# house dog/ working dog question...



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

I have a rowdy 13month old AB, who ive recently brought indoors because he's a barker. The barking has subsided, and although the majority of the time he is kept crated unless I can have super close supervision, he is still constantly getting into every damn thing possible. I keep a double stitched nylon leash on him for control and he has biten one leash in half... so then I got a foot long link chain extension for his leash which helps sometimes...

Its seriously driving me crazy.

There have been about a half dozen times where he'd get sneaky and go for the couch pillows or coushions, and knowing that he'll think its even more enjoyable to have someone tugging on the other end of the pillow, i just very firmly grab him at the base of the leash and hang him until he outs.

My main question is, the boy has to learn house manners, but is this going to hinder sleeve work or create problems on the field? I just got him started in Schutzhund, and the training director has said some good things about him. I'm trying to find a balance while keeping my sanity.... I don't mind crating him, but on the other hand he can't live in his crate 24/7. I would put him outside, but he barks at every damn thing, and I don't want to piss off my new neigbors.

How do you guys cope?


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Meng Xiong said:


> I have a rowdy 13month old AB, who ive recently brought indoors because he's a barker. The barking has subsided, and although the majority of the time he is kept crated unless I can have super close supervision, he is still constantly getting into every damn thing possible. I keep a double stitched nylon leash on him for control and he has biten one leash in half... so then I got a foot long link chain extension for his leash which helps sometimes...
> 
> Its seriously driving me crazy.
> 
> ...


Sounds like this dog has extreme amounts of energy!  Time for some serious excercise! How much do you work him? Ever try frisbee? He's a little young for running with the bike, keep that in mind when he get's older, like 18 months or so.
As the saying goes, a tired dog is a good dog.  Wear his ass out everyday!


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

FWIW, there is a great write up in SchH USA magazine this month, detailing various handler/owner experiences with inside versus kennel dogs. There are various opinions and the people quoted are trialing at club, regional, national and world events. Maybe you can borrow the magazine from a club member if you haven't received it yet. I can't find a link to it on SchH USA.

I'm faced with a similiar situation in my home, 2 nine month old puppies. The one has zero manners and I am training her in scHh. I've thought about the possibility of house manners effecting her drives, but I believe she is smart enough to tell the difference between house and field, tug and couch cushion. Will see.

I've found that frozen cream cheese in a kong works well for a bit. Not to mention exercise like Edward mentioned. I try to let the pups run free at a baseball field (fenced in) and then walk a mile or so daily. SHort bouts of fun marker training is good too.

Or, have you tried a bark collar on him when he's outside?


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

All dogs aren't the same so with that said. I don't think teaching him house manners will hnder his schutzhund training. He has got to know how to act in the house. At the same time he will know that when training sch it is OK to bite. Stay on his butt when he's in the house and let him enjoy the sch. It may even frustrate him enough to make him a better dog on the Sch field.


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## Tiffany Geisen (Nov 4, 2008)

I have a 7 month old mal and a 12 month old mal and forever i didn't want to discipline cuz i thought i would take something away from them on the field. But I live in apartment and house manners were a must. To help with the energy they go every where with me and the chuckit is our bestfriend. If i pass a park and i'm not in a hurry i stop and throw it a few times for them. While this helps with there energy level they still had to learn house manners. Sometimes i'm hard on them but never unjustly, they both take their frustrations out on the suit. If your dog is strong discipline should never take any of his working ability away from him unless you unjustly discipline in extreme ways. Even though we are training sport dogs the original purpose of the working sports was to test breeds for suitability as a protection and family dog. What good is a protection/family dog if he can't quietly lay on a pillow in your house while your doing things or having guest over. Thats just my take.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Beat his furry ass ! ! ! ! ! ! !

If he is that crazy, you just plain are not training him.

Go outside and work your dog.

Good luck as most bulldogs are shitters in the bitework.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

You can't put drive in and it's not easy to take out! For a small pup, to hear his name in varying octaves, screeched out during the day, accompanied by "no" is not maybe so good but most survive. Better to crate him and take him out often for 15 minutes or so and stick him back in again. Teaching a dog to behave in the house, etc. will not lessen his drive, if it's there in the first place 

I think where the dog spends his days, whether in or out of the house is a personal matter, i.e. space, preference, etc.

The older GSD is, apart from his territorial obscenities, quiet in the house, the younger one, if on his own is impossible and will probably remain so. If I'm working at home, and can only have one eye on him, I crate him or have them both free in the house. Here No. 1 doesn't allow No. 2 to "freak out".

Trying to tire them out is futile in the case of No. 2. I feel the more I do with him take him running, let him swim, etc. the more he wants to create havoc when we get back. OK, so into the crate he goes. Little exercises which involve his "thinking" seem to settle him better.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Put a bark collar on him and throw him back outside, problem solved! Being a Bulldog, he probably wont be mature enough to settle in for another 4 years. LOL Stupid slow developers.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Both my outside GSDs spent the first 6-8 months in the house to learn manners. It has nothing to do with any bite work. 
If you keep an eye on the pup (tether it to you) you wont have a need to be knocking the crap out of it. 
If you can't watch it it goes in a crate or outside. 
If it barks to much outside get a bark collar. One of mine wears one every night.


