# Varka mill work



## Timothy Stacy

Anybody interested in a mill these are the best.Female pup first time on the mill
Graubaer's CVarka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq77Fvf1gF0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Graubaer's Boker first time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5rk3t6k47Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## charles Turner

Timothy Stacy said:


> Anybody interested in a mill these are the best.Female pup first time on the mill
> Graubaer's CVarka
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq77Fvf1gF0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> Graubaer's Boker first time
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5rk3t6k47Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player


 where did you get the mill?
thanks..


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## Timothy Stacy

Dogtrotter.com 
Anyone who has gotten one last year will tell you these new ones have been completely resigned. The chains are now on slides which makes it easier to change to differnt size dogs. The bearings are all different and many other features. They are built to last a LONG time. 
This is the guy who actually makes them for dog trotter, so it's not mine.


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## Mike Scheiber

Don't know this for a fact I've been told repetitive things like jogging/running are bad for pups/young dogs till every thing has grown into place.
Pup looks to like it though. Ive considered some sort of exercise like this, Jett is very aggressive playing fetch and I wonder how much beating his shoulders and joints can take this is pretty much his primary exercise aside from training and there ain't much of that happening now due to weather


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## Timothy Stacy

Mike I have some video somewhere that shows how much shock these absorb. If you let this dog run in the yard she run run and jump over shit for a half hour, so 3 minutes on a mill that aborbs shock is nothing. You should think about one with that Minnesota weather.


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## Daniel Lybbert

That is sweet. A bit expensive I would say. Could probably build it for under 500 bucks. Dogs look good on it.


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## Timothy Stacy

Good luck, its all aluminum, stainless steel, power coated, many abec bearings, assembly line belts, hydraulic break, hubs for a go cart, fiberglass, and what ever they use on the belt that the dog actually runs on, knob slides, paint, bolts. I think the material alone is over 500 and that don't include the welding and time in general. And when your first prototype doesn't work well?
And I do think there is a profit margin.


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## Mike Scheiber

Timothy Stacy said:


> Mike I have some video somewhere that shows how much shock these absorb. If you let this dog run in the yard she run run and jump over shit for a half hour, so 3 minutes on a mill that aborbs shock is nothing. You should think about one with that Minnesota weather.


What I was told it's the repetitive motion at length can???? cause problems. There was no reference to tread mills, this was regarding people running and jogging with puppies and young dogs at long distances. I just thought I would mention this cause............. well someone said this and I must have been in ear shot of the conversation. I have no clue if its true or who said it :lol:
And yes being the worn out tired bastard that I am/will be a tread mill would be a great tool for my dog, work is going to go crazy for me for about 8 weeks 7 12's $$$$$.$$ so I might have to snap one of them things up :mrgreen:


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## Tammy St. Louis

looks like the track is a bit short, these are pups? wont work well for thier stride when they are adults, you can actually cause problems if they are trying to shorten thier stride to accomidate the treadmill, 
they do look like they are having fun though


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> looks like the track is a bit short, these are pups? wont work well for thier stride when they are adults, you can actually cause problems if they are trying to shorten thier stride to accomidate the treadmill,
> they do look like they are having fun though


 Good to know, I disagree. Glad the owner won't have them in the show ring. Are you a vet? I used a mill on my dogs and I can show you the stride is just fine on and off the mill even while sprinting on the mill.


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## Timothy Stacy

Could be possible that mill is a medium compared to the 4 in the back ground. I really don't care to ask or even rewarch the video. I think you should stay away from mills as you might have anxiety over the perfect stride later in the dogs life.:-?

Did you know you shouldn't play tug with your dog as it could make him/her aggressive?


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## Tammy St. Louis

i am not a vet but am a certified K- 9 bodyworker, which is massage, , learned alot about rehab thoughout the yrs, and have pit bulls, so know enough about the treadmills, 
I dont have show dogs so , not sure what that comment was, 

I am just saying, you can disagree,... they are not my dogs, but one of the people who was in rehab told me the tread mill should be 2x the dogs length , to not interfere with stride,


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## Timothy Stacy

Timothy Stacy said:


> Tell that one person they should stop making stuff up on their own and passing it off as the truth. I do canine martial arts and Chicago street ring so....


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## Kelly Readman

I've looked at those mills before for my Ab's in the winter. I'm pretty sure they do come in differnt lengths saw a kennel with 4 adult Rotties running on them side by side full stride! Got a friend who is a machinist and has pits he built his own mill took him a couple tries to get it right but nothing as quiet as these machines that's for sure!


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> i am not a vet but am a certified K- 9 bodyworker, which is massage, , learned alot about rehab thoughout the yrs, and have pit bulls, so know enough about the treadmills,
> I dont have show dogs so , not sure what that comment was,
> 
> I am just saying, you can disagree,... they are not my dogs, but one of the people who was in rehab told me the tread mill should be 2x the dogs length , to not interfere with stride,


I also know this guy that has many pit bulls in his do Jo and said the mill should not be to long as it gives the dog to much room to go flat which leads to bad hips.He even proved it to me by taking 2 pits who had bad hips and ran on mills earlier in their life. It had nothing to do with genetics, old age, fighting, or being raised on slippery floors, and I know it's fact because he told me. 
He also said he had a dog with bsd hips when lived in a second floor apartment, that was due to the stairs he climbed everyday. It really ****ed with his stride and he will never allow his dog to climb stairs again.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>Tell that one person they should stop making stuff up on their own and passing it off as the truth

they dont make it up , she deals with rehab all day everyday with many dogs, she makes a good living at it , 

but in the end i dont care what you do with your dogs, i am sure this is NOT thier only form of exercise, so , take what you want out of what i said , or nothing, it doesnt matter really ,


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> i am not a vet but am a certified K- 9 bodyworker, which is massage, , learned alot about rehab thoughout the yrs, and have pit bulls, so know enough about the treadmills,
> I dont have show dogs so , not sure what that comment was,
> 
> I am just saying, you can disagree,... they are not my dogs, but one of the people who was in rehab told me the tread mill should be 2x the dogs length , to not interfere with stride,


You know the funniest part about this is that some "supposed" asshole has a pit on a treadmill, which tells me that you related the pit to the treadmill which we all know there a undertone that it was a fighting pit, right? 
This same asshole brings his fighting pit in for a doggie massage, ****ing hilarious and absolute made up bullshit.


