# brainstorm: secure dog crate with a "panic handle"



## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

i don't know where else to put this seeing as we don't have an "equipment" section, and it applies to all dogs, working, pet, or otherwise... 

some friends of mine recently had a devastating house fire  i had been staying at their place the night of the fire (sleeping outside in my vehicle with my dogs) and saw just how quickly the place went up... 

they had 10 dogs on the property, 7 were crated in the house... they managed to let one out, but others they could not reach, and their priority quickly became their daughter, as she was badly burned while attempting to escape... 

thankfully, all 3 people in the house made it out, but it will be a long road to recovery... 5 of their working dogs (USAR, military, theatrical shows) perished  one dog somehow miraculously managed to escape, but i can only guess it was when the couch next her vari-kennel went up, and the plastic of the kennel started to melt... 

there was nothing left of the vari-kennels except the doors, but all the wire folding crates survived the blaze... 

this has gotten me to thinking, because i live alone and often have 4-5 dogs crated in the bedroom with me while i am sleeping... it would be a nightmare trying to unlatch all of them, in the dark, in a panic... 

so i want to try to come up with some way to either modify existing crates, or design a new one, with some sort of panic handle, so the crate can still be secure to prevent escape from inside, but in the event of an emergency you can just yank on a handle or pull tab and drop a whole side of the crate out... 

any and all ideas are appreciated, for any and all types of crate... and please, go over your fire plans, or make one if you don't have one... teach kids to "get down low and go go go", "stop drop and roll" if they happen to catch fire... make sure your smoke alarms are working, and if you live somewhere with deadlocks that need the key to operate them, please leave a key in the door while you are sleeping... i know i struggle to put the key in my back door in the dark when i get home after work, and i'm just tired, not panicked and in fear for my life... 

fire is fscking scary shit!


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I feel for your friends. We had a barn burn down and lost a good portion of the rabbitry because to get the beasties out you had to open each and every cage and then pack them into carry containers. When we re-built the barn we hung the new cages on thin re-bar suspended from the ceiling. The idea being that, in a fire, you could cut the hanging wire, pull out the re-bar, and then pick up the whole cage and walk out the door with it. Thankfully, we never had another barn fire but wondered about your latch situation. My first thought on the wire crates was to change the side construction to rods that are inserted as a U-shape. You pull up on the bar and it moves up releasing the whole side panel. You could modify the door for the same thing and have the release on the side corner.

Veri-kennels would be harder. but instead of snaps on the side, a rod you pull and then crack it open like an egg. Of course, anything you make easy to take apart, if you have an escape artist dog or one that is a problem to contain in the first place then you have made it simpler for them to get out on their own.

The other issue is even when (or if) you release the dog(s) is getting everyone outside. Its one thing to release everyone but the second half of the equation is do you just open the door and turn them loose into the streets? Not so much a problem in the country but it would be my luck that if it was one of my dogs they would be hit by the incoming emergency vehicles. 

Something to think on though.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

definitely valid thoughts, Sarah... i am planning to order more muzzles that will fit my guys and keep them by the crates as well, and some slip leashes as i don't often leave collars on my guys... but at the end of the day i would much rather get them out of the house and to comparative safety... 

there has gotta be a way though to make something that is just on the outside of the crate, where the dog can't scratch or bite at it, but a human can easily grab onto and yank... i will add protective plates over pin mechanisms if i have to... i have only had one dog destroy a wire crate to get out, the rest are pretty good... one escaped through a door i had not latched properly, only did up the top latch... so for now i am just doing up the top latch on all my crates... the only one that is the exception is the folding alloy crate that only has one slam latch, but it would be easy enough to get open in a hurry...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i understand what you are trying to design and why, but your objective is at the opposite end of the design criteria for a crate : to securely restrict a dog from getting out but still have a quick release capability.
- competing design criteria ](*,)

