# Puppy's Nonstop Barking



## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

My mali pup who is almost 4 months old is a nonstop barker. No trouble with those Dutch lines and barking...

He stays in a kennel, but is let out for exercise, tracking, enviornmental exposure stuff daily. I alternate wtih OB and bitework a few times a week.

For the first month or so that we had him, he stayed in the house. The only time he would be quiet in his crate would be at night. Same thing is now happening outside in the kennel. He barks at anything and everything.

I feel sorry for my older GSD who is in a kennel beside him. He will lay down in the kennel, and the pup will be right beside of him on the other side barking his little head away. I haven't put up dividers in my kennels yet, but will be soon. 

The pup barks on the tie out, in the crate in the back of the truck, anywhere that he is contained.

We've been ignoring it basically, except for the occasional "Shut the Hell UP" when it gets too much.

I know this is probably a silly question, but he barks until he literally can't anymore and when there's no sound coming out he's still trying to bark. Should I worry about him hurting his throat or anything? I've never had a dog bark nonstop like this, much less a puppy, and have no idea about this stuff. If it was an adult dog, it would have had a bark collar a long time ago. But 4 months seems like way too young to put one on, and I can deal with ignoring him.

I can ignore the little brat, but I was just wondering about him hurting himself...


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

LOL, I've put on a NB Collar on a a few pups as young as 12 weeks, not for a long time, but to let him understand what it is....worked wonders......don't put it in on when it gets out of control or he will be strictly conditioned to it and understand when its on or off and when he can and cannot bark. I do this becasue I do not want them to exhaust themselves all day and when its time to work, they are gassed. It has not effected them at all with bite work and when I WANT them to bark. Or when I frustrate for work purposes, he instantly barks, however controlled the no nonsense barking....give it a try, just use a good collar and understand the level you put it on. I usually use an Innotek collar on pups, the first level is vibrate and every 3 seconds of barking it rises in level of E, so the dog learns that the more barking the more correction....Hope this helps


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

The exhaustion was another thing that worried me that I forgot about. It got very hot here very quickly, and the dogs haven't had time to adjust yet.

The pup does expend all of his energy on barking. We keep fresh water in their kennels, and the pup drinks as much as my GSD who is a gulper. I'll walk by the kennel and see him barking, panting like hell, and foam coming out of his mouth.

I think the little shit would give himself a heat stroke with all the barking he's doing when the temps hit the high 90s and 100s.

I was curious whether or not it'd make him not want to bark at all. Thanks for the input Jody.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jody and Megan..........Where in the world did you guys get these crazy little monster barkers???????
I have never heard of such a thing. LOL8)


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> Jody and Megan..........Where in the world did you guys get these crazy little monster barkers???????
> I have never heard of such a thing. LOL8)


Mike I have no clue where one of these little demons came from. You should really look into getting a few for yourself 8) :twisted: .

What are your thoughts on it? Same as Jody's?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Megan McCallister said:


> The exhaustion was another thing that worried me that I forgot about. It got very hot here very quickly, and the dogs haven't had time to adjust yet.
> 
> The pup does expend all of his energy on barking. We keep fresh water in their kennels, and the pup drinks as much as my GSD who is a gulper. I'll walk by the kennel and see him barking, panting like hell, and foam coming out of his mouth.
> 
> ...


Megan, you can pu a bark collar on him if you need to, it wont hurt anything. But i doubt if he will hurt himself barking. he may loose his voice and get hoarse, then the barking will sound more like a sqweeky toy for a while. But even that will come back and then his bark will be even better.....or worse, depending on how you look at it. 
Lets try to channel that hyper activity into something useful. Does he still bark like an idiot on the back tie when you are working him with a rag or jerry can?
I am looking forward to seeing him again, i have his brother back here now, at 4 months old his owner could no longer handle him, that is what happens when you sell a Dutch Mali to a show line GSD SchH trainer.](*,)


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

He sounds like a frog when he barks now because he's lost his voice so many times. I'm anxious to see what his real bark sounds like one of these days. Or maybe not. 

I might order a bark collar from you when I get an e collar. I'll see how things go, I was just scared the poor guy would lose his voice forever or something!   

