# Training a deaf dog with markers.



## Olga Sukonnikova (Apr 16, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DudSwGoTvlk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vgh_ejhaYo

May be helpful to deaf dogs' owners. And not only, I think. I admire the people who do this job - they teach me not just useful tricks but patience.


----------



## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Olga Sukonnikova said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DudSwGoTvlk
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vgh_ejhaYo
> 
> May be helpful to deaf dogs' owners. And not only, I think. I admire the people who do this job - they teach me not just useful tricks but patience.


That's very good! Yes, it also teaches that there is another language without repeating the same words over and over again, because obviously a deaf dog can't hear. =D> Here is a long clip from beginning to end with us teaching a deaf dog with a 'Sit Means Sit Collar'.

http://www.sitmeanssit.com/dog-training-videos/deaf-dogs/


----------



## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Olga / Fred
I had the pleasure of working for a couple and their deaf Cocker Spaniel while attending SMS trainers school last year.
I will never forget the look on the couples faces as they walked their dog around the block on a loose leash for the first time in 8 years. The E-Collar gave this family something that 8 years of other methods had failed to give them.
A gentile, friendly method of communications.
Craig

ps Fred I only wish I would have met you 10 years ago, keep up the good fight.


----------



## Guest (Mar 31, 2010)

WOW! Fred and Craig you managed to turn a thread about positive marker training into a little advertising marketing spot for yourselves and your products or products and techniques you support that have jack sh&t to do with the OP's post. What the hell? Good job! Zzzt.


----------



## Olga Sukonnikova (Apr 16, 2009)

Vin Chiu 

If people know how to use this and that, and it works - why not. As for me - I'm quite happy with an old good clicker and a bag of treats.  The dog enjoys training & the only problem is lack of time sometimes. If there are serious distractions and he forgets what we are working on, I prefer to "roar" (like lioness :evil - it's fun to watch the dog's reaction, how he is calculating quickly whether to obey or not (though not always as quickly as I would like him to). Training without electronic devices is more time consuming but I'm not in a hurry as I have only one dog in training and it's my hobby.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Olga Sukonnikova said:


> Vin Chiu
> 
> If people know how to use this and that, and it works - why not. As for me - I'm quite happy with an old good clicker and a bag of treats.  The dog enjoys training & the only problem is lack of time sometimes. If there are serious distractions and he forgets what we are working on, I prefer to "roar" (like lioness :evil - it's fun to watch the dog's reaction, how he is calculating quickly whether to obey or not (though not always as quickly as I would like him to). Training without electronic devices is more time consuming but I'm not in a hurry as I have only one dog in training and it's my hobby.


Nice clips, Olga!

So far I've trained only two deaf dogs of my own (well, one profoundly deaf and one gradually losing his hearing) and two deaf dogs belonging to other folks. Olga, are you training a deaf dog or just posting the video clips for info (good either way)?


----------



## Olga Sukonnikova (Apr 16, 2009)

Thank you, Connie! No, my dog is not deaf though he sometimes pretends - and also blind - and both rather skilfully! :-D I started using a clicker several months ago. The reason - I decided to make my dog think more and not just obey my commands. The dog used to be rather sly at times - while heeling he could keep watching some dog in the street and leaning against my left leg at the same time. I decided to make him responsible for what was going on - using the clicker. 

As for those clips, I just thought - if people can teach a deaf dog there's no excuse for not doing my best with a hearing one. I want to find some clips showing how hearing dogs are trained - I mean dogs for people who can't hear. I like methods of training where the dog shares the responsibility and not just obeys quickly. 

I sound like insane or heavily drunk, I'm afraid... :-D


----------



## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Vin Chiu said:


> WOW! Fred and Craig you managed to turn a thread about positive marker training into a little advertising marketing spot for yourselves and your products or products and techniques you support that have jack sh&t to do with the OP's post. What the hell? Good job! Zzzt.


