# Traditional style bitesuits



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

What are your opinions on traditional style bite suits the kimono style jobbies used in KNPV and I think sometimes French ring in comparison to the more modern jobbies as used in PSA mondio etc?
Protection (ouchyness)
Wear
Mobility

and such things

Thanks


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

i am prolly a rather inexperienced suit user, but i've had a few on... 

i've not tried one of the KNPV-types where there is a leather suit underneath the cloth outer layers - two suits really, one inner one outer, and would no doubt take a while to put on and be impossible to slip off to reward the dog... 

that being said i think it really is a compromise between protection and being able to feel what the dog is doing... i was put in a suit that was far too large for me and very puffy and they wanted the dog doing tricep bites... i had to rely entirely on the handler and trainer who were there to tell me what to do because all i could feel was a weight on my shoulder... i had no idea where the dog was, what his grip was like, what he was doing when i could feel movement... 

the next day i arranged to borrow a personal suit jacket from another guy there who was closer to my size (i am not a big person  ) and he had what seemed to be a fairly thin ring competition style suit... it hurt like buggery because it was still a little baggy on me and i had not come prepared and was not wearing skinz or any extra protection under the suit and thus i got pinched like crazy, but i personally felt i was doing much better and could feel where the dog was, how his grip was, and what he was doing - i could respond straight away to the dog instead of waiting to be told to react... 

so in my limited opinion i think it really comes down to a balance between the amount of protection and the fit of the suit... ideally everyone should have their own that is cut for them but it's not an ideal world... i think it comes down to personal preference as to how puffy a suit is... but these days when we can make kevlar pressure suits that are quite thin and very safe (but also rather ouchy), there is no need for the big stay-puft / michelin man style suits, but i guess for a very inexperienced decoy they are the best thing to put them in so they don't get too smashed their first time lol... 

ugh, sorry, this post brought to you by sleep deprivation...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

not bite work but sorta related ...

if i'm working with a problem dog who has had (undesirable) live bites, i use mini pony wraps around the bicep and a thick ray allen leather gauntlet on the forearm and wrap this with a hexarmor full sleeve.

i'm not trying to get the dog to bite, but i am planning ahead that the dog will eventually take a shot at an arm. but i also know the dog is not gonna be committed and will be doing it to make me back off, since most are just biting out of fear or nerves, and all i want to do is show the dog it's useless and won't work

it limits damage to pinches since the dog can't penetrate the hexarmor. works for me in these situations and hard for the dog to get a grip since it will slip off the sleeve

but maybe an option to consider when bringing up a pup or young dog to build commitment ?


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks for the comments guys, interesting stuff Rick, I have a buddy that uses wraps too.
I'm looking for a new suit, have been for about a year cos I iz a slacker.
I prefer movement over protection and not too bothered about pressure I'm fairly use to it. Never seen a KNPV suit in real life, look very thin so am more concerned about punctures than anything especially with the FR suits.
Have been using someone elses modern style training suit but I don't get on with it at all, proper michelin man type suit, really hard to move, heavy yuk....
Also get knackered relatively quickly in it, esp on a hot day. Leg bites are shite in it as well because of it's bulk the dogs don't bother turning their heads and just grab a mouthfull of suit.
Only just discovered the pressure distribution stuff, looks interesting anyone use them? spose I could get a FR one and a pressure suit to save my old(ish) bones lol


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

A french KNPV suit tho being bulky and heavy should nae present much of a problem to the decoy or the dog that bites it. Most of our training decoys wear it and are quite willing to take 7 or 8 dogs in a row during training for atleast 3 exercises. It all comes down to building up stamina and endurance I guess. Most decoys have a hard time when starting out in a french KNPV suit but with training the soon get used to the way the suit wears and there isn't much of a problem at all. As for the dogs... They are quite easy to feel and there is extra protection needed since even in a french KNPV suit you can feel the dogs bite very well. That is ofcourse provided you have a good biter on the leash and not one of those half teeth pullers. 

As for the kimono style suits :lol:

I don't know where you have seen one of those that it looked like a kimono but a trial suit of leather with Jute should be fitted to the decoy. It isn't to wide or narrow and mostly gets fitted to measure correctly on the decoy. There is the leg part that slides over the waist and gets banded up over the shoulders, than you have the vest part that you slip on and close with small belts on the chest and finally there is the leg protection that gets mounted over the calves and strapped in place. Over this you put the jute pants and jute jacket. Takes about 3 minutes to put one and the Jute jacket about 3 seconds to take of if you want to reward the dog by letting him take the jacket with him a a victory reward. Its all about training and how you do things and getting used to wearing the decoying materials. I've worn both style suits for training for years (not anymore) and yep... it hurts like a bitch at times if you do not use extra protection... and then ofcourse there are the dogs that you can poor yourself into concrete for and the bastids still hurt you but thats what comes with decoying. You either accept it, or don't wear the suit :lol: Most accept it tho, some even love it! I know I did, bruises and sometimes punctures straight through the suit but hey... aint nothing like decoying to make you feel alive.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Och mun Alice, you know what I mean, suits with open sleeves and pants not cuffed ones 

Thanks! that was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

A French KNPV suit? Hmmm never heard of it.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Ben Thompson said:


> A French KNPV suit? Hmmm never heard of it.


Leather Trial suit for under the Jute suit.










Jute trial suit, goes over the leather undersuit.










French suit for training.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

i bow to Alice's far superior knowledge of bite suits!

it had never even occured to me that it would be possible to leave the buckles undone on a KNPV suit and slip the outer suit as a reward... but then i guess you don't always use the 2-part style suits either... 

when you say "French KNPV suit" do you just mean a suit made from french linen without the leather inner suit?


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Yes these are the exact suits I am talking about


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Jay Quinn said:


> i bow to Alice's far superior knowledge of bite suits!
> 
> it had never even occured to me that it would be possible to leave the buckles undone on a KNPV suit and slip the outer suit as a reward... but then i guess you don't always use the 2-part style suits either...
> 
> when you say "French KNPV suit" do you just mean a suit made from french linen without the leather inner suit?


Nope. A french KNPV suit is a very heavy and bulky thing and its quite hard to move around in it since its also very thick. There is nothing underneath it. Its just a jacket and a pair of pants. 

If you look closely at the sleeve you will see the material is about 3 inches thick due to the padding. The arms are always quite long so the decoy can pull his hands inside the sleeves to protect from accidental nips and bites. 










The pants are also about 3 inches thick due to the padding inside. It takes a bit of getting used to to be able to decoy with them. They are in no way as mobile and easy to wear as the trial suit which gives a lot of freedom of movement. Also the french suit is harder for dogs to bite on which means they have to try harder and makes for a stronger bite.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I did not know there were different kinds of KNPV suits. I guess the french and the dutch do get along.


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## kerry engels (Nov 7, 2010)

How much are the leather "under" suits? I wonder if one of them would make a good "hidden" suit with street clothing over it.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

kerry engels said:


> How much are the leather "under" suits? I wonder if one of them would make a good "hidden" suit with street clothing over it.


They are around 500 Euro's which makes for $700,= I think?

Several people at the club have used the leather under street clothes but it isn't as mobile or natural as you would think since the leather is quite thick. It is an option to do it this way tho and it protects well enough but expect pain when doing this.


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