# L.A County Sheriff Dept. shot sh;tbag and K9 2003



## Andy Sepulveda (Jun 19, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akvtGcH_djs


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Andy Sepulveda said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akvtGcH_djs


Bunch of useless crosseyed retarded ****heads...dont give a shit that they shot the numbnuts with the flipflop but to shoot the K9 ? gheezus anyone ever heard of ****ing aiming at the suspect ?

Idiots like that make my stomach turn upside down......


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

This is an old video, and it comes up once or twice a year. It was a giant disaster. I am not sure what they were aiming with, or if they had ever heard of a hand held spot light, as if they did, maybe the flip flop would not have fooled them so completely.

Cluster****.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

cant watch the video cause im at work but weve had to people who have shot their own hand with a pistol during the range session of our academy and have graduated.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Several year old video. It's been analyzed, supported, trashed, discussed and debated. The main lesson learned; don't bring a flip-flop to a gunfight. 

DFrost


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

I can understand that sometimes adrenaline rush can cause officers to do somethings they wouldn't normally do btu for these guys i think this is extremely absurd. If you are going to shoot the guy, why send in the dog??????????? Looks like they even used shotguns and those pellets spread. This video is more disturbing than the one posted earlier on dogs used as food in asia.
That guy must be dumb to be threatning police unarmed. They say birds of a feather flock together this time around the birds are at logger heads.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

those comments pissed me off how people were standing up for the guy who didn't have a gun. how were the cops supposed to know if he did or not he threatened to shoot and said he had 13 rounds. It looks like the dog got in the way of the shots, at the same time he was still low to the ground which would bring to question whether or not they were aiming for center mass, if thats their department policy.


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## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

Tragic all the way around.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Please don't blame the cops, they have an impossible job. As David alluded too, it's just a dog, no biggie, You can't expect them to have communications or a plan. They were probably only there for a few hours. Oh yeah, it's video and you can't tell what really happened. Thread locked.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Al Curbow said:


> Please don't blame the cops, *they have an impossible job*. As David alluded too, it's just a dog, no biggie, You can't expect them to have communications or a plan. They were probably only there for a few hours. Oh yeah, it's video and you can't tell what really happened. Thread locked.



Yeah like making ****wit decisions like "lets send the dog right before we aim at whatever we feel like and pull the trigger" 

I reallllly feel bad for the poor ole LEO's at the scene :lol: Maybe they should be outfitted with the latest in LE firearms like the dreaded FLIPFLOP since it seemed to scare the begheezus out of them at the scene...

I can only hope that the ****wits never got their hands on another dog after that...


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

> I reallllly feel bad for the poor ole LEO's at the scene Maybe they should be outfitted with the latest in LE firearms like the dreaded FLIPFLOP since it seemed to scare the begheezus out of them at the scene...


In Holland, the police would have soothed him with a prostitute and some heroin before making the arrest. Safer for everyone involved. And the bigger picture would be addressed by later legalizing whatever it was he was accused of. That's not always possible in the U.S.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

I dont think it matters what the guy actually had in his possession. He made threats of shooting the dog and also claimed that he had a gun in his possession. Maybe all he had was a flip flop, but what if he really did have a gun. Then you have a bunch of dead officers on your hands. The guy got what was coming to him because of his stupid behavior.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I feel terrible for the dog. Other than that, DFrost is right. Don't bring a flip flop to a gunfight.

It's funny to hear opinions on this from people who's highest form of stress is probably having their boss tell them to do something they don't want to. Have their kids talk back to them which makes them ball their fists up and beat their pillows as angry hot tears come out. Realize that as you spout your opinion you have cops the the military to thank for your spouting. Your opinions in some cases are valuable and help some of the wild good guys keep from spinning out of control. So you aren't all bad. Just funny to me.

Thanks to all the cops and military out there doing a great job. Sorry for the dude at this scene that accidently dropped his leash and had to live with it.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Dave, so you think stupid civilians shouldn't have opinions?

If you believe the handler "accidentally" dropped the leash there's a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.....


