# to all of you raw feeders in here



## milder batmusen

do you only feed meet and bones 

or do you feed veggies or rice

because some say that rice is not good for dogs because they dont need carbohydrats:-k:-k


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## Connie Sutherland

milder batmusen said:


> do you only feed meet and bones
> 
> or do you feed veggies or rice
> 
> because some say that rice is not good for dogs because they dont need carbohydrats:-k:-k


Milder, would you like some reading material on feeding raw?

I feed everything that "comes in" a dead small prey animal, including the RMBs, organs, and digestive system contents (or as close as I can get). Feeding "clean" supermarket meat and bones is not sufficient. I also give long-chain Omega 3s in the form of fish oil, and vitamin E to protect the oil's PUFAs. (Modern slaughter animals are not rich in 3s as range-fed and wild animals were/are.)

But this has been covered here in exhaustive detail, and you're short-changing yourself if you rely on people re-typing many many words all over again.


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## xxxxxxxxKarina Scuckyte

I feed by prey model. I give ocean fish too, sometimes (very rarely) I get parts of wild animals from hunters. Well, my dogs like and eat apples themselves, they just look for them under the tree. But they are smart, they eat only beautiful ones, with no rott. And I have to pick apples from the tree, that are not so tasty, I don't find any fallen down


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## Connie Sutherland

That's great that you can get stuff from hunters. 

So many who say that they feed "prey model" are giving nothing but poultry quarters, as if that would be the "prey" that a canid would devour intact.

So while I believe that I actually do feed as close as I can get to "prey" -- I don't use that term. I look at so many web sites that purport to be "prey model" and see that the dog gets nothing but RMBs.


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## Carol Boche

Connie Sutherland said:


> I feed everything that "comes in" a dead small prey animal, including the RMBs, organs, and digestive system contents (or as close as I can get). Feeding "clean" supermarket meat and bones is not sufficient. I also give long-chain Omega 3s in the form of fish oil, and vitamin E to protect the oil's PUFAs. (Modern slaughter animals are not rich in 3s as range-fed and wild animals were/are.)


Ditto......
I also get carcasses around hunting time as well as the cuts of meat the hunters don't like/want. 

The resident feeder rabbit guy passed away, but his daughter has started up again so I am looking forward to that. They kill and gut them and I feed them fur and all. The dogs love that.


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## Connie Sutherland

Carol Boche said:


> They kill and gut them and I feed them fur and all. The dogs love that.


Do they actually eat the fur? Or leave it empty?



(Or make little prom jackets?)


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## xxxxxxxxKarina Scuckyte

Well, most meals are chicken necks or heads (about 30-40 percents of all ration) and beef meat with fat. Sometimes veal or pork. Beef stomach when I get it instead of meat. I give hearts, livers and kidneys (about 10 percent of all ration). One fish day about every 2 weeks.


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## milder batmusen

Connie Sutherland;136489[B said:


> ]Milder, would you like some reading material on feeding raw?
> [/B]
> I feed everything that "comes in" a dead small prey animal, including the RMBs, organs, and digestive system contents (or as close as I can get). Feeding "clean" supermarket meat and bones is not sufficient. I also give long-chain Omega 3s in the form of fish oil, and vitamin E to protect the oil's PUFAs. (Modern slaughter animals are not rich in 3s as range-fed and wild animals were/are.)
> 
> But this has been covered here in exhaustive detail, and you're short-changing yourself if you rely on people re-typing many many words all over again.


yes that would be nice thanks\\/

does not seem that any of you give your dogs rice


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## Carol Boche

The only time I give rice is if I have a dog that is not feeling well and off of feed.....I boil it so that it is overcooked and really mushy and then add boneless skinless chicken breast meat to it that has been boiled as well. 

Kind of like chicken soup when humans are sick.

Oh yeah Connie.....sometimes they eat it and sometimes they don't.....I can tell by the poop in the yard.....LOL 

No Prom jackets yet though.....


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## Connie Sutherland

milder batmusen said:


> does not seem that any of you give your dogs rice



However, like Carol, I take advantage of the binding qualities of mushy overcooked white rice for a dog with diarrhea.


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## Connie Sutherland

milder batmusen said:


> yes that would be nice thanks\\/



Done.


