# Real police video



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Long chase----Dog runs with bad guy ----bites bad guy alittle----Dog bites police a couple of times-----

Second dog was better, well alittle better he didn't bite police as much

http://blutube.policeone.com/Clip.aspx?key=5E1E72EAE53841E3


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## gisela festerling (Sep 30, 2007)

I am sorry, I could not help but laugh. And I know it is serious business but darn, adding that music and the comments was just kind of funny....


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I was laughing at the music, too. :lol:


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Nothing wrong with the outcome. Both were caught.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

The suspects in this incident were two 15 year old runaways. Not so sure that it warrants a dog bite but the severity of this "crime" varies by jurisdiction.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> The suspects in this incident were two 15 year old runaways. Not so sure that it warrants a dog bite but the severity of this "crime" varies by jurisdiction.


YIKES! from a strictly dog deployment standpoint though, this video makes a good case for leg biting dogs...


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## Dick van Leeuwen (Nov 28, 2006)

To me it lookes like two dogs without (enough/good) proper practical training. In both situations the dog doesn't know how to handle the situation. 
It seems more like a training problem than a "dogproblem".


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Is that Brevard County Florida?


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Dick van Leeuwen said:


> To me it lookes like two dogs without (enough/good) proper practical training. In both situations the dog doesn't know how to handle the situation.
> It seems more like a training problem than a "dogproblem".


I agree with Dick. The dog seems to be "dancing" around the suspects(s). He does a few bites, lets go and then goes in again, lets go etc. Maybe the dog wasnt getting the commands from the officer and the dog really seemed not sure what to do.

A question here, seeing as the suspects were two 15 yr olds, would the dogs be confused/hesitant to bite kids? Im wondering if it threw the dogs cos these suspects were so young, especially if these dogs had a general training problem.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

just to add to back up my question here in the last post. If u see the video around the 3 min 35 mark the dog goes after the kid and grabs him at the tail end of his jacket/shirt. He doesnt take him down with a leg bite. The dog almost seems to be too "gentle" with the suspect.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

When the officer sends the dog he is sent to bite. A 15 year old can fire a gun as easily as any older person. Age of the suspect should make no difference to the dog. I see this vidoe as a training problem. It looks like in the video that a couple of officers were also bit but maybe the dogs just close enough to the offices to look like a bite. In any case the dog should have stayed after the suspect.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

That dog was playing to much, didn't seem at all serious. Hmmm wonder if they are B/H in Brevard Cty. At least he didn't bring the shirt back to the handler once it was ripped off the scrote.

DFrost


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> A 15 year old can fire a gun as easily as any older person. Age of the suspect should make no difference to the dog.


Thats too true. Like I said I was just wondering why the dog seemed to dance round the suspect more than really go after it and take the kids down. Seems to me it must be a training problem. The dog seemed very confused as to what is was suposed to be doing. :???:


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

IMO what you saw was a training problem. Both sends were totally prey oriented long sends. Question one would be are the dogs solid taking back bites on a suit and have they transferred that to muzzle work. I would have expected the bad guy to have gotten blasted and knocked over... game on!

The other question I would have… are they spending time setting up training deployments that mimic what you are seeing on the video? If you work with airships, you need to do some night training where you are doing searches / apprehensions with rotor wash and the night sun beaming down.

In your training you have to be one step ahead of what you may be asked to do on the street.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Matthew Grubb said:


> IMO If you work with airships, you need to do some night training where you are doing searches / apprehensions with rotor wash and the night sun beaming down.
> 
> In your training you have to be one step ahead of what you may be asked to do on the street.



Exactly and you do that training anywhere but at your training facility.

DFrost


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

David Frost said:


> Exactly and you do that training anywhere but at your training facility.DFrost


Personally.. I’d kill for a training facility! The reality is we hitch up our K9 Trailer and go find places to train. 

What business owner will let us run some training searches in their buildings tonight? 

What neighborhoods serve best the track training issue of the week? Neighborhoods, because we don’t do grassy fields when a robber runs out of 711. 

 Is it quiet enough out tonight that I can pull 4 patrol cars off the road for ½ hour to do actual high risk stops and apprehensions in a real world setting? 

