# How would YOU start retrieve



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I've never put a formal finish on a retrieve. I don't really train anything with a front. We're working on it slowly.My dog is a natural retriever, loves it. Attentive, easy to train. Lots of potential for tight obedience. These are my first 2 options. 

Please reply and vote - which one you would do and why?

A - I *could* start with her natural retrieve. Play with the dumbbell. When she returns, "scoop" her head up into a sit, mark and reward by playing with the retrieve. Assuming the rewarded behavior will be repeated, I should get the front. Could be fast and easy. But risky - any problems get rehearsed.

B - I could backchain. Start with placing the dumbell on the ground. Mark for attention to the dumbell. Touch, picking up dumbell. Train the front separately. Then ask for the front while the dog is close and has dumbell. If training is done right, dog should do the front, jackpot! Slow, tedious, easy to make superstition problems, but problems shouldn't have long term impact.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

I am a great believer in backchaining and training bits separately. My dog had a great front on her recall long before we started the dumbell, made things really easy. I dont find back chaining slow and tedious at all.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

back chaining!


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Just like this,
http://www.athosworkingdogs.com/isaclick.wmv


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## Christina Kennedy (Aug 25, 2010)

That depends- does the dog offer to even take and hold the dumbell properly first? That would be the first step. I chose to use marker/clicker training when I shaped it on my puppies. Here is Trauma at a little under 4 1/2 months old http://vimeo.com/9751784

and Lexi (RIP) at 4 months- http://vimeo.com/19063309

Then I continued it by adding motion- I would sit the puppy farther out in front of me, ask them to take the bar, and then allow them to come in tight- all while I was sitting. This takes like 5 minutes to get them used to carrying into a sit from motion. I then start adding more motion. For my babies with gawky bodies, I added motion while sitting because it allowed me to guide them into a straight front. I did not want to worry about being crooked when they could not even run a straight line.

Backchaining was my preference and I prefer it whenever possible....


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

Faisal Khan said:


> Just like this,
> http://www.athosworkingdogs.com/isaclick.wmv



that was nice .... good work!


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Faisal Khan said:


> Just like this,
> http://www.athosworkingdogs.com/isaclick.wmv


Agree.. great video, thanks for posting it.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Forget "A".
Even with a natural retrieve you will have a number of different behaviors to add to it for a "formal" finish. 
IF the dog does have a natural retrieve then all the back chaining will build the formal finish. 
As for the back chaining I would start with the dumbell in my hand, not on the ground. 
Great video posted by Faisal. It's been on here before but definitely one to keep referring to.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

I just went thru this myself-see post about need help with dumbbell and Zak did it. Zak was a natural retriever would comeback to me and place the toy in my hand. He was also formally trained to do a front and a finish (both left and right )on a recall. Zak has an ASCA CD (at eight months) and an AKC CD and Rally novice title (at 13 months) so he has had some training. I thought putting the formal finish on the retrieve would be a snap but I was so wrong. Zak would retrieve on the flat and over the high jump, come to me and stand in front then drop it at my feet. I bought books on open obedience and decided to go back to the basics and start with the hold. Even then I still had trouble with him refusing to hold that dumbbell at a sit until I said out. That is when I joined this site and asked the many wonderul trainers on here for help. I did what they said and in one day he is now retrieving on the flat perfectly! I think breaking everything down until he knew it each part made putting it all together click in his head. I was worried he would end up hating the sight of the dumbbell because I was getting frustrated when he did not get it but now he gets excited when he sees it. Look at the posts this week and you will read some wonderul training ideas from people on this site with a lot of experience gave to me.


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## Natasha Keating (Apr 8, 2010)

B-- backchaining and starting with holding , not picking up
Worked for us!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I start with a tug play retrieve. When I have engagement and a nice out and a semi front I throw a jute wrapped DB in.
Tug, tug ,tug .......then throw the DB once. Usually the dogs are so into the "retrieving" of the tug they've retrieved the DB before they even know it. Then you can either play with the jute wrapped DB or trade for the tug


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Great video posted by Faisal. It's been on here before but definitely one to keep referring to.


I am glad he posted it. I went looking for it recently and couldn't locate it. For some reason the original link I had was dead. Thanks Faisal. Anne if it were me, this is where I'd start as well.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> I am glad he posted it. I went looking for it recently and couldn't locate it. For some reason the original link I had was dead. Thanks Faisal. Anne if it were me, this is where I'd start as well.


Very welcome Nicole, glad to help.


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## Michelle Kutelis (Sep 28, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> I am glad he posted it. I went looking for it recently and couldn't locate it. For some reason the original link I had was dead. Thanks Faisal. Anne if it were me, this is where I'd start as well.


Yep, the original link is dead. However, if they ask me, I will take this one down as well. So if you like it, SAVE IT.  No guarantees it will stay on my server.

My husband's dog's retrieve was trained using that method. You can see how it turns out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-jXvk3cKVA


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Will do. The timing of this is good especially because I recently asked everyone I could think of if they had saved a copy of this video. But no one I knew had. I should have just asked the question here. Interesting to see the similarities between the two videos. Thanks for passing that along.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> I am glad he posted it. I went looking for it recently and couldn't locate it. For some reason the original link I had was dead. Thanks Faisal. Anne if it were me, this is where I'd start as well.


It's still on You Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfW223Wz-08


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

That's good to know also.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

keepvid.com...

you can save any youtube, and some other vids online, in case people didnt know about it.


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