# Dog Reactivity / Neck Injury?



## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

So the pup is really growing on me but there are some things that are raising concerns. This is the first pup I have raised from scratch as all the previous dogs I have had were purchased no younger then around 6 months.

1. Pup is very reactive to strange dogs, barking, hackling the usual nonsense. She sees one she goes nuts. 

With an older dog I would go out find as many dogs as possible, expose, countercondition with treats and pressure..whatever works.

The pup is obviously too young for pressure nor does she really show much interest in food or redirection when she gets her sights set on another dog. She will meet a strange dog get over her nonsense then want to play. 
Meets the same dog 5 mins later the same reactivity then back into play mode.

I will admit when its in a bad spot..like a busy sidewalk I will give her a leash correction on the flat collar, or pinch her flank to stop her but that works for about .5 seconds then back to the barking.. 

So how have others dealt with this in a working pup? Wait till the dog is older then use pressure? She doesnt have to like the strange dogs just shudup...lol. If she was just a pet I probably wouldnt worry too much but dont want to screw her up..

2. The pup pulls into her collar non stop, yanking, self correcting on the leash etc. Im talking like the full 30 min to 45 mins walk with the leash at max pressure. I recently purchased a slightly thicker collar but still I am worried about what this will do to her neck long term. I need to get her out an expose her to alot but I am kinda worried about her injuring herself. This something I should worry about..?
And No I dont want to put a harness on her lol.

Again if she was just a pet..no big deal, but dont want to screw this one up..lol.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Just hold her and tell her "No"


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Faisal Khan said:


> Just hold her and tell her "No"


Faizal did that actually work for you..lol. She will most definitely not be phased. She doesnt understand no nor does a raised voice phase her.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Haz Othman said:


> Faizal did that actually work for you..lol. She will most definitely not be phased. She doesnt understand no nor does a raised voice phase her.


I am pretty sure the operational phase of Faisal's suggestion occurs when the puppy understands what NO means, could be wrong though.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

not sure if this would interfere with your plans at all, but I usually get the pups and dogs carrying something with them on walks. 

They already have something in their mouths and are much less likely to pull as much, looking for something else to get into, also usually are less interested in other things going on. 

The current pup pulled like a tractor at first when smaller, even when carrying stuff. had some issues with barking at other dogs too...I started with one of those long skinny fluffy dog toy things that look like different animals, and then used a dowel on a line for a while. If the pup got crazy pulling on the dowel while walking, I used the leash collar to negate it, and if the pup pulled on the leash, I used the dowel/line to negate that. did tangle up some once in a while. She would rather keep the dowel than bother to bark at other dogs, now she just carries whatever I give her.

my dogs will usually pull If I let them know it is ok to do so, sometimes it is useful to have a dog dragging you around, but not dragging you around when you dont want them to, or if they are acting up at other dogs or people.

bottom line is some more interaction from you should help immensely if it fits with your program.. carrying something, playing. some OB training, food..attention work, or teaching the dog just not to pull. whatever fits for you, maybe even a flexi, most pups will pull a lot less if the leash is 26 feet long, if just walking around, and they are allowed to get to where "they think" they want to be..with long flexi and something in the mouth, I havent had many "puppies" that pull much, they have more range to wander and check stuff out..

use a clicker..


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Haz Othman said:


> Faizal did that actually work for you..lol. She will most definitely not be phased. She doesnt understand no nor does a raised voice phase her.


Hell no, I had to use a prong on Gnash. But have seen other people do it this way  In theory when you hold the pup you limit their options and eventually they give up.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

would be nice to see a clip of the dog out in public, but my wild ass guess is at this point you have two problems : 1. haven't built up enuff focus on you and 2. you are overloading her stimulus when outside (aka : not controlling the environment around the dog and just "getting out" and expecting the pup to deal with whatever and whoever crosses her path)

as far as leash pulling : that is something you should already know how to train and should also be done incrementally

first, get the pup to give you immediate EC when you ask and reward the heck out of it and build it up in duration....if she's staring at you the rest of the world around her doesn't matter

get her outside in areas with limited distractions and if you can't keep her focussed on you there, she is not ready for more

or...just keep correcting the shit out of her and demand OB ,,, that works with a lot of dogs too ](*,)

btw, what's your hang up over not using a harness ??

good luck ... pup bonding should be fun not frustrating


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Faisal that would probably work if we stayed in the vicinity of the other dog but its usually passing on the sidewalk kinda thing so picking her up each time may not be feasable. 

