# Typical puppy prices



## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Hello All,

I keep finding ads in my local newspapers for AKC reg. GSD puppies. Some
even say, \"working lines\". None say \"imports\", however. So, these are the
local breeders, or \"backyard breeders\" of American \"show lines\", right? 
I'm assuming so...

Pricing in these ads typically runs from $250.00/$400.00 for pups, to $800.00/$1,000.00 
for \"working lines\".

So, my question is, what is the typical price for a *true* \"working line\" GSD,
one that *you all* would consider for yourselves:

*Pricing for an*:

American breeder pup
Import breeder pup
[list:818a093ba4]
German import
Dutch import
[*]Other
[/list:u:818a093ba4]
Can I get separate pricing for GSDs, Dutch, and Mals?
Researching this leads to 1k of ads for \"cheap dogs\"!!!


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## Mike Russell (Apr 9, 2006)

It really depends on your region. With you being in Cali (according to your miniprofile on the left), you will see much higher prices from breeders in your area. I do a lot of research and looking around at litters and talking to other breeders, so I'll give you what I've found in GSDs...

Litters bred in the US from Import or domestic dogs:
Average working line litter w/ guarantees = $800-1800
Average showline litter w/ guarantees = $1500-5000

Litters bred in Europe and pups shipped from Europe (which usually does NOT include a guarantee on hips/elbows/health):
Average working line litter = 500-2500 Euros 

If you see something under $500, then it's most likely a BYB or a dog that must be sterilized.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Is it of any help if I give some prices here (without the shipping, and (probably the extra charges for export)):

x- Mals/DS (KNPV) E 175-250, that´s aprox $ 200-300
reg Mals (working lines) E 450-600, that´s aprox $ 475-625
reg. GSD (working lines E 550-800, that´s aprox $ 600-850
reg DS E 400-500, that´s aprox $425-525


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:Is it of any help if I give some prices here (without the shipping, and (probably the extra charges for export)): 

x- Mals/DS (KNPV) E 175-250, that´s aprox $ 200-300 
reg Mals (working lines) E 450-600, that´s aprox $ 475-625 
reg. GSD (working lines E 550-800, that´s aprox $ 600-850 
reg DS E 400-500, that´s aprox $425-525

Don't forget the \"Your an American\" tax, so that takes the price of a Mal 1000 E - 1500 E

The GSD is well over that, from some of the guys I have talked to. Maybe not necessarily your area, but they were really griping at how the Mal is not cheap anymore.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

All that sounds about right from my experience....

My showline GSD was $1200, I've found working lines for $750-2200. My dutchie was about $850 + shipping, but I could have gotten a Dutchie/Mal cross for as little as $275, I was absolutely amazed when I got some of the pricing from these guys! Unfortunately the breeder I would have went with had I chosen a KNPV line dutchie (mal/dutchie cross) emailed me not long ago saying he had 5 pups, 2 were stuck in the womb/vagina and died, 1 died at birth, the mother killed 1 and only 1 female survived.

Selena, do you know Harry Kreeft? It was his litter I had also considered.

American line GSD's, I've seen em for as little as $100 to $500.

Pitbull puppies anywhere from $50+ and you can find em just about anywhere in the Orlando Ghetto, any color you want! And they're not stolen!  :lol: Badly bred yes, but not stolen!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Don't forget the \"Your an American\" tax, so that takes the price of a Mal 1000 E - 1500 E



that´s why I added this part (euphemism)



Selena van Leeuwen said:


> and (probably) the extra charges for export)





Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Selena, do you know Harry Kreeft? It was his litter I had also considered.


Yes, by name for sure and have seen a few times but not spoken with him. Good reputation as a breeder and as person.

