# Good video, great Dutchie.



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvud3tJEY8Q&feature=channel

Is this Chucky?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Cool video. It made me wonder what is everyone’s thought on those fancy flying bites and PSD? Would you rather a dog trained to run up and bite without the super fly and a quicker recovery if they miss? Or would you rather the ninja leap? Other than looking cool I see no need for the leap for a dog that may be used for real? But I really don’t know anything, maybe I am just seeing it wrong? Not trying to bust balls


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Christopher Jones said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvud3tJEY8Q&feature=channel
> 
> Is this Chucky?


That looks like Mark Messier to me, I wondered what he was doing now.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

all that jumping around looks dangerous and easy to avoid but only for so long


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## Guest (May 23, 2010)

> It made me wonder what is everyone’s thought on those fancy flying bites and PSD?


 
Think about the mechanics of real-world biting, though. Practical circumstances generally prevent it. The suspect is hiding, dog is still on lead etc.

You need to stop harshing everyone's mellow about enthusiastic dogs, Chris.


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## Austin Matthews (Apr 19, 2010)

Great dog. I love how they used Motley Crue as the music


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

You need to stop harshing everyone's mellow about enthusiastic dogs, Chris.



[/quote

?


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## Guest (May 23, 2010)

You know exactly what I'm talking about.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

harshing everyone's mellow hu? 
I dig thinking hard working enthusiastic dogs. I think you might mean me busting on crack head spases? I aint busting here this looks like a cool dog and a cool video. I like the flying bites there fun to watch. That guy did a good job dodging that dog three times, I think that slippery floor might have given the guy an advantage. The dog did good, it was a legit question. Whats a mellow?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Christopher Jones said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvud3tJEY8Q&feature=channel
> 
> Is this Chucky?


Very possible, seeing the dog. Also, I see Dick van Leenen en he works with the KLPD. He made the contact in the US selling/buying Chucky from Klaas Evers, the handler who trainde Chucky and made PHI with him.


Dick


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## Sudhir Mathur (Sep 10, 2009)

I agree with what Chris has to say.....If the dogs have to fly then let them fly for a purpose like in the beginning of the clip I provide below....

http://www.youtube.com/StealthPawsK9#p/a/u/0/nZbeRPcmwYQ

I like this dutchie Zippo and also the one owned by chris .....great dogs with some amazing qualities and stability....

Cheers....


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

that is chucky's owner so im assuming its him (although they did go over and buy a 1/2 brother, zorro? recently)


that is the dick that when I heard he came out, I though it was the dick (ven leeuwen) from this site


I like that dog, and (I mentioned on another thread about pit bull being in knpv dogs, some people seemed surprised), with that dog you can really see it, I would have guessed grandparent but he said 8 generations back I believe


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Sudhir Mathur said:


> I agree with what Chris has to say.....If the dogs have to fly then let them fly for a purpose like in the beginning of the clip I provide below....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/StealthPawsK9#p/a/u/0/nZbeRPcmwYQ
> 
> ...


Hey cool video, not knocking it but do have a question.

When the dog is sent into a tight crowd of people, how is he processing who to bite out of the crowd? It appears that the differentiation is the bite suit. I am curious as too how this transfers to a real-world application. Unless I am seeing it wrong.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

I saw that officer, and Dick, work on that and it was pretty interesting. I believe it was no suit (muzzle, or hidden sleeve) and they would send the dog down a long hallway after the target, but right as the dog is sent, other people would come out of rooms between the dog and decoy and run away just like the decoy. Actually saw the dog squeeze between people and push them out of the way to get to the target.

Another time with PD, they sent the dog on a decoy with a hidden sleeve, the first time he purposely waited till the last second to dart behind a wall where I was with a bite suit on. The original decoy was actually already around the other side when the dog came around the first corner and I was there (moving and making noise), he actually ignored and pushed past me to go around the next corner and bite the original decoy.


Once they got the initial missile/target lock, they ignored everything else


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> Once they got the initial missile/target lock, they ignored everything else


I had the same question. That's really cool. In the video it doesn't look like they did it that way. Did they, and then just not film the beginning of each exercise?


