# Slowing Down a Fast Tracker



## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm curious to hear what all of you with high food drive dogs do to slow them down while tracking.

Particularly with puppies, but also with adults, what are some methods you use on dogs that know to follow the scent, but need to be more methodical? More food? Prong collar?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

A prong collar but on both rings and more articles. Too much food and they're grazing and not tracking :-(


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Very small food, like 1/2 or 1/4 size of pea.

Make sure the food is in the grass and not on it. 

More than one piece of food in each step. I start out with a puppy with 5-7 pieces in each step. then reducing as they get older.

I think dogs that know to follow the track but go fast do not have to really search for the food. They know it's by the scent but easy to find. 

The food is why they track and the placement dictates how they track. 

same with articles, make them small. 


And also if you do this, the first couple of tracks are going to be a mess. Just let them work it out. I have found the less I am involved while the dog is tracking, the more the dog learns, and learns to figure it out on his own. If it's a high drive dog. they want the food. Let the drive and the food do it's job. I also have noticed, the higher the drive, the more the mess...but the greater the reward. Because one thing the dog learns is that being a nut job is not effective. They will eventually learn that being in a rush is not effective, and the best way to the food is to slow down and pay attention. 

And for implementing this, Circle tracks first, with five to seven pieces in each step. aged....just age the tracks from the get go. Don't put any information in their head that you do not want them to have. in every step. put the dog on the track and leave them alone....just go sit down. I swear in a few tracks you will see the dog get better and better. once they are eating all the food....and going all the way around without following the wind. Then I go to squares..

As for a pinch, with no disrespect to Thomas, cause he did just post a nice score at a trial. I do not want to punish a dog for a behavior I have encouraged. I would think that may cause some confusion. I also don't think the discomfort of the collar is actually teaching them to track slow and methodical. It's just teaching them to go slow in response to the collar. Once the collar is gone, I believe they will just revert to their prior behavior. Same as if you us a pinch to walk a dog, yes they will go slow with the pinch on. but once your on regular collar again...


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Young puppies circle tracks, once they have nailed this then serpentine tracks instead of straight tracks. For more experienced dogs serpentine as well. My tracking was going well about 2 months ago, then went to too much straight line tracking, and her speed came back too quickly and has created some problems for me. I went from a 91 in her IPO2 (with 8 points lost at the start) to 84 with 3 false indications in her first IPO3 to 72 and absolute crap everywhere in her track. Another thing was the judges progressively went from difficult to pretty forgiving on those 3 scores. I am now back to serpentine tracks to slow her down and to bring back a more methodical approach, as well as a bit of food on the track. I am also going to have to get together with Lance for tracking. This should get my nerves about where they would be for trial day.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

I think that most speed problems are caused by the dog being in the wrong state of mind when he starts the track and tracks that are too short for the dog to calm down and settle in. 

Things I would try would be:

Feed the dog before you track him
Exercise the dog before the track in a way that does not utilize drive..NO FETCHING
Sit with the dog for a while before the scent pad and let the dog relax and check out his surroundings
Make your track very long. For an inexperienced 5 month old dog I would start with a 300-400 paces. More experience and age means a longer track.
Don't play with the dog after the track. Just walk him back to the truck and put him away.
Don't jackpot the track at the end
Don't talk too much to the dog while he is on the track
Using a pinch to slow the dog is stupid. All it does is create inhibition and break the dogs confidence. I want my dog to as confident as possible so when he makes mistakes I don't get a lot of craziness.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Prong collar not pinch. There are lots of things that work for different dogs. The prong works along the same lines as a taut line vs off lead tracking. It works with an experienced tracker with high drive for tracking. Enough discomfort to keep his head clear but still slow him down. There are lots of other good ideas mentioned. See what works with this particular dog. Good Luck


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Aren't prong/pinch collars the same thing? Have I been missing fundamental information this entire time?


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Appreciate all the feedback - a lot of good ideas for me to think about.

I will say that I have, on a few occassions, taken the puppy out on long walks before his tracks, and he was noticably slower. Because of the awkward times of day we normally track, this is not ideal for me to do every time out but I'm thinking it may definitely be worth the effort.

