# His Ears Never Went up



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

This dog is bad ass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpA9d_5cD-s&feature=related
Here is the entire routine www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAGEwt3qpAc&NR=1 why the hell do people have to put in this stupid ass music


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Nice video! 

I put in stupid music to cover my foul language usually, or leave it silent


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Nice video!
> 
> I put in stupid music to cover my foul language usually, or leave it silent


There could be no Schutzhund with out foul language the fowler the better I say


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

didn't he get like a 99-100 in the OB? he IS nice! did he bomb the tracking?or where did he end up in the scoring? (please don't tell me he won or i'll have to put the <red face> emoticon on here).


----------



## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Very nice dog


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

ann schnerre said:


> didn't he get like a 99-100 in the OB? he IS nice! did he bomb the tracking?or where did he end up in the scoring? (please don't tell me he won or i'll have to put the <red face> emoticon on here).


His scores were 96, 92, 89, 277 He looks to be a very strong, clear and confident dog my guess is he has very little baggage.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

thanks mike! i knew i saw his OB (i can never figure where they shave those 2-3-4 pts off) vid during the WUSV, then it seemed like he dropped off the radar. 

i personally enjoyed his "almost" defense of handler there a couple of times....but i always do like the "quirks" as long as it's not my idiot dog, LOL.


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Yep they stayed pinned the whole time!


----------



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks for posting! His long attack was awesome flat out and not a bit of brakes i loved it!!


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

brad robert said:


> Thanks for posting! His long attack was awesome flat out and not a bit of brakes i loved it!!


Impressive with a experienced decoy but could be major decoy and/or dog injuries sending him on a noob


----------



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

very true Thomas i can see the possability for serious injury but with a good decoy wow!!

Do you think this decoy was rubbish?I think this was a big event so surely he knew his stuff??

But anyway i still loved it.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

brad robert said:


> very true Thomas i can see the possability for serious injury but with a good decoy wow!!
> 
> Do you think this decoy was rubbish?I think this was a big event so surely he knew his stuff??
> 
> But anyway i still loved it.


Brad,

Reread my post. I said with a NOOB, nothing about serious injury with a good decoy. The decoy in the video did everything right. My point was, with a fast dog with no brakes, you have to be careful who works him. If it were my dog, full field courage tests would be limited.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Brad,
> 
> Reread my post. I said with a NOOB, nothing about serious injury with a good decoy. The decoy in the video did everything right. My point was, with a fast dog with no brakes, you have to be careful who works him. If it were my dog, full field courage tests would be limited.


I almost never send my dog long only on the most experienced I work on the threat and let the helper come close. 
At our Regional last year I put my dog in harms way the back 1/2 helper was not 100% and I knew it I wanted to say something to the judge but sucked it up I also questioned my self weather to pull.
Sure as shit there was a train wreck lucky my dog didn't get jammed or hurt.
At training I can do more to keep my dog safe trial is a different story. Dean Calderon suggested I take some air out of him last year I didn't and wont do it I just cross my fingers nothing ever happens.
.


----------



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Brad,
> 
> Reread my post. I said with a NOOB, nothing about serious injury with a good decoy. The decoy in the video did everything right. My point was, with a fast dog with no brakes, you have to be careful who works him. If it were my dog, full field courage tests would be limited.


Sorry i miss read your post.And i agree with what you and mike say about long attacks they can be really dangerous for the dog.


----------



## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Do you Sch folks do more courage tests during training than long sends with the decoy running away?

Wonder if you mixed up a bit to prevent the dog from applying the brakes before the trial courage test.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

will fernandez said:


> Do you Sch folks do more courage tests during training than long sends with the decoy running away?
> 
> Wonder if you mixed up a bit to prevent the dog from applying the brakes before the trial courage test.


HI Will,

I've seen a lot of guys (me included) doing back up bites, where the decoy charges toward the dog but starts backing up as he gets closer to the dog. I wouldn't do a run away (for a Schutzhund dog) because the "picture" would be too different


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

will fernandez said:


> Do you Sch folks do more courage tests during training than long sends with the decoy running away?
> 
> Wonder if you mixed up a bit to prevent the dog from applying the brakes before the trial courage test.


Its the dog run aways ain't the same VERY few German Shepherds come out of the box this way.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> HI Will,
> 
> I've seen a lot of guys (me included) doing back up bites, where the decoy charges toward the dog but starts backing up as he gets closer to the dog. I wouldn't do a run away (for a Schutzhund dog) because the "picture" would be too different


Dogs like this it don't matter if your going forward or backward, doing cartwheels or falling down hes gong to blast you till he gets jammed and hurt.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Dogs like this it don't matter if your going forward or backward, doing cartwheels or falling down hes gong to blast you till he gets jammed and hurt.


