# would you let your vet correct your WL puppy?



## Donna DeYoung

Today I took my 3 month WG WL GSD puppy (32 lbs) in for a set of shots. He is a happy going pup w/ an easy personality. He was just chilling there, happy to be with me. I asked them to clip his nails. Vet tech came in to take him "away". I said I wanted to go w/ him. I fed him treats as they did him and he was very good. 

Then vet came to exam room and during exam, wanted to look in his ears w her scope and he wanted nothing to do with it. He cried, whined, and wiggled. I see this as my fault, I should have been handling him for that. But what happened next I didn't like. My vet got in the pups face, said stern "no" and squished his muzzle/face with her hand.

I immediately told her I didn't want physical correction for my puppy. Then she gave me a lecture about how they wouldn't be able to handle him when he's older, he needs it for his health so they can ck him, blah blah blah. I tried to explain he's a sport dog but she has no idea what that is.

Then she laid him on the table to look in his ear and squashed him w/ her body. Done with that ear. I decided to show her I know a little about handling dogs at vet. I flipped him over and gently laid him down. She smirked and said "now you're dominating him" (I just wanted to get out of there as fast as I could). 

Would you let your vet physically correct a puppy? or would you find a new vet?

(This is a country vet I use for my pet/farm dogs. In the past I've used a city vet for my WL dogs - a vet that also handles police dogs, but I'm no longer taking my dogs into town during the week for training...so thought I could use this country vet).

I'm looking for a new vet. And I'll be working w/ my puppy's ears.


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## Lisa Radcliffe

No, No and NO and I would never have "flipped him over and gently laid him down" in that setting-


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## Jami Craig

I don't let the vet correct my dogs....ever....but he never would...which is why I've stayed with him.

My dogs are pretty vet friendly and are quite easy to manage for their exams as long as I'm supervising, the only thing I've ever had to address with the office has been with one of the techs who will pin a dog down who wiggles. If you pin my ACD it doesn't end well and it certainly won't get him to stop moving, even my mal (who's about as dominant as a potato...) is not going to be okay with being compressed in a tight hold. I requested no one ever do that, made sure that my stand command was solid and my dogs behave, and have had no issue since.

If the vet didn't respect your request to not correct my dogs and your dogs were not in the habit of misbehaving for the vet then I'd find a new vet. I also wouldn't let any vet take my dog out of my sight for something like nail trimming....

Find a new vet.....


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## Sara Waters

My thoughts are that if you dont want a vet manhandling your puppy then you need to train him thoroughly to deal with intimate handling of ears, eyes, rear end, feet etc. 
I also teach my dogs to lie down for examination which avoids the forcing or flipping of a dog into a prone position in that type of environment. I show my vet this when leaving them, so there is no flipping.

Vets have to protect themsleves and their staff against damage from dog bites and they if they dont know your dog I doubt they particularly care what you want. Most vets would deal with a range of pet dogs from well trained to poorly trained with all sorts of behavioural profiles and have probably heard all sorts of half truths from owners about their dogs behaviour. 

My vet is an excellent vet medically and she told me that she also does the muzzle hold thing with some dogs. 

As far as vets go I am much more interested in their diagnostic and medical competence as long as they dont do anything overtly bad with handling my dogs and so far they havent that I know of, none of my dogs mind going to the vet or have any changed behaviour when leaving the vet after surgery, so I assume all is good. I always ask if there were any problems and they always tell me they behave beautifully.


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## mel boschwitz

If my dog had offered a bite I wouldnt mind as much, but for something as simple as the wigglies on a young pup, I would never allow a vet to correct my dog. 

My vet laughs when my dogs get the wigglies. And then lets me deal with it. (And for anything else my dogs might do).

There are closer vets for me to use, but it's not worth it for me. Get a new vet.


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## Steve Estrada

Nobody corrects my dog first because I'm handling them & if the vet thinks they're going to tell you how to raise your dog, well I'd be out of there. Fortunately I have a great relationship with my vet & we talked before he ever handled my dogs. He trusts me also & wants me there, even when X-raying. Just gives me cover for the jewels \\/ plus he knows I will disagree on some issues. First it's my dog; Second I'm the customer; Third, just because they say so never flies with me without knowing for sure it's what I want & correct ](*,)


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Sara Waters said:


> My thoughts are that if you dont want a vet manhandling your puppy then you need to train him thoroughly to deal with intimate handling of ears, eyes, rear end, feet etc.
> I also teach my dogs to lie down for examination which avoids the forcing or flipping of a dog into a prone position in that type of environment. I show my vet this when leaving them, so there is no flipping.
> 
> Vets have to protect themsleves and their staff against damage from dog bites and they if they dont know your dog I doubt they particularly care what you want. Most vets would deal with a range of pet dogs from well trained to poorly trained with all sorts of behavioural profiles and have probably heard all sorts of half truths from owners about their dogs behaviour.
> 
> My vet is an excellent vet medically and she told me that she also does the muzzle hold thing with some dogs.
> 
> As far as vets go I am much more interested in their diagnostic and medical competence as long as they dont do anything overtly bad with handling my dogs and so far they havent that I know of, none of my dogs mind going to the vet or have any changed behaviour when leaving the vet after surgery, so I assume all is good. I always ask if there were any problems and they always tell me they behave beautifully.


I kinda agree with Sara in terms of training. But I never hand my leash over and NO ONE corrects my dog other than me. For me it doesn't matter that its a future sport puppy. I've dealt with the same vet for almost 25 years. He and I do all h work--no vet techs. Last time I was in with a puppy a couple of days old I was concerned about. We decided on sub-Q fluids. He sent a tech in and she was fumbling around. I said never mind, I'll do it and she gave me a look. I told her to go talk to vet and he'll okay it. Boy did she come back surprised. He's taught me alot over the years and knows when I walk in the door I've done hours worth of research on anything that comes up. We've always been a team. He has his part. I have my part. 

I don't put people in situations where they feel the need to correct or manage my dog because I do it. Some people are just impatient and down right afraid of different breeds so they want to come in and start manhandling right away. See this with different trainers as well. You have to train the pup for handling and be the one holding. If your vet doesn't agree, find a new one. 

T


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## susan tuck

Steve Estrada said:


> Nobody corrects my dog first because I'm handling them & if the vet thinks they're going to tell you how to raise your dog, well I'd be out of there. Fortunately I have a great relationship with my vet & we talked before he ever handled my dogs. He trusts me also & wants me there, even when X-raying. Just gives me cover for the jewels \\/ plus he knows I will disagree on some issues. First it's my dog; Second I'm the customer; Third, just because they say so never flies with me without knowing for sure it's what I want & correct ](*,)


Agree BIG time! 