Joby, thats an interesting idea, I have one of those toys you describe I will try it next time.

Rick, first off I am not frustrated perhaps a bit annoyed by the dog issues but again not really worked up..as for the pulling I expect a PUPPY to be awful on the leash my concern with her is she gives it 110% for the duration unlike most dogs who pull more at the begining and eas up after a bit. The concern is for her health nothing else. I expect a working pup of her calibre to be nuts I just dont wnt her to hurt herself.
Joby puts it best when he says "pulls like a tractor". I feel that a harness would make things alot worse.

As for correcting the crap out of her, I dont if anything I go too easy on her. I want her to be confident not inhibited. 

I always take her into places with lots going on, eg city, public parks, loud places, etc because I feel its crucial that she see and be exposed to that sort of stimulation early on. 
I have seen her confidence increase and her body language move from more caution to confidence. This is probably age as well as experience but I feel the experience is invaluable. 

Rick she will give me EC we have started with marker training. Her focus has very poor duration especially around other stimulation..I did not think this was abnormal as she is only about 14 weeks. So this would not be effective in reducing the current issue.

I have taught quite a few dogs heeling and leash pressure, never a pup, I use a prong and treats. She is to young for this and has the attention span of a gnat. 

Several other people at the local club have had some pretty high drive pups, they mainley get kenneled and remain crazy until they are old enough for actual training. 

I guess what my questions come down to is will the pulling injure her? She shows no discomfort and the collar sits at the base of her neck.

She does not transfer the multiple posative/nuetral experiences she has had with other dogs to every new one that she sees. Perhaps this is an issue that only maturity and continued exposure can solve?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

sorry, thought you were more concerned with reactivity //lol//

....so, re: "I guess what my questions come down to is will the pulling injure her?"
...not at all !!...NEVER met a horrible leash puller with a bad neck and i've met a LOT

i guarantee, if there is ever a neck injury, it won't be from the dog pulling, it will be from force applied from other end of the lead...does that answer your question ?
... sarcasm intended 

side bar...
over here we have lots of "guard dogs" called "ban-kens" in japanese. a dog who stays tethered outside nearly all its life and becomes very territorial. many owners use chains since they quickly learn to bite thru weaker leads. most are wearing neck collars; harnesses are rare. they are VERY adept at lunging to the full length of their tether....they all have great necks and never injure themselves doing this


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Haz Othman said:


> Faisal that would probably work if we stayed in the vicinity of the other dog but its usually passing on the sidewalk kinda thing so picking her up each time may not be feasable.
> 
> Joby, thats an interesting idea, I have one of those toys you describe I will try it next time.
> 
> ...


you might run accross the issue of the pup just wanting to shred the toy and otherwise make a bigger mess of it..that is why I for some pups I end up using something less likely for dog to try to stop and shread and/or attach a line to it...balls on a string I have used too..grab it once in a while, tug a little, some pups start trying to push it i into you.

seems weird I guess, sounds weird when I read it, but I truly think for me it makes an impact where stated.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

all sarcasm aside, whether you are walking with a 2 pound teacup poodle or a 150 pound mastiff, they all learn the same no matter how much drive they have or what genetic makeup they came with
- if they pull and get to move forward, they WIN and will more than likely do it more often...this probably happens at least 50 times on every walk you take with your pup in public 
- NO different from winning a sleeve, which working dog owners seem to understand well, so i'm kinda surprised the same analogy isn't as clear regarding lead pullers
- dogs pull because they can and are trained to do so by the handler

of course you can physically correct a dog into walking without pulling, or you can do it other ways using a huge variety of techniques including Ecollars. what has worked for me has been simple but requires much more patience and time than most owners care to put in and is not worth discussing on this forum, so i won't 



why you are worried about neck damage i still don't understand, but i could kill a teacup poodle in a microsecond if i used a collar/lead improperly, and if your pup gets its neck hurt of course you already know it will be your fault and not the pup's, so why the question ???

please don't tell me you aren't frustrated....EVERYONE hates a PITA leash puller, and i'm not referring to a psd going after scumbags or bite training on a field 

finally...
yes, you could incorporate some marker training here, so since you say your pup has learned the basics of markers, how do you intend to apply it for the pulling problems ?


