# beef allergy?



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

From http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/help-hives-25728/index2.html#post369871

Zakia posted: _"Cool. Thanks. My ol' lady pit has these trouble some spots right now. I believe she has a beef allergy also. Advantix arrived today and I'm all prepped to use it. I've administered Benedryl which temporarily stops the scratching (of course she's unconscious post administration, so does it really count?). Going to perform this "white sheet" test you speak of and see what I get.I believe she has a beef allergy also."_



Does she have front paw or leg chewing, itchy face, itchy belly, recurring ear infections?

Any GI symptoms, or all skin?




What symptoms or timing make you think beef allergy?


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

She itches all over. Not so much on her belly. she usually gets a large reddened patch on her belly. it's not itchy though, or at least I've never seen her scratch the patch. yes to itchy legs and face. no GI s/s. this all usually occurs when I feed raw beef and/or dog food w/ beef meat and bone meal for too many days in a row or w/ fleas (I assume cuz I can never find them on her). the mali gets s/s also. I'm also associating it with their hormones are all jacked up. they both blow their coats and get all itchy, scratching every two seconds, and allergic. they look horrible (like I'm a bad mommy. :-( )!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Zakia Days said:


> She itches all over. Not so much on her belly. she usually gets a large reddened patch on her belly. it's not itchy though, or at least I've never seen her scratch the patch. yes to itchy legs and face. no GI s/s. this all usually occurs when I feed raw beef and/or dog food w/ beef meat and bone meal for too many days in a row or w/ fleas (I assume cuz I can never find them on her). the mali gets s/s also. I'm also associating it with their hormones are all jacked up. they both blow their coats and get all itchy, scratching every two seconds, and allergic. they look horrible (like I'm a bad mommy. :-( )!



What's s/s?

Two dogs are itchy? This is a big pointer away from food allergy.

Do you understand the white sheet test? Would you do this and tell me what you find?

Is the red belly rash raised plaque or smooth all-over red? Bumpy or smooth? Any peeling places? Like red areas looking peel-y around the edges?

Where on the body is the worst itching/scratching?

Is the belly or armpit skin ever greasy/waxy or slightly odorous? Any paw-odor?

Any skin-darkening where there is hair loss?

Ever had scrapings done?

Is there paw-licking? Is it inflamed between the toes?

Are there ear infections? How do they look inside right now? (Flashlight)

Does the itching interrupt sleep? Does she break skin with scratching?

Are there ever periods of no itching? 





BTW, "they" (two dogs) is a big pointer away from food allergies. Two itchy dogs ... external parasites would be the top suspect. 

Both Ctenocephalides canis (dog fleas, very common in Europe) and Ctenocephalides felis (cat fleas, very common here) _much_ prefer dogs (or cats) to humans. 

Not being bitten yourself, not seeing fleas, and using prevention .... none of this is even close to being a guarantee that this isn't fleas.

Never finding/seeing fleas really means nothing at all. 

Since flea saliva allergy is #1, I'd start a methodical step-by-step to confirm or rule out fleas.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Way ahead of you Connie. As mentioned above, I bought the flea/tick tx already and have already administered it to both dogs. They've had fleas in the past and had similar s/s, I just never saw them. I never see them, so when I see this I treat. No waxy odorous skin. Just lots of itching that at times disturbs the sleep. Hair loss on tips of mals ears w/ dry, flaky skin. Some beginnings of hair loss on pit, but it is never "complete" at the very small patches. No hair loss on belly. The patch appears only where there is no hair on the belly. No where else. If I feed beef while I'm treating for fleas these s/s will appear until a few days after cessation of feed. They begin to subside after about a week. This whole sequence will occur 2 -3 months before heat cycles. The girls flirt w/ the males or have breast enlargement and take care of the stuffed animals instead of chewing them to pieces. And, they blow their coats, itch all over, get the red belly patch, etc., etc. I will perform the test tomorrow a.m. when I'm off work and get back to you. Thanks for your interest and information. Much appreciated.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

"Is there paw-licking? Is it inflamed between the toes?"

Connie, what health issue might the above symptoms indicate? 
It is great reading through posts like these and filing away the ideas for future reference.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Way ahead of you Connie. As mentioned above, I bought the flea/tick tx already and have already administered it to both dogs. They've had fleas in the past and had similar s/s, I just never saw them. I never see them, so when I see this I treat. No waxy odorous skin. Just lots of itching that at times disturbs the sleep. Hair loss on tips of mals ears w/ white, super dry, scales; flaky skin patches where the hair is missing. Some beginnings of hair loss on pit, but it is never "complete" at the very small areas (<1cm I believe wherever they happen to be on her body). No hair loss on belly. The patch appears only where there is no hair on the belly. No where else. Patch is >5cm in diameter and covers the entire bear portion of the belly. If I feed beef while I'm treating for fleas these s/s will appear until a few days after cessation of feed. They begin to subside after about a week. This whole sequence will occur 2 -3 months before heat cycles. The girls flirt w/ the males or have breast enlargement and take care of the stuffed animals instead of chewing them to pieces. And, they blow their coats, itch all over, get the red belly patch, etc., etc. I will perform the test tomorrow a.m. when I'm off work and get back to you. Thanks for your interest and information. Much appreciated.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Ooops. I think I posted the same thing twice. Yup, I did. Apologies.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Gosh, there are a zillion variables going on here. How can you separate them? I've had enough dogs react to beef that I don't feed it. Some have been fine with raw beef and trimmings but didn't tolerate beef liver and never beef kibble. This sounds like stress triggered mange to flea bites to allergies. Then on top of it, you have a chemical systemic poison flea treatment that can have its own issues.

