# Warning all Mal owners - health issues? seizures?



## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

So I recently spoke with a Doberman breeder (AKC show bloodlines) telling her that my next dog will be a Malinois. She wanted to be sure to warn me about all of the health problems that Malinois have, and how everybody here in the USA is “hush, hush” about it… covering up all of the many health problems that exist. She said there is a huge problem with seizure disorders and temperament problems, among many other health issues. She wants to put me in touch with a judge (before I make a decision to get a Mal) who has been involved in the breed for years and who can tell me about all of the problems that the breed has. After giving me this warning, she then proceeded to tell me that the Malinois is a breed that she’s never had any interest in. 

So, here is my question to you… I’m thinking, perhaps, that all these huge issues that she is describing are related to show bloodlines? I’ve been doing lots of research on the breed. I’ve been in touch with different breeders and have even been in touch with their puppy owners as these dogs grow up. I’m looking at getting a Mal from working bloodlines and NOT show bloodlines. So with this in mind, are our working Malinois bloodlines suffering from all kinds of health issues and seizure disorders? In all of my research, personal contacts, and all of my online forums, I have not run into any personal stories that reflect the huge warnings that I was getting… Wondering, to all the Mal owners (or past owners) on this forum, what your thoughts are on this issue? (Oh, she also indicated that the Europeans aren't being honest either... Not just us in the goold 'ole USA.)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Huh?

Even though I do not have one, I do read up constantly every vet school pub as well as WDJ and all the online dog health e-zines.

I know about skin allergies similar to GSDs (but not as common in Mals), and some dysplasia (again, not as common with Mals as with GSDs).

Nothing about breed-specific seizure disorders.

P.S. I can't wait to read what Mal owners/breeders have to say.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Erica Boling said:


> ... many other health issues.


What were they? Did she say?


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

There can be issues with seizures, just like with any breed....sounds like she is making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the Mals. 

If I am correct...it has a lot to do with the breedings/bloodlines...not really a hush hush thing at all if you do your research.....


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We only have 10 Mals, so I can't speak all that broadly. We've not had any of the problems though, with the ones we have. Saw several hundred while I was still in the military, that was up to '88. Never saw that much of a problem there either. I am noticiing more problems with Labs in the last 10 years, but not the Mal, yet. I'm sure as it becomes even more popular and is bred more frequently here in the states, they'll have more and more problems. 

DFrost


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I asked a similar question before on this board. You can read why I asked it and some of the replies 


http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/malinois-health-issues-7809/


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Erica Boling said:


> So I recently spoke with a Doberman breeder (AKC show bloodlines) telling her that my next dog will be a Malinois. She wanted to be sure to warn me about all of the health problems that Malinois have, and how everybody here in the USA is “hush, hush” about it… covering up all of the many health problems that exist. She said there is a huge problem with seizure disorders and temperament problems, among many other health issues. She wants to put me in touch with a judge (before I make a decision to get a Mal) who has been involved in the breed for years and who can tell me about all of the problems that the breed has. After giving me this warning, she then proceeded to tell me that the Malinois is a breed that she’s never had any interest in.
> 
> So, here is my question to you… I’m thinking, perhaps, that all these huge issues that she is describing are related to show bloodlines? I’ve been doing lots of research on the breed. I’ve been in touch with different breeders and have even been in touch with their puppy owners as these dogs grow up. I’m looking at getting a Mal from working bloodlines and NOT show bloodlines. So with this in mind, are our working Malinois bloodlines suffering from all kinds of health issues and seizure disorders? In all of my research, personal contacts, and all of my online forums, I have not run into any personal stories that reflect the huge warnings that I was getting… Wondering, to all the Mal owners (or past owners) on this forum, what your thoughts are on this issue? (Oh, she also indicated that the Europeans aren't being honest either... Not just us in the goold 'ole USA.)


 
This makes me Laugh from a Dobe Breeder!

I have had 10+ of my own Mals and seen countless others, Health was the LAST of the issues I ever thought of.


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Erica Boling said:


> So I recently spoke with a Doberman breeder (AKC show bloodlines) telling her that my next dog will be a Malinois. She wanted to be sure to warn me about all of the health problems that Malinois have, and how everybody here in the USA is “hush, hush” about it… covering up all of the many health problems that exist. She said there is a huge problem with seizure disorders and temperament problems, among many other health issues. She wants to put me in touch with a judge (before I make a decision to get a Mal) who has been involved in the breed for years and who can tell me about all of the problems that the breed has. After giving me this warning, she then proceeded to tell me that the Malinois is a breed that she’s never had any interest in.
> 
> So, here is my question to you… I’m thinking, perhaps, that all these huge issues that she is describing are related to show bloodlines? I’ve been doing lots of research on the breed. I’ve been in touch with different breeders and have even been in touch with their puppy owners as these dogs grow up. I’m looking at getting a Mal from working bloodlines and NOT show bloodlines. So with this in mind, are our working Malinois bloodlines suffering from all kinds of health issues and seizure disorders? In all of my research, personal contacts, and all of my online forums, I have not run into any personal stories that reflect the huge warnings that I was getting… Wondering, to all the Mal owners (or past owners) on this forum, what your thoughts are on this issue? (Oh, she also indicated that the Europeans aren't being honest either... Not just us in the goold 'ole USA.)