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Hey Haz, you won't ruin her by teaching her to Leave It. Some self control will help you with her training, not hurt it. Don't wait till she's spun up and try to get her to stop. Maybe the other dog in your pics would be a good choice to teach her with. Don't expect some kind of structured walk with her at this age, I like to keep it more just exploring, working on come, leave it, and a little leash manners. Pretty short time, a few times a day.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Haz Othman said:


> So the pup is really growing on me but there are some things that are raising concerns. This is the first pup I have raised from scratch as all the previous dogs I have had were purchased no younger then around 6 months.
> 
> 1. Pup is very reactive to strange dogs, barking, hackling the usual nonsense. She sees one she goes nuts.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't worry to much about ruining her as I would about raising her. Her neck is firmly attached to the rest of her body, don't be stupid with the corrections, no swirling her up in the air over your head :lol: She should do just fine with corrections on the neck. Teach her the rules... just because she is going to be a working dog doesn't mean she doesn't have to follow rules like any other dog. Best get the rules instilled into her now while she is still young... You really don't want to have to deal with it later when she has grown out of hand and you have to work at it hard to get her to comply. I would say that teaching her at a young age is even more important in a working dog then it might be in a pet since workingdogs will at some point have to perform and bite... you do not want a set of teeth firmly lodges up your butt because you were to worried as a pup that you might have damaged her.


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## Guy Williams (Jun 26, 2012)

My current dog was very reactive to everything when he was young. Anything that moved would cause him to lunge, bark etc. when on a lead. Other times he would look more scared and dive out the way. As he got older it happened less. I found I had to be more careful not to expose him to anything new too quickly and more often than with other dogs. 

By about 6-8 months old he looked quite confident but we would get the odd week here and there where he would go back to his old ways even with things he had been fine with. 

Now he is fine (although it doesn't take much to get him going).

With youngsters I alternate between a flexi lead and just let them range and investigate or use a Gencon head collar and click and treat walking by my side. I then wean them off the head collar onto a normal collar when they are calmer and have been walking nicely for some time.

With the reacting to other dogs I would be careful about any kind of correction for fear that you make the situation worse. If the dog is reacting because it is unsure about strange dogs then the addition of pain/discomfort/displeasure from you may confirm the pups suspicion. I distract and divert their attention by whatever means work and ensure the pup is socialised as much as possible.

Whichever route you take I think you need to avoid creating a habit by just allowing the behaviour to continue without addressing it.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i think i understand what you are saying Guy, and it's all good imo, but some clarification re: the flexi :
do you also do walks with the flexi ?
...for me, i so use flexi's with young dogs and let them check out things and range, but never when i'm walking. the flexi is a break from walking with me planted in one spot which also allows me to start work on recalls, but i want the dog to learn that roaming is over when the walking begins...i used to do both but it created problems. now it's a completely separate drill....
- the more easily distracted the more flexi breaks, until i can get better focus and build a better foundation for the walking drills


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Haz Othman said:


> Faisal that would probably work if we stayed in the vicinity of the other dog but its usually passing on the sidewalk kinda thing so picking her up each time may not be feasable.
> 
> Joby, thats an interesting idea, I have one of those toys you describe I will try it next time.
> 
> ...


I have only started with puppies. I don't let them out around other dogs only their pack members and not even them in the beginning. Why does she need to be around them at this age? I work on the bond first and house rules, recalls and redirection. She needs to feel confident in you first before everything else. I teach "no" first if they need extra I hold the side of their face look into their eyes and say "no" when they look away I know they are hearing it! they learn very fast! Then I start with the "green light, red light" on our first walks if they pull I stop, leash goes loose we go! this works for little ones. I have an extreme drive mal who is very reactive and I took her everywhere big city streets, train stations lots of people and noises she even rode on a crane down town after we established these things first. Later the leash pulling can be dealt with in other ways. 14 weeks is still a baby in my mind. Good luck-


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Hey everyone thanks for the responses, I know this is the type of question most first time dog owners have but again first working pup..figure the rules are a bit different:

Rick, I never implied I would not be at fault if something happened to her neck!? She is a baby with developing bones and muscle I was somewhat concerned that the extent of her pulling would cause her injury down the road. Now its clear I was probably overly concerned.

A lot of people at the local club are of the opinion that the puppy should not hear NO for the first 6 months, which is fine when the dog is kenneled but not super easy when you take her everywhere.
I havent gone that far but clearly need to get more control on her if the outings are going to keep up.

Alice thanks that makes a lot of sense!

Guy thanks just not a fan of head collars but good to know! 

