# Better Bonding House Dog vs Kennel Dog



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I'm sure I will get lots of crap over this but I'm of the belief that a house dog is tighter with his owner than a kenneled dog. 

I think a kennel dog can do fine but a dog with you 24/7 is better.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

I think that as well...but the only dogs Ive ever had kenneled were sled dogs, and they could care less about my, or anyones existance, as long as they had grub and were allowed to run. No loyality at all.


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## John Michaels (Oct 15, 2014)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I'm sure I will get lots of crap over this but I'm of the belief that a house dog is tighter with his owner than a kenneled dog.
> 
> I think a kennel dog can do fine but a dog with you 24/7 is better.


Hmmm....I always thought the same but i have been reading/hearing alot in the working dog community that it is really important to keep the dog crated unless it is working/training in order to increase its motivation to work, build frustration/drive, and building a handler centric dog.

Am I misunderstanding this thread? Are you talking about kenneling as in having a dog in a boarding kennel as opposed to having him in the house? Sorry if I’m totally out in the left field here……I’m a noob… L


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I THINK...

depends on what you mean by "better bond"..

and "tighter".. 

depends on the "kenneling and handling routines and scheduling".


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

John Michaels said:


> Hmmm....I always thought the same but i have been reading/hearing alot in the working dog community that it is really important to keep the dog crated unless it is working/training in order to increase its motivation to work, build frustration/drive, and building a handler centric dog.
> 
> Am I misunderstanding this thread? Are you talking about kenneling as in having a dog in a boarding kennel as opposed to having him in the house? Sorry if I’m totally out in the left field here……I’m a noob… L


No John, you were getting it right. I was talking about on premises kenneling compared to a dog sitting by the fireplace waching football with you. 

I'm not doing sport but I can't see where my Dutchies' need to be any more motivated than what they already are. 

The male especially loves to do OB. They both live for a bite especially the bitch who is the most insane dog I ever owned. The male had a live bite in Costa Rica in which the thief drug him right over the back of my pickup truck while hanging onto the crooks arm.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Dog can't protect you from monsters under the bed if he's out in a dog run or locked in a crate in the kitchen. 

After all the fosters I had last year, I find most new dogs bond to me quick enough and there was only one I didn't trust off leash. My feelings for them take longer and I have to admit, I like the snuggly ones the best. ( I love my DS, she seems to like me, but she ain't no cuddler)


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I THINK...
> 
> depends on what you mean by "better bond"..
> 
> ...


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> Dog can't protect you from monsters under the bed if he's out in a dog run or locked in a crate in the kitchen.
> 
> After all the fosters I had last year, I find most new dogs bond to me quick enough and there was only one I didn't trust off leash. My feelings for them take longer and I have to admit, I like the snuggly ones the best. ( I love my DS, she seems to like me, but she ain't no cuddler)


Are you dealing with many monsters under your bed, Leslie? Do they talk to you?☺☺


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

There are always monsters under the bed. They don't speak, they just drool and smack their lips. Next best thing to a tiger for protection is a Dutchie.


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## John Michaels (Oct 15, 2014)

Think we are getting a bit off topic here, and Im really curious to know guys, so whats the consesus? 

What are the pros vs. cons list for haveing your dog crated most of the time as opposed to haveing him be more a part of the family?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

John Michaels said:


> Think we are getting a bit off topic here, and Im really curious to know guys, so whats the consesus?
> 
> What are the pros vs. cons list for haveing your dog crated most of the time as opposed to haveing him be more a part of the family?


I doubt we are going to get a consensus. You can watch as this thread develops. 

I'm 68 years old with multiple dog since I was 12. I know my own opinion but there's others who will feel the opposite.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

My own experience is that there's not a black or white answer to this. There's a lot to consider and factor in. For example, treatment of the dog that's in the home. Is quality training and consistency offered that makes living in the home an understandable way for the dog to exist or does he live in a state of constant chaos, fear, and punishment for breaking rules that change or are unclear, etc.? Is the dog in the run extensively isolated and neglected or does the run simply serve as a place to house the dog when not being worked or otherwise interacted with? 

There are a number of excellent handlers/owners that have the capacity to really work a dog well through a number of short, well orchastrated play/training sessions who also keep their dogs in a kennel environment for one reason or another. Just the same as there are plenty of rule bending, inconsistent, reactive handlers that have dogs in the home 24/7. And of course, there always exists something in between or to further extremes, which could apply to either living situation.

I don't think the simple fact that a dog is kept in a kennel or a house makes an affirmative statement one way or another about what type of bond it may develop from either living arrangement. Besides every dog is different. Some bond easily and willingly with anyone that's able to interact with them in a constructive manner whereas others may be of the character to not bond with any one in particular no matter where or how it's kept.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

I think this is a totally personal decision and I don't think either one is better than the other if you a are a consistent trainer.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

To me 24/7 in a family environment speaks for itself, compared to a few hours, maybe sometimes, per day kenneled. 

I mean common sense says a dog is happiest around his family. A dog is a pack animal. 

Obviously a high stress household would change that opinion!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Naw.

There's no way I'd ever agree to a fairly general statement that a 24/7 "family environment" as being the best for a dog. I've seen plenty of family environments that are just what I said above. Kids running wild, all over the dog, no boundaries, or just the opposite with pristine environments where if the dog shows even the slightest bit of excitement it's yelled at and commanded to go and lay in one particular spot. 

I saw one of my friends dad beat the hell out of a puppy for peeing in the house. Until that day, I always envied this picture of togetherness that they had. Complete family, sit down dinners, disciplined, etc. It wasn't until after that event that I learned that he reguarly knocked those girls around, one of them severe enough to cause lifelong seizures. What I saw him do to that puppy was just a sample of what he was doing to his own kids.

