# Thinking of starting a club, meeting in parks?



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

I'm thinking of just starting a ring club in Toronto, kinda wanna see if "if you build it they will come" rings true. What's the worse thing that can happen, I'll get out to train my dogs and will be the only car in the parking lot. 

I think for starters I would just designate some big empty field in the city, shouldn't be too hard to find. We have hydro fields running through suburbia that are fairly deserted and some have parking near by. There are some large industrial areas, with vast empty parking lots.. etc 

We could organize trips to Esa's for protection, bring other decoys in for seminars, hopefully recruit a decoy, and if the interest is there get our own field. 

Can any one share any experiences with organizing training groups in such spaces?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Hey Marta, that's a great idea. It's how most clubs start, I think. With training in public parks and private land, it's best to look for insurance. In public, if it's more than just you and another person or two, I'd probably ask permission. Also look up your city's code on if dogs are allowed to be off leash if they are undergoing training (our city has this as an exception for the leash law). Not sure about where you live, but in our area, some people have acreage which is very suitable for training as well, but that person needs to be a very regular member of the group or you can run into problems if you want your regular training day and they are having friends over that day, are on vacation, that sort of thing. Probably also should decide what the leadership structure is going to be, like if you guys are going to be a formal club or informal training group, have officers or not, have a training director "in charge" or just everyone kind of doing their own thing, but all helping each other, that sort of thing. Then there's the money issue. I like informal groups best, but then there's the problem of needing a new suit or sleeves, like the big expenses and how to pay for that. So you have to decide if you're just going to pay dues that includes everything (very difficult in the beginning to keep that price low when you're buying equipment!) or just pay as you go and vote on equipment purchases and chip in money as necessary. Our club is going through that right now as we need a reliable decoy and a suit. I've been part of not one but two clubs where one person has run off with a significant amount of money out of the checking account. :evil: So the people in charge of the money absolutely need to be beyond reproach. 

If you are going to be a formal club, then you also may be required to put on so many trials. I kind of like the idea of two or three small clubs in a larger metropolitan area (like Toronto) and them coming together to co-host trials. I also like the idea of "dog sport festivals" where you have something like Schutzhund one day, Ring another day, and PSA the next so everyone can work together and enjoy each other's sports. It's also cheaper to rent out a venue for the weekend like that too. Probably way more imput than you needed, but I say go for it! Get a Facebook group going (since they're free) and you never know who will come out of the woodwork to train. Good luck.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

OH! OH! Pick me, pick me! I would love it if someone would start a Ring club. 

What can I do to help?


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Maren it would definitely be an informal training group to start off with. My main goal would be to get people to come out, start to create some thing regular and organized, bring new people into the sport.. A formal club would be some time down the road once there are a few of us and there is confirmed interest and at least a couple more people willing to share the responsibility. 

Leslie if you're up for it I would love to have you!


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

We have just that. A group that trains on public land We train in public parks. A few tips. Do not train with a sleeve. use a bite pillow. You put a sleeve on and people go crazy, use a bite pillow and your just some joe at the park. Stick hits. Becareful, save those for the days the park is empty. hit a dog and the wrong person sees it. You will be explaining to animal control what your doing. If the cops come, you generally have some whom may have clue or you can have them contact the k9 unit and explain what you are doing.

We found the best place is training by our local k9 police field, we train right next to it.

As for insurance. you have to build a formal club. I do not know of an insurance company for dog sport that will take without listing officers, that sort of thing. and generally most insurance policies only cover the officers if they get sued.

We contacted my works legal for this, and as long as everyone has personal liablity often carried ontop of homeowners or renters your cool.

As for leashes. It's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. If you ask for permission people start asking questions. If you just go, most people will leave you alone. We have been asked to leave 2 places. both times it was for using a sleeve and training "attack dogs".


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## Cassandra Lane (Jul 2, 2010)

I would love to help in any way possible- I think this is an awsome idea!


