# Video for Jeff O.



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

OK. Here's Nikko on the bite jacket for the first time. I dedicate this to Jeff O because it's one of those that aren't doctored to make the dog look good. The training is only so-so, and the enviroment sucks. This was the only opportunity I had so I took it.

So Jeff....Here's your raw truth in video.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Love the truthful videos.....Thanks Howard. 

We all know that our training is not perfect all of the time, so it is great when people post the stuff that is not the best. 
For me, it lets me know that I am not the only one who has "bad" days, or not so great training all of the time. And it makes for better learning as well.....IMO. 

I can watch the "good stuff" and say "I want a dog like that" but these kinds of videos let you know what you have to do to get there. 

Wish more people would post stuff like this!!! 

Plus, I really like that DOG!!!


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Howard, if pups were perfect we couldn't afford them  :wink: Thanks for sharing the video. 

Nikko is in capable hands....please keep those videos coming.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thanks. I'm uploading a video from today on the object guard. I'll post it in a bit. Pup was hot and tired (bad trainer!) and I hadn't done the exercise in about a month. He still didn't do too bad given that I'm working on a multitude of disciplines. 

I did the OG just for fun, bonding and control work. I don't plan to take it any further than whats in the video.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Object Guard....


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Howard,
Go easy on the control and the bitework with him for now, all I need him to do is be heavily exposed to environmental conditions and build his retrieve drive up. the only thinkg that really matters to me is how well he will retrieve and hunt, and how solid his nerves are. 
He is pretty noisy in the bitework and not very calm there. I would like to see him doing only retrieve work for now.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thanks Mike. His prey drive is off the hook...the hunt drive is a bit low for my liking. I work on it at least once a day but he regularly gets distracted after searching for about a minute. Same with the tracking; he's hot out of the gate but gets distracted. Hopefully he'll search better as he grows.

Was in Orlando with some handlers last week. Took the opportunity to get some socialization in. Nikko rode great in the back of the truck with my friends' retired PSD kenneled next to him. They even had physical contact later in the evening with no issues. He stayed pretty calm around the other PSDs which made me very happy.

He's already found out what cats are about.:mrgreen: Still not a fan of them though.

Got kicked out of Home Depot last month cause I had him on a flat collar and he was being an ass. A properly sized pinch on the dead ring fixed that. No corrections were made with the pinch...it is just enough to keep him from dragging me around.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> I dedicate this to Jeff O


Don't cast your pearls, Howard. For some this board isn't about learning and sharing, it's about the social clique here and about being right, no matter what you or anyone else says or demonstrates. 

On another note, I thought this board was moderated. When posters offer opinions and are then on the receiving end of hate-filled diatribes and called "dipshits" and "*******" by the afore-mentioned individual, it would seem to me that either this board is _not_ moderated or that all standards of decorum were flushed down the toilet.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I appreciate the video too, Howard!


Didn't see the diatribe, but a PM will get offensive posts modited.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I appreciate the video too, Howard!
> 
> 
> Didn't see the diatribe, but a PM will get offensive posts modited.


There isn't a current diatribe Connie! Unless he's trying to start one?! :-\" He's going off the MOAT's (mother of all threads) months ago. Geez, he should pull up his big boy panties and get over it ](*,)


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Do you need something special to see those photobucket vids ?

I can't click on them, I even joined the site but it still doesn't work.. I need clicker training.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Here's the links Gerry.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ew&current=NikkoJacket2010_03_23_20_18_53.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...rrent=NikkoObjectGuard2010_03_24_12_18_10.flv

Hope that works?!


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

You must have forgot your secret de-coder ring Gerry


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Content removed. Added nothing of significant value to this thread.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

[:roll::roll::roll:....I would refer you to Bob Scott's signature...

BTW how old is this dog


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

So get some thick skin and get over it, or GTFO? Nope, not standing up for Jeff O, he's been a "meanie" to me before, but for the life of me can't remember what it was over - I obviously care.

Take the good with the bad and don't get you panties in a twist...there's instructions on how to ignore people on here somewhere if you're truly that offended.

Ok, back on track, granted I know nothing but I think it was good to see the video and I appreciated it for what it was...training.  Seeing all the youtube videos of these "perfect" dogs gets old, and you don't learn as much from them as someone does posting an amateur video and getting tips, pointers, criticism, constructive criticism, etc.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> So get some thick skin and get over it, or GTFO? Nope, not standing up for Jeff O, he's been a "meanie" to me before, but for the life of me can't remember what it was over - I obviously care.
> 
> Take the good with the bad and don't get you panties in a twist...there's instructions on how to ignore people on here somewhere if you're truly that offended.
> 
> Ok, back on track, granted I know nothing but I think it was good to see the video and I appreciated it for what it was...training.  Seeing all the youtube videos of these "perfect" dogs gets old, and you don't learn as much from them as someone does posting an amateur video and getting tips, pointers, criticism, constructive criticism, etc.


