# Aggression Training



## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

I am constantly asked by people in the dog world about my methods on dealing with dog on dog aggression. I guess because I have had really good success with dogs that others have deemed unfixable I have been labeled as an aggressive dog specialist. I never set out to specialize in any one area of dog training but I guess I’ll take it as a compliment. So now, the majority of calls that I get for training is usually some type of aggression. I get calls literally from all over the world and to be honest I’m still getting use to the positive attention, I’m still shocked by it. 

When I started my business in Nashville, Tennessee a few years back, I only did it after many people convinced me to give it a try to just pay for my dog hobby. I never expected it to blow up the way it did. The funny thing is I do not do it to make a living, I do it because I truly love working with dogs, especially troubled dogs. I am a Federal Agent and have been for 17 years. I love my job but my heart is with the dogs.

As far as training goes, let’s start by saying I did not create some new fancy method that I put my name to and say I’m such a genius and just the greatest trainer around. I use all methods, all tools, and most of all I use just good communication and energy that the dog understands. They are not people, they are dogs and that is the language that they understand.

I’ll get into methods shortly, but first talk about how I live with my dogs. I have big powerful dogs, Rotties and Shepherds, all males. I have never had a fight between my dogs and my Rotty and GSD can’t stand each other. They do not play or interact at all, but yet they are together in the house all day alone, they eat in the same room, share the same water bowl, and I do give them raw bones unsupervised in my yard. Why don’t they get into it people ask me all the time, and the answer is simple. There is not a battle for leadership there. The dogs do not have that stress of taking over. I’m in charge, my wife is in charge, my 7 year old and my 2 year old are in charge, that simple.

Here is an example. The GSD was my dad’s dog. My dad passed away almost 4 years ago, and while he was dying from lung cancer he was worried about what would happen to his dog. I promised him I would take him, but to be honest I don’t think he ever believed me since I had three dogs and his GSD was dog aggressive and could be very people aggressive if not introduced properly. My dad died and when I left Jersey after all the services for my dad I took the dog back with me. Here is how it went.

I pulled in the driveway, took Bear out of the car and started walking away from my home. I told my wife to let the dogs out and of course they came to greet Bear. Bear erupted like a lion and tried to attack, that is what he was used to. I gave a little correction with the leash and choke collar, but I never slowed my forward progress or spoke any words, just kept moving forward. Again they try to greet and same reaction from Bear, you get the picture. I keep doing the same thing and by time we are through my development, about 20 minutes, I let Bear off leash in my yard and he is running around with the other dogs. Now there was a lot of tension from Bear and Bruno my Rotty but it was my job to be all over that, and here is an example of that.

We go into the house and Bear lays in one corner of the kitchen, which he still does to this day. Bruno walks through the kitchen and just looks at Bear. At that moment I jump all over Bruno. Bruno needs to know that I will not tolerate that challenge to Bear, because that is what it is, and more importantly Bear needs to see that I control things and he can put his trust in me. That tension went on for about two weeks and then it was over. Still don’t play together but no tension.

What I am trying to get at is there has to be rules in the house and you have to be consistent in enforcing them. The dogs do not make any decisions, if they do they will benefit them not you and your family. This is where the behavior is shaped, whether good or bad. To me behavior is 80% obedience is 20%. If I am lying on the couch and Bruno comes and drops his big beautiful head on my chest to be petted, I don’t. I send him away, and when he goes away and lays down I call him back and I love on him. I can’t allow him to say, hey bitch pet me, because that is really what he is doing. If one of the dogs are lying in the doorway to the kitchen, I do not allow my children to step over them, that is not the dogs space, it is ours. My children just tell them to go. My 2 year old is very polite and always says thank you to the dogs. The dogs never give them a hard time here and I promise their feeling are not hurt. A lot of people try but don’t go all the way. An example is I hear people give the same scenario, but what they do is when the dog demands to be petted they tell the dog to sit and then they pet. The problem here is that the dog still put himself right where he wanted to be and got what he wanted. Half your terms half his terms and that will never work.

