# Working dogs and hunting dogs...different



## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

In some of the discussions of drives, hunting type dogs have come up a few times, and my belief is that their drives are somewhat different. Just for background, my family were hound men, it was normal to have somewhere close to ten foxhounds and coonhounds around the house, along with a border collie to work livestock. 

The thing that always struck me as odd with a tracking type hound is that the drive is for the track, not the animal. Our dogs were mostly walker foxhounds, or a local variety called a July (they were solid usually red, taller thinner, faster, noted for speed). If a tracking hound caught sight of a coyote and left the track to attempt to catch him or cut across and force him to the ground, that was considered a major fault. In other words, if he were overcome with a prey type drive and left the track, he was not 'honest'. They are expected to always straddle the track so to speak. 

The other oddity is that while they are the epitome of laziness, they are capable of running a coyote for a full day, often running till their pads were worn completely off, came in a rack of bones, literally ran themselves to death. These foxhounds also burned the candle from both ends, not long lived at all, as you can imagine. We were fortunate to have a pair of hounds who were noted in the area as tough, gritty fighters, one was a particularly tough guy, scarred all over, all balls and no brains, the other would stand back, let the one take his licks, then dive in with perfect timing, and throat the coyote, or often grab him between his front legs in the chest, I'm assuming crushing the heart, nonetheless the coyote was dead. This pair easily killed any coyote by themselves, and we were typically killing between 100 and 130 a year.

The truly baffling thing to me about the hounds was that if they hadn't spent some time pursuing the coyote, they were kind of disinterested in them. We had some young dogs we wanted to introduce to fighting a coyote, caught one in a trap, took a hogcatcher (wire loop on a handle that you pulled tight around a hog's snout for the city raised people) around his mouth and wired his legs together. The two old hounds who had been in on the kill of hundreds of coyotes, just sniffed him and walked away, disiniterested. WTF? Obviously there is more than just the drive to catch one, they have to run them a while. 

I guess my point with all this is that they obviously have a prey drive, but it is track driven, not chase (sight) driven. They would absolutely not lift their head to chase a ball, but chase a coyote for ten hours on track.

Bird dogs on the other hand, the good English pointers, are almost as wired and crazy as a Mali or Dutch shepherd, and easy to train as well. 

Anyone else have any observations?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Yeah man, got a curr and a shepherd, complete opposite dogs, gsd is easiest dog I ever trained, curr is the hardest. 

Guess which one has the highest iq and which has the most ball drive.

Cur will kill almost anything but avoid people. Shep looks like he will do man work but just looks at large prey all funny like and confused.

I love owning both.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks for sharing your insights. I don't have your experience in hounds, but from the little I have seen, I would agree with you.

The only hounds I have seen in a "working" capacity were either ones I have found after they had been lost hunting...presumably following their noses for a couple of days on their own, or the odd hound used to "push" or "dog" ungulates towards lines of hunters on some hunts I have been on.

Even the "pet" (usually adopted) hounds I have seen around here seem to have the kind of instincts you are talking about, though I have seen some that would leave a track to chase game.

But as you say, none of them would really give a crap about balls and the like. I thought your observation about having to have gotten into the "track" or "hunt" to really be into the "prey" at the end was quite interesting.

Most bird dogs I know, water and or upland dogs, do seem to be crazy about toys, and therefore, easier to train for other venues (detection, SAR). I am assuming it is the importance placed on retrieving that is the difference. Also the fact that they have been air scenters, not really bred for the "track" And since not all retriever training is done on game...toys seem to have been used. Maybe so much so that some retrievers have lost some "birdiness", but may still be wild about toys.

I also think it is interesting that working retrievers have almost always traditionally been force fetched.

I think it is awesome to watch a dog do what it was bred to do. Be they hounds, retrievers, or the herders. It is cool to see the instincts and selective breeding at work.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

So, are you saying that the dog is hunting coyotes [tracking] and its a considered a fault if he starts to chase a coyote that he sees? Or, was the dog tracking something else and its considered a fault if he chases a coyote and leaves his track?


