# Malinois ball play question



## ben peron (Aug 19, 2008)

Ok just a question i really want to see how people feel about this. If you are raising a malinois for competition, is teaching him two ball going to hurt my retrives. because when i play two ball i want him to keep moving not stop and then release and then throw the ball again. i want to keep him moving .... just a thought. what do you think ....


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Don't let him see you getting out of the shower.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Hi Ben, I have 5 Mals, got my Brevet for FR on two of my boys, and moved to some other sport venues, PSA,APPDA,ASR,NVBK,K9sprosport- anyway, when I am teaching them to bring the ball back to me, I use two balls or items-I mix it up-sock,pvc,tennis balls etc, I give them the command to retrieve...but I mix it up...sometimes it is just throw, have them bring it back,throw...etc...other times I make them wait after I throw it, holding their collar, not allowing them to go get it, but telling them go go go...making their retrieve intense...other times I make them sit, and tell the out...or make them wait and hold it, until I take it from them....keeping it fun, but sneaking in the "training" without them realizing it.


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## ben peron (Aug 19, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Don't let him see you getting out of the shower.


 

funny.....lol


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

As long as you don't do it the same way *every* time it should be fine. Two ball retrieves can be great for motivation. Mix it up, always keep the dog guessing.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Do you have a low drive mal or something ? ? ? ? I have only used that game for dogs with high thresholds or to build them up a bit to retrieve.


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## ben peron (Aug 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Do you have a low drive mal or something ? ? ? ? I have only used that game for dogs with high thresholds or to build them up a bit to retrieve.


very high drive mal . i want to use the game as a cardiovascular tool.....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

First off, if he is a mal, then you will get the OCD with the ball that is extremely annoying. Secondly, retrieve games used to build up the slow, are hard on the fast dogs joints. Using this occasionally would be OK, but sorta retarded as an everyday.

Even the slow show signs of wear with shoulder problems at an earlier age with ball retrieving games. Watch how biomechanically ineffecient they are when they pick the stupid ball up.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Wow, Jeff, I'm honestly rather surprised to hear you say that as I thought from previous posts that if they get it, they get it. But it is best to warm them up with a brisk walk before playing hardcore ball with them, this is true. Like doing wind sprints or whatever with no warm up. Bad idea...


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## ben peron (Aug 19, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Wow, Jeff, I'm honestly rather surprised to hear you say that as I thought from previous posts that if they get it, they get it. But it is best to warm them up with a brisk walk before playing hardcore ball with them, this is true. Like doing wind sprints or whatever with no warm up. Bad idea...


I appreciate everyones opinions, , it was a question from a beginner, chill out,,,...i asked a honest question that i wanted to get opinions , not rudeness......


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Erm, sorry you interpreted that as rudeness as no sarcasm or rudeness (for once, hehe) was intended. Being in the middle of a four day seminar on conditioning and rehabilitation, trust me, the warm up is indeed very important for avoiding the injuries from a hard ball playing session straight out of the crate or the couch or whatever.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I've always played "2 balls or 2 hoses" because I don't have to fight over outing the ball or hose with young dogs, but now that you guys are mentioning it, I can see how it could be used to speed up/increase drive in some dogs. 

It was my understanding an example of a dog with a high threshhold would be one who needs a lot of action from the decoy to get him to engage? Jeff could you please elaborate on how this game would be useful with this type of dog? That, or give me a more correct definition/example of a high threshhold dog.

I realize the original post was directed towards Malinois, so maybe the mods could break this off into a different topic, since I am asking about more than just the one breed and do not want to hijack the thread?


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## ben peron (Aug 19, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Erm, sorry you interpreted that as rudeness as no sarcasm or rudeness (for once, hehe) was intended. Being in the middle of a four day seminar on conditioning and rehabilitation, trust me, the warm up is indeed very important for avoiding the injuries from a hard ball playing session straight out of the crate or the couch or whatever.


cool thanks for the info


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I've always played "2 balls or 2 hoses" because I don't have to fight over outing the ball or hose with young dogs, but now that you guys are mentioning it, I can see how it could be used to speed up/increase drive in some dogs.
> 
> It was my understanding an example of a dog with a high threshhold would be one who needs a lot of action from the decoy to get him to engage? Jeff could you please elaborate on how this game would be useful with this type of dog? That, or give me a more correct definition/example of a high threshhold dog.
> 
> I realize the original post was directed towards Malinois, so maybe the mods could break this off into a different topic, since I am asking about more than just the one breed and do not want to hijack the thread?


