# Nara Holds Illegal Trial



## Jerry Cudahy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCmP9F23AD0&feature=email 

No fence, only three blinds that are falling down. Trailer on the field. Dogs trained on field with decoys then trialed.

Bull Shitski


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## Geoff Empey

I'm actually shocked to see that video .. 

What I can see right off the bat. 
_
1.2.1* A club that wishes to host a trial must take the greatest care in preparation and be sure not to neglect any detail*. (Chapitre 1, p. 6, Organisation des concours) 

1.2.4 The trial must take place on a regulation field having a minimum area of 2000 square 
meters. The length must at least 65 meters and the width must be at least 30 meters. 
The field should be as open as possible, with no brush or shrubs that could hide the view 
of the action from the judge, handler and deputy judge (this restriction obviously does 
not include the blinds). *The field must never be too hard – neither cobbled nor paved. It 
must be ensured that there is no object or condition on the field which could cause injury* to the dogs. (Chapitre 1, p. 6, Organisation des concours)

_"Blinds set up on a running track? A trailer on the field? Hurdles holding up the field's only 3 blinds?" _

1.2.6.5 A field containing a moveable palisade, hurdle and broad jump and *at least six* blinds. (Chaptre 1, p. 7, Organisation des concours) _ 

I don't understand why this would happen. You know it doesn't take much more effort to just do it right in the first place. 

BTW nice dog and nice handling of him by the handler in the video.


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## Chris Michalek

Jerry Cudahy said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCmP9F23AD0&feature=email
> 
> No fence, only three blinds that are falling down. Trailer on the field. Dogs trained on field with decoys then trialed.
> 
> Bull Shitski



That's not accurate. I was there, any other bullshit you care to make up? It is accurate to say the blinds were absolute crap because they were makeshift blinds but that shouldn't affect the dog.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Duh, that is the same location that was nixed for the Nara Championship last year, correct.


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## Geoff Empey

I don't think that was the same field Jerry. The other field was in So-Cal I understand.


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## Jerry Cudahy

The So Cal field was the replacement field.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Chris Michalek said:


> That's not accurate. I was there, any other bullshit you care to make up? It is accurate to say the blinds were absolute crap because they were makeshift blinds but that shouldn't affect the dog.


 
OK, u were there.

How many blinds stood on the field????


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## Geoff Empey

Jerry Cudahy said:


> The So Cal field was the replacement field.


I understand that both fields were both in Southern California ..


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## Chris Michalek

Jerry Cudahy said:


> OK, u were there.
> 
> How many blinds stood on the field????


There were supposed to be wooden blinds, like the one in the video but five of them didn't get there for some reason. I made two of the five BS blinds using PVC pipe and taps from Lowes. 

I KNOW there were six total because I helped build them. 

I didn't stay for the whole trial


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## Jerry Cudahy

LOL Geoff, who knows anymore. It is so convoluted.

Although I am having a blast picking and cording a tune on the Taylor because of it.


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## Kadi Thingvall

The field was odd, but it was legal. There were 6 blinds, but they were not in the normal pattern. However, there are no rules stating the pattern has to be 3 on each side. A couple did fall down due to wind, someone went down to set them back up. The field met the size requirements, it was way over the minimum size requirements actually. The rule about unsafe surfaces specifically says hard ones like cobbled or pavement, the running track is not a hard surface it's made of chewed up rubber that is glued down in some way. The blinds were made to go on rebar pounded into the ground, but the rules say they have to be within 5 meters of the fence, so moving them to the grass as they were made to be wasn't an option. The legs on the hurdles are no different then the legs on a palisade, so I don't see an injury risk there that is any more or less on almost every trial field out there. There was a trailer on the field, I'm not sure where it came from since it wasn't there the day before, but it was far enough away from the main part of the field that nobody went close enough to it for it to be a problem. And other then looking bad, I don't see a difference between that and the secretarys table setup with an ez-up and such in terms of safety. The host club didn't have the jumps or blinds at the field until the morning of the trial, so I made the decision to allow open field for a couple of hours before the trial started. Nothing illegal about an open field, I suppose I could have refused to allow it, but IMO that wouldn't have been fair to the competitors who are used to having an open field option, and especially to the FRII dog since that blind search could have been HUGE. This was not the field intended for the NARA Championships, that was in SoCal along with the replacement. This was actually a replacement field for the one originally intended for this trial, I don't remember why but they lost their first field at the last minute. I think I've addressed all the concerns so far, if anyone has more, or just wants to complain, you can contact me privately or I'll be back later after I take the dogs to the beach.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Where are the blinds???? Where is the fence???? It is not the problem of the club so much as the problem of the JUDGE 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQibMiFCeNI


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## Kadi Thingvall

I don't have time to watch the video, right now, but the fence went all the way around the perimeter of the field, on the outside of the track. The blinds were along the edge of the field on the ends and along the side the spectators were on. The rulebook only covers minimum size requirements, holding trials in a stadium is not unusual, and the blinds don't have to be 3 x 3, even though they usually are.


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## Al Curbow

I see the fence. Taylor??????????? Martin man!!!!!!!


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## Jerry Cudahy

Al Curbow said:


> I see the fence. Taylor??????????? Martin man!!!!!!!


 One day Santa will Martinize my Habit.


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## Al Curbow

I have a 00028 for sale


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## Jeanne Meldrim

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Where are the blinds???? Where is the fence???? It is not the problem of the club so much as the problem of the JUDGE
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQibMiFCeNI



The fence can be seen very clearly in the video you posted.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Al Curbow said:


> I have a 00028 for sale


 
No dis but my next guitar will be a large body.


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## Geoff Empey

Kadi Thingvall said:


> The field was odd, but it was legal. There were 6 blinds, but they were not in the normal pattern. However, there are no rules stating the pattern has to be 3 on each side. A couple did fall down due to wind, someone went down to set them back up. The field met the size requirements, it was way over the minimum size requirements actually. The rule about unsafe surfaces specifically says hard ones like cobbled or pavement, the running track is not a hard surface it's made of chewed up rubber that is glued down in some way. The blinds were made to go on rebar pounded into the ground, but the rules say they have to be within 5 meters of the fence, so moving them to the grass as they were made to be wasn't an option. The legs on the hurdles are no different then the legs on a palisade, so I don't see an injury risk there that is any more or less on almost every trial field out there. There was a trailer on the field, I'm not sure where it came from since it wasn't there the day before, but it was far enough away from the main part of the field that nobody went close enough to it for it to be a problem. And other then looking bad, I don't see a difference between that and the secretarys table setup with an ez-up and such in terms of safety. The host club didn't have the jumps or blinds at the field until the morning of the trial, so I made the decision to allow open field for a couple of hours before the trial started. Nothing illegal about an open field, I suppose I could have refused to allow it, but IMO that wouldn't have been fair to the competitors who are used to having an open field option, and especially to the FRII dog since that blind search could have been HUGE.


I understand the logistics of pulling off a trial is huge and it sounds like the club had lots of wrenches thrown into the works. It's a hard job at the best of times even when the stars and moon are aligned. 

Though appearances mean everything and saying that the field looks odd is an understatement. 

A blind search that consists of 2 blinds in the start area with a third blind 30m down field looks more like a training exercise than anything else with no blinds on the other side of the field, sorry to say. 

