# DS, AB, GS, Mal, Dogo and Dobermans.... Whats the best one for me?



## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Im young, active I work and go to school. I have some dog experience(owned 3 dogs - pitbull, shepard mix and jack russell).I also reside in a city that gets cold in the winter. I have a decent size back yard (70x30). I need a dog that will protect the family/property instinctively . A dog capable of running 2-3miles a day. A dog that knows when its time to chill and when its time to play. These are the dogs I have been interested in by order and some of the things I have heard/read about the breed. Your input will be appreciated.

1. Dutch Shepherd- Love everything I have read about the dog, but they say they arnt suited for pet life.

2. Mals- Love everything I have read except the fact people call them "craked out GS on speed". They say they def arnt suited for pet life.

3. Dobermans- Great dog, but they have to many health problems and they lines are watered down. And if you happen to find a good breeder they want 2500.00.

4. German Shepherds- Same as the Doberman minus the health issues.

5. American Bulldog- Great dog all around but I kinda wanted to get out of the bully breeds. Also I dont think the AB can run 2 miles daily and they are a little big.

6. Dogo- Not a natural protector and they have a whole lot of health problems.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

William Kenley said:


> Im young, active I work and go to school. I have some dog experience(owned 3 dogs - pitbull, shepard mix and jack russell).I also reside in a city that gets cold in the winter. I have a decent size back yard (70x30). I need a dog that will protect the family/property instinctively . A dog capable of running 2-3miles a day. A dog that knows when its time to chill and when its time to play. These are the dogs I have been interested in by order and some of the things I have heard/read about the breed. Your input will be appreciated.
> 
> 1. Dutch Shepherd- Love everything I have read about the dog, but they say they arnt suited for pet life.
> 
> ...


 
Get a lab


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Jody Butler said:


> Get a lab


 :roll:


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

IMHO DS and Mal's may be too much. Seems like a decent GSD would do the trick. THey are* not* *all *watered down, remember you here 10 bad stories to ever 1 good story, bad news travels faster and further.

Other than running 2-3 miles a day would you plan on working the dog in sport? Guarding the property is a very broad request. If you want the dog to bark at strangers is one thing, if you want the dog to bite an intruder thats another, both could be considered protecting the property.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jody Butler said:


> Get a lab





William Kenley said:


> :roll:


Why not entertain this idea? Sounds like a good breed for what you want to do.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

My shothair lab/chow mix would have fit your needs perfectly. Big, dark, scary looking, calm and undemanding, standing her ground growling and barking like she meant it. Plus the neurotic chow trait of knowing where everything should be, and noticing anything out of place. Running 2-3 miles a day is easy, any dog in decent physical condition should be able to do that.


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Carol Boche said:


> Why not entertain this idea? Sounds like a good breed for what you want to do.


I dont like labs for some odd reason!


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Edward Egan said:


> IMHO DS and Mal's may be too much. Seems like a decent GSD would do the trick. THey are* not* *all *watered down, remember you here 10 bad stories to ever 1 good story, bad news travels faster and further.
> 
> Other than running 2-3 miles a day would you plan on working the dog in sport? Guarding the property is a very broad request. If you want the dog to bark at strangers is one thing, if you want the dog to bite an intruder thats another, both could be considered protecting the property.


Attack intruders..... Thats my def of defending property.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> Im young, active I work and go to school. I have some dog experience(owned 3 dogs - pitbull, shepard mix and jack russell).I also reside in a city that gets cold in the winter. I have a decent size back yard (70x30). I need a dog that will protect the family/property instinctively . A dog capable of running 2-3miles a day. A dog that knows when its time to chill and when its time to play. These are the dogs I have been interested in by order and some of the things I have heard/read about the breed. Your input will be appreciated.
> 
> 1. Dutch Shepherd- Love everything I have read about the dog, but they say they arnt suited for pet life.
> 
> ...


 
Ha. Watered down GSD lines...not round these parts. The lab idea isn't a bad one...they'll do what you're looking for. Hell, my mini schnauzer would too.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> I dont like labs for some odd reason!


Me either, well, if they are gun dogs and do well I like them. LOL 

I don't think a working line GSD would be a bad choice. There are some good ones, and there are also breeders who don't charge an arm or a leg for them. 

If you talk with a good breeder, they will work with you and if they have a pup that isn't going to "make the grade" for a working home, they will sometimes come down in price as well.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

either a lab or GSD there about equal ( Just kidding ):lol:, stay away from the mali & DS though for sure, all kidding aside a lab or a GSD would probally fit the M.O.;-)


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> Attack intruders..... Thats my def of defending property.


Have you looked at the bite laws in your area? Are you willing to go to court over some kid jumping in your yard after a ball? Could you live with yourself knowing your dog mauled a child? Are you willing to attend training on a regular basis?

Seems you, like many others, haven't really thought this through.:roll:


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Edward Egan said:


> Have you looked at the bite laws in your area? Are you willing to go to court over some kid jumping in your yard after a ball? Could you live with yourself knowing your dog mauled a child? Are you willing to attend training on a regular basis?
> 
> Seems you, like many others, haven't really thought this through.:roll:


For real. Get a goldfish and a home security alarm.


