# Spay before or after first heat?



## vicki dickey

I would like some opinions on the best time to spay and why. I did some research but would like opinions from people who have spayed before and after the first heat. Are there benefits in waiting till 9 months, a year etc? Some will not even come in heat until 18 months while others come in as early as 6 months. Just some thoughts, information and experience. Thank you.


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## Anne Jones

My feelings are that leaving a dog whole/intact(female or male) for the 1st 2 years, allows the dog to use their hormones to grow properly skeletally as well as muscularly. Growth plates don't usually close until around 2 years of age for most larger breeds. At least GSD size breeds. In some cases later than that. So I would want to allow at least that time if not until 3 for better physical & mental maturity to take place. After that I guess it is even more of a personal choice & the type of work the dog is doing. Some of the folks doing protection work want the hormones there throughout the working life of the dog. 

Dogs that are 'fixed' early often grow leggy (long legged) & don't develop fully muscularly. They can also look a little 'off' from what the breed normally looks like.

It goes without saying that if you are leaving a dog whole/intact you need to be able to contain the dog properly in order to avoid any unwanted breeding.

Even if I felt the necessity of 'fixing' early, I would still not do it until the pup was at least a year old or more & at least after a first heat with a female. I understand the reason for fixing young pups that are mix breeds at a young age,(shelter, rescues etc under 6 mo) but I just think that it is so much more risky to put a really young dog under anesthesia. I'm not a vet...but I just would never do it. All JMO, of course.


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## rick smith

the decision to spay or not should depend on a number of variables and some have already been provided ... pre or post heat would not be a priority to me, and i have heard some pretty strange logic used to defend both options 
- re: "Dogs that are 'fixed' early often grow leggy (long legged) & don't develop fully muscularly. They can also look a little 'off' from what the breed normally looks like."
...i've heard that too but it is impossible to verify this statement for certain ... again, altho the "logic" may fit, obviously, once you S/N you can't compare it and the dog may just grow up "leggy" or whatever for a variety of other reasons ... plus there were never definitive studies that i know of that confirmed this and i have researched the issue a lot; but if you know of any, please post the refs
.. fwiw, i have known a lot of owners with fat assed m/f dogs that weren't leggy at all who were "fixed" as young pups as per their vet's advice and prognosis //lol//


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## julie allen

I have done both, and don't see a difference. If its a bitch I have no intention of possibly breeding, I spay before. If its a possible good bitch, I wait to see.


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## Karen M Wood

I have had experiences on both sides of the fence. With American Bulldogs. 
I had females that i kept intact unlit 2 to 4 years old. The one spayed at 2 was never bred. The one spaded after 4 had 1 litter. Of the 5 female pups from that breeding i culled two with early spaying, both before their first heat. The smaller female stayed smaller (about 70 lbs) and had a tiny head. Her sister who i didn't think was going to turn out special, fooled me by turning out with a huge head and great structure. Even though she was spayed.
Of the other three females two were sold as possible breeding dogs. And one as a pet. 
The second pick female was returned and later spayed at about 2. She is a big ole girl but now suffers spay incontience. Very annoying and i have to keep her on pills. 
The first pick female is huge and i have lost contact so i do not know if she was ever bred or spayed.
The Pet puppy came back after the owner got divorced and was such a nice though smaller dog that we did breed her. Some of her pups are working hog dogs and show champions.
The only male in the litter was kept intact until the day he died. He was never bred.
I also have placed a lot of dogs and pups through rescue and most were spayed or neutered young.
Puppies recover from surgery much much faster then adult dogs and seem to be less bothered by the whole experience.
I worked for a vet for 8 years and saw a lot of dog that were both fixed early and left intact their whole lives. I've seen a bunch of cases of testicular cancer in toy breeds. And pyos in large breeds.
And i've seen early neuters make some breed taller and finer boned then their intact littermates.

And if someone wants to do the research http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato 
here is some info where we did this to humans. 
My two cents, if your dog is for pet only, and you want a nice complete looking and acting dog. Wait a heat or two. What ever you can tolerate. If you don't want to bother with a bitch in heat get her fixed and be done with it. The true differences are minimual. With Spay incontience being the biggest factor for me.
Karen


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## Connie Sutherland

IMHO, anyone who is not certain that they can protect the female from so-called oops pregnancies should spay. That category of owner is probably not much of a presence here.