I pulled this link off your website Kadi it shows a suggested field setup. _http://www.dantero.com/images/field.jpg_ I know the rulebook doesn't say about where the 6 blinds should be but to me it's a given the field should be set up symmetrically. 

As per the rule about blind placement in conjunction with the fence. _1.9.2.2 The blinds must be comprised of two or three panels at least 2 meters tall and 1.2 meters wide (1.1 meters wide for three panels) and fixed at right angles. They must be placed along the perimeter of the field with the exit side facing the fence at a minimum of 2 meters from the fence and a maximum of 5 meters to enable the decoy to escape unhindered. The blinds must be positioned such that the dog cannot see the decoy until it arrives at the blind. (Chaptre 1, p. 9, Cachettes) _



Kadi Thingvall said:


> The blinds were made to go on rebar pounded into the ground, but the rules say they have to be within 5 meters of the fence, so moving them to the grass as they were made to be wasn't an option.


This would've been as easy as having the host club rent some temporary fence, construction road barriers or even at worse to use caution tape and stakes to mark the perimeter of the trial field. 

re: the hard rubber glued down that made up the track, it is an irregular surface that indeed will injure paw pads. I actually talked specifically with a French Judge this past year about using artificial turf and surfaces and he said no way should that be used for any trial. 

Open field. This is the rule as I know you are aware of it. I was not there so only the Judge and participants know for sure. _1.10.2.2 Once the field is marked, no dog (competitor or not) may enter the field until the moment of its participation in the trial. (Chapitre 1, p. 12, Présentation) _

Like I said appearances mean everything. I wish everyone who participates in Ringsport success, am just giving constructive critism not trying to bust anyones nuts but just calling it the way I see it.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Just the few blinds alone were dangerous to Dog, Decoy and anyone else they would blow down on.

That really sucks.

Excuses, bad excuses


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## Aron Paul

these posts are the reason i chose not to do ring. i think the sport is great but seems like a bunch of tight asses always complaing and moaning over everything.people posting just to complain, train your dogs and compete, tittle or find out what needs work but seems like people r complaining about everythiing from judges to feilds to decoys. i mean not all in this post but over time all ive seen is shit throwing its a shame. i thought it was supposed to b about dogs and training. i think people just like to complain


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## Aron Paul

if blinds blowing over r that high risk, it might be time to give up dogs!


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## Jerry Cudahy

Kadi, you should know better.

A Judge and BOD Member.

Ya'll are simply handing it to ARF.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

It is not always shit throwing, sometimes it is just calling someone on BS, or making people aware of things that are not right.

I don't know if it is a rule, but the club hosting the trial had to know that the field they used is inappropriate for a ring trial. That I know is pretty clear in the rules. 

The thing that makes it suck so bad is that the competitor trained his dog, and then was not given a proper field to show his training off. Kadi knows what a field looks like, and should have called the thing off until they could find a place suitable for a trial.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Aron Paul said:


> if blinds blowing over r that high risk, it might be time to give up dogs!


 
Sorry but u do not understand what a decoy does in that blind.

As a former trial decoy I do know and that was dangerous.

Guess u would not be pissed if it came down on your dog and he decided no more blinds.

or

How about tripping on the hurdles that held the blind up.

duh


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## Jerry Cudahy

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> It is not always shit throwing, sometimes it is just calling someone on BS, or making people aware of things that are not right.
> 
> I don't know if it is a rule, but the club hosting the trial had to know that the field they used is inappropriate for a ring trial. That I know is pretty clear in the rules.
> 
> The thing that makes it suck so bad is that the competitor trained his dog, and then was not given a proper field to show his training off. Kadi knows what a field looks like, and should have called the thing off until they could find a place suitable for a trial.


BINGO, DITTO

Your right Jeff, after all the effort to go to trial and to find out it was incorrect.

Trial was Illegal and all the persons who did trial are in for a shock.


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## Bob Solimini

Jeanne Meldrim said:


> The fence can be seen very clearly in the video you posted.


So if I have 20 acres of land fenced in that is good enough for a Ring trial??? I dont think so! Yes there was a fence, but ANYONE who knows about Ring Sport (especially a Judge) would know that field was not set up correctly and the fening is not sufficient since it is way to large! There are trailers on the field and NOTHING stopping a dog from climbing on them (like a fence) and getting injured! 
When in your life have you EVER seen a Ring trial take place on a track?? Kadi as usual you threw the rulebook out the window and did as you please!
anyone interested in playing in "ringsport lite" go straight to NARA!=D> Good job Kadi way to promote the sport and your organization!


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## Bob Solimini

Aron Paul said:


> these posts are the reason i chose not to do ring. i think the sport is great but seems like a bunch of tight asses always complaing and moaning over everything.people posting just to complain, train your dogs and compete, tittle or find out what needs work but seems like people r complaining about everythiing from judges to feilds to decoys. i mean not all in this post but over time all ive seen is shit throwing its a shame. i thought it was supposed to b about dogs and training. i think people just like to complain


 
Aaron, you are missing the point.. this is not about whining and complaining!!! This is about rules and regulations. You compete in PSA (assuming by your description) wouldnt you be upset if they did something in a competition that was illegal? What if you broke your ass training a blind search and then other people go to a trial and there is only 3 blinds and the search only requires the dog to go by 1 blind and into the blind with the decoy? It creates unfair conditons! In Ring Sport you should expect MORE!
By the way, I like having a tight ass... LOL Guys like Jeff O have an ass like the Holland Tunnel, maybe you prefer that?:twisted: LOL... just joking!


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## Jerry Cudahy

Kadi explain this illegal activity u allowed.

Things clearly visible in the video that I can see as illegal are 

1. The key to the long jump must be solid color (not white) with a white border 10cm wide.

2. No fence around the Ring field

3. Not enough blinds

4. There was no marking (on the track) for the departure of the search. Clearly stated in the rules!

5. There was no 5m mark behind the blind for the handler to go to for the search and clearly stated in the rules

6. The field must never be too hard – neither cobbled nor paved (it was paved with a recycled rubber). It must be ensured that there is no object or condition on the field which could cause injury to the dogs. (like a trailer)

7. The dog runs by the spectators during the blind search (again no fence).

U should be curbed.


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## Bob Solimini

I forgot to post this earlier.... I want to say this is NOTHING to do with the hosting club! If they are a new club hosting their first trial, congrats! BUT someone should have assisted you in what is required to host a trial! They should have explained how the field should be set up! This falls solely on the shoulders of the NARA BoD and the Judge of the trial!!!!


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## Jerry Cudahy

Here is the most important point.

Newbies are being screwed over with BS in Nara.

NARA has become Newbie Screw Over Cental.


