# For the ones who misses Jeff O.



## Selena van Leeuwen

He has his own board now, he can't be kicked out from that one :mrgreen:


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## Dave Colborn

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> He has his own board now, he can't be kicked out from that one :mrgreen:


 
He has beer and brats over there too!

And vids of himself training.


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## Lee H Sternberg

I miss his kind heart and wonderful sense of humor. Way to go JEFFERY!:grin:


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## Dave Colborn

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I miss his kind heart and wonderful sense of humor. Way to go JEFFERY!:grin:


He is the kind of guy that makes you want to cuddle kittens after talking with. Very down to earth guy.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Dave Colborn said:


> He is the kind of guy that makes you want to cuddle kittens after talking with. Very down to earth guy.


Charming is the word that always came to my mind with old Jeffery. I always felt so bad that he was so submissive and let everyone step all over him.\\/


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## Thomas Barriano

The sad thing is if you don't go along with the crowd and trash everyone else on Jeff's board. You'll get dropped. I'd rather train my dogs


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## Dave Colborn

Thomas Barriano said:


> The sad thing is if you don't go along with the crowd and trash everyone else on Jeff's board. You'll get dropped. I'd rather train my dogs


 
Damn. didn't get an invite, I guess.


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## Connie Sutherland

Dave Colborn said:


> Damn. didn't get an invite, I guess.


I too am huddled alone, dejected and rejected.


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## Skip Morgart

I refuse to be a part of any group where the standards are so low that they would invite me to be a member.


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## Nathen Danforth

Thomas,

That was the FB group where the options are Participate or Be Chopped. The forum is open to all and you can be as boring as you like.


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## Thomas Barriano

Dave Colborn said:


> Damn. didn't get an invite, I guess.


Wrong again Dave 
I was thinking about the FB page. I didn't know there was an actual board now. I was on the FB page for a couple of weeks and then just got bored with the juvenile cliquish nonsense and stopped posting and got chopped. There's enough silliness here to fill my daily quota.


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## Thomas Barriano

Nathen Danforth said:


> Thomas,
> 
> That was the FB group where the options are Participate or Be Chopped. The forum is open to all and you can be as boring as you like.


Where is it at?
Can you just lurk and laugh at the people who have never done anything criticize people that have?


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## Nathen Danforth

Pot meet kettle, but yes you can lurk, participation is encouraged but not mandatory. Just google Jeff's kennel name and you'll find it.


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## David Frost

Connie Sutherland said:


> I too am huddled alone, dejected and rejected.



I'm beyond crushes that I was ignored as well.

DFrost


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## Gillian Schuler

Connie, David

I received an invitation and decided to participate.

You don't need an invitation - many a party has been gatecrashed.

My problem at the moment is that I am hanging in the air with my attitude to dogs. I love my dogs - they don't love me but are independent of me. At the moment I even think my cat is more intelligent than my dog. 
Alfie could leave whenever he wished but he stays.

Best wishes to all of our moderators, you all do a terrific job for which I am very grateful - Connie, David and Bob. Have we got any more?


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## Lee H Sternberg

Connie Sutherland said:


> I too am huddled alone, dejected and rejected.


I always learned so much from your deep intellectual raw feeding exchanges with Jeffrey.


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## Lee H Sternberg

David Frost said:


> I'm beyond crushes that I was ignored as well.
> 
> DFrost


I'm more than shocked you didn't get a invite to be moderator on his forum. You always got along so well.:razz:


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## Connie Sutherland

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I always learned so much from your deep intellectual raw feeding exchanges with Jeffrey.



Everyone did. :lol:


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## Faisal Khan

What's the address?


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## Connie Sutherland

I know it will be PMed to you.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Connie Sutherland said:


> I know it will be PMed to you.


;-) you got your pm faisal


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## Daryl Ehret

What's the forum going to offer that his facebook group couldn't?


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## Thomas Barriano

Permanent posts plus beer and brats?


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## Faisal Khan

Thanks Selena and Connie.


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## Sally Crunkleton

I guess I missed the entertainment since I am still fairly new hear- I have no idea who he is but now I'm curious! I did get a small dose of the Turnip man with red overalls though, and he was a real charmer!


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## Joby Becker

Sally Crunkleton said:


> I guess I missed the entertainment since I am still fairly new hear- I have no idea who he is but now I'm curious! I did get a small dose of the Turnip man with red overalls though, and he was a real charmer!


oh you should join Jeff's board for sure, don't be shy, post a lot, too. I have read most of your posts, and they are right up Jeff's alley, he loves most of the same topics from what I can tell.  He is a very knowledgeable guy, that is honest and likes to help people, and has a way of communicating that lends itself to easy learning.


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## Dave Colborn

joby becker said:


> oh you should join jeff's board for sure, don't be shy, post a lot, too. I have read most of your posts, and they are right up jeff's alley, he loves most of the same topics from what i can tell.  he is a very knowledgeable guy, that is honest and likes to help people, and has a way of communicating that lends itself to easy learning.


 
oh my.


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## Sally Crunkleton

Joby Becker said:


> oh you should join Jeff's board for sure, don't be shy, post a lot, too. I have read most of your posts, and they are right up Jeff's alley, he loves most of the same topics from what I can tell.  He is a very knowledgeable guy, that is honest and likes to help people, and has a way of communicating that lends itself to easy learning.


Do I detect a set up or should I just assume since you've read most of my posts that you feel I'm the kind if idiot he'd like to tear up? Thanks.


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## Ariel Peldunas

Couldn't fight the temptation and took a quick perusal of the forum ...I think it's a good place to learn what not to do.

So far, I've come away with some gems ...particularly that dogs trained to detect both explosives and narcotics (meaning, the same dog detects both) are working in droves overseas, yet dogs trained in both live find and cadaver are not acceptable and that the ability to train a scratch alert on drugs and passive alert on explosives would be the mark of a truly good trainer.

I guess when you're dealing with someone who believes a sport is a true test of a working dog, you can't expect them to have a realistic approach to actual working applications like contraband detection. Disregard the obvious safety issues ...let's encourage trainers who don't know any better to adopt practices that are frowned upon for good reasons.


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## Joby Becker

Sally Crunkleton said:


> Do I detect a set up or should I just assume since you've read most of my posts that you feel I'm the kind if idiot he'd like to tear up? Thanks.


yer a clever gal, not an idiot for sure, but you CAN smell a set up...cheers


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## Sally Crunkleton

Joby Becker said:


> yer a clever gal, not an idiot for sure, but you CAN smell a set up...cheers


Lol...I am staying away from that hornets nest


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## Lee H Sternberg

Joby Becker said:


> oh you should join Jeff's board for sure, don't be shy, post a lot, too. I have read most of your posts, and they are right up Jeff's alley, he loves most of the same topics from what I can tell.  He is a very knowledgeable guy, that is honest and likes to help people, and has a way of communicating that lends itself to easy learning.