Terrasita


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Julys, are running walkers. There are also treeing walkers. Most hounds were bred for the chase and thus, are considered "sporting" dogs. Plotts and redbones in part, leave the spectrum of sporting dogs to an extent. Then, also in hunting circles, you have what are referred to as "meat" dogs that generally won't even take a track unless it is fresh enough that they think they can catch the prey. Different dogs altogether.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

It is a fault if he leaves the track. Going after one from initial sighting would be OK in my book.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Julys, are running walkers. There are also treeing walkers. Most hounds were bred for the chase and thus, are considered "sporting" dogs. Plotts and redbones in part, leave the spectrum of sporting dogs to an extent. Then, also in hunting circles, you have what are referred to as "meat" dogs that generally won't even take a track unless it is fresh enough that they think they can catch the prey. Different dogs altogether.


The Julys in our area, were quite different from what was considered a walker foxhound, a bit faster, mostly were not blanket backed like a typical walker. The treeing walker of course is a coonhound basically. We used to have a few old timers that liked to breed in some treeing walkers with their foxhounds to come up with dogs that they believed had a little colder nose. The coonhound types tended to be too slow to keep up well in most cases however. They wanted them to use as a 'jump' dog.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Very interesting. Rings true but nice to learn more about these different hounds.

Most bloodhounds I have seen could care less about a ball. We also have some non-hounds on our team that work as trailing dogs who are not particularly ball driven.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

With a lot of dogs, hound or otherwise, I think the act of tracking/trailing is reward in itself.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

jim stevens said:


> If a tracking hound caught sight of a coyote and left the track to attempt to catch him or cut across and force him to the ground, that was considered a major fault. In other words, if he were overcome with a prey type drive and left the track, he was not 'honest'. They are expected to always straddle the track so to speak.


That's really interesting. It sounds a lot like schutzhund tracking. 



> This pair easily killed any coyote by themselves, and we were typically killing between 100 and 130 a year.


Were these dogs honest and straddled the track too?




> I guess my point with all this is that they obviously have a prey drive, but it is track driven, not chase (sight) driven.


So these dogs simply tracked for the sake of tracking?


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## Travis Ragin (Apr 10, 2010)

jim stevens said:


> Anyone else have any observations?


Yes,this(whole) thread is a great read to me!......thanks for starting itO


t


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

so hounds primarily ground scent???


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Christopher Smith said:


> That's really interesting. It sounds a lot like schutzhund tracking.
> 
> Were these dogs honest and straddled the track too?
> 
> ...


Yes, these pair were honest hounds, the one (named Chet) was pretty slow, but a ballsy fighter. Probably half of the ones they killed were run to ground, or a pond tube, etc, and twisted out with wire. These dogs are fast enough to eventually run (especially younger coyotes) down on their own if the weather conditions are compatible with tracking. In other words, you need a little humidity, and hopefully not too windy for the best use of trail dogs. Dry weather sucks for tracking dogs (and pointing dogs too).

The danger with a dog that cuts across by sight is that some of the other dogs follow, and if the dog guesses wrong and misses the quarry, blows up the whole race. That is a crime punishable by death for a hound man if it happens very often! When you talk about selective breeding, these guys won't sell a shitty dog, they get a .22 bullet and save the collar. Maybe a little hard core but you get the point. They would be the polar opposite of a puppy mill.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> so hounds primarily ground scent???


I don't know that I can answer that, but my assumption is that when the track is hot they can run it by scent in the air. I know for a fact that after they have run one for an hour or two, I've had a coyote come by too fast for a shot and I can smell them, so I have no doubt that they don't have to have their head in the track. 

As an answer, I believe they primarily ground scent, or at least till the animal is 'jumped'. Once they have one moving, their heads are more up, and so I assume they are no longer ground tracking. 

I've also seen some crafty old cold trailers track a coyote in the snow by looking at the tracks when they are too cold to smell. I know they were looking at tracks in the snow, 'cause about half the time, the damn dog was going the wrong way! They had probably done it enough times that they learned eventually the track got hot and they jumped one, but couldn't tell whether they were backtracking or not. Backtracking a cold trail in the snow doesn't work quite so well, but i've seen dogs do it. Nor is it a good situation.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Just for the ones not familiar with it, when I said 'twisting out' a coyote, you take a length of barbed wire, put a loop in it, run it down a pond tube, etc, twist it into the fur, back up, coming out with a live coyote on about 100 feet of barbed wire. Let the fun begin then! Hopefully by the time you get him out of the hole, there are some hounds around to help out.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Oh, dear. I hate coyotes but why would you not just shoot the thing and quickly kill it?