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## milder batmusen

Connie Sutherland said:


> Done.


thanks very much\\/=D>


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## milder batmusen

Carol Boche said:


> The only time I give rice is if I have a dog that is not feeling well and off of feed.....I boil it so that it is overcooked and really mushy and then add boneless skinless chicken breast meat to it that has been boiled as well.
> 
> Kind of like chicken soup when humans are sick.
> 
> Oh yeah Connie.....sometimes they eat it and sometimes they don't.....I can tell by the poop in the yard.....LOL
> 
> No Prom jackets yet though.....





Connie Sutherland said:


> However, like Carol, I take advantage of the binding qualities of mushy overcooked white rice for a dog with diarrhea.



thanks alot :mrgreen:


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## Meng Xiong

I feed whatever raw meat I can get my hands on that is cheap, or even better, free!

I don't feed any carbs, but my dogs do get occassional carrots sticks or fruits that have gotten bruised.


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## Connie Sutherland

Meng Xiong said:


> I feed whatever raw meat I can get my hands on that is cheap, or even better, free!


And bones and organs, right?


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## Rachel Schumacher

You guys are lucky. I am having a hard time feeding franken prey. Rarely I get some deer or rabbit heads. I don't feed any carbs but do add a small amount of veggies (due to lack of heads). The cats get no veggies and carbs of course.


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## Connie Sutherland

Rachel Schumacher said:


> ... I don't feed any carbs but do add a small amount of veggies (due to lack of heads). ....


So do I, unless I have green tripe.


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## Rachel Schumacher

Thanks Connie. Of course no veggies with yummy green tripe.


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## Meng Xiong

Connie Sutherland said:


> And bones and organs, right?


 

Oh yeah! My mother/father in-law like to butcher their own beef and pork so the dogs get lots of leftover stuff. :mrgreen:








http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/93/l_6f31a3c2888545beabfc216875c21b54.jpg


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## Debbie Skinner

milder batmusen said:


> do you only feed meet and bones
> 
> or do you feed veggies or rice
> 
> because some say that rice is not good for dogs because they dont need carbohydrats:-k:-k


We feed what many call "prey model". We feed meat, organ meats and tripe and bone. When I get small animals, I feed them whole such as squirrels, rabbits, baby emus and the dogs eat the entire animal and fur. Even my cats will eat a squirrel except for the skull and maybe a the back leg bones. 

I don't feed the dogs and cats veggies or rice...that's for me not my dogs! :-D


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## Connie Sutherland

Green tripe is largely veggies. 

In the ideal form!


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## Debbie Skinner

Connie Sutherland said:


> Green tripe is largely veggies.
> 
> In the ideal form!


I feed the tripe to the dogs.. But "veggies" in my diet are QUITE different than tripe veggies! :-D The cattle eat grass and hay mainly and the deer browsing. Not any bok choy, onions, peppers, eggplant or the such in their diet.


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## Carol Boche

Debbie Skinner said:


> Not any bok choy, onions, peppers, eggplant or the such in their diet.


I don't feed any of this either.....onions are toxic to dogs anyways and bok choy, peppers and eggplant are something I eat and don't share with the dogs....LOL

My dogs LOVE blueberries (great for dogs and frozen ones make great training treats) and bananas (which due to sugar content...they only get a minimal ammount).....I mix it with plain live cultured yogurt, fill kongs and freeze.....GREAT for keeping a dog busy for a while. 

Also, grapes, raisins and spinach (I know this was discussed but it may have been at LB) are not good for dogs either and macadamia nuts can cause death in a dog if I am not mistaken.


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## Connie Sutherland

Carol Boche said:


> I don't feed any of this either.....onions are toxic to dogs anyways and bok choy, peppers and eggplant are something I eat and don't share with the dogs....LOL ... My dogs LOVE blueberries (great for dogs and frozen ones make great training treats) and bananas (which due to sugar content...they only get a minimal ammount).....I mix it with plain live cultured yogurt, fill kongs and freeze.....GREAT for keeping a dog busy for a while. ... Also, grapes, raisins and spinach (I know this was discussed but it may have been at LB) are not good for dogs either and macadamia nuts can cause death in a dog if I am not mistaken.


