# Talking Cards



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Have you ever gotten worked up over something and thought it was too hard to train? I did that with attention heeling.  

Now I'm off to conquer another dream - talking cards. The behavior is to give a dog a plastic card with information on it. The dog delivers it to the nearest stranger.

I've had situations when I was unable to stand or speak. My card states to NOT call for medical help and that with my meds I'll be fine in about 20 minutes.

I'm using an old drivers license to train with. Jet is taking the card and holding it in a full bite - but not damaging the card. (That's the hardest part!!) 

I am looking forward to developing this behavior. I'll have more confidence leaving home on a bad day if I know my dog can deliver messages to people so they don't try to help and make it worse.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Why?
If you're going to be fine in 20 minutes, why do anything? 
I doubt if many people are going to rush up to "help" someone sitting there with a French Poodle in their lap. Get a laminated card with instructions on what to do and put it around your neck. IF someone comes up offering help you show them the card and leave the dog out of it. I'm having a hard time figuring why you don't let the dog be a dog and a companion and keep trying to train them to do all these silly
"service dog" tricks?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

A medic-alert-type bracelet or other item worn by you sounds much better to me, Anne.

I'm thinking you are starting to way over-complicate and over-think the possible scenario. 

The dog can stay with you and be a source of comfort rather than accosting a stranger who may not have any awareness of or interest in your situation.

JMO! Just a view from outside the situation.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Brilliant minds think alike Connie


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Brilliant "OLDER" minds think alike Connie


:razz:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Where the heck are those slapping gloves .... 

_
.... mutter mutter ...._








:lol:


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Doug Zaga said:


> :razz:


Doug,

As long as I don't think I'm old...........I'm not


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Where the heck are those slapping gloves ....
> 
> _
> .... mutter mutter ...._
> ...


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Where the heck are those slapping gloves ....
> 
> 
> _.... mutter mutter ...._
> ...


Do you mean Sap gloves?


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

If you saw a woman collapse on the floor in a grocery store, nonverbal and nonresponsive, and a little service dog starts going nuts pawing at her trying to solicit a response, you wouldn't be concerned?

I've had situations with "good samaritans" that were unsettling at best. This is a way to let a good samaritan know everything is OK even when I look so unwell. It doesn't rely on me being functional. I've considered a medical alert bracelet, but not ready to do it yet.


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Anne Vaini said:


> I've considered a medical alert bracelet, but not ready to do it yet.


Hmmm... That seems to me to be the best, safest, most reliable option... But that is your call I guess....


But the picture you just painted is NOT the picture that we got reading your OP.

In the new scenario that you provide, I would guess that many would NOT look at the dog, but at the woman on the floor and try shooing the dog away. I think that if the dog has a harness on, with a card attached to the top of it that states the same info (and most would see the note to NOT call rescue, especially if the event went on for 20 minutes, and still do so anyway...) that it would be more likely to catch someones attention. 

Sounds like you have a lot of behaviors you want the dog to do in a situation. Paw at you to elicit a response, find and take into the mouth a card (where would this card be?) and to go to a stranger and elicit THEIR attention, and to "deliver" the card to the strangers hand.... And what if there is not a stranger around? Do you want the dog to leave you and find one or stay with you to do what ever it is you need the dog to do?


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

And fools seldom differ! Just sayin!


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

no store is going to let you lay there for 20 min. and not call 911, they have legal liabilities that they have to cover to cover there ass. a few weeks ago a dog was shot by police to let 911 get to a person, if your out of it then you have no say and you dog becomes a liability to 911


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Denise King said:


> And fools seldom differ! Just sayin!



Calling a moderator a fool usually isn't a smart thing to do. Just sayin !


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> If you saw a woman collapse on the floor in a grocery store, nonverbal and nonresponsive, and a little service dog starts going nuts pawing at her trying to solicit a response, you wouldn't be concerned?


Not what your first post sounded like to me.

JMO .... I do think that readily seen information is a safer and better route.

With nothing required of the dog.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Connie - Yeah, I started with best-case scenario, but after Thomas's comment about "silly tricks" clearly not understanding the whole disability aspect I gave a worst-case scenario too. 

