# Van Joefarm Malinois in Law Enforcement



## Jehane Michael Le Grange (Feb 24, 2009)

Hi guys,

Wondering if you can help...

Currently, Devil van Joefarm is in South Africa and will probably be used as a stud. I would like to know if anybody has any experience with the type of progeny he produced previously and are these dogs suitable for law enforcement work?? How common are dogs out of Van Joefarm or Elgos lines for law enforcement??

Basically I am looking for a female malinois as a foundation bitch for a breeding program that produces very drivey dogs with good civil aggression for law enforcement work. Nice full crushing grips, high stress tolerance and high retrieve, hunt and ball drive for detection work if necessary.

Any advice or points will be appreciated...


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## Chris Jones II (Mar 20, 2011)

I've seen a VanJoefarm bitch with crazy amount of civil aggression and confidence. She's a big, graceful, beautiful thing with a decent bite and a ton of fight in her. Very high working ability but a one handler dog with a crap temperament. Way too handler aggressive and reactive and physically sensitive to be suitable for work. A very unsafe dog to place in any volatile situation. If the dog got injured you'd have to shoot it with a tranquilizer gun to even get a muzzle on. The kind of dog you have to tip-toe around. That is just one dog though. I bet there are some that do make the grade.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

I've had a couple Joefarm female lined dogs that are worlds apart. One social with little civil aggression and another with tons of civil aggression. Judging from the Devils lines I'd say you'd be better off looking for a line of dogs who are more Police orientated. Not saying you wouldn't get 1 or 2 off a litter with Devils lines but you'd have much better chances with other bloodlines. JMO and a opinion who once was hesitant on believing. There are stronger bloodlines in unpedigreed dogs who will stay in a REAL fight till the end and in Police work I'd imagine that's what is wanted.


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

Are u looking for a pup or a adult, check out http://www.tulikuuma.com/ . many of her dogs have gone as police dogs and also very strong sport dogs, her breeding program is based on heavy research of dogs of certain traights, she is also extremmly honest and forth coming .


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Hey man check out Jeff Gamber's site. He has some really nice breedings coming up. I think one of the males that he is using in his breedings works with SWAT in Miami, FL (I think) No hype I think the breeding will speak for themselves. Good luck. http://www.ewdk9.com/ 

Shane



Jehane Michael Le Grange said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Wondering if you can help...
> 
> ...


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## Jehane Michael Le Grange (Feb 24, 2009)

What other famous European Line malinois produce good prospects for service work. I am talking about dogs that are very high in prey, hunt and ball drives (suitable for high level tracking and detection work) but are rock solid with very good hard, crushing, full grips. 

I noticed there seems to be a preference of KNPV line malinois in USA what are your thoughts on KNPV vs Belgian Ring vs French Ring lines producing police dog candidates?? 

Any info is appreciated.


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

Jehane Michael Le Grange said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Wondering if you can help...
> 
> ...


Jehane:

Michel Peetjens "From Mike's Place" I beilive produces the kind of dog that would match well with what you are looking for. We use a heavy dose of Klem and Nelton linebreedings to produce some great FCI Caliber working police dogs. I think you would be hard pressed to find better. You can find more info about him on my site www.ewdk9.com or his www.fromikesplace.com. We just sold a litter under his banner and got nothing but outstanding reviews w/two females going back to him in Holland for his program and top sport. The reviews can be found on EWDK9 on Facebook.

@ Shane thank you for your belief in me...


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

jeff gamber said:


> Jehane:
> 
> Michel Peetjens "From Mike's Place" I beilive produces the kind of dog that would match well with what you are looking for. We use a heavy dose of Klem and Nelton linebreedings to produce some great FCI Caliber working police dogs. I think you would be hard pressed to find better. You can find more info about him on my site www.ewdk9.com or his www.fromikesplace.com. We just sold a litter under his banner and got nothing but outstanding reviews w/two females going back to him in Holland for his program and top sport. The reviews can be found on EWDK9 on Facebook.
> 
> @ Shane thank you for your belief in me...


 
I trained up and placed a male mal in a dept close to Atlanta. Nice dog, He's a Mike's place dog with Joefarm on the top half.


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## Jehane Michael Le Grange (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks you guys,

Going to check out From Mikes place. ALready on the EWD website, looks great!!!

Thanks!!!


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

Michael Santana said:


> I trained up and placed a male mal in a dept close to Atlanta. Nice dog, He's a Mike's place dog with Joefarm on the top half.


