# Veterinary Coalition to Target Drop in Client Visits DVM 360 Oct. 1, 2010[b]Veterinar



## Kris L. Christine (Mar 25, 2009)

*Veterinary Coalition to Target Drop in Client Visits*_ DVM NEWSMAGAZINE _October 1, 2010 http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Breaking+News/Veterinary-coalition-to-target-drop-in-client-visi/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/688915?contextCategoryId=47831

A couple of quotes from the article:  "*At presstime, a planning meeting is slated for November to bring leaders in practice and industry together in an attempt to carve out a series of strategies to help reverse a trend of dwindling client visits.* *" *

*"**Heartworm prevention represents a huge opportunity for practitioners, Payne says, especially if the profession can improve compliance rates and convert pet owners who are not currently giving heartworm preventives to their pets. In fact, he believes a wholesale push could offset losses from flea and tick product revenue for practices.* *"*


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Kris L. Christine said:


> *Veterinary Coalition to Target Drop in Client Visits*_ DVM NEWSMAGAZINE _October 1, 2010 http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Breaking+News/Veterinary-coalition-to-target-drop-in-client-visi/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/688915?contextCategoryId=47831
> 
> A couple of quotes from the article: "*At presstime, a planning meeting is slated for November to bring leaders in practice and industry together in an attempt to carve out a series of strategies to help reverse a trend of dwindling client visits.* *" *
> 
> *"**Heartworm prevention represents a huge opportunity for practitioners, Payne says, especially if the profession can improve compliance rates and convert pet owners who are not currently giving heartworm preventives to their pets. In fact, he believes a wholesale push could offset losses from flea and tick product revenue for practices.* *"*


 
Heartworm medicine is WAY OVERPRICED and a big money maker for the vets! Anyone that has a multiple dog household knows how expensive it gets really fast, especially for the larger breeds. Thats why I, as well as many others, buy and use Ivomec(Ivermectin) injectable 1% sterile solution for cattle and swine. A 50ml bottle costs roughly $35. 
Dilute Ivomec (you want the 1% injectable Ivomec for cattle) one part Ivomec to 9 parts propylene glycol....then give the dog 1/10 of a cc per 10 lbs. of dog of this solution (a 40 lb. dog gets 4/10 of a cc.) I think propylene glycol is what the ivermectin is diluted with to begin with, so you can mix up a bottle of this and just keep it handy (doesn't have to be freshly mixed each time.) This is just about the same dosage the dog would be getting in Heartgard, except that it is more accurately calibrated to the dog's weight (cause it's dosed for every 10 lbs, instead of the Heartgard 51-100 lbs. where everybody gets the same dose.) You should measure dose with a 1cc syringe, also called a tuberculin syringe, because this is measured in tenths so is much easier to measure accurately than in a larger syringe. 
If memory serves me correctly, collies are one of the breeds sometimes more susceptible to ivermectin, so keep that in mind. However, if you have been using Heartgard regularly, then as I said this dosage of ivermectin would be about the same or maybe even less thsn they've been getting in Heartgard tablet, depending on how much your dog weighs. Some people give a much stronger dose two or three times a year, of 1/10 of a cc. of the Ivomec per 10 lbs. of a dog (not diluted first with the propylene glycol) because this strength also kills whipworms and hookworms. But if there is ANY question about ivermectin sensitivity, keep in mind that this higher concentration is about 10 times the dose of Heargard! This dose was calculated by a vet and then my old vet confirmed it. Some people just give the 1/10 cc per 10 lbs once a month also. The dose of ivermectin for demodex is much higher, so don't get all crazy of an overdose. http://www.sheltermedicine.vet.cornell.edu//shelter/Ivermectin/demodex.htm


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I love posts like this. I don't think the article in that mag was meant for the pet public. They even plot on how to get your money behind closed doors. LMAO. I just HW'ed mine yesterday. I use the 1% cattle solution.


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## Mara Jessup (Sep 7, 2010)

I wouldn't mind buying HW meds from my vet if the mark-up on them wasn't so exorbitant. Sheesh I could pay $2-$3 /pill even and be fine with that. I don't think it's the fault of the vets so much, but of the industry . I think it's good to support them when possible, after all they are the ones that I can call when something comes up. They work me right in and I appreciate that. 
My vet also has no issue writing up a prescription for me to take to Wal-Mart or were ever to get filled if I ask for it. (Though I did notice a sign in their office last time I stopped by that they will no longer fax in prescriptions) So I don't mind paying a little extra there for some things because I want to support them for the other services they offer me. But when I can buy HW meds for 1/2 price through valley vet. Or buy a little bottle of ivermectin sheep drench for $20 that will dose 3 dogs for 2 years. Well, that's telling me that the industry is taking advantage of consumers.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> Heartworm medicine is WAY OVERPRICED and a big money maker for the vets! Anyone that has a multiple dog household knows how expensive it gets really fast, especially for the larger breeds. Thats why I, as well as many others, buy and use Ivomec(Ivermectin) injectable 1% sterile solution for cattle and swine. A 50ml bottle costs roughly $35.
> Dilute Ivomec (you want the 1% injectable Ivomec for cattle) one part Ivomec to 9 parts propylene glycol....then give the dog 1/10 of a cc per 10 lbs. of dog of this solution (a 40 lb. dog gets 4/10 of a cc.) I think propylene glycol is what the ivermectin is diluted with to begin with, so you can mix up a bottle of this and just keep it handy (doesn't have to be freshly mixed each time.) This is just about the same dosage the dog would be getting in Heartgard, except that it is more accurately calibrated to the dog's weight (cause it's dosed for every 10 lbs, instead of the Heartgard 51-100 lbs. where everybody gets the same dose.) You should measure dose with a 1cc syringe, also called a tuberculin syringe, because this is measured in tenths so is much easier to measure accurately than in a larger syringe.
> If memory serves me correctly, collies are one of the breeds sometimes more susceptible to ivermectin, so keep that in mind. However, if you have been using Heartgard regularly, then as I said this dosage of ivermectin would be about the same or maybe even less thsn they've been getting in Heartgard tablet, depending on how much your dog weighs. Some people give a much stronger dose two or three times a year, of 1/10 of a cc. of the Ivomec per 10 lbs. of a dog (not diluted first with the propylene glycol) because this strength also kills whipworms and hookworms. But if there is ANY question about ivermectin sensitivity, keep in mind that this higher concentration is about 10 times the dose of Heargard! This dose was calculated by a vet and then my old vet confirmed it. Some people just give the 1/10 cc per 10 lbs once a month also. The dose of ivermectin for demodex is much higher, so don't get all crazy of an overdose. http://www.sheltermedicine.vet.cornell.edu//shelter/Ivermectin/demodex.htm


You're right, Collies, border collies, and yes, some German Shepherds and other "herding" breeds can carry a gene mutation that doesn't mesh well with Ivermectin and causes a major reaction - vomiting, seizure, coma/death, etc - though both my GSD's use Ivermectin and I've never seen an adverse reaction.

I use Noromectin (Ivermectin generic from the vet supply place) It's 1% for cattle and swine, 50 mL bottle for...I think I paid $30. The lady at the vet supply said Ivomec was the same thing exactly with a higher price tag and sold me this. I don't dilute it though with anything and give it as 1 cc per 100 lbs - same as 1/10th of a cc per 10 lbs. There is no way I could afford Heartgard monthly. I also only dose for HW during the spring/summer here in CO, but dosed year round in NY - once every 45 days.

I saw this posted a couple of days ago on Facebook (dog food project posted it) and someone was arguing about how Heartgard is a preventative - someone want to explain that one to me? I mean, a preventative is an immunization, made to keep the person/animal from ever catching the actual disease (like parvo) - but as far as I know, HW meds don't "prevent" microfilaria, they just kill it before it turns into actual heartworms.
So it "prevents" heartworms but by killing the baby parasites off before they can totally infest - it's not an actual preventative AFAIK.

I think vets take advantage of small animal owners. If they told a local cattle rancher they were going to charge him the price of Heartgard to treat per cow for worms - they'd probably tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine, whereas most "pet" people aren't as animal saavy about minor treatments, just IMO though.


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

You do realize that veterinary medicine is a business? I love my job, and work with people as best I can about finances....but at the end of the day...I still have to make money for the people that employ me so they can pay for the hospital I work in, pay for the equipment I use, pay the support staff, and yes...even give me a paycheck at the end of the week. We have new magazines, conferences and business meetings about how to better serve the public, our patients, and at the end of the day still make sure we are financially secure. The same thing could be said of human medicine and every other business out there.
PS> For the normal pet dog owner, using premade heartworm prevention is safe and easy...and it's use should be pushed considering the devastation the disease causes. 
I will get off my soap box now :razz:


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Yeah, like human doctors aren't crooks either...I've seen some of my medical bills, that, thank God, Tricare has paid for - and the charges are outrageous and so is the mark up. 
Example, last year, my middle child got into a bottle of my prescription medication (child proof my ass) the stuff is bad for you, he was taken by ambulance 6 miles to the hospital.
Total bill? $967 - charges for "personal care" in the range of $300. Took them all of like 15 minutes to get down there, no IV no oxygen - got there and the nurse sent him home because poison control was wrong and he needed to eat 160 pills for a bad effect - he'd snagged 5. 

