# Tattooing vs Microchipping



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

So most pet folks these days seem to prefer microchipping, as do I. How many folks are still doing tattoos? I'm trying to decide about getting either an ear clamp set or a tattoo gun based on demand (if there still is much demand), as they are not super expensive, but I'm keeping costs to a minimum for startup.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i may be in the minority, but i am against both
and particularly against any law or regulation that mandates either

it's a good idea in theory, but

- the statistics that try and prove the validity and benefits are flawed
- it won't make a thief return the dog, and responsible owners hardly ever get their dogs stolen
- kids are just as easy to lose and they don't have to tagged and are more important than dogs
- there is a very small chance of a chip causing health problems and that goes to zero if it isn't implanted in the first place
- too many types of chips and readers; nothing standard. a dog coming here to train in Japan has now had 3 chips implanted in four years :-(
- responsible owners don't lose dogs

- of course my views don't matter to anyone except me


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

btw, i realize there are situations where dogs are considered property and need some form of "ID" 
- chips or tattoos both have pros and cons as to which is better

but if implanting a chip or tattooing would ever make the owner even the slightest bit complacent about controlling their dog, it would be a bad step in the wrong direction, and if i was gonna mark a dog i would make a very strong effort to maker that clear b4 ever doing it !!!

- also since a lot of us now live in a "tat" oriented society, if they thought an ear tattoo makes their dog look cooler or "badder", i DEFINITELY wouldn't do it for that reason, so i would want to make sure that didn't apply either !


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

If the dog does not already have a chip and a tattoo, I do both, myself. 

As far as laws go, I am against restrictive regulation either way, bans or mandates... It's my dog and my decision what I do with it.

Advantages and disadvantages to both... Chips are harder to find/remove, last forever, can be scanned by many vets/shelters here(USA). As Rick says, lots of variety of chips/scanners and nothing standard - your dog may get scanned and the chip not detected, and also who checks the chips and in what registry database?? Chips also migrate or get rejected by the body. My bitch has a chip that was implanted above the shoulderblade and has migrated into the skin layer over the front point of the shoulder joint. It can be easily removed or damaged, or may yet come out on it's own. My other dogs chips have stayed where put though. So far, no health problems that I'm aware of.

Tattoo is not as pleasant to first put in. I use the ear clamp. A little anesthetic prior makes the whole thing much easier but it's still a bloody messy job. However, tattoo is harder to alter undetectably and can't be removed unless you lop off the whole ear. As far as ID goes, it is there, and very very visible in my pointy eared dogs. In a difficult dog, ear tattoo is easier to show than thigh, belly, etc. As far as tracing, that's much harder than with a chip, there is no standard code, and no central registering database, as far as I know. Anyone can tattoo the dog with anything they want.

For proving ownership, and in case I find you in posession of my lost or stolen dog, I like to have both. 

For helping a found/rescued dog get back home, you still can't beat a solid collar and tag with several phone numbers!!


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I chip mine. Do I think it should be law? No, I don't - it should remain optional for the owner. Is it mandated for me? Yes it is, I am moving into base housing in NY and it is one of their requirements that my dogs be licensed and microchipped - however that does not say what kind of microchip I can use.

I use 15 digit HomeAgain (134 hz) ISO chips. Can be read with a Universal scanner. Only had mine checked out after I placed them to make sure the numbers matched up and that they were in their proper place - they are. 

I would certainly consider the ear clamp style tattoos for my dogs, but not the thighs or other parts of the body due to the fact the dog would have to be sedated to do it, and unless I was already going in for something, I don't see the point.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

picking nits, but i'm curious about how "they" determined the best location for placement of microchips - seems most go in behind neck and between shoulders ??
...anyone know the history ?

1. is that because the dog can't "get to it" if it bothers them, or is it anatomically based on that area being the most stable place and not promoting migrating or reactions, etc ?

2. or just one of those unwritten "always done it that way" and that's where people would probably scan to look for one, etc ?

