# Is a Gottfried Dildei seminar a must???



## Robin Cooke (Aug 25, 2009)

Have the opportunity to go to the Memphis Seminar in September 17,18 & 19. Will be a challenge because it is a super busy month for both my hubby and me but would like to start the Dobes off on the right foot. What do you GSD folks think?


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Robin Cooke said:


> Have the opportunity to go to the Memphis Seminar in September 17,18 & 19. Will be a challenge because it is a super busy month for both my hubby and me but would like to start the Dobes off on the right foot. What do you GSD folks think?


Not a clue but ask a Dobie person LOL not a GSD person....just kidding....


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Robin Cooke said:


> Have the opportunity to go to the Memphis Seminar in September 17,18 & 19. Will be a challenge because it is a super busy month for both my hubby and me but would like to start the Dobes off on the right foot. What do you GSD folks think?


Robin,

As a Dobie person, I think there are other seminar givers, whose
training style would be more appropriate for your Dobermann.
Especially for building a proper foundation. Michael Ellis would be my first choice. If you can't attend a seminar then at least buy any and all of his DVD's


----------



## Robin Cooke (Aug 25, 2009)

Ignorance demands that I ask what"training style would be more appropriate for your Dobermann" you don't have to get technical but if you could allude to what you mean I would appreciate it.Just a newbie so if you could clarify that would help me make a more informed decision. Thanks for your input & you can e-mail me if you would prefer.Thanks


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Robin Cooke said:


> Ignorance demands that I ask what"training style would be more appropriate for your Dobermann" you don't have to get technical but if you could allude to what you mean I would appreciate it.Just a newbie so if you could clarify that would help me make a more informed decision. Thanks for your input & you can e-mail me if you would prefer.Thanks


Hi Robin 

Marker training or clicker training. Operant Conditioning, reward based. Using mostly prey based protection training with the development of active aggression. Don't let them be worked in
defense. Check out the Michael Ellis series of DVD's available from Leerburg. The Ivan Balabanov DVD's are another good resource and of course, seminars by either Michael or Ivan
would be worth attending.

Gottfried was good in his day, but his methods are pretty dated now.


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Robin,
> 
> As a Dobie person, I think there are other seminar givers, whose
> training style would be more appropriate for your Dobermann.
> Especially for building a proper foundation. Michael Ellis would be my first choice. If you can't attend a seminar then at least buy any and all of his DVD's


Not really Dobermann specific or anything, but Michael Ellis is a really cool guy, obviously his accomplishments speak for themselves, he seems to know how to read dogs quite well (understatement), and is great with the dogs AND the handlers. I believe he's also dealt with a lot of breeds. So just to more-or-less agree with Thomas and give a virtual forum high-five (or whatever), but yeah, Michael Ellis would be a great one if he happens to be doing seminars or you feel like a nice vacation to California.

I really enjoyed the couple of times I got to watch Michael work (once in training and once at a trial). He knows his stuff, he is good at communicating, he is a really nice approachable guy, and he doesn't make you feel like an idiot when you ask him questions. In short, he just seems like a really cool guy that I know I could learn a proverbial ton from.

I haven't gotten to see or meet Ivan B., but his reputation is obviously well-known as well.

-Cheers


----------



## Sandra Tam (Jun 6, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hi Robin
> 
> Marker training or clicker training. Operant Conditioning, reward based. Using mostly prey based protection training with the development of active aggression. Don't let them be worked in
> defense. Check out the Michael Ellis series of DVD's available from Leerburg. The Ivan Balabanov DVD's are another good resource and of course, seminars by either Michael or Ivan
> ...


----------



## Sandra Tam (Jun 6, 2009)

Are you kidding? Every positive related training technique stems from Gottfried.
He is the original. I wouldn't miss one of his seminars
Sandy


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Robin Cooke said:


> Ignorance demands that I ask what"training style would be more appropriate for your Dobermann" you don't have to get technical but if you could allude to what you mean I would appreciate it.Just a newbie so if you could clarify that would help me make a more informed decision. Thanks for your input & you can e-mail me if you would prefer.Thanks


If your considering Schutzhund Michael's a good dog trainer and I ring guy and you can learn allot about dog training from him but Im not real keen on his Schutzhund.
Dean Calderon and Randy Rhoads have handled and trained a few Dobermans of old to high levels in Schutzhund and both are worth seeing and training with. I haven't heard the name Gottfried Dildei in many years.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Sandra Tam said:


> Are you kidding? Every positive related training technique stems from Gottfried.
> He is the original. I wouldn't miss one of his seminars
> Sandy


Sandra,

No I'm not kidding. Gottfried gets credit for introducing (along with Sheila Booth) positive training methods to the Schutzhund world, but I think you over state his contribution that "every positive related training technique stems from Gottfried". I stand by my original post that Michael Ellis would be a more appropriate trainer/seminar giver for the OP's Dobermann


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I find it sad that only big names are tossed around for learning how to work with a dog. USA is such a large country and from what I hear doesn't have the club possibilities that we have in Europe but, I've heard of people travelling X-miles to attend a seminar from which they undoubtedly can learn a lot but what is more useful, is the weekly club advice. How many attend a seminar and a week or two later are stumped although they "knew what they had to do".

I watched a video of Michael Ellis (sent from Leerburg by email) just a short sequence of focusing on the handler and I had to admit - what he said had hand and foot but I learned this from our club years ago. There must be numerous club handlers that can teach someone the same but on a weekly-to-weekly basis??? When problems occur, Michael is not around (God save his soul) but the club members are.

Just a thought??


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> If your considering Schutzhund Michael's a good dog trainer and I ring guy and you can learn allot about dog training from him but Im not real keen on his Schutzhund.
> Dean Calderon and Randy Rhoads have handled and trained a few Dobermans of old to high levels in Schutzhund and both are worth seeing and training with. I haven't heard the name Gottfried Dildei in many years.


I'm not sure why didn't mention or recommend Greg Doud fore some reasion I was thinking dobi specific I've been training with him the last couple of years and is by far the best teacher,trainer and coach and all around nice guy I've had the pleasure work with.
He's one of the best in this country that few have ever worked with him the reason being the groups he trains with keep his schedule full for the most part.
So keep your ears open he travels the east side of the country and would be well worth you effort to check him out.


----------



## Christopher Fox (Dec 24, 2009)

> USA is such a large country and from what I hear doesn't have the club possibilities that we have in Europe but ...


I think you hear right. I think it has to do with the kind of dogs people needed in America up to this point. Certainly, west of the Mississippi, farm and ranch dogs were in order. There is no long timeline of dogs being used as property guards, sentries, etc, in the US as there is in Europe. People one hundred years ago didn't use dogs for protection - they used lead and gun powder. You have an intruder, you don't get scruffy the farm dog, you go get your gun.

Our Loius Doberman would not have created a dog to protect himself, he would have hired a couple of 20 yo cowboys with guns strapped to their sides for protection.

That probably has something to do with it with the lack of clubs.



> I've heard of people travelling X-miles to attend a seminar from which they undoubtedly can learn a lot but what is more useful, is the weekly club advice.


You seem to consistently offer some sound advice.


----------



## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

If you have the opportunity to see such a Schutzhund great as Dildei, you should take it. There is always something to learn from a man that has been in the Schutzhund game such a long time.

Yes, there are many new training sensations out there. Micheal Ellis is the new Leerburg sensation. Ed Fawley always latches on to the next best and greatest thing...s.e.x sells. 

What you will find that in dog training and in Schutzhund there's always more than one way to skin a cat. What you have to do is determine what works best for your individual dog (not breed but the dog). What motivates him and where his thresholds ly. 

I think you should definitely attend the seminar and take was is good and file it away for later use and what you don't like you discard. As you learn and grow and understand how to read your dog then you will learn to create your own training style.

If you are doing Schutzhund, you will learn that at most clubs there an easy way and difficult way to get results. Most of all there is a reason why things are trained a certain way..because it works. 

Have fun at the seminar you can't loose going to watch a Schutzhund great.


----------



## Robin Cooke (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks Mr. Jones and everyone else. I appreciate the input. I think we will choose to put another feather in our caps


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I find it sad that only big names are tossed around for learning how to work with a dog. USA is such a large country and from what I hear doesn't have the club possibilities that we have in Europe but, I've heard of people travelling X-miles to attend a seminar from which they undoubtedly can learn a lot but what is more useful, is the weekly club advice. How many attend a seminar and a week or two later are stumped although they "knew what they had to do".
> 
> I watched a video of Michael Ellis (sent from Leerburg by email) just a short sequence of focusing on the handler and I had to admit - what he said had hand and foot but I learned this from our club years ago. There must be numerous club handlers that can teach someone the same but on a weekly-to-weekly basis??? When problems occur, Michael is not around (God save his soul) but the club members are.
> 
> Just a thought??


