# Wusv 2014



## Gillian Schuler

Looking good so far for USA

Debra Zappia *B: 96*

Sigrid Riess Mundry *B: 96*

Wallace Payne *C: 95*

Competition is ever present!

Dirk Edker (Germany) *Bolle Ja Na Ka B: 98*

Helmut Huber (Germany) and Robby de Jong (NL)* 97 C*

Lance Collins* C: 94*


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## Steve Burger

According to the chat next to the live stream (I don't speak GErman) Lance 97 in obedience, Robbie Dejong 93.


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## Gillian Schuler

Steve Burger said:


> According to the chat next to the live stream (I don't speak GErman) Lance 97 in obedience, Robbie Dejong 93.


Just checked,: 

http://www.wusv2014.com/

Lance Collins 1 pt ahead of Robby de Jong. Thumbs up for both of them.


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## Bob Scott

Thanks for the info Gillian!


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## Gillian Schuler

Now it's getting "spannend"!!

<table style="width:393.0pt;mso-cellspacing: 1.5pt" border="0" height="72" width="524" cellpadding="0"> <tbody><tr title="" id="chien_140"> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none">
</td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> Edler Dirk​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> Bolle Ja Na Ka​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> 95​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> 98​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> 97​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> 290​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> EXC​ </td> </tr> <tr title="" id="chien_57"> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none">
</td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> Robby de Jong​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> lenn vom Haus Valkenplatz​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> 99​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> 93​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> <table style="width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing: 1.5pt" border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="0"> <tbody><tr title="" id="chien_57"> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"> 97​ </td> </tr> </tbody></table>​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> 289​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> EXC​ </td> <td style="border:dashed black .5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt; border-image: none"> 
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
but Dirk Leemans so far and Helmut Huber 196 and both now "only" have to do "B".

Debra Zappia 194 has to do "A" and Sigrid Reiss-Mundry 192 has "C" coming up

And of course Ronny van den Bergh 193 has also protection coming up
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## Gillian Schuler

Ronny van den Bergh with 290 in 2nd place, Robby de Jong 3rd but still waiting for Helmut Huber with Hank Weinbergblick and Dirk Leemans with Kjerro van Blutsenhof + the 2 US Girls!!


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## Gillian Schuler

3 x 290

1) Dirk Leemans 98 - 94 - 98

2) Dirk Edler 95 - 98 - 97

3) Ronny van den Berghe 96 - 97 - 97

For those who do not trial in IPO

Dirk Leemans comes before Dirk Edler because of the better protection

Dirk Edler before Ronny because protection equal so better obedience is trump.

I'm still waiting to see how Helmut Huber scores with his Hank Weinbergblick.


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## Gillian Schuler

Helmut Huber has done it again!!

Helmut Huber 292
Dirk Leemans 290
Dirk Edler 290
Ronny van den Berghe 290
Robby de Jong 289
Manuel Girardin 287

All Exc.


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## Dave Martin

Bullshit results from a bullshit trial.

I'm sorry to say that because I know everyone you listed probably worked just as hard as anyone else to reach the podium, but if a trial or organization is down right corrupt any results coming out of it are trash.

I truly hope the affected competitor, and subsequently all of us handlers who aspire to reach the same level one day, is given a detailed explanation of why a particular score was given yesterday. Otherwise, this event ruined the whole concept of world competition for me and I know I am not alone.

This needs to be resolved as quickly as possible and if any foul play took place, the person or people responsible need to be banned immediately. I respect all those that competed a great deal and want to acknowledge that they are each probably innocent of any wrongdoing, but it's a damn shame we may never know what the podium may have looked like if the judging was fair and consistent this year.


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## Mark Sheplak

Dave Martin said:


> Bullshit results from a bullshit trial.
> 
> I'm sorry to say that because I know everyone you listed probably worked just as hard as anyone else to reach the podium, but if a trial or organization is down right corrupt any results coming out of it are trash.
> 
> I truly hope the affected competitor, and subsequently all of us handlers who aspire to reach the same level one day, is given a detailed explanation of why a particular score was given yesterday. Otherwise, this event ruined the whole concept of world competition for me and I know I am not alone.
> 
> This needs to be resolved as quickly as possible and if any foul play took place, the person or people responsible need to be banned immediately. I respect all those that competed a great deal and want to acknowledge that they are each probably innocent of any wrongdoing, but it's a damn shame we may never know what the podium may have looked like if the judging was fair and consistent this year.


Those are some pretty strong accusations. Did you attend the trial and personally witness anything suspect or are you just firing off based on internet rumors?


