# Ash....7 months



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

First jumping work and some of her first bitework....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6qU5ZAwimo

I am now working on building her mouth since I have not done a lot of bite work with her yet....


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Just my opinion here so bear with me. If it were my pup I would change 2 things,

1. Sit pup between 1-2 feet away from jump, hold toy close to ground on other side and have her jump straight from the sitting position.
2. If she touches the jump say no and do not give reward. Only reward on a clean jump.

For #1 note the exact position she sits, by moving her position a few inches you can find her majic spot where she effortlessly clears. Now sit her at this distance and jump. The biggest advantage of #1 is that the dog jumps up, arches back and lands in a fluid motion. Running start can be added much later after the dog has the basics down pat.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Thanks, that is what I am working on now. That video is of her first jumps ever, so all we wanted was for her to go over it and have FUN with it. You can see the issues she had with it....LOL 

Also, we had done some palisade work earlier....I will let Jeff tell that....not bad at all, she actually did well on it.....

Wish I had it on video....but she did start by jumping it from up close like a little whitetail deer.....totally clearing it.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

if those where her very first jumps ever, I would have made it so low that should couldn't touch the board and just work on the behavior of going over and coming back.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I work on "place" seperate from the jumps with a low jump right now....will eventually put them together.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

She will be fine. That was her first time, and she was happy. Next time we will be marking if she touches and not rewarding.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> She will be fine. That was her first time, and she was happy. Next time we will be marking if she touches and not rewarding.


Sounds good.....wish I would think about having to try to explain what I am doing in training before I post sometimes. LOL


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Not sure who keeps telling you to do that. :-$


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Not sure who keeps telling you to do that. :-$




I actually like posting stuff, even the mistakes. I don't want to post just the stuff that goes right and try to make it look like there are no mistakes. I mean shit, how do people learn without making mistakes. 

I will get some more video....she is now clearing three boards without touching....BUT....I will make sure that she "places" as well so I can show the progress we are making.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I'm not going to make a comment on how you could have done it better, but Holy Crap...could it get any flatter where you live ?? I swear to God when Jeff was bending over with the tug I looked to the horizon and saw his ass


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I'm not going to make a comment on how you could have done it better, but Holy Crap...could it get any flatter where you live ?? I swear to God when Jeff was bending over with the tug I looked to the horizon and saw his ass


Thanks for the Laugh Gerry....


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Carol, did she have a bad experience or something with the jump? The touching can be cleaned up later. That's no biggie. But because of the stutter stepping, I'd probably be inclined to lower the jump height initially to build confidence and quickly raise it back up incrementally.

Or go with my standard plan: Ignore it and see if it goes away. 

Laura


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Mmmm...she kind of had a bad experience when she tried to jump the palisade by herself, she didn't make it, but did not hesitate to do it again....(it was low, but higher than the hurdle at 4 boards)....she likes to try anything so I should have known, but at the time I did not think anything about walking over to it as she was not really paying attention to it. Neither Jeff or I saw it coming when she tried it. 

She is jumping 2 and 3 boards, no touching and no stutter as of yesterday. I am using the tug and not the Jambierre so I think that makes a difference as well.....when we go out tomorrow night I will set up the camera on the tripod so I can post it.


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> She is jumping 2 and 3 boards, no touching and no stutter as of yesterday. I am using the tug and not the Jambierre so I think that makes a difference as well.....when we go out tomorrow night I will set up the camera on the tripod so I can post it.


Cool! Glad to know the stutter has disappeared. The "ignore it" plan works surprisingly well sometimes. 

Laura


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Cool! Glad to know the stutter has disappeared. The "ignore it" plan works surprisingly well sometimes.
> 
> Laura


That and the actual, get out there and train each day routine. I tend to spend most of the time with her......need to get back to balancing with the others....ugh...LOL


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> The "ignore it" plan works surprisingly well sometimes.
> 
> Laura


my Mom used to call it "benign neglect"--and, yes, it can work surprisingly well (at times, lol).

carol--she is SWEET!! wish i could've made it--hopefully next time. gotta get this vehicle crap sorted out.

is Rock teaching her to retrieve house plant leaves for you yet?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

You could also put a spinner board on the top.
Don't the horse folks place a pole at the bottom of the jump the same distance from the jump as the height?
She's obviously athletic but I'm not a big believer in raising height till technique is developed.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> She's obviously athletic but I'm not a big believer in raising height till technique is developed.


