# Again with the ears...



## Lynsey Fuegner

So I'm sure I am driving you all nuts with this topic (I know my club is about to shoot me  ) but at what age should I start to be concerned if Mauser's ears aren't standing? He is a 12 week old German Shepherd...One ear is sort of standing with that whole "comb over" look and the other one is still a floppy pia...At what point (if any) should I be concerned...and/or does anyone have any suggestions or recomendations on things I can do to encourage the ears up? 
Thanks a bunch!


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## Mike Schoonbrood

At 5 months old I taped Yasko's left ear for 3 days and it stayed up. Just needed that little extra "umph". 12 weeks old with floppy ears is not uncommon.


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## Howard Gaines III

I would give him a Pit Bull cut! Makes them tough looking! \\/


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## Lee H Sternberg

I understand what you are going through. We worry about a hundred different physical and temperament things with a new pup. At 4 months old my Dutchies ears formed a tee pee on top on his head. He looked so stupid. Suddenly one morning they were both up and I could find something else to worry about. 

I wish it ended with the ears but it doesn't.


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## Lee H Sternberg

PS - Example: After my dogs ears went up I spent a few mornings studying his tail because it curls a little to one side.

Then I got a grip on myself!!!


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## Mike Schoonbrood

:lol: I just accepted my dogs are a physical mess. Testicals missing, curled tails, weak pasterns, floppy ears........ most of its either fixed itself, improved, or not important


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## Trish Campbell

Lynsey-this is what I tell my puppy people and I give them this information in their puppy packets-Keith will have it. A puppy’s ears should be upright by 4 1/2 months of age. As long as the pups ears have both gone up perfectly straight by 4 1/2 months; even if it is independent of each other, the earset will be fine. If one ear or both have not gone perfectly upright by 4 1/2 months, or if the dog has floppy tips on the ears; they will need to be taped or foam inserts glued inside the ears. 
This is done sometimes up to 5 weeks. If this is done, the dog’s ears should come up normal. Remember, during teething from 12 weeks until 6 months of age, a dog’s ears will go up and down from the stress of teething. If the dogs ears were up prior to teething, they will go up once the adult teeth come in. Make sure the dog has good chew toys during this time and that his crate is large enough that his ears don’t touch the top. I also tell my owners when the pups teeth they can add a tablespoon of cottage cheese or yogurt to the food for some calcium.
I've had one dog in the years I've been breeding who had a soft ear, it was a soft ear tip...he was in a companion home and they didn't want to hassle with the inserts..grrrr..I hate that look though, wish they would have!


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## ann schnerre

Trish Campbell said:


> A puppy’s ears should be upright by 4 1/2 months of age. As long as the pups ears have both gone up perfectly straight by 4 1/2 months; even if it is independent of each other, the earset will be fine. If one ear or both have not gone perfectly upright by 4 1/2 months, or if the dog has floppy tips on the ears; they will need to be taped or foam inserts glued inside the ears.


trish, i wish i'd known this when Brix was a pup!! it would have saved me a little sleep at night, but not much--he had/has heavy showline ears (darn WG dogs  ). by 5 mo i was really paranoid about them (they had tried but not stood by 4 1/2 mo), waited until he was 6 mo, then cut out cardboard inserts from paper towel tubes and glued them in his ears.

these would have worked perfectly but i could never find glue that would hold them for more than 2-3 days, so ended up taping them (the inserts). we did this for 4 weeks and he has nice ears now; but if you know what you're looking at, you can see where they were taped.

anyway, one other thing i did was add a 1/2 pack of knox unflavored gelatin to his food twice/day, along with good chew-bones. the gelatin can't hurt! 











this is how his ears look now!


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## Trish Campbell

He looks good Ann! What you did worked 
Show people would be best to ask for the kind of glue to use for the inserts...


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## Lynsey Fuegner

Thanks so much for all the replies everyone!



