# Hot Spots



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

...and we're not talking about bars or love areas people! Any good treatments and hair regrowth ideas? :mrgreen:


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

Apple cider vinegar taken internally 20ml , also ACV sprayed on the effected area. Howard can i say this stuff is magic, please try it you wont regret it.

But get the natural stuff that still has the Mother in it


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> ...and we're not talking about bars or love areas people! Any good treatments and hair regrowth ideas? :mrgreen:


Hot spots are a symptom. What is the cause?


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Gold Bond medicated powder works well. 

Personally I think the cause is diet. I haven't seen a hot spot on my dogs in the 3 years we've been feeding raw.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Barrie Kirkland said:


> Apple cider vinegar taken internally 20ml , also ACV sprayed on the effected area. Howard can i say this stuff is magic, please try it you wont regret it.
> 
> But get the natural stuff that still has the Mother in it


The brightest bulb I'm not! *What is apple cider vinegar*? Is it cut with water?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Hot spots are a symptom. What is the cause?


Horny old man I guess is the cause, hot spots are the place Connie. Ok, my female Bouv had a section on her her rib cage w/o hair, size of your hand. Small white bumps and light redness under there. I use Frontline and never see fleas. They stay on a concrete kennel floor that is dry.

Gold Bond?! I don't have the rash you silly thing! Well from the bike ride but that's another issue! :mrgreen:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Has she been actively licking/itching it or does the hair come out on its own?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Dan Long said:


> Gold Bond medicated powder works well.
> 
> Personally I think the cause is diet.


Yes, it can be.

But what is it for the O.P.'s dog?

Allergies, history of fleas (or current fleas), tangles/mats, even OCD. But if there is a bacterial component, and there often is, then moist eczema (summer sores, hot spots) needs careful treatment.

One fleeting hot spot is one thing, but recurring hot spots mean that there's an underlying issue that needs to be addressed.

Here's a quick overview:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&articleid=447


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> ... my female Bouv had a section on her her rib cage w/o hair, size of your hand. Small white bumps and light redness under there.


Did you clip and treat it? (That's a typical spot.)


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Did you clip and treat it? (That's a typical spot.)


Connie it was a one time deal and the vet sold me this stuff called NeoPred Powder, $17.00 for about an ounce.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Connie it was a one time deal and the vet sold me this stuff called NeoPred Powder, $17.00 for about an ounce.


That sounds like antibiotic (Neosporin) plus steroids (Prednisone).

Did you have to clip first?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

So you are looking for hair re-growth rather than hot spot treatment, right?

The hot spot is gone?

Then


Maren Bell Jones said:


> [Was she] actively licking/itching it or does the hair come out on its own?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> That sounds like antibiotic (Neosporin) plus steroids (Prednisone).
> 
> Did you have to clip first?


I didn't clip, hair growth coming in, and more hair loss are not there. I was shocked that one morning there it was...no diet changes, no known issues, and then a patch of hairless mut! Have you used this stuff before?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I didn't clip, hair growth coming in, and more hair loss are not there. I was shocked that one morning there it was...no diet changes, no known issues, and then a patch of hairless mut! Have you used this stuff before?


No, I haven't used it.

There was never a sore? Just a patch of no hair? Or was there a big sore that the powder worked on, and then when it healed there was no hair?




Edit: The vet who saw this said "hot spot," right?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> No, I haven't used it.
> 
> There was never a sore? Just a patch of no hair? Or there was a big sore that the powder worked on, and then when it healed there was no hair?


No sore, just a few tiny white bumps, the hair is regrowing. Just a patch w/o hair, like she scratched or chewed it...should I feed her more than one time a week? LOL


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> No sore, just a few tiny white bumps, the hair is regrowing. Just a patch w/o hair, like she scratched or chewed it...should I feed her more than one time a week? LOL


But you saw no scratching/chewing, right?

And the vet who saw it said "hot spot"?