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Edward Egan said:


> Have you looked at the bite laws in your area? Are you willing to go to court over some kid jumping in your yard after a ball? Could you live with yourself knowing your dog mauled a child? Are you willing to attend training on a regular basis?
> 
> Seems you, like many others, haven't really thought this through.:roll:


 I have a 7ft fence and" beware of dog" signs all around the house. If a kid hears a dog barking , ignores the signs and jumps a 7ft fence he wanted to be bit!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)




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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> I have a 7ft fence and" beware of dog" signs all around the house. If a kid hears a dog barking , ignores the signs and jumps a 7ft fence he wanted to be bit!


A 7 ft fence...do you have an Elk farm or something ??


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> I have a 7ft fence and" beware of dog" signs all around the house. If a kid hears a dog barking , ignores the signs and jumps a 7ft fence he wanted to be bit!


With that attitude, you may as well sign off for the last time.](*,)


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> I have a 7ft fence and" beware of dog" signs all around the house. If a kid hears a dog barking , ignores the signs and jumps a 7ft fence he wanted to be bit!


Check the laws in your area as well as your state. Some states, cities and towns have laws to where if you have "Beware of Dog" signs posted, you are basically admitting your dog will bite and you are therefore, liable for any damages. 

My state, it is better not to have the signs up, no matter that I am out in the country. 

I didn't see in your original post that you said anything about a dog that will attack intruders.....too lazy to go back and read it. 

BUT, I will say, a good dog that will bark when someone is on your property is usually a great deterrent and no "bite" training is necassary.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Carol Boche said:


> BUT, I will say, a good dog that will bark when someone is on your property is usually a great deterrent and no "bite" training is necassary.


 
Exactly. Aussies are good watchdogs...


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

A kid climbing a 7ft wooden fence with privacy guards, signs and a dog in the yard to retrieve a ball is not even feasible. No child is that dumb..... I guess you can say Im willing to bet my house on it. Also you have dudes on here talking about get a lab, goldfish and alarm. If you dont have any positive input, move along.


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## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> For real. Get a goldfish and a home security alarm.


Geez, Ashley...a little harsh considering a goldfish running 2-3 miles would be a tough feat, no? Are we always so flippant on newbies when they come for advice, or do we expect everyone to be born wearing medals on a podium as a national champion?


Give people a break!

Dude, as a first dog, a Mali would likely be a bit much for you...and a dutchies isn't far behind.

From your list, it sounds like the versatility you are looking for, along with the fact you're not looking for anything extreme by your description, I would get a Shepherd. Not a biased statement because we own and breed them, but it does sound like a fit for what you're looking for.

Stay away from the others on your list...not sure you'd be happy with them.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> Attack intruders..... Thats my def of defending property.


Oh....yeah...here it is...

Not a good idea to look at it this way at all. Not trying to be snide at all, but this really is a terrible definition. 
I would feel awful if my dogs attacked anyone (especially a child). (if someone was attacking me and my dogs bit them, that is one thing, but I would never want them attacking someone), besides, if someone is out prowling around my place or stealing anything, they are going to meet the business end of my rifle. Period. 

When people come here and my dogs are out, they don't get out of their vehicles unless they know them.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Wanting a dog that will bite "intruders" is way different than wanting a dog for a sport home or a pet. There's a lot of liability as someone else mentioned, and honestly, if you want your house protected...buy a gun or alarm system.

I've never won shit with my dog, that's beside the point. But again, whether you have signs up and a 10 ft fence with razor wire across the top, there's a chance a small kid could get into your yard. My 4 year old can climb my 6 ft privacy fence no problem. He also can't read - so it's a lot to think about if you want a "junkyard" style dog in your yard or not.

A goldfish could certainly run 2-3 miles. All you need is a jar with a lid


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> A kid climbing a 7ft wooden fence with privacy guards, signs and a dog in the yard to retrieve a ball is not even feasible. No child is that dumb..... I guess you can say Im willing to bet my house on it. Also you have dudes on here talking about get a lab, goldfish and alarm. If you dont have any positive input, move along.


 
Believe it or not, a little girl did almost exactly that on my parents property years back...except it was a 6' fence...and she walked several hundered yards onto their land to, apparently, get her ball, or toy, or whatever the hell she was looking for. One of the bc's tagged her...don't think it even broke the skin. Guess who was at fault???


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Geez, Ashley...a little harsh considering a goldfish running 2-3 miles would be a tough feat, no? Are we always so flippant on newbies when they come for advice, or do we expect everyone to be born wearing medals on a podium as a national champion?
> 
> 
> Give people a break!
> ...


Ok why would you recommend a GS over a doberman? Just asking.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> Ok why would you recommend a GS over a doberman? Just asking.


 
Dobes don't do very well in the cold


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Brian McQuain said:


> Believe it or not, a little girl did almost exactly that on my parents property years back...except it was a 6' fence...and she walked several hundered yards onto their land to, apparently, get her ball, or toy, or whatever the hell she was looking for. One of the bc's tagged her...don't think it even broke the skin. Guess who was at fault???