Trish Campbell said:


> Lynsey-this is what I tell my puppy people and I give them this information in their puppy packets-Keith will have it. A puppy’s ears should be upright by 4 1/2 months of age. As long as the pups ears have both gone up perfectly straight by 4 1/2 months; even if it is independent of each other, the earset will be fine. If one ear or both have not gone perfectly upright by 4 1/2 months, or if the dog has floppy tips on the ears; they will need to be taped or foam inserts glued inside the ears.
> This is done sometimes up to 5 weeks. If this is done, the dog’s ears should come up normal. Remember, during teething from 12 weeks until 6 months of age, a dog’s ears will go up and down from the stress of teething. If the dogs ears were up prior to teething, they will go up once the adult teeth come in. Make sure the dog has good chew toys during this time and that his crate is large enough that his ears don’t touch the top. I also tell my owners when the pups teeth they can add a tablespoon of cottage cheese or yogurt to the food for some calcium.
> I've had one dog in the years I've been breeding who had a soft ear, it was a soft ear tip...he was in a companion home and they didn't want to hassle with the inserts..grrrr..I hate that look though, wish they would have!


Thanks a bunch Trish, this helps a lot...one of his ears flops up and down, the other one hardly ever even tries to come up; it was up for about 20 minutes this morning and that was it. I have him in a Large Vari-Kennel right now when he is crated and I do offer him a bone in his crate as well as when he is out and I want him to leave me alone. I haven't noticed any signs of teething yet, but I will keep up the the yogurt...I'll tape if I have to, I know that ( especially with a working dog) ears aren't the biggest issue but I agree with you about not being able to stand a soft eared shepherd.

This is the latest pic of him on the club's website....its from last saturday.
http://www.rwdc.org/images/Feb08Maus1.jpg
the right ear is the one that stands, the left pretty much flops around.


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## susan tuck

I wouldn't worry about it or mess with his ears until he's done teething. Many years ago, with my first GSD I was so paranoid I wouldn't let anyone touch his ears until they were firmly upright (not necessary). If your dog is west german working lines, I wouldn't even worry about it.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

If you wanna see some horribly soft giant ears on a pup:

Yasko at 4.5 months old:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1273/1161749537_ea8bba4d7d_b.jpg

Yasko at 11.5 months old:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3197/2281001409_84e21a3b4f_b.jpg


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## Bob Scott

Lynsey, get some of those ear training "thingys" :grin: :grin: :grin: that Jen uses on her Presa's ears and tape them in his ears.


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## ann schnerre

Trish Campbell said:


> He looks good Ann! What you did worked
> Show people would be best to ask for the kind of glue to use for the inserts...


why thanks, trish; from you i take that as a true compliment  that pic is from last summer--wait til you see his head as a 26-27 month-old!! 

what the show ppl recomended (sp?) was "skin-bond" which i couldn't find around here for love nor money. but if i coulda found it, that plus the light cardboard inserts would've been GREAT, perfect. 

Brix would still be Brix with or w/o floppy ears, i grant that. but for what i paid for him, taping for 4 wks wasn't THAT bad to get the boy (and who knows: perhaps his ears would've been fine without taping...:-? ) as good-looking as he is (i will NOT go into his awesome tracking, wierdness about "sit", etc).

if anyone knows a good source for skin-bond--let me know; it never hurts to have asupplier


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## Trish Campbell

I bet you could find it online...I know people who do the toilet paper rolls and there is some kind of foam insert you can use. It's not as common for soft ears in workinglines, but it still happens. Some lines produce a large bell shaped ear that you have to watch that for.


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## Katie Schifferli

Skin-Bond had changed it's formula from what it used to be and is no longer quite the same...This is a product they recommend now with the same formula as what Skin-Bond used to be...

http://www.exmed.net/dept.asp?dept_id=491&gclid=CL-wn7Xn85ECFR0yFQodNW-vwg

Personally, when Argos ears were a little floppy at 5 months I used some Breathe-Right strips and Eyelash glue...Did the trick and was pretty minimal, so he didn't fuss about it at all. They were up in 2 weeks...


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## ann schnerre

i'd heard about breathe-rite, but eyelash glue??? who knew??? well, obviously, not me (i actually ended up using duct tape--hey, it worked, and if you take it off carefully with simple WATER, no big deal).

but i like katie's minimalist approach much better (where were you 18 mo ago??) 

i have to add that the cure for everything is: if it's NOT moving right, use WD-40; if it's moving too MUCH, use duct tape. plagarized from someone, i only have a 45W bulb at best...


