# 4 yo Belgian Malinois patroldog needs handler immediately



## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Please see ad in for sale section. This dog has been working for 2 yrs already and is a dual purpose canine. Petra who breeds this line now has this dog and will be working with him until a suitable place is found. The dog is in Finland and is available for basically the cost of health papers, XL shipping crate and airfare which will run about $3500 US. Would also make an excellent stud prospect. Video and photos available of this dog and littermates.. please contact Petra for more info. Picture is top in left hand column of this forum. Gorgeous tough dog.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Laney Rein said:


> Please see ad in for sale section. This dog has been working for 2 yrs already and is a dual purpose canine. Petra who breeds this line now has this dog and will be working with him until a suitable place is found. The dog is in Finland and is available for basically the cost of health papers, XL shipping crate and airfare which will run about $3500 US. Would also make an excellent stud prospect. Video and photos available of this dog and littermates.. please contact Petra for more info. Picture is top in left hand column of this forum. Gorgeous tough dog.


Where did you get the price, round about figure or dod u actually call, if so how is the break down.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

His page says they are going to kill him if they don't quickly place him into a new home?? It says he's a Gast son?


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Harry I have been in direct contact with Petra and she put me in touch with Air Finland who would do everything and pay the vet, provide the crate and ship the dog since I would not plan on going to Finland. I CAN pm you all the info I have if you ant to look into it.


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Yes, Erica, altho Petra now has possession of the dog - so it is no longer with the police dept. Less likely to be put down in any immediate time frame but she would like to find a place for him. She has spoken with his trainer/decoy of 2.5 years and says the dog is not as "hard" as the description listed altho he is not a dog you would let run loose at a park. She has 3 generations of this breeding. One of his littermates is also a policedog. I have been in contact with the air cargo in Finland for shipping costs which were into Phoenix, AZ so it will differ with different airports - but this was inclusive of all costs $2550 EUR which translates to approx $3500 US. I am just thinking a proven dog like this should have a place somewhere and being people pay up to $7000 for green dogs. Maybe Mike would like him in his breeding program?


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks for the extra info. Will try and get the word out to more people...




Laney Rein said:


> Yes, Erica, altho Petra now has possession of the dog - so it is no longer with the police dept. Less likely to be put down in any immediate time frame but she would like to find a place for him. She has spoken with his trainer/decoy of 2.5 years and says the dog is not as "hard" as the description listed altho he is not a dog you would let run loose at a park. She has 3 generations of this breeding. One of his littermates is also a policedog. I have been in contact with the air cargo in Finland for shipping costs which were into Phoenix, AZ so it will differ with different airports - but this was inclusive of all costs $2550 EUR which translates to approx $3500 US. I am just thinking a proven dog like this should have a place somewhere and being people pay up to $7000 for green dogs. Maybe Mike would like him in his breeding program?


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Why come to the USA ? Aren't there other PD's in Finland????? Why isn't the dog still working in it's current PD ?


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

read the ad, Al. Officer retiring, no other officers needing dog, dog needs time to bond, they don't want to waste time. Can go anywhere, doesn't have to be US but Petra placed ad here, I'm working to help her.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Have you contacted Mike Suttle at Logan Haus, if he is not interested, he knows many people looking for great dogs- also they travel abroad so often,they may be able to bring the dog back with them, rather than ship ??? just a thought


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Erica Boling said:


> His page says they are going to kill him if they don't quickly place him into a new home?? It says he's a Gast son?


Thats correct hes a A'Tim grandson in which he is a true son of Gast, I have talked with Martine and also the breeder in Finland that uses Gast for a Stud. Dog is out of great genetics. I myself am trying how to figure out on trying to get this dog into my hands or one of the other handlers that I work with that can handle this dog.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Al Curbow said:


> Why come to the USA ? Aren't there other PD's in Finland????? Why isn't the dog still working in it's current PD ?


Its their in the description Al,hes retiring and the dog can be a little hard at times and needs a handler that knows how to make friends and bond a little before trying to break it off in the dog, in which the handler that tried that got it broke of in him instead, serves the handler right, kudos to the dog in my eyes. Thats long story short to why the finland police center has gotten rid of him, because one they don't want to put the time in and also there all scared of him according to his breeder in Finland.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

I will be bringing papi to the usa, i have talked to petra and i will be making arragments to get him to me early next week,,


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

i started considering this last week had contact with petra few times over the past week and he has gone out of his way to make sure that papi had a chance to continue on with his life,. so papi will come to the states and enjoy the hot weather of florida , talk about a climate change

frankie


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Frankie. Where in Florida are you?