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## Jerry Cudahy

BTW Mods, keep this one alive


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## Jerry Cudahy

Here is the real deal in France. U decide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blj2RsPh8eI


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## Aron Paul

Bob Solimini said:


> Aaron, you are missing the point.. this is not about whining and complaining!!! This is about rules and regulations. You compete in PSA (assuming by your description) wouldnt you be upset if they did something in a competition that was illegal? What if you broke your ass training a blind search and then other people go to a trial and there is only 3 blinds and the search only requires the dog to go by 1 blind and into the blind with the decoy? It creates unfair conditons! In Ring Sport you should expect MORE!
> By the way, I like having a tight ass... LOL Guys like Jeff O have an ass like the Holland Tunnel, maybe you prefer that?:twisted: LOL... just joking!


 
bob im not missing the point i do agree that trials need rules and such... but i do think french ring is run a lot more like government than a dog sport. and what i mean is there are so many rules and regs. that if u look with a microscope u can probably find something that isnt exaclty correct by the book. i agree at the least a hosting club should have all blind and everything necasserry for trial, but maybe its just me and i dont claim to be as knoledgable of ring then you but the downfall of ring is gonna be all the bitching about sideline politics. people c all the bickering and im sure its turned others off not just myself. i think if people put training and dogs first and egos and politics further down the line ring will b the shit..psa is a lot simpler as far as politics and such. you read the rules train and compete. ive yet to hear directors of psa bickering about psa on forums and all that type of stuff. but what can i say psa isnt as big as ring but it is a great test for the dogs!!! my only point is with people steady trying to highlight negatives not the positive things will go nowhere fast!!


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## Aron Paul

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Here is the real deal in France. U decide
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blj2RsPh8eI


 
my guess is its the real deal because its called french ringsport and like you said its in france!!#-o
i mean you bring anything to this country started and perfected in another country and expect the same here??? there are very few die hard ring trainers and decoys that would b respected in france from us..and dont worry bob solo. i know u would b one...but these posts r no help to ring here. you should move to frane and compete jerry


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## Bob Solimini

Aaron wrote "bob im not missing the point i do agree that trials need rules and such... but i do think french ring is run a lot more like government than a dog sport. and what i mean is there are so many rules and regs. that if u look with a microscope u can probably find something that isnt exaclty correct by the book. i agree at the least a hosting club should have all blind and everything necasserry for trial, but maybe its just me and i dont claim to be as knoledgable of ring then you but the downfall of ring is gonna be all the bitching about sideline politics. people c all the bickering and im sure its turned others off not just myself. i think if people put training and dogs first and egos and politics further down the line ring will b the shit..psa is a lot simpler as far as politics and such. you read the rules train and compete. ive yet to hear directors of psa bickering about psa on forums and all that type of stuff. but what can i say psa isnt as big as ring but it is a great test for the dogs!!! my only point is with people steady trying to highlight negatives not the positive things will go nowhere fast!!"


Aaron you are pretty dead on with this, however it is about JUDGES allowing things to happen that just SHOULDN'T. Especially the Judges that were self APPOINTED and consistently lessen the integrity of the sport! Making the trials easier does not promote the sport it only makes the sport mediocre. Ring Sport is a very difficult sport and that is the attraction to most people. By allowing things like this as a Judge she has made a mockery of the sport as a whole!


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## Jerry Cudahy

Aron Paul said:


> bob im not missing the point i do agree that trials need rules and such... but i do think french ring is run a lot more like government than a dog sport. and what i mean is there are so many rules and regs. that if u look with a microscope u can probably find something that isnt exaclty correct by the book. i agree at the least a hosting club should have all blind and everything necasserry for trial, but maybe its just me and i dont claim to be as knoledgable of ring then you but the downfall of ring is gonna be all the bitching about sideline politics. people c all the bickering and im sure its turned others off not just myself. i think if people put training and dogs first and egos and politics further down the line ring will b the shit..psa is a lot simpler as far as politics and such. you read the rules train and compete. ive yet to hear directors of psa bickering about psa on forums and all that type of stuff. but what can i say psa isnt as big as ring but it is a great test for the dogs!!! my only point is with people steady trying to highlight negatives not the positive things will go nowhere fast!!


 
French Ringsport in France is attached to The French Government.

Darn ur good Sir.

The highlights are a warning to those who do not know.

Now u know about Guv Connections.


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## Bob Solimini

Aron Paul said:


> my guess is its the real deal because its called french ringsport and like you said its in france!!#-o
> i mean you bring anything to this country started and perfected in another country and expect the same here??? there are very few die hard ring trainers and decoys that would b respected in france from us..and dont worry bob solo. i know u would b one...but these posts r no help to ring here. you should move to frane and compete jerry


the video is of the LARGEST French Ring trial, the FRENCH Championnat. it is also the largest field (size) used in the sport. You can see in the video that it is less than a soccer field. and there is a fence.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Aron Paul said:


> my guess is its the real deal because its called french ringsport and like you said its in france!!#-o
> i mean you bring anything to this country started and perfected in another country and expect the same here??? there are very few die hard ring trainers and decoys that would b respected in france from us..and dont worry bob solo. i know u would b one...but these posts r no help to ring here. you should move to frane and compete jerry


 
Wow..................................

Where to begin ?

France is on my short list to retire to. Actually close to the Border of Spain. 

=D> Bravo

Great idea Aron Paul. :lol:

How did that one get by me. :-k


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## Jake Brandyberry

As someone who competes in nothing but follows all the different sports, this seems like a total lack of respect for the sport and the rules. I understand that there is a lot of time and money spent on running a trial, I used to run one of the largest racquetball tourneys in Ohio, not the same but comparable in terms of event running. It was unfortunate that the plans for this trial fell through but to half ass it as a result of those short comings is the wrong thing to do. You have to respect the sport and face the facts when everything is against you and just call it a day and give the money back to everyone and apologize. What happens when you don't is a trial that looks like a joke.

In terms of following the rules to a T, IMO it's all or nothing. The infractions being discussed here are not small ones, and they are all very clearly defined and stated. You don't need a microscope to find any of them. I relate this to how some people approach golf. The rules are extremely clear and you either follow them or you don't. You can say well I'll just move my ball from behind the tree or that putt was close enough. You either play golf or you hit some balls on a golf course, substantial difference. Temporary fencing is easy to rent. I'm guessing that someone there had a truck, pull the damn trailer off the field. A run to Home Depot for some plywood could have got you 6 blinds built in under an hour for less that $100. Play as meant to be, or don't play at all.

The debate between the NARA and ARF is becoming moot. Between this event, the trial with the judge competing, and some of the BoD bailing, it's hard to say that the NARA has a whole lot of credibility left. People should be open to anyone trying to promote the sport they compete in 100%. A hole bunch of petty BS is coming back to bite them in the ass. When someone is passionate about what they do and how they do it, they have every right to be pissed when someone else is destroying what they love to do.


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## Al Curbow

I was talking to Jeff about the whole thing and i asked him how many people play/ played competitive sports growing up that trial dogs? 

Having rules and understanding them is the entire thing, and i believe that people that have played organized competitive sports in high school, college and past that understand the need. Not following the rules doesn't water any sport down, it completely ruins it. It's like playing basketball and being a shitty ball handler and just carrying the ball instead of dribbling, you're not play basketball .

I'm not talking this particular instance, just in general. Rules are the BACKBONE of all sports and bending them equals cheating, breaking them equals cheating. They have to be inforced or the sport will fall into chaos.


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## Laura Bollschweiler

I don't really care about whatever the bickering is about, because it's french ring. But someone was really concerned with appearances and that reminded me of something....the first ring trial I observed, they had orange construction fencing around a field that normally didn't. The SchH people never used it. Why did the ring people have to contain their dogs? That was the first impression that I got from the fencing, like their dogs weren't as well trained or something. Kinda makes me laugh now.