Im 6'8 with a 38' vert it would be a real hassle for me to climb my fence, but I understand were you guys are coming from.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> Im 6'8 with a 38' vert it would be a real hassle for me to climb my fence, but I understand were you guys are coming from.


 
Holy crap.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

What's a 38 ft vert ??


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

No joke, I'm 5'2" but I can easily hop over my fence and have tons of times. I lock my keys in the house a lot and hop my fence and crawl through my dog door.

That's why I worry about little kids, I'm barely bigger than most the 5th graders at my oldest sons school - so if I can get over it, so can they, and kids are a lot more agile than I am. 

An intimidating dog is one thing. My ex has hopped over my fence before to let himself in the house when I wasn't home (it was ok by me, he called) but didn't make it far beyond the fence because he was met by my dog. The idea that she might bite him was enough for him to wait for me to get home rather than try his luck making it in the house.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> Im 6'8 with a 38' vert it would be a real hassle for me to climb my fence, but I understand were you guys are coming from.


So basically, you are a big guy (that alone is a deterrent), with a big fence, that wants a big, scary dog that attacks people (kids or not)? #-o


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Carol Boche said:


> So basically, you are a big guy (that alone is a deterrent), with a big fence, that wants a big, scary dog that attacks people (kids or not)? #-o


That owns a lot of guns!


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> That owns a lot of guns!


 
Get a little terrier then...most alert to anything, then you do the rest


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> That owns a lot of guns!


That has a very high fence..and a 38' vert and is scared of kids. 

"What's the matter, kid? Don't ya like clowns?" - Captain Spaulding​


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> That owns a lot of guns!


Yeah....I own a lot of guns too. And know how to use them.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> I have a 7ft fence and" beware of dog" signs all around the house. If a kid hears a dog barking , ignores the signs and jumps a 7ft fence he wanted to be bit!


Wow, how ignorant! People like you should not have a dog because people like you only make more trouble for BSL. ](*,)

I hope you are not serious about it though.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

My GF has a mini longhair Daschie that she could sell you.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> My GF has a mini longhair Daschie that she could sell you.


 
Is that an "executive" mini?! LMAO


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

http://www.lab-rescue.com/


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

I just saw on the evening news today a woman who had 3 pit bulls and had signs all over the place "Beware of Dog" very visible....guess what a guy putting Chinese Food menus on people's houses and all doesn 't speak or read English and he entered the property and got bit good, had to have surgery to attempt to reattach his ear....all 3 dogs were taken by AC, one is dead already.....I guarantee the other 2 will be PTS. You got guns and a tall fence, why do you want an attack dog?????? All you need is an alarm system or a little terrier to alert you to an intruder. You want something that looks big and bad, get a Chocolate Lab or a Chesapeake Bay Retriever.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> or a Chesapeake Bay Retriever.


No, no....he doesn't need one of these......:-D (seriously)


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

William-

First thing I would suggest is try to get out and meet the breeds you are interested in. There can be hype and misinformation in what you read and what some breeders/owners may tell you. 

I have owned and trained Malinois, Dutch Shepherds, German Shepherds, American Bulldogs, and 1 Doberman, can’t help you with the Dogos. 

Dutch Shepherds and Malinois can be calm and make good house dogs, that depends on the lines you choose and the type of dogs the breeder wants to live with. I have found Mals/DS with NVBK and/or KNPV lines to be most laid back and stable. Malinois I have had better luck in finding strong, stable dogs then the Dutch Shepherds so far. 

I have found most of the working GSDs I have owned to be at least as rowdy and active as most of the Mals I have had, some even more so. Recently I am seeing more working line GSDs with weak nerves which often goes hand and hand with “hyper” dogs, which I don’t like at all. I prefer dogs that stay calm off the field.
High energy and activity does not equal drive or work ability, 2 seperate things. In fact I have found my best working dogs usually are the most relaxed ones, as with everything dog related, there are always exceptions to the rules.
Both my Bulldogs and my Doberman lived outside all year long and I am in Canada. Dogs do fine if you have the proper set ups, good dog house and lots of dry straw, and a high fat food. I feed a Canadian made food called Inukshuk which is 32% fat and used for sled dogs and all the dogs keep their weight on even on the coldest days with no extra supplementing. I have fed many types of food in the past 15 years and this is by far the best for what I need.

Good luck with your research!


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

> I feed a Canadian made food called Inukshuk which is 32% fat and used for sled dogs and all the dogs keep their weight on even on the coldest days with no extra supplementing. I have fed many types of food in the past 15 years and this is by far the best for what I need.


THAT's the name of the stuff my friend feeds her dogos up in Canada! Was wondering what the name was. Back on topic...


