# Training goals for a 9 Month Female GSD



## Martin Espericueta

*Training goals for a 9 Month Female GSD*

Hello All,

Just a quick History: I have a 9 month old female GSD, which I've had 
since she was 9 weeks old. When Sable was 5 months, I took her to get 
evaluated at a SchH club by Gregg Tawney. 

She was concidered "ok" by him, not going to win any big SchH 
competitions, but just had "ok" prey drive. Again, she was just 5 months at 
the time, and Gregg told me to really work w/her on building drive (and focus).

Her temperment is fine. She's beginning to bark at noises outside at night.
I like this, as I would really like her as more of a deterent than PPD. I just 
don't think she has the genes. But as a sports dog, I want to do SchH with 
her. 

She's a "soft" dog, althought I don't correct her much, just only for bad manners. 

She recently has begun to pee when I walk up to her, after a bit of time 
away from her. I think my sons may have been picking on her. I've never 
caught them, but have a feeling. That has stopped (as far as I can tell, 
after telling them, "LEAVE MY DOG ALONE!!!"), but now she kind of cowers 
- just sometimes, not all the time - when I aproach her.

So, now that I've bored you all w/her history  I'm trying to build up her 
confidence (again  ) and her OB.

What should I be concentrating on right now? Her *sitz/platz*
are great, but her *heir* has diminished, I feel, due to the issue 
above (acting scared). She's 100% with her *heir* when I'm all alone 
w/her, and 75% w/distractions. Sometimes, she'll cower and go the other
way  

I play tug w/her every day, and (get this...) have made a bite sleeve from 
my wife's old jean overalls. I've wrapped it on my arm, and let her tug at 
it like the tug she has.

So, what else should I do? and should I continue the jean-tug? I have no 
extra $$$ for club membership anywhere (couldn't you tell by my 
jean-tug?) and don't know anyone "close" to me who I can train with. 

Thanks!


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## susan tuck

Hey Martin, If your instincts were telling you your kids were teasing the pup, then I bet it was happening. Good on you, for making them quit it. At this point, if I were you, I would work on building her confidence back up, using tug /or leather rag. Let her win & praise her up. In fact, you may want to back off all obedience &/or corrections until she is "happy dancing" again, especially if you want to build her up to one day compete. The last thing I want to mention is her hormones. I don't have any experience with female dogs, but at 9 months the boys hormones are raging, & sometimes you see some rather wierd behaviours which they will stop doing once they stabilize. come to think of it, way back when, when I was a teenager, my friends & I (male & female) displayed some pretty stupid behaviors, so I don't see why it would be any different with dogs. (Can anyone say "run on sentence?")


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## Martin Espericueta

(All quotes by susan tuck)


> Hey Martin, If your instincts were telling you your kids were teasing the pup, then I bet it was happening. Good on you, for making them quit it.


Yes, and I'm sure they feel bad about it (now), as they see how she is 
sometimes.


> At this point, if I were you, I would work on building her confidence back up, using tug /or leather rag. Let her win & praise her up. In fact, you may want to back off all obedience &/or corrections until she is "happy dancing" again, especially if you want to build her up to one day compete.


By backing off OB / corrections, are you refering to:

OB sessions, like, "sitz, platz, and bleib"?
Corrections for non-compliance OB, or corrections for bad "pack behavior"?



> The last thing I want to mention is her hormones. I don't have any experience with female dogs, but at 9 months the boys hormones are raging, & sometimes you see some rather wierd behaviours which they will stop doing once they stabilize.


Well she has just come off of her 1st "heat" cycle. And I do see a change
for the better w/her cowarwing - allot less of it    !
Her "period" was lengthy. How long does a heat cycle typically last? Her's
was about 1.5 weeks!


> come to think of it, way back when, when I was a teenager, my friends & I (male & female) displayed some pretty stupid behaviors, so I don't see why it would be any different with dogs. (Can anyone say "run on sentence?")


 :wink:


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## Debbie High

Martin,

Most heat cycles last about 21 days. That 1-1/2 to 2 week mark is when most bitches are ready to be bred. A loose rule of thumb is a week coming in, a week of being bred and a week of going out.

