# Worthless dogbreeds...



## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Do you consider any currently recognized dog breed, in its current general state, to be worthless?

My 3 picks are:

English Bulldog
Great Dane
Chow Chow


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Great Danes - were they ever meant for anything? My friend has one, n she's a nice dog, but worthless as anything other than a pet. She's the sweetest friendliest dog in the world, super soft, very easy to train (yet she still doesn't seem to listen to anyone but me :lol: all I have to do is give a tug on the excess strap of her e-collar n she takes it as a hard correction), but she's scared of everything, she won't sit if you tell her sit on a tile floor (well, unless I tell her, because she knows I will correct her if she doesn't lol other people go "awww she doesn't wanna sit on the tile"), she's scared of the big beach ball in the pool, she's scared of the big blue ladder, she's scared of flashing lights, she's scared of pumpkins, she's scared of people rattling keys in her face. I think much of it is to do with the upbringing, but the genetics are a huge factor.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Pugs





:::::ducking and running::::::::: :lol:


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Do you consider any currently recognized dog breed, in its current general state, to be worthless?
> 
> My 3 picks are:
> 
> ...


The three you listed, PUGS, minature and toy poodles (standards can actually herd...believe it or not LOL), pekinese, chinese crested, chihuahua (of all types), and the AmBred shepherd :lol: (low-crawling and hiding out in a well concealed fox hole LOL -- just remember that I love my Andibelle people LOLOL).


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## Reinier Geel (Apr 4, 2006)

In defence of Great Danes, I have trained two, and believe me there is a lot of dog there, that I can vouch for  very obedient, intelligent and they have a good bite  and strong as hell. Maybe it was because they were raised by one of my trainers  a young girl, now a woman  never the less, my wife always say where men fail woman should get called in to do a proper job -LOL


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

American Bred GSD's bred for american show ring. Ruined.
Chinese Crested.......Reminds me of a Picasso painting


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't think any dog is worthless if the owners are happy with it, i guess it's all about what you're looking for in a dog. What's wrong with dogs bred in america? If you think that you can't breed good dogs here just cause it's american soil you're misinformed, one dog comes to mind and that dog would fit anybody in the worlds definition of a serious, stable dog, and he was bred right here in the USA. For instance, Leerburg kennels are a breeding kennel so i don't understand what you mean i guess....


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> I don't think any dog is worthless if the owners are happy with it, i guess it's all about what you're looking for in a dog. What's wrong with dogs bred in america? If you think that you can't breed good dogs here just cause it's american soil you're misinformed, one dog comes to mind and that dog would fit anybody in the worlds definition of a serious, stable dog, and he was bred right here in the USA. For instance, Leerburg kennels are a breeding kennel so i don't understand what you mean i guess....


Al, Leerburg Kennels breeds imported dogs. I have an "AmBred" and an SV style. There is a BIG difference IMO, on structure and temperment, as well as working ability, of the dogs. It's not to say that a shepherd bred on American soil is worthless...there is a certain type of dog that wins AKC conformation shows and that's what we're talking about.

This is a tongue-in-cheek subject for me. No dog is honestly "worthless." They are all lovable little creatures (well, most lol). I think Andres's question was in relation to work, be that hunting, herding, ppd, k-9, sport, rat killing, or the other numerous things for which dogs are bred (I know I've left a lot out). Bulldogs can't protect any longer, not sure what hte history is on Great Danes, pugs are the Imperial Dogs of China but don't "do" anything other than keep man company.

No offense meant here...


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I wish I could have raised my friends great dane, I have seen bitework from a dane before on video n it's cool as hell, but the danes I've encountered are pretty "ehh". I think breeding makes alot of difference, as well as who's raising the dog. I think chasing the dog around the house at halloween time with a pumpkin doesn't do much for the dogs nerves :lol: Poor dog, I get mad anytime people intentionally scare her because they think it's funny seeing such a big "chicken dog".... she wouldn't be a chicken dog if people quit making her one.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I try to judge a dogs worth by temperment, not breed. My youngest daughter has a real $#!+ kickin little Mexican Chi dog. She wont back down from any one at the door and has killed a squirrel almost as big as she is. 
There are dozens of breeds that I will never look to own, but I have no doubt there are good dogs in any breed. Just might have to look reeeeeely hard with some. :wink:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Definitely tongue in cheek...