I too have a great relationship with my vets, they trust me to handle my own dogs, and they wouldn't dream of doing what your vet did, let alone snatch the muzzle, simply not called for. 

Puppies are puppies, they wiggle, and just because they wiggle is no reason for any vet to take over the handling of a puppy.

I'd have a serious discussion with the vet and if she was unable to respect my wishes then I would find a new vet.


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## Elaine Matthys

I would never allow my vet to physically correct my dog for any reason, but then I would never let my dogs do anything that would force my vet to feel they needed to. I've worked in vet clinics before and the vast majority of dogs that come through are out of control and the owners clueless, so the vets frequently take the dog in the back so they can make the dog behave well enough to get whatever treatment they needed.

The clinic I go to, just this last summer had a bouv take a huge bite out of one of the vet's face. I'm told the vet wasn't doing anything but talking to the owner when the dog jumped her. This was a life altering bite as not only does she now have large scars across her face, but she is going to be mentally affected by dogs now. The dog was taken in the back and promptly put down.

It's this sort of thing and all the bad owners out there that can't control their dogs that causes vets to be sort of defensive about getting on dogs that need some manners - even workingline dogs - from an early age. It's the bad owners that make a problem for the rest of us.


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## Joby Becker

My vet only handles very small puppies of mine. for litter checks, I do my own shots and the like. except rabies. for litter checks I still hold the pups mostly, we work together.

I handle all of the dogs when I go to the vet. I go where the dogs go, I never hand the leash to anyone, 

If I have a dog in for surgery, I am with the dog when they get the sedative needed for them to be able to do whatever it is that they need to do, I walk the dog into the kennel, when the surgery is over, I retrieve the dog from the kennel. If it is xrays, I am helping position and hold the dogs. If the tiny pups need dew claws removed or tails docked, I am in there holding the little wigglers myself. we work together.

I always muzzle adult dogs, and if the dog is difficult or slightly aggressive, I hold them myself and calm them, half-nelson if needed.

one time I took a puppy in to get stitches out of his ear crop, the pup was less than 4 months but really aggressive. I took it to a vet that was closer..the girl came to get the dog, and I said I would bring it in the room..she resisted, I told her the puppy was pretty nasty and I should probably go in there to hold him..she said it was fine she would get another tech in there, no problems...I conceded, interested in how that would go...after a minute or two I here some kind of wierd puppy noises, and here a call for a tech to go to the exam room, two people went in there..shortly after that one person called to me to come in there..one girl had a bloodied, the others were standing there, the pup was on the table growling and bearing his teeth while the lady with the tweezers and scissors looked freaked out...I grabbed him, wrapped a hand around his muzzle, leaned into him to hold him and pushed on the back of his neck with the other hand to hold him steady, while the tech shakily took out the stitches...

They all told me they never saw a puppy like that in their life..I told them that I figured that would happen and that is why I wanted to go into the room in the first place, the girl says, I didnt think it was going to be a problem, please dont bring this dog back here anymore...which was fine with me...

I love my vet. he is very experienced with all types of dogs, does almost all the work with the k9's in the county, and lots of other working type dogs, and also works with large and small exotics and rescue exotics.


most of the dogs I have had are not too bad in the vet, but some have been for sure..


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## Bob Scott

I've been with the same vet for almost 40 yrs. We discuss everything he does or wants to do but the control is my job and he's more then happy with that. I trust him/he trusts me.
When he's not there I ask for his daughter, also a vet. Same deal with her. 
I would have a hard time seeing anyone correct my dogs. With one of the dogs I suspect that person would also have a hard time. :twisted:


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## Daniel Lybbert

I skipped most of the posts cuz I know what they say. I work with animals in somewhat of the same way. If you dont want some one dealing with your dog then you should have done it your self. Dont blame the guy he isnt a dog trainer he is a vet. You pay him to check his temp not train your dog.


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## Tracey Hughes

I agree with Daniel. I don't see the big deal honestly. That little bit of a correction wouldn't make any difference to the pup long term.


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## Gillian Schuler

Sara Waters said:


> My thoughts are that if you dont want a vet manhandling your puppy then you need to train him thoroughly to deal with intimate handling of ears, eyes, rear end, feet etc.
> I also teach my dogs to lie down for examination which avoids the forcing or flipping of a dog into a prone position in that type of environment. I show my vet this when leaving them, so there is no flipping.
> 
> Vets have to protect themsleves and their staff against damage from dog bites and they if they dont know your dog I doubt they particularly care what you want. Most vets would deal with a range of pet dogs from well trained to poorly trained with all sorts of behavioural profiles and have probably heard all sorts of half truths from owners about their dogs behaviour.
> 
> My vet is an excellent vet medically and she told me that she also does the muzzle hold thing with some dogs.
> 
> As far as vets go I am much more interested in their diagnostic and medical competence as long as they dont do anything overtly bad with handling my dogs and so far they havent that I know of, none of my dogs mind going to the vet or have any changed behaviour when leaving the vet after surgery, so I assume all is good. I always ask if there were any problems and they always tell me they behave beautifully.


I am *completely* in agreement here. My vet is also excellent medically.

I trust him completely. When our younger GSD needed an injection, I warned him how his pain threshold was. No problem he said "bring him outside" - said and done - he lifted the unsuspecting dog's hind legs high and shot him an injection - the dog didn't even know what happened. Our vet is a "hands on" vet and nothing fazes him.


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## susan tuck

Donna DeYoung said:


> Today I took my 3 month WG WL GSD puppy (32 lbs) in for a set of shots. He is a happy going pup w/ an easy personality. He was just chilling there, happy to be with me. I asked them to clip his nails. Vet tech came in to take him "away". I said I wanted to go w/ him. I fed him treats as they did him and he was very good.
> 
> Then vet came to exam room and during exam, wanted to look in his ears w her scope and he wanted nothing to do with it. He cried, whined, and wiggled. I see this as my fault, I should have been handling him for that. But what happened next I didn't like. My vet got in the pups face, said stern "no" and squished his muzzle/face with her hand.
> 
> I immediately told her I didn't want physical correction for my puppy. Then she gave me a lecture about how they wouldn't be able to handle him when he's older, he needs it for his health so they can ck him, blah blah blah. I tried to explain he's a sport dog but she has no idea what that is.
> 
> Then she laid him on the table to look in his ear and squashed him w/ her body. Done with that ear. I decided to show her I know a little about handling dogs at vet. I flipped him over and gently laid him down. She smirked and said "now you're dominating him" (I just wanted to get out of there as fast as I could).
> 
> Would you let your vet physically correct a puppy? or would you find a new vet?
> 
> (This is a country vet I use for my pet/farm dogs. In the past I've used a city vet for my WL dogs - a vet that also handles police dogs, but I'm no longer taking my dogs into town during the week for training...so thought I could use this country vet).
> 
> I'm looking for a new vet. And I'll be working w/ my puppy's ears.