Yep, which is why I went back to two and worked on that for a couple days and then added the third. So far, we are clean and she is kicking her back feet out behind her......


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The kick out is nice to see. Not all dogs do it (neither of mine) but it makes for less tipping with the rear feet.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Gotta remember who her father is. She will take the crashes no problem. Just got to make it fun first.

Her mother was jumping 1 meter, 20 centimeters at 8 months, and then some.

The idea is to let her figure out how to jump. No need for all that silly placement shit. : )


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## kevin holford (Apr 11, 2009)

Is that the great pumpkin? LOL


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I don't get it. Is what the great pumpkin ?

Did you get your dog over himself yet ?? Any good punch to the head scenarios lately ??


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I don't get it. Is what the great pumpkin ?


Seriously???? You really don't know what the Great Pumpkin is???


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

WTF does it have to do with Ash jumping ??


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> WTF does it have to do with Ash jumping ??



I'm surprised you can't see the connection [-X


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> WTF does it have to do with Ash jumping ??


Well nothing.....just another thread getting derailed into a bunch of BS.....you know the drill.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Lets have Mikalick tell us a story about how perfect his training is and how perfect his dogs are.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Lets have Mikalick tell us a story about how perfect his training is and how perfect his dogs are.


I would have to charge you $3.99/min and I type slow!

I was joking about the connection to training and the pumpkin, I didn't get it either, then again, I'm dumb that way.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

NO NO NO tell the story. I got the 3.99


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

By the way, Carol has gotten several PMs from those that enjoyed the video, and know what we are doing. Thanks.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Lets have Mikalick tell us a story about how perfect his training is and how perfect his dogs are.



Once upon a time a long time ago, I had a dog that I was ready to forgo.
His eyes were teary but never weary. His coat didn't glisten and he didn't listen. 
So I took him by the scruff to show to show him I was tuff. 
He tried to bite me and scratch me but never whined.
That caused me to think he might be a find.

I trained him with glass in his belly even though his stool looked like jelly. 
He barked smoke and spit fire and due to his training he would never tire.

Looking like a pumpkin in that suit. Big Bad Oehlsen came a posin' 
I had not a choice but sic my dog on that old coot. To which he 
responded without a hosin'

water everywhere, the dog didn't care. He crashed through the hoops
and sent big bad jeff for a loop.

What was this dog that made Jeff piss? It was a dog trained by Chris.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

More for my own learning, but:



Faisal Khan said:


> Just my opinion here so bear with me. If it were my pup I would change 2 things,
> 
> 1. Sit pup between 1-2 feet away from jump, hold toy close to ground on other side and have her jump straight from the sitting position.
> *2. If she touches the jump say no and do not give reward. Only reward on a clean jump.*


That makes sense, as does this:



Bob Scott said:


> You could also put a spinner board on the top.
> Don't the horse folks place a pole at the bottom of the jump the same distance from the jump as the height?
> She's obviously athletic but I'm not a big believer in raising height till technique is developed.


Over time that would end up rewarding poor technique.

However . . .



Carol Boche said:


> *Thanks, that is what I am working on now. That video is of her first jumps ever, so all we wanted was for her to go over it and have FUN with it. You can see the issues she had with it....LOL *
> 
> Also, we had done some palisade work earlier....I will let Jeff tell that....not bad at all, she actually did well on it.....
> 
> Wish I had it on video....but she did start by jumping it from up close like a little whitetail deer.....totally clearing it.


Makes sense. I'm guessing you'll separate the two sooner or later. It might be fun to have her bite going over softer things (stacks of tires, up slides, obstacles, etc.) that might not effect her form in the jumps or cause her any aversion if she has any from hitting the jumps. Not being critical, and it's just one training session you were nice enough to share, just kind of going based on my analysis of what I've seen a/o been told. Feel free to let me know if I'm off, I won't take offense.

The dog looked like she was upbeat and having fun with it though. I like the grabbing with her "hands"; no real science behind why, it just seems to look like dogs want it more, and I personally think it's cool when dogs sort of use every advantage to hold onto the agitator/decoy. She was very spunky on the frustration-then-release-the-leash mini-send. Doesn't seem to be bothered by the clatter-stick or anything going on around her. She looks fun, ended when you could tell she was getting tired but still ended on a high note, bites well and seems to like what you're doing with her.

-Cheers


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

It is hard to explain on the internet how she really is. She is always willing to try whatever I ask her to, and if she fails one time, you can actually see the determination set in her face that she is going to do it. 