Sounds like she doesn't know what she is talking about if you ask me, that, or she is trying to sell you a doberman puppy, by shitting on the Malinois. 

My mal is the the perfect dog, and is very healthy, all the other Mals I work are all healthy also.
Tell this breeder to do his/her homework before shitting on the Malinois.
Really, is this breeder in anyway trying to say that the doberman is healthier than the malinois? If so, this breeder is a joke.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

And the Dobie's health issues are?! Oh let me count the ways  Prepare your cheekbook ;-)~

For her to even suggest that the Malinois' is not a healthy breed overall, makes me suspect of her integrity. Even if she felt that way, the fact that would repeat it to others, shows her transparent colors. 

Maybe she would care to provide some statistics to back up her silly claims?!?!? Hmmm =;


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kyle Sprag said:


> This makes me Laugh from a Dobe Breeder!


That is pretty amusing, now that you mention it.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> What were they? Did she say?


No, she didn't give any other suggestions. She said she'll put me in touch with a judge who can give me all the details....


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I asked a similar question before on this board. You can read why I asked it and some of the replies
> 
> 
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/malinois-health-issues-7809/


 
Thanks! An informative thread...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Accusing Mals of having hush hush problems from some of the worst breeders ever to exist on the planet. Lying swindling money grubbers. The origin of kennel blind comes from Dobe breeders, as they have bred genetic time bombs repeatedly, knowingly, and with abandon. lol


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Erica Boling said:


> No, she didn't give any other suggestions. She said she'll put me in touch with a judge who can give me all the details....


I can't wait to get the details.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I can't wait to get the details.


When she gives me the name of the guy, I think I'll give him a call. Will give a full report when I have more information! So far, everything that is being posted here and on a Malinois discussion forum supports what I originally thought. However, I figured I could have missed something in all my research and thought I'd at least ask the question to those who have had a good bit of experience with the breed. I do know of some Tervs that have had issues with seizures, but I wasn't sure how common it was in Mals.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I cant think of many dogs with more serious health issues than Dobermans. I read this original post and actually laughed outloud when I saw that this "advice" about poor health in a Malinois was given by an AKC Doberman breeder!! I dont even know where to begin with this, but I will say that my experience has been that compared to the Doberman and the GSD, the Malinois and Dutchie are by far the most healthy.
Sometimes we find great working Mals and Dutchies that pass all of our rigorous working tests in the Netherlands, but fail for bad hips, but this is actually pretty rare. The only other thing that I usually find related to the health testing of the dogs we test is broken teeth.
In our own breeding program, so far after over 100 puppies born in our kennel, the only health problems we have seen have been from our GSD, or our Mali X GSD cross breedings. We have had one GSD X Mali with a heart problem, one GSD X Mali with a bad hip, one GSD with a bad hip. I did just have to put a Mali puppy to sleep yesterday at 5 weeks old due to improperly developed ligements in his rear legs, but this was a first for us.
We health test our dogs pretty tough, so if there were problems we would see them. 
Trust me on this..............Malinois are overall a very healthy and hardy breed of dog if you get it from a good breeder.
Have the Doberman breeder to call me to discuss and compare health issues on Dobermans vs Malinois.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your feedback. The numbers that you presented are very telling!



mike suttle said:


> I cant think of many dogs with more serious health issues than Dobermans. I read this original post and actually laughed outloud when I saw that this "advice" about poor health in a Malinois was given by an AKC Doberman breeder!! I dont even know where to begin with this, but I will say that my experience has been that compared to the Doberman and the GSD, the Malinois and Dutchie are by far the most healthy.
> Sometimes we find great working Mals and Dutchies that pass all of our rigorous working tests in the Netherlands, but fail for bad hips, but this is actually pretty rare. The only other thing that I usually find related to the health testing of the dogs we test is broken teeth.
> In our own breeding program, so far after over 100 puppies born in our kennel, the only health problems we have seen have been from our GSD, or our Mali X GSD cross breedings. We have had one GSD X Mali with a heart problem, one GSD X Mali with a bad hip, one GSD with a bad hip. I did just have to put a Mali puppy to sleep yesterday at 5 weeks old due to improperly developed ligements in his rear legs, but this was a first for us.
> We health test our dogs pretty tough, so if there were problems we would see them.
> ...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> Have the Doberman breeder to call me to discuss and compare health issues on Dobermans vs Malinois.


