# Opinions on this pedigree



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Not that it will matter much seeing as how we already own him but maybe I can get an idea of what he's about from you GSD afficiandos. Just got the pedigree in the mail. Can't find him on the database but did find the sire and dam. The link gives the father's pedigree...Largo Von Der Schiffslache. My boy's name is Don Vom Bullerjahn. I suck at researching these things All I know is that at almost a year old he's doing pretty good and is already a fantasttic tracker.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=555308


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Can't help with info but here is a link to his(?) ped on working-dog.eu http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/1012953/Don-vom-Bullerjahn?new_lan_en


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thank you so much Jennifer (and Mark). That's my Luke for sure. I keep hearing so many stories about faked peds on PSD prospects sold to Americans but there's no denying this one. That's definately him and his eyebrows Some of the local LEOs keep saying he's older than what I've been told because of his current size but he sure dont act older


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

My 2 youngsters are also triple Yoschy. Mine are around 16 months and are complete firecrackers, tons of fun, easy to train, intense focus, lots and lots of drive. I'm happy with them. They are smaller than what I'm used to, but that's no problem for me, I don't require a larger GSD.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Some of working's most regarded dogs for sure. I'd PM Stefan as he has used some of the same dogs and probably can provide personal experience, knowledge of individual dogs. 

T


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> My 2 youngsters are also triple Yoschy..


 See? I have no friggin idea what you're talking about.:razz:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> See? I have no friggin idea what you're talking about.:razz:



Triple Yoschy: Yoschy von der Dollenwiese is known for producing great drive and aggression, he appears in the 3,4 & 5th generation of your pups pedigree.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

I love Yoschy!! would i use Largo?No!!He is a real good looking gsd but that is all.too big,bad movement,he bites like a show dog, he was good promoted but after a while people have asked for movies and the only thing what they have seen so far from this dog is that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9RIXFZ3-kU

decide by yourself.not enough for me and not enough for the other real working dog breeders.

i worked his mom for a while,good drive but real soft, the first person who have try to title her(d.Kalski) have give up because she was tooooo soft , i picked her up there for the breeder and have bring her to a guy in north germany (A.Krone) he titled her in i think 3 month to SchH3 and KKL1. does that mean anyhing. no!!!in germany they do it with every show dog in the same time.

does she have produced something? i do not think so.not in my mind. Her breeder have make a big mistake,he was succesfull with a rented female Connie Koernerplatz, out of this Line have come my Orla and Tyson, after that there was only Scylla,she was out of a Orla daughter.he sold both orla daughters and lost the best foundation he ever had.now he tryed with Leon Staatsmacht to get back into this Line.

What does Schiffslache,Hexeneiche and Schiffslache Aue (all the same Guy only different kennel names) breed since that. Not mutch.he produced more than 500 puppies!!!!how many dogs out of his kennel have really make big puplic interest?2,3,4,5,6, that is still only 1%.

again quantity is not the same like quality


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thanks Stefan. Your post would explain a couple things that I've seen already in this young one. I won't let it influence me on how I continue to train with him because he deserves my best effort but it will weigh heavy on me. He is what he is and if he doesn't cut it I have no qualms in washing him out and starting over again.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> Thanks Stefan. Your post would explain a couple things that I've seen already in this young one. I won't let it influence me on how I continue to train with him because he deserves my best effort but it will weigh heavy on me. He is what he is and if he doesn't cut it I have no qualms in washing him out and starting over again.