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## Dave Martin

Mark Sheplak said:


> Those are some pretty strong accusations. Did you attend the trial and personally witness anything suspect or are you just firing off based on internet rumors?


Very strong accusations, but I have no desire to convict anyone without a fair trial and that is what I am calling for.

I did not attend the trial. The competitor and I have a mutual friend who was in France with her all week, including at her track that morning. The group watching, which included our team captain and another notable official, all had this team at a high SG at a minimum. Had there have been other things the tracking judge saw that warranted additional deductions, fine, but noone can tell me what could possible have occurred to warrant a 70.

Have you heard about the critique? I'll keep my mouth shut on the specifics but, if not, that is something you should look into.


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## Mark Sheplak

Dave Martin said:


> Very strong accusations, but I have no desire to convict anyone without a fair trial and that is what I am calling for.
> 
> I did not attend the trial. The competitor and I have a mutual friend who was in France with her all week, including at her track that morning. The group watching, which included our team captain and another notable official, all had this team at a high SG at a minimum. Had there have been other things the tracking judge saw that warranted additional deductions, fine, but noone can tell me what could possible have occurred to warrant a 70.
> 
> Have you heard about the critique? I'll keep my mouth shut on the specifics but, if not, that is something you should look into.


Fair enough. I look forward to seeing the video and associated critique. I have not seen either...can't find a video that isn't marked private. If the competitor felt like they were screwed, they could always submit the video and critique to the WUSV officials. Then again, she is highly unlikely to get anywhere and may be viewed as a poor sport. Subjective judging is an unfortunate aspect of IPO.


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## Thomas Barriano

From the 1st article to the end no critique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idF5Yu48Vq0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL_eSZtjk8k&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop


NO WAY that was a 70 at least an SG IMO
Huber and Hank probably would have won (and deserved to 3peat) but America won the team Championship NOT Germany


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## Gillian Schuler

The video only shows the dog indicating one article and doesn't show the whole track so it is impossible to judge.

The best way would have been for the competitor to ask the judge to explain why so many points had been taken, there and then on the field. 

One competitor I know personally only gained 80 points in tracking at the same event and I was surprised as she is a very good dog handler. Apparently the dog tracked well but missed two articles.


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## brad robert

the other "rumour" flying around is that the german team were allowed to practice in the stadium


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## Thomas Barriano

Gillian Schuler said:


> The video only shows the dog indicating one article and doesn't show the whole track so it is impossible to judge.
> 
> The best way would have been for the competitor to ask the judge to explain why so many points had been taken, there and then on the field.
> 
> One competitor I know personally only gained 80 points in tracking at the same event and I was surprised as she is a very good dog handler. Apparently the dog tracked well but missed two articles.



The first part of the track was erased by accident. Eros hit all three articles and beyond a head check or two and a slight problem on a corner was perfect. SG at a minimum. It was a obvious message from the SV "screw you America, we want Huber and Hank to 3 peat (which he would have done with a fair tracking score) and the German team to win" The tracking judge was Swiss Erwin Patzen I wonder what the SV promised him to betray his oath as a Judge ? The SV is corrupt and arrogant and has been for years. IMO of course


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## Mark Sheplak

Thomas Barriano said:


> The first part of the track was erased by accident. Eros hit all three articles and beyond a head check or two and a slight problem on a corner was perfect. SG at a minimum. It was a obvious message from the SV "screw you America, we want Huber and Hank to 3 peat (which he would have done with a fair tracking score) and the German team to win" The tracking judge was Swiss Erwin Patzen I wonder what the SV promised him to betray his oath as a Judge ? The SV is corrupt and arrogant and has been for years. IMO of course


This video only shows Eros indicating on the final article. Did he miss the 2nd article or was that not included? 

Even if he missed the first article as well, that is only 13 points off, so I don't see how you get down to 70 with my untrained eye. What was said in the critique? The scoring is 80 performance / 20 articles. They have to tell her how ended up at 70.

RSV 2000 über alles


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## Thomas Barriano

Mark Sheplak said:


> This video only shows Eros indicating on the final article. Did he miss the 2nd article or was that not included?
> 
> Even if he missed the first article as well, that is only 13 points off, so I don't see how you get down to 70 with my untrained eye. What was said in the critique? The scoring is 80 performance / 20 articles. They have to tell her how ended up at 70.
> 
> RSV 2000 über alles


The 1st video starts with the 1st article and ends with the second. The 2nd video starts at the second article and ends with the 3rd. The critique was (according to one source not sure if it's accurate) "70" and a smirk :-(

I agree about RSV 2000 Past time for UScA to kick the corrupt SV to the curb.