I don’t allow dogs on my furniture and especially on my bed. Many people will disagree with that, but I’m telling you what I believe and how I raise my dogs, which by the way get more love and attention than any dog could ever imagine. The truth is they really need the structure and will love you for it. I won’t go any further here because I’ll be writing all day, I think you get the picture, I’m a fanatic about rules and boundaries and my wife is even worse.

Now for training with an aggressive dog. It definitely helps to have access to a well-balanced dog and that is where Bruno comes in for me. I am still amazed when I watch him work around an unstable dog. I’m good at reading dogs but Bruno is definitely a lot better.

When I take the leash I do not give commands. I just move with a lot of confidence and calmness. I just want the dog to follow, that is it. Once I’m comfortable here I decide what I’m going to do, it all depends on the dog. I will talk about a couple of different methods that some of you probably already know.

The first method is Behavior Adjustment Treatment (BAT). This is used frequently by trainers dealing with people or dog aggression. I won’t go into all the details but here it is in a nutshell.

You have a dog aggressive dog. You take your aggressive dog toward a stable dog being held on a leash. You find a distance where your dog becomes aware of the helper dog and when your dog starts to show any signs of stress you stop right at that point and you wait. You don’t say anything. You wait for some kind of calming signal like your dog looks away or looks at you or sniffs the ground. As soon as that happens you mark that behavior and walk your dog away and treat. What this comes down to is just another way of using Bart Bellon’s NE PO PO (Negative Positive Positive) method. So when using Bart’s method with E Collar the tap on the collar is the negative, the stopping of the e collar is the first positive and then the reward (food or toy) is the second positive. With BAT, the stress caused by the appearance of another dog is the negative, the removal of your dog is the first positive and the food or toy is the second positive. You repeat this over and over until you can approach all the way. A very simple but very effective method when done properly and combined with good leadership in the home.

The next method is not well known, but I have had tremendous success with it. It is called Constructional Aggression Treatment (CAT). This is similar to BAT but with CAT you are removing the trigger dog or person. It works like this. You put your dog aggressive dog on a leash and you relax. No talking no commands. Another handler takes the trigger dog from a long distance and the trigger starts to approach. As soon as the subject dog starts to show signs of tension the trigger stops and you mark that spot and wait. As soon as the subject dog shows any calming signs the trigger dog goes away to the safe distance that did not cause any tension. You do not say or do anything to the subject dog, you just stand there. After about 20 seconds the trigger dog approaches again. As soon as the subject dog shows any tension the trigger stops in place. When the subject calms, again the trigger goes away to the safe spot and waits 20 seconds. You keep repeating until you can get close without any tension. This is a tremendous method and I have used it in conjunction with BAT with great success. You can Google both methods for full details.

Here is the last example I will give and it involves a mix breed named Nash owned by Rafael and Michele in Nashville, Tennessee. Nash was very people and dog aggressive especially at their apartment complex. Rafael wanted to pay for and eight lesson package. I told him to take the three lesson and that should be enough. Rafael wanted to do e collar training and try to fix the aggression. I do not use e collar to fix aggression. I told them we will teach the e collar like I would with any other dog and focus separately on the aggression. I use a lot of reward when teaching e collar so I couldn’t do that if the dog was muzzled, and I did not want to cause any kind of conflict with the dog. So for the first two lessons I never touched the dog. I had Rafael control the leash and the food rewards and I controlled the e collar. It went like this: Rafael puts the e collar on Nash and a long line. I found the lowest level on the collar that Nash could barely feel. Once we have a working level, Rafael says Nash come, I tap the nick button, the second Nash turns to come toward Rafael he says YESSS and rewards. We did that for two lessons and added sit, place and down. The e collar training went perfect and Nash performed beautifully.

Now time for the aggression. Remember, I still have never laid my hands on this dog. I bring Bruno to help. I start in the parking lot at the apartment where they live. After 5 minutes of walking Rafael through the BAT method it starts to down pour, so we had no choice but to move into the stairwell hallway of their apartment, and it was dark. I had Rafael stand in the back end of the hallway, and by the way Nash did not eat at all that day. You need a hungry dog for food to be a motivator. Every time I entered the hallway with Bruno I instructed Rafael to start feeding. As soon as I left with Bruno the feeding stopped. We repeated over and over until Nash showed absolutely no sign of tension but instead starting looking to Rafael for his reward at the first sight of Bruno. We did this for about 15 minutes and then switched to CAT. Now when we entered and approached, Bruno and I stopped at a fairly close distance and Nash showed very little tension if any. The second Nash looked at Rafael Bruno and I walked away. It was much more difficult and less room for error doing this in a tight hallway, but you use what you have. We repeated several times and before we ended Nash wasn’t showing any tension.