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## Tammy St. Louis

i am saying if you are running on a treadmill , you should not be scared of falling off the back , if you constantly fall off the beck you shorten your stride, 
think of it in people how hard it would be to run on a super short treadmill, 
OR DONT,, lol


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>> You know the funniest part about this is that some "supposed" asshole has a pit on a treadmill, which tells me that you related the pit to the treadmill which we all know there a undertone that it was a fighting pit, right? 
This same asshole brings his fighting pit in for a doggie massage, ****ing hilarious and absolute made up bullshit.


wow you really read into ALOT that is NOT posted, Kinda like living in your own world really 

ill break it down a bit better so you can understand 

K I have dogs. 

Some are pit bulls 

I do sports with my dogs , agility flyball and so on, 

they have been injured, 

I did rehab with them then eventually decided i was interested in it , and went to school for it 

..
NEXT PART< 

I have pit bulls , 

I know alot of pit bull People 

ALot of pit bull people use treadmill , ( some for fighting ) others for exercise

so i have learned a bit about treadmills from them 

they dont take thier dogs for massages, 

does this make it clear
or do you need further Break down ,


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## Timothy Stacy

Ride that bike backwards Tammy. Fighting pitbulls going for doggie massages, I needed a laugh. Thank you. Those dogs were terrified of falling off LMAO. You have obviously never ran s dog on a treadmill and you have no idea what your talking about. Call PETA and tell them your BS. Anybody who has ever ran a dog on a mill knows what happens if the mill is to long. The dog god fast slows down goes fast slows down. Yeah no wonder your friends clients all have bad strides she's giving them bad advice to get mire business.


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## Tammy St. Louis

the fighting pit bulls LOVE massage, 

>> You have obviously never ran s dog on a treadmill and you have no idea what your talking about

never ran A dog, your right , but i have ran 7 of mine on a treadmill , many times , but A dog , or S dog , ( as you put it ) nope 

>>The dog god fast slows down

When the DOG GOD fast SLOWS down, you know its good !!! lol


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## Timothy Stacy

Typing on a phone isn't easy,sorry. Go back to your appropriately named stupid question thread and use the word spaghetti ](*,)](*,)](*,).
Better yet, buy a trained dog, tell it guard and take off running.

I feel sorry you got caught making up a bunch of bull shit on something you know nothing about.

By the way the post above is really clever and funny.


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> the fighting pit bulls LOVE massage,
> 
> >> You have obviously never ran s dog on a treadmill and you have no idea what your talking about
> 
> never ran A dog, your right , but i have ran 7 of mine on a treadmill , many times , but A dog , or S dog , ( as you put it ) nope
> 
> >>The dog god fast slows down
> 
> When the DOG GOD fast SLOWS down, you know its good !!! lol


On a iphone

the 

S is next to the

A

so the D

is next to

the S.

Do 

YOU 

SEE 

HOW 

that 
mistake 
was made?

My phone is also smart and sometimes it picks words I don't want, DDDDOOOOO YYYYYOOOOUUUU
understand? My phone is a liar like someone else I know.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>> 
I feel sorry you got caught 

Dont feel sorry for me , I can handle myself, I massage fighting pitbulls, 

>>Better yet, buy a trained dog, tell it guard and take off running.

Na I wouldnt buy a trained dog, maybe someone trained them on short treadmills, and there stride would be messed up , so when i run , they would look a bit OFF,, 
or maybe the trained dog you talk of , is the trained to fight pit bulls?
they are ok , they LOVE the massage, they wouldnt chase me


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>.My phone is a liar like someone else I know.

You know a Liar? thats HARD to belive , 

I dont lie , its not in me really , not sure what you think i lie about 

well the massaging fighting pit bulls may be streching the truth , but I do massage, Pitbulls who have been in fights before,, , does that count ?


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## Timothy Stacy

I bet they would sure like a HAPPY ENDING.
You have been defeated.

I win you lose. 

You have to have intelligence to know your being insulted, so I know I can't hurt your feelings. Go back to your BC bud and dream up more BS.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>You have been defeated.

I win you lose.


NOPE. lol maybe in your head 

>>Go back to your BC bud

what is a BC bud?


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>
> 
> what is a BC bud?


I was about to say "don't play stupid with me", and then I remembered something......:smile:

Memory loss is the first sign


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## chad paquin

I have a colby carpet mill and love it. With the new england winters it has been great. Had a dog blow out a knee and hope that keepn her moven will help her not get hurt.
I have talked with a friend on how to work her on it and really am pleased with how she is turning out.


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## Timothy Stacy

chad paquin said:


> I have a colby carpet mill and love it. With the new england winters it has been great. Had a dog blow out a knee and hope that keepn her moven will help her not get hurt.
> I have talked with a friend on how to work her on it and really am pleased with how she is turning out.


Carpet mills are a bit different. They are used more for power than endurance! But, I did hear they are good also.


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## Anna Kasho

Q for Tammy. WHAT problems are created by short treadmill / shortened stride? Specific examples pls... Pics or x-rays, etc?

@ Tim, nice pups & nice treadmill.

3 minutes at 5mph is barely a quarter mile. 5mph is somewhere between a fast walk and a slow jog for a human. A walk around my block according is 0.45miles (almost half mile). Nowhere does it say that a pup's joints would be bent out of shape by a walk around the block. So.

However, a pup on a walk around the block will be constantly changing speed, stopping, turning, changing direction, never stepping the same way twice, free motion. (unless you worship Cezar Milan, dog-must-follow packleader, lol) 

Tread mill is jog-trot always with the same motion, in the same direction. So there's a point to think about, because constant repetitive stress does alter growing bones, and there are many examples to be found. More human than dog that I can think of off hand... 

