# Best way to break up a dog fight?



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

There is a guy in our training group who was sent to the hospital this morning after he incorrectly tried to break up a fight between two of his bitches at his home.

I haven't heard the results of the incident yet but I heard he was pretty chewed up.

Two rottie bitches in a fight is never a good thing.

What is your method for breaking up a fight?

I keep a fire extinguisher around in case that where to happen around here. But I'm more into preventative methods like keeping my males apart.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i've actually never had to break up a dogfight, but i like ed frawley's method--it's on leerburg's site. sorry i don't really know how to link it, but i bet other ppl on here do.

yeah--2 rottie bitches would NOT be pretty. at all.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Two people, wheel-barrowing the two dogs. 

I have not just read this. I have been one of the wheel-barrowers, years ago.

I had not heard/known of this, but another woman (also not an owner of either dog) yelled at me what to do and she did the same.

Now, of course, I have seen details of how to best do this on Ed Frawley's site. I have even read of doing it alone in a worst-case scenario, but I'm really glad that I have never been faced with that.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

ann freier said:


> i've actually never had to break up a dogfight, but i like ed frawley's method--it's on leerburg's site. sorry i don't really know how to link it, but i bet other ppl on here do.
> 
> yeah--2 rottie bitches would NOT be pretty. at all.


I haven't had to break up a real fight before either. There was a small squabble between my old man pug and my male Rottie when he was 7mo but that wasn't a real fight and both dogs were controllable. I'm not sure I know how to break up a real fight. I was always told to use the fire extinguisher to choke out the dogs.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Never had a serious fight or incident. I have used the wheelbarrow technique though.

These are targeted towards bully breeds that tend to grip rather than nip. Using these methods with a dog that regrips is a good way to get hurt.

Plan 1: Straddle, Scruff, Turn. This one works. Straddle the aggressor and squeeze between your knees, scruff and turn (in a circle so you don't get bitten). 

Plan 2: I keep slip leads around. Slip one around each neck. Backtie the defendant, choke off the aggressor. If needed, use a breaker device (a hard oblong-shaped item) like a stone. Wedge it in between the dog's teeth (the narrow way) then turn it 90 degrees to pry the dog's mouth open.

Oh! Practice! Rehearse! Seriously. :lol: When I had a house full of aggressive females, my friend that helps out with the dogs and I rehearsed dog fight breaking about once a week. EDIT: that sounds bad! :lol: What I mean is we would let two dogs play and break their play using the dog fight techniques. :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

BTW, I realized that day how grateful I was (not to mention how grateful everyone else was --- like the moron owners) that one person knew what to do.

Great idea to think about it well before it ever happens.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Breaking up a dog fight might get easier if you threw a cat in the mix. Now the cat might offer a different spin to the solution...


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Backtie one, and "wheelbarrow" the other one away by the hind legs. At least that is the proper way... In the last fight between my bitches, I broke them up by hanging the one that was likely to bite me (Inka, and she really did try), and ordering the other one (Candy) back as soon as she went to rebite. I only did this because I'd have had to go through the whole house and back to get leashes, and I knew what I could get away with, with these two. They are smaller dogs, not rotties... If I didn't know the dogs, or if they were any bigger so I couldn't hold them safely, I wouldn't even try getting my hands anywhere within biting range... =; :lol:

Is is just my dogs, or do most females have worse fights than males?


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

There's a reason why bitch is a dirty word. :lol:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've always used the hind legs method but holding the tail straight (to avoid breaking it) and pulling simultaneously works too.

With my two males in the house, "out" works but once I was in another room so I picked up the metal water bowl and aimed it in the middle of them - worked too.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> Backtie one, and "wheelbarrow" the other one away by the hind legs.


Yes, that's the one-person method I read about that I have not had to face.

Whew.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

When I had Rotts, I didn't have a lot of problems with the males unless the whores....I mean bitches came into season early, which they were prone to do.

