# Personal attachment in PPDs



## Thomas Ball

I'd like to know what you guys think:

As you know, there are many companies offering trained PPDs, usually GSDs and Mals. When the new owner comes, they get a one-, maybe two-day training, then leave with the dog. AFAIK Mals are very loyal dogs, how can they transition from their trainers (their family) to the new owner so quickly? IMO the answer is they can't, unless they're not really bonded with any of their trainers. But then will they learn to truly bond with their new family?

In my view, an ideal PPD (for me at least) is one that is somewhat friendly to the general public, and only switches to protection mode if the need arises. Then switches right back. The fawn Cane Corso (Mario) in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbg6fDNdc5Y seems to be a good example of this. Here's what's strange to me: These two guys work together, Mario is Leedor's own dog. Leedor says ".. he'd kill Rob for me now, but at the same time it'll sit and lick him, he's got no personal attachment." And in this short video you can see clips of Mario attacking Rob (who is NOT wearing any equipment), and you can also see him licking Rob. So here's my question: is Mario really that stable, capable of loving and attacking the same guy within a few minutes, or does he just not take protection work with Rob so seriously? (I know sport dogs do it all the time, but here there's no sleeve, no suit...)

And one final question concerning the above video. At 1:05 Leedor calls Mario back to him, and for a split second Mario seems pretty submissive. Is it just me, or would you guys not want to see that in your dog either?

Thanks for your patience, I hope I was clear enough, can't wait to hear what you think!


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## Matt Vandart

I don't like soft dogs. 
I wouldn't train Mals for PP. 
I have seen and trained with dogs that can switch on and off like you say. 
I havn't watched the vid. 
Personally I think one should train ones own PP dog for the reasons you have mentioned. 
All just my opinion, do with it as you will.


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## Thomas Ball

Matt, thanks for your input!
Maybe I gave the wrong impression, I wouldn't buy any trained, or even adult dog, I think training is about 50% of the fun of having a dog!
Why wouldn't you train Mals for PP?


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## Matt Vandart

Because most families/clients would not keep up with the requirements (exercise/simulation) of a working (or pretty much any) Malinois.


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## leslie cassian

Dogs are amazingly adaptable. Every foster dog I've had through my home in the last couple of years has started to look to me and bond within hours. And they've all moved on to permanent homes and bonded with new owners without issue. 

Why should it be any different with an already trained PPD, especially one that's being promoted as a family protection dog at $40,000?

I didn't see anything special about any of the dogs on the video, but then again, I'm not rich enough to be the target market for an executive protection dog, and I've seen enough sport dog training to not be impressed by some video of dogs biting and barking. 

Why an adult trained dog? Because most people don't have the time, resources (access to trained helpers and equipment) and handling skills to take a pup to a high level of training and reliability on their own.


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## Bob Scott

I think most people would be heart broken if they realize how quickly a dog can adjust to a new owner.

Shy, aggressive, outgoing, you name it, it's just a matter of understanding what's in a dogs head, treating it right and feeding it. 

2-3 yr old K9 dogs do it on a regular basis and I doubt there was no connection with former trainers be it something as simple as dominating the dog to putting the effort into it to treat it right. 

It's more about the new owner/trainer then it is the dog.

I do agree about the fun of training a new pup. 

I'd rather do that then compete on a competition field or ring.


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## Thomas Ball

Whatever happened to faithfulness then?  I know there are certain breeds that don't change owners easily (and certain individuals within the breeds). Australian Cattle Dog, Skye Terrier come to mind. And I think the way you raise the dog also has an impact, if you use several handlers on a regular basis, that might help a lot in the transitioning.

15-20 years ago I read somewhere that law enforcement agencies didn't like to use Mals or Dobes because they were to attached to one handler, and didn't change owners quickly. It seems like that has changed (if it was ever true).


