# Asko von der Lutter has died



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

One of the greatest GSDs of all time died approximately 3 weeks ago. He not only acheived greatness in the sport, but passed those winning genes on to his progeny. He will be missed, and will never be forgotten.


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

That's too bad. Great dog. He had a pretty long life though - according to his birth date on the ped database he was about 13 and some change. Average lifespan is 12 years.


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

Great dog, very sad indeed. But, this dog has become a pillar in workinglines with his progeny. He has definitely put his stamp on the workinglines that we will see the effects for years to come.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Very well said Trish and thanks again.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Chris Jones said:


> That's too bad. Great dog. He had a pretty long life though - according to his birth date on the ped database he was about 13 and some change. Average lifespan is 12 years.


He sired a litter of 6 last September.


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## Mandy Connor (Aug 4, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> He sired a litter of 6 last September.


 

*I am honored to have a son from Asko's last litter. He is a great dog!!!.*


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## Tamara Villagomez (Nov 28, 2009)

He will be missed RIP Asko!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mandy Connor said:


> *I am honored to have a son from Asko's last litter. He is a great dog!!!.*


Congrats!!!!! I feel lucky to have a grandson


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Thank God his sperm will not be contaminating the breed any longer. What a piece of crap.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

According to GSD database he was born in 94, WOW! 15+ years. As for Jeff? a piece of crap? Message board f*****g garbage. I didn't know the dog, but that comment is so not cool.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> According to GSD database he was born in 94, WOW! 15+ years. As for Jeff? a piece of crap? Message board f*****g garbage. I didn't know the dog, but that comment is so not cool.


Actually Sarah, this is an old thread, Asko died in '08. As to Jeff's comment, well we just consider the source, & figure someone must have pissed in his cherrios again. Jeff can say what he wants, the fact of the matter is the accomplishments of Asko and his progeny speak for themselves. the proof is in the points.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

Oh. Duh. The date. Geez....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: the proof is in the points.
__________________
"Utility is the true criterion of beauty"- capt. Max von Stephanitz

Now you are seeing what I am saying. Lack of character is not a joke.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

What are you basing your opinion on Jeff? I think it's probably fair to say you didn't know the dog, you never saw the dog, (save for a couple of you tube video clips), you have seen none of his progeny, (save for a couple of you tube video clips), and you have no involvement in schutzhund (save for what you watch on video clips). Surely someone as knowledgable as yourself knows better than to judge an animal and all his progeny based upon what they see on the internet?


Of course everyone doesn't have to like the dog, it just would be nice if opinions could be based in fact and not based on what people glean from a few videos they watch on the internet.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

God, wouldn't it suck to find out that I knew the dog ?? What a bummer that would be for you, especially since you think so highly of this dog.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I dont know the dog and have not seen enough of his offspring to have a real opinion. But one of the nicest GSDs that I have seen was an Asko son, for whatever that is worth. I dont even know who the mother of that dog was, but I remember the owner saying it was an Asko son. That dog has also died I believe, he was about 7 when I saw him a few years ago, but he made an impression on me and I still remember him.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Let's deal in reality here, Jeff. 

#1. I KNOW you didn't know the dog, Jeff. 

#2. I don't think he was the greatest GSD that ever walked the planet, but he was one of the best of his day, he won everything under the sun, his lines are important lines and many of his progeny back that up. Take a look at the kennels that took their bitches to him, take a look at the trainers who had such huge success with his progeny and ask yourself why. 

I will tell you one thing, it sure as hell wasn't for his looks because he was one ugly mother ****er!!!!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

3. PLUS NO GAY HEELING!!!!! - FOR THAT REASON ALONE I'M SURPRISED HE'S NOT ON JEFF'S TOP 10 HIT PARADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I was wandering the earth in the late 90's scouting locations for some club owners. Met the dog then. 

I didn't like the dog, and doesn't it suck that you made an ASSumption.

I am going to let you in on the gay heeling joke, as I know you don't watch the vids I put up of my dog. He heels the same stupid way.

Sorry you never got the joke, but then again, I am not suprised, look how you love this retard dog.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yeah, a bunch of accomplished breeders and trainers like what Asko and his progeny bring to the table so much they are training and or breeding to these dogs, incluing (but not limited to): Helmut Raiser, Fritz Biehler, Roland Seibel, Bill Kulla, Dean Calderon, Thomas Lapp, but what the hell do THEY know about it, right? AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I gotta go, see you guys later, have fun.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Last thing: You were in Germany "scouting locations for club owners" (whatever that means)......and you happened to meet up with Asko, watched him work and now know more than everyone else about him... 
Oh come on, this story line is too bizarre to even continue with a straight face.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Who knows if I know more, that isn't the point. Just don't like him.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Who knows if I know more, that isn't the point. Just don't like him.