Sorry, but vet or human doctor, you can't tell me that some of the charges are absolutely ridiculous and marked up 500%. There is a reason that my dr in AZ drove a Lexus and had a Mercedes also - and it wasn't for just being a good samaritan. I'm not saying they can't make a living, but come on - you can't tell me that Heartgard costs THAT much to manufacture when the main ingredient in it costs $30 for a 2 year supply.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Gina Pasieka said:


> You do realize that veterinary medicine is a business? I love my job, and work with people as best I can about finances....but at the end of the day...I still have to make money for the people that employ me so they can pay for the hospital I work in, pay for the equipment I use, pay the support staff, and yes...even give me a paycheck at the end of the week. We have new magazines, conferences and business meetings about how to better serve the public, our patients, and at the end of the day still make sure we are financially secure. The same thing could be said of human medicine and every other business out there.
> PS> For the normal pet dog owner, using premade heartworm prevention is safe and easy...and it's use should be pushed considering the devastation the disease causes.
> I will get off my soap box now :razz:


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4&feature=player_embedded#!


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

This is a business model followed by many , restraunts , grocery stores coffee shops , phone stores , on and on . They are all either strongly encouraged or even required to try and sell you something more . Consumers do have some power to discourage this type of stuff . 

For me if I frequent a place that does this I have on many occassins told them that if they didn't stop trying to sell me something I didn't ask for I'm going to bring my business someplace else . It's amazing how effective that is .


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

This is crazy. Why shouldn't MDs and vets drive a Lexus or Mercedes and make a decent living wage? Is there something in the oath that says they don't deserve to drive nice cars or make decent money?

How about a lawyer or an insurance professional? What cars are they allowed to drive and what is the limit on their income beyond which they are going to be labeled as crooks? While we are on the subject, let me know what an architect and a dentist is allowed too. IF you could point me in the direction of the official acceptable income/car list, that would really help me out.

Just askin.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jim Nash said:


> This is a business model followed by many , restraunts , grocery stores coffee shops , phone stores , on and on . They are all either strongly encouraged or even required to try and sell you something more . Consumers do have some power to discourage this type of stuff .
> 
> For me if I frequent a place that does this I have on many occassins told them that if they didn't stop trying to sell me something I didn't ask for I'm going to bring my business someplace else . It's amazing how effective that is .



 NO! If I wanted cheese on my hamburger I would have asked for a damn hamburger! ](*,)


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I have no problem with vets making good money, it is the BS procedures the sucker people into to get it. That is my grip. Aside from all the add ons when you get the bill. I look at the bill and tell them I didn't order all this other stuff they decided I needed. I used to always tell them I didn't ask to supersize this bill.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> This is crazy. Why shouldn't MDs and vets drive a Lexus or Mercedes and make a decent living wage? Is there something in the oath that says they don't deserve to drive nice cars or make decent money?
> 
> How about a lawyer or an insurance professional? What cars are they allowed to drive and what is the limit on their income beyond which they are going to be labeled as crooks? While we are on the subject, let me know what an architect and a dentist is allowed too. IF you could point me in the direction of the official acceptable income/car list, that would really help me out.
> 
> Just askin.


Show me where I said they don't deserve to earn a living? Oh wait, you can't because I specifically said "I'm not saying they shouldn't earn a living" - but they damn sure shouldn't be earning a living by over-charging me and my insurance and everyone else. If that's how they are making money, they don't deserve to drive a Mercedes because they're screwing me and my insurance. By the way, hope you know that if you live in the US, YOU are paying for my insurance since it's Tricare (federal health insurance - not welfare) - So next time you see the taxes coming out of your paycheck, think about how much you want a doctor to gouge my insurance on medical care, since YOU are paying for it. Same applies to a vet, if you were paying my vet bills, would you want that vet to do anything unnecessary and bill more?

NOBODY deserves to earn a living off of gouging others. PERIOD.

Also, I've never seen a vet that drove anything that nice, they aren't on the spectrum of making over $100k a year in most cases like a MD or DO is, they also don't typically get the luxury of being able to bill an insurance company instead of just the client.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I have no problem with vets making good money, it is the BS procedures the sucker people into to get it. That is my grip. Aside from all the add ons when you get the bill. I look at the bill and tell them I didn't order all this other stuff they decided I needed. I used to always tell them I didn't ask to supersize this bill.



I can see where it's tough for some that the vet they have may be the only one around for miles . But if you have choices many businesses , vets included , will tow the line if they know they may lose you as a customer . 

I don't know why it's so tough for people to just say "no I don't want that and don't ask me again ." . Hell , women have been saying that to me for years but they can't go to a store without being talked into buying a top to go with the pants they just bought .


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I do take pups to the vet for hjealth certs, and umbilical hernias. Last time I took one to a vet in Fresno They handed me a bill for $300 bucks. I said last time I brought 3 in it was $180 for all 3. She said they had a new partner. I said OK. I see antibiotics for the pups stomack, a parvo test, and a parvo test kit....none of which I ordered. What happened was, when I went in I was taking care of them so they would keep the pup away from any other pups they had in back. I told them the pup may have been exposed to parvo so they might want to keep him separate. My pups are immune to iot but I still thought it would be nice if I gave them a heads up. That backfired. So, I am in a full waiting room so I asked if they pad all the bills for $100 bucks plus. I told them all the people sitting in this room can fend for themselves, but, when I come in for something specific....that is all I want done. I told them to keep all the medication and test kits and take anything not associated to what I wanted off the bill. . What amazed me is that we had already done this several times and everytime they act like I am trying to fleece them. The bill ended up about $180.


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## Mara Jessup (Sep 7, 2010)

Gina Pasieka said:


> PS> For the normal pet dog owner, using premade heartworm prevention is safe and easy...and it's use should be pushed considering the devastation the disease causes.


 Totally understand and agree with that. But why is a relatively cheap drug so expensive when it's sold to dog owners instead of farmers??? Someone is making a much larger than average profit. Don't know if it's the vets, the manufactures or both. But I do know it's someone. I totally agree that my vet is running a business and certainly needs to be earning a decent paycheck and paying for overhead. But unless I'm totally missing something, HW meds could be sold at 1/3 the cost and everyone could still make a profit.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> This is crazy. Why shouldn't MDs and vets drive a Lexus or Mercedes and make a decent living wage? Is there something in the oath that says they don't deserve to drive nice cars or make decent money?
> 
> How about a lawyer or an insurance professional? What cars are they allowed to drive and what is the limit on their income beyond which they are going to be labeled as crooks? While we are on the subject, let me know what an architect and a dentist is allowed too. IF you could point me in the direction of the official acceptable income/car list, that would really help me out.
> 
> ...


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

OH, and before someone chimes in the cost of Med school and blablabla....we(nurses) have to keep UTD with our knowledge with lots of classes, traveling, etc(licensing requirement). Plus, we have to carry malpractice insurance just like they do, we get sued just as much.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I gotta ask since we are discussing monies made. Go to most any dog board. Breeders are suppose to breed for love and the good of the breed. 90 % of the people share this opinion. I have even been thoroghly chastized and questioned here on this board has to why I only have to work half time at a job in between taking care of 20 to 30 dogs. The reality is, I would have made a lot more money working full time and forgetting the dogs. If I am supposed to starve for the dogs, then I guess I should feel the same about anyone else connected with dogs. Actually, I want the best dogs so I can ask the highest prices.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> I truly hope you are being sarcastic. The amount of money that a doctor makes compared to us nurses is absolutely disgusting(they make well over double what we do), especially when you take into account that we are the ones doing the work for them, and we have to know the same amount of knowledge if not more than they do to keep them from f*cking up and killing a patient.


So, when someone has surgery the doctors leaves after the anesthetic kicks in and you nurses do the actual work ??


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> If I am supposed to starve for the dogs, then I guess I should feel the same about anyone else connected with dogs.


'Zackly. That's the craziness, IMO. If there are animals (breeding, health care) involved, then it's supposed to be a profession that operates on a whole different business model from just about every other profession? Why?! 



_"I wouldn't mind buying HW meds from my vet if the mark-up on them wasn't so exorbitant."
_
My vet will match web prices on flea stuff, Heartguard, etc. I can't say that others will/do, but why not check? Print out the ad (including the shipping cost) and bring it it. Might as well ask ....

I never get that stuff online ... the Heartguard guarantee requires that there be a vet involved, and the easiest way for me to have my vet involved is to have her do the blood test whenever I've lapsed (in the mosquito-free months) before I start up again and for the sale of the stuff to be accounted for at her office. Add to that the matching of the web cost, and I have zero reason to buy online. JMO.