Sounds like the bitch had an attitude towards you and your dog, she back talked you at every opportunity and completely ignored your wishes. Glad you're getting a new vet. This one apparently thinks she not only is a medical expert but also an expert in all things dogs, and obviously nothing could be further from the truth.

In my opinion the vet had a couple of options once you told her you didn't want her to correct your puppy. She could have either explained to you that's the way they do things in her practice and given you the opportunity to decide either to acquiesce, or take your business elsewhere, or she could have agreed to handle the pup in the manner you saw fit. By steamrolling over you, and then giving you her little smarmy "now your dominating him" comment she only proved she has a crappy attitude, oversteps, and has problems following direction. BIG red flags and good reasons to get the hell out of dodge and find a vet who is a better fit for you and your dogs.

Sounds like your intuition is telling you the same thing, since you're looking for a new vet. If you like your other vet, go to him/her, it may be a further drive, but if the person is not only a good diagnostician, but also someone you feel comfortable with and trust, is worth it.


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## Howard Gaines III

Vets usually know meds and what most dogs need for that area of the country, how many really know WORKING DOGS?

Second point, the dog belongs to me, if it NEEDS fixing I'LL DO IT! Ask before you try and screw my working dog up. The K-9 doctors I use all understand what I'm doing, the training I'm doing, and support me in THEIR office. This means NO VET TECHS holding my dog in a WWF headlock or playing 
K-9 trainer in their office.

BOTTOMLINE: You own it, call the shots!


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## Marcelo Villanueva

Donna DeYoung said:


> Today I took my 3 month WG WL GSD puppy (32 lbs) in for a set of shots. He is a happy going pup w/ an easy personality. He was just chilling there, happy to be with me. I asked them to clip his nails. Vet tech came in to take him "away". I said I wanted to go w/ him. I fed him treats as they did him and he was very good.
> 
> Then vet came to exam room and during exam, wanted to look in his ears w her scope and he wanted nothing to do with it. He cried, whined, and wiggled. I see this as my fault, I should have been handling him for that. But what happened next I didn't like. My vet got in the pups face, said stern "no" and squished his muzzle/face with her hand.
> 
> I immediately told her I didn't want physical correction for my puppy. Then she gave me a lecture about how they wouldn't be able to handle him when he's older, he needs it for his health so they can ck him, blah blah blah. I tried to explain he's a sport dog but she has no idea what that is.
> 
> Then she laid him on the table to look in his ear and squashed him w/ her body. Done with that ear. I decided to show her I know a little about handling dogs at vet. I flipped him over and gently laid him down. She smirked and said "now you're dominating him" (I just wanted to get out of there as fast as I could).
> 
> Would you let your vet physically correct a puppy? or would you find a new vet?
> 
> (This is a country vet I use for my pet/farm dogs. In the past I've used a city vet for my WL dogs - a vet that also handles police dogs, but I'm no longer taking my dogs into town during the week for training...so thought I could use this country vet).
> 
> I'm looking for a new vet. And I'll be working w/ my puppy's ears.


 
I really don't see what the problem is?

If a puppy or dog is going to be ruined by a vet having to restrain him once, twice, okay even 4 times a year...and is affected by it, in it's character, and it's work, then i would say you have a lot more issues with the puppy and it's temperament then with what the vet needed to do, to provide the puppy with appropriate care.

If a puppy/dog is that sensitive, the owner of such a puppy/dog will have a lot of work ahead of them.

Cheers,
Chello


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## susan tuck

Marcelo Villanueva said:


> I really don't see what the problem is?
> 
> If a puppy or dog is going to be ruined by a vet having to restrain him once, twice, okay even 4 times a year...and is affected by it, in it's character, and it's work, then i would say you have a lot more issues with the puppy and it's temperament then with what the vet needed to do, to provide the puppy with appropriate care.
> 
> If a puppy/dog is that sensitive, the owner of such a puppy/dog will have a lot of work ahead of them.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chello


The problem isn't whether or not that the pup is going to be "ruined" or even "affected". The problem is the owner told the vet to stop but the vet continued anyway. If an owner chooses to handle their own dog in a certain manner, that's the owners prerogative, and the veterinarian is free to tell her to take her business elsewhere if she feels her safety is in jeopardy or if she just flat out doesn't like the way the owner is handling the dog, but for the vet to continue to do the same thing, even when asked to stop by the owner of the dog, is wrong.


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## susan tuck

One more thing... 

I would have a real problem with anyone who would try to correct any of my dogs or my puppies without my express permission, and it has nothing to do with whether or not it would affect my dogs.
my dogs = my responsibility = my call.


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## Daniel Lybbert

> I would have a real problem with anyone who would try to correct any of my dogs or my puppies without my express permission, and it has nothing to do with whether or not it would affect my dogs.
> my dogs = my responsibility = my call.


That is fair. It is also your responsibility that your dog is never in the position to need or get a correction from someone else.


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## Marcelo Villanueva

> One more thing...
> 
> I would have a real problem with anyone who would try to correct any of my dogs or my puppies without my express permission, and it has nothing to do with whether or not it would affect my dogs.
> my dogs = my responsibility = my call


In my opinion and completely outside of this topic: If a dog is not behaving appropriately and is out in public, and enters my space or anyone's private space for that matter, I or whoever it's space the dog or puppy is in has the right to correct it.

I'm fine with people having the attitude you have, however i also see too many misbehaved dogs who have gotten away with too much. I see too many people elevating their dogs to a status above chidlren. 

I don't accept it...no one has too.


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## Joby Becker

daniel lybbert said:


> that is fair. It is also your responsibility that your dog is never in the position to need or get a correction from someone else.


+1



susan tuck said:


> one more thing...
> 
> I would have a real problem with anyone who would try to correct any of my dogs or my puppies without my express permission, and it has nothing to do with whether or not it would affect my dogs.
> My dogs = my responsibility = my call.


+1


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## susan tuck

Marcelo Villanueva said:


> In my opinion and completely outside of this topic: If a dog is not behaving appropriately and is out in public, and enters my space or anyone's private space for that matter, I or whoever it's space the dog or puppy is in has the right to correct it.
> 
> I'm fine with people having the attitude you have, however i also see too many misbehaved dogs who have gotten away with too much. I see too many people elevating their dogs to a status above chidlren.
> 
> I don't accept it...no one has too.


Accept WHAT behaviour and how do you go from not allowing other people to correct the dog to treating dogs like children? That's one hell of a leap! Anyway, I have no problem physically correcting my own dogs, but unless my dog is attacking you, you have no business ever touching my dog without my permission, let alone correcting it, and buddy I promise, you would regret it if you did.

