# border collie or aussie breeder



## Sarah Atlas (Dec 15, 2008)

Hi folks,
i have a client looking for top working lines. wants a dog to work cattle on her ranch. Can anyone suggest a breeder of top working lines from either of the above breeds?


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## Jenna Lea (Jul 25, 2010)

For ranch work I would think you find someone using working cattle dogs, these people often don't have websites or such.

One person I know of that is highly regarded at least in competition circles is Janice DeMello. Her herding experience may be competition centered I don't know, what I do know is if you want OTCH or MACH potential Border Collies she's your person. She's the originator of the "around the clock" method of scent discrimination trainining for the UD scent exercise. Her dogs are bred under the moniker "Hob Nob"

http://www.jandemellobordercollie.com/Hob_Nob_border_collies/Home.html


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## Mara Jessup (Sep 7, 2010)

If you want a good working BC, for the most part you do best to stay away from AKC breeders. Most serious working breeders do not register with the AKC. 

THe place I would probably start looking if I wanted a pup would be Fieldstone Farm in Virginia. Nice person, dogs work on their farm and compete at top levels regularly in USBCHA trials (gold standard for BCs) Another good way to go about it would be attending a few USBCHA trials. If they wouldn't have a dog for you then they could send you in the right direction.

The Kensmuir.com stockdog forum would also be a good place to check out they have litter announcements/dogs for sale listed there from time to time or could point a person in the right direction for their part of the country.

What part of the country is this person in? If I had a location I might be able to make some local suggestions for them to go check out.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

We have a nice working avalanche dog at my resort from this breeder:
http://www.keen-eye.com/index.html
I know her focus is working bc's and she provides bording and training for herding dogs as well. Don't know her personally though.


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## Sarah Atlas (Dec 15, 2008)

Thank you for the referral information. My client is located in Texas (yes, I know it is a big state)


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## Mara Jessup (Sep 7, 2010)

I'd recommend checking out the Texas Sheepdog Association http://www.texassheepdogassoc.org/ 

On the website they also have a classifieds section http://www.texassheepdogassoc.org/classified.html with lots of contact information for working breeders in TX. There is a pretty good trialing/working community in TX. I know Herbert Holmes (listed in the classifieds) is a good trainer and very well respected in working BC circles - he would be the person I'd start my search with if I were in that area looking for a good working cattle/sheepdog. 

I have no experience with Aussies, but Working Aussie source looks like it might be a good place to start if they want to pursue that breed http://www.workingaussiesource.com/


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I REALLy like those little cattle dogs/heelers. Tough as nails.


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## Tracy Davis-Sullivan (May 10, 2010)

Really liked the Red Top dog I met. In fact, it's the frist border collie my wife thought she could live with:

http://www.patrickshannahan.com/

Also a lot of posters here are working sheep dog folks:
http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

www.daltonscowdogs.com

Dalton has sent a lot of dogs to the Waggoner ranch in TX.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

My sheepdog trainer has a super litter about 3 weeks old. From top working dogs imported from the UK.

Carol Campion, Bittersweet Farm. Carol's dogs are worth going out of your area for, believe me.

If your clients are looking for a good trained dog, Carol can help them with that too.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

My herding instructor breeds working BC's under the kennel name Blazin. NOTE: I did a google to find her website and found someone using the name Blazzin, that's not her. Her website is at http://www.actionk9sports.com/ That's her training business website, but it has her contact information, I don't know if she has a site just for the dogs.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I REALLy like those little cattle dogs/heelers. Tough as nails.



I'm inclined to go with Susan's suggestion here. 
Finding a good BC to work cattle isn't as simple as finding a good BC for sheep. Many don't have the courage to work cattle.
Aussies would be better but to may pet/show lines out there.
As others have suggested, find a good WORKING ( not herding trial ) breeder that has experience with cattle dogs.
Herding titles (as any other) can be deceiving as to a dogs true abilities.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> I'm inclined to go with Susan's suggestion here.
> Finding a good BC to work cattle isn't as simple as finding a good BC for sheep. Many don't have the courage to work cattle.
> Aussies would be better but to may pet/show lines out there.
> As others have suggested, find a good WORKING ( not herding trial ) breeder that has experience with cattle dogs.
> Herding titles (as any other) can be deceiving as to a dogs true abilities.


 
Many border collies do have the courage to work cattle, Bob. To me, it all depends on whether people are looking for a dog to work in pens and just do a simple "bite and follow" thing or if they actually need an intelligent capable dog to gather and help with more complex livestock work.