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## Mara Jessup (Sep 7, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> My vet will match web prices on flea stuff, Heartguard, etc. I can't say that others will/do, but why not check? Print out the ad (including the shipping cost) and bring it it. Might as well ask ....
> 
> I never get that stuff online ... the Heartguard guarantee requires that there be a vet involved, and the easiest way for me to have my vet involved is to have her do the blood test whenever I've lapsed (in the mosquito-free months) before I start up again and for the sale of the stuff to be accounted for at her office. Add to that the matching of the web cost, and I have zero reason to buy online. JMO.


 Around here, heartgard costs $6.35/pill for the size my dogs take. It's about the same price online as my vet sells it for. I give it to them about 9-10 months out of the year, so the cost would be $180-$200. In order for Heartgard to honor their guarantee, you need to give it monthly, year round and test yearly (you might want to look into this if you don't give the meds monthly). Since I don't give it year round, I highly doubt they'd treat my dog if it showed up in the spring and tested HW+ for one reason or another. So the guarantee becomes a moot point. 

My vet does not offer a generic version (I asked) I can get a generic at a reputable online pharmacy (and you do need to be careful because there are lots of shady ones) for $3/pill. The cost savings is almost enough to cover yearly HW/lyme test for the 3 dogs. For me (the college student who is only working part time) that is significant. 

If I took it one step further and use a livestock drench it would cost me about $12/year to keep 3 dogs HW free. If I add up the cost savings over a 12 year span the cost savings is over $700/dog. That's a sizable chunk of money that I would much rather be putting in a savings fund for emergency vet costs or buying better quality food with then spending on meds that are overpriced because a company has a slick advertising campaign. 

So that's just my 2 cents plus some ;-)


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> OH, and before someone chimes in the cost of Med school and blablabla....we(nurses) have to keep UTD with our knowledge with lots of classes, traveling, etc(licensing requirement). Plus, we have to carry malpractice insurance just like they do, we get sued just as much.



Now that you mentioned it . I've had my fair share of conversations with nurses about the job and I agree they should be paid MUCH better . BUT I have never heard 1 try to compare the costs it took them to get their certifications to that of doctors . 

Now I really don't know and just ASSumed nurses didn't have to pay nearly as much as doctors for their schooling . I'm curious how close are they ?


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I just want to add that alot of my freinds are nurses and my brother was a Respitory Therapist . 

So I have alot of respect for nurses (except head nurses , long story) . 

Plus I just saw the opprotunity to finally be the to say something like that and couldn't resist . The cops here will understand .


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> So, when someone has surgery the doctors leaves after the anesthetic kicks in and you nurses do the actual work ??


 
LOL, not that, but I do know(personally) that the OR nurse has to keep on top of the Surgeon to make sure he keeps things sterile and that he doesn't make himself unsterile and give the patient a nice hospital acquired infection!! Ya'll wonder why there is so much infection in the hospital? Cause the f'n doctors dont wash their hands between patients!!!(again personal experience)


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Jim Nash said:


> Now that you mentioned it . I've had my fair share of conversations with nurses about the job and I agree they should be paid MUCH better . BUT I have never heard 1 try to compare the costs it took them to get their certifications to that of doctors .
> 
> Now I really don't know and just ASSumed nurses didn't have to pay nearly as much as doctors for their schooling . I'm curious how close are they ?


good question, its been a while since I've been in college, and I know the price has gone up quite a bit. Oh, forgot to add that the docotrs arent the ones getting bit,kicked,spit on,scratched, punched, etc....working as a nurse has gotten a lot more dangerous too. Anyways,LOL, enough of my bashing.](*,)


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> good question, its been a while since I've been in college, and I know the price has gone up quite a bit. Oh, forgot to add that the docotrs arent the ones getting bit,kicked,spit on,scratched, punched, etc....working as a nurse has gotten a lot more dangerous too. Anyways,LOL, enough of my bashing.](*,)


Nurses have been a godsend for me at the hospital but the last big fight I was in there it was a doctor that was in trying to help me restrain him while the nurse stood back and tried to tell us what to do . 

It goes both ways . Just wondering if you are going to be able to answer my original question though .


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Jim Nash said:


> Nurses have been a godsend for me at the hospital but the last big fight I was in there it was a doctor that was in trying to help me restrain him while the nurse stood back and tried to tell us what to do .
> 
> It goes both ways . Just wondering if you are going to be able to answer my original question though .


Uff, just looked at Pace for BSN, it is approx $30k a year($15k a semester).


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> Uff, just looked at Pace for BSN, it is approx $30k a year($15k a semester).


OK ?

My question was ; 

" Now I really don't know and just ASSumed nurses didn't have to pay nearly as much as doctors for their schooling . I'm curious how close are they ? " .


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Jim Nash said:


> OK ?
> 
> My question was ;
> 
> " Now I really don't know and just ASSumed nurses didn't have to pay nearly as much as doctors for their schooling . I'm curious how close are they ? " .


Sorry bad reading comprehension.....have no clue how much it is for a doctor to go through school,never asked.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Then I'm confused about why you would make this statement .




Maureen A Osborn said:


> OH, and before someone chimes in the cost of Med school and blablabla....we(nurses) have to keep UTD with our knowledge with lots of classes, traveling, etc(licensing requirement). Plus, we have to carry malpractice insurance just like they do, we get sued just as much.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Jim Nash said:


> Then I'm confused about why you would make this statement .


becuase they schooling is most definatley more, but I cant tell you how much more


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> becuase they schooling is most definatley more, but I cant tell you how much more



Oh ok . Well in that case I will say their schooling costs a hell of alot and blablabla..........


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nurses are worth their weight in gold. 
The pay problem arises because none will admit how much they weigh. \\/8-[


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Nurses are worth their weight in gold.
> The pay problem arises because none will admit how much they weigh. \\/8-[


OW, DANG!!! LOL, a lot of nurses do resemble that remark!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> OW, DANG!!! LOL, a lot of nurses do resemble that remark!


I use that one on my sister-in-law (35+yrs a nurse) all the time. 
Keeps my reflexes in good working order. 8-[8-[ :wink:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

NOPE I wasn't being sarcastic in the least. I think the remark about the type of cars people drive was really stupid, as if driving a nice car is a crime or somehow proves someone makes too much money. I have friends and family members who are doctors and veterinarians. One of them is an ortho vet surgeon and another is a vet oncologist and yep, they make a very decent living, as they should. I'm just sick and tired of people whining about how much vets make. Oh and by the way, calling people crooks because they make a decent living sounds like sour grapes. Driving a nice car does not mean a person is overpaid or rich by any standards.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> NOPE I wasn't being sarcastic in the least. I think the remark about the type of cars people drive was really stupid, as if driving a nice car is a crime or somehow proves someone makes too much money. I have friends and family members who are doctors and veterinarians. One of them is an ortho vet surgeon and another is a vet oncologist and yep, they make a very decent living, as they should. I'm just sick and tired of people whining about how much vets make. Oh and by the way, calling people crooks because they make a decent living sounds like sour grapes. Driving a nice car does not mean a person is overpaid or rich by any standards.


Sue, unless I am totally blind, or someone deleted their post, no one except you mentioned anything about what kind of cars they drive...this is the only place(that I can find) and first mention of a car was by you:



> "This is crazy. Why shouldn't MDs and vets drive a Lexus or Mercedes and make a decent living wage? Is there something in the oath that says they don't deserve to drive nice cars or make decent money?
> 
> How about a lawyer or an insurance professional? What cars are they allowed to drive and what is the limit on their income beyond which they are going to be labeled as crooks? While we are on the subject, let me know what an architect and a dentist is allowed too. IF you could point me in the direction of the official acceptable income/car list, that would really help me out.
> 
> Just askin."


 

PS, maybe your friend's that are vets and MD's arent crooks, but sorry to say, the majority of them are...I have been ripped off by more than one of them in the past. Besides, when people make a generalization, you don't have to get your panties in a wad over it....LOL, Bob made a comment about nurses and their weight(kinda implying that a lot of them are overweight) and I am a nurse and I most definately didn't get annoyed by it, LOL....... I'm 5'7" and 126 lbs at 40 years old, so it most definately wasn't a shot at me! ...Oh yeah, and I drive a Yukon Denali fully loaded:twisted:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I drive a 97 Chevy PU. 4x4. I have had a number of new rides in my life and the ex wives drove off in almost all of them. Not buying any more. Ex's are right in their with vets. LOL


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I drive a 97 Chevy PU. 4x4. I have had a number of new rides in my life and the ex wives drove off in almost all of them. Not buying any more. Ex's are right in their with vets. LOL


LOl!

Back in the day, in Idaho Falls where I grew up we all looked to our vets (who all treated large and small animals) to help our sick and injured livestock and pets and we respected them for it. We didn't think of them as being hand in hand with government and big business.

Even those who want to treat an animal indvidually and support an owner who wants to feed raw or not overmedicate the animal into the grave are afraid to do so because of the pressure from "the professional" community..


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> Sue, unless I am totally blind, or someone deleted their post, no one except you mentioned anything about what kind of cars they drive...





