# Buying a new handgun



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok so I'm starting to look into buying my husband his first handgun. I need some suggestions though. He can shoot already (marksmanship badge) but I don't think he's shot a handgun before, just military weapons and I doubt that included the Beretta. I find the beretta to be a piece of shit though and wouldn't pay for one. 
I'd like it to be a surprise...hence the buying one without him actually picking it out. He likes my handgun and the feel of it, and it's about the size and weight of a Colt Commander. I'm not going to let him buy a piece of shit like my ex did with the S&W SIGMA - I spent more time cutting the trigger pull down on that thing to make it reasonable than the gun was worth, what a piece of crap, but it shot decently after you take about 10 lbs off the trigger pull (which still left you with about 8 lbs of pull).

What I have in mind:
Colt 1911 or Commander - debatable, I think a 9mm would be more suitable, I could get a kit for it and make it a 9mm...but why?!
Glock? I don't know about this, Glocks are generally too fat for my hands, and his hands aren't any bigger than mine, and the compact or sub-compacts are just...eh.
Springfield XD - I shot one in .40 S&W, it was nice and well balanced, it also shot really well. 

I know we have our fair share of the manly-men gun nuts on here, so suggestions are welcome.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Ok so I'm starting to look into buying my husband his first handgun. I need some suggestions though. He can shoot already (marksmanship badge) but I don't think he's shot a handgun before, just military weapons and I doubt that included the Beretta. I find the beretta to be a piece of shit though and wouldn't pay for one.
> I'd like it to be a surprise...hence the buying one without him actually picking it out. He likes my handgun and the feel of it, and it's about the size and weight of a Colt Commander. I'm not going to let him buy a piece of shit like my ex did with the S&W SIGMA - I spent more time cutting the trigger pull down on that thing to make it reasonable than the gun was worth, what a piece of crap, but it shot decently after you take about 10 lbs off the trigger pull (which still left you with about 8 lbs of pull).
> 
> What I have in mind:
> ...


My current service weapon is a Gen 3 , Glock 22 , .40 cal . I love it . Very accurate , easy to shot and very reliable . I've put thousands of rounds thru it and can only remember it malfunction during a flashlight qualification and I'm sure it was my fault . I still qualified easily , 1 round short of perfect and just out . 

Those guns are getting old so the range staff tested several guns . Gen 4 Glocks , S & W , Berrettas , etc. all in 9mm , .40 and 45 cal. . It came down to the Glock and Smith & Wesson M&P in 40 and 9mm . They did balistic tests and found the 9mm to be easier to shot and very compariable in damage to the .40 . 

They opened it up for the whole department to shot the guns and out of 500 officers about 150 showed up shot all the guns and the vast majority choose the 9mm in both Glock and S&W . 

We are now going to transition to the new guns and have our choice between the Generation 4 Glock models 17 and 19 (both 9mm) and the S &W M&P 9mm . Both guns have grips that you can change the grip size on (small , med. , large) . I really liked the S&W felt good and the trigger pull was nice but very differnt then what I'm use to with the Glocks . I had heard many officers felt the gun was more accurate then the Glocks . I was a VERY tough descision for me but I went with the Glock 17 . If the S&W would have had a grip like the Glock I would have gladly choose it and put in the work learn the gun's different trigger pull style . The Smith's grip felt good but I didn't feel I had the same control once my hand got sweaty . 

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57751_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

http://www.glockworld.com/item/186004_Glock_Hand_Guns_Pistols_Glock_PG1750703_Model_G4_.aspx


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

It's all about fit so select what feels like a natural extension of his grip (ok this came out wrong but you know what I mean). Good shooters can shoot accurately with a variety of designs, average shooters need all the help possible and I find the "fit" to be extremely important. Caliber selection for quick (accurate) follow up shots comes second. My personal fav handguns,

1. Steyr GB
2. Sig P228/P229
3. Glock 19
4. Walther P99


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I have carried a beretta, glock and now have a Springfield XD subcompact that I use for concealed carry some, and a kel tech .32, quite a few .45s, sig and 1911.

If he needs it for concealed carry fulltime, find something that is reliable and small. For full time concealed carry I use a Kel tech .32. I have never been a fan of kel tech. Read some good reviews on the .32 and 380 and my brother had one. Out of the box it sucked. Once I sent it back to the factory to get the extraction problem cleared, I have had no trouble with it for 500 rounds or so. Not one feed jam yet. I run 10 or so rounds through it without cleaning it when i go to the range. I like it because I can put it in my pocket and leave it there all day long, which for me is the battle I have always fought with concealed carry. Summer or winter, it's there. Shorts, flip flops, whatever, it goes fine. Ruger makes one similar, not quite as small I think. Just make sure he shoots it with pocket lint and dirty to see how it works.

I bought the XD because it was a cheap deal from a guy deploying on a contract. I kept it because it is reliable and accurate for having a short barrel. threw some nice sights on it, extended magazine, and I couldn't be happier.

If I had to buy a pistol right now, I would buy a Glock. I have only had a few feed jams with multiple glocks and lots of rounds. Usually when they are new within the first 200 or so rounds. After broken in and cleaned a few times I have never had a feed jam. That would be my pick if my gf or wife was buying me a gun. I will say this though. Let him pick. Guns are personal. Nice idea for a good practical gift though.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Steyr. Having just bought a Steyr rifle I can tell you they are quality guns. Shits all over Howa, Remmington, Tikka, Sako etc. 
Got to play with a couple of handguns the other day incl Glocks and Steyr and the Steyr felt alot better quality.
But im sure there are others here with a alot better knowedge than me to answer it.


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## kerry engels (Nov 7, 2010)

Faisal Khan said:


> It's all about fit so select what feels like a natural extension of his grip (ok this came out wrong but you know what I mean). Good shooters can shoot accurately with a variety of designs, average shooters need all the help possible and I find the "fit" to be extremely important. Caliber selection for quick (accurate) follow up shots comes second. My personal fav handguns,
> 
> 1. Steyr GB
> 2. Sig P228/P229
> ...


