# Housebreaking 2nd step



## Don Turnipseed

I noticed a lot of intro's included the term noob. And Connie, the is raising a working pup...or any pup. 2nd step, take the dog bed to each room and entertain yourself while there. Don't have to keep that close an eye on the pup. When training is actually complete, the dog will tell you he needs to go out, he will understand bed, sit, stay, come, down and they won't step foot in the kitchen....or any room you don't want him in. And, the dog won't bounce off the walls when in the house because of such "high drives".


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## Joby Becker

hey DON...

pictures dont say SHIT...take some video...of YOU teaching the dogs to stay on those pillows...

I want to see HOW you do it...not a picture of a dog on a pillow...

It is probably 1000 times easier than a puppy like mine, that wants everything in its mouth, wants to keep whatever he gets, and turns on everything that moves...while still trying to maintain his confidence towards me and people in general, and not ruining him, by crushing him..which does not matter for your purposes most likely..

we all have heard that your dogs do not view classical prey items, or moving things as prey, and I doubt you have live prey animals in your house....so lets see it in action...shoot a 5-10 minute vid...including what you do when the small puppy steps off of the pillow...or wanders off...or tries to destroy something...with no treats or toys...

me and EVERYONE else (probably) would watch the whole 10 minutes...

this picture means nothing...I can take a pictureof my puppy laying down too....in between him biting everything

teach all the NOOBS something...show them YOUR technique, instead of a freaking picture..

I saw your post about a puppy shutting down when the mother growls at it..that is not what happens around here...


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## Nancy Jocoy

Don, my issue was never the dog peeing and pooping in the house. It was grabbing everything within reach and running off with it or fighting with it etc. 

I think most of us have little tornadoes with teeth and not placid cuddly puppies who actually sleep on a pillow a lot.


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## Joby Becker

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Don, my issue was never the dog peeing and pooping in the house. It was grabbing everything within reach and running off with it or fighting with it etc.
> 
> I think most of us have little tornadoes with teeth and not placid cuddly puppies who actually sleep on a pillow a lot.


I tried it...the puppy barked and growled at it and started shredding the pillow..


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## Edward Egan

joby becker said:


> i tried it...the puppy barked and growled at it and started shredding the pillow..


lol\\:d/


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## Joby Becker

Don...I am a noobie...I usually just lock the dogs in a crate for 23.9 hours a day...they almost never get out in the house...

I don't want to use NEW training techniques (like marker training, treats or toys) I want to do this oldschool...Help me..please...just show a video of how you do it..or give me step by step instructions on how to get this puppy to lay on his pillow, without making him scared of me, or losing any drive for objects (he is going to possibly be presented for police K9 candidate when he is older)

If you cannot shoot video, please explain to me what I should do, step by step..and I will film it...I shot my first attempt...(I edited out the part where I got bitten) so I didn't look like a fool...

I seriously want your help..since it is so easy for you..
thanks in advance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgFcOXaRdcw


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## Don Turnipseed

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Don, my issue was never the dog peeing and pooping in the house. It was grabbing everything within reach and running off with it or fighting with it etc.
> 
> I think most of us have little tornadoes with teeth and not placid cuddly puppies who actually sleep on a pillow a lot.


Nancy, you and the others think these are placid little puppies. They are not. These are terriers. Y'all just don't know how to bring a dog up with manners. These pups have never seen a crate, never had a reward outside of praise, never had more than a verbal correction AND, never had an accident in the house. I was like most of you long ago, but, after maybe 1500 pups and 25+ years of living 24/7 with hundreds of dogs, I have learned a thing or two about dogs. Everything learned from observation. No books, never took others advice unless I thought it made sense. Then I tried it. If it was BS, I discarded it. These pups, terriers, would destroy the house if I let them. They have pulled my cupboard doors off the cabinets, they have removed 4' x 8' panels of siding off the house, but, I learned from the dogs. Now, I am almost as smart as they are, not quite, just almost. All that stuff y'all and Joby are talking about doesn't man a thing to me because those dogs would behave just like these if you knew how to handle such dogs.


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## Ariel Peldunas

Perhaps the best way to test this method would be for Don to get himself a mal or dutchie pup from strong working lines and see how well it works for a dog with relentless drive.


