# breeding female at Logan Haus Kennels



## mike suttle

Here is a video of me working my own dog. She is just a breeding female with no real training, but I like her a lot. She is a great producer as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u3geKKwXaE&feature=youtu.be


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## Austin Porter

Very nice... and mother of my current pup! She definitely passes that motor down to her pups!


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## mike suttle

Yeah Austin, I have had several litters (about 60) and the Rudy X Misty litter was one of the best I've had so far. EVERY puppy in that litter works very good, all of the owners of those pups have told me that theirs is the best puppy they have ever owned. That tells me enough!


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## Chad Spicer

Mike... respect. 
But, no protection with a breeding female? Sounds like a perfectly good way to litter in your pants  
I know that had to hurt just a skosh. Doing that again next week? 
Nice, sound looking dog by the way.


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## mike suttle

Chad Spicer said:


> Mike... respect.
> But, no protection with a breeding female? Sounds like a perfectly good way to litter in your pants
> I know that had to hurt just a skosh. Doing that again next week?
> Nice, sound looking dog by the way.


Thanks Chad,
We test our breeding dogs the same way whether they are titled or have no training at all. Many titled dogs fail our tests. To be honest years ago I only bred titled dogs but then I started seeing much stronger dogs come through that were not titled and I decided to only start breeding based on nerve strength, drive, character, confidence, health, grip, hunt, retrieve, athleticism, stablilty, etc. Regardless of titles.......guess what happened: The quality of our puppies got even better! My current stud dog is not titled either, and he is by far the strongest example of a complete working dog that I have ever had in my kennel, and I can already tell you that in just 2 years he has proven himself to be the best producer I have used so far. 
I will keep doing our breeding selection test the way I am doing it as it has proven to work much better than when I was not considering dogs without titles to use for breeding. 
I will still continue to use titled dogs of course, as long as they can pass our selection tests, but what I test for are purely genetic traits and I can see those in a dog with or without a title or even any training.
I see so many titled dogs that fail nearly every part of our selection testing. 
A few years ago I tested a dog that finished on the podium at the KNPV Championships with the intention of buying him. It only took me about 2 minutes to fail him. That same day when we tested Arco Roosen (also a KNPV national competitor that year), it only took about 2 minutes to know for 100% sure that he was a dog we wanted! Neither dog was tested for anything they had been trained for, we look only at the genetic traits of the dog, not the training, not the titles.
I think for people new to breeding looking at titled dogs is a good place to start, but as your experience grows and your "eye" for a good dog improves you will be able to see the traits that matter most when breeding, and you will know how to select the best dogs based on what matters most to you and your program.


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## Howard Knauf

Chad Spicer said:


> Mike... respect.
> But, no protection with a breeding female? Sounds like a perfectly good way to litter in your pants
> I know that had to hurt just a skosh. Doing that again next week?
> Nice, sound looking dog by the way.


 If you look reeaally close you'll see a very thin arm cuff that Mike is wearing. Not really that much protection but likely puncture proof. She had a mouth full so I'm sure the pressure hurt.


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## Erik Berg

mike suttle said:


> A few years ago I tested a dog that finished on the podium at the KNPV Championships with the intention of buying him. It only took me about 2 minutes to fail him.


What was it that you thought that dog missed and hence failed him?


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## mike suttle

Chad Spicer said:


> Mike... respect.
> But, no protection with a breeding female? Sounds like a perfectly good way to litter in your pants
> I know that had to hurt just a skosh. Doing that again next week?
> Nice, sound looking dog by the way.


I Misunderstood You. I Thought You WerE Talking About No Protection Titles.


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## mike suttle

Erik Berg said:


> What was it that you thought that dog missed and hence failed him?


Drive And Nerve strength


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## Hunter Allred

mike suttle said:


> Drive And Nerve strength


Drive overall, a specific drive, or balanced drive?


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## mike suttle

Howard Knauf said:


> If you look reeaally close you'll see a very thin arm cuff that Mike is wearing. Not really that much protection but likely puncture proof. She had a mouth full so I'm sure the pressure hurt.


Yes, I Have A Leather Guantlet On. I Have Nerve Damage IN That Arm now.


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## mike suttle

Howard Knauf said:


> If you look reeaally close you'll see a very thin arm cuff that Mike is wearing. Not really that much protection but likely puncture proof. She had a mouth full so I'm sure the pressure hurt.


Yes, I Have A Leather Guantlet On. I Have Nerve Damage IN That Arm now.


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## Howard Knauf

mike suttle said:


> Yes, I Have A Leather Guantlet On. I Have Nerve Damage IN That Arm now.