You are a contrary and prickly guy, who is also very knowledgable. I just wish you would explain why you think he's a shitter. As I said I don't think he's the greatest GSD that ever walked the earth, but no where does anyone discuss his negatives, which is stupid, and obviously he had them. So I really would like to hear what you don't like about him


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

> I just wish you would explain why you think he's a shitter


I believe he has, Susan. He's said that Asko was a 'point dog' who lacked character. A 'performer' that was pretty to watch, but didn't really bring anything to the table, so to speak.

Am I right, Jeff?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Actually I don't see where he said that at all. 

Asko brought drive, hardness, courage, and a great genetic full, calm grip with a clear head. He also stamps his progeny with these things - when bred with the right bitches. We must remember that while many great breeders took their great and good bitches to Asko for these reasons, so did some take their mediocre bitches, and the dog is only half the equation, the bitch is the other half.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

It wasn't the gay heel Susan, it was his gay curly tail that Jeffy didn't like. That fluffy swoosh of a tail, made him look sissy like.

Yeah and I'm sure Jeff just "bumped" into Asko one day. (Laughing so hard I hurt something)


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

God knows Jeff doesn't need any help, but I'm bored today so I did a quick search. Jeff has said in the past conversations re: Asko:



> I DO NOT like the pretty winners so much.





> I prefer to breed to the dogs that do not appreciate being told what to do. That is where strength comes in.





> I think that there are much better dogs out there, and people are choosing this junker for all the wrong reasons.





> Asko to me looks like a dog that just wants to run off with the sleeve, and will put up with the BS to do so. And so, for me, with Asko, there is a strong desire to get the sleeve from the helper. This is very desirable in sport. You can see him adjusting himself in the B&H. He is also halfway back to the handler when the handler gets there.
> 
> He has a pretty big breakdown (slowing) on the courage test, and then you can see his intensity steps up in his barking. This to me is relieving the stress he felt. I really don't care for that, as it is not the first time he has done the dang thing.





> I do not want to see sleeve desperate dogs raised to the level of reverance like they are now. I like a different type if dog.
> Think about how much training, conditioning, it takes to compete at that level, and then look at how with all that, there are dogs that still put their feet on the helper, have to be put in the down, to keep the dog from harassing the helper. ... When the dogs instinct is strong enough to over ride years of training to the contrary, this is a dog that I like.





Of course, the nail in the coffin:


> The big thing for me is that damn gay tail.


 :lol:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

It's raining cats & dogs here, training has been cancelled, so:

I can only assume Jeff is talking about video from either the BSP or WUSV? Can you link me to the thread? 

I think it's way off base to categorize Asko as sleeve happy. First off, in schutzhund we want our dogs to arrest with a full mouth bite, as well as pull, but make no mistake, this is not indicative of a sleeve happy dog. Asko had a lot of natural aggression and imparts this to his offspring.

I call bulshit on the statement about Asko being half way back to his handler on the H&B. You may have found one video like this, but take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gBy8fKpGas. He glances back once, he only returns to his handler when recalled. He's on that helper as close as possible without molesting him.

No breakdown on the courage test, but not a flier either. Some trainers and training helpers actively discourage flying by dodging the dog as it comes in. Dog learns flying is a bad thing, not good for targeting at all. 

I think Jeff's over-all hatred of all things schutzhund just might color his opinion of any dog involved in schutzhund over the last 25 years. I think therefore what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I agree about the tail.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't have an opinion one way or another about Asko, just to clarify.


The thread that the quotes are from is here: http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f30/lary-von-der-staatchmact-how-ob-done-germany-9369/


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I think it's way off base to categorize Asko as sleeve happy. First off, in schutzhund we want our dogs to arrest with a full mouth bite, as well as pull, but make no mistake, this is not indicative of a sleeve happy dog.

You see what you see I see what I see. If you want a dog out of this junker, then fine. I am glad he is dead. Pulling is EXACTLY a sleeve happy dog.

