# New Class.



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I told the admin I would remain working until March of 2013, unless they got tired of me or I got tired of them. For personal reasons, I would prefer to work that long. At any rate, I have three classes already scheduled. The first will be a drug dog class. I'll have 5 Troopers and a deputy from a local county sheriff office. The class will start in May on a date yet to be determined. That means I don't have any dogs yet, ha ha. It's a good deal for the deputy, my classes are free, for sworn law enforcement, on a space available basis. 

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I got one for you.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

How old and how much, ha ha
Send me a PM Please if you are serioius.

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Finally, my new class starts today. I would have preferred the date I originally proposed, March 15, instead of the dog days of Summer, but a class is a class. Five Troopers, 4 new dogs, 1 dual purpose being recycled and 1 Deputy Sheriff with a new green dog. Let the fun begin (12, noon, don't be late or you get kennel care for the 1st week.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Noon! Who starts at noon in the summer? I'd suggest you train at night but I know your bed time is at 8=D>


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> I told the admin I would remain working until March of 2013, unless they got tired of me or I got tired of them. For personal reasons, I would prefer to work that long. At any rate, I have three classes already scheduled. The first will be a drug dog class. I'll have 5 Troopers and a deputy from a local county sheriff office. The class will start in May on a date yet to be determined. That means I don't have any dogs yet, ha ha. It's a good deal for the deputy, my classes are free, for sworn law enforcement, on a space available basis.
> 
> DFrost



Who are you kidding, March 2013? 
You ain't never going to retire...;-)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

March of 2013 if not before. I'll cover all bets.

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Noon! Who starts at noon in the summer? I'd suggest you train at night but I know your bed time is at 8=D>


Just for your information, by bedtime is at 9. We will be working some nights, other than that we will carry an ice chest and sweat a lot.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David Frost said:


> We will be working some nights, other than that we will carry an ice chest and sweat a lot.
> 
> DFrost


 Just what I like to hear. Get em used to what's coming. Good to see you didn't go soft over the years. Of course, the trainer has to stay cool ya know.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

First couple of days is mostly classroom. Today they got the; don't take it personal and it's not rocket science speech. The "not rocket science" speech basically tells them there are only a few things the dog really cares about; eating, eliminating, procreating and chasing that stupid ball. We'll take care of the chasing ball thing and the eating. The rest we more or less control. ha ha. I only know one of the handlers. It's his third dog. He refuses to test for SGT because he doesn't want to lose the dog. He's one heck of a drug man so the Admin let's him have the dog if that's what he wants. The other 5 I had never met until I started putting this class together. 

DFrost


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

id love to be in that class .... maybe next lift time .... i just can't give up this wonderful Cable Gig ... its just toooooo good ](*,)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> First couple of days is mostly classroom. Today they got the; don't take it personal and it's not rocket science speech. The "not rocket science" speech basically tells them there are only a few things the dog really cares about; eating, eliminating, procreating and chasing that stupid ball. We'll take care of the chasing ball thing and the eating. The rest we more or less control. ha ha. I only know one of the handlers. It's his third dog. He refuses to test for SGT because he doesn't want to lose the dog. He's one heck of a drug man so the Admin let's him have the dog if that's what he wants. The other 5 I had never met until I started putting this class together.
> 
> DFrost



I always started new classes by telling them that the biggest problem the dog will have is the turd stuck on the other end of the leash.
Amazing how pet folks in a basic ob class can get their panties in a bunch. :grin:


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

. Aaaaaaah, I start my (1) dog dual purpose class Monday! Don't you just wish your class was as large, I mean small Ha, Haaaaaaaaaaaa!!
. I am practicing the throw chain technique as I write, green dog, green handler, have to get that accuracy back as I am sure I am going to need it often throughout the course. LMAO!!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David graduated to the specialty throw coin years ago. When you got good aim you don't worry about losing it.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I still have and use, that silver dollar. ha ha

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David Frost said:


> I still have and use, that silver dollar. ha ha
> 
> DFrost


 George Washington David Frost.:razz:


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Phil Dodson said:


> . Aaaaaaah, I start my (1) dog dual purpose class Monday! Don't you just wish your class was as large, I mean small Ha, Haaaaaaaaaaaa!!
> . I am practicing the throw chain technique as I write, green dog, green handler, have to get that accuracy back as I am sure I am going to need it often throughout the course. LMAO!!


 
A throw chain might work better than a hat with a packet of shot sewn into it... Thanks Phil!!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

The first week is over. While I wn't bore you with week-to-week updates, I have discovered I have, apparently, a know-it-all within this class. I know how I used to react in the old days when that would happen, it will be interesting to me to see how I react in the new and improved, gentler State Patrol. ha ha.
My only comment to him yesterday when we took the dogs out for the first time as a group was; "I can see by your conversation you have lots of experience. I do ask though that you put your choke chain on correctly and set a good example". I think that miffed him. I sure hope not, I'm such a sensitive person.

DFrost


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

David Frost said:


> The first week is over. While I wn't bore you with week-to-week updates, I have discovered I have, apparently, a know-it-all within this class. I know how I used to react in the old days when that would happen, it will be interesting to me to see how I react in the new and improved, gentler State Patrol. ha ha.
> My only comment to him yesterday when we took the dogs out for the first time as a group was; "I can see by your conversation you have lots of experience. I do ask though that you put your choke chain on correctly and set a good example". I think that miffed him. I sure hope not, I'm such a sensitive person.
> 
> DFrost


LMAO thats hilarious!!! Yeah your a real sap man LOL


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I wanted to start this class in March. The administration had other plans. That's working out real good for me. Yesterday it was 101, heat index of 112. Today ---- more of the same. I'm soooooo lucky.

DFrost


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

So David I have a question. I've been working with some LE handlers that are training their narc dogs. And all use scented rags for the source of odor. The question is by handling these rags with their hands. Are they not becoming contaiminated? Or is this a standard training for this type of detection
No scented throws, no boxes, no wall and all known hidden searches. Just wondering!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> all use scented rags for the source of odor. The question is by handling these rags with their hands. Are they not becoming contaiminated? Or is this a standard training for this type of detection
> No scented throws, no boxes, no wall and all known hidden searches. Just wondering!


