# Attention Ringsport Competitors



## Stephanie O'Brien (Sep 11, 2007)

*posted on behalf of Shannon Nieuwkoop*

NARA members,

NARA is currently enjoying an exciting period of rebuilding and regrowth. The other board members and I have all received positive feedback from numerous NARA members on the level of communication and proactive effort they’ve noticed this year, and we deeply appreciate those comments. In furtherance of those objectives to communicate with the membership and to be proactive on your behalf, I need to let you know about recent events involving ARF, the new group in the USA claiming to sanction French Ringsport competition.
Over the past few weeks, I have been in frequent contact with officials of the CUN in France on the subject of the forming ARF organization here in the United States . To date, little definitive information has been available on this topic. What we currently know is that the SCC, CUN and GTR are aware of the other organization, but that they have not at this time committed, or even offered to sanction ARF or its trials. To be clear, at the present time, ARF trials DO NOT have the sanction of the SCC, CUN or the GTR.
The concern of the NARA BOD is that the existence of this other organization could confuse French Ringsport competitors into entering ARF trials, in the belief that those scores would be sanctioned by the governing bodies in France , and would thus be valid entries in a NARA scorebook. This mistaken belief would undoubtedly work to the disadvantage of NARA members in that they may commit resources for traveling and entering trials that would serve no more benefit than a “mock trial.” 
For these reasons, the BOD agrees unanimously that the existence of a second ringsport organization in the United States is not at all beneficial to NARA or its members, and is, in fact, a detriment to the growth of ringsport in this country. Therefore, NARA cannot support the ARF organization, and will not recognize scores and titles obtained at ARF trials. NARA members are free to choose for themselves whether they wish to support the ARF organization and its trials, but any scores and titles earned there may not be recorded in NARA scorebooks. Further, any scores and titles earned at ARF trials will not be recognized by NARA .
I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you once again for your support of NARA, and promise you that your BOD is working diligently on your behalf to make NARA the best organization it has ever been.



Shannon Nieuwkoop

NARA President and Liaison to France


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Then again, just as an outsiders point of view, NARA has made enough people angry that they went and formed a new organization.

Obviously if there are enough people that feel this strongly about it, then there needs to be some respect and support of this new organization.

Many years ago, Sch split, and the same damn thing was said then about it being detrimental and bla bla bla.

Friendships of many many years were lost because of this. If you don't know history, you will make the same mistakes over and over again.

Just as an outsider, I think it is silly to "ban" another org.

So, maybe this gets NARA to think a little bit. Sch is going strong almost 30 years later.

Besides, does it really matter that there are two organizations promoting FR in the US ????


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

"If you don't know history, you will make the same mistakes over and over again."


You said it, you don't know the history! [-X


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Then why did someone feel the need so strongly to start another org, and really, who cares ?? Not like the numbers are really going up in ring. I know a little about twisting numbers, well ok a LOT about how to spin numbers, and I don't see the masses starting ring clubs. Most "clubs" are quite small, less than 10, many less than 5 'real' members.

But again, who cares ?? Everyone said it would hurt Sch, and it didn't. You have choices, and you can choose which organization to pay your money to.

Besides, ever been to a FR dicussion board ?? bunch of silly backstabbing who is screwing who's wife bullshit. The politics in FR have been shit for a long time, and that is what has turned many away from the sport.

I just cannot see what the big deal about another org is. The response is what I would consider typical of the politics of late, and now people will have a choice of what organization to play under.

I am sure that NARA thinks they are in the right here, but obviously not everyone feels that way. I say good luck to the new organization, and to NARA's new board. 

I will always want to see growth in the ringsports, and you will have to explain in great detail how you figure it is gonna hurt.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

"I know a little about twisting numbers, well ok a LOT about how to spin numbers,"

and you learned all this working at a Gas Station/convient store?


The last trial in So California had 30+ entries. Not bad.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Kyle Sprag said:


> The last trial in So California had 30+ entries. Not bad.


Just to add to what Kyle said the first So Cal trial this year had 25 entries (20/5) (B-FRIII/CSAU). The next one had 41 (32/9) Then there was a Nor Cal trial with 19 entries. And I hear via the grapevine the Empire trial back east this weekend is expecting 8 FRIII entries, so they will probably have 20+ entries. I'm not sure what the projected entries are for the So Cal trial this weekend or the Utah trial in 2 weeks. But if the number of trials, and entries at trials, are any indication, NARA has been experiencing some solid growth lately.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes Kyle, all I have ever done in life was work at a gas station.

