# Caucasian and Asian ovcharkas



## Mary Vedernikova (Sep 10, 2013)

I want to continue the topic started here: http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f16/brave-decoy-30066/

So, I want show a few videos with the Caucasian and Asian ovcharkas. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGhIZlhj-XE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnJPM9JlnSk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjLZqjSXxeg - 9 month

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci780k8Kg1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6DUS0r76V4

I'm interested in your opinion.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mary Vedernikova said:


> I'm interested in your opinion.


How are you related to the dogs in the video, are they yours? did you breed them? train them?


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## Mary Vedernikova (Sep 10, 2013)

These dogs belong to the members of our association. Owners of dogs and decoys have consented to the publication of the video on this forum.

We suggest you to see our approach to training real proteсtion dogs. 

Than, one more videos: 

http://youtu.be/IEsY_A8CEqY


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mary Vedernikova said:


> These dogs belong to the members of our association. Owners of dogs and decoys have consented to the publication of the video on this forum.
> 
> We suggest you to see our approach to training real proteсtion dogs.
> 
> ...


who are the owners and trainers, what is the organization? how are you related to the organization, and any vids of your dogs?

not trying to be rude, but you join 2 days ago, post no information about yourself and then post other peoples videos for everyone to critique?


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Why don't the dogs stay on bites?

A bite is a bite, I know, but the police dogs I've seen (granted, only at demos, so my experience is limited) pretty much bite like any of the good ring or IPO dogs do.

Also not trying to be rude, just wondering.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

move nice for big dogs. Sure glad I don't have to brush them. Do they have a lot of stamina to work for extended periods of time or do they gas out pretty quick?


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

I like the dog in the this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjLZqjSXxeg vid and the last one in your first post.
The others strike me as somewhat insecure..


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Not impressed with the dogs or the training :-(


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mary, you may not have known that am intro/bio is a requirement on WDF.

It goes here:

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/


Thank you!


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## Guy Williams (Jun 26, 2012)

Katie Finlay said:


> Why don't the dogs stay on bites?
> 
> A bite is a bite, I know, but the police dogs I've seen (granted, only at demos, so my experience is limited) pretty much bite like any of the good ring or IPO dogs do.
> 
> Also not trying to be rude, just wondering.


They look to be very defensive bites. Maybe Mary can tell us if they have any foundation training in prey drive or have much prey drive at all? It may be this is exactly how they want them although I would have thought control may be an issue without a smidge of prey based work. I certainly wouldn't want a dog that size that needed to be choked off the bite as appears to be the case in the last video of the original post. 

:neutral:


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## Mary Vedernikova (Sep 10, 2013)

Well, it is necessary to introduce. )))
My name is Mary Vedernikova, I`m dog trainer in national disciplines and leader of section by Caucases in Owner`s Working Dog Club (MAXIMUS). 

We open for owners, breeders and trainers from Russia, Ukraine and other countries, interested in real dog and traning.

About stay bite. We think, that CO (caucases) & CAO (central asian ovcharkas) have pronounced the ritual behavior, which includes also the prohibition on killing the enemy surrendered. For simple owner who is not a cop, that's good, because dog haven`t kill a man. Else, enough to work with an interception saves lives most dogs from a possible sighting knife or knobstick until the dog stay bite.



> Do they have a lot of stamina to work for extended periods of time or do they gas out pretty quick?


When training make right and the availability of training motivation, yes, dogs are able to work for a long time. A some years ago an elderly Caucasian female whole night restrained drugged robbers armed with anything. Police arrived in the morning. The dog died, but the two women were closed in the garden house and survived. At the training of these dogs is a problem - to keep drive at a high level during the session. It`s really.


