# Decoying in Vibram 5 fingers (barefoot)



## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

When doing any type of athletic activity I prefer to go barefoot whenever possible. This probably came from my background in the highly effective devastating martial art known as Brazilian jiu-jitsu. When safe I like to do barefoot helper work (sleeve not suit), but when my feet need a little protection I prefer to wear a pair of these bad boys








This is the KSO model which will tear during decoy work. I use the flow model which has held up for over a year. There is a new model with a kangaroo leather upper which I imagine may be even more durable. While wearing these I can be quick and agile without so much worry about stepping on the dogs' paws. What do you guys think?


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Wow....LMFAO. Just Wow. What has this forum come to lately? Bad Jeff O. impersonators, sex, religion and politics all in one thread and NOW Barefoot decoying! 

I know a lady that runs agility courses in those with her dog, very interesting looking and she falls on her ass alot because they are so slick bottomed.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> Wow....LMFAO. Just Wow. What has this forum come to lately? Bad Jeff O. impersonators, sex, religion and politics all in one thread and NOW Barefoot decoying!
> 
> I know a lady that runs agility courses in those with her dog, very interesting looking and she falls on her ass alot because they are so slick bottomed.


The flow model has a different soul which is really great on wet surfaces. They actually grip better when wet. The only time I need cleats is in the very wet grass. I have yet to try the treck model which I suspect may actually get traction on wet grass.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Hmm..nope she falls on her ass in dry grass too when wearing those. The OB club has finally made her quit wearing them at club functions as they are a hazard to her. 

I just don't know about barefoot decoying, seems very odd to me.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

She must be wearing the classic model which doesn't even have a top strap and slides on the foot. Its really only meant for walking/running and not agility type stuff. Either that or she is gimpy and/or overweight


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> I just don't know about barefoot decoying, seems very odd to me.


Shoes can be very dangerous in combat sports. This danger/disadvantage usually comes to the person wearing the shoes. If I had to do combat with a dog in an arena or gladiator type situation I wouldn't want to be wearing shoes. If I had shoes I would take them off and use them as a weapon


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> Bad Jeff O. impersonators,


LOL Courtney....I do my best....#-o:lol::lol::lol:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

david can flat out work a dog with the best of them. I wouldn't care what he wears on the field when you can get work like that.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

*sigh*

can there be a serious post out of you?


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> *sigh*
> 
> can there be a serious post out of you?


This is serious business. I really work dogs in those shoes! Michael Ellis is known to work dogs barefoot as well!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

And safety then? 

I like to walk barefooted, but decoying barefoot? [-X

What a *** kind of shoe btw.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> And safety then?
> 
> I like to walk barefooted, but decoying barefoot? [-X
> 
> What a *** kind of shoe btw.


You do not need foot protection from the dog in most decoying situations. I already said that I don't suit up barefoot. Most of the helper work that I do is schutzhund and there is no reason for my foot to need protection from the dog. I'd also argue that barefoot helper work in schutzhund is much safer for the dog than cleats.

Even when working in a suit though. For sport work, why would your feet need anymore protection than your hands from the dog's mouth?


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

I don't work min pins or nerve bags either. No dog that I work in a suit is ever going to bite my foot. I don't work shitters


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Selena, have you ever worn those shoes? 

The only safety concern that I would have is if I were teaching dogs to bite the foot or working bull breeds aka "footbiters".


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> Selena, have you ever worn those shoes?


never saw them here , so no, haven't worn them.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I don't work shitters

Like you would have a clue one way or the other. 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

David Feliciano said:


> Shoes can be very dangerous in combat sports. This danger/disadvantage usually comes to the person wearing the shoes. If I had to do combat with a dog in an arena or gladiator type situation I wouldn't want to be wearing shoes. If I had shoes I would take them off and use them as a weapon


You give new meaning to the term “attention whore” … Dork


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I don't work shitters
> 
> Like you would have a clue one way or the other.
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



I wouldn't be so quick to judge Jeff. Seriously. He can work a dog better than you can. David is very fluid and you're um....more like a 6'4" oak plank.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Don't forget those lovely flaxen locks.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
I wouldn't be so quick to judge Jeff. Seriously. He can work a dog better than you can. David is very fluid and you're um....more like a 6'4" oak plank.