I work every week with 9 dogs in my personal training group… I don’t want any of those handlers to come to me at training and tell me that they had a failure on the street… if they failed, I failed.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Uhhh what were the kids names ? ? ? ? I think I can rehab them into good decoys.:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Matthew Grubb said:


> Personally.. I’d kill for a training facility! The reality is we hitch up our K9 Trailer and go find places to train.
> 
> What business owner will let us run some training searches in their buildings tonight?
> 
> ...


anybody else hear pomp and circumstance playing in their head while reading this? maybe it's just me. i'm just sayin...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> anybody else hear pomp and circumstance playing in their head while reading this? maybe it's just me. i'm just sayin...



ha ha. Now that's funny right there. I know what he means. Having a facility is great. Conducting training in the actual environment, in my opinion, is better. We have many business that let us train in the evenings. In fact, they post a sign in their business stating, police working dogs use this facility for training. As for tracking, I really do like the fact that the vast majority of our tracks are country areas. We do some urban, but not very much.

DFrost


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

I dont know if I should say it but Im gonna anyway. All guys out there that do the real life policework we should all be damn proud of, and it doesnt matter which country they are in. Without them and of course the dogbrigade divisions, we sure would live in much unsafer surroundings. What dissapoints me is watching this video, because what if those two 15 yr olds had had firearms. That dog probably would not have been able to aid and maybe save the life of those officers if faced with guns...........thats scary! and those officers deserve the best out there helping them.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Hil, I couldn't agree more. As for the 15 year olds, national statistics show teens to be the fastest growing crime trend when it comes to violence, including murder.

DFrost


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Hil, I couldn't agree more. As for the 15 year olds, national statistics show teens to be the fastest growing crime trend when it comes to violence, including murder.
> 
> DFrost


Exactly David and thats why that video was scary. Sad really that they put the mickey mouse music to it because it makes the situation almost laughable while it could have been darn serious. If those kids had had guns, the dog would not have stopped them and then what?..the partners of those officers would have seen a car draw up their drive and colleagues bringing bad news and where's the mickey mouse music then?


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I have a question. 

How many officers would have sent their dog knowing that the bad guys had a gun? I know it will depend on the circumstances. In this video lets say the officers knew they had guns. Would the dog have been sent?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Like you said, it would depend on the circumstances. I would not rule out sending the dog. Suspecting someone has a weapon is like handling a weapon, I'll assume the subject is armed until I've personally checked to see. exactly like I would clear any weapon I picked up.

DFrost


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Uhhh what were the kids names ? ? ? ? I think I can rehab them into good decoys.:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:


 I know who they are so do I need to give you their names? I believe they are Jeff O. and David F. Does that ring any bell? I believe you know who they are!


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Tim Martens said:


> anybody else hear pomp and circumstance playing in their head while reading this? maybe it's just me. i'm just sayin...


Ouch!!!!!!


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> I have a question.
> 
> How many officers would have sent their dog knowing that the bad guys had a gun? I know it will depend on the circumstances. In this video lets say the officers knew they had guns. Would the dog have been sent?


Had one..yes. Waving it around..no.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Matthew Grubb said:


> Ouch!!!!!!


i was only playing with you. the sad truth of it is, we have to support each other because hardly anyone else does. at least that's the way it is with my unit. i've often said that K9 is the red headed step child of the bastard children (patrol) of the department...


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Tim Martens said:


> i was only playing with you. the sad truth of it is, we have to support each other because hardly anyone else does. at least that's the way it is with my unit. i've often said that K9 is the red headed step child of the bastard children (patrol) of the department...


lol so you guys get hand me down cars with 85K miles too!!


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Matthew Grubb said:


> lol so you guys get hand me down cars with 85K miles too!!


no way. my car is brand new (by K9 standards). it has 78K on the clock. my dog is 5 years old and i'll probably have this car for the rest of his career...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> i was only playing with you. the sad truth of it is, we have to support each other because hardly anyone else does. at least that's the way it is with my unit. i've often said that K9 is the red headed step child of the bastard children (patrol) of the department...


