# Home Invasion Scenarios?



## Chris Michalek

We're going to do a few home invasion sessions this evening and tomorrow. 

We've done things in the past with my wife answering the door, there is yelling etc and the decoy pushes his way in. We've also done things where we return from a ride in the car and the decoy is in the house. And we've done perimeter alerts.

We're going to recreate what happened a few days ago.

Other ideas?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Leave it be and learn to lock your doors and not play your music like you are 16.

Then, call Al up, and let him tell you about his dog Monty. LOL That is what you need. : )


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## Howard Gaines III

Practice for what you hope to not encounter... Bad guy in the kitchen, garage, closet. 
Hidden sleeve and well padded pants would be the better way to go, no current smells on bite suits. 
Also practice drinking a cold beer SLOWLY, then fumble with the 911 buttoms, and a 1/2 hour later release the dog from the bite!


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## Meng Xiong

get it on vid too!


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## Jerry Lyda

Video would be nice.

What Howard said


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## Mark Baldassarre

Howard's right Chris. You have to make it as unpredictable and real as possible. Personally, I spend a lot of time deconditioning the dog to the muzzle, because it's the least cuing piece of equipment you can use.

But other things you can do are forms of run-offs when the decoy is found by the dog. Things like; dog finds perp in a room and perp flees out the door w/o a bite. These bring some civil to the table and also build frustration for a real bite. 
Also, a building [home] search where the perp is hiding in a closet but the dog can't get to him. Another; you let dog find decoy in one room, send him but decoy flees to next room slamming the door at the last second & frustrates the dog by cracking the door and taunting him. You can then let the dog drag you to the perp as he escapes through the window of that room. Make sure the dog gets to see the run off, or cut the dog loose just as the decoy makes it over the fence.
Another; have your decoy sneak into a room you guys predetermine. Again, decoy is wearing no equipment. Decoy escapes to another room where a jacket/sweatshirt preloaded w/a low profile hidden sleeve is waiting. On an unfamiliar predetermined cue, send dog for the actual bite. Dog thinks he's going in for a naked decoy. That's a real good a civil test, so I don't do it repeatedly, or the dog will get the idea that a sleeve[even a hidden] will be there for him every time. 


Anytime the dog finds a decoy in the house wearing the usual equipment, or sees his usual decoy, he's gonna be cued by that. So I'd use as many willing agitators as you can find and use the equipment as little as possible.

One other thing you can do is; do the peek a boo thing from a find in the closet... & have the decoy wear an over sized coat {like a trench coat}. Let the dog get a grip on that coat through the door and have your agitator act like he's fighting for his life to escape the dog. Once the dog is on the coat decoy can bust out of the closet making his escape...handler keeps dog from countering his bite of course,lol. If the jacket rips, all the better. If not decoy can slip it and run out the door.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Yes, you can make your dog "real". =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Howard Gaines III

Chris I had another thought that could be used, thinking before I go to work! Using a .38 blank gun in the house gives a different sound than outside. If you are wanting to teach the dog to bite the weapon hand, the sound levels will be higher inside than out. The dog might not bite for that reason... Practice popping a few rounds, beer that is!!!


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## Gerry Grimwood

Chris Michalek said:


> We're going to recreate what happened a few days ago.
> 
> Other ideas?


Why the cloak and dagger scenario's ?? Just do what you were doing when you got robbed, that would be a start.


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## Chris Michalek

I have no need for a real PP dog. All I really want is something better than what happened. Perhaps I can't expect anything better than what I have as I think what happened was having the music too loud. As I type, there are three dogs at my feet, the pug is under the desk where she always is when I'm in here. The Mali is sleeping in his crate (his choice) which is right next to my desk and one female rottie is laying in the other corner of this room. We are about 50ft away from where the back door is. I can't hear it open from wear I am. 

We do have an alarm system where all of the door and window beep when opened but with the backdoor, I have a doggie door insert that prevent the back door from closing all the way. So that door will never beep when it's moved. I suppose I can move the sensor....

The Male Rottie and two other dogs are in the bedroom with my wife. So again, I'm open to the same situation except the door is locked this time and the house is quiet save for a fan or two. I think the dogs would do much better at detecting something.

