# Long Sends



## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

At what point does a long send become a waste of time for a PPD? I can't see any situation where my dog will need to be sent on anyone over a distance. If the bad guy is farther than 10 yards or so away from me, he's not a threat and I should not be deploying the dog. Iif anything ever happens where I need to deploy him it'll be close range due to someone coming after me, or perhaps some idiot who decides the barking of 2 huge dogs isn't enough to keep them out of my house. I understand courage test sends with sport dogs, but is there a point to doing sends that are 30-40-50 yards for PPD? How do you maintain decoy safety if you are sending a dog that distance since a lot can happen by the time you get there to gain leash control?


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I just had this conversation the other night with my husband.

The only real benefit we could see was solely as a courage test, and also as on opportunity to practice recall before reaching the decoy.

Of course, playing devil's advocate, my husband did come up with a hairbrained scenario in which an intruder is trying to kidnap our son, and is carrying him off over a distance.


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm picturing the house I grew up in as a kid...I could see a long send from the front yard to the back yard. I couldn't tell ya how long, but yea, it could come into play.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Immedietly. Training a PPD is for your protection, not for the cool sends. Your first job is the training, the second is to protect the dog legally, so the idiot cannot come back and sue, and have your dog put down.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

We train two types of long sends- one is the "wood search" or back of the property search...we yell for the "bad guy" to come out off our property or we will send the dog- of course, our "bad guy" doesn't listen, so we send our dog,for this the dog does not do the bark and hold, they do the found you and bite you, the second thing we do in training for our PPD's...place them at the opposite end of the training field-either placing them in an auto-as if in a parking lot, or position in a stay position- then you as the handler go away from the dog-when you are a good distance away- the handler is attacked -we have the decoy mix it up- sneak out and jump us, or first walk up and start talking to us, before he assaults- the long "send"...is being done, but now the dog coming to defend you, the dog learns how to handle the decoy in this case, after running a long distance-and this is something that can potentially be used in real life. If the threat is away from you, you can't justify sending your dog out away from you to get the "bad guy", but if you train for the long distance bites with the dog coming to your defense-that would be allowed- you are ready..you were in fear for your life...so bye bye bad guy.....and it is a lot of fun to train also. Mo


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Mo I completely understand the attack on handler situation. I do that with my dog now, but from shorter distances, maybe 10 yards or so. Doing them from farther away sounds interesting, I'll have to try that. We also do area searches in the woods with a bite and hold at the end. While it's fun for the dog and handler, I'm not sure how practical that would be, since someone hiding in the woods isn't a direct threat to you.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

PPD- Long sends
Yes there will be times that this must be done with a PPD.

Say you are on your own property or even out somewhere with your dog. From 70 or so yards ( any distance ) Some cracked up crazy or just some mean sob wants to kill you. You have your dog and the bad guy is running at you giving his intent to cause you harm. He also fires at shot at you. Now you have every right to protect your self. There are other things you can do here but for now you have the dog. This dog is to protect you. We all know that a dog trained this way may not come back home with you on any given day. If he dies protecting you then he has done his job. Your only option is to send the dog while you put distance between you and the bad guy and get police help.

Yes there could be times that you would have to send your dog as a PPD.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Long Sends...you mean *Dan Long sends?* :-k 
"So Long" sends? GoodBye...

In karate, katas are patterned training forms designed to train the karate student using skills taught for different locations. One kata is designed for bridge combat, not much chance you will ever fight on a bridge. It's the lesson not the application.

The long send as I see it is a lesson on courage and working away from the handler. Some dogs cannot work unless the handler tells them everything. Other dogs have comfort issues. I see the sends as a means of building mental strength in a dog, like the Schutzhund attack out of the blind. 

Jerry makes a good point here too. It doesn't make any difference if it is 50 yards or 100. Distance away from the handler is the lesson.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If someone is that far away Jerry, then you have alternatives to using a dog. I do not like to do things that would jeapordize my dog.

I do not have absolute faith in our legal system in these situations.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I understand your point Jeff, but IF there is no other course of action the dog needs to have seen this before. I'm all about training for what the dog MAY see. No harm no foul.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

PPDs are for up close and personal protection. If a guy is charging me to do harm then heck yeah I'll send my dog, if the guy is running away trying to get away from me then why would I send my dog. If I own a lot of property and the guy runs off into the woods would I send my dog, hell no. That is when I go into my house to call the cops so they can send thier dog into the woods to find him. Thats what their dogs are for not a PPD. At this point how am I threatened, Im not, its just a guy on my property, can you say lawsuit if your dog bites someone just because they are on your property. Training is training and its fun to do all sorts of different things and its best to have your dog ready for anything, but in real life you must use your head.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

But what if the guy is running to the woods for a gun? If it isn't on him at the time of the crime, doesn't that change the charges??? I would long send IF the need were there and use my funds for one hell of a great lawyer and press on TV and in the paper...How a poor little dog came to his owners' time of need. :mrgreen:


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Thats just it, you wouldn't know if the guy was running to get a gun. Him leaving would be your cue to get the hell out of Dodge and get to safety. If we ever get to trian together Howard as I am running away I will tell you that Im going to get my gun so you'd feel better about sending your dog on me.







And we can take some pics if you'd like for the paper. LOL


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Thanks Jay for the chance to share some photo time! I might have to take you up on that, my dog loves the taste and smell of hushpuppies...#-o Keep training for the bad guys and the good guys will beat a path to your door!


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Thats right. I would like you to send your dogs into our hell house with me. Thats about the most fun I can have. :razz:


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

IMO the Long send is more of a test than for practical use for a PPD. A good example is the KNPV program with sends 100+ yards, this is to test the dogs willingness to work Away from the handler and to evaluate if the dog has the drive and fight to get him/her down there to whatever end.

To add; Jim Engal has written about this several time and I tend to agree with him on this.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

WHAT IF GREEN GORRILLAS PARACHUTE FROM THE SKY?!?!


;-)


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Then I would have to ask what my tea was sweetened with. LOL


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

When I was going thru the UCMJ phase of MP training, someone always had some scenario designed to challenge the instructors explanation of the law. "Well, what if the guy does this?"

The instructors always just responded with, "Well, what if green gorrillas parachute from the sky?"

It just struck me that the thread was kinda headed in that direction.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> "Well, what if green gorrillas parachute from the sky?"


IF you don't practice for the "what-ifs" then what? My guess is that 95% of the folks who train and have PPDs will never use them unless they live in a high crime area.

My guess is that the vast majority of the folks who take martial arts lessons will never use then in the fullness and scope of the training.

My guess is that most folks cannot justify using a long send for most PP applications, unless it were a unique case and then I'd bet most courts will rule in favor of the poor misguided sh*t who breaks into your home and does lots of physical and mental damage.

...Now the what if! If you never train for the thing you may need, you can't complain about the result that is connected with the possible lack of use. And green gorrilas falling from the sky, I'll be rich beyond my wildest dreams if it is caught on video!!!:mrgreen:


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Howard, I agree, and I believe in training the long send.
It's far-fetched that it will ever be used, *BUT* hope for the best, plan for the worst, and always have a back-up for your back-up.


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