Think about it. How do you reward a dog in Fagshund ??? Drop the sleeve. Of course all these dogs are "real" so they know to carry the sleeve so they cannot kill the poor guy.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2010)

The most I can say is that Asko's performance, in this particular footage seems, to be congruent with pronounced sleeve happiness. The constant yipping in the guarding is one thing. And that is certainly yipping if I ever saw it. 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2979315562186768152#


Compare to say...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2TdQ6wmbHE

I'm seeing very different basic approaches to this from the dog's perspective.

Tail is different, ears are different, bark is different, guarding is different....

The point is that the few dogs I can personally vouch for as genuinely aggressive, German Shepherds, _and _Schutzhund participants...they've never, ever displayed those things Asko is doing. Much more in common with Gator. But my truly objective points of reference are not astronomical in number, therefore, not only am I open to a conflicting interepretation, I welcome it. "Reading" dogs I know nothing about is something I'm really trying to get a handle on.

:?:


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2010)

Keeping in mind, this has zero bearing on what he apparently produces. Just going with what I'm seeing. He himself as a stand-alone performance is all I'm addressing.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't know how much difference it makes if there's a decoy or not in the blind............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdgqcB2ViUI&feature=related


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

Both have something in common with Asko.


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

You are kinda right, I think. On that first video of Asko below, even to a dumbass like me, his barking doesn't sound very convincing at all.



Steven Lepic said:


> The most I can say is that Asko's performance, in this particular footage seems, to be congruent with pronounced sleeve happiness. The constant yipping in the guarding is one thing. And that is certainly yipping if I ever saw it.
> 
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2979315562186768152#
> 
> ...


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## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

To you all I heard from sportdog companions that Asko died peacefully, looked damn good and 'till the day he dies he still walked his 4km next to the bike of his handler, and so on!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Just think, Bart makes big bucks doing seminars, apparently Now making all the "aggression" people look sorta silly. Kinda like I have been saying for how many years now ??

Asko was not a dog I cared for, but it has been interesting reading all the peoples thoughts about how great a stud he was an how awesome all his progeny are. Thats ok, people have different ideas of what sucks.

People still look to the B&H to show the dog off. LOL I think that better than anything I have said, this video shows new people that the B&H is a shaped exercise. If it were not, then why does most of Sch training evolve around the blind ??

Asko was an example of this training, and sucked, and had a gay tail, and should have been neutered. But of course by now, you know this. LOL

I do enjoy those that only learned from others getting the smack cracked out of them, especially when it is someone they have heard of, and of course would never question.

I do question, and will continue to question. Like why is Bellon so interested in Sch all of a sudden ?? Couldn't be the follower mentality and the $$$$$$$$$$$$ ???? Or could it ??? =D>=D>=D>=D>

I leave you with these parting notes, Asko was, is, and always be a shitter, and was the beginning of the end of watching who did what in Germany for me.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Just think, Bart makes big bucks doing seminars, apparently Now making all the "aggression" people look sorta silly. Kinda like I have been saying for how many years now ??
> 
> Asko was not a dog I cared for, but it has been interesting reading all the peoples thoughts about how great a stud he was an how awesome all his progeny are. Thats ok, people have different ideas of what sucks.
> 
> ...


:lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Oh damn Mike, I forgot that the only dog in your dogs pedigree worth two shits is the one I consider junk. After all, your dog could only take after him.

I wonder if Asko needed work on the strength of his bite as well ?? =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Just think, Bart makes big bucks doing seminars, apparently Now making all the "aggression" people look sorta silly. Kinda like I have been saying for how many years now ??
> 
> Asko was not a dog I cared for, but it has been interesting reading all the peoples thoughts about how great a stud he was an how awesome all his progeny are. Thats ok, people have different ideas of what sucks.
> 
> ...


Yeah some of us are real strange in that we actually learn from those who have accomplished one or two things in real life on the field rather than listening to a bunch of internet theory on dog training. You have been told by more than a few that there is a difference in the way a dog behaves in the blind with a helper as opposed to what Bart Bellon is doing with the ball in the blind, but you refuse to see it because it's easier for you to continue to mock what you don't understand. You have proven nothing about Asko, your entire knowledge of him is what you have seen in one video. Now that is funny!

Once again you and I will just have to agree to disagree, but thanks for the laughs it was fun while it lasted!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes, that extra trip a few years back was to see a video on.......wait, no they didn't have it back then, what was I thinking. It was the dog in person. What do you know.