And don't forget how much he respects lady, or as he would say, CHICK trainers, breeders and handlers!\\/


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## mike suttle

Here is just one example of the type of quality training that one can expect to learn over there at Jeff's place. Take a look at the grip and committment of this dog!!!! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A&list=UU7bsOJ3bQXk0EyPyzS2FP5Q&index=3


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## Dave Colborn

mike suttle said:


> Here is just one example of the type of quality training that one can expect to learn over there at Jeff's place. Take a look at the grip and committment of this dog!!!!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A&list=UU7bsOJ3bQXk0EyPyzS2FP5Q&index=3


 
Dog looked fine....What?


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## mike suttle

Dave Colborn said:


> Dog looked fine....What?


LOL, ok then............nevermind. Ha Ha


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## Dave Colborn

mike suttle said:


> LOL, ok then............nevermind. Ha Ha


 
hahahahahaha. I went. I think they are making fun of people.

I mean drugs and bombs?

dont' want dogs to counter?

I think they are just seeing who they can bait in..


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## mike suttle

Dave Colborn said:


> hahahahahaha. I went. I think they are making fun of people.
> 
> I mean drugs and bombs?
> 
> dont' want dogs to counter?
> 
> I think they are just seeing who they can bait in..


That was my first thought too, that they have to just be ****ing with people. But now I am starting to think that they are serious about what they are doing and saying. There is a video their in the police dog section of a dog "hunting" that looks to me like he is just being led around the room, the dog has no hunt drive that I can see, so desire to play with or keep the toy, and not really any odor recognition when the handler takes him to the source. Unfortunately this dog came from me as a puppy and for sure had the drive he needed at 8 weeks old. He is a product of very poor work in my opinion. SO if they are just ****ing with people they are doing it at the expense of the dogs.


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## Ariel Peldunas

Dave Colborn said:


> hahahahahaha. I went. I think they are making fun of people.
> 
> I mean drugs and bombs?
> 
> dont' want dogs to counter?
> 
> I think they are just seeing who they can bait in..


I hate to say it, but I can see the logic in not wanting a dog to counter if your only goal is training for ring and you prefer points over having a dog that looks strong in the bitework ...full grips don't matter, but releasing fast does. However, just throwing out a video of a dog being taught to push in and saying that's what's killing dog sports in the US with little background information or further explanation is just silly. But, I guess when you look at the source and consider his accomplishments or watch his videos, you can understand. How could you get a bunch of people to drink your Kool-Aid if you don't also make them all believe what everyone else has to offer is poison?


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## susan tuck

mike suttle said:


> Here is just one example of the type of quality training that one can expect to learn over there at Jeff's place. Take a look at the grip and committment of this dog!!!!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A&list=UU7bsOJ3bQXk0EyPyzS2FP5Q&index=3


As an aside, I'd like to point out that the guy in the video with the Santa gut (Jeff) is the same one who is obsessed with the question of why there are so many "fat chicks" (his words) in dog sport............to coin his phrase: "BAHAHAHAHAHAHA"


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## Kadi Thingvall

Ariel Peldunas;372553How could you get a bunch of people to drink your Kool-Aid if you don't also make them all believe what everyone else has to offer is poison?[/QUOTE said:


> This should be the quote of the month. Its true on so many levels, and in so many clubs, sports, etc.


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## Doug Zaga

Who is this F'ktard Jeff O?


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## Daniel Lybbert

> I hate to say it, but I can see the logic in not wanting a dog to counter if your only goal is training for ring and you prefer points over having a dog that looks strong in the bitework ...full grips don't matter, but releasing fast does.


Even in ring sports a good grip is very important. A poor grip and the lack of a countering regrip shows some weakness in a dog and will therefore instigate a severe beating from a decoy. A poor gripping dog will get his feet messed with swung around and possibly get thrown off the bite. A ring dog should be able to grab the first available thing. Even if it is with 2 teeth, but when the chance presents its self the dog should be trying to bite more. At least till he has a solid grip. That vid was pretty bad. Poor presentation of the bite. Dog was trying to bite thighs. Handler never helped the problem by keeping the dog from jumping. And a complete equipment failure. How can the dog rebite when the leg sleeve just falls off before the dog even gets a chance to really bite and stay on the bite?


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## Dave Colborn

Ariel Peldunas said:


> I hate to say it, but I can see the logic in not wanting a dog to counter if your only goal is training for ring and you prefer points over having a dog that looks strong in the bitework ...full grips don't matter, but releasing fast does. However, just throwing out a video of a dog being taught to push in and saying that's what's killing dog sports in the US with little background information or further explanation is just silly. But, I guess when you look at the source and consider his accomplishments or watch his videos, you can understand. How could you get a bunch of people to drink your Kool-Aid if you don't also make them all believe what everyone else has to offer is poison?


Doesn't blitzen release quickly and counter?


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## Bob Scott

Ariel Peldunas;372553How could you get a bunch of people to drink your Kool-Aid if you don't also make them all believe what everyone else has to offer is poison?[/QUOTE said:


> This should be the quote of the month. Its true on so many levels, and in so many clubs, sports, etc. __________________
> Kadi Thingvall - www.dantero.com
> www.independentringers.com
> 
> 
> +1 :wink:


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## Zakia Days

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Even in ring sports a good grip is very important. A poor grip and the lack of a countering regrip shows some weakness in a dog and will therefore instigate a severe beating from a decoy. A poor gripping dog will get his feet messed with swung around and possibly get thrown off the bite. A ring dog should be able to grab the first available thing. Even if it is with 2 teeth, but when the chance presents its self the dog should be trying to bite more. At least till he has a solid grip. That vid was pretty bad. Poor presentation of the bite. Dog was trying to bite thighs. Handler never helped the problem by keeping the dog from jumping. And a complete equipment failure. How can the dog rebite when the leg sleeve just falls off before the dog even gets a chance to really bite and stay on the bite?


So very true. We like a re-grip and commitment. We prefer a full grip and work this in training if we have to. Not all ring folks do, but this is important to a lot of us.


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## Ariel Peldunas

Is the grip judged in ring? Do you get more points if the dog has a full grip verses only having a couple canines on the suit?

My intention was not to debate whether a full grip is preferred or not. Certainly, in my own dogs I prefer a full grip. However, my understanding is that a full grip does not earn you more points in ring.


