# How much time for a dog to stabilize?



## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

I put this in the PPD section because I believe strong dogs go through the process differently than dogs who don't respond to their environment the way a protection dog would. Strong dogs have the advantage of good nerves but they are also concerned about things your average pet may not be concerned about. Some may be quite sensitive to the the owner/handler. There are dogs that can pass from one home to another without appearing to have been affected at all by the change. I'm not sure this kind of dog would make a good protection dog. Keep in mind I'm talking about a complete adjustment to moving to a new home/family environment, not from one kennel to another.

With consistent and fair treatment, how long in your experience does it take a dog to stabilize? By stabilize I mean start showing the subtle almost intangible signs that it has accepted that this is his home and where it's going to stay. What are some of those signs that appear at a time when you thought the dog has long ago adjusted, and make you think "Aha, only now is he really getting comfortable."


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

In my program, handlers are assigned their dogs within two weeks of the class start date. The first week is strictly academics and rapport building exercises, with ob starting the second week. It is rare we ever have a problem with what you describe as stabilization. Time is on average, three weeks.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

While that information is interesting it is hardly relevant to my question. The reason it is not relevant is because your expectations from the dog are different. This is evident from your responses to some questions I posed recently. Your answers are in bold.


David Frost said:


> Throughout this time did take pains to help the dog fit within the structure of your family unit which includes small children, other pets, visitors, neighbors etc.?
> 
> *Not a major concern. If it works out that's great. If not, it's a working dog.*
> 
> ...


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Here we go again.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

I just think that he doesn't like the police.LOL](*,)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> While that information is interesting it is hardly relevant to my question. .


Right, sorry. I see what you're saying. I was referring to PSD, dogs with solid nerve etc and little discernment.

Carry on.

DFrost


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Right, sorry. I see what you're saying. I was referring to PSD, dogs with solid nerve etc and little discernment.
> 
> Carry on.
> 
> DFrost


Cool is the rule


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> Cool is the rule


Off topic so I apologize, but can someone with computer savy instruct me how I could make that my avatar. That is just too cool for school.

DFrost


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

This is the max avatar size I can have. Being a moderator and since your user name in red may mean you can have a bigger one.










Back to our scheduled programming.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> I put this in the PPD section because I believe strong dogs go through the process differently than dogs who don't respond to their environment the way a protection dog would. Strong dogs have the advantage of good nerves but they are also concerned about things your average pet may not be concerned about.


Some "protection dogs" don't respond to their environments well. Especially if they are tested away from being behind their own fence with actual confrontation. Basically it all depends on the dog and the handler who now has them. If the owner is smart they will leave the dog alone and let them adjust in their own time. The owner must build a bond and let the dog settle in without pushing him too far. New owners can make the same mistake as inexperienced trainers and try too ask and push for too much too soon and this will only reflect in a dog who is not ready and is not willing to do what they could if not forced. Too many people want a deadline, well the truth is there is not one. Truthfully you can not say that in X amount of weeks your dog will be here, either in bitework or settling in to a new home. This is what really chaps my ass, a trainer will say give me X amount of dollars and in X weeks your dog will be a fully trained protection dog. The same goes with placing a dog. All you can really do is give a list of instructions as far as the do's and don'ts. After several weeks begin training with the new handler and dog and see where the dog is. Every dog is different and needs different levels of adjustments and training during this period. The key thing to remember is to let the new owners know that this is still just a dog, let the dog be a dog and when he is settled then pick up the training again.