Maybe it is better to look at the pedigree after the dog has accomplished your goals. Helps eliminate bias. The parents were great so he is also. The parents were not great so he can't be either.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Howard, from what I hear this type of breeding is known to produce the "do it all" dog (sport or real work). Sure temperament, strong drives and strong aggression. Off course that is just the blue print, whether the individual dog matches it or not is something you will find out by working him.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

*Züchter: Herbert Born
Eigentümer: Harald Morhard 

Harter, triebstarker Rüde mit hervorragender dunkelgrauer Pigmentierung ! Sehr robust und dominant !
Largo ist laut Labor LABOKLIN kein LSTH Gen-Träger und kann damit kein LSTH an seine Nachkommen weitervererben. Genotyp K/K
Originalkörbericht: Körmeister Wilfried Scheld
Großrahmig, kräftig, gehaltvoll, gutes Verhältnis, ausdrucksstark, fester Rücken,etwas betonte Rückenlage, vorne gut, hinten sehr gut gewinkelt, gut pigmentiert, gute Brustverhältnisse, Gänge haben sehr guten Raumgriff.
TSB ausgeprägt; läßt ab.
Largo war am 02.07.2012 in Giessen bei Dr. Tellhelm zum Indentitäts-Röntgen und hat laut Dr. Tellhelm weiterhin eine selten gute Gelenkdarstellung im ED/HD Bereich !!*

Hard, male with a lot of drive and excellent dark grey pigment. Very robust and dominant.
Original Kör report:

Physically strong, substantial dog with good expression, solid back, front good, back very well angled, very good pigment, good chest dimensions, wide reaching gait. TSB pronounced (excellent in protection). The X-rays show (according to Dr. Tellhelm) a seldom good joint construction in elbow and hip range!!

I would honestly be surprised if this dog were not up to your standards.

Physically he is A1. 

Herbert Born is a very well known serious breeder.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> *Züchter: Herbert Born*
> *Eigentümer: Harald Morhard *
> 
> *Harter, triebstarker Rüde mit hervorragender dunkelgrauer Pigmentierung ! Sehr robust und dominant !*
> ...


I assume there is something lost in the translation. What does ' a seldom good joint construction in elbow and hip rane!" mean?

T


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I assume there is something lost in the translation. What does ' a seldom good joint construction in elbow and hip rane!" mean?
> 
> T


it meanss (just guessing)

that the dog has a seldomly seen good rating and panel..








your welcome


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> *Züchter: Herbert Born
> Eigentümer: Harald Morhard
> 
> Harter, triebstarker Rüde mit hervorragender dunkelgrauer Pigmentierung ! Sehr robust und dominant !
> ...



You are right and you believe for sure also in Santa and Freddy Kruger.That is like the insurance comercial in tv.do you believe all what they say in internet.(He is a french model)


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> it meanss (just guessing)
> 
> that the dog has a seldomly seen good rating and panel..
> 
> ...


Sorry - the dog has a seldomly seen good


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Stefan Schaub said:


> You are right and you believe for sure also in Santa and Freddy Kruger.That is like the insurance comercial in tv.do you believe all what they say in internet.(He is a french model)


I only repeated what I read from the official Kör report. 

Herbert Born is a good breeder. This is only by reading a German forum about him and learning about him from a colleague or two.

If you wish to bad mouth him and his dogs o.k., but explain to me / us in plain English your thoughts on this dog without silly references to Santa, etc. It would be far more enlightening.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Sorry - the dog has a seldomly seen good


So, they seldom see good hips? That's a sad comentary.

T


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> So, they seldom see good hips? That's a sad comentary.
> 
> T


That's not how I interpreted that. My impression of what was written is that it was more along the lines of that the two being of equally good constuction may be rare or unusual or perhaps noteworthy if nothing else. Also, there was some assumption on my part that good may possibly fall along the lines of being better than good.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Either way--pretty sad. Many years ago I was into reading koer reports and got over it because you could stack 20 of them in a pile and they all said pretty much the same thing. 