Ashley Campbell said:


> There is a reason that my dr in AZ drove a Lexus and had a Mercedes also - and it wasn't for just being a good samaritan.....



Page 1.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Page 1.


LOL, thanks Connie....ya I am blind.....been staring at too many pedigrees the past few days, making a database of dogos for our club...have typed in over 800 so far!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Yeah I guess I started that one - and it got taken out of context. Oh well. Point being that they already make good money (as shown by being able to own luxury cars and more than one) and I feel it's stupid to think that you, the patient, isn't paying for that. Which is fine, as long as they are honest. I have nothing against an HONEST person earning their living.
I have personally caught that same Dr. over-billing my insurance for things that I never got, and I reported his ass for it also. So glad to know he can afford a really nice 60,000k + car by screwing patients. 

That's the point, it's not that they aren't allowed to make a living. But being honest and EARNING their living is more important than saying they don't deserve to own something because they make good money. No, he didn't deserve to own a nice car if he's making his living by being shady.
That's like saying drug dealers deserve to own luxury vehicles, even though their profession is completely illegal; so is leeching off your customers. But I guess I'm alone in the boat with the mindset that everyone should earn their living and not get it through deceit, lies, or deception.

Same thought, my hometown vet charges $90 a spay. The vets here charge well over $150 (some quoted over $300). What are they getting that much extra money for? My vet back home owns her own practice and is the only vet in the practice - also owns the building. So why a $60-$210 difference in the price of the same procedure?


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm right there with ya Ashley, I have no problem with people making money as long is it is done honestly......I bust my butt for my salary, and put my own health and physical well being at risk in doing so, not just by being exposed to germs, but violent patients also that are strung out on drugs and alcohol.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Well Ashley, all my doctors and vets are honest AND earn a decent living. By the way my husband is a contractor. Are we crooks because one of our cars is a Mercedes? Or is it the med professionals who are crooks because they should not be able to afford the same cars as a contractor?

My sister in laws are both pharmacists who own a pharmacy. They drive Range Rovers and BMWs. Are they crooks because they are in the health care profession and make a decent living?

Just because people drive nice cars does not mean they are wealthy (we are not) and does not mean they are crooks. It just means they like nice cars and choose to spend some of their hard earned money on them.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Well Ashley, all my doctors and vets are honest AND earn a decent living. By the way my husband is a contractor. Are we crooks because one of our cars is a Mercedes? Or is it the med professionals who are crooks because they should not be able to afford the same cars as a contractor?
> 
> My sister in laws are both pharmacists who own a pharmacy. They drive Range Rovers and BMWs. Are they crooks because they are in the health care profession and make a decent living?
> 
> Just because people drive nice cars does not mean they are wealthy (we are not) and does not mean they are crooks. It just means they like nice cars and choose to spend some of their hard earned money on them.


Range Rovers are for egoistical yuppie show off maniacs. The nice thing is they are crap automobiles perfect for the people that purchase them.\\/


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Range Rovers are for egoistical yuppie show off maniacs. The nice thing is they are crap automobiles perfect for the people that purchase them.\\/


Actually they bought the first RR because they thought it was a good car to shuttle the kids around in and then when the oldest boy got his license they figured it was a safe and dependable car for him, which it has proven to be. But if it makes you feel better to assume everyone who buys a Range Rover must be an egotistical show off, have at it, wouldn't want to spoil your fun.:lol:


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> Well Ashley, all my doctors and vets are honest AND earn a decent living. By the way my husband is a contractor. Are we crooks because one of our cars is a Mercedes? Or is it the med professionals who are crooks because they should not be able to afford the same cars as a contractor?
> 
> My sister in laws are both pharmacists who own a pharmacy. They drive Range Rovers and BMWs. Are they crooks because they are in the health care profession and make a decent living?
> 
> Just because people drive nice cars does not mean they are wealthy (we are not) and does not mean they are crooks. It just means they like nice cars and choose to spend some of their hard earned money on them.


 Susan, breathe! 

The point that Ashley and the rest of us are making is a response to the OP: of course vets are allowed to make a living, the problem is that the trend in recent years has been for them to make a living off things like heartworm, flea medicine and (my own personal bugaboo) rabies vaccines. 

Once the animal is in the clinic there is a constant upsell (teeth cleaning, kennel cough, prescription food) and minimal attempt to keep costs down or encourage owners to pursue individual treatment plans. In the case of heartworm, flea meds and vaccines it seems quite clear that this overmedication is causing all sorts of dangerous conditions in the animals that vets are sworn to treat.

It's the same frustration that people feel for the medical/insurance industry. I go to my GP, pay her and she doesn't treat me, she refers me to a specialist. She can't remove a simple infected cyst from my face, she has to refer me to a plastic surgeon . When the infection worsens (because the surgeon is booking 2 montsh out, it's Friday so she sends me to the ER for intraveanous antibiotics. Bottom line, I spend a lot of extra time and money because she is working cooperatively with the larger medical/pharmaceutical/insurance communityso that to make more money for everyone instead of sucking it up and doing her job.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Actually they bought the first RR because they thought it was a good car to shuttle the kids around in and then when the oldest boy got his license they figured it was a safe and dependable car for him, which it has proven to be. But if it makes you feel better to assume everyone who buys a Range Rover must be an egotistical show off, have at it, wouldn't want to spoil your fun.:lol:


i am totally generalizing the kind of people I've run into that drive RR. I don't think too many of these people bought just because they are reliable soccer mom cars (which typically they are not).


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Susan, breathe!
> 
> The point that Ashley and the rest of us are making is a response to the OP: of course vets are allowed to make a living, the problem is that the trend in recent years has been for them to make a living off things like heartworm, flea medicine and (my own personal bugaboo) rabies vaccines.
> 
> ...


I was going to write something original, but this covered the same points I was making - without being a dick. 


I am more than happy to give my hard earned money to someone who is doing me a service, I'm more than happy to give more to someone who is honest and if I feel they earned it. But like Don, I feel a price quote is the end all be all and no extra charges should be included unless I"ve been informed and asked for it. I should not have to pay $60 just to get my dogs rabies vaccination updated ($40 for the office visit and $20 for a $5 shot) when it takes them 5 minutes out of their day. I use the walk in clinic in town, $13 for the rabies shot, and that's my full price. is it 100% markup? Yes, but it's not unreasonably marked up since a vet has to give the shot and sign off on it. 

If you take your car to a dealership to have the oil changed, and then you go to pay the $40 bill for the oil change and see a $1000 charge because they decided on their own that your car needs a full tune up and new brake pads and rotors...you're going to hit the ****ing roof right? You didn't ask for that service, why should you pay it? What if after the fact you agree it needed new brake pads and rotors, pay the $1000 bill, and drive it down the road, later to find out they never changed it (my ex had this happen with his truck) and now you have to pay for it again because it's been 6+ months and you can't find the receipt? 

You wouldn't allow this with someone working on your car, why would you allow it from a veterinarian or a doctor? You can say "well the vet/dr knows best" but doesn't the auto mechanic know more about the car than you too? Does that mean you should take every word he says as gospel and pull out your checkbook?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh baloney. Vets have always made money on vaccinations, flea medications, etc., it's the bread and butter of their practices and SO WHAT? I can take you to a half dozen vet clinics within a 5 mile radius of where I live where the vets automatically offer written estimates of treatment, from conservative to aggressive and leave it to the owner to decide what it is they want for their animals. It's the vet's job to offer the best course of treatment plan that he/she can. By the way - if you want to know what it's going to cost and the vet hasn't offered an estimate - ASK FOR ONE. They aren't mind readers and it's not their job to figure out what YOU think is worthwhile and necessary. So get a written estimate in advance, it's really not that difficult.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> Oh baloney. Vets have always made money on vaccinations, flea medications, etc., it's the bread and butter of their practices and SO WHAT.


Umm, it kinda goes back to the OP and the article 



> *Veterinary Coalition to Target Drop in Client Visits*_ DVM NEWSMAGAZINE _October 1, 2010 http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Breaking+News/Veterinary-coalition-to-target-drop-in-client-visi/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/688915?contextCategoryId=47831
> 
> A couple of quotes from the article: "*At presstime, a planning meeting is slated for November to bring leaders in practice and industry together in an attempt to carve out a series of strategies to help reverse a trend of dwindling client visits.* *" *


It's like the people who wrote the article are SURPRISED that the # of clients using vets are dwindling.....DUH!!!! ITS CAUSE THEY CHARGE WAY TOO MUCH MONEY FOR SOMETHING YOU CAN GET CHEAPER ELSEWHERE!!! I can go to our local ASPCA and get a spay/neuter for $40 and my vet charges $250......its a NO BRAINER! 

