# Finally get to use the field



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Here is some work that we did Sunday. I am having all kinds of emotional problems with imovie for some reason. Good grief. Just wouldn't import.

Esko bite work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCvhxXeD_Iw

Esko early work on object guard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkvv8oHrFSI

Esko working the hurdle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFEYLn-ak5M


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Esko working the hurdle
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFEYLn-ak5M


I like all of them, but I'm wondering with the people in the background..why don't you get them to help with the place like Martine does ?? Those people have like 4 people involved in helping the dog to know where he's supposed to be.

Not criticising, just asking.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It was day one on the new field, and I was showing them what we had been doing. It was also day one of putting the boxes together with the jump, so I knew it would be ugly on the way back. He was pretty sure I threw the ball. 

Until it rained the other day, that sand was fluffy and like walking in a beach and the ball just stuck where it landed. Poof. No rolling. He is an idiot, and I have thrown the ball many times and had him have no idea where it went, so he has to look for it.

The plan is to have people at the boxes. When I am explaining what I have done, I miss the very very obvious.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nice, thanks for sharing...


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Like the vids Jeff, Esko is looking like a very nice dog indeed....I noticed you had were in the sun, that sooooo isnt right, we havent had snow in 30 years only to be on snowoverload here right now...wanna send some sun our way ?

keep the vids coming


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Looking good, good full bite on the leg and like how he started to wrap his legs around it in the end. I like a dog that throws his paws up and or wraps his legs around the opponent shows me hes confident in his bite.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

I like Esko, he's grown from a good looking pup into a good looking dog. And he keeps such a decent attitude while that big guy confuses him about new stuff he's supposed to lay on.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> I like a dog that throws his paws up and or wraps his legs around the opponent shows me hes confident in his bite.


This is true Harry I like it too, it shows the dog is strong in his head and confident as you say. But if you let the dog get into the habit of always leg wrapping, the technique quality of the bite can suffer especially on leg bite entries. My pup Phin is very confident as well and is a leg wrapper but he would get so hung up on holding on to the decoy with his legs his grips suffered. We had to totally change the way we work him to concentrate more on the grips themselves. 

This is my furry crocodile last weekend, he is with my training director Fred for the next month while I recover from my surgery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woN9DGnHVXk&feature=recentlik


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Esko bite work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCvhxXeD_Iw


What are you using for a bungee here Jeff? I like it.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> This is true Harry I like it too, it shows the dog is strong in his head and confident as you say. But if you let the dog get into the habit of always leg wrapping, the technique quality of the bite can suffer especially on leg bite entries. My pup Phin is very confident as well and is a leg wrapper but he would get so hung up on holding on to the decoy with his legs his grips suffered. We had to totally change the way we work him to concentrate more on the grips themselves.
> 
> This is my furry crocodile last weekend, he is with my training director Fred for the next month while I recover from my surgery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woN9DGnHVXk&feature=recentlik


I can see that happening Geoff, but I am looking at it from a NON sport point of view, I prefer confidence with a bite over the dog not feeling 100% confident in the bite with a full bite. Nerves, confidence and enviromental stimulus is what I key in on above all else. But I do agree and understand where your coming from as well. I don't mean I like a pincher I still prefer 2/3 or better in the bite at the least to work with. Grips can always be polished up.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> I can see that happening Geoff, but I am looking at it from a NON sport point of view, I prefer confidence with a bite over the dog not feeling 100% confident in the bite with a full bite. Nerves, confidence and enviromental stimulus is what I key in on above all else. But I do agree and understand where your coming from as well. I don't mean I like a pincher I still prefer 2/3 or better in the bite at the least to work with. Grips can always be polished up.


For sure Harry grips are always being worked upon with the people I work with, above all other basic technique with the decoy. So it is a never ending cycle of polishing grips, in every bite exercise. \\/ Which is why we use bungee and slow drags with tension always always when the dog is biting, that way the dog gets very little chance to generate bad grip technique, which is very important in FR for both the safety of the dogs and the decoys. 

To me if the dog is confident and not worried about his/her grip it is one less thing for the dog to get unconfident about especially in times where there is lots of outside environmental stimulus. This is where our friends in NVBK shine as they are the experts in this type of training. My TD takes a lot of those cues from the NVBK and incorporates it into our club's pups foundation training. As it just builds stronger dogs if the genetics are there in the first place.


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Geoff,
I do not do Ring (as you will see by my question), but I had a question to why you would
have your dog come back for a bite on your arm. I lot of people say that Ring is more serious, so
it would seem to me that having a dog come back to you for a bite on the arm would be
counter productive. Either it is a toy (the bite on the arm) and therefor your dog would bite
only the sleeve, or if he will bite for real then he might bite handler?
Anita 8)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Anita, the dogs are not going to come after the handler because you gave them a bite on a sleeve. 

