# dog bites & lawsuits



## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

I see a lot of comments where people declare if your dog bites someone that it is a sure thing u will be sued and lose.I am sure that can occur in Texas but it is not a slam dunk!Texas juries and Texas laws don't allways favor the people that sue.there are plenty of crooks being shot by individuals and they are protected by our gun laws.My question is,,, Do the laws in some of these states completely favor the person that was bit by a dog if that person was a crook, trespasser,etc.Are they allways successfull if they sue?I beleive you have the right to protect with a gun and to protect with a dog!


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

are you asking a question or making a statement?:-k


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Your question is addressing two issues

Civil law, which you get sued for damages by the plaintiff

versus

Criminal law where you are prosecuted and liable to penalties such as destruction of the dog, fines, community service, imprisonment and so forth.

In PPD, an amateur just trains a dog to bite. 

Professionals take the trouble to be well versed in law, police procedure and interview, make the effort to put canine good citizen on the animals, and train the handler to manage public perception. At the end of the day, it is about stacking perception in your favour after a live bite. Police and juries often have a sense of justice provided you operate within the law. Not to mention keeping the dog who just saved your as* from being destroyed. 

It would be good to familiarise yourself with the law in relation to live bites in a public area versus private property, self defense law, provocation, guard dog acts, dangerous dog acts and anything else relevant.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

James,

If a dangerous dog law applies only to dogs that "act without provocation" and the dog acts on the handler's command, what then IYO?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

And just to add to the confusion does anyone know of any type of insurance incase your dog does bite someone? My understanding is if your dog is trained in bite work your insurance does not cover him as if he was a pet. Can anyone add to this?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Win or lose if your dog bites someone chances are it's going to cost ya plenty.
Another reason I keep a lid on the fact that my dog is bite trained. Hell my club could get dragged into a law suite. 
My guess is even a ppd dog's trainers could get dragged into things if the lawyers are looking for money.
If a bar can be held liable for serving someone to much alcohol why not someone who trains dogs to bite???


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> And just to add to the confusion does anyone know of any type of insurance incase your dog does bite someone? My understanding is if your dog is trained in bite work your insurance does not cover him as if he was a pet. Can anyone add to this?


I have State Farm - it's fine as long as your dog has not bitten ... (yet?) However, they're not going to cover anything related to the a dog incident.


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm asking a question AND making a statement!Is it cut and dried in some states(other than Texas) that you will lose a lawsuit when your dog bites a crook,thief,etc on your property?.I have read some recent posts and it appears that dog owners get sued and lose in every instance.My statement is" I think this is wrong and a person should be able to protect using what ever means available".Homeowners and bussiness owners in the Houston area are shooting crooks on almost a daily basis.DEAD! No charges,no liability.a dog , to me is just another weapon in the home defense arsenal.You should not be liable if the dog acted in defense on your property.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Jim you nailed it, that's why if some prick decides to invade my space or home, I'll shoot him dead. The dog is just there to give me time to grab my gun. Dead people can't sue and if I feared for my life, I can shoot.


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

amen, right on,,,, My dobe is a deterrent, and a distraction to a bad guy,untill I do what I got to do!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> Dead people can't sue and if I feared for my life, I can shoot.


You're right, dead people can't sue. However, their families can!


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## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

what would the legal theory be if someone trespasses, gets attacked by your dog and then sues?

why would the owner be found liable ?/ under what legal theory?

i have a black lab that bites for some reason. A young girl opened my front gate (with the dogs right in front of her!) and the dog bit her knee. My dog was controlled - SHE broke the control - i never heard a thing. Never paid a dime. Animal control took a report but my dog was utd on rabies so no problem there.

Another time my lab was outside the fence (long story) and nipped at a repairman - i paid the guy $100.00 for the injury - the dog was NOT in my control so i was liable. 

