# I need a bite sleeve.



## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

good afternoon WDF patrons;
I need a bite sleeve. Not right now, but soon enough. i am working with a local club to get in training to be a helper. i can use others sleeves when i start catching dogs (won't be for a while) but would like to get my own sooner rather than later.I can't always be depending on others for neccesary gear. 

i know that all the sleeves i have tried on were schiewkert(sp) and they comfy and seemed well built. all i did was try them on, i have never caught a dog on a sleeve yet. 

I have been told there are a couple of brands of sleeves in use at the club i hope to be training with and i will have the chance to try on a few of them when i go back. 

what brands of sleeves are good? 

what brands should be avoided?

what type of sleeve is best for general helper work? standard adult sleeve, trial sleeve, w/ or w/o bite bar? i seem some now with air filled bite bars...those just a gimmick or do they help with something? 

should i get a jute or synthetic cover?

where are the best places to get sleeves?

i will talk to the TD at the club next weekend when i go and get as much info as possible on sleeves for schutzhund, but i'd like to know what ya'll think of the various sleeves available. 

thanks.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

If you're going to work dogs then you need to be comfortable. The best thing to do is try a bunch of different sleeves. They are all different. You might not like where or how the handle inside the sleeve is position in one sleeve but love it where it is in another. 

Ask your TD what he thinks about brands. I don't know how your TD is, but some of them them get pissy when you go over their heads for info. At the end of the day, he's teaching you and you have to wear the sleeve so start local before you go global.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris,

I really like this new X sleeve
http://www.schutzhund-training-store.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21&products_id=146
You can use it as a puppy sleeve and then add one or two inserts to upgrade to intermediate and trial level. Get the sleeve cover from someone else. The cover that comes with the X sleeve is junk


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

yeah, i'm also in the same boat. The club I train with has a bunch of sleeves, but I'm considering buying my own sleeve since ive got shorter arms than the other helpers, and I kind of like the idea of having my own equipment.

You can certainly get your feet wet with the equipment that is provided just to see if its worth investing the money, but like it my case, it really sucks when the handle is way up the sleeve and you got a 80-90lb dog hanging off of it. Its not comfortable at all!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

If you belong to a club, you might first check with your TD to see if the sleeve you are buying is OK for use with those dogs. Not all sleeves are good and cheap sleeves and covers can cause problems...:-(


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We use Ray Allen and Hard Dog. I have several different models. I don't care for bite bars, but I do like the ones with replaceable covers. I think the sleeves are synthetic, but the covers are jute. My suit is Hard Dog, and I have an old Ray Allen that's been arouund for years.

DFrost


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

thanks for the insight ya'll! i will be going to the club for the next sunday session and will be asking all my questions regarding gear and whatnot then. 

I will most likely use the various sleeves and whatnot the members up there have the first couple times until i can get a better idea of what the kind of sleeves they prefer at that club , and which ones are most comfy to me. 

I hope to be working on helper stuff in the year or so until i can get my working dog pup so i will certainly be needing a sleeve of my own, but will hold off on the purchase until after trying the sleeves available at the club. 

i can easily see how cheap sleeves could be trouble in many ways..i certainly don't want myself or someones dog to get hurt becuase of crappy equipment. what sleeves should be avoided?


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## Ben Haley (Nov 30, 2008)

Hi

I think it also depends on what sort of training you will be doing. Personally I found Kircher K9 Consultants to have excellent well made Belgian ring arms, that are suitable for most applications, they come in both Jute and Synthetic.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

There are many good quality sleeves out there from many manufacturers. The one to avoid for sure is anything made by Active Dogs, it may fall apart when you remove it from the box, and it will feel like you have the box itself on you arm when you try to use it.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Chris if you were really into bite training, you would do it raw arm first. This way you can feel the bite pressure and adjust to the dog's strengths. IMO :mrgreen:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Howard actually makes a good point Chris. I would start with Armin's Giant Shnauzer Burzel right off the bat.


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## Toran Scott (Mar 27, 2009)

Hi Chris, all good points so far, especially talking to your TD for his/her opinion. I have an X-Sleeve and I actually like it but I wouldn't buy another (I had the original version so the newer might be better). I have yet to hear a serious SchH decoy say they like the sleeve but I don't mind mine, especially when working ppd dogs that trash equipment. You can almost never go wrong with a Frabo or Gappay and my sleeve guru Mario Fernandez highly recommends the Ray Allen compression sleeve, at a 125 bucks its a good sleeve that you don't mind if it gets trashed a bit. I have heard that the Gappay trial arm can soften a bit quicker than some like but the ones I have worn were nice. I just recently bought the Frabo trial arm #9 and I like it so far. Wish the handle was better padded but other than that I really like it. You need to figure out what level dogs you will be working. Some may get chewy on a compression sleeve but for a lot of dogs it is a great training sleeve (especially for newer decoys who may be more likely to accidentally jam a dog). I have used a Schweikert arm a good bit at our club and it is quite heavy. I am hoping to order the Ray Allen compression soon for my arsenal. Good luck with your search. There have been a few different threads about sleeves on the tru-grit board that were very helpful, one not too long ago. 
Toran


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## John Haudenshield (Sep 18, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> Howard actually makes a good point Chris. I would start with Armin's Giant Shnauzer Burzel right off the bat.