 



This, to me it's about fit and reliability, stopping power is next. I love my Sig 229.


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## eric squires (Oct 16, 2008)

I have a Glock 19 that is my duty gun. I used to carry a .40 cal XD. I also have a 1911. I like the Glock best to carry and shoot. Get the Nite sights on what ever you buy.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Perfect, Gift, great jesture, however, take him to the shop and let him pick it, its a feel that only the operator can make. 

Make an afternoon out of it, go look at guns, shoot a few and then buy him one HE PICKS.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Personally, I like a Glock of many models, one of the few guns that can be thrown around, beat up, covered in sand and fire without question. Whatever the requirement of this weapon to be will be the decisionmaker...


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Jody Butler said:


> Perfect, Gift, great jesture, however, take him to the shop and let him pick it, its a feel that only the operator can make.
> 
> Make an afternoon out of it, go look at guns, shoot a few and then buy him one HE PICKS.


I agree. Especially if its his first one. Once he owns a couple you can kind of go off of what you know he likes and surprise him with one.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jody Butler said:


> Perfect, Gift, great jesture, however, take him to the shop and let him pick it, its a feel that only the operator can make.
> 
> Make an afternoon out of it, go look at guns, shoot a few and then buy him one HE PICKS.


 Hafta agree there. I own the Glock and several other guns. Personally, I like real steel. Old school I guess.

For mid size concealed carry with decent fire power there is the Bersa. Not the top of the line of course but dependable. You can't beat a Sig but they're too blocky even for me and I have big hands. Love my Combat Elites.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Glock or Sig are the only two I would pick, both are superior side arms.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

"What I have in mind:
Colt 1911 or Commander - debatable, I think a 9mm would be more suitable, I could get a kit for it and make it a 9mm...but why?!"

you can, but the factory made 9mm or other than .45 calibers are the way to go IMO. you can get 9mm top end setups to convert a 45acp m1911 to a 9mm/38super or 40 cal.generally you would want to get a dedicated other caliber slide that has been made with a breech face sized correctly to the other caliber you will be shooting. to convert a standard .45 acp frame you can change out your ejector. this is not rocket science, but it has been my experience that these projects often require a significant amount of tweaking to run right. you will also have to resight the pistol and may or may not have to use different sights to get it POA=POI. not exactly a project for someone who doesn't want to work on thier gun for a few hours get it reliable.

most major 1911 makers now offer out of the box 9mm or other caliber setups that are cheaper than that what you'd spend converting a new pistol and are (for the most part) already dialed in and ready to shoot right away. 

suprises are awesome and its cool what you're doing for the husband, but wouldn't it suck if you bought him an awesome gun that he hated to shoot and/or could not shoot as well as another one? what if you spent like a 1000 beans on a badass new HK only to find it dont fit your hubbys hand as well as a 600 XD?

my advice, for what its worth, would be to take your husband to range with rental guns, let him rent whatever he wants. let him try a few different pistols of comprable make and design and buy him what he shoots the best and feels most comfortable with. handguns are like preferences for toothpaste and haircuts...not everything works well for everybody and its usually just a matter of personal preference.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Hafta agree there. I own the Glock and several other guns. Personally, I like real steel. Old school I guess.
> 
> For mid size concealed carry with decent fire power there is the Bersa. Not the top of the line of course but dependable. You can't beat a Sig but they're too blocky even for me and I have big hands. Love my Combat Elites.


Talking about steel this was my duty weapon when I first started . Smith 686 .357 . Mine was a 6 shooter though .

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57912_757798_757797_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Handsome gun but I shot like **** with that thing . When I went to the Glock 22 it was like night and day .


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nice gun. I have a model 19 that I love but my first carry gun was a Smith 645 .45 semi-auto. Hated it so I went right to the Colt when everyone else was going to the Glock. I believe I'm only one of two guys in the dept that now carries the Colt. The newbies have no idea what it is.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> I believe I'm only one of two guys in the dept that now carries the Colt. The newbies have no idea what it is.


Thats a sad, sad thing. Can't go wrong with a 1911. Springfield makes the EMP 1911 in 9mm, and its one of the nicest shooting pistols I've ever experienced. Berreta's are nice, I've never had any issues, and Springfield's XD's are my personal favorites. Everyone I've ever had shoot mine end up buying one within a few weeks...including my recon buddy in the Corps currently on his 4th tour. He has two.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Do you reload? That is a big question. If you do it will make a difference on what you buy for caliber. Do you want a pistol or a revolver? Do you want a CCW? 
I wouldn't own a Glock if you gave it to me. They are plastic and they JAM! Pistol wise you cant beat a Kimber 1911. Revolvers I would look at a colt python or a S&W.
I would also take him to pick it out. Different strokes for different folks


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Ive always considered Kimbers to be overpriced. I recently asked Terry Tussy who he thought makes the best 1911 today, and he said without question, Colt.


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## brad hough (Sep 18, 2010)

Like most of the responses, I like different guns for different reasons. However, If I could choose only one, it would be a Glock without even thinking twice. It's hard to beat the reliability and long life. They aren't all that great to look at, but that is of little concern to me. I also like that they have no external safty to manipulate under stress. If you practice safe use and storage, the safty is not needed in my opinion.

If you decide on a Glock, I would suggest either a 9mm or .45. My dept carried the .40 for several years and they were good guns. The problem that arose was when the guns got older. The frames of our .40's were nearly identical to the 9mm, not sure if the new generations are the same. Because the .40 creates so much more pressure than the 9mm, we started having guns break. I will qualify that by noting that the problem didnt arrise for quite sometime, it was after several years and thousands of rounds had been fired through the weapon. The other thing about the .40 cal round in a 9mm frame, is there is a noticible increase in recoil. The glock .40 tends to be a fairly sharp gun to shoot. The recoil isn't insane, but shooting it next to a Glock 9mm will make it very obvious. Many people tend to be much more accurate with the 9mm and find shooting it more enjoyable.