This happened to a friend of mine. She has a rottie that hates having it's nails trimmed. Anyway she was at the groomers and they were working with the dog, when some yahoo who was waiting to pick up his own dog steps up and grabs the dogs collar and says he will control the dog. The dog bit him.


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## Marcelo Villanueva

> Accept WHAT behaviour? I do not treat my dogs like children, and I have no problem correcting my own dog, but unless my dog is attacking you, you have no business ever touching my dog without my permission, let alone correcting it, and and buddy I promise, you would regret it if you did.


Inappropriate behaviour. Behaviour i feel to be inappropriate....which is different for me, different to the next person, different to the next person, etc.

Relax Susan...

i'm generalizing...not talking about you or your dog(s), simply adding to your comments. 

However..lol....to add generalization to your comment again, if i did have cause to correct your dog i would NOT regret it. I've had to correct other peoples dogs (people didn't like it much) and i never regretted it .

Cheers,
Chello...


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## susan tuck

I do agree that there are people who are neurotic as hell, that treat their dogs like children, call them things like "furbaby" which is very weird and carries a huge ick factor, but even with those people, unless their dog is physically attacking you, you cannot step in and correct their dogs, and expect to get a very nice reception from the owner, unless the dog is attacking someone, it's really nobodies business how they choose to raise their animals.


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## susan tuck

Marcelo Villanueva said:


> However..lol....to add generalization to your comment again, if i did have cause to correct your dog i would NOT regret it. I've had to correct other peoples dogs (people didn't like it much) and i never regretted it .
> 
> Cheers,
> Chello...


Big talking guys like you crack me up, because you have no clue what you're talking about.


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## Marcelo Villanueva

susan tuck said:


> Big talking guys like you crack me up, because you have no clue what you're talking about.


ok 

Cheers,
Chello...


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## susan tuck

Marcelo Villanueva said:


> ok
> 
> Cheers,
> Chello...


Funny, the refrain from an old song is going through my mind after reading your posts..."macho macho man".........BAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!:-D:-D:-D


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## Joby Becker

Daniel Lybbert said:


> That is fair. It is also your responsibility that your dog is never in the position to need or get a correction from someone else.


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## Steve Estrada

I'm not letting anyone correct my dog as I said before, the reason is I'm "responsible" & advocate responsible ownership. I'm not correcting anyone else's dog unless it's to protect someone or myself & I'm not macho (anymore \\/ ). And yes their are a lot of jerk owners out there......JMHO 8)


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## John Campbell

susan tuck said:


> I do agree that there are people who are neurotic as hell, that treat their dogs like children, call them things like "furbaby" which is very weird and carries a huge ick factor, but even with those people, unless their dog is physically attacking you, you cannot step in and correct their dogs, and expect to get a very nice reception from the owner, unless the dog is attacking someone, it's really nobodies business how they choose to raise their animals.


While i agree with you in principle that if someone see's a behavior that they don't like and try's to correct your dog they are going to get a correction of their own and not like it one bit. But, this statement is all based off the responsibility of the owners. Much like children some people just let their animals do what ever the hell they want and do not care what impact it has on the people around them. If I'm sitting in the dog park and a dog is running around with no supervision and decides to hump my leg and the owner is to busy chatting up some hot dog mom and doesn't give a shit i will correct the hell out of that dog no problem. 

If the owner is being responsible i would never be in that situation because the correction would come before i realized what was going on.


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## susan tuck

John Campbell said:


> While i agree with you in principle that if someone see's a behavior that they don't like and try's to correct your dog they are going to get a correction of their own and not like it one bit. But, this statement is all based off the responsibility of the owners. Much like children some people just let their animals do what ever the hell they want and do not care what impact it has on the people around them. If I'm sitting in the dog park and a dog is running around with no supervision and decides to hump my leg and the owner is to busy chatting up some hot dog mom and doesn't give a shit i will correct the hell out of that dog no problem.
> 
> If the owner is being responsible i would never be in that situation because the correction would come before i realized what was going on.


I agree with you, if the dog attacks/molests/humps/jumps on you, and the owner doesn't take steps to stop the dog, of course, anyone would be within their rights to take action to stop the dog. 

If someone corrects someone else's dog just because the dog "enters their personal space" then I'd say the person doing the correcting was a jackass spoiling for a fight and would probably end up getting a nice correction himself/herself.

Incidentally after seeing the "dog parks" near where I lived in Southern California, I kind of thought what you describe as exactly the Dog Park purpose since all I pretty much ever saw in those places were a lot of people standing around gabbing while their dogs ran around pel mel like lunatics because their owners completely ignored them.


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## Sara Waters

John Campbell said:


> While i agree with you in principle that if someone see's a behavior that they don't like and try's to correct your dog they are going to get a correction of their own and not like it one bit. But, this statement is all based off the responsibility of the owners. Much like children some people just let their animals do what ever the hell they want and do not care what impact it has on the people around them. If I'm sitting in the dog park and a dog is running around with no supervision and decides to hump my leg and the owner is to busy chatting up some hot dog mom and doesn't give a shit i will correct the hell out of that dog no problem.
> 
> If the owner is being responsible i would never be in that situation because the correction would come before i realized what was going on.


Yes I agree. I had to protect my elderely (80+) mother from being knocked over by an out of control, zooming, very fast and solid staffy "just having fun". I blocked it the first time it looked like hurling itself at my mother and then whacked it with a ball thrower, when it came in again. That stopped it in its tracks. The young owner protested and I asked her how she would feel if her dog broke an elderely persons hip. She hadnt thought of that, that her staffys behaviour was very frightening and dangerous to older people. 

As to the vet, yeah you are the customer you can go where you want. Dont like, dont go back.

I cant say it bothers me to much if the vet needs to give my dog a correction working line or not, cant say I see much of a difference, I have working and non working line dogs and they all get trained the same way. I doubt they do with my dogs, but I dont know what goes on behind the scenes when I leave the dogs. 

I just have to trust in my own training and in my dogs. I actually like my vet from a medical perspective and unless my dog had behavioural problems that I was specifically dealing with I dont stress about the whole deal.


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## Nicole Stark

Wow this morphed into quite a lot of discussion that really didn't have a lot to do with the original question and where it took place. I would hope I'd have the presence of mind to properly control my dog for what ever exam or procedure was taking place. And if not, and a minor correction was needed by the vet to get the dog in check then so be it.

I won't comment on the other details the OP shared because what happens from here is really her business, not mine.


