# The 2010 Sieger Show



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Presenting the 2010 Sieger Show!!!

This is the "Working Class"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oixqmt3sojg

Sorry to anyone that entered their dog, but I just can understand this conformation thing at all. That's how they decide the best GSD, run around in a circle with a second handler acting like they are off their meds!
I really did try to keep an opened mind, I even helped some train for it back in Las Vegas. Who dreamed this crap up?

Eddie


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

WHAT THE HELL, I would go nutts to. How do you even judge something as **** up as that. Million dogs going around in a circle, people screaming playing with stupid ass sound makers. Handler skills have to be the poorest I have seen ( they handle a dog like my 3.5 year old does. ). I mean really what the hell do they hope to accomplish thats even close to bragging about. Not only that the dogs look spent from doing a lite trot and out of shape and tungs hanging to the ground. They must run these dogs but once a year and do no prior conditioning. I am so glad I stay so far away from that side of the dog world because it makes me sad. But on the upside if your looking for a lazy ass house dog that will help collect dust I believe I would go there and offer someone 5 cents for one, I dont understand how in the world these dogs sell for alot more than working dogs do.](*,)](*,)](*,):twisted:


----------



## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

For sure you don't have to like what they do or agree with it. Training a dog for this is A LOT of work. May not be the type we enjoy, but to each their own. It's even tougher if you have a working line dog like I do. 

I like the bi-color GSD second to last 
Looks warm out there...

I would rather be sitting in the shade. 

Julie


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

I understand that there are fanciers of all types out there. I just couldn't see why someone would actually judge something like this or better yet I would hate to be the judge I mean how could you even think or see straight after all that ridiculous noise. Also what makes a dog worthy of breeding by running a dog in a continous circle.


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Harry Keely said:


> Also what makes a dog worthy of breeding by running a dog in a continous circle.


That's not all there is to it. The dogs in the 'working class' also have to do bitework (which happens before conformation, and dogs that don't pass bitework are not allowed to participate in conformation), and technically are supposed to be breed surveyed before being bred. ;-)


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I photographed at this years SE Regionals Conformation "Show" - sorry but it was like watching paint dry for me and I vowed to never attend another one. I was sooooo happy when they moved to the "working" part of the breed survey - but even then I was pretty disappointed in what was required to pass. There were some nice sport (SchH) dogs there and great people.....just not my cup of tea....to each their own.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Didn't you guys see the SV show handler/double handler training film that Jim Nash was so kind to post the other day?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyr1ugzxXM

All joking aside, it's simply a disgrace considering the VA1 dog apparently was horribly out of shape, has nerves of CRAP, attacking other dogs, his handler, etc., so it seems to me, the further back of the line, the better. I think there were 2 working line dogs, both were placed at the back of the line (of course).

Personally I just don't get it, I know some really nice people who are into it, and like Lacey says, to each their own, but I wouldn't waste my time with it.


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Didn't you guys see the SV show handler/double handler training film that Jim Nash was so kind to post the other day?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyr1ugzxXM
> 
> All joking aside, it's simply a disgrace considering the VA1 dog apparently was horribly out of shape, has nerves of CRAP, attacking other dogs, his handler, etc., so it seems to me, the further back of the line, the better. I think there were 2 working line dogs, both were placed at the back of the line (of course).
> ...


Ahhhh, but isn't that the catch? If you're into working dogs, shouldn't you cater to showing to some extent just to represent your dogs as:

A) One representation of what the breed can, and should for that matter, look and act like? And;

B) Possibly to some extent an example to hold show breeders more accountable by representing with a physically capable, overall sound specimen that lives up to the original breed standard and its historical job(s)?

I don't show my dogs, but the person who bred my dog's father (or owned my dog's grandmother at least) does and I believe it's because it keeps her foot in the door of the UKC and helps with the direction of the breed and what she does with it (not just confirmation, but that's part of it, she's a UKC judge). So it's not for me, but I see why she does it (or why I THINK she does it) and that it is actually more work than I suspect a lot might imagine.

