# Muscle soreness



## Lance Green (Jan 4, 2009)

Have any of you used Yucca Extract or Yucca Root for muscle or joint soreness instead of Rx/OTC drugs for your working dogs? I have a GSD that took a tumble chasing a tennis ball and the next day had some shoulder soreness. Wondering what would help along with rest? Thanks


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lance Green said:


> Have any of you used Yucca Extract or Yucca Root for muscle or joint soreness instead of Rx/OTC drugs for your working dogs? I have a GSD that took a tumble chasing a tennis ball and the next day had some shoulder soreness. Wondering what would help along with rest? Thanks


Yucca's an anti-inflammatory, right? Is the dog on fish oil?

What form is the soreness taking? Is the dog limping on that foreleg?


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## Lance Green (Jan 4, 2009)

Connie...Yes, for inflammation and pain, from what I've read. He takes salmon oil and Nupro Joint Formula with his raw diet. He was limping for the last 2 days but today is hardly noticeable. I'm not a fan of some of the drugs the Vets will give for pain so we are trying to find an alternative. He is 17 mo's and still very much a puppy. Thanks


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lance Green said:


> Connie...Yes, for inflammation and pain, from what I've read. He takes salmon oil and Nupro Joint Formula with his raw diet. He was limping for the last 2 days but today is hardly noticeable. I'm not a fan of some of the drugs the Vets will give for pain so we are trying to find an alternative. He is 17 mo's and still very much a puppy. Thanks


I'm not either, but I'm a huge fan of pain management. Without it, favoring to the extent that other muscles/joints are damaged can happen, not to mention quality of life and ability to train.

So if the dog ever seems to be in pain that non-RX meds are not helping, I remember that by the time a dog vocalizes about or shows pain, he is generally in a LOT more pain than we would be before we started bitching. So I do sometimes resort to NSADs or Ultram. Ultram (tramadol) is safer, IMO, but is not an anti-inflammatory. NSAIDs (aspirin included) should not be started, IMO, without screening blood work done first, and then periodic repeats if it ends up having to be an extended protocol. JMO.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lance Green said:


> Connie...Yes, for inflammation and pain, from what I've read. He takes salmon oil and Nupro Joint Formula with his raw diet. He was limping for the last 2 days but today is hardly noticeable. I'm not a fan of some of the drugs the Vets will give for pain so we are trying to find an alternative. He is 17 mo's and still very much a puppy. Thanks


I'm so glad he's better!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Anything like that gets my dog(s) a visit to a canine sports massage therapist. I was surprised how many of the no-big-deal bumps and jars resulted in long term injuries, muscle adhesions and muscle atrophy. The dog was a mess. I'm a lot more careful now.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Jeff, I would really like to know your thoughts on Yucca Extract or Yucca Root and what roll it should have with working dogs and bite work? Do miss it with RAW? Please also let us know your thoughts on the K9 massage therapist and K9 chiropractors. [/FONT]


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Jeff, I would really like to know your thoughts on Yucca Extract or Yucca Root and what roll it should have with working dogs and bite work? Do miss it with RAW? Please also let us know your thoughts on the K9 massage therapist and K9 chiropractors. [/FONT]



Chris, you are absolutely welcome to skip any threads you dislike.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> Anything like that gets my dog(s) a visit to a canine sports massage therapist. I was surprised how many of the no-big-deal bumps and jars resulted in long term injuries, muscle adhesions and muscle atrophy. The dog was a mess. I'm a lot more careful now.


I'm careful too. Dogs do not tolerate NSAIDs anywhere near as well as humans, and dogs also have the hardwired propensity not to show pain/weakness.


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## Steve White (Mar 31, 2009)

I have had best results using homeopathic Arnica Montana. Buy two preparations--oral and topical. Give three or four beads of the oral preparation every three to four hours and apply a topical (such as "The Rub" brand) three or four times a day.

It won't give immediate relief, but that's a good thing. Most Rx/OTCs are designed to mask symptoms (relieve pain and swelling in this case). That masking allows to the subject to use the affected body part more than it would if mobility were hampered by pain. That slows healing. Arnica works to reduce swelling and inflamation to speed the healing without masking pain. IMO, that's a better apporach in the long run.

Yucca supposedly has similar properties, but I've had better results with Arnica and an Ayurvedic preparation of Boswellia. Taken orally it can reduce swelling to a pretty impressive degree. However, it's an herbal preparation, so as with any herbal preparation there's more risk than with an homeopathic.