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## Karen M Wood

I will say as a former groomer for a vet office that the reason we took dogs from their owners was usually that the dog was aggressive with the owner fawning over the dog or freaking out "Because it had a bad experience elsewhere" But with the owner out of site the dog was fine. Sometime the owner only needed to step out of the dog's line of sight to behave better. Other dogs needed the owner or we would have a dangerous situation on our hands. Each dog is different. And the average owner is more of a hindrence then a help. 
If someone corrected my dog and it was justified, you will not hear screeching from me. 
so far i have not had this experience, my dogs are good. 
I did once have a new vet tech ask if my Bulldog Ivy needed a muzzle because she "Looked sorta like a pit bull" (american bulldog) I laughed and asked if she was really new? Because Ivy loved people no matter what you were doing to her.
Now in agreeing with the OP i do have a problem with female vets. So i only use a male vet that i have been working with for about 20 years now. Female vets and i clash. Not my dogs.


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## Christopher Jones

Marcelo Villanueva said:


> I really don't see what the problem is?
> 
> If a puppy or dog is going to be ruined by a vet having to restrain him once, twice, okay even 4 times a year...and is affected by it, in it's character, and it's work, then i would say you have a lot more issues with the puppy and it's temperament then with what the vet needed to do, to provide the puppy with appropriate care.
> 
> If a puppy/dog is that sensitive, the owner of such a puppy/dog will have a lot of work ahead of them.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chello


I tend to agree with you. I had my last litter at the vets a few weeks ago for their shots and when I was getting one of the males checked out he latched onto the Vets stethascope (sp), and he wouldn't let go and the vet was "correcting" him in an attempt to get him to let go. I wasn't fussed and neither was the pup. Heck if you worried about the vet correcting your dog I can't bare to think about how you worry when they jam the vacc and microchip needles into the back of the pups necks.


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## Carol Boche

A long time ago, when I first got into dogs I already had a vet that I thought was great, and he is, just not with working dogs. He didn't understand them and I think he was afraid of them actually. 

My Bloodhound was a DICK....in every sense of the word....he did not like his personal space invaded (except for me), he had issues with food, issues with "his cat" (omg...he loved the cat) and he had issues with people invading MY space. 

He was my managed dog....I managed all of his issues because he was a PHENOMENAL working hound, and after quite a bit of research, I learned that these behaviors are more common than not. I will say he got worse with age.....

I think (and maybe Connie or Bob remembers) that we had a thread here years ago that talked about this and it had so much GOOD information on finding a vet in it....I wish I would have bookmarked it....

First of all, remember that most vets don't handle working dogs, so I think it is important for people to make an appt without the dog first and just sit down and talk to your vet about what you are planning and what you expect. If they don't have the time to do this or they hurry you through the conversation then it probably is a good indicator that they are not going to be the vet for you and your WL dog. 

Before you go, make a list of questions that you want answered, ask for a tour of the facility and look for things like, cleanliness, how they handle other animals (if they are visible), pay attention to how all of the staff is, ask about their emergency call system and ask if you can call them anytime if you have an issue....I am in the middle of no where, so my new (well I have used him for years now) vet and I work together and I refresh train every year with my bloat kit, IV supplies, IV meds, wound care and staple gun and what not....all supportive care in case I need it and am hours from the office. 

Bottom line is 1) Do your research (on more than one vet) 2) YOU have to feel comfortable with the whole place or your dog is not going to be comfortable 3) teach your dog to be handled in ways that are not "normal" and 4) if the visit doesn't feel right or isn't what you want it to be, you have to be able to step in and be a voice for your dog.


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## Sara Waters

Why would working line dogs be so different? A specialist vet friend of mine does a lot of the police dog vet work and he finds that they are probably the least of his problems. He has had to deal with quite a few scary badly behaved, badly trained and badly bred large pet dogs coming in for ortho surgery. I remember watching him very effeciently handling a large aggressive pet rottie that wanted to snack on a waiting fluffy and my dog when the owner lost control.


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## Howard Gaines III

So if the vet can correct your dog without your blessing, then you should provide parking lot medical services and sell equipment at their expense.:mrgreen:

Susan I have to agree with your post...spot on!


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## Connie Sutherland

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/finding-good-vet-7881/
might be it, Carol.

or

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/just-me-21047/ ?


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## Lisa Radcliffe

Carol Boche said:


> A long time ago, when I first got into dogs I already had a vet that I thought was great, and he is, just not with working dogs. He didn't understand them and I think he was afraid of them actually.
> 
> My Bloodhound was a DICK....in every sense of the word....he did not like his personal space invaded (except for me), he had issues with food, issues with "his cat" (omg...he loved the cat) and he had issues with people invading MY space.
> 
> He was my managed dog....I managed all of his issues because he was a PHENOMENAL working hound, and after quite a bit of research, I learned that these behaviors are more common than not. I will say he got worse with age.....
> 
> I think (and maybe Connie or Bob remembers) that we had a thread here years ago that talked about this and it had so much GOOD information on finding a vet in it....I wish I would have bookmarked it....
> 
> First of all, remember that most vets don't handle working dogs, so I think it is important for people to make an appt without the dog first and just sit down and talk to your vet about what you are planning and what you expect. If they don't have the time to do this or they hurry you through the conversation then it probably is a good indicator that they are not going to be the vet for you and your WL dog.
> 
> Before you go, make a list of questions that you want answered, ask for a tour of the facility and look for things like, cleanliness, how they handle other animals (if they are visible), pay attention to how all of the staff is, ask about their emergency call system and ask if you can call them anytime if you have an issue....I am in the middle of no where, so my new (well I have used him for years now) vet and I work together and I refresh train every year with my bloat kit, IV supplies, IV meds, wound care and staple gun and what not....all supportive care in case I need it and am hours from the office.
> 
> Bottom line is 1) Do your research (on more than one vet) 2) YOU have to feel comfortable with the whole place or your dog is not going to be comfortable 3) teach your dog to be handled in ways that are not "normal" and 4) if the visit doesn't feel right or isn't what you want it to be, you have to be able to step in and be a voice for your dog.


Excellent Advice!


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## Amber Scott Dyer

I agree that the vet's attitude was the biggest problem.... 

Understand, though, that most vets have probably seen hundreds of dogs that the owner has absolutely no control over in their practice. I see puppies all the time - some that are big, dominant breeds, others that are little pis*ants - that I can tell from their first puppy visits are going to be a problem for the owners. I generally try to spend a few moments with those owners discussing puppy behavior and trying to send them to a trainer (as Jerry can tell you :mrgreen. Some of these people listen and follow up responsibly. A lot of them don't - and come back a year later with a dog that is a real problem. I know of one guy now who has an AB that he is considering euthanizing for aggression towards his wife because he didn't want to correct the dog because he wanted the dog to be confident and defend his property. No joke. There's another that the owner takes to pick up the kids from school every day and has to literally keep her windows up because the dog will lunge at children walking by (100lb designer breed dog). These dogs are liabilities for the owners, but also for the vets who already pay giant insurance fees every month due to the high number of workman's comp claims for that field.

