# grounded prey



## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

I would like to hear opinions on working a young dog on "grounded prey". My dobe that I euthanized @ 11 yrs last summer had a lot of this type training as a young dog. For her entire life when she decided to possess something like a cap, or anything small she was HELL.she just did it now and then and I always got her off the object but it would freak a non-dog person out.As soon as I got the out she transformed back to an obedient,handler friendly dog. I never could get it out of her. My current 8 1/2 month dobe has made a quantum leap in the last 3 weeks. she has lots of confidence, alarms both in and outside the hse on unusual people or noises and barks on the end of the leash at perceived enemies. This is what I want! I can take her to the vet in the waiting room no problem.I have no desire to make her pet smart friendly.when I walk her on leash in the neighborhood she gives strangers that come to close the bussiness.I do not know how far I will go with her training but I'm thinking she might not need to be worked like that.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

New term to me, what does it mean? I know showing the sleeve as a dead prey...


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

I think we are talking about the same thang.The other dobe was difficult to get to bark. This one barks at the drop of a hat.we would tether a dog or let the handler hold the dog while a tug or sleeve or rag was placed just out of reach.we got dogs to show agression,bark, guard the grounded prey when someone tried to get it.grounded prey as in a "dead rabbit or other critter".we would use a word command during this process.It brought dogs out that previously did not bark or want to engage a decoy. It worked but I blamed that one behavior problem on this method. Might have been my fault. who knows.I just thought someone might have used this method and would comment, or anyone for that matter.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I have seen dogs that naturally guarded a resource that was static...both in play and for real. And I have dogs that did not. But I would be more concerned about how retrieved the item from the dobe not so much on how you got her to guard it. Without seeing the dog in action and no knowing everything you did with the dog. It's hard to tell if it's genes or the training...like everything else it's probably a combo of both. 

I think teasing a dog....which this is, provokes sometype of suspicion in the dog that encourages them to protect it. The suspiciousness has to be present in the genes in order for this to work. But I would imagine this could be great exastrabated (sp?) by training. You know if you train in a positive manner during bitework...And the dog has some suspisiousness in temperment I am guessing you could train like this later in life if you need to. But with an 8.5 month old whom already is suspicious of people. I do not know if I would provoke this anymore. I would wait till the dog is a bit more mature to provoke any type of defensiveness. So, Depending on the dog I may do this in a very, very prey over dramatic way so as to not cause the dog to worry but make it more of a game. but again this is going to make it a game and not real. If your looking for real...Defintly wait.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

Prey guarding is something that I do occasionally to increase confidence and defensive intensity in the dog, most commonly after slipping a sleeve or a suit. I've used it over food too to make a dog come out that wouldn't come out otherwise. The big picture is I'd rather not have to do any of that. I don't like to slip the sleeve or suit too much in the first place so there's little room for prey guarding. Getting a dog used to having the equipment slipped creates the necessity of getting the dog back on the man which is kinda like problem solving. It can be avoided in the first place. I don't want to count on a dog that requires it. Prey guarding is something I'd do when someone has a dog that's not as strong as I would like but I still have to work it.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

So the dog is doing more of an *object guard* and not the sleeve attached and pointed downward in a dead prey mode.


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

Yeah,, I think object guard would be a good description.We didn't use a slipped sleeve at all.It really made them bark and try to engage the decoy going after the object. At some point we would let them get the object.It has been a while (yrs) but I think we did this leading up to biting a tug held by an experienced helper, then a puppy sleeve, then a hard sleeve.. All young dogs ,,early on in their training. Some schutzhund, some police dogs.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

This is all as clear as mud...

You DO or you DON'T want to teach the object guard?


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

I just wanted input from yalls experience. I think it would be good for some dogs and maybe not others.I don't think I need it for the pup I have now. Might change my mind later on though.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

So... you're saying that for you, the object guard is a means to an end, not the end itself.

You are trying to determine if this individual dog needs this specific training to acheive your goals?

Hard to say. I've never used the object guard to bring out defense- I've only ever done it when it was the end goal, not as a means to an end.

Ultimately, you're the best judge of your dog. If it has the drive you want, to do the work you want, and you don't feel the need to teach the object guard, then don't.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> So... you're saying that for you, the object guard is a means to an end, not the end itself.
> 
> You are trying to determine if this individual dog needs this specific training to acheive your goals?
> 
> ...


Agree!


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> So... you're saying that for you, the object guard is a means to an end, not the end itself.
> 
> You are trying to determine if this individual dog needs this specific training to acheive your goals?
> 
> ...


Alyssa: I'd love to some some video of object guard training. I've seen plenty on youtube during trials, but not training. Oh, and there was one I saw recently of a nice young mali pup.
But, I'd be interested in seeing how you go about it. It's always good to see how others start teaching different exercises.

Thanks,
Julie


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I'll see what I can scrounge up.

I'm not training the object guard with my current dog, so I don't have any videos right now.

I would think some of the Ring folks might have some.

When I get the SchI out of the way, I'll get some video of our training for the WH.


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Thanks. Can't wait to see them.
Isn't the WH and the ring Object guard different?
Julie


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

They are, in several ways.

BUT, the groundwork training is done the same.


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Good. Would be interested in seeing how you teach the groundwork then


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