# Obsessed with Terriers



## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

I should say becoming obsessed with Terriers..

My dogs of choice will probably always be large working dogs, but recently I've found myself spending a lot of time looking at Patterdale, Jagd & Border terrier kennels. I've become pretty fascinated by the concept that these tough little dogs (when bred _correctly_) have such a great hunting instinct that with training they can become pretty damn successful little erradicators of vermin and small game. I realize that it's significantly more difficult to find nice working Borders than the others (if anyone would like to contend that statement, please do), but I'm never opposed to digging deep in my research. 

My question(s) to the board members here with experience is, what is it like living at home with the different terrier hunting breeds? I'm of the belief that if acquired as a puppy, almost any dog can be trained to live amongst the family relatively peacefully, but of course some dogs are wired to just be more off the wall than others so I would want to be fully prepared to deal with that if need be. Right now we have 2 dogs (getting a 3rd later this year) and a cat, but I would not worry about this cat becoming a meal for the terrier.

I guess really what I'm asking is, would it be 'cruel' of me to bring a hunting-line Patterdale, Jagd or Border home with the intention of it being another household pet, that I would train obedience regularly and only take hunting (for rabbits, fox, raccoons, opposums, etc) and on hikes, etc a few times a month? He/she would also be outdoors daily of course and could keep my property/area free of small pests..


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Dave

Having seen the one track in Holland that belongs to the Limburg PD...I have to tell you that a FH on a good one would be pretty easy.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

De ja vou all over again.
I just finished discussion this on another post here.
All my terriers, both show line and working, were house dogs. 
With terriers, as with any breed, your going to find some that are less tolerant of other dogs. I was fortunate to have hunted with a number of the dogs in the background of all my working line dogs so I knew what to expect. My only trouble maker was my late JRT that was just nucking futs. I hunted with his parents and all four grand parents. His mother was the only one that I considered unstable but I took a chance since all were great hunters. Guess what?! Pete was crazy as a loon, like his mother, but a great hunter.
HANDS DOWN, the Border terrier is the most dog friendly of the whole group. My two ran with a Kerry Blue and a Norwich. They can be very soft to people and heavy hands will crush them.They can even be passive/submissive with other dog....as long as they aren't pushed to far. :twisted:
I've seen a very high percentage of hunting instinct in most of the terriers. Even show line. I believer that's because even in the show line a "full of it, in you face" attitude is bred for.
The only one I had that had practically no interest in critters was my Norwich . The best I can say about him was he had a very successful run in the breed ring. ](*,):lol:


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

you might be interested in a nice decker rat terrier ..... ive been researching them lately


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

To add to Will's comment.
The jagd has the best nose of all the little bassids but if you hunt with them, forget about human tracking.
I started AKC tracking with one of my Border terriers. GREAT nose! Problem was I had hunted with him for a couple of yrs prior to the tracking. Deep nose, the whole nine yards....unless the man track crossed a critter trail. Just wave adios! :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Tyree Johnson said:


> you might be interested in a nice decker rat terrier ..... ive been researching them lately



The Decker is a pretty good sized version of the rat terrier.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I will add to my own post that when the Norwich got old he slept a lot on the air conditioning register in the hall way. CRABBY old bassid and not even my daughter's Rotty would step over him when he was seeping there.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> To add to Will's comment.
> The jagd has the best nose of all the little bassids but if you hunt with them, forget about human tracking.
> I started AKC tracking with one of my Border terriers. GREAT nose! Problem was I had hunted with him for a couple of yrs prior to the tracking. Deep nose, the whole nine yards....unless the man track crossed a critter trail. Just wave adios! :lol:


Haha I believe it.. Good to know about the jagd's tracking ability. I knew Border's are typically the most social and family friendly but I'd actually prefer a dog with a little more edge. In fact, should I decide on a Border I would probably try finding a line that isn't quite so handler sensitive (if they exist). That scares me.

Tyree, thanks for the suggestion. I looked them up and I'm not a big fan of that dog, aesthetically. Still going to read more about them just to learn but don't think they're for me. I'm much more interested in a dog's working ability than how it looks but I still favor certain 'types' if I have to live with it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> .... All my terriers, both show line and working, were house dogs. ... With terriers, as with any breed, your going to find some that are less tolerant of other dogs. ... HANDS DOWN, the Border terrier is the most dog friendly of the whole group. My two ran with a Kerry Blue and a Norwich. They can be very soft to people and heavy hands will crush them. ...


My own experience with Border Terriers is 1/100th of Bob's, of course, but every word he says about them resonates with me. The old description "affectionate workman-like little fellow in a plain brown suit" fits the Borders in my family to a "T." 8)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

" I would probably try finding a line that isn't quite so handler sensitive (if they exist). That scares me".


They certainly gave me a whole new perspective on dog training. :lol: 
My first Border was after I had a couple of Kerrys. 
One definition in a book on the Kerrys was 
"Irish as Patty's pig. Fight at the drop of a hat and they carry their own hat."


