# Renal Dysplasia in GSD's?



## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

I took my 11mo old GSD in to the Vet today to have a retained tooth removed. He is a normal, highly active working line shepherd, 82lbs, no issues other than the retained tooth. As part of the pre-work for the surgery they did a blood panel and urine panel on my pup. The vet called me and let me know that they were very concerned with his renal test results. Here is what they were:

BUN: 37 NORMAL (7-25)
PHOS: 6.7 NORMAL (2.6 - 6.8 )
CREATINE 2.3 NORMAL (.4-1.4)
SP. GRAV 1.019 NORMAL (1)

The vet is going to run an ultrasound to see if there are any deformities of the kidneys so I will know that later today. My general question to the board is does anyone have experience with this type of disease? From the research I've done it doesn't seem to be a common genetic disease in GSD's although it is prevalent in others. Any help would be appreciated.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

If it isn't something outlandishly expensive, I would wait a week and take the dog to another reputable vet and ask for a blood panel and a urine panel without even hinting it has been done just to see. If they come out about the same, then you may have something to worry about. Don't tell either vet you are doing this. Second opinions never hurt.


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

No it isn't out of the ballpark expensive so good idea, alot will depend on what the ultrasound looks like and if the kidneys are visibly deformed or unhealthy


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

OK, just got off the phone with the Vet, good news is that there is no deformity in the kidneys or congenital issues, bad news is that it appears the kidneys are inflammed so they suspect some sort of toxic agent or perhaps leptospirosis. So they are sending out the blood panel to the microbiologists for the Lepto, they say it's possible he could have picked it up from contaminated feces or urine and that there have been a few cases coming into their clinic lately, I guess there is a type that the innoculation doesn't always work against. Also they are going to keep him on a fluid flush to see if it is a toxic agent that he could have ingested and then re-run the panels tomorrow to see if the results are different. Keeping my fingers crossed because either is able to be treated so just have to wait.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

It is always something John. I just got off the phone with a dog food company to see if they are having a problem with their puppy chow. Put a new bag in one yard yesterday. Was cleaning the yard a little bit ago and what is usually rock hard turds is now all runny mush. Waiting for them to call back right now.


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Glad to hear that it does not sound like renal dysplasia. I would also make sure that a regular urine culture is done to rule out any other infections and ask if there was any protein in the urine. Protein in the urine may help direct to a diagnosis...as lyme disease is a common cause for that combination of symptoms. Good luck and keep us updated.


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

If your dog is raw fed the analysis will present differently. The BUN's on my dogs present as abnormal and over the years I realize that they are normal for my dogs. The test was designed around kibble fed dogs . Just an idea


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

BUN & Creatinine levels are higher in a raw fed dog. Here is an article that I have bookmarked:

So they draw her blood sample and the creatinine and BUN (blood urea nitrogen) numbers come back high--at least according to the folks drawing the blood--and they want to consult with our vet before proceeding with the donation. They call the vet, and sure enough, our vet confirms that raw-fed dogs DO have higher than average readings for these two kidney function tests--and often higher values for red blood cell count too. 

A lab not used to dealing with blood tests on raw-fed dogs might flag them as "too high." Apparently, "normal" for raw-fed dogs is different than the normal for kibble fed dogs in these values. Doesn't mean anything is wrong, they just have more available protein in their diet, and the numbers reflect that. 

Ya learn something new every day.

This link explains a little more--I found it consulting Dr. Google. 

http://www.mountaindogfood.com/RawHelp/Raw_Food_Study.pdf



QUOTE: Effect of diet on test results 
A study comparing the blood work of raw-fed and kibble-fed dogs found that the raw-fed dogs had higher average BUN and PCV (hematocrit, a measure of red blood cells) values. Hemoglobin, MCH, MCV and MCHC (all measures of red blood cells), total protein, albumin, creatinine, BUN/creatinine ratio, sodium, osmolality, and magnesium were also statistically higher, and total leukocyte, neutrophil, and lymphocyte counts (all measures of white blood cells), phosphorus, and glucose were statistically lower according to a detailed analysis. Note that all values were still within normal ranges or only very slightly different; values that are well outside the normal range are always meaningful. Fasting (no food, but continue to give water) for at least 12 hours before the blood is drawn should eliminate most effects on blood tests that are caused by diet. This is a good idea for all dogs, as a recent meal can also cause lipemia, making blood test results less reliable (see below). 
END from http://www.dogaware.com/misc.html#bloodtest

Also,
A study was also done to test whether dogs fed a high-protein diet would have microalbinuria (albumin in the urine, which can be an early sign of kidney disease), and the results were negative; a high-protein diet does not appear to cause microalbinuria. There is speculation that a high-protein diet may also increase urine protein-creatinine (UPC) ratio, though once again, it should remain within the normal range (up to 0.5). If this is a concern, feed your dog a lower-protein diet for a day or two before the test.