I keep asking you stuff because this breed is one that has other forms of alopecia besides "hot spot alopecia."

Also, not sure what you're asking. Treatment? No. It was treated successfully. Hair regrowth? No, it's growing back. 

Prevention is pretty dependent on what the cause was. Hot spots have causes, and alopecia (hair loss) can also be other-than-hotspot-caused.

It would be interesting to know what the vet actually said.


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

/[URL]http://www.crossgatesfarm.co.uk/downloads/acv_all.pdf[/URL]

i can assure you this stuff works like a dream, i am a doubter as well , but used it on an older dog who has bad skin on his underside, hairloss etc, cleared up what tablets couldnt .

I give it to all my dogs for vitality now


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm not a doubter. I like ACV. 

It wouldn't do much for the many hereditary kinds of alopecia, though.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Barrie, I thankyou for the tip, I am going to try ACV on a female gsd-her skin is just a MESS!!..our DVM currently have her on Temaril, which he is not to thrilled about using, he feels it is very hard on the dogs system, but seems to be the only thing that has given her any relief. Where do you get the type you are talking about,the non-pastuerized- can I find it at the grocery store? thanks Mo


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mo Earle said:


> Barrie, I thankyou for the tip, I am going to try ACV on a female gsd-her skin is just a MESS!!..our DVM currently have her on Temaril, which he is not to thrilled about using, he feels it is very hard on the dogs system, but seems to be the only thing that has given her any relief. Where do you get the type you are talking about,the non-pastuerized- can I find it at the grocery store? thanks Mo


Temaril? 

What was the diagnosis?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mo Earle said:


> the non-pastuerized- can I find it at the grocery store? thanks Mo


Some health foods stores have it. (Jarrow brand is the one where I shop.)

http://www.nextag.com/JARROW-Apple-Cider-Vinegar-604919030/prices-html

http://www.healthmart2000.com/item602.htm


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

in the UK is readily available in equestrian shops, they would be a good port of call. If you google it with regard to dogs you will get lots of info


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

;-)thanks!! mo


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

sorry Connie, just saw your question- Allergic dermatitis...which we feel is related to Bahia grass...which we only have 4 acres of, and 1 acre of St.augustine-we didn't actually do the skin test, our Vet feels the cost of it outways it's benefit..and I didn't insist on it, as I don't need to be spending money we don't have...initially we changed her food...just feeding her salmon and fish based foods, we had her on benedryl,, claritan, prednisone etc...and other assorted meds...when she is confined to the cement kennel run...of course she does better...but I can't just keep her in prison....we have tried all kinds of medicated baths..shaved her almost bald at one point to help clear her up...she is only a year and half..I feel so bad for her...she has to be miserable. So I think I will give this ACV a try and open to suggestions...Mo


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Mo, you may also try vitamin C, as it's a natural antihistamine. 1000-2000 mg of ester C a day should be fine for a shepherd sized dog.

Howard, sometimes you also have to stop the licking behavior as well by putting an e-collar on them (an Elizabethan collar, not a shock collar!) until it clears up because they can start licking for relief and not stop. My oldest male does this and licks a patch clean off his side. It can end up like cribbing in horses where the endorphins just get going and they won't stop. Buck's pupils actually will dilate when he starts licking himself. Or my husband after he works out. :roll:


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi:

We have two bouvs, ages 4 & 12. Over the years we've seen hot spots here and there. For Thor [male], it could be related to food and Khira, around a season. Usually they scratch at it and it becomes a red weeping sore. My magic cure is Sulfadene from WalMart. Usually one application clears it up. Presumedly, it stops itching and the dogs quit scratching. Thor is 12 and I can think of a couple of hot spots over the course of 12 years. Recently, I came home from work and he had scratched his face raw. The vet was sure it was an insect bite. That took longer to clear up and he even wore an Elizabethan collar. If I had a dog with ongoing patchy hairloss and it wasn't the typical hotspot presentation, I would do a Michigan or Jean Dodds thyroid panel--particularly with a bouvier.


