# FAT versus Skinny



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I've been following the last few days threads about the WDF. It seems to me that what we really have is a normal cross section of the general public. There are hard asses, assholes, sensitive people all around us including on this forum. We have our share of whiners too. We even have on again, off again whiners depending on the subject.

We are even screwing around with the subject of fat versus skinny people. I have to admit I never experienced this kind of stuff before from adults, particularly in public.

Frankly I have a great time here observing all the action along with some descent dog training stuff. It is hard to make everyone happy.

I think this forum runs the fine line and tries to get as close as possible to accomplishing that goal.

Maybe I'm a whiner for bring this up another time!


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Heres a great outlook and perspective on this thread, Sorry Lee, ain't trying to steal your spotlight, Just trying to make people see things are what you make of it and not how people see you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZeuCbO6Yz8&feature=related


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Heres a great outlook and perspective on this thread, Sorry Lee, ain't trying to steal your spotlight, Just trying to make people see things are what you make of it and not how people see you.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZeuCbO6Yz8&feature=related


 
](*,)


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> ...I think this forum runs the fine line and tries to get as close as possible to accomplishing that goal.
> 
> Maybe I'm a whiner for bring this up another time!


 LOL good point!


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> ](*,)


yea yea yea I know I got to chill with the videos:-$


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I hang on a few musician boards... lots of egos and hyperemotions but mostly I see open minds and general acceptance.

The dog boards seems be ego + aggression. I like this board and all of the people with the possible exception of Jennifer Coulter. C'mon a skinny SAR chick who lives life on the edge AND likes fried chicken? Surely she's a fake. 

Like dominant dogs, when they see a weakness, the exploit it, that's what I see going on with this board. It didn't always seem to be that way, I remember when it was knowledgeable people helping less knowledgeable people. I still see some of that and I think it will cycle back around as all things do.

I do think people take this stuff too seriously and for many people whether or not they want to admit it, their dogs are like children and that makes them protective of their dogs.

Personally, I got overloaded with the insults. I'm used to dealing with a lot of shit but when it goes to PMs then it becomes personal and that was the break point for me. I like jesting, I like pot stirrers but the personal insults are not needed. I'm guilty of laying them out too but you won't see it from me again because I believe change starts at home. 

On the fat vs skinny thing, you are what you are. I know as well as anybody that people can alter their appearance in one direction or another as easily as making a choice. I believe people choose to be fat or skinny. I also know there are factors that push people in one direction or another but at the end of the day it's still a choice. However, let it be a choice rather than a point of attack. 

I really wish more people would share their knowledge rather than use it to run people off.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I've been following the last few days threads about the WDF. It seems to me that what we really have is a normal cross section of the general public. There are hard asses, assholes, sensitive people all around us including on this forum. We have our share of whiners too. We even have on again, off again whiners depending on the subject.
> 
> We are even screwing around with the subject of fat versus skinny people. I have to admit I never experienced this kind of stuff before from adults, particularly in public.
> 
> ...


How much of it do you think is body language and inflection? Or rather, the lack thereof. Most of the stuff on this board that gets turned into much ado about nothing would be explained away in under five seconds flat in the real world, or people would discuss it in the course of a conversation and it would all be cool. Sure, there would still be arguments, some people just would not get along.

Overall, I think a lot of it is the artificial medium of the Internet. I've met people that on the Web come across as tools that were funny, intelligent, and nice people in real life. Then there were a few that come across like Aristotle or David Chappelle on the Internet only to be less adept in the real world.

It would be nice if people just chilled out a bit. As for the fat vs. skinny thing . . . I guess I've missed that. That sounds a bit middle school-ish, but I try to avoid that sort of stuff anyway, I really don't see the point. It DOES seem like there's some filter that is in effect when there is a real live person in front of you that shuts off on the Internet. This is hardly a Working Dog Forum thing either.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315684,00.html

Not saying I've got the answers, but I do think people should contemplate what they are actually saying and think things through a bit more before they type some of this stuff.

-Cheers


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## Chris Cromwell (Jun 7, 2010)




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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

One thing people need to remember about the internet is that it is for a lifetime. 

What you say may be used against you one day. In a world of political correctness and an electronic written record of what you say, it is not a good idea to say things that could come back to haunt you. We may not always have a free country and those who disagree with you may use what you have said in the past against you. This is already happening in politics with old video tapes and recordings surfacing of people. Personally, I am glad that there were no recording or videos of some of the stupid things that were done in my youth. As I'm sure most everyone would agree about some of their own foolishness done in immaturity. 

Even, if working dog forum goes offline, there are still cached files that are stored on servers. You can use the wayback machine to find old websites or old webpages that have not been on the internet for years.

