# Cesar Tables Dogs?!



## lannie dulin (Sep 4, 2012)

check out the video at 21:00. I knew when this dog bit him he was going to take it to his ranch and beat it down. What does a trainer like him need with a bite table?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpPNhjD7Mg4


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Don't know. I don't watch his show but has anyone seen him use it in an episode?


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## David Baker (Aug 31, 2013)

I think he tables dogs to provoke them to be aggressive so he can do his "voodoo" to break them of it. If you want to make a dog show aggression, put it on a table, to either shape and mold that aggression like we do, or to try and break them of it.

LoL, yall should check out the bit that Charlie Murphy does in his stand up about Cesar Milan. If you can't find it on youtube and you have a netflix account, find his stand up on there and ffwd to close to the end of it and thats where it is. I think its his last bit. Hilarious.


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## David Baker (Aug 31, 2013)

Here it is. LoL,

WARNING, SOME EXPLICIT LANGUAGE. If the mods have a problem with me posting this, im sorry and just remove the vid or delete this post.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pcouft2Qt8


edit: There is actually more but the video cuts it early. This is only about half the bit. The 2nd half is even funnier. You need to just watch it on netflix.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Yep, busted out laughing when you hear the closing. Thanx for posting.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i'm sure i've seen over a hundred episodes, but i've never seen him "fix" true DA on his own .....nice to be rich and have 50-60 dogs to help you out :roll:

i agree with a lot of things he does, but i also don't agree with a lot of his techniques, but if you think he doesn't have any dog sense, i wouldn't agree 

i think most people should be able see the bites coming before he gets nailed....i think he has Desensitized himself and relies too much on the power of his "positive (pack) thinking" 

his mantra about never watching the dog when you walk is rather ludicrous imo ... pretty hard for me to read a dog without looking at it ....then again, i've never seen him walk an aggressive dog in any heavy "people" traffic areas

made for prime time TV, "edited" reality //rotflmao//


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

I have always liked the guy and what he does. If I had half his dog sense I would probably be three times the handler I am.

I have seen him use the table on a fearful dog to desensatize it to aproaching humans, raised arms, sudden movements etc. He didnt beat it down..he fed it treats..lol.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i liked the CM parody on taming the aggressive granny MUCH MUCH better


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## lannie dulin (Sep 4, 2012)

Haz Othman said:


> I have always liked the guy and what he does. If I had half his dog sense I would probably be three times the handler I am.
> 
> I have seen him use the table on a fearful dog to desensatize it to aproaching humans, raised arms, sudden movements etc. He didnt beat it down..he fed it treats..lol.


Oh okay, I was wondering what a guy like him was doing with a table. I did get a good laugh when he said "I didn't see that coming" after he got bit. I was thinking "Really? Because I don't know that much about dogs, but I totally saw that coming". However, I didn't expect the dog to commit to the bite the way it did, lol. 

His most entertaining show by far.


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## lannie dulin (Sep 4, 2012)

David Baker said:


> Here it is. LoL,
> 
> WARNING, SOME EXPLICIT LANGUAGE. If the mods have a problem with me posting this, im sorry and just remove the vid or delete this post.
> 
> ...


LMAO!!! Made me laugh out load in the office and then I had to explain.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

lannie dulin said:


> check out the video at 21:00. I knew when this dog bit him he was going to take it to his ranch and beat it down. What does a trainer like him need with a bite table?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpPNhjD7Mg4


I have known Cesar for a long time. We used to train protection dogs with the table often. So maybe he knows more about the table and it's uses than you give him credit for.:-k


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

lannie dulin said:


> Oh okay, I was wondering what a guy like him was doing with a table. I did get a good laugh when he said "I didn't see that coming" after he got bit. I was thinking "Really? Because I don't know that much about dogs, but I totally saw that coming". However, I didn't expect the dog to commit to the bite the way it did, lol.
> 
> His most entertaining show by far.


This the one where the food aggressive lab bites his hand?

I had no idea Cesar ever did any bite work, what kind of trainer did you find him to be?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Haz Othman said:


> I have always liked the guy and what he does. If I had half his dog sense I would probably be three times the handler I am.


I've always liked him too.


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

Netflix no longer carries Charlie Murphy: I Will Not Apologize, But I found the Cesar Milan clip on Comedy Central - the bad words are beeped out.

http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/avp42j/live-at-gotham-the-dog-whisperer


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## David Baker (Aug 31, 2013)

Annamarie Somich said:


> Netflix no longer carries Charlie Murphy: I Will Not Apologize, But I found the Cesar Milan clip on Comedy Central - the bad words are beeped out.
> 
> http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/avp42j/live-at-gotham-the-dog-whisperer



bravo. Although, its way funnier unedited. LoL.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lannie, what kind of trainer is CM?