I charge E 250, puppies are vaccinated, have identification chip, of course dewormed etc., and leave at 7 wks.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2006)

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I wouldn't buy anything out of the newspaper. It seems that most really reputable breeders' litters are sold before they're born, so there's no need to advertise. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions to this, but I would have to be really confident in my ability to assess puppies and their parents before I'd even consider buying from someone who places an ad in the paper. But maybe that's because there's NO ONE in my area selling anything decent, so I'm bitter 8) . Caleb was $1500; (I don't care to add up how much he REALLY cost when you add airfare, crate, health cert, etc.) I could've found one a little cheaper, but I really liked that particular combo, and I knew it was probably my last chance to get a son from his sire. So, it depends alot on the parents and your motivation for buying a pup and your intentions. Sorry to ramble; puppy prices are a sore spot for me-my family still hasn't shut the hell up about what I paid for Caleb :x . They know &*%$!


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I know you all will probably point and laugh at me, but I paid $2,500 for Jak. However, IF anything should happen that he can't do the work, or if he develops hip or elbow displasia (or other health issue), or if he were to become too much for me to handle, or whatever reason at all, I can give him back and get another dog no questions asked. Yes, I could have gotten an 8 week old puppy for between $800 and $1,000 from another breeder that breeds and trains for police departments, but there would have been no guarantees at all, except for maybe a replacement puppy should the one I got develop displasia. I really didn't want to buy from out of state or from so far away that the puppy would have to be shipped to me and I didn't get to go and see him or his parents, and that would have been my only other option if I had not bought from one of the two breeders I had to choose from semi-locally. And honestly, by the time I paid to have him shipped, bought an airline approved crate (since the airlines have horrendous rules about that now), and all of the crap that has to be done when you have a puppy shipped to you, it probably would have ended up being pretty close to what I paid, right?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

those prices

The garantuees is nothing more than standing for your product, IMO and comes with breeding. In my opinion you´re responsible for your puppies till they die....


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I agree Selena... My puppy has a bite guarantee and a HD guarantee. I don't know what the terms are, I don't care, I never asked. She's my puppy, if she doesn't bite she won't get sent back... but... well, I don't see that being a problem LOL!!! If she develops HD, I'll deal with it, but she still won't get sent back or replaced. Once my dog is my dog he/she is my dog no matter what, period, end of story. If she cost me $5000 on hip replacement surgery or whatever the going rate is for that surgery, then that's just the way life goes.

If you really want a specific pup then I don't see a problem in paying for that pup whatever you're comfortable paying, I could have gotten a dutch shepherd without papers for 1/3 of the price, I don't care about papers at all, my GSD has papers but I haven't even registered him yet, I keep meaning to do it but I always forget, he's almost 2 years old now :lol: But I liked the choice I made with both my dutchie and my GSD so I was OK with paying more. I could have gotten a GSD for 1/2 the price too, but I liked the breeder I went to so I paid the price.

I would never pick a breeder based on their guarantees, but rather the dog... but if you like the dogs then the guarantees are a bonus I guess... if a dog was \"too much\" for me, I would learn to handle the dog and figure out suitable living arrangements, not give the dog up, but I know that if I were to want to get rid of my dutchie (not gonna happen!!) I could ship the dog back to Johan and he would accept her back without a problem.

I have no problem with someone paying even $3000 for a dog if that's what they want to pay, as long as the reasons for buying the dog are the right reasons


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## Carmen van de Kamp (Apr 2, 2006)

the prices I know are only from malinois,
papered mals 500 and up (our last 2 ones were 600 each and one was acually 650 (2,5 years ago) but as we made reservations for the old price we could get her for that) I already know breeders that ask 750 euro, what in my opninion is way to high........(for the Netherlands and Belgium, because I know that for instance in Finland 800 euro is a \"normal\" price for a mal)
cross bred mals from 200 and up (mostly until 300/350, but I recently heard from someone asking 400  and no, no \"you are an American tax\" just Dutch people..........

and yep, prices are without shipping if needed....


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2006)

If you're not set on a certain set of parents, then buying locally is much easier of course. $2500 seems high, but I have to say that Caleb was closer to $2000 when those other things were added in. You shouldn't have to pay $2500 for a guarantee, though. I don't recall a single breeder I considered who didn't offer the same (almost identical to each other) guarantee regarding hips,elbows, other genetic health issues, and requires the dog to be returned to them if any problems (dog or personal) should arise. I would never have even paid $1500-$2000 for a dog w/out a full replacement guarantee.


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> My showline GSD was $1200...


