# Very happy with my dog’s voraus.



## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Finally got the type of go out I have wanted for years!!

From this past weekend’s Regional IPO Championships held at the Scarborough Club in Ontario. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Siq0iVhBJ-U


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

super...that looked great..

thanks for sharing


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

Very Nice!!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks for sharing. Can you share how you like to train it?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i think the voraus is the hardest exercise to train. so any training tips would be welcome! Apache did GREAT!


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Thanks! A big part of getting a nice voraus is having the dog cap his drive and actually building drive in the trial as the exercises go from the heeling to the motions and finally the dumbbells. You could see in the full OB video that by the time Apache got to the retrieves he could barely contain himself (and lost me points with no sits/not holding them!) so when I did give him the go out command he just “exploded”. 

We teach the down away from the go out and rarely put them together, this was maybe the 10th time I ever downed him on a go out. So the speed is there as the dog believes he is running out for his reward. I use tugs at the end of the field on the ground. 

That’s it. No real secret other then the dog has to really have the drive for whatever reward is at the end of his go out. And rarely down them along with a send. But work on that down so it is fast and reliable anytime/anywhere you give the command.

Honestly, he never did a go out that well before..it just came together for me when it counted. Too bad tracking didn’t..:twisted:


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## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

Very nice!
Thanks for sharing.


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

That was fantastic!


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

My PSD does the send away as well. I have sent him out up to 100 yards. I use a giant kong for my reward.


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## Ralph Tough (Jun 3, 2012)

Very Nice Thanks for sharing.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Good job.


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

this is the full obedience routine.

Lost a few points but overall, with this dogs drive and hardness we were happy with it


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Tracey, I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread, but I am trying to decide which way I'd like to teach it: either with a toy already on the field to go to or to go to a target (like the top of a yogurt lid flat on the ground) each placed further and further back. Seems like the first method would have a lot of speed going out, but perhaps if the dog cannot see it on a field they aren't used to on trial day, they may be confused. Seems like the second may a little more reliable, but also a little slower and perhaps less direct? I started a little bit with the target method and my dog seemed to cast back and forth a little looking for the target and not as straight as I'd like. I'd like anybody's thoughts on the pros and cons of each method, or thoughts on other methods would be great too.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Well done!
One of the biggest mistakes nybees (and some experienced people) do is to put the down in to many send outs. The dog anticipates and starts slowing down.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Tracey Hughes said:


> Thanks! A big part of getting a nice voraus is having the dog cap his drive and actually building drive in the trial as the exercises go from the heeling to the motions and finally the dumbbells. You could see in the full OB video that by the time Apache got to the retrieves he could barely contain himself (and lost me points with no sits/not holding them!) so when I did give him the go out command he just “exploded”.


HI Tracey

I don't get it. You have a beautiful send out but there is less control in the retrieves because he's getting more amped up all the way up to them. The send out is worth 10 points the
retrieves 40. My opinion: a little less explosion on the send out and a little more capping on the retrieves will give you a lot more points?


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Lost 9 pts total for the retrieves. Failing to go over both ways (did go over coming back) over the hurdle (due to bad throw), -5 pts. Should of asked for a re-throw but bad trial nerves so I wasn't thinking clearly. The sloppy basic position during the retrieves -2 pts & -2 pts for some chewing on retrieve. Failing to do "out of motion sit" -5 pts. Recall from out of motion down -1 pts (judge like that the dog found the finished position all on his own, so the judge didn't hit us too hard). 

Thus the 85 pts.

This dog has had extensive drive capping exercises in retrieving exercises; just ran out of time to secure the sit during the retrieves further (for Regional Event). He's a handful  however we made up for it in the protection phase .


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

HI Tracey

It's all a balancing act 
Do you have any video of his protection? That's the important part ;-)


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Very nice all around Tracey. You have really made strides fast and I love your excitement for training now. 

I train it the exact same way, great success with my first dog... my dog now... complete failure... having to rethink my approach. Saw it once in training right before trial... complete disregard for the down.. blowing through the collar insistent on finding the tug/ ball ... soon after trial day... no down. I read something online that paired the verbal down with meaning no toy, down and you get it from me, and no down command meaning toy is there find it... we will see.

t


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwbvP-ePYCo
www.youtube.com



Considering his last Regionals we were DQd for no out after the courage test and I had very little control throughout, I am happy with him getting a 92 this time.