What is the scope of his work? 

What would you base your answers to these questions on? a TV show?


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

i have discovered this to be a very unpopular stance on this forum, but i really like Cesar Milan. i think he personally has done a lot to help Pit Bulls in both public perception--considering them more as individual dogs rather than a full-breed plague--and their redemption as a breed (which loves children and people just as fervently as Labradors do, in spite of the bulk of their being which is un-Labrador-like) meaning that their owners have become less despised as well. also, of course, he has helped individual dogs whose owners were at the short road to their wit's end, and that's nice too, isn't it? without his celebrity presence i do not believe that the Vick dogs would ever have seen a shelter, i think they all would have gone on the slab immediately, because the citizen outcry would have been so minute. i am also impressed by his humility regarding the uglier parts of his life, that he was so quick to be honest and offer up his embarrassing pathos because he got past it and could use it as fodder for helping others. i am also impressed that he never calls people who fail to walk their dogs AT ALL either lazy or stupid. that's just what i feel, but then again i don't know anything...


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## Guy Williams (Jun 26, 2012)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i have discovered this to be a very unpopular stance on this forum, but i really like Cesar Milan. i think he personally has done a lot to help Pit Bulls in both public perception--considering them more as individual dogs rather than a full-breed plague--and their redemption as a breed (which loves children and people just as fervently as Labradors do, in spite of the bulk of their being which is un-Labrador-like) meaning that their owners have become less despised as well. also, of course, he has helped individual dogs whose owners were at the short road to their wit's end, and that's nice too, isn't it? without his celebrity presence i do not believe that the Vick dogs would ever have seen a shelter, i think they all would have gone on the slab immediately, because the citizen outcry would have been so minute. i am also impressed by his humility regarding the uglier parts of his life, that he was so quick to be honest and offer up his embarrassing pathos because he got past it and could use it as fodder for helping others. i am also impressed that he never calls people who fail to walk their dogs AT ALL either lazy or stupid. that's just what i feel, but then again i don't know anything...


I think you're right. He has a lot of good qualities and has undoubtedly helped lots of dogs however he uses some very dangerous/outdated concepts that are based on bad science. 

If people kept in mind that he is entertainment not education it wouldn't be so bad but for many this is the only dog education they will get and it seems like a wasted opportunity to me.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Disclaimer .... I didn't go back and read every post. But I pretty much agree with Catherine.

"Back in the day," when he had no real business of his own, we'd car-pool down to SoCal to his informal seminars. 


IMO, he really understands dogs, he's a good guy, and he's smart. 

The Nat Geo program may not have done him favors every time, and yes, of course he has made mistakes, but I think the net result was positive.

It's JMHO, which I've mentioned a few times here and know how it will be received ..... but we all have an opinion, 
right? :grin:

I learned stuff from him that I am glad to have learned.





susan tuck said:


> I've always liked him too.


Me too.


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

South Park has a Cesar Millan show quite awhile back. It was funnier!
Denise king


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Denise King said:


> South Park has a Cesar Millan show quite awhile back. It was funnier!
> Denise king



I love that South Park episode. It's called _"Tsst"_... from 2010, I think.

One of my favorites. :lol:


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Guy Williams said:


> I think you're right. He has a lot of good qualities and has undoubtedly helped lots of dogs however he uses some very dangerous/outdated concepts that are based on bad science.
> 
> If people kept in mind that he is entertainment not education it wouldn't be so bad but for many this is the only dog education they will get and it seems like a wasted opportunity to me.


If you had a dog issue and needed help who would you go with? Cesar and his outdated techniques or Stillwell who is very in vogue and represents the oppsite end of the spectrum?
I know who I would pick every time.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i've seen lots of his shows and i've seen lots and lots of people who tell him they watch all his shows religiously and recite the mantra 

...then they bring out their pet who has been ruling over them...sometimes for YEARS ](*,)

- that tells me a lot about how well people can learn from watching someone else do something //rotflmao

as this pertains to me :

- i used to like being able to take someone's dog and make it down in a couple minutes after the owner told me their dog was too "stubborn" to lay down
- or grab their leash and walk their four legged freight train next to me
.... i finally matured a bit and canned a lot of my ego

now i can tell in about five minutes if someone really wants to teach their dog or if they just want to tell it to do something and correct it til it does. that is one of my gripes about using physical compulsion
- in the hands of an experienced trainer, it's fine
- as a first time system, or a "default" method it is stoopid and counter productive for a lot of people....imo