 I wore one of those....once. I like feeling the dog on the bite, it gives you a good read. I've worn many a puppy sleeve on adult dogs but some things are just crazy.


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## Haz Othman

Hey Mike Im using the link to this vid in the Sporty Dog thread on the GSD forum..lol. 

I find it very instructive in what a dog without any "real" aggression but the right nerve and drive is capable of.


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## Chad Spicer

Ah Mike, I follow you now. No visible equipment. There for a moment I thought you had lost your ever lovin' mind. No doubt she still put plenty of pressure on that arm. We have a thin leather hidden sleeve for proofing but I've not tried it out myself yet. I'm sure it fits Jeff better than me anyway ;-)
I couldn't agree with you more as to protection titles. Not that I have a problem with them in the least but it has no bearing on whether I think a dog is good or not. When people bring us dogs to evaluate I don't ask about titles. I don't feel it matters one way or the other. I'm looking at the dog. Not the story of the dog.


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## Michael Murphy

mike suttle said:


> Thanks Chad,
> We test our breeding dogs the same way whether they are titled or have no training at all. Many titled dogs fail our tests. To be honest years ago I only bred titled dogs but then I started seeing much stronger dogs come through that were not titled and I decided to only start breeding based on nerve strength, drive, character, confidence, health, grip, hunt, retrieve, athleticism, stablilty, etc. Regardless of titles.......guess what happened: The quality of our puppies got even better! My current stud dog is not titled either, and he is by far the strongest example of a complete working dog that I have ever had in my kennel, and I can already tell you that in just 2 years he has proven himself to be the best producer I have used so far.
> I will keep doing our breeding selection test the way I am doing it as it has proven to work much better than when I was not considering dogs without titles to use for breeding.
> I will still continue to use titled dogs of course, as long as they can pass our selection tests, but what I test for are purely genetic traits and I can see those in a dog with or without a title or even any training.
> I see so many titled dogs that fail nearly every part of our selection testing.
> A few years ago I tested a dog that finished on the podium at the KNPV Championships with the intention of buying him. It only took me about 2 minutes to fail him. That same day when we tested Arco Roosen (also a KNPV national competitor that year), it only took about 2 minutes to know for 100% sure that he was a dog we wanted! Neither dog was tested for anything they had been trained for, we look only at the genetic traits of the dog, not the training, not the titles.
> I think for people new to breeding looking at titled dogs is a good place to start, but as your experience grows and your "eye" for a good dog improves you will be able to see the traits that matter most when breeding, and you will know how to select the best dogs based on what matters most to you and your program.


Mike i know you look for complete working dogs not just bite work, but would you say your Rudy is the best stud you have had so far as it pertains to only bite work or can you name dogs that produce even better biters but maybe less hunt drive etc


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## Tiago Fontes

Michael Murphy said:


> Mike i know you look for complete working dogs not just bite work, but would you say your Rudy is the best stud you have had so far as it pertains to only bite work or can you name dogs that produce even better biters but maybe less hunt drive etc



Shush... Do as Alice instructed you to.


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## Catherine Gervin

this was super to watch! she just couldn't wait to get ahold of you, could she? doesn't do any harm that she's such a beauty, either/


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## Lisa Radcliffe

mike suttle said:


> Here is a video of me working my own dog. She is just a breeding female with no real training, but I like her a lot. She is a great producer as well.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u3geKKwXaE&feature=youtu.be


Hi Mike, nice video thanks for sharing! could you clarify "no real training" it looks to me like you Q her with your arm and she has a nice calm bite, something I train for and just does not happen on its own with a dog. She is on till choked off and looks trained to me? also of course she knows who you are and the area she is in? I guess I am saying it looks like real training to me! Nice female


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## Brian Anderson

Lisa Radcliffe said:


> Hi Mike, nice video thanks for sharing! could you clarify "no real training" it looks to me like you Q her with your arm and she has a nice calm bite, something I train for and just does not happen on its own with a dog. She is on till choked off and looks trained to me? also of course she knows who you are and the area she is in? I guess I am saying it looks like real training to me! Nice female


I have seen quite a few dogs with a natural calm bite Lisa. They are out there. ( not referring to the one i the vid as I didnt even watch the video).


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## Brian Anderson

Id suggest NOT catching the dog like Suttle just did in the video (sans equipment) . or wind up like me (probably him too) with a permanently disfigured and problematic left arm lol


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## jim stevens

Brian Anderson said:


> I have seen quite a few dogs with a natural calm bite Lisa. They are out there. ( not referring to the one i the vid as I didnt even watch the video).