Feeding him some food before tracking is also something I will consider, though I will probably stop that immediately if I notice him pick his head up on the track or lose any drive.

I've also been reading/speaking with a lot of people about circle tracking. Does anyone here not like this method for any reason? If I understand correctly, it's a great method to build the dog's confidence and independence on the track, but wouldn't they be self-rewarding (at least on the first few tracks) by running chaotically all over the place, to and from the track, and getting rewarded with food as he finds it?

I should mention that my TD is excellent at training tracking dogs, evident by her dogs consistently posting V tracking scores (and her winning the WDC FH championship in 2012 with 98 points), but I always like to hear what others are doing and why. She is a proponent of the prong collar to slow dogs down and it's tough to argue with her results.


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## Angie Stark (Jul 10, 2009)

I was told to try less food on the track. Every 5th step or 3rd or 7th depending on the dog and varying to make each piece more valuable. Its working for my mali girl so far


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I should mention that my TD is excellent at training tracking dogs, evident by her dogs consistently posting V tracking scores (and her winning the WDC FH championship in 2012 with 98 points), but I always like to hear what others are doing and why. She is a proponent of the prong collar to slow dogs down and it's tough to argue with her results.

What about two collars, pinch and "fur saver" (permissible IPO collar)? each attached to a line? 

Ageing of tracks

I never did circle tracks from the start but why not? I cannot see how this alone can build a dog's confidence?

Most important - low smelling food

One excellent thing would be to get your TD to walk beside you and check how you are handling your dog.

And / or walk behind her when she's tracking her dog - if she's good, there is nothing to beat this.

Hope I'm not treading on your toes ;-)


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Most important - low smelling food
> 
> One excellent thing would be to get your TD to walk beside you and check how you are handling your dog.
> 
> ...


Not at all.

With my older dog, he sometimes wears both his prong and fursaver, but I'll have the line on either/or. Honestly, a prong collar has the same affect on this dog that the fur saver has. I've tried using smaller ones (with added links), but they've just broken off.

My TD walks my tracks with me at least once a week, and I walk hers as well. Nothing beats that, but as I said, I don't believe a great dog trainer only learns one method and ignores every other technique.

I only track the puppy with kibble, slightly soaked.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

The 2 main benefits of circle, then serpentine tracks are 1: results in more methodical search 2: Better foundation for corners later, as the dog in straight track foundation work often learns to go in a straight line and not really track. They then start veering a bit to re-find the track. The place where it really shows up is in corners, where the dog goes past the track then veers around and then circles, which is a costly mistake.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> Aren't prong/pinch collars the same thing? Have I been missing fundamental information this entire time?


Same collar different use. It's a pinch collar when hooked up to the live ring and will tighten. It's a prong collar when hooked up to both rings so there is no tightening.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Dave Martin said:


> I should mention that my TD is excellent at training tracking dogs, evident by her dogs consistently posting V tracking scores (and her winning the WDC FH championship in 2012 with 98 points), but I always like to hear what others are doing and why. She is a proponent of the prong collar to slow dogs down and it's tough to argue with her results.



A prong collar to slow down a fast tracker?
I'll have to give that a try


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Same collar different use. It's a pinch collar when hooked up to the live ring and will tighten. It's a prong collar when hooked up to both rings so there is no tightening.


That's a new one on me :lol:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> Not at all.
> 
> With my older dog, he sometimes wears both his prong and fursaver, but I'll have the line on either/or. Honestly, a prong collar has the same affect on this dog that the fur saver has. I've tried using smaller ones (with added links), but they've just broken off.
> 
> ...


If the kibble is soaked, it will give off a stronger odour?

As much as I appreciate your interest in other methods, "I" would stick to my TD. 

By the way, here in Europe (not now allowed in Switzerand) we used sharpened collars with "fur savers" on the track. I cannot think a dog would not know the difference. The slight tug of the line attached to the prong, can slow down the dog and, when he is working slowly and accurately, there is no need for it - the "fur saver" will surfice.