That being said, we switched to Glock .45's this past year. I was concerned that the recoil would be much stronger and a pain to shoot. I was very wrong, the gun is a beauty and now my personal favorite. The recoil has more of a thump then the quick snap of the .40 cal. The frame is on the larger side which helps to control this, but makes it difficult to conceal well. We have several small women on the dept and they seem to handle the weapon well, so I wouldn't be overly concerned with hand size.

I also carry a Glock 26 compact 9mm off duty. I'm vary happy with the gun and it fits my needs perfectly. It has a decent amout of fire power, good size to conceil and the reliability of Glock.

Just my opinion, good luck.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

FNH USA makes some nice guns
http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF062&gid=FNG001


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Glocks have got to be the most over rated peice of plastic in the world. They are junk! My wife Jams them up constantly and I have heard of the same problem with lots of people. I had a STI Ranger it was a really nice gun. I just got tired of picking up the brass. Got a revolver and it is way more reliable and easier to handle than any pistol.


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## Bill Jester (Dec 30, 2010)

The agency i work with uses Glock 19. They are a good gun for both men and women to manipulate. My personal CCW is a Colt Commander. Easy for even those with smaller hands to handle, easy to conceal because the magazine is single stacked, and great stopping power with the .45cal. Every man should own a 1911 and since it's his first gun you can't go wrong. It's a classic for a reason.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Bill Jester said:


> The agency i work with uses Glock 19. They are a good gun for both men and women to manipulate. My personal CCW is a Colt Commander. Easy for even those with smaller hands to handle, easy to conceal because the magazine is single stacked, and great stopping power with the .45cal. Every man should own a 1911 and since it's his first gun you can't go wrong. It's a classic for a reason.


That was kind of my thought. I disregarded the Glock nearly immediately because he likes my little handgun, which is all steel and fits your hand like a Commander - but it's in 9mm. He likes the look of it since it's so similar, but it's no expensive pistol. It's a Star BM. It shoots well, doesn't jam on me, and is accurate as hell.
The problem with those is, they are getting harder to get parts for. I'm searching online for a new firing pin for my grandfather for one of his right now. So the closest thing that I'd actually buy would be the Colt 1911/Commander.

Prior to it, I owned a Glock 21 - .45 ACP. It's not too much for me to handle accurately, however, the grips on that thing were exceedingly large for small hands. It certainly wasn't comfortable for me and too big and bulky.

I'd like for him to go pick something out himself really and I could just pay for it but as far as I know, we don't have any ranges he can test anything out anyway, so as long as it fits his hand comfortably it won't matter because he won't be able to test anything out. Not only that, but he doesn't meet residency requirements to buy a gun in CO - he's from California. I barely meet the requirements since I"m an AZ resident, but can get CO ID now - so technically I have to buy it for myself even though it's intended for him.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't know what access you have but there is a gun range here where you can try out just about any handgun imaginable for the cost of a box of shells and a very slight fee. 
He needs to find out what's best for him.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

We don't even have a range we can use here Bob - they closed one because someone shot someone else, and I don't know where the PD is using - but we don't have anywhere you can "rent" a gun to try out unless you have a friend with one.

Maybe in Denver? Idk.

How do you determine what is "for you" when you've never shot a handgun before? The M16 is for "anyone" it's just universal like that, that's what he's proficient with. I know what fits me and doesn't because I've been shooting since I was little and I'm a lefty so it's a bit of a different comfort range for me since most are right handed. I figured about the most universal handgun would be the 1911/Commander. It can fit a smaller hand, like he and I have, and has a good weight - it's similar to my own handgun which I already know he likes and fits him. 

It's like shoes, if you've never worn shoes in your life, how can you tell the ones you bought will be comfortable long term vs when you tried them on?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

These rentals are in house only of course. :lol: 
Not like you can rent a gun and go cruzin! Most of those guys use...errr...borrowed guns. 8-[


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Does he have a sidearm now?

not gun nut here, but the XD's are a nice gun for an average gun owner...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If he likes yours you can hardly go wrong with that. 
Hard to go wrong with a good 1911 either. 
My son has the .22 conversion kit for his 1911 just to save money at the range. He competes with .45 and says the conversion actually helped his shooting because he's gotten away from the slight recoil anticipation he had with the .45.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Sorry Daniel but I will disagree. I have had several Glocks and haven't had an issue with any. The Walther P22, a .22 caliber pistol, is without question the pits or atleast the one I HAD.[-X

If the fit and function aren't for your hand or skill level, the safe bet is always a cylinder gun like the S&W .38 Airweight. My newest model is so light you forget you have it on!!!


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> We don't even have a range we can use here Bob - they closed one because someone shot someone else, and I don't know where the PD is using - but we don't have anywhere you can "rent" a gun to try out unless you have a friend with one.
> 
> Maybe in Denver? Idk.
> 
> ...


I strongly recommend a romantic weekend somewhere that has a gunshop with a range . You have to shoot alot of guns to know what you like . 

It's a lot like a woman . The first gun you shoot is exciting you can't imagine other guns being any better then that . Until you actually start shooting other guns . You know it once you start hitting bullseyes more consistantly . 

You get him a gun he will probably enjoy it . Until one day he cheets with someone else's gun that's better . His gun is just never going to be the same .


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

For the price, I really like the XDs.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Does he have a sidearm now?
> 
> not gun nut here, but the XD's are a nice gun for an average gun owner...


Nope, he's never owned a gun at all, and I'm pretty sure the only time he's shot is to qualify for the military. That's my only concern with an actual 1911 is the recoil - it's not a great "first" gun to learn to shoot on. 
That's why I put the XD on the list. I can get one in 9mm or .40 S&W - which isn't the recoil of the .45 ACP and just as effective. But he's not a fan of plastic already (a man after my own heart) even though I think for plastic, the XD is a nice pistol and I would personally own one.

