# Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB



## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

This thread was started awhile ago about the injuries to dog at the 2007 FMBB World Championships. 

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f23/great-catches-13789/index4.html

Rather than go with Internet rumors, I went to the source and got the following response from the Secretary of the FMBB. Please keep this in mind when you decide to spread around "what you heard" because it obviously has gotten blown way out of proportion over time regarding this particular event. 


To:
Dana Williams AWMA Membership Chair

From: phone: e-mail:
Geert Bouckaert
+ 32 59 43 45 95 [email protected]

Concerning: Question on internet rumors over dog injuries during the FMBB Championship 2007.

Hallo Dana,
We do not fully understand why you ask these questions, more than 3 years after the Championship in 2007. However, shortly after the Championship 2007 we did make some inquiries regarding the rumors on the net.

We know that 3 dogs have been injured. 2 of those dogs where already injured before entering the championship. The 3th dog died a few months later because of cancer, already active during the Championship.

So, no dog was put down because of injuries during the Championship 2007. We had a good look on some video’s concerning the helpers. The video confirmed us that the helpers are not to be blamed for the dog injuries.

On behalf of the FMBB Board,

Geert Bouckaert
Secretary A.D. Tempelierstraat 4 8470 Gistel België
+ 32 59 43 45 95 + 32 477 35 70 19


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

Thanks for posting that information. I heard 3 dog had to be put to sleep because of broken sternums and 16-17 other dogs were hurt. I'm glad to know the truth now.

THANKS!!!


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Dana Williams said:


> This thread was started awhile ago about the injuries to dog at the 2007 FMBB World Championships.
> 
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f23/great-catches-13789/index4.html
> 
> ...


 
This is video of the championship and the injuries. Helpers were tip-top.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz0KVeQO-UI&feature=related


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

It is not a matter of the quality of the helper work but as Chris said, there is a far cry from 17 dogs being injured and 3 dying from their injures to what the FMBB states. I think too many people jumped on the sensationalism and not just this forum but on others as well when the original videos came out. Too many people go by "what they heard" and not based on fact.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I thought it interesting that he did not understand why we were holding on to shit that happened years prior.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Dana Williams said:


> It is not a matter of the quality of the helper work but as Chris said, there is a far cry from 17 dogs being injured and 3 dying from their injures to what the FMBB states. I think too many people jumped on the sensationalism and not just this forum but on others as well when the original videos came out. Too many people go by "what they heard" and not based on fact.


Dana with the risk of highly offending someone. I talked with people whom were at the trial...That's where I got 17 dogs. Not off some internet whirl wind. What I am suppose to do with the information I am given from someone...I can only assume it's the truth. It's not sensationism. It's just passing the word. Not ill intent of making something out of nothing. Also one source stated that 4 dogs were seriously injured...one demo dog from try outs had a broken tail. The other 13 dogs sustained minor injury....such as simply being jammed and also getting thier legs caught between the helpers. The only 3 reported dogs were the dogs that were in trial and required immediate medical attention or could not continue. Multiple people stated the same, whom were in attendance....One also stated that the Judge expressed serious concern after try outs that helpers ability was lacking. So what I heard was just reliable as you getting information from a letter. 

The one thing about the letter presented. Is that 2 dogs had injuries prior. Aikia was the dog reported to be PTS. I then heard she was still alive. Then I heard she had a broken chest, and crushed vertebrae. Then the owner stepped forward and said. Aikia had a broken rib, a broken tooth, and neck injury still being investigated. She never worked again. I saw photos of Octavious on the operating table getting a broken leg fixed. And that injury no doubt happened there. So, right there. Those 2 dogs were healthy entering the trial. They showed like they had no injuries till the incident The dog's did not show up with broken bones. Also, the video shows bad catches that most defintly was the mechanism that caused the injury. I have a hard time believing that the dogs had injuries significant enough that they simply broke...Even a hairline fracture is extremely painful.

The third dog was another hind leg injury...But never was stated what the actual trauma was. 