Cujo is from Showlines     (JK :wink: )

I thank you all for the info. I'm actually embarrassed b/c I thought that AKC
registered dogs were, as my kids would say, \"*Da Bomb*\"! I thought that AKC
registration was all there was in the dog world, actually. 

I paid $50.00 for a $150.00 pup. The owner of both parents sold the pups so 
cheap b/c he never bothered to register the parents. They're purebred thought. 

Anyway...

Once I picked up Sable, I did research, and found the training articles that Ed
Frawley has written on working dogs, as well as the Leerburg dog forum. And
now this forum :lol: !!!

I'm very exited to have Sable evaluated for PP and/or SchH. And if, by the
*off-chance* that a $50.00 non-working line pedigreed GSD will do fairly well
w/PP and/or SchH, then that'd be *so cool*! If not, she'll stay with me for as
long as God keeps her by my side as one of my best friends 

BTW, anyone want to sell me a Dutchie or Mal for $50.00 (only half joking)?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes Cujo is from Showlines (german not american). His parents both worked, his mothers mother was an exceptionally hard dog with excellent working abilities. He's not gonna win any championships, but he can handle alot of stress and defensive work -- but the difference between him and a working line dog, besides intensity and working abilities, is the effort it takes to train... Cujo requires ALOT of work to train him, whereas a working line dog will bite, n jump over things, climb onto stuff with very little training. Everything Cujo does (not to brag or anything :lol is because I've spent the time to teach it to him and build him up... it teaches you a whole lot more than buying a dog that \"just does everything\"... when Lÿka is older I'm sure I'll have alot less issues in training her than I did with Cujo, she'll probably be alot more obedient, alot quicker, and alot more willing to do things that Cujo hesitates to do. I wouldn't suggest to someone to get a showline dog if they want to work, but I have what I have and he's taught me more than I would have learnt if I went with a working line dog. Now I have a working line dog who's gonna be easier to raise because I already learnt so much, and she's going to teach me other things, probably about handling dominance and aggression :lol: :lol:


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Martin Espericueta said:


> BTW, anyone want to sell me a Dutchie or Mal for $50.00 (only half joking)?



NO way! I don´t earn money on my litters, usually they cost me..but I won´t sell for $50...or you get a puppy for free (agreement) or pay 250 euros (but this hypotically, ´cause I will probably not sell to the US).


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> NO way! I don´t earn money on my litters, usually they cost me..but I won´t sell for $50...or you get a puppy for free (agreement) or pay 250 euros (but this hypotically, ´cause I will probably not sell to the US).


Yeah E250 sounded cheap, I was wondering if they COST you money :lol:

I don't even know how they sell ANY puppy for $150, let alone $50... I just spent $280 on food and bones for my 2 dogs that'll probably last 6-8 weeks, n that's only 2 dogs, a puppy and an adult! Let alone a litter of 8+ pups.

Speaking of puppy, I took her swimming again this morning, she's starting to get the hang of it  I love the swimming, even if she swims just 3ft 2 or 3 times, she sleeps for hours after!! :lol:


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Martin Espericueta said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, anyone want to sell me a Dutchie or Mal for $50.00 (only half joking)?
> ...



aww. c'mon selena. don't you want to build a nice set of van leeuwen bloodlines over here? tommy can't be the only blood over here....


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Selena van Leeuwen said:
> 
> 
> > NO way! I don´t earn money on my litters, usually they cost me..but I won´t sell for $50...or you get a puppy for free (agreement) or pay 250 euros (but this hypotically, ´cause I will probably not sell to the US).
> ...


cost last litter ( 4 puppies, 1 died at birth):
- breed money 200 euro
- gas cost 50 euro
- puppyfood 50 euro
- vet bill 250 euro (deworming, indentification chip, shots)
- time priceless

income:
1 puppy 250 euro (charged 200 last year, got some extra)

1 puppy on (breeding)agreement to UK (leaves may 1th this year), so feeding 9 mo., rabies shots, blood test, x ray etc. is for us.
1 puppy on agreement
1 puppy for me/ us, for sport and breeding.

