# Training the pet dog owner



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

For the trainers who work with pet dogs and pet people, I need help. 

I am trying to help my neighbour with her dog. He is a high energy, reactive, out of control shep/husky ish pet. He barks, lunges, spins and snaps at passing cars and people, cyclists send him into a frenzy and he loses his mind at other dogs and can pull his owner off her feet. He is also super smart and willing and can be a nice little dog. A few months ago, I tried to help her with walking him, and with just a few corrections, he was walking nicely on leash. For me. With her, he still pulls and flips out. 

So how I train her to do what I do? I've done lots of work with my own dogs, but I am far from expert and don't really know how to teach someone else who has her own ideas about how to train. 

When you start working with a new dog and owner do you have a step by step plan or just work with the dog and what he shows you each session? Most of all, how do you get through to the owner?


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

for me : step by step plan....every time for every case
i just rambled about this in a recent thread and explained why


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Try Lou Castle's "Crittering" technique with the ecollar. It works great. I've done it several times. Of course, maintenance training will be needed now and then. You can find the protocol on his website.


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Maintenance is the issue... if this was my dog, there wouldn't be a problem and it would never have gotten as bad as it is. He is much better behaved when I take the leash.

It's an owner problem. Will the ecollar help with that? :twisted:


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Try Lou Castle's "Crittering" technique with the ecollar. It works great. I've done it several times. Of course, maintenance training will be needed now and then. You can find the protocol on his website.



The big problem with using an e-collar is getting it on the pet owner. :-o:twisted: 

On this I will agree with CM. The dog's aren't the issue and the owners rarely understand the leadership concept when it comes to their "babies."

Rather then start right into fixing a particular problem I try and get them interested in marker training. 

If they "get that" then working into the problem can go lots faster.


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

You have hit the nail when you stated "how to teach someone else who has her own ideas about how to train" The answer is you can't unless they are shown that their ways aren't working and even then you could still be facing the wall. Sometimes you can make the point by doing to them exactly what they are doing to the dog. Mixed signals, confusing commands, etc. Then when they blow up you explain if they can't deal with it, how can the dog? 

Other ones I laid it out in black and white then sent them on their way with the proviso that when they were finally ready to admit their way wasn't working to look me up.


----------



## Nilledem Greg (Jun 8, 2015)

leslie cassian said:


> For the trainers who work with pet dogs and pet people, I need help.
> 
> I am trying to help my neighbour with her dog. He is a high energy, reactive, out of control shep/husky ish pet. He barks, lunges, spins and snaps at passing cars and people, cyclists send him into a frenzy and he loses his mind at other dogs and can pull his owner off her feet. He is also super smart and willing and can be a nice little dog. A few months ago, I tried to help her with walking him, and with just a few corrections, he was walking nicely on leash. For me. With her, he still pulls and flips out.
> 
> ...


Have you tried getting an e-collar? Most have a brochure that goes with it complete with step-by-step instructions on how to successfully train a dog. Here is a link to one that I use. http://goo.gl/oohvRM


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Yes, she has an ecollar. When the dog does something she doesn't like, she zaps him. Or points the remote at him and threatens him. :roll: 

I have tried to introduce her to clicker training, but ya know, too busy to train, want quick fix, the usual excuses and reasons...


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Greg

i heard they are working on a new Hi tech version of the no bark Ecollar.

you put it on the dog and set it for a height above the ground.
if the dog jumps up and exceeds that height, the collar stims the dog.
it will also have a ramp up feature so that if the dog jumps in rapid succession it will boost the stim automatically. if it barks and jumps at the same time the stim is doubled

pretty soon we won't even need a lead for an out of control dog. there will be an Ecollar setting for every problem. all the owner has to do is read the manual and keep the batteries charged. and they will be breed specific in case your dog falls into a "high drive" breed category 

they will get more expensive, but still way cheaper than a trainer. the dog will train itself !


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Sarah Platts said:


> You have hit the nail when you stated "how to teach someone else who has her own ideas about how to train" The answer is you can't unless they are shown that their ways aren't working and even then you could still be facing the wall. Sometimes you can make the point by doing to them exactly what they are doing to the dog. Mixed signals, confusing commands, etc. Then when they blow up you explain if they can't deal with it, how can the dog?
> 
> Other ones I laid it out in black and white then sent them on their way with the proviso that when they were finally ready to admit their way wasn't working to look me up.


That is it!

