# Can you make a career in detection?



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

I know a woman that has a drug detection dog and has a business doing that (dont know how successful she is), and Ive heard about former law enforcement/military guys having a business where they do explosives detection.


Anyone familiar with this?


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

How about bed bug detection!


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Or termites...


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Doug Zaga said:


> How about bed bug detection!


I can't believe people would actually look for these bugs, wouldn't the bites tell you they are in your bed ??

I think STD detection at the door of bars would make a fortune, it would be a service to mankind at the least.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Aggressive alert, I suppose? :-o \\/ :lol:


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

yea more money in bed bugs
they dont check single homes mostly its hotels, dorms, places people stay short periods and may bring them, you dont want the next person getting them as if anyone finds out you loose all your business
another place is rental furniture stores, used clothing stores ect...

our extermination company flys a guy and his dog into michigan from florida with his bed bug dog


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I'd suggest stink bugs but they don't move very fast!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I know a guy that in the private sector that is making a go of it...
He had to go through certification process, because he intends to assist LE at times. I do know that he also plans to do home searches for parents who think or know that their kids are doing drugs, and he also plans to do school locker sweeps...haven't talked to him lately about how it is going for him though, mostly just get bit by his dogs...


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Narcotic & bomb dogs private sector especially in the big cities is big money and alot of them out there doing still, became big after 9-11. Also Bed bugs detection in NYC is also big money, many tenant buildings within the city, out skirts of the city and also northern jersey and southern conneticut. Also certain parts of Canada.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Cruser used to have a basset (maybe a beagle?) that could detect mold. Great for home inspections. I've also heard of dogs trained to sniff out defective Chinese dry wall that was such a problem. I don't think there's many things a dog can't be trained to detect, as long as there is a distinctive odor to it.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Harry Keely said:


> Also certain parts of Canada.


I know that there is a fair bit of private detection work in Fort McMurray, AB (think oil sands). I think it is a lot of retired LE/RCMP...but perhaps that is not a requirement. Not sure.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I know that there is a fair bit of private detection work in Fort McMurray, AB (think oil sands). I think it is a lot of retired LE/RCMP...but perhaps that is not a requirement. Not sure.


Jennifer couldn't tell ya to be honest I just have talked with and also have heard of these private sectors in a quanity in Vancouver area especially the narc side. I have three pups from my breeding that there coming up on a year old in october and there all still continuing to excel and hopes to get them in service soon. I do know there is a certified test now to do it from what I was told. So at least there holded them up to some kind of standing instead of yahoos certifying there own dogs and using them.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> I know a woman that has a drug detection dog and has a business doing that (dont know how successful she is), and Ive heard about former law enforcement/military guys having a business where they do explosives detection.
> 
> 
> Anyone familiar with this?


I haven't heard of any private detection companys doing that well around Minnesota.

Several years ago we trained a Mercury detecting dog for the Minnesota Polution Control Agency . First one on this side of the planet , 3 or 4th in the world . I think the Dutch trained the first ones ever . 

That dog retired and was never replaced . I know the handler went all over the country checking factories and schools for mercury contamination . There certainly seemed to be a market for that . Obviously it's a horrible substance to be training with though .

http://smartdogs.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Sorry it was Sweden that trained the first Mercury detection K9s . 

Here's a little more info . 

http://www.mercuryinschools.uwex.edu/act/clancy.htm


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Tim Cruser used to have a basset (maybe a beagle?) that could detect mold. Great for home inspections. I've also heard of dogs trained to sniff out defective Chinese dry wall that was such a problem. I don't think there's many things a dog can't be trained to detect, as long as there is a distinctive odor to it.


Theres a couple of companies in the Greater Vancouver area doing this as well. I think it's a great business, especially for cities with a wet climate.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> Jennifer couldn't tell ya to be honest I just have talked with and also have heard of these private sectors in a quanity in Vancouver area especially the narc side. I have three pups from my breeding that there coming up on a year old in october and there all still continuing to excel and hopes to get them in service soon. I do know there is a certified test now to do it from what I was told. So at least there holded them up to some kind of standing instead of yahoos certifying there own dogs and using them.