I have an AB and dogos, they are hunting dogs...my AB will sleep through someone coming in the house, and my dogos are high maintenance d/t the fact they have very high prey drives and want to kill most things with 4 legs. If you are talking about running 2-3 miles a day with them off leash, a dogo most definately ain't for you, cause off leash they will follow their nose and take off and the first interesting scent, and it may be to go kill someone's dog or cat. Also, as far as BITING an intruder, you are looking to set yourself up for a lawsuit for one, and for two, unless you specifically TRAIN a dog to bite an intruder, IMHO, you can't guarantee ANY BREED of dog will bite without training and testing it. JMHO.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> THAT's the name of the stuff my friend feeds her dogos up in Canada! Was wondering what the name was. Back on topic...
> 
> 
> I have an AB and dogos, they are hunting dogs...my AB will sleep through someone coming in the house, and my dogos are high maintenance d/t the fact they have very high prey drives and want to kill most things with 4 legs. If you are talking about running 2-3 miles a day with them off leash, a dogo most definately ain't for you, cause off leash they will follow their nose and take off and the first interesting scent, and it may be to go kill someone's dog or cat. Also, as far as BITING an intruder, you are looking to set yourself up for a lawsuit for one, and for two, unless you specifically TRAIN a dog to bite an intruder, IMHO, you can't guarantee ANY BREED of dog will bite without training and testing it. JMHO.


I have a baton with me for these large dogs and have only had to use it once, I never knew anything outside of a sleddog could run and shit at the same time.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I have a baton with me for these large dogs and have only had to use it once, I never knew anything outside of a sleddog could run and shit at the same time.


Oh trust me, I have no problem agreeing with ya that most of dogos out there today are big p*ssies and will sh*t themselves if you went after them because of the way they are breeding them now a days( for ribbons INSTEAD of function). Look at most of the websites of dogo breeders, they all have cutsey puppy and adult pictures instead of them hunting or working....SAD


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## James Idi (Apr 19, 2009)

Another option, besides the gold fish and the lab, may be one of the live stock guardian breeds. They are robust dogs that were bred specifically for protecting property, and all the critters that live on said property.


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## james m white (May 8, 2010)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> Oh trust me, I have no problem agreeing with ya that most of dogos out there today are big p*ssies and will sh*t themselves if you went after them because of the way they are breeding them now a days( for ribbons INSTEAD of function). Look at most of the websites of dogo breeders, they all have cutsey puppy and adult pictures instead of them hunting or working....SAD


 ya when i ws looking for my dog crusoe i woud tell people i was looking to possibly do ppd work or alittle hunting and they shut the doors quik.. hard to find a breeder who even supports working a dogo much less one that does it.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

Mali's dont really have an off switch. I hate my dog when we are not working and love him when we are...LOL
My GSD will light up in the yard to anything and can relax inside and not be a nuisance.
Dobes, someone mentioned the cold, plus working lines are more rare than the other breeds
dutchies like malies alot with the drive

if your not set of the running part i would say rottie, they have a lot of territorial defense, even untrained. much more likely to light up at home and mean it. 


the negative comments are actually for your best interest. You are going to loose if your dog bites someone, plain and simple, regardless of the circumstances. I know its not right but it is true.
the only thing a big scary bark wont work on is a gun, and a gun toting bad guy isnt going to care about a dog at all


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Mike Lauer said:


> Mali's dont really have an off switch. I hate my dog when we are not working and love him when we are...LOL
> My GSD will light up in the yard to anything and can relax inside and not be a nuisance.
> Dobes, someone mentioned the cold, plus working lines are more rare than the other breeds
> dutchies like malies alot with the drive
> ...


Thanks alot...... so basically my best bet is to get a GSD or Rott and stay away from the rott. Also dont believe the hype. My fafthers pit-bull bit a kids foot. They went to court and they dissmissed the case because the kid was kicking at the dog through the fence.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

William Kenley said:


> Thanks alot...... so basically my best bet is to get a GSD or Rott and stay away from the rott. Also dont believe the hype. My fafthers pit-bull bit a kids foot. They went to court and they dissmissed the case because the kid was kicking at the dog through the fence.


William, are you a college student, did you post an intro?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

William, do you have a set of real dapper running shoes ? Jordan 8's ??


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> William, do you have a set of real dapper running shoes ? Jordan 8's ??


I work LE and go to school full time! I have over a 100 pair of shoes. I have 3 color ways in the jordan 8's white/ red, black/ red and black/ grey.........:?: What does any of this have to do with any thing?


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> I work LE and go to school full time! I have over a 100 pair of shoes. I have 3 color ways in the jordan 8's white/ red, black/ red and black/ grey.........:?: What does any of this have to do with any thing?


You're LE???


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Get a Lab...


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> I work LE and go to school full time! I have over a 100 pair of shoes. I have 3 color ways in the jordan 8's white/ red, black/ red and black/ grey.........:?: What does any of this have to do with any thing?


Are you female? What man owns that many pairs of shoes?!?!

Seriously, I'm female, and own like 4 pairs total...including snowboots and combat boots.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Are you female? What man owns that many pairs of shoes?!?!
> 
> Seriously, I'm female, and own like 4 pairs total...including snowboots and combat boots.


Ashley,

Maybe William is the long lost son of Imelda Marcos?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Ashley,
> 
> Maybe William is the long lost son of Imelda Marcos?


Then so was one of the tattoo artists that worked in my studio. This isn't something I understand :-?. 