INHO you need to keep your bitches training positve with very few corrections. As for pack order corrections....is she really that dominate/ pushy? Or does she just sort of actively incorporate into the household? Pack order corrections really don't always have to involve corrections per se, control the situations. From your description she does not sound like a dominate bitch. Lighten-up and enjoy your dog. Make everything fun and games!!!

You still have plenty of time for formal obedience training. I know people that wait until the dog is over a year old before obedience becomes a serious thing to worry about. For safety reasons the most important thing is to come when called. Everything else is a matter of rewarding good behavior. If she doesn't comply...... she doesn't get a reward. Keep yummy treats in your pockets at all times. You'll be amazed after a week.

Just some suggestions that work for me. Think like a dog!!!! :lol: 

Debbie


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## susan tuck

I agree with Debbie 100%! I would back off all corrections with her, jsut reward the positive & redirect or ignore negative until she bounces back.


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## Jerry Lyda

I too agree with Susan and Debbie. (Reward / ignore) Stop the corrections.


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## Connie Sutherland

Jerry Lyda said:


> I too agree with Susan and Debbie. (Reward / ignore) Stop the corrections.


I vote exactly the same.


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## Martin Espericueta

> quote from Debbie High:
> 
> Martin,
> 
> Most heat cycles last about 21 days. That 1-1/2 to 2 week mark is when most bitches are ready to be bred. A loose rule of thumb is a week coming in, a week of being bred and a week of going out.


Yeah, my wife just told me that Sable's cycle was about 21 days  

I'm keeping a *careful eye* on her when we're outside, as I am NOT
going to have another accidental breeding. In a few months, when $$$ is
not so tight, I'll be spaying her. I've been reading (mostly on Leerburg) 
that some bitches actually become slightly agressive after. This may be a
good thing for her, as she's a very soft dog right now. Actually, I love her
just the way she is  !



> INHO you need to keep your bitches training positve with very few corrections. As for pack order corrections....is she really that dominate/ pushy?


Not dominate at all. Well, she does growl when my Border Collie goes near
her food. But let me say that this is rare, as I feel them in separate areas.
Sable eats in her kennel, which is in my room. 

The one thing she does (and of course it's MY fault   ) is that
she tries to enter/exit through doors before me. She did, at one time, sitz
before going through ANY doors, but since I've been working CRAZY hours,
I haven't re-inforced that. So now she does this (again). Should I correct her?
Or just have the family have her "sitz" before opening doors? And if so, I
worry that she'll break the sit to go outside. Now her sit is 100% for me, but
not so good for the family. So, I can just see my sons (OVER)correcting
her for this. HELP!



> Pack order corrections really don't always have to involve corrections per se, control the situations.


This statment is full of great wisdom!



> Lighten-up and enjoy your dog. Make everything fun and games!!!


I'll be doing this from now on until she is "happy dancing" all over the place!!!



> You still have plenty of time for formal obedience training. I know people that wait until the dog is over a year old before obedience becomes a serious thing to worry about.


I'll start another topic on this, b/c my buddy who has a Dobe just started w/a
SchH club, and they told him to stop OB/corrections also. His Dobe is already
3 years old... I need some explination for that  . 



> For safety reasons the most important thing is to come when called. Everything else is a matter of rewarding good behavior. If she doesn't comply...... she doesn't get a reward. Keep yummy treats in your pockets at all times. You'll be amazed after a week.


Again, I'll be doing this! Thanks for helping Debbie!!! I can't wait to see 
Sable fully bloom!
Thanks also to the other posters, Connie, Jerry, Susan - and to the rest who
will post!


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## Connie Sutherland

Martin Espericueta said:


> ........The one thing she does (and of course it's MY fault   ) is that
> she tries to enter/exit through doors before me. She did, at one time, sitz
> before going through ANY doors, but since I've been working CRAZY hours,
> I haven't re-inforced that. So now she does this (again). Should I correct her?.....


