# How vets assess owners and vice versa



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

From another thread:

How much are you as an owner involved in your dog's medical care? How do you find out whether you know more about, say, nutrition, than the vet? (I have to say that I have not yet come across a GP vet who had anything close to the level of nutrition knowledge that Maren has. I pretty much assume, and experience has borne this out, that I know much more about that subject than the vet in front of me. This would be insulting and distressing to any GP vet I ever did run into who actually had nutrition education and knowledge. :lol: )

How would you like your vet to assess the owner's level of experience/expertise?


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

The first question is easy, Yes, I am a lot interested in my dog's medical care.

Then, the other questions to me become sort of grey and difficult (for me) to answer. I am totally spoiled with a very down to earth, open minded and practical vet. He is open to discussion, learning, and also to trusting his experiences and "sticking to" what he does know. (which is a lot). 

I'm thinking as far as assessment, it boils down to a personality thing. The cloak of competency (white coat) that vet wears is important--though can be abused. If he/she is good, they will encourage owner involvement with care/treatment plans. (and know they just *might* learn something if they listen).

PS. Interesting topic--in fact, it is quite related to something I've been wanting to post about--perhaps kindof a flipside to what you are posting about now--how exactly to go about writing a letter to a previous vet who VOTED ME OUT. (Did not know there was an election process in being a customer to a vet!!! I will get around to a post about this later) 

Long story short--do not want to hijack--back on topic--THAT type of vet is one who could give a rip about owner experience and/or expertise--they don't count, right?


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

We are lucky. We drive 45 miles north to a vet that works with us on all medical care for our dogs.

She will ask us and another breeder about nutrition, we have good discussions about vaccinations, etc.

We have one vet a few minutes from us that is technically good, but his "bedside" manner needs improvement. We do use him occasionally and he takes excellent xrays (does penn -hip as well).

No other good vets in our area.

We are lucky and we know it.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

How? Well, I'd like to think he would ask questions and not just give instructions on what to feed the dog. I'd like to think he'd take into consideration the condition the dog was in when he examined him, i.e. not just shiny coat, bright eyes=P~ and especially, he'd LISTEN to the owner and not just assume he knew better than her/him.

I changed vets a few years ago for several reasons but one was when both dogs had stomach disorders and the vet ordered a diet of Danish food, horribly expensive and, when finished, the stomach distorders returned. I challenged him and said just giving them this food isn't solving the problem and he said we could keep with the food on a regular basis - another client always fed this food. When I asked him what breed, he said it was Yorkshire Terrier. Our dogs weighed 100kgs together and weren't fat.

Our current vet we knew privately - his wife did a bit of dog training with her Rottweiler. He gives us advice when we need it and doesn't just go by the book but uses his nose and his hands, unusual these days. He has what we say in German "Fingerspitzengefühl" = intuition??


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Michele McAtee said:


> If he/she is good, they will encourage owner involvement with care/treatment plans. (and know they just *might* learn something if they listen).


This might be what you want. It's what I want.

But think of how many owners want the vet to be the answer-person. Period. In fact, I imagine that many owners would be flabbergasted to be expected to "learn" anything or to involve themselves on any but a financial level in a treatment decision process.

In fact again, I imagine that many owners feel that this is what they are paying for.

I expect (and demand) to be a partner in all of my dogs' healthcare. But I also admit that I'd probably be offended at being presented with a questionnaire meant to gauge my level of knowledge. How would a vet deal with this kind of spectrum among clients?


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

One more thought...how would I like vets to assess owners' expertise? IMO, it is up to the owner to intelligently bring information to the table. The vet (hopefully) is open to this, however, a vet did earn the right (somehow, someway) to be a vet, with their own practice, and have the right to decide how to assess owners. Like I said, at that point (if owners are intellient and the vet is any sort of decent) it boils down to personality and it is the vet's assessment (or method he/she chooses to assess) that ultimately counts, right?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Michele McAtee said:


> One more thought...how would I like vets to assess owners' expertise? IMO, it is up to the owner to intelligently bring information to the table. The vet (hopefully) is open to this, however, a vet did earn the right (somehow, someway) to be a vet, with their own practice, and have the right to decide how to assess owners. ...


Really good point. 

So then the vet's process of evaluating my knowledge would be to wait for me to present it in conversation?

