# Pup Barking at Neighbor's Kids



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Kids are little and about 75 yards away. Playing nicely, and pup is on alert moves forward and barks. I call him back and tell him I see them. Trying to acknowledge his alertness. 

Pup is almost 13 weeks now. Any thoughts on what I could / should do to acknowledge his alert yet get him to stop?

Thanks...


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

A few questions Ted.......Is the pup in his own backyard and the kids in theirs? Is there fencing in between him and the kids? Is the pup loose or on the leash? 

Quote: moves forward and barks......what do you mean is he watching them and moving forward in their direction a little bit or a lot or making little jumps towards them while barking?

Do you want to get him to stop barking or stop the moves towards the kids or both?

Sorry Ted i said a few questions :lol: guess a few more came to mind while reading;-)


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Hello Hil, Thanks for the questions!

The kids are actually visiting the neighbor, and they are in their yard. No fence. Pup and us are on our front porch.

Pup is loose, but stays close. I realize in another couple weeks he may feel comfortable enough to just take off, and I'll deal with that at that time.

The pup is watching them and takes a few steps to get between us and them, it seems. Pup is still within 10' of me.

I'd like the dog to realize that I don't consider it a threat, so stop barking / advancing. I'm figuring the goal is for him to alert me to potential threats or something unusual. Once I am aware, I would like to communicate this awareness to him, praise him, maybe and then that's it.

Thanks!


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I'd just ignore it, and make sure the pup has some type of fence to keep him from exploring in a few weeks. It'll happen soon enough. My pups like to run over to the neighbors barb wire fence to bark at the cows, I've had to yell at Yasko more than a few times for trying to crawl under the barb :roll:


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

barbed wire has never stopped my dogs from going under/through (heck, it doesn't stop the cattle/horses at times!) to get after something--just have to watch for wire cuts between the shoulder blades. there are times when i want them to go, and times i don't; the trick is having a solid "hier", "come", "wait" what have you to stop them.

first steput the pup on a long line so you have some control.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Kids are playing and laughing. The pup is 13 weeks.....maybe he just wants to join in because it sounds like fun. Two pups playing in one yard here can wind every dog up that can't join in.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Ted White said:


> Hello Hil, Thanks for the questions!
> 
> The kids are actually visiting the neighbor, and they are in their yard. No fence. Pup and us are on our front porch.
> 
> ...


I think I would just let him be for a bit and watch how he progresses with this. At the moment he's doing nothing wrong IMO.;-)


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

ann freier said:


> barbed wire has never stopped my dogs from going under/through (heck, it doesn't stop the cattle/horses at times!) to get after something--just have to watch for wire cuts between the shoulder blades. there are times when i want them to go, and times i don't; the trick is having a solid "hier", "come", "wait" what have you to stop them.
> 
> first steput the pup on a long line so you have some control.


Oh I'm not worried about it.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

So if it should keep up, wouldn't a small correction be in order?


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Ted White said:


> So if it should keep up, wouldn't a small correction be in order?


Personally if he was barking away for long period of time just to hear the sound of his own voice lol I would just tell him to be still and distract him with something else. No problem though in letting him bark and tell you theres something going on thats just a good thing. YOU are the one though that when enough is enough is the one that calls the shots.;-)


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Good thoughts there Hil. Thanks. Makes sense.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Ted White said:


> Kids are little and about 75 yards away. Playing nicely, and pup is on alert moves forward and barks. I call him back and tell him I see them. Trying to acknowledge his alertness.
> 
> Pup is almost 13 weeks now. Any thoughts on what I could / should do to acknowledge his alert yet get him to stop?
> 
> Thanks...


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hello Ted, I will have keep pressing my earlier comments about his genetics. He is simply doing what he was bred for. That sharpness, is a common trait amongst the CZECH Border Patrol lines. This should not be a surprise. 

Now, I would only bring him out to play tug, when the area is loaded with kids and strangers of all sorts. However, he needs to have a good foundation of tug and ball games, food based training first. Then just before I take them outside to train or play, the items are shown to him right at the door before exiting. If obedience food training, then I ask for a sit and focus, then head outside and work with dog. This gives the dog a prepping cue that fun stuff happens when we head outside and I should focus on the handler. If you just cut him loose in the back and he starts to get territorial, well that is simply the enviroment manipulating his drives, instead of you doing it. This is a very common problem in these genetics and you must desensitize him to this asap. Be careful here, I am NOT telling you to socialize him with every kid in town. Just to make you, the games, and training his only interest.

