# dogs getting hit by cars



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

(sober currently) seen a few...loose dogs gettin hit..saw a couple people AIM for them...

heard the stories...from people wanting to buy pups, turned them all away...

personally had a few dogs get loose, some stayed on the property, some traveled a mile, some traveled 10 miles...all never got hit...

always judged people harshly on this...but that was what it was JUDGING...

I am a HUGE proponent of CONTAINMENT....but have also had dogs that did not comply...I now know there is a difference between carelessness/improper containment, and a freak accident...or just plain asshole dog...

I feel bad for blaming PEOPLE point blank for their dogs actions...

I recently had 2 incidents that took me aback and made me re-evaluate...

1) adult female on walk...took into PLACE (heel,sit) position for passing car...and then lunged AT car...grabbed it and almost got injured..ripped a piece of body flare off of car...never expected it...never happened before...
2) 14 week old puppy jumped in front of me and ran and bit some guy at night that was running towards us...while still holding pvc pipe in his mouth...

guy was obviously just running to a buddies house...I never expected the puppy to actually charge and bite a full grown guy..on a walk...

so I apologize for judging people based on things that are unexpected...
past, present and future...


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

You sure you are sober ??


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> You sure you are sober ??


happy Holidays Maggie, glad to see you can at least type..
hope all is well with you.  Was worried about you, Tony let me know you are OK!


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> happy Holidays Maggie, glad to see you can at least type..
> hope all is well with you.  Was worried about you, Tony let me know you are OK!


Cheers Joby and same to you , for now!

I lost a dog to a car accident many years ago,,,it really wasn't anyone 's fault as such, sometimes shit just happens. I have never been one to judge hastily.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> Cheers Joby and same to you , for now!
> 
> I lost a dog to a car accident many years ago,,,it really wasn't anyone 's fault as such, sometimes shit just happens. I have never been one to judge hastily.


glad to hear it..

I did and do...

I figured dog gets hit, it is the owners fault...still do..

but my dog coulda got killed the other night,,,still woulda blamed myself...but damn it woulda been like 10% my fault I swear...and 90% ON THE DOG...is that even fair? not sure..but I am currently sober and that is my estimate...


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> glad to hear it..
> 
> I did and do...
> 
> ...


My dog had been with my partner that one time,,, doing my routine,, with my dog,, dog ended up dead. No-one's fault, took me a couple of years to realise that, but I believe it to be true.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Getting hit, and killed by aa car was my reason to get into dog training. Her name was Quennie. She was a farm collie type that was given to us by an uncle because she would chase cars that came by his farm and wouldn't come back for hours/days. He gave her to us in the middle of the city (go figure) and after about a yr with us she got out and died on the front Dagmar bumper of a 56 Buick. 
With my my next dog, GSDxCollie Taffy, I swore it wouldn't happen again. The old man and his bird dog across the street helped me get started and my adventures began, I was 12.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who loses a dog for whatever reason even if they were at fault. What I can't stomach is someone who's dog goes missing from their unfenced front yard while unattended. Then goes all over the internet and on local TV saying how " I saw a white van near my house when my dog went missing and these people who are suing me have white vans and live here" Then when the dog is found across the street twelve days later says "someone had it in for me and stole my dog
and beat him to death" Of course this is a hypothetical case


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Yes I feel guilty for my dogs death. I could have always had him on a long line, or fenced in the yard or trained him better??? Do I blame my dog? A little bit. Do I blame the ahole 20 year old driver that had a loooooooong time to see the dog coming, to brake or swerve. I watched the whole thing happen as I'm screaming at my dog. The driver put on his brakes about 10 feet before impact. Didn't even skid, didn't really seem to brake hard, no skid marks or tire squeal, no jerking the steering wheel, etc. I re-enacted the event driving my 1 ton van. I could stop in about 30 feet or so from 35 mph (speed limit) without skidding. He had time to respond and I told him as such, I also told him he wasn't paying attention to the road at all, to busy f-ing with his phone. He did not deny it. So the driver is, in my eye, the most at fault, it could have just as easily been a child chasing a ball that was hit and killed.

So my dog was killed mostly because some 20 year old had to text his girlfriend that he'll be there in 10 minutes or some other earth shaking announcement.