-Cheers


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

At one point I thought about in when they decided to allow long hairs, but after watching it on y-tube, I didn't feel the effort would amount to anything. It just to rediculious IMHO.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

David Ruby said:


> Ahhhh, but isn't that the catch? If you're into working dogs, shouldn't you cater to showing to some extent just to represent your dogs as:
> 
> A) One representation of what the breed can, and should for that matter, look and act like? And;
> 
> ...


No, I don't see it that way at all. First off, the show line breeders are 100% aware of the differences between their dogs and working line GSDs, they prefer the show lines over the working lines and that's their perogative. 

The last thing in the world I want is the general public to become even slightly interested in working line GSDs, they are better protected by obscurity. 

When a working line dog needs a showrating for a breed survey, there are plenty of good judges who will award the ones who deserve it, a "v" or "sg", and since a "g" is good enough for a breed survey it's good enough for me.


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

From the mouth of a 6 yr old watching this video with me, mom: Mom, what in the hell are they doing and why is that dog dragging them?

Me: Watch your mouth, I don't know, and if your dog did that it would suck.

Sometimes the most simplistic answers come from a small child.


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> From the mouth of a 6 yr old watching this video with me, mom: Mom, what in the hell are they doing and why is that dog dragging them?
> 
> Me: Watch your mouth, I don't know, and if your dog did that it would suck.
> 
> Sometimes the most simplistic answers come from a small child.


 
LOL, that's priceless!!!\\/


----------



## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I wish they would officially seperate the breed into WL and SL,


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> I wish they would officially seperate the breed into WL and SL,


Oh hell Al, I'd be happy if at least the ASS breeders would finally get off the pot and officially rename their dogs and close the breed books!!!!!!!


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I forgot to say I don't believe conformation show ring tells us anything of much value when it comes to grading performance animals. If you want to see if their conformation is correct for the job, judge them doing the job.


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> No, I don't see it that way at all. First off, the show line breeders are 100% aware of the differences between their dogs and working line GSDs, they prefer the show lines over the working lines and that's their perogative.
> 
> The last thing in the world I want is the general public to become even slightly interested in working line GSDs, they are better protected by obscurity.
> 
> When a working line dog needs a showrating for a breed survey, there are plenty of good judges who will award the ones who deserve it, a "v" or "sg", and since a "g" is good enough for a breed survey it's good enough for me.


Solely playing Devil's Advocate:

1) It has nothing to do with strictly show breeders and arguably everything to do with continued survival of the working lines.

2) Why shouldn't the general public be aware of the working _anything?_ I understand high-drive, hard, dominant GSD, Malinois, Dutchies, Rotties, Presa, American Bulldogs, Bouvier, or near any other dog are not for Joe Average, but bear with me. Why shouldn't the general public both become aware of working line dogs, and if interested learn how to handle ones a/o support a good working breeder by getting one that is a good fit for a reasonable handler even if they aren't going to go into SchH/FR/MR/etc.? For the sake of argument, if I want "just a pet" I'm still probably better off getting a lower-drive dog from a working line if I'm willing to do right with the training, handling, & exercise of the dog.

I understand those aren't absolutes, and they are honestly not _entirely_ what I believe, but I believe there is something to getting a not-great-for-sport/police/work dog from a great working breeder if/when available if I want a dog that lacks the health/temperament problems popping up in a lot of breeds. Why shouldn't everybody deserve that?

-Cheers


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

David Ruby said:


> Solely playing Devil's Advocate:
> 
> 1) It has nothing to do with strictly show breeders and arguably everything to do with continued survival of the working lines.
> 
> -Cheers


Increased exposure at conformation shows has nothing to do with the continued survival of the working lines.


----------



## Brian McConnell (Feb 6, 2010)

Just got my breed survey and show rating Last week in Ontario Canada, yes we were put to the last of the line but my dog will be able to walk in 2-3 years most of the "show dogs "could hardly run even as young dogs. will not say they are ruining the Shepherd but hope we can breed good ones for working.
Brian


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

so all the screaming and tweeting toys are to keep dog focused on moving forward around this circle i assume...

looks real boring...

what is required in the bitework?


