# Working Bullmastiffs?



## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Are there any kennels that specialize in a working type Bullmastiff because when I attended the Bullmastiff nationals, asking about Schutzhund or ring sports was like blasphemy... Anybody seen any successful bullmastiffs?


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

**** Off already.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Even if they could work (I've only ever seen conformation bullmastiffs, not even agility, rally, etc ones), the drool factor is a big turn off. =;


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> **** Off already.


I can't add anything more blunt than that!

This dude just doesn't seem to "GET IT".


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I can't add anything more blunt than that!
> 
> This dude just doesn't seem to "GET IT".


 
So Im trying to move on and learn something new.... Am I now un welcomed here? Even if you dont like bullies, I would never ask you to leave an American Bully forum. To each his own though I guess.


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle (Dec 31, 2009)

I suggest taking a few days off bud...


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Jonathan Hoffnagle said:


> I suggest taking a few days off bud...



So i chose to stop talking about other things, but I see I am still not welcome


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Gregory,
I don't necessarily agree with some of the tactics your being met with here but you have to remember this is a working dog forum. The breed your discussing have very little chance of having any working dogs left in them. It would be a crap shoot at best.
Those short squat bullies in particular are an attempt to develope a particular look and working ability is next to nothing if anything at all.
Not a dig, just an honest opinion by anyone that has been around working dogs for a while.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Gregory,
> I don't necessarily agree with some of the tactics your being met with here but you have to remember this is a working dog forum. The breed your discussing have very little chance of having any working dogs left in them. It would be a crap shoot at best.
> Those short squat bullies in particular are an attempt to develope a particular look and working ability is next to nothing if anything at all.
> Not a dig, just an honest opinion by anyone that has been around working dogs for a while.



I respect your opinion. Just know that my whole reasoning for this board was to learn more about Dutch Shepherds, Rotts and Mals because I really want to get into working dogs. I know shorter is not better which is why I actually like breeding a 18-20 inch dog... But I actually dont want to do protection work with bullies I was jus saying that that is the background I came in here with because it was a members bio intro page.. Im just trying to move past it now


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gregory Escolta said:


> my whole reasoning for this board was to learn more about Dutch Shepherds, Rotts and Mals because I really want to get into working dogs.



So you've never had a real working dog. Start with a GSD and then move on to something else after you have more experience. 

You're not ready for Mal, Dutchie or a working rottweiler.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> So you've never had a real working dog. Start with a GSD and then move on to something else after you have more experience.
> 
> You're not ready for Mal, Dutchie or a working rottweiler.



What would you suggest for starting? What breeders offer a suitable dog for me?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gregory Escolta said:


> What would you suggest for starting? What breeders offer a suitable dog for me?



I don't know you and the fact that you don't know what you want means you're not ready for anything.

Do you have a dog now? Work with that. Get some experience. I've already suggested that you start with a German Shepherd stay away from everything else. No decent working dog breeder is going to sell a good dog to a guy like you.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> I don't know you and the fact that you don't know what you want means you're not ready for anything.
> 
> Do you have a dog now? Work with that. Get some experience. I've already suggested that you start with a German Shepherd stay away from everything else. No decent working dog breeder is going to sell a good dog to a guy like you.


I own a Bullmastiff and an American bully? And what do you mean a guy like me? I know that I want a working rottweiler which is why I created this post. You suggested GSD's so I want to know what progeny I should start looking at. I am familiar with a few working rottweiler kennels and like what I see, however I do not know about GSD'd because they were never my interest.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gregory Escolta said:


> I own a Bullmastiff and an American bully? And what do you mean a guy like me? I know that I want a working rottweiler which is why I created this post. You suggested GSD's so I want to know what progeny I should start looking at. I am familiar with a few working rottweiler kennels and like what I see, however I do not know about GSD'd because they were never my interest.



you know nothing about working rotts nor working dogs in general.

You want a working dog based on looks? Frankly, that's dumb. You're a guy who obviously doesn't know how to train a dog so what makes you think you can handle a working class dog? 

I don't know about GSD breeders, I do know them as a breed vs other dogs and for a beginner a GSD is best because you can be fairly stupid and still get the dog to work. Mals and Rotts are pretty sensitive and a guy like you is only going to screw it up. 

What do you own now?