I had a stick about 3" in diameter, and 5' long. Since I had previous experience with almost getting muckled, I would just wack the crap out of both dogs.

With the males it worked well, especially if there was a previous incedent.

Females are to damn dumb. I would have to wack them every time. Eventually you just knock them out.

I have no tolerance for the BS that the incedent was usually over, and could care less what there thought process, or pack order crap. I just wack the crap out of them, and they are never ever allowed out with another dog. I usually sold a bitch with emotional problems like that. If they had dog aggression issues, I would put them down. I had too many dogs at the time to put up with that crap.

The fun part for this guy, is that once a Rott female goes at it with another female, it will happen again guaranteed.

Stupid dogs. : )


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I saw a canned air boat horn used once with great success. They are really loud. The guy hit the button right next to the dogs. The dogs freaked and ran off in different directions.


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

Bitch fights are awful, I've unfortunately have had a couple. I now never run my females together. 

I used a leash around the dogs waist and pulled them apart that way. If your by yourself try to tie one dog to something solid. Then do the same to the other. It's such instinct I think to automatically reach in for a collar, but when they are fighting, they are totally checked out and will bite you.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

unfortunately-have been involved with dog fights](*,) -you do what you can-throw a blanket over both of them, blast water in the face,pvc pipe.....you do what you can-doesn't sound good, but you react and in my opinion-no matter how much you practiced your techniques- it is not that easy.... when two dominant dogs, that in training have been introduced to loud noises, gunfire,horns,etc.,hoses, grenades etc- the wheelbarrel technique-when you are alone....does not work !!!...especially if you are alone.If you are with two people, then good, but as you grab their legs, grab hold of their collar also...when alone, If you grab hold of one, you are giving the other the advantage. Been in situations where the most dominant or the aggressor had to be choked off,the dog kept fighting until unconciousness, and have been to the vet for many a bloodbath. Best scenario-don't let it happen- easier said than done....an FYI- if you have trained your one Mals the Palisade, before you start training his dad that he hates....make sure he is locked inside a kennel building,or the run has a roof on it or you will see just how well he has learned his palisade lesson...a famous Chico Hugo get together. #-o Mo


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

the bad thing about dog fights is first, most of us don't/can't "practice" for them, and second, when one does happen, everyone just gets all wild/emotional. i think the best response is, one, take a breath!! then get after the safest way to separate the dogs w/o getting a good bite doing it.

but take a breath!


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

I have broken up a few too many AB male fights and AB female /male fights at my house alone. I have used break sticks most successfully (like what Jeff described) with the help of a partner. Wheel barrowing an AB usually results in bad damage to one. About three weeks ago I spent $ 300 getting one stitched because my husband tried to break it up and wheel barrow one off. If I am alone (god forbid) I will open the nearest door and dragg both heads using my hips and one hand on each collar. I get one body out and slam the door on their heads untill they release. I know this sounds cruel but they have very hard heads. I am pretty sure the last time this happened = resulted in my recent low back fusion:wink: 

I can not get the slip leads over their heads when they are gripping each other on the head- it wouldn't work with my AB's.

I did have an incident with my GSD and one of my AB's. Once I got the leash on the GSD I pulled him off and platz'd the AB (amazing he would do that after a fight). Dragged the GSD to the car & crated went back across the field to see if the AB was damaged and he was fine.

We do have a cattle prod that we tried many years ago. They didn't even notice it while they were fighting. I have also tried water and 2X4's- when they were younger this was enough of a deterent. Not any more. We don't kid our selves. Our boys will fight each other any chance they get. We keep them sepperated at all times (occational accidents do occur however).

My GSD breeder friend has occational bitch fights and it seems when they do that either one of her dogs or her husband is going in for stitches. I think the GSD's have bigger teeth and tend to re-bite more when fighting often doing more damage. The AB's have relatively shorter teeth and once they get locked up that is it- you can move them and they don't adjust their bites.

