# Tracking Progression



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

In training Wednesday night I decided to push his abilities and tried something new. The scenario was situated in a large parking lot and the winds were 5-10 mph. I had the decoy walk the track across the parking lot, then make a left turn. On the left leg he walked about 40 yards then back tracked on the left leg and continued to the right of the root track...in essence the track ended up being a "T" pattern. Given the conditions I aged the track only 5 minutes or so.

I bring my boy up to the start of the track and once he has acquired it we move forward. We cross the parking lot and when we get to the top of the T, he goes left. Now, I'm expecting him to go to the end of the left leg and go WTF? before he figures it out. Well, he only goes maybe 20 feet before he realizes he's going in the wrong direction. He turns 180 deg and follows the track to ultimately find the decoy. Christmas! My friend (decoy) was flabbergasted, but not more than me even though I already have confidence in him. 

Here's the amazing thing. Just when I begin to believe how good a dogs' nose is I witness something like this. The dog was able to differentiate Ascending odor from Decending odor on hard surface wherein the back track (track on top of track) was less than a minute old! Incredible! And, he figured it out FAST. So now I have to do a few more, then come up with some other ways to try and trick him.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

WTF, no video. Where was your cop cam Howard? Just kidding.

I live for stuff like that. I've seen it before and it's cool. There's something about learning to "see" scent through a dog. I call it remnants of action coming to life.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> WTF, no video. Where was your cop cam Howard? Just kidding.
> 
> I live for stuff like that. I've seen it before and it's cool. There's something about learning to "see" scent through a dog. I call it remnants of action coming to life.


 As a rule we don't usually video training but when we do we delete it right after review. In this case I may run it again and post it. There wont be anything in it that could hurt us, only help us.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Its called the Scent Intensity Gradient Theory. You laid, in essence, a backtrack. The forward track (heading to the left) is older than the backwards track (heading back to the right) but the overall scent picture is that the track is fresher going left to right. The dog was very quick to pick up the change of odor breakdown and correctly flipped himself to take the fresher track. Well Done! Very Well Done!


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

For what it's worth, we ran a missing person's case where the total time the subject was on the scene between arrival and departure was 15 minutes. We ran the trail weeks later and the dogs didn't have a problem discerning between the entrance and exit trails and none of the dogs defaulted to known paths of travel this subject routinely walked. The trail the dogs worked ultimately resulted in body recovery from a local river. 

(When you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth- Arthur Conan Doyle)


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sarah Platts said:


> For what it's worth, we ran a missing person's case where the total time the subject was on the scene between arrival and departure was 15 minutes. We ran the trail weeks later and the dogs didn't have a problem discerning between the entrance and exit trails and none of the dogs defaulted to known paths of travel this subject routinely walked. The trail the dogs worked ultimately resulted in body recovery from a local river.
> 
> (When you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth- Arthur Conan Doyle)



I knew there hd to be a name for it.  Thanks

Please expand on your last post. I got a little lost. More detail please. Sounds like a great job by the dogs but unfortunately a sad outcome.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

To follow up on Sarah's post, it has been discovered that a dog's nose is so sensitive and can determine from which direction the freshest scent come from.

Supposedly each nostril reacts independently. 

If the strongest scent comes from the left then the left nostril will pick it up first, etc.

With that in mind I would expect the dog to turn right because that was the freshest track laid. 

Interesting and confusing! :-k


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> To follow up on Sarah's post, it has been discovered that a dog's nose is so sensitive and can determine from which direction the freshest scent come from.
> 
> Supposedly each nostril reacts independently.
> 
> ...



Interesting Bob. I will say that the wind was left to right. It may, or may not have been a factor. I will try it with different wind directions to see. 

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the works...We tracked an armed suspect who laid down in some pepper trees to hide from us. When he had the chance he moved about 15 feet to hide behind a fence. My dog went apeshizz in the area where the guy laid down. He likely had been there for 15 minutes dumping sweat and adrenalin.. Dog refused to leave the area and follow the track out. The wind was wrong for the dog to smell him where he layed down. I've heard of rabbit dogs doing the same thing. The pool of odor is so great where the rabbit rests and the dog is overwhelmed by the hot scent that the escape route is ignored. How can they do so damn good then get hoodwinked by something so small? Amazing. Just when ya think ya got em figured out.](*,)


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> I knew there hd to be a name for it.  Thanks
> 
> Please expand on your last post. I got a little lost. More detail please. Sounds like a great job by the dogs but unfortunately a sad outcome.


The subject, late one night, had walked from his dorm to the dorm of some female friends. He was there 15 minutes before leaving never to be seen again. When we came in many weeks later there was a bunch of "Where's Waldo" theories flying around. The dogs involved tracked him across campus where due to his alcohol level and the darkness, missed a crucial turn to the footbridge taking a header off the bank landing into the river. Due to the above and because it was the middle of winter, died there. We think he stayed in this little deep cul-de-sac spot until the spring break-up and flood [due to the locations of HR indications] ping-ponged his way down the river until he got caught up by the strainers below the local dam. Once the water went down, they were able to recover the body.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard, I think your dog got caught up in the scent pool. Some dogs do good working through scent pools and breaking out on the exit trail. Others get to wrapped up in it. If I had to take a edgemicated guess, I think your dog was amped up on the track and when he got to the fear/adrenalin flood spot wasn't clear headed enough to work out of it. A form of nasal tunnel vision if that makes sense. In those cases, [not that I would presume you aren't aware of this] it helps to pull the dog a bit away from that spot and run a casting circle. 

I just ran into a similar situation today during training. There was a pretty fair wind with occasional gusts and a dog that normally has zero issues working out of a scent pool got all hung up. I had to move him out 30 feet or so and run a casting circle to pick up the subject's track.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> To follow up on Sarah's post, it has been discovered that a dog's nose is so sensitive and can determine from which direction the freshest scent come from.
> 
> Supposedly each nostril reacts independently.
> 
> ...