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Dont know huge amounts of the terrier breeds really other than a patterdale or jagd, but do know of one very well being the infamous Irish Terrier ( mali in a terrier body ), although have never owned them personally I have and was raised around them by my folks for their tenascious will to hunt and kill and destroy. Always was around them to my young teen years when the old man packed it in and quit with them. Out of the right lines because alot are nothing more than sorry show dogs and have been watered down workability wise now, there are still the little monsters to be had. Heres a brief description of them I found on the internet to give a overall spectrum of them, me personally if I had my choice I would go with a Irish not saying the others are no good, I am sure they are, JMO.

*The Irish Terrier is courageous, energetic and loyal. They are often affectionately called "Daredevils" by their fanciers. Sweet with their families, an entertaining companion. **The Irish Terrier is a good friend for active children, loving a good play. Bold, inquisitive and ready for action and adventure. Intelligent, they are very trainable. They have a strong protective instinct and therefore need dominant owners. If they sense an owner has a meek side to them they will become willful as the dog will believe he needs to be in charge. Can be quite a handful. Train firmly starting when the dog is a puppy, providing rules the dog must follow and limits to what he is and is not allowed to do. Be calm, but stern and always consistent. **Socialized this breed well. May not get along with other dogs if the owners are not on top of them communicating that they are not in charge and that fighting is an unwanted behavior. This hunting terrier should not be trusted with non-canine pets. **They can be difficult to housebreak. The Irish Terrier likes to dig, explore and chase anything that moves. Do not let them run free unless they are in a safe area. *


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Yeh, but those Kerrys sure are good looking.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Yeh, but those Kerrys sure are good looking.


LOL Don, all bullshit aside.. I'm not sure if you've ever worked/bred anything aside from Airedales, but if for some reason you had to own a smaller breed that could compare, which terrier do you think you'd go with? Pretend all the problem boar you have to deal with turned to problem gopher or groundhogs and your phone was ringing off the hook asking for help..


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

MMmmm. I like the patts, but, love the temperaments of the Kerry's. Don't know if there are any good ones around but the scotties are tough. Then there is a small terrier that looks like and airedale but isn't a Welsh and I can't think of the name offhand but it is a straight up hunting terries. Is it a Fell terrier Bob? I like just about any of the terries outside of the jags. I am drawing a blank on names right now but there is a funny looking terrier that looks like a roachbacked lamb. People don't understand what a roachback does until they see those dogs run. Just blow your socks off and the name is on the tip of my tongue. A Bedlington, that is it. A Lakeland is the other one.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Lakelands - 

Bedlington Terrier - they kinda look like little fuzzy sighthounds


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I am drawing a blank on names right now but there is a funny looking terrier that looks like a roachbacked lamb. People don't understand what a roachback does until they see those dogs run. Just blow your socks off and the name is on the tip of my tongue. A Bedlington, that is it.


ew LOL


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks Lynn. I was having a brain freeze.....or too many last night.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Bob or Don, whats your take on the Irish if any? I have my own take and like I said above you couldn't steer me to another terrier probally, but am curious of use two propaganda ( the good the bad and the ugly ) being that your terrier folks.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I yhave never been around them Harry but I like what I read about them.


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

I added a Border Terrier bitch to my pack of Rottweilers last year. She has been so much fun. Super intelligent and learns everything really fast. As others have said, they are very handler sensitive. I'm not a heavy handler by any means but I find even using a no-reward marker gets her all sad. She's never been heavily corrected for anything but if you say 'no' her ears drop and she looks like a dog thats been beaten. Crazy sensitivity. But you can't beat their food drive ... mine will chatter for food like Malinois do. She has tons of energy too and has been a great house dog. 

I had spent time with patterdales, Jack Russels and sport dog mixes prior to deciding on a Border Terrier. You might find you like the sport dog mixes as well. I was looking at the border-border-jacks for awhile but I didn't like the size inconsistency which is why I went for the pure Border. Blue Cedar Sport dogs has had some interesting mixes that also incorporate malinois. I've met several and really like the combinations.


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

The patterdales I know do competition obedience, protection sports, and agility and don't seem to have a huge issue wth being too soft. Sensitive perhaps (able to read subtle cues that you may not be aware you are transmitting). I think you might get that in any small terrier. Some of the JRTs are very soft. I don't know jadgt, I heard they are harder. In the 20 years or so I have been around terriers I have never heard one bad thing about (or seen one bad behavior from) a border. A border should be fine in a normal active home. I haven't heard any complaints from the patterdale people I know about house manners, etc., though they are very experienced dog people so it is hard to judge. I'd be very surprised if any of these little guys would let vermin get past them. 

I was very impressed with an irish terrier I met and also an austrialian terrier. These guys are hard to find though! 

I would be careful to really check out the parents and so on, even within the same lines, at least with the JRT's you could have crazy ones and wonderful ones. 

Best of luck in your search!


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks for your input, Dana and Holden. Regarding the Borders, have either of you ever hunted with them, or could you give me the name of anyone you know that has? I'm confident enough that they'd make a great pet, but not so sure one would have the hunting (tracking and finishing) abilities I'm really looking for.