Best to avoid these fights all together if possible.

Julie


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Only serious fight I had with my own dogs in was when my GSD got tired of being shoved around by my JRT. I just shout "drop it" and the GSD spit out the JRT with a "HEY! He started it" look on his face. JRT still wound up in the emergency vets.
When I taught basic ob classes we always kept a beach towel dampened with a amonia/water mix in a tuperware bowl. 
The only time I had to use it was a fight between a Collie and a Dane. The Dane had a really good hold low on the back of the Collie's neck.The Collie was doing a piano bite on the Dane's front leg. Of course most everyone was screaming and hollering. 
Both dogs were on leash and two of my instructor's assistants got hold of the leashes and I dropped the towel over the two dog's heads. They came apart pretty quick.
Just don't make the mixture where it's running off the towel. Wring it out and you wont have to worry about anything running in the dog's eyes. 
I've also heard of using amonia capsules but I sure as hell wouldn't want to hold one under a fighting dog's nose.
Once the amonia starts sucking the air out of the two dogs I think even serious fighters will back off.
The towel thing isn't something your going to carry arouond with you but it would be nice to have in controled situation like a class or kennel.


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## Russ Spencer (Jun 2, 2008)

Just recently had a bitch fight (GSDs). They got at it through a chainlink fence. Dumb one stuck her snout through the grid and the other one got ahold of her lip and would not let go. I went into the one pen, backtied the "bitee" around the belly, went out and did the wheelbarrow with the other one. Backtied her and checked out the dumb one. She wasn't that beat up. Slapped some Corona on her snout and she was fine.

I keep about five slip leads on fences all around the place. Most times I'm carrying one too. The slips have a double snaphook on the handle so I can clip it to a fence real quick. I always run the lead around the belly and clip it to a fence so the dog's hind legs are off the ground before I move for the one I'm gonna wheelbarrow. 

Luckily, I've only had about 4 or 5 in that many years. Most of them were started by my Troll vh Milinda daughter. She always lost too! Never had males get into a serious fight though. Knock on head. 

Another thing I do is have a wading pool full of water so I can take one of the dogs to it. They'll usually go in and lie down to get rid of the stress. Takes about 3 or 4 minutes. Then I get the other one.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Dogs (men) can acknowledge getting beat and will usually submit and the other will usually honor the submission.
Bitches (females) are like "women" in a bar fight. Nothing to do with submission. They wanna humiliate the other "woman" and just keep on slashing and ripping. 
Fun to watch though.....:-o ..............The bar fight that is! :grin: :wink:


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I wonder if one of these would work on full blast...








Bark Stop Dog and Cat Master Handheld by VIatek


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Oh yeh. been in lots of dog fights. 80 lb dominate terriers that cut their teeth on hogs will fight. I have a hot shot in the truck and got one by the door. The first thing you do is run. Give them about 30 ft and wait until they get a good hold on each other. They always grab each other by the face because no one is going to back up. Then I jump in and grab the biggest on by the collar and give it a full twist while sticking the other with the prod. Got to be quick with the hot shot because they will grab it and break the wand off. When the one you have by the collar opens his mouth gasping for air...you get them apart and use the hot shot to keep the other backed off. My ex wife let two bitches in the same yard one day while I was gone. I told her not to even try to use the gate when I was gone. They snapped her finger and severed the tendons in one hand in the blink of an eye. She ended up with clotting from the severe bruising in her legs. She ended up in the hospital twice, the second time for 11 days. Became an ex shortly after that. I have a couple of dogs out here with no lips on one side. It gets real iffy when one get the other across the face and starts shaking them. Then you have to straddle the one with your legs to minimize the damage the other dog is taking. Now this all has to do when they are fighting each other. It is a pretty easy deal if they are fighting another breed because it is pretty much over as fast as it starts. Rotties last maybe five seconds. The nice thing is they never start a fight but they love the other dog to do it. Got to be carefull because they are fast and they are good at fighting. They will break your arm if they get you. Here is a 10 mo old that is now 97 lbs. They have huge long jaws with all the hardware and yes, when you got 20 plus of them your going to break up fights. My yards look like a power station with all the electric wire on both sides of all inside fences which leaves a 4 ft dead zone between all yards so they can't grab each other through the fences.