Just an outsider's perspective on appearances.

Laura


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## Geoff Empey

I think it is a moot point about NARA vs ARF as well. To me this thread it isn't about that at all. It is about *perceived* 'cheapening' of the sport. Which nobody wants right? 

Some of the other posters in the thread point out that the rules are the rules. That French Ringsport is run like the government etc etc .. Well it should be that way to have uniformity for EVERYONE! 

To me _interpretation_ of the rules and bending them for better or worse is a bad thing. (Such as all the blinds on one side etc) So what if the rulebook doesn't specifically say it.. to me it is still irregular. It is so much easier just to do it right and do it right the first time. 

A friend recently said to me "Ringsport is a beautiful thing... when it is done right" I have to agree with him.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> I don't really care about whatever the bickering is about, because it's french ring. But someone was really concerned with appearances and that reminded me of something....the first ring trial I observed, they had orange construction fencing around a field that normally didn't. The SchH people never used it. Why did the ring people have to contain their dogs? That was the first impression that I got from the fencing, like their dogs weren't as well trained or something. Kinda makes me laugh now.
> 
> Just an outsider's perspective on appearances.
> 
> Laura


 Hi Laura, every ring field in French Ring MUST be Fenced, 100%

Rules,


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## Laura Bollschweiler

I like rules. Ask anyone who knows me 

Do the rules state how far away the fence is from the blinds? Because the first field I saw was fenced around the property, but then they put orange construction fencing right around the ring, too. Is that for the blind search, so the dogs can be trained to run around the perimeter? Just curious.

Laura


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## Jerry Cudahy

*Re: Nara Holds Illegal Trial,, Time OUT*

Can anyone hear a Nara Rebutal #-o


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## Jerry Cudahy

Reminds of a Song............

Silence is Golden

Anyone remember the tune.


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## Geoff Empey

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Do the rules state how far away the fence is from the blinds? Because the first field I saw was fenced around the property, but then they put orange construction fencing right around the ring, too. Is that for the blind search, so the dogs can be trained to run around the perimeter? Just curious.


Laura yes they specify minimum 2m up to 5m basically for the safety of the dog and decoy when he escapes. 

It's not just a fence that can be used to define the perimeter of the field. You could use the side of a building, a hedgerow or other natural barrier.

That's the beauty of of FR is the improvisation aspect. You can train the blind search any way you want. 
Perimeter, blind to blind, or even random. As long as it is done within the time allotted.


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## Kadi Thingvall

I have already addressed a number of the issues people are bringing up about this trial. But I will address them again, and a few more. First, there were 6 blinds on the field. In the video everyone is watching there is one out of sight behind the white canopy (way down the field to the viewer's left) another one out of sight behind the camo blind and I believe in the background is one that blew over and hadn't been set back up yet. The 3 x 3 configuration is a suggested layout, not a requirement. I've seen fields with blinds all over the place, tucked down off in a corner on a non-rectangular field, different numbers of blinds on different sides, blinds on the short end, etc. 6 isn't even the required number, it's a minimum, I've seen fields with 7, 8, etc blinds also.

The field was large, but it was fully fenced. There were some photographers on the field, but no spectators, if the dog ran right by spectators it was because they were standing at the fence. As for the size I couldn't find a maximum size in the rulebook, and I know of other trials that have been held in stadiums so ...

I don't agree about the long jump being illegal. The rulebook states
The key must have a matte finish and be entirely white or have a minimum 10 centimeter border of white around its perimeter.​There was a 10 centimeter border of white around the perimeter.

The handler had a mark to go stand on, it was one of the numbers on the track. 

There was a problem with a couple of the blinds blowing over, but I have seen this problem on every field that doesn't have permanent wooden blinds built on it. This isn't the first time it's happened, nor will it be the last.

I've never talked to a judge who objected to non-natural surfaces. I've talked to judges who said they wouldn't have a problem with a trial on astro-turf, the only objection they had was hard surfaces like pavement. IMO hard packed dirt is harder then the track surface, and I've been to many trials where part, up to the majority, of the field was hard packed dirt. This track surface had a lot of spring to it, nothing that would have been dangerous to the dog. Not to mention they were running on it, not jumping on it off the palisade.

I have no intention of spending all my time rebutting people who simply want to complain. If someone has honest concerns I will respond, but otherwise I have more productive things to do with my time then post here and banter back and forth with people who were not at the trial, don't have the facts, and don't want to believe the facts when they are presented. The dogs and their training were tested appropriately, the field layout was different then normal but I don't see anywhere that they violated the rules. And I looked because I knew every minor thing the club did or didn't do would be used as fodder for the anti-NARA crowds complaints. 

This was the first time a Ring trial has been held in AZ, there was nobody in this club or any of the local clubs who has ever hosted a trial for this club to draw experience from. There was a lot to do just to pull it off and I think the club should be congratulated for getting it done, with big thank you's for some people from out of the area who came and worked their butts off to help make this a success. I had a long talk with the club afterwards about what can be done to improve things next time around, and I'm confident their next trial will go smoother.

If someone can point to a specific rule that was broken, please feel free. I never claimed to be perfect, I don't know a judge or decoy who is. If I missed a rule, I have no problem admitting to a mistake and making sure it doesn't happen again. If people just want to repeat the same misinformation over and over, I'm not going to spend any more time on this.


----------



## Jim Engel

*A suggestion*

When I last started a Schutzhund club, we had to run a practice trial
that our regional director came and observed.

I am not sure if it is a rule in all organizations, but it makes a whole
lot of sense.

If this had been a practice trial, all of these issues could have been
worked out.


----------



## Hans Akerbakk

Sounds like the field was the same for all who participated, had a open field so you could work your dog on the iregular blind pattern.Sounds fair.
No one from the trial bitching and complaining, only people not involved in ring, or trying to promote thier own organization are complaining .
But like me they weren't there ,so what does any of us know ?


----------



## jack van strien

Comparing the finals in France to a trial in the USA is downright stupid.Kadi, i have been to small trials in France and not all fields were perfect,it depends on the judge.If the judge seems the field fit to test the dogs at a lower level then the competitors should oblige *or *complain and not participate.
Jerry ,if you are worried if your dog will quit working if a twenty lbs blind falls down then maybe it is time for another dog?
I have seen blinds pulled down on purpose to test the dog.
Rules?Yes there have to be rules but don't let rules stand in the way of you doing your sport.I did not see anything dangerous in the video that could harm a dog.
Like the Eagles sing, get over it!


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

Hans Akerbakk said:


> Sounds like the field was the same for all who participated, had a open field so you could work your dog on the iregular blind pattern.Sounds fair.
> No one from the trial bitching and complaining, only people not involved in ring, or trying to promote thier own organization are complaining .
> But like me they weren't there ,so what does any of us know ?


They marked the field and had a test run.

Any rule on that :-k


----------



## Billy DiSciullo

Jerry,

The people that are saying the trail and the field was fair and CORRECT don't seem to know the rules of FRENCH RINGSPORT and for the most part have not competed in a FRENCH RINGSPORT trial, because if they did they would understand what they were looking at in the video. The ones talking about dogs not working due to the blinds belowing over and so on do not understand that this is not about the dogs willingness to work, IT'S ABOUT THE RULES and keeping the sport as pure as we can here in the states!! This is why I left NARA and became part of the American RIngsport Federation! JMO!