Ditto to all this. If I have no green tripe I use such things as celery tops, young tender greens, summer-squash guts, etc. Tripe is best, but I don't always have it, and I replicate it as well as I can with live-culture unsweetened yogurt and greens.


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## Carol Boche

Connie Sutherland said:


> Ditto to all this. If I have no green tripe I use such things as celery tops, young tender greens, summer-squash guts, etc. Tripe is best, but I don't always have it, and I replicate it as well as I can with live-culture unsweetened yogurt and greens.



Guess I should say....don't forget CHOCOLATE is toxic to dogs too....which is great as there is MORE for ME!!! :mrgreen:


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## Connie Sutherland

Carol Boche said:


> Guess I should say....don't forget CHOCOLATE is toxic to dogs too....which is great as there is MORE for ME!!! :mrgreen:


Me too. :lol:

I do try to bring this up again every winter, because under-the-tree wrapped chocolates are famous for dog-poisonings. Dogs know exactly what's inside that pretty wrapping paper!


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## todd pavlus

What is so bad about spinach. I have notheard this before?


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## Carol Boche

I will try to find the link.....

Connie, do you remember that thread? He had made glop with spinach in it and then we found out what the issue was with it?


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## todd pavlus

I was just wondering since the mix I make is spinach based


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## todd pavlus

Anyone order from this site http://www.rawdietusa.com/. Looks like they have some decent prices


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## Connie Sutherland

Carol Boche said:


> I will try to find the link.....
> 
> Connie, do you remember that thread? He had made glop with spinach in it and then we found out what the issue was with it?


I don't recall a thread, but yes, spinach would not be a daily food. 

For humans too, spinach is a great food but is heavy in oxalic acid, which binds irreversibly to calcium and in excess can actually contribute to the development of oxalate crystals.

Actually oxalate toxicity would be extremely unlikely unless we eat or feed the leaves (not the stalks, which is what we normally eat) of rhubarb plants.

What I've concluded from everything I've read is that raw spinach and chard are good foods but maybe best kept to a rotation and not fed every day or every other day.

I do include spinach and chard, but pretty infrequently.... maybe once every week or two.

(I'm not a health professional, of course.)


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## Carol Boche

It was a LB thread and I can't ever use the search fuction and find ANYTHING....

IF I remember right, it was either Steve Lepic or Michael Wise that was making veggie mix and had just made some with spinach and he was concerened about feeding it after what was discussed. It was then that I stopped adding spinach to my veggie glop too. 

But, regardless, it is a veggie that is best fed minimally or not at all.


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## Sheldon Little

I find that a good mix of raw chicken breast, beef liver adn some live culture yogurt covers most of the dietary needs. But i also feed half the meals in " dry" food. Evo red meat and blue buffalo wilderness soaked in hot water for 15 minutes before feeding.


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## Connie Sutherland

Sheldon Little said:


> I find that a good mix of raw chicken breast, beef liver adn some live culture yogurt covers most of the dietary needs. But i also feed half the meals in " dry" food. Evo red meat and blue buffalo wilderness soaked in hot water for 15 minutes before feeding.


Sheldon, I personally don't recommend mixing kibble and raw, but that topic has been thoroughly covered here. 

More important is that chicken breast alone is very meat-heavy (in the meat-to-bone ratio). You are including bones, right?


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## Connie Sutherland

Carol Boche said:


> I stopped adding spinach to my veggie glop too.
> 
> But, regardless, it is a veggie that is best fed minimally or not at all.


Oh, agreed. Not as a daily food.

I do throw it in on occasion. I probably would not if I had crystal-forming dogs.


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## Sheldon Little

Connie Sutherland said:


> Sheldon, I personally don't recommend mixing kibble and raw, but that topic has been thoroughly covered here.
> 
> More important is that chicken breast alone is very meat-heavy (in the meat-to-bone ratio). You are including bones, right?


Yes, I include bone with it. Especially if I see the family packs of drum sticks for a good price I'll pick them up. Makes a great snack for the boys. I understand the kibble/raw mix deal and as long as its a high quality food I haven't run into any problems. I know some of the more purest raw feeders think it's a horrible idea but I have seen only positive results. The only time stomachs (sometimes) get upset is if I mix in the same meal. I find it easier to keep weight the same using this feeding style.