Bangers are hard to catch safely but simple physics means there will be less impact if the decoy is backing up


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Bangers are hard to catch safely but simple physics means there will be less impact if the decoy is backing up


I cant speak I ain't a helper but what some have said its the bangers that set up short that are the most difficult and dangerous to catch. 
If the dog is in the air its like a line drive the short hopper will get ya caught on your heels.
JMO back ups wont do a dog like this any good he must see the threat keeping it short and safe and targeting is what needs to be shown.
Lotso work to make a Schutzhund dog firsts you need the dog, then you need to know what to do with him, lotso different roads to Rome  dont know till your on the road


----------



## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Here is my point.

Lets say... My dog is pretty fast on the long attack. I know that my dog is not getting chased off the field by anybody. But rather than cause the impact of repeated damage I would do 10 long attacks with the decoy running away at top speed to every one courage test. Come trial time the dog would shoot out of the blocks not knowing whether the decoy is going in or out. He just knows balls to the wall.

I maybe just talking out my ass though.


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

what an enjoyable routine to watch!


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

will fernandez said:


> Here is my point.
> 
> Lets say... My dog is pretty fast on the long attack. I know that my dog is not getting chased off the field by anybody. But rather than cause the impact of repeated damage I would do 10 long attacks with the decoy running away at top speed to every one courage test. Come trial time the dog would shoot out of the blocks not knowing whether the decoy is going in or out. He just knows balls to the wall.
> 
> I maybe just talking out my ass though.


Not talking out your ass Will, there is no need to practice long bites there is nothing you can do to teach a dog to come like this its all the dog.
Believe me or not the video of my dog in my sig is his FIRST full field long bite he had done some short 30' 40' footers working targeting that's it granted there was not full threat he was a young dog.
I never practice long bites now there short with different threats and looks from different helpers.
On trial day my hart is pounding wile I'm on top of the field waiting to send him not for fear he will do it but for his safety I would be a wreck if he got hurt or if I had to put him down cause if my ego for sport.
Don't want sound like I'm comparing my dog to the one in the video that dog is a much better dog than mine least it looks to be from the video.


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I never practice long bites now there short....
> On trial day my hart is pounding wile I'm on top of the field waiting to send him not for fear he will do it but for his safety I would be a wreck if he got hurt or if I had to put him down cause if my ego for sport.


i've never seen working long bites as being that dramatic before.


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

kristin tresidder said:


> i've never seen working long bites as being that dramatic before.


If you've ever seen a wreck with a dog being injured badly enough to end its working career, you might. 

Laura


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

kristin tresidder said:


> i've never seen working long bites as being that dramatic before.


Not dramatic or dangerous at training on the 1:16 mark would be a typical practice for a long bite I www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPm4vU__kMM On this day was the first time ever working away from our home field so that alone was part of the lesson having him work on 2 new helpers Troy and Bill was the other.
Like I said its trial day that has me shitting bricks


----------



## Nicole Lit (Jan 21, 2009)

Very nice indeed!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: i've never seen working long bites as being that dramatic before.

Bulldog people. LOL

There was a dog that I was considering getting a pup from years ago, and he had 3 or 4 crushed vertebra in his neck from getting jammed on the face attack. I would not wish that on anyone. 

At Nationals, when the decoy fell on Buko's flee attack, I wanted to have a fit. He had already fallen straight back on another dog, and it really bothers me when they do not know or do not care to keep the dog high side, and keep the dog from getting torqued. It is a basic skill, catching a dog correctly on the flee. Lack of skill is inexcusable in my opinion at that level.

I do not mind when they fall, it is when they cannot react fast enough to keep the dog safe that I get pissed. It does get personal to me.

The thing that makes it really bad, is that you cannot tell if the dog actually did get hurt with dogs like Buko. They are never going to NOT bite. I am sure that he would go down the field with 3 broken legs. That is what is the concern with banger dogs. Maybe it was not that bad, then they go and finish it off with the next attack.


----------



## Kara Fitzpatrick (Dec 2, 2009)

really nice, thanks for posting.


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The thing that makes it really bad, is that you cannot tell if the dog actually did get hurt with dogs like Buko. They are never going to NOT bite. I am sure that he would go down the field with 3 broken legs. That is what is the concern with banger dogs. Maybe it was not that bad, then they go and finish it off with the next attack.


Reminds me of a video I saw on Youtube (I think SchH finals/nationals in Las Vegas) the dog got hurt and was yelping/squealing in pain but still trying to bite the helper. I can't remember the vid title, pretty sure it was on the long attack and the dog tweaked it's neck or back pretty severely.