So, I have problem believing one thing I am reading on the net as truth. The Letter. One that the helpers work was not the cause. And that 2 dogs showed up to the trial injured enough that they simply broke. There is something as downplaying something also. Or simply not recording an injury just because the dog finished the trial and did not need to see a Vet. The letter does seem to be on the defensive in an effort to protect the helpers.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

it reminded me how much I could hurt a dog and made me want to be much more careful 
the championships and still things happen


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I just talked with my friend who was there and said the decoy after injuring the dogs at the trial as he was departing the field and seeing the people started to ramble how the dogs that got hurt were injured prior to protection work and it was not his fault. That was the Back half helper....also he said it got so ugly for the front half helper that he did not return on saturday to finish the trial.

But you have to look at the work and wonder....why would he say that?

Now it's all said and done. And we can speculate who is telling the truth. But my friend, just a spectator with no knowledge of who the decoys were...he had no motive to insult anyone. But Other parties involved do not really want to have black eyes.

You try and make it sound like people, I were just pulling numbers out of a hat with no real reference.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



James Downey said:


> This is video of the championship and the injuries. Helpers were tip-top.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz0KVeQO-UI&feature=related


Damn....


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



James Downey said:


> Now it's all said and done. And we can speculate who is telling the truth. But my friend,* just a spectator*...



VS




> On behalf of the *FMBB Board*,
> 
> Geert Bouckaert
> Secretary A.D.




:roll:


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I believe Chris Smith and Mr. Bouckaert has said all that needs to be said.


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## Petra StrUbing (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I know Prowaffe's Arttu personally and as you can all see in video decoy hurts his leg. He was not injuried before FMBB Championships 2007. His season 2007 was over after this competition. He recovered and was able to compete again after that season 2007.

I really wonder who can really be sure that injury of Aika vom Drachenherz was something about cancer ?? I don't believe it. You can see on video she hurt herself with decoy. Ok, her death can be about cancer but how they know cancer was already in may 2007? Was it found after injury or is it just another bullshit??


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

Lying cheating and bullshit in dog sports ?? Since when ??

Powderpuff judges, paid decoys, paid helpers, selecting certain trials to pump ones scores up because the decoys are inexperienced and unlikely to be much for the dog, Seminars for a week with the judges and trial decoys before the trial, midnight trials, this all happens. 

Not only that, many just accept it as how the "game" is played.


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Petra StrUbing said:


> His season 2007 was over after this competition. He recovered and was able to compete again after that season 2007.


Unless I am mistaken, He competed again 5 months after the FMBB and did very well, winning the SBPKY Finnish Working Championship


http://www.working-dog.eu/meisterschaft-details/724/SBPKY FM IPO 2007/


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## Petra StrUbing (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

Yes, that is correct but not able to go competitions before october. (Sorry, I did wrote something not exactly right...) There are 2 important competition in may and august in Finland and also FCI World Championships before october.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I don't know how many dogs got hurt there, but I guess that for the ones on the video, there is no doubt that they got hurt right there and because of bad decoy work. It's on tape, so for me this is proof enough.

Accidents happen and it's wrong to just blame the decoy. I'm also sure they didn't do it on purpose. Only thing is that these particular decoys shouldn't have been selected for a World Championship.

As for the letter of the FMBB. It's "understandable" that they prefer not to talk too much about it...


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

Petra.
Will ther be mondio trails in finland this year? If so when?
Thanks


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## Petra StrUbing (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I will send you private message .



andreas broqvist said:


> Petra.
> Will ther be mondio trails in finland this year? If so when?
> Thanks


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

The most blind is the person who does not want to see!!!

Politiclish can work even in front of the evidence of a video.

Well since everything was OK let's do another WC just like that, with the same decoys or worst.

Good luck to all the partecipant

Max Orsi


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Dana Williams said:


> I believe Chris Smith and Mr. Bouckaert has said all that needs to be said.


Not to worry than carry on :-$


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Max Orsi said:


> The most blind is the person who does not want to see!!!
> 
> Politiclish can work even in front of the evidence of a video.
> 
> ...


Max nobody is saying that the helper work was correct or they want to see anything like that happen again. But is it right to exaggerate what happened? Were 17 dogs hurt? No. Were any dogs killed? No. Were too many dogs hurt? Yes. 