Really wasn't what I was saying, and at 46, I doubt you have seen me work a dog.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

wtf is wrong with you david? i thought this post was joke. aside from even talking about dog training, who wears shit like that. my wife just caught a glimpse and started laughing her a** off.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

David Feliciano said:


> This is serious business. I really work dogs in those shoes! Michael Ellis is known to work dogs barefoot as well!


Tactically I have no idea how bare feet is an advantage?


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

David Feliciano said:


> You do not need foot protection from the dog in most decoying situations. I already said that I don't suit up barefoot. Most of the helper work that I do is schutzhund and there is no reason for my foot to need protection from the dog. I'd also argue that barefoot helper work in schutzhund is much safer for the dog than cleats.
> 
> Even when working in a suit though. For sport work, why would your feet need anymore protection than your hands from the dog's mouth?


I would think the conditions of the field and what may be on the field would warrant some type of foot wear...Yes?


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

sam wilks said:


> wtf is wrong with you david? i thought this post was joke. aside from even talking about dog training, who wears shit like that. my wife just caught a glimpse and started laughing her a** off.


Post some pictures of your supposed wife


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> I wouldn't be so quick to judge Jeff. Seriously. He can work a dog better than you can. David is very fluid and you're um....more like a 6'4" oak plank.
> 
> Really wasn't what I was saying, and at 46, I doubt you have seen me work a dog.



I've seen David in person and anybody would be lucky to have him as a helper. I've seen his dogs too....

I have also seen this cluster ****. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6qU5ZAwimo


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> I would think the conditions of the field and what may be on the field would warrant some type of foot wear...Yes?


Mostly only really wet grass requires foot wear, specifically cleats. If you can do it wearing tennis shoes, you can do it barefoot.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> Tactically I have no idea how bare feet is an advantage?


You should do a quick google search on barefoot running


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

David Feliciano said:


> Mostly only really wet grass requires foot wear, specifically cleats. If you can do it wearing tennis shoes, you can do it barefoot.


Tennis shoes...I know if no one who wear tennis shoes???


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> Tennis shoes...I know if no one who wear tennis shoes???


sneakers, tennis shoes whatever

why don't you go jump in the caw and get some clams


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Attention whoring is usually reserved for chicks but every once in a while a guy gets caught up in it. It usually gets worse when alcohol is added. I would think that even your worse attention whore would need to be pretty drunk to post 
“This probably came from my background in the highly effective devastating martial art known as Brazilian jiu-jitsu.” 
No one, no one, no one can take a statement like this seriously, ever. Had to be drunk or hopefully just joking


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> Attention whoring is usually reserved for chicks but every once in a while a guy gets caught up in it. It usually gets worse when alcohol is added. I would think that even your worse attention whore would need to be pretty drunk to post
> “This probably came from my background in the highly effective devastating martial art known as Brazilian jiu-jitsu.”
> No one, no one, no one can take a statement like this seriously, ever. Had to be drunk or hopefully just joking


*I like my 1911 versus the hand to hand...seems liek Dave likes hands on touchy feely shit!*


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> *...seems liek Dave likes hands on touchy feely shit!*


With condoms on his feet


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> Tactically I have no idea how bare feet is an advantage?



Ask Elmar Mannes....


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

That’s not a person that’s a ghost. 
One time I steeped in dog shit bare foot… I gagged like a ***


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Have no idea about the shoes, I think those little toes would drive me nuts. But I have met quite a few decoys/helpers who work dogs barefoot.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

David Feliciano said:


> If I had to do combat with a dog in an arena or gladiator type situation I wouldn't want to be wearing shoes. If I had shoes I would take them off and use them as a weapon



Seriously, you sit around and think about stuff like this!