This is when you are coming into a track from the perpendicular or casting the nose back and forth over the track to establish the direction of travel. The width between the nostrils is sufficient to allow a 'timing' difference between the scent hitting the olfactory processing from one nostril as compared to the other nostril. [one study pegged this at 0.3 millisecond] Similar to the way you can tell where a sound is coming from. The sound wave hits one ear before it hits the second. Yes, fractions of a milli-second but its enough for your brain to process the direction it came from. [egads, now I'm posting like rick.... so sorry everyone]

This difference of timing and the time it takes you to walk one footstep to the next footstep is sufficient for a dog to determine which footstep is older or fresher from the other one.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sarah, No doubt he got caught in the scent pool. We didn't have the luxury of of leaving the area and casting him around due to the extreme thickness of the vegetation. The guy being down wind didn't help at all. It's lucky that I recognized what was happening and it was I who actually saw the guy. Once he moved the dog locked onto him an d it was game over.

Regarding you track of the missing person...you were able to obtain a viable track weeks later? How could it be I can't wrap my head around that one.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Interesting Bob. I will say that the wind was left to right. It may, or may not have been a factor. I will try it with different wind directions to see.
> 
> Just to throw a monkey wrench into the works...We tracked an armed suspect who laid down in some pepper trees to hide from us. When he had the chance he moved about 15 feet to hide behind a fence. My dog went apeshizz in the area where the guy laid down. He likely had been there for 15 minutes dumping sweat and adrenalin.. Dog refused to leave the area and follow the track out. The wind was wrong for the dog to smell him where he layed down. I've heard of rabbit dogs doing the same thing. The pool of odor is so great where the rabbit rests and the dog is overwhelmed by the hot scent that the escape route is ignored. How can they do so damn good then get hoodwinked by something so small? Amazing. Just when ya think ya got em figured out.](*,)



This makes sense to me.

In hunting with earth dogs most critters that use a den, 99% dug by ground hogs here and will have rooms for resting, rooms used for toilet matters, escape tunnels and a room they will hibernate in.

With young terrier just learning to find under ground it's not uncommon to dig to the dog and find it in the toilet area where the scent is obviously very strong.

If the dog doesn't get up to a ground hog pretty quick the hog will dig itself in and wall off the dog. 

The good dogs figure these things out and I don't think you can really break them because a good earth dog is more about genetics then training. 

You can't make the litle bassids go down a dark hole in the ground if they don't have it in them.:-o8-[

Occasionally you'll find an older dog that cant get over these issues and you just quit hunting with it even though you have a yr or more in starting this dog.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Regarding you track of the missing person...you were able to obtain a viable track weeks later? How could it be I can't wrap my head around that one.


Human scent lasts longer than we think it does. I took a list of the compounds that they say comprise human scent and started doing some research on them. Some of the compounds listed as volatile degrade rapidly into forms considered stable able to tolerate heat and such. Some do the opposite and volatize to other forms - some stable in the new configuration, some not. For your line of work, it's not practical. This aged trailing is more useful for detectives and not the street cop. I've shown and worked with some police K9s but the officers didn't delve into it to deeply wanting to keep the hot track, non scent specific felon tracking skill instead. 

Most of the time, we (the handlers) don't want to know the age of a track or much info past a starting location. Handlers throw a lot of their own bias into the work which affects the dog. Didn't think much about age of trails until my group worked a missing person case in NC. After that was done, the detectives asked if we would mind looking at another missing person case. They knew where he was last seen and where they had found the body but wanted to know where he had gone between points A and B. Two handlers started their dogs and we ended up at a point down the road at a construction laydown yard. I dropped my dog onto the trail at that point. Dog took off and went down the road where we eventually ended up at bridge. Dog hung up there, circling one side of the road, then took off again. We ended up taking a couple of turns onto various county roads passing dead deer and other trash. At one point the dog went off the road, through a small field, back and forth until he got to this black trash bag. Nosed it for a bit and then a mad dash back down the road. I halted him and told the cops we needed to look in that trash bag. It was opened and inside were the rags and stuff used to clean up the guy's blood (subject had had his throat cut). Kept on the trail ending up at the next town in a migrant housing project. At that point I pulled my dog for exhaustion and bleeding foot pads. That night at dinner we asked for specifics on the track. The area my dog circled by the bridge? That's where the subject's body had been recovered from. The trash bag is obvious and contained evidence of the crime. Age of the track? Twenty-eight days at the time we worked it.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sarah, that is totally amazing! After reading that, and your PM it makes me feel as if I'm just playing at it.

How do you get the dog to lock in on the target odor? Do you use a scent article?


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Sarah, that is totally amazing! After reading that, and your PM it makes me feel as if I'm just playing at it.
> 
> How do you get the dog to lock in on the target odor? Do you use a scent article?


Howard, you are not playing at it. You are a K9 cop and you have a particular focus based on your job. I don't have that issue and can try a lot of stuff because I have the 'leisure' to mess with scent. What you are doing with your patrol dog is worlds ahead what I usually see being done. You are absolutely one of the most progressive-minded police K9 handlers I have met. Hell, you even beat a lot of SAR handlers who are scared to try something for fear of looking bad to search management or LE. You are willing to experiment a bit which MOST will not do. This is rare in my experience.

For this type of work you ALWAYS have to have a scent article. Age isn't important as long as it's a good article. It's not always clothing. I've used chapsticks, cd's, paper they drew on, spent casings, even washed clothing. Someone wrote a saying once that went along the lines of 'How would my dog solve this if I wasn't here messing him up...." I try to keep that in mind when I do this work.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thank you for the kind words Sarah. It's nice to be appreciated by people who have the same love that I do.

Regarding the scent article. Does it mess with the dog when he starts on a fresher, or older scent picture of the same target? How the hell does the dog connect the dots from a month old scent article to a 2 week old track old track? In a perfect world you would have a scent article that was worn/touched at the same time the person went missing. Such and interesting phenomena.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Just guessing but from her earlier response VOCs, just in different concentration. Let's see what she has to say though.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Just guessing but from her earlier response VOCs, just in different concentration. Let's see what she has to say though.


 I kinda get that from her response but time and scent degradation would leave a different scent picture I would think. Unless the dog is taking certain components of that scent picture that still matches the one offered to him to target. Just my guess anyway. In no way am I even on the same planet when it comes to this stuff. I'm picking brains here for my own selfish reasons.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Well Howard, if we can't be selfish we wouldn't be human beings, now would we? :twisted:

And yes, in a nutshell I expect that is what occurs.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Regarding the scent article. Does it mess with the dog when he starts on a fresher, or older scent picture of the same target? How the hell does the dog connect the dots from a month old scent article to a 2 week old track old track? In a perfect world you would have a scent article that was worn/touched at the same time the person went missing. Such and interesting phenomena.