There's a lot of stupid, thoughtless, and cruel people out there for me to ever go on record and say that housing a dog with the family 24/7 is the best case scenario. Who knows, maybe it's my country mentality that's never really left me and I'm the one that needs to get in step. So far, I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise. 

That guy with the Dobe for example in the high rise probably was one of those surface family type people Lee. Behind closed doors something else entirely was going on. Technology is what made him accountable for his actions. The fact that he was wealthy, had the dog in a home, etc. certainly had no bearing on the quality of life it had. The household may not have been chaotic or even "high stress" he could have just been one of those quiet, explosive brutes or a mean drunk that did whatever he did for only reasons he knows.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Naw.
> 
> There's no way I'd ever agree to a fairly general statement that a 24/7 "family environment" as being the best for a dog. I've seen plenty of family environments that are just what I said above. Kids running wild, all over the dog, no boundaries, or just the opposite with pristine environments where if the dog shows even the slightest bit of excitement it's yelled at and commanded to go and lay in one particular spot.
> 
> ...


Wow! We could go into the people who beat kenneled dogs. I think we are speaking in general terms.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

You were, I was simply explaining why I wouldn't agree with that broad statement that you made. It's a given it could go either way, just as I stated in my first post on the topic.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

John Michaels said:


> Think we are getting a bit off topic here, and Im really curious to know guys, so whats the consesus?
> 
> What are the pros vs. cons list for haveing your dog crated most of the time as opposed to haveing him be more a part of the family?


There is no consensus. Here's the secret, John, because you seem to be asking the same question over and over. You have to look at yourself as a handler and your dog as an individual and decide what is going to work for you. There is no special formula of hours crated times minutes training plus play divided by interaction with other dogs minus time spent on the bed that will produce the ultimate working dog. If you want to crate your dog, crate your dog. 

If you ask others, they will tell you *what worked for them. * You can try those things - they may work for you, too. Or not. You decide, or pick a mentor you trust, and do what he/she suggests. 

As for me, I've stated the pros of not crating. I think I have a good bond with my dogs, even the obnoxious, annoying puppy, who is crated when I am work, and has free run to cause chaos and mayhem the rest of the time, though mostly seems to be a good girl.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

My dogs haven't been crated since they were 6 or 9 months old. I'm sorry I just can't remember exactlyrics. The male was different than the female. You have to decide when the right time occurs. 

I'm just a old MOFO common sense trainer. 

If the dogs fuked up I kicked their ass. It wasnt that hard to tell which one blew it. 

I wasn't capable of this shit with my first dogs. It takes a while.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

So what's the verdict, Lee? Are your little candy-stripers going to step up and kick ass for you, or are they going look at you when the shit hits the fan and say, "should have crated us more"? \\/


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

When the shit hits the fan, the stripped one will be used for food or bait for other food I want. The hound is too useful and in ways too numerous to count. Ok… well, maybe that's only funny to me. To anyone that took me seriously relax. I wasn't really serious, but it is good to have a back up plan and that's mine


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> So what's the verdict, Lee? Are your little candy-stripers going to step up and kick ass for you, or are they going look at you when the shit hits the fan and say, "should have crated us more"? \\/


I hate to tell you the candy stripers in my life weren't dogs. ☺☺

Now you went and brought back memories.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hell, I'm even older then Lee :-o and sounds like pretty much some of the same experiences with multiple dogs....and Candy-Stripers8-[ :grin: 

:-k ................ Toss in a a nurse or two also. :twisted:

I've had numerous dogs both in the house and outside dogs. I have never noticed a difference in bonds, how they react to me, etc. To "ME" that's more about time spent with the dogs.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I like my dogs in the house. I only kennel if necessary for short term periods. 

One of the things I like is that I am able to watch and observe my dogs for more time then if they were kenneled. So I can "read" my dogs almost all the time and know what is going through their minds. This is especially important for me on searches. I get to see them when they are working, when they are crittering, and when they are just being a dog. Then when I see that same behavior out of place I can pick it up faster and know what's happening. And the flip side to this coin, is that they learn me as well. A flick of the hand, a crook of the finger, a tilt of my head and I can change their direction, give a correction, or praise. All without saying a word. I think all this close personal time does make for a better partnership.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

i have had a very similar experience with the one Nicole Stark mentioned about the puppy getting totally abused by the owner who also beat his kids--before i ever got my first dog my Mom and i went to dinner at the home of one of her close friends from college. she had married a very accomplished Navy officer and had this gigantic house filled with expensive decor and had two Elementary School-age kids who went away to Boarding School most of the year. they had an adult Black Lab. between dinner and dessert i watched this man kick his dogs down the basement steps--concrete steps--because it tried to beg for the scraps being thrown into the trash can. i burst into tears right there in their kitchen--i was 7 and i remember this vividly even now. i can only imagine that his kids fared pretty similarly in that house-- my Mom's friend didn't bat an eye. this was not a nice place to live and they were not nice people, no matter how polished and affluent they appeared to be.

for the dog inside or outside thing, i am one of those nuts who takes their dog everywhere they go. we are a one-car-family so i walk all over the place and i take my dog with me because we do some OB as we go and we are forever working on her dog aggression. i love being in the company of my dog and pretty much treat her like my second child, all the love and effort and value that entails, plus consistent rules and expectations and the reward of fun for good behavior. i am sort of a freak for this anthropomorphizing of animals but i like my dog more than some of my extended family...OF COURSE SHE LIVES IN THE HOME WITH US. i mean, half of why we got a working line GSD was to keep my daughter and myself safe when my husband was away, and he's away a lot. she takes this task very seriously and i don't think confinement would cause her to work one ounce harder to please me. would it change her level of focus? i dunno--i just know i'd miss her company.


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