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## Mary Vedernikova (Sep 10, 2013)

Guy Williams said:


> They look to be very defensive bites. Maybe Mary can tell us if they have any foundation training in prey drive or have much prey drive at all? It may be this is exactly how they want them although I would have thought control may be an issue without a smidge of prey based work. I certainly wouldn't want a dog that size that needed to be choked off the bite as appears to be the case in the last video of the original post.
> 
> :neutral:


This dogs have these dogs are genetically suppressed the pray drive but have a pronounced health visitor behavior. Therefore, training to protect them most effectively build on the modeling of different game situations and emotions.


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## Mary Vedernikova (Sep 10, 2013)

I want to say that when working with these dogs decoy should artistically portray the emotions that he experienced in real life. Anger, fear, doubt, and so on. If the dog will make friends with this person, she will not bite him.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Guy Williams said:


> They look to be very defensive bites. Maybe Mary can tell us if they have any foundation training in prey drive or have much prey drive at all? It may be this is exactly how they want them although I would have thought control may be an issue without a smidge of prey based work. I certainly wouldn't want a dog that size that needed to be choked off the bite as appears to be the case in the last video of the original post.
> 
> :neutral:


That's how I felt. The behavior looks very classic for an insecure or fearful dog. The bites will be bad, no doubt, but I don't see the level of commitment that I would consider these dogs any more "real" or serious than the dogs trained everywhere else.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

My opinion is they look like very physically strong large dogs that I would not like to try to pick a fight with, and also dogs that have too much hair for me, and probably eat too much and poop too much for me as well.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> My opinion is they look like very physically strong large dogs that I would not like to try to pick a fight with, and also dogs that have too much hair for me, and probably eat too much and poop too much for me as well.


Hahahaha, I agree. I don't want to fight one. But I think their size has a lot to do with it. I could accomplish the same with most other breeds we work with.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

I think they would be awesome property guardians though cant think any burgler or predator will want to question where the bite is coming from. Lol


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> Hahahaha, I agree. I don't want to fight one. But I think their size has a lot to do with it. I could accomplish the same with most other breeds we work with.


I do think that they would do the job, if the job was to ward off and attack someone if needed, and probably would do so with little training at all if they were decent examples.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i'd like to see these same dogs in control in public places and not just in a backyard training scenario to evaluate their overall temperaments as protection dogs


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> I do think that they would do the job, if the job was to ward off and attack someone if needed, and probably would do so with little training at all if they were decent examples.


For sure. But I think that's the same for most other working/protection breeds, no?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Size and image will take them a long way but I would also like to see more commitment in their bites. 
That doesn't mean I would want one grabbing me with a weak bite though. :grin: :wink:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> For sure. But I think that's the same for most other working/protection breeds, no?


yes. and if not it should be.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i watched the first clip again ... 

- was not impressed by the way the blk/wht dog slithered away with its tail between its legs and head down: nor did i see a reason why you would raise your hand like u were trying to smack it on the head ... why, especially since it was the first to engage ?
- seemed to break off quicker, but never could see its grip well; view mostly blocked by the suit
- also wondered why you had the dogs in a down facing each other before you sent them ... why do you do it that way ?

assuming that was you, but if not your opinion is still welcome

haven't watched the others closely yet


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> nor did i see a reason why you would raise your hand like u were trying to smack it on the head ...


looked like a hand/arm signal for "down" to me...


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## Mary Vedernikova (Sep 10, 2013)

> i'd like to see these same dogs in control in public places and not just in a backyard training scenario to evaluate their overall temperaments as protection dogs


For example, look this link - http://cvrs.fmbb.ru/viewtopic.php?t=366

And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYbOVhVCiEM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVsxmbLa8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epN4LYVdeQ0

We haven`t forget that in USSR for these dogs was "Guard duty" (Karaulnaya Sluzhba), where checking minimal skills of obedience. And some trainers think that good obedience prevents perform well individually guard, dampens initiative dog.


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## Mary Vedernikova (Sep 10, 2013)

Joby Becker said:


> looked like a hand/arm signal for "down" to me...


Yes, you are right :razz:


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