Instead of guessing what I am qualified at, why don't you tell us all why it is such a bad idea to have two organizations if the sport is growing so well ???

I like ring sports, so I do not understand all the hostility to having another org.

You seem to have left out why it is so bad in your arguement. I guess taking a shot at my working at a gas station was the better, or maybe easier choice.

Again, who cares ?? It worked wonders for Sch.....well after a rocky start. : )

As for cheap shots, I expect a lot better shot than that. We won't mention that cur of a dog you have. Now THAT is a shot. LOL

Get over it already, you will split for sure by not recognizing titles/legs earned under a french judge and french decoy. How stupid is that ??? 

How did they get the French judge and decoy ??? Is NARA going to tell an official french judge that his scores do not count ??

Just let them have their fun, it is supposed to fun right ???


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

I think that the most important thing that Steph is trying to get across is this....

"To be clear, at the present time, ARF trials DO NOT have the sanction of the SCC, CUN or the GTR."

Until they are recognized, I think people should be aware that they could be potentially trying for a title that is not even recognized. Having 2 organizations is not necessarily a bad thing as long as both are recognized. I would hate to travel for a trial, get a title and then learn that it is invalid. That is the main concern I see in this case.


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## Bob Solimini (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi Tim,
ARF has the SAME status as NARA, no matter what the NARA BoD tells you! The SCC approved our FRENCH Judge, and the GTR/CUN approved our FRENCH Decoy. It was the decision of the CUN that ARF has the same status as NARA. THAT is the truth! The scare tactics they are using are to attempt to negate the second organization and in the long run is detrimental to the sport. That is why they are also stating that it is a "division" of NARA, when it is in fact an addition! 
I hope this clarifies any doubt you had.

Bob Solimini


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

Thanks for the clarification Bob. I was no way taking away anything from the organization. Just trying to sort through some of the things I have heard through the rumor mills. I wish you luck with the new organization.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Over the past few weeks, I have been in frequent contact with officials of the CUN in France on the subject of the forming ARF organization here in the United States . To date, little definitive information has been available on this topic.

Quote: To be clear, at the present time, ARF trials DO NOT have the sanction of the SCC, CUN or the GTR.

If little info is available.........how the heck do you KNOW that they are or are not sanctioned??????

Then again, I hate politicians of any sort.


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## Bob Solimini (Aug 10, 2008)

ARF has the SAME status as NARA, no matter what the NARA BOD tells anyone! The SCC approved the FRENCH Judge, and the GTR/CUN approved the FRENCH Decoy. It was the written decision of the CUN that ARF has the same status as NARA “The Commission does not wish to engage in a choice between the two structures, recognizing that its role is the promotion of the disciplines for which it is responsible ...” THAT is the truth! If NARA has anything in writing to add to this, please show us and let everyone know the truth. Also please show all of us in writing where NARA is approved, recognized, sanctioned, or in any way affiliated with France or where their scores are RECOGNIZED. In addition ANY ONE that has a passing Score in any VALID Score Book at an ARF Trial (especially one with a French Judge and a French Decoy) would be recognized to present their dog at the appropriate level, if they took their dog to compete in France, exactly the same as ANY OTHER association outside of France. So now I guess NARA is saying it is a higher authority than the CUN-CBG! The scare tactics they are using are to attempt to negate the second organization and in the long run is detrimental to the sport. That is why they are also stating that it is a "division" of NARA, when it is in fact an addition to Ringsport!


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## Stephanie O'Brien (Sep 11, 2007)

Bob Solimini said:


> Hi Tim,
> ARF has the SAME status as NARA, no matter what the NARA BoD tells you! The SCC approved our FRENCH Judge, and the GTR/CUN approved our FRENCH Decoy. It was the decision of the CUN that ARF has the same status as NARA. THAT is the truth! The scare tactics they are using are to attempt to negate the second organization and in the long run is detrimental to the sport. That is why they are also stating that it is a "division" of NARA, when it is in fact an addition!
> I hope this clarifies any doubt you had.
> 
> Bob Solimini



Sorry, ARF is NOT an addition to NARA. =; 
ARF is set up, run and organized completely different than NARA. The only similarity between the two organizations is the rules we follow on the field. If ARF were a true addition to NARA, then NARA would have been receptive to the 'addition' of your organization.
It is viewed as a division because the majority of french ringers oppose it. Not only that, it LITERALLY is a 'division'. ARF was formed and set up behind NARA's back. There was no attempt at communication with the NARA BOD or its members at any time during the formation of ARF. 
ARF was created because certain people didnt want to follow the bylaws and policies of NARA. 
There are no 'scare tactics', the NARA BOD has been in constant communication with the officials in France (see the NARA president's letter at the beginning of this thread). This is what we were officially told.