Just walk ahead of her. Get your knee in front of her and squeeze ahead the first time or two, or hold her back with the lead and you go first. 

I mean, just do it, as opposed to expecting her to organize the order.


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## Greg Long

Ok,Ill be the devil's advocate for you Sch folks.

I correct all my dogs no matter if they are 6 weeks or 6 years.I dont see any ill effects on working ability or the will to work.Of course I dont build prey drive(although I used to) and I dont train for sport so I have different goals and needs.

Just had to aggravate you guys some more.. :twisted:


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## Connie Sutherland

Greg Long said:


> Ok,Ill be the devil's advocate for you Sch folks.
> 
> I correct all my dogs no matter if they are 6 weeks or 6 years.I dont see any ill effects on working ability or the will to work.Of course I dont build prey drive(although I used to) and I dont train for sport so I have different goals and needs.
> 
> Just had to aggravate you guys some more.. :twisted:


These answers are coming out of the situation of the dog cowering and submissive peeing after being teased or something when the owner was away. (It was kind of a multi-part thread.)


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## Debbie High

Hi Martin, Sounds like you're getting on the right track.....

I have a Mal that lives in the house who is a fairly dominate bitch. My husband gives her very few commands. I don't really want him too. She is my dog. If there is a problem he calls me. As for your kids they just need to play with the dog and have a good time since she is living as part of the family. As you said the corrections could be a problem. So if no commands are given there won't be any corrections! End of that problem. 

The door thing.....well, sometimes I make them wait and sometimes I let them go ahead of me. If safety is an issue then they always have to wait.

Corrections will often lower a dogs drive. Therefore, if you have a soft dog with medium drive and you over correct the dog OB is not going to look flashy and happy. A harder dog with lots of drive can likely take corrections and carry on as though nothing has happened. There are many combinations of drives and temperaments. It is up to us to figure out what works best for our dog. A simple voice correction, a prong collar an ecollar, food reward, toy reward, etc. etc. and/or any combination of the above. Hope I havent confused you!! :lol: :lol: 

Best of luck with your girl. Just give her time to grow up.

Debbie


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## Debbie High

Greg Long said:


> Ok,Ill be the devil's advocate for you Sch folks.
> 
> I correct all my dogs no matter if they are 6 weeks or 6 years.I dont see any ill effects on working ability or the will to work.Of course I dont build prey drive(although I used to) and I dont train for sport so I have different goals and needs.
> 
> Just had to aggravate you guys some more.. :twisted:


Greg, Saw your post after I posted mine.....I agree with what you say.......however, the first Mal I owned was a PSD wash out that was very, very,very soft. A firm NO and she would walk around for days as if I had beaten her.....drove me nuts! She doesn't live with me anymore. The guy that has her now loves her! I think our dogs have to fit our personalities, training abilities, family situation and needs. Different strokes for different folks!!! :lol:

Debbie


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## Greg Long

Ok ,Ill address the real issue!

The cowering and peeing I dont like.Tell the kids to leave the dog alone for awhile.Then take the dog everywhere with you.You may already do this.
Another thing you can do is take her out somewhere she can run loose in a big area without any other dogs or people for that matter.I get dogs in that lack confidence sometimes and this seems to help as much as anything.Let her be a dog and do what she wants for awhile.
When you do work her, dont allow anyone else to give her commands.All the while,you need to be very in tune with her every action and recognize when she is coming under stress.When you see this you tell her "its OK".
There's tons more to it than that but this can be the beginning to developing a communicational bond between you and the dog.She will put her trust in you and she has something to fall back on and this builds confidence.A soft dog like this will often want to work for it's handler very much.
Also,you're attitude needs to be very confident and relaxed.

As for flashy and happy :roll: :roll: you gotta do what you gotta do for points I guess. :x


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## susan tuck

HAHAHA Greg, you sound like Jeff..(not a bad thing)...Where the hell IS Jeff? I saw on the LB, there is a Mondio trial coming up soon. Jeff, if you are watching & entered in the trial, please let us know how it goes.


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## Greg Long

susan tuck said:


> HAHAHA Greg, you sound like Jeff..(not a bad thing)...Where the hell IS Jeff?


