# Acupuncture and Chinese Herbals



## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

I write today, requesting any information, knowledge, experience, or know of anyone with the aforementioned, relating to acupuncture and chinese herbals as a treatment for a canine kidney (acute or chronic) disease.

My 5 1/2 year old shepherd is experiencing what is diagnosed as kidney disease, unknown etiology, unknown progression. HE IS TOO YOUNG TO GO! Tooooo great a dog to let this one slide.

Conventional veterinary medicine has virtually nothing to offer as far as treatment is concerned. The only plan in place (and I have worked with 3 conventional vets including the State Animal Hospital) is to A: biopsy to MAYBE further identify the cause or progression. B: Check blood periodically to identify progression. C: Diet low in phosphorous.

I truly do understand nature taking its course and in the likelihood of this being a case of "born with bad kidneys" like my vet (who I Do trust) tends to think in this case.

However, I have done some homework and have discovered a method with a local holistic vet. She reports based on my dog's current blood levels and his symptoms there is what she believes to be a 75% chance of total recovery using acupuncture and the herbals. 

When I inquired about just using the herbs, she said her interest is completely in the best healthcare treatment for the dog, that acupuncture and herbals are best used together and essentially synergistic.

I'm just picturing my 85 lb dog laying there with needles in him like a damn voodoo doll dog, but yet there is something about this approach that seems valid and very possibly can lead to a recovery. 

The holistic vet was also very upfront about cost. I've decided to give it a try. Our initial session is tomorrow and she does housecalls. 

Anyone? I'll take opinions/questions about my situation, experiences, even if you heard of someone who heard of it....I'm all ears at this point...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Michele McAtee said:


> I write today, requesting any information, knowledge, experience, or know of anyone with the aforementioned, relating to acupuncture and chinese herbals as a treatment for a canine kidney (acute or chronic) disease..............Anyone? I'll take opinions/questions about my situation, experiences, even if you heard of someone who heard of it....I'm all ears at this point...


Here are a couple of starting places:

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/KnowledgeBase/knowledgebasedetail.aspx?articleid=42

http://www.danemist.com/renaldisease.html

http://www.acupuncture.com/animals/dog.htm

http://www.holisticvetpetcare.com/kidney-urinary-disease.htm

And my heart is with you.......... you're doing great to be seeking answers everywhere, IMO.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Michele McAtee said:


> I write today, requesting any information, knowledge, experience, or know of anyone with the aforementioned, relating to acupuncture and chinese herbals as a treatment for a canine kidney (acute or chronic) disease.
> 
> My 5 1/2 year old shepherd is experiencing what is diagnosed as kidney disease, unknown etiology, unknown progression. HE IS TOO YOUNG TO GO! Tooooo great a dog to let this one slide.
> 
> ...


Michelle, while I dont' have experience myself, I do know of a lady who has acupunture done twice a month on her dobermann/rottie mix. The dog has cervical spine problems, hip dysplasia, and a host of other issues. She is also on dermaxx. The owner says she has seen a marked improvement in the dog with the help of th acupuncture.

I also have an aunt who is undergoing treatment for her back; it was injured during an attack by one her special needs clients. She says that she her pain is lessening with each treatment, she has more energy following them, and she overall feels healthier and better since starting about a month ago.

I am also considering gold beading treatment for my dog with HD. It is like a permanent acupuncture; pieces of special gold are injected into specific acupuncture sites.

I wish you the best of luck with this boy and hope the treatments work!!


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

Thank you Connie and Stacia for posting. 

Connie, those links are most helpful. I have been reading, reading, reading; attempting to gain further understanding about the scope of renal disease and its implications. 

Stacia, given the experiences you wrote about, I was able to maintain a confidence about this new treatment approach.

MoJo and I had the initial session today here at the house. The holistic vet, her "bedside manner", pet AND people skills were excellent. VERY professional, descriptive and honest. (ie: success vs. not so successful).

SHe did say my dog "wins the award" for the most well behaved and well mannered animal she's worked with on an initial session. (do you think she just says that to everybody? :lol: The dog was exceptionally relaxed and "open" to this experience. He's just a great dog all the way around.

THankfully, this vet is very supportive of working with my regular vet on the blood levels which we will be checking in one month. 

I am excited about this approach and yet am trying at the same time to remain objective with minimal expectation. 

How's this for a first time experience with acupuncture:

There were 10 needles in my dog, in the various and (I'm trusting) appropriate "nerve bundle centers". The 2 herbals required for his symptoms daily, he ate with his food with minimal baiting.