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## Gillian Schuler

Thomas

We have always communicated honestly and amicably on here.

Now I have to tell you. There is no way I will believe that Erwin Patzen (who is world champion in tracking - is Schutzdienst helper in the police force Zürich, gives numerous competent courses in tracking. Has owned various dogs as a member of the police force) could be led to do someting corrupt. It's just not on, he is a very respected member of our dog sports.

Even in local trials and national trials, the judge gives a commentary of how the dog tracked, not only for the audience watching but also for the participant. He often delivers valuable advice as to how the participant could improve the Training.

There are also many members on lthe German forum who applauded Debbie Zappia's work in B and C.

As for Germany trying to "screw" America. They don't have to. America is is doing a good job itself at the moment.

This was a terrific event and Germany deserved to win.


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## Thomas Barriano

Gillian,

I look at the video of the track and I look at the score. Is is what it is and it's not a 70 track or even close to it. It's just like the German team getting 55 minutes of stadium practice (and pre trial access to the field) and everyone else getting 5. The SV is corrupt and wanted the German team to win and made sure that happened.


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## Gillian Schuler

Thomas Barriano said:


> Gillian,
> 
> I look at the video of the track and I look at the score. Is is what it is and it's not a 70 track or even close to it. It's just like the German team getting 55 minutes of stadium practice (and pre trial access to the field) and everyone else getting 5. The SV is corrupt and wanted the German team to win and made sure that happened.


Thomas, 

First of all you are basing your findings on a poor video which unfortunately was erased by accident in the first half.

I didn't want to mention it before because I have no proof but someone said the dog was at times unsure and cast his head around. WUSV Worlds is judged very differntly from local trials.

To say that the SV is corrupt and wanted the German Team to win is ridiculous. They would have won on points anyway or can you show me, arithmetically, how they would have lost??

I am not a friend of the SV.

Show me the judge's report. Debbie Zappia must have received a verbal report of her work.

Instead of ranting, why didn't / doesn't Wallace Payne have a peaceful sit down to discover what is what????
I'm all for the fair sport and have no sympathy with people spouting "hearsays", comments on videos that are not conclusive, etc.


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## Dave Martin

Gillian,
There is video of the entire track (two separate videos) except the start up to the first article. The dog looked to indicate the last two articles very nicely, and my friend who was there at her track said he also indicated the first article without a problem. Every person was there, and is experienced with judging, had her at a high SG at a minimum. The only thing they could see was a couple slight head checks and slight issue (not circling) at one corner.

Could the judge have seen a bit more? Absolutely - no one is arguing that. 

I don't know why a few seem to be doing this but I am not blaming "the Germans" for a thing. I'm sure the German competitors train every bit as hard as everyone else and with all their resources, probably deserved to be ranked in the top three teams for sure.

Having said that, you can't eliminate the possibility for corruption because you know the tracking judge well. Who does he report to? Who was he reporting to for the WUSV competition?

Again, straight from people who were there, this judge provided a lengthy detailed critique to all competitors, and after this competitors track, noted "handler help on the articles", said 70 points, smirked, and walked off.

I am not some irate, belligerent idiot running around with a conspiracy theory, these are the facts of that morning. If you have seen dogs score 80 or below at world events, please replay those tracks in your head and watch the videos available of this dog. We all know what a bad tracking day looks like and this was not one of them for this team.


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## Dave Martin

Gillian Schuler said:


> Thomas,
> 
> First of all you are basing your findings on a poor video which unfortunately was erased by accident in the first half.
> 
> I didn't want to mention it before because I have no proof but someone said the dog was at times unsure and cast his head around. WUSV Worlds is judged very differntly from local trials.
> 
> To say that the SV is corrupt and wanted the German Team to win is ridiculous. They would have won on points anyway or can you show me, arithmetically, how they would have lost??
> 
> I am not a friend of the SV.
> 
> Show me the judge's report. Debbie Zappia must have received a verbal report of her work.
> 
> Instead of ranting, why didn't / doesn't Wallace Payne have a peaceful sit down to discover what is what????
> I'm all for the fair sport and have no sympathy with people spouting "hearsays", comments on videos that are not conclusive, etc.


No such thing happened and the judge made no mention of the dog turning his head around. He cited "handler help" and handler help alone to this competitor as to where her deductions were coming from, then said 70 points and moved on.

