# Danni BH Prep



## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I know we still have stuff to work on, and that this is only pieces of the routine. I actually wasn't pleased with her performance at all when I first filmed and watched this. She was crowding a lot, her butt was sticking out, and she was super slow to sit.

The sit in the change of pace was totally my fault. The grass at this park is extremely hard to walk in. I know that sounds funny and I'm not making excuses but look at how I walk without the dog. I even look funny there. I just went here because I wanted to film before dark and it's the closest place.

Anyway, we've got a few things to work on still but now that I watch it again she does look pretty good. I know she'll pass, I just want to feel really good about entering a trial. I want to get it done and over with but I also want to enjoy it. I know it's just a BH, but I don't know, I guess I'm just weird.

It's my first working dog and my first IPO trial (I haven't even been to a trial before) so I'm just trying to get my handling down before I enter.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYq8GwD3o4Q&feature=youtu.be


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Nice, strong refinement over the first example you put up. Did you use a specific technique on your turns? They're really sharp. The down is nice too. I see what you mean about that ground. It's like that at my cabin too, the elevation changes just enough to screw up your pace or the fluidity of movement.

I commend you for wanting a sharp and tight picture before hitting the trial field for the first time. IMO this is a mark of someone who concentrates upon details and is a true competitor at heart. Looks to me like you've had some good, honest, and consistent guidance along the way. Very nice.

Oh and of course it goes without saying that you should take this feedback with a grain of salt. I've never trialed a dog before and probably don't really know what I am looking at or for.

Nicole


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks!

And right?! The ground totally is stupid. Even the grass is just...poofy. I compare it to trying to do obedience on my bed.

And thanks for noticing the improvement. I've definitely been working on it. For her abouts I just kept a ball under my left arm, started walking, said fuss, turned around and tugged the leash with my right hand around me. Does that make sense? I started rewarding her for just coming around, then progressed. 

I've definitely had major guidance from great people.

And hey, just because we haven't trialed doesn't mean we don't know anything! I don't know anything about trialing, but I do training. And I've found some of the most successful people (with the least failing scores) are the ones that don't trial the most.

Thanks for the kind words, Nicole. I really appreciate it!


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I didn't see the first example but dog looks pretty polished for the prep stage.

T


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks T!

I'm on my phone and it's telling me I have to post at least 10 characters to reply, so I'm just adding this in as extra text. Weird. Lol!


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Excellent Katie =D>


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Nice work !!!!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> For her abouts I just kept a ball under my left arm, started walking, said fuss, turned around and tugged the leash with my right hand around me. Does that make sense?


Indeed. Thank you.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

yer bed must be pretty lumpy 

looks good..thanks for sharing


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I like it a lot, especially the second about turn. Very crisp. Watch the arm movement at 1:58 though. Some dogs will see that and break cause they may think of it as a hand signal. Good luck for your trial!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I like it a lot, especially the second about turn. Very crisp. *Watch the arm movement at 1:58 though. Some dogs will see that and break cause they may think of it as a hand signal*. Good luck for your trial!



I think Katie is safe with picking her nose, without the dog breaking.. 

Is the dog even trained with hand signals? Have you seen lots of dogs breaking a SCH OB routine because of this?


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Looks nice. The judge might make a mention of you not stopping on the sit and down out of motion, they seem to be pointing that out to handlers as it is a rule change. Also, try to remember to pause for 3 seconds at the front before giving the command for your dog to get into heel.

Have fun out there at your trial and good luck!!


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## Melissa Leistikow (Jan 5, 2012)

I thought it looked great!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

You'll have no problem passing a BH but for the IPO I etc.
You need to watch a few things. I like the bouncing heeling/attitude but be aware they can point that now. The dogs top line is supposed to stay even/flat (Personally I'd take the points ). Try to move your left arm more naturally (hard to do if you've got a ball under there) Remember 3 SECOND pauses before you finish the dog from the front position and after you praise/pet before starting the next exercise. All in all nice work and showing improvement.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I think Katie is safe with picking her nose, without the dog breaking..
> 
> Is the dog even trained with hand signals? Have you seen lots of dogs breaking a SCH OB routine because of this?


I have seen dogs break for something as subtle for a slightly bigger inhalation, like what you would do just before a recall. During my dog's BH, it was quite windy and some of my hair blew across my face while doing the return from the sit in motion. I didn't even think about it and brushed it out of my face as I was walking back to my dog. He promptly went from a sit to a down. Darn. I don't underestimate what a dog might think of as a cue now and I proof for it. Yet what does he do when I turn around after the two minute downstay for his PSA 1? He gets up and takes a step forward into a sit. The classic trial "they never did that before..." moment. Lost almost all his downstay points on what was otherwise a nice routine.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I have seen dogs break for something as subtle for a slightly bigger inhalation


And none of those dogs had obedience as good as what's in the video. 