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Al Curbow said:


> Dave, so you think stupid civilians shouldn't have opinions?
> 
> If you believe the handler "accidentally" dropped the leash there's a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.....


Yes Al. If they are stupid, as you stated, then their opinion should be kept quiet. Just like a stupid cops opinions. I only want to hear from the smart, beautiful people. I have a finite amount of space in my head. Don't want to throw out something good to make space for what I consider a stupid opinion.

It's America so we all get to have one. Unfortunately self realization doesn't set in with a lot of folks, ever, with which side of the line they are on.


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

That's a good question, Al.

One can grumble about _mistakes_ all he wants. However, the only intentional mayhem here was caused by the alleged offender. 

Jeez, even strikes described as "surgical" by the military could include up to a dozen or so collateral civilian deaths. :-k

One dog got smoked. Department property, at that. Which of the cops do you think was proud of himself that day? 

Yes, there is supposed to be higher standard of _conduct_, but since police are drawn from the same gene pool as the rest of us, we'll have to wait a little longer til a new race can be bred with calmer limbic systems. 

Now, I'm no expert on x-ray interpretation, but...

Strike that. *There is no but.* I don't know jack about x-rays, so I don't comment until I can demonstrate some sort of objective point of reference regarding why my opinion means anything about said subject.

So...by all means. Go ahead and debrief everyone.

I'll cover some of the more obvious ones to save you time:

They shouldn't have sent the dog
If the handler was gonna send the dog, he shoulda made it more clear
They shouldn't have fired while the dog was being sent
They shouldn't have shot the dog

*I think they probably covered that.*

Anything else?


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

After a quick inquiry, if police have a good faith belief that someone (under circumstances such as this) is actually armed with a gun (because he's saying so), they are under very little obligation to give verbal instructions since the courts recognize the inherent disadvantage *reaction *has vs. *action*.

Now, is there some other planet some of you live on where handguns aren't concealable in places like pockets??

A young man is dead (over a non-capital crime, as it were), some public servants have to deal with taking a life, and a major point of contention here is that an animal with a 10 year lifespan got in the way?

What the f*** wrong with some of you people??


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok, I bite.

There was more than enough time to actually come up with a plan.

For less than a hundred bucks, you can buy a 1,000,000 candlewatt or whatever handheld spotlight. I am sure with that many people, someone would have recognized a flip flop. 

Handler dropped the leash ? Ok, so you and I are there, and we see the dog clearly running towards the suspect. So at that point, you are saying that we should open fire ? Not only that we should open fire, but fire so badly that we hit the dog 10 or so times before he ever got a chance to do his part of the job.

So in a world where there is protocol for just about everything, there was no protocol for this ? Is there no chain of command ??

I would not have opened fire. Clearly the dog was being sent. Maybe I would have not opened fire because I was trained by the US Marine Corps, and we have some discipline. 

This is just to discuss with you what is wrong with me. What happened there is at this point, for the sake of discussion, just a hypothetical problem to work through. Not to bash, because I have seen this video posted a couple times a year for quite a while.


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ok, I bite.
> 
> There was more than enough time to actually come up with a plan.
> 
> For less than a hundred bucks, you can buy a 1,000,000 candlewatt or whatever handheld spotlight. I am sure with that many people, someone would have recognized a flip flop.


Which spectrum on the electromagnetic frequency does your brain percieve? Mine recognizes the amplitude which doesn't penetrate clothes.



> Handler dropped the leash ? Ok, so you and I are there, and we see the dog clearly running towards the suspect. So at that point, you are saying that we should open fire ? Not only that we should open fire, but fire so badly that we hit the dog 10 or so times before he ever got a chance to do his part of the job.


So they all clearly saw that? It looked like the trajectory was originating perpendicular to the camera.



> So in a world where there is protocol for just about everything, there was no protocol for this ? Is there no chain of command ??


Protocol for making sure everybody sees what they're supposed to see? If only they were so lucky.

Protocol for announcing a send? Probably. That much seemed to fail hard.

