# X-RAY NOW OR IN 4 MONTHS. URGENT.



## Rashmi Kumar (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi guys,

I have an issue here-
I have scheduled X-Ray for my 17 months old male GSD, Matrix on OCt10, 2006. 
Brief history behind it as he had started limping on his hind left leg.  He is fine today  so I dont know if I should go with the x-ray now or wait till his 2 year birthday, which will be on Feb 14, 2007. The limp lasted only 4 days. I am not going to think anything worst now, but will keep his exercise normal not extremewill not make him jump. As I did not do his PRE, I am not sure about anything. I saw Matrix when he was with Will R. and he was good. Ran, jumped stairsHe was almost 1 year old then. Can you guys advise if I should go ahead with the x-rays now or should wait another 4 months?

Few facts-
1.	Since he was few months old, I have noticed that his hind left leg has been little weaker but he does not hop, he runs and walks well. I think that he may have incurred an injury at the breeder as a puppy but I am not aware of it. :x  

2.	This time the limp happened because he slipped on wet grass chasing after his ball. The slip was not that bad but whenever he slips, I think that he gets uncomfortable in this left back leg. 

3.	Also, almost a year back, he had some kind of injury on the same leg and it was swollen, the vet could not find anything specific. (He speculated a bug bite) He gave him some anti- bacterial medicine and he was okay in a few days. This injury occurred when I had left him with the Breeder- k9union.com for 2 weeks as my house was under construction. I was told that Matrix used to run a lot with older dogs. Anyway that is past and I cannot undo it. :evil: 

4.	I think he could also be going thru PANO as he had shown clinical signs for it few months back.

What do you think? :?: :?: :?: 

Thanks,--- Rashmi


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Now, if it is really wrong better to know now than in february. If he has sprained a muscle or so, he will be okay or better on october 10 th.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Rashmi...
If getting your pup an XRay now means you won't eat, or pay your children's school or something like that, then don't get it. Otherwise, I can't see why not. In other words, go get it done!


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2006)

Rashmi,

Sounds identical to Caleb's Pano saga. However, the only real advantage to putting off the xray would be so he could be OFA certified (must be 24mos). 

As a side note; if you can swim him somewhere for at least several weeks prior to the xrays, it may help rebuild some of the muscle that may have been lost w/the Pano. Caleb had such a horrible case of Pano (didn't know it until he FINALLY started to limp :x ) that the muscle atrophied before he showed any signs of discomfort, and showed up on the xrays as subluxation b/c the left muscle was soooo much weaker than the right.

I was sure Greg had broken my dog, b/c he started to limp very suddenly after tracking. 2 vets said he'd torn his ACL. Took him to a 3rd specialist who said "congratulations; he is still growing :wink: ." An anti-inflammatory did the trick, and ruled out a real problem with the hip. I was thinking he was too old, but he'd had Pano in the front leg before, and it tends to move around a bit before finally going away. 

Soooo, maybe try a day or 2 on an anti-inflammatory (NOT a painkiller) and see if it goes away? If it does, Pano is the likely culprit. If not, get those films. JMO. GOOD LUCK!


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## Rashmi Kumar (Apr 7, 2006)

Hi guys,

I had to get him X-rayed as he as limping here and there and I wanted to know. u]* Four things-
Results: No one is 100% sure at this time....so I am not going to talk about it. :| I will keep you guys posted soon. 

1. Does anyone know that if I can scan the X-RAY FILMS (they are actual films not on a disc)? Will the films be destroyed? I have made copies of the original. I have never scan X-ray films  

2. I started him on Cosequin. What other supplement(s) I should/ can give him? He has been on Fish oil and E-oil but want to change it. I know in the past there have been talks about giving proper Fish oil along with joint supplements but I am not able to gather all the information. The vet that X-rayed him suggested these two along with Cosequin:-
a) Welactin by Nutramax (this one only has Omega 3) What about 6??
b) Ecisoderm by Dermapet (cant find this one) 
Perhaps it is Echinoderm - please see the following link on Echinoderm: http://homevet.com/osc/product_info.php?cPath=3&products_id=13
These are it's ingredients: Beef USDA, Sea Cucumber Extract (25% mucopolysaccharides) MSM (methylsulfonylmethane 99.9%), Glucosamine HCL (99.9%), Omega 3 (fish oil) Omega 6 (borage oil)

3. I used to give him Mega Pet Daily- http://leerburg.com/46.htm. Can I give start him back on it along with Cosequin and Fish oil supplement? 

4. Vitamin C- Am I right is understanding that Vitamin C is very important along with joint supplements? Is yes, any suggestion on this?

Thanks,

Rashmi*


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## Rashmi Kumar (Apr 7, 2006)

One more thing- I know the advantages of Adequin but as he has started Cosequin, I will wait on it.

Rashmi


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Welactin is fish oil. I believe it's a brand sold only by vets (and would be a source of revenue to the vet).

Dogs generally get a lot of Omega 6 in their food, and if your dog is on raw, then he probably has lots of Omega 6 from his food alone. The Omega 3s are the trickier ones to get, and, for dogs, fish oil is the best source.