Beyond that, here's what I believe is some pretty balanced info: http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Even the brief conclusions part on the bottom of page 9 is pretty thought-provoking.


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## Ben Thompson

Is it true they do not usually spay neuter dogs in most European countries?


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## Bob Scott

The statement "often grow leggy when fixed early" has been proven with studies and x-ray. The growth plates close later when spayed early.


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## Alice Bezemer

Ben Thompson said:


> Is it true they do not usually spay neuter dogs in most European countries?


I don't know about most European countries but in the Netherlands it's not regular practice to spay or neuter as far as I know. It will mostly happen for medical reasons but thats about it. I believe shelters spay and neuter but not as a rule.

2 things to consider for spaying a female for me are the quality of their fur which with some dogs will change. Trust me, shedding 24/7/365? It sucks! specialy with a dog that is kept in the house. The incontince thing is also something to keep in mind. I would never spay or neuter unless there was a medical indication for it.


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## Kara Fitzpatrick

your dog, your decision!
Personally, I would spay after the first heat or two to let the dog mature naturally and fill out. Esp. because you are a responsible pet owner. When there are idiot "regular" people, I say spay early because I see so many "accidents" happen, which leads to more dogs in shelters. Just my opinion. 

There are actually a lot of medical indications for spaying, just things to keep in mind: 


*Mammary (breast) cancer *Females spayed prior to their first estrus cycle have a significantly reduced risk of developing mammary cancer, a common cancer in unspayed females. The chances of developing this cancer increase if a female isn’t spayed until after her second heat cycle, but they still remain lower than the risk for unspayed females. So if your dog has already gone through her first heat cycle, it’s not too late. Spaying her will still reduce her risk of developing cancerous mammary tumors.
*Pyometra* Bacteria can infect a female dog’s uterus, causing a potentially fatal infection. This kind of infection, called pyometra, usually occurs in older females (about seven to eight years of age). Approximately 25% of all unspayed females will suffer from pyometra before the age of 10. If your unspayed female shows signs of lethargy, depression, anorexia, excessive water drinking, vaginal discharge, excessive urination, pale mucous membranes (the skin inside her mouth and nose), vomiting, diarrhea, weight loss, abdominal distension or inflamed eyes, get her to a veterinarian immediately. Having your dog spayed greatly reduces the possibility that she’ll contract pyometra.
*Ovarian and uterine tumors *Ovarian and uterine tumors are uncommon in dogs, although some breeds may be predisposed to developing ovarian tumors. Older female dogs are at increased risk. Having your dog spayed completely eliminates the possibility of her developing ovarian or uterine cancer.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Along with what Connie said regarding your ability to prevent accidental preganancies, I'm on the side of keeping animals intact. There is a lot to be said for a fully functioning endocrine system. If you are working with a breeder, they ought to be able to tell you about their bitch line and mammary tumour incidence and/or pyometra. I think there is a direct connection between spay/neuter and certain other cancers. Its never a question of first or second heat cycle for me. More like age 5-6 or even beyond for a couple of mine and no, they weren't bred. As for spay incontinence, I've been able to resolve that with a diet change.

T


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## Sara Waters

I have had many bitches. The majority were spayed between the ages of 6 months and 12 months. My family has also had quite a few ex breeding bitches that were spayed at ages 6 and above. I have never seen any difference in legginess. I think in many cases there are only millimetres involved. They both blow their coats just as bad in the case of cattle dogs. My mums current ex breeding bitch blows her coat far worse than any of my spayed earlier spayed cattle dogs.

The only dog I have left intact till after her first heat was because she had a congenital incontinence present from the minute I picked her up as a pup at 9 weeks old. Unfortunately 6 weeks after her first heat she I nearly lost her to pyometra which involved an emergency spay. Propalin controls her incontinence.

Of all my other spayed bitches I have only ever had one who developed incontininece at age 10 and she had bouts of incontinence before she was spayed. Propalin works well. Had one ex breeding bitch also develop incontinence.

I have never had so far any health problems with my dogs and they have all been working dogs. All lean fit and healthy. Never had a weight issue. I have had one cruciate issue, but my mothers ex breeding bitch from the same lines also had cruciate issues as well so probably genetically a bit straight in the stifle.

My boy dogs I leave till they are about 20 months to neuter.