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> you know nothing about working rotts nor working dogs in general.
> 
> You want a working dog based on looks? Frankly, that's dumb. You're a guy who obviously doesn't know how to train a dog so what makes you think you can handle a working class dog?
> 
> ...


It is because I dont know about working dogs that I am here... Can I not have both the working dog and the working dog and the looks too? You need a xanax or something because you are acting very grumpy


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Chris M are you forgetting to take your meds again? 

Gregory,

Since you already have two dogs, you can start by training what you have. Start doing some obedience work. Go visit some local clubs, watch the different dogs work, talk to lots of people (with an open mind) and after a year or so... you'll start to learn what you like or dislike in a dog. Usually when you reach this point, someone in the club will help you find a good dog.

Who knows... maybe after visiting some clubs you might decide that protection sports/trainning isn't for you. It take lots and lots of dedication and before TDs and club members shell out the time they want to know that you are just as commited.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Gregory Escolta said:


> It is because I dont know about working dogs that I am here... Can I not have both the working dog and the working dog and the looks too? You need a xanax or something because you are acting very grumpy


Chris is a temperamental musician. You gotta catch him in the right mood! Latter in the day is better. Musicians are night people. Gotta teach this kid everything.:lol:


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Yes there are working BM out there. Don't think you'll find them in the US though. Like a lot of heavier bull breeds they tend to be lower in prey with exceptions. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw5VQ4q8d4g


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Meng Xiong said:


> Chris M are you forgetting to take your meds again?
> 
> Gregory,
> 
> ...


Thanks for that! I have been looking for clubs in the Bay Area and have emailed a few waiting on responses... Your an American Bulldog man correct?



Lee H Sternberg said:


> Chris is a temperamental musician. You gotta catch him in the right mood! Latter in the day is better. Musicians are night people. Gotta teach this kid everything.:lol:


LOL! I completely understand... I am a night owl too and coincidentally a musician! Good talkin to ya Lee



James Degale said:


> Yes there are working BM out there. Don't think you'll find them in the US though. Like a lot of heavier bull breeds they tend to be lower in prey with exceptions.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw5VQ4q8d4g


Im going to check out that video as we speak... Thank you!


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle (Dec 31, 2009)

Greg... I think we all get that you are here to learn. How about you use the search function and try and do some reading? You will learn much more that way. You have almost triple the amount of posts as I do and you have been a member for what, 4 days? Ask the questions when after you can't find them elsewhere.


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Gregory Escolta said:


> Thanks for that! I have been looking for clubs in the Bay Area and have emailed a few waiting on responses... Your an American Bulldog man correct?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I own an American Bulldog and basicly got him before I really knew about the sports. I don't think i'll ever buy another AB again. He happens to be a great house dog, but thats about it.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I think the closest thing to a working mastiff on this board would be Nicole's Dogue de Bordeau... maybe she can advise you further on what you're up against if you really want to try.

Adding my own bit of advice, having read enough of your 'I just want to learn and how come everyone is so mean to me? posts. When I was I child my father imparted this bit of wisdom to my brother and I when we had a little too much to talk about. _Better to be thought a fool - than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. _

You might want to consider it.


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle (Dec 31, 2009)

_Better to be thought a fool - than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. _

You might want to consider it.


Well put.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

leslie cassian said:


> I think the closest thing to a working mastiff on this board would be Nicole's Dogue de Bordeau... maybe she can advise you further on what you're up against if you really want to try.
> 
> Adding my own bit of advice, having read enough of your 'I just want to learn and how come everyone is so mean to me? posts. When I was I child my father imparted this bit of wisdom to my brother and I when we had a little too much to talk about. _Better to be thought a fool - than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. _
> 
> You might want to consider it.


 
Love DDB's... Look, I am here to learn, but I dnt care who it is or what subject its on, if someone wants a fight, they gon get it with me. Just cuz I am not a push over doesnt mean that I am not here to learn... When you say open your mouth you are probably talking about useless BS being said... Go read wat I have said and tell me if I have been out of line... I could care less if someones mean, thats not the point. The point is I was trying to move in a more positive direction.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Greg, the dog I have now is 75% DDB 25% BM. The DDB in her were down off some OEM. By that I do mean crossed out onto OEM about a decade and a half ago. The BM brought in a few physical characteristics that were needed to clean up some physical limitations which negatively detracted from the working ability but that's as far as it went. The dog of mine that Leslie mentioned was a gift and she is my pet but physically she's done just about everything asked of her except man work.

