# Dog club pet peaves



## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

What are your pet peaves about Dog clubs? What things will motivate you to quite or not join?

I'm part of a group tring to organize a new club. I'm putting a list ofthings NOT to do together.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Egos and clicks. You wont get the time of day from some clubs if you aren't at the top of the game. 
One of our club t-shirts has a Chi dog with a wooden leg. That means that IF your willing to put in the time and effort, we'll train a three legged Chi dog.


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

Bob - That might be the single hardest problems to deal with


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I dont have the patience to sit around for 10 hours waiting to work my dog for 5 minutes twice a week. I prefer going private if it means I get more work in for my time. I can do OB myself and its pretty boring to me to watch other people do for hours on end, I just need someone else for the bitework.

That said, if I like the people I will go to clubs occasionally just to be social, and its a little different with a smaller more casual club. But if its a bigger club where I dont really know/want to know the people that well, or everyone has multiple dogs... forget about it.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Egos and drama. The club I was in has two helpers. The main helper who is a respected trial and training helper and the other guy that doesn't understand basic dog drives and couldn't tell you to save his life which drive the dog is operating from.

One of the issues is the experienced helper thinks the inexperienced helper should be the one working the young and inexperienced dogs.

Then there are the clubs members that come out but both helpers refuse to work the dog so they tell the member to stake out the dog and tell the handler how to work his own dog.


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

Mike - That was why I left my last club. My day starts at 5 am. The club helper would roll on to the field around 11:30 to 12:30 and we would not start work dogs for an hour. I really didn't want to wait untill mid day and work a Black dog with a short muzzle(Rottweiler) in the full heat of the day, after we had be up & training (Tracking/OB)for 6 hrs.

We only had one helper and we allowed guests to visit and work. I was told the club would bennifit from the guest training moneys. So like yourself, long day for a 5 min exercise. Too bd because other than that it was a great group of people and close to home.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I've only experienced 2 clubs. One was a Sch club that seemed snooty to me. No one was real friendly except for the helper. He evaluated my dog who was a pup at the time, said he could do it, and I stayed and watched the other people work their dogs. They had about 8 dogs and were not taking new members which seemed strange to me. 

The club I'm with now is the opposite. There are no egos or back stabbing. Everyone has a good time together. We all praise and critique each other's dogs and handling skills. Everyone knows that all the dogs and all the handlers are at different levels and we all help each other. It's a fun day that I look forward to, to the point that it's my priority over all else on training day. 

Even with Howard there.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I actually _enjoy_ helping the other club members (and having them help me) with the obedience routine and tracking. There are only _so_ many things you can train for by yourself - how do you practice the group except with a group, for example. How do you get your dog used to having people around while tracking, or doing the obedience routine, by your lonesome? 

Of course this feeling _could_ come from having been with a 'club' (ie: training group) that never did anything but bitework when it met, but I think it's _good_ when the club is willing to help and encourage it's members during all three phases of the sport.





Peeves:

1. No set training days/times. This really was one of the main reasons I left where I _was_ training. We never knew when training was going to be held, usually until a day or two before, when the TD would e-mail everyone to say what time to be there. 

2. A TD that is more interested in working/showing off his _own_ dogs than helping the club members learn and train _their _dogs. I cannot even _begin_ to tell you how many times I asked questions at my former club that were ignored, answered in a 'I've done this for 1,000 years and know what I'm doing' manner, or told to go ask one of the other club members and they would help me!

3. TOO MUCH socialization among members while someone else is working their dog. There comes a point where you really ought to shut up and pay attention to what's going on on the field. If that person is having problems, you could learn something by listening and watching what the TD does or tells them to do. Not too long ago, at my _current_ club, one of the club members was out on the field working their dog, and having some issues with the dog not outing and taking cheap shots during the side transport. There was another club member sitting next to me on the sidelines, just jabbering away to another member (and quite loudly) about some movie with Clint Eastwood in Africa or something, and it just kind of got on my nerves because I was trying to pay attention to what was happening on the field. 





Not to be nitpicky or anything. :lol:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I agree with Dan. The training group that we are in is *positive, fun,* and *supportive*. I makes you want to wish away a full week just to train on Sunday. Happy, happy...:razz: Not bragging too much but it's all good, even Dan!