How do they train a calm bite? Mine is naturally not a nervous biter, but wants to keep lunging in and re-gripping. My first thought was to try to get away while she tries it, so she was rewarded by holding calmly. She's too quick, and never really lets loose, just takes off some pressure, while shoving me in deeper and re-chomping.


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## Brian Anderson

jim stevens said:


> How do they train a calm bite? Mine is naturally not a nervous biter, but wants to keep lunging in and re-gripping. My first thought was to try to get away while she tries it, so she was rewarded by holding calmly. She's too quick, and never really lets loose, just takes off some pressure, while shoving me in deeper and re-chomping.


Jim its just one of those genetic things.. you can teach some dogs to be calm on the bite through repetition and making it a happy place like a lot of people do ,,, but there are dogs that are just naturally calm on the bite ... I have a female out here (not the best bite dog Ive ever seen) that will literally clamp on and is like an alligator. how old is yours? always lunging in and regripping isnt a bad thing LOL


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## Marcel Winter

What is so special ? ,,,, I,ve seen 100,s this kind of dogs

What makes this female a great producer ?


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## jim stevens

Brian Anderson said:


> Jim its just one of those genetic things.. you can teach some dogs to be calm on the bite through repetition and making it a happy place like a lot of people do ,,, but there are dogs that are just naturally calm on the bite ... I have a female out here (not the best bite dog Ive ever seen) that will literally clamp on and is like an alligator. how old is yours? always lunging in and regripping isnt a bad thing LOL


She will be three in a couple of months. I don't consider it that big a deal, I can't even get close to getting away from her, as she's always pushing in deeper, and I know what's going to happen, so it's not like she would let go on a bite. I just thought if someone knew how to fix it I'd give it a try. She does have a full grip, and does nice bitework on a suit, sleeve, or with a muzzle.


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## Lisa Radcliffe

Brian Anderson said:


> I have seen quite a few dogs with a natural calm bite Lisa. They are out there. ( not referring to the one i the vid as I didnt even watch the video).


Brian- have not checked back here in a while I did not mean there are no calm genetic grips, but more so the dog staying on the grip so long. It looks like training to me, thats why I asked for clarification! I am sure there was some kind of training but hey maybe I am wrong and some dogs just come out like that! I think I have a nice Mal but it took some training to bring her calm grip so she would just stay on the bite for extended times-


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## Ben Thompson

Lisa Radcliffe said:


> Brian- have not checked back here in a while I did not mean there are no calm genetic grips, but more so the dog staying on the grip so long. It looks like training to me, thats why I asked for clarification! I am sure there was some kind of training but hey maybe I am wrong and some dogs just come out like that! I think I have a nice Mal but it took some training to bring her calm grip so she would just stay on the bite for extended times-


 Didn't you watch the video of the bitches daughter second time on a bite?


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## Lisa Radcliffe

Ben Thompson said:


> Didn't you watch the video of the bitches daughter second time on a bite?


No, but I watched it now no big deal looks like normal stuff for a promising pup! That kind of full prey bite you can see from 12 week olds too!! my question was about "no real training" for the breeding female! but the tug/sleeve looked scary!! I would say it's seen better days


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## Lisa Radcliffe

Lisa Radcliffe said:


> Brian- have not checked back here in a while I did not mean there are no calm genetic grips, but more so the dog staying on the grip so long. It looks like training to me, thats why I asked for clarification! I am sure there was some kind of training but hey maybe I am wrong and some dogs just come out like that! I think I have a nice Mal but it took some training to bring her calm grip so she would just stay on the bite for extended times-


Guess I should have said "for extended times under pressure"


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## Ben Thompson

Lisa Radcliffe said:


> No, but I watched it now no big deal looks like normal stuff for a promising pup! That kind of full prey bite you can see from 12 week olds too!! my question was about "no real training" for the breeding female! but the tug/sleeve looked scary!! I would say it's seen better days


She doesn't have training she doesn't even have a out command.


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## Lisa Radcliffe

Ben Thompson said:


> She doesn't have training she doesn't even have a out command.


Ok then Great! the "out" would take a bit of training


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## Brian Anderson

Lisa Radcliffe said:


> Brian- have not checked back here in a while I did not mean there are no calm genetic grips, but more so the dog staying on the grip so long. It looks like training to me, thats why I asked for clarification! I am sure there was some kind of training but hey maybe I am wrong and some dogs just come out like that! I think I have a nice Mal but it took some training to bring her calm grip so she would just stay on the bite for extended times-


yep some just come out that way!


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## Christopher Jones

mike suttle said:


> Here is a video of me working my own dog. She is just a breeding female with no real training, but I like her a lot. She is a great producer as well.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u3geKKwXaE&feature=youtu.be


Nice female Mike. I really like her. I also like your preference with drives and character.


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