That looks very good Katie!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Wow, Katie looking GOOD!!! 
:grin:

I really like Danni, she looks better all the time, every time I watch a video of you and Danni I see an outstanding team in the making.

Re: about turns
The only reason the dog LOOKED wide (she really wasn't) on your first about turn is because you pivoted with your legs apart. This means when the dog has to go behind you, she has to go further to get around your behind leg. When you pivot with your legs together, (as you did on your second about), the dog curls right around your body, which is exactly what you want. So, practice about turns without your dog, only make the pivot when you bring both legs together, then do it with the dog. (Laura from this forum taught me that cool trick).

I know how difficult it is to walk in that kind of grass. I can tell you from personal experience, that the faster my own pace is with my dogs, the less they bounce. I find it helps to shorten my stride but pick up the pace in that kind of grass.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Looks very good Katie. Thank you for sharing the video!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> And none of those dogs had obedience as good as what's in the video.
> 
> That looks very good Katie!


I think all had pretty respectable obedience. Just never know what may throw a dog on trial day if the handler is nervous or any number of variables. I just mention it as a heads up on an otherwise nice job by Katie.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks all!!

I definitely need to practice more, with and without. And study the rules more.

Susan, thanks, I really appreciate that! Funny, a club member said the same thing about my abouts. I'd been doing them all with my legs apart and I'm trying to do them with my legs together now. So much to think about for my brain! Haha.

Thomas, I was thinking the same thing about her top line, especially in the running. I swear I can teach her to walk on two legs!

It's been a blast, and I really hope to do well with her. Thanks again all.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I think Katie is safe with picking her nose, without the dog breaking..
> 
> Is the dog even trained with hand signals? Have you seen lots of dogs breaking a SCH OB routine because of this?


I sure haven't Joby. If on the down out of motion, a dog breaks because the handler puts their hand up to brush the hair from their face, then the dog needs more training and proofing.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I think Katie is safe with picking her nose, without the dog breaking..
> 
> Is the dog even trained with hand signals? Have you seen lots of dogs breaking a SCH OB routine because of this?


I sure haven't Joby. The only hand signal in schH ob is for the send out. If during any other ob exercise a dog were to break because the handler put their hand up to brush the hair from their face, then the dog obviously needs more training and proofing.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Very nice Katie. HUGE improvement!!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I sure haven't Joby. The only hand signal in schH ob is for the send out. If during any other ob exercise a dog were to break because the handler put their hand up to brush the hair from their face, then the dog obviously needs more training and proofinge.


Well, since apparently you and Joby post perfect scores in obedience and have seen it all, I won't offer anymore friendly advice... :-s

If you count C phase as well, seems most handlers seem to use a hand signal for running the blinds along with the verbal cue.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> I know how difficult it is to walk in that kind of grass. I can tell you from personal experience, that the faster my own pace is with my dogs, the less they bounce. I find it helps to shorten my stride but pick up the pace in that kind of grass.


I was thinking a faster pace would help with the bounce but hadn't thought about the shorter stride. Also didn't realize the new rule that Thomas mentioned. I walk slow when I'm too busy thinking about every footstep and let alone counting. Susan how tall are you? At 5'4", I always think of myself as doing short strides, except when I'm maybe staying one pole ahead on the weave poles. I'll have to play with this with my corgi.

T


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Well, since apparently you and Joby post perfect scores in obedience and have seen it all, I won't offer anymore friendly advice... :-s
> 
> If you count C phase as well, seems most handlers seem to use a hand signal for running the blinds along with the verbal cue.


I don't know what your problem is ..*.. Do me a big favor and put me on your "ignore" list since apparently you are now taking everything I say personally.

We are talking about BH ob NOT prot (duh). I've never seen a dog who has already been trained directional blind searches being prepared for a BH, but then what do I know.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I was thinking a faster pace would help with the bounce but hadn't thought about the shorter stride. Also didn't realize the new rule that Thomas mentioned. I walk slow when I'm too busy thinking about every footstep and let alone counting. Susan how tall are you? At 5'4", I always think of myself as doing short strides, except when I'm maybe staying one pole ahead on the weave poles. I'll have to play with this with my corgi.
> 
> T