Billy


----------



## Dave Kroyer

Although the trial was not pretty, I think yall need to take a pill and train your dogs. I have been to hundreds of trials for every sport from USA to EU......and not every club trial is the French Cup or WUSV or Mondio Worlds or PSA championship. Some clubs are small and dont have resources or even enough dogs to hold a trial. A Good judge makes a call on ifr it is fair and safe. A club trial is a club trial...not a championship. Most people here complaining have not even shown a dog at a club trial much less trained a dog to R3. I wish I would have videod all the Sch, Mondio, PSA, Belgian Ring ect...traisl that were below par. And some were even in EU!!!! Imagine that!!!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

OMG Dave Kroyer ! ! ! ! LOL How did you find time to get on here ??


----------



## Dave Kroyer

every 8 months or so i get a wild hair and respond to some of this shit....its kinda funny....makes me crack up...........then i split and sit back and watch all the craziness!!!! Its really fun on the AKC GSD pedigree database!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats even more comical!!! So I guess im am out...peace and hair grease....I need to go train some dogs!!!


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Dave Kroyer said:


> Although the trial was not pretty, I think yall need to take a pill and train your dogs. I have been to hundreds of trials for every sport from USA to EU......and not every club trial is the French Cup or WUSV or Mondio Worlds or PSA championship. Some clubs are small and dont have resources or even enough dogs to hold a trial. A Good judge makes a call on ifr it is fair and safe. A club trial is a club trial...not a championship. Most people here complaining have not even shown a dog at a club trial much less trained a dog to R3. I wish I would have videod all the Sch, Mondio, PSA, Belgian Ring ect...traisl that were below par. And some were even in EU!!!! Imagine that!!!


I have no idea how these cluelesss biotches are ever going to get there sports off the ground and it appears to be that way across all of North America. For example here in Minnesota we have 2 maybe 3 official ring clubs with in 50 miles of the twin cities there are also spun off from these 5 or 6 sub groups that consist of 4 to 6 people that train separate from each other. Helpers become experts faster there suit can get the stink on. Spawning from all these groups and clubs there are only a hand full of dogs been titled.
Hell my guess 90% of the dogs ever been titled in the history of ring sport here in the US are still walking the earth that's how new it is here. 
JMO you got to start helping each other and get rid of the baller attitudes and quite tearing every thing and every one down, some of this shit should be taken up with your organizations not on dog boards for all to see your drama.


----------



## Justin Gannon

good looking dog and handler in the video.


----------



## Harry Keely

This thread is the perfect example of why everything we as americans touch with working dogs eventually turns to shit. ( money,greed,politics and clicks ) are the root of all evil for the dogs here. Shit happens, let it roll of your shoulder folks and move the hell on and go train dogs.](*,)


----------



## Mike Di Rago

Harry,
I think you summed it all up! 
Mike


----------



## Matt Nieuwkoop

I agree...they both look extremely good!
How's it goin buddy? When are you coming up for a visit?


----------



## Justin Gannon

when does the snow melt and the rain stop? when that happens i will be there.


----------



## Matt Nieuwkoop

55 and and sunny right now...haven't seen snow since last year....


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: This thread is the perfect example of why everything we as americans touch with working dogs eventually turns to shit. ( money,greed,politics and clicks ) are the root of all evil for the dogs here.

You forgot insecure control freaks. 

You can say that they shouldn't bitch, but if they don't then I can only imagine the freebie trials that will go on. 

Too me it is like our politicians in Washington, they try and get over on us all the time, and look what we have allowed them to do. There are rules, and they need to be followed. Not brain surgery, and the doper attitude that "its all good" makes everything worse.

You look at the bullshit nara is pulling, and one guy (me) says something about it, and the best response they had was that I was not a member of nara. 

Maybe I should buy some decoys and make myself a judge like those in nara, and just have my girlfriend title all my dogs for me to ring three in a couple of months. Then I could sell them, or their pups to all of you that actually believe in titles and make lots of money. **** all of you right ??

Don't want to hear the bitching, read a different post. That is one of the most retarded responses yet. Like we have a gun to your head forcing you to read this shit. Get serious.


----------



## Harry Keely

Jeff not that I disagree with what your saying there, but come on you think one ****ing person is going to change a entire organization, I think you already know that answer to that shit. All I'm saying is that its gotten completely out of hand with tons of corruption and hob nobbing in every sport. So basically what I was saying is do whats right and the rules should be followed to a T but unless you get a big support following you are only going to stress yourself out because you sure the hell arent going to change the politicians of the dog sport world just like you aint going to change the ones in Washington, instead train your dog and compete and **** the rest and enjoy yourself.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

QUote: Jeff not that I disagree with what your saying there, but come on you think one ****ing person is going to change a entire organization, I think you already know that answer to that shit

I just did. All it takes is the indifference of one good man for evil to prevail, or some shit like that. LOL


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

*Re: Nara Holds Illegal Trial, ,, , Hey Nara Decoys*

Have the Nara decoys lost all respect for their certifications.

Maybe they are not really certified.

Maybe they simply do not understand their positions.

Maybe, they no longer are afforded that position ](*,)

Or the responsibility to report incorrect situations to the CUN.

Forget Nara, losers


What a Joke.

No more rats ass about the number of blinds.

.............

When I was a Trial Decoy, many years ago.

I am almost 60 years old.

If I had come to act as a Trial Decoy with the conditions in the videos.

One, I would have refuse to suit up. 

NEVER

TWO, I would have laid a complaint both with Nara and the CUN in France.

Those blinds were not safe.

BULL SHIT BLINDS



Decoy has no backing to hold him from a strong asshole dog who decides to Scud him and not hold a bark.

U dumb ones who have the stupidity to respond crap.

AS a decoy I expected to be able to use the blind to help me to escape.

If you do not understand what I just said.

Well, this is important, not moot.

Everyone who took part in that trial were cheated. 

FROM EVERY LEVEL


----------



## Leri Hanson

I was at the trial. My first thought as we pulled in the parking lot was WOW, GREAT FIELD! In southern California it's almost impossible to find a location like this without paying an arm & leg, or having a strong "in" with someone high up.

This was Arizona's very first ring trial. I've heard talk of hosting trials for years, but no one has yet to step up. Until last weekend. One young guy did damn near everything (an he's a Pit Bull guy at that!), so I think overall he did a super good job hosting PSA on Saturday, and FR on Sunday. Way to go Billy et al!!

Driving home my friend and I chatted on what a pleasant trial it was. Lot's of spectators, friendly competitors, some fantastic dogs (who unfortunately had some bad luck), nice seeing new handlers/members, fair and friendly judging, nice raffle, awards, and just overall VERY PLEASANT!

Granted, I'm a rookie in this sport but I've been to several trials and in fact my club has hosted Regional and National events, not to mention several small club trials. Many of our trials have attracted 30+ competitors. Although we like to believe we do a pretty OK job hosting events, there is ALWAYS some sort of complaint. No matter how correct we try to be. None of the complaints are ever "official" but they are rumored to the BOD, and always filter back to us. Now, we're use to it and almost consider the "complaints" compliments ;-) Anyway, this field or trial was not so different then others I've attended. If it was different in any major way, it was in a GOOD way. There were 6 blinds. The field was completely fenced. The jumps were nice/safe/clean. As far as I could tell, everything was legit. If there was anything weird going on, I have full faith that the judge made the right decision for the circumstances she faced that day, as I've seen other judges do in the past. But again, what do I know, I'm just a rookie.

