# Breeding a dog with one testicle



## Benjamin Allanson

Question for the breeders out there. Would you breed a dog that only had one testicle dropped? Or is this something you would stay away from and why?


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio

Mostly genetic, I would not! Takes 2 to Tango but I'm not a breeder.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Can't remember about dogs, but it is genetic in horses. I'd pass...


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## Mike Scheiber

Benjamin Allanson said:


> Question for the breeders out there. Would you breed a dog that only had one testicle dropped? Or is this something you would stay away from and why?


What breed of dog?


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## Benjamin Allanson

Malinois...


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## Mike Scheiber

Benjamin Allanson said:


> Question for the breeders out there. Would you breed a dog that only had one testicle dropped? Or is this something you would stay away from and why?





Mike Scheiber said:


> What breed of dog?





Benjamin Allanson said:


> Malinois...


Hmm this should be a interesting thread to follow


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## Doug Matson

*Yes, it is a genetic trait.*

*With all of the good males available with both testicles, just why would anyone concerned with the protection of any breed want to use one with only one testicle???? It just makes no sense at all.*


[-X ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga

Since it is genetic and undesirable, it is for the most part not a good idea. I think that is why dogs like Eric Sportpak have no progeny. But once i thought of someting, what if you just need working dogs and you desex all the puppies as adults so the problem doesn't spread???????\\/


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## Nicole Stark

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> But once i thought of someting, what if you just need working dogs and you desex all the puppies as adults so the problem doesn't spread???????\\/


That's funny. I don't think I've ever seen you get sassy on here before


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## Jim Nash

Can a dog live a perfectly normal life with just 1 testicle ? Is it possible for it to produce sperm in order impregnate a bitch only having 1 testicle ?


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## Bob Scott

Jim Nash said:


> Can a dog live a perfectly normal life with just 1 testicle ? Is it possible for it to produce sperm in order impregnate a bitch only having 1 testicle ?



Often time the other testicle is retained inside the dog. That can become cancerous. 
It is very possible to produce pups but it's also genetic and will produce a high % of pups with the same condition.
Not sure if it can lead to completely nutless dogs. 
Breeders here may have a line on that.


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## Dominic Rozzi

Bob Scott said:


> Often time the other testicle is retained inside the dog. That can become cancerous.
> It is very possible to produce pups but it's also genetic and will produce a high % of pups with the same condition.
> Not sure if it can lead to completely nutless dogs.
> Breeders here may have a line on that.


 
i agree with bob, i would pass also


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## Ricardo Ashton

The condition of a dog with one descended testicle is called momorchidism,and both undescended is called cryptorchidism and Bob is correct. Most dogs with this condition are neutered because it's a genetic trait and extremely replicable in its offspring, as well as the odds for the undescended testicle developing cancer are extremely high, around 80 percent. Not to mention unstable hormone levels, and you will never know whats going on with that nut until its too late.
I presonally would never use such a dog as a stud. Too many serious issues to gamble with and the odds come stacked against you.


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## Christopher Jones

One of the greatest Greyhound producers ever in the world was a dog called "Brett Lee". He was bred here in Australia and I think from memory some 80% of his offspring won at the track. His stud fee was $8800. He only had one testicle and man did that little ball get worked hard. 
I spoke to the Greyhound breeders about breeding to him with one nut and they just commented that they are all about producing the fastest dogs. I guess this could also go for producing the best police dogs, or sport dogs. 
For me if a stud dog came along that was similar to Brett Lee in producing 80% of his ofspring as tough Police dogs, I would have to seriously consider it. 
I was actually told by a qualified Genetist that the gene from missing nut can come from the female as much as the male. So it pretty hard to check your female to see if she carries this gene.


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## Jerry Lyda

I've also heard about good dogs being produced from these dogs. My question is , where did this come from if it isn't produced from his pedigree? I've heard of dogs with only one and in the pedigree there was none like this. So, Christopher may be on to something about even the female producing it.


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## Mike Scheiber

Prolly good reason for having breed wardens and surveys don't ya think the more genetic information a breeder has or can get the better???


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio

Mike Scheiber said:


> Prolly good reason for having breed wardens and surveys don't ya think the more genetic information a breeder has or can get the better???


???? Yeah just what we need. Let's make another government agency to oversee breeding.


