# I Need Help!



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Alright gang, I need your help. Has anyone who feeds raw or mostly raw recently gotten a full blood/chemistry panel done on your dogs? Can you post it along with the dog's breed, sex, intact or spayed/neutered, age, what kind of raw diet you follow (whole prey model style, BARF style, a little of both) etc? Even if you don't know what all the values on the blood panel mean (I only know a few so far), I sure would appreciate it for use for the vets on VIN.com who love to bash the raw diet.


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

I've been feeding my female Rottweiler BARF for two years. I'm having a OFA thyroid test done this week. I'll post after I get the results back


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Thank you, Frank. And anyone else, please do so. [-o< The more I can get, the stronger it is statistically.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'd love to see the results of this. Even if the anti-raw folks aren't convinced I think it would be a great way to find what your own version of raw may, or may not be lacking in. 
A great chance to balance things out a bit more.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

A blood/chemistry panel won't necessarily tell you if you are deficient. It's just a snap shot of lots of different things, like how the liver and kidneys are working, if you could have parasites, infection, allergies, etc. It's just amazing how many diplomates of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition seem to just out and out refuse to believe that a dog can thrive on a home prepared diet.

Other request: report your OFA/Penn Hip score on your pups if you don't mind, especially if raised from puppyhood solely or mostly on raw.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I have had two bloodworks done on my raw fed dog.

BUN levels are always elevated in my dog. From what I understand this is not uncommon for raw fed dogs. I think Jean Dodds has a paper on it perhaps, but my memory fails me now. I have had urine test done to check kidney function both times with everything looking really good there.

The vet that does these for me is not into raw, but thinks my dog looks good and healthy and says to go ahead and keep doing what I am doing. I feed a bit of prey bit of barf...wide assortment of protien sources.

My dog is a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, male, altered. Raw fed since 8 months of age approx. GLU was also high both times, but the dog is VERY uneasy at the vet and the vet considers this to be the cause.

The first one was at two years and these are the results:

WBC: 13 MCV: 70
RBC: 6.99 MHC: 24.2
HGB 16.9 MCHC: 34.7
HCT: 48% RDW: 12.3
PLT: 40 $ MPV: 9.8 $

There is some other stuff WBC Flags and Diff, do you need that too?


ALB: 3.8
ALP: 27
ALT: 27
AMY: 448
TBIL: 0.4
BUN: 28
CA: 10.3
PHOS: 3.8
CRE 1.2
GLU: 6.0
NA+: 135
K+: 4.2
TP: 6.2
GLOB: 2.4



I failed to get the ones I did at three years of age, need to call the vet. I am going out of town however, I could post them in a couple of weeks.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Other request: report your OFA/Penn Hip score on your pups if you don't mind, especially if raised from puppyhood solely or mostly on raw.
__________________


Maren My dog has been raised soley on RAW, and he just got OFA "good" on hips and his elbows passed too.


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

Raw Food is a larger umberella.

The Meaty Bones school is going to have different blood values than the BARF, Vegan or Whole prey models.

I feed BARF 80% and Meaty Bones 20% on a weekly basis. My % of protein on a weelky basis is 20 to 40% depending on conditioning levels. Voulume is also regulated by activity.

My Female Rotty was rateds OFA excellent at 29 mos. elbows clear


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Frank Smego said:


> Raw Food is a larger umberella.
> 
> The Meaty Bones school is going to have different blood values than the BARF, Vegan or Whole prey models.
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right. This is not a formal retrospective study. It is more of a survey designed to show that yes, high performance working and sport dogs can do well on a raw home prepared diet.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Frank Smego said:


> Raw Food is a larger umberella.
> 
> The Meaty Bones school is going to have different blood values than the BARF, Vegan or Whole prey models.


 
VEGANS?????..............VEGANS??? Back up the RV and let me off. I refuse to be lumped into the same group as anyone who thinks it's a good idea for dogs to eat nothing but veggies.


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> VEGANS?????..............VEGANS??? Back up the RV and let me off. I refuse to be lumped into the same group as anyone who thinks it's a good idea for dogs to eat nothing but veggies.


Why would that be?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

hmmph, let's see...how about reverse snobbism, I'm not into tie-die, I like real leather leads, I feed RAW and my dog would look at me funny if I handed him some celery sticks, take your pick.


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> hmmph, let's see...how about reverse snobbism, I'm not into tie-die, I like real leather leads, I feed RAW and my dog would look at me funny if I handed him some celery sticks, take your pick.