Patterdales I worry about the opposite - pretty sure I'd end up with a great hunting dog that my gf may want to shoot in the house. Knowing myself and what I want, as it stands now I would definitely go for a Patterdale over a Border for these reasons. Basically I know I can train most dogs to be good in my house, but I can't train one to have super hunting instincts.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I yhave never been around them Harry but I like what I read about them.


Gotcha, I am still trying to dig up pics for that one lady that just introduce herself recently that has them, yea they are jam up little friggers, nerves of steel and balls of superman, of course from a correct working breeding, you should give one a whirl.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The Fell terriers are named after a location location. The are hunted in the Fels area of Norther GB. The ground there is to rocky to dig so you uses a dog that goes in and gets the job done. the hunters in that area are doing it for preditor control. GB foxes can be up to 20-25 lb and take a heavy toll on lambs. The working Lakeland is used in the fell terrier quite often but many are a nondescript, raggedy looking dog. aka "functional".
I've never seen a working Irish.Fact is, when I was doing the show thing I rarely saw them in the breed ring.
Kerry's, IMO, are the classiest looking but the coat is single and soft. No shedding but they collect burs and whatever like velcro. I scissored mine in the show cut because I loved their looks and refused to just clip them. pia when I was hunting and showing at the same time. One of mine was the top winning KBT in AKC obedience in the early 80s. Terriers are different to train. Convince them they are having fun and the world is yours.
Bedlingtons (Lamb looking) are badass like most of the terriers. Supposedly the Border, Bedlington and the Dandie Dinmont all come from the same lines. None look alike today.
On the Patterdale;
There are a couple of colors and coats. smooth, broke coated, black, Red. They are originally a form of Fells terrier till a Brit named Brian Nuttall started breeding them as a single breed.
I like the broken/rough coated terriers best for looks. 
One of my hunting partners was a JRTCA working judge. If you wanted a working title it had to be witnessed by a working judge. Because of that I got to dig to a lot of different terriers but the JRT and Patterdale were probably the most common.
Most ALL the terriers today are waaay to big for actual work in the ground and just aren't built correctly for the work but the heart is still there even for a lot of show lines.


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

I think P Burns blog probably covers more about working terriers than just about any other source readily available. Here's an old article of his talking about working terrier breeds.

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2005/10/question-of-breed.html


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Melissa Thom said:


> I think P Burns blog probably covers more about working terriers than just about any other source readily available. Here's an old article of his talking about working terrier breeds.
> 
> http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2005/10/question-of-breed.html



Excellent article!


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

Nice article! I would be much more picky if I knew I was going to do earthwork on a certain type of quarry in a certain locale. If it is just vermin control I don't know if you would need to worry so much about spanability / size, etc. Unfortunately I have been out of the small terriers for many years and am no longer in contact with the people that hunt with them. I will see if I can ask my friends about how the patterdales are in the house and see if I can't get some feedback for you. They seem pretty levelheaded. I also think they have not gained in popularity so much yet as to be ruined. They are so very handsome I think it may be a danger.


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

Live with a nutty one for a few years.. you will get over your obsession<g>.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

terrier pic attached


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

wow can't belive i figured out how to insert a pic into a post.

anyways this is the sort of terrier we use, this is not my dog BTW. it is an unregistered but pure line of dog, 

you won't ever get the chance to own one however - if there is something better than this around please share at least the pic. 

one of this family just got crossed with a dale to add more nose the experiment seems to be working with the pups first hunt.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Wright said:


> Live with a nutty one for a few years.. you will get over your obsession<g>.



Lived with a lot of nutty ones for a lot of yrs. Still love em! 
last one (JRT) is gone as of a few weeks ago but if I ever get another dog for the house it's gonna be a nutty one. :wink:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Lived with a lot of nutty ones for a lot of yrs. Still love em!
> last one (JRT) is gone as of a few weeks ago but if I ever get another dog for the house it's gonna be a nutty one. :wink:


Bob, did your Pete pass away or has he gone to live with your boy ?


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Holden Sawyer said:


> Nice article! I would be much more picky if I knew I was going to do earthwork on a certain type of quarry in a certain locale. If it is just vermin control I don't know if you would need to worry so much about spanability / size, etc. Unfortunately I have been out of the small terriers for many years and am no longer in contact with the people that hunt with them. I will see if I can ask my friends about how the patterdales are in the house and see if I can't get some feedback for you. They seem pretty levelheaded. I also think they have not gained in popularity so much yet as to be ruined. They are so very handsome I think it may be a danger.


Thanks a lot, Holden. I agree both patts and jagds are awesome looking dogs and I'm sure I'd enjoy raising one in the house. 

I'll be disappointed if mine's not a little nutty.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I've seen a lot of the small terriers around the place here, they're mostly all little shits ! The jrts have to be one of the most fun breeds around though, they can be super hyper around the place so a good remedy for that is to get two so they have a play pal if they aren't working regularly. They make good house pets if you're active and know what you're doing, and they make incredible wee buddies....no hard training required.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Dave getting a third??? You getting a DS? [-o<


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Bob, did your Pete pass away or has he gone to live with your boy?