The best trackers are the lhandlers =D> in a way.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

I've yet to see a dog track faster than I would allow.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> That's a new one on me :lol:


Me too!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Same collar different use. It's a pinch collar when hooked up to the live ring and will tighten. It's a prong collar when hooked up to both rings so there is no tightening.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

If you wouldn't correct your dog before it understood an exercise in obedience, why would you do it in tracking? I think correcting the dog for going fast once it understands how to track slowly is fine. But making pain and discomfort part of the dogs tracking foundation is a time bomb that will catch you later on. 

Most novice dog's speed comes from drive and excitement. These are two things that are easy to diminish over time. This is easily seen in many peoples obedience. When the dog is young and full of piss and vinegar they get very animated and fast performances. But once the dog is older and doesn't find the obedience as fun and motivating the performances become slower and less animated. The same thing happens in tracking. A dog speeding down the track in drive is a sign that the dog loves the work. Why would you punish this or make it painful? :screwy:


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I told you the differentiation I make between a prong and a pinch collar and why. I don't much care if you agree or disagree. Just like I don't really care if you think a prong collar is an effective way to slow down a fast tracker. Other trainers with impressive
tracking results agree with me.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I'm just legitimately wondering if this is common knowledge or if it's just what you do. 

Ie. when someone tells me to put my dog on a pinch do I know what they're talking about when I'm assuming they're both the same thing.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> A prong collar to slow down a fast tracker?


Correct.



Gillian Schuler said:


> If the kibble is soaked, it will give off a stronger odour?


Yes, but still less than hot dogs and other treats, which a lot of trainers use.



Gillian Schuler said:


> As much as I appreciate your interest in other methods, "I" would stick to my TD.


Presumably why YOU didn't start this thread ;-)



Christopher Smith said:


> If you wouldn't correct your dog before it understood an exercise in obedience, why would you do it in tracking? I think correcting the dog for going fast once it understands how to track slowly is fine. But making pain and discomfort part of the dogs tracking foundation is a time bomb that will catch you later on.
> 
> Most novice dog's speed comes from drive and excitement. These are two things that are easy to diminish over time. This is easily seen in many peoples obedience. When the dog is young and full of piss and vinegar they get very animated and fast performances. But once the dog is older and doesn't find the obedience as fun and motivating the performances become slower and less animated. The same thing happens in tracking. A dog speeding down the track in drive is a sign that the dog loves the work. Why would you punish this or make it painful? :screwy:


My answer, especially in the case of my Rott, is that his drive is causing him to miss the occassional corner. As you guessed, he loves to track, and goes into overdrive straight out of the truck each and every time no matter how long I walk him or make him sit quietly (or severely correct him). He'll track well, and nail his corners quite often, but sometimes he will begin moving too quickly and miss a corner. He immediately realizes when he has lost the track within a couple paces beyond the corner, and then will circle and find the next leg.

I realize this is only a relatively small point deduction in most cases, but if I can put together a plan that would make him track slower and more methodically, I know he will nail corners more consistenly. He is getting to be more and more consistent each week, he never lifts his head, rarely brings his nose above the grass, but most definitely because of my own errors in his foundation, he thinks the goal is to locate the articles quickly and hasn't learned the importance of carefully checking each and every step.

Simply put, I am trying to correct my past mistakes with one dog, and set my puppy up for success from the gate. The best tracking dogs I have personally ever seen did not track as quickly as he does and I just don't believe that they didn't have as much drive to start with. Tomorrow evening I am going to try feeding my older dog before we head out and see what that does - in hindsight, I probably should have been doing this for a while now.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> Correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now you are talking about correcting a dog for corners and I get that. Your dog understands corners. But I am talking about correcting a dog to slow it down.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Christopher Smith said:


> Now you are talking about correcting a dog for corners and I get that. Your dog understands corners. But I am talking about correcting a dog to slow it down.


My thinking is that slowing him down in general would be beneficial for his corners. 

I really don't think "correcting" is the right term for what I am looking to accomplish. I am trying to retrain him to track a bit more meticulously.

Honestly, since I have seen so much improvement over the past few months, it really may just be a matter of continuing to track more, and more, and more, and more.. and letting him learn on his own :-k


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> My thinking is that slowing him down in general would be beneficial for his corners.


I agree with you on that. Slowing the dog does tend to make the corners better. 



