# compatible or incompatible training methods



## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

I am more or less "in charge" of the trailing training of my group. We train every Sunday, with team members expected to train on their own in between times, of course (not that it always happens!). I work an every other week schedule, so can only make trainings every other week. Obviously this is not ideal, but right now we only have one other trailing dog in training, so it could be worse I guess. Here's the thing- I was taught to train trailing dogs with runaways ( I know some people don't like that and that's not the question here), working a single dog at a time, and then increasing the diffiulty as the dog is ready for it, woth exercises for teaching various things-scent pools, backtracks, etc. On the weeks I am not there is it appropriate for me to assume that the training leader in charge that day (who works air scent but has trained many dogs as trailers in the past) would contact me with what I think the trailing dog should do that day? I would think so, but this isn't happening. What's happening instead is that she sets up what she thinks is appropriate. The thing is, although she's trained a lot of trailing dogs in the past, she trained the dogs as a pack that ran off lead. We aren't doing that right now. I've never trained dogs like that, and while I've seen bits and pieces of it when we had a group of puppies just starting out, I've never seen the end result. Will it work with just a single dog? Is it compatible with the method of training that I use? or not? I know the obvious thing would be "well how's the dog doing? (remember, we only have one other trailing dog right now (I have 3)), and while this guy makes it to trainings, he rarely works his dog in between times, so its hard to say if the dog's lack of improvement is due to his not training the dog enough? or the incompatibility of training? this dog is a female BH, about 1 year old, and frankly isn't doing well at all. As a youngster the dog showed plenty of promise-a ton of drive, brave, forward, leader of the puppy pack, etc., but she's been quite the disappointment since. She's been "training" since about 8 weeks, and while she's capable of running a very fresh trail, she'll miss every turn by quite a ways before throwing a good negative and then slowly working her way back. 

In contrast, I have an almost 6 month old BH mix pup that I started at 3 months using my method and she's running 3+hr old trails with scent pools-high and low-backtracks, door ID's, etc, across varying terrain-dirt,grass,cliffs, water, roadwork, etc.. She's hardly perfect, but on the same type of trail she'll have about 1/4 the difficulty of the other dog-and that's assuming a fresh trail, since the older hound isnt capable of running the "older" trails yet. I set up each trail with a goal in mind to increase the dog's "trailing education". Drills, zigzag's, starburst's etc. For those that run packs, is it the same? So far what I'm hearing from the training's that I dont make is that they "ran a trail", etc, but I don't get any info on what the point of the trail was. I admit, sometimes my way can be boring to the handler-I make it fun for the dog but its not like we're out running these great complex trails every week, which is what a lot of people like it seems. 

I'm not uninterested in learning different methods, but it seems that most people who run trailers off lead run them in packs, and only in big open areas. I need my dogs to be able to work roads, because I run for my department as well and I never know who or where I'll be running. She doesn't seem interested in training dogs the way that I train, which is her perogotive, but is it harming the other trailing dogs? Should I just let her take over the trailing group entirely except for my dogs? Or are the two ways compatible enough that we can continue as is and the lack of improvement in the older BH is due to its lack of training hours and not the way its trained?

Thanks


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I can't answer whether either method is better or not, but I think you nailed the lack of progress

_and while this guy makes it to trainings, he rarely works his dog in between times, _

Is this enough training time, regardless of method, for his dog to learn and become good at what she needs to?

_On the weeks I am not there is it appropriate for me to assume that the training leader in charge that day (who works air scent but has trained many dogs as trailers in the past) would contact me with what I think the trailing dog should do that day? I would think so, but this isn't happening._

I would think so, too. It would be nice if everyone was on the same page for training and the handler wasn't being told one thing one week and something different the next.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

So is this dog alternating between onlead and offlead trailing? That would be confusing at this stage. 

Have to agree on the training frequency-at some point if you are not making progress it is time to move on.


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Sometimes she does on lead, sometimes off lead. I never know the rhyme or reason behind it, and she won't particularly explain to me her methodology. The only thing she'll really say is that he (the handler) isnt reading his hound at all, which is in contrast to what I see actually. His dog may not be performing at the level it should be at given its age and time in training, but for the level the dog is at the handler is at the appropriate level. He can read negatives, secondary ID's, etc. He's not had the opportunity to really learn more because the dog isn't there. He'll flank with me and he is capable of reading a lot of what my dogs throw out, so he's probably a bit farther ahead then that actually. He has decent enough feel for the dog-at least he's not getting in her way when he does run her. 

Obviously a huge issue is her lack of training, which I'm inclined to lay most of the blame at, but I can't help but think that this back and forth stuff has got to be confusing for a dog. Before I moved to Texas I trained horses professionally and I always stuck with one method, until I had evidence from the horse that a different method was more appropriate for its particular situation.

I'm not going to get into what method is better than the other. I dont know enough about training trailing dogs off lead to be able to comment on that, and as I've said I've never seen it done past the puppy pack stage.

Definately there are times I would like to cut my losses on that particular dog and handler combination, but I have to admit he does bring other things to the team. He's a great victim, has good mapping skills, good flanker, keeps up with any dog team, etc..So far he's worth hanging on to if only for the extras, but I wouldnt mind seeing that dog improve "a bit"(!) more!.

Thanks


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