I don't use scented articles, tugs, toys etc. The reward is the reward, drugs are drugs. I can see where there would be a contamination problem with a handler handling drugs or drug scented articles. I use old fashioned boxes to teach the first odor and response. After that, it's to the field and actual searches. The handler will know the location of new odors. Once the dog has demonstrated proficiency on the odor, the handler will no longer know the location.

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

David Frost said:


> I wanted to start this class in March. The administration had other plans. That's working out real good for me. Yesterday it was 101, heat index of 112. Today ---- more of the same. I'm soooooo lucky.
> 
> DFrost


Today was about the same, 101 with a heat index of 108, so actually it cooled down just a little. I have relented a little and we are working in the aviation hanger. It's does not have a/c but it does have a large exhaust fan. Yesterday and today were the first days on odor. Each dog ran 25 trials yesterday and 35 today. I run sets of 5 with a 3 box choice. It was brutal. I'm getting to damn old for this.

DFrost


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

David, when originally teach the odor, do you do any pairing with a known to the dog or how to you teach a specific odor. When you put out the boxes, does just 1 have the odor and you just teach the dog to find the box that has an odor (whatever you're training for) and the other 2 are empty and "virgin" boxes that have never held that scent? We started by pairing the odor with a food object and then took the food away once the dog learned the odor. We have done searches with 20 boxes with only 1 containing target odor, have moved to outside searches, started on vehicles and are stagnant now due to 119 degree weather. We obviously cannot use real drugs odors but use the pseudo ones that can be purchased. Are we teaching wrong? I really value your experience. Thanks


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

" We obviously cannot use real drugs odors but use the pseudo ones that can be purchased. Are we teaching wrong?"

 OH OH!


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks a lot Bob! You had to start the fire again I see!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm sure David will put it out. ;-)


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Ya Bob, you obviously did not read the question
..dah. the question was about pairing something dog is already familiar with along with target odor or teach odor blind. Not everyone is out to make funnies. Have you noticed all the people suddenly starting to post again...even the leerburg people


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My "humor" was aimed at the fact that everyone here knows that David is very much against using Pseudo. Not against the actual content of the post.
No ill intent meant. ....honest! :-D :wink:


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

My bad. wink wink Point taken Bob. The problem is non-LE can't get the real stuff legally unless David is willing to send me a stash via the USPS. Think he'd be willing to do that.......since he's so opposed to psuedo? I have vicodin but don't think that's a high priority drug to look for. Anyone on here selling drugs? I just need a little weed right now - as that's all we're training for right now. Maybe ebay? Craigslist?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If I was still living in my old hood......well...forget that. :grin:
I do understand your concerns. When I was in SAR I had good access thorough the team for HRD "stuff' but no more.
I did a demo at one of my grandaughter's schools and imprinted Thunder on tobacco. That's all I'm about now but it sure shook up a few kids walking by him in the halls. :twisted:


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

I originally wanted to do cadaver work but was given 100 different reasons why I couldn't - no new members being accepted, no access except to those already members to remains, no one wants to work with a newbie, etc, etc, etc. So I found a trainer to teach real detection (ok fake drugs) so I could feel like I was able to do something useful down the road, maybe. It's so hard to break into anything as a newbie cuz no one wants to deal with you or answer your stupid questions.

My offer still stands for the drugs.......any sellers?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Laney Rein said:


> When you put out the boxes, does just 1 have the odor and you just teach the dog to find the box that has an odor (whatever you're training for) and the other 2 are empty and "virgin" boxes that have never held that scent? We started by pairing the odor with a food object and then took the food away once the dog learned the odor. We have done searches with 20 boxes with only 1 containing target odor, have moved to outside searches, started on vehicles and are stagnant now due to 119 degree weather. We obviously cannot use real drugs odors but use the pseudo ones that can be purchased. Are we teaching wrong? I really value your experience. Thanks


I start with one box. The first 25 trials. Only one odor with the reward. After 25 trials I go to three boxes. I rarely go more than 3 boxes because once the dog has learned the first odor, I'm usually done with boxes and go into more realistic scenarios. 

They were teasing you about the other part of your question. I'm usually not in the habit of telling other trainers they are wrong. However, I am never bashful about my opinion on two specific areas of PSD training. The use of pseudo drugs and bark and hold. ha ha. I may be a dick and a dinosaur, but if nothing else I'm consistent. I do not believe in the use of pseudo. I've always said, using pseudo drugs is like using blanks at the firing range. A lot of smoke and noise that really has no benefit. I've heard many excuses about why people use them. At any rate, I don't and won't use them.

DFrost


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

So, since I'm not LE and not training with LE I guess I could risk driving to south Phoenix and buying some of the real thing. Do you think when I get arrested they'll believe me when I tell them I was just buying to train my dog on the stuff? Have you heard that excuse before? Maybe if I have the dog in the truck when I do it they'll believe me. This would be a great one for one of those TV cop shows.

When you originally teach the 1 box, do you have the handler lead the dog to the box or? to give them the idea of where to hit - since you're not pairing the odor? Do you ever video any of your training sessions? Would sure be interesting to be able to attend a school and learn the "correct accepted" method of training. At least the scent part.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Laney Rein said:


> Do you think when I get arrested they'll believe me when I tell them I was just buying to train my dog on the stuff?
> 
> When you originally teach the 1 box, do you have the handler lead the dog to the box or? to give them the idea of where to hit Do you ever video any of your training sessions? Would sure be interesting to be able to attend a school and learn the "correct accepted" method of training. At least the scent part.


NOOOOOOO, they will not believe you. 

I didn't go back and read my post, but I must have misspoke or I wasn't clear. I do pair the odor with the toy, I don't scent toys. To get a dog to go to the box, I let them see me put the toy in the box. The marijuana would also be in the box. It's very simple; the handler tells the dog "find it" the dog goes to the box because he knows that is where it's located. He's told good boy and given the ball. Essentially, the dog is learning the "find it" command, the odor of marijuana and being reinforced. Like I've said in the past, it ain't rocket science.

No, I do not video my training. In fact, during orientation, I tell handlers they may take pictures, they may take short videos. They will NOT post them on Facebook or any other similar type sites. Do I use video? Yes, on occasion. Usually to show a handler where he/she is messing up. 