I know my grandfather started me out on a 22 pistol, then to a 38 special (which I didn't like at all) then to a 9mm and then I was allowed to shoot whatever I wanted. But, I don't own an array of guns in different calibers, so he's kind of going to have a slight surprise with recoil for the first time as I figured we'd use my beat up handgun to learn on and then he can have his new toy. I won't cry if he drops my 9mm or scratches it up, it's already beat to hell from being carried - I may break down and cry if he scratches a brand new 1911 out of the box though. 

I know the kind of places you're thinking of Bob, I've never seen one around here, I did see one in California when I was there. Those places scare the hell out of me, people that have never shot a gun before can pay to play with one without supervision from someone who knows what they're doing? **shudder**


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jim Nash said:


> I strongly recommend a romantic weekend somewhere that has a gunshop with a range . You have to shoot alot of guns to know what you like .
> 
> It's a lot like a woman . The first gun you shoot is exciting you can't imagine other guns being any better then that . Until you actually start shooting other guns . You know it once you start hitting bullseyes more consistantly .
> 
> You get him a gun he will probably enjoy it . Until one day he cheets with someone else's gun that's better . His gun is just never going to be the same .


Jim you're too much and I agree...where did that come from? LOL
HIS gun is or should fit HIM. A gift certificate is best, trying many out is as Jim says is the BEST way to go!!!!!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh dear God I missed that post...LOL! 

I can't send him off with a gift certificate. I actually have to buy it because of residency issues. In CO you have to be a resident to buy a gun from a store - he's a California resident. I'm an AZ resident but I've been here long enough to qualify for CO residency. He doesn't have orders bringing him here so he doesn't qualify for the residency exemption. I do.

That and if he came home with a Jennings I might consider divorce.  j/k...or am I?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Find someone with an FFL in his state!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Find someone with an FFL in his state!


Ever been to California? It is not easy to obtain a gun in that state, and lots of regulations. He doesn't live there either - he's stationed in Germany (but is deployed to Afghanistan right now) and won't be going to California when he gets back, we're going to be moving again. 

Then the residency issues start all over wherever they send us. It is easier to buy a gun in your home state and have the military ship it for you, than it is to go around dealing with the new residency and gun buying laws per state.

ETA: California is not one of those "easier" states - they're like NY with the laws on what you can and cannot buy.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Sounds like the Springfield EMP is pretty close to what you're after.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

yeah...
get on the atf STRAW list...[-X[-X


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> yeah...
> get on the atf STRAW list...[-X[-X


Yeah, that's why I have to buy it "for me" and it stays in my posession - he can legally do whatever he wants with it but it legally belongs to me...
So it's for him, but stays in my posession.  Just like my other one, he can take it out, go shoot it, and there's no problem - but if he does something stupid with it, it's my ass.


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

I am actually in the market as well. I was planning on getting out to the shop this morning, and then this pesky job got in the way.

I think I have my sights (bad joke, I know) on an FNX-9

seems like the real popular model is a SIG. At the end of the day, it's what pistol you shoot best and are most comfortable/confident with.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Here's what I want for a CCW (if I could get a permit)
http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php
The feds cleared me for a full auto tag but the state of Colorado
wouldn't clear me for a 22 because of a 35 year old assault arrest where the charges were dropped? I guess I could clear up the old arrest but it just isn't worth the bother.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I like that Thomas. I used to have a Mossberg 500  It was fun but not so great for bird hunting, you had to pick the pellets out.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh and for straw purchases (because you got my interest Joby)



> Where a person purchases a firearm
> with the intent of making a gift of the
> firearm to another person, the person
> making the purchase is indeed the true
> ...


^ From the ATF website. As long as I use my own money (yep) and fill out the forms for me - I'm the true purchaser.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I like that Thomas. I used to have a Mossberg 500  It was fun but not so great for bird hunting, you had to pick the pellets out.


Ashley,

I'm not planning on eating anything I shoot, so I'm not worried about picking out pellets 
I was over at the park at 11AM and it's pretty much snow packed.
We'll see if anyone shows up tomorrow.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Are you going to? It looks like it's melting off over on this side of town, but I swear it's always warmer at my house than it is over there.
As long as it's not a slushy mess I'll be there in the morning.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Are you going to? It looks like it's melting off over on this side of town, but I swear it's always warmer at my house than it is over there.
> As long as it's not a slushy mess I'll be there in the morning.


It's only 10 minutes away from my house, so even if no one else shows up, I can always do something on my own.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> You can't beat a Sig but they're too blocky even for me and I have big hands. Love my Combat Elites.


 
Did you try holding the new 226 or 229 “E2”? The E2 fits most people a lot better. I just started learning to shoot last year the regular Sig did not fit all to well but I found the E2 to be much nicer.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> It's only 10 minutes away from my house, so even if no one else shows up, I can always do something on my own.


Yeah, lucky. It's only about 20 miles round trip for me but I hate to drive out and nobody be there.


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## Shawn Reed (Nov 9, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Ok so I'm starting to look into buying my husband his first handgun. I need some suggestions though. He can shoot already (marksmanship badge) but I don't think he's shot a handgun before, just military weapons and I doubt that included the Beretta. I find the beretta to be a piece of shit though and wouldn't pay for one.
> I'd like it to be a surprise...hence the buying one without him actually picking it out. He likes my handgun and the feel of it, and it's about the size and weight of a Colt Commander. I'm not going to let him buy a piece of shit like my ex did with the S&W SIGMA - I spent more time cutting the trigger pull down on that thing to make it reasonable than the gun was worth, what a piece of crap, but it shot decently after you take about 10 lbs off the trigger pull (which still left you with about 8 lbs of pull).
> 
> What I have in mind:
> ...