It's like, I am expecting to spend some dough for my special dog friend who's kidneys are having trouble (the cost is reasonable really).

I am expecting my dog to miracously heal right before my eyes, but not really...(he's not showing any damn symptoms anyway!!! :roll: ) 

But I'm hoping in a month the blood levels will be the same if not lower, and yet I'm expecting the levels to be the same if not higher.

Do I put the dog down now? No.

Do I hope and pray for the best? Yes. 
Isn't this what we do everyday anyway?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Michele McAtee said:


> The holistic vet was also very upfront about cost. I've decided to give it a try. Our initial session is tomorrow and she does housecalls.
> 
> Anyone? I'll take opinions/questions about my situation, experiences, even if you heard of someone who heard of it....I'm all ears at this point...


I'm sure the stuff Connie provides is more than sufficient, but if you want another data point, pick up Jack and Wendy Volhard's "Dog Training for Dummies" (yes, the yellow and back "for Dummies" books). They have a LOT of material on holistic medicine, acupuncture, animal chiropractors, etc.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Another forum member is dealing with canine kidney disease, unknown etiology, unknown progression. He asked me to give him what I could find on nutritional support for this condition. (You may have learned that nutrition plays a big part in the comfort of a dog suffering from renal failure .... second, of course, to hydration.)

If you want to PM me your email address, I will forward to you the research I did for him. (It turned out to exceed the maximum word limit of a PM here.)

I learned that many vets recommend a particular commercial food for dogs with this health challenge, so I checked that out particularly.

The other forum member was not convinced by his vet to buy into the food recommendation, and I feel pretty certain that you wouldn't be, either..... but you still might want to read what I came up with.

Let me know.

P.S. My Harvard-educated primary physician (M.D.) has on her staff an acupuncturist/Chinese herbalist (also an M.D.). Even though I come from a family full of AMA-type health professionals, I have learned and seen enough to open my closed western-med mind!


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

Ok, update to this thread. (posted a copy on Leerburg too, love both forums, honestly)

This health issue with my dog MoJo has been something comparable to lets say, bee in my bonnet? a dog falling down a cliff into white water? a salesman selling snake oil to a little old lady? a major learning experience filled with hope and heartache. 

MoJo, the dog "born with bad kidneys" has had three acupuncture treatments and has been on chinese herbals daily since May in an effort to either arrest blood levels or to even decrease his elevated kidney enzymes.

The 75% chance of the dog getting better turned out to be 0% chance. Maybe it works for some, but I rechecked levels on Friday and results were in Saturday. All levels taken in May increased.

Ironically, back in March, when the dog was first diagnosed with this condition, I put him on Canine Noni, 2 oz a day. Noni is a fruit from Tahaiti with exceptional healing properties for a number of conditions (on any living thing, including plants!!) I take the juice and the company has a line for canine as well. 

His levels from March to May had plateaued with 2 oz of Noni. Then, I stopped Noni when I proceeded with acupuncture and the herbal treatment. From May to now the levels went up.

I will cease acu/herbals and go back to 2 oz of Noni for now. Not only are his coat, eyes, energy, appetite and everything else good, but the levels were leveling when I used it before.

The allopathic (traditional) vet gives the dog a month--give or take, says the dog will stop eating and I will know. Whatever. Homeopathic vet said her mom's yorkie was given a week to live and has been going now for 6 months. 

I will stay honest, objective, fair and responsible given MoJo's symptoms, age (only 6 years old on August 23rd) and general condition. 

My last dog died of renal failure, but she was nearly 14 years old, died naturally at my house. However, I will venture to guess the situation with this MoJo (AWESOME GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG WHO HAS TAUGHT ME AS MUCH AS I HAVE TAUGHT HIM AND WHO HAS HELPED ME TO LEARN AS MUCH AS I POSSIBLY CAN about him, training, health, etc...) will be very different than the old lady wolfshepherd dog (what was I thinking back then???? ). Nothing like a good german shepherd dog. SOOoooo much COOLer (and more obedient!) than a *wolfdog* in the hands of a 18 year old kid!!! 

I will post in a different thread about the interesting nature of my dog's pedigree, but wanted to send this note out as an update.

Thanks for reading (listening) to this MoJo health vent.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Michele

Really sorry to hear about all this.

For what it is worth, you may want to contact jack and wendy volhard directly...I don't know them...but perhaps they would have some insight. Google search will turn up their training site.

Thanks for following up, and again, you have my sympathy!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm so sorry to hear this too. Is his appetite still OK and still on excellent food with high water content?


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