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

It's not really safe to shoot down a metal tube with 5 men and half a dozen dogs around. Having been a part of nature from Alaska to Zimbabwe, nature is pretty cruel. I was a bit afraid it would seem a little rough, but not much compared to three or four wolves eating the hindquarter off a caribou that's still alive. I don't even hate coyotes, have a lot of respect for them, since they are adapters and survivors. That is more than I can say for a lot of humans. I've always had a bit different outlook on a lot of things, having spent a lot of time being a part of nature, as opposed to someone outside looking in. I'm planning a moose hunt with my buddy in Alaska, now, a drop hunt, we provide all our own tent, supplies, food, pay a pilot to fly us in, dump our stuff out, come back in a week. Hopefully we'll get to backpack about 1300 pounds of meat back to camp a mile or two.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

You're not the Jim Stevens who ran a business in Paul ID in the early eighties?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

America has like bazillions of people everywheres, chance of that??


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Nope. Been to Idaho once, hunted in the neighborhood of Yellow Pine and Big Creek. Packed in about 10 miles and had a horse panic and went off the side of a pack bridge into the river with our tent. Not something I'll ever forget!


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Because THAT Jim Stevens helped Claude Dallas bury the game warden's body in a coyote den.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Because THAT Jim Stevens helped Claude Dallas bury the game warden's body in a coyote den.


Now there's something I can say I've never done!


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

I just googled it and Wikipedia tells the story including the hiding of the body in a coyote den. It doesn't say what happened to him although he was a witness and accomplice.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Claude Dallas. Don't hear about that boy much these days. Got out of prison a couple years ago. He's kind of a folk hero in places. LOL Killed two wardens that day wasnh't it?....a green one and the other senior one that just had to go f*** with Claude to show off.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

so aside from the tracking angle, we can agree that hunting dogs in many ways cannot really be compared to other types of working dogs.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Yep. Not much training with a hound, turn him loose with the pack. I just thought it was interesting that their drive is strictly track oriented.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

And in many ways they can. Not that I know anything about hunting dogs, depending on the breed and hunting style, there's flushing/searching, apprehending quarry, pointing (indicating), retreiving, baying (barkn'hold)...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> And in many ways they can. Not that I know anything about hunting dogs, depending on the breed and hunting style, there's flushing/searching, apprehending quarry, pointing (indicating), retreiving, baying (barkn'hold)...


true Daryl very true...you are right, that was not worded very well.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


> so aside from the tracking angle, we can agree that hunting dogs in many ways cannot really be compared to other types of working dogs.


I think it depends on the type of hunting dog. Like Daryl pointed out there are a lot of types of hunting. I know a couple of brokers who prefer certain hunting breeds (pointers, viszla, labs, etc) for detection work over the herders. You don't see as many hounds being used, but there is the Beagle Brigade. So for some types of hunting, the drives cross over into other types of work. 

I think the mistake is when people assume it will always cross over, that being good in one type of work, or having drives in one area, means it will exist in other areas. I don't think anyone will argue working BCs can have some crazy drives, but they aren't a good choice for bitework even if they will take on an angry momma cow or bull. And I don't see to many people using them for detection work, although I know of a few. Their drives can be so specialized as to have limited use outside of what they were bred for. I think the same is true of some hunting breeds.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I think it depends on the type of hunting dog. Like Daryl pointed out there are a lot of types of hunting. I know a couple of brokers who prefer certain hunting breeds (pointers, viszla, labs, etc) for detection work over the herders. You don't see as many hounds being used, but there is the Beagle Brigade. So for some types of hunting, the drives cross over into other types of work.
> 
> I think the mistake is when people assume it will always cross over, that being good in one type of work, or having drives in one area, means it will exist in other areas. I don't think anyone will argue working BCs can have some crazy drives, but they aren't a good choice for bitework even if they will take on an angry momma cow or bull. And I don't see to many people using them for detection work, although I know of a few. Their drives can be so specialized as to have limited use outside of what they were bred for. I think the same is true of some hunting breeds.


thank you Kadi, that is more of what I was meaning to say...


