# Weight Opinion Frustrations [pic heavy]



## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

:x That face is about how i feel dealing with my dad and what are technically by the names on their papers my dogs. We have 5 rottweilers at the kennel and they are all ranging from chunky to overweight. The two many chunksters are Rott-berger Gold and Redwood Krest's Parker.

Both are already tall for their gender standard yet my father insists on keeping them what I think is even heavier than "show weight". So why is it so hard for me to get it through my dad's skull that the dogs are overweight? I'm getting stonewalled at every corner. The vet continues to say the dogs are in great shape and health and the head of the K9 unit here in Nassau says they're not even BIG enough.

I think I am more frustrated by the head of K9 (he functions as our only decoy) than the vet or even my father. here is a man that is out in the field with these dogs and should know the importance of a healthy fit dog. He seriously thinks the dogs should be the weight they are, he even wants dad to put an EXTRA THIRTY POUNDS on Parker. Sorry for the rant but it's just frustrating, the only one who backs me up is the guy who trains our dogs, but it's me and him against the head of K9 and a vets say so -rolls eyes-

Luckily I am currently keeping Gold and I am putting her on a strict diet and exercise regiment. So I'll keep you updated of at least that progress here. It's just, these could be such excellent dogs but because they are so fat they can barely do anything.

Parker Before (a bit chunky but not outright huge):


















Parker Just Yesterday:


















Gold Before:


















Gold Now:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

What's the problem - too fat is too fat.

Fell the ribs but not necessarily see all of them:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Is this so difficult, especially with a short-haired variety.

Mensch!!! Ich fasse es nicht!!!


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> What's the problem - too fat is too fat.
> 
> Fell the ribs but not necessarily see all of them:lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> ...


I know they are too fat again the issue is all of the "professionals" telling my father who is the caregiver of the dogs that they are healthy, and in some cases even telling him they need to put on MORE weight. I was simply voicing my frustrations that someone like a K9 handler would tell my father to put 30 MORE lbs on Parker.](*,) 

Mostly this thread will cover my work with Gold to trim her down. Feeding her what I believe is the appropriate amount of food has cut her food intake in more than half.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Amy - maybe approach the issue from the direction of overall endurance in the heat? Perhaps that would convince your dad not to keep them so heavy? 

Fat dogs overheat much faster and it takes longer for them to cool down. I would think that's an important consideration where you live.

Perhaps you've already tried that approach, but if not, it might help. Maybe we can find some supportive articles for you to print out and hand to them.


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## Meena Moitra (Jul 11, 2008)

Without health, there is not much of a dog.
The dogs are yours, take care of them as best you see fit.
So what if some man has different ideas? They aren't his dogs, but yours! He is just one man out there, that is it. There is more than him in this big world.
I always want a lean animal... and lean can include muscle, but not fat.
There permission granted from stranger in Napa to feed your way.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I used to calculate that a working/sport dog should be 10-12% lower than "show weight", and that a dog participating in high-impact activities, like high jump should be 18 - 22 % less than "show weight", only for the training/sporting season, and maintained as a working/sport dog the remainder of the year. These percentages were based off of dogs ranging from 26 to 50 pounds. I don't know if the % would be skewed for a significantly larger, stockier build of dog.

Another way to define it is keeping a working/sport dog at Purina body scale 3.5 - 4. A dog participating in high-impact activites at 2.5 - 3 on the Purina body scale during the training/sporting season, and maintaining at 3.5 - 4 during the rest of the year.

http://www.purina.com/dogs/health/bodycondition.aspx

(Is that roll of fat above Gold's hip?!) 

Time for a new vet that understands the work of working dogs? A vet told me to put 5 - 8 lb on my stunt dog during the training season. Never went back to that vet again! I was peeved. I had an exam by another vet on the same dog previously - when the dog weighed approx. 10 lb LESS - and that vet thought he was in perfect condition for the activities he was doing. I won't risk my dog's health and safety for a vet's or K9 handler's opinion.


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

That's the issue in The Bahamas there aren't a very wide selection of vets and they all think the same way. You go in a vet's office here and there will be a punchboard lined with ads of 4 weeks old puppies for sale and "designer breeds" etc. we only have one vet that offers teeth cleaning and xrays for example on the island.

And yes I will be feeding Gold less however the other 3 are kept and fed by my father hence my frustrations. Yes my name is on their papers but that's because I'm supposedly the "business manager". So my name on paper but dad pays for everything and the kennels are at his house that's why i said they are only mine by technicality. When I return to the states I'm taking Gold with me but I can only take one as there are already three OTHER dogs where i stay in the states. You can be sure the rottweilers I pay to feed aren't fat.

I have tried every avenue to explain the benefits of a lean dog from longer lifespan to performance. You would think the prospect of spending a significant amount less on dog food would sway the vote but men will be men? I can't imagine the money he spends feeding 5 rottweilers as much as he does. I don't pay for food or upkeep hence why I have little say in the matter. No matter what I say it's kind of like my dad just scoffs (literally) at it and head of k9 will flat out argue with me about it. It's not a rational discussion of points as much as i say "the dogs are two fat he bit twice and is breathing like a hoover" responded to with "no bey rotties SUPPOSED to be big" 

It's akin with trying to argue with people who breed short and squat pitbulls and claim obesity as powerful size. I will try and show him that Purina chart maybe it will get through his head because no don't listen to me but purina and the internet says it's so so maybe it's true. Because i would rate all of our dogs at what they have pictured as a 7.:???:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

show him this pic and tell him muscles are cool. I can't tell you how many people ask if my dog is a rott x pitt


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I used to gauge condition by jumping ability. My little 40lb mix dog, Candy, can clear a half-door when she's in ideal condition. Any heavier and she starts to touch, any skinnier and she loses muscle mass and again starts to touch. 

