# Question on getting the next dog



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

So the plans are *not sooner *than mid to late 2012 for my next cadaver dog. Decided to stick with GSD.

I would appreciate suggestions -
*when should I start my search
*appropriate age range to ensure soundness but young enough to integrate at home
*Sources? (Eurosport is one, but others?)

Really like what I currently have.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/460211.html

I would be looking for a male, I think: Currently have a spayed female who is female agressive in the house but likes males. I actually prefer the company of male dogs and my working male gets along fine with other dogs. 

I would not want to neuter the new dog, though since Grim is pushing 8, I may neuter him to fend off future prostate cancer issues. He apparently is NOT producing sperm (we checked at the vet as we were thinking of breeding him)

I would still not leave two males unsupervised but would like to be comfortable with them out together with me (really don't want to shuttle dogs that hate each other and always be worrying about an accident)

So the suggestion was to get a puppy but how old could I go? I would like something more than a "crapshoot" especially since, while I could rehome a dog with inadequate drive, it would be harder to do that with a dysplastic dog and would PTS a nervebag.


Things I would want to find.

-Excellent drives for detection work
-Toy driven
-Sound structure. Prefer well muscled dog
-Rock solid nerves
-Not dog agressive
-Small is Fine
-Lack of fight drives is ok (or a very high threshold)-I do NOT want a particularly reactive dog...and have no problem with someones washout provided the other "stuff" is there.
-Off switch
-I guess what I hear called "genetic obedience"-


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

thats your first mistake is sticking with a GSD JK, why did you decide to not go with a Mal or DS for the longevity of life and the longevity of each individual job especially here in SC in the summer?


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## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

What about a dog from Mike Suttle's program?
I don't know him but have liked everything I have heard.

It's possible one that is not suitable for his contracts might be perfect for you and he would have already have tested nerves etc.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I know that one of my teammates is going to talk with Mike .... I am definitely open....there is something I can't quite articulate about the GSD that I really seem to prefer........But, then, most the mals I have seen have been too edgy for me .... so that may be the wrong presentement.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I know that one of my teammates is going to talk with Mike .... I am definitely open....there is something I can't quite articulate about the GSD that I really seem to prefer........But, then, most the mals I have seen have been too edgy for me .... so that may be the wrong presentement.


You can get a GSD as well from Mike, pretty sure you knew that already but figured I throw that in there. Not all mals are edgy but can have a edge if need be to turn on and off for work, its all in the imprinting and training. I could show you a Mal that I own that you pretty much be like dam thats a mal when hes not working and then put him in work mode and you be like dam. Let me know if your interested in taking me up on that offer.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I will take you up on that when I get back. I would love to see it...........I have a whole year before I get the next dog so I really want to learn and be objective.

Honestly I am open to crosses .. I have even thought about (ssssh a lab)..... will also talk with Micky J (NAPWDA) I think she has gone back to the Mals. But she had a lab a "stinkin lab" as she would say.......


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I will take you up on that when I get back. I would love to see it...........I have a whole year before I get the next dog so I really want to learn and be objective.
> 
> Honestly I am open to crosses .. I have even thought about (ssssh a lab)..... will also talk with Micky J (NAPWDA) I think she has gone back to the Mals.


Hit me up when you get back, just remember hes not a SAR dog but for having a edge you will see for yourself what I'm talking about.8)


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> thats your first mistake is sticking with a GSD JK, why did you decide to not go with a Mal or DS for the longevity of life and the longevity of each individual job especially here in SC in the summer?


WTF are you talking about Harry you need to get out more if you think every thing you have just stated is fact. How damn long have you been around and been training these breeds and how many thousands of man hours have you spent training and helping people train these dogs to do what ever it is......
One fact I can tell you that I know and have seen over and over and will keep on seeing. I will call it fast a fuse, a very simple analogy.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> WTF are you talking about Harry you need to get out more if you think every thing you have just stated is fact. How damn long have you been around and been training these breeds and how many thousands of man hours have you spent training and helping people train these dogs to do what ever it is......
> One fact I can tell you that I know and have seen over and over and will keep on seeing. I will call it fast a fuse, a very simple analogy.


Mike one thing is for sure is I from the north and have live in the south now and also travel the east coast and some states of the eastern sea board. There is a obvious difference in the three breeds from the northen to the southern states come mid summer. More so the GSD than the other two even ones that are conditioned for the different climates. Thats a fact sir wheter you relise it or not, unless you have lived and traveled as much as I have up and down the coast consistantly for years and not just made a pit stop for a visit or trial then stay a open minded. I have owned all the breeds and enough of good genetic ones to make a statement. Obviously your a GSD man which is cool, but how many mali or DS have you owned to dispute that these are good breeds as well and myabe better depending on overall application depending on differing factors. 

