# Need suggestions for a new diet for my Corso



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Over the past couple years he has gradually been loosing weight and the condition of his skin and coat has been also going down hill. 

2 years ago he was about 125lbs, with a shiny coat. Right now he is 110, his coat still has shine to it I think but if it does you can't see it because it is covered by a greasy film, he has some dander but not a lot, he has always shed but he is now shedding like mad. You can pull clumps of hair from any where on his body. It's not to the point of him balding or actually loosing hair, he's just shedding tons. 

Over this period he's mostly been on Orijen, all 3 formulas. He was on about 4.5cups per day then when I noticed he was loosing weight I gradually increased the amount. He is currently on 6 cups per day plus wild salmon oil and still loosing weight. He has lost 4lbs since April. His water intake is normal, his energy has remained the same. There are no obvious signs of any thing wrong with him, but he is just looking increasingly drained to me (just physically). 

I did have him on raw for a few months during which the coat had started to look a little better but I just couldn't keep up with it, so he went back on Orijen. He's parasite free, he just had Superchem, CBC, and T4 done on Monay, all came back perfect. 

The vet thinks there is nothing physically wrong with him, and his initial thought is that he is not getting enough calories, possibly due to the fact Orijen is a food with high protein and low carbs. So we want to increase his caloric intake either by feeding much more of the same, or adding carbs, or going on a new food which will give him more calories. Then we'll come back in 6 weeks and check progress. If this is the issue, we should start to see him putting on weight and the coat should start improving.

So I'm looking for suggestions on what other brand of kibble to switch him to, other type of food, any suggestions. One of the suggestions the vet had was to up his Orijen intake and also add pasta or potatoes for added carbs. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that.


This was him 2yrs ago:

















And this is him some 3wks ago after a groom:









He is 4.5yrs old.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Not sure if you can really see what I'm talking about, plus in this pic he has just been groomed, but he looks over all more dull and his skin looks more sulky, he's lost some muscle, and right now in sun light he looks almost like he's a dilute because of that grey greasy film on his coat.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

what was he eating when you got him and was in good condition, i would put him on a food with grain, maybe he needs more carbs


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

I did have him on raw for a few months during which the coat had started to look a little better but I just couldn't keep up with it

I think you answered your own question.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Brian Anderson said:


> I did have him on raw for a few months during which the coat had started to look a little better but I just couldn't keep up with it
> 
> I think you answered your own question.


I would love to put him on raw but I can't keep up with it nor do I have the space or time for it, I'm being realistic. He was eating 6lbs of meat per day, do you know how much space that takes up in a small fridge? It required trips to the store every 2 days just to get his meat, I don't even have time to shop that often for myself. I need non raw suggestions, or at least a diet where he can be partially supplemented with raw but not rely on it.


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

i have fed raw, evo, & TOTW over the years. i have also kept some dogs on the diamond natural extreme athlete the entire time. i saw no difference in the coats, muscle, or overall health of the dogs on the more expensive or raw diets, and the dogs on the EA. it's a high calorie, high fat/protein food, w/no corn, wheat or soy in it. i've switched everyone back to it, and am pleased w/how they look. i definitely recommend it - it's also an easy one to put weight on with, because it is so high calorie. 
you may also want to try redpaw - although i have no experience with it personally...


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> what was he eating when you got him and was in good condition



I have no clue what food he was on when I got him, it was some thing super cheap like Ol'Roy, he was 8mo old and looked like crap. I think I had him on Wellness initially then made the switch to Orijen. Wellness is one of the foods I would consider switching him to.




Tammy St. Louis said:


> i would put him on a food with grain, maybe he needs more carbs


that's what the vet was thinking as well, more carbs


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

kristin tresidder said:


> i have fed raw, evo, & TOTW over the years. i have also kept some dogs on the diamond natural extreme athlete the entire time. i saw no difference in the coats, muscle, or overall health of the dogs on the more expensive or raw diets, and the dogs on the EA. it's a high calorie, high fat/protein food, w/no corn, wheat or soy in it. i've switched everyone back to it, and am pleased w/how they look. i definitely recommend it - it's also an easy one to put weight on with, because it is so high calorie.
> you may also want to try redpaw - although i have no experience with it personally...