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: i've never seen working long bites as being that dramatic before.
> 
> Bulldog people. LOL



to all of the people that have ever sold me a dog, short haired or otherwise,
please allow me to pledge my solemn apology for ever putting your pup at such severe risk of physical injury by training it in schutzhund. i was heretofore unaware of the extensive dangers that i posed to fluffy's well being at several training sessions. 
going forward, i think that if the long bite is so inherently dangerous, we ought to make an immediate petition to have it removed entirely from the SCHH routine altogether. after we win this battle, we ought to take on the KNPV for those crazy front attacks they do. that has to be the equivalent to blatant abuse 'eh? 

best regards,

the bulldog person














(still a very nice long bite posted by the OP. i'm sure they had never practiced that before)_


----------



## Wawashkashi Tashi (Aug 25, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> This dog is bad ass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpA9d_5cD-s&feature=related
> Here is the entire routine www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAGEwt3qpAc&NR=1 why the hell do people have to put in this stupid ass music


No slowing up there! A real thing of beauty, that all-out sell! =D>


----------



## Wawashkashi Tashi (Aug 25, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There was a dog that I was considering getting a pup from years ago, and he had 3 or 4 crushed vertebra in his neck from getting jammed on the face attack. I would not wish that on anyone.
> At Nationals, when the decoy fell on Buko's flee attack, I wanted to have a fit. He had already fallen straight back on another dog, and it really bothers me when they do not know or do not care to keep the dog high side, and keep the dog from getting torqued. It is a basic skill, catching a dog correctly on the flee. Lack of skill is inexcusable in my opinion at that level.


Well that's one good thing I can say about my molossers vs. my Bouvier when I'm sending them on someone new.. if they make a bad catch, the person is more apt to get hurt than those thick-ass monsters!  Not that I want *anybody* getting hurt, but I definitely watch out more for my Bouv than the mastiffs.


----------



## Danny Craig (Dec 19, 2010)

Here's another impressive long-bite. Enox der Sonne entgegen. Long bite's at about 4:20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCxuOGJ956w


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

A friend just sent me this vid. You can hear the dog running and the sound of the hit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPLb0krluVE&feature=email


----------



## Justen Haynes (Dec 1, 2010)

What do you mean by "bulldog people"???? You put all of us in one category b/c someone that owns a bulldog said something you don't like??? Please explain.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: What do you mean by "bulldog people"???? You put all of us in one category b/c someone that owns a bulldog said something you don't like??? Please explain.

Your post pretty much covers bulldog people for me. Thanks for letting people see what I mean. I couldn't have explained that better.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

todd pavlus said:


> A friend just sent me this vid. You can hear the dog running and the sound of the hit
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPLb0krluVE&feature=email


The lad was over doged he did good not stuffing the dog though. 
Nice one going back to watch his videos
His brother dont look to shabby ether


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Danny Craig said:


> Here's another impressive long-bite. Enox der Sonne entgegen. Long bite's at about 4:20.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCxuOGJ956w


That brownie is bad ass and scrappy good handling, to bad he prolly got banged for the slow outs I hate that part of the scoring if ya got a good fighter I say show it but........


----------



## Justen Haynes (Dec 1, 2010)

Your post pretty much covers bulldog people for me. Thanks for letting people see what I mean. I couldn't have explained that better.[/QUOTE]

LOL...I am an American Pitbull Terrier guy. I am just as worried about the long bite as any of you. I personally don't appreciate the "bulldog people" comment. This is why I asked what you meant. Sounds like you could be a little jealous...I don't blame you though...I would be too if I had to watch 45 pound dogs, that weren't even bred for schutzhund, do things it would take a 75 pound shepherd to do!..haha The APBT is the strongest dog pound for pound ever bred. They are probably the most versatile breed as well. Get off the bull dog thing dude.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

kristin tresidder said:


> to all of the people that have ever sold me a dog, short haired or otherwise,
> please allow me to pledge my solemn apology for ever putting your pup at such severe risk of physical injury by training it in schutzhund. i was heretofore unaware of the extensive dangers that i posed to fluffy's well being at several training sessions.
> going forward, i think that if the long bite is so inherently dangerous, we ought to make an immediate petition to have it removed entirely from the SCHH routine altogether. after we win this battle, we ought to take on the KNPV for those crazy front attacks they do. that has to be the equivalent to blatant abuse 'eh?
> 
> ...


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I have to laugh, sorry!!

In Siwtzerland, as in many european countries, the schutzdienst helper is licensed. No unlicensed helper is ever allowed to function at national or international events.

No inexperienced helper is allowed to figure at international events.


----------



## Toran Scott (Mar 27, 2009)

Finally watched the vids posted on here... wow... gotta love the speed and courage on the attacks and you gotta give it up to the helpers... the helper in the OP and the helper in the vid Danny Craig posted with the Mali did a great job of catching correctly and keeping the dog safe which is very difficult to do with dogs like that. Thanks for sharing those vids...


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I have to laugh, sorry!!
> 
> In Siwtzerland, as in many european countries, the schutzdienst helper is licensed. No unlicensed helper is ever allowed to function at national or international events.
> 
> No inexperienced helper is allowed to figure at international events.


not licensed here persay I don't think, but "certified" by the organization that is holding event, and selected from group of potential decoys who "try out" for an event.


----------