Just answering your "SO WHAT?" Maybe if the vets didnt mark up stuff 200-300% and only do like a 25-50% markup, then maybe people will go back to them.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Range Rovers are for egoistical yuppie show off maniacs. The nice thing is they are crap automobiles perfect for the people that purchase them.\\/


 
LOL!!! My hubby agrees with that one!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> It's like the people who wrote the article are SURPRISED that the # of clients using vets are dwindling.....DUH!!!! ITS CAUSE THEY CHARGE WAY TOO MUCH MONEY FOR SOMETHING YOU CAN GET CHEAPER ELSEWHERE!!! I can go to our local ASPCA and get a spay/neuter for $40 and my vet charges $250......its a NO BRAINER!
> 
> Just answering your "SO WHAT?" Maybe if the vets didnt mark up stuff 200-300% and only do like a 25-50% markup, then maybe people will go back to them.


Exactly, and with our economy being what it is, who can afford $250 when they have an alternative of $40? Certainly not me, and even if I could afford to pay more, why the hell would I? That's just plain dumb. I'd rather pay $40 at the ASPCA and then donate $60 (still saving $150) than to pay a vet $250 for the exact same thing.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Example of a neuter quote (came with my newest GSD)









Did not use these vets, did not pay $150 for the neuter either, but look at the "high" bill on there...almost $320 (I didn't count in the microchip price because I did it myself for $32 including registration) not including any pain meds.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Um no, I was responding to Margaret who claims this is a "recent trend". Vets have never made it a secret where their primary profits come from, and it's no change. What's stupid is you people getting all butt hurt because you think vets make too much profit. boo hoo.

You know what, this is one of those threads for bitching for bitching sake. So I'll bow out and leave you good folks to your whining and complaining. Wow, vet drives nice car - how awful. hahahahaha

You don't like the estimate - GOOD go elsewhere!!!! Just because YOU think it's too much doesn't automatically mean it is and doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's too much. When my dog had to be hospitalized for a major surgery I got estimates from a couple places and I ended up choosing the more expensive place because I knew there was a specialty vet in the hospital 24/7 as well as qualified nursing staff, the dogs weren't left after business hours. Also the vet had state of the art equipment which isn't cheap. So it was worth it to me and I could afford it. You don't get to decide what price is fair to everyone, only yourself.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Just out of curiosity, what profession are you in outside of the home Susan?


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> Um no, I was responding to Margaret who claims this is a "recent trend". Vets have never made it a secret where their primary profits come from, and it's no change. What's stupid is you people getting all* butt hurt* because you think vets make too much profit. boo hoo.


lol Susan I guess I'm showing my age but I remember a time when vets treated your animal for whatever you brought it in for or called them about. I also think that back then if people had evidence that medications and vaccines were a problem for an animal that they would try to work with the owner to find a solution instead of double-talking them into lockstep with their assembly line vetting.

I think I'm getting where you are coming from now!. You're a democracy = freedom to rape your fellow citizens in pursuit of profit freak right?


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Sue, you are grasping at straws with the car statement. I have no problems paying for services from a vet, especially if it is an emergency life or death situation...but this is also where a have had/first hand experience, where the vet plays up on your "heart strings" to get more money out of you....one example and my biggest pet peeve....
A bunch of years back I had a pit bull...presented with vomiting and anorexia in the am on Sat(no other s/sx prior)....took to my vet, did abd xrays, didn't look like an obstruction, sent home. DOg got much sicker that evening, panting and acting in pain, I took to emergency clinic. They did more xrays and stil lwerent' sure of an obstruction, so I left him there for them to monitor. I got a phone call around 11pm saying Bleu is getting really ill, they want to do an exploratory laparotomy, so I said ok.....BUT, if you find something that looks like cancer or dead bowel, DO NOT CONTINUE, close him up and call me, I will most likely PTS. Next morning around 9 am they called and told me surgery went well, but they found *10 INCHES OF DEAD BOWEL!!!!!! WTF!!! I TOLD THEM NOT TO CONTINUE IF THEY FOUND DEAD BOWEL!!!! *I'm an ER Nurse for &*%^# sake, I know what dead bowel means in humans!!! OK, fine....we'll hope he doesn';t get peritonititis or sepsis.....he did ok the first few days, but the day I was to bring him home, he got sick again....his anastomosis opened up and he was leaking bowel contents into his belly and needed another surgery....now, my bill is already about *$10,000!!!!* The surgeon called me up and said we need to do another surgery...I was like no, he is going to have peritonititis and sepsis now,etc,etc....and he kept trying to persuay me into the surgery by telling me that most dogs do really well with this surgery!!!!!!*YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SHITTING ME!!!!!!!!! I've been in the medical field for over 20 years I know what spilled bowel contents means! *I had to PTS.....so now you see why I am so touchy over vets!

Oh and PS, this dog was a RESCUE dog that almost died at 10 months old ITP/AIHA, but he pulled through(and that cost about 7K), but was now 7 years old.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Actually, I had to go pick my kid up from school - what I was going to finish that with was I like how that quote was done, given both options and getting to see, for the most part, what you are paying for. But Sue is already out for blood because of my car comment (guilty conscience??) so oh well. Who's the butt-hurt one? I never said vets drive nice cars, actually my hometown vet has a 1980's model dodge diesel - I have a newer car than that, but OMG, she's reasonably priced. Don't put words in my mouth Susan, that's not what was ever said, so either stick some reading glasses on or quote me correctly.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Look here is my last word on this subject I promise:

You can find shysters, crooks and assholes in every profession, from human medical, veterinary, legal, insurance, dog trainers, dog breeders, you name it, they're there. But to demonize the entire or the majority of veterinarians because you have had the unfortunate bad luck of running into a couple of them is just not fair and not right. 

Margaret: I know vets who will still work with their clients who have a hard time paying and that's wonderful thing, but it's not fair to judge the entire profession as uncaring just because all vets don't want to lower their prices for people who can't OR WON'T pay their fees. That's ridiculous it's a business, not a religion. And while we are on the subject, you can thank the current crop of deadbeats who don't EVER pay their bills for the reason many vets CAN'T AFFORD to give away treatment or operate at a loss.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Asley said,


> If you take your car to a dealership to have the oil changed, and then you go to pay the $40 bill for the oil change and see a $1000 charge because they decided on their own that your car needs a full tune up and new brake pads and rotors...you're going to hit the ****ing roof right? You didn't ask for that service, why should you pay it? What if after the fact you agree it needed new brake pads and rotors, pay the $1000 bill, and drive it down the road, later to find out they never changed it (my ex had this happen with his truck) and now you have to pay for it again because it's been 6+ months and you can't find the receipt?
> 
> You wouldn't allow this with someone working on your car, why would you allow it from a veterinarian or a doctor? You can say "well the vet/dr knows best" but doesn't the auto mechanic know more about the car than you too? Does that mean you should take every word he says as gospel and pull out your checkbook?


This made me laugh Ashley but isn't it the truth. My significant other , which lives 60 mi away by the way, used to get shafted every time she went to have her car worked on. Oil changes went just like Ashley said. She is retired, 5' tall and it is like they could see her coming. She always took her Lincoln Mark VIII to the dealership, Lincoln, Mercury, Ford. One of the airbags on the front went out and she took it in. They checked it out and gave her an estimate that was through the roof. It even included a new compressor and multiple other things. I told her I would take care of it and I went in because the compressor that was in the car pumped all the other airbags up just fine. Well, after they layed this BS on me and I had my say, I asked if they had a phone I could use to call her. Well, I didn't exactly call her, I called a tow truck. When that tow truck pulled into their sevice dept and the driver said he was here to pick up a Lincoln Mark VIII to take it to such and such mechanic the shit hit the fan. They told me they had it partially disassembled. I told them to throw some papers in the trunk and put that compressor sitting by the car in the trunk along with the other parts. I had to pay them about $140 bucks, had to pay for the tow truck, and even with the added expenses, that car was fixed for 1/4 of what their estimate was. The original compressor was checked out and put back on the car and was still in it several years later when it was sold. When you are getting shafted, by vets or anyone else, always make sure you create a good stir with an audience made up of their customers. Makes me laugh, they still had the fender protecter on that car and the tow truck driver had to hook it up and pull it out of the stall where they were working on it since they had it partially diassembled. I still have to laugh about the look on their faces. So, it isn't about vets, mechanic's or anyone in particular....it is about being screwed regardless of profession.


