# K9PS call off Tx trial



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

This was the winner of the Patrol division Tx K9PS trial on his Call Off exercise. Short clip but our judge Sgt. Thomas Ravn of the Danish Air Force seemed to like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQzAUniN5fY&feature=youtu.be


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Question: how come you don't make it more realistic by having the guy running away or acting agitated and then getting the dog to call off? Seems like that would be more like real life than having a guy just stand there with his arms up.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Sarah actually a face call on a stationary decoy is more French Ring, so I'm glad you asked so I can explain the part that can't be seen. As the camera is filming the dog at the beginning, the decoy is agitating, then he runs away. 

When he turns and raises his arms to signal surrender the camera picked him up, along with the dog. But it seems with the control this team has I don't think much will keep him from succeeding whether it is a Ring sport call off or a street real deal thing.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Butch Cappel said:


> Sarah actually a face call on a stationary decoy is more French Ring, so I'm glad you asked so I can explain the part that can't be seen. As the camera is filming the dog at the beginning, the decoy is agitating, then he runs away.
> 
> When he turns and raises his arms to signal surrender the camera picked him up, along with the dog. But it seems with the control this team has I don't think much will keep him from succeeding whether it is a Ring sport call off or a street real deal thing.


I disagree. The subject may have agitated and then run but was clearly halted and stationary on the dog's release and approach. I agree the team shows alot of control and clearly alot of time and effort has been invested by this team in training and it was a pretty piece of work but you can't say the dog would have called off if they were hot on the heels of a fleeing subject in full chase mode down a street and not running to a stationary subject in a training ring.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

The dog does NOT do a call off. He does a down (after bumping the decoy? )and then he returns when he's told to "Guard". If that's your winner wtf did the other competitors look like? 

These are Mondio Ring call offs (Jeff O dogs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3F73MS74b8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp7tZ6eQCNA

Belgian Ring Call off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MMc5JEWh8o


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> The dog does NOT do a call off. He does a down (after bumping the decoy? )and then he returns when he's told to "Guard". If that's your winner wtf did the other competitors look like?


Guess that's what I get for not playing it with sound. I didn't hear what commands were given. I was just watching actions.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Didnt watch the video, but was the decoy wearing a suit or sleeve?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Sarah Platts said:


> Guess that's what I get for not playing it with sound. I didn't hear what commands were given. I was just watching actions.



I didn't even notice that he takes two commands to down, still bumps the decoy and then does a return when told to guard.
Real impressive?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Brian McQuain said:


> Didnt watch the video, but was the decoy wearing a suit or sleeve?


Full bite suit


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Are there any videos of the bitework without a suit, sleeve, or muzzle that Butch mentioned?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

not always a bad guy who surrenders .... a real "street" situation might also be when the dog is targeting the wrong person ? 
.... chances are the innocent might not stop and freeze, so a good PSD must be able to be called off when someone is scared poopless and trying to get the heck out of there

otoh, if the dog sees its reward laying next to the handler, it might be an unintentional cue that a call off is coming ?? //lol//
... which wouldn't happen that way in the real world either


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm thinking it would have been real nice to see in this trial something less "trial". How about putting the dog in a patrol car, put on the lights and siren and drive a quarter mile to an open field. Have a guy in the field dressed in shorts, t-shirt, and running shoes. Guy is standing off about 30 yards, and takes off running when the officer yells to stop or I'll send the dog. Yell a couple of times just to make it good and get the dog all agitated up. Release the dog and when the dog gets a few yards away from the runner, recall the dog as the guy keeps running.

Guy won't need any protections because all the dogs are gonna stop (_right?_) and if not then points are deducted for failure to stop, accidental bites, having to give multiple recall commands, etc When that handler gets done, he victims for the next dog. And so forth and so on. Bet that would sure make things more interesting for the spectators.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Runner gets extra points if the dog stops or fails to chase. And if the runner gets across the finish line ahead of the dog - They WIN!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Im gonna have to actually defend Butch here :-o

he posted a video of a dog doing what he calls a call off, that is all. at an event he made up, the dog did what it was supposed to for the criteria that was looked at.

