# Getting bit and trying not to loose my cool.



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

I am having an issue where i play with my bitch and one of her favourite things is to chase the water pistol and its hot here so its good fun.And we do a little OB for it.

Well today she was chasing the water around my back then came around in front of me and was continued her snapping and came straight up and nipped me right in the middle of the chest leaving a decent mark well i cleaned her clock not bad just enough to let her know its not on.Anyway we keep playing alls good she is a bit spun up from it as im walking i pull her into me by command and start some heeling where she proceeds to bite me on the hand which i ignored then she did it again which i disciplined her again the same way.

Now im not sure if im just spinning her up to much or even if I am my first reaction is this isnt on.I hate disciplining my dog when she was doing a great job i think it builds conflict.

How much do you take?? When is the accidental bite not on??


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

no such thing as an accidental bite, and she isnt doing a great job if she bites during that job...not acting on her bites creates conflict for the dog.....your overthinking this way to much and giving her room to fill in the blanks herself....spinning her up to much, so your solution would be not to do that and hope she wont bite? wrong plan! you decide when and what happens, not her!


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

If you think you're dog is doing a great job when she's flying at your chest biting you or biting your hand during heeling I think you've got a warped since of "great job".


Sounds like there are deeper issues than just this...I'd go to someone experienced and have them fix the timing on your consequences.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

there certainly is such a thing as an accidental bite (meaning they aren't targeting YOU) ... like when your presentation or targeting sucks and the dog gets you instead of the tug or object
- what you described is not, unless you like you are trying to make yourself the target, which you probably are, but don't know why ](*,)


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> If you think you're dog is doing a great job when she's flying at your chest biting you or biting your hand during heeling I think you've got a warped since of "great job".
> 
> 
> Sounds like there are deeper issues than just this...I'd go to someone experienced and have them fix the timing on your consequences.


 Wow, did you even read his post?


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

I know its hard to get a full picture of things when its written but dont jump to conclusions i know what she did was wrong thats why i took the action i did.Jackie and rick when i say that she was doing a great job i didnt mean biting me thats would be crazy i meant when she was healing it was ace (the good job part:-\")and then she bit then i grabbed her.

Thanks Alice some sound advice i appreciate that and yep im over thinking it.

Rick why would i make myself the target??Do you mean i ahve done it accidentally or indirectly somehow??


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> Wow, did you even read his post?


Dont think she did:roll:.

I spelt it out a bit clearer hopefully above.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

since when has it been a requirement to actually read posts before replying lol. 

cant help much with the training but i wouldn't go making it a big issue, just make it really uncomfortable for her to persist with any bs. doesn't sound like an attack on the handler, might be just a good dog not getting enough drive satisfaction, and is telling you she needs more challenge.


in the vid she does look like she could be really quick, so get yr shit together, she getting enough physical activity outside of the water pistol?


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Yeah Pete i think she is and enough mental stim as well.And she is dam fast!

Definately not an attack on me but not a behavior i want to encourage.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Have you trained her anything outside of the ob work?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Peter and Brad ... what vid ??

Brad : re: "Rick why would i make myself the target??"
>>> hell if i know  
"Do you mean i ahve done it accidentally or indirectly somehow??"
>>> yes, INDIRECTLY, by NOT thinking 

**and i don't think you're over thinking about thinking about this; imo it bears thinking and will probably repeat if you don't think about how to prevent it

1. haven't seen the dog and don't even know if we are talking pup or adult which would make a big difference as to how "accidental" it might be
2. have no clue what water play has to do with heeling or if the two were even connected events, but the way you wrote it ... they were connected
- sounded like one minute you're having her chase water to cool off and have fun, and then she tags you so you're a little pissed and after cleaning her clock you decided to lay on some OB with a heeling session when she was still hyped about chasing water, and she tags u again...twice
-- fair assessment ??
3. YOU said the dog tagged your hand when heeling ... twice, and once b4 when water pistol playing....THAT is an issue to me too just like Jackie said, and i sure as hell read what you wrote
4. and i'm not saying it is necessarily a BIG issue, so don't read that into it either :lol:
5. you said you cleaned her clock for one bite and ignored another one ... i don't know what cleaned her clock meant or why you chose to be inconsistent either ????

reset the problem with a video and i'll give you an educated opinion or just give a better "word's eye view" as my favorite announcer Chick Hearn used to say 
...or just follow Alice's advice and be done with it


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

brad robert said:


> Dont think she did:roll:.
> 
> I spelt it out a bit clearer hopefully above.