Part of the problem is the way people have been raised. Everyone is special and very egocentric. It is actually taught to our children in schools to be selfish. My son was playing in soccer this year and everyone in the league got a medal. I am in my 40s but when we played sports in youth sports, you got a trophy for winning or placing. There were some people better than you at things and some worse. It helped me to strive to be better realizing that people were better. There are good lessons to be learned from losing. It does not feel as good as winning but sometimes losing can make you better. A little humbleness and humility never hurt anyone.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Fat vs Skinny… Lee it don’t get no better than this. That picture of the black board is great too. This shit is great. I always thought dog people were nut jobs, the proof is in this forum. The great thing about technology is us nut jobs from all around the world can sit on our couch getting fat and tell each other the other is a nut job.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

I have no idea what skinny is? I am 6'2" and 275-280 and have been up to 315. I don't care what others think of my body or weight is it imoortant how I feel about myself.....Healthy in mind, spirit and physiologiacally. Of cours health can be issue when your too heavy as I have found out after two knee surgeries.

Anyways...thats is the skinny on me


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Part of the problem is the way people have been raised. 

I agree, I blame the this on the increase in obesity as well. It used to be if a kid started to gain weight the other kids picked on them making them want to lose the weight. As Chris said it’s a choice. Someday I want to be fat, im gona be fat and proud!


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jack Roberts said:


> There were some people better than you at things and some worse. It helped me to strive to be better realizing that people were better. *There are good lessons to be learned from losing. It does not feel as good as winning but sometimes losing can make you better.* A little humbleness and humility never hurt anyone.


Definitely. I am trying to think of how to instill the values and lessons of that in my child(ren).

Can you imagine Vince Lombardi if he'd had to incorporate THAT mentality? How would THAT speech have gone?

-Cheers


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

David Ruby said:


> my child(ren).


spoken like a true musician.

Q: Do you have any kids?
A: Probably


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Fat and Skinny:

It may not be right but people in my Grandparents age (born in 1910s-1920s) viewed overweight people as lazy. My grandparents are no longer alive. I remember going to visit my grandparents and my grandmother told me I was putting on weight. I was about 8 pounds overweight. I never saw my Grandfather or Grandmother with bellies. My grandfather took pride that he was in good shape. 

It used to be there was one overweight kid in school. Some people are just genetically prone to carrying more weight. I think some people are just naturally big, so not everyone can help it if they are overweight. I think it is a small minority of the population still that have a fat gene. 

We also did not play inside as kids and parents usually kicked you out of the house during the day, unless there was some work to be done around the house. I remember leaving early and coming back home before nightfall most days growing up. 

We use to ride our bikes all day, swim, play football in two yards, etc.. I never see kids outside playing anymore. We never wanted to stay in the house. Now days, you can't get kids to go outside. I take my kids hiking and exercise them, even though are young. I'm setting their endurance and eating habits at an early age.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I think a lot of fat people are lazy. Of course not all of them are but it sure seems like it. I almost never have good luck with fat waitresses or waiters.

I do know many fat people who work like hell all day long and then come in and eat a heavy meal at midnight... which is probably why they are fat even though they are not lazy.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Fat is a plus in Costa Rica. It is a sign of success. A fat person has the bucks to afford plenty to eat and not work hard.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Fat vs Skinny… Lee it don’t get no better than this. That picture of the black board is great too. This shit is great. I always thought dog people were nut jobs, the proof is in this forum. The great thing about technology is us nut jobs from all around the world can sit on our couch getting fat and tell each other the other is a nut job.


Maybe we it should be mandatory that all new WDF members give their weight when they introduce themselves. Lets get it all out on the table upfront.\\/


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I think obesity is largely a result of the way our society lives but I also think there is a genetic element. I like to look upon myself as having superior "survivor" genes. AKA the "thrify" gene. <ok that was a joke>

My resting body temp is 96.8 (honest-middle of the day), I wake up with it near 95 and am freezing in an 80 degree room - BUT - the doctor says no thyroid issues. It takes a lot less fuel to idle on cold than on hot.

But, I finally had to come to the conclusion life ain't fair and the only way to loose it was severe calorie restriction and more excercise, even though I already was not eating that much and was fairly active.

----

But people face more challenges than obesity - we just tend to be more kind to people with other issues. I don't see people giving other people Hell for smoking and getting lung cancer or eating a no fiber diet and getting colon cancer etc.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I think it's all choice, mindset and environment. 

I was a college athlete. I was all about working out and being active. I only hung out with other active people. When I was dating my wife, I often play basketball or raquetball, then I would shower, met my girl, we'd go for a 3-5 mile run then play tennis or something. Sometimes we'd go for long weekend camping/hiking trips. 

