# PSD Handlers/Trainers???



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

As I have said here in the past I really enjoy training and working dogs with the PD's here. I think I am the only "non cop" that does that in our area. They have their own "brotherhood" and have accepted me in. I have noticed that a lot of the guys really don't have an interest in the dogs outside of the "work". There is one guy that is a damn good trainer and has great insight. I try to spend time with him and he is like me. He enjoys the dogs on and off work. Trying to get him to do some sport with me and I think he will. 

My question is for you cop dog guys...... do you enjoy working with the dogs when it's not "work" ?? Do you do the job because of a passion for the dogs or because some higher ranking guy told you one day "Your gonna be in K9"? Or?

Do you do any sport? If so why? Or why not?


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've been a handler, trainer and program manager. I do it because I truly enjoy it. I do nothing with dogs outside the job. Well except for Roger, but he's useless. I enjoy court and have been qualified as an police canine expert in both state and federal court. I've been approached by the defense to assist them in developing question banks. I've refused. I'm careful what I say in forums, believe it or not, because statements will come back and haunt you. Except for 1975 and 1980, I've been continuously employed, working with directly with dogs since 1966. I've handled Sentry, patrol, drug, explosives, track, mine/tunnel and cadaver dogs. I worked on 3 feasibility studies (drug detection, explosives detection and escape/evasion). I've hidden explosives in the White House and was specifically requested, on two occasions, to conduct proficiency evaluations on Secret Service explosives detector dogs. I was the FAA, Explosives Detector Dog Program Manager (the predessor to TSA) for 3 years. The Director of Canine Services for my current State law enforcement department since 1990. While I am almost done with my career, and I don't anticipate doing anything dog related when I retire, it's been a hell of a ride. This isn't a resume, but geez when I started bragging I couldn't stop. I've often posted "in my not so humble opinion", by golly, I think I meant it.

DFrost


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

If you're not working with your PSD or personal dogs while not at work.... or at least thinking about it all the time, you're not a real dog man.


----------



## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

I enjoy it. Both on and off duty. Since I have a PD dog at home, its almost like never being off duty since I take of her. I also own an equipment business and I have customers from all sorts of working dog specialities. Dogs are my hobby so I'm pretty lucky. I also train pets, train detection dogs, and I'm a memberof Schutzhund club where I get to do helper work. All of it helps me be a better handler and the business portion gets my family involved. I've tried to keep an open mind with different training styles and I'm also careful on what I post here but things can be taken out of context. I try to be polite here, not hijack threads, have a little fun,share some knowledge and throw in my 2 cents.

As far as the cop portion goes, I try to shut it off while not at work, especially after 21 years but we notice things about people that most do not. I see someone with some prison ink, or a car that circles a lot with some shady characters in it and my cop mode switches on. Maybe the other handler's you know just want to turn it off. I'm glad my current K9 ride is an unmarked SUV. When I had the black and white in the driveway, all sorts of crazy things happened. People you don't know knock on your door and want you to sign off a ticket or handle the neighborhood issues, etc. 

Just keep a few things in mind. Thousands of people want to be cops, lots of cops want to be K9, and lots of handler's want to be a trainer. There a people in each arena that shouldn't be any of the above. We also have plenty that are really good. We are a tight circle and holy crap there are some HUGE egos. As you can probably tell but some of the posts you have seen on WDF.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Pete Stevens said:


> I enjoy it. Both on and off duty. Since I have a PD dog at home, its almost like never being off duty since I take of her. I also own an equipment business and I have customers from all sorts of working dog specialities. Dogs are my hobby so I'm pretty lucky. I also train pets, train detection dogs, and I'm a memberof Schutzhund club where I get to do helper work. All of it helps me be a better handler and the business portion gets my family involved. I've tried to keep an open mind with different training styles and I'm also careful on what I post here but things can be taken out of context. I try to be polite here, not hijack threads, have a little fun,share some knowledge and throw in my 2 cents.
> 
> As far as the cop portion goes, I try to shut it off while not at work, especially after 21 years but we notice things about people that most do not. I see someone with some prison ink, or a car that circles a lot with some shady characters in it and my cop mode switches on. Maybe the other handler's you know just want to turn it off. I'm glad my current K9 ride is an unmarked SUV. When I had the black and white in the driveway, all sorts of crazy things happened. People you don't know knock on your door and want you to sign off a ticket or handle the neighborhood issues, etc.
> 
> Just keep a few things in mind. Thousands of people want to be cops, lots of cops want to be K9, and lots of handler's want to be a trainer. There a people in each arena that shouldn't be any of the above. We also have plenty that are really good. We are a tight circle and holy crap there are some HUGE egos. As you can probably tell but some of the posts you have seen on WDF.


