# What is the best age to stop feeding puppy food and why



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

I remember reading something about the best age to stop feeding puppy food but now cant find the article. I think it said to stop at 4 months to avoid overgrowth especially in large breed dogs, but I am not positive. Does anyone have information/opinions on this?


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I think it depends on the puppy food. Used to be they were high protein, high calcium, high everything for rapid growth and that backfired.

I think new puppy formulas can be much more careful about protein, calcium and phosphorus levels.

I am actually keeping Beau on Fromm puppy food until he is at least a year old. Honestly the formula is adquate for adults but by then I will probably switch him over to a grain free.

The older dogs eat TOTW but the calcium level is a bit high for growing pups.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The "stop feeding puppy food at 4-5 months of age" for large breed puppies advice was likely true 10-15+ years ago when there was not any good large breed puppy food. Now there are some good ones out there which are not quite as calorically dense (so they don't pack on the weight as quickly), but they are still optimally balanced for pups. I like Innova Large Breed and Holistic Selects Large & Giant Breed puppy foods.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

my guys eat lrg breed puppy food for 1 yr then to adult food


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Nutrition is one area that always got me in trouble during vet school. I haven't used puppy food in years. Maybe it made more sense years ago when there weren't so many premium diets that are balanced for all life stages. Now I see all these special diets formulated for puppies...and all the silly diets formulated for specific breeds...Chihuahua diet...what the hell is that? Did mom run around looking to kill special "puppy" rabbits for dinner? Ok...getting off my soap box now...


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I never start.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Kinda hard question to answer IMO, you got folks that feed pup food, people that feed adult food from day one, then they have stuff called all life stages, and then theres the infamous raw diet, I have done two out of the four I mentioned and know of others that have done the raw and have seen no differences in the puppies size, health or workability for the first year to two, so I kinda want to say it gos back to what I said on another thread and call it old wise tales. Oh then theres folks that do a mix of raw and dry, so who knows.


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

*"I never start."*
*(Kadi Thingvall - **www.dantero.com**) *
_________________

Kadi, am I taking this as you never fed the pups puppy food and why? (just curious)


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

The only thing I have read is some studies on Calcium levels and hip dysplasia......So I figure if there is a good food with lower Calcium than some foods out there that are very high..that is why I went with a large breed puppy food that and not wanting too high a protein for rapid growth....I think an adult dog food meeting those requirements would be the same way. So I am liking the Fromm with its very low ash and reasonably low calcium. 

I have also watched calories. If the minerals are low but so are the calories in a cup of food they are still going to be getting maybe more calcium than they need.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm kinda like Kadi. Mine eat adult. Stopped feeding "puppy" food many years ago. At the time there was tons of stuff out regarding the dangers of pushing growth, incorrect calcium/phosphorus ratios, etc. Mine have done well on 24-26% protein premium adult formulas.

T


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Kinda hard question to answer IMO, you got folks that feed pup food, people that feed adult food from day one, then they have stuff called all life stages, and then theres the infamous raw diet, I have done two out of the four I mentioned and know of others that have done the raw and have seen no differences in the puppies size, health or workability for the first year to two, so I kinda want to say it gos back to what I said on another thread and call it old wise tales. Oh then theres folks that do a mix of raw and dry, so who knows.


 
Here's your first. I have noticed a massive difference in the way puppies grow on RAW. 

Kibble, the puppies grow fast, get gangly and long legged. Thier frame seems to grow much faster than they can support muscle growth.

Raw, they grow slow and more evenly.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I use higher end adult food and feed in moderation! Add chicken necks and deer meat as well.
Puppy food, IMO, is a marketed "attraction feed." When you look at the bag, puppy and higher end adult food...look too close! Moderation in feeding and controlled exercise are what I use.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

James Downey said:


> Here's your first. I have noticed a massive difference in the way puppies grow on RAW.
> 
> Kibble, the puppies grow fast, get gangly and long legged. Thier frame seems to grow much faster than they can support muscle growth.
> 
> Raw, they grow slow and more evenly.


I have raised a puppy on a raw diet and several on kibble and have NOT made that same observation. Honestly, the only dog I have ever owned with HD was raised on raw.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I'm kinda like Kadi. Mine eat adult. Stopped feeding "puppy" food many years ago. At the time there was tons of stuff out regarding the dangers of pushing growth, incorrect calcium/phosphorus ratios, etc. Mine have done well on 24-26% protein premium adult formulas.
> 
> T


That is pretty much the same as most puppy formulas. I think the problem is when you get to the grain free 32-42% adult forumulas which are very high in calcium and ash.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

James Downey said:


> Here's your first. I have noticed a massive difference in the way puppies grow on RAW.
> 
> Kibble, the puppies grow fast, get gangly and long legged. Thier frame seems to grow much faster than they can support muscle growth.
> 
> Raw, they grow slow and more evenly.


James not looking for a argument fella, but I have also seen both done, I have not done the raw part but have a few friends up north that have, there pups and my pups over the years have not grown small or large, I think this is more of a genetic thing.


