# Bad Company Police K9 Tribute



## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoIv6olyN_c

Nicely done tribute.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

I was only able to watch it once, but at 40 some-odd seconds, is that video of a police dog getting effed up? I didnt have time to watch it again, but thats what I thought I saw...


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Good to see the German Shepherd dog is alive and well PSD


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

very nice Tribute, saw some good looking dogs in there!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

VERY nice!! 

wish they would've used the original BC tune instead of a cover, but generally don't care for covers of classic tunes. keep in mind i own the BC original LP "Bad Company, Bad Company". but i'm not old


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Brian McQuain said:


> I was only able to watch it once, but at 40 some-odd seconds, is that video of a police dog getting effed up? I didnt have time to watch it again, but thats what I thought I saw...


 That dog was getting his ass wooped. It Looked like the bad guy had him by the collar and was punching him in the head. The FLIR video turned off before we could get a glimpse of the handler arriving (Hopefully) making the scumbag pay for it:evil:


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> That dog was getting his ass wooped. It Looked like the bad guy had him by the collar and was punching him in the head. The FLIR video turned off before we could get a glimpse of the handler arriving (Hopefully) making the scumbag pay for it:evil:


 
Odd clip to put in a k9 tribute...I watched it again. Looks like the dog stops moving. Bummer.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

There were some nice apprehensions in that video, cool video, thanks for posting, also the pic at around 4:01-4:03 that was interesting.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The guy had the dog by the head or back of the neck and was beating him pretty good. I saw that right away, and the cop was where ?


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ...and the cop was where ?


 
Thats what I was thinking


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Prime example of why I think bite and hold is for retards. What more do you need. Poor dog was trained to bite and die, and I bet the handler thought his dog had good solid nerves for hanging on.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I've watched that section of the video several times and cannot figure out if the dog was being punched or stabbed. By the way the dogs image basically stops moving at the end as the guy gets up off the ground it appears as if he may have been stabbed.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> I've watched that section of the video several times and cannot figure out if the dog was being punched or stabbed. By the way the dogs image basically stops moving at the end as the guy gets up off the ground it appears as if he may have been stabbed.


 
Yep. Sure looks that way


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The guy had the dog by the head or back of the neck and was beating him pretty good. I saw that right away, and the cop was where ?


 Easy to question if you've never been there. Did you notice that it appears the terrain was steep by the way the cop and perp were moving? The FLIR cannot tell us what the vegetation was like either...I know because I have FLIR footage of an apprehension with Roscoe and the shit is so thick you could barely move but the FLIR doesn't indicate that. 

Chris....The dog disengages a couple times before he is caught by the bad guy. What makes you think BH would have saved this dog? BH is for a non moving target. This guy was moving and aggressive and the dog would have engaged anyway. For all we know this was a BH dog. I hope the dog survived.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Easy to question if you've never been there. Did you notice that it appears the terrain was steep by the way the cop and perp were moving?

So, if the guy has a radio, and you have a helicopter that can track the guys every movement, maybe he waits a bit, till the guy has moved out of that crappy terrain ? Or is there a time limit ?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Easy to question if you've never been there. Did you notice that it appears the terrain was steep by the way the cop and perp were moving?
> 
> So, if the guy has a radio, and you have a helicopter that can track the guys every movement, maybe he waits a bit, till the guy has moved out of that crappy terrain ? Or is there a time limit ?