> Honestly, since I have seen so much improvement over the past few months, it really may just be a matter of continuing to track more, and more, and more, and more.. and letting him learn on his own :-k


 HA! Funny how that works. If you want a great tracking dog you have to put in a great amount of work. There is no way around that.


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

With my 2 youngsters, one is 6 months, one is 2 years, I have started using dry kibble rather than other more smelly foods, the younger one has very nice food drive so I have even been crumbling the kibble to make it smaller and harder to find. With these two, I give them a little pop on the fursaver to reduce any hectic behaviors. I have also been experimenting with circles which I really like, shows them all directions of the wind, just moved to serpentines with the 6 month old. Finally got the speed right on my 2 year old, so starting to do longer tracks. It always amazes me how different each dog is as far as tracking, so constantly trying to find methods which work for each dog.

With older dogs I have used the prong to slow on a separate line, I use the word "easy", if they slow down, good, if not, they get a correction.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

This is a video of the pup (17 weeks) working a connected-step track, about 24 paces:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OHyu1MOJ9Q

Please critique away..

I like the connected steps because I believe it's a good foundation for the left-to-right head movement they should do on normal tracks, and because it keeps their head down.

When he is consistently perfect on these and I move to regular steps, I plan on throwing in serpentines.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Along with what I wrote above, I think you should back off the pup and give him space to work. Young puppies tend to see everyone in the world as competition for food. And your puppy may be racing down the track trying to beat you to it. I also would not hold him back so hard because because it causes an oppositional reflex reaction.

"I have to hurry, this guy is trying to hold me back and steal my food!!!"


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Christopher Smith said:


> Along with what I wrote above, I think you should back off the pup and give him space to work. Young puppies tend to see everyone in the world as competition for food. And your puppy may be racing down the track trying to beat you to it. I also would not hold him back so hard because because it causes an oppositional reflex reaction.
> 
> "I have to hurry, this guy is trying to hold me back and steal my food!!!"


So what would keep him from missing several steps and jumping to wherever he wants to go? I'm pretty certain if I gave him slack, he would race ahead and find a step with food, jump ahead and find another step with food, etc.. missing steps along the way.

Is the thinking that eventually he will realize he should slow down and take his time? or do you not put as much emphasis on the dog going to each and every single step with your method?

Not trying to be combative - genuinely trying to understand the logic here.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Like this. 

The lack of rewards in the curves has taught mine scent *must* be followed to get back to rewarding. With a fast tracker I also either track off-lead or dragging a line depending on if I need to be able to "deny" crappy tracking getting a reward inadvertently.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks for the visual, Hunter.

For puppies, do you lay this type of track in a single line (one foot in front of the other), or regular two step walking?


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Dave Martin said:


> Thanks for the visual, Hunter.
> 
> For puppies, do you lay this type of track in a single line (one foot in front of the other), or regular two step walking?


I always two step walk, but with a puppy there is far less gap between the inner toe of the trailing foot and the inner heel of the lead foot.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> So what would keep him from missing several steps and jumping to wherever he wants to go? I'm pretty certain if I gave him slack, he would race ahead and fiIs the thinking that eventually he will realize he should slow down and take his time? nd a step with food, jump ahead and find another step with food, etc.. missing steps along the way.


Yep that is exactly what will happen...*for a while.* But if you lay your track long enough the dog will settle down and discover that he can get more food from less effort if he goes slowly down the track and checks each footstep. I want the dog to understand, without my influence, that it's in his best interest and he gets more reward for less effort if he tracks slowly.




> or do you not put as much emphasis on the dog going to each and every single step with your method?


I put a ton of emphasis on checking each footstep, but I don't think that putting food in every step is the only way to do that. Remember, the schutzhund ideal of footstep to footstep tracking came about before they were putting food in every footstep or tracking with no food at all. :-k Is not a food picking up contest. And if the dog is passing the food and is still on the track the chances are he is doing what we want him to do ...TRACK. 


