# N.A.R.A result's?



## jay kutilek

does anyone know the result's of the N.A.R.A championship?


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## Debbie Skinner

jay kutilek said:


> does anyone know the result's of the N.A.R.A championship?


I checked the NARA board but there's nothing posted yet. The trial was Friday and Saturday and the decoy selection was yesterday. This is from memory and I wasn't there the entire time any of the days.

FRIIIs

Larry Hanson - from SoCal with Chunga (BBM-F)

2nd place ?? I believe Christine Johnston from the East Coast with her Dutchie male

3rd Place - Tim Welch - Extreme Ring Dogs - Avatar des Ombres Valeureux (BEAUC-M)

FRIIs

??? 1st-3rd San Francisco Club - not sure. I know Felix Sunga was in the top 3 with his BBM-M

FRIs

1st ??

2nd Kadi Thingvail - SoCal - Chaos (BBM-M)

3rd Place - Dean Porterfield (17 year old)- Extreme Ring Dogs - Blitz des Ombres Valeureux (BBM-M)

There were no Brevets at the Championship.


8 Decoys tried out either to certify or move up a level on Sunday, but I couldn't stay late to hear the results.


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## Geoff Empey

jay kutilek said:


> does anyone know the result's of the N.A.R.A championship?


Some great pictures from Facebook, Starts on page 3 of the album some nice shots. Looks like a wonderful event. 

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/album.php?page=3&aid=2110996&id=15108090


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## Kadi Thingvall

Judge: Camille Tisserand 
Decoys: Manuel Montero and Waleed Maalouf 

2009 NARA Cup Scores 
Place Breed Sex Name of Dog Handler Team Score 

FRI 
1 BBM/M Zipady du Albree Alan Miller BARC 180.7 
2 BBM/M Havok du Dantero Kadi Thingvall SCABR 171.4 
3 BBM/M Blitz des Ombres Valeureux Dean Porterfield ERD 169.7 
4 BBM/M Beoaooh A Living Fire Scout Tiffany Dennis Ind 162.6 
5 BBM/M Giacomo des Barriques Sarah Prelle Ind 158.7 
6 DS/F Vrijheid's Brigita Kikki Sonja K Nordstrom UPS 157.1 
7 GSD/M Buck vom Grosswardein Shelley Nelson Ind 140.6 
8 BBM/M Dovrefjelds Finnister Chris Libs Ind 138.4 
9 BBM/M Hairston's Capone Outkast Patricia Hairston Ind 125.8 
10 BBM/F Soaring China du Chambliss DeVell Chambliss GTRS 91.1 

Dog in White: "Momo" des Contes d'Hoffmann/Stephanie O'Brien 
Deputy Judge: Leri Hanson 

FRII 
1 DS/M Sniper vom Kelterhoff Jason Davis Renn Ring 279.6 
2 BBM/M A'River de Nelly des Beux Peupliers Felix Sunga BARC 267.3 
3 BBM/M L'Jersey Loups du Soleil John Allen BARC 255.6 
4 BBM/M Achille du Domaine du Cameleon Justin Gannon Phnix Rising 250.4 

Dog in White: Dantero's Mac de Dubois/Kadi Thingvall 
Deputy Judge: Adrian Centeno 

FRIII 
1 BBM/F Changa des Barriques of KO Leri Hanson SCABR 376.2 
2 DS/M Titan des Crocs de L'Olympe Christine Johnson Renn Ring 369.175 
3 BEAUC/M Avatar des Ombres Valeureux Tim Welch ERD 342.375 
4 BBM/M Comte des Contes d'Hoffmann Larry Shannon Ind 318.175 
5 BBM/F Irie Misty Morning (Daisy) Richard Bonilla Apache 314.325 
6 BBM/M Jake des Barriques Thuan Ha WCK9PS 267.15 

Dog in White: Dantero's Mac de Dubois/Kadi Thingvall 
Sniper vom Kelterhoff/Jason Davis 
Deputy Judge: Stephanie O'Brien 


2009 NARA Championships Final Standings 
Pre-Champ Trials Pre-Ch Ave Ch Score Final Total Final Ave 

FR3 Statistics 
Titan des Crocs de L’Olympe 392.7 376.2 364.822 377.907 369.175 1872.072 374.414 
Changa des Barriques of KO 369.285 366.85 354.75 363.628 376.2 1843.285 368.657 
Avatar des Ombres Valeureux 351.75 323.85 359.7 345.100 342.375 1720.05 344.010 

FR2 Statistics 
Sniper vom Kelterhoff 300 295.8 294.105 296.635 279.6 1449.105 289.821 
A’River de Nelly des Beaux Peupliers 272.265 249.6 207.8 243.222 267.3 1264.265 252.853 

FR1 Statistics 
Zipady du Albree 184.59 181.9 160.4 175.630 180.7 888.29 177.658 
Beoaodh A Living Fire Scout 174.7 171.4 170.31 172.137 162.6 841.61 168.322 
Havok du Dantero 165.3 163.8 147.2 158.767 171.4 819.1 163.82 

We had 5 decoys try out in the regular Decoy Selection, unfortunately none of them passed, but a number of them were close. 

4 Decoys competed in the Decoy Super Selection. The final scores were close, but the results were 

Josh McCleary - NARA Decoy of the Year 
Manuel Montero 
Waleed Maalouf 
Matt Nieuwkoop 

All of these decoys were also awarded level 3 status by the judge.


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## Geoff Empey

Kadi Thingvall said:


> We had 5 decoys try out in the regular Decoy Selection, unfortunately none of them passed, but a number of them were close.


Man that Lvl 1 selection is tough. Gives a whole new meaning to "Giving Blood" 

Congratulations on what looks like a very successful event! \\/


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## virginia reed

christines' dutchie was fabulous and so was that teeny, tiny female Mal - pocket Mal


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## Francis Metcalf

Katie,

Where did you get those results? I noticed Zips name was changed from Zip du Metcalf to Zip du Albree. I'm sure its a typo!

Francis


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## Francis Metcalf

Oops I meant Kadi..


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## Kadi Thingvall

The results are the "unofficial official" results from the trial. IE I was the trial secretary, they are the results in my documentation, but since I haven't sent them to Jeffyn (NARA Secretary) to make them official they are still unofficial. Clear as mud? LOL Zipady du Albree is the name on the scorebook.


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## Francis Metcalf

Ok thanks.


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## Debbie Skinner

To add to the confusion there was no catalog or program with the competitors and dogs listed nor were the teams announced when they hit the field to compete. I would of loved a program to jot notes and scores next to the names of dogs and handlers.


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## Tamara McIntosh

Debbie Skinner said:


> To add to the confusion there was no catalog or program with the competitors and dogs listed nor were the teams announced when they hit the field to compete. I would of loved a program to jot notes and scores next to the names of dogs and handlers.


Umm.. I can't recall ANY ring trial I have ever been to where there was a PRINTED catalog available. Personally I think it would be cost prohibitive and redundant as the trial results get posted to a public access website anyways. And is ring really that big these days that you can't simply lean over to the person beside you and ask who the current person on the field is?

Tamara McIntosh


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## Konnie Hein

I'm super proud of my teammates Christine Johnson and Jason Davis. Kudos to them and all the competitors for all their hard work!


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## Craig Wood

Debbie Skinner said:


> To add to the confusion there was no catalog or program with the competitors and dogs listed nor were the teams announced when they hit the field to compete. I would of loved a program to jot notes and scores next to the names of dogs and handlers.


 
Debbie 
I am glad you mentioned the program. ARF is in the process of implementing a program that mimics the ones used in France. Your suggestion validates the efforts by all involved in the project. 
The program will have the handler and dogs bios as well as room to record trial scores and notes. They will also have a cover sheet with the hosting clubs information. 
With a nominal charge of a dollar or so for spectators we should be able give the handlers a free copy and still break even. The program will allow handlers and attendees a nice little memento of the trial.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Debbie there were like 4 levels three dogs, how hard is it to remember, or do you have early onset Alzheimers like me ??

The championship is really only about the threes.


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## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Debbie there were like 4 levels three dogs, how hard is it to remember, or do you have early onset Alzheimers like me ??
> 
> The championship is really only about the threes.


No, there were 6 level three dogs

I would agree that I knew all the dogs and handlers.

A program would be a nice touch but not practical in this event.

The hosting club did an outstanding jog with everything!


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## Kyle Sprag

to add:

A HUGE congrats for the hard working decoys Josh, Manuel, and Walleed for earning their Level III certification under a Tough French Judge! Wayy to go NARA!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Billy DiSciullo

Congratulations to all that competed this weekend at the NARA Championships!! 
Props to Breonna Davis, she did an AWESOME job training the new Rlll Champ!


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## Jason Davis

Don't forget about Matt getting his level 3 as well


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## Kyle Sprag

Oops, Yes Matt Too!


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## Debbie Skinner

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Umm.. I can't recall ANY ring trial I have ever been to where there was a PRINTED catalog available. Personally I think it would be cost prohibitive and redundant as the trial results get posted to a public access website anyways. And is ring really that big these days that you can't simply lean over to the person beside you and ask who the current person on the field is?
> 
> Tamara McIntosh


The Extreme Dog Trial in May...all Championships in France...Breed Specialty trials in France..can't remember if there were programs at the Selectifs that I attended. For the Championships, it would of been nice. Cost? You go on your computer and use Word or Publisher and print some off...probably 20-30 pamphlets would do with 2 sheets of paper each. There were people there that had never seen a ring trial and also many that didn't know the complete name of the person and dog. "Whose that?" "Oh, that's Sam with Brownie".


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## Debbie Skinner

Craig Wood said:


> Debbie
> I am glad you mentioned the program. ARF is in the process of implementing a program that mimics the ones used in France. Your suggestion validates the efforts by all involved in the project.
> The program will have the handler and dogs bios as well as room to record trial scores and notes. They will also have a cover sheet with the hosting clubs information.
> With a nominal charge of a dollar or so for spectators we should be able give the handlers a free copy and still break even. The program will allow handlers and attendees a nice little memento of the trial.


The program for the May 09 trial of Extreme Ring Dogs had the exercises and points possible along with the Sponsors and photos of the club and some information on the members. Bios are a great idea. Possible to get advertisers as well. We had a spot beside each dog where you could put in the score. Yes a [FONT=&quot]Souvenir[/FONT]! I made the one for the May trial on Publisher and it didn't take much effort.


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## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Debbie there were like 4 levels three dogs, how hard is it to remember, or do you have early onset Alzheimers like me ??
> 
> The championship is really only about the threes.