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

Just so there is no crazy rumors, the 2nd handler and papi were only toghter a few days, and had a little issue over the ball and a bite happend,( reminds me of racky huh moe) the police center in finland doesnt have time for papi to bond with another handler as they are pushing out over 200 k9 handlers thoughout finland .so they can just assign this handler a new dog, yes he comes from great stock and his momma saw some great videos on her, well he will come to usa, and i have the abiltiy to give him time to bond, since i stil have a few months before i have to replace rocco as my work dog, so i will everyone know if they care to know how he is in few months after the bonding period., im glad i was able to help save him from being put down, im also glad he was around to help me replace rocco, and petra has been a huge help answering my many questions on papi, this will be a good thing i believe for both papi and myself.

frankie


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

Howard i am in West Palm Beach Florida
www.precisionk9inc.com


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

FRANKIE COWEN said:


> Howard i am in West Palm Beach Florida
> www.precisionk9inc.com


 Thanks. Keep us posted. Looks like you'll do Papi right.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

thanks howard all i can do is try
frankie
www.precisionk9inc.com


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Glad it worked out that way frankie, hope he works well for you.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

thanks drew i also hope it works out well for me as well as for him.in this new journey.


frankie


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kudos for your effort!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I tell you what Frankie, I will give you 800 for the dog, otherwise he will have to be put down. LOL


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

FRANKIE COWEN said:


> I will be bringing papi to the usa, i have talked to petra and i will be making arragments to get him to me early next week,,


 
FRANKIE - I am so glad I started this thread. No one had even looked at the ad or had contacted Petra. I thought the dog was too well trained, too well bred and to gorgeous to not be usable in some capacity. Please let me know when you get him and how he does. I will be so anxious to hear! Bless you!


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Its good that this ends well. I hope he works well for you. 
Also it was good of the Breeder and Martine to push for this dog to find another home. Thats a far better result than the alternative.
Nice work all round.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

So glad to read thjis!
Thanks Frankie for giving him a chance! I would appreciate if you would keep me posted about him.

I have never seen the dog in real life, so it's impossible for me to judge him, but from what I heard he sure is worth a try.
What happened with the second handler, well I think it's pretty stupid to try to do some training with a civil dog if you only have him for a few days. The guy got bitten pretty seriously and wham, suddenly the dog is called a monster...
Gave Petra some tips on how to handle a civil dog that doesn't know you and up to now it's going fine.
The dog is clear in the head so with the right handling I don't see many problems.

A'Tim and Gast were very civil dogs too but they were very devoted to their own family. Once they accepted you, you could completely trust them. The dog's mother, Pois Kottoo Elsa, was an exceptional female too. Very stable and strong character.

Good luck with him!


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

martine i will keep u informed , im glad i was able to get him . he will be my personal k9 security dog and live with me, . my current security dog is 11 years old and its time for him to retire so i have few months to learn papi and him to trust me, then me and him can spend the nights keeping things safe


frankie


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I hope it works out, but it begs asking a couple of questions. I guess it's just my suspicious mind. The Finland police don't have time for the dog to bond. So where do their trained dogs come from. Do they buy them all trained, give them to a handler and expect him to work in a few days? You have a trained dual purpose 4 year old dog. Surly the extended bonding time they feel is needed would be less than training a dual purpose dog that is what, 1 maybe 2 years younger? Just seems there is more to it than what we read. Just seems unusual for departments to virtually give away good, already trained dogs, when they need 200 hundred of them. 

