# lhaso apso or chow chow



## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

my aunty's fox terrier passed away recently, and she is looking for a new family pet and watch dog. so far she has narrowed it down to the lhaso apso and chow chow.

any experiences on either breed? in terms of energy level, ease of training and watch dog abilities?


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

KNPV Mali, Berry II bloodline. Joined the club yet?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Michael

Are you serious?


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

unless she's into lots of hair skip the chow. Lhasos are nice little dogs similar to her fox terrier. 

But, frankly, you can get better info off the internet by googling breed characteristics.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

But let me help you out...... 

Chows can weigh from 40-70lbs (hardly a small dog). They are difficult to train because they are a stubborn and independent breed with a tendency to snap aggressively. All of this requires a firm and experienced owner. Plus they have time consuming grooming needs.

While the Lhasos are a sensible 13-15lbs and have a willingness to hang out on the couch making them better pets for people in small houses. They have all the same similar characteristics as a terrier so she already knows how to deal with that. Plus if she doesn't want to brush the dog, she can easily give it a buzz cut.

I find it pretty strange that your aunty picked such 2 dissimilar breeds to chose between.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Michael Murphy said:


> my aunty's fox terrier passed away recently, and she is looking for a new family pet and watch dog. so far she has narrowed it down to the lhaso apso and chow chow.
> 
> any experiences on either breed? in terms of energy level, ease of training and watch dog abilities?


 
what bloodlines are you looking at they are all different


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Sarah Platts said:


> But let me help you out......
> 
> Chows can weigh from 40-70lbs (hardly a small dog). They are difficult to train because they are a stubborn and independent breed with a tendency to snap aggressively. All of this requires a firm and experienced owner. Plus they have time consuming grooming needs.
> 
> ...



her daughter picked the two breeds out cause there "cute".
she also likes little dogs that bark now that she is divorced, makes her feel safe. :roll:


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

can't believe i'm actually responding to this thread; must be some leftover Xmas spirit ;-)

yeah, i've had hands on experience with about 50 LA's 
never seen one that would make a good watch dog of any kind; but some barked every now and then
- they were the flavor a few years back, but i still see a lot of seniors with oldies so they do have some longevity
- never seen a trained one. most people i met just anted to teach em how to sit pretty and beg for treats
*can't imagine how anyone would consider it a potential watch dog (whatever that means)

only had hands on experience with one Chow....it was obnoxious; but so was the yakuza owner
- never groomed due to handling sensitivities

bottom line :
- totally diff breeds on different ends of the spectrum

- of course michael already knew that .. 
- and he knows how to research bloodlines
............. but he's still asking :-(

btw, didn't he have a gsd and get a DS or mal way back ?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

What about another Fox Terrier??

What about a medium Schnauzer, the original Schnauzer!!

As for comparing the lhasa Apso (?) to a Jack Russell - who on earth would find comparisons.

I would forget the Chow Chow but must admit I have only had contact with one - pleasantly.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Michael Murphy said:


> her daughter picked the two breeds out cause there "cute".
> she also likes little dogs that bark now that she is divorced, makes her feel safe. :roll:


So this is going to be the daughter's dog? Otherwise if it's auntie's dog then auntie needs to be making the choices. 

Frankly, you can train a Lhaso to be a nice little guard dog but most would rather they be quiet and so they are. Bet you could train it to be a nice little protection dog.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Consider a Schipperke: smart, good watch dogs, not too much hair, size that can be picked up and carried when needed. Look at health records of bloodlines. Some have health issues. If healthy, they live a long time and are great and intelligent companions. Caveat: they need more exercise than most lap dogs (they aren't couch potatoes), and opportunities to learn/work (because they are smart).

If your aunt has a sedentary lifestyle, don't get a Schip. It would be bad for both of them.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

all I can say is every chow I have ever encountered in close quarters for any length of time, has either actually bitten me, or tried to bite me... and probably at least a third have bitten their owners or family members as well..


