# What do you think of this training DVD?



## Kailey Rhoades (Jun 13, 2013)

I am really looking forward to start working cows with my border collie puppy. But I am uncertain which DVD I should get. I've looked around, and I found this one. http://www.theperfectstockdog.com/Videos.htm 
They start them on cows which is what I want because I do not have any sheep to start on. Do you know if this is a good one or should I look elsewhere? Also, where can I find a whistle?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Unless the dog comes from lines that are strong with cattle the Border Collie isn't the best breed for the work. 
In my limited herding experience starting a pup of any breed on cattle can be a disaster unless your 100% qualified to do so.


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## Kailey Rhoades (Jun 13, 2013)

Your post confuses me....... 
Are you saying that Border Collie's typically aren't good cowdogs?


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## Ingrid Rosenquist (Mar 27, 2006)

Where in WA state are you located? In Arlington, WA Sara-Jo Gahm has several clinics a year at her place with trainers like Kent and Lori Herbel ( http://xpranch.com/ ). They raise BCs that work sheep as well as cattle. 

SJ's website is http://www.onthelambfarm.com/ and she works both her ACDs and BCs on sheep and cattle. She would also be able to put you in touch with individuals closer to you as she is more northern WA. 

I would contact both SJ and the Herbels for advice on how to get started working cattle with BCs.


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## Kailey Rhoades (Jun 13, 2013)

According to google maps, they are 4 hours and 23 minutes from us. Thank you for the information and links! I'll see about contacting her.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kailey Rhoades said:


> Your post confuses me.......
> Are you saying that Border Collie's typically aren't good cowdogs?



In my limited experience I've seen a few and there are lines that are but the BC is a sheep dog. Many don't have the character to handle cattle.


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

Kailey Rhoades said:


> I am really looking forward to start working cows with my border collie puppy. But I am uncertain which DVD I should get. I've looked around, and I found this one. http://www.theperfectstockdog.com/Videos.htm
> They start them on cows which is what I want because I do not have any sheep to start on. Do you know if this is a good one or should I look elsewhere? Also, where can I find a whistle?


I have the DVD. I think it has some good info. Keep in mind, those calves are already dog broke. They are well educated to move away from a dog. I wouldn't put a pup on green cattle. That could be a wreck and potentially ruin your pup for future work. 

I really like the Roy Cox dvd , too. It is a little different style. But, make sense to me 

IIRC, I ordered one of my whistles online, from Border Collies in Action. 

You got a great suggestion about contacting the Herbels and someone that can help you find a person close to you. DVD's are great, but there is really no substitute for "in the flesh" training on stock that is appropriate for your pooch. Good luck! Some of the most fun I have ever had has been using my dog on the cattle here on the ranch :grin:


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Agree that there is some good information in the Ben Means DVDs. I had the one that starts the dog on ducks and then goes to cattle. First thing he tells you is that his method is for a very keen dog with considerable drive. You also need a good set of "dog broke" weaner calves to start a dog on you need to be able to read cows and the dog/stock relationship. If you are new at this, then don't undertake it without help. Cattle can kill a dog real quick. I think the DVDs are realistic in that you see the good, bad and the ugly including his method of correcting a dog. The dogs in these DVDs are also much older than a young puppy. BCs turn on at different ages and some are softer than others. There are some distinct BC "cow" lines. Unless you have trained before and raised puppies working stock, I would not take your puppy near cows. A lot of BC trainers don't even think of starting them on anything until they are a year old. Sara Jo is a good reference. Saw recently that she had a BC but I know her from Larry Painter cow camps and she has had dogs from Larry's ACD lines for years. Hook up with her and see when she is going to have Larry for a clinic. He's a good person to learn working cattle from.

T


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## Ingrid Rosenquist (Mar 27, 2006)

Small world Terrasita - my foundation bitch is from Larry Painter's lines (actually goes back to SJ's Paint who I put a CD so he could get his ROM but I digress). I believe SJ will be having Larry there in October and December according to her website but double check to make sure that this information is not from last year.


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## Kailey Rhoades (Jun 13, 2013)

Thank you for all the replys. 
I've decided not to get it as my puppy does not seem to be showing any intincts. Maybe he is just too young but I want to see them before I buy the DVD. 
His dam was herding chickens at 2 months and at 6 months moved to our 2 year old steers, and "dog broke" them herself. No, we never tried anything with her-she'd ALWAYS be in there and would keep them in the corner of the pen. They couldn't move to eat or drink or anything. We actually tried for months to get her to stop and finally had to start tying her up. 
When she was about 1.5 years old, I started trying to train her to actually herd them but I really had no idea what I was doing. One day, the cows broke out of the pasture and I was on horseback trying to herd them up. They would just stand and look at me even if I smacked them, but I didn't have a rope or anything to whip them with, so it was only my hand. Riika was with me and she dove right in and sent them on their way. And we're talking big momma's with calves at their sides and not "dog broke." So....... I think it depends on the intincts and age of the dog.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

How old is the pup and who is the sire and his working history? Ingrid, I'm working a little 8 month old bitch that is Kuawarri top and bottom going back to Larry's Syd. She is very nice and representative of Larry's dogs. When I first worked her, I thought of SJ's dogs at cow camp and asked the owner to bring me a pedigree. Wallah!!!

T


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## Ingrid Rosenquist (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Ingrid, I'm working a little 8 month old bitch that is Kuawarri top and bottom going back to Larry's Syd. She is very nice and representative of Larry's dogs. When I first worked her, I thought of SJ's dogs at cow camp and asked the owner to bring me a pedigree. Wallah!!!
> 
> T


What is the ped on the puppy? Larry's lines produce nice performance dogs.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Dewey son bred to Quest daughter. Nice bitch with tons of eye--equal to a sticky BC & head/heel. She's very biddable also. 

T


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## Ingrid Rosenquist (Mar 27, 2006)

My bitch is a Dewey grand-daughter and she is a working fool. Here is her pedigree: http://www.acdpedigree.com/cgi-bin/geneal.cgi?op=tree&index=53569&gens=5&db=all.dbw

Owned her uncle as well and the dam side of the pedigree. Drivey but biddable dogs.


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