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## mike suttle

Dave Colborn said:


> Doesn't blitzen release quickly and counter?[/QUOTE
> Blitzen does counter in, and she releases quickly, but not nearly as quickly as most French ring dogs that I've seen.


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## Meg O'Donovan

One must admit that the _Secret Squirrel_ music in that "Skittle and Leo" video was excellent.


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## Thomas Barriano

Doug Zaga said:


> Who is this F'ktard Jeff O?


I understand he's a gay fu*ktard.


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## Erica Boling

In French Ring dogs are not judged by their grip. They just lose points if they rebite, but the grip itself is not judged or given points. 




Ariel Peldunas said:


> Is the grip judged in ring? Do you get more points if the dog has a full grip verses only having a couple canines on the suit?
> 
> My intention was not to debate whether a full grip is preferred or not. Certainly, in my own dogs I prefer a full grip. However, my understanding is that a full grip does not earn you more points in ring.


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## Daniel Lybbert

not really a regrip or rebite. It is a change of grip.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Jeffrey never really needed a dog! He could bark and bite just fine all by himself. A dog was just bling for him.

God I miss him! He would really enjoy the hell out of this thread. I can just hear him now!#-o:lol:


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## leslie cassian

mike suttle said:


> Here is just one example of the type of quality training that one can expect to learn over there at Jeff's place. Take a look at the grip and committment of this dog!!!!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A&list=UU7bsOJ3bQXk0EyPyzS2FP5Q&index=3


Dog looks like he has potential. Handler needs work.


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## Kevin Cyr

leslie cassian said:


> Dog looks like he has potential. Handler needs work.


 
without knowing the training session goal, how can you tell anything, youtube vids show GOOD and BAD of all dogs as well as handlers just saying... 

comment is general to thread not you leslie, sorry...


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## Dave Colborn

Kevin Cyr said:


> without knowing the training session goal, how can you tell anything, youtube vids show GOOD and BAD of all dogs as well as handlers just saying...
> 
> comment is general to thread not you leslie, sorry...


You can see artifacts of bad training throughout, and current bad rewards for bad behavior. 
That's how.


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## Daryl Ehret

mike suttle said:


> He is a product of very poor work in my opinion. SO if they are just ****ing with people they are doing it at the expense of the dogs.


Seems to me it would BENEFIT the dogs, if the targeted handlers succumb to the pressures of training their dogs better, and the breeders place their puppies more appropriately.


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## Brian Anderson

mike suttle said:


> That was my first thought too, that they have to just be ****ing with people. But now I am starting to think that they are serious about what they are doing and saying. There is a video their in the police dog section of a dog "hunting" that looks to me like he is just being led around the room, the dog has no hunt drive that I can see, so desire to play with or keep the toy, and not really any odor recognition when the handler takes him to the source. Unfortunately this dog came from me as a puppy and for sure had the drive he needed at 8 weeks old. He is a product of very poor work in my opinion. SO if they are just ****ing with people they are doing it at the expense of the dogs.


 ... "for sure had the drive he needed at 8 weeks old" "was a good dawg when he left here but BAD work messed him up" ... how many times have you used that ole line? I will be sure next time to have the decoy slam him into the wall a few good times .. and scream at him while doing it maybe a few desks flying through the air? Hold him up in the air while screaming at him dangling off a bite pillow? LOL Actually he has a pretty decent track record of finds last year. Does pretty good on a track too. At least he is working and not sitting in a kennel ..ya know what I mean? ;-)


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## mike suttle

Brian Anderson said:


> ... "for sure had the drive he needed at 8 weeks old" "was a good dawg when he left here but BAD work messed him up" ... how many times have you used that ole line? I will be sure next time to have the decoy slam him into the wall a few good times .. and scream at him while doing it maybe a few desks flying through the air? Hold him up in the air while screaming at him dangling off a bite pillow? LOL Actually he has a pretty decent track record of finds last year. Does pretty good on a track too. At least he is working and not sitting in a kennel ..ya know what I mean? ;-)


Actually Brian, I very seldom use "that line" because we usually do a good job selecting the right homes for our pups where they will get good work. In any case I am glad you are happy with him. And yes, I'd love to see some video of him being worked hard and tested like you described above. One more thing........I really don't know what you mean about sitting in a kennel, we work our dogs here everyday, there are 5 of us here doing this full time 7 days a week. You see Brian, this is what we do for a living so a dog that is raised here and only "sits in the kennel" is not worth anything as an adult. So they get worked a lot, otherwise the bills don't get paid.

I was really not trying to offend you in the first post I made, but I was being brutally honest about what I saw. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I will tell you my honest opinion about the way a dog works, especially if it is a dog from one of our breedings as is the case here.


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## Brian Anderson

Dave Colborn said:


> You can see artifacts of bad training throughout, and current bad rewards for bad behavior.
> That's how.


artifacts? damn your getting fancy in your old age LOL


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## mike suttle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElY07eyaY3M&feature=player_embedded 

Here is the video thatI was referring to. I made the comment that in my opinion this dog is not hunting, he is being walked around the room, he does not have much drive to play with or posses the toy, and he shows very little odor recognition. Maybe others will come on here and point out the things that I may be missing????


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## Brian Anderson

mike suttle said:


> Actually Brian, I very seldom use "that line" because we usually do a good job selecting the right homes for our pups where they will get good work. In any case I am glad you are happy with him. And yes, I'd love to see some video of him being worked hard and tested like you described above. One more thing........I really don't know what you mean about sitting in a kennel, we work our dogs here everyday, there are 5 of us here doing this full time 7 days a week. You see Brian, this is what we do for a living so a dog that is raised here and only "sits in the kennel" is not worth anything as an adult. So they get worked a lot, otherwise the bills don't get paid.
> 
> I was really not trying to offend you in the first post I made, but I was being brutally honest about what I saw. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I will tell you my honest opinion about the way a dog works, especially if it is a dog from one of our breedings as is the case here.


Offended? ... only if I cant have a second helping of mashed potatoes and gravey! My comment regarding "sitting in the kennel" has no hidden meaning .. simply means the dog is out working not sitting in a kennel like a lot of these dogs do. Anytime your down my way and want to drop in feel free. We have several dogs out here I'm sure you would appreciate.


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## Dave Colborn

Brian Anderson said:


> Offended? ... only if I cant have a second helping of mashed potatoes and gravey! My comment regarding "sitting in the kennel" has no hidden meaning .. simply means the dog is out working not sitting in a kennel like a lot of these dogs do. Anytime your down my way and want to drop in feel free. We have several dogs out here I'm sure you would appreciate.