Protocol for acting on a quick withdrawal of a hand from a pocket when the guy already said he had a gun? Yeah, the protocol is probably to waste him without a commanders permission.



> I would not have opened fire. Clearly the dog was being sent. Maybe I would have not opened fire because I was trained by the US Marine Corps, and we have some discipline.


That's one way to look at it. The other way is that marines do make mistakes, but when they get home they get a pat on the back because everyone understands that "war is hell" and "shit happens" Semper fi, hoorah, etc etc.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok, never mind.


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

I hope that's not a dismissal of me. You're giving this the thought it deserves from a perspective of constructiveness. The same can't be said for Al or Alice.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

It's been a number of years since I reviewed this incident... but if memory serves me, the dog was being used as a layered less lethal approach combined with a bean bag shotgun.... the bullets were from sympathetic fire.


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

It's hard to think of a worse thing to quickly implement if not specifically trained for. 

Something which _sounds_ like live-fire being mixed _with_ live-fire?


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Bunch of useless crosseyed retarded ****heads...
> Idiots like that make my stomach turn upside down......


Re-calibrate, Alice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTMqef12r9A :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I hope that's not a dismissal of me. You're giving this the thought it deserves from a perspective of constructiveness. 


Quote: That's one way to look at it. The other way is that marines do make mistakes, but when they get home they get a pat on the back because everyone understands that "war is hell" and "shit happens" Semper fi, hoorah, etc etc.

Kid was brought up on murder charges for shooting a bad guy that refused to show his hands. Shortly before that, he was wounded slightly, and a couple of his squad members died because the guy was hiding a grenade. Is that the pat on the back you were talking about ?

We make mistakes and we die. The bad guys we go against have permission to kill us, and are trained to do so. So it was a dismissal. But by dismissing bad tactics and saying that oh now they have to go home having killed a guy, Boo hoo for them, was also sort of irritating to me. 

He says he has a gun, ok. I am not going to ever think like a cop thinks, as I was trained better, and completely differently as far as I can tell.

You have one guy. ONE. So lets say there are ten of you. Is there something wrong with waiting ? Is there something wrong with lighting the area so heavily that he cannot see, but you can ? What happens when you cut the power, and only you can see ??

Is there no recon of the area ? What happens if you just let the guy go and pick him up later ? You can ALWAYS say that it would go bad, and he would kill someone, but is that true ? Has anyone tried it ? Ever ?

I have no problem with shooting a guy who refuses to comply and is threatening with a gun. I think that for the most part, most of the US is good with that, as long as you can have something like this video proving that you gave him ample opportunity to give up. I think it is the courts that **** this up.

How many hits with a bean bag before anyone calls it quits ? I guess that would be non lethal, although again, like I just said, you are asked to comply and refuse and threaten, then I am good with that person getting shot.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Brian Batchelder said:


> After a quick inquiry, if police have a good faith belief that someone (under circumstances such as this) is actually armed with a gun (because he's saying so), they are under very little obligation to give verbal instructions since the courts recognize the inherent disadvantage *reaction *has vs. *action*.
> 
> Now, is there some other planet some of you live on where handguns aren't concealable in places like pockets??
> 
> ...


Brian,
As much as i love dogs and seem to have less relationship problems with them i never view them as more valuable than a human being. I also respect police officers, along with firefighters i consider their jobs some of the most important. Having said that, these guys should have let the dog do its job, that guy was threatning to shoot and i even thought he had a gun but he wasn't an immediate danger to the cops when the dog was on him. If anything at all he would have shot the dog first,they even had TWO dogs on scene. His body language showed he was about to flee, he threw the weapon away. They started shooting before the dog got to him. Please i and many 'civilians' respect police officers, people like Jim and the rest but to say these guys didn't do wrong and people should not be annoyed at the way they handled the situation is just not right. They had a bullet proof shield for God's sake. There have been worse standoffs that\n this, the one on the BANK OF AMERICA the cops didn't fire first. This is very bad police work IMO. The dog is dead but a 'dumb' but still human person lost his life also. Maybe it can be a good instructional video.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Brian thanks for the video on the dutch police, again it proves that a ****tard knows no race creed or color when it comes to being totaly and utterly incompotent....the vid only proves that. Funny how you feel the need to defend your US LEO as where I simply call it what it is...stupid and ignorant, fact that they are in the states ? makes sweet **** all difference to me, could have been anywhere in the world and it would still have pissed me of. 

