# gun noises and working dogs



## John Michaels (Oct 15, 2014)

Questions:

2) What is the best way to aclimatize a 6 month old dog to the sound of gunfire and how to get him desenthised to it.

3) Since dogs hearing is way more sensitive to sounds than the human ear, and we wear earpro at the range; what are your thoughts on K-9 earpro (pros and cons)? And if getting doggie earmuffs which do you recommend? ie. "mutt muffs"


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Have someone fire rounds at a bit of a distance and bring it in closer, maybe work the dog in something. Some dogs will never be good around it some could careless from day one. 

Be interesting to hear what others will say about ears. Some say the dog is pretty protected folding their ears down themselves. I would think it has to help a got bit, maybe filtering the damaging range out?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I've never had a dog senstive to gun fire. My husband is a sportsman, who belongs to gun clubs, so I've just always walked my pups around gun club parking lots during shooting events/practices.

That said, I do have a friend who's dog was becoming sensitive to gunfire. I think the reason is that one time when her young dog was doing a long down when the gun was fired, her dog sat up. Not long after, it started to become an issue, but I think it was because my friends anxiety was so high, her dog was really bonded and keyed in to her, she was so sure the dog would spook, it started to become a self fulfilling prophecy. 

So I started meeting her at a gun club parking lot, at first had her leave the dog in the crate in the car, got her talking about something else, when I could see she was relaxed, I suggested she get her dog out of the car, and walk him around on a loose line while the two of us just shot the breeze, walked and talked. He relaxed, she relaxed. Pretty soon she would meet me there for lunch, we would have sammiches from Subway while her dog was doing a long down. 

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Well said, Susan. 

I would add, be aware of what immediately follows the gunshot. A bite, a correction, etc. Don't want the gunfire to startlee or stimulate the dog on future gunshots after a negative experience.

As far as Ear pro, I used a gaiter and cotton balls with one dog. Never for gunfire, though.

Think "expose to gunfire" vs. desensitize. Like Chris said, it may not be an issue with some dogs. 



susan tuck said:


> I've never had a dog senstive to gun fire. My husband is a sportsman, who belongs to gun clubs, so I've just always walked my pups around gun club parking lots during shooting events/practices.
> 
> That said, I do have a friend who's dog was becoming sensitive to gunfire. I think the reason is that one time when her young dog was doing a long down when the gun was fired, her dog sat up. Not long after, it started to become an issue, but I think it was because my friends anxiety was so high, her dog was really bonded and keyed in to her, she was so sure the dog would spook, it started to become a self fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> ...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> Don't want the gunfire to startle *or stimulate the dog* on future gunshots after a negative experience.


yes..
same principal even if the experience is not negative


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> yes..
> same principal even if the experience is not negative



Thanks.


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## Chris Viscovich (Apr 2, 2014)

It is definitely important to note that some dog's sensitivity may only occur during 1 of two modes: idle vs. working. My Mal, when working( Agility,Obedience,Protection), could care less about gunfire, fireworks, fire, environmentals) but recently expressed sensitivity to professional "big boom" fireworks when we were idle watching a display. I used some easy OB as a distraction and helped achieve some balance. I will continue to monitor and work on this.
She was started at a young age with unprotected ears with a .22 at distance and over time increased the caliber and proximity until she was diving through a pond with a Shotgun blasting away to make a bite.

At this point, we are seeking to protect one of her most valuable assets, her hearing, by using medium sized Mutt Muffs during range times of extended exposure or close proximity (like shoot-house clearing work). During "normal" protection work and environmental training no hearing protection is typically used.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

One thing that always works well for us is shooting "front" of the dog. We never shoot over top of the dog, we will always down the dog and step forward a step or two. It seems to really lessen the noise impact on the dog to a manageable level. 

Also... as a side note. As a personal observation, I have noticed that our dogs tend to be more uncomfortable around smaller, faster rounds like 9mm +P+ than bigger slow stuff like .45 ACP. I have no data to back this up, just something I am seeing at the range.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Matthew Grubb said:


> Also... as a side note. As a personal observation, I have noticed that our dogs tend to be more uncomfortable around smaller, faster rounds like 9mm +P+ than bigger slow stuff like .45 ACP. I have no data to back this up, just something I am seeing at the range.


 The peak pressure range is lower with the .45 so that's probably why you've noticed the difference.


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## Paul Cipparone (Feb 13, 2011)

Here's what i do, has worked for many upland, patrol, security dogs , & dogs in general
1- be sure dog is hungry
1- start with a 177 blank gun
3- choose a distance from the dog , while still being able to view dog's reactions ( better to error on the side of caution= further than nearer.
4-put food down for dog , or have some one do it for you.
5-fire a blank round , observe dog's reaction.If dog lifts head from food , move further away.
6- repeat until dog does not lift head from food.
7- move only short distances closer , if dog lifts head , move back.
I have had to fire 8 blanks per day , for up to 3 weeks when i have had severely gun/noise shy/sensitive dogs.
I could then stand beside dog while they are eating & they don't lift their heads from the dish.
Have done this with very gun shy to be upland game / waterfowl dogs. 
When changing calibers , repeat same procedure.
Hope this helps.
Paul C.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I have noticed a big difference between live and blank rounds. This was back when I was in the military. Since then I have come to the conclusion it was improper training causing a dog to be more worked up for the blanks out of desire or anticipation to bite. Lower drive in anticipation of a correction.

I think drooling or no reaction at all is most appropriate.

I don't know if this would be applicable to you, Matt, as far as different stages of training, the dogs are around different calibers of gunfire for different reasons. even pre-entry to your training maybe like the dog fearful of a suitcase for no reason...haha.





Matthew Grubb said:


> One thing that always works well for us is shooting "front" of the dog. We never shoot over top of the dog, we will always down the dog and step forward a step or two. It seems to really lessen the noise impact on the dog to a manageable level.
> 
> Also... as a side note. As a personal observation, I have noticed that our dogs tend to be more uncomfortable around smaller, faster rounds like 9mm +P+ than bigger slow stuff like .45 ACP. I have no data to back this up, just something I am seeing at the range.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Dave Colborn said:


> I have noticed a big difference between live and blank rounds. This was back when I was in the military. Since then I have come to the conclusion it was improper training causing a dog to be more worked up for the blanks out of desire or anticipation to bite. Lower drive in anticipation of a correction.
> 
> I think drooling or no reaction at all is most appropriate.
> 
> I don't know if this would be applicable to you, Matt, as far as different stages of training, the dogs are around different calibers of gunfire for different reasons. even pre-entry to your training maybe like the dog fearful of a suitcase for no reason...haha.


Damn suitcases!! lol Now we will have to work suitcases under gunfire!! 

We generally train with shotgun primers fired from pistols until we actually go to the range. Once there the dogs will generally sit in the car for a day of shooting so they hear the real stuff but are not in contact with it.


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## John Michaels (Oct 15, 2014)

This is great! Thanks so much Paul! i will give this a try...



Paul Cipparone said:


> Here's what i do, has worked for many upland, patrol, security dogs , & dogs in general
> 1- be sure dog is hungry
> 1- start with a 177 blank gun
> 3- choose a distance from the dog , while still being able to view dog's reactions ( better to error on the side of caution= further than nearer.
> ...


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