For any readers not familiar with NARA or ARF or CRA or USMRA or ring in general, I encourage you to ATTEND an event and decide for yourself before believing any one organization is better then the other. They all have their good and bad, and I still support them all.

Respectfully,

Leri Hanson


----------



## Maren Bell Jones

I think this thread can be summed up thusly from 0:58 on. Smokey, my friend, you're entering a world of pain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQmQhA-OrM


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I think this thread can be summed up thusly from 0:58 on. Smokey, my friend, you're entering a world of pain.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQmQhA-OrM


Rules are the rules LOL



Jeff O to all of you that actually believe in titles and make lots of money. quote said:


> Oh my, I thought one shouldn't breed a dog without titles, it always makes for the best pups. LOL


----------



## Lisa Geller

Leri
You are Not a rookie! 


I personally am grateful for the people that step up and Judge and decoy our trials. Thanks USA, Nara, USMRA, and PSA for holding it all together under constant fire! If I do not like a judge, think a decoy is unfair... I just go to a differnt trial (or host my own). 

For us (me and my dogs) I trial to test my training? People are going to do weird stuff, whatever, it really is just competition in dog sports. right?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

It is not like there is some shortage of people to judge. They are not stepping up, they want to do this.

Here is a basic problem that all those that could give a **** about rules....... well because most of you don't compete anyway.... have forgotten. nara has no selectiff. They go by score, so you make a **** all easy trial, and viola, you have a dog that can go and compete at their championships. THey go by score. get it ?? Easy trial, make up your own rules, let your husband decoy your dog, and you get the better score.

Think about if you are the poor joe average who has a trial under a real judge, with a correct field, and good decoys. You are gonna look at this and be pissed.


----------



## Dave Kroyer

Once again, has any one that is complaining ever seen a small sch club trial in middle nebraska? Or a Mondio trial in middle colorado? or PSA trial in middle of ...well weherever? For some reason everyone thinks that in the other sports its all perfect and the field is perfect and the decoys are hammering the dogs.....wake up folks......i have seen sch trials with smaller then regulation tracks (even at nationals and world competitions) is that breaking the rules? I have seen Mondio trials where the field was not painted (is that breaking the rules? (that was judged by a belgian judge, imagine that!) I have seen PSA trials where the field was not set up to regulation....I have seen trials in EU....well were dogs got titled that should not have (has anyone ever seen a sch 3 showling dog from germany) I have seen scores from alternate breed trials where Herve was the decoy in france and dogs were getting in the 370s....ya like its real easy to get a 370 with herve as decoy....with alternate breeds) OMG...that was in FRANCE!!!!! Can it be true? As far as I can see the trial in AZ was legal. Cudos to the new club for trying to get it done!!!! And FYI, at the NARA championship....even if you have padded other scores....you still need to bring your A GAME.....because its judged like a championship. How many dogs in sch get a qualifieng 270 at a club trial and then suck at the nationals....ummmmmm....no comment. Just train your dog....show up at a championship....and bring it instead of complaining!! Its easy to compete...when your on the "outside" of the fence....or on the internet!!! hehe we call that the "peanut gallery"........


----------



## Jim Engel

*Well stated, Mr. Kroyer !*

This pretty much hits the nail on the head .



Dave Kroyer said:


> Once again, has any one that is complaining ever seen a small sch club trial in middle nebraska? Or a Mondio trial in middle colorado? or PSA trial in middle of ...well weherever? For some reason everyone thinks that in the other sports its all perfect and the field is perfect and the decoys are hammering the dogs.....wake up folks......i have seen sch trials with smaller then regulation tracks (even at nationals and world competitions) is that breaking the rules? I have seen Mondio trials where the field was not painted (is that breaking the rules? (that was judged by a belgian judge, imagine that!) I have seen PSA trials where the field was not set up to regulation....I have seen trials in EU....well were dogs got titled that should not have (has anyone ever seen a sch 3 showling dog from germany) I have seen scores from alternate breed trials where Herve was the decoy in france and dogs were getting in the 370s....ya like its real easy to get a 370 with herve as decoy....with alternate breeds) OMG...that was in FRANCE!!!!! Can it be true? As far as I can see the trial in AZ was legal. Cudos to the new club for trying to get it done!!!! And FYI, at the NARA championship....even if you have padded other scores....you still need to bring your A GAME.....because its judged like a championship. How many dogs in sch get a qualifieng 270 at a club trial and then suck at the nationals....ummmmmm....no comment. Just train your dog....show up at a championship....and bring it instead of complaining!! Its easy to compete...when your on the "outside" of the fence....or on the internet!!! hehe we call that the "peanut gallery"........


----------



## Al Curbow

Why is it "complaining" if someone points out a problem? I think it's good to have a rules violation pointed out, i'm talking in general not this specific trial.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

It is always complaining, bitching, crying. It is never just "pointing out the rules".


----------



## Billy DiSciullo

Hi Dave,

I would like to say that we are not talking about Schutzhund or Mondio Ring or anything else, we are talking about FRENCH RINGSPORT. This is a very difficult dog sport and one that I am very passonate about. You also keep repeating we should go train our dogs because YOU THINK we who are concerned about the integrity of the sport are just trying to cause trouble or you just DON'T CARE about the rules of the game. Well, I think most of us that are concerned about French Ringsport being presented properly do indeed train our dogs, this is the reason for our concern! I for one have trained and trialed two dogs to Rlll and I am now just starting my third. I competed in four NARA Championships with these two dogs in Rlll and have been in the top three each time and also the NARA Cup winner and I have competed internationally. I train with a former NARA Decoy of the Year who has also trained and decoyed in France! Training and trialing are the two reasons why it is important to me and others that wish to be successful in the sport that it be played with NO ALTERATIONS OF THE RULES OR GREY AREAS!! I'm sorry if you do not agree with me or any other person that wishes to voice their opinion about the future of French Ringsport here in America!


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

Dave Kroyer;And FYI said:


> Dave, your post was almost all on the money.
> 
> But the judged like a championship part .
> 
> How the heck did you come to that part of your script.


----------



## Christie Meyer

Bob Solimini said:


> I forgot to post this earlier.... I want to say this is NOTHING to do with the hosting club! If they are a new club hosting their first trial, congrats! BUT someone should have assisted you in what is required to host a trial! They should have explained how the field should be set up! This falls solely on the shoulders of the NARA BoD and the Judge of the trial!!!!


LOL. But they are the ones who are taking the brunt of this political criticism and who would be faced with sending home the people who traveled to trial their dogs. If the offenses turn out to be legal (and I don't know, just saying "IF")- then shouldn't the participants be praised for pulling it off given non-ideal situations.


----------



## Christie Meyer

Leri Hanson said:


> But again, what do I know, I'm just a rookie.
> 
> For any readers not familiar with NARA or ARF or CRA or USMRA or ring in general, I encourage you to ATTEND an event and decide for yourself before believing any one organization is better then the other. They all have their good and bad, and I still support them all.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Leri Hanson


Nice post Leri - and NO ONE could call you a rookie to dog sports.

