# Stapling you dog



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

My greyhound just got a few more staples today. The Greyhound and the Shepherd played a bit too hard today and the greyhound wound up with a few small holes and one small tear in its skin. The tear was about ¾ of an inch. I was going to give crazy glue a try but my wife was home and would not let me experiment. As much as the Greyhound likes running around I had to tone it down a bit. I don’t take him as many places or as often as I used to due to his thin skin. My question is how have your experiences been with crazy glue or vetbond type products and what size gash would use them on before supporting with staples? Anyone have a favorite skin stapler? I have been thinking of getting a crash course in stapling up my dog. No matter how carful, this dog is going to get cut up again. 
What a better place to look for k9 staplers http://www.jsenthunting.com.au/discount-pet-supplies.php 

http://www.cabelas.com/p-0016113616784a.shtml


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

http://www.shopmedvet.com/category/143


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Just a couple comments...people get really fixated on suturing or closing a wound, but if a dog's mouth (or cat's mouth for that matter) caused the laceration or if it is at all contaminated (dirt, rusty barbed wire, nails, etc), it is actually best not to do any kind of suturing unless you do major, major clean up and the dog's put on antibiotics. The solution to pollution is dilution. Cleaning out the wound with an appropriate solution (like 0.05% chlorhexidine), bandaging it, and keeping it clean is better than getting a raging Pasteurella or other nasty gram negative anaerobe bacteria (AKA: the gross, smelly disgusting kind) from trapping it underneath after making the skin align. 

Also keep in mind that suturing or stapling is not particularly good at stopping bleeding and if you staple/suture and there's still bleeding underneath, it's going to keep on bleeding. Ideally, you also want the three layers of the skin and underlying tissue closed and any muscle that could be torn as well. Not to mention a dog may not appreciate your stapling/suturing efforts without local anesthetic and sedation...ouch! No need for two to go to the hospital!

If you'd like, I can ask our head board certified soft tissue surgeon who is also board certified in emergency and critical care what he'd recommend for greyhounds and their thin skin (my dad's Weimaraner is kind of the same way, so I'm kind of curious).


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

All the time but once it was just skin, the one time the muscle was damaged it was obvious. His skin is like paper it literally just slices open nice and clean one or two inches long and a half inch wide. The front of his front legs are prone to gashes. I usually do nothing but clean them out, then they take forever to heal and the skin that fills it in is even more delicate. Next time I think I am gona shave it, clean the hell out of it and try vetbond or super glue. If I did close it I would put him on a cycle of antibiotics. As far as blood there has been none in the past. One time he came running up to me and a square foot of skin was flapping in the wind off is side put him in the truck drove to the vets and not a drop of blood. This one was a big one but no muscle damage. Another time rear passenger door of my truck was open and he decided to jump in, the door was not open all the way and his thigh caught the bottom corner of the open door, he had some muscle damage this time, but still very, very little blood. He had to get put under for this fix. 
Most of the time my vet just staples him up without any local. This is a dog that screams in pain if he steps on an acorn, but doesn’t really care about a 2 or 3 inch gash getting stapled. 
Most dogs get cuts or scraps and bleed a bit, greyhounds skin just opens up like a cartoon. If it is a small puncture id rather just keep it open but some of his past gashes really should have been closed. I would not have taken him to the vet for what he had today that was my wife’s idea. The vet glued 3 punctures and gave him two staples. He would have been fine with just cleaning it out for a few days. I would have been like to have seen what happened if I glued the one he stapled. If I bought the dog to him he probably would not have done anything but clean it. He probably stapled and glued things to keep my wife happy. 
Thank you for the offer but don’t bother the vet surgeon guy on my behalf, we all know he will think it’s not something to do at home we will just get some pre-rehearsed yada yada yada bull answer. I was really looking for answers from someone with real experience, like those cool boar hunters. There so skilled they fix their dogs with duck tape. 
Seriously though most of these gashes are really something that can easily be done at home, especially the ones I don’t even take him to the vet for.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

One of our other surgeons does field trials with his Drahthaars and would likely have some suggestions, but yes, please remind me where those boar hunters went to medical school. I'm sure they know better. :roll:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've stapled and seen my share of terriers get stapled on the tail gate of a truck. One hunting partner was a veterinarian and the other was a pathologist. 
I guess If the vet wasn't successful the pathologist could tell us why. :wink:


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

We (my work) have a couple staple kits from the doctor that oversee's our patrol program. It is not special for dogs I don't beleive. I can't remember the size of the staples at present.