...and I'm talking about the general state of a breed...based on stability.

Let's say, Irish Wolfhounds...in general, are still a lot of dog. As are Salukis, Pomeranians, Yorkies, Dalmatians, Sharpei, Beagles, and so on. IN GENERAL. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT EXCEPTIONS.

BTW, thanks for the reminder...I had forgotten about Pugs.   

...and I have my doubts regarding St. Bernards and Cocker Spaniels... 8)


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Al, the problem is american bred GSD's for the conformation SHOW RING. I guess I didn't say conformation in my previous post so maybe it wasn't clear. I have a problem with any breeder of any dogs that are bred soley for the conformation show ring because so many things become exagerated for the show ring, such as angulation, or wierd heads.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> BTW, thanks for the reminder...I had forgotten about Pugs.


Connie is gonna do some ferocious editing when she gets back. :twisted: Andres, you might just become an American GSD show person whether you want to or not. 

Afghan Hounds I never really understood. Lap dogs I guess I get because they're bred to be spoiled and nasty and make their owners look like silly idiots, at which they are very, very good.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Al, the problem is american bred GSD's for the conformation SHOW RING. I guess I didn't say conformation in my previous post so maybe it wasn't clear. I have a problem with any breeder of any dogs that are bred soley for the conformation show ring because so many things become exagerated for the show ring, such as angulation, or wierd heads.


HEY! Andi doesn't have angulation or a wierd head. She just has no working ability, hip dysplasia, food aggression, zippo prey drive, and bat ears.

My brother has both a pug and a bulldog. He loves useless animals. Of course now that his wife si pregnant with #2 and he's on a 90 day rotation to Italy, both dogs have suddenly had to find foster homes. I must be super woman managing three kids, three dogs, and a house with a husband who works 80+ hours a week. I even did it  PREGNANT with a husband in Iraq. My god...and my aunt, who is fostering LuLu the bulldog, tried to give her to a BYB breeder until I threw a hissy fit. The person has no clue what lines the dog is, ,has never seen her, and tells my aunt he'll take for his breeding program nad no one but me sees an issue with that? I'll pay for hte dog's spay dangit! BTW she's actually out of ch Polish lines and my bro paid out the ass for her...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Nobody said there is anything wrong with dogs bred on American soil, Al. Why are you being so defensive?


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Susan, sorry if you took it that way, i'm not being defensive  . Say a professional breeder years ago picked out good working dogs and started their own line , the dogs are born and bred in the USA and that line continues on with the breeder adding in and subtracting out what they think is prudent, and throughout the years the breeder puts out good dogs here in America....... I guess it's a question of why can't/don't people call them good american working line dogs? Somewhere down the road most Americans are decendents from Europe and Africa and we're considered Americans. How many generations have to go by till it's an American bred dog?


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Again, the reference to "American bred dogs" is to the AKC style show German Shepherds. That's what everyone is referring to when they say "Ambred" or "American bred shepherd." :wink:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Al, you weren't acting defensive, I threw my back out so I'm acting pissy. I'm sorry.

I agree that there are now some good people here in the states breeding working dogs. That's why there is hope. I think back in the 70's & 80's the phrase American Working GSD was almost an oxymoron! The really sad thing is the huge chasm between those breeders you are talking about (& I admire), and what ends up winning championships in AKC conformation shows. 

By the by, I want to say I think dogs that are "pets" are wonderful and do have an important place in the world. I don't think "pet" is a dirty word!


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Both my dogs are pets, one just has an attitude problem


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Which one? lol


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

You know, English Cockers were nice, but now that they are becoming more popular, they are starting to have more coat & loosing that distinguished roman nose.

Does anyone know what Chinese Crested were originally bred for (aside from appearance)?


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> You know, English Cockers were nice, but now that they are becoming more popular, they are starting to have more coat & loosing that distinguished roman nose.
> 
> Does anyone know what Chinese Crested were originally bred for (aside from appearance)?


