# Proportionality of Rewards



## Eros Kopliku (Jan 30, 2008)

I understand that the type and intensity of rewards should vary based on many variables and that the answer to my question will not necessarily be true for every dog. However, everything else being the same, as a general rule for an adult dog who knows what is being asked of him, should the reward be minimal-to-moderate leaving the dog wanting more or should it be generous showing the dog how great it can be to behave as we ask?

Thanks.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Eros Kopliku said:


> I understand that the type and intensity of rewards should vary based on many variables and that the answer to my question will not necessarily be true for every dog. However, everything else being the same, as a general rule for an adult dog who knows what is being asked of him, should the reward be minimal-to-moderate leaving the dog wanting more or should it be generous showing the dog how great it can be to behave as we ask?
> 
> Thanks.


How food-driven is the dog? That's a way to determine what foods you can get away with still thrill the dog. :lol:

I use high-value rewards when initiating marker work and I also use high-value rewards (or sometimes jackpots) when a particularly long or difficult routine is done just right.

When I get to the point in, say, basic ob, where food rewards have been phased out to the "random" point, I still generally have a mixed bag on me for venue changes, distraction-proofing, etc.

You might find that a mixed bag in the teaching phase instills a nice "slot machine" eagerness in the foody dog. :lol:

P.S. I forgot to say that so much of the dog's intake when learning new stuff comes from my hand, I make sure that the rewards function as reasonable meal replacements. That is, they are meat-based.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I think you need to narrow down the goal.

Very different for search work, vs house manners vs bitework (I would imagine). Things the dog already knows vs learning new things...and so on.

I save my jackpot rewards (highest intensity and fun for dog) for search rewards (because it is his job) 

For breakthroughs in ob or some new skill the reward will be more intense. If the dog gets on the ATV when I tell him to or he "waits" for me to hook up his leash at the end of a walk as he was told...he may or may not even get a "good dog".

The dog should always be left wanting more IMHO, no matter the intensity of reward.

Of course the type and intensity of reward depends on the dog's desire for it. Some dogs love verbal and physical praise...some could give a crap about it. Some dogs food motivated...others not at all. Same with toys or bites.

Clear as mud? What are you talking about specifically?


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

The porportion of reward to non-reward depends on a few things. The most significant ones that I can think of are:

Is training only reward-based or is there an element of correction included?

Has the behavior been conditioned?


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

just because the dog "knows" what is expected of him should not be the sole, determining factor for the proportion of the reward. in bitework for example, if you have a high drive dog, yes the dog knows it should out when told to, but we all know it goes against their inherent drive. so the reward should be great enough to encourage the desired behavior knowing it goes against their god given drive. 

for most police work (other than OB), the bite is usually the reward. this can lead to issues specifically when training tracking (if too many bites, the dog begins to air scent toward the end of the track). so for a difficult task like tracking, again the reward should be great, but not too great to create a hectic excitement. calm and focused is the key in tracking. 

as has been said, it's a broad question and difficult to answer. like all things in dog training, a varied approach can be beneficial. again, for the tasks that require great control and focus (tracking, article seaches), a hectic reward can be counter productive, but if the dog must work a long time before the reward, then you can step up your reward. if it's a quick find or short track, less enthusiasm might be better...


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## Eros Kopliku (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks for replying, everyone. Sorry if my question didn't make very much sense. I'm not looking to fix a specific problem or scenario, which is why the only criteria I provided were "_everything else being the same, as a general rule for an adult dog who knows what is being asked of him_".

If I take one scenario to relate to my question, two members of my club reward their adult dogs significantly different in obedience. One rewards by dropping the ball less frequently and only allows the dogs to play for a few seconds, whereas the other person rewards the dogs much more frequently and plays an animated game of tug each time. For what it may be worth, the first person is very much more successful, but there are many other reasons that account for that success so don't read too much into this scenario.

What is the negative side to rewarding generously and often? Does the dog eventually lose interest? 
What is the negative side to rewarding minimally most of the time? Would the dog eventually go flat? Or would it keep working harder hoping to earn the jackpot?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

This may be as much about the individual dog as anything else. The first person may have a dog they can require more of before rewarding it, while still getting the correctness, animation, etc they are looking for. The second person may have a dog that needs more constant rewarding to get the same picture. 

To me the amount of reward needed is whatever gets the job done. I've had dogs that would do an entire obedience routine in drive, pushing for that reward the entire time, so they only got rewarded on occasion, because the idea of the reward was enough for them. Other dogs need a reward more often, so I may do part of a heeling pattern then reward, or one motion exercise and reward. 

This also depends on where the dog is at in training, even if both dogs know the exercise one may be more proofed on it then another and not need to be rewarded as often.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

We had this very discusion last night at training. As stated above it has to do with many things. New skill vs maintainance of proofed skill, the dogs drives, and when you are going to trial. 
One member brought this point up, if you are trialing in the next few months then you need to increase the time between rewards or you may end up with a dog looking for his reward during trial or worse flipping you the finger because he's not getting his reward.


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