# Study on differences between working, show, and mixe lines in the German Shepherd Dog



## Gregory Doud (Nov 10, 2008)

http://www.rsv2000.de/opencms/en/ne...eding/genetische-differenzierung-des-dsh.html


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

Does this mean that eventually, if this continues for a few more generations, that the genetic differences between a SL GSD and WL GSD will be greater than between a WL GSD and say a Mali or a DS?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Gerald Guay said:


> Does this mean that eventually, if this continues for a few more generations, that the genetic differences between a SL GSD and WL GSD will be greater than between a WL GSD and say a Mali or a DS?


 
Gerald,

The differences between the SL and the WL line GSD are massive. Most of the WL dogs do not show any SL dogs in them.

How they compare with the Mali or DS is your guess!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

OP
do you have any of your own opinions or questions after reading the study that you want to throw out, or just trying to start a thread ?


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

I was hoping that someone with a knowledge of genetics could answer my question since there is the possibility of a close genetic relationship between some the early European sheep dogs. 

GG


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## Gregory Doud (Nov 10, 2008)

rick smith said:


> OP
> do you have any of your own opinions or questions after reading the study that you want to throw out, or just trying to start a thread ?


Nope - no questions or agenda. I just thought it was an interesting study and thought some of the WDF members would like to read it.


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## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

When looking at some pictures of the early GSD there are more similarities with Malinois than with the shape of today's GSD.
I would also think that in the early days of the breed there must have been many breedings with like type dogs since the original pool would have been from herding ''kennels'' or breeders.
Whatever we think it is strange to see the path the breed has taken in only 100 years or so.

Mike


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Mike Di Rago said:


> When looking at some pictures of the early GSD there are more similarities with Malinois than with the shape of today's GSD.
> I would also think that in the early days of the breed there must have been many breedings with like type dogs since the original pool would have been from herding ''kennels'' or breeders.
> Whatever we think it is strange to see the path the breed has taken in only 100 years or so.
> 
> Mike


Today's show line sure. Working line, not so much.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike Di Rago said:


> When looking at some pictures of the early GSD there are more similarities with Malinois than with the shape of today's GSD.
> I would also think that in the early days of the breed there must have been many breedings with like type dogs since the original pool would have been from herding ''kennels'' or breeders.
> Whatever we think it is strange to see the path the breed has taken in only 100 years or so.
> 
> Mike



Not even a hundred yrs. Most of it started in the late 60s early 70s. Pre that era there were more then a few "show dogs" that were more then qualified to get the job done and the "look" wasn't even close to the extreme seen now. 
The Work/show differences in many terrier breeds, setters, spaniels and more is as great if not more then the GSD today.
today's English Bulldog is probably the most vizualy and physically different then the original dog. Also a breed at the top of the list with genetic problems and a dead end if things don't change for it...and it wont.


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## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

Hunter,
You are right to say the showline for sure but lets look at the weight of the working line GSD of now.How many are 35 kg for the males? Far too many are over 38kg.This affects not only health but also agility.
Lets face it even the working lines have been influenced by ''pet'' owners who have demanded criteria like color or size and the market has permitted this to become apriority over solid nerves and working abilities.
It has become a bragging right to own a ''working line'' GSD for many people who don't work the dogs,don't evaluate the abilities of these dogs and then,unfortunately breed them and keep producing less than adequate dogs.The wheel continues.:roll:
It becomes more and more difficult to find breeders who can produce solid,good working litters on a consistant manner. But I guess that could be a subject for another thread.
Mike


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Mike Di Rago said:


> Hunter,
> You are right to say the showline for sure but lets look at the weight of the working line GSD of now.How many are 35 kg for the males? Far too many are over 38kg.This affects not only health but also agility.
> Lets face it even the working lines have been influenced by ''pet'' owners who have demanded criteria like color or size and the market has permitted this to become apriority over solid nerves and working abilities.
> It has become a bragging right to own a ''working line'' GSD for many people who don't work the dogs,don't evaluate the abilities of these dogs and then,unfortunately breed them and keep producing less than adequate dogs.The wheel continues.:roll:
> ...


Yes, but that applies to all breeds, even malinois. Mals are not becoming a "bragging right" to own. I know a guy who has only had labs before, never been around, much less trained or handled a mal, who stated he's looking for a strong working mal... I encouraged him to come out to our club and try before you buy (because lets face it, a strong working mal isn't for your average handler).

It is harder to find the creme de la creme of GSDs, but there are still many breeders who focus on producing solid nerved, working focused dogs. And that do so consistently. The reason my two dogs came from the breeders they did is b/c both breeders focus on working dogs and not pets, and both have proven track records. There is no way to avoid the market adjusting to fill the "I want a lab that looks like a GSD" demand, but that doesn't mean real working dogs cannot also exist. After all, the bulk of ford mustang sales have always been the v-6, but its the v-8 that is the real car lol. Just how it works.

Most working line GSDs are still in the breed spec. I've only seen show lines and pet lines that are always breeching the 100lb mark.


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