From what I can tell, this about sums it up:

http://www.katchme.com/dogs/cresteds/crestedhistory.htm

No purpose, touted as an "exotic" breed. Here's the standard:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/chinese_crested/index.cfm It says the breed serves as loving, entertaining companion.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

> Both my dogs are pets, one just has an attitude problem





> Which one? lol


I'm guessing this one


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Stacia Porter said:


> susan tuck said:
> 
> 
> > You know, English Cockers were nice, but now that they are becoming more popular, they are starting to have more coat & loosing that distinguished roman nose.
> ...


 :-k :-k I'm wondering if they grow them without hair so they're easier to clean before ya eat em? Stir fried with a little soy sauce maybe?


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> :-k :-k I'm wondering if they grow them without hair so they're easier to clean before ya eat em? Stir fried with a little soy sauce maybe?


ROFL. That might explain it, IF this weren't actually an American breed! Yep, the history I read explained that this breed was developed right here in the good old U.S. "Chinese" is a misnomer.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Stacia Porter said:


> Bob Scott said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


 :roll: I guess next you'll be telling me the Austrailian Shepard is an American breed.   :wink:


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> :roll: I guess next you'll be telling me the Austrailian Shepard is an American breed.   :wink:


If the shoe fits Bob...

http://www.glassportal.com/herding/shepherd.htm

Do we Americans have a problem with owning the dogs we breed? I'm wondering if we don't slap 'em with foreign titles so if they end up bad or unpopular we can shirk the blame? "HEY, we Americans sure didn't breed that hairless abomination! It was the Chinese I tell ya!!!"


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> :roll: I guess next you'll be telling me the Austrailian Shepard is an American breed.   :wink:


Actually it is, in 1873 a guy from Australia imported a bunch of dogs from a cattle ranch in Texas because he really liked how they worked n created the Australian Sheppard breed that we know and love today.

I know, I'm full of crap


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol: :lol: Now how did I know that I was gonna get comments on the Aussies?! :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> :lol: :lol: Now how did I know that I was gonna get comments on the Aussies?! :lol: :lol: :wink:


Because you knew that only in America would the official name of a breed be spelled Sheppard? Honestly, though...the AKC had it as Shepherd. 

You're just teasing us Grandpa Bob. You just want to see us all get our ire up. YOU'RE TRYING TO INCREASE MY BLOOD PRESSURE. Admit it: you're starting your career as a internet TROLL. I'm telling Connie...


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Troll? Bob, is this true? Should I use my moderator powers to un-moderate your moderator status to be a moderated non-moderator like the rest of the moderated non-moderators out there that we are supposed to moderate?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Troll? Bob, is this true? Should I use my moderator powers to un-moderate your moderator status to be a moderated non-moderator like the rest of the moderated non-moderators out there that we are supposed to moderate?


MOD EDIT: Wait............ what? I'm sure there's a mod edit in there.....


P.S. Bob, Selena called you a troll, very much like when WOODY CALLED YOU A HIPPIE.

I'm baaaaack!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Pugs
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am changing my avatar....NOW! The glare of Leo-the-Pug will shame you..... It will be like The Telltale Heart.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol: :lol: I think I shudda stayed in bed this morning. :lol: :lol: 
Hippie! Troll!  And me being such a nice ol grandpa! :wink: 
Mike, I have NO idea what you said! :lol: :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Definitely tongue in cheek...
> 
> ...and I'm talking about the general state of a breed...based on stability.
> 
> ...


Could I just jump in here and preface this with: I am not a "Pug
(or any toy breed) person"; I tend to rescue desperate dogs (made
desperate by human stuff and not dog issues) and I've had two 
toy breeds now.

But the toy breeds were bred to be nothing but companions. 
If that's the purpose, then how can fulfilling that purpose make 
them worthless?

Based on stability, as Andres words it, Pugs would have to be 
waaaaay up on the list, IMO. Not yappy, not aggressive, very 
Velcro on their humans, not antsy, generally calm and low-
energy -- for a toy, what else could anyone ask in the way 
of temperament? 

BUT (big huge BUT), their conformation is a tragedy. The idea 
of breeding a dog for "human" features like a flat face instead of 
a normal snout -- that's just wrong. If they didn't know it when 
they did it, they sure figured it out damned fast when the crowded 
teeth, collapsing trachea, asthma and other breathing/lung issues, 
and allergies cropped up (like on Day One).