William, I really don't have anything constructive to add to this thread. My experience with most of the breeds you listed amounts to nothing. This much I do know though, getting a dog with the expectation of family protection generally isn't a good idea. Getting a dog for a visual or other sensory type of deterrent I can understand but beyond that I'd put my money in an alarm system and/or firearm or other object that could offer protection against someone with bad intentions.


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Are you female? What man owns that many pairs of shoes?!?!
> 
> Seriously, I'm female, and own like 4 pairs total...including snowboots and combat boots.


Are you a man? What female only owns 4 pair of shoes? If I can afford to pay my bills on time it shouldnt matter if I have 600 pair of shoes.


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Carol Boche said:


> You're LE???


Yep


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> Are you a man? What female only owns 4 pair of shoes? If I can afford to pay my bills on time it shouldnt matter if I have 600 pair of shoes.


Nope, not a man, my boobs are too big for that.  I don't need 100 pairs of shoes to make me rich, I only have 2 feet ya know. So take it easy, Nancy.


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Nope, not a man, my boobs are too big for that.  I don't need 100 pairs of shoes to make me rich, I only have 2 feet ya know. So take it easy, Nancy.


Far from rich sweetheart........... Bank of America donsnt wont follow you to the grave.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> Far from rich sweetheart...........


Wow....how condescending is that? I think a goldfish would be your best bet. And I am really happy that with ALL the LE I know, work with and beside, none have the outlook on dogs and people like you do.


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## Kristen Roberts (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm female and own 2 pairs of shoes 

I dont' have anything contructive to say other than I agree with other posters. You are looking for a liability if you want one to attack intruders. You are better off taking care of that yourself and just have a dog as a visual deterent. I have experience with Malinois, Dutch Shepherds, and GSD. But out of all the breeds a GSD might be your best bet considering what you are looking for (other than a Lab  A Lab too will bark at intruders). Dutch Shepherds do tend to be calmer than Malinois but they still want "something to do."


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Kristen Roberts said:


> I'm female and own 2 pairs of shoes
> 
> I dont' have anything contructive to say other than I agree with other posters. You are looking for a liability if you want one to attack intruders. You are better off taking care of that yourself and just have a dog as a visual deterent. I have experience with Malinois, Dutch Shepherds, and GSD. But out of all the breeds a GSD might be your best bet considering what you are looking for (other than a Lab  A Lab too will bark at intruders). _*Dutch Shepherds do tend to be calmer than Malinois*_ but they still want "something to do."


Maybe your particular experiences, however I believe this is a myth! What happens when they are from the same litter? ](*,)

*GET A LAB!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Kristen Roberts (Sep 28, 2010)

Jody Butler said:


> Maybe your particular experiences, however I believe this is a myth! What happens when they are from the same litter? ](*,)


Got me on that one 

That was just "generally speaking" too. I've talked to people who own KNPV line DS and some of them say they are very laid back couch potatoes in the house. But we all know they are individuals and either way he should stay away from Malinois or DS!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> Far from rich sweetheart........... Bank of America donsnt wont follow you to the grave.



THe more I think about it, I'm thinking a pretty fantail oranda is just about your speed, buy a treadmill and it can go on all your runs too. Maybe you should have saved your money on the 100 pairs of shoes and bought yourself a sense of humor instead.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

William Kenley said:


> I work LE and go to school full time! I have over a 100 pair of shoes. I have 3 color ways in the jordan 8's white/ red, black/ red and black/ grey.........:?: What does any of this have to do with any thing?


 
Master William....

You kind of reminded me of another character on the board, the shoes can be seen on this link here...

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f30/american-bullies-14681/

Of course, if they aren't yours I do apologise.


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Carol Boche said:


> Wow....how condescending is that? I think a goldfish would be your best bet. And I am really happy that with ALL the LE I know, work with and beside, none have the outlook on dogs and people like you do.


You must not work with a lot of individuals in LE, because some of there views on people and dogs are a lot worse then mine. Im going to leave it at that. I never harmed anyone or flexed my authority. All I want is my property/ family protected while Im gone and a good companion. Yall are acting like I want a sandlot killing machine or something. Then to add fuel to the fire you got a lot of people commenting on something they know nothing about(the law).


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Most cops aren't lawyers either - realize you can lose a case even if it looks in your favor. Your dog bit someone hopping your fence.
Now in this state and Arizona, someone hopping your fence is merely trespassing. Which does not constitute the use of force to remove them - I.e. you can't shoot them or sick your dog on them for just trespassing, they have to be a threat to your life or hte life of someone else. Arizona is a gun toting state just like Colorado, and we have the right to protect ourselves more than most other states do. 

So yeah, if someone hops your fence but isn't armed or threatening you or your family, and your dog tears into him. Enjoy jail time, Bubba likes you LE wanna-be's.


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Are you female? What man owns that many pairs of shoes?!?!


:-o 

Hi my names Jeremy, I'm a shoe whore 
I have about 20 pairs


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Most cops aren't lawyers either - realize you can lose a case even if it looks in your favor. Your dog bit someone hopping your fence.
> Now in this state and Arizona, someone hopping your fence is merely trespassing. Which does not constitute the use of force to remove them - I.e. you can't shoot them or sick your dog on them for just trespassing, they have to be a threat to your life or hte life of someone else. Arizona is a gun toting state just like Colorado, and we have the right to protect ourselves more than most other states do.
> 
> So yeah, if someone hops your fence but isn't armed or threatening you or your family, and your dog tears into him. Enjoy jail time, Bubba likes you LE wanna-be's.


