know what Terrasita's comment will be about it....

PS. and I won't watch the runs before mine tomorrow! Better for our nerves to go and pee on things elsewhere! 

PS2. Darryl, Sasha did a beautiful run and got her PT title. She must have been a lapdog in her previous life though - she gets along with Ulfie but when he gets too pushy, she tries to climb into her new owner's lap (literally!) for protection. But it's wonderful to see her work the sheep because she is so dead certain about where she should place herself to get them to move - minimum effort, maximum effect! (although you could see her thinking that it would just be much better if both she and the sheep got to lie somewhere nice in the shadow rather than running around a stupid course...she had a point - it was 100 degrees up there today!).


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

How do I post a video on the forum (never tried that before)? Do I need to put it on something like youtube or photobucket first?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Big congrats on your first leg!
Don't change your way of doing things for tomorrow but get the dog off the fence as soon as you can. (one sidedness)
The fence will quickly become a crutch.

Posting a video from youtube is a good way........I've heard! 
I have no idea how to do that.

Have a GREAT day tomorrow! :wink:


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks, Bob! I will.

And I will also talk to my trainer about working equally on both sides. It's been interesting these couple of days I have been out there because it becomes very clear how different people have different training styles and how they "click" with certain trainers.

The ones who work softer dogs vs. the ones who work harder ones for example. I think the reason that I get along with my trainer is because she has shepherds and is very good with tougher dogs (and hardheaded people....). On the other hand, the other vallhund who works out there would probably benefit from someone working softer dogs (as well) because she shuts down to correction.

Also, I think the reason we've gotten into the habit of working mostly along one fence is in preparation for the HT and also I've been doing a junior herding dog pattern which takes me down the same way. So I guess we need to free up ourselves from that a bit so that we don't get "stuck."

Anyway, I'm on the run but will post the video later - I watched it myself a few times and what sticks out to me in it is priorities. My dog has his straight - the moment I become to preoccupied with him (in the turns), the goats (being sick of this game) decide to go home and I lose them. Ulfie, having his priorities straight, decides to go and block them from the draw and I become even more concerned with gaining control over him and completely forget about the goats. Today, I will keep my attention on the stock and see if we can both prioritize getting them to move where they are supposed to be instead of working against each other. 

The other thing that sticks out to me on the clip is that my dog is very happy out there and to be working (despite being overly enthusiastic) and that he actually follows my commands on both flanks - if I give them (and if they keep the stock gathered and moving the right way...)! I am the one who forgets to move my stick into the right hand and move along again (I am left and right-blind, so I forget which side is which)....

They said yesterday that everyone will screw up their first dog. That's a little depressing because I think he has the potential to become fantastic if I can just learn to work with him right. He should have been my second dog:???:.

Either way, today I will a) breathe, b) let my dog do his job and c) not lose track of the stock because of beginner's nerves


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

finished second leg (much smoother)! Our first title  .


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Here's the first run (incomplete but still).

http://www.youtube.com/user/nocoswede#p/a/u/1/L7vImJxSzAg

And the second one - smoother run, worse video quality.

http://www.youtube.com/user/nocoswede#p/a/u/0/Hi9paPaxLSs

I included the first one for educational purposes (what happens when you get nervous and start hyperventilating) but also because I think you see his instincts better in that one.

The second one, we got the job done quickly but he wasn't always on contact.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

NICE little dog and a huge CONGRATULATIONS on the first title. I much preferred the first video because he was working. He also heads and has a sense of gathering but the control work is shutting him down and taking his job away from him. Bob and I of course are drooling over the goats. They are very nice and will stay with the handler even with the dog off contact. Not so here. Shut the dog down here, and the stock is gone. I only say this because if you take it out now, you won't have the umph you need for the trial classes. I thought the judge was saying in the first video to let him get in the game more. Distance is fine if the dog is on the eye of the stock and in control. Following behind is not control and when you get in the trial classes, judges will hit you for drop and drift work and with certain types of stock, he will lose them. The off contact this early in his training is a huge red flag to EASE up on the pressure. He's very young and won't come into his true confidence until he starts getting close to three. 

He looks like he would be a LOT of fun to work. 

Terrasita


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

HUGE congrats for the first title and ditto with T on the work.
The dog obviously wants to work in the first video but is almost to sensitive to your pressure. 
I didn't really see that you were using the fence to much. 
LOVE the distance he has in the first video.


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks for the input! 

I'll definitely try to ease up on the pressure - the trial threw us both a bit (and especially me): I think in regular practice sessions I have the nerve to trust him and let him work more - not fearing a breakdown of the system... 

Yes, the first judge wanted him in better contact with the goats and said not to worry about breaking his stays. 