Here is a video of my dog Judah at about 18 months old. He has about 40 tracks at that point and I made the video as a baseline right before I got went through a 3 month push where I tracked everyday. He has only had 3-5 tracks with food in every footstep in his life. Even though I was fine with the basic tracking shown, what I was really pleased with is the dog's confidence when he is on the track and the way he works the track out when he's lost . IMO, more points are lost in IPO tracking because the dog lacks the skills to recover from mistakes than anything else. Also notice that I am not influencing the dog very much. I'm letting the dog make his own experiences and learn from them. If your dog is not making mistakes you are not training. About a year later this dog did a 93pts FH at a regional and now has his FH2 with 100pts and IPO1 with 99pts in A. 

Also notice that he is a little crazy and hectic (aka being a Malinois) in the beginning but by the end of the track he is calm and in the correct tracking mood. This is why I do long tracks. It gives the dog a chance to find that mood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWFh3LZ0Kk

I have some more video of him tracking at the same age as your GSD (name?) I'll try to find and upload them.





> Not trying to be combative - genuinely trying to understand the logic here.


 
I didn't think you were.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

"I should mention that my TD is excellent at training tracking dogs, evident by her dogs consistently posting V tracking scores (and her winning the WDC FH championship in 2012 with 98 points), but I always like to hear what others are doing and why. She is a proponent of the prong collar to slow dogs down and it's tough to argue with her results."

What has the TD suggested to fix the issues ur speaking of and how much time or commitment have u devoted to the suggestions? Has she made any observations of ur handling of ur dog and pup that were consistent or helpful? Are the methods working? 

I understand her accomplishments and commend her, but we all know certain dogs respond better to other techniques/methods. Be careful that what ur doing w/ ur club and TD don't "clash",w/ what u gather here for lack of a better term. Also, u have a Rottie w/ REALLY nice drives. A "real" Rottie. Methods that work for mals or GSD may need to be "tweeked" for ur Rottie.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Zakia Days said:


> What has the TD suggested to fix the issues ur speaking of and how much time or commitment have u devoted to the suggestions? Has she made any observations of ur handling of ur dog and pup that were consistent or helpful? Are the methods working?
> 
> I understand her accomplishments and commend her, but we all know certain dogs respond better to other techniques/methods. Be careful that what ur doing w/ ur club and TD don't "clash",w/ what u gather here for lack of a better term. Also, u have a Rottie w/ REALLY nice drives. A "real" Rottie. Methods that work for mals or GSD may need to be "tweeked" for ur Rottie.


She tracks on a prong, but there are a couple reasons I am electing not to do that right now. It works excellent for her and her dogs.

I have my older dog (Kingston) on a program she designed for us and have seen nothing but improvement in him - he's actually been having his best tracks to date in the past few weeks. Per her advise, I have also been staying closer to him approaching corners and creating more distance on straight legs and approaching articles while he's consistent. I credit his improvement on all of the above and my varying food placement appropriately.

This thread is for ideas to possibly implement with these, or future, dogs to continue to improve. As you said, every dog is unique and I'd like to learn as much as I can and apply what I think is best.

Chris,
I gave Felon some slack for the first time this morning and was pretty damn shocked with the result. He tracked great, got spun only once and worked it out himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvzO0jhs78k

Now I'm left to wonder if holding him back in each step on every single one of his tracks up to this point contributed to his hitting every step today, or if he never really needed to be held back at all. Either way, I like what I'm seeing.

..


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

thanks for sharing some good advice on this thread. i tried a longer track with lo today, with smaller bait pieces mixed in, and was pleased to see that he did settle in around the middle of the track and work better at the end than at the beginning. since we've just started tracking again after a _looooong_ hiatus, i had only been doing short, 50 pace circle tracks or serpentines with him. this morning's track was 100 paces, and the last 50 got better and better as he went. tomorrow's track will be even longer to see how he does.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

*So what would keep him from missing several steps and jumping to wherever he wants to go? *

That would also be my argument but, given you are able to control the pup, line short, or teach him outside of the tracking to learn the command "slowly", it wouldn't be a problem?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> That would also be my argument but, given you are able to control ....


I try not to control the dog in any way on the track. I want the dog to make his own experience on the track. For instance, I don't try to control the dogs pace. I just set up the conditions for the dog to track at a certain pace then I make sure that he is rewarded for correct pace. 

