# High Environmental Pressure Training



## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

I threw this together last night - I don't think I edited it well, but I really didn't feel like re-uploading it 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJPyYlrEjgs


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

That was great!

Your decoy sure got my dogs agitated.=D>


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

now that is the pressure im talkin about. not many dogs can take that shit. Thats how i like to train. i like that he was actually hitting the dog. and the dog had alot of objects around. keep it up looks awesome


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Now that is FUN training. I gotta get me one of them rooms 

I love the carboard boxes, one of my favorite accessories for training. There are so many things you can build out of them and fill them with. And they are useful (just keep duct tape on hand) until they finally fall apart into little tiny pieces.


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

Haha, I always look like I'm driving a dumpster - the back of my van's always full of soda bottles and boxes. 

Obviously these are the dogs from high levels of training, already very confident. I have vids of the young dogs starting out in there that I'll try to put together.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Sure it is cool looking, but someone want to tell me where all this pressure is coming from????

Stationary boxes????

Back of the arm bite??

This may confuse a dog the first time, but high pressure???

Sorry, looked like fun, but don't see any pressure worth mentioning.


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## Kim Gossmeyer (Feb 24, 2007)

That looks like fun! I loved the video very cool!


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Now that's what I call good training. Good pups should be able to handle that very well. Nice to work that with dogs/pups going thru slightly-open windows and a lot of stacked wooden chairs that will go crashing down on the pup/dog as it approaches, then takes the decoy with all those obstructions on the floor with a decoy intent on protecting himself. Good explosions and smoke will spice up the workout.

Nice scenario...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Good pups should be able to handle it. It is called solid nerve. Just like the explosions and smoke, whoooooopideedoo.


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

With 990 posts I doubt you are getting alot of training in, unless you are letting your dogs watch you pick everyone else apart. Damn dude you can't be an expert on everything. Everytime some one posts you blastthem for what they said or did. Post some vids of your dogs doing that with your decoy given "real pressure" lets us see what you can do or have. =D>


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

Matt, Jeff gets off on people arguing with him. I understand - his profession is a "bartender", according to his profile - believe me, that's part of the job description  I think he's just trying to stir the pot a little for fun; besides, he does promote some really interesting discussion topics sometimes.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How long does it take to post???? Not like I did them in one night.

Do you feel that this is high pressure? If so, explain.

Questioning is not blasting. Like you are sensitive. If I was standing at training, and I questioned the pressure, I am quite sure you would give a different answer. Can I have that instead????

How often in training do you need high pressure???


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

Burned!!!!


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Matt Hammond said:


> With 990 posts I doubt you are getting alot of training in, unless you are letting your dogs watch you pick everyone else apart. Damn dude you can't be an expert on everything. Everytime some one posts you blastthem for what they said or did. Post some vids of your dogs doing that with your decoy given "real pressure" lets us see what you can do or have. =D>


Matt, I have an email address for you that doesn't work. I need a used suit if you know of any.

Bryan Colletti
From Ct.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

If I could make one comment about these videos, I find them fun and entertaining. The dogs look confident. I would love to see the Decoys, not present an arm. You have a that expensive suit, use it. It adds real pressure to the dog when they are not giving the bite of choice. The dogs are working through a little pressure getting through the boxes and such, now they get rescued with a presented arm. I would build from there. I like what you are doing. keep the videos coming.

Bryan


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

OMG real decoy answers! LOL.

I train for sport, and will never need a dog to respond to your kind of high pressure.

I would like to see a dog that would come off the sill right at you, so maybe the "pressure" you guys like to put on a dog is having an effect.

Most direct way to you right???

No matter what you think, I am not here at the keyboard thinking I am going to get that azzhole Matt. I have been coached most of my life in sports, and the critisim is part of daily life. If people didn't flip over it in dogsports, we would have decoys that could play in the selectiffs overseas......we don't, but I, for one would LOVE to see us represented in europe.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bryan Colletti said:


> .... I would love to see the Decoys, not present an arm. You have a that expensive suit, use it. It adds real pressure to the dog when they are not giving the bite of choice.


