# K9's in the schools.



## David Baker

Well, i guess the anti's and the gun rights folks may be able to meet in the middle in the future. This is already implemented in Ohio. Good for them.
Although i fully support guns in the correct hands inside schools is a good idea, i also really support this idea.


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ates-believe-dogs-will-make.html#.UnrRlyhl9S-


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## David Baker

LOS ANGELES While some say school safety hinges on guns, cameras or alarms in classrooms, Mark Gomer and Kristi Schiller think specially trained dogs should take point in preventing violence in schools.

Gomer's for-profit company has sent a gun- and drug-detecting dog to patrol the halls of an Ohio high school, while Schiller is launching a nonprofit in Houston to give schools the trained canines for free. Their programs are still in their infancy, so questions remain about dogs that can distract, scare or send kids into sneezing fits. But they think they can cultivate their ideas to help schools across the country stay safe.

Gomer's first full-time safety dog is a year-old Dutch shepherd named Atticus, who reported to duty this school year at Oak Hills High School in Green Township in southwest Ohio.

The dog trained at the school before the summer break, said Gomer, co-owner of American Success Dog Training in Bridgetown, Ohio. As part of the company's School Protection Dog program, Atticus learned on the job about marching bands and school bells and the thunk of books hitting a locker.

Gomer, who has trained about 8,000 dogs over 20 years and has three children in the school district, suggested the dog after 20 students and six teachers were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.

Atticus has won over students, parents, teachers and district Superintendent Todd Yohey, who initially worried what people would think of him spending $10,000 on a dog.

Gomer has talked to a lot of parents and faculty, and they are saying it was money well-spent, he said.

Atticus spends his days on a leash with two security guards and goes home with Principal John Stoddard at night. Messages left for Stoddard were not immediately returned.

For her part, Schiller is looking to provide safety dogs to schools free of charge. She hopes her new initiative, K9s4KIDs, does for schools what her K9s4COPs did for police departments. She has placed more than 60 dogs with agencies in three years.

"These canines are extremely social, yet highly qualified warriors that are accustomed to going straight to the source of a threat or shooter and disengaging the suspect armed with the weapon," said Schiller, a Houston mother and philanthropist.

The idea for K9s4KIDs grew out of school shootings and suggestions on applications for police dogs, she said.

"Something that came up was the lack of campus police or sufficient support for the law enforcement agencies that responded," Schiller said.

If a school applies for and is chosen to receive a dog, it will come fully trained and paid for. Buying and training a safety dog costs between $10,000 and $15,000, she said.

Schiller said it would be up to school officials to decide who will handle the dogs, what they will be trained to search for, and if a dog will be assigned to one school or several in a district.

Schools will also have to consider the expense of providing medical care, food, a home and handler for the dog.

As the programs get up and running, questions remain about possible health problems and distractions the dogs can cause.

But Gomer said that fear and allergies are nothing new. He said police departments have been bringing dogs into schools for years, and some children with disabilities use them, too.

"If a child is allergic or extremely fearful, the (safety) dog will steer clear," he said.

A school safety expert said those are concerns parents and schools will have to work out. Ken Trump, president of the Cleveland-based National School Safety and Security Services consulting firm, discussed the issue in general because he was not familiar with either program.

He said the dogs would have to be extremely social to deal with students' initial excitement.

"Kids are going to be all over those dogs," Trump said. "There are concerns to work around, but with the right dogs and right handlers and the right policies and procedures, they should be very beneficial."

He said the dogs encountering a gunman would be a benefit, but the relationships the kids build with the dogs and handlers and the sense of well-being they create will probably be more lasting and life-changing.

The dogs might be a distraction in the beginning, but they will become part of what students expect to see when they go to school, Trump said.