 :x :x How could you??That was cold...just cold!


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## Connie Sutherland

susan tuck said:


> HAHAHA Greg, you sound like Jeff......


If he reads that he might be back in a FLASH! :lol:


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## susan tuck

I hope so, I like the guy & miss his style. Also, it's fun to read his posts!
Greg: That's great advise, especially the part about not letting others correct or command the dog & being in tune with the dog. I feel very strongly about that.


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## Connie Sutherland

susan tuck said:


> I hope so, I like the guy & miss his style. Also, it's fun to read his posts!
> Greg: That's great advise, especially the part about not letting others correct or command the dog. I feel very strongly about that.


I also feel strongly about no one else correcting or commanding my dogs.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto

Greg Long said:


> Ok ,Ill address the real issue!
> 
> The cowering and peeing I dont like.Tell the kids to leave the dog alone for awhile.Then take the dog everywhere with you.You may already do this.
> Another thing you can do is take her out somewhere she can run loose in a big area without any other dogs or people for that matter.I get dogs in that lack confidence sometimes and this seems to help as much as anything.Let her be a dog and do what she wants for awhile.
> When you do work her, dont allow anyone else to give her commands.All the while,you need to be very in tune with her every action and recognize when she is coming under stress.When you see this you tell her "its OK".
> There's tons more to it than that but this can be the beginning to developing a communicational bond between you and the dog.She will put her trust in you and she has something to fall back on and this builds confidence.A soft dog like this will often want to work for it's handler very much.
> Also,you're attitude needs to be very confident and relaxed.
> 
> As for flashy and happy :roll: :roll: you gotta do what you gotta do for points I guess. :x



I believe it's a good way to go, if not the only way. This "starters" alone should benefit the dog well. It needs a leader.


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## susan tuck

And Greg, lest you forget, most of us in the "real world" have no need for a "real" protection dog. Frankly, "happy flashy" dogs look good, & get the points. Also, I have been lucky enough to have had sch dog that did have to get after a real bad guy for me once, & he sure did the job. Of course, he was a Tiekerhook dog!!! Honestly, you guys!


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## Debbie High

Greg Long said:


> As for flashy and happy :roll: :roll: you gotta do what you gotta do for points I guess. :x



I'm not always into flashy and happy either, depends on the dog. In the first post Martin said he wanted to do Sch with his bitch, so flashy and happy would certainly be advantageous for him. 

Debbie


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## Woody Taylor

Greg Long said:


> Tell the kids to leave the dog alone for awhile.


How about beat the living hell out of the kids for messing with the dog? My kids are 3 and 1.5 and this is one area that there is no compromise for either pet or kid. No teasing, no screwing around, no nothing, respect the dog/cat/fish/kid. The kids are superior to the dog and the dog knows this but the kids do not.

Seriously, if my kids were older and EVER teased any animal, I would lay into them hard. Right now it's verbal and timeouts...but once they are older that will be rule #1 of Fight Club at the Taylor household. You mess with another part of the pack, you will not be able to sit down for two weeks. Teasing pisses me off.

Martin, I don't know if you lean towards the soy burgers and rainbows part of the parental spectrum...I tend to on 95% of stuff...but that's one behavior I will never tolerate. You cannot tolerate that behavior around a dog, and humans should never tolerate it of other humans, regardless. If they are too old for spankings publically humilate them in front of their school. But don't put up with that garbage in your home, around your dog, or any other animal.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto

susan tuck said:


> And Greg, lest you forget, most of us in the "real world" have no need for a "real" protection dog. Frankly, "happy flashy" dogs look good, & get the points. Also, I have been lucky enough to have had sch dog that did have to get after a real bad guy for me once, & he sure did the job. Of course, he was a Tiekerhook dog!!! Honestly, you guys!



Pardon me please, but I don't think suggestions about asking kids to lay off the dog nor boosting the dog's confidence thru walks have anything to do with either sports or real. Something has got to be done to "bring the dog back" first so its owner/handler can utilize it for any future discipline.