as for feeling for the guy that got shot ? excuse YOU Brian ? why the hell should I feel sorry for that piece of shit ? He is dead because he was being a class A prick with a shitload of guns pointed at him and a dog ready to go at him and still he felt the need to keep up the show...he should have used his brain and surrendered instead of taking his sweet ****ing time sitting there waving his flipflop being stupid....I feel no sympathy for him at all. If you make your bed you should be prepared to sleep in it...flipflopboy apparantly felt sleepy so thats that....

simple rule of life Brian: act a certain way and expect to get treated accordingly....


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> > Kid was brought up on murder charges for shooting a bad guy that refused to show his hands. Shortly before that, he was wounded slightly, and a couple of his squad members died because the guy was hiding a grenade. Is that the pat on the back you were talking about ?
> 
> 
> You phrased all that strangely. I don't understand the situation.
> ...


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Brian Batchelder said:


> Alice, I would personally euthanize 100 police dogs if I could bring this young man back to life. Sorry. He was troubled, reckless, impulsive, previously violent, and probably other things. But there was no evidence he was a murderer. It's important you know the cultural differences between sovereign citizens and subjects. It may help you understand my point of view. His victim deserved justice and he deserved fair judgement. It's not my problem that you, (and maybe others here) may have had a father who liked the sauce too much, a mother who was kind of crazy, and a dog who was your only emotional stability between the ages of 3 and 11. Not my problem. Not anyone's.



Well you go right ahead and feel sorry foor poor ole flipflopboy, no one is stopping you, certainly not me 

He would have gotten fair judgement if he had given it a chance but nope he wanted to sit there and escalate the whole situation when it allcould have pretty much been avoided, throw in a couple of triggerhappy officers and one idiot doghandler and viola! you have yourself a cluster****up...

You would have killed 100 dogs to bring back flipflopboy :lol: well that kinda says it all huh...you vallue life unless its just a lowely dog, then go right ahead and shoot the bastard, its just a dog right, its life isnt worth shit and has absolutly no value....now you sit there and start bringing parents and things into it in order to make some kind of warped point....well point taken dear...go right ahead and make some more stupid comments about us people who think that ALL LIFE is of value....yes Brian even a dogs life!

Now carry on insulting as you will Brian, no skin of my back, it just shows you for what you are.

:-({|=


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

clusterf***s and mistakes are often how we learn

both a human and canine life was lost and both should be walking around today

- not giving a sh*t about "flipflopboy", or considering him a stupid ni***r that caused the incident and deserved be gunned own is arrogant and stoopid

- maybe the K9 was a "shitter" (common WDF term) and broke off, and should never have been re-certified and maybe the K9 handler was equally as incompetent; who could know fm this clip ?

- and maybe the same applies to whoever put the rounds in the dog, whether or not he was an ex-marine ... or not

- the fact leos are under pressure 24/7 is a FACT they are trained to deal with - they either learn to deal with it or should leave the job.....it's a VERY tuff job and not all can handle it but very few quit ... but it's NEVER an excuse to justify a f*** up

NONE of the "maybes" and "what ifs" matters - just useless ranting to comment on by people who weren't there ....

*** if you WERE there, speak up and set the record straight from your perspective 

only thing important to me was whether a lesson was learned so it won't be repeated


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

Alice, you'll have to refresh my memory on everything you said I said.

Dogs are lovely and useful, but they aren't people. A littler of puppies doesn't equal a person. A whole kennel of puppies and dogs doesn't equal one "retard" criminal in a wheelchair in a jail cell in some third-world country whose name nobody can pronounce. That's only meant to illustrate the value of human life and the point of a credible criminal justice system, not the worthlessness of dogs. 