i would focus your efforts on trying to incorporate more early warning indicators and decrease the need for quick release crates
- improved weather forecasting capability, especially since Au has their share of wild bush fires ](*,) 
- review why they didn't have enuff time to get the dogs and the kids out and try and prevent that same situation from happening again
- better planned escape/evasion routes from fires (and flash floods, etc)
- more fire extinguishers in more quick access places ?
....these would be fairly easy to plan for where you live; but when "you're on the road" it's a whole new ball game 

i've thought about the crate situation too, but not from the fire escape aspect....rather how easy it might be for a dog to be trapped in a crate after an auto accident. "they say" it's more dangerous for an uncrated dog, but i've known of a few who escaped a car accident that were not in a crate who would have been trapped if they had been crated
- on a crowded city street a dog flying out of a car might be a lot worse than a dog flying out in a rural setting ??


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

Rick, cheers for your input

two of the dogs would have already perished by the time the humans in the house woke up, they were crated right next to where the fire started... it was an old timber house and the whole place was ablaze in a matter of minutes, my friends were lucky to make it out as it was... we got their daughter over to the kennel building to put water on her, as she had been badly burned, and one friend and i ran back to the rear of the house - the front was already gone - and there was no way we could have gone back in... it was just unbelievably quick... i know one of the firefighters who attended the call and he said it was 7 minutes from his crew getting the job, to them arriving at the house, so maybe a total of 10-11 minutes from the fire starting, to the humans waking, to me being woken and calling 000, to help arriving... and by that time the house was well and truly gone, fire coming out all sides and the roof had fallen in... 

in this case, a fire extinguisher would have been about as good as trying to piss on it... by the time the humans woke the whole verandah had already gone up...  but i will definitely be getting some for my place... 

i have attached a photo of what was left of the house... the verandah was on the right hand side of the image where the tin is all laying, the fire started about halfway along the verandah where all the floor is fallen in... 

as far as crates go, i don't see why it would be that hard to have a crate that is still secure, but with a way to easily release it... as Sarah said it would be harder to modify a vari-kennel but i had in mind for the wire crates a system with pins holding the side of the crate in, but all of those pins connected to a handle so you could pull them all out at the same time... it wouldn't be hard to have a plate behind the pin assembly so the dog could not scratch or bite at the pins... i know this isn't the simplest of methods to set up but in my mind it seems it would work the best while still retaining the original function of the crate, as well as security...


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Here's your next problem. The muzzles. In a fire, where you are working for speed and quick removal if you are applying a muzzle then things will grind to a halt while your struggle to apply it. If you are doing a line of kennels, I'm assuming you would release all dogs before trying to get them out of the house. At least loose, they might have a chance of escape. Perhaps it would be better to house the dogs in another building altogether? Or work to increase the fireproofing of one room making it a kinda "safe" room?


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

i have a muzzle here that i have been using with my guys for a couple of years, i can slip it on in seconds without having to worry about buckles or straps or anything, once it is on their snout i just have to tuck their ears under the strap... i have ordered a dozen more of them because they are so handy and i will be using them for more than just fire preparedness... 

and i intend to do a lot more training with my guys so i can actually get them to put their noses in one on command... my old boy already will because he knows a muzzle means fun... the younger crew will already accept wearing one but aren't so keen on putting them on... they are not the be-all and end-all of muzzles but they are better than nothing and enough to stop a little scrap turning into a full on fight, and enough to stop them getting a bite on any EMS who may try to grab them if they are running loose... i am not going to be able to hang on to 4+ dogs and make it down the back (or front, if we have to go that way) stairs at the same time, unless i manage to get slip leashes that are longer than about 8ft.... i will probably hold onto the crankiest two that are most likely to fight and/or bite and teach the others a controlled exit from the house, that i will start using on a daily basis, so it simply becomes habit, and if i've gotten leashes on them i can grab a hold of them again once we are out... 

i don't have the option of housing them in another building here, there is only the house... and being a rental house i really can't do much other than get my smoke detectors online again and buy an extinguisher or two... 

