# Getting Homeowner's Insurance With Big Scary Dogs



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

In a couple years, probably after I'm done with vet school and I hopefully move away from Missouri (if I'm lucky), me and Long Suffering Husband would like to buy a house. Being as though the Malinois has jumped like 10 spots on the list of most popular breeds in just a year, I suspect it could only be a matter of time before insurance companies cross them off. I could always say my half husky half Rott is a husky mix, but they are getting black listed too. Two of the three have their CGCs (would like to test the third at some point soon). Any ideas which insurance companies either allow "dangerous breeds" with CGCs or even give discounts and have reasonable premiums?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

If you have military parents on either side, or military experience in your immediate family, I highly recommend USAA. They rock.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Oooh, good call! Yes, I have USAA for my auto insurance (from my dad who was in the Army for 22 years). So I assume they do not do any breed black listing? Any other companies?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Oooh, good call! Yes, I have USAA for my auto insurance (from my dad who was in the Army for 22 years). So I assume they do not do any breed black listing? Any other companies?


They've never asked me and I've never told them. I am not aware of any dog policy stuff. They'll do the free quotes and stuff easily, just call them and get a quote as it is. I love USAA.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My oldest daughter has a white pit with natural ears that are spotted black. She told her insurance man that Spirit was a Dalmation rescue.
I'll take my chances with a good Pit over a Dal anyday but the insurance companies don't see it the same.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i second that wholeheartedly, bob 8)


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I would go with "don't ask - don't tell"
Just tell them they are mixed breeds- that gives you lots of leeway!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I've heard of some people dealing with their insurance companies that they want specific mixes, not just a generic mixed breed. :roll: As I don't own yet, I don't know how this works, but do they do inspections of the property? If you made a claim for something, even something totally unrelated, if the agent saw the dog and thought you were full of it, would get dropped for fraud? :?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I've heard of some people dealing with their insurance companies that they want specific mixes, not just a generic mixed breed. :roll: As I don't own yet, I don't know how this works, but do they do inspections of the property? If you made a claim for something, even something totally unrelated, if the agent saw the dog and thought you were full of it, would get dropped for fraud? :?


Easy solution--have your dog attack and kill the agent. Dead men tell no tales.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

The only things I have had an insurance agent come and inspect is when I have said I had a woodstove or something. Seeing some of the "mislabeling" of dogs I have seen coming from pounds - I think you are off the hook. It's your word against theirs - how are you supposed to know you don't have a labradoodle, and Ibizan cross and a sheltie mix? :wink: In alot of mixed breeds it more of a "Heinz 57" situation anyways.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I also have USAA who insures all of my vehicles, homeowners and business insurance. I have a boarding kennel, they cover that, any potential dog-related "accidents" including hit by car, death of dog, dog bite, and people coming in/out who might slip and break their leg or etc - also obedience classes. If you're affiliated at all with the military they are the ones to go with. The other insurance company that I think is 'good with dogs' is State Farm.

molly


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Just in case there are folks out there who can't use USAA, any other relatively breed friendly companies out there besides State Farm?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Just as an FYI that's off-topic, if you are not military you cannot get insurance products from USAA, but you can get banking services from them. And they are awesome, even the benefits of the checking accounts are almost too good to be true. Great company, best customer service I have ever really encountered in a big company, and you save insane amounts of money with them.

www.usaa.com


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

This is a good topic. I agree with those who say mixed breed. In my case, I tell them my GSD is my service dog. If you read the Americans with Disabilites act, you will see that your dog DOES NOT have to be licensed as a service dog. Also, it is against the law for your carrier to ask what you need the dog for, or what your disability is. Another tid bit is once you find an insurace carrier willing to write the risk, stick with them as long as possible. People who shop their ins cov every year have a harder time than those who have stuck with their carrier & consequently built a good history.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

State Farm Insurance does not exclude any breed from homeowners liability coverage. They also don't underwrite based on breed, so you don't have to worry about penalties for specific kinds of dogs, everyone pays the same rates.