I'd stay clear of the Glock if your willing to spend more money. Glocks are not bad th price but you can get a WAY better gun for 3-4 hundred more. I had a Glock 23 and gave it to my dad. I have a sig saur p-220, which I had before the Glock. It's kinda like driving a beamer and then getting an oldsmobile cutlass. I was disappointed in the Glock when comparing it to my Sig or other Brands that my friends owned. I don't like that safety action crap or whatever it's called. I have shot at least 10 different brands and models that were more of a pleasure to shoot then the Glock. 

My buddy has a Colt 1911. I really like that gun. A little on the heavy side but VERY accurate. Springfields are nice. Another buddy has a Taurus that I liked too. My one friend collects Kimber 1911's. They're nice guns as well.


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## Shawn Reed (Nov 9, 2010)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Glocks have got to be the most over rated peice of plastic in the world. They are junk! My wife Jams them up constantly and I have heard of the same problem with lots of people.


Amen. 

They are definitely overrated but what do you expect for $500 bucks. You get what you pay for most of the time with guns.

I often wonder why so many police municipalities use them. Is it b/c they're light? They have a deal and get them cheaper? I think it's b/c of the safety action thing so they can be drawn and shot right away. Although you could get a double action gun and have that hair trigger after the first shot granted that you don't cock it first. I think they're user friendly in the heat of the moment and that's why police departments get them. The trigger pull sucks IMO. Mine never jammed, I just didn't like the feel, the factory sights, trigger pull and that safety action thing and for $500 I wasn't about to put money into a gunsmith for it. So I gave it to my dad for free LOL.

Also, I saw someone compare Glocks and Sigs as being on the same level. I would completely disagree having owned both. Sig Saur is far superior to the Glock on just about every level.


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## Shawn Reed (Nov 9, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> I don't know what access you have but there is a gun range here where you can try out just about any handgun imaginable for the cost of a box of shells and a very slight fee.
> He needs to find out what's best for him.


My local gun store has an indoor range and used to offer that. They don't anymore, however. Last year a guy rented a gun and went into the range and blew his brains out.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

At least he didn't take anyone else out with him


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

I shoot the a .45 XD compact. LOVE IT!! 

BUT our PD bought 175 for the department and they are keeping track of the fail rate and it is close to 25%; almost all of the female officers and quite a few of the male. It has to do with the spring being tight and people limp wristing it. Not the guns fault, but handler error still matters though. They are retuning them all to Springfield.

Rob carries a Glock (don't know which one...) both on and off duty as well as SWAT. He had the trigger modified (and said that he has on all his Glocks) but he says other than that, best gun ever.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Shawn Reed said:


> Amen.
> 
> They are definitely overrated but what do you expect for $500 bucks. You get what you pay for most of the time with guns.
> 
> ...


Our department has over 500 police officers and they have been using Glocks for about 20 years now . We've used the Glock 22 since I've been here . We use them because they are , accurate and VERY reliable . They also easy to handle for males and females , small hands or large . 

We have had very few complaints about the Glock from the officers on the street or the full time range staff that maintains them . From my understanding over 70% of the Officers in the department are sticking with the Glock when given the choice between the Smith & Wesson . For sure it's mainly because they are familar with those guns and change is tough for some , but it also says something about the high level of satisfaction most have with the gun . 

Ours come with the nightsights . The trigger pull is different but it doesn't matter to me when I'm consistantly hitting what I aim at . I love the gun and have shot better with it then any other gun I've tried . It is all preferance though .


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Jessica Kromer said:


> I shoot the a .45 XD compact. LOVE IT!!
> 
> BUT our PD bought 175 for the department and they are keeping track of the fail rate and it is close to 25%; almost all of the female officers and quite a few of the male. It has to do with the spring being tight and people limp wristing it. Not the guns fault, but handler error still matters though. They are retuning them all to Springfield.
> 
> Rob carries a Glock (don't know which one...) both on and off duty as well as SWAT. He had the trigger modified (and said that he has on all his Glocks) but he says other than that, best gun ever.


 
So… instead of teaching better shooting technique, they are just sending the pistols back? My 110lb wife packs the XD45 compact as well and has never had an issue...


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm a cheap skate. I have a Makarov I bought 10+ years ago.
Cheap and reliable. I doubt if me or the gun could shoot the same groups as some of your guns, but I can put 7 shots center mass at 20 feet, which is all I'll ever need


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Jim Nash said:


> Our department has over 500 police officers and they have been using Glocks for about 20 years now . We've used the Glock 22 since I've been here . We use them because they are , accurate and VERY reliable . They also easy to handle for males and females , small hands or large .
> 
> We have had very few complaints about the Glock from the officers on the street or the full time range staff that maintains them . From my understanding over 70% of the Officers in the department are sticking with the Glock when given the choice between the Smith & Wesson . For sure it's mainly because they are familar with those guns and change is tough for some , but it also says something about the high level of satisfaction most have with the gun .
> 
> Ours come with the nightsights . The trigger pull is different but it doesn't matter to me when I'm consistantly hitting what I aim at . I love the gun and have shot better with it then any other gun I've tried . It is all preferance though .


 
Glock is a fine weapon for the price, but I have personally seen more Glocks fail than any other firearm, be it pistol or rifle. I had one explode right next to me at the range. It was my friends. He was ok, but the pistol was cut clean. From the trigger forward, gone.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I'm a cheap skate. I have a Makarov I bought 10+ years ago.
> Cheap and reliable. I doubt if me or the gun could shoot the same groups as some of your guns, but I can put 7 shots center mass at 20 feet, which is all I'll ever need


That's what I like about the Star BM. Cheap (I didn't pay for mine but they're less than $300) it's accurate, it will shoot any kind of ammo I stick through it except the steel cased crap doesn't feed well, but +P, Ranger, Hydroshocks...all feed and cycle fine. 
If I beat it up, oh well, so what? 
AND, it's a rather attractive looking little thing too. Mines about in the condition of the one in the picture - not beat to shit but not brand new.









