# Opinions on best puppy food?



## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Here I am reading labels again. Looking for a good puppy food with quality ingredients that promote proper growth rates. Baden spirted just too damn fast and we had Pano to deal with. I'm hoping to avoid that this time around, if at all possible. Luckily this pup isn't the food slut big brother was. 

Anyone have any suggestions food wise for a GSD pup/litter. Anyone know what the ideal protein rates are for pups? Opinions on rice in foods or totally grain free?


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## Domenic Spina (Sep 13, 2008)

Good morning Michelle,For a puppy you might want to look at the Eagle Pack Large Breed Puppy.There has been alot of testing on lrg brds for alot of years with this food and it apparently has the correct calcium -phos in it.Have a look at there site.They have a whole section on this particular topic along with pictures etc.They also DONT use alot of plant protein.Hope this helps and good luck with that little guy,I LOVE his lines even though both mine are showline dogs.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

michele, i 2nd the eagle pack brand period. great food, highly digestible, it's what i fed Brix and what i'm feeding Edge right now.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

The amount of protein needed is affected by the energy content of the food (typically fat, in dog food).



> Ontko et al. (1957) estimated the dietary protein requirements of growing Beagle, Shepherd, and Shepherd-Collie puppies fed a dry diet containing 20 or 30 percent fat supplied primarily as lard (4.02 or 4.57 kcal ME/g). They concluded on the basis of weight gain, feed efficiency, and physical condition that 25.0 percent protein was required in diets containing 20 percent fat and that 28.9 percent was required if the diet contained 30 percent fat.


 http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=15&page=R1

15% protein is not adequate for a puppy. 20% is sufficient. Increasing to 27% doesn't improve weight gain or appearance.

As far as grain-free or not... I'm not convinced it is always cost-effective to go to grain-free. Grain-free kibbles are not carb-free.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I'm looking at these and more. So many ingredients and how important are the other analisis besides protein and carbs? It's enough to make your head spin. I just want a good solid food that wont have me regreting feeding it at 2 years of age or more. I want the best foundation for my puppy. Eagle pack and others have corn, something I haven't fed to my dogs in years. What to do??? #-oI want to settle on one food so I can avoid changing with every bag, doubting if each one is wrong or right. 

http://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/HS_LGPuppy.html

http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/default.asp?panel=ga&id=4

http://www.innovapet.com/product_line.asp?id=1259





http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/puppyLarge.aspx Orijen is what I feed Baden but don't see 42%protein good for a pup of 9 weeks old - 12 months.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> want to settle on one food so I can avoid changing with every bag, doubting if each one is wrong or right.


Is it important to stay on one formula? Variety is good. Why not pick several and rotate and/or mix? I don't believe that a single-formula pelleted food can be "complete and balanced for all life stages." And while there are a many that I definitely consider "wrong," there isn't just one or two that I believe can be selected as "right." Rotating several of high-quality foods may be a good option for you to try and see what foods are readily available, and work for your pup and your budget.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I switch kibble monthly (for the dogs that are on it) and I am not convinced that a puppy needs "puppy formulas" past 4 or 5 months of age. 
That is when I switch to adult formulas. 

I switch between:

Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul
Innova
Canidae
Nutro Natures Choice Lamb and Rice (not the greatest I know, but the Lab and Old Mal do well on it)
Wellness Core

I would try Eagle and Solid Gold, but have no source for it......

I guess I will throw the generic "have you thought about raw?" question out there as well. I feed 5 dogs raw right now and it is actually a bit less than feeding all of them kibble. (I do have sources of free meat, so this is a big part of the cost reduction). 

I would think feeding just one dog would be considerably less that kibble. And you can always supplement The Honest Kitchen if needed. A bit costly BUT, if only used as a gravy or a once in a while meal.....it lasts quite a while.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Carol Boche said:


> I guess I will throw the generic "have you thought about raw?" question out there as well. ... I would think feeding just one dog would be considerably less that kibble.


Raw is definitely cheaper for me. My little 35 lb dog goes through about 5 cups per day of grain-free kibble and still barely maintains weight. On raw, it's about 1 lb per day. It's about $50 per month for the kibble or about $15 per month for raw meat/RMBs - not counting when I get cheap or free meat. 

If you're feeding kibble and your dog has pano, the advice you will get is to purchase low-quality, grain-heavy food. If you feed raw and your dog has pano, the advice you will get is to increase the amount of bone in the diet. I like the second option better for the dog's overall health.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Who is to say that pano is not a genetic thing? I have had one pup that went through it.

I also do not feed puppy food to pups normally. I am pretty sure that growth rates are genetic and that adult dog food works fine. The only litter that I fed the leftover puppy food that I fed the mother was the one that had pano.LOL

I have fed the pregnant bitches bil jac puppy food and they always look real good throughout the pregnancy. I think I got bitched out an another board by Ed and Cindy because it had beet pulp in it. :-$ LOL


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

tsk tsk Jeff....LOL


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I do feed RAW, just not 100% of the time. Don't have enough variety to safely grow a pup on what I can get but he will eat RAW here and there for a week or so at a time. I'm not against switching food types. Just got bitched out so many times by the EX, everytime I brought a new food home. There are those that freak out about stomach upsets or whatever. My theory is, if one is missing something, hopefully the next bag will make up for it. Was just hoping to get 3-6 brands to pick from. I will probably not stick with 1...again. 