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Tracey, 

I reward that same way with my dogs. If there is nothing out at the end of the field I down them and reward from me. I usually release them as I am walking up with the toy but sometimes train it like trial day.

I am excited about trialing my bulldog girl this October, she is doing all the exercises for trial now minus the side and back transports. I jumped her full height last night for the first time and she caught her foot on the jump and face planted. She still has the grass stains on her ear. But the second time over, she cleared it


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

OK I thought you said you never down them until trial day but down elsewhere with distractions.... good I am going to try it this way and see if that works.... I know you an apache had some similar issues as I do so a good sign 


Great news about Miss Ellie... glad she didnt flinch and went right back over... good correction for her lol. CANT WAIT to see you two trialing... even from afar. 

t


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Yes, I do put them together but just once in awhile. Enough so the dog wants to turn around and face you for the reward but not enough to have them slowing down or dropping early. Like the entire sport it is a constant balancing act.

I am sure Ellie will be entertaining if nothing else. Right now she thinks the top of the A Frame is a spot to stop on and observe the world around her. Bulldogs need to change it up...


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

definitely a balancing act.

Ha, my dogs LOVE being on top of the world, anything that makes them higher so not surprised there.... no matter what or how she does she will surely be cute doing it :-D


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Beautiful job!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

WOW :grin: Nice work, Tracey congratulations!!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

tracey delin said:


> I read something online that paired the verbal down with meaning no toy, down and you get it from me, and no down command meaning toy is there find it... we will see.


This is how I teach it. If it's for Sch it's the down, if it's for Ring it's the recall. But my dogs race out expecting there will be a reward, and if they hear a down or recall command they know there won't be one out there, the reward is going to come from me. And the sooner they comply, the faster they will get it. If this concept is black and white, it stops the "let me hunt for the reward for a second, then I'll comply" that results in a slow down or recall.

To make sure this concept is black and white, I will make a show of walking down the field and putting the toy out, or having someone else do it, but then it's put in a jacket and carried off, or quickly removed when the dog is facing the other direction, or ... So the dog "knows" it's there, but when they hear the second command (down or recall) and they ignore it to hunt for the toy, the discover it's not. Doesn't take long for them to figure it out.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Tracey Hughes said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwbvP-ePYCo
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> ...



Nice protection routine. You probably lost more points for the pivot to the escort then anything else? I'd try something else if I were you?


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

I don't think I lost too much for trying to swing in as that was handler error, I forgot to step back to give more room for his longer body and the dog was under control there just sloppy. First time i ever tried it in a trial so pratice will make perfect. Having my mentor Lance sitting there watching me did not help my trial nerves. I was a wreck and it showed in my performance, by making more mistakes then normal. I did lose points for the bite in the blind, no sit before the escape, the grips being less then perfect, the back transport. Not sure what else. Always stuff to improve on! Apache was our club project to see just how big a difference Lance's training would make. It was like night and day..now it's on to IPO 1s for a few of the younger dogs to see just how well we can do in the upcoming years.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

kadi thingvall said:


> this is how i teach it. If it's for sch it's the down, if it's for ring it's the recall. But my dogs race out expecting there will be a reward, and if they hear a down or recall command they know there won't be one out there, the reward is going to come from me. And the sooner they comply, the faster they will get it. If this concept is black and white, it stops the "let me hunt for the reward for a second, then i'll comply" that results in a slow down or recall.
> 
> To make sure this concept is black and white, i will make a show of walking down the field and putting the toy out, or having someone else do it, but then it's put in a jacket and carried off, or quickly removed when the dog is facing the other direction, or ... So the dog "knows" it's there, but when they hear the second command (down or recall) and they ignore it to hunt for the toy, the discover it's not. Doesn't take long for them to figure it out.


thanks, comforting im on the right track with this  when i read it, it seemed to make sense to me, moreso than other options


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## Lee May (Jan 8, 2012)

Very good Job Congrats!!


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Excellent routines, congratulations! 

I train my voraus the same way with very little downing, ever.. I see SO many horrible send aways where the dog is slow, making loops, running sideways, thinking about turning around, etc. I want my dog FAST, straight and totally committed until I say otherwise. My little female Mal remembers absolutely everything, so I rarely, if ever down her because she immediately starts anticipating.