 


Howard Knauf said:


> I kinda get that from her response but time and scent degradation would leave a different scent picture I would think. Unless the dog is taking certain components of that scent picture that still matches the one offered to him to target. Just my guess anyway. In no way am I even on the same planet when it comes to this stuff. I'm picking brains here for my own selfish reasons.


 Yes, and no. Yes, it helps when working with aged trails if you have a scent source of the same degraded age as the track. No, you don’t have to but sometimes you will need some details to understand why the dog does something. It’s not so much the handler has to know but someone should to connect a few dots if necessary. Howard, you are not so far off with your thinking.

To illustrate, can you both stand another war story? I work from empirical evidence and need a story to hang the details from. 

Once upon a time, we got the call to work a rape case. For reasons that escape me now, LE didn’t have us collect a scent article from the scene but instead presented us with an item from evidence storage that they had secured 6 months prior. When I scented my dog on this item, the dog left the scene and trailed into a neighborhood. We went to a lot of houses but specific locations. Side windows, back doors, certain spots in the backyards until I finally got the V8 moment and realized the dog was earmarking Peeping Tom behavior. A homeowner caught us in her backyard and when my PD flanker asked if she had seen anything unusual, she said that several weeks ago she saw this person [giving a description] and said “he was standing back there in those bushes right where that lady is with her dog…..” We went all over that neighborhood. Finally, we ended up at a house and the dog wouldn’t leave. Mine was not the only dog that took this meandering course. The handlers are all scratching their collective heads because as the crow flies the crime scene wasn’t that far from this house. The big question was “why didn’t the dogs go from Point A to Point B?” The father gave us a fresh scent article from the home. When scented on the new item, all the dogs collectively went in a beeline from A to B. No meandering. So we started experimenting with mismatched scent articles and track ages. Again based on empirical knowledge, the dogs are using more than base “human” scent. It’s more complex than that.

Going back to the above story, the father said that about 2 weeks ago the son had just had his meds changed from what he was taking 6 months prior. Imagine when you scent the dog you are handing him a bouquet of odor based on the base human scent that is mixed with the metabolites of foods and chemicals we ingest (meds, nicotine, recreational drug use, spices such as garlic or peppers, etc) as well as topical applications of perfumes, deodorants, etc plus the things we wear or are exposed to via second-hand transfer. Consider the dog’s nose is so sophisticated that they can break down and analyze this mish-mash. I imagine this as a bar code to give me something visual to work off of. When we scented our dogs on the first article we handed them a specific scent picture we wanted them to follow. [Let’s call this scent picture E-D-C-B-A] Yes, it’s complex but its what allows trailing dogs to function in a human scent target rich urban environment. The dogs worked down the scent tree first matching the entire scent picture until gradually being forced to the sole thing remaining, which is how we ended up finally at the house. E-D-C-B-A then D-C-B-A then C-B-A, then B-A and finally A. Then when we presented a current up-to-date scent article [G-F-C-B-A] the dogs had an exact match going from the crime scene to the house. 

When collecting or presented a scent article if helps to understand what time frame the item was collected in. When working with mismatched article age vs track age the dog may end up doing some zigging around before they finally zag and you end up with an answer. This is not the dog farting around because he likes to see you walk although non-canine flankers may not understand what is happening and thus get impatient with the complex process the dog is working through. It’s like putting a puzzle together when you lack a picture on the cover. 

And just to keep things interesting, working off the chemical theory, I had a friend scent their dog only on the medication that was being taken by an individual who had laid a track in an urban setting. The dog had no problem following and locating the subject not by using their human odor but only on the chemical smell of the metabolized medication. Now if that doesn’t boggle your mind than I don’t know what would.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

I think you answered this question awhile back Sarah, however, since it is on topic I will ask again for myself and all reading... For the extremely long aged tracks (extreme being weeks to months) do you solely practice those type of aged tracks (and do you do them blind/double blind in training) and are the dogs used solely used for long ages tracks... I ask, as I would imagine it being a speciality unit.. 

I think most LE don't realize the amazing potential the dogs nose has trailing wise as they are multitasking big time and used to running their dogs off of fear scent.. And highly contaminated PLS's that have fear scent from the perpetrator(s), victim(s) and possibly bystanders.. Just getting out of the gate is impressive.. To be open minded and training to the levels Howard has/is awesome and I applaud you as well!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Sarah Platts said:


> To illustrate, can you both stand another war story?
> 
> Now if that doesn’t boggle your mind than I don’t know what would.


Yes. That was a good story! I remember it well as you shared it before but this time there was more detail and a different context in which it was told. This is an excellent example to support why I don't mind when people revisit topics that have been addressed before. Certain ones we probably could do without, but they're pretty few and far between.

And very little boggles my mind when it comes to a dogs ability to work a track, locate odor, etc.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sarah, Thank you for the !!!OUTSTANDING POST!!!


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Misty Wegner said:


> For the extremely long aged tracks (extreme being weeks to months) do you solely practice those type of aged tracks (and do you do them blind/double blind in training) and are the dogs used solely used for long ages tracks... I ask, as I would imagine it being a speciality unit..


yes, I practice the aged trails. Sometimes blind - [double blind is a misnomer because over half the time in training I'm running without a flanker] - sometimes I know cardinal points - like the lightly aged trailing video I have on my New Puppy thread aka the Gus thread where I told the subject to get travel to various points however they like but end up wherever or go past this point. 

No, the dogs are not used solely for aged work. I work "normal" stuff too because I'm the trailing resource for a couple of SAR teams. I cert through NAPWDA/VPWDA and that standard is 1.5 miles, aged 1 hour. I remember one test where the MT got off the phone with the runner and told me "this is a real type search. The runner's lost and don't know where they are at so I told them to stop walking and have a seat. If you don't come back with them, I guess you fail. "

Here's the thing with working aged trails. You have the subject lay the trail and then tell them to leave and not come back. No re-inserting the runner at the end of the problem. Depending on weather conditions it can screw you up because the dog 9 times out of 10 will leave the old track if they catch fresher scent from another direction. I'm not going to punish a dog who takes fresher scent by dragging them back to an old one. 