"There is so much these dogs can do, and they're always coming up with new ideas," said Ted Dahlin, a Harris County, Texas, constable's deputy who serves on the K9s4COPs board of directors. "If I were going to pick a school to make trouble, it would be one I knew didn't have a dog."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ogs-will-make.html#.UnpnK5R4Zc5#storylink=cpy


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## rick smith

great idea 
first impression here...haven't really thought this out in detail yet....

sad that it would be worth considering, but that seems to be the case in a lot of places in the states these days so i hope it catches on.
- will take some VERY good dogs and an equally good training program tho, since "accidents" won't be (and shouldn't be) tolerated
- in some "hard core" areas i would be concerned for the dog/handler. punks have a knack for finding a way to mess with the system and cause problems ad the teams could become targets
- dual purpose might be asking too much. detection dogs only would seem to be a better option ... the kids don't need to know if the dog was a single purpose or dual anyway 
- and how do you train for a "moving" hide alert if the kid is packing ?? (lol)


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## catherine hardigan

I think it's a bad idea.

I see a lot of poorly handled police dogs, and others with iffy training. Single purpose detection dogs might be fine, but there are always enough kids in a school who are allergic that I just don't see how it could work. Kids shouldn't have to sit through school sneezing and runny-eyed everyday, and I doubt "steering clear" would be enough.

But hey, I'm also against guns of any kind in a school. Police have enough biases and lapses in judgement as it is, and I see no reason to weaponize public schools.


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## rick smith

psd's DO make mistakes and those mistakes are always high profile in the media ... i'm not against the media coverage, but that doesn't mean we should have less K9 LEOs imo

i don't think a few allergy problems is a big enuff reason ... can't please everyone and no system is perfect, so minority doesn't "rule" in a society. laws are not made for the minority ... and i'm not talking race here.
- and i would rather have a few kids sniffling than a few kids being shot or killed  

i am also against guns in schools, but they ARE there, and i'm not referring to security ... so this looks like a way to help prevent them in a less lethal way than fighting fire with fire

people in the places these programs are aimed at will probably respect a dog as a deterrent more than they will respect armed security and LE ... that has already been demonstrated 

send in the gun sniffing dogs and watch the punk gun packers scatter like the cockroaches they are //lol//

at least if they are gonna pull a weapon out, hopefully it will be aimed at a dog rather than another kid or two which makes it worthwhile it to me 

i would think that as soon as a few schools show a drop in the problem, the program would expand rapidly


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## catherine hardigan

rick smith said:


> psd's DO make mistakes and those mistakes are always high profile in the media ... i'm not against the media coverage, but that doesn't mean we should have less K9 LEOs imo
> 
> i don't think a few allergy problems is a big enuff reason ... can't please everyone and no system is perfect, so minority doesn't "rule" in a society. laws are not made for the minority ... and i'm not talking race here.
> - and i would rather have a few kids sniffling than a few kids being shot or killed
> 
> i am also against guns in schools, but they ARE there, and i'm not referring to security ... so this looks like a way to help prevent them in a less lethal way than fighting fire with fire
> 
> people in the places these programs are aimed at will probably respect a dog as a deterrent more than they will respect armed security and LE ... that has already been demonstrated
> 
> send in the gun sniffing dogs and watch the punk gun packers scatter like the cockroaches they are //lol//
> 
> at least if they are gonna pull a weapon out, hopefully it will be aimed at a dog rather than another kid or two which makes it worthwhile it to me
> 
> i would think that as soon as a few schools show a drop in the problem, the program would expand rapidly



I'm not talking just about k9s, but about cops in general. Cops make mistakes. Cops have their own biases. Cops are not infallible. Adding a dog to the equation just ups the ante... especially when surrounded by a few hundred (or few thousand) teenagers. And again, I've seen a lot of poorly handled/poorly trained police dogs. 

And you are wrong about "minority doesn't rule." Many schools have zero nut policies because one or two students have allergies. You don't think they will have to apply the same sort of policy when several students have dog allergies? Unless police departments start using poodles that issue alone will create problems.

As far as drugs in schools: Prescription pills are a far bigger problem than pot or anything else, but I doubt drug dogs are trained to detect Adderall. And even if they are, Rx's are not illegal.