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## Joby Becker

I am not even sure why the puppy wanted to bite the pillow in the first place...I admit the pillow was from my bedroom...but I am also pretty sure that none of the live gerbils I keep in there came in contact with that pillow... but if they did, do you think the smell from the gerbils would cause him to want to KILL the pillow? there is a small chance,but I am 97% sure that no small animals have been in contact with that pillow...is that prey drive or hunt drive? not sure...what do you think Don?

everyone, please forgive my heavy breathing in the vids, that is from the cancer from my irresponsible vet, that only makes me wear a lead vest, and not the gloves in the xray room...I have contacted my lawyer about it...


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## Connie Sutherland

Ariel Peldunas said:


> Perhaps the best way to test this method would be for Don to get himself a mal or dutchie pup from strong working lines and see how well it works for a dog with relentless drive.



There's more than one kind of terrier for which the term "mini Mal" is very applicable.

That doesn't mean I understand the housebreaking photo series. I do know about relentless drive, though, and it's not just for Mals and Dutchies. 


JMO!


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## Joby Becker

Connie Sutherland said:


> There's more than one kind of Terrier for which the term "mini Mal" is very applicable.
> 
> That doesn't mean I understand the housebreaking photo series. I do know about relentless drive, though, and it's not just for Mals and Dutchies.
> 
> 
> JMO!


can you tell me why my pup tried to kill that pillow? is it from the gerbils, or the other live small animals that I keep by my bedside??


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## Connie Sutherland

Joby Becker said:


> can you tell me why my pup tried to kill that pillow? is it from the gerbils, or the other live small animals that I keep by my bedside??



Yes. This is a common problem among the bedside-gerbil set.


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## Joby Becker

Connie Sutherland said:


> Yes. This is a common problem among the bedside-gerbil set.


dammit...

I knew I should invest in more duct tape...but my GF said NO!

anyhow back to the problem at hand...how can I teach this puppy, without new fangled training techniques to lay on his pillow, without crushing him, or his drives for objects?? i want to do this the easy way...old school style..


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## Joby Becker

Don Turnipseed said:


> Nancy, you and the others think these are placid little puppies. They are not. These are terriers. Y'all just don't know how to bring a dog up with manners. These pups have never seen a crate, never had a reward outside of praise, never had more than a verbal correction AND, never had an accident in the house. I was like most of you long ago, but, after maybe 1500 pups and 25+ years of living 24/7 with hundreds of dogs, I have learned a thing or two about dogs. Everything learned from observation. No books, never took others advice unless I thought it made sense. Then I tried it. If it was BS, I discarded it. These pups, terriers, would destroy the house if I let them. They have pulled my cupboard doors off the cabinets, they have removed 4' x 8' panels of siding off the house, but, I learned from the dogs. Now, I am almost as smart as they are, not quite, just almost. All that stuff y'all and Joby are talking about doesn't man a thing to me because those dogs would behave just like these if you knew how to handle such dogs.


DON....SHOW us... does your manner of doing it, lend itself to promoting a dog that has no fear of it's handler or people, is not squashed in its working drives in any way, and also keep the dog's confidence, and drive for biting and possessing objects intact? like most of us want or need, for what we do with our dogs...I know you are not a fan of marker training, treats or toys...so PLEASE show us how you do it...I can make this puppy lay on his pillow in a minute..but I doubt if I wanted to throw it and have him retrieve it for me, that he would do it, afterwards..


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## Don Turnipseed

Joby Becker said:


> Don...I am a noobie...I usually just lock the dogs in a crate for 23.9 hours a day...they almost never get out in the house...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the crate was a real godsend for dogs. Also why most trainers say house training isn't training. It just teaching manners. Other than that, how would you expect a dog to be that was raised in a crate? Biggest learning curve a dog has is when he is a puppy. What do ya'll teach your dogs while they are pups..... to act crazy in the house. Probably crazy as a bed bug anyway by now.
> 
> 
> 
> Joby Becker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to use NEW training techniques (like marker training, treats or toys) I want to do this oldschool...Help me..please...just show a video of how you do it..or give me step by step instructions on how to get this puppy to lay on his pillow, *without making him scared of me, or losing any drive for objects* (he is going to possibly be presented for police K9 candidate when he is older)
> 
> 
> 
> In bold is the second biggest mistake....worring about trivial stuff like that. If a dog is working caliber and the owner isn't a complete fool, the dog will be fine. If the dog folds with sensible FAIR handling, your better off before you spend a lot of time trying to train it.
> 
> If you cannot shoot video, please explain to me what I should do, step by step..and I will film it...I shot my first attempt...(I edited out the part where I got bitten) so I didn't look like a fool...
> 
> I seriously want your help..since it is so easy for you..
> thanks in advance...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgFcOXaRdcw
> 
> 
> 
> Don't have a video camera and it takes more than ten minutes anyway. The pups will try to tear up the bed, the carpet around the bed ,one bit part of the nose off the bear hanging on the wall behind them. I raise my voice and tell them NO! I don't confuse them with all that bullshit so popular today like "Leave it" "Easy time". Crazy stuff. NO means stop whatever you are doing NOW. They know what the louder inflextion is when mom and dad used it, they know what it means when I use it. I got two trees down on the fence because of the winds. Got to get back at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Joby Becker

Don Turnipseed said:


> Joby Becker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don...I am a noobie...I usually just lock the dogs in a crate for 23.9 hours a day...they almost never get out in the house...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the crate was a real godsend for dogs. Also why most trainers say house training isn't training. It just teaching manners. Other than that, how would you expect a dog to be that was raised in a crate? Biggest learning curve a dog has is when he is a puppy. What do ya'll teach your dogs while they are pups..... to act crazy in the house. Probably crazy as a bed bug anyway by now.
> 
> 
> 
> Joby Becker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to use NEW training techniques (like marker training, treats or toys) I want to do this oldschool...Help me..please...just show a video of how you do it..or give me step by step instructions on how to get this puppy to lay on his pillow, *without making him scared of me, or losing any drive for objects* (he is going to possibly be presented for police K9 candidate when he is older)
> 
> Don't have a video camera and it takes more than ten minutes anyway. The pups will try to tear up the bed, the carpet around the bed ,one bit part of the nose off the bear hanging on the wall behind them. I raise my voice and tell them NO! I don't confuse them with all that bullshit so popular today like "Leave it" "Easy time". Crazy stuff. NO means stop whatever you are doing NOW. They know what the louder inflextion is when mom and dad used it, they know what it means when I use it. I got two trees down on the fence because of the winds. Got to get back at it.
> 
> 
> 
> the bit about the 23.9 hours was a J-O-K-E...
> 
> tell me (and all of us) HOW you do it!!!
> 
> HOW do they know what it means when you use it...my bitch growls and bites this puppy and he snarls and fights her...I scruff him and say NO! and puch him away and he comes back...so tell me, without new training techniques HOW do I do it (without crushing the pup's spirit)?
> 
> WHAT do you DO to enforce the louder no.( I mean it!) tone...and does that crush the dogs drive and possession for objects?
> 
> how about having the puppy on the pillow and just throwing a toy and having the dog retrieve it? that would only take like 5 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Don Turnipseed

This is a picturen of the dog I mentioned in one thread that is wound up all the time that the exGF raised with no control. Seldom does this dog walk anywere. She is constantly in the air. Starts more fights than any dogs I have ever had....also the one that just had pups with Griff.










Here is the same dog in the house with me whikle I am cutting up their chicken. The one on the right.


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## Joby Becker

forget video...just EXPLAIN your method.....pictures ARE NOT HELPING noobs like me...

give me the FIRST step...I will try it with my pup...he is less than 10 weeks old..shouldnt be too late...

for that matter instead of showing 6-7-8 month old pups...how about 6-14 week pups...or better yet...

*



In bold is the second biggest mistake....worring about trivial stuff like that. "(working ability in normal working dog training, and drive for objects)" If a dog is working caliber and the owner isn't a complete fool, the dog will be fine. If the dog folds with sensible FAIR handling, your better off before you spend a lot of time trying to train it.

Click to expand...

