# Historic DDR Video



## Catalina Valencia (Feb 20, 2008)

Interesting, I just wish I could understand what they are saying.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=42mR2vLSekQ&feature=related


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Yanno, when I see these old videos I really wonder how good the dogs were in those days. People always seem to think "the dogs used to be way better," but how much of that is really true?

Or maybe it's just the decoying that sucks??

I don't think the dogs we have today are all that bad.


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

I think you are on to something in that thinking Mike...watching this video and that other schH video from the 30's kindof makes me wonder the same thing...


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2008)

It made me think of an analogous situation.

It's the way people lament the loss of morals and rise in violence "these days".

Historically, really, these are the safest times we've ever lived in. It's just that (amonst other things) our expectations and basic standards continue stay a couple steps ahead of reality.

Maybe back then, when this service dog stuff was kind of novel, they didn't have much basis of comparison. And/or that any dog would even attempt this stuff with their particular training method might have been a real feat.

I wonder how long the real hardcore DDR infatuees will try to maintain the royal bloodline anyway.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Yanno, when I see these old videos I really wonder how good the dogs were in those days. People always seem to think "the dogs used to be way better," but how much of that is really true


You mean the dog that almost didn't go back over the wall with the dumbbell, and the dog that kept coming off the 'sleeve' and spinning around away from the helper when it was on the sleeve? That's certainly not the picture I've been presented with of the 'dogs of old.' Those dogs didn't look DDR to me, either

I wish I could understand what the narrator was saying, too.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Any idea what the two black dogs in the last 5 seconds of the video were? Sure didn't look like GSD's to me, either Giant Schnauzers or Bouvs. Unless GSD came in a wire coat at one point


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My guess is that "back in the day" all they were lookinf for was a dog that would bite. Scoring points probably hadn't come into vogue yet.
Looked like Giant Schnauzers to me. Strictly based on the style of grooming.
I think the lady doing the talking was discussing a piece of Venerschnitzel stuck in her teeth. That's what it sounded like to me anyway! 8-[


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Judging from Stephanitz's book they had as much problems if not more in the old days...nervy behaviour, soft ears, etcetera.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

while admittedly having a bit of a scewed perception on a lot things (or maybe just a different one, or maybe not that different but just willing to say it) this video makes me think of the bigger picture. there are shitter dogs out there today. we know this much. this video and that other old video have now shown us that there were shitter dogs in the 30's. so what's my big picture revelation?

a lot of the current "yesteryear" people have shitter dogs that they like to say are "real" or "natural protectors" or "not for sport". they will tell you that the sport dogs of today lack discernment and a natural protection instinct which the dogs of yesteryear all had. they will tell you that the dogs of yesteryear were "thinking dogs" not overrun by useless traits such as drive. 

in the end we have to come to the conclusion, much to the chagrin of shitter owners everywhere, that 70+ years of breeding for sport has improved the breed. even in spite of the idiot show people. of course this is a generalization but one has to assume that in order to be filmed, these must have been some well thought of dogs. i doubt they'd take the time to film the worst of their dogs and i'd take just about any dog at any local SchH club than the last dog in that video.

while the DDR thing continues to be an exclusive selling point for breeders, i doubt a dog with true old DDR blood can add much more than proper conformation to the breed. this isn't necessarily a bad thing. i hate the sloped back pieces of crap you see today. i wouldn't mind it so much if the dogs could work beyond the age of 7. when you get both (proper structure and working ability), you get something really special like the tiekerhook dog that daryl has...


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Thank you Tim, I really do feel fortunate. And I know alot of folks would assume "too much drive" equates with less thinking, and it would seem logical to suppose so, but I find exceptions to that. Despite the drives, this boy really thinks, you can see in his eyes when he's really trying to figure out what I want.



Tim Martens said:


> they will tell you that the sport dogs of today lack discernment and a natural protection instinct which the dogs of yesteryear all had. they will tell you that the dogs of yesteryear were "thinking dogs" not overrun by useless traits such as drive.


Another example with a strong prey-drive dog: One day all the members of the club had their dogs engage the decoy in a playground. First engaging on the ground, then as the handler held the dog, the decoy ran off climbed to the very top of the play equipment, going around a series of steps to get to the spiral slide. My Elektra was the only dog that day, who did not run to the base of the spiral slide and attempt a bark and hold from ground level. Instead, she turned toward the stairs and ramps and promptly found the decoy at the top of the play equipment.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

there's no substitute for drive. you can teach a dog through training to channel their drive and expose them to situations where they will learn to use that noodle between their ears, but if the dog doesn't have enough drive to do the job, you're stuck.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

This reminds me, something I posted elsewhere. I don't necessarily believe the dogs were better in those days, but today's arenas have allowed some gawdawful dogs to slip through the cracks (i.e. anyone see videos of the USA Sieger show in San Jose?) This interesting site is pertaining to ALL breeds...