I've had a number of reasonable DDB working prospects, some obviously better than others. It was the modicum of success I had with those dogs that made me willing to give the breed another try before moving on (health was the set back in the previous 4 I worked with). The capability and athleticism is there to make a go of it but it just so happens that the combination I got this time around didn't provide me with the right balance to work with in SchH.

The BM is really not a viable breed to work with and of the two a DDB would be a better choice especially if you cared to invest the time to find a good prospect. Frankly, I wouldn't waste my time if you don't have a vested interest in the breed. I did and I wanted the challenge. I got it but now am ready to move on to something that will provide a different challenge. Over the last 15 years I did a lot of stuff with my dogs people said either said they couldn't do, wouldn't do, or if done with I'd ruin them. If nothing else came of my time in the breed, it was a worthwhile journey to see how far I could take the dogs I had.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Nicole Stark said:


> Greg, the dog I have now is 75% DDB 25% BM. The DDB in her were down off some OEM. By that I do mean crossed out onto OEM about a decade and a half ago. The BM brought in a few physical characteristics that were needed to clean up some physical limitations which negatively detracted from the working ability but that's as far as it went. The dog of mine that Leslie mentioned was a gift and she is my pet but physically she's done just about everything asked of her except man work.
> 
> I've had a number of reasonable DDB working prospects, some obviously better than others. It was the modicum of success I had with those dogs that made me willing to give the breed another try before moving on (health was the set back in the previous 4 I worked with). The capability and athleticism is there to make a go of it but it just so happens that the combination I got this time around didn't provide me with the right balance to work with in SchH.
> 
> The BM is really not a viable breed to work with and of the two a DDB would be a better choice especially if you cared to invest the time to find a good prospect. Frankly, I wouldn't waste my time if you don't have a vested interest in the breed. I did and I wanted the challenge. I got it but now am ready to move on to something that will provide a different challenge. Over the last 15 years I did a lot of stuff with my dogs people said either said they couldn't do, wouldn't do, or if done with I'd ruin them. If nothing else came of my time in the breed, it was a worthwhile journey to see how far I could take the dogs I had.


Your response means a lot to me! My first dog is a bullmastiff and I just have so much love for the breed that I guess you can call it a vested interest. I feel I need to learn everything out about sport and PPD work before I really try to work w/ BM's... Do you have any pix or video of your dogs?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I totally think you should go with a Rott. That is the dog for you. The best Rotts for work are really really dominant. The other thing is to get an older male if you can, over two years, so you don't have to deal to much with the puppy stage.

Rotts are very rarely dog aggressive, so you should have no problem letting them play together alone in the backyard.

Rotts also need heavier equipment for Sch and stuff, so be sure to find a good supplier. Mike Ellis is in your area, and he can help you out with your new Adult Rott in Sch. He has a school right about where you are at.









Remember when I used to run these little fuktards off this board ?? LOL
You guys totally suck at it.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Gregory Escolta said:


> Do you have any pix or video of your dogs?


Sure, plenty of them. Send me an email if you are interested in something specific. ([email protected]) Otherwise you can check out a small sample of the dogs I have had through the photo gallery within the forum.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I totally think you should go with a Rott. That is the dog for you. The best Rotts for work are really really dominant. The other thing is to get an older male if you can, over two years, so you don't have to deal to much with the puppy stage.
> 
> Rotts are very rarely dog aggressive, so you should have no problem letting them play together alone in the backyard.
> 
> ...


Im a little fuktard? HAHAHA! You funny, i am not going to even get into you with it cuz Ill make you cry like a lil b-i-t-c-h


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Gregory Escolta said:


> Im a little fuktard? HAHAHA! You funny, i am not going to even get into you with it cuz Ill make you cry like a lil b-i-t-c-h


Is this kid serious? 

Hey Gregory, why don't you work the bullmastiff you currently own in some venue? If you do then your problem is solved. You'll have a 'working' bullmastiff.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

James Lechernich said:


> Is this kid serious?
> 
> Hey Gregory, why don't you work the bullmastiff you currently own in some venue? If you do then your problem is solved. You'll have a 'working' bullmastiff.


