# Vet Techs



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Do you allow your vet tech, or vet for that matter, to correct on "punish" your dog or puppy when shots or exams are given? The animal acts up from fear or growls and the tech muzzle grabs or smacks the animal.](*,)


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

absolutely not.
i always check out a vet b4 i ever bring a dog there.
i then bring a dog who needs nothing from the vet just to condition the dog (or pup) to the place and see how the staff can handle the dogs (or cats) who come in
even applies to a client's dog i may have to bring in.

ALL restraining and control of the dog will be by me alone. vet techs are not needed and rarely know how to handle dogs anyway. they are more concerned with how fast they can get the dog in/out...at least that has been my experience

with that said, i almost never have a problem with vet visits because everything is crystal clear up front and there are plenty to choose from that are happy to take my money 

is there any other way ??


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

The techs I've experienced were very soft and gentle which I see as fine with the family pet ("where dogs are people, too!") but my dogs being a bit on the rambunctious side tended to sorta haul them around and wiggle out of their hold. I usually end up holding my own dogs (I take the head, you take the butt if you want). All the corrections came from me 'cause I would haul them up short while the tech was telling me "it's o.k....." when it's not.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

some of the worst vets and techs for handling family dogs that i have seen have been the Army types who handle our mwd's. not that i haven't seen some good ones over the years, but just saying i have seen my share of bad ones too. since they are not running a business for profit, when they are bad they are really bad and don't seem to care about their customers. they are often the ones who like to "remind" customers their primary job is to care for mwd's, even tho most of their routine business comes from military family pets ](*,)
- i don't think it has much to do with the type of dogs they deal with. ime, it has more to do with how well they understand dogs in general and how much patience they have.
- i can also understand they deal with a lot of clueless owners, and probably feel they aren't in the training business, but i've often wondered how they get trained in this area in the first place, since there will always be dogs and pups that they DO have to deal with on a regular basis that have a conditioned aversion to vet visits

- anyway, to me the responsibility and accountability at a vet clinic should be a shared one


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

My dogs rarely see a vet but when they have, I handle them. Whatever position they need the dog in, I put them there either verbally or physically--even for x-rays. I would go ballistic if someone else corrected my dog. My general rule of thumb is to make sure they are trained for the situation to make it easy and so I don't lose it with someone for doing something stupid.

T


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## Elaine Matthys (May 18, 2008)

I generally handle my own dogs and I left a clinic that not only didn't allow that but seriously over restrained my dogs that didn't need it. I have a great clinic now and they are more than happy to let me handle my demon spawn, especially when I explain I may need to adjust his attitude and would they please step back as needed. He wouldn't dare give me any lip, but he would eat them for touching him.


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## Pamela Spink (Jan 11, 2014)

No, I wouldn't tolerate that and they'd get a "punishment" for doing so. (One already has, I'm not a customer of theirs anymore.) 
One of my dogs is not fond of being inside, or of strange people, and has a very short warning before a bite. I do all the handling and have a basket muzzle ready in case it is needed. The tech tried to take him into the back once, I warned her that was a bad idea. Heard a lot of scratching, screaming, and swearing, they brought the dog back in seconds and asked me to hold him for the blood draw. 
My other three couldn't give a hoot who handled them in the vet's office, but after that visit with the scaredy dog, they allow me to restrain all my dogs. That must be written in their records, I don't go inf very often.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Pamela
re : "One of my dogs is not fond of being inside, or of strange people, and has a very short warning before a bite. I do all the handling and have a basket muzzle ready in case it is needed."

once you decide to join the WDF and post a bio, please expand on this and you might be able to get some help here. i'm assuming it's undesirable and something you are working on.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

rick smith said:


> *some of the worst vets and techs for handling family dogs that i have seen have been the Army types who handle our mwd's.* not that i haven't seen some good ones over the years, but just saying i have seen my share of bad ones too. since they are not running a business for profit, when they are bad they are really bad and don't seem to care about their customers. they are often the ones who like to "remind" customers their primary job is to care for mwd's, even tho most of their routine business comes from military family pets ](*,)
> - i don't think it has much to do with the type of dogs they deal with. ime, it has more to do with how well they understand dogs in general and how much patience they have.
> - i can also understand they deal with a lot of clueless owners, and probably feel they aren't in the training business, but i've often wondered how they get trained in this area in the first place, since there will always be dogs and pups that they DO have to deal with on a regular basis that have a conditioned aversion to vet visits
> 
> - anyway, to me the responsibility and accountability at a vet clinic should be a shared one


One of Sali's littermates got washed out of training for this exact reason dude, he nailed the vet tech.
Probably there were other issues I would say, but apparently this ^^ was the primary reason.