Most people that work or train their dogs let you know from the beginning and are generally treated differently than pet owning clients - and those dogs are usually obviously better than the pets that come in.


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## Steve Estrada

I'm of the mind now that instead of euthanizing the dog we should euthanize some owners & if that flys maybe we could extend it to drivers on the hwy. [-o<


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## Carol Boche

Connie Sutherland said:


> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/finding-good-vet-7881/
> might be it, Carol.
> 
> or
> 
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/just-me-21047/ ?


Thank you!! :mrgreen:
I think it is the one from 2008 since I was not on here in 2011. The other one I think is over at the LB forum. That is a good one too.


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## Carol Boche

I think there is a big difference between the 

"oh fluffy foo foo is in a bad mood today and she's sorry if she's crabby" 

than the confident handler that walks in and says

"I will help you with my dog because he/she WILL bite" 

You have to find a vet that is going to TRUST YOU to handle your dog in a way that is going to make them feel safe to work with the dog. Most vets are used to their tech help, so creating a good relationship with them is important.


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## Jim Delbridge

This is a two-sided coin question.
1)The vet assumed the handler/owner didn't have a clue and yes, I'd leave that vet.

2)When I started with working dogs, it was instilled in me that my dogs would be the shining example of dogs everywhere. My first working dog was doing a stand-for-exam at six months of age. Something, my wife (also my vet) reminds me when I don't make the subsequent dogs do that.
But, I do take all puppies to the vet early on and let other techs handle them while I reward or correct the dog for good behavior. I've seen big mean fierce law enforcement dogs turn into cowling tail-tucked wimps at a vet because they only had bad experiences at the vet. 

Realize that not all vets get a good education in canine behavior and training. Realize that one's dog being a "work or sport dog" is no excuse for bad behavior but instead should be an obligation for exemplorary behavior on the part of dog and handler. 
When that first dog was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, I took her up to the state university for some tests. One of the techs there used to work for us and knew this dog as a puppy. When I walked in with my working dog off lead at my side, the university welcomed us. The tech came up front and walked the dog back to a kennel off-lead once I told the dog to go with her. Such should be the example, not the excuse, of a working/sport dog.

I groom my dogs myself now, but when I used a groomer, I took an entire day off to be with the dog while it was at the groomer supervise how they handled the dog, to reinforce a good experience, and to reward/correct desired behavior. My dogs were always taken by the groomer at short notice as they knew they would behave and that I'd have already bathed them.


We lead and teach by example of what our dogs can do. 

From the stories my wife tells me of her clinic, this tends to be the exception rather than the rule.


Jim Delbridge


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## Carol Boche

Jim Delbridge said:


> We lead and teach by example of what our dogs can do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jim Delbridge


Can't say that my dogs are as well behaved as what you explained, however, they do mind their p's and q's at the vets. I stay with them and handle them though, after all, they are dogs and can get stressed at something that may not necessarily stress them.


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## Karen M Wood

My dogs all love my vet and love to visit. They are happy to see the staff, the Dr. and they go happily into the kennels, jump into the tubs and are well mannered for being handled. Even before i worked for the vet my dogs love going there. (Lots of nice people with jars of cookies) This is because i own a breed that is often mistake for a pit bull and i want people to leave with a positive experience of a bully breed. I have also been lucky to have dogs that really just liked everyone. I hope that all of your dogs can enjoy going to the vet and not have to be micromanaged the whole time.


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## Daniel Lybbert

So I was shoeing a horse today. The owner was there holding him. He started to be a bit of a dink. I kept working waiting for the owner to reprimand the horse. He kept dicking around. The same as the original posts dog.


> He cried, whined, and wiggled.


. This went on for a little bit. Until I got tired of being jerked around and wasting my time.
This thread came to mind. So I stood up and said would you like to disipline your horse or me.
Chances are the vet was in the same perdiciment. Owner let the dog F around till the vet got tired of waiting for said dog trainer to reprimand dog. Owner doesnt even realize there is a problem until vet finally trains dog for said owner. 
I see it all the time with horses. Horse trainers horses are some of the worst behaved. Goes for quite a few dogs and dog trainers I know too. 
If you as an owner dont want dog reprimanded then do it yourself before said profesional has to do it for you.


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## Nicole Stark

ha ha, that reminded me of the last time I had Wasabi at the vet. I generally wait outside until it's her turn as she acts like she's a roller derby chick when entering new places (full bore enthusiasm, arms and legs every which way, on walls or doors if she's got better leverage, etc). Just as I walked in someone said "I see that's why she was waiting out side."

Am I working on this? Absolutely. I let the dog just be kinda raw for a while to see what was there, now I'm ready to become the Wizard of Oz and try to give that ugly little shit a brain so that everything works right (kidding of course). Kinda.


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## Ted Summers

Ah hell na! I often have a the same thing happen with LE K9 handlers. There are handlers, there are trainers, and there are vets. A vet knows how to keep an animal heathly, a handler can handle a WL dog, and a trainer can train one. All. the. time. I get the "if you need any training tips" BS from LE K9 guys/girls. I take my dogs to the vet for one reason; to check on their health. I don't go to see a personal trianer about a tax problem.

Find a new vet that knows WTF is going on and treat it like a business (it is). I always explain I have a WL Mali or Dutchie and they are/will be working in detections and sports, and no I'm not altering them, no I'm not going but buy hearworm pills from you (I buy Ivomec and do it myself), no I'll not be feeding them the food you sell and I will question your positioning on an X-rays to go to the OEF. If Imma' part with my cash, I'll get what I want. Vets are not trainers or handlers


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## Nicole Stark

I thought about this thread yesterday when I had my mastiff at the vet and the thought occurred to me "would you let your dog correct a vet?" I had to ask her to get out of her face and at one point I was tempted to tell her that the dog is trained in two languages, understands many words and hand signals beyond that, has some basic assistance training, advanced beyond basic OB and doesn't need to be talked to like she's a child you are cheerleading to do something they don't want to do. It certainly made me question her judgment because I found her behavior kind of stupid and awkward and, maybe a bit disingenuine. I was there for a serious and important reason, not some foolish puppet show.


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## Sara Waters

I must be fairly fortunate, I have always had vets who have been happy to let me handle my dogs, while they get on with vetting. I think you just have to present yourself in a business like fashion and have dogs that are well trained. 

As to x-rays, I am fortunate to have a specialist vet who I have known for many years that I go to for xrays and he really knows his stuff. I certainly dont interfere with his positioning for xrays because he is good and thats why I pay him.

If I had to question him on stuff like that I would go elsewhere.


