# Jute Sleeves and the Like



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Does anyone train their PPD dogs withOUT using jute sleeves and similar type sleeves? If so, why? And does anyone feel that there is a great benefit to training a ppd dog using a sleeve and, if so, why please? Thanks.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

You mean starting the dog on a suit and never showing the dog a sleeve? I'd like to hear opinions on this.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Im sure its been done but in my own opinion I think you get a better foundation by using a sleeve before the suit. For example you can teach full bites, the out, and targeting. Plus its easy to slip the sleeve to reward the dog. Building a good foundation and good techiques are crucial. Get this and your dog will be ready for the suit.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Is there a benefit to using Jute over another material? Would it be beneficial to use a more suit-like material sleeve to get the dog used to biting on a suit material? I bought an ultra-soft sleeve for Cujo to help increase his bite hardness and it's not made of Jute... the first time he went for a bite he bounced off it unsure of what the heck it was, but after some tries he was biting it really well and learnt to open his mouth wider to get the thicker sleeve in his mouth... I think this type of sleeve will help him transition to a bite suit... ofcourse, some dogs don't care what the hell they bite, so it might not matter. I don't like Jute though, I don't know why, I just don't, but that's what we have to work with. Maybe there's a reason they use Jute and not a different material?


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

jay lyda said:


> Im sure its been done but in my own opinion I think you get a better foundation by using a sleeve before the suit. For example you can teach full bites, the out, and targeting. Plus its easy to slip the sleeve to reward the dog. Building a good foundation and good techiques are crucial. Get this and your dog will be ready for the suit.


I will use a sleeve if I need to on a less serious dog.

I dont care about full bites so that really doesnt matter.

The out is just an obedience excercise and it doesnt matter what you use.

I dont target my dogs,I let them target naturally.

I use praise to reward my dogs.

Think of the suit as a big sleeve. :wink: :lol: 

I know I know I can hear you cringing,this is just me.If you dont like it,dont do it.

Greg


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2006)

This would be a good time to warn anyone about trying to work one of Greg's dogs on a sleeve; hope you're wearing a suit AND a sleeve :wink: .


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Hey Greg,
No, I didn't cringe at all. I know everyone has different training methods, whose to say whose right or wrong. People also want different things out of a PPD, but the main result (which I think everyone will agree) is a dog who will engage and not back down from anything. I do use suits and hidden sleeves on the dogs we train. So how do you build your dogs' confidence up to get him to go wild for the decoy in the suit? Most dogs aren't balls to the wall and go right for the fight when they are starting out, especially when first introduced to the suit for the first time and who have never been on a sleeve. Just curious to what you method is. Thanks.

As for the material of the sleeves; it really shouldn't matter. A PPD should bite any clothing or material that you are wearing. So training with different textures should be helpful.[/quote]


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

As with all things,a young pup's confidence is built from the start.I like calm serious dogs though and I dont really like a dog going wild and crazy for my own wants and needs.I used to train that way though.I guess Ive just never had a problem getting good dogs to bite like I want.If they arent cut out for the work then they would be rehomed.
My best dogs are more than willing to engage and have a definite serious and civil side.I do alot of civil agitation with the pups.If I ever do slip the sleeve as to reward the dog,I immediately do civil agitation getting the dog back on the decoy.

Greg


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

I'm going to stay out of the suit vs sleeve vs reward and so on discussion......

My only comment about the difference b/w jute vs symthetic, etc is the wear on the dog's teets. Some suit materials will wear teeth down very quickly. The synthetic fibers that are so tightly woven that they won't allow teeth to penetrate at all cause majorly quick wear. Likewise, I don't care for bite-bars when dealing with anything other than experienced decoys because they break teeth too easily. 

-Kristina


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

I think we are own different wavelengths here. I agree with you, of course you start with a puppy right away and shape him how you want him. I was thinking of a dog lets say... between one and two yrs old and you want to start him in bitework; you wouldn't just throw a decoy in a suit in front of him and expect him to know what to do right off the bat. You have to buld him up, but if he doesn't have what it takes then he can't do the work. I think our brains are just going in two different directions but its all good.

The only problem that is with jute is that I've seen teeth hang in the sleeve while the dog is trying to out. This could possibly result in loosing a K9 if the dog gets caught while fighting the decoy.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristina Senter said:


> My only comment about the difference b/w jute vs symthetic, etc is the wear on the dog's teets. -Kristina


So would Demanet be good for the dog's teeth or bad?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Teaching a dog to bite is more of an affirmation that it is ok to bite. Having said that, I've used about everything you can imagine. When I first started in bite work, we didn't have the array of equipment that is available today. In fact, we started with a length of firehose, wrapped on the arm. The fire hose was covered with either burlap or a heavy cotton fabric to give the dog's teeth something to penetrate. Introducing the bite was done with burlap or the heavy cotton, but as tug rags. The first suits we worked with were heavy burlap. As time progressed, more limber and easier to use, not to mention safer, equipment was available. Now I think the suits we use are made from something called "french linen" or something like that. We have varying degress of sleeves, for the light biters, then changing to heavier sleeves as the bite itself, gets stronger.

DFrost


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Kristina, didn't you mean teeth? :wink:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Kristina, didn't you mean teeth? :wink:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 

P.S. Jerry, I was just reading your web site. Nice.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I know her dog Gator just sired pups, maybe she was thinking that she hopes they get plenty to eat.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Oh and thanks, sorry :?


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> I know her dog Gator just sired pups, maybe she was thinking that she hopes they get plenty to eat.



   
I did'nt even catch that......but I guess that would hurt too.....LOL!
Yeah, that's it...I was thinking about the puppies..


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