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Wow this has become quite a thread. The difference in the costs does not really have to do with how much money one vet wants vs. someone else in the area. Like everything else...you usually get what you pay for. Would you go to some backyard breeder in a trailer to get some unregistered mix puppy for 50 bucks and think you are going to do some high level competition....hell no. The same thing goes for veterinary medicine. Better medicine costs more money. You can go to the local humane society for surgery and your dog will likely live...but if something goes wrong...they would not likely know since there is unlikely to be a highly skilled person monitoring anesthesia, they don't have the same monitoring equipment...so who knows if your dog is well oxygenated or his heart rhythm is normal. Why bother doing pre-op labwork...if the dog is anemic or has some liver inflammation that may result in a poor reaction to anesthesia...oh well...we didnt know. How about a catheter and IV fluids? Its the difference between Mercedes and Kia type veterinary medicine. To each his own...some people want the best for their pets. I still have people that laugh when I tell them what I do for a living and can't understand why people would go to the trouble...but that is what makes the world go round.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Asley said,
> 
> 
> This made me laugh Ashley but isn't it the truth. My significant other , which lives 60 mi away by the way, used to get shafted every time she went to have her car worked on. Oil changes went just like Ashley said. She is retired, 5' tall and it is like they could see her coming. She always took her Lincoln Mark VIII to the dealership, Lincoln, Mercury, Ford. One of the airbags on the front went out and she took it in. They checked it out and gave her an estimate that was through the roof. It even included a new compressor and multiple other things. I told her I would take care of it and I went in because the compressor that was in the car pumped all the other airbags up just fine. Well, after they layed this BS on me and I had my say, I asked if they had a phone I could use to call her. Well, I didn't exactly call her, I called a tow truck. When that tow truck pulled into their sevice dept and the driver said he was here to pick up a Lincoln Mark VIII to take it to such and such mechanic the shit hit the fan. They told me they had it partially disassembled. I told them to throw some papers in the trunk and put that compressor sitting by the car in the trunk along with the other parts. I had to pay them about $140 bucks, had to pay for the tow truck, and even with the added expenses, that car was fixed for 1/4 of what their estimate was. The original compressor was checked out and put back on the car and was still in it several years later when it was sold. When you are getting shafted, by vets or anyone else, always make sure you create a good stir with an audience made up of their customers. Makes me laugh, they still had the fender protecter on that car and the tow truck driver had to hook it up and pull it out of the stall where they were working on it since they had it partially diassembled. I still have to laugh about the look on their faces. So, it isn't about vets, mechanic's or anyone in particular....it is about being screwed regardless of profession.



What I really like is "the computer told me". The "mechanic"
changes an module or part cause that's what the computer told
him to do and when it doesn't fix the problem they try to tell you you needed that part replaced anyway arggg
I have a 96 Villager where the check engine light goes on every
few thousand miles and then goes OFF all by itself. 
So I can change the air sensor every time the check engine light
comes on and it will last for 10 K miles OR I can ignore it and it will go off all by itself in 3K miles?


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I don't believe that to be true. I can sing praises about 2 vets that were reasonably priced and the best vets I've ever taken animals to, and then in the same breath tell you about 4 other vets that charged hideous prices and the result was a dead dog that suffered for months for no reason.

It's not like taking your dog to the ASPCA to be spayed/neutered is like going to a back alley abortionist - sheesh. Are you saying that because I'd rather save $50 on a neuter and took my dog to a cheaper (and very qualified vet) that I don't have my dogs best interests in mind, that I"m just a cheap skate because I didn't pay $320 for the same operation (as was shown in the price quote I scanned in)? Because that's ridiculous. 

I guess I don't want the best for my pets, I'll go take them out and put them out of their misery from living with an owner that doesn't care about them  maybe I should take Joby's stance and start feeding my dogs out of the dumpster to save money (I know Joby doesn't really do this but his diatribe still cracks me up) since I don't care about them at all.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> What I really like is "the computer told me". The "mechanic"
> changes an module or part cause that's what the computer told
> him to do and when it doesn't fix the problem they try to tell you you needed that part replaced anyway arggg
> I have a 96 Villager where the check engine light goes on every
> ...


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

The last time this happened to me, I was practicing driving in a friend's car, and he said pretty much what you said. Oh, the light just goes on an off, ignore it. Sure enough, with my luck, not three blocks later the brake pump goes out. No more power brakes, car takes 1/2 a block to stop, and there is no handbrake. Somehow made it home in one piece anyway, in traffic... Quite a morale booster, I tell ya...


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> What I really like is "the computer told me". The "mechanic"
> changes an module or part cause that's what the computer told
> him to do and when it doesn't fix the problem they try to tell you you needed that part replaced anyway arggg
> I have a 96 Villager where the check engine light goes on every
> ...


Sometimes the code for the O2 sensor means something else (from spark plugs, to wires, to compression problems), especially if you've already replaced it once and not 10 years ago  but the ones I replaced on my ex's truck seemed to be the issue (dealership quote, $1500) and the light never came back on, 50k miles later. Total cost after the $1500 quote from the Ford dealership? $120 in O2 sensors, $20 for a Chiltons manual, $10 for a special socket to remove them. Not a bad deal and 1/10th the price. Did cost me a few busted knuckles and a few short streams of obscenities though, those things are hard to get off.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> What I really like is "the computer told me". The "mechanic"
> changes an module or part cause that's what the computer told
> him to do and when it doesn't fix the problem they try to tell you you needed that part replaced anyway arggg
> I have a 96 Villager where the check engine light goes on every
> ...


Coming from a background in Automotive but now in Industrial, I will say this :-$

We all work with laptops or scan tools of some sort and if any given person has the training and experience, they will be able to interpret the info given to them by such tools. The people that take everything as gospel from a program are neither for the most part.

Any trouble shooting flow chart from any manufacturer of anything :lol: begins with what could be the smallest problem and will end with the largest, I had a trainer that used to say " many people will just flip the manual over and start with the worst case scenario"

It's the same with anything, there are people that know their shit and there are people that only know shit


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

OK, wait, I got another one for ya Sue...from even ANOTHER DIFFERENT VET.....took my African Grey to him, she started plucking when my husband went to school full time, but still wanted her checked out and see if there was anything I could do/give her/make sure it is her mentally, not physically....I have used him and his group before years ago for all my birds....so anyways, he examines her, takes blood, charges me $450 and *THEN *tells me he *doesn't treat birds anymore*, that I will need to go to another vet, but the blood tests will be back in a few days!!!! Talk about getting f*cked without even a reach around!!!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Gina Pasieka said:


> Wow this has become quite a thread. The difference in the costs does not really have to do with how much money one vet wants vs. someone else in the area. Like everything else...you usually get what you pay for. Would you go to some backyard breeder in a trailer to get some unregistered mix puppy for 50 bucks and think you are going to do some high level competition....hell no. The same thing goes for veterinary medicine. Better medicine costs more money. You can go to the local humane society for surgery and your dog will likely live...but if something goes wrong...they would not likely know since there is unlikely to be a highly skilled person monitoring anesthesia, they don't have the same monitoring equipment...so who knows if your dog is well oxygenated or his heart rhythm is normal. Why bother doing pre-op labwork...if the dog is anemic or has some liver inflammation that may result in a poor reaction to anesthesia...oh well...we didnt know. How about a catheter and IV fluids? Its the difference between Mercedes and Kia type veterinary medicine. To each his own...some people want the best for their pets. I still have people that laugh when I tell them what I do for a living and can't understand why people would go to the trouble...but that is what makes the world go round.


Gina, there are good vets no doubt. I really have never seen any correlation between the price and the quality of the work. Just seems the younger vets being turned out today think they are gods gift to animals and worth way more than they, realistically, are. Most became vets because they loved animals, not because they had any aptitude for being a vet. Things like diagnosing a problem are way out of many vets capability without it costing a fortune. When I used to go to vets, I would tell them specifically what to look for first because I knew the dog peronally. I would come back hours later to an exorbitant bill because they took exrays, and everything else looking for the source of,one example of many, the problem. Dog had an abcess draining in his throat. I could smell it. All I wanted was some antibiotics but they wouldn't do that without finding out if he needed them. I told them to check his throat because this dog always carries sticks around in his mouth. Told them they will probably find a punture wound in the back of his throat. The abcess was not on his jaw but down on the fleshy part of the throat. They ran $300 dollars worth of exrays, shaved his beard off which takes about 2 years to grow. Couldn't find anything so, they checked his throat and found a puncture wound. Handed me a bill for about $500 buck when all I wanted was some antibiotics for the abcess. I was livid...and loud. They wanted me to go back in the office to discuss it but I told them I liked it right hear in the waiting room which was full. They took all the bogus work off the bill, but, the point is people should not have to go through this. I have found it to be commonplace rather than the exception.....that is the sad part. I quit taking my dogs to the vet and couldn't help but realize after several years, they were living considerably longer without all the preventative medicine.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I don't believe that to be true. I can sing praises about 2 vets that were reasonably priced and the best vets I've ever taken animals to, and then in the same breath tell you about 4 other vets that charged hideous prices and the result was a dead dog that suffered for months for no reason.
> 
> It's not like taking your dog to the ASPCA to be spayed/neutered is like going to a back alley abortionist - sheesh. Are you saying that because I'd rather save $50 on a neuter and took my dog to a cheaper (and very qualified vet) that I don't have my dogs best interests in mind, that I"m just a cheap skate because I didn't pay $320 for the same operation (as was shown in the price quote I scanned in)? Because that's ridiculous.
> 
> I guess I don't want the best for my pets, I'll go take them out and put them out of their misery from living with an owner that doesn't care about them  maybe I should take Joby's stance and start feeding my dogs out of the dumpster to save money (I know Joby doesn't really do this but his diatribe still cracks me up) since I don't care about them at all.