I've watched this woman compete with off-breeds, Rottweilers and Dobermans to name two, and V in tracking without an ounce of handler help at all. Regardless, we could all accept a bad tracking day without making a single accusation about anyone. This was not a bad tracking day and "handler help" is very difficult for us who have followed this person to believe - especially when no further explanation is offered. 

An 89 or 90 track (I forget which off-hand) or better would have given USA the first place team. In other words, USA lost first place by 19 points, and this team seemingly had a 94+ point track until they were given a 70!


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## Gillian Schuler

Dave

I appreciate your comments.

One thing I do not wish to happen is that this will cause a ruction on WDF.

I do not know Erwin Patzen well but he is such a well-respected, competent judge and sport handler, not forgetting his police career. I cannot and will not accept that he was forced to corruption. There was no need. 

This idea of corruption comes from the USA only!!

If anyone can judge a dog's tracking competently, Erwin Patzan can. As far as a "smirk", how did you see this? Who saw this??

The German sports colleagues have never issued any adverse comments about USA dog handlers. I have to say that this is not so on this forum.

All we need is a word true commentary of Debra Zappia's tracking. The judge must give this and must have done so.

I do hope this will not affect our otherwise good relationship.


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## Dave Martin

Gillian Schuler said:


> Dave
> 
> I appreciate your comments.
> 
> One thing I do not wish to happen is that this will cause a ruction on WDF.
> 
> I do not know Erwin Patzen well but he is such a well-respected, competent judge and sport handler, not forgetting his police career. I cannot and will not accept that he was forced to corruption. There was no need.
> 
> This idea of corruption comes from the USA only!!
> 
> If anyone can judge a dog's tracking competently, Erwin Patzan can. As far as a "smirk", how did you see this? Who saw this??
> 
> The German sports colleagues have never issued any adverse comments about USA dog handlers. I have to say that this is not so on this forum.
> 
> All we need is a word true commentary of Debra Zappia's tracking. The judge must give this and must have done so.
> 
> I do hope this will not affect our otherwise good relationship.


 Not at all, Gillian. As I said, I do not place any corruption that may or may not have taken place on any group of competitors, much less on an entire nation. We can both agree that anyone who would so callously accuse an entire group of people of misconduct, without any proof, is an idiot. If any misconduct did take place, I want to believe it was only a select few who were responsible for it.

My friend and the group who was present for this critique cited the "smirk", but that in and of itself is no indication of guilt and I don't care to even think about that anymore when the track/score speaks for itself.

We have seen 2/3s of the track and I very much believe my friend that the first 1/3 was the same picture, if not smoother. That is not a 70 point track no matter what nitpicking the judge could of done. If that was a 70 point track, I should have received an 8 on my dog's last track.

Just like you saying you cannot and will not believe that this well-respected judge was forced into corruption, I cannot and will not believe that this handler, who I have personally watched on numerous occasions, somehow helped her dog indicate articles when I know her dogs do not need any help with tracking.


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## Gillian Schuler

I guess we are stalemate for the time being.

Dave, if you had only seen the live track.

Debbie lived through it - Erwin Patzen judged it.

We haven't had any news from either. 

What does this indicate.

Has Debbie gone into hiding? *She must have had a report on her tracking from Erwin.*


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## Dave Martin

It sounds like you're not accepting what the judge's critique was, which is great, because it would seem it is completely unacceptable to you as well.

He told her she provided "handler help to (her) dog at the articles"


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## Gillian Schuler

I dud read on one forum that Debbie tightend the lead before each article which doesn't make sene to me.

What a shame to an otherwise great event.

I will not pass judgement until I have finally seen the judgement in written form from Erwin Patzen.


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## Thomas Barriano

Gillian Schuler said:


> Thomas,
> 
> First of all you are basing your findings on a poor video which unfortunately was erased by accident in the first half.
> 
> 
> > I thought I posted part 1 and 2 Here is part I from the first article to the 2nd article http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8YAk_og18Y
> 
> Here is part 2 again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL_eSZtjk8k
> 
> >The only thing missing is the start to the 1st article
> 
> I didn't want to mention it before because I have no proof but someone said the dog was at times unsure and cast his head around. WUSV Worlds is judged very differntly from local trials.
> 
> > I choose to believe what I see on the video and what I
> >hear/read from people that were there.
> 
> To say that the SV is corrupt and wanted the German Team to win is ridiculous. They would have won on points anyway or can you show me, arithmetically, how they would have lost??
> 
> >You're entitled to your opinion. I don't see unsure or casting
> >and neither did anyone there. I also didn't see any leash > checking or "help" at the articles another excuse that some >are trying to make for the low score. Team Germany 264
> >USA 246 18 point difference any tracking score 89 or above
> >would have meant USA in first place. Now the judge might
> >have explained an 87 or 88 but the 70 was a blatant FU


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## Dave Martin

Gillian, please watch both of those videos. 

