# Article in USA Today



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Did anyone read the article in USA Today where the author questions the need to go overseas to get dogs from Europe????

I was curious as to what everyone thought. It was interesting talking to the dog guys from Lackland as they basically said that there are not enough breeders, too few dogs to go and look here in the states very often. 

Basically they have to send an evaluation team and the cost of sending them to look at the few prospects out there are cost prohibitive, but they will go and look if they are asked. 

This is where the whole more than 1 litter a decade or your a puppy miller bullshit has gotten us.

I thought that the article was very biased and pretty much complete BS. I think I should submit a resume over at USA Today as I will be more than glad to write articles for money that are so brutally biased just to get a public reaction.

Wonder how much it pays? ? ? ? ?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I read that. In fact, even though we buy a small quantity of dogs relatively speaking, we expect some fall out from that article. The vendors we deal with have dogs available, but 99 of 100 of them are imports. Not that many people in the US want to hang on to a crapshoot for 18 months and then sell it for 2 grand. It's a lot more work (raising a potential working dog) than many of those folks think.

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I actually considered writing a letter to the editor, but I do not have enough "hard facts" about how everyone goes about buying dogs.

I do have enough info about how few pups are produced here in the states. The one breeder that was talked to I have never heard of.

The sad thing about writing to the editor, is that not enough people will read it, as opposed to being able to respond in kind with an article of your own........on the front page.

I think the bias is what truely pissed me off the most.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I believe this is the USA Today article in question:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-22-Securitydogs_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Oh and here is the website of this Michelle Denson person who is quoted in the article as saying she sells Malinois to police departments for $1,000.. Judging by her website, she is breeding for the Canadian and American conformation show ring, which according to the article, means her dogs are even more valuable. :!:








http://www.mystiquemalinois.com/


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

> This is where the whole more than 1 litter a decade or your a puppy miller bullshit has gotten us.


So your next pup is coming from JoeFarm right??


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

read the comments people made. Some funny stuff in there. It shows how little people really know about what goes into evaluating and training a working dog.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Dan Long said:


> read the comments people made. Some funny stuff in there. It shows how little people really know about what goes into evaluating and training a working dog.


Totally! Though some of the comments are very well done and a great rebuttal. Especially the one person who touted Ivan Balabanov's Ot Vitosha kennel and his online prices for trained dogs which were higher than the Euro imports!! 

The article like Jeff says is typical misinformed BS that the Oprah and Dr Phil followers lap up like a kitten does milk in a bowl.

Like you say _John/Joan Q Public_ has no clue. I know what it takes to train just a French Ring Brevet, the time and money I have invested is short of crazy. 'If' my dog was for sale I wouldn't even think of less than $5000 or more and I'd be losing money. So I can just imagine what it takes to do a border patrol/security/PSD contraband/bomb dog properly. 



> Michelle Denson, who breeds Belgian Malinois dogs in Ocala, Fla., says her dogs are no different from European dogs. She says she has sold some to police departments for $1,000. "There's plenty of American breeders who breed these kinds of dogs," she says, "and they don't charge this exorbitant amount of money."


 Has she heard of Ot Vitosha? I'm sure she has since she is in FLA. For a trained dog that can do the work it is not a exorbitant amount of money. I wonder how her $1000 pup fared in PSD selection? Just because it was sold to a PD dept doesn't mean it wasn't a washout. Looking at her website and seeing her dogs accomplishments I'd be wondering if the pup was sold to a police officer as a family pet not as a patrol dog!!


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I really don't see an issue with what was written. The US does breed far more Fee Fee, Fluffy F^@&$ than real working dogs. Going to Holland or Belgium will sertainly render a higher % of breeders in a small area. The DOD has a website and 1-800# you can call, if you would like to talk to them about selling your dogs to them. I looked into it a couple years ago and believe they require, a breeder to send dogs on their dime to Lackland and then also pay to send it back if it fails to pass their tests. Would be wiser to group as many dogs as possible and drive down with them and drive the rejected dogs home with you. Not many people who I know can do this. I have a real job, I'd have to take leave from to do this. Now the price of gas is too rediculous to even think about driving. How many dogs would you need to sell them to make it profitable? I'm in CA a long drive. Maybe local breeders would have better luck?

My goal is to breed and sell dog for the Gov't for American security and protection. Anybody have a good in lemme know. Not a better job to give a dog, than to serve our country.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

> Michelle Denson, who breeds Belgian Malinois dogs in Ocala, Fla., says her dogs are no different from European dogs.


I thought this was funny. Her first litter sired by a narc and SAR dog, second litter sired by KNPV titled dog, and then only "pretty dogs" from there on. They even look artificial, in the same way as supermodels. The brag page on her website says it all... No mention of any policedogs, that's for sure! :lol:


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## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

> A typical purebred in the USA sells for about $1,200. A show dog could go for as much as $2,000.


Yuppers!! A purebred foofy house pet lap dog goes for about $1200. Add looks and he becomes a show dog for another $800.



> The government imports hundreds of untrained bomb- and drug-sniffing dogs from Europe each year for as much as $4,535 apiece, four times the price charged by American breeders, says a federal report out today


Almost 4 times the cost of a foofy house pet. Theory being that you get what you pay for...