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## Sudhir Mathur (Sep 10, 2009)

Precisely....I think they edited the first part of the exercise and do not show how the dog targeted.....but I am sure they have a method of making the dog understand who the target is....and in this case the decoy was in civil with a suit inside....

Cheers...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is the reason you think there is pit in there Matt ??


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

pit is used for weight, muscle and jaw strength, great dane (old lines) is used for height, muscle, weight and jaw strenght. There is great dane in our lines, it is in Robbie Buddemeijer, way back, but you can still see it by the shape of lips and ears in Spike for example.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

NOW you've done it. Every IDIOT in the US will be crossing these things. They cannot even make their own lines, and now this. #-o


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> NOW you've done it. Every IDIOT in the US will be crossing these things. They cannot even make their own lines, and now this. #-o


I was thinking the same thing as I was reading the comment about the crosses that were used way back, and then I came to your post here. LOL


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is the reason you think there is pit in there Matt ??



from looking at them, from conversations with some knpv people, and this officer that went over the pick up/out the dog himself told me (in this case)


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> pit is used for weight, muscle and jaw strength, great dane (old lines) is used for height, muscle, weight and jaw strenght. There is great dane in our lines, it is in Robbie Buddemeijer, way back, but you can still see it by the shape of lips and ears in Spike for example.



first time I heard of this was about 15 years ago, late dog trainer from CO John Jermeroth (RIP) was talking about the mal/great dane mixes that were supposed to be awesome (although those non-dutch...I forget the line...long leggy really tal mals that people have seem to look more great dane-ish)


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> I was thinking the same thing as I was reading the comment about the crosses that were used way back, and then I came to your post here. LOL




that was pretty much what my response was on the thread about donovan pinchers, besides all the other multiple issues... why would anyone think that one guy with no budget and a few dogs that just started recently, would be able to compare to the KNPV program that he is basically trying to emulate and recreate?.....pretty much the worst idea ever

but then again I guess all the bandogs (AB's, presa, CC, etc) are all trying something similar too



(those more knowledgeable, please weigh in or correct me)


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

(since im making tons of posts)

might as well put up the link for the original video of chucky, I will have to ask, cant remember if he is tiesto (?) lines or what


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9OtcNZid7Q


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> (since im making tons of posts)
> 
> might as well put up the link for the original video of chucky, I will have to ask, cant remember if he is tiesto (?) lines or what
> 
> ...


Yeah hes a Tiesto son. Re: Pits in Chucky, have a look at Rana in his pedigree.
When I got semen taken from Tommy the Vets have to sign a statement that the dog is not a pitbul or pitbul cross to come into Australia. The Vet in Holland rings me saying that he has concerns Tommy has pitbul in him. He says he has never seen the jaw muscles like on Tommy anywhere other than Pits or Amstaffs. I told him it was from biting so much on the KNPV suit.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
pit is used for weight, muscle and jaw strength, great dane (old lines) is used for height, muscle, weight and jaw strenght. There is great dane in our lines, it is in Robbie Buddemeijer, way back, but you can still see it by the shape of lips and ears in Spike for example.

How long ago ?? I think I remember referencing a video where I saw the Great Dane in a dog, and someone said the 60's.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

How many generations after these crosses is there still signs/carryover/etc in the present dogs.
One often hears about how "My dog has such and such dog 4-5 generations back".
How much does that carry to the present generation?


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

this dog supposedly has it 8 generations back, but I could tell instantly from looking I would have guessed a grandparent....but, at least with the bullies/bandogs, the pit bull blood is very dominant, so maybe it makes sense that it can be pretty far back and carry the massive head/jaws forward in the progeny


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: How many generations after these crosses is there still signs/carryover/etc in the present dogs.
One often hears about how "My dog has such and such dog 4-5 generations back".
How much does that carry to the present generation?

Phenotype I have seen it from way back, but it is a fluke thing usually.