I am new to ring, but not new to the protection world. The only thing that makes me hesitate before working a FR foundation on my girls is the ridiculous bickering. I understand that there are 2 sides to every story and I genuinely like folks on both sides. But the senseless desire to trash the other side to make make the other look bad is really disheartening - and it happens from both directions. So crappy! Why can't you guys just keep proving your dogs on the field instead of looking for reasons to publicaly trash each other???


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

QUote: then shouldn't the participants be praised for pulling it off given non-ideal situations.

So not following the rules would be acceptable in that situation ?? Does the fact that people showed up make it more acceptable to not follow rules ??


----------



## Christie Meyer

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> QUote: then shouldn't the participants be praised for pulling it off given non-ideal situations.
> 
> So not following the rules would be acceptable in that situation ?? Does the fact that people showed up make it more acceptable to not follow rules ??


No. But I am asking if the rules, as they are written in the rule book, were violated? The field was fenced. That was established. There were 6 blinds, that was established. They may not have been completely symmetrical, but is that necessity stated in the rule book? Is the specific stability of blinds stated? Again, as I asked. If things were legal within the specific confines of the rulebook, shouldn't the club be applauded? 

I am asking these questions based on this thread. Forgive me if I missed something.


----------



## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas

There is another Ring Organization on the US instead of NARA?

When I think of Ring Sport on the US , names like Leri Hanson, Kadi Thingvall, Stephanie Obrien came to my mind. And the contribution of this people to the sport on the US is not under discusion.

This appears like a Tread just about a group of people trying to prove they are better than the others, and they feel lucky because they found a video that looks bad.

France on Ring is Beyond The reach of ringers on American continent so the comparission is useless, to go and be on a trial there is far away from being competitive and the numbers talk by itself.

want to improve ring on your country? forum children fights is useless to reach that goal.


----------



## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas

I almost forgot

Hard and irregular surface, lots of dust, Holes on the ground maybe?, No fence , as you can see the red barrier is just a soft plastic one, that Hard Blinds in case of strong winds, omg!

Judge: Camile Tisserard

Main Decoy: Marc Villain

By the way a hell of a Mexican Selectiff as allways

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GSsWnjna20&feature=player_embedded#


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

So the snow fence that you posted in that video is not a fence ?? What was your point again ?? Did you read what was posted, or just skim it ?? Did you see the video ??

Just curious.


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

Christie Meyer said:


> No. But I am asking if the rules, as they are written in the rule book, were violated? The field was fenced. That was established. There were 6 blinds, that was established. They may not have been completely symmetrical, but is that necessity stated in the rule book? Is the specific stability of blinds stated? Again, as I asked. If things were legal within the specific confines of the rulebook, shouldn't the club be applauded?
> 
> I am asking these questions based on this thread. Forgive me if I missed something.


3 blinds, not 6


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

Back to No Fence.

Since when in French Ringsport are the spectators allowed on the field.

:?:


----------



## Adam Rawlings

I hope when all the dust settles and you guys work this shit out and things keep on moving forward in a positive manner. If it doesn't, look back at this thread in a couple of years to see where it all went wrong.

As a newbee to the sport and a guy that could careless about the politics, the way this is being handled is laughable. I agree with the rules being up held, but some of you guys are like Nazi Strata council members 

I will continue training my dog and hopefully I will get a chance to compete with him, but I will not trial at a NARA or ARF event because of this nonsense. I train dogs as a hobby and because it's fun. This shit is a huge turn off IMO. If people really want this shit they can just revert back to the daily grind for a cup full.

I have read every post and have been following the bouncing ball. I don't want to argue with anyone just my POV.


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

Adam Rawlings said:


> I hope when all the dust settles and you guys work this shit out and things keep on moving forward in a positive manner. If it doesn't, look back at this thread in a couple of years to see where it all went wrong.
> 
> As a newbee to the sport and a guy that could careless about the politics, the way this is being handled is laughable. I agree with the rules being up held, but some of you guys are like Nazi Strata council members
> 
> I will continue training my dog and hopefully I will get a chance to compete with him, but I will not trial at a NARA or ARF event because of this nonsense. I train dogs as a hobby and because it's fun. This shit is a huge turn off IMO. If people really want this shit they can just revert back to the daily grind for a cup full.
> 
> I have read every post and have been following the bouncing ball. I don't want to argue with anyone just my POV.


Hey Adam, what club are you in.

Tell me it is the CRA.

Watch your gear.


----------



## Christie Meyer

Adam Rawlings said:


> hopefully I will get a chance to compete with him, but I will not trial at a NARA or ARF event because of this nonsense.


In reading through this thread again, I don't think this is an ARF vs. NARA situation. It is personal individuals (some who don't compete in FR at all) voicing their opinion about a trial. I jumped to the same conclusion.


----------



## Geoff Empey

Geoff Empey said:


> I think it is a moot point about NARA vs ARF as well. To me this thread it isn't about that at all. It is about *perceived* 'cheapening' of the sport. Which nobody wants right?
> 
> Some of the other posters in the thread point out that the rules are the rules. That French Ringsport is run like the government etc etc .. Well it should be that way to have uniformity for EVERYONE!
> 
> To me _interpretation_ of the rules and bending them for better or worse is a bad thing. (Such as all the blinds on one side etc) So what if the rulebook doesn't specifically say it.. to me it is still irregular. It is so much easier just to do it right and do it right the first time.
> 
> A friend recently said to me "Ringsport is a beautiful thing... when it is done right" I have to agree with him.


Again to me this isn't about stabbing NARA in the back as stated in another post. Maybe others would like to do that, but I don't mean it that way at all. Some of my best friends in the dog world are NARA members. Who have been very very helpful to me and my dog to actually compete. 

It is just following the French (model) Format of the rules for trials which includes field setup. Sure every field is different .. to an extent. Interpretation of the translated rules are the other thing, to me it is the perceived cheapening of the sport of that day's trial that went along with interpretation of those rules. Whether what happened follows the rules or not .. appearances are everything.


----------



## Adam Rawlings

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Hey Adam, what club are you in.
> 
> Tell me it is the CRA.
> 
> Watch your gear.


My gear will be fine.


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

Adam Rawlings said:


> My gear will be fine.


Sorry Adam, U b 2 newb. It's a bad joke. My whacked humour.

A former CRA judge pinched a complete clubs gear. Ruined that club.

Where I got a chuckle.

You defining how you will never trial, nara or arf.

Your last option is....

So watch your gear.

:lol: ;-)

Oh and have a blast in Ring


----------



## Joby Becker

Justin Gannon said:


> good looking dog and handler in the video.


The handler is a DUDE! LOL


----------



## James Lechernich

Justin Gannon said:


> good looking dog and handler in the video.


 









Do you know how I know you're gay?


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

Geoff Empey said:


> Again to me this isn't about stabbing NARA in the back as stated in another post. Maybe others would like to do that, but I don't mean it that way at all. Some of my best friends in the dog world are NARA members. Who have been very very helpful to me and my dog to actually compete.
> 
> It is just following the French (model) Format of the rules for trials which includes field setup. Sure every field is different .. to an extent. Interpretation of the translated rules are the other thing, to me it is the perceived cheapening of the sport of that day's trial that went along with interpretation of those rules. Whether what happened follows the rules or not .. appearances are everything.