Tell me Ted, what made you decide on this type of dog, what kind of goals did you have, and what kind of communication did you have with the breeder about this plan?

I'm not being critical here, or at least trying not to be, but my point is, these genetics are not for inexperienced folks. I would never have sold you a pup like this. In the wrong hands, these pups can be overwhelmed quite easily with the natural suspicion genetically put into them, they easily become junkyard dogs and dangerous. 

Bryan

www.k9cs.com


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Hello Bryan,

Thanks again for the thoughts. It's not that I'm surprised by his actions. In fact I've quoted you several timed to friends and family about the Czech behaviors.

I've been ramping up the desensitizing efforts. Walks on leash where there are dogs, kids, etc. I bring toys, tugs and treats to distract when he focus too much on kids and dogs. Seems to be working.

As far as dogs go, it turns out I bought exactly the type of dog I was looking for for PP work. I'm pretty happy. Fortunately I have a lot of time to devote to his training, etc.

Thanks again for taking an interest in my situation. Your posts are really very helpful and insightful. I'm quite grateful for them.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Just keep in mind:

You have now a memory in this pups ever growing mind. He now know's there are things to bark at and chase away outside. He marked his own behavior by barking. I would be shocked if each time he went outside now, he didn't go out there looking for them first.

That is why it is key to make other cue's or markers for him now. By showing him the toy and teasing him a bit prior to going outside, that is what is on his mind, not where are the strangers. Once you have this sort of who cares attitude around your property, you then have a dog you can deal with.

For Personal Protection reasons, I would much rather prefer to teach suspicion when older through confidence building techniques. Providing he develops properly.

Good luck Ted.

Bryan


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

It doesn't seem to maybe be so gloomy... In fact, in the many times that we have gone outside since, he's made no advances or even looks in that direction. I have him outside chasing things, and I'm talking to him.

The neighbor's kids were only there once, and he only barked briefly until I called him back & gave a treat. So apparently not at all locked in his mind as you mentioned.

So I think things are good.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Ted White said:


> As far as dogs go, it turns out I bought exactly the type of dog I was looking for for PP work. I'm pretty happy. Fortunately I have a lot of time to devote to his training, etc.


 
Just latching in here to what Bryan wrote.......Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread, but have you had a PP dog before this pup Ted? Do you train with him by yourself or with a group of others?


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

I have had a PP dog before and trained with a now disbanded group.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Took the pup to the community center. People of all ages walking in and out, cars coming and going. Turned out to be a super area for socializing. I can control the exposure, plenty of sidewalks, grass and bushes. I can see over the bushes who is coming and approach them in distant or closer encounters.

Pup was originally on alert to cars and people, but surprisingly quickly became cool with the whole thing. I was really delighted. I had no one pet him, but I stopped as people stopped and we talked while the pup sat there. All low key and calm. Pup really seemed to like it.

Pup wanted to play with some people, but we (people) just kept talking, with no attention to the pup. Then we walked on.

Today we walked by some cows, and that went well also.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Sounds like you and the pup are just doing great Ted


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

A little thought I keep in the corner of my mind: I always want to be more interesting to my dog than anything that's going on around him. 

Ted we're both in Michigan...I've PM'd you.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Tough to stay interesting when you are as boring as me... good thing to keep in mind, though.

Went to dog park yesterday. All other dogs on other side of fence. At first not a great deal of interest. We went closer and he was able to see some crazy dog behavior up close. He never really wanted to join in, per say. But anted to check things out. Smaller dogs close by were no issue. A couple of giant Newfs came lumbering over and that caused my pup to back away a bit.

The whole time I was 10' away. Pup advanced to fence and when spooked, he came toward me, but never behind me. That seemded significant and good.

Interesting that when a couple of college age girls stuck their hands through the fence, the pup walked by and sniffed, but no play. He acknowledged them but no interest. That also seemed good. 

He does not bark at neighbors or neighbors dog any longer. I try and take him to a socialization area daily if possible.

So things seem to be going well. Thanks for all the support and thoughts.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ted White said:


> Tough to stay interesting when you are as boring as me... good thing to keep in mind, though.
> 
> Went to dog park yesterday. All other dogs on other side of fence. At first not a great deal of interest. We went closer and he was able to see some crazy dog behavior up close. He never really wanted to join in, per say. But anted to check things out. Smaller dogs close by were no issue. A couple of giant Newfs came lumbering over and that caused my pup to back away a bit.
> 
> ...