Maybe kind of hit-or-miss ... ?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I expect (and demand) to be a partner in all of my dogs' healthcare. But I also admit that I'd probably be offended at being presented with a questionnaire meant to gauge my level of knowledge. How would a vet deal with this kind of spectrum among clients?


Well, it would be something to the extent of, beyond health history and contact info, asking questions like:

What do you enjoy doing with your dog? This can be as simple as playing ball in the backyard or being a world class athlete. I think that's a big clue on who I'm dealing with. It also gives clues about possible exposure to pathogens (like tick borne diseases from being in the woods, giardia from drinking from ponds, things of that nature).

Is your dog an indoor/outdoor or both dog?

What kind of exercise does your get on a weekly basis?

What other pets do you have in or outside the home? Lots of things can be transmitted back and forth.

What kinds of foods has your dog been on the last 6 months? What kinds of treats? Any table scraps?

Pretty basic stuff, really. You know, same sorts of things that you fill out the first time you go to a new dentist, doctor, optometrist, etc. Basically, I don't want to talk down to people if we're already on the same page because I hate when people do it to me, but at the same time, there are sooooo many completely clueless folks out there who have no idea about their own health or diet, let alone their dogs. That probably explains the popularity of Beneful and Ol' Roy. :roll: It's a spectrum, but it helps separate the wheat from the chaff a bit. Remember, you guys are the EXCEPTION! Not that the clueless furbaby folks don't care about their animals, but they don't realize the importance of diet nor do they often realize WHY it costs what it does. 

For a scary sampling, it's always "fun" (in a painful sort of way) to look at the dog section of the Pet section of Yahoo answers. This is the kind of folks we have to deal with, and many of them in an emergency would rather get online than oh, I don't know...call the vet? ](*,)](*,)](*,)

http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/;_ylt=AgFLZHlr.W44RRFZg13I_UvL7BR.;_ylv=3?link=list&sid=396546021


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> ... Remember, you guys are the EXCEPTION! Not that the clueless furbaby folks don't care about their animals, but they don't realize the importance of diet nor do they often realize WHY it costs what it does.


Yes. It's easy to fall into the POV that the owners are mainly knowledgeable folks who are talked down to by holier-than-thou vets.

The "mainly knowledgeable folks" --- probably not accurate.


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Really good point.
> 
> So then the vet's process of evaluating my knowledge would be to wait for me to present it in conversation?
> 
> Maybe kind of hit-or-miss ... ?



I'm thinking yes, with the majority of vets (even the good ones). In my field of work, neonatal intensive care unit, the MD teams are world renowned docs and are part of a leadership which encourages parents involvement in rounds, treatment plans, opinions, beliefs etc...this is relatively new in the medical industry and I do not know how veterinary medicine compares in advances such as this...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> For a scary sampling, it's always "fun" (in a painful sort of way) to look at the dog section of the Pet section of Yahoo answers. This is the kind of folks we have to deal with, and many of them in an emergency would rather get online than oh, I don't know...call the vet? ](*,)](*,)](*,)
> 
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/;_ylt=AgFLZHlr.W44RRFZg13I_UvL7BR.;_ylv=3?link=list&sid=396546021


Which are more terrifying? The questions? Or the answers (from "real people")? Tough call. :???:


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I changed vets a few years ago for several reasons but one was when both dogs had stomach disorders and the vet ordered a diet of Danish food, horribly expensive and, when finished, the stomach distorders returned. I challenged him and said just giving them this food isn't solving the problem and he said we could keep with the food on a regular basis - another client always fed this food. When I asked him what breed, he said it was Yorkshire Terrier. Our dogs weighed 100kgs together and weren't fat.


I am going to be finding a new vet and one of the things I look for is a vet who doesn't just try and put your pet on perscript dog food every time something goes wrong.
I understand there is a time when some dogs need them. Buuut most of them time they really don't. I have seen MANY GS owners go into the vet bc their dogs itching and chewing and come out with bags of Z/D and tons of meds... or their dog is having D+ and coming out with I/D and meds...
IMO p. food isnt a quick fix. I personally say "No Thanks" when ever they ask me to put my pets on one [-X


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## Russ Spencer (Jun 2, 2008)

When I moved down here to Texas, it took about a year of hit and miss to find the 'Vet of a lifetime.' He's an All Animal vet, wears jeans and ball cap. We chat, he listens and works with me. He'll work out dosages of ivermectin for me, knowing I'm not going to buy off his shelf. If there's a home remedy that I'm interested in, we'll discuss it. If he's heard of one, we'll discuss it. My average visit is 50% treatment, 50% related chat. I don't hesitate sending people to his clinic. My son has 5 dogs and drives 90 miles each way to his clinic.