So for me, conforming to purpose and maintaining stability are a 
whole different topic from "worthless" as considered from the 
physical aspect.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Wasn't there a thread not too long ago about all these tragic mispellings? Oy...

Sheppards, rockweilers, pit bull terrors, doxhounds, miniature Doberman pinchers, chiwawas, Belgium Malinwha? Let us not forget all the designer mixed breeds in which they can't even decide what to call the horrible overbred little bags of fur, either Maltipoos or Maltepoos. 

I don't like always being so anal that I am a grammar (not grammer, UGH!) Nazi, but it's like yeesh, go read a book. 8) :lol: 

_Personally_ (being the keyword), the dogs that I have no use for are beagles (no offense!), dachshunds (I have yet to meet one I have really liked), any poodles besides the standards, English or American cocker spaniels that are not bred with hunting function in mind, and just about any other toy dog or small terrier other than the bully terriers (which I think should be moved to the working breed grouping) under 35 lbs. :twisted:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell said:


> .......and just about any other toy dog or small terrier other than the bully terriers (which I think should be moved to the working breed grouping) under 35 lbs. :twisted:


Well, I guess Bob Scott's working earth dogs (JRTs and BTs, I believe) and my grandogs (BTs, working) fall in there.

Aside from the disregard for personal safety some of these dogs have (maybe "excessive gameness"?), I'd be hard-pressed to call a dog who is doing the work for which he was bred "useless."

BTs are known as "a workmanlike little fellow in a plain brown suit." 

:wink: Maren, I fully understand that these are personal preferences and also tongue-in-cheek, but these are my granddogs here! :lol: Plus, I just went to see them all the way on the other coast last week, and was reminded again of their excellent dog-ness. 

So there.  

P.S. I'm really teasing..... I'm sure we can all have our preferences.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I suspek mi grammere an spellung drivez lots of fokes crazy even though i red lots of buks i think starting in the midle and workin my wya out to the sides cud be the caz of some of mi problums. 
As a kid, I read two sets of encyclopedias cove to cover. Never could figure ot the story line though. ADHA at it's best!   :wink: 

My terrieres aren't working dogs?!!    :wink: 

Two receint "breeds I've seen in the past couple of years are Borderjacks. Border colliexJRT. These are used as the height dog in flyball.
The Pitypat. PitbullxPaterdale terrier. They use these for lower weight pull classes.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

and don't forget the "beagle brigade"......I am not fond of the ugly little dogs but they do seem to have a good bit of utility in detection work and hunting, and I am not sure but it *seems* in most hounds there is not as strong a delineation between workiing and show as in herding and sporting breeds.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I am gone less than a week and this is what happens?

They are all worthless as a breed.

Someone said there are breeders here in U.S.A. that breed GSD's and have their own line????? Where? And what percentage are they of the total???? U.S. breeders with their own lines, honestly you are killing me. :twisted: :twisted:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

No offense to anyone, it's just my personal preferences.  Herding and working dogs are my fav and some of the hounds and sporting breeds aren't bad (I still want a Scottish deerhound!). Just personal preference for smart, trainable, athletic, larger dogs, I guess?

My problem I see with beagles is that people think they are cute little dogs with big soft brown eyes and they treat them like a toy dog. Now, teeny little toy dogs are another story entirely, but beagles were bred to run miles and miles and miles after their quarry. Not stay at home all day and become fat little sausages on legs like I see half the beagles around here become, just like 90% of dachshunds are. I've also been seeing a trend towards dog aggressive beagles, which is also not supposed to be part of their breed standard. We usually have like 1-3 purebred beagles (sometimes more) at any one time at the shelter I foster/volunteer for. I think half of it is because people don't realize these are hounds, not toy dogs, and the other half don't realize that they should not be left off leash as they will go and go and go.

