# Help needed. PPD training without any support



## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

I am located in a relatively remote location in the Philippines, am an ex-pat (Canadian) and need advice on the best way to train a dog in PPD skills. 

I am able to get a working line GSD that i can go and get and bring home via ferry. But once we are back home, we are basically on our own. There are no dog trainers or any form of dog clubs anywhere near me.

So what i am looking for is suggestions as to how to learn the skills needed to train the puppy to become a companion and PPD. I can get my hands on books and videos so any recommendations are welcome, along with other ideas as to the process for me to learn.

Thanks in advance...


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

You're kind of screwed. You can't work your own dog in defense.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

What options of dogs do you have ? Can't disagree with what Al has said re training but you aren't necessarily screwed, you will need a good dog with good genetics though.

A good dominant and confident, robust pup.... it's how you raise him and not necessarily how you train him.... it may work out and probably in your circumstances, is about your only option. May not be a bad thing.....my humble opinion only.


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## patrick ganley (Oct 6, 2009)

If i were in you're shoes I would try to put together a training club. Possibly by the time your pup is mature you could have members there to work your dog. Could also have all members chip in for equipment, sleeves, suits etc. Just my thoughts, good luck.
Patrick


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

A good PPD doesn't have to be trained in defense only. You can do alot of the prey stuff youself but there will be a time when someone else will have to play the bad guy routine.


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## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

> A good PPD doesn't have to be trained in defense only. You can do alot of the prey stuff youself but there will be a time when someone else will have to play the bad guy routine.





> You're kind of screwed. You can't work your own dog in defense.


I have a couple of locals here that are my friends and are willing to help me with the dog training, they know nothing about the process of training though so will need guidance through the process (as I will too!). We will have to make our own equipment and will need to be very creative and inventive, but that is the nature of living here :-?



> If i were in you're shoes I would try to put together a training club. Possibly by the time your pup is mature you could have members there to work your dog. Could also have all members chip in for equipment, sleeves, suits etc. Just my thoughts, good luck.
> Patrick


The club would be cool, its just that the locals here have no concept of working dogs. I'm afraid it just would not fly. I almost hate to tell you this, but they eat dog around here. Dogs are not a part of the household in this culture.



> What options of dogs do you have ? Can't disagree with what Al has said re training but you aren't necessarily screwed, you will need a good dog with good genetics though.
> 
> A good dominant and confident, robust pup.... it's how you raise him and not necessarily how you train him.... it may work out and probably in your circumstances, is about your only option. May not be a bad thing.....my humble opinion only.


There is a guy from Manila that imports working GSD's from the DDR and Czech Republic. They are used by the Phil's police and customs. I can buy one from him. I think the dog should be OK, maybe not world class, but good. 

What i think i need is guidance towards a source of information as to how to start and go through the training, and of course any well chosen advice you guys can recommend.


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## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

Have you considered purchasing / importing a trained dog? Rather than a puppy? 

It would be easier to do occasional maintenance training with 'casual' untrained decoys in a suit than it would be to train a dog from scratch.

The potential for you to 'ruin' the potential of a good dog or make the dog into a liability is rather high without expert guidance. 
I normally pair experienced decoys with pups / young dogs or new decoys with experienced dogs - the risk of injury, training problems etc. is too great otherwise.

I'm sure someone on the board will be able to point you towards a trustworthy vendor with good dogs that won't rip you off.


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## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

Tanith Wheeler said:


> Have you considered purchasing / importing a trained dog? Rather than a puppy?
> 
> It would be easier to do occasional maintenance training with 'casual' untrained decoys in a suit than it would be to train a dog from scratch.
> 
> ...


That is an interesting idea, I honestly thought you had t train the dog yourself to properly imprint your nuances and style on the dog. I will look into that.


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

Bill:

I know for a fact that there is a working group in Manila. I can't remeber the website but he works and imports Malinois and Shepherds. He may be your best bet. I have seen his posts on pedigree database and claims he supplies and trains dogs for the local PD.

I think its something like Desanto, Desalo, something like that. Use an internet search engine and type in some keywords until you find his site over there.

Good Luck, I have visited Makati a few times in travels, stay dry!!


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## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

jeff gamber said:


> Bill:
> 
> I know for a fact that there is a working group in Manila. I can't remeber the website but he works and imports Malinois and Shepherds. He may be your best bet. I have seen his posts on pedigree database and claims he supplies and trains dogs for the local PD.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jeff, i'll search around for them. I am about a day's travel away from them so they will not be an option as a regular meeting place, but they may have other contacts or even trained dogs available.


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## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

Jerry Lyda said:


> A good PPD doesn't have to be trained in defense only. You can do alot of the prey stuff youself but there will be a time when someone else will have to play the bad guy routine.


Where would i find the materials (instruction in technique) that i need to do the prey training that you mention?


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

This post will definitely be debatable, but here goes:

One of the best trainers in the world is actually located near my home here in Tampa. If you google his name his achievements will speak for themselves and you can make your own judgement. He recently started on an online training application where you can buy lessons from him online. His information:

Ivan Balabanov (google this name)

Training is called: Train per view


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## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks Jeff, i will start with there.

