# Dumb Bells retrieves......



## tusar rodavlas (Oct 29, 2008)

Can anyone recommend someone in the Chicagoland area that teaches really good dumb bell retrieves? Thank you.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Mike Scheiber is just north of you and a huge fan of Schutzenders, er dumbells, where was I ?????

Seriously, he does do Sch. Maybe he can tell us how to train the Sch... dumbell retrieve.

Tell him about the nerve hitch Mike, that is the bestest way for Sch dumbell retrieve.

If you cannot, then let me know, and I will tell you how it is done. I am sure I could remember these simple techniques of the forced retrieve. After all in Sch, you have to be sure of these things, no matter what. Points Points Points. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

My Giant Schnauzer once brought back a 21 year old high school freshman. Does that count? =D>


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Can you use a nerve hitch on freshman ?? ? ?


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> If you cannot, then let me know, and I will tell you how it is done. I am sure I could remember these simple techniques of the forced retrieve. After all in Sch, you have to be sure of these things, no matter what. Points Points Points. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


Jeff you are funny 
Why would everyone use force when training this exercise?
I think 99% of your posts you are just having fun, okay maybe 100% of them 

Julie


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Cause the Sch tards I especially like to torture are exactly the same personality of Lil Mikey there.

Plus, how much fun are these boards if you cannot poke the dumb kid every once in a while ? ? ? ?

You are right, about me having fun. : )


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Can you use a nerve hitch on freshman ?? ? ?


I'll try it Monday...if it doesn't work, got employment in Texas? :razz:


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Mike Scheiber is just north of you and a huge fan of Schutzenders, er dumbells, where was I ?????
> 
> Seriously, he does do Sch. Maybe he can tell us how to train the Sch... dumbell retrieve.
> 
> ...


What is a nerve hitch?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Bird dog people use a nerve hitch to teach the dog to take the dumbell, bird what ever in it's mouth no matter what.

It involves some string, a table, and a clovehitch.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Steve Strom said:


> What is a nerve hitch?


Steve it is often used by upland game folks to teach the hold and out commands. Some also use it for Schutzhund. The spin-off is the ear pinch with bottle caps. I don't like either one. Learning through pain I don't like, even for strong dogs. Still waiting to use it on some kids from hell! :twisted: :mrgreen:


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Oh, ok. I've seen video of the dog on the table. Thats just the first time I've seen that term. Thanks Guys.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have seen it done by some really good bird dog trainers, and it is not something for the novice trainer to just start hacking away at.

The hitch employs a nerve pinch, and the pain goes away immediately when the string is released, or so they say. It sure looks like it does. However, there are some dogs that fight it, and that is not pretty.

Forgot to add the overhead cable.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I used the ear pinch for years. The tip of the ear goes between the thumbnail and the choke chain. It works...but!
If the dog has good drive for food or a tug then there is no reason not to teach it motivationally. 
Train with compulsion in order to make it reliable?? :roll:
The method has nothing to do with reliablity.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Well, not so sure that I would say that. I have seen some bumble ****s that get it wrong, but when done correctly, I have never seen a dog not pick up what it was told too.

That is not always the case with motivational methods. Of course, if you are just using a dumbell......or a 21 year old freshman. LOL


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ...That is not always the case with motivational methods. Of course, if you are just using a dumbell......or a 21 year old freshman. LOL


Now that's some funny stuff! =D>


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Well, not so sure that I would say that. I have seen some bumble ****s that get it wrong, but when done correctly, I have never seen a dog not pick up what it was told too.
> 
> That is not always the case with motivational methods. Of course, if you are just using a dumbell......or a 21 year old freshman. LOL


"When done correctly" is the key to the whole thing.
I've seen top level competition dogs stand there like a wart on a frogs ass when sent for the dumbell.
Motivational is no different. It still needs to be "done correctly". 
If a dog doesn't think the correction OR reward is avalable nothing will happen.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

One of the reasons I don't use it is the "used correctly" part of that statement.

I must have watched it done on 20 dogs before I thought I could even think about doing it. I play soccer, so the hand eye thing is not so good. My toes cannot grip the string right. LOL

I tried it on a few dogs and I must of done something right, as they retrieved WHATEVER. I just do not think that my timing is the same as back then, and I do not think that a Mal is a Lab. I never saw a Lab do a gator roll like Buko can, and will do. 

I tried the slip chain ear pinch method, and I didn't have the same results. I had a few dogs that I pinched the crap out of their ear and nothing happened, and I felt like a jerk. I had much better luck with the hitch.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I had great luck with the ear pinch on all the terriers I taught to retrieve. I've only seen one (Airedale) that frustrated the guy so bad I though he was going to put a pliers on the dog's ear.
The dog would just grind his teeth and turn his head away. We finally got it to take the dumbell with the two pinch collar streach. Back in "the good old days". :roll:  
We've had good luck with motivational with the GSDs, Pits, Rotties, ABs, Presas. No gator rolls....till they got the tug reward. The Presas are great for that.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Does anyone have any videos of the force retrieve training? I know how it's done, in theory, but I am still trying to wrap my head around how it gets the dog to retrieve without making him completely shut down or putting him in avoidance of the object. To clarify - I don't need or want to train this way, but I want to understand how/why it works, and I still do not. 

My mals already (naturally) retrieve whatever, which I suppose is the hard part. The formal motions for the retrieve can't be THAT hard to teach motivationally?

I can see how you could use force to "clean up" the exercise...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Leerburg has one done by the Tom Rose school.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The big "theory" on how this shit works is that it stings like a MFer when you are applying the pressure, but it is gone instantly once you release the pressure.

THe forced retrieve wasn't done on dogs that wouldn't retrieve, dogs that didn't retrieve were shot in the head. So that was not the problem. I guess the deal was to prevent the dog from EVER thinking that it didn't have to retrieve.

I was told that all dogs retrieve because it is fun. But in a trial, they have to retrieve what they are told to, and the pressure of the training will cause the dog to stop retrieving consistantly. The people I learned this from competed at the national level, so my thinking was there must be a reason to cause all this squeeking in the dogs.

I wonder how many other sports do the forced retrieve and just dont admit it?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I did it with my AKC competition dogs. As you say, it was done even on a dog with a natural retrieve..just in case.


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