Jeff, when I practice music, I practice at performance volumes. Asking me to turn it down is like training half speed or half assed. I make my money via music so it's different than some 16yr old wailing on a guitar for fun or some punk listening to cranked up music. I do it for real and I do it for money. I ain't no sport dog! LOL

I don't need to train with guns in the house unless it's me with the gun. If a bad guy has a gun, a dog is going to get shot. I can't really simiulate that. And if a dog got shot in my house, the perp wouldn't get off another round before he got shot or a baseball bat slammed into his head even if it meant I had to shoot one of my own dogs in the process. Family first.

I don't need a bite though I'm sure at least two of them would dig in nicely. All I want is a better alert and maybe a H&B. The ****ed up thing about AZ laws are, I can be sued by a theif that has been bitten by one of my dogs but if I shot his ass or kill him, he can't sue unless he can prove he was there legitimately. 

So I don't need a true PP dog. I don't need one going for the weapon hand. I don't go through bad neighborhoods looking for a fight. If somebody wants to stick a gun in my face for the $10 I usually have in my wallet then so be it. I can cancel my Credit Cards faster than he can use them. And if I'm going to be killed then I'm going to be killed and no dog is going to stop that. 

If an unarmed person wants to fight me and i have my dog then I know he's a crack head. My dog will also light up on command in a situation like that and even though he would bite, I don't need him to but if it happens it happens.

Anyway, the Mal has never bit in the house and he's not ready for a hidden sleeve so maybe a few session of "find the bad guy" for a bite on a sleeve would be enough for now. Just so he knows that home can be a place to "go to work" as well. I also think if a little bit of noise means they might get to bite they will be moe apt to check out the sounds in the house, random or not. How can a person not almost shit his pants with a passel of barking dogs in his face?

Am I off base with this thinking?


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## Edward Egan

Maybe consult with your alarm or electronics intergration company to consider motion sensors for the yard or other places. You can even have lights flash when a motion is trigered. Many other tech solutions available. A good intergration company will give your many options.


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## Tanith Wheeler

If you're going to do something that will prevent your dogs from hearing an intruder, why not make it easy for them?
Pinpoint the locations that you think someone could get in - or is most likely to do so and teach the dogs to guard that point. i.e. you want to play - get dog to lie in kitchen, it would be able to hear an intruder easier and you should be able to hear the dog go nuts.

My male is fairly protective but sport trained not PPD. When I go to bed or have a bath he is expected to lie at the top of the stairs, from that position he can guard the only entrance to the 3 bedrooms and should be able to hear someone entering through windows - there is a bed there and a bowl of water in the upstairs bathroom.

On several occasions he has warned of trespassers front or rear, will bark and go to the appropriate window. Putting gravel outside helps too.


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## Jerry Lyda

Hey buddy I got an idea for you.

You said you have an alarm system, it beeps when a door or window is opened.

This is what I would do. Have them to alert when they hear that beep. It would be easy to train. Have someone open the door and you give the alert command. Train for this over and over. I'd do it with all dogs present so that they could feed off each other. Should make it easier. Of course reward with whatever works. If your dogs do bite, have the guy wear a sleeve and let the dogs have him. This should become fun to them. If ever a bad guy does come in the dogs would have already alerted you with the barking. Maybe he would even get bit if he's brave enough to come on in. 

Just a suggestion but I think it'll work.


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## Esther Chai

As part of Jerry's suggestion, you could link up a couple of "blinking lights" say, in your music room and bedroom to the alarm. Your dogs will soon learn to associate the blinking lights and alert you despite the volume you may have on in the room. Deaf people use their hearing dogs for such purpose like doorbell and telephone.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Esther Chai said:


> As part of Jerry's suggestion, you could link up a couple of "blinking lights" say, in your music room and bedroom to the alarm. Your dogs will soon learn to associate the blinking lights and alert you despite the volume you may have on in the room. Deaf people use their hearing dogs for such purpose like doorbell and telephone.


I think Jeff Foxworthy once said " you might be a ******* if you have to train ur dogs to come out from underneath the porch when a stranger is in the house "


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## Jerry Lyda

Good point Esther


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## Jeff Oehlsen

QUOTE:
Jeff, when I practice music, I practice at performance volumes. Asking me to turn it down is like training half speed or half assed. I make my money via music so it's different than some 16yr old wailing on a guitar for fun or some punk listening to cranked up music. I do it for real and I do it for money. I ain't no sport dog! LOL

Oh shut up with your "training". Don't you play the harmonica ??? 