The call of can be a surrender, or whatever it is designed to be, knpv long send without bite is done with decoy stationary, with hands held in front as well.

I have never had an issue personally with any of Butchs scenarios, whatever floats your boat man..dogs are out doing something.

My problem with Butch has been with his level of participation, his hype and method of promotion, and his attitude towards others who question him..that and his failure to explain what the PDV was when directly asked multiple times over and over from various people...., not with the dogs that compete at his events, or what his scenarios are.

Thomas, I saw your video with your Dutchie doing Mondio, I dont really think you can be too critical of this guys dog or his training, without being a major hypocrite.

Sarah, how many events have you written up and hosted? It is not real hard to come up with ideas. 

My question to this would be to Rick, Sarah, or Thomas are there any videos posted anywhere of your dogs doing calloffs for comparison?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Unless the K9 Pro Sports rules call for two commands to DOWN when you do a call off and commanding GUARD when you want the dog to recall? I'll stick with my critique. Feel free to defend who ever you want, for what ever reason you want.


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## Angie Stark (Jul 10, 2009)




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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> Sarah, how many events have you written up and hosted? It is not real hard to come up with ideas.
> 
> My question to this would be to Rick, Sarah, or Thomas are there any videos posted anywhere of your dogs doing calloffs for comparison?


I didn't have a problem with the call-off, other than I didn't have the sound on for the first time and didn't know the guy had given multiple commands. I liked it. Whether or not that's allowable under the testing guidelines for this event, you would have to go back to the rules and see. However, I do think that taking this structured arrangement and saying it will work in a street situation is inaccurate. Unless you set it up that way.

Since I don't do Ring stuff (and I don't think I've ever said that I did nor do I train in it) then I've never set up an event but think that it would be a great scenario to set up to make it more street-like. Now that being said, how many of the people here are working the streets? Probably not very many and then why do it. If its all for pretend and show then current arrangement suffices. But I do like events that are more fun, getting people/dogs into doing stuff they've never done before, and make it less rote.


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## Michael Joubert (Jul 17, 2012)

I didn't watch the video. But if I recall correctly Butch doesn't require specific terms for OB. It is my understanding that if you train your dog to heel to the command banana, you say banana and the dog heels you're good to go.

Did the video show dogs that did better? If not is it reasonable to believe that this dog and handler performed better than the rest of the entries?


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Hmmm, I guess you can teach it any way you want to but I train my dog to call off an active guy running away and/or charging. I have actually been in the real life call off situation at least twice but the people he was going after knew not to run (working dog folk). I have a feeling non dog folk would take off running and squealing making it much, much harder to call a dog off a prey item especially a very highly driven dog. This is my dog calling off and that's how I like it but to each their own I suppose  

http://www.youtube.com/edit?ns=1&video_id=ImTnOmkIRF0


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## Angie Stark (Jul 10, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> http://www.youtube.com/edit?ns=1&video_id=ImTnOmkIRF0


 link doesnt work


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Butch Cappel said:


> This was the winner of the Patrol division Tx K9PS trial on his Call Off exercise. Short clip but our judge Sgt. Thomas Ravn of the Danish Air Force seemed to like it.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQzAUniN5fY&feature=youtu.be


Good job Butch. Nice to see people doing stuff like this.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Butch Cappel said:


> Sarah actually a face call on a stationary decoy is more French Ring, so I'm glad you asked so I can explain the part that can't be seen. As the camera is filming the dog at the beginning, the decoy is agitating, then he runs away.
> 
> When he turns and raises his arms to signal surrender the camera picked him up, along with the dog. But it seems with the control this team has I don't think much will keep him from succeeding whether it is a Ring sport call off or a street real deal thing.


