# "Show me"



## Ashley riches (Jan 8, 2013)

Hi guys I'm training a wilderness SAR dog, and was wondering if you could give me any tips on training the show me refined command, is there anyway to teach this without a helper for instance? This will be my first SAR dog but not my first dog I've trained other types but never a SAR dog, I'm a member of my local SAR team but sometimes struggle to find volunteers to help me out so wondered if there were any exercises we could do on our own any help most appreciated......


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

If you can explain what your desired outcome is then may be able to help


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## Ashley riches (Jan 8, 2013)

Ashley riches said:


> Hi guys I'm training a wilderness SAR dog, and was wondering if you could give me any tips on training the show me refined command, is there anyway to teach this without a helper for instance? This will be my first SAR dog but not my first dog I've trained other types but never a SAR dog, I'm a member of my local SAR team but sometimes struggle to find volunteers to help me out so wondered if there were any exercises we could do on our own any help most appreciated......





Matt Vandart said:


> If you can explain what your desired outcome is then may be able to help


Hi thanks for your reply, basically I would like my dog to find/locate the Misper return to me indicate with preferably a bark but a jump/touch would be ok, then with the "show me" command take me back to the Misper with a reward at the end, my dog is a Working bred Border Collie just for reference.....


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Hi
re: "tips on training the show me refined command" .... that's not clear to me

some background might be helpful, and since this is your first SAR dog but you belong to a team, i would expect the team should be able to look at you and your dog and suggest how to build a a good foundation for both of you

if you are already that far along; great. just state where you are at now and what you are lacking to finish training that particular behavior

we have some very experienced people here and i would think the more they know about what kind of overall plan you have, the better they could fit their advice to your needs

what i have found out so far, is to do it right i think you need to do the foundation work well and be able to build a SOLID dog. what little i have learned so far has been that it will take me a LONG time to get a dog SAR certified. 

not to mention, i may be too old and worn out to work it effectively when and if it is SAR ready


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

my understanding of the OP's post is that that when the dog makes a find, they want the dog to return to them and give some sort of indication, and the dog is then sent to re-find the person, taking the handler to them this time... 

in my very limited SAR experience the wilderness dogs will often search out of sight of the handler, and instead of just finding the person and barking in their face until the handler can make their way over, the dog comes back to "tell" the handler... but i am guessing some dogs need training in order to guide the handler to the person ("show me"), instead of just taking off and running back to the person, as the dogs can move much faster than the handler can, especially through adverse terrain...



on a tangent... there was a lady here in Oz some years ago who had a young lab, i believe somewhere between the 18mth - 2yr mark, who was internationally certified... i don't see why it takes so long to train these dogs?


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## Ashley riches (Jan 8, 2013)

rick smith said:


> Hi
> re: "tips on training the show me refined command" .... that's not clear to me
> 
> some background might be helpful, and since this is your first SAR dog but you belong to a team, i would expect the team should be able to look at you and your dog and suggest how to build a a good foundation for both of you
> ...





Jay Quinn said:


> my understanding of the OP's post is that that when the dog makes a find, they want the dog to return to them and give some sort of indication, and the dog is then sent to re-find the person, taking the handler to them this time...
> 
> in my very limited SAR experience the wilderness dogs will often search out of sight of the handler, and instead of just finding the person and barking in their face until the handler can make their way over, the dog comes back to "tell" the handler... but i am guessing some dogs need training in order to guide the handler to the person ("show me"), instead of just taking off and running back to the person, as the dogs can move much faster than the handler can, especially through adverse terrain...
> 
> ...


Thanks for your replies I did add a little more info in a previous post but will add more.

A bit more background, my dog is 5 months old border collie he has brilliant obedience including around distractions and livestock will speak on command etc, my SAR unit do not start formal training until 6 months old, and we only have 3 dog handlers/trainers within our unit and they are about 50 miles away so it's not going to be a 3 or 4 day a week training so to speak with experienced handlers, once a week probably, so was looking for ways to train the "show me" sequence on my own as this is one of the most challenging part of the training apparently hence wanting to practice this as regularly as possible but will struggle to do so alone, I'm hoping there is a way to do this without another human helper but if it's not possible then I'll have to try and find and pay a trainer to do so which I would prefer not to do but will if I really need to.......