4! LOL Now you make it sound like even a smaller entry at the FRIIIs...no there were 6!  There were 10 FRI and 4 FRIIs. I like to see the name of the dog (complete name w/kennel name). I guess I'm always looking at the dogs to see if there are any great dogs out there..whether it has a great score or high title or not. Sally trialing "fifi" doesn't give me much information. :???:


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## Debbie Skinner

Mr. Tisserand (SCC judge from France) I thought was very consistent and fair throughout in his judging of the trial. Judging all day Friday and Saturday and then the Decoy Selection all day Sunday. Quite the well done job! I commend him.

It was a pleasure for Ron and I to meet with him and talk about French Ring and the trends in France. It would of been easier for me if he spoke English, but Ron speaks French so we managed.


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## Geoff Empey

Debbie Skinner said:


> The program for the May 09 trial of Extreme Ring Dogs had the exercises and points possible along with the Sponsors and photos of the club and some information on the members. Bios are a great idea. Possible to get advertisers as well. We had a spot beside each dog where you could put in the score. Yes a [FONT=&quot]Souvenir[/FONT]! I made the one for the May trial on Publisher and it didn't take much effort.


I agree that doing up something in print would be nice. Especially when you have pre-registration.

We had tried to do it for our own club trial in Montreal as well as have a ring announcer. But the way it went with volunteers already stretched thin we couldn't pull it off. Plus the fact our Ring Announcer needed to be fluently bilingual added to the logistics that made it harder to do. I did bring 1/2 my bands P.A.system 2000 watts so we could make announcements and we rocked out to everyones iPod during our seminar though! 

Stuff like that is great if you can pull it off. But really the dogs don't really care, these things are superfluous to them. Really it is all about the dogs in the first place. With the amount of club members that said they would volunteer that actually stepped up at our trial in Montreal we were more worried about the trial being on time with food and drinks being cooked/served to everyone on site, somethings had to fall by the wayside. Our trial was still a success no matter. 

From what I see it looks like our friends at NARA pulled off a wonderfully run Championship Trial. I tip my hat off to them and wish I could've been there.


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## virginia reed

i was very lucky. i hooked up with a lady who didn't know a lot more than i do and she was with someone who knew a lot - (except the dogs' bio). He knew the theory of the exercises and something about the teams. It would have been fun to know at least where the competitors were from.

A very comfortable venue - good stuff.


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## Debbie Skinner

virginia reed said:


> i was very lucky. i hooked up with a lady who didn't know a lot more than i do and she was with someone who knew a lot - (except the dogs' bio). He knew the theory of the exercises and something about the teams. It would have been fun to know at least where the competitors were from.
> 
> A very comfortable venue - good stuff.


It was a good time and the quality of dogs was good. All 6 FRIIIs put on good performances. Decoy selection is always fun to watch with nothing but bitework out on the field.


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## Kadi Thingvall

Geoff Empey said:


> I agree that doing up something in print would be nice. Especially when you have pre-registration.


This was actually why we didn't have a program. We had discussed putting one together, blended with an FR overview I did a long time ago, but we had a number of people who didn't enter until after open field had already begun, I believe we actually got a couple of entries at the draw Thurs night. Taking entries that late isn't ideal for things like a program, but it was handy for some of the competitors so ...

We did have a PA system and dog/handler teams were announced, I think it was the FRII's and FRIII's only though, the system wasn't working 100% reliably.

I like the idea of a program, if the host club can pull it off. I plan to suggest it to next years host club, but I will also be suggesting they close entries at least 1 week before the trial, and no late entries be accepted.


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## Debbie Skinner

Kadi Thingvall said:


> This was actually why we didn't have a program. We had discussed putting one together, blended with an FR overview I did a long time ago, but we had a number of people who didn't enter until after open field had already begun, I believe we actually got a couple of entries at the draw Thurs night. Taking entries that late isn't ideal for things like a program, but it was handy for some of the competitors so ...
> 
> We did have a PA system and dog/handler teams were announced, I think it was the FRII's and FRIII's only though, the system wasn't working 100% reliably.
> 
> I like the idea of a program, if the host club can pull it off. I plan to suggest it to next years host club, but I will also be suggesting they close entries at least 1 week before the trial, and no late entries be accepted.


Yes, extremely difficult with last minute entries..only thing I could think of would be to leave a few blank spaces below the pre-entries at each level and then the spectators would fill in the late entries. Then someone would need to put the late entry info on a board or post a sheet ring side to facilitate this. It's not easy with late entries..would have to have someone in charge of the programs, list and I know many times the host club is "strapped" with members multi-tasking all day. Looked like Stephanie O'Brien probably walked 100 miles during the trial criss-crossing the field!

I know I keep my programs even from the 1990s of the French Championship trials I attended and the Beauceron nationals with my notes next to the dogs/handlers.


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## Geoff Empey

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I like the idea of a program, if the host club can pull it off. I plan to suggest it to next years host club, but I will also be suggesting they close entries at least 1 week before the trial, and no late entries be accepted.


I think you are on the right track for sure. The only thing I would strongly disagree with, is possibly not accepting late entries. That is a sure fire way of excluding someone somewhere, the door should be open right up to the AM of said level competition. Maybe have a late entry fee for encouraging people to enter earlier but to shut the door on any possible competitors I think would be a mistake, IMO of course. 

Any program that I've seen always has a few blank pages for 'notes' spectators can put whatever they want there. Late entrants, or spectators children maybe even could get autographs of the judge, decoys and handlers.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

It is not a regular club trial, so late entries, like the morning of, should not be allowed. It is supposed to be a a championship, the big cheese, not, Oh by the way......


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## David Ruby

Geoff Empey said:


> Any program that I've seen always has a few blank pages for 'notes' spectators can put whatever they want there. Late entrants, or spectators children maybe even could get autographs of the judge, decoys and handlers.


Yeah, spectators _children._ 8-[

As an aside, it would be kind of cool to see kids get excited about certain agitators, handlers, or their dogs (get a dog's paw print on a program) or whomever, enough to want their autographs like how a lot of people get excited about certain sports players' autographs.

-Cheers


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## Geoff Empey

David Ruby said:


> Yeah, spectators _children._ 8-[
> 
> As an aside, it would be kind of cool to see kids get excited about certain agitators, handlers, or their dogs (get a dog's paw print on a program) or whomever, enough to want their autographs like how a lot of people get excited about certain sports players' autographs.
> 
> -Cheers


LOL! Well my 2 boys who are aged 6 and 8 years old. They both go out on the field during training days and have a riot. The oldest boy will even run laps with the decoys and do pushups with them! He has a keen interest in all of it. He loves loading the gun, playing with the club pups and practicing his moves with the baton. Both of them being a soccer and lacrosse players who practice Jui Jitsu it bodes well for both of them. I hope to keep that interest up as that is what makes all those fantastic French decoys is actually having them start young. 

Hey and don't discount those decoys they are the rock stars of ringsport! Paw prints LOL that would be fun!


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## Tamara McIntosh

David Ruby said:


> Yeah, spectators _children._ 8-[
> 
> As an aside, it would be kind of cool to see kids get excited about certain agitators, handlers, or their dogs (get a dog's paw print on a program) or whomever, enough to want their autographs like how a lot of people get excited about certain sports players' autographs.
> 
> -Cheers


Spectators children NUTHIN! I asked Tom to sign the accessories he gave me that he used in the 2009 FMBB level 2 world championship! When he brought them out during training, I told everyone that he used them at the FMBB..lol

I think a passport for kids to get signed (by dogs or decoys) would be very cool. A club could even work a small scavenger hunt into it for their amusment. However to make it work there would need to be children there and enough spectators to justify the expense.

For the championships I agree that there should be an entry deadline. A person should know a week before hand if they want to enter or not. Either the dog is ready or it isn't. 

I don't think that morning-of entries are fair to the host club. A little communication goes a long way. A call or email to a host club of intent to trial takes about 2 seconds.

Tamara McIntosh


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## Geoff Empey

Tamara McIntosh said:


> For the championships I agree that there should be an entry deadline. A person should know a week before hand if they want to enter or not. Either the dog is ready or it isn't.
> 
> I don't think that morning-of entries are fair to the host club. A little communication goes a long way. A call or email to a host club of intent to trial takes about 2 seconds.


I agree though what I thought was people who DON'T have their entries in and paid for by a certain date is sometimes hard to roll with especially doing cross country jaunts. For example at our championships up here I just emailed the hosting club and said I was coming and if it was ok just to bring my entry fee and form with me. Instead of trying to find a fax machine or relying on the mail to send a cheque best to deliver by hand no? That's all I was trying to point out.


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## Timothy Saunders

I would like to give congrats to all competitors and decoys. here is a special congrats to Christine Johnson and Jason Davis . my peeps from conneticut, well done


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## Jason Davis

Timothy Saunders said:


> I would like to give congrats to all competitors and decoys. here is a special congrats to Christine Johnson and Jason Davis . my peeps from conneticut, well done


 Thanks Tim!!!!


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## Timothy Saunders

Billy DiSciullo said:


> Congratulations to all that competed this weekend at the NARA Championships!!
> Props to Breonna Davis, she did an AWESOME job training the new Rlll Champ!


hello William , I have been trying to ignore you on this board but that was not nice.

Terry Davis trained all the dogs in that club including yours. He held everyone's hand. I understand you have some issues with NARA and your old club. But you should still be nice and show some class.
YOU of all people should know how hard it is to maintain a dog. I've seen and heard these same people defend you in certain situations. Bitter doesn't suit you and I have always had respect for you and would like to continue to do so. 

Tim from Jersey


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## Billy DiSciullo

Tim,

I'm not going to get into a p'ing contest with you however, Breonna Davis did ALL the work on that dog with her father and I think the kid deserves some regconition for the work she has done. As far as Urban, Terry and I worked very hard on him and NO ONE is dening that so what's your point about my dog?? I'm in a different place now and I'm not claiming to do something I didn't do!! 
So I guess you're saying Breonna doesn't deserve ANY credit for training Titan?? I could be wrong but I believe she brought him to one or two championships?? She gets my props!!

Hope all is well!
Billy


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## Marcus Carroll

Breonna has owned a couple of really nice dogs since I've known her. I never hear any props given to her about the other dog she used to own/handle either.


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## Lisa Geller

Congrats to all who competed!
I look forward to someday participating... dog willing 
;-)


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## Debbie Skinner

There were a bunch of people videoing so I didn't video...my bad.. Two of the club members from Extreme Ring Dogs videoed their club dogs - Blitz FRI, Avatar, FRIIIs. I'll post when they get the vids up. We did video some of the decoy selection on Sunday when Avatar was used and will post it asap.


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## Billy DiSciullo

Leri,

Congratulations on winning the Rlll NARA Cup. I have followed your dog all season and you guys have been pretty consistant. You are an asset to the sport and I wish you the best of luck though out your career! 

