# Border Terriers again



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Well I have wanted a little "bassid" as Bob calls them - some sort of terrier for awhile and I think this Fall / next Winter may work out. I am really interested in the Border Terrier because I don't want dog aggression, want something fun and social, small and sturdy built but not deformed looking (I hate stunty little legs)

I am down to one dog [I had to put Grim to sleep as he started having bleeds with hemangio and was not bouncing back] - Beau - who will be 2 in July - intact male GSD (my certified cadaver dog). 

My disabled mother [stroke] who we have cared for in our home since 2007 is now on hospice. When she is gone I will have time to bring in a new dog.

Thinking fun little pet - perhaps it could take care of the squirrels and chipmunks invading the yard who Beau watches with curiosity but does not chase - but it would mainly be a housepet - maybe still do some cadaver training just for fun but I just figure maybe there is too much gaminess in the little terriers and I just want a dog that can sit in my lap, do tricks, have fun, maybe get into therapy work or do some dogsport. .... next cadaver dog will be a GSD since I am used to them-size is right-temperament right...will start my "last one" in about 4 years. [I will be pushing 62 then and I am not sure I would do another after that - we would have to see....]

Suggestions on how to learn more? (you don't see many of them around) - is there show v work - etc. 

Where to look. 

Best sex to get. 

Neutering or not 

I like to keep a male GSD intact, neuter the female after a few heats and with recent research not so sure about all that.....Not sure if the next GSD will be a male or female. I have never had a male/male issue but there are some advantages to having a female for detection work I think...just in terms of temperament and size. I have seen enough female/female issues to want to avoid that combo.

In terms of management. My working dog(s) are outside all day and come in at night and I figured the little one would be inside most the day [might put it out for critter patrol first] -- I work from home which is sweet...Probably would not leave them alone together unsupervised unless I was 100% but would like them both with me in the house before and after work.

Suggestions on how to prepare and second-guess myself?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

So very sorry to hear about Grim. I've done that many many times in my life and it never gets easier.

Show vs work
I think even the BT show people put more effort in their dogs then most any other breed. Most are active in OB, Terrier trials, races, agility, etc. 

Where to look
The Border Terrier of America has a web site with lots of breeders. The breeder of the two I had is in the Kansas City Mo area. I think her dogs probably hold as many or more multiple titles then any other Border breeder. She has MANY titles on most of her personel dogs, CH, OB, Rally, earth dog, tracking, you name it. My male, Rags's sire Rugby was the most titled border in the States at the time I got Rags back in the early 90. About the only thing she doesn't do is natrual hunting. I can understand that considering the Border's heart. They AREN'T baying dogs.

Best sex
Well it was probably on my 17th birt........:-o8-[ Oh wait! Nevermind! :wink:
I've always preferred males in any breed so I can't pass judgement on that. Bitches can be bitches no matter the breed. 

I'm not a fan of neutering unless it's for a VERY good reason. Both my male and his sire were in the owners yard playing with one another the day after they had both been bred...to females of course. 

The Borders were traditionally kenneled with the hounds so getting along with other dogs was prime if the wanted to survive. I've only seen one line of dog aggressive Borders. It's one of the terriers that in the show ring they don't spar with another of the same sex. I don't think they spar them at all now but they did when I was showing. Sparing in the show ring is nothing more then facing off two dogs to see them "come up on their toes" to see attitude. Even show terriers have it in spades. the Borders, Bull Terriers, Am Staphs and Staffie bull terriers wee never faced off in the show ring. The bulllie breeds because of their heritage and the borders because, again, they were kenneled with the hounds. 

Critter control
Some lines of Border terriers are slow to mature. My male was almost two before he'd even look at a mouse. That changed in one day and he became a critter monster overnight. 
That slowness is what slowed down interest in many modern hunters because a JRT, Fells, patterdale, etc would hunt at 4-5 months if given the chance. the don't have the patience of the old terrier men. 

PM sent!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I am really interested in the Border Terrier because I don't want dog aggression, want something fun and social, small and sturdy built but not deformed looking ...



You have already received help from the expert, so I'll just add that the often-used description of this breed is apt indeed: "a workmanlike little fellow in a plain brown suit."