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

When I was in Europe I noticed many hunters that used their birddogs for tracking and hunting game too. Many were pretty good on waterfowl as well if the weather wasn't too cold. I think EU continental hunters like a more versatile dog than hunters in the UK and USA... we seem to like a different dog for each separate task. 

And then there were those awful little jagd and heideterriers they have...
But even with those you can find a line that suits your purpose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdwuSfGglbo


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

When hunting in Africa, all the PH's that I was around kept a pair of dogs for tracking wounded game, etc. They were all Jack Russell's, at least the ones I have hunted with.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I did natural earth work with terriers for a number of years. Different breeds, different styles for the most part.
The Jagds had the best trailing nose hands down but most were to big for American dens.
The Borders and Patterdales were hard to the extreme in the ground. Most were to willing to take a trashing to finish the quarry.
In spite of their crazy mofo attitude in everyday life the JRTs were actually the best baying and bolting dogs in the ground. You could hunt them day after day with no worries about layup time to recoup from injuries.
I've seen exceptions to all this but this is my take on average.


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

I don't really remember seeing many JRT's in Europe. I think they are more of a US/UK thing. I did see a really wide variety of jagd terriers though, and many of them were bred specifically for work underground. The bigger dogs were obviously not meant for that sort of thing, but they seem to be the type that has been exported. 

Personally, I didn't really care for them... they tend to be lacking in brains, and many are dog aggressive or hyper or both. Their cousins the heideterriers seemed a lot smarter and generally easier to have around. I didn't see any Westfalenterriers, but they are supposed to be very good.

The dackels were my favorite... really cool dogs.

Either way, they continental EU hunting breeds seem to be designed with versatility in mind. Like I said, they use their pointers for tracking and hunting game, and many of them would make good retrievers, at least in the early season. This seems to be the case a lot less often with US/UK bred dogs, where many prefer a different dog for each job. Maybe that's why most of the police/guarding/bite-work breeds were originally herders on the EU continent... versatility.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

catherine hardigan said:


> Either way, they continental EU hunting breeds seem to be designed with versatility in mind. Like I said, they use their pointers for tracking and hunting game, and many of them would make good retrievers, at least in the early season. This seems to be the case a lot less often with US/UK bred dogs, where many prefer a different dog for each job. Maybe that's why most of the police/guarding/bite-work breeds were originally herders on the EU continent... versatility.


in minnesota you cant use dogs for any big game. you cant even use one to track wounded game. that leaves small game and birds. any bird dog that wasted its time chasing rabbit and squirrels would get broken of that quick. people do run racoons with dogs but most people dont want anything to do with racoons and those that do seem to be more into the hounds than actually hunting racoons. i dont know other states laws but im guessing they are similar.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> I don't really remember seeing many JRT's in Europe. I think they are more of a US/UK thing. I did see a really wide variety of jagd terriers though, and many of them were bred specifically for work underground. The bigger dogs were obviously not meant for that sort of thing, but they seem to be the type that has been exported.
> 
> Personally, I didn't really care for them... they tend to be lacking in brains, and many are dog aggressive or hyper or both. Their cousins the heideterriers seemed a lot smarter and generally easier to have around. I didn't see any Westfalenterriers, but they are supposed to be very good.
> 
> ...



I've dug to mini Dackles/Daschunds in the ground. Nasty with anyone that isn't it's owner. The JRTs, Borders, Patterdales, Fells, "most" of the Jagds, for the most part would let anyone pull them out of the ground. With The Daschs it better be mom or dad if they wanted to keep their fingers. :lol:
As to the Euro hunting breeds I had a great Wiemaraner back when they were still serious workers. That meant strangers beware as well as hunting. Close working dog. He was a nice bird dog that could also run a rabbit down and bring it to hand and still let you know he wouldn't tolerate anyone near the family that he didn't know.


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

"Personally, I didn't really care for them... they tend to be lacking in brains, and many are dog aggressive or hyper or both. Their cousins the heideterriers seemed a lot smarter and generally easier to have around. I didn't see any Westfalenterriers, but they are supposed to be very good.