Another vet backed one of my dobes off the table when she was like 12 weeks, stupid ****head, so now I always do the handling in the vets, sometimes they get right noidy about it so I just say it's for their safety and they shut up.


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## Tom Connors (Dec 30, 2012)

I handle my dogs at the vet. The vet techs just stand there.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

getting back to your Q's Howard ....
fwiw
1. i've never seen a vet or a vet tech smack a dog.
2. seen a few "muzzle grabs" that resulted in bites tho 

i gave my vet buddy a set of Hexarmor guantlet gloves for the holidays and he says they have come in very handy .... for cats //lol//
...also used them to relocate a mamushi that tried to move in to his back yard

have you seen a vet or a tech smack a dog ?


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Absolutely not. They all know the training I do and that them hitting my dog could be interpreted differently by them. They don't request me to muzzle mine either.

On of our vet techs trains her dobes with me though so that helps with understanding.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

so how many of you have seen vets or techs smacking a dog in their clinic ?

as usual, i could be very wrong, but i just don't believe this is a common problem in vet clinics.
i also don't see much of what you might refer to as "punishment" being dished out either

maybe what i dislike about the way some vets and techs handle dogs is not what others are talking about ???

fwiw, i dislike people who bring an animal into a vet clinic that they can't control as much as i dislike vets who mishandle animals


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I had a new tech muzzle grab my puppy during his first exposure for shots and the general office visit. Guessing she "thought" this was the area to "control" the animal from...

Muzzle grabs are a natural correction point in the K-9 world. To grip a 14 week old puppy here only sends a wrong message to something that doesn't know the rules. I hold the collar and with the other hand freeflow diced hotdogs to it while the vet is giving shots. I also start verbal marker training with it using YES and GOOD to mark behaviors I want to see on the bench.

I have never had to muzzle or medicate any of my dogs and it's the reason I handle them! \\/


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## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

I handle my own dogs when they go to the vet. I find it keeps any potential problems to a minimum. If a vet tech smacked my puppy I would be livid. LIVID.

The worst experience I have ever had with a vet was when I took in my DS/Airedale cross. The room was tiny to begin with and the table was right in the center. The dog and I were waiting for the vet to come back after the exam and he walks in with 3 techs who all quickly descend on the dog and I and the vet moves to try and grab the dog by the back legs. The dog was building to a reaction and I was able to step in and get everyone to step back. The vet was going to give my dog a shot without even speaking with me about it! Anyway, got the dog on the table after agreeing to the shot, told him to down, and I was holding him. The male vet tech came up and tried to get involved and wanting to muscle the dog around. I had to tell him to back off way too many times for him to finally get that he was not helping but that he was gonna get bit. It was ridiculous. I never went back.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

We handle our dogs at the vets but I have to say with our younger GSD who could carry a hedgehog around without feeling the pain but was a wimp when pain was administrated to him, our vet took him outside to do injections - lifted him up by his hind legs and whoops the injection was over before the dog had noticed.

Once, when the elder GSD was on the table, he started growling. We and our friend, the vet, turned around and saw a young assistant staring at the dog. Our vet said "never do that to such a machine".

It's really good to have a vet that understands our dogs (he sniffs, feels and delivers a verdict). Such vets are seldom today - most rely on theoreical experience.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Gillian Schuler said:


> It's really good to have a vet that understands our dogs (he sniffs, feels and delivers a verdict). Such vets are seldom today - most rely on theoreical experience.