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

marcy bukkit said:


> Almost 4 times the cost of a foofy house pet. Theory being that you get what you pay for...


Bingo!! =D> Imagine that!!


Typical pet owner said:


> But you know my American Showline Shepherd and cockapoo can track bad guys and detect dope, but he is so smart he just choses not too.


 :-k


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## Stephanie O'Brien (Sep 11, 2007)

I thought Lackland had a 'puppy program' ?? What is the status of that? I know they still buy dogs but why are they still buying so many if they have there own breeding program?


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

The puppy program is lucky to produce 50 dogs that are suitable for the program a year. Our requirements to fill all the different programs means that we need to purchase 600+ dogs a year. 

We tend to buy about 30% of the dogs we evaluate, which means that we would need to test 1800+ dogs a year just to get the amount of dogs needed to meet demands.

T


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

tim--where do you find enough "evaluators" to test 1800+ dogs/year? that just kinda blows my mind right there....or maybe that's the reason why i may aquire a "washed-out" dog from lackland.....

which reminds me: what's the most common reason for a dog being washed-out? i've called down there (a week ago) and haven't gotten an answer from them.


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

There are 3 of us that handle the evaluation of dogs. We have vendors bringing us dogs from the U.S. weekly. They normally bring small numbers of dogs (5-10).

When we travel to Europe, a trip usually consists of us testing about 300 dogs a trip. I know it seems like a lot of dogs, but the system runs smoothly. We take a vet,vet tech,logistics person,2-3 handlers and 2 evaluators. 

Dogs fail out for numerous reasons. There really isn't one reason that sticks out. That is what makes my job difficult. If a dog is purchased that does not work out, everyone wants to point their finger at the evaluator that purchased them. 

It is important for us as evaluators to be consistent and try to buy the best dogs that we can to work in the military environment that they are being purchased for. 

Some people feel that we can sometimes ask for too much out of a dog, but it is important when our troops lives are on the line.

T


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Tim Bartlett said:


> Dogs fail out for numerous reasons. There really isn't one reason that sticks out. That is what makes my job difficult.



Could you give some examples Tim. I know I'd like to hear why some dogs flunk. Maybe even some examples of what you look for in a dog that would pass. I think it would be interesting to hear what your team is up against.


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## Betty Mathena (Apr 19, 2006)

Tim Bartlett said:


> There are 3 of us that handle the evaluation of dogs. We have vendors bringing us dogs from the U.S. weekly. They normally bring small numbers of dogs (5-10).
> 
> When we travel to Europe, a trip usually consists of us testing about 300 dogs a trip. I know it seems like a lot of dogs, but the system runs smoothly. We take a vet,vet tech,logistics person,2-3 handlers and 2 evaluators.
> 
> ...


This is interesting! Can you tell us what you look for? Are you purchasing totally green dogs or like some foundation training on them?

I know that different evaluators probably have different likes, maybe it would just be easier to say what your "perfect" canidate would be.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Betty Mathena said:


> This is interesting! Can you tell us what you look for? Are you purchasing totally green dogs or like some foundation training on them?
> 
> I know that different evaluators probably have different likes, maybe it would just be easier to say what your "perfect" canidate would be.


 
I agree, these ar the dogs I want to shoot for when I breed. The more info I can get, the better. Do you have a few breeders that are a regular source or is it more hit and miss? It would be good to know just how hard they like their dogs at Lackland.


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## Stephanie O'Brien (Sep 11, 2007)

Tim Bartlett said:


> Some people feel that we can sometimes ask for too much out of a dog, but it is important when our troops lives are on the line.
> 
> T


This is very true. Our military (and L.E.) shouldn't settle for less. Well said Tim.

Thanks for clarifying the program.


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

Here is all the info you need in regards to how we purchase dogs. All of this is public knowledge and can be found on the internet.

http://www.lackland.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-061211-005.pdf

We have no breeders that sell us dogs. It is not that we do not allow breeders, it just seems that they choose to sell their dogs to other clients. (At probably a higher price). Dogs have to be a minimum of 1 year of age, so keeping a litter of pups that long for a breeder would not be the best idea. Most of the people that sell us dogs in the states are actually getting their dogs from overseas as well.

We normally buy only "green dogs", however, when you look at what is required from the dogs, it is hardly considered "green". Dog's just don't come out of the whelping box and perform all of the tests that are required.

In regards to what fails dogs, medical evaluations are a big factor. We have lost some of the best dogs due to having HD, etc. 

The biggest reasons for failure on my end is low reward drive, environmental problems, weak bite, no defense, skittish and gunshyness.

There are a host of other things that can fail a dog, but those tend to be the big ones.

All 3 of us MUST adhere to the statement of work. I know each of us prefers a different type of dog, however, the test must be consistent. If we do not follow the statement of work, it will become more and more difficult to obtain the number of dogs we need.

In regards to the USA Today article:---) .....If they would have done their research, they would realize that there is a lot more involved than going to buy a "showline" puppy and sending it to Iraq.=;


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## Betty Mathena (Apr 19, 2006)

I found that after I posted.....the thread made me curious enough to google. Thanks!


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