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

If the main criteria for choosing the breed of dog is "cute", why not just go to a shelter or rescue and pick a nice dog that needs a home?


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

leslie cassian said:


> If the main criteria for choosing the breed of dog is "cute", why not just go to a shelter or rescue and pick a nice dog that needs a home?


+1


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I would never suggest a Chow to anyone that hasn't had a lot of experience with dogs and dog aggression.

They are also known to be lacking in threat display. No show just bite. 

Lhaso = JRT ? :-o Not in my life time!

The Lhaso is probably the easiest of the Asian breeds to get along with.

The JRT................ Lovable/evil little bassids.........:twisted: if you can keep up with one.


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> I would never suggest a Chow to anyone that hasn't had a lot of experience with dogs and dog aggression.
> 
> They are also known to be lacking in threat display. No show just bite.
> 
> ...


chow chows really, they look like dum fluffy show dogs.


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

my aunty had a fox terrier not a jack russel terrier.

should a JRT be considered?

and sarah is saying lhaso makes good watch dog and other say there not good watch dogs, so they must vary in temperament heaps?

so what other small watch dog breeds should be considered. there a pretty active family so walking the dog is not an issue


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

What about a Standard / medium Schnauzer?

or

Minature Schnauzer?

A friend of mine breeds the minature Schnauzer and they seem game little dogs. 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOTNhSelYT8


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

There are lots of "what breed of dog should I get" tests on the internet that try to match suitable breeds to lifestyle. Maybe one of those would be a good place to start for your aunt. 

http://www.animalplanet.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds/questionnaire/page1.html?q=1

Then go to a shelter and adopt a nice mutt.


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

I'd pass on the chow right now! I use to be a groomer and both breeds require a hell of a lot of grooming, and both are well knows serious biters for grooming. But at least a lasha will warn you before taking your face off. The chow don't give much warning and have a powerful bite. Neither is a good choice for someone with children. Chows are sketchie at best,, one person dog, not family friendlily. Heavy duty shedders and they have a lot of weird health problems. Bad knees, entropia, heart, cancers and nasty temperaments. Lsshas i find have a lot bite thresh hold too and can diliver a nasty bite. Thos long coats require a lot of grooming unless they want it shaved down into a manageable length. Lshas have a lot of eye problems, diabetes and teeth problems. I groomed a lot of both breeds and only had a few they were great for handling, most had to be handled with care and some were sedation grooms. Your aunt would be better off with a lower maintenance breed. If she liked a fox terrier what about a rat terrier? Sparky, shorter coated and good watch dog.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Michael Murphy said:


> my aunty had a fox terrier not a jack russel terrier.
> 
> should a JRT be considered?
> 
> ...


For me the criteria for a watch dog is one that barks at or alerts you to strangers or a knock on the door. I get this in my dogs by encouraging the dogs to bark when strangers come to the door or something happens outside the home. I want them to bark until I get to the scene, check it out, then I tell them that it's o.k. and that means they now need to be quiet. I don't tell the dogs to shut up without first checking out the situation. You can teach this to pretty much any dog so I'm not sure its a pedigree or temperament issue. I really don't think your Aunt is up to dealing with a dog that does anything more. 

I would not get a JRT for myself for any reason. That type of dog is more than I want to deal with. The same with a chow. I've known a couple and I tended to watch myself around them. Never had a bite but then I kept my hands to myself. 

I know the poodle is considered a "cute" dug but they also can be good little watch dogs and they come in a variety of colors and sizes. Yes, they have grooming needs but you can easily give them a buzz cut at home and save a trip to the groomers. The suggestion of a schnauzer is also a good one. The idea of taking a rescue from the shelter is also an excellent idea. Other dogs on the nice size of things are English Springer, and Brittany. I've got a lot of experience with English Springers and they make nice family dogs and good watch dogs. They sure alert when visitors come down the drive way or they hear strange noises at night.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

chows are evil things and i second Joby, all the Chows i've ever encountered had bitten everyone in their periphery, often including the owner.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I would not mind one for myself (a chow) ....if I liked them at all LOL

I think most chows are too dominant and stubborn for most people with average pet skills, couple that with territoriality and or social aggression, and there are usually big problems...for the owners and their guests...

one time I had to throw on a bite suit and drag my next door neighbors chow out of his truck, it refused to come out, and was trying to bite him LOL


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

i always thought chows are like every other show dog, who knew

what about lhaso apses are they similar in temperament or not as bad


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Similar but not near as bad.