We use them to close wounds caused by metal ski edges contacting dog's leg. Uncomplicated full thickness of the skin wounds, but no underlaying tendon damage.

Not worth doing anything to a wound under a certain size IMHO. (under 1.5 inches lets say, and depending on location). I just keep clean and dry, and bandage for work and let it heal on it's own. It takes a long time, but does heal. I have never stapled my own dog (knock on wood). I have had him brought in for stitches. They did not hold the wound closed and in the end it just had to heal on its own. (they pulled through the very next day, and the dog had a reaction to the drugs they used to put him under). 

Anything complicated or dirty dog goes to vet. 

I have had no luck with glue (applied by vet) the couple times I wanted to try it. It was in locations that had a lot of movement though, so did not hold.

Here is a picture of a dog getting stapled in the field, clean cut, not complicated, no major bleeding, just to keep the skin from gaping open... dog finished the day in the alpine and the course with no issues.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I didn’t come up with it myself several people mostly hunters of some kind told me to just do it myself. A few of them were MDs, there thin skin dogs can get torn up in briar bird hunting. Getting cut by skis aint happening to my dog but it sounds like it would make the exact same type of cut I am speaking of. Jen you must be one of those people who know what the extra buttons on the camera are for, your pictures are always good. I would think the sun and snow glare would make you have to do something with the settings or something? I can choose modes on my camera but that’s about it, they don’t seem to help much. 
Maren don’t kid yourself you can learn a lot from a seasoned person in the field. What are you saying someone who bore hunts couldn’t have gone to med school? I don’t get it?


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

http://dogsportgear.com/K9_First_aid_wound_care_kit.htm

on my third one works great


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

How about this, Bob...I'll trust a dog to not bite me doing a stapling or suturing without local anesthesia and possibly sedation about as much as I'll trust the average Joe or Jane not to sue me when their own dog chomps them in the face in pain. In other words, yeah right! [-( Short cuts get licenses revoked and doctors sued for malpractice and liability. No thanks...I wouldn't mind being the attending for trials and practices/training times for whatever club I train with when I'm done with school, but no short cuts. [-X And it's not like lidocaine costs a lot either...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> ... don’t kid yourself you can learn a lot from a seasoned person in the field. What are you saying someone who bore hunts couldn’t have gone to med school?


Or maybe "a boar hunter is a good source of info on this if s/he did go to medical school"?

You seriously disagree with this?
_ ... people get really fixated on suturing or closing a wound, but if a dog's mouth (or cat's mouth for that matter) caused the laceration or if it is at all contaminated (dirt, rusty barbed wire, nails, etc), it is actually best not to do any kind of suturing unless you do major, major clean up and the dog's put on antibiotics. 
_
I'm not even in present-day vet school, but I know from olden days as an E.R. tech that this is just common sense, and widely accepted as such.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I really hope this doesn't become a Maren / vet bashing thread. I think we all know that Maren has the interest and welfare of the animals in mind here.

She doesn't want stupid untrained people hurting their dogs and promoting infections and so on.

Are people going to do stuff on their own anyways? Of course. Hopefully they are informed and think about the risk/benefit relationship. Is it wrong for her to try and convince the masses to visit a vet, think about sterility issues, and not cause undue pain...seems fair to me. I am sure she sees some botched jobs and bad crap.

We are all allowed different points of view here. We don't always have to bash someone elses....be they vet or boar hunter.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I really hope this doesn't become a Maren / vet bashing thread. I think we all know that Maren has the interest and welfare of the animals in mind here. ... Are people going to do stuff on their own anyways? Of course. Hopefully they are informed and think about the risk/benefit relationship. Is it wrong for her to try and convince the masses to visit a vet, think about sterility issues, and not cause undue pain...seems fair to me.


Seems fair to me too. 

Thank you.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

You seriously disagree with this?
_... people get really fixated on suturing or closing a wound, but if a dog's mouth (or cat's mouth for that matter) caused the laceration or if it is at all contaminated (dirt, rusty barbed wire, nails, etc), it is actually best not to do any kind of suturing unless you do major, major clean up and the dog's put on antibiotics. _

Never said I disagree with it, you got to clean it and give antibiotics. It they are small punctures it makes since to keep them open but if they are nice gashes does giving a few staples make the wound heel faster and better? The cuts on my greyhound are way different than the cuts on my Dutch shepherd, and a million times more common. Ill post a picture of the two staples tomorrow


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I have the greatest respect for Maren and what she's accomplishing. My comment was definately not a shot at vets or what they do. I just commented on what I've done and seen done with working terriers. 
Maren knows me enough to know I wouldn't bash her or her advice. 
Just wanted to clear that a bit! :wink:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> I have the greatest respect for Maren and what she's accomplishing. My comment was definately not a shot at vets or what they do. I just commented on what I've done and seen done with working terriers.
> Maren knows me enough to know I wouldn't bash her or her advice.
> Just wanted to clear that a bit! :wink:


It works with all dogs staple kits are in many hunting trucks from what I have seen.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Greg Leavitt said:


> http://dogsportgear.com/K9_First_aid_wound_care_kit.htm
> 
> on my third one works great


What do you mean “on my third one”?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> What do you mean “on my third one”?