Good Luck!
Billy


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## Timothy Saunders

Billy DiSciullo said:


> Tim,
> 
> I'm not going to get into a p'ing contest with you however, Breonna Davis did ALL the work on that dog with her father and I think the kid deserves some regconition for the work she has done. As far as Urban, Terry and I worked very hard on him and NO ONE is dening that so what's your point about my dog?? I'm in a different place now and I'm not claiming to do something I didn't do!!
> So I guess you're saying Breonna doesn't deserve ANY credit for training Titan?? I could be wrong but I believe she brought him to one or two championships?? She gets my props!!
> 
> Hope all is well!
> Billy


 The problem is not that Breonna doesn't deserve credit. the problem is that you didn't name Christine in your congrats. So that leads me to believe that you were taking a dig at Christine. I don't recall you giving Breonna Credit for starting your dog urban. that's the point I am making. I never said that you didn't work hard on your dog. Lets at least try to be fair and descent to people. Do you think that Christine is claiming to do something she didn't do? I don't think I have ever seen a post that doesn't start with the congrat to the handler of the dog. 
all is well thanks for asking. I have asked about you a few time but no one knew what you were doing.
good luck with Urban I think he is a very good dog.


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## Christine m Johnson

virginia reed said:


> christines' dutchie was fabulous and so was that teeny, tiny female Mal - pocket Mal


Thank you Virginia!


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## Christine m Johnson

Thank you Tim!


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## Christine m Johnson

Hi All,

I have and always will give Breonna credit for her great training with Titan. The one thing I can agree with Billy about is that Bre is a great trainer, before Billy bought Urban, Breonna and her father Terry put all of the foundation bitework and training into Urban, who is another great dog. Bre got Urban's Brevet and was trialing him in Ring 1 when Billy bought him.


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## Jason Davis

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Here it is folks, ever wonder why ringsport has never grown in the USA ??
> 
> The little crybabies are showing us right now. I read this same crap on a different forum. They all want their asses kissed, as they trained a dog to sit, OH WOW LOOK AT ME.
> 
> Get over yourselves and stop ruining the sport. Sure, it is good for the board, as the majority on here don't contribute shit and are just as worthless as you folks are most of the time.
> 
> Worthless. This was supposed to be about NARA's championship, not why your pussy is dry and sore. =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>
> Hey Jeff I don't know you or what you are refering to but I find your statements to be very trashy and highly offensive. I'm sure I speak for others when I say I would appreciate it if you keep coments like that to yourself. Thanks
> Nice one ringsport people, nice one. =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>


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## Jason Davis

Hey Jeff I don't know you or what you are refering to but I find your statements to be very trashy and highly offensive. I'm sure I speak for others when I say I would appreciate it if you keep coments like that to yourself. Thanks


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## Gerry Grimwood

Jason Davis said:


> Hey Jeff I don't know you or what you are refering to but I find your statements to be very trashy and highly offensive. I'm sure I speak for others when I say I would appreciate it if you keep coments like that to yourself. Thanks


:-#...nope :lol:

Assume the fetal position and pretend you're dead, sumbuddy gonna get a hurt on.


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## Jason Davis

Gerry Grimwood said:


> :-#...nope :lol:
> 
> Assume the fetal position and pretend you're dead, sumbuddy gonna get a hurt on.


I'm sorry Gerry I'm not sure what you mean


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## Gerry Grimwood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVlX9Ve5Rv4

It was a joke.


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## Jason Davis

Gerry Grimwood said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVlX9Ve5Rv4
> 
> It was a joke.


Now that's freakin funny!!! I almost drove off the road laughing so hard!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Hey Jason Davis, why don't you make me ??? 

I figure that is about all you would be able to understand. 3rd grade mentality and all.

How about you post something before you go telling me what to do ?? Better yet, of you don't like the way I speak, why don't you post a link to your ******* page where like the little 3rd grader you are, you called people all kinds of names, and used all the really bad words that will get you punched in the face if you say them in person.

That would be priceless there precious.

I am not sure what fantasy world you live in where you think you can tell me what and how to say shit. You can try though. This is gonna be fun.


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## Jason Davis

Wow you are a feisty little man aren't you? I guess that's why it's so easy to laugh at you. I'm not sure what your talking about when you refer to my facebook but I've never called anybody any names. I've also never said anything on there that I wouldn't say to them in person. So next time you decide to call someone out on something makes sure you have your facts straight. Ok cupcake? Hey but feel free to punch me in the face when you see me. Let me know how that goes for you. Where I come from grown men don't go around punching people because they're mad about what someone said. We kind of left that mentality back in highschool but it sounds like you haven't grown out of that state of mind yet. Don't worry kiddo, you'll get there. 
Well I think I'm done because to be quite honest, I think I've become a little dumber for even having a conversation with you. Ok stay funny you unaccomplished little fella. 
P.S. I apologize if I've used any words too complex for your little mind to understand


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## Jeff Oehlsen

No, I am good with your bigger words. Try to space your paragraphs a bit as it is hard to read all crunched up like that.

I am sure you are a tough guy. I am also sure that someone has heard of you, but all I know is that you are someones nephew, and thats about it. 

I am pretty sure that you were dumb to come into this conversation in the first place, and I am not sure that you didn't ride the short bus to school. Does everyone talk real slow to you ?? That is probably the first sign.

I do like cupcakes, maybe you should bake me some to apologize for being such a little crybaby when no one wanted to go to your seminar. How's that club going for you ?? I guess it is hard when it is someone else's sandbox, and they are not sure they want you to play there anymore.

Help me out with some history, what happened to command dogs ?? Wasn't that the name of the club ?? What happened after all those years.

I think this is what you should talk about. That way, when people are trying to start a club and just train dogs and not cry because people have their own opinions, and their own curiousities, they can recognize the problem children and avoid them.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Oh, and just curious, who is the number one decoy in France ?? Just curious to see if you know the answer.

I will give you a hint, it is not Dosta.


----------



## Erin Suggett

Hello Everyone,

I will be posting a list of thank you's ASAP to everyone who helped make this NARA Championship possible. Unfortunately, I sustained a pretty bad hand injury with a sprain and torn ligament on Monday after the Championship when I took the judge and decoys to a restaurant in Los Angeles that had a mechanical bull...and that's all I can say about that.  I'll let you use your imaginations, if you will. 

I can only type with one hand right now and it's quite difficult, especially when there are so many people to thank. 
So when I am able to, I will put up my list of thank you's here and elsewhere.

I will also be providing a recognition/thank you list for the Championship issue of the NARA Newsletter.

Thank you to_ everyone_ who came out to the Championship, on _AND_ off the field! It really was a good time!

Erin Suggett
President
So Cal Mal Ring Sport Club
2009 NARA Championship Host Club


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## Jason Davis

Hey thanks Erin. You and your club did an excelent job!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Oh I am sorry, did I stump you with that question ?? What were the scores at the last selectiff ?? Know that one ?? 

I am not done with you child, I will let you know when I am finished with you. Until then, you are my bitch until I say otherwise.


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## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Oh I am sorry, did I stump you with that question ?? What were the scores at the last selectiff ?? Know that one ??
> 
> I am not done with you child, I will let you know when I am finished with you. Until then, you are my bitch until I say otherwise.


Not Jaon but his scores this year were quite nice and he won the NARA Cup and NARA championship in FR II this year


FR2 Statistics 
Sniper vom Kelterhoff 300 295.8 294.105 296.635 279.6 1449.105 289.821


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I was talking about the scores that the decoys got. Not sure you want any of this.


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## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I was talking about the scores that the decoys got. Not sure you want any of this.


 
Not sure what a Fench Decoy score would have to do with Jason??


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Work on your comprehension then. It was all right there.


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## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Work on your comprehension then. It was all right there.


 
Well having met and talked to most of the people and Clubs you are referencing I still don't see the connection you are trying to make.

Maybe you could just spell it out, what are you saying? or are you just making an assumption based on some skewed bits and pieces of info you have been told?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: or are you just making an assumption based on some skewed bits and pieces of info you have been told?

Kinda like you puppet boy.

Here is what Jason neglected to tell you about the hell of a decoy and his candles.

1st J. Vanhove 4.23 points
2nd S. Bottaro 3.98 pts
3rd L. Schlernitzauer 3.59 pts
4th T. Korber 3.58 pts
5th F. Dosta 3.11 pts
6th H. Simon 2.46 pts


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## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: or are you just making an assumption based on some skewed bits and pieces of info you have been told?
> 
> Kinda like you puppet boy.
> 
> Here is what Jason neglected to tell you about the hell of a decoy and his candles.
> 
> 1st J. Vanhove 4.23 points
> 2nd S. Bottaro 3.98 pts
> 3rd L. Schlernitzauer 3.59 pts
> 4th T. Korber 3.58 pts
> 5th F. Dosta 3.11 pts
> 6th H. Simon 2.46 pts


 

OK, I still didn't read anywhere where Jason brought up Top French Decoys???


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I guess you will have to work harder. Pretty obvious I ran the curr.


----------



## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I guess you will have to work harder. Pretty obvious I ran the curr.


 
Then I guess you definition of a "curr" differs from mine.

Jason came to the NARA championships, took the Cup and championships for Level II, did the DIW for Level III, and is also a certified Level II FR Decoy.

Also was polite, firendly and helpfull to everyone I saw.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Then I guess you definition of a "curr" differs from mine.

I am quite sure it is.


----------



## Jason Davis

Hey Kyle,
This guy is mad because he made some trashy comments and I asked him nicely to keep those thoughts to himself and now he's freaking out on me. I appreciate your comments but I wouldn't bother. I've been ignoring him all day. I can't dumb myself down enough to have an adult conversation with him lol and looks like you can't either so I wouldn't even try. 
It was awesome meeting you and if I ever get out to Vegas to see my pops I'll look you up! Talk to you soon


----------



## Guest

Jason Davis said:


> Hey Kyle,
> This guy is mad because he made some trashy comments and I asked him nicely to keep those thoughts to himself and now he's freaking out on me. I appreciate your comments but I wouldn't bother. I've been ignoring him all day. I can't dumb myself down enough to have an adult conversation with him lol and looks like you can't either so I wouldn't even try.
> It was awesome meeting you and if I ever get out to Vegas to see my pops I'll look you up! Talk to you soon


 
What? I think Jeff scares you! :twisted:


----------



## Marcus Carroll

No. Once again, he attended one ARF seminar now he knows everything that is going on in NARA and in your club.


----------



## Guest

Marcus Carroll said:


> No. Once again, he attended one ARF seminar now he knows everything that is going on in NARA and in your club.