It takes 18-24 months to get a dog certified so I've been told....


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

To make this really work you are going to have to find local "victims" to help you train your dog. You really should train several days a week until the dog is fully trained...

Back chaining is a good approach and I have some good articles on that if you want to PM me and send me an email address. Your helper does not need any special training other than doing what you direct them to do. It is not hard to train the indication; it is just something a lot of people mess up/keep changing and allow to get sloppy and fall apart.

18-24 months is realistic for a first time handler with a first time dog. It speeds up tremendously once you know what you are doing.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

This is pretty basic, but it depends on if you want to forward-chain the training or backward-chain the training. Forward-train is what I typically see with most search groups.
Realize that what you ask the dog to do in the typical areas search is to make three finds, not one.

1) Dog is sent out by the handler and finds the "Misper" or "Victim" or "Subject", hopefully via scent and not via sight.

2) Dog has to go find the handler now via (typically) backtracking itself and working with the wind. Typical training has the handler out in a field and the subject hiding in shallow woods, so many dogs end up visually re-locating the handler. I'd suggest that once the dog knows the game that the handler introduce radio feedback from the subject on the initial find and the handler now going out-of-sight. This can be as simple as stepping behind a tree. You can make it a game for the dog depending on the dog's drive and personality. 
This time when the dog locates the handler, it is expected to give an indication or alert (depending on how you use this terminology, it does vary), i.e. the dog does a trained response the signifies it has located a subject. This can be a sit, a down, a nudge on the hand, a bringsel either on the dog or the handler (rarely see this work well), a bark, or (my favorite to watch) a body bang. You can always tell an enthusiastic dog by how the handler braces for the bang. The bang really makes night searching interesting because dogs see so much better in the dark than we do. I've heard more than my share of handlers suddenly go "oomfph!" followed by a crash into vegetation or field support.... Sorry, I grew up on the Three Stooges.

3) The dog has told you it found "timmy in the well", so the handler now responds with "SHOW ME!" and the dog is to find the subject a third time with the handler in tow. Really good dogs tend doing this last find multiple times as handlers often don't keep up either due to terrain or they are simply out of shape. It's really sad when a mid-50's chubby bald guy seems to weave through the woods in the dark and meet up with the dog on the first show me and the dog looks helpless as the handler is crashing through the woods some 50 yards back. I always look at the dog and say, "go get your handler!" The dogs always do, dunno why, but they do. Probably because they know I'm just a bystander and the handler has the paycheck.

Sooooo, those are the three finds.
Typical training is to do runaways to teach the dog the "go find" or "search". The dog gets to visually see the subject take off at first. As the dog understands the game with the handler going with it, then the subject hides out of sight, then with no trail by trekking in from upwind, and then adding complexities where the scent is available, but not a visual.
This would be the Forward chaining method.
Forward chaining means you train all the separate components individually and then build the chain as the dog succeeds in each link. So, you'd train the alert separately. You'd train the "show me" by having the subject hold the dog and you move downwind. You call your dog and the subject releases. When the dog finds you, you then yell "show me" (or whatever) and lead the dog back to the subject.

so, forward chaining would have the initial find starting from a runaway and progressing in difficulty. You then add on the "recall", again something you had trained off-line with basic obedience but with the "here" getting progressively farther and then you the handler start hiding on the dog when it's trying to recall, sooo that it has to find you.

So, forward chain is find-recall-find with commands (or something like them) "go find" - (implied "here")...(which the subject can verbally cue in the beginning) - "show me" (or refind)


Backward chaining (which I have seen done successfully, but most don't do it this way as the book most people start with doesn't go into it) would be "show me" (handler and dog find together) - "recall" where subject holds the dog with "HERE!" used at first and then implied when the subject releases the dog - and "go find" where the dog now comes to "know" that the subject is out there if the dog just scent grids well enough.
The end result is the same and frankly, I don't observe any difference in the finished product. 
Both do train more easily if the handler and dog train all the separate links (or components) individually from the get go.
So, yea, you can train "show me" on your own, but I would work with a knowledgeable subject. It's been my experience that a ignorant subject can do as much to screw up a dog as a novice handler.

