# Wired Wrong



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Ever have a PPD go wrong and attack the owner?#-o


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Ever have a PPD go wrong and attack the owner?#-o



Or we can expand on this question and ask, 

Anyone ever had a dog that WAS wired wrong, in a sense that the dog was a time bomb waiting to go off?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

The question works for me...well? :-o


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> The question works for me...well? :-o


I am not talking about just handler aggression, but rather dogs that might be labeled sharp/reactive, but are really extreme about it. Therefore, ANY minor mistake on the handlers part results in a severe bite, and the handler having to correct the dog for this pretty much on a daily basis.....


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Carol Boche said:


> Anyone ever had a dog that WAS wired wrong, in a sense that the dog was a time bomb waiting to go off?


Yes.


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

I was @ the vet recently. The man in charge of the k9's for a for a very large Texas police agency was in there ahead of me. Part of his ear was missing.One of his dogs got him.My vet asked why the dog bit him.His response was "he don't like people"!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

How do you determine if the dog was wired wrong or just crap training, lack of true leadership? Those have to come in play to make a decision.


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

I don't know, so it could have been poor training. I would give him credibility though cause he was head of k9's for houston police per my vet.At any rate it seems the dog would qualify per the question,'wired wrong or time bomb".


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> How do you determine if the dog was wired wrong or just crap training, lack of true leadership? Those have to come in play to make a decision.


Totally agree....and I am not discarding that at all.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob this is something that I have thought about for some time. Mine are as nice as the owner...[-X 
But how do or can you tell and at what point does the issue of early misconduct or training cause it...or just bad genetics? Seldom does it happen that two folks with 65 IQs produce someone with an IQ off the charts. With dogs, I teated one this morning for OB, and it was a nerve bag from hell. Told the woman I didn't need the money or need to work with it. Too many issues for me!!!!!!!!!!!!! And it was a mixed Lab/Shepherd/?


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I know that A LOT of the dogs deemed "wired wrong" are most likely a product of improper handling. 

But I also believe that when breeding high drive dogs (or other dogs too) that there is always the chance of getting a dog that is just 
"not right". 

Absolutely NOT the breeder or the handlers fault, it happens. We know it does. 

Can't give percentages here, but will guess that improper handling is way higher than producing a "bad seed".


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Carol Boche said:


> I know that A LOT of the dogs deemed "wired wrong" are most likely a product of improper handling.
> 
> But I also believe that when breeding high drive dogs (or other dogs too) that there is always the chance of getting a dog that is just
> "not right".
> ...


Nice point Carol! If breeders were to put some time into making a better product and less interest put to the dollar, I think many of the working lines animals we see would shift back to a more biddable state. Too often weak handlers are screwing up nice drive dogs. Just too many things in this "soup" to look at...


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Nice point Carol! If breeders were to put some time into making a better product


I agree, however that was not really what I meant. 

I was thinking that breeders who breed nice working dogs can sometimes end up with one dog in a litter that is just not right. The other pups go on to be good dogs. 

I am not sure that it would fall into the genetic category, but rather, something went wrong in the pup as it formed and grew before whelping.....


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i've had to deal w/ 3 or 4 dogs that were wired wrong, whether due to genetics or poor training, IDK. i DO know that the dogs that are just going to bite you give off weird vibes--it's part body language, but not all (i think). i know of at least 2 that gave no overt signs of being ready to bite, but they both definitely would bite with no forewarning.

as i think about it, that's body language in a way. they weren't aggressive, they weren't obviously fear-biters, they didn't do the "dominant" stare....IDK how to explain it really. obviously. oh well, JME


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I believe that 95% of "handler aggressive" dogs are created by excessive or just plain crappy corrections. 
A strong dog can resent excessive or poor corrections. Even a weak dog can get to the stress point of bitting the handler over to much put on it. Are either of these truely "handler aggressive"? 
Don't ask me to quote where I got those stats. It's just what I've go in my head. :-o #-o 
Howard I would think you would have to spend lots of time with these people and the dog to get an assessment on what's really going on. What they "tell" you, intended or not, could very well be incorrect.
To much of "my dog is very dominant" BS is often just a dog that has been alowed to run things with no leadership from the owners.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob I agree. I remember getting a Border Collie from a breeder in Maryland. Understand, this person is held as being VERY good and knowledgeable. When I go the dog home, flags and whistles started going off...JUNK!

I took her back to the breeder and explained what I was seeing in the animal and asked, "How many other puppies have done this and come back?" The reply, "Several." As most here know, buying a puppy is a gamble, but it is also something I enjoy working with and watching grow. And if all else fails, a good reason to drink!!!:^o


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

I have seen more than one herder climb a leash and go towards their owner. I can't say if it the dog was to blame or if the owner was to blame, but personally...I would suspect both were to blame.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Throwing something out...


I had a discussion with someone way more knowlegeable than me about theoretically breeding a dog we both knew. It was a while ago, so details a bit fuzzy, but essentially... 

The dog was very handler aggressive and possibly a bit unstable, though whether that was a result of genetics or bad training or handling (been through a couple of handlers, I think), or both, I'm not sure. There may have been a bit of instability in some of the siblings, too. I couldn't understand why anyone would even consider breeding a dog like this. What I was told was that someone might breed him in the hopes of getting a really tough, really extreme puppy out of the litter, as that was in this dog's lines as well.

All good, I suppose, except for all the other puppies in the litter, who lose that genetic lottery and come out nuts.


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