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## Stephanie O'Brien (Sep 11, 2007)

http://boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1239723551&user=nara


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## Laura Ellis (Apr 10, 2009)

I am new to Ringsport and am a member of NARA. I also train for Schutzhund with my young mal. I belong to 2 different Schutzhund organizations, USA and DVG. I train with 2 different clubs, one in each organization. I did that to increase the time that I can train and increase the opportunity to trial and title my dog. We have just started our trialing career. We are hoping to go for our Brevet in the near future. We have a BH. So far this year, there is a grand total of 1 NARA trial which will be held this weeend in New York that is on the East Coast. I wanted to attend but had a prior work commitment. I will be attending the ARF trial in June. This will be the only other opportunity for us to attempt our Brevet on the East Coast this year as of now. If another organization wants to run trials and let us trial our dogs, why is this a bad thing? My schutzhund organizations recognize each others scorebooks. I just want to train and trial my dog, why should I be penalized because I cannot travel to the West Coast to do so? I think this can only help Ringsport, competition can be a good thing. It shows your weaknesses and helps you to become better in all areas. This is true for dogs, individuals, and organizations. I will be at the trial as a learning experience, and with any luck we will pass. At the very least we will have attempted to pass and get better. Good Luck to all competitors, whether it be a NARA trial or an ARF trial.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Thank you Laura....well said! Can someone direct me to the ARF website?


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## JOE SAMSON JR (Feb 24, 2009)

http://arfcanines.com/about.html


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Thank you Joe!


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Yes Kyle, all I have ever done in life was work at a gas station.
> 
> Instead of guessing what I am qualified at, why don't you tell us all why it is such a bad idea to have two organizations if the sport is growing so well ???
> 
> ...


 
Oh Jeff again the answer to your question is the History you mentioned; the motivation, rational, reason, purpose. No "hostility"

No cheap shot intended, sory you feel that way I was simply trying to guage your self proclaimed Mathmatical Prowes. Now if you wrote that you were a former accountant, Bookie, Bernie Madoff advisor etc..... Well?

Not sure what any dogs I handle, train and/or trial has to do with this subject but whatever makes you feel good go for it. What people think about what I do or not doesn't bother me much. I have seen some of the stuff you hail as great and was not impressed, no big deal we all have our likes and dis-likes.

Yes it is supposed to be fun, I have a great time with it!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
Oh Jeff again the answer to your question is the History you mentioned; the motivation, rational, reason, purpose. No "hostility"

So this is the answer you want to have for the record ??? It sounds like you do not know what the history is, or figure that there will be repercussions if you speak up.

Quote:
No cheap shot intended, sory you feel that way I was simply trying to guage your self proclaimed Mathmatical Prowes.

So what, I am an asshole now, and I don't know when some dick is taking a shot at me ?? Get real, you took a shot. Call a spade a spade Kyle. But for ****s sake, ask for help, you suck at it.

If you don't want to discuss this, then fine, just say so, but don't tell me I do not know the history and then puss out on telling me what it is that I am missing.

The cheese eating surrender monkeys are gonna let ARF stand. All this BS about recognition is just that, bullshit. I have never once read anything about France "recognizing" the US. 

In a perfect world, we all get along. That would be great. However, what happens when NARA who appears to have little say whatsoever in whether or not another organization is allowed or not with the french, decides to not accept a score, or a scorebook, and then the legal battle is on.

Just sounds like they got outmanuevered politically, and are now in shark infested waters.


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## Stephanie O'Brien (Sep 11, 2007)

*Posted on behalf of Shannon Nieuwkoop (NARA President)*

Dear NARA Members,

Over the past several weeks, the Board of Directors has devoted many hours attempting to determine the validity of the ARF organization, and to analyzing their possible benefit or detriment to French Ringsport in North America. After diligent efforts to determine the most fruitful course of action for you, the members we represent, we would like to update you on the NARA BOD's position in the matter of the ARF organization and its events.