thus the purpose of this thread being to brainstorm on ways to modify the crates, because i think that is where i'm going to lose most of my time trying to get out, fiddling with the latches


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I think modifying existing crates could be difficult or easy depending on the crate style and what is required for particular dogs to be secure in them.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

also age of crate, condition, and materials used, plastics vary considerably in plastic crates..as due the construction and gauges of the wire crates. I personally only use heavier gauge old style drop pin cornered wire cages, have never had luck with foldable or cheaper/ thinner (made cheaper, not priced cheaper) style wire cracks. it is sad the way most normal crates are nowadays, thin foldable, with plastic pans..lol..nothing like a good old drop pin crate with a metal pan (in my opinion anyhow)

for varikennel type if "could be" easy to put "stoppers" on inside lip (angle iron or some other idea) to prevent door from swinging inside crate, remove locking mechanisms, drill out hole slightly and use a drop pin through whole front of crate to secure gate from opening, then you just lift out pin and door is open....

downside is that you'd have to use it all the time instead of regular locking mechanisms..

back when the gates were flimsier and the plastic was stronger, we used to use drop pins to prevent dogs from popping the doors open...

nowadays it seems they made the gates stronger so the "pins" don't bend nearly as easily, now instead of the gate bending, the entire crates just crack in half it seems... I had 3 crates cracked open like an egg in recent years, almost would rather have the gates bend than the crates ruined..

I imagine many of the more pricey dog boxes have easy open locks, maybe not panic handles, but easier to open nonetheless

sorry to hear about this fire, fires suck..


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

something to think about though.especially with more aggressive type dogs, that you might not be able to just let them all loose together outside.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

thank you Joby, gives me a lot to think on... 

and yes, i'm well aware my idiots will all try to fight each other if i just turn them loose, thus the plans to muzzle them and try to keep a handle on them if possible with the slip leads... but hey given the choice of a possible dog fight or a definite firey death, i know which i am taking... 

there is a good chance they will be that scared anyway that they will just run... the two dogs that got away from my friend's house, just ran... the only one that got out of a crate without help just fled, and wasn't found until the next day, and the old girl who was in the back yard legged it for all she was worth as soon as the gate was open... and i would still prefer that over a firey death...


also, would much rather sacrifice convenience to close doors, to be able to get my guys out in a hurry... they all run up and put themselves in their own crates anyway, and wait for me to give them their treat and close the door, so i am not fighting them to get them IN there, they are all happy to go... a little extra effort to close the crate would not bother me...


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I'm with Rick in thinking an exit strategy is going to be as useful as a quick release on the crates, especially if you are considering the need to leash and muzzle on the way out.

Is there a clear path for the dogs from the crates to the exit, assuming in a fire, you can get to it? Is there an alternative way out? Where will you take them when they get outside? How will you contain or manage them outside? Vehicle? Shed? Kennels? Tie outs?


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

i am already in the room that is closest to both the front and back entrances, and if we really have to we can climb out onto the stairs... the other two rooms you would have to jump from a second story window... 

for now, once out, they would just have to get tied out to a fence further up the road, because of the way the yard slopes the pens are all too close to the house to be used safely if the house is alight, and i can't set them up further out... a mate has a kennel about a 20min drive away and they would get transported there as soon as practical... i can't afford a heap of extra crates to store, they are hideously expensive for the size i would need, and i have nowhere external to the house to store them anyway.... 

i know i said for people to go over their own fire plans, or make one, because it's not something that often gets thought about, and as i've already said i plan to start training to get one in place here, but the purpose of this thread was to try to work out a quick way to get them out of the crates, because an exit strategy is no use to us if i can't get them out of the crates to start with!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm fortunate that I've always been able to run my dogs all together. 

Both dog houses are inside my wood working shop and they have easy access to a dog door on their own but I still have smoke alarms in the shop. 

