# Looking for info on Protection Tournaments



## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Hi All,
I am thinking of trying to put together protection tournament up here in Edmonton next year.

Can anyone who has gone to one of these type of events, give me some feedback about good and bad aspects, judging, rules, dos and don'ts, etc... well really any feedback. I would also like to build into it a Battle of the Breeds and brainstorming ways to score or judge that aspect as well.

Feel free to contact me at:

[email protected]

or 

[email protected]

Thanks!

Tamara McIntosh


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Check into APPDAk9.com We think that the American Protection Patrol Dog Assoc. Is the best form of testing a Protection K9. We also have a section for Patrol Dog testing. This is not an easy venue to pass. If the dogs pass either you can brag on your dog.


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Check into APPDAk9.com We think that the American Protection Patrol Dog Assoc. Is the best form of testing a Protection K9. We also have a section for Patrol Dog testing. This is not an easy venue to pass. If the dogs pass either you can brag on your dog.


Hi Jerry,

Thank you for your post.

I am not looking for a already recognized venue (IE ring, sch, psa, etc). I am looking for information on tournament events, such as Dogstock or Hardest Hitting, etc. A fun compeition that any sport/PP team can compete in, maybe for monetary prizes, etc. A tournament for entertainment rather than recognition.

Tamara McIntosh


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

It's all entertainment anyway you look at it. LOL


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I like the idea about the battle of the breeds  

Let's see, the various PP competitions I've gone to and the things I like
Well defined levels, something from beginners on up to advanced in levels of pressure and skills
Consistent rules and scoring, even better if the rules/scoring can be posted ahead of time
A surprise scenario in each level
Something that takes into account the various skills each group of dogs might need, ie in the beginner level allow for an out/recall or an out/guard with either recall or pick up, since Sch dogs aren't taught an out/recall
A combination of obedience and protection, not just bitework
Decoys who are used to a variety of dogs/venues so they know how to safely catch anything from legs to arms to shoulder biters. 

Things I don't like, trials that don't take the above into account LOL

I'm on the fence with having dogs titled at different levels being required to enter higher levels. Maybe have a beginner level that is for untitled dogs only, but another beginner level that anyone can play in. If the skill set being tested is minimal, who is to say that III dog is really going to outshine that untitled dog or that entry level titled dog.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Kadi, the top paragraph is what APPDA is about. 

We do like to see dogs of all levels start competing in the Entery Level. Good dogs will breeze right through it. It will build a better foundation in the upper levels. There's some crazy things happening up there.

The rules are posted on the website. This is a good sport that is "almost" as close as you can get to the real thing. Safety is at the top of our list for both the dog and decoys and then being as real as we safely can get.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

To host an APPDA trial though I'm assuming there is some sort of requirements in terms of judges, decoys, certification, etc? 

For someone who wants to just host a "fun match" that might be more trouble then they are looking to go through.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Tamara,
I don't know if it would help or not but I would be glad to mail you a K9 PRO SPORTS rule book and copies of our score sheets. The rule book not only has each exercise described but how to judge each exercise. It also breaks down the basic requirements for a decoy, as well as how to figure entry fees, number of prizes or payouts, based on the size of the show and a lot of general information. Many of the local "Tuff dog" trials in the US were started by people that first learned in K9PS trials. 

If you think that could help you as a sort of template to set up your own show, PM your mailing info and I will send it to you along with copies of our score sheets, which I have been told are the best evaluation tool in any dog sport.

As far as any tips from me? After seventeen years doing dog shows around the world I would say this. In recent years, in the US only, there has been a trend of making exercises more complicated and even dramatic. It seems some are just trying to see how hard an exercise it takes to fail every ones dog. 

All those failures might make the judges jobs pretty easy but, I have always felt, the first goal of any dog competition should be having fun with your partner and second, no different from a police Assoc. certification, getting an independent evaluation of your dog and the level of training you are at that day, to accomplish your job in the future. 

The word "Flunked" is not really an in depth evaluation ( that's why people like our score sheets, they are) and it is certainly not a lot of fun. So unless your only available judge is Stevie Wonder leave all the circus theatrics out and use practical, applicable, scenarios that showcase each dogs strengths, and still allow a qualified judge to show the team where they need to improve, that is how you improve.

Either way best of luck with your first show, and if I can help PM or email, [email protected] Good luck!

Butch Cappel
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f30/looking-info-protection-tournaments-11584/www.k9ps.com


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Kadi, APPDA doesn't just give titles to any and every dog that trials. Yes it's fun to pass and not so much fun to DQ. If the dog DQ's or just don't get as high a score as the handler had expected then the handler knows where to work to get the finish that he wants. Trialing with a dog is fun if the dog titles or DQ's. When the dog titles in APPDA it is a legitimate title. APPDA is not easy and anything that you have to work hard to get is well worth having. No one can disagree with the finished product.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> To host an APPDA trial though I'm assuming there is some sort of requirements in terms of judges, decoys, certification, etc?
> 
> For someone who wants to just host a "fun match" that might be more trouble then they are looking to go through.


