# Manwork training - latest



## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Xena is now 12.5 months old and she's getting better, stronger, more controllable and a more all round dog with each week that passes..

As well as personal protection, she's being trained for Service Dog Working Trials. One of those disciplines is the challenge of a fleeing man, the send, the bite, the control and escort afterwards.

With the help of some great trainers/agitators/decoys, we're starting to put everything together and Xena is getting used to how it all works. The manic, lunging, going crazy stuff she used to do, doesn't get her the bite. Control and discipline is the order of the day and the results in her getting what she wants.

Hope you like the video, which was taken today, I think we've come quite a way in the last 9 months or so...


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Hi Gary,

Very nice work, and told you before that I really like that little bitch of you.
Imo she has "it" being a gsd.
I now read you're training her as a ppd, service dog. In that case I would let the dog lead the fight (hope you understand what I mean .., Belgian English ..). Now it's the decoy doing all the job. 
I wonder what she does when the decoy just stands still at a certain moment..?
You have a great dog imo. Jo.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Johan Dekinder said:


> Hi Gary,
> 
> Very nice work, and told you before that I really like that little bitch of you.
> Imo she has "it" being a gsd.
> ...


HI Jo.. thanks for the compliment...

I know what you mean about the bite... although she hits very hard and committed.. she's happy to simply 'hang' there isn't she? Admittedly, she'll do this no matter what the distraction, uncomfortable stimulation, noise or whatever - so that's rewarding.. But I know what you mean in that she doesn't shake, pull or tug much..but simply hangs.

Of course, we both know that in real life, on flesh, that is practically all that would be required to seriously neutralise the bad guy - but I agree that perhaps more input from her would be nice..

I'll run it by my decoy and see what he thinks. He's very experienced in 'civil' work and I'm sure he'll come up with something or some idea..

Does anyone else on here have some suggestions regarding that side of things?

Thanks

Gary


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

> Awesome again as usual!!!

> Phil


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Gary,
I think it has everything to do with the way she was trained for bitework until now.. My 2 german sheps are working in exactly the same manner. when at a certain point i asked the decoy to just stand still, stop moving, well ... both of them went 'out' and started to bark.. : not what we want in real life situations. Sometimes we make them a bit lazy ourselves..
Watch f.e. a knpv trial or training, here also the fight has to come from the dog, the decoy doesn't move a lot, sometimes often just stands still.
Give it a try I'd say and see how she does. 

Cheers, Jo


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

OK Gary one last thing you can do. 


Send her to me.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Jerry,
too late, she's on a plane to Belgium :-$


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Nice job Gary and Xena, I really like Xena's snappy recall on the face attack. That's what we are working hard on at the moment as well. She doesn't look to big so she looks more agile than most GSD. Have you thought about doing some ring with her? She'd probably really excel at it. You should at least get her on a bite suit we have 2 czech line GSDs in our ring club at a little over 5 stone. Makes the flee attacks and escape attempts a lot more exciting as the dog doesn't just have to focus on the sleeve. 

You are doing a great job with her.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

WHOA ppl!! i have FIRST DIBS!! if she's on a plane to anywhere, it's Nebraska!!

gary--she looks REALLY good, and i'm thinking that for her age, the way she hangs on no matter what is good enough. i mean really, she's just a pup. give her some time--she'll bring the fight to the man. JMO, as uneducated as it is. the best bitch i ever had took til 2 yrs to "get it" and 3 yrs to get really serious about it.

let us know what your helper says about going "civil" just yet--i would love to hear his opinions. 

(just remember that she's MINE FIRST  )


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> Nice job Gary and Xena, I really like Xena's snappy recall on the face attack. That's what we are working hard on at the moment as well. She doesn't look to big so she looks more agile than most GSD. Have you thought about doing some ring with her? She'd probably really excel at it. You should at least get her on a bite suit.


Hi Geoff.

Thanks for the kind words...

Funnily enough, this coming Saturday, Xena and I are doing some KNPV bite suit training.. at my club.

There's some Dutch police decoys coming over from the Netherlands for a display and there's opportunities for our dogs to indulge..