Anyway, the Mal has never bit in the house and he's not ready for a hidden sleeve so maybe a few session of "find the bad guy" for a bite on a sleeve would be enough for now. Just so he knows that home can be a place to "go to work" as well. I also think if a little bit of noise means they might get to bite they will be moe apt to check out the sounds in the house, random or not. How can a person not almost shit his pants with a passel of barking dogs in his face?

Am I off base with this thinking?

Look who responded to you, and you have your answer. When you attract this many dipshits at once you have to ask ???


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## Timothy Stacy

Screw all this bite work. Lets hear your music!!!\\/


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## Bob Scott

I like Jerry and Esther's ideas. 
My wood working shop is separate from the house. With all the moise from the machinery I have a separate lith that the wife can turn off and on from the house. The dog are usually inside the shop with me and have figured out by them selves that the blinking light means I'm gooin in the house.
I also spend a few days every month at the firing range. Beats the hell out of worrying about how my dogs will handle a bad guy! :wink:


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## Chris Michalek

Timothy Stacy said:


> Screw all this bite work. Lets hear your music!!!\\/


I'm a harmonica player. I play like nobody else and am known in music circles as the guy who is defining the way modern harmonica is played. 100% of my income is via my harmonica skills.


First recorded version of purple haze played on the harmonica - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1sgmj7JvCA
Blues - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN17KmSOyEw
Billie Jean - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egpSg-r-VlU
Odd Time Jazz - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oll5ESfmmDo
jazz R&B stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIFQk0pbPTw
r&B stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAvxKVdaE_Y
travels through the space of a demented mind - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1m0HPyxK4
jam band fusion stuff - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dfizyBLhoQ


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## Timothy Stacy

Chris Michalek said:


> I'm a harmonica player. I play like nobody else and am known in music circles as the guy who is defining the way modern harmonica is played. 100% of my income is via my harmonica skills.
> 
> 
> First recorded version of purple haze played on the harmonica - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1sgmj7JvCA
> Blues - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN17KmSOyEw
> Billie Jean - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egpSg-r-VlU
> Odd Time Jazz - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oll5ESfmmDo
> jazz R&B stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIFQk0pbPTw
> r&B stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAvxKVdaE_Y
> travels through the space of a demented mind - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1m0HPyxK4
> jam band fusion stuff - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dfizyBLhoQ


Very nice. I just listened to first but I'm going to listen to all of them after this. What are your thoughts on John Popper?


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## Chris Michalek

Timothy Stacy said:


> Very nice. I just listened to first but I'm going to listen to all of them after this. What are your thoughts on John Popper?



John Popper is great song writer and musician. His harmonica skills are what they are and I'm happy to know he';s influenced a lot of people.

I've been doing the hamonica with only bass and drums for a long time. I use effects to color the sound of the harmonica as it's the only solo instrument. You can hear my influence on John Popper with this group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6knRJ-90HI

Here are a bunch more MP3s if you happen to like that stuff...
http://www.harmonicapros.com/chris_music/


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## Don Turnipseed

I can't imaging how many are looking at the viscious, bite trained dog laying beside them this week and wondering, what will it do in the same situation. I think this may call for more traing to regain that sense of security that has been lost. More training and will you have a dog that will at least sense there is something wrong. No. Will you know if he will even bite in a given situation? No
This didn't just impact Chris, now everyone is looking down at their dog .....wondering.


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## Howard Gaines III

Some of this goes back to what I have been through with folks concerning home security and home improvement work. There are people out there who will buy a gun but will not purchase the ammo or learn how to use the thing, much less shoot anyone. "All I want to do is scare the person away, not harm them." How many times have I heard this?!

Or better yet, "All I want is a dog to bark and the bad guy will run away." And if you click your heels three times and say, "There's no place like home..." Dream on. Unless I'm wrong Chris, you feel SUPER VIOLATED/HOMELAND RAPED!

When my truck was broken into years ago, the carpentry tools that were ME, were gone. The feeling that a locked door was all the safety I needed was done!!!! Violated beyond extreme was the feeling. I now have taken many other measures to ensure to the best of my ability, MY STUFF. I train with my dogs, have home measures in place, have and will use a firearm, and post my property. I also have a strong martial arts background, still the bad guy can get stuff IF they want it.