I spoke with a cop a few days later following an false alarm across the street and asked him about the accident that happen in my front yard the day before my dog was hit. I wasn't home at the time. Appearently someone ran off the road, across my ditch, and hit a large tree leaving marks on the tree about 5 feet off the ground so I assume he got airborne. The cop told me it was a young kid and they had to cut him out of the car. I asked how it happened and he said the kid was playing with his Iphone. So in two days serious accident happened on my street because of these fing smart phones. Think about it the next time your tempted to text or otherwise take you eye of the road, I know I will.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

bottom line (IMO)--DON'T JUDGE. sure there are HBC's that don't have to happen, but there are those that do in spite of our best efforts.

ultimately, we lose a dear friend. accidents happen. it sucks.


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> Yes I feel guilty for my dogs death. I could have always had him on a long line, or fenced in the yard or trained him better??? Do I blame my dog? A little bit. Do I blame the ahole 20 year old driver that had a loooooooong time to see the dog coming, to brake or swerve. I watched the whole thing happen as I'm screaming at my dog. The driver put on his brakes about 10 feet before impact. Didn't even skid, didn't really seem to brake hard, no skid marks or tire squeal, no jerking the steering wheel, etc. I re-enacted the event driving my 1 ton van. I could stop in about 30 feet or so from 35 mph (speed limit) without skidding. He had time to respond and I told him as such, I also told him he wasn't paying attention to the road at all, to busy f-ing with his phone. He did not deny it. So the driver is, in my eye, the most at fault, it could have just as easily been a child chasing a ball that was hit and killed.
> 
> So my dog was killed mostly because some 20 year old had to text his girlfriend that he'll be there in 10 minutes or some other earth shaking announcement.
> 
> I spoke with a cop a few days later following an false alarm across the street and asked him about the accident that happen in my front yard the day before my dog was hit. I wasn't home at the time. Appearently someone ran off the road, across my ditch, and hit a large tree leaving marks on the tree about 5 feet off the ground so I assume he got airborne. The cop told me it was a young kid and they had to cut him out of the car. I asked how it happened and he said the kid was playing with his Iphone. So in two days serious accident happened on my street because of these fing smart phones. Think about it the next time your tempted to text or otherwise take you eye of the road, I know I will.


 
This is great! You blame your dog “a little bit” and the driver mostly for your dog being dead. 
Not that it matters, but if my dog was killed in the middle of the road in my mind there would only be one person to blame and that would be me. For future reference a dog is not supposed to be in the road. There will always be people who are not paying 100% attention for whatever the reason so keep your dogs out of the road. Your dog is dead due to owner neglect.


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> This is great! You blame your dog “a little bit” and the driver mostly for your dog being dead.
> Not that it matters, but if my dog was killed in the middle of the road in my mind there would only be one person to blame and that would be me. For future reference a dog is not supposed to be in the road. There will always be people who are not paying 100% attention for whatever the reason so keep your dogs out of the road. Your dog is dead due to owner neglect.


This is great!!! You seemed to skip over the "I feel guilty, long line, fence training etc". 
*There will always be people who are not paying 100% attention for whatever the reason *
Let me remind you that as a driver you have a responsibility to maintain attention to the road. Go try passing a drivers test while texting! Their is a reason for this, it's to prevent/avoid accidents!
Let me guess you have complete control of your dog 100% of the time for the 10 years or so it's alive! Give me a break! Sounding so self righteous! And a lot like a D!^k head!


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> This is great!!! You seemed to skip over the "I feel guilty, long line, fence training etc".
> *There will always be people who are not paying 100% attention for whatever the reason *
> Let me remind you that as a driver you have a responsibility to maintain attention to the road. Go try passing a drivers test while texting! Their is a reason for this, it's to prevent/avoid accidents!
> Let me guess you have complete control of your dog 100% of the time for the 10 years or so it's alive! Give me a break! Sounding so self righteous! And a lot like a D!^k head!


Not saying I have 100% control 100% of the time, but I should. And if the dog was killed when I was negligent I would just blame one person. You’re the one that let your dog run in front of a car and be killed and your calling me a dck? Guess we just don’t see eye to eye, but whatever makes you feel better.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

ann schnerre said:


> bottom line (IMO)--DON'T JUDGE. sure there are HBC's that don't have to happen, but there are those that do in spite of our best efforts.
> 
> ultimately, we lose a dear friend. accidents happen. it sucks.