Vet mentioned he's seen good results for large breeds on TOTW. I've never heard of Diamond, will look into that!


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## Tammy Cohen (Dec 21, 2008)

I would check him for parasites again. One thing in particular is Giardia. Ask for Giardia Elisa test. Giardia can be a tricky one as you can test for it multiple times and still get negative results on a positive dog. Most people think Giardia will cause noticeable severe illness but that's not always the case. I would look into it. You could put him on a round of panacur or metronidazole just to be safe.
Also, has he been neutered? People assume dogs get fat after castration but again, not always the case. A decline of muscle tone is pretty typical.

FWIW I'm not a fan of the diamond dog food (remember the food recalls that killed all those dogs?) Their regular dry food is total garbage and their natural formulas contain beet pulp (I think?) A big no-no in my opinion. Even if it didn't i wouldn't trust or support a company that makes such horrible food (not to mention their track record for killing dogs-be it slowly through sub-par nutrition or flat out with poison. The latter probably being more humane and that's pretty sad). 
Just my two cents.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Marta Haus said:


> that's what the vet was thinking as well, more carbs


I still wouldn't give him grain outside of maybe rolled oats. Rolled oats are what I gave Sasha when she was lactating. Will he eat an oily fish like herring or the like? For the most part dogs use fats like humans use carbs. I've put more weight on Phin by giving him bacon grease, a little bit of olive oil from time to time and chicken skins. You can buy herring oil by the 3.85L as well. That is a lot of dense calories there for the taking. The cheapest way to buy it is in the sizes for horses. http://www.horseherbs.com/products/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_12 

BTW I thought your Corso looked great on the weekend. I didn't think he was to skinny, a bit ribby but for a working Corso very nice IMO.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

He has been screened for parasites and was on 2 or 3 (can't remember now) rounds of panacur just to be safe a few months ago. His poops are always solid and consistent, no mucousy poops, no runs ever unless I give him some thing run causing. 

My Dutchie had Giardia soon after I got her (after she already had worms) and her only symptom was a very mild runs on and off. If we weren't retesting because of the previous worms don't think I would have thought of it. 



Tammy Cohen said:


> I would check him for parasites again. One thing in particular is Giardia. Ask for Giardia Elisa test. Giardia can be a tricky one as you can test for it multiple times and still get negative results on a positive dog. Most people think Giardia will cause noticeable severe illness but that's not always the case. I would look into it. You could put him on a round of panacur or metronidazole just to be safe.
> Also, has he been neutered? People assume dogs get fat after castration but again, not always the case. A decline of muscle tone is pretty typical.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> BTW I thought your Corso looked great on the weekend. I didn't think he was to skinny, a bit ribby but for a working Corso very nice IMO.


He doesn't look horrible, but the steady weight loss does worry me and believe me he looked much better with a bit more meat on him. He was always lean looking, but you couldn't see all those ribs as much.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> I still wouldn't give him grain outside of maybe rolled oats. Rolled oats are what I gave Sasha when she was lactating. Will he eat an oily fish like herring or the like? For the most part dogs use fats like humans use carbs. I've put more weight on Phin by giving him bacon grease, a little bit of olive oil from time to time and chicken skins. You can buy herring oil by the 3.85L as well. That is a lot of dense calories there for the taking. The cheapest way to buy it is in the sizes for horses. http://www.horseherbs.com/products/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_12


Dogs do more fat oxidation in general than humans (well, some of us, myself included, probably do quite a bit...or not enough :lol, but depending on their metabolism and activity, you don't need to go for real high levels of fat. Like for sprinting, anaerobic activity (greyhound racing, protection sport, agility), they are not doing the activity long enough to switch to fat metabolism because they depleted their glycogen stores. If they were sled dogs and possibly all day herding dogs, that's a bit different.