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Well the ball is rolling.. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/202163476509739/

and tonight I found a pretty good field for training meet ups.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

just be aware of some people upset with the use of the clatter stick on the dog...for the most part I think you will draw a crowd- not sure if you could afford something like a poster to explain ring and some of the equipment and exercises done- they had a poster board at a stock dog competition-explaining the animals would be herded,not injured and some of the basic rules of the handler and pattern were explained-it helped a lot. Good luck


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## Leslie Patterson (Mar 6, 2008)

I would love to come out and see Ring training sometime. I think you will have a hard time finding public parks close to the city where you can do protection training, people complain.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Mo Earle said:


> just be aware of some people upset with the use of the clatter stick on the dog...for the most part I think you will draw a crowd- not sure if you could afford something like a poster to explain ring and some of the equipment and exercises done- they had a poster board at a stock dog competition-explaining the animals would be herded,not injured and some of the basic rules of the handler and pattern were explained-it helped a lot. Good luck


well there will be no real protection training for now as we don't even have a decoy, so this will be obedience stuff for the most part. There is a secluded corner in that space where we could possibly do some protections stuff but will have to put the space to a working trial first. 

I'm still on the look out for more locations, ideally I would love to find something even more private.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Would it be possible to just rent out a field currently being used for Sch? 

Is there still a sch club using a field on Warden and hwy 7 area, or is there a highrise there now LOL? I remember seeing the blinds and A frame long before I knew what sch was.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

You need to start out with a good TD and a good helper. You can build a club anywhere if you have those.


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## Tammy Cohen (Dec 21, 2008)

People do think protection work is animal abuse so don't be surprised if people complain....and try to have you sent to prison. :roll:

We have an informal group of about 7-8 people who get together once a week to train. We go to a few different places. One of the places we go is to a park on a pretty secluded road right by a shooting range. There's hardly a soul around. 

One day a woman was walking by and all she saw was a few cars parked with dogs in them and me walking and playing with my malinois puppy. She asked what kind of dog he was and since she had never heard of it I told her how they are often used for police, military and protection sports. I really did not elaborate much more than that and she FLIPPED HER LID! I tried to tell her that the dogs have fun and enjoy the training, she wasn't hearing it. Her friend had to basically drag her away while she was telling me how cruel it is etc, etc. She was ranting and raving and flailing her arms as they went down the road. 

The following week the person from the town in charge of the park came down after getting "complaints" about us. She didn't bother to introduce herself though, as we were standing there (not training at the moment) she came over with her hands on her hips, treating us like we are 5 years old, demanding to know exactly what we were doing, looking at the equipment on the ground asking "what's that for? What's this for?" Then she abruptly called the police without a moments pause. When the officer arrived he was less than understanding. Even though several of the guys there train with nearby police all the time he didn't care. He sided with the charming woman and said that the sign on the park entrance says that dogs have to be on leash. Mind you, our dogs were on leash and the sign didn't say that. We pointed that out. Still didn't matter, despite our best efforts to be as polite and cooperative as possible they told us that we can't train there and we had to leave. The woman actually suggested that we go to the dog park. :lol: Yeah, THAT'S a good idea. My boyfriend and I run a business up the road and apparently the $35,000/ year in taxes isn't enough to buy a few hours in an abandoned park in that town. #-o

My advice to you is to try to find private property somewhere away from the prying eyes of the public. It's really aggravating that you have to feel like some kind of criminal just because you are training your dogs and it's a headache that is worth taking extra measures to prevent.


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Hi Marta,

Try contacting Rugby clubs in your area. I have found that they are usually ok with protection training and have fair field fees. Most of the rugby clubs out here have their game field(s) and then one not as nicely kept up practice field - which is the one we usually rent.

You could also contact business in industrial areas. I know several clubs that are allowed to use grassy areas by businesses - either leased or free. It is a syngergistic partnership as the dogs working there keep thugs away from the business and the club uses greenspace already there.

