# inside out prong collars... why?



## tracey schneider

A discussion on another board brought this up... but yet I havent had anyone really explain the reason for it. Why put a prong collar on with the prongs out? This doesnt make sense to me at all. One answer was to get them used to it.. but if its to get the dog used to the prong why not just put it on and not line it? Makes more sense to me since its the prongs that would be "strange" to some dogs... right? Another answer was something about a long drawn out process of building drive with the prong. I still am not getting it.

Anyone here who does this and can explain the reason... Im genuinely curious.

Thanks,
t


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## Jackie Lockard

Only time I've seen this (on purpose) was some ahole at a dog park trying to keep other dogs from "biting" her dog's neck.


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## tracey schneider

#-o lol....


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## leslie cassian

The thugs in my old neighbourhood used to do it as neck protectionfor their dogs - like the studded or spike collars that fighting/guardian dogs wear - but the low budget version. 
I have no idea if there is any training benefit to using it that way.


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## Ariel Peldunas

I worked for a trainer a few years back who would start the pet obedience dogs with the prong collar on backwards. Most of the dogs that came in had never worn anything but a flat collar or harness and pulled and lunged like idiots. Rather than slap a prong collar on them correctly and have training be an uncomfortable experience from the get-go, we'd put the prong collars on backwards to introduce the dog to the feel of something new around their neck without immediately introducing a correction. We could place the backwards prong up high on the neck and it would still have the pop/release action of the prong without the pinch, so it gave a bit more control without being a correction. Doing it this way, we were able to reduce pulling and lunging and start reward based training without the dog being corrected until we were ready to progress to that stage of training.

I haven't done that with my own dogs, but I could see the value in using it that way when I trained the dogs at that facility.


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## Jennifer Coulter

I flipped one inside out once. My trainer wanted to try my dog on a choke collar for a certain exercise, but I did not have one on me, she was wearing a pinch... so we flipped the pinch inside out. Then it is really just like a martingale and would not deliver the same type of correction.

It was just doing the best with what we had at the time, I believe.


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## tracey schneider

Jennifer that's completely understandable... Ariel... Why not use a chain/choke/fur saver?


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## Ariel Peldunas

tracey delin said:


> Jennifer that's completely understandable... Ariel... Why not use a chain/choke/fur saver?


Mostly just simplicity and because we were great at misplacing equipment. Would have worked pretty much the same except it was easier to keep the backwards prong up high on the neck.


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## Daniel Lybbert

Like Jenifer said it can just be a make shift choke when you dont have one. Sometimes a pinch is too much. Instead of digging around in a bag or truck just flip the collar inside out.


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## tracey schneider

There are folks who put it on backwards on purpose, not for lack of equipment, but its an intentional part if their training regime.... I was looking for the theory on it... It doesn't really make sense to me... If it were for adjustment/ transition why not just put it on loose and unlined? I would think that would make more sense as its the prongs, id imagine, that a dog would have issue with.... Backwards is just flat!?

The keeping it high on the neck... Ok that is a reason I can understand lol... Thanks!


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## Ariel Peldunas

tracey delin said:


> There are folks who put it on backwards on purpose, not for lack of equipment, but its an intentional part if their training regime.... I was looking for the theory on it... It doesn't really make sense to me... If it were for adjustment/ transition why not just put it on loose and unlined? I would think that would make more sense as its the prongs, id imagine, that a dog would have issue with.... Backwards is just flat!?
> 
> The keeping it high on the neck... Ok that is a reason I can understand lol... Thanks!


When you say unlined ...do you mean without a leash?

I'll just assume that's what you meant for now. 

Honestly, I don't think just having the prongs against the neck or having the collar loose so the prongs aren't as tight really means much to most dogs. I've double hooked prong collars on sensitive dogs and they reacted very little to the prongs. I believe it's the pinching action of the prongs compressing together that creates an effective correction.

