# How long should you work a puppy/dog in an OB training session?



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

I am in a Beginner training class with a 51/2 month old puppy. The trainer says to work with them at least 2-3 times a day about 10 minutes each time. This seems okay to me or is it too much for a puppy or young dog? I am noticing a lot of posts talking about boring dogs or overtraining them if worked with on a daily basis. A dog once they KNOW the exercises I would think should do quite fine on a 2-3 times a week schedule and this of course depends on each dog individually. What about dogs that are learning a new exercise-not a puppy-a dog. Is it a good idea to work with them daily on the new exercise -even if just a short time-or should you space the workouts? If it is a new exercise they could hardly be bored or could they?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If the pup is an inside dog you can get a ton of training in while you watch TV. During the commercials get 2-3 behaviors of whatever your training. That will keep you from going to long at any one session.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

to me that seems way too little, but you are probably not considering pup "training" the same way i view it 

imo it's not at all about "training sessions", it's about how you can use you imagination to make training resemble play, and keeping pup training mostly about interactive play, owner focus and drive building vice "training"
- if that has already been finished, it's a different story


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

vicki dickey said:


> I am noticing a lot of posts talking about boring dogs or overtraining them if worked with on a daily basis.


I think this is more in reference to people who take puppy out and drill on it over and over and over for an hour at a time. Or who don't know how to play with the pup and make training sessions fun.



vicki dickey said:


> What about dogs that are learning a new exercise-not a puppy-a dog. Is it a good idea to work with them daily on the new exercise -even if just a short time-or should you space the workouts?


Multiple short reps a day are IMO the best way to teach a new behavior. I taught a dog the FR change of positions in one week this way, we did a 5 minute session, maybe less, 8-10 times a day. He crept a little when I trialed him a week later, but he nailed every position change. 



vicki dickey said:


> If it is a new exercise they could hardly be bored or could they?


Sure they can, just because it's new doesn't mean it's not boring, if the trainer allows it to be boring. Unless the behavior is self rewarding, learning a new behavior, or repeating ones already known, is not automatically interesting to the dog. It's the trainer who makes it interesting, or not.


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

It all depends on a few things. The age of the dog/pup, its temperament to some degree, your individual training skills, & the purpose of the training (AKC OB trial, general house manners etc.) IMO 2-3 times a day for a 5.5 mo pup just beginning sounds about the average till he gets the hang of it, just remember to keep it fun for him. A stressful 30 second session can seem a lot longer to a pup than a pleasant 5 minute one.

I have worked pups in 10 minute sessions up to 6 times a day at 3 mo with no ill effects, but that's just me. I just find it easier to do it that way if I can (depending on the pup/s ability) so we can finish the learning process faster & anything after that is just practice. But if you're new to training, better to take it slow so the pup doesn't get too stressed and don't be afraid to seek help from those with experience.

With adult dogs, my approach to training is similar to that of a pup. The only difference is there are times with an adult dog, after he's learned the exercise & you give the command, he may try to flip you off (ignore you). In those cases the severity of the correction changes commensurately, and occasionally the type of correction may alter as well.

I hope this helps. Keep us posted as to your progress.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

2-3 x a day for up to 10 minutes sounds right, skip a day. I think the goal is to end the session while the dog still wants more and on a happy note.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> If the pup is an inside dog you can get a ton of training in while you watch TV. During the commercials get 2-3 behaviors of whatever your training. That will keep you from going to long at any one session.


Nice idea!


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

It sounds like I am doing okay then. My dogs are house dogs. I once learned from a dog behaviorist that nothing in life is free. So before feeding them I have them sit or down or get in heel position or whatever I am working on at the time then I put their bowl down ater a release. I often have all four dogs in front of me and we have a sit off-whoever sits first gets a cookie. I do it with the down and a sit to a stand. It helps to speed them up. 
I especially like the idea of ending a session with them wanting more.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

vicki dickey said:


> I am in a Beginner training class with a 51/2 month old puppy. The trainer says to work with them at least 2-3 times a day about 10 minutes each time. This seems okay to me or is it too much for a puppy or young dog? I am noticing a lot of posts talking about boring dogs or overtraining them if worked with on a daily basis. A dog once they KNOW the exercises I would think should do quite fine on a 2-3 times a week schedule and this of course depends on each dog individually. What about dogs that are learning a new exercise-not a puppy-a dog. Is it a good idea to work with them daily on the new exercise -even if just a short time-or should you space the workouts? If it is a new exercise they could hardly be bored or could they?


Vicki, 

The only way I know to insure the dog has motivation and drive everytime is classically condition the dog to a stimulus and feelings of elation. What I mean is bring my pups out and simply play with them. I do not teach any sits, downs....nothing. I trade toys so I do have to fight with the dog for them. If the dog wants to keep the toys...they get put away in the crate. I do not want the dog to have experiences where they are not engaged. I will figure a way to keep them with me. the sessions are Very intense, very short....and often. It's always just a taste, and it's always the best, And It needs to happen frequently. This does a few things. The dog starts to associate me, toys and certain cues (a stimulus) with feelings of elation and drive. This causes a biological response in the dogs brain they cannot help. They cannot help but be excited, attentive, and driven. 

I may have one place...like my home...where I do not do this, so I can use food to teach some behaviors. but most of my training is just building dog, drive and relationship.