*SHOW ME ONE OF YOUR DOGS THAT HAS THIS DRIVE....if it is a mistake to worry about crushing the drive...show me one...


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## Joby Becker

Joby Becker said:


> forget video...just EXPLAIN your method.....pictures ARE NOT HELPING noobs like me...
> 
> give me the FIRST step...I will try it with my pup...he is less than 10 weeks old..shouldnt be too late...
> 
> for that matter instead of showing 6-7-8 month old pups...how about 6-14 week pups...or better yet...
> 
> 
> 
> SHOW ME ONE OF YOUR DOGS THAT HAS THIS DRIVE....if it is a mistake to worry about crushing the drive...show me one...


I KNOW I am on a rant here now...must be cause my ass is still sore from the gerbil incident...but just pick anything I said. and provide a video OR written instructions...contribute to the TRAINING aspect of this board, after all this is YOUR house training thread...posting 2 pictures teaches everyone* NOTHING!*

pretend my puppy is YOUR puppy...tell me what to do..


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Don, 


You went from saying dogs were ruined from being kept as house dogs to now being the trained house dog expert. What happened to a happy complete dog is a yard dog. There is a big difference between an high object drive prey dog than a dog that is triggered by live prey. There is nothing in what you have written that suggest your dogs have that activity level. Second, puppy sleeping on a pillow--a second in a life--as demonstrative of training ability? It would be more interesting if we could see you hunt training them. Most people who have high drive spun up dogs LIKE THEM that way. They don't care if he sleeps on a pillow. Those of us who like a dog that chills out when not working, have no problem getting them that way. 

And the whole GF thing is old. She's gone, train the dog. I still have a hard time believing that you sat around acquiesced in dog running out of control in the house. 

T


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## Joby Becker

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Don,
> 
> 
> You went from saying dogs were ruined from being kept as house dogs to now being the trained house dog expert. What happened to a happy complete dog is a yard dog. There is a big difference between an high object drive prey dog than a dog that is triggered by live prey. There is nothing in what you have written that suggest your dogs have that activity level. Second, puppy sleeping on a pillow--a second in a life--as demonstrative of training ability? It would be more interesting if we could see you hunt training them. Most people who have high drive spun up dogs LIKE THEM that way. They don't care if he sleeps on a pillow. Those of us who like a dog that chills out when not working, have no problem getting them that way.
> 
> And the whole GF thing is old. She's gone, train the dog. I still have a hard time believing that you sat around acquiesced in dog running out of control in the house.
> 
> T


Terrisita...

YOU are a proponent of the NEW-FANGLED training techniques so I realize that YOU MAY not be an expert in OLD FASHIONED, HARD-NOSED techniques, but maybe you can help me, how can I get this puppy to lay down on a pillow, without using treats or toys, and also without making him fear me, or people in general and also without diminishing his drive for objects, and keeping him FREE to express his working drives (as most people see them)...

I am looking for the easy fix, that does not diminish working ability, I am not quite sure DON can provide a method, so I am asking you..


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Joby Becker said:


> Terrisita...
> 
> YOU are a proponent of the NEW-FANGLED training techniques so I realize that YOU MAY not be an expert in OLD FASHIONED, HARD-NOSED techniques, but maybe you can help me, how can I get this puppy to lay down on a pillow, without using treats or toys, and also without making him fear me, or people in general and also without diminishing his drive for objects, and keeping him FREE to express his working drives (as most people see them)...
> 
> I am looking for the easy fix, that does not diminish working ability, I am not quite sure DON can provide a method, so I am asking you..


Okay, there is this old school term called "road work." If you don't have the station wagon, for a pup, I have this hill that you can run him up and down until he is ready to pass out. Quick get him into the house before his second wind, have the camera ready and for the 20 seconds that he curls up on the pillow before he shreds it, take the picture.

T


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## Nancy Jocoy

You know I hate the little guy spending as much time in the crate as he does but they manage to get to where they really don't have to be there and my adults are out all day (either in the house or in the yard - they are good) 

I have been using crate training since 1985 and it is not like the dogs wind up living in boxes.

I recall my childhood dogs. They took longer to housebreak and we had things chewed up too. But we put a gate in the kitchen (we had a basement, not a laundry room....) until the puppy was old enough. Just a big crate if you ask me.