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## J. Hunter Allred

Lynsey Fuegner said:


> So I'm sure I am driving you all nuts with this topic (I know my club is about to shoot me  ) but at what age should I start to be concerned if Mauser's ears aren't standing? He is a 12 week old German Shepherd...One ear is sort of standing with that whole "comb over" look and the other one is still a floppy pia...At what point (if any) should I be concerned...and/or does anyone have any suggestions or recomendations on things I can do to encourage the ears up?
> Thanks a bunch!


My dogs ears didn't stay up till 4 months or so I think. then they got a little weak when he was teething, and now they are quite rigid


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## Howard Gaines III

Typically ears will drop, stay up, go 1/2 way, and stay down while they go through the teething stage. Some lines of shepherds have the ears up early and stay up. I have seen show lines not firm up for a while...


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## Lynsey Fuegner

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> If you wanna see some horribly soft giant ears on a pup:
> 
> Yasko at 4.5 months old:
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1273/1161749537_ea8bba4d7d_b.jpg
> 
> Yasko at 11.5 months old:
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3197/2281001409_84e21a3b4f_b.jpg


Thanks Mike, Mauser's look just like that! did you do anything with Yasko's ears or did they eventually come up on their own?


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## James Schalch

I see a lot of floppy ears even after five months, depends on the teething situation. 12 Weeks is still real young.


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## Gillian Schuler

I used the old-fashioned shoulder pads - not too stiff but will hold the ear up. I cut it to shape his ear, tested it before sticking! I used normal instant glue . the skin glues don't seem to work. I left it in until it dropped off itself. 
He was my first GSD and the constant flapping narked me although I thought I was above such things. 

Gillian


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## Lynsey Fuegner

they were standing up pretty well on their own for a week or two, he's about 17 weeks or so now and diving headlong into teething so they've completely fallen again. The fact that they were up at all though gave me hope


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## Bob Scott

Hey kid! That pup looks like crap. I'll be glad to help you out and take him off your hands. 
Poor puppy can't make any decisions either. He's always stairing at Lynsey waiting for her to tell him what to do. 
Then there's his lack of loyalty. Every time this big guy walks on the field carrying this tug thingy the pup tries to run over and play tug with him.  :grin: :grin: :grin: :wink:


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## Lynsey Fuegner

Bob Scott said:


> Hey kid! That pup looks like crap. I'll be glad to help you out and take him off your hands.
> Poor puppy can't make any decisions either. He's always stairing at Lynsey waiting for her to tell him what to do.
> Then there's his lack of loyalty. Every time this big guy walks on the field carrying this tug thingy the pup tries to run over and play tug with him.  :grin: :grin: :grin: :wink:


lol, thanks Bob, I'll take that as a compliment :mrgreen: I just can't wait for him to get out of this retarded funk that we have gotten ourselves into so that we can get back to some teamwork! There's nothing more humbling that a puppy to reassure you that you don't, in fact, really matter.


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## Lynsey Fuegner

alrighty, I was hoping and praying that the ears would come up on their own...but Mauser is 6 months today and his right ear is still up and down but it has a constant "break" at one point ](*,) . I have been giving him a packet of knox gelatin at night and a tablespoon of plain yogurt in the morning and was hoping they'd come up on their own, I think now it's time to take matters into my own hands...I was reading up on quite a few of the suggestions in this post and am going to try one...so from my understanding I just need some sort of support (cardboard, elbow pads?, foam pads, etc) that I will glue into his ear and or tape in some way and then I will just leave them taped until the glue/adhesive just falls off? :-k any clarification (I am such an idiot #-o and have no experience with this) would be greatly appreciated 

thanks a bunch!


