# Balabanov DVDs



## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

I don't think we've had a discussion thread around Balabanov's popular DVDs on sport obedience...hoping to get some perspectives.

For those who have seen them...

1. What did you like?
2. What did you learn?
3. What didn't you like?
4. What did you implement?
5. What difficulties did you have?
6. What changes did you see in your dog?
7. How influential are "his" methods in the sport world?


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I really like the tapes. The first tape, Clear Communication was kinda boring to watch at first because much of the information I had already learned at K-9 School, but I found myself going back and reviewing several times after watching The Game. The Game was great ! Very easy to understand and impliment, used it to teach my bitch Level III obedience very easily at less then a year old.

I learned that handler position/action should never matter to a dog concerning commands - from the beginning one should teach the dog the command is all that matters. I also learned that if you use his methods, there is no need in teaching motion commands - they will already know them. I learned how to teach a reliable out without using the yank and crank method  I also learned that proofing with distractions is vital in the learning process.

Not that I did not like it, but I personally won't use a tug again when teaching a young pup obedience using The Game - I prefer to use a kong on a rope.

As for what I implemented - All of it, except to my regret I did not use the "International" about turn ....but I will with my next pup. I regret not doing it with my bitch, but live and learn.

As for changes I saw in my dog - well, I started her out using this method so she has known no other. But I have seen the results of dogs that learned by using some of the more traditional methods and then tried The Game and the difference is like night and day. The biggest difference I saw was the dog and handler actually appeared to be enjoying themselves out on the field versus dreading the whole process. 

As for how influential Ivans methods are: I know alot of people have the tapes and are using his methods. In all honesty though I don't think he "invented" the theory behind The game. He just made it understandable for those of us who need the visual aspect and a method to implement. I for one appreciate him sharing his methods (yeah, I know he is making big bucks) and applaud him for his accomplishments in the sport world. Can't wait to see what he will acccomplish in Mondio


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

They are a good start for beginners, I know that "the game" has produced some interesting moments with dogs for him. Buko let me get about three misses before he bit me the first time.

It is a good method, and I think that is something that we really lack here in this country is a method. Too many different theorys on training and it makes for messy training and a LCK of method.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> Can't wait to see what he will acccomplish in Mondio


is that "official"? i had heard he going to do mondio, then i heard he was going to stay with SchH. do you know for sure which it is?


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I just got done doing obedience with my bitch and thought of another thing that I learned how to teach from the tape - FOCUS. Never wanted my PSD to be looking at me when given the command to heel (not practical or safe) so I had no clue how to teach my sport dog how to do this. I watched others while they spit hotdogs from their mouth , or placed tugs under their left arm, or ball under chin and I thought these methods were pretty good for tricking the dog into looking in the general direction of a person's eyes. The people that I watched (at my club) did not have a release command. I saw very easily, by watching the tape that this causes the sign tracking and very often the hander rewarding the dog for incorrect focus. I like how he teaches it - so that the dog is actually looking directly into your eyes and the reward can be anywhere ie., on the ground, in your hand etc.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Tim, given that he did not enter this years AWMA Nationals and held a Mondio/IPO Trial at his club in December, I was thinking the rumors were true. *No, I did not hear it from Ivan's mouth so it is not official.* I personally hope he continues to do IPO - I would love to compete against him one day


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

well i know he had some political problems with the AWMA, so i wasn't sure how much of him not competing had to do with that or the fact he was truly done with the sport...


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Great post, Lacey, thanks. Others who have seen the tapes? I appreciate this feedback.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

How do you hold a Mondio/IPO trial?


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> How do you hold a Mondio/IPO trial?


hoola hoops and trial sleeves of course...


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

:lol: :lol: :lol: Okay as you might have guessed that should have been typed Modio & IPO trial :wink: Now back to the posters original questions:



Woody Taylor said:


> I don't think we've had a discussion thread around Balabanov's popular DVDs on sport obedience...hoping to get some perspectives.
> 
> For those who have seen them...
> 
> ...


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## Dan Reiter (May 12, 2006)

His methods are straight forward based on basic animal learning (which he makes no claims to inventing) however his understanding and application in dog training is simple and easy to understand. I worked my dog three different occasions this past year with Ivan he is my personal preference. I doubt you could find many people with his experience in understanding and reading dogs.

PS Woody since your in Minneapolis area I will invite you to the Uof M
and you can see his methods in use. Thats are training area for winter.

I also have a sleeve for you!!.

Dan Reiter


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Dan Reiter said:


> PS Woody since your in Minneapolis area I will invite you to the Uof M
> and you can see his methods in use. Thats are training area for winter.
> 
> I also have a sleeve for you!!.
> ...


???? Dan, have we met? Are you with MVSV?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Our club's training is very similar to Balabanov's methods. 
I've see extreme turnarounds with compulsion trained dogs that heeled with their head down, tails tucked, etc, Even our bite work is all motivational and dogs that have come to the club with chewy, nervous bites have made 180 turn arounds within a month. 
One thing we do different is NO compulsion teaching the out. 
Even with adult dogs we teach it with Ivan's lockup method that he uses on puppies.
As far as his influence in the training world, I think most still don't believe that you can use many of these methods on serious, tough dogs. 
After 40+ yrs of yank and crank, it was, and still is hard/different for me but I totally believe in it.