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## Betty Mathena (Apr 19, 2006)

Gossip and backstabbing. 

A lot time ago I observed a few times at a club as a guest. Somebody would bring out a dog, work it, and told how good it looked. As soon as they went to put the dog up the critique began. It was always nasty and happened time after time, member after member.

Never did join that club, I'm just too thin skinned.

Too much socialization that holds up the flow of training.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob, your club sounds awesome.


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## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

Actually, the two clubs I quit going to it was only because the parking situation was awkward - I drive a cargo van, and I basically needed a 4-wheeler in the size of a compact car in order to park at the training field. I got tired of getting stuck, I got tired of parking a half mile away just to avoid getting stuck.

And one I stopped going to because it was on the border of a really bad neighborhood, and somehow having a protection dog - _crated_ - in the car just wasn't sufficiently reassuring.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

POLITICS!!!! Egos and gossip. 

In the SAR world there is so much (as I know there is in every dog training venue) of it that I get frustrated. Yes, I allowed myself to get caught up in it at one time, but learned a valuable lesson in thinking I could change it.  

SAR-our job is to help save human life, there is NO ROOM for egos and definitely no room for people who are "GLORY BOUND". If they want that they need to do something else.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> POLITICS!!!! Egos and gossip.
> 
> In the SAR world there is so much (as I know there is in every dog training venue) of it that I get frustrated. Yes, I allowed myself to get caught up in it at one time, but learned a valuable lesson in thinking I could change it.
> 
> SAR-our job is to help save human life, there is NO ROOM for egos and definitely no room for people who are "GLORY BOUND". If they want that they need to do something else.


I second that!

On my state USAR team, I have the good fortune of being the training director and the wife of the search team manager. That means I get to select who is able to join our team and who isn't (which is based on a pre-screening where I evaluate the dog and the handler to decide if they will be an asset to the team or not). I weed out the bad eggs right from the start. Most of the time these folks are obvious. And, I also have the authority to recommend who gets deployed when we get a call-out. If a team member can't behave and play nice during training, I sure as hell won't be taking him/her on a deployment. You'd better believe that's incentive enough for them to be on their best behavior!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I enjoy training with our club though it gets dragged out some times. Our previous training director has come back and sounds like maybe some other previous members may be coming back also so thats great. We are able to train at a national or even a international level providing life allows it. So the sky is the limit with us if you want or can go there.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Carol Boche said:


> POLITICS!!!! Egos and gossip.
> 
> In the SAR world there is so much (as I know there is in every dog training venue) of it that I get frustrated. Yes, I allowed myself to get caught up in it at one time, but learned a valuable lesson in thinking I could change it.
> 
> SAR-our job is to help save human life, there is NO ROOM for egos and definitely no room for people who are "GLORY BOUND". If they want that they need to do something else.


I third that!! Though we are not about saving lives those egos, gossip and politics abound in the sport of schutzhund too. I have seen training directors fire club members if they trained at a different field or attend a seminar they didn't host or approve. So you can also add narrow minded training directors to my list along with abusive training methods, members who never help with set up or removing equipment or field maintenance. Many clubs forget there is more to enjoy about training, the sport and being a club member than the number of titles earned and where they rank on the political ladder. 

Our club shares different training philosophies, genuinely enjoys each other's company and watching progress of the members and dogs. We also have a brief meeting after each session to discuss problems, progression and game plan for the following week.

We feel that strengthening the partnership and bond between the dog and handler should be considered the ultimate achievement, titles are just icing on the cake.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Drama! 











I feel a mini-rant coming on...this is in no way a dog sport club only thing, but just as an example...in my vet school class of about 70, there are only about 15 guys or so. Way too many wannabe type A alpha females, some of which have no idea WTF they are talking about. I typically get along better with men, so I am to the point where I have zero interest in joining an activity if I have to put up with yet another alpha female who doesn't likely simply because she thinks she is threatened by my presence. :evil::evil::evil: I am actually pretty easy to get along with, but some women for some reason just don't like another younger assertive female around? I dunno. Anyways, I hate going out of my way to be friendly and easy going, just to get treated even worse, even if it's for an activity I enjoy. Can ya'll tell this happens a fairly frequently?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> Bob, your club sounds awesome.


