# German Shepherd Forced Pack Combinations



## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

I've had dogs that either couldn't come in the house b/c of their disposition or because of where I lived, or who I lived with. At some points, I've had the right dogs and plenty of leeway with as many as 4 GSDs living in the house at night.

If I had to choose to have just two dogs that came in the house, I'd want males. One female and one male spend way too much time together, necking, distracted, humping, whatever. 

I think three dogs together isn't great. One dog is always odd man out, more so if one dog is a female and two are males.

What about a forced pack (all dogs from different dames) with four males under one roof? Anyone done well with this? Or if you've had four dogs that were GSDs or mals or whatever that went well in the house, what was the combination?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've had multiple dogs most of my life. Terriers for the last 30+ yrs and all have ran together. Intact dogs and bitches (except in season of course).
At present my two intact male GSDs are kenneled together and my JRT is a house dog. 
The JRT is out with the GSDs only when I'm present but he's the only real troublemaker with my own dogs I've had in all the yrs.
I've had a number of them that wouldn't tolerate any outside dogs and a few skirmishes here at home but their social structure has always kept things from getting serious. That's even with the terriers and those mofos are nuts!


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I have multiple dogs. Had 4 males (2 GSD, 2 mal) and 2 females (pitX, chowX). Now, one less GSD, one more mal (a female pup). The 2 adult bitches fight, so they are separated unless I am directly in control of both, when they don't dare try anything. The males get along fine, much easier than bitches, but it took a while to get them to that point, maybe 6 - 8 months? And I don't leave them alone together just in case. The baby puppy was super easy to work into the pack, all well after a couple weeks or so, the boys adore her and would let her get away with murder simply because she is a GIRL. Again, I don't leave her alone with any of them, I don't want them raising and teaching her, that's my job.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I will add that I've never brought an adult dog into my pack. It's always been a new puppy. At the very oldest I brought in a 7 month old Aussie with no problems.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I've got 6 dogs. 3 Rotts (1M 2F) 1 Mal (m) 2 pugs (1m 1f) Curiously, it's been the old male pug (11yr) that has caused all the trouble. Generally I would let all the dogs sort things out but I make the Rott and Mal be submissive to the pug because he could get killed with one chomp. I've not had an issue in many months and they are usually not in the same room and never left alone with each other.


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## Sidney Johnsen (May 31, 2009)

All 7 of my dogs (Siberians) live in the house and can be trusted alone with each other. Only one of them was brought in as a puppy, the rest were introduced and added to the pack as adults. Two females (one intact), and five males (one intact). Never had any problems with this situation, but whenever I have looked at adding a new dog to the mix, I've always carefully taken into account their behavior towards other dogs before making a decision on buying them or not.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Sid, is this something similar to the way the foxhounds behave with each other? They work, play?? and eat together as a pack??


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I've had four dogs all live in the house 2 male gsds both intact and 2 jack russells, 1 male and a spayed female.

No real problem if one kept eyes in the back of their head at all times - the two gsds could erupt very quickly and took managing. I would think very carefully about keeping two gsd males in the house again. The jacks were a breeze, but generally they all got along most of the time.

eta. Meant to add, at no time did any of the dogs mess with the jrt bitch.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> I've got 6 dogs. 3 Rotts (1M 2F) 1 Mal (m) 2 pugs (1m 1f) Curiously, it's been the old male pug (11yr) that has caused all the trouble. Generally I would let all the dogs sort things out but I make the Rott and Mal be submissive to the pug because he could get killed with one chomp. I've not had an issue in many months and they are usually not in the same room and never left alone with each other.


With my Briard and Fila, I took on the Fila's sister (not intact) and her little "pal" a Coton du Tulear dog for 2 weeks whilst the owners were on holiday. We separated them at night, ours below and theirs with us. During the day we had peace. We took them all 4 out and if I went alone, I took the Briard and the Coton or the 2 Filas. The Coton accepted the Briard as boss but towards the end he tried to insert himself between the Briard and the Fila.

Nothing really drastic happened but when the owners came to pick them up and all 4 were in the back yard, the Fila showed the Coton that he had no chance of stepping up. The owners were horrified - the Coton had a tiny wound (the Fila could have crushed him with his jaws). So much for canine knowledge????

Needless to say we didn't have to look after them again

I know a girl that has 6 GSDs and goes walking with them together, very mannerly. Chapeaux!!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Maggie,

I have (against all professional advice) two intact GSD males (and working lines - cannot function:x) in the house and terrace. In the garden, they are ok if each has a football in its fangs!!