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## Benjamin Allanson

Ricardo Ashton said:


> The condition of a dog with one descended testicle is called momorchidism,and both undescended is called cryptorchidism and Bob is correct. Most dogs with this condition are neutered because it's a genetic trait and extremely replicable in its offspring, as well as the odds for the undescended testicle developing cancer are extremely high, around 80 percent. Not to mention unstable hormone levels, and you will never know whats going on with that nut until its too late.
> I presonally would never use such a dog as a stud. Too many serious issues to gamble with and the odds come stacked against you.


Any data to support this? Not disagreeing with you just wondering if you had a source for this information.


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## Benjamin Allanson

Christopher Jones said:


> One of the greatest Greyhound producers ever in the world was a dog called "Brett Lee". He was bred here in Australia and I think from memory some 80% of his offspring won at the track. His stud fee was $8800. He only had one testicle and man did that little ball get worked hard.
> I spoke to the Greyhound breeders about breeding to him with one nut and they just commented that they are all about producing the fastest dogs. I guess this could also go for producing the best police dogs, or sport dogs.
> For me if a stud dog came along that was similar to Brett Lee in producing 80% of his ofspring as tough Police dogs, I would have to seriously consider it.
> I was actually told by a qualified Genetist that the gene from missing nut can come from the female as much as the male. So it pretty hard to check your female to see if she carries this gene.



I wonder if their has been much research done on this subject? I know that in humans their are certain traits that can only be passed on by the female, such as hemophilia.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

a no-no, esp with a breed which has enough other options.dog can live with it, neutering is an option for the not descending ball becoming cancerous, dog won't work less. But ya don't breed him.


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## Geoff Empey

If the dog only has one testicle do you get a 1/2 price sale on the stud fee?


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## Percy Longfellow

No legit bio, no post!


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## Benjamin Allanson

FYI monorchidism is when a dog is born without one testicle; can be unilateral or bilateral. Cryptorchidism is when one or both of the dogs testicles fail to drop he still has them though.


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## Kadi Thingvall

There was a study done with goats many years ago regarding cryptorchidism, I'll have to see if I can find it on the web. Basically though they took two herds and tried to breed out the trait in one herd, and used studs with only on descended testicle in the other, to track percent of offspring with the issue, and hereditability of it. I might have read about it in one of my genetics books.

I have also been told that the female can be a carrier for the issue, or even cryptorchid herself, but of course won't express it herself. This can make it difficult to remove from a breeding program, 

This is an interesting website on the topic http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/cryptorchidism.html

From the website, regarding the genetics behind the problem

Loss of the affected animal's parents and siblings from the breeding pool:
When a cryptorchid animal (or animals) appears in a litter, the implication of this is that both of the parents, male and female, must have been carriers of the defective cryptorchid genes, even if the sire did not show any outward sign of cryptorchidism himself. This is due to the recessive way in which the cryptorchid gene(s) is/are thought to be passed down the generations (see section 10c for full details). Additionally, because the parent animals are both carriers of the defect, there is every likelihood that some of the other offspring in the litter (the siblings of the affected animals) may also be carriers of the abnormal genes. Therefore, if control and eradication of the cryptorchidism condition is to occur in a breeding population, the parents of the affected animals, as well as any siblings of the affected animals, should not be bred from. This constitutes a significant loss of breeding potential from that one kennel or cattery.


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## Geoff Empey

Percy Longfellow said:


> What a strange question. Of course not. I suspect you need to learn more about genetics and heritability, Mr. Empey.l


So it is full price then for only half the testicles? What a strange answer Percy ..


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## Maren Bell Jones

Benjamin Allanson said:


> Any data to support this? Not disagreeing with you just wondering if you had a source for this information.





> Although the specific mode(s) of inheritance is not known in either species [cats vs dogs], cryptorchidisim is generally believed to be associated with family lineage. Therefore the prevalence is likely to vary with breed and species. For example, the incidence of cryptorchidism in 2929 boxers was 10.7% (Nielsen et al. 2001). The simplest model consistent with the evidence available is sex-limited, autosomal recessive mode of inheritance. The expression of the trait is limited to males, but the genetic defect is not linked to the sex chromosomes. Therefore both males and females carry the gene and can pass it on to their offspring, but only the homozygous males are phenotypically abnormal (cryptorchid) and readily identifiable....However, the inheritance of cryptorchidism is known to be more complex than that explained by the simple autosomal recessive, sex-limited model, providing yet another possible explanation for why each litter from the same breeding pair does not always have the same phenotypic result.