I wouldnt not spay my bitches because we get wild dogs coming in from the pastoral areas which I am adjacent to that will take bitches on heat and cause all sorts of problems and decimate ones sheep along the way and kill the male dogs. I also like to run my dogs and bitches together and not have to worry about accidental breedings. I have never had any problems at all with spaying before the first heat. So far no cancers or other problems. All have lived 15 to 17 years of age.


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## Steve Estrada

I don't agree with these statements, if you examine the incident percentage you'll find that it's less than 1% those terms including testicular cancer are aimed at the heart not the mind in my opinion. That percentage may not be absolutely correct as I'm depending upon faulty memory


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## Steve Estrada

That was suppose to be in regards to Kara's post. The link Connie recommended is one I also highly recommend. I also believe it has todo with responsible ownership as previously stated......


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## Chris Keister

As far as health and maturity wise, I would wait for 2-3 cycles prior to spay depending on the individual cycles. I would not spay a bitch until she was at least 18 months for the reasons previously stated. 

My old competition bitch was a nice female and the person who sold her and I had an agreement to a possible future breeding. Her first cycle with me (second cycle for the dog) she got a bacterial infection that went to her kidneys, she almost died. Then our first competition, she was in heat and throwing up and dihareha all over the place. ( still got her brevet) 

This particular dog's immunity dropped considerably during her cycles. That combined with my desire to compete we made the decision to spay her. It actually helped her quite a bit but she was around 18-20 months when I did it.

She was a nice bitch out of Boscialle lines so it would have been nice to get a breeding but I made the decision I thought was best.


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## Guest

I have a female that goes into heat every 2-3 months, has had four false pregnancies, two pyometrias and had a litter and was the best mom I have ever witnessed, HOWEVER....it became a pain in the ass, she thinks she is a mom to everything and the heats and fals pregos were becoming ridiculous. I spayed her at the age of four. Since the spay about 9 months ago, her drive increased (not that it was lacking) Character became more bold, (didn't need that either) and still a flirt and acts the same towards other younger dogs, without the heats and false pregos....

I have heard and read different opinions, but this was all new to me on her, so I decided to spay for all our sakes and make it easier for her and I. Worked out great. Every dog is different.


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## Nicole Stark

Vicki, I experienced something similar to what was stated above and mentioned this here previously on the WDF. Similarly, my bitch always looked like she was in heat or seemed to express an abnormal interest in mothering things or wanting to try to get males to engage with her. This really doesn't answer your question about when though. 

IMO you need to know the possible consequences of early spaying, the line you are working with in terms of maturation rates, and any potential geneticically driven causitive reasons to spay your femaile perhaps earlier than later. An important consideration is whether or not it's necessary and if you like the qualities of the dog as they are before you. While I've heard that most don't change after a spay, in the event that it does you could find yourself with a different dog before you. 

JMO.

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/233898-post15.html

BTW the entire thread that this reply was for can be found here: http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/spay-not-spay-18062/#post233898. There are probably 4-5 similar threads out there as well.


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## Kara Fitzpatrick

Steve Estrada said:


> I don't agree with these statements, if you examine the incident percentage you'll find that it's less than 1% those terms including testicular cancer are aimed at the heart not the mind in my opinion. That percentage may not be absolutely correct as I'm depending upon faulty memory


I gave my personal opinion that I wouldn't spay a bitch until after her first or second heat cycle. 
For regular pet owners... as soon as possible. 

really? pyometra? because we see at least 2 every month here at the clinic. it's a very real, serious issue a lot of females dogs have which costs hundreds, even thousands of dollars. 
I don't think mammary cancer is a huge issue if you know your pedigree, but it is still an increased risk with unspayed females. 
Do you have the incident percentages I can look at? I would really like to look at them- I haven't been able to find any myself (which, regarding the risk of mammary cancer, is something I've been interested in). Thanks!  

p.s. of course males rarely have any issues staying intact- you guys always have it easy!


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## vicki dickey

Thank you all for the great information. The link Connie provided had outstanding information and thank you Connie for sharing it. 

I have a 2.5 year old male that I was considering neutering. And a 5 month old female pup that is turning out far nicer than anyone thought that now has us rethinking our plans for her. Ultimately I want to do what is right for their health and well being first. This information has given me more to think about.


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## Nicole Stark

I find that this decision is largely driven by personal attitudes and values and that a decision one way or another really cannot be made by the general consensus. Individuals will believe/embrace the details that they are comfortable and familiar with, those not so get passed off as untruths or matters that on some level can be difficult to verify. The customs and practices relating to this topic can and probably should vary from breed to breed as well.