Pete your an asset here to us non street guys as are all of you guys that do it for a living. In my opinion anyway. You know what they say about opinion's LOL. You guys have valuable insight that isn't available generally speaking. The HUGE ego part is true and seems to run across dogs in general. Hell I have never been good enough at training a dog to have an ego about it LOL. But I try none the less.


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Here's the thing about huge egos in the PSD world...it'll get you, and others killed!

Good trainers and handlers all have passion. Heated discussions are the norm. But the fact is, if you don't have an open mind and are willing to listen, compromise, or even change some things because you think you are the best....well, That's dangerous. Personally, I know what and how I like to train. Experience guides me in what works. That said, I'm the first to try something new that is sound and correct training if it works for a specific dog better than what I already do. Too many people's lives and safety depend on the PSD trainer being a true professional instead of a one man show. I've seen those shows and they have ended poorly.


----------



## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

I work dogs before work, I work dogs at work and I work dogs after work.

I take pleasure vacations with my family and will plan for a day of working dogs. 

I pay for my training that my work won't or can't pay for.

No dog and I would be working for someone else. Wont take a promotion because I like working the dog.

Policework is my excuse to train for a living.


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

will fernandez said:


> I work dogs before work, I work dogs at work and I work dogs after work.
> 
> I take pleasure vacations with my family and will plan for a day of working dogs.
> 
> ...


 Now that's a true dog man. Then again, I knew that the first time I ever met you.


----------



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Will sounds very familar . I just was horseshit at balancing Police and K9 work with family .

I've been a cop 20 years . My first month on the street off FTO I was ther when a veteran K9 Handler I looked up to was killed looking for the killer of another Officer I grew up with , played hockey with and went through Law Enforcement classes with . He was only on 6 months more then me but had already won our departments highest award for heroism and was making great arrests on the street . Before I got K9 I had been really good at finding rolling stolens and got in many car and footchases with suspects and got to see first hand how good our K9 unit was and wanted to be a part of it .

I got my application for K9 in on the last day , went through the interview process and started my K9 career in 97 ' . The day I was told I got the job I called and thanked my girlfriend for her help . That's when I found out my son was on the way . From the time I got K9 I was all in . I did everything I could with the dog and in the unit . Patrol/Narc. detector , selected out of 21 dogs to be 1 of 4 SWAT dogs , Regional treasurer for our Police K9 assoc. , qualified numerous times as one of 5 K9s on our national team(national champ in 2000 and 2 and 3rd place many times) , USPCA K9 judge , supply guy at of the unit . It was a running joke that I slept in my squad car on my time off because I was always showing up at calls off duty . After about 5 years I was asked to be a trainer and became a USPCA certified Patrol and Detector Dog trainer .

During that time I had 3 kids ( son , 2 daughters ) that I never saw . I would call while being away on the road and they never even knew I was gone because I was away more then home . I was either working , out training with the handlers or SWAT team , on call outs , attending seminars , instructing at seminars or away competing . I had 2 kids before I ever found the time to get married . Lost my first K9 Mic while at a 2003 National competition in Florida . The handlers all paid for to fly my wife down in time to see him PTS . 

I was being prepared to take over as Head Trainer down the road when my marriage fell apart . Stepped down as trainer to spend more time with the family like I should have . Now I'm a single Dad raising 3 kids 50% of the time and have been back work as a Patrol Officer for a month now after 14 years as a K9 guy . My second week back on patrol I got into a chase with a stolen . It sucked having to give up the #1 spot to our K9 (I still want to be that guy) but I have to admit it was fun to watch him work . The next day I had some gangmembers run from me after threatening someone with a gun . With the help of another ex K9 guy we caught the suspects but I got to backup one of our K9s as he did an article search and found a submachine one of the suspects had thrown . I guess I will always try to be a part of the K9 unit in someway if only as a backup officer . 

