# recovery



## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Working dogs in the south in the summer sun, looking for thoughts / opinions on electrolyte replenishments or other recovery aides. Or even if they are not worth the money spent.

Thanks,
T


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

I'd be interested in knowing as well if there's anything out there that would actually help.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I went to a 3 day conditioning the canine athlete seminar about a year and a half ago. Dr. John Sherman of VetHab said that people tend to get really into what products to use (just like in human sports) when it is actually the warm up and the cool down that are the most important. So in other words, don't take your dog from the crate straight out onto the training field, work them hard, and put them back, as that's how injuries happen (even though that's how most people in agility and protection sport have their dogs set up). He said spend about 8-15 minutes doing stuff like walking and gaiting them on a long line or retrieve games where the dog is in walk, trot, canter, and gallop to warm those muscles up. Weaving through your legs is a good stretching activity, as sitting pretty, play bow, and taking a treat from their hip. And give the dog a good cool down before allowing it to drink a ton of water. I'm as guilty as anyone about not doing this (especially since I'm having to travel 45+ minutes for both herding and PSA training), so I'm going to have to start working on this as it gets hotter. O

I looked through my notes on the presentation and I can't honestly remember if he recommended (or didn't recommend) a particular product or type of products, but I did make a note that you can give a small amount of food after to bring the blood sugar back up if it was depleted. Keeping well hydrated in general by having water available was, of course, recommended.


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

Pedialyte works great... 1 cup in the morning on the days he is going to work hard... You can get it at any drug / grocery store and wal-mart... in the baby section. I got this info from "The Pit Bull Bible" by, John Koerner. It is a great book for any serious dog breeder / owner based on years of experience with working dogs. http://www.johnkoerner.org/PitBullBible/
http://www.johnkoerner.org/PitBullBible/toc.html


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

excellent thanks, that is what Im looking for. The dog specific formulas are pretty costly. I was wondering if I could just you pedialyte or gatorade of if there was some magic potion in the dog ones :smile:

t


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

thank you also Maren........ got the cool down, need to figure out the warm up.....

t


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

He had us practice a sample warm up routine. So like if you're the next person in line to work in protection, go get your dog out of the crate about 10 minutes before hand, potty them, then put them on a long line (20-30 feet is plenty) and just go from a fast walk to trot to canter and back down again, then work back up to a gallop. If you can figure out how to lunge your dog on a long line like you can a horse, that'd be probably the easiest too. Play a few rounds of retrieve games with them as well so they warm up a bit more explosively once they've been gaited a bit. Once you've got the dog warm and breathing a bit harder, you can do the stretches I suggested (weave through legs, sit pretty, etc), then you can put on their protection equipment and get ready for their session. Obviously you don't want to tire them out, but just to get their heart rate up and muscles warmed and stretched.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

thats not exactly what I meant but thank you again :-D


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sorry, what did you mean? I'm doing a literature search and review on this topic right now (I'm bored and I love sports medicine), so I'll do my best to help.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

not supposed to use gatorade as it is carbonated, use powerade instead, but from what i know about sports dogs do not need this like people do


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

I just meant that I battle my dog prior to protection work once it has started and if I take him out even without a 'warm up" he will burn himself up so I usually go out cold. He wont eat, pee, drink prior..... although we have been working on calming and quick ob/ focus/ refocus......that is workin ok because he thinks his reward is "its his turn" but he still comes out hotter than I would like. 

Gatorade is carbonated and powerade is not??? hmmm learn something new every day.

t


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm not exactly sure what exactly you mean by battling him, but you may be able to have him come out a little calmer if you go up to the crate to let him out, walk him for a few minutes, then go put him back up again. Do this several times without bringing him out onto the field or putting on his agitation collar/harness. So in other words, don't take him out only to work him if he's getting too excited and using up too much energy just by getting himself too keyed up. 

On the science side of things, I just got done reading an article about agility dogs and hydration and they didn't seem to suggest that a dog would need anything additional besides just regular water being available. The blood chemistries of the dogs before, right after, and during recovery of the runs were different, but the authors seemed to think it was because the spleen contracts to supply extra red blood cells, not necessarily because a dog loses hydration after a 100 second course run. 

Most of the other studies have been done on racing greyhounds and sled dogs (along with endurance horse rides and Thoroughbred racing horses), which are not really too close to the activities in Schutzhund obedience or protection in terms of either activity or duration. I'd suspect if you had field trial dogs where they do multiple day trials or sled dogs, it'd be a much bigger issue to keep them hydrated. I understand some ringsport routines can last quite some time, but the way Schutzhund is structured with obedience, tracking, and protection being 3 separate things with breaks in between, it's probably not going to really matter.

PS: since when is Gatorade carbonated?