I love this breed best among all the small dogs.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

My friend has one that is just a doll and so smart. Met her at the agility trial last weekend. I also like what I call the baby airedale--Welsh or Lakeland Terrier. Which one is the tiniest. There's one in my agility class that is cute as a button. So sorry to hear of your loss and what you are going through. My GSDs have been there during the rough times. I'm partial to the girlz and if I had a male, that's probably what I would look at smply because I like a congenial pack. For some reason, I've been able to do better with the intact girlz than the males.

Take care and hang in there.

T


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_
"I am down to one dog [I had to put Grim to sleep as he started having bleeds with hemangio and was not bouncing back] - Beau - who will be 2 in July - intact male GSD (my certified cadaver dog). 

My disabled mother [stroke] who we have cared for in our home since 2007 is now on hospice. When she is gone I will have time to bring in a new dog."_

I'm very sorry about Grim. I'm glad he had you to help ease him down that road before the real misery started. This is probably the hardest thing we do .... and maybe it's the most loving, too. We do this for the dog we love, putting our own loss and grief aside.

JMO.

And boy, you have a full plate, with your mother too .... a lot of drain, I know, despite the love you have. I know the new dog will bring some of the other parts of what life is all about back into the house.


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

My close friend is raising and training them with plans to breed them. (Long time handler, shows in both conformation and obedience, plus has dabbled in earth dog) I find them to be nifty but too high strung for my taste. I grew up with little dog and little terrier like the Rat Terrier. 
They are busy bodies. Into everything but not as naughty as the welsh or a nasty as the lakeland i use to groom. They have less grooming but they must be groomed or they soon look like weeds.
So far most i have met were males. And they are determined leg hikers. Most i see must wear a cunmerbun to prevent hiking. And my friend is extreamly vigil about pee.
In agility they are a real hoot! I remember one in florida here named JJ who screamed bloody murder while running agility! But was silent on the pause table, only to go screaming through the course at break neck speed. He was the most fun to watch. They are a great sports dog. Beckie is having her breeding partner train her male in Schn. He's quite the little spark.
I do know they are not smart enough to not challeng big dogs. As a club member lost one to a male shepherd. The GSD broke his neck i think. The GSD was boarding and her husband let them out together and the phone rang. By the time he walked back to check the little dog was dead. Was never even a yelp.
I hope you find the right one for you. Like i said i think they are nifty.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

As sad as I was about Grim, I honestly KNEW when the time had come. I was so attached to him I knew when the light went out in his eyes and he was defeated..........They brought out a quilt, my husband was crying, and the last thing Grim did was lick him all over his face. .......

We are definitely waiting until mom goes and we have a chance to get out and travel a little. Hospice is meant for folks who they think will pass away within 6 months but we really don't know when that will be and are enjoying as much time with her as we can and spoiling her rotten.

We had a Welsh about 35 years ago. My first dog as an adult and was probably not the best choice at that point in my life. He was a nice dog, very personable, but was a kennel dog before I got him and was quite content to soil his crate. .... I had no clue how to train him. 

When we had kids we found him another home because the soiling was too much for me as a young mother; I swear that dog was a strategic pooper..always knew exactly where to place it. 

Nowadays....I think I would have been able to fix it and train him --definitely an attractive dog, nice personality, but the ones I have met recently have been a little snarkier than I remember and still not overly trainable...all just bred with shows in mind...But I am really keeping my eyes open and want to check out the options. ... certainly have a few more decades with dogs and more knowledge of motivational training than back then.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

T said;
"I also like what I call the baby airedale--Welsh or Lakeland Terrier. Which one is the tiniest"

The Lakeland is smaller, finer and a lot more fire. The Welsh is sometimes described as "cobby in build" but both are similar in height. The Welsh is also much more common in our area. Fact is I saw very few lakelands even in the 10-15 yrs I showed in the breed ring. 
Both can be the Dale black and tan color. The Welsh always is but the Lackland is more often Wheaten colored.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

As for the Border terrier in Obedience, my males sire was a total clown. I saw him once on the article search/retrieve when he went out, sniffed all the articles then picked up the correct item. He then looked at mom, put it back down and rolled it with his nose across the floor to her. 
He was also the second ever CH, UD, TD in the breeds history. He also had a gazilllion rally titles and earth dog titles. Fantastic little guy!


