# french mal or dutch mal?



## Jack Lee

I really can not understand the difference of french mal an dutch mal. but it is also hot very topic china.
Chinese mals for police department are mainly imported from french .So my mals should be french mals. they are quick ,high-energy , but a little bigger sharp. 
some dutch mals(KNPV mals) is also imported from Holland at very high price , the male mal is quite no big by picture . 
Also , in chinese dog market some kennel claims their dutch mals as yellow colored and strong civil aggresion.
In US, some PPD kennel and training company says they prefer dutch mals for balanced drives,
I also found one Finland(by memory) kennel bought dutch mals for their stability ,after they got achievement in sports .
So my question is 
1) dutch mal are really better than frech mal (in general) for PPD?
2) dutch mal is usually mixed type even with papers?
3) dutch mals are so much mixed ,so the are not malinois but dutch mals?

thanks.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

There will be a difference because of what is required in the sport. It is personal preference more than "better" or "worse" a good dog is a good dog. : )

What is up with hacking US computers being a national sport over there ?? I have been meaning to ask you.


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## Jack Lee

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There will be a difference because of what is required in the sport. It is personal preference more than "better" or "worse" a good dog is a good dog. : )
> 
> What is up with hacking US computers being a national sport over there ?? I have been meaning to ask you.



Soryy ,jeff, 
do you mean some chinese like to hack us computer?
I notice some month ago , news said US agaist chines goverment hack us computers.

I think , it is not likely. because , chinese economics is largely depedent on US.

My opinion is :
China today is so "democratic" ,it is beyond your imagination,
I want to say , usually , Goverment does not take strict law at people's behavior,
That is why US computers are hacked.(if it is true.)


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Looking for the "middle" if that makes sense. THey say that between two stories, the truth is in the "middle"

KNPV Mals are really different. : ) Got to try one at least.


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## Christopher Jones

There is also a difference between the FCI Pedigreed KNPV Malis and the Unregsitered KNPV Malis. You would need to find out about which KNPV Malis they were talking about.
You also should look at the NVBK Bloodline dogs as they are different to the French and KNPV dogs.
Thats the good thing with the Mali, theres lots to choose from.


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## Kadi Thingvall

To add even more confusion to the mix, there are also the French Kennel, but Belgian based dogs  I've got a couple dogs that if you look at the paperwork only you would think are "French" because their pedigree is all kennels in France. But those kennels actually use mainly Belgian bloodlines in their breedings, so I consider these dogs more Belgian then French. 


1) dutch mal are really better than frech mal (in general) for PPD?

This is completely personal preference. I've seen good and bad dogs from all countries and programs.

2) dutch mal is usually mixed type even with papers?

In general, yes.

3) dutch mals are so much mixed ,so the are not malinois but dutch mals?

Depends on who you talk to. Some people only consider them Malinois if they are many generations of only Malinois, others consider them Malinois if they are fawn with a black mask, even if one of their close ancestors was a brindle dog or other breed. Usually I do hear people using the terms "Dutch Malinois" or "KNPV Malinois" to indicate the dog is a mix breed from Holland, or from bloodlines from Holland (if born in the US). On occasion I will also hear them referred to as unregistered Malinois.


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## James Degale

Good info. But could people be more specific about the differences for those of us who are not as familiar with the various types, temperament wise, attitude, size. Thanks in advance, appreciate it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

James, you should get a dog from Dick and Selena. AND, today and today only, I am not ****ing with you. This would be a great match for you.


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## Kyle Sprag

I think it depends as much on the individual dog as anything.

I have lived with 4 KNPV Mals and 3 French/Belgian dogs.

Known many more of each.


