# reactive dogs



## Teena Patel (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi All!

I have a question about dogs with a high predatory drive, very easily focuse and fixated on fast motion/movement... but even in their most relaxed state, are easily set off.

We have a dog (about 8months old) who was sitting out on the deck next to a 5 month old intact rotty puppy, and withing a split second he got up and nailed the rotty puppy...causing one puncture... but really out of nowhere.....

The 8month old dog, is great around a 12week old puppy.

What is this as a result of?

I have a GSD who displays identical behaviors (4years old) and cant be around puppies at all.... he has ALWAYS gone after them resulting in a puncture.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

My opinion, that reactivenes demonstrates an initiated a hardwired response, one that can be changed with interruption and conditioning. The dog wasn't thinking, just reacting. 8 months is still early enough in its formative stages, to rewire that responsiveness with a behavior check without noticeable loss of reaction time. You'll have to set up a controlled situation that will ignite the behavior, interrupt and redirect. Use a verbal marker as you do, to "anchor" the moment, so a prong or whatever becomes no longer necessary.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

With such a young dog, I would get a copy of "Control Unleashed" and start training!


----------



## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

I have an opinion about a GSD that at 4 years old "always" goes after and wounds puppies, but you probably don't want to hear it.


----------



## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

Teena Patel said:


> Hi All!
> 
> 
> What is this as a result of?
> ...


I think you may have answered your own question. Monkey see, monkey do?

I have an opinion about a GSD that at 4 years old "always" goes after and wounds puppies, but you probably don't want to hear it.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I have a GSD who displays identical behaviors (4years old) and cant be around puppies at all.... he has ALWAYS gone after them resulting in a puncture.

Give that dog a puncture back......the green needle. Well, pink juice.

This is what we like to call a nerve bag, junker, or most of the time a rescue, who is a great dog, BUT..........


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Perhaps not as elequently put as Jeff's suggestion, I do agree. While the behavior may well be hardwired, the wiring is wrong.

DFrost


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Oh, I wasn't referring _at all to the older dog_. That one's easy, I'd just use my "clicker".


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

> I have a GSD who displays identical behaviors (4years old) and cant be around puppies at all.... he has ALWAYS gone after them resulting in a puncture.





> Give that dog a puncture back......the green needle. Well, pink juice.


while i prefer my males to like puppies, and tolerate their antics to a point, i'm curious why the vehement reaction to an adult (male) dog that doesn't care for puppies. i have two that do not like puppies at all, and have seen/heard of many dogs that feel the same, and i wouldn't call it a nerve or fear issue. i can't see why you'd put down an otherwise good dog because it doesn't care for pups. personally, i just don't let pups see those two dogs.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Just a tolerance point for me. We understand dog aggression, it's not that infrequent at all, but even _most of those dogs _would never find it necessary to attack puppies. I've not had one, and I wouldn't stand it for a heartbeat. We can tolerate dog aggression, many times handler aggression is justified, but there's never a good cause to stand for puppy aggression that I can imagine. Sure, there's examples in nature, like where rival lions will kill the cubs of other lions. But our dogs aren't lions, any more than they are wolves, or should ever strive to be.

I understand that rescues, for example, won't accept a dog that was merely "intended" for schutzhund sport, whether it was actually trained or not. Yet they'll admit a "sex-trained-for-humans" dog, which is likely more trouble than they can possibly imagine. Why remove the chance for a _redeemable dog_ to have a good life, by filling a shelter vacancy with the likes of that?

_"i just don't let pups see those two dogs"_

Like not letting children play with pedophiles.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: i'm curious why the vehement reaction to an adult (male) dog that doesn't care for puppies. i have two that do not like puppies at all, and have seen/heard of many dogs that feel the same, and i wouldn't call it a nerve or fear issue.

Then you would be wrong. I cannot stand dog aggression. I REALLY cannot stand a dog that cannot be around a puppy without some ****ed up reaction to something smaller than it. The base there is insecurity. I do not want it.

What possible threat does a puppy pose to create such a reaction ??