Temporary changes in test results due to high-protein diets are not a concern and do not indicate that the diet is harmful. They are the natural result of protein waste products, which the body is designed to handle, and they vary only because most dogs are still fed diets that are high in carbohydrates, which distorts the average values seen on test results. Remember that "average" is not the same as "normal" or "healthy." For more information on the safety of high-protein diets, see High-Protein Diets. I have additional information on my web site in the sections on kidney disease and liver disease. (Mary Strauss)

and
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...FoHQHK5kGzVFwA
Temporary changes in test results due to high-protein diets are not a concern and do not indicate that the diet is harmful. They are the natural result of protein waste products, which the body is designed to handle, and they vary only because most dogs are still fed diets that are high in carbohydrates, which distorts the average values seen on test results.
________________________________________
Forgot to mention...total protein usually goes up in an animal because of dehydration, so that's the most common reason. Next, there are two components of total protein in the blood. First is the globulins (you may have heard of immunoglobulins, particularly if you raise cattle or horses, which are part of the globulin class). They tend to go up if there is inflammation present (like with an infection that Cyra has). Albumin is the second component and it's a very important transport protein in the body. Albumin tends to go down if there is inflammation is present, as it is a negative acute phase protein. Hope that makes a tiny bit of sense, but in her case, the protein levels make sense for the inflammation. We can't speculate on the renal function unless we have a urine specific gravity.

Here's some info from Mary Strauss on that "high creatine, high protein" blood result:

Effect of diet on test results 

A study comparing the blood work of raw-fed and kibble-fed dogs found that the raw-fed dogs had higher average BUN and PCV (hematocrit, a measure of red blood cells) values. Hemoglobin, MCH, MCV and MCHC (all measures of red blood cells), total protein, albumin, creatinine, BUN/creatinine ratio, sodium, osmolality, and magnesium were also statistically higher, and total leukocyte, neutrophil, and lymphocyte counts (all measures of white blood cells), phosphorus, and glucose were statistically lower according to a detailed analysis. Note that all values were still within normal ranges or only very slightly different; values that are well outside the normal range are always meaningful. Fasting (no food, but continue to give water) for at least 12 hours before the blood is drawn should eliminate most effects on blood tests that are caused by diet. This is a good idea for all dogs, as a recent meal can also cause lipemia, making blood test results less reliable (see below).

quoted from http://www.dogaware.com/misc.html#bloodtest


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

It is very true that high protein meals result in an increase in renal values...however this dogs creatinine is a little higher than I would expect with just a diet issue. Of course when normal values are determined they take 2 standard deviations from the mean...so this means that certain dogs will be higher or lower, yet still be normal. His urine specific gravity is also on the low end of normal. The best way to determine this would be to do a diet trial and take him off the raw for a couple of weeks and retest him. Here are the normals that were obtained by Antech diagnostics for over 200 healthy dogs fed raw compared to dogs on commercial dog food.

Hematocrit 51.0​±6.6 – 53.5±5.6% 47.6±6.1% 37 – 55%
BUN 18.8±6.9 – 22.0±8.7mg/dL 15.5±4.7mg/dL 6 – 24mg/dL​
Creatinine 1.20±0.34mg/dL  0.4 – 1.4mg/dL


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Obviously the dog needs parathyroid surgery.


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

OK picked my dog up from his night at the vet's (kept him there so I didn't have to deal with the catheter and cone), they ran another sample on his urine and his numbers had decreased to within normal specs. The vet thinks that his results are most likely from lepto infection but can't confirm until we get the microbiology report back. If that is negative then we will have to retest in about 30 days to see if these results have stayed the same or if there is an increase again. Vet recommended that we do not make any dietary changes at this time. So it's a bit of a waiting game at the moment, but he's home and busy playing tug with everyone. The upside of all of this is that the original reason I took him in was to have his deciduous canine removed, well chewing on the metal crate at the Vet's last night took care of that, no tooth anymore. Go figure #-o


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

OK, just got the blood titers back from microbiology and yep my dog has high titers for the forms of lepto that are not currently vaccinated for so that answers the inflammed kidney issues. The course of treatment is heavy antibiotics, first round of Amoxicillin for 2 weeks then a month of Doxicyclin (sp) to kill it off. I'll have to see what the long term prevention technique is especially if this is fairly prevelent in the wildlife around central Texas. 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this issue.


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

Here are some links on Lepto if you are interested.

http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/articles/canine_lepto/index_canine_lepto.php

http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresource...stic-updates/realpcr-canine-leptospirosis.pdf

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.c...ay-canine-leptospirosis-vaccine-approved.aspx


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