If Benta is pregnant again, 1 puppy will stay with us and I don´t expect more than 6 puppies....so do the math :roll: 

It´s an expensive hobby, breeding :wink:


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2006)

$50 was a joke, Selena. He said he was \"only half joking,\" but I really don't think he expected anyone to say \"yes.\" :wink: 

I have heard of perfectly fine puppies being given away for one reason or another. People seem to try to give Greg dogs all the time, for one reason or another...and they're usually really good dogs.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> $50 was a joke, Selena. He said he was \"only half joking,\" but I really don't think he expected anyone to say \"yes.\" :wink:
> 
> I have heard of perfectly fine puppies being given away for one reason or another. People seem to try to give Greg dogs all the time, for one reason or another...and they're usually really good dogs.


I know Jenni :wink: but my reply still stands... or no charge or full prize :wink: Maybe because Greg can make them even better :wink:


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> $50 was a joke, Selena. He said he was \"only half joking,\" but I really don't think he expected anyone to say \"yes.\" :wink:


Yes, I'm just joking - and a *very bad joke* I guess


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Martin Espericueta said:


> Jenni Williams said:
> 
> 
> > $50 was a joke, Selena. He said he was \"only half joking,\" but I really don't think he expected anyone to say \"yes.\" :wink:
> ...


I realised that you were joking, but I responded seriously because I don´t think al lot of people realise what it takes to breed :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:I know you all will probably point and laugh at me,

For paying 2500, after the 5000 questions you asked? YES! I am pointing and laughing. :twisted: :twisted: NO WAY, is there a puppy out there worth that much cash. I just see it as someone who got over on you, and that does piss me off. While I don't think people should take a loss, that is insane money. However, you do like him, and the monetary thing is over.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Martin Espericueta said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, anyone want to sell me a Dutchie or Mal for $50.00 (only half joking)?
> ...


Well, I thought this was a thread way outside my ken, but I can contribute this: $50 wouldn't cover the costs for adopting a rescue. At least not here. Many breed rescues will cost $250 and up, and these are non-profits.

Just for perpective!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> aww. c'mon selena. don't you want to build a nice set of van leeuwen bloodlines over here? tommy can't be the only blood over here....


I´ve so few litters, I want an eye on my puppies :wink: But if I consider to sell to the US, you´ll get a PM :wink: Maybe a visit to Holland or a few visits will benefit you :idea:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Tim Martens said:
> 
> 
> > aww. c'mon selena. don't you want to build a nice set of van leeuwen bloodlines over here? tommy can't be the only blood over here....
> ...


How about moving to Florida instead? Remember... nice weather n all... :lol: :lol:


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Selena van Leeuwen said:
> 
> 
> > Tim Martens said:
> ...


I don´t have that money  maybe if I take a florida state bar exam :idea: laywers make good money in the US, don´t they? :mrgreen:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> I don´t have that money  maybe if I take a florida state bar exam :idea: laywers make good money in the US, don´t they? :mrgreen:


Yes, yes they do


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Martin Espericueta said:


> BTW, anyone want to sell me a Dutchie or Mal for $50.00 (only half joking)?


I realized something here. Yes, I was joking, and the price for my GSD was
so cheap, b/c she was from a BYB (I didn't know any better back then!).

But to the breeders here on this forum, I do understand the cost associated
with your work. And I totally respect you all. If I could afford it, I'd buy those
$1,000.00 dogs ANY DAY!



Connie Sutherland said:


> Well, I thought this was a thread way outside my ken, but I can contribute this: $50 wouldn't cover the costs for adopting a rescue. At least not here. Many breed rescues will cost $250 and up, and these are non-profits.
> 
> Just for perpective!


Yes, and here in Los Banos, CA, the fee is $75.00


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*cost to rescue*

Actually, Martin, that's similar here for a shelter rescue. 

When I said $250 and up, I meant the breed rescue people.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

If i had more puppies in a litter and/or if i would sell everything, I would be out of the cost. Breeding is not my living, it´s my hobby.

But your joke makes a good discussion, doesn´t it Martin?