Some dogs do better on grain. My main dog is one of them both on grain free kibble and on raw. Otherwise he loses weight and gets loose stool. He's doing well currently on Healthwise Chicken Meal and Rice and some occasional raw and the price is very reasonable. They also have Healthwise Active, which is calorie dense and has like 20% fat (which is pretty high), 31% protein (pretty moderately high), and a respectable 5:1 omega 6:3 ratio. You could also take a lower grain food like Arcana, California Natural, Innova, Wellness, etc and mix it half and half with either Orijen or another grain free if you like.

Marta, in your dog's case, I would perhaps also try a dedicated probiotic source such as Culturelle, Fortiflora, or Prostora. Culturelle is the cheapest and you can find it at Wal-Mart or Walgreens.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I'm not sure what to suggest because Orijen is about the only food that keeps weight on my Mali. I switched him to another food because I got a really good deal on a couple of bags and he did fine for the first six weeks and then started to drop weight. It's been a few weeks back on Orijen and he still looks pretty lean, so I feel your pain.

He was raised on Fish because my other dog was allergic to chicken so I didn't feed it. I switched to chicken because it was a bit cheaper, but now I'm wondering if he's having an issue with the protein source because he's still not really gaining weight and he's super itchy. Or maybe Orijen has changed their formula?

Evo is another high cal/low carb option. If you want more carbs, just about any other food has them... Oven Baked out of Quebec was a food that my old dog did well on, but then again, he wasn't really picky as long as it didn't contain chicken.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Actually Leslie now that you've mentioned it, Orijen has changed their formula. This was at the end of 2010. Change was from 70-30 to 80-20 so it contains more meat. I'm just doing some quick reading on this and apparently flaxseed was taken out of the formula and two new sources of meat were added.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

for what its worth my dogs all eat Nutros ultra, 3 meat meals in it, with grain, and i also feed urban wolf, which i cook so i can add it in with the kibble, my dogs all look great have great weight and shinny soft coats, people compliment me all the time on this , 
i have never had a issue with them on this food, i switched one time to before grain and in 5 months my mastiff got pancretitis, i am not totally blaming the food, but ya i am , lol
i switched everyone back and they all look good , 
i had both mals on wellness as puppy and both has soft poop all the time, not the food for them 
Vandal is on totally raw because he always had soft stool on kibble, this works good for him , but its urban wolf still with raw meat instead of cooked,


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

For what Orijen costs, I can feed 3 dogs raw for cheaper. I own a big freezer, though. I buy buffalo for $.84 lb, and beef for $.54 a lb. And bulk Turkey necks etc. Even if you're feeding 6lbs a day, you can feed him for under $100 a month if you can get in touch with a good distributor. Buying meat off the shelf of a grocery chain is just crazy. At 4 cups per day of Orijen, you're probably buying 2 bags a month? Aren't those 40lb bags like $80? For the extra $60 a month you could finance a freezer... Just an idear.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i've read a lot of nutrition threads on which food is best etc. usually with one eye closed but it seems like i read a lot about Orijen in threads with dogs that have nutrition problems......long time ago i wrote and asked em what all the herbs were for and how many had ever been dog tested....no answer
- i don't feed herbals to dogs

by tests and exams i assume you have done a few fecal exams under a scope....they are cheap tests, and sometimes those don't show up easily, and dogs will either cope or not based on their immune system level and afaik, there is no "test" to see how hi or low their immune system is, altho vets speak of the immune system being "compromised"  never heard a good explanation of how a compromised immune
system is verified either. 
- but amoebas in the intestinal tract won't always cause runs and won't be killed by the worm meds

not doing the math here, but is six pounds of raw IAW the suggested guidelines per dog weight ? that would sure seem like overkill when compared to 4.5 cups of any grade kibble, but maybe i read wrong...i always keep coming back to raw and for me it's cheaper than hi qual kibble

general stuff:
and have you tried using a softer natural brush with a lot of daily blowing vice brushing only ?.....every dog i ever owned or groomed improved their skin and coats with daily and frequent blowing with my metroblaster as compared to wire brushes and combs etc ....faster easier and better results imo

lastly, hope you haven't stripped natural coat oil with shampoos, etc. that is another chemical i have eliminated from my dogs for many years now


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Marta Haus said:


> He doesn't look horrible, but the steady weight loss does worry me and believe me he looked much better with a bit more meat on him. He was always lean looking, but you couldn't see all those ribs as much.