 This is the problem with playing Monday morning Quarterback. We will probably never know. Was the guy suicidal? Was he desparate enough to be an imminent danger to other citizens whose household may have just been yards away on the side of the mountain? Had he already seriously injured or killed someone? Was he a violent felon escapee? How long was he holed up in the thick shit waiting for the cops to leave? Unless someone comes forward with the true facts, only then could we second guess the handler...and even then, I'm not going to because I didn't like being second guessed by those who haven't held a leash and tracked bad guys for real. Only the handler can tell us why he did what he did. If it was a collossal F**K up only then will I have something to say as the handler shouldn't be a handler because he would put everyone involved at risk.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

To reiterate what Howard said each call has an infinite set of variables. You will never know unless you were right there in the moment. What do you do when you have to follow rules of engagement but your opposition doesnt. Thank heaven in most cases it works out for us but it aint always cut and dry.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Easy to question if you've never been there. Did you notice that it appears the terrain was steep by the way the cop and perp were moving?
> 
> So, if the guy has a radio, and you have a helicopter that can track the guys every movement, maybe he waits a bit, till the guy has moved out of that crappy terrain ? Or is there a time limit ?



Jeff , the others covered it well already . But I'll just add that's a 20 second clip of I don't know what . As much as it sickened me to watch because my imagination was running wild , I watched it over and over again and still don't know much about it . 

We train dogs for many different agencies and along with our own dogs and we have seen many dogs get killed or hurt doing their jobs . We don't condemn them openly based on media reports but when we hear it from the handlers or someone that was there , if the handler did something wrong then he will hear about it from us . Not just training staff and adminstrators but from the average K9 handler too . On the flip side if the K9 handler did things right we will be there to support him or her . When I was on the training staff our opinion was used on getting read of handlers in other agencies that made bad decisions with their dogs . The safe handling of our K9 partners is a bigger deal to us then you think . 


The guys and gals I know love their dogs and don't want to see them hurt but all of us know or should know that it could be our dogs that could be next regardless how good our tactics were . For me I also know that news accounts can only give a very small idea of what went on and having actual knowledge of many high profile incidents I know how totally inaccurate that information may be . On the next big incident in your area listen to and read the many different news accounts . They will all have different versions with all sorts of different minutia thrown in . It's often theses little things (that may not have even occurred) that are used to condemn the Officer . 

As for your question about waiting the guy out if they could . I'd say 9 times out of 10 around here if they have time they will try and order the guy out and if he doesn't and if it's your " run of the mill " burglar or car theif we will muster up a team and go in , utilizing the dog . If heis want for something very violent we will wait for daylight and make a plan to get him . That's all based on the perfect situation having good containment(able to keep him in and inocents out) , weather amongst other things . Sometimes those are hard to get . 

At least around here even though we go after mainly violent suspects we can't treat calling out the SWAT team , waiting them out etc. . Unfortunately they are judgement calls because if we did we would quickly drain the city's entire budget . 

The last dog hurt in our area was jumped by 3 burglars and beat badly buy them . One had a , rambo knife , one a pry bar and the other a screw driver . It took just seconds for them to take him out . The handler did nothing wrong . He had adequate backup didn't let the dog get out too far (if you read the news accounts though it's different) and responded quickly to the dog . 

Now read the news accounts on line and in the forum section it's a bunch of criticsim of the handler based on information in the article that didn't even happen .


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Chris....The dog disengages a couple times before he is caught by the bad guy. What makes you think BH would have saved this dog? BH is for a non moving target. This guy was moving and aggressive and the dog would have engaged anyway. For all we know this was a BH dog. I hope the dog survived.[/QUOTE]

Howard, I got another look, your right the dog wasn’t on but was being held. Anyway you look at it they got who they were after and used a tool more dispensable than a person. If the guy was crazy enough to stick a dog he is crazy enough to stick anything. Still sucks but better than a person.
I take it the dog had a collar on?


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Chris....The dog disengages a couple times before he is caught by the bad guy. What makes you think BH would have saved this dog? BH is for a non moving target. This guy was moving and aggressive and the dog would have engaged anyway. For all we know this was a BH dog. I hope the dog survived.