Isn't that the truth. Although we get new cars around 100.000 miles. Other than that I can identify with the red-headed bastard child.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

A civilian question here!
Does a dog that is making poor contact like this get put on probation? Sent for retraining? Retesting? Washed out? Put right back on the street? Depends on the dept?
JMHO, but it would seem to raise questions about the dog's qualifications!
Maybe I'm not truely understand what I'm seeing.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

In our department, that dog would be pulled from the road immediately, tested, retrained or replaced. I'd be very upset it got to that point. Knowing our handlers, the handler would have been standing on my desk first thing in the morning asking; what the hell happened here.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks David. Pretty much my thoughts also.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Cops don't esquive properly. Send the kids to me. Chained of course. LOL


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Yep, you have to keep the target moving so you can keep the dog locked in prey so he can keep trying to get a bite. LOL :razz:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Cops don't esquive properly. Send the kids to me. Chained of course. LOL



Ha ha, most of us don't know what an esquive is, let alone do it properly. Unless of course it has something to do with power rings.

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Ha ha, most of us don't know what an esquive is, let alone do it properly. Unless of course it has something to do with power rings.
> 
> DFrost


It does. It means dipping a power ring in coffee until it's totally soft (minimum 5 seconds) but then getting it from the coffee cup to the mouth without dropping pieces of it into the cup.

The winner is decided when everyone gets to the bottom of their cups.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Hmm, I happen to think i'm a champeen dunker too, by golly. I've mastered crossing the median at 65, coffee in one hand, power ring balanced on one knee, 

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Hmm, I happen to think i'm a champeen dunker too, by golly. I've mastered crossing the median at 65, coffee in one hand, power ring balanced on one knee,
> 
> DFrost


And without suing any restaurants for coffee-crotch?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> And without suing any restaurants for coffee-crotch?


Why goodness no. I'd be too embarrassed to admit I couldn't cross the median without spilling. I think that would reflect in the performance report.

DFrost


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> It means dipping a power ring in coffee until it's totally soft (minimum 5 seconds) but then getting it from the coffee cup to the mouth without dropping pieces of it into the cup.
> 
> The winner is decided when everyone gets to the bottom of their cups.


Now thats funny!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

QUOTE:
Ha ha, most of us don't know what an esquive is, let alone do it properly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl1fHrEATtQ

This might help.


Jay, I know that when you watch this video it moves really fast *** edit *** you have to watch something other than just the guy wacking the dog with a stick. See in a real mans sport, unlike *** edit *** "butch cappeling", we understand *** edit *** if a dog bites you........in the tricep (ha ha) you are not gonna "man up" and make a mean face at him. You are going to fall down, and hold real still hoping to God in heaven above that he doesn't take it off. See, "prey" dogs are not afraid of you. Add in a bit of dominance, and the dog is gonna make you his bitch.

So your basic understanding of what sports are about is flawed. It is flawed because you have this goofy idea that you need to "test" a dog. This comes from an inability to see what is there. Once you can see what is there, you do not have this insecurity anymore, and you grow past the "need to impress authority figure" stage.

So watch the dogs, and wonder what your dogs would do if they had to face these decoys that aren't gonna give them thier easy tricep bite.


Sorry, you just made it so easy to slam ** edit *** you, I had to let you have it.

:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I was impressed with pink suit.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Those decoys are quick as hell. Cool video


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Now some of those looked like people trying to avoid getting bitten, that I'm used to seeing. Minus the screaming, swearing etc. I understand that is French Ring right? Except for releasing the bite when the guy stands still, I like it. While we don't concentrate so much on the leg, we do try to make a dog miss and make him work for the bite. It is much more realistic to street performance. Most subjects don't really offer or present a place for the dog to bite. 

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Those 15 year olds had some pretty good moves.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Jeff, I really feel slammed here, oh you got me. Yeah right, try again buddy. Man are you sensitive about your lil sport, calm down, it'll be ok.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

David Frost said:


> Except for releasing the bite when the guy stands still, I like it.


The dog should only release the bite when he's told to, not because the decoy stands still. 

I have to admit I laughed my butt off at the original video posted, while at the same time going "wow, they need to have a few training sessions with the dogs, the handlers, and the other cops" But you can't help but laugh with that music.


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