# My Weimariner is sick



## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

She is our house dog and is 8 years old and last night and dis morning she is peeing while laying down. I know this isn't a good sign but is there any hope? My wife is on the way to the vet now!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

When you say laying down, do you mean when sleeping or awake? Let us know what the vet says.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

When she is sleeping


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> When she is sleeping


My friends dog started that at 9 years old, while sleeping peeing and pooing, then they controlled it with hormone supplements, but a year later dog died, they never knew or caught, dog had tumors and eventually died of cancer!

Hope she pulls through and gets better, best of luck!


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Did it happen all of the sudden? Or does she have other health issues as well? 

Any other signs of her being ill at all?

Here are some links about sleep incontinence....(not saying that is what it is)
http://www.ehow.com/how_4509875_help-dog-sleep-incontinence.html 

http://www.allivet.com/Articles.asp?ID=166

I hope it is something that can be treated and controlled......keep us posted on what the vet says....


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

She don't sound doomed for sure, could be a bladder infection let the vet have a look see polly nothing much at all


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Glad you are taking the dog to the vet....

That said, peeing when sleeping is not uncommon, especially for girl dogs of certain breeds...after they have been altered. Does not mean the dog will be sick in other ways. 

I don't remember the name of this...Maren could tell you (so will your vet). There are some hormones/meds that the dog is put on that can help with this. It is very common in some breeds too....like dobes.

Interestingly, we had a male search dog in our program that started doing this....peeing while sleeping. It had been happening off and on for two weeks. It is not as common in male dogs I understand..the vet ruled out bladder and UTI's infections and such and was discussing long term drug therapy for the dog.

The handler decided to go to this alternative vet...just to see what she said. That vet thought that there was something "off" in the dog's back end and did a couple of chiropractic adjustments. Could have been coincidence, but the dog never had the problem ever again, so never did end up going on the drugs.

That said I do know a couple of dogs in town (females) that have been on drugs for it, and seem otherwise normal pets.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Glad you are taking the dog to the vet....
> 
> That said, peeing when sleeping is not uncommon, especially for girl dogs of certain breeds...after they have been altered. Does not mean the dog will be sick in other ways.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's called spay incontinence in females. The sphincter in the urinary bladder in females is partially regulated by estrogen and a drop in estrogen from a spay or other reasons can lessen the tone of the sphincter, but it can also happen in intact animals as well. It is typically treated with drugs like PPA.

Tim, your vet will likely want a urine sample and blood work to check for things like a UTI, diabetes, and other issues as there other reasons for excessive urination or incontinence as well. Canine cognitive dysfunction (basically dog dementia) is another reason a dog might become incontinent as it ages.


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Timothy Stacy said:


> She is our house dog and is 8 years old and last night and dis morning she is peeing while laying down. I know this isn't a good sign but is there any hope? My wife is on the way to the vet now!


I hope they get your gal fixed up and that she will be ok.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Yeah, it's called spay incontinence in females. The sphincter in the urinary bladder in females is partially regulated by estrogen and a drop in estrogen from a spay or other reasons can lessen the tone of the sphincter, but it can also happen in intact animals as well. It is typically treated with drugs like PPA.
> 
> Tim, your vet will likely want a urine sample and blood work to check for things like a UTI, diabetes, and other issues as there other reasons for excessive urination or incontinence as well. Canine cognitive dysfunction (basically dog dementia) is another reason a dog might become incontinent as it ages.


Right on the money. She is healthy and they took some urine samples(everything checked out). She has some lumps that I had checked out about 6 months ago but have grown slightly due to where they are located the vet says it's a good idea to have them removed (fatty tumors but the one has a nucleus or some shit, 2nd hand info). You can see the lumps in the pic. My daughter loves this dog.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Vet said she'll be on meds the rest of her life!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Vet said she'll be on meds the rest of her life!



Is it propanolamine ?


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Is it propanolamine ?


Yes it is


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Your Daughter is adorable! Sorry your dog will have to be on meds but at least there's something to help her.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Diana Abel said:


> Your Daughter is adorable! Sorry your dog will have to be on meds but at least there's something to help her.