Is there a clip here somewhere that shows that?


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

i would like to see the dog just go thru the boxes in the jump it kinda looks like they are lost trying to get to the decoy. on the other hand this does show that the dogs can think on there own and find a way in. i personally would just have my dog bust thru the boxes. maybe i will simulate this sunday and show you what im talkin about.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

i take it back thats what the second dog did.!!! Sorry and by the way nice vid. most sport dogs wont take that pressure


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

In the video, the dog was "given" a back of the arm bite. The dog did not choose this, it was lowered and presented....thus "given" the reward.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

true i did see that. the dog should have to choose a target not be presented one. the decoy should be able to read the dog and see were it is gonna bite. not give it a place to bite. but i like everything else about the room


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

steve gossmeyer said:


> ... the dog should have to choose a target not be presented one....


Right. I was trying to find a clip like that.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Right when it goes to the view from the side.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Is there a clip here somewhere that shows that?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu9W-QdyNJ8

This is the closest thing I have to what I'm referring to, Boss is one of the Studs I use for our Police Dog breeding program. He will confidentally and with power bite in any and all conditions. However pay special attention to his bite placements, Center mass on first attack, inner thigh on escape attemtp and then back tricep on second attempt as I try to not allow a leg bite again. Yes there are several cheap shots, Boss is Eight now and gets only bites to help training, well the occasional female now and then too

Now, my main point is this. Not many dogs at all will bite just anywhere confidentally. Especially, if constantly given the arm. The dogs in this particular video display the courage needed to fight through the window and boxes, yet easy win with the decoy, where the only true pressure can come from at this point. SINCE, the boxes no longer pose a problem to them at this point. I like the training the dogs are doing, creative and fun. I would just stay away from being complacent. I don't agree with Jeff's whooopppidddoo assessment. The dogs show courage, it's the decoy now that has to keep progressing the scenarios.

Bryan


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

im not sure wich bite it is but i saw it as well


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Whoopideedoo, was for fire and smoke.

Nothing to do with the video.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Unless you are selling police dogs, what would you progress towards???


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Whoopideedoo, was for fire and smoke.
> 
> Nothing to do with the video.



It's smoke and explosions, Jeff. Common sense dictates you don't set fire in rooms.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jose Alberto Reanto said:


> It's smoke and explosions, Jeff. Common sense dictates you don't set fire in rooms.


That could be dangerous for the dogs in training, after all.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Unless you are selling police dogs, what would you progress towards???


The goals to progress in my training are as endless as my imagination can be. First, Experience, pushing the level of training makes you a better handler, decoy and trainer. I can't share my knowledge if I don't persue it first.

Secondly, constantly pushing the limits of your dogs, decoys and handlers abilities is the only way to further anything, what you saw and commented on is simply training. You can critique training all day long. Look at some of my video's and you see slow dim whitted decoys

It's from the mundane training you see little windows of progress or small glimpses of a new path you can take in training.

One of my goals, is to each time out in training, the dogs see something completely new, learn something new, and the handlers learn. No patterns, but well thought out scenarios and communication.

I hope Jeff, you are not aversed to visualizing growth in training. I don't those folks in the video in the least bit, however, I would think they are on their to whatever goals they have, Mondio, Personal Protection, Police and with the more experience they gain in training the less we will all have to critique. 

Good luck Amber and Jeff, peace to you.

Bryan


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## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

I do notice differences in the 2 videos, (from a somewhat inexperienced standpoint).

The 2nd Video (Boss video) I enjoy because of the decoy actually acting like he is in pain, actually fighting with the dog, testing confidence, challenging the dog. I feel this is important, for any protection dog to experience in training, if it is to every protect anyone. The more life-like the experience are the better the dog will be prepared for a real-life incident. Though it won't earn you any point in the ring, I do enjoy a dog who doesn't out well due to his drive to fight the decoy, like Boss does. 

