# Broken Toe?



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Well I think Grim wound up breaking his toe ... perhaps. Have not been to vet but there is a slight bump on inside front leg between the toe and the wrist. He came back limping from play Sat am but was fine before. 

All toes bend, inspected pads and between pads and all we can see is the small bump there and some slight swelling across the top of the paw. And the wrist of that leg seems to be a little stiffer than the other wrist -- but no place am I getting any retraction from pain.

So, at what point would you go to a vet? I know the last dog I had who had a broken toe, the vet did more harm than good with a splint which the dog licked and got a skin infection under. So for now I am just not working him, or playing ball....

The limp is obvious but he is putting weight on the foot and does put it down when he walks - just does not let it go as far back as normal before he lifts it.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

I would go to the vet now, it may not be a broken toe ,. may be something else, i wouldnt self diagnos this, but i also wouldnt splint a broken toe


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

With a sprained or broken toe our vet does nothing exept give some pain med. It heal up by itself in about 4-6 wks


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I agree with Tami, I'd at least go and get it diagnosed. If it's an outside toe my vet hasn't done anything, just let it heal up. I did have one dog break both of his "middle" toes on a front foot many years ago, that time the vet put a cast on but it might have been because they were A) weigth bearing B) they were both spiral breaks.

Either way though I'd at least want it diagnosed so I knew what sort of treatment to pursue, if any. Other things can present like this, I was positive Mac broke a toe one time, limping, foot swelled, etc. Took him to the vet, who was also sure it was broken based on symptoms and tenderness in one toe. X-rays showed nothing, final diagnosis was a spider bite, which he was given meds for.

As a side note, the last couple of dogs I've seen break a toe, it was pretty obvious, when we manipulated their toes, there was a definite "crunch" from the broken one as the ends moved against each other. Good dog, I didn't get bit :-o


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I went ahead and made an appt for this evening. I figure it will give me an idea of how long I need to do excercise/work restriction anyway. If something is broken, don't want to rebreak it. 

At least the stinking puppy passed the stuffing from a dog bed he got ahold of. (Was between rock and hard place with that. Next time he has to spend the night in my truck and it is cold, I will fill it with straw)


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Last year I thought one of my dogs had broken a leg from the way it was dangling. Brought him in and my vet said no way, breaks are very easy to tell because of the crunching they make when you manipulate it. Worth an appointment though.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

The lump is between the wrist and the moveable part of the toe so maybe it is one of those bones or a tendon as they are there but normally the flex is in the wrist which does have a limited range of motion...all the digits move fine but ... yeah.... I need to be able to predict for my team how long he will be out of commission as a cadaver dog. I prolly should not work him limping.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

just had a broken toe and the vet said rest the dog for between 2wks and a month. the vet took about 10 xrays to find the break,


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Yep snapped the outer front toe right in two. All else looks good. Said if i taped his foot i could continue with training him onlead as soon as the swelling goes down......i am just going to so stuff to maintain his nasal receptors for the spectrum of cadaver odor


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

On the toe, yea, just ask the vet to x-ray it, but that you want to know what's going on before acting futher.

On the puppy, I'd suggest giving it something it likes to chew on for trips. I'll give mine beef knuckle bones that one of my other dogs has chewed all the fat off of. They'll gnaw on one of those for hours. Nothing is fullproof though. The nearly two year old did chew up one of my cheap mudders, but it only cost me ten bucks and a knucle bone is nearly that. He didn't ingest any of it, just chewed it up. He was very proud. This is a phase that most dogs pass out of with age. 

*chuckle* Course my breed rescue is the exception to that rule which is why he gets crated with nothing at all. He used to have a nice crate water bowl, but chewed that up to. As he only gets crated indoors for special occassions, like the neighbor firing concussion fireworks off over my land, it's not a big deal.

Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Yeah, I had done that with the puppy then the morning after we trained all day, camped all night, we get a search callout while cooking breakfast, and I am in the command trailer paying little attention to his needs other than - food, water, and bathroom.....

He was good until basically his 2nd day in the crate which was not planned but no time to take him home. he normally would not go on a callout until he was operational.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Next time that happens, consider just tying him up under you at base. It'll be good socialization for him and everyone will help you keep an eye on him.

Jim


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Sorta kinda related, its about a toe. These are a few picks I just took of the female DS I have at my house. She has been getting introduced some ninja agility and climbing over the past few weeks with no injuries. But when I am at home every time I run out the house for a minute she follows me and sits at the door waiting for me to come back in. Well I did not think to much of it and the other day I opened the door and tagged her toe. The toe nail was sticking up a good deal and it just fell out today. unfortunately it did hurt her the past few days, hopefully it will grow back normal or not at all. She trained me to open the doors real slow now. I’ll give her another day or two and get her back to light duty, a little tracking or something.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

The vet sent me off with some metacam and i dont know why i let him do that.....i got home and figured dog is already ticked off he is not working and chasing balls...i figure a little pain may reduce further damage....
pe i can convince them to take it back when beau goes gor next puppy shots....


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I been soaking her foot in epson salt. My grandmother made me soak every cut I got in epson salt when I was little. It just stuck with me.


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## Chris Jones II (Mar 20, 2011)

What do you mean by "maintain nasal receptors" ?


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Just keep him tuned into the target odor for detection work (in his case human remains). I have heard more than Jim say that the receptors replace themselves every 3-4 months and an adapation to hunting is to grow more receptors to the scents most productive for the dog.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Look for "K9 Suspect Discrimination" by Schoon and Haak, circa 2002. 
Nasal Receptors discussion is one of the nice tidbits that you'll find in there.

Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Ah one of the books I borrowed and read but did not buy......good book.......missed that part but had heard it from several.

Grim is not too happy about the restrictions though.

Beau is getting lots of time though doing 3-4 small hides a day. He is still trying to pick them up so I have to make sure things are anchored. Yesterday he drug a distractor cow skull out and got a repeated "leave it"..honestly I forget it was there...it was covered up by a bush..today he ignored it for a much smaller HR source and got a big reward.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

On the non-human remains, it's better if he does grab it and you correct him then making a melodrama out of it. With the human remains, mesh tea balls are good for small bones and teeth. Suet cages are good for the larger stuff. Anything wet should be placed where he can "almost" get to the source, but not quite. Place under bricks, cinder blocks, firewood pile, large rocks, in boxes, etc. 

Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I have quite a few suet cages but had not thought about the tea balls. Good idea. 

I have also taken a zip tie and a fishing leader cable and pinned down bones that way like ribs. When I have done that I have done the same with distractor animal bones someone will find some day and go, WTF? because the dogs don't find them and I forget where they are. (I mark the human bones with a GPS but the dogs find them)

A tent peg is pretty good for a vertebra as it wil go through the opening for the spinal cord.

I have found in the woods animals usually don't try to drag off or mess with the bones. Decomp is another story.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

In 14 years doing HRD, I think I've lost three bones to animals. Putting a bone in a critter hole for training probably wasn't the smartest idea, but I thought the hole was abandoned. Greasy bones, I put in suet cages and cable tie those as the major scent is really adipose tissue rather than bone.

The tea balls also come in handy for highs with small bone/tissue combinations. 

If the puppy can't quite get to the source, it gives you opportunities to watch its drive. Eventually, you'll want to place sources like this so that you can pretend to not be in the area with the dog to see what it does to sources when you aren't around.

Jim


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