Again.......my bad. I thought this was a thread titled 'Training a deaf dog with markers', and it was posted in the 'Video section'. So stupid me, I unthinkingly post a video showing a deaf dog and how we mark the behavior.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Olga Sukonnikova said:


> Thank you, Connie! No, my dog is not deaf though he sometimes pretends - and also blind - and both rather skilfully! :-D I started using a clicker several months ago. The reason - I decided to make my dog think more and not just obey my commands. The dog used to be rather sly at times - while heeling he could keep watching some dog in the street and leaning against my left leg at the same time. I decided to make him responsible for what was going on - using the clicker.
> 
> As for those clips, I just thought - if people can teach a deaf dog there's no excuse for not doing my best with a hearing one. I want to find some clips showing how hearing dogs are trained - I mean dogs for people who can't hear. I like methods of training where the dog shares the responsibility and not just obeys quickly.
> 
> I sound like insane or heavily drunk, I'm afraid... :-D


LOL! No, you don't sound insane/drunk. :lol:

I did/do find that training deaf dogs stepped up my own dog-communication skills. A lot. 

I don't know a lot about training service dogs for the hearing-impaired human, but if you run cross video clips, I'd love to see them.


----------



## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Olga Sukonnikova said:


> I want to find some clips showing how hearing dogs are trained - I mean dogs for people who can't hear. I like methods of training where the dog shares the responsibility and not just obeys quickly.
> 
> I sound like insane or heavily drunk, I'm afraid... :-D


No, neither insane or drunk. Here is a clip with a deaf client. The dog is not deaf but the client is: 

http://www.sitmeanssit.com/dog-training-videos/teaching-a-deaf-dog-training-client/


----------



## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Vin Chiu said:


> WOW! Fred and Craig you managed to turn a thread about positive marker training into a little advertising marketing spot for yourselves and your products or products and techniques you support that have jack sh&t to do with the OP's post. What the hell? Good job! Zzzt.


Actually the thread was about training deaf dogs hence the title "Training deaf dogs with markers"
My post was about training deaf dogs with markers.
Please enlighten me how one has jack sh&t to do with the other.
Back on topic how would you train a deaf dog with markers?
The first video shows hand signals and to a point I agree.
There are some suggestions on the second video that are more in line with the method I used.
If you rely only on hand signals the dog MUST be looking at you for you to teach and or request a command. With this method what would you do if your dog is chasing a squirrel into the street and a car is approaching? If you are faster than him/her you could run out in front of him/her and give the signal to stop or sit. What would you think about marking your request of your dogs attention with a low level stimulation. Would it not open up a whole new level of freedom for your dog?
Craig


----------



## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Craig Wood said:


> If you rely only on hand signals the dog MUST be looking at you for you to teach and or request a command. With this method what would you do if your dog is chasing a squirrel into the street and a car is approaching? If you are faster than him/her you could run out in front of him/her and give the signal to stop or sit. What would you think about marking your request of your dogs attention with a low level stimulation. Would it not open up a whole new level of freedom for your dog?
> Craig


I think this is what you mean by the dog not being able to see you. This is a blind dog with no eyes. Carla Collins and myself did a seminar at a Veterinarian College and one of the Vets had a blind dog. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzEMmWMUVZw


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

It must be a very subtle thing, visible to only the experienced eye, because to me it was the same from beginning to end.

What was that video supposed to show ?


----------



## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> It must be a very subtle thing, visible to only the experienced eye, because to me it was the same from beginning to end.
> 
> What was that video supposed to show ?


I didn't have a comparison, and neither do you. I can only go by what the Vet/ owner was saying about it afterwards. I never saw the dog before. Maybe she just lied about everything.......who knows.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Fred Hassen said:


> I didn't have a comparison, and neither do you. I can only go by what the Vet/ owner was saying about it afterwards. I never saw the dog before. Maybe she just lied about everything.......who knows.


What did you see ??