The following weekend Nash came to his first group class. I asked all the other clients to ignore Nash and do not let their dogs approach him. After conducting class for about 10 minutes I walked over to Nash, gave him my side and squatted down. He started loving on me and I hugged on him. Rafael was filming this and my other clients had no clue that I had never been able to approach Nash until Rafael told them. It was a great moment. The following weekend Rafael and Michele were moving to Boston. They sent me a video of movers in their apartment and Nash lying down without a care in the world. I still keep in contact with them and Nash is doing well.

Nash’s training went successfully, but it would not have worked if his owners did not take control of everything else in his life. Behavior then obedience, always.

It is difficult to put this into words so I will work on a video demonstrating some of the above methods


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

These are not training videos, but this is Nash, one of the examples I talked about. You can see the first time I ever made contact with him and at home with the movers i talked about

http://youtu.be/wBmuses8wTA

http://youtu.be/t8s9b_ZiMqE


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Very nice post! I'm also a big believer in behavior first. 
As to dog aggression. I believe that the majority <definitely not all) dogs that are deamed dog aggressive are a created problem as opposed to genetic. I've used my older GSD to introduce aggressive dogs. If they aren't actually pushing him he has no interest. He's also been a great dog to introduce pups to.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Tx for taking the time to write this up ... wish more posters would do that 

this is a very interesting thread to me since i also deal with dog aggression issues

been too busy here to digest the whole post but looks like we have a very similar approach and also use other dogs in the process
- kinda funny, but my "go to" dog now was actually the most DA canine i ever dealt with 
- glad to see someone else out there who feels trying to "correct" them or fry them out of it with stricter OB usually takes the dog in the wrong direction unless they are super trainers and can do it in one "come to jesus" moment 
- could be wrong and often am, but my gut feeling is there are a lot of working dog owners who have a DA dog and rationalize that it "doesn't have to like other dogs" rather than try and fix it ](*,)

hope this gets some more responses from others who have dealt with the problem since this is not exactly a rare issue 

and a heckofalot more interesting to me than .... well, never mind


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

BAT is probably the closest to what I do with dog-reactive dogs (I say dog-reactive rather than dog-aggro because the range of reactivity is wide), except that my goal is not to have the dog focus at all on the trigger dog (even to then look away, at me, etc.), but to learn that the trigger dog is background noise only and that focus on me will work well for him.

This is the Reader's Digest version: I start with ob and focus work* with zero distractions, probably indoors, then when we move outdoors, we stay outside the dog's trigger zone. (There are many ways to set this up, of course.)

The zone becomes smaller.

I think it was on this thread that someone mentioned not layering ob over the dog's triggered reaction. I agree 100%. My goal is for the reaction not to happen.

And Larry, big ditto on the rest of the dog's life: my own formerly reactive dog, adopted as an adult, has learned that I'll deal with his triggers, that I determine appropriate reactions, that I'm in charge, and that there's no opening at the top in the pack.

So in a nutshell, my goal is bullet-proof ob learned at a distance from the trigger at which the dog does not react.

I'm with Rick that this is a very useful topic.



* I forgot to say that for me, these sessions are upbeat marker sessions, with the marker already charged before I take the sessions outdoors.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

VERY good point about making the distinction between reactive and aggressive

MANY dogs that come to me labeled aggressive are actually just reactive and then made worse by owners tensing up and OVERreacting by correcting the crap out of dog, which then makes it worse ... much more common than true aggression cases

still want to take time to reply but will point out it is very easy to modify jafco muzzles so you can feed a dog ... actually they even make one with a "factory punched" hole in it
- i use them a lot with aggressive dogs and for other reasons and won't even start training until they will eat and drink calmly when muzzled


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks guys, I appreciate that. I was hesitant to write anything because it is so hard to put into words, at least for me. I can go on forever about this subject but it's so hard not to bore people too much


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

rick smith said:


> ... MANY dogs that come to me labeled aggressive are actually just reactive and then made worse by owners tensing up and OVERreacting by correcting the crap out of dog, which then makes it worse ... much more common than true aggression cases ....




