# Testing for working dog temperament



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

One of the biggest misconceptions out there regarding working dogs and choosing them is the way they are selected for a given purpose. It's difficult for newer people to gauge a pup or young dog due to limited experience. So for you guys/gals who have lots of experience and seen LOTS of dogs. I'd like to know your methods when selecting a dog for a given task. I know a lot of it comes down to experience/intuition in some cases but if you would provide a few details about actual things you want to see and why and things you see and go "NOPE" your out!! And why.......

this is not restricted to any particular group but to include ALL the working dogs and their respective specialty. 

1. what are your tests while visiting the breeders for initial selection

2. what tests do you conduct as your working the dog through your program?

I think your answers to these questions could really help people getting in to these dogs.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I use the NOSE TEST. If the kennel operation smells like a K-9 sewer...stay away. Any critter that has to live in its own waste can't be healthy!


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I use the NOSE TEST. If the kennel operation smells like a K-9 sewer...stay away. Any critter that has to live in its own waste can't be healthy!


Howard I agree...


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Mine smells pretty bad Howard. I catch people looking at each other as they walk through the yard. because the smell is pretty bad.....then again, they have never walked through a place with 20 fly traps. They can never figure out what that smell is because there is no crap. Believe me when I say fly traps smell worse than fresh crap. That is why the flys go to them first.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Mine smells pretty bad Howard. I catch people looking at each other as they walk through the yard. because the smell is pretty bad.....then again, they have never walked through a place with 20 fly traps. They can never figure out what that smell is because there is no crap. Believe me when I say fly traps smell worse than fresh crap. That is why the flys go to them first.


Don we have those damn things too and yes they reek... we also have the old school fly tape hanging around.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Puppy should approach me alert and happy on it's own
Puppy should chase a toy with vigor and excitement
Puppy should not let go of said toy voluntarily
Puppy should be interested in me more than it's litter mates
Puppy should chase food with vigor and excitement
Puppy should chase thrown object
Puppy should be forward and pushy

Puppy should not bark at me while moving backwards at any time
Puppy should not hide from me at any time
Puppy should not require coaxing to come near me

Okay, so this is from a person with 'limited' experience, but so far this criteria has worked pretty well .


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Brian, T will probably say I am just pushing my way of doing it again, but, you asked. All pups are born outside in family units. I don't handle them until they are on their feet and coming out of the dog house/whelping box at about 4 weeks. That is when I judge them. Before any environmental influence. I look for confidence, pure and simple. The ones that come right up to me are at the top of the list. The next ones that come after they see the first ones didn't get eaten, they are second....and so forth. The first ones that come, some will stay with me and play, they are confident and dependent by bnature, others will come right up and meet me and be on their way to explore. Those are confident and independent. The dependent ones go to folks that are doing things that involve heavy training. The more independent ones go where they operate more on natural levels such as hunting. 

I used to try to micro classify dogs down to every little poissible traits and it was ludicrus. I finally realized the extreme confidence will over ride most any negative, including bad training. A dog with extreme confidence will always out perform a dog with less confidence. Hard work and endless training can compensate to a degree, but why subject yourself to that when the right dog makes it easy.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Brian, T will probably say I am just pushing my way of doing it again, but, you asked. All pups are born outside in family units. I don't handle them until they are on their feet and coming out of the dog house/whelping box at about 4 weeks. That is when I judge them. Before any environmental influence. I look for confidence, pure and simple. The ones that come right up to me are at the top of the list. The next ones that come after they see the first ones didn't get eaten, they are second....and so forth. The first ones that come, some will stay with me and play, they are confident and dependent by bnature, others will come right up and meet me and be on their way to explore. Those are confident and independent. The dependent ones go to folks that are doing things that involve heavy training. The more independent ones go where they operate more on natural levels such as hunting.
> 
> I used to try to micro classify dogs down to every little poissible traits and it was ludicrus. I finally realized the extreme confidence will over ride most any negative, including bad training. A dog with extreme confidence will always out perform a dog with less confidence. Hard work and endless training can compensate to a degree, but why subject yourself to that when the right dog makes it easy.