Junk.


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Then you would be wrong. I cannot stand dog aggression. I REALLY cannot stand a dog that cannot be around a puppy without some ****ed up reaction to something smaller than it. The base there is insecurity.


so you assume that all dog aggression is founded in fear?


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> _"i just don't let pups see those two dogs"_
> 
> Like not letting children play with pedophiles.


ummm yeah - pretty much. i keep my pups safe from things that i know will harm them (whether those things are animate or not) just as parents (should) keep their kids safe from things that they know will harm them.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

That's kind of the point. You can't know there's a problem, until the context is reconstructed. Either make the dog wear a sign that's noticeable from a safe distance, which isn't foolproof cuz puppies can't read, or eliminate the chance it will ever happen again.

_This is not in any way meant to apply to the reactive response of the younger dog in the OP's example, what I believed was the focus of the thread._


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> That's kind of the point. You can't know there's a problem, until the context is reconstructed. Either make the dog wear a sign that's noticeable from a safe distance, which isn't foolproof cuz puppies can't read, or eliminate the chance it will ever happen again.


 
maybe i look at this a bit differently, since i'm used to dogs that have to be seperated as the status quo, but i don't see why it would be so hard to "eliminate the chance it will ever happen again," once you've identified your dog's predisposition, by simply keeping the dog you know doesn't like puppies away from puppies. IE, have him kenneled while the pups are out, and then have the pups kenneled when he is out. problem avoided, & dog not dead.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

kristin tresidder said:


> maybe i look at this a bit differently, since i'm used to dogs that have to be seperated as the status quo, but i don't see why it would be so hard to "eliminate the chance it will ever happen again," once you've identified your dog's predisposition, by simply keeping the dog you know doesn't like puppies away from puppies. IE, have him kenneled while the pups are out, and then have the pups kenneled when he is out. problem avoided, & dog not dead.


This is normal for me. I'm really amazed that I put two females out in the yard for 30 seconds and there wasn't an issue. I am amazed an slightly horrified by people who leave any dogs together, for any reason, for any amount of time, under any level of supervision.

I've learned the hard way. I had a NOT dog-vs-dog aggressive male, about 2 - 3 years old that appeared to be totally fine with puppies. Not so much. The pup gpt too much in his face or biting his legs or whatever, one warning growl, one snap and I was at the emergency vet. A year later, I had forgotten the incident and it happened again - that time the pup had to have surgery to put her face back on. 

It doesn't take dog-vs-dog aggression, a fearful dog, or even much of anything to have a problem. Separation is the best and only way to keep them all safe. JMHO. 

Maybe if I have a different favorite breed I'll change my opinion. :lol:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I forgot your a tardo bulldog person.

Quote: so you assume that all dog aggression is founded in fear?


Of course not. What was I thinking. I am talking about how ****ing useless a dog would be that for no reason strikes out, and talking about how I would take a hammer to the head of any of my dogs that would kill a puppy just because it existed, and here comes the bulldog people, still assuming that their dogs won't be banned when they continually write shit like:

Quote: i'm curious why the vehement reaction to an adult (male) dog that doesn't care for puppies. i have two that do not like puppies at all, and have seen/heard of many dogs that feel the same, and i wouldn't call it a nerve or fear issue.

Or how about this gem: I've learned the hard way. I had a NOT dog-vs-dog aggressive male, about 2 - 3 years old that appeared to be totally fine with puppies. Not so much. The pup gpt too much in his face or biting his legs or whatever, one warning growl, one snap and I was at the emergency vet. A year later, I had forgotten the incident and it happened again - that time the pup had to have surgery to put her face back on. 


Of course you wouldn't, your one of the "He is a great dog BUT" people. Your standing in the forest argueing that there are no trees.

If a tree falls in a forest, it still makes noise whether you want to believe it or not.

OK, so I have made fun of you in a manner that you will not understand. I will now answer your question.

No, just YOUR dogs. Kill them, as they are worthless if they go after puppies.