Terrasita


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

So will ACV regrow hair? For a skull my size, one pint OK?


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Howard Gaines III;82241
Gold Bond?! I don't have the rash you silly thing! Well from the bike ride but that's another issue! :mrgreen:[/quote said:


> I'm completely serious. We shaved the area, about 2 days of gold bond, it was dried up and healing.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mo Earle said:


> sorry Connie, just saw your question- Allergic dermatitis...which we feel is related to Bahia grass...which we only have 4 acres of, and 1 acre of St.augustine-we didn't actually do the skin test, our Vet feels the cost of it outways it's benefit..and I didn't insist on it, as I don't need to be spending money we don't have...initially we changed her food...just feeding her salmon and fish based foods, we had her on benedryl,, claritan, prednisone etc...and other assorted meds...when she is confined to the cement kennel run...of course she does better...but I can't just keep her in prison....we have tried all kinds of medicated baths..shaved her almost bald at one point to help clear her up...she is only a year and half..I feel so bad for her...she has to be miserable. So I think I will give this ACV a try and open to suggestions...Mo


The skin tests are expensive indeed. I've done them (and of course the desensitizing injections that are made up by the lab or derm vet that processes the tests) with success, but it was for dogs in extremely bad shape from (as it turned out) over 30 "severe" allergies each.

Benadryl is historically a fairly poor canine performer, but hydroxyzine and chlorpheniramine (with fish oil and E) have pretty good track records. (Under 50% respond to antihistamines successfully.)

The next dime I spent, though, on a dog like that (shaved, miserable, etc.) would be for a derm vet. GP vets usually do not, really cannot, have the experience and knowledge for this. 

It took me many years and a lot of wasted money to find that out.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mo Earle said:


> we didn't actually do the skin test, our Vet feels the cost of it outways it's benefit..


I was even told that the ELISA and RAST tests were "just as good" --- by the vet who happened to DO the ELISA and RAST tests but not the intradermal. (This was years ago, but it's just as common now.)

Even was told that they "worked" for food allergies, too.

None of this is remotely true, I found out lots of money later.


sigh


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

> _
> Benadryl is historically a fairly poor canine performer, but hydroxyzine and chlorpheniramine (with fish oil and E) have pretty good track records. (Under 50% respond to antihistamines successfully.)_[/quote
> 
> 
> ...


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

When we've dealt with a hotspot, the hair started growing back immediately after it healed and the dog quit scratching. I use ACV in the summer/fall to help ward off critters. The dogs don't mind it in their food. I've been able to find it in grocery stores and the health food store.

Terrasita


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mo Earle said:


> > .... we are currently giving her fish oil and vitamin E caps...I really appreciate all the info offered here.
> >
> >
> > and thankyou Maren, I will try the ester C. - Mo
> ...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

P.S. I'd use a gram (1000 mg) of fish oil per ten pounds of dog.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

since we have been chatting here- we have been giving chey. her fish oils, ester c, and have used ACV..I have to say yesterday and today seem to be the first two days she has not been fire red...she is still scratching a little...I will also start rinsing her off especially after she has been running around outside, and in the evening. Thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge...I really think it IS helping. Mo


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## Andrew Rowley (Nov 3, 2008)

Hi, i have just come across this for the first time, also known as wet ezcema. Noticed my rott licking the top of my berene's neck, On closer inspection it was weeping.
Took her to the vet who shaved her and it showed a patch the size of my fist weeping. So tender to the touch bless her.
He gave me Fuciderm gel to be admin twice a day for 7 days and prednisolone 25mg tablets, 1 a day for 3 days then half a tablet for 3 days.
Seems to be clearing up. has gone to a hard dry crust and shes allot happier.
really shocked at how agressive it spreads, one min it was fine the next it was there, if it wasnt for the rott whining and licking her i wouldnt have picked up on it.