Sometimes, the ones who only have been to a few give more, learn more, are more passionate and educated themselves more, train more, etc etc. Just because you been to x amount of seminars doesn't mean shit! So many people go to all these seminars to build a resume and not for the pracitcal application or training. 

Maybe he does know more than me at my club.....since I don't have one! :lol:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Shoulda seen his little ******* page, he was crying because the people in the club chose to do something that he didn't want them to do. The control freak in him just went nuts. LOL How's your club doing ??

I am sure he is a brilliant trainer, and decoy, just ask him.

Jody, I am sure he is scared. Run little curr run ! LOL


----------



## Marcus Carroll

Jody, I was not talking about you. While I do think you are trying to instigate a little, you have not posted anything that I have any standing to agree with or deny. But I guess you don't really have to know anything about what's going on to get on the internet, call people names and comment on what is going on in their clubs though.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Marcus, relax. Your first few posts on the forum are kinda sucking. maybe you should try posting in the "I don't know shit" section of the forum. Maybe you can get some help from other boards with potty training and basic ob. LOL


----------



## Guest

Marcus Carroll said:


> Jody, I was not talking about you. While I do think you are trying to instigate a little, you have not posted anything that I have any standing to agree with or deny. But I guess you don't really have to know anything about what's going on to get on the internet, call people names and comment on what is going on in their clubs though.


 
Yeah, your right, and I don't. But never called names. And as I am on the internet, so are all of you, and some of these people I don't ever know how they train dogs to be honest, posting 24/7. 

No worries!


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## Marcus Carroll

Jeff,

OK. I have to admit that I laughed out loud at that last post. That was funny. Jason called me, and he thought it was hilarious too. You need medication.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Please, for the sake of us little guys..don't turn Ring into Sch..Let us believe it's different.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Jeff,

You need medication.

What do you think I am doing ?? You guys are so ****ing predictable and boring I just self medicate by making you look like the goofbags you are.

Cry cry cry, and when someone tells these knuckle heads they are crying too much, they get all tough and manly.....from a few states away.

Dogsports in the US blow chunks because of this kind of BS and all it takes is me to run him into your arms so he can have some buddy love and not feel so alone.

Then there is the boring factor. I have left out most of the really fun stuff to play with, as while I want the sport to grow, I also want to show people the goofballs that are out there. How long does your dog stay at level 2 ?? Do you keep trialing at level 2 so that you can go to the championships as a 2 ??

I think it is good experience to go to a championship at a level less than three, but really, who gives a ****. WOW level 2. WOW level 1. Is there a level 1 or 2 championship in FR anywhere else ??

French ring came here over twenty years ago, and the chickenshits still want to dumb it down.

Hey Kyle, how long do you have to be a level 1 decoy, and how many trials do you have to do before you get to try level 2 ?? How about level 3 ?? How many rules got changed in the rule book that is the same as France..........or is it ??

Pathetic, but a lot of fun to torture the control freaks with when you are bored.


----------



## Marcus Carroll

Maybe you wouldn't be so bored if you got up from your computer and went out and trained your dog. You should focus your energy on Mondio. Fix your own situation before you jump on ours.


----------



## virginia reed

yikes - so much anger over dogsports


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
Maybe you wouldn't be so bored if you got up from your computer and went out and trained your dog. You should focus your energy on Mondio. Fix your own situation before you jump on ours.

Yours ?? You do FR ? I already trained my dog today. My situation is just fine. LOL

I am not sure if you are arguing with me, or protecting your girlfriend.


----------



## Kevin lee

May be you can have the best dog...

May be you are the #1 decoy in the world...

May be you are the best trainer/handler...

But if you do not have the best TEAM in whatever dogsport you do...you are NOTHING.

Congratulation to Christine/Titan and Jason/Sniper!!!!


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## Jason Davis

Kevin lee said:


> May be you can have the best dog...
> 
> May be you are the #1 decoy in the world...
> 
> May be you are the best trainer/handler...
> 
> But if you do not have the best TEAM in whatever dogsport you do...you are NOTHING.
> 
> Congratulation to Christine/Titan and Jason/Sniper!!!!


Hey Thanks Kevin! I had an awesome year competing and hanging out with all you guys this year. Next year there's no cheep tequila aloud lol. Get ready for ring3 baby because here we come. See you soon


----------



## Bob Scott

Lets all get back on subject!!!


----------



## Timothy Saunders

Bob Scott said:


> Lets all get back on subject!!!


what was the subject again?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I think the current subject was how many people jason can call to come on this board and kiss his ass. A LOT of people with 3 or 4 posts. Kinda suspicious.

The results show that NARA is dying off, which is really sad. THe whole you can ONLY play in MY sandbox is pathetic, as well as their short term **** you politics.

The sad thing is 15 years from now, what will people be saying about FR ??


----------



## Geoff Empey

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I think the current subject was how many people jason can call to come on this board and kiss his ass. A LOT of people with 3 or 4 posts. Kinda suspicious.
> 
> The results show that NARA is dying off, which is really sad. THe whole you can ONLY play in MY sandbox is pathetic, as well as their short term **** you politics.
> 
> The sad thing is 15 years from now, what will people be saying about FR ??


I don't know Jeff but I invited a fair amount of these people here, many are lurkers some contribute. As I thought it was a great board so *EVERYONE *could talk about their passion. But some of your posts on this thread have crossed the line here on some people you do not know, plus on subjects you know little about, inflammatory for no reason. Like your post about "someones pussy being dry and sore" ... like come on Jeff. #-oBeing good friends and knowing the people your comments are directed at on a public access board makes me shake my head.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The results show that NARA is dying off, which is really sad.


Exactly how do the results show that?

At the 2009 Championships we had 10 FRI's, 4 FRII's and 6 FRIII's. And all the III's were trained/titled from Brevet - III here in the US.
At the 2008 Championships we had 7 FRI's, 1 FRII's and 4 FRIII's. At least 1 of the III's was not trained/titled from Brevet - III here
At the 2007 Championships we had 5 FRI's, 6 FRII's and 10 FRIII's I believe 2 of the III's were not trained/titled here
At the 2006 Championships we had 7 FRI's, 7 FRII's and 9 FRIII's. I believe 4 of the III's were not trained/titled here.
At the 2005 Championships we had 13 FRI's, 4 FRII's and 8 FRIII's. I believe 4 of those FRIII's were not trained/titled here

The overall entry at this years Championships is in line with past years, and actually IMO in some ways better. We've had more FRIII's in some past trials, but not as many US trained/titled FRIII's. Having the foreign entries is great, but doesn't really say anything about the state of NARA or Ring in the US. And I do think the current economy played into it, I know I would have entered 2 FRIII's in the trial but I had to pick and choose who to put the $$ into this year. I talked to other people who made the same decision this year.

In addition we've had quite a few trials this year with over 20 entries, and some trials with over 30. I'm seeing more dogs at FRIII who were trained/titled right here in the US, and not just passing at FRIII but getting some very good scores. We have a number of new judges, new decoys at all levels. 

I think NARA is doing just fine, and not just doing fine, it's growing.


----------



## Konnie Hein

Geoff Empey said:


> Being good friends and knowing the people your comments are directed at on a public access board makes me shake my head.


Hey, ditto - especially since I know most of what he's talking about first-hand.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

16 this year
12 last year
21 year before
23 year before
25 year before that. 

Sure Kadi, it is growing leaps and bounds. What, you figure you put a bunch of words in the way and it will all be fine ??


----------



## Jason Davis

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> 16 this year
> 12 last year
> 21 year before
> 23 year before
> 25 year before that.
> 
> Sure Kadi, it is growing leaps and bounds. What, you figure you put a bunch of words in the way and it will all be fine ??


Let's do the math together pumpkin. 10+4+6=20!!!! not 16. Don't try to do math in your head anymore. It's not your strong point. Last year was in PR which many people couldn't afford to go to including myself and many others in know. So thanks for proving Kadis point. It's been pretty consistent. There were also many R111 dogs that didn't come to the championships this year that had trialed all season long. NARA is doing quite well.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

First, let's fix your math.

20 this year
12 last year
21 year before
23 year before
25 year before that. 

I threw in the lower level numbers because IMO they all count, but you are the one who said only the III's count. And if you remove the dogs who weren't trained/titled here, or weren't even owned by someone who lived here at the time of the trial (in the past we routinely have both French and Mexican entries), the numbers are going up over time, or at least holding steady. From 2005 to 2009 at FRIII its 4, 5, 8, 3, 6 This was also one of the first years where there were an abundance of FRIII dogs available for the decoy selection, normally people are pulling lower level titled, but kind of know the FRIII routine, dogs out for the selection. We had 9 guys selecting, 4 of them doing the Super Selection, and no problems coming up with dogs for them. Off hand I can think of 6 FRIII dogs who were there who weren't competing.

You claim the results show NARA is dying off based on the entries at this years Championship, I disagree. I also don't believe you can base the health of an organization on just one trial, even if it is the Championship. IMO the club trials tell you more about an organization, since that is where the majority of the membership play.

But I also have to wonder, why do you care? You don't compete in FR, you don't train for it, you aren't a member, so why are you concerned about it?


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Kadi Thingvall said:


> .... And if you remove the dogs who weren't trained/titled here, or weren't even owned by someone who lived here at the time of the trial (in the past we routinely have both French and Mexican entries), ...


I just wanted to take this moment to say a few things that are not directed at any individual..just some things to consider. Just using this as a segway.

Not saying you are imply it, but I wouldn't want anyone to think they were 2nd class competitors if they imported a titled dog or bought a dog partially trained or with a lower title and then continued with it. 

Also, I hope competitors from other countries would be encouraged to attend and welcomed. Because when you say "remove the dogs that weren't.." it sounds negative..like these teams are not as valuable to French Ring in America. I think they are very valuable. You don't mean this, right? As both you and I along with many others have bought titled III level dogs from Europe and trialed them and trained decoys with them and showed "ring" for the first time through demos to people here. 

It would be personal choice to buy a pup or an adult, etc..

Again speaking from experience, I imported many titled dogs for others and myself in the past and these dogs were "teachers" for decoys and handlers and got many people excited about ring. Not to mention, their contribution to the working dog gene pool in the USA, which resulted in many owner-trained-usa bred dogs too.

Everyone should feel welcome to play at the ring sports, schutzhund, protection sports in the States. I hope to see less restrictions, biases and more growth. I think "less is more" when it comes to restrictions. Just as I want to be left alone when making breeding decisions of my dogs, I would like to see more freedom for the players of ring.

I breed working dogs and we all know they need a job or at least a serious hobby. It benefits me directly if ring sports grow here.

Also, if working dog sports do not grow it is not good for working dog breeders in the USA.