Gillian this is the point I made with my vets...you understand medicine, but I understand working dogs and MY DOG. I've never had a vet get bitten by one of my dogs...not even close.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Do you allow your vet tech, or vet for that matter, to correct on "punish" your dog or puppy when shots or exams are given? The animal acts up from fear or growls and the tech muzzle grabs or smacks the animal.](*,)


the first dog i ever had was a male Pembroke Welsh Corgi. on our first vet trip with our 10 week old puppy the vet received an unfriendly welcome--uncooperative patient, avoidance, and the baring of little tiny teeth--and took our puppy in the back room to administer the battery of shots and weigh him. i was 9, and my Mom hadn't owned a dog for awhile so neither of us questioned our Veterinarian. three days later we took Martin to enroll him in puppy Kindergarten and the trainer asked us what had happened to him. when we seemed confused the lady became quite upset and said "Well somebody shook this puppy until he got two black eyes so I'll ask you again, what happened to him?" and we were horrified because WE hadn't even gone so far as to scold him for nipping when he tried to herd us. both of my brothers were away at school, and there was nobody else in the household...my Mom called the Vet and confronted him and he basically implied that grabbing a naughty puppy by the nape and shaking it was the appropriate course of action. if we weren't going to lay down the law, he felt it well within his rights to do so.
OF COURSE: we never went to his practice again and we told our horror story to everyone at the training club, but some more savvy dog people already knew our ex-Vet by reputation and weren't surprised by what we had to say. our dog remained forever difficult for any/all Veterinarians but he was a small dog, so it wasn't impossible to muzzle and restrain him. his bad attitude seemed nearly justified to me.
ever after this childhood experience, i have handled my own dog at the Vet's. my current dog is actually naturally unobservant of pain and handles the shot part of the exam just fine...it's the physical contact from strangers that we struggle with, and i feel it would be more unpleasant for her if i weren't there to hold onto her and wax enthusiastic about her staying still. nobody has ever been displeased by me taking over the task of restraining my own animal, but i have still parted ways with a Vet because she was afraid of my 8 month old puppy just for being a German Shepherd.
LLOONNNGGGGG response, sorry about another one of those


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

anyone subscribe to this theory ?

the amount of control an owner has over their dog inside a vet clinic is directly proportional to the amount of control the owner has over it in other places


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## Emmie Lieberman (Mar 11, 2013)

Vet tech here. I would have to disagree with the poster who said most techs aren't needed and don"t know what they are doing. The majority of the people on here may be able to handle their dogs. A great deal of the public can not. Once the doctors and I get to know a client we may let them hold their animal for an exam. If somebody walks in exclaiming that they can handle their dog we have no reason to believe them. Owners handling their own animals leads to many bites.

As for correcting an animal- I don't feel that is our place. I would not return to a practice that corrected one of my animals.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

-- glad you checked in Emmie. 

"I would have to disagree with the poster who said most techs aren't needed and don"t know what they are doing." 
-- i missed that post...who said it ?

"The majority of the people on here may be able to handle their dogs. A great deal of the public can not." 
-- hard to confirm this, but i'll defer based on your experience 

"Once the doctors and I get to know a client we may let them hold their animal for an exam." 
-- what tests of owner control do they have to pass b4 you might let them handle their own dog ? plse be specific, because my guess is it's more like if the dog makes frequent visits that don't cause problems you then decide they can handle their own dogs 

"If somebody walks in exclaiming that they can handle their dog we have no reason to believe them."
-- or doubt them, and if it' a new dog u haven't seen b4 you should be able to assess this safely without getting bitten 
-- you have implied you have a set policy that owners can't handle their own dogs without some sort of approval. do you deal mostly with pets from clueless owners ?

"Owners handling their own animals leads to many bites."
-- and so can poor handling by vets and techs  (over restraining, going to work without giving the dog time to settle, etc etc ) 
-- but imo the worst part is that poor handling can actually create a problem in and of itself. dog is conditioned that vet visits are hell :-(
-- trust me, i have worked with MANY dogs that have been conditioned this way

"As for correcting an animal- I don't feel that is our place. I would not return to a practice that corrected one of my animals."
-- imo it should be your place, starting with a simple refusal to allow a dog jump up all over the vet or you (the tech), which is one of the most common behavioral problems i see in vet clinics. spoiled dog jumps all over and the vet and techs praise it to high heaven and make it worse. i could list a lot of other problems that can easily be corrected, but my point is, a correction doesn't mean smacking a dog or physically striking it, and i feel strongly a vet SHOULD provide advice on how to improve the behavior of their customers' dogs. if they had more training in this area, they would probably do a better job at it, but many don't seem to get much and aren't good at it. in my years of visiting vet offices behavior has always been one of the weakest areas i see in vets, and that is not saying that there aren't some knowledgeable ones out there because there is.

anyway, my Q's for you :
1. about how often do you have owners who bring a dog in to get conditioned to the standard vet visit and meet your staff b4 they actually need to be seen for a treatment ? 
2. i suspect the number is very low, but on the assumption that some actually DO, what were some of the best you experienced, and how would you recommend owners go about doing it ?
3. what type of training do the techs get in your clinic on how to control dogs during visits and who gives it ?

