# Passing the BH with a Civil Dog



## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Any tips on how you can pass the BH with a civil dog?

I saw this at a site I was browsing:



> 12 people crowding around the dog in a tight circle and staring silently...


My dog can normally take crowds of people and so on, but this is probably too much for him. :| He sets off at direct confrontation. He's fine doing obedience under distraction, around other dogs. I'm hoping there's no exercise that requires him to be petted by a stranger out of sight of the handler?

I'm not looking to get high points in Schutzhund but I do want him to get a few titles under his belt before we move on.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

:lol: :lol:


> I'm hoping there's no exercise that requires him to be petted by a stranger out of sight of the handler?


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Uh oh.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Have you ever seen a BH being performed? It's alot easier than walking thru PetSmart, generally when the dog comes near the person, the person stands still looking away ignoring the dog, and they're not tight like a new york crowd so you're not squeezing between people with your dog. The biggest thing working against you is that if your dog sees a grass field with people and goes into bitework mode, it'll be harder to get your dog under control than casually walking city streets. I'd just get lots of practice in and get the dog to focus on you on a training field with a few people and keep increasing the number of people if it's still a problem. Dogs should all have a "knock it off everythings OK" command.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Or maybe I'm thinking of the actual SchH titles and not the BH... hmm.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

If I'm there and in direct control of him he's okay. He's fine as long as nobody is directly staring and being "personal" with him. The thing that bothers me is I've heard people say that the traffic part of the exercises vary with each judge. I suppose I can just choose not to do it if the exercise is the type that would set him off. He's only a year old and he's been calming down a lot, so I suppose give or take a couple of years he can do it.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

It isn't going to hurt anything to give it a shot. Like you said, you can always stop if you don't feel comfortable. If he fails, you can always try again later, and then you should know what to expect and prepare him for.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lyn, I'm kind of with you though Zoso is not confrontational. I think before I want to either attempt to trial him for his BH, I'd prefer to at least watch a trial. Even though our club's next trial is next month and if I really pushed him, he'd probably be okay, I'd like to visually see one on home turf before we try it. Plus no hurry at their age either.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Being civil has nothing to do with the training a BH requires IF the dog is properly trained. Just because it may be civil, if that's truly what you're seeing, is completely different from being out of control.

Now if the dog has weak nerves (I have no idea) that's a whole new thing. JMHO!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob, if you watch one trial, does that give a good solid feeling for how the BH trial goes, or is it really dependent on the judge(s)?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The obedience is always the same thing. It's just like the OB in SchHI-II-III except it's done once on lead and once off lead. I-II-III the OB is just off lead.
The traffic portion is up to the Judge and what's avaliable. 
The dog has to walk within 10 or so ft and ignore another dog tied out by itself. A bycycle is ridden past the dog as is a car door being opened in the dogs path. 
I've seen a video of judges using bulldozers driving by the dog. I've seen a portion of the traffic portion done at a filling station. 
The bottom line is a dog with sound temperment (and training) is going to breeze through it. It's a simple pass or fail. No score. 
A serious bada$$ should have no trouble if the handler does a good job of training.
An unsound dog is another story.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I should clarify that the obedience is the same in the heeling pattern with a moving sit and down. No moving stand, sendout, retrieve.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I just reread about the dog being one yr old. They have to be 15 months (I think) to do the BH.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I just reread about the dog being one yr old. They have to be 15 months (I think) to do the BH.


I think I read that it was twelve months, but I'm not certain.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Yeah. I won't BH him for a long time yet, actually...probably not until he's two or two and a half.

His heelwork is superb, as is his overall soundness. It's only direct confrontation with people (eye contact, forward motion...I was particularly concerned about that 12 people crowding and staring that the site mentioned) that he'll have problems with, if the judge decides to do any of those things. He's okay once he's corrected, but of course I don't want anyone bitten, and it only takes once.

Sounds like everything should be fine in general.