Almost everyone has had the experience where you got lost on the track and thought that your track went one way, while the dog was following the track going another way. You punished the dog only to find out that the dog was correct and on the track and you were an idiot. I think that we do this all of the time on a micro scale. We think we know how the dogs nose and mind works when we really don't. When it comes to scent, the dog is working on a level that we can't fathom. So if you sometimes can't find the track, that you made, how arrogant is it that you believe that you understand everything else going on on the track? I need feedback. Does this make sense?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> I need feedback. Does this make sense?


Absolutely. I have thought this for years but never heard/read this from anyone else until now. I'm not actively tracking at the moment but I've spent literally a few hundred hours behind dogs while they worked scent and know what you say is true.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Deleted




(Decided to just read.)


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Dave Martin said:


> She tracks on a prong, but there are a couple reasons I am electing not to do that right now. It works excellent for her and her dogs.
> 
> I have my older dog (Kingston) on a program she designed for us and have seen nothing but improvement in him - he's actually been having his best tracks to date in the past few weeks. Per her advise, I have also been staying closer to him approaching corners and creating more distance on straight legs and approaching articles while he's consistent. I credit his improvement on all of the above and my varying food placement appropriately.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear all is going well and ur getting good results. Wishing u great success w/ ur future training and trial goals.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Keith Jenkins said:


> I've yet to see a dog track faster than I would allow.


X
You are unusual on here :-D

I would be very interested in hearing your views on this.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> Correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First off, there is an extreme diffrence in correcting a dog in obedience and correcting a dog in tracking.

Some dogs take the corrections in obedience with a blink of the eye. The same dog can be very sensitive when corrected in tracking (maybe due to a lesser tracking drive) or a bad start due to a handler that is not fully aware of environment influences on tracking.

What I miss on this forum is the discussion on the environments when tracking.

How can you let your dog stray from the track if you are not aware of why he is doing it? There are many weather elemets - wind, sun, snow, frost, etc. If your dog has problems in tracking but you have not read about the elements that influce the track, will you punish him or let him work round it, according to the weather?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm having trouble on here big time. This was an answer to another post,


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Maybe my fault :lol:


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Gillian Schuler said:


> X
> You are unusual on here :-D
> 
> I would be very interested in hearing your views on this.


I have yet to track a dog that could pull me down the track any faster than I would allow. It's pretty simple really...not complicated at all...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Keith Jenkins said:


> I have yet to track a dog that could pull me down the track any faster than I would allow. It's pretty simple really...not complicated at all...


I know but *control" sucks on here...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I think the point is..if the dogs tracks correctly fast..there is no issue..


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Keith Jenkins said:


> I have yet to track a dog that could pull me down the track any faster than I would allow. It's pretty simple really...not complicated at all...


I think people are more concerned with the drive state of the dog. Not so much the speed. though the speed is the biggest indicator. and thus a dog that goes fast cannot be very precise and careful. If he can the track is extremely is. I think it is a bit more complicated. and not that simple. because if it just took the handler managing his speed, well wed be posting 100s. I think Chris smith has a lot to offer on the matter . My experience has been similar to just let the dog make mistakes and for him to change internally.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

James Downey said:


> ...If he can the track is extremely is...
> 
> Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2


HUH?


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

I'm not going down this road again defending how I train because someone else doesn't do it that way. My dogs have all tracked very well with the way I do things. 

Today is Wednesday in the USA...someone want to argue with that one also?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> HUH?


Writing on a phone sucks. I meant to say the track is extremely easy.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Keith Jenkins said:


> I'm not going down this road again defending how I train because someone else doesn't do it that way. My dogs have all tracked very well with the way I do things.
> 
> Today is Wednesday in the USA...someone want to argue with that one also?


NO its not , its THURSDAY


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## Maggie Gould (Feb 4, 2012)

This is only a problem for footstep tracking, not for tracking through drive.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Maggie

That makes no sense. I've seen plenty of foot step trackers that are tracking in drive. Speed has nothing to do with drive.
Speed can be about concentration and focus and control.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maggie Gould said:


> This is only a problem for footstep tracking, not for tracking through drive.


Maggie, welcome and hi, and please don't forget your intro/bio here:
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/

Thanks!


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