I once showed a Great Dane Handler how her dog walked correctly beside me. She was full of admiration but NOTHING ELSE. Since then, I realised it is a mistake to show them how it could be done.

A help could be to set them off on Agilty or Obedience. Here, their competition spirits could be so motivated that they would be willing to train their dogs (at least out on the field).

It is very difficult to train people to train pet dogs.

The puppies come into their households, suss out the situation within minutes and find their owners lacking. Here begins the downarrd curve.

How to get this through to the hundreds / millions of pet and dog owners, I do not know.

My neighbour had a Working Dog GSD, the sister to mine. Out they went to the Dog Club, the Dogs were allowed to play first and "work" after???

Now she has a Papillion, 5 years old, given away by the breeder.

He is great in Agility. However, said neighbour stood by the Agility Ring and chatted to a member who had a Hovawart on the line. Said Papillon scraped the floor in front of the Hovawat, who resented this, and biss him in the shoulder-

According to another member's Statement, the Hovawart is a "Macho"!!!! The teeth of a Hovawart when he grabs a Papillon leave disastrous damages. 

The big dog is is the Macho??? 

I have often argued with them as to why they let their dogs run around together before training. The answer is: we are a "Family Club". Oh, yes, but they are trraining canines, too, not Gold Hamsters. Schuthund Clubs and Agility Clubs often show no sympathy for each other.


It's a no win situation.


----------



## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

This is how I start every client. They get it fast

http://youtu.be/wraF_W5DPac


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't think ecollar training is the solution here - I suspect, as others have suggested, I will have a hard time convincing the owner to wear one. 

The real problem is that dog training actually requires effort, and time and consistency, not just me dropping by and 'fixing' the dog. Until the owner is ready to do more than just lament that her dog has developed all kinds of undesirable behaviours and then make excuses about how busy she is, the problems she is having will continue.


----------



## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Leslie the good thing about proper e collar training is that the average dog owner with little to no dig handling ability can make great progress very quickly. That is usually enough for a little motivation. Most people are not going to put in a ton of time and effort so you must make your teaching very beneficial


----------



## Nilledem Greg (Jun 8, 2015)

leslie cassian said:


> Yes, she has an ecollar. When the dog does something she doesn't like, she zaps him. Or points the remote at him and threatens him. :roll:
> 
> I have tried to introduce her to clicker training, but ya know, too busy to train, want quick fix, the usual excuses and reasons...


The e-collar is a tool for training, not a disciplinary device. (Although at the basic level it can be.)

I think it is very important to introduce the person to basic dog training, no matter how slow you guys take it, it doesn't matter. As long as you are taking steps to learning.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

for me, when people use tools at the basic level for discipline, they are not training, as it applies to learning.

i do think training can be considered nothing more than control. getting an animal to do something for the human that it would not choose to do on its own.

most dogs are easy to control and it makes people think they have "trained" them.
- for me, control and training are not synonymous
- hard to put into words, but i just don't agree and probably why discipline comes much later in the game for me


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

The dog is smart and willing and loves his ball. There is a lot to work with, but the owner is old school and has no commitment to actually working with the dog. Before I go ecollar, I want to see some effort with actually teaching the dog the basics. 

I'm lazy as **** about training my dogs... I barely do anything with them now, aside from have fun, and if you came to my house, you would think they are mannerless hooligan dogs... they sleep on the furniture, beg for food, growl and grumble at me, pull on leash on walks, grab food off the counter, but I don't care. I can take them out in public and they can be civilized and polite because I've done the work.

I got a PM from another member. He pointed out that people value 'stuff' based on what they've paid for it. So free dog training... not a whole lot value placed on my time or work. 

We've been through this before... I tried to introduce her to clicker training. One simple exercise, 10 reps per day, probably a total time investment of <5 minutes per day, yet somehow, there is no time even for that, because excuses. 

Teaching 'Look' is boring, perfect Basic Position is dumb, yet both of those are, to me, the foundation of control. Be more fun is stupid, because you need to be the alpha pack leader. I give up.


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

People put their time into the things that interest them the most. Sometimes people invest time purely with the expectation of a certain goal/reward or recognition in mind. Course, a lot of people do things with absolutely no thought given to the consequences of their actions.

Whoever sent you that PM might actually believe that. I don't. The best dog I ever got, the one I cherish more than anything I could put a value to is the one I got for free. Some of my best experiences with others have come by way of people who wanted absolutely nothing in return but to share the knowledge they've gained with someone who may be in need of some trusted guidance or encouragement.