 
Jeff?


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Even the slow show signs of wear with shoulder problems at an earlier age with ball retrieving games. Watch how biomechanically ineffecient they are when they pick the stupid ball up.


So, so true! =D>


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2008)

> Even the slow show signs of wear with shoulder problems at an earlier age with ball retrieving games. Watch how biomechanically ineffecient they are when they pick the stupid ball up.


I used to be a ball chucker...it was hard to see what was going on upon the actual retrieval many yards away, but when someone took this picture, I finally sez to myself: "Screeching to a grinding halt on a repetitive and casual basis does not look terribly healthy." #-o


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Stefan, my dog has weals on his lower hind legs from braking when I say "sit" in "here" from 5 m. I don't see how this can't be healthy. A bit of "wear and tear" is inevitable. I'm a wrack now from running down hillsides, doing jazz gymnastic, jogging, weight training, but geez, was IT fun!!


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2008)

Running down hills, eh? I can see how THAT would be inevitable among the Gebirge Voelker  ....but not ball throwing for reasons unrelated to training. 

This applies to my purposes as I currently see things. That's all.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Have you never had a life??? Climbing hills and running down them gehört dazu Ätch


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2008)

In bezug auf das Tretten um den Bergen? Nein...ich hab' keines leben da die naechste grosse HUEGEL ist mindestens 800 km entweg. 

Ich wohne in ganze Flachheit.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Oh Du meine Güte!! Flach soll er leben!!!


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2008)

Und flach soll ich sterben....


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jawohl=D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: It was my understanding an example of a dog with a high threshhold would be one who needs a lot of action from the decoy to get him to engage? Jeff could you please elaborate on how this game would be useful with this type of dog?

You could speed up the retrieve with it. I had a high threshold/ high drive GSD that used to frustrate me to no end, I used this game with her. Unfortunately, I think that it actually raised her thresholds as she was harder to get into drive the more I played the game. I have seen different results with other dogs, so I would not say across the board that this game would effect thresholds.

Again, any time that you "have" to use a game like this, you need a different dog. THis was a game that I was taught to use with "drive issue" dogs, not every dog like it seems to be now LOL.



Anni, I was not saying that I like the game. I have used it though for conditioning, as I use these to get "sprints" in. If the dog "needs" this, then you know my opinion. I also probably have the record for getting weak high threshold dogs to do the work. That is why I can say it is not worth the effort. Those ****ing dogs make me want to give it all up.

That is also why I know what happens to the dog later on.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jeez, speak American, wouldja? ;-)

Like I said earlier in the thread, I was on a four day seminar on this subject last weekend. Shoulder injuries in protection sport and agility (especially if you do the two on, two off for contacts) abound because the dog doesn't have the shoulder strength to stop, so the dog writes checks the body can't cash. Some ideas I learned for building up shoulder and overall core strength:

-putting bear bells on their front feet to get them to pick up their feet more. Back feet work well for the rear end:

http://www.rei.com/product/600276

-getting a fitness ball, putting a bathmat or towel on top and having small dogs balance on the whole ball (with help, obviously) or having big dogs balance just their front paws

-having the dog walk on or play tug on an inflatable dock (kind of like a raft or big air mattress with a tougher cover), which builds proprioception and lateral muscles. Deflate for increased difficulty

-do cones and cavalettis to make them pick up their feet more and to increase flexibility in the epaxial muscles of the back


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Awww crap, you should see the down hill running my dog has to do at work in the winter. I will film it sometime, just slamming downhill on groomed runs 7 km at a time. When his feet can't keep up to his speed, or he gets a paw into some soft snow and bails head over heels I just close my eyes and hope for the best.

No bear bells on his feet or towel exercises are going to to help that. :sad: I try to download him on a chairlift or take him down on a snowmobile when possible, but it isn't always possible. 

I will try to retire him before his joints are completly ****ed.

At least with toy play in the winter the snow has some give when grinding to a halt and turning at the same time:








Oh wait that is not a malinois#-o


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

AHAHAHA! juju speeken aus ze beeg beeg derrier aus vom fhartter woot woot! Hossenfeffer rutentooten, eh?


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

Real mature.:-k


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

What don't you understand Gerglish, sort of like Spanglish? Just a joke, Steve no harm intended.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2008)

I know! :mrgreen:


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