Pete has lived with my son Jeff ever since his house was broken into. That was about three yrs ago.
At 15 +, mostly deaf, blind in one eye, his terrier heart took him on a squirrel chase in front of the son's house. One laps in watching him and Pete took on a car and lost. 
I could go into all sorts of rant about that laps but Jeff knows it and feels terrible. 
I hugged him and told him how sorry I was.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Pete has lived with my son Jeff ever since his house was broken into. That was about three yrs ago.
> At 15 +, mostly deaf, blind in one eye, his terrier heart took him on a squirrel chase in front of the son's house. One laps in watching him and Pete took on a car and lost.
> I could go into all sorts of rant about that laps but Jeff knows it and feels terrible.
> I hugged him and told him how sorry I was.


I'm sorry to hear that Bob, I lost my wee guy of fourteen yrs only a few weeks ago, was pretty sudden too. Kicks the heart right out of you the wee guys !


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> I'm sorry to hear that Bob, I lost my wee guy of fourteen yrs only a few weeks ago, was pretty sudden too. Kicks the heart right out of you the wee guys !



People that have never had one can never understand that 100lb heart in a 14 lb body and that heart is 100% given to you.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> People that have never had one can never understand that 100lb heart in a 14 lb body and that heart is 100% given to you.


Absolutely ! I'm gonna go and bawl my eyes out again =;.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> I'm sorry to hear that Bob, I lost my wee guy of fourteen yrs only a few weeks ago, was pretty sudden too. Kicks the heart right out of you the wee guys !


Sorry to hear that Maggie.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I will have to add this about terriers if you have never had one. If you are the type that obsesses about having total control, Terriers are not for you. There is a certain amount of give and take in a good relationship with a terrier. They will do anything for you....but you have to accept that they are terriers. That is what people that don't like terriers can't handle. It is more a partnership than an "I am the boss 24/7" thing. You just can't take that thing that makes them terriers away from them or you got nothing.


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## Christine Meyer (Jul 14, 2011)

I think somebody was mentioning me - I just joined, having Irish Terriers. Hunting-wise, my first and second Irishes are from west australian lines, and bred to be a bit softer to match suburbia a bit better. My third Duke, is from the other side of Australia, and he is not bred down. He is actually a bit too much dog for most people (which is why I now have him). He hunts and kills cats (does not make me popular, but I did tell the neighbours to keep their cat out of my backyard), birds, mice. It moves - he's after it. And once he's after it, nothing else exists until he is convinced it is lost, or it is dead. Regardless of any injuries sustained.

That also includes intruders at night, although to date, they seem to have got out of my backyard in one piece.

As a housedog - they are pretty good, as long as you are consistent with the rules. I forget who typed "convince them that it is fun, and they will give you the world", but that is truly correct. There is very little capacity to back down from a dispute with another dog, so you do need to be ready to interupt some of their discussions - even though my female is bred to be much softer, they forgot to increase that back down capacity - they have a sense of humour and it will generally be at your expense.

Good dogs to handle at the vets, it takes a lot for them to want to bite vets. Which is good, because Duke is a frequent visitor there.

Christine.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I will have to add this about terriers if you have never had one. If you are the type that obsesses about having total control, Terriers are not for you. There is a certain amount of give and take in a good relationship with a terrier. They will do anything for you....but you have to accept that they are terriers. That is what people that don't like terriers can't handle. *It is more a partnership than an "I am the boss 24/7" thing.* You just can't take that thing that makes them terriers away from them or you got nothing.


Maybe more of a philosophical question, but could that not apply to a lot of dogs? I get that Terriers NEED more of a partnership than a dominating type relationship (well, at least as much as a non-Terrier guy on a message board can, I suppose, it makes sense at least). However, just wondering aloud if that might make dog-to-handler relationships better across the board in a lot of breeds or individual dogs (although I'm sure a lot probably already view it or interact that way, so maybe nothing really original or groundbreaking here).

Regarding the OP and topic, can't Kerry Blue Terriers be pretty dog aggressive, or are they pretty composed? Very handsome dogs, but if so that might be a consideration as a third dog.

-Cheers


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Ruby said:


> Maybe more of a philosophical question, but could that not apply to a lot of dogs? I get that Terriers NEED more of a partnership than a dominating type relationship (well, at least as much as a non-Terrier guy on a message board can, I suppose, it makes sense at least). However, just wondering aloud if that might make dog-to-handler relationships better across the board in a lot of breeds or individual dogs (although I'm sure a lot probably already view it or interact that way, so maybe nothing really original or groundbreaking here).
> 
> Regarding the OP and topic, can't Kerry Blue Terriers be pretty dog aggressive, or are they pretty composed? Very handsome dogs, but if so that might be a consideration as a third dog.
> 
> -Cheers



Kerrys were one of those all purpose farm dogs. Work the stock, hunt the badger and fight in the pits behind the bars on friday nights. They can be very aggressive but that's also about lines and your ability to control.
My male was "reasonable" easy going around other dogs. My bitch was...well..a bitch. Same with my brother's Kerry. He went High In Trial his very first AKC OB competition and that took a ton of work.
He got the HIT the same show that another Kerry went Best In Show. We tried to get a pic of the two Kerrys together. Never happened! :lol:
The grooming sucks! Soft, single coat that needs lots of grooming or it tangles and will collect burrs and crap like it was velcro.