Originally, I wasn't going to respond to this thread because it's not a question that general membership can answer for someone. Research is out there to guide people in making this decision and it certainly is abundant but it can have a hidden agenda. Knowing when that is the case isn't always possible. As stated by others there are a lot of very specific variables that need to be considered before doing so.

Pyo is what removed the breeders choice breeding bitch in my mastiffs litter from his breeding program entirely. It's also what drove my decision to spay her sister because I am not always at liberty to leave the area I am in at the drop of a hat to get help for my dogs so I have to make my decisions accordingly.

When I made the above noted post to Ryan I didn't know of anyone who had dogs that got mammary cancer. That quickly changed when one of my employees who has sled dogs, most of which are intact, started reaching 13-15 years of age. Within a years time multiple, related females showed up with mammary cancer. Now, my experience and knowledge of the subject is broader than it used to be. Something I have wondered since then is if mammary cancer is something more frequently seen in older dogs and if so, how much breed specificity plays a role especially in those that are not known to have a significant life expectancy.

Vicki whatever you decide, good luck to you.


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## Steve Estrada

Kara I searched also finding such descrepencies in numbers I couldnt believe a thing. Noticed that those seeking donations had a higher percentage Hmmmn! Here is another interesting link. http://www.dogcancerblog.com/spaying-neutering-and-cancer-in-rottweilers/ 
The human parallels about the increase are alarming.....


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Seems there are a lot of reproductive abnormalities. If they are screwed up, sure spay them. But this is a genetic issue as well. Like anything else, reproductive abnormalities can be selected against. Screwed up endocrine systems affect the reproductive system. Have had normal dogs live 13-15 years intact and without issues.

T


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## Sara Waters

Yes I think you have to do what is right for you having read all the information. 

I have had several brushes with pyo and I have several friends who have lost their bitches to pyo. I also live a very very long way from vet help so between the fear of pyo and wild dogs I spay em before their first heats, but I generally wait till 9 months regardless. I haventso far had one come on heat before 9 months.

I just weighed up all the pros and cons and the fact that nothing I have seen over many years of being involved with dogs has made me have any cause for concern at doing this. 

Breeding is not on my agenda regardless of the quality of the dog. There are good working dog breeders I can source my dogs from.

I am also only speaking for the breeds that I know well which are all medium sized, not the larger breeds which may be entirely different.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

I don't think its a size/breed thing necessarily. I have lived with three breeds, multiple sizes. Pyometra is a management issue, for me. It comes down to how attuned you are to the dog being even slightly off and early intervention. Like I told a vet recently, I'm fine with leaving them intact if the system works. If it doesn't work, take it out. My dogs are house dogs and there is no issue of them being bred unless I want them to be. Everyone has their priorities and lifestyle and that's what is going to come down to.

T


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## Ben Thompson

Alice Bezemer said:


> I don't know about most European countries but in the Netherlands it's not regular practice to spay or neuter as far as I know. It will mostly happen for medical reasons but thats about it. I believe shelters spay and neuter but not as a rule.
> 
> 2 things to consider for spaying a female for me are the quality of their fur which with some dogs will change. Trust me, shedding 24/7/365? It sucks! specialy with a dog that is kept in the house. The incontince thing is also something to keep in mind. I would never spay or neuter unless there was a medical indication for it.


 My mentor is from Europe and does not spay neuter either. So I try to follow...I'm especially not a fan of fixing dogs if they are doing serious bite work. Thats just my way though. I saw a spayed bitch recently that I thought was pretty good.


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## Kat Hunsecker

I don't like spaying unless there is a medical reason....
Cancer threat of course goes down, if there is no uterus, there can't be cancer. ;o)

Either way do you plan on a "total" or just a "sterilisation" ???


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## Sara Waters

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I don't think its a size/breed thing necessarily. I have lived with three breeds, multiple sizes. Pyometra is a management issue, for me. It comes down to how attuned you are to the dog being even slightly off and early intervention. Like I told a vet recently, I'm fine with leaving them intact if the system works. If it doesn't work, take it out. My dogs are house dogs and there is no issue of them being bred unless I want them to be. Everyone has their priorities and lifestyle and that's what is going to come down to.
> 
> T


I guess when I referred to size and breed I meant in regards to things like growth plate closure and maturity. Bigger dogs taking longer to complete that phase etc. and in regard to breed with Rotties for example apparently being more prone to osteosarcomas and dysplasias. My breeds are less prone to some of these things and are smaller. I dont really have a problem spaying them at 9 -12 months old. I might think differently if I owned something else. I dont know because I have never had to really look in to it.