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Shane Woodlief said:


> Seriously, you sit around and think about stuff like this!


I think about stuff like that when I'm not thinking about the different types of animals a pit bull could take on. Pit bull vs. honey badger has always intrigued me.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Originally Posted by *David Feliciano*  
_If I had to do combat with a dog in an arena or gladiator type situation I wouldn't want to be wearing shoes. If I had shoes I would take them off and use them as a weapon_



Shane Woodlief said:


> Seriously, you sit around and think about stuff like this!


 
Maybe he is 12 years old… you never no ?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I have also seen this cluster ****. 

Yes, of course that was the finished product. She got her nara ring 3 the other day at 8 months.

I guess you cur easily. Did you forget how frozen in fear you were for your peanut butter remark last week ?

Oh sure, the thread got deleted, but it was still there. I guess you have no idea how many bridges can be burned. Stick with the buddy ****er, you should be just fine.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Is Ash for Sale?*



Chris Michalek said:


> I have also seen this cluster ****.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6qU5ZAwimo


Carol,

I'll give you $11K for him


err no I mean 11 hundred 





err......no a hunnnard dollars and fitty cents


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Originally Posted by *David Feliciano*
> _If I had to do combat with a dog in an arena or gladiator type situation I wouldn't want to be wearing shoes. If I had shoes I would take them off and use them as a weapon_
> 
> 
> ...


I believe what you meant to say was, "you never know". No?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Thomas, I found a quarter on the ground. Trade you for that dog of yours even steven.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Thomas, I found a quarter on the ground. Trade you for that dog of yours even steven.



Which one?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

David Feliciano said:


> I believe what you meant to say was, "you never know". No?


Right ! you might be 12 you never* know*


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The new Dobe. It is a SHINY quarter. SHINY ! !


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The new Dobe. It is a SHINY quarter. SHINY ! !



I have a new female as of Sunday but I'm guessing you're talking about the male Flannchadh?
Flann has a BH 
I'll bet he gets a SchH II before Ash gets a Brevet


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You have a new dog ? Nice.

Sch 2 before Ash gets a brevet. Well, considering a brevet is probably the same as a 2......... maybe. I still have that shiny quarter. Carol can get a brevet on her dog by the spring.

Why not ? I will hold onto the shiny quarter just in case.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You have a new dog ? Nice.
> 
> Sch 2 before Ash gets a brevet. Well, considering a brevet is probably the same as a 2......... maybe. I still have that shiny quarter. Carol can get a brevet on her dog by the spring.
> 
> Why not ? I will hold onto the shiny quarter just in case.


A brevet the same as a two? LMFAO coming from the guy who NEVER PUT A SCHUTZHUND TITLE ON A DOG


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You have a new dog ? Nice.
> 
> Sch 2 before Ash gets a brevet. Well, considering a brevet is probably the same as a 2......... maybe. I still have that shiny quarter. Carol can get a brevet on her dog by the spring.
> 
> Why not ? I will hold onto the shiny quarter just in case.



Jeff,

The new girl is 8 months old. How old is Ash?
I might could do a Brevet in the Spring too


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If you put on shoes, you would know the truth. Too bad you are just a back stabber. 

With all the backtie work, and as little movement is possible with all the whipping going on, I can see how you wouldn't need shoes.

However, your little tirade on bare feet vs cleats shows how little you know about wet grass.

From what I hear, the number of people that will let you work a dog is very, very very small.

I can only imagine the nightmare of you ****ing up someones dog, and having to listen to you explain how it really wasn't your fault.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> With all the backtie work, and as little movement is possible with all the whipping going on, I can see how you wouldn't need shoes.
> 
> However, your little tirade on bare feet vs cleats shows how little you know about wet grass.
> 
> From what I hear, the number of people that will let you work a dog is very, very very small.


I've used a whip maybe three times this year. The very very very small number of dogs that I work in protection all work their asses off.