DFrost


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

david 
i dont know finland program 100 only what i been told i do know from what i been told that there k9 program to get handler and dog on the street takes alot longer then it does in the usa
sometime later today i can only post what i been told by the police center in finland i talked to them last week while they had papi, this was not done fast with me i talked to the police center in finland ( best i could i dont speak finish) i have communcated with petra, i been looking at this for the past week to see if this would be a good fit for both me and papi, cause if i take a dog for me i owe it to the dog to give my full effort, not to just TRY , this is going to be a commitment from me to papi, so i did not just jump in to this without taking my time getting as many questions as i could answed, and as much as petra could answer, i do have to say petra has been great dealing with my questions finding out the answers he could . 


frankie


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## Richard Rutt (May 14, 2009)

Good Job Frankie! This should be a good move for you and the Dog. Good luck.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks rick looks like things going well for you also . very glad do know for fact you put alot of time and other things in to it, 


frankie c


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Nice Frankie, Congrats on getting him. I will be in touch, I was myself trying to get this boy saved and to the USA, either way the dog is safe and in good hands and thats all that mattersl, All in all a great thing, I guess now I can put more attention into trying to get back one of my old KNPV boys due to his handler being sent cross seas that needs to be worked out before the second week of July.


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## Petra StrUbing (Dec 17, 2009)

Thank you all of you for big help !! Thank you Martine ! You are very special. You know we all are doing this just because passion of dogs , not for money.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Laney Rein said:


> FRANKIE - I am so glad I started this thread. No one had even looked at the ad or had contacted Petra. I thought the dog was too well trained, too well bred and to gorgeous to not be usable in some capacity. Please let me know when you get him and how he does. I will be so anxious to hear! Bless you!


 I looked at the ad a couple of times. Unfortunately there wasn't a handler in my area capable of working this dog so I didn't look any further. I hate to see such a good one get destroyed so it's nice to see someone step up and take him on.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

Thank you petra for allowing me to get papi. Martine i will be more then happy to keep you informed on papi, all is well and good , and i will be gettiing papi shipped in to me after the weekend is over, 
Everything was well and good expect i got accused today of being unethical by private emails from members of this board, . cause on my webpage its says i have sold dogs for sale, wow i been in dogs 20 years and sold some dogs over the years SO WHAT . Shit i think a few people on this board have a few of the ones i sold years ago, and guess what i may sell a dog here and there again some day . and if i was selling a dog it wouldnt be one like papi to seems to strong to put in just anybodys hands AND HE IS FOR ME PERSONALY . My last dog i had that was dominant dangerous dog was my ph1 kanjer. Got him the same way Tami Mcleod new the some one who had him He was too hard for others to handle dangerous to the public and i believe bit a few people before i got him . Guess what he was everything they said he was, he died of old age in my care,At the age of 11, Same age rocco is now. and im hoping papi and me bond and he lives a ripe old age as my personal dog also like the others have

MY website has also not been updated in like 3 years. (process of buildning new one anyway) 

and now im accussed of taking papi and resealling him , and this was from a person whom doesnt even know me or the conversations i had with petra. KINDA MESSED UP YOU DO SOMETHING GOOD THAT HELPS OUT THE DOG AND THE PERSON GETTING THEM AND THEN SOMEONE HAS TO GO BLAH BLAH BLAH.from someone who doesnt even know you, 

i have a need for papi . Papi needed a good place and i can provide that . So just incase anyone else needs to know im getting him for me unless he eats me lol and so u can see my website its 
www.precisionk9inc.com 

so sick and tired of people accusing people of shit in a indirect way, mind you business if you dont know facts.

if ANYONE else from the peanut gallery wants to talk with out knowing facts just ask i dont lie nor do i do anything dishonest, AND WHY CANT PEOPLE MIND THERE OWN BUISNESS. DAMM I CANT BELIEVE THERE IS EVEN DRAMA TRYING TO HELP A DOG ARGHH PEOPLE GOT ISSUES

looking forward to getting papi


frankie


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

And case the peanut gallery is looking , i havent sold a dog in few years cause i was busy competing, and most tthe dogs i sold were ones who couldnt get me back to the poduim and they were dog i bought they didnt life up to my standards to get me back on top and i sold them , so what what am i supposed to do collect them.


Damm damm damm . To be accused of doing funny shit by someone who wasnt even involved in me getting papi really pisses me off, good dog strong dog going to someone who has had strong dogs over the years ,so knows how to handle them in a way that dog can trust , who is accomplished trainer and has a need for a strong dog , and instead of being happy they get in my buisness and accuse me of some funny shit all cause on page in my website riducallas


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Frankie....tell em to pound sand and piss up a rope.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

I hear you howard
i know your right i should but after being up all night working with the old man , watching him not be as crisp as he used to be , being 11 years old and sitting wiith him in the dark knowing his retirement is coming and knowing its time to move to the next one was emotional , and then peson ( im not going to embarress them and say there name but has many posts on her ) started accusing me of alterer motives i just got pissed, 

i have said what i had to say and look forward to not getting another bite from my own dog lol

frankie


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> Frankie....tell em to pound sand and piss up a rope.


