# Why there's no live bites reported.



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Jake, as usual there was little resolve on your question about PP dogs dong live bites. As that thread was locked Mods if I am out of place here please lock or remove this one as well, but since these types of questions keep getting asked, and not answered, maybe a little more insight into the PP Dog business will help. First there are two types of people with Protection trained dogs, those that _want_ a Protection dog, and those that _need_ a Protection trained dog.

Those that _Want_ a Protection dog research breeds, find a training club or trainer, involve their dog in their every day life, some go on the internet and try to learn more or just talk about their dog. But because of their very proactive approach to their dog and it’s training they are maximizing the deterrent affect of their dog. They are unlikely to be attacked. And although they may be on the internet, they wont have much to report about live bites.

Those that_ Need _a Protection dog are, the victims of Domestic violence, business men that discover their partner is a crook, the owner of a coin operated business in very high crime parts of a big city. These people will find a trained dog and because they are already behind the eight ball, they are the group most likely to use that dog in a bite. But as the need is the reason for the dog, and not a strong interest in dogs in general, and because the bite will occur as a part of their personal life they may want to keep private, they are very unlikely to give out all the details on a message board.

In my guard dog company K9 Security Services, I have eighty-seven written incidents of dogs biting. The majorities were in leased guard dog situations, many more were with dog and a handler while patrolling construction sites, labor strikes etc. But about a third involved customers that purchased Protection trained dogs. Would I go on the internet and disclose their personal situations? Of course not and neither will any one that makes a living with Personal Protection dogs unless they are in a hurry to change professions.

Unfortunately that leaves the door wide open for the wanna-bes to go on the internet and become instant experts, but that is just part of the price you pay for an internet that can also bring you solid info from around the world. It’s just up to the reader to sort out.


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## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

or it could just be because the owner of the dog doesnt want to get sued and the robber doesnt want to go to jail for attempted robbery or some other criminal offense he/she may have attempted. so they keep it to themselves...??


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

steve davis said:


> or it could just be because the owner of the dog doesnt want to get sued and the robber doesnt want to go to jail for attempted robbery or some other criminal offense he/she may have attempted. so they keep it to themselves...??


Sounds like a good answer to me.=D>


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I will report a live bite because I live in a place where nobody gives a hoot. My male Dutchie bit a guy trying to rob my truck in broad in daylight, downtown Nicoya, Costa Rica.

The cops showed up after the bite and laughed about it.

The crowd that gathered loved it too.:lol:


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Purely speculation on my part but I always figured it was a cover your ass not to discuss a "live bite" if your dog so happens to have done such. My reasoning behind this is, with our judicial system being what it is, it leaves you liable for repercussions. Example:

We had a break in when I first moved here around 2:30 AM, one came through the back sliding glass door (my fault because it won't lock with the dog door) and someone was trying the front door. Dog goes nuts, guy flees through the back yard and jumps the fence, gets away without being bitten as I had a hold of my dog.

I see a good likelyhood of me being sued had she bitten him, at least for medical bills, whether he was wrong for breaking into my house or not. So, that's why I think actual live bites aren't something that is discussed, you never know who is reading that might report you for having a "dangerous" or "vicious" dog even if it was only doing it's job. (I've also seen someone reported for posting pictures on another forum before, nothing is secret online).

Just my take on it though, please correct me if I am wrong.


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

_I will report a live bite because I live in a place where nobody gives a hoot. My male Dutchie bit a guy trying to rob my truck in broad in daylight, downtown Nicoya, Costa Rica.
The cops showed up after the bite and laughed about it._ _








The crowd that gathered loved it too.


_Lee, one of my favorite places to surf is Mal Pais. It's been a while since I've been to Costa Rica (my last trip took me to Panama) but my favorite place on earth is Costa Rica._ And I loved, Loved, Loved, Mal Pais.
You are one lucky man. If I ever get down that way I'd love to work, talk dogs and eat some good local food / beer after a long surf session... 
Pura Vida!
E_


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Eric Shearer said:


> _I will report a live bite because I live in a place where nobody gives a hoot. My male Dutchie bit a guy trying to rob my truck in broad in daylight, downtown Nicoya, Costa Rica.
> The cops showed up after the bite and laughed about it._ _
> 
> 
> ...


Anytime!

I missed Chris McDonald's last trip here a couple of months ago. He a member of this board. I was back in the US for a couple of weeks nursing my brother back from a bicep operation.