Don't get so quick to get offended because I said there is other breeds out there other than the GSD, nobody is saying the GSD is no good, but there are people saying that theres more than one breed to choose from:-o, so calm down fella.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Mike one thing is for sure is I from the north and have live in the south now and also travel the east coast and some states of the eastern sea board. There is a obvious difference in the three breeds from the northen to the southern states come mid summer. More so the GSD than the other two even ones that are conditioned for the different climates. Thats a fact sir wheter you relise it or not, unless you have lived and traveled as much as I have up and down the coast consistantly for years and not just made a pit stop for a visit or trial then stay a open minded. I have owned all the breeds and enough of good genetic ones to make a statement. Obviously your a GSD man which is cool, but how many mali or DS have you owned to dispute that these are good breeds as well and myabe better depending on overall application depending on differing factors.
> 
> Don't get so quick to get offended because I said there is other breeds out there other than the GSD, nobody is saying the GSD is no good, but there are people saying that theres more than one breed to choose from:-o, so calm down fella.


The temp dont matter.:-k


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> The temp dont matter.:-k


Mike I am only in my mid thirties, so heres me having a open mind then. I am always open to factual propaganda sir. How can you tell me that a dog will work the same in the hot summer than in the cold winter, or even the southern's 100's plus versus the northern 70's on the same day. 

Please do explain your methology on this one, I promise to be politically correct and open minded to your thinking and explanation and not rude??? If you can prove it your theory with facts I will not post another thing regardings this SPECIFIC thread8)


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Mike I am only in my mid thirties, so heres me having a open mind then. I am always open to factual propaganda sir. How can you tell me that a dog will work the same in the hot summer than in the cold winter, or even the southern's 100's plus versus the northern 70's on the same day.
> 
> Please do explain your methology on this one, I promise to be politically correct and open minded to your thinking and explanation and not rude??? If you can prove it your theory with facts I will not post another thing regardings this SPECIFIC thread8)


Proper conditioning and physical fitness then temperature and humidity will not be such a factor for any breed, but the difference between and mal, gsd, or striped dog...there is absolutely no difference


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Nancy may get my analogie reference to fast fuse regarding different breeds of dog. Ill toss another breed of dog for you to negate for this job Harry how about the Labrador
Hell Ill add some of the little Terrier dogs too


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Out of the PSD's I see on a regular basis in Savannah, regardless of the breed, it is usually the ones with the big wide head and heavier bone that suffer the most in the heat and humidity. The small heads thinner boned dogs appear to deal with it better.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

When - Start looking now! It doesn't mean you have to get one but get a lot of ideas on what's out there.
Age - I LOVE working with puppies but an older dog (raised correctly) shouldn't be a problem. I think some folks would be suprised how quickly a dog will change loyalties/masters/owners. A little time to get acquainted with "you feed me, I'm yours" works pretty dern good. Ask any K9 LEO that got his/her dog at 1 1/2 - 2yrs old.
Where from - I've never seen anyone disappointed with anything from EuroSport...but they ain't cheap!

I like your selection criteria.
What you refer to as "genetic obedience" TO "ME" translates to a natural retrieve. That's shows the willingness to work with a human or good pack behavior if you prefer. I've ALWAYS found that the pups I've seleted for with some form of natural retrieve as being easier to train. JMHO, of course! :wink:


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> When - Start looking now! It doesn't mean you have to get one but get a lot of ideas on what's out there.
> Age - I LOVE working with puppies but an older dog (raised correctly) shouldn't be a problem. I think some folks would be suprised how quickly a dog will change loyalties/masters/owners. A little time to get acquainted with "you feed me, I'm yours" works pretty dern good. Ask any K9 LEO that got his/her dog at 1 1/2 - 2yrs old.
> Where from - I've never seen anyone disappointed with anything from EuroSport...but they ain't cheap!
> 
> ...


I got my current dog at two and I have never been more bonded to any dog. He was "my" dog within a few days. I have never had to even put a prong on this dog. I like that a lot. 

am also trying to figure the best age to integrate into the home structure, else I would just take a young adult and maybe I will. I remember once being told it would be better there to bring a puppy in to my house than an adult..Yeah, I know, I live with my dogs and they are outside a lot for temperature acclimitization but still chill with me in the house a good bit too.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I guess that is a twist too.
If he were a K9 for a police department he would probably be working 5 days a week all day.

Figure a civilian volunteer.....we train about 30 minutes most days and several hours Sat and Sun

We are only getting 15 to 20 calls for HR a year which is fine for us---it is a niche thing---not enough to justify a full time cadaver dog for most departments and a service

I would not have a problem with a police dog being a kennel dog as it is getting tons of interaction and stimulation during the day but for a home volunteer dog I think it is different.......


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Nancy may get my analogie reference to fast fuse regarding different breeds of dog. Ill toss another breed of dog for you to negate for this job Harry how about the Labrador
> Hell Ill add some of the little Terrier dogs too


For detection not fond of the GSD nor the lab but both are good working dogs depending on the individual dog Mike, as far as terriers I'm sure theres some out there but have no real experience with them to really open my mouth about them. So Mike on that note not to be rude, lets leave it at the fact of you have your opinion and I have mine instead of going round and round like two yo-yo's and ruining anothers thread.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Nancy like I said earlier in the thread if your interested in seeing a nice mali let me know and we will try to hook up to do so.:wink:


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