As for the cause im at a loss. she 12 months old on a raw diet. Only been frontlined a 10 days ago. All i can think is she was playing with a 6 month old pup that day that may have bitten her. hope to god its not one of these allergies, recurring skin probelm. 

Will get some of the acv and add this to her food.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andrew Rowley said:


> .... hope to god its not one of these allergies, recurring skin probelm.


How do the insides of the ears look? No inflammation? 

No paw-licking/biting? No licking/biting elsewhere?


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## Andrew Rowley (Nov 3, 2008)

Hi Connie. The ears look fine and no ther chewing or licking going on.

To the top of the patch i see little white hrad spots.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andrew Rowley said:


> Hi Connie. The ears look fine and no ther chewing or licking going on.
> 
> To the top of the patch i see little white hrad spots.




Like bumps? Pustules? A whole bunch of tiny ones, or what? "To the top"? You mean closer to the dog's head?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andrew Rowley said:


> The ears look fine and no ther chewing or licking going on.


These are good signs.


No rubbing of the face on carpets or furniture?


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## Andrew Rowley (Nov 3, 2008)

Hi Connie, the spots are hard, no puss i can see. They are just at the top of the now crusty patch at the base of the neck just below the scruff. 
Im thinking puppy teeth marks:-x:-x They were in the garden playing hard and digging, came in filthy and wet. Thinking the 6 month pup bit her hard below the scruff and the damp and dirt allowed the bacteria (they were also both left chewing a rather large beef bone). May of missed them at first as they would have been red and not shown up against the rest of the inflamed skin. Now they have calmed down and gone hard they are easier to see. Just a guess though.
No rubbing or any other signs of irritiation.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I've wondered more than once what the likelihood was of hotspots having a skeletal or nerve related origin. I ask because a chiropractor friend of mine once mentioned that boils often went hand in hand with back issues, things like spasms, ribs being out, pinched nerves, etc often would show up on the surface of the skin. 

I also had a accupunturist tell me that skin issues were indicative of heat beneath the skin. The heat being caused by a disturbance of some sort, usually ugh, I cannot remember what he called it but something related to maybe the chi (?) being blocked. He had this thing that looked like a small torture device, called a plum blossom that they used to release the heat. I guess maybe to achieve a venting sort of effect? I know that seems like a bunch of rambling thoughts but it was something that came to mind. What I mean is, I brought it up because I have often wondered if hot spots are generally related to immune related deficiencies or could they be caused by other, less obvious reasons such as those I mentioned?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Nicole Stark said:


> I've wondered more than once what the likelihood was of hotspots having a skeletal or nerve related origin. I ask because a chiropractor friend of mine once mentioned that boils often went hand in hand with back issues, things like spasms, ribs being out, pinched nerves, etc often would show up on the surface of the skin.
> 
> I also had a accupunturist tell me that skin issues were indicative of heat beneath the skin. The heat being caused by a disturbance of some sort, usually ugh, I cannot remember what he called it but something related to maybe the chi (?) being blocked. He had this thing that looked like a small torture device, called a plum blossom that they used to release the heat. I guess maybe to achieve a venting sort of effect? I know that seems like a bunch of rambling thoughts but it was something that came to mind. What I mean is, I brought it up because I have often wondered if hot spots are generally related to immune related deficiencies or could they be caused by other, less obvious reasons such as those I mentioned?


For western medicine, the thought of being poked with needles and getting relief isn't normal. The "chi" is an energy force or systen within the body. When the chi is out of balance, many things can take place. The "plum blossom" you speak was it a heated needle placed into the skin. If so, the heat is designed to help the body recover from issues within the meridian system


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Yes, that's the explanation he gave. Thank you for clarifying. He used those heated needles on me occasionally during my sessions with him, but it seems his plum blossom looked like a little hammer with about a dozen tacks in it set in a round formation. It worked a little like a meat tenderizer.


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