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I forgot your a tardo bulldog person.
> 
> Quote: so you assume that all dog aggression is founded in fear?
> 
> Of course not. What was I thinking.


i'm not exactly sure, since all i have to go on is what you said. 



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am talking about how ****ing useless a dog would be that for no reason strikes out, and talking about how I would take a hammer to the head of any of my dogs that would kill a puppy just because it existed,


her dog didn't kill the puppy though. he tagged him, causing 'one puncture' to me, that says "stay away from me," not "i'm trying to kill you and failed."



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> OK, so I have made fun of you in a manner that you will not understand. I will now answer your question.
> No, just YOUR dogs. Kill them, as they are worthless if they go after puppies.


the hypocrisy here is a bit amusing. you accuse someone (me, anne, not sure) of "not understanding" your ridicule; because clearly, since we don't have PhDs, (well, maybe anne does) or malinois, we don't understand dogs or your snappy metaphors. but yet, when asked an honest question, you have to resort to insults and semi-intelligible allegories to ... what? avoid the point? be funny since you don't have a constructive answer when someone questions your thought process? or maybe, try and prove how esoteric you are? i'm not sure, because all you really said was, well, nothing. and you're supposed to be the one with greater understanding?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes, pretty much.

Not sure what owning a different breed has to do with anything, there certainly are dog aggro Mals.

If there is hypocrisy here, I do not see it. Maybe that is part of your lack of understanding. Why would you NOT ridicule a dog that cannot deal with a puppy ???

I think that the bar needs to be raised across the board. Tolerating a dog that cannot deal with other dogs bracing up on it is one thing, but not beig able to deal with a puppy is another.

One puncture for moving should be an abomination. Apparently you do not understand this. This would be a fear reaction. In dogs there are various reactions to fear. There is fear forward, passive, and flight.

The fact that a puppy moved and got a puncture, not a warning, as I have seen many many leave me alones, and they do not cause punctures in a normal dog, indicates that the threshold for fear is very low, or what most of us call a nerve bag.

Maybe that helps


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Ok, I tried not to, but I just have to ask. Just what does the phrase _"sex-trained-for-humans" dog, _ mean? It may just be me but the mental images are, well, uh, Well! They are strange. Further clarification would be a relief, please.

As for the puppy aggression thing, sounds like older dog is saying "Go away kid, Ya bother me" but I wasn't there to see it! Maybe older dog is thinking about that "sex with humans" thing?


----------



## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

I just believe that aggression towards puppies is a severe character flaw that I would not tolerate or propagate.


I find myself agreeing with Jeff, albiet a little more diplomatically.


----------



## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Ditto here.

Any male or female who attacks puppies is not for me regardless of the breed.

I do have a friend who had a female (good enough working dog) that hated puppies. The bitch supposedly had a litter in Germany before she bought her, but never conceived in any of the breedings that she tried here in the states. I never saw her attack but heard about it.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

> As for the puppy aggression thing, sounds like older dog is saying "Go away kid, Ya bother me" but I wasn't there to see it!


That was the two situations I had. The dog just had freakishly good aim. I don't worry about aggression that I call "growl-snap" when it is deserved and a fair warning. 

Anything beyond that is a red flag. Dog-vs-dog aggression (DA) isn't necessarily a fear issue. It can be trained and managed, but I do not believe it can be "cured." 

Not talking about puppy-killing, just the warning growl-snap. My point was that it is so easy for even a "neutral" dog to say "hey, back off" and for a pup to get hurt. It doesn't take full-on aggression for an accident to happen.

Supervision and separation are so crucial. It doesn't take a bad dog, and aggressive dog, a fearful dog, "he's great, except" dog for someone or something to get hurt. A hyper, friendly dog can be "dangerous" and cause injuries from it's behaviors of sheer enthusiasm.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Dog-vs-dog aggression (DA) isn't necessarily a fear issue

REALLY ?? REALLY ???

Please do tell, what it is then. Be specific.

Quote: I find myself agreeing with Jeff, albiet a little more diplomatically.