 

Brian. Did you really train you dog on bombs and narcotics?


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## Brian Anderson

Dave Colborn said:


> Brian. Did you really train you dog on bombs and narcotics?


Dave can I not have a little fun?? GEEEEZZZZZ everyone is so serious anymore LOL


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## Ariel Peldunas

Brian Anderson said:


> Dave can I not have a little fun?? GEEEEZZZZZ everyone is so serious anymore LOL


Hey Brian ...without trying to be antagonistic, my issue with you crosstraining your dog on drugs and explosives is you have mentioned a number of times that you are using him operationally, as well, with a number of successful finds. Although the likelihood that you will encounter an actual explosive device while conducting searches domestically is very low, it still should not be disregarded. Crosstraining on those two odor families is never a good practice to employ or encourage for a multitude of reasons ...specifically because the context is exactly the same whether the dog is searching for drugs or explosives and you will never be able to reliably determine what the dog is alerting to until you physically inspect the location. The US military washes dogs out if there is even suspicion that they have been crosstrained. I know this first hand as I watched them replace an entire kennel of MWDs at Camp Pendleton years ago because there was rumor that the handlers were crosstraining and, when tested, the dogs showed interest in both odors. There are many people with less experience than you who are reading your posts about this, seeing other people commending your work with your dog and continuing to support the idea that a dog can be reliably trained to give specific, distinct indications to both drugs and explosives. 

I think it's important for aspiring trainers to be aware of major training mistakes as soon as possible and cross training those two odor families is something that should not be done ...at least that's my opinion. What further interested me is that you're accepting cross training on drugs and explosives, but say that you're not much on working a dog on both live and cadaver searches. I'm confused as to why you believe one is okay and the other is not. 

Another member of that forum correctly informed you that cross training live find and human remains isn't acceptable for disaster work because finding live people is priority and, again, dogs can't be reliably trained to prefer one target odor over another. However, in wilderness appliations it is commonly accepted and done with success. My own dog was trained to detect human remains and to track live subjects. I have also trained with a number of live find area search dogs (wilderness) that also detect human remains. In this setting, I believe it's possible to change the context enough that the dog has an idea what it is searching for. For my dog, a harness, a different command and specific preparatory behaviors tell her she's tracking and it's clear to me when she is tracking and when she is air scenting. Even if the dog is trained to air scent for both live humans and human remains, wilderness searches present a much different environment than disaster searches. In the wilderness, a missing person is typically not buried under a pile of rubble. Additionally, there are usually not multiple targets in various locations (one person or a group of people lost in the woods would not be dispersed throughout the search area). Finally, if the missing person has expired, the live find dog would still have success in locating the missing person if it was also trained to find human remains. I have talked to wilderness handlers who decide to train their dogs on human remains for that last reason alone ...so they don't miss a find because the dog is only looking for a live person and the person is no longer alive.

Anyway, I don't know if all of this is falling on deaf ears, but I know you are always aspiring to be a better trainer and are also working with handlers in your area to help train their dogs. I feel it's important that you understand why cross training is unacceptable in some applications and useful in others.


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## Brian Anderson

Ariel Peldunas said:


> Hey Brian ...without trying to be antagonistic, my issue with you crosstraining your dog on drugs and explosives is you have mentioned a number of times that you are using him operationally, as well, with a number of successful finds. Although the likelihood that you will encounter an actual explosive device while conducting searches domestically is very low, it still should not be disregarded. Crosstraining on those two odor families is never a good practice to employ or encourage for a multitude of reasons ...specifically because the context is exactly the same whether the dog is searching for drugs or explosives and you will never be able to reliably determine what the dog is alerting to until you physically inspect the location. The US military washes dogs out if there is even suspicion that they have been crosstrained. I know this first hand as I watched them replace an entire kennel of MWDs at Camp Pendleton years ago because there was rumor that the handlers were crosstraining and when tested, the dogs showed interest in both odors. There are many people with less experience than you who are reading your posts about this, seeing other people commending your work with your dog and continuing to support the idea that a dog can be reliably trained to give specific, distinct indications to both drugs and explosives.
> 
> I think it's important for aspiring trainers to be aware of major training mistakes as soon as possible and cross training those two odor families is something that should not be done ...at least that's my opinion. What further interested me is that you're accepting cross training on drugs and explosives, but say that you're not much on working a dog on both live and cadaver searches. I'm confused as to why you believe one is okay and the other is not.
> 
> Another member of that forum mentioned that isn't acceptable for disaster work because finding live people is priority and, again, dogs can't be reliably trained to prefer one target odor over another. However, my own dog was trained to detect human remains and to track live subjects. I have also trained with a number of live find area search dogs (wilderness) that also detect human remains. In this setting, I believe it's possible to change the context enough that the dog has an idea what it is searching for. For my dog, a harness, a different command and specific preparatory behaviors tell her she's tracking and it's clear to me when she is tracking and when she is air scenting. Even if the dog is trained to air scent for both live humans and human remains, wilderness searches present a much different environment than disaster searches. In the wilderness, a missing person is typically not buried under a pile of rubble. Additionally, there are usually not multiple targets in various locations (one person or a group of people lost in the woods would not be dispersed throughout the search area). Finally, if the missing person has expired, the live find dog would still have success in locating the missing person if it was also trained to find human remains. I have talked to wilderness handlers who decide to train their dogs on human remains for that last reason alone ...so they don't miss a find because the dog is only looking for a live person and the person is not longer alive.
> 
> Anyway, I don't know if all of this is falling on deaf ears, but I know you are always aspiring to be a better trainer and are also working with handlers in your area to help train their dogs. I feel it's important that you understand why cross training is unacceptable in some applications and useful in others.


.. THATS LOTS OF TYPING LOL ... if you did that on a phone you are BADASS LOL ... I was having fun with Konnie (although I wasnt sure if it was her or not).... BUT! As you stated Rocco will never be in a position to hunt for explosives .. at least not any that I am aware of. I agree on the cross training part for any dog that will be used in that context. ....... the dog I mentioned that was cross trained on cadaver/live just impresses the shit outta me (not my dog). He has proven in training to be capable and has a few nice finds (real duty). I personally do not care for training a cadaver/live find dog. I debated her and she proceeded to prove me wrong!! *GASP* LOL ... there is always room for improvement!! As I have stated many times ... everytime I think I have this thing figured out some smart elec dog shows up and demonstrates I am not even close ;-)


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## Ang Cangiano

Brian Anderson said:


> . I debated her and she proceeded to prove me wrong!! *GASP* LOL ... there is always room for improvement!! As I have stated many times ... everytime I think I have this thing figured out some smart elec dog shows up and demonstrates I am not even close ;-)


"The only sure mind is a closed one."
;-)

Ang


----------



## Brian Anderson

Ang Cangiano said:


> "The only sure mind is a closed one."
> ;-)
> 
> Ang


----------



## Skip Morgart

Yeah, I still miss Jeff O. I still miss my ex-wife once in awhile too..... but my aim gets better every month.