Quote: What are you using for a bungee here Jeff? I like it.

I do not need the dog to run full speed. I figure he is fast enough, this will make him faster, and with less chance of mistakes. We hadn't done bite work since July, so if he decided to do something stupid, he would fly off the bite. 

When we are done with him, he is going to be really fast and really strong.


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Anita, the dogs are not going to come after the handler because you gave them a bite on a sleeve.
> 
> So the dog isn't in serious drive to the sleeve. You don't think that would imprint the wrong drives?
> Is Ring more prey drive then?
> Anita


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Anita Griffing said:


> Jeff Oehlsen said:
> 
> 
> > Anita, the dogs are not going to come after the handler because you gave them a bite on a sleeve.
> ...


What????????
What is serious drive?
Is ring more prey drive than what???
How can you imprint a wrong drive by taking a sleeve bite from your own dog?

this doesn't make any sense to me, please explain what you are saying and asking....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: So the dog isn't in serious drive to the sleeve. You don't think that would imprint the wrong drives?
Is Ring more prey drive then?

Why would a dog be serious about a reward bite ? 

Does a dog need to be serious to work well in sport ?

Do you think that a dog should not be able to tell the difference ?

Is prey drive any less than any other drive like say defense ? And to go on from that, how many times does a dog have to do something before they figure out that they are not in mortal danger ? AND if a dog always thought he was in danger, how long would he be under control in a trial, and how long would he be able to compete before he ran off the field from stress ?


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

He is getting big Jeff, nice job, training coming along well
you'll have him there in no time


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> For sure Harry grips are always being worked upon with the people I work with, above all other basic technique with the decoy. So it is a never ending cycle of polishing grips, in every bite exercise. \\/ Which is why we use bungee and slow drags with tension always always when the dog is biting, that way the dog gets very little chance to generate bad grip technique, which is very important in FR for both the safety of the dogs and the decoys.
> 
> To me if the dog is confident and not worried about his/her grip it is one less thing for the dog to get unconfident about especially in times where there is lots of outside environmental stimulus. This is where our friends in NVBK shine as they are the experts in this type of training. My TD takes a lot of those cues from the NVBK and incorporates it into our club's pups foundation training. As it just builds stronger dogs if the genetics are there in the first place.


I concur


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Anita Griffing said:


> Jeff Oehlsen said:
> 
> 
> > Anita, the dogs are not going to come after the handler because you gave them a bite on a sleeve.
> ...


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: What are you using for a bungee here Jeff? I like it.
> 
> I do not need the dog to run full speed. I figure he is fast enough, this will make him faster, and with less chance of mistakes. We hadn't done bite work since July, so if he decided to do something stupid, he would fly off the bite.
> 
> When we are done with him, he is going to be really fast and really strong.


Oh I understand why you are using it  .. would like to know the materials you used that's all. The bungee horse trailer ties I bought are self destructing and I need something more reliable. So looking for ideas for new material.


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Hmmm....wow, ok. Thanks for that explanation. I appreciate you taking the time. 
Anita


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Anita Griffing said:


> Hmmm....wow, ok. Thanks for that explanation. I appreciate you taking the time.
> Anita


Anita, how can someone answer when the question is unclear?
what is the question?


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Interesting. I have never watched anyone "train" the guard. Seeing the object pulled, so the dog has to move to stay over it, was not expected. How do you start off teaching him to stay on it? Just a down stay at first and reward for staying? 

I'd like to try, but will be by myself, since no ring club is close enough for my gas hog Ford.


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Jody,
I am sorry I was unclear. What would you like to know? 
Anita


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Anita Griffing said:


> Jody,
> I am sorry I was unclear. What would you like to know?
> Anita


 
It's JoBy, I am Jody and haven't replied to any of this LOL


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Sorry I should have had my reading glasses on. Just when I think
I don't really need them. 

Joby,
What would you like to know? 
Anita


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Geoff, I got that while I was in Cali. It was one of those big surplus supply houses with all kinds of little gadgets and what nots.

There was a surplus store in Colorado that I was able to buy different size bungee by the foot. If you need some, I can probably get a friend to pick some up for you. Kind of a drive for either of us. LOL


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## Kara Fitzpatrick (Dec 2, 2009)

awesome, thanks for posting the vids.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Anita Griffing said:


> Sorry I should have had my reading glasses on. Just when I think
> I don't really need them.
> 
> Joby,
> ...