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## Sheena Tarrant (Sep 21, 2008)

I keep thinking that I'd like to learn more about Border Terriers while living near the area they originated. They're hugely popular here, but a lot seem to be quite a bit larger than what I understood to be the accepted size. Seem like fun little dogs.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sheena Tarrant said:


> I keep thinking that I'd like to learn more about Border Terriers while living near the area they originated. They're hugely popular here, but a lot seem to be quite a bit larger than what I understood to be the accepted size. Seem like fun little dogs.




Finding a "correct" sized Border is very hard. Most will be in the 15-20 lb +.
In the hundreds I've seen very few were of the 12-14 lb size.
Keeping structure and soundness is easier with a bit of size.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> *Kerrys were one of those all purpose farm dogs.* Work the stock, hunt the badger and fight in the pits behind the bars on friday nights. They can be very aggressive but that's also about lines and your ability to control.


Makes sense. Sounds like a nice overall dog though. I like the all-purpose utillitarian type of breeds.

-Cheers


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

This thread has already given me a lot to look/watch out for in terrier breeding programs. The Kerry sounds like a very interesting dog but they are larger than I ideally want in a hunting dog and unless my girlfriend would regularly groom him he'd have shit all over him..

Don, out of the smaller terrier breeds I'm considering do you think any are more controllable, or capable of handling heavier control, than Airedale's or the larger terrier breeds? I like full control over all my dogs but I'll never kill a dog's spirit. Just tell me Jagds and Patterdales, even Borders, aren't really canine versions of cats [-(


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Dave, if you want full control over your dogs, includinmg terriers. I would go with the hunt terrier. :grin: keep us posted .


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Dave Martin said:


> This thread has already given me a lot to look/watch out for in terrier breeding programs. The Kerry sounds like a very interesting dog but they are larger than I ideally want in a hunting dog and unless my girlfriend would regularly groom him he'd have shit all over him..
> 
> Don, out of the smaller terrier breeds I'm considering do you think any are more controllable, or capable of handling heavier control, than Airedale's or the larger terrier breeds? I like full control over all my dogs but I'll never kill a dog's spirit. Just tell me Jagds and Patterdales, even Borders, aren't really canine versions of cats [-(



As with any breed your going to find all sorts of temperments/qualities. It's just a matter of looking into it like you would if you wanted another good rotty.
Jagds, for instance have the reputation of being quite nasty around 
"anything". I've not seen that in the half dozen I've seen in the hunt field.
I know of a line of Borders (back a few years though) that had dog aggressive Borders.
I look at "heavy" control differently then "correct" control. Both can be physical but "correct" is all about timing and fairness.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> As with any breed your going to find all sorts of temperments/qualities. It's just a matter of looking into it like you would if you wanted another good rotty.
> Jagds, for instance have the reputation of being quite nasty around
> "anything". I've not seen that in the half dozen I've seen in the hunt field.
> I know of a line of Borders (back a few years though) that had dog aggressive Borders.
> I look at "heavy" control differently then "correct" control. Both can be physical but "correct" is all about timing and fairness.


That is a fact, but with terriers, you have to be fair. I am not easy on my dogs, but I am fair, they know in a heartbeat when they have crossed the line and accept the correction. They are smart dogs, every type of terrier I have seen, and are usually a couple of steps ahead of the owner. Took me about 5 years to realise they were way ahead of me. That is when I started really studying them. Most everyone says they learned more about dogs and training from their first terrier than any other dog they worked with....take that to the bank. There are times you want to kill them....that is when you pull it all together and figure out what they are telling you. Makes life much easier. By the way, I was joking about the hunt terrier. Of all the terriers, that is them last one I would have. A good JRT would be an experience. But, I still am attracted to the patts.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Rags was my first Border and he taught me a lot about anger management. :lol: 
The Pattys go back to a fair amount of bully breed. the Stafordshire Bull Terrier mostly.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My all time fav Superbowl commercial (Border terrier)

This guy is a terrier man. Nothing fancy but giterdone! 
Funny thing is I doubt a Border terrier would ever bite a man for much of any reason. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFg3HBMJyV4


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> My all time fav Superbowl commercial (Border terrier)
> 
> This guy is a terrier man. Nothing fancy but giterdone!
> Funny thing is I doubt a Border terrier would ever bite a man for much of any reason.
> ...


AH-hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Love it!