Thinking about it, I've only ever bought one rifle in my life, and that was my AR15 - everything else I own has been gifts.
I think the closest thing in size and looks is the Colt 1911/Commander - since Nate's fond of this little thing. mines a pre 1981 model and stamped with the Spanish police thing, so it used to be a service weapon.



 *Star Model BM*
 Caliber: 9mm
 Length: 7.25 inches
 Barrel Length:3.77 inches
 Weight: 2.14 Lbs


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Brian McQuain said:


> Glock is a fine weapon for the price, but I have personally seen more Glocks fail than any other firearm, be it pistol or rifle. I had one explode right next to me at the range. It was my friends. He was ok, but the pistol was cut clean. From the trigger forward, gone.


We've had different experiances for sure . We put alot of rounds through our guns too . I don't know of any other agency in the state that shoots more then us and we are the 2nd largest agency in the state .

Shot ALOT of rounds at Blackwater along side other agancies with all different sorts of guns . I don't know of any of the 5 guys from our department that had a failure of any kind . On top of that we were winning the magority of all the friendly shooting competitions there too . I certainly saw some of the other guns out there malfunction . Seemed to be the .45s most often . 

I've shot a Glock 22 first or 2nd generation and will currently be switching from a Glock 22 generation 3 that I've had for about 4 years . I shoot more then most having to not only qualify in department shoots but K9 and SWAT shoots also . I have had very few malfunctions through those years and don't see too many on the range either . Most malfunctions I've seen have been caused by the shooter and are easliy corrected .


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Brian McQuain said:


> So… instead of teaching better shooting technique, they are just sending the pistols back? My 110lb wife packs the XD45 compact as well and has never had an issue...


Seems like a great idea, huh? :roll:

I'm a little bigger at 125, but never had a failure to feed like they all have had... 

Great gun.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I'm a cheap skate. I have a Makarov I bought 10+ years ago.
> Cheap and reliable. I doubt if me or the gun could shoot the same groups as some of your guns, but I can put 7 shots center mass at 20 feet, which is all I'll ever need


I have a 1913 Luger 9mm, top eject, wood grips (from my granfather that fought in WWI with (for the Germans)), that I still shoot today..the gun is 103 yrs old and shoots good still, is accurate as I need it to be at 25 yrs...

and a very old german 8.57 mauser bolt action (from my grandad) with flip telescope sites that will work well from my elevated postion of 9 feet high in the trailer I live in...

and an xd40

I love the luger and the mauser...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We have 850 or so Troopers, and are issued Glock 33's and 31's in the 357 Sig. Troopers must carry the issues duty weapon. My experiences are like Jims, Glock is a good all around weapon with very few problems. We fire a minimum of semi-annually and just don't have problems with the Glock. I have a personal weapon of the same caliber, along with my Walther PPK. I've always wanted one and have had this one for 20+ years. No kids in the house, so my home defense weapon is a Mossburg 500, loaded 00, 00, slug, slug, slug. 

DFrost


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## James Idi (Apr 19, 2009)

> I find the beretta to be a piece of shit though and wouldn't pay for one.


Went through a service school that required the 92 to be used as the secondary weapon, and our class broke 2 frames, about 6 locking blocks, and numerous springs of various types. I find the 92 to be a P.O.S. as well....

While I carry, compete with, and prefer the full size 1911 platform, IMO, the platform is best suited to dedicated shooters for a variety of reasons that I'll touch on a bit later. For those who would like an all around gun for defense / recreation / competition, I recommend checking out the following:

Glock full size series, SW full size M&P series, Springer full size XD series.

I shoot with guys who run these guns in the USPSA production division and / or the IDPA SSP/ESP divisions, and these guns RUN. During the season we'll burn through anywhere from 1,500 to 2,000 rounds a month in training and competition, which lacks in comparison to the sponsored pro's, but is generally way more ammo than a typical gun owner / cop ever shoots. All of these guns have held up pretty well for the shooters, and will no doubt exceed the demands of a typical gun owner. 

Some strengths: Economical, reliable, accurate enough, high capacity, come in a variety of calibers, "point and press" design requires less conditioning for ease of operation under stress, proven in both LE testing and in competition.

Some weaknesses: Outside of ergonomic factors dependent on the individual, these guns all share the same issue common to every service pistol....crappy triggers. However, due to their popularity in competition, there are smiths who can work on the trigger to lessen the slop associated with these types of guns.

You really can't go wrong with any of the 3, and I would go for the one that is the most comfortable, and can be shot accurately the fastest. Rather than buy one outright, I'd recommend buying a card with like a "your gun here" message or some shit, and than go to a range and let him rent and shoot each type before the purchase.


The 1911 platform is hard to beat for accuracy and reliability potential, and only a fine tuned single action revolver can come close to the trigger potential you can achieve. However, it is a slightly more complex system that requires greater conditioning to use efficiently under stress, and may require fine tuning out of the box for reliability, due to some companies poor quality control.(coughKIMBERcough)

Novice shooters, and shooters unfamiliar with the platform, have a greater chance of causing 1911 specific misfires due to:
- Poor grip resulting in a failure to release the grip safety.
- Failure to release the thumb safety.
- Stoppage due to unintended activation of the thumb safety during recoil

All of these stoppages are caused by the shooter, are 1911 specific, and could be....bad....if they occurred during a defensive encounter. Training / conditioning alleviates this issue, however, many shooters are not that dedicated, and are better served by a "point and press" type of gun such as the 3 above, or a revolver.

No other defensive gun can be accurized and fine tuned like a 1911, and if you have never shot a tuned gun before, I'd recommend going to a USPSA club and checking out some of the 1911's used in single stack, limited, or the open division, to see the potential of the platform. There is no comparison. Whether tuned for defensive purposes, or racing, the 1911 is the platform to beat when you need to shoot accurately and fast.