But you're emotional right now, so I don't expect you to be objective and understand the difference. I'm sure nobody in your family has ever had problems.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Brian Batchelder said:


> Alice, you'll have to refresh my memory on everything you said I said.
> 
> Dogs are lovely and useful, but they aren't people. A littler of puppies doesn't equal a person. A whole kennel of puppies and dogs doesn't equal one "retard" criminal in a wheelchair in a jail cell in some third-world country whose name nobody can pronounce. That's only meant to illustrate the value of human life and the point of a credible criminal justice system, not the worthlessness of dogs.
> 
> _*But you're emotional right now, so I don't expect you to be objective and understand the difference. I'm sure nobody in your family has ever had problems.*_



Owwww sweetheart im not emotional :lol: :lol: :lol: I just have a point of view that doesnt meet your approval and I bet its irritating the everloving shit out of you right now since you have to grab for excuses like emotional and family problems....cant wait for you to bring PMS in to this topic! Its ok tho Brian...im sure you simply dont know any better so I will excuse you for your ignorance this time


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am not sure what they were aiming with


Some had handguns, mostly Beretta 9mm's, and some had M-16's/M-4's.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> I can understand that sometimes adrenaline rush can cause officers to do somethings they wouldn't normally do btu for these guys i think this is extremely absurd. If you are going to shoot the guy, why send in the dog???????????


The handler sent the dog, the suspect raised the flipflop (they thought it was a gun) and they fired.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Dave Colborn said:


> Sorry for the dude at this scene that accidently dropped his leash and had to live with it.


Unless you have some new information, I don't think "the dude accidentally dropped his leash."


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Brian Batchelder said:


> One can grumble about _mistakes_ all he wants. However, the only intentional mayhem here was caused by the alleged offender.


It's far worse than it looks on the video Brian. In this case the details found in WIKIPEDIA are fairly accurate.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There was more than enough time to actually come up with a plan.


There was a plan. The Lt. over rode it. 



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> For less than a hundred bucks, you can buy a 1,000,000 candlewatt or whatever handheld spotlight. I am sure with that many people, someone would have recognized a flip flop.


The flip flop was kept under his shirt until an instant before the shooting started. No light could have ID'd it. Once he brought it out from under his shirt there was not nearly enough time to identify it as "not a gun." 



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So in a world where there is protocol for just about everything, there was no protocol for this ? Is there no chain of command ??


There is a Chain of Command. A supervisor on the scene ordered the K−9 handler to deploy his dog. He refused because it did not meet the Dept guidelines for use of a K−9. The supervisor on−scene phoned his supervisor, a Lt. at a party at another location who had been drinking. The Lt. ordered the K−9 handler to deploy his dog. He refused again. Another K−9 handler came to the scene who obeyed the Lt's order. 



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I would not have opened fire. Clearly the dog was being sent. Maybe I would have not opened fire because I was trained by the US Marine Corps, and we have some discipline.


The officers with the automatic weapons had been told to leave. They had not been to training with the K−9's and had not learned to "aim high" to avoid hitting the dog if it came to a shooting situation. These are patrol officers, not a SWAT team and they don't receive nearly as much training with rifles as does a Marine rifleman. Even after the suspect is down, you can see shots striking a column about 5-6' from the suspect.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> Some had handguns, mostly Beretta 9mm's, and some had M-16's/M-4's.


chuckle, chuckle


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

"The flip flop was kept under his shirt until an instant before the shooting started. No light could have ID'd it. Once he brought it out from under his shirt there was not nearly enough time to identify it as "not a gun."

Lou, I agree that sometimes, you can type a person to insanity. However, now you've used logic, combined with a "been there" type of mentality. I don't know if the naysayers are quite ready for that. Those that haven't been in that type of situation, will never understand. I don't care how much "COPS" or "Life on the Beat" they watch. The very idea that trained police officer have human emotions and are capable of mistakes, why, I never..............

DFrost


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## Rick Cadez Jr. (Dec 1, 2009)

Lou & David, Well said.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

This was ****ing stupid all around. I saw the video earlier today and wanted sooo bad to be on the cop's side on this one. I just can't.