Depending on where you live, you might run into problems with agent bias against certain dog breeds. If the agent is a turd, all you usually have to do is call the area manager and have them straghten them out. I had to do this with my APBT when I was shopping for renters insurance.


edit: I think there may be exceptions/problems concerning insurability in BSL areas. 


Andy.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> People who shop their ins cov every year have a harder time than those who have stuck with their carrier & consequently built a good history.


I've heard some online horror stories of people with boxers and Dalmations (not just the typical big scary dogs, but ones who are making the black listed breed list as well) getting dropped from their carrier, even after years of loyal payment. 

I found a link that might be helpful to others if you cannot use USAA:

http://www.mprgroup.net/misc/insurance.html


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Maren, Usually they get dropped for other reasons like claims, or a change in underwriting status. Most carriers only ask about dogs when initially underwriting the risk, almost never on subsequent renewals.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My daughter was never asked. It wasn't until the agent came to the house for a totally different reason and saw the dog.er him.
He had no clue what he was looking at, only that this friendly dog was climbing all over him to get petted. 
This was after he told the daughter that he liked dogs.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

That's the best scenario, Bob! For the last couple of years I have noticed ins carriers are not as quick as they once were to jump on the bandwagon of excluding certain breeds. Let's all hope this continues. In California there used to be a "1 free bite rule". If your dog bit someone, the carrier would continue your coverage (depending on the circumstances, of course), then if the dog bit a second time, the animal wuld be excluded from liability coverage. The exclusion was challenged & did not hold up in court, so the carriers then had to discontinue that practice & automatically non-renew the policy following the 1st bite (again, depending on the circumstances).

Oh Maren, as far as the inspections go, tell your agent you need the inspector to make an appointment. That way, you can have all your ducks (or dogs) in a row before the inspector arrives. And yes, your policy can be considered null & void if you are caught in a lie. This is why half truths are a good thing!!! For instance, call your dogs mutts! No one is going to ask you what kind of mutt.


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

I use Nationwide for home, auto.....they have breed exemptions I'm sure, but GSDs are not one of them. It may vary from state to state as well. I'm in Connecticut. You will have to look into it when the time comes. Good luck.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

My Homeowner's Insurance is through Kemper. They've never asked if I have any pets.


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

Oh my...I second the State Farm.

My experience with this was (YEAH, get THIS one) that I had moved and turned my home into a rental. In doing so, of course had to go through insurance renewal/changes. The company, I had been with for 20 years, sent my agent out to "inspect". Apparently, when doing so, he saw the big MoJo GSD out in the front yard, sitting by my front porch. This "inspection" of course was all unbeknownst to me.

I called him one day, with a question about my bill, as it had changed significantly. HIS RESPONSE was this:

Michele, I've been meaning to call you. Go ahead and disregard that bill, as we are canceling your insurance policy effective immediately.

I'm like "Excuse me?" 

And he goes on to tell me about his drive by, seeing the GSD in the yard and it was strict company policy in that he adhere to the black listed dogs, GSD included. At that time I had no idea the black list even existed, they sure don't talk about it in the policy description...I inquired how did he know it was my dog? What if it had been a stray? My sister's dog?

He then said "Is it your dog?" And of course I responded "yes" and he then apologized and went into the company policy spheel. 

I HAD been a loyal paying customer for 20 years!!! No notice, no nothing, just a big "BY THE WAY, YOURE BEING CANCELED!"

Needless to say, I took it all up with the Humane Society of the United States and the big wig insurance auditor people, filed a formal complaint for the manner in which that company (FARM BUREAU) handled the situation. 

A few weeks later, I received a call from some supervisor, manager man from Farm Bureau, stating that they could put a rider on my policy, covering everything but the dog, YADADAAAAA. I told him thanks but no thanks. I wouldn't go back to their company and their POLICIES (whatever happened to quality customer service?) if they PAID me to come back. My filed complaint must have become a paper on HIS desk.