I am 5'6". Normally, when people try to walk faster, they take longer strides, and kind of look like they are lurching along, and it's harder for the dog to stay in position, but if you move faster without taking a longer stride it's actually easier for the dog to stay in position and is smoother.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I was thinking a faster pace would help with the bounce but hadn't thought about the shorter stride. Also didn't realize the new rule that Thomas mentioned. I walk slow when I'm too busy thinking about every footstep and let alone counting. Susan how tall are you? At 5'4", I always think of myself as doing short strides, except when I'm maybe staying one pole ahead on the weave poles. I'll have to play with this with my corgi.
> 
> T


I'm the same way, T. I have to count my steps and still remember what's what in the routine so it's hard for me to focus on my pace also. I'm 5'1" and she's as tall as a moose so we're an interesting bunch, lol


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Katie, most people are pulling their dogs through obedience. Your dog is pushing. If you speed up she is only going to move out faster and rock up more.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> I'm the same way, T. I have to count my steps and still remember what's what in the routine so it's hard for me to focus on my pace also. I'm 5'1" and she's as tall as a moose so we're an interesting bunch, lol


Katie,

I still count my paces and I've trialed 100 x 
Try a metronome to get a steady pace. I think you can get metronome apps for most smart phones or a small pocket metronome off of Ebay. Practice the pattern without the dog a couple of times too. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about the silly new steady top line rule. The dog has a natural style and I'd take a point or two loss for a dog with attitude that enjoys being out there.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Katie,
> 
> I still count my paces and I've trialed 100 x
> Try a metronome to get a steady pace. I think you can get metronome apps for most smart phones or a small pocket metronome off of Ebay. Practice the pattern without the dog a couple of times too. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about the silly new steady top line rule. The dog has a natural style and I'd take a point or two loss for a dog with attitude that enjoys being out there.


Yep, there are metronome apps. My son is a jazz trumpet player and has one on his phone as do most of the professionals. Are you a musician? Never thought about this with a dog--now you are getting deep.:smile:
Ditto about the bounce though--pick your battles and I agree, the dog is major flashy--don't want to confuse her and it may go away on its own with more mileage. 

T


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> I'm the same way, T. I have to count my steps and still remember what's what in the routine so it's hard for me to focus on my pace also. I'm 5'1" and she's as tall as a moose so we're an interesting bunch, lol


Okay, that's why the interference on the left side. My tallest has been 23-24 in and my current dog is only 12 inches so don't have to worry about it.

T


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Yep, there are metronome apps. My son is a jazz trumpet player and has one on his phone as do most of the professionals. Are you a musician? Never thought about this with a dog--now you are getting deep.:smile:
> Ditto about the bounce though--pick your battles and I agree, the dog is major flashy--don't want to confuse her and it may go away on its own with more mileage.
> 
> T



I read/heard about the metronome on a dog training video.
My mother was a singer with a couple of the Big Bands back in the 1940's. I didn't inherit any of her musical talent.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

She's looking good. Definitely BH ready 

I agree with letting her bounce, I like the attitude. I would try to minimize the bounce a little though in your transition to fast since she bounces so much she gets out of position. Also, do you give a heel command when you are doing a speed change? It's been a few years since I did a BH, but assuming it's still allowed that can cue her it's a speed change and not a stop, avoiding that heel sit heel motion she did when you went to the slow pace. You might also get rid of some of that "yahoo, we are going fast" bounce with a slightly smoother transition.

A couple of times when you were turning she let her rear end kind of lag so she wasn't straight anymore, is this normal or just a random "wonder why she did that" thing? I did see you correct her for it once and she straightened up, making me think it's something you've been working on. If so go to my Facebook and there is a video I put up working Ares on "tuck", just helps them be more rear end aware and helps with those turns and straight heel positions.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Ah, yeah, Danni is 25" tall at the shoulder. I hold my left arm stiff because it hits her in the face/head if I don't hold it out. I've never really trained with a ball under my arm, ever. It's always been in the bait bag. And the times I did train with a ball under my arm was maybe for a few sessions of teaching something.

I do say fuss when I change pace. I have practiced running in left circles with her and she doesn't bounce as much or forge I just need to do it more. As far as her butt sticking out, she's been doing that because she's crowding. I had fixed her crowding but when I started teaching the abouts she started back up again. Just another reason to heel around in left circles and make sharp left turns.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> Ah, yeah, Danni is 25" tall at the shoulder. I hold my left arm stiff because it hits her in the face/head .