Lisa, dont want her to make friends with other dogs just want her to diminish the reactivity while passing on the street.. The barking is loud. I was willing to wait till she got older but now Im thinking Ill start working on a quit command.

I have been completely focussed on developing her confidence through lots of exposure and play not really much else. I see its time to work a bit more control into things now.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"Hey Haz, you won't ruin her by teaching her to Leave It. Some self control will help you with her training, not hurt it. *Don't wait till she's spun up and try to get her to stop. Maybe the other dog in your pics would be a good choice to teach her with. *Don't expect some kind of structured walk with her at this age, I like to keep it more just exploring, working on come, leave it, and a little leash manners. Pretty short time, a few times a day."_

This.



Desensitizing a dog-reactive dog (or pup) for me requires immediate action on my part, and not waiting until the dog can focus and stare. That is, I probably know the dog is going to react even before the dog does. I'm taller and I'm scanning the route. ;-) 

To expand on the suggestion about the other dog in your picture: doing anything that focuses the dog on you while there's another dog around is good. It starts a different habit .... focus on you, and perception of other dogs as just background. The other dog(s) can be your dog, then a neutral dog you may know, then strange dogs at a gradually-decreasing distance (the grass or dirt around the edge of a Petsmart parking lot, outside the fence -- not inside -- of a dog park, etc.).

JMO!


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## Elaine Matthys (May 18, 2008)

Haz Othman said:


> A lot of people at the local club are of the opinion that the puppy should not hear NO for the first 6 months, which is fine when the dog is kenneled but not super easy when you take her everywhere.
> I havent gone that far but clearly need to get more control on her if the outings are going to keep up.
> 
> I have been completely focussed on developing her confidence through lots of exposure and play not really much else. I see its time to work a bit more control into things now.


It's definitely easier to teach your dog good behaviors from the beginning if possible so you don't have to tell them no, but if something comes up that needs correcting, not telling them no is incredibly stupid. Deal with problems immediately as you seem them so they don't become bad habits that you have to fix. As for this problem, you can see the other dogs approaching and be able to deal with your dog long before she begins to react. If your dog is allowed to react, then you waited way too long.

Socializing and exposure are great, but don't let it get in the way of making her mind her manners.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Connie Sutherland said:


> _"Hey Haz, you won't ruin her by teaching her to Leave It. Some self control will help you with her training, not hurt it. *Don't wait till she's spun up and try to get her to stop. Maybe the other dog in your pics would be a good choice to teach her with. *Don't expect some kind of structured walk with her at this age, I like to keep it more just exploring, working on come, leave it, and a little leash manners. Pretty short time, a few times a day."_
> 
> This.
> 
> ...


The other dog in the picture is a fun play toy as far as she is concerned, I have scruffed her when she gets to exuberent in her play with the chihuahuas which works quite well..yes there are two, lol. She has no issues with our dogs its only the strange ones we see day to day. If anything she has a very strong desire to be with our dogs and play with them as much as possible

When she does meet a strange dog I let this happen a few times to see if she would get over it, she is actually ok she sniffs a bit, wags her tail, hackles come down then she wants to play. Meet the same dog again 5 mns later same reactivity.

She will take food to a point around other dogs but when the dog is within 15 feet or so no food or play will redirect her. I had planned on waiting until she is old enough for pressure to resolve this and planned to use some nepopo. But Im going to give it a shot starting now and see if we can make head way.


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## David Winners (Apr 4, 2012)

Haz Othman said:


> The other dog in the picture is a fun play toy as far as she is concerned, I have scruffed her when she gets to exuberent in her play with the chihuahuas which works quite well..yes there are two, lol. She has no issues with our dogs its only the strange ones we see day to day. If anything she has a very strong desire to be with our dogs and play with them as much as possible
> 
> When she does meet a strange dog I let this happen a few times to see if she would get over it, she is actually ok she sniffs a bit, wags her tail, hackles come down then she wants to play. Meet the same dog again 5 mns later same reactivity.
> 
> She will take food to a point around other dogs but when the dog is within 15 feet or so no food or play will redirect her. I had planned on waiting until she is old enough for pressure to resolve this and planned to use some nepopo. But Im going to give it a shot starting now and see if we can make head way.


What I think the others are saying, and they will correct me if I'm wrong, is that you should take advantage of the lower threshold your puppy will have with the other dogs it's already accustomed to. Train focus exercises using them as distraction. When you have proofed focus around these dogs, you can then move on to dogs that provide greater distraction, but at a distance that keeps the dog below threshold. 