Odin at 10 mo.









Dino and Jingar, two theray dogs that spend 3 days a week in schools with kids


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

> I can not get the slip leads over their heads when they are gripping each other on the head- it wouldn't work with my AB's.


Not to make a loop and slip over their heads. Take the lead (unlooped) and snake it around the dog's neck, then put the handle end through the ring and pull.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Anne Vaini said:


> Not to make a loop and slip over their heads. Take the lead (unlooped) and snake it around the dog's neck, then put the handle end through the ring and pull.


](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ok- I feel stupid, duhhh! I am not sure where I could tie the dog- Our accidents usually occur inside our house. I will be thinking about that.

Thanks.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ok- I feel stupid, duhhh! I am not sure where I could tie the dog- Our accidents usually occur inside our house. I will be thinking about that.
> 
> Thanks.


You have frequent dog fights?


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

No, we don't. 

We try to keep our two males AB's apart, but once in a while we do something stupid. Last time it was my husband coming home from work (he takes his dog almost daily) he let his dog in and I had our other AB - I was cleaning with my ipod cranked and I didn't hear him asking if he could let his boy in..... 

We usually come in alone and make sure the "coast is clear" before we bring a dog in. We rotate the boys for house time so they each get to hang with the family. One dog (my husbands) is much worse than mine. He is heavily line bred on dogs that were known for their aggression on hogs and incidently it seems dogs.

I must add that they are both fine on leash around other dogs and animals. Infact my AB Lasher doesn't have any dog aggression- he just deffends him self from the problem child.

If they are in the outdoor kennels, we keep one in a kennel with a roof while the other is loose in the yard. We have had the kennel gates open because the dog is jumping and hitting it so now we lock them with brass snaps.

I would say we might have a fight once every 9-12 months. I am hoping that we never have another. If I run a tight ship we shouldn't have any problems <crossing my fingers>.


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## Milton Burton (Oct 2, 2008)

My dogs know I don't like it so if they get in a fight I yell and go get the shovel I use to clean the kennel and just start going works every time. I only have mals know but I did have a presa and she would fight after about three good wacks she learned. I do not tolerate it in the yard. If my dogs should get to fighting while we are out walking if he is winning I will tell him to out and he will, other dog runs away. If other dog is winning I will kick him or take his back legs and roll him to help my dog after my dog has him I will tell my dog to out and he will. If somebody dog gets loose on the traing field and comes over to me and my dog it is the same way but I will give them a chance to get their dog collar or slip a leash around him just in case when I out my dog he doesn't come back at my dog and we start over.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

It's been a long time since I had dogs that scrapped and most of those were ended by pulling dogs apart by back ends or tails (if they had them), which works if there are two people, and I've read the Leerburg what to do if you're alone. Just hope I have presence of mind to do it if I'm ever in that situation.

I have seen only one serious dog fight, many years ago. My old male GSD and my brother's male newfX. Perhaps I should have known better, but both dogs seemed to get along fine, so I took them and my brother's Newfoundland female out to the back forty for a walk. All fine, until we were way out in the bush and the boy just launched at each other.

So there's me, by myself, in the woods, screaming 'OUT' at my dog, "NO" at my bro's dog and scrambling to try and get them apart. I'd get one dog away and the other would come back and re-attack. The female Newf just got in the way, barking and head butting and winding them up. Finally I grabbed my dog, shouted 'OUT' at him and screamed at the other dog. He stopped, I screamed 'NO' again, and he looked up at me and blinked and it was like he went, oh, ok. End of fight. Scary, scary, for me. Huge adrenalin rush.