I believe any dog well-loved by its handler will put up resistance if it finds its owner at risk. Even my showline dog I owned at first tore the pants off a mean bill collector. Though it was enough to scare and drive the man away, I also knew it was the most that dog could do. I had a call from an inquirer who told me of his highly-titled dog watch him got mauled by 3 guys. It was the second I heard of such case. One tabloid I read tells of a lady with her dog confronted also by 3 drunken men. The dog put up a fight but was down in a minute and the 3 proceeded to rape the lady. 

Most may not really need a personal protection dog at all. I even doubt if they can handle or develop a real one. Only a serious need can one really decide and be motivated enough to own and develop one.

Just my opinion...

Best regards...


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## Becky Shilling

I was surprised (and pleased) with my old Dobe Odin on one occasion. He was a real people-dog  loved everybody and I never thought he would show any aggresion no matter what. Being a 90 pound red muscle with eyes made most people give him a wide berth anyway. One evening I had taken him to the store with me in the passenger seat of our van. When I pulled in the drive at home, my husband was doing some work in the yard and came around a shrub and headed for my door down the drivers' side of the van. I guess Odin just saw movement headed for me (it was dusk/nearly dark) in the rear view mirror. Suddenly he roared like a lion and leaped across me out my window, hitting my husband like a freight train and knocking him down. Luckily he realized it was Steve before any more damage was done. Then he was all wiggly butt and apologetic grins.  Made me realize he would indeed protect me if it came to it.


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## Martin Espericueta

*Greg Long said*:


> Ok ,Ill address the real issue!
> 
> The cowering and peeing I dont like.Tell the kids to leave the dog alone for awhile.Then take the dog everywhere with you.You may already do this.


Yes, she goes EVERYWHERE w/me - this she loves! And as far as the kids
and her go, they are under strict orders to not give ANY commands to her,
only open the door to let her out to pee when I'm not home. Otherwise, she's
with my wife.

*Greg Long said some more*:


> Another thing you can do is take her out somewhere she can run loose in a big area without any other dogs or people for that matter.I get dogs in that lack confidence sometimes and this seems to help as much as anything.Let her be a dog and do what she wants for awhile.


I'll do this starting tomorrow (man, I LOVE this forum - such great advice!!!)

*Greg Long said again*:


> When you do work her, dont allow anyone else to give her commands. (*Martin inserts: Yes, this is being done*) All the while,you need to be very in tune with her every action and recognize when she is coming under stress.When you see this you tell her "its OK".


I do try to be tuned in to her (I owe that much to her), but I have a question
on the "its OK" part. Isn't comforting your dog when they're scared or unsure
sort of telling them that their "fear behavior" is OK? I've read that during
"fear behavior" from your dog, you ignore that, and just redirect them.
I hope y'all know what I'm trying to say  

*Greg Long was saying*:


> Also,you're attitude needs to be very confident and relaxed.


I am the confident and relaxed pack leader in my home - a true Cesar 
Milan disciple  - fair but firm. I just wish I was there for her during
the time my kids where... AHHHAAAHHH!!! 

*Woody Taylor said of Greg Long's quote*:


> Tell the kids to leave the dog alone for awhile.





> How about beat the living hell out of the kids for messing with the dog?...
> Martin, I don't know if you lean towards the soy burgers and rainbows part of the parental spectrum...I tend to on 95% of stuff...but that's one behavior I will never tolerate.


Both my wife and I are firm believers in spanking our kids. We do so out
of love, never in anger - but our kids know that the consequence for 
disobedience/bad behavior is spanking/priveledges taken.

Unfortunately, with all the kids denying the whole thing... Well, let's just 
say that they know (all three sons) that IF I EVER CATCH THEM/HEAR 
THAT THEY ABUSED OUR DOGS AGAIN... Yes, sitting down will not be an 
option for a couple of weeks 

Keep the advice coming guys and gals! I'm just soaking it all up! 

Once the bond between Sable and I is back where is should be (why 
would she be fearful w/*me* anyway?), and I can begin (light???) OB
again, what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating on w/a 9 month
old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?


