# 100% proof poison training



## eugene ramirez

How do you train your dog to be 100% poisoned proof against all attempts? I have tried to look for previews post regarding this topic here on PP dogs, and at Police and Military dogs section, but found none. I have heard and read different theories on the subject. My personal experience is only with training sport(MR) style poison proofing. I am not saying it is bad way to do it, or that it does not work.

I'm just not sure how effective it is. This has been a concern since at night my two dogs patrol the grounds. The fence is concrete and secure, however, anyone can just throw something easily. We do make sure to feed at evening time, so they are full, but they have not been proof.

Can someone please give some input? thank you


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## Howard Gaines III

My guess is that only death on this earth is 100%.


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## maggie fraser

My guess is that Howard is right.


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## Mike Valente

Ecollar,you mentioned the main scenario, so start there, with strangers tossing food in.
Temp them, then shock them for even thinking about touching it but obviously when actually touching it, from a hidden location. Considering the potential outcome of poison, even if apposed to the ecollar, for this instance the benefits far out weigh any humane concerns if you have any.
Not saying its 100% but should push the numbers in your favor greatly, if they have never used the ecollar then it should have an even greater effect because of its specific use for this purpose. Then the more you reinforce it the better, it's worth doing at least once a month or more for maintenance for the rest of their lives if its of concern as a possibility of occurring.


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## Lamar Blackmor

why no giv the key to the gun shae to a curiou teen ager who nare shoot a gun before/ an tell he to go for.


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## Kevin Connell JR

Just an idea! This old school trainer I know said that for his "Junkyard" dogs he trained for car dealerships, he made or had some type of device that ran off a 9-volt battery and had a small nail. He'd put it in some meat around and have someone throw it to the dog or just leave it around. If the dog goes up to smell, baaaazzzzoooww, the dog gets shocked on the nose. He said, "It teaches them not to screw with shit on the ground". He said he's only had one dog poisoned, they mixed a broken glass bottle with hamburger meat. Don't know if that dog was trained with the shocker or not.


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## Timothy Saunders

Kevin Connell JR said:


> Just an idea! This old school trainer I know said that for his "Junkyard" dogs he trained for car dealerships, he made or had some type of device that ran off a 9-volt battery and had a small nail. He'd put it in some meat around and have someone throw it to the dog or just leave it around. If the dog goes up to smell, baaaazzzzoooww, the dog gets shocked on the nose. He said, "It teaches them not to screw with shit on the ground". He said he's only had one dog poisoned, they mixed a broken glass bottle with hamburger meat. Don't know if that dog was trained with the shocker or not.


In tractor supply they have a fence charger that can work the same way. more than 9volts though:lol:


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## Adam Rawlings

Kevin,

That method is old school, it's straight out of the Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training. It probably still works well though.


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## julie allen

I don't have any advice, but I did lose a GSD to the meter reader guy who poisoned like 60 dogs at least within a week using Phorate in hamburger meat. Really sucked. It can be absorbed too, good thing no small kids picked the mess up.


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## Joby Becker

car battery, fence charger...toy train transformer, slot car transformer.


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## eugene ramirez

Howard Gaines III said:


> My guess is that only death on this earth is 100%.





maggie fraser said:


> My guess is that Howard is right.


Yes, death and taxes.


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## David Frost

Granted, I don't know all that much about PPD's, I do have a fair amount of experience with PSD's. I tell any handler that will listen, at any time, there is NO such thing as the perfect dog. So in essence, I agree with Howard as well.

DFrost


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## Ricardo Ashton

The general idea of the Koehler method is to make the dog think eating from the ground is painful. To do this effectively the correction must be timed so that exactly as he touches the food, he gets a massive pain in the mouth/teeth/tongue. I've used the ecollar and 2 very thin long wires to teach this. Worked perfectly cuz i could set up food in various positions & watch from concealment to send current just before he picks up the food.It also helps if you can have someone slip food thru or over the fence with the ecollar leads attached to mimic real scenarios(help the dog realise on his own to distrust food found lying around on the ground.) 

If you want to poison proof, thats your choice, but be advised that its not something you train & then dont follow up on. Regular trials need to be done at least monthly after he's learned not to eat off the ground.
BTW, better results to teach this to puppies than older dogs who already have developed a scavenger habit.


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## Bob Scott

Nothing is 100%. Not even "will my dog sit when I tell it to?!


