# Runny stools



## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi all, I have a 7 mth old mali/dutch shepherd cross dog, hes 27kg at the moment and has been raised on Royal Canin maxi. I only discovered dogfoodanalysis.com last week and having read the reviews I have moved him on to Orijen puppy (which is what Orijen recommended to me). 

He is prone to "skiing" and has had his anal glands emptied twice (the last time the vet near lost his face). The vet recommended adding fibre to his diet this should firm his stools and squeeze the anal glands as he defecates which I have done.

He has been on a mix of 70/30 canin/orijen for the last 10 days and although he never really had firm stools they are terrible now, really smelly and splootery.

Anyone know how long it will take for him to adjust to orijen, am I mixing correctly, should I just put him straight on to Orijen and let him sort it out??

Any help greatly appreciated


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

The first thing I would do is take a stool sample to the vet....splattery stools for that long would concern me, food change or not. 


Did you start with that 70/30? 

I would put him back on his original food and see if it clears up. If that doesn't work, I would try a different food. 

You can add some canned pumpkin (start with a tablespoon), NOT pie filling though, and see if it helps.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> The first thing I would do is take a stool sample to the vet....splattery stools for that long would concern me, food change or not.
> 
> 
> Did you start with that 70/30?
> ...


 
Look at his name Del Torro, feeding the dog mexican will do that! \\/


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jody Butler said:


> Look at his name Del Torro, feeding the dog mexican will do that! \\/


That's naughty...LOL


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> Hi all, I have a 7 mth old mali/dutch shepherd cross dog, hes 27kg at the moment and has been raised on Royal Canin maxi. I only discovered dogfoodanalysis.com last week and having read the reviews I have moved him on to Orijen puppy (which is what Orijen recommended to me).
> 
> He is prone to "skiing" and has had his anal glands emptied twice (the last time the vet near lost his face). The vet recommended adding fibre to his diet this should firm his stools and squeeze the anal glands as he defecates which I have done.
> 
> ...


When you switch to Orijen from Royal Canin you will need to cut back the quantity a lot or you will have cowpats.

It may be that the Orijen does not agree with him (not every food suits every dog), but my experience is that the most common reason for this problem is that the quantity is too much.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Do you have the abiltiy to feed Raw?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> Hi all, I have a 7 mth old mali/dutch shepherd cross dog, hes 27kg at the moment and has been raised on Royal Canin maxi. I only discovered dogfoodanalysis.com last week and having read the reviews I have moved him on to Orijen puppy (which is what Orijen recommended to me).
> 
> He is prone to "skiing" and has had his anal glands emptied twice (the last time the vet near lost his face). The vet recommended adding fibre to his diet this should firm his stools and squeeze the anal glands as he defecates which I have done.
> 
> ...


Never had firm stools? First I'd collect a sample and drop it off with the vet (because this is more than just the food change, since it's ongoing) unless the vet checked the fecal recently when he mentioned fiber, and next I'd fast him for a full day, plenty of water, baited if necessary. (If he's at all dehydrated, though, I'd take him him with the sample.)

Then I'd probably do a couple days of overcooked (picture gruel, not separate grains) white rice with a little plain pumpkin if you have it (not pie filling). I'd want log poops before proceeding. You'll have the vet results by then too.

Then I'd give very (very!) *small *meals, not giving increased ones until I saw a log poop from the first ones.

_"It may be that the Orijen does not agree with him (not every food suits every dog), but my experience is that the most common reason for this problem is that the quantity is too much."_

I agree big time, but you also have the history of soft poop.

I'd probably go back to RC (which I don't like much) at first, just to sort him out. I would not proceed with water-splat poops, and I wouldn't make any radical switch (including to raw, as big of a raw fan as I am) in the middle of this gut distress.

Then I'd try a slower intro and less food. (70/30 would normally be OK, but as you say, this guy has had ongoing soft poop.)

Let us know. Good luck.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the advice,right from the start, when he was a pup 14-20 weeks or so he had some blood and jelly stuff in his poo, I got this sorted out and vet reckoned it was colitis (may be spelt wrong) a dose of anti-biotics got him going right. 

However when on Canin he had yellowy green soft poo which smelt awful, this led me to research the food as I read the main ingrediant in Canin was maize, I have yet to see a dog eating maize of its own accord. As the dog doesn't absorb maize it rejects it hence the huge soft stools.

IN the mhorning his stools would be dark and quite firm 90 percent of the time, in the evening they would be quite loose. He would start going and it would be firm then it would turn spattery and novelty sounds are heard from his ass. 