Howard, I got another look, your right the dog wasn’t on but was being held. Anyway you look at it they got who they were after and used a tool more dispensable than a person. If the guy was crazy enough to stick a dog he is crazy enough to stick anything. Still sucks but better than a person.
I take it the dog had a collar on? [/QUOTE]

Who knows . Wish we could find out more about it . At times the way the dog intitially engages it almost looks like the dog had a muzzle on . Could be the dog had nothing on . Bit , got stabbed backed off , went in again and starting to succumb to his injuries but still trying to fight and get in there the guy was able to hold him down and assault him more . Just don't know .


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I just saw the dog getting beat and wondered what the **** was going on. I am not a cop, but I was pretty good with tactics in the military, and I have been in really crappy terrain and had it not work for me always. If the terrain is really crappy like that, my thought would be to not let go the line. 

That dog that died in Houston is still fresh in my head. I have nearly drowned more times than I care to think about, and have been choked to the point where I passed out. I know what it feels like, and that is going to color how I think.

I will take a dogs death anyday over any one of you guys. I will take an idiot who decides that he doesn't have to obey the laws of societies death over the dogs, and yours. 

Probably cut down on a lot of crime if these guys just got shot and left out in the bushes. Not going to get that law passed though. : )


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I just saw the dog getting beat and wondered what the **** was going on. I am not a cop, but I was pretty good with tactics in the military, and I have been in really crappy terrain and had it not work for me always. If the terrain is really crappy like that, my thought would be to not let go the line.
> 
> That dog that died in Houston is still fresh in my head. I have nearly drowned more times than I care to think about, and have been choked to the point where I passed out. I know what it feels like, and that is going to color how I think.
> 
> ...


I'm the same way . Seeing this stuff gets me sick to my stomach . There have been some pretty heated discussions about things like this amongst us in our office . We what if and go back and forth about how things could have possibly been done better . We just keep it in house because we know we don't have the full story . No harm done to the handler then . We don't want to condemn a handler who may have done nothing wrong and is dealing with the loss of his/her partner . 

One of your videos you posted awhile back almost started a fist fight . I showed it to some and set the scenerio just asking them to take some of the things stated as fact for learning purposes . Based on those "facts" one thought he would still send the dog . He's a good handler too . It got real loud after that . But then like all of this stuff we found out he was still reading things into the video . Once things were cleared up we were all on the same page . 

There have been some videos I've seen about the use of a Police K9 that made me scream outloud at the screen . Sometimes I find out things that justified it and changed my mind there are others I'd like to know the whole story because if I found out I wouldn't be bashfull about giving my opinions here or anywhere else . I'd also like a chance at kicking the sh** out of the handler .


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That had to be the L.A. debacle. Sent the dog, and then every undisciplined **** opened fire, killing the dog.

When I left the Marines, I thought about being a cop. I had my doubts about doing it, as I now what my reactions would be, and I doubt police academy would have changed that. 

I alway have wondered what one good flashlight could have done to the outcome of that situation. It was a flip flop the idiot was holding right ?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

When I was a new handler I made mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. I'd like to think I made less mistakes than your average newbie mainly because I began my K9 education by speaking to veteran handlers as often as I could, and joining these training forums as well as going to as many seminars as I could. My best friend is in his 6th year as a handler and is working his 2nd dog. He is gung ho about training and is brutally honest about his dog and its' performance. I've gotten him to sign up for a couple forums but he visits youtube dog related stuff more. I guess he figures since we work together he doesn't need to hear from anyone else other than the man who trained him. I tell him he needs to learn from everybody...that's what I do.

Thankfully, my early mistakes were minor in nature and something catastophic did not happen. I have audio tapes of the incident where my dog was stabbed. I listen to them now and then but it is difficult. I use the tapes for training new handlers so that they know what to expect during a high incident. Everyone who listens to them tell me later that I sounded so calm, almost bored while the shit was hitting the fan. I tell them experience will bring that, and besides...screaming like a bitch doesn't do anyone any good.

Like Jim said....if the handler made a mistake, he has more to fear from his K9 brethren than he does from the admin or media.


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