When I'm having these attacks, I can't walk, stand, talk, _but I can write_. I would be able to give my dog a card. 

Jessica - I'm not sending my dog off to find help (some people train that using talking cards). I want to train him to deliver the talking card to a person who is initiating contact so that they don't call EMS/911. If nobody is around he should do his job - active alert to elicit response and/or deep pressure therapy. If somebody is concerned and going to initiate contact, I want him to deliver the card - his cue will be me giving him the card.

Jessica and Gerald - My dog has a emergency kit in his vest, which is clearly marked. It has ID for me and my dog, my Dr's, diagnoses, medications, emergency contacts. He is training to let random strangers handle his vest and get out the emergency kit.

I hope this all makes sense. The more skills my dog has and the more safety measures I take, the better I do. I could give the card to a person, I could have my dog give it, I have emergency kit anyone can get to in my dog's vest, and I probably should get that medical alert bracelet (ick :/ ). Preparation gives me confidence. For example, I keep a hospital bag packed all the time. Never know when I'll end up in the hospital next! :

I was talking to a friend of mine that is a trainer today. He suggested taking the hand target and shaping it into targeting other people's hands. At the same time, develop the hold/carry. Then put it all together. I am really excited about training this because I can apply it different ways. For instance, if I'm in bed my dog can deliver a message to my fiance. Or send him to deliver a message to a neighbor who is one of my emergency support people. I can use it in my dog's nursing home therapy dog visits by having him deliver something to residents to brighten their day.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

As a paramedic, I would recommend you get a bracelet, necklace, or a type of easy to access info card. 

We get calls to things you wouldn't believe, and adding a dog to perform this task may very well get the dog kicked. If you have a high stress situation (for onlookers) you know people completely over react. The last thing most of them will be doing is paying any attention to a poodle running up to them. 
Maybe add "see dog's vest" to the medic alert bracelet. Then have the card or medical history and instructions in there, but I still bet 911 is called. 
I will also add that if something is seriously wrong, a bystander is not going to know the difference in you being unable to talk or seriously being unresponsive. So if you were to have a cardiac issue, stroke, allergic reaction, etc, you may lay right there and die and people are waiting for twenty minutes that could have saved your life. We can always be cancelled, and can get your info and decide if you need treatment or if it is an episode and wait with you. 

I think its great to train your dog as a service dog. They can be extremely beneficial.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Listen to the paramedic.

In your last post you said that you can hand the card to a person, so there is no reason to hand it to the dog who then has to hand it to the person you could have just as easily handed it to in the first place. I would think if the situation arose, handling the situation in the easiest, and most direct manner possible would be most important, which would be you handing the card to a person. Taking an extra step of you handing it to the dog then the dog is supposed to hand it off again is just wasted energy and not effective either, since in the situation of seeing someone fall out, not many people are going to be paying attention to what the dog has in it's mouth. 

If you want to teach your dog to hand things to people in nursing homes or where ever, that would be really cool.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

julie allen said:


> As a paramedic, I would recommend you get a bracelet, necklace, or a type of easy to access info card.
> 
> We get calls to things you wouldn't believe, and adding a dog to perform this task may very well get the dog kicked. If you have a high stress situation (for onlookers) you know people completely over react. The last thing most of them will be doing is paying any attention to a poodle running up to them.
> Maybe add "see dog's vest" to the medic alert bracelet. Then have the card or medical history and instructions in there, but I still bet 911 is called.
> ...


I was realizing that with all the meds I'm on (!!!!!), I really should be wearing something. I ordered a bracelet that reads "Panic Disorder - Bipolar Disorder" "Do Not Separate from Service Dog" and "Emergency information is located in wallet and in Service Dog's vest"


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> Connie - Yeah, I started with best-case scenario, but after Thomas's comment about "silly tricks" clearly not understanding the whole disability aspect I gave a worst-case scenario too.
> 
> I'd advise anyone who doubts that they are "silly tricks" to search for the previous topics you've started and what you wanted to "train" your dogs to do before. The fact is a medical bracelet would be a LOT more effective and simpler to use.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Anne Vaini said:


> If you saw a woman collapse on the floor in a grocery store, nonverbal and nonresponsive, and a little service dog starts going nuts pawing at her trying to solicit a response, you wouldn't be concerned?
> 
> I've had situations with "good samaritans" that were unsettling at best. This is a way to let a good samaritan know everything is OK even when I look so unwell. It doesn't rely on me being functional. I've considered a medical alert bracelet, but not ready to do it yet.