David Winners


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Haz Othman said:


> Hey everyone thanks for the responses, I know this is the type of question most first time dog owners have but again first working pup..figure the rules are a bit different:
> 
> Rick, I never implied I would not be at fault if something happened to her neck!? She is a baby with developing bones and muscle I was somewhat concerned that the extent of her pulling would cause her injury down the road. Now its clear I was probably overly concerned.
> 
> ...


I was not thinking you where wanting her to make friends with other dogs! but that you could not redirect her! My point was spending time on the bond with her and redirecting her before you expect so much I guess just "read your pup first" I agree with the post from David Winters! but then again training puppies is not for everyone- I do hope she will be all you are looking for and good luck.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Haz...if i came on strong about the neck thing sorry 

my main point was in order to decrease reactivity to the world around her, INCREASE her reactivity to YOU with more focus and LOTS of positive displacement behaviors (OB), rather than do it thru corrections, NOs, leave its, and "teaching her manners" (which are easier and require less patience)

she's a curious pup with short attention span, but that doesn't mean you can't build it up. keep it fun with less corrections and she will need less as she fills in her boots. save them for the aggression issues when she starts biting you 

i do believe you can create and receive respect from a pup with very minimal corrections; just choose when to use them wisely

if she's barking too much you may not be giving her what she needs and not playing with her hard enuff ... it's always a balancing act

use more positions/recalls, etc when you are out
a pup on a lead exploring is just asking her to get distracted //lol//

good luck


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## Guy Williams (Jun 26, 2012)

rick smith said:


> i think i understand what you are saying Guy, and it's all good imo, but some clarification re: the flexi :
> do you also do walks with the flexi ?
> ...for me, i so use flexi's with young dogs and let them check out things and range, but never when i'm walking. the flexi is a break from walking with me planted in one spot which also allows me to start work on recalls, but i want the dog to learn that roaming is over when the walking begins...i used to do both but it created problems. now it's a completely separate drill....
> - the more easily distracted the more flexi breaks, until i can get better focus and build a better foundation for the walking drills


Yes, I walk with them on a flexi. More so when they are really young as it allows them freedom to investigate all the new sights and to move away if something bothers them. I click and treat whenever they are near my side and eventually as they habituate to the environment, walking by my side becomes the norm. 

I do the same on a normal collar and lead but will use a head collar if they aren't walking as well as I like. I use the Gencon as I have found it much better than haltis and the like.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

got it Guy
...just different strokes
...my system resolves around not believing a pup can concentrate on much more than one thing at a time and that when given the chance they will focus on exploring and foraging, and forget about the walking next to the handler part

- by breaking it into separate sessions it has seemed to work better for me
- and i'm very careful about where each takes place and how many distractions are nearby

always starts out with lots more flexi time anchored in one spot, with short walking sessions ... with the goal being to reverse that ratio


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Winners said:


> .... with the other dogs it's already accustomed to. Train focus exercises using them as distraction. When you have proofed focus around these dogs, you can then move on to dogs that provide greater distraction, but at a distance that keeps the dog below threshold.
> 
> David Winners




Yes. This is a major part of what I was saying.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Haz Othman said:


> ... She will take food to a point around other dogs but when the dog is within 15 feet or so no food or play will redirect her. ....


Then at 16 feet, practice focus on you with any activity that does it, and only gradually let the distance shorten. 


JMO!


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

David Winners said:


> What I think the others are saying, and they will correct me if I'm wrong, is that you should take advantage of the lower threshold your puppy will have with the other dogs it's already accustomed to. Train focus exercises using them as distraction. When you have proofed focus around these dogs, you can then move on to dogs that provide greater distraction, but at a distance that keeps the dog below threshold.
> 
> David Winners


Thats good advice, I have done this with older dogs. It never occurred to me to apply this to the pup. Will have to give it a try.

However we are still going to run into dogs on our regular walks so the fun will continue!

Rick, no worrys. I am building the focus but at her age and with were she is at individually its not to the point were it will be useful enough to avert the reactivity.
I know I have seen some pups that are super focussed on the handler and very easy to redirect and work with, and others not so much. So far she is easily distracted and has poor focus. Coupled with her energy level and stuborness it makes progress slow at the moment in terms of training. 

I have even cut her food for a day to develop more food drive, used various high value foods but the results were barely more then usual. 
I have the feeling that she will be a late bloomer which is ok with me just wanted some ideas on what can be done with her at this point in time, and I got some good input.