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> what is required in the bitework?


You would like to see the supposedly best of the best big fluffy bunnies playing with a sleeve? Here you go, video from the 2008 Sieger Show. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwg8dDOSj0I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NiT96r3k2Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-SbBOkQTGo&feature=related (The VA1 dpg goes 2nd. Notice how he comes off the sleeve with the stick hits. He STILL is given a "pronounced" rating) 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E09xVRKc6Cg


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Increased exposure at conformation shows has nothing to do with the continued survival of the working lines.


I more or less agree with that. That said, two questions (non-rhetorical, I don't really have the answers just suspicions):

1) Wouldn't it help with rescuing/placements of non-working caliber, or just not ultra-high caliber dogs (from a breeder, rescue, rehoming, etc.), if working lines were at least represented in the show and their look/type became part of the norm? I think if you have a working line dog that doesn't cut it as your next SchH/FR/MR III prospect, it seems like it would be harder to place (even with an active/suitable owner/family/whatever) since it would be almost unrecognizable to most and they might go somewhere else. This might not be a huge consideration, but to some it might matter.

2) Doesn't having working line dogs represented help maintain breed standard? This is where I kind of disagree with you up there. In short, letting the show crowd run wild leads to them taking the German Shepherd and turning it into something kind of frog-rear-ended with problems. Not to bag on dog shows, but it has done lots of harm. By using working-line dogs to maintain some vision of what the dog did (and arguably _should_ look like) helps keep things like the English Bulldog, Bull Terrier, and showline German Shepherd from happening. Plus, if you ever have to go to showline dogs for any reason it might help maintain the quality of said showlines, a/o allow for working dogs to be recognized in the show ring game. Look at what Don T. did. If I wanted an Airedale, I'd go to him or somebody like him. Once he stops breeding, his dogs' form is probably gone. Perhaps if he and people with his dogs showed them and had some success, it might plant a seed in people's mind to breed toward that form which might positively effect the breed. Probably won't happen, but I can rant about it, can't I? 

Part of my concern is honestly keeping physically/mentally unstable dogs from being the norm even with pet-only show dogs. However, I also care enough about dogs to hate seeing the breeds (working a/o show) maintained at some level of dignity. I mean, I DO think in some cases it could help both sides if there wasn't such a huge chasm. Still, I'm not going to argue too loudly with people who want working dogs but don't want to play the show ring game. I do see why some do so, however, or why they might.

-Cheers


----------



## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

here is a FUN video of conformation classes - it was an unofficial match. Sure, most owners were not experienced, but I had a good time. My dog was one of 3 working line dogs there out of about 30. 

lots of puppies and antics - I think this video (I filmed it) shows a relationship between handler and dog. you may not agree w/ the show lines, but there is something for everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3UyjQvqtWM


----------



## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Sorry Donna, 
i believe SL's hurt the GSD more than any one thing. If folks don't want the real deal they should get another breed. If Capt Max could watch most SL's "work" he'd be spinning like a turbine in his grave. Sad as hell


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

DAVID:

No I don't think having more working line dogs in the show ring will effect rescues in any way shape or form. 

No I don't think having working line dogs in the show ring has any effect on the breed standard.

I think you are assuming the show line people would change if they knew better. Show line people aren't stupid, they know what they want, and they don't want working line dogs, that's their world and their perogative. Also show line dogs can be just as healthy as working line dogs, and there are good breeders of show line dogs, just as there are poor breeders of working line dogs. For most people, this is the correct choice of dogs, not the working line dog. I will agree there are working line dogs that are appropriate for active families and guess what - they find them, without the "help" of more show ring exposure.

I think you and I will hav e to just agree to disagree.


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I wondered why the few working lines that did enter the SS were placed last in-line?

Is the show crowd trying to make a statement?


