# SV Bundessiegerzuchtschau, Germany, 2009



## Rachel Schumacher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10-bn34-2fE&feature=player_embedded

That's awful ... I don't get the point why these "colorful" dogs have to be put through something they are clearly not able to do.


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## Erik Berg

Poor doggies


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## mike suttle

WTF??????
The sad thing is that these dogs will be bred to. I feel bad for the dogs, but at an event like this the decoys should have been WAY more powerful and ran the dogs back to the parking lot. That way maybe people would realize they should not be bred to.
This is the kind of shit that is destroying working dogs. You even see it with SchH trials too (decoy's trying hard to keep the dog on the sleeve) really, really sad.
Maybe with the titles these dogs have they will be sold the USA and then resold as "excecutive security dogs" LOL


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## Christopher Jones

Good gawd  And these dogs also have SchH3 titles and will no doubt all be pronounced in C. And people wonder why I think SchH has some major problems?????


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## Rachel Schumacher

Supposedly the decoys get $$$.
Nope these dogs don't have SCHIII titles it's all about show lines (so I believe as I am absolutely not familiar with showing dogs and their lines). 
Sadly enough the dogs are breeding stock... 
Thank goodness that Jeff shared a vid with working GSD today. We do have working line GSDs in Europe that fail in shows


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## Stephanie O'Brien

WOW...I just lost my breakfast.

fluffy cripples that dont work and cant handle ANY pressure, when is it going to stop?


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## Anne Jones

Should be called a 'lack of courage' test. And since when do the get 'do overs' at trials??!!! Very sad for these dogs. Why do they even BOTHER to do these trials?!!! Clearly, none of these dogs are even close to being able to to this work. I feel sorry for the decoy trying to make these dogs look 'good' by not touching them with the stick & trying to keep the dogs on the sleeve. The worse part is that these dogs are bred & sold with titles that they clearly never earned. There is a sucker born every minute waiting in the US to buy these dogs & their pups for PPDs. I know 2 people that make a nice living selling dogs like this to 'deep pocketed' people. I HATE It ! I hope that these buyers never need more than a dog that barks. (& have a gun to back up their dog)


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## mike suttle

Anne Jones said:


> Should be called a 'lack of courage' test. And since when do the get 'do overs' at trials??!!! Very sad for these dogs. Why do they even BOTHER to do these trials?!!! Clearly, none of these dogs are even close to being able to to this work. I feel sorry for the decoy trying to make these dogs look 'good' by not touching them with the stick & trying to keep the dogs on the sleeve. The worse part is that these dogs are bred & sold with titles that they clearly never earned. There is a sucker born every minute waiting in the US to buy these dogs & their pups for PPDs. I know 2 people that make a nice living selling dogs like this to 'deep pocketed' people. I HATE It ! I hope that these buyers never need more than a dog that barks. (& have a gun to back up their dog)


I agree with everything here except feeling sorry for the deocys.......I think the decoys should not hold back at a trial of any kind. Trial day is a testing day. I say run em if ya can and leave no doubt in everyone's eyes that the dogs are not worthy of earning a title or being bred to!


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## xxxxxxxxKarina Scuckyte

The decoy, which didn't prsent the sleeve and didn't help the dog was quite quickly disqualified. It's a shame to see, that the dog was re-tested and normally passed.
And what comes to the Sieger Vegas, even show people talk, that he has big problems with bitework and passes them to his progeny. And these same people breed to him.


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## Anne Jones

Mike I agree that the decoys should be ALLOWED to run these dogs off, but it is evident that they are trying to restrain from doing so. (It seems as though the decoy practically pushed the sleeve in one of the dogs mouth when he missed the bite & started to shy away.) I am assuming that it is by instruction, from the powers that be, to do so. But I could be very wrong. If they were to run these dogs back to the parking lot, which would be pretty easy to do with very little effort,....do you really think that it would be enough to stop them from breeding these dogs. I somehow doubt it. It is evident enough, as the tests exist, that these dogs should not pass on their genes, at least not for bite sport reasons. Confirmation is equally horrible, as documented by the prolifferation of HD in these dogs. But that is a whole other issue.


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## Christopher Jones

Rachel Schumacher said:


> Nope these dogs don't have SCHIII titles it's all about show lines (so I believe as I am absolutely not familiar with showing dogs and their lines).


 ALL show GSD's have to have SchH I as a minimum to be bred from, and all Males will have SchH 3.