Again want to reiterate, quite happy with how she is turning out and just view these minor things as speed bumps. I like stubborn, I like handler hardness, I like prey drive and she has all of that in spades so far. The more work, the greater reward..I hope .


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

sorry ... forgot to ask you Haz,,,,,

how is the pup when you walk it at night compared to the daytime walks and what percent of each time do you take it out ?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Not sure why we have to do walks yet but thinking about how I raise mine, why not train her the art of walking on leash without pulling at home in familiar surroundings, then add unfamiliar places and distractions. The dog reactivity is a separate issue. I don't use strange dogs to deal with this--only known dogs I know aren't putting out any vibes. But before I deal with the dog issue, I first want the puppy attuned to me. Probably the only thing I ever adopted from Koehler was the random walkabouts--dog goes one way, I go another. Pretty soon he is gauging my left leg and in my attempts to lose the dog, I can't. These days, the second he is in correct position, I mark/reward.

T


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> .....was the random walkabouts--dog goes one way, I go another. Pretty soon he is gauging my left leg and in my attempts to lose the dog, I can't. These days, the second he is in correct position, I mark/reward.
> 
> T


this method will work for any dog or pup I beleive, I use this method as well. even for youngish pups, can do with prong lightly or even flat...there is that ineviatable WTF? moment in the dog...then understanding kicks in.. no need to say anything.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

since we're moving on to walking techniques...
i like to step on a paw to get a WTF moment and i also use a lot of the koehler methods 

so, besides how to walk a dog 

- do others also concur that some dogs that are reactive as the pup described in the OP and are just "late bloomers" ... and it will fade away as they mature ??
- i don't concur and say it's wishful thinking


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

rick smith said:


> since we're moving on to walking techniques...
> i like to step on a paw to get a WTF moment and i also use a lot of the koehler methods
> 
> so, besides how to walk a dog
> ...


I don't know that "reactive" is correct. Maybe its just a matter of Haz being very careful to not do anything wrong that's leading to her being frustrated. Once he figures out how much obedience to balance with her just being a dog, it won't be anything.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

rick smith said:


> since we're moving on to walking techniques...
> i like to step on a paw to get a WTF moment and i also use a lot of the koehler methods
> 
> so, besides how to walk a dog
> ...


I actually work with a 10 month old Cardigan puppy that shows these behaviors and its fear based mostly. It could be a stage and go away but I've told her owners this is something that needs addressing. I wouldn't do stress and corrections, per se, and I wouldn't do any more dog-to-dog introductions until I had her focused on me. I work with them to ignore strange dogs. Its also something I would ask the breeder about--have they seen it and how was it resolved. 


T


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Rick im saying she may be a late bloomer in terms of focus and trainability..not that I expect the behavior to just go away. However, when she is older is morr mature and confident I think it will be easier to get the message across. She was walking the around the campsite we were recently at in the pitch dark and encountering people. She seemed fine maybe a tad more hesitent when encountering some groups but not fearful by any stretch. 

Terasita I have used that method with a prong on around 7 to 9 dogs all with success its very effective. I just dont feel she is old enough for that yet.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Haz Othman said:


> Rick im saying she may be a late bloomer in terms of focus and trainability..not that I expect the behavior to just go away. However, when she is older is morr mature and confident I think it will be easier to get the message across. She was walking the around the campsite we were recently at in the pitch dark and encountering people. She seemed fine maybe a tad more hesitent when encountering some groups but not fearful by any stretch.
> 
> Terasita I have used that method with a prong on around 7 to 9 dogs all with success its very effective. I just dont feel she is old enough for that yet.


I don't use prongs. Try it without and work with the marker concept. Start putting in her little head to choose you over the environment. Why let pup go through the formative stage without training or addressing certain issues because she is not ready for the stress of corrections. The more reactive ones are such because they can't filter out the environment so its harder to get things so get it in the sterile comfy environment first. But sounds like you are happy with how things are going so enjoy her and looking forward to updates.

T


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> since we're moving on to walking techniques...
> i like to step on a paw to get a WTF moment and i also use a lot of the koehler methods
> 
> so, besides how to walk a dog
> ...


Rick sometimes it does just go away without much specific work on it and other times needs more work. depends.

I would say if abasolutely NOTHING is done whatesoever, that there is a good chance it wont go away.

In my experiences it does fade away as the dog matures, partly because the dog is maturing and partly because you are training the dog over time.


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