Insurance will cover most lost items and time will heal many wounds. But violated will forever be carved into my spirit! :evil: God help you if you catch me on a sleepless/PO day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## maggie fraser

Hey Chris,

Sorry to go a bit off topic... but harmonica you say?

Get a load of this....one of my all time favourites, the harmonica solo is something else!

Talk Talk 'Living In Another World'.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAlLQaDXc4I


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## Gillian Schuler

And whilst you're talking about harmonicas, his wife's purse has been stolen again [-X


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## maggie fraser

Gillian Schuler said:


> And whilst you're talking about harmonicas, his wife's purse has been stolen again [-X


Maybe she should keep it stuffed under the mattress like everyone else. Harmonica is fab!


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## maggie fraser

don turnipseed said:


> i can't imaging how many are looking at the viscious, bite trained dog laying beside them this week and wondering, what will it do in the same situation. I think this may call for more traing to regain that sense of security that has been lost. More training and will you have a dog that will at least sense there is something wrong. No. Will you know if he will even bite in a given situation? No
> this didn't just impact chris, now everyone is looking down at their dog .....wondering.


lol :-d


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## Bob Scott

Don Turnipseed said:


> I can't imaging how many are looking at the viscious, bite trained dog laying beside them this week and wondering, what will it do in the same situation. I think this may call for more traing to regain that sense of security that has been lost. More training and will you have a dog that will at least sense there is something wrong. No. Will you know if he will even bite in a given situation? No
> This didn't just impact Chris, now everyone is looking down at their dog .....wondering.



Only if it's important to you to have a protection dog. :grin: :wink:


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## Becky Shilling

Harmonica? Two words. Rick Estrin.


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## Kristen Cabe

Don Turnipseed said:


> This didn't just impact Chris, now everyone is looking down at their dog .....wondering.


I'm not. At least not when it comes to one of mine. I have no doubt in my mind about her. If you think otherwise, I invite you over _anytime_ to test it. :mrgreen:


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## Chris Michalek

Kristen Cabe said:


> I'm not. At least not when it comes to one of mine. I have no doubt in my mind about her. If you think otherwise, I invite you over _anytime_ to test it. :mrgreen:



Kristen, sorry but you're overconfidence is dumb. 

I had no doubt too but it happened and it could happen to you too. With six dogs in the house I still think it was a fluke but at least holes in my confidence and overall home security have been exposed and I have since corrected the situation. 

We had a proper storm on saturday night and couldn't train any scenarios. We're planning to try again tomorrow so we'll see what happens.


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## Kristen Cabe

Call me dumb if you wantl. Like I said, anyone who wants to test it is free to come try. I'm speaking from actual experience with this particular dog - not just what I think might happen.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So one of the "real dog" people show up with a bat, and then what happens ?? If a man is not afraid of your dog, he is gonna snatch it up and beat it's head till it cracks.


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## Kristen Cabe

So what's the point? They'd do that regardless.


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## Chris Michalek

Kristen Cabe said:


> Call me dumb if you wantl. Like I said, anyone who wants to test it is free to come try. I'm speaking from actual experience with this particular dog - not just what I think might happen.


are you saying so because your dog bites "for real" yeah so do two of mine. 

I think if a person can get in the house with six loose dogs then it's not the dogs, it's the environment they live in. It not like my dogs let them in, didn't chase and wanted to be buddies with the bad guy/ They did alert when they knew the person was there it was just later than I prefer. I had way too many distractions going on. 

Do you watch TV? What if the dog is at your feet or laying next to the TV? Would he alert to what would be otherwise normal sounds in the house?


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## Kristen Cabe

Chris Michalek said:


> are you saying so because your dog bites "for real" yeah so do two of mine.


Because you _train_ "for real" or because they have actually bitten people other than helpers/decoys? I've never done any hidden sleeve/suit/muzzle work with this particular dog. She's just very civil, and she doesn't give a damn.




> I think if a person can get in the house with six loose dogs then it's not the dogs, it's the environment they live in. It not like my dogs let them in, didn't chase and wanted to be buddies with the bad guy/ They did alert when they knew the person was there it was just later than I prefer. I had way too many distractions going on.


I understand that. 



> Do you watch TV? What if the dog is at your feet or laying next to the TV? Would he alert to what would be otherwise normal sounds in the house?