In Gods name WHY ???? people do not listen unless you are standing over them with a 2x4


----------



## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Dog-vs-dog aggression (DA) isn't necessarily a fear issue
> 
> REALLY ?? REALLY ???
> 
> Please do tell, what it is then. Be specific.



I am curious too, when is DA not a fear issue?


Jeff, how do you type such fast responses while holding a 2x4?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Knock them out first Michele. Key to everything is to immobilize first.


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

To bring this back to the original topic,


> We have a dog (about 8months old) who was sitting out on the deck next to a 5 month old intact rotty puppy, and withing a split second he got up and nailed the rotty puppy...causing one puncture... but really out of nowhere.....


Your question was about reactive aggression. What was the 8 month old reacting to here? :|


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The fact that a puppy moved and got a puncture, not a warning, as I have seen many many leave me alones, and they do not cause punctures in a normal dog, indicates that the threshold for fear is very low, or what most of us call a nerve bag.
> 
> Maybe that helps



well, one puncture doesn't necessarily equate to a serious bite to me, as two teeth didn't meet, to leave more than one hole. a puncture where? a puncture on a thin, fragile ear would be different, and much easier to do than on, say, a shoulder. hell, maybe you're right, and the dog is a nervous wreck that has to jump on anything that moves near it - could be the case, as it seems that some of the furry dogs do tend to be "nervier" (as you call it) than i'm used to dealing with. however, i don't think that without knowing the dog you can say he was afraid vs just not wanting the puppy near him. i guess without my knowing the dog i can't say that he's not a "nerve bag" that is afraid of puppies either...



Butch Cappel said:


> As for the puppy aggression thing, sounds like older dog is saying "Go away kid, Ya bother me" but I wasn't there to see it!


well, at least i'm not the only one that thinks there may be an alternative scenario...


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Another way said, "Screw up is up." Now it is up to you...


----------



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Anne stated: 

" That was the two situations I had. The dog just had freakishly good aim. I don't worry about aggression that I call "growl-snap" when it is deserved and a fair warning. "

I'm confused . Are these the 2 situations where first it was a "growl-snap" that sent the dog to the ER and then the next 1 a year later where the dog had it's face removed ? 

Are you saying both incidents are "growl-snap" incidents and they were fair warnings . Same dog on both incidents right ?


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jim Nash said:


> Anne stated:
> 
> "That was the two situations I had. The dog just had freakishly good aim. I don't worry about aggression that I call "growl-snap" when it is deserved and a fair warning. "
> 
> ...


The adult dog was the same. Two different puppies. Each puppy was in the 8-12 week old range. Both puppies were chewing on him or harassing him at the time. 

Each incident the dog tolerated the puppy for quite some time, displayed "go away" body language, puppy didn't go away, the dog growled, the puppy didn't go away, the dog snapped once, the puppy went away. Fair on both sides from a doggie point of view. Just a coincidence that contact was made. 

"face removed" is definitely an cacophemism.  It was a nip and one tooth happened to catch her at the gumline and tear back her gum. There was also a scrape on her chin.

My point is that a minor aggressive display can cause damage, so extreme caution is warranted even for a dog that displays neutral to friendly body language.


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

How long would "normal" i.e. non-reactive dogs tolerate a puppy's antics? How old of a puppy - weeks, months? I think most dogs would tell the pup to go away at some point, and to be honest I've never met ANY that would tolerate pups indefinitely...

And, if all DA is fear based, how would you explain the obnoxious behavior of running up face to face making eye contact, or running up face to face while holding a toy and growling - all to make the other dog react, and provoke a fight. I know a bulldog like this. It doesn't look fear based to me?


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Anna Kasho said:


> How long would "normal" i.e. non-reactive dogs tolerate a puppy's antics? How old of a puppy - weeks, months? I think most dogs would tell the pup to go away at some point, and to be honest I've never met ANY that would tolerate pups indefinitely...
> 
> And, if all DA is fear based, how would you explain the obnoxious behavior of running up face to face making eye contact, or running up face to face while holding a toy and growling - all to make the other dog react, and provoke a fight. I know a bulldog like this. It doesn't look fear based to me?