So your position is not based on nutritional value, it's based of sterotype, prejudice and projection of your human emotions into your dog's reactions?

What exactly do you feed your dogs?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Gosh I thought the answer to your question was obvious, so I tried a little humor, I can see you missed it so let me be clear: Dogs need meat in order to thrive, and do not thrive on all vegetarian diets. Of course there is a peta study that says they do, so I guess it must be true...
What exactly do I feed my dogs? I feed them RAW as I said before. If you want to know specifically what I feed my dog, look it up on the What do you feed your dogs poll.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I have Zane's (malinois) blood test results from when he was 8.5 months old, he had fasted for over a 12 hour period prior
...another one will be done next weeks when he goes in for his 3 yr rabies vaccination - with no fasting and I'll try to post it.

Zane has been on raw since he was weaned - I feed prey model:

Vetscan

ALP 34
ALT 30
BUN 15
CRE 1.0
GLU 120 - high - attributed to stress as he was catching on after the 2nd time of being brought out of vets kennel and being jabbed
- normal range for this test is 60-110 ** 3 days later it was 82 when I had him retested
TP 6.7



WBC 14.07
LYM 3.5
MON 1.03
GRA 11.5
LY% 21.8
MO% 6.4
GR% 71.8

RBC 8.37
HGB 16.3
HCT 53.16
MCV 64
MCH 21.9
MCHC 33.5
RDWc 14.9

PLT 259
PCT 0.27
MPV 10.5
PDWc 36.9


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Gosh I thought the answer to your question was obvious, so I tried a little humor, I can see you missed it so let me be clear: Dogs need meat in order to thrive, and do not thrive on all vegetarian diets. Of course there is a peta study that says they do, so I guess it must be true...
> What exactly do I feed my dogs? I feed them RAW as I said before. If you want to know specifically what I feed my dog, look it up on the What do you feed your dogs poll.


Yes, I completely missed the humor, what part was funny again?

Was it the part that were you sterotyped Vegans at tie-dyed, anti-leather using , peta members?

Or was it the part were you you sent me to another thread to learn what you feed to find:

03-29-2006, 11:37 PM 
susan tuck







vbmenu_register("postmenu_402", true); 
Senior Member
*Landshark*
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: So Cal & Sequim, WA
Posts: 1,766 










Raw, but my back up kibble is Royal Canin
​


RAW means differant things to differant people, hence the question. 

My apologies to the OP for hyjacking the thread. I won't continue on this sub-topic. I will be happy to post info after my dog's blood tests come back.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Many of us joke around on this board. You are new, so perhaps you just need time to get the feel of it and it's members, and I'll be happy to overlook your rather stiff legged, snotty response. Oh and by the way, I didn't say vegans were Pita members, and I have no problem with vegans (except you, apparently) I do think feeding dogs nothing but vegetables is not healthy for dogs.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

The last dog I had to have a BT done was our 13 year old about a month before she died. I specifically asked about the calcium/phos numbers because we feed raw, and the vet said they were perfect. 

We do more of a prey model- no veggies or grains but a wide variety of RMB, meat and organs.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Just got back from the vet.....Zane is now 15 months and a week old - been on raw since weaned. He has never been ill (knock on wood) - he has lost a couple of pounds probably due to all the swimming we've been doing lately - he's 70.1 pounds right now. 

Zane's results ( normal range)

ALP 32 (20 - 150)
ALT 31 (10-118)
BUN 13 (7-25)
CRE .09 (0.3-1.4)
GLU 81 (60-110)
TP 6.3 (5.4-8.2)

On a side note: The vet was really impressed with his overall condition. Commented how muscular he is, as well as his coat condition. When he looked at his teeth...he actually said "Wow, very nice clean full dentation". What do you feed him - dry? My reply "No".....then he looked really puzzled and asked "Wet - I can't believe wet with teeth and muscles like that". I said "No - I feed him raw prey model"...he just shook his head looking kinda amazed or maybe just baffled:-o


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> A blood/chemistry panel won't necessarily tell you if you are deficient. It's just a snap shot of lots of different things, like how the liver and kidneys are working, if you could have parasites, infection, allergies, etc. It's just amazing how many diplomates of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition seem to just out and out refuse to believe that a dog can thrive on a home prepared diet.
> 
> Other request: report your OFA/Penn Hip score on your pups if you don't mind, especially if raised from puppyhood solely or mostly on raw.


I have one on long-term NSAIDs, and he goes today to re-check kidney and liver function. Is that sufficient, or what can I ask for to add to the info?


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