Better than gone! It's funny how my daughter picks up on my voice changing. She changes her voice to (not yell at the dogs but to act like she really means it, mostly the word quiet she grits her teeth LOL) she don't miss a thing.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Yes it is


Yup, that's the PPA I mentioned. There are other drugs out there, but that's usually the first choice.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

my dobe is on PPA 2 X a day and estrogen 2 X a week , and it seems to be keeping it under control , she has been on it since i got her 3 yrs ago , I am sure this is the reason the past owner got rid of her, but they told me she bit thier kid, 
the drugs have helped for sure , but she still does have days she drips, makes me nuts


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Yeah, it's called spay incontinence in females. The sphincter in the urinary bladder in females is partially regulated by estrogen and a drop in estrogen from a spay or other reasons can lessen the tone of the sphincter, but it can also happen in intact animals as well. It is typically treated with drugs like PPA.
> 
> Tim, your vet will likely want a urine sample and blood work to check for things like a UTI, diabetes, and other issues as there other reasons for excessive urination or incontinence as well. Canine cognitive dysfunction (basically dog dementia) is another reason a dog might become incontinent as it ages.


Your not too shy when it comes to giving your opinion regarding diagnosis but you wont give a simple answer regarding dosage.. oh well, maybe you'll come to my aid when I overdose my dog or at least give your opinion about what my vet might tell me :razz:


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Better than gone! It's funny how my daughter picks up on my voice changing. She changes her voice to (not yell at the dogs but to act like she really means it, mostly the word quiet she grits her teeth LOL) she don't miss a thing.


LOL, yeah & wait till she picks up the words ya don't want her repeating.  How old is your Weim? Is this an "Age" thing or what? Never heard of this before.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Your not too shy when it comes to giving your opinion regarding diagnosis but you wont give a simple answer regarding dosage.. oh well, maybe you'll come to my aid when I overdose my dog or at least give your opinion about what my vet might tell me :razz:


Gerry, notice just about whenever someone asks for medical advice, I'll ask what did their vet say (as I did in this case too) or help them find a specialist. And in this case, I filled in what Jennifer C. was thinking of. The typical pattern on this section of the forum is "my vet diagnosed my dog with X, what does that mean?" and I have access to resources where I can help guide people to background info from really reliable sources like Veterinary Partner and the Merck Manual. I don't diagnose people's pets from across the internet. 

I know it's hard to appreciate on here, but I actually have to be really, *really* careful what I say on here (as Connie knows as well). I'm not a licensed veterinary doctor yet (still got a little less than a year left) and even when I am, I'm not going to give you all dosages on medications, particularly prescription meds. Some doctors (human and veterinary) chose to do this and we've been warned repeatedly it's a really bad place to put ourselves in both legally and ethically. If you want a dose for ivermectin, call your own vet. It's likely to be free to talk to them and pick their brain (they'll probably even do the calculations for you) and they legally have a doctor/patient/client relationship with you and your dog, whereas I do not. If you overdose your dog, I'll tell you to pay the money to call the ASPCA's poison control line.  And try not to say "I told you so." ;-)


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Gerry, notice just about whenever someone asks for medical advice, I'll ask what did their vet say (as I did in this case too) or help them find a specialist. And in this case, I filled in what Jennifer C. was thinking of. The typical pattern on this section of the forum is "my vet diagnosed my dog with X, what does that mean?" and I have access to resources where I can help guide people to background info from really reliable sources like Veterinary Partner and the Merck Manual. I don't diagnose people's pets from across the internet.
> 
> I know it's hard to appreciate on here, but I actually have to be really, *really* careful what I say on here (as Connie knows as well). I'm not a licensed veterinary doctor yet (still got a little less than a year left) and even when I am, I'm not going to give you all dosages on medications, particularly prescription meds. Some doctors (human and veterinary) chose to do this and we've been warned repeatedly it's a really bad place to put ourselves in both legally and ethically. If you want a dose for ivermectin, call your own vet. It's likely to be free to talk to them and pick their brain (they'll probably even do the calculations for you) and they legally have a doctor/patient/client relationship with you and your dog, whereas I do not. If you overdose your dog, I'll tell you to pay the money to call the ASPCA's poison control line.  And try not to say "I told you so." ;-)


Nice job on tactfully telling him to go soak his head!


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> If you want a dose for ivermectin, call your own vet.


I don't have a vet, the GP types are all about selling kennel cough meds and obediance classes and when asked anything more than very basic questions get this look on their face like a pig takin a piss.

The good vets specialize and you have to be referred by the retards to see them.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Your not too shy when it comes to giving your opinion regarding diagnosis but you wont give a simple answer regarding dosage.. oh well, maybe you'll come to my aid when I overdose my dog or at least give your opinion about what my vet might tell me :razz:


\
Ivermectin Gerry? * 
1/10th of 1cc for each 10 pounds of body weight*

http://beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_canineheartworms.htm

and here if that is too much Ivermectin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqR0Rd4dbfA


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Edward Egan said:


> Nice job on tactfully telling him to go soak his head!


LOL, I'm not trying to be neither snarky nor deceptive, it's just the truth. Anybody at the feed store or on the internet can give you whatever advice they want and aren't held accountable. We are. 