T


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I only repeated what I read from the official Kör report.
> 
> Herbert Born is a good breeder. This is only by reading a German forum about him and learning about him from a colleague or two.
> 
> If you wish to bad mouth him and his dogs o.k., but explain to me / us in plain English your thoughts on this dog without silly references to Santa, etc. It would be far more enlightening.


do you want tell me i do not know what i talk about. also you did not translate the koerbericht you have translate his opinion.i have explain already before what is going on. 

to the X-ray.Tellhelm does not certify the hips when he is doing the identification X-ray. no one cares how good or bad the hips are looking at this point.

you learn from reading and from some of your colleges,why not learn by training a few dogs and breeding some real gsd. get so tired of this nice talking. lets meet for a selection test i bring my males and my females,test and try out so i do it with yours. on paper everything looks nice,but if you breed 500dogs and only a handful makes a word out to the gsd comunity than something is wrong. 

to sad that someone spend a tone of money on great stand pictures but you do not find one movie of his "WORKING GSD BREEDING FEMALES".


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

http://www.working-dog.eu/zucht_ansehen_2.php?dog=1490&wurfplanung=1&new_lan_en

Interesting breed type and yess, very pretty pictures standing. I admit to being a sucker for breed type. The male of this proposed breeding is out of Stefan's Leon and actually when I see this kennel name, I think of Stefan's foundation dogs. However, is the disagreement over for the quantity produced, there are very few good dogs produced? Unfortunately, unless you are in the home country or otherwise up close and personal, you have no ability to know this type of information.

T


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Stefan Schaub said:


> do you want tell me i do not know what i talk about. also you did not translate the koerbericht you have translate his opinion.i have explain already before what is going on.
> 
> to the X-ray.Tellhelm does not certify the hips when he is doing the identification X-ray. no one cares how good or bad the hips are looking at this point.
> 
> ...


 
Why on earth would I want to meet you for a selection test?

I have had three of my dogs evaluated in training with Fritz Biehler, Elmar Mannes and Ronny van den Berg and the outcome was extremely good. 

The articles Herbert Born has written on his website, together with Ursula Zabel of RSV 2000, were extremely interesting regarding the GSD.

Here is his website so that others can make up their own opinions. It's a pity it's all in German but maybe some of you can read it.

Up to now all you have done is criticize without constructive comments. Herbert Born is a successful breeder of GSDs, many of which are service dogs in Germany (border control) (Grenzwacht), Sweden, USA etc. It’s a pity he cannot defend himself here on this forum. I have never met him personally but I abhor the fact of one breeder publically black-mouthing another


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

http://www.von-der-schiffslache.de/


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Why on earth would I want to meet you for a selection test?
> 
> I have had three of my dogs evaluated in training with Fritz Biehler, Elmar Mannes and Ronny van den Berg and the outcome was extremely good.
> 
> ...


because you and your dogs was trained a day or two with some guys it makes you an expert.ok understand.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Stefan Schaub said:


> because you and your dogs was trained a day or two with some guys it makes you an expert.ok understand.


 
If you didnt attack people and explained what you see lacking in the dogs/breeding program, you'd be far more successful in getting your point of view across. 

Second, you're in the USA... Gillian is in Europe. 

As far as successful, I'd like to see some of your dogs being titled in a program other than schH. How about KNPV? There are several breeding programs out there focused in getting GSDs in that venue. 


Regards


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Stefan Schaub said:


> because you and your dogs was trained a day or two with some guys it makes you an expert.ok understand.


"*with some guys*" - have you never heard of Fritz Biehler, Elmar Mannes and Ronnie van den Bergh?? the guys are the experts - I merely learned how good my dogs were from them and how to get the best out of them. Actually trained they were by Swiss and German trainers, one of which, Lance Collins visited at his club in Wohlen (I thought it was Oftringen) but now remember the place.

By the way, Herbert Born has been described by some as a competent breeder who breeds extremely healthy (hips / elbows) dogs as well as breeding dogs who do the job, be it sport or service dog.

You are just discrediting yourself by each post.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Stefan Schaub said:


> I love Yoschy!! would i use Largo?No!!He is a real good looking gsd but that is all.too big,bad movement,he bites like a show dog, he was good promoted but after a while people have asked for movies and the only thing what they have seen so far from this dog is that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9RIXFZ3-kU
> 
> decide by yourself.not enough for me and not enough for the other real working dog breeders.
> 
> ...