Good luck,

-Steve




Lance Green said:


> Have any of you used Yucca Extract or Yucca Root for muscle or joint soreness instead of Rx/OTC drugs for your working dogs? I have a GSD that took a tumble chasing a tennis ball and the next day had some shoulder soreness. Wondering what would help along with rest? Thanks


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I have used arnica topically on myself. 

I have not used it homeopathically, and it's too irritating to the stomach (IMO) to use at tincture strength, as well as being toxic to many individuals.

So extreme dilution would be the only safe way for it to be taken internally, and it would probably not be safe as a topical for a dog because of the dog's propensity to lick it off (again, except in the homeopathic-type dose).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Steve, is arnica the one that has a common name something like _broken-bone herb_?

The one that is often applied topically (to humans) with fractures (as well as sprains, etc.)?


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Algyval is pretty good stuff as post exercise rub.
http://www.coldspotfeeds.com/product_info.php?cPath=30_69&products_id=911
Alot of sled dog outfitters carry it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> Algyval is pretty good stuff as post exercise rub.
> http://www.coldspotfeeds.com/product_info.php?cPath=30_69&products_id=911
> Alot of sled dog outfitters carry it.


Thanks, Lynn!

Do you know what the active ingredient is?


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

more tech info here....
http://www.noatak.com/sepval/algyv02.asp?cat=Dog Care Products&scat=Sepval

Smells much better than most liniments or rubs due to the rosemary oil - good for human prangs and boo-boo's also - kind of spendy but a little goes a long way.


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## Steve White (Mar 31, 2009)

Hi Connie,

Yes, Arnica is referred to as the broken bone herb. Bone breaks and other traumatic injuries respond well it use. It sounds like you know a bit about this subject, but in case there are others on the list not familar with the difference between tinctures, compounds, suspensions, and homeopathics, I must reemphasize that I only recommend that HOMEOPATHIC Arnica preparations be taken orally, unless your healthcare professional recommends otherwise.

The principal of homeopathy is that like cures like. So, as you rightly point out Arnica can inflame. However, homeopathic preparations are based on the principal that an extremely dilute dose of the material is presented to the body to trigger it's own healing response--in this case an antiinflammatory one. This is avery differn tmodel than the allopathic (mechanistic/pharmacological) one. 

Even the FDA recognizes that homeopathic prepartions are safe. So, what could it hurt? That's the mindset that first led me to try complimentary medecine for my animals. The regular veterinary approaches too often amounted to ever increasing amounts of money spent on suppressing symptoms rather than healing.

I am not a complimentary healthcare practitioner, but my wife is. So, if i can't answer a question on this topic, I'll ask her and get back to you.

take care,

-Steve




Connie Sutherland said:


> I have used arnica topically on myself.
> 
> I have not used it homeopathically, and it's too irritating to the stomach (IMO) to use at tincture strength, as well as being toxic to many individuals.
> 
> So extreme dilution would be the only safe way for it to be taken internally, and it would probably not be safe as a topical for a dog because of the dog's propensity to lick it off (again, except in the homeopathic-type dose).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks, Steve.


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## Lance Green (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanks, Lynn & Steve...I'll give those a try. Have you ever been given or heard of "Metacam" ? The Vet wanted us to try this. Anti-inflammatory and pain killer.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lance Green said:


> Thanks, Lynn & Steve...I'll give those a try. Have you ever been given or heard of "Metacam" ? The Vet wanted us to try this. Anti-inflammatory and pain killer.


Metacam and Deramaxx are the two dog NSAIDs with the best safety records.

This does not mean to start either one without bloodwork before and then repeated periodically, and without being fully informed about what kind of gastric distress to look for, but I say good for your vet that he says Metacam rather than a couple of others.


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Metacam is what my dogs doc gave me for in the dogs first aid kit. That and Ace.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Lance Green said:


> Have any of you used Yucca Extract or Yucca Root for muscle or joint soreness instead of Rx/OTC drugs for your working dogs? I have a GSD that took a tumble chasing a tennis ball and the next day had some shoulder soreness. Wondering what would help along with rest? Thanks


Yucca is one of several herbals used for the management of pain. In fact I use it with other herbs for may back and neck. Fish oil is another useful product...one better REST! The only issues I have with herbals, it takes time to build in your system and they cost! Nice choice over aspirin and other OTC meds.


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## Nicole Mosta (Nov 13, 2008)

Relieving any inflammation is good, but I also use a topical ... horseman's dream liniment .... it works wonders as well. I've used lavender oil, ecualyptus oil (with castor oil as a base) when in a pinch....I find topical liniment works the best .... I use it for both my equine and K9 friends. :lol:


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