The other thing is to work variable aged trails almost from the beginning. Once they are past visual puppy runaways and have the idea of following human scent you start to mix-up the trail age. I think the 3rd trail I put Sam on, as a puppy, was one that was 10 days old. I wanted to see if I could at least get a start out of him never dreaming he would actually be able to do it. Not only got the start but got the track as well until he got tired and I stopped him. One of the things you do if you only work tracks of a certain age is *fix* the dog's nose to a certain age point. Then when you throw them on a really old trail, you will usually get a negative because of the lack of exposure to the chemical changes that occur with human scent. Less of a problem if you use scent articles as old as the track itself but can be an issue. The other hang-up is the human half. The handler who just KNOWS there is no way the dog can do this and all that negativity gets transmitted down the lead and makes the dog hesitate and freeze up. The team does just fine as long as the HANDLER doesn't know to much. That's one reason, I ask to know little beyond a starting point. It keeps me from screwing up the dog.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Thanks Sarah. That is great explanations for how and why. I have run my girl on 72+hr and had her golden, and I have seen her alert on spots subject sat or hid a week prior while running a different track (same subject). I don't practice really old tracks as one, LE isn't apt to call a trailing dog im anyway (I just respond to the callout (I am on roster) anyway to be used however they deem fit.. The surrounding counties are much more willing and excited to work with a trailing dog and have received me with open arms) and that would not be the usual type of calls (although, I guess it might be as I am further away and thus add aging to the trail, lol). HOWEVER, I think it absolutely wide to expose them to all sorts of ages on trails. We change scenarios, scent articles (the more unusual the better) and try to 'trick' the dogs so they are exposed to the wackiness of the world. 

My girl never batted an eye to aging, and yes, she is definitely one to shortcut to fresher scent if it is available (good if actual callout, not so good when training, lol). My male was hesitant at first to tracks more than 7hrs old.. He is a much more sensitive and secure but not naturally bold dog (he is maturing into one, and is really a detail oriented dog, he is one to check to be sure it is OK with management before embarking on something new to start. If encountered on the trail already, he absorbs it like it's routine) so we practice aged trails with him often. Now, he moves confidently at the start.. But my point was seeing how the scent change affected him... 

My log book has many variations of 'blind', 'known', etc.. Double blind for me is like an actual callout, PLS is all you get for the most part, lol.. But blind can still be with a general known ending, or a landmark crossed, or something to that end... I try to train on double blind or mostly blind trails more than anything, as I find it keepsy confidence in my dogs.. If I train toany technical trails where I know all the variables, I find it harder for me to wean myself off them... I hate that, lol.. My poor dogs would be so much better off if I could stay put of the way, haha.. 

Love reading everyone's responses, stories, experiences and thoughts.. I learn so much and glean ideas


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Misty,

I will throw a caveat out there for what it's worth. Be careful telling people you work trails beyond a certain age. There is a certain sect in the SAR K9 world that is frigging vicious against handlers who work outside of what's considered the traditional norm. The detectives don't seem to have a problem with it but your peers probably will. Train for yourself and to extend your knowledge but be prepared for the sniggering and comments of "you're drinking the juice" or running "Kool-Aid" trails. They will try to grind you up and roll over your grave.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sarah, thanks for the recap! Awesome job. I've known for a long time that dogs will use most any type of available odor to create that sight picture in their mind. There's no reason why they wouldn't use non biological odors as part of that picture. When doing hard surface training I have no doubt that those additional odors are being used, possible more so than on soft surface tracks. We have switched our tracking to mostly hard surface as it really tests the dogs abilities, and expands their effectiveness. Anything other than a hard surface is childs play now and our tracking success rate has skyrocketed! I reviewed my boy's deployment records and can see an outstanding proficiency in his work. We document all real live tracks as confirmed or unconfirmed. I'm happy to say that I haven't had an unconfirmed track since November of last year. Now, not every track came up with a body but evidence found on the track and witness confirmation has confirmed that we as a team are doing something right. My boy has been in service for 2 1/2 years now and he has a clue. He knows the game and he knows what's waiting for him at the end of the track. Real life experiences has driven him even harder as he does quite enjoy engaging bad guys.  No matter how the track ends he always gets what he wants or gets lots of praise from me for doing a good job. He's what we call push button now.

As a PSD we do have a narrow focus, this is true but I'm all about making him as good as he can be which in the end makes me look good to my peers.  See? Selfish. Oh, and I like to get the bad guys too!\\/


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Howard, I don't think being SAR or police, fire fighter, Dr etc is because of altruism.. At least not solely.. We always have some motivation to do what we do (even dogs who love to do whatever they love.. We use that desire and mold it) that has personal gains. I admire the fact you train specifically for trails and are challenging yourself.. Of course bite work is more exciting for most LE and the dog, but you have to catch the bad guys first and you are making yourself into a highly effective team. Great job! 

Thanks for the heads up Sarah.. Ironically, the LE in my teams County is very much in the mindset that scent is only viable for a couple hours max.. I've tried explaining the difference between how police dogs train (most, as Howard is proving not all are throwing in the towel ) and how SAR trailing dogs are trained (especially being solely for nosework) and the scent picture of scent article vs fear scent, and the training for aged trails etc... That hasn't worked at all, lol.. I figure the proof will come with the surrounding areas and the finds we will have with them.. Ultimately, a successful record will tell the truth more than any quoted statistics or arguments for the latter... Still, I am usually cautious about what I say I do for normal trainings with others.. Although I am willing to try most anything to see how the dogs react to the conditions..


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard,

Now I know you are amazing! You, Sir, are absolutely tiddley-wink awesome! Stupendous even! Congrats on you and your dog's accomplishments!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sarah Platts said:


> Howard,
> 
> Now I know you are amazing! You, Sir, are absolutely tiddley-wink awesome! Stupendous even! Congrats on you and your dog's accomplishments!


 Don't give me the big head. Sure as shizz he'll screw up tomorrow night.](*,)

Misty...you can't bite em if you can't find em.  Nosework, specifically tracking, is our bread and butter. Unfortunately it is the most time consuming and frustrating...not to mention exhausting. That is why most PSD handlers fail to train it enough. In the end though, it's a great feeling to come up aces with the bad guy in cuffs.

We have regular in service training tomorrow night. I believe I'm going to have one of the guys lay a track for me and let it age about 3 hours while we do other things. It'll be done on soft surface first. Don't want to get too far ahead of myself.