 
If that is a possibility you should only go out with a human escort who can make sure you take your meds and you do recover. A collapsed person, non responsive requires medical assistance and as a business owner I wouldn't care what card the little dog delivered. 

T


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Anne Vaini said:
> 
> 
> > Connie - Yeah, I started with best-case scenario, but after Thomas's comment about "silly tricks" clearly not understanding the whole disability aspect I gave a worst-case scenario too.
> ...


I have not been able to find a piece of jewelry with therapeutic effects. Training a dog tasks that help keep a person alive and intact is not silly. I'm dealing with issues that make retrieving dropped items (a mobility dog task) look like child's play. 

I fight to stay alive. I take about a dozen pills a day, see doctors and therapists. Who are _you_ to tell me what my dog can or cannot do for therapeutic effect?! Please keep your disrespect out of my threads.


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

I didn't call ANYONE a fool, it is the second part of that old saying."brilliant minds think alike but fools seldom differ". No offense was meant but this seems to be a closed little club. Count me out and please remove me from the membership list.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> I have not been able to find a piece of jewelry with therapeutic effects. Training a dog tasks that help keep a person alive and intact is not silly. I'm dealing with issues that make retrieving dropped items (a mobility dog task) look like child's play.
> 
> I fight to stay alive. I take about a dozen pills a day, see doctors and therapists. Who are _you_ to tell me what my dog can or cannot do for therapeutic effect?! Please keep your disrespect out of my threads.


Anne

This is a working dog forum not a Therapy Group. You've gone from wanting to teach a dog to give people a card saying "leave me alone I'll be alright in 20 minutes" to a scenario where you collapse in a grocery store to now claiming your issues are life threatening.
You've got a cute mini poodle for companionship. He will never be a substitute for drugs and professional help and therapy. Do you and your dog a favor and let your dog be a dog. What ever happened to your boyfriend/fiances dog that you were training?


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Anne
> 
> This is a working dog forum not a Therapy Group. You've gone from wanting to teach a dog to give people a card saying "leave me alone I'll be alright in 20 minutes" to a scenario where you collapse in a grocery store to now claiming your issues are life threatening.
> You've got a cute mini poodle for companionship. He will never be a substitute for drugs and professional help and therapy. Do you and your dog a favor and let your dog be a dog. What ever happened to your boyfriend/fiances dog that you were training?


Hunter finally made peace.  He solicits attention and play from me, some days will even come up onto the couch to cuddle with me. He minds me for his very basic obedience, and doesn't growl at me when I trip over him at night. I have accidentally taught him to be a little neurotic about the pantry door opening - that's where I store toys and treats. And he has gained 5 pounds from the treats from me. :lol:

I have multiple disabiliting conditions. This thread was only intended to be about one of them which is distressing but not life threatening. It looks worse than it is. Which is why I want to be left alone while it passes. Which is why I feel a need for multiple ways of communicating this.

A service dog never replaces medical treatment, it is an additional aid. Here is a good explanation of service dog tasks for psychiatric disabilities. http://www.iaadp.org/psd_tasks.html 

I didn't come here for "therapy" but for feedback on training a WORKING dog a new skill. I got some good input from julie. (thank you) I have a sense that if I was training a different discipline of service dog (visual, hearing, mobility), that the thread wouldn't be derailed. Actually... no, I KNOW that since I have posted about training mobility service dog on this forum.

So would you all please quit obsessing about pyschiatric disabilities on this and future threads, and focus on the dog training part.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

I think teaching the dog to give someone a card, like a debit or credit card is great.
I just know how bystanders react in situations, and I wouldn't rely on them taking info from the dog then. 