Since Adam has been gone to Ft. Bragg, the TV hasn't been turned on except for when I turn on the bedroom TV for about 30min so I can fall asleep. I don't have time for watching TV. I have my three dogs, one of which I'm training every day in some form or fashion, in hopes of competing this fall or next spring with, along with the three to four rescue dogs that are up for adoption, that need to be played with, walked, and fed each evening. By the time I get done doing dogs, it's time for bed. 

Also, my house is a box. It has a very open floorplan and is only 1200 square feet, so I'd know if someone were trying to get in, whether I had dogs or not. :wink: The dog I'm speaking of doesn't alert to what might be normal sounds, but one of my others (not a shepherd, and not a biting dog) will alert to things, so she's like the early warning system. I can guarantee that if someone _did_ manage to get into my house without one of the dogs knowing about it, which would be difficult due to the layout of my house, the dog in question would not be one of the ones alluded to in previous posts that would ignore the person as long as they did not do something to 'trigger' her. All the 'trigger' she would need would be seeing or hearing them speak, and that's regardless of whether Adam or I am home or not. We've had several very close calls with her, so we put her completely away in a bedroom whenever we know we're going to have company, and she stays there for the duration of the visit. I also cannot have someone come over to take care of her if we aren't going to be home in time to let her out or whatever, or if we go away for the weekend and cannot take her with us. I have to board her with my trainer.


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## Chris Michalek

Kristen Cabe said:


> All the 'trigger' she would need would be seeing or hearing them speak, and that's regardless of whether Adam or I am home or not. We've had several very close calls with her, so we put her completely away in a bedroom whenever we know we're going to have company, and she stays there for the duration of the visit. I also cannot have someone come over to take care of her if we aren't going to be home in time to let her out or whatever, or if we go away for the weekend and cannot take her with us. I have to board her with my trainer.


its the same way with me and a couple of my dogs.when we go away my four big dogs have to boarded with one of my dog buddies because they won't let other people in the house. The Pugs are happy to see anybody.

I generally can't have house guests unless its family. There was one of my students who came to study with me for a week. I let him stay in my guest room. My Rott slept outside his door and wouldn't let him leave the room. The guy would open the door in the middle of the night for the bathroom, only to be met with a growl which would then alert all of the other dogs. After the first night I have to keep all of the dogs in my bedroom in case he need to piss at night.

Speaking of your "trigger" event. That's all I needed too and that's exactly where your overconfidence comes in. You can't assume somebody can/will be seen or heard as that goes against thievery 101.


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## Anna Kasho

It is different at night. When my brother was here on break (typical college student, night owl), he tried sneaking to the fridge for a midnight snack... Cyko would explode barking at the little unfamiliar noises. Between my moluccan's screaming "Help! Robbers!" and all the dogs going nuts, it only took a few tries to cure him of nighttime wandering.

During the day, he could come and go as he pleased. Though he and the dogs did not interact, they were either put away or under control with me. Just to be on the safe side.


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## Becky Shilling

> moluccan's screaming "Help! Robbers!"



Oh my Lord! Having lived with an Umbrella for several years, I know this scene. Louder than any alarm ever made.


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## Rebecca Samoska

Becky Shilling said:


> Oh my Lord! Having lived with an Umbrella for several years, I know this scene. Louder than any alarm ever made.


That's too funny! I too can relate to that, in fact my dogs are usually behind my Macaw in announcing cars pulling up!


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## Michelle Reusser

Oh Jesus, I hate parrot birds. 

I quit wondering about what my dogs will do, put a lock on my bedroom door, a phone in the room and all my guns are in the closet in there. I'll be locked in that room dialing 911, while I'm loading my gun of choice. If I really want my dogs support I can open the window and let him jump in there with me from his kennel. My dogs don't live inside, so I only half sleep with one ear open. Been that way since my daughter was born.


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## Jerry Lyda

I sleep heavy, been that way while aboard ship listening to jet aircraft land and take off. 

I just look for bodys in the mornings. LOL


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## Don Turnipseed

Well, I am here to tell y'all....I got no less than twenty maneaters out there. There if five yards and they cover every side of the house. The house is the hub. Designed it that a way because of Ruby Ridge. No one is gonna sneak up on me. Got a fully loaded 44 hanging by the door, got a fully loaded 45/70 leanin against the liquor cabinet, Got a 12 ga in the hall, A .45 HK compact sittin here by the keyboard and a .300 win Mag an arms length away. Got heads mounted everywhere cause I understand that spooks people sneaking around. Y'all ought to see them people grab aholt of there kids when they come to pick up a pup. They tell them kids not to touch anything....and they really do watch them for a change. Gotta luv it.