Pura Vida!\\/


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I will report a live bite because I live in a place where nobody gives a hoot. My male Dutchie bit a guy trying to rob my truck in broad in daylight, downtown Nicoya, Costa Rica.
> 
> The cops showed up after the bite and laughed about it.
> 
> The crowd that gathered loved it too.:lol:


 
thats effinnn awesome!!!!! I am moving to Costa Rica! What other countries work like that?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I will report a live bite because I live in a place where nobody gives a hoot. My male Dutchie bit a guy trying to rob my truck in broad in daylight, downtown Nicoya, Costa Rica.
> 
> The cops showed up after the bite and laughed about it.
> 
> The crowd that gathered loved it too.:lol:


Correction - I reread my post this morning. The thief was trying to rob something from the bed of the truck, not the truck itself. My dog was crated with the latch just barely attached so he could break out if he wanted to. I intentionally set the latch that way in high crime areas.:-D


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Patrick Salerno said:


> thats effinnn awesome!!!!! I am moving to Costa Rica! What other countries work like that?


I don't know about other countries.

There are virtually no dog regs of any type in CR. There are no dog licenses, no leash laws, no dangerous dog laws, no dangerous breed insurance BS. I don't think they even have a rabies vaccination requirement. I never though about a rabies vac. requirement before but I bet not.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Patrick.
Here in thailand things are much the same,my dog can bite anyone coming onto my property at anytime.
Not many dog laws but many stray dogs,i can not take my dog for a walk anywhere! 
They are trying to put restrictions on feeding the streetdogs and i think their numbers are a bit down compared to five years ago.
Always warm here,great food and friendly people,a lot less crime then my homecountry!
Also not easy to find anyone to help you work a dog.
Being a k9 officer in many countries is considered a priveliged job but here it is looked down upon,different culture i guess.


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

Butch Cappel said:


> Jake, as usual there was little resolve on your question about PP dogs dong live bites.


 Dong bites?! :lol::lol::lol:


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## Hilde Van Durme (Feb 9, 2010)

Patrick Salerno said:


> thats effinnn awesome!!!!! I am moving to Costa Rica! What other countries work like that?


Dominican Republic


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Third world countries often have dogs running around. I get down to Colombia virtually every year and I've seen dogs wandering in the city on their own. I've seen some wait at a crosswalk for the cars to stop and then cross, on their own. Talk about being acclimated, eh?


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Patrick Murray said:


> Third world countries often have dogs running around. I get down to Colombia virtually every year and I've seen dogs wandering in the city on their own. I've seen some wait at a crosswalk for the cars to stop and then cross, on their own. Talk about being acclimated, eh?


Patrick, I was in Medellin over Christmas for my first time. And I agree...I don't think ever seen such 'street savvy' dogs in my life. Some of the ones I saw weren't not strays either. They hit the streets, looking for food (and competing with black vultures) and then headed back home. No dog aggression among them another either. Their traffic skills were amazing;-)


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I know, off topic, but what Candy said reminded me of this:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/628a8500-ff1c-11de-a677-00144feab49a.html

Dogs in Moscow, they have one that rides the tram even.



> They also acted differently. Every so often, you would see one waiting on a metro platform. When the train pulled up, the dog would step in, scramble up to lie on a seat or sit on the floor if the carriage was crowded, and then exit a few stops later. There is even a website dedicated to the metro stray (www.metrodog.ru) on which passengers post photos and video clips taken with their mobile phones, documenting the *savviest of the pack using the public transport system like any other Muscovite.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I know, off topic, but what Candy said reminded me of this:
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/628a8500-ff1c-11de-a677-00144feab49a.html
> 
> Dogs in Moscow, they have one that rides the tram even.


Very cool article Ashley  Interesting study and observations about how they adapted to all kinds of adverse conditions. Thanks for sharing that.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Patrick, I was in Medellin over Christmas for my first time. And I agree...I don't think ever seen such 'street savvy' dogs in my life. Some of the ones I saw weren't not strays either. They hit the streets, looking for food (and competing with black vultures) and then headed back home. No dog aggression among them another either. Their traffic skills were amazing;-)


I totally understand and agree with your statements. They all run loose. The dogs in these areas learn how to handle traffic or they die. You don't see many dead on the side of the roads. 

There doesn't seem to be any a dog aggression either. I thought about that. I can only presume that "pecking order" has been long established in the various neighborhoods


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I totally understand and agree with your statements. They all run loose. The dogs in these areas learn how to handle traffic or they die. You don't see many dead on the side of the roads.
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any a dog aggression either. I thought about that. I can only presume that "pecking order" has been long established in the various neighborhoods


Isn't it amazing Lee?! You have to wonder if mankind is the source of all dog's issues?!  Among themselves they seem to do fine and work things out! Go figure!