My last two intact dogs were a Briard and a Fila Brasileiro and we never needed a partition in the car box. They were terrific together but, they were together from when the Fila was 8 weeks.

There are skirmishes occasionally but I've never had to go to the vets. There are certain areas (an aggressive dog passing the house - Buster sniffs it from metres away and knows its the one who growls at the fence) If I'm not quick enough, he can redirect but normally I'm there and nothing happens.

We only let them be together when the little one was 4 months (the older one wanted to eliminate him and our breeder said to take it slowly). I wonder if this has made a difference.

I don't believe in "jealousy" in dogs there must be another explanation but we've learned to ignore them when they are in the house together. If the older one feels the younger one is being "preferred", I can see it on his face and can smooth it. Critical zones are when one has been out and they come face to face but this is easy to avoid.

They are not together when we are out. I honestly don't think that this is their problem but have, on advice, decided to separate them.


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## Sidney Johnsen (May 31, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Sid, is this something similar to the way the foxhounds behave with each other? They work, play?? and eat together as a pack??


Yes. I never seperate these dogs except when the female comes into season, then she can only run and play with the group when I am there to supervise. 

There is a dominant female and dominant male pair (11 year old brother and sister), who tend to keep everyone in line. The female often steps in when she thinks the younger "boys" are playing too rough and/or loud, and all she has to do is make some noise at them and posture and they wander off to their own corners or quiet down.

Everyone shares beds, toys, and food though without any issues.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I assume this runs back to the breed such as Foxhounds. I know that Jack Russell Terriers are single fighters, i.e. go into the fox hole alone and are dependent on theimselves.

They definitely do not run in a pack. Each has its own agenda.

The Cheshire hunt, where I was born, started to run the JRTs in a van and only let them out whe3re the fox had gone to earth, as, if left to run with the Foxhounds, each would "run his own hunt".


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I have huskies (15) also and can let most of all mine run together loose - I kennel /stake out for feeding or when I am away from the property but generally they are loose together. I don't worry about them being "doggy" as they are kind of wired that way anyway and they kind for need that for what they do.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

_Maggie,_

_I have (against all professional advice) two intact GSD males (and working lines - cannot function







) in the house and terrace. In the garden, they are ok if each has a football in its fangs!!_

_My last two intact dogs were a Briard and a Fila Brasileiro and we never needed a partition in the car box. They were terrific together but, they were together from when the Fila was 8 weeks._

_There are skirmishes occasionally but I've never had to go to the vets. There are certain areas (an aggressive dog passing the house - Buster sniffs it from metres away and knows its the one who growls at the fence) If I'm not quick enough, he can redirect but normally I'm there and nothing happens._

Gillian,

I didn't need a car partition either, and had no real concern in the actual house, well not very often.

The younger dog was very aware and respectful of the older dog at close quarters, it was in the garden where the younger dog was quicker and felt more confident that the problems could arise. Had the odd broken nose on one dog and a few holes in the other's head all in under the minute or so it took me to get there one time.

This wasn't usual but I maintained a high degree of awareness - at all times. It wasn't a particularly relaxing way of being!

I think a lot can depend on the actual personality of the individual dogs kept together, I've known a couple of folks keep a couple of gsds together with no real problems.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Maggie.

I passed the police station the other day and outside was a PC and a young woman with about 5 Westhilghland Whites who she said lived peacefully in the house together. I asked the cop if they were the new PC dogs and he laughed and we got talking about keeping numerous dogs together. I told him my breeder's girlfriend said no way can two working line GSDs live in the same house together and he said " It's a good job they don't know they're "Working Dogs".

I often think the term "Working Dogs" is overrated. Canine is canine.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I've got 5 currently at the house now, soon to be 4. My two young adult males (intact Malinois, neutered Malinois/GSD) do not get along and are only out with each other when both are muzzled. It's a pain in the rump, but doable. They are also on muzzle and on e-collars when we go out to the off leash trails. I don't go to "dog parks" (the small 1-3 acre deals in a city), but it's helpful if we do run into someone else with an off leash dog because as much as they dislike each other, they have been known to pack up together against another dog. I think Zoso has finally started to acknowledge defeat with Fawkes, but he's being rehomed at the end of the month as I think he'd be happier as the only dog or with a laid back female. Buck the old man husky/Rottweiler doesn't really care much unless you bump his bad ear with a bad (i.e.-years long) ear infection that's never truly gone away despite tons of stuff being thrown at it (we're going to try one last deep ear flush and a partial ear crop and hope it makes him more comfortable). 