I bike with my adult dogs, not the pups, though I teach them how it works fairly early. The adults average 9-11mph trotting, and can go for an hour and more. Don't really use a treadmill much anymore, but it was a lifesaver when I first messed up my shoulders and couldn't hold them on a leash. I have a grands carpet mill, the medium sized one. The dogs all seem to like it. Never had problems with it being too short or dogs falling off the end :razz: They usually start off with a good gallop then settle to a steady trot that they can keep up indefinitely...


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## Bob Scott

I don't think a mill will shorten a natural stride as long as it's not the only access for them getting exercised. 
I've seen show dog's kenneled practically their whole life that would rarely break out of a fast trot. Given a couple of weeks to run on open ground and they will naturally fall into a gallop once they learn, reprogram, or whatever it is that brings it back into play "IF" their structure allows it.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>>Q for Tammy. WHAT problems are created by short treadmill / shortened stride? Specific examples pls... Pics or x-rays, etc?

just changes to the muscles, makes them move more abnormal , so they develop muscles where they shouldnt and dont devlop them where they would on normal free running , like if you always take short steps when you walk, then when you walk in LONG strides you feel it more in your butt and leg muscles , same thing, 
its repetitive motion over and over again , causing muscle changes 
no xrays or pics, sorry 
and a dog would NOT have many issues, if you just did the treadmill here and there on days you cant get out with it , but if its repetative over and over, it will change structure.


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## Christopher Jones

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>Q for Tammy. WHAT problems are created by short treadmill / shortened stride? Specific examples pls... Pics or x-rays, etc?
> 
> just changes to the muscles, makes them move more abnormal , so they develop muscles where they shouldnt and dont devlop them where they would on normal free running , like if you always take short steps when you walk, then when you walk in LONG strides you feel it more in your butt and leg muscles , same thing,
> its repetitive motion over and over again , causing muscle changes
> no xrays or pics, sorry
> and a dog would NOT have many issues, if you just did the treadmill here and there on days you cant get out with it , but if its repetative over and over, it will change structure.


Dont say anything, its a trap.... lol


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## Drew Peirce

epic comic relief, this thread:lol:


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## Timothy Stacy

Drew Peirce said:


> epic comic relief, this thread:lol:


I even switched to a real computer a couple post ago as I didn't want my spelling errors interfering with the discussion, but I just lost the drive!

Like most women in dog sports, they wear you down through attrition until you eventually give up and quit.


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## Timothy Stacy

anna kasho said:


> q for tammy. What problems are created by short treadmill / shortened stride? Specific examples pls... Pics or x-rays, etc?
> 
> @ tim, nice pups & nice treadmill.
> 
> 3 minutes at 5mph is barely a quarter mile. 5mph is somewhere between a fast walk and a slow jog for a human. A walk around my block according is 0.45miles (almost half mile). Nowhere does it say that a pup's joints would be bent out of shape by a walk around the block. So.
> 
> However, a pup on a walk around the block will be constantly changing speed, stopping, turning, changing direction, never stepping the same way twice, free motion. (unless you worship cezar milan, dog-must-follow packleader, lol)
> 
> tread mill is jog-trot always with the same motion, in the same direction. So there's a point to think about, because constant repetitive stress does alter growing bones, and there are many examples to be found. More human than dog that i can think of off hand...
> 
> I bike with my adult dogs, not the pups, though i teach them how it works fairly early. The adults average 9-11mph trotting, and can go for an hour and more. Don't really use a treadmill much anymore, but it was a lifesaver when i first messed up my shoulders and couldn't hold them on a leash. I have a grands carpet mill, the medium sized one. The dogs all seem to like it. Never had problems with it being too short or dogs falling off the end :razz: They usually start off with a good gallop then settle to a steady trot that they can keep up indefinitely...


Yes, Yes, and more YES. I couldn't have put that better on my Iphone, no way no how!


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## Mike Scheiber

Timothy Stacy said:


> Like most women in dog sports, they wear you down through attrition until you eventually give up and quit.


Sad truth :lol:


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>> they wear you down through attrition until you eventually give up and quit.


ROCK N ROLL BABY!!! lol


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>> they wear you down through attrition until you eventually give up and quit.
> 
> 
> ROCK N ROLL BABY!!! lol


You had me at "shorten their stride" , I was fighting a lost battle!


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## Tammy St. Louis

it was fun while it lasted Tim! 
i had a good time


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## Timothy Stacy

Yes it was Tammy, and you are always invited to my doggy aerobics classes if your in the area.
After my long nap I realized the errors of my way and I've decided to turn over a new leaf. I walk away a better metro sexual from this encounter.


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## Tammy St. Louis

PERFECT!!!!

and then later you can use the LRG mill instead of medium , but dont tell me you are doing it ,


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> PERFECT!!!!
> 
> and then later you can use the LRG mill instead of medium , but dont tell me you are doing it ,


Before this encounter I thought the only good things coming out of Canada was Comedians, Playboy playmates,and BC bud; but now I can add you to the list Tammy.
Of coarse you could easily fall under the comedian category, hell who knows you may also be a playmate.


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## Daniel Lybbert

and a pot smoker?


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## Gerry Grimwood

Timothy Stacy said:


> Before this encounter I thought the only good things coming out of Canada was Comedians, Playboy playmates,and BC bud; but now I can add you to the list Tammy.
> Of coarse you could easily fall under the comedian category, hell who knows you may also be a playmate.


We are also responsible for the Salmon Arm that is used by NASA.


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## Timothy Stacy

Gerry Grimwood said:


> We are also responsible for the Salmon Arm that is used by NASA.


Check that, I'm at the gym running on the treadmill and your post ****ed up my stride and I fell off the back. I'm going to be inquiring about longer treadmills at the front desk. Thanks Gerry, I have mill rash all over my chest.


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## Martine Loots

Tammy St. Louis said:


> I am just saying, you can disagree,... they are not my dogs, but one of the people who was in rehab told me the * tread mill should be 2x the dogs length , to not interfere with stride*,


Agree and if this is not the fact then it's bad for the body. Also the dog shouldn't be running but doing "an easy trot". A lot better to improve endurance then running fast.