----------



## Dave Colborn

apparently he didn't miss me.

I ahahahahahahahaha'ed him twice and now I can't log in.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


koolaid


----------



## Ariel Peldunas

Dave Colborn said:


> apparently he didn't miss me.
> 
> I ahahahahahahahaha'ed him twice and now I can't log in.
> 
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
> 
> 
> koolaid


It's funny ...I was reading your post, finding it amusing how you were pointing out his contradictions and actually having the nerve to ask him to explain himself logically and intelligently, wondering what his response would be ...and then I saw he blocked you. I guess when you have your own forum, you can make sure no one disagrees with you or suggests any alternate ideas or methods.

It makes me much more grateful that the WDF exists ...I don't mind respectfully disagreeing with people. Sometimes, I even learn something new!


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Dave Colborn said:


> apparently he didn't miss me.
> 
> I ahahahahahahahaha'ed him twice and now I can't log in.
> 
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
> 
> 
> koolaid


Like I said before
"The sad thing is if you don't go along with the crowd and trash everyone else on Jeff's board. You'll get dropped. I'd rather train my dogs"

Jeff was a bully on the WDF 
He was a bully on his FB page
He's a bully on his new board
You don't go along with his agenda? You get chopped.
You challenge his delusional "I'm a superior breeder/trainer"
you lose your posting privs.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Dave Colborn said:


> apparently he didn't miss me.
> 
> I ahahahahahahahaha'ed him twice and now I can't log in.


LOL Typical

I asked him a question regarding some health results on one of his dogs on his Facebook group(advertising a better hip rating then the dog had) and he deleted my posts, then posted some nasty stuff about me, then deleted those posts and banned me LOL

Oh well, no loss.


----------



## Bob Scott

All so typical! If we sent him a pm to back off a bit when he was going after someone his comment was always "If they can't take it they should leave".


----------



## Brian Anderson

Ariel Peldunas said:


> It's funny ...I was reading your post, finding it amusing how you were pointing out his contradictions and actually having the nerve to ask him to explain himself logically and intelligently, wondering what his response would be ...and then I saw he blocked you. I guess when you have your own forum, you can make sure no one disagrees with you or suggests any alternate ideas or methods.
> 
> It makes me much more grateful that the WDF exists ...I don't mind respectfully disagreeing with people. Sometimes, I even learn something new!


If I deleted blocked or whatever else there is these days ... everytime I disagreed with folks ,,,,hell I would be sitting her talking to myself all the time... and i do that plenty already lol


----------



## mike suttle

What I really like is how he just blatantly makes up complete lies about me just to try to run my name through the mud. 
For example he recently posted that I used to work at Global Canine where I was fired for not being able to train dogs..........LOL Hell, I had to google Global Canine just to find out what state they were even in. I had never heard of them, let alone ever worked for them. Turns out they are in TX, very near to where Jeff lives. HA Ha
And then of course how he makes up fake facebook names and steels my picture to put up as his own!!!!
I am actually flattered that someone would be that concerned about me that they feel the need to do this silly crap, but I find it a bit odd for sure.

I think the most recent thing he posted (just a couple days ago) was that his female named "Skittles" that I posted a video of on this thread is a better working dog than anything I have ever produced, and then he went so far as to say that he can prove it.

Now that is something that I would pay to see, and here is my proposition to make it happen:
We will host a seminar here at our facility and invite everyone who has a dog that we have produced, of course some of the Govt agencies like US Customs and Border Patrol, and DOD who have our dogs would not be able to bring them to our seminar because their policy would not allow it, but I am sure we could get a few Tier 1 SF dogs that were born and bred here, as well as many dual purpose police and SWAT dogs here, and also a few sport dogs and USAR dogs here as well, and we also have several here on site now from our own program that we could include in this evaluation. 
I would be willing to pay to have Jeff and his dog flown up here so that he can show us all first hand how Skittles is a better dog than EVERY dog I have ever produced.

Here is a video of the dog that he said in his own words is "better than anything Suttle has ever produced and I can prove it"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A

So Jeff, I am gonna let you prove it, 100% free of charge.


----------



## Dave Colborn

And the internet got real...That is awesome




mike suttle said:


> Now that is something that I would pay to see, and here is my proposition to make it happen:
> We will host a seminar here at our facility and invite everyone who has a dog that we have produced, of course some of the Govt agencies like US Customs and Border Patrol, and DOD who have our dogs would not be able to bring them to our seminar because their policy would not allow it, but I am sure we could get a few Tier 1 SF dogs that were born and bred here, as well as many dual purpose police and SWAT dogs here, and also a few sport dogs and USAR dogs here as well, and we also have several here on site now from our own program that we could include in this evaluation.
> I would be willing to pay to have Jeff and his dog flown up here so that he can show us all first hand how Skittles is a better dog than EVERY dog I have ever produced.
> 
> Here is a video of the dog that he said in his own words is "better than anything Suttle has ever produced and I can prove it"
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A
> 
> So Jeff, I am gonna let you prove it, 100% free of charge.


----------



## Dave Colborn

I re-registered. want me to cross post this for you?



mike suttle said:


> What I really like is how he just blatantly makes up complete lies about me just to try to run my name through the mud.
> For example he recently posted that I used to work at Global Canine where I was fired for not being able to train dogs..........LOL Hell, I had to google Global Canine just to find out what state they were even in. I had never heard of them, let alone ever worked for them. Turns out they are in TX, very near to where Jeff lives. HA Ha
> And then of course how he makes up fake facebook names and steels my picture to put up as his own!!!!
> I am actually flattered that someone would be that concerned about me that they feel the need to do this silly crap, but I find it a bit odd for sure.
> 
> I think the most recent thing he posted (just a couple days ago) was that his female named "Skittles" that I posted a video of on this thread is a better working dog than anything I have ever produced, and then he went so far as to say that he can prove it.
> 
> Now that is something that I would pay to see, and here is my proposition to make it happen:
> We will host a seminar here at our facility and invite everyone who has a dog that we have produced, of course some of the Govt agencies like US Customs and Border Patrol, and DOD who have our dogs would not be able to bring them to our seminar because their policy would not allow it, but I am sure we could get a few Tier 1 SF dogs that were born and bred here, as well as many dual purpose police and SWAT dogs here, and also a few sport dogs and USAR dogs here as well, and we also have several here on site now from our own program that we could include in this evaluation.
> I would be willing to pay to have Jeff and his dog flown up here so that he can show us all first hand how Skittles is a better dog than EVERY dog I have ever produced.
> 
> Here is a video of the dog that he said in his own words is "better than anything Suttle has ever produced and I can prove it"
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A
> 
> So Jeff, I am gonna let you prove it, 100% free of charge.