I've seen a guy kick, choke and throw a puppy because it got too close to meemaw who fell out of her motorized wheelchair coming back from the liquor store on her own porch. Granted this wasnt a service dog, but it was chained so close to the porch it had nowhere to go. People are stupid. After a heated argument, he ended up fined and the dog taken, the officer there happened to like dogs. 

I would hate to see your dog punished for doing what he was trained to do.
I have also seen a woman training her dog to protect her if she becomes unresponsive. Bad idea, as we know what will happen when LE and the medics can't get to her due to an aggressive dog. We don't have animal control officers around here.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

If you are able to give the card directly to people I think that would be the best idea. I doubt if people would take a card from a dog seriously, especially a business owner who may have their duty of care called into question, if something bad happens to you. 

I dont really know what your condition involves but there must be other things that you can train your dog to do as a service dog. Poodles are smart little dogs.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

You guys are right about a service dog needing to allow EMS/first responders. I think I alluded to that I'm going to be making sure he lets people get into his vest. There's a couple things that I train for those situations based on my and my friends' experiences with EMS, police etc.

He has enough tasks/skills already as far as legal definition of service animal. They need developing, of course. I guess if I'm completely honest with myself, this one is mostly for the joy of training, and for the confidence of plan b, and plan c, and plan d.... 

You've given me some things to think about as far as stupid / unpredictable people. I think I will have to train it and start testing it to see what I can expect and feasibility.

Yes, I could hand a card over, but one of the things I'm working on is teaching him to create physical space around me. As I'm imagining it playing out in my head it would create some of that barrier. 

He just loves having that card in his mouth. Wierdest thing ever. I am teaching him to hold a cell phone in his mouth. He was motivated by getting the card back. He didn't want treats or to play. :roll:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Where the heck are those slapping gloves ....
> 
> _
> .... mutter mutter ...._
> :lol:



is that Peter, or his dog "muttering" in the background while the slapping is going on?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

julie allen said:


> I think teaching the dog to give someone a card, like a debit or credit card is great.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Julie,
> ...


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> julie allen said:
> 
> 
> > I think teaching the dog to give someone a card, like a debit or credit card is great.
> ...


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Anne,
i can't comment on the training aspect, but I think realistically do you think ANYBODY is going to listen to whats on the card? I am L.E, and no matter what your dog tries to tell me, I am caling medics, and I think most reasonable people would, based on the scenario you have described. If you can't talk, someone else (human) is going to do the talking for you. As Julie said, what harm in having medics come? You dont have to go with them. 
I am not saying its not a good idea, but be realistic. You can probably train it, but will anybody listen?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Anne: Upon further consideration, I think if training this behavior gives you another layer of security, that allows you more independence, makes you feel more comfortable when out and about amongst the general public, then I say go for it. I think it's great that you are proactively working to find ways to navigate the world in your new "normal". Sure beats curling up in the fetal position and giving up. I have a feeling this is more about confidence derived from having options, than having the dog actually perform the behavior.

You go girl!
8)


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Anne Vaini said:


> You've given me some things to think about as far as stupid / unpredictable people. I think I will have to train it and start testing it to see what I can expect and feasibility.
> 
> Yes, I could hand a card over, but one of the things I'm working on is teaching him to create physical space around me. As I'm imagining it playing out in my head it would create some of that barrier.


Also take note that people dont know your situation, it may not be down to stupidity or unpredictability, it may be out of concern or legal responsibility. A paramedic for instance who is doing their job may see your little dog trying to keep space around you as a problem as people have mentioned. Many people may not be inclined to leave a person who they perceive may be in medical trouble. You may be putting your dog in danger without needing to. 

To me it seems slightly illogical the way you are thinking on this, given that many people may not understand what your dog is trying to do in the scenario that you may be familiar with but most strangers wont be.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"So would you all please quit obsessing about pyschiatric disabilities on this and future threads, and focus on the dog training part."_

And ignore the problems for the dog (and you) in the plans you present?

You don't want that.

"Making space around you" .... to anyone seeing you in trouble, the dog trying to maintain "space" around you is going to be an obstacle to be removed or immobilized. 