Me too, including dogs surrendered because of "dog aggression."


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## Jojo Bautista (Mar 7, 2010)

I kinda have the same method as this but i use low level E to make the dog look away. When he does i say YES and retreat to a safe distance and reward him. The ECOLLAR method i borrowed from LOU CASTLE and i mixed with BAT. But i don't use Ecollar to a fearful dog cos it will only confirm his suspicion that something bad is going to a happen.


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Jojo Bautista said:


> I kinda have the same method as this but i use low level E to make the dog look away. When he does i say YES and retreat to a safe distance and reward him. The ECOLLAR method i borrowed from LOU CASTLE and i mixed with BAT. But i don't use Ecollar to a fearful dog cos it will only confirm his suspicion that something bad is going to a happen.


If the e collar is used like most use it, for correction and punishment only, then yes using on a fearful dog can be bad. I use e collar on all my cases, especially fearful dogs. It has fantastic results in boosting confidence in a fearful dog. Sometimes owners freak out when they see I'm going to put an e collar on their fearful dog, but they change their minds very quickly when they see the dog have the opposite reaction than they thought it would.


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Jojo Bautista said:


> I kinda have the same method as this but i use low level E to make the dog look away. When he does i say YES and retreat to a safe distance and reward him. The ECOLLAR method i borrowed from LOU CASTLE and i mixed with BAT. But i don't use Ecollar to a fearful dog cos it will only confirm his suspicion that something bad is going to a happen.


Great videos by the way Jojo


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## Jojo Bautista (Mar 7, 2010)

Larry Krohn said:


> Every time I entered the hallway with Bruno I instructed Rafael to start feeding. As soon as I left with Bruno the feeding stopped. We repeated over and over until Nash showed absolutely no sign of tension but instead starting looking to Rafael for his reward at the first sight of Bruno. We did this for about 15 minutes and then switched to CAT. Now when we entered and approached, Bruno and I stopped at a fairly close distance and Nash showed very little tension if any. The second Nash looked at Rafael Bruno and I walked away. It was much more difficult and less room for error doing this in a tight hallway, but you use what you have. We repeated several times and before we ended Nash wasn’t showing any tension.


I like this idea of using the hallway...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

DA training i use a lot
.... if i have a dog who is very dog aggressive i use this technique all the time. i didn't include all details, but listed most of them since i already catch enuff flak for writing too long and being hard to understand 

* it requires two dogs. one who is dog neutral or near neutral who i will call the "good dog" ... 