Truer words were never spoken. I don't think there is an adult in this world, alive or dead, who never made a mistake. I know I have made my fair share, and some of my regrets occasionally give me sleepless nights. 

Edward it's obvious you accept the blame for the accident and at the same time I can sure understand your frustration at the driver who was texting.

Joby you're right and I hope I have the grace to remember this thread the next time I feel like being judgemental.


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> Not saying I have 100% control 100% of the time, but I should. And if the dog was killed when I was negligent I would just blame one person. You’re the one that let your dog run in front of a car and be killed and your calling me a dck? Guess we just don’t see eye to eye, but whatever makes you feel better.


Chris I don't understand your hostility. All of my post about my dog death have an underlying reason.

1. That it can happen in the blink of an eye. A reminder to keep your dog tight. I hope I've prevented or will prevent such an incident from happening to someone else by sharing my story/experience.
2. That as drivers we shouldn't be texting, and putting on makeup or whatever, we should be driving. So think about little Johnny chasing his ball across the street the next time you think about dialing a phone or whatever while driving.
I have every right to place some of the blame on the driver, he was negligent for clearly not paying attention while driving, it is his responsibility to do so.
So by your logic, joggers and cyclist etc. shouldn't be on the road either, because some ahole wants to drive and text at the same time.
Nothing will make me feel better, may help me cope, but not feel better. So you way off base here.


----------



## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

Accidents happen. Even the "best" precautions, training, etc, can't prevent all accidents.
A few years before I had gotten my first dog, I did a lot of dog-sitting. One morning I was dog/housesitting and I decided to go out for a run with their dog- a terrier mix fella. We were running parallel to a street, when a heard a scream, "Butch, no!!!!" From the side a see a large dog leaping over the fence headed straight for us teeth bared. No time to react with him coming so fast, I yelled "No!!" as he crossed the small street a delivery truck smashed into him as he leapt toward us. Thump, thump as he went under both sets of tires.
Probably has nothing to do with the thread. Who was at fault? Why did it happen? Yeah, I was pissed at the owner, briefly. But I was mostly grateful he was hit by the car or it could have been worse. I think someone was watching out for me that day. There is no value in blaming and judging. The owner of the dog felt horrible and apologized.. It was a horrible moment.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

One of the things that occasionally keeps me up at night is remembering that when I was in my 20s I killed a friends beloved dog.

The friend was standing in the driveway talking with my husband. I didn't realize his little dog was with him and I was in a hurry. I jumped in my car, glanced in the rear view mirror, then backed up. Didn't stop in time when they yelled because I was preoccupied with being irritated with my husband over something stupid. 

So I accidentally killed the poor dog. Should the dog have been on a leash - you bet. Should I have been paying more attention - YOU BET. 

Plenty of blame and pain to go around.
:sad:


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> One of the things that occasionally keeps me up at night is remembering that when I was in my 20s I killed a friends beloved dog.
> 
> The friend was standing in the driveway talking with my husband. I didn't realize his little dog was with him and I was in a hurry. I jumped in my car, glanced in the rear view mirror, then backed up. Didn't stop in time when they yelled because I was preoccupied with being irritated with my husband over something stupid.
> 
> ...


 
I thought you were still in your 20's??


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jody Butler said:


> I thought you were still in your 20's??


You MUST be drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lol:


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> You MUST be drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> :lol:


I don't drink


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> Chris I don't understand your hostility. All of my post about my dog death have an underlying reason.
> 
> 1. That it can happen in the blink of an eye. A reminder to keep your dog tight. I hope I've prevented or will prevent such an incident from happening to someone else by sharing my story/experience.
> 2. That as drivers we shouldn't be texting, and putting on makeup or whatever, we should be driving. So think about little Johnny chasing his ball across the street the next time you think about dialing a phone or whatever while driving.
> ...