Michael, I think his stuff rocks man. Super hard dogs, most that go around Europe either make top, top level champs w/the right handlers or they come back to him for being way too much for the handlers. Goes the smae for some police handlers over the pond as well in regards to his dogs...


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

To add to this Joefarm had many many litters in the past so for anyone to say Joefarm dogs are x y or z after seeing one or two is probably not a accurate statement on any kennel that has produced as many dogs as them!


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## Jehane Michael Le Grange (Feb 24, 2009)

Timothy Stacy said:


> To add to this Joefarm had many many litters in the past so for anyone to say Joefarm dogs are x y or z after seeing one or two is probably not a accurate statement on any kennel that has produced as many dogs as them!


 
Hi Timothy!

I have also heard this from a breeder here in South Africa that is fairly well connected in Europe with regards to Malinois. He told me the same sort of thing, basically if you produce 1000 puppies, somewhere or other you are going to get good dogs and useless one...Thats why I was more interested in any experiences from Devil as a stud dog and his progeny or since elgos and stoned appear in his pedigree, any reference to what they produce with regards to Police service dogs O


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

There is lot of good breeders in usa and many abroad, depends on your liking, you got jeff now doing the knpv blood if you like that type of dog, you can go the belguim blood if you want that type of dog, or some even have mixture of this and that, find the traights you like and then go from there, as some traights are very different, your dutch dogs more independent, your belguims are very strong with some personalty and get heavy bonds to there handlers you can go french blood that matures very fast but much more reactive for better or worse , ( i like a strong dog with some personality) , and then you have the mixture and those can vary . so all depends on YOUR likes , this is also my personal opinion, nothing i say is gospel

frankie


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## Brian Dascalu (Aug 7, 2011)

Joefarm dogs are everywhere in law enforcement in Europe. I have a granddaughter of Siblacky van Joefarm that is one of the Mondio hardest bitches I have ever seen and at the same time sociable and civil. She is full of fight under pressure and has had several live bites and real fights. She won every one. Sociability and drive are not mutually exclusive in my experience. I have known Bertrand and Nicky at joefarm personally for some years and we have had several puppies from them, all of which were strong dogs and I know many others with the same experience. So, either I am really good at choosing a puppy or, or they breeding good dogs . Of course, not every dog is going to be great, but in the main you don't hear to many complaints in Europe. Another line that I really like is des Loups Mutins. We have 2 young male des Loups Mutins Malinois (Capo & Yoda) at our kennels in Melbourne FL that are up as green Police K9s. www.specialistk9.com/usa Anyone on here that attended our training day with Orlando PD on the 16 July would give a good view of these dogs. I also have a des Loups Mutin puppy here at home with me (grandson of Volf des Loups Mutins). I would be happy with either line as an operational dog.

IMO, European bred dogs are always going to produce better results, especially Eastern European bred, simply because of the vast competition to produce better and better and healthier dogs and higher standard of training. Foundation training starts at 4 weeks. At the end of the day, it all boils down to personal choice.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Hey Brian. Gotta post an intro. Got ya before the mods.


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## Brian Dascalu (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks Howard. Done


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Brian Dascalu said:


> I have known Bertrand and Nicky at joefarm personally for some years and we have had several puppies from them, all of which were strong dogs and I know many others with the same experience. So, either I am really good at choosing a puppy or, or they breeding good dogs .


Knowing them personally might raise your chances of getting a good puppy though?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Anna Kasho said:


> Knowing them personally might raise your chances of getting a good puppy though?


 If that's the case then the new endeavor here has promise.\\/


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## Brian Dascalu (Aug 7, 2011)

Anna Kasho said:


> Knowing them personally might raise your chances of getting a good puppy though?




Bertrand and Nicky are the kind of people who welcome their customers into their home. The club, workshop where they make the equipment, kennels and breeding centre are at their house. Their attitude and personal emotional investment in the dogs is part of the reason for their success.

As for getting a good puppy, I still had to choose them


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## Darryl Richey (Jul 3, 2006)

I've owned and still do a couple of Joefarm dogs and it's without a doubt my favorite bloodlines. My first joefarm dog is (if he hasn't retired yet) on the force with a dept in New York. Him and the current one I own are very special in the bitework (competing in PSA) with excellant ball drive and hunt drive. Serious workers but not liabilities. Our old club in Maryland had more joefarm dogs come through then I could count and easily the majority were solid dogs. I personally like the Belgian line dogs a bit better, but don't get wrapped up to much in it since I'm not a pedigree expert.