Now, my raging Neo acts like she's gonna rip your head off but call her bluff???????? - she runs off tail between legs. LOL


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

This question(s) are usually answered without any case law or even newspaper articles to back it up. "You'll lose your house or they will sue you". I say BS, prove it! If some F**k force entry into my house and my dog bites his ass I'm going to jail/court? I find it hard to believe. What's the point of having such a dog then? Wouldn't it be all over the news. I rember recently I seen such an incident on the national news, were a young dog help fend of some crack head that broke into their home. They didn't loose the dog or any other BS that' splated all over these dog forums.:roll:


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> This question(s) are usually answered without any case law or even newspaper articles to back it up. "You'll lose your house or they will sue you". I say BS, prove it! If some F**k force entry into my house and my dog bites his ass I'm going to jail/court? I find it hard to believe. What's the point of having such a dog then? Wouldn't it be all over the news. I rember recently I seen such an incident on the national news, were a young dog help fend of some crack head that broke into their home. They didn't loose the dog or any other BS that' splated all over these dog forums.:roll:


in the event the crack head decides to sue its still going to cost you time greaf and money to defenf your self.
I'm with ya on your way of thinking. But that's how it is.
As I mentioned on another thread a wile back my Schutzhund III Rottweiler bit a drunk behaving badly I'm not going through the hole story but lets just say we both lucked out the city forgave my dog and the drunk disappeared. I talked to a attorney and he was tossing figures in the 50 to 100 K range my insurance company or me could be liable for.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> in the event the crack head decides to sue its still going to cost you time greaf and money to defenf your self.
> I'm with ya on your way of thinking. But that's how it is.
> As I mentioned on another thread a wile back my Schutzhund III Rottweiler bit a drunk behaving badly I'm not going through the hole story but lets just say we both lucked out the city forgave my dog and the drunk disappeared. I talked to a attorney and he was tossing figures in the 50 to 100 K range my insurance company or me could be liable for.


Without any mention of circumstances your post is meaningless and just spreads disinformation.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Then why not pose the question to the cops how often they are sued and how much it costs them/departments to defend legitimate bites during apprehensions.
I gave you my story my dog was forgiven by the city of Minneapolis at a dogie cort. The drunk could have gone after my insurance company or me. My lawyer said he with out a doubt had a case against me. 
Even if I win it costs me or my insurance company money end I bet I lose my insurance coverage if I want to keep the dog.


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

This is what I am trying to find out. What state is this? Do your juries go for this.For comparison, what are your gun laws like. Do u have the right to carry.I think a crackhead that broke in to a hse here would not find a sympathetic jury if he could get the case to trial.Under Texas laws u could shoot him.We even had a ruling for a complaint on the # of times a crook was shot.The Harris count DA(Houston,Texas) said "If it is all right to shoot him dead,,it is allright to shoot him dead,dead, dead!So Mike I guess you are telling me your state bends left and protects the crook.How did that happen?


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

Ok,, You answered my question. Minnesota! Way,way left. we basically live in 2 different countries then.Minnesota and Texas,,,better known as states.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Then why not pose the question to the cops how often they are sued and how much it costs them/departments to defend legitimate bites during apprehensions.
> I gave you my story my dog was forgiven by the city of Minneapolis at a dogie cort. The drunk could have gone after my insurance company or me. My lawyer said he with out a doubt had a case against me.
> Even if I win it costs me or my insurance company money end I bet I lose my insurance coverage if I want to keep the dog.


Because that's a completely different situation!
Just because your dog was forgiven doesn't imply you were not at fault in some way.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

My K9 partners have bitten around 100 badguys . I've been IA'd twice about dog bites and been cleared. No lawsuits yet (cross fingers) . 
At least around St Paul and Minneapolis the legal system has been siding with the residents when they've had to protect their homes as they should. I have yet however seen an cases where a dog was used .

From my experiance NOONE should ever try to guess what a jury (or judge for that matter) is going to do . You might as well flip a coin . They are all made up of different people . I use to be a Sheriff's Deputy in the courts . I've heard juries deliberating and seen some unbelievable descisions . 1 juror with a strong personality can persuade the rest of them .