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## rick smith

after reading, i'm very tempted to ask you to explain why you think there are some breeds who have trouble changing owners and why you listed those particular breeds....but i won't
- mainly because, as Leslie just pointed out and Bob amplified, dogs are highly adaptable to changing environments (whether good or bad)

- i have worked with dogs who blew off their owners 24/7. i've changed those dogs names and created immediate focus when they heard their new name ... in less than a week
....and i am no super trainer by any means //lol//

so i think i could actually help you more by trying to get you to commit to getting a dog and start training it rather than feed your curiosity 

your many years of research on dogs should have given you a good foundation you can use in the real world, so i'm interested to know how that pans out after you get a dog and post about your dog training journey

i assume you have at least decided on what training system you will be using 
how did you arrive at that decision ?
---- please feel free to elaborate

we had a guy on here who posted everything and anything about his "ideal" dog
- became obsessed with pedigrees of working dogs; especially KNPV lines
- finally got a pup from one of those famous bloodlines
....then disappeared

hope you don't fall into that category

that's why i'd rather spend my online time with someone who has one and asks for help rather than chat about abstract canine hypotheticals


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## Thomas Ball

Rick, no one's asking you to spend time answering my questions (which you did not). I posted the questions, and whoever feels like answering them can do so, nobody's obliged to reply. No need to get nasty. Unless you enjoy it, then please feel free to continue.

There's nothing I'd like to do more than get a dog tomorrow, however, in my present situation I cannot. I'm not sure why it's a sin to discuss hypotheticals on workingdogforum.com , but I'll take your word for it that it is.


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## Matt Vandart

I don't think Rick is being Nasty intentionally, i think he is just being Rick. I don't think Rick is nasty.

Also, wonder what happened to Michael Murphy and his HAAAADKOWAH!! pup.

To the OP are you getting a dog to train in PP? that would be cool


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## Thomas Ball

Matt, I don't know Rick, and I believe you he's not being nasty intentionally, but if no one tells him that being ... let's just say impolite is wrong, he can't be expected to know, now can he? I've read many posts on this site, and A LOT are less than helpful! I can't understand this attitude, I don't believe being rude is beneficial to anyone. I like to believe every member on this site loves dogs, dogsports, and if I were new to dogs and got answers like that a lot, I'd probably leave right away. Why can't we just be nice to each other? If one has nothing constructive to say, why say anything?

Yes, I'm getting a dog to train in PP, but I have to wait a couple of months


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## Matt Vandart

We have told him, loads of times, lol, he's just Rick, he's cool, just put the rick filter on and all will be groovy.

A couple pf months is nothing dude  it'll be over by christmas.... oh wait that's the war, nah that's gonna be at least 30 years

lol.

What you looking for in a dog? any ideas what you are going to get? It'll be cool. I'll help if I can


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## Thomas Ball

I've gotta finish school first, so it's gonna be a long couple of months, or at least it'll feel long

I like active, athletic dogs. I wouldn't want a dog that is "low energy" (or just lazy, as I call them. The Malinois, Cane Corso, Airedale, Alano, Beauceron are on my shortlist. Having a PPD is not something I absolutely need, so the smaller size of the Airedale, for example, is not a huge drawback. And I know Cane Corsi are not usually hyperactive, but I think they can be active enough for me. I'd love to have a Bullmastiff from 100 years ago, when they could run, track, but can't imagine I'd find a good specimen today 

What dogs do you have?


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## Jeffrey Eggenberger

Thomas Ball said:


> I'd like to know what you guys think:
> 
> As you know, there are many companies offering trained PPDs, usually GSDs and Mals. When the new owner comes, they get a one-, maybe two-day training, then leave with the dog. AFAIK Mals are very loyal dogs, how can they transition from their trainers (their family) to the new owner so quickly? IMO the answer is they can't, unless they're not really bonded with any of their trainers. But then will they learn to truly bond with their new family?
> 
> In my view, an ideal PPD (for me at least) is one that is somewhat friendly to the general public, and only switches to protection mode if the need arises. Then switches right back. The fawn Cane Corso (Mario) in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbg6fDNdc5Y seems to be a good example of this. Here's what's strange to me: These two guys work together, Mario is Leedor's own dog. Leedor says ".. he'd kill Rob for me now, but at the same time it'll sit and lick him, he's got no personal attachment." And in this short video you can see clips of Mario attacking Rob (who is NOT wearing any equipment), and you can also see him licking Rob. So here's my question: is Mario really that stable, capable of loving and attacking the same guy within a few minutes, or does he just not take protection work with Rob so seriously? (I know sport dogs do it all the time, but here there's no sleeve, no suit...)
> 
> And one final question concerning the above video. At 1:05 Leedor calls Mario back to him, and for a split second Mario seems pretty submissive. Is it just me, or would you guys not want to see that in your dog either?
> 
> Thanks for your patience, I hope I was clear enough, can't wait to hear what you think!