Some people, and this may apply to the person this post is about, like to bitch about things simply to create a drama of sort, that draws attention to them. They don't actually want a solution, instead they seek attention and interest from others about a situation that was entirely self created.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Larry, I don't use them but that was an EXCELLENT explanation of your e-collar work. Thanks!



Leslie. I'm 100% with Nicole on value of a dog compared to cost. 

Of the many I've owned I can say that of the top three in my life I paid only for one.

"For me" there is absolutely NO connection between cost and effort I want to put into my dogs.


----------



## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> Some people, and this may apply to the person this post is about, like to bitch about things simply to create a drama of sort, that draws attention to them. They don't actually want a solution, instead they seek attention and interest from others about a situation that was entirely self created.


 Yup, some like that for sure. They're the ones to avoid.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

when i am out i enjoy showing NON dog people how to approach and not approach a dog, how to control their kids so the kid doesn't provoke excitement from a dog they don't know, and ways to pet or not pet a dog.

to me that is just as enjoyable as training with a dog. they are always very appreciative and thank me for spending time with them
- of course it's free
- whether it rubs off is anyone's guess //lol//

when i evaluate a dog i spend at least an hour with the owner; often two. always free. they ALWAYS thank me many times over. i do it to see how serious they are. i also give them a few specifics and tell them to try it out for a week or so and see if it helps

i used to start working with someone as soon as they wanted too. then it would often be a few weeks before it was obvious they really didn't want to put the effort into it and were expecting me to "train their dog" for them.

i don't do it that way anymore. it wastes less of my time. the advice i give is the same stuff i have posted here. but in the real world, once they start paying, it motivates them to get the most bang for their buck and they try hard. i doubt that happens much when it's read "online", because training advice always comes across as an "opinion" //lol//

- i always tell them training should be fun first; but it's also work. learning markers is only easy on paper when you read the internet explanations and look at the charts 
- putting it into practise and "thinking it" requires effort. after a few sessions they understand completely and the challenge motivates them even more.

that's been my experience.
for me, training is like breeding. if you're only in it for the money you shouldn't be doing it
- and you can never forget "it's THEIR dog", and in the end, they are gonna do what they want to do with it //lol//


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

in over two decades i have NEVER had anyone ask me to show THEM how to train THEIR dog  

dog owners always think "trainers" are "other people" and never consider themselves a dog trainer 
- so most people are surprised when i tell them almost everything their dog does is because of how they trained it //lol//

usually U can't come out and say it up front and gotta be subtle 'cause it's a hard pill to swallow


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I wasn't suggesting that no one values something they get for free, any more than paying for something makes it more valuable. Free pup or high priced pup, both end up dumped by the side of the road or dropped off at shelters, or abused and neglected. If my neighbourhood is any indication, cats and kittens are about as disposable a pet as there is. Easily obtained for free, and just as easily dumped. You can't make people care. 

Free training by me, well, you get what you pay for, and I'm willing to share what I know because I like training and I want to help, but, after a certain point, I start to feel like I'm wasting my time because there is no effort or appreciation on the other end. I don't have a magic dog training wand, and I can't fix a dog like Cesar Milan can in a one hour show and if the owner isn't going to put in any effort, then I can just go back to smiling and nodding.


----------



## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Larry, I don't use them but that was an EXCELLENT explanation of your e-collar work. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Bob. I stopped doing that with clients for a while because the role playing thing just felt ridiculous but what I quickly learned was that people just got it very fast with the role play and we're having difficulty understanding when I stopped


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

So back to my original question, now that some actual trainers have responded - how do I get the dog owner on board and motivated to put in the work with her dog? How do I set up a plan, should she actually step up?


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Are the actual dog trainers the ones who get paid to train others or their dogs, or is an actual dog trainer someone who does the same regardless of payment? 

Trust me Leslie, if she really was interested she would have responded accordingly. If she doesn't understand training concepts then recommend a good book for her to read. While I applaud your efforts, I think it's a bit of a stretch for you to be thinking of ways to get her to think for herself. People do what they want, regardless of your intentions/effort to reach out and/or help. 

I don't know this person you speak of, but I do know you can get people's attention a number of ways. You can trip them, ask them leading questions so they believe they came up with the solution, you can flash them, put them into a posiition of being an active observer, you pick.

Alright, I will be serious now. Have you asked those questions above of this owner?


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Nilledem said:


> Have you tried getting an e-collar? Most have a brochure that goes with it complete with step-by-step instructions on how to successfully train a dog. Here is a link to one that I use. http://goo.gl/oohvRM



Greg, please don't forget your required intro. Thanks.