Don everybody is different and looking at things they want to see. So I won't criticize anyone for their way of testing. Thats why I posted the question. I have seen some creative ways of testing dogs that I never would have thought of. I agree 100% on the confidence factor. The lack of confidence (natural) cannot be ultimately fixed through training or at least I have not proven to be able to over come it. I can condition the dog true but will he fall apart under serious pressure? You tell me..


I have seen testing so rigid and intense that you realize really fast. Those have got to be strong dogs or they don't make the cut. 

oh T is welcome to interject.... She seems pretty sharp to me ... I guess we are all trying to push our own way kinda...being as we have found what works for US. I guess you can't say it would transfer to someone else.


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## Matthew Stansbury (Jul 18, 2011)

Brian Anderson said:


> One of the biggest misconceptions out there regarding working dogs and choosing them is the way they are selected for a given purpose. It's difficult for newer people to gauge a pup or young dog due to limited experience. So for you guys/gals who have lots of experience and seen LOTS of dogs. I'd like to know your methods when selecting a dog for a given task. I know a lot of it comes down to experience/intuition in some cases but if you would provide a few details about actual things you want to see and why and things you see and go "NOPE" your out!! And why.......
> 
> this is not restricted to any particular group but to include ALL the working dogs and their respective specialty.
> 
> ...


Excellent topic! This is of interest to me as well. I would also be interested in hearing of the unique ways you have heard of selection!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Matthew Stansbury said:


> Excellent topic! This is of interest to me as well. I would also be interested in hearing of the unique ways you have heard of selection!


+1


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

I've been testing puppies for working applications for about 16 years now. For my dogs, HRD, I have a set list of criteria that tends to increase with each go round due to experiences with both my dogs and others in search. I've tested for other applications and we tend to create application specific tests for the perspective owner.
To me puppy testing is an audition. If they can't get on the stage, then I won't be training them for the show. I've yet to have one of my dogs not certify, so must be doing something right.
My testing criteria is on Don's Airedale list in the SAR section. I think it's on the 2nd page of threads now. It's up to some 46 pages long the last time I printed it out.
I get my puppies early to benefit from the 4-16 week exponential learning curve as I create problem solvers. I prefer to start their training at 6-7 weeks. I've been around dogs all my life and have yet to have socializations issues that breeders claim will be eliminated if I wait longer and leave the puppy with the litter.

Criteria I test for in order of priority:
1) Obsession for the scent of human remains
2) problem solving ability
3) I prefer dogs that chase and retrieve a puppy size tennis ball at 5-7 weeks of age on their own.
5) Cautious but willing to explore on unknown stimuli, noise, visual, tactile.
6) Willing to go into an agility tunnel for scent
7) Loyalty and forgiveness in training
8) Middle of the road on aggression. I can't stand submissive dogs to train. My first dog and my current puppy were both hard, assertive dogs. They take longer to train, but it tends to stick forever once they get it. The middle two learned fast, but will test the waters more like a lab on a routine basis.
9) Will go over unstable surfaces
10) Has no issue with strangers and new environments.

The dogs I select for myself are always easy to train as they already love the scent and they love balls. I don't use the balls to train the scent, simply as a reward marker. I will not take a puppy, for myself, that doesn't fit ALL of my criteria.


Jim Delbridge


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Jim you were the type person I was looking for. Awesome!! Thanks for contributing.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Remember, those are MY criteria. I have always set up my testing score sheets that a puppy that I'll want will end up all 1's. I number the puppies (or the breeder gives me a color) and go soley off the scores. The past two dogs, I had second auditions and was glad I did so as I learned as much then as the initial screening.
When I set this up for other handlers, we spend hours creating their score sheet and it's with the caveat of "be careful what you wish for." One of my local team mates picked a dutch shepard/GSD intentional mix breeding and her only complaint is he's a lot of dog and she wishes he had a turn-off switch. Other than that, he's all she expected from the testing. She's training for disaster, so I think he's the perfect dog for her.
Since I usually test multiple litters before I find the puppy I want, my agreement with the breeder is they get a copy of all the score sheets and a litter summary. An early test is an opportunity to tweak a puppy a little more in one direction or a little less in another. Two-Three weeks later, the test should be close but will be affected by influences in those very crucial weeks. A good puppy can be squashed by accidental stimuli at the wrong time. If i get my puppy away early then I control its environment and can take full blame if it turns out with "issues." I tested a special german/german breeding of Airedales and turned downed all the puppies. Someone else tested them at 8 weeks and had similar results. We both spotted the best two dogs, one of them is now an agility champion, the one I told the breeder she should keep. The breeder chose the more head strong with similar attributes and appears happy with it. At that point it comes down to more personal training preferences. I could care less about agility and the only one that liked HR scent had behavioral issues that I didn't care for and wasn't high on the ball scale. Plus, the whole litter was scared to be outside in the great outdoors.....a back yard.....My dogs and I go in the worst places humankind can create on searches for remains that someone didn't want found.