So I guess that makes me a decent future vet since I want to specialize? :mrgreen: I may not even get to though. I'm pretty far down the line in terms of GPA, trust me. Probably too much time spent in the WDF and having fun with my dogs and not enough time with my nose in a book... :-$


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

@ tim--great news!! and your baby girl's a cutie  

@ gerry--sorry to hear the quality of vets is so poor in your area, but keep in mind that the laws governing vets are probably a bit different here than in CD.

and here, a doctor/client/patient relationship is required by law. federal law. and any vet that doesn't want to risk losing their license (and all that entails) is going to be sure that relationship is established before prescribing medications.

bottom line, i wish you'd lay off maren--she's not even a "real vet" yet, but some of the ppl on this forum seem to think--like you--she should risk everything's she's worked for for all these years to answer a question you can either call your own vet about or even google.

i personally give her kudos for her position on this.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks Ann..and working for a large animal vet, how many times did you hear "Oh, the guy at the feed store told me to try..." and it was something completely off the wall?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Thanks Ann..and working for a large animal vet, how many times did you hear "Oh, the guy at the feed store told me to try..." and it was something completely off the wall?


more times than i care to remember, lol!!! that and "my neighbor told me to try.." 

and in the small animal realm: "oh the really nice gal at petsmart told me to..."

oh well, all i can do is try to educate people; some take to, some don't. 

and i rescind my comment about liking canned corn (don't know WHAT i was thinking...). canned peas in peas salad are tolerable though.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Thanks Ann..and working for a large animal vet, how many times did you hear "Oh, the guy at the feed store told me to try..." and it was something completely off the wall?


Vets have and always will learn from their customers, and that guy at the feed store may have more practical knowledge than you think.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Vets have and always will learn from their customers, and that guy at the feed store may have more practical knowledge than you think.


and the reverse is true also. 

when the client who took the "guy at the feed store" advice, then comes to the vet for help (cause the "guy at the feed store" cure didn't work), the customer is then learning--probably the hard way--that the vet's education and PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE may be a good resource. believe me--vets don't (generally, IME) sit on their behinds and learn nothing from actually practicing medicine. just like any other job.

again, gerry, it feels like you've had some bad experiences with vets. but there ARE great ones out there.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

It's Weimaraner.
I think Jeff Oehlsen used to be a Weimariner


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> It's Weimaraner.
> I think Jeff Oehlsen used to be a Weimariner


Or in Gerry's case a "Whine-at-maren" :-o:-o:-o


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> ... how many times did you hear "Oh, the guy at the feed store told me to try..." and it was something completely off the wall?


For example, I have read "advice" on the internet about ivermectin dosage that was _a full decimal point _off (and that forgot to say anything at all about the danger to Collie types).


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> Or in Gerry's case a "Whine-at-maren" :-o:-o:-o


I'm not whining at anybody, you don't really think just because anyone on this forum is doing something for a living that automatically they are an authority in that area..do you :lol:


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I'm not whining at anybody, you don't really think just because anyone on this forum is doing something for a living that automatically they are an authority in that area..do you :lol:


No of course not but .. Maren is a hell of a lot more helpful than most anyone. She has more than once helped me out so why wouldn't I trust her? If she lived closer to me once she graduates she WOULD be my animals vet in a heartbeat.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> No of course not but .. Maren is a hell of a lot more helpful than most anyone. She has more than once helped me out so why wouldn't I trust her? If she lived closer to me once she graduates she WOULD be my animals vet in a heartbeat.


Mine too, because I think you can talk to her. That in my opinion is very desirable in a vet.

I don't mind being told to snap the **** out of it, as long as my dog and I can benefit in some way.


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Your bitch might become a little flirty and if you have any male dogs at home they might "really" start to pay attention to her now that she's on these meds.

This has happened to a friend who's 8 year old bitch just went on the meds a month ago.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

D'awww...shucks, guys. I don't know what to say. O I've met some really nice people on this forum and learned a lot about training. I know what I have to say isn't always what everyone wants to hear, but I do really want to help serve the working dog community. 

I figured out recently why there aren't that many small animal vets interested in the whole working/performance dog world. Most equine vets started out doing (or still do) competitive equestrian events or having working horses on a ranch, but most small animal vets just have pets. Which is fine (as 95% of our clients just have pets), but it does explain a lot why they don't always "get" the needs of the working/performance animal. Just like if you're an athlete, you want to go to someone who specializes in sports medicine if you get injured and want to get back in the game, not just your general practitioner.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

my ex had a boxer that did this at the age of 5...she takes the meds every day. but the girl stills makes her wear a diaper LOL....poor dog looks really really said when its diapie time


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