I think if you have them throughout the house including in the room where the dogs are kept it can be a huge help.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Jay Quinn said:


> so i want to try to come up with some way to either modify existing crates, or design a new one, with some sort of panic handle, so the crate can still be secure to prevent escape from inside, but in the event of an emergency you can just yank on a handle or pull tab and drop a whole side of the crate out...
> 
> fire is fscking scary shit!


It sure is.

I'm sorry to hear about that situation involving your friends and their dogs. Are you looking for a quick release latch system maybe like this? 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1VRRZKANR92D924TYBRQ

I picked up something a bit different from a military surplus store. I don't exactly know what they are but they seem like something you are asking about. I say that because if set up right I think they all could be linked together and with one pull the closures would open. I don't know how useful it would be in the event that you have dogs that try to get out of their crates.

I can shoot you a pic of it if you are interested.

BTW if you don't have a flashlight or headlamp by your bed side get one or both. I have both. If I need to I can use the flashlight in a defensive situation.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

i really only have one dog who breaks out... he is now in a military grade folding alloy kennel with a slam latch... it's easy to get open in a hurry and still secure... but it cost me almost USD$950 with excess baggage fees to Oz... can't afford more of them 

the rest are really good, i think the night that two got out at once was because the crate breaker would have stirred everyone else up while he was destroying his crate... i have not had another escape since... no one else even attempts it, as a general rule... 

Bob, sounds like you have a good setup... 

and Nicole yes something like that may be handy to hold a crate together again! thank you for suggesting them!


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

We have two bedrooms on second story and when we rebuilt our deck, designed it to run the length of the house with stairs down to the yard. Cost a pretty penny to add that much deck, but our bedroom leads to a hall long hall and you have to go past the laundry room, garage (gas HW), and kitchen. Being able to get out a low window was important to us. With two dogs, opening the crates is not really a time issue.


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## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

You might want to just consider a separate metal or block shed for your dogs. Insulate it and use it as a 'crate room' for when you're sleeping or not home.

Yes, varikennel type crates can be easily modified like Joby said. Take out the latch mechanism and drop a single straight rod down through from top to bottom instead. Depending on the crate you might need to drill the 'catch hole' all the way through the plastic. We've done this on a couple of crates, it's not difficult to use on a daily basis either.

Ang


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## shelle fenton (Sep 24, 2015)

We had to evacuate our property on christmas day due to bush fires. 

I do have a fire plan. and this is where we went wrong: feel free to learn from my rather obvious mistake.

1. 11.30 Fire Brigade notice to' watch and wait' fire 12km away, no vehicles in attendance. I am at my Mother in laws for xmas lunch. So i keep an eye on my phone alerts from fire brigade. 

2.12.00 - Evacuate notice - leave now whilst you can. 
2 vehicles in attendance. I drive 2km, collect my dogs from my home, and bring them........
Mother in law advises the dogs are not welcome. "Its Christmas dinner for goodness sakes" as if the arsonist would of been put off by this piece of info. I tether my dogs under my van, on a 46degree day. out the front of her property. And struggle to eat, as i am fuming with my family, who dont consider my dogs important enough to rescue. Hey ho. 
3. Fire is now 1.7km from my property and 52 fire engines are working to gain control. 
3. At 4.30 fire brigade give all clear.

So, once you have worked out, how to get your dogs out of their crates....
My question is : *where are you putting your dogs. Because any kennels near you, will be FULL, Burnt down. *


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Excellent point Shelle!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

if you have a fire plan; exercise it (it should be more than a "to do" list)
*don't wait for the fire*
try to make your exercises as realistic as possible and you will eventually eliminate the "Murphy's" 

day/night/bad weather etc etc

a plan is just a starting point...to modify when the SHTF 
but you gotta start 

thought i'd just carry my dog down a ladder from my rear exit until i tried it and found a MUCH better/faster way to do it


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

rick smith said:


> if you have a fire plan; exercise it (it should be more than a "to do" list)
> *don't wait for the fire*
> try to make your exercises as realistic as possible and you will eventually eliminate the "Murphy's"
> 
> ...


You put a sliding board on the back of your house right? :grin:


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