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## Greg Long

I never said anything about real protection dogs.I am referring to something that you have a real need for the dog to do.It could be anything but sport for points isnt one of them.

I have dogs that act all happy and flashy but its not something I try to get out of my dogs.I dont care one way or the other.

Martin,

Its really hard to explain the "its ok" without demonstration.Its more of an acknowledgment to the dog that you are also aware of the situation than it is a comforting gesture.Its all in the way you use your vocal tones and your attitude.
If you were to coddle her and get down on your knees and say"its ok ,poor baby,everything will be alright" then I dont think that is a good thing and yes you could be encouraging the behavior.However if your vocals are very directive and say "ITS OK,I SEE IT" then you are telling the dog that you also see what she sees and it actually sharpens the indication but your attitude and vocals are what calms the dog and builds trust and confidence.Your attention should not be on her but on whatever she is worried about or on the task at hand.
If she is worried about you, then just pick up the lead and go do something.Dont focus on what she is doing but on a task like a small obstacle or something.She will then follow and start to take direction IF you have the DESIRE to communicate with her.
I believe obstacle work is one of the greatest tools for building a working relationship with your dog.At first though you need to go over the obstacles yourself and have the dog follow you on leash.This forces you to work WITH the dog to complete the task of getting both yourself and your dog over the obstacle.You can then incorporate obedience into the obstacle work.

I could go on and on but that is a good place to begin.


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## Sarah Hall

Maybe it's a little late for this (and I don't know if anyone said this yet), but if the kids keep picking on the dog, why not just beat up on them for a while? Make them see why she doesn't act happy!:twisted: :lol:


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## Martin Espericueta

*Greg Long said:*


> Martin,
> 
> Its really hard to explain the "its ok" without demonstration.Its more of an acknowledgment to the dog that you are also aware of the situation than it is a comforting gesture.Its all in the way you use your vocal tones and your attitude.
> If you were to coddle her and get down on your knees and say"its ok ,poor baby,everything will be alright" then I dont think that is a good thing and yes you could be encouraging the behavior.However if your vocals are very directive and say "ITS OK,I SEE IT" then you are telling the dog that you also see what she sees and it actually sharpens the indication but your attitude and vocals are what calms the dog and builds trust and confidence.Your attention should not be on her but on whatever she is worried about or on the task at hand.
> If she is worried about you, then just pick up the lead and go do something.Dont focus on what she is doing but on a task like a small obstacle or something.She will then follow and start to take direction IF you have the DESIRE to communicate with her.
> I believe obstacle work is one of the greatest tools for building a working relationship with your dog.At first though you need to go over the obstacles yourself and have the dog follow you on leash.This forces you to work WITH the dog to complete the task of getting both yourself and your dog over the obstacle.You can then incorporate obedience into the obstacle work.
> 
> I could go on and on but that is a good place to begin.


I get you man :wink: And I'll re-focus her onto something else when her 
behavior is fearful.

All the advice from this forum is ALREADY paying off! Her behavior has 
"relaxed" A WHOLE HECK OF ALLOT! She's really (re)bonding with me - 
and the kids. I tell you, we can learn SO MUCH from our dogs. Sable has, 
from what it seems, forgiven the kids, and me as her pack leader for even
allowing something to happen. We're pulling through, her and I, as a team.

Greg, you have so elequently put it, *"She will then follow and start to take 
direction IF you have the DESIRE to communicate with her."* Yes, I desire
this, and am applying our training/bonding in such a way that Sable and I
will be closer because, and not dispite, the horrible incident she has gone
through...

-----------------------------------------------------
*Replies welcome:* :wink: 

Once the bond between Sable and I is back where is should be, and I can 
begin (light???) OB again, what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating 
on w/a 9 month old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?


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## Jose Alberto Reanto

Martin Espericueta said:


> I get you man :wink: And I'll re-focus her onto something else when her
> behavior is fearful.
> 
> *Replies welcome:* :wink:
> 
> Once the bond between Sable and I is back where is should be, and I can
> begin (light???) OB again, what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating
> on w/a 9 month old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?