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

my vet told me not to use gatorade, I am sure they said carbonated, but maybe i am wrong, there is something in it not good for dogs , powerade does not have, 
that was what the vet said , I am just repeating it 
and followed the instructions


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

looks like it used to be 
>>>>Royal Crown Cola licensed a carbonated version of Gatorade but pulled the plug in the early 1970s


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Wow, that's wild. Wasn't alive back then. :lol: Did it taste more like soda, I wonder? Had a thought though...dogs cool themselves by panting and horses and humans cool themselves by sweating. So not sure how much electrolyte loss they actually have with exertion. Diarrhea and vomiting would be a problem though since we know that prolonged episodes of either throw off the electrolyte balance. Will be something to look up...


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

My understanding was that dogs don't need electrolyted beverages after workouts really. They do not sweat nearly as much as people and so therefore don't really need to replace them to such a degree. Its probably the sugar/carbs in the sports drinks that benefits them most. A quick sugar fix for "quick energy" replacement. Latest literature or studies suggest higher fat content in the diet for working in the heat as it assists with building/fortifying nerve fibers as well as helps with signal impulse transmission, and assists with handling heat stress. Or stress in general. Also, its just good practice to increase protein and fat for any endurance or persistent exercise or training. I try to get my dogs out early before the intense heat hours of mid-day and afternoon. I also bring a cool gallon bottle of water along with a collapsible bowl. This way dogs can drink and if necessary be cooled with the water. I did try a product called k9 Go Dog or something to that effect and it helped a bit. It has a big dose of carbs/sugar along with small amount of protein and fat. The sugar along with some of the other additives gives the dog that "edge." I make sure my dogs have eaten a nutrient rich food (usually high protein, high fat kibble), I bring a small bottle of honey, and make sure they are well hydrated with sufficient rest periods and I get pretty good results. I'd like to hear what works for others.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

go dog is what i was introduced to this weekend. Before I bought i wanted to do some research on it and alternatives and the idea in general.

the lady who had it swore by it.

thank you very much for all that info zakia

t


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## Angie Stark (Jul 10, 2009)

I am about halfway thru my first jar of GoDog and I just ordered more. My black, 100lb house dog is very heat sensitive and I've been training him for an AD this year. I can't say "OMG, it's a miracle!" but it does appear to help so Im going to continue to use it thru the AD. It seems that he's better during the run and recovers faster.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

here is a thread on SDC regarding post exercise glycogen replenishment - http://www.sleddogcentral.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5915 - if you do a search there there are lots of threads that might have some info about electrolytes and other pre-post exercise supplementation that might be of some interest.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

The trouble with human Gatorade and stuff is that has alot of sugar in it - which in dogs if you overdo that can equal squirts....


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

live in Central Florida now, but used to live in So.Florida- never used pedialyte or powerade during training-but definately need to watch your dog for signs of overheating....we have Malinois that will work until they drop- we had a kiddie pool available for the dogs to lie in after training-if they wanted to-but never just hosed off their backs, if we hosed them down, we cooled the underside and head of the dog-you definately have to watch-because in So.Florida, a few dogs have been sadly lost to heat stroke.


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## Linda Flemmer (Jun 16, 2009)

tracey delin said:


> Working dogs in the south in the summer sun, looking for thoughts / opinions on electrolyte replenishments or other recovery aides. Or even if they are not worth the money spent.
> 
> Thanks,
> T


Tracey,

Electrolytes are marketed intensively to humans and horses because both of these species loose tremendous amounts of 'lytes when they sweat. Dogs don't sweat - they pant to cool themselves. Panting does cause water loss, but not electrolyte loss.





Electrolytes are marketed for dogs for two reasons:

electrolyte replenishment in cases of diarrhea
As a way to part the well-meaning dog's owner from his hard earned cash. If I need electrolytes when I exercise, then my DOG must, too. Ca-CHING$$$ ](*,)
Here is an article where the use of electrolytes was studied in SAR dogs. The article sis available in full for free. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2385514...n-Urban-Search-and-Rescue-Dogs-A-Field-Study/

If a dog is overheated, offer him fresh, luke-warm water and get him in the shade. Cold water may induce vomiting. 

If the humidity is low enough to allow for evaporation (not likely in Florida), put some cool water on him. (Cold water will cause vaso-constriction at his skin surface & increase his core body temperature.) 

If the humidity is too high for effective evaprative cooling, you will be sweaty & not drying off either. In this case, wet the dog down with a good deal of water & scrape it off. Repeat until the water coming off of him is cool. Alternatively, use a hose & hose him off.

Veterinarians may consider using ice per rectum to rapidly cool a dog. You probably don't want to do this in the field because
A You might get bit
B You may induce heart arrhythmias that you are not prepared to treat.

Hope this helps.