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## Mike Schoonbrood

When I taped Yasko's ears I used a cleaning solution the vet gave me so the tape would stick, then put one strip of tape up the inside of his ear, one strip of tape up the back of his ear, and then wrapped tape around his ear. The strips of tape on front/back gave enough support to keep the ear straight enough. I only had to do it for a few days and the ear stayed up. I re-taped twice a day, but since it was only for 3 days or so it wasnt a huge deal. They just needed that extra little bit of persuasion.


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## Katrina Kardiasmenos

For Nisha's ears (the dog in my avatar), I used tampons. I forget who told me to use them...One of her ears was floppy, while the other was bent back...

So, I took two tampons, got the action tampon out so I had just the plastic applicator then used surgical tape to keep them in her ears...within about a week both her ears were up perfectly...


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## Trish Campbell

Do a search online for foam inserts, then you could just glue them in the ear. Taping the ears is a bear to get that junk off.


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## Katrina Kardiasmenos

Trish Campbell said:


> Do a search online for foam inserts, then you could just glue them in the ear. Taping the ears is a bear to get that junk off.


Use the surgical tape...the one safe for use on hair...I had no problem getting it off Nisha's ears (in fact, it came off so easily, that I found myself taping her ears several times in that week)...


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## ann schnerre

i tried surgical tape and it didn't stay on for even half a day. 

i would really try breathe-right strips w/eyelash glue b/c that's so simple. i think cleaning the ear w/rubbing alcohol first to remove the wax would be a good idea. see if that works first (how long it stays attached), if it doesn't last for 12 hours, let us all know.

i tried every kind of glue out there: instant, gorilla, probably 3 other kinds, and they never held the cardboard in his ear even for 8 hours, it just wouldn't stick -- arghhh. check out the link above to the new, improved skin-bond glue, maybe that would work. if i ever have to go thru "ear trauma" again, i'd order some instantly.

don't despair!! you have some time yet, just start trying stuff--been there, done that, and look at Brix' ears now   (see page one)

and page 2, katie shifferli's link for skin-bond.


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## Trish Campbell

I'm with Ann, tape is just one more hassle..


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## Bob Scott

When I did terriers ears for the show ring I used fabric glue.


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## Lynsey Fuegner

Thanks for the wonderful advice everyone! I plan on looking at work tomorrow (gotta love Walgreens...) for the Breathrite strips, that stuff similar to the Skin bond, fake eyelash glue, Dr. Schol's pads and some packing foam for inserts...I figure I can't be too prepared and if one method doesn't seem to work I can move on to the next.

thanks a bunch for all the help, I will be sure to keep everyone posted and update with some (hopefully successful) pictures!


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## ann schnerre

and not only that, but most of the stuff you'll be able to use somehow or another if it doesn't work for Mauser's ear!!

if you do find "skin-bond" stuff that works at walgreens, let me know--i never did find it (then went to Lowe's for the gorilla glue, etc, ).


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## Lynsey Fuegner

ann freier said:


> and not only that, but most of the stuff you'll be able to use somehow or another if it doesn't work for Mauser's ear!!
> 
> if you do find "skin-bond" stuff that works at walgreens, let me know--i never did find it (then went to Lowe's for the gorilla glue, etc, ).


I wonder if the Breath Right strips would work on Jack (my pitbull) he snores like an old man...Sadly I didn't find any "skin bond" type glue at work today and when I asked the stock lady if we carried it she looked at me like I had 3 heads. My fiance got off work early and searched local stores for something like it but we ended up setttling on the eyelash adhesive. I'll be seeing Ryan tomorrow so he can hold Mauser while I rig up the "ear apparatus" - for someone with little or no dog sense that boy sure can hold a dog still in a way that the dog is comfortable, does not feel restrained, but is rock steady for anything, it's great!


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## ann schnerre

well if they don't work on Mauser, try the left-overs on Jack  

i got the "stupid" look also when looking for skin-bond at walgreens, and wal-mart (well, that wasn't really a surprise....). keep us posted on your trials and tribulations. and what worked for you!!


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## Trish Campbell

Stick with it for a few weeks  Have to take a pic of him with his rigged ears, lol! I'm sure he'll really enjoy it


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## ann schnerre

and you'll be able to laugh about it once his ears look like "real" GSD ears (about 8 mo later )

i'm so glad we took pics of Brix w/his duct taped ears--he's such a goof-ball....


