# Different breeds doing Schutzhund



## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

Now that I has decided to do Schutzhund with my little GSD monster, I am learning that the control exercises can be difficult and my obedience is not as good as I thought it was. It will get better with practice.

I am also thinking about getting another breed dog. I have been visiting a few Schutzhund Clubs in the Atlanta Metro area and there are all kinds of dogs training for Schutzhund...pittbulls, ABs, Giant Schnauzers and mastiffs.

I am thinking about getting a pittbul or a mastiff. Well my fiancé wants a mastiff called a Cane Corso. I am not sure about the mastiff thing, they are just too big and clumsy. Truth be told, I do not know enough about them and their ability to perform well in such a high drive sport as Schutzhund. I know that this second dog will be my fiancé's dog but she wants to get into dog sports. I just do not believe that she can handle such a big dog.

I am trying to convince her to get a pittbull they are small and if bred right they are good workers.


A pittbull took first place at the in Schutzhund II at the DVG nationals. 8) http://dvgamerica.com/08winners.html

I came across this post on another forum of a guy with a Cane Corso doing Schutzhund. 
http://members.boardhost.com/CCK9/msg/1233664276.html
He looks ok, but man he is huge. It looks like that that dog is about to pull that guy into the ground.  I do not think that my girl can handle just a big dog. She only weighs 110 lbs. :| 
http://members.boardhost.com/CCK9/msg/1233664276.html


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

The Cane Corso is the slower of the two yet they do OK in schutzhund. They tend to be more handler sensitive so she would do ok with the CC. We have a guy that trains with us that breeds them and he does both APPDA and schutzhund with his. The CC are a little smaller than the Mastiff breeds but powerful in the bite.


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## Christen Adkins (Nov 27, 2006)

Pet peeve alert: Pit bull is spelled with one "t." 

There are some very nice working bulldogs out there, but finding one that has the right drives and temperament to do bitework is not easy to come by. In addition to being a high-energy breed, there is also varying degrees of dog-dog aggression. Not everyone is equip or wants to deal with DA, especially in a multi-dog household. Just a couple things worth pointing out.

Good luck finding your next SchH dog.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

if you are already having control issues with your GSD and are obviously a little green in the sport why do you want to train another dog? Canes, Pits, etc are going to be harder to train than a GSD for schH.

It takes quite a bit of my time training a Malinois pup and a Rottweiler that is already trained for schH.

There is a lot more to training than you think and you may want to consider that a half trained dog that has had bitework could be an extra liability. 

Respectfully... do something with your GSD before you do anything else with another pet.


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## Amber Gentry (Dec 15, 2008)

I agree with the above poster about spending some more time working with the GSD before taking on another dog.

I have a Cane Corso I am training in Schutzhund. If you are considering a Cane Corso check out the Cane Corso forum,http://www.ccaaforum.com/forums/ there are a lot of folks working their dogs in various sports there.

As far as your fiance having trouble controlling the dog, I would look at her experience handling dogs, rather than her size. I am only 95 lbs., heck my dog out-weighed me at 7 months! As mentioned below my dog is handler sensitive also.

Best of luck in whatever you choose.


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## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> if you are already having control issues with your GSD and are obviously a little green in the sport why do you want to train another dog? Canes, Pits, etc are going to be harder to train than a GSD for schH.
> 
> It takes quite a bit of my time training a Malinois pup and a Rottweiler that is already trained for schH.
> 
> ...


Thanks man for the advice. I really appreciate everyone's input. The other dog would actually be my girl's dog and she has committed to join a Schutzhund club with me. Since she will be getting a puppy, most likely she will start with private lessons. I have experience in personall protection dogs but not sport dogs. The obedience routines are different, like sit in motion and attention heels. This is difficult for me since I was taught that a dog should always watch its surroundings and not me. 

However, I am dedicating my GSD to the sport. She is about 18 months with lots of drive. She has been evaluated and I was told that she has the right stuff to be a Schutzhund dog. 

By the time the new pup is ready for a BH, I should be ready for a Schutzhund I :-| , I hope.


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## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

Amber Gentry said:


> I agree with the above poster about spending some more time working with the GSD before taking on another dog.
> 
> I have a Cane Corso I am training in Schutzhund. If you are considering a Cane Corso check out the Cane Corso forum,http://www.ccaaforum.com/forums/ there are a lot of folks working their dogs in various sports there.
> 
> ...


Thanks Amber, my girl grew up wih dobermans so she is pretty dog savvy. I probably should give her more credit since she will mostly likely be better than me at handling dogs.  You know it is hard for us guys to admit that their girl has one up on them. 