People just love to roll in the shit. No wonder TMZ is one of Americas most referenced news sources.


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Christopher Smith said:


> Max nobody is saying that the helper work was correct or they want to see anything like that happen again. But is it right to exaggerate what happened? Were 17 dogs hurt? No. Were any dogs killed? No. Were too many dogs hurt? Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> People just love to roll in the shit. No wonder TMZ is one of Americas most referenced news sources.


 
Chris,

nobody like to roll in shit, at least not the people I spend time with.

A video of bad helper work has been posted, I stated the blame was on the organization not the decoys.

The FMBB response was that the dogs were already hurt or sick and everything on their part was good.

I am not OK with that reply. I will never go to a WC, but as a person who likes working dogs and dogsports, cannot sit back after the FMBB reply and say "OK, it was just an exageration".

It does not matter how bad the dogs were hurt, as you can see from the video dogs were hurt and that is important.

It would have been better to aknowledge the fact and give solution for it never to happen again, than BS and excuses.

As I alredy said, accidents happen to the best, but the decoys in the videos should not have been there.

Happy taining

Max


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Petra StrUbing said:


> I really wonder who can really be sure that injury of Aika vom Drachenherz was something about cancer ?? I don't believe it. You can see on video she hurt herself with decoy. Ok, her death can be about cancer but how they know cancer was already in may 2007? Was it found after injury or is it just another bullshit??




 [FONT=&quot]Jürgen Rixen, the editor of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gebrauchshund magazine, wrote about this on the editors page in February of 2008 he wrote that Aika died of cancer. {first page, second column, first paragraph}[/FONT]
http://www.der-gebrauchshund.de/DGH_2-2008_S3-7.pdf
 [FONT=&quot]I'm sure Gebraichund Magazine is also in on the big cover-up. :smile:[/FONT]


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Max Orsi said:


> Chris,
> 
> 
> The FMBB response was that the dogs were already hurt or sick and everything on their part was good.
> ...


Max do you even know the question that Dana asked the FMBB? If you don't know the question how can you criticize the response?


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Dana Williams said:


> This thread was started awhile ago about the injuries to dog at the 2007 FMBB World Championships.
> 
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f23/great-catches-13789/index4.html
> 
> ...


From what I can read from Dana's post the question is in *bold* and the FMBB answerthat concerns me is also in *bold.*

Maybe my english reding comprehension skills are worst than I thought!

My eyes are still good, or so the doctor who check my eye sight a couple of months ago told me and judging from the video a few dogs were injured. It hurts me just to watch it.

Happy training

Max


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Christopher Smith said:


> VS
> 
> 
> 
> :roll:


 


keep talking Chris.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Christopher Smith said:


> VS
> 
> 
> 
> :roll:


 
Also Chris, Multiple Sources who were in attendance...stated the same. A president of a club....you should understand as a vice president, that it's thier job to protect the club. Multiple fans...whom have no MO at all had similar stories.
President of a club under fire Vs. People just watching. Whom to believe?
But what's even more troubling, The argument was about shitty work at a championship and dogs did get injured....But Dana felt that the real crime is sensationalism.


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Petra StrUbing said:


> I really wonder who can really be sure that injury of Aika vom Drachenherz was something about cancer ?? I don't believe it. You can see on video she hurt herself with decoy. Ok, her death can be about cancer but how they know cancer was already in may 2007? Was it found after injury or is it just another bullshit??



We had a top quality 4 year old Rottweiler here in the United States. I saw the dog in May in perfect shape and he was dead a few months later. Some cancer acts quickly. 

Rather than speculate, we live in the age of technology ... and that means google makes everything a click away. I received a response back from the dog's breeder after sending an e-mail to the address listed on their website: 

http://www.vom-drachenherz.de/index2.htm


"Hello Dana,

Sorry, but my english is not so good. I hope you understand me.
The Owner Marko Habic told us - that Aika are died on cancer!
It was very sad!

Kerstin"



The point is not to justify that the helpers were good or bad. I think the point is whether its fair to let rumors exaggerate the number of injuries to the point of saying multiple dogs die. It is quite easy to send an e-mail or make a phone call for clarification. 