----------



## mike suttle

Dave Colborn said:


> I re-registered. want me to cross post this for you?


Yes Dave, please do. Thanks


----------



## Dave Colborn

mike suttle said:


> Yes Dave, please do. Thanks


I'll also be collecting to pay for Jeff's tickets once he's decided to do it. You shouldn't have to pay for our entertainment. All WDFers, feel free to kick in. Mae a donation to be a part of a good Youtube video.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

mike suttle said:


> What I really like is how he just blatantly makes up complete lies about me just to try to run my name through the mud.
> For example he recently posted that I used to work at Global Canine where I was fired for not being able to train dogs..........LOL Hell, I had to google Global Canine just to find out what state they were even in. I had never heard of them, let alone ever worked for them. Turns out they are in TX, very near to where Jeff lives. HA Ha
> And then of course how he makes up fake facebook names and steels my picture to put up as his own!!!!
> I am actually flattered that someone would be that concerned about me that they feel the need to do this silly crap, but I find it a bit odd for sure.
> 
> I think the most recent thing he posted (just a couple days ago) was that his female named "Skittles" that I posted a video of on this thread is a better working dog than anything I have ever produced, and then he went so far as to say that he can prove it.
> 
> Now that is something that I would pay to see, and here is my proposition to make it happen:
> We will host a seminar here at our facility and invite everyone who has a dog that we have produced, of course some of the Govt agencies like US Customs and Border Patrol, and DOD who have our dogs would not be able to bring them to our seminar because their policy would not allow it, but I am sure we could get a few Tier 1 SF dogs that were born and bred here, as well as many dual purpose police and SWAT dogs here, and also a few sport dogs and USAR dogs here as well, and we also have several here on site now from our own program that we could include in this evaluation.
> I would be willing to pay to have Jeff and his dog flown up here so that he can show us all first hand how Skittles is a better dog than EVERY dog I have ever produced.
> 
> Here is a video of the dog that he said in his own words is "better than anything Suttle has ever produced and I can prove it"
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A
> 
> So Jeff, I am gonna let you prove it, 100% free of charge.


I just love this shit. Mike, are you going to feed him too?\\/


----------



## mike suttle

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I just love this shit. Mike, are you going to feed him too?\\/


Hell no Lee, Have you seen the size of his gut? I can't afford to feed that thing! \\/


----------



## Brian Anderson

ummm this is reminiscent of DAVE vs ... California LOL (see how politcally correct I made that?)


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Dave Colborn said:


> I'll also be collecting to pay for Jeff's tickets once he's decided to do it. You shouldn't have to pay for our entertainment. All WDFers, feel free to kick in. Mae a donation to be a part of a good Youtube video.


We should probably buy him a Escalade to tool around in while he's at Mikes!


----------



## Dave Colborn

Geo metro or escalade. depends on the donations....


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Dave Colborn said:


> Geo metro or escalade. depends on the donations....


Putting Jeffery in a Geo Metro would be reminiscent of fitting all those clowns in a VW that you see in the circus.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Mike

Do you have balls enough to let Jeff's decoy Leo work your dogs?
See how well they do with a real decoy with presence and mad skills? ;-)


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Brian Anderson said:


> ummm this is reminiscent of DAVE vs ... California LOL (see how politcally correct I made that?)


Speaking of Turnipseed, I wonder if he's a founding member of Jeffery's forum, or maybe a moderator.:lol:


----------



## Brian Anderson

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Speaking of Turnipseed, I wonder if he's a founding member of Jeffery's forum, or maybe a moderator.:lol:


you have to go and blow my political correctness!!!


----------



## Joby Becker

better at what?


----------



## Brian Anderson

Joby Becker said:


> better at what?


I was kinda wondering that too ... seems more like a "my Di*& is bigger than his" thing. I have to much gray hair for all that activity..


----------



## mike suttle

Joby Becker said:


> better at what?


Since he is saying that his dog "has no training", (even though he shows video of them trying to do bitework with her), we could just do some basic drive, nerve, and temperament evaluation. We will leave it up the the folks who see it to decide what dog is "better".
Maybe some basic retrieving of many different objects and a simple evaluation of the dogs intensity and desire to keep those objects, some hunting indoors and out, some environmental exposure work, (slippery floors, open stairs, basic indoor agility stuff like jumping and climbing on different things, gun fire, etc) We could do some basic bitework and evaluate the dogs ability to take pressure from the man.
It doesn't have to be a test of any training, just a test of true genetic potential, desire, character, nerve strength, drive, courage, etc.


----------



## Dave Colborn

Joby Becker said:


> better at what?


 
as a tie breaker. spelling bee, go fish, and twister!!


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

I think it's only fair that DonT be the professional, non partial judge of this event.


----------



## kristin tresidder

mike suttle said:


> I think the most recent thing he posted (just a couple days ago) was that his female named "Skittles" that I posted a video of on this thread is a better working dog than anything I have ever produced, and then he went so far as to say that he can prove it.
> 
> Now that is something that I would pay to see, and here is my proposition to make it happen:
> We will host a seminar here at our facility and invite everyone who has a dog that we have produced...I would be willing to pay to have Jeff and his dog flown up here so that he can show us all first hand how Skittles is a better dog than EVERY dog I have ever produced.
> 
> Here is a video of the dog that he said in his own words is "better than anything Suttle has ever produced and I can prove it"
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVf-4zSj0A
> 
> So Jeff, I am gonna let you prove it, 100% free of charge.



hey mike, i think my rip is a better dog than any you have ever bred OR imported. here is a video to prove it:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9fjYesR7LvU

now, should i look for my free vacation package to loganhaus to come in the mail, or do you want my email address to send it digitally? ;-)


----------



## mike suttle

kristin tresidder said:


> hey mike, i think my rip is a better dog than any you have ever bred OR imported. here is a video to prove it:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/embed/9fjYesR7LvU
> 
> now, should i look for my free vacation package to loganhaus to come in the mail, or do you want my email address to send it digitally? ;-)


Hey Kristin, 
I can't argue with you there! :wink: She looks like a super cool little dog for sure. She also looks much better than the one that Jeff posted video of too. LOL 
How bout we split the difference on the vacation package here? You can come for free to watch Jeff's "Skittles" outperform every dog I have ever produced, but you will have to pay your travel expenses to get here. Bring Rip with you, and Lo, and any other dog you want and I will be happy to work them all for you while you're here.