I think it would be wise for you to attend a school of some sort. I hear there are a couple of pretty good ones out there.

DFrost


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Thanks for answering the pairing question. I can understand your reasoning behind not posting your training videos either. I just can't understand why my excuse of training my dog, wouldn't be a viable excuse, if I were to get arrested???? Would name dropping be effective?

I have tried several times, as well as other folks in the area, to get hold of the Bob S. (Sallomi or ????) of American K9 that moved here from back east for training, and no one can get him to return phone calls or emails. There is a good Sch/protection dog trainer that I know, but that is not an area I want to work. So guess, like you suggest, will be looking for some other form of education in order to get the "correct" training.

Thanks for the info.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

This was the end of the first week we really worked the dogs. Geez it was hot, really brutal. On a good note, I'm really pleased with the dogs. This is always the most interesting part of the class for me. I enjoy watching the lightbulb come on when it comes to odor/response. Only 8 more weeks to go, ha ha. I'm already planning my next class.

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Laney Rein said:


> . I just can't understand why my excuse of training my dog, wouldn't be a viable excuse, if I were to get arrested???? Would name dropping be effective?
> 
> .


As for name dropping. I always tell people that know me, if they are stopped by a Trooper you may well be taking a chance dropping my name. If the cruiser is marked K9, your chances improve. I know this may be hard to believe but there are those out there that think I'm a bit egocentric and a prick. I know, I know I can't figure it out either.

As for the drugs ---- Get a license. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

With the help of Ms Connie, I wanted to post a picture of one of the dogs in my current class. This was the cheapest dog in the class - FREE-. Someone elses "throw-away" is going to work for a living.










DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

And thrilled to get the job, I betcha!!! 8)


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Since the last class, the dog that keeps sticking in my mind is that female mal that loved the hand to hand combat so much, sure would be nice somewhere down the road to get a litter out of her after retirement.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

It would have to be immaculate conception revisited, all my females have been spayed.

DFrost


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

guess that extinguishes that idea then........


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> With the help of Ms Connie, I wanted to post a picture of one of the dogs in my current class. This was the cheapest dog in the class - FREE-. Someone elses "throw-away" is going to work for a living.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool. What was the supposed problem with the dog? Did it come from a civilian?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Patrick Murray said:


> Cool. What was the supposed problem with the dog? Did it come from a civilian?


"It just has too much energy". "All it wants to do is play". etc, etc, etc, It's 2 years old. Great hips, had been on heartworm prevtative and housebroken. Really a great dog. I don't k now if she'll go dual purpose. I haven't really given much thought. Nothing we've come across in training such as floor surface, moving vehicles, odd noises etc have any effect on her. She will however be a very good drug dog. The original owner did purchase her from a breeder. She is supposedly from imported parents. I don't know the particulars. I didn't ask, and they didn't tell, ha ha. I gave them a "reciept for donation in kind" that can be used for tax purposes.

DFrost


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Nice David. A win-win for everybody!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

End of week 4, 3rd week with the dogs. The weather has been miserable, but I'm pretty pleased with the class. We are on three odors, the only one left is heroin. Of course we are at a basic search level but it's looking good. I'm really pleased with all the dogs in this class. I have two dogs I purchased from a new (for me) vendor. The price was right and I really really like the dogs. I'm also proud of my freebie (the picture I posted) she may not be the star of the show (yet) but you can't tell her from the ones with dollar signs behind their names. ha ha. More of the same next week, more difficult vehicle and tight rooms. 

DFrost


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## Jeff Zimmerle (Feb 15, 2011)

Please tell me how many different odors can a dog be effectively trained on, what are the most common. Thanks Jeff


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

The number is quite high, I've personally trained, with a high proficiency, on as many as 21 different odors. With drugs though we train the basic 4; marijuana, cocaine, meth and heroin.

DFrost


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

We work MJ , meth , coke , crack , herion and opium seperately even though most dogs imprinted on coke will get crack and herion will get opium or vice versa . For years though herion was getting pretty tough to find around here but it's making a comeback . 

A little off topic David but are you working any Pitbulls in the class ? We had to stop because the brains kept exploding .


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jim Nash said:


> We work MJ , meth , coke , crack , herion and opium seperately even though most dogs imprinted on coke will get crack and herion will get opium or vice versa . For years though herion was getting pretty tough to find around here but it's making a comeback .
> 
> A little off topic David but are you working any Pitbulls in the class ? We had to stop because the brains kept exploding .


I always throw some crack out, after they are trained on coke. I just don't issue it to the handlers. I've never seen a dog yet that didn't generalize to crack. 

No Pits in this class. The possibility of exploding brains was just too much for me, ha ha ha.

DFrost


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Cool . I hate bomb dog training to begin with . One shouldn't have to worry about the dog explodeing too .


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## Jeff Zimmerle (Feb 15, 2011)

Are there more different odors to teach for an explosives dog vs a narcotics trained dog, is the teaching concept the same or is one more difficult? Thanks


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Zimmerle said:


> Are there more different odors to teach for an explosives dog vs a narcotics trained dog, is the teaching concept the same or is one more difficult? Thanks


Basically, the training is the same; search, odor, response. There are deployment differences. With explosives I generally teach 14 different compounds, so yes there are more odors v. 4 drug odors.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David Frost said:


> No Pits in this class. The possibility of exploding brains was just too much for me, ha ha ha.
> 
> DFrost


 Are you up to speed on that one, David?:-D](*,)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Are you up to speed on that one, David?:-D](*,)



Ha ha, yes sir. In fact, I've learned more about pits and dobes in the last few days than I ever wanted to know, ha ha.

DFrost


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

David Frost said:


> For personal reasons, I would prefer to work that long.
> DFrost


david, i've held off on commenting as long as i could. but. 

you're not just waiting til Roger dies, are you?

and how does your know-it-all trooper take the heat?  :-\"


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

ha ha, well I don't know about Roger, although he is resting comfortably in my easy chair as we speak. My know it all has seen best to keep it to himself. I think he figured out that I do NOT respond well to " but my last trainer said to.........."