That's cruel....absolutely true and funny, but cruel (to Chris).


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

They're all pillows, designed to negate any type of bite.

One brand over another, what's the difference ? Have you ever seen a competition where the decoy was in any type of pain using a sleeve ??


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> They're all pillows, designed to negate any type of bite.
> 
> One brand over another, what's the difference ? Have you ever seen a competition where the decoy was in any type of pain using a sleeve ??


Gerry, there is a HUGE difference! Sort of like buying a pair of shoes from the dollar store and running a marathon in them, compared to buying a proper pair of running shoes. 
Both shoes will keep the rocks from hurting your feet, but at the end of the day you will know the difference.
I used to have a working dog equipment company and I have seen, used, owned, and dissassembled sleeves from literally every manufacturer in the industry. Some are made very similarly, others are quite unique. Yes, they will all keep the teeth from poking you full of holes (usually) but they all feel, function, and hold up completely differently.
If you use any piece of equipment often, it makes all of the difference in the world how it was made, how it feels, how it functions, how it holds up to lots of abuse, how the handle is angled in relation to the bite bar, where the hinge sits compared to the natural bend of your elbow, how the upper arm cuff interferes with the natural movement of the sleeve, how the cover fits.....I could go on and on, but for 100% sure...............IT MATTERS!!!!!!
and for the record, i have had dogs go through some sleeves and puncture my skin. (I would stay away from Active dogs sleeves)


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

thanks ya'll! I have contacted a member at the club and will be up there on sundays thru november and saturdays from november thru the spring if they' have me.

At least i'll get to take alot of cool pictures and ask tons of questions..and hopefully learning some helper stuff soon. 

I am excited already! i was reading up on the helper instructions and rules on the schutzhund usa website to get a better idea of what i will hopefully be learning. 

if i ever work that giant schaunzer I'll just be trying hard not to fall over when he hits the sleeve...he looks like a badass. certainly not the first dog I would want to do decoy stuff with. 

I have been looking at different sleeves and pricing and have decided the only thing to do is try em on and get a feel for em...i'd never buy a new set of hiking boots without tryin em on so I figure the same approach would be wise with a bite sleeve.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> Gerry, there is a HUGE difference! Sort of like buying a pair of shoes from the dollar store and running a marathon in them, compared to buying a proper pair of running shoes.
> Both shoes will keep the rocks from hurting your feet, but at the end of the day you will know the difference.
> I used to have a working dog equipment company and I have seen, used, owned, and dissassembled sleeves from literally every manufacturer in the industry. Some are made very similarly, others are quite unique. Yes, they will all keep the teeth from poking you full of holes (usually) but they all feel, function, and hold up completely differently.
> If you use any piece of equipment often, it makes all of the difference in the world how it was made, how it feels, how it functions, how it holds up to lots of abuse, how the handle is angled in relation to the bite bar, where the hinge sits compared to the natural bend of your elbow, how the upper arm cuff interferes with the natural movement of the sleeve, how the cover fits.....I could go on and on, but for 100% sure...............IT MATTERS!!!!!!
> and for the record, i have had dogs go through some sleeves and puncture my skin. (I would stay away from Active dogs sleeves)


If Chris's boys can use those moving company surplus bitesuits......


You make sleeves sound so esoteric Mike, have you ever been involved in sales in any capacity


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Mike is right about what he stated. 

Toran the reason I know alot about sleeves, is because I got burned more times than I can count. I or our club have bought sleeves over the internet or better yet from Europe ....only to find out the sleeve is not what we want, too tight or just a plain POS..The shipping cost back to Europe is outrageous...a lesson learned. I speak about certain sleeves is due to I hope people don't make the same mistakes I made. 

I only buy from companies that have a good customer service, the companies that support dog sports organizations here in the US and even better make their own product here in the USA! 

Chris since you live in VA, why don't you make a trip and visit signature K9 and look at teir sleeves or better yet see and find out if they are vending anywhere in VA and see if they can bring some sleeves
to take a look at. Best of luck in your search. Every body likes something different and all that matters if you feel comfortable with the sleeve and you like it.

Mario


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