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## Don Turnipseed

Joby Becker said:


> forget video...just EXPLAIN your method.....pictures ARE NOT HELPING noobs like me...
> 
> give me the FIRST step...I will try it with my pup...he is less than 10 weeks old..shouldnt be too late...
> 
> for that matter instead of showing 6-7-8 month old pups...how about 6-14 week pups...or better yet...
> 
> 
> 
> SHOW ME ONE OF YOUR DOGS THAT HAS THIS DRIVE....if it is a mistake to worry about crushing the drive...show me one...


Joby, what you want me to do is tell you how to control your dog to do what you want, like stay on the pillow. I am not going to tell you how to do that. The pictures just show the progression on how to house break the dog. The pups have two stuffed toys on the dog bed. The arms and legs are tore off. In the previous pictures on the stairs, the pups are put at the bottom of the stairs and go up and get on the bed themselves to learn what the term bed is. Takes a minor bit of coaxing but it is quick. The dog bed sets their limits and they won't pee in their space. The bed goes with them to any room they will have access to so their movement is limited and they get used to seeing each of those rooms as their living quarters. The pups don't get off the bed until they bark at me. If they don't learn to tell me they need to go out, I have to stay in the room they are in which doesn't work for me. The first time one talks to me, I take them out. The last phase is going through the same rooms without the bed and giving them more leeway after that. But, if y'all can get your dogs to mind, can't help you....as I am not a trainer. :grin: Will tell you your first mistake though. Don't use the house for playing tug, roughhousing, throwing toys because they are cute pups. Do it outside. I told you about creating most your own problems already. Let them roam and have accidents in the house....they get comfortable doing their business in the house. Play tug and such in the house, tells them that is the place to do it. Quit worrying about crushing the dogs drive. Can't be done if it is really a drive. Get a stud and a bitch in heat, you will see what I mean. That is a drive. If your dog has drive you won't crush it.....he will do all the same stuff, just not in the house....unless you have already taught him which I am sure you have. I keep saying working/training dogs isn't rocket science.....just common sense.

T, don't know what your smoking. but, where do you think those pictures of the adult dogs in the house came from. They aren't new.


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## Nancy Jocoy

I think for many of us you are preaching to the choir here.......of course you play outside....inside is manners time. Did that with the two legged kids too. 

The way you are using the bed is simply the "place" command it sounds like....


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## Nicole Stark

I don't know about any of this discussion. Frankly, I couldn't get past the disarray in the picture. Don normally your house is pretty tidy, so what the hell is going on in that room of yours? 

And Joby, cmon I'm from the mid west too but damn that accent of yours is ridiculous especially when you carry on as you do in your demonstrations of pure foolishness. Reminds me of that preacher lady in King of the Hill.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Don Turnipseed said:


> Joby, what you want me to do is tell you how to control your dog to do what you want, like stay on the pillow. I am not going to tell you how to do that. The pictures just show the progression on how to house break the dog. The pups have two stuffed toys on the dog bed. The arms and legs are tore off. In the previous pictures on the stairs, the pups are put at the bottom of the stairs and go up and get on the bed themselves to learn what the term bed is. Takes a minor bit of coaxing but it is quick. The dog bed sets their limits and they won't pee in their space. The bed goes with them to any room they will have access to so their movement is limited and they get used to seeing each of those rooms as their living quarters. The pups don't get off the bed until they bark at me. If they don't learn to tell me they need to go out, I have to stay in the room they are in which doesn't work for me. The first time one talks to me, I take them out. The last phase is going through the same rooms without the bed and giving them more leeway after that. But, if y'all can get your dogs to mind, can't help you....as I am not a trainer. :grin: Will tell you your first mistake though. Don't use the house for playing tug, roughhousing, throwing toys because they are cute pups. Do it outside. I told you about creating most your own problems already. Let them roam and have accidents in the house....they get comfortable doing their business in the house. Play tug and such in the house, tells them that is the place to do it. Quit worrying about crushing the dogs drive. Can't be done if it is really a drive. Get a stud and a bitch in heat, you will see what I mean. That is a drive. If your dog has drive you won't crush it.....he will do all the same stuff, just not in the house....unless you have already taught him which I am sure you have. I keep saying working/training dogs isn't rocket science.....just common sense.
> 
> T, don't know what your smoking. but, where do you think those pictures of the adult dogs in the house came from. They aren't new.