DFrost


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

who'd a thunk you'd let that mutt in your easy chair??   is he still hiding the paper?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Actually, he's gotten better about hiding it. I trade him a doggie snack for the paper. Who knew treats would work so well. In fact, some morning I get two or three papers.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Actually, he's gotten better about hiding it. I trade him a doggie snack for the paper. Who knew treats would work so well. In fact, some morning I get two or three papers.
> 
> DFrost



Nice. Sell em back to the neighbors.:lol: That dog will pay for himself in no time.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

A handler from a neighboring county called and asked if I would take a look at his dog. Said he was having some problems and wasn't sure what was going on. I was told the dual purpose, GSD, had certified on two occasions with one of the alphabet certification agencies. With a class in session, and in our 5th week, I said sure come on down. It's a good deal for them because it's free. ha ha. I have a handler in this class, from an outside department anyway. The first day I looked at the dog, Tuesday, we were working vehicle searches. I was using cocaine and meth during this training exercise. Since the dog had certified on two seperate occasion, I figured neither odor would be a problem. I told the handler, I just wanted to watch him work his dog, then I'd get an idea of what was going on. I gave him the perimeter of the search and he began. It was a basic level search, as this was just our 4th week on odor, 6 vehicles, two targets, both 15 grams. What I observed was painful. the handler snatched, jerked and muttered. He was very forceful with the leash and I had to be standing next to hear anything at all. The dog passed both targets, but I had the handler come back to the area and at least get the target. My first impression of the dog was; he wanted to be anywhere, but here. My adjunct instructor whispered to me; "that was painful to watch". During our discussion, he told me the department bought the dog from a vendor that has been doing business in the state. He said they paid 10K for the dog, untrained. I was truly stunned, and told the handler so. He worked with us the rest of the week. I really don't know if there is anything left of the dog to salvage. again, the impression I get is; I want to be anywhere but here. I'm sure, when my next class is being formed, he'll ask me if I am interested in any dogs. I've never purchased any from him, and this convinced me I doubt I ever will. Painful to say the least. 

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Dog never had a chance.

We have some waiting for you when you get the itch to come down. 40% off the other guys' price.:-\" I gaurantee they'll want to be there. LOL


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

David, did anything change during the week? Was there ever a chance for you to indirectly say something about "over handling" a dog and the consequences thereof? I hate to think of where this dog might wind up now that it's been labeled a horrible dog when it sounds more like someone who shouldn't be handling. Or did I misread this?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Laney Rein said:


> David, did anything change during the week? Was there ever a chance for you to indirectly say something about "over handling" a dog and the consequences thereof? I hate to think of where this dog might wind up now that it's been labeled a horrible dog when it sounds more like someone who shouldn't be handling. Or did I misread this?


I watched the first time without comment, to see what was going on. You can bet there were many comments about over handling and other things after my observation. I too hate to think what might happen. I'm going to try a couple of exercises but truthfully, I think it's too late. We'll see.

DFrost


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Any new class updates?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm interested in knowing what happened with this dog. Was something going on behind the scenes where the anywhere but here was perhaps a misread because the "here" involved the handler?

I tend to take first impressions seriously and under those circumstances I would expect that the handler was on his best behavior. For you to observe what you stated makes me question what exactly was taking place separate from that. I can't imagine that the dog was purchased if it showed like that upon the initial presentation/testing.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

There was some improvement in the "visiting" dog. I insisted the handler show a bit more energy and I told him not to be so controlling. Allowing the dog some independance and not smothering him was starting to pay off. The handler could only work with me for two weeks (his departments decision) and there was progress. I fear the damage done will never be completely corrected, but who knows. 

The class has undergone their certification yesterday and today.They didn't know they were doing and breezed through it without a hitch. Next week will be training aid issue and just some polish. Graduation is Friday the 9th. I'm proud of this bunch. The dogs and handlers really look good. 

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David Frost said:


> The class has undergone their certification yesterday and today.They didn't know they were doing and breezed through it without a hitch.
> DFrost



You give them time to think about it and they'll screw up every time. Did you tell them it was cert day or just inform them after it was all done?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

They were told it was a mock certification. My assistant instructor for this class said she had my notes for setting up the certification. She told the class she'd set one up just like it, if they didn't say anything. they agreed. When it was over she told them it was the official certification. Sneaky devilette, ha ha. 

DFrost


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

she's gotta be good--they believed her!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Them wimmins can lie reeel good sometimes. :lol::wink:


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

and those men can be suuuuch suckers sometimes, hehehe


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

What's yer point? :lol::lol: ;-)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Today was graduation day. Yayyy. The admin staff attended, I'm sure it was because they were proud of the handlers accomplishments and had nothing to do with Channel 2 and 4 being there. The Sheriff of the county dog I had in this class was there as well. It was a nice ceremony. Each were given a certificate, a letter of certification and a badge for the dog. The Sherriff had brought a badge for the deputy's dog so I could give him one as well. They presented me a really nice momento. It was etched glass with the etching of GSD heads, the names of the handlers and dogs and the saying "Lead follow or get the Hell out of the way" etched on the top of the glass. Hmmm don't know where they heard that. Tomorrow is officially the last day. They have to turn in their training records. I keep them on file for one year while they are establishing their utilization record. Then a deep cleaning of the kennel so it will be ready for the next class when ever that happens. I figure 3 more to go. 

DFrost


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Today was graduation day. Yayyy. The admin staff attended, I'm sure it was because they were proud of the handlers accomplishments and had nothing to do with Channel 2 and 4 being there. The Sheriff of the county dog I had in this class was there as well. It was a nice ceremony.
> 
> They have to turn in their training records. I keep them on file for one year while they are establishing their utilization record.
> 
> DFrost


Congratulations, sounds like a nice way to close things up for that group. Are their training records structured or a cluster of notes they compile along the way? I'd expect them to be organized in some fashion but since I didn't know for sure, I wanted to ask.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> Congratulations, sounds like a nice way to close things up for that group. Are their training records structured or a cluster of notes they compile along the way? I'd expect them to be organized in some fashion but since I didn't know for sure, I wanted to ask.


The training records are in chronological order and document the results of each trial. A running percentage of proficiency on each odor is maintained after the dog has met criterion on that odor. That record is placed with the student evaluation sheet, where each task the handler is required to perform is "checked" off as the handler meets the requirements. 