Omega 3s in fish oil (salmon oil) are an excellent anti-inflammation agent whether it's another brand or the brand the vet pushes.

That supplement with Sea Cucumber Extract (25% mucopolysaccharides) MSM (methylsulfonylmethane 99.9%), Glucosamine HCL (99.9%), Omega 3 (fish oil), and Omega 6 (borage oil) contains several beneficial agents, such as MSM, Omega 3s (again), and glucosamine. Sea Cucumber is a source of chondroitin.

Cosequin is glucosamine and chondroitin.

Mega Pet Daily is a daily vitamin/mineral supplement -- no harm as long as you don't double up on any ingredients by giving the RDA in another supplement too.

Dogs (unlike humans) manufacture their own Vitamin C, but extra for dogs with a health challenge is probably a good idea. The theory of Ester C directly causing joint health enhancement is still being discussed and researched. Here's a good overview of Ester C and HD:
http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0039.htm

One point here is that some of these supplements are the same thing under different names.

Is the vet giving you this list? I would go over it with him and ask what components of each item are the ones he wants the dog to have. You can then avoid expensive duplication.

Also, about the fish oil, I personally would prefer to buy bottles of the best distilled fish oil and measure it out on the food, thereby knowing its quality and the amount I was giving, which isn't easy with proprietary formulas.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Welactin is fish oil. I believe it's a brand sold only by vets (and would be a source of revenue to the vet)......


OTOH, it may be an excellent brand and his recommendation may have nothing to do with where you buy it.

I'm getting cynical.


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## Rashmi Kumar (Apr 7, 2006)

Thanks Connie.

So this is what I am going to give him. Tell me if it over doing or not.
1. Cosequin ( he is on 3 daily for next 6 weeks)
2. Fish Oil either from http://www.timberwolforganics.com/Pet_Omega_Oils_s/17.htm
or 
Just regular Fish OIl with Omega 3
3. Mega Pet Daily
4. Ester C 500mg TO START.

Am I doubling anything?

Rashmi


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## Rashmi Kumar (Apr 7, 2006)

Jenni Williams was mentioning about Adequin.

Any inputs? I know she had mentioned that her dog was on Adequin and Fish Oil.

Rashmi


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Rashmi Kumar said:


> Thanks Connie.
> 
> So this is what I am going to give him. Tell me if it over doing or not.
> 1. Cosequin ( he is on 3 daily for next 6 weeks)
> ...


Fish oil is full of Omega 3s........... no matter what brand. The EFAs in fish are more Omega 3s than any other EFAs.

Yes, I think you're doing fine, based on not knowing what the diagnosis is.

These are safe supplements, IMO.

When you have a diagnosis, if you want to post back and update and talk about other avenues, please do. He is not in pain, right, that you know of? Also, if you would like some Adequan sites, I can give them to you. (Adequan is a g.a.g.s., a relative of glucosamine.) 

Are you seeing a specialist?


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## Rashmi Kumar (Apr 7, 2006)

Thanks Connie for your inputs. I really appreciate your concern here. 

I went to see one specialist but he was also not 100% sure and wanted to do more x-rays. I am not going to put my pup thru 5 hospital visits when he is not showing clinical signs now.

He was limping here and there so I went and got him x-rayed. These vets sometimes want you and your puppy to fall sick so that they can make money. WELL, the exception to the rule so far has been my regular Vet, according to him there is no need to run around and get 2nd and third x-rays at this point now when the pup is not showing clinical signs.

The specialist and two Vets said the following:- :evil: :roll: :?: 
No problems in the HIP. The Knee X-rays are not good to make a diagnosis. 
Specialist said:- could be PANO/ ARTHRTICS, needs more x-rays and more office visits
One Vet said: some bull crap that I wont even mention 
Other Vet that he cannot make any diagnosis on the knee

So here I am really frustrated :evil: and doing what I think I can do .

Hey, Connie- Can I feed him Alfa Alfa along with Ester C or either or should be better.

Rashmi


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## Rashmi Kumar (Apr 7, 2006)

Hey Connie,

Can you give me your number again? With job change, e-mail change, I have misplaced it somewhere. 

you can pm me and or e-mail me at [email protected].

Thanks,

Rashmi


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Rashmi, this is a reach, but why don't you call a vet school close to you and ask them if they read films? Get an opinion on the films you have. I'm lucky in that my vet sends all their films to vet radiologists at the U of M for a second/third opinion if there are concerns...saved me a lot of grief in my case...you are close to some fine vet schools in NY, call 'em up. Tufts is in Massachussetts...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Rashmi Kumar said:


> Hey Connie,
> 
> Can you give me your number again? With job change, e-mail change, I have misplaced it somewhere. ......


Sent it via PM.


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

Rashmi, I wound not go to Adiquine until you have a more definitive Dx. & one that is far graver than has yet been eluded to at this point in time. It is not, as far as I know, available OTC. It needs to be acquired from a vet. It is quite a bit heavyer duty not to mention quite pricey & needs to be injected monthly. At least that is the case in horses. It may be different in dogs.


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