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

*Re: cost to rescue*



Connie Sutherland said:


> Actually, Martin, that's similar here for a shelter rescue.
> 
> When I said $250 and up, I meant the breed rescue people.


Yeah, and here I go again mis-interpreting people :roll: 

I'll have to check with my local rescues for GSD. Maybe I can volunteer in
some fashion.


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> But your joke makes a good discussion, doesn´t it Martin?


Yeah, most of my funniest moments have been b/c of my saying stuff before
I think it through :wink:


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

> NO WAY, is there a puppy out there worth that much cash. I just see it as someone who got over on you, and that does piss me off.


Jeff, I agree with your first statement, and perhaps you're right in the second statement as well. I'm not gonna argue your opinion. _But_, I'm also training with the person I bought the dog from, so in MY mind, the upfront cost isn't as bad as if I had just paid that much for the pup. I didn't just pay $2,500 for the puppy himself. 

My logic at the time was that the person knew his dogs and what they were producing (Jak's father is his competition dog); he knew exactly what I wanted; he kept the puppy from 8 weeks until 18 or 19 weeks before he ever called to say he had one for me to assess the puppy's drives and make sure he was what I wanted (I know it's still a crap shoot even at 4.5 months, but still); I can board Jak with him anytime I want for as long as I need to for no cost; and he will replace Jak if Jak turns out to not be able to do the work (which I don't think will happen, but that's still a hell of a guarantee!). 

All of this combined is my way of justifying the price I paid. That, and the fact that everyone comments on 1. how nice he looks and 2. how well he is doing in training so far. The breeder/trainer has commented several times that he would buy Jak back from me in a heartbeat if he knew I'd sell him. He's said several times that he \"wishes he'd kept that puppy\" and \"Looks like he's gonna be a good one!\" I can only hope and pray that it's true and that I don't screw him up too badly. Then, when Jak has some puppies, I can charge $3,000 for them!! :lol: :twisted: JUST KIDDING


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Tim Martens said:
> 
> 
> > aww. c'mon selena. don't you want to build a nice set of van leeuwen bloodlines over here? tommy can't be the only blood over here....
> ...


i know exactly how you feel selena. i know it's very important to keep tabs on your pups. through some research by Gregg and with the help of Hil, i was able to contact the original owner of my dog in Holland. I send him pictures and let him know how Camo is doing. He loves hearing about Camo.

as far as going to holland, maybe if gregg goes next year, i can tag along with him. i really want to go over there for many reasons.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> as far as going to holland, maybe if gregg goes next year, i can tag along with him. i really want to go over there for many reasons.


I intend on going to holland with my dogs some time next year.


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## Gregg Tawney (Apr 4, 2006)

Hey Tim - 

I promised Roel and Sandra that if Rocco goes to Den Bosch this year that I would be in the stands cheering for them. I will pay for the rental car if you buy the gas!! :lol: 

Unfortunately, I would make out the best in that deal! On my last trip I got excited when I saw that gas prices where only $1.59. That excitement was short lived when I realized that they were talking about liters and not gallons.  

Selena - Do you or Dick have any dogs going for thier PH1 Certificate this year? Have you ever sent frozen sperm our of the country or had someone bring their female for a breeding? Like Tim said.....it sure is a shame not to share that great bloodline :wink: 

Gregg


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Gregg Tawney said:


> Hey Tim -
> 
> I promised Roel and Sandra that if Rocco goes to Den Bosch this year that I would be in the stands cheering for them. I will pay for the rental car if you buy the gas!! :lol:
> 
> ...


We don´t have a male at the moment who could deliver the sperm  Spike has became sterile after a testicle inflammation  
I hope Benta is pregnant so we will have a new stud in a few years.

I know that Tommy´s sperm was sended to Australia, so that´s an option and I know a other dog from our bloodlines that you can use. PM me for more info, if you´re intrested.

Spike was going to do his PH 1 but has an injurie at the moment and we´re not sure if he´s well enough to compete.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

My GSD pup w/ full registration out of working DDR lines (father Bo was imported) was a steal from a friend at $2000. If you're looking for a real GSD, expect between $1200-$4000, depending on pedigree.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've been "shopping" for a couple of GSD's or Mals for dual purpose dogs. Patrol/explosives. The prices have been running between 3,500 and 4,800. These are green (untrained) but guarenteed for health and temperment. It's tough finding local dogs, and has gotten tougher over the past several years.