DFrost


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

aNOther one bites the dust...i like the "lead, follow or get the hell out of the way" inscription   (sorry if i didn't quote exactly--but you all know what i meant).


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Big congrats! My hat's off to you...again! ;-)
Between the military and the HP do you have any idea how many dogs you have put through training?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

bet ya he knows exactly--just matter of doing the addition. but who has time for that? he's busy training!!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

ann schnerre said:


> bet ya he knows exactly--just matter of doing the addition. but who has time for that? he's busy training!!!



:grin:;-)


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

quick question, david: who does the "deep cleaning" ?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Big congrats! My hat's off to you...again! ;-)
> Between the military and the HP do you have any idea how many dogs you have put through training?



It's somewhere around 5,000, counting all venues. 

I figure maybe another 18 or so before I retire. 5001 if you count teaching Roger to bring me the morning paper. ha ha.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Every time I hear that dogs' name an image of Roger Rabbit pops into my head.:lol:
Congrats!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

couldn't you count Roger for two? i mean, he does bring you more than just YOUR paper 

ha ha, hadn't thought about that.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Congratulations, Mr. Frost, on a lifetime of canine accomplishments in the service of society!!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Thank you Denise. It's been a job I've loved doing, that makes it a lot less work. 

DFrost


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

David Frost said:


> It's somewhere around 5,000, counting all venues.
> 
> I figure maybe another 18 or so before I retire. 5001 if you count teaching Roger to bring me the morning paper. ha ha.
> 
> DFrost


There's never going to be a way to prove this or that regarding pure numbers.

Let's just assume what he says is true, and be generous and include the dogs over which he has "over seen" the training...but not has done so personally. Fine. He can take credit for 5,000.* Who the hell cares? They're all ghosts anyway...too important to government security to be filmed and shared to any degree. Oh, except they're not...they get filmed all the ****ing time:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=422_sy-Gki8&feature=related

Here's what is telling about his personality, though: he must have said it dozens of times by now on WDF: "I'm not interested in where the dog comes from, I'm an end user." How many times does he appear out of nowhere to add that useless ****ing fact? Outstanding! Then stay in that comfortable little nook you carved out for yourself and keep pretending you're guarding important cop dog training secrets. Loose lips sink ships. You're going to get your guys killed if you film a simple training concept, or end result. lol. Ok.

Furthermore, about that important fact that he just needs everyone to know (I'm and end user...**** knowledge),what he's telling me is that in his 30 years and thousands of dogs trained he's never, not once, taken in interest in the origin of the tools of his trade?I know he takes pride in being a "stubborn old cop who sets in his ways", but this sounds more like willful ignorance. That's nothing to be proud of.

Another thing, I love how he's dismissive of "sports" as if the dogs he deals with comes from secret police dog breeding compounds unavailable to civilians. Oh, except this chick took upon herself to train with french ring people and smoked some*police dog competitions:* http://www.vongrunheideshepherds.com/f/Against_All_Odds.pdf
*
Over at leerburg, some guy was promoting some alternative*substances to use for explosive detection.* Kevin Sheldahl, another K9 trainer claims to have reviewed the data and had a hard time finding anything to criticize.

David, in his usual form, (as is typical of someone*who's been in charge WAY too long), pretty verbally crosses his arms and says: "Nope. I haven't seen it myself, I don't want to see it, not interested in how it works* I'm sure we tried something similiar*it in the 70s"*

That just tells me he's not even particularly curious about anything anymore.* He knows it all.* Great contributer to a discussion forum. Really.

Jesus.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Who pissed in your Cherios Tim? 

Regarding the Leerburg discussion you refer to...provide the link so anyone interested in your rant can go read it themselves. In a nutshell, Scentlogix inventor David Adebimpe created a pseudo explosives scents for dog training. and Kevin Sheldahl conducted what he calls a "Double Blind" test to confirm the products' viability. David Frost doesn't agree with the pseudo, or the alleged double blind test....and now he's the bad guy for sticking to what he believes in based on years of experience?


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

To add to this, the signs of a good teacher is someone who makes students better than themselves eventually. It's called evolution, the student expands on a "great teachers work" and it evolves and will continue to evolve but just announcing ones greatness doesn't make it true!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

go find another forum to be nasty on tim-i think you don't and have never trained/worked dogs for the US military, and i think you're just "stirring the waters" here. so just stop.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Regarding the Leerburg discussion you refer to...provide the link so anyone interested in your rant can go read it themselves. In a nutshell, Scentlogix inventor David Adebimpe created a pseudo explosives scents for dog training. and Kevin Sheldahl conducted what he calls a "Double Blind" test to confirm the products' viability. David Frost doesn't agree with the pseudo, or the alleged double blind test....and now he's the bad guy for sticking to what he believes in based on years of experience?


Don't confuse him with facts. You can tell by his little rant in the thread about his little buddy and the modern dust buster that he likes to use the words to suit his comments, not the truth. He does have a tendency to misquote, I'm sure it's accidental though. Just thought I'd mention to, that not all the dogs I've trained are ghosts. There are at least 50 currently working. As a matter of fact, six brand new ones as of yesterday (9/8/11). I can tell ya where I bought them, I can tell ya what I paid for them, but can't tell ya thing about their ancestry. Why, because I don't care. They were selected, given physicals, paid for and trained. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Oh yeah I also wanted to add; chuckle, chuckle

DFrost


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Oh yeah I also wanted to add; chuckle, chuckle


Ditto!8)


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

My comments are in blue.  



Timothy Stacy said:


> There's never going to be a way to prove this or that regarding pure numbers.
> 
> I have no dog in this hunt but Tim, you're really waaaaay off base here.
> 
> ...


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Question 1 - I think it can be proven, WRONG. Let us see the evidence of 5000 dogs!
2. Yes a huge majority are dead.
3. Not here in the states cause like you said the pedigree and bloodlines don't matter. If he is just training with some guy who comes in for training, the pedigree has nothing to do with it. But there should be some knowledge of certain lines. Some lines are more prone to get the job done. Maybe that's why there are many departments with shitty dogs cause they picked a dog out of the pound and trained what was in front of them  LOL
4.Not gonna take the time to look stuff up. I formulated my opinion already!
5. No Kevin is not my go to guy!
6. No I will not provide a link cause I'm going off memory and feel no need to waste my time!
7. Yes, huge contribution! Others feel the same way judging from my PMs, sorry but it had to be said!