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## travis raghib (Sep 7, 2012)

We have a male border terrier. He's 1.5 years old 15 lbs in tact and on the smaller side. Here's some bullet points about our boy:

1. We bought ours from a show breeder - He looks freaking amazing because obviously he was breed for conformation. Sadly his coat suffered - the fur on his chest and neck is not as heavily wired as the rest of his coat. Which means his coat needs to be cleaned more often. 
2. Ours has chase drive for days no matter what time of day or night or how tired he is he will leep into action if something moves in the distance. 
3. I did a lot of tug work with our boy - he really likes to fight. I can throw away the tug and he'll continue after me to bite my shirt or pant leg.
4. When I do ob with him he is lightning fast and flashy. His sits and downs look like a Mal, dropping to the floor on a dime. 
5. Ours is tough as nails. He wrestles my doberman puppy and wins regularly. 
6. He was also what I call "dog crazy" when we first got him at 3 months. He loved to play with other dogs. I think this is a consequence of our breeder being a little lazy and letting their pupps tire each other out. 
7. Our is extremely attached to my girlfriend - he has a touch of separation anxiety and a lot crate anxiety. He is also a cuddle bug and an extreme face licker. 
8. My girlfriend takes him everywhere and he does really well everywhere he goes. He's extremely social with kids, dogs, and just about everyone. He becomes really gentle around babies, children, and puppies. 
9. He's kind of an ass. He will do things to illicit a reaction from us just because he can. If he wants to play he'll come and sit directly infront of you and stare at you, when you go to pet him he'll nip at your hand bark then run away. He will repeat this until you play tug with him. He climbs up onto counters and furniture he opens cabinets and doors. He can easily jump a 6 foot wall. 

All-in-all the best companion dog I've ever had.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Travis, 15 lb is a nice size for a Border. If I have one complaint about show terriers is the "bigger is better" often rules. It's a lot easier to breed a somewhat larger dog with correct structure the it is to breed a small dog with correct structure. 
The Border terrier is actually the smallest of the terriers, or should be, weight wise. Most today seem to be in the 15-20 lb range.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

We agreed, the first move will be to get a cat. Beau (GSD) needs to learn to live with one and better to get one settled in before a terrier.

Beau should be fine. As is, if he is on the deck chilling out, the chipmunks can run right in front of him. We will just get a kitten or a dog savvy cat and take our time like we would with a new dog.

My husband's biggest concern is Beau is expected to have "house manners" and he is concerned that everything will fall apart with a small active terrier in the house when they are both inside together. LOL I think he wants a small sturdy dog with the temperament of a basset hound. Bo-ring. But he gets input. I want to have fun.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

You go girl! Who would want a boring dog?!! :lol:
Good call on the cat first but remember one thing. I know many terrier owners with cats also. Don't ever take that to mean you have a cat friendly dog. What the dog grows up with PROBABLY wont transfer over to any cat outside the family.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Bob - I sure know that one! That is true with the GSDs as well though I could slowly bring in another just like bringing in another dog.

My little Welsh terrier and our cat were inseparable


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: the cat conditioning thing ....
of course what applies to cats that are a member of the dog's family will not automatically transfer to cats outside the home, and that goes for ferals as well as any local neighbor cats. but a dog can certainly be conditioned to stay neutral and handle "outside" cats too. i've done it for more than one dog. just takes an entirely different approach and could probably fill an entire thread on its own. and easier than stopping crittering in general after the dog has been conditioned to cats inside the family first. in my experience dogs have enuff grey matter to be able to recognize cats from other "prey items"


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

My little female GSD was "hardwired" for the kill and she was raised with cats. I could control her behavior and even teach her some self control (using low stim ecollar) but I never truly trusted her. Not even with the family cats. and even though I did trust the Welsh.

Grim (my first cadaver dog) - well - a friend set up a cadaver problem for me in a chicken house and put the hide right under a chicken on its eggs. It was a total unknown to me. It was as though all those chickens did not exist to him and the hen was pretty upset when he stuck his nose under her and sat. He even scooped up a baby bird on the ground once and handed it to me.

I am going on the assumption right now that if we get a little border, it may not be trustworthy around other small animals though I may have to borrow some chickens while it is a puppy just to get it used to them since I would want some one day.