Drawing heavily from member input, the NARA BOD agrees unanimously that the existence of a second ringsport organization in the United States is divisive and not at all beneficial to NARA or its members. In fact, we believe that ARF constitutes a detriment to the growth of ringsport in North America. Accordingly, NARA cannot and will not recognize scores or titles given at ARF events. Our Canadian counterparts in the CRA support this position; they have also decided not to recognize ARF scores or titles.

While NARA does not recognize the validity of ARF as a proper sanctioning body for official French Ringsport competitions within North America, we recognize that opportunities to gain trial-like experience are extremely valuable. Therefore, we think it is in the best interest of our members to remain neutral in our position on the issue of NARA members who participate in ARF events.

One thing that merits repeating for anyone who may consider supporting ARF by participating in an ARF event, is that because NARA does not recognize ARF scores and titles, they may not be recorded in NARA scorebooks. Similarly, a NARA decoy who chooses to assist ARF in conducting an event may not record it in his or her NARA decoy book.

The NARA BOD continues to correspond with officials in France regarding the complications and ambiguities caused by the creation of the ARF organization. To date, the information received directly from CUN and GTR officials has been inconsistent, but the BOD is working diligently to clarify the situation. As more information becomes available, we will ensure that you are informed promptly and accurately. Only in this way can we be sure that NARA will be able to move ahead in a productive and unified manner. Thank you once again for your support and for your patience during this situation.

Sincerely,
Your representatives on the NARA Board of Directors,

Shannon Nieuwkoop, President and Liaison to France
Erin Sugget, Vice President
Jeffyn Peterson, Secretary
Kadi Thingvall, Treasurer
Jeremy Talamantes, Western Zone Representative
Eddie Zipperstein, Central Zone Reprentative
Brian Brannon, Eastern Zone Representative


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Stephanie O'Brien said:


> we believe that ARF constitutes a detriment to the growth of ringsport in North America. Accordingly, NARA cannot and will not recognize scores or titles given at ARF events.


How so? More trials on the east coast would be a detriment to the growth of ringsport in north America?
How so?

It's interesting the terminology used here. "North America."

I live in Halifax Nova Scotia Canada, which is in North American....

I got my first Malinois a few years ago, with the intent of doing ring with the dog.
After figuring out that the CRA is a monopoly in Canada, and does NOTHING at all to make the sport grow in Canada.... I honestly almost quit the idea of ring.

This brings me to the ARF news. I was excited that the ARF might open up doors in Canada, so that I could finally open a club in Halifax. A club that would have nothing to do with the CRA.

We have the land, the money, the equiptment, the dogs, the decoys and the people. If Nara or the CRA really cared about Ring, more than there ego's they would let the ARF roll, and watch ring grow. 

Politics will not help ring grow. 

The stance Nara and the CRA have taken on the ARF are hurting ringsport in my opinion. 

So really, if the ARF was able to advance at least in Canada, which is in North America, North America would have one more French ring club.

I'd like to know how the ARF will be a detriment to the growth of ringsport in North America? 
Did you guys mean to say that it would be a detriment to Nara? ...... Or a detriment to ringsport in North America, just checking?
Peace.


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## Stephanie O'Brien (Sep 11, 2007)

Ted, all your points and questions are valid concerns. You may get the answers to the questions you are asking by visiting and posting on the NARA message board: 
http://boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=nara

I posted this letter here in order to keep fellow ringers up-to-date on the situation.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Where is Rodney King when we need him ??=D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> How so? More trials on the east coast would be a detriment to the growth of ringsport in north America?
> How so?
> 
> It's interesting the terminology used here. "North America."
> ...


Arggggg ... ARF has nothing to do with the growth of Ring in Canada or North America Ted. *You do!!* That is the bottom of it. You need 3 members in good standing to have a club according to CRA bylaws. You listen too much to the negator JC and his spew of grievances (real or imagined) from 20+ years ago. Just train your dog Ted and don't let the negators get to you! I know who you are working with and there is no excuse for you guys and gal not to have a club, so do it. I have your back over here and will help out any way I can. 

Plus the SCC in France that oversees French Ring there is one organization, but they oversee French Ring everywhere in France so I guess they are a monopoly too? btw The SCC would never ever ever let a 2nd organization oversee any FR in France. So why would it be different in any other country? 