If this is directed at me, no I was not saying that at all. My example was of a very complicated and high risk surgery, where I thought it was vital my dog be monitored 24/7 with qualified doctors, nursing staff, and state of the art equipment on hand, and that costs more. Someone mentioned a medication 500% mark up, but if you can't tell me what all the monthly cost overhead is for that particular clinic, (rent, salaries, insurance, continuing ed, school loans, equipment costs, utilities, etc.), the 500% markup means nothing. Plus who are any of us to tell someone what is or is not a fair profit?


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

It was directed toward Gina's comment - again, like the car comment, nothing to do with you. Actually, here's the direct quote so I get it right 


> Better medicine costs more money. You can go to the local humane society for surgery and your dog will likely live...but if something goes wrong...they would not likely know since there is unlikely to be a highly skilled person monitoring anesthesia, they don't have the same monitoring equipment...so who knows if your dog is well oxygenated or his heart rhythm is normal. Why bother doing pre-op labwork...if the dog is anemic or has some liver inflammation that may result in a poor reaction to anesthesia...oh well...we didnt know. How about a catheter and IV fluids? Its the difference between Mercedes and Kia type veterinary medicine. To each his own...*some people want the best for their pets.*


I just want to know if by that statement, that because I chose a less expensive route, that I could afford, does it mean I don't care about my pet? Even though the dog went to a qualified vet with qualified staff, just charges less for...whatever reason they do? I don't think paying more equates better care, I really don't.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

What I am finding interesing is that there would be such a broad acceptance of, "you get what you pay for as far as quality". Being a qualified vet is not exactly the same as being a gardner for pete sake. Even the worse vet should be pretty good. Obviously being a vet does not make them business people. What they charge should be based on overhead and what they need to make a go of it and live proper. If they can't do it and be in the ball park, they should find another line of work that pays better without the overhead.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> What I am finding interesing is that there would be such a broad acceptance of, "you get what you pay for as far as quality". Being a qualified vet is not exactly the same as being a gardner for pete sake. Even the worse vet should be pretty good. Obviously being a vet does not make them business people. What they charge should be based on overhead and what they need to make a go of it and live proper. If they can't do it and be in the ball park, they should find another line of work that pays better without the overhead.


This is true!

I have to say that I love the fact that at least two pages of this thread are devoted to cars and bitching about mechanics! Only on WDF!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> This is true!
> 
> I have to say that I love the fact that at least two pages of this thread are devoted to cars and bitching about mechanics! Only on WDF!


Again, all my fault  Glad I can oblige.
And on the car note, if you pay $15k for a new Mustang, and I pay $12k for the exact same car, quality, color - who is the dumbass?  Price doesn't always equate quality, some of us are better at getting their money's worth than others obviously.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Margaret, this is more of a "trip down memory lane" for me. That memory lane line was the title of a recently expired post also LOL. I hadn't thought of the tow truck incident for a long time. I will say one thing on vets behalf, they wouldn't pull this crap if people didn't put up with it. Because they get by with it so easily and no one questions them, they have began to think it is their due. People got to look at their bill and say something about all the fries getting added on.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Margaret, this is more of a "trip down memory lane" for me. That memory lane line was the title of a recently expired post also LOL. I hadn't thought of the tow truck incident for a long time. I will say one thing on vets behalf, they wouldn't pull this crap if people didn't put up with it. Because they get by with it so easily and no one questions them, they have began to think it is their due. People got to look at their bill and say something about all the fries getting added on.


It's also called people need to get more edumicated(but not to the point of hypochondriasis) and not take their MD or vet's word as the word of "GOD" and actually make an educated decision on their care and their pets.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Maureen A Osborn said:


> It's also called people need to get more edumicated(but not to the point of hypochondriasis) and not take their MD or vet's word as the word of "GOD" and actually make an educated decision on their care and their pets.


Actually I think people have been "trending" in this direction for many moons now, I think it came hand in hand with the information highway, as well as people learning there is nothing wrong with asking for a second opinion. Most physicians and veterinarians seem relieved their patients and clients have taken a more proactive role in their own health care and the health care of their animals. I think the only problem is people for whom a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, the kind that don't consider the source and quote unsubstantiated crap they read on the Internet as if it were gospel.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hi! My name is Bob. I drive a 5yr old Pontiac Vibe and like my vet. :-s
:-o OH wait! I think I'm at the wrong meeting. 8-[

Public service announcement
All jokes pertaining to nurses were made just fer the fun of it. I LUV ALL nurses! 

:-o:-o OW! OW! Honest Sweetkins. I didn't just type that. OW! Your 97 yr old, senile dad musta OW! snuck in here and played with the computer. OWWWWWW!
Aw, not in front of the folks Sweetkins.......PLEASE? ......:-o .....YYYEEEEOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!


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## Kris L. Christine (Mar 25, 2009)

My homeopathic vet has a small building for her practice so she doesn't have to maintain a huge infrastructure. She doesn't push any kind of product on her clients, and her fees are very reasonable.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Kris L. Christine said:


> My homeopathic vet has a small building for her practice so she doesn't have to maintain a huge infrastructure. She doesn't push any kind of product on her clients, and her fees are very reasonable.


Yes I was thinkiing about that Kris. If it isn't too much trouble, I would greatly appreciate the info that you gave me for the homeopathic vet here in New England. I have lost track of it. Just a name would be great!


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

I didn't mean to say that if you are not paying out the a** that you don't care about your dogs, just that there are some things that pet owners are willing to do that many primary care veterinarians are not going to be accomplish either because of lack of training or equipment. I am a cardiologist...so this requires more advanced diagnostic equipment and several years of extra training beyond the 4 years of veterinary school. I am sure that some of you would not pursue a consult with a veterinary cardiologist if you were told that one of your dogs had a murmur, however Mrs. Smith hears that her little toy poodle Fifi has a murmur...you bet she is going to pursue every avenue to make sure she has the gold standard of veterinary care. That is all I meant by each his own....there is a wide range of quality out there when it comes to veterinary medicine. I know lots of very good practioners out there that do not have the most state of the art equipment...however I also know about a fair share of them I would not allow to anesthetize my animal due to the lack of appropriate monitoring equipment and the safest anesthetics. There are still some old timers out there that do surgery without a gown and mask [-( WOW...all this over some heartworm prevention...PS the standard mark up for medications and supplies is 2.0-2.5%.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I think comparing HW preventative given by your basic vet to a specialist isn't even in the same realm. I expect to pay more for a specialist - their time is worth more. I do not expect to pay out the ass for routine vaccinations on a puppy or for HW pills. It's hard to think that a rabies shot costs $20 for the vet to administer - when you can buy the same vaccine they use with enough to treat 5 dogs for $13 (on jeffers pet) plus an office fee for hte 5 minutes it takes them. Now, Jeffers has a mark up on their products as well, so my guess is if you can treat approx 5 dogs for $13 with what they sell, the vet isn't making any 2% by charging $20. 
I mean, let's do the math. $13.65 for a 10mL bottle (already marked up via the company selling to regular customers) - instructions say dosage is 2 mL after 12 weeks of age (I prefer to wait longer but whatever) 
That's $1.37 per mL - so the dog gets 2 mL = $2.74
2.5% mark up on $2.74 cents = $0.068 - so let's say $0.07 cents.
Rabies vaccination cost then, including vets supposedly 2.5% mark up = $2.81

How does that equate $20 with only a 2.5% mark up? My math skills suck but even I can see that's more than 2.5%.

BUT...before you say I'm pulling figure out of my head there. I'm looking at an invoice from the vets office that came with one of the dogs - I would not have paid this for those shots, considering the DHLPP or 5-ways are like $6-7 at the vet supply store (which incidentally is the supplier to one of the local vets)
Distemper/parvo vax and exam - $32
Bordetella Vaccine - $26
1 year Rabies - $20
Total - $78

I consider ^ paying out the ass. $78 for puppy vaccinations in one visit (and at the bottom it said he needed to go back in a month for another distemper/parvo) - maybe it's just me but that's a lot of money, especially if you had a litter of 10 pups that needed vaccinating - that'd be $780 in 1 visit.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Talking about vet practice and mark up....I just got a bill through the door from my insurance company stating they are not paying my last bill for my dogs drugs, two months worth....£294 anti inflammatories for pain relief! The dog is not an elephant.

Is that expensive...or is that expensive?

Reckon I am going to make that practice work for their money!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

That's not just expensive (I had to use a converter) but nearly $470 US...right?

If the conversion is right, that's hideous.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> That's not just expensive (I had to use a converter) but nearly $470 US...right?
> 
> If the conversion is right, that's hideous.


I had rounded it to around $500, it's not very funny is it?

| had continued to use this practice for the reason they were on the run with my insurance company, and had decided I would return to my poor but fair unexpanded vet of old on moving home. It's interesting they never sent me a statement of account so long as the insurance company were picking up the tab!

And before any pro vet charging supporters chime in consider this....the practice has already supplied me the drugs....


