# First day of decoying



## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Today was my 1st day of decoying. I had been working with our decoy and practicing for a few days, but today was my 1st real day taking bites. It's a lot of fun, but damn so many technicalities. My mind was spinning. I was trying to relax and stay calm & loose, but it was hard. Mainly, I was just trying to not get hurt nor hurt a dog. All in all it was a good day. 3 GSDs & a Rott. I also realized I'm not as in good shape as I thought. Puny, daily 2 mile jogs didn't do shit for me today. :lol:


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Decoying uses a whole different type of energy, you will find yourself alot fitter after decoying a couple times a week for 2 or 3 hours  I used to do 50+ mile bike rides and that doesn't really help either


----------



## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Glad you had fun Alex What I hear from the decoys like Mike said.....the more you do it the fitter you become. Any aching muscles the next day?


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Good for you, Alex! The one thing all our dog sports always need is good decoys.


----------



## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Im glad you had fun Alex. You'll have muscles hurting that you didn't even know you had. It takes a combination of things like strength, muscle endurance, and cardio endurance. It does get easier the more you do it but trust me, you WILL STILL be sore alot. Good luck, have fun and stay safe.


----------



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Well said by Jay, but remember to keep the dogs safe. Good dogs can be ruined. Take the fall before you hurt a dog. People will laugh at you but in their hearts they know why you took the fall. Trust me there will be those dogs that just puts you on your A$$ because they can and they will.


----------



## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

You and I Alex are in the same boat. I will be doing my first ever suit decoy work tommorrow. Very excited will post pic of all my bruises later.


----------



## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Thanks Greg and everyone else. I _did_ wake up sore today haha. I hadn't been sore in a loooong time. I weightlift 3 days a week and run about 5 days a week. I thought It'd be no sweat. YEAH RIGHT. I did twist my ankle yesterday on an escape, but I treated it last night and by this afternoon it was fine. I will be ready for practice on Tues. 

Being safe is my main concern. As Jerry said, I'm concentrating on safely working with the dogs. A member took some pics. I will post them as soon as he emails them to me. 

Let me know how things go with you as well Greg.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

:lol: Yeah twisted ankles, twisted knees, slip & fall on grass, tripping over yourself..... its all part of the learning process  The odd thing is, after some "injuries" I'd have a hard time driving a car or walking, yet, I had no problem decoying. Don't know why, but thats probably a bad thing :lol:


----------



## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I had no problem decoying. Don't know why, but thats probably a bad thing :lol:


Maybe you are half rubber Mike? You just bounce back like a bungee-jump rope:lol: 

@Greg......good luck with the first decoy job


----------



## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I used to do 50+ mile bike rides and that doesn't really help either


That's because you ride the flat, that's easy where you are. Go find some hill country with some mountains and you'll be smoking LOL.

Robert


----------



## Joel Anderson (Apr 16, 2007)

try this workout website it will definately get you in better shape for decoying because it works very functional movements rather than just one thing at a time. good luck with the new endevour 

www.crossfit.com


----------



## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Wow I woke up this morning in pain. I worked dogs in the morning with no undersuit protection and get torched. I was bleeding in a few spots. Then at night I worked Michelles dogs and wore some good undersuit pads and it was much better. However I had like softball slide pads that have a opening on what would be the side of the knee well I had it on the side of my calf and Draco nailed me right on the skin. Its pretty. I had such a good time though.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

LOL Now Greg, was Draco supposed to be taking leg bites, or has his side trip into FR made him a stinker?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Tips to avoid pain so that people can work their dogs more than once a week.

Try running tights. do get the ones that fit, even though they look gay, as I am told they work well.

Actually learn to target a dog and put them were YOU want them. You want the dog just below the knee for a reason......there ain't shit there to hurt.

OK, cheating time. Also naughty, so do not get caught. Put the dog on the bite, and then with a small circular motion, wrap the dog so that he is stuck in the small fold you just created. Do not make it tight, as you can bloody their noses.

Do not let the stupid dogs bite you just where ever they want. This is bad decoy work, so work on getting the dog where you want. This is the big one I want to stress. Teaching a dog good entries also keeps him safe.


----------



## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> LOL Now Greg, was Draco supposed to be taking leg bites, or has his side trip into FR made him a stinker?


No he was susposed to be biting the leg, auctually I was targeting him to the legs and keeping my arms behind me to ensure he looked to the legs, it l=only took about two times and he was already looking at the legs mainly.



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Tips to avoid pain so that people can work their dogs more than once a week.
> 
> Try running tights. do get the ones that fit, even though they look gay, as I am told they work well.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips, Jeff. I auctually have an old wetsuit in the garage and was thinking of cutting off the arms and legs and making my own neoprene gauntlets. I agree that right below the knee is a good spot to have the dog bite as like you said it does not hurt. I took a couple bites on the back of the knee and wow that hurt like hell.


----------



## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Sounds like you had a fun time Greg.....good on ya  You still up for more then?:lol:


----------



## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Oh ya I am definitly ready for more, I think we are going to train again later this week.