And a little later on...



> In dogs testicular neoplasia is as much as 13 times more likely to develop in undescended than in descended testes.


From Small Animal Internal Medicine 4th Edition (2009), edited by Nelson and Cuoto. Pages 970-971


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## Benjamin Allanson

I'm curious what the stats are for a dog to develop cancer in that undescended testicle in the first place.


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## Benjamin Allanson

Thanks for the good posts kadi and maren


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## Maren Bell Jones

Benjamin Allanson said:


> I'm curious what the stats are for a dog to develop cancer in that undescended testicle in the first place.


Do you mean in the descended testis? The text goes on to say...



> Testicular tumors are very common in dogs older than 10 years of age, second only to skin tumors.


If you'd like a number (which it does not give), I'll have to go digging further. It'd be difficult to estimate in a pet population nowadays since so many dogs are neutered by the age they tend to show up.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

What is the reason for your question ? Do you have a dog with one ball you want to breed to ?


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## Jerry Lyda

This is a good thread.

I'm assuming because I don't know and I admit that.

If this is genetic, then wouldn't all dogs carry this gene and in most of them it don't come out into the offspring??? Like bad hips you can breed two dogs that are excellent and still get bad hips in a pup or two. Can you EVER breed a fault completely out of dogs?


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## Benjamin Allanson

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Do you mean in the descended testis? The text goes on to say...
> 
> 
> 
> If you'd like a number (which it does not give), I'll have to go digging further. It'd be difficult to estimate in a pet population nowadays since so many dogs are neutered by the age they tend to show up.


I mean of all the dogs that do have cryptorchidism of some sort; how many of those dogs do develop cancer as a result of the condition? Wondering if their is a percentage out their that has actual evidence behind it. Dig away :razz:


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## Benjamin Allanson

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is the reason for your question ? Do you have a dog with one ball you want to breed to ?


I do have a dog with only one descended teste. I dont have any plans to breed him. I was curious on the subject, and especially after that brother sister breeding topic I figured I would check and see what breeders thought on this subject. 

Common sense would tell me no way its genetic and will pass on. But I would have thought the same thing about a brother sister breeding. Lots of genetic problems could pop up there also, but i saw a few people post up that they might do it under certain circumstances. Was just looking for more info on the subject as my dog has it. Sucks because I really like my dog and it would have been nice to atleast have the option of breeding him in the future. Im not the type that would just breed any two dogs without either working with an experienced breeder or doing lots and lots of research.


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## Maren Bell Jones

There's a very specific sequence of actions via both hormonal and mechanical actions that has to happen in the fetus and neonate to accomplish the descent of the testis. Things of this nature are usually either environmental or genetic or a combination of the two. Why would common sense tell you it's not genetic?


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## Doug Matson

Jerry Lyda said:


> Can you EVER breed a fault completely out of dogs?


The only way to eliminate a genetic fault in this day and age is to find the genetic marker and the mode of inheritance. Then test the dogs and only breed animals free of the genetic defect whether expressed or carrier. So far, I do not believe we have the mode of inheritance, a genetic marker, or test.



Benjamin Allanson said:


> Common sense would tell me no way its genetic and will pass on.


I have been breeding high quality Dobermans since the mid '70s. In that time, it has always been suspected that monorchidism/cryptorchidism was genetic, but as I note, there is no test for it. However, over the years there have been quite a few stud dogs and bloodlines that have had a reputation for frequently producing puppies with testicle issues, while others seemed to never produce puppies with the same issues. Yes, it very well, and probably does, involve the bitch as well, but because of the many more breedings of males it is much easier to track males that produce this problem. The bitches could also be daughters of these sires that produced testicle issues.


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## Benjamin Allanson

Maren Bell Jones said:


> There's a very specific sequence of actions via both hormonal and mechanical actions that has to happen in the fetus and neonate to accomplish the descent of the testis. Things of this nature are usually either environmental or genetic or a combination of the two. Why would common sense tell you it's not genetic?


Sorry for that confusion. Their should be a comma after "no way" lol. I was trying to communicate that my common sense tells me that you should not breed, as it is a genetic trait and will pass on to offspring.


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## Howard Knauf

Percy Longfellow said:


> What a strange question. Of course not. I suspect you need to learn more about genetics and heritability, Mr. Empey.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel


 What a nut job.