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

No Edward, this is nothing new, it's the way it always is, and you also find this in other breeds. In our breed, the big split happened with the influence of the Martin Brothers.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Max Stephanitz gave out a warning as early as 1929 in his report on the Ankörung in Autumn 1928.

He said that the Show sport, as attractive as it may be, as useful it can be under the circumstances, should never make us lose sight of the correct breeding direction. It has to remain subordinate to the higher mission, just as in all areas of life, conservation of the species goes before self-preservation.

He said the Körung must always stand above the show.

He also said that if we visited shows, rifled through canine journals, etc. we'd find that other breeds are being threatened too, because the breed's original function is not being adhered to and mentions the Scottish "cousin" that became a Fashion victim.

When I watched those poor, hump-backed creatures being dragged along by those idiots amongst all that screaming and squeaking, I wonder why the more intelligent breeders of the GSD were not able to assert themselves and that it has now ended up as it has.

Why can't judges forbid the motivating with squeaky toys and just allow dog and handler in the ring and insist they show the dog so that the gait, back, muscles, etc. can be judged. Probably none of those poor creatures would put one foot in front of the other voluntarily.

I think Max v. S. wouldn't just turn in his grave - he'd die again but of shame! It's good that he can't see that his efforts mainly fell on stony ground.


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey Susan,



susan tuck said:


> I think you are assuming the show line people would change if they knew better. Show line people aren't stupid, they know what they want, and they don't want working line dogs, that's their world and their perogative. Also show line dogs can be just as healthy as working line dogs, and there are good breeders of show line dogs, just as there are poor breeders of working line dogs. For most people, this is the correct choice of dogs, not the working line dog. I will agree there are working line dogs that are appropriate for active families and guess what - they find them, without the "help" of more show ring exposure.
> 
> I think you and I will hav e to just agree to disagree.


Well, I do mostly agree with you, on all of that. The only two areas I think I really disagree with you are:

1) While there ARE good, healthy show breeders, the lack of breeding to be able to complete any semblance of a job has allowed the creation of form that is anti-functional.

2) I think the show ring has an impact on working dogs. The Malinois and German Shepherd lines might be solidified, so perhaps this mainly refers to the "off-breeds." However, I've heard, read, and seen evidence showing how trends in dog shows have caused breeds to evolve in very counterproductive fashions. Sure, coming from a Bulldog background (and before that living with Dachshunds growing up) I've seen the extreme examples. To some extent, even "healthy" examples of the more exaggerated breeds suffer the likelihood of serious issues. Primarily from my experience, the back problems in Dachshunds, the breathing problems in Bulldogs, loss of athleticism in Bulldog breeds. Even the Presa and Boerboel have suffered from dogs being cut out of the breeding pool (black dogs I believe are largely excluded from Presa Canario or at least from my understanding the Dogo Canario registries, and show lines have apparently had a huge negative impact on Boerboel). There's been talk of how the showline has screwed the Bouvier as well. Even German Shepherds have notoriously terrible hips. While there are some good ones out there, even among working people what I tend to hear is finding a good German Shepherd with great hips, bomb proof temperament, good structure, not to mention good working ability, is kind of hard. Not that it can't be done, but a lot seemed to have just sighed a deep breath and then got a Malinois and been done with it.

Overall, I think you are largely correct. I just think a push-back leading to at least a representation in the show ring is not a bad thing. Sure, people still find working line dogs. However, it might be after one or more problematic show line dogs. I also think the inclusion of working dogs would at least provide greater awareness of dogs with less issues common in show line dogs. If nothing else, it might keep show line folk from having a monopoly, as I think there are decent handlers who are active but not working dog people that have no idea there are better dogs from any of the working breeds than the show folk are throwing out there.

But I'm fine agreeably disagreeing with you (at least in part). Heck, I'm fine with being wrong! I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong and learning, FWIW.

-Cheers


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

David there is no "right or wrong" it's merely different opinions. You are as entitled to yours as I am to mine.

I agree Gillian, and I agree so much I joined RSV2000!


