# Vision for new breeder



## Maxx Starr Vaughan (May 29, 2007)

I don’t know how to place this question but what i wanted to find out is what vision each of you as new breeders placed upon yourselves as goals for the future. :-k 

I have a few ideas which naturally i am moving slowly too but wanted to know perhaps how others work. 

As i am new AND still well learning which dogs are great, which lines are strong just familiarizing myself with DDR dogs, yet to conquer the journey of Czech lines etc

Does anyone base their breeding on Genotype and or Stenotype(sp?)?
if so what are some pointers perhaps?
Does anyone research into the DNA also?
Do you find as you continue through your breeding and litters that you vision altered from the first original goal?

sorry for dumb questions but just want to get an idea how working line breeders are accomplishing their breeding vision or mottos or goals!

thanks
MSV


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Breeding dogs might be the most egotistical thing humans do with dogs. So few breeders are actually concerned with improving the breed, just simply want to create something and make a few dollars.

I have had five litters of puppies over the last 15 years. It is easily the most stressful thing I do in dogs. You can't predict anything with a lot of certainly. You do your research, test and test and more tests. But, perhaps the greatest tool I use in breeding is STEALING. See what other successful breeders have done, and find out what they know.

If you see a dog you really like, research those genetics, ask yourself what it is you like about that dog. Then ask yourself if the reasons you like the dog are valid reasons for breeding more dogs. A big DDR Head? Is not a reason to breed. Beautiful sable and thick bones? Is not a reason for breeding.

Up until 1988 I think, the DDR registry kept Stud Books with detailed information for breeding. You could see how many times a dog like Ingo Rudigen {Sp} was bred, produced what, hip problems in the progeny, testicle problems in the progeny etc.. This was very useful for health research. As most of the CZECH dogs were all originally DDR lines. 

The biggest problem with these lines now, is so few DDR kennels are left carrying on the old genetics which are so unique to the GSD dog. Most CZECH AND SLOVAK kennels have made it their goal to simply farm dogs for US sales. Most US trainers and Schutzhund competitors would not like the old DDR and CZECH working chararcters, as they were slow to mature, high defense and very civil. Some were very hard to handle as well. So, many Breeders have watered down the genetics to suit the tastes of their consumers in the US. You now have many Black and Red CZECH Dog of very light bone, with much weaker temperaments than before. Because, they need more prey driven and compliant dogs for competition.

I used to scratch my head years ago, when a friend would want one of these dogs so they could compete. They were BORDER PATROL DOGS. High alert, sharp, man stoppers. How do you expect to score high with this kind of dog? My first breeding bitch I imported directly from a breeder who was a civilian breeding for the Pohranicni Straze. She was four years old and trained like a Male Border Patrol dog. Stable yet would kill a person she felt deserved it. She ended up having two litters for me, several Police Dogs too. But, most pups the average pet owner couldn't handle. I stopped breeding for several years. Now, I have a system to support my puppies. But it is still not without anxiety as you give a pup with strong working genetics away, you still have to be committed to that pup for a long time.

The world doesn't need more puppies, it needs better breeders.

Bryan


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bryan Colletti said:


> Breeding dogs might be the most egotistical thing humans do with dogs. So few breeders are actually concerned with improving the breed, just simply want to create something and make a few dollars.
> 
> I have had five litters of puppies over the last 15 years. It is easily the most stressful thing I do in dogs. You can't predict anything with a lot of certainly. You do your research, test and test and more tests. But, perhaps the greatest tool I use in breeding is STEALING. See what other successful breeders have done, and find out what they know.
> 
> ...


beautifully stated bryan =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

Nice post Bryan,

I've just done another 12hr shift, come home and kicked back with a beer, then read your post.
Thanks for taking the time, really interesting.

Mark
(Knackered Bobby)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You need to know what you are looking at to even start breeding. There are so many things that you need to know, I certainly don't think a message board is going to enlighten you.

You can start by working some dogs, work your dogs, talk to different people about why they got their dog, so you can get an idea of what kind of dogs make people really happy, and then check out the pedigree.

In about 5-10 years, you can come back and answer your own questions

Oh yea, and what Bryan said.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

:-$(psssst....everybody...this is why I hang out with Bryan!):-$


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

can we import him to Nebraska???????? please??? or you, Konnie??? or ANYONE???? 

oops--we already HAVE "anyone"--forget that.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

ann freier said:


> can we import him to Nebraska???????? please??? or you, Konnie??? or ANYONE????
> 
> oops--we already HAVE "anyone"--forget that.


Maybe you should just move here!


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Such a kind offer indeed But, I'm a full time single dad, so dogs come second in my life, a very close second mind you. Konnie is a great host though and we do some unique training out here, very progressive with diverse goals. I don't just steal genetic wisdom from breeders, we fuse together training styles from all over too. We openly discuss quite a bit of theory and allow for folks to reach sensible conclusions to training issues. I'm too ADD to become stuck in one idea. Sort of like a big puppy myself.

Have fun out there in Cornhusker country. Perhaps the most boring twelve hour drive I ever did was crossing your state

Be at peace,
Bryan


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Just a few of Bryan's statements that stood out to my eye.