Third dog maybe??
They never make it after Greg staples em shut! :-o :wink:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> How about this, Bob...I'll trust a dog to not bite me doing a stapling or suturing without local anesthesia and possibly sedation about as much as I'll trust the average Joe or Jane not to sue me when their own dog chomps them in the face in pain. In other words, yeah right! [-( Short cuts get licenses revoked and doctors sued for malpractice and liability. No thanks...I wouldn't mind being the attending for trials and practices/training times for whatever club I train with when I'm done with school, but no short cuts. [-X And it's not like lidocaine costs a lot either...


 
“Short cuts get licenses revoked and doctors sued for malpractice and liability” 
I am jealous at how funny this statement is. 
“And it's not like lidocaine costs a lot either” I think giving the lidocaine would hurt my dog more that the two staples.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> “Short cuts get licenses revoked and doctors sued for malpractice and liability”
> I am jealous at how funny this statement is.
> “And it's not like lidocaine costs a lot either” I think giving the lidocaine would hurt my dog more that the two staples.


Be nice now!
Besides, I've never seen a terrier have any more reaction to getting stiched or stapled other then fighting to get off the truck an back in the ground. Crazy little bassids!!!
Old Yeller got sewed up with a hair from the mule's (Jumper) tail and he made it jest fine and dandy!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Third dog maybe??
> They never make it after Greg staples em shut! :-o :wink:


 
Got it ...


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Be nice now!
> Besides, I've never seen a terrier have any more reaction to getting stiched or stapled other then fighting to get off the truck an back in the ground. Crazy little bassids!!!
> Old Yeller got sewed up with a hair from the mule's (Jumper) tail and he made it jest fine and dandy!


That was nice… she was funny. 
It does hurt my dog more to get a local than two staples


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> That was nice… she was funny.
> It does hurt my dog more to get a local than two staples



I beleive that. I don't think two staples is too big a deal. Clean wound, proper care, someone that knows how to use it and so on....


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> What do you mean “on my third one”?



I can't speak for those ones, but the ones we use are disposible. They have a set amount of staples, they can't be re-loaded. A sterility thing. They are intended for one time use. The staple removers we have are also a one time use thing.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> ... Old Yeller got sewed up with a hair from the mule's (Jumper) tail and he made it jest fine and dandy!


We don't always have mule-tail hairs handy, though.

I guess ... stock up when they're on sale ....




:lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> We don't always have mule-tail hairs handy, though.
> 
> I guess ... stock up when they're on sale ....
> 
> ...



Make sure to get clean ones!:grin:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Now you guys are taking it to the other extreme, possibly beyond bore hunters 
After looking he got stapled in two locations, total of 5 staples. I tried up loading hes other scares but ran out of room. Poor dog I’m scared to take him any place now. I might just cover him with grey gorilla tape 
Maybe I will get a few staple guns and practice on the retarded 18 year olds. They gave me a price to put them in a room of tear gas with no mask on for bite work. It could be fun, but I don’t think my house pet really needs to keep up on that training. Maybe we should mace them and not even send in the dog? :lol:


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> How about this, Bob...I'll trust a dog to not bite me doing a stapling or suturing without local anesthesia and possibly sedation about as much as I'll trust the average Joe or Jane not to sue me when their own dog chomps them in the face in pain. In other words, yeah right! [-( Short cuts get licenses revoked and doctors sued for malpractice and liability. No thanks...I wouldn't mind being the attending for trials and practices/training times for whatever club I train with when I'm done with school, but no short cuts. [-X And it's not like lidocaine costs a lot either...


 It really depends on what breed your working on most Am Bulldogs and Pitbulls are pretty safe bets though. I wouldn't try it on any of the other breeds ya just might get nailed.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

My dogs have yet to chomp me in pain - in the face or otherwise. I haven't tried staples but I have sutured them. Inka was the only one who even needed a muzzle, the others relax and let me do whatever. Trust is important...


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