----------



## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

David,
The show ring is just bullshit. People want lawn ornaments with no drive. It's terrible. The GSD is supposed to be a utility breed, any job you have, whatever it is, he should be willing. The showline shit just doesn't get it. It's not an opinion it's a fact. I love the GSD and i actually have a showline but it's apples and oranges comparing him to my working lines dogs, a completely different animal.

If folks don't continually drive home the point of what a GSD is supposed to be then the nervy lawn ornaments will become the norm.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Boah! Good for you.

There's a completely divided community in Germany SV vs RSV. I'm no expert on this but some of the best helpers in Germany are Horst Toporek and Wilfried Lüneberg. I heard about Wilfried "Fifi" Lüneberg when first started training with the GSDs. They are with RSV.

Let's face it though, there are some very good breeders of working dogs under the SV, some have joined RSV some have not, but neither of these organisations can "make" a good breeder, they can only support them!

BTW, Helmut Raiser showed a dog in the UO at a "workshop" or similar and before he entered the "arena" he gave the dog a crack with the whip.

One person who was present then described this as unfounded whereupon it produced pages and pages of posts.

Apparently this dog was taken over by HR from a widow whose husband was the owner of the dog and HR was asked to place him. He apparently said that he could not do this without working the dog first. The dog had never learned to obey humans, communication was nil and he often bit the handler in the leg. That HR took him through the OB with only one or two insurgencies, speaks for his quality. (HR's)

Just shows you, consequence is good but doesn't always solve every problem. However these aren't problems that the "humpbacked" incur.


----------



## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> I wondered why the few working lines that did enter the SS were placed last in-line?
> 
> Is the show crowd trying to make a statement?



The reason why the WL are last is because it is like bring a mule to a horse show. There are some WL that are very conformational correct. People are looking into this more than it really is... a beauty contest…. nothing more nothing less. What it comes down to it is breeding. 

I feel sorry for the dogs that have to the bite work. My .02 get rid of the bite work and make the dogs that are supposal have a title do a Sch 3 routine or even better yet something like the Mal Korung. This is just MO.

All the hoopla running around the ring are done with several other breeds as well at their confirmation shows in Europe.


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I thought it looked and sounded like a parade for the Special Olympics that involved dogs. My husband walked in with a pissed off look on his face and without even looking at the screen said "It sounds like a ****ing Indian Raid."

That's my special contribution to this thread (grin).


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

This thread is totally worth reading if for no other reason than for this:



Ashley Campbell said:


> From the mouth of a 6 yr old watching this video with me, mom: Mom, what in the hell are they doing and why is that dog dragging them?
> 
> Me: Watch your mouth, I don't know, and if your dog did that it would suck.


And this:



Nicole Stark said:


> I thought it looked and sounded like a parade for the Special Olympics that involved dogs. My husband walked in with a pissed off look on his face and without even looking at the screen said "It sounds like a ****ing Indian Raid."


Sure I wasn't impressed with the video, but the comments from the peanut gallery are priceless.

-Cheers


----------



## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Coming from two other working breeds that each handle this issue differently, I'd like to share a little of what I've seen and learned. I have to admit that I wish I had it in me to write something real (an article or a book) about dog politics: the manner in which working registries cope with AKC registration, conformation and sport breeding are particular interests of mine.

The JRTCA (Jack Russell Terrier Club of America) does not allow any AKC registered dogs on their books and closed their books when they realized that the AKC was preparing to recognize Jack Russells, so they effectively kept the main body of Jack Russells out of the AKC books and accept no AKC terriers into their own. But they have (or at least had when I was active there) very hotly contested comformation trials as a part of the club's official activities, and the tension between the show ring and the work was always very apparent.

I remember one really nice looking little stud dog by a "legendary" American stud dog and out of an imported bitch. This dam seriously looked like she had some sort of "other terrier" very close in her back ground. She had a head and bone that certainly would have done a patterdale proud but probably came from something even farther afield from earth dogs because her handsome son never earned a single worthwhile working certificate and many of his offspring didn't work to speak of. Her handsomne son (tons of head and bone, crazy double coat and a tiny compressible chest ) was widely bred to despite the fact that he didn't work and his popularity only really diminished when (I think I'm remembering right) he came up with adult cataracts (a condition that the JRTCA is a bit hysterical about imo). 