It goes here: http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/

And welcome to WDF.


----------



## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

leslie cassian said:


> So back to my original question, now that some actual trainers have responded - how do I get the dog owner on board and motivated to put in the work with her dog? How do I set up a plan, should she actually step up?


You show good results, with a happy dog, fast. Then it is up to you to spend a good amount of time working with the owners, teaching good handling, good habits, and showing the bad habits that they have that are hurting the dogs progress. And you must be honest, very honest. They do what you ask or the program fails, that simple. I get a lot of credit for turning around some very serious dogs but in reality it's not me, it's the owners. I can only show them the way. I have had very few clients not commit to what I ask for. I make our relationship strong. If they don't agree, I can't help


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

maybe you've already done this, but details matter in my opinion 

no matter how impressive you are to them when you do things well, the owners always need to get motivated.....to get an initial boost i try and show them something they can do easily .... it might seem insignificant in your mind, but might be much more motivating for them

example
when they are farting around and the dog is not paying them attention, point it out in a nice way. show them that the dog isn't even responding to its name

try and explain it's pretty hard to teach anything until the dog will pay attention and that it doesn't even require saying ANYTHING to the dog

tell them to watch the dog's eyes
(makes no diff whether the dog is sitting or standing)

then play the "gimme some eye contact game" by holding a treat in front of its mug. hold it in line with your eyes....no brainer for any dog and it scarfs it up

then move it off line so the dog has to look at about a 45 degree angle off centerline to see it. of course it will and of course you palm it until the dog stops mugging the treat and gives you E.C.

emphasize you are not saying a WORD to the dog and explain that the dog will start paying attention, etc
- depending on how focussed the dog is hold the treat further off line, up and down, etc

most dogs that are happy and not stressed can be taught this in seconds ... five min max.....it might be qualified for "dumb status" if it took much longer
- the problem is, unless the owner knows what to watch and you don't "narrate" well enuff, they often won't get what's happening

then the owner starts out EXACTLY like you did, copies your technique, and like magic, the dog is now paying attention to them
- when they accomplish something they usually get a motivation boost, and this is about the easiest thing i can think of to get them started

of course this is nothing more than a feeding session, but it's a start and any owner can do it

the more the dog was blowing them off the more impressed they will usually be, so set it up accordingly //lol//

has worked for me as an ice breaker 

otoh, the more impressive you are when you handle their dog, the more helpless and inadequate it might make them feel even tho they won't admit it 

regardless, "how to motivate" is always hard to predict and everyone is different that way


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I started my 12 yr old grand daughter on training her first dog training adventure a few months ago.

Markers all the way and she's doing a great job.

Hard to take credit because she's one of the grandkids who will do well at whatever she does.

It's usually not hard to determine how well the person your teaching will do in a few lessons.

I've always said, some are naturals, some will learn because of honest interest, Some will learn without knowing how or why simply because they can follow directions and others will never get it at all.

I always try and discuss dog behavior with anyone I train and that's often when you see it's not going to work no matter what you tell/demonstrate.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re : "It's usually not hard to determine how well the person your teaching will do in a few lessons."
....agree completely

i've never trained young kids. in my experience they are usually in the background. and usually not a problem except maybe to learn some control and stay out of the way.
Did she already have an interest or did you have to motivate her ?

it sounded to me like Leslie's problem is with adults who think they have a problem with a "problem dog" that they can't solve without a "trainer" .... due to a lack of motivation, and rationalised by having "no time" etc etc


----------



## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Bob Scott said:


> I started my 12 yr old grand daughter on training her first dog training adventure a few months ago.
> 
> Markers all the way and she's doing a great job.
> 
> ...


 Bob, my daughter took a class in marker training a few years back (when she was same age as your grandchild). She picked it up very quickly, and the teacher told me this is usually the case with youth because they haven't built habits or a story that they tell themselves to justify those habits or why their dogs can't learn. Open minds are key. It helped that the little dog she worked with (a Schipperke) was super smart and food motivated. He just couldn't stop volunteering behaviors. It was fun to watch. 
Leslie, you are a far more patient and generous person than I. Kudos to you for that.


