# Gnash's courage test in PSA



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

We held a mock trial this Sunday, Gnash did pretty good considering he has been on the suit for just a few sessions. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udje2yvd_-8&sns=fb


----------



## Peta Het (Feb 13, 2011)

Nice. Always good to see a GSD take down the decoy!


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Decoy work like that is a good way to injure dogs.
Might has well have the dog slam into a brick wall with a bulls eye painted on it.


----------



## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

I think you should come to the dark side and just play ring with Gnash, and quit f**king around with that other silly dog show. :twisted:


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Decoy work like that is a good way to injure dogs.
> Might has well have the dog slam into a brick wall with a bulls eye painted on it.


I would not talk bad about the decoy, he made very smooth catches throughout the day. Gnash just hit him center of mass, he has not been on the suit for long.


----------



## kerry engels (Nov 7, 2010)

Faisal Khan said:


> I would not talk bad about the decoy, he made very smooth catches throughout the day. Gnash just hit him center of mass, he has not been on the suit for long.


 
I think Gnash likes this new game. The decoy did a great job all day, I don't know what more he could have done when the dog went for the center of his chest. Good hit! Gnash seemed to enjoy it.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hammer time!


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Hammer time!


No doubt!

T


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Decoy work like that is a good way to injure dogs.
> Might has well have the dog slam into a brick wall with a bulls eye painted on it.


Thanks for sharing the video Faisal..I think he likes PSA..


Thomas.. those were pretty strong words of criticism of the decoy..

WHAT DO YOU THINK HE SHOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY?


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> Thanks for sharing the video Faisal..I think he likes PSA..
> 
> 
> Thomas.. those were pretty strong words of criticism of the decoy..
> ...


Jody,

It was a criticism of the ONE video ! I don't know the decoy from a hole in the ground and don't know if I've seen him work any other dogs. I don't know his experience level at all.
He should have pivoted one way or the other. I doubt if Gnash came dead on center? That's one of the problems with PSA style decoy work and the bicep target and full speed attacks.
Very few know how to catch center punch and leg dogs.
Every decoy is going to make a bad catch. If you can't take criticism then do something else. While I appreciate every decoy that puts on a sleeve or suit. I'm not going to ignore bad work.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Jody,
> 
> It was a criticism of the ONE video ! I don't know the decoy from a hole in the ground and don't know if I've seen him work any other dogs. I don't know his experience level at all.
> He should have pivoted one way or the other. I doubt if Gnash came dead on center? That's one of the problems with PSA style decoy work and the bicep target and full speed attacks.
> ...


so he should have pivoted early? and take away the target arm? which would teach the dog to go center even more?

this is not a decoy problem to me, it is a targeting problem..


----------



## Dominic Rozzi (Aug 2, 2009)

i can see both trains of thought here---as the sport progessives and gains in popularity the decoys are faced with a lot of cross-overs from other sports----psa decoys are getting more and more training on footwork and legs althought the preferred bite area is the upper bicep, jeff riccio and others are doing a very good job in preparing certified decoys to catch the dogs safely --this dog unless i missed it when the decoy gets up is was biting in the preferred area---a little higher would of been better---the decoy just wasn't ready for the impact--whether footwork or in-experience...over all i think both the dog and decoy have potential


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> so he should have pivoted early? and take away the target arm? which would teach the dog to go center even more?
> 
> this is not a decoy problem to me, it is a targeting problem..


I thought you did decoy work?
You don't pivot early but you do pivot (one way or the other) based on the impact of the dog. Like Dominic said, the decoy was caught flat footed. If every dog targeted the correct/preferred bicep area? PSA decoy work would be a lot easier but as long as you have Schutzhund and Ring sport cross overs. Dogs aren't going where you think they should a lot of the time.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I thought you did decoy work?
> You don't pivot early but you do pivot (one way or the other) based on the impact of the dog. Like Dominic said, the decoy was caught flat footed. If every dog targeted the correct/preferred bicep area? PSA decoy work would be a lot easier but as long as you have Schutzhund and Ring sport cross overs. Dogs aren't going where you think they should a lot of the time.


Thomas, I have seen tons of guys get knocked down by centered up dogs, and lots of hard impacts from good decoys...

In ringsport things seem to go much smoother, in that regard (centered up dogs) because they are in motion, trying to NOT get bit..

Is this guy a good decoy, I dont know, Never met him. All I am saying it is very easy to make statements. It is not so easy to properly catch EVERY fast dog that comes centered up, on high inside bites...especially if you are required to allow them to get the bite, without esquiving them in any way. I have yet to meet a decoy that can do that every time with every dog...

The video is too far away, and not at a good angle to break it down very well, I would have to defer to the people that were there, even if a dog bites you on the chest, by the time you fall and get up, or dont fall, the suit has shifted from the dogs weight, it often looks like he bit further off to the side than he actually did..