Bottom line is it's best for the working dog community for ring sports to grow and be seen in a positive light. I think if everyone tries to do this and thinks like this then the personal attacks will stop..or at least go down to a brevet level! :grin:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Do you think there is some sort of conspiracy ?? Does it make you uncomfortable that the numbers pretty much point out that it is not growing ??

I don't think that you can con me with the numbers game. And defending this pathetic attempt to make it seem like the sport is growing is not doing you much good.

Why don't we just give people the titles, and make everyone a level three decoy ??

Go ahead and point out my math skills, I am sure you are hoping that people will concentrate on that other than the truth.

I am a grown man. I can care about whatever the hell I want to care about. The fact is that I like the ringsports, and I don't like people changing things because they want to.

I think it is egotistical to think that you or anyone else knows better than the people that started the sport. Might as well call it ASR.

Help me out a little bit. How does one become a level three decoy in a week or so ?? Can you point out the rule that tells me what the requirement is ??

I mean if you want easy access to simple decoys, I have a buddy that runs a home for retards. They are pretty cool about doing stuff you want them to do, so I am sure you could convince them to work your dog in a trial.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Actually, I like Debbies post. WOW a novel idea, get along with others. Kindergarten stuff.


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Actually, I like Debbies post. WOW a novel idea, get along with others. Kindergarten stuff.


Not Kindergarten..I used "segway" :grin: or was it spelled wrong! #-o


----------



## Konnie Hein

Debbie Skinner said:


> Bottom line is it's best for the working dog community for ring sports to grow and be seen in a positive light. I think if everyone tries to do this and thinks like this then the personal attacks will stop..or at least go down to a brevet level! :grin:


And I think this statement probably includes professional conduct at various open-to-the-public type of seminars. I wasn't there, but based on what I've been reading here (and maybe I should take that with a grain of salt), that seemed to be lacking at what otherwise sounded like a nice educational opportunity.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Not Kindergarten..I used "segway" or was it spelled wrong!

Isn't that one of those cool little two wheeled things you ride around on ??


----------



## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Actually, I like Debbies post. WOW a novel idea, get along with others. Kindergarten stuff.


 
Yeh Jeff, everyone should look to you to provide an example of this!......](*,):roll:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

No answer on how a decoy gets level three ?? Does this mean that I am a level three decoy as well ?? Might as well just hand that to me as well. Is there an application process ?? How much does that cost ??

I am sure that there are plenty of others that would love to take advantage of that offer. Then we can send them to France to the selectiffs and let them try to work the championship, or the cup, or the athletic supporter LTD. challenge.

Where can I find that paperwork to become a level three decoy in just 10 days or so ?? Was this a limited time offer ?? 

I was wondering if I could do crazy stuff on the flee attack like just stop and catch the dog just any old way. Why bother running if you don't have to ?? LOL


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Konnie Hein said:


> And I think this statement probably includes professional conduct at various open-to-the-public type of seminars. I wasn't there, but based on what I've been reading here (and maybe I should take that with a grain of salt), that seemed to be lacking at what otherwise sounded like a nice educational opportunity.


Missed you there! You had planned on attending, right? A guy was there that said he knows you and your dog. I didn't catch his name...maybe it was Jason? There weren't many east coasters there. He asked if D'Only was from Master and said he was working another son so I knew it was you and your boy. Then said something about them having pin-heads and I had to laugh! I'm sure he was joking! There was a lot of "tougue and cheek" joking.


----------



## Kyle Sprag

"No answer on how a decoy gets level three ?? Does this mean that I am a level three decoy as well ?? Might as well just hand that to me as well. Is there an application process ?? How much does that cost ??"

I thought you just declared yourself a Grown Man? Read for yourself! I already told you the first step is to actualy BE a NARA member, you havn't got past that so no need to school you any further.

"Where can I find that paperwork to become a level three decoy in just 10 days or so ?? Was this a limited time offer ??"

See answer above.

"I was wondering if I could do crazy stuff on the flee attack like just stop and catch the dog just any old way. Why bother running if you don't have to ?? LOL"

I think you should conduct the Flee attack just like the rules say and the Judge asks, did you really need to ask this question?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Kyle, you are now a level three decoy. Cheers !!!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I guess the powers that be do not want to answer the question about how a level 1 decoy gets to level three in 1 easy step.

Controlling the information available is a sad way to try and control things.

Kinda like the growth in ring responses. HEY EVERYONE RING IS GROWING WE GOT TEN MORE PEOPLE..................and lost twenty. Been through that silliness.


----------



## Konnie Hein

Debbie Skinner said:


> Missed you there! You had planned on attending, right? A guy was there that said he knows you and your dog. I didn't catch his name...maybe it was Jason? There weren't many east coasters there. He asked if D'Only was from Master and said he was working another son so I knew it was you and your boy. Then said something about them having pin-heads and I had to laugh! I'm sure he was joking! There was a lot of "tougue and cheek" joking.


Debbie - I did plan to go. I had to stay home with a sick horse. Am sorry I missed it though. 

The guy you talked to was Jason. He picks on me all the time! This is what I get for having a Mal in a club with a bunch of Dutchies. :lol:


----------



## Kyle Sprag

You know what is sad about all your post here Jeff?

It is obvious that you are hooked on the Coolaid and just Paroting BS you are fed.

I travel to a lot of Ring trials, Both MR and FR. Every where I go I encourage people to cross over be it MR -> FR or FR -> MR. I have two dogs that have done Both with passing scores.


As someone who professes to be all about BUILDING ringsport and a Self Proclaimed MR Expert all your silly Bullshit over the past several weeks about NARA this and that does little to improve ANYTHING for ANYONE or ANY ORGANIZATION!

In fact if I was a FR player and was thinking about crossing over I would think twice because there might be a bunch of Gosiping Ass-holes like you all over a MR trial.


Maybe there is a BRIGHT Future for you in Marketing? :-\"


----------



## Jason Davis

Konnie Hein said:


> Debbie - I did plan to go. I had to stay home with a sick horse. Am sorry I missed it though.
> 
> The guy you talked to was Jason. He picks on me all the time! This is what I get for having a Mal in a club with a bunch of Dutchies. :lol:


No that's what you get for having a dog with a pin head. I still love him though


----------



## Konnie Hein

See what I mean, Debbie?!


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Konnie Hein said:


> Debbie - I did plan to go. I had to stay home with a sick horse. Am sorry I missed it though.
> 
> The guy you talked to was Jason. He picks on me all the time! This is what I get for having a Mal in a club with a bunch of Dutchies. :lol:


We have to try to be as tough as we expect our dogs to be and find humor in stuff! If you are ever asked "is that a purebred dutchie?" answer "there is no such thing!"


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Konnie Hein said:


> See what I mean, Debbie?!


Now that I recall..Jason had a funny shaped head!  Too bad you couldn't of made it. I guess next year the Championships will be on the East Coast somewhere. No specific club yet. But, all the states are small on the east coast so it will probably be close to you guys! O


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Who has Kool-aid ?? I missed out. No Kyle what is sad is that you just don't see it, just don't care, and it shows.

Who cares if your dog got passing scores ?? I don't, and it has nothing to do with what I am talking about. 

Who is feeding me information Kyle ?? Ever consider that I know the answers to the questions I post ?? I don't mean to get over your head, but it does happen from time to time.

You are one of the sheep, and I wonder who is pulling your strings ??

Nice try at redirecting. There were three decoys that passed the selectiff. You obviously do not know the rules because if you did, you would see they were gimmees. WHAT do the rules say ?? Can you answer this ??

I have a problem with anyone that drops their standards. Maybe this is something that you should seriously think about.

You should also think before you write, as I do not operate at the level you so plainly have shown us you operate at. It is not personal, it is not directed towards you at all, but it is a distraction from the real issue, which is abuse of office.

If you think that I do not have an agenda when I ask questions, you are sadly mistaken. You probably think that war is like football, right Kyle ?? I think of it as an onion. As long as we are straying off the subject, can you figure out the onion thing ??

Try to see the wizard for what he really is. Stop falling for the show, as you are the one with the Kool-aid mustache. LOL

Hugs and kisses, 

Your fiend,

Jeff


----------



## tracey schneider

Hey didn't you guys hear???? Illegal cock fighting doesn't start until december!! Lol

Seriously some of these posts are just all out stupid!

There was a championship, teams competed and there were high placements....congrats to those and all that had a helping hand! 

There is a lot of work that goes into getting a team championship level ready esp at the III level. All involved should get a pat on the back but really the only ones who should expect it are the teams that actually stepped out there for the world to criticize! When people fail no one wants to make claims of credit then!

So again congrats to those that stepped up to the plate, passed, and esp those that placed!

On the program....really should not be last minute entries...snooze you lose, changr your mind you lose your entry fee. But to save costs you can always put it up online in pdf for spectators to print their own, just a thought.

T


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## Debbie Skinner

pin-head states? :-o We can start a fight on my state is bigger than your state! Or your state is shaped funny! O


----------



## Debbie Skinner

tracey delin said:


> On the program....really should not be last minute entries...snooze you lose, changr your mind you lose your entry fee. But to save costs you can always put it up online in pdf for spectators to print their own, just a thought.
> 
> T


If there is electricity at the trial then using an ink jet you could print a few at a time if you run out and that way save $$ too. I think people know at least 1 week out if they are attending a Championships and then these "late entries" could be entered as well as last minute sponsors or advertisers which equals $$ to put toward trial expenses. Without a closing date it is hard to have a plan of when the Is, IIs, IIIs, decoy selection, etc. will be.

If the newsletter was online..pdf format this would save $$ and trees too. :idea: Would promote ring sport and the sensitive material (treas. report, board meetings) could be members only with an access code. The rest would be public to promote ring and so advertisers would get more bang for their buck. Most of the organizations that I belong to have the option of receiving _internet only _newsletters.


----------



## Konnie Hein

That's funny, Debbie! I'm not originally from Connecticut, so we can make fun of it as a pinhead state!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I guess that the women would rather discuss something else and avoid the issue. Ever wonder what the biggest problem in dogsports is ???

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You gotta admit, instead of reading something else, you had to read this, and when it got too uncomfortable, and you felt out of control, you had to talk about something else. Ever see a pattern in this ??


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Debbie Skinner said:


> Not saying you are imply it, but I wouldn't want anyone to think they were 2nd class competitors if they imported a titled dog or bought a dog partially trained or with a lower title and then continued with it.


Nope. Like you pointed out, I've done it myself, so I'd be the last to denigrate it in any way. I do however think we can measure the growth of a sport in this country more by how many people are taking dogs from Brevet to FRIII, or BH to SchIII, or Brevet to MRIII etc then we can by just how many people are competing in the III level at any given event. That doesn't however take away from the amount of work it takes to maintain a dog at III, regardless of how it got there, or take a dog with some training/titles to the III level.