Well, for one, he IS wearing protection UNDER his jacket.
Also, when you are training dogs in bite work, they are not angry when they are biting a sleeve or bite suit, they are having a world of fun!! Trainers are using prey drive to command the bite and attack. Of course the unfortunate intruder does not care if the dog latched onto his leg was having fun during his training, but he would appreciate if he was also trained well in the "out"!
As far as the dog becoming part of your "pack", that would happen as you start to handle the dog, and it learns to trust you.


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## Matt Vandart

Thomas Ball said:


> I've gotta finish school first, so it's gonna be a long couple of months, or at least it'll feel long
> 
> I like active, athletic dogs. I wouldn't want a dog that is "low energy" (or just lazy, as I call them. The Malinois, Cane Corso, Airedale, Alano, Beauceron are on my shortlist. Having a PPD is not something I absolutely need, so the smaller size of the Airedale, for example, is not a huge drawback. And I know Cane Corsi are not usually hyperactive, but I think they can be active enough for me. I'd love to have a Bullmastiff from 100 years ago, when they could run, track, but can't imagine I'd find a good specimen today
> 
> What dogs do you have?


If you don't need one, don't have one  and hope you never need one, that would be cool.

I suggest you find a dogsport club first, IPO, ringsport etc I wish I had at your age tbh. 
Where you located?

Airedale is a good choice 

You can see my dogs on facebook, just search my name dude.


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## Thomas Ball

Jeffrey, at 1:09 he is not wearing protection gear, not even wearing a jacket, just a T-shirt.
I agree, dogs are having fun when doing protection work, especially sport dogs. But what happens, when you muzzle your dog and there's real fight between the decoy and the dog? I think most dogs realize then that it's for real, not just a game (ie they're not in prey drive all the time). (There's no muzzle work in the video.)
I'm just surprised these dogs change owners that easily. Everyone's heard of dogs whose owners died and they were miserable till their death. This shows that at least some dogs are faithful, a dog that changes owners in 2 days is not (in my interpretation).


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## Thomas Ball

Matt Vandart said:


> If you don't need one, don't have one  and hope you never need one, that would be cool.


People don't need lots of things, but have them. Nobody needs a Porsche, many people have one (or more). A working dog is a happy dog, and protection comes naturally to most of the breeds I like, so why not.

I'm in St. Louis, MO at the moment, but going to Europe for work probably.


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## Matt Vandart

Not the same as a Porsche at all.


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## leslie cassian

Thomas Ball said:


> Jeffrey, at 1:09 he is not wearing protection gear, not even wearing a jacket, just a T-shirt.
> I agree, dogs are having fun when doing protection work, especially sport dogs. But what happens, when you muzzle your dog and there's real fight between the decoy and the dog? I think most dogs realize then that it's for real, not just a game (ie they're not in prey drive all the time). (There's no muzzle work in the video.)
> I'm just surprised these dogs change owners that easily. Everyone's heard of dogs whose owners died and they were miserable till their death. This shows that at least some dogs are faithful, a dog that changes owners in 2 days is not (in my interpretation).


He's not taking any bites, either, just teasing the dog. I can make either of my dogs light up on someone whether they are wearing equipment or not... doesn't make them anything special, just makes them dogs that like to do bitework.

Have you ever even had a dog? Or been around any working dogs?


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## Sarah Platts

Not sure that a dog specifically trained for PP is the only road. Not when I pick up the paper and read where this family dog or that one saved "their" family for this danger or that one. Just for curiosity, is anyone here know where their PP saved them from something? I guess I'm wondering how many times, if any, your PP dog had to actually perform that service? Other than just hanging around looking big and serious.


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## rick smith

long story but might be relevant for some readers....

last week i was out with my assistant trainer who has been working with me a LOT the last few months and has amazing natural dog sense. she's the only person who can take my dog out in public 

so we are in a dark park late at night "chatting" on a bench back in the corner...
my dog was with us as he always is ... laying down
suddenly gets up and slowly walks out to the end of the lead
ears go forward, tail raises and he goes into a very low growl staring in one direction. nothing more than a low growl but NOT a normal behavior i see 

we are both kinda fascinated at this and try and figure out what the heck is causing it because cats walking around or a wandering weasel doesn't get this kinda vocal.
- couple minutes pass by and we finally see someone hanging around next to a tree about 20 odd meters away. we get up and walk over and it's some guy who has no legit reason for standing there watching us at 2:00am 
- walked over with the dog and he maintained the focus on the guy and kept up the growling. i purposely did NOT try and calm him 

the guy was visibly nervous and asked if the dog would bite. i said the dog LOVES to bite; which is true //LOL//
- guy slinked off