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## Lynsey Fuegner

I need to get batteries for my camera...but thus far the breathe right strips and the eyelash glue have been in his ear for a little over 24 hours now. I tried a few different configurations and ended up using three strips and made sort of an upside down "V" to line his ear, so far it's looking great! Maus is such a little trooper through all of this (and so is Ryan for that matter) he hasn't messed with his ear one bit!


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## ann schnerre

get the rechargeable batteries--they really are worth it!! actually, get one set w/the charger and buy a spare, so you never run out. and don't let teenagers any where around the batteries/charger/camera. 

i'm glad Mauser hasn't messed w/his "breathe-right" strips; it amazed me that Brix didn't screw around/object much with all the messing we did with his ears. course he's a great boy anyway..


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## Lynsey Fuegner

Thanks for the tip on the rechargeable batteries! I'm trying them out as we speak, we'll see how they hold up to the camera...as promised here are some pics of the beast! As you can see, it's just his left ear that is the problem. These are the second application of the strips...I put the first ones in last saturday afternoon, they lasted to about friday afternoon when the two strips on the outside edge of the ear fell off, I pulled the inner strip out yesterday afternoon and let the ear stay empty saturday night and today, it didn't break like it had been before but it still isn't as stable as I would like it.


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## ann schnerre

it looks like it's working--yay!!!

he is getting BIG and BEAUTIFUL


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## Trish Campbell

Keep at it, it's coming along. Will have to stick with it for quite a few weeks probably


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## Justin Eimer

I never caught this thread when it started. A German Breeder of GSD's told me to feed Knox Gelatin to any pups that had a problem with ears standing. It worked for me with GSD pups years ago. I think that it was a teaspoon of the Knox gelatin powder with every meal. It is supposed to stregthen the cartilage in the ears. I have heard that some women use it to help harden their nails. It's worth a shot in conjunction with your strips. ~Justin


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## Lynsey Fuegner

Thanks for the tip Justin! I was given the same advice, and used it about 4 years ago, with my first shepherd Fenris. I've been giving Maus the gelatin as well as a bit of yogurt every day.


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## Justin Eimer

Just thought I would share Lindsey.8)


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## Lynsey Fuegner

after about 2 and a half weeks with the strips, here he is! Just in time to pose with us for one of our engagement photos


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## Maren Bell Jones

What a wonderful photo! You look so pretty! I almost didn't recognize you without glasses and dog training equipment. :mrgreen: We had our dogs in our engagement photo too. Wish we could have had one for the wedding, but that got vetoed. :roll:


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## ann schnerre

great photo--Mauser's ear looks great! are you gonna go another week just to be sure, or is it all good?

oh--you and the potential other half look good too


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## Lynsey Fuegner

Maren Bell Jones said:


> What a wonderful photo! You look so pretty! I almost didn't recognize you without glasses and dog training equipment. :mrgreen: We had our dogs in our engagement photo too. Wish we could have had one for the wedding, but that got vetoed. :roll:


Thanks! I know it's really bad when you email the pics to your mom and she has to do a double take; very rarely am I without glasses or holey jeans :lol:



ann freier said:


> great photo--Mauser's ear looks great! are you gonna go another week just to be sure, or is it all good?
> 
> oh--you and the potential other half look good too


Thanks Ann! All seems good so far, when the last one fell out we were prepared to add some more strips but the ear just sort of took off and (knock on wood [-o< ) has been really good.
And thanks for the compliment, though anyone who has met the other half would probably agree with me when I say I don't know which was more difficult, getting Ryan to dress nice, or getting Mauser to sit still for the pictures!


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## Bob Scott

HEY! Tell that boy to get his hand off your leg or he'll answer to me!!!! :evil: :lol: :wink:


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## Lynsey Fuegner

Bob Scott said:


> HEY! Tell that boy to get his hand off your leg or he'll answer to me!!!! :evil: :lol: :wink:


LMAO - I'll relay the message


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## ann schnerre

i might've missed something, but isn't Mauser s'posed to protect her?? what do you guys train over there???