........ these are the roots of the problem imo, and you are the perfect person to help


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## Emmie Lieberman (Mar 11, 2013)

rick smith said:


> -- glad you checked in Emmie.
> 
> "I would have to disagree with the poster who said most techs aren't needed and don"t know what they are doing."
> -- i missed that post...who said it ?
> ...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

for everyone
it goes without saying that a muzzled dog cannot bite anyone. other animal/handler/vet or tech


all vets should consider a muzzle policy and it should be clearly stated and promoted it is the owner's responsibility to condition their dog to a muzzle. and simple enuff that any vet should be able to educate/explain how to do this

- it is a basic safety tool that doesn't get used enuff and if more vets would promote it owners might get over their ignorance, embarrassment and reluctance to use them
- and i am not talking about slipping a noose over the muzzle. have seen that in many vet clinics and it's a red flag for me


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

hope i don't have to also say a muzzle should fit properly and be securely fastened (no brainer)

i have been on the soapbox too many times about how i feel that a muzzle should be one of the first tools a dog learns to wear and how it is useful for many types of training besides muzzle fighting
- too many people have a hang up about muzzles and feel it is only necessary in emergencies ](*,)](*,)

- fwiw, i won't continue working with a customer who can't muzzle their dog or fails to condition it properly ... any breed, any temperament; no exceptions


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

most adults are muzzled.

anything older than 5-6 weeks I handle.

I AM a fan of the muzzle hold, especially for pulling out ear stitches on pups. its a headlock and muzzle hold..


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

I held my male while he had a catheter inserted to take a sample directly from his bladder for a culture (UTI/prostatic inflammation). No anesthesia, no restraints, no bites, no issues. The vet trusts and prefers I handle my dogs after that.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Emmie Lieberman said:


> Vet tech here. I would have to disagree with the poster who said most techs aren't needed and don"t know what they are doing. The majority of the people on here may be able to handle their dogs. A great deal of the public can not. Once the doctors and I get to know a client we may let them hold their animal for an exam. If somebody walks in exclaiming that they can handle their dog we have no reason to believe them. Owners handling their own animals leads to many bites.
> 
> As for correcting an animal- I don't feel that is our place. I would not return to a practice that corrected one of my animals.


Geeze...have to agree!

IMO most pet people can't handle their own dogs b/s they make them PEOPLE.
The fact that the VTs job is to assist the doctor and to keep them from getting tuned up during shots and exams is great. But when you have a high drive animal or one that has been imprinted from the start to NOT trust the vets office, now you have issues.

Putting working dogs in head locks, muzzle grabs, smacking it as if it were your own...I have issues with any practice that does this. Knowing the dog and handler AND working with them is what makes the total experience great. I trust my vet and those he has who work through the practice.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I muzzle my dog before walking in to the vet, and anybody asks I tell them the dogs is nice and social, it's for other stupid people/dogs safety. That sets the tone, and I don't get questioned much. They are more than happy to have me handle the dogs.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've always held my dogs be it the crazy little working terriers or my GSDs. 
One grumbles a bit when someone he doesn't know touches him at the vets but he and my vet know I'm in full control. 
When he was tattooed on the inside of his leg it was at a tattoo clinic given by the Golden Retriever folks. 
Never saw the vet, never saw the tech. The told me I couldn't handle him but the tech and he would be fine. 
Vet clicked the tattoo gun on and off and commented "see, he's fine". When he touched Thunder with the needle Thunder let out a roar and stood up on the table. Vet says "maybe you should hold him". I gave him a down and put my hand on his shoulder with a "knock it off" and he laid there for the tat. Growled a bunch but no movement from him.

Joby, I've pulled the stitches on a few Presa pup's ears. Muzzle hold by the breeder and I hold them between my legs. Piece of cake! :twisted:


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