Don, what Palin and BlackJack? 2/3 out of thousands. I'm not smoking, just reading what you type. We won't bore everyone with citations. No books??? What happened to the Koehler fascination? So instead of a crate, you MAKE them stay on a pillow until they tell you they need to go out??? Really? This is The Dog House specialty--the place command. Instead of a pillow, its a bench. So how do you get them to stay on the pillow or did I miss that. You left out a few steps.

T


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## James Downey

Don Turnipseed said:


> Joby, what you want me to do is tell you how to control your dog to do what you want, like stay on the pillow. I am not going to tell you how to do that. The pictures just show the progression on how to house break the dog. The pups have two stuffed toys on the dog bed. The arms and legs are tore off. In the previous pictures on the stairs, the pups are put at the bottom of the stairs and go up and get on the bed themselves to learn what the term bed is. Takes a minor bit of coaxing but it is quick. The dog bed sets their limits and they won't pee in their space. The bed goes with them to any room they will have access to so their movement is limited and they get used to seeing each of those rooms as their living quarters. The pups don't get off the bed until they bark at me. If they don't learn to tell me they need to go out, I have to stay in the room they are in which doesn't work for me. The first time one talks to me, I take them out. The last phase is going through the same rooms without the bed and giving them more leeway after that. But, if y'all can get your dogs to mind, can't help you....as I am not a trainer. :grin: Will tell you your first mistake though. Don't use the house for playing tug, roughhousing, throwing toys because they are cute pups. Do it outside. I told you about creating most your own problems already. Let them roam and have accidents in the house....they get comfortable doing their business in the house. Play tug and such in the house, tells them that is the place to do it. Quit worrying about crushing the dogs drive. Can't be done if it is really a drive. Get a stud and a bitch in heat, you will see what I mean. That is a drive. If your dog has drive you won't crush it.....he will do all the same stuff, just not in the house....unless you have already taught him which I am sure you have. I keep saying working/training dogs isn't rocket science.....just common sense.
> 
> T, don't know what your smoking. but, where do you think those pictures of the adult dogs in the house came from. They aren't new.


Don, all this shit with manners... I do not give one **** about manners. All I like is open the crate and look the **** out. Other people like manners...but for me. Useless. I do not waste time teaching stupid shit like lay on a bed. I could use that time to teach my dog something valuable like oh, I do not know, not run from the decoy. Training dogs is not rocket science. There's a lot more moving parts in a dog than a rocket. 

You talk like every newbie at the club does. Ask Chris Smith. I talked to him like you talk us. Before I ever stepped foot on a trial field I spouted off at the mouth about how I was going to be smiling down upon everyone with a trophy in my hand on the podium. It's a tad tougher than one would think. and It's all bullshit till you have put your leash, ball and collars away and stepped out on to a field. And we do not care what you "think" about working dog training. Because that's all you have to go on....thoughts.


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## Don Turnipseed

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Don, what Palin and BlackJack? 2/3 out of thousands. I'm not smoking, just reading what you type. We won't bore everyone with citations. No books??? What happened to the Koehler fascination? So instead of a crate, you MAKE them stay on a pillow until they tell you they need to go out??? Really? This is The Dog House specialty--the place command. Instead of a pillow, its a bench. So how do you get them to stay on the pillow or did I miss that. You left out a few steps.
> 
> T


I could name a lot of dogs that have been in the house, or are completely housetrained and stay outside. Palin is one of them. She hasn't been in the house for 8 or 9 mo months. Close top half the dogs in the yard are house trained, they just live outside. Palin had her litter outside. What you say I said and what I usually say are miles apart T. Like the bold MAKE the pups stay on the bed. Just told you they even get on the bed on their own. News flash for you T, the pups in the pictures are not going to be house dogs either. Can't help it if that is hard for you to comprehend....you know....training them anyway. Finished training BlackJacks younger sister also. Surprise, surprise, she isn't in the house either. Magnum and Natasha are house trained, neither of them has stepped foot in the house in about 5 years. Blows your mind doesn't it. Those are just the dogs here now. And T, none of them countersurf. They won't even go in the kitchen.