People fear what they don't understand


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## Tanya Beka (Aug 12, 2008)

Shane Woodlief said:


> Seriously, you sit around and think about stuff like this!


AT least he is THINKING, unlike some people on this forum... :-\"


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I've used a whip maybe three times this year

Since you are probably only allowed to work one dog, I don't doubt that.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

whips are for lazy trainers, BDSM and shitters.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I've used a whip maybe three times this year
> 
> Since you are probably only allowed to work one dog, I don't doubt that.


I worked 2 malinois, 2 dobies, and a GSD yesterday. That's be a full house at one of your "seminars"


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How many times did your lazy ass ever track that dog ?? Of course he looks better, you never worked him. 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

The best part was watching you throw a fit as if the dog was messing up.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I worked 2 malinois, 2 dobies, and a GSD yesterday. That's be a full house at one of your "seminars"

Sure you did. Down in your moms basement, you line up your toys and run back and forth imagining you are working a puppy line. Soooooo fancy !

We had 8 dogs at this seminar. We also had a great time. How many toys do you line up in your moms basement ?? 

I can hear your mom screaming in that crappy accent for you to stop making all that noise. Your dog is terrified in it's corner where you have it chained, all "gangsta". 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHA


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How many times did your lazy ass ever track that dog ?? Of course he looks better, you never worked him.
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
> 
> The best part was watching you throw a fit as if the dog was messing up.



And how many times have you tracked your dog? NEVER. But like any great keyboard trainer, you don't know the full story. 

You still didn't explain your **** all work in the Ash's jumping vid. Many of us are confused because we couldn't tell if you were trying to **** up carols dog or if you just enjoy being a **** up... 

At least I'm showing success, you've showed what you are. How do you like dem apples? ;-)


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I have a serious question Jeff. I read just about everything you write, you clearly know some stuff so why do you choose to work at a gas station juxtaposed to being a professional dog trainer? Surely you would find more satisfaction in training dogs for a living rather than slaving at a minimum wage job. Seriously instead of "helping" us with your grand knowledge why not use it to make money? What's up with that?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I am sorry, you are showing what ??

I guess if you just make up your own definition for success, that would count for something. You didn't do the ****ing work. How hard is that to figure out ??

Oooooo, LOOK ! ! ! My dog is TRACKING ! ! ! ! 

Big surprise.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

As an aside from the other asides . . . The Vibram 5 Finger shoes definitely have their following with workout gurus and some of the Martial Arts & CrossFit crowd. On some level, I understand it, they're supposedly very comfortable and let your feet conform to the ground like being barefoot while obviously providing protection from sharp objects and all. On the other hand, they don't offer arch support and some seem to be lacking in the tread (others apparently don't). Their advocates unabashedly love them.

My only criticisms are:

1) They're ugly as sin.

2) They seem to lack arch support (that's the criticism for using them in a weight lifting setting).

3) I thought they were thin/sock-like on the top (which might be a slight concern as far as getting stepped on, but probably not all that much if you can catch dogs barefoot).

4) Arguably lacking in as wide/solid a footprint and ankle support; probably not a huge concern, but knowing me, I'd roll an ankle.

5) I don't buy the anti-shoe rationale. But I also don't use Vibrams and the true believers are very adamant they rule.

6) They're ugly as sin.

Anyway, as far as the actual topic, and the shoes, they might work just fine for a lot of things and are widely reported as much more functional and effective than they look.

-Cheers


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Barefoot? Must be a California thing, Ellis and David. Is that other guy From India? they don't own shoes


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am sorry, you are showing what ??
> 
> I guess if you just make up your own definition for success, that would count for something. You didn't do the ****ing work. How hard is that to figure out ??
> 
> ...



You're right. I should have said Progress. 

But you, let's have another look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6qU5ZAwimo

Are you creating progress or assuring a ****ed up dog as you progress?