Then I blew up my pelvis and that changed everything. I was out of sports and decided it was time to work on a career so I prepared myself for medical school. I went from jock to bookworm. My life was about studying, my wife and I started hanging out at book stores and libraries with other people who did the same things. She maintained an active lifestyle and even when I was ready to get active again, it hurt too much and I was too focused on becoming a surgeon (I never did). Lots of lat night eating.

Then I become a software engineer for a biomedical device firm... lots of sitting around. Lots of potlucks and junk eating. Then I became self employed and would have two to four lunch meetings per day. Then I quit the business world and became a professional musician. Lots of eating bar burgers at midnight etc... then you sleep until 2pm or sit around in a van or bus for hours on end. My whole mindset changed.

But like I said it's a choice and a month ago, I made the choice to become an athlete again. I started running again....just a mile now but when I started, I couldn't run a full mile and I ****ing hated it, now I'm starting to like it again. Soon I'll be up to 3-5 miles and running with my wife again. 

It's a choice, it's a mindset. Maybe I'm wrong but I have been living it for too long.




Nancy Jocoy said:


> I think obesity is largely a result of the way our society lives but I also think there is a genetic element. I like to look upon myself as having superior "survivor" genes. AKA the "thrify" gene. <ok that was a joke>
> 
> My resting body temp is 96.8 (honest-middle of the day), I wake up with it near 95 and am freezing in an 80 degree room - BUT - the doctor says no thyroid issues. It takes a lot less fuel to idle on cold than on hot.
> 
> ...


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

When is someone fat ?

i've known a few fat people, and of all the fat people I've known, I don't think any of them other than the odd exception, were what I would describe as lazy. I don't think I've ever called anyone fat before...I've referred to them as either big or round.

Being stick thin is largely a fashion, and a stupid one.

I think much of the obese problem lies in tv and convenience food, cemented in childhod. When I was a child, we were all fed freshly prepared and cooked food, no crisps or french fries.... and so never developd a taste or habit for shit. In addition, tv was restricted, only programmes which were of specific interest....the box was then switched off and you went off and DID something afer sitting around watching tv. You learned as a child to be doing something and be busy.

I don't necessarily believe it is a choice as such, different folks have different metabolisms, and stress levels and activity interests.

In addition, I hate sitting down to eat with someone who is finnicking over food... I enjoy the company moreso of people who like to eat and drink.

Kill the microwave I say...and get those kids out setting the traps ! :-D


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> When is someone fat ?


When they can't see their feet.


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## Chris Cromwell (Jun 7, 2010)

Jack Roberts said:


> One thing people need to remember about the internet is that it is for a lifetime.
> 
> What you say may be used against you one day. In a world of political correctness and an electronic written record of what you say, it is not a good idea to say things that could come back to haunt you. We may not always have a free country and those who disagree with you may use what you have said in the past against you. This is already happening in politics with old video tapes and recordings surfacing of people. Personally, I am glad that there were no recording or videos of some of the stupid things that were done in my youth. As I'm sure most everyone would agree about some of their own foolishness done in immaturity.
> 
> ...


This is very true. The company I work for will do internet searches on applicants to see what comes up. What you have said on the web or put on your facebook can be the difference in you getting an interview over other people. It is amazing what can come back to haunt you.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Chris, I do agree with you that it is a choice.......just saying that don't make the assumption that everyone who is fat is so because they are lazy and stuff their faces. 

Many are, but not all and you don't know unless you know that *individual*.

Part of the problem with anything anymore is lack of personal accountability and that is for a lot more than weight issues.

I am challenged all the time by people who tell me I am not "eating enough" - including nutritionists. Well screw them, it is working now and has been for the past 8 months and not by following their advice.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Adam Rawlings said:


> When they can't see their feet.


Thanks! I'm trying to imagine it :-s, not being able to see my feet.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

my pappy says "you're too fat when you can't see your privates without a mirror"


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Here is some good reading. I am not a doctor nor am I advertising this diet but I did use the philosophy of eatin to drop 20 lbs in about 45 days and I ate all day long. It just sucks to give up the comfort foods, sugars, diet sodas and mashed potatoes and all the other qucik and easy cooking foods!!! Oh yeah and ice cream too :twisted:

http://www.thedietsolutionprogram.com/content/2010/05/the-best-fat-burning-pills-that-do-not-exist/


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

I will have to agree about obesity being a choice. I look at obesity different than being big. Some people are just naturally big. Obesity is an extreme form of fat, not just big. 

Chris gave some good examples from his own life. It really does come down to choice for most people. 

Obesity is a serious disease and wrecks havoc on your body. It is a form of addiction, the same as tobacco, alcohol or other drugs. I enjoy eating and get much pleasure from it. I can easily see how someone gets overweight.

