# Sable bred to Sable



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Can they produce a black???


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

If each one of the parents carries the black gene, and they both give it...
It's possible. IMO not very likely, but possible


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Should also add, if either one of the parents carries pure for sable, you are out of luck.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Share the pedigree and I might be able to give you a better idea.


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Yes.

Laura


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=494151


Just asking?????


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I have always been told this could not happen. Now I'm don't know. Help me out Daryl


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

If you google "dog color genetics" there is a ton of info out there. Sable is dominant over recessive black, both are possible variations on the same locus, there are two copies of every gene (chromosomes are in pairs, except the sex-determining ones). One chromosome could have Sable, the other Black, and the dog would look sable while still able to pass on the black. If two dogs both have a Sable and a Black gene (each donates one chromosome to the offspring) it is possible for them to each pass on the black gene - the pup would have two black genes, and would be black in color.

Does that make any sense?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

This link may help..

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingHond...spot;Ticking;,C;RM;ticking;;;,C;RM; harlequin;;;


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Anna, I read every word a time or two. Didn't understand a lot of it but I gather you are saying they can.

Thanks Anna


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Yeah you can get black offspring from two sables. I saw the pedigree you posted and there isnt much black to be seen behind it. Both parents would have to carry the black gene for it to happen. The more generations in a pedigree without blacks in it willl reduce the chances of it. The odds of a black from the pedigree you posted is pretty small, but possible.


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## Leslie Patterson (Mar 6, 2008)

Could anyone tell me what this combo could produce for colours?
http://www.working-dog.eu/wurf-details/14754/von-Kalt-Bach


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Looking at Pedigree the dog grandfater Filou is a bi-color. Right their is a big marker.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

try this to understand. Nice website Daryl..

http://www.ehretgsd.com/genetics.htm#ColorBasics


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

both parents have produced other blacks. so they both carry the black gene


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Filou was a carrier, and it's confirmed Tino gained it from him. I'm not sure where it's coming from on the damside right now. I figured Asko could be ruled out, but the database shows a couple black progeny from him. I doubt the validity of that, though, and would guess it's coming through Holly instead.

I'm whelping puppies right now, so I'll look into it some other time. 3 down, and about 9 more to go.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> I figured Asko could be ruled out, but the database shows a couple black progeny from him. I doubt the validity of that, though, and would guess it's coming through Holly instead.


why?


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I haven't extensively researched Asko, but because of SOOO many progeny listed, there's something like ONLY two blacks, one male, one female, neither of which could be found registered on the SV website to verify their pedigree. You can't trust the pedigreedatabase completely. It's useful, but inaccurate.

Meanwhile, there are LOTS of sable progeny, black & tans, blanketbacks, and this is consistent with the phenotypes of his breeding partners.

Currently, I'm up to 8 pups now, about 4 more to go. Both parents are sable, and three black puppies in there, so far. This, from a repeat breeding, where all of the 8 pups turned out sable. I knew my sire carried the recessive black, and now can confirm that the dam does.


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## charles Turner (Mar 2, 2009)

Pretty good timing for the OP, Mr. Ehret knows his stuff when it comes this, if anyone can help you, he can.


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