Could you record it or take notes for us? :mrgreen:


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Could you record it or take notes for us? :mrgreen:


Yes, please! I too would love to eavesdrop on that conversation... :twisted: \\/ 

The above mentioned health issues is the reason I decided against a dobe (well, that, and the normally complete lack of working temperament/ability that I saw) and got my first mal. Never looked back.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I have "heard" that the lac......Lak.....Lack.....errrr....the curly one has more problems with siezures then the rest of the Belgian Sheps. No idea if it's correcto or just bs.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Don't know about the Laekenois but seizures are huge in Belgian Sheepdogs coming down from a popular sire. I know one of my herding buddy's is very particular about avoiding certain lines for that reason.

Terrasita


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

All I can say is that if I wanted a good Malinois, I would have a number of excellent breeders not far from here to select from. 

Their dogs have been and are extremely successful in Mondioring, French Ring, IPO, Rescue (incl. those belonging to members of the International Rescue Dog) Avalanche, Diensthunde and Army Biathlon, and, and, and.

Some of the dogs have competed until 11 and 12 years' old. I can think of Huby du Domaine St. Loup, World Champion Mondioring '97 and '98 and completed his last competition at 12 years. The Abendweid Kennels used his son, Rusty du Fanon d'Or as stud for their two last litters and I think nearly all these pups are making careers in the army, customs dogs, sport of all kinds, etc.

The comparison to the Dobermann is ludicrous - I wouldn't know where to get one in the whole of Europe - it would be like searching for a needle in a haystack. I'm not saying there aren't any but apart from health problems of which I've known a number to have spinal issues - they are mediocre sport dogs. Our German helper did say he knew of a very good one in Germany, with the emphasis of "a".

If Malinois are so prone to ill health, why are they so successful in dog sport and not just one year at the top but for a few years. A chap I used to go to for schuztdienst runs Chasseralblick Kennels and was once 2x European Champion at the same event!

All the ones I know, and they aren't just a few, are healthy, well-balanced individuals. All breeds have problems. I've heard of their having skin problems, too and having issues of shyness and extreme aggression but I've not come accross more than the odd one or two.


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## Paul Fox (May 25, 2009)

Any issuse these dogs may have will be down to the money grabbing greedy F**ks show dog breeders.

A working Mali will be bred for health and workability. It is all about the right dog and not a poxy peice of paper.

Long live their un popular status. In the UK hardly anyone knows what she is. When they ask, I tell them she is a cross breed (which she is) because as soon as they become popular some scumbag will start breeding brother and sister, then breeding off them regardless of faults because all they think about is £££.

Makes me sick.


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

It's true it's true...Malis are prone to health problems! #-o One should never get a Mali with the expectation of accomplishing any real work or any sort of life longevity! :^o I think that most people should just avoid them all together so the breed doesn't get any _WORSE!_ ;-) 
:mrgreen:


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

As with any dog breed you should monitor their health over the years we have raised breeded , sold ,did all working dog sports still have 5 mals 5 gsd, all are in great shape execpt age like amything else ,Mals need alot of your time training and have sun but are excellent dogs, keith


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Malinois are dogs, and therefore if you can name a health issue, you can probably find a Malinois that has it. However, the percentages are going to be quite small in the breed as a whole.

There are some issues with seizures, but it's not a common problem. The Tervs and Groens have a MUCH higher percentage of seizures then the Malinois, some have estimated 1/3 seize and another 1/3 carry the genes. There is some denial of it in Malinois, I've heard people claim that seizures aren't an issue, even though the aunt, cousin, littermate and great grandfather of the dog they were breeding seized because one was mistreated as a pup, one fell and hit it's head, one ... But grab 50 random Malinois and chances are you won't find a dog in the bunch that has seized, so I wouldn't consider it a big problem.

I have heard some conformation judges are afraid to judge Malinois because of temperament issues, but I've heard of others that love the breed because of their temperament. I think it just depends on the individual and their experiences with the breed, if the first time you meet breed X you have a really bad experience with them, you will always have a tendency towards thinking breed X has a bad temperament, even if 99% of the ones you meet after that have excellent temperaments. Not to mention if someone's breed of choice is laid back, goofy, super outgoing, without a care in the world, they may consider an average Malinois to have a bad temperament just because it doesn't act like they feel a "proper" dog should act. We see examples of this all the time just on this forum, people making negative comments about Malinois because they don't have the temperament/personality they like in a dog. Not to say every Malinois out there has a good temperament, there are many with horrid temperaments, but while "reactive" might not be appropriate in one breed, it can be completely appropriate in another, and not just appropriate but expected.


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