I've worked with several that instigate fights just like that. No fear involved. I'm not saying there isn't fear-based DA - I've seen plenty of that as well!


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Ok, Ok so I hate it when all these threads never EVER stay any where close to the topic so let me open by saying on topic; It aint fear based when my Chinese Pug chases my Great Dane out of the house for chewing her rawhide, but it sure is DA!!

Now that was on topic, sooo I stil haven't got any answer on this 
"sex-trained-for-humans" Dogs, I asked about earlier? 
Does the dog have to learn to smoke for this to work?
Just trying to get a grasp here!


----------



## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

It is a reference to this thread

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f8/one-you-trained-these-dogs-10729/


----------



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Some pits will play with a litter of pups one day then the next day try to kill every single one of them it could be things like other dogs around and enviromental etc but to think nerves dont play an issue in this would be stupid .Alot of pits are timid and nervy to start with especially females.

My oldest dog is a pit and is 15 she is great with pups and has helped me raise and get new pups use to there new enviroment i trust her completely as she has never hurt one or even tryed to she is in my opinion a rare pit,she is still nervy or over excited around people but just doesnt try to kill things that are no threat to her.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Just a coincidence that contact was made.

I doubt that. 

Quote: 
My point is that a minor aggressive display can cause damage, so extreme caution is warranted even for a dog that displays neutral to friendly body language.

Flip flop.

Quote : . I know a bulldog like this. It doesn't look fear based to me?

Dominant with the modifier insecure. Fear based. HAS to provoke. How hard can this be when we (hopefully) understand fear forward ??

I have had this discussion with people that understand fear forward, yet cannot grasp that defense is fear based. The ego cannot let the word fear be used.

Quote: It aint fear based when my Chinese Pug chases my Great Dane out of the house for chewing her rawhide, but it sure is DA!!

Resource guarding. Something completely different. Open the gate and let the dane keep going.


----------



## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

And you don't think there is a fear that another dog or person is going to take the valuable item? It's still a "fluff up" and act bigger display. Still fear based IMO.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Sorry about the "sex-trained" analogy, it was in poor taste, but meant to illustrate the idiocy behind the decisions "experts" make that deem whether or not a dog is adoptable. Puppy aggression won't be fixed with adoption, just too dangerous for any unsuspecting owner or passerby to contend with suddenly and inexplicably. There's far better dogs deserving of a second chance.

In the case of the 8 month old, I would presume it's reaction was merely a prey-reflex, for which it can be taught better control of. My Tiekerhook dog many times had lunged at somebody passing by on the training field who was unconsciously swinging a leash or some odd way of triggering his prey response without actually intending to. The handler needs to be very aware, and prepared to respond swiftly in these instances. With correction and maturity, the dog just learns to think before reacting. He still goes from zero to sixty practically instantly, and right back down on command. But this very same dog is completely safe around puppies.


----------



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Anne stated;

" That was the two situations I had. The dog just had freakishly good aim. I don't worry about aggression that I call "growl-snap" when it is deserved and a fair warning. "


It doesn't sound fair to me . The dog injured 2 puppies . Most dogs I've dealt with have good aim . If they want to just snap and not make contact they can do that 99% of the time . If they mean to bite you they will 99% of the time . It sounds like your dog was escalating in this behavior also since the injuries were getting worse . 


Anne stated;

" Each incident the dog tolerated the puppy for quite some time, displayed "go away" body language, puppy didn't go away, the dog growled, the puppy didn't go away, the dog snapped once, the puppy went away. Fair on both sides from a doggie point of view. Just a coincidence that contact was made. "


Once again from my experiance that wasn't a coincidence . Sounds like the dog meant to bite and was successful both times . That or it actually has rotten aim and meant to miss both times . 



Anne stated;

" "face removed" is definitely an cacophemism. It was a nip and one tooth happened to catch her at the gumline and tear back her gum. There was also a scrape on her chin. "


Still doesn't sound like the proper reaction to have towards a puppy . I do agree with your advice to the OP on making sure the dog is kept away from puppies in the future . 