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## Howard Gaines III

It goes back to anything...wanting 100% is a wish and only a wish.
While you have 80% which is good and you're crying about the 20% you don't have.
Like anything in life, we want MORE and the truth is that if you can handle the 80 or even 90%, why not be satisfied? I had a GSD years ago which was close to 100% PP. She had too many physical issues and had to go...back to the 80/20 mode!:-k


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## Patrick Murray

julie allen said:


> I don't have any advice, but I did lose a GSD to the meter reader guy who poisoned like 60 dogs at least within a week using Phorate in hamburger meat. Really sucked. It can be absorbed too, good thing no small kids picked the mess up.


That's horrible. When did this happen and where? Details please. I hope the meter reader got the same medicine in return.


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## julie allen

Carroll County TN. Been about 7 years ago. He killed any dog on his route, then went other areas. Even tossed the stuff in backyards no where near his route, poisoned several from humane society and even little house dogs. I had three poisoned. The male GSD died, luckily I saw him staggering in the yard, rushed to vet, and he smelled it right off. We went straight home with atropine and found the other GSD female seizing and our old mutt was bad off. The atropine worked for them. The guess was more than 120 dogs, but not everyone brought them in, had necropsy, or even reported until after the fact. The only thing he got was fired after the whole county threw a major fit. Then word came out about him beating a daschund with a bat, that was reported to the electric company a few years before. He had some fines, but you can't get blood from a turnip, right.


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## Joby Becker

julie allen said:


> Carroll County TN. Been about 7 years ago. He killed any dog on his route, then went other areas. Even tossed the stuff in backyards no where near his route, poisoned several from humane society and even little house dogs. I had three poisoned. The male GSD died, luckily I saw him staggering in the yard, rushed to vet, and he smelled it right off. We went straight home with atropine and found the other GSD female seizing and our old mutt was bad off. The atropine worked for them. The guess was more than 120 dogs, but not everyone brought them in, had necropsy, or even reported until after the fact. The only thing he got was fired after the whole county threw a major fit. Then word came out about him beating a daschund with a bat, that was reported to the electric company a few years before. He had some fines, but you can't get blood from a turnip, right.


luckily for him nobody shot his ass...


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## eugene ramirez

Ricardo Ashton said:


> The general idea of the Koehler method is to make the dog think eating from the ground is painful. To do this effectively the correction must be timed so that exactly as he touches the food, he gets a massive pain in the mouth/teeth/tongue. I've used the ecollar and 2 very thin long wires to teach this. Worked perfectly cuz i could set up food in various positions & watch from concealment to send current just before he picks up the food.It also helps if you can have someone slip food thru or over the fence with the ecollar leads attached to mimic real scenarios(help the dog realise on his own to distrust food found lying around on the ground.)
> 
> If you want to poison proof, thats your choice, but be advised that its not something you train & then dont follow up on. Regular trials need to be done at least monthly after he's learned not to eat off the ground.
> BTW, better results to teach this to puppies than older dogs who already have developed a scavenger habit.


thanks for your input. I have trained a little with ecollar. He will not touch anything if I am there, but have not completed the training yet. I guess the regular follow up is what I need to maintain.


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## Joby Becker

eugene ramirez said:


> thanks for your input. I have trained a little with ecollar. He will not touch anything if I am there, but have not completed the training yet. I guess the regular follow up is what I need to maintain.


you understand that wires are hooked up to the ecollar and inserted into the food, for that method..correct? important in my opinion if trying to poison proof a dog is also to only feed dog out of his BOWL and nowhere else...teach dog only place to eat, is out of his bowl....


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## eugene ramirez

Joby Becker said:


> you understand that wires are hooked up to the ecollar and inserted into the food, for that method..correct? important in my opinion if trying to poison proof a dog is also to only feed dog out of his BOWL and nowhere else...teach dog only place to eat, is out of his bowl....


The part about only eating out of his own bowl is a done deal. But no I did not know that the ecollar was used in that way. I thought you would just correct the dog if he went anywhere near the fake bait/pioson. Thank you for clarifying.


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## Joby Becker

eugene ramirez said:


> The part about only eating out of his own bowl is a done deal. But no I did not know that the ecollar was used in that way. I thought you would just correct the dog if he went anywhere near the fake bait/pioson. Thank you for clarifying.


was not sure if you got that...

it is effective, but is an extreme method, can cause some superstition problems with some dogs...


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