# Linebreeding Zep (Kees)



## Bernt Lundby (Mar 27, 2009)

My female: (puppy picture) http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/53684/Zep-LOSH-873694-(Verbunt)

Zep: http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/193567/Icenta van Joefarm/

My female Icenta is a grand daughter of Zep. The inbreeding coefficient is 14% if she mates with him. Zep is an exceptionally large, strong ring dog (BR1, MR3) and has produced a lot of good ring dogs when mated with various females. His pedigree is not correct (NVBK lines). I have trained with Kees the last 18 months and decoyed his dogs (Zep offspring), Neal Wallice also has a Zep daughter here in my club. So I think I have a picture of what is typical from Zep.

My female (around 65 pounds) is ready for MR1 this spring at 24 months. Also done some basic object guard, transport etc. Has A hips, does all jumps at maximum (also pallisade), is balanced with good drives, grip and resilience (environmentally and to corrections). She is also a fast learner. She has about average speed for a good mal (not a french rocket). She is a grand daughter of Elgos as well, something that I believe has given her a natural grip and intelligence (learns very fast).

The typical traits of Zep I have seen in his his offspring is courage, lack of nerviness, large heads, resilience and sometimes handler aggro. Zep himself has become untrainable because of aggro/conflict. Zep himself has B hips, and has occationally produced puppies with C hips. Most of his offspring are A however.

What do you experienced breeders think about such linebreeding. Is it too close? Kees himself is open to it, but thinks it is "pretty close" and that perhaps I should balance the breeding with a male that is more willing to please than my female or I risk producing dogs that are difficult to train. I am trying to enhance the main characteristics of Zep in such breeding.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

This is what I call a "down the line" breeding. Maybe this litter is good, but "down the line" it is great.

Too many people are shooting for the whole thing each and every litter, and will never go anywhere because of that.


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## Bernt Lundby (Mar 27, 2009)

Added: My females father (Debou) is probably Zep's best offspring Kees says. He placed 4th in last years MR3 WC. He is not a social dog, and is handler hard/aggro. To fix food refusal issues they have gone so far as to place sausages on wires in the grass from electric fence but it is still a problem...

Jeff, you are probably right. I have been reading a bit about line breeding and I was hoping for more predictability. I am not a breeder however so I will not be able to keep breeding on selected linebred strains.


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## Bernt Lundby (Mar 27, 2009)

So "hobby-breading" is suboptimal to start off with. Do you find it a waste of time to use linebreeding principles in planning such breedings and instead find it just as good or better just to combine different good lines?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The problem is that you do not know what you will produce until you have bred the dog. It is a problem that everyone faces. You breed to Zep, and maybe you get some pups that are way too much in the handler aggression. That is a problem.

If I were you just doing the one time lets see breeding, I would probably stay away from breeding to that dog. Try and find a dog that is phenotypically the same sort of dog without the handler aggression.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Jeff has some good points and so does Kees. Can't give you help cause I don't know zep personally but I had a granddaughter that was a very nice dog. Huge grips, civil, large, with A hips, great food drive. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Mila Fohl (Jun 15, 2009)

I don't know if yes or no, but I know that your inbreeding coeffitient is wrong because you don't know the lines behind parents of your female and Zep. For example mother of Shiwa has to be sister of mother of Lucas... don't believe working-dog pedigrees.
But for me is it simply, if you want Zep-like dogs, then make breeding with him, if you want something else, you must go somewhere else.
Sorry for my english...
Best regards from Czech


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Sure you have the real ped. If not I do and you can PM me for it.


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