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

My mom has a JRT and he is an absolute beast. She has 2 other "yard dogs" that are good sized dogs the JRT just runs there ass. I've had a discussion on here about him before because he liked to chase people down the street. My uncle died and my mom didn't want to send him to the pound so she kept him. He trees squirrels though and runs armadillos?sp and anything really that comes in or around the yard. You'll be sitting on the porch and all of a sudden his ears will perk up and he'll take off after something in the woods. He bayed up a possum one night and I shot it and you could tell he just loved it


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> As with any breed your going to find all sorts of temperments/qualities. It's just a matter of looking into it like you would if you wanted another good rotty.
> Jagds, for instance have the reputation of being quite nasty around
> "anything". I've not seen that in the half dozen I've seen in the hunt field.
> I know of a line of Borders (back a few years though) that had dog aggressive Borders.
> I look at "heavy" control differently then "correct" control. Both can be physical but "correct" is all about timing and fairness.


I hear you, Bob. I'm looking forward to working with a dog with a different mindset. Patts are definitely drawing me the most. I couldn't agree more with fair and consistent training and no question timing is everything.


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

You are getting some great feedback. I talked to the patterdale people and both said (to my surprise) that the dogs are actually very quiet in the house, have a great "off switch". I had no idea they had staffie in them. The staffies seem to be good in the house also. Also what Bob said, make sure you really check out the lines of whatever you go with. And yes it is true, if you get a terrier, be prepared to get creative about training. Stuff that works great for regualr dogs may not work at all for a terrier. It may balance out a little because he or she might pick up certain things faster than you ever thought possible. If you like to have fun and have a sense of humor, you will not regret getting one.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Dave Martin said:


> I hear you, Bob. I'm looking forward to working with a dog with a different mindset. Patts are definitely drawing me the most. I couldn't agree more with fair and consistent training and no question timing is everything.


I am not sure what you mean by, "Timing is everything?" Dave.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I am not sure what you mean by, "Timing is everything?" Dave.


In dog training, especially with commands I want precise and consistent, I believe the timing of a correction/reward is paramount.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Why would you want a terrier for training purposes ? Didn't you know you can't train the terrier out 'a terrier ?

Holden said it.. "If you like to have fun and have a sense of humor, you will not regret getting one."


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> Why would you want a terrier for training purposes ? Didn't you know you can't train the terrier out 'a terrier?


Serious question? I absolutely do not want a terrier for training purposes, as I am assuming you are using the word "training". I plan to continue "training" in sport venues such as Schutzhund, with the breeds that can do well in them. I am exploring terrier breeds as I love the outdoors, love to hike and explore wooded areas, and believe I would love hunting vermin that causes problems. First and foremost, I think they're great looking dogs that would add a different dynamic to my household. This doesn't mean he/she wouldn't be trained to some level; to be a great household pet first and foremost, and from there, we'd see.. 

I'd like the record to show that I do indeed have a sense of humor. \\/ <---- see


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> Serious question? I absolutely do not want a terrier for training purposes, as I am assuming you are using the word "training". I plan to continue "training" in sport venues such as Schutzhund, with the breeds that can do well in them. I am exploring terrier breeds as I love the outdoors, love to hike and explore wooded areas, and believe I would love hunting vermin that causes problems. First and foremost, I think they're great looking dogs that would add a different dynamic to my household. This doesn't mean he/she wouldn't be trained to some level; to be a great household pet first and foremost, and the rest, we'd see..
> 
> I'd like the record to show that I do indeed have a sense of humor. \\/ <---- see


Get out the training mindset then if I were you and just get on enjoying being with a dog. It can be as easy as that if you are dog savvy when it comes to terriers.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> Get out the training mindset then if I were you and just get on enjoying being with a dog. It can be as easy as that if you are dog savvy when it comes to terriers.


Not sure if I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to say but if you're implying terriers can't be trained on any level than my eyes have certainly lied to me a lot over the past few weeks.

Has one of my comments led you to believe my current dogs are my employees and not my pets? I assure you, any dog I ever bring home as one of MY personal family dogs, will always be a loved pet that tells me how much training he/she can take without losing their natural born personality. I have no desire to make a lamb a lion or vice versa, that doesn't mean boundaries will be allowed to go ignored, terrier or not.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> Not sure if I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to say but if you're implying terriers can't be trained on any level than my eyes have certainly lied to me a lot over the past few weeks.
> 
> Has one of my comments led you to believe my current dogs are my employees and not my pets? I assure you, any dog I ever bring home as one of MY personal family dogs, will always be a loved pet that tells me how much training he/she can take without losing their natural born personality. I have no desire to make a lamb a lion or vice versa, that doesn't mean boundaries will be allowed to go ignored, terrier or not.


 
Well, I certainly didn't mean to offend you at all. Maybe it is the culture difference and by that I mean, a way of talking. And whilst we're at it....you sound way too much of a serious and precise type of person to fully enjoy the joys of a terrier for companionship as you say. Just get the bleeding dog, enjoy it and forget about hypothesising (sp). Forgive my abrupt manner, I'm Scottish you know.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> Well, I certainly didn't mean to offend you at all. Maybe it is the culture difference and by that I mean, a way of talking. And whilst we're at it....you sound way too much of a serious and precise type of person to fully enjoy the joys of a terrier for companionship as you say. Just get the bleeding dog, enjoy it and forget about hypothesising (sp). Forgive my abrupt manner, I'm Scottish you know.