Teaching behaviors to much at this age, teaches them training is boring, and stagnent. 

I will see the dog overtime start to come out with an additude of "lets play". I keep doing the same training...the dogs drive will build over the next couple of months. Also, what will happen is there will come a day when I notice the dog is absolutley devoted to me. This happens somewhere at around 7-9 months old.Now I know I have them. Now I can start to take the games, and ask for a little bit of OB. but still it's 90% play and 10% work. And slowly I will increase the amount of work they do in relation to the amount of play. 

Then comes a bit of being able to read what the dog is doing. If they are falling out of drive, I need to decrease the amount of work and increase the amount of play. It is better to go to slow with this then to fast. Because if I do not have enough "dog"... I will be fighting for thier attention. I need to have them addicted to me and the games first. When I get this, I now have a dog that will forever be willing to work and focused. 

I need to have a classicly conditioned dog, before I operantly condition them.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

James your post really made think. My dogs are house dogs and I am home all day and there is constant interaction-especially with this breed-aussies. All day it is throwing a toy they bring me( just since writing this I have thrown a toy 3 times for Zak to catch) or correcting them if they try to counter surf while fixing a meal, and I put in a few little training sessions of sits and downs and stays. Everywhere I go I have a following. I can take them to work where the are open fields, people, horses and they stay with me. I do not take a dog with me until I have a recall on them that is solid. 
I think the breed of dog and the dog itself might have to be taken into account when it comes to training, what age you begin and what type of training you are doing. Also whether they are house dogs or kennel dogs. A house dog needs to learn some OB early in life just to be enjoyable in the home. At 8 months Zak already had his first obedience title. But he was one of those dogs that were born old if you know what I mean. He learned everything so easily that I did'nt hestitate to keep teaching him new exercises just to keep him from getting bored and his mind busy. Indy the puppy is a bit slower to catch on and part of that might be because I got him as an older puppy and he had lived most of his short life in a crate ignored.
As you explained it I can see how just play can buiild motivation, excitement and drive. OB can be boring and that is why I keep my sessions very short, give them primo treats, and end every session with a play session with their favorite toy. I think it can be done earlier in life IF the sessions are very short and are all done upbeat and if you end it with some wild fun.
I did make a mistake with Zak and I admit it by showing him too much too young. It did not matter how upbeat I was. I also overtrained him by working him everyday. I was wrong to think he loved it because he would get excited when he saw his leash. He was just excited to be with me and get that individual attention-he was not excited to be doing the exercises. I see that now. I have my fingers crossed that agility and time away from the OB ring will let me continue his quest for advanced OB titles. He knows the open exercises and I would hate to let that go to waste.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

vicki dickey said:


> James your post really made think. My dogs are house dogs and I am home all day and there is constant interaction-especially with this breed-aussies. All day it is throwing a toy they bring me( just since writing this I have thrown a toy 3 times for Zak to catch) or correcting them if they try to counter surf while fixing a meal, and I put in a few little training sessions of sits and downs and stays. Everywhere I go I have a following. I can take them to work where the are open fields, people, horses and they stay with me. I do not take a dog with me until I have a recall on them that is solid.
> I think the breed of dog and the dog itself might have to be taken into account when it comes to training, what age you begin and what type of training you are doing. Also whether they are house dogs or kennel dogs. A house dog needs to learn some OB early in life just to be enjoyable in the home. At 8 months Zak already had his first obedience title. But he was one of those dogs that were born old if you know what I mean. He learned everything so easily that I did'nt hestitate to keep teaching him new exercises just to keep him from getting bored and his mind busy. Indy the puppy is a bit slower to catch on and part of that might be because I got him as an older puppy and he had lived most of his short life in a crate ignored.
> As you explained it I can see how just play can buiild motivation, excitement and drive. OB can be boring and that is why I keep my sessions very short, give them primo treats, and end every session with a play session with their favorite toy. I think it can be done earlier in life IF the sessions are very short and are all done upbeat and if you end it with some wild fun.
> I did make a mistake with Zak and I admit it by showing him too much too young. It did not matter how upbeat I was. I also overtrained him by working him everyday. I was wrong to think he loved it because he would get excited when he saw his leash. He was just excited to be with me and get that individual attention-he was not excited to be doing the exercises. I see that now. I have my fingers crossed that agility and time away from the OB ring will let me continue his quest for advanced OB titles. He knows the open exercises and I would hate to let that go to waste.


 
You got thier whole life to train them. You have about one year to build dog.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Hmmmm thought provoking statement. You do make me think. I like that.


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Right now my two year old cattle dog is going for about 5 or 6 minutes a bunch of times a day without getting bored. Whenever she seeks me out in the house (which is frequently) we do something a bit different (up on barrels, holding and dropping what I give to her, sit, stand, wait, backup, treat on nose and catch etc.) I'm finessing the right amount of time to work with her since with different exercises her interest varies. Ten minutes is too long for her. I can see her eyes glaze over. She retains well though so I can't complain too much. 

She's about to start a training class with me with a few trainers who seem to have a similar approach so we'll see how that goes. I've probably already screwed her up after a week but she's having fun.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

People have done a nice job addressing your question. I asked the same question many years ago and got a fairly straight forward answer which was: it isn't about the quantity but rather the quality of these interactions that counts, which leads right back to what James said and why that's relevant.


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