The other crucial point to my testing is the breeder and anyone that's been around the puppies scentwise can not be present at testing as they will skew the results. For search, I have to see how the dog is going to react in a strange environment with a stranger(me and/or an assistant). If the breeder's scent is present, the puppy might run towards it for safety. If the puppy runs to hide, that tells me one thing. If the puppy runs to the breeder, I have to ponder as to whether it was truly afraid or simply avoiding the issue by going to a known safe harbor. I have no problem if the breeder watches quietly from either downwind or behind a glass barrier.

Jim


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Mine smells pretty bad Howard. I catch people looking at each other as they walk through the yard. because the smell is pretty bad.....then again, they have never walked through a place with 20 fly traps. They can never figure out what that smell is because there is no crap. Believe me when I say fly traps smell worse than fresh crap. That is why the flys go to them first.



Fly traps smell like death .... man thats a nasty smell!


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

selecting my new pup (not very scientific/trainery but), has crap all to do with observed pup behaviors. u did ask for various views; 

know what u want

research breeders their history, referalls, reputations and accomplishments

develop a working relationship with the breeder over a long period of time

tell the breeder in detail what u are looking for.

tell the breeder in detail what your experience level is

let them make a shortlist of say 2-3 pups max. present on selection day

pick the one that u "just like"


look at both parents work if possible

look at the mother working in lots of detail

look at as many of the mothers line working as possible

don't care to much about who the sperm donor is

look at repeat matings if possible

oh did i say look at the mother's / line working


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Jim Delbridge said:


> Remember, those are MY criteria. I have always set up my testing score sheets that a puppy that I'll want will end up all 1's. I number the puppies (or the breeder gives me a color) and go soley off the scores. The past two dogs, I had second auditions and was glad I did so as I learned as much then as the initial screening.
> When I set this up for other handlers, we spend hours creating their score sheet and it's with the caveat of "be careful what you wish for." One of my local team mates picked a dutch shepard/GSD intentional mix breeding and her only complaint is he's a lot of dog and she wishes he had a turn-off switch. Other than that, he's all she expected from the testing. She's training for disaster, so I think he's the perfect dog for her.
> Since I usually test multiple litters before I find the puppy I want, my agreement with the breeder is they get a copy of all the score sheets and a litter summary. An early test is an opportunity to tweak a puppy a little more in one direction or a little less in another. Two-Three weeks later, the test should be close but will be affected by influences in those very crucial weeks. A good puppy can be squashed by accidental stimuli at the wrong time. If i get my puppy away early then I control its environment and can take full blame if it turns out with "issues." I tested a special german/german breeding of Airedales and turned downed all the puppies. Someone else tested them at 8 weeks and had similar results. We both spotted the best two dogs, one of them is now an agility champion, the one I told the breeder she should keep. The breeder chose the more head strong with similar attributes and appears happy with it. At that point it comes down to more personal training preferences. I could care less about agility and the only one that liked HR scent had behavioral issues that I didn't care for and wasn't high on the ball scale. Plus, the whole litter was scared to be outside in the great outdoors.....a back yard.....My dogs and I go in the worst places humankind can create on searches for remains that someone didn't want found.
> 
> ...