Geoff, we are in complete agreement.


I was a Nara Member. Almost day one.

Beyer, wow, what a start to Ring in North America.

This Judge in the 80's layed out a basic foundation to follow.

His way was strong dogs, strong leadership.

Nara did not pay attention then.

Same problem Nara has today.

U know Paying Attention to detail.

Nara cured on this issue almost 30 years ago.

Today Nara is still in cur mode.

Just look at at the current line up of judges for upcoming nara trials.

100% homegrown judges. The majority simple appointed judges. Whims

My personal prediction.

Pretenders of Ringsport


NARA is in Drano Mode


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## Justin Gannon

the handler is me. you know how in know your gay....


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Geoff, we are in complete agreement.
> 
> 
> I was a Nara Member. Almost day one.
> 
> Beyer, wow, what a start to Ring in North America.
> 
> This Judge in the 80's layed out a basic foundation to follow.
> 
> His way was strong dogs, strong leadership.
> 
> Nara did not pay attention then.
> 
> Same problem Nara has today.
> 
> U know Paying Attention to detail.
> 
> Nara cured on this issue almost 30 years ago.
> 
> Today Nara is still in cur mode.
> 
> Just look at at the current line up of judges for upcoming nara trials.
> 
> 100% homegrown judges. The majority simple appointed judges. Whims
> 
> My personal prediction.
> 
> Pretenders of Ringsport
> 
> 
> NARA is in Drano Mode


Jerry what is your curriculum on Ring Sport?, How many trials had you hosted?, How many championships had you won?, How many Ring 3 titled dogs by yourself? and how about the points? Thanks


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: the handler is me. you know how in know your gay....

Possibly one of the best answers ever in the history of this board. I started laughing. Nice one.


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## James Lechernich

Justin Gannon said:


> the handler is me. you know how in know your gay....


D'oh! #-oGuess I'd have known that if I'd bothered to read the thread rather than post off the cuff. 

Now let's raise a glass to your continued narcissistic heterosexuality!!


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## Geoff Empey

Cesar A. Flores Dueñas said:


> Jerry what is your curriculum on Ring Sport?, How many trials had you hosted?, How many championships had you won?, How many Ring 3 titled dogs by yourself? and how about the points? Thanks


LOL .. 

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/big-hello-jerry-cudahy-ontario-canada-14268/


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## Bob Solimini

James Lechernich said:


> D'oh! #-oGuess I'd have known that if I'd bothered to read the thread rather than post off the cuff.
> 
> Now let's raise a glass to your continued narcissistic heterosexuality!!


 
LMAO!!! Now that is comedy!


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## Joby Becker

Justin Gannon said:


> the handler is me. you know how in know your gay....


LOL...that is FUNNY.. Dog looked good, you looked presentable


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## Jerry Cudahy

Cesar A. Flores Dueñas said:


> Jerry what is your curriculum on Ring Sport?, How many trials had you hosted?, How many championships had you won?, How many Ring 3 titled dogs by yourself? and how about the points? Thanks


Hey Ceasar, many more than yourself.

This much I will tell you,

In one year we attracted from France to compete in Canada.

First trial was Ring. Historic, Guy Michel and the Famous Cheyenne de Loup Mutin. 392

I was the last training decoy to work Cheyenne before he attended the 93 French Championship.

Where he won both the French Cup and Championship a few days after leaving Toronto. Score 392

My Baron is a direct decendent.

Same year Alfred Schott and Eclair who returned home to win the French Campagne Championships.

I worked Eclair for several days prior to North Americas first Campagne Trial.

I am the only Canadian to ever attain a Campagne 500 on my dog, Bayard.

What a telling question about yourself. To ask me to validate who I am.

I competed on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, In Three

I have been on the Championship Podium Three Times, Two Dogs.

I have decoyed at a Championship in Ring, trial galore .

I also decoyed in Campagne.

I titled a lot of dogs in my day. For myself and many other owners.



Ok I answered, more than enough. 

Your Turn :lol:


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## Jerry Cudahy

Ceasar, forget responding, I really don't care who or what you want to be.](*,)


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## Jerry Cudahy

BTW, Geoff, I know your watching.


Hear we are training together Thursday Morning, Bright and Early. \\/

I will p/u Tims Dognuts.

Welcome to the Hood, 

C-Ya


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## Kadi Thingvall

Jerry Cudahy said:


> First trial was Ring. Historic, Guy Michel and the Famous Cheyenne de Loup Mutin. 392
> 
> I was the last training decoy to work Cheyenne before he attended the 93 French Championship.
> 
> Where he won both the French Cup and Championship a few days after leaving Toronto. Score 392


For those who don't know Cheyenne, here's a video of him competing in 1993

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmvo-9TFy3A


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So you are saying that you had the same exact set up, right ??


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## Kadi Thingvall

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So you are saying that you had the same exact set up, right ??


No, I said "here is a video of Cheyenne competing" 

I wouldn't say we had the exact same setup in AZ, because the blind setup in that video is not legal today :-o


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Hey Ceasar, many more than yourself.
> 
> This much I will tell you,
> 
> In one year we attracted from France to compete in Canada.
> 
> First trial was Ring. Historic, Guy Michel and the Famous Cheyenne de Loup Mutin. 392
> 
> I was the last training decoy to work Cheyenne before he attended the 93 French Championship.
> 
> Where he won both the French Cup and Championship a few days after leaving Toronto. Score 392
> 
> My Baron is a direct decendent.
> 
> Same year Alfred Schott and Eclair who returned home to win the French Campagne Championships.
> 
> I worked Eclair for several days prior to North Americas first Campagne Trial.
> 
> I am the only Canadian to ever attain a Campagne 500 on my dog, Bayard.
> 
> What a telling question about yourself. To ask me to validate who I am.
> 
> I competed on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, In Three
> 
> I have been on the Championship Podium Three Times, Two Dogs.
> 
> I have decoyed at a Championship in Ring, trial galore .
> 
> I also decoyed in Campagne.
> 
> I titled a lot of dogs in my day. For myself and many other owners.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I answered, more than enough.
> 
> Your Turn :lol:


Good Curriculum You won NARA on 1992, with 315 Points 18 years ago?

The amazing thing is you make Cheyenne Des Loups Moutins to win championat de France on 1993 wow!

what happened since then? French Ring is Huge on Canada now because of you?

I am curios cause i think thats the reason why you generate *points of comparison*

About my curriculum i play ball with my dog on my backyard, thats the reason i dont attack other people effort on Dog sports. I am Noone if i am doing Nothing.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Cheyenne des Loup Mutin

Arguably, The Greatest Malinois ever to Compete in Ringsport.

Stud Dog Extrordinaire


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## Jerry Cudahy

Cesar A. Flores Dueñas said:


> Good Curriculum You won NARA on 1992, with 315 Points 18 years ago?
> 
> The amazing thing is you make Cheyenne Des Loups Moutins to win championat de France on 1993 wow!
> 
> what happened since then? French Ring is Huge on Canada now because of you?
> 
> I am curios cause i think thats the reason why you generate *points of comparison*
> 
> About my curriculum i play ball with my dog on my backyard, thats the reason i dont attack other people effort on Dog sports. I am Noone if i am doing Nothing.


 
I see you are Putz.


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