# AKC Protection Sports



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Has anyone done anything with the AKC's protection dog sport? Looks like it is patterned from the Schutzhund BH...Looking for feedback. How do they decoy? How are those decoys different from Schutzhund?


----------



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Howard, there is no difference. It's schutzhund


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Most, if not all of the AKC judges are WDA judges. 
Mike West, the head WDA judges had a lot to do with the developement of the AKC program. At present, it's in a "trial run". Some time in 09 they will make the decission if it will become a recognized program that titles will be placed behind the dog's name. Dogs that have earned titles in this "trial period" will carry over those titles earned and be allowed to put them behind the dogs name on official AKC papers. 
As most here know, titles earned in other protection dog sports arent recognized by the AKC. Not even titles earned from the WDA. WDA which is the working organization of the GSDCA (Officially AKC recognized parent club of the GSD). Not a big deal with most folks here but, like it or not, AKC is still the only FCI recognized organization in the US. 
Yes! the performance is identical to the Schutzhund performance.


----------



## mark chase (May 7, 2008)

the akc and fci only have an agreement to accept each others stud book. they do not accept titles given by each. awdf had a shot if they were willing to become more than just a working dog entity. board was afraid of loosing control to small non working breeds so it has exhibitor status and I think will not be granted more than this.

mark


Bob Scott said:


> Most, if not all of the AKC judges are WDA judges.
> Mike West, the head WDA judges had a lot to do with the developement of the AKC program. At present, it's in a "trial run". Some time in 09 they will make the decission if it will become a recognized program that titles will be placed behind the dog's name. Dogs that have earned titles in this "trial period" will carry over those titles earned and be allowed to put them behind the dogs name on official AKC papers.
> As most here know, titles earned in other protection dog sports arent recognized by the AKC. Not even titles earned from the WDA. WDA which is the working organization of the GSDCA (Officially AKC recognized parent club of the GSD). Not a big deal with most folks here but, like it or not, AKC is still the only FCI recognized organization in the US.
> Yes! the performance is identical to the Schutzhund performance.


----------



## Jack Martin (Feb 12, 2008)

It sounds like, smells like a mockery. It is somewhat scary what could hapen and what type of dogs could be titled.As it is there are already problems in the organizations that believe in bitework and testing working dogs.For example the 2008 Sieger show where numerous dogs were v rated that could not even perform a Sch 3 routine.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks Mark! I knew the AWDF was working on it at one time. Just didn't know the final resullts.

Jack, it will be interesting to see what happens IF it becomes a certified AKC sport. 
I've witnessed the protection debacle at two different Sieger shows. I doubt most these people with put the effort into the AKC protection sport. All they want is the "proof" :roll: that their dogs can bite in order to get to the show ring. 
The AKC show dogs.........One in a thousand.........maybe!

The show folks (for the most part) have no interest in the extra work need to compete in anything other then a race around the ring. 
Some will try, and find out the true character of their dogs. 
With a bit of luck......well...with tons of luck some will discover that they really do have a dog that's capable. 
Now I think I'm going to go check out a rainbow I see. I hear they have pots of gold at the end! :lol:


----------



## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

I guess its all well and good but having that title on my dogs papers still is not enough for me to compete in it. Sorry, but I just have never been able to get into Sch. or now AKC. But for those of you who enjoy I see no problem in trying it out. Maybe this will open up some doors for us other people in AKC, maybe later we will have some suit sports, that is if AKC is still around.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Like any cross over activity, I too am not sure about the AKC working dog sport. They don't post titles from Schutzhund or other established training areas. Yet, they want the gene pool! Odd... Titles are nice if that is want floats yer boat.

The last thing I want to see is a Lassie-like working dog being titled and having claims as a "true" worker. This is some of the issue that the American Border Collie folks have had with the AKC. If it works, I don't care if it is pink, just do the job that you have been bred to do. I need to hear and see more before I go crazy of this working dog area.


----------



## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I don't think it's any different than what they are doing with the German show line dogs and getting them easy titles. 

Maybe it will do something good for AKC- if it takes off, it might get people back to breeding for their working ability instead of how they trot around the ring. 

What really gives me a chuckle is when you see those Eukanuba dog shows on TV, and the announcers talk about how this dog was bred to do this job, and that dog was bred to do this other job, and none of them can do the job they were bred to do. They never really talk about that part.


----------



## Jack Martin (Feb 12, 2008)

Schutzhund,PSA,awda,apda,uspca, you name it is just an organization setup with there own standards and rules.Now AkC is trtying to throw there hat in. Unfortuanetly, Schutzhund is even much more watered down compared to what it's original standards were. I like competeing in Schutzhund, but we always try to train outside of the box to keep our dogs open to anything at anytime.It is when you shut the door
(SAME OLE SAME OLE) down on dogs and people when they stop wanting or being able to learn.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I think this is all about WUSV being hosted by GSDCA-WDA 5 years from now in 2013. How would that have been possible if AKC (parent organization of GSDCA) did not even acknowledge the existence or legitimacy of the sport?


----------



## Jack Martin (Feb 12, 2008)

Cha ching$


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I can just see it in the year 2014....after raking in the $$$ from GSDCA-WDA hosting WUSV, AKC will have a "change of heart". In order to title, a dog will not be allowed to place his mouth on the helper. Instead of a courage test, there will be the "Timmy is in the well" test where the "helper" will hide and the dog will run back and forth from the helper to the handler barking like crazy. Extra points if he does a little dance too.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> .... Instead of a courage test, there will be the "Timmy is in the well" test where the "helper" will hide and the dog will run back and forth from the helper to the handler barking like crazy. Extra points if he does a little dance too.


You scoff. Obviously you have not seen the _Timmy is in the well _test done right.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Our early SAR days had more then one "Timmy in the well" scenarios. Now we can bite Timmy in the ass if he tries to get out on his own!


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

is that a method of teaching Timmy to "stay"? if so, that's NOT "positive" training, tho i guess there could be an argument made for it being "reward" training......hehe


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

ann freier said:


> is that a method of teaching Timmy to "stay"? if so, that's NOT "positive" training, tho i guess there could be an argument made for it being "reward" training......hehe


Of course it's reward training. The dog gets rewarded with a bite on Timmy's butt! 
Definately not teaching Timmy anything. Everyone knows you can't teach a 10-12 yr old boy much of anything.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

or a 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20....i guess really, once they hit 10 they're prety much hopeless. unlike us females  

are we still OT?


----------

