# need advice please



## Bobby Bradley (Aug 13, 2011)

Hello, I am very new to working dogs and I think ive made some mistakes when it comes to my pup but hopefully nothing that can't be reversed. I have a 6 month old Corso that I purchased from a breeder that works or atleast test his stock before breeding. He trains in pertection. I would like to do the same with my pup. I started late in obedience but he has got it down pretty well within the last few days. What I am concerned about is that he is afraid of loud noises. I put coins in a bottle and shake it, and he is fine with that. But if I drag the garbage can to loud or throw a chair, not at him, he is afraid. I was told to expose him to what ever he is afraid of. What is the best way to do this with out breaking his spirit? I think I was so focused on socializing him to new people, that I did not put him in enough new situations. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Angie Stark (Jul 10, 2009)

sorry to hi-jack, but who is this breeder who works his corsos?


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: "I was told to expose him to what ever he is afraid of."
- imo, this is WAY too general....what were the details of this advice ? that should help you decide if it was good advice or not

the answers are simple but just stating them will not give you a plan to follow and that is what you need
and unless you can state a baseline of where you are now, i don't think you have a good grasp on the problem yet

...but that is just an opinion based on a few sentences and without seeing the dog and you together


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

btw, if your Q was part of your introductory bio, welcome ....


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Apollo Bull said:


> Hello, I am very new to working dogs and I think ive made some mistakes when it comes to my pup but hopefully nothing that can't be reversed. I have a 6 month old Corso that I purchased from a breeder that works or atleast test his stock before breeding. He trains in pertection. I would like to do the same with my pup. I started late in obedience but he has got it down pretty well within the last few days. What I am concerned about is that he is afraid of loud noises. I put coins in a bottle and shake it, and he is fine with that. But if I drag the garbage can to loud or throw a chair, not at him, he is afraid. I was told to expose him to what ever he is afraid of. What is the best way to do this with out breaking his spirit? I think I was so focused on socializing him to new people, that I did not put him in enough new situations. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.




Hi, and welcome,

We noticed that when you joined in 2011 you were not advised by admin of the requirement to use real names. 

Please send me a PM with your real name (first and last) so I can correct your login. *Thanks!*




_
Note: Corrected. Thank you!_


----------



## Bobby Bradley (Aug 13, 2011)

It seemed very general to me too, but I asked if he is afraid of the garbage can falling, should I keep dropping the garbage can until he does not react to it. I asked should I use food to associate good with the loud sound, I was told that he doesn't like to train with food.


----------



## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

Are you going to train with the breeder? Because if not then use every tool available to you and do not let someone else prejudice determine what you can or can not dog with your own dog. 
How old was your pup when you got him?
Do you understand that many breeds including mastiffs have fear periods and the may completely get over this on his own? (Mastiff type dogs can be spooky pups and develop into normal adults)
I would also start smaller. If dog is scared of falling trash can. (self preservation) The start with just moving the can an inch, praised or treat for him remaining steady or not reacting. Then move the can 2 inches and slowly build up to where is is happy to see the can crash on the floor. It will not happen over night. Always be positive so he will learn from you that this is no big deal. 
Use toys, tugs, treats anything that he will see is a positive reward. Don't limit your toolbox because someone else doesn't use something.
And if possible enroll in basic training classes so pup has a baseline for what is normal and expected.
Best of luck
K


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"I would also start smaller. If dog is scared of falling trash can. (self preservation) The start with just moving the can an inch, praised or treat for him remaining steady or not reacting. Then move the can 2 inches and slowly build up to where is is happy to see the can crash on the floor. It will not happen over night. Always be positive so he will learn from you that this is no big deal. ... Use toys, tugs, treats anything that he will see is a positive reward. Don't limit your toolbox because someone else doesn't use something."_


I agree. I'd work (upbeat fun ob with rewards) at a distance from the trash can, and only slowly move closer. Desensitizing (for me) is a gradual process, and it's done in stages that don't trigger his fear response.


----------



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

what is the trash can made of? Metal or Plastic? Strength of the noise? How close? How far? Any escalation noise build-up?

For me, personally, I make "noise" as a matter of everyday life. I don't make a point of making noise but make noise as a matter of point. In other words, the noise is nothing special. I don't draw attention to it, it's just there. Vacuum cleaners, dropping stuff, heavy equipment, gunfire, things dropping, it's just life. If you can get someone else to be the noise maker, then I would be doing something with the dog so that it's attention is not focused on the noise. Dog gets reward for maintaining focus on you the handler vs the noise. 

Are you part of a group? Or doing this on your own?