Friend of mine intends to do an experiment with some feists and start exposing it to narcotics before weaining [while with the mother] and have it be around tame squirrels from day one. She wants to see if she can make a tine narc dog [she actually is a k9 handler on a police force]. It will be interesting to see what she gets.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> You go girl! Who would want a boring dog?!! :lol:
> Good call on the cat first but remember one thing. I know many terrier owners with cats also. Don't ever take that to mean you have a cat friendly dog. What the dog grows up with PROBABLY wont transfer over to any cat outside the family.


Yup, found that out with the Dutchie. My cat is fine inside or in the yard, any other cat is a potential snack. I found that out the hard way.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

After asking for recommendations from this board I got a border terrier for a small house dog because of a lot of the recommendations. I think she is about 5 months old now. Overall I think it was a real good choice. I never really realized how thick the skin was till I had one. Although I keep an eye on things I think if it was a different breed we would have been getting it stitched up after some playing with the Mali pups. She became pretty tight with the house cat but the play can get a bit rough there too. 
As far as house manners she has been pretty good not really ate anything and is house broken pretty good. 
These are a few pics from today


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Is there any way to see the thumbnails bigger, Chris?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Any better?


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

NO FAIR!
No cute puppy pictures!

Yeah, I was playing with my daughter's chi tonight and going, yeah, I want a fun small dog. Her chihuaua is a neat little thing. Too delicate structure wise for my liking but a really neat little dog - full of drive and good temperament - she rescued it from a bad situation. Tough little bugger.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Any better?


YEAH! 

Thanks.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Any better?



Ohhhhhh, puppy breath! :grin:

She looks good, Chris, trim and slim.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Her chihuaua is a neat little thing. Too delicate structure wise for my liking but a really neat little dog ....


My sister has good little non-yappy non-shivery Chihuahuas too, from Save a Sato, but I'm with you in my preference for a sturdy little dog like a Border Terrier.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ha, Pups are cool, the Mali in the pic is about 7 months and the terrier about 5ish. My last small dog was a miniature greyhound it would have had a tough time living with malis and DS.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris, when you talk about the Borders tough hide, that's a requirement of the breed. When I was showing in the AKC breed ring I was also showing in working terrier shows where the judges were terriermen for the hunts in GB. They ALWAYS picked up the dogs to look them over and the Borders were ALWAYS picked up by two handsful of hide on the back. The folded the dogs, bent them nose to tail,spanned their bodies with both hands, pinched their elbows together, held them in the middle with one hand to see how balanced they were front to back and all sorts of things to see if it was physically qualified to work in the ground. Waay different the the quick once over the AKC judges did. You also better not be shy about hearnning your dog's faults because the "real" judges would critique out loud for the whole world to hear. 
One of my hunting partners was a vet and that's who I got my rabies shots from. She used to cuss and shake her head when she tried to get a needle in either of my Borders. Same thing when she chipped them.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> You have already received help from the expert, so I'll just add that the often-used description of this breed is apt indeed: "a workmanlike little fellow in a plain brown suit."
> 
> I love this breed best among all the small dogs.




I always referred to mine as classy looking ally dogs. :grin:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Bob, im sure you were one of the guys who mentioned the border when I asked for what kind of small terrier I should get the house. The kids wanted a small dog and I was ok with it as long as it was a terrier. I never had one before or really spent time with one. Ya, there cool. The skin in the front, around the neck and especially on the back of the neck and above the shoulders is some real thick stuff. I was wondering if it would be even thicker on a male? We were all amazed at the flexibility of the dog as far as its rear end and legs. They can be bent into pretzels even for her to just get comfortable when sleeping. I assumed it was to go to ground and help not get stuck. Everything about them makes them a very purposefully built little package. I never knew this about them. Then there attitude, you really do have to experience one. And mine is no hardened dog. 
She and one mali I have like to mess around, the mali ran up grabbed her by the skin on her back tossed her about 3 feet in the air spinning. The best way I can put it was she was not concerned about the landing, did not look worried about spinning in the air. No matter how she was spinning she tried her hardest to keep her eyes on the 40 pound mali. From the time she was picked up and tossed to the time she landed all that was on her mind was payback. 
My wife calls her-her petunia (her name is Nelly) this dog is so no petunia. When a female dog has a bearded such as this with fur from critters in it “little petunia” just don’t feel right. 
If you can get one of these about 50or 60 pounds and direct that fight to man you would have one heck of a police dog.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

chris// is that your setup?

if so, if you ever get a chance, snap some pics and share them of the various obstacles/stations, looks good...