Most all the Chows, Pekes, Lhasos, Shar-Pei and other Asian breeds can be very aloof, one family, often one man dogs and willing to bite with little reason.

I was involved heavily in AKC obedience in the late 70s into the 90s and saw very few of any of these breeds in the obedience ring.


The ONLY Chow I ever saw in obedience was actually pretty social and his handler was quite aware of that fact......because everyone was always telling her how surprised they were. :lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I have a chow mix living next door. I cary a cane when I work in the yard in case I get attacked. That's happened twice but I'm a big guy and was able to charge the dog and back him down. What concerns me is if I fall with this bum knee. Then I'm defenseless. 

I know the neighbors well and told them I will beat the dog senseless if he bites me or mine. They are totally ignorant dog owners. I loaned them all my training books and tapes and some of it sunk in. The dog is a PTS fear bitter that never should have been adopted out of the humane society. 

Frankly it's just a matter of time before I get my wish.


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

what about the JRT?
are they good watch dogs, i also herd they might be very destructive diggers?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Michael Murphy said:


> what about the JRT?
> are they good watch dogs, i also herd they might be very destructive diggers?


In my opinion, a very well bred JRT is not automatically a good family dog. The male we had in England was from the well known Cheshire Hunt Kennels and would have attacked a Great Dane, horse, cow, whatever given the chance. He was however very friendly with humans. The bitch was not so friendly with humans but was easier to train. In my mind these dogs belong to the hunt.

A drunk came up to my Dad once, the bitch jumped up to his throat whilst the stocky male went for his trouser leg.

There are a number of them in Switzerland because Christine Stückelberger, the famous dressage equestrian made them popular to ride with her horses. They probably would shake hands with a fox if they met one but they are no longer typical JRT's although not always willing to live the life of a purely domestic dog, whatever the exercise.

There are so many small dogs (any good Terrier needs a lot of training) so that "Aunty" could find a good pet;

Lagotto Romagnolo (doesn't throw hair) is quiet in the house but active outside

Schnauzers (as I said)

Poodles as someone mentioned


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Michael Murphy said:


> so what other small watch dog breeds should be considered. there a pretty active family so walking the dog is not an issue


 Schipperke

Boston Terrier 

Border Terrier


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Michael Murphy said:


> what about the JRT?
> are they good watch dogs, i also herd they might be very destructive diggers?



Over the years I've had Kerry Blue terriers, Rat terrier, Border Terriers, Norwich terrier, Bull Terrier, Pit, JRT and numerous terrier mixes.

I love the little basids! 

I've never had fond them to be terribly hard to train and one of my Kerrys was nationally ranked in AKC OB.

His first ever competition for his CD was at a GSD Specialty week end. The vast majority of the competitors were show line with just a few working line.

We took first place in Novice . :razz: :wink: 

My last time in the AKC OB ring was with my present older GSD. He took first place for his last leg for his CDX. 

Is the GSD easier to train? I can only say that my methods are a MUCH easier on the dog then in the past but the GSDs start out more willing to learn.

With the terriers I believe you can accomplish anything IF you can convince them they are having a fun time. At the same time I've never fouond any of mine to be stubborn, to independent, flipping me the bird and all the other human traits often used when explaining their training. 

As to making a good watchdog most ALL the terriers make great alert dogs. 

The 'Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training" mentions the Dale, Kerry Am Staff and Bull terrier as good candidates for protection work with the right selection and the little bassids as "Having plenty of courage and the teeth to back it up" 

My choice has always been a small, yappy little dog and a larger dog to respond when the little bassids alert.