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAAHHAHAHAHA


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> Selena, have you ever worn those shoes?
> 
> The only safety concern that I would have is if I were teaching dogs to bite the foot or working *bull breeds aka "footbiters".*


With all due respect, @#$% off. 

-Cheers


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> whips are for lazy trainers, BDSM and shitters.


Chris,

I find the whip to be a DEVASTING tool in a decoys arsenal. Especially if the dog attempts to "go guard" on him


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Chris,
> 
> I find the whip to be a DEVASTING tool in a decoys arsenal. Especially if the dog attempts to "go guard" on him


"pull guard" my friend


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Barefoot? Must be a California thing, Ellis and David. Is that other guy From India? they don't own shoes



Don't forget Elmar. That dude is a badass at 70. He don't no shoes to stomp on a dog. I heard a story where one dog bit him and he picked that dog up by the head and chuncked it 20 yrds in his barefeet.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

David Feliciano said:


> "pull guard" my friend



Thanks for the correction. I remembered you were talking about pulling something. I forgot it was "guard". Is that a euphemism for something else?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Oooooo, post the video again Chris. The funny thing is you are a follower. Thats all. I guess you never thought to ask if she is still doing that. But then again, you are probably all giddy from talking shit with your new friend that you were bashing the other day.

Fickle mikalik. That should be your bands new name.

So there you are, you actually tracked your dog a couple of days in a row. That is what it looks like too. Day three.

Maybe I will make a video of Soda on day one in tracking. Maybe Esko. Funny thing, it is gonna look a LOT like your video. Didn't do the work, tried to make it look like it was the dog. HA HA


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

The dog could pull off an Americana,anacanda choke, slip a triangle choke, kamura, or they real ones would go straight for the ground and pound. David who did you train bjj under?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Timothy Stacy said:


> David who did you train bjj under?



Timothy

Everyone knows what BJ stands for, but I can't figure out what the second J is for ;-)


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> Don't forget Elmar. That dude is a badass at 70. He don't no shoes to stomp on a dog. I heard a story where one dog bit him and he picked that dog up by the head and chuncked it 20 yrds in his barefeet.


That's the Indian guy? They don't own shoes


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Oooooo, post the video again Chris. The funny thing is you are a follower. Thats all. I guess you never thought to ask if she is still doing that. But then again, you are probably all giddy from talking shit with your new friend that you were bashing the other day.
> 
> Fickle mikalik. That should be your bands new name.
> 
> ...



but you still work at a gas station right?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAAHHAHAHAHA

This is the deal on David, I didn't know him before. I thought he was goofy and weird. Then I met him and know he's goofy and weirder than I thought but I also know he isn't full of shit like you. David is straight up good people and if you let him help you, maybe you'd accomplish something. The tides have turned my friend. 

So yeah, I'm a follower, I follow and learn from people who know more than me. How has being a blind leader helped you get a dog trained?


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

In dog combat is it easier for a dog to get one in a heel hook with shoes on?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That reminds me of a video Tim, ever see the Rott wrestling vid where the guy humps his dogs head ??

Maybe you can find a link, I am stumped.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> In dog combat is it easier for a dog to get one in a heel hook with shoes on?


What kind of shoes? High heels?


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Timothy Stacy said:


> David who did you train bjj under?


I'll take a guess, several other detainee's ??



Thomas Barriano said:


> Timothy
> 
> Everyone knows what BJ stands for, but I can't figure out what the second J is for ;-)


The last J stands for Juxstaposition..the favored position for this training.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: but you still work at a gas station right?

No, but thanks for your concern. I liked that job. Notice the obvious lack of self hatred. You will get yours under control one of these days.

I guess as far as how the dog will do, you will just have to wait. I mean, after the first session, obviously, there is no turning back, no WAY the dog would ever figure out not to touch the jump. Not according to what you are saying, right ??