Unfortunately, the place i live is getting too scary to not have some form of protection and being a foreigner I am a real easy target. Firearms are illegal for foreigners and this dog will, hopefully, make me a wonderful companion and a much needed pair of eyes watching my back. Over the last 2 years I have attended too many funerals of foreigners who did nothing but ticked off the wrong person.

The reason for my post here, is that i want to make sure that i don't ruin a good dog by training it badly, teaching it the wrong things or making it impossible to have around as i go about my daily business.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Bill.
Eugene Reyes is the man to speak to in Manila,he is in charge of a French Ring group there.
Visited him a couple of times ,they are doing good work overthere.
You probably can buy an older dog from him also.I didn't know the Philipines were that dangerous,never had a problem there.
Thailand is a lot more mellow,better food among other things.But a lot more dog oriented people in Manila for sure.
I would not spend my money for online training,you can get all the help you need right here!


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

jack van strien said:


> Bill.
> Eugene Reyes is the man to speak to in Manila,he is in charge of a French Ring group there.
> Visited him a couple of times ,they are doing good work overthere.
> You probably can buy an older dog from him also.I didn't know the Philipines were that dangerous,never had a problem there.
> ...


From what I read, Jack, it is different now. There is even some terrorist activity going on there now.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Lee,
yes but that is mostly in the far south,very far from Manila.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

you could go with a breed known for a lot more defense like a rott
way more territorial than i have seen many other breeds


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## Hilde Van Durme (Feb 9, 2010)

It sucks when you have nobody to train with, I know.
Luckely I found here in the DR a pretty good hitman who is willing to come over or I will visit him once a week to train my dogs and there is club of French Ring but then I need to stay overnight because its a hell of a ride to get to him.

At the moment I have a young female malinois, now becoming 10 months who is very promising in PPD. We had a trainingsession this weekend and where she was up till now very lay back, she surprised me this weekend by really "aggresive" encountering with the sleeve but once she got the sleeve she dropped it and kept an eye on the hitman. He challenged here without the sleeve and she defended me fiercely, not dropping for a second her attention to the hitman.
We did a test, me sitting in a chair and hitman just passing by (on a save distance without any protection) and for sure, she growled at him. We did the same with my partner and he could stand next to here and stroke here without any problem :-\"

Luckely I did 8 years of security work (for sport, not for work) with another malinois when I still lived in Belgium so I know how to proceed with here. The federation where I played in with this malinois was a small one which drew itself from Belgian ring and picked up the oldest sport in Belgium of fieldwork because they were convincend that a good PPD needs to be alert and ready not only on his field but every where and in any situation. So we trained every where, old buildings, abanded terrains with all kinds of treats and obstacles like fire, water, pistol, chainsaw, horn,training in darkness, hitman behind a wall or on higher level with some more obstacles so the dog needs to jump, hitman in the water etc...you name it. You need a very strong and independent dog who can follow this program, not the easiest ones to train.

So for me is its now the task of getting that amazing good guarding quality of this young dog under control, taking here as much as possible to strange places to practice and broaden here experencience in guarding not only for me but for here premises which she already is doing by barking but I want here to show that same behaviour as when she is protecting me close by.
So from now its building up towards controlled biting, input from as much different locations as possible and training on those locations too, obedience and building up here confidence even more so she will grow into a very independent self-assured dog who will not back up of any treat.

We finally got the approval of renting a terrain next to our house and I am making a plan to build a wooden construction with stairs, hidden places, bridges who hang on ropes, more stairs but wit round wood (very difficult for dogs to climb), nets and some more nice challenges for a dog to try to get to the hitman.


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## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

jack van strien said:


> Lee,
> yes but that is mostly in the far south,very far from Manila.


I am in the south of the Phils working for a local charity here. I am building housing infrastructure (clean water, sewage, community projects) for very poor communities. This is the whole problem, i am very remote and a long way away from Manila.


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## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

Mike Lauer said:


> you could go with a breed known for a lot more defense like a rott
> way more territorial than i have seen many other breeds


I need a dog that i can have walk around with me, go everywhere i go and ignore the people around me that are no threat. Basically watch my back. I figured a GSD would be the best for that.


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## bill denbigh (Mar 5, 2010)

jack van strien said:


> Bill.
> Eugene Reyes is the man to speak to in Manila,he is in charge of a French Ring group there.
> Visited him a couple of times ,they are doing good work overthere.
> You probably can buy an older dog from him also.I didn't know the Philipines were that dangerous,never had a problem there.
> ...


Thanks, I will try to find him, most of the Phils are fine, most of the time. I am in the south (not all the way but still far enough) and there are too many locals with no money and too many guns around. Unfortunately its not getting any better.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Bill - Here in Costa Rica the locals have a huge fear of big nasty looking dogs. If it is the same there that is half your battle. I guess maybe, unless they want the dog for dinner!

I don't care for the fact you can't pack iron.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

bill denbigh said:


> I need a dog that i can have walk around with me, go everywhere i go and ignore the people around me that are no threat. Basically watch my back. I figured a GSD would be the best for that.


Are you sure? I don't know you circumstances. Maybe you want a dog that looks like he needs to be restrained with a ghetto chain leash, a hair trigger temperament, always ready to rumble.:lol:

Kidding, sort of.


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