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I only got to play with a deaf dog for one day, a white boxer pup, he belonged to my brother's friend/roommate. Surprisingly, I found him much easier to train - less distractable, more visualy oriented. He learned hand signals for Come, Sit, and Down, in just a couple 1-2 minute sessions. I used a hand signal as a marker, the OK sign, and really small treats for reward. Dog picked it up so quickly I was amazed. By the end of the day he was following me around waiting for me to tell him to do something... 

The only thing I would have needed the e-collar for is to signal for attention or recall when the dog could not see me, but in the house I could stomp on the floor and he oriented pretty well to the vibration.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Craig Wood said:


> ... Back on topic how would you train a deaf dog with markers? ... If you rely only on hand signals the dog MUST be looking at you for you to teach and or request a command. With this method what would you do if your dog is chasing a squirrel into the street and a car is approaching? .... What would you think about marking your request of your dogs attention with a low level stimulation.



A guy at our club made a vibrating collar and says it was easy, and there are directions on several web sites, like http://www.deafdogs.org/resources/vibracollar.php 

But I don't know if it would be easy for me. :lol: So I use a purchased vibrating (pager) collar. 

The dog can feel a foot stomp on some indoor surfaces and "hear" the concussive waves of a hollow clap, but the vibrating collar fills in for the rest of the time.

Just two vibrator commands (for me): "Look at me," and the recall (short and long). I use the short one much more often, followed by whatever signed command (including a signed recall: an easy-to-see arm gesture).

A visual marker is easy, of course. Like various verbal markers and mechanical clickers, it's just whatever choice the handler prefers.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> I only got to play with a deaf dog for one day, a white boxer pup, he belonged to my brother's friend/roommate. Surprisingly, I found him much easier to train - less distractable, more visualy oriented. He learned hand signals for Come, Sit, and Down, in just a couple 1-2 minute sessions. I used a hand signal as a marker, the OK sign, and really small treats for reward. Dog picked it up so quickly I was amazed. By the end of the day he was following me around waiting for me to tell him to do something...
> 
> The only thing I would have needed the e-collar for is to signal for attention or recall when the dog could not see me, but in the house I could stomp on the floor and he oriented pretty well to the vibration.


I was typing while you were posting .... but yes, the process was as simple as any marker training, I thought. Maybe better, because I was unable to clutter it up with extraneous chit-chat. :lol: Background noise is eliminated.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> ... I found him much easier to train - less distractable, more visualy oriented. ...


I found the same thing, but suspected that the difference was me. I was unable to cloud it up with varying verbal marker and/or command tones. :lol:


----------



## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> A guy at our club made a vibrating collar and says it was easy, and there are directions on several web sites, like http://www.deafdogs.org/resources/vibracollar.php
> 
> But I don't know if it would be easy for me. :lol: So I use a purchased vibrating (pager) collar.
> 
> ...


Connie / Anna

Cool link I love the geek stuff.

I like to use the collar for "look at me" only, and would let the dog tell me its preference for stim or vibrate.(My male Bouv wants no parts of the vibrate on his Dogtra)
I would not let a deaf dog get out of visual of me as I am his/her ears.
So for me recall is a "look at me" stim/vibrate followed by a recall hand signal.


Craig


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Craig Wood said:


> I would not let a deaf dog get out of visual of me as I am his/her ears.
> So for me recall is a "look at me" stim/vibrate followed by a recall hand signal.
> 
> 
> Craig


Yes. I think I have used the pager recall signal twice total. :lol:


----------



## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What did you see ??


I saw a dog that was paying attention for quite a while, and since I was the one that was communicating to the dog......yes, she was using her voice as I was coaching her, but it's hard for dogs to pay attention for that long under normal circumstances if you can't touch them so it didn't surprise me.
I obviously had a good feel for when the dog would have been lost, and what it was taking to get it back on track, so I certainly wasn't surprised at her response.


----------



## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Vin Chiu said:


> WOW! Fred and Craig you managed to turn a thread about positive marker training into a little advertising marketing spot for yourselves and your products or products and techniques you support that have jack sh&t to do with the OP's post. What the hell? Good job! Zzzt.