It is not a question of thick skin or not, it is just common courtesty, do you parents teach you that it is ok to call people name if you don't agree with you? if my kids talk like that I would slap them up the side of their head in a heartbeat. Back when I was in school if I ever talk back to my teacher I would get some ass whooping, now a day a teacher would get sued and get fired if he touches a hair on a punk kid, wtf?


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> Howard,
> Go easy on the control and the bitework with him for now, all I need him to do is be heavily exposed to environmental conditions and build his retrieve drive up. the only thinkg that really matters to me is how well he will retrieve and hunt, and how solid his nerves are.
> He is pretty noisy in the bitework and not very calm there. I would like to see him doing only retrieve work for now.


Yeah he is quite noisy from the stress, I think the decoy needs to be less frontal, less pressure and stand up and move back more to calm him down a little so he can enjoy the bitework.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Khoi Pham said:


> Yeah he is quite noisy from the stress, I think the decoy needs to be less frontal, less pressure and stand up and move back more to calm him down a little so he can enjoy the bitework.


Good assessment, and what Mike said


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks for the video Howard! 
That IS what this post is about.........isn't it? :grin: :wink:


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I sure hope so. But it seems we got a few dry humpers on the sidelines who dropped in to visit.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> I sure hope so. But it seems we got a few dry humpers on the sidelines who dropped in to visit.


Another classy post. 

In any event, it seems clear that anything goes and nothing is out of bounds with regard to civility toward other posters. Nice job folks.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Patrick Murray said:


> Another classy post.
> 
> In any event, it seems clear that anything goes and nothing is out of bounds with regard to civility toward other posters. Nice job folks.


(takes a bow). So what, were you lurking along the weed bank waiting for someone to post something contrary to what you feel the current situation to be? I doubt anyone gives a shit about the imaginary scorecard you appear to be keeping here. Might it be a safe guess to assume you gave me an "F"?

Classy post? Does that mean you took issue with something I said? Oh, yea that's right it didn't agree with what you had to say. The dry humping comment was an analogy for someone who appears to have a hard on for Jeff. Sounds to me like the shoe fits pretty well, even without socks. Too bad if you didn't approve of that. Oh and by the way this thread was for Jeff, not you.

If you want something more civil might I suggest you post something relevant in the conflict free zone. [-o<


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...ease-read-forum-guidelines-12-20-2006-a-1942/

*EVERYBODY PLEASE READ: Forum Guidelines...12/20/2006* 

*3. This is an all-ages site.
*We want young people here, we want all folks to be able to enjoy this place as much as possible. Be respectful of as many different perspectives as you're able. 

*9. No personal attacks, threats, or insults.
*If you cannot say it in polite company, don't. People should be able to come here and post without feeling like they will be attacked. Keep in mind that real names, real careers, real training experience, and real locations are posted here...it is quite easy for someone to feel very threatened by what you say. So think twice, post once.


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## Josh Smith (Jan 14, 2009)

So... back to what is interesting. Howard nice videos! How old is nikko and what lines is he out of? He looks just like my dutchie that I got from mike as well. I am about to fit her with a pinch collar and work on her leash manners using the technique that Mike Ellis talks about. 

anyways, please people, keep it on topic cause this is an interesting thread!


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Nice pup Howard. how old is the little guy?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nikko is 6 months old. He's from Mike's Arko X Jenna breeding last year.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Posts that aren't about the O.P. will lock this thread, which is a worthwhile one (thank you, Howard).

All comments are being taken under advisement., and thank you for them. But complaints about other threads (old or not) don't belong in this one. Thanks!


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2010)

I'd like to offer an observation. Howard, in your object guard vid, there is a slight but significant problem with your timing on the marker. You are offering the treat and marker "yes" simultaneously. It should be "yes" -pause- treat+move. It is a subtle thing but very important that you do not offer the reinforcer before or during your TB but immediately after. It would also help if you moved your dog off the object after each TB with the reinforcer and then get him re-situated, behavior, IB, TB, Reinforcer + movement. Stay dynamic to put energy into your dog. Yes, it would be better if your dog were not worn out before your training but if you use movement to stimulate drive, even a tired dog should be able to be reengaged for just enough time to get a successful energetic ending. 

This would apply to all your positional training in general as well.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Josh Smith said:


> So... back to what is interesting. Howard nice videos! How old is nikko and what lines is he out of? He looks just like my dutchie that I got from mike as well. I am about to fit her with a pinch collar and work on her leash manners using the technique that Mike Ellis talks about.


 As a rule I normally would not use a pinch on a dog this young. Rules are bent and broken of course. The prong had an instant effect and it is so much nicer to have him out and about and show good manners. The only correction he might recieve is when I suddenly stop when he starts going ADD on me while we're out. He instantly stops pulling and usually sits and looks up at me with that WTF stare. 

The majority of the time he is on the flat collar though. In comparison...RJ, my GSD didn't have a pinch put on him until he turned 2 years old.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Hi Howard:
What type of prep work did you do before putting him on a suit? Just curious about his training up until the point of the video.