If you stop and think, looking at such a situation with the eyes of bystanders (professional or not), I know you can see this.



Sara Waters said:


> .... Many people may not be inclined to leave a person who they perceive may be in medical trouble. You may be putting your dog in danger without needing to.
> 
> To me it seems slightly illogical the way you are thinking on this, given that many *people may not understand what your dog is trying to do in the scenario that you may be familiar with but most strangers wont be*.


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## Craig Snyder (May 7, 2012)

Anne,

I've been lurking for a week waiting for my account to be approved. Finally! 

But I've been reading your post with interest. Like the medic and LE folks I encourage you to use the medi-alert bracelets. Been doing EMS response for over35 years now. 

If your poodle is your service dog and you experience the problems you indicate, I would like to suggest you train your dog to respond to finger commands. You indicate that you can write during these episodes. So I assume you can at least move your fingers. 

Having control over your dog even when lying on the floor could greatly help you as well as protect your dog. As already mentioned, if you are on the floor, or maybe non-responsive in your car, (don’t' know if you're allowed to drive but think drive-thru, public lot, etc), EMS and/or LE will be called most likely. 

Controlling your dog with finger movements will not only help protect your dog and you, but will let EMS know you have a way to communicate. I'd suggest training a down command first as well as the sit command. Repeatedly having the dog sit and lie down in the presence of LE or EMS as they are first arriving should clue them in that you can control the dog and communicate. 

Getting the dog to focus on your hand/fingers as her primary soruce of direction shouldn't be to difficult. But you have to practice this in many situations and in many different postures/angles so the dog understands the commands from any direction/posture.

Once EMS is present, with another finger command you can get the dog to indicate your medi-alert bracelet or necklace with repeated paw touches or nose touches.

I'd also recommend learning a few simple sign language commands, at least the 24 ones needed to spell. Some EMS may understand them.

Craig


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

I sure hope you didn't drive to the store!


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

also remember not all people are "dog people". They may not want, or feel comfortable, interacting with a dog.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Anne: Upon further consideration, I think if training this behavior gives you another layer of security, that allows you more independence, makes you feel more comfortable when out and about amongst the general public, then I say go for it. I think it's great that you are proactively working to find ways to navigate the world in your new "normal". Sure beats curling up in the fetal position and giving up. I have a feeling this is more about confidence derived from having options, than having the dog actually perform the behavior.
> 
> You go girl!
> 8)


You got it.  I might never use it, but if knowing it is available prevents me from becoming homebound again then it is still worth it.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Craig Snyder said:


> Anne,
> 
> I've been lurking for a week waiting for my account to be approved. Finally!
> 
> ...


This is very smart. I had never come across this thinking before about demonsrating control of the dog. Sounds like I need to learn a little ASL?  Thank you!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Connie,

I am not completely confident about training the "personal bubble" because of the reason you brought up. I've seen it done a couple ways. The only way that I know will not work is teach the dog to circle around the handler.

I told my SD clients to make friends with EMS. Get to know them and get them to know your dog. It has worked nicely for those that deal with it a lot.

If I did a down command on a finger cue, that should prevent a problem in the event of getting help?
If It only did personal space while I am standing, that might be clearly defined to the dog that if I'm standing or wallking, other people don't get too close, but if I'm sitting or laying then anyone can approach?

I could skip training the personal bubble and look for other ways of coping.


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## Craig Snyder (May 7, 2012)

Anne,

I would not use ASL for the dog. Only to interact with people.

Also, if you go that route for the dog I would suggest an attention or alert command that would always preceed the actual command for the dog. This would prevent you from giving unintentional commands to the dog during the normal course of the day resulting in confusion for the dog.

For instance, use a fully closed fist or a fully spread hand before giving the actual command. 

For example:

FIST followed immediately by "one" finger = sit.
FIST followed immediately by "two" fingers = down
FIST followed immediately by "three" fingers = speak
FIST followed immediately by "four" fingers = paw my medi-alert bracelet.

You can practically invent an unlimited number of finger commands using combinations of different fingers. If you need more, introduce a second "alert " command like 5 fingers spread folowed by one finger.