We do a lot of treadmill training with the dogs. This is the model we have www.fitfurlife.com 
For the malinois we use their largest model, which has a 2 meter length.


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## Alison Grubb

Timothy Stacy said:


> Dogtrotter.com
> Anyone who has gotten one last year will tell you these new ones have been completely resigned. The chains are now on slides which makes it easier to change to differnt size dogs. The bearings are all different and many other features. They are built to last a LONG time.
> This is the guy who actually makes them for dog trotter, so it's not mine.


I like these treadmills too. They are really well made. The guy really puts a lot of effort into them and takes pride in what he does. They are a tad expensive but I am more than happy to support someone who produces a product of this caliber.

The website is actually www.dogtrotter.net


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I was just dying here. A quarter mile on a treadmill and the dog is going to have muscles where they shouldn't and it will change their structure.

I had a friend who went to school to be a hairstylist. She told me once that they taught her that sun was good for your hair, as it grew faster.

I guess it never occurred to you that you were just taught all ****ed up. LOL

Attrition ? I'm your huckleberry.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>>A quarter mile on a treadmill and the dog is going to have muscles where they shouldn't and it will change their structure.

Nope i never said that ever, 
I said ,,,,

and a dog would NOT have many issues, if you just did the treadmill here and there on days you cant get out with it , but if its repetative over and over, it will change structure.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

No it won't. Not ever. Structure is not going to change from a treadmill. Do you have the correct definition of structure ?

Please cite one study from your "school" that taught you this stupid shit on treadmills changing structure.


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## Tammy St. Louis

I may be saying it wrong, as stucture, but it changes muscles, which can cause problems , 
I am not going through all my stuff from yrs ago to bother finding anything, look it up on the internet i am sure you will find out info ,


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Look it up on the internet, kinda like I should look up a doggie massage school ? There is nothing out there.


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## Gina Pasieka

Hey Tim. I just ordered one a few weeks ago. Looking forward to it arriving. Can you tell me how loud it is? I am placing it in my finished basement, so just wondering. Did you play with the pups before you put them on there? I have put my pup on my friends treadmill for a few minutes at a time, but he runs full out...so was wondering how you got them to keep that nice pace?


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## Timothy Stacy

I used the break or a towel. I taught them to stop so if they got hurt they could stop there self. The one I had wasn't that loud. I took them on and off with food a few times first while making sure the mill did not move. 
The other problem with a motorized one is they can't stop it themselves if they are hurt. Never had a problem with the size either. I put a beagle up and it would run to the front and put it's nose down and almost fall off the back and then run to the front again. The mill was to big for the dog. All this talk about 2x the dogs size is made up.Somebody says it or writes it once, or feels sorry for the dog and makes up BS in which others believe and repeat. The way rumors get started.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>>Look it up on the internet, kinda like I should look up a doggie massage school ? There is nothing out there

well you may not be trying to hard, 
i just went to google search , and pages of it came up , its not my fault you cant use a computer jeff, lol 

>> The mill was to big for the dog. 


how on earth can a tread mill be too long, now that my freind ... is hilarious
my back yrd is too long too when the dogs play they have to much room and 
and then when i take them walking in the bush , its more than 2 x thier length and they cant do it , 
that, is the stupidest thing , i have h eard. ( well its up there anyways, ) 
treadmill to too big, ...


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## Timothy Stacy

Just said that to piss you off and show how easy it is for somebody to make up Bullshit, then somebody on hear reads it and repeats it to friends. Kinda of like the bs you are spewing. Did you know 85% of statistics are made up?see I just made that up too.


Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>Look it up on the internet, kinda like I should look up a doggie massage school ? There is nothing out there
> 
> well you may not be trying to hard,
> i just went to google search , and pages of it came up , its not my fault you cant use a computer jeff, lol
> 
> >> The mill was to big for the dog.
> 
> 
> how on earth can a tread mill be too long, now that my freind ... is hilarious
> my back yrd is too long too when the dogs play they have to much room and
> and then when i take them walking in the bush , its more than 2 x thier length and they cant do it ,
> that, is the stupidest thing , i have h eard. ( well its up there anyways, )
> treadmill to too big, ...


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## Timothy Stacy

And for your info I'm a dog tickler and if you tickle a dog in the right spot it will unlock so much, as if the dogs body is talking to you. My master/mentor tickler tickled my dogs leg on the inner thigh and the dog told him that he needs a new treadmill because i sold mine. The dog also mentioned the size was perfect for his stride.

Massaging is actually bad for the dog because it penetrates to deep into the dogs muscle tissue and can cause problems. All therapy should be done by tickling as it's more natural And it brings blood to the outer most part of the dogs body without causing stress in the muscle.


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## Timothy Stacy

Look, game over I found the almighty FAQ sheet.
http://www.dogtrotter.net/faq-4.htm

Since the bars on top are adjustable why would it matter if it was 4 feet longer when the dog is positioned securely in one spot?


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## Timothy Stacy

In all seriousness Rick Rutt has a newer one he is selling for 1200. Pm him or myself if you are interested.


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## Martine Loots

Timothy Stacy said:


> I used the break or a towel. I taught them to stop so if they got hurt they could stop there self. The one I had wasn't that loud. I took them on and off with food a few times first while making sure the mill did not move.
> *The other problem with a motorized one is they can't stop it themselves if they are hurt*. Never had a problem with the size either. I put a beagle up and it would run to the front and put it's nose down and almost fall off the back and then run to the front again. The mill was to big for the dog. All this talk about 2x the dogs size is made up.Somebody says it or writes it once, or feels sorry for the dog and makes up BS in which others believe and repeat. The way rumors get started.


Every good motorized treadmill has a safety lock that is attached to both the harness and the safety pin on the treadmill. If there would be an irregularity in the dog's movement, the pin unlocks and the treadmill stops.

I prefer a motorized treadmill because I want to be in control of the dog's speed and workout program.
I can enter the program (time-speed-incline) in the treadmill's computer and each dog will get an adapted workout.
For a dog in good shape we give a 5 minutes warming up at low speed, then 5 minutes at increased speed without incline, then 5 minutes same speed but with incline, 2 minutes high speed and then a 5 minutes cool down.
To enforce the neck muscles (to prevent neck injuries) they wear collars with weight.