I'll try to get some video footage from the day and post it next week..


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

ann freier said:


> WHOA ppl!! i have FIRST DIBS!! if she's on a plane to anywhere, it's Nebraska!!
> 
> gary--she looks REALLY good, and i'm thinking that for her age, the way she hangs on no matter what is good enough.
> 
> ...


Thanks Ann.. i'm glad she's still impressing you..

This is the reply from my decoy/agitator;

------------------------------------------
*
The bite was only there as a reward / stimulation for her correct work in the control aspect, in the scenario. So, if she broke during the challenges, she wouldn't get the bite (long line  ).

Xena has been trained in bite development and this has allowed her to remain clear headed and focused, regardless of pressure, pain or noise from the criminal. Even if he becomes passive

After bite development, I've trained Xena in "suspicion", totally separate form bite development - teaching her how to strike on the person, with no equipment (ie: no sleeves) used. The end result is k9 working in a state of mind that is totally focused on neutralising the bad guy, even with self preservation in mind.

All these areas put together at the right time create a k9 that has the ability to deal with ever it is faced with in its working life. Not just in a set series of circumstances or scenarios.

This way of training isn't always suitable for pure competition dogs, but does work for the areas I train in.. ie: civil work. It leaves the 'Edge' and 'personality' on the dog and avoids 'robots'.

The next stage for Xena will be the concealed sleeve...

Regards,
Damian*


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Nice stuff, Gary. You've both done really well.

When are we going to see some tracking or search square video??


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Gary Garner said:


> Funnily enough, this coming Saturday, Xena and I are doing some KNPV bite suit training.. at my club.
> 
> There's some Dutch police decoys coming over from the Netherlands for a display and there's opportunities for our dogs to indulge..
> 
> I'll try to get some video footage from the day and post it next week..


Ha ha! That is awesome! Get some video for sure.. I'd love to get a chance to work/train in KNPV or French Ring Campagne. My dog is more French and old Belgian lines vs KNPV lines, but she goes in real hard on the suit and uses her body to soften the impact on the suit. It is pretty entertaining seeing her hit like that. My French Ring coach is saying she will temper her entries as she gets more experienced. I hope she doesn't as it is nice to see that joyful wild abandon of going for the bite.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Ian Forbes said:


> Nice stuff, Gary. You've both done really well.
> 
> When are we going to see some tracking or search square video??


Funny you should say that, but I was only thinking the other day of the missed search opportunities..

I'm going to be doing some nose training with Xena on Friday, so I'l get it on tape..

:idea:


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## Mark Hessmann (Mar 16, 2008)

Gary Garner said:


> HI Jo.. thanks for the compliment...
> 
> Of course, we both know that in real life, on flesh, that is practically all that would be required to seriously neutralise the bad guy .
> 
> Gary



Not where I work.They would kill the dog & eat it.This is not meant as a negative....but really this wouldn't stop a girl.Sport dog.

Rgds Mark


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Hi Mark,
We're talking about a 1y old german shep, let's not forget that.
I told Gary more than once that I like here, a lot. Also, they make a great team together.
But .. - and there you def. have a point - I also told him that I would train her different from now on, considering they are training for security work/ppd. 

Regards, Jo


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## Mark Hessmann (Mar 16, 2008)

Johan Dekinder
Sport dog.For 20yrs Plus I have heard excuses.I call what I see. Sport training/sports dog. Has this handler had live bites to call such? Lets hear?Every day I hear nonsense like this.Criminals love dogs like this.
I 'd rather a dingo to protect me.
Mark


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Mark Hessmann said:


> Johan Dekinder
> Sport dog.For 20yrs Plus I have heard excuses.I call what I see. Sport training/sports dog. Has this handler had live bites to call such? Lets hear?Every day I hear nonsense like this.Criminals love dogs like this.
> I 'd rather a dingo to protect me.
> Mark


I was a soldier for 6 years and have been a cop for the last 11 years... So i've seen my far share of live dog bites.. [but lets not get into a pissing competition here]...

What you have to remember, though, is this is a 12 month old bitch.... her drive, nerves and tenacity at her age, are as good as I've seen in many dogs....