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

It’s the beginning; I still have about a million things to do with the house prior to getting my dog areas up and running as I want. Im only about a year behind schedule. I thought I would be all done with everything by this spring…… fail


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> My sister has good little non-yappy non-shivery Chihuahuas too, from Save a Sato, but I'm with you in my preference for a sturdy little dog like a Border Terrier.


We thought we were going to loose her about 2 years ago. Something dropped on her head and fractured her skull. I don't recall what it was but it was not all that heavy. She was on steroids and at the ER vet for almost a week and bounced back good as normal........but she scares me with how fine those bones are.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Nancy regarding your PM I don’t mind making the place I got the bitch from public, my wife spent some time looking around and found this guy http://wartraceborders.com/index.html we did what you are not supposed to and did not visit and just had him send a pup. But overall I think everything went well. I think she cost around $1,200.00. I think you can get papers if you wanted to but papers just reduce value in my book. Especially the more I learn. 
 The breeder has a friend who is a truck driver and the driver met my wife at a truck stop with the pup in a walmart bag. Pup delivered! 
It was not easy at all to find a breeder for these little guys 
My wife’s name is Kristi …. Yes Chris and Kristi… very cute I know. You can tell him we are happy with the dog. I think we are supposed to get it fixed but I am going to try not to unless it causes trouble at home for some reason. We did not sign anything and I don’t think the guy cares all to much. 

I have not introduced odor to the dog yet but plan on getting it to hit on a few drug scents for the fun of it. I have 10 and 13 year old girls and want the word out that all cars and people will be searched upon entering my property when they get a bit older. 
And if there is any positive indications you then must take it up with the team of malis and DS. I thought it would be fun to have the dog indicate by jumping up on the person with the odor… kinda like getting that person to say “hey this dog really likes me, it won’t leave me alone” 

Just started working on making the dog a ninja as far as rear leg placement, ladders and stuff like that. She seems to have good environmental nerves and has been pretty good to go on everything thrown at her so far except the rubble pile. 
She did not willingly climb up it and when carried and placed on it she did not freeze but only went a few feet in each direction. I have only worked her a few times (I hate winter) but she is coming along and I expect it to be a total non issue. 
 I have not watched her around live fire yet but need to soon just to see how she does. I don’t know is anyone has any experience with these dogs and guns? At first I thought that since they are hunting dogs they might have some breeding in them to not be gun shy but I don’t think these dogs are used like that for hunting? 
 Some of you guys know my background as far as training. And the little (very little) I did with her so far has been no treats, toys or rewards. I think she would actually do well with the training philosophy I know the best (not saying I know it extremely well) but know it better than any other one. But with that being said I did get a few clickers. I might actually give it a try. The main reason being to introduce clickers to my 10 year old as a different method (and me). She is the most interested in the dogs out of my two kids.
I have to admit I am kind of torn reguarding using the clicker as there is something to be said to being asked how you got your dog to do certain things or what you use for a reward and being able to tell them nothing, no food or toy rewards. But I will likely swallow what little pride I have and lower myself to bribery with a treat…. Maybe not I don’t know… either way should be funny


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Interesting - was looking into Patterdales a few years ago (checking out) and his name looked very familiar and I see he does Patterdales as well.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris, your description of how you got him scares me a bit. Here in MO, the puppy mill capitol of the USA, it's common knowledge to check out the breeder's place and "I can get the dog delivered to you" is a huge red flag. It does sound like she's a keep though. 
Do you have a copy of her pedigree? I'd love to see what's in her background.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I just got a good look at the breeder's page. I like what I see. Obviously things can be hidden or faked on a web site but I did like it.
One of those things being Henry Johnson owning one of his pups. I met Henry in the early 90s at a working terrier show. That man is almost godlike in the working Airedale world. He likes a real dog. I doubt he would get just any pup. He LOVED my male Rags. :grin: :grin: ;grin: 
As to your wanting to do detection work for fun. if your pup has already gotten into crittering I can only say god luck if he crosses critter scent on a "search". I taught my first border AKC tracking. He was fantastic but I had already hunted with him for some time before I started that. Never did get him titled. He couldn't pass up a critter trail while on a man track to save his life. :lol:


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Actually it is kind of interesting to me too because if you can imprint on an odor early and desensitize to critters....and have them NOT learn to critter it would be worth it.