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: but you still work at a gas station right?
> 
> No, but thanks for your concern. I liked that job. Notice the obvious lack of self hatred. You will get yours under control one of these days.
> 
> I guess as far as how the dog will do, you will just have to wait. I mean, after the first session, obviously, there is no turning back, no WAY the dog would ever figure out not to touch the jump. Not according to what you are saying, right ??



Now were talking... 

Of course the dog will learn but you're creating extra work for yourself. If you have any real knowledge at all, and I know you do, then you have to admit I and others are correct. The biggest training mistake is training a mistake, that's dog training 101!

The hurdle isn't all that's wrong with the vid.

Anyway, feel happy that I will still follow you. I do appreciate the laughter you bring everyday even if it is at my expense. 

Keep talking shit about David F all you want... the only thing you will accomplish is making yourself look really stupid to those that know him. David is the real deal. Lighting quick and can bring pressure that can run most dogs but knows how to be a limp noodle the second before that would happen. Feliciano knows his shit and instantly gained my respect. Chris Smith too. These guys have put the the time in to get things right and I acquired nothing but good times and knowledge from both of them.

Chris spent more than nine hours a day with me and if you can believe it, all he wanted was a ****ing burrito. Of course I refused to buy him one because his time and work wasn't worth a burrito.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

sam wilks said:


> wtf is wrong with you david? i thought this post was joke. aside from even talking about dog training, who wears shit like that. my wife just caught a glimpse and started laughing her a** off.


you want to see what my gf thinks of em...look that the other post..lol I tend to agree with her...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
Of course the dog will learn but you're creating extra work for yourself. If you have any real knowledge at all, and I know you do, then you have to admit I and others are correct.

No, not really. The dog is......... wait for it............. already jumping without touching. WHEW ! ! ! That was SOOOOOOO much extra work. Of course you already know how to teach a dog to jump, I have seen it so many times.. oh wait, that wasn't you.

Quote: The hurdle isn't all that's wrong with the vid.

Oh, do tell.

Quote: David is the real deal. Lighting quick and can bring pressure that can run most dogs

Oh sure, and of course you saw that with all your experience in dog training. Then again, the real problem is you saw your dog about to run. Probably should go with a different breeder next time, or maybe less defense.

Quote: Chris spent more than nine hours a day with me and if you can believe it, all he wanted was a ****ing burrito.

Well, thats it, call the Pope.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Good lord those are some ugly-ass shoes! I don't think I understand the concept though. If you want to run around barefoot but don't want to step on stuff, flip-flops work too, and are way less hideous. 

If you ever watched Married with Children, anyone remember Al's "God's shoes" that never sold? They looked strikingly like these.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> Of course the dog will learn but you're creating extra work for yourself. If you have any real knowledge at all, and I know you do, then you have to admit I and others are correct.
> 
> No, not really. The dog is......... wait for it............. already jumping without touching. WHEW ! ! ! That was SOOOOOOO much extra work. Of course you already know how to teach a dog to jump, I have seen it so many times.. oh wait, that wasn't you.



OK oh great master of teaching dogs to jump shit. Explain this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Rm_Yi9gZA


Good job on this one. Three times a charm, you truly can get a dog to get his ass over stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWKmnTKNDfg


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You mean explain why Buko was out competing at Mondio ring three, and you are at home ****ing up tracking, with no titles, and a world class club ??

I guess maybe you should be out there working a little harder.

As far as the video, only God and Buko knows why he does things. Maybe one day you will have a dog that has some guts to him, and does whatever he wants. Me, I just go along for the ride.

I do love when new people think they have a clue. I could beat this dog with a lead pipe, and he will still do what he wants, which was to play with the sand bag that was off to the side.

Will he do that in training ? Yep. But like I said, what is the point of beating him senseless when he is just going to do it anyway ?? LOL

I never had a problem with him jumping the broad jump until right before the nationals. Even built a jump out in Ca so we could work on it there. He is gonna do what he is gonna do. He ain't so pussy like some dogs that a beating is gonna make him behave. I guess you forgot to add that into the equation. 