As for having more trials because of ARF, that is BS. If the three founders of ARF didn't decide to start the new organization, guess what? It'd still be a NARA Trial!! Where are there more trials? Really??? 

While I have no issue with a new organization in principle, it has to be done right and in conjunction with the existing organization and with no animosity or malice. Not snuck through the back door when people are not looking. 

What I saw from my attendance at the Empire Ringsport Trial in NY is that NARA members have a very strong negative outlook on the new organization. The mindset is that it was not done in a palatable way. I also thought it was quite interesting to see that the 3 people listed on the ARF www as founders were on last years NARA BOD. It looks like a duck, walks like a duck ... 

Seeing the lay of the land for myself in NY 2 weekends ago while listening to countless NARA members express how ARF came into existence. I can't support ARF with a clear conscience. Which is to bad as I really wanted to go to this weekend's trial and compete, which now would be for me a mock trial any ways, sad to say. 

That being said I wish ARF and NARA well and hope that they will work out their differences for the best interests of the sport and for the dogs. But they are a long way apart from what I see. If the ARF founders would've founded their organization *working* in conjunction with the current in place organization of 22 years (NARA) instead of railroading it through the back door with one French Judge (International Liason) while they thought no one would notice, maybe things would've been different.


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## Richard Rutt (May 14, 2009)

Hello Geoff, I have never met you, but although I'm sure you are probably a very nice person. you are incorrect in many of your statements and perceptions. The real problem is the amount of Myths and misperceptions that many people have, or the other option might be that some people actually know the truth and intentionally mislead others, I'll let you be the judge of that! 



> Plus the SCC in France that oversees French Ring there is one organization, but they oversee French Ring everywhere in France so I guess they are a monopoly too? btw The SCC would never ever ever let a 2nd organization oversee any FR in France. So why would it be different in any other country?


The SCC is a breed registry, Ring is OVERSEEN by the GTR, the GTR reports to the CUN-CBG, and French LAW ALLOWS for the possibility of a 2nd and multiple federations, if someone wanted to start them,in fact French Law requires them to recognize any legally formed organization. the only reason that there is only 1 federation in France, is that there rules are very well defined from start to finish, unlike the NARA and CRA. these 2 organizations have modified or omitted huge portions of the true rules which has led to a VERY WATERED DOWN, MARGINAL version of the REAL SPORT! in the original post that started this thread it was stated that an ARF trial is little more than a MOCK Trial, by the REAL RULES of ringsport the NARA trial you attended in NY IS and WAS a Mock trial a direct and "AUTHORIZED" translation from the decoy guidebook is 
*[FONT='Times New Roman','serif'][FONT='Times New Roman','serif']level 1 Range of activity: brevet, competitions in echelons 1 and 2, and as an auxiliary of the level 2 Decoy in echelon 3. A Decoy selected in level 1 is not allowed to take part in competitions held abroad or in Regional Championships." meaning 2 level 1 decoys are not allowed to officiate in Ring 3 as was the case in the NY trial while 2 or 3 level 2 decoys were in attendence, and this happens frequently in NARA, Simply it is not Allowed in Fench Ring![/font][/font]*


> As for having more trials because of ARF, that is BS. If the three founders of ARF didn't decide to start the new organization, guess what? It'd still be a NARA Trial!! Where are there more trials? Really???


ARF will have 2 clubs in the Boston area, 2 clubs in the Philadelphia area, 1 in Wash D.C.before the end of this year that's only in the NorthEast, and everyone of these clubs are new clubs. That's 5 more oportunities to trial your dog. If you choose not to support any opportunity to compete in French Ring because of the personalities involved, that is your choice, and that is why YOU will have less trials to attend.
ARF has attempted to work with NARA AND the CRA, but niether organization has made any effort to cooperate, all you have to do is look at the response of these 2 organization to see that they have no intentions of supporting Ringsport if it doesn't fit into thier modified vision of the sport, we prefer to be more traditional in our approach and follow as closely as possible a system that has worked for over 100 years and Does actually attempt to improve the dogs in the Sport!
We have no problem if NARA and CRA don't recognize ARF scores for thier respective championships, etc. However when these 2 Organizations state they will not recognize TITLES, nor will they allow people to enter scores in thier scorebooks, NARA and CRA Violate the Rules

a dog is only allowed 1 scorebook and ALL TRIALS (Ring, Mondio, RCI, Schutzund,Campagne, etc) must be entered in that book. the following is a direct translation of the inside cover of the scorebook
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']


> [/font]
> [FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']This workbook is reserved for pure-bred working dogs, registered in the LOF. It is a piece of identification and is officially controlled. It follows the dog just as the pedigree does, with each change of owner. It cannot be part of a separate transaction.[/font]
> [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']The change of owner must be declared to the SCC. Any erasures or falsifications could lead to the disqualification of the owner of the dog.[/font]
> [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']With the registration of a dog for a trial, the registration number of the work book must be presented at the time of registration.[/font]
> ...