Thanks.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Vin,

You are 100% correct. When initially doing the training that is what I did. He picked it up really quick. The video was shot in haste, and of course there were errors on my part do to trying to go too fast. To continue to reward with the mark will have him breaking on the mark later.

Thank you for the critique. At the end of the video you can see that I was directing him back to the object but the tape ran out. When we did it on a regular basis he would run right back to the bowl on the "Guard" command. Lack of training will result in poor performance as can be seen. I like doing this exercise because of the interaction, focus and bonding that occurs.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Hi Howard:
> What type of prep work did you do before putting him on a suit? Just curious about his training up until the point of the video.
> 
> Thanks.


 Tie outs with rag and water bottle with stones in it on flirt pole.
Tie outs with 1 gallon milk jug on a rope.
Tie outs with puppy tug
Loose dog with flirt pole and different lure types.
Heavy cloth gauntlet tug work for grip.
Tie out with puppy sleeve.
Spring pole with gauntlet, then puppy sleeve.

Everything that could have went wrong in the video, went wrong. Wrong suit, first time decoy, flashing light at night, new location. Its a visual reminder of what not to do, thats why I posted it. 

My mistake is pushing too hard. Time to back up a few steps and set up the training for the dog to win. Live and learn.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

I think it would be cool to see a video of him doing some of the stuff you listed above, or when you're ready to work him on the suit again.

I probably have hours of video of me demonstrating things going wrong or what not to do. :smile:


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## Josh Smith (Jan 14, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> As a rule I normally would not use a pinch on a dog this young. Rules are bent and broken of course. The prong had an instant effect and it is so much nicer to have him out and about and show good manners. The only correction he might recieve is when I suddenly stop when he starts going ADD on me while we're out. He instantly stops pulling and usually sits and looks up at me with that WTF stare.
> 
> The majority of the time he is on the flat collar though. In comparison...RJ, my GSD didn't have a pinch put on him until he turned 2 years old.



I wasn't talking about using a pinch collar for general use. Michael ellis talks about using pinch collars on younger dogs in very short training sessions specifically designed to introduce the dog gently to physical corrections while teaching them how to respond to the leash. I use the flat collar 99% of the time now anyways. Hopefully the pinch collar sessions will reduce her need to pull and go ADD as you say.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Tie outs with rag and water bottle with stones in it on flirt pole.
> Tie outs with 1 gallon milk jug on a rope.
> Tie outs with puppy tug
> Loose dog with flirt pole and different lure types.
> ...


Howard,

The old saying is "the first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one" 
I would NOT have done the first session on the suit at night with the flash light distraction. If you're going to do NVBK style bite placements then you need a decoy that knows what
they're doing and you need to NOT let the dog shift his grip to the wrist. I think six months old is too young to be on a bite suit. I'd be on a jambierre doing bite placement on 
both legs and both biceps. I'm not sure what you were doing
with the object guard video. I'd work on the dog keeping his feet on the object and rotating in place following the decoy.
I don't understand why you'd want the dog to bark or why
you'd be doing changes of position on the object.
Nikki looks like he has a lot of potential IF you don't push him too hard and burn him out, but you already know that?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Howard,
> I'm not sure what you were doing
> with the object guard video. I'd work on the dog keeping his feet on the object and rotating in place following the decoy.
> I don't understand why you'd want the dog to bark or why



Thomas,

The OG was just a fun type of thing. I'd like this dog to be a PSD so the OG training is not serious, it was just a positional and OB drill for the most part. I don't want a patrol dog to have a ferocious OG in its' repetroir due to safety reasons; so that is why it's not even near sport quality.

Teaching a dog to bark is never a bad thing. It will be used later in manwork training and real street applications. He was doing very well so far that I made the mistake of trying to do too much too soon. Lesson learned. It was a bad call on my part to even attempt what's on the video, there's no denying that. I'm still trying to guage my training to the maturity level of this breed.


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## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

I have to say i liekd both videos. This is a pup and learning.... I liked the way, the situations were handled... It takes a good handler to direct and help a dog along when the conditions aren't ideal. Most important is that the dogs goes out successful and the handlers/trainers can see what needs worked on. This is exactly why I keep making videos of training. And I am not just posting good ones either. Thank you for posting tis video. I like seeing things when they are not perfect and especially how one handles situations and conditions that aren't perfect!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

It certainly offers an appreciable perspective on how development can look along the way. The discussion that follows videos like these are always highly informative. I'm hoping we see more in the weeks to come of his progress.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Vin,
> 
> You are 100% correct. When initially doing the training that is what I did. He picked it up really quick. The video was shot in haste, and of course there were errors on my part do to trying to go too fast. To continue to reward with the mark will have him breaking on the mark later.
> 
> Thank you for the critique. At the end of the video you can see that I was directing him back to the object but the tape ran out. When we did it on a regular basis he would run right back to the bowl on the "Guard" command. Lack of training will result in poor performance as can be seen. I like doing this exercise because of the interaction, focus and bonding that occurs.


=D>


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