DFrost


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Sarah Hall said:


> ...If you're looking for a real GSD, expect between $1200-$4000, depending on pedigree.


So my Sable, bought for $50.00 (yes, I know...BYB :-({|= ) is not a real GSD?

*I do* understand you're talking bloodlines/pedigree here, but I'm very
happy with *my* "from-the-wrong-side-of-the-tracks" GSD!

PS: From-the-wrong-side-of-the-tracks is a derogatory American term for 
someone who's not part of the "Upper Class". 



Sarah Hall said:


> My GSD pup w/ full registration out of working DDR lines... at $2000.


Again, I'd pay that if I could for a pedigree such as your dog. But let's not
discount a dog JUST b/c they are not "royalty" :wink:


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Gregg Tawney said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Tim -
> ...


The last time I talked to the guy in Austrailia, he told me Tommy's sperm didn't take.  I believe he imported some other sperm (Arras maybe, I know it was a Pegge dog) and he was going to give it a shot with that.

Gregg- I don't think I can make this year. We already have a Disneyland trip planned in September and getting time off at the last minute in September is pretty difficult after everyone has already signed up for vacation. I'll look into it though. When exactly in September is it?


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## Mike Russell (Apr 9, 2006)

Something to also keep in mind when discussing prices paid for dogs and prices that some breeders are selling pups for is this...

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

If a person can build up enough hype (ie. sire or grandsire SchH3 National champion!!!) or enough BS, then they can usually sell pups for more. If a person is sucker enough to believe the hype or BS, they'll buy the pup for that high price.

To me, NO puppy is worth over $1000. Why? It's a PUPPY! It has not proven anything yet, it's a genetic gamble/experiment. Yes, the odds can be stacked in the favor of the pup, but its parents do not automatically mean it will be the best (or even good) at the chosen field. People were calling me crazy for selling pups out of the 2x USA National Police Dog Champion...maybe I'm crazy, who knows, but I don't think it's right to charge a ton for a pup.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Championship is always in the first weekend of september :wink:


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

Mike-great saying! So true. 

Martin-There's plenty of fun to be had with those from the "wrong side of the tracks!"  8) 

Pedigrees do not guarantee anything. I chose Caleb's lines b/c his parents are/were both mature, healthy dogs whose traits I liked. Looking around here at what people paid, I guess he was a steal. The pedigree is at best an indication of what he/she could turn out to be. Any puppy is a total crapshoot. I am not interested in sport, and I wasn't when I bought him. I bought him instead of the GSD's in the yard down the street b/c of health reasons, mostly, and temperament. A good breeder can pick (within limits, of course) the right pup for a particular household. I got EXACTLY what I asked for, and it took her several weeks of observation to match us up. A BYB, for the most part, doesn't care enough or know enough to do this. That's one of the main advantages, IMO. Your dog could turn out just great, and be perfect for what you want, just as a $3000 dog could end up going back for severe HD, temperament, etc. It's all a gamble; there are only ways to increase your odds-no guarantees.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Mike Russell said:


> Something to also keep in mind when discussing prices paid for dogs and prices that some breeders are selling pups for is this...
> 
> "A fool and his money are soon parted."
> 
> ...



I don't even know why a pup costing $800.00 be considered "pet quality"...


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

Al, I agree, but I must admit I paid $750 for a....  pekingese  (bargained down from $1000) who sticks out his tongue occasionally, and therefore cannot be shown. (Or maybe it's because he'll amputate your hand if you show him a hairbrush)His sire is 9th in the world, and pups are $1300, and not sold to pet homes at all. Talk about a useless animal...but he's far ahead of most pekes for health (he even breathes quietly and can walk around the block!  :lol: ) and a few hundred up front can save thousands later in health related costs resulting from a BYB experiment.

