# Nature's Logic Dog Foods



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Is anybody feeding this? It looks good on paper ot me and the price is right. I am asking for updated ingredients analyses because it looks like copy and paste on several formulas and the phosphorus is high on the beef. The food I would not consider for growth but for maintenance.

http://www.natureslogic.com/products/dp.html


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Nature's Logic is an excellent food!

I fed it years ago, but my biggest issue has always been not having it readily available at all times. They are still a small, privately owned and manufactured food company and one of the few companies who have not compromised their ingredient quality over the years. Their ingredients are super high quality and very thoughtful. 

If I had regular access to it, I would absolutely feed it!


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

Nancy,

I know you've covered this before but I'm working from my iPad right now and am not having any luck with searches. Could you either link to the thread where it was discussed or give a brief overview of the significance of phosphorus levels in dog food? I know it's a concern for dogs with kidney issues. Do you look for low phosphorus just to be proactive and hopefully prevent future issues or are there other concerns?

Also, any links to websites or articles that discuss proper nutrient levels for different stages of growth and development and the science behind that? There are plenty of opinions on what food is best for what dog of what age, but I'm always interested in the whys. 

Thanks!


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I know there are folks on this forum who know a LOT more about this than I do and would love to hear insights as just about all high protein foods run higher an calcium and phosphorus.

For puppies there are studies that say - too much calcium (actually in excess of 3%) can contribute to bone overgrowth, and I think excess phosphorus can impair calcium uptake in addition to being harder on the kidneys.

For puppies it is more critical and I have heard optinals are less than 1.5% calcium and l.0% phosphorus which is why the higher number foods are not labeled all life stages. 

I did talk with the folks at Natures Logic on this and they feel the issue is there with the typical carbohydrate load and synthetic vitamin D as opposed to a more natural diet and that natural raw levels of both nutrients are much higher. They do claim all life stages for the beef which has Ca=2.1% and P at 3.0% which is the reverse of how you like to see the ratios

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/124/12_Suppl/2535S.full.pdf

Now they did feeding trials ( I know these are minimal to the point of being a joke) and have an AAFCO all life stages statement on the product......So I am a bit confused there (at least on the beef formula).

But I have known several who have used the food for a long time and are very impressed. They use zero manufactured vitamins, relying on food sources to provide them and even advocate that a raw diet is the best diet.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Ariel Peldunas said:


> Nancy,
> 
> I know you've covered this before but I'm working from my iPad right now and am not having any luck with searches. Could you either link to the thread where it was discussed or give a brief overview of the significance of phosphorus levels in dog food? I know it's a concern for dogs with kidney issues. Do you look for low phosphorus just to be proactive and hopefully prevent future issues or are there other concerns?
> 
> ...



Ariel,

I found this with a google search 
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/cliented/ckd.aspx

*Diet
*Feeding of a kidney diet is usually recommended. Kidney diets contain less protein compared to other diets and the protein is high in quality. It is protein in the diet that is converted to waste products that the kidneys must remove in the urine. The higher the quality of the protein in the diet, the less wastes created for the kidneys to eliminate. Low quality protein requires the kidneys remove more wastes. which makes them work harder. Egg and meat contain higher quality protein; cereal grain protein is of lower quality which leads to more wastes for the kidneys to eliminate. Protein is used by the body to repair cells and tissues that are continually regenerating, so a pet needs some protein in their diet. By feeding a low quantity, but high quality protein diet that contains an appropriate amount of fats and carbohydrates, the pet's body can use the protein for replacing the cells and tissues and use the fat and carbohydrates for energy. Kidney diets also contain a lower amount of phosphorus. Phosphorus accumulates in the blood when the kidneys are diseased. Kidney diets control the amount of other substances that may be too high or too low in patients with CKD such as salt, potassium, magnesium and B vitamins. There are differences in the kidney diets for dogs and cats. When making diet changes it is often beneficial to gradually introduce the new diet by adding increasing amounts of the new diet while reducing the amount of the current diet over 1 to 2 weeks. The pet is more likely to accept a new diet when it is introduced gradually and it is less stressful to the kidneys to gradually adapt to changes in the diet.

Protein restricted diets are less palatable than higher protein diets. Pets with CKD that are still eating are more likely to accept a change in diet to a protein restricted diet than are pets who are very ill and refusing most foods. Protein restricted diets are more expensive than higher protein diets. 


*Phosphorus, calcium and PTH
*Pets with CKD usually have increased blood phosphorus. In health, phosphorus and calcium are controlled by a hormone called parathyroid hormone (PTH). PTH works with vitamin D on the intestine, kidney and bone to keep calcium and phosphorus normal. As the kidneys fail the amount of PTH in the body is elevated and the amount of vitamin D is reduced. Elevated PTH itself may be responsible for some of the signs shown by pets with CKD. PTH draws calcium and phosphorus from the bones which can weaken bones which can lead to bone fracture. 

Kidney diets typically contain reduced phosphorus and an appropriate amount of calcium but if phosphorus remains elevated when the pet is eating a kidney diet then phosphorus can be tied up in the intestinal tract so it can be eliminated in the stool. Intestinal phosphate binding agents include aluminum carbonate, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum oxide, calcium citrate, calcium acetate and calcium carbonate and sevelamer hydrochloride. Phosphate binding agents which contain calcium should not be used until blood phosphorus is normal to prevent calcium and phosphorus from combining and precipitating in tissues including the kidneys. It is not usually necessary to give additional calcium but if a pet has low blood calcium, the phosphorus should be normalized before giving calcium. Even when blood phosphorus is normalized, PTH levels are still higher than normal.The administration of low doses of vitamin D (1, 25 dihydroxycholecalciferol [calcitriol]) will suppress PTH and possibly slow the rate of progression of kidney deterioration.

It is *not* 100% agreed that giving your pet calcitriol will slow the deterioration of the kidneys.


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