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## Christopher Jones

Kadi Thingvall said:


> To add even more confusion to the mix, there are also the French Kennel, but Belgian based dogs  I've got a couple dogs that if you look at the paperwork only you would think are "French" because their pedigree is all kennels in France. But those kennels actually use mainly Belgian bloodlines in their breedings, so I consider these dogs more Belgian then French.
> 
> 
> 1) dutch mal are really better than frech mal (in general) for PPD?
> 
> This is completely personal preference. I've seen good and bad dogs from all countries and programs.
> 
> 2) dutch mal is usually mixed type even with papers?
> 
> In general, yes.
> 
> 3) dutch mals are so much mixed ,so the are not malinois but dutch mals?
> 
> Depends on who you talk to. Some people only consider them Malinois if they are many generations of only Malinois, others consider them Malinois if they are fawn with a black mask, even if one of their close ancestors was a brindle dog or other breed. Usually I do hear people using the terms "Dutch Malinois" or "KNPV Malinois" to indicate the dog is a mix breed from Holland, or from bloodlines from Holland (if born in the US). On occasion I will also hear them referred to as unregistered Malinois.


The rate also at which the unregistered dogs (KNPV and NVBK) have been bred into the pedigree dogs also has to be understood. You will find two breeders with similar pedigrees, but very dissimilar dogs. 
Also within the different gene pools there are different bloodlines which produce very different types of dogs. 
In general people say that the French dogs are high prey, smaller, faster and more agile compared to say the KNPV dogs. The NVBK dogs are considered to be more on the "civil" side of things and generally less social than the KNPV dogs. The Unregistered KNPV dogs are generally more calmer than the French dogs for instance, but as they are bigger dogs, with bigger bone you might expect to see this trait. And on it goes. 
Basically the biggest issue is if you want pedigrees or not. If you dont care about them you have twice the gene pool to pick from.


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## kristin tresidder

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> James, you should get a dog from Dick and Selena. AND, today and today only, I am not ****ing with you. This would be a great match for you.


i would certainly recommend them as very good people to deal with. :grin:


jeff, now i'm gonna read all of your posts to myself in a radio voice-over voice. "and toDAY ONly!" lol


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## Curtis McHail

I agree...only a moron would condemn a whole country worth of dogs. There are good dogs in every program. But I will say what many seem to be beating around the bush about: Most French Mals have little aggression. They're dogs who enjoy to bite. But they are (usually) in the mindset that "I will take punishment for my bite!". Good KNPV and NVBK lined Mals have aggression, their mindset is "I will punish you for punishing me". Put a French dog on a NVBK decoy and I wouldn't be surprised if he abandoned the bite out of sheer boredom. Put an NVBK dog on a French decoy and I wouldn't be surprised if he refused to out.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Who taught you this shit ?? Who gives a **** about aggression ?? Oh that's right your one of those "PP" guys.

Try using a measuring tape to measure, and not your dick. LOL


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## Curtis McHail

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Who taught you this shit ?? Who gives a **** about aggression ?? Oh that's right your one of those "PP" guys.
> 
> Try using a measuring tape to measure, and not your dick. LOL


 
Who cares about aggression? Me when a dog refuses to bite anything not made of jute or french linen! Or when a dog gets hit, HARD, and has the dazed "You play too rough!" look and runs behind me barking. Then again you're a "Mondio" guy who's probably never handled a dog in a real life situation. One who assumes more than an intelligent guy would.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I don't need a dog in a real life situation. I don't need to hit a dog hard, and I am sure that your real life situation is a lot of fantasy.

If anyone hit any of my dogs hard enough to make them run behind me, I am gonna put them in an uncomfortable position until they start crying.

If you are in such a sucky neighborhood, then move. I wander all over the place and have had no need for a dog. 