So, there are reasons for the prices in some cases, but if someone is just a BYB, I would never pay that for one of their pups. I get so mad when I see crappy signs with "AKC" on there like it's something to be proud of, and they spell shepherd with two "p"s and an "a". :evil:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Both dogs I am working right now cost me all of nothing. The dog I paid for is a dud. I am very happy with my free dogs.


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## Mike Russell (Apr 9, 2006)

Jose Alberto Reanto said:


> I don't even know why a pup costing $800.00 be considered "pet quality"...


Well, in today's "the more it costs, the better it is" mentality, an $800 pup is low end and doesn't have the same ego boost and bragging rights as one that costs $2000. Frankly, those pups that we sold for $800 out of Stormfront's Brawnson and our bitch Kohl (who herself has produced a fairly decent amount of dual purpose PSDs...5 from one litter of 7 pups) got me constant emails of "you could easily sell those for $1500" and those people received responses of "when you breed a well thought out litter, you can charge what you want, our price is $800 for hip/elbow/health guarantees/warantees and full registration on proof of passing OFA/OFEL." I was scolded for asking "BYB prices" for dogs that would be sold on a spay/neuter contract! Hell, they'd probably want to tar and feather me for GIVING a male from our A litter to a friend for the cost of the neuter! :lol:


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Mike Russell said:


> ...they'd probably want to tar and feather me for GIVING a male from our A litter to a friend for the cost of the neuter! :lol:


Hey Mike, I'll be your friend! 

Any dogs you want to charge an "offensive" amount to me for? :wink:


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## Carmen van de Kamp (Apr 2, 2006)

Mike Russell said:


> Jose Alberto Reanto said:
> 
> 
> > I don't even know why a pup costing $800.00 be considered "pet quality"...
> ...


same here :wink: people were calling me crazy by keeping the prices low (600 euro for export and a little bit less for in Holland, but that is just the "difference" in cost price because the export puppies need to visit the vet one extra time, I need to keep them a week extra untill they are old enough to be transported, the costs of the tattoo and the export pedigree and I need to bring them to the airport, so that (for me) justifies a small price difference for export), they told me the pups wouldnt sell because people would think they were no good for that price

and for as long as there are no significant rises in the cost price for the pups (papers, injections etc, because uncalculated costs like problems giving birth or something you cannot put in your puppy price is my opinion.....)

and ofcourse for export there are some extra costs for the buyer for the transport, but that is just cost price (buyers get to see the bill) and in our last (A) litter it costed me for one pup 40 euro because in the last few days the rate changed, but hey, that's my problem (if it is a "normal" amount like the 40 euro, if it is an exeptional high amount I would contact the new owner :wink so then the buyer has an advantage :wink:


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## Elly Elsenaar (Mar 27, 2006)

Also with the dobermanns, there is a big different in prices here in Holland, I have heard prices between 1000 and 2500 (euro) so that is a lot of money, I buy mine in Sweden for  1000 and I picked him up myself.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

Don't anyone get upset. Here's a pic of a Malinois I imported (as a pup) 4 or 5 years ago that was said to be "WORTHLESS" as a breeder and a working dog just based on his "TRASH" pedigree. He is SchH3, IPO3, TDX, and CDX :roll: (I didn't hear about his CDX until they bred him, they know I know he's better than AKC titles).
My dog has a great pedigree, yes, but Duke (below) shows it's the dog that counts. I'm sorry to have come across as snobby!


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## Mike Russell (Apr 9, 2006)

Carmen,
I guess we're just crazy! :wink: 

Martin,
We do possibly have a litter coming up that will carry "offensive" prices. :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

I paid $900 for my "pet quality" GSD pup, plus an adder for the first pick of the litter. That was probably wasted money but I was so paranoid about what I was going into (my first GSD, and the first time I'd been around anything close to working lines) that I wanted the ability to pick anything I wanted. I have a 2 year old boy and a 1 year old boy and I was very anxious about what I might have brought into the house.