We are going to check out that web site eventhough I would rather her get a Pitbull. Of course, the decision is hers.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Mike Jones said:


> Now that I has decided to do Schutzhund with my little GSD monster, I am learning that the control exercises can be difficult and my obedience is not as good as I thought it was. It will get better with practice.


where your your PP training come in? There is little difference in having a controlled dog regardless if you have a PPD or sport dog. In fact, I hope you'd have MORE controlled over a PPD juxtaposed to a sport dog.

I'm not trying to beat you up here but you really need to not have another young and uncontrollable dog at this point. If you can't train a GSD to be controlled then you'll have issues with a stubborn but sensitive dog like a Cane Corso or Pit.


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

in my experience, the "bullys," the APBTs and the ASTs etc, have less of a work ethic and less inherent handler focus than the 'furry' dogs, the GSDs etc & etc. you CAN build that focus in the short haired ones, but you'll work harder at it, because they were developed to have a more independent mindset than the furry dogs. they're more alive to their surroundings than they are completely honed in on only the handler. that being said, if you can find an APBT or an AST bred the way you want it, i think your GF certainly have fun with it. you probably won't train the two breeds in the same manner though.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Mike, no bullshit, stay away from the bulldogs. Too big a chance it won't do the work. Get her a nice Dutch Shepherd from that Suttle kid.


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## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

I second Jeff, for once.


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Get what breed you want just research research research!!! I have worked pits american bulls, and personally have olde english bull dogges which I do schutzhund with..We also have Malinois..Just find what makes you happy and fits your house hold your training ability and your own temperment..Finding a good working partner wether it is sport PP or working dog has more then just the breed of dog..

just my opinoin

Clark Niemitalo


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## Willaim Somers (Jan 17, 2009)

I agree , go with what you like for a breed, do a ton of research and find the right temperment for your particular situation. My only other point is when you buy a dog, for sport, realize the price and time spent finding the dog you want is just a drop in the bucket compared to the time and money spent in training, competing, feeding...ect. So spend the time and cash now, you'll be much happier in the long run


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## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all of your advice, we will definitely take some time a get the right dog. In the end, I just want her to be happy. We will definitely invest the time and money needed to get the new puppy trained the right way.

I prefer GSD, they are the perfect working dog. I love my buddy, he is eager to please and loves to work. I'm learning that most of the training that I do with my dog is actually on me. He is a quick learner, I am the slow one.:-| However, my girl wants her own dog.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Jones said:


> Thanks everyone for all of your advice, we will definitely take some time a get the right dog. In the end, I just want her to be happy. We will definitely invest the time and money needed to get the new puppy trained the right way.
> 
> I prefer GSD, they are the perfect working dog. I love my buddy, he is eager to please and loves to work. I'm learning that most of the training that I do with my dog is actually on me. He is a quick learner, I am the slow one.:-| However, my girl wants her own dog.


Get your girl a Shepherd would you take her sharp shooting with a musket.


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Sharp shooting with a musket thats good..But is the GSD a sniper rifle..NO Check the results for the ALL BREED CHAMPIONSHIPS, I have been at most of the SCH championships in the last 7 years mainly doing the helper work..So to bite my tongue here the quality of the GSD in big events has declined,With exception to a few...So dont bring a butter knife to a sniper comp..

Clark Niemitalo 

11 x regional helper

12 x national chanpionship helper

2 x world championship helper

Tiltled my fare share of dogs of numerous breeds


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Get your girl a Shepherd would you take her sharp shooting with a musket.



LOL! one thing to consider - it sounds like the OPs girlfriend wants a certain type of dog first, and then is hoping to do the work with it second. if she's looking for a dog to go all the way to the top of the world in SCHH with, i wouldn't recommend one of the breeds that she's wanting. however, if she's looking for a dog within those breeds to also work (2nd priority) i think she can have fun training one of them towards a SCHH title. i can think of ~30 APBTs/ASTs off hand that have been titled to a SCHHI or higher. those are just dogs that i know of personally, & there are several more with BH or AD titles as well - both of which are nice accomplishments on their own.

however, if looking for a breeder that specializes in dogs with the drive and focus to work in this capacity, i recommend you spend considerable time looking & asking around. you'll most likely have to do some relationship building with a good breeder; and please and run like hell from anyone who advertises the color, stockiness, headsize, or bone-size of their dogs!


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## Shane Carter (May 25, 2008)

I have done plenty of work with "OFF BREEDS" over the years and can tell you for certain that it takes a special dog and the right handler to really be successful. 
My son and myself did the helper work at the first ever SACCI nationals in TX late last year and saw some nice dogs. 
I have titled CC in Schutzhund BH and done a WST on a 155lb male that was pretty exceptional. He was not my dog but a clients dog and would bite for real with no problem but was too big for real Schutzhund work but is great personal dog for his owner.
I own ABs and have the only AB in the country with a Assistance Cert, PSA PDC, WST, TDI,and CGC. As well as caught a hog in the pen, to prove the natural work for some people.