We will have to agree to disagree about cops with guns in schools.


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## rick smith

i don't understand your allergy point
maybe japan is different from where you live, but in 18 years of running a ballet school that has welcomed many hundreds of young students i have never encountered a student with a dog allergy problem and we always have had dogs around the property ... cat allergies ... different matter 

if a kid did have an allergy to dogs, that still doesn't necessarily mean they would react just because a dog entered their school ... the K9's won't be coming into close close contact with kids unless the kid was carrying a weapon ... if a kid was allergic it doesn't mean they would react just because a dog walked by their locker... a teacher who had dogs at home could also bring allergens into a school and the last i heard there was no restrictions on teachers owning dogs 
...not to mention the other students whose family owned dogs and i would assume there would be a lot of those too.
- i'm not a doc but i have known a lot of people allergic to cat dander that react if i am in close contact with them, so the same should hold true with dog allergies ... any medical profssionals know that for sure ??

sure, it would be nice to be able to ensure a school kid won't be exposed to any allergens, but it's wishful thinking imo ... too many other bugs that are already floating around that kids and techers bring with them

as far as not trusting LE ... that is a totally different problem, and it's a hard job for anyone ... done by humans who have as many problems as other humans. sounds like you are a bit "anti-LE". maybe you have legitimate reasons ... maybe not ... that's not for me to judge, but that's the way your post comes across when i read it 

if a few kids had some sneezing fits but a few firearms were removed from a school, which situation would you rather choose ?
- allergies are usually not life threatening ... gun carrying kids certainly are 

don't know how others feel, but guess we will agree to not agree. 
i think guns should NOT be in schools, and this still seems like a potential alternative that needs consideration rather than be stopped in its tracks - 

do you have a better suggestion to curb the problem ?


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## Catherine Gervin

this may be just a symptom of my misanthropy, but can't those allergic kids take a Claritin or something? i would imagine that both the dog and the handler chosen to work in a school would be considered carefully, and that though dogs don't search for pharmaceuticals, they would be more than adept at spotting the off behavior typically exhibited by people on pills, or street drugs, for that matter . if the kid's got a prescription and is taking meds at school, the school is supposed to be made aware of this anyway, and then that kid would be given consideration, i suppose? also there is always dealing done on school property, and i would guess that the presence of a dog would curtail that behavior rapidly. it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that dogs generate a fear and respect even armed humans given the authority to enforce the law over us do not...my guess is that it would be extremely effective in dealing with teenagers.


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## rick smith

fwiw, i am neither pro or con when it comes to LE

but i am a FIRM believer the main reason why there are bad cops and LE problems is due to the general lack of public respect for their authority, not the police themselves, and that is why their job has become so hard over the last few decades
- more people should go out on shifts with them...after a couple weeks i'm betting they might change their minds
- i LOVE projecting authority, carrying a weapon, looking for bad guys and doing good deeds for good people, but i wouldn't be a cop even if i was paid over a 100k a year.... the good ones get a HUGE amount of respect from me, and there are many thousands of good ones out on the streets on any given day or night

same goes for the parents and kids with problems ... i blame the parents for their emphasis on "parenting" vice teaching their kids at an early age what trust and respect and accountability means ](*,)

off the soapbox //lol//


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## Maureen A Osborn

OK, y'all need to watch this interview with Mark Gomer and some of the "training" sessions and the 2 DS in the video....then comment on what y'all think.....
http://americansuccessdogtraining.com/programs/school-dogs/


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## catherine hardigan

rick smith said:


> fwiw, i am neither pro or con when it comes to LE
> 
> but i am a FIRM believer the main reason why there are bad cops and LE problems is due to the general lack of public respect for their authority, not the police themselves, and that is why their job has become so hard over the last few decades
> - more people should go out on shifts with them...after a couple weeks i'm betting they might change their minds
> - i LOVE projecting authority, carrying a weapon, looking for bad guys and doing good deeds for good people, but i wouldn't be a cop even if i was paid over a 100k a year.... the good ones get a HUGE amount of respect from me, and there are many thousands of good ones out on the streets on any given day or night
> 
> same goes for the parents and kids with problems ... i blame the parents for their emphasis on "parenting" vice teaching their kids at an early age what trust and respect and accountability means ](*,)
> 
> off the soapbox //lol//


Since you live in Japan - a country with some of the toughest gun laws in the world - I am wondering what kind of weapon you carry. Since less than 1% of Japanese citizens own guns, why do you feel the need for that level of protection? And why do you feel that carrying a gun makes others view you as some kind of authority figure?