As far as the validity of a "spectators" experience, I will use a recent e-mail I received regarding a photographer at an AKC dog show. The first e-mail I received stated that at a dog show, the photographer's ear was ripped off entirely by a dog, that they could not find all of the ear and that she spent many hours in reconstructive surgery that night. A second e-mail was sent saying that none of this was true. The truth was that it ripped off part of the ear, the bleeding was controlled on sight by an EMT and she refused an ambulance ride opting to take care of it at a different hospital. She was back home that night recovering from surgery. 


It is not me questioning someone who "was there" but rather, questioning someone who TALKED to someone who was there. If you'd like to share their contact information, I would LOVE to verify what they actually said. Honestly, how many things could have been exaggerated in the process? Obviously quite a bit since it went from 3 dogs being injured to 17 injuries and 3 deaths. 

Again, its not justify the helpers or protecting the organization but trying to put a stop to people running with misinformation. Clarification is easy. 

Also, complete video of the championships is available on this website: 
http://www.ipo.nu/video.asp


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## Petra StrUbing (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I want to clarify what I wrote so that no one understands abuse ... it was only my guess that Aika's death associated with injury of the competition. If I have hurt someone so please forgive me. But I also see on the video that Aika injuried in competition and I don't believe injury is because of cancer.
Also Prowaffe's Arttu injured in competition. Could not participate due to injury, Qualifying competition for the FCI World Championships and competition in the Finnish championship and the FCI World Championship.

In addition, many competitors were not pleased to decoys. This is all I know. And I would NOT also want to participate World Championships with decoys like these in video. 





Dana Williams said:


> We had a top quality 4 year old Rottweiler here in the United States. I saw the dog in May in perfect shape and he was dead a few months later. Some cancer acts quickly.
> 
> Rather than speculate, we live in the age of technology ... and that means google makes everything a click away. I received a response back from the dog's breeder after sending an e-mail to the address listed on their website:
> 
> ...


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

If I was competing at that trial (of course I never will, cause I am a lazy dumbass who doesn't know shit), but IF I were and me and my dog were going after those dogs in the video... I would pull my entry right then and there, talk to the judge and refuse to enter and report with my dog, hell or high water.

It was painful to watch that video to say the least. Damn. Full credit to the digs still engaging and doing their job even when hobbling or holding their leg up.

Painful video to watch.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*



Dana Williams said:


> As far as the validity of a "spectators" experience, I will use a recent e-mail I received regarding a photographer at an AKC dog show. The first e-mail I received stated that at a dog show, the photographer's ear was ripped off entirely by a dog, that they could not find all of the ear and that she spent many hours in reconstructive surgery that night. A second e-mail was sent saying that none of this was true. The truth was that it ripped off part of the ear, the bleeding was controlled on sight by an EMT and she refused an ambulance ride opting to take care of it at a different hospital. She was back home that night recovering from surgery.


Great example Dana. I heard the same story about the AKC photographer and had I not read your post I'd still be telling people that a swiss mountain dog bit off a photographer's ear at an AKC show. This goes to show that we are probably all guilty of this at times and how easy it is to come across misinformation even from people who witnessed the event.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I worked as a cop long enough to never base an opinion solely on any witness. 

Video, on the other hand, is harder to argue with. Not impossible mind you, but much harder.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

And I have been in the dog game long enough to know that the bigger the lie the more people will believe it. 

No one is saying that everything was perfect and no dogs were hurt, but 3 killed and 17 injured is complete bullshit. If you see someone speeding on a speed camera does that make them guilty of vehicular manslaughter? Is there a video of 3 dogs killed? How about a video with 17 injured dogs? Can wittnesses remain anonymous? Do witnesses have to stand in front of the world and be heard or can they have their so called "friend" give testimony for them?


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

*Re: "Great Catches" Thread - Response from FMBB*

I agree with you.
Not to mention that:
1) Mals are becoming dangerously fast
2)The best of decoys have bad catches. 
3) Shit happens- these dogs are athletes in a contact sport. 

What I dont care for is the FMBB Board (via Geert Bouckaert) and their explanation/ statement that the dogs were already injured.


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