I study the law sweetheart; I cant speak for any other officer. So let men take this time to shut some of you ignorant, fake wanna be lawyers up.


The person who the dog bit was a trespasser. The law states that if any person was on the property of another without permission, express or implied, then such a person is a trespasser. If a dog bites a trespasser, the owner is not held liable under the strict liability rule.
If the dog bites the vet who is treating him, the owner is not held liable for the dog bite.
If a dog bites someone who provoked the dog, then the owner may not be held liable for the dog bite. In many cases where a dog owner has told people to stay away from his dog, but the person has still advanced towards the dog and got bitten, the dog owner is not usually held responsible because it is deemed that the victim unnecessarily provoked the dog in spite of being told not to.
If a dog has bitten someone while helping the police or during a military operation, the owner will not be held responsible.
Stick to what you know people. I dont know much about dogs, but I know the law.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

William Kenley said:


> I study the law sweetheart; I cant speak for any other officer. So let men take this time to shut some of you ignorant, fake wanna be lawyers up.
> 
> 
> The person who the dog bit was a trespasser. The law states that if any person was on the property of another without permission, express or implied, then such a person is a trespasser. If a dog bites a trespasser, the owner is not held liable under the strict liability rule.
> ...


 
Eh hemm....we're not all in America you know....laws do differ! Besides, you have experience of a gsd, jack russell and a pit bull and yet you are still at a loss as to what may make a good ppd and companion....it may well have something to do with personality, just a thought!


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## Josh Smith (Jan 14, 2009)

I vote for a golden retriever.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> I study the law sweetheart; I cant speak for any other officer. So let men take this time to shut some of you ignorant, fake wanna be lawyers up.
> 
> 
> The person who the dog bit was a trespasser. The law states that if any person was on the property of another without permission, express or implied, then such a person is a trespasser. If a dog bites a trespasser, the owner is not held liable under the strict liability rule.
> ...


First off, I ain't your sweetheart. 

I'm not an ignorant, fake, wanna-be lawyer either. Different states are well, different. So what state laws are those? I have a copy of ARS on my desk here and I can give you the actual statute. 
Wonder how I found that? It's nice to have an actual criminal attorney for a relative.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

LOL,I can tell ya that those arent the laws here in NYS!

PS, I will definately add in a dogo sure ain't for you!! Dogos are more of a *******'s dog and you sho aint no huntin' *******!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> LOL,I can tell ya that those arent the laws here in NYS!


Nope! Hell if you shoot someone in NYS you better apologize and give them your big screen TV, even help load it up and anything else valuable so they don't sue you and win...God I hated living there.


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## Wawashkashi Tashi (Aug 25, 2009)

Kristen Roberts said:


> Got me on that one
> 
> That was just "generally speaking" too. I've talked to people who own KNPV line DS and some of them say they are very laid back couch potatoes in the house. But we all know they are individuals and either way he should stay away from Malinois or DS!


Our DS is *very* chill in the house.. but I would recommend a GOOD Bouvier over him if someone is looking for a herder-type dog w/ natural suspicion/territoriality/protective instincts & solid nerve. Ours are particularly good with children -even when the neighbor's dumb kids climbed over our 6' privacy fence into our yard w/ 2 Bouvs -both of whom had had live bites, they came out unscathed. Just because dogs may be civil doesn't automatically mean they can't tell children from adults. -I'll also willingly admit that _most_ Bouvs nowadays won't fit the bill, as few are being bred for (IMO) proper temperament. 
But then again, I'm more of a "molosser person"! :razz:


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> First off, I ain't your sweetheart.
> 
> I'm not an ignorant, fake, wanna-be lawyer either. Different states are well, different. So what state laws are those? I have a copy of ARS on my desk here and I can give you the actual statute.
> Wonder how I found that? It's nice to have an actual criminal attorney for a relative.


Im not worried about your state, because I dont live in your state. I know the laws for my city and thats all that matters. I know some one that got sued because their pitbull attacked a child through a fence. The case was dissmissed because the little boy was provoking the dog by kicking at him. Everybody dosnt live in a " for the plantiff" city!


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> Ok why would you recommend a GS over a doberman? Just asking.


Because there are about 15,000 German Shepherd pups, all out of
Schutzhund titled parents registered in Germany, and most of the
best of the German Shepherds come from elsewhere, the Check
republic, Belgium etc. There are literally thousands of high quality
German Shepherds born every year. Yes, all of the American Lines
are crap, and the SV show lines are getting to be just as bad.

But until they allow the Malinois to take their place, which will happen
if they do not get out from under the thumb of the SV, the GSD is still
the best working police style dog in the world.

There are about 500 Doberman pups produced in Germany each year,
the vast majority out of show lines and not out of two titled parents.
Health problems are at a point where even those who love this breed
the most know that they must outcross to other breeds, probably
Rotties and Beaucerons, in order to have breeding stock to go on.