Maybe the 1st video was an less-experienced dog, but I do feel like there were alot of distractions, yes- physically, but not mentally. I do not feel like the dog had enough of a threatening fight with the decoy. He didn't look scary or mean or really anything other than a padded suit to reard the dog for climbing through the boxes. (Maybe this was because the dog was not at this level yet?) I don't know the dog or decoy's levels, so these are just guesses on my observations. It just really didn't seem like a stressfull situation for the dog to endure. He was wagging his tail, not alot of aggression- confidence in prey it seemed. 
The 2nd vid showed a dog who wanted to fight the decoy, aggressively, and with confidence.
Shouldn't a handler do something to increase the urgency or the situation like run around and peek and see and act urgent and maybe a little less comfortable (or more than just standing and watching shouting commands?) 

In my opinion, mental pressure should be the thing that determines if the dog is good or not. I think a good dog can. I do not believe that vid 1 was a high stress situation for that dog. V2 was more of a stressful one, but like Bryan said, imagination is the thing- I can imagine alot more, just give me a dog who can handle it! 

These are all just comments and opinion from my point of view- no judgements here. I would love to learn- so please critique my observations!  And , if needed, please forgive my ignorance ahead of time.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

One of the things I see very often in vids is the decoy with a dog on the back of the arm screaming at the dog. When this is all a dog sees, there is a definate lowering of drive......what is the point? you can almost see them thinking that. (For you Jose LOL)

I like to see a decoy be the dogs bitch in training. That way, when you do decide to pick it up a bit, the strong ones get really pissed off.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quoteamn dude you can't be an expert on everything. 

Why not? How much is there to dog training really?

Look at what you want to accomplish, set a good foundation and progress towards those goals.

I have watched 16 year old that decoy circles around pretty much EVERY video I have ever seen posted anywhere.

Untill we can start getting more of those, we are pretty stuck at the levels we are at.

My hope by poking at people to start their own club, and start hacking away at the OTS sports, and breeding new decoys LOL we can start living my dream of world domination.

Not so much to ask, not like Sch is gonna get you anywhere. (like psa or asr : ) will )


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> My hope by poking at people to start their own club, and start hacking away at the OTS sports, and breeding new decoys LOL we can start living my dream of world domination.


Ah ha, so the truth comes out! World domination indeed. And just how does one breed new and better decoys, I wonder? There's not that many female decoys and helpers. Kind of a limited gene pool if you ask me. Then again, back when hubby and me were still dating, the grandmaster of our martial arts organization wanted us (me the black belt and DH the 3rd degree black belt) to get married so we'd have lots of good karate babies. :lol:

PS...the Led Zeppelin on the Boss video is awesome. 8)


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

If that 16 yr old is so good, then how come we haven't seen any vids of this superstar. By the way, we have four small boys we are grooming right now, these boys were bred just for this type of work, give us a few years and we'll release the vids.LOL Right now they use a leg sleeve as a bitesuit.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

jay lyda said:


> ....Right now they use a leg sleeve as a bitesuit.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Jay, that is AWESOME!!!!

Now if you can just not let them see Matt trying to work a dog LOL

We need younger decoys, but I think they should at least weigh as much as the dog to start : )


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

This is some training we did a week or so ago. We were trying new stuff that's not seen anywhere else. Some of it we got right some we didn't but we're giving it all great thoughts. It's really nice to hear your thoughts for this does help us.

This is all part of something that will be airing at a theater near you soon. Sooner than we have thought. 

We, that are doing this, have to get it right and we will.

STAY tuned for more.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> This is some training we did a week or so ago..


Where is it? Is there a link I'm missing?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Should be fun to see, looking forward to it.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

We have them working Boston Terriers right now, BTW, two of them ARE Matts sons and he IS a great decoy and has lots to teach them.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quick, send them to europe!!!


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

Europe is where I learned how to decoy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

From the Norwegians? For how long? That would be fun to do. : P


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