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## maggie fraser

Don Turnipseed said:


> Well, I am here to tell y'all....I got no less than twenty maneaters out there. There if five yards and they cover every side of the house. The house is the hub. Designed it that a way because of Ruby Ridge. No one is gonna sneak up on me. Got a fully loaded 44 hanging by the door, got a fully loaded 45/70 leanin against the liquor cabinet, Got a 12 ga in the hall, A .45 HK compact sittin here by the keyboard and a .300 win Mag an arms length away. Got heads mounted everywhere cause I understand that spooks people sneaking around. Y'all ought to see them people grab aholt of there kids when they come to pick up a pup. They tell them kids not to touch anything....and they really do watch them for a change. Gotta luv it.


 
:lol::lol::lol:

I don't suppose you'll get too many folks wanting to use your bathroom neither?


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## Mark Baldassarre

Don Turnipseed said:


> Well, I am here to tell y'all....I got no less than twenty maneaters out there. There if five yards and they cover every side of the house. The house is the hub. Designed it that a way because of Ruby Ridge. No one is gonna sneak up on me. Got a fully loaded 44 hanging by the door, got a fully loaded 45/70 leanin against the liquor cabinet, Got a 12 ga in the hall, A .45 HK compact sittin here by the keyboard and a .300 win Mag an arms length away. Got heads mounted everywhere cause I understand that spooks people sneaking around. Y'all ought to see them people grab aholt of there kids when they come to pick up a pup. They tell them kids not to touch anything....and they really do watch them for a change. Gotta luv it.


 
Don,

20 man eaters[-X?


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## Don Turnipseed

The whole thing was a joke Mark....but....anytime you want to try to get over the fence at night in a full suit....I am pretty sure they'll give you a hand since there is a pack in every yard. Not exactly a single dog scenario. Come on over. I'll buy if you can convince them it is just a game.


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## Don Turnipseed

Besides, I forgot you think dogs that grab bears and hogs by the face and actually sustain a lot of damage for the fun of it are going to be afraid of you. I might even pay your fare to get here but I do get the vidio rights. The question is, how do I get 4 to 6 dogs off of you if you are wrong?


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## Don Turnipseed

maggie fraser said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> I don't suppose you'll get too many folks wanting to use your bathroom neither?


Maggie, you may not beleive this but there was an outhouse out front not that long ago. I gave it to a friend of mine because he only had a one holer and his family was gittin bigger. Didn't have heat here for the first 7 years. Got a wood stove now and I am as happy as a pig in .... !


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## maggie fraser

Don Turnipseed said:


> Maggie, you may not beleive this but there was an outhouse out front not that long ago. I gave it to a friend of mine because he only had a one holer and his family was gittin bigger. Didn't have heat here for the first 7 years. Got a wood stove now and I am as happy as a pig in .... !


 
Ahh.... nuthin quite like a woodstove now is there, it surely does help keep the damp out a little and is real handy for doin a little cookin too. :-D


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## Mark Baldassarre

Don,

There's a world of difference between a dog who's willing to fight animals, and one willing to fight a man. There's also a gigantic difference between those dogs willing to fight alone, compared to those who'll only do it with the support of another dog or pack.

If I wasn't on the other side of the country...I'd love to test your dogs. But I wouldn't make that trip just to see if they'd do SOMETHING _as a pack, on their own property_.
If I were to make that trip, I'd have my own motivations to find another suitable Airedale for myself. A test like you're talking about wouldn't show me what I'd need to see in a PP prospect.

Maybe someday we can hook up & do some legit man working tests on your stock.


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## Don Turnipseed

In this case Mark, the thread is "Home Invasion". I take that to mean you are going to deal with the animals in their territory...not on a soccer field somewhere. If you are a home invader, you have to deal with how many dogs are in that territory you are invading. Bit of a difference....but that is the scenario as I see it.


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## Mark Baldassarre

Don,

I can understand where you're coming from.
I'm actually looking at it from the perspective of the perp breaching the door or window of the house and the type of dog required to defeat the bad guy. So, my idea of a home invasion is a little different [where the perp actually gets in the home, or is physically stopped by the dog while trying]. IMO, a dog who will fight on a soccer field or anywhere else... is a better candidate for dealing w/my kind of home invasion.