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## Connie Sutherland

Sheldon Little said:


> ... Especially if I see the family packs of drum sticks for a good price I'll pick them up.


Oh, I getcha. I thought you meant all breast meat.


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## Sheldon Little

Ah no, mainly buy the split chicken breast with the rib cage and all that. It's usually the best price per pound. Also what do you/anyone reading this know about the various different nutritional additives for putting on raw meals? I'll have to look them up again but does anyone here use something like that?


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## Connie Sutherland

Sheldon Little said:


> Ah no, mainly buy the split chicken breast with the rib cage and all that. It's usually the best price per pound. Also what do you/anyone reading this know about the various different nutritional additives for putting on raw meals? I'll have to look them up again but does anyone here use something like that?


Long-chain Omega 3s in the form of marine products (fish oil) plus the vitamin E to protect the oil's PUFAs during body processing.


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## Rachel Schumacher

I am very careful with liver. The dogs and cats get their ratio but I always measure it due to vitamin A that could be toxic if overdosed.


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## Debbie Skinner

Rachel Schumacher said:


> I am very careful with liver. The dogs and cats get their ratio but I always measure it due to vitamin A that could be toxic if overdosed.


After a bitch has whelped she will seem to crave liver. Not sure why..iron content? Also, when my puppies were sick, the first think they wanted to eat was liver then on day two they craved heart. Raw heart and liver that is. I don't know if there was anything to that. I offered them anything and everything to get them to eat.


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## Anna Kasho

Debbie Skinner said:


> After a bitch has whelped she will seem to crave liver. Not sure why..iron content? Also, when my puppies were sick, the first think they wanted to eat was liver then on day two they craved heart. Raw heart and liver that is. I don't know if there was anything to that. I offered them anything and everything to get them to eat.


You might be on to something. When I had a rescued cat, sick and extremely skinny, liver seemed to be easiest for her to digest for the most nutrition or energy. Nothing scientific, only seeing behavior changes before/after meals (very small meals multiple times/day) and weighing her daily. I noticed she didn't get as sluggish after liver as other things, and she picked it out of the dish first. I fed her a lot of beef liver the first week... fwiw.


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## Debbie Skinner

Anna Kasho said:


> You might be on to something. When I had a rescued cat, sick and extremely skinny, liver seemed to be easiest for her to digest for the most nutrition or energy. Nothing scientific, only seeing behavior changes before/after meals (very small meals multiple times/day) and weighing her daily. I noticed she didn't get as sluggish after liver as other things, and she picked it out of the dish first. I fed her a lot of beef liver the first week... fwiw.



My cats love liver too especially when nursing kittens. I've found rundown dogs like liver and really go for the green tripe too. The dog I got back "Drako" really chowed down on tripe and loved liver and heart. Also, dogs that haven't been exposed to meaty bones once they figure out the chewing thing will just go crazy chewing on bones for a while. I think they know they need to condition and get their gums healthy. But, maybe I'm putting too much thought into their motives.


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## Chris McDonald

Debbie Skinner said:


> After a bitch has whelped she will seem to crave liver. Not sure why..iron content? Also, when my puppies were sick, the first think they wanted to eat was liver then on day two they craved heart. Raw heart and liver that is. I don't know if there was anything to that. I offered them anything and everything to get them to eat.


 
Can you explain how you come to realize what they crave? Really im not shitting around


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## Debbie Skinner

Chris McDonald said:


> Can you explain how you come to realize what they crave? Really im not shitting around


When the puppies were sick with Parvo and then finally started to eat, I offered them a buffet of options. They would just zone in on the liver and then they switched to the beef heart. I offered a variety of meat (beef, lamb, pork) and then organ meat (liver and heart). I also offered chicken broth, canned food, softened Evo kibble, egg. I offered many choices and they would pig out on the liver and then heart once they really had their appetite back.

We used to do a sort of taste test with various kibble samples while at Pet Expos too and put different ones out to see which the dogs would choose. Never had one of my dogs choose any kibble over raw though. However, I have had boarding dogs and new dogs choose kibble (the familiar) over raw. One other thing, my very young puppies will always choose raw chopped/blended meats over soften kibble when introduced to food. 