I think the focus should be on the work and the handler, not on "something else". Working this way as Greg suggests, stress that becomes "fearfull" to the dog must be overcome by going thru it with its handler. 

You may likewise want to do like most do, throw a ball, play tug or toy and let the dog build tons of prey. It doesn't need "oneness" with the dog.

Hope it helps...


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## Greg Long

Yes, I should have been a little more specific.You are 100% correct,Al.

What you are seeing and calling "fear" is an instinctive reaction in the dog.The dog is starting to take flight.You should tell the dog "its ok I see it" and then imediately work through or around whatever it is that is causing that stress.You dont tell the dog its ok and then stop or go away from the stress.You must tell the dog its ok and work through the stress and continue the task at hand.Then afterwards both you and the dog are stronger and better for it.


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## Connie Sutherland

From the vantage of someone who's working with another person's borderline-phobic dog, I have to say that these last two posts, especially, are great.


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## Connie Sutherland

BTW, Martin, I'm not sure this was answered...

QUOTE: Once the bond between Sable and I is back where is should be (why would she be fearful w/me anyway?) END

Some dogs who were abused by men or big boys might then be fearful around all men and big boys. 

Sounds like you've made a good start with restoring her confidence.


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## Martin Espericueta

> You should tell the dog "its ok I see it" and then imediately work through or around whatever it is that is causing that stress


Yes, I understand this. Her stress was geared toward *me* - even though 
the actual abuse was from my sons. I'm the only one to use the "Heir" 
command w/Sable, and her reaction to it has been one of cowering.

Connie's answer about how some dogs who were abused by men or big 
boys might then be fearful around all men and big boys - really hits the 
nail on the head. You make perfect sense Connie. It was happening to my
dog!

I've been really working with her, and applying ALL the great advice given 
in this thread. And guess what? Sable is doing GREAT  

So, to update y'all, Sable IS doing tons better      

She no longer cowers when called. My sons STILL are NOT allowed to do 
anything w/her unless supervised by myself, and I have to say that she is 
actually a happier dog working through this.  

So I'll close this chapter in Sable's life, learning from it and being a better
handler for it.

I'll post a new thread on the SchH training issues I have, and anything else
for that matter. Thanks to all!

Say hello Sable:









Sable, don't stick your tongue out at these nice people:


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## Connie Sutherland

Good work, Martin.


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## susan tuck

Good job, Martin & I LOVE those pictures. \/ \/


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## Sarah Hall

Sable is a cutie! Gotta love the tounge pics!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating 
on w/a 9 month old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?

There is only so much you can do. Drive building is often suggested, but the reality is that there is a strong probability that there isn't enough there.

I would say use her to practice your handling and training skills while looking for a new dog to use for Sch. Doesn't take much, as we all know how weak this sport is. :lol: Once you have trained a skill with a dog, it isn't nearly as weird the next time you train it. 

I would start tracking and send aways and all the stuff that is interesting somewhat, as the basic OB isn't killer brain surgeon material.

I would also consider if I were you of doing agility as well. It can be helpful with the rest with a weak dog, as the work is not hard and fun. It also helps your dog understand your body language better in a relaxed situation, as I doubt you would take it as seriously.


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## Woody Taylor

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: what would you sport dog trainers be consentrating
> on w/a 9 month old soft bitch w/medium prey drive?
> 
> There is only so much you can do. Drive building is often suggested, but the reality is that there is a strong probability that there isn't enough there.
> 
> I would say use her to practice your handling and training skills while looking for a new dog to use for Sch. Doesn't take much, as we all know how weak this sport is. :lol: Once you have trained a skill with a dog, it isn't nearly as weird the next time you train it.
> 
> I would start tracking and send aways and all the stuff that is interesting somewhat, as the basic OB isn't killer brain surgeon material.
> 
> I would also consider if I were you of doing agility as well. It can be helpful with the rest with a weak dog, as the work is not hard and fun. It also helps your dog understand your body language better in a relaxed situation, as I doubt you would take it as seriously.