Hope that helps,

Jim Delbridge


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ashley, please don't forget your intro here:

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/


Thanks!


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I prefer the back chain method but have found where people let it fall apart is after they put it together they forget to reinforce the jump or bump or whatever and that part of the chain can get weak.

I have seen both methods work though.


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

SAR is a team sport and this is one of those things that needs a helper. Whatever method you use, the dog still needs that person.
Be careful about jumping ahead and starting your dog on this without your teams suppprt. There are lots of different and successful methods to train that response, but if you start it in a way that your team doesnt do, they may not be able to help you if problems arise. 

Sounds like you need to look into your local resources to see what is available. Kids needing community service for school, adults who want to do volunteer work, community service personnel thru the courts, and of course friends and family.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

You will need to train some volunteers to help you. Unlike cadaver, in wilderness search, the victim is the one that really trains the dog. A bad victim creates a multitude of problems, a good one saves your bacon.

I've done back and forward chaining. I prefer forward chaining. But to make forward chaining work you have to get the basics of all the steps in order. You can't leave out bits and pieces thinking you can just put them in later. 

During the initial forward chain sequence when training a puppy (I'm talking at the 10-12 week mark), I run them on a long line. Make sure you do this somewhere that doesn't have things to get hung up on. Do the standard puppy runaway, with the victim giving a small piece of food reward when they get to them. The handler gets the puppy to come back by any method other than reeling them in (if possible), I make a lot of excited voice or motions to get the puppy barreling back to me so that they inevitably run into me (the start of a body slam alert). They get a small tidbit of food and as I am saying "show me" we are running back both together to the victim with the victim calling the puppy back too, where the victim takes over and does some rewarding.

During the show me phase it's the victim's responsibility to get that dog back to them. If doing multiple refinds it's the victim's job to keep the dog on track. Once I say 'show me', that victim has got to get the dog back to them. That being said, I don't start out doing multiples with puppies. At the distances I'm working 1 great one beats 2 done half-assed. You will build up to multiples. That being said you can do multiples on short distances with the dog ping-ponging between you with small rewards on both ends until all the parties are together. At 5 months old your dog is a good age to start. 

One thing I would do is sit down with whomever the trainer is and find out what their game plan is for your dog. In other words, how to they plan on training you both. Sometimes small teams don't have great trainers (and sometimes they do) but they lack experience with dealing other types of breeds or learning speeds. I've run into a lot of folks designated as trainer who only know their dog can can't relate that to anyone else's. If you get a quick learning dog it can throw things off because they don't know how to adapt to a faster paced dog. To slow and you get the opposite effect with them getting frustrated at the snail pace of learning.

The rule of thumb is 18-24 months but that depends on a host of factors. Sometimes it's waiting for the dog to reach mental or physical maturity. Some units have it in their rules that they won't deploy dogs under a certain age. Sometimes it takes that long for the handler to get all their ground search training done or skill stations met. The first dog usually takes the longest because you are learning and making a bunch of mistakes that you later have to go back and fix. My first dog took me over 3 years to finish because I got a lot of bad and conflicting advice from people on how to deal with his speed. They wanted me to slow him down so he would work that their pace instead of them ramping up to his working speed. The fifth dog I trained had us passing 3 of our 4 certifications by the time he was a year old. So it depends on you and your dog.


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## Tom Connors (Dec 30, 2012)

If you like the team you are with, why not respect their 6 month old rule and just enjoy your pup until its formal training begins. better to have some guidance than forge ahead and possibly make a mistake. Does the team require a "show me" or is it something you prefer to the bark alert? My experience is the bark alert has proven easier and been more reliable than the "show me". 

I always told people interested intraining their dogs for SAR to enjoy the journey. It should take the dog/handler team at least a year or two to train in different terrain, conditions, etc before they are ready. The handler has a ton to learn, much more than the dog!


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