we both figured it was a weirdo who was hoping he might get a free show of some couple doing the nasty //LOL//

my dog is NOT trained AT ALL as a PPD. besides being unnecessary here in Japan, he does not have the basic temperament to be a good one
( and i have clearly stated before what i think the definition of a PPD is ) 

but in my opinion, that is all that 90% of owners need, whether they live in Japan, or a crime infested getto
- a dog who will alert and intimidate and calm back down when told
- why ?? because i am a FIRM believer that 99.99% of all the scumbags on the earth know NOTHING about canine behavior 

can't wait to hear all the stories of PPD's who saved their family from being attacked and defended them by engaging the bad guy(s).

*** but not interested to read about any stories similar to what i just posted because they have NOTHING to do with a PPD doing its job


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## Jeffrey Eggenberger

Thomas Ball said:


> Jeffrey, at 1:09 he is not wearing protection gear, not even wearing a jacket, just a T-shirt.
> I agree, dogs are having fun when doing protection work, especially sport dogs. But what happens, when you muzzle your dog and there's real fight between the decoy and the dog? I think most dogs realize then that it's for real, not just a game (ie they're not in prey drive all the time). (There's no muzzle work in the video.)
> I'm just surprised these dogs change owners that easily. Everyone's heard of dogs whose owners died and they were miserable till their death. This shows that at least some dogs are faithful, a dog that changes owners in 2 days is not (in my interpretation).


Ah yes, he is also not doing bite work, just using technique to raise motivation.

When I go on long trips, I have taken my Jack Russell to a friends house. They are a nice family. Even now when they come over the house she reacts like a Pack leader has entered the house just like when I come home. It is just that way with dogs, they see it as a pack, not a marriage. Nothing wrong with recognizing a new pack leader, no dis-loyalty in that.


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## Bob Scott

When a wolf is driven from the pack it will hook up with another pack given the chance.

That wolf probably left it's "real" family of wolves.

No different then a dog connecting with a new owner. 

Loyalty is the hand that feeds you!


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## shelle fenton

Ok, i did watch the video. I am astounded that these dogs cost so much!

I fear i am personally too attached to my dogs, that i would flounder if they went elsewhere.
I had up till i read this thread, thought they would miss me too. Perhaps not it seems.
Cept i have a rottie, who are renowned for loyalty, and a Mal pup booked. And a GSD, that would just adjust rapidly? Surely not! After 8yrs together?



Snot nice is it?


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald

It depends on how you look at it tho'. 

I've had one as a kid left with others for a year that adjusted realy well ( after trying to chase the car as we left him and was missing an hour.) The people he was left with wanted to keep him, but the deal was he was mine unless he was happier there. 
Pick up day he ran barking at the car when we pulled up but sat and howled when i called his name out the window. He sat in the car as soon as the door was opened and for the hour we were there refused to get out.

My current bitch every one says is one man, but only 'cos she blows them all off, completely ignore them. I think she would miss me in most pet homes, but would revel in the change if she got serious training still in in a family environment.

Her daughter is different.More dependent on me for social cues and very slow to trust others. If she wasn't with a patient person willing to win her trust before expecting to see her or some one she knows it would be doubtful if could adjust. 

The first 2 dogs are better in themselves, and for my peace of mind. Doesn't mean they wouldn't miss me either.


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## Jay Quinn

haven't read through the whole thread but don't currently have time... just adding my 2c on dogs and bonding... 

from what i have seen over the years, i think it really depends on the dog... a dog that is trained in a kennel environment with multiple handlers will often bond quickly once they are placed with their working handler or family... i have also seen kennels where the decoys will handle the dogs, take them out of the kennels, load them into trailers, etc... and then someone else will handle the dog while they work it... the dogs learn that unless that person is behaving in a threatening manner, then they are not a threat... 

i have 4 dogs here atm, 3 are patrol trained and one is operational USAR... 
my USAR dog will work for anyone who knows his commands, even if i am present... whoever has pointed him in the right direction and released him to search is who he will look to for guidance... 
my eldest patrol dog will work for anyone, and has been borrowed several times by his main decoy to go and work shifts... i could hand his leash to pretty much anyone and i'm pretty bloody sure he would even take a civil bite on me if i stirred him up with someone else handling him... he will sook up to just about anyone and is quite happy to go from chompy times to pats in a matter of minutes, though i will muzzle him for safety he has never tried to have a go at anyone... 

