# Working to get my dog to be more serious Part 2



## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

https://youtu.be/OUFZp67QhJc
https://youtu.be/8ziTiyimMAQ

Here is an update on our training with the new club. Working towards a PSA as a reminder for reference. This is our 2nd session since we joined (bad weather and my travel schedule slowed us down). Since Zeus was doing fine we decided to work on his "aus". I am posting both training videos - not edited at all as they might be good learning sessions for those with my experience (not high) in training as they are riddled with mistakes - all by me. Also, this was done before the certified decoy showed up who was late and pointed out all the mistakes and worked on the "aus" - unfortunately we did not record that. His final session ended with Zeus winning the sleeve after he did the "aus". I have also started working on the "aus" using postive re-inforcements using the methods mentioned in earlier posts and he is getting the hang of it. Finally, he has a prong collar on along with a regular collar. Luckily for me, I have a dog who can handle all my screw ups and does not kill his drive and still willing to work for me - this last comment came from the certified decoy. Now, it will be interesting to see what else you folks find wrong in these videos.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Much improvement from the very first video. 



No hesitancy with the decoys full frontal pressure.


Looks like you may have a nice working dog there.


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Thanks, appreciate your feedback.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

He difinately is looking better...and more like my RJ.  Just a couple of observations, Don't give the out command while hanging the dog. It counter-conditions the dog to fight harder for the bite when the out command is given. Also, the out was taught to my RJ at a very early age. Using force to teach the out has been on the bottom of my list of things to do for the out for a long time. It doesn't get any easier and deteriorates the bond with the dog. Also not a fan of the decoy (bad guy) using force on my dog to get the release. If you're building a sport dog I guess it's OK but if you want him to do more than sport then teach him the out yourself and leave the decoy to being the guy the dog wants to eat and never being defeated by said decoy.


You are a young team and have lots of work to do but you are headed in the right direction. I love how your boy is easily turned on and off. Looks like you have a good one there. Keep up the good work!


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Thanks! Yup, he is definitely a good dog - love him to death even more so that he forgives me for all my screw ups and it does not phase him one bit.


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## dewon fields (Apr 5, 2009)

Psa is a tough sport, your dog better have his testicles screwed on tight. Pressure is intense , most dogs (gsd) rarely get to level 2. Your decoy should start imprinting the inner arm with a leg sleeve. They will never present a forearm bite. The dog looks intense , just keep building confidence which goes back to a competent decoy.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Looking good,lots of work to be done and make sure you are dealing with the right people.
Do not test the dog every time but give him as much as he needs.Stop when he performs really well and wants more.Good for his drive.
If i ever had a decoy hitting the leash with a stick/whip that would be the last time he worked my dog.


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Thanks (Dewon, Jack), yes I have seen what the PSA dogs have to go through. So far my dog seems to have the drives and nerves - time will tell. Will continue to see how far he ends up. Based on what my dog is demonstrating and what the breeder in Denmark has told me of his siblings from the 2 litters born there and several ended up in law enforcement and one with the Swedish Army he certainly has the right stuff to build upon.


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Went for training Saturday evening and worked on several PSA - PDC scenarios and I was thrilled that my dog outed when I asked him to without any corrections. Here is the disclaimer - he bit on command and decoy gave him a good fight and let him have the sleeve, I took him away from the decoy and asked him to out and he dropped the sleeve - we did it 3 times and he did it each time. Did the same when we did the car -jacking scenario. As per advise from Centurian and others I did use the 2 ball technique and later the 2 sleeve technique and worked on the "aus" by making it a game for about a week and a half and did no bitework with him during that time. Last Saturday was the first time we did the "aus" - it was a great feeling to see him do it - now we have to continue proofing till I am 100% confident that he really got it. Of course, now we have to practice the "aus" on command with the decoy still wearing the sleeve and see how he does. One step at a time but we are slowly getting there. Once we get past this we can make some real progress as he has absolutely 0 issues with biting on command and not biting even with the decoy standing next to me, holding the sleeve right in front of his face and almost touching his mouth. Then I give him the command and he barks and bites with no hesitation and full force. He did the same with the car -jacking scenario - first time we have ever done that.

Also, for the first time I decoyed for my TD's IPO 1 female GSD, they were practicing - running the blinds while training to get her IPO2 and I took several bites in the blind. That was a very interesting experience - but I will leave it for another topic.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sounds like your advancing nicely. 



Not a fan of a nubee catching a dog unless it's rock solid. 



The IPO I dog may or may not be.