I would not use the traditional hand signals normally used with dogs, (raised palm for down, palm pointing down facing dog for stay). It might be difficult to use these if you are on the ground in a worst case scenario or otherwise not oriented to the dog properly.

Besides.. I've always found people are really impressed when you can control your dog with just hand signals and body movements. Think how cool it would be to be able to use subtle finger commands!

But it takes quite a bit of work and consistent training. A great challenge!

Craig


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## Craig Snyder (May 7, 2012)

Anne Vaini said:


> Connie,
> 
> I am not completely confident about training the "personal bubble" because of the reason you brought up. I've seen it done a couple ways. The only way that I know will not work is teach the dog to circle around the handler.


I would discourage training a dog to provide a personal bubble. In emergency conditions the dog might easily escalte this to protection. Plus LE and EMS will be leery of a circling dog. Better to train the dog to sit tight or lie down next to you. And I mean tight...up against, leaning, right alongside. Train to body contact regardless of your position or obstacles. That alone will give you a certain amount of personal space from the general public. Practice on benches and have them climb right up next to you in these emergency situations. Teach a finger cued "bench" command. We taught a bench command for our dogs so when we get ready to leave our local park we say bench and the dogs go and sit on the indicated bench and wait for us to attach their leashes for the walk home. Now we can just point to a bench. Saves the back!



Anne Vaini said:


> If I did a down command on a finger cue, that should prevent a problem in the event of getting help?


It should help greatly especially if you travel with a service vest on the dog and the dog is clearly under control. Most (not all!) LE and EMS personnel are familar with service dogs and as long as the dog is lying down, clearly marked and under control, they more than likely will not try to remove them unless they feel you are in danger. I think finger control of the dog would demonstrate all of that to EMS/LE.

Nothing beats a visit with your local EMS providers. Most dispatch centers today will record any special info about disabilities or hazards at your house in their databases. In really rural areas, with EMS that don't have high call volumes, you might even get them to post a picture of you and your service dog in the ambulance or headquarters so their peronnel become familair before hand. If you are comfortable with that.

Craig


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## mike finn (Jan 5, 2011)

susan tuck said:


> Anne: Upon further consideration, I think if training this behavior gives you another layer of security, that allows you more independence, makes you feel more comfortable when out and about amongst the general public, then I say go for it. I think it's great that you are proactively working to find ways to navigate the world in your new "normal". Sure beats curling up in the fetal position and giving up. I have a feeling this is more about confidence derived from having options, than having the dog actually perform the behavior.
> 
> You go girl!
> 8)


Good post!


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Anne, Craig gives some good practical advice. Will give you plenty to work on and help keep you both safe.

Try and look at it from the perspective of what other people are seeing, especially those who may not be familiar with dogs and also medics that may be called to the scene when you suffer from a debilitating episode and factor that in to your training.

You certainly dont want to be separated from your dog and as Craig suggests you need to be in control of your dog at all times if you can be. This will probably allay peoples fears. If you are lying on the ground you do need your dog to allow people to approach and perhaps you could signal this to your dog.

You might need to discuss this with people familiar with these scenarios so you get the best advice as to what you need to work on and what is appropriate for these situations.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I was reflecting upon this more and realizing that my scariest moments were when I did not have my dog with. The dog's presence has a theraputic effect. It's not a legal task. You can compare it to talking to a friend on the phone to distract you while you're doing something overwhelming or emotionally difficult. If you're focused on training the dog, you are less able to observe or focus on whatever the distressing thing is. I can modify my worst-case scenario to a less-bad worst-case-with-dog scenario.

As far as training to be close, our deep pressure therapy (DPT) would double. The therapeutic effect is immediate, but unfortunately proportional to the amount of weight. It takes about 40 pounds of pressure for effect and I was concerned if my little dog would be able do this for me. He braces and really pushes into me, applying more force than his little 15 pounds It's less effective than, say, having a person do it, but more effective than my fast-acting med. I was reminded of this by the bench training comment. When I was in college, I started the semester without my disability paperwork in order, and it was a while before I had accomodations on campus. There was a hall with benches. I would lay on a bench and have my dog (a lab then) on my chest for deep pressure therapy before classes. My scores jumped 15%. I think it's a nice example of how something that appears so simple can have a strong therapeutic effect.