> Nach langer langer Zeit, nun sind es 18 Jahre nach der Wende, wird es unserer Meinung nach höchste Zeit das alte DDR System der Gebrauchshundeausbildung wieder auferleben zu lassen!!
> 
> _After a long long time, now it's 18 years after reunification, it is our opinion high time the old East German system of the utility dog training again auferleben to leave!_


http://www.sdg2000.de/
*26.03.08 We are Online!*


Translation http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=de_en&trurl=http://www.sdg2000.de/



> Our philosophy and the motive for the establishment of this club lie for a long time back and in the heart of our dogs.
> Already much to for a long time we had our dogs into such a non-practical and nature-strange system like that of the IPO of sport obligations. With all its dog-irrelevant regularities. "the dog SHOULD, COULD, WOULD HAVE" like it on each examination is called. We arrived at one point, where the dog cannot be trained any longer clean and more akurater, where the dog has only like a machine functioned, no more life and free space and very often only than sport equipment is led.
> This trend whether such as IPO we would like to against-steer Agility or SchH. We would like to bring again a program into being, where the dog may be still dog. Where there are reductions and free spaces in the training. Where it still possible is to be scored by achievement and health.
> It should be a program, which mentions HEALTH from the dog HARDNESS, GUMPTION and like already required, what in addition, by the dog leader time, strength and reorientation demands. This begins in the track examination, goes over the subordination up to the protection service. We would not like to again invent the wheel here. We would like to take over that which made in former times already so much good. I very often see this with us in the KNPV. As healthy and vital here the dogs are. For many years I believed to be able to establish this system in Germany. But this remains a dream. The German is not ready to put as much work and sweat into a program as the KNPV over in the end to experience that its dog is not anything, because a Dutch aid bought the gumption from the dog, or he perhaps already fell through in districts. Then the language problem and still some other problems which do not come the German in the sport to have would like. Best a program as simple as possible is and a dog that corresponds.... Then 15 years later the question why now the dogs all are ill however not on it come that it lie...
> ...


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

This one was intressting, DDR-trial from 1973,

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=HNjX96qXpKQ&feature=related


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Erik Berg said:


> This one was intressting, DDR-trial from 1973,
> 
> http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=HNjX96qXpKQ&feature=related


unbelievable. behemoth dogs that can't make a 4 foot jump into a boxcar. dogs jogging blinds, not making it to them, cutting them short, not going around, jumping up into the crowd. 

i think i like the bitework routine better. i like the full run away and triceps bite and the one good whack when the dog is inbound (ala KNPV) with the stick rather than 20 baby taps. 

decoy just ran that schnauzer outta there. 

overall NOT impressive...


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Interesting stuff. Lots of bites near the hand end of the sleeve, and lots of pretty sloppy performances. I couldn't believe that one dog jumping into the crowd! I don't think the dog getting run is anything special, there are plenty of recent videos showing dogs getting run off the field at major events.

As far as the run away and give the dog a tricep bite, those are some brave decoys! Way to easy for the dog to grab them by the back or take a leg!

The first video that was linked, look at the training style. Forcing the dogs into a sit and down, and the dogs looked spooked. 

This one is pretty cool- all obedience but they have the dogs doing a crawl to the handler. And whatever happened to the straight wall! 
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=MF4MB91KlUw&feature=related


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Dan Long said:


> Interesting stuff. Lots of bites near the hand end of the sleeve, and lots of pretty sloppy performances.


It appeared to me in that first video that that particular sleeve was designed FOR targeting the hand.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Aside from all generations having shitters, I think these videos also show that we're advancing in our training abilities. 
The best dog in the world will look like a shitter with bad training. :wink:


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Gotta give it to those dogs for sticking up and even managing to perform knowing the training methods in those days...


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Lyn Chen said:


> Gotta give it to those dogs for sticking up and even managing to perform knowing the training methods in those days...


I think this is a very good point. Training methods have come a LONG way since those videos were taken. Not saying the dogs are "all that" but you do have to wonder what they could have been if they had been trained today vs back then. I bet they'd look a lot better then they do.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

The dog that appears at 1:52 in the video is a spitting image of my Xena.. 8-[


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I actually like some of those dogs. Do we still have Giant Schnauzers like those? I'm starting to want one of those big hairy things.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

The only thing that was better years ago was double bubble chewing gum, it was huge and came with cartoons.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=it3udPj59kE


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Catalina Valencia said:


> Interesting, I just wish I could understand what they are saying.
> 
> http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=42mR2vLSekQ&feature=related



This is a rough translation;

*"1945 - Germany lies in ruins. As a result of WW2 it is divided into four 
different sectors by the alliied forces. The nation later is permanently 
divided by the construction of the wall in 1961. It runs through all of 
Germany and is heavily guarded by the border protection forces of the 
national people's army. Crossing the wall is nearly impossible. Behind it in 
the German Democratic Republic a socialist state is being built up by Walter 
Ulbricht. 

Isolated from each other, two different breeds of German Sheepdogs emerged. 
We'll take a closer look at the Eastern German Sheepdog now. The German 
Sheepdog in the GDR was a symbol of courage, toughness and endurance. 
Whereever working dogs were used, in their original line of work as herding 
dogs, in the people's police or in the border guards, it usually was the 
German Sheepdog.

After the political change in 1989 the Eastern German Sheepdog started its 
story of success around the world. Today, more than a decade later, it is 
more popular than ever. Still, the number of true GDR-bred sheepdogs is 
steadily declining."

*


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks Gary!


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## Catalina Valencia (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks a lot Gary!!

Now, a question for the experts... It's me or the helper in the video is trying no to be bitten, something like Ring helpers do?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just a guess but I think that could very well be the level of helper work in that time period.


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