I miss it and have some good memories but there is alot I would have changed if I got to do it over . Just a cautionary tale . It's an addictive job , the trick will always be balancing work with family . Family should be #1 .


----------



## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

Amen Jim. Family first. If you can get the family involved and they actually enjoy doing it, then you have scored. I got them involved on the dog side, not the cop side. My two youngest just made some sweet moola after we sold a dog I trained for detection work. They just delivered the ball for me on the training wall but now they want to know when I'm going to train my next dog. I made them part of the training and they saw the rewards for their work. My oldest has been in the bite suit and is pretty good. I've dragged them to so many K9 trials that I saw them starting to hate it. But now they are older and want to make some extra money. I hope they learn enough that they can be trainers in the pet world and always have something to fall back on should they need extra income. Do I want them being cops? Nope, too dangerous and those are my babies.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

will fernandez said:


> I work dogs before work, I work dogs at work and I work dogs after work.
> 
> I take pleasure vacations with my family and will plan for a day of working dogs.
> 
> ...


Tip of my much respect hat for a number of reasons.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> If you're not working with your PSD or personal dogs while not at work.... or at least thinking about it all the time, you're not a real dog man.


Howard I have never considered myself a "trainer" because thats not what I do for a living. I do however consider myself a dog man. I think 30 odd years of living with and learning from qualifies me for that. 

I kinda figure being a K9 street cop would be like when I played music for a living. When I was doing it for fun I loved it....when I HAD to do it as a job the fun left out real fast.


----------



## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

I became a police officer to be a k9 handler.Total 30 years on the job10 years as a handler with 2 different dogs.Had to take a break from k9 after my divorce as one condition of being a handler in our force was to have a single dwelling home. So lost the job but came back to the unit to finish off right!
Now retired, this is my second puppy with aims at French Ring.
Mike


----------



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I've know lots of PSD handlers that gave up alot outside of work for the love of the job . Lots of different Handler personalities . Those that get addicted and want to do everything including training , then there are those really good street cops that are hunters and see K9 as being a better way to hunt down the badguys they are into training and putting alot of extra time into there own dogs in order to do a good job but could care less about taking it any further . Then there are those that take it as just a job . They are the 9-5 handlers . They do an ok job but will only do it on the clock and have a life outside of work . You also have the frustrating ones with alot of potential but never put in the extra time to bring it out . Then there are just the bad handlers , never should have been there in the first place and mainly wanted it for the dog and title of K9 handler . 

There's alot more to PSD work then just training a dog . You have to be a good cop too if you want to do the job right on the street . IME , previous dog training experiance can be a benefit for some and for others a hinderance . I know plenty of handlers with previous dog training experiance that didn't do near as well as the handler who came on with just owning dogs throughout their life . Previous dog training experiance in other areas can sometimes close their minds to new and different types of training and it holds them back . As a trainer I found the raw inexperianced(in k9 training) handler much easier to work with and get to excell .


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Howard Knauf said:


> Here's the thing about huge egos in the PSD world...it'll get you, and others killed!
> 
> Good trainers and handlers all have passion. Heated discussions are the norm. But the fact is, if you don't have an open mind and are willing to listen, compromise, or even change some things because you think you are the best....well, That's dangerous. Personally, I know what and how I like to train. Experience guides me in what works. That said, I'm the first to try something new that is sound and correct training if it works for a specific dog better than what I already do. Too many people's lives and safety depend on the PSD trainer being a true professional instead of a one man show. I've seen those shows and they have ended poorly.


 KEEP PREACHING H-
I know several K-9 handlers and most WILL NOT work o/s the job. Like a lawyer or teacher giving information after hours...just ain't happening!!! Those who do, do so b/c of the deep love of their calling!


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Brian Anderson said:


> I kinda figure being a K9 street cop would be like when I played music for a living. When I was doing it for fun I loved it....when I HAD to do it as a job the fun left out real fast.


 If you really love it then it's always fun whether it's a job and/or a hobby. It's never really "Work".


----------



## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

I’ve been a police officer since 1995. I started decoying for our department’s dogs in 2000. In 2003 I got a spot in the Unit. Since then I have obtained my NAPWDA Trainers Certification and am currently working towards my Master Trainer. I have trained a number of Patrol/Narc dogs. Each week I work with anywhere from 8-40 different teams.