You could also put an ad up on kijiji or craigslist looking for training land. Our club did that and we found a very reasonable place to lease for the summer.

Great job Marta!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Marta Haus said:


> well there will be no real protection training for now as we don't even have a decoy, so this will be obedience stuff for the most part. There is a secluded corner in that space where we could possibly do some protections stuff but will have to put the space to a working trial first.
> 
> I'm still on the look out for more locations, ideally I would love to find something even more private.


Wow, you guys have a ton of people on your Facebook group already! CONGRATS! :-D I think once you have over 25 likes, you can make your page so it has its own name after facebook.com, so it's easier to search for. Like my practice used to be facebook.com/bunchofrandomnumbers but now I got it set to so it's http://www.facebook.com/rightathomevetcare. We're in the same boat ya'll are in and just working each other's dogs. I would *HIGHLY* advise you to get the Michael Ellis Training Protection Skills Without a Decoy. It's amazing how many things you can train without a formal decoy and work with just a bite wedge or tug.

http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=739


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Skip Morgart said:


> You need to start out with a good TD and a good helper. You can build a club anywhere if you have those.


Skip, I think in the world of the suit sports (Ring and PSA), it's been my experience at least around here that it's MUCH easier to find a very good Schutzhund helper than it is to find an even pretty average suit decoy. Sometimes you can't wait for a good decoy to come around or you'll be waiting a long time. Gotta just start training, see who shows up, put some feelers out, and be willing to pay to send interested guys (or girls) to seminars and camps. Especially if there are some folks who already have a good handle as trainers/handlers in general. Ideally, there are at least some sort of experienced dogs in the club who are clear headed when can help teach the new folks too.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Like my practice used to be facebook.com/bunchofrandomnumbers



lol

You can only do custom names for profiles and pages, mine is a group so it's going to keep an ugly url unless FB changes things. The group does have a lot of members but they're not all from Toronto. Many are just experienced FR people I have added for support and advice that don't live any where near here. So far I have had 3 people contact me privately showing interest in coming out to a training practices. I think we will be just fine without a decoy to start off with, we do have the option to travel a couple hours to train with one so it's not all completely hopeless 

I'm definitely getting that DVD. MIght just watch it on their pay per view streaming, it works pretty well.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi Tammy

My advise for YOU 
Stick up for yourselves. Don't let ONE loud mouth whack job
deprive you of your access to a public park. Educate the parks
department and the police department to what dog sport actually is. Show them the control involved. Elected officials including police, try to avoid problems. If you and the other people you train with are more vocal then the one whack job?
The park/police will be on your side. Not directed at you in particular but I'm amazed how quickly some dog training groups will turn tail and run because ONE person complains.
If the parks person still doesn't see things your way? Go to her
superior, maybe mention the $35K in taxes your business pays every year.

I wouldn't be surprised if the whack job also complains about the noise from the shooting range, but they stick up for themselves ;-)




Tammy Cohen said:


> People do think protection work is animal abuse so don't be surprised if people complain....and try to have you sent to prison. :roll:
> 
> We have an informal group of about 7-8 people who get together once a week to train. We go to a few different places. One of the places we go is to a park on a pretty secluded road right by a shooting range. There's hardly a soul around.
> 
> ...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tammy Cohen said:


> ... My advice to you is to try to find private property somewhere away from the prying eyes of the public. It's really aggravating that you have to feel like some kind of criminal just because you are training your dogs and *it's a headache that is worth taking extra measures to prevent.*



We have never been sorry that we spent time calling on farmers in the rural areas all around our town. 

We rent a big field, including a structure (a disused barn) and another smaller dirt field for parking, and we pay peanuts. This has been years now. The farmer has moved us once, but no big deal .... bigger field, slightly smaller structure, still plenty of dirt/gravel parking.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

I must be a lucky guy. I train on public property on Ft. Wadsworth. Its in a residential area and sometimes the residents stop to watch but mostly they just wave as they drive by. The police stop by sometimes...but mostly they just wave as they drive by too!


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