 


Tiago Fontes said:


> If you didnt attack people and explained what you see lacking in the dogs/breeding program, you'd be far more successful in getting your point of view across.


How is his original post not explaining what he sees lacking in those dogs and that breeding program? 

Perhaps there is something wrong with the forum and Tiago/Gillian didn't see Stefan's original post? If I was the OP, that is exactly the sort of information I would have been looking for. The OP himself thanked him. 

I chime in because when I have come here looking for information on certain dogs and breeders, Stefan's response is in line with what I hope to find from people with that kind of knowledge. 

Are we now discouraging each other from sharing our opinions/experience?



Howard Knauf said:


> Thanks Stefan. Your post would explain a couple things that I've seen already in this young one. I won't let it influence me on how I continue to train with him because he deserves my best effort but it will weigh heavy on me. He is what he is and if he doesn't cut it I have no qualms in washing him out and starting over again.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Nobody is discouraging information. Whatever Stefan found out about the dog, I am not commenting on. It's up to Howard to comment on his dog.

My beef is about Stefan publically slagging off a well known, successful German breeder who cannot defend himself on this forum, which I find very shabby.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Dave Martin said:


> How is his original post not explaining what he sees lacking in those dogs and that breeding program?
> 
> Perhaps there is something wrong with the forum and Tiago/Gillian didn't see Stefan's original post? If I was the OP, that is exactly the sort of information I would have been looking for. The OP himself thanked him.
> 
> ...


 
I was alluding to his attack on Gillian... More specifically: 

"because you and your dogs was trained a day or two with some guys it makes you an expert.ok understand."


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> "*with some guys*" - have you never heard of Fritz Biehler, Elmar Mannes and Ronnie van den Bergh?? the guys are the experts - I merely learned how good my dogs were from them and how to get the best out of them. Actually trained they were by Swiss and German trainers, one of which, Lance Collins visited at his club in Wohlen (I thought it was Oftringen) but now remember the place.
> 
> By the way, Herbert Born has been described by some as a competent breeder who breeds extremely healthy (hips / elbows) dogs as well as breeding dogs who do the job, be it sport or service dog.
> 
> You are just discrediting yourself by each post.


you really think i care if i discredit myself. all what i say can be proofed.i was the same in germany and i am the same here. the only thing in dogs what matters is to show what you breed and can train. it is nice that you want stand up for someone you not know never talked with or what ever.if you are so in that than explain me fast his success,maybe you should go back to my first post. There was Tyson,Scylla and Brando all out of Connie Line. that are his dogs who have make his name. 

after that??

where do you live in Europe. before i moved to the US i had week for week people from all over Europe at my place for dogs and training.let me know your real name and i tell you tomorrow what you ever have done with a dog that was so successful or what you have breed that was so well known that people remember you.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Tiago Fontes said:


> If you didnt attack people and explained what you see lacking in the dogs/breeding program, you'd be far more successful in getting your point of view across.
> 
> Second, you're in the USA... Gillian is in Europe.
> 
> ...


I know something better.you can come to me,stay a few days,take a suit on and test my dogs. for sure you learn something out of that. i am more than happy to bring you closer to understandand real gsd and normal gsd.normal gsd are good for sport but only real gsd belong in breeding.in all my litters there are many normal gsd,would i breed them?NO.why? because i do not want get calls how shitty the puppies are


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Stefan Schaub said:


> I know something better.you can come to me,stay a few days,take a suit on and test my dogs. for sure you learn something out of that. i am more than happy to bring you closer to understandand real gsd and normal gsd.normal gsd are good for sport but only real gsd belong in breeding.in all my litters there are many normal gsd,would i breed them?NO.why? because i do not want get calls how shitty the puppies are


 
Can you elaborate on the difference between a real GSD and a normal GSD? Character wise...


Thanks


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Can you elaborate on the difference between a real GSD and a normal GSD? Character wise...
> 
> 
> Thanks


Wouldn't normal be what's real?


