# False Pregnancy



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

Hi Guys. I have a 4 yr old female Malinois imported as a pup from Belgium. She was mated on two occasions and both turned out false with all the symptoms such as enlarged nipples, milk etc.

Will appreciate constructive advise, suggestions, opinions and help.


----------



## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Hi Sayyed

What is it you want opinions on, exactly?


----------



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

Hi Jessica,

Will like to know what could be the cause, what to look out for, what i should do the next time around or is it a dead end and I should shelve plans in breeding her.

Thank you.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

You are in Malaysia, right? I would ask your vet if they have any recommendations for a reproductive vet (if they don't feel confident doing it themselves) for a work up to help you trouble shoot what is going on. In the States, I'd recommend someone who was a member of the Society of Theriogenology or some of the other organizations, but not sure who to go to in your area. Sometimes it is simply a timing issue (i.e.-bred too early), sometimes it is something else.


----------



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

Yes Maren Malaysia. She is under the care of a professor specialized in animal reproduction at a local university. Progesterone tests and other relevant tests were conducted during the process of breeding. The first breeding was AI and the second natural.

Thank you.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Sayyed Alif Khan said:


> Hi Guys. I have a 4 yr old female Malinois imported as a pup from Belgium. She was mated on two occasions and both turned out false with all the symptoms such as enlarged nipples, milk etc.
> 
> Will appreciate constructive advise, suggestions, opinions and help.


 
Hi:

If she were mine, I'd:

1) check her thyroid--Dr. Jean Dodds Homeopet or Michigan panel
2 ) Day 1, you notice she's in season, serial vaginal smears and every other day progesterone
3) Ultrasound mid gestation
4) x-ray around Day 55

First, after checking thyroid function, you need to make sure you don't have a timing issue and that she is bred on the correct day(s). After that with a first timer, I like to confirm the prenancy by ultrasound. Some bitches can get pregnant and then later reabsorb the litter. I've had ultrasound confirm the pregancy and then xray negative for skeletons. Also, some folks would order a vaginal culture/sensitivity prior to the season just to make sure you don't have a bacteria overgrowth issue--especially something like mycoplasma. I assume you've done brucellosis.

On the male side, brucellosis, culture/sensitivity, sperm check/evaluation. It matters also if you are doing an actual breeding vs. AI w/ fresh chilled or frozen, or surgical implant. Its worth a look see under the microscope to make sure you've got good sperm structure, count, and motility.

If you google "canine reproduction" there's lots out there to get you started.

Oh yeah--diet?

Terrasita


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I"d think the possibility she was pregnant and didn't carry to term more likely then two consecutive false pregnancies.


----------



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Hi:
> 
> If she were mine, I'd:
> 
> ...


Hi Terrasita,

Items 1,2 &3 were done. Timing was determined by the progesterone levels (specialized vet). Ultrasound showed negative. Vagina culture was not done, something to keep in mind for future. Mycoplasma & brucellosis both done and negative. AI was fresh semen and all relevant tests were done with good results.

Diet, raw food.

Thank you for your input Terrasita and yes I have been goggling.


----------



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

Yes Thomas that is a possibility, but 3 ultrasounds were done as of day 21 and all of which turned out negative.

Thank you.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

cause is unknown.

Advice, keep trying to breed her if you want to.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Sayyed Alif Khan said:


> Hi Terrasita,
> 
> Items 1,2 &3 were done. Timing was determined by the progesterone levels (specialized vet). Ultrasound showed negative. Vagina culture was not done, something to keep in mind for future. Mycoplasma & brucellosis both done and negative. AI was fresh semen and all relevant tests were done with good results.
> 
> ...


If they did mycoplasma and it was done 3 weeks or so before, then that clears it and I'm assuming it was a full culture/sensitivity. I'm assuming when they put the fresh chilled under the scope before the AI, you had swimmers w/ good morphology and there were no issues with the extender. Now, there are issues with the raw diet and pregnancy. You need a carbohydrate source and a balanced diet. There is a WDF thread on this somewhere. I think Geoff Empey did some good posts on this. I'd also want balanced calcium/phosphorus on a preganant/lactating bitch. Old school would say try witha different male and assuming there were no vaccinations, antibiotics or other drugs that could interfere, there shouldn't be an issue. Since you're dealing with a repro specialist, what was their take on it. Ultimately, you have to consider if you want to start a line with a bitch that has repro issues. It tends to be a heritable issue. You might want to inquire about her mother line and her litter sisters in this regard. Keep us posted.

Terrasita


----------



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

Sorry guys (general gender reference) for the delayed response. 

Joby, I am certainly going to try again with a different stud and may be again if it does not happen. 

Terrasita, the repro specialist's advise is to try again with a different stud (normal mating). They cant find any issues. Diet was complemented with carbo etc as advised by specialist and no vaccination, antibiotics or any other form of drugs. Yes I intend to investigate her female siblings one of which is in the US. Both parents side, there are no known breeding issues.

I will certainly keep this post alive as to progress.

To all of you, thank you very much ................


----------



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> If they did mycoplasma and it was done 3 weeks or so before, then that clears it and I'm assuming it was a full culture/sensitivity. I'm assuming when they put the fresh chilled under the scope before the AI, you had swimmers w/ good morphology and there were no issues with the extender. Now, there are issues with the raw diet and pregnancy. You need a carbohydrate source and a balanced diet. There is a WDF thread on this somewhere. I think Geoff Empey did some good posts on this. I'd also want balanced calcium/phosphorus on a preganant/lactating bitch. Old school would say try witha different male and assuming there were no vaccinations, antibiotics or other drugs that could interfere, there shouldn't be an issue. Since you're dealing with a repro specialist, what was their take on it. Ultimately, you have to consider if you want to start a line with a bitch that has repro issues. It tends to be a heritable issue. You might want to inquire about her mother line and her litter sisters in this regard. Keep us posted.
> 
> Terrasita


Hi everyone,

We had a no fuss breeding producing 5 males 4 females. Natural normal breeding/whelping. Conclusion; just timing.

Thank you everyone.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Sayyed Alif Khan said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We had a no fuss breeding producing 5 males 4 females. Natural normal breeding/whelping. Conclusion; just timing.
> 
> Thank you everyone.


Awesome! Same stud? Didn't you use progesterone for timing before?


T


----------



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

Yes awesome, great pups. Please just humor me. Tried 2 Malinois studs. They were too short and could not engage. A White Shepherd stud was around so we gave it a shot and all went well. Pups 7 black/tan, 3 Malinois. No whites. Pups weighed between 500 to 600 grams at 1 week and are all doing well. Temperament very much Malinois. Pups are now 12 weeks. 

No tests whatsoever was done and no Vet follow-up or intervention or meds. Previous progesterone test indicated 13/14 day as ideal mating marker so just followed that.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Sayyed Alif Khan said:


> Yes awesome, great pups. Please just humor me. Tried 2 Malinois studs. They were too short and could not engage. A White Shepherd stud was around so we gave it a shot and all went well. Pups 7 black/tan, 3 Malinois. No whites. Pups weighed between 500 to 600 grams at 1 week and are all doing well. Temperament very much Malinois. Pups are now 12 weeks.
> 
> No tests whatsoever was done and no Vet follow-up or intervention or meds. Previous progesterone test indicated 13/14 day as ideal mating marker so just followed that.


 
Now that we've done the humor part, what's the real story?

T


----------



## Sayyed Alif Khan (May 12, 2011)

What said is the real story. The stud was a White Shepherd. The Malinois studs are not my own. My Malinois stud which got me to appreciate the Malinois passed on unexpectedly a few months before the female got into season. It was an extremely sad moment for me & the family as I very much wanted his progeny, that's why I imported the female from Belgium, a daughter of Zep. My stud's paternal grandfather was A-Kolos and maternal grandmother was Turcodos and he was an awesome fella. The best dog I ever had.........


----------