Haven't had to break up any fights since then, and hoping I never have to again.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The worst dog fight I broke up by myself. I was out of town on a business trip and my husband had not informed me that Zoso had attacked the female foster Rottie we had while I was away. Why that idiot dog attacked her even though she outweighed him by nearly 25 lbs and did fabulous with other dogs, I don't know. I was home alone as he was out of town, so I was by myself when this incident occurred from a mistake on my part. She finally figured out that if she grabbed him by the face, he couldn't bite her as bad (he's a grab them by the scruff and shake style fighter). 

I broke that one up by first running and grabbing two leashes. I threaded one around his waist and through the handle and pulled both them backwards until I could slam the other end of the leash into a door as an anchor. Grabbed the other leash and hooked it to her collar. I tried wheel barrowing her but she had a good hold on the side of his face and I couldn't pull without doing more damage to his face. I don't have a parting/break stick, but I was finally able to lift the leash up and choke her off it, though I wish I would have made that leash into a slip lead as well, probably would have worked faster. At any rate, I didn't get hurt, which was the most important thing, thought that ended up in numerous lacerations on his head and neck, including a nice big one on top that went down to the bone that needed 4 or 5 sutures to close. She had a few puncture wounds too, but none that needed sutures. Most important thing is getting leashes on the dogs so you don't have to grab their collars (the main way people get bit, I'm assuming) and don't pull them apart too quickly without getting their jaws open or they'll just clamp down harder and cause more damage.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

The worst I ever saw was between my wolf-hybrid and my mom's mastiff/gsdX. They tore the hell out of each other and eventually after water, broom handle and other things failed.......I grabbed a collar in each hand and pulled...As soon as they came apart I held them apart from each other until ym dad was able to grab one. 

My APBT...comes off a dog or any animal on command so the one "real" fight that she got in...she "outed" when told and it was over with ehr looking at me like..."what's wrong? I was just playing." I know that should the day ever come when I have to seperate Judge from another dog....I'll be visiting the emergency room....Hopefully that day never comes and if it does...he outs reliably or at least doesn't bite me in teh process. 

Courtney


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

i'm surprised that no one has mentioned a 'breaking stick.' a breaking stick is a smooth, wedge shaped stick, (almost flat at one end thickening up to about a hammer handle's width at the end you hold onto) made of wood or hard plastic that can be inserted into the dog's mouth behind the molars, (where there are no more teeth - at the very back of the jaw) or where the 'pre molars' are - where the top & bottom teeth do not touch, to cause a dog to release it's grip on another dog without doing any physical harm to either dog.

from PBRC:

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

"_It is best if there are two people to break up a fight, but you can do it by yourself if you have no choice. If both dogs are fighting and you are alone, you might need to tie one of the dogs to something solid. When one of the dogs is tied up, you must "break" the one that is not tied first, and pull him/her off right away._
_Walk over to the dogs, straddle one that has a hold, and then lock your legs around the dog's hips just in front of the hindquarters. Make sure your legs are locked securely around the dog. Your break stick will be in one hand, so with your free hand, grab your dog firmly by his collar and pull upward slightly._
_Insert your breaking stick behind the molars where the gap is found. Sometimes you need to work the stick in just a bit if the gap is small. The stick should be inserted from ½ to 1½ inches into the dog's mouth._
_Turn the stick as if you're twisting the throttle of a motorcycle. This action will cause the dog to readjust its grip, and it will bite onto the stick, releasing the other dog. If both dogs have a hold, you will then have to break the second dog from the first_."

now, depending on whether your dog will redirect onto you or not; (not a problem i usually see in my breed) you may have to be quite quick with your hands/arms, but that is the case in any dog fight - IMO. you want to lock your legs around the back of the dog so that it can't use it's rear drive/leverage to go forward right back into the other dog, or sideways into you as well - it's important not to skip that step. i practice with my guys while they're working a hide, to get the feel of using the breaking stick, as the theory is easier than the application, especially in the heat of the moment, when the last thing the dog wants to do is let go.

i don't like the idea of pulling on a dog while it has it's mouth on another dog, as that can create even more damage to both dogs and (as one poster said) potential injury to yourself, through either strain or redirection from the dog. i've not found beating on them or lifting them off of the ground to have much success, and have seen others try water hoses & fire extinguishers etc to no avail. dog fights are a messy thing indeed & the old saying about an 'ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure' is definitely applicable here!