my next youngest patrol dog could not be multi-handled but would quite happily move to another home and bond with and work for another handler... and my youngest patrol dog is a one-handler dog - me, and he has no interest in befriending anyone else... i left him kenneled with some friends of mine who understand working dogs when i was travelling for 2 months, and even after that length of time he was still very grudging of any kind of contact with them that did not involve food... he was not nasty towards them but would just keep his distance... he'd bark to say stay away at first but after a while the barking settled down and he just stayed away... he is quite social, obnoxiously so, when he is with me, and works fantastically for me, has had a live bite and several good real muzzle fights, but if i am not around he does not care for other humans at all... 

i'll come back and read the rest of this thread later... but yes it is possible for dogs to be stable enough to be decoyed for and handled by the same person... and most dogs will quite willingly bond with new handlers and the process will begin quite quickly...


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## Jay Quinn

this is a pic where the roles are reversed with my oldest patrol dog - the bloke handling the dog has taken hundreds of bites from him in the last 9yrs, and i'm wearing the suit... doggo cares not, so long as he gets to chomp on someone!


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## Matt Vandart

Sarah Platts said:


> Not sure that a dog specifically trained for PP is the only road. Not when I pick up the paper and read where this family dog or that one saved "their" family for this danger or that one. Just for curiosity, is anyone here know where their PP saved them from something? I guess I'm wondering how many times, if any, your PP dog had to actually perform that service? Other than just hanging around looking big and serious.


My doberman "Pickle" who is dead 4 years ago now, saved my GF's ass twice. Once when a junkie knocked the door and asked to borrow a lighter then barged their way in, she gripped his ass and wouldn't let go,the dog not my GF, this was BEFORE she was trained, about 6months old I think, was like 15ish years ago now. The other time when someone else (probably also a junkie) climbed through a window and got a face full of teeth for his efforts, like literally.
She 'saved my ass' countless times when out and about (we used to live in a very ropey area, similar to 'the projects'? in the US)

Both my current dobes have also performed in the real world. Tilly has nailed an aggressor (complicated story behind that one, the dude wasn't an "intruder" but got agressive due to excess alchohol) and held two other actual "univited guests" with perfect textbook "Bark and hold" till I got there. I really should lock my door...... lol.

Becca did something completely different and probably not anything to do with PP training, which they are NOT trained in. An out of control Rottie charged across the park and was heading straight for the GF (jeez she gets herself in some shit) and had definite intentions of damage, I was a good bit away with Becca who just took off and smashed into the Rottie and off the Rottie ran with his tail between his legs and yes he had a tail, lol. No sign of the owner but I knew who's it was, a security dude that lived in the local estate. The same dog attacked a mates staffy and nearly had his kid (he lived next door) they also had a ****ed up mali which was worse, they left soon after the kid event.

Disclaimer: due to the current ridiculously draconian laws in the uk re: dogs, all of the above is a complete fabrication and I am lying to make friends.


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## Joby Becker

that is trained response at 1:09, action is performed by person who also regularly takes bites in training and generally agitates the dog to get that response. dog is showing reaction, whether the action would be followed through with a full on attack, a bite, or a nip or maybe nothing who really knows.

this type of thing is very common in training, but not really common in real life as a real threat, meaning people dont usually agitate dogs directly in real life. most "agitators" and "helpers" ahve done this type of thing. it

I have had some VERY loyal, fairly well trained dogs that would react the same way to ME if I did that to them. Almost all of my dogs would bite me if I chose to do something really stupid with them, as would many many dogs. Not all but many for sure.

most working dogs that are trained to protect handlers I would guess are bought as young adults not puppies, dogs CAN bond very fast with new handlers.

also remember that many dogs are reacting in PP role / training as a perceived threat to themselves and/or their owners/territory.. whatever

at 1:09 that was a "threat" to the dog, not the owner. and one that dog has seen many times I am sure, and most likely did not view it as a REAL threat, just doing what he is supposed to do...

a regular agitator can certainly make any decent dog look like a killer, or tough..whether the dog will react to other real life scenarios or training is not always a given.

I have seen many a dog crumble or have major setbacks in training when new people and or techniques/stress are applied. I have also known many dogs that failed in real life that look real good in training.

done rambling...