Lastly, you will hear many folks bitching about a handgun being "too heavy" for concealed carry, however, most of those complaints are from folks who don't know, or forgot, WTF carrying "heavy" shit actually means. As a trooper, your hubby should find the weight of any hand gun insignificant compared to the featherweight M4, let alone even the lightest fighting load / armor combinations worn today by anyone who actually goes in harms way. Full size guns are more reliable, are easier to shoot, and can be concealed in any type of clothing barring a speedo.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> That's what I like about the Star BM. Cheap (I didn't pay for mine but they're less than $300) it's accurate, it will shoot any kind of ammo I stick through it except the steel cased crap doesn't feed well, but +P, Ranger, Hydroshocks...all feed and cycle fine.
> If I beat it up, oh well, so what?
> AND, it's a rather attractive looking little thing too. Mines about in the condition of the one in the picture - not beat to shit but not brand new.
> 
> ...



I had a Star Firestar. Super accurate little gun and wasn't too expensive. Only issue is parts. They tend to break things depending on what day of the week they were built. I also have a Star .380 that is a 3/4 size clone to my 1911. Cool little gun


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

I'd say the majority of handguns at IDPA, steel comps, and IPSC I see are Glocks. During competitions, the .45's in almost all makes and models seem to have the most trouble, and I would say the majority of failure are due to the hand loads they shoot, not the pistol.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

James Idi said:


> Went through a service school that required the 92 to be used as the secondary weapon, and our class broke 2 frames, about 6 locking blocks, and numerous springs of various types. I find the 92 to be a P.O.S. as well....
> 
> While I carry, compete with, and prefer the full size 1911 platform, IMO, the platform is best suited to dedicated shooters for a variety of reasons that I'll touch on a bit later. For those who would like an all around gun for defense / recreation / competition, I recommend checking out the following:
> 
> ...


This is good info.
I've fired my grandfathers national match Colt 1911 (accurized)...it's almost better than getting laid. 

I definitely see the down side to the web safety issue and grip - I kind of remember this the first time I shot one, but that's been a long time. That is something to consider but isn't it kind of an upside? On a learning scale, you learn quick to hold it nice and tight and not get sloppy because it won't fire - I see the downside in the middle of the night under pressure if someone is breaking into the house though.
Thumb safety has never been an issue for me, being a lefty my hand is under it and can't be accidentally tripped with my right thumb - but hubby is right handed so I can see how that could happen, and I wouldn't have ever considered it.

Another thought on the subject. How many guys are going to be ok having their wife bring them into a gun shop to help them pick something out? If we went that route, I don't want it to be embarrassing for him either, but I don't want to send him loose in a gun shop alone to pick something out when he doesn't know the difference in quality. Let's face it, a gun shop dealer is going to sell him whatever and not tell him it's a piece of shit because he wants it off his shelves and/or is getting commission on the sale. They're as bad as used car dealers, if you don't know the difference, they'll sell you a painted piece of dog crap and say it's a gold bar.

I guess I just don't want a repeat of the SIGMA incident. My ex went and picked that out and bought it. I was with him, I told him it was a piece of shit right there in the store and not to spend the money - even suggested some much nicer things like the XD, which he said was ugly, and the 1911 - which my ex didn't like because he likes polymer frames. He will still say he likes it, but I was the last one to shoot that thing 4 years ago when I adjusted the trigger.

It's his gift, but my money - I don't want him ending up with a piece of crap because he doesn't know any better, and I don't want to pay for a piece of crap either. Does that make sense?


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> This is good info.
> I've fired my grandfathers national match Colt 1911 (accurized)...it's almost better than getting laid.
> 
> I definitely see the down side to the web safety issue and grip - I kind of remember this the first time I shot one, but that's been a long time. That is something to consider but isn't it kind of an upside? On a learning scale, you learn quick to hold it nice and tight and not get sloppy because it won't fire - I see the downside in the middle of the night under pressure if someone is breaking into the house though.
> ...


 
Not a bad idea, if he'll listen to you. Or just go with the 1911. Who doesn't like a 1911??? I don't know anyone who's picked one up, fired it, and said, "eh". Do it! Go Colt. Or Wilson Combat. As far as utilizing a firearm in a life or death, adrenaline pumped situation...have him practice practice practice. Then practice some more. Run realistic drills when practicing, maybe have him take a course or two. Its my personal belief that anyone who owns and intends on using a firearm for self defense better be an expert on that firearm. What a crappy way to go if someone is breaking into your house and you fail to defend yourself and your family because…you couldn’t find the safety. Or you botch the shot, miss and hit someone else you didn’t intend on shooting. Sorry for the rant…go 1911!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> This is good info.
> I've fired my grandfathers national match Colt 1911 (accurized)...it's almost better than getting laid.


Have gun will travel...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

This is good info.
I've fired my grandfathers national match Colt 1911 (accurized)...it's almost better than getting laid. 

Good grief.

I have no idea why anyone would chose something other than the 1911 for a first pistol.

I have not shot everything on the planet, but I would rather **** than shoot.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Hence the "almost", Jeff. Besides, at least with shooting, you're the only one responsible if you're not satisfied with the end result.


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## James Idi (Apr 19, 2009)

> I definitely see the down side to the web safety issue and grip - I kind of remember this the first time I shot one, but that's been a long time. That is something to consider but isn't it kind of an upside?


It really depends on individual perspective, and the dedication of the shooter. Many professional armed agencies do not favor manual safeties simply because they lack the funds / resources to conduct regular sustainment training, which can result in the loss of conditioning achieved during initial training. This has lead to incidents of shooters failing to disengage the manual safety under stress during deadly force encounters. Revolvers and "point and press" pistols eliminate some of these issues, and are a better option for those that will only train quarterly, semi-annually, etc. IMO, if an individual is not willing to shoot at least weekly, or dry fire weekly, than a "point and press" pistol is a better option.