Cacophemism!? I had to look that word up and it wasn't in my dictionary . Had to Google it . I hate it when smart (intelligent) people use big obscure words when smaller more well known words would work better for simple folks like myself  .


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Never an end to surprises people can come up with! Thanks Becky and Deryl no problem on the reference, just had me really curious. I would have probably guessed the answer, oh about twenty years after I am dead and gone!!
WOW!!! Wonder what brand they taught them to smoke?


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Why do people always seek the fault in the older dog? Humans tend to think "big dog not attack little dog" - "not fair".

Some pups should never have been allowed to live. They were nurtured because they didn't have the "will to live" or whatever and begosh can hey cause havoc in the canine world!!

I had an extremely neutral Briard who took on our 8-week old Fila Brasileiro as if it were his "one and only" and was always friendly with other pups bar 2??

To the case in hand - what did the five, repeat five month old pup make for grimaces - these didn't reach the keyboard as far as I know.

Jeff, I don't accept aggressivenes towards pups from older dogs but I know it exists - just think of the c--p they are producing - one can control the older dog but it happens. 

Humans bring their pups into danger very often. They choose the weakest, shyest pup out that they can handle and think it can face the world.


----------



## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Just a tolerance point for me. We understand dog aggression, it's not that infrequent at all, but even _most of those dogs _would never find it necessary to attack puppies. I've not had one, and I wouldn't stand it for a heartbeat. We can tolerate dog aggression, many times handler aggression is justified, but there's never a good cause to stand for puppy aggression that I can imagine. Sure, there's examples in nature, like where rival lions will kill the cubs of other lions. But our dogs aren't lions, any more than they are wolves, or should ever strive to be.
> 
> I understand that rescues, for example, won't accept a dog that was merely "intended" for schutzhund sport, whether it was actually trained or not. Yet they'll admit a "sex-trained-for-humans" dog, which is likely more trouble than they can possibly imagine. Why remove the chance for a _redeemable dog_ to have a good life, by filling a shelter vacancy with the likes of that?
> 
> ...


What do you mean shelters won't take dogs intended for Schutzhund? and WTF is a "sex trained for humans"?


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

The shelters refused this dog, on the basis that it was purchased for use in schutzhund training. So, he was shipped back to me at the buyer's expense in hopes that I could find a home for him. He's actually not that bad, his obedience is curt and enthusiastic, and he's starting to get along fine in my home. He just hasn't had the opportunity to cohabitate with other dogs that weren't trying to kick his ass since he was a puppy. He doesn't instigate at all, but initially he perceived any interaction from another dog as a threat, and he's absolutely not submissive to any dog.

The point was, that if shelters feel that a dog being trained for schutzhund is incapable of (or even needs) rehabilitation just because of what they're trained for, but this dog somehow doesn't pose worse problems, then they have their heads up their you know what.


----------



## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Thank you for the info, I have just had a dissappointment with regards to my existing dog probably not being suited to the sport, I am on the lookout for one that definately will be, a rescue is not out of the question, in fact I did not know these dogs were even available, however, I have a dominant male (not aggressive but challenging) and 2 very young children; that seen to belong to my current dog  What is the likelihood I will find a GSD, czech, good strong high drive that will suit my family as a rescue??


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Kat LaPlante said:


> Thank you for the info, I have just had a dissappointment with regards to my existing dog probably not being suited to the sport, I am on the lookout for one that definately will be, a rescue is not out of the question, in fact I did not know these dogs were even available, however, I have a dominant male (not aggressive but challenging) and 2 very young children; that seen to belong to my current dog  What is the likelihood I will find a GSD, czech, good strong high drive that will suit my family as a rescue??


If you want something that specific why now just buy from proven lines? Why Czech?


----------



## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Everyone has a different opinion, I have been swayed by others belief in the czech lines P-S in particular. All I know for sure is that I want a dog form proven wirking lines, GSD.


----------