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## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

Having dealt with both police K9s and dogs that didn't make the grade for police k9s, I feel the time for stabilization varies depending on the dog. I have had dogs that stabilize in as little as 3 days (made very good ppd dogs) and some as long as 2 1/2 weeks. The ones that took longer, actually were dogs that were too damn stubborn to be in homes with kids unattended (family or not) but were the best single person PPDs. The dogs that were considered too soft for PSD, were a lot quicker to adjust.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> I put this in the PPD section because I believe strong dogs go through the process differently than dogs who don't respond to their environment the way a protection dog would. Strong dogs have the advantage of good nerves but they are also concerned about things your average pet may not be concerned about. Some may be quite sensitive to the the owner/handler. There are dogs that can pass from one home to another without appearing to have been affected at all by the change. I'm not sure this kind of dog would make a good protection dog. Keep in mind I'm talking about a complete adjustment to moving to a new home/family environment, not from one kennel to another.
> 
> With consistent and fair treatment, how long in your experience does it take a dog to stabilize? By stabilize I mean start showing the subtle almost intangible signs that it has accepted that this is his home and where it's going to stay. What are some of those signs that appear at a time when you thought the dog has long ago adjusted, and make you think "Aha, only now is he really getting comfortable."


 
Nothing I hate worse then someone with a newly purchased adult, possibly some training and take it to the field the first day "to see what it can do". WTF! 
What it SHOULD do is bite the new owner on the ass!


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

Bob, so you're agreeing that it takes time for the dog to adjust, yes? How long from your experience?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Time, yes! But I agree with the 2-3 weeks. 
I think most people would be depressed at how quickly their dog will change owners but, depending on the dog, some need more time to adjust. 
I've had a few dogs that would go with anyone that fed them . Terriers in particular. The GSDs seem to adjust easily but still need that bit of time. 
Respect towards a new handler or owner has to be earned. In particular with the guard type breeds.
In that light I guess it also depends on the person getting the dog.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

David,

What's been the average age of the dogs in your program and what has been their life before you get them? I'm also assuming that prior to you signing them on, the dogs have been tested for suitability for the work.

Terrasita


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

Bob, give me a few behaviors in the dog that you think indicated adjusted vs. not adjusted in the latest stages of becoming comfortable. We're not talking here about knowing where to go take a dump. I'm talking about things like stopping alerting on normal goings on in the neighborhood outside the house but retaining the alert for subtle but outstanding occurrences.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

With my terriers the "normal" goings on were always alerted on. :lol: 
I've always said the best combination for house guarding is a small terrier and a large GSD/Rott/Dobe/etc.
The terriers will alert on anything, anythime and get the larger dog fired up. 
Some dogs are pacers. I think that's a bit harder to read because they always seem to be "on". 
When you go out to the kennel WITH someone they don't know, they shouldn't react as much once they have accepted you. Of course there are dogs that will always be reactive to someone they don't know. 
With a sharp/edgy dog it would be when they start greeting you instead of rasing hell or still acting suspissious.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Emilio,

Are you looking for territoriality and when the dog displays his protection/guard instinct regarding the new handler/owner [assuming that's a trait he has]? I don't know seems that age, bond to previous handler, etc. would come into play. That said, I've had an arbitrary 30 day rule where I don't ask anything of pooch, just out and about with me, ball time etc. Usually, sometime within that time frame or not to much later than that, I will see the instinctive guard behaviors if its that kind of dog. But there is no hard and fast rule. It has varied from dog to dog when I've gotten them 6 months and beyond. Its kinda like Jay set out. 

Terrasita


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> David,
> 
> What's been the average age of the dogs in your program and what has been their life before you get them? I'm also assuming that prior to you signing them on, the dogs have been tested for suitability for the work.
> 
> Terrasita


Average age is 18 - 24 months. I've taken single purpose detection as early as 12 but I'd prefer not too. Yes, they been tested for suitability, including physical and xrays.

DFrost


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

I guess the time frame can vary greatly. I'm seeing subtle changes 3 months after taking the dog. If anyone's interested they can post about some of the later appearing behaviors they've experienced that indicate the dog is making a full adjustment.


Bob Scott said:


> I've always said the best combination for house guarding is a small terrier and a large GSD/Rott/Dobe/etc.