I am pretty attuned to my dogs, but an emergency for me would be an enormous undertaking so I try and reduce the risk. As a human if I have a medical emergency I would be carted off by the royal flying doctor, with my dogs it is something else entirely. 

Yes it is priorities and lifestyle. However I would make an effort to change if I thought the health of my dogs was at risk. My dogs have all been long lived and healthy, I dont see any physical differences between the spayed bitches and unspayed bitches of the same breed. I dont have weight problems and health problems have been minimal really. It certainly doesnt affect thier working ability on sheep.


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## Amber Scott Dyer

Kara Fitzpatrick Vanhove said:


> I don't think mammary cancer is a huge issue if you know your pedigree, but it is still an increased risk with unspayed females.


Lost my female dobe last year to inflammatory mammary carcinoma at only five years old, best dog I've ever had. Knew her pedigree inside and out, no problems with cancer anywhere.


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## Kara Fitzpatrick

So sorry for your loss! Very scary.


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## Amber Scott Dyer

It's fine. She was a great girl. I'm just saying that it can happen to anyone. I didn't spay her because of working her, no intention to breed, but after going through what we did, I don't know that I'll ever own another unaltered female dog. I found the mass when it was less than the size of a marble. We excised the entire mammary chain thinking that the histo would come back relatively benign and it had already metastasized to the lymph nodes. Not even three months later, she had ulcerated masses all down her stomach and spread to her lungs. UGA wouldn't even recommend chemo and said radiation wasn't even worth it. Sad, sad.


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## Ryan Venables

I still haven't spayed her. Not sure if I will... We're in no rush.



Nicole Stark said:


> I find that this decision is largely driven by personal attitudes and values and that a decision one way or another really cannot be made by the general consensus. Individuals will believe/embrace the details that they are comfortable and familiar with, those not so get passed off as untruths or matters that on some level can be difficult to verify. The customs and practices relating to this topic can and probably should vary from breed to breed as well.
> 
> Originally, I wasn't going to respond to this thread because it's not a question that general membership can answer for someone. Research is out there to guide people in making this decision and it certainly is abundant but it can have a hidden agenda. Knowing when that is the case isn't always possible. As stated by others there are a lot of very specific variables that need to be considered before doing so.
> 
> Pyo is what removed the breeders choice breeding bitch in my mastiffs litter from his breeding program entirely. It's also what drove my decision to spay her sister because I am not always at liberty to leave the area I am in at the drop of a hat to get help for my dogs so I have to make my decisions accordingly.
> 
> When I made the above noted post to Ryan I didn't know of anyone who had dogs that got mammary cancer. That quickly changed when one of my employees who has sled dogs, most of which are intact, started reaching 13-15 years of age. Within a years time multiple, related females showed up with mammary cancer. Now, my experience and knowledge of the subject is broader than it used to be. Something I have wondered since then is if mammary cancer is something more frequently seen in older dogs and if so, how much breed specificity plays a role especially in those that are not known to have a significant life expectancy.
> 
> Vicki whatever you decide, good luck to you.


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## Jon Howard

From a veterinarian point of view as a surgeon when performing a spey:

1. Do it before the first heat as the uterus goes through some permenant changes after that first heat. The uterus enlarges. The blood supply becomes much more prominant after the first heat even after she comes off. This increases the amount of trauma as well as risk of surgical complications ie bleeding.

2. Do it at least 63 days after the heat. The canine reproductive system goes through hormonal changes which last the length of a normal pregnancy regardless if in pup or not. Even a month after coming off heat the enlargement of the uterus and engorged blood vessels are still present. The uterus tends to be friable during this time as well. It annoys the hell out of me when they bring in a dog a few days/week after coming off heat wanting the dog to be speyed. Extra time (tie off extra vessels etc) under anaesthesia increases risk!

3. If wanting to spey when older do it sooner than later. As a dog ages they build up significant amounts of intra-abdominal fat. Fatty greasy organs are a nightmare for tissue handling. Once again performing a spey on these ones = more trauma, anaesthetic time and more risk.