Anita
I was trying to figure out what YOU wanted to know...LOL. That was all..


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

I think like many people anita assumed that a ring dog is in some form of fight drive not prey so its surprising to her that a dog in fight drive would be biting its owner[-X. In my opinion prey drive is the most comfortable drive for a dog to be in, many police dogs will still bite the sleeve in prey only when there is a real threat will they switch. All the dogs i have decoyed were dogs i would play with after training they never see me as a threat.
Anita i hope this helps a little.


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## Troy Seaton (Sep 4, 2007)

Yo Jeff....Esko is looking good...Best of luck with him and your goals...Happy New Year. TS


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You too Troy ! ! ! Keep working (videoing) those pups of yours, I like watching them as they get older.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Interesting. I have never watched anyone "train" the guard. Seeing the object pulled, so the dog has to move to stay over it, was not expected. How do you start off teaching him to stay on it? Just a down stay at first and reward for staying?

You never see anyone show this stage, because they are either French, who never seem to video much of anything, try looking through pedigrees and then trying to find video. Yuck. Nothing.

I like to video training. Not necessarily great training, but the stuff in the middle, to early when the dog is not at a full understanding. So many people just look at the final product, and have no idea of all the little stuff you need to do to get the dog to be correct. Most people don't want to hear someone else's BS about their training. I could care less, and it gives people an opportunity to see something they have never seen.

I started with him downing when he was ( and is ) still sorta sucking at the down. That is why people need to train the whole ring three routine early. LOL Anyway, I put him on a down and go in a circle, the behavior that I want is him to keep his chest and legs ON the gas can. Before the gas can, I used an archery target covered in duct tape, as it is heavy, and the dog can spin and it doesn't move. The video you saw was the second time he had ever been on the gas can, and the second time it moved from him.


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

\\/Thank you Oluwatobi, that is exactly what I wanted to know.
Anita


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Fun to watch. I've always wondered how they train the dog to stay with the "basket".


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I loved the moving basket work and his ability to do it while focused on the ball. If he can do that with marker training, he can certainly be marker trained for that through and place. Can't wait to se the vid where you've marker trained bite tug and return to basket. I bet the Esko dude can connect the dots.

Terrasita


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You will be sad to find out that he will not be leaving the basket. : )


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Noooooo, the best ones I've seen, doggie didn't leave the basket which is what I alluded to before. That's what's cool about your video---even if the basket takes on a life of its own and tries to leave the dog, doggie must stay with it. He's feeling for it with his feet while maintaining focus on something else. I haven't seen enough of it to know all of the bite scenarios. Given the discussions, it would be interesting to see the OGs where the dog never takes his foot off the basket and how the bite scenarios play out.

T


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Very cool. Thanks for answering. I like to see vids of the basics, not just the finished product. Can't learn much that way, except for what you want, with no way to get there.

Life has been crazy here. No training with the club for awhile. I needed something that looked fun to try. Something I can manage on my own. I always wanted an object guard on my dog. You just peeked my interest again. Too bad the weather sucks too much, to start right now. I think I hear half my shingles, blowing off the roof! :-({|=


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> Oh I understand why you are using it  .. would like to know the materials you used that's all. The bungee horse trailer ties I bought are self destructing and I need something more reliable. So looking for ideas for new material.


Geoff,

Go to a marine supply store. They will sell thick bungee by the foot. I might have some I can send you from the last roll I got, let me know how much you need. 

Tamara McIntosh


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Geoff,
> 
> Go to a marine supply store. They will sell thick bungee by the foot. I might have some I can send you from the last roll I got, let me know how much you need.
> 
> Tamara McIntosh


Thanks there is one in town I'll check out, though Princess Auto looks like they have rolls of industrial bungee http://www.princessauto.com/all-seasons/farm/tarps/accessories/3809803-5/16-bulk-bungee-cord too for a cheap price and I've found a place online that sells 2" tubular webbing to use with my para-quick releases. I had Lynn Cheffins sew me a couple of prototypes and the boys like them so far but I see where I can improve on them. 

I am going to do a 4 way braid and stuff it inside the webbing bunch up the webbing add a ring and the para-clips. Should have something that will work well and last a long time.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

they sell bungee on ebay too...1/2 inch...nice stuff...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-2-...ltDomain_100&hash=item2a0c71f93a#ht_871wt_939


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## Dominique Domogala (Nov 16, 2010)

thx for sharing 


has never seen this way of teaching an object guard .

greets dominique


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

So is your new training ground on some ranchers property? Looks pretty remote and out of the way (the best way to be). How much space do you have cleared?
Looks pretty interesting training in sand.


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