In reality, my dog should have enough experience to begin DBT without verbal cue. If he does that, I can be verbal again in about 30 seconds and be able to walk in about 5 minutes. I am so fortunate that DPT is effective for me. This making the talking card concept even less likely to be used - but still fun to train.  It can be applied other ways, it won't be wasted training time. 

But, I have to put this training project on hold for a while. My dog nearly drowned today in the lake. I took off my pants and swam out to get him! We live on the lakes and go dock diving almost every day. He's gotta learn to swim.

I love the finger cues ideas - I'll start a new thread on that when I'm ready to get help on deciding exactly how to execute it and relate training challenges and (hopefully) successes. I love this forum - never know what you are going to get! That idea is a gem, and getting insight from paramedics and LEO is very helpful too.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

What Susan said if the dog gives you the feeling of security but I'd still go with the bracelet.
My daughter is an ASL interpreter. She taught one of her dogs to read sign just for basic commands but she shortened a lot of it for the sake of training. I'm with Craig on teaching simple hand obedience. As you know, dogs are much more in tune with our body language then or verbalizations. STILL look into the health alert bracelets.:wink:


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> What Susan said if the dog gives you the feeling of security but I'd still go with the bracelet.
> My daughter is an ASL interpreter. She taught one of her dogs to read sign just for basic commands but she shortened a lot of it for the sake of training. I'm with Craig on teaching simple hand obedience. As you know, dogs are much more in tune with our body language then or verbalizations. STILL look into the health alert bracelets.:wink:


I did order a medical alert bracelet, thanks to you guys. And I like the idea of teaching the dog to "point" the medical alert bracelet.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne,

I guess I still don't get why your trying to involve the dog at all?
If you're functional enough during one of these episodes to hand a card to the dog to take to a stranger? Why not just hand the card directly to the human? IF the dogs main purpose is as a companion and for emotional or tactile reinforcement? Just let the dog do that and don't over complicate the situation by requiring a long chain of behaviors that are likely to break.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Anne,
> 
> I guess I still don't get why your trying to involve the dog at all?
> If you're functional enough during one of these episodes to hand a card to the dog to take to a stranger? Why not just hand the card directly to the human? IF the dogs main purpose is as a companion and for emotional or tactile reinforcement? Just let the dog do that and don't over complicate the situation by requiring a long chain of behaviors that are likely to break.


I think it gets back to giving Anne a feeling of security and maintains her interest in dog training which can be therapy in itself. In a situation that Anne describes most humans are going to do what humans will do regardless of what the dog is doing. The majority of people will see a medic alert bracelet without a dog pointing to it. However the dog may in some situations be back up and gives Anne a feeling of added security, and if Anne is taking the dog out in public with her and she has an episode then at least it is best that the dog is under her control and not just randomly running around. Safer for everyone and particularly the dog.

I think it is very hard to put ones self in Annes situation because through no fault of her own she does have a sometimes disabling condition and it is somewhat hard to imagine what it is like or what headspace she finds herself in. So if working with the dog is helpful, as Susan says she needs to go with that as best she can.


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

maybe one of the Yahoo groups could provide some guidance:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assistance-dogs/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OC-Assist-Dogs/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assistance-dogs/

they all look pretty active...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sara Waters said:


> I think it gets back to giving Anne a feeling of security and maintains her interest in dog training which can be therapy in itself. In a situation that Anne describes most humans are going to do what humans will do regardless of what the dog is doing. The majority of people will see a medic alert bracelet without a dog pointing to it. However the dog may in some situations be back up and gives Anne a feeling of added security, and if Anne is taking the dog out in public with her and she has an episode then at least it is best that the dog is under her control and not just randomly running around. Safer for everyone and particularly the dog.
> 
> I think it is very hard to put ones self in Annes situation because through no fault of her own she does have a sometimes disabling condition and it is somewhat hard to imagine what it is like or what headspace she finds herself in. So if working with the dog is helpful, as Susan says she needs to go with that as best she can.



Well said!


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