Thank god for State Farm. They take the dogs on a case by case basis.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks for sharing, Michele. I've heard that's not altogether uncommon. How sad and what a pain. GSDs are only one of most popular breeds in the country. :roll: At least we now know what company to avoid.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I have never had an issue with State Farm and specifically asked when I got my policy.

I also never had an issue with Farmers and even had a dog related claim. I told State Farm about the claim on Farmers when I got the State Farm policy. They had no issues because it was a freak accident and documented as such (old man accidently hit dog in mouth and tore surface skin but because he was diabetic with poor circulation and also had paper thin skin, The tear was only on one side of the hand. I took him to the doctor and it was treated as a "dog bite". I felt horrible but he was adamant the dog did NOT bite him)

The only issue I have ever had with State Farm was when we were younger and lived in some houses withotu central forced air heat (they would not ensure vented natural gas space heaters) 

That said, I have ALWAYS been extremely reponsible about my dogs. Under the right conditions any dog can bite. A loose dog can also kill someone indirectly by causing a car crash.

I do wonder how they handle dogs with bite work training? We don't do bitework. I don't have a personal issue with dog sport, nor do I believe the dogs doing bite work are more likely to bite (actually they are probably safer) just not the time and not something I want on the books for a SAR dog.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Michelle: You could have also taken the issue up with your insurance comissioner because it is against the law for an insurer to cancel your policy like that, unless you lied on the application! If the carrier changes underwriting conditions they can non-renew you, providing they give you 45 days prior written notice.


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

Thank you Susan! Insurance Commissioner (AKA: Insurance Big Wig Auditor People from my previous post here...I just couldn't remember the official title!)  

Yes. I know, and my complaint was directly related to that, policy changes without notice, etc. Thus the call from the manager guy at the company offering me a "new" policy with the rider (ie: no coverage for any dog incidents). Hopefully it did make a "mark" on their record though, I never followed up with the commissioner, nor did I care to.

What a fiasco. Bottom line, I learned to dislike any and everything to do with insurance even more than I did before. Kudos? To State Farm for taking dog by dog basis...as for the agents? Insurance. Man. I know it serves a purpose, but I truly believe the way the industry is run...well, I'll opt to not hijack this thread.


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

> Hopefully it did make a "mark" on their record though, I never followed up with the commissioner, nor did I care to.



Hahahaha! Many insurance companies bail after big storms and won't pay off people. Their "punishment"? They just can't sell anymore insurance in this state....for a period of years.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Michelle, I have to completely agree with you. In California, our insurance comissioner was caught taking big bucks from the insurance carriers into a private account for himself after the Northridge earthquake so that he would allow the carriers to wholesale deny claims. Bunch of crooks. I am sorry to highjack the thread, but this is a real sore subject for me. Look what has happened after Katrina. Wind damage is covered, so the carriers claim the damage is rising waters which is not covered on homeowners policies. Thanks goodness it has finally been determined the damage was initially caused by wind so the carriers will hopefully be forced to pay. (Flood coverage is a national program which provides very minimal coverage).


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Michelle, I have to completely agree with you. In California, our insurance comissioner was caught taking big bucks from the insurance carriers into a private account for himself after the Northridge earthquake so that he would allow the carriers to wholesale deny claims. Bunch of crooks. I am sorry to highjack the thread, but this is a real sore subject for me. Look what has happened after Katrina. Wind damage is covered, so the carriers claim the damage is rising waters which is not covered on homeowners policies. Thanks goodness it has finally been determined the damage was initially caused by wind so the carriers will hopefully be forced to pay. (Flood coverage is a national program which provides very minimal coverage).


Oh, Katrina was AWESOME! No insurance claims were really needed. Barbara Bush said so!



> "And so many of the people in the arena here, you
> know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
> chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sort of like Marie Antoinette "let them eat cake"


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