LOOK THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING. LOL


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## Curtis McHail

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I don't need a dog in a real life situation. I don't need to hit a dog hard, and I am sure that your real life situation is a lot of fantasy.
> 
> If anyone hit any of my dogs hard enough to make them run behind me, I am gonna put them in an uncomfortable position until they start crying.
> 
> If you are in such a sucky neighborhood, then move. I wander all over the place and have had no need for a dog.
> 
> LOOK THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING. LOL


 
Of course you don't NEED a PPD...cops don't NEED PSDs...some departments don't have K9 Units and chase the bad guys themselves...but it's a nice option other than shooting somebody center mass. Again the bright comedian knows what situations strangers and their dogs have been in! Take your French Mals to the Middle Eastern Theatre, go looking for the boogey man down a few dark alleys, or try your uncomfortable YMCA Judo holds on a 250lbs doped up naked man on pcp and let me know how that works out for ya'!!! If you're so gutted about your dogs not being suitable for real work stick to sport or stop making excuses for your dogs, neuter and spay them, and buy better dogs :grin:


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## chris haynie

i have been interviewing breeders and meeting lots of mals recently. 

I have noticed the KNPV mals i have met are bigger than the french ones. not really dimensionally larger but thicker, more muscled and of bigger bone. 

The french mals i met were simialr in size and structure to the belgians mals i met.

I saw the french mals, the belgian mals, and the knpv mals all work. i don't really know enough about the work to form an expert opinion but i seem to recall them all being beasts on the decoys. the lighter french and belgian dogs were faster. 

curtis, what are your qualifications and/or experience again?

i must have missed the list of verifiable credentials / handler experience you posted before all the smack talk.


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## Mike Scheiber

Curtis McHail said:


> Of course you don't NEED a PPD...cops don't NEED PSDs...some departments don't have K9 Units and chase the bad guys themselves...but it's a nice option other than shooting somebody center mass. Again the bright comedian knows what situations strangers and their dogs have been in! Take your French Mals to the Middle Eastern Theatre, go looking for the boogey man down a few dark alleys, or try your uncomfortable YMCA Judo holds on a 250lbs doped up naked man on pcp and let me know how that works out for ya'!!! If you're so gutted about your dogs not being suitable for real work stick to sport or stop making excuses for your dogs, neuter and spay them, and buy better dogs :grin:


Were you on Dragnet


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Maybe this is your problem.

Quote: Take your French Mals to the Middle Eastern Theatre, go looking for the boogey man down a few dark alleys, or try your uncomfortable YMCA Judo holds on a 250lbs doped up naked man on pcp and let me know how that works out for ya'!!!

First off, if I am in the middle eastern theatre, what movie am I watching that I need a dog ?? 

Second, Why the **** am I going down dark alleys to LOOK for the bogey man ??

Third, everyone knows you don't GRAB someone on PCP. However, if I did, I would have a ten pound advantage on him. Maybe you are a pune, and that is the problem.

Fourth, The YMCA has Judo ??

Fifth, You know **** all about training a dog if you think training with a big ****ing stick is the way to go. Do you have a lot of handler aggression problems ??

Well, you sound like an idiot. Good luck with that.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Mike Scheiber said:


> Were you on Dragnet


Or "Car 54" :-D


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## Kyle Sprag

Curtis McHail said:


> Of course you don't NEED a PPD...cops don't NEED PSDs...some departments don't have K9 Units and chase the bad guys themselves...but it's a nice option other than shooting somebody center mass. Again the bright comedian knows what situations strangers and their dogs have been in! Take your French Mals to the Middle Eastern Theatre, go looking for the boogey man down a few dark alleys, or try your uncomfortable YMCA Judo holds on a 250lbs doped up naked man on pcp and let me know how that works out for ya'!!! If you're so gutted about your dogs not being suitable for real work stick to sport or stop making excuses for your dogs, neuter and spay them, and buy better dogs :grin:


 
French Mali:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYErjneazQw


BTW one of the Best 'boogey man" dogs I have had was Des loups Mutins


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## Curtis McHail

Good dog, as I said, only a moron would condemn a whole country worth of dogs. Sport negates type. Somewhere there's a showline GSD who'd make a great PSD...should we all rush out to buy one? I'm in no sooner hurry to buy a French Mal for the same purpose. Opinions, opinions.


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## Kyle Sprag

Curtis McHail said:


> Good dog, as I said, only a moron would condemn a whole country worth of dogs. Sport negates type. Somewhere there's a showline GSD who'd make a great PSD...should we all rush out to buy one? I'm in no sooner hurry to buy a French Mal for the same purpose. Opinions, opinions.