Based on your posts, your claim to being "neither pro or con when it comes to LE" is about like Fox News claiming to be "fair and balanced."


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## Christopher Smith

Catherine is correct. You are hard pressed to find one week that doesn't go by where cops don't screw up in the schools as it stands. They simply have no place there in my opinion. 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/...r-when-cops-conduct-mock-classroom-drug-raid/

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## jamie lind

Just wondering. How many commenting have kids in school?


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## Christopher Smith

jamie lind said:


> Just wondering. How many commenting have kids in school?


What does it matter? 

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## catherine hardigan

Christopher Smith said:


> Catherine is correct. You are hard pressed to find one week that doesn't go by where cops don't screw up in the schools as it stands. They simply have no place there in my opinion.
> 
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/...r-when-cops-conduct-mock-classroom-drug-raid/
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Not only that, but there have been threads on the board about how kids should not be allowed to pet dogs at police demos. Many officers won't let anybody pet their dogs... even the single purpose ones. Why? Because dogs tend to bite. And yet, all of a sudden and according to the great minds on WDF, it's a great idea to have police dogs in crowded schools filled with hundreds of teenagers. Sweet Jesus people are irresponsible and inconsistent.


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## Maureen A Osborn

http://www.policeone.com/K-9/articles/6552540-Ind-K-9-bites-boy-during-demonstration-at-school/

This whole thing that this guy mark is promoting is going to end up with more of stuff like the above....and what are this guy's credentials????? This is going to be a laywer's dream.


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## Maureen A Osborn

catherine hardigan said:


> Not only that, but there have been threads on the board about how kids should not be allowed to pet dogs at police demos. Many officers won't let anybody pet their dogs... even the single purpose ones. Why? Because dogs tend to bite. And yet, all of a sudden and according to the great minds on WDF, it's a great idea to have police dogs in crowded schools filled with hundreds of teenagers. Sweet Jesus people are irresponsible and inconsistent.


yep totally agree


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## rick smith

Christopher :
i think you have been on this forum long enuff to have read some of my flames about K9 LEO's who lost control of their dogs and other LE reacting ignorantly around loose dogs and shooting them point blank, etc., so i would hope you wouldn't characterize me as a steadfast cop lover ... i hold all LEO's to very high standards and have zero tolerance for their Fk ups

i also never said i think patrol psd's belong anywhere near a school ...unless they need to be, as part of a swat op when the killing had already started

if a detection K9 can't work safely in public; they shouldn't be working. period. and that would apply to a school environment too. schools in the states have this problem ... our schools in japan DON'T and i'm proud of that

if you think detection dogs won't help, step up and suggest some alternative ways that will. metal detectors sure haven't worked, nor have the bleeding heart gun control maniacs

- and if you don't agree that a lot of "bad cop" problems in the states have resulted from the overall lack of respect for ANY authority as well as LEO's, post an intelligent counterpoint.
- i grew up in the states when cops walked beats. why do you think that no longer happens ? because modern cops are lazy ? i don't think so. i think it's because now they are no longer visible deterrents to reduce crime. they are targets if they would walk a beat ](*,)

no easy solutions, but i still think cops are needed and i have NO problem with the public demanding high standards even tho it is often a thankless job that is way underpaid...which is why you (probably) couldn't pay me enuff to be one

i stated why i think it's a good idea to explore and why i thought the "allergy" issue was a minor one. you have said it isn't because cops screw up all the time. that is a piss poor argument imo
- sorry, but to me it read more like a complaint than a counterpoint


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## rick smith

and if catherine or anyone else thought my idea of K9 firearms detection in schools required an unsociable gsd, mal, or ANY unsociable K9 they are naive or ignorant :-(
...last time i was at an airport i saw detection dogs wandering all over the baggage claim area, in the same area as kids ... some of them might even have been allergic to dogs :-(


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## David Winners

For me, it depends on the program. 