Maybe bring up agility as a reason to drop some weight? Can fat rotts jump??


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> show him this pic and tell him muscles are cool. I can't tell you how many people ask if my dog is a rott x pitt



They loved my dog Nova when i brought her down, everyone said they had never seen muscles on a rottie like that before so they've seen a conditioned dog. I was talking with my dad this morning about how Gold is always looking for shade because she can't regulate her temperature from being overweight. To which he tell me parker is only 90 lbs and Gold is only 80....

Yes and I'm a master dog trainer with wings growing from my butt.

If that's what the vet scaled are telling him mayeb THAT's the problem, because there is no way. Nova who is half the hieght of Gold is 85 and armand a 1 year oldl male is 80

If he comes over today I will sit him down and show him that purina scale. as well as try and find a vet who's scale i dunno...works

Because a size comparison of Gold to Nova:









And Nova at 85 lbs










So there is no way Gold is 80.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Anna Kasho said:


> I used to gauge condition by jumping ability. My little 40lb mix dog, Candy, can clear a half-door when she's in ideal condition. Any heavier and she starts to touch, any skinnier and she loses muscle mass and again starts to touch.
> 
> Maybe bring up agility as a reason to drop some weight? Can fat rotts jump??


I got my #'s above from jumping also. 1/2 door is 38"?


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

She can still clear a 4 foot jump but that's about it, just walked her out to the vet and she was nearly 100 lbs. So my plan if to walk her out there every Saturday to keep track of how her regiment is doing as the walk is decent to get out there, take about 30 minutes +. Before Dad knows it she will be almost the same weight but muscle instead :mrgreen: 

Now that I know I can make the walk to the vet I'm glad because Daddy like that vet and she agrees Gold is too big as well. So at least the vet I can walk to is one with sense. She's my favourite on the island, she just needs to get a few more things for her facility and I won't need to visit the others any more. She just doesn't do x-rays or teeth cleaning yet.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Amy Swaby said:


> .... Daddy like that vet and she agrees Gold is too big as well. So at least the vet I can walk to is one with sense. She's my favourite on the island, she just needs to get a few more things for her facility and I won't need to visit the others any more. She just doesn't do x-rays or teeth cleaning yet.


That's OK. You can get referrals to x-rays and dental vets.

A vet who thinks fat is good is not a vet I want to have guiding my dog's healthcare.


Believe it or not, I have actually heard a vet say (about a fat Pug): "Oh, Pugs are just fat."

My experience with vets has been mostly very good. People do not go into veterinary medicine for the money or the glory -- that's for sure -- so it's pretty easy to find one who will treat you as a partner and who has sensible ideas about weight and health.

This is unfortunately not so true about diet and vaccinations, but it's changing. It really is.

So good for you that you stuck it out for the well-being of the dogs.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

It seems that, for a lot of people, the ideal image of a Rottweiller is of a large, solid, blocky dog. So, to them, a Rotti that looks like the lean, fit, muscular one that Chris posted a picture of, looks like some kind of scrawny wannabe Rotti. 

I suspect that it is an uphill battle to convince the 'bigger is better' people that their mental picture of a great big Rotti is less than ideal and what they are really picturing is an obese dog.

It sucks to be in a position where you know your dog is getting fat, but you can't control what they eat because someone else is feeding them (too much). I had the same problem when I moved back home with my dogs and my Mom fed them. I knew my dogs were gaining weight, but when I look back at pictures, I'm horrified to see how fat they got.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Is the vet that’s telling you that the dog aint fat, fat themselves? Everything is relative. What are the dogs even going to the vet for? Yearly shots? If I was going to be a fat dog, the Bahamas is the place I would want to be.,,,, there the big kahuna . Do they have those little umbrellas in their water bowl?


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Anne Vaini said:


> I got my #'s above from jumping also. 1/2 door is 38"?


I went and measured, cause I didn't know. 40" jump from inside the house, 47" from the outside back in (there's a step down to the back porch). I haven't measured the dog, but her shoulder is around my knee height... guessing around 20" or so...


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Is the vet that’s telling you that the dog aint fat, fat themselves? Everything is relative. What are the dogs even going to the vet for? Yearly shots? If I was going to be a fat dog, the Bahamas is the place I would want to be.,,,, there the big kahuna . Do they have those little umbrellas in their water bowl?


Teeth cleaning and such as well as yes yearly shots. No none of the vets I know are fat in fat Basil the one i often disagree with is quite muscular. My dad is a basketball coach, in fact the only people who seem to think the dogs are chunky are me and dwight and we're probably the least fit of the group.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

A few extra pounds, happy and in the Bahamas doesn’t really sound so bad to me for a dog. They don’t look like they have a lot to lose. Maybe you can talk your father into feeding a little less and get them to move little more. Lie to him, tell him he is training athletes and they need to be ripped up not bulky. Just a little smaller scoop of kibble, it doesn’t take much. My father’s shepherd was fat for a while, I don’t think he believed the dog was fat until it was skinny again. The owner always must think its muscle or is just filling out or something.There in training!


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Weekly Update: Is now 97.8 as of saturday for her previous weigh in of 99.9


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