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Both Jeff and myself mentioned break sticks. I actually have 2 of them one up stairs and one down stairs just in case.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I own one as well but since they were mentioned earlier in the thread. They are useful tools BUT I have found that they do not work as well on GSD's, herders and the such....they work excellent on bull breeds though. 

Courtney


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> Both Jeff and myself mentioned break sticks. I actually have 2 of them one up stairs and one down stairs just in case.


I mentioned them too, in the context of I don't have one and that I probably should. And that wheelbarrowing them doesn't always work and to take care when pulling them apart as they may do more damage to each other if they are still clamped on.


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## Mary Lehman (Oct 2, 2008)

It always seems that the fights break out when I'm home alone, i.e. no help. What works best for me is to grab the tail of one of the dogs - the one 'most' likely not to turn on you. Then drag them backwards to someplace that has a door - a kennel, house, garage, etc. - Bring one dog through with you to the inside and start slamming the door to get the biting dog to release. It has worked every time for me - not going to mention how many that is at this point.  

But if there are two of you the wheelbarrow method works well.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*Re: Best way to break up a dog fight? Cattle prod.*

30 inch version.

2 of em.


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

technique that worked - my mom had her JRT and pug start fighting when she was out watering her plants a few years ago. She picked up both the dogs, still attached, and threw them in the pool 

might not work so well with larger dogs :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Amber Scott said:


> technique that worked - my mom had her JRT and pug start fighting when she was out watering her plants a few years ago. She picked up both the dogs, still attached, and threw them in the pool
> 
> might not work so well with larger dogs :lol:


 
In the early days of terrier racing (pre muzzle) there would be a 55 gal drum of water in the catch area. When the terriers came through the finish gate they all started fighting cause the lure was gone and, hell, they're terriers. The catchers wore heavy electrician type gloves and just scooped the fighting dogs up and dropped them in the drum of water. The ones that kept fighting in the water were simply held under a bit. :-D


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I had a squabble this afternoon. I was bringing in a new bag of dog food and the pug got stupid and went after my male Rottie. I threw the bag of dog food at them and they quit. They both ran out the dog door because they knew I was in ass kicking mode. Suddenly they didn't seem to care why they were fighting and acted like buds out in the corner of the yard.

BTW- I don't advocate throwing a 40lbs bag of food because might break and cause a bigger mess like I had today. two dogs outside, afraid of me and the other four scrambling to gobble up as much food as they could before I got them all put away.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Chris,

Reading your post, my immediate concern was whether or not the dog food bag broke open. :lol:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Anne Vaini said:


> Chris,
> 
> Reading your post, my immediate concern was whether or not the dog food bag broke open. :lol:


It did break open. #-o

But it stopped my wife's pug from being the next meal. =D>


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

maybe that's why i just dump the bag in the (dedicated to dog food) garbage can (with LID) when i get it: if i DO have to throw the bag at a couple of idiots, sweep it up, in to the GC, and THEY can eat some frickin dog hairs


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mary Lehman said:


> ... fights break out when I'm home alone, i.e. no help ...


Are they a frequent occurrence?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> .... and the other four scrambling to gobble up as much food as they could before I got them all put away.