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Thanks for all of the replys!


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## Annika Friberg (Mar 27, 2009)

How about some other brain games too - tracking games (easy trails in the backyard or the park), hide and seek, different varieties of kongs, problem solving - to tire him out mentally on top of any physical exercise? 

Kongs and problem solving toys can be left out around the house so chances are he picks one of those up before he goes for the couch pillows.

Or raw meaty bones/marrow bones which can also be filled with frozen stuff once the marrow is out along the lines of enrichment theory (what they use in zoos to keep wild animals from being bored stiff in enclosed spaces - a variety of things to chew and investigate, different smells and structures).

It probably won't solve all your problems but it might give you a break at times and keep your dog occupied with non-destructive stuff when he's inside.


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## Beth Allen (Dec 17, 2008)

What has worked for me is when you let him outside,exercise him physically and mix it up with him using his brain... tracking, searching etc... on the way back in a little obedience. I use a short tab leash and have a dog bed in a room where he is visable and place him on it with a bone, Kong etc. He need's to be trained his inside limit's. He does not understand his limit's those have to be trained. 
Plus he is a big puppy with a bad case of "Puppy Brain"
His working job right now is to look cute, poop and take over the house. Dog's will take advantage of what you allow.
I agree that it does not diminish his drive. I think that their are more owner's with Great Working dog's that can also be inside. I could give you a novel.
And give him some rules and take it from there.
Good luck with him, Beth


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## Brigita Brinac (Jun 29, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Both my outside GSDs spent the first 6-8 months in the house to learn manners. It has nothing to do with any bite work.
> If you keep an eye on the pup (tether it to you) you wont have a need to be knocking the crap out of it.
> If you can't watch it it goes in a crate or outside.
> If it barks to much outside get a bark collar. One of mine wears one every night.



totally agree. 

It really does depend on the method used to teach 'house manners'....IOW, if they're going to kick his a** daily and scream and nag to get him to behave...yeah I think it will carry over into his protection work....The CRATE is a Godsend! lol and so is the bark collar....


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jerry Lyda said:


> All dogs aren't the same so with that said. I don't think teaching him house manners will hnder his schutzhund training. He has got to know how to act in the house. At the same time he will know that when training sch it is OK to bite. Stay on his butt when he's in the house and let him enjoy the sch. It may even frustrate him enough to make him a better dog on the Sch field.


I too, can't honestly see the relevance between teaching a dog manners in the house and the bitework.

Even if a dog is screamed at all day long in the house (not advisable of course) it won't likely have an influence on his ability, nerve, drive to bite - I just can't see the connection.

Being a "complete and utter nutcase" in the house is due to lax control and has nothing to do with his drive and intent on the protection field.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Beat his furry ass ! ! ! ! ! ! !
> 
> If he is that crazy, you just plain are not training him.
> 
> ...



I totally agree with Jeffers on this one.


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## Brigita Brinac (Jun 29, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I too, can't honestly see the relevance between teaching a dog manners in the house and the bitework.
> 
> _Even if a dog is screamed at all day long in the house (not advisable of course) it won't likely have an influence on his ability, nerve, drive to bite - I just can't see the connection._
> 
> ...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I added "not advisable of course" because of the beginners on here who might take it the wrong way.

However, this is just splitting hairs.

I've watched and trained with men and women from various walks of life over the years. Some keep their dogs in the house all the time, some partially and some always in kennels. Some of the dogs were also Diensthunde. 

I've visited some of them at home and observed that the well mannered pups dogs were no less tough in bitework than those left partially or wholly in kennels.

Quote

*You know I get so tired (not personal) of people claiming that SUPER puppies are infallible...BS! Years ago I had an awesome Frenchman say to me: ' a dog spends only 10% of his/her life on the training field...the rest is in its every day life...does it take a rocket scientist to figure out which one is going to have the biggest influence????'*

Unquote


Who said anything about SUPER puppies? Or do you mean those not even born that are "top drive tough pups from super working dogs"?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Some of the dogs were also Diensthunde.


gillian, what does this mean?


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## Brigita Brinac (Jun 29, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I added "not advisable of course" because of the beginners on here who might take it the wrong way.
> 
> ****OK, this logic escapes me...if we go on the original theory that a genetically STRONG pup will overcome adversity....then what difference does it make if one is a beginner or not???--The pup should turn out awesome regardless right??*
> 
> ...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

This is getting so far-fetched......

If the lady you knew threw a frying pan at her pup, there would be no need to throw newspapers:-({|=


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

ann freier said:


> gillian, what does this mean?


Police, customs, military dogs, etc. "Dienst" means "Service" so I guess "Service Dogs" would be the correct translation, although in training Schutzhund, Mondio, etc. the police dogs are usually what is meant..


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## Brigita Brinac (Jun 29, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> This is getting so far-fetched......
> 
> If the lady you knew threw a frying pan at her pup, there would be no need to throw newspapers:-({|=


It happens dude....but hey if a pup is genetically strong...what the heck...they can cope with it and come out on top right????


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Police, customs, military dogs, etc. "Dienst" means "Service" so I guess "Service Dogs" would be the correct translation, although in training Schutzhund, Mondio, etc. the police dogs are usually what is meant..


thanks!! gotta learn something new every day


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