Thanks for the help.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My rule book is July 04. Could very well have changed since then.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Newbie question!  We did something at practice this morning for all the dogs planning on trialing for their BH where the dog is next to the handler in a sit about a dozen people in a circle facing the dog walked in towards the dog in a close circle then backed away. This was repeated 2-3 times and then done with a down. Then the dog was called out of the circle after the handler had stepped away. Though I'm not trying to trial Zoso probably until the spring, we did it anyways and he was fine (other than wondering why there were a lot of people right next to him not giving pets). Is this also part of the test or just something to try as I hadn't seen it before. Was meaning to ask, but I had to leave early as the in-laws were coming into town!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Newbie question!  We did something at practice this morning for all the dogs planning on trialing for their BH where the dog is next to the handler in a sit about a dozen people in a circle facing the dog walked in towards the dog in a close circle then backed away. This was repeated 2-3 times and then done with a down. Then the dog was called out of the circle after the handler had stepped away. Though I'm not trying to trial Zoso probably until the spring, we did it anyways and he was fine (other than wondering why there were a lot of people right next to him not giving pets). Is this also part of the test or just something to try as I hadn't seen it before. Was meaning to ask, but I had to leave early as the in-laws were coming into town!


Yes, I have read that this is part of some judges' tests.

Here are two nicely detailed descriptions of the BH test which our club has been using for reference. (I hope the SchH-knowledgeable folks here will speak up if these descriptions are faulty! :lol: )

http://www.bigskyschutzhund.bizland.com/bhbook.htm

http://www.geocities.com/colosseum/loge/4844/BH.html

Here is a quote from the first one:

QUOTE: I have never gotten around to adding some of the many different things I've seen judges do. Dropping metal food pans on concrete behind the dog, 12 people crowding around the dog in a tight circle and staring silently... END QUOTE


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## Michele Moore (Mar 27, 2006)

I have seen a few judges do the circling and crowding thing. Some judges just have a group stand around the dog, some have them crowd in really close. My male likes people, but is not a big fan of the crowding. I just practiced it as an obedience exercise where he has to look at me in front position. If he passes his BH next month, I'll let you know if it worked or not.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Maren that was the same at one of the trials I was at. I have seen it done other ways also. It's really up to the judge. I also agree with Bob. A stable dog will not have a problem. If the dog is one year old then train for the worst case. If he is not stable enough through the training don't put him in there and have people think he is and get them bitten.
JMO


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If you have access to a reasonably large town, take lots of walks with your dog. 
The BH is nothing more then exposure to everyday events and situations.
Train outside a Walmart, Petsmart, etc. 
EXPOSURE, EXPOSURE, EXPOSURE!!! 
I agree 100% with Jerry. If the dog isn't stable enough to do this training, don't put others in harms way!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Oh, you know me having him wait outside the QuikTrip by I-70 and highway 63! 8) No, he should be fine. Was in Lowe's the other day with him on a down stay as the fork lift rolled by beeping loudly as I was getting some chain cut. No problem. We did a 2K "dog jog" fun walk yesterday at the vet school followed by a 5K breast cancer awareness "roll walk" (meaning you were supposed to be on wheels somehow, like a stroller, bike, scooter, rollerblades, etc). He was by far about the best behaved dog out there at the dog jog. Some people even had Great Danes on harnesses!  Not a good idea...do people not understand that harnesses are for...ermm...pulling? Didn't mind the clown at the roll walk either, though really, how many of us can admit we have fully de-sensitized our dog to a clown as a puppy? He's gotten a bit sharper and more watchful as he matures, but he'll always be a great people dog.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sounds to me like Zoso is ready for his BH! :wink:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Nah, I'll just be a good little gopher for the first trial instead of getting all nervous about it having to show my dog. I was the same way with martial arts and the first belt testing. I wanted to watch it before I actually had to do it! I'm just overanalytical like that.


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