> Also, I hope competitors from other countries would be encouraged to attend and welcomed. Because when you say "remove the dogs that weren't.." it sounds negative..


I think any team that wants to come compete should, and will be welcome. However, I don't think a team from France or Mexico who competes at our trials says anything about the growth or lack of growth of Ring in the US. 



> like these teams are not as valuable to French Ring in America. I think they are very valuable. You don't mean this, right?


Teams from other countries are valuable in terms of what they can teach us, the chance to watch another high level competitor work their dog, handle their dog in trial, etc. And the experience for our decoys to work one more high level dog. Or in the case of a foreign decoy the experience for our dogs to see another high level decoy, and our decoys the chance to work with another high level dog. Teams that consist of a dog previously trained and/or titled then imported here are also very valuable, for the reasons you stated later in your post. 

Any dog or handler here, regardless of where they came from, or what level they are at, can be a learning experience for someone else and has something to offer, I'm only addressing what I feel we should be looking at when we are measuring the growth or lack of growth of a sport in the US.


----------



## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Who has Kool-aid ?? I missed out. No Kyle what is sad is that you just don't see it, just don't care, and it shows.
> 
> Who cares if your dog got passing scores ?? I don't, and it has nothing to do with what I am talking about.
> 
> Who is feeding me information Kyle ?? Ever consider that I know the answers to the questions I post ?? I don't mean to get over your head, but it does happen from time to time.
> 
> You are one of the sheep, and I wonder who is pulling your strings ??
> 
> Nice try at redirecting. There were three decoys that passed the selectiff. You obviously do not know the rules because if you did, you would see they were gimmees. WHAT do the rules say ?? Can you answer this ??
> 
> I have a problem with anyone that drops their standards. Maybe this is something that you should seriously think about.
> 
> You should also think before you write, as I do not operate at the level you so plainly have shown us you operate at. It is not personal, it is not directed towards you at all, but it is a distraction from the real issue, which is abuse of office.
> 
> If you think that I do not have an agenda when I ask questions, you are sadly mistaken. You probably think that war is like football, right Kyle ?? I think of it as an onion. As long as we are straying off the subject, can you figure out the onion thing ??
> 
> Try to see the wizard for what he really is. Stop falling for the show, as you are the one with the Kool-aid mustache. LOL
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Your fiend,
> 
> Jeff


 
You see Jeff, I have GONE to the trials, I have TALKED to the people in person, I AM a member, I ATTENDED the member meetings, I have SEEN what goes on in person.

and you?


You need to know the onion to peal it!


----------



## Erin Suggett

Debbie Skinner said:


> If there is electricity at the trial then using an ink jet you could print a few at a time if you run out and that way save $$ too. I think people know at least 1 week out if they are attending a Championships and then these "late entries" could be entered as well as last minute sponsors or advertisers which equals $$ to put toward trial expenses. Without a closing date it is hard to have a plan of when the Is, IIs, IIIs, decoy selection, etc. will be.
> 
> If the newsletter was online..pdf format this would save $$ and trees too. :idea: Would promote ring sport and the sensitive material (treas. report, board meetings) could be members only with an access code. The rest would be public to promote ring and so advertisers would get more bang for their buck. Most of the organizations that I belong to have the option of receiving _internet only _newsletters.


True, much easier to plan with closing dates, etc. We really didn't want to do that this year, but realize it would be a benefit for next year. Programs are always nice and with most clubs now running their events with computers, printers, etc. at the field, there is really no reason it can't happen. It will be encouraged for next year. We did it in 2006 and it has been done at other Championships, as well. It's nice for people to have at the trial and to take home.

As for the online newsletter ideas/suggestions...we covered the same ideas/suggestions in our General Membership Meeting that took place at the Championship. All points you've mentioned were brought up. They are great ideas and obviously many others are thinking the same way. I love it!


----------



## Konnie Hein

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I guess that the women would rather discuss something else and avoid the issue. Ever wonder what the biggest problem in dogsports is ???
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> You gotta admit, instead of reading something else, you had to read this, and when it got too uncomfortable, and you felt out of control, you had to talk about something else. Ever see a pattern in this ??


Are you saying that the forum is a good overall representation of human nature in general?? Say it ain't so! :wink:


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I guess that the women would rather discuss something else and avoid the issue. Ever wonder what the biggest problem in dogsports is ???
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> You gotta admit, instead of reading something else, you had to read this, and when it got too uncomfortable, and you felt out of control, you had to talk about something else. Ever see a pattern in this ??


I didn't realize you "really" wanted a serious answer. Here I've done the research for you. I ignore stuff that I don't care about..I guess that's avoidance or time management! LOL 

Quote from the SCC Book - English translation -2009:

_Level 3:

How and When? All decoys in level 2 for more than a year, having officiated within a period of 2 years preceding the selection at 4 competitions (excluding brevets) under 3 different judges and with grading equal or superior to 3, are eligible to apply for selection, held at national level, under the aegis of the French Ring Supervisory Body (GTR) to whom the applications must be submitted. Providing the above conditions are fulfilled, a level 2 decoy is entitled to try for selection in level 3 as often as the candidate wants.

however, a decoy officiating at a series of Selection Heats or a Final is not allowed to officiate the following year at another series of Selection Heats.

With reference to the Replacement Decoy at the Final, a Reserve who has not officiated or has officiated with less than half the contestants is allowed to take part in a series of selection Heats the following year.

The same procedure applies to an official Decoy who has had to be replaced at any Final.

Frequency of application: every 2 years.

Juries: chosen by the CTR.

Validity of selection: 2 seasons or, as far as the Selection Heats are concerned, two series. Successful selection in level 3 entitles the Decoy to automatic renewal in level 2 for a period of 4 years.
_
..........................it continues a bit more....

*page 6 of SCC Decoy's Guidebook to French Ringsport Trials and Brevet Protection Exercises for working dogs - 2009.*


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Erin Suggett said:


> True, much easier to plan with closing dates, etc. We really didn't want to do that this year, but realize it would be a benefit for next year. Programs are always nice and with most clubs now running their events with computers, printers, etc. at the field, there is really no reason it can't happen. It will be encouraged for next year. We did it in 2006 and it has been done at other Championships, as well. It's nice for people to have at the trial and to take home.
> 
> As for the online newsletter ideas/suggestions...we covered the same ideas/suggestions in our General Membership Meeting that took place at the Championship. All points you've mentioned were brought up. They are great ideas and obviously many others are thinking the same way. I love it!


Yes, and the program is a reference guide for people to hold onto..more interesting for the advertisers as well.

Yes, the go green theme is catching on ... save a tree..paperless communications.


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Konnie Hein said:


> Are you saying that the forum is a good overall representation of human nature in general?? Say it ain't so! :wink:



it's degenerated from nara vs arf to women vs men!


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Do you think there is some sort of conspiracy ?? Does it make you uncomfortable that the numbers pretty much point out that it is not growing ??


You said it is dying. I said it is not. Holding it's own also means not dying. If it was dying, the numbers would be getting smaller and smaller. They aren't.

Just because someone doesn't answer in the time frame you want, doesn't mean they are avoiding you or the questions.

4 decoys passed the super selection, not 3. The requirements as to who can enter the selection can be found on the NARA website in the policies section, they are the same requirements that have been in place for quite a few years. We are planning to rework some of this, however the policies in place at the time of the trial dictated who could enter, so we followed those. 

There were actually two decoy selections at the Championships this year. 5 decoys entered the regular Decoy Selection to try for their Level 1. 4 entered the Decoy Super Selection which is a level 3 selection and was run based on the rules in France at this time. Scoring is done in 3 parts. The written test has 1 score, the physical test is made up of 4 or 5 sections which are then averaged to get a final score, and the dog work portion is done the same as the physical, with each individual exercise (face, flee, defense, etc) being scored. The 3 averages are then averaged to get a final overall score. So a decoy may not do really well on one exercise in a given area, but kick butt in another exercise in the same area, so their final average works out. 

There were no "gimmees", the decoys went out, worked their butts off, and earned their selections. Did they do everything 100% perfect? No, but their overall performances qualified them for Level 3 in the eyes of the judge, who is no "gimmee" himself. I think he proved that when he failed all the decoys attempting their level 1.


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Kadi Thingvall said:


> You said it is dying. I said it is not. Holding it's own also means not dying. If it was dying, the numbers would be getting smaller and smaller. They aren't.


The membership of NARA is less now than in the early 1990s. 

Does anyone know when it started and theories on why? 

Any statistics on how many members ARF and AFRA had before the merger and creation of NARA? 

Was ARF and AFRA membership declining prior to the merger?

Did the membership increase for awhile after the formation of NARA or stay the same and then start declining a few years later? By 2000, the membership was about 1/2 of the early 1990s as I recall.

Information can lead to a correction of the problem possibly.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Kool-aid

* A Level I NARA decoy participating in the DSS may be elevated to Level II status, if, in the opinion of the French QS Judge presiding over the DSS, Level II is the appropriate classification for that decoy. 
* NARA Level II decoys who pass the DSS will earn the "Level III" designation. This designation will be in effect for two years from the DSS. After two years, they will return to their original designation. (Note: If the original certification expired during this timeframe, decoys are reminded they will need to re-certify prior to the expiration of their Level III status) 

Sooooo, a level 1 goes to level 3 ????

MMMMMMmmmmmm black cherry flavor.


----------



## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Kool-aid
> 
> * A Level I NARA decoy participating in the DSS may be elevated to Level II status, if, in the opinion of the French QS Judge presiding over the DSS, Level II is the appropriate classification for that decoy.
> * NARA Level II decoys who pass the DSS will earn the "Level III" designation. This designation will be in effect for two years from the DSS. After two years, they will return to their original designation. (Note: If the original certification expired during this timeframe, decoys are reminded they will need to re-certify prior to the expiration of their Level III status)
> 
> Sooooo, a level 1 goes to level 3 ????
> 
> MMMMMMmmmmmm black cherry flavor.


 
So you know more from your computer vantage point than a long time French French Ring and Campangne Judge knows about the level of work that was done at the DSS?? :roll::-o:roll:


----------



## Jason Davis

What Level 1 decoy was awarded their Level 111???


----------



## Tamara McIntosh

Hey Kadi,

Isn't this neat?? NARA has their own Jerry Cudahy too now! We all thought he was one in a million but apparently he has been giving lessons to Jeff O. 