LOL promise I'll post updates whenever I start this journey..


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Psssst! Dave! :-$ :-$ :-$
Don't tell Maggie but you CAN train a terrier. In the early/mid 80s my brother and I both had very competitive Kerry Blues in AKC OB. I LOVED kicking butt against the Goldens, Border Collies,etc. My first ever time in the ring (novice class) was a three day weekend of a GSD Specialty. 2nd, 3rd, 4th place were GSDs. First Place......ta daaaa! My Kerry Blue.
My brother's Kerry was high In Trial (HIT) the first time he ever went in the OB ring. His Kerry was undefeated to his CD title in OB AND his CH in the breed ring.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Quite the accomplishments, Bob. A couple of the most intelligent dogs I've met have been terriers.. crazy little clowns for sure, but shockingly intelligent nonetheless.


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## Maria Bartkowski (Aug 7, 2011)

Terriers can't be trained??? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
Watch this, that's my little Jack Russell Terrier doing Schutzhund! In Obedience as good as a Malinois:grin:...maybe better than the most...! 8) 

Obedience:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Dinochubbie


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Don't you lot go taking my post out of context now. I said you can't train the terrier out 'a terrier, (it's a quote you know :wink, I didn't say they couldn't be trained, hell I even trained my own. Ok, they may have been getting on in years but I did get there .


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Maria Bartkowski said:


> Terriers can't be trained??? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
> Watch this, that's my little Jack Russell Terrier doing Schutzhund! In Obedience as good as a Malinois:grin:...maybe better than the most...! 8)
> 
> Obedience:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/Dinochubbie


Great stuff, Maria, very nice work.

It's okayyy, maggie.. :grin: I knew the point you were trying to get across and I don't think you were wrong


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## Maria Bartkowski (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm sorry I didn't mean you were wrong. I come from germany an learned english at school. But I think I know what you mean. I think terriers can be very good and obedient in dogsport when you start very early! With 10 weeks they are very intelligent and really love to learn. They accept rules more easy when teached as young dogs. Maybe Piranha would be as stubborn as other terriers, but he loves working with me and he works out every command with a lot of fun. I don't have to be more strict than with my malinois. 

But most people start late with their terriers. They're such small an sweet an people don't want to be strict. But I've the terrier gets 1 year old and never learned rules it's really hard, because they can be stubborn an with a high aggressive potential.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Maria Bartkowski said:


> I'm sorry I didn't mean you were wrong. I come from germany an learned english at school. But I think I know what you mean. I think terriers can be very good and obedient in dogsport when you start very early! With 10 weeks they are very intelligent and really love to learn. They accept rules more easy when teached as young dogs. Maybe Piranha would be as stubborn as other terriers, but he loves working with me and he works out every command with a lot of fun. I don't have to be more strict than with my malinois.
> 
> But most people start late with their terriers. They're such small an sweet an people don't want to be strict. But I've the terrier gets 1 year old and never learned rules it's really hard, because they can be stubborn an with a high aggressive potential.


I'm only funning. I kept my jrts largely as companions and as pest control around the place, but as I also had gsds, my jrts learned very quickly. They never wore a leash for most of their lives, only when near traffic, never had probs in the home or a recall when out. The more one on one time I gave them...the more of a delight they became. I absolutely love jack russells!


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Maria Bartkowski said:


> Terriers can't be trained??? :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
> Watch this, that's my little Jack Russell Terrier doing Schutzhund! In Obedience as good as a Malinois:grin:...maybe better than the most...! 8)
> 
> Obedience:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/Dinochubbie


I know this jrt video has been poster before (it's an oldie but goodie, lol)

But they're not too bad at bitework either! :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Maria Bartkowski said:


> I'm sorry I didn't mean you were wrong. I come from germany an learned english at school. But I think I know what you mean. I think terriers can be very good and obedient in dogsport when you start very early! With 10 weeks they are very intelligent and really love to learn. They accept rules more easy when teached as young dogs. Maybe Piranha would be as stubborn as other terriers, but he loves working with me and he works out every command with a lot of fun. I don't have to be more strict than with my malinois.


 
I would say so.. Claudia lives here in Mass. Been to one of her training seminars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Ha...Anna you beat me to it! :grin:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I never get tired of watching that vid...it's great! I would take along my jrt whilst training schH with the gsd and give him an ob session. He did really well even though he was about ten yrs at that time, he would always just hang off the tug though.


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## Maria Bartkowski (Aug 7, 2011)

Oh yes I wathched about 100 times the video of Claudia and Mr. Murphy. When Piranha was a puppy we watched it together... and Malinois championchips... 