3. i'm no vet but maybe there are better locations where there is not so much movement, if that causes migration, that would be better for the dog


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Rick, it depends on the animal also, so there must be some kind of reasoning behind it? Llamas are chipped by the base of the tail or their necks, and horses in the meaty part of their necks. 
However, that's a great questions and something I couldn't find on a google search, now I"m curious too.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I tattoo all pups before they leave my house, and any adult dogs that I get who do not already have a tattoo. Chips are on more of an "as I think about it" basis. I tattoo for a couple of reasons. First the pups who go to French Ring or Schutzhund homes are going to need a tattoo, but second it gives me peace of mind as a breeder. When I hear about a dog in the pound or rescue it's easy, if they don't have a tattoo, or it's not in my format, then I don't have to worry that it's one of my dogs. 

I see pros and cons for both. Some tattoos fade, and can become difficult to read. But on the flip side I see many chips that can't be read either. A friend is having their dog rechipped because the current chip can be read by some readers, but not others. And the readers are all for that brand of chip, so it's not like it's a case of a Home Again reader and an Avid chip. I've seen the same thing judging FR trials, at every trial I have judged we've been unable to find/read the chip in at least 1 dog. In some cases the dog was just chipped a week or two before, and the chip was read then, but at the trial, nothing.

I've also had chips migrate, Cali's migrated all the way down to about 1 inch above her elbow, the vet said if it went any further we'd have to remove it to prevent it from getting into the joint. It stopped going down, and is now migrating back up towards her shoulder. 

If theft is a problem, I think chips are actually easier to negate than a tattoo, easy to find and remove, but they can also be ruined without removing them (no, I'm not going to say how). A tattoo has to be altered, or the body part removed.

All that said, for you Maren I would probably stock mainly chips, I think that's what the general public wants. If you go with tattoo's, get a small animal/livestock tattoo kit. WAY cheaper than any of the kits marketed for dogs, and works the same way. And quite a bit cheaper than the tattoo guns.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Ashley Campbell said:


> not the thighs or other parts of the body due to the fact the dog would have to be sedated to do it, and unless I was already going in for something, I don't see the point.


They don't have to be sedated. I tell people if you can do the dogs nails, I can tattoo it. If you can't do the nails, I still might be able to tattoo it but we might need a few more people and a muzzle LOL My personal dogs I just put on a down/stay, and tattoo without help. I don't know if they still do it anymore because chips are more popular, but it used to be that you could find a tattooer at AKC dog shows, they would have a booth set up and tattoo 100+ dogs in one day. Put them on the table, owner by the head, helper to keep the back leg not being tattooed from kicking the tattooer in the head, do the tattoo, next dog please. I think in all the years I've been tattooing dogs I've only had to have the owners get Ace for two of them.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Ear tatoo, much easier to show the judge at trial than worrying about the reader finding and reading the chip.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren

Bill Boatman sells a nice ear clamp tattoo kit for under $100.
I've had one for years and never had any problems Page 41
http://www.billboatmancoinc.com/2011_1_2_bbc_catalog.pdf
I'd offer both if I were you


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

maren, go with the ear clamp tattoo--easy, quick, permanent (much easier than a tattoo gun). Ike is both tattoo'd and chipped, the tattoo is very easy to read, and i've used the ear clamp tattoo for years on my goats.


----------



## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

I prefer both, the ear tattoo is more visible than any other method of identification, tags can fall off, collars can be removed (and are a danger for a kennel dog), microchips are becoming more recognizable to shelters and vets - most will scan a new dog. Both microchip and tattoos can be registered with any of the ID registries, including the AKC.

I sold a pup that was both micro-chipped and tattooed, he was stolen out of his yard as an adult, and then returned, best guess is they saw the tattoo and decided it wasn't worth the risk of being caught. 'Lost Dog - Has Ear Tattoo'

Any other location you can't see with a casual glance, same goes for a microchip. ISO Microchips are required for travel to EU countries.