Sorry if I jumped down your throat. I took a look at a few of the posts on this site only to read about your dog and who and what you blame for it. Maybe I read it at a wrong angle, maybe there was another thread about it I missed. But seemed like you were passing the responsibility of owning a dog off. Sorry if I read wrong. 
I am responsible for my dogs well being and if anything goes wrong the ultimate responsibility is on my shoulders no matter what. Maybe im wrong for thinking that. Has my dog followed me across a street without me knowing… ya. But no matter what the driver was doing and no matter how much the driver could have avoided hitting the dog the scenario of the dog being in harm’s way was my responsibility. If a car hit my dog I would have felt as if I would have to apologize to the driver of the car for me allowing my dog to be in the road. Apparently we look at things differently. I wouldn’t be in the street seeing how fast I could stop my car/ truck / van. It wouldn’t matter my dog should have not been in the street. 
Mistakes and laziness happen and there are always going to be people who take their eyes off the road. Does it sound like the drivers neglect contributed and he is partially to blame, ya.


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> Accidents happen. Even the "best" precautions, training, etc, can't prevent all accidents.
> A few years before I had gotten my first dog, I did a lot of dog-sitting. One morning I was dog/housesitting and I decided to go out for a run with their dog- a terrier mix fella. We were running parallel to a street, when a heard a scream, "Butch, no!!!!" From the side a see a large dog leaping over the fence headed straight for us teeth bared. No time to react with him coming so fast, I yelled "No!!" as he crossed the small street a delivery truck smashed into him as he leapt toward us. Thump, thump as he went under both sets of tires.
> Probably has nothing to do with the thread. Who was at fault? Why did it happen? Yeah, I was pissed at the owner, briefly. But I was mostly grateful he was hit by the car or it could have been worse. I think someone was watching out for me that day. There is no value in blaming and judging. The owner of the dog felt horrible and apologized.. It was a horrible moment.


Who’s fault? Right it was the owners fault and the owner apologized. Im gona just guess that this was not the first time the dog went flying over the fence. Additional precautions should have been taken. E-fence or chain the dog. If not the dog may jump the fence bite a dog or get hit by a car. It was only a matter of time. 
Aint saying it will never happen to me just saying most “accidents” are not accidents this one is a prime example.


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Sorry if I jumped down your throat. I took a look at a few of the posts on this site only to read about your dog and who and what you blame for it. Maybe I read it at a wrong angle, maybe there was another thread about it I missed. But seemed like you were passing the responsibility of owning a dog off. Sorry if I read wrong.
> I am responsible for my dogs well being and if anything goes wrong the ultimate responsibility is on my shoulders no matter what. Maybe im wrong for thinking that. Has my dog followed me across a street without me knowing… ya. But no matter what the driver was doing and no matter how much the driver could have avoided hitting the dog the scenario of the dog being in harm’s way was my responsibility. If a car hit my dog I would have felt as if I would have to apologize to the driver of the car for me allowing my dog to be in the road. Apparently we look at things differently. I wouldn’t be in the street seeing how fast I could stop my car/ truck / van. It wouldn’t matter my dog should have not been in the street.
> Mistakes and laziness happen and there are always going to be people who take their eyes off the road. Does it sound like the drivers neglect contributed and he is partially to blame, ya.


Feel for his lost and others, but couldn't agree with you more.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

this thread hits me hard and brings back some bad memories
1. i've hit a dog while driving .... luckily didn't kill it but got bit bad when i had to take off a wheel to get its mangled leg out of the front suspension it was wrapped around
2. i've had my dog killed when i allowed someone else to walk it .... watched it happen and all i could do is run over and pick it up as it died staring me in the face
3. and i've been hit by a car when i had my dog on a leash ... i stepped out front and took the hit

but Chris nailed it regardless of how others take it ... if YOU lose control of your dog in any way for any reason and it gets hit by a car the ultimate fault is yours ... it's called accountability... a forgotten concept in our modern society that spreads blame around
- i liken it to my navy days ... if a ship goes aground, the captain is finished; whether he was on the bridge or not ... with responsibility comes ACCOUNTABILITY ... the more you have the more you have
- many years back, one of my divers got killed ... diving accident ... i was responsible and it didn't matter how many others were "partially responsible" ](*,)


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Should MY dog have been in the road, never. Should I have trained better, put up a fence (even though he usually listens very well and never crossed the road before), or whatever else to prevent this accident from occurring, sure.
The incident that Sarah mentioned is very different from mine. It sounds like in Sarah's incident there wasn't any time for the driver to react, if this was true in my case then I would agree with you completely. But this wasn't the case. I drove my van as a test to see if the guy had time to react or not, it could have gone either way. But I concluded that he had plenty of time to react, but given his distraction with his cell phone did not.