Don't know whether the above plays a factor in a clients perspective on when to spey but at our practice we will charge extra for the above (usually $100 + based on extra materials and time). So it really affects our clients hip pockets.

cheers

J


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## julie allen

Jon Howard said:


> From a veterinarian point of view as a surgeon when performing a spey:
> 
> 1. Do it before the first heat as the uterus goes through some permenant changes after that first heat. The uterus enlarges. The blood supply becomes much more prominant after the first heat even after she comes off. This increases the amount of trauma as well as risk of surgical complications ie bleeding.
> 
> 2. Do it at least 63 days after the heat. The canine reproductive system goes through hormonal changes which last the length of a normal pregnancy regardless if in pup or not. Even a month after coming off heat the enlargement of the uterus and engorged blood vessels are still present. The uterus tends to be friable during this time as well. It annoys the hell out of me when they bring in a dog a few days/week after coming off heat wanting the dog to be speyed. Extra time (tie off extra vessels etc) under anaesthesia increases risk!
> 
> 3. If wanting to spey when older do it sooner than later. As a dog ages they build up significant amounts of intra-abdominal fat. Fatty greasy organs are a nightmare for tissue handling. Once again performing a spey on these ones = more trauma, anaesthetic time and more risk.
> 
> Don't know whether the above plays a factor in a clients perspective on when to spey but at our practice we will charge extra for the above (usually $100 + based on extra materials and time). So it really affects our clients hip pockets.
> 
> cheers
> 
> J


From the vets view, weighing the pros and cons, is it healthier to spay or leave a bitch intact?


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## Sara Waters

julie allen said:


> From the vets view, weighing the pros and cons, is it healthier to spay or leave a bitch intact?


Interesting to see what Jon has to say. I have a friend who has been a small animal surgical specialist for many years and gets to see and treat many referred conditions. She has no problems speying her own dogs before their first heat. She has never had to operate on them or treat them for anything serious.


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## Jon Howard

julie allen said:


> From the vets view, weighing the pros and cons, is it healthier to spay or leave a bitch intact?


Well once you spey you eliminate the risk of pyometra. You need to spey under about 2 years old to eliminate mammary tumours. Surgery and anaesthesetic risk is extremely low.

The main complication with speying that people bring up is urinary incontinence. I have seen one case of this in the last 2 years. I have had other cases where owners were blaming early speying as the cause in geriatric dogs when it was due to spinal nerve problems.
I have seen far more mammary tumours and pyometras than urinary complications of speying.

So I would say it is healthier to spey at a young age

Having said that I have seen dogs succumb and die to a myriad of other diseases.

My main advantage for speying at a young age is convienience. Most pet owners never plan to have puppies, don't want to deal with an accidental litter or deal with the bi-annual or thereabouts hormonal changes of the bitch. In the area where I practice it is rural and a bitch on heat will bring wild dogs to your back door and kill her and any other dog in the way.
Also we have a few clients still paying off a $1300 debt due to an emergency caesarian.

If you plan to breed or are happy to deal with an intact bitch then its no biggie. There are many intact bitches that never get pyometra or mammary tumours. You just need to be on the ball for any symptoms and be prepared for any costs and complications that arises from it.


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## Nicole Stark

Jon, where are you from that spay is spelled like that (spey)? I only ask because every once in a while Andreas creates new words for us that are interesting and unique, sometimes they are even a little bit naughty.

Come to find out he's a lazy writer, which serves as a great source of amusement to me otherwise. But, I'm asking an honest question here. I was just wondering if you were from some place that used that word in such a manner or maybe I've been clueless about something that's well known to others. Sometimes that's the case and I always manage to get a chuckle from my apparent oblivity to something fairly obvious.


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## Jon Howard

Nicole Stark said:


> Jon, where are you from that spay is spelled like that (spey)? I only ask because every once in a while Andreas creates new words for us that are interesting and unique, sometimes they are even a little bit naughty.
> 
> Come to find out he's a lazy writer, which serves as a great source of amusement to me otherwise. But, I'm asking an honest question here. I was just wondering if you were from some place that used that word in such a manner or maybe I've been clueless about something that's well known to others. Sometimes that's the case and I always manage to get a chuckle from my apparent oblivity to something fairly obvious.


Spey is "Australian" english derived from "British" english (we are still a colony unfortunately ;P )
Most Australian vets have adopted "American" english and spell it Spay. I'm just a grammar Nazi.


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## Nicole Stark

That's interesting, I did not know that. Thanks for the explanation. Being Aussie, kinda explains it all LOL. You guys are all mixed up down there.


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