Well I've only seen him a few times so I never got to see him in your eyes over time. But like I said, to me he looked like the way a 'real' working Corso should look like. YMMV .. 

Costco has smaller freezers for $179 that could easily hold 50-60lbs of meat. If you ever went with RAW that could be a great option. 

As like Tammy was saying about Vandal. Phin and Sasha do much better on RAW. Phin himself would get soft and runny stools on the high caloric protein kibbles like Orijen or the Acana sport. For the price as Rick pointed out and the pain of the kibble stoolage RAW with that Urban Wolf is a much better option for me. Cheaper as well.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

rick smith said:


> that would sure seem like overkill when compared to 4.5 cups of any grade kibble
> 
> lastly, hope you haven't stripped natural coat oil with shampoos, etc. that is another chemical i have eliminated from my dogs for many years now


No he used to be on 4.5 which is their recommended amount for an active dog his size, then I noticed he was loosing weight and gradually increased that. He is currently eating 6 cups of Orijen with no effect. 

He gets a bath once a year, maybe twice at most. If he's ever dirty the most I'll do is hose him off or just stick him in a crate until the dirt dries and falls off. 

The point about using the savings from buying bulk raw to buy a small fridge makes a lot of sense. You're right if you buy bulk this becomes cheap, the cheapest meat I was able to get were chicken quarters at $1/lb although I managed to shop around and keep things under $3.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

So I did some looking around and had a chat with my local food store guy. It jogged my memory as he suggested switching him to Go Naturals chicken or Evo chicken and turkey which are both very high calorie foods (Go being higher). That's when I remembered that Haus actually used to be on Go after Wellness and before I made the switch to Orijen and he did well on it, when I switched him to Orijen is probably around the time when he started loosing weight. So this is starting to make sense. The Go chicken still high meat content but it also has grains.

Go Naturals Chicken has 570 cal per cup, Evo Turkey and Chicken 537 cal, and the Orijen fish he is on now has 480 cal.

So.. I'm putting him back on the Go, we'll do 6 cups per day to start off which is how much Orijen he's eating now. Hopefully we should start seeing a difference and we can gradually cut back down later once he starts to put on more weight and looks better. He's also getting the wild salmon oil plus an enzymes and probiotics mixture. I hope this works and I have a strong feeling it will. If he doesn't start putting weight on in a few weeks we'll be back to running more test.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Tammy Cohen said:


> I would check him for parasites again. One thing in particular is Giardia. Ask for Giardia Elisa test. Giardia can be a tricky one as you can test for it multiple times and still get negative results on a positive dog. Most people think Giardia will cause noticeable severe illness but that's not always the case. I would look into it. You could put him on a round of panacur or metronidazole just to be safe.
> Also, has he been neutered? People assume dogs get fat after castration but again, not always the case. A decline of muscle tone is pretty typical.
> 
> FWIW I'm not a fan of the diamond dog food (remember the food recalls that killed all those dogs?) Their regular dry food is total garbage and their natural formulas contain beet pulp (I think?) A big no-no in my opinion. Even if it didn't i wouldn't trust or support a company that makes such horrible food (not to mention their track record for killing dogs-be it slowly through sub-par nutrition or flat out with poison. The latter probably being more humane and that's pretty sad).
> Just my two cents.