As far as the Koehler books, yes, I bought them, never read them, the trainer that has Jacks brother walked me through Jack's training step by step. Of course you conveniently forgot about that even though it was talked about in the thread on Kohler. It was probably you that it was brought up for then also, being such a stickler for detail and sharp as a dull pencil. By the way , why did you fabricate the thousands, think that sounded better? 

As for how I get them to stay on the pillow. Go back and read what I said. Not going to tell Joby how to get his dogs to mind. Covered that T, your just in too big a hurry writing your special interpretations to read the damned posts.


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## Joby Becker

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> So *how do you get them to stay on the pillow* or did I miss that. You left out a few steps.
> 
> T


yeah this is a dog training forum...so explain for the good of everyone that has read your housetraining thread HOW you do it...


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## Don Turnipseed

James Downey said:


> Don, all this shit with manners... I do not give one **** about manners. All I like is open the crate and look the **** out. Other people like manners...but for me. Useless. I do not waste time teaching stupid shit like lay on a bed. I could use that time to teach my dog something valuable like oh, I do not know, not run from the decoy. Training dogs is not rocket science. There's a lot more moving parts in a dog than a rocket.
> 
> You talk like every newbie at the club does. Ask Chris Smith. I talked to him like you talk us. Before I ever stepped foot on a trial field I spouted off at the mouth about how I was going to be smiling down upon everyone with a trophy in my hand on the podium. It's a tad tougher than one would think. and It's all bullshit till you have put your leash, ball and collars away and stepped out on to a field. And we do not care what you "think" about working dog training. Because that's all you have to go on....thoughts.


Then go talk about prey drive James. LOL


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## Sara Waters

The first 3 dogs I had were all high drive ACDS with a tendency to rip and tear were housetrained easily without crates (never heard of them ) and treats. I did use praise. 

With my pups I exercised them regularly and when I was out at work I had them contained in the laundry or whatever (like a big crate I guess). Apart from that, they slept by my bed in cardboard box and I would get up once in the night if they needed to go. Rest of the time I just took them out regularly to the same spot used the word do wee wee or whatever and praised them when they performed. I always took then out after they had eaten as this is usually when they produced the goods. It was reletively easy to notice when they were getting restless. In the house they usually hung wth me and I would keep an eye on them but they werent on a pillow or anything.

I had the occassional chewed rug but not much. I just exercised then, played with them, taught them basic manners and consistently took them outside with a command word and praise when they performed. I cant see it as rocket science. This was long before I knew anything about training dogs for work or sport, crates etc. or whatever and most of my friends did it the same way with no problems.

My dogs all learnt to indicate when they wanted out, by a bark, a stare, a knock on the door or whatever. I didn't teach them that they just worked it for themselves.


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## Don Turnipseed

Nicole Stark said:


> I don't know about any of this discussion. Frankly, I couldn't get past the disarray in the picture. Don normally your house is pretty tidy, so what the hell is going on in that room of yours?
> 
> And Joby, cmon I'm from the mid west too but damn that accent of yours is ridiculous especially when you carry on as you do in your demonstrations of pure foolishness. Reminds me of that preacher lady in King of the Hill.


That is my storage room Nicole. 8' reloading bench on one side, gun cabinets on another tools and just about anything else on the shelves in the picture. The black back there is recyclables. Computer on the other.


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## Don Turnipseed

Sara Waters said:


> The first 3 dogs I had were all high drive ACDS with a tendency to rip and tear were housetrained easily without crates (never heard of them ) and treats. I did use praise.
> 
> With my pups I exercised them regularly and when I was out at work I had them contained in the laundry or whatever (like a big crate I guess). Apart from that, they slept by my bed in cardboard box and I would get up once in the night if they needed to go. Rest of the time I just took them out regularly to the same spot used the word do wee wee or whatever and praised them when they performed. I always took then out after they had eaten as this is usually when they produced the goods. It was reletively easy to notice when they were getting restