# How often do you train as a group



## Nikki M Williams (Jul 17, 2009)

Hello,
Im new to SAR and currently training in HRD ( I just started in April ) . My questions are how often does your SAR K9 team get together as a group and train? How often would you meet and train with your newbies or how often should the newbies be meeting and training with the group? 

There are three of us on the team , minus our trainer, and we are all new and have not meet to train since late September( the entire group) . They keep preaching that we should be training on our own when the group dosen't meet but I feel that with us being so new , what bad habits are we teaching our dogs and what mistakes are we making that no one is pointing out. The three of us have meet in the last couple of weeks and trained on our own to get the dogs out. Just looking for some feed back, am I expecting to much? I also train in Mondio and our club meets almost every weekend so this is what I'm comparing it to.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

We try to have official team trainings 4 times a month - 2 all day weekend and 2 weeknights. We are pretty spread out so local clusters usually also train together at least once a week, sometimes more -- 

I would expect newbies to come to as much team training as they can. We have not let new folks do HR work.

That is for the live find dogs. Since you are talking HRD........

I try to do something at least 3-4 days a week with my HRD dog and try to get unknown problems set for me by someone else at least once a week. But I have nationally certified him 3 years running and had other non HRD SAR experience before getting him.

Have you asked the leadership for more direct help? Maybe assignments and objectives between team trainings? Maybe some one on one?


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## Nikki M Williams (Jul 17, 2009)

Nancy,
thanks for your input. The problem is getting the trainer to train with us. He is off alot doing seminars . He has been doing HRD for many years. He is the only one who has experience with training of the dogs. He also is part of the leadership. I will keep bugging them and share your training schedule.

I do HRD with her because this is what they wanted us to train in. Training her to do Live Finds was never offered. Plus I also leaned more to HRD also .

I thought about trying to find another group that did more training.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Well, I probably would not do the "compare" thing. Every team is different. 

Typically I try to go by minimum expectations of 4 hours a week training for detection work but it is usually more. That is training time, not necessarily nose time.

I would try, however, to pin him down to working with you on objectives and goals between sessions.


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## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

We train officially 2 times per month. We often meet up several other times in 2's and 3's, especially with the new people. 

I have a live find dog and a year old HR puppy. He is my first HR dog and I find that it is much more technical to train than live find. I think it is very important for an experienced trainer to be able to see the dog work (and how the handler behaves) to prevent bad habits from forming.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

If you're new to detection training, it would be especially helpful to have a mentor from the team to guide you. Any chance one of the (successful) members would be willing to meet with you on a more regular basis?


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## Nikki M Williams (Jul 17, 2009)

Jennifer Michelson said:


> We train officially 2 times per month. We often meet up several other times in 2's and 3's, especially with the new people.
> 
> I have a live find dog and a year old HR puppy. He is my first HR dog and I find that it is much more technical to train than live find. I think it is very important for an experienced trainer to be able to see the dog work (and how the handler behaves) to prevent bad habits from forming.


Thanks Jennifer, that was my main concern that if I trained on my own with no supervision that I would create alot of bad habits. Especially when Im not exactly sure what behaviors to be looking for yet.




Konnie Hein said:


> If you're new to detection training, it would be especially helpful to have a mentor from the team to guide you. Any chance one of the (successful) members would be willing to meet with you on a more regular basis?


Konnie, unfortunately the only experienced person is our trainer.Its a small team consisting of our trainer and us three new K9 handlers. The K9s are only a small part of the entire SAR team. I think my best bet at this time is to pin down our trainer and express my concerns and if I make no progress look for another group in my area.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I would say it does not bode well if this is a new team and the "trainer" is not investing a lot of time in it. The start up of a team is a LOT of work and relationship buidling.

Who are they, what calls do they get, what is their relationship with LE. Since you are training in HR, are you trained in BBP and hazmat and crime scene preservation? Do you have liability insurance, etc. etc.


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## Nikki M Williams (Jul 17, 2009)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I would say it does not bode well if this is a new team and the "trainer" is not investing a lot of time in it. The start up of a team is a LOT of work and relationship buidling.
> 
> Who are they, what calls do they get, what is their relationship with LE. Since you are training in HR, are you trained in BBP and hazmat and crime scene preservation? Do you have liability insurance, etc. etc.


 
The Ground SAR group has been around for awhile. I have almost all my basic training in for that part of it. I have also had a class on Crime Scene preservation. You first sentence pretty much answered what I was thinking the entire time. That this is not going the way it should be. As I said , I do more training with my Mondio club, which is for sport and fun , then I do for HRD which is very serious work. I think I may have to find a different group if things don't change and I want to continue. 

PM you on your other questions.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Nikki,
Sorry I got into this late. I've been doing only HRD now for 13 years or so. I started out as a typical SAR dog handler where the current theme at the time was jack-of-all-trades. My dog quickly convinced me to specialize.
If you are all new at this then you definitely need an experienced HRD handler to work with you at least once a week (if not more). I personally train my dogs 3-5 times a week with blinds set up when I get with the local civilian team. I work as a death investigator for my state as well, so I'm on-call every other weekend.
The HRD-only dog teams that train with me locally get with me as often as possible until I think they have the skills and knowledge to do it on their own. Unfortunately, there ae a myriad of ways to screw up your dog with HRD versus live-find. With any scent dog training, timing and consistency on your part are the most crucial. When I work with students, I'm watching the handler as much as the dog to see what needs improvement.
I'm on my fourth dog now and my training regimen has solidified where I produce the same type of dog each time. I do spend a lot of time selecting the puppy to start with such that I know I have a puppy that loves doing HRs and has the right temperments to work with me.
PM me and I'll send you a link of a list that I documented the training of the third dog. As with anyone showing you how to do it, only use what works for you. There are no experts in HRD....none. There are some that would like to sell one down an expensive road, but the best at this are still craftspersons at best. Science has just not caught up with the dog's nose yet, so HRD is still as much an art as a craft.

Jim Delbridge
Oklahoma


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