This would absolutely be the case here. Instant redirection.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

ann freier said:


> maybe that's why i just dump the bag in the (dedicated to dog food) garbage can (with LID) when i get it: if i DO have to throw the bag at a couple of idiots, sweep it up, in to the GC, and THEY can eat some frickin dog hairs



We have a garabage can in the pantry for dog food too. The fight broke out when I was bringing in a new bag from the garage. Idiots! And yes, they had some dog hair with their kibble this morning. :-({|=


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Just for clarification, I had a beating stick. I have a friend that had his Golden Retriever lay open his arm during a dog fight. 

No way I am going in the middle of two Rotts in a fight. I just wack the crap out of them, and towards the end of my tenure with this breed, I just knocked them out.

My friend had a ten inch gash all the way to the bone on his forearm, and both of his dogs were very nice dogs, obviously with no bite training. 

I may look dumb, but I ain't THAT dumb.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> We have a garabage can in the pantry for dog food too. The fight broke out when I was bringing in a new bag from the garage. Idiots! And yes, they had some dog hair with their kibble this morning. :-({|=


yeah--we feel sorry about the dog hair right? boogers deserve it (and it's just some extra protein/fiber, keeps 'em regular, so WTH).


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

the last dog fight that one of my dogs was involved in, thank god, was this summer when one of my son's buddy's brought his 3-legged Lab over, the Dobe was out when they got here, and the Dobe freaked out a little-strange dog on the place. then the boys thought they'd get in the middle of it. dumb teenagers. i saw it start, yelled at the boys to get their frickin hands/arms out of it, and the dogs broke up: lab into truck, Dobe into house.. lucky the dogs/boys weren't hurt.

but that's really the only potentially serious dogfight i've had to deal with for YEARS. i'm careful about dog #'s, dog sexes that i have here, and try my best to make the mix compatible. they get along, or we have have a "come to jesus" meeting. haven't had many of those, yet, but....


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Two thoughts
#1 If you use a break stick on the wrong dogs (most) your going to get hurt.
#2 If a person has dog fights on a regular basis or even a few times a year there are some leadership or control issues going on. JMHO!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Bob, I can see that, but when you have a kennel full of strong dogs that get along, but the bitches keep coming into heat early, which was the cause of most of my problems, you are going to have them.

I had bitches that had NO PROBLEMS with each other until they were 7 or 8. Glad those days are over. I did not have a normal amount of dogs though.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Bob, Jeff, how do you keep a bunch of "strong" dogs together. Bob mentioned a lot of fights means the is a control problem....is this on the handlers part. It has been my experience that if you have two dogs of equal status, whether it is high status or lower status, they are going to butt heads. Control is possible but only when you are looking at them. Turn your back or leave the room and all bets are off. Dogs of different status are fine as a general rule but not always. Many of the german breeds, such as Rotties and dobies have no problem setting upon a lesser dog just because they can which tell me they are not that strong a dog in the first place. A really solid dog has no reason to get on a lesser dog because there is no threat. If they do, they are not that solid IMHO. Or, am I missing something?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You are right, the dominent insecure dogs are chickenshit and will jump a smaller dog and posture at the rest. I don't keep that type.

Most of my problems stemmed from the bitches coming into heat and winding up the males and me just missing the point.

THe rest I will never figure out, as I didn't see anything leading up to the problem. Early on I had too much of a Walt Disney approach to keeping the dogs around the house.

So, basically what I am saying is that just about every problem I had was my fault.

I got a lot better about it, and didn't have problems at the end. I had different policies, and stuck to them religiously.