I tried him on BARF about 3 mths ago and as I live in the United Kingdom (BSE aka mad cows disease) its really hard to get BARF type items, I fed him on chicken pieces like thighs, wings etc with heart, eggs and whatever else i could get him. I read up on Orijen and felt this would be the best option I work shifts and sometimes my girlfriend feeds him she wasn't to keen handling offal and such like.

Orijen here costs £53 per 13.5kg bag I bought 2 bags so he better get used to it!! 

I had him at vets today and he gave him an anti-biotic and some metacam and a course of salazopyrin to start tomorrow.

I was definitely guilty of over-feeding and since adjusted this, I was fearful that while growing not feeding enough would be detrimental. 

I devised the 70/30 mix myself and was going to phase in the Orijen but havent got past the 70/30. I have starved him several time, just water and overcooked rice (no pumpkin though) and yes the stools would be better for a few days but would turn soft again after 3-4 days.

My plan is to cut back on the canin and do a 50/50 mix from tomorrow. The Orijen advice is a "cup" how bigs a flippin cup????

Thanks again for replies

(ps im not mexican)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

It has a couple of American uses: it's 8 ounces liquid and it's about a half-pound of a food-type item; in American instructions for cooking, it often means liquid, or the 8 fluid ounces, but it obviously depends on the context.

In this case, the difference between liquid and dry (volume) is insignificant. 

They mean you to take a one-cup measure and fill it. Since you don't have a one-cup measure, a simple substitute would be to fill your liquid measure with kibble to about the 250 milliliter line (237, to be more precise).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Here's why I didn't try to give you the answer in grams: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_grams_are_in_one_cup


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"I devised the 70/30 mix myself and was going to phase in the Orijen but havent got past the 70/30. I have starved him several time, *just water and overcooked rice (no pumpkin though) and yes the stools would be better for a few days but would turn soft again after 3-4 days.*"_


It turned soft again _on the rice diet_, or after switching?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jamie you should try cutting back on the dogs beer intake. Loose stools are from to much beer


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## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

Have you researched SIBO? Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth. I know it gsds it can be genetic. My oldest dog has it and and came to me at 4 months old with on and off runny/soft stool. After testing for different things I learned about sibo and had him tested. It is a test for cobalimin and folate--a fasting blood test. Many dogs get it as a short term reaction to antibiotics or tummy upset. Some dogs have it period. My dog gets a little tylan each day and it is controlled.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> It has a couple of American uses: it's 8 ounces liquid and it's about a half-pound of a food-type item; in American instructions for cooking, it often means liquid, or the 8 fluid ounces, but it obviously depends on the context.
> 
> In this case, the difference between liquid and dry (volume) is insignificant.
> 
> They mean you to take a one-cup measure and fill it. Since you don't have a one-cup measure, a simple substitute would be to fill your liquid measure with kibble to about the 250 milliliter line (237, to be more precise).


A most informative reply, i'll do just that then. You would have thought orijen would give the feeds in grammes/oz's instead of a cup! 

When folk ask how much of that orijen are you feeding and i tell rhem 237 mls they'll think i'm bonkers!!


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> _"I devised the 70/30 mix myself and was going to phase in the Orijen but havent got past the 70/30. I have starved him several time, *just water and overcooked rice (no pumpkin though) and yes the stools would be better for a few days but would turn soft again after 3-4 days.*"_
> 
> 
> It turned soft again _on the rice diet_, or after switching?


If starved then fed rice say on a monday tue evening would be a firm stool as would wed thursday would maybe be ok in the am then pm would start to turn soft again.

Over the last 4 weeks he has put on just over 3kgs, he is full of beans, very focused and a bright happy dog!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> If starved then fed rice say on a monday tue evening would be a firm stool as would wed thursday would maybe be ok in the am then pm would start to turn soft again.
> 
> Over the last 4 weeks he has put on just over 3kgs, he is full of beans, very focused and a bright happy dog!



So the answer is, turns back to soft stool while still on the same rice diet that firmed it? In that case, it's more than a diet issue and can't be fixed with diet alone. But I see from other posts that you already know that. Jennifer made a good suggestion. You know that colitis is kind of a blanket term that doesn't mean much more than "inflammation of the gut (or colon)"? The trick is diagnosing the underlying cause and often managing the colitis while you work on that.


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## Kathryn Gordon (May 21, 2010)

While you're looking for the underlying cause of the problem, you might want to ask your vet about products that supply the same beneficial bacteria that is found in yogurt (or, if the dog can tolerate it, feed small amounts of yogurt). This can help relieve some of the symptoms. Also, there are charcoal tablets called endosorb (sp?) that can help firm up stools. Neither are cures, but, if your home situation is anything like mine has been on and off this past year, any improvement will make you and your dog a little happier.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> So the answer is, turns back to soft stool while still on the same rice diet that firmed it? In that case, it's more than a diet issue and can't be fixed with diet alone. But I see from other posts that you already know that. Jennifer made a good suggestion. You know that colitis is kind of a blanket term that doesn't mean much more than "inflammation of the gut (or colon)"? The trick is diagnosing the underlying cause and often managing the colitis while you work on that.