If it's an abbreviated program focused on getting teams to pass cert, then I wouldn't want my young kids around those dogs. 

If the program was designed around social dogs that were trained and proofed in the right manner, then I'm all for it. 

Most of the search should be conducted while the kids are in class anyways. I can see having dogs search bags as they enter the school, but I doubt the dogs will be free scanning through the halls while kids are between classes. Dual purpose dogs wouldn't have to be patrolling the halls while kids were out of class. They could be there to react to an active shooter without rubbing shoulders with the kindergartners.

David Winners


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## Maureen A Osborn

Another bad thing is that this guy is putting these supposed "trained" dogs in the hands of totally green handlers....sorry, but this is just an accident waiting to happen and then we are all going to wonder why having dogs like ours becomes illegal or owning one becomes regulated like guns....


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## Thomas Barriano

I"d rather have a Vet with or without a dog protecting schools then a gun free zone sign.


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## Maureen A Osborn

Thomas Barriano said:


> I"d rather have a Vet with or without a dog protecting schools then a gun free zone sign.


Like a criminal with a gun is gonna listen to the gun free zone sign ](*,)


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## Gillian Schuler

rick smith said:


> fwiw, i am neither pro or con when it comes to LE
> 
> but i am a FIRM believer the main reason why there are bad cops and LE problems is due to the general lack of public respect for their authority, not the police themselves, and that is why their job has become so hard over the last few decades
> - more people should go out on shifts with them...after a couple weeks i'm betting they might change their minds
> - i LOVE projecting authority, carrying a weapon, looking for bad guys and doing good deeds for good people, but i wouldn't be a cop even if i was paid over a 100k a year.... the good ones get a HUGE amount of respect from me, and there are many thousands of good ones out on the streets on any given day or night
> 
> same goes for the parents and kids with problems ... i blame the parents for their emphasis on "parenting" vice teaching their kids at an early age what trust and respect and accountability means ](*,)
> 
> off the soapbox //lol//


Fully agree - why should the cops always have to take the responsibility for bad parenting.


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## Christopher Smith

rick smith said:


> Christopher :
> i think you have been on this forum long enuff to have read some of my flames about K9 LEO's who lost control of their dogs and other LE reacting ignorantly around loose dogs and shooting them point blank, etc., so i would hope you wouldn't characterize me as a steadfast cop lover ... i hold all LEO's to very high standards and have zero tolerance for their Fk ups
> 
> i also never said i think patrol psd's belong anywhere near a school ...unless they need to be, as part of a swat op when the killing had already started
> 
> if a detection K9 can't work safely in public; they shouldn't be working. period. and that would apply to a school environment too. schools in the states have this problem ... our schools in japan DON'T and i'm proud of that
> 
> if you think detection dogs won't help, step up and suggest some alternative ways that will. metal detectors sure haven't worked, nor have the bleeding heart gun control maniacs
> 
> - and if you don't agree that a lot of "bad cop" problems in the states have resulted from the overall lack of respect for ANY authority as well as LEO's, post an intelligent counterpoint.
> - i grew up in the states when cops walked beats. why do you think that no longer happens ? because modern cops are lazy ? i don't think so. i think it's because now they are no longer visible deterrents to reduce crime. they are targets if they would walk a beat ](*,)
> 
> no easy solutions, but i still think cops are needed and i have NO problem with the public demanding high standards even tho it is often a thankless job that is way underpaid...which is why you (probably) couldn't pay me enuff to be one
> 
> i stated why i think it's a good idea to explore and why i thought the "allergy" issue was a minor one. you have said it isn't because cops screw up all the time. that is a piss poor argument imo
> - sorry, but to me it read more like a complaint than a counterpoint


First of all the most piss poor argument you can make is to address your post to the wrong person. 

Second, you have yet to define the problem that you believe exist that justify a police presence on school campuses. 

Third, you say that metal detectors have not worked. How do you know? Where are your stats? 

Fourth, If metal detectors have not worked than cops in school have not worked either. Here in California we have had cops in the schools since the 80's.

Fifth, can you please try to use some basic punctuation and grammar rules? I'm not say that you need to write your post like a college essay, but at least you could start your sentences with a capital letter and end them with a period or question mark. And just stop using "..." as a catchall. I think you have a lot to say but reading it is a chore and I often skip your post for that reason.


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## Christopher Smith

And your statement about cops being underpaid is complete bullshit. Where else can a 22 year old with a GED make $50,000+ a year *BASE* salary with excellent medical and pension? 

And before you start telling me how dangerous it is please go to the OSHA site and use real information to back up your claims.

http://www.joinlapd.com/qualifications.html

http://joinlapd.com/salary.html


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## Thomas Barriano

Maureen A Osborn said:


> Like a criminal with a gun is gonna listen to the gun free zone sign ](*,)



That was my exact point !


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## Catherine Gervin

Christopher Smith said:


> What does it matter?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


it matters because you have to know what you are talking about before your opinion has merit, and often that requires a degree of personal risk. it's just that way. personal investment and experience matter when giving advice or instituting policy if ever there's to be a prayer of having it be viable. also: the officer who tells his troops to take that hill and watches them go do it is not the same caliber of person who tells his troops to go take that hill and leads them up it. he may die, but at least he dies with credibility. if he lives, succeed or fail, you can be sure he has learned volumes about the acquisition of ground. iif you don't have children in school, then how can you logically, realistically or legitimately dictate policy for those who do? if it's not your kid potentially getting maimed at a place of education because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time then how can you expect to tell other parents what's unreasonable or potentially effective?
somewhere along those lines comes my shock at your gall for saying police officers are overpaid--being a cop in L.A.? better to be a grenade juggler for a living than plan on making it to healthy retirement age as an LAPD OFFICER. not only are police officers personally targets for all levels of society's filth but even their family members are living at risk, and whatever their takehome is, it is a pittance as compared to what should be given to those among us willing to stand up, be shot, die, even, in order to try and make this country safe and governed by the laws we allegedly put in place to do so.


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## Catherine Gervin

also, my husband--wondering why i'm over at the computer stiffling curse words while our small daughter is watching cartoons in the other room--wants to know if you've ever served anyone other than yourself.
i wonder how much of a comfortable existence can be purchased annually for $ 50,000 in L.A., as it's all relative


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## Christopher Smith

Catherine I have a kid in school that would be affected by this. 

Secondly, I never said that anyone was over paid. Did I? 

Third, you didn't go to the OSHA site and are uninformed. 

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## Christopher Smith

Catherine Gervin said:


> i wonder how much of a comfortable existence can be purchased annually for $ 50,000 in L.A., as it's all relative



It's not 50k. It's 50k plus another 10k to 15k in overtime.


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## Christopher Smith

Christopher Smith said:


> Catherine I have a kid in school that would be affected by this. And I served someone other than myself for over 15
> 
> Secondly, I never said that anyone was over paid. Did I?
> 
> Third, you didn't go to the OSHA site and are uninformed.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App




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## Catherine Gervin

Christopher Smith said:


> And your statement about cops being underpaid is complete bullshit. Where else can a 22 year old with a GED make $50,000+ a year *BASE* salary with excellent medical and pension?
> 
> And before you start telling me how dangerous it is please go to the OSHA site and use real information to back up your claims.
> 
> http://www.joinlapd.com/qualifications.html
> 
> http://joinlapd.com/salary.html


 so the first statement is meant to imply that you consider them adequately paid? wouldn't that sharply depend upon the cost of living in that area?
as far as dangerous goes, what would you say to those who are getting hurt on the job? i am not uninformed, i know a few police officers, i don't need to go trolling on a website for my information in this case, and, of those who go without getting shot--lucky them!--ask them about what that accepted level of risk does to the stress levels in their lives, in their marriages, and with their kids. sure it's part of the job, and sure they don't have to keep doing that job if they don't feel it's worth it, and sure, there are lots of bad cops just like there are lots of bad authors and waiters and doctors, but the general aim is to be one of the good guys and to help people.