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Good thread folks. I am learning more about dogs with this pup than I ever had in my life. This was one of my biggest challenges even before getting a new pup. Puppy food, RAW, adult?Vitamin and mineral supplements? How do the genetics play into it? Then I got to thinkin', like Harry, moderation and exercise is the key? Oh boy...??? So I feed him a good quality kibble (adult) and raw. Looks good. Nice stools. Shiny coat. White teeth. Good breath unless he had fish..lol


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

For the two 12 week old GSD pups (Ino & Inca), and 5 month old GSD (Evelyn), I've been feeding Canidae kibble (all life stages) and Mountain High low fat yoghurt in the morning. 

They also get chicken necks or a small turkey neck at noon and green tripe in the evening. 

My adult GSD (Arkane) eats 100% raw.

Our ancient rottie/pit mix (Weiler) eats 100% kibble.

Canidae seems to get pretty good reviews on the dog food sites. It's not as expensive as a lot of them. Plus they have a program where if you buy 12 bags the next one is free. They even give you a nice envelope for saving the the cut out UPC codes they require for the free bag.


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## Colleen Sayre (Feb 4, 2012)

I've been making my own dog food for 40 years and do add a puppy formula for the first month after I wean the puppies. I also feed cottage cheese during that time but taper both off by 4 months regardless of the size of the dog. I think that basic common sense can tell what your dog needs; mom stops giving her pups her milk when she weans and they naturally begin the lower fat, higher protein meat diet. Modern day dogs develop allergies to grains which can lead to a myriad of reactions from skin problems to seizure disorders. I don't feed grain formulas ever. It is the same philosophy for young horses too who are fed food too rich which is not in balance with their "natural growth pattern" and bone disease is the result. I have had dogs with grain allergies and one Border Collie that developed a siezure disorder as a result (heartbreaking). I've never had a dog with cancer or bone disease and my dogs all live a disease free life until a ripe old age. Hope this helps.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The number one most important thing for large breed puppies is not the calcium or calcium/phosphorus ratios or protein levels or anything like that, but calorie density. The others are a very important consideration too, but it's calorie dense diets that put the pounds on the pup before they are mature that is the biggest issue. So say you're feeding two pups two different foods. Both have the same amount of nutrients per cup of food and on a per kg basis, both meet AAFCO guidelines, but one food has 400 kcal/cup and the other has 300 kcal/cup (I picked these numbers to make the math simpler). Okay, so what? Say the pups both need 1200 kcal per day.

-the pup eating the 400 kcal/cup food would get 3 cups
-the pup eating the 300 kcal/cup food would get 4 cups

But the issue is that the pup on the more calorically dense food (the 400 kcal/cup) would likely be getting less total nutrients because they are eating less total food. Or let's look at it a different way. The owners, thinking food is food, feed both pups 4 cups of food a day. Seems pretty reasonable, right?

The pup eating the more calorie dense food adds an extra 400 calories per day just to get about the same number of nutrients. That's 25% more calories than the pup needs to get the same nutrients. While it might not make them grow 25% faster, that will make a difference in their growth rates. That is the issue with feeding calorie dense foods (like the grain free foods designed for adults) to pups. You want the nutrient amounts to be correct, but not add in a bunch of extra calories that make them grow too fast. 

Gina mentioned why would it matter so much, since in nature, there are no special Chihuahua specific or wolf cub specific rabbits or deer or rodents or whatever. That's an interesting point and I think for some of our domestic species, such as cats and ferrets, that's true. With few exceptions, they have not changed as much by man as the dog has. The dog matures much much faster than the wolf with body structures ranging from everything from a 2 lbs Yorkie to a 200 lbs mastiff. They are the most morphologically diverse species on the planet. One day if we all went extinct, you'd have to wonder if an alien anthropologist came down and found the fossils of an English bulldog versus a rough collie versus a dachshund if they would know to put them in the same species.  So while I don't know if I support some of these "breed specific" formulas, I think the specific nutrition of the different life stages and breed type (large or giant type) has some merit.


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I use higher end adult food and feed in moderation! Add chicken necks and deer meat as well.
> Puppy food, IMO, is a marketed "attraction feed." When you look at the bag, puppy and higher end adult food...look too close! Moderation in feeding and controlled exercise are what I use.


This is what I do as well......Chihuahua diet...lol


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Posted it before, but I love this. Still wonder which marketing genius decided 'brain support' was ideal for Goldens.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Instead of heart and brain support, they should be more worried about cancer in goldens. Too many of those guys die of cancer. :-(


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Gina Pasieka said:


> This is what I do as well......Chihuahua diet...lol


Made with real Chihuahua?! Sweet! :grin: Now is that Chihuahua meat or meat meal? :-k


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

My girls would LOVE bagged cat if anyone can find any!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

julie allen said:


> My girls would LOVE bagged cat if anyone can find any!




Fresh is much better for them. 8-[ :-\"


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Thomas H. Elliott said:


> *"I never start."*
> _________________
> 
> Kadi, am I taking this as you never fed the pups puppy food and why? (just curious)


Correct. My puppies are raised on the same food their mom gets. Which is usually a combination of an adult kibble, and raw. Right now I'm feeding Nature's Domain (grain free from Costco) and I do a lot of turkey/chicken backs, necks, beef bones, organ meats (different sources) and other odds and ends I get from the store. 