Another question....how does scent hold up under wet conditions? I'll run a track with a slight drizzle but here in Florida we get some real toad stranglers. I've had requests to track in those downpours but I respond by telling them that the current weather conditions is not conducive to a successful track. :-k

We also have to deal with the blazing heat. Another track killer for the PSD. My oldest track in 95 deg heat was an hour. Bad guy apprehended. The fact that he was leaving droplets of blood now and then helped immensely I'm sure.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Water is a wonderful wonderful conductor of scent... Heavy rain might move the scent to gutters and cracks, but the scent molecules seem to be attracted to moisture, so I love working in rain.. Heat is definitely a scent killer, as it causes decomp to occur more quickly but also can raise the odor above the dogs head thus making it hard or impossible to find until it lowers (heat rises cold air sinks). For every mile per hour of wind the scent can move 10ft from its placement, for every degree on a slope it can role 14ft (ASCT website is full of scientific studies about scent) so even a slight steady wind of 4mph can cause a 40ft drift. Cars, people, heat, cross currents, slope, etc can make those distances further and in places one would not expect... 

Cool moist weather is my favorite... Although, this winter was a learning curve.. After a good snow I went to run a couple of aged trails... Everyone had their snow blowers out and the snow plows seemed to be following the track my dog wanted to run... We were everywhere!! So moisture isn't always a friend, lol! 

Be sure to post your outcome Howard.. I bet you will be thrilled with how well your dog will do.. Especially if you go in with no preconceived notions... We can always be our own (and dogs) worst enemy haha


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thanks for the insight. I will track on soft surface in heavier rain but pass on hard surface. Just my mythical perceptions I suppose. I'll post the tomorrows results. May even try to get another back track in between the other things we'll be doing.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Misty, You will have to send me the link to the site you are pulling those numbers from. I would love to go browsing. The one thing to remember that most of the scent movement patterns are geared to how airscent dogs work (or at least the theory of how they work) whereas trailers work off a combination of airscent and ground trail.

Howard, I've done a couple of trails in monsoon conditions and frankly it sucked. All that rain just fills up my boots and then I sound like a pregnant water balloon hoofing it down the street. 

In case you are worried the rain does not wash the scent away. Yeah maybe the skin rafts but not the oils and such that are also being sloughed off. In fact I usually get a cleaner track after a heavy rain because it washed away all the loose fluff.

The thing with temperature is that no matter how hot I think it is the conditions at the dog's nose level is worse. Not just for the heat being absorbed by the hard surface but the sunray/heat reflection that occurs. I don't know how the dog feels about it but it must be like working in an oven. And when you get one of those quick passing t'storm and the pavement gets all steamy must make it seem like a boiling sauna. So I'm on the fence about (for trailing at least) that the scent is above the dog's head. I tend to favor the idea that the heat dries out the membranes reducing the sensitivity and maybe lightly toasts the membrane layer making them less soft and pliable for molecule processing. I've run my dogs in 95F heat and they tend to run with a higher head and I think it's to protect their nose from the heat on the hot pavement. [This is all my subjective opinion, of course]


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Yea, heat is a major factor here. Not only for scent detection but also the viable working time of the dog. Heat exposure is a real factor.

Ref tracking AFTER a monsoon....I'm good with that. It's the downpour that sucks. Luckily for me 99% of cops don't read this stuff.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Why on earth does everyone hate to work in the rain? It's a life giver! 

Howard, you deserve a pat on the back. You've got a great track record and something to be proud of!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I appreciate that. Fortunately, every handler on my unit is of the same mind set. I'd like to think that I played a big role in that. Seeing is believing and when they see a dog do some amazing things they all want to try the same. I will say, there are a handful of handlers and trainers in my area that have the same mind set as me. Some may not push it as hard but they are very open minded and willing to try something different. Not all mind you, but enough to keep the ball rolling. In my county we have approx 40 K9 teams among 12 or 14 agencies. Out of those 40, there are about 8 guys who meet the description above. The rest are spread between middle of the road handlers to downright crap handlers. The city that borders our South calls us all the time. ALL of their officers say their teams suck. It's a good feeling catching bad guys for other agencies. It bumps up our cred and our command staff love to get the atta boy letters. Not being biased here cause I tell it like it is but...I believe we have the best teams in the county, period. It's because we train for real, with forethought and we do what we have to do until we find what works and/or fixes a problem. All of us get along and none of us think they are better than the other. I'm the old timer so I get a lot of default questions but the bottom line is I trained 2 of the handlers and went to a full K9 school with our newest handler. Plus, he's been training with our unit for almost 3 years now and is doing very well.

Recently the newbie thanked myself and the 2 other handlers for being there for him. Even as a newbie he can see the quality of training he gets as opposed to handlers from other agencies. I personally fixed a couple problems for him that almost made him throw in the towel. Tracking was one of them. This dog was way too much for a newbie but he's doing well now. We did not let him sink. He is worlds ahead of other handlers with the same amount of time holding a leash.

So, after reading these amazing stories of SAR dogs doing it right, I have no choice but to step up my game. I'll never reach those levels but I'll take what I can and apply it to my needs. Thank you all for your input. The day I stop learning is the day I hang it up. Keep it coming yall.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nicole said

"Howard, you deserve a pat on the back. You've got a great track record and something to be proud of!"

A huge DITTO on this!

Concerning reward at the end of a track.

I firmly believe that a good dog is self rewarded with tracking.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard,

I said it before and will again. You and your group are the exception. The very idea that when you see an problem you try to fix it and actually try to get exceptional is rare. There is no reason those other mediocre teams can't do better other than they 1) are to lazy, or 2) don't give a crap. And sad to say, a lot of SAR people are the same way. They get to a certain level and stop. Whether its because they passed their cert test or the command climate allows it. Please don't think that all sar dogs do what I have mine do. I've chosen to step outside the box and most do not or will not.

I remember one case where the SGT, after I had run my dog, turned to his K9 officer and said, "How come your dog can't do that?" I had to jump and explain the differences between patrol dogs and what I do. I try to NOT get on the bad side of the K9 guys but is a tightrope walk because the bosses see a volunteer (and a girl at that) doing stuff their paid guys can't do. It creates a situation I don't like to see. And the SAR world suffers from the same thing. I've been told on more than one occasion to not "infect" others..... and to "keep my ways" to myself. I've finally come to the realization that a lot of people get to a level and STOP because its *good* enough.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Nicole Stark said:


> Why on earth does everyone hate to work in the rain? It's a life giver!