As far as where they stayed I had regular old kennels. I kept problem children as far apart as possible, or sold them. I didn't have what I would call dog aggressive dogs. Maybe that is why I got faked out so often early on.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Hey Jeff, I have yet to see a bitch in heat that doesn't add more dynamics to a yard than it is worth. Outside of penning dogs up, I have never found a suitable solution to that particular problem either.It has always been put off on testosterone but it just isn't so.....it is progesterone all the way and if you don't believe it just watch those bitches go from pen to pen stirring the pot.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So true, Rott bitches are such little protagonists.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Bob, Jeff, how do you keep a bunch of "strong" dogs together. Bob mentioned a lot of fights means the is a control problem....is this on the handlers part. It has been my experience that if you have two dogs of equal status, whether it is high status or lower status, they are going to butt heads. Control is possible but only when you are looking at them. Turn your back or leave the room and all bets are off. Dogs of different status are fine as a general rule but not always. Many of the german breeds, such as Rotties and dobies have no problem setting upon a lesser dog just because they can which tell me they are not that strong a dog in the first place. A really solid dog has no reason to get on a lesser dog because there is no threat. If they do, they are not that solid IMHO. Or, am I missing something?


You mean in the same yard? I learned a trick (I've never tried it) from some greyhound folks. Got some dominant boys butting heads? Add a dominant bitch to the yard and the boys will behave themselves. :lol:

Don, I had dog-vs-dog aggressive dogs (APBT's and APBT mixes) butting heads. I did "crate and rotate." But I also worked with them. I set it up as *I* am IN CHARGE and *I* set the pack order as *I* see fit. Pack order will not fluctuate, because *I* will not allow it. Resource guarding was strictly prohibited. I did group feedings. Each dog ate only when I permitted it to, only for as long as I allowed. Every item or value - sleeping place, going outside, walking, petting, training, food, water was allocated by *me* according to pack order. Come-to-Jesus training moments were rare, but strong enough that the dog didn't DARE act out when I turned my back. And I ensured they were never left together out of touch-supervision. 

No serious fights or scuffles, no injuries at any time. All the dogs were "rehabilitated" and adopted into pet homes, some with other dogs. Several of these dogs are on LB's video on dominant and aggressive dogs.

I learned the hard way, and I started out knowing nothing about it! But I had a lot of success. I've learned along the way other ways of training individual dogs that involves a lot less control. But, in a group, this is my way to go.

I don't think it is something that would work for you given that you let your dogs be dogs (which I totally respect), and this way hinges on controlling everything down to the air they breathe (if needed).


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I agree about a strong dog not needing to push it's weight around.
My two present GSDs are intact males that get along just fine. The older one rules yet it's not with an iron fist. He tolerates the younger dog more then many wouild think he should yet when he decides it's not play time all it takes is a look. 
I had multiple terriers for years. Dogs and bitches ran together except during the bitches seasons of course. The only serious problem I had is with my present JRT. He's not a stable dog. First dog I ever chose that temperment wasnt first consideration. I hunted with both his parents ands all four of his g-parents. All nice working earthdogs. Mom was nuts but I took my chances and lost. His nerves wont allow simple interaction with other dogs. People that know him think he's one tough little bassid because he stiffens around most there dogs and does a lot of growling. It's pure stress on his part and his only reaction to pressure (human or dog) is aggression. I have complete voice control over him but he's a runaway chainsaw if I get physical. Handler aggression :roll:
He's the only dog I've ever had that I won't leave out without my supervising. 
That's the temperment that disrupts social structure. 
I've also never brought in an adult dog to my packs. Each starts out as a pup and just works into the social structure. I've also insisted on my being the top dog. That, for me, has seemed to keep anyone from feeling the need to be on top.
Now, I've found that pack structure is less in terriers then in many breeds but they still respect authority. I have a number of friends that have multiple terriers (working) and most don't agree with my views on keeping them together. 
I have no idea how much of what I get away with is something I look for in selection or how much is how I raise them. I do believe that I have more natural control/leadership/ whatever then most of the people I know. 
My whole family is doggy. On any sunday there would be Bull terrier, Kerrys, GSD, Collie, Aussy, Flat Coated Retriever and a Lab up at my dad's house when we all visited. No bullshit was tollerated and nothing ever happened. 
Well....there was the incident with my GSDxDane and dad's miniature mule.........but no puppies/foals resulted from it.  :lol:


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