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I think comparing HW preventative given by your basic vet to a specialist isn't even in the same realm. I expect to pay more for a specialist - their time is worth more. I do not expect to pay out the ass for routine vaccinations on a puppy or for HW pills. It's hard to think that a rabies shot costs $20 for the vet to administer - when you can buy the same vaccine they use with enough to treat 5 dogs for $13 (on jeffers pet) plus an office fee for hte 5 minutes it takes them. Now, Jeffers has a mark up on their products as well, so my guess is if you can treat approx 5 dogs for $13 with what they sell, the vet isn't making any 2% by charging $20.
> I mean, let's do the math. $13.65 for a 10mL bottle (already marked up via the company selling to regular customers) - instructions say dosage is 2 mL after 12 weeks of age (I prefer to wait longer but whatever)
> That's $1.37 per mL - so the dog gets 2 mL = $2.74
> 2.5% mark up on $2.74 cents = $0.068 - so let's say $0.07 cents.
> ...


Oh but Ashley your basing the above off of what you and I would pay and not what the Vet would pay per vial. When I worked at a fairly large practice (one side a clinic and the other animal shelter) they were only paying like .50-.75 per vial for a DHIPP. Which came in 25 vial packages. Hello now do the math on the 2 -2.5% mark up. The drug companies always came bearing gifts for the Chief of Staff to I might add. 
Think how much the mark up is going to be when the public gets wise and comes to the understanding that dogs like humans don't need yearly shots in order to be protected from diseases. 

I don't begrudge anybody their right to make a living, but please don't begrudge me, my right not to go along with letting you the screw me.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Lynda Myers said:


> Oh but Ashley your basing the above off of what you and I would pay and not what the Vet would pay per vial. When I worked at a fairly large practice (one side a clinic and the other animal shelter) they were only paying like .50-.75 per vial for a DHIPP. Which came in 25 vial packages. Hello now do the math on the 2 -2.5% mark up. The drug companies always came bearing gifts for the Chief of Staff to I might add.
> Think how much the mark up is going to be when the public gets wise and comes to the understanding that dogs like humans don't need yearly shots in order to be protected from diseases.
> 
> I don't begrudge anybody their right to make a living, but please don't begrudge me, my right not to go along with letting you the screw me.


Yeah well I was basing it off of solid figures I could find rather than conjecture - I have no doubt the vets office gets it at a fraction of the price I can even buy it online, but I don't work with those kinds of numbers because I don't work in a vets office, so even at a consumer price instead of wholesale, a vet is still making well over their suggested by Gina's 2.5%.

But don't worry, the vets are the victims here, poor them with their measly 100%+ mark up on services - we should all yank out our checkbooks and pay them homage.


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

ashley campbell said:


> yeah well i was basing it off of solid figures i could find rather than conjecture - i have no doubt the vets office gets it at a fraction of the price i can even buy it online, but i don't work with those kinds of numbers because i don't work in a vets office, so even at a consumer price instead of wholesale, a vet is still making well over their suggested by gina's 2.5%.
> 
> But don't worry, the vets are the victims here, poor them with their measly 100%+ mark up on services - we should all yank out our checkbooks and pay them homage.


hehehehehe


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## Kris L. Christine (Mar 25, 2009)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Yes I was thinkiing about that Kris. If it isn't too much trouble, I would greatly appreciate the info that you gave me for the homeopathic vet here in New England. I have lost track of it. Just a name would be great!


Margaret, there are several homeopathic/holistic vets right here in Maine. To find one near you in New England, you can go to these links and do a search: American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association http://www.holisticvetlist.com/, Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy http://www.theavh.org/referral/index.php


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## Kris L. Christine (Mar 25, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I think comparing HW preventative given by your basic vet to a specialist isn't even in the same realm. I expect to pay more for a specialist - their time is worth more.money


Ashley, I completely agree. When Butter came down with anapasmosis last winter, we were immediately referred to a Board-certified internist -- each of the multipe visits we made resulted in a bill of approximately $1,000 despite no surgeries, no x-rays, no anesthesia, no overnights, etc... It had a large impact on the purse, but our regular vet felt his case was beyond her skills to treat, and we expected to pay much more in fees. 

The specialist's facility was quite impressive and I'm sure costs quite a lot to maintain especially with their full 24 hour staff, although I don't necessarily need to sit in a fancy waiting room in a leather sofa by a field stone fireplace to receive quality veterinary care.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Kris L. Christine said:


> Margaret, there are several homeopathic/holistic vets right here in Maine. To find one near you in New England, you can go to these links and do a search: American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association http://www.holisticvetlist.com/, Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy http://www.theavh.org/referral/index.php


 
Thank You! I found the vet I was thinking of on the holistic vet list.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Sorry I took too long to edit my post so here's one more:

My primary complaint about the current state of vetting isn't cost, it's assembly line vetting. I have a small smooth coated border collie with outstanding bloodlines who has lots of training and sheep rental and travel expenses invested in her: considering the heterogeneity of border collies she is semi-irreplaceable. 

So, she gets a malignant tumor at the site of her rabies vaccine (huge nasty incision on her hip to remove it). When her 3 year rabies vaccine is due, can I convice either of the two different vets I take her to that she needs to be titered for rabies and to get an exemption on the vaccine? Hell no. Do they seem convinced that she is valuable? No. Does our mutual awareness that there are links between rabies vaccines and her tumor convice them to help me work my way through the procedure for getting an exemption? Hell no. I emphasized Nell's breeding and my financial investment in her because I was pretty sure that an argument based on my deep personal attachment to her wasn't going to be particularly persuasive.

Yeah and with me being in a crap mental state at the time, I caved. We vaccinated her in the tail with a vaccine delivered in a different "media.' Is that the word? No sign of problems yet.

The lack of individualized treatment ties into cost issues because vets charge more for routine treatments based on the presupposition that their medical expertise will contribute to a diagnostic application of medicines and treatments, and that the vet will advocate for the animal when conditions are such that mass culture fails to help the animal or in fact causes it direct harm. 

I would be more than happy to pay the bill for a vet who was actually offering individual treatment to my animal.


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

I don't do vaccines...however the vaccine has to be refridgerated until drawn up...it requires a syringe, a paid staff member to restrain the pet, and then the medical waste disposal. I was talking more about the price mark up for medications and supplies that you would take home.
PS...I don't actually believe that vaccines should be charged for...it should be the exam and veterinary consultation that you pay for...and the vaccines should be incidental. It is an old school thought that the bread and butter of veterinary medicine should be vaccines and flea/tick medication. I would rather do a good physical exam...finances work themselves out when you provide good veterinary care (ie. labwork in older pets, dentals when there is severe dental disease, etc.)


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Gina Pasieka said:


> I don't do vaccines...however the vaccine has to be refridgerated until drawn up...it requires a syringe, a paid staff member to restrain the pet, and then the medical waste disposal. I was talking more about the price mark up for medications and supplies that you would take home.
> PS...I don't actually believe that vaccines should be charged for...it should be the exam and veterinary consultation that you pay for...and the vaccines should be incidental. It is an old school thought that the bread and butter of veterinary medicine should be vaccines and flea/tick medication. I would rather do a good physical exam...finances work themselves out when you provide good veterinary care (ie. labwork in older pets, dentals when there is severe dental disease, etc.)


Old school thought that's still being taught. My university has a vet school attached and several friends have gone through the process. They're taught clinical finance based on the drugs are your bread and butter principle. If you're a large animal vet that is insanely true. Aside from the odd bout of colic or a lameness issue you're pretty much coming out to give shots. Small animal vets have a lot more leeway but they also require staff, a real building, exam equipment in the large scale etc. They're more likely to have clients to fork over the $200 in lab tests. 

I don't have a problem with the markups really. I know the actual cost to clinics or I can find out with a phone call. If I don't like the service I can either find another vet or not have the procedure done. If you're in an area where vets are scarce that could lead to a hard decision but it's the price you pay. 

And if anyone is wondering about the cost of med school it's between $90,000 - $200,00+ before cost of living is included. This is all after your undergrad degree. If I wanted to make money now with less upfront cost I would have gotten my BSN. I actually know of several med students who were nurses to earn up hefty chunks of change in the interim. It's a good plan really.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Cost of living is just a fact of life whether your going to vet school or working for a living.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Just out of curiosity, what profession are you in outside of the home Susan?


Just saw this Don and I'm also curious as to why you would ask?


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Cost of living is just a fact of life whether your going to vet school or working for a living.


A given, hence why I didn't include it in the tuition estimates.


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## Nick Jenkins (Oct 4, 2010)

The price of med and vet school is tremendous but not only that, the opportunity cost of staying school and not working, in addition to the interest on student loans put many grads in a HUGE hole post graduation. That being said, having worked as a vet tech and talking to many vets, they told me they charge what they can get. In affluent areas the same procedures are more for the simple fact they know the customers can afford it. In other places they would just get laughed at. It is easy to convince people to buy meds and expensive procedures when they have more money than sense and know nothing about their animals that they bought from the puppy store. But without making a profit on little things like that there wouldn't be as many vets around when you need emergency treatment. JMO


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