Quote: You have been told by more than a few that there is a difference in the way a dog behaves in the blind with a helper as opposed to what Bart Bellon is doing with the ball in the blind, but you refuse to see it because it's easier for you to continue to mock what you don't understand.

I have been told by who ?? Who was it that told me, and what makes their opinion so warm and special to me ?? I really don't remember being "told" anything, except by you, and I am sure that there is an extensive list of dogs that you have taught to do the bark and hold. 

OH NO, THE TRUTH COMES OUT ! ! YOU JUST KNOW WHAT THEY TELL YOU !!!!!!!

So tell me again these special special people that "told" me something ??


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I remember the Bellon video was the subject of one of your threads a while back. Well here you go Jeff I will say it, you are the greatest Internet dog trainer in all the land. Sorry, I am odd in that I would prefer to spend my time on the field with proven, successful trainers from the USA and Europe rather then arguing endless Internet theory which almost inevitably dissolves into personal attacks. It's not healthy or productive, so I don't see the point. I'm one of those dummies that has to be shown the work.

Sorry Jeff I'm not buying your story about how "I was wandering the earth in the late 90's scouting locations for some club owners. Met the dog then." That doesn't even make any sense, buddy. And if you want to start talking about who has trained what you go first. Just once I'd like you to provide the names of all these top dogs you titled in schutzhund. Usually this is the place where you get real vague, defensive and insulting.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I don't care if you believe me. I don't care if you like the dog or not, the point is, you DON'T KNOW HOW TO TRAIN THIS. HOW CAN YOU HAVE AN OPINION BASED ON WHAT SOMEONE ELSE IS TELLING YOU, AND EXPECT ME TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.
](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> and will never be forgotten.


I love dogs as much as the next guy... but... it's a dog.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I don't care if you believe me. I don't care if you like the dog or not, the point is, you DON'T KNOW HOW TO TRAIN THIS. HOW CAN YOU HAVE AN OPINION BASED ON WHAT SOMEONE ELSE IS TELLING YOU, AND EXPECT ME TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.
> ](*,)](*,)](*,)


 
I don't know how to train what Jeff? I'm not the one who pisses all over anyone who has the gall to disagree with them, and I'm not the one who tries to bluff everyone into believing I know everything under the sun about dog training, that would be you! Now you're so pissy you are screaming and not even making any sense. Again Jeff, what are the names of all those big time dogs you titled in schutzhund? How come no one involved in schutzhund in the USA or Europe has EVER heard of you? You talk a big game but can never back it up. Wonder why?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You still have to rely on what others tell you in training. And yes, this does make your opinion less valid. Theory, vs actual experience.

I know this is a hard pill for you to swallow, but you, and many others on this board need to start taking it. Just because you saw a dog doing the B&H from a distance doesn't mean you can train this exercise.

Of course, you could join Al Curbow in his video training of the OG, only you could get a dog and train the B&H from the beginning, with YOU in the blind.

That would be cool. Then after you do this about a hundred times, you can have an opinion that I, and many others could respect.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You still have to rely on what others tell you in training. And yes, this does make your opinion less valid. Theory, vs actual experience.
> 
> I know this is a hard pill for you to swallow, but you, and many others on this board need to start taking it. Just because you saw a dog doing the B&H from a distance doesn't mean you can train this exercise.
> 
> ...


Actually I do and have trained the H&B exercize which is something you CAN'T say. I train it with a helper in the blind, not using a ball, but that's just me. You are a fantastic Internet trainer though, I'll give you that. You also do a good job of redirecting and deflecting when asked a direct question regarding your own actual REAL experience on the field not on the computer. Once again I ask you to show us all the proof that you know what you are talking about, that you have actually titled dogs in the sport of schutzhund. Shouldn't be hard for someone so expert as you claim to be.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The great thing about the video challenge I laid out for you is that it would only take a few sessions of you doing all the dogs in your club in the B&H to maybe get taken seriously.

I have a few videos you can watch. I trained the decoys that worked my dog. Of course I didn't spend hours and hours training the dog, he figured it out pretty good.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Gee thanks, but I have no problem with myself or my dog being taken seriously. Your arrogance is underwhelming but very good for a laugh. Have a great day, Jeff.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Just make a video of you in the blind teaching dogs over and over again. I am pretty sure you will have a lot of fun. MAKE THE VIDEO !!!!!!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

So ..... the topic (Asko von der Lutter ) is done?


If anyone has more actual topic discussion, we'll be happy to reopen the thread.


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