If people want to train for PSA and are concerned about impacts, then it is paramount that they focus a lot of work on the proper targeting..of course there is a range of skill level, but NO ONE can catch fast hard hitting PSA type biting dogs, correctly (in your opinion), every time if they go center mass, without possibly taking the bite away, or having some impacts...sometimes there is simply not enough time, and not enough space to pivot, unless you lead it...there is a reason why the target is the target...it is quite different from a IPO catch on a sleeve.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

above post is only MY opinion...others may differ of course..


----------



## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Ok I'll bite...just for shits n giggles.. here is the same guy the same day catching my dog smoothly, and my dog is normally a pretty reckless hard hitting dog who is going to hurt himself... and the other is him catching my arm dog the same day... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-slIrZ3y2Go&feature=results_video



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtTyG46BLws&feature=relmfu


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

georgia estes said:


> Ok I'll bite...just for shits n giggles.. here is the same guy the same day catching my dog smoothly, and my dog is normally a pretty reckless hard hitting dog who is going to hurt himself... and the other is him catching my arm dog the same day...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-slIrZ3y2Go&feature=results_video
> 
> ...


OK so he can catch leg dogs and he can catch bicep targeting upper body dogs. He just has trouble with center mass targeting dogs? ;-)

I just noticed the leg dog transfers from one leg to the other (@20-21 seconds) in the middle of the drive. What is he a Baden trained bite transfer dog ?


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Slow motion footage now available
http://youtu.be/_N57Ud-NY-w


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Even uglier in slow motion. Teach Gnash to target the bicep for PSA /Suit Work or stick to IPO.


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> I think you should come to the dark side and just play ring with Gnash, and quit f**king around with that other silly dog show. :twisted:


I thought ring was for stick shy dogs, hehe. Will try that one day after training PSA.


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Jody,
> 
> It was a criticism of the ONE video ! I don't know the decoy from a hole in the ground and don't know if I've seen him work any other dogs. I don't know his experience level at all.
> He should have pivoted one way or the other. I doubt if Gnash came dead on center? That's one of the problems with PSA style decoy work and the bicep target and full speed attacks.
> ...


Sheesh Thomas. You better stay away from KNPV videos too, then. I don't think it was a bad catch at all. As he was falling, he rotated his body, so as not to crush or twist the dog while it is biting. He immediately stood up and drove the dog nicely without stepping on it. Looked pretty good to me. That have gone wrong on so many levels, but the decoy appeared to be conscious of what was going on and made good adjustments.


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Even uglier in slow motion. Teach Gnash to target the bicep for PSA /Suit Work or stick to IPO.


Enough Tomas, post a video of your dobe so we can see an example of perfect dog and training.. LOL


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Looks like Gnash is well on his way to proving a good dog is a good dog, regardless of venue.
:smile:


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Faisal Khan said:


> Enough Tomas, post a video of your dobe so we can see an example of perfect dog and training.. LOL


Faisal

You posted the god damn video and asked "what do you think"?
It' s got nothing to do with the training or the dog or the overall work that the decoy does. The catch was terrible. In slow motion you can see Gnash's head bend back. You wan to be in the tough dog, hardest hitting, knock down the decoy school? Your choice. I'm interested in the safety of my dogs not impressing anyone on the trial field much less on an internet list. Good Luck with your training.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (Jun 7, 2006)

It is hard to tell how much of the decoy going down is is result of the dog hitting center mass with power, vs, the decoy pivoting and falling on his ass.I would consider backing things up and letting the dog work on a tie out and learning to target the bicep and getting comfortable being cradled in the frontal position, holding the bite and regripping and then learning to out in a calm manner. You might consider using a Belgian sleeve in reverse for this. Then I would move to short sends of about ten feet and repeat the same thing. After engaging, puting tension on the long leash, giving slack for a regrip and building from there. I don't think the dog showed a a major, strong entry, but more likely, the decoy fell/slipped. The dog seems to have good drive and confidence, but ,as always, the correct training will bring the best out out of the dog.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chip Blasiole said:


> It is hard to tell how much of the decoy going down is is result of the dog hitting center mass with power, vs, the decoy pivoting and falling on his ass.I would consider backing things up and letting the dog work on a tie out and learning to target the bicep and getting comfortable being cradled in the frontal position, holding the bite and regripping and then learning to out in a calm manner. You might consider using a Belgian sleeve in reverse for this. Then I would move to short sends of about ten feet and repeat the same thing. After engaging, puting tension on the long leash, giving slack for a regrip and building from there. I don't think the dog showed a a major, strong entry, but more likely, the decoy fell/slipped. The dog seems to have good drive and confidence, but ,as always, the correct training will bring the best out out of the dog.



+1


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

+2 (working on targeting)
not sure if I would use just a sleeve though, that would depend on the dog..


----------



## Maynard Pease (Jun 3, 2008)

Keep up the hard work=D>


----------