You seem to be saying that drivers have some exemption from driving responsibly, that anything in their path can get run over and they are without fault, this is my issue with your opinion, and I disagree completely.

I was a paramedic for many years and I have two memories that I'm reminded of. One was a cop driving in a small town at night in a drizzling rain. Approaching a red light that was green he was distracted by something in his car, meanwhile the light had turned red and a old lady stepped off the curb to cross the road. He hit her and sent her up and over the police car. Luckily she survived with minor injuries. The second was a guy running late for work decided that he didn't need more than a porthole view out of his frosted over windshield. He approached a school bus making a 3 point turn in front of him, he timed it so the bus just made in out of his path. What he didn't anticipate was a school crossing guard in the road on the other side of the bus. He hit and killed the crossing guard. 
These incidents are again some reminders of how accident happen, but also illustrate why we as drivers should be focused on driving responsibly.


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I don’t expect you to get it Ed. Just different viewpoints. You keep thinking your right ill keep thinking im right. I will not get you to understand that the driver texting although had everything to do with killing your dog really had nothing to do with killing your dog. 
Your main point is, we as drivers need to pay attention because you never know when a dog might run into the street. This should go without saying 
My main point is we as dog owners need to keep our dogs out of the street because there are drivers who might not be paying full attention. 

Regarding your two examples of “how accidents happen”. I don’t see either as an accident. They were both due to laziness or neglect that makes them crashes. There is a difference. Crashes could have been easily avoided with a bit of effort. Crashes happen more often than accidents. Im not saying it wont happen to me just saying there different. 

In my opinion an accident would be driving down the road and your right front tire blows out causing you to be pulled to the right momentarily and hitting a dog on the side walk. I would feel real bad if this happened to me but thinking back on it I would realize there was not too much I could have done different. Assuming I was not driving on baloney skins or something. This to me is an accident on my behalf.


Just different ways of looking at things


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I've been on both sides. Been stupid and careless and had a dog get hit by a car. 

Came inches away from hitting a kid who dashed out between parked cars. He stared at me wide-eyed for a moment after I squealed to a stop and then bolted. I waited a moment for the adrenaline dump to subside and then thanked my lucky stars I hadn't hit him.

I hit a dog on an 80km/hr country road one night. She ran across the road in front of me with a bag of garbage in her mouth. I locked up the brakes, but I still hit her and sent her somersaulting into the ditch. She ran off on three legs. I went to the closest house to see if she belonged there and let them know where to look for their dog. Guy just shook his head and said 'yeah, my dog, she got loose again'. I was in tears. I had my two dogs in the car with me and I felt horrible about hitting his dog, but I was also angry. Fast road, dark night, dog with a history of running... owner should have done more.

Dogs have minds. They do unpredictable things. As vigilant as we try to be, shit happens. Learn from it, do better in future.


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

While in previous posts, I didn't say my dog shouldn't have been in the road, I thought that goes without saying. I did spell it out for you in my last post. You've defended the driver texting as if he has no responsibility to pay attention. 
While you seemed to have backed off on that absurdity, now your saying the first mistake (my dog running across the road) justifies the second mistake (the driver playing with his phone while driving). It could have just as easily been a child chasing a ball. 
Would you feel the same way if it was a child? 
Would the parents have been completely at fault, because the child shouldn't have been in the road?

Those are rhetorical questions, no need to reply.


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

general statement, no punt intended : Simple answer to this whole thread is, we as owners need to use a leash, a dog has temptations, end of story, not the dogs fault but its ours for being slacked and forgetting our dogs our breathing living animals to and not the robots we wished they were.


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> While in previous posts, I didn't say my dog shouldn't have been in the road, I thought that goes without saying. I did spell it out for you in my last post. You've defended the driver texting as if he has no responsibility to pay attention.
> While you seemed to have backed off on that absurdity, now your saying the first mistake (my dog running across the road) justifies the second mistake (the driver playing with his phone while driving). It could have just as easily been a child chasing a ball.
> Would you feel the same way if it was a child?
> Would the parents have been completely at fault, because the child shouldn't have been in the road?
> ...