Heideterriers are basically Jagdterrier Airedale cross. I've spoken to someone who has hunted them and as said above thry have most of the hunt of the Jagd but are more trainable and faster.
In the US a fellow tried about the same cross,called them Piedmont terriers but apparently lost his first litter on a bear hunt!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

One of the misconceptions here is the title. All hunting dogs are not hounds. Terriers could give a rip about the track other than it is a means to a fight at the end. Many curs, also not hounds, hunt differently than hounds. Many are closed mouth, like airedales, and are considered "meat" dogs. They intend to catch the prey so they don't run around the country bawling telling the prey...."Here we come!!!". The difference between sporting hounds and meat dogs is similar to the difference between bitesport dogs and good police dogs.

Jamie, laws from state to state varies a lot. Here in Ca, we can use dogs for bear, hogs, deer, bobcat, fox etc. Only thing so far we can't run is mt lions. Of course they are trying to stop using dogs altogether again....so we will see. MNost are surproised that we can use dogs for deer. One dog per hunter, so, if you are hunting with 5 friends, you can use five dogs. In Ga, bulldogs and airedales are outlawed on their public access lands, but it is too early to remember what they are called. WMA's!!! That's what they are.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

also in mn most land is private so it is difficult to hunt anythingi but bird dogs. If you see a dog running deer it is legal to shoot it.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

_" laws from state to state varies a lot. Here in Ca, we can use dogs for bear, hogs, deer, bobcat, fox etc. Only thing so far we can't run is mt lions"_

I'm not certain, but I think in MT the only hunting we can do with dogs IS mt lions.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

I know some people who hunt mt lions with hounds, I think they are from Bighorn, but don't remember if Wy. or Mt, but close to the border, last name is Adamson.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Daryl Ehret said:


> _" laws from state to state varies a lot. Here in Ca, we can use dogs for bear, hogs, deer, bobcat, fox etc. Only thing so far we can't run is mt lions"_
> 
> I'm not certain, but I think in MT the only hunting we can do with dogs IS mt lions.


Believe your right Daryl. The grizzlies had something to do with that. Some folks living in Condon ,Mt had two of my dogs years ago. He calls me and tells me he has a grizzly living in his yard. Well the guy had five kids under 5, but they would see this big bear sleeping in the bushes right at the house. His property backed up to the John Marshal Wilderness so the bear had other options, but, he wanted to know what I would do. I told him the three S's was in order. Well, he followed my advice....almost. The three S's did not include driving down the state highway with the damned thing in the back of his PU. Game warden showed up at his house the next day. Cost him dearly for being stupid. Turns out the bear was relocated from Glacier Ntl. Park

The people that have the auto dealership in Miles City have one of my females. You anywhere around there?


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

That's *Bob* Marshall Wilderness, Don. Miles City is about 180 miles east of me, but halfway between is Bighorn. Bighorn is just a couple miles from Custer, where one of my pups went. Anything east of me is pretty much flatter, more open, and less appealing country.

This is about 40 to 50 miles south of me, but I'm located in the foothills of the mountains.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Daryl Ehret said:


> That's *Bob* Marshall Wilderness, Don. Miles City is about 180 miles east of me, but halfway between is Bighorn. Bighorn is just a couple miles from Custer, where one of my pups went. Anything east of me is pretty much flatter, more open, and less appealing country.
> 
> This is about 40 to 50 miles south of me, but I'm located in the foothills of the mountains.


That's right, I am the one that is just outside the John Muir Wilderness. LOL Beautiful country there, Daryl.


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

Very Interesting thread.
The Deutsche Drahthaar folks seem to be the ones that are most insistent of breeding a all-around Hunting dog via their Hunt Certification.
As with anything .a specialist will always beat a generalist tho.
I have no real experience with Draats beyond talking to folks that have them, so take that for what its worth.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Bighorn is about 90 miles east of me, and Red Lodge about 50 miles south/south east. There are MT lion hunters about halfway between Red Lodge and Columbus (where I live) that have lost their hounds to wolves. Red Lodge is a bit east of where this picture was taken. Custer himself used to hunt wolves in this region of country with dogs.