Am I serious?? HMMMM lets c.. this dude obviously has a problem so ill face it. What its okay for him to confront me, but if I stand up for myself Im the bad guy? I dont know where your from, but where Im from if they swing, you swing back.

As for my BM... Id love to work him, but he has no drive and is a lazy bastard.. Only thing hes good for is eating food and making big dumps. But he is my first dog and i love him to death so its all good...


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Let me ask this... Why is it that if I stand up for myself when I am being attacked, bullied or insulted that everyone looks at me like I'm the bad guy?


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Gregory Escolta said:


> Am I serious?? HMMMM lets c.. this dude obviously has a problem so ill face it. What its okay for him to confront me, but if I stand up for myself Im the bad guy? I dont know where your from, but where Im from if they swing, you swing back.


Again with the muttering nonsense? Really?? You're writing cheques your ass cant cash.



Gregory Escolta said:


> As for my BM... Id love to work him, but he has no drive and is a lazy bastard.. Only thing hes good for is eating food and making big dumps. But he is my first dog and i love him to death so its all good...


Dogs tend to be a reflection of their handlers. But even if your dog isn't a suitable guardian or protection sport prospect there remains A LOT of other venues in which to train and compete. How 'bout AKC obedience and tracking??


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

James Lechernich said:


> Again with the muttering nonsense? Really?? You're writing cheques your ass cant cash.
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs tend to be a reflection of their handlers. But even if your dog isn't a suitable guardian or protection sport prospect there remains A LOT of other venues in which to train and compete. How 'bout AKC obedience and tracking??


And I am muttering nonsense? hmmm... better check that^

you must hate your life because all you want to do is start fight with me over the computer... Take it somewhere else... Hopefully that isn't to "muttery" for you


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Gregory Escolta said:


> And I am muttering nonsense? hmmm... better check that^
> 
> you must hate your life because all you want to do is start fight with me over the computer... Take it somewhere else... Hopefully that isn't to "muttery" for you


So what you're really trying to say is that you're gonna do absolutely nothing with your dog(s) until you find a 'working' kennel willing to sell you a pup so you can breed, right? Standard abominable pig-dog procedure!!


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

James Lechernich said:


> So what you're really trying to say is that you're gonna do absolutely nothing with your dog(s) until you find a 'working' kennel willing to sell you a pup so you can breed, right? Standard abominable pig-dog procedure!!



Just because I dont want to do different trials doesnt mean i dont "work" my dogs... My dogs are involved in everything i do except school.. They go to work with me, to the stores that they can go in and get plenty of excercise, but these are pets. I dont breed bullmastiffs, i own one. My bully female works in the show ring, but gets plenty of excercise. Is it wront that pet owners arent doing different events too? like 1% of dog owners actually get into doing things with there dogs other than taking them on walks. Im a newcomer to the working aspect.... Sorry I dont come from a family of working dog men, I did not have that luxury. But I am here diligently trying to learn... You can be a part of the problem or the solution...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

First lesson:



Gregory Escolta said:


> My bully female works in the show ring


Oxymoron.


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Gregory Escolta said:


> Just because I dont want to do different trials doesnt mean i dont "work" my dogs... My dogs are involved in everything i do except school.. They go to work with me, to the stores that they can go in and get plenty of excercise, but these are pets. I dont breed bullmastiffs, i own one. My bully female works in the show ring, but gets plenty of excercise. Is it wront that pet owners arent doing different events too? like 1% of dog owners actually get into doing things with there dogs other than taking them on walks. Im a newcomer to the working aspect.... Sorry I dont come from a family of working dog men, I did not have that luxury. But I am here diligently trying to learn... You can be a part of the problem or the solution...


Don't breed bullmastiffs, huh? Never done a test breeding with your abominable pig-dog bitch?? Nevermind. No need to answer...

If you don't want to 'do different trials' then why are you here? Put some titles on the dogs your currently own before you rush out to buy a 'working' dog. Save yourself from the liability of owning a dog you can't handle. 

AKC obedience and tracking titles are a good start, imo.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

James Lechernich said:


> Don't breed bullmastiffs, huh? Never done a test breeding with your abominable pig-dog bitch?? Nevermind. No need to answer...
> 
> If you don't want to 'do different trials' then why are you here? Put some titles on the dogs your currently own before you rush out to buy a 'working' dog. Save yourself from the liability of owning a dog you can't handle.
> 
> AKC obedience and tracking titles are a good start, imo.