Testes, testes...one,two.....three?:razz:


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## Bob Scott

Christopher Jones said:


> One of the greatest Greyhound producers ever in the world was a dog called "Brett Lee". He was bred here in Australia and I think from memory some 80% of his offspring won at the track. His stud fee was $8800. He only had one testicle and man did that little ball get worked hard.
> I spoke to the Greyhound breeders about breeding to him with one nut and they just commented that they are all about producing the fastest dogs. I guess this could also go for producing the best police dogs, or sport dogs.
> For me if a stud dog came along that was similar to Brett Lee in producing 80% of his ofspring as tough Police dogs, I would have to seriously consider it.
> I was actually told by a qualified Genetist that the gene from missing nut can come from the female as much as the male. So it pretty hard to check your female to see if she carries this gene.



Understandable in that a racing greyhounds working/winning career is short and cancer in later life probably isn't a concern.
If they don't win they usually have a short life expectancy. Thus the reason for Greyhound rescue.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

There is some studies that say there is a higher level of aggression in a dog that is crypto. 

For me, it would have to be a HELL of a dog, and not some normal dog to even think about breeding it. 

I believe it is genetic, and two recessives make a dominant. So, the entire litter would have to not breed for it not to pass on.

Plus, I am not sure how many people would want a dog from a crypto, as just like you, they might want to breed it. If you just want a pup for yourself, then just pick one at birth, and snap the rest of them.

The inbreeding thread is different, and I am going to say this as you brought this up based on a "taboo" that carries over from human mythology of our folks that live in the hills. What you are asking is completely different from that. You are asking about breeding a KNOWN defect, and she is breeding two dogs that have as far as she said, no known defects.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There is some studies that say there is a higher level of aggression in a dog that is crypto.


Compared to normal intact males with descended testes? The cryptorchid testis is much more likely to have a Sertoli cell tumor, which secretes estrogen and which is why cryptorchid males can exhibit feminization.



> I believe it is genetic, and two recessives make a dominant.


Nope, not how it works.  Wish to try again?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Whatever Maren, we are not breeding mice here. 

Regale us with some stories of your mouse breeding days would you.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Awww, now Jeff, don't be sore because you don't get 9th grade level biology. Want me to explain it for you?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Show us what you can produce. I know a lot of vets that are breeders. Not impressive at all.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Lame deflection to hide your lack of understanding of very basic genetics, Jeff. You said:



> I believe it is genetic, and two recessives make a dominant.


That is incorrect. Two recessives do not make a trait dominant. Try again. At least look it up for yourself so you know.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Maren, Jeff, chill out: use the ignore button, thank you in advance.


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## Maren Bell Jones

I'm not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing. I am interested that someone that breeds dogs understand the terminology of basic genetics.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

And I want to see what all your knowledge will produce. Start breeding, according to your posts, it should be spectacular.


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## maggie fraser

Where's Don ???


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## Benjamin Allanson

im going to start a new line of one testicled freaks


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## Maren Bell Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> And I want to see what all your knowledge will produce. Start breeding, according to your posts, it should be spectacular.


You won't see me breeding any time soon for the same reason you won't see me on the podium any time soon. Too busy investing in all this training for my career. Besides, even if I did have a small amount of time to commit to a litter, it'd only be like one a year or less. Not really enough to really influence a gene pool. *shrug* I'd rather help other folks, including breeders as theriogenology is a favorite subject of mine. I'm doing my therio term paper/presentation on canine AI (vaginal vs. transcervial vs. surgical). So helping folks includes understanding terms of genetics if you're going to use them...so did you figure out the answer yet?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

That is awesome ! You are going to help people ! ! ! !

I don't really care what the books say. They are just theory when it comes to anything but color. You will never realize this, as you just quote what they say, another repeater.


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## Ashley Campbell

Benjamin Allanson said:


> im going to start a new line of one testicled freaks


Here comes Johnny with his pecker in his hand, he's a one-balled man and he's off to the rodeo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX6ggRByE8g


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## Maren Bell Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> That is awesome ! You are going to help people ! ! ! !
> 
> I don't really care what the books say. They are just theory when it comes to anything but color. You will never realize this, as you just quote what they say, another repeater.


Except that's the thing about science...it does tend to need to be repeatable. Not just repeated. ;-)


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## Christopher Jones

What if the dogs only ball is a really big one? Does that make up for not having two? :-\"


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## will fernandez

Or for that matter if the dog has a an extra functioning teste would you breed it. I heard that 3 balled men were faster and more aggressive.