I'm pretty sure the dogs are certified through the Justice Institute in New Westminster,BC.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Adam Rawlings said:


> I'm pretty sure the dogs are certified through the Justice Institute in New Westminster,BC.


Have no clue to be exact Adam, I was just told that there being held to a certified standard, if I happen to hear who or what the org is I defently let you know though.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Harry Keely said:


> , I was just told that there being held to a certified standard, .


Interesting play on words. Certifed v. held to a certified standard. To me, that would mean the the dog is measured against the same standard as a "certified" dog. The difference being, the measurement is not officially recognized.

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

A friend of mine, a retired police officer and his wife, have their own business. He is currently a civilian. He's has the necessary licenses for both drugs and explosives (it can be done) and they both work a drug and an explosives detector dog. They purchased their dogs from a known trainer/vendor and recieve annual certification from that training kennel. It can be done. 

DFrost


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

a good friend of mine is an OSHA compliance consultant / safety/inspector for a very large manufacturing company. they are now using private detection dog services to search personnel, break rooms/ locker rooms and vehicles at some of thier facilities in florida and intend to begin using them at all thier manufacturing facilites across the country. apparently it costs a lot, but they are happy with the benefits.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I found the certification standards on J.I. website. 

http://www.jibc.ca/police/programs/... Dog Validation StanadrdsJune09 doc - new.pdf


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

chris haynie said:


> a good friend of mine is an OSHA compliance consultant / safety/inspector for a very large manufacturing company. they are now using private detection dog services to search personnel, break rooms/ locker rooms and vehicles at some of thier facilities in florida and intend to begin using them at all thier manufacturing facilites across the country. apparently it costs a lot, but they are happy with the benefits.


They should also employ them at the Chrysler plant in DEtroit :wink::-\"


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Companys that use these extra measures to keep people in the work place safe get, from some insurance companys, a discounted rate on their insurance. So in the long run it's not that expensive to the insurance companys or the work place company.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Interesting play on words. Certifed v. held to a certified standard. To me, that would mean the the dog is measured against the same standard as a "certified" dog. The difference being, the measurement is not officially recognized.
> 
> DFrost


Yea David I couldn't answer honestly but I pretty much worded it to u guys the way it was worded to me. Like I said though if I get more pinpoint info I will share it.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

There was a guy over here that had a drug dog and he would charge worried parents 200$ to put his dog through their suspect kids rooms and belongings to see if the dog would pick up any scent. He wouldnt touch the drugs, nor inform authorities.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Christopher Jones said:


> There was a guy over here that had a drug dog and he would charge worried parents 200$ to put his dog through their suspect kids rooms and belongings to see if the dog would pick up any scent. He wouldnt touch the drugs, nor inform authorities.


$200 a day consistently is not feasible for any company, for an individual you could get by..but it would have to be a cash deal, which wouldn't be likely.

Better to have a Sham Wow franchise.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

So here is a question. I am used to thinking of this with the mindset of keeping an unbroken history of certifications, training records out the wazoo, and defense attorneys................and even then no dog is 100% though they darned better be up in the mid 90s or higher.......

So you do this for private. What kind of liability do you face if someone alleges that they lost their job due to some unfounded "finding" by a for hire drug dog? Or some kid goes off the deep end when confronted with unfounded drug evidence. I could see something like that in court?

Or someone tears out wood due to termite damage - and there was none - 

or it leaks out a hotel has bedbugs when they don't and it costs them a lot of business.

Would a general business liability policy cover such things? Are they there for dog detection models?


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Companys that use these extra measures to keep people in the work place safe get, from some insurance companys, a discounted rate on their insurance. So in the long run it's not that expensive to the insurance companys or the work place company.


that is the primary reason the people my friend work for are doing this. that and once their HR department did some looking into it they figured it would be cheaper to send some highly trained empolyees to "treatment and rehab" for some things rather than spend X amount of $$ to retrain someone to operate one of thier rediculous complex machines that takes years to learn. if they waint until an accdient happens and then search they pretty much have to involve the police and employee X is at the mercy of the law, but if they find someone w/ dope on them before an accident happens they have the option to call in the police or handle it themselves with discplinary actions/ rehab/ etc. 

apparently their insurance discounts at thier facilites in FLA where they are currently doing this was enough for them to justify the gradual rollout of private detection sweeps at all of their manufacturing plants in the country. we were talking about cost efficient staffing and hiring practices when it came up. I guess the insurance company figures if they put in the $$ to create a very effective deterent to work place substance abuse than they can cut them a break on their premiums. 