> Now, I have a system to support my puppies.


Great piece of wisdom for balance in your program! 



> The world doesn't need more puppies, it needs better breeders.


I believe that's the number one way to "improve the breed" today.



> I don't just steal genetic wisdom from breeders, we fuse together training styles from all over too.


That willingness to employ borrowed techniques seems to me more often found among horse trainers than canine trainers. Dog trainers can tend to be a little more hardheaded, I think.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

That willingness to employ borrowed techniques seems to me more often found among horse trainers than canine trainers. Dog trainers can tend to be a little more hardheaded, I think.[/QUOTE]


ahhhhhh Daryl, like the name, had a puppy with that name

Now concerning training techniques, the same principles apply with my beliefs on breeding. If I see something that works for a trainer and I really like it, I take it, perhaps reshape it a bit, and then ultimately start employing the idea into my training.

I can afford to be alot looser with my training, because I'm not shooting for the highest score at the top competitions. Those folks focused on such incrediable goals must conform to a program that a club uses, so the decoy, trainer and handler are all on the same page. You need predictable results. In many regards alot of sport training may become cookie cutter in practice, but still very difficult with a the changes in temperaments of each individual dog. 

I simply raise working dogs, so my pups can be obnoxious if they want.

I also don't answer to anyone but myself. So, there is no risk of pissing off the training director should I choose to go off on my maverick ways. 

You must also keep in mind how star struck alot of handlers get, seminar junkies and the such. Once they fall in love, I have met handlers that will not take in any new information, unless it's from {for example, Mike Ellis} I like Mike, just an example of groupie love 

I find it fascinating aimlessly wandering between the sport and police worlds.


Bryan


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I find it fascinating aimlessly wandering between the sport and police worlds.

Yes, I too know the wandering. Better for your soul.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

*Come on Maxx, some dialogue*

You have gotten some feedback, let's here some more on your end. I'm curious what you have in that mind of yours. Are you competing in any dog sports, or producing any working dogs for SAR or Police? 

I understand you are young, which I find fascinating. I suppose you could be on a Video Game board. But, you are here asking sincere questions, putting forth your intent for the entire board to react to.

What are you working goals?

Do you have a good experienced training support system? These pups from the lines you are talking about will show sharpness are a very early age. This genetic predisposition to defensive traits will ultimately provide you with a tipping point, if you don't properly guide these genetics through this period you will be left with very sharp and nervy dogs. Something to consider.

Be at peace,
Bryan


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bryan Colletti said:


> Such a kind offer indeed But, I'm a full time single dad, so dogs come second in my life, a very close second mind you. Konnie is a great host though and we do some unique training out here, very progressive with diverse goals. I don't just steal genetic wisdom from breeders, we fuse together training styles from all over too. We openly discuss quite a bit of theory and allow for folks to reach sensible conclusions to training issues. I'm too ADD to become stuck in one idea. Sort of like a big puppy myself.
> 
> Have fun out there in Cornhusker country. Perhaps the most boring twelve hour drive I ever did was crossing your state
> 
> ...


ahhh--you must've been down on I-80, you need to come up north where it's big old rolling hills. oh--and kansas is actually worse  if you ever get back out here (or even close, like south dakota or NW iowa), give me a call--i'll show you the pretty part of nebraska!

and if i ever make it that far east, i'll sure look you guys up!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:i'll show you the pretty part of nebraska!

This needs to move into the mythology section.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:i'll show you the pretty part of nebraska!
> 
> This needs to move into the mythology section.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Back off Jeff, A woman has kindly invited me to Nebraska. Pretty close to a date I think. Personally, all I have ever seen there was miles of corn, a house, several more miles of corn, a truck stop, several more miles of corn, a State Trooper, several more mile of Corn.

So go get you own Nebraska tour guide Jeff

Lucky! {Napolean}

Bryan


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Sorry, completely missed that, I would never cockblock. My apologies.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sorry, completely missed that, I would never cockblock. My apologies.


I almost did a spittake when I read that =;


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## Maxx Starr Vaughan (May 29, 2007)

Thank you Brian this is very well put and exactly why i asked this question... i think there are too many people breeding just for the market but the real value of the dogs are lacking today.

I might have to spend some library time too i think the internet and chatting to people might not be enough.. i guess looking for both the pisitive and negative in dogs is something i need to go out and look into.

Jeff i think you're right 10 years from now i probably will answer this question myself. i guess i just like to know and get an idea where everyone started at when they were beginning it all!

Brian are you in US or Oz?


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Brian are you in US or Oz?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hello again Maxx,

I live in the US, though some years ago when I used to go attend Grateful Dead shows, I am pretty sure I visited the Land of Oz once or twice

Bryan 

www.k9cs.org

[email protected]


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

tho he could visit nebraska, which might end up being BETTER than oz (at least the part of NE where i happen to live...)

[http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1176/1022079387_9b93431a03.jpg /]

or

[http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1041/1022079319_3fa6aa6a6a.jpg /]


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