I got exactly what I wanted, I had a great and super-nice breeder who overrode my initial selection off of the temperment tests in favor of what turned out to be Annie...she had higher drives than I'd wanted (I was looking for a 2 leaning to 3 on the volhard scale if that stuff means anything to you all, but that kind of standardized test is a good benchmark I think for the inexperienced and those easily biased by appearances), but the breeder watched Annie and was convinced that the high energy would translate into hardly any aggression and almost all willingness to please, show affection, etc. And to this day, Annie loves people, dogs, my kids, other kids, and has never shown anything close to a growl on anything...and I have put her in some stressful social situations because I have to know.

The breeder had and continues to have an open-door policy with whatever stupid questions I have, and the dog is spot-on how she said it would turn out (I know I had a lot to do with that, but still, genes mean something). And was awesome with my recent HD scare, very supportive and mentioned honoring the HD guarantee right out of the gate with no BS back and forth about who would be at fault.

So in my mind, money well-spent. No question. Good genes, good breeder, after-sales support, can't beat that.


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## Mike Russell (Apr 9, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> I paid $900 for my "pet quality" GSD pup, plus an adder for the first pick of the litter.


That's a bit conflicting and has me confused. How is a pet quality pup also the pick of the litter??? While a dog's ability to be a stable pet is also important, I would never label any "strictly pet" or "better off as a pet" quality pup as pick of the litter (for work or sport). Maybe I'm a bit confused as to what you were trying to say, but to me if a pick pup is only pet quality, then I question what the breeder's goals are. :?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Perhaps he meant pick as in he gets a choice to pick the pup he wants?? I dunno, had me confused too.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Mike R, just because YOU won't pay over $1,000 for a pup doesn't mean other people won't, & I did & I'm no fool! I did not ask for a guarantee of a podium dog, I just did my homework to stack the deck in my best interest. Yes, I could have bought an adult dog, I didn't want to. It's my perogative (I THINK). So, before, you go spouting off about fools, let me remind you, some breeders ask fair prices, and yes they are way over $1,000 for WORKING line GSD's. If you don't know any, then I'd have to say the fool is you, buddy.

_admin edit: Changed "Mike" to "Mike R" -- when there's 2 Mikes, make it clear which you mean _


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## admin (Mar 27, 2006)

*No name calling.*

People can pay or charge what they want for a pup, it depends on the breeder, the lines, the region as well as what each breeder chooses to spend on their breeding and how much return the breeder expects out of it. I've seen $300 pups that are as good as $2000 pups, but I've also seen $800 pups that were useless compared to a $1800 pup. Pups are a crapshoot - but pedigree does dictate to some extent what a pup will be like as an adult, otherwise AKC lines would be kicking out awesome dogs and working lines would be kicking out dogs with overangulated hips and HD problems. How much someone wants to spend is up to them and up to the breeder they choose to go with.

Lets not turn this thread into an argument over who's stupid for paying what. The question was asking about the average price of a pup, I think it's been answered now.


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## Mike Russell (Apr 9, 2006)

Apparently Susan got herself a bit upset at my OPINION (last time I checked, I was allowed to have that as much as you were allowed to exercise your prerogative). It's OK, most people that spend a lot of money on a pup get really defensive about it when they hear my OPINION on the subject. Most people also try to put words or thoughts into my mouth when they don't agree, I'm used to that as well (ie. "...yes they are way over $1,000 for WORKING line GSD's. If you don't know any, then I'd have to say the fool is you, buddy" and "just because YOU won't pay over $1,000 for a pup doesn't mean other people won't, & I did & I'm no fool").

Do I apologize for my opinion? Hell NO! I honestly do believe that prices are too high on puppies, that some people associate high price with quality, that some people do lay on the hype and BS pretty thick to sell pups at inflated prices, and that price is set by what the market will bear. Some people just have a hard time dealing with the OPINIONS of others.

As was said, prices vary on a lot of things (breed, breeder, etc etc) and people will pay what they are comfortable paying.


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## admin (Mar 27, 2006)

Understood.

Posters original question has been suitably answered, so thread locked 

_[admin note: OK Just to clarify, I am not agreeing nor disagreeing nor siding with anyone, I don't care what people charge for puppies or who pays what for puppies, nor how much anyone thinks they should be paying for puppies! My primary and only concern on this forum is to keep arguments and disagreements under control in the politest way possible. Period.]_


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