----------



## David Ruby

kristin tresidder said:


> hey mike, i think my rip is a better dog than any you have ever bred OR imported. here is a video to prove it:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/embed/9fjYesR7LvU
> 
> now, should i look for my free vacation package to loganhaus to come in the mail, or do you want my email address to send it digitally? ;-)


No offense, but this may be the most worthwhile thing to come from this thread. What a cool dog!

Alright, the kid's pretty cool too. :razz: Nice video.

-Cheers


----------



## Brian Anderson

thats a cool video Kristin !! the dog and the kid are having fun!! Those staffies are very cool too...


----------



## Ralph Tough

Dave Colborn said:


> apparently he didn't miss me.
> 
> I ahahahahahahahaha'ed him twice and now I can't log in.
> 
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
> 
> 
> koolaid


How did you get banned? As I’m having difficulty leaving his Forum. ](*,)


----------



## Ariel Peldunas

Ralph Tough said:


> How did you get banned? As I’m having difficulty leaving his Forum. ](*,)


I think the key is to back him into a corner ...ask him to explain himself logically, use facts instead of fabricated stories to support your argument and ask to see some proof that he has the ability to train a dog to outperform any one of the many trainers he criticizes. Jeff can't seem to handle facts and when you start making sense, he plays dirty and either gets personal or blocks you.


----------



## Dave Colborn

Ralph Tough said:


> How did you get banned? As I’m having difficulty leaving his Forum. ](*,)


post this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:[6]

*Shamelessness*: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
*Magical thinking*: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
*Arrogance*: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
*Envy*: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
*Entitlement*: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
*Exploitation*: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
*Bad boundaries*: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.


----------



## Kevin Cyr

picking fights for your dog....really?


----------



## Dave Colborn

Kevin Cyr said:


> picking fights for your dog....really?


 
What do you mean?


----------



## Dave Colborn

I just realized that now that I am banned my posts have been changed under the name of guest. Just an FYI to any that post with Jeff.


----------



## Ralph Tough

WOWWW it finally worked!!! I have been BANNED


----------



## Dave Colborn

Ralph Tough said:


> WOWWW it finally worked!!! I have been BANNED


Not like Winston Wolf, but I have ideas that can fix some things


----------



## Bob Scott

Dave Colborn said:


> I just realized that now that I am banned my posts have been changed under the name of guest. Just an FYI to any that post with Jeff.



Turnipseed reincarnated! 
I suspect that jeff is enjoying PMs from those that will be relaying conversations here. At least enjoying on the outside. :twisted:


----------



## Dave Colborn

Bob Scott said:


> Turnipseed reincarnated!
> I suspect that jeff is enjoying PMs from those that will be relaying conversations here. At least enjoying on the outside. :twisted:


 
Ahhh. Hopefully he'll enjoy his forum and get some dog discussions going. I am going to work at leaving him alone.


----------



## susan tuck

I see Jeff is up to the same old shit. When he gets backed into a corner he makes up lies about people. Of course now that he has his own forum, he can make up lies about people, then ban them (what a hypocrite), rather than run away and hide under his rock until he thinks the coast is clear (what he used to do when he was backed into a corner and made up shit about people). He made up all kinds of crap about me, among which he told people that I had to have my dog alpha rolled by someone else. He's nothing but an Internet Trainer and a bad joke..... Oh and a narcissist - good call, Dave!!! 

I feel sorry for the newbs that follow him, getting a lot of bad advise along the way.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

There aren't that many noob's on jeff's board. Most of the topics are started by Jeff and most of the replies are made by him using various sock puppets and fake names. Jeff is the Sybil of the dog world ;-)


----------



## susan tuck

Thomas Barriano said:


> There aren't that many noob's on jeff's board. Most of the topics are started by Jeff and most of the replies are made by him using various sock puppets and fake names. Jeff is the Sybil of the dog world ;-)


I bet you're right, he pulls that dumb crap on FaceBook. It's was pretty funny when Mike caught him and called him out on it.


----------



## mike suttle

Jeff has made up blatant lies about me saying that I used to work for Global Canine where I was fired and had to beg them to let me keep my job for my wife and kids. LOL
I was the co-owner of Signature K-9 when I got married and had both of my kids, then I started Logan Haus Kennels shortly after that where I have been ever since. I have never worked for Global at all, in fact I had never even heard of them until Jeff brought up their name. He has also made up various other lies about me in the past, as well as blatant lies about Ariel, now lies about Dave, and apparantly many other people as well.

He was upset that I called him a coward because of all the lies he makes up about people behind the keyboard and he runs when the truth is brought out, but in my book he is for sure a coward.

In a recent post he showed a video of a dog that I would consider a washout and he said that the dog was "better than anything Suttle has ever produced" and then he said that he could prove it.
So, I gave him the chance to prove it and guess what...................


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Now that we have outlined all of Jeffery's physiological issues, if we put him on a shrink's couch, what can be done to FIX him?:-k:twisted:](*,):-D


----------



## Doug Zaga

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Now that we have outlined all of Jeffery's physiological issues, if we put him on a shrink's couch, what can be done to FIX him?:-k:twisted:](*,):-D


I am thinking a vet may say put him out to pasture...... :-\"


----------



## leslie cassian

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Now that we have outlined all of Jeffery's physiological issues, if we put him on a shrink's couch, what can be done to FIX him?:-k:twisted:](*,):-D


Same thing we do to "Fix" male dogs?


----------



## susan tuck




----------



## Gillian Schuler

I registered on his forum purely out of interest but haven't been back since registering. I had a number of grudges against him on here but I wanted to see how he was doing. He also wrote some very good posts on here.

Bygones are bygones. The future will tell.

What people on here are saying about the untruths he is spouting - this is obviously not correct - maybe he is feeling insecure?

It doesn't really matter, does it?


----------



## Thomas Barriano

116 replies so far???????

He's getting more attention then when he was actually on the WDF ?
A Legend in his Own Mind ;-)


----------



## susan tuck

I notice he's still using a picture of Mike's as one of his profile pictures on his FB page for one of his multiple personalities (PMilton Longfellow), even though Mike called him on it and told him to take it down. The guy has some very serious issues.