My two females (spayed Rottweiler, spayed Malinois) are passive aggressive "frenemies." Typical girls. :roll: They get along fine typically with minimal snarking, but when Lily the Mal (the dominant of the two) gets too pushy with Elsa the Rott (I suspect when Elsa is having a bad day with her arthritis and the play is just too much), they may have words. They like vying for our affection in the typical passive aggressive female way (if one is being petted, the other must be too).


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

I'll let a bitch and a male neck, but when I see two bitches necking I stop that ASAP.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

What is "necking" ?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Something we did in the back of the car as teenagers until someone put a stop to it!!

Canine necking is obviously something different. Maybe it comes from the fact that when one dog places its head on the other's neck - trouble starts.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I know what "necking" is in human terms, I'm just wondering what in heck he means that his dogs are doing.

FWIW, it does not take any body contact, no placing chin over the other dog's back or anything obvious like that, for my two bitches to start a fight. And their fights have been a lot worse than anything I've yet had between the males...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Then I'm curious, too. Come to think of it I've never one female place her chin on the neck of the other but then I've mostly moved around male circles.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jason Caldwell said:


> I'll let a bitch and a male neck, but when I see two bitches necking I stop that ASAP.


 
Why?


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> Why?


Because UFC 101 is about to start. 

I tried having my current GSD (Chert) and my old timer GSD (Harley) who has since passed in the house togeather a total of three times. They each had their own bed, but as soon as I left the room Chert would follow me and Harley would change beds. It started a fight once where I was the recipient of Harley's bite (bad eye sight). After that it was one in the crate and the other on the bed. That damn old timer would purposley do things to push Chert's buttons. If we were off our property then they would get along with each other and even play around.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

ha ha

You could tell when one of my dogs were sick - cos the other one would be so high and pleased with himself!

btw, wot's the UFC 101?


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> ha ha
> btw, wot's the UFC 101?


Sorry, the dogs are probably going to fight.


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

I don't let two bitches neck because I'm not running a free for all here, or a revenue catalyst for the emergency vet. 

Necking is when one dog places their chin on the back of another dog's neck and, in their own way says, I'm the boss and you're second in command. When it's a male and a female I've seen it be a precursor to mouth boxing or other fun that doesn't get out of hand. When it's two bitches who don't like each other, the necking is a precursor to a fight. I don't know of a greater display of dominance, not involving teeth or urine, between bitches than necking. When one dog begins necking, the placement of the chin on the other dog's neck basically serves as a ramp. All the offensive dog has to do is stand up, use their chin as a lever, and up they go on the other dog's withers. If the mounted dog wants to fight, all they have to do is swivel in the direction of the mounting dog and back up a space, and as the mounting dog is falling back down and getting four paws on the ground, all of a sudden they are facing each other in a Mexican standoff. Daddy's little angels.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

But why more of a no-no between females than males?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Males fighting will generally acknowledge a superiour dog and submit.
Bitches are just that. No give. It's just rip, and tear.
Kinda like two wimmins in a bar fight.


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm with Bob. I've seen two male GSDs go at it hard, and it's not like two bitches. With two bitches who won't back down, they get tunnel vision, and it's brutal.


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

I currently have four GSD's at home. One intact male, three spayed females. Abram can be lose with any of the girls. NONE of the girls can be lose together, too many alpha bitches.  After one dust up where two broke out of their crates in the house (thank goodness I was home) the girls all now have big hurkin kennels and metal crates. :-o The girls get to take turns in the house with Abe and me. Otherwise it's yard, kennel, or crate.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Males will fight for food, status, sex and territory.
Females will fight "cause the bitch is in my face".


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

in my life as a "big dog" owner, pet-owner, ie, i don't have a "kennel" with multiple dogs, the MAX number of dogs at any time is 3. i've owned 2 bitches at a time, but they take more management, and i've only ever done THAT twice. my personal pref is a bitch/dog or dog/dog combination--bitches are bitches.

if i ever go past 3 dogs, then it becomes time to build a kennel. and 3 big dogs in the house is at least one too many for my lifestyle. FWIW.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Males will fight for food, status, sex and territory.
> Females will fight "cause the bitch is in my face".


I've heard say that, unlike often with males, the offensive bitch will not accept the submission of the other and will continue to bite, maybe to the bitter end.

Is this true or just another old wives' tale?


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