 
I am curious what you are basing your opinion on? You claiim to be a GSD guy who likes Little Control?


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## Curtis McHail

Kyle Sprag said:


> I am curious what you are basing your opinion on? You claiim to be a GSD guy who likes Little Control?


I'm a GSD guy but I'm well acquainted with the Malinois. Let's be real, sport negates type. French Ring and NVBK favor smaller athletic dogs. French ring has an active stick happy decoy, a dog with tons of aggression is difficult to out off of such a decoy, natural selection of the sport favors a non-aggressive dog with tons of prey. KNPV/NVBK favor a dog who can get mad, easily. Decoys in NVBK aren't very active, and passive it favors a dog who operates more out of malice than prey. Of course there are exceptions BUT if I had to plunk down cash for a dog I expect to do work, I'm picking a dog from KNPV/NVBK lines, period.

I don't like little control. I like dogs who get mad. I like dogs who view a fight as a fight, not a rough play session. Dogs like this usually have less..."control" but control can be gained if you put in the work. BUT, these days most cops choke their dogs off of bites anyway. For the record all of my dogs out, and I've never choked a dog off a bite in my life, OUT means OUT. I don't need a gimmick, a choke hold, or an excuse for a dog that won't out. I need a prong collar!


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## Kyle Sprag

Curtis McHail said:


> I'm a GSD guy but I'm well acquainted with the Malinois. Let's be real, sport negates type. French Ring and NVBK favor smaller athletic dogs. French ring has an active stick happy decoy, a dog with tons of aggression is difficult to out off of such a decoy, natural selection of the sport favors a non-aggressive dog with tons of prey. KNPV/NVBK favor a dog who can get mad, easily. Decoys in NVBK aren't very active, and passive it favors a dog who operates more out of malice than prey. Of course there are exceptions BUT if I had to plunk down cash for a dog I expect to do work, I'm picking a dog from KNPV/NVBK lines, period.
> 
> I don't like little control. I like dogs who get mad. I like dogs who view a fight as a fight, not a rough play session. Dogs like this usually have less..."control" but control can be gained if you put in the work. BUT, these days most cops choke their dogs off of bites anyway. For the record all of my dogs out, and I've never choked a dog off a bite in my life, OUT means OUT. I don't need a gimmick, a choke hold, or an excuse for a dog that won't out. I need a prong collar!


You sill didn't answer my question. What experience do you have with the dogs and sports you mention to Base your opinion?


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## Curtis McHail

Experience? Just a few years working detection dogs for BW  Chico Stanford might also be a good friend of mine and I may or may not train with Armin and may or not have trained several dogs that have gone on to win the Nats (something I, myself, am not interested in). But something I definitely know? My hands have ran across more than a few working dogs...enough to make me not want to touch another French dog. If your opinion differs? Congratulations! Enough men have died for the right of us ALL to have our opinions! I don't like French Mals, this poster asked for OPINIONS I gave mine. But to everyone defending the "honor" of their French Mals?

:-({|=

Continue!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I am thinking may not. Maybe you were the guy in the blind once, but "trained" and caught the dog, are two different things. Nice try though.


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## Drew Peirce

"For the record all of my dogs out, and I've never choked a dog off a bite in my life, OUT means OUT. I don't need a gimmick, a choke hold, or an excuse for a dog that won't out. I need a prong collar!"


That right there alone, tells you everything you need to know.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

What is the attraction of a shitty out to a lot of people ?? I have always wondered this. It is kinda like when the cops say that too much OB is bad for bitework or some shit like that.


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## Hans Akerbakk

I wonder where the French buy thier police and military dogs from ?


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## Curtis McHail

Correcting a dog who knows what out means for not outing is wrong? MY GOD! I should change my whole system and choke dogs off a bite like everybody else!