1. starting with the DA dog, i need to get to the point where it will respond consistently to simply positions (sit/down/stand). until it will do that i don't go further, but i don't need much more than that. i also don't start until it has enuff food drive to take treats and learn basic markers.
2. i then use a sliding gate to work with both dogs in the same area. i have two gates around my place. i want it to slide easy and have slots big enuff to get a nose in but not the whole head, and i definitely do NOT want a solid gate. since i will have a dog on each side i want them to see each other and be able to get their noses in there. 
- i also didn't mention a muzzle. it could be used, but at this point, i prefer the DA dog should be at the level that it doesn't need it
3. the good dog should be able to back up on command, but doesn't need anything special OB wise, just basic decent OB that is proofed around barking dogs. of course the more neutral the better ... duh 
4. i start conditioning the drill by bringing both dogs together on opposite sides. i will alternate being on both sides with both dogs equally, and i will also alternate the sides the dogs are on. all i do at this point is work with the good dog doing simple OB with food markers. i ignore the DA dog when i'm not on its side of the gate. if the DA dog freaks, flaps its jaws and spins, fine. if it finally settles, that's better, but not necessary.
5. i always start on the good dog side but always end the session on the DA side. when i've gone back and forth a few times, i send the good dog away, or have a helper take it away. at NO time does the DA dog determine when that happens, since i don't want to condition it into thinking it "drives the dog off", etc .... duh again 
6. i finish up on the DA side and i don't leave until it has calmed, will down and take treats for OB
7. eventually the DA dog will start freaking and flapping less and less ....how long that takes is up to the dog. but my sessions stay short and frequent; about 3-5 minutes, no matter how well they go  .... but until i see some improvement we go no farther, and i don't increase the duration of a session just because it goes well. lots of sets. i do it this way to try and eliminate the "barrier aggression" and get the dogs used to "meeting" and being close to each other
8. when there is improvement, i start actually cracking open the gate a bit. of course i can slide it shut and i always stay in the middle; impossible for the dogs to get it on ... duh again 
* btw, for the gates, i use four by four's on the bottom with skate board wheels for sliding. the gate fits in and slides thru wood guides on the top, so it can't lean at all. vertical gate risers are also wood....nothing special but stout and crash proof
9. with the gate open, my only goal is to get both dogs to sit and take treats with me in the middle, NOT to let the dogs meet each other
- at first the good dog will of course take treats but the DA dog usually won't ... no biggy. my point is to just condition it, and again, i always keep the sessions short, and at first i may only get the gate open 6-8 inches, but i try and always feed thru the open part, not thru the slats in the verticals. and i'm also not asking for OB from the DA dog; only from the good dog. if the DA dog won't approach me i may toss em a treat; judgment call here 
- basic drill now is i will tell the good dog to do "something"; mark and treat ... then turn to the DA dog and see if it will eat.....that's how it starts out
- when the DA dogs gets more relaxed i will then start giving it some simple OB to get the treat
10. this goes on for awhile until i can open the gate more, and when i can get a good feel that the DA dog won't try and go thru me, but i still stay in between ... duh again 
11. lots of short sessions....as it gets better i will handle both dogs more with the same hand and make sure they get plenty of mixed scent and slobber from each other. i will also start making both dogs hold the same OB (each in a sit) and increase the duration, and try and treat as "simultaneously" as possible. LOTS of variations in OB with increased times.

that's pretty much it. 

as the DA dog starts losing the reactivity, it becomes obvious. i have had many DA dogs that will start to copy the OB from teh good dog ... i will put the good dog in a sit and look over and the DA dog is also in a sit  i've used this a lot and it has worked well .... but could take from days to weeks til i see improvements
** not a miracle cure, but has worked as an "ice breaker" for me. i know this has been mentioned, but i do this VERY gradually and very deliberately. that's why i went into some detail....safety is always a biggy for me
*** if you do the same thing and have more suggestions please post em !!


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

Larry Krohn said:


> Thanks guys, I appreciate that. I was hesitant to write anything because it is so hard to put into words, at least for me. I can go on forever about this subject but it's so hard not to bore people too much


No chance of me getting bored!!! I have had to implement a lot of what you said to make progress with my own dog. Problem is, I have gotten hurt before and my own fear was feeding his reactivity/aggression. 

We have come a long way but I also just learned a lot reading this thread, so thank you- and post away 

I also agree behavior has way more to do with this issue than obedience!


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## James Kotary (Nov 14, 2012)

Great post Larry. Though i am not a professional this is what I did with my Rottweilers. My male is the calmest dog I have ever seen. Now my female McKenzie is another story. She is a rescue that I have had for eight months. She had issues from men to other dogs. Now she can go with me to events and places dogs are allowed with confidence. She was not treat driven so alot of praising was called for. She will not eat treats when we are out of the house. She does still try to pry under my hand for attention, but I send her away. I do not give in to her pouting eyes. 
Rottweilers can be head strong as I have found out, but they both know I am the alpha and they are on the same level as omega in my house.


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## Eric kettering (Jul 3, 2012)

Larry, I know this is a lil off topic but do you have a video on YouTube of you and Bruno working by a kids playground? Like in a backyard? Obiedence and bite work?


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Eric kettering said:


> Larry, I know this is a lil off topic but do you have a video on YouTube of you and Bruno working by a kids playground? Like in a backyard? Obiedence and bite work?


Yes I do


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