Hell, your dog got all pussed out with you just walking behind him. I am usually wondering if I am gonna get bit when I act like you were acting.

Maybe some day you might get a clue and see that.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Missed the pallisade video. I guess you didn't see the other dogs go splat on it. 

But then again, why would a pallisade be slick like that ? The plans call for rough cut. That one was slick.

I learned that I need to point that stuff out during the dog in white.

However, from what I saw of your dog, he would quit. Never saw that in my dog now did you ?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You mean explain why Buko was out competing at Mondio ring three, and you are at home ****ing up tracking, with no titles, and a world class club ??


no I mean why you can't teach a dog to jump shit correctly the first time.

don't skirt the issue.

I have young dogs but when they are ready, they aren't going to look silly.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> However, from what I saw of your dog, he would quit. Never saw that in my dog now did you ?



Your dog could be run by anybody don't be dumb.

Ok, I'm officially sick of this jesting back and forth. I still think you're funny as hell and I appreciate what you bring to this board.

Done


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcZEJ4K4a-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8bSbno7gxw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFHr9MRe_9M

I guess maybe you need some help now that your boy is gone.

Watch these, and wonder what your dog would do, since you ain't trialing anytime soon.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcZEJ4K4a-c
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8bSbno7gxw
> 
> ...


Jeff, there is no doubt Buko is a nice dog. We have what we have. My dog is much more suitable for sch and possibly french ring than mondio. He is what he is, I'm still going to train him, just like you're going to train your dog.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

WTF Band camp aghain for David Feliciano. This is bull shit why


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Really??? This board has gone down the shitter. Too many ego's and not enough room. Everyone has their strong points as a trainer and their weak spots. Those that can dmit their weak spots are the type of trainers I want to be training with. It is hilarious to me that all people here want to do anymore is bash other's dogs and training style yet they themselves are having just as bad or worse of a time than those they are bashing. I personally want to train with trainers that have experience more than just a couple years. I've been doing this 6 years and still consider myself a newb. I started with a nervy APBT who taught me a ton, then I got a GSD that deserved a better handler/trainer than I am. I train him anyway. He has some problems but they aren't the dog, they are the handler. I think more people need to be honest with themselves and realize that most traning problems come from the handler. I'm by no means a Jeff fan but he is honest and fair and I'd let him work my dog anyday. In fact I'm hoping to get to one of his seminars sometime even though I don't do mondio. I would like to see some video of david f. working a dog. Chris- how long have you been in this sport? In my opinion if it is less than 10 years you're still a newbie. 

This thread was so pointless and then just became a bash on other people's dogs. I use to come here to learn. Now I come to laugh and sake my head. Leave your egos at the login and talk dogs without bashing other people's dogs.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Come on this can't be for real .


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Yet, somehow I cannot help but be amused by the things men say to each other, especially here. But here's my meager contribution to nothing good ... would someone tell me about this white dog? What is this dog in white?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The shoes ?? I think they are for sale.

As far as Fellatio, I think he is a buddy ****er and a tool. I come from a world that doesn't find him or his shit funny Courtney. I know most of you younger people have been TAUGHT to roll over and show your belly. I see people do it to kids all the time. 

As far as Chris goes, if he wants to go train with the buddy ****er, or try and tell me he can tell what the end result is going to be, that is fine. I encourage people to think. However, the sad part is that I trained my dog exactly the "correct" way he is talking about.

I never trained the jump like that until Buko. I don't like the way it worked, so I went back to my old way, which I know works. Esko has been jumping full height on the pallasade, and has jumped full height on the hurdle, and that was a few months ago. 

It isn't an ego thing, no matter what you think. People challenge you, and you respond. Maybe they learn something, maybe they don't. Most cur out and tell me how I don't know shit. Never exactly, why I don't, they just try and make themselves look better by telling me these things.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Yet, somehow I cannot help but be amused by the things men say to each other, especially here. But here's my meager contribution to nothing good ... would someone tell me about this white dog? What is this dog in white?


dog in white= dog that demonstrates the routines, not competing...