I just got promoted to Sergeant… so my time as a handler will end when my dog retires in a few years… I will however be supervising our K9 program and training our dogs so I’m still in the game.

As far as training outside of work time… with court, details, late arrests… I barely get 6 hours a sleep a day so I try to do as much work as I can while on the shift.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Mike Di Rago said:


> I became a police officer to be a k9 handler.Total 30 years on the job10 years as a handler with 2 different dogs.Had to take a break from k9 after my divorce as one condition of being a handler in our force was to have a single dwelling home. So lost the job but came back to the unit to finish off right!
> Now retired, this is my second puppy with aims at French Ring.
> Mike


Thats awesome Mike. How do you compare French Ring with working street dogs?


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> If you really love it then it's always fun whether it's a job and/or a hobby. It's never really "Work".


Howard that is a great outlook. I have been told that from other guys too. As long as thats your way of seeing it you will enjoy doing it I would think.


----------



## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

Brian,
First off let me say that it is humbling experience,a bit like a plane pilot learning to fly a helicopter, you know how to fly but it is a different way!
As you imagine it is not fair to compare the two. In French Ring I find that the rules are important to know for the handler as we can lose many points despite the dogs performance! What I appreciate in Ring is that when you see the dogs performing at higher levels (Ring3) is the stamina required of the dog (the total Ring 3 performance can take 45 minutes) and the control. The handlers that perform at these levels have my respect as it represents alot of hard work.
Of course, being a sport many,(NOT ALL) dogs can perform well but I wouldn't say they would be good outside the sport as they are point dogs (they learn the routine and repeat it) but there are some dogs that would probably do very well.
The fact that there is no olfactory work also is too bad but overall I would say it is great to stay in the working dog environment.
So to answer the original post,I continue working dogs because it is part of who I am and it will be part of my life for as long as I will be able to do it.
Mike


----------



## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Mike Di Rago said:


> Brian,
> First off let me say that it is humbling experience,a bit like a plane pilot learning to fly a helicopter, you know how to fly but it is a different way!
> As you imagine it is not fair to compare the two. In French Ring I find that the rules are important to know for the handler as we can lose many points despite the dogs performance! What I appreciate in Ring is that when you see the dogs performing at higher levels (Ring3) is the stamina required of the dog (the total Ring 3 performance can take 45 minutes) and the control. The handlers that perform at these levels have my respect as it represents alot of hard work.
> Of course, being a sport many,(NOT ALL) dogs can perform well but I wouldn't say they would be good outside the sport as they are point dogs (they learn the routine and repeat it) but there are some dogs that would probably do very well.
> ...


 
When you mention being sport dogs and not doing so well outside the field, are you saying this because of training or what you observe from the dog's genetics? 



Thank you for your time

Tiago


----------



## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

Tiago,
I would say there are many very good dogs,but because of the needs of their handlers the training is specific to the sport. That being said there are also dogs that perform in the sport very well that I wouldn't want to have for police work because the training is masking the flaws.Very good trainers are bringing up dogs to high levels but if only the true potential of the dog was tested these dogs wouldn't go as far. But this is a sport and it is ok I think as long as these dogs (the ones with the evident flaws) are not bred. But this is a whole different subject than your original question and I don't want to start a big argument, and this is only my opinion from what I have seen and from what I know. 
Regardless I really enjoy the sport and take for what it is,a sport where I can compete with my dog as a team and have a good time doing it.Which is why I tend to stay away from the politics of the sport.Many people forget that the first and most important reason we should do this is to have fun with our dogs!
Mike


----------



## Vince Jones (Dec 6, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> If you're not working with your PSD or personal dogs while not at work.... or at least thinking about it all the time, you're not a real dog man.


I used to be this way back in the early 80's. Then the kids came along and everything changed. The dogs were my passion but my kids are my life. I enjoyed being able to train the dogs at work, and do actual work with them in a way that I enjoyed more than I ever could from working a dog on a competition field. but I feel you need a balance with a personal life(IMHO) Court took me away from the family enough as it was. 
My free time was ocaassionaly spent with civilains who were into workinhg dogs, doing some training and i enjoyed that, but once my kids were old enough for fishing and little league and such.....no contest for me.


----------