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

If the crack head breaks into my house I confront him no words are exchanged no threats made if he dives for the window to flee and I fill his ass with OO buck I can be brought up on charge for shooting a defenseless man.
However if he confronts me and wishes to do me bodily harm and I shoot him in the face no problems for me
We do have a conceal and carry here in Minnesota.
A dog bite I think would depend on the circumstances only under defencive conditions like the above gun scenario. 
I'm out of this one


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

That is well explained. We had a double shooting by a homeowner a year ago. It was all over the national news. Joe Horne in Passadena ,Texas.His neighbors house was being burglarized in broad daylight.he confronted the burgulars as they were leaving.They ran, he killed both with a shotgun blast in the back.Lots of protests, and counter protests but no charges filed.Legal under state laws.So when a citizen shoots a crook now we say"he Joe Horned him". the possibility of lawsuits and charges on dog bites will really vary from state to state.Just like gun laws.Wonder what Al Franken would say about all this?hehe


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

From a law enforcement perspective, it's 50/50 on whether or not a law suit will be filed against us for a bite. Usually it's a use of force issue. While the probability of being sued, even in a law enforcement capacity, is high, it's highly unlikely they will prevail.

DFrost


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

jim kirkendall said:


> Wonder what Al Franken would say about all this?hehe


:lol:


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

jim kirkendall said:


> the possibility of lawsuits and charges on dog bites will really vary from state to state.Just like gun laws.Wonder what Al Franken would say about all this?hehe


You summed it up nicely . 

First Jessie now Al . Yikes.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

jim kirkendall said:


> Ok,, You answered my question. Minnesota! Way,way left. we basically live in 2 different countries then.Minnesota and Texas,,,better known as states.


I'm fairly certain if a bad guy was breaking and entering a home with trained dogs in Idaho the cops would want to bring popcorn and watch the show.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I'm fairly certain if a bad guy was breaking and entering a home with trained dogs in Idaho the cops would want to bring popcorn and watch the show.


 
Thats great!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

For what its worth

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/insurance.htm

I certainly may have exaggerated regarding the bad guy getting your house; I was just trying to make a point. We all need to move to Texas. 
Let me get this straight, In Texas you let the dog hold the guy while you get your gun? Then you walk up and shoot the bad guy. Do you give your dog a correction if he releases when you fire the rounds off? I mean do you make it into a training scenario? And if you have mace in the house do you use it before you shoot the bad guy or after… just for the fun of it? And do you correct your dog if he releases when you spray the mace? Do any of you train your dog using any form of mace or OC? And finally when do you use the stun gun. I’m thinking after it’s all done and you out your dog just to make sure the bad guy isn’t faking it.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

http://www.chaseagency.com/AnimalLiability.asp?gclid=CKicrKzQ05kCFZpM5QodrDWPVQ


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_HomeInsurance.php


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Missouri has clear cut CC laws and the right to act with deadly force in protecting your home. 
I'm not 100% sure on the laws concerning a dog's "right" to protect so I'd just rather shoot someone then go through the mess of clearing my dog from a law suit and all the insurance bs........Hypothetically speaking that is! 8-[ 8-[ :-$


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

To date, we have provided no less than 3 dogs that have recieved live bites from tresspassers in sentry type situations...

None of them have been sued.

A lot of this IMO depends upon the lawyers contacted, the general attitude of the police, and the general political views on such in a given region....as this sets the mind set of the criminal and greatly influences their perceived rights. That said, any good currupt lawyer could certainly make a case even if the dog did as it should do. That's what insurance is for...but you will have to have an umbrella policy to cover a PP dog.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lee Robinson said:


> ... 3 dogs that have recieved live bites from tresspassers in sentry type situations...


Three dogs were bitten by trespassers?


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

LOL...ooops..

That should say 3 dogs that have live bites on tresspassers. ROTFLO!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I guess I need to get out of the LE business. With us it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of when you get sued. The plaintiff usually doesn't prevail, but you still have to go through the motions.

DFrost


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