I just pee test all my people before employement begins and randomly, and i get a decent insurance discount from that too. we're small enough that nobody could get away with shit w/o me noticing, but if we expand to the point of having very large facilities i would certainly be interested in detection dog sweeps.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Nancy, this is my understanding:

So here is a question. I am used to thinking of this with the mindset of keeping an unbroken history of certifications, training records out the wazoo, and defense attorneys................and even then no dog is 100% though they darned better be up in the mid 90s or higher.......

So you do this for private. What kind of liability do you face if someone alleges that they lost their job due to some unfounded "finding" by a for hire drug dog?

None, it would never be unfounded. If the drugs are found on his person or car or locker. It is what it is. Now it depends on what the company wants to do with this person. Most companies have sop’s for possession of drugs.

Or some kid goes off the deep end when confronted with unfounded drug evidence. I could see something like that in court? 

If the kid is in possession of the drugs it doesn’t matter how they are found, school or God forbid at home. LOL

Or someone tears out wood due to termite damage - and there was none – 

The dogs will never be 100% so it would be up to the exterminating Company to drill to make sure before any walls would be torn out.

or it leaks out a hotel has bedbugs when they don't and it costs them a lot of business.

Again it wouldn’t be unfounded. Bed bugs are large enough to be seen it’s just faster to run a dog through than to do it the old way of pulling carpet back, turning mattress over and looking behind baseboards.

Would a general business liability policy cover such things? Are they there for dog detection models?

Contracts with the people you are searching for would also help.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> So here is a question. I am used to thinking of this with the mindset of keeping an unbroken history of certifications, training records out the wazoo, and defense attorneys................and even then no dog is 100% though they darned better be up in the mid 90s or higher.......
> 
> So you do this for private. What kind of liability do you face if someone alleges that they lost their job due to some unfounded "finding" by a for hire drug dog? Or some kid goes off the deep end when confronted with unfounded drug evidence. I could see something like that in court?
> 
> ...


Nothing you do will 100% keep you from being sued . But when you train , deploy and investigate properly and have written(reports , certifications , training logs , etc. ) and/or physical proof in theses areas it sure cuts down on your chances of being sued . It also increases the chances for a successful outcome for the handler and his/hers' employer if they do get sued .


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jim Nash said:


> Nothing you do will 100% keep you from being sued . But when you train , deploy and investigate properly and have written(reports , certifications , training logs , etc. ) and/or physical proof in theses areas it sure cuts down on your chances of being sued . It also increases the chances for a successful outcome for the handler and his/hers' employer if they do get sued .


You point out, in my opinion, the most critical items when protecting your unit for litigation. While it's true there anyone can sue, it's prevailing that causes the problem. Train to documented standards. Measure those standards on a regular basis. Use the dog in accordance with written procedures. In my experience, training records that document the mistakes along with the procedures used to correct those mistakes are much better protection than trying to hide something. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Adam Rawlings said:


> I found the certification standards on J.I. website.
> 
> http://www.jibc.ca/police/programs/... Dog Validation StanadrdsJune09 doc - new.pdf


I am an advocate of annual certification. Even with that, one must recognize, a certification is a one time event. It's one look at a dog on a particular time, on a particular day. The key to a true evaluation of a dog's ability is a review of the training AND utilization records.

DFrost


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I have never heard of one but is there a mandated cerification for a private Company doing searches for private indivduals and or private companys? If I'm asked by a parent to come into his home and check to see if little Johnny has got narcotics in the home, then no search laws apply. When it is found or not ,that is what the parent has asked for. Either little Johnny gets help or the home is searched one more time at a later date.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> I have never heard of one but is there a mandated cerification for a private Company doing searches for private indivduals and or private companys? If I'm asked by a parent to come into his home and check to see if little Johnny has got narcotics in the home, then no search laws apply. When it is found or not ,that is what the parent has asked for. Either little Johnny gets help or the home is searched one more time at a later date.