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## Catherine Gervin

in Portland, ME it's 30K a year, in South Portland it's 19$ an hour, and overtime is only going to help you out if you can get it...those sweet construction details are very much in demand, and i am told they go either to the officer in the most financial need or to whomever draws the right straw. sure they can do quite well at time and a half, but one would be hard pressed to find someone who needs to work overtime to make their way and doesn't mind giving up those extra hours. it's not just LE fighting to get decently paid for what amounts to a very important job--soldiers and teachers and nurses walk an uphill road too.
i have no doubt that a decade on the force brings with it a fine salary, but the majority of those people REALLY earn that mark by then.
also, since you are offering up a kid to be in school out in the world then i absolutely entertain your point of view on the matter.
thanx


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## jamie lind

Christopher Smith said:


> Catherine is correct. You are hard pressed to find one week that doesn't go by where cops don't screw up in the schools as it stands. They simply have no place there in my opinion.
> 
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/...r-when-cops-conduct-mock-classroom-drug-raid/
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Isn't it great when others know what's best for your children? That's why I think the question matters.


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## Christopher Smith

Catherine Gervin said:


> in Portland, ME it's 30K a year, in South Portland it's 19$ an hour, and overtime is only going to help you out if you can get it...those sweet construction details are very much in demand, and i am told they go either to the officer in the most financial need or to whomever draws the right straw. sure they can do quite well at time and a half, but one would be hard pressed to find someone who needs to work overtime to make their way and doesn't mind giving up those extra hours. it's not just LE fighting to get decently paid for what amounts to a very important job--soldiers and teachers and nurses walk an uphill road too.
> i have no doubt that a decade on the force brings with it a fine salary, but the majority of those people REALLY earn that mark by then.
> also, since you are offering up a kid to be in school out in the world then i absolutely entertain your point of view on the matter.
> thanx


This ain't about Oregon. This is about California. 

And it does depend on where you live. But you can only live so far from where you work. So...

If a cops salary was inadequate then our teachers would be living on the street and eating from trash cans. 

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## Christopher Smith

jamie lind said:


> Isn't it great when others know what's best for your children? That's why I think the question matters.


I get what you are saying but since EVERYONE pays for our public schools I believe that everyone should have a voice in how those schools are run. Also I'm a firm believer that it takes a village and that we are all obligated to do what's best for the kids. 

So even though I disagree with putting dogs and cops in schools I'm glad these people are speaking up and voicing their opinions. 

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## jamie lind

Christopher Smith said:


> I get what you are saying but since EVERYONE pays for our public schools I believe that everyone should have a voice in how those schools are run. Also I'm a firm believer that it takes a village and that we are all obligated to do what's best for the kids.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Two wrongs don't make a right. I think those who choose to have kids should pay for them. I also want the village to raise the villager kids, not mine. That's why I don't use public schools for my kids, but to each their own.


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## Christopher Smith

jamie lind said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right. I think those who choose to have kids should pay for them. I also want the village to raise the villager kids, not mine. That's why I don't use public schools for my kids, but to each their own.


I didn't say anything about raising your kids. I said we are all obligated to do what's best for the kids. Those are two different things. And your kids are part of a village somewhere unless you have them chained up in the attic.

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## jamie lind

Christopher Smith said:


> I didn't say anything about raising your kids. I said we are all obligated to do what's best for the kids. Those are two different things. And your kids are part of a village somewhere unless you have them chained up in the attic.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Haha. Ok.


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