Now, a JRT worth its salt is like a Malinois in a 15 lbs body. In other words, completely insane and right up my alley. :lol: j/k! As far as "true" terriers go (I still think the bullies like the Staffies, AmStaffs, APBTs, and the BTs belong in the working group despite their terrier roots), I guess I have a bit more tolerance towards a few of the bigger terriers, like Airedales and Kerry Blues, but the smaller ones obviously need a job like Earth Dog because I can't stand perpetual yapping and chasing my feet. Maybe it's because I have yet to meet a Westie, miniature schnauzer, or a Scottie that I can tolerate? :wink:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> I am gone less than a week and this is what happens?


I hope you haven't been drinking too much in despair...in the knowledge that purely motivational isn't gonna cut it with your dog??!!

Don't worry...it's OK to yank on some prongs, zap, or both...hard. Remember, you have a Malinois! :twisted: :lol: 

Hey Jeff...the emoticons don't do justice to how much I'm smiling right now.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am gone less than a week and this is what happens?....They are all worthless as a breed....


Thank heaven you're back to straighten us out. :lol: 

Who is all worthless as a breed? GSDs? I got a little lost there.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have hung my dog right up by the neck. There is an awefull lot of drive at work there. I do use corrections, and have no problem being harsh whatsoever, he just doesn't care all that much. This is the internet, and I know that most people love Fluffy oh so dearly :roll:. I love my dog, but an appropriate correction tends to make him be more insistant in his bad behavior.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

I don't remember where I read that "a correction should be hard enough to interrupt the behavior"...

:lol: 

...with a very HARD dog sometimes you need to break down and re-build.

Other times, it's just a matter of waiting for the stupidity to go away and digging DEEP into one's patience reserves...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff, you need to get some doggy cookies and do more walkies with your dogs. It will do your soul some good. Help you find inner peace and all that other "stuff".     :wink:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Bob...
I thought everyone in CO had inner peace...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Bob...
> I thought everyone in CO had inner peace...


Naw! I think it's light headedness from the altitude.  
JEEZE! And I'm a moderator :roll: . 
Jeff, your back one day and already your stiring pots. 
WELCOME BACK BRO! :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:a correction should be hard enough to interrupt the behavior"... 

It was hard enough to interrupt the behavior. Now ask me if I think most people on the boards actually train dogs :twisted: No need to tell all, I may be fat, but I am not Oprah.  :lol: 

Thank you Bob, always glad to provide the spice needed.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell said:


> .....As far as "true" terriers go (I still think the bullies like the Staffies, AmStaffs, APBTs, and the BTs belong in the working group despite their terrier roots), I guess I have a bit more tolerance towards a few of the bigger terriers, like Airedales and Kerry Blues, but the smaller ones obviously need a job like Earth Dog because I can't stand perpetual yapping and chasing my feet.......




An under-35-pound BT, zero yapping, zero feet-chasing, working dog (ret.):


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell said:


> .....I still think the bullies like the Staffies, AmStaffs, APBTs, and the BTs belong in the working group despite their terrier roots........


Are you maybe mixing up BTs with something else? I'd have trouble calling them a bully breed. 

http://www.btcr.org/bts.html

I think a lot of people don't recognize BTs, maybe because of the fact that they aren't particularly common in the U.S.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The Borders will always be my favs. Love em!

BT is also used to refer to the Bull Terrier.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> The Borders will always be my favs. Love em!
> 
> BT is also used to refer to the Bull Terrier.


OH! THAT's why the inclusion with the bully breeds! :lol: 

I get it now.     

Yes, Borders are excellent dogs, IMHO. Game, brave, non-yappy, 
hard-working, athletic, and completely un-fancy!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Bob Scott said:
> 
> 
> > The Borders will always be my favs. Love em!
> ...


Oh yeah, I meant bull terriers! Shoulda clarified. Darn acronyms.  It was funny cause some people have trouble thinking of acronyms and we had a long time forum member on another dog forum I frequent finally just break down and ask "what does GSD and GSP and APBT and (etc etc) mean?!"


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

That IS funny. You'd think the context would eventually give a clue.

Must've been hard to struggle along reading posts and not knowing those breed acronyms!  

She probably owned one of them...........


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Yeah, she was probably really (and understandably) quite confused! I don't know how some folks from some breeds talk online about their dogs without them though, like the Glenn of Imaal terrier or even worse, the Petite Basset Griffon Vendeen (sp?). These kids these days and their chatspeak! :wink:


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