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## Anne Jones

What is the purpose of MEANINGLESS titles?


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## Kyle Sprag

Anne Jones said:


> What is the purpose of MEANINGLESS titles?


 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Anne Jones

Beauty is as beauty does! I guess if you are interested in a' no-go showboat' ! Then that's you dog! That & you have 'deep pockets' to throw away lots of the green stuff on a #&%TTER with HD.


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## Jason Moore

Thats the one thing I deffinatly don't want is a so called undeserved title. If my pups won't do it then they just won't do it. If they fail I will try again a few times but deff don't want an undeserved title. If I get to title one I want something I can be proud of on the field not on a piece of paper.


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## Bob Scott

I watched the GSDCA SV Nats here a couple of yrs ago. The decoys were doing no more then what you saw in this video and the people outside the ring were complaining that the decoys were putting to much pressure on the dogs. 
The show line people know what they have. It's called money!
Unfortunately, this is what the average person seeks out when looking for a GSD. These and the #-o](*,)](*,) :-& American show line dogs.


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## Kristina Senter

Pitiful. Poor dogs.

Now...to play the devil's advocate....
I am guessing that these were the worst from the entire event. If someone with better German than I can catch the catalogue numbers, I doubt they are in order. 
....Like we've NEVER seen a workingline dog run, right? I've not been to too many schutzhund trials (ironically, i have been to more Koers than actualy SchH trials) and I've still managed to see my fair share of workingline GSDs and Mals ...Schutzhund, PSA, FR and KNPV "titled" dogs that were every bit as worthless. 
Likewise, I've actually seen a few quite nice SV GSDs. I have one here now that as a free pet-reject for being too drivey, is nicer than a lot of workingline dogs I've paid a lot of money for. Hes not the first. Structually, they're destroyed...no argument, no excuses. Physically, there is no comparison..but there ARE some showline GSDs out there with some nice working drive and strength. Even the very nicest of them won't be in the same league as a strong workingline dog but, when you get around to the reality of what many people really have...I've had showline dogs that could shame a lot of workingline dogs.


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## Bob Scott

Of course there are working line dogs that have been ran. The problem I saw at the 2 SV Nat shows I saw was out of 160 or so dog there were only 5-6 that I would have taken home.


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## milder batmusen

I think it is very very sad for the breed I dont think of the dogs only but the hole breed what a pitty none of these dogs are to blame 

but only the one in back of the leash the people that has forgotten what the GSD in the old days where breed to work not do shows 

very sad


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## Marina Schmidt

Bundessiegerzuchtschau, if Max v. Stephanitz saw this he would turn over in his grave. Showline's the main reason for switching from SV to RSV2000.


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## Gillian Schuler

Queen Anne is dead - this is nothing other than flogging a dead horse. Just don't buy Hochzuchthunde- don't moan about it - if you don't trust the GSD, then buy another breed but for firggin's sake stop bringing these nutters onto the forum.

Heartfelt thanks!!


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## Gillian Schuler

Too late to edit!!

After all, it's a "working dog forum" not who is the "prettiest in the land" forum, oder?? Do me a favour, and leave these crippled beauties where they were bred.

Thank you.


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## Jehane Michael Le Grange

Rachel Schumacher said:


> Supposedly the decoys get $$$.
> Nope these dogs don't have SCHIII titles it's all about show lines (so I believe as I am absolutely not familiar with showing dogs and their lines).


These dogs do in fact have SchH3...if the dog doesn't have the highest possible working title it will not be competitive in the ring under the judge...although it is a breed show, the dogs still need to have 'working titles' even though I have serious doubts about the validity of the titles that alot of the show dogs claim...


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## maggie fraser

Gillian Schuler said:


> Too late to edit!!
> 
> After all, it's a "working dog forum" not who is the "prettiest in the land" forum, oder?? Do me a favour, and leave these crippled beauties where they were bred.
> 
> Thank you.


Sorry to go a bit off topic....

Gillian, do you know from where or what lines the Zurich state police source their dogs?

Agree with the others, the dogs in that video looked terrible.


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## Gillian Schuler

Maggie, have started a new thread under Police/Military K9.

Cheers
Gill


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## Barrie Kirkland

just seen this thread.... man the foo foo folk have alot to answer

very poor standard of dogs and handler. At 0520 why didnt the helper chase the dog , he should have & the judge should have directed him to reattack the dog 

looks fixed & def its about titles , money & breeding


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