The second leg judge said nice job but that he was flanking too closely and nipping somewhat inappropriately (I wasn't too worried about that since it's a breed characteristic and I figure that the wider flanks and less nipping will come as he gets older). 

Our trainer wants the stays reinforced - at least I think that was her comment but I'm going up on Tuesday so hopefully I can talk it through with her then. 

We're probably a bit spoiled with those goats - we both know that he can be far behind and not on contact and they'll still walk with me. I'm wondering once we start working more with the sheep if that won't force us to work more on contact on the straight travel? 

Of course that's different from when I shut him down in the turns because I get nervous (which is more about teaching me to trust him and to read the situation better). I checked at home, and on the video, and he is quite clear on away and go by so it's more a question of how much speed he should have coming into the turns - because he comes too fast, he scatters them and then he gets after one, growling and nipping (that's what I fear anyway).

Perhaps, apart from taking off some pressure: as you both have said before, moving off the fence and doing "free" turns would also teach us both how to stay on contact more. 

Anyway, at this point, I'm really not fussed about rushing into PT (we might even hold off until the spring on that). I'd much rather do a lot of foundation work and turns, on both sides, in preparation for A-course.

But I'm happy we have the title! I've celebrated with sushi and a cold beer - and Ulfie by napping all afternoon


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

One more thought: actually, the reason he was probably working more in the first video was that the goats were a lot more flighty than usual (because I put a lot more pressure on him in that run than in the second one - or tried to - in the second one I tried to make the stops shorter and keep moving). So as a consequence he started watching them and getting after them since they were not just trotting along the way they usually are.

If I had had it my way, I would (stupidly) have shut him down completely in the first run - but he wouldn't have it ;-).


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just relax and let the dog do it's job! ............. :-k ...Now where have I heard that? ......many times!


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Annika,

He's fast on the turns because he has to get close to them and the pressure of the fence and the stock kinda unnerves him. You've done a lot of work with him staying away from them and not with him being relaxed when he is in the zone of them. Random walkabouts with lots of turns and you saying nothing in the dog will instill balance. Starting him with true driving not just following will get him more comfortable in the pressure where he won't feel he has to grip or use speed to make them move away from him. There are exercises for building confidence with going between the fence and stock.

You putting stick pressure on the turns can make him even more inclined to nip/grip. When you sent him on the second run he went off contact to the people. He didn't gather and bring you the goats. You walked to the goats while he hung out where the people were and the goats walked off with you. This is what I mean by taking the job away from the dog. Its kinda chase them off and then call them back. For the second run he spent most of the time off contact. That's not a controlled run--just goats following a handler without the dog. You do not want to get into this habit. If you want to follow a judge, go with the first. AKC is full of obedience placement dogs that aren't reading and controlling the stock themselves. For me with HT, I only want to see a stay in the beginning and a stop and recall at the end. Unless you just lose control of the situation, there is no need to down the dog. Its all fetch and balance with changes of direction. As for the second judge---flanking too closely where??? Except for the turns he was way off somewhere. Its HT and its not about distance work. 

The aussie trainers are good for saying push a dog off too far too fast and he doesn't understand it. They interpret it as don't work. You can have a dog working at a distance yet in control of the stock. If he's shutting down with "heavier" stock. Need to work with the confidence building. Otherwise, in video number 1, he had a job. In video number two with walk along goats, there is no job. You wnt to always keep the dog engaged, regardless.

T


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Terrasita - I understand the idea of teaching the dog to be comfortable in the stock's zone in principle. There was a Mal at the symposium and doing HT this weekend - obviously a much more high drive dog than mine but what I admired about it was how smoothly and effortlessly it was able to move around the stock, right up side by side with them with perfect balance and keeping them calm and gathered.

Ulfie was taught to do a walk up and because he has a lot of push and were headed right up to the stock, he couldn't get close to them without inciting them to move away. And I was taught to pause him whenever the stock started passing up ahead of me. So that's where the distance work comes from I think. I still can't get him to walk up and come expecially close - should I ask him to flank more instead? 

One more question (I've been writing too much - lots of things to work out and I'll have to stop soon and just go out and try to do it so I don't overthink everything): you mentioned exercises for confidence next to the fence. Is this something that has to be demonstrated practically or are you able to describe them in text?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Annika,

I'm not sure what you are saying regarding the walk up. A walk up is to control the sheep not to create more distance so as not to invade their flight zone. Its not just a change of speed. Because I started dogs on light sheep, there were skills that they didn't learn until I got the right stock to train them on. To teach a proper walk up. you need stock that don't run off. Sometimes I do little pens. I don't pack the sheep in. I want the dog to be able to move the sheep. I get the calmest sheep possible and have the dog just drive the stock around. He's inside the zone and has to handle the pressure. I don't do this with correction and the dog wears a harness so his head is free to move. I work on getting the dog calm and just moving the sheep around both directions. I've also been known to sit in a pen and read. I spent five hours with the bouv one day sitting in an alley with with loose sheep while I knitted. Every now and then I would flank her and move them around. There were sheep in all of the adjacent pens. Occasionally I would work the sheep in the different pens. These are kinda my chill out exercises. 