The reference I gave is a person who knows working border collie folks all over the U.S and throughout the UK. Believe me, if her litter isn't bred suitably for cattle work, she will be the first to say so and to help find someone who does have a suitable litter or trained dog. I rarely give references because I can't be bothered with most breeders in the U.S. However, my reference is to a person whom I regard as highly as anyone I have ever known.


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## Lauren Rainbolt (Jul 28, 2010)

look for Slash V, Las Rosca, etc. lines. Those are the working lines if you look at pedigrees. 

Here is Slash V:

http://users.htcomp.net/slashv/home.htm

I really like the look of their dogs. look like the old working dogs; small, compact, and tough as nails. 


or look at National Stock Dog Registry's site and see if there are any breeders on there.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Bob,

Look at Wayne's dogs. They work cattle. A couple of Wayne's have had a little too much bite for sheep. There are BC lines more developed for cattle work. 

T


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Bob,
> 
> Look at Wayne's dogs. They work cattle. A couple of Wayne's have had a little too much bite for sheep. There are BC lines more developed for cattle work.
> 
> T


Wayne's little girl is probably one of the toughest BCs I've seen on cattle and she's what, 30 lbs at best. She has more fight then a lot of cattle dogs I've seen. He won a trial with her this spring ? and he drew a set that ran most of the dogs that day. 
They are out there, I would just think the odds are against many BC to do good cow work.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Well there are breeds/dogs out there other than the BC that are intelligent capable gathering dogs able to do more complex livestock work. And they are capable of more than just bite and follow and aren't limited to small pen work.


Terrasita


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## Rachel Schumacher (Oct 11, 2006)

Slash V Aussies would be my choice too! As for Border Collies working cattle you want to get to know the breeder and the lines of his dogs. My preference for Border Collies are the ones from Wales (UK) but most of them work sheep. Do not and never choose an AKC dog: ASCA for Aussies, ABCA or ISDS or the Collies.


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## Mara Jessup (Sep 7, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> They are out there, I would just think the odds are against many BC to do good cow work.


 Not so much once you get into the serious working lines that are raised by people who actually use them on a day to day basis. The USBCHA holds both sheep and cattle dog finals every year Sure lots of BCs don't have what it takes to work cattle but, as the breed has become much more popular in the last 10-15 years, lots of them really don't have the ability to work sheep like they should be able to. I wouldn't buy a BC for anything (stockwork, SAR, sports) unless I first saw that the parents were tough, drivey and willing to take on a wide variety of challenges working stock.

Lots of farm and ranch work just with sheep can take a really mentally tough dog, too. Ewes with lambs can be really tough critters. I've got a little 30# BC that is really a bit much for my sheep - keen and drivey as all get out and kind of likes to bite first and ask questions later :roll:. He came from a working farm. Parents/grandparents were either imported or came from ranches out west. His main job is SAR right now.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Kent Kuykendall in NC has great Border Collies and has been involved in the BC trials for years. The family has also had a strong name in BCs.


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## Tony McCallum (May 26, 2009)

There are a lot of people in Texas that work dogs on ranches, l would think most sale barns you would see some folks with dogs, go watch some work cattle on a ranch, and pick a type that suits how you work your cattle. l would not bother with herding or agility dogs etc.
When you want cattle worked, look for people that work cattle. They will have dogs that can get your job done. BC's , Aussies, Hangin Trees , Curs there are all sorts out there, but dont read the websites, go see some dogs working cows. l suppose it depends if your client has a small place with a few head, then it may not be a big deal, but if there is tough work ahead, you need dogs selected by cattle work, whatever the breed.
regards Tony


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I think Tony has it about right. My mom raises BC's to help with the horses. Doesn't sell them or advertise, just keeps what she wants to use as needed - No papers, no herding titles, etc. But boy can they work.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm with Tony. For my dogs I've told people, if you really want to see them work, watch me do chores at the farm---not so much a trial, particularly AKC. With AHBA you'll see some relevance with the sorts, pens, chutes, etc. If I were personally lookin at a dog, I either want to watch it work either at the farm/ranch or I want to see the raw dog before training. There are people out there that are completely outside of the trialing scheme that develop dogs for ranch/farm work. As for the registry, I've seen the good, bad, ugly from them all. You need the ability to know stock dog traits when you see them and select for them. I don't really care what registry they come from. Like Tony said, keep an open mind and go look for the dog that fits you and the type of work you need done.

Terrasita


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Well, relative to protection sports at least you can get a fantastic border collie with sides on it and more for a fairly reasonable price. One thing to remember is that if you have children around the place it's smart to look into the dog's attitude toward kids. You can get a a goodun that also won't bite the baby, if you remember to ask.


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