# Ugh. And it's all downhill from here.



## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

So lately, I've been seeing an increase in the local classifieds with people selling GSDs from 'champion' working lines, German lines, etc., and dark sables, light sables, grey sables, red sables, etc. Prices usually about $300-500.

Hadn't seen any Malinois or Dutchies, thankfully.

And then... just now:



DUTCH/MALINOIS/GSD
pups. 8 weeks old. $100 each.
Call #######.



God help us all. ](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Damnit


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

When I was in St. Louis last weekend for our club's trial, I was reading the classifieds and there were Cane Corso puppies for sale. :roll: And get this little gem:

http://www.malinoisrescue.org/ncentral.shtml#Leo



> Leo is a beautiful five month old puppy who came into rescue on 6/10. Leo was turned into a shelter by his owners *who had purchased him from a pet store*, but never named him.


I think I seriously vomited in my mouth a little when I read that. Can you imagine selling MALINOIS puppies to unsuspecting idiots in a pet store who think the cute roly poly red puppies are adowwwable?! The end is nigh.


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## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

Ugh, yeah. Corsos and other mastiff-types are starting to rise here. I see a ton of the various types all of the time. Pitbulls seem to be dropping (only saw about five or six ads in the classifieds today, verses the usual fifteen). GSDs seem to be increasing, as wel, judging by what I'm seeing walking through Petsmart. Great Danes are always popular... And I remember a few years ago when it was Dalmatians and Dobermann that were fairly popular. Frou-frou designer dogs are, of course, always around, as are other little dogs. Only saw one 'Miniature Aussie.'

Carolina dogs seemed to be rising for a while; or at least, the amount dumped in the shelters was fairly high (my shelter had one they tried to call a Pharaoh Hound, LOL). Shar-pei, I've noticed more of... One or two ridgebacks... several boxers... and American Bulldogs galore.

Granted, I live next to Ft. Bragg, so soldiers are always bringing in different types of dogs (which they then breed), and then dumping them or moving, so my numbers could be skewed.

I had friends who had a Dutch Shepherd GIVEN to them at Petsmart when they were collecting donations for the shelter. They ended up rehoming her with a friend of theirs, because of her insane drives. Dog could chase a ball for hours.

I've only met two Malinois at Petsmart. One, I believe the lady was randomly given, and in order to manage his insane drives, she's working on doing HRD with him. The other was a pup that a woman told me her husband got from KNPV lines to be a PPD.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Dogs have always been disposable. I cannot think of a time that the local shelters have not been full.

San Antonio kills them before they even get to the shelter.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Tobias Wilkie said:


> So lately, I've been seeing an increase in the local classifieds with people selling GSDs from 'champion' working lines, German lines, etc., and dark sables, light sables, grey sables, red sables, etc. Prices usually about $300-500.
> ](*,)





> Granted, I live next to Ft. Bragg, so soldiers are always bringing in different types of dogs (which they then breed), and then dumping them or moving, so my numbers could be skewed.


I don't see that here on CL, and I'm by Ft Carson. Now I did get my male GSD from a soldier PCS'ing to Korea (dog handler no less) who couldn't bring him, but he isn't a puppy-puppy, he's 1.
Though, of course, we see a lot of dogs that "have to go" because "we're having a baby" or "we are going to PCS"...which to me, is bullshit, plain and simple. Then again, what the hell do I know, I only brought my dogs with me from Arizona to New York when we PCS'ed, and from NY to Colorado when we PCS'ed again...and only have 3 kids, 2 of which were born after we had dogs...Though I guess we should get rid of both the dogs now that we are PCS'ing to Germany and have a baby on the way...right...(<-- sarcasm)
But yeah, numbers are going to be skewed due to military, especially with the divorce rates and people just dumping their critters off when they move. It isn't hard to PCS with animals in the US, not at all...we threw ours in the truck with us and drove out, with 2 adults and 3 children. It was cramped that's for sure but it's not impossible.(I had a pitbull and a GSD at the time and I rent also, that's the tough part)
What pisses me off are the "I'm deploying" and have to get rid of the dog. There's a group that will place your dog in foster care until you return from a deployment, but people always want the easy way out.

end rant.