 
AMEN!!!!!

I think the only people not attending seminars are the people having success...Conincidence?

The difference is Fear. I see most peoples training driven by one hundered forms of fear and self-delusion. Scared to make mistakes, scared to try new things, That's why they pay people for seminars....to remove thier fear. If they just get the right knowledge they will be able to avoid making those dreadful things called mistakes. And avoid that awful thing lurking just around the corner...failure. It's is through my mistakes and failures I have learned the most. Not some seminar with this guy or that. I have taken a nugget or two away from a seminar or two. But I have harvested a whole mine by exercising my critical thinker. Learn to problem solve is my goal. not go to a seminar and hope someone else has the answer and if they don't! I am still out my money.

This theory is still a work in progress, so we will see if I am right. And if I fail or make mistake on this one ....I will have learned something. and that's the point.


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

James Downey said:


> AMEN!!!!!
> 
> I think the only people not attending seminars are the people having success...Conincidence?
> 
> ...


Eh, I don't know. I just go to them to learn from some noted good trainers, a/o have gone to get some bitework. That and ask a few questions, since I'm still new. I still kind of filter everything through my trainers, but I also like getting different people's perspectives. Granted, I have not been successful yet, maybe never will. Still, I'm not scared of making mistakes, just like seeing what different trainers see relative to what I see in reading dogs, how they react to behaviors X, Y, or Z, and if they explain things I like comparing them to my mores or thought processes of dogs and whatnot.

I am aware of people that have gone to seminars AND been successful. There is no real direct correlation.

Gillian DID make some good points, but I would make a few disclaimers:



Gillian Schuler said:


> I find it sad that only big names are tossed around for learning how to work with a dog. USA is such a large country and from what I hear doesn't have the club possibilities that we have in Europe but, I've heard of people travelling X-miles to attend a seminar from which they undoubtedly can learn a lot but what is more useful, is the weekly club advice. How many attend a seminar and a week or two later are stumped although they "knew what they had to do".
> 
> I watched a video of Michael Ellis (sent from Leerburg by email) just a short sequence of focusing on the handler and I had to admit - what he said had hand and foot but I learned this from our club years ago. There must be numerous club handlers that can teach someone the same but on a weekly-to-weekly basis??? When problems occur, Michael is not around (God save his soul) but the club members are.
> 
> Just a thought??


First, the "big names" are tossed around, at least by me, because they are most likely the ones people are going to know and have been exposed to. The "little names" or ones that are out of fashion are less likely to be mentioned.

Second, I think there is an unwritten assumption that you have trainers a/o clubs you train with regularly. I don't think anybody is saying seminars take the place of having a regular trainer that sees you and your dog on a regular basis. Just that seminars can offer you fresh perspectives, supplement the training you are already doing, be another pair of eyes examining what you do with your dogs and then offering you ideas for things to do or work on. That does NOT mean I am saying "yeah, go to a couple of Michael Ellis seminars, screw weekly training, and you'll totally make Nationals." Just that the original post asked specifically for seminars as a n00b, as another n00b I'm saying I've found it interesting, fun, and helpful to go to a few and watch how they work, what they look for, how they seem to evaluate the dogs & handlers, and just add it to my experience learning about working dogs and how to read/handle dogs. If they'd asked about how to overall get better, you'd have probably gotten more people saying "seminars are good, but a regular trainer/club would be better since you'll get regular training and feedback from somebody who sees you and your dog interact on a regular basis.

So yeah, regular training is great, seminars can be useful to get another expert's opinion. I mean, the local MMA club had Randy Couture a few years ago (which means a LOT more to me now than it did then, wish I'd have gone). I'm sure the more one knew the more he could help you fine-tune things, rather than expecting to go in as a total novice and have him train you to take on Fedor or GSP. If they were training for a fight and had their game pretty much rounded out, he could show some tips or correct some minor holes in their game in a fashion that could prove crucial in some fashion. Similarly, people that have regularly trained and needed advice for breaking through to the next level or for dealing with specific issues seemed to get more out of the few seminars I've been through than the ones who hadn't worked their dogs through some pretty basic stuff a/o had predictable issues that other trainers could have (or in at least one instance, HAD) told them they should fix and shown them how to do it FIRST.

I acknowledge the points, just saying that is not quite what people were getting at or what was being asked for. They both (clubs [or just regular trainers] & seminars) sound like they could be useful pieces in the whole process though. For what it's worth.

-Cheers


----------