Yeah! Definitely stay away from Diamond. I tried it about 6mos ago and was disgusted w/ the results. Dogs looked horrible, stool horrible, no energy, etc... I was not happy and I would not recommend it. I am currently feeding Nutro and I love the results. I supplement w/ raw food and other supplements. Try going to the butcher for really cheap raw food. Or any game butchers usually have GREAT deals on raw food (meaty bones, ground meat, etc.) Look into it. Good luck w/ him.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> for what its worth my dogs all eat Nutros ultra, 3 meat meals in it, with grain, and i also feed urban wolf, which i cook so i can add it in with the kibble, my dogs all look great have great weight and shinny soft coats, people compliment me all the time on this ,
> i have never had a issue with them on this food, i switched one time to before grain and in 5 months my mastiff got pancretitis, i am not totally blaming the food, but ya i am , lol
> i switched everyone back and they all look good ,
> i had both mals on wellness as puppy and both has soft poop all the time, not the food for them
> Vandal is on totally raw because he always had soft stool on kibble, this works good for him , but its urban wolf still with raw meat instead of cooked,


I used to feed Urban Wolf and might I add that I was VERY happy w/ the results. Great supplement to a raw diet for my dogs. I'll have to place another order. Good stuff. Oh! And I just started feeding NUTRO. I think I mentioned this already. Still assessing, but thus far I like what I see. Good luck Marta!


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

feed what the dog likes, your wallet can handle, dog looks good, stool good etc etc..

that may not be the best food out there and it may be diamond or ole roy, but if everyone is happy than you found it. If you want to try EVO or expensive dog food go right ahead, but if the dog has the shits all the time is it really that good.

LOL, I am into good dogfood, raw, kibble, etc, however I am a firm beleiver in not all animals do best on the same food as others, it may be bottom of the barrel or best of the best, find your feed.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> LOL, I am into good dogfood, raw, kibble, etc, however I am a firm beleiver in not all animals do best on the same food as others, it may be bottom of the barrel or best of the best, find your feed.


Same here. It's pretty common for me to have more than one dog here and generally they're fed different foods. I say whatever works, go with it.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

I agree w/ above statements. I have 3 dogs and they all do pretty good on what I'm feeding. Then again I do all kinds of stuff like rotate kibble, I add ABADY to fall/winter feed for conditioning and coat building, feed different raw meats (fish/salmon, chicken, beef, venison, and whatever else is on sale), and I also use supplements. The only thing I don't like about the Nutro is it's got A LOT of fiber. I normally don't feed any kibble that has greater than 3.5% fiber in it. On the more positive side I don't feed kibble everyday, so I hope I'm not over doing it w/ the fiber. Dogs do look good on the feed though.

Do some trial and error stuff and see what works for your dog. Good luck and keep us posted on what you finally decided on and how the dog is faring.


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

I've had good luck with the Nature's Variety Instinct line of food. It is grain free, nice quality, and cheaper than Orijen. Nature's Variety also has a grain included line called Prairie.

I've also considered trying a dehydrated dog food line called The Honest Kitchen. They have both grain and grain-free options, it's cheaper than top of the line kibble, and it seems like the sort of food a person could easily supplement with raw as needed/desired.

Good luck.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

He's been doing really well on the Go so far, his coat is even looking much better. 
My other 2 are on Honest Kitchen but they're tiny by comparison, no way I'm putting him on it, it's about $90 per box and doesn't last nearly as much as a big bag of kibble.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I agree on The Honest Kitchen. I feed about one meal a week with Preference with a raw meal, but OMG, it's expensive. I couldn't afford to do it exclusively. I need to take up Connie's suggestion and get farmers market veggie leftovers for their veggie mix.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I agree on The Honest Kitchen. I feed about one meal a week with Preference with a raw meal, but OMG, it's expensive. I couldn't afford to do it exclusively. I need to take up Connie's suggestion and get farmers market veggie leftovers for their veggie mix.



Why Preference? Isn't that the no-meat foundation version meant for allergic dogs who need an exotic (novel) protein added?

I use a meat THK when I use it, and still add RMBs, or I just mix up the THK thin, kinda like a gravy, to add variety.

I don't think I'd pay THK prices for no-meat unless I needed it for a base for some protein allergy.


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