# Divorce Agreement



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

an email from mom....



> THIS IS SO INCREDIBLY WELL PUT AND I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT'S BY A YOUNG PERSON, A STUDENT!!! WHATEVER HE RUNS FOR, I'LL VOTE FOR HIM.
> 
> Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives,
> socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al. We have stuck together since the late 1950s, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce.
> ...


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Especially Jane Fonda.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yeah because the last 8 years have been such a blast, right? I can agree to anything as long as you keep your freak leader Rush Limbaugh.:-\" Actually I find that letter to be bitter and devisive, so typical of a sore loser. Have a nice day


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Booo ya =D> =D> =D>


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Happy to take Rush, so long as you take Bill Ayers, John Kerry and Ward Churchill.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> I can agree to anything as long as you keep your freak leader Rush Limbaugh.:-\" Actually I find that letter to be bitter and devisive, so typical of a sore loser. Have a nice day


 Well said.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Well, I'd love to get some examples of the leftist crap that we've had to put up with for the past 8 years (you know, I hope the surge fails!) but unfortunately, my govenment firewall won't let me on Michael Moore's site.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Remember this?



> You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

> "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas,"
> Natalie Maines- The Dixie Chicks


*Heck, I'm ashamed Obama is from the United States...*



> "George Bush is responsible for killing tens of thousands of innocent people."
> Cindy Sheehan


*Wow. I wonder what I'm guilty of, then?*



> "I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a "deserter." What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar and a functional illiterate."
> Michael Moore


*Oh yeah, some real friendly speech there. Real nice.*
*Still trying to figure out what he deserted from, too.*



> "Regime change! George Bush has to go and we have the power to do it. The officials of the government shall be removed from office for crimes and misdemeanor; their crime against peace, and for use of torture in Iraq."
> Ramsey Clark- former Democratic Attorney General (March 31, 2003)


*Again with the undevisive, unbitter speech from the left.*



> "One could say that Osama bin Laden and these non-nation-state fighters with religious purpose are very similar to those kind of atypical revolutionaries that helped to cast off the British crown."
> Marcy Kaptur- Democratic Representative Ohio


*That gives me warm fuzzies.*



> "He's (Osama bin Laden) been out in these countries for decades, building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day-care facilities, building health-care facilities, and these people are extremely grateful. We haven't done that."
> Patty Murray- Democratic Senator Washington (speech to a high school honors class)


*I wish I could say I found that shocking.*


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

We want Bill O'Reilly too! :grin:

Divide and conquer!!! :lol:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh please, I can play that immature and pointless game all day. How stupid.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Alyssa - You've been saving up for this I see! 

This thread is going to get soooo locked real soon me thinks. :lol:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

The only thing I miss about the Bush administration is all the great material they supplied to Comedy Central's The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Alyssa - You've been saving up for this I see!
> 
> This thread is going to get soooo locked real soon me thinks. :lol:


_Almost_ 8 years worth of being called a war criminal and a baby killer, that's all.

It's been festering for awhile.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm still foolishly waiting for President Obama to congratulate the troops for our victory in Iraq.




You'd think I'd have learned by now.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Then I guess you didn't hear what he had to say at Camp LeJeune on 2/26/09:

I am quoting from the transcript found here: 
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/us/politics/27obama-text.html?pagewanted=4&_r=1

"...You make up a fraction of the American population, but in an age when so many people and institutions have acted irresponsibly, you did the opposite – you volunteered to bear the heaviest burden. And for you and for your families, the war does not end when you come home. It lives on in memories of your fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who gave their lives. It endures in the wound that is slow to heal, the disability that isn’t going away, the dream that wakes you at night, or the stiffening in your spine when a car backfires down the street. 
You and your families have done your duty – now a grateful nation must do ours. That is why I am increasing the number of soldiers and Marines, so that we lessen the burden on those who are serving. And that is why I have committed to expanding our system of veterans health care to serve more patients, and to provide better care in more places. We will continue building new wounded warrior facilities across America, and invest in new ways of identifying and treating the signature wounds of this war: Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and Traumatic Brain Injury, as well as other combat injuries. 
We also know that service does not end with the person wearing the uniform. In her visits with military families across the country, my wife Michelle has learned firsthand about the unique burden that your families endure every day. I want you to know this: military families are a top priority for Michelle and me, and they will be a top priority for my administration. We’ll raise military pay, and continue providing quality child-care, job-training for spouses, and expanded counseling and outreach to families that have known the separation and stress of war. We will also heed the lesson of history – that those who fight in battle can form the backbone of our middle class – by implementing a 21st century GI Bill to help our veterans live their dreams. 
As a nation, we have had our share of debates about the war in Iraq. It has, at times, divided us as a people. To this very day, there are some Americans who want to stay in Iraq longer, and some who want to leave faster. But there should be no disagreement on what the men and women of our military have achieved. 
And so I want to be very clear: We sent our troops to Iraq to do away with Saddam Hussein’s regime – and you got the job done. We kept our troops in Iraq to help establish a sovereign government – and you got the job done. And we will leave the Iraqi people with a hard-earned opportunity to live a better life – that is your achievement; that is the prospect that you have made possible. "