There are requirements to host an APPDA trial, as there should be. A fun match is just that. Fun, no titles offered. You can hold a fun match without certified evaluators or decoys. Our rules are on our website. Print them off, study them, call me if you have questions and go and have a fun match. That's too easy. You may like what you had fun with and may even want to hold a trial.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Tamara, 
Just noticed in my post to you, some how since I put it up, the link under my name has been changed. Strange?

When posted, it read www.k9ps.com under my signature like all the rest of the posters. Good luck with your project!

_____________
Butch Cappel
www.k9ps.com


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Butch Cappel said:


> Tamara,
> Just noticed in my post to you, some how since I put it up, the link under my name has been changed. Strange?
> 
> When posted, it read www.k9ps.com under my signature like all the rest of the posters. Good luck with your project!
> ...


It is not possible for anyone to change your post except under the following conditions: You give your password to someone and they log in as you; or you post and someone else "quotes" you and makes changes in the quoted part.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I like the idea about the battle of the breeds
> 
> Let's see, the various PP competitions I've gone to and the things I like
> Well defined levels, something from beginners on up to advanced in levels of pressure and skills
> ...


Sorry can't I don't deal well with the unknowing or surprises I'm a Schutzhund guy =;


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

In APPDA It's a surprise for the dog not for the handler. Silly LOL. Just think if it ever really happens on the street it'll be a surprise to you both. At least one of you need to be prepaired.


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## Wendy Schmitt (Apr 29, 2009)

Tammy,
Here is a general overview on DogStock's Tourney..which is always fun...specialy when you win like Jersey and I did this year :lol: :lol:

It is based on a SchH protection routine you can go up a level if you would like but can't go down. If you want to enter as practice you can use a collar for correction, but are out of the money. Did I say Money??? thats right a cool $100 for just going out and having fun..but mostly it is about bragging rights. Incorperated into the competition is a "fastest long bite" which is measured using a radar gun. The last few years the females seem to get it as their little bodies come smokin down the field. It is not the entry speed but just total over fastest speed hit...although entry speed would be fun too.

 It takes place on the Sat. night of a weekend of mass training, I think over 75 dogs showed up over the weekend to train.
Personally I think the purse should be up to a least $250 if not more like $500 and the entries would be larger. Still loads of fun.

Wendy


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Wendy Schmitt said:


> Tammy,
> Here is a general overview on DogStock's Tourney..which is always fun...specialy when you win like Jersey and I did this year :lol: :lol:
> 
> It is based on a SchH protection routine you can go up a level if you would like but can't go down. If you want to enter as practice you can use a collar for correction, but are out of the money. Did I say Money??? thats right a cool $100 for just going out and having fun..but mostly it is about bragging rights. Incorperated into the competition is a "fastest long bite" which is measured using a radar gun. The last few years the females seem to get it as their little bodies come smokin down the field. It is not the entry speed but just total over fastest speed hit...although entry speed would be fun too.
> ...


Thanks so much Wendy and Kadi!!

What are entry fees usually?

Tamara McIntosh


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Entry fees have varied. Some of the PP tournaments I've done had smaller fees, but there were more things to enter. IE 1 fee for obedience, 1 for a protection routine, 1 for hardest hitting, etc. Others had a larger fee but you did everything (obed and protection). For these it was in the 20-50 range. I've seen fees as high as 75 but in those cases there was money being given back to the competitors for first place wins.

One trial I enjoyed was a pay per scenario thing. I think it was 5 bucks per scenario and the money for each scenario was split between the club, the first place winner and the decoy.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Wendy Schmitt said:


> Tammy,
> Here is a general overview on DogStock's Tourney..which is always fun...specialy when you win like Jersey and I did this year :lol: :lol:
> 
> It is based on a SchH protection routine you can go up a level if you would like but can't go down. If you want to enter as practice you can use a collar for correction, but are out of the money. Did I say Money??? thats right a cool $100 for just going out and having fun..but mostly it is about bragging rights. Incorperated into the competition is a "fastest long bite" which is measured using a radar gun. The last few years the females seem to get it as their little bodies come smokin down the field. It is not the entry speed but just total over fastest speed hit...although entry speed would be fun too.
> ...


Who was catching the dogs?


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## Wendy Schmitt (Apr 29, 2009)

Dogstock is a mass gathering of helpers. They sign their name up on a board and then you write your name under it if you want them to work your dog. It is a great way to get your dog on a strange but safe helper. Some of the best helpers/ trainers in the country are there ex: David Delassega, Jose lopez, Martin Vollrath, John Riboni, Rob Dunn, Gary Parks, Joel Monroe, Patrick Davis, and Shane Garehy to name a few. It is held in Northern California, but we get people that came from all over Cali, Oregon, Canada and Arizona. Just non stop training, BBQ and drinking! 
We also have a huge raffel with loads of great stuff.

Wendy Schmitt
http://www.landgrafk9.com


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