This is an accepted norm for some situations where property protection is required. I believe there's a value in it. However I prefer the way my dog does it. It's a large dog (rott) but he's quick to alert to sounds that sometimes I can't even hear and quick to get up and check things out. It's a very nice quality to see in a big and otherwise calm dog. As I said over the last 3 months he has gone from alerting on almost all sounds to only reacting to something unusual.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

David,

I assume they haven't lived as someone's personal dogs but were raised and worked more in a kennel environment with different exposures?

Terrasita


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

For my guy the biggest change was going from a kennel environment to a house. We had a big issue with marking in the house in the beginning… no manners when it came to new play things like sofa cushions…. And climbing on the tables and counter tops. 

As far as the family goes…. It took about two months and four puncture wounds on my then 9 year old daughter to get things worked out.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

It's great that you brought that up. That was one of the changes in mine that I was trying to remember. I'll tell you a little bit about how it went because I had to give it some thought. As you know it's not the best way to start a relationship with a new dog by making corrections. So I avoided this by kenneling the dog for a few days before bringing it in the house. This is a strong male that likes to mark everywhere so I was pretty sure as soon as I get him in the house he'll lift his leg. I thought which approach to take since I didn't really know whether the dog would have a go at me. I concluded that I better set the rules from the start no matter how he's going to take it. But I took precautions, I left a longe line on him in the house and held on to the other end. Sure enough as soon as he came in the house he did a circuit of sniffing out the living room and then lifted his leg on the couch. I immediately corrected him from a distance at the same time giving the "heeeey!".

That one correction carried me through almost two months of avoiding conflict with the dog. He is a very smart dog and understood. Later he also turned out to be quite sensitive to me so I could make more intimate corrections. But check out how the rest of the house breaking took place. Over the next two months on occasion I'd find little squirts of pee in strategic locations. Some would piss (no pun intended) me off more than others like the corner of the bed. Fortunately when males do this they don't urinate too much. But this went on and on every 2 or 3 days there would be a little something. We've taken to keeping bedroom doors closed, the wife was getting pissed too because he always marked her bed. I needed to correct him but was never able to catch him in the act.

About 2.5 months after bringing him to the house finally I got my chance. Something gave me the idea he was going to lift his leg and I was watching him pretending I'm not watching.. and he went for it. I gave a "heeeey!" grabbed the collar and cheeks with both hands and gave him a what for. That fixed it once and for all, after about 2.5 months. If he wasn't such a good dog I might have lost my cool and dragged him over to a puddle after the fact much earlier than that.

Counter tops and tables he got to respect fairly quickly, I don't tolerate nonsense in the kitchen and all of his attempts were made when we were there. Also being attentive to the sound of a dog putting his front legs on the counter is a quick way of controlling it. I believe that after a couple of times the dog knows he can't do it without making a sound that will alert you so he gives it up.

I have a 3 year old daughter so aggression with the child was something I was really looking out for. Fortunately there was no defensive or possessive aggression. I did have to crank down hard on him for focusing on her as a prey/play object. I would say we're %99 done.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

It's hard sometimes to draw the line between the dog becoming comfortable and getting conditioned to new experiences. I'd go out on a limb here, I believe that my dog relaxing while being bathed is a sign of getting comfortable. It's hard to imagine that a dog wouldn't have had the experience of being bathed at 3 years of age. So, it's very nice to see, almost enjoying it I'd say in comparison to the first few times where he was trying to avoid the situation. I always try to make it a bit like a massage for the dog, if I really like it. It's 3 months now that he's with me.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> David,
> 
> I assume they haven't lived as someone's personal dogs but were raised and worked more in a kennel environment with different exposures?
> 
> Terrasita


To be honest, when you buy from a vendor, it's hard to tell. My guess would be, just from some of the actions of the dog, they were raised in a kennel environment. Of course we are really concerned for solid nerves, so that is part of our test. I think many in Europe approach it a lot differently than we do. They aren't necessarily raised in a heated/air conditioned house. Often times, not all that much time is spent with them as puppies. I could be wrong, but I've had several from Europe tell me that. 

DFrost


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