 
Look, if your here to judge me, I dont even want to bother. Dont sit here and talk negatively about my dogs, as I have not talked negatively about yours. You dont like that all dogs arent "worked" then go to petsmart and tell every dog owner to put there dog under. Some people want pets, at the time I bought the dogs I currently own, that was what I wanted, a pet. Now that I have been engulfed in other types of dogs I want to learn about working dogs. I am not out looking for a new dog to buy yet... Actually it will be a long time until I purchase a new dog, but I want to learn as much about it while I can so when I do get a dog that I will work, I will be ready mentally to handle them


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Gregory Escolta said:


> Look, if your here to judge me, I dont even want to bother. Dont sit here and talk negatively about my dogs, as I have not talked negatively about yours. *You dont like that all dogs arent "worked" then go to petsmart and tell every dog owner to put there dog under*. Some people want pets, at the time I bought the dogs I currently own, that was what I wanted, a pet. Now that I have been engulfed in other types of dogs I want to learn about working dogs. I am not out looking for a new dog to buy yet... Actually it will be a long time until I purchase a new dog, but I want to learn as much about it while I can so when I do get a dog that I will work, I will be ready mentally to handle them













This is a WORKING dog forum!! If you're not looking to buy(breed) a working dog yet, then why are you here? Do something, anything, with the dogs you currently own before you think about a 'working' dog.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

James Lechernich said:


> This is a WORKING dog forum!! If you're not looking to buy(breed) a working dog yet, then why are you here? Do something, anything, with the dogs you currently own before you think about a 'working' dog.


 
I will be going to working clubs TO LEARN! Working dogs b4 I know anything about it is STUPID! Thats like jumping in the water before you know how to swim!


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Gregory Escolta said:


> I will be going to working clubs TO LEARN! Working dogs b4 I know anything about it is STUPID! Thats like jumping in the water before you know how to swim!


Plan on going to clubs without your dog(s)? Brilliant!! ](*,)

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that you learn by doing. An obedience/tracking club will be more than capable of holding your hand throughout the learning process as long as you're willing to put in the time. And by that I mean, actually training your dogs!


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

James Lechernich said:


> Plan on going to clubs without your dog(s)? Brilliant!! ](*,)
> 
> Doesn't take a rockect scientist to understand that you learn by doing. An obedience/tracking club will be more than capable of holding your hand throughout the learning process as long as you're willing to put in the time. And by that I mean, actually training your dogs!


 
Look, I plan on doing what I can... The club actually asked me to come out the first time to not bring my dogs.... TO LEARN THE ROPES! Look man, I know you know your stuf... Im a young buck trying to learn, and having confrontation in the learning process doesnt help. So check it out, I plan on utilizing my dogs to the best of thier abilities... Im tired of arguing with people, so I will say i am plannin on taking my current dogs out. Peace and love... Im drama free


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Listen Gregory, do you have an AKC CGC on either of your dogs? There's where I would start as responsible dog owner.

http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/

You can train on your own if you know basic obedience or with others. If either your bull mastiff or American bully is calm, people oriented, friendly, and easy going, you might try therapy work. The AKC CGC is the first step for most therapy dog clubs before they allow visitation. Therapy work is not just going out to nursing homes or hospitals, but that can be part of it. Like I give bite prevention classes for kids with my certified Rottweiler, which I've also done with the Latino community in town with an after school program. There's other programs out there as well. I'm the head trainer for our vet school's therapy dog club and your dog really has to be pretty much bombproof, but it is really rewarding.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Listen Gregory, do you have an AKC CGC on either of your dogs? There's where I would start as responsible dog owner.
> 
> http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/
> 
> You can train on your own if you know basic obedience or with others. If either your bull mastiff or American bully is calm, people oriented, friendly, and easy going, you might try therapy work. The AKC CGC is the first step for most therapy dog clubs before they allow visitation. Therapy work is not just going out to nursing homes or hospitals, but that can be part of it. Like I give bite prevention classes for kids with my certified Rottweiler, which I've also done with the Latino community in town with an after school program. There's other programs out there as well. I'm the head trainer for our vet school's therapy dog club and your dog really has to be pretty much bombproof, but it is really rewarding.


 
Thank you for giving advise in a respectful manner... I will look into all of that


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