I do the same thing, I try to swing my arms as normally as possible, but still hold my left arm slightly further away from my body and higher up than my right hand, (so the dog is next to me, but between my body and my arm, because otherwise if I held my arms as I do when I'm walking by myself, I'd be continually smacking my dog in the head/neck/ears with my left hand. Now that I think of it, I also hold my right arm a little further from my body then I would when walking by myself, so that both arms look kind of similar.
:lol::lol:


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> I do the same thing, I try to swing my arms as normally as possible, but still hold my left arm slightly further away from my body and higher up than my right hand, (so the dog is next to me, but between my body and my arm, because otherwise if I held my arms as I do when I'm walking by myself, I'd be continually smacking my dog in the head/neck/ears with my left hand. Now that I think of it, I also hold my right arm a little further from my body then I would when walking by myself, so that both arms look kind of similar.
> :lol::lol:


Exactly! It looks funny when I see it in a video but if I walk normally it's the same thing. And the poor dog just tries to heel anyways, lol


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> Exactly! It looks funny when I see it in a video but if I walk normally it's the same thing. And the poor dog just tries to heel anyways, lol


Katie

Look at the video about 1:28. You don't return to proper heel position (the dogs front leg parallel to yours). So he's out of position before you start heeling. Swinging your left arm/hand outside the dogs body may look strange BUT it gives you a change to "stroke him" occasionally (to remind him to stay back) Denise Fenzi also teaches her dogs to target her hand for heel position (which you gradually fade) but it could come in handy in the middle of a heeling pattern to get the dog back in position? The hand target is also used by a lot of Mondio Ring trainers who do contact heeling


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Do they point penalize for touching the dog?

T


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

No idea T, but I would think it could be considered handler help, praise, or correction?

Thomas, I come into basic with her right shoulder/leg. She's sitting crooked with her butt out, because she was crowding.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Do they point penalize for touching the dog?
> 
> T


They can but normally don't if you're not real blatant about it 
And of course they can't point it if they don't see it.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> No idea T, but I would think it could be considered handler help, praise, or correction?
> 
> Thomas, I come into basic with her right shoulder/leg. She's sitting crooked with her butt out, because she was crowding.


It might have been the angle of the video but it looked like you were 3-4 inches too far back?


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Her left leg is further out than her right. If you look past the left leg, you'll see the right one and that's the one I line up with.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> They can but normally don't if you're not real blatant about it
> And of course they can't point it if they don't see it.


Better yet Katie, continue to put in the hard work and dedication into your training and leave the cheating to those that need to do that to make up for deficiencies in their training and work ethic. 

Leave the cheats to those that need them.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> Better yet Katie, continue to put in the hard work and dedication into your training and leave the cheating to those that need to do that to make up for deficiencies in their training and work ethic.
> 
> Leave the cheats to those that need them.


Bite me Christopher,
All rules are subject to interpretation. It's called handling knowing what is allowed and what isn't. You could add value to the discussion instead you choose to make nothing but smart ass posts. I'm done with your snarky replies.
Good Luck to Katie.


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## Eric Hultgren (May 13, 2012)

Very cool watching you guys progress through some of your videos! Thanks for posting it.


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

I agree with Christopher. Your hard work will speak for itself come trial day and you’ll feel so much better about the results you get. Why get pissed off about people who don’t feel the need to cheat? That should be applauded.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Tracey Hughes said:


> I agree with Christopher. Your hard work will speak for itself come trial day and you’ll feel so much better about the results you get. Why get pissed off about people who don’t feel the need to cheat? That should be applauded.


My original reply was to Terrasita about getting pointed for "touching your dog". If you and/or Christopher consider touching your dog as "cheating". I call bull shit
If you're trying to tell me your dog heels in perfect position (never touched you on any turns) and your left hand has never touched the left or right side of your dog? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> My original reply was to Terrasita about getting pointed for "touching your dog". If you and/or Christopher consider touching your dog as "cheating". I call bull shit
> If you're trying to tell me your dog heels in perfect position (never touched you on any turns) and your left hand has never touched the left or right side of your dog? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Sure I have touched my dog with my left hand in a trial, but not on purpose and never as a way to influence my dog. And I sure as hell would not add it to my training regimen as a way to cover my laziness or training inabilities. 




> All rules are subject to interpretation. It's called handling knowing what is allowed and what isn't.


What a crock of shit. This is not about an interpretation or knowing what is allowed. This is about cheating. If it was not cheating then why would you say "...of course they can't point it if they don't see it." If it's not cheating then why say this? 

I could even understand if there was an insurmountable problem and you have to go to a cheat to make it through. But you are trying to teach a green handler that this is just part of the sport and is so OK that you can even add it to your training foundation. I think that's wrong. 

I would really hate to see Katie turn into one of those handlers that spend 50% of their time training their dog and the other 50% figuring out new ways to cheat, cherry picking judges and other nonsense. These are always the same people complaining about how the trial wasn't fair and lamenting how their dog has never done that before. If they just put 100% into training their dog they would always be a winner at some level.


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## john simmons (Jan 20, 2010)

Ditto Chris!


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