[/font] 
and Again acording to the "Official French Rules" any dog with the required qualifying scores may be be presented at the next level. in Fact if a dog has 1 Mondio 2 and one RCI 2 that dog may be presented in French Ring 3 anywhere in the WORLD except for NARA or the CRA!! there is your division of the sport and your detriment to the growth of it, Not ARF or not a 2nd or 3rd organiztion.IN fact THE IDEA FOR A SECOND ASSOCIATION IN THE U.S. CAME FROM FRANCE ORIGINALLY! The reason Ring and many other dog sportS fail to grow in the U.S. is Exactly the situation we have right now. 
PEOPLE DON'T TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN EVERYTHING THEY CAN ABOUT THE SPORT AND MYTHS AND MISPERCEPTIONS BECOME THE NORM AND THE ACTUAL SPORT AND THE DOGS BECOME SECONDARY TO PEOPLE AND PERSONALITIES. iF YOU ARE A SUPPORTER OF FRENCH RING YOU WOULD COMPETE AS OFTEN AS YOU CAN ANYWHERE YOU CAN, AND THE TRUTH IS THE ONLY 2 ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO LIMIT THAT, ARE NARA AND THE CRA. Everyone is welcome to compete, and attend ARF Trials and events, and ALL Scorebooks and TiTles will be recognized , 
PER THE REAL RULES OF FRENCH RINGSPORT!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So what you are saying is that with the title MR1, I could not go to a FR trial and trial at FR2, according to NARA ???


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks for the rebuttal Richard I appreciate hearing the other point of view. It still doesn't change how your organization came into existence. Which was without working with the current organization for better or worse. That in itself created a huge division right from the get go. 

Talking about rules at this point is just semantics without the 2 organizations working together.

I understood that Robert attended the NY Trial as a spectator. I was really hoping to meet him as his videos on youtube were some of the inspirations for me to train French Ring in the first place. 

I really do hope that your organization (ARF) and NARA can work things out for the betterment of the sport in the long term. 

I sincerely wish you and your team all the best in succeeding with that goal.


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> Arggggg ... ARF has nothing to do with the growth of Ring in Canada or North America Ted. *You do!!* That is the bottom of it. You need 3 members in good standing to have a club according to CRA bylaws. You listen too much to the negator JC and his spew of grievances (real or imagined) from 20+ years ago. Just train your dog Ted and don't let the negators get to you! I know who you are working with and there is no excuse for you guys and gal not to have a club, so do it. I have your back over here and will help out any way I can.
> 
> Plus the SCC in France that oversees French Ring there is one organization, but they oversee French Ring everywhere in France so I guess they are a monopoly too? btw The SCC would never ever ever let a 2nd organization oversee any FR in France. So why would it be different in any other country?
> 
> ...


Please explain how ARF will be a detriment to Ringsport in North America?
No one from the CRA or Nara will answer this for me.

I find it hard to believe that having another option will make ring smaller. 
Considering that I have talked to several people currently part of the CRA, who are for another organization, I think saying the ARF will be a detriment is a load of crap. 

My largest problem would be with the lack of interest the CRA has been taking to help things on the east coast. Considering that the CRA only has a hand full of clubs in the 2nd biggest country in the world, I think they need to step up to the plate and show that they really give a crap about ring and seeing it grow.

I don't want anything to do with the CRA, I really don't think they are capable of growing the sport to what it should be, could be, or was. This is why I choose not to be apart of the CRA. Not because of stuff that went down 20 years ago that JC tells me about.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So what you are saying is that with the title MR1, I could not go to a FR trial and trial at FR2, according to NARA ???


I'm not sure what he is saying, but if you have an MRI leg and an FRI leg you can go to a NARA trial and trial at FRII. Or if you had two MRI legs you could go compete at a NARA trial in FRII.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Cool, thanks !