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## Bob Scott

ann freier said:


> i might've missed something, but isn't Mauser s'posed to protect her?? what do you guys train over there???


 
I think Ryan is sneaking Mauser cookies when Lynsey isn't looking. He's got some evil plan in mind! :evil: :grin:


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## Katie McLellan

I'm a newbie on here, but was curious about this thread. Congrats on the engagement! Nice photo as well.

My friends all exclaim that I'm "wearing girl clothes" if I show up in anything other than scrubs and a t shirt. 

On the topic of ears, and forgive me as I'm not familiar with GSD's, why are "up" ears so important? My mal had up ears for three days last week and now we have one half up and the other doing a left lean. lol. She's only 13 weeks right now.


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## Bob Scott

If they were both up at one time they will be back up. Probably when teething is over at about 6 months.
It's just an aesthetic thing, for the most part. I've seen some really good working GSDs with floppy ears/ear.
Ugly bassids!  JKN!! :wink:


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## Lyn Chen

Yah, the ears have always been a big 'deal' since the beginning of the breed, just cause it looks good, and a dog without one doesn't really look like a shepherd. Plus, they're so big, so they always take a while to stand up.


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## Katie McLellan

When I adopted my collie, his ears were taped to help them tip forward. Apparently, back in the day, the tipped ears made for better acoustics and it happened naturally. I wondered if there was a similar physiological advantage to up ears in the GSD.


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## Al Curbow

Jason Sidener gave this info on how to make the ear stand, i tried everything with my 7mo old and this is by far the best! All the other stuff didn't work

http://gsdresource.proboards81.com/index.cgi?board=photo&action=display&thread=116&page=2


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## Russ Spencer

Al, how about quoting it. That link requires a login. Tks. I've got the same problem with a 6 m/o. I can't get the BreatheRights to stick in the ear. Shaving the inside of the ear would be hazardous.


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## Al Curbow

Russ, i don't know how to do the quotes and there's also a useful photo on there. It's easy to sign up on, i managed to, lol


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## Russ Spencer

Done. Thanks for the push. I'll give it a try, soon's I get some Tear Mender.


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## Howard Gaines III

In the case where the ears are naturally floppy, but one ear tips in, will time fix it after teething? Bouvier...


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## Bob Scott

Natural or cropped?
I wouldn't hesitate to wrap a cropped ear. The Presa breeder here always wraps a tampon (no $#!+) in the pup's cropped ears and always has nice ears. That is, after the stiches are out.


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## Howard Gaines III

Natural and floppy Bob. One ear tips or lays in and not down. Not sure the reason as this is the first breeding. Could be teething, genetic, I don't have a clue...


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## Bob Scott

I think the "new" regulations on no cropping in a lot of countries will have a lot of people breeding for ears now. It happend yrs back (before me) when cropping was no longer allowed in the White Bull terrier.
I used to glue my Kerry's ears in correct position with fabric glue for the show ring. 
I glued them until teething was finished. With a coated dog like the Kerry it was necessary to take them down occasionally because of the coat growing out. 
I suspect that the Dobe/Boxer/Dane folks that choose a natural ear are doing the same. 
Worth a try with the Bouv! Jus be sure to take the coat down (shave) in the areas (ear tip and ear fold fold) you glue and keep an eye open for infections in the ear due to hair groth and lack of air circulation. Dont' glue it all the way around. Just on the leading edge and the fold.


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## Ian Forbes

Howard Gaines III said:


> Natural and floppy Bob. One ear tips or lays in and not down. Not sure the reason as this is the first breeding. Could be teething, genetic, I don't have a clue...


Howard,

This happens quite easily with some 'floppy eared' breeds. Usual advice is to tape the ears during the teething faze. I failed to spot it in time with my Rott bitch and she has one ear that sits up slightly. Saying that, I don't really give a sh*t.

This is her with her wonky right ear:


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## Howard Gaines III

Ian funny, two days after your post, her half cocked ear is floppy/natural now. I'll be glad we she finishes teething. Then it will be the first heat cycle to deal with..........erh.


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