There's just something about working in a solid sheet of water, where it's coming down so thick and fast that it blinds you and almost drowns you every time you inhale that takes the romance off of things.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

I love working in the rain, but we don't tend to get the monsoon that Sarah and Howard are talking about... 

I think most don't realize the amount of training and time that goes into, and is necessary, to be good and consistent (let alone very good) trailers.. Most don't want to put the time into it, and few enjoy running behind a hard pulling dog.. Those that do, well, all I can say is, the rewards given in watching the progress, reading the dog as (s) he traces an image of what the subject did with its nose, feel the bond created through the line like an umbilical chord, and rejoice in a hard job done well as a team.. Hard to beat and given only to those who sweat, cry, get frustrated, rejoice, think outside the box, think inside the box, practice, practice, practice, try new things, practice, ponder over every detail of what has been and will be, practice, read (everything on scent, trailing/tracking, victim behavior etc), practice, get excited because the weather will cause a new scenario for your dog - even when it is miserable for you, practice, pray and pray, study, practice.... You get the picture, lol! 

I have been told many times I do things differently (I have no where near the experience Sarah has, but see the trends in SAR handler's and locale LE expectations (not lumping everyone together as I know there are progressive in both areas) and it is said with a sneer or dismissive tone.. That's OK.. They (not all are bad) are still trying to get certified years later and my girl certified 7mos into training, my boy will be 9mos into training and they train on longer in age and distance, successfully..

So, kudos again to Howard.. Thanks to Sarah for sharing her knowledge and expertise so freely!!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Concerning reward at the end of a track.
> 
> I firmly believe that a good dog is self rewarded with tracking.


 Bob, no doubt this is true but in my case only about 25-40% of real tracks end up with a find and that's being a bit generous. With so many non finds I feel it is my job to keep the dog upbeat as I've seen some dogs, especially younger dogs, decline due to coming up empty handed so often. In the case of the neighboring agency...they rarely get a find on tracks. While I was out on vacation recently and when I returned I was approached by my squad members and supervisor who told me I cannot take any more time off. I asked them why. They told me it was because they had called for dogs from this agency and it was pathetic. This from non dog people...people who have run with our dogs and have actually learned when a dog is working and on odor. I was told that their dogs would just sniff around, eat grass, piss on everything and refuse to go over fences and, in one case, the dog kept biting the handler enough to draw blood. A couple of seriously dangerous events were involved. On a side note...another bordering city with only two dogs trains with us. The newest team was called to assist on day shift when none of us were available. This new handler had been on the road only 6 months. He used his dog to apprehend a burglary suspect who broke into a house and attacked a woman. This was the handlers first deployment for a physical apprehension and that dog did great. Good bite on his first outing. That dog has come miles since he first got on the street. And he is beyond other handlers with the same amount of time on the road. Although we were pissed that another agency got the apprehension, we were proud that the dog did his job and the fact that this guy trains with us like he's one of our own. This dog was very weak in tracking. We took a few weeks getting him up to speed and continue to work on it. Now he's almost as good as some of our better dogs.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

So, I laid a track and let it age for 3 hours tonight. A pocket knife was the starting article. As the track aged we did tracking with the other dogs as well as high risk stops with vehicle extractions. All was going well until one of the guys laid a track for the guy who laid mine. Well, he cut across my aging track and needless to say I was unhappy. Mainly because my original tracklayer was going to cross the track he laid for me. Knowing my dog I knew he'd hit that cross track and try to follow it by no fault of his own. Well I tried to run it anyway. The first 100 yds my boy was dead on it after locating the article at the start. As soon as we hit the cross track he wanted to follow it. I called it after that. I was proud he did so well on the oldest track hes done to date. Big confidence builder. I was upset that we didn't get to finish it. Oh well.

I also ran another T pattern with a back track on hard surface. I took video of that track but won't post it as it was not flattering and I'm anal(I know, I know). Dog was too much in and out of the root track but this time he didn't go left at the turn. He took a quick sniff left and went right and found the decoy. Did he learn that quick? We'll see. Track went West. 5 mph wind out of the NE this time.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Howard, did your tracklayer run his track before you ran yours? If that happened then I can see your boy going to freshest scent. If your tracklayer was able to wait so you could run yours then the problem would be solved unless your boy jumped to the freshest track but not his subjects.. It is hard when your subjects (tracklayers) are dog handler's as well.. Cross contamination everywhere... Another reason why so many don't practice trailing... So many variables involved.. 

Nice to hear your boy fast forwarded the backtrack and decided on the correct course of action... Self discovery in dogs is soo important.. It is easy to want to 'show' the dog what we want, but allowing them to problem solve through the problem is more important, imho... They learn it and gain confidence and seem to be able to apply what they learned into new scenarios.. So cool..


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Misty Wegner said:


> Howard, did your tracklayer run his track before you ran yours? If that happened then I can see your boy going to freshest scent..



Yes. My track was about 2 1/2 hours old when my track layer ran his dog. I ran his track with him and when I saw it headed towards my aged track I knew I was screwed. I ran it anyway just to see how he'd do on old odor and how'd he'd handle the cross track with the same person who laid mine. It went as expected. I don't fault the dog..I fault the humans.  We had plenty of room. Don't know why it happened. I shoulda let everyone know exactly where mine was. Next time.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"I also ran another T pattern with a back track on hard surface. I took video of that track but won't post it as it was not flattering and I'm anal(I know, I know). Dog was too much in and out of the root track but this time he didn't go left at the turn. He took a quick sniff left and went right and found the decoy. Did he learn that quick? We'll see. Track went West. 5 mph wind out of the NE this time."


Would the dog normally leave the track if he air scents the decoy?

Just curious because the wind was out of the NE.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Yes he will but I set this one up specifically so that the wind was at our back for the most part. He could not smell the hidden decoy. I may post the video for a few days just so yall can see. You can see him hit the T, look left, then go right.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard, I just want to make sure I follow you. Guy A lays your track. It ages. Guy B lays track for guy A who later runs it with a dog? Is this correct?

If so, your dog started on Guy As but when it intersected, which track did he follow? The one laid by guy A or guy B (which was worked by guy A)? I presume the second but I wasn't entirely sure.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Yea, it's a little confusing in text. Guy A lays my track. Guy A crosses the same track 2 1/2 hours later while running his own training track. Guy B lays the track for guy A. Guy B is a tard. 