He's improved a 100% seen you saw him last. We've been putting him on the back tie when we work Boss too, which drives him nuts.

I can definitely see how someone couldn't handle his brother. He keeps me on my toes, and has got pushy a time or two.

I wouldn't trade him for anything though!


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

IMHO, I would introduce the bark collar. Better to teach him now than when he is older and Boss has had it with him. 

The other thing you can do is put barriers in his kennel so he cannot see Boss and Jake. 

Mals are a wonderful thing when it comes to driving things nuts with their barking. 
I don't allow continuous barking here. At feeding time and when I am getting other dogs out is okay, the rest of the time, they know better. 

And of course, I have a couple kennels away from the others. 

Doubt he will hurt himself, but furious barking like that can turn into fence fighting as well as a nuerotic behavior that will be hard to fix.


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks for your input too Carol.

How often would the collar be recommended? Just during the day? Put it on when we feed him in the morning, take it off if we are working the dogs, and off at night?

For the bark collar does it matter if he's conditioned to it or not? Meaning does it matter if he knows what the collar is for? I don't think I explained that thought real well...

I plan on putting barriers up for Boss' sanity, but that won't stop the barking. Ike likes to bark just to hear himself I've decided.

He knows the speak command, so I won't have to "teach" him to bark again. Doubtful that I would anyway...

Thanks for the suggestions guys.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

**** a collar, tell him to shut the **** up and then beat his furry ass. You have already made this a big problem. Nice job.

Dogs bark to relieve tension. Maybe that will help you. In other words you have a dog that needs to work more than you are working him right now.

Go to the vet, get the other two nightmares euthanized and work the dog.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Megan McCallister said:


> How often would the collar be recommended? Just during the day? Put it on when we feed him in the morning, take it off if we are working the dogs, and off at night?
> 
> For the bark collar does it matter if he's conditioned to it or not? Meaning does it matter if he knows what the collar is for? I don't think I explained that thought real well...


I put Jesea's bark collar on in the morning and take it off at night. For some reason she does not bark at night. If she is not next to or cannot see another dog, I do not put it on. 

Any stimulus with her will get her going. 

I had her wear the collar for about a week, and then turned it on a medium setting. Now she wears it and it is never on. She just knows better. 

Funny thing is, she knows the difference between the e-collar and the Dogtra bark collar....she will bark with the e-collar. 

And, more work and exercise is always a good thing. LOL


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

Ike doesn't bark at night either for some reason.

Jeff... He's still a young pup, and I've not ruined him completely yet. The other two (especially the GSD) aren't complete nightmares.

I'm sorry that I'm new, and don't have someone right beside of me to hold my hand the entire time! But I am trying to learn and better myself so that has to count for something.

He does get plenty of exercise and worked daily. I don't want to work him so much he gets burnt out, or exercise him too much before his growth plates are done growing. Now that it's warm enough, I'm going to try taking him swimming at least every other day.

And get a bark collar  .


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

What about actually training the pup not to bark? Or do you think it's better not to teach self-control to a baby working puppy?

I taught Cyko to shut up and sit when he wanted to be let out, by shaping closer and closer approximations, positive reinforcement, starting from 8 weeks old. He learned to paw at the door a few times, then sit and stare at me. Then eventually would hold the sit until I snapped a leash on him and said OK...


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

When he was in the house I tried the teaching him not to bark thing with PR. It didn't work out too well...

I hope you weren't being sarcastic, but I'd love to teach him self control.

As long as he's out and working he's fine. Unless he's waiting to be worked in the crate, on the tie out, whatever. It's ok if he barks then.

I'll try working on it again in the meantime.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

No I wasn't being sarcastic, I'm asking because everyone else is suggesting a bark collar (well, all except Jeff :lol

Cyko was my first mal, and crated a lot due to a knee problem as a baby, and was a real PITA barking. I worked on having him follow me everywhere at first, so then all that drive and energy to get to me was frustrated by the crate, which turned into barking. It was pretty bad at the beginning, and my co-workers were starting to compare recipes for puppy stew, but he did get it eventually. The key was me being with him most of the time, and instant feedback, starting from the very moment he paused to take a breath.

It wasn't any different than teaching my parrots not to scream for attention. Get to them before they start, or instantly when they stop. No reward for noise, no attention whatsoever. And I am stubborn...


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

<sigh> 

some are just better at training not to bark I guess.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> **** a collar, tell him to shut the **** up and then beat his furry ass. You have already made this a big problem. Nice job.
> 
> Dogs bark to relieve tension. Maybe that will help you. In other words you have a dog that needs to work more than you are working him right now.
> 
> Go to the vet, get the other two nightmares euthanized and work the dog.


Damn Jeff, you went straight for the throat with this post man.
Actually I must tell you that I have seen Megan GSD (Boss) he is actually not too bad for an American X Czech cross. Her and Scott have done a good job with him. His grips are full, and he has pretty good nerves, he can do sport work for sure, and we could get that dog titled if she wanted to put the time into him, but he is already 4 so I doubt she will. She has a Bloodhound that I have not seen but I bellieve the dogs trails very well from what I have been told.
Now this little 4 month old Mali came from me, He is an Endor son. I saw him here a few weeks back and he was pretty flat, so I told her to starve him from work for a while, let him watch and let him build some frustration. So I guess I am the one to blame for him not getting worked enough at the moment.
It sounds like he is now a little more eager to play the game.
I think Megan was trying too hard to make him great, and was actually letting him have too much of whatever he wanted. For this puppy, a little witholding of his toys is what he needed.


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

Thank you very much for the kind words Mike, it means a lot!

Even though Boss is older, I'd love to put the time into him to title him.

Just because Ike hasn't been getting _worked_ doesn't mean he isn't getting exercised. He gets plenty to tire him out. Mike your nothing to blame for but REALLY helping me out and taking the time to work with us. I just wish I was closer!

Hopefully soon I can bring them back up for a bit of a follow up.


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

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Here's a short clip of him this evening barking at Boss right before I told him to hush.

This is what it's like all day, if it's not at Boss, it's at something else. He must have took a nap or something today cause he actually sounded like a dog barking when I got home.

I've pretty much decided to go with the NB collar, I definitely don't want to start barrier aggression issues, and this will probably be the easiest way from me (trainer challenged) to go about it.

Thanks for all the suggestions.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

You can always try a treadmill......keeps him occupied while you are not working him and conditions him as well, or a hamster wheel, its amazing what these things will do....


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jody Butler said:


> You can always try a treadmill......keeps him occupied while you are not working him and conditions him as well, or a hamster wheel, its amazing what these things will do....


Ditto. :lol: I don't know how I would survive without one.

I train my dogs to get on the treadmill freely (no leash or collar) and to walk or run on it without restraint. If I'm on the treadmill, one will hop up and walk or run with me. Some of the dogs will go hop on it to "ask" me to turn it on. :lol:

But I like it as a contraindicative behavior to barking. If the dog is barking while running, then speed it up a little! Watch your pup's cues to be sure you are not over-doing the exercise. ( A good reason to teach a pup to walk/run unrestrained ) and check the duration, speed and incline with the breeder and/or your vet to see if you have reasonable and safe expectations.

I like to first teach the "not-barking" and then pair it with a correction (no-bark collar) if required. "Zen" is a nice cue for "not-barking." The Zen is teaching the dog to lie down and touch its chin to the floor. Reward comes only after the dog relaxes. Reward with drive play.

Zen comes in handy later. My doggie will be spazzing out, but will drop and freeze on the cue "Zen." It's a little kinder that "doggamit!" and going all Jeff O. on the dog. :twisted:


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

I just turn it on and they rush towards it!! It set on slight incline very slow and keeps them occupied, I don't tether them, the can easily jump on and off, and they seem to want to stay on as long as its going! Hasn't effected anything in the work except they are getting stronger and more stamina!!


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

My dogs get time on the treadmill too. It is a wonderful tool. Not to mention training time daily, walks daily and running with the four wheeler every other day. 

The only barker I have is Jesea, and it is a stimulus issue....if she is in one of the "isolation" kennels....no problem unless a cat wanders by. 

I choose the bark collar as I do not want her fence fighting (which she does) nor do I want to hear it from hubby about the barking F****ING dog....LOL


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