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## Nicole Stark

Oh, there was no issue there with me or the dog. It was the vets goofy behavior that I found objectionable. The vet was new to me because of a specific problem I had the dog in for. I requested someone who was a bit more experienced in that particular area.


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## Lisa Brazeau

My vet rocks. Very dog savvy and no, I would never let my vet correct my dog, and he would never try.


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## Joby Becker

Steve Estrada said:


> I'm of the mind now that instead of euthanizing the dog we should euthanize some owners & if that flys maybe we could extend it to drivers on the hwy. [-o<


and people at walmart


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## Joby Becker

my vet is smarter than that.

I honestly probably would not care if a vet corrected a pup/dog of mine, because I would be interested in seeing how the animal reacted to it. But since I am in control of the dog, the vet would have to be a dick to try.

my vet visits are very controlled interactions.


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## Marcelo Villanueva

Donna DeYoung said:


> Today I took my 3 month WG WL GSD puppy (32 lbs) in for a set of shots. He is a happy going pup w/ an easy personality. He was just chilling there, happy to be with me. I asked them to clip his nails. Vet tech came in to take him "away". I said I wanted to go w/ him. I fed him treats as they did him and he was very good.
> 
> Then vet came to exam room and during exam, wanted to look in his ears w her scope and he wanted nothing to do with it. He cried, whined, and wiggled. I see this as my fault, I should have been handling him for that. But what happened next I didn't like. My vet got in the pups face, said stern "no" and squished his muzzle/face with her hand.
> 
> I immediately told her I didn't want physical correction for my puppy. Then she gave me a lecture about how they wouldn't be able to handle him when he's older, he needs it for his health so they can ck him, blah blah blah. I tried to explain he's a sport dog but she has no idea what that is.
> 
> Then she laid him on the table to look in his ear and squashed him w/ her body. Done with that ear. I decided to show her I know a little about handling dogs at vet. I flipped him over and gently laid him down. She smirked and said "now you're dominating him" (I just wanted to get out of there as fast as I could).
> 
> Would you let your vet physically correct a puppy? or would you find a new vet?
> 
> (This is a country vet I use for my pet/farm dogs. In the past I've used a city vet for my WL dogs - a vet that also handles police dogs, but I'm no longer taking my dogs into town during the week for training...so thought I could use this country vet).
> 
> I'm looking for a new vet. And I'll be working w/ my puppy's ears.


 
I have been following this thread for quite some time, and I am not sure I understanding what the issue(s) are?

What exacdtly is the issue if, in the VETs mind they have/had to correct your dog(s), and achieved the desired result in order to provide care to your animal? What is the fear if a Vet corrects the dog?

What if the dog is in surgery and has to spend the night or a couple of hours with the vet and acts up? 

I don't know of too many vets that allow people into surgery ( pre-operation and recovery)? 

Is it because you expect your dogs to only listen to you?

I believe, there are certain people a dog should listen too; one of those people in my opinion is the dogs VET, who is providing care for the animal.

I'm lost and confused with everyone's response about not allowing their vets to correct the dog they are providing care for.

Cheers,
Chello...


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## Nicole Stark

Yeah, I really didn't get that either.


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## Kara Fitzpatrick

some vet clinics get nervous because even if your own dog bites you, they can sue the animal hospital. especially with idiot owners who don't know what the f*ck they are doing.


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## Nicole Stark

That's a good example of me missing the obvious. I don't think like that and therefore my thought process wouldn't even venture in that direction as a possibility for why something like that might happen.


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## Jim Delbridge

I still have a very vivid memory of my wife's 2nd day of practice when I was there to catch the 6 ft 7 inch biker who passed out when she drew blood on his wife's poodle. Vets can not depend on the owners having a clue or being able to assist, but they are always happy with the owner who has read the manual and knows how to work their dog in the exam room. It's no different with cats. My wife will routinely come home with scratches or bites when the owner let go of fluffy at the wrong time and then claimed, "I had no idea she would react that way."
And then there was the time my hand swole up to three times its size after I had to catch a cat coming out of anesthesia where the owner snuck in and opened the crate door at the wrong time. I got to experience handing the cat to a tech as the cat hung from my hand as it's teeth were sunk in deep. ....good times....... Like I said, always two sides to the coin.

Jim Delbridge


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## Donna DeYoung

update on wild child puppy...I'm doing regular practice vet exams on puppy. He DOES have an aversion to being "forced" to stand still or held in one spot and poked/prodded on. We're working on that so he is comfortable for future vet visits (with a different vet). But he doesn't seem to care about his ears.

It's not so much that the puppy got a dominant/in-your-face/physical correction for something he didn't know how to do (stand still, have his ears poked in) or that he got smashed on the exam table and forceably held down for a procedure he'd never had before (or been prepared for - my bad)...after I said I didn't want that type of handling ... it's that the vet, to me, lost her temper and was a jerk. to the puppy and me. I mean, that puppy SCREAMED, when vet poked in his ear. He didn't bite her. He was trying to get away. 

As it was happening, I was trying to think what could be wrong! I thought his ear could be hurting him if he'd gotten a bruise from rough-housing w/ the other dogs...I didn't think he had an infection (no scratching those ears). who knows, the vet might have done something to the inside of his ear canal when she reached down in there...or he could just be reacting to the handling. And as I was trying to figure it out. that's when she grabbed his muzzle and corrected him.

right after it was all over, while the vet was explaining I should handle his ears every day. I was poking my finger down in his ear. poke poke poke. vet talking away. poke poke poke. and puppy was just sitting there. go figure.

Up til that time, the puppy had been w/ me a few weeks. First puppy I've raised up in, oh, about 20 yrs. Other dogs in my life came as rescues or young adults. I knew it would be learning experience, my first working line puppy.

This puppy's "training" to that point consisted of crate training, sitting before being let out of crate/kennel, diversion to other things to bite (other than my clothes), diversion to other things to bite and carry (other than my shoes), a few OB lessons w/ food, not biting/dominating the small dog in the family, potty training, tug play, and retrieving. That's about it.

Never had a dog react before to a vet exam. So wasn't expecting it and caught me off guard.

With a little work, he will be a future "model citizen" for working dogs at the vet 

Here is a photo of the little guilty one.


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## Gillian Schuler

Marcelo Villanueva said:


> I have been following this thread for quite some time, and I am not sure I understanding what the issue(s) are?
> 
> What exacdtly is the issue if, in the VETs mind they have/had to correct your dog(s), and achieved the desired result in order to provide care to your animal? What is the fear if a Vet corrects the dog?
> 
> What if the dog is in surgery and has to spend the night or a couple of hours with the vet and acts up?
> 
> I don't know of too many vets that allow people into surgery ( pre-operation and recovery)?
> 
> Is it because you expect your dogs to only listen to you?
> 
> I believe, there are certain people a dog should listen too; one of those people in my opinion is the dogs VET, who is providing care for the animal.
> 
> I'm lost and confused with everyone's response about not allowing their vets to correct the dog they are providing care for.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chello...