- people see things but don't always understand what they are seeing
what i use for an example : you don't train a dog with a leash even tho you use it a lot


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I love that South Park episode. It's called _"Tsst"_... from 2010, I think.
> 
> One of my favorites. :lol:


It's a classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Ftb9lMgiU
:lol:

Haz: Stillwell makes me sick, I can't watch her on TV for 2 minutes before I feel the need to throw something at her.
](*,)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> It's a classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Ftb9lMgiU
> :lol:
> 
> Haz: Stillwell makes me sick, I can't watch her on TV for 2 minutes before I feel the need to throw something at her.
> ](*,)



Ditto on Stillwell! Useless, misleading, tree hugging fluff.
I don't even try to watch her program. Once or twice was more then enough.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Nothing wrong with Cesar Milan in my book. I like what he does and what he shows, I like his point of view and how he goes about educating people on what a dog is and what it needs. People tend to talk down about him on this forum and at times I feel it is because they feel that since they are "Workingdog" people they must know best about everything dog in the world. Everyone makes mistakes, we all did it and still do it, only ours don't get measured out on NGC for the world to bitch about, his do... 

If not for him there would be a lot more stupid dog owners and dead Pits out there... Give the man credit where credit is due. He does the job and most of the time does it extremely well. Nothing wrong with his way of doing things at all....


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

what Alice said ....

plus 
he always refers to dominance and submission as the root of, and solution to most problems

when it is said that he "beats down" all the dogs he works..... to me that is implying he can't deal with a dog who has the dominance that some working dog people want to see and implies that the only good dog is a submissive dog

he certainly implies all owners should be dominant over their dog, but i don't recall him ever stating that dominance can ever be a good thing in a dog

has he ever worked with a psd handler that had problems ? i've never seen it if he has 
(link to that episode please)
.... it would be interesting to see how he applies his principles to that situation


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Rick I read a couple of his books where he gets into what he defines dominance and submission as. I think his personal definition of dominance is not what many percieve it as. 

I think a lot of us hear the word dominance and immidiately start getting negative inferences. I think if you replace the word dominance with leadership and submission with following the leader you will be a lot closer to what he is trying to get across. 

Even if you have a dominant dog you still need to be the leader.

Also, I would say the general pet owning public (which are his client base) are not interested in dealing with a high drive dominant dog. So toning one down such a dog would be a good thing if its nothing more then a pet.

PS Agree with everyone on the Stillwell comments. Its just mind numbing to watch the lengths she will go to in the simplest of cases to not correct the dog. How she ever got famous I have no idea. 
I think the UK is enamoured with the positive only behavior management techniques and she is a good mouth peice for that. Sounds good so it must be right....right?


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

I agree with the Stillwell comments. I have one of her disciples right here in my own neighborhood. Learned everything she knows directly from Stillwell. And she can barely control her own dog. A labradoodle. Yes she offers some very expensive classes.
And while i do not condone everything CM does i think he has done a ton of good to bring dog problems (And dog owner problems) to light and show that there is help to be had if you seek it.
I'm sure a lot of you have gotten an increase in business if your a for profit trainer because people have hope their dog's problem can be fixed. And not with a needle full of pink stuff.
He's not the holy grail, but he's not the devil either. 
I think the purely positive methods lack balance. There has to be a little bad in ever good or thing go wonky. I've seen the problems caused with just clicker and treats by some of the top "Purely Positive trainers" in my area. Things that can be fixed with the lightest of corrections. Maybe a Tssss!


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## lannie dulin (Sep 4, 2012)

Joby Becker said:


> Lannie, what kind of trainer is CM?
> 
> What is the scope of his work?
> 
> What would you base your answers to these questions on? a TV show?


I don't answer questions when someone answers my question with a question. If you got something to say then say it, don't play stupid games. Better yet, move along. I never want to see you on my threads anyway.


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## lannie dulin (Sep 4, 2012)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Disclaimer .... I didn't go back and read every post. But I pretty much agree with Catherine.
> 
> "Back in the day," when he had no real business of his own, we'd car-pool down to SoCal to his informal seminars.
> 
> ...


Net positive I can agree with that. Entertaining, no doubt. This show (at least the 1st 30min) had my attention. I think he did more harm than good to that lab the way he left it with the family for a month, but it was good TV.