Again, I was not there, but there were several people that were who swear the first third of her track was the same exact picture, if not smoother, AND the judge's critique was a blanket statement about "handler help" on their articles. In other words, no mention of the dog having any difficulty prior to the first article.

It's a very disheartening reality but I hope you understand why many of us are so frustrated over this.


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## Stefan Schaub

Gillian Schuler said:


> I dud read on one forum that Debbie tightend the lead before each article which doesn't make sene to me.
> 
> What a shame to an otherwise great event.
> 
> I will not pass judgement until I have finally seen the judgement in written form from Erwin Patzen.


I do not really care who have win or not.only want say, i think it is close to impossible to see the articles in that grass 10 meters in front!! the team captain can make a protest, but on the end the decision of the judge is indisputable.
for that reason it is time to bring 3 judges on the fields,but that is the same old story.


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## Kristian Taves

I think that a better tracking score for Debbie Zappia would not have made a difference in the team placings.
The top three teams from each country are counted.
Germany has 864. USA has 846 (Zappia's total score is not used, Payne, Diehl, Riess-Mundry are)
If Debbie Zappia posts a track of 85 or better, her total score replaces that of Sigrid Riess-Mundry in the USA team count.
So, say Debbie Zappia scores 95 in tracking. The team scores would have been
Germany 864. USA 856. Even a 100 point track from Zappia keeps USA in 2nd place.

Congratulations to my USA team for its excellent finish. Congratulations to the German team for winning. Congratulations to all the competitors and teams. To the host country, France, Super Web Site!


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## Dave Martin

Thanks for the clarification on that, Kristian. I still wish this competitor had a fair shot at the podium


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## Steve Burger

I think this discussion has turned ridiculous. To make a determination of a what a score should be from seeing part of a track with a poor quality video taken from a few hundred yards away is impossible. To then make a jump to accusations of corruption is a further leap into madness. 

First and foremost this is not a UScA, DVG or WDA club trial you are observing. This is a world championship. Every minute detail is going to be scrutinized. 

We had a long discussion and overview of the trial this evening. Gabi Hoffman (Canada #1) said Finn's track was phenomenal. He never deviated for an instant from the track. He nailed every corner. She lost most of the 7 points because the article indication was about 6 inches from his chest as opposed to right between his paws. 

The tracking conditions were pretty easy. For dogs prepared for very difficult conditions this can be a bit of a curse, because they can lose concentration and get sloppy. 

Lance (Canada #2) said the judge was extreme in what he wanted. First and foremost no tight leads, loose lead only. So what some people on here may be used to in terms of a tight lead (and I know some probably to the point of steering), is something that got absolutely crucified in the judging. This is where apparently Debbie lost her points. And it was likely not just at the articles but at corners. Lance said he lost some points here as well because his dog was pulling pretty hard in places. He also lost some major points because the article indication was also not directly between his paws. 

Unless you have competed at the WUSV, you may not be in tune to just how severe the judging can be. It can literally be a completely different world.

Gabi also said that Finn was almost pulled from the competition on Saturday, due to appearing sick. He had pretty much cleared up in time to compete, but was not quite up to par. It was evident in the routine in his slow blind searches and bark and hold..still good enough for a 96.


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## Gerald Guay

Thanks Steve for posting this. Has me wondering about the argument of whether a visiting judge to Canada or the US should be more lenient in his or her scoring. I recall in the past a Canadian competitor who got very high 90's all season from visiting SV judges. he and his dog qualified and went to the WUSV that year. His dog's performance at WUSV was equal to his domestic performances but his scores were all in the low 80's. Say's the interpretation of the rule book was so much stricter at WUSV and that sticker judging with the same interpretation of the rules over here would have prepared him better.

GG


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## Gillian Schuler

Thanks Steve.

Our judges in IPO would penalize us even at a local trial if we tried to influence the dog in any way by tightening the lead. Also for uncertainty at corners. The same goes for an article which is not between the front paws.

A lot of handlers in the lower classes and in BH complain about it. There are numerous discussions about treating handlers more leniently because it is a local trial but our most competent judges find it incorrect.