Maybe crave is the wrong word...I think preference would be a better choice.


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## Andrew Rowley

Hi, i like the others really only use rice when i have a sick dog. For this ensure the rice is very well cooked ie cook for 30-35 mins instead of 20. and do not drain or allow to dry out as the moisutre helps hydrait the dog. feed regular small portions rather than one or two large meals when sick. My vet was explaining to me the advantages of this based form research into the human gutt and how the gut cells when damaged by illness then tend to get starved ( used to stearve the dogs for 24hrs) thus making them even weaker as these cells get repair from the food directly rather than the blodd like other cells. Hope that makes sense. 
I have a rott that had really bad gutts on kibble so learnt the hard way. Switched to raw and no problems any more.
Feed chicken wings and backs, they wont touch turkey necks. Minced chicken with bone, beef, lamb, organs, tripe(green as the white tripe has been washed and looses most of its value), veggie gloop, sradines, trout, and the wife treats them to sunday dinner left overs every week:-D i get big bones on the butcher, fresh with meat still on and the marrow they cant get too i will scarpe out and add to their dinner over the week.


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## Jason Hammel

Connie Sutherland said:


> Milder, would you like some reading material on feeding raw?
> 
> 
> But this has been covered here in exhaustive detail, and you're short-changing yourself if you rely on people re-typing many many words all over again.


 
If you have something set up for reading could you put me in for that too please? If it isn't too much trouble. It's making me crossed eyed tryin to compile all the info in diff threads and seperate it from the banter. I PM'd ya.


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## Zach Edaburn

I have a question about bones and such. I had went out to eat and brought back some ribs and fed them to my APBT and she loved it. But the next day when I took her to the bathroom I found blood in her poop. She had blood in her poop for about 2 days but it went away and I didnt think anything of it.
Is there certain bones you guys suggest to stay away from?


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## Connie Sutherland

Zach Edaburn said:


> I have a question about bones and such. I had went out to eat and brought back some ribs and fed them to my APBT and she loved it. But the next day when I took her to the bathroom I found blood in her poop. She had blood in her poop for about 2 days but it went away and I didnt think anything of it.
> Is there certain bones you guys suggest to stay away from?



Cooked bones? No cooked bones.


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## Chris McDonald

Zach Edaburn said:


> I have a question about bones and such. I had went out to eat and brought back some ribs and fed them to my APBT and she loved it. But the next day when I took her to the bathroom I found blood in her poop. She had blood in her poop for about 2 days but it went away and I didnt think anything of it.
> Is there certain bones you guys suggest to stay away from?


Good god, you don’t have children do you ?


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## Zach Edaburn

This was about 4 years ago, I still have alot to learn when it comes to dogs. The only thing I knew to keep a dog away from was Chocolate. And yes I have a son.....


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## Chris McDonald

Zach Edaburn said:


> This was about 4 years ago, I still have alot to learn when it comes to dogs. The only thing I knew to keep a dog away from was Chocolate. And yes I have a son.....


So you feed your dog cooked bones only once 4 years ago and just now figured out his ass was bleeding because of it?


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## Connie Sutherland

Chris McDonald said:


> So you feed your dog cooked bones only once 4 years ago and just now figured out his ass was bleeding because of it?


I wondered about that too. :lol:


Anyway, I do hope that NO COOKED BONES stood out. 
*
No cooked bones. *


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## Chris McDonald

Connie Sutherland said:


> I wondered about that too. :lol:
> 
> 
> Anyway, I do hope that NO COOKED BONES stood out.
> 
> *No cooked bones. *


I was going to have fun with this Zach guy about his bleeding ass thing, but in another post he said he was in Iraq so now I feel like a bigger scum bag than usual. Thanks men appreciate it. F**king cooked rip bones? Raw means not cooked, like the dogs that eat our dead enemy over there…. keep feeding the dogs over there! 
If you lock this at least keep the post… the last one you locked on me you guys took my post out… you know about the french


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## Zach Edaburn

Chris McDonald said:


> So you feed your dog cooked bones only once 4 years ago and just now figured out his ass was bleeding because of it?