The decoy is anything but stationary during the call off in FR. The decoy has to freeze on the recall command but, that's when the dog is only 2 meters away from the decoy.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Jason, Thank you for the correction. 
Ben, I agree it's nice to see people trying with their dogs, and nicer to see people on the internet encouraging young folks that try.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Angie Stark said:


> link doesnt work


ouTube







* shakes fist at you tube * ok this one works.... my dog calling off active running dude... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImTnOmkIRF0


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

^^^^^^^^^^

That's a call off


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Butch Cappel said:


> Jason, Thank you for the correction.
> Ben, I agree it's nice to see people trying with their dogs, and nicer to see people on the internet encouraging young folks that try.



Nice try at spinning there Butch.
You're original post described 

"This was the winner of the Patrol division Tx K9PS trial on his Call Off exercise". 

Now instead of someone working as a LEO or ? and winning the trial and being liked by Tom Ravn. We have "young folks that try" LOL


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Nice try at spinning there Butch.
> You're original post described
> 
> "This was the winner of the Patrol division Tx K9PS trial on his Call Off exercise".
> ...


Thomas, do you know what the Patrol Division of K9PS is, or what it entails? 

I must have missed where anyone said it had anything to do with LEO, can you point that out?..


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> ouTube
> 
> Calling off the dog at 15 meters doesn't count;-)
> 
> ...


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## Jennifer Thornton (Dec 12, 2010)

Angie Stark said:


>


X2


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Joby, Thanks for the reason and common sense, had I pointed out the obvious, I never said anything about law enforcement, it would have been labled 'hype.'


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Call off at 1:05...


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Austin Porter said:


> Call off at 1:05...


Forgot the link sorry lol.... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtwRiEjNwBQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

very nice work Austin !
give that dog a steak on me next time


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

"calling off at 15 meters doesn't count"


Good thing me and my shitter do PSA then, Jason *wipes sweat off brow*


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

rick smith said:


> very nice work Austin !
> give that dog a steak on me next time


Thanks Rick.. lol the next time she gets some red meat ill let her know its from you!

If i can get her "trial" ready, i may take Indie down to the K9PS trial in Arkansas lol..  Joking.

I am seriously considering going to watch though, My mom lives in Bentonville so i might make a trip of it.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Butch Cappel said:


> Joby, Thanks for the reason and common sense, had I pointed out the obvious, I never said anything about law enforcement, it would have been labled 'hype.'


My quote was 

"Now instead of someone working as a LEO or ?"

What kind of dog does Patrol work, besides LE, Security or a MWD ? Now if your winner video shows some kid playing at having a "patrol dog"? That explains a lot.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Austin Porter said:


> Thanks Rick.. lol the next time she gets some red meat ill let her know its from you!
> 
> If i can get her "trial" ready, i may take Indie down to the K9PS trial in Arkansas lol..  Joking.
> 
> I am seriously considering going to watch though, My mom lives in Bentonville so i might make a trip of it.


Austin, 

Don't waste your time on a local trial. Wait for the K9 ProSports
World Championship. Can you imagine what kind of puppy prices you could get if Indie was a WORLD CHAMPION?


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

lol I know it man.. Im already seeing dollar signs $$$$$$$$

All joking aside.. Has anyone on WDF been to a K9PS event? Most curious about the decoys


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

I have seen some vid but it was all pretty old


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Austin Porter said:


> lol I know it man.. Im already seeing dollar signs $$$$$$$$
> 
> All joking aside.. Has anyone on WDF been to a K9PS event? Most curious about the decoys


The decoy in the Patrol Division call off video looks like Butch hisself? Heck I could do that kind of "decoy" work? Stand still? check Raise my hands? check. Don't move too far when the dog bumps on the down? Check. 
I knew a decoy that I used to train with (MP K9 EDD handler) he went to observe a K9 Pro Sports trial while he was at Lackland. The trial decoy was a no show and Butch "certified" my friend on the spot and he worked the trial.


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