We had no down on our first IPO1 attempt, but she went out exactly the way I wanted and I was thrilled! :smile:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

How did you train it from scratch, Britney? I'd be interested to hear.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Britney Pelletier said:


> Excellent routines, congratulations!
> 
> I train my voraus the same way with very little downing, ever.. I see SO many horrible send aways where the dog is slow, making loops, running sideways, thinking about turning around, etc. I want my dog FAST, straight and totally committed until I say otherwise. My little female Mal remembers absolutely everything, so I rarely, if ever down her because she immediately starts anticipating.
> 
> We had no down on our first IPO1 attempt, but she went out exactly the way I wanted and I was thrilled! :smile:


Same here, rarely put the two together. My older male also anticipates, so I NEVER put the two together with him. I like to use a stick to hang my toy from, dog can't see the stick, which can be put pretty much anywhere. Really helps train a rock solid, fast and straight send out, and the dog never looks for a target and never searches the ground for it's toy.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

I agree which is why I never liked the target on the ground method, but securing the down is the hard part.. for some dogs more than others.

t


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Very nice sendout!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I just wanted to show my FR send away here as well. We did two I wanted to see if she would do a second without her kong at the end of the field on the 2nd one. She is still very committed on the 2nd one. I just love her speed and straightness. The video camera that was used didn't pick up her gallop it sounds like horses coming down the field. http://youtu.be/ps-uz-7tPLE


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

I've just started teaching the voraus. first I used a stationary/tied down toy and tried teaching him to run to a fence/place. didn't get the speed I wanted. So since his retrieves are good, I had him watch me walk to the far end of field to place the toy. I started with short distances and gradually increased. I would walk back after placing the toy. pat him and get his energy up (holding him back). send and he goes. 

the other day I tried it for the first time during / my ob routine on a different area of the field. no toy, but pretended to walk out and place one. then sent him and he took off. when he got out there, he did start looking for his toy so I recalled him.

I think he is ready to start doing the send out on other fields, longer distances. but not sure what to do for him when he gets out there as I haven't taught the down part yet. One time I walked towards him and threw the ball for him. He seemed confused as he was wanting it to appear from the ground.

How do you start teaching the down in motion (dog away from you) separately? and how do you combine it w/ the dog running out? do you throw a toy to the dog if they down quickly? do you make the dog wait in down til you retrieve them? do you just practice downing the dog under distractions during random times or make it an actual exercise?


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Hi Donna,


For my dogs, there is ALWAYS a toy at the end of the field. This is how you prevent the searching behavior.. you don't want to ever start "tricking" your dog into thinking there is a toy out there when there really isn't one, and especially don't allow them watch you look like you're going to place one, then send them and there isn't really one there. They just got zero reinforcement for performing the behavior you were asking them to do.

As far as the down, I teach completely separate from the voraus and I don't ever work on them in the same session. I will hold my dog back, pump them up, throw their toy and let them run after it. I use an e collar for teaching the down and when my dog down's I immediately release them to continue to go get their toy. I only do this while teaching the down. 

Once I feel like they have a solid comprehension of the command, I will begin to pair it with the actual voraus. At this point, I no longer release the dog to continue to their toy, and I never throw a ball from me, as that encourages them to break and come forward towards me. When I do the voraus with a down, I quickly walk to them and reward when I get next to them.

Other than that, I do tons of voraus on strange fields with their target and toy always, always, always there.. for every 10-15 send aways I do, I might do one that actually includes a down.

Hope this helps!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Britney
re: "I use an e collar for teaching the down and when my dog down's I immediately release them to continue to go get their toy. I only do this while teaching the down. "
..could you explain in a bit more detail how you teach that ?

i'm assuming of course the dog has learned the down in your basic position training, WITHOUT the Ecollar, and has already learned the down in motion from different walking speeds while in a FUS WITH the Ecollar, correct ?


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

rick smith said:


> Britney
> ..could you explain in a bit more detail how you teach that ?
> 
> i'm assuming of course the dog has learned the down in your basic position training, WITHOUT the Ecollar, and has already learned the down in motion from different walking speeds while in a FUS WITH the Ecollar, correct ?


Yep - you're correct in assuming that  I would never ask my dog to execute a behavior he/she didn't already understand in several different contexts.

Basically, when my dog is in a much higher state of drive (i.e. chasing their toy I've thrown), I use the e collar to reinforce the command.


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## Marcelo Villanueva (Apr 8, 2012)

Tracey,

Very nice OB and Protection routine, @ a regional event.

Can't wait to see your traning show casing your American Bulldog and Malinois when they take the field.

Cheers,
Chello...


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