No thanks. My dogs out because as puppies they were trained what out means with positive reinforcement. Later on when they refuse to out I don't choke them off a bite or wrestle with them, they out or I pop the prong however hard I have to to make them remember that I don't care what they want to do, I said out, and out means "Let go now". I agree with Jeff, there's no such thing as too much OB if you have a dog who's serious to begin with (that's about all I agree with Jeff on!). Where do the French get their dogs from? From the French Ring program...there's a youtube vid of a French cop being bitten by his own dog in training. It was quick, nobody noticed it until I pointed it out. Good cop, I'd have showed the dog Jesus in person, he was pretty cool about it though...tough as nails, he even said "It's the first time he's bitten me..." other cop says "He likes to bite huh?" and he says "Yeah! Let's get him some more". 

Sadly the cop is tougher than his dog who out of neurotic prey drive bit him!

Jeff? You're a sport guy, stick with what you know! You asked why would anybody need a dog with real aggression!!! Until you figure that out? Keep hitting your French Mals 100 times with a clatter stick to prove how brave he is and watch the Dutch and Belgians consistently produce BETTER dogs for police work!!! Opinions opinions!!!

:-({|=

Go ahead, whine some more! This time bring a decent rebuttal without childish language and antics and corny jokes. Adults might respect some of you guys more. -goes off to watch Dragnet again-


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## Curtis McHail

OH and on the subject of LABS as guard dogs Jeff had THIS interesting insight:

"Ever read about dogs saving their owners by biting the bad guy ?? There are a lot of labs and lab mixes."

=D>

LMAO! Yeah Jeff, want to know why I'm not TOTALLY surprised? French Mals = Lab with erect ears and more prey drive! Not an aggressive bone in their little bodies! Now you can go about finding great homes for shelter mutts AND making a living selling dual purpose Lab mixes from the pound! Adoption fee = 55 bucks, you'll make a KILLING! Let me know how that works out!!!

](*,)

As the Chinese say: He who talks a lot of **** is usually full of it! Well, at least they should say it!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Who said I had a french Mal ?? So what if I do or don't ??

I believe I said that I don't take my dog down alleys looking to find the boogy man.

I find you amusing as well. Why don't you show me your "real" dog. I think that would be a good place for you to start.

Then you can show me a nice video of you taking a bite on one bare leg from a french mal, and then you can show me you taking a bite from your real dog, and we can all watch and see if you dance differently.

Unlike you, I don't need a dog to protect me, I live in a nice neighborhood, and have nice neighbors that get together and barbeque.

With that, I train the dog I have. It is not my life, I don't have my sense of self all tied into the dog, it is just me. I am secure in who I am, and could care less about you, or what you think. I find you amusing, so I respond so that you can perform tricks for me and make me laugh.

I have watched all the "real dog" people train, and all they do is shape the behavior differently. A good dog is a good dog. Please show us some video of your training. I am sure someone will watch it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
Go ahead, whine some more! This time bring a decent rebuttal without childish language and antics and corny jokes. Adults might respect some of you guys more

How about you point out where I was whining ?? I would love to see what you think is whining. You crack me up. Dance for me some more. 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA


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## James Degale

Curtis McHail said:


> Correcting a dog who knows what out means for not outing is wrong? MY GOD! I should change my whole system and choke dogs off a bite like everybody else!
> 
> No thanks. My dogs out because as puppies they were trained what out means with positive reinforcement. Later on when they refuse to out I don't choke them off a bite or wrestle with them, they out or I pop the prong however hard I have to to make them remember that I don't care what they want to do, I said out, and out means "Let go now". I agree with Jeff, there's no such thing as too much OB if you have a dog who's serious to begin with (that's about all I agree with Jeff on!). Where do the French get their dogs from? From the French Ring program...there's a youtube vid of a French cop being bitten by his own dog in training. It was quick, nobody noticed it until I pointed it out. Good cop, I'd have showed the dog Jesus in person, he was pretty cool about it though...tough as nails, he even said "It's the first time he's bitten me..." other cop says "He likes to bite huh?" and he says "Yeah! Let's get him some more".
> 
> Sadly the cop is tougher than his dog who out of neurotic prey drive bit him!
> 
> Jeff? You're a sport guy, stick with what you know! You asked why would anybody need a dog with real aggression!!! Until you figure that out? Keep hitting your French Mals 100 times with a clatter stick to prove how brave he is and watch the Dutch and Belgians consistently produce BETTER dogs for police work!!! Opinions opinions!!!
> 
> :-({|=
> 
> Go ahead, whine some more! This time bring a decent rebuttal without childish language and antics and corny jokes. Adults might respect some of you guys more. -goes off to watch Dragnet again-