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## Timothy Stacy

Sounds like a nice mill.


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## Tammy St. Louis

I also use a motorized treadmill with my dogs, same reason as Martine, want to be in control of speed, so they walk for a bit , trot for a bit and walk for a bit, 
i am always in the same room with them watching so i know if something is wrong


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Since the bars on top are adjustable why would it matter if it was 4 feet longer when the dog is positioned securely in one spot

You ruined it Tim. I was going to hand her her ass with that one.

Like I said. I'm your huckleberry, thats JUST my game.


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## Connie Sutherland

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>A quarter mile on a treadmill and the dog is going to have muscles where they shouldn't and it will change their structure.
> 
> Nope i never said that ever, ....





Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>Q for Tammy. WHAT problems are created by short treadmill / shortened stride?
> 
> just changes to the muscles, makes them move more abnormal , so they develop muscles where they shouldnt  and dont devlop them where they would on normal free running ... its repetitive motion over and over again , causing muscle changes ... a dog would NOT have many issues, if you just did the treadmill here and there on days you cant get out with it , but if its repetative over and over, it will change structure.


I swear I don't have any of whatever Tim is smoking (although I do keep laughing; contact high, I guess). But I don't get how that recap of the original quote differs from the actual original quote. Is it the dailiness as opposed to "here and there when you can't get out," or "short treadmill"?


eta
I have used a daily treadmill (but I didn't know about short-versus-long) for PT with a post-surgery dog. I realize that's not much experience with it, but anyway, I didn't see changes beyond regaining the muscle he had before the crate-rest. And he was monitored by me and the rehab guy.


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## Ashley Campbell

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Since the bars on top are adjustable why would it matter if it was 4 feet longer when the dog is positioned securely in one spot
> 
> You ruined it Tim. I was going to hand her her ass with that one.
> 
> Like I said. I'm your huckleberry, thats JUST my game.


Easy Doc Holiday 

I've used a motorized treadmill when I was in upstate NY. I'll be damned if I'm getting out in several feet of snow to fall on my ass to walk the dog. Mine was a human one I found on craigslist for free and you could clip the "I've fallen and I can't get up" lead to their collar in case they slip.


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> I also use a motorized treadmill with my dogs, same reason as Martine, want to be in control of speed, so they walk for a bit , trot for a bit and walk for a bit,
> i am always in the same room with them watching so i know if something is wrong


When the dog controls the speed it's always different, never repetitive.


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## Timothy Stacy

Connie Sutherland said:


> I swear I don't have any of whatever Tim is smoking (although I do keep laughing; contact high, I guess). .


Baked banana peals!


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## Timothy Stacy

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Since the bars on top are adjustable why would it matter if it was 4 feet longer when the dog is positioned securely in one spot
> 
> You ruined it Tim. I was going to hand her her ass with that one.
> 
> Like I said. I'm your huckleberry, thats JUST my game.


=D> Here's to you, a non alcoholic internet beverage!


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## Connie Sutherland

Timothy Stacy said:


> Baked banana peals!


Ah. Peals of laughter. :lol:


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## leslie cassian

Don't want to throw fuel on this fire, but... how do you choose the correct treadmill length? I see from the site he has different sizes - both wide and long, but how do you determine the best size for your dog?

If I think about my dogs, the Mal and the DS are both about the same length nose to tail, but the Mal is about 3-4 inches taller than the DS and very leggy. Longer legs - longer stride? 

Just curious... I'd love to order one, but it's way out of my budget.


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## Timothy Stacy

[-X =; LOL get the biggest or the next size down.


leslie cassian said:


> Don't want to throw fuel on this fire, but... how do you choose the correct treadmill length? I see from the site he has different sizes - both wide and long, but how do you determine the best size for your dog?
> 
> If I think about my dogs, the Mal and the DS are both about the same length nose to tail, but the Mal is about 3-4 inches taller than the DS and very leggy. Longer legs - longer stride?
> 
> Just curious... I'd love to order one, but it's way out of my budget.


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## Joby Becker

I hope this treadmill I just got will change MY structure


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Timothy Stacy said:


> Good luck, its all aluminum, stainless steel, power coated, many abec bearings, assembly line belts, hydraulic break, hubs for a go cart, fiberglass, and what ever they use on the belt that the dog actually runs on, knob slides, paint, bolts. I think the material alone is over 500 and that don't include the welding and time in general. And when your first prototype doesn't work well?
> And I do think there is a profit margin.


And that power coating *really* helps out! :lol:
Seriously tho, these mills are the shiznit! He trucked one all the way out to my training group so we could run a few dogs on it & check it out in person. The workmanship is Quality! Definitely on my "Want List"!!!


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Timothy Stacy said:


> Carpet mills are a bit different. They are used more for power than endurance! But, I did hear they are good also.


Just as a humorous aside.. I recently bought a Grand carpet mill 2nd hand, & the 1st thing I noticed was that the carpet was on rubber-backing side out. I figured the original purchasers must had really screwed it up when they assembled it & I'd just take it apart & flip the carpet the right way. Then I got it home & really looked at it -this thing looks will take some MAJOR monkeying with to take apart to put the belt on the right way, so I call the company for advice. Turns out that the belt comes already installed on the base.. *Rubber Out*!
When I asked why they would make them like that, I was told so it would be easy for the dog to turn! 
Why in the hell wouldn't somebody get a slatmill if it was supposed to be easy for the dog to work?!? 
I should say the person I talked to at Grand was really nice.. I just can't comprehend why they sell "Carpet Mills" that aren't...


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Timothy Stacy said:


> Like most women in dog sports, they wear you down through attrition until you eventually give up and quit.