Do you think it *is *doable? I did that with Beau by spending a good bit of time among chickens and goats as a small puppy and by going for woods walks and checking any interest by distracting and rewarding and directing that drive to a toy. So we can walk right past cats, and birds and things and he is not particularly interested in them or in chasing them. But he is a GSD, not a terrier. And it took a lot of work to get there.

Now I am working on assumption - fun pet dog - only offlead in controlled environments. Can do detection stuff for fun but not for real.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ya, Bob I hear you regarding my methods of finding a breeder. I think its ideal for you to see the place in any state you’re in. Although I did not do as much checking it out as I wanted to it was just another one of those time vs money life gambles. We did do a little bit. My wife did speak to a few people that got pups from him in the past and were to his place. I spoke to him once for a bit and he sounded Ok. Of course this can just mean he is good at ripping off people and I guess the past “customers” could all be fake as well. So other than going there yourself and seeing the place-it was all a gamble. What I liked was this guy could really care less if I bought the dog or not. There was no pressure to say the least. 
All my wife had was a few minutes at a truck stop with a pup in a walmart bag to determine if it was a keeper… with two kids with her. Between my wife and two kids im lucky as hell they did not bring home a pup in need of $5,000 worth of work just to rescue it. My wife did a few years as a vet tec so she is qualified to know if the dog is warm and alive or cold and dead. She was to not bring it home if it was cold. (They met at the entrance to the restaurant of a very busy rest stop area, my wife and kids did not go walking around the trucks) and I was still concerned about the deal. 
We were actually going to drive down there to get the dog but that whole life thing got in the way not allowing for the time. I forgot how long the drive was going to be but it was a long ass drive to get a pup and turn around. So then we were thinking of flying but that was going to be 4 tickets and it was still a long drive from the airport etc. etc. etc. bla. The breeder guy was really pusing for us to come down the his place. 
The dog really didn’t get into critters just yet. I can see it is in her but it has not had the opportunity to come out yet. I don’t think its feasible to think its not going to come out. Unless I treated her like a working dog and tied her out or something. For the most part she is going to have the run of a big yard with lots of critters. But right now I am more concerned with her being on the wrong side of the critter game with the coyotes we have 
But anyway it did seem to workout, cool pup. 
Ill see if my wife has the papers, I have no idea about that stuff but if I got them ill post them. 
Nancy, I also mentioned Patterdales to the family but the googled it and read a few things. They have them written up like they are death machines. I mean I know what they can do but man does it have to be all over the place?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Actually it is kind of interesting to me too because if you can imprint on an odor early and desensitize to critters....and have them NOT learn to critter it would be worth it.
> 
> Do you think it *is *doable? I did that with Beau by spending a good bit of time among chickens and goats as a small puppy and by going for woods walks and checking any interest by distracting and rewarding and directing that drive to a toy. So we can walk right past cats, and birds and things and he is not particularly interested in them or in chasing them. But he is a GSD, not a terrier. And it took a lot of work to get there.
> 
> Now I am working on assumption - fun pet dog - only offlead in controlled environments. Can do detection stuff for fun but not for real.



Nancy, there are JRTs being used in detection work in Guam. Of course they are looking for Brown tree snakes but I don't doubt any good terrier could work with the right direction as a pup. If it runs loose on a farm, etc the chances of it running across a critter is pretty good so constant proofing would probably be needed. The attitude that even the show folks want to see in a terrier has a lot to do with why many pets are still critter crazy as a bell tower bat at noon. 
I could always call even my craziest hunt terriers off running game but if I wasn't there............:-o
Consistency! :wink:


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

It sounds like a fun experiment! One that won't cost a lot of time since that is what I already train and find to be fun. 

I would probably treat it that way and have to convince myself of reliability under critter distractions, and not be upset if it did not pan out. 

IOW failure = "dog becomes house pet", unlike a larger dog where failure = "lets find you a new home"


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> It sounds like a fun experiment! One that won't cost a lot of time since that is what I already train and find to be fun.
> 
> I would probably treat it that way and have to convince myself of reliability under critter distractions, and not be upset if it did not pan out.
> 
> IOW failure = "dog becomes house pet", unlike a larger dog where failure = "lets find you a new home"



That would be a great plan B with a Border terrier!


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