Problem Curtis is common sense is not so common. No point arguing with them my friend. Been there done that. KNPV is a police programme period. There dogs generally are better suited for the street period. Ring sport ain't reality, no matter how bad ass some people here like to think they are. :^o Stick to what you know and don't get in the way of the big boys. 

IMO only men with small ****s need to brag about choking out their dogs.


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## Curtis McHail

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Who said I had a french Mal ?? So what if I do or don't ??
> 
> I believe I said that I don't take my dog down alleys looking to find the boogy man.
> 
> I find you amusing as well. Why don't you show me your "real" dog. I think that would be a good place for you to start.
> 
> Then you can show me a nice video of you taking a bite on one bare leg from a french mal, and then you can show me you taking a bite from your real dog, and we can all watch and see if you dance differently.
> 
> Unlike you, I don't need a dog to protect me, I live in a nice neighborhood, and have nice neighbors that get together and barbeque.
> 
> With that, I train the dog I have. It is not my life, I don't have my sense of self all tied into the dog, it is just me. I am secure in who I am, and could care less about you, or what you think. I find you amusing, so I respond so that you can perform tricks for me and make me laugh.
> 
> I have watched all the "real dog" people train, and all they do is shape the behavior differently. A good dog is a good dog. Please show us some video of your training. I am sure someone will watch it.



LOL!!!!!!!! IF I had a bare leg to offer a French Mal he'd run circles looking for the leg sleeve! Now you know my neighborhood and neighbors too huh? I have no neighbors! There's a chicken farm about a mile down the road...cheap dog food! A GOOD dog is a GOOD dog my point is the French don't consistently produce GOOD dogs. I'm done feeding the apes, train what you have, good luck!

Btw? My dogs don't protect me, the 2nd Amendment does! GOD BLESS AMERICA! Jump boy jump! -click- Good boy!!!!!!!

Continue: :-({|=


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So you repeat what I say, huh ?? That is a good trick. I wonder what other tricks I can make you do. HA HA

Quote: LOL!!!!!!!! IF I had a bare leg to offer a French Mal he'd run circles looking for the leg sleeve!

So you don't have legs ??

Quote: I have no neighbors!

I guess you are out of alleys as well. Unless they have some at the chicken farm. I am sure there are lots of dangers for you to have your real dogs protect you from. You know, like chickens and stuff.

You would be fun. Too bad you are dumb.


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## Curtis McHail

Yes because I have country alleys and need my dogs to protect me.....or was I referencing to PSDs.....I'm done, me vs you in a battle of wits is like an Israeli tank vs an Arab with a rock....we all know how that plays out. Have a good one!


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## mike suttle

As entertaining as this is, I believe this thread to be stupid. I have seen many great French line Malinois and this is coming from me (a guy who only breeds Dutch line mixed KNPV dogs) I have imported several French dogs who would do the work. I use Dutch dogs because I prefer the KNPV style of training, I prefer the size and power of the KNPV dogs, and I have very good contacts in that country to find great dogs. Trust me, there are great dogs in France as well, but in general I dont like the country of France, or the people there, so I dont spend much time there testing dogs.
I have seen huge sized Malinois come from France with very real aggression, and I have seen 45 lb Malinois come from the KNPV lines with only prey drive and no real aggression, believe me this can go either way. A good dog is where you find it. I sent one last month to Border Patrol that came from the local shelter...... I would have bought that dog for $6000 in a second, but he cost me $60!! 
To me a good dog is one that will work, there is a place for any good dog, it is just a matter of matching up the dog with the right place.