Being close to a primo vet school helps too. He hires brand new vets and instills good patient/owner/vet skills and in return gets people with the latest and greatest skill sets to work for him. I don't hesitate to have my dogs cared for by his new hires. They inevitably move back home though.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> I am going to be finding a new vet and one of the things I look for is a vet who doesn't just try and put your pet on perscript dog food every time something goes wrong.
> I understand there is a time when some dogs need them. Buuut most of them time they really don't. I have seen MANY GS owners go into the vet bc their dogs itching and chewing and come out with bags of Z/D and tons of meds... or their dog is having D+ and coming out with I/D and meds...
> IMO p. food isnt a quick fix. I personally say "No Thanks" when ever they ask me to put my pets on one [-X


I unfortunately can't share which diets to use for which on a public forum or there may be lay people who would attempt to use them instead of seeing their vet first (like people using diet to correct their own health problems without consulting a physician). But I will say that Natura has come out with a vet product guide outlining which diets it recommends feeding for which medical condition. Natura's board certified veterinary nutritionist developed it and it even has a traditional Chinese medicine conversion if anyone has a holistic vet with a TCM proclivity. They can't have a protein restricted renal diet or stone diet available OTC for various reasons, but many other common medical conditions are manageable using their OTC diets. If you are interested, have your vet visit and they can use that as a guide to help your dogs: 

http://www.naturavet.com


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I have not been able to find my "all in one" dream vet. Instead I am a bit of a vet slut  :lol: 

I don't like my town vet and I avoid him if at all possible. I had some bad interactions with him when my dog was a pup in the way he handled my dog, vaccinations schedules and some other stuff. In an emergency I would go to him, but he is usually closed anyways. This is a general consensus amongst dog owners in my town, most drive at least an hour instead of seeing him. Not sure why he changed form lawyering to being a vet.

There is a clinic about an hr away that I go to for yearly bloodwork, I like their lab services and the vets are nice. They generally frown upon my choice of diet and vaccination schedule, but they are not preachy and tell me that they can't argue with my dog's great condition (weight, teeth, muscle tone, coat...) so I should keep doing what I am doing. If my dog needed minor surgery I would go here. They also have a 24 hr emergency number/vet on call.

Then I have a vet that is about an hr away but she has started a homecall service and runs a practice out of her truck. She was working in a regular clinic, but she has a very alternative slant. She advocates raw diets, limited vax scedules. I have her take blood and ship for my titers. SHe will meet you in a park or at your house to look at your dog and this is a good service.

She also does animal chiropractics, which she seems to be very good at. My dog has not needed such a thing, but I know a lot of dogs she has helped. The most miraculous being a male golden SAR dog that was having incontinance at rest. Regular vet did tests found no infection and prescribed drugs for life. SHe also does homeopathic and Chinese stuff, but I do not trust her there don't trust her experience or training in that regard.

If I wanted to go homeopathic, there is a vet 5 hrs away I would see. SHe came reccommended by several breeders and though I don't really beleive to much in that hocus pocus, she did seem to REALLY help my dog through some crazy mystery illness he had when he was young and all the other vets gave up. This woman is also a regular vet, she specializes in diet and homeopathics.

I must admit since my dog's mystery illness cleared up and I started feeding raw and quit vaccinating, I haven't had much need for a vet. I even made it all last winter without cutting my dog with my skis. A major acheivement on my part \\/ \\/ 

I can only imagine what the vet's must think of me #-o :-k


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## Sarah Mark (Jul 11, 2006)

The consultation is a discussion with my clients about their pets' health requirements - I try to establish what their needs and expectations are (the clients'!) and encourage their input into the treatment plan etc etc. A large majority are not interested. They want the problem in front of them fixed ASAP and for as little cost as possible. 

Its is a refreshing change when clients actually engage and get involved. Many do, but these are by far the minority.


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