I bred in a manner similar to the way they bred as well. At that point, 4-5 might very well carry pretty well.

Most breed scatterbred, or sorta linebred. "open" pedigrees and such. This is where a lot of breeding "theory" gets all messed up. If someone breeds real tight, and someone else breeds open, or slightly linebred, it gets confusing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvdi9qQTOPE&feature=related

Here is the vid with the dog that looks like he has Dane in him. I would probably call him a throwback, if the litter mates ad what not did not look like this.

The "V" litter loups du soliel has a pup that looked like there was a throwback to Dane in there.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> pit is used for weight, muscle and jaw strength, great dane (old lines) is used for height, muscle, weight and jaw strenght. There is great dane in our lines, it is in Robbie Buddemeijer, way back, but you can still see it by the shape of lips and ears in Spike for example.
> 
> How long ago ?? I think I remember referencing a video where I saw the Great Dane in a dog, and someone said the 60's.


late ´70´s i think, but have to ask Dick to be sure.
We've "throwbacks" cause we bred very tight.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Well, this just answers a recent question I had when I saw a LE K9 where I was training cadavar. The first thing I thought of was Dane when I saw this dog working. I have to admit, I did chuckle under my breath when I saw him as I thought someone had sold this dept a bill of goods. But the dog seemed to work well and that is all that matters.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> this dog supposedly has it 8 generations back, but I could tell instantly from looking I would have guessed a grandparent....but, at least with the bullies/bandogs, the pit bull blood is very dominant, so maybe it makes sense that it can be pretty far back and carry the massive head/jaws forward in the progeny


i have not seen chukky in person, but the picture i saw of him when he was first brought over here, i instantly thought "pit". the shape of the dog's head gives it away.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Why would you chuckle under your breath just on how it looked ??

I have seen really nice looking dogs that ran from the sport helper in LE.

I guess in the US how something looks is really what it is all about.


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvdi9qQTOPE&feature=related
> 
> Here is the vid with the dog that looks like he has Dane in him. I would probably call him a throwback, if the litter mates ad what not did not look like this.


You mean that third dog? It's subtle but there definitely looks to be some hound/Dane features in there somewhere. Ears, eyes, back end and tail carriage. Very interesting.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I didn't say which dog, but he is rather obvious with the straight back legs and the weird calmness about him as he crushes that guys arm.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

would be nice to see some pics or video of the old working great danes


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

in the old days when my father start training around 1960 
there was only bouvier,and german sheperts and crosses from this 
for example there wassnt one malinois in our province 
maybe dogs that had a malinois colour but were build as germans whith wiry coats 
than around 1964 there was this guy in limburg van vossen he had a malinois and a great dane 
the great dane for familydog by accident they bred and he kept back a male who turned out to be 
very big strong lots of police were interested because they love the way the mali worked but didnt like the sice so the dog was bred and you had vossebloed foxblood 
named after van vossen 
in 1965 my father became his first malifemale lobo she was the founder from the (arnoline)
who still excist in arko sutlle and so on 
every year on hemelvaarts dag they had a big competition for the best dogs known that year in holland it was a big prestige to work your dog there in that way my father had excess over loking at so many dogs comming all over from holland 
in those days it wassnt so common to travel so far for dogs not many people had a car 
so in that way he saw dogs work like rex vd broeke ,cabil lennertz ,berry freins 
narcillo,rudy peeters robby hoogeboom ,he used all those dogs and many more to build his lines 
you can find in many dogs and lines still around 
greetings gerben


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Thank you for that. I have worked a few Great Danes, and a couple were impressive.