Aaaaah no, I would feed him rice both am and pm on say the monday but tue i would put him back on canin which would = runny stools. I read tammys link and she has the same issue with her 6mth old mali. A friend of mine has a gundog (lab) when we go hunting he poo's constantly from the car to the hide. The only time he does this is when we go hunting, I figure he knows he's in for heavy work and evacuates his bowels??

My dog mostly poo's loos after and or during excercise or when he's excited during bite work. I'm starting to think these symptoms are connected??

He was firm this morning then 10 mins later had a soft one after a bit of running about, this afternoon during ballwork he was mediocre.

I have cut way back on his canin and increased the Orijen but he's still getting less if you know what i mean?? The stools are a lot darker when firm.

I hope to get this resolved so i can discuss more than dog sh*t :-&


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> ... My dog mostly poo's loos after and or during excercise or when he's excited during bite work. I'm starting to think these symptoms are connected??


We have another member here with the same issue. I will ask her to PM you.


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## Tamara Champagne (Jan 20, 2009)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> My dog mostly poo's loos after and or during excercise or when he's excited during bite work. I'm starting to think these symptoms are connected??


Uh yah, I experience the same issue with my guys. They are so on and off. No exercise at all = normal poops. Normal poops in the morning, then soft after/during a run at night. WTF?

I am starting to think also there is a correlation between exercise/excitement and runny poops. I have ruled out any other possible issues....

I'm at a loss. :sad:


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

-exertional diarrhea can be caused by several things - feeding to close to exercise, form of food (too wet etc), wrong type of carbs (poorly digested starches can effect absorption of other food ingredients (proteins, electrolytes, water) which leads to wetter stools.

-exercise generally slows down gastric emptying time but can speed it up in some dogs - resulting in diarrhea.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Starting to see a trend, the plot thickens (shame the shit doesn't)  i wait at least 2 hrs after feeding before he gets any excercise at all. I have him in his pen during feeding. Its the inconsistency that concerns me and that the majority are soft. Hopefully the change to orijen will sort him out?? If hes getting a better food in a lesser amount surely hes more likely to absorb more and excrete less.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> Starting to see a trend, the plot thickens (shame the shit doesn't)  i wait at least 2 hrs after feeding before he gets any excercise at all. I have him in his pen during feeding. Its the inconsistency that concerns me and that the majority are soft. Hopefully the change to orijen will sort him out?? If hes getting a better food in a lesser amount surely hes more likely to absorb more and excrete less.


 
You're relly enjoying this shit aren't you ?  And if you enjoy shit, have you popped your head in the canine lounge yet ?

I had a dog with a non specific colitis, sounding similar to what your describing here...I never really managed to get to the bottom of it. I found out through trial and error what food he could tolerate, when he took a bad bout, I put him on boiled white fish and rice and treated him with salazopyrin, and continued with the meds till he seemed well over it. Managed it like that for years, I do suspect there are better ways now though .


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

One of my GSDs was getting loose stools when I fed once a day (kibble). When I switched to twice a day it helped considerably.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> One of my GSDs was getting loose stools when I fed once a day (kibble). When I switched to twice a day it helped considerably.



Yes. Too much food at one time is probably in the top 5 on the diarrhea-trigger list.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

I haven't gone away and neither has the problem!! Was getting virus alerts on my computer when I tried to log on. Same story unfortunately with the dog. Starting to think its just a thing i'm going to have to deal with.

I spoke with the Orijen rep and she reckons it can take up to 3 months for the dog to adjust to a new diet. 

just have to wait it out and see how things go, also got a message from Jenn who used Kaolin Pectate to some degree of success. 

Thanks again to Jenn for the private message


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've experienced the same, especially in hot weather with bitework. The younger GSD always has loose stool after bitework in hot weather. The next day we're back to normal. It's not even a fear issue. 

On the other hand, like horses, the more you exercise the dog, the looser the stool, or not?

Carrots, grated finely, plus a good oil can help but I would hesitate on using this day in day out.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Just a quick post, I gave him a good meaty bone yesterday and his stools today although a funny colour, light green/stoney brown colour but very very firm and had a shiney wet look coating.

I took a stool sample to the vet yesterday and was told to come back in 5 days as he has been on medication, tune in same time next week for the next exciting episode!! :roll:


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