 
Regarding kids, my girls should not run out into the road chasing a ball. I am responsible for my children’s well being they are my responsibility. I won’t spend my life blaming other people for my mistakes. There is a chance that a kid could run out in to the street and be hit and killed by a driver paying full attention and doing 5 mph under the speed limit. 
If a child ran out into the street and was hit, to some degree it does not matter if the person that hit the kid was doing 20 mph over or 5 under, the parents of that child are fully responsible to not have a there kid run out into the street. 

Rick made some very good points regarding accountability and spreading blame. He made my point better than me. Obviously depending on your view point some of us think sharing blame is out of control. I do think this is a major problem. To me only the village idiot thinks it takes a village to raise a child. 
Maybe this thread will cause a few of us to go that extra steep to make for nothing event full to happen. Maybe even change our day to day S.O.Bs with our dogs? Close calls and almost(s) should be considered complete failures that you just got lucky with. 
I feel bad for what happened to you and your dog and simply wanted to point out that there is another way of looking at your situation. That ultimately we are responsible for our dogs well being. Telling people to think twice before they text while driving is great. But in my eyes a kid texting while driving is not the true reason for your misfortune. 

That being said I think we all agree that stuff does happen and I hope I/ we are not jinxing any of us. 
Ed the fact that you even think for a second that I am defending the texting driver shows me how little you understand my point of view regarding responsibility. The reality of it is that I think most of your kind do understand about responsibility but find life is easer pretending you don’t understand. I mean come-on its got to stop some place…. whats next? If we don’t stop it now it might get out of control! People blaming banks for their bad financial decisions? People thinking they were born with the right to free medical? Imagine how silly people could get. :razz:

Have a good new year


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Sober is as sober does............:---)


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I agree the primary cause of the accident was the loose dog, I think everyone agrees with that, including Edward, BUT people have to take responsibility for lax driving habits. Had the driver not been texting while driving (which is against the law in my state), and had he been practicing defensive driving, the outcome may have been different.

I am sure Edward has learned a very hard lesson. I hope the driver has learned one too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_driving

The standard _Safe Practices for Motor Vehicle Operations_, ANSI/ASSE Z15.1, defines *defensive driving* as "*driving to save lives, time, and money, in spite of the conditions around and the actions of others*"[1] This definition is taken from the National Safety Council's Defensive Driving Course. It is a form of training for motor vehicle drivers that goes beyond mastery of the rules of the road and the basic mechanics of driving. *It's aim is to reduce the risk of driving by anticipating dangerous situations, despite adverse conditions, or the mistakes of others*. This can be achieved through adherence to a variety of general rules, as well as the practice of specific driving techniques


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Susan thanks for enforcing how many people try and pass the blame, your one person I knew I could count on. 
And your the best for digging up the Wikpedia link. Good job


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> Susan thanks for enforcing how many people try and pass the blame, your one person I knew I could count on.
> And your the best for digging up the Wikpedia link. Good job


 
What the matter Chris, someone else doesn't buy your convoluted point of view. Look out world, I'm driving my car. If I hit you or your child, it's your fault.


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> What the matter Chris, someone else doesn't buy your convoluted point of view. Look out world, I'm driving my car. If I hit you or your child, it's your fault.


Ya, that’s my thought process that’s right.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Edward Egan said:


> What the matter Chris, someone else doesn't buy your convoluted point of view. Look out world, I'm driving my car. If I hit you or your child, it's your fault.


That is exactly how you would see it if "you" were driving and hit someones dog....it would still be someone elses fault. It is a pattern.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

C'mon, folks. We can do better in the civility department.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Ed is a big boy Connie. I do feel sorry for the dog for sure. This thread reminds me of all the times folks bitch about someones dog running off the porch when they are walking their dog. The generally accepted POV is for "those owners" to train their dogs. Same applies here....maybe a fence wouldn't hurt to be responsible dog owner. Probably really shook the poor kid that was driving up as it probably ruined his day. Gotta feel for him. Now at least the kid knows not everyone has their dogs contained. ](*,)


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_" .... maybe a fence wouldn't hurt to be responsible dog owner."_



A fence is good, but like in my post about the young Mal that went under my gate, it can lead to a false sense of security. 