All your q's have been answered. Thank you for your show of interest in the subject. Your personal feelings on pedigrees and bloodlines was also interesting!


7.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

If I bring my car to a mechanic I'd expect him to know the origin of the car; country, model, year. I may have to tell him but..... He should be able to see the make---- GSD, malinois,etc etc! If he is good he will also know some potential factory defects and know right where to put a wrench  could avoid a lot of unnecessary promblem solving


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

So anyway, one of the handlers that graduated yesterday, called me this afternoon. Said his dog had responded on a car. When they searched it all they found was seeds and stems. He was disappointed, I told him I'm not. It's still a "find" and validates the dog's response on that vehicle. I also told him, I'm sure there are many more to come. Besides, my philosophy has always been; I'll get my motherload even if I have to do it a gram at a time.

DFrost


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh I'm get it now! You teach a bunch of basics and never really get in depth with any dogs or dog training in general Sorry, I thought,,, ah forget it!
No need to actually know more about the dogs origins 

Ill get off your thread now. Bye bye chuckle chuckle :lol:


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

My comments are again in  blue.  


Timothy Stacy said:


> Question 1 - I think it can be proven, WRONG. Let us see the evidence of 5000 dogs!
> 
> I'd suggest that if you want the proof, you make a few phone calls. Some questions to ask, once you get the head of the THP would be
> 
> ...


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Timothy Stacy said:


> If I bring my car to a mechanic I'd expect him to know the origin of the car; country, model, year. I may have to tell him but..... He should be able to see the make---- GSD, malinois,etc etc! If he is good he will also know some potential factory defects and know right where to put a wrench could avoid a lot of unnecessary promblem solving


Probably one of the weakest analogies ever used in a discussion about dog training! A mechanic needs that information so he can order parts, look up specifications for such things a valve clearances, and to determine if the pistons are out of spec or not. 

Knowing whether a given Mal came from France, Belgium or anywhere else is not going to help a dog trainer. As far as solving problems . . . good dog trainers don't create many and they know how to solve whatever comes up. What a breed's tendency to do may be helpful, but it also may lead down the wrong path if THIS dog is not having the problem because his mommy did. 

I'd guess that David can tell the difference between a GSD and a Mal without reading a dog's pedigree, but it's just a guess.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Earlier David wrote,


> So anyway, one of the handlers that graduated yesterday, called me this afternoon. Said his dog had responded on a car. When they searched it all they found was seeds and stems. He was disappointed, I told him I'm not. It's still a "find" and validates the dog's response on that vehicle. I also told him, I'm sure there are many more to come. Besides, my philosophy has always been; I'll get my motherload even if I have to do it a gram at a time.
> 
> DFrost


And Tim responded,


> Oh I'm get it now! You teach a bunch of basics and never really get in depth with any dogs or dog training in general Sorry, I thought,,, ah forget it!
> No need to actually know more about the dogs origins
> 
> Ill get off your thread now. Bye bye chuckle chuckle


Somehow I fail to comprehend how David's post would lead a reasonable, rational person (did I just answer my own question?) to make the statement that you just did about _"teach[ing] a bunch of basics."_ The dogs and handlers that graduate from David's narco classes are certified and are out working the field. How does one get from THAT to _"teach[ing] a bunch of basics?"_


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> Somehow I fail to comprehend [/i]


That doesn't surprise me, chuckle chuckle:lol:
Lou are you saying that teaching a dog to find drugs is sophisticated :-\"

Any guesses on how many follow up questions Lou will ask?


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Yeah look, you failed to comprehend the point again! I didn't realize you needed me to go into greater detail. The mechanic should be able to tell the make, GSD- Mal!, may have to ask what year/ age of the dog. May have to ask etc, etc a bit of a road map for direction 
You know you can look up car parts the same as you can pedigrees. Ask around and you could get some specs HAHA.


Lou Castle said:


> Probably one of the weakest analogies ever used in a discussion about dog training! A mechanic needs that information so he can order parts, look up specifications for such things a valve clearances, and to determine if the pistons are out of spec or not.
> 
> Knowing whether a given Mal came from France, Belgium or anywhere else is not going to help a dog trainer. As far as solving problems . . . good dog trainers don't create many and they know how to solve whatever comes up. What a breed's tendency to do may be helpful, but it also may lead down the wrong path if THIS dog is not having the problem because his mommy did.
> 
> I'd guess that David can tell the difference between a GSD and a Mal without reading a dog's pedigree, but it's just a guess.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> As far as solving problems . . . good dog trainers don't create many and they know how to solve whatever comes up. What a breed's tendency to do may be helpful, but it also may lead down the wrong path if THIS dog is not having the problem because his mommy did.


Are you saying police handlers are good dog trainers? Remember I said you were the mechanic so somebody would be coming to you with a problem!

No comment on the last sentence ](*,) I can go so many ways with that!Especially when you use such weak phrases like "but it also may lead".... In your own words, "Not with good dog trainers" :-\"


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Lou said: "I'd suggest that if you want the proof, you make a few phone calls. Some questions to ask, once you get the head of the THP would be



1. Is David Frost the head canine trainer for the THP?
2. How long has he held that position?
3. How many classes has he run during that time?
4. How many dogs were in each class?"

That's fine, my name is on the website as well as Canine Trainer. That's only 20+ years though. You would have to include my 23 years in the MWD Program, 13 years of which were as an instructor at the DOD Dog School. There at one time or another I was an instructor in the Sentry Dog Course, Patrol Dog Course, Drug Detector Dog Course, Explosives Detector Course, Manager of the Dog Training Section, Course Chief of Explosives Detector Course, FAA Explosives Detector Dog Program Manager (the predeccor of the current TSA program) and Superintendent of the DOD Dog School for my last 3 years of active duty. There were a few other assignments at the aforementioned Land Warfare Laboratory and Southwest Research but he'd never believe that anyway. That was a lot of dogs. There might still be a few around Lackland AFB that remember me. Of course a lot of those are ghosts as well, ha ha.

