# Tease pole Question



## Jaime Diaz (Oct 22, 2008)

I made two tease poles for my 4 month old male GSD. One of the poles has a tennis ball attached, and the other has a bite rag. My question is....are these used only for building drive or can I teach my puppy to fetch with the tennis ball teaser? I have been throwing the ball and moving it around. When he grabs a hold of it I call him and give him a treat when he comes to me.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

For fetching, if he does it without the pole, it would probably be easier for you, and less confusing for him. Fetching and teasing are fundamentally different. When the object is captured, you want to encourage "possessiveness" of it, by challenging just enough to make them work to keep it. He shouldn't be readily willing to give it up, without you telling him to, and when he does, his reward is a continuation of the cycle for "capture and keep."

I have a few different setups, and it's tricky to get the overall balance just right, between the length, strength and flexibility of the pole, the length, thickness and flexibility of the line, and the heft of the target object, and shape and size of the target for easy biting. Any modification of these factors can decrease or improve the workability of the tool.

If I could only have one flirt pole, my favorite is a long stiff horsewhip, with a foot or so of light weight material (usually polar fleece) for a rag. In the pic below, I used a "airless" bicycle inner tube that I drilled a hole through for the chord.

My personal opinion is, the tool doesn't "build" drive per se, but it's certainly useful for refining the reflexes and targeting skills within the limits of his natural aptitude. Also serving as a fun introductory method for challenging the dog, and sort of a bond-builder that increases his desire to interact with you.


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

I wouldn't use a tennis ball for anything; they damage the enamel on your dogs' teeth.


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## Jaime Diaz (Oct 22, 2008)

Daryl,

How do you get your pups to pull on the object? My pup shakes his head alot when he gets the bite rag.


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## Jaime Diaz (Oct 22, 2008)

Becky,

Thanks for the info....I am going to find a rubber ball to attach instead


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I didn't teach him to pull, he just likes to do it. I encourage him though, by challenging, then letting him gain the advantage. Kind of like if I were reeling a fish in, pulling up line slack when I let the stick foreward, then pulling stick back to create more slack to gather up. Let him go to prance around with his prize once in a while, accompanied by your verbal praise. 

When he gets good with the basics, you begin to challenge him more with difficult chasing, harder possession, and introduce distractions like light tapping on the ribs, waving your arm slowly overhead, and he learns it becomes a game of not letting go, until you tell him it's time (by your relaxing lack of resistance, and calm request).

If he does let go for any reason before asked (accident or over-relaxed grip), quickly resume the tease, but make the capture more difficult. If he realizes he has to work harder, he'll learn to hold tighter.

Use your voice alot when the challenge is on, for feedback..."good boy... yeah... you got it... alright... oh, you got me... you're a monster... help... he's eating me...) Excitement, exaggerated expressions, keep it a fun and interesting game.

There's alot of room to advance and diverge from these simple routines, but that's a good start. Don't ask for too much too soon, carefully consider what he's prepared for.

In substitute for a ball, I like the "baby" kong. It's a little heavy, but already has a hole for the rope, a better shape for the bite, and you can additionally add a cloth strip "for flair" out the bottom. They can snag the cloth and then regrip for the kong portion. I've got one that I put a "reaction ball" (pic below) on too, but I had to drill a hole through it. Good size for young puppies, though. I just noticed about a week ago that Kongs come in this shape now, too.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jaime - search "counter" or "countering" or pick up the Leerburg Bite Training Puppies and Drive, Grip and Focus DVD's


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Becky Shilling said:


> I wouldn't use a tennis ball for anything; they damage the enamel on your dogs' teeth.


Hi Becky,
I have always heard that tennis balls use a type of glue that reacts with the saliva from the dog and causes the enamel to break down on their teeth.
When I was working as a co-owner of a major K-9 equipment company I used to repeat this to everyone in hopes of sellling them a Kong ball or rubber ball on a string. 
The reality is I have used tennis balls with all of my own puppies for the last 20 years to start them off in drive building, and I have never had any dog suffer from any tooth problems related to enamel damage.
I usually switch them to PVC after they have their adult teeth (the stronger dogs at least because it is much easier to take a slick pvc pipe from them, and most of my customers want to see crazy possesiveness so I dont teach the dog to out if he is going to be sold)
My question is this: have you ever noticed any problems with teeth from using tennis balls yourself?
My uncle has a 10 year old Black Lab that I have never seen without a tennis ball in his mouth for the last 9 1/2 years. He eats a BARF diet and his teeth are still bright white and in perfect condition.
I am not trying to start any debate here......just curious if you have seen problems with the use of tennis balls, or if someone (maybe me, LOL) told you that it causes problems.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Jaime Diaz said:


> Becky,
> 
> Thanks for the info....I am going to find a rubber ball to attach instead


How about a tug instead? Easier to target for the pup without biting the rope and easier for the handler to tug to develop grip. If you are going to use a ball make sure it is large enough not to be swallowed or cause an airway obstruction if the rope breaks.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think if the dog chews on them there are problems, with the abrasiveness of the cover.

The dogs that just carry them around seem to do OK. I just use something else because the dogs are too crazy with the tennis balls for me.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Tennis balls are a pain to work with. My dog doesn't play two toys (if he outs and I throw another same type of toy, unless I trick him, he just stares at the one he's given me), and if he thinks he'll lose something he locks down on it. He came to me from the shelter, already obsessed with tennis balls. I went with it, and imprinted him with narcotic odors on tennis balls. I like things that I can play with that stick OUT of his mouth (have tugged with him holding the ball inside his mouth, tricky game that is). Plus he popped them right away. Annoyed the trainer I learned from, too.[-X 

I've wondered about the tooth enamel tennis ball issue. I assume it's not good for their teeth, but never knew if the saliva-glue mix was the reason...


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

When I met my wife. She had an old catahoula. who played with a tennis and nothing else. at 9 the dogs teeth were worn down almost to the gums. Tooth enamel does not hold up well to scrubbing motion and friction. Even my dentist can tell when I brush my teeth to hard.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Chad Byerly said:


> Tennis balls are a pain to work with. My dog doesn't play two toys (if he outs and I throw another same type of toy, unless I trick him, he just stares at the one he's given me), and if he thinks he'll lose something he locks down on it. He came to me from the shelter, already obsessed with tennis balls. I went with it, and imprinted him with narcotic odors on tennis balls. I like things that I can play with that stick OUT of his mouth (have tugged with him holding the ball inside his mouth, tricky game that is). Plus he popped them right away. Annoyed the trainer I learned from, too.[-X
> 
> I've wondered about the tooth enamel tennis ball issue. I assume it's not good for their teeth, but never knew if the saliva-glue mix was the reason...


Hi Chad,
when you were at our seminar did you get a chance to see the way we use the flirt pole with a tennis ball tied to it to build drive in the puppies we had staked out? I use a tennis ball for that because it is lighter and I can creat more active movement with it than a heavy rubber ball on the flirt pole.I am talking about baby puppies from 5 weeks to 16 weeks, so a tennis ball is easier to grip and crush, and if I mistakenly hit one in the head it hurts less than a hard rubber ball. I build drive for all objects, not just a ball that same way. We use "Jerry cans", tug toys, rags, metal keys, pvc, copper pipes, all on a flirt pole and they are crazy for all of those objects the same as a ball.
By the time they get their adult teeth they are seldom worked with a tennis ball after that, because they break them and pull the strings that I tied them with out, but for babies I personally like them when building drive from the pole.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Mike, 
Yes, I saw some of that in the morning. And your description makes sense for why you like them for puppies.

My tiny rant was more about venting my personal annoyance with tennis balls with my dog, aside from even whether they are bad for teeth. I also understand why they are helpful for some detection training (that furry cover holds a good amount of odor, you just have to proof against plain tennis balls), but I think tennis balls are annoying and maybe bad for enamel. But when we come across other tennis balls, or someone is either playing with one nearby or another dog might have one, I grab one and keep him focused on "our" tennis ball. 

Oh, my dog's OCD tendencies - I also started training him with a laser light a couple years ago for directed retrieves and send outs. And I thought it would make a great tool for targeting. He learned what I meant very quickly, but also after training he started looking for that light as if I'd whizzed the light around as the package recommends (for driving cats and dogs crazy). I had only lined him up either from left or right heel or from between my legs, clicked on the laser on where I wanted him to go, and then sent him... I had to stop right after I started, because it was clear he'd be a light/shadow chaser in a minute.

This is even more off topic, so I'll stop here. :-#


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I use the pole to put distance from my hand. I also use it for the rag and not the ball. Ball on a 10' line is OK. Bite work targeting is something I would rather do without the stick as it may cause "issues" and issues I don't need.


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