I don't really think wearing the collar backwards can in any way prepare the dog for the correction from the collar worn correctly ...and I don't believe that's the idea. But I think before you're ready to correct the dog, but still want to maintain control of the dog's head in order to start teaching some behaviors, the backwards prong works pretty well. And I also think it does feel different enough from a flat collar or harness that the dog notices some difference and may be a bit more compliant ...or at least not have as much freedom to be non-compliant. I guess it's just a way to minimize switching equipment, gain some control and condition the dog to a different feel around their neck without over correcting before they are ready.

Hope that helps.


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## leslie cassian

I wonder if the prong collar on backwards is more for the handler to get used to it. 

There is so much anti prong sentiment - I know I resisted using one for a long time, and I know the perception for some people is that it is an instrument of cruelty and is the last resort for the most intractable of dogs and only the most inhumane of trainers would use them and blah, blah, blah... right up there with the dreaded 'shock collar'.


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## tracey schneider

Yes unleashed... Yeah I don't think it would mean much to most dogs either lol... My understanding on the feedback from others is that it was either used for overly sensitive dogs or as a precautionary measure just in case they are overly sensitive. So my point was, if its a transition to the pinch why not start with a looser large link and if you really wanna baby step unlined... But then again if the dog is that sensitive is it really needed at all? I say this for exactly reason you say, I can't see how it is preparing the dog for the pinch and that is definitely the idea for some which is where my interest rose... As it doesn't register with me.

Thanks for your input! I've never seen this and will probably never try it myself... But I was curious how common and the theory as to why... Your input was different. 

T


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## Jackie Lockard

If that's the intent I don't understand why not just use a martingale - save all the "well it's another piece of gear". Seems like it would be a safety issue - and after all the other things I have for my dogs what's just one more collar?


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## Tracey Hughes

I always keep a fur saver on my dogs for training, as well as any other collars I might need. A looser prong if I am going to be doing any post work as the prong encourages pulling, as well as a correction collar. Depending on the dog and the level of its training, that could mean just the fur saver is ok, but normally it is a second prong up under the ears or an e-collar. 

The flipping of the prong to me is just so odd!
At our club ALL the dogs are worked on prong collars (set on the dead ring) right from their first tug work session. Never been a problem, pups/dogs learn early what the limitations are. I think half the time, it is the owners who are soft, not the dogs! By babying a dog/training weaker you are not doing your dog any favours. Dogs need to feel and deal with stress in training so they learn to over come it.


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## Gillian Schuler

I have never heard of the use of inside out prong collars!!

The prong, especially the sharpened one (that's mine / or was) can be put on the dog loosely at first for a while if wished and the tug on it can make the dog realise it has to come to attention and you will be astounded maybe, the dog has no injuries but he will jump instantly to attention. Very similar to the e-collar effect but without the benefit of being able to be used at a distance.

I've heard of a number of handlers on here crating their dogs for hours on end which to me is far, far more injurious to introducing a dog to a prong.

Please don't start a thread on crating versus pinching but ye gods, have you not all senses in your heads???


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## Chris Jones II

tracey delin said:


> A discussion on another board brought this up... but yet I havent had anyone really explain the reason for it. Why put a prong collar on with the prongs out? This doesnt make sense to me at all. One answer was to get them used to it.. but if its to get the dog used to the prong why not just put it on and not line it? Makes more sense to me since its the prongs that would be "strange" to some dogs... right? Another answer was something about a long drawn out process of building drive with the prong. I still am not getting it.
> 
> Anyone here who does this and can explain the reason... Im genuinely curious.
> 
> Thanks,
> t


so if the dog gets into a fight the other dog will get a mouthful of prongs if it goes for the throat. same principle as a wolf collar. gives the dog an advantage.


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## Megan Berry

Isn't 'transitioning' your dog to the prong kind of defeating the purpose? I read the discussion about proper use of the prong... (solid pop vs 'nag nag nag') this seems like it would be introducing the prong so gradually it could help make the dog immune. Personally I would think this would be for a very soft dog... in which case a plain choke would be sufficient. BUT... I'm a novice, so I could be way off base!


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