# Looking for comments and feedback



## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

http://www.angelplace.net/Book/Ch4.pdf


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Jim, I found it to be a well thought out piece in most all respects. A very good read as was your last one. Can't help but appreciate the thought and experience you put into your writing. Not only factual, but a breath of fresh air. Possibly, the only thing we are polar opposites on is breeding. Thanks for the time and effort.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I've only skimmed through it so far, but thanks for sharing!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Jim, how long have you been doing bitework. Just curious because you made reference in the post to the 70's.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Jim, how long have you been doing bitework. Just curious because you made reference in the post to the 70's.


We started training with Northern Illinois Schutzhund Club in '79 or '80,
but had done some obedience training in prior years.

NISC was until recently the second oldest active club in America I think.


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

Are you looking for a technical critique from LEO or are you looking for proofing?

Denise


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

Denise King said:


> Are you looking for a technical critique from LEO or are you looking for proofing?
> 
> Denise


I am looking for any relevant information that will help me in
my research, clarify my statements or correct errors in spelling,
grammar or fact.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nice article!

Best sentence;
"The handler must become the leader". 

I don't believe leadership has to come from power. We have to out think our dogs.
The method is secondary as long as it's applied correctly, IMHO!


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## Derek Milliken (Apr 19, 2009)

I liked it. Well written, well thought out, but I've liked that about most of your articles.
I especially liked that you made no bones of the idea that some of what we look for in working dogs doesn't always make them right for the pet home. Keep the working dogs as just that and keep the pet dogs as just that. God knows there are moments I wish I owned a pet dog, lol.
I'd offer to go look at your grammar and punctuation after a second reading, but I studied science and behavior psych at university. All they asked of me in english was 101.
Best of luck in your new book.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

.... frustrating :-(

every time i click that link all i get is a blank space; nothing opens and no pdf is downloaded .... or anything ???

must be my old Mac or i am doing something really stupid ](*,)


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*Response to Rick Smith*

Rick Smith: The problem is the pdf format, older computers and browser versions often have trouble with this. The Adobe pdf format is very useful in that it allows the presentation of material in book format with foot notes, pages and other features. It requires more powerful computers, more sophisticated software and especially much faster down load speeds. This is a trade off and one of the reasons for soliciting feedback here.

If this turns out to be a serious problem I will need to look into concurrent HTML format files.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*Response to Derek Milliken*

As I have been working on this over the last several years, the conflicts 
between catering to the pet market and the production of effective
police level canines are increasing, and to the detriment of serious 
working dogs.

I am working on the German Shepherd chapter, and the issue is especially
acute here. The contrast between the Malinois evolving as a more or
less pure working dog and the GSD trying to be all things to all people,
with money having the deciding vote, is center stage for working dogs
today.

There is a philosophical and thus political agenda here; I see the 
pussification of Schutzhund as an ongoing process in America and I
see the driving force as the SV. USCA is in the process of transition
from a working dog organization to a German Shepherd sales organization,
and working character is being thrown under the bus in the process.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jim Engel said:


> NISC was until recently the second oldest active club in America I think.


second oldest until recently????


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

Good article Jim and I continue to enjoy the words of a veteran of the Breed/organiztion wars.
Soldier on!


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


> second oldest until recently????



Sad to say, Northern does not seem to appear on either the DVG or USCA
rosters; I hope this is resolved, for I have fond memories of training with
Betty Sagen and Mike Lichtwalt in the early 1980s. These two people
really were among the pioneers!

Where did that 30 years go ?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

*Re: Response to Derek Milliken*

Jim on cell phone and cant view article, 2 questions, is this part of a book u are writing? If so I want a copy.

2. So what if yr correct about gsd below, wont change anything. You will be wrong the most when you are most right.




Jim Engel said:


> As I have been working on this over the last several years, the conflicts
> between catering to the pet market and the production of effective
> police level canines are increasing, and to the detriment of serious
> working dogs.
> ...


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Jim Engel said:


> We started training with Northern Illinois Schutzhund Club in '79 or '80,
> but had done some obedience training in prior years.
> 
> NISC was until recently the second oldest active club in America I think.


Just as a side note..my club (O.G. Ohio Hundesport) is the oldest SchH club in the US that still has the original TD (John Nussbaum).


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

I personally like it by the very fact that you describe compulsion. It seems a word that many can only view one way with no varying degree. I advertise Leadership vs. Dominance and follow that principle. Trying to teach that tearing a dogs head off isn't a correction  can be difficult. I appreciate that you are interested in teaching what's best, just wish everyone could understand. Thanks for the view.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jim Engel said:


> Sad to say, Northern does not seem to appear on either the DVG or USCA
> rosters; I hope this is resolved, for I have fond memories of training with
> Betty Sagen and Mike Lichtwalt in the early 1980s. These two people
> really were among the pioneers!
> ...


they are still operational. with a very large bank as far as I have heard ...I have been there more than a few times. but as a visitor, just working with a guest decoy. not sure of the affiliation currently...but they are around...Chris Olson is the contact there..they are training at the old Lake County Fairgrounds..


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Northern Illinois Schutzhund Club is currently a club in the midwest region on the DVG website.

Per the USCA website they were a formed club in 1980. Thought they went to the GSDCA a few years back.

Oldest Sch club in the US is the Peninsula Canine Corp, they just celebrated 50 years.


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

Jim, 
I wanted to ask also if this will be available in ebook? After reading your bio again & seeing you're a puter dude I was hoping you would? Will you have it finished this month LOL!


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

Steve Estrada said:


> Jim,
> I wanted to ask also if this will be available in ebook? After reading your bio again & seeing you're a puter dude I was hoping you would? Will you have it finished this month LOL!



Yes, probably this will eventually become an E Book.

Right now I am working hard on the German Shepherd chapter,
after all, what's a police dog book that does not really cover
the German Shepherd?

Also, I would like to bring more depth of understanding to the
chapter on police dog applications and deployment, this is 
probably the weakest section of the book right now.

Current versions of four or five chapters are out there:

http://www.angelplace.net/Book/

Comments, public or private, are certainly welcome on any of them.

Also, looking for high quality photos, and do not want to use "show"
pictures any more than necessary.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Mario Fernandez said:


> Northern Illinois Schutzhund Club is currently a club in the midwest region on the DVG website.
> 
> Per the USCA website they were a formed club in 1980. Thought they went to the GSDCA a few years back.
> 
> Oldest Sch club in the US is the Peninsula Canine Corp, they just celebrated 50 years.


Wasn't there an article about Peninsula Canine Corp not too long ago in SchH USA?


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*Opps, sorry about that.*

Reports of the demise of Northern Illinois Club are greatly exaggerated.

Sorry about that, I am glad to discover that I was wrong.

Now then, Northern Illinois had been a Schutzhund Club for a number
of years prior to the existence of USCA.

They were originally founded by Dr. Herb Prieser and were a member of
the old, old version of the DVG in America, which began in the early 1980s.

There were actually some early NASA clubs before Peninsula Canine Corp,
but whether the "American Schutzhund" should count is pretty much 
ancient history by now.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

It wasn't an article in SchH USA, it was the PCC website. PCC was established in 1959. Some great old photos, etc.: http://www.sfpcc.org/pcc/about_us/history.htm


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