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Stephanie O'Brien said:


> Ted, all your points and questions are valid concerns. You may get the answers to the questions you are asking by visiting and posting on the NARA message board:
> http://boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=nara
> 
> I posted this letter here in order to keep fellow ringers up-to-date on the situation.



What a load of crap, after seeing your poste, I registered on the NARA board, and posted my views.

Then I wake up this morning and notice that my post had been deleted.

What a joke Nara is, they can't even answer my questions about how the ARF will be a detriment to Ring in North America, instead they delete my questions on the board. Lovely!

You guys must be too busy helping ring grow in North America right Nara?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> My largest problem would be with the lack of interest the CRA has been taking to help things on the east coast. Considering that the CRA only has a hand full of clubs in the 2nd biggest country in the world, I think they need to step up to the plate and show that they really give a crap about ring and seeing it grow.
> 
> I don't want anything to do with the CRA, I really don't think they are capable of growing the sport to what it should be, could be, or was. This is why I choose not to be apart of the CRA. Not because of stuff that went down 20 years ago that JC tells me about.


Ha ha! So what do you want? Everybody to come to Halifax and hold your hand? Been trying to get you and the other East CRA ringers together time and time again, been trying to help you all sorts of other ways as well, taking the time to take pictures with explanations, keeping you in the loop and writing out detailed descriptions of exercises. 

Like I said it isn't about CRA it is about YOU!!! If you spent less time moaning and groaning about how hard done by you are by CRA or NARA and just training your dog to the best of your abilities you might get somewhere. That I could have respect for, the rest I don't. Sorry.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Ted - I can't speak for the NARA board moderators, but I saw your post yesterday and immediately noticed that you registered as "TedShred." If you read the instructions at the top of the page, they clearly say, "_*All users must register using their real name. First and last names are required. Posts and user registrations made without first & last name will be deleted*."_

Maybe this is the reason your post was deleted?


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> What a load of crap, after seeing your poste, I registered on the NARA board, and posted my views.
> 
> Then I wake up this morning and notice that my post had been deleted.
> 
> ...


Your post was deleted because you did not follow the rules of using your First and Last name (Ted Shred) LOL


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Cool, thanks !


This really is cool --
I wanted to do French Ringsport in the worst way with my young malinois Rogue, but because of the weirdness of the local groups I could not seem to pull together a FR trial -- but a mondioring trial is a snap.
Mondio people are pretty much always ready to party -- regardless of there personal relations.
Now I can trial my young dog in Mondio this summer as a MR1 and trial him this fall for his 2nd FR1 or possibly FR2 -- assuming we pass :-&


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## Stephanie O'Brien (Sep 11, 2007)

C'mon over Lisa!


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> Ha ha! So what do you want? Everybody to come to Halifax and hold your hand? Been trying to get you and the other East CRA ringers together time and time again, been trying to help you all sorts of other ways as well, taking the time to take pictures with explanations, keeping you in the loop and writing out detailed descriptions of exercises.
> 
> Like I said it isn't about CRA it is about YOU!!! If you spent less time moaning and groaning about how hard done by you are by CRA or NARA and just training your dog to the best of your abilities you might get somewhere. That I could have respect for, the rest I don't. Sorry.


You know Geoff, I am guilty of the bull shit drama that I say I am so sick of. That's my fault. My bad.
Your right on many levels.... that doesnt mean I have to be in love with the cra or the way it runs, but bitching and moaning will do nothing to fix it at this point. 

Anyways, Shannon has been very nice to offer help, Kadi as well, and as always Geoff. Thanks guys. 
I'm still not sure what's going to happen with our members, but the shitty attitude will not help get a club going, I guess I need to be told that more often hahaha.

Once again, sorry, I'm having a horrible day. Off to train my dogs, a nice bite in the ass from my Mal should get my attitude in a better place.


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> You know Geoff, I am guilty of the bull shit drama that I say I am so sick of. That's my fault. My bad.


Ted,

I think there is a great deal of truth in this statement for everyone to consider. Especially myself. I am also guilty as well. I think that the time to be angry, mad, irritated or hurt is over. And it is time to build ring because of our love for ring.

Kudos to you Ted for recognising the situation and for the dedication to move forward.

Good luck with ring in the maritimes, I hope it gets a firm foothold! Any support the ERA can offer, just let us know.

Tamara McIntosh


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