Ang


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

rick smith said:


> - responsible owners don't lose dogs
> 
> - of course my views don't matter to anyone except me


I disagree that responsible owners don't lose dogs. There were 1240 animals that ended up at the Joplin Humane Society after the EF-5 tornado. Less than half of those animals were reunited. A few of them (less than a hundred, from what I heard) were given up to the shelter because the tornado victims lost everything and had to move or be in housing that doesn't accept pets, etc, but the rest just didn't get back with their owners. There were 8000 animals caught and either reunited or adopted out by the ASPCA for Hurricane Katrina. When I went to the ASPCA's site, they mentioned they are sheltering 500 animals for floods in North Dakota. A few weeks after the last time I worked down in Joplin after the tornado, I took a SEMA sponsored emergency animal sheltering course, which really drove home the fact that natural disasters happen and people get separated from their pets. Ideally, probably all three forms of ID (tags, microchip, tattoo) is going to be the best.

For the microchips I'll be performing, I'm likely going to go with a company that registers the owner right then and there with a one time fee, not extra paperwork that you have to send in later (and forget, BTDT) and yearly fees that people let lapse. When a new patient comes in for a checkup or a patient comes in for their yearly exam, I will scan them each time to make sure it's still good. When I worked with the Joplin Humane Society (I did the pre-surgery exams before they got spayed/neutered), I scan down to the elbows and point of the shoulder and across the whole back. It's not personally happened to me, but I have heard of colleagues actually finding stolen dogs this way by scanning for every new client (sometimes the new owner isn't actually at fault, they were sold a stolen or lost dog). And people appreciate knowing their chips still work.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

The most effective means of dog identification is the ID collar. If the dog is lost, anyone can call the number on the collar right then and there. If the dog is stolen, not likely they are going to take it to the vet and ask them to see if the dog is microchipped.


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So most pet folks these days seem to prefer microchipping, as do I. How many folks are still doing tattoos? I'm trying to decide about getting either an ear clamp set or a tattoo gun based on demand (if there still is much demand), as they are not super expensive, but I'm keeping costs to a minimum for startup.


After having quite a few of my training clients get dogs back and knowing people in the rescue world that have returned a ton of chipped dogs, I think it's absolutely foolish to not have the dog chipped. Everydog that comes into a shelter is checked. Even if there is only a 50% chance of them finding the chip, that's 100% more chance than if the dog is not chipped. 

And I think that chips should be mandatory, just like a dog license. Just think about it, if a car is abandoned on the side of the road the state will charge you for it's removal, storage and final disposition. We should be able to charge people who abandon their dogs too.


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> If the dog is stolen, not likely they are going to take it to the vet and ask them to see if the dog is microchipped.


If they steal the dog do you think they are going to leave the collar on him? And when the thief does have your dog, minus your collar, how can you prove the dog is yours? You are making the case for chips Don. 

A collar is a great identification tool and all dogs should be wearing one. But it's not going to do shit to stop a dog thief.


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Ear tatoo, much easier to show the judge at trial than worrying about the reader finding and reading the chip.


Sue, at the judges meeting a few weeks ago we were instructed that we must check for BOTH chip and tattoo on every dog. This is because the ID check is part of the temperament evaluation and all dogs should be tested in the same way. Does this make sense?


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

For CKC I have to do one or the other - tattoo or chip. I had a nice tattoo gun and did them without sedation but the guns are expensive (as are readers) and if you have a dog going to EU you need an ISO compliant microchip so that is what I use now and the microchips are easier to install. Pluses and minuses for either method - tats can be read by anybody (if they are clear enough) and microchips you need the appropriate reader. Tattoos can fade over time, microchips can migrate. I am not really worried about health risks with chips. I still put contact ID on collars but like the idea that I can be contacted if once of my dogs ends up in the pound etc.


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

rick smith said:


> picking nits, but i'm curious about how "they" determined the best location for placement of microchips - seems most go in behind neck and between shoulders ??
> ...anyone know the history ?
> 
> 1. is that because the dog can't "get to it" if it bothers them, or is it anatomically based on that area being the most stable place and not promoting migrating or reactions, etc ?
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(animal)


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

they don't tattoo anymore over here (animal cruelty thing or so). we let the vet chip the puppies with their first shot (cant diy over here).