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Usually I do know the difference between a Mal and a GSD. I do get confused sometimes on Dutchies. I do know how old they are, or at least what the vendor says they are. But then I've never been bashful about how I feel about vendors. One of the reasons I have my vet xray the dogs. That said, When I enter a dog in training, I know it has what it needs for the course it is entered into, I know that's it's healthy and will work long enough to justify the expense and time of it's training. I know if you look at my posts about training, I've said many times, it's not rocket science. No I don't think police officers often make good dog trainers. some make excellant dog handlers and a few make decent dog trainers. 

DFrost


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Isn't Lackland's dog program pretty much run by civilians now? :-\"
That tells me the programs foundation was flawed! Weren't you there at the beginning?:-\"
It's amazing how somebody can juice up a resume in every aspect of life!
Sentry dogs, was that the Air Forces first attempt at dog training? In your case does that mean perimeter guarding and alerting on someone in the dark they can't see? Is this an advanced class?


David Frost said:


> Lou said: "I'd suggest that if you want the proof, you make a few phone calls. Some questions to ask, once you get the head of the THP would be
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Earlier I wrote,


> Somehow I fail to comprehend how David's post would lead a reasonable, rational person (did I just answer my own question?) to make the statement that you just did about _"teach[ing] a bunch of basics." _


_

But in his effort to be clever he misquoted me as saying only "Somehow I fail to comprehend" Sorry Tim, like the rest of your posts and your basic premise in this thread, Another FAIL! 



Timothy Stacy said:



Lou are you saying that teaching a dog to find drugs is sophisticated "

Click to expand...

Don't believe I used that word or anything close to it Tim. You alleged that David only taught narco dogs "a bunch of basics" when it's clear that he trains green (or near green dogs) and takes them to a certified level where they're working on the street. Of course, again, you were wrong in this allegation. 



Timothy Stacy said:



Any guesses on how many follow up questions Lou will ask?

Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for you to answer the ones that have already been asked, but like many folks, you run and hide from them because you know they will put the lie to statements you made earlier. 

Earlier Tim wrote



Ill get off your thread now.

Click to expand...

 Always good to know that you're a man of your word._


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Yeah look, you failed to comprehend the point again!


Oh no. I "comprehended" it perfectly. It just doesn’t apply to this discussion. 



Timothy Stacy said:


> I didn't realize you needed me to go into greater detail.


I don't but you probably will anyway. 



Timothy Stacy said:


> The mechanic should be able to tell the make, GSD- Mal!, may have to ask what year/ age of the dog. May have to ask etc, etc a bit of a road map for direction
> You know you can look up car parts the same as you can pedigrees. Ask around and you could get some specs HAHA.


It's not necessary to know the age of a dog to train him. If he's too old it's probably not cost effective to put him into training, but that won't come from his pedigree since no one knows if the vendor is showing us THIS dog's pedigree anyway. They're completely unnecessary for what we do. This very simple fact seems to be beyond your grasp. 

Just curious . . . to any trainers of any kind of dog out there. Do you demand to see a dog's pedigree before you'll work with him?


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Earlier I wrote,


> As far as solving problems . . . good dog trainers don't create many and they know how to solve whatever comes up. What a breed's tendency to do may be helpful, but it also may lead down the wrong path if THIS dog is not having the problem because his mommy did.





Timothy Stacy said:


> Are you saying police handlers are good dog trainers?


I don't see anything I wrote there that says anything about police handlers. 



Timothy Stacy said:


> Remember I said you were the mechanic so somebody would be coming to you with a problem!


As much as I was hoping to not make this about me, this is David's thread, I can only speak for myself on this. I'm known as a problem solver. Never have I found it necessary, or even of any interest, what pedigree a dog had, in order to solve his problems. 

Tim if you want to demand a pedigree before you train a dog that's fine with me. No police dog trainer on the forum so far has agreed with you so I'll have to say that it's not important to us. I’m sure there are exceptions but I'm just as sure that they're in a very small minority.


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Geez Tim. What drugs are you on or how much have you had to drink? Where the flip is this coming from? Did you decide to take a stab at blending Jeff O and Gerry G into 1 huge offensive dirtbag?

I thoroughly enjoy reading David's vast knowledge in training of police dogs and doing it with humor. I would love to read a book about the trials and tribulations of taking basically raw material and turning a man and a dog into a team that will become a bond in their lives. These teams will then go out to protect and serve.

David is honest and is able to take pound dogs of unknown pedigree and turn them into detection dogs. Everyone has their likes and dislikes and I'm sure when someone decides to dislike something, there is reasoning behind it.

If you have something real to contribute, great, otherwise, take your party elsewhere, please.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

First off, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to quote me so often LMAO!!!!!!!


Lou Castle said:


> As much as I was hoping to not make this about me, this is David's thread, I can only speak for myself on this. .


Did you read your first post and how you mentioned yourself. 

Lou said  "Tim if you want to demand a pedigree before you train a dog that's fine with me. No police dog trainer on the forum so far has agreed with you so I'll have to say that it's not important to us. I’m sure there are exceptions but I'm just as sure that they're in a very small minority."

Obviosly taken out of text. You did mention you have trouble comprehending though! Try this site 

http://m.readingrockets.org/teaching/reading101/comprehension/?gclid=CJzBq-GokqsCFc7JKgodKlTVtQ


You seem to miss the meat and potatoes of every conversation. Maybe I'll start putting in bold face words, that would be a signal to pay attention.:lol:

Lastly, you skipped over my comments about Lackland. How long did David work there?:-k

I have to go for now, maybe I'll be back tomorrow, hat to keep you waiting. Chuckle chuckle!:lol:


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Laney Rein said:


> Where the flip is this coming from? Did you decide to take a stab at blending Jeff O and Gerry G into 1 huge offensive dirtbag?
> 
> I thoroughly enjoy reading David's vast knowledge in training of police dogs and doing it with humor!
> 
> David is honest and is able to take pound dogs of unknown pedigree and turn them into detection dogs.