She's only a young dog at the end of the day... and the standard she's at, at the moment - is as good as can be expected...

Perhaps you know/think differently.... :-s I'm willing to listen and learn mate..

As for your 'i'd rather a dingo protect me'.... Well **** you too...


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Mark Hessmann said:


> Johan Dekinder
> Sport dog.Criminals love dogs like this.
> I 'd rather a dingo to protect me.
> Mark


I forgot to say, I look forward with interest to any videos that you post...so I can rip the shit out of them... :-s 

But I guess we'll never see any of them.. [-X


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## Mark Hessmann (Mar 16, 2008)

Blah Blah Blah
So you haven't had any live bites yourself.I've had about 1200plus
Maybe it's the anti Germanic thing?Multi-posting a few minutes apart shows lack of self control.Women & kids can read this so the swearing thing.Hmmm.As a cop you should know better.Play the man not the ball,ah!You put something up then whine like a girl because you don't like what was said.Tough.
A lot of wild dingoes have true aggression & would put many overly domesticated gsd's to shame.
FYI even schutzhund is illegal in a couple of Australian states & any protection training is viewed in very negative light.There has been a number of court cases in Australia regarding same.They even have in my state,a Government Agency called the Dog & Cat Management Board, trying to enforce by Law only 100% positive training eg Delta CGC training & are hell bent to stop all protection training via restrictions/law.About 12mths ago their XO rang me & started the conversation by stating.“I'm such & such the XO of the Dog & Cat Management Board & I require the name of your solicitors as we wish to prosecute you under........”
About 2yrs ago my wife put a couple of video's on the net.One was then used by a competitor.
Under legal advice I have been advised not to put ANY videos in the public arena.Hell they(my solicitors) don't want me to even talk about it in a forum etc under my name.The government agency has people who troll for same.I don't think you'll find to many vids on protection from Australian Companies.I've only seen a couple of very mild schutzhund video's by private entities.No hard core stuff.I'm in the process of moving to another state because of bureaucrats(non elected people making government policy) & their litigious stance(my taxes being used to litigate against me for providing training that keep my staff alive in hostile environments).Do gooders doing good at whose expense?I'm still waiting for one of them to come on patrol.The aboriginals are now out of control since the government apology of “Sorry”.Outback cops know the score & I have a good working relationship with 98% of them. 
So sport is sport.But don't tell me this is real manstopper training.Funny how schutzhunders all know how to train PPD & Patrol dogs but go into fits if someone like me questions them about anything.(European schutzhunders tend not to be as sensitive but in Australia it's Cult Schutzhund)
Several years ago a European Trainer came to Australia & advertised a Security K9 training Seminar.When questioned by me the man had never done one patrol in his life nor ever held a security license.Yet had 30/40 people attend.Wasted their money.Schutzhund in Australia is somewhat of a joke now to most security & police handlers because of same.Unless people like Flinks do them.
Rgds Mak H


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

And my Willie is bigger then both of yours cause I'm a mod.  
Let's keep the discussions away from personal insults guys! They serve no purpose other then feeding our own egos.

Thanks!
Bob


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Fair comment...

Mark..

I quite liked/enjoyed the last post you put on....

Just for the record, I'm not a Schutzhund enthusiast...far from it..

I've put the quick disagreement behind us now..

Friends..


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

On the subject of the dog fighting more in the battle, as opposed to hanging on... I think Xena's performance in yesterday's KNPV training, showed a little more of that....

What do you think?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v323/protectionk9/?action=view&current=KNPV2ndpart.flv


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> And my Willie is bigger then both of yours cause I'm a mod.
> Let's keep the discussions away from personal insults guys! They serve no purpose other then feeding our own egos.
> 
> Thanks!
> Bob


and thank YOU Bob, or i might have shot my mouth off inappropriately. now i have to go check out Xena trying KNPV...

all i can say is, she's not turning loose for love nor money!! keep on gary-she's a NICE girl


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## Mark Hessmann (Mar 16, 2008)

That's good Gary.I do not hold grudges.We'll try again.
Rgds Mark


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