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bobby..make a short video of it.,


----------



## Bobby Bradley (Aug 13, 2011)

Appreciate all the help. I will work on gradually getting him used to noises. I was not aware that some mastiffs go through fear stages when they are young. I am not a part of a group, I am working with the breeder. But I am also looking for other advice as I understand that every dog may not respond to one a certain style of training.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

it's been said but i want to say it in a different way :=)
1. the vids can be helpful, but it is only a few mins of one event
2. you need to work on this issue all the time, and even tho some basic advice that is GOOD, has been written, try thinking of it this way :

based on the simple stuff you wrote so far, the dog probably does have noise problems even if it's going thru a fear stage, so you can and should work on them rather than let the fear stage be a possible explanation and not worry about it

you need to understand that desensitizing and counter conditioning to noise needs to be done in extremely small increments
- and each increment should NOT cause the dog to react. if it does, that tells you that "increment" was too much, and this is where i think a lot of people make mistakes. the old one step fwd and three backwards syndrome
- since i assume you will be keeping this dog for life and not getting it ready to sell, you DO have the time to do it right 
- without a baseline you can't possibly know where to start. take extra time testing thresholds with a variety of sounds
- without a plan, you will fail, and by that i mean keep some records of progress anyway that's simple, but go at this systematically
- many multiple short reps that do NOT cause conflict are better than thinking, "that's great, let's do one more"
- start reading your dog better ... meaning look for the subtle signs, not the obvious ones
---examples : 1. i had a dog that was noise sensitive and her first sign of nerves was stiffening....before ANY other reaction...at first i couldn't tell that without having a hand on her neck 2. had a dog that had a fistful of firecrackers tossed at him. his first reaction was eye movement
....bottom line is there are probably signs before the dog bolts or starts shaking, etc
- get creative, and that means REALLY think outside the box and mix up the drills so they can be fun...the goal is to make your dog ENJOY noise
-----one example : make up more FUN drills with your dog that it really likes BEFORE you start your DS/CC plan

bottom line for me is the more smaller you can make each step and take the conflict out, the less the dog ever realizes it is actually being conditioned and "manipulated" around the sounds

work smarter not harder !!
good luck and hope you take the time to keep us posted of progress and setbacks rather than fade into lurk mode

cures are not guaranteed ... but progress can be


----------



## Bobby Bradley (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks a lot, I will surely work with him to overcome this. I am keeping him, he is a great dog. Just want to work on his noise sensitivity. Thank you all for the advice. Will keep you updated a we progress.


----------



## Clarence Pierre (Jun 15, 2013)

"Fear Period" is a term used to describe what ALL dogs go through. You mus watch them to when they start it and when the are finishing it. 
Desensitation to noises is a process. 
Both these issues need, IMO, should be systematically scheduled. 
Best to get a training notebook and just make notes of what,where, when,how, and the time/weather at which it happens. Then you have a reference. 
As with all training start small, baby steps, then progress. If you see any serious hesitation go back to the last achievement point and regain the momentum.
Training is also a lifelong thing for personal dogs. 
Doesn't really matter what kind of can it is, only because you should be using all different kinds to prep him for anything. 
Simple training plan...skip a meal, keep the dog in your vicinity, toss a garbage lid lightly down on the floor and then drop his kibble on it.
You can do it piece by piece or by handful, just make sure he sees and hears it. 
The hunger will overide the fear. 
It's like working a dog "in drive" to overcome environmental issues. 
Good luck.


----------



## Clarence Pierre (Jun 15, 2013)

Apologies for the grammatical issues with my above post...
Anyway, with the fear period, you will notice it when something they never showed any difference to becomes relevent "all of a sudden". Then like it started, it will go away. Pick three areas to walk and hit them regularly, watch your dog as you walk and inventory his normal reactions. Then you will be able to see "abnormal" ones easier.


----------



## Paul Cipparone (Feb 13, 2011)

When i teach gun work , loud noises, i start many yards away.I place the dogs food down ,i'm at a distance that i can see the dogs reaction to the noise when he/she is eating , if the dog lifts it's head from the food ,i'm too close. Move back , until the dog eats while the noise occurs & does not lift it's head. I do this until there is no lifting of the head from the dish. I use this with all hunting " upland , duck dogs ". Sometimes you have to hold the food back for a couple of days, to allow survival instincts to take over from the fear of noises. This has worked many times .
The distances i have used vary to hundreds of yards depending on the individual dog.
Paul C.


----------



## Paul Cipparone (Feb 13, 2011)

I forgot to mention, i move closer to the dog , one foot at a time . If I find I can move a greater distance to the dog then so be it . If the dog lifts its head , I move back to where there was no negative reaction.
Example " young labrador retriever left with me for bird training .Owner upon leaving the dog tells me the dog is gun shy. " Another trainer told him to let the dog accompany him on on a game farm hunt, telling him to bring the dog up front.Mistake == over exposure to the gun.
I used a shotgun primer blank gun , similar to the ones used in many French Ring trials, using 8 shots per day for 3 weeks. I could finally stand beside the dog & she would not lift her head from the dish. I coupled the further training with the retrieve of the dummy winged decoy .I repeated the gun work with the owners 12 ga. shotgun. All went well.
Paul C.


----------



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I like clarances' plan.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I had a Molosser - a Fila Brasileiro - who had a timid phase at about 7 months. He was suddenly afraid of the train rushing into the station, afraid of a big container, delivering cheese to our cheese cellar nearby, so much so that a day later, he wouldn't stand on the spot where the container stand.

It all disappeared within a week or two and the dog showed no more fear at all.

I don't honestly think that repeatedly putting the pup in the same situation time after time will benefit.

All dogs, not just Molossers, can have fear periods - Molossers mature later, hence the fear period can appear later.

Some dogs have no fear periods but I do not think this has anything to do with the breed. Landseer, Berger de Brie and 2 GSDs didn't have this.

The elder GSD was not overly fond of children and women which told me that he was very often wary of things he had not experienced as a pup. At 8 weeks, his favourite persons were large men - fitted in with my choice of the human race :lol:


----------