----------



## Nilledem Greg (Jun 8, 2015)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Open minds are key.


Indeed they are. I will add an open heart to training as well, enjoy it and make a connection with your dog. Life to life.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i would rather train kids than adults

most of the time i get contacted because a dog has a "problem" ](*,)
sometimes the problems were made worse because of kids; sometimes not

i would probably teach markers to kids the same way as i would to an adult and i would also thinks kids would learn faster

but i have had VERY little success with owners when i start out with an explanation of markers. i don't even use the word for quite awhile. i only mention once they can learn a system they can apply it to anything they are doing with the dog; including fixing bad behaviors
- it makes no difference how intelligent the owners are. i worked with a couple - both were MD's - figured they could get a grasp of markers if i explained the system ..... a bad choice on my part

i will no longer start out with markers, per se ... that comes way later in the game for me, even tho it is the core of my training

i simply want customers to learn that dogs understand consequences for their actions and if you apply them consistently, the dog learns faster.
- marker application and timing, etc., is the next step, but not the first
- in some ways you might say i use more "Kohler" when i start out with a dog //lol//

i'm sure i am weird in that sense compared to the rest of you, but it has worked well for me and the customers i get

anyway, i have always been detailed oriented and not "big picture" oriented, so maybe that's why it makes sense to me and no one else //lol//


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i would also like to hear some specific ways trainers motivate their customers !!

this membership should be beyond the "keep it fun" and "life to life" level of advice....


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

besides being an ace dog trainer, i'm getting damn good at training the wild ravens to pick my tomatoes as they get ripe 

i have added many many distractions and aversions and they have powered thru all of them ... they're ROCK SOLID pickers now !

only problem with the selfish bastards is they eat em and don't put em in a basket ](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Nicole Stark said:


> Are the actual dog trainers the ones who get paid to train others or their dogs, or is an actual dog trainer someone who does the same regardless of payment?


Badly phrased. I meant people who have experience training other people and their dogs. I can muddle through teaching my dogs, but communicating to someone else how to teach their dog something I have less experience at. I can deal with the dog, it's the human I need help with.

_Trust me Leslie, if she really was interested she would have responded accordingly.
_ 

Absolutely agree.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

rick smith said:


> i would also like to hear some specific ways trainers motivate their customers !!
> 
> this membership should be beyond the "keep it fun" and "life to life" level of advice....



I'm not sue how far motivation can go if the person is there only because the dog has a problem.

That's the vast majority of people going to their first class is for just that reason. 

If you get 6-7 who graduate out of 25 it's a good thing. 

The first class I went to was for the purpose of getting into competition. That was in '65 with a St. Bernard.

Then life happened. The army, marriage, kids, etc.

I got back into it aprox 15 yrs later. Again for the purpose of competition. 


Those going to one on one classes usually will have more motivation. 

Either way, individual training or class training I think showing good examples of what can be accomplished can be huge. 

I think its very important to show a person what their own dog is capable of.

That is usually pretty simple because most folks don't really have correct management of their dog.

Show them how easy it is to convince a dog it can't go through a gate simply because it's open.

They also need to know that what you do with a dog isn't going to happen without work and trying to understand what goes on in the dogs head. 

The vast majority of pet dogs will easily respond to just stepping in front of them with a firm NO when they try and go through the gate or door.

My very first class had an older lady with a Yorkie named Joey. No control, the dog wouldn't respond and failed almost everything the class required.

The lady came up to me at the end of class and thanked me over and over again.

confused the hel out of me because I didn't see much of any improvement in the dog.

She said she could finally open the front door and Joey wouldn't run out.

She got what she wanted in the class!

Another lady in the class with a Cocker spaniel was impressed with my dog's doodling from heel position.

That convinced her to try competition and she turned out to be an excellent trainer.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

another suggestion on building motivation
(this is based on my assumption that most people talk top their dogs way too much and give way to many commands that the dog will ignore)

try and show them how they can control their dog without verbals and without using the dogs name

since most pets are food motivated, start with some simple lures
- it takes most dogs a few seconds or a couple minutes to be lured into a sit.
- do it ... especially AFTER you have asked them to show you how their dog sits ... since that is a command most pet owners feel their dog knows but usually gets blown off and requires multiple commands

then lure them alongside your hip as you walk as if you were starting some heel training.....only need to take a few steps unless the dog is well motivated

then tell them to try the same things
success motivates - even small successes

again i would NOT start out with anything in the way of a discussion about training concepts or techniques
- nor would i tell them to read a book

why do i say that ?
because i've tried it
- given them a short simple read (such as Culture Clash). they never do it and even if tey get the book they can't remember a single take away that they have read //lol//

for me its gotta be hands on and something they can actually accomplish with minimal skills