 
howard what is first pissing up the rope then pounding the sand?? of pounding the sand then pissing up the rope?? That rope thing sounds diffucult lol


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

FRANKIE COWEN said:


> howard what is first pissing up the rope then pounding the sand?? of pounding the sand then pissing up the rope?? That rope thing sounds diffucult lol


 Try each one separately, then together using both hands. =D>


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

hopefully he works 
not a dog to sell as a petdog 
by describing and his age iam sure its not a done deal 
many dogsfrom these lines have very thin nerves that will also be the case whith him 
thats the reason they must bond first whith their handlers 
than their confidence comes back and you can see what hes made off 
greetings gerben


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

Frankie i would not worry about those internet wanna be,s. anyone that knows you and how you are with dogs would not talk that way ,you know as well as i you have a great kennels and treat dogs like your kids as me and mo does also ,so if anything we can do to help with papi let us now .he will love it at your place.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

kamphuis gerben said:


> hopefully he works
> not a dog to sell as a petdog
> by describing and his age iam sure its not a done deal
> many dogsfrom these lines have very thin nerves that will also be the case whith him
> ...


 That's interesting to hear. If it's thin nerves then how will his confidence after bonding hide that? At some point his genetics will expose him if he is truly not a solid dog.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

Thank you keith . atually the kennel was redone. interior are wooden floors now,\\/ i used allure flooring waterproof and much easier to clean, i love it and in next few months going to try redo the exterior thinking about going from the welded panels to cbs, since i only have rocco in there now and then papi be much easier to clean out each day. and not have to spray out the empty ones, 

ill send you a pic sometime . maybe you guys do that for the older ones,


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

kamphuis gerben said:


> hopefully he works
> not a dog to sell as a petdog
> by describing and his age iam sure its not a done deal
> *many dogsfrom these lines have very thin nerves* that will also be the case whith him
> ...


What is the reason you are saying this? Which dogs are you talking about?


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Well I'm happy for you Frankie, good talking with ya earlier on the phone, hopely next time I am down that we'll hook up and u can see Apache and I can see Papi, dam can't believe you beat me to him LOL, its alright one of these days we'll have to get together and play, we love plam beach and clematis street. \\/


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

harry 

yes it was also great to talk to you today also i would love to hook up next time your in this area, and yes would love to see " pach" again , 


frankie


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

sorry about that thin nerve part what i ment was that these dogs are on a thin line between social and not they need to bond first whith a handler than its time to show how they are 
greetings gerben


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

kamphuis gerben said:


> sorry about that thin nerve part what i ment was that these dogs are on a thin line between social and not they need to bond first whith a handler than its time to show how they are
> greetings gerben


 Gotcha. That makes perfect sense.

Howard


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

kamphuis gerben said:


> sorry about that thin nerve part what i ment was that these dogs are on a thin line between social and not they need to bond first whith a handler than its time to show how they are
> greetings gerben


just wondering...It does come up here quite often, and some people do think that dogs that may not be all that social, must have thin nerves...that there is a major relationship between a dog being social and having strong nerves....

Given the way that was worded...

Do you think this to be true?


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

jody my last dog kanjer , was not social AT ALL not one bit, and he had nerves of steel, he was just one nasty sob when it came to people, had no problem working him in training had no issue controling him to a point being smart as well as proactive carefull, so i personally believer dogs can be non social and not have one bit of nerve issue, didnt say he didnt have a charaghter flae being so damm nasty , but he sure didnt have a nerve issue my opion of cours

frankie


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

FRANKIE COWEN said:


> jody my last dog kanjer , was not social AT ALL not one bit, and he had nerves of steel, he was just one nasty sob when it came to people, had no problem working him in training had no issue controling him to a point being smart as well as proactive carefull, so i personally believer dogs can be non social and not have one bit of nerve issue, didnt say he didnt have a charaghter flae being so damm nasty , but he sure didnt have a nerve issue my opion of cours
> 
> frankie


I think there is not much co-relation between the two myself, aside from dogs with super duper crappy nerves tending to be fearful of people in general..

The topic has come up here a few times, and since the wording just happened that way (from Gerben) I just wondered....