I didn't like Solid Golds Wolf Pup, or I should say Baden didn't. Whatever doesn't work well or isn't liked gets fed to the "shitter" my daughters unpapered bitch of unknown origin. That dog can eat anything (iron stomach). 

Anyone think the Orijen puppy is just a waste of $? Funny thing is I can get it as cheap if not cheaper than other foods filled with grains and crap, just not sure it's OK with that protein level, fat content, carbs? I don't wanna screw my little dude up. Right now he is eating Chicken Soup adult formula because I'm procrastinating the puppy food.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Have you looked at Timberwolf?

Two people on this board are giving Timberwolf Southwest Chicken with Taste of the Wild all stages, in two different protein sources.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> Variety is good. Why not pick several and rotate and/or mix? ....


100% agreed.


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## Beth Allen (Dec 17, 2008)

I am currently raising my 3rd litter of Mals on California Natural Puppy food...it is very basic, nothing fancy. It is either chicken or lamb. I rotate. They also get Honest Kitchen Embark and Raw. Depending on the pup, I switch over to Innova Adult after they are done teething. I have been very happy with the results.
Diamond private lables Natural Balance, Solid Gold, Canidae, Taste of the Wild, so I would just use with caution. I have my own pet retail store, and I will only sell product's that I will feed my own dog's.
My rule of food, let the dog tell you...keep an eye on the poop, excess, loose etc. may mean they do not matabolize the product very well.
Keep an eye on their skin, it is the largest organ on any mammal. It should be free of flakes, excess oil etc.
Keep an eye on their ear's... yes ear's inflamed, itchy, red could be a sensitivity to an ingredient.
It can also cause irritable bowl issues.
Their is not 1 food for all dog's that is perfect.
Some thing I also try to teach people is any CHANGE in what a kibble product look's or smells like from a previous bag.. is a caution flag. I smell every single bag I open.And inspect it before iI feed it.
I also check date codes... Food is expensive. You want the most for you money and the best for your pup.
If you have any questions, please let me know...
You can see my dog's with some current pics on 
working dog eu look under Beth Allen


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Beth Allen said:


> I am currently raising my 3rd litter of Mals on California Natural Puppy food...it is very basic, nothing fancy. It is either chicken or lamb. I rotate. They also get Honest Kitchen Embark and Raw. Depending on the pup, I switch over to Innova Adult after they are done teething. I have been very happy with the results.
> Diamond private lables Natural Balance, Solid Gold, Canidae, Taste of the Wild, so I would just use with caution. I have my own pet retail store, and I will only sell product's that I will feed my own dog's.
> My rule of food, let the dog tell you...keep an eye on the poop, excess, loose etc. may mean they do not matabolize the product very well.
> Keep an eye on their skin, it is the largest organ on any mammal. It should be free of flakes, excess oil etc.
> ...


Beth are you saying Diamond makes DVP's Natural Balance, Solid Gold and Canidae now too? I have fed all of the above except Canidae. I never thought the ingredients were worth the cost of the food. TOTW is OK but can get Orijen cheaper so that's what I do to avoid Diamond. I still buy Chicken Soup as the cheap junk food for my "junk" dog but she ate Diamond Naturals for years until I had a problem with that food. She likes CSFTDLS and everyone raves about it and I can get it pretty cheap $32 for 40lbs. That's the crappiest food I do or will buy. 

My pup was getting Pro Plan at the breeder, I won't go there after I looked at the food list. Better if I just fed him leftovers and rice. I really like the California Nats because the ingredient lists is so simple, nothing I can't pronounce, in the bag.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

michelle, for eagle pack, maybe check out www.dogfooddirect.com. i know you're west and i'm mid-west, but the ppl that own this company are really good, and they may be able to network and find a similar dealer in your part of the world. just a thought....


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Eagle Pack Holistic Selects does not have corn in it.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

kristen, i got back on just to make the point that the eagle pack i feed is the holistics. Edge will be switched to the adult formula next week as he's 6 mo old now....


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Beth Allen said:


> I am currently raising my 3rd litter of Mals on California Natural Puppy food...


This is one of the brands that I think is a good food at a good price.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Beth Allen said:


> ... Some thing I also try to teach people is any CHANGE in what a kibble product look's or smells like from a previous bag.. is a caution flag.


Yes!

And if the dog suddenly hesitates or refuses the food, don't feed that food.

Dozens (or more; these are just the owners who spoke up about their guilty feelings) of dogs would not have died if their owners had "listened" when the dogs turned their noses up at melamine-contaminated food and not kept giving it until the hungry dogs ate it.