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

good sozial aggression,never ending drive(real drive),shows his behavior everywhere,do not need warm ups, have still a own mind,does also show the same drive and grip behavior and speed after learning his exercises. speed,body movement all must fit. Tyson Schiffslache was a typ like that, Jucan Peroh, Sid Haus Gremm, Olex de Valsory,Yoschy, Nick and others also.
The point is that now many people say: "My dog does that."
and there is the problem!!!you must see the difference. out of my breed i would only take a handful of males for breeding and the same with females.it is not hard to get a dog for sport but the the really special ones are real rare.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Katie Finlay said:


> Wouldn't normal be what's real?


that would be perfect for everyone.go one youtube and search gsd bite work. you find a lot and a lot does not look real or normal, but that is NORMAL today.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> If you didnt attack people and explained what you see lacking in the dogs/breeding program, you'd be far more successful in getting your point of view across.


The problem is that you have to see (raise/train/breed) a lot of dogs AND know what you are looking at to understand what he's taling about. This is not stuff you learn on chat boards.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Like Dave, I feel that Stefan is one of few breeders willing to discuss dogs & pedigrees in GSDs--something desperately needed. He has the first hand knowledge to back up what he says whether you like the delivery or not. I chalk it up to passion and regard for something and the wilingness to put it on the ine. This is the only way to get a true discussion on GSDs and to keep the true GSD in existence. Consistently, he is not just about tooting his own horn, but will praise other dogs for their strengths. That's the objectivity I look for. Finally, we have someone abe to provide first hand knowledge of dogs historically and currently which is wayyyy more valuable than training or trial Youtube videos. 

I understand how he distinguishes dogs. I work a litter of males now. Potentially, there is one that I would breed to. I say potentially because I won't know the full genetics until he matures but he looks very promising. Sure his brothers can and will title but that is not the deciding factor for me. When I tested him, I said to his breeder--he may be the "real" deal. As Chris said, you have to breed them, train them through maturity and see enough of them to know. 

T


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Finally, we have someone abe to provide first hand knowledge of dogs...


Finally?!?!? There are dozens of registered members on this board that have just as much knowledge as Stefan. The problem is that they no longer post because they don't want to argue with people that are beneath their knowledge level. It's like a PhD arguing with a high school freshman.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Christopher Smith said:


> Finally?!?!? There are dozens of registered members on this board that have just as much knowledge as Stefan. The problem is that they no longer post because they don't want to argue with people that are beneath their knowledge level. It's like a PhD arguing with a high school freshman.


Sure hope that's not the case. These people should realize there are just as many of us on here truly wanting to learn as much as we can about working dogs and getting the best out of our dogs/breedings, now and down the road. 

We could care less whether or not they feel like wasting their time actually arguing with the folks with less knowledge, but again, please understand many of us can tell the difference between the two and are "listening" when they're kind enough to share their thoughts and experiences.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Dave Martin said:


> Sure hope that's not the case. These people should realize there are just as many of us on here truly wanting to learn as much as we can about working dogs and getting the best out of our dogs/breedings, now and down the road.
> 
> We could care less whether or not they feel like wasting their time actually arguing with the folks with less knowledge, but again, please understand many of us can tell the difference between the two and are "listening" when they're kind enough to share their thoughts and experiences.


What he's saying is that it gets old very fast when all of the new comers fall into the German Shepherd games and don't want to hear that Stephanitz may not have been the best guy ever, that genetic obedience isn't real and that there really are very few decent working German Shepherds these days.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> Sure hope that's not the case. These people should realize there are just as many of us on here truly wanting to learn as much as we can about working dogs and getting the best out of our dogs/breedings, now and down the road.
> 
> We could care less whether or not they feel like wasting their time actually arguing with the folks with less knowledge, but again, please understand many of us can tell the difference between the two and are "listening" when they're kind enough to share their thoughts and experiences.


Dave unfortunately I know for fact that that is case. 

In my experience those that are truly interested will get off of the internet and go meet people in real life. Which reminds me, congratulations on the new puppy.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> Dave unfortunately I know for fact that that is case.
> 
> In my experience those that are truly interested will get off of the internet and go meet people in real life. Which reminds me, congratulations on the new puppy.


Chris, I know what you say is true. I've talked to enough people (former but once regular participants on the WDF) that have said basically the exact same thing.

I also know that I live in Alaska and I can't get in a car and drive 10 hours to meet up with someone. I doubt I'd even get out of this state after 10 hours of solid driving. Hell, it often takes me that long typically to reach my first destination point. 

Even still, I have traveled out to meet breeders and see dogs, competitions, and planned to attend a seminar in Canada that fell through. I also worked at soliciting 3 different people to find someone to go out and put that Airdale / Turnipseed matter to rest. I am still glad Dave took me up on the offer and was pleased to see that Ariel accompanied him on that trip.

I found out the hard way that there are a some, for whatever reason, that are unwilling to show you what they know. I can't travel out every time I have a problem or want to learn something new. Well, I can but who do I bring it home to? I guess I could keep dancing with the mop, and hope something eventually materializes, eh? Surely, outside travel is great for my own edification but a number of things require some sort of internal support system to keep fresh and on track long term.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Christopher Smith said:


> Which reminds me, congratulations on the new puppy.


Thanks a lot!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Update,,,,,K9 Luke has been washed out of the program.

After having him for almost 2 months, and training with him for 5 weeks, here is what I know...

He was young to start with. I know it was a crap shoot to start with such a young dog but I saw good potential in Luke during the testing and because I have seen dogs of this age pass the training program without a problem before I knew it could be done.

The good....
Fast and agile
Extremely confident
Really solid nerves
very good food, prey and hunt drive
although it was obvious he had not experienced anything in the outside world previously, he became very confident after even the first exposure to strange places/enviroments.
Extremely social

The not so good...
Low possessiveness
mediocre bite
low aggression
very high threat thresh hold
immature 

My biggest problem? Bonding. The dog just didn't give two sh*ts about me except during feeding time. I spent tons of time working on the bond but it was all for naught. It REALLY hindered the training process. Now, I don't care if the dog doesn't love me but he damn well better come when I call him. He didn't want anything to do with me once he got his reward even if I had another one for him. Really pissed me off to no end. 

Secondly....his high threat thresh hold was causing problems. It was just taking too much time to get him into the proper mindset especially during building work. I could see him starting to get it but it was going to take just too much time....time I don't have.

Lastly....His bite wasn't always full mouth, but he countered very nice but he never came in hard and there wasn't alot of aggression. I was hoping that through training he would get a clue and start coming in harder but it just wasn't happening. Old school line agitation drills brought up the aggression and bite nice but lacking that stimulous he reverted back to his soft ways. 

I absolutely took into account his age, and the main instructor gave me as much latitude as he could but in the end we both agreed that there just wasn't enough time to get this dog prepared for the street. In about 8-12 months I have no doubt that he'll probably be a good candidate for a green handler at a smaller agency but he just didn't fit the bill for us. So he's gone back and I have a 15 month old Mali as his replacement. The Mal has some previous training so we shouldn't be behind the 8 ball in class.


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Stefan Schaub said:


> good sozial aggression,never ending drive(real drive),shows his behavior everywhere,do not need warm ups, have still a own mind,does also show the same drive and grip behavior and speed after learning his exercises. speed,body movement all must fit. Tyson Schiffslache was a typ like that, Jucan Peroh, Sid Haus Gremm, Olex de Valsory,Yoschy, Nick and others also.
> The point is that now many people say: "My dog does that."
> and there is the problem!!!you must see the difference. out of my breed i would only take a handful of males for breeding and the same with females.it is not hard to get a dog for sport but the the really special ones are real rare.