Darryl


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Joefarm breed a ton of litters and they can be from very different bloodlines. I would avoid Yagus like the plague if you want police dogs. They also had dogs like Nelton DDP who was a fake pedigreed dog which in reality was a full NVBK dog. Nelton by all accounts was a strong dog and a far better option than Yagus.


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

Timothy Stacy said:


> To add to this Joefarm had many many litters in the past so for anyone to say Joefarm dogs are x y or z after seeing one or two is probably not a accurate statement on any kennel that has produced as many dogs as them!


Like always chris' posts are always on point. I don't have any information on Nelton either way in regards to his pedigree, but he is a super strong dog. Like I posted earlier Klemm and Nelton mixed is very good


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## Jhun Brioso (Dec 28, 2009)

jeff gamber said:


> Like always chris' posts are always on point. I don't have any information on Nelton either way in regards to his pedigree, but he is a super strong dog. Like I posted earlier Klemm and Nelton mixed is very good


Hi Jeff, 

I maybe a little off-topic. In regards to Klemm mixed w/ Nelton how did you say that this combination is very good? I have a Klemm progeny here with me out of Shiva airport hannover on his sire side & Judex on his dam side. But unfortunately we don't have a mix of klemm & Nelton here. 

Thank you very much...


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> Joefarm breed a ton of litters and they can be from very different bloodlines. I would avoid Yagus like the plague if you want police dogs. They also had dogs like Nelton DDP who was a fake pedigreed dog which in reality was a full NVBK dog. Nelton by all accounts was a strong dog and a far better option than Yagus.


Joefarm is done breeding I heard. They are putting their time toward equipment. Anyone else hear that?
Also, I know Roe and his sister Quny Van Joefarm are also mostly NVBK. They have a lot of line bred dogs on that also. I agree with Chris and Nelton as well!


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## Darryl Richey (Jul 3, 2006)

I had a Roe son and currently have a Roe Grandson. Would take another of these all day long.

Darryl


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

Jhun Brioso said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> I maybe a little off-topic. In regards to Klemm mixed w/ Nelton how did you say that this combination is very good? I have a Klemm progeny here with me out of Shiva airport hannover on his sire side & Judex on his dam side. But unfortunately we don't have a mix of klemm & Nelton here.
> 
> Thank you very much...


Michel Peetjens "from mikes place" has found great consistency in producing a high level of aggression, zero nerve issues, that make a perfect working police dog. Klemm and Nelton is a combination he based his program and that we now follow together on both sides of the pond.


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## Jhun Brioso (Dec 28, 2009)

jeff gamber said:


> Michel Peetjens "from mikes place" has found great consistency in producing a high level of aggression, zero nerve issues, that make a perfect working police dog. Klemm and Nelton is a combination he based his program and that we now follow together on both sides of the pond.


Thanks Jeff.....


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## Jonathon Howard (Nov 11, 2010)

Andries van Joefarm is a police dog that is used at stud. According to a breeder here who is an army dog handler raves about his offspring for service type work.


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## Brian Dascalu (Aug 7, 2011)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Joefarm is done breeding I heard. They are putting their time toward equipment. Anyone else hear that?
> Also, I know Roe and his sister Quny Van Joefarm are also mostly NVBK. They have a lot of line bred dogs on that also. I agree with Chris and Nelton as well!


Absolutely correct. Breeding is ramped right down and I got this directly from them. They will continue to breed some litters but on a much reduced scale


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## ray figueroa (Feb 2, 2011)

I have a dog that has Yagus and Stoned Duveturre in his bloodline and I like him. He is not too edgy, but will get the job done. NO ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES AT ALL. Large, tall dog as well, which does great for me with tractor/trailer interdiction. Good full strong bite but not crushing. He also is not a spastic hunter. He is a little more focused. Just what I like. To me it falls on different desires on what a handler would want to work.

For breeding purposes, I have always liked more of an edgy high strung dog though. Sometimes drives tend to get watered down through puppies. JMO..


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I must be the only police canine trainer around that has no clue to the pedigree of any of my dogs, ha ha. Good gawd I am getting old.

DFrost


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> I must be the only police canine trainer around that has no clue to the pedigree of any of my dogs, ha ha. Good gawd I am getting old.
> 
> DFrost


Don't sweat it David . I was the only one on my unit that studied the pedigrees of the new dogs that came in . That is if I could find them before the head trainer threw them out . I studied them more out of curiousity . I did think it might help in training but it never really did . Yeah I got an idea what the dog might bring based on what I studied . Really didn't change much when we got to work on the dogs . They told you way more then the pedigree ever did or could .


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