What needs to be remembered about "OFF BREEDS" especially the CC is that you have to promote as much Prey drive as possible for the dogs to really make steady progress in the Sports. This is not the drive they where bred to work in and need to be kept there. When you need to touch the Defense drive it will be there with no problems.

If you are going out to Wallace Payne's club then talk to Josh Markow with the Sch 3 AB he should be able to help you out.

Know that this is more than an uphill battle it is an up the Mountain battle to title a CC in Schutzhund or anything else. There are not many trainers that want to work them, or know how to work them properly, not many dogs that can do it, and not many owners that can put in the time to get it done all of that working against you but it can be done. Give me a holler if you need any help.

Shane Carter/Hankdad


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Shane is a fantastic helper/trainer.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Clark Niemitalo said:


> So to bite my tongue here the quality of the GSD in big events has declined,With exception to a few...So dont bring a butter knife to a sniper comp..


Butter knife!!:razz: You see more dogs than me seems to me there are more and more good gsd's
Could it be the popularity of the mal is skewing your opinion of the gsd. maybe your tilting a little in the direction of the tenacious little brown dogs


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Count of dog breeds in SE reginals and SW reginals:

SW
12-BM
17-GSD
1-D
1-R
winner-BM

SE
11-GSD
1-R
1-BM
1-Gt. Schnauzer
winner- GSD


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## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Count of dog breeds in SE reginals and SW reginals:
> 
> SW
> 12-BM
> ...


Thanks Jerry for the break down. In need a little interpretation man, I'm slow like that. What is a D and did it get a titile?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I guess Doberman?


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

It was a dobe and it failed part C , protection


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Count of dog breeds in SE reginals and SW reginals:
> SE
> 11-GSD
> 1-R
> ...


Wow, looks like we need to send a few more Mali's to the SE region


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Don't catchee chickens before hatched!!!


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

I would have to say i have gotten out of mals for the time being..Its not the quality of the dog i was trying to show.Just to say that you should get this or this breed is ignorant. Get what you want and have fun with it..

If I were to show trial results i would look at FCI or AWDF events to show the top dog NOT regional sch USA evnts.just my opinoin.

I have worked alot of big trials and would say that there are only a few gsds that stick in my head of recent same with mali's,4 years ago the number in my head was bigger..Could just be old age and they are all blending together..Doubt it though I have great memory and i'm only 33.

Good luck with whatever breed you choose and enjoy the time you put into it..

Clark Niemitalo


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## Erynn Lucas (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks Jerry. Yes, there was a Dobe and it was me. "It" didn't fail protection. She took a bite in the blind and I told her to out. Instant DQ. Too bad too, or those other dogs would have had trouble keeping their trophies. She was high B and I screwed up her tracking on Sunday, but she has had a 100pt track before. I did count 8 GSDs that failed though, plus there were NO GSDs on the podium for 3s, and a Rott beat out the sheps for the 2s.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

No I'm not a die hard GSD fan (but don't tell Will that ) I just tallied the standings that's all. 

You must score 70 or better, if not, you fail no matter what. I had a very good friend of mine and I'm sure a lot of you or at least someone you know has done this; A and B passed with high 90's ,, C would have been too but the dog did not out on the last bite. Dog failed. Those are the rules.


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## Erynn Lucas (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes, it is true what you say. The reason I clarified is that I didn't want anyone to think that she was chased or did not engage. After all... she is a Doberman, and some have pretty low feelings on the breed. I wanted to make it clear that it was an illegal command that got us a zero.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Thanks Erynn- that is exactly what I had thought.

Julie


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Erynn, I never thought that. There's been a lot of things that can cause a dog not to make it. In most cases it's from dogs that are into the biting not running. We have three dobes in our club, none will run.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I would talk to your girlfriend more and see if she is prepared to crate and rotate with your dog as some APBT's do NOT whether raised around otehr dogs or not get along with them when they get older. Also how's the BSL in your area? Are you planning on moving anytime soon (14-15 years)??? If so, are you prepared to handle all the places you can NOT live because you own an APBT? 

I hate to see novices (not saying she is one) end up with an APBT for their first dog. My first pretty much was an APBT and I speak from expierience. They are HARD to own not because of the breed but because of society. Finding a good breeder that will sell a pup for Schutzhund os VERY hard as well. Good Luck!!! 

Courtney


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

One consideration that may have been overlook is: What club are you joining and what breeds do they have experience with. Taking an off breed dog to a club that's full of GSD's and Mal's with no experience with Pit's or whatever dog you purchase is asking alot of their trainer's and helpers. Just my 2 cents.


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