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## lannie dulin (Sep 4, 2012)

Alice Bezemer said:


> ... Give the man credit where credit is due. He does the job and most of the time does it extremely well. Nothing wrong with his way of doing things at all....


He got his credit in the form of millions of dollars. I consider him well compensated for his efforts and putting up with people picking at him, lol. 

If someone wanted to follow me around the office and put it on tv and pay me millions (hell even hundreds of thousands), so people could pick at my work I'd be fine with it. (Although it would be boring tv for sure.)


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## lannie dulin (Sep 4, 2012)

rick smith said:


> what Alice said ....
> 
> plus
> he always refers to dominance and submission as the root of, and solution to most problems
> ...


Actually he does. Constantly says he wants dogs to be "calm and submissive". Not "calm and dominate".


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: Quote:
Originally Posted by rick smith 
what Alice said ....

plus 
he always refers to dominance and submission as the root of, and solution to most problems
-when it is said that he "beats down" all the dogs he works..... to me that is implying he can't deal with a dog who has the dominance that some working dog people want to see and implies that the only good dog is a submissive dog
-he certainly implies all owners should be dominant over their dog, but i don't recall him ever stating that dominance can ever be a good thing in a dog
-has he ever worked with a psd handler that had problems ? i've never seen it if he has 
(link to that episode please)
.... it would be interesting to see how he applies his principles to that situation
........................................................................................
Actually he does. Constantly says he wants dogs to be "calm and submissive". Not "calm and dominate".
........................................................................................

????
you copied my whole response but i don't understand what part of it you are referring to ....


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Caesar Milan started his career in pp


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Matt Vandart said:


> Caesar Milan started his career in pp


No he didn't. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

lannie dulin said:


> I don't answer questions when someone answers my question with a question. If you got something to say then say it, don't play stupid games. Better yet, move along. I never want to see you on my threads anyway.


Ok. you dont know shit about Cesar M., how he trains, or what kind of trainer he is, so why post about him in a derogatory way?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"No he didn't"_ _(start his career in pp)_


He started at a dog-grooming place. He was the one who groomed the "problem dogs." He was a dog-walker too.

In the mid 90s when he was working as a limo driver, he met his first high-profile client (Will Smith).

Started doing smallish seminars in the 90s.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Hey, now! There's nothing wrong with hugging trees! Sometimes you have to show them who's pack leader.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Hey, now! There's nothing wrong with hugging trees! Sometimes you have to show them who's pack leader.



?

I missed something ....


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

lannie dulin said:


> I don't answer questions when someone answers my question with a question. If you got something to say then say it, don't play stupid games. Better yet, move along. I never want to see you on my threads anyway.


HEY......TSSSSSSSSSSST!! :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> HEY......TSSSSSSSSSSST!! :lol:


That's just funny.


:lol:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Matt Vandart said:


> Caesar Milan started his career in pp


dog grooming doesn't count


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Matt Vandart said:


> dog grooming doesn't count


It counts if you consider "personal protection" having to protection yourself from a nasty little ankle biter. Instead of having a dog to protect you? ;-)


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

ha! lol


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## Guy Williams (Jun 26, 2012)

Haz Othman said:


> If you had a dog issue and needed help who would you go with? Cesar and his outdated techniques or Stillwell who is very in vogue and represents the oppsite end of the spectrum?
> I know who I would pick every time.


I doubt I could afford either of their hourly rates!:-({|=

I would choose a professional dog trainer with an education and proven track record, not a tv entertainer!

I would pick their love child - Caesars personality with her ideology!!


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## David Windmueller (Nov 4, 2013)

rick smith said:


> what Alice said ....
> 
> plus
> he always refers to dominance and submission as the root of, and solution to most problems
> ...





Matt Vandart said:


> *Caesar Milan started his career in pp.*


Just thought I would add some info to this thread about CM and PP. I was going through my DVR and watched an episode where he was teaching a horse trainer lady how to keep her Rottie from spooking the horses while in the corral. 

CM brought in Daddy to help with the training and got the desired result. However, once the horse trainer used her whip, Daddy sprung up from laying down and started barking. CM had to start calming Daddy and then he explained that Daddy was trained as a personal protection dog for his family and that the whip was a training tool Daddy was used to reacting too during PP training.

I also remember seeing a picture of a much younger CM agitating a GSD (I think) on a table, it may be from one of his books. His critics used the photo to show that he was a cruel dog person.


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## Tony Hahn (May 28, 2011)

Here is the episode David is referring. Scroll to 27.30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55jKoaK3NeI&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## David Windmueller (Nov 4, 2013)

That was the episode. Thanks Tony.


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