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## fred karlsson

All intruders are not loud and threatening, you should be able to switch him on without a struggle. I would also practise send off ( especially if some one tries to pick your kids up). controling your dog off leach is also good since it is not probable that you have him on leach when the shit hits the fan.

Testing your dog in day time is good since I found it that darkness only gets the dog sharper.

Female non agressive decoys are also a good test.


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## Gerry Grimwood

fred karlsson said:


> Female non agressive decoys are also a good test.


Are you serious ?? What about people in wheelchairs and retards ?


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## Chris Michalek

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Are you serious ?? What about people in wheelchairs and retards ?



not sure Jeff wants to do PPD with a schH dog. The two things he hates the most.


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## Chris Michalek

fred karlsson said:


> All intruders are not loud and threatening, you should be able to switch him on without a struggle. I would also practise send off ( especially if some one tries to pick your kids up). controling your dog off leach is also good since it is not probable that you have him on leach when the shit hits the fan.
> 
> Testing your dog in day time is good since I found it that darkness only gets the dog sharper.
> 
> Female non agressive decoys are also a good test.



I'm not worried anymore Fred, with six dogs the pack mentality will kick in. I have a POS fear biting female who would be very quick to bite somebody in the house and then would be all over once the boys got active.


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## Adam Rawlings

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Are you serious ?? What about people in wheelchairs and retards ?


Are you volunteering?:lol:


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## fred karlsson

Yes Gerry I am serious

Home intrusion is a very serious crime, if someone approach you in a friendly way and declare bad intentions the dog will not pick it up, thats when you need to control the dogs agression. All burglars are not crackheads acting weird and abnormally.


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## Gerry Grimwood

fred karlsson said:


> All burglars are not crackheads acting weird and abnormally.


Some burglars are kids, do you train for that scenario ?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

The guy lives in Spain. I think the rules are a bit different. : )

This home invasion thing is all fine and dandy, but lets be honest, more than likely it is gonna be a kid stealing money for pot or MORE BEER, and he will more than likely get past the Rott and Mal and they will catch him ON THE WAY OUT.

Then his parents sue, and ooooops, there goes the dog, and oooooops there goes the house.

Stop being a freak. Get over it, you had your house wide open, the valuables in plain site, and music way too loud.

Dumb ass. =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>

Nice that you got every idiot freak PPD moron to respond with all the " there coming to get me" dumbass scenarios.

Bottom line, if there is someone out there that is a professional, and wants to get you, the dog and you are dead.

However, even though you play the most ANNOYING instrument in an ensemble, I really doubt that anyone is out to get you, just your easily accessable purse.

HA HA.

thats for your Jeff's a retard in a wheelchair shit. :lol:


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## Chris McDonald

thats for your Jeff's a retard in a wheelchair shit. :lol:


That’s right he’s not in a wheelchair


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## fred karlsson

Have to check if I am in the right forum


*Personal Protection Dogs* 
Questions and discussion specifically relating to dogs trained for \"*Real World\*" personal protection.

You have a dog trained to do his job and you worry about someone get bitten if you get attacked...........WOW why not buy a cat instead?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Or, you can just get a gun. Fred, the last thing you should ever do is put your safety in the abilities of a dog.

Chris, mama says stupid is as stupid does.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Adam Rawlings said:


> Are you volunteering?:lol:


Sure, why not.

PM me your address, I'll be in Vancouver.....when you least expect it :lol: get some diapers.


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## Adam Rawlings

Sure, but it will be ear plugs if I have to listen to your moronic chatter.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Geez, some of these PPD people are just wound too tight...besides, how could I chatter when your dog is ripping me limb from limb


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## Chris Michalek

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Chris, mama says stupid is as stupid does.


I don't care about what mama says. I'm a fat guy so just gimmie the ****ing box of chocolates.


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## ann schnerre

just so i'm on the record here: i ALSO say that what goes around, comes around. can't escape karma


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## Adam Rawlings

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Geez, some of these PPD people are just wound too tight...besides, how could I chatter when your dog is ripping me limb from limb


We are wound tight because everyone is out to get us. My PPD wouldn't rip you limb from limb he's a gentle lab, but even if he could, I bet you would stlil find a way to make some dumb ass comments.LOL.:-$

All in fun Gerry.


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