It is sad, but it is the truth.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

The Check Republic [-X


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> The Check Republic [-X


 Got me on that one, never can get it right.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

William Kenley said:


> Im not worried about your state, because I dont live in your state. I know the laws for my city and thats all that matters. I know some one that got sued because their pitbull attacked a child through a fence. The case was dissmissed because the little boy was provoking the dog by kicking at him. Everybody dosnt live in a " for the plantiff" city!


Still waiting for you to post the actual statute...nice deflection. 

I won't hold my breath.


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

William Kenley said:


> Im not worried about your state, because I dont live in your state. I know the laws for my city and thats all that matters. I know some one that got sued because their pitbull attacked a child through a fence. The case was dissmissed because the little boy was provoking the dog by kicking at him. Everybody dosnt live in a " for the plantiff" city!


Not if you want to be a lawyer, but semantics. And having a bullet with teeth than you don't plan to do jack with is a liability regardless of where you live. It's also exceptionally unfair to a dog bred to do something other than menace neighborhood children. 

For a Doberman you're also looking and tons of health issues. I think you'd also be hard-pressed to find a working Doberman breeder who would sell you a dog who is functionally a yard dog. 

At least with the GSDs the sheer number of relatively solid dogs are in your favor.


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Charlotte Hince said:


> Not if you want to be a lawyer, but semantics. And having a bullet with teeth than you don't plan to do jack with is a liability regardless of where you live. It's also exceptionally unfair to a dog bred to do something other than menace neighborhood children.
> 
> For a Doberman you're also looking and tons of health issues. I think you'd also be hard-pressed to find a working Doberman breeder who would sell you a dog who is functionally a yard dog.
> 
> At least with the GSDs the sheer number of relatively solid dogs are in your favor.


Anyways I get that from doberman breeders. If your not going to work the dog they honestly dont want to sell them to you, but I totally understand the reason behind it. Im thinking about a GS, Im now trying to locate a good breeder. I pan on doing some advanced OT and maybe some bite work. I really hate GS coats but I gotta go with the dog that fits my lifestyle best, because overall I want to be happy and I want the dog to be happy. Also Im tired of yall acting like I want a killer. All I want is a dog thats going to protect whats his/mine. All of my dogs were social and nice dogs(except my Jack Russell). I plan to keep that trend going. Believe me I like my shoe collection, cloths collection, house, and car collection! Also Miss Campbell Im done with you I already won our debate and there is nothing else to say to you!


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> Im thinking about a GS, Im now trying to locate a good breeder. I pan on doing some advanced OT and maybe some bite work.Also Miss Campbell Im done with you I already won our debate and there is nothing else to say to you!


 Oh you think you are winning the debate? Well, there are German shepherd breeders who come in here and read what you said. Do you think they are going to sell you a German shepherd puppy? Eh... Eh...

I don't think you should be getting a dog because the way you posted your posts . The stupidity of letting a child getting bit will FLAME the Breed Specific Law coming into your state and city. Seriously, do you think someone with that attitude should be having a dog? It reminds me of someone who grew up with a ghetto mentality and walk down with a chained pit bull. 

http://www.mwl-law.com/CM/Resources/Dog-Bite-Laws-In-All-50-States-2010-07-27.pdf


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

William Kenley said:


> I have a 7ft fence and" beware of dog" signs all around the house. If a kid hears a dog barking , ignores the signs and jumps a 7ft fence he wanted to be bit!





William Kenley said:


> A kid climbing a 7ft wooden fence with privacy guards, signs and a dog in the yard to retrieve a ball is not even feasible. No child is that dumb..... I guess you can say Im willing to bet my house on it. Also you have dudes on here talking about get a lab, goldfish and alarm. If you dont have any positive input, move along.





Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Geez, Ashley...a little harsh considering a goldfish running 2-3 miles would be a tough feat, no? Are we always so flippant on newbies when they come for advice, or do we expect everyone to be born wearing medals on a podium as a national champion?
> 
> 
> Give people a break!
> ...





William Kenley said:


> Ok why would you recommend a GS over a doberman? Just asking.





William Kenley said:


> Im 6'8 with a 38' vert it would be a real hassle for me to climb my fence, but I understand were you guys are coming from.





William Kenley said:


> That owns a lot of guns!





William Kenley said:


> Thanks alot...... so basically my best bet is to get a GSD or Rott and stay away from the rott. Also dont believe the hype. My fafthers pit-bull bit a kids foot. They went to court and they dissmissed the case because the kid was kicking at the dog through the fence.


Hahahahaha William, William, William. So naive William. Did you not know this forum isn't made for asking real questions? It's for the working dog's elite to get together & make novices feel stupid & argue with each other about what there doing wrong. These people are the best of the best in the dog world.
You can learn soooooo much from Carol, Jeff & the others. Just don't ask anything & wait for them to speak. It's a common mistake that has happened to many new people. Just don't let it happen again :neutral:


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Lindsay Janes said:


> Oh you think you are winning the debate? Well, there are German shepherd breeders who come in here and read what you said. Do you think they are going to sell you a German shepherd puppy? Eh... Eh...
> 
> I don't think you should be getting a dog because the way you posted your posts . The stupidity of letting a child getting bit will FLAME the Breed Specific Law coming into your state and city. Seriously, do you think someone with that attitude should be having a dog? It reminds me of someone who grew up with a ghetto mentality and walk down with a chained pit bull.
> 
> http://www.mwl-law.com/CM/Resources/Dog-Bite-Laws-In-All-50-States-2010-07-27.pdf


Haha, yeah he's winning a debate - I didn't know there was a competition. Just showed me you can't back up what you said with any proof - so as far as I'm concerned it's bullshit.

