# elephant skin



## colby clark (Mar 31, 2008)

Has anyone every seen a case of elephant skin. I have a female gsd, that was previously mistreated. I just got her yesterday. She is a 7 yr old lord granddaughter, with a great temperment but is very thin, the tips of her ears are bleeding because of deer flys, and she has no hair on the backs of her rear legs. The skin in these areas looks rough and is dark grey in color. I took her to the local vet to get her checked and he said it was elephant skin. I've never seen this and would like to correct it, the vet said he could remove the skin and it would clear up but i'm going to get a second opinion. I was wondering if any of you have ever seen anything like this?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

colby clark said:


> Has anyone every seen a case of elephant skin. I have a female gsd, that was previously mistreated. I just got her yesterday. She is a 7 yr old lord granddaughter, with a great temperment but is very thin, the tips of her ears are bleeding because of deer flys, and she has no hair on the backs of her rear legs. The skin in these areas looks rough and is dark grey in color. I took her to the local vet to get her checked and he said it was elephant skin. I've never seen this and would like to correct it, the vet said he could remove the skin and it would clear up but i'm going to get a second opinion. I was wondering if any of you have ever seen anything like this?



What did he say was the real diagnosis? Elephant skin is just a layman's term for the thickening and darkening that can be caused by (for example) yeast infection of the skin.

The real question is what is causing it. What did he say was causing it (or had caused it)?

Remove the skin? Are you sure that's what the vet said?


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## colby clark (Mar 31, 2008)

He never really said what the cause was and yes he said he could remove the loose skin pull it back together and stich it up so that you couldn't tell it was ever there. What could cause this, it doesn't seem to bother her but i would like to correct it. She would be a beautiful dog if it weren't for these places on her legs.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

colby clark said:


> He never really said what the cause was and yes he said he could remove the loose skin pull it back together and stich it up so that you couldn't tell it was ever there. What could cause this, it doesn't seem to bother her but i would like to correct it. She would be a beautiful dog if it weren't for these places on her legs.




I'd want an actual diagnosis and a professional idea as to whether the cause had now cleared up. What some people refer to as elephant skin can be triggered by chronic infections (bacterial, demodex, fungus), allergy (flea, food, atopy), and seborrheic skin ailments, along with yeast dermatitis (actually called Malassezia pachydermatitis), so saying that "It's elephant skin; let's cut it off" sounds strange. 

If you could maybe call back or look at the vet paperwork and post something more..... or if that's all the vet said, then say you want to know where it came from and why does the vet believe that the cause is no longer a problem.....

Maybe Maren (who is in vet school) will see this and will know of something else called elephant skin.

Anyway, your question about a second opinion..... my own answer would be "absolutely."


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Oh, and you asked if anyone had seen this. I have, but it was on different parts of the body --- more than once caused by Malassezia pachydermatitis and once by Cushing's.

I wish I knew if there was a whole 'nother "elephant skin" thing that's removable, etc.

I just looked in a couple of vet med manuals, but couldn't find anything nicknamed elephant skin that sounds like it's just cut-off-able.

Is it the upper or lower legs?


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Given that the dog was mistreated, my first thought is wondering about the cause being long-term contact with urine/feces. 

I've seen it once in the most horrific neglect case you can imagine. In that case, the vet said that the skin would remain thickened and darker and the hair would grow in a different (darker) color and stated there was no treatment available.


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## colby clark (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm going to take her to the MSU vet school tomorrow. It doesn't seem like this is something that could just be cut off to me either, that's why i wanted a second opinion. I just wondered if someone on here knew of something like this.Have the cases you've seen been curable?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Do you have any pictures you can post? Is it itchy at all or just kind of "there?" I haven't heard of "elephant skin" yet, but then again, I haven't taken dermatology yet either. I do know that in canine Cushing's (hyperadrenalcorticism), the skin can look dark like that with pigmentation and you'll often find it to be very rough and sharp, kind of like rubbing your hands on shark skin backwards, which is called calcinosis cutis and it's usually on the main part of the body. 

Canine pyoderma is another problem in dogs, often caused by _Staphylococcus intermedius_ or _Staphylococcus schleiferi_. Here's a pretty brief article on superficial pyoderma:

http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=94402

In cases of deep or chronic pyoderma, glucocorticoids ("steroids") are not indicated, as they are immunosuppressive, but antibiotics are. They'll probably want to take a sample of the area and see what they can culture bacteria wise. Special shampoos of benzoyl peroxide are often used as well. 

From a holistic perspective, natural anti-inflammatories like vitamin C (1000-2000 mg of ester C a day is fine) and fish oil (1 g or capsule for every 10-20 lbs of body weight is fine) wouldn't be a bad idea. 

For the fly strike bites on her ears, I'd carefully give them a good cleaning with a gentle shampoo (making sure not to get anything down the ear canal) to make sure there is no debris (or fly eggs, eww!) and put a triple antibiotic (generic Neosporin is fine) on there until the doctors at MSU can have a look. If she starts itching the ears and making them bleed again, an e-collar might be helpful. Good luck with her, poor girl!


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## colby clark (Mar 31, 2008)

Thanks for the help. I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them. Like I said I'm going to take her to MSU tomorrow,if i can get in. I would think out of all the vets and eqip there, someone can figure it out. Oh,and no it does seem to itch at all,I haven't seen her act like she even knows it's there.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

colby clark said:


> Thanks for the help. I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them. Like I said I'm going to take her to MSU tomorrow,if i can get in. I would think out of all the vets and eqip there, someone can figure it out. Oh,and no it does seem to itch at all,I haven't seen her act like she even knows it's there.


Do you have a derm vet around?


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## colby clark (Mar 31, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Do you have a derm vet around?


No, all we have locally are general practice vets.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

colby clark said:


> No, all we have locally are general practice vets.


Well, then I would ask for even a phone appointment to ask all the questions asked here. 

Even the question about where he thinks the elephant skin came from would help, because I know I sure wouldn't want to remove something surgically that no one (vet included) had any idea where it came from or whether the cause was gone.

He may indeed know all this but just didn't talk much.

It would help a ton in figuring out how much additional professional help you may need before acting on it.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Our vet school has a board certified dermatologist that comes for appointments every other week at the teaching hospital (he's in Kansas City). I'd suspect that if they didn't have someone there all the time at MSU, there's probably some other arrangement, like at Mizzou.


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## colby clark (Mar 31, 2008)

Monday is the earliest i could get into MSU, so I guess I'll just have to wait till then. I'm going to go back in a few min and talked to the vet that examined her and see if I can get more detailed info. It's not like him not to tell everything though,he knows all of my family and is a very talkative person.Also, I'll try to get some pics up this afternoon.Thanks


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