 I fed the dog bones once 4 years ago, this was before I knew much about dogs. It didnt take me just now that she was bleeding. I made a mistake, didnt read books or anything. I was only 20 at the time, and after reading I was under the impression that you shouldnt feed dogs bones period. I read not to feed dogs cooked or raw bones because they can splinter. Yes I was a dumbass for feeding her a cooked bone, I know this now that I made a mistake.


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## Curtis McHail

I know this thread has a little age to it but...I don't feed any veggies at all. My pups are weaned on turkeyburger and grow up and live on a supplement free diet. I don't even supplement salmon oil...I feed salmon instead


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## Michelle Reusser

Anyone have links to premade raw diets you can order via mail? No one around here wants to give anything for free anymore. Used to be able to get all sorts of stuff free or for almost nothing, now next to nothing is less than $1.00lb, soup bones, lips, assholes, feet included. I used to get lots of hearts, liver, gibblets for real cheap now they cost more than the chicken 1/4's per lb. WTF? Never could find tripe within a reasonable driving distance, wasn't sure about paying $2 a can for the canned stuff.


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## Loring Cox

Michelle, I don't know about how economical it is but a few local handlers are using www.primalpetfoods.com for daily feedings. They are based in San Mateo County and are supposedly real nice people to work with. When I used to live in San Jose a buddy was going down to Hollister and buying tripe from www.greentripe.com.


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## Guest

Chris McDonald said:


> I was going to have fun with this Zach guy about his bleeding ass thing, but in another post he said he was in Iraq so now I feel like a bigger scum bag than usual. Thanks men appreciate it. F**king cooked rip bones? Raw means not cooked, like the dogs that eat our dead enemy over there…. keep feeding the dogs over there!
> If you lock this at least keep the post… the last one you locked on me you guys took my post out… you know about the french


I appreciate a soldier as much as the next guy but this is one ignorant post. eating dead enemies? Oh you mean the citizens of a country we invaded by mistake? I suppose you'll just bed over without a fight for the countries that decides to come for us. Good luck with that.


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## Dan Long

Michelle Kehoe said:


> Anyone have links to premade raw diets you can order via mail? No one around here wants to give anything for free anymore. Used to be able to get all sorts of stuff free or for almost nothing, now next to nothing is less than $1.00lb, soup bones, lips, assholes, feet included. I used to get lots of hearts, liver, gibblets for real cheap now they cost more than the chicken 1/4's per lb. WTF? Never could find tripe within a reasonable driving distance, wasn't sure about paying $2 a can for the canned stuff.


Any premade raw I've seen is much more expensive than purchasing bulk food and doing your own thing for your dogs. It might be convenient for little dogs but think about how many 4oz patties you'd be feeding your dog.


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## Guest

Vin Chiu said:


> I appreciate a soldier as much as the next guy but this is one ignorant post. eating dead enemies? _*Oh you mean the citizens of a country we invaded by mistake*_? I suppose you'll just bed over without a fight for the countries that decides to come for us. Good luck with that.


HUH? And what knowledge do you have of that????????????


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## Connie Sutherland

Raw feeding thread.
#-o


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## Guest

Connie Sutherland said:


> Raw feeding thread.
> #-o


 
:-$ I know I know, just URKS me....


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## Curtis McHail

To make it short and sweet? I feed raw meat, organ, and bone and have done so for 12 years no veggies, no vitamins, only salmon oil once a day. Deer, goat, lamb, pork, beef, rabbit, quail, chicken, duck, turkey, ocean fish, freshwater fish, brains, kidney, tripe, liver, eyeballs, hearts, gizzards, all of it. Everything a dog needs resides in some body part of a prey animal.


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## Matt Grosch

licking and a little biting at the paws a sign that the recent addition of raw chicken might be causing some allergies?


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## Domenic Spina

Yes,that could very well be.


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## Connie Sutherland

Matt Grosch said:


> licking and a little biting at the paws a sign that the recent addition of raw chicken might be causing some allergies?




Not nearly as likely as environmental/inhalant allergies. You can certainly remove the ingredient and watch, though. 

How bad is it? Inflamed between toes? How long?


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## Matt Grosch

nothing visible that I can tell, I just never noticed him do it before, and after doing raw chicken for a few days, did see him doing it a bit

I was looking for it because I had heard there could be an allergy issue


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