There is no federally mandated standard for certifying PSD's not sure about different states or localities . Minnesota doesn't require certification but I'd guess over 90% are certified through the USPCA . Having been certified by a police K9 organization with good requirements and many having been recognizied previously by the courts in a good light helps in court . 

I can just tell you that just because someone (a parent in your case) is cooperative one moment doesn't mean they will be later especially if there's a chance to make a buck .


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> $200 a day consistently is not feasible for any company, for an individual you could get by..but it would have to be a cash deal, which wouldn't be likely.
> 
> Better to have a Sham Wow franchise.


It doesnt take a full day to put a dog over a kids bedroom, and bags.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

OK, maybe I'm confussed about what we are talking about. PSD's I know have to be certified and have to have the records to back them up. Is there case law in the private sector? Would there need to be case law in the private sector? 

Jim, bear with me here but your last sentence lost me. What am I missing here? IF someone does a search in a home where he has been invited and the question is, Does my child have drugs in my home? Assumption of is he using these drugs? We don't know this but if drugs are found then he must submit to a piss test which has nothing to do with the search. That's on the parents. They just want to know and with a search that could indicate yes or no. When or if it is found it's up to them to handle little Johnny, not the searcher. The searcher did his job and is now out of it. How could they come back on the searcher and why would they? If I'm missing something let me know.

This is a problem that I can see happening. Finding a lot. This must be turned over to law enforcement. 

Problem number two. If you do find a lot and the police get involved this is great. BUT now the word is out that drugs are being found by a private company so who is going to protect them? The dealers will want the private company eliminated.

Thanks in advance.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> OK, maybe I'm confussed about what we are talking about. PSD's I know have to be certified and have to have the records to back them up. Is there case law in the private sector? Would there need to be case law in the private sector?
> 
> Jim, bear with me here but your last sentence lost me. What am I missing here? IF someone does a search in a home where he has been invited and the question is, Does my child have drugs in my home? Assumption of is he using these drugs? We don't know this but if drugs are found then he must submit to a piss test which has nothing to do with the search. That's on the parents. They just want to know and with a search that could indicate yes or no. When or if it is found it's up to them to handle little Johnny, not the searcher. The searcher did his job and is now out of it. How could they come back on the searcher and why would they? If I'm missing something let me know.
> 
> ...


Techniquely PSDs are not required by law to be certified . At least federally , individual state laws may be different . There is no " requirement " at least in my area legally or for court purposes to be certified . BUT the courts have traditionally looked highly upon a K9 that is certified by a recognized Police K9 organization in determining the K9's qualifications , either in criminal or civil court . I feel very confident in saying a PSD in my area that goes before the court in my area without a certification has a slim chance at winning in court . Why? Because it's one of the first things asked for when something K9 related goes to court .

My guess is since PSD's really have no certification "requirement" civilian detector K9s may not also . 

As for your example , I'd say most civilian K9 teams in that situation would be fine . As long as the people you did the search for are honest . Now say they descide later that your search resulted in alot of "emotional" stress for them and later questioned the K9's actual qualifications or abilities and descide to sue then it's another story . I know that's a long shot but remember there is alot of emotions that family and friends go through when dealing with drug addiction . The addicted are great liars and manipulators of those close to them and family and friends often flip flop from tough love to defensiveness and denial of their loved ones problems . They can often enough see an outsider who original was helping them and assisted in pointing out or varifying their loved ones problems to later seeing this outsider as the who made their problems worse or mislead them in believing their loved one had a problem . 

Long story short Jerry is that a good certification can definately be a big part of a larger puzzle in helping K9 teams , be they law enforcement or civilians , in court . Certifications may not be a "requirement" but they sure don't hurt .