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> If they steal the dog do you think they are going to leave the collar on him? And when the thief does have your dog, minus your collar, how can you prove the dog is yours? You are making the case for chips Don.
> 
> A collar is a great identification tool and all dogs should be wearing one. But it's not going to do shit to stop a dog thief.


True on the collar! The only time I've ever lost one of my dogs (as an adult) was one afternoon about 5 years ago when we had the garage door open and the inner door that lead to the garage somehow came open and I had two dogs, one of mine and a foster, slip out. We didn't realize it for a couple hours until I walked outside to get the mail and there was the foster dog sitting on the porch. :lol: 

I called animal control when I couldn't find our dog (Mal/GSD X) to report him missing as I said I have large red dog that looks like a German shepherd without a saddle. They told me that they had not seen him. Turns out, they did actually pick him up and even scanned him for the microchip, but the microchip was registered under my husband's old cell phone. He had gotten into the subdivision lake a few blocks away, got completely filthy dirty in the mud so didn't even look "red" anymore to the ACO, and somehow lost his collar and tags with this whole venture. ](*,) We went down to the shelter to look for him just in case, and sure enough, there he was. So my lesson was tags can be lost and don't forget to update the info on your microchips!


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So my lesson was tags can be lost and don't forget to update the info on your microchips!


Yep, you have to keep the info updated. Did you know that you can leave a lot of contact numbers with all of the chip services. For my dogs I have tend ways for them to contact me. I have my info along with the wife's cell and work numbers. I also have numbers for my mom, brother and a few friends. They also have my email.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

That's one helpful tip that I learned from the SEMA class is to put a contact number of a friend or family member or the dog's breeder or whatever that's at least one state away (or several hundred kilometers for non-US folks). That way, if some crazy natural disaster like Hurricane Katrina or a tsunami happens, they'll be able to hopefully reach someone beyond just your numbers and local friends/neighbors.


----------



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> That's one helpful tip that I learned from the SEMA class is to put a contact number of a friend or family member or the dog's breeder or whatever that's at least one state away (or several hundred kilometers for non-US folks). That way, if some crazy natural disaster like Hurricane Katrina or a tsunami happens, they'll be able to hopefully reach someone beyond just your numbers and local friends/neighbors.


That is a good tip. I do a few contact people, but never thought of it from a general disaster point of view. Figured if the dogs are in a car accident with us and escape it won't help any one if we're the only people listed as contacts.

Either way, back on topic... I hate the look of tattoos in dog's ears. They remind me of concentration camp tattoos and I think they just look fugly. Kinda makes you wanna put some spit on your thumb and rub that ear  I do see how that would be an obvious visible spot though and easily identifiable in case of a stolen dog. 

I'm all for chips.. all my dogs are chipped because I know the first thing any vet or shelter does when a lost dog is presented is scan for a chip. It's very universal and is becoming very common. I think the average pet person wouldn't even know that dogs can get a tattoo for ID. 

For ultimate ID and security, I would get both, as both can fail. But if I was to pick one, it would be a chip.

BTW, I have no idea how dog tattoos are read, what does happens if a shelter picks up a dog and notices a tattoo? Is there some tattoo registry some where they can call? Is there a universal way to reading what the tattoo means? Or is it some thing they would just list in their found dog ad and hope some one who knows what it means reads it. Which really would not help in getting the lost dog home if the person looking for the dog doesn't some how come into contact with the lost dog by chance or through effort. So in case a dog gets lost far away from home, eg while in transport or while at competition unless you can really spread the word out about this dog being missing and how to ID him, he could easily be found but left as "lost" to the owner if some one is unable to decipher the ID.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

True, I think tattoos are good for proving your dog is yours. I even heard of one professional tattoo artist who asked the vet if he could tattoo his dog with a small design while he was under general anesthesia for a neuter and then he tattooed the same design on his wife's arm. Kinda hard to disprove that! :smile: I don't know how good they are at reuniting people...most shelters wouldn't see a thigh tattoo until they looked for a spay scar on a female before she was adopted out. My dog's tattoo (that Kadi did, haha) is on his thigh and you can't see it easily unless you wet the fur down. I'm more used to reading tattoos in cattle ears and they can be very difficult to read in black cattle.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> Sue, at the judges meeting a few weeks ago we were instructed that we must check for BOTH chip and tattoo on every dog. This is because the ID check is part of the temperament evaluation and all dogs should be tested in the same way. Does this make sense?