Why send the dog? Did anyone watch the video? The guy DID NOT raise the "flip flop" at the cops. He threw it to the ground. Isn't that the best result you could have gotten from sending the dog? That the "bad guy" disarms himself?

Being a cop is tough. They have to make split second decisions. But this isn't a surprise to them. No one joins LAPD thinking they never have to make split second life and death decisions. We give cops a lot of trust. They have the legal right to take away people's freedom. Being well trained and clear headed is a reasonable expectation and if you think firing you "M-4" at a guy* throwing a flip flop to the ground* is rational then find a different line of work.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Ben Colbert said:


> This was ****ing stupid all around. I saw the video earlier today and wanted sooo bad to be on the cop's side on this one. I just can't.
> 
> Why send the dog? Did anyone watch the video? The guy DID NOT raise the "flip flop" at the cops. He threw it to the ground. Isn't that the best result you could have gotten from sending the dog? That the "bad guy" disarms himself?
> 
> Being a cop is tough. They have to make split second decisions. But this isn't a surprise to them. No one joins LAPD thinking they never have to make split second life and death decisions. We give cops a lot of trust. They have the legal right to take away people's freedom. Being well trained and clear headed is a reasonable expectation and if you think firing you "M-4" at a guy* throwing a flip flop to the ground* is rational then find a different line of work.


Nice one Ben, if it would've been you there when he raised his flipflop you'd be standing in a puddle of urine with a big snot bubble coming out your nose.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

I didn't realize this was going to devolve in to a dick measuring contest.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Ben Colbert said:


> I didn't realize this was going to devolve in to a dick measuring contest.


Then don't pull it out.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Dick measuring contest ?? Thats what chicks always say, not guys. You are allowed to wear a dress in the coast guard right ??


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Thats my first time ever seeing that video. Its messed up all around.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> Unless you have some new information, I don't think "the dude accidentally dropped his leash."


but do you know for sure?


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You are allowed to wear a dress in the coast guard right ??


Depends on the occasion. Mostly we wear pants suits but of the Captain comes by we all keep our dresses in the lockers downstairs.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Earlier I wrote,


> Unless you have some new information, I don't think "the dude accidentally dropped his leash."





Dave Colborn said:


> but do you know for sure?


An old friend (they're all old these days – lol) of mine was the attorney on the wrongful death case. We've had many discussions about it and he does a LE presentation on the case. He's always referred to the handler as "sending his dog" and never mentioned that the handler dropped his leash. I'd call that pretty sure, beyond a reasonable doubt. If he had dropped the leash it would certainly have come up during depo or trial. That fact would have mitigated the County's liability and probably reduced the size of the award.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> An old friend (they're all old these days – lol) of mine was the attorney on the wrongful death case. We've had many discussions about it and he does a LE presentation on the case. He's always referred to the handler as "sending his dog" and never mentioned that the handler dropped his leash. I'd call that pretty sure, beyond a reasonable doubt. If he had dropped the leash it would certainly have come up during depo or trial. That fact would have mitigated the County's liability and probably reduced the size of the award.



Gotcha. So you weren't there either. 

Hope you are doing well these days Lou. I was really hoping you were on scene or involved in the investigation and could shed some first hand light. Take care.


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

I won the dick thing years ago.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Still got the trophy ??


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

I get a new trophy every couple months. The old ones are too expensive to re-tread.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

so out of curiosity, what was the official outcome on this, were the police found to be braking any protocols or anything. 

poor dog, poor dog, i think dogs should be banned from this sort of risk, thats why we got guns. 

n why did the police take so long to walk over and assess the situation, guy didn't look like he was getting up. they do it quicker in the movies.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> n why did the police take so long to walk over and assess the situation, guy didn't look like he was getting up. they do it quicker in the movies.


While 2011 is off to a record start, I haven't read of too many police officers actually dying in the movies lately. 

DFrost


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Dave Colborn said:


> Gotcha. So you weren't there either.