----------



## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Greg Leavitt said:


> Oh ya I am definitly ready for more, I think we are going to train again later this week.


  Great to hear...dont forget to keep us posted here how you get on...plus the pics of course;-)


----------



## Michelle Kutelis (Sep 28, 2006)

Greg, Draco enjoyed bruising your leg! 

He says ANYTIME you want to put that thing on, he's up for it again.

And Kadi, what can I say, young guy with suit, willing to get bit, I'd much rather have him play on the suit than schutzhund.


----------



## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Michelle Kutelis said:


> And Kadi, what can I say, young guy with suit, willing to get bit,


That statement pretty much sums up my whole life. LOL


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> LOL Now Greg, was Draco supposed to be taking leg bites, or has his side trip into FR made him a stinker?


Kadi since you have had dogs in both sports, how does working on a bite suite affect a schutzhund dog? Do you find they have a problem distinguishing between the two sports causing a conflict on where and when to bite? We have a Mal and I know if we taught him to work a bite suite he would have no problem taking leg bites on the schutzhund helper!

Terry


----------



## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

Terry Fisk said:


> if we taught him to work a bite suite he would have no problem taking leg bites on the schutzhund helper!
> 
> Terry


Terry, your dog should NOT be going for the legs in Schutzhund. [-x You're gone have a very unhappy helper.
My current dog works the suit, hidden sleeve as well as the SchH sleeve and shows no problem.
Robert


----------



## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Terry Fisk said:


> Kadi since you have had dogs in both sports, how does working on a bite suite affect a schutzhund dog? Do you find they have a problem distinguishing between the two sports causing a conflict on where and when to bite? We have a Mal and I know if we taught him to work a bite suite he would have no problem taking leg bites on the schutzhund helper!
> 
> Terry


Terry While I have no experience to base this on and an nowhere near as qualified to say, I dont know that it would be a problem with Draco the particular dog I was working with.


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Robert Blok said:


> Terry, your dog should NOT be going for the legs in Schutzhund. [-x You're gone have a very unhappy helper.
> My current dog works the suit, hidden sleeve as well as the SchH sleeve and shows no problem.
> Robert


Mine do not go for the leg or anything other than the sleeve or hidden sleeve. Of course they have not been working on a bite suite and they are very clear headed. I guess it would be like anything else, depends on the dog, the trainer and how it has been taught to differentiate between the suite and sleeve.


----------



## Michelle Kutelis (Sep 28, 2006)

Draco's worked only occasionally a suit since he was young- but I've yet to see him even LOOK at legs while working in schutzhund, or take a bite anywhere other than the sleeve.

Torro, my retired SchH3 dog, did suit bites his whole life, and he never bit a decoy anywhere other than on the sleeve if it was presented. He even worked on a suit the weekend before we competed at the USA SchH3 Nationals.

I like my dogs to do a variety of things- I think it makes for a more well-rounded dog. And I feel if the training and handling is good, the dog should not have any conflict knowing WHERE and WHAT to bite.

But then, thats just me.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Dogs know what is up, and unless your dog has shown a tendancy to bite the unprotected areas in the first place, I doubt that you will have a problem.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Terry Fisk said:


> Kadi since you have had dogs in both sports, how does working on a bite suite affect a schutzhund dog? Do you find they have a problem distinguishing between the two sports causing a conflict on where and when to bite?


With the right dog, if done correctly, I haven't seen any problems. With Crash one day we'd bring out a Sch sleeve, the next day a suit, he was totally clear on which he was biting that day. The only thing we'd do is show him the decoy up close before doing a long send, if the first bite was to be a send. That way he'd know his target before even starting down the field, vs figuring out when he got closer. I've gone back and forth between sleeve and suit with Enzo, Crash, Cali, Lory, Chaos, JaJa, Link and probably a few others  Never had a problem.

My concern with mixing the two sports would be less in the bite and more in the obedience around the bite. In French Ring you work the out/recall a lot. But in Sch if your dog gets confused and starts to do an out/recall, then remembers it's Sch and they should be guarding, people will assume it's a weakness in the dog, since Sch dogs are never recalled from a bite. It doesn't cross most people's mind that the dog might have some cross training, they just assume the dog was going to leave a guard, huge Sch no-no, then decided to stick it out. I think if you are going to cross train it's very important to make sure the dog is 100% clear on sleeve/verbal = out/guard and suit/whistle = out/recall but suit/verbal = out/guard.


----------



## Uwe Doose (Aug 16, 2007)

Terry Fisk said:


> Kadi since you have had dogs in both sports, how does working on a bite suite affect a schutzhund dog? Do you find they have a problem distinguishing between the two sports causing a conflict on where and when to bite? We have a Mal and I know if we taught him to work a bite suite he would have no problem taking leg bites on the schutzhund helper!
> 
> Terry


The biggest problem I see is people that have no experience. They are working their dog on the suit, then the sleeve, then something else. Everyweek something different. You need to make training very clear for the dog. Doing something different at every session will create conflict in the dog. If the dog is worked correctly in both suit work and sleeve there should be no problem working one or the other. But keep it clear for the dog.
Uwe


----------