Other people will open a gate. Someone will prop or place something near a fence that makes it easy to scale.

IOW, there's training and proofing to do with a fence, too.

Needless to say, now I focus big-time on every aspect of gate behavior, starting with never going under. (I had NO IDEA he could make himself that flat.) And the recall is worked on regularly with each dog.

I know it was sheer luck that my dog survived the trip under the gate and into the street.


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> That is exactly how you would see it if "you" were driving and hit someones dog....it would still be someone elses fault. It is a pattern.


 
What pattern, put down the crack pipe Don


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Ed is a big boy Connie. I do feel sorry for the dog for sure. This thread reminds me of all the times folks bitch about someones dog running off the porch when they are walking their dog. The generally accepted POV is for "those owners" to train their dogs. Same applies here....maybe a fence wouldn't hurt to be responsible dog owner. Probably really shook the poor kid that was driving up as it probably ruined his day. Gotta feel for him. Now at least the kid knows not everyone has their dogs contained. ](*,)


The poor kid, are you freaking kinding me!!!!!!!!!!!

Don step away from the crack, it's no good for you!


----------



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Blame. Does it really matter whose? It does and it can only if one learns something from it and can prevent it from happening again. I am so sorry for your loss Mr. Egan.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Susan thanks for enforcing how many people try and pass the blame, your one person I knew I could count on.
> And your the best for digging up the Wikpedia link. Good job


Really Chris?

I have said over and over again that the primary blame goes to Edward, just as Edward has said. At the same time, and as I have previously said multiple times, I take some of the blame for my friends dog that was off leash and that I backed over with my car and killed. Had I been paying as much attention to what was going on around me as I should have the outcome may have been different. Had the driver of the car that hit Edwards dog not been texting, the outcome may have been different. I learned my lesson, I hope the driver of the car that hit Edwards dog learned his lesson. 

My point and Edwards point is this is a good time to remind people that defensive driving, which means in part watch out for other people's mistakes, is a good thing to practice.

Texting and driving - bad (duh)
not paying attention while driving - bad (duh)
defensive driving - good (duh)

Seems a simple enough concept - at least for most people.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Really Chris?
> 
> I have said over and over again that the primary blame goes to Edward, just as Edward has said. At the same time, and as I have previously said multiple times, I take some of the blame for my friends dog that was off leash and that I backed over with my car and killed. Had I been paying as much attention to what was going on around me as I should have the outcome may have been different. Had the driver of the car that hit Edwards dog not been texting, the outcome may have been different. I learned my lesson, I hope the driver of the car that hit Edwards dog learned his lesson.
> 
> ...


I also think it's flat out mean to be bringing the hammer down so hard on someone who's dog just died this Christmas. I think that really sucks, Chris. At least consider cutting the guy a break, having a little compassion and give it a rest for a few days, a tad bit of time, so the wound isn't quite so fresh in his heart, if you can.


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Really Chris?
> 
> Really? Yes really, you sound like my 12 year old


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> a tad bit of time, so the wound isn't quite so fresh in his heart, if you can.


 
You and Vicki Dickey should right for Hallmark


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> susan tuck said:
> 
> 
> > Really Chris?
> ...


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Really Chris?
> 
> I have said over and over again that the primary blame goes to Edward, just as Edward has said. At the same time, and as I have previously said multiple times, I take some of the blame for my friends dog that was off leash and that I backed over with my car and killed. Had I been paying as much attention to what was going on around me as I should have the outcome may have been different. Had the driver of the car that hit Edwards dog not been texting, the outcome may have been different. I learned my lesson, I hope the driver of the car that hit Edwards dog learned his lesson.
> 
> ...


Funny Susan, you left out:

Responsible dog ownership -good (duh)


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Chris McDonald said:
> 
> 
> > You must be thrilled your 12 year old isn't a flaming asshole who can't seem to understand very simple concepts. You must kiss your lucky stars every night your 12 year old isn't an illiterate moron like her old man.
> ...


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

This has become a useless post and is going no where!


----------