No, I wasn't there. My information comes from the lawyer who handled the wrongful death lawsuit for the County. He spoke to every party involved at length, was present for all the depositions, and the trial. He probably knows more about the incident than people who were there. They only know what they saw, heard and did. He knows what they ALL saw, heard and did.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Brian Batchelder said:


> Jeff Oehlsen said:
> 
> 
> > You phrased all that strangely. I don't understand the situation.
> ...


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

I have a joke.

A guy was sitting at a baseball game, when heard: "Bob! Over here!"

He looked down his row, looked around behind him, but saw and heard nothing. He resumed watching the game.

A second time, he hears: "Bob! I know you can hear me! I'm over here! Hey!"

He gets up, looks down into the deck below him, and deck above him looking for anyone even remotely famliar. He squints real hard and scans the entire ball park. Nothing.

A few minutes later he hears: "Yoo-hoo! Bobby! Yo!"

He stands up and screams: "FOR GOD'S SAKE MY NAME ISN'T BOB!"


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what is the joke? Is the Joke that your name is not really Brian Batchelder?


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

The joke is that Oldu...whatever, apparently thought I was responding to him. Ever.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> The guys in this video IMO represent less than 5% of the k9 cops out there.


One of those cops obeyed the highest standards that exist in LE. He refused to deploy his K−9 because he knew that the situation did not fit the department's guidelines, EVEN WHEN ORDERED TO DO SO BY A RANKING OFFICER, a Lt. Even though I hate what he's now doing, I recognize that he displayed bravery and courage when others around him were not. 

They could have sent out for burgers and waited the crook out, but they were ordered into action. 



Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> I think many cops would agree that there was no excuse for the way things turned out. For God sake rookie or not, their lives were not in immediate danger.


The crook was "armed" with a flip flop, and you're right, their lives were not in immediate danger. But we can't judge them based on what we know now. As far as they knew he had a gun and they appropriately believed that their lives were in danger. 



Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> The guy would have shot the dog before shooting at any of them.


Since it's only a few degrees difference in elevation of the gun's barrel between shooting the dog and shooting an officer, it was appropriate of them to feel that their lives were in danger even if he'd been shooting at the dog. 



Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> Plus they had a bullet proof shield, come on]


There's no such thing as a "bullet *proof *shield." They are bullet *resistant *shields. In any case there was only one of them and notice that it only covered the officer's body, not his legs. Fatal wounds don't have to be delivered to the body. Crippling injuries can be sustained to the legs. It only gives partial protection and then, only to the officer who's holding it and ones immediately behind him.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Lou Castle said:


> One of those cops obeyed the highest standards that exist in LE. He refused to deploy his K−9 because he knew that the situation did not fit the department's guidelines, EVEN WHEN ORDERED TO DO SO BY A RANKING OFFICER, a Lt. Even though I hate what he's now doing, I recognize that he displayed bravery and courage when others around him were not.
> 
> They could have sent out for burgers and waited the crook out, but they were ordered into action.
> 
> ...



Well your'e the expert. I assumed they were giving those announcements from a position of cover/concealment, then i guess i'm wrong again. I have to stop here cos i don't want you or anyone to think i just felt like bashing the cops or something.
Thanks for your explanation.:-D


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Brian Batchelder said:


> The joke is that Oldu...whatever, apparently thought I was responding to him. Ever.


Brian,
My apologies..


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## Brian Batchelder (Mar 11, 2011)

> What happens if you just let the guy go and pick him up later ? You can ALWAYS say that it would go bad, and he would kill someone, but is that true ? Has anyone tried it ? Ever ?


Been thinking more about this. The answer is yes. Someone has tried that before. 

http://www.odmp.org/officer/20459-constable-robert-murphy


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The guy told Constable dumbass that he would appear. You cannot fix stupid, not in 1825, or now. : ) All he had to do was wait for him to show up the next day........... or....... it is 1825, so you shoot the ****er in the gut and plant a gun on him. Wait, maybe that wouldn't work, as the guy got a pardon, so he must have been connected.


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