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## Dan Reiter (May 12, 2006)

Woody
I dont believe we have met, yes I am with MVSV Ivan was there and then at Fox Valley Police & Schutzhund here in Wisconsin April and September.
Fox Valley has him scheduled for April and is planning on another 4-5
sessions thru out 2007 year.

Dan

I am supposed to be training at Midwest ring sport tommorow (but my back currently is saying (dont do it). They have all venues open tommorow (a lot of different helpers).


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Dan Reiter said:


> Woody
> I dont believe we have met, yes I am with MVSV .


Hey, sent you a PM. Good to meet you. Dennis kept Annie a few times. I came out to an MVSV session last summer, very nice group of people. Except for the guy who said the only people who come online in dog forums are the ones that don't train their dogs. :twisted: :lol: Wasnt' quite sure how to respond to that...

And thanks for the feedback on the DVDs. I'm enjoying them so far.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Bob, looks like he appears to making a seminar stop in St. Louis the last weekend in March, though I don't see any specifics. Know anything? 

http://www.malinois.com/otvitosha/seminars.htm


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Bob, looks like he appears to making a seminar stop in St. Louis the last weekend in March, though I don't see any specifics. Know anything?
> 
> http://www.malinois.com/otvitosha/seminars.htm


No but I'm sure gonna find out about it. 
Thanks Maren!


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I like his DVDs. I am training my female GSD with his methods and everything is coming up roses.

I did notice in his DVDs one thing that was never mentioned and I thought very interesting. When a dog had done something wrong like the long down or recall from the long down. When he did go back to pick the dog up to start over, he would take the dog back to the start with the dog on his right side not left side. I see this as another way of telling the dog that he had done wrong. 
I have and have told my group to do this. The dogs seem to understand their mistake better and will learn quicker from their mistake. Just food for thought.


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## Dan Reiter (May 12, 2006)

Ivan has a "bite work video" comming out last he told me was still working on verbage. I am sure it should be good.

The only thing I would caution on his seminars (if you happen to go out after training with him) he is known to pull some stunts. We were all at restraunt he told waiter that is was both mine and his girl freinds birthday
(assured me & her to go along with as all would get free drinks). Well after the required dancing on chairs (she got cake in face I was quicker ducking so it missed) and no free drinks.

Dan Reiter


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Off topic--Dan, my club cancelled training today, currently driving up 35 to check out that ring club...


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## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

> I did notice in his DVDs one thing that was never mentioned and I thought very interesting. When a dog had done something wrong like the long down or recall from the long down. When he did go back to pick the dog up to start over, he would take the dog back to the start with the dog on his right side not left side. I see this as another way of telling the dog that he had done wrong.
> I have and have told my group to do this. The dogs seem to understand their mistake better and will learn quicker from their mistake. Just food for thought.


[/quote]

Interesting you point this out Jerry, I did this , more by accident then anything else, en I noticed a different response to my correction and have done this ever since. It is as if you reinforce to the dog that there is a difference, not part of the exercise but a correction?
Robert


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Bob, looks like he appears to making a seminar stop in St. Louis the last weekend in March, though I don't see any specifics. Know anything?
> 
> http://www.malinois.com/otvitosha/seminars.htm


Looks like the St. Louis Schutzhund Assoc is sponsoring the 2007 AWDF Championships and Team Challeng on Mar 29-April 1.
Looks like Ivan is a competitor at this event. Not a seminar.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Maren Bell Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Bob, looks like he appears to making a seminar stop in St. Louis the last weekend in March, though I don't see any specifics. Know anything?
> ...


so much for the mondio thing...


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Great catch Jerry - I definitely missed that one. I have about wore my tapes out constantly going back and reviewing - wish I would have waited for the DVD's  

Thanks for the info about his upcomming bite work video Dan. I also hope he puts out another one for obedience to include the jumps and send out.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I was waiting for the AWMA to list the competitors they are sending to the AWDF - guess I don't have to wonder about him anymore. Oh and he is still on the board of directors for AWMA  This is a good thing (him competing in the AWDF again) I'll definitely be cheering for him and hope he goes on to take first place at the 2007 FMBB.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> Looks like Ivan is a competitor at this event. Not a seminar.


so much for the mondio thing...[/quote]

I think that's right, that he is transitioning into Ring stuff to some extent. Mark Keating, my TD from Red Star, is going down to work with him (decoying for Ring, etc.) in FL this spring. For what it's worth.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, darn it! Why'd he get our hopes up by putting on the seminar section?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Well, darn it! Why'd he get our hopes up by putting on the seminar section?


If you're referring to the Ring stuff, I really don't know the extent of it, just heard that secondhand yesterday from Mark. Irina (Red Star owner) also mentioned he's picked up a showline GSD that he's really excited about training up (personally), not sure if that's for IPO or what. But a fun anecdote. Also heard he had a bitework disc coming out (did I already mention that in this thread?).

You really see the power of this stuff, it's helped me a load with communication already, and pointed out yet a few more dozen things I have messed up along the way. I was way to quick to reward without a bridge, etc. Really want to start out a puppy doing this. Irina's got this 14 wk Mal pup that is amazing...I will try to get pictures, they've really got her jacked up with the game stuff.

Nice feedback, Jerry and Robert, on the "corrective" walk-back. I had not noticed it until you mentioned it. Fun. Kind of surprised they don't mention it explicitly in Disc 1, they seem to be very granular (in a good way) about everything.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Can't give all you secrets out. :lol: I'm sure there are other things that just haven't been noticed yet.


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