# Does anyone know how to read x-rays for HD?



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Cujo was diagnosed with HD this evening. The vet said "his hips are very bad", but I am not quite sure "how bad" is "very bad". He said no more playing fetch, no rough playing, short walks & omega 3 + vitamin E. So that sounds pretty damn bad.

Other than hesitation to jump, and looking a little stiff sometimes, he's happy and lively. Ofcourse, he's only 4.

I know the general concepts of HD, but having never dealt with it I'm in new territory. I didn't realize that it would mean keeping my dog from doing the things he loves to do. How fragile should I treat him??

I have digital x-rays if anyone knows how to read them, I can email them.

Obviously this is pretty @*[email protected](& depressing.

I'm not surprised he has bad hips, I have been putting off xrays for years. I just didnt realize it would be a "totally remove the joy from his life" type of diagnosis.


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## Chris Wild (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm pretty good at interpreting hip x-rays and would be glad to take a look at them.

But my email has been down for several days and won't be back up until sometime next week... could you post the photo here?

I will say that in my experience, vets tend to be doomsayers about HD diagnosis. And opinions of what constitutes "very bad" varies widely from vet to vet. I've learned to ignore the opinions on all but the most experience and trusted orthopedic vets when it comes to predicting long term affects on the dog.

One thing I would definitely recommend doing is putting your dog on joint supplements ASAP. Glucosamine, chondritin, MSM, ester C. Don't wait until symptoms worsen, do it now. The thing with HD is that it is rarely the HD itself that causes pain and stiffness. It is the arthritis that builds up inside the joint due to the excess wear and tear caused by the joint not fitting together properly. Nothing short of surgery can make the joint fit together right, but supplements can help dramatically when it comes to slowing down the progression of arthritis.

We have a female GSD that was diagnosed with Moderate HD in both hips at a year old. Her sockets are very shallow, overall joint is very loose, fermoral heads are flattened and pointed (shaped more like arrowheads than round balls), and she already had the beginnings of arthritic changes within the joint at only a year old. She's been on joint supplements (in addition to proper diet, being kept at a lean and healthy weight and appropriate exercise) since then. She's now almost 9 years old and still relatively symptom free. She has only the occasional stiffness, and that only after a day of really hard play.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Did he mention choosing his walking/playing surfaces?


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## Chris Wild (Jan 30, 2008)

Here's a photo of the hips of our dog I mentioned. This is the x-ray from when she was diagnosed at a year old. Despite these hips, she's still going strong at almost 9yo. So an HD diagnosis, even a bad one, doesn't necessarily mean the dog will have significant problems in the future.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris's post says in a nutshell what I have heard a million times at training club.... especially that dogs vary widely in how HD affects them, and also about top-quality supplements.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Wild said:


> One thing I would definitely recommend doing is putting your dog on joint supplements ASAP. Glucosamine, chondritin, MSM, ester C. Don't wait until symptoms worsen, do it now. The thing with HD is that it is rarely the HD itself that causes pain and stiffness. It is the arthritis that builds up inside the joint due to the excess wear and tear caused by the joint not fitting together properly. Nothing short of surgery can make the joint fit together right, but supplements can help dramatically when it comes to slowing down the progression of arthritis. ....


Was there any sign yet of OA changes? 

Regardless, supplements sure can help dramatically in slowing OA changes due to HD.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I know a dog who had early replacemnt (age 4) and is doing great, but he had WAY more symptoms that Cujo, including bunnyhopping from age 2.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Sorry to hear this Mike My ol' girl (Rotty) who just recently passed at almost 13 years old was diagnosed with HD when she was just over 6. I noticed the slight stiffness - which is why I had her X-Rayed again. I did not "force" her to stop what she enjoyed doing - although I did stop going for very long walks with her on lead. I let her dictate what she could - or could not handle as far as running around with the other dogs - she loved swimming. I got her an orthopedic dog bed - that IMO really helped the stiffness after a nap or nights sleep....gave her glucosamine and chondroitin...vitamin E and fish oil and took a few pounds off of her. I can honestly say that at 12.5 years old, before she got pneumonia, she was still holding her own......running around with my other dogs.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

you can mail them to me, if you like to Mike.

@ Chris...oh my god...and she was 1 yo at the time this x ray was taken???


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Thankyou for the feedback everyone. I will see where I can find supplements here and be more religious about giving those.

I'm starting to get used to the idea, but that first hit on top of the pano and the fever the past 2 weeks, yeesh...... it just never ends 

As Selena put so nicely, quality of life is also very important to factor in.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike, supplement can be found by a drogist. Online to.

Better a shorter happy life, than a long, boring life imo ;-)


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

:lol: Ik moet nog wennen dat ik hier alles voor honden bij de drogist kan krijgen.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> :lol: Ik moet nog wennen dat ik hier alles voor honden bij de drogist kan krijgen.


gewoon de mensenversie pakken, bij de goedkope drogist...scheelt je geld ;-)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Thankyou for the feedback everyone. I will see where I can find supplements here and be more religious about giving those.
> 
> I'm starting to get used to the idea, but that first hit on top of the pano and the fever the past 2 weeks, yeesh...... it just never ends  As Selena put so nicely, quality of life is also very important to factor in.