Some more Videos: 
Piranha Bitework: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxXVEdDb8Ws 

Piranha 2 years old: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4cnE2tExOk


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Here's another long-time favorite of mine that Tim Martens posted years ago. You'll have to supply your own soundtrack now, I see, but it's worth it. :lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A2ZV_C0BRM


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## Maria Bartkowski (Aug 7, 2011)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Here's another long-time favorite of mine that Tim Martens posted years ago. You'll have to supply your own soundtrack now, I see, but it's worth it. :lol:
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A2ZV_C0BRM


Very nice.:wink: 

I collect videos with terriers at schutzhund on my youtube playlist "hunde". There are also some good ones.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Don't you lot go taking my post out of context now. I said you can't train the terrier out 'a terrier, (it's a quote you know :wink, I didn't say they couldn't be trained, hell I even trained my own. Ok, they may have been getting on in years but I did get there .



Just messing with you Maggie. I know exactly what you mean about training the terrier out 'a the terrier. Do it wrong and you get a broken dog or a monster. Not much inbetween for the little shits! ;-)


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

My Russell was a fine dog but one thing I am not hearing in this thread was how Terriers(imo), can tend to be the proverbial One Man Dog.
My Russell would obey me but for the wife , the kids or anyone else..Forget it.
Throw in a fierce hunt drive that one gate left unattended for a few moments could lead to days gone and general willingness to take on anything including my KNPV Bouvier it was a interesting education in the joys and perils of a strong Russell.
If I lived on a few acres in suburbia or the country , I would never be without one as they are a eradication machine of vermin and pests.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jeff Wright said:


> My Russell was a fine dog but one thing I am not hearing in this thread was how Terriers(imo), can tend to be the proverbial One Man Dog.


I don't know if I agree with that, ever had a gsd ? My last jrt was an opportunist turncoat until about three yrs when he became a one man dog. Another I had, was a one man dog from around a few months old. Depends on the dog.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> I don't know if I agree with that, ever had a gsd ? My last jrt was an opportunist turncoat until about three yrs when he became a one man dog. Another I had, was a one man dog from around a few months old. *Depends on the dog.*



I'm kinda thinking the same.

The only terriers I know really well are Border Terriers, though.


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## Meghan Rabon (Feb 10, 2009)

I have not read the whole thread but thought I'd share my experience with my JRT. He has a wonderful temperament!
He is super smart, has great focus, and will do anything for a treat, so he has been so easy to train. He is a bit sensitive so I use mostly +R with him, but his obedience is great for a terrier! I do rally obedience with him right now and he is really great. He retrieves, does directed jumps, signal excercises, and his heeling is very focused and happy.

Here is a video of one of his rally runs from last weekend...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1QA-WT799Y
It was soo hot and humid and this was his 6th run of the day but he was still pretty up and happy! I do not take him to any classes - just train him in my backyard and bring him out to trials and he works great. He has been in the ribbons almost every time out, against all breeds, and in some classes with 25+ dogs.

In the house, he is not hyper, he settles pretty nicely.

He is not afraid of anything and will take on any critter that challenges him. I have 2 cats - one will hiss/swat at him and he wants to kill that cat, but the other cat just ignores him and he doesn't pay any attention to it.
With dogs - he won't start a fight or cause trouble, but will not back down from a fight either and will take on dogs many times his size. So I do have to watch him. With people, he is a sweetheart, loves everyone, and there is not an aggressive bone in his body. He would be happy to go home with anyone that has a treat.

I have fallen in love with the breed and am hoping to get a little female JRT in the near future.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Most all the terriers I've had would happily go home with anyone that fed them.
Fact is, I think a lot of people would get their little hearts broken if the knew just how fast their dogs would switch loyalties. Look at the Police K9s for instance. Often grown dogs when the cops get them but within a few weeks they are bonded to a new owner.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Most all the terriers I've had would happily go home with anyone that fed them.



The Border Terriers in my family definitely fall into that opportunistic category. :lol:

Affectionate, loyal, and with always a keen eye out for Number One. :lol: :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

From a hunting standpoint I've pulled many, many terriers that hadn't even seen me up to that day, out of the ground. Very easy handlers with a stranger. 
I will never again pull a mini Daschund I don't know out of the ground. :lol:


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## Jeff Wright (Mar 10, 2011)

I guess I should have qualifie that statement about my Russell being a one man dog. He would only OBEY one person and that was me. He can and did go home with people at the drop of the hat and was very affectionate to anyone but racoons ,cats and Possums. But he had very selective hearing when it came to obeying anything he didn't fell like doing. quite a character.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Wright said:


> I guess I should have qualifie that statement about my Russell being a one man dog. He would only OBEY one person and that was me. He can and did go home with people at the drop of the hat and was very affectionate to anyone but racoons ,cats and Possums. But he had very selective hearing when it came to obeying anything he didn't fell like doing. quite a character.


Oh, yes, I agree with all this, with regard to the Border Terriers I have known. LOL


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

Bob Scott said:


> I will never again pull a mini Daschund I don't know out of the ground. :lol:


I wouldn't either.


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