Ted, your going to have to get him to show more interest in college girls. If not, what's the point in having a cute puppy!  ;-)


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

Bob, I thought the same thing. Ol' Ted is missing an opportunity here...he's SO in tune to what his puppy's up to.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

well, Bob, you should know by now that youngsters DO NOT LISTEN to their elders as they should. 

if Ted won't take advantage while he has it with a cute pup, well, too bad for him  he may/may not learn as he and his dog get older......


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Heck! Why do you think I get a new pup every few yrs!    
 
OUCH! HONEST SWEETY PIE! Your reading way to much into my last post. OUCH! PLEASE dear! Not in front of the board members! OUCH! Now that's gonna leave a mark! O


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Now why didn't I see this coming...


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Ted White said:


> Now why didn't I see this coming...


 
cos Bob loves the surprise approach:lol:


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Clearly he's a sneaky one... :-\"


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

Yes but his wife slapped him around a good one.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Sorry Bob... I feel responsible. #-o


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

SIGH! And me being such a nice old grandpa!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Pauline Michels said:


> Yes but his wife slapped him around a good one.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Pupdate:

Pup really doesn't bark at people / kids any longer. Around a crowded place he doesn't much care about the goings on. I mean he's interested, but not at all anxious. However, when people approach to pet him, he'll sometimes back away afraid. So there's my area to keep working on. Not that I'm there to have him petted, but he needs to get used to people in all situations.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

When your introducing him to new people, let HIM make the first advances. Get people willing to work with this. have them squat down sideways to the pup with no eye contact. The average person wants to bend over the pup and that can be intimidating.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Bob, that's great info here. The squatting sideways is such a great thought. And have him aproach them. When the squatting has happened in the past he's quite tail wagging, so continued exposure to this should work.

Now how to get these strangers to squat sideways. Not sure they'll take it all that well 8-[ I'll have to work on my delivery.

Thanks a lot. Very much appreciated


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

"Hi cute college girl, can you squat for my dog so he'll like you???"


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

That's not a bad line. I could try that.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

I realize this sounds awful, but would a lure of a food treat help in the short term? THis would have to be really short term, but I thought might help speed the process. I could hand the people a small treat to give to pup.

THis sounds risky, though. Next thing all peole are an opportunity for a treat, which is definately not what I want.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

The more I think about it, the worse that food idea is. Bad Ted, bad [-X


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I'd go with food if your dog shys away from people. If he warms up to them pretty quick then no biggie, but if it takes a bit then having people turn into hotdog dispensers isn't a bad idea.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Hmmm... OK I'll see what works. I'll focus on Bob's "turn and squat" technique primarily. Based on what I know, that should work well for my particular pup. I always have treats in a bait pouch, anyway.

Thanks for the opinion Mike.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ted White said:


> That's not a bad line. I could try that.


Ted. I must caution you about this. That IS a bad line. 



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> When your introducing him to new people, let HIM make the first advances. Get people willing to work with this. have them squat down sideways to the pup with no eye contact. The average person wants to bend over the pup and that can be intimidating.


What Bob is saying is big. Even people you aren't particularly working on him accepting, it's great to keep them from looming over him or making eye contact. 

Aside from the intimidation factor of big person staring and looming...... a person who is turned away and ignoring the dog while talking with you is probably going to pique the dog's curiosity sooner or later, at which point the dog might get closer for a sniff. Depending on how interested the dog is, you might still want the person to ignore the dog for a while.

Curiosity can trump initial anxiety.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

More good stuff there, Connie. Thanks. Ignoring while talking is something that has proven beneficial for me earlier with this socialization.

Thanks again,


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I have no problems with even stranges offering food to the pup. If the pup has issues now, you don't want these to carry over to adult hood. Then it can become a fear aggression issue. 
I'm trying VERY hard to avoid any comment on Mike's advice about squatting college girls. :-# :-# :-# =;


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I'm trying VERY hard to avoid any comment on Mike's advice about squatting college girls. :-# :-# :-# =;


 
Bob Bob :^o


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Ted. I must caution you about this. That IS a bad line.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



Oh ive gotten away with worse lines than that, its all in the delivery!


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

OK, I'm backing off of Mike's line, going with Bob's "Turn and Squat" in a watered down delivery, and considering food if it looks advantagous. Got it!


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