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

_"Actually I find that letter to be bitter and devisive, so typical of a sore loser"_

I really don't think we can count the winners or losers by who's actually in office. I've heard it said that "in divorce, there's no winners", and we're all losing at this point. That shining moment of truimph so too, shall fade.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

> Under tough circumstances, the men and women of the United States military have served with honor, and succeeded beyond any expectation ... We sent our troops to Iraq to do away with Saddam Hussein’s regime – and you got the job done. We kept our troops in Iraq to help establish a sovereign government – and you got the job done. And we will leave the Iraqi people with a hard-earned opportunity to live a better life – that is your achievement; that is the prospect that you have made possible.


That's it?

Seriously?


Cheap.

He spent longer whining about PTSD than he did declaring any sort of victory.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Daryl Ehret said:


> _"_That shining moment of truimph so too, shall fade."


Yep, if Rush Limbaugh and the rest of his followers get their twisted wishes.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

No more twisted than the entire left, including the current President of the United States hoping for the Surge to fail. (Which, BTW, I was there for... despite Obama's dancing around it- the surge that he opposed, is what WON the War that he won't declare WON.)


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Gee Alyssa, first you said you were waiting for your "thank you". I showed it to you and now you say it's not enough. Something tells me nothing would be "enough" for you.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Yep, if Rush Limbaugh and the rest of his followers get their twisted wishes.


You'd be surprised of how many FORMER listeners he has. Oreily's not so bad.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm waiting for Victory to be declared.

When the PoTUS says the words "Victory in Iraq", I'll be perfectly mollified.

He danced around the issue and never came out and said that the War in Iraq, Operation Iraqi Freedom, has been won.

Yes, he gave a few slaps on the back, but they were halfhearted and didn't cut to the chase- did we, or didn't we, win the war?

Will there be a day of National Celebration to celebrate our Victory (you know, like after WWI and WWII)?


I mean, he declared ALL of March "National Irish American Heritage Month". 

Can we get just a single DAY? Just a day, Mr. President. That's all we ask.

I think we've earned it.


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## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

Well Daryl,
I thought I had a way of starting debates. I guess you do well here!!!
Mike


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> I'm waiting for Victory to be declared.
> 
> When the PoTUS says the words "Victory in Iraq", I'll be perfectly mollified.
> 
> ...


Oh so now it's not a "thank you", it's a national day you want. **** the increase in pay and benefits, right? **** the fact that he wants our soldiers to get better care and **** the fact that Bush ****ed our soldiers over 6 ways from Sunday. Not Important! He didn't give you a "day" so it's not enough.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Increase in pay (and taxes... so in the end, I'm really back to square one...).

BTW, President Bush is the one who instituted yearly pay increases and drastically upped the COLA amounts for our military, in his very first year in office.

What benefits? They just pared down Tricare Prime for retirees even more, upping the cost, and bumping a ton of people out of Military Treatment Facilities.

Because of the reallocation of funds, most National Guards states have had to go into a complete hiring freeze for Techinicians and funds for AGRs are virtually at a standstill.


No, he didn't declare VICTORY, and it will never be enough until he does.


We won. Why is it so hard for everyone to say it?


WE WON OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM.

VICTORY DECLARED IN OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM. 

Why so difficult?

Strangly, President Bush still has overwhelming support from the military.

So, maybe we disagree that we've been "f*cked over six ways from Sunday".

How about having media taking pictures of the fallen's caskets, and gays shoved down our throats, YET AGAIN!
Perhaps THATS f*cking us over.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Alyssa you said: 

"and gays shoved down our throats, YET AGAIN!
Perhaps THATS f*cking us over."