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## Curtis McHail

mike suttle said:


> As entertaining as this is, I believe this thread to be stupid. I have seen many great French line Malinois and this is coming from me (a guy who only breeds Dutch line mixed KNPV dogs) I have imported several French dogs who would do the work. I use Dutch dogs because I prefer the KNPV style of training, I prefer the size and power of the KNPV dogs, and I have very good contacts in that country to find great dogs. Trust me, there are great dogs in France as well, but in general I dont like the country of France, or the people there, so I dont spend much time there testing dogs.
> I have seen huge sized Malinois come from France with very real aggression, and I have seen 45 lb Malinois come from the KNPV lines with only prey drive and no real aggression, believe me this can go either way. A good dog is where you find it. I sent one last month to Border Patrol that came from the local shelter...... I would have bought that dog for $6000 in a second, but he cost me $60!!
> To me a good dog is one that will work, there is a place for any good dog, it is just a matter of matching up the dog with the right place.


Agreed...I said a few posts back...to condemn a country full of dogs is moronic. The French have some great dogs, consistency is key here. I don't care about "This one time", I care about every time! I don't wanna hear about 1 super PSD mal when I can hear about a whole LITTER of Dutch Mals who'll be capable of the work, savvy? Even Show Line GSDs pop up with 1 dog with the temperament for police work once in a blue moon! Again, consistency!


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## Guest

> With that, I train the dog I have. It is not my life, I don't have my sense of self all tied into the dog, it is just me. I am secure in who I am, and could care less about you, or what you think. I find you amusing, so I respond so that you can perform tricks for me and make me laugh.


Jeff,

I would ask for some compassion from you on this topic.

I cant' speak for everyone, but a lot of us didn't have many friends growing up, and we got picked on. You know how puppies have that "critical stage" wherein the good and the bad can be solidly imprinted? Well, some of us have been put on the defensive early on, and that nervousness remains around the general public. Please understand.

For another thing, when some of us have TRIED to get our older brother to stick-up for us, he'd always just laugh and give us an atomic wedgie. Another human let-down in our lives.

It's important that we rely a great deal on some animal to helps us socially navigate the world. I don't like anti-anxiety drugs, so having a stern looking animal to make people take a wide berth around me is just very reassuring....especially when I need to go down all those damn alleys, and the late-night, on-foot ATM excursions. Hopefully when the time is right, the animal can make the hard decisions himself as to when we need to be rescued. Some us just don't like direct human conflict, Jeff. It makes us nervous. Please try to extend some understanding and compassion! :evil::evil::evil:


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## Jason Hammel

Y'all crack me up!


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## Mike Scheiber

Steven Lepic said:


> Jeff,
> 
> I would ask for some compassion from you on this topic.
> 
> I cant' speak for everyone, but a lot of us didn't have many friends growing up, and we got picked on. You know how puppies have that "critical stage" wherein the good and the bad can be solidly imprinted? Well, some of us have been put on the defensive early on, and that nervousness remains around the general public. Please understand.
> 
> For another thing, when some of us have TRIED to get our older brother to stick-up for us, he'd always just laugh and give us an atomic wedgie. Another human let-down in our lives.
> 
> It's important that we rely a great deal on some animal to helps us socially navigate the world. I don't like anti-anxiety drugs, so having a stern looking animal to make people take a wide berth around me is just very reassuring....especially when I need to go down all those damn alleys, and the late-night, on-foot ATM excursions. Hopefully when the time is right, the animal can make the hard decisions himself as to when we need to be rescued. Some us just don't like direct human conflict, Jeff. It makes us nervous. Please try to extend some understanding and compassion! :evil::evil::evil:


When was the last time you took a boot to the head? Never mind don't answer don't matter but I think its time for another.


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## Bob Scott

43 posts onn this subject and the last 42 haven't been very productive.


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