Makes sense. Mine is chipped too (had to, in order to have an intact male dog licensed in Los Angeles County, he must be chipped, among other things). The reason I don't want to go with chip only is because my friends dog is chipped only & the reader had a hell of a time finding the chip at regionals a couple years ago.


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

If the tattoo is from a CKC breeder, it's on file at the CKC and you can search it from their site. Microchip numbers, too, I think. I would guess that an AKC breeder's tattoo is similar.

If it's just a tattoo, like the one I put in my Dutchie's ear, it's only useful for me to identify her.


----------



## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

leslie cassian said:


> If the tattoo is from a CKC breeder, it's on file at the CKC and you can search it from their site. Microchip numbers, too, I think. I would guess that an AKC breeder's tattoo is similar.
> 
> If it's just a tattoo, like the one I put in my Dutchie's ear, it's only useful for me to identify her.


You can register a tattoo number with the AKC through their CAR program. You can also register a tattoo number with http://www.nationaldogregistry.com/

I also believe, though could be wrong on this, that registry agencies such as HomeAgain and Avid allow for tattoo info to be registered along with microchip info.

Ang


----------



## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> For the microchips I'll be performing, I'm likely going to go with a company that registers the owner right then and there with a one time fee, not extra paperwork that you have to send in later (and forget, BTDT) and yearly fees that people let lapse. When a new patient comes in for a checkup or a patient comes in for their yearly exam, I will scan them each time to make sure it's still good. When I worked with the Joplin Humane Society (I did the pre-surgery exams before they got spayed/neutered), I scan down to the elbows and point of the shoulder and across the whole back. It's not personally happened to me, but I have heard of colleagues actually finding stolen dogs this way by scanning for every new client (sometimes the new owner isn't actually at fault, they were sold a stolen or lost dog). And people appreciate knowing their chips still work.


When deciding between Avid and HomeAgain I went with HomeAgain microchips because they are less likely to migrate. I've heard of a number of Avids that are all over the animals, but don't know of any HomeAgains that have done the same.

For those of you who have had microchips migrate, what manufacturer were they?

Ang


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> If they steal the dog do you think they are going to leave the collar on him? And when the thief does have your dog, minus your collar, how can you prove the dog is yours? You are making the case for chips Don.
> 
> A collar is a great identification tool and all dogs should be wearing one. But it's not going to do shit to stop a dog thief.


I am not making a case for microchipping at all. If I, or anyone else wanted to STEAL a dog, it wouldn't make any difference what kind of ID it had. The only time a microchip would make a difference is if you got to court which seldom happens. Id really is only a factor if the dog is lost. I have used ID collars for years and honest people call. In the hunting world, competition dogs have been tattoed for years and people still steal the. Heck I know of dogs that have been stolen that were freeze branded where you could see the brand from 1/2 a football field away. No ID will keep a dog from getting stolen, but, if it makes you feel better to think it will, so be it.


----------



## Rina Rivamonte (Jan 11, 2011)

Ang Cangiano said:


> For those of you who have had microchips migrate, what manufacturer were they?


Not a dog but my cat's HomeAgain has migrated pretty far down his back. He got the chip in at 1.5 years. His chip he got at Banfield (forgot the name) at 3 years old is still where they inserted it.


----------



## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

All of my dogs are chipped. No problems so far with migration or rejection. I also submit all puppy registrations with chip numbers to prevent paper hanging. 

I use the CAR chip system. I love it. Free updates and one time membership fees. 

When they come up with a better way to identify dogs I'll use that but until then. Tags and chips.


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

HomeAgain charges like $16 initially and you can renew it or not, and still update all your chip info. I let mine expire this year and was still able to log in and change my address and whatnot.


----------

