# USCA to exit WUSV?



## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

In a harshly worded ultimatum SV president Wolfgang Henke has demanded that USCA submit to opening up memership privilages 
to WDA membership, creating a crisis: 

http://www.angelplace.net/usca/Truth.htm 

More information: 

http://www.angelplace.net/usca/ 

Jim Engel 
Phone (815) 568-5963 Before 8:00 PM Chicago time 
[email protected] 
http://www.angelplace.net/dog/


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

"Everyone concerned with a serious American working dog culture should become involved, be heard. We are at a crossroads, and there is an opportunity, perhaps a final opportunity, to take American working dog affairs into American hands once and for all. All we have to lose is subservience to overbearing German bureaucrats."

Jim, I think perhaps you should take into account that when say "everyone concerned with a serious American working dog culture should become involved." if I am correct, "everyone concerned" is directed at people not involved with UScA. Members of other breed clubs. 


We (the other breed clubs) have had to swallow or own dose of subservience from UScA itself. I have watched a UScA dominated AWDF board literally try to shame and discredit a member of my breed club, simply because they could. The placed blame on his shoulders for acts they intiated in order to place a trial in their favor. I watched on at a championship as they performed a draw, and then after everyone had their numbers they re-wrote the schedule of flights. kind of like picking the winning lottery numbers, then selling the tickets. They offered zero help to the trial in any form of actual labor. They were sure happy to take the Mic whenever it was given to them. They handed over massive bills to the host club which included hotel rooms that were already paid for. Drinks for friends...I have seen increasing fees be placed on the "other clubs" to enter their trials....in almost every form they can think of. They requested the rest of the breed clubs not get on board with being able to record titles on AKC registrations over their fued with WDA. Imposed fees to use their judges.

Well, lemme tell you Jim. It's hard for me being a member of another breed club sit an listen to about USCA being forced to "cower and submit" and feel very much sympathy at all. Let alone muster any motivation to join the fight.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

A lot of what you say is true.

If you want to be specific rather than general, it would be good to get it out in the open.

A whole lot of this was Al Govednik and Roetemeyer.

Both lost by big margins in the last USCA elections, and Govednik has been reprimanded.

I was founding AWDF secetary, and in the early years as president of the Bouvier club
and AWDF secretary there was cooperation & good relationships.

A lot of this began to deteriorate with the conformation shows and SV breed stuff.

What America needs is a predominant all breed training organization, which could
happen if USCA splits.

There is a whole lot bad that can be said about USCA, and I have been part of saying
it, but they are the bulk of the clubs, people and money.

Some background:
http://www.angelplace.net/Book/Ch17.pdf


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

I know it is a bad sign when you start talking to yourself, and you answer back.

Point to consider:
The Constitution of the United States was written to protect the institution of slavery.

We pushed out the Indians, the treatment of the Cherokee nation was especially egregious.

But in the end we still stack up fairly well, although things in Washington let a little doubt creep in.

There has been enormous corruption and evil in USCA, just as in the United States, but somehow we have managed to something in America to be proud of if not perfect.

If you know a way to build an American working dog culture outside of USCA and AWDF, sign me up, but until then I think we should work for change. As a point of reference, I have not been a USCA member for several years, belong to another AWDF club. So not unsympathetic to problems of other breeds.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

James Downey said:


> "Everyone concerned with a serious American working dog culture should become involved, be heard. We are at a crossroads, and there is an opportunity, perhaps a final opportunity, to take American working dog affairs into American hands once and for all. All we have to lose is subservience to overbearing German bureaucrats."
> 
> Jim, I think perhaps you should take into account that when say "everyone concerned with a serious American working dog culture should become involved." if I am correct, "everyone concerned" is directed at people not involved with UScA. Members of other breed clubs.
> 
> ...


Hat offs to you! Finally someone who gets it and isn't drinking the Koolaide any longer.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

James Downey said:


> "Everyone concerned with a serious American working dog culture should become involved, be heard. We are at a crossroads, and there is an opportunity, perhaps a final opportunity, to take American working dog affairs into American hands once and for all. All we have to lose is subservience to overbearing German bureaucrats."
> 
> Jim, I think perhaps you should take into account that when say "everyone concerned with a serious American working dog culture should become involved." if I am correct, "everyone concerned" is directed at people not involved with UScA. Members of other breed clubs.
> 
> ...


+1

UScA has a long history of delusions of grandeur and reacting poorly to rejection. They don't get much sympathy or support from me either. They made their own bed and I have no intention of getting in it with them now.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Personally I'm sticking with DVG as my sport organization.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

The UScA club I was training with has merged with a smaller DVG club and we are all switching to DVG. Enough of this GSD political BS for us too.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> The UScA club I was training with has merged with a smaller DVG club and we are all switching to DVG. Enough of this GSD political BS for us too.


To be honest, it's a big part of why my love for the breed has seriously waned. I'm with WDA and AWMA both for cheaper than one UScA membership is. And my WDA club hold at least two trials a year. It's just crazy. The GSD games are just really out of control.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

As to saving the breed I think it will always be up to individual breeders to breed "correct" dogs. Any time a club/group starts to control that it will become political. 
There will also always be conflict as to exactly what "correct" is. Some will favor what they view as the proverbial "well Balanced" dog. Some will view as correct the dog that is the dog that will eat anyone outside the family. 
There is a place for all as long as it's structurally/functionally sound....but there ya go again! :grin: :wink:
The club, regardless of the alphabet behind it is entirely up to what the members make it.
Forcing one organization to accept the other will work only at the surface without a lot of input from the individual clubs.


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## Jane Jean (Sep 18, 2009)

I went from the WDA to the UScA a year or two before the JA and the $40 bump in membership fee. Only because I had to with the club I moved over to. I'm now recently renewed w/ the UScA and am sick of the politics...no rulebook has been published because the interpretation is still in tweeking mode. How can judges can be consistent in trial when they are not in sync with each other because they are still trying to understand the rules themselves?
The magazine is very heavy on the SL's lately so I can't really say that the UScA is dominated by working line GSD's(or they are trying to be balanced). 
It's all a cluster**** and I would be happiest if I could train/trial in a KNPV club! Wish there would be a push for that, because the dog that earns titles is real world ready, not sport ready.


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## patricia powers (Nov 14, 2010)

i wonder what the sv would think if somebody gave them a similar ultimatim? if they had to recognise and allow membership to the rsv2000 handlers and breeders? i get disgusted with all this "jealous girlfriend" behavior. anyone should be able to belong to any organization they choose as long at it fits the breed or sport they are involved with.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

patricia powers said:


> i wonder what the sv would think if somebody gave them a similar ultimatim? if they had to recognise and allow membership to the rsv2000 handlers and breeders? i get disgusted with all this "jealous girlfriend" behavior. anyone should be able to belong to any organization they choose as long at it fits the breed or sport they are involved with.


This sounds nice, but does not match up with reality:
http://www.angelplace.net/usca/USCA&WDA.htm

By your logic, every church should welcome KKK members.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Jane,

Supposedly there is a schedule that the magazine follows, per voted on rule of what the cover and content are supposed to be for each issue.


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## Jane Jean (Sep 18, 2009)

Sue DiCero said:


> Jane,
> 
> Supposedly there is a schedule that the magazine follows, per voted on rule of what the cover and content are supposed to be for each issue.


I know, I saw that in the current issue. 
I do appreciate the new board trying to clean things up, and they are doing a great job with communication. Seems way more transparent than in the past.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

patricia powers said:


> i wonder what the sv would think if somebody gave them a similar ultimatim? if they had to recognise and allow membership to the rsv2000 handlers and breeders?


That has already happened. The VDH gave the SV the ultimatum and they did the same thing that UScA is going to do; they complied. Under the VDH rules clubs must allow other club's members into club level trials and they can't charge them extra fees. UScA is the only club in the world, that I have ever heard of, that charges fees to non club members.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Jane Jean said:


> I know, I saw that in the current issue.
> I do appreciate the new board trying to clean things up, and they are doing a great job with communication. Seems way more transparent than in the past.


I agree completely! Too bad they are being haunted by the sins of the old boards before them.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

All large long term organizations have a dark side.
The Catholic Church, the United States of America.

The SV is just sorta 30 years into a particularly dark patch.

The point is USCA is there, is the reality. I no longer belong,
but you can't pretend it is not there.

All problems have a solution. Perhaps trial entries will
be priced at $300. Who is to know if there are special rebates?


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