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## Rox Brummer (Jul 7, 2009)

The one we get here all the time is "yard not big enough". Did their yard shrink after they got the puppy? Did they think that Husky/GSD/Collie/wahtever puppy would stay that size? One person I know who gave away a Husky was berating the "breeder" who sold it them saying that she had said they would have to walk it, but it turned out (after the dog ate the garden) that she meant walk it EVERY DAY!!!! 
I believe there is a strong case for having to have a licence for certain breeds, obtainable on proving you are capable of managing it.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

if its from european lines it is the best dog you could ever have right?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

They have european line huskies ?


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## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

I've seen people give up a dog because it's too big, the wrong colour, too playful, gets out of their yard, doesn't get along with the new dog, new spouse doesn't like dogs, new baby, moving across town, dog nipped someone when it was injured, growled when the kid was climbing all over it, can't housebreak it in the two weeks they had it, pees in the house, chewed up the porch, etc. 

I remember reading somewhere about how a shelter took their previously bland white euthanasia room, and had their workers paint murals in it. They painted on the excuses they heard people give when giving up their pets, along with the words "I wish you heaven." I hear it boosted morale for the workers, especially the euthanasia techs (plus bright colours have an effect on people and animals psychologically).



The foster dog I just got back a few weeks ago? The people had it for over a year and a half. Reason for giving it up? "It sheds too much."

It's a beagle.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

.....family member all of a sudden develops allergy; divorce and neither wants the dog; got a new small puppy; cute stuffed bear looking GSD pup put in back yard, only fed but not handled and jumps for joy when someone actually gives it attention but now 8 mos later and at 80 lbs jumping is a problem. After 9 years of GSD rescue and hearing it all, I quickly got disgusted with the general public. Main problem I saw was that the dogs were smarter than the owners.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Denise Gatlin said:


> .....family member all of a sudden develops allergy; divorce and neither wants the dog; got a new small puppy; cute stuffed bear looking GSD pup put in back yard, only fed but not handled and jumps for joy when someone actually gives it attention but now 8 mos later and at 80 lbs jumping is a problem. After 9 years of GSD rescue and hearing it all, I quickly got disgusted with the general public. Main problem I saw was that the dogs were smarter than the owners.


Dogs are always smarter than there owners when it comes to the general public and most handlers, very rarely is it the other way around. Just like morons calling and asking for a bad ass dog that has super drives and is a man eater. Then they get the dog and don't know how to live or control the SOB and the dog ends up tagging somebody. Owner / handler saying its not my fault - this dog is f---ing nutts. Guess what A-hole its your fault not the dogs. Same principals people.:-({|=


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Harry Keely said:


> Guess what A-hole its your fault not the dogs.


nonetheless, the dog pays the ultimate price, not the owners. owners rationalize it to death (literally).


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## Kirstyn Kerbo (Apr 3, 2010)

The winner in my book was a beautiful St. Bernard I saw at a shelter one time. I was with somebody else, and as we approached I noticed an owner surrender tag. Reason?

The dog got too big.

REALLY?!?! A freakin St. Bernard got too big? I was literally stunned at the sheer negligence and stupidity of that.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

It appears there are people still out there that don't get emotionally incapastitated by dogs, cats....even each other. I suppose if they did there would be that many more people with working dogs that don't work.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> It appears there are people still out there that don't get emotionally incapastitated by dogs, cats....even each other. I suppose if they did there would be that many more people with working dogs that don't work.


by "incapasitated" i'm thnking you may mean "incapacitated", ie, people that can get rid of a dog with no hard feelings. correct me if i'm wrong, ok, don?

IME, there are 2 extremes in pet-ownership (notice the "pet"): those that think their "baby" is a human and those that treat them as disposable goods. either extreme is ultimately bad for the animal in question. 

i have heard almost every "reason" in the book for taking an animal to a shelter/sale barn/what not, but mostly it boils down to ppl buying a "cute" baby, then being overwhelmed when said baby grows up, and the owner isn't willing to commit to the time involved in training.

we live in a throw-away society. 

what i cannot tolerate are those ppl that say they're moving and can't take the animal with them: no sympathy here, as i rented for 22 years, with big GSDx dogs, and guess what?? i NEVER had to "get rid of" a dog b/c i couldn't find a place to rent.

at any rate, my committment is to the animal--if i can't handle it, it either gets sold/rehomed to a person who can, or it's PTS (and i've only done PTS once in my lifetime).

it's always possible that i'm really weird, too.....:-\"