Thanks Al, it is!
For instance. The field has been flooded more times then not this past month or better. Tonight we just all sat at a pavillion and went over our methods and philosophys with the nubees. As Mike and others mentioned, we do spend a lot of time waiting to get on with our individual dogs but that's a part of this club. A lot of time is spent every training session with the TD explaining what and why he's doing things. If someone doesn't get it they know there are 4-5 people that will help them through whatever. Everyone pays attention and AFTER training is spent over eats and discussion of who needs what and how to get there. 
A good appetite is a requirement! :grin:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Way too many wannabe type A alpha females, some of which have no idea WTF they are talking about.

This is how I feel when you post a lot of times.:-$ :-$ :-$ LOL. YOU GOTTA LOVE THAT ! ! ! ! !


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Way too many wannabe type A alpha *females*, some of which have no idea WTF they are talking about.
> 
> This is how I feel when you post a lot of times.:-$ :-$ :-$ LOL. YOU GOTTA LOVE THAT ! ! ! ! !


Hmmm, that's funny, Jeff, cause I feel the same thing about you when you post on the health section...maybe even the comment about females! :razz::razz::razz: Tell ya what, I'll leave you to the training stuff, you leave me the medical stuff. And never shall the two meet. Well, maybe every once in a while...


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Oh oh oh... be nice kids. Don't make me come back there!


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks everyone. My motive for this thread is to share it with a group of friends that I hope to start a Club with in our area. We all tend to get a little tunnel vission at times, human nature I think. This thread is kind of a focus group of people with the same interests and goals. Everones imput is appreciated. 

Has anyone been in a club were the TD was NOT the head/lead helper?

From a business effectiveness strandpoint many times the people with the ability to teach/instruct/evaluate are NOT nessisarly the best planners/organizers/admins. I wonder how much of the problems could be fixed by rethinking who the TD is in a club organization.

Again, thank you for the imput!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

In the bigger picture of *club pet peaves*, if there is a problem and all members are of the SAME club, can't educated conversation fix most issues? Not bragging, but with our group training sessions are done by the TDs and it is done to the K9 handler's wishes...all things being equal.

If clubs or organizations have some folks who are real jerks and it is a voting body, vote the low lifes out!  This is the biggest reason we are not a Schutzhund club or have connections with other programs. I have seen first hand the "bullscape" connected with national associations. Lots are great and a handful are pond scum. Our group members talk at the end of each training session, support each other, cut up and have fun, and egos or attitudes NEVER take place...like a family run business that is functional!

I could NEVER think of being involved with a back stabbing and poor training group ever again. Weekend training should be fun, it should be a time when folks with common goals and interests come together to support each other. The 9-5 grind is behind you!  Life is far too short to be involved with big egos and bigger headaches!!!!!!!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Frank Smego said:


> Has anyone been in a club were the TD was NOT the head/lead helper?


Yes, the first schH club I was in had a training director that had never titled a dog and didn't know how to be a helper. He knew how to OB train a dog but came from the old school of yank and crank. He's since updated his methods with an ecollar.

Thankfully, there was another member who'd titled a few dogs and was into the balabanov method, the club ended up being ok for the most part and I was able to learn from whomever I wanted. I learned a lot from that club.

There were a few of us that broke off from that club and formed a new one, but in this case the lead helper wasn't the TD either. In fact we didn't have a TD, we just asked each other for help.

I just started up another training club using the lessons and failure of the previous two clubs. We have a four acre training field and this morning's session our first was a great success. It's nice to have a place with built in kennels and equipment that doesn't have to be moved after every session.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

chris--why not post a poll in the "weekly poll" section? then you could get some hard data (unless you just want to do it all by hand fr responses to this thread  )

just a thought...

for the record, the one club i considered becoming a member of was one of the "pooh-pooh, you're a newbie" clubs, but interestingly only got that fr the TD, not the members themselves. then it kinda evolved into a breed-specific, avenue for members to sell pups (and not my breed of choice to boot).


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