Gays shoved down your throat??? WTF does that mean Alyssa and exactly how does that **** ANYONE ove?


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Mike Di Rago said:


> Well Daryl,
> I thought I had a way of starting debates. I guess you do well here!!!
> Mike


I think I just triggered it (it's been building drive), I'm not too involved in this one. I'm too sensible and open-minded for this, and not very knowledgeable of the factual details.

If we're discussing the war, my little brother had just finished his third tour in Iraq, and was getting ready to go back again, but has suffered PTS and mild brain damage (exposive concussions). Within the first weeks of his first tour, he had to pick up the crisp remains of one of his buddies who didn't make it. But war is all he's known since a kid, and what has made himself feel of useful importance. He's a hero to me, and I believe he deserves closure and recognition for his efforts, not shuffled under the carpet.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

President Obama is reviewing the current "don't ask, don't tell" policy, with the intent to change the policy to allow gays to serve openly.

You know, don't allow the services to make their own decisions or anything...


"Cause you know, the military is the PERFECT playground for the left's social experiments.

We're not uh, preoccupied with a war, or anything.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Ya have to make sure the right takes Ann Coulter too! I can't beleive I share a last name with that woman](*,) :lol: :wink: 

One of the great things about WDF is that so many poeple of different interests, politics, ages, backrounds etc...can come together and discuss a common interest and learn from each other with open minds.... for the most part8) O O 

Just like a tree hugging, universal heath care having, non hand gun owning Canadian to say something stupid like the above eh?! :roll: #-o 

P.S. I love talking politics...not so much in my utopian WDF world though:wink:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Ya have to make sure the right takes Ann Coulter too! I can't beleive I share a last name with that woman](*,) :lol: :wink:
> 
> One of the great things about WDF is that so many poeple of different interests, politics, ages, backrounds etc...can come together and discuss a common interest and learn from each other with open minds.... for the most part8) O O
> 
> ...


Oh god yes, please take that horrible Ann Coulter!!!! They can have their holy grail: Oreilly, Coulter, Limbaugh!!!!

Wow, Alyssa, you have a lot to learn about gay people. They are no different than anyone else, and don't worry they wouldn't dare hit on you. =; A persons or group of people's unwarranted and irrational homophobic fear is no reason to continue to allow discrimination to continue in any form. In our very recent history African American soldiers were at one time segregated from their lilly white counterparts. That was a bad idea too.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm not a homophobe.

However, there are logistical problems inherant in allowing gays to serve openly, that the general public doesn't take into consideration.



Combining male and female Basic Training in all branches (but the Marine Corps) was a mess, and has seriously degraded the quality of the military, as it is. We have President Clinton to thank for THAT mess.
His Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy was, however, and still is, a very good policy.

As it is, it's a logistical nightmare where women in the military are concerned.
Seperate billets, latrines, showers, etc.

How do you facilitate that, with homosexuals? 
Now we have to have a male heterosexual shower, a female heterosexual shower, a male homosexual shower and a female homosexual shower? Eghads, what about bisexuals?

To take it further, is a transgendered person to be considered male or female, for the purposes of allowing them access to male only MOSs?

Do we allow homosexuals into the Infantry? Special Forces? Or just MOSs open to females?

Do we allow gays to have sex in a combat theatre? Or do they fall under the same rules as heterosexual sex in the combat theatre? Is the policy only designed to prevent pregnancy, or is it designed to prevent sex in general?

The Uniform Code of Military Justice still prohibits sodomy. Isn't being gay and serving openly a bit like declaring that you are flagrantly violating the UCMJ?

I'm not a homophobe, I just realize that there are millions of logistical questions to be addressed, and a time of war is not the time to attempt such a radical change in the structure of our Armed Forces.

Don't ask, don't tell, don't harass is a perfectly effective policy, and should remain in effect until the services themselves determine they have a better plan of action.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

How does the military go about deciding who counts as a "spouse" for benefit's purposes, and who doesn't? 

Do we honor civil unions?

What if the two parties aren't able to obtain a civil union in the their state of legal residence? Do we deny them benefits?

Is allowing two gay soldiers with a civill union to cohabitate in a combat zone fair to two married heterosexual soldiers who may not be allowed to cohabitate?



The issues at hand are different from the integration of blacks into the military.

Jim Crow was just pure hatred and racism.

There are true logistical problems that have to be worked out before we can change our current policies.

In the meantime, gays can and do serve with distinction and honor in the US Military. They just have to keep their personal lives personal, until such time as they leave the service.

It's not as though we go around taking back peoples' retirement when we find out they're gay.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

JUST stop! They are PEOPLE. The fact that they like the same sex in bed has NOTHING to do with combat, or showers or any of the "logistics" you bring up. The MEN shower with the MEN and the WOMEN shower with the WOMEN, REGARDLESS of what they like to do in bed. And as far as sodomy goes, I hate to break it to you but a lot of heterosexuals also like butt ****ing and I am pretty sure they still do the nasty regarless of whether or not the military "allows" it. As far as civil unions, I guess you aren't aware of changes in laws which now allow gay partners or non-gay partners to qualify for benefits, same as their married counterparts. Yes, the military does need to "get with the program"

"Don't ask Don't tell" is unfair and wrong. There is nothing wrong with someone who is gay and they do not have to be ashamed or afraid or not allowed to "tell". "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is the very definition of Institutional Homophobia. You say you aren't homophobic, yet you defend the practice, as evidenced by your remark about "gays being shoved down our throats". That is homophobic.

Stop kidding yourself. The issues are no different. Discrimination based on irrational fears is wrong no matter what.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
Ya have to make sure the right takes Ann Coulter too! I can't beleive I share a last name with that woman 

This is an amazing thing. A hot chick in politics, I don't actually listen to her speak, though. She has hectic drive, and needs better training. I am always amazed by discussions of politics. Politicians are all whores, always have been, but in this country, they finally figured out that they can do whatever they want, as all we will do about it is bitch.

The kid that wrote the letter is funny, and I give him his divorce, he can go wherever he wants.

I do worry about what is happening, who are these people to give out all this money ???? I didn't know we had it all to give away ???

I thought we were a capitalist society. Worked pretty good for a couple of hundred years. But what do I know ?


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I've never said that a homosexual person is any less of a person than a heterosexual one.

A few things to keep in mind, however are that 1) Serving in the Armed Forces of the United States is neither a civil right, nor a legal one. It is a priviledge.

We deny entry to many other people for many other reasons. Frankly, we don't deny anyone entry to the Armed Forces for being homosexual, as they are not required nor encouraged at any point to disclose their sexuality.

I have served alongside many soldiers whom I knew to be homosexual.
I never had a problem with them. They were every bit as good as the straight soldier.

2) We do not allow women in the military to sleep in the same barracks or use the same showers.
Why? Because heterosexual men and women are sexually attracted to one another.

Homosexual men are attracted to men. 

If we cannot permit heterosexual men and women to shower together due to concerns of sexual attraction, how can we then permit homosexual men to shower with those parties to which theyare sexual attracted? And the same for homosexual women.

Or should we just let everyone shower together? Just one big shower? That's one approach, although I must admit, I wouldn't want to shower with someone whom I knew was sexually attracted to me, man or woman- other than my husband. 

3) Again, do we allow homosexual men into Special Forces? The Infantry? Rangers? FISTers? COLTs?

You only answered one question, and not really to any level of satisfaction.
How can we in good conscience segregate straight men and women, and then not do the same with homosexuals? Seems a tad unfair, in policy, now doesn't it?

Lets say I'll conceed the shower issue, what about the many other issues I posed?

I don't think Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a great policy- but it's the best we've got. Until someone can come up with a better one, I think we should keep doing what has worked for the past 15+ years.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> JUST stop! They are PEOPLE. The fact that they like the same sex in bed has NOTHING to do with combat, or showers or any of the "logistics" you bring up. The MEN shower with the MEN and the WOMEN shower with the WOMEN, REGARDLESS of what they like to do in bed. And as far as sodomy goes, I hate to break it to you but a lot of heterosexuals also like butt ****ing and I am pretty sure they still do the nasty regarless of whether or not the military "allows" it. As far as civil unions, I guess you aren't aware of changes in laws which now allow gay partners or non-gay partners to qualify for benefits, same as their married counterparts. Yes, the military does need to "get with the program"
> 
> "Don't ask Don't tell" is unfair and wrong. There is nothing wrong with someone who is gay and they do not have to be ashamed or afraid or not allowed to "tell". "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is the very definition of Institutional Homophobia. You say you aren't homophobic, yet you defend the practice, as evidenced by your remark about "gays being shoved down our throats". That is homophobic.
> 
> Stop kidding yourself. The issues are no different. Discrimination based on irrational fears is wrong no matter what.


Great post. I couldn't agree more.

Julie


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

So, can anyone actually ADDRESS my concerns, or is the standard response just to call me a homophobe?

(BTW, I SUPPORT Gay Marriage. I just think we've got a lot more planning and testing to do before we can allow gays to serve openly.)


The laws regarding benefits for gay partners vary from state to state. The military is a Federal institution and the benefits are also Federal.
The Federal Law would have to be changed before it would affect the military's benefits.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

(BTW, I SUPPORT Gay Marriage. I just think we've got a lot more planning and testing to do before we can allow gays to serve openly.)

I would think serving in the military and being openly gay, at least for the men, might be detrimental to their health.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Gays in the military is an interesting discussion, usually done by older more experienced people.

When I was in the Marine Corps, most of us were late teen, early 20's and have the basic dominant male of the species thought process. There is something in the back of your head that says that being a *** is wrong.

Now the older people are telling you you have to put up with a queer. I saw this "ideal" fail many different times. Most of these kids got put into the hospital, because "older" "more mature" people want "their" version of the world to happen.

I am not a homophobe, never have been, to the point of getting called a *** lover as I did not feel like beating the crap out of some guy we saw on his knees having a moment with some civilian.

I just walked away, but the guy got a beating. NO ONE in my unit thought it was appropriate for a US Marine to be on his knees like that. 

Wow, tough to imagine how bad it went. If it were not for the fact I was capable of beating the shit out of all three of the Marines I was with, they were ready to bash me for having just walked away. Idealism is cute, just doesn't alway work the way the idealists want.

As it was, I had to bash one of my friends head repeatedly with a bathroom door to convince him that I was not gay, I just didn't care what some *** wanted to do on his own time.

Might want to think of who would actually be dealing with this, and not just what YOU think.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Unfortunately, civilians, the folks who push for this change, have no understanding of what they're trying to do.


They don't seem to grasp the concept of being in close quarters with someone, under extreme stress, no privacy for months on end.


We keep women out of combat arms, and ultimately the main reason has to do with sexuality.

So, should we keep homosexuals out of combat arms?


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> JUST stop! They are PEOPLE. The fact that they like the same sex in bed has NOTHING to do with combat, or showers or any of the "logistics" you bring up. The MEN shower with the MEN and the WOMEN shower with the WOMEN, REGARDLESS of what they like to do in bed...


Unless things have changed, when I was in a Marine infantry unit we were in close proximity 24/7. Having a couple guys f***** each other does not help unit cohesion. Regardless what Obama does I suspect the openly gay will be welcomed in the USMC as they always have been, with a blanket party.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Nah, the Corps will probably did exactly what they did when Clinton tried to gender integrate Basic/Boot.

They'll refuse to comply.

Period.


(The Army would be better off if we had followed suit and not gender integrated Basic.)


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Nah, the Corps will probably did exactly what they did when Clinton tried to gender integrate Basic/Boot.
> 
> They'll refuse to comply.
> 
> ...


OORAH!


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Gays in the military is an interesting discussion, usually done by older more experienced people.


Really?

Usually the old hands don't even bother discussing it.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

NOW This is where your argument really falls apart. Gays are in the military, they just can't say they are gay. They have to be secret gays. 

So.........................where do these secret gay soldiers shower now? This means all the secret gay people are laying their heads on their pillows right next to a same sex guy or gal in the next bunk. Not sure what you keep bringing up special forces for, being gay has nothing to do with that either, and since they "don't tell" I bet they are in special forces right now, too!

So other than people not being treated as if there was something so horribly wrong with them they can't let anyone know, you tell me? Who is benefited by 'don't ask don't tell" other than you homophobs?

What don't we get Alyssa? What the hell are you so afraid of? By your own admission they are already there, and serve with distinction! What in your mind will change by allowing them the dignity to say who they are?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Really?

Usually the old hands don't even bother discussing it.

Civilian old people with ideals. Not clear about that.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Because currently, they have to keep their homosexuality to themselves.

That means that they can't hit on, make sexual advances to or comments about members of the same sex.

Change the rules, they can do ALL of those things.


Currently, there is no cause for concern about two PFCs getting it on in the shower, because those two PFCs aren't going to risk having sex and getting outted.

Remove the risk of "outting", and you remove the deterrant.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I was litterally dumbfounded at the Clinton administrations introduction of "stress cards" worn around the necks of student soldiers in basic training. Where, if they felt it was getting too tough, they could hold up their card and call for a time out?!

Only f***ing liberals could be so idiotic. Maybe if they were imprinted properly in their youth and not fed a bunch of BS fanciful idealistic views and protected from all of life's stresses, but enforced with discipline and exposed to hardship, they could be "full package". Or, at leasted weaned by the age 25...

I'm a bit shocked to find any liberals here, for I honestly believed the majority of the true workingdog crowd must come from competent and self sufficient minds, those who value what a "working dog" should truly be, its most basic premise.

Unfortunately, it's rather popular to maintain the attitude of elevated status for having not judged a person by this or that, and they feel that makes them a better person. But reality is, you have to set standards, and you have to maintain those standards. My stance of gays is one of tolerance, and without assigning them special privelidge. But gays couldn't cause near the ruin that liberals could.

(BTW: I don't support marriage of liberals ;-) )


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Really?
> 
> Usually the old hands don't even bother discussing it.
> 
> Civilian old people with ideals. Not clear about that.


Yeah well, civilians... there's no accounting for 'em, is there?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Not sure what you keep bringing up special forces for, being gay has nothing to do with that either, and since they "don't tell" I bet they are in special forces right now, too!

Not in my experience. The last thing anyone would want is to get "outed" by those guys. I hate to tell you, but you really can't hide queer in those types of units.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Meh, yes and no.

They had a guy a few years ago, did 20+ in the SF.

Retired, and immediately had a sex change.

Of course, transgendered isn't the same as gay... but.


Again, he kept his personal life, personal, and thus there was no conflict.
He's not going to be hitting on dudes in the GP Medium at night, and eyeballing his battle buddy in the shower. He had to keep up appearances.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Yeah well, civilians... there's no accounting for 'em, is there?


And just so you know, my father is a Colonel, served in [email protected] & Korea, my grandfather died in battle before I ever got the chance to meet him, my brother served in VietNam. And that's just my immediate family. You know what there is no accounting for? Homophobes who are so scared they can't even see straight.

So what about it Alyssa? I have asked you a couple times. If there are currently gays in the military what about all your so called "issues"? Where's your logic? How do things change just people no longer have to hide the fact that they are gay?


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> I was litterally dumbfounded at the Clinton administrations introduction of "stress cards" worn around the necks of student soldiers in basic training. Where, if they felt it was getting too tough, they could hold up their card and call for a time out?!)


Ah Daryl, Daryl Daryl...

Stress cards are a myth.
A well perpetrated myth.


Just like "moderate liberals".


But seriously, http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.asp


Besides, who needs a stress card, when you can just scream "Sexual Harassment!!!" and run to the EO office?


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> And just so you know, my father is a Colonel, served in [email protected] & Korea, my grandfather died in battle before I ever got the chance to meet him, my brother served in VietNam. And that's just my immediate family. You know what there is no accounting for? Homophobes who are so scared they can't even see straight.


 
Wow. My uncle can fly a helicopter.

I guess by relation, I'm an expert in rotary wing aviation, eh?


Thank your brother for his service, though.


I guess your only rational defense is to call me a homophobe. That's cool. I know what I am, and what I'm not.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> ...
> So other than people not being treated as if there was something so horribly wrong with them they can't let anyone know, you tell me? Who is benefited by 'don't ask don't tell" other than you homophobs?


Uh. The gays themselves. Unless they like "blanket parties". 

Most don't care if they are there, they just don't want to know.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

You're starting to sound like a homophobophobe. Why are you making it all about gays anyway? _"Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al."_


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

The best part is, no one ever touched the photographing caskets remark I made, in the same post as the gays in the military one.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Stop avoiding the issue, stop trying to change the subject and answer the question, if you can. If there are currently gays serving in the military, why would there all the sudden be a whole new host of issues just because they now say they are gay?

You know what? Forget it. You can't. Your done. But have a nice day anyway!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> .... This thread is going to get soooo locked real soon me thinks. :lol:


Methinks so too.

Once again, this is a dog-training site.

There are some topics that are fun or informative to open in the Lounge forum, but divisive political (or religious, for that matter) threads .... not here.

Thanks.


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## Jared Martin (Jan 22, 2009)

... deleted message posted as thread was being closed ...


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