Linda


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I went to a 3 day conditioning the canine athlete seminar about a year and a half ago. Dr. John Sherman of VetHab said that people tend to get really into what products to use (just like in human sports) when it is actually the warm up and the cool down that are the most important. So in other words, don't take your dog from the crate straight out onto the training field, work them hard, and put them back, as that's how injuries happen (even though that's how most people in agility and protection sport have their dogs set up). He said spend about 8-15 minutes doing stuff like walking and gaiting them on a long line or retrieve games where the dog is in walk, trot, canter, and gallop to warm those muscles up. Weaving through your legs is a good stretching activity, as sitting pretty, play bow, and taking a treat from their hip. And give the dog a good cool down before allowing it to drink a ton of water. I'm as guilty as anyone about not doing this (especially since I'm having to travel 45+ minutes for both herding and PSA training), so I'm going to have to start working on this as it gets hotter. O
> 
> I looked through my notes on the presentation and I can't honestly remember if he recommended (or didn't recommend) a particular product or type of products, but I did make a note that you can give a small amount of food after to bring the blood sugar back up if it was depleted. Keeping well hydrated in general by having water available was, of course, recommended.


This an awesome theory when you do not worry about how much drive your dog has.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I went to a 3 day conditioning the canine athlete seminar about a year and a half ago. Dr. John Sherman of VetHab said that people tend to get really into what products to use (just like in human sports) when it is actually the warm up and the cool down that are the most important. So in other words, don't take your dog from the crate straight out onto the training field, work them hard, and put them back, as that's how injuries happen (even though that's how most people in agility and protection sport have their dogs set up). He said spend about 8-15 minutes doing stuff like walking and gaiting them on a long line or retrieve games where the dog is in walk, trot, canter, and gallop to warm those muscles up. Weaving through your legs is a good stretching activity, as sitting pretty, play bow, and taking a treat from their hip. And give the dog a good cool down before allowing it to drink a ton of water. I'm as guilty as anyone about not doing this (especially since I'm having to travel 45+ minutes for both herding and PSA training), so I'm going to have to start working on this as it gets hotter. O
> 
> I looked through my notes on the presentation and I can't honestly remember if he recommended (or didn't recommend) a particular product or type of products, but I did make a note that you can give a small amount of food after to bring the blood sugar back up if it was depleted. Keeping well hydrated in general by having water available was, of course, recommended.


 
WOW warm ups and cool downs prevent injuries....Food after working out is good.....and keeping well hydrated is essential....Sounds like he is on the cutting edge.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

what we do in Phoenix is to have a huge stock tank with ice water. We work the dogs for a few minutes then we take them off the field and they jump into the water tank again. The dogs seem to love it, as most of them run to the tank and jump in. 

None of the guy in out group mess with electrolytes. Just lots of water and very short working increments. We also train at 5:30am but even then it could be 100F if we're in the middle of july or august.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

James Downey said:


> WOW warm ups and cool downs prevent injuries....Food after working out is good.....and keeping well hydrated is essential....Sounds like he is on the cutting edge.


Yeah, but how many people actually _do_ this with their dogs? Or keep a training log? Heck, how many human athletes want the newest diet supplement or gadget, but don't do the foundation work? The seminar was for working/performance dog people, not other vets that do sports medicine. Our seminars tend to be a bit more technical. ;-)


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the responses.
I'm pretty good on cooling downd heat strokes living in florida working bulldogs for 15 yrs I have to be! Wrote an article based on research on it as I had a scare and seen too many die in the breed from it so I wanted to be prepared and it definitely saved a trip to the vet on one scary occasion!

I was just wondering if these drinks were worth it and gave and added benefit. Not really sounding that way but after reading the go dog website they have me intrigued enough to try it out anyway lol. 
Thanks again!

T


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

I do NOT prescribe to use of neutraceuticals or 'lytes for fast recovery. My hunch is that the more fit your dog is, the faster the recovery. 
As far as over-heating, I will have my crates rigged with fans and when its super hot and humid (Yes will get to 100 in the summer and very muggy here in Minnesota) I will put a wet towel in the crate.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I use Go dog because I bought some to try, so now I bring some along for training. One thing is that it seems to be pretty yummy stuff, at least from my dogs' point of view, so they drink it, where they may not drink water. Lets me get some fluids into them before they work, so they start out hydrated. No idea if it makes any difference to their performance, but it makes me feel good and they like it.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Here is the article I wrote. Not saying there aren't holes in it or things haven't changed in more modern research but I think its still a fairly good synopsis.
I had a dog in a bad condition, couldn't stand up, dizzy etc followed the steps...quick dip, hose to the blood vessels, running fan and saved a trip to the vet...so I do think the research and methods have some value...

http://kiwsabs.com/articles/articles_heat.htm


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