 Must have been your accent. :lol:


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

It was pretty late at night when I wrote that, so I went back and re-read both posts a couple times. Accents aside, I still don't get where you get the impression that I didn't read it.

Is that the first time she ever bit you during heeling?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I do not take it. First, for me, A relationship based on mutual respect has boundries on both sides. With a pup I might just y ak at them. An older dog...I will kick thier ass, and put them away. Dogs are very, very good with thier mouths. So allowing them to be careless... Well, I think a lot of people think that if they allow thier dog to be a wild little indian that will make them better sport dogs. I have not seen that to be true. I think you get dogs who are careless with thier mouth and you end up with this situation. 

I am not judging I allowed my first my dog to bite me a lot. Calling it an "accident" everytime she did it. Now, I cannot break her of it. But with my young dogs, they best be careful not to have any accidents.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

How old is the dog? Do you ever reward with a toy in training? You can get a dog whipped into too much of a frenzy, period. You can make them uncontrollable. I would continue to whip her up, cap, then reward for capping. let her know she has to control herself when whipped up.

Until you get that clear, you can use a down or something else if play gets too rough, then start your heeling. Food is great here to get their mind off of biting you, in some dogs. IE dog bites your chest. You beat her a little. Put her in a down stay after that is done, a little food for holding the down, a bite on the tug, an out and start heeling.

I agree with alice at least about this one not being accidental. I have had dogs bite my fingers on a tug and shift off quickly no biggie, but usually to me it's like a dog putting his foot on mine when heeling. He knows where his teeth and feet are and he's throwing his weight around when he bites you.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

How old is the dog?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Brad
if you want help don't wait for the fourth round of the same Q 

i doubt we are talking about a dog trying to throw its weight around based on the OP......hint "water obsession"  pet dogs who love to snap at water and get reinforced for doing it do it more, and lose control and get snappier since there really is nothing to bite and gets em more frustrated 
- if anything, and hopefully we are talking about a pet and not a serious dog being trained for bitework, it would be what i called a "redirected play bite", in the exact manner a redirected AGGRESSIVE bite is given (when hyped and out of control, by a dog who hasn't been taught enuff bite control by the handler)
- but i also think they way he "handled it" and then later didn't, should also be spelled out clearer, because that is where he could really start conditioning a BAD handling error depending on the dog's. i get WAY too many dogs that have been conditioned to "having their clock cleaned" 
- fwiw, it doesn't always make a fear biter .... if they are decent, confident dogs it makes em (defensively) aggressive...the label of fear biter is a WAY overused term and i could write volumes about how wrong some people are when they tack on that label without reading the dog's body posture properly and know nothing of its background


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Rick there is a vid here somewhere of me playing around with her.

Rick im not sure how you train but i will take any tool that puts my dog in drive to do some training so you asked what does playing with water and heeling have to do with each other so thats how it fits and anything that we like to do together i use.

I agree that the first hand nip should not have been ignored my mistake.

She is 3 now and when she gets into a high state of drive she is far from clear headed. 

I think what you said about snapping at things that are not there builds incredible amounts of frustration is very true.I dont think this is a big issue and is my fault the dog and i have no dominance issues etc just makes it hard to keep your cool when you get pegged.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I agree with Alice on this one. Over thinking . If you don't want your dog to bite you don't let it. Doesn't matter the age or situation.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Timothy Saunders said:


> I agree with Alice on this one. Over thinking . If you don't want your dog to bite you don't let it. Doesn't matter the age or situation.


Very true!!

Gotta say i like what Dave wrote too made a lot of sense.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i LUV these one liners from the sages :
"If you don't want your dog to bite you don't let it"

- that is exactly without a doubt the very best advice in the whole dog world and a helluva lot easier to type than try and write a whole paragraph to find out some details and actually give someone particular advice to someone who OBVIOUSLY needs it ](*,)](*,)=D>=D>
- and besides that it's crystal clear and black and white 

OK Brad, tell me in one sentence how you plan on doing that :roll:

i'm trying not to "overthink" what your profound answer will be

this kinda talk makes as much sense as "how do you stop a dog from being mouthy on a DB retrieve ?" .....don't let em chew =D>
ROTFLMAOADL

think i'll stick to giving advice to people who pay me


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

The point is.that if he doesn't want the dog to bite correct the dog everytime the dog.does it. The point is no.one can.train a dog on the internet. We are trying to give ideas. To use a forum effectively u have to have some idea about. What u.are doing.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Hey rick i think it really is pretty simple and i will just be doing as alice and timothy said i wil be correcting her if she does it.