of course as a training plan gets developed and the steps are explained and sessions start, the motivation level will always wax and wane. that's real life

if you don't have some people skills, you probably will have difficulty with dog training because no matter how much you like working with dogs, success is measured by how well the human owner can learn

there is one more factor that i see a lot
1. people only come to a trainer to fix a problem; not to learn a training system 
2. the problem will only gets fixed when the owner gets more control of their dog (basic OB and reactivity counterconditioning, etc)
3. invariable the owner starts complaining that they like their dog just the way it is and ONLY want to work on the problem issue. they almost NEVER realise that with more control and a better bond, the problems disappear before they even happen

that's been my experience and it is based on a wide variety of personalities. it cuts across all nationalities and all cultures. the only advantage i have here is that in general teachers are given more respect than they get in the states

the saying that you can only "lead a horse to water" is definitely true for me


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Ok, so i saw a new customer today
3 yr husky mix
described as out of control in public, snaps and barks at little kids and other dogs, climbs on people and has out of body experiences in public.
- has never worn a collar because it would choke itself (harness only)
- due to the above, it has not been back in public for 2 years

went to their house for initial eval ... dog was predictably less than described
- took it in public today

been hogging this thread too much, so if anyone is having a similar problem, PM me and i will take the time to explain in detail both training wise and motivation wise


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

rick smith said:


> been hogging this thread too much, so if anyone is having a similar problem, PM me and i will take the time to explain in detail both training wise and motivation wise


I think a before and after video would been more informational. People can talk all day long, I would rather see the results your methods produce.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

this thread is NOT about my confirming my skills as a trainer and whether they work or not ... or need to be confirmed by before and after videos ](*,)
- that is just your confrontational ATTITUDE whenever i post anything ](*,)

but the point you made about "talk" IS VERY VALID !!

the problem with these owners, which i can explain clearly, IN WORDS, is that the wife wants to help and train the dog but the husband is a lazy fuk who keeps messing it up

he gives the dog toys, loves to have it pull him around like a sled dog and jump all over him. including jumping up on the sofa
- when the wife is BREAST FEEDING her newborn babie ](*,)

the WIFE came to me and is super serious about correcting these problems, and of course the answer is simple :
BOTH OWNERS HAVE TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE or the dog suffers

the wife is WAY busier than the husband, who complains about his cushy Navy DESK job being "stressful" //rotflmao//
- the wife has written very clear emails regarding her takeaways from my two eval sessions and is super happy to have me work with the dog. 

even tho i said it would be a waste of time to do much until she can get him on board, i told her i would still take the dog out a few more times in public.
the details of what i did the first day that resulted in the dog goi

public session was simply keeping the dog moving and not allowing it to fixate. also, simply allowing the dog to sit/down in a busy spot where kids/dogs and other people were constantly coming and going, and in and out of a coffee shop. dog stayed engaged and could easily be REengaged after reacting

- she also said it would be a piece of cake for her husband to do the same things if she could get him to change his mindset.
- i told her if he gets serious to send me an email with some feedback on what she passed on to him. 
- she said he is too busy to write emails but that he could call me and talk about it //lol//
- unfortunately she is stuck in the middle "-(
..... another common situation and problem when training with a family

i told her to tell him talk is cheap and free ... and not needed by me. i wanted an email because it takes some (very minimal) effort and requires motivation

we'll see how it goes

brought a helper with me and also took some video so she could show that to her husband too. 
- that should make you happy Sarah.......


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

sorry bout some of the text that got cut off 

but wanted to post it anyway
not because i give a crap that Sarah always belittles my posts, but because the talk is cheap comment IS valid 

hubby 'talked' a good game when i was at their house, but was more interested in playing a vid shooting game than keeping the dog away from mama and the baby, or listening to me describe their dog. when he took it outside to let it pull him over to the grassy area where he can throw balls for it to fetch it was clear why the dog was the way it was

the wife is concerned the dog might knock over the baby once it's on its feet. husband says the dog is "too sweet" to ever do that
neither have owned a dog before, but one is trying to do it the right way.

that's the reality in too many households these days


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

why do i bother taking the time to write on this forum and post the few tiny bits of stuff about dog training that i DO know ?

i'm doing it ALL wrong

gotta learn twitter speak and video posting

come on Lee, post some shit i can laff at ... promise i'll NEVER accuse you of starting a serious thread


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> ... Or points the remote at him and threatens him. :roll:


classic, bet he loves that collar !!!


----------