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

That's what I mean Anne, and y our right, it is a throw away society so why should anything be a surprise?
Actually I would guess that, many times there is mpore to the story and getting rid of an unwanted dog is usually better off for the dog. I think there was a post or two saying how lucky they were to get the dogs someone didn't want. People are taking horses out and getting rid of them because of the economy. I haven't read the want adds for years and really don't spend a lot of time worrying about what John Q Public is doing......I just got better things to do than check the want ads to see who isn't as good as I think I am.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> That's what I mean Anne, and y our right, it is a throw away society so why should anything be a surprise?
> Actually I would guess that, many times there is mpore to the story and getting rid of an unwanted dog is usually better off for the dog.


IDK, don, it's one of those things where (in my mind anyway), i ask the question "if you are NOT committed to the animal, why get it in the first place?" and it comes back to we live in that throw-away culture. 

in my mind, it would better off for the dog to be euthanized/culled at birth, than to have a year or so of "love" then be abandonded in a scary, strange place....why prolong the pain?

i hope i'm making sense here (haha); but i would rather cull a pup than set it up for "love" then "sorry, you're an inconvienence, so you have to 'go' ".


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## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

ann schnerre said:


> IDK, don, it's one of those things where (in my mind anyway), i ask the question "if you are NOT committed to the animal, why get it in the first place?" and it comes back to we live in that throw-away culture.
> 
> in my mind, it would better off for the dog to be euthanized/culled at birth, than to have a year or so of "love" then be abandonded in a scary, strange place....why prolong the pain?
> 
> i hope i'm making sense here (haha); but i would rather cull a pup than set it up for "love" then "sorry, you're an inconvienence, so you have to 'go' ".



I agree. But then, that comes back to responsible breeding and breeders who will take back their dogs if something doesn't work out. And not selling 'pet quality' pups to anyone with money. I don't know... if you don't have decent homes lined up for the pups, and the pups are 'pet quality' or have defects or whatever... just freaking cull them. I'm sick of seeing people save dogs that have birth defects that will make them 'special needs' animals for the rest of their lives.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Tobias Wilkie said:


> I agree. But then, that comes back to responsible breeding and breeders who will take back their dogs if something doesn't work out. And not selling 'pet quality' pups to anyone with money. I don't know... if you don't have decent homes lined up for the pups, and the pups are 'pet quality' or have defects or whatever... just freaking cull them. I'm sick of seeing people save dogs that have birth defects that will make them 'special needs' animals for the rest of their lives.


Tobias, hobbie breeders started all this responsible breeding stuff. They are also the ones that save the weak and problem dogs that, without intervention would not have survived. Saving the weak and impaired is not responsible breeding by any stretch of anyones imagination....not even theirs. Hobby/show breeders say responcible breeders keeo track of the pups they sell. Not true. I know a number of people with pedigree dogs from show lines, some of the best knowm breeders in the business. I asked them if the breeder kept in touch. They always say never heard from after I got the pup.

As far as taking pups back. I have but not normally. I will tell people about the dogs when they call here and I will help find it a home. I can't just bring a dog back here once they have been gone for a while It hyas nothing to do with responsible breeding anyway. I have 5 dogs bred right now. When I get calls I tell them to call back because I simply don't know how many of what will hit the ground. If I can't sell them, I will keep them or give them to someone that is involved in a venue I want the dogs proven in. One thing you may find interesting is that it is much easier to sell a dog than it is to get them to take it for free. I have placed two dogs on this forum. Might have some more. If you stop and take the time to look, hobby breeders live up to very little of what they preach.


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## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

Yeah. I can see not taking the dogs back completely, but helping to find them a home fulfills the same purpose, really: Making sure the dogs don't end up in shelters or in a mill.

I wouldn't want a breeder breathing down my neck after I bought the dog by 'keeping track' of its every move and accomplishments, what it eats, where it sleeps, what vaccines/vet care it receives, and my addresses and things like all of that, like I've seen some contracts contain. 

But I would like a breeder that wanted to know any info about the health issues of the dogs and let the buyers know of any genetic defects that popped up in other pups of that litter later on down the line. Just to say, "Hey, let me know if a vet says your dog has it so I can make sure not to repeat that breeding/figure out what went wrong/etc." I'd rather have a breeder who does that than one that doesn't but takes the dog back, and still continues breeding dogs with defects. (If that makes sense?)


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