Dog followed Guy A's fresher track when he hits the cross. Up until that point the dog was dead on the aged track.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I guess I've been doing this to long. \\/ as I didn't have any problem with figuring out Howard's sequence of events. I can see it all happening in my mind's eye....

Howard, have you done any trailing type work using scent articles? I know you guys like to keep that felony tracking skill (last person to cross an area - not using a scent article) but wondering if you can teach a mix? I showed this to an officer in my area and it helped.

There's two ways to try it. Start the dog like a normal track (no scent article) until you come across an item you KNOW belongs to your subject (aka the knife, clothing) , Take a moment and actually scent your dog to the knife or whatever the object is. Then continue the track. 

The other way is to scent the dog to the item at the start and then track. In either situation start with a clothing item first then move to other articles.

There may be a couple of hiccups while your dog is learning associations but after the reading the backtrack situation I know he would pick it up fast. Overall, I think it would help your skill set. The officer who was trying this didn't scent the dog every run as he wanted to keep the basic tracking skill up but introduction of the formal scenting to the article did up his game. I remember him calling me a couple of months after we started doing it very happy that what we had practiced lead to him do a complicated track catching a bad guy.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> Yea, it's a little confusing in text. Guy A lays my track. Guy A crosses the same track 2 1/2 hours later while running his own training track. Guy B lays the track for guy A. Guy B is a tard.
> .


Thanks Howard, I followed all that but clarify what happened when the dog gets to the point of the second track intersecting with the first. I presume he didn't follow the original track but followed the track of the fresher scent of the guy who was using the path of another laid for him.

What if something like this happened in the real world. What I mean is imagine the original track went much father, to eventually group up with someone else and a dog which crosses over the first part of the track you are on. If the dog followed where it intersected to the newer track was this wrong?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sarah, We use a scent article on about half our tracks. We've been doing it about 5 years now. We use them at the start or somewhere along the track, or both.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Video of the T track with the back track.

Not my boys' best effort. He is usually deep nosed on hard surface. For some reason he ping pongs across the track today. Wind is basically at our back but still blows odor to the left. Tracking area has slight contamination along with the scent from the other handlers behind us but he discriminate scents them as we approach the track. Track is along the visible center line of the road. The T is where the curb goes left. You can see the subtle track check before my boy goes right to follow the track to the decoy.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I didn't know if you were doing scent articles or not. 

The only thing about the ping-ponging was that it looked like he was using the gutters and grass to work the track from scent edge to scent edge. I don't know if it was due to the wind or not. The major difference was when he hit the backtrack 'T'. Noticeable change in behavior. Really smoothed out for a bit. Was your guy on the backside of the bushes and then moved away as the dog was coming around? Playing ring-around-the-rosie?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

He was told to go behind the bushes. Not sure what he actually did. You can see the dog about 15 ft off the hot track due to the wind then adjust around the bushes. Not his bet effort at all!](*,) Personally, I think on training days he gets wound up watching the other dogs and he gets ahead of himself sometimes. I've seen him do more precise tracks on asphalt than on grass. That's why I'm not happy with the video. Didn't have time to run another one.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

I liked the video.. I agree there was a distinct change in behavior and smoothing out at the T, however, I think it is human logic to believe hat scent must fall and stay where it is laid (not that I'm saying that is what you believe).. Too often I've seen people check their dogs because they weren't on top of the track the person laud but we're well within expectation of scent.. Think of perfume or Cologne, it doesn't stay just on the person wearing it, often you can smell it well before you send the person, and even can have a perfume/Cologne trail to follow where the person has been.. The dog 'hits' the strongest source of odor, asphalt, concrete, dips in terrain, obstacles, etc all change the dynamics of how the odor drifts or would 'naturally' come to lay.. Add wind (I am trying to find the articles for you Sarah but you can also go to www.asctk9.org and read a bunch of articles.. Tests have been conducted by Cornwell University amongst others) and cars going by and scent can drift further... 

I guess my point is (and I know you guys know this but I'm surprised at how many people I've met that don't, lol) that scent/odor is not linear, or at least I rarely is.. Sure, there are times that looking at gps overlap of track laid/run shows almost on top of each other, but so often I find that there are obvious drifts, usually corresponding to terrain or other features. Throw urban in, and I've found my dogs solidly in odor a block over from actual track but mirroring the turns subject made until the dog 'catches up' to the strongest track which is usually close proximity of the subject.. This doesn't happen all the time, but enough that I've learned to trust my dog.. They have the stronger source of scent capabilities, lol.. 

I liked watching the eagerness of your boy.. He came out testing the air and doing eliminations of those nearby and air currents.. You could tell he had already zeroed in on the track before you put the clip in the harness, and while he did ping pong (I agree with Sarah that he probably was hitting the pools off the grass, or the gutters) a bit, he seemed to be checking the boundaries of his source of odor.. 

Sorry if I rambled.. Did this off my phone and I can't see what I wrote (or typos) to double check..


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thanks Misty. I will say that due to my anal nature I like to see my dogs as close to the actual track as possible. And while it is hard surface with an almost cross breeze, I've seen him stay closer on hard surface than this particular video shows. My boy does know the game and a lesser trained eye would have missed the bystander check and track acknowledgement as we approached the track starting area. His eagerness brings a high nose which I don't like, but that's just me. Also...in real deployments when time is of the essence and emotions are a bit higher, it is easy for the dog to lose the track or miss a turn if he parallels a track to far away. Not to mention, we'd have to negotiate many more obstacles for no reason which is dangerous and exhausting.

With all that said, he did what I wanted him to do and the track was successful. He was just sloppy IMO. I told yall he would screw me.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

You are funny! Actually remind me of how I must be while I dissect every turn and nuances my dogs make, lol.. I agree with wanting the dog as close to the laid track as possible, even if just for our peace of mind (and yes, fringe scenting can get one into trouble fast.. Been there done that, lol). You know your dog and know his tendencies... While maybe not a glowing example of his abilities, I believe it showed he definitely knows the game and his job. 

It always surprises me how a dog can excel on a track that should never even be possible, in our mind.. And on a track that seems so simple, be stumped...goes to show that we as humans don't understand alot of what scent odors do and how they move or are interpreted by the dog... I love watching videos and flanking behind other dog handler's because watching how each dog works a scent is true poetry, at least in my opinion and weird mind.. Truly awesome..