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

plus what my notice is that when my father bred that looks always came down the line 
if the dog had a floppy ear no problem if the leggs were not straight no problem 
as long as it didnt effect the work 
they wanted strong dogs whith good ability to work 
you can imagine that some dane in the lines you dont get always straight ears plus they nine out off times overbuild 
not always full mouth off teeth the great danes,pitbull terriers you see many times teeth missing 
as long as it didnt effect the work no problem 
nowadays the dogs must be right size ,good colour no floppy ears 
supersocial,very high playdrive insanely strong nerves beatifull looking 
full mouth of teeth a hipps zero ellbows spline perfect straight tail ,dark eyes 
not handler agressive ,still must be exstremely strong on civil whitout losing their social behaviour 
fight strong in the muzzlle walk stairs up stairs down great whith kid otherdogs cats 
work after comming from the plane having almost no food no waterfor two or 3 days comming out of the crate showing immediathly all the behaviour i described otherwise its not a good dog 
plus i think a big difference is that in holland were training 
in the us were testing big difference in my eyes 
and in my eyes not always fair to a dog comming from the plane
and put up to test luckely there are people who know what their doing 
and know a dog issnt a machine and how many times you clone it it will never be 
greetings gerben


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Truer words were never said. I still wonder what the heck anyone would want with a dog dumb enough to chase a pipe like it was a ball.

Kinda like taking a dragster to the grocery store. Little over kill.


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

iam very cureous did someone see chucky work in the us 
and exspecially long distance hits 
greetings gerben


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

sorry i dont see any great dane in robby buddemeier it says only in chukky that is quint duinkerken hes from vossebloed versus buddemeier 
i know theres one who can know in holland thats gerard v hoek the breeder of robbie v leeuwen 
he was on the same club as buddemeier and also in the army 
the big head from chuckie comes from duco seegers and perro mokkink for sure in those lines is pitbull 
from rietveld iam pretty sure 
chukky thomas gilbert arizona i think the influence from robby in the lines from chukky issnt as great as in the v leeuwenlines


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I've seen chucky work a few times and he's the dog that made me want to get a dutchie. Joel Anderson is on this board and he works chucky a few days per week so maybe he'll chime in.

Coincidentally, Chucky is the reason I recently got out of jury duty. I was in the court room and the judge was asking questions about knowing Gilbert police officers and I mentioned Chucky's handler and him coming out to the club. The judge asked me the name of xxxxx dog and I said "Chucky" the the judge said that was the departments' favorite K9 and then dismissed me.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

^ you know that means they probably put someone from the OJ jury on in your place?


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Are these lines known for any characteristics? And how would they compare to the vanleeuwen or castor de goot lines?


Im interested in general, but also to see if any of these dogs with obvious pit influence have any of the positive (or negative) traits that go along with it, less likely to bite the handler for example


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## R Janssen (Jul 25, 2008)

kamphuis gerben said:


> so in that way he saw dogs work like rex vd broeke ,cabil lennertz ,berry freins
> narcillo,rudy peeters robby hoogeboom ,he used all those dogs and many more to build his lines
> you can find in many dogs and lines still around
> greetings gerben


Funny to see all those dogs (except Hoogeboom) come from my province. :wink:

Indeed that dog from Lewieke "Wieke" Peeters was called Rudy. 
He was a member of the same club where my father was the decoy.

Rudy was a very small dog of 51 cm, just big enough to trail.
Father told me once that Rudy messed him up on the bicycle attack, he came on the arm and down they went.
At that moment Rudy decided to take a nip out of the back of his head. :???:

Rex van de Broek, was first owned by Marijnissen in Tegelen, (neighboring village) 
Marijnissen was also a special character, someone who had some strange training methods to release a dog from the bite... 

Some time back i posted some photo's of the local club from before the war, gives also an impression what dogs they used during that time. :

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f22/some-nostalgic-knpv-photos-10667/


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## Remco Fox (Apr 1, 2010)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> pit is used for weight, muscle and jaw strength, great dane (old lines) is used for height, muscle, weight and jaw strenght. There is great dane in our lines, it is in Robbie Buddemeijer, way back, but you can still see it by the shape of lips and ears in Spike for example.


my dog is also a good exemple off it he came trough tommie luijken who has bred trough van leeuwen 
i can tell by the size off my dog and its lips and droopy eyes like a bulldog he's six months and 36 kilo already:-o


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

You have an 80 lb 6 month old Dutchie ?? Holy Moley.


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