They funny thing about training dogs for a living...... everything you post about the way you train is advertisement. Get past it. Is it quality or not? That's a worthwhile topic.


----------



## Olga Sukonnikova (Apr 16, 2009)

Craig Wood said:


> If you rely only on hand signals the dog MUST be looking at you for you to teach and or request a command. With this method what would you do if your dog is chasing a squirrel into the street and a car is approaching? If you are faster than him/her you could run out in front of him/her and give the signal to stop or sit.


 ... 



Olga Sukonnikova;181771 said:


> I started using a clicker several months ago. The reason - I decided to make my dog think more and not just obey my commands. ...
> I like methods of training where the dog shares the responsibility and not just obeys quickly.


You are right, Craig. There are situations when dogs MUST OBEY QUICKLY! It can simply save their lives!

Today I was in a rather unpleasant situation. It wasn't a question of my dog's life. He just didn't like the fact that there were other dogs on planet Earth. If there had been no leash there would have been lots of blood. And while I was roaring No-o-o! Oh-pee-ayeeee!!! I was thinking about markers and dogs' responsibility...:twisted:

What markers can I use if the dog that is not deaf when his supper is being served prefers to look deaf in a situation like this?!.


----------



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

With a deaf dog, I use repeated hand flash (flashed about every second) as an intermediate bridge, a backward movement with upraised hands for the release, hand signals for commands, vibrating e-collar as a recall & a pinch & e-collar stimulation for negative reinforcement & positive punishment. I keep the deaf dog on leash (long lines) for quite a while so he understands he always needs to know where you are. The handler also needs to realize those limitations & never let the dog too far out of eyesight in an unfamiliar area. 

I speak the commands as well as use hand signals because it is so much more natural for the handler & your facial expression is much more relaxed while speaking to que the dog as to your mood. Deaf dogs learn exactly the same way as normal dogs--you just need to figure it out.


----------



## Olga Sukonnikova (Apr 16, 2009)

Sue, have you been doing all this for a long time? Sounds very professional. 

Though my dog is not deaf I am interested in all those methods because as Connie said - 



Connie Sutherland said:


> I did/do find that training deaf dogs stepped up my own dog-communication skills. A lot.


But now I have some serious problems. Real spring has come to Moscow at last! There are many dogs outdoors and I've realized my fellow has grown up. In winter I thought I could control him. Wrong... Well, I think I'd better open a new thread and call it "Training a dog that would't pay any attention to my commands when he wants to fight with another dog with markers"... 

I'd like to try what you've described, Sue. Why is my prejudice against e-collars so strong? Because I saw how it was used in a wrong way by someone who, I think, wasn't taught how to use it. The dog screamed... The dog didn't obey and the handler used higher level - the dog screamed more desperately, jumped on the handler and so on. It happened long ago but I still can't forget that dog - a white pitbull...


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just a bit off topic but one of my daughters is an interpreter for the hearing impaired. She taught her first dog she got after marrage ( JRT/Border Terrier) to read "sign". 
Really cool to watch. 
If ever I wished to see a training video it would be that one. Unfortunately the dog has passed on.
She now has a ](*,) Chi dog. Damn little bass plug with feet! Where did I go wrong????!!!!!


----------



## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Just a bit off topic but one of my daughters is an interpreter for the hearing impaired. She taught her first dog she got after marrage ( JRT/Border Terrier) to read "sign".
> Really cool to watch.
> If ever I wished to see a training video it would be that one. Unfortunately the dog has passed on.
> She now has a ](*,) Chi dog. Damn little bass plug with feet! Where did I go wrong????!!!!!


Bob
Your daughter taught a dog sign language, I hardly think you went wrong with that one.
I second your thought as well, and would add I would love to hear her thoughts on the process.
We are at our limit of 5 dogs in the house, but I take my copy of "The Border Terrier" by David VanGordon Kline and Patricia Bennett Hoffman off the shelf often (some day)
Craig
Off to train French Ring with my little Dutchie girl Halo. I wish I would have started this stuff when I still had short term memory LOL


----------