IMO when puppy foods first came out it was as much a marketing thing as anything else. Even now, compare one brands "puppy food" to another brands "adult food" and you will find they are very similar. Yet one company claims their marketing showed their puppy food is perfect for pups, and another brand is claiming their marketing showed the same ratios were perfect for adults. I've been quite happy with how the pups I've raised have done on the adult kibbles, so I don't see any reason to start buying one more type of food, just for the pups. I keep an eye on their feet, pasterns, and growth rates and if I need to change foods I will but otherwise ...


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

I raise mine on good quality adult kibble, with some chicken necks, raw bones, hearts etc occasionally. I grow my pups out nice and lean.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Correct. My puppies are raised on the same food their mom gets. Which is usually a combination of an adult kibble, and raw. Right now I'm feeding Nature's Domain (grain free from Costco) and I do a lot of turkey/chicken backs, necks, beef bones, organ meats (different sources) and other odds and ends I get from the store.


Both the Nature's Domain foods are AAFCO formulated for all life stages (which is basically a puppy formulated food that adults can eat).


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

vicki dickey said:


> I remember reading something about the best age to stop feeding puppy food but now cant find the article. I think it said to stop at 4 months to avoid overgrowth especially in large breed dogs, but I am not positive. Does anyone have information/opinions on this?


I never fed puppy food, just start off with adult food.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

FWIW, if you want to check what your dog food is classified, ignore what it says on the front of the bag (adult, puppy, etc) and look on the back. It should have an AAFCO statement usually in pretty small print that says the food has been either formulated or used in feeding trials for gestation/lactation/growing dogs, adult maintenance, or all life stages. Many dog foods are labeled as "adult" foods, but when you look at the AAFCO statement, it's all life stages. This is basically puppy food that an adult can eat.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Both the Nature's Domain foods are AAFCO formulated for all life stages (which is basically a puppy formulated food that adults can eat).


Interesting, this is the first pup I've actually raised on this food. I know the Canidea was ALS, I don't know if the other foods I've used over the years are also.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I am looking at a bag of TOTW Wetlands that is 32% protein and it says on web 2.1% calcium and 1.4% phosphorus. Bag clearly says "all life stages"

Puppy does not get this food. The adults do.

This article - I realize on staff of Hills but we are talking numbers not quality of the stuff behind the numbers in this article.

https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm
any of the vets have opinions on this article ?

btw, do you have a problem with Hill's Nancy ? 
most of our country's (USA) military working dogs are fueled by Science Diet, and i'm sure we would never give anything but the best quality food to the dogs that protect our service members and our country


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I don't think his position with Hills has anything to do with the information being given in this article. He is not arguing for the use of corn and animal digest which I would not choose to feed...simply about various nutrient levels in growing pups. He is also a diplomate of the ACVM....older article but not someones web ramblings..I sure know they were feeding puppy food overstuffed with nutrients when I was younger a thousand years ago "puppy chow for a full year, till they're full grown"


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Holy crap. The world is officially ending. Hill's just came out with a "natural" grain free diet. Still don't think I'd feed it but...wow. That was a very, very long time coming. I guess they figure if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-canine-adult-grain-free-chicken-and-potato-dry.html


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I don't think his position with Hills has anything to do with the information being given in this article. He is not arguing for the use of corn and animal digest which I would not choose to feed...simply about various nutrient levels in growing pups. He is also a diplomate of the ACVM....older article but not someones web ramblings..I sure know they were feeding puppy food overstuffed with nutrients when I was younger a thousand years ago "puppy chow for a full year, till they're full grown"


Sorry, was momentarily distracted by the new grain free diet by Hill's.  Anyways, the article is pretty old and we now know that calories definitely does make a difference in the development of developmental joint disease. The big Purina study where they fed one cohort of pups from a litter 25% less Purina Dog Chow (in other words, not free fed) and at a body condition score of 4/9 instead of 6/9 was shown to induce arthritis something like 3 years later. That's a pretty good indication to me not to feed too many calories (plus it just makes sense).


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Super information everybody...thanks for the information..great thread...TomCat


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Sorry, was momentarily distracted by the new grain free diet by Hill's.  Anyways, the article is pretty old and we now know that calories definitely does make a difference in the development of developmental joint disease. The big Purina study where they fed one cohort of pups from a litter 25% less Purina Dog Chow (in other words, not free fed) and at a body condition score of 4/9 instead of 6/9 was shown to induce arthritis something like 3 years later. That's a pretty good indication to me not to feed too many calories (plus it just makes sense).


I think the article is consistent with the purina study, but does in the context of total caloric intake not densite per the acutal food though as you say obviously more nutrients in more of a low calorie food than less of a high calorie food assuming you make the total calories the same...Guess I will look more into the calcium food. The food I am feeding though is not that different in either composition or price than the adult formula.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Remember these ARE animals...the nutrition doctors haven't put labels on livestock or wild animal crap...something many dog DO EAT! It is largely about the great DOLLAR! \\/


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