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## Nicole Stark

will fernandez said:


> I heard that 3 balled men were faster and more aggressive.


It's probably just an illusion from the sack of marbles they got swinging around when they're getting at it. :-$


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## Bob Scott

will fernandez said:


> Or for that matter if the dog has a an extra functioning teste would you breed it. I heard that 3 balled men were faster and more aggressive.


:-k Doesn't three balls usually mean they are good at getting a lot more then they paid for? :-k


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## Shade Whitesel

I had a cryptorchid ( I know I misspelled it!) male who lived to be 3.5 years old. His testosterone levels were completely normal, he never got cancer in his short little life, he was a working fiend. Point is, there might be lots of other nasty health stuff linked to the fact of undecended testicles. The verterinary internist said it had to do with midline development. Which was why the dog was also born without a prostate, bloated and twisted his stomach at age 2 years and finally died of a twisted intestine. Marion? Any thoughts over connections?
I am not a breeder so I don't have to make these sorts of decisions, but we might want to consider not breeding combinations of male/female that have produced some genetic traits.


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## Thomas Barriano

Shade Whitesel said:


> I had a cryptorchid ( I know I misspelled it!) male who lived to be 3.5 years old. His testosterone levels were completely normal, he never got cancer in his short little life, he was a working fiend. Point is, there might be lots of other nasty health stuff linked to the fact of undecended testicles. The verterinary internist said it had to do with midline development. Which was why the dog was also born without a prostate, bloated and twisted his stomach at age 2 years and finally died of a twisted intestine. Marion? Any thoughts over connections?
> I am not a breeder so I don't have to make these sorts of decisions, but we might want to consider not breeding combinations of male/female that have produced some genetic traits.


Hi Shade

Actually I think you spelled it right 
My wife had a mini poodle (many years ago) with one testicle that didn't come into the sac. We took him to a vet who pulled it down with forceps and stitched it into place. He did fine until he got stolen out of the front yard.


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio

Thomas Barriano said:


> My wife had a mini poodle (many years ago) with one testicle that didn't come into the sac. .


is his name Thomas, AKA towel boy?


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## Thomas Barriano

Dominic D'Ambrosio said:


> is his name Thomas, AKA towel boy?


His registered name was Dominic but his call name was Chrissy Po


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio

Thomas Barriano said:


> His registered name was Dominic but his call name was Chrissy Po


????? You are retarded for sure.


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## Thomas Barriano

Dominic D'Ambrosio said:


> ????? You are retarded for sure.


FINALLY Dominic weighs in on a topic he has some expertise in,
Retardation


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio

Thomas Barriano said:


> FINALLY Dominic weighs in on a topic he has some expertise in,
> Retardation


Oh so clever


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## Sarah ten Bensel

Shade Whitesel said:


> I had a cryptorchid ( I know I misspelled it!) male who lived to be 3.5 years old. His testosterone levels were completely normal, he never got cancer in his short little life, he was a working fiend. Point is, there might be lots of other nasty health stuff linked to the fact of undecended testicles. The verterinary internist said it had to do with midline development. Which was why the dog was also born without a prostate, bloated and twisted his stomach at age 2 years and finally died of a twisted intestine. Marion? Any thoughts over connections?
> I am not a breeder so I don't have to make these sorts of decisions, but we might want to consider not breeding combinations of male/female that have produced some genetic traits.


 
Damn that is scary! My Pele has an undescended testicle. I won't breed him. But I will have the undecended removed and a vasectomy done on the other. How long should I wait? He's 16 months right now and the undescended is easily palpated by the inguinal ring. I was thinking of doing it after his second birthday - any thoughts?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

If it is right there, just have it brought down.


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## Don Turnipseed

You people are making me nervous. I just when out and looked at this German pup. I got hands with the sensitivity of clubs....but I think I felt both of them. Thank god! LOL After looking, I do think the maturation is different for sure between this pup and my dogs. Rolling the dog over on his back, there is absolutely nothing visible...that scared me because he is going on 5 1/2 mo and they are about the size of a pea. Many of mine are breed ready somewhere around 7 mo. I don't think this one will be ready. Sorry, off topic. No I wouldn't breed a monorchid.


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## Nicole Stark

I don't know why Don but your post was a bit funny. I hope his peas at least get grape sized soon. ha ha. Who knows though, I've heard that small berries can be genetic. I really didn't "hear" that, I read it some place and I think more than once.


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