# Remotes..Training and stim types



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Im trying to get a discussion going on how people use there remotes and what type of stims they use in what circumstances or do you always use the one type of stim.

I know this is a broad subject and maybe hard to cover so even if you have had success doing something in particular for an exercise please add it and i know there is difficulty in relavance to differnt types of dogs and different behaviours you might be trying to train or proof.

Example for instance your teaching a down stay and dog breaks how do YOU correct do you nick him and start over or do u hold a lower level constant till back in position....what has worked for you?


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Usually I'm at a low level constant... On until the dog is correct. I use nick for outing, or getting dirty when guarding/escorting. I use vibrate as a positive mark.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Hunter Allred said:


> Usually I'm at a low level constant... On until the dog is correct. I use nick for outing, or getting dirty when guarding/escorting. I use vibrate as a positive mark.


ditto here mostly


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

do you think the low constant is strong enough for breaking say a long down which say in competition is pass or fail...


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

brad robert said:


> do you think the low constant is strong enough for breaking say a long down which say in competition is pass or fail...


it *can* be plenty strong enough. Thats why a dogtra has a dial instead of 128 buttons. If you break a down and start heading to me, the stim has a tendency to increase in intensity and decrease as you go back where you came from....


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Brad, please get some local help. You are about to F your dog up real good listening to this advise. For instance, no one here has told you how to introduce your dog to the collar so he understands what the stim means. What happens when you press the continuous button and the dog starts running away? What happens when the dog becomes aggressive and comes at you? What happens if the dog makes superstitious association and starts doing an unwanted behavior or avoids the wanted behavior? Unless you understand what to do in all of those circumstances, you need to have someone there that does. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

this thread is too vague imo

- the points Christopher brings up seem valid to me

- i also think you have to take training philosophy into consideration.
it's a training tool, so an Ecollar will always be used according to the person's training philosophy and especially how consistently their philosophy is being applied

- conditioning to a collar will set the tone for how effective it will be 

- the patience of the user will also come into play big time

- how heavy handed the user is will also come into play

- i use a lead differently than other people might use it, and that may not be easy to see if someone is watching because their training philosophy will affect what they see. the same applies to an Ecollar because it is even harder to see the cause and effect

- i realize this probably comes across as a bunch of rambling opinions, but it's hard for me to put in words. overall i like em but since they have a lot of power i think they require a lot of finesse to be used effectively and be crystal clear to the dog
- the other extreme to me would be to think of it as a "go to" hammer when needed

...and of course others will say exactly the opposite //lol//


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> Brad, please get some local help. You are about to F your dog up real good listening to this advise. For instance, no one here has told you how to introduce your dog to the collar so he understands what the stim means. What happens when you press the continuous button and the dog starts running away? What happens when the dog becomes aggressive and comes at you? What happens if the dog makes superstitious association and starts doing an unwanted behavior or avoids the wanted behavior? Unless you understand what to do in all of those circumstances, you need to have someone there that does.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App





rick smith said:


> this thread is too vague imo
> 
> - the points Christopher brings up seem valid to me
> 
> ...


I agree


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Hey Chris chill mate !! im not after advice!! im trying to see wht others do as very few in my region use them ,i do what works for me from several yrs of experience and being taught and it works well.

Im familiar with introducing the collar and what you spoke off most off i never have a problem with 

Im not asking for help im just fishing for how others work it.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

rick smith said:


> this thread is too vague imo
> 
> - the points Christopher brings up seem valid to me
> 
> ...


Rick i agree it is vague but i stated that from the start 

i appreciate your thoughts and no it wasnt rambling


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Hunter Allred said:


> it *can* be plenty strong enough. Thats why a dogtra has a dial instead of 128 buttons. If you break a down and start heading to me, the stim has a tendency to increase in intensity and decrease as you go back where you came from....


I have never seen a dog return to where he came from...but i see your logic about what you saying


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

brad robert said:


> I have never seen a dog return to where he came from...but i see your logic about what you saying


If the dog interprets the stim as "you're doing it wrong", and understand what correct is/was, they will. This is because they *chose* to be wrong. The increased stim is sometimes needed if the decision to be wrong is due to drive overruling their decision to be/stay correct. If you stim and they don't, you've skipped some part of the learning process with the dog

To the OP, I use Lou castles method


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Hunter Allred said:


> If the dog interprets the stim as "you're doing it wrong", and understand what correct is/was, they will. This is because they *chose* to be wrong.



That is one hell of a giant assumption on your part!


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Hunter yes i think i get what you are saying with some exercises the dog will go back to where he should hae been for example positions etc but i havent seen a dog break a down then go oh shit i was over there and go sit back in the same area and lay down again,now maybe some have i just havent.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> That is one hell of a giant assumption on your part!


Which part?


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

brad robert said:


> Hunter yes i think i get what you are saying with some exercises the dog will go back to where he should hae been for example positions etc but i havent seen a dog break a down then go oh shit i was over there and go sit back in the same area and lay down again,now maybe some have i just havent.


Well, I'll add this... If my dogs break a down and come to me or down closer/etc, regardless of the tool, I usually put them on my non-heeling side (no command) and walk them back where they came from... Whether that is 100 feet or 1 inch. So if they break a down and I say "no, go back" they go back and down. So when they know they broke the down and screwed up, they know I'm taking them back there anyway, and that's I'm sure part of the reason if mine break a down and the stim turns on, they return there to turn it off.


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