> North America
> 
> In North America wolf hunting with hounds was done in the context of pest control rather than sport. George Armstrong Custer enjoyed wolf coursing with dogs, and favoured large greyhounds and staghounds. Of the latter, he took a pair of large, white, shaggy animals which he would turn loose against wolves in the Sioux sacred Black Hills.[7] In his book Hunting the Grisly and Other Sketches, Theodore Roosevelt wrote that greyhound crossbreeds were a favourite of his, and wrote that exclusively purebred greyhounds were unnecessary, sometimes to the point of uselessness in a wolf hunt. Some bulldog blood in the dogs was considered helpful, though not essential. Roosevelt wrote that many ranchmen of Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana in the final decade of the 19th century managed to breed greyhound or deerhound packs capable of killing wolves unassisted, if numbering in three or more. These greyhounds were usually thirty inches at the shoulder and weighed 90 lbs. These American greyhounds apparently outclassed imported Russian borzois in hunting wolves.[8] Wolf hunting with dogs became a specialised pursuit in the 1920s, with well trained and pedigreed dogs being used. Several wolfhounds were killed in wolf hunts in the warden sponsored Wisconsin Conservation Department of the 1930s. These losses induced the state to begin a dog insurance policy in order to reimburse wolf hunters.[9] Wolf hunting with dogs is now illegal in the USA.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_hunting_with_dogs


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

Jeff Wright said:


> Very Interesting thread.
> The Deutsche Drahthaar folks seem to be the ones that are most insistent of breeding a all-around Hunting dog via their Hunt Certification.
> As with anything .a specialist will always beat a generalist tho.
> I have no real experience with Draats beyond talking to folks that have them, so take that for what its worth.


i have hunted over Drahts on birds , pretty good pointing dog not as fast or ground covering as English pointer or setters but good. Tougher dogs than those thought this Eastern Bloc vid of Drahts of interest...no place for setters 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRE-PxnYccE&feature=related


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

Bob Scott said:


> I did natural earth work with terriers for a number of years. Different breeds, different styles for the most part.
> The Jagds had the best trailing nose hands down but most were to big for American dens.
> 
> This link is interesting and shows how I have seen Jagts becoming very popular with the Southern and Texas Hog Hunters.
> ...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Wright said:


> Bob Scott said:
> 
> 
> > I did natural earth work with terriers for a number of years. Different breeds, different styles for the most part.
> ...


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## David Krider (Mar 19, 2011)

This is a great topic and brings back good memories. I was fortunate enough to  be able to work with competitive sled dog racing teams made up of Reg. Treeing Walker Coonhounds. A man on the North East coast, Dom Blodgett, had a competition line of Treeing Walkers and he felt that anything any other dog could do his dogs could do better. After a few years he made a believer out of most people that raced against him. He sold the main part of his kennel to Mike Murfin in Minnesota. With the hound mans guidance on how to treat and train the dogs Mike who had been a competitive racer with huskies made the transition and became very competitive in a very competitive sport. 

Racing husky teams with pairs of dogs reaching out up to 100 feet ahead move across the terrain like a silent smooth train with the speed not varying very much from start to finish. The goal was to be able to average 20 mph. That is a 3 minute mile for up to 25 miles.
Hounds ran the scent and ran the chase, and when you were making your best time the dogs were anything but silent. These dogs raced in sprints of up to 25 mph for a few miles then dropped down to about 15mph, a 4 minute mile, for a mile or two. 
The huskies could be driven, the hounds had to have fun.
When the husky type dog ran it was quite smooth, when the hounds ran at 15 mph it was all ears and elbows, but when they hit 25 mph it was poetry in motion.

The feeding, handling, training, and the way the hounds ran was quite different than husky type racing dogs. People that tried to treat the Walker as a Husky had little to no success, and combining the hounds with huskies had little success, but treating the hound as a hound kept Mike in the top level of competition untill he retired and dispersed.
Several dogs on the team were Trial Champions. Expensive dogs in their own rite.
I learned a lot about the different ways different dogs perform, and dogs can cross over if we know how to help them do it.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Thanks for relating that Dave - I have only seen pictures of the Blodgett hound teams and a few blurbs about them in different books - real interesting stuff!


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