Tamara McIntosh


----------



## David Ruby

Congrats to those who participated a/o titled. I really don't know much or honestly care about the politics or the NARA vs. ARF either. I doubt the dogs care much either. I'm sure there are nice people in both organizations. It seems like a fun sport, the dogs are sure fun to watch, and I know it's a lot of work to get there, so kudos to those who are actually doing it. You guys and gals deserve all the respect you get, and probably more and I hope it continues to thrive.

Anyway, respect to the participants. I've heard good things about several of the people who placed, so it's cool to read about your ongoing success.

-Cheers


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> * A Level I NARA decoy participating in the DSS may be elevated to Level II status, if, in the opinion of the French QS Judge presiding over the DSS, Level II is the appropriate classification for that decoy.
> * NARA Level II decoys who pass the DSS will earn the "Level III" designation. This designation will be in effect for two years from the DSS. After two years, they will return to their original designation. (Note: If the original certification expired during this timeframe, decoys are reminded they will need to re-certify prior to the expiration of their Level III status)
> 
> Sooooo, a level 1 goes to level 3 ????


Try reading it again. 

A Level I who particpates in the DSS may be elevated to a Level II ...

A Level II who passes the DSS can earn the Level III.

Nowhere does it say a Level I who passes the DSS can be elevated to a Level III.

But once again, why do you care? If a Level I decoy came out to the selection and blew away a French QS judge, to the point he felt compelled to give that decoy Level III status, why is that a problem for you?


----------



## Jason Davis

Hey Jeff I'll be going go Daves FR trial this month in Texas. Hope to see you there. I would love meeting you in person.


----------



## Matt Nieuwkoop

All that competed in the DSS were Level II decoys.


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## Geoff Empey

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Judge: Camille Tisserand
> Decoys: Manuel Montero and Waleed Maalouf
> 
> 2009 NARA Cup Scores
> Place Breed Sex Name of Dog Handler Team Score
> 
> FRI
> 1 BBM/M Zipady du Albree Alan Miller BARC 180.7
> 2 BBM/M Havok du Dantero Kadi Thingvall SCABR 171.4
> 3 BBM/M Blitz des Ombres Valeureux Dean Porterfield ERD 169.7
> 4 BBM/M Beoaooh A Living Fire Scout Tiffany Dennis Ind 162.6
> 5 BBM/M Giacomo des Barriques Sarah Prelle Ind 158.7
> 6 DS/F Vrijheid's Brigita Kikki Sonja K Nordstrom UPS 157.1
> 7 GSD/M Buck vom Grosswardein Shelley Nelson Ind 140.6
> 8 BBM/M Dovrefjelds Finnister Chris Libs Ind 138.4
> 9 BBM/M Hairston's Capone Outkast Patricia Hairston Ind 125.8
> 10 BBM/F Soaring China du Chambliss DeVell Chambliss GTRS 91.1
> 
> Dog in White: "Momo" des Contes d'Hoffmann/Stephanie O'Brien
> Deputy Judge: Leri Hanson
> 
> 
> FR1 Statistics
> Zipady du Albree 184.59 181.9 160.4 175.630 180.7 888.29 177.658
> Beoaodh A Living Fire Scout 174.7 171.4 170.31 172.137 162.6 841.61 168.322
> Havok du Dantero 165.3 163.8 147.2 158.767 171.4 819.1 163.82


Hey what happened to Giacamo des Barriques? That dog was pretty close to perfect all year in Lvl 1 was he/she injured and couldn't compete?


----------



## Jason Davis

Hey Geoff. He lost the revolver because he ran down the field looking for the decoy he just got done working on. Brain fart lol. He didn't notice the guy standing there with the big fluffy suit shooting the gun. Gotta love dogs! Other then that he has a pretty good performance.


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## Kadi Thingvall

Giac had one of those "moments" where you just throw your hands up and realize they are animals, not robots  Near perfect routine as usual, until the protection. Waleed did the first 2 bite exercises in FRI, then he left the field and Manuel came out to do the next one (gun attack). Giac thought Waleed was way to much fun and instead of going and engaging Manuel started looking for Wally then returned to his handler. The next exercise he was fine, but even then on the recall he was looking around like he was wondering "where's Wally".


----------



## Kyle Sprag

Jason Davis said:


> Hey Jeff I'll be going go Daves FR trial this month in Texas. Hope to see you there. I would love meeting you in person.


 
I was thinking the same thing but it looks like it may be rescheduled:

Crist Jeff, it is only about 100 miles!!!!!

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=San...&2s=TX&2y=US&2l=30.5425&2g=-97.546402&2v=CITY

*San Gabriel Ringers*

Judge: Richard Bonilla (NARA)
Canine Headquarters, 1350 County Rd. 130, Hutto, TX 78634
November 28, 2009
TO BE RESCHEDULED


Jeff O. Grand Oportunity to show off all Your and Dog's Mad Crazy SKILZZZ! LOL :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Be more than glad to meet you in person. I am sure Dave will have a trial there, and you can tell me your side in person. The whole thing. You can tell me all the reasons why people in your club went to another clubs seminar, and why it was so horrible.


----------



## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Be more than glad to meet you in person. I am sure Dave will have a trial there, and you can tell me your side in person. The whole thing. You can tell me all the reasons why people in your club went to another clubs seminar, and why it was so horrible.


 
What was it you wrote me a week or so ago about the View from your Back? :-\":-\"

BTW, how is it? :wink:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
But once again, why do you care? If a Level I decoy came out to the selection and blew away a French QS judge, to the point he felt compelled to give that decoy Level III status, why is that a problem for you?

What is the likelyhood of this happening ?? I am just curious. 

How long do you have to be a level two before you can be a level three ??

How many trials does he have to do ??


----------



## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> But once again, why do you care? If a Level I decoy came out to the selection and blew away a French QS judge, to the point he felt compelled to give that decoy Level III status, why is that a problem for you?
> 
> What is the likelyhood of this happening ?? I am just curious.
> 
> How long do you have to be a level two before you can be a level three ??
> 
> How many trials does he have to do ??


 
Base on this:


*"Level 2:*


There may be a Level 2 decoy selection at any NARA recognized trial. The selection must be organized with the authorization of the NARA Secretary and/or the Director of Decoys from the North American Ring Association.Any decoy that has not qualified to be selected for level 2 may not re-select for that level for a minimum of 6 months.


Length of Selection: 4 years


Conditions of Selection: The Level 1 decoy, having officiated in4 trials of which, at least three (3) in Ring III, with 2 different judges and with favorable reports.


Sector of allowed Activities: Brevet, Trials in Ring I, II, III and The North American Ring Associations Championships, The Cup of Americas and the NARA Decoy Super-Selection held at the NARA Championship trial. The same applies for foreign countries."​



from this and what was posted earlier the individual in question Does meet whatever requriements there are. Like myself and other wrote, it is in large up to the FRENCH QS Judge!​


----------



## Geoff Empey

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Giac had one of those "moments" where you just throw your hands up and realize they are animals, not robots  Near perfect routine as usual, until the protection. Waleed did the first 2 bite exercises in FRI, then he left the field and Manuel came out to do the next one (gun attack). Giac thought Waleed was way to much fun and instead of going and engaging Manuel started looking for Wally then returned to his handler. The next exercise he was fine, but even then on the recall he was looking around like he was wondering "where's Wally".


LOL I've partied with Waleed so I know how the dog may have felt! 

So the 200 scores during the year still didn't secure the overall championship? In hindsight I should've got a flight and gone to compete with y'all but I thought I had no chance with those scores the Giac team posted during the season. Plus I had to commit my resources first to Vancouver, damn damn. Hindsight = 20-20!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Not really what I asked for once again. You need to focus a bit more. Try again.

The view from my back ?? Who was it that gave me the view ?? With your terrible reading comprehension, are you sure ??

Lets try again Kyle. How long do you have to be level 2, and how many trials do they have to do before they are able to go to level three ??

I am curious, as the rules are the same as the rules in France right ?? We could go over how long it takes to become a judge as well.


----------



## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Not really what I asked for once again. You need to focus a bit more. Try again.
> 
> The view from my back ?? Who was it that gave me the view ?? With your terrible reading comprehension, are you sure ??
> 
> Lets try again Kyle. How long do you have to be level 2, and how many trials do they have to do before they are able to go to level three ??
> 
> I am curious, as the rules are the same as the rules in France right ?? We could go over how long it takes to become a judge as well.


 
The way I read it a Level III designation is a TWO Year stent that MAY be awarded during a DSS, after which the decoy returnes to Level II.

I believe this is to reward participation in a DSS and recognize Decoys that are at their PEAK in a FRENCH QS judges Opinion.


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff

Kadi Thingvall said:


> At the 2009 Championships we had 10 FRI's, 4 FRII's and 6 FRIII's. And all the III's were trained/titled from Brevet - III here in the US.
> At the 2008 Championships we had 7 FRI's, 1 FRII's and 4 FRIII's. At least 1 of the III's was not trained/titled from Brevet - III here
> At the 2007 Championships we had 5 FRI's, 6 FRII's and 10 FRIII's I believe 2 of the III's were not trained/titled here
> At the 2006 Championships we had 7 FRI's, 7 FRII's and 9 FRIII's. I believe 4 of the III's were not trained/titled here.
> At the 2005 Championships we had 13 FRI's, 4 FRII's and 8 FRIII's. I believe 4 of those FRIII's were not trained/titled here
> ...
> 
> I think NARA is doing just fine, and not just doing fine, it's growing.



*I'm curious...how many members currently in NARA? and how many members back to the same years, 2005-2009? I think it would help us all understand the organization growing, or how to help it grow if it isn't. *



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> *Ever wonder what the biggest problem in dogsports is ???*


Dogsport in general, be it Schutzhund or Ringsport, seems like it has a tremendously small growth curve and decline. Coming from the world of Schutzhund, we have made some amazing friends, and also met some neat people in Ringsport. Some clubs are great, some not so much. 

We've met board members from FCI, SV, and a number of other organizations as well as some world class competitors. Some of them believe that dogsport has shrunk dramatically because it has to compete with many other instant gratification things that don't require effort: Internet use, television use, video gaming, and god knows gazmillions of other things out there. A good number of people simply don't want to put in the long term effort required to have a working dog who can perform. 

Most importantly, though, we've been through TONS of clubs as a result of living in multiple parts of the country. Some clubs are great, most are disgustingly cliquish and will only accept you if they "like" you, independent of your ability as a dog trainer or desire to learn. Unfortunately, we discourage or intimidate far too many for the quality of a far few, often with an unwelcoming, unhelpful attitude. 

Let's see...



Kadi Thingvall said:


> *But I also have to wonder, why do you care? You don't compete in FR, you don't train for it, you aren't a member, so why are you concerned about it?*


Who would want to train in Dogsport when so many of us display such a hostile, unwelcoming attitude? 