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## Matt Vandart

Good ramblingz


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## shelle fenton

I had a dog, that i rescued as a 1yr pup, having spent its first year, in a car breakers yard on chain as an alarm dog/and at night off chain in secure yard, as protection of the business.
Very unhealthy pup. Very reactive to humans and everything else! Came good in 3 months with us. 
(us being me, owner/handler and more importantly, 2 other dogs that were stronger, fitter, and higher in my pack order than new dog). 

Rehomed him to a nice bloke, he was firstly not impressed, then neutral to the bloke initially, but then formed a bond with him, over several visits, Then rehomed to bloke once i was confident bloke could handle him. he could be stubborn and wilfull and very strong. Thankfully slower than any GSD or rottie, and easy to read also. 

Fast forward 3yrs. And the now adult dog, had taken over this blokes home, and alpha role. Dog was bullying the owner, intimidating everyone, taking possession of the sofa, and generally being a pain in the ass and dangerous. so he was returning him to me. I saw his car coming, and the dog was loose in back seat/front seat/tyring to get out of the window at me. Bloke clipped lead on, and the dog dragged him to me. No control, no bond evident with the owner during the drop off visit. I took the leash, as there was another dog coming along pavement, and the dog was out of control and dog reactive unless handled correctly. The dog went off, as the other approached, so corrected and told to DROP! which he did and shut up. 
the dog immediately settled down, the minute the leash changed hands. He just behaved as if id lent him to the bloke for the afternoon, not 3yrs. Even took his old spot on my deck up instantly. 

Bloke was amazed, totally different to me than he. And as we sat drinking our coffee, dog's head in my lap, as it always used to be when i was sat down. He ignored his owner entirely. Never apparently had the dog done that to him. In 3yrs, he'd never done this. To him, or his wife who was scared of the dog. 
This was a 65kg French Mastiff. A breed known for loyalty to one person. so perhaps a different breed /different bonding effect? 

So what im saying, is i wonder if certain breeds, known for loyalty to one person, and mastiff is a good example, perhaps attach more?

This particular dog, when working with my behaviorist, would just lay down if they took the leash. and look in other way. Ignore everything except force, which is was quite happy to match you on, and win if not managed with equipment.


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## Brian McQuain

Matt Vandart said:


> I don't think Rick is being Nasty intentionally, i think he is just being Rick. I don't think Rick is nasty.
> 
> Also, wonder what happened to Michael Murphy and his HAAAADKOWAH!! pup.
> 
> To the OP are you getting a dog to train in PP? that would be cool


Oh yeah. That dude. Anybody know? Dog eat him?


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## Bob Scott

Brian McQuain said:


> Oh yeah. That dude. Anybody know? Dog eat him?



With a bit of luck! :twisted: :wink:


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## Catherine Gervin

Disclaimer: due to the current ridiculously draconian laws in the uk re: dogs, all of the above is a complete fabrication and I am lying to make friends.[/QUOTE]

is this above statement because you fear reprisal from certain government entities? i mean, you have a girlfriend and a house full of dogs--how many other friends does a person need?

i've yet to formally train a dog in PP but i have owned two different dogs with the intention of having them keep me safe and both certainly made a show of seeking to do exactly that. my long-deceased APBT was mostly busy crittering during the day, unless she saw something she didn't approve of and then she got very close to me and put a stare and a low growl out at whatever/whomever the suspicious party was until we were around two blocks away. had a very creepy pervert experience walking her in a park on a trail that ran near the road--fellas, women you don't know do not want to suddenly see your penis. truly. unless that is their line of work, it will just freak them out-- i was the idiot who believed he really did need directions, which got me close enough to his driver's side window to see that what he really needed was to be arrested, and right as i gasped and moved to back away, up popped my dog. she was just barking and digging at the glass but it got his vehicle to tear out of there instantly. 
she also kept vigil when we'd do punk rock camp outs and i'd pass out on a blanket by the sixth band...much better security system than the boyfriend had been.
she was on me like an extra coat whenever we went out at night and i took her everywhere i went because i felt safe with her around. i was more mess than human back then and i'm sure she could feel my weakness and chemical irregularities and felt she had to take control of the situation because no one else was, or whatever real reason is behind it, but that dog took good care of me and nobody ever taught her that she ought to, she just did.


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald

Ditto with my lot here. 

Rick mentioned he thinks a good P.P is a very different dog to a sporting or security dog and I agree.

No incidents where I can say unreservedly the any of mine have saved the day- But plenty where they were acting to do that. Who know if things would have been different had the dogs not been there.

People aren't so inclined to push it when they get sat on their asses for making moves that could be interpreted as aggressive.


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