I can ship the supplements if there's any problem getting them there.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

My females hips are very bad on x-rays and we went to an ortho vet to look at our options. He was much more optimistic than my regular vet.**

I will tryto post but it is a bad scan. I went to orthopedic doctor and he said "let her run" just not jumping and fast turns etc. We give a supplement and to be honest they don't bother her that much and she has severe flanging, and the heads of her femurs look like mushrooms.

I think there is hope out there with stem cell therpies etc that we may look at in the future when things look bad but this guy felt that he has rarely had to put down a dog due to bad hips --- it was the back that was the showstopper.

I would rather let her run herself into the ground than to be a miserable couch potato even if it does wind up costing a few years. Glucosamine-MSM has been a godsend and I can tell it makes a difference



** years ago I had a vet tell me to euthanize a puppy due to his hips. that puppy lived 15 years, 13 of them without any orthopedic limitations other than he crabbed when he ran.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Thankyou for the feedback everyone. I will see where I can find supplements here and be more religious about giving those.
> 
> I'm starting to get used to the idea, but that first hit on top of the pano and the fever the past 2 weeks, yeesh...... it just never ends  As Selena put so nicely, quality of life is also very important to factor in.


Try JointStrong, good for Pano and HD, other types of inflammation, pain, etc. All natural, no side effects. We have two dysplastic GSD and it works great for them. Here is some information. http://www.showandsport.com/joint_strong.htm

Good luck, I know how devastated we were when we saw the results of our dogs x-rays. One attained a SchH1, WH and tracking titles, the other will never be able to jump the wall safely. It's not the pain, it's a lack of stability.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Mike: Here is a link to the company that is doing the stem cell transplants on dogs with joint disease:
http://www.vet-stem.com/smallanimal/


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Glucosamine-MSM has been a godsend and I can tell it makes a difference


Me too. Having had several seniors with OA, I know now what the glucosamine and GAGs can do. My experience has been like Nancy's.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Mike: Here is a link to the company that is doing the stem cell transplants on dogs with joint disease:
> http://www.vet-stem.com/smallanimal/


There is also a product called stem enhance, an oral supplement. I have not tried it but know others who swear by it. Also comes in pet formula. http://www.adultstemcelldoc.com/AboutStemPets/StemPets.html


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Mike,

I am bummed to hear this.


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

I too am bummed about this blammo news.

There is hope though, through, like others have talked about, supplements, swimming, and letting Cujo be who he is...second opinions for sure...there are so many variables from what I've read about HD.

Pats and hugs to Cujo.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

If it's any help... my experience with HD.

Shortly after I got Baker, my LabX, he came up lame. He was 7 months old. I had him X-Rayed and the Vet said he had HD. She rated his hips as "dreadful". http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif
:sad: I did the Ontario Vet College consult, and because of his age, there was nothing they could do for him at that time as he was still growing. I thought he would be a candidate for surgery (femoral head excision) as soon as he was old enough.

It's five years later. He will never be a performance dog. He is an awkward and ugly mover, carries himself on his front end, can't jump, (unless he really wants to), but appears to be pain-free and happy. 

I give supplements - glucosamine, every day, but sometimes also MSM and chondroiten. Maybe they help him - they seem to work for me. I keep his weight down and walk him regularly. I let him be a dog as much as he wants to - I want him to have a happy life, even if it has to be shorter than it could be. 

He will be my heartbreak dog, I think. It seems inevitable that the malformation in his hips and the unnnatural wear on them will cause arthritic changes and enough pain that I will look at humane options. I'm nowhere close to there yet. My friend's dog had both hips done and was still active and playful at thirteen. Cancer killed him, not his hip issues. 

It is not good news about your dog, but hopefully he will have a good life and can continue to do the things that make you both happy.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Mike, I feel your pain about the vet bills piling up at the moment. Buck my old man is going to need a deep ear flush (which may not even work) and intradermal skin testing (probably be around $400ish total) and we're starting to notice that Zoso is starting to sit with his knees pointed in. :sad: He'll probably need his hips x-rayed too shortly to see what is going on and to intervene early if needed. I actually had a bit of a scare last week. I was working on water retrieval with Fawkes and he did great until we got back to the house (which backs to the subdivision lake) and he started limping in his rear end. I did a bit of manipulation and I could hear one of his hips were grinding around a bit. But he was fine the next day. I will have to keep on eye on him.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My 4+ yr old GSD Thunder has Moderate HD yet is one of the better jumpers at club. I'll work him till he shows me other wise. It may never happen.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Mike,

Sorry to hear this. Just to echo what has already been said about swimming etc. and to hope that symptoms do not develop until he has had a long and happy life

As for supplements, my experience is that buying supplements intended for human consumption is cheaper than buying supplements for the pet market and the quality is usually far superior. I use supplements from a company based in the Channel Islands - they post them here to the UK, so I'm sure they post to mainland Europe as well.

These are what I use:

Joint supplements:

http://www.healthspan.co.uk/joint_c...sm_and_vitamin_c/ProductDetail-p279-c124.aspx

or

http://www.healthspan.co.uk/joint_c...nd_vitamin_c/ProductDetail-p1545867-c124.aspx

Fish Body Oil:

http://www.healthspan.co.uk/joint_c...igh_dha_and_epa_/ProductDetail-p365-c124.aspx

Vitamin E:

http://www.healthspan.co.uk/vegetar...ageing_boost/ProductDetail-p420-c3193427.aspx


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks Ian, they do indeed ship to Belgium! Appreciate it.


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