A good puppy can be squashed by accidental stimuli at the wrong time. If i get my puppy away early then I control its environment and can take full blame if it turns out with "issues." 

that is worth reading multiple times.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lots of good answers here. 
One thing I look for is sound pups that have no nerve issues. If I see one pup in the litter like that I stop looking. Maybe that one pup is the only one but the potential is there for any of them to go sour.
If I personally pick the pup and raise it myself I don't worry about all the things that "might" happen.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

i would assume health issues would be covered in a contract. how many people here buy with a written contract and how legally binding are they.

i got ripped off in my first purchase - deposit but no pup and no written contract. what goea around comes around though i guess - small world the doggie world.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I might be the odd one out, but, I prefer to not have a contract. No limited registration, no strings attached. I fully own the dog if I pay for it, and if you don't trust me to do right by your pup then I'd rather not buy him from you. I've been happier with all my dogs whom I got without contracts, than with the one who had a 3 page long one. never again.

Inversely, shit happens, pups can develop problems that were not apparent at 6-8 weeks old, I am not expecting an ironclad guarantee that this pup 100% wont have bad hips or a mising molar or whatever issues. I am not going to demand another dog in it's place or a refund. If the issue is bad enough it's up to me to send him back or rehome or PTS if need be. Lesson learned. I will do my best to make you aware of it and how you handle that is up to you - and shows what kind of breeder you really are. IMO.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

With litters I've raised, I pick them up and handle them from day 1. I make notes on how they respond to that handling. Week 3 is big in that they have all their senses available to them. I've seen puppies change and show environmental sensitivity then. I do little test games from week 3-7 in terms of how they handle the 4 different floor surfaces in the house; what happens when I sit them down in a room they've never seen before; different sounds--toilet flushing; coffee grinder; music on the surround sound; my son's trumpet playing; me droppign things; temperature changes; first time outside [5-5 1/2 weeks]; not big but I do watch them for where they fit in the litter pack structure; toy drive; which ones are hanging off my pants leg; good weather/kiddie pool; trip to the farm [gates; cattle; sheep; new people]; occasionally I've taken them to an indoor obedience trial [people environments and no earlier than 10 weeks]. 5-51/2 weeks, first trip outdoors and confidence in new environments [cars, people walking down the street, kids playing, etc.], 3 steps, the degree they explore and distance etc. 7 weeks--instinct test with the ducks--confidence to engage first and foremost and then--prey chase vs. heading, gathering, etc. 8 weeks, I leash break and crate train. They're gone to their new homes by 10 weeks. I've picked mine as early as 3 weeks and 5 weeks. 

If I'm picking out of another litter: they're confidence in approaching me; the degree to which they engage me and want to interact with me; how they react to the silly wind up sheep toy; how they react when I drop the metal pie pan; elevation; on their backs; play with a toy; eye contact & intelligence. I'll watch them with their littermates but I'm not necessarily looking for the dominant puppy amongst dogs. Lately I've said I'm going to look at retrieve but I haven't in the past. My bouvier had this confidence and affinity for people. She was confident leaving us and going pretty far away to meet some unknown people coming to pick up a dog at a breeding kennel. Intially, the entire litter went running towards them but at different distances, they turned back to the area where their pen was. Khira and Izzy went all the way and stood as the people walked toward them. The eval ended at that point for me. I'd seen enough. An x-pen fell over next to her and it was as if she didn't notice. I dropped metal on top of metal while they were eating--she didn't notice. She wasn't the dominant dog in the litter but the pushy dominant one didn't bother her amd she mostly ignored the pushy dominant puppy. She was very easily handled without being submissive---just comfortable--enough to fall completely asleep on her back in my arms. Same puppy walked in my house a week later and destroyed a toy and pretty much thought she could take over the dog pack. In contrast there was another puppy I like the looks of [structure]. However, she could have cared less about us--completely aloof and indifferent--not afraid. Fine with all the environmental stuff. I tossed around whether once I had her home, would she be that independent. Decided, better to get the puppy that was so at ease with everybody and and chose people instead of the puppy dog pack or to even be alone. At 6 weeks you didn't see alot of prey/bite. That came two weeks later and then another amp around 15-16 months. Both puppies were for livestock work.

T


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