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Bob,

Thanks for your feedback. As for being a decoy - I was in the blind to get the dog to run all the blinds and was switching from blind to blind so she would run all the blinds with full intensity. When she came close to the blind and basically run away and present her the sleeve and she knew what to do. The first time around, I just stepped out and presented her the sleeve and she was totally confused and refused to bite. That's when I was shown how to present the sleeve so she would bite strong - which she did. Hence, my comment - it was interesting. I was under the impression that if a dog knew to bite it would bite - using my own dog as an example - but learned otherwise. I dont want to criticize this female - but that's what she was taught and maybe if taught otherwise she will learn that too.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Correct presentation is a big deal. Sounds like you corrected it!


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I have successfully used the two ball system to out each of my personal patrol dogs I trained and used on the street. each dog outed with no problems during their applications requiring an out after latching on to a bad guy.

I learned this method about 25 years ago and use it in all my patrol dog classes as well. It is the only time I allow using a ball as a reward in the class.


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

https://youtu.be/Tsmnt1N_1P4

Hi Dewon. Here is a short clip of my dog doing his first inner bicep bite with a brand new decoy, in a brand new field, while tied to a bungee. Training for the PDC


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

Looks great!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Zeus Das said:


> https://youtu.be/Tsmnt1N_1P4
> 
> Hi Dewon. Here is a short clip of my dog doing his first inner bicep bite with a brand new decoy, in a brand new field, while tied to a bungee. Training for the PDC





Nice dog!


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Thanks. He bit hard enough that he left a nice bruise on the decoy.


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Last night's training session was interesting. By the time we finished obedience and started protection work it was getting dark - so no videos this time as we were using our car headlights. We wanted to continue with the inner bicep bites as required by PSA, for the first bite - Zeus targeted high on the inner arm and the shoulder and almost nailed the decoy which would have been a nasty situation. In order to avoid that the decoy put on the top half of the bite suit - this time instead of targeting the bicep he took a bite straight to his chest inches away from his face and would not let go despite putting a lot of pressure. As per the decoy - Zeus is targeting him as opposed to the arm (I guess going for the bigger target) - so in a competition that would be a big loss of points, in real life a lot of points. Now we have to take a step back and turn him more into a sports dog and less civil as he is taking it as a fight.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

He had his first bicep bite just 2 days ago. 



This could very well be a targeting issue from the presentation. 



Just a thought!


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Bob, you are probably correct, as the decoy thinks the same thing. He has a tendency of going high so we have to make sure he targets correctly before we send him on a long bite. The decoy how fast he comes in when I was playing fetch with him with the ball and said that we can't do the long bite till he learns to target as both him and Zeus will get hurt if not done right. We may have to double handle him to make sure he targets right.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sounds good!


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Zeus first time on the bite suit – teaching him to target and grabbing full bites. Yesterday he was having some difficulty with the full bite as he was getting used to the suit but even then the force of the bite was intense and he would not let go despite being put under quite a bit or pressure. You can see what type of bruise he left and the decoy said he really hurt him and will have to wear a gauntlet under the suit going forward with Zeus. Both the decoy and another member from an IPO club commented on Zeus’s brute strength of his bite and said that once he learns to take a full bite on the suit and start going on long bites it will HURT!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sounds like the out still needs work but what a bite!


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Correct! Out is still a work in progress. If you click on the photos that are posted on our facebook page on our club website - the one with the nice bruise on the decoy's upper arm is the result of the bite I am referring to.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Zeus Das said:


> Correct! Out is still a work in progress. If you click on the photos that are posted on our facebook page on our club website - the one with the nice bruise on the decoy's upper arm is the result of the bite I am referring to.


Oh my! You must mean this one!

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=5dbf656c153caeeac004c85c64c9d4a1&oe=5BF3F0A0


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The life of a decoy! :lol:


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

Yes mam it certainly is. His bite force is pretty good - the decoy keeps saying it - last night we put him back on the sleeve to work on his grip and he was literally crushing it - the decoy was showing it to me during the actual bite how it was being flattened and he could feel the pressure through the sleeve, and he was wearing the competition grade sleeve (not sure what it means). Also, Zeus was calm as a cucumber even with the pressure using the PSA stick with coke cans being banged all over his head, face, body - only result - increase in bite pressure, no out..


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## Zeus Das (Feb 13, 2018)

https://youtu.be/vUJ7uEt9-qo
https://youtu.be/o_jedtZ54_Q

Here is an update on training the "aus" - 2 short videos. We are finally communicating. The trick was not to fight him on the "aus" by yelling and giving him hard corrections - just have to give the command in a normal tone with a slight tug. He is doing it pretty consistently now. No issues with the ball either - dont need to use 2 balls. Was a HUGE breakthrough, now we can progress on to more advanced stuff - like long send aways, guard and hold, redirecting.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Excellent! 



Yelling commands can work until you might NEED to raise your voice but I'f youve trained by yelling commands you have nowhere to go when that loud command i "might" be needed.


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