So many owners posted to blogs at the time of that horrible multi-brand recall that they had assumed the dog was just being fussy.

Dogs are generally not at all fussy like cats, and if my dogs refuse something, that is a huge caution to me.


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## Beth Allen (Dec 17, 2008)

More quick info to pass along.. Wellness purchased Eagle product's... so be on guard. I sold and used Wellness product's for year's. Then I learned one my "Do Not Trust The Comapny Lesson's" and one of my dog's was on IV's for 2 days with un controllable gut issues. The comapny said their were no changes...then a few weeks later the food looked and smelled different. Next new improved formula on the lable. Chick Soup is also made by Diamond. Orijen is good extreamly expensive. And some dog's can not tolerate the food. Pay attention to your dog. I have worked in the industry for 25 year's, I suggest due to personal and professional experience, never trust any of the companies 100%.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

WDJ now does a list of which companies make their own foods, in this country, running their own plant, with control of all ingredients. 

This is in addition to their long-time annual lists of their opinion of the best kibble, best canned, and now best dehydrated and frozen pre-made raw, etc. (They always start with the disclaimer that they believe that no commercial food can match a fresh diet, but that there are plenty of very good commercial foods available.)

As everyone here notes, there is no one food that is perfect for every dog (and, in fact, no one food that is perfect for ANY dog every day forever), so it's nice to have this annual guide as a starter list to at least narrow down the humongous number of choices -- from a publication that accepts zero advertising or any other form of transactions with any manufacturer that is not arm's-length info only.

Mary Strauss, of course, is their primary nutrition researcher and writer, and IMHO she is probably the best canine nutrition source on the 'net (or maybe tied with Lew Olson).


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> WDJ now does a list of which companies make their own foods, in this country, running their own plant, with control of all ingredients.
> 
> This is in addition to their long-time annual lists of their opinion of the best kibble, best canned, and now best dehydrated and frozen pre-made raw, etc. (They always start with the disclaimer that they believe that no commercial food can match a fresh diet, but that there are plenty of very good commercial foods available.)
> 
> ...


 
Connie, do you have a link to that?


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## Tammy Cohen (Dec 21, 2008)

I feed raw but I like Innova Evo and Abady granular as far as dry food goes.
http://abadyfeeds.com/
Anyone here have input on Abady? It seems like everyone familiar has a strong opinion on it one way or the other. They are in NY so I'm not sure if it's available everywhere.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> Connie, do you have a link to that?


No. They don't accept advertising. That means that their site makes no advertising money and the publication makes no advertising money. * So their only income is from purchase of the publication. 

However, you can get one issue; you don't have to subscribe. 




*Completely worth it to me; we know that there is no manufacturer's $$ speaking.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tammy Cohen said:


> .... Anyone here have input on Abady? It seems like everyone familiar has a strong opinion on it one way or the other. They are in NY so I'm not sure if it's available everywhere.


I would urge that you read the ingredients.

Also that you read some of the claims (like "stool hardener" ingredients).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> No. They don't accept advertising. That means that their site makes no advertising money and the publication makes no advertising money. * So their only income is from purchase of the publication.
> 
> However, you can get one issue; you don't have to subscribe.
> 
> ...


Type _WDJ_ at Google. The first return gives you the main site as well as each of the most sought-after issues.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Isn't this Mary Strauss's website? Some good info here:
http://www.dogaware.com/


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Konnie Hein said:


> Isn't this Mary Strauss's website? Some good info here:
> http://www.dogaware.com/


Yes it is.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

When I was in charge of getting dog food for our departments kennel we tried Eagle for our dogs . It was the high fat dog food used for sled dogs I guess . Most of the 21 dogs on the unit didn't like it . 

General complaints were bad coats , dogs were itching alot and a few complaints of stomach upset . They were good people to deal with and gave us a good deal . The dogs just didn't do well on it.

We use mainly Nutro Large Breed now . I don't know much about puppy food haven't had one in a long time.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I usually only buy one big bag of puppy food and when it's done, they get adult dog food. This pup like I said before isn't the pig his brother was/is but I fed him some Orijen and he scarfed it up like a fat kid on cake. When I buy my next bag I get one free, so I am thinking mix the Orijen with California Naturals and see how that works for him.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Michelle:
IMO, Cal Nat is a really good food. I fed it to my dogs for years before switching over to raw, and they all did really well on it. Also raised two puppies on it, one Lab and one Dutchie.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks fo rthe info Konnie.


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Tammy Cohen said:


> I feed raw but I like Innova Evo and Abady granular as far as dry food goes.
> http://abadyfeeds.com/
> Anyone here have input on Abady? It seems like everyone familiar has a strong opinion on it one way or the other. They are in NY so I'm not sure if it's available everywhere.


Tammy: I started having problems with their granular about a year or so ago and stopped using it. 
So now I only feed their frozen meat and cookies. I also use Orijen kibble, THK, and other raw prepared diets like Oma's pride, Primal, and Nature's Variety.

Julie


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