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard, when you get a second would you mind going back to my last post and responding to it? I am interested in your response. The answer might be in the video but I cannot view it at the moment.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Hi Nicole, Howard can answer this as well as it is posed to him, but if the track was laid by the same person, the person being tracked, and they crossover their own track then the dog is not wrong... However, if say the person being tracked has a long trail and someone corpses over theor track and the dog 'jumps' track to the fresher track which is not the person they were scented on then they are wrong.. Does that answer the question? I'm curious if I'm reading your question correctly or not..


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Thanks Howard, I followed all that but clarify what happened when the dog gets to the point of the second track intersecting with the first. I presume he didn't follow the original track but followed the track of the fresher scent of the guy who was using the path of another laid for him.
> 
> What if something like this happened in the real world. What I mean is imagine the original track went much father, to eventually group up with someone else and a dog which crosses over the first part of the track you are on. If the dog followed where it intersected to the newer track was this wrong?



That is exactly what happened. Same odor, different age. He did what he's supposed to do and I knew he would. That's why I was irritated.. I did try to get him back on the aged track but he would have none of it. He had that look like "Same guy, dad! He went that way!....ya bug dummy!

In your second sentence scenario...yes it would be wrong. We regularly use up to 4 additional decoys that either cross the track, or walk with the primary track target. Dog stays on the target we begin with. I've had successful tracks with lots of cross tracks or multiple suspects. Dog pretty much stays on the target we begin with. Not 100% mind you, but most the time. No way of knowing for sure until you get those involved and interview them. This can be dangerous sometimes (I was reminded of this a few months ago....See the percieved remorse thread) but my work is inherently dangerous anyway.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

OK. Thanks for explaining it. I had that worked out in my head when I read it the first time but thought there had to be another explanation for why you were irritated that he did what he was supposed to do. Is this because you set out with working an aged track but didn't get to?

I get the notion of cross tracks from other decoys and totally would expect your PSD to ignore those tracks but if he reverted to the fresher scent where the handler (your track layer) walked over it and the dog followed that track I'd think this is not a failure in the least.

What am I missing? The only thing I keep coming back to is that maybe your track layer hadn't run his track yet, but by what your saying that didn't happen. Your track layer worked his dog and your dog caught a fresher scent of his track which crossed the original one he laid for you. As such that would presumably bring the "perp" closer to you in time (fresher track). I'd think you'd want exactly what you got, just not what you set out to achieve.

I feel like a dolt. Maybe I'm looking at this from the dogs perspective and final outcome and not yours and that's why I don't see the obvious?


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

He wasn't upset at the dog but the tracklayer for laying a trail over his aging track for the dog handler that was also his subject/tracklayer. The dog did the correct thing, but he had wanted to work an aged track but because his tracklayer had to cross over the track he had laid for Howard's dog when he ran his dog, Howard's dog then had a fresh track over an aged by his subject, so it ended up being a hot track instead of aged... Did that make sense? Or did I confuse more? Lol


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I follow. 

Um… LOL, ok after thinking more about this, if I liken this to climaxing too early, which is what pretty much happened, then I totally get it. Stupid analogy but for whatever reason I get it now. 

Bummer Howard (big evil grin). Better luck next time?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Both of you are right. The 3 hr track would have been the oldest track to date that I would have put him on. I was pissed because I didn't get to run the whole thing. It was going to be a great learning experience for me and the dog. I'll do it again next week. Next time I'll be more dilligent in letting everyone know what place is off limits.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Um… LOL, ok after thinking more about this, if I liken this to climaxing too early,


 Aint touching that one.:-o


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

That's one way to kill a thread...


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

LOL, I think weird thoughts. I blame it on being left handed.

Seriously though, I see and relate to the world differently than other people do. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why Howard would be bothered by that. Then it just came to me and I was like OH! Well, my... and now I understand.

Howard, delete my ah ha moment and carry on will ya? I definitely didn't want to kill your thread like that.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

You Alaskans are special


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

LOL something like that.

Speaking of special I have a .500 SW Alaskan Backpacker. Now that's something just a little bit special. It'll knock the sense out of you if you aren't paying attention.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> LOL something like that.
> 
> Speaking of special I have a .500 SW Alaskan Backpacker. Now that's something just a little bit special. It'll knock the sense out of you if you aren't paying attention.


 That's a serious fire stick. Then again, you got serious critters up there. You need big medicine for them thar bars.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Think it's the moose (and mosquitoes) I would be more mindful of... Not that I'm saying I would be cozy running up on a bear either, but moose are mean buggers


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Moose thankfully stop short, same as bear. And… sometimes they don't.

It takes a different constitution to make it through shit like that. And shit, really is the right word. I carried in the bush before, off and on depending upon what my gut said. That all changed last summer with that rogue moose. I believe she had a calf that was injured by a brown bear but it eventually died. 

I don't know if it was time or the curiosity of the Mastiff, but the cow was a bit out of her mind for a while, charging anyone who might pass by her area. After it was done, all I recall was the stabbing and pounding of her hoofs in that charge or well, the sheer closeness of it to my dear dog, to piss me off. And so I have remained.

I haven't looked at the environment the same since. On that day, I see my dog dart off the trail to check something out only to see a massive mound of brown rise to my left. Then upright, I could feel it, I saw the dog running, and those ears/hoofs barred with intent, mere feet away from her. 

I rose, with the same intent. It was odd. I found myself roaring and not like city folk might read the word but as in I dredge up everything primal in me and redirect the moose toward me for my dog. I will die for you. I would have, she saw that and turned on me. I stood unarmed and she stopped.

Someone once said these experiences I have had with this Mastiff are...

Different and personal…they are.

Today, I left the house with the Mastiff to explore. I saw Mallards and Gulls. Then I rounded the bend with the dog to a place I haven't been before. What? An otter? Where did it come from? Does it have a companion? Who knows, only the otter does. But yes it was there alone, living it seems, with a pair of Mallards. I look overhead and see an Eagle, then the calling of Gulls in between the Eagle calls.

I like this life of random awesomeness. It's kinda cool. Yet, I am more vigilant now. Less for myself than I am for the dog (the Mastiff who follows herself, the Dutch follows me). As to the former I don't know why that is, it just is. 

Tracking progression is what led me here, this dog and what I have witnessed through her is what keeps me interested in these threads. I enjoy them all. I suspect I might feel so long after this dog leaves me.


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