Yep, Martin, I think this is a good approach for you. Don't sweat the bitework stuff now, work on the stuff Jeff's suggesting here. Good for you, good for the dog and the dog's confidence.


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## Martin Espericueta

*Quote by Jeff Oehlsen*:


> There is only so much you can do. Drive building is often suggested, but the reality is that there is a strong probability that there isn't enough there.
> 
> I would say use her to practice your handling and training skills while looking for a new dog to use for Sch. Doesn't take much, as we all know how weak this sport is. :lol: Once you have trained a skill with a dog, it isn't nearly as weird the next time you train it.
> 
> I would start tracking and send aways and all the stuff that is interesting somewhat, as the basic OB isn't killer brain surgeon material.
> 
> I would also consider if I were you of doing agility as well. It can be helpful with the rest with a weak dog, as the work is not hard and fun. It also helps your dog understand your body language better in a relaxed situation, as I doubt you would take it as seriously.


I was given the 1st bit of advice from Gregg Tawney when he evaled Sable
at 5 months. Train her as far as *she'll* go, not as far as I want her to
go, if she doesn't have the drive to carry her through. Gregg said (and 
now you - _great minds_...) that I'll learn tons about "reading" a dog
- learning how to build drive, learning specific techniques, etc., and when/if
I ever get a "high-drive"/"genetically apt"/"insert your favorite term here",
working dog, I'll be a MUCH better handler then.

I'll start to train her in tracking, and the other "fun" stuff, like the send-away. 
BTW, she's really having fun now w/playtimes!

Agility - where to begin? I'll post separate threads for 1) Agility training, 
2) Tracking, 3) Send away, and, 4) etc! Does it count that on our daily 
walks (I've got a killer cold/flu right now, so she's stuck indoors w/me  ) 
to the local park, I lead her onto the jungle gym? She loves to "hup" onto 
picnic tables, and I do "sitz/platz" stuff while high up on the kids play gym. 

Morning times, and SOME evenings there's no one at the park, so I let her 
off leash for "bringen" and "chase the human (me) around as he runs out 
of breath".

*Woody Taylor said*:


> Yep, Martin, I think this is a good approach for you. Don't sweat the bitework stuff now, work on the stuff Jeff's suggesting here. Good for you, good for the dog and the dog's confidence.


I'll be - maybe once every 2/3 weeks - training w/a buddy of mine on 
bitework. Is that going to be too much too soon? Strickly prey drive building,
getting her to bite a "real" sleeve (not my wife's jeans rolled up on my arm :wink: )
Back-tying her in order to frustrate some bark out of her w/a sleeve as a prey 
item.

I know enough to NOT mess her up w/defensive stuff at her age - so:
- *NO DEFENCE* yet until she's, maybe what, 18 months? He has a 3 year
old Dobe (have you been reading the thread, GSD VS DOBE other 
_there_?) - very well behaved and socialized.


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## Connie Sutherland

Martin Espericueta said:


> ..........(have you been reading the thread, GSD VS DOBE other
> _there_?) - very well behaved and socialized.


Oh, yeah .... my very favorite response was from Al Curbow. He laughed. :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ........I would say use her to practice your handling and training skills while looking for a new dog to use for Sch. Doesn't take much, as we all know how weak this sport is. :lol: Once you have trained a skill with a dog, it isn't nearly as weird the next time you train it. ..... I would start tracking and send aways and all the stuff that is interesting somewhat, as the basic OB isn't killer brain surgeon material.......


LOL! This is exactly -- precisely -- what I am doing. Several club members, in fact. We're learning to train all the SchH work we can with no decoy. We're all long-time owners and trainers, but not in SchH. 

It took us a long time to figure out that this would be a good way to go. I wish I had read a post like this a year ago. :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland

Well, except for the "weak" part......... :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I am sure I wrote that a year ago. I have been saying it for years.

Quote: (not my wife's jeans rolled up on my arm ) 

Oh please God, stop this nonsense. All newbies please take note. THIS IS STUPID. You are not qualified, so just stop. Besides it screws up your dog.


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