Sometimes the dog pushes the stock away because he is uncomfortable. More often than not, the frickin sheep are just too light. Goats are better to start. You want to be able to walk the dog up calmly even within a couple of feet of them to move the stock off.


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

We practiced the walk up on the goats - first on the longline, then off it. I leave him in a stay and walk over to the stock - then ask him to walk up and start moving forward.

He was taught that it means move in straight toward the stock (to move them forward) from whatever position you're in but usually to keep enough distance from them that they don't move past me (I'm ahead of them). This was sort of the basis of our stock work - though we also started circling on a line since we (my trainer) weren't sure that he would do this naturally. But most driving was done with a walk up.

However, a lot of time because of his bark and his "coiled spring" approach, he makes even the goats nervous enough that half of the small pen is enough to push them forward past me when he does a walk up. That's what I mean about enforcing the distance a lot. 

I understand about the exercises - they probably won't work for us since we don't have anything to work on at home. Might just be better to work on larger surfaces where he doesn't have the fence/stock pressure as much until we both "mature" some more and get some more confidence.

Thanks again for your commentary.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Annika,

What you're doing is more about trying to teach him to mechanically rate on the fetch. Its sorta place him and stop him. With what I'm talking about, you wouldn't be with the stock or between him and the stock. You're still keeping him from the stock. Teach a dog to correctly drive, greatly improves the rate on the fetch. With the fence, you have to circle him through the fence a zillion times and don't talk to him or try to make him do things. He has to get comfy with it by doing it without interference. The more worried he is the more push he will employ to make them move. As he gets more comfy, less unnecessary push. He won't learn this comfort with mechanically putting distance on him. The better they are up close, the better they become with distance on their own. You guys are training for the 6 and 12 o'clock picture. He's too short to control the eye of the stock following behind. Balance for control for him might be 4--5 o'clock. With walkabouts, they learn not push them past and FIND balance on their own---the position for moving them forward, yet without pushing them past you. I must admit I taught this to Rory out in a pasture. On the way up, he pushed them past and would head them back. I never said a word--just walked. On the way back, he found balance [2:00] and walked them. It was a calm walk and the sheep never passed me. I never had to revisit this again. Dogs can figure things out throught the job and they really don't want to do more than what's necessary. With a small dog there is a challenge that they face from the stock that bigger dogs don't. One of the laws of nature is that which you are taller than--you dominate. The little guys are always protesting this and I have learned that they should. So many times I've powered down my corgi, only to have the stock think they can take them out and this includes ducks. Wrong stock and he's taught to just be placed with no pressure on them or not enough, and they try to bash his brains in. They go off contact because we the handler have taken their tools away. A keener drivier dog just ignores you. The others shut down and don't work. Would you work without your tool kit? A long time ago I did an article called "The Corgi Way." Their "instinctual" tool kit is speed, bark, bite and usually in that order. Watch them on cattle and you know why. Take them away and what do they have? Nothing. There are a lot of trainers that don't know this and want to make them into little mechanical BCs. 

Enjoy him. I'm gonna test Judith's little Valhund bitch sometime this fall after the trials. I'll get her to video. She remembered Ulfie from the national.

T


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

See if you can google the Bud Williams stuff. Its hard to convey that dog needs to be in control of the stock not just so far off that they don't bolt, i.e. invading the flight zone. There is a position behind the eye/shoulder that they maintain control of the stock. Control is mental pressure and physical placment. You can turn a dog mentally off and no matter where you place him the stock will run off. We start doing to much obedience and the dog thinks we don't want them to work so they turn mentally off. Then the stock takes advantage. I have to trial on stock that demands that the dog maintain control or else there is a big penalty. Of course in farm work---there is a huge penalty. Stock will size up the dog. 

T


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

Interesting to hear about teaching Rory to balance the stock - and also about small dogs vs. larger ones in relationship to the stock.

I'll look for the writings you mentioned.

I'm trying to remember Judith but there were several nice puppy bitches about the same age there and a lot of new people and names for me so I'm not sure which one she was. 

I'm sure Ulfie made an impression as he was the grouchiest and - together with his parents - the loudest one around (which is saying a lot for the SV nationals \\/).


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