Not long before I stopped doing the Jack Russell thing, I remember one of our club administrators in an address to the club suggesting that we had pretty much arrived at a correct earthdog and so really needed to ratchet down the conformation showing because it was starting to be a negative influence on the breed.

The other group of dogs I' have some understanding of is working border collies, registered with the ABCA and which compete in USBCHA sheepdog trials. Sheepdog folks are in some disagreement about the AKC thing, but within the working community there is like zero concern with conformation for conformation sake. I mean a lot of people tend to like a smooth coated dog just because they are easier to keep clean, and I've heard people joke about adding another hundred bucks to a puppy price for a blue eye or a leg with ticking, but that's about it for beauty.

I was still a novice when I had to stop running my dog due to my own poor health but I think I can say with confidence that the demands of the hill are such that sheepdog handlers have their hands full breeding dogs that will do the work without worrying about fluffy coats. But what I find really interesting in the working border collie world is that they allow their puppies to be sold to fanciers and sport people and to be registerd with the AKC.

This is a great way for people to breed for working and still have nice pet homes for the puppies they don't keep for themselves. I have to say that I was assured by a number of people whom I know to be authorities that there is no concern that these AKC dogs will come back into the working breeding stock. The working comminity is small and connected and well, I'd have to say "religous" in their devotion to the work. No way they'd waste their time with breeding stock that wasn't from impeccable "unpolluted" working lines. One interesting issue that is sometimes discussed is that the dogs are now too ofen bred for sheepdog trials and that somehow this diminishes ability for "real" work. Having watched the International sheep dog trial in the U.K., I can't see how any dog that even made it onto that trial field would not be an insanely useful hill dog, and I think most sheepdog people feel the same.

I'm not posting this to derail your discussion: just wanted to remind you that you aren't alone in your struggles with this issue and to share with you some of the ways that other working dog communities are dealing with it.

To me, it's most important to remember that the modern world really is all about surface and appearance and is really intolerant of the idiosincracies of working dogs. It's so hard to breed good workers and keep them and their offspring safe and sound. So, I'm sad when I see the people who share a deep commitment to their working dogs being divided over non-work issues. Personally, I admire the sheepdog solution. Keep your working community strong and smart and its common feeling and devotion to the work will make it unecessary for the breed clubs and organizations to make a lot of divisive and exclusive rules that just get everyone mad at each other.


----------



## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Lol i guess I wrote a book after all! Sorry!


----------



## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

If you take the showlines as a different breed, then they aren't ruining the GSD. Since the only real GSD is a working line GSD!!! 

BTW, at the small show I attended I expected to see alot of frog dogs but only saw one. or maybe it was the tall grass hiding their weak hocks. It WAS depressing to hear someone critique a dog and say it needed to be "firmer" when what they meant was the hind end suks.

D


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I photographed at this years SE Regionals Conformation "Show"


are those pics available online anywhere? i've heard there are some good ones & would like to check 'em out.


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

kristin tresidder said:


> are those pics available online anywhere? i've heard there are some good ones & would like to check 'em out.


 
First time ever taking "glamour shots" of dogs.....I think someone misinformed you but here is the link:
http://laceync.smugmug.com/Other/2010-UScA-Southeast-Regional/12360122_JwA9f#883288845_YpYoF


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> If you take the showlines as a different breed, then they aren't ruining the GSD. Since the only real GSD is a working line GSD!!!
> 
> BTW, at the small show I attended I expected to see alot of frog dogs but only saw one. or maybe it was the tall grass hiding their weak hocks. It WAS depressing to hear someone critique a dog and say it needed to be "firmer" when what they meant was the hind end suks.
> 
> D


What a load of crap!