----------



## Katie Finlay

susan tuck said:


> I notice he's still using a picture of Mike's as one of his profile pictures on his FB page for one of his multiple personalities (PMilton Longfellow), even though Mike called him on it and told him to take it down. The guy has some very serious issues.


Yeah, he's a level of crazy that my own crazy is afraid to encounter. Lol


----------



## Lindsay Janes

Why are people so interested in talking about Jeff? Don't you guys have something else better to do? My intentions are not to offend anyone, but seriously 12 pages of talking about Jeff. There are many threads about him on WDF. He must be famous in here or something. Maybe someone will make a big profit off of writing a book on Jeff O. and find a publisher to publish the book. There are people who might be interested to buy. :-o


----------



## Joby Becker

Lindsay Janes said:


> Why are people so interested in talking about Jeff? Don't you guys have something else better to do? My intentions are not to offend anyone, but seriously 12 pages of talking about Jeff. There are many threads about him on WDF. He must be famous in here or something. Maybe someone will make a big profit off of writing a book on Jeff O. and find a publisher to publish the book. There are people who might be interested to buy. :-o


12 pages? I got 3 pages..oops ok NOW there is a 4th page...LOL...


----------



## Lindsay Janes

really? It says 13 page here.


----------



## Joby Becker

Lindsay Janes said:


> really? It says 13 page here.


oooh, you can set it so you get 40 posts per page in the user menu...yours must not be set like that..got it....


----------



## susan tuck

Lindsay Janes said:


> Why are people so interested in talking about Jeff? Don't you guys have something else better to do? My intentions are not to offend anyone, but seriously 12 pages of talking about Jeff. There are many threads about him on WDF. He must be famous in here or something. Maybe someone will make a big profit off of writing a book on Jeff O. and find a publisher to publish the book. There are people who might be interested to buy. :-o


I think infamous is a better word. 
Anyway here's the thing: If you aren't interested in the thread then don't worry about it. What's it to You? Don't you have anything better to do than comment on a thread you supposedly have no interest in?


----------



## Dave Colborn

susan tuck said:


> I think infamous is a better word.
> Anyway here's the thing: If you aren't interested in the thread then don't worry about it. What's it to You? Don't you have anything better to do than comment on a thread you supposedly have no interest in?


She wanted to be part of his mystique. part of the man, the myth, the legend.


----------



## Eric Read

and here come the "don't read it" comments  this thread has over 4 Thousand views, probably one of the most popular on the board at the moment, some people are going to click and see what it's all about.

Then they read it and it says a lot about those keeping his memory going, but not so much about the man himself.


----------



## Joby Becker

Eric Read said:


> and here come the "don't read it" comments  this thread has over 4 Thousand views, probably one of the most popular on the board at the moment, some people are going to click and see what it's all about.
> 
> Then they read it and it says a lot about those keeping his memory going, but not so much about the man himself.


I just clicked to see what you just wrote..


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Eric Read said:


> and here come the "don't read it" comments  this thread has over 4 Thousand views, probably one of the most popular on the board at the moment, some people are going to click and see what it's all about.
> 
> Then they read it and it says a lot about those keeping his memory going, but not so much about the man himself.


If you want to really see popular, Don T can probably give Jeff O a hell of a challenge in a popularity contest.\\/

Don's had his own forum for a long time. Jeff's apparently just started.

They both are very famous previous members here who took a dive. This forum will never be the same without them.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

You Jeff fans need to contribute to his board. He's having a hard time keeping track of all his sock puppets and needs some other people to start posting


----------



## Harry Keely

ummmmmmmm ahhhhhhhh BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, thats about what i got from all these pages so far :---)


----------



## Lindsay Janes

susan tuck said:


> I think infamous is a better word.
> Anyway here's the thing: If you aren't interested in the thread then don't worry about it. What's it to You? Don't you have anything better to do than comment on a thread you supposedly have no interest in?


I chose to be part of this thread because I enjoy reading lots of threads. I don't post often, but I have read lots of threads over the years. One thing I have noticed when I come here on WDF. Lots of threads are all about Jeff. I was not bothered by that, but it gets a bit old. He is all gone. Why are people so interested in him? If he lies and betrayed lots of people in here. People continue talking about him and they are giving him lots of power.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg

Thomas Barriano said:


> You Jeff fans need to contribute to his board. He's having a hard time keeping track of all his sock puppets and needs some other people to start posting


Not a real fan but I have to admit I get off on CONTROVERSY.#-o](*,):grin:

He can create that and he's not even here!


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## Connie Sutherland

Plus where else can you read:



Dave Colborn said:


> She wanted to be part of his mystique. part of the man, the myth, the legend.


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## Faisal Khan

Just bring him back. Imagine this board is USCA and Jeff is WDA, lets hold hands and sing kumbayaa \\/ Jeff's board is sorta dead, could be a win/win situation.


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## Dave Colborn

Faisal Khan said:


> Just bring him back. Imagine this board is USCA and Jeff is WDA, lets hold hands and sing kumbayaa \\/ Jeff's board is sorta dead, could be a win/win situation.


Using your analogy I think you would have to find a third sport such as PSA. This forum has too many good contributors to want to find a third forum. 

People do watch train wrecks and can't look away. It doesn't mean they are a good thing.


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## Faisal Khan

Dave Colborn said:


> Using your analogy I think you would have to find a third sport such as PSA. This forum has too many good contributors to want to find a third forum.
> 
> People do watch train wrecks and can't look away. It doesn't mean they are a good thing.


Either you're confused or I'm drunk.


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## Brian Anderson

susan tuck said:


> I think infamous is a better word.
> Anyway here's the thing: If you aren't interested in the thread then don't worry about it. What's it to You? Don't you have anything better to do than comment on a thread you supposedly have no interest in?


This is straight up rude... and your complaining about others... please!


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## Brian Anderson

Faisal Khan said:


> Either you're confused or I'm drunk.


Faisal apparently I am too ... that one lost me lol Dave?


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## Dave Colborn

Faisal Khan said:


> Either you're confused or I'm drunk.


 
Maybe confused, but if WDA lied and bullied and wouldn't prove something when called out, why would you want to be part of an organization that let them back in. Hence finding a third sport so I wouldn't have to be part of it something I didn't believe in. 

Maybe skewed logic. Maybe not.



disclaimer: this post has nothing to do with which sport is the best. all information is opinion and possibly more confusing than not in regards to WDA, USCA, JEFF, PSA and tasty salad found in a fine restaurant.


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## Bob Scott

"People do watch train wrecks and can't look away. It doesn't mean they are a good thing".


Sort of like tossing your lunch in the porcelain throne then wondering what sort of veggies you had the day before. Just another rotten veggie! :twisted:


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