I saw a post on here from one guy that actually said that the handler was a nice, soft spoken guy, so therefore his dog was also social... 

I also don't think a dog who is not social, has a character flaw necessarily...but that is just my opinion..


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

> I also don't think a dog who is not social, has a character flaw necessarily...but that is just my opinion..


it's fact, proven many times over many years with many dogs....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: many dogsfrom these lines have very thin nerves that will also be the case whith him 
thats the reason they must bond first whith their handlers 
than their confidence comes back and you can see what hes made off 
greetings gerben

Everytime I hear of a "civil" dog, that needs time to "bond" that is the first thing I think of. 

Frankie, how dare you buy a dog for 3500 plus the retarded shipping, and if that was euros, that means that it was way more than that. How DARE you. LOL

I have met you, and you are a grown man. You can buy whatever the **** you want to. Tell them to **** off.

Do I believe the story they are telling ? No. Just being honest. I hope he is a good dog. If he eats you, let me know, and I will come beat the shit out of him for you. : )


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: sorry about that thin nerve part what i ment was that these dogs are on a thin line between social and not they need to bond first whith a handler than its time to show how they are 

Nice backpedal.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: sorry about that thin nerve part what i ment was that these dogs are on a thin line between social and not they need to bond first whith a handler than its time to show how they are
> 
> Nice backpedal.


LOL

Frankie. Good luck with the dog, you've done a decent thing.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

Everytime I hear of a "civil" dog, that needs time to "bond" that is the first thing I think of. 

JEFF i didnt understand what u were saying, when you hear that what is the first thing you think of??


Do I believe the story they are telling ? No. Just being honest. I hope he is a good dog. If he eats you, let me know, and I will come beat the shit out of him for you. : )

Thank you jeff for offering to come save my ass . you always such a nice helpful gentleman . One never know what stories are true. witch ones are made bigger or twisted or even totally true, maybe he a nasty sob and he eats me the first week. maybe he not . maybe he a strong dog with attitude and dont take no shit from me and takes me out, Maybe he a nerve bucket and every time the wind blows he freaks out he runs back to me and bites my big toe off,this is chance we take i suppose. 

But jeff just out of curiosty since you dont belive the stories are true. what is your educated guess, . just curios,

frankie


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

When I hear the bonding statement, what comes to mind sometimes is that the dog is rank and the bonding time is just that time needed for the dog to cement the fact that the handler is his b***h. Once the handler realizes the dog is in charge then the dog is fine with the new handler. Otherwise it's a constant power struggle and it's more of a PITA than anything else throughout training and life in general. If the handler is strong then there's likely semi regular come-to-Jesus meetings with the dog. The thing that sucks is that there is never a scheduled appointment for said meetings.](*,)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Drew Peirce said:


> it's fact, proven many times over many years with many dogs....


Can you please explain some? Not sure what you mean...

I can see it causing problems for some types of work, and for some handlers, and owners. But a character flaw is kind of a stretch for me...

or were you saying that if the owner is friendly and social the dog will be as well...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The "civil" dog that needs time to bond seems like it has thin nerves. The kind that would bite it's handler. 

As far as the story goes, it really sounds like a crock of shit. It sounds like a typical bunch of women rescue project, where they will tell you anything to save the dog.

The dog could be a nice dog, we all know how different terminology can be. I sure hope so. If not, then you and I can go to Finland and get your money back, Jay and Silent Bob style. LOL


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## Petra StrUbing (Dec 17, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The "civil" dog that needs time to bond seems like it has thin nerves. The kind that would bite it's handler.
> 
> As far as the story goes, it really sounds like a crock of shit. It sounds like a typical bunch of women rescue project, where they will tell you anything to save the dog.
> 
> The dog could be a nice dog, we all know how different terminology can be. I sure hope so. If not, then you and I can go to Finland and get your money back, Jay and Silent Bob style. LOL



Topic starter was a nice idea. But I hate to read Jeff Oelsen comments. (What I have read many other people hate too.)

I hope that the discussion ends here. If anyone has any questions about the dog, please send an e-mail: tulikuuma @ gmail.com . At least details of the dog are not correct and maybe you can start new topic about civil dogs. That dog has been so social until that even poor lady than me has not bited yet.

I will not send to this forum no longer videos or comments anymore, thanks to Jeff Oelsen.


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