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

A lot of truth to that Candy. All the handlers in our club were called the Jerk at the end of the lead... Most people miss the look their dog gives them that says "Are you out of your mind?!"


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Tim Lynam said:


> A lot of truth to that Candy. All the handlers in our club were called the Jerk at the end of the lead... Most people miss the look their dog gives them that says "Are you out of your mind?!"


Good one Tim ;-) I really do agree....and I'll be the first to admit my mistakes with my own dog (s). My perspective is a lot different now.

There are a couple great exercises that really brings it home for the handlers. One is to become the dog on the end of the leash, being jerked around, banged, yelled at and see if your attitude doesn't change. The other is for the handler to wear the blindfold themselves and track their dogs. Puts the word "trust" in a whole new category \\/Dog's get it, humans not so much! 

Hopefully your club's members see things differently now


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## Hilde Van Durme (Feb 9, 2010)

First of all, in the Dominican Republic you see a lot of street dogs. During the day they are mostly alone wandering around searching for food and they know the traffic very well. At night they come together to form packs and then they go on hunt in pack. Then it becomes for us drivers somewhat dangerous because with poor streetlights in a corner of the road, you suddenly see through the lights of your cars some xxx dozen eyes blinking at you in the middle of the street...break! :lol::lol:

Secondly, I never have to pull on the leash of one of my dogs. The first year of their life they walk with me without leash most of the time, why should a pup have a leash on? He is not going very far, safety and nice treats are with me.
When they are 8 or 9 months old I start to train with them but then they are already used to walk next to me.
The only times I pull a leash is with an adult dog of which I know that he/she knows very well the command but refuses to do it and then I am not gentle with them, its a hard pull and mostly one time is enough.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Heck, Candy, I'm not one to talk... I was the decoy. My handling skills wouldn't even begin to touch those in the club. I'd say they are some of the best handlers on the planet. No jokin'!

Everybody starts out green. Watching a beginners obedience class is always good for some laughs! The nice thing about the people who visit this board is, most are in it for the long term. Like us, they'll hopefully admit mistakes and learn to move on. The dog will forgive them if they will forgive themselves, eh?

My old man's favorite saying was "Learn from other people's mistakes, 'cause you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!"

Getting back to the thread... Hey Butch, not many live bites are reported 'cause they just don't happen that often! Realistically, how many dogs have you trained to bite over your long career? Of those, what was it, 87, is a pretty low ratio of live bites to dogs trained to do it. I'm not trying to diminish the value of a good dog, just pointing out another reason besides liability.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Anytime!
> 
> I missed Chris McDonald's last trip here a couple of months ago. He a member of this board. I was back in the US for a couple of weeks nursing my brother back from a bicep operation.
> 
> Pura Vida!\\/


Lee I will be back soon… we will have a good time! I don’t want to hear anything about your brother needing an operation next time. 
Ii know you said it all went well then… how is he now?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Lee I will be back soon… we will have a good time! I don’t want to hear anything about your brother needing an operation next time.
> Ii know you said it all went well then… how is he now?


No sweat,Chris! He is doing fine. If he has any more issues he is on his own. I guilted him out last time over his lousy timing for the operation. Get ready. 

I'm dieing to show you the other part of CR. It's what I consider the "real" CR.\\/


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> No sweat,Chris! He is doing fine. If he has any more issues he is on his own. I guilted him out last time over his lousy timing for the operation. Get ready.
> 
> I'm dieing to show you the other part of CR. It's what I consider the "real" CR.\\/


Are you two going to be running Special Ops in the jungles of CR with those Dutchies?! :razz: 8-[ [-o< There better be tall trees, pictures and videos ;-)~


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Are you two going to be running Special Ops in the jungles of CR with those Dutchies?! :razz: 8-[ [-o< There better be tall trees, pictures and videos ;-)~


If Chris know s how (I don't) to post videos you will have some great videos, I promise. And not just of Dutchies.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Are you two going to be running Special Ops in the jungles of CR with those Dutchies?! :razz: 8-[ [-o< There better be tall trees, pictures and videos ;-)~


What’s a special ops? 
We will spend the whole time talking about dog training at the pool side bar….. that’s good enough. 
Ill post a 18 hour video of each day


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> What’s a special ops?
> We will spend the whole time talking about dog training at the pool side bar….. that’s good enough.
> Ill post a 18 hour video of each day


And I will take care of the other 6 hours with video of Chris sleeping it off.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> And I will take care of the other 6 hours with video of Chris sleeping it off.


 
Something tells me I wont be able to keep up with Lee


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Something tells me I wont be able to keep up with Lee


I've been in training for longer than you, Chris!:-$

Man, is this off topic.


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