I was disturbed to find that anyone would imagine that Erwin Patzen would stoop to corruption. I read on a German Forum that a competitor found him to be the fairest and also most competent judges out.

Dave, I did watch the videos as you asked me to but I couldn't even see the tracking line properly and no chance to judge the dog's performance.

To my mind only two people know what happened, the competitor and the judge. Without their reports everything else is just malicious rumours.


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## Dave Martin

And again, my anger and frustration isn't derived from me just knowing this competitor "is good" and thinking she "should' have gotten a better score. We have a mutual friend who was THERE with her during this track, and this wasn't this competitor's first time, second time, or even third time competing on the world level.

Part of what is evident in the videos is that this dog wasn't racing through this track - you guys can keep trying to convince yourselves of what you can and can't see (and I do acknowledge you can't see details in these videos), but the dog's pace is very clear and the line was not tight at the articles.

Gillian, I refuse to speak for this person because I believe she has a lot more class than I do and is taking the appropriate avenues to address what took place (and not venting on an internet forum), but you can believe I wouldn't be this irritated if she received a fair critique of the errors her or her dog supposedly made. This was clear cut corruption that was evident, on several levels, to everyone who was present.


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## Gillian Schuler

Hi Dave

I didn't even know that the pace had been questioned?

"Everyone else" who was there could not have had anywhere near the same view of that of the judge. No one is allowed to be so near.

I have no personal interest in this. I was thrilled that the two US girls had attained such good results when I first posted.

For the sake of IPO sport, or any dog sport for that matter, the assumption of corruption being involved disturbs me.

I hope we meet on more pleasant grounds soon.


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## Steve Burger

Gerald Guay said:


> Thanks Steve for posting this. Has me wondering about the argument of whether a visiting judge to Canada or the US should be more lenient in his or her scoring. I recall in the past a Canadian competitor who got very high 90's all season from visiting SV judges. he and his dog qualified and went to the WUSV that year. His dog's performance at WUSV was equal to his domestic performances but his scores were all in the low 80's. Say's the interpretation of the rule book was so much stricter at WUSV and that sticker judging with the same interpretation of the rules over here would have prepared him better.
> 
> GG


 Obviously there are major differences between different SV judges. Some judges have the reputation for being Santa Claus on the trial field. Some judges are very good, though very tough and under such judges it would be very difficult to obtain high scores unless the dog was performing at a very high level. Some judges are all over the map, to the point of you don't know what kind of score you are going to get given the performance. 

For this reason if we have people preparing to compete at a high level, then we tend to bring in some pretty good but sometimes tough judges, especially if we are the organizing club for a regional event. Now if we have a trial that does not matter, with a bunch of novice handlers who are trialing for the very first time, then we just might (though not necessarily) bring in a judge that is fairly good, but reasonably fair and not with hard-ass reputation (especially if we are trying to keep costs down). We avoid the middle judge (all over the map) or assholes at all costs. 

Many clubs and organizing committees of regional events continually bring in the first type of judge mentioned (Santa Claus). I suppose this is good for marketing your dogs if you are a breeder or stud dog owner. It is not so good if you want a realistic picture of the quality of the dog, and your training methods. You reap what you sow.


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## Steve Burger

Gillian Schuler said:


> Thanks Steve.
> 
> Our judges in IPO would penalize us even at a local trial if we tried to influence the dog in any way by tightening the lead. Also for uncertainty at corners. The same goes for an article which is not between the front paws.
> 
> A lot of handlers in the lower classes and in BH complain about it. There are numerous discussions about treating handlers more leniently because it is a local trial but our most competent judges find it incorrect.
> 
> I was disturbed to find that anyone would imagine that Erwin Patzen would stoop to corruption. I read on a German Forum that a competitor found him to be the fairest and also most competent judges out.
> 
> Dave, I did watch the videos as you asked me to but I couldn't even see the tracking line properly and no chance to judge the dog's performance.
> 
> To my mind only two people know what happened, the competitor and the judge. Without their reports everything else is just malicious rumours.


 It is the same here when quality judges are brought in. However as I mentioned in another post. Many people are not used to seeing very difficult, high quality judging because they keep going back to the Santa Claus well when picking judges or picking trials to enter. Personally I much prefer to score in the 80's under tough judges than I might by going under a crappy or Santa Claus type and being "given" a higher score. That is why it really bummed me out last year when I lost control of Cairo during the front half side transport under Gunther Diegel at a regional event. His words to me were "it is a pity, she had a very good routine going up to that point".


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