The question is how much of this you can see just on the SCH-field, if the real good dogs are rare today I suppose there are plenty of both breeders and judges that have too low standards or focus on wrong things in the breedings. For example the owner of a stud I think is looking very good in his performance in SCH said besides this dog there very only 2 more( or at least very few) on the BSP 2011 that showed a performance based on genetic qualities. If he´s right I wonder how many of the rest of the dogs that people still breeds to.

Not to uncommon nowadays that things like very fast dogs and very willing to please is rather selected over the more calmer slower type that is less flashy, but does this make it a lesser dog outside the sport? A dog like this may not have the ability for top scores in obedience and can fly into the sleeve from many meters, but is that more important than other qualities like very good trackingskills or not backing away from a threath in real life? Not a superdog maybe and have no clue about his experience but it´s a different type than some of todays SCH-dogs, bad for sport probably but besides that? Not saying a fast and flashy dog is wrong either, as long as there is more to the dog than those qualities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AmDGHj98Lc


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> Update,,,,,K9 Luke has been washed out of the program.
> 
> After having him for almost 2 months, and training with him for 5 weeks, here is what I know...
> 
> ...


Howard,

What do you know of his upbringing?

T


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Stefan Schaub said:


> you really think i care if i discredit myself. all what i say can be proofed.i was the same in germany and i am the same here. the only thing in dogs what matters is to show what you breed and can train. it is nice that you want stand up for someone you not know never talked with or what ever.if you are so in that than explain me fast his success,maybe you should go back to my first post. There was Tyson,Scylla and Brando all out of Connie Line. that are his dogs who have make his name.
> 
> after that??
> 
> where do you live in Europe. before i moved to the US i had week for week people from all over Europe at my place for dogs and training.let me know your real name and i tell you tomorrow what you ever have done with a dog that was so successful or what you have breed that was so well known that people remember you.


My real name is my name on here - is that not so with you?????

BTW I watched Tyson's daughter work at the club I trained at.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> My real name is my name on here - is that not so with you?????
> 
> BTW I watched Tyson's daughter work at the club I trained at.


I have never bred a dog but if I wantef to buy one I would tend to buy one from someone who didn't shout his mouth of like you do.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> My real name is my name on here - is that not so with you?????
> 
> BTW I watched Tyson's daughter work at the club I trained at.


that is great that you watched a Tyson daughter at the club where you trained.lets think........ he must have over 300 daughters worldwide. 

you see it does not make sense to waste my time to argue with you.you can not proof anything what i ask for.there are so many people like you out there who want sound smart but do not have any background. 

btw i really like you and that you argue with me showes me that you must like me or why would you spend so much time with me.i feel a little sad that you really ask if that is my real name.there is only one Stefan Schaub and only one Kennel Staatsmacht. 
only for you!!!when i was young and pretty!!and do not forget to google all the dog names
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2023888/Training

and that ,only that you see i can do also other stuff than helper work and breeding

http://www.youtube.com/user/staatsmacht15?feature=mhee

and when you go on working dog.eu klick BSP2004 than you maybe find me also with all your great names


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Howard,
> 
> What do you know of his upbringing?
> 
> T



Nothing other than what I gleaned from working and living with him. He tested well on the stakeout which held true when he was introduced to the world. His behavior around anything other than a kennel and training field showed that he had never seen all the things that I exposed him to. His confidence grew day by day and once exposed to any enviroment he became a confident in those enviroments the next time around.

It was obvious that the only training he ever had was biting. He was as green as they come. Did I want one that green? No, but the admin put a rush on getting the dog and I have seen young green dogs make it through the school so I gave it a shot. He would have been about 15 months old after the training was done...in comparison, my first dog was 14 months old and he only got 5 weeks in a school. He did great and was a nasty mother. The only thing extra he had over Luke was OB, that's it. Everything else regarding patrol work had to be taught.

Like I said, once he matures I believe he'll be a good dog. He was a great tracker that's for sure! I'm gonna miss that.


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## Joe Agustin (Jan 15, 2013)

pedigree aside.....does your dog work? does he work well? that should be all that matters especially after hes become part of fam already


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