# how secure are titanium canine caps ?



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

has anyone worked a dog hard in bite training that had all four canines titanium capped ?
i have one coming and want to know if i need to be careful in any situations such as if the dog is off its feet, etc

owner spent a lot of money at a specialist 2yrs ago to do the work, but neither the dentist nor owner have provided any specific "limitations" 
95lb 3.5yr gsd 
two roots are there; teeth were broken and two root canals
believe it has only worked with jute sleeves and wedges, but don't know for sure

can't say much more til i see it, but want to know if anyone has had first hand experience with a dog in this condition


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Lots of the dogs I decoyed in France had caps. The caps were short and blunt. There was no problems with them. Lots of the guys there did it as prevention for wear. Its pretty cheap in France. 200 euro per tooth.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Tx Daniel
Do you mean a permanent short cap that is partially covering an otherwise healthy tooth ? That's what it sounds like to me but just wanna make sure.


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## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

We had a club member a few years back that had a dog with capped canines. He did lose one during training one day on a long bite.

Ang


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

My dog had all four capped. The roots were intact and the canines were not worn too badly. The problem you have is that the exterior of the tooth need to be relieved enough to accept the thickness of the cap. If not, the canines will bind when the jaw closed and put too much stress on them which can cause problems such as breakage or pain. Because the tooth is relieved, the inherent strength is reduced.

In my case, the dog had weak enamel so the teeth weren't as strong to begin with. He broke three total in about 3 1/2 years. One was the decoys fault, the other two were because of the bite strength of the dog.

Here's a pic...


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> My dog had all four capped. The roots were intact and the canines were not worn too badly. The problem you have is that the exterior of the tooth need to be relieved enough to accept the thickness of the cap. If not, the canines will bind when the jaw closed and put too much stress on them which can cause problems such as breakage or pain. Because the tooth is relieved, the inherent strength is reduced.
> 
> In my case, the dog had weak enamel so the teeth weren't as strong to begin with. He broke three total in about 3 1/2 years. One was the decoys fault, the other two were because of the bite strength of the dog.
> 
> Here's a pic...


I don't see any front teeth either? What happenend to those?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

When he was going through the bomb school I gave him a ball reward and he smashed his upper incisors on the pavement. Two were broken and one was cracked. The broken ones were removed. The cracked one had a root canal and stainless cap put on it. 2 months later during bite work he broke the capped tooth off and it had to be removed as well.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

thanks all for all the info

will make sure he gets a good check b4 he comes here just to be sure they are all solid, etc
three weeks won't be much time and there is plenty do to that won't involve him leaving his feet much at all ... more concerned with twisting around and putting torsional stress on the caps with a lot of weight/momentum behind it
- owner is close to a SchH I but is losing interest due to the travel involved and is more concerned with developing better targeting and building up confidence, etc

tried to attach a pic of all four caps w/out any luck :-(
- u definitely can't just drag em into these boxes 
.... any easy way for a (basic) mac user ? ....i know RTFM, but i'm computer lazy


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I had one of my dogs teeth capped, a few years later the entire thing snapped off. IMO it was because of two issues. First, I asked the vet to shorten the tooth because we were only capping one and I was worried about furture length, he refused. So as the other teeth wore naturally, the one capped tooth became the longest tooth in his mouth, which meant it took more force. Second reason is that something happened while it was being capped, or afterwards, not sure which, but the tooth eventually died. At least that was the opinion of the dentist friend who looked at it after it broke (it broke off really short), they said the lack of any blood meant the tooth had died already.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

I believe it depends mostly on the reason for the crown, and the age when it is done. The root gets smaller and smaller as the dog ages with the former root space filling in with tooth, getting about its smallest at ~5yrs. Thats at its strongest. When the root canals are done, the tooth is killed, and the tooth material replacement process stops. So, a dog crowned at 5 has stronger teeth than a dog crowned at 2, other things held equal
If the crowns were done b/c of a blunt trauma, its always possible there are hairline cracked below the gum line. If it was kennel biting that weakened the back of the canine and it snapped there, then the teeth are shorter and probably no fractures below that. If it was excessive wear on the top from toy chewers, then its likely theres no trauma or weak spots and the tooth is crowned at its current size,. 
The risk is that the crowned teeth, if they will snap, will snap at the gum line. The good news is thats the strongest part of the tooth, so it if breaks, either the teeth were flawed, the dog is worked improperly, or the dog has weaker teeth than normal. 2 different vet dentist I consulted with have never had a crown come off and both worked on police & military dogs frequently, and even if they did, its free to have a new one made and placed on.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I had one of my dogs teeth capped, a few years later the entire thing snapped off. IMO it was because of two issues. First, I asked the vet to shorten the tooth because we were only capping one and I was worried about furture length, he refused. So as the other teeth wore naturally, the one capped tooth became the longest tooth in his mouth, which meant it took more force. Second reason is that something happened while it was being capped, or afterwards, not sure which, but the tooth eventually died. At least that was the opinion of the dentist friend who looked at it after it broke (it broke off really short), they said the lack of any blood meant the tooth had died already.