I view the thumb and grip safeties of the 1911 as an advantage simply because those unfamiliar with the platform, or with weak fundamentals, could find it difficult to operate the platform should they come into possession of my gun for some unforeseen reason. I have been conditioned to operate a manual safety under stress for years in service, and if your hubby is a shooter, and has been in any decent organization in his career, he should be well conditioned to operating a manual safety prior to engaging a target. This conditioning easily translates to running the safety on a 1911, or any other arm, and should be reinforced with weekly dry / live fire or competition.



> Another thought on the subject. How many guys are going to be ok having their wife bring them into a gun shop to help them pick something out? If we went that route, I don't want it to be embarrassing for him either, but I don't want to send him loose in a gun shop alone to pick something out when he doesn't know the difference in quality.


Are you kidding? No man, worthy of the title, would be pissed off if his gal said "Let's go to the gun store to pick out a new pistol!" and if he DID, I would suspect that said individual is actually a woman in a mans' body.

DL images of the guns, cut them out, put them in a card, and sign it "Pick one!". Go to a range and test fire ALL of them. Make it a condition that you must be able to operate the pistol as well, and if he picks out some stupid shit like an overpriced P.O.S. "H&K Tuetonic VI" or whatever, just claim an inability to operate it effectively, and move on.

Another nice part of the gift would be an annual membership in either IDPA or USPSA with a kydex holster and mag pouches. IDPA is more laid back and would allow you to draw from concealment. USPSA has higher round counts and is more speed/accuracy focused. Both are fun, and are excellent ways to maintain and develop proficiency on the operation of your gun.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I definitely see the down side to the web safety issue and grip - I kind of remember this the first time I shot one, but that's been a long time. That is something to consider but isn't it kind of an upside?


 Everyone talks about the safeties on the Colt. That's the main reason I carry it. Ask any child how to fire a gun and they'll tell you "pull the trigger". Give an empty 1911 to a person and see how long it takes for them to figure it out. When fighting for your life that involves a gun in the mix I want one that the bad guy can't easily kill me with if he happens to get it from me. Purists will say that the bad guy should never get your gun if you practice proper gun retention. This is true but who all on here is Steven Segal?

If you are hands on over your gun and it's a Colt you have many options on keeping the gun from being used on you. The safeties are one. Grabbing the slide and taking it out of battery is another if the safeties are disengaged. A finger between the hammer and slide is another. Taking an eye out or a lip hook works also. The Colt gives you time. I don't pretend that I can whip everyone. There's always someone out there who is badder and doesn't give a flip about you pointing a gun at them, then you're fighting one handed.

The vast majority of people don't know how to operate this weapon. That alone gives you plenty of time to deploy a secondary weapon. This happened to me once. I was losing a fight over my Colt but I had plenty of time to deploy my Tanto blade dagger at the last second ., I could have handed him the gun with plenty of time as I can get my knife in one second. When that shithead saw the blade come out he let go of the gun and screamed like a girl. Love my Colt.

On the flip side....you better have a backup plan or no know neat incapacitating strikes. Someone gets your Glock and you're toast unless they only get the one shot off and it doesn't cycle. That one shot may me the only one they need though.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Ashley...get him a water pistol! If he complains crack him upside the head. Use the hormones going crazy excuse!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Supersoaker or cheap clear plastic kind?


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

The ones from the penny store...Oh yeah that was back in the 70's!!!


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Supersoaker or cheap clear plastic kind?


The Dick Tracy Water Rifle (from a LOT, LOT of years ago) was one of the best toys I got.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Supersoakers are pretty cool, my boys have one each of the huge ones - however, they are no match for the kitchen sprayer hose. Mom wins.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> This is good info.
> I've fired my grandfathers national match Colt 1911 (accurized)...it's almost better than getting laid.


Hmmm . . . I'm guessing you're not doing it right. 

If you like the Colt Commander, you might want to at least consider a Dan Wesson V-Bob or older C-Bob. I have a Dan Wesson Heritage RZ-45 and it's real, real nice. I think stock they are between a Colt and the upper echelon of Wilson/Ed-Brown/Fusion/etc. as far as refinements and upgrades. Since this is your husband's first gun you can check Gun Broker or RiverofGuns.com to find a really nice gently used/like new guy for less than new and maybe get a smaller manufacturer's gun (like a V-Bob or C-Bob) without taking the hit if buying a new gun. And if he hates it, well, it's yours! Anyway, gently used might save you some cash until you get a full-on custom Ed Brown Commander model for him once you know he's into that sorta stuff.

Regarding the perceived cons of 1911 safeties, I think they're actually positives. I think the palm safety teaches a firm grip, the thumb safety is pretty secure, if you're using it in case of a break in adrenaline would seem to dictate you'll be holding on pretty @#$% tight (another reason I would not worry about the grip safety). Speaking of grips, the narrow grips are to die for. I also think the disengaging the thumb safety would just become a natural part of the gripping motion, kind of using a baitcaster or any other acquired muscle-memory skill.

Also, when I went searching, Springfield (1911's and XD/XDM's) and Sig (never shot one, but really liked them in the shop and eventually want one) were highly recommended. I like my Beretta, so maybe that diminishes the value of my opinion, but I really like my DW, thought the Sig's designs were pretty intelligent (you might like the DAK trigger as an option, kind of a smooth-pulling DAO), and thought the Springfields felt pretty great too.

As for your husband being embarrassed, it probably depends. First, how insecure about this would he be? I wouldn't care about that if I were him to be honest. Second, it might depend on the gun dealer. One guy in town would be such a relentless prick that I'd just be annoyed the whole time. The other place has some really nice, intelligent, helpful, and friendly clerks that would just joke and be cool about it then help me make the right decision on a gun. Finally, it would depend on you. But for me, my wife would have to be a bit of a tool for me to get annoyed. Of course, she doesn't shoot and I'd have to drag her to a gun shop, but hypothetically speaking if my wife and the gun shop clerk were reasonably cool and good natured about the whole ordeal I would not really care one bit.

-Cheers


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