Inconsistent rules, inconsistent attitudes, hostile behaviors, unfriendly approaches, backbiting and criticisms are things that money paying, dog purchasing, knowledge hungry newbies, softer as they may be, tend to avoid.

Seriously - a little peek in the mirror may explain why our sport and its acceptance in America struggles so much.

Congratulations to all of the participants at the Nara trials! You guys rocked!


----------



## Jason Davis

Haha. Don't flatter yourself. Your not even close of deserving any type of explanation from me. I just want to pick your brain about decoying and dog training. I have no clue how to get my dog to r3 and it sounds like your quite the expert. I've heard from so many people how amazing of a decoy and trainer you are so hopefully by spending time with you I can achieve your level of success. That is of course if you can get time off from the gas station and seperate yourself from your computer for a few hours. I can't wait good buddy!!!!


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is the likelyhood of this happening ?? I am just curious.


Don't know, it would depend on the judge and the decoys who were present.



> How long do you have to be a level two before you can be a level three ??
> 
> How many trials does he have to do ??


The current policy only states that a decoy has to be a Level II to compete in the DSS and move up to Level III. 



> I am curious, as the rules are the same as the rules in France right ??


Which rules? The judge followed the same rules for the DSS that he'd follow in France in terms of the test that was given. IE the questions on the written test, how far/fast they have to run, etc. I don't know if there are differences regarding who can take the test between NARA and France, I believe there are though since our current policy does allow Level I decoys to enter the DSS. I can't see this happening in France since they have a ton of decoys who enter the DSS. More decoys then we have in the entire US. So they need a selection process to pare down the entries before they even get started.



> We could go over how long it takes to become a judge as well.


Feel free to bring it up if you really want to, although I have to wonder once again "why do you care?". If your point is that NARA has it's own judges program, which is different from the French one, so what? The various US Schutzhund organizations have their own judges programs also, some different from Germany. Mondio Ring has it's own judges program. As far as how long it takes to become a judge, it depends on the individual and how quickly they get through the requirements. If you want to see the specific requirements they are posted on the NARA website.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Geoff Empey said:


> So the 200 scores during the year still didn't secure the overall championship?


Both Giacamo and Daisy got hit by a little statement in the policy that says the dog has to earn a passing score at the Championships to be considered for placement. They both just barely missed a passing score (Daisy broke the line on her very last exercise :-( ) So although their final averages still had them in one of the top 3 spots, neither qualified for a spot per the policy.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

How old is the current policy ??

Quote: Which rules?

They are all the same, or no. I have wondered that.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Haha. Don't flatter yourself. Your not even close of deserving any type of explanation from me. I just want to pick your brain about decoying and dog training. I have no clue how to get my dog to r3 and it sounds like your quite the expert. I've heard from so many people how amazing of a decoy and trainer you are so hopefully by spending time with you I can achieve your level of success. That is of course if you can get time off from the gas station and seperate yourself from your computer for a few hours. I can't wait good buddy!!!!

What are you gonna do, spank me ?? Or will you just be quiet and stay off to one side ??

It is more fun to get this type of response from you. See you at the trial.


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## Kadi Thingvall

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How old is the current policy ??


Depends on which part of it you are asking about. Most of the policies on the website have a date when they were last modified. The one currently on the website regarding the Decoy Super Selection has been in place since August of 2007. I believe this policy was implemented by the last BOD since a Super Selection policy is not mentioned in one of my archived copies dated Dec 04, 2006.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What are you gonna do, spank me ?? Or will you just be quiet and stay off to one side ??
> 
> It is more fun to get this type of response from you. See you at the trial.


 
Jeff, I think you could get rich as a motivational speaker. Think about it, you could be fartin through silk before you know it :lol:


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## Geoff Empey

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Both Giacamo and Daisy got hit by a little statement in the policy that says the dog has to earn a passing score at the Championships to be considered for placement. They both just barely missed a passing score (Daisy broke the line on her very last exercise :-( ) So although their final averages still had them in one of the top 3 spots, neither qualified for a spot per the policy.


Wow that's rough! Still doesn't take away that both teams are awesome and had an awesome year. I love the Daisynator, geriatric girl Malinois rule! We failed one trial in CT as well this year it was quite a learning experience on my part. I zeroed on 2 exercises and both were my fault total handler error. Even though we failed I still consider it a success as both the dog and I learnt some things that will bode well for our Ringsport career.


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## Jason Davis

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Haha. Don't flatter yourself. Your not even close of deserving any type of explanation from me. I just want to pick your brain about decoying and dog training. I have no clue how to get my dog to r3 and it sounds like your quite the expert. I've heard from so many people how amazing of a decoy and trainer you are so hopefully by spending time with you I can achieve your level of success. That is of course if you can get time off from the gas station and seperate yourself from your computer for a few hours. I can't wait good buddy!!!!
> 
> What are you gonna do, spank me ?? Or will you just be quiet and stay off to one side ??
> 
> It is more fun to get this type of response from you. See you at the trial.



Bro I already told you. I want to come learn from you. No spanking and no being quiet. I just want your knowledge is all!!


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## Gerry Grimwood

Kind of off topic, how do you ring people start training a dog doing leg bites to keep it's head on the outside of the leg ?


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## Kyle Sprag

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Kind of off topic, how do you ring people start training a dog doing leg bites to keep it's head on the outside of the leg ?


 
The leg needs to be presented so that is the only way the dog can bite. Dog must be on a line and takes many reps.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Kyle Sprag said:


> The leg needs to be presented so that is the only way the dog can bite.


Do you mean putting the leg at an inward angle towards the centerline of a body ?


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## Geoff Empey

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Kind of off topic, how do you ring people start training a dog doing leg bites to keep it's head on the outside of the leg ?





Kyle Sprag said:


> The leg needs to be presented so that is the only way the dog can bite. Dog must be on a line and takes many reps.


Like this Gerry ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr8loSQWES0

And when you are ready to try it for real I got a good guy in Glenwood AB to send you too.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Thanks for that video, Glenwod is real close to where I live.

How do you think that person would work with a dog that was more on to the leg as opposed to pulling on the leg sleeve ?


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## Geoff Empey

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Thanks for that video, Glenwod is real close to where I live.
> 
> How do you think that person would work with a dog that was more on to the leg as opposed to pulling on the leg sleeve ?


The guy is a Lvl 2 decoy so don't worry about it I'll send you a PM with his contact info . .


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## Kyle Sprag

that is a great video you posted Jeff. Adrian is a much under-rated trainer. very nice work!


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## Geoff Empey

Kyle Sprag said:


> that is a great video you posted Jeff. Adrian is a much under-rated trainer. very nice work!


Yeah I like the video Kely. I think it is the best video that actually shows how to build a green dog's foundation for the legs. Mr Centeno obviously knows his stuff I think he a hand in a few of the dogs at this years championship. Giac etc.


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## Jason Davis

Geoff Empey said:


> Yeah I like the video Kely. I think it is the best video that actually shows how to build a green dog's foundation for the legs. Mr Centeno obviously knows his stuff I think he a hand in a few of the dogs at this years championship. Giac etc.


I believe Leri Hanson with Changa also train with him. The were the NARA Cup winners and Vice Champion for the season. Very good team


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## Breonna Davis

Hey everyone! Well i had someone call me and tell me that I was on this site, i have never heard of it until she sent me the link! I do want to first off congratulate everyone for doing such an amazing job at the championships! I know all the hard work that had to go into all the dogs! I want to send a congrads to Christine and Jason, these are two people that are very dear to my heart! I wish I could have been there to see Titan out on the field, but unfortunately i could not make it! Billy thank you for remembering me!  Urban was the first dog that i ever started training and he taught me many things! The first time that i went on the trial field with him to get his brevet i failed, and i mean really bad. I did not let it get me down and i took him to ring 1. Then came my boy Titan, him and i worked on so many things together and we both taught each other so many different things. I loved him very much and i still do! But i am very glad that christine has been able to keep him going, she has done an amazing job with him. The thing that really confuses me and always has is this............ It does not matter what sport you do with your dog, Ring sport, PSA, Schutzhund, ext... but we are all doing one of them for a reason, the love for our dogs, the love of training and being out there on the field connecting with your dog. You may not like someone or their dog, the way they train, the way that handle the dog, but it really does not matter. Whether we realize it or not we all have something in common. Why fight and argue and put people down? Just have fun and and enjoy every minute of it. I have not been out on the trial field for a few years now, and i thought with my new dog that i have, i would find a club and get back out there again, but after reading all the animosity it makes me not even want to. I really miss being out there on the field with Titan and having a great time, and yes i wish i could still be out there, but life grabbed me and I am not able to. I just wish that everyone could realize that even if you do not like the way someone decoys, trains, handles, or how they score, that we are all in it for the same reason...... Our love for dogs!


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## Mike Fitzgerald

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Don't know, it would depend on the judge and the decoys who were present.
> 
> 
> 
> The current policy only states that a decoy has to be a Level II to compete in the DSS and move up to Level III.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote from the SCC Book - English translation -2009:
> 
> _Level 3:
> 
> How and When? All decoys in level 2 for more than a year, having officiated within a period of 2 years preceding the selection at 4 competitions (excluding brevets) under 3 different judges and with grading equal or superior to 3, are eligible to apply for selection, held at national level, under the aegis of the French Ring Supervisory Body (GTR) to whom the applications must be submitted. Providing the above conditions are fulfilled, a level 2 decoy is entitled to try for selection in level 3 as often as the candidate wants.
> 
> 
> Hey Jeff I believe someone else posted this earlier in the thread, it gives a little better more detailed explination for you. There is more to the policy but I think this answers your question._


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Thank you for the response. It is the answer to my question, and very clear.

THis has been a fun thread. I have enjoyed most of it, and got a lot of interesting opinions on myself and on ringsport.

What a beautiful sport this is. I posted a video of a GSD with a really solid and correct performance. When I look at that video, which I do a lot, I see how people can take that passion and channel it in odd ways.

I want to see ring grow, and I want to do away with some of the baggage that I see a lot of people carrying about. I know I have a lot, when it come to following the rules, when it comes to controlling people, and all the rest that comes with being a bit obsessive about a sport, or sports.

I would like to see all scores allowed in all scorebooks and the bar raised. For the dogs, the handlers, the decoys, the judges.

I would like people to see that the dog in front of you is not who you are, but who you trained it to be. I would like people to be able to point out discrepancies in a performance without people acting like it is the end of the world and HOW DARE YOU, type attitudes.

Someday I hope that dogsports can pull together and make them so strong that they have national importance, so that people actually know what the **** I am talking about, not just "what ring" ??

Here is APBAT's site on daily motion. Ulko is right up top for you to enjoy his performance. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/apbat


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