Hey, now! :sad:

That real keyboard must be workin' for ya.. "attrition" is certainly a bump up from misspelling 3-lettered words -even though you use it repetitively. :-\"
<jk> :lol:


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## Anna Kasho

For whatever it's worth, I once tried to see what it would take to get my first mal tired out. Biked with him for 2 hours, *I* was tired, stopped at a park to give him a break and he was still running around pushing me to play.  Just recently trotted him to work, 11 miles with the bike took just under 1.5 hours. Not tired, not limping, too much energy to sit still in a cage so he did some OB and played bitework with the other groomer. No problem! :mrgreen:

I have the exact same carpet mill. I don't care if it's harder to turn, I just want the damn dog more tired getting off it than he went on. The only reason I got the mill, because I couldn't exercise them enough at the time.

The slat mills come with a brake too, no?


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Anna Kasho said:


> I have the exact same carpet mill. I don't care if it's harder to turn, I just want the damn dog more tired getting off it than he went on. The only reason I got the mill, because I couldn't exercise them enough at the time.
> The slat mills come with a brake too, no?


When I purchased the carpet mill, I thought it was _a carpet mill_.. that is, a mill that's hard for the dog to work, historically used for building muscle. A slatmill is/was historically used for building endurance, & I had planned to add one of those to my doggie workout room -next to the whirlpool & massage table. ;-)

I can see where the Grand mill with its rubber facing out is fine for somebody just looking to exercise their dogs & don't care about each mill's individual original function, it's just not what I thought I was getting when I purchased it.That's my fault for not looking into it more thoroughly. No problem, especially now that slatmills do have a brake & can function for both purposes. Once I get the funds together for my slatmill, I'll definitely sell the carpet mill. I may even wind up having to sell it before, as my Boerboels don't really fit on it to well & the attach points on it have way too much give which just makes the whole problem with the length of it that much worse. They actually *do* "fall off" the back of it, since there is so much slack in the hook up. I'm hoping as they get used to it, they'll figure out how to run it better -they were used to trotting on my NordicTrak treadmill.


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## Anna Kasho

I guess I've never seen a carpet mill with the carpet side out... It doesn't spin freely like a slat mill, so the dog does work harder. Maybe it's not much of a challenge for a big mastiff? :-k


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## Martine Loots

Timothy Stacy said:


> When the dog controls the speed it's always different, never repetitive.


But then he just does as he likes and it's impossible to follow a controlled endurance schedule and check the exact improvement which is exactly what we need it for.

Allow the dog to do as he likes is ok if you just want him to have some fun but if you are working to a target you need to be in control.


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## Timothy Stacy

Martine Loots said:


> But then he just does as he likes and it's impossible to follow a controlled endurance schedule and check the exact improvement which is exactly what we need it for.
> 
> Allow the dog to do as he likes is ok if you just want him to have some fun but if you are working to a target you need to be in control.


Only when you leave it wide open. You can control speed through hydraulic break settings. Also it will incline and decline. The one you showed actually has a plywood deck underneath. Have you had trouble with that?


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## Timothy Stacy

ALso the speedometer and mileage counter to follow a program.;-) 

These are built for life so you don't have to worry about electronics(other than the speedometer) breaking or the plywood warping. Also much cheaper.


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Anna Kasho said:


> I guess I've never seen a carpet mill with the carpet side out... It doesn't spin freely like a slat mill, so the dog does work harder. Maybe it's not much of a challenge for a big mastiff? :-k


A "normal" carpet mill:








I don't think it's a "mastiff thing".. I put my S.O.'s 65# Dutchie on it last night, & just tried one of my 35# Boerboel pups. Hmmm, now to go torture my Frenchie pup!! :lol:


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## Timothy Stacy

Wawashkashi Tashi said:


> A "normal" carpet mill:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's a "mastiff thing".. I put my S.O.'s 65# Dutchie on it last night, & just tried one of my 35# Boerboel pups. Hmmm, now to go torture my Frenchie pup!! :lol:


Tashi, nice picture!
Motorized treadmills are for lazy dogs that have to be forced to run


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Timothy Stacy said:


> Tashi, nice picture!
> Motorized treadmills are for lazy dogs that have to be forced to run


Thanks.. tho I can't really take any credit. I just found it on the web & cross-posted it to show what a real carpet mill looks like (I wouldn't run a dog on a carpet mill in a collar, personally).
I totally agree about liking a free-running mill MUCH better! ;-) Can't wait to get one of those awesome slatmills!!!


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## Jim Laubmeier

We bought a Dogtrotter 'Brute' Pro from Bob over a yr ago and love it!!
http://www.dogtrotter.net/treadmills.htm

Great workout for the dogs & Bob is always willing to answer any questions about the mill or conditioning.. Quality, craftsmanship & warranty are 2nd to none.
Ours is powdercoated black with our Firehouse Rottweiler logo
pic here under logos: http://www.dogtrotter.net/acessories.htm

Highly recommend these slat mills! Thanks Bob!!

Jim Laubmeier
www.firehouserotts.com


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## Martine Loots

Timothy Stacy said:


> ALso the speedometer and mileage counter to follow a program.;-)
> 
> These are built for life so you don't have to worry about electronics(other than the speedometer) breaking or the plywood warping. Also much cheaper.


You are comparing apples with pears but no problem, to each his own :wink:

All depends on what you want from a treadmill. A speedometer and mileage counter are of no use to me if I can't direct it and adapt it to the specific training programm every specific dog needs.
I need a more sophisticated mill and I don't mind paying more to have one.



Timothy Stacy said:


> Only when you leave it wide open. You can control speed through hydraulic break settings. Also it will incline and decline. The one you showed actually has a plywood deck underneath. Have you had trouble with that?


I can program the settings (speed - incline - decline - time) in the mill's computer before the workout but also adapt or change them while the dog is running if that would be necessary.
And the mill is manufactured for professional use in clinics or health centers so it's pretty solid. 
We have it for several years already and we train 6 dogs on it on a daily basis.