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

To the subject at hand.

David really does work dogs in those shoes. People at the club called them monkey shoes.

I don't understand why he was banned for talking about decoying in shoes like that especially when top notch trainers like Michael Ellis and Elmar Mannes train barefoot.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Believe me Jeff, I'll defend myself to the end if I'm brought a fight. I understand that perfectly. Wasn't neccessarily talking about your ego but in general. From David F.s posts on here I wouldn't let him work my dog. He doesn't demonstrate any knowledge about anything but bullshit. Another Lee if you ask me. 

I trained the jump fairly close to how it was done in the vid of Ash, my dog doesn't hit the top anymore either. 

Us younger newbies could greatly benefit from listening to the "old timers" talk and asking questions. Also listening to whose who and who is associated with more negative drama stuff compared to who is associated with good things. I've also learned that most good trainers are jerks to a point cause they get tired of bs and crap. But stick with them and you'll show them how dedicated you are and that you want to learn. Proving yourself in these sports is half the battle of getting good help IMHO. There is a difference between kissing ass and proving yourself.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> dog in white= dog that demonstrates the routines, not competing...


Joby, you probably don't know this but you are one of my favorite participants on this board. Thanks for making the effort to respond to my feeble attempt at salvaging this Twilight Zone of a thread that has (not surprisingly) turned into a noose. So, I guess this might be like what a dummy dog is to SchH? If so, why on earth is it called that?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Joby, you probably don't know this but you are one of my favorite participants on this board. Thanks for making the effort to respond to my feeble attempt at salvaging this Twilight Zone of a thread that has (not surprisingly) turned into a noose. So, I guess this might be like what a dummy dog is to SchH? If so, why on earth is it called that?


Thanks Angie...but you must know I mislead you the dog is white is too show the order of the excerices..and the decoy work not the "routines"..sorry for leading you so far astray can you forgive my drunken miswording ? I promise never to drink again if you do LOL

I have no clue why it is called that, maybe Jeff O. the ringmaster can tell you...if he feels like it, or isn't off his meds again...


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Uh no worries Freddy . I suppose that it probably didn't occur to you or Jeff that I knew what it was and was simply trying to do something productive for a thread that became bizarre and useless pretty quickly. What a waste... I'm not sure what's more amusing you bombed and calling people names that belong to someone else or Jeff not answering questions but instead criticizing the responses offered. Part of the problem is what I expect the latter is.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> To the subject at hand.
> 
> David really does work dogs in those shoes. People at the club called them monkey shoes.
> 
> I don't understand why he was banned for talking about decoying in shoes like that especially when top notch trainers like Michael Ellis and Elmar Mannes train barefoot.


Elmar Mannes may have worked a dog once or twice barefooted. On the other hand he's wearing a leather apron, too which says it all.

He's an extremely intelligent chap who can read dogs very well. I'm sure he usually wears shoes, like all our other decoys, namely mostly football shoes with studs. At least he did when he was at our club.

He also watched one of the dogs tracking, a simple U-form, with the dog, nose to the ground all the way. He said "that dog's not tracking, he's just following the routine U-form, as he knows it.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Uh no worries Freddy . I suppose that it probably didn't occur to you or Jeff that I knew what it was and was simply trying to do something productive for a thread that became bizarre and useless pretty quickly. What a waste... I'm not sure what's more amusing you bombed and calling people names that belong to someone else or Jeff not answering questions but instead criticizing the responses offered. Part of the problem is what I expect the latter is.


lol
now THAT IS FUNNY...
oops... I know an Angie Stark....LOL slipped right out....god I AM STUPID...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I suppose that it probably didn't occur to you or Jeff that I knew what it was and was simply trying to do something productive for a thread that became bizarre and useless pretty quickly.

yet here you are reading every tiny line of it. I guess it never occurs to you how much you feed off of this shit.


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