She has never shut down or refused anything. And now that we are doing the bitework she is double fun. 

Her confidence and trust is fantastic.

I do appreciate ALL of the thoughts, advice and opinions regarding her though. That stuff only makes me think more during training and gives me insight to things to do if I really need to try something different or tweak something a bit. Thanks everyone.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> Once upon a time a long time ago, I had a dog that I was ready to forgo.
> His eyes were teary but never weary. His coat didn't glisten and he didn't listen.
> So I took him by the scruff to show to show him I was tuff.
> He tried to bite me and scratch me but never whined.
> ...


Too funny....there are SO many names I could replace Jeff's with....I may steal this and put it on my facebook page....LOL :lol::lol:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> Too funny....there are SO many names I could replace Jeff's with....I may steal this and put it on my facebook page....LOL :lol::lol:



it's dumb. I just made it up as I was typing. but thanks!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I said story, not limerick.

Ruby. I like the dogs to gain confidence and have fun. Dogs that won't try a jump, lack confidence. I also want to push them to show them that they can do the height if they try. If it is not perfect, who cares ? Not like we are trialing her next week.

I don't like the horse jumping bs. I did that with Buko, and if you are not where you are supposed to be, and EXACTLY where you are supposed to be, he will **** up the jump. I never did it before, and I will not go back to it. I have seen his belly almost three feet over full heighth, yet he will be just the tiniest bit off, and he will knock the jump. RETARDED.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I said story, not limerick.



You got a story, I just forgot to include a princess and say THE END.

Either way it took me 10 minutes to write so you owe me $40 bucks buddy.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I appreciate you posting vid, even if you end up having to explain to people what you are doing and why and some people like it and some don't and blah blah...seems that is how it goes.

I have been there posting vid myself 

Too bad Jeff thinks SAR is so gay and hates the cold. He would make great quarry for pups and young dogs!!


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I appreciate you posting vid, even if you end up having to explain to people what you are doing and why and some people like it and some don't and blah blah...seems that is how it goes.
> 
> I have been there posting vid myself
> 
> Too bad Jeff thinks SAR is so gay and hates the cold. He would make great quarry for pups and young dogs!!


Thanks Jennifer. I don't mind at all posting, at least it hasn't turned into bashfest.....LOL 

I think you are right about the SAR thing...might have Jeff do some runaways for Ajay and Jesea (even though Jesea is only cadaver, she LOVES to run after people and pounce on them....hee hee)


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Carol Boche said:


> Thanks Jennifer. I don't mind at all posting,


Should have said....I don't mind at all posting (although sometimes it can be frustrating to try to say what I mean when typing it out)....ergh


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ruby. I like the dogs to gain confidence and have fun. Dogs that won't try a jump, lack confidence. I also want to push them to show them that they can do the height if they try. If it is not perfect, who cares ? Not like we are trialing her next week.


Makes sense. If you have a plan and it's working for you, who am I to criticize? I just meant it in more of a general sense and I see why people start from lower and work their way up. Not specifically to Ash, necessarily. And yeah, it's her first time trying this stuff (at least some of it), so I get the idea of just doing stuff for fun and getting their confidence and excitement up for this stuff, as opposed to worrying about losing points in the trial jump.

Also, that's why I ask some of the things I do. It's not to be a _total_ spaz, in cases like now it's at least partially to find out why different people do different things a/o their mindset/rationale for doing things. What they see in specific dogs, or in general, that lead to overall training decisions/trends or specific things different for individual dogs. Even if it's _totally_ different than what I've been taught or seen I am just naturally curious about the different ways people do things, and the why's. I'm not a dog trainer, never going to be, but it's still interesting to me.

So thanks for the explanation.

-Cheers


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I am going to try and get some video of her just running amok too....that way people can see that she is a freak about doing stuff. 
Onto, into, over, under, through, around....it doesn't matter whether I am asking her or she is doing it on her own....if it looks fun or challenging she seems to be drawn to it. She is just a confident, busy girl.


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## kevin holford (Apr 11, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I don't get it. Is what the great pumpkin ?
> 
> Did you get your dog over himself yet ?? Any good punch to the head scenarios lately ??


The great pumkin in Charlie Brown Holloween...

He's changed since you've seen him.... He's getting a little more laid back


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think thats great. He should be a good dog for you if he can get over his stupid shit, which it looks like he is.

Have you gone to Ricks for training ??


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