Makes me laugh. I got sick of his BS condescending attitude. I'm glad you think he's humorous, chuckle chuckle!
Do you train with David? Who told you he takes pound dogs? Wipe the red stain off your upper lip


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Isn't Lackland's dog program pretty much run by civilians now? :-\"
> That tells me the programs foundation was flawed! Weren't you there at the beginning?:-\"
> It's amazing how somebody can juice up a resume in every aspect of life!
> Sentry dogs, was that the Air Forces first attempt at dog training? In your case does that mean perimeter guarding and alerting on someone in the dark they can't see? Is this an advanced class?


I don't know if Lackland's program is mostly civilians now. I do know that some of the civilians that are working in the TSA program were military instructors when I was there. 

I doubt you know enough about the MWD program to tell if it's flawed or not, but you are entitled to your opinion. 

The MWD Program started long before I was born, let alone in the military.

Sentry dogs were among the first things done with a dog and was very successful at what it did. Yes it was mostly perimeter and area protection. I don't remember anyone saying it was "advanced" training. I do recall saying dog training isn't rocket science on many occasions. There were no drug, explosives detectors, in the military, until the late 60's. In 1968 the Air Force did a feasibility study on the training of drug dogs. I was one of three handlers to work a dog in that study. The drug detector dog course was started as a result of that study. 

Don't care about a resume. Won't need one for my next job. 
I was at the DOD Dog School for 13 years. So now your feelings are so hurt, you are attacking the MWD Program and the jobs those dogs and handlers did and are continuing to do? 
Tell us some more stories about detection and detector dog training as they were passed onto you by your friend. 

DFrost


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

I would probably consider Lacklands Dog program, which you were part of for quiet a while a failure considering they had to turn to civilians to run it. Surprised you didn't know that about civilian, did you leave on such abad note that they never really asked for your opinions after you left? Chuckle chuckle.

Cool you ran some feasibility tests. The world was running test on detection dogs in the 60's and 70's as well. Don't see why that's important unless it had something to do with Lackland, in which case you'd just begin to prove my point that the the program was not working so well.
Didn't they try a breeding program? How'd that turn out.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

And resorting to trying to make me look unpatriotic for saying it was a failure is pitiful, but I wouldn't expect anything less from somebody who just got there invisible soapbox kicked out from underneath them. :-\"


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Timothy Stacy said:


> And resorting to trying to make me look unpatriotic for saying it was a failure is pitiful, but I wouldn't expect anything less from somebody who just got there invisible soapbox kicked out from underneath them. :-\"


Just pointing out your words. You say the MWD program is a failure and I disagree. You imply it was partly/mostly or totally my fault, I'm not really sure what you're saying. You asked a question about a more modern dust buster, I posted an answer you didn't like. Your little feelings got hurt and it ends up with the MWD Program going to hell in a hand basket. In the end, I never questioned your patriotism. I generally don't make statements about someone I don't know, any more than I take the diatribe from someone I don't know, personal. 

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David,
Is he mad about the dustbuster or the fact that Kittysniffles made him look bad?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> David,
> Is he mad about the dustbuster or the fact that Kittysniffles made him look bad?


ha ha, not sure, but his panties are in a wad. I mean geez louise, it's not enough he's questioned my honesty, but now according to him, the whole MWD program is in default and in civilian hands because of my ineptitude. I'm surprised they've allowed me to draw that military retirement check since 1988. Of course if it's true the MWD program is in now totally in civilian hands, my theory is, my leaving was such a blow that it fell apart. But then, my ego never did suffer. 

I'm sure his views are based on fact although I would like to know how many patrol, drug, explosives, mine, cadaver detectors he's trained. I know he has the experience of the high tech dust buster, well at least the stories his friend has told him. At any rate, it is certain he's a bit miffed. 

DFrost


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

David Frost said:


> whole MWD program is in default and in civilian hands because of my ineptitude. ........................,,, my leaving was such a blow that it fell apart.................... But then, my ego never did suffer.
> 
> DFrost


1. Not exactly, I'm "guessing sensibly" that the "LACKLAND" was in disarray and why they would turn to civilians for many aspects of training etc. I'm sure it didn't happen over night but I can see how you would think you were so important :wink:. So important they went to civilians without even keeping you in the loop  or asking you for help in a supportive manor  Speaks volume of your worth in their eyes!

You said "But then, my ego never did suffer."
Hard to get to a egomaniac/blowhard that believes he invented the wheel :roll:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Ok, Timmy. I'm done. I'll try to muddle along knowing what you think of me. Somehow I think I'll manage.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David,

Is it common practice for the military to keep retired personell in the loop after they've been gone for 23 years? If so, you've been dissed.=D>


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> David,
> 
> Is it common practice for the military to keep retired personell in the loop after they've been gone for 23 years? If so, you've been dissed.=D>


Obviosly not, it appears to be common practice for them to Say F off to people of the past and hire some civilians with no military experience. What does that tell me :-k Chuckle chuckle!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Obviosly not, it appears to be common practice for them to Say F off to people of the past and hire some civilians with no military experience. What does that tell me :-k Chuckle chuckle!



Maybe you should apply for the job and right all the wrongs. That'll show him.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> David,
> 
> Is it common practice for the military to keep retired personell in the loop after they've been gone for 23 years? If so, you've been dissed.=D>


When the FAA program was taken over by TSA, they hired the instructors that had been working in the explosives course. A few of them are still there. I don't know how many civilian instructors they have teaching patrol, drug and explosives on the military side. I know there are still some military instructors working there. Many of the guys I worked with are at different places working in dog programs, such as Customs, Secret Service and some civilian contractors. One of my former students is the top dog at Auburn U's dog program. Last week I was in Indiana at the AWD's certification and competition trials at Von Liche Kennels. Kenny and I worked together for years in military and a couple of the guys that work for him now are old friends and work buddies. I judged one of the events at his K9 Olympics. We did talk about the "old days" and some of the old things with new names. ha ha. We did get a kick out of it.

DFrost


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Makes me laugh. I got sick of his BS condescending attitude. I'm glad you think he's humorous, chuckle chuckle!
> Do you train with David? Who told you he takes pound dogs? Wipe the red stain off your upper lip


U

Just sleep it off Tim, empty your stomach a few times and go have a nap. It's very obvious you are under the influence of something and have no control over the vomiice spewing out your mouth.

Take a nap and comeback later when you make sense. Need a cup of coffee?


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