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Doesnt sound like an issue, just like with the police, the id doesnt mean much, the drugs do. If a dog barked at a kids backpack or person's desk and nothing was found, you would just explain that a false positive could be a result of an item having been there, or be unexplainable, and you could tell them ahead of time that you are 98% accurate, etc. As long as the dog wasnt id'ng stuff left and right (all wrong) there shouldnt be a problem




Jim Nash said:


> Nothing you do will 100% keep you from being sued . But when you train , deploy and investigate properly and have written(reports , certifications , training logs , etc. ) and/or physical proof in theses areas it sure cuts down on your chances of being sued . It also increases the chances for a successful outcome for the handler and his/hers' employer if they do get sued .


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

chris haynie said:


> that is the primary reason the people my friend work for are doing this. that and once their HR department did some looking into it they figured it would be cheaper to send some highly trained empolyees to "treatment and rehab" for some things rather than spend X amount of $$ to retrain someone to operate one of thier rediculous complex machines that takes years to learn. if they waint until an accdient happens and then search they pretty much have to involve the police and employee X is at the mercy of the law, but if they find someone w/ dope on them before an accident happens they have the option to call in the police or handle it themselves with discplinary actions/ rehab/ etc.
> 
> apparently their insurance discounts at thier facilites in FLA where they are currently doing this was enough for them to justify the gradual rollout of private detection sweeps at all of their manufacturing plants in the country. we were talking about cost efficient staffing and hiring practices when it came up. I guess the insurance company figures if they put in the $$ to create a very effective deterent to work place substance abuse than they can cut them a break on their premiums.
> 
> I just pee test all my people before employement begins and randomly, and i get a decent insurance discount from that too. we're small enough that nobody could get away with shit w/o me noticing, but if we expand to the point of having very large facilities i would certainly be interested in detection dog sweeps.



chris, how much does the place charge, any idea?


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

David Frost said:


> A friend of mine, a retired police officer and his wife, have their own business. He is currently a civilian. He's has the necessary licenses for both drugs and explosives (it can be done) and they both work a drug and an explosives detector dog. They purchased their dogs from a known trainer/vendor and recieve annual certification from that training kennel. It can be done.
> 
> DFrost




same question, how much?


Its a very realistic possibility for me. Im a firefighter so have lots of days off (even if I have to catch up on sleep like today), and need to find the best, and most interesting side job. Im already doing some, but working with my personal dog would be tough to beat. I train with the pd k9's (and have taken him for some bites), so pretty much have access to everything they do/have with explosives and narcs, also train with another person in a private group that does explosives detection......its just a question of whether I want to spend the time


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

A big thanks to you Jim. Well kept training records is also a must.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

mr. grosch,
i have no idea what it costs. even if i asked i dont think my buddy would know he's just in the OSHA compliance and workplace safety, he told me a few times his bosses handle all the budgetary stuff for his work. i'll ask though. 

i know that they search three large manufacturing and warehouse facilities (over 50,000 sqft) and have an annual contract setup for a multiple searches per year in each facility. i wanna say they got one a month per facility and up to 6 "random" searches per year per facility. 

i'd imagine that setting up long term contracts for recurring services with large manufacturing facilities, private educational institutions (private high schools and private colleges), and other large corporate entities would be the way to bring in the big bucks. building a detection business around searching little Jonny's room for bags of weed would be difficult. 

In a way i'd figure you'd want to model you business plan around large nationally francised service providers like commercial cleaning services (JaniKing, Servpro, etc), pest contro (terminex, Orkin) l, landscaping maintence (lawn doctor), etc.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

i bet getting an explosives dog and setting up contracts with sporting arenas, large concert venues, speaking halls, conference centers, etc. would be pretty lucrative too...


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Chris is right, little Johnny won't get you the big bucks but is a good marketing tool. You would want to show concern for your community and the well being of the kids.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

chris haynie said:


> i bet getting an explosives dog and setting up contracts with sporting arenas, large concert venues, speaking halls, conference centers, etc. would be pretty lucrative too...


That's overtime for our Bomb dogs .


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

How about bed bug, termites, and lost pets detection? All three together? how many pet owners do you think will call you about their lost pets? If your dog is trained to find their lost pets, I'm sure the service is going to be useful!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jim Nash said:


> That's overtime for our Bomb dogs .


We do NASCAR, NHRA, Titans (NFL) Country Music Awards and all that nonsense. Some of it's OT, other times we have to schedule it are regular duty, depending on how busy we've been.


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