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Lacey Vessell said:


> First time ever taking "glamour shots" of dogs.....I think someone misinformed you but here is the link:
> http://laceync.smugmug.com/Other/2010-UScA-Southeast-Regional/12360122_JwA9f#883288845_YpYoF


JMO although you probally don't care but there were some nice shot quality taken I thought. I still hate and don't know why this kinda of stuff exist though.


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> I thought it looked and sounded like a parade for the Special Olympics that involved dogs. My husband walked in with a pissed off look on his face and without even looking at the screen said "It sounds like a ****ing Indian Raid."
> 
> That's my special contribution to this thread (grin).


Thats funny, I have a exact story but roles reverse. My wife came in and said to me what the F is that and then I showed her and she said you got to be kidding me right. I said know its real and not a goof video.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Didn't you guys see the SV show handler/double handler training film that Jim Nash was so kind to post the other day?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyr1ugzxXM

I peed my pants the first time I saw this. We did not have cable where I lived and Monty Python came on PBS. It was a friday, and my best friend was over, as we had a soccer game the next morning. That was the funniest shit I had ever seen. 

SNL was pretty good, but never really came close to these guys. If this had been on SNL I am sure they would have made a movie out of it. #-o


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I think the SV type show dog is amazing!
How many other dogs can run around the ring and look like they're squatting for a crap at the same time?


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> How many other dogs can run around the ring and look like they're squatting for a crap at the same time?


just another example of how truly talented GSD are, bob  

unfortunately, even a GSD can't make it look attractive


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> I think the SV type show dog is amazing!
> How many other dogs can run around the ring and look like they're squatting for a crap at the same time?


Hence the term butt draggers!


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

You should look at some of the GSD butt draggers in IPO - Stargazer's Butt Draggers :lol:

A judge, at one time a very good international judge, at our club, asked me,scavingly, after I had skitted at them "Try to get your dog to do that!"

and I answered - "I never shalll!"

They look as "cooked up" as the show lines, no kiddin'!

There are no flies on me


----------



## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

I met a lady last weekend who owned GSDs for last 25 years, 8 in total, all showline. 

I was walking one of my dog in the woods, we got chatting, I showed her a bit of obedience, ball chasing. She was shocked. She could not believe they were the same breed. Her mouth was open the whole 30 minutes were were talking.


----------



## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

James Degale said:


> I met a lady last weekend who owned GSDs for last 25 years, 8 in total, all showline.
> 
> I was walking one of my dog in the woods, we got chatting, I showed her a bit of obedience, ball chasing. She was shocked. She could not believe they were the same breed. Her mouth was open the whole 30 minutes were were talking.


I like this story a lot! Thanks James!

When I bred Jack Russells I started out with terriers from a lady who bred dogs that did well in the conformation ring and in the earth. My first two terriers got bronze medallions and did pretty well in the show ring, but eventually I got a couple of pretty terriers that weren't particularly keen, and i got so I could hardly stand the site of them, poor things.

I started to realize that with my kids and family obligations that I couldn't wait and dig to a dog in a bad place without neglicting my own babies, that all I could do in good conscience was make the occasional terrier trial.

That's when I started to give my young terriers to friends who could use them and just kept my original three. I had arrived at a point where I could give a flying you know what about prettty, all I cared about was the work. If I couldn't do that I was done.


----------



## Kirstyn Kerbo (Apr 3, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyr1ugzxXM

^Yeah, whoever posted that pretty much summed it up. 

I do not even refer to the AKC showline dogs in the US as GSDs. I went to a dog show once and stopped to chat with the GSD people at their booth...and they were still pushing the "A dog for all jobs" thing and it made me laugh. I had a looong conversation with them and they started getting very pissy. All you have to do to get them mad is bring up hip dysplasia at all. Even just to ask questions about testing for it, etc. as I did. I think someone who was responsibly involved in the breed would not mind discussing such things...
I hate it when the showline types enter their dog in obedience, or have them herding(well, skittering behind) ducks and then loudly proclaim 'SEEEE HE CAN WORK!!!111!!!'. I'm am getting so sick of that. Anyone else been noticing that? [-(


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

For years!!!!!!!!!


----------