Don't worry, when your big mouth writes checks your ass can't cash and no decent breeder wants to sell to you, you can always check the newspaper. Plenty of people there don't care where their dogs go and if they end up the junk-yard variety.



> Hahahahaha William, William, William. So naive William. Did you not know this forum isn't made for asking real questions? It's for the working dog's elite to get together & make novices feel stupid & argue with each other about what there doing wrong. These people are the best of the best in the dog world.
> You can learn soooooo much from Carol, Jeff & the others. Just don't ask anything & wait for them to speak. It's a common mistake that has happened to many new people. Just don't let it happen again


Oh come on now! Hey I'm about as novice as it gets but I have something our OP doesn't. Common sense. That gives me the upper hand, well that and I don't call strangers "sweetheart".


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Haha, yeah he's winning a debate - I didn't know there was a competition. Just showed me you can't back up what you said with any proof - so as far as I'm concerned it's bullshit.
> 
> Don't worry, when your big mouth writes checks your ass can't cash and no decent breeder wants to sell to you, you can always check the newspaper. Plenty of people there don't care where their dogs go and if they end up the junk-yard variety.
> 
> ...


I prefer sugartits :mrgreen:


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## William Kenley (Oct 13, 2010)

Lindsay Janes said:


> Oh you think you are winning the debate? Well, there are German shepherd breeders who come in here and read what you said. Do you think they are going to sell you a German shepherd puppy? Eh... Eh...
> 
> I don't think you should be getting a dog because the way you posted your posts . The stupidity of letting a child getting bit will FLAME the Breed Specific Law coming into your state and city. Seriously, do you think someone with that attitude should be having a dog? It reminds me of someone who grew up with a ghetto mentality and walk down with a chained pit bull.
> 
> http://www.mwl-law.com/CM/Resources/Dog-Bite-Laws-In-All-50-States-2010-07-27.pdf


I swear you idoits dont read post you react and feed off of other peoples replys. I know the basics about dogs, dog training and dog care. If I wanted a evil back yard dog I would buy a pitbull for 200 dollars and not socialize it with anything or anybody.


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## Tiffany Damm (Jun 1, 2010)

William Kenley said:


> I swear you idoits dont read post you react and feed off of other peoples replys. I know the basics about dogs, dog training and dog care. If I wanted a evil back yard dog I would buy a pitbull for 200 dollars and not socialize it with anything or anybody.


 

ON another thread someone asked about Corsos have you looked at those? see the ppd city thread.
for a pet me personally when I was looking : DS and Mali were quickly disreguarded. We were pretty much GSD or Corso. Love both breeds. Actually had more personal expirience with GSD but Corso fit us better


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

William Kenley said:


> I swear you idoits dont read post you react and feed off of other peoples replys. I know the basics about dogs, dog training and dog care. If I wanted a evil back yard dog I would buy a pitbull for 200 dollars and not socialize it with anything or anybody.


OMG i hope all respectable pitbull breaders see this & they dont sell a puppy to you. Why would you say you would fight pitbulls in your back yard? thats just sick & twisted. Someone needs to call the show animal cops on you. Your exactly the problem with this world. You probably created parvo in your basement didn't you. evil man 

Oh wow. this is actually fun :twisted:


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

jeremy anderson said:


> You probably created parvo in your basement didn't you. evil man
> 
> Oh wow. this is actually fun :twisted:


LMAO! 

Cool, insulting us all as "idiots" now. What's next? Want to tell us how you picked up the most badass PPD dog from the pound?

I KNOW! Tonights a full moon, maybe you can go catch yourself a werewolf, is that bad ass enough for you? Don't forget the silver bullets. \\/


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

William Kenley said:


> I swear you idoits dont read post you react and feed off of other peoples replys. I know the basics about dogs, dog training and dog care. If I wanted a evil back yard dog I would buy a pitbull for 200 dollars and not socialize it with anything or anybody.


 

Aren't you getting emotional?


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## Jan Wensink (Sep 17, 2010)

Are there any bouviers to be found in the US? They are great for the family but very protective and look impressive. In the past there were a lot of them in KNPV but they became too popular as pets in the 80's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1rauhitnTE


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jan Wensink said:


> Are there any bouviers to be found in the US? They are great for the family but very protective and look impressive. In the past there were a lot of them in KNPV but they became too popular as pets in the 80's.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1rauhitnTE



HI Jan,

Butch Henderson is competing with one at the IPO II level this weekend at the DVG Nationals. He's also competing with a GSD
at the IPO III level. Butch won the DVG Nats with a Bouvier a few years ago.


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