I've had many of my terriers at the same time as larger outside dogs and the terriers would alert on someone a half a block before the larger dogs but it did certainly did kick start the larger dogs into action. 

Last terrier (JRT) was 4-5 yrs ago and I had both my present GSD. 

I will say that he was the only one of all my terriers that I wouldn't trust alone with any dog. Even my own GSDs but he was seriously nucking futs and not just the "normal" JRT.


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

so lhaso apses good watch dogs compared to the small terriers or not? another thing they like about them is the low shedding.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

most small dogs are good watch dogs. They tend to be hypervigilant anyway. All the dog needs to convey is that something is out of place and most tend to do that naturally. I think this is being over-thought out and you have probably projected your ideals into the process. Let Aunty go to the shelter or wherever and let her get the dog that she likes.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> If the main criteria for choosing the breed of dog is "cute", why not just go to a shelter or rescue and pick a nice dog that needs a home?


+2.

While I appreciate you are asking before getting said dog, this is not really a working dog question. As for the dogs in-question, for general questions you could start with an incredibly basic website like Dog Breed Info or a registry site like AKC or UKC or a simple Google search.
http://dogbreedinfo.com/
http://www.akc.org/
http://www.ukcdogs.com/

But really, if the criteria is a cute dog that can bark at strangers and be a companion to make your aunt feel protected, a rescue would be an appropriate way to find a dog SHE likes and chooses based on the individual dog and its personality (and, sorry, but not your daughter because she thinks the breed is cute). I am all for going from a reputable breeder, however in this case it seems apparent there is no real attachment to any particular breed as you are comparing breeds that share very little in common.

Also, getting your aunt a Chow or a JRT seems like a really bad idea, but maybe that's just me.

-Cheers


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Rant on :
ridiculous thread that should have been posted in a pet forum NOT here

posted by a poster who has NEVER taken any advice given to him. 
his sole participation on the WDF is to ask questions ... and then ask more questions......while he ignores the questions posters ask him :-(
- not to mention the fact he has never given any feedback on the working dog he searched far and wide to get.....that is just downright rude in my book

if "aunty" needs help, AUNTY should get off her duff and post an email and start a TWO way conversation.

we have NO idea where her mind is REALLY at, nor do we have any assurance that the good advice that HAS been given is being accurately
relayed to her

i should have known better than to respond to one of his threads; especially when chows and companion lap dogs were being mentioned equally as potential "watch dogs" ](*,)](*,)

re: "watch dogs" ..... the criteria seems to be any dog that still has its vocal chords intact is a potential watch dog, especially the little insecure ones :-(
- one last note on the breed first mentioned .... i have known LOTS of this breed (over 20) and they are some of the most QUIET compared to all the other little anchor biters. a LA that barks a lot is a SHIT LA from bad breeding. period. good ones are nice, quiet little dogs
- but of course any owner can take any pup and turn it into an obsessive barker.....doesn't take much effort to do that, so i sure hope that wasn't being suggested ](*,)

regret that i took the time to post specific answers to specific questions, and for sure i'm wasting my time now .... but it will be last time i will make that mistake \\/

SURE hope this thread doesn't get REposted as a "pet thread of the month" by our forum owners 

call me an asshole ... but imo this thread is just another reason of how far this forum has slipped from being a working dog forum
- especially when posted in the "General Working Discussion" category ](*,)

this forum should exist to HELP people who want help and are willing to accept it - even if it might appear to be negative
- if they ask dumb questions because they are too lazy to look them up, so be it...we shouldn't be spoon feeders
- cause that's how it is in the real world. there are times to be polite and there are times when a dose of reality helps more

rant off ... now i feel better 
too cold and too much time to spend on the keyboard :razz::razz:

lastly ..... Michael
get off your ass and participate and improve the quality of this forum !
if you feel like you already have, PM me the threads 'cause i must have missed them


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