I think i looked to hard into it.

Dont get offended if people dont take your advice but im greatful that you attempted to find out more but to be truthful you didnt give me any you asked me alot of questions to which i answered and if you look at my original post i didnt ask for peoples advice on how to fix the problem just how much do you take or how do you react to your dog when this happens or when is an accident not really one.But i appreciated what some contributed some great ideas amongst them.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

I would ask how old is your dog? is she just learning .... I would also ask if you got bit, was it that she was jumping up to snap at the water or game you were creating and you happened to be in the way or is she trying to bite you ? Sometimes playing with a tug or toy, I have gotten nipped- and during that I definately do not correct my dog for MY mistakes....but if my dog shows any aggression or bites me in response to frustration then I would correct the dog....but don't confuse the dog, be fair and play safe


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

She is 3 yrs Mo and definately was frustration and my chest didnt get in the way.


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## Chris Jones II (Mar 20, 2011)

and she has been doing this for how long? 3 years?
:roll:


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

I have to agree with Rick, too much said not enough concrete evidence to be helpful. Re-examine the whole process step by step, bit by bit. Then try not to put her in the position of repeating the behavior, it's easier than working backwards or after the fact. Capping desired behavior before what sounds like mis-directed aggression is a thought also. Try to read your dog better, we can all do that, in this instance it'll keep you from screaming like a little girl when it happens. I see it as your problem for putting her in that position. Their is more than one way to see this, not being, or seeing the situation calls for much speculation, which your getting. JMHO


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Welcome to e-training Brad, this is how it goes.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I feel for you Brad,

I am scratching my head trying to figure out why my dog bites me too.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Hhhmmmm!

Alice, Dave and James seem to have gotten the gist of the question.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I feel for you Brad,
> 
> I am scratching my head trying to figure out why my dog bites me too.


Oh ffs read the question.

I ask how do people do deal with a bite weather its accident or not and people go on with shit you must be special if you never got bit doing drive work with your dog


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

I got a fair idea Joby, lol.

Brad yr just gonna have to ride this one out, such is the way on mount assumption in the land of opinion.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

brad robert said:


> Oh ffs


FFS? That's a new one. I like it. Eh, roll with it Brad. Sometimes these guys are just bored schmucks with nothing better to do with their time. Occasionally, I fall into that category too. :twisted: I suppose a stupid reply could be better than not receiving a response at all. :-k


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> FFS? That's a new one. I like it. Eh, roll with it Brad. Sometimes these guys are just bored schmucks with nothing better to do with their time. Occasionally, I fall into that category too. :twisted: I suppose a stupid reply could be better than not receiving a response at all. :-k


LMAO. Good advice thanks.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

brad robert said:


> Oh ffs read the question.
> 
> I ask how do people do deal with a bite weather its accident or not and people go on with shit you must be special if you never got bit doing drive work with your dog


I never really did much "drive work" with this dog honestly...but have been bitten quite a few times...while playing, doing OB, and dumb stuff...

It all depends on YOU really...there were a few times I was fairly sure the dog nailed me on purpose. I did not tolerate that varied from verbal scolding to punch in the head. One time she did come and try to eat me, that was met with severity...There have been a few misses, where I got nailed, I didnt do much about those, and a couple that were my fault for thinking I would not get bit for doing something stupid, or moving the target incorrectly. been bitten plenty of times...hell a few times, just trying to hook the dog up on the tie out and get outta there...but that is fixed now...lol...

really varies dude..from nothing,,to verbal to physical, to witholding toys or whatever, to choking the dog out, or chokeslamming the dog like the Undertaker would, is that better?


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I never really did much "drive work" with this dog honestly...but have been bitten quite a few times...while playing, doing OB, and dumb stuff...
> 
> It all depends on YOU really...there were a few times I was fairly sure the dog nailed me on purpose. I did not tolerate that varied from verbal scolding to punch in the head. One time she did come and try to eat me, that was met with severity...There have been a few misses, where I got nailed, I didnt do much about those, and a couple that were my fault for thinking I would not get bit for doing something stupid, or moving the target incorrectly. been bitten plenty of times...hell a few times, just trying to hook the dog up on the tie out and get outta there...but that is fixed now...lol...
> 
> really varies dude..from nothing,,to verbal to physical, to witholding toys or whatever, to choking the dog out, or chokeslamming the dog like the Undertaker would, is that better?


Lol Thanks mate thats it!!

She sounds like an angry girl.


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