T


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Good job Terresita, connecting the dots. LOL! That's how I feel sometimes. Here's what I know. That I've used the flea tx o/s of all the other reactions to know that that is not the issue. I only use Advantix when natural "potions" are having a lil' trouble getting a foothold. Never consecutively. Or, like now when hair is being lost and they're scratching every two seconds. I also know they react to beef when they are asymptomatic, there's nothing else in the freezer I and don't have $$$ for anything else, (called, being poor) so its eat this or starve. At times its cheap and plentiful, so I stock up. They also get this same syndrome a few months before heat cycle. Out of the blue coats shed and they can experience any one of three "sentiments." Pissed at everything, loving and flirting w/ everything or enlarged leaky breasts trying to mother the stuffed animals and dig dens in the yard. Now unless those cunning little fleas can sense all this and decide to attack ay these moments, I'm stick at assuming its one or all of the three. BTW, Connie. Negative white sheet test. No flea dirt anywhere.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> "Is there paw-licking? Is it inflamed between the toes?"
> 
> Connie, what health issue might the above symptoms indicate?
> It is great reading through posts like these and filing away the ideas for future reference.


http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f25/help-hives-25728/index2.html#post369870

Biggest takeaways for future reference: flea saliva is the #1 allergy for dogs. One exposure can drive a flea-allergic dog crazy, and not just at the site. #2 is inhalant/environmental.

Food allergy is extremely low on the "likely" list, no matter what people (including many GP vets) will say when your dog is itchy.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"If I feed beef while I'm treating for fleas these s/s will appear until a few days after cessation of feed. They begin to subside after about a week."_

A true food allergy cannot be triggered only in the presence of another factor. That is, it cannot be intermittent, depending on some other contributory factor. It will happen every single time there is an exposure to that allergen, period.


A simplified picture of an allergic reaction to, say, beef:

The reaction is an immediate chemical reaction: an IgE response. 

Previous exposure to the allergen has caused the production of allergen-specific antibodies. (Most individuals are not prone to this development, and it has a huge heritable factor.)

The allergen-specific IgE attaches itself to mast cells and to basophils in the blood (“sensitization”). This “pre-process” doesn’t cause an allergic reaction. And this explains why allergies develop on repeated exposure: a new (novel to the individual) food cannot trigger an IgE response because this setup cannot have happened yet.

Now, the allergen (virtually always a protein, whether you think of the offending food as a protein food in general or not) attacks those IgE molecules on the surface of the mast cell or basophil membrane and causes the release of chemicals, like histamine.

As we all know, a dog’s histamine receptors are largely in the skin (where ours are largely in the mucus membranes). 

So allergies to a dog = itch.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Zakia Days said:


> Way ahead of you Connie. As mentioned above, I bought the flea/tick tx already and have already administered it to both dogs. They've had fleas in the past and had similar s/s, I just never saw them. I never see them, so when I see this I treat. No waxy odorous skin. Just lots of itching that at times disturbs the sleep. Hair loss on tips of mals ears w/ dry, flaky skin. Some beginnings of hair loss on pit, but it is never "complete" at the very small patches. No hair loss on belly. The patch appears only where there is no hair on the belly. No where else. If I feed beef while I'm treating for fleas these s/s will appear until a few days after cessation of feed. They begin to subside after about a week. This whole sequence will occur 2 -3 months before heat cycles. The girls flirt w/ the males or have breast enlargement and take care of the stuffed animals instead of chewing them to pieces. And, they blow their coats, itch all over, get the red belly patch, etc., etc. I will perform the test tomorrow a.m. when I'm off work and get back to you. Thanks for your interest and information. Much appreciated.



Where is the itching the worst?

Have scrapings been done?

Is there paw-licking? Is it inflamed between the toes?

Are there ear infections? How do they look inside right now? (Flashlight)


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

What's the source for the beef?


T


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> What's the source for the beef?
> 
> 
> 
> T



Are you thinking intolerance or sensitivity to flavorings, etc.?

(If it's an allergy, of course the source doesn't matter.)


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Are you thinking intolerance or sensitivity to flavorings, etc.?
> 
> (If it's an allergy, of course the source doesn't matter.)


Just curious. Personally, I wouldn't feed it to them. You'd have to eliminate something here.

1. Any symptoms during anestrous? If they have fleas or beef during this time is there an outbreak?
2. If you treat for the fleas and don't give beef, is there an outbreak?

I see this in my mother's dog. Possible flea bite in October==outbreak. Then came in season in January. She's now at the end of the season but progesterone would still be high. But hair is starting to grow back. They did discover she has an allergy to chicken. 2 days after eating chicken, massive hair loss and itching. There are three type of mange. Vet has diagnosed sarcopic but it really looks like the third one. Certain stresses--allergic reactions, season seem to trigger it--or so I think. Oh they put her back on the Zinc and added ACV to her water. Zinc has been used for mange treatment. My mother said the vet gave her an injection also which I think was probably Ivermectin. That helped with the itching but the coat improved after the Zinc and ACV.

T


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