Good point - my Briard had to spend a few days at the clinic after a torsion operation which included walking him out to pee etc. If I have trust in my vet I should be able to trust her/him to do the necessary to control my dog.

And I would never visit a vet I didn't trust.

BTW, why especially mention WL puppy. If I had a non-WL puppy, the answer would be the same. Or is the general opinion that WL puppies are more sensitive???

Now hiding behind Swiss mountains....


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## Connie Sutherland

Well, I think there's kind of a mixture of preferring that others not correct our dogs and also that the vet in the OP sounded to me like an a$$hole. I would have been pissed off too, and I would not have continued to use that vet.


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## Sara Waters

Gillian Schuler said:


> Good point - my Briard had to spend a few days at the clinic after a torsion operation which included walking him out to pee etc. If I have trust in my vet I should be able to trust her/him to do the necessary to control my dog.
> 
> And I would never visit a vet I didn't trust.
> 
> BTW, why especially mention WL puppy. If I had a non-WL puppy, the answer would be the same. Or is the general opinion that WL puppies are more sensitive???
> 
> Now hiding behind Swiss mountains....


Yes that is my take on it too. For my breeds it doesnt make any difference working line or not. I have only had one dog that was a problem at the vet and that was a very nervy showline cattle dog. I would hope WL dogs are not more sensitive or difficult to handle. I would have thought nervy temperaments were not what one is looking for.

Vets that lose their temper are not what I would be looking for either. I have never had that experience thank goodness and I trust the couple of vets I use. They are very calm, professional and competent, if they were not, I wouldnt use them. I am happy to leave my dogs with them and let them get on with vetting.


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## susan tuck

Marcelo Villanueva said:


> What exacdtly is the issue if, in the VETs mind they have/had to correct your dog(s), and achieved the desired result in order to provide care to your animal? What is the fear if a Vet corrects the dog?
> 
> What if the dog is in surgery and has to spend the night or a couple of hours with the vet and acts up?
> 
> I don't know of too many vets that allow people into surgery ( pre-operation and recovery)?
> 
> Is it because you expect your dogs to only listen to you?
> 
> I believe, there are certain people a dog should listen too; one of those people in my opinion is the dogs VET, who is providing care for the animal.
> 
> I'm lost and confused with everyone's response about not allowing their vets to correct the dog they are providing care for.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chello...


If any of my dogs did something untoward *while I was there, handling my dogs, at the vets office,* I am the one who would correct them, because it's my job, not anyone else's job.

If I have to *leave any of my dogs* at the vets office, I know my vets, they and their staff are fully capable of handling my dogs *in my absence.* 

What in the world is so difficult for you to understand? Seems like a rather simple concept to me.



Connie Sutherland said:


> Well, I think there's kind of a mixture of preferring that others not correct our dogs and also that the vet in the OP sounded to me like an a$$hole. I would have been pissed off too, and I would not have continued to use that vet.


* EXACTLY!!!! 8) *


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## Sara Waters

susan tuck said:


> If any of my dogs did something untoward *while I was there, handling my dogs, at the vets office,* I am the one who would correct them, because it's my job, not anyone else's job.
> 
> *8) *


That is very true and you are obviously highly competent. I think the area becomes grey when the owner thinks that they are controlling their dog but the vet is struggling to administer the treatment. The vet then may intervene and try and control the dog. It is probably a common daily problem so the vet just decides to take charge.

In the case of Donnas puppy, her puppy may well have reacted to the strangeness of being in a stressful situation with a strange person poking his person and into his ears. 

Some dogs are fine with their owners doing this but not so fine in the vets rooms with a stranger. So the handling could include a few different people. One of my pups would let me handle her paws but no one else so we had a bit of work to do with a few friends helping out and she is now okay.


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## Karen M Wood

I have had many a dog scream bloody murder for things i haven't even done to them yet. 
Shih Tzu's scream while i'm checking to see if the water is warm on my own hand. This pup screamed during the whole bath, screams for drying, brushing, clipping, nail trims everything. Because she had the owner trained not to do anything "She" didn't like. It made for a stressful groom because clients kept checking in to see why the puppy was screaming. And most of the time she was screaming because i had the safety loop on her neck.
Huskies scream for everything, so do many a shepherd pup. Shiba inus are hair raising in their screaming. Some dogs are just really vocal. Some love being handled and messed with, others not so much. 
Most people make the mistake of coddling the dog, instead of building confidence. 
Hopefully the puppy will recover from the experience, and come to enjoy visiting the vet.


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## Gillian Schuler

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I skipped most of the posts cuz I know what they say. I work with animals in somewhat of the same way. If you dont want some one dealing with your dog then you should have done it your self. Dont blame the guy he isnt a dog trainer he is a vet. You pay him to check his temp not train your dog.


Exactly!!


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## Lindsay Janes

If a veterinarian decides to correct my dogs for their wrong doing, I would never take them back. I'm not okay with anyone else than me correcting my dogs. They don't live with my dogs everyday like I do. I feed and take care of my dogs, they don't. I don't care if it is a pet or a working dog.


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## Gillian Schuler

Everyone to his own of course :roll:

If my vet, hasn't happened as yet in all the years, decided to correct my dog, I wouldn't raise a murmur. 

Dogs in pain can act aggressively especially when in pain. I wouldn't want my vet to first ask if it is in order for him to clamp the dog's mouth before being bitten by him.

If you have faith in your vet, you should have faith in his actions.


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## Carmen van de Kamp

There is no need for my vet to correct one of my dogs. I will make sure he doesn't get bitten. He needs to trust me ;-) & we have that understanding ;-)


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## Gillian Schuler

That's the same sort of trust that exists between my vet and me.

However, if it transpired that I had to leave the dog with him for any reason, such as an operation, etc. I know the dog would be in good hands and would trust my vet completely if he had to correct the dog in my absence.


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## Carmen van de Kamp

Gillian Schuler said:


> That's the same sort of trust that exists between my vet and me.
> 
> However, if it transpired that I had to leave the dog with him for any reason, such as an operation, etc. I know the dog would be in good hands and would trust my vet completely if he had to correct the dog in my absence.


With operations etc we always stay with the dogs, they are never there alone. 

Did once have an accident at the vet. The dog wounded his lip and this had to be stitched so the vet sedated the dog. Only as we know now to less....squeezing and pulling the wound resulted in the dog grabbing the wrist of our vet and a couple of weeks of sick leave. There now is a different sedation protocol for the type of dog we have..,.;-)


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