On the flip side, having one tooth short is putting more stress on the others, and could even alter the scissor over time. I think (in a non medical, applying only logic as I understand the situation) at minimum, both teeth on one side be crowned, and if the other teeth wear fast, a 3/4 crown be done to stop the wear on the tip, while still keeping the tooth intact and root alive. The problem with full crowns is you can't X-ray or anything and see whats going on inside the tooth anymore.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Hunter Allred said:


> On the flip side, having one tooth short is putting more stress on the others, and could even alter the scissor over time. I think (in a non medical, applying only logic as I understand the situation) at minimum, both teeth on one side be crowned, and if the other teeth wear fast, a 3/4 crown be done to stop the wear on the tip, while still keeping the tooth intact and root alive. The problem with full crowns is you can't X-ray or anything and see whats going on inside the tooth anymore.


I asked him about uneven wear, that was my concern and the reason I asked him to shorten it, his response was that he didn't believe the other teeth would wear down like I was describing. He is supposed to be THE expert in my area, "does all the police dogs" and also does the dental work on a lot of the zoo animals, but there were quite a few things he told me during the entire procedure that made me go "hmmmm". Course he also told me he'd had 100% success with his caps, never had one break, then didn't return any of my phone calls or emails when I contacted him a few years later to tell him Mac's had broken off. Waste of 3000.00.

Oh, in Mac's case he'd already broken 1 canine, which the vet said was to short to cap, so it was the other canine on the top that we were capping, shortening it would have just made it a little more even with the other top one, not even but closer. His opinion was that the bottom ones didn't need to be capped because they don't usually break.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I asked him about uneven wear, that was my concern and the reason I asked him to shorten it, his response was that he didn't believe the other teeth would wear down like I was describing. He is supposed to be THE expert in my area, "does all the police dogs" and also does the dental work on a lot of the zoo animals, but there were quite a few things he told me during the entire procedure that made me go "hmmmm". Course he also told me he'd had 100% success with his caps, never had one break, then didn't return any of my phone calls or emails when I contacted him a few years later to tell him Mac's had broken off. Waste of 3000.00.
> 
> Oh, in Mac's case he'd already broken 1 canine, which the vet said was to short to cap, so it was the other canine on the top that we were capping, shortening it would have just made it a little more even with the other top one, not even but closer. His opinion was that the bottom ones didn't need to be capped because they don't usually break.


My vet told me yes, the others will all wear, but that we can monitor the size closely and modify behavior and hope for the best and that the pulp retracts faster than the tooth wears, or if you want to just deal with it now and got the cash, crown the one that needs it, and 3/4 the others. As it turns out (ours was wear related), what was thought to be pulp exposure, was secondary dentin, so we calipered everything and will periodically recheck to see if we've stopped excessive wear. She also said the crowns were warrantied from the manufacturer, so outside of time and drugs she wouldn't be out of that much money. 

I forget how much she told me she needed left of a tooth to have a solid anchor for the crown. Did you do a root canal on the lower broken one? Dr. here said anytime pulp is exposed, it gets infected and should be addressed, particularly in canines due to the difficulty in extracting one.

Did you spend $3000 on one? I was quoted about half that for the one, only a couple hundred more per additional, large part of the cost being sedation. 

For what its worth, any time I said "cap", she corrected me and said it was a crown. Actually, the dr was recommended to me on this forum some months ago.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Mac had a root canal done on the broken tooth, and the other tooth the capped. 

He did break a bottom tooth eventually, he was a chain link chewer before I got him, I didn't have anything done to that tooth other than a couple of checkups with a dentist friend to make sure it wasn't infected. I've had multiple adult dogs break a canine over the years that never needed a root canal, so anymore I just keep an eye on them, and wait and see. In retrospect I'd either insist all 3 remaining canines be capped, or probably not have bothered at all.


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