The only way that I keep from getting heavy is not changing my pants size. I refuse to go a size up. It pisses my wife off because I want buy new pants. When they pants are too tight, I am not eating as much because I feel uncomfortable. It is self imposed discipline, since sometimes the will power may be lacking.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jack Roberts said:


> I will have to agree about obesity being a choice. I look at obesity different than being big. Some people are just naturally big. Obesity is an extreme form of fat, not just big.
> 
> Chris gave some good examples from his own life. It really does come down to choice for most people.
> 
> ...


Ha Ha, that's the way I do it, with the jeans....just wait till you start choking . I don't recall seeing pics or vids on here of foks who are obese, big and some bigger but not obese, I may have missed some though. But if folks are obese, and they're doing sport or partaking in physical activity....they must be doing one helluva lot of eating in their down time.

Who wants to die healthy ? Not me, I'm not fat or big but if folks were to try and pressure me to be healthy, I know where I'd tell them to stuff it.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> my pappy says "you're too fat when you can't see your privates without a mirror"


Even worse is if you lay down and stretch and still can't see it, maybe thats why people put mirrors on there ceilings :-k


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: My son was playing in soccer this year and everyone in the league got a medal.

THis is how I see much of this board. No effort, but give me my respect, even though I don't know shit and should shut up and listen.

Everyone on here wants a medal. I spend my days pointing out that you are not dumb enough to be in special olympics, and not good enough to do sport........ B E C A U S E you D O N ' T P U T I N T H E T I M E.

And to be perfectly honest, have no talent for training. No one wants to hear that. They just don't. I know this lady that botched up her dog, and made all these STUPID mistakes with her dog, which is fine, don't get me wrong, that happens, but then gets his son, and makes the same mistakes, and the dog is not what the father is, so it crushes him... but of course you cannot tell this lady that this dog is not the same as his father, she won't listen.

Now she has a different dog, and from what I hear, is ****ing this one up the exact same way. 

I think this is where a lot of the problems come in. THEre are a lot of people who train dogs, and most of them cannot chew gum and walk at the same time.

Can you imagine a basketball game with just dog trainers ? I think that would be funny as shit.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

You know the old verbiage...you can't see what is in others without it being within you.

Why do most of us want to compete in some area of dog sports? Is it the money...I doubt it! Unless your like my dog's sire owner who sold him to China for big dough!

I am sure you have been overwhelming, heavy handed and overpowering with your dogs ...Mondio Trial...? I know I have...but I also am willing to put in the amount of time I can, to learn and listen to become better and make my young dog better with his Rottweiler limitations then again maybe he will suprise 'em.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> I was a college athlete.
> 
> Another fellow athlete.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah5FEpGql9s&feature=related


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Chris Michalek said:
> 
> 
> > I was a college athlete.
> ...


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> Chris McDonald said:
> 
> 
> > Back in '82 if the coach would have put me in, we would have.....
> ...


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> Chris Michalek said:
> 
> 
> > Holly shit “82”.. its over dude, long over, let it go man, just let it go
> ...


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

both of you guys missed the 1982 reference. GOSH!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

No that’s what we are getting at, if you were in college in 1982, its time to let it go. 
And I think Doug meant that there are people in here that were born in 1982, that’s a like time for them. 
Chris I think its you that is slipping in your old age. If you were in college in 1982 and were 20 then that makes you about 100 now. Give or take a few


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

That's what I'm talking about.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/8725/napoleon-dynamite-uncle-rico-throws-a-steak


If you can't get Hulu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGnW7IKdGpY



Sometimes I wish my name wasn't Chris


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

I guess we always go back to _I Remember Those Days_...when we get old :grin:


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> both of you guys missed the 1982 reference. GOSH!


I didn't get it either, then again, I watched part of that movie and decided I was losing IQ points and turned it off. But, on the thought of that, I wasn't even born for another 3 years after 1982...

More like Al Bundy and his legendary touchdown 

As for weight? I'm over what's considered a "healthy" weight, but passed a body fat percentage without a problem. I haven't been stick thin since 3 kids ago and a knee surgery, and no, not athletic either since I have no cartilege left in my knee, but I try to eat decently and lay off the junk. My kids also do not get to eat fast food very often (once every couple of months) and I cook everything from scratch.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

6'2", 180lbs, eat whatever I want, whenever I want, very fit and athletic. Don't have to run or do shit for a year and can still run 10 miles no problem...

Years ago, eveyone said metabolism would catch up with me....well it can't catch me!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I didn't get it either, then again, I watched part of that movie and decided I was losing IQ points and turned it off.



napoleon dynamite rules.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)




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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I wondered where my chiuahua went!


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jody Butler said:


> 6'2", 180lbs, eat whatever I want, whenever I want, very fit and athletic. Don't have to run or do shit for a year and can still run 10 miles no problem...
> 
> Years ago, eveyone said metabolism would catch up with me....well it can't catch me!


If your very fit and athletic, then YOU need to come decoy.....I dare ya!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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