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## Mike Scheiber

WTF I havent been back to visit this since the first day. Its come very clear to me that putting a dog on one of these thing is bullshit the dog should be playing fetch with a stick, this stick should be about 2" inches in diameter no longer than 2'ft if the dog cannot perform the work/sport asked of it then its shit and has no business taking up oxygen. 
Whats next a drink of water and onto the table


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## Timothy Stacy

Mike Scheiber said:


> WTF I havent been back to visit this since the first day. Its come very clear to me that putting a dog on one of these thing is bullshit the dog should be playing fetch with a stick, this stick should be about 2" inches in diameter no longer than 2'ft if the dog cannot perform the work/sport asked of it then its shit and has no business taking up oxygen.
> Whats next a drink of water and onto the table


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## chris mercer

I'd love to own a dogtrotter mill. Conditioning and training are a bit more involved than one aspect, I guess I shouldn't be surprised how much controversy this post stirred up. To mill or not to mill, six months,9months or not at all. Life is full of things that can cause injury but I believe it is up to the trainer to know enough not to over do it. Playing fetch is great but you better teach it first.

Chris Mercer


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## Mike Scheiber

chris mercer said:


> I'd love to own a dogtrotter mill. Conditioning and training are a bit more involved than one aspect, I guess I shouldn't be surprised how much controversy this post stirred up. To mill or not to mill, six months,9months or not at all. Life is full of things that can cause injury but I believe it is up to the trainer to know enough not to over do it. Playing fetch is great but you better teach it first.
> 
> Chris Mercer


Listen up Chris Mercer certain things cant be taught [-( no sir they has to natural I like to grab my dog kick off my shoes put my dogs favorit stick in my belt loop and head to the park and we play fetch ether they got it inem or they dont


chris mercer said:


> Playing fetch is great but you better teach it first.
> 
> Chris Mercer


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## Martine Loots

Mike Scheiber said:


> WTF I havent been back to visit this since the first day. Its come very clear to me that putting a dog on one of these thing is bullshit the dog should be playing fetch with a stick, this stick should be about 2" inches in diameter no longer than 2'ft if the dog cannot perform the work/sport asked of it then its shit and has no business taking up oxygen.
> Whats next a drink of water and onto the table


I suppose that is where the difference is between just fun and going for the big results. 
Besides dog sport, I'm a tennis fan and Nadal or Federer wouldn't be where they are without a calculated training program, no matter the natural talent they have. 
Same with dogs.

But this doesn't mean there is anything wrong with training for fun.
Depends on what you prefer. 
That's what I meant with comparing apples with pears


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## Timothy Stacy

Martine Loots said:


> I suppose that is where the difference is between just fun and going for the big results.
> Besides dog sport, I'm a tennis fan and Nadal or Federer wouldn't be where they are without a calculated training program, no matter the natural talent they have.
> Same with dogs.
> 
> But this doesn't mean there is anything wrong with training for fun.
> Depends on what you prefer.
> That's what I meant with comparing apples with pears


Martine, they do the same thing, don't you get it???? It has a timer(speed, distance, time) do you can calculate a training program. It can incline and decline, you can set the speed with a hydraulic break. Seriously, it's just built way better. I predict you will be having electronic problems with yours very soon . Besides yours is made for dogs in therapy, not real running, more for a stroll through the park


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## Mike Scheiber

Timothy Stacy said:


> Martine, they do the same thing, don't you get it???? It has a timer(speed, distance, time) do you can calculate a training program. It can incline and decline, you can set the speed with a hydraulic break. Seriously, it's just built way better. I predict you will be having electronic problems with yours very soon . Besides yours is made for dogs in therapy, not real running, more for a stroll through the park





Timothy Stacy;257896 not real running said:


>


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## Timothy Stacy

Mike Scheiber said:


>


Yes the motorized dog mills remind me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o9MCatA3Fo&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Martine Loots

Timothy Stacy said:


> Martine, they do the same thing, don't you get it???? It has a timer(speed, distance, time) do you can calculate a training program. It can incline and decline, you can set the speed with a hydraulic break. Seriously, it's just built way better. I predict you will be having electronic problems with yours very soon . Besides yours is made for dogs in therapy, not real running, more for a stroll through the park


One thing I get and that is that yours is more fit for a stroll in the parc because a dog can stop and lift his leg for a pee any time he likes :lol: 
And I'll tell my poor therapy dogs not to forget their crutches next time they have to climb a podium 

No serious, what's the use of a timer and a speedometer if the dog can just do as he likes on the mill while I'm outside training another dog? I don't have time to stand there and watch them while they get their workout.
And how do the incline/decline/break system work on your mill? Can it be done automatically while the dog is running without disturbing his pace? I bet not and I do need that.

There is quite a lot of mileage already on my mill and even more on the one of my friend. We bought it at the same time and she is a professional therapist who owns a sports and rehabilitation center for dogs. 
Her mill runs continuously for both sports workouts and rehab. No problems yet ;-)
I admit that a mechanical system is less delicate then a computerized one but hey a Ferrari is more delicate then a tractor too  

You like your mill and that's ok. It looks like a nice solid mill but I prefer mine


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## Timothy Stacy

Yes it can be done without disturbing the dogs pace. Dogs with drive are up there and running because they want to. I never leave a dog on a mill without watching them but that's just me. You aren't comparing apples to oranges, rather apples to apples. 
Let me ask you what you drive a Cadillac or Renault and why? The Cadillac is the better vehicle just 4 times the cost but they both get the job done. 
As far as your comment about being on the podium, I know people who are on the podium at their respected sport who use the dogtrotter so let's not go their unless the mill is the only thing putting your husband on the podium.


Martine Loots said:


> One thing I get and that is that yours is more fit for a stroll in the parc because a dog can stop and lift his leg for a pee any time he likes :lol:
> And I'll tell my poor therapy dogs not to forget their crutches next time they have to climb a podium
> 
> No serious, what's the use of a timer and a speedometer if the dog can just do as he likes on the mill while I'm outside training another dog? I don't have time to stand there and watch them while they get their workout.
> And how do the incline/decline/break system work on your mill? Can it be done automatically while the dog is running without disturbing his pace? I bet not and I do need that.
> 
> There is quite a lot of mileage already on my mill and even more on the one of my friend. We bought it at the same time and she is a professional therapist who owns a sports and rehabilitation center for dogs.
> Her mill runs continuously for both sports workouts and rehab. No problems yet ;-)
> I admit that a mechanical system is less delicate then a computerized one but hey a Ferrari is more delicate then a tractor too
> 
> You like your mill and that's ok. It looks like a nice solid mill but I prefer mine


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## Martine Loots

Timothy Stacy said:


> Yes it can be done without disturbing the dogs pace. Dogs with drive are up there and running because they want to. I never leave a dog on a mill without watching them but that's just me. You aren't comparing apples to oranges, rather apples to apples.
> Let me ask you what you drive a Cadillac or Renault and why? The Cadillac is the better vehicle just 4 times the cost but they both get the job done.
> As far as your comment about being on the podium, I know people who are on the podium at their respected sport who use the dogtrotter so let's not go their unless the mill is the only thing putting your husband on the podium.


Only reason why I referred to that podium is because you were suggesting my dogs to be therapy patients.
This is an open discussion and don't think this includes insulting just because someone isn't sharing your opinion?

Now you're suggesting that my dogs don't have drive? Well you are wellcome to put one of yours on my mill and do the workout mine are used to...
No problem to leave the dogs on the mill without watching them either because they are used to it and nothing can happen because of the safety clip system.
While one dog is on the mill, I can walk another one and so it doesn't take me all afternoon to give them their exercise and it leaves me time for a hike afterwards. 

Before purchasing the mill we checked out every existing type because it's an investment we don't do every day. Believe me, if there had been a cheaper type that could have gotten the job done (the way we wanted it) then we would have bought that one.
I talked with vets and quite a few therapy centers and the only mill that met all the standards and was affordable was the one we bought.
At the time they gave a 20% discount if you bought it at the Brussels dog show so the price was about 1600 Euros (which even is cheaper then the dogtrotter pro model). Don't know how much they cost now because it's been a few years.

p.s. I'm driving 2 Renaults and I wouldn't trade the dog van even for a Rolls Royce 
I would trade the other one for a Porsche though because Cadillacs are waaay out of fashion here :wink:


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## Timothy Stacy

I read the first sentences and I'm wondering if you have banana peels soaked in formaldehyde sitting next to you? I never suggested anything you are thinking I suggested about your dogs! Ever hear of a faulty safety clip? You know cars have faulty air bags, breaks, etc.


Martine Loots said:


> Only reason why I referred to that podium is because you were suggesting my dogs to be therapy patients.
> This is an open discussion and don't think this includes insulting just because someone isn't sharing your opinion?
> 
> Now you're suggesting that my dogs don't have drive? Well you are wellcome to put one of yours on my mill and do the workout mine are used to...
> No problem to leave the dogs on the mill without watching them either because they are used to it and nothing can happen because of the safety clip system.
> While one dog is on the mill, I can walk another one and so it doesn't take me all afternoon to give them their exercise and it leaves me time for a hike afterwards.
> 
> Before purchasing the mill we checked out every existing type because it's an investment we don't do every day. Believe me, if there had been a cheaper type that could have gotten the job done (the way we wanted it) then we would have bought that one.
> I talked with vets and quite a few therapy centers and the only mill that met all the standards and was affordable was the one we bought.
> At the time they gave a 20% discount if you bought it at the Brussels dog show so the price was about 1600 Euros (which even is cheaper then the dogtrotter pro model). Don't know how much they cost now because it's been a few years.
> 
> p.s. I'm driving 2 Renaults and I wouldn't trade the dog van even for a Rolls Royce
> I would trade the other one for a Porsche though because Cadillacs are waaay out of fashion here :wink:


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## Timothy Stacy

By the way I'd love to come try a dog on your mill. Dates that are good for you? I'll ride in the van as I'm not really as high class as come off to be on the Internet


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>>This is an open discussion and don't think this includes insulting just because someone isn't sharing your opinion

ha ha , Martine, have you read the rest of this post, I dont think this applies to Tim ..


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>This is an open discussion and don't think this includes insulting just because someone isn't sharing your opinion
> 
> ha ha , Martine, have you read the rest of this post, I dont think this applies to Tim ..


What's that suppose to mean? Where have you been?
Check out the wysiwash system for cleaning piss out of crates. It may save you time and you could join in more.


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>What's that suppose to mean? Where have you been?


Been out dog sledding with my dogs, getting some real exercise..


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## Timothy Stacy

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>What's that suppose to mean? Where have you been?
> 
> 
> Been out dog sledding with my dogs, getting some real exercise..


Cool, Martine's perception was off and she perceived I was insinuated something I was not! So there you have it. Did you find any thin ice to sled over? We couldn't get that lucky could we?


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## Tammy St. Louis

>>>Did you find any thin ice to sled over? We couldn't get that lucky could we?


WOW, thats a nice thought, 
wishing that on someone, kinda crossing the line there Tim , I am all for fun ,but wishing this on someone, not to cool !


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## Timothy Stacy

See your perception is off. I meant we never get that lucky to find thin ice which causes more drag on the sled and makes the dog work harder and gets away from repetitive motion which is bad for the dogs stride. What did you think I meant?


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## Timothy Stacy

Why would I wish bad upon you? You are the next best thing after me. I love you Tammy your fun, I send nothing but instant good karma to you.


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## Mike Scheiber

Mike Scheiber said:


> WTF I havent been back to visit this since the first day. Its come very clear to me that putting a dog on one of these thing is bullshit the dog should be playing fetch with a stick, this stick should be about 2" inches in diameter no longer than 2'ft if the dog cannot perform the work/sport asked of it then its shit and has no business taking up oxygen.
> Whats next a drink of water and onto the table





Martine Loots said:


> I suppose that is where the difference is between just fun and going for the big results.
> Besides dog sport, I'm a tennis fan and Nadal or Federer wouldn't be where they are without a calculated training program, no matter the natural talent they have.
> Same with dogs.
> 
> But this doesn't mean there is anything wrong with training for fun.
> Depends on what you prefer.
> That's what I meant with comparing apples with pears


Im just goofing playing and being a smart ass \\/


----------

