# New Protection Dog



## Neil Rodin (Jun 22, 2006)

I have a new protection male gsd i purchased and want to do some protection and bitework training with him. I am new to this and was wondering where should I start. I need to know about decoys and helpers as well. I was thinking about getting a Leerburg dvd what do u think? My GSD is 2 and we have had him about a month.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Finding a good skilled reputable trainer is invaluable. You can get the DVD's from Leerburg but you'll reach a point where it'll be in your best interest to work with a good training decoy, so you might as well find that training decoy now and you will be off to a good start.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

What Mike said. What part of FL are you in again? Maybe some of the members can recommend a trainer if they live near you. Make sure to tell the new trainer how much training your dog has already, so they'll have an idea of where to begin with him. You ought to post pics of him for the board. He's a pretty dog!


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## Daniel Cox (Apr 17, 2006)

Neil Rodin said:


> I have a new protection male gsd i purchased and want to do some protection and bitework training with him. I am new to this and was wondering where should I start. I need to know about decoys and helpers as well. I was thinking about getting a Leerburg dvd what do u think? My GSD is 2 and we have had him about a month.


IMHO here is what I would do.
I would find yourself a Schutzhund Club, protection dog sport club or a professional trainer that knows about protection work w/ dogs. Look on the Schutzhund USA website to find yourself a club. I do not feel this is something you can do or learn on your own. Proper helper work on a dog is so important. A good helper can evaluate your dog and even help you learn to handle him. I am not an expert on a PPD. I feel a PPD in the wrong hands can be very dangerous. Please find yourself a club. Look around and order yourself some Schutzhund books and learn about the drives of dogs. I would continue bonding and start working on obedience w/ your dog. The most import part of protection work is obedience in my opinon.

If you are interesed in helper work then find yourself a Seminar or someone that can be your mentor. I do not feel you can do helper work on your own PPD dog. This would ruin the bond. My idea of a PPD is a dog that is very civil and you do not want your dog being civil w/ you. I am sure some people here can recommend books. Look on the leerburg website at their books. They are very good books.

I really like
Der Schutzhund by Helmut Raiser

I also like this book.
Schutzhund Obedience
Training in Drive
With Gottfried Dildei

Remember to properly train a PPD dog you must have a expert understanding of the different drives in a dog.

I hope you and your new dog bond and you guys find a place to train.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Does your dog have any training already? 

I admit I own some Leerburg DVDs. They are quite useless. The suggestions regarding a club, trainer, decoy, etc. are the way you should go, IMO.


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## Neil Rodin (Jun 22, 2006)

Yes he does have some training now and he has done bitework as well. Great temperment and drive. I do need a good trainer if anyone can recommend someone in the Miami Fort Lauderdale area that would be very helpfull


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## Daniel Cox (Apr 17, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Does your dog have any training already?
> 
> I admit I own some Leerburg DVDs. They are quite useless. The suggestions regarding a club, trainer, decoy, etc. are the way you should go, IMO.


I agree about many of the Leerburg DVDs. I do like the ones that contain Bernhard Flinks at Leerburg. The building drive and focus is a very good dvd for a novice.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> I do like the ones that contain Bernhard Flinks at Leerburg. The building drive and focus is a very good dvd for a novice.


I agree fully, except for the flanking to get the out, the BS about the idea that the dog doesn't know where the flanking comes from, and the prey item focus...which is 100% of the DVD...

That's one of the ones I own...  

It now forms part of a CD chain billfish teaser on my sportfisher.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Neil Rodin said:


> Yes he does have some training now and he has done bitework as well. Great temperment and drive. I do need a good trainer if anyone can recommend someone in the Miami Fort Lauderdale area that would be very helpfull


There is a GREAT trainer in that area, but I don't remember his last name, Phil something. Check your PM's.


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## Neil Rodin (Jun 22, 2006)

is it Phil Hoelcher?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes, do you know him?


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## Neil Rodin (Jun 22, 2006)

No I looked him up


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## Daniel Cox (Apr 17, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> > I do like the ones that contain Bernhard Flinks at Leerburg. The building drive and focus is a very good dvd for a novice.
> 
> 
> I agree fully, except for the flanking to get the out, the BS about the idea that the dog doesn't know where the flanking comes from, and the prey item focus...which is 100% of the DVD...
> ...


the flank is junk. they should have cut it out of the video. I understand his idea but it does not work that way in my mind. My dog Chuck would not let go of the ball if you pulled his flank and he would know where it came from. Chuck is a 11 month old working dog w/ extreme drives and the flinks philosphy has produced a very clean out and nice focus. My dog does not need drive building. He bites the sleeve like a monster and comes like a freight train at 11 months. We have actually had to settle him down some. He will lock up and does not like to bark for the sleeve when you get close. The flinks philosophy has taught him to focus and out. After having a dog that has extreme drive for the ball I really do not want to have to build drive on a dog. If you are building drive on an older dog then it might be time to find a new dog in my mind. Drive is genetic IMHO.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

<<<Drive is genetic IMHO.>>

Amen.

DFrost


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> I admit I own some Leerburg DVDs. They are quite useless.


Andres this is just not true. If you space them out on a piece of string and put them on your boat as it sits on the trailer or a mooring, they keep the birds away. 

As to flanking a dog to get him to out, I think it's an EXCELLENT way to get yourself bit during grooming!


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## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

As to flanking a dog to get him to out, I think it's an EXCELLENT way to get yourself bit during grooming![/quote]

You're sooo right Lou! It works for Bernard, but it should not be in a novice training DVD.
Robert


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Robert Blok said:


> As to flanking a dog to get him to out, I think it's an EXCELLENT way to get yourself bit during grooming!


You're sooo right Lou! It works for Bernard, but it should not be in a novice training DVD.
Robert[/quote]

i wouldn't mess with it (flanking) for a sport dog, but for working dogs, you need to know other ways of outting your dog for a real bite. a dog's first real bite is a pretty exciting thing for the dog and he may not respond as he would in training, so you need to know alternate methods (flank, ear pinch, throat pinch, etc.)...


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> i wouldn't mess with it (flanking) for a sport dog, but for working dogs, you need to know other ways of outting your dog for a real bite. a dog's first real bite is a pretty exciting thing for the dog and he may not respond as he would in training, so you need to know alternate methods (flank, ear pinch, throat pinch, etc.)...


I'd recommend against using any kind of discomfort like the flanking, ear or throat pinch on a dog that's been involved in a real (not biting equipment) fight. He's liable to think that the "new force" that's being applied is coming from the guy he's fighting with and respond with a bite. 

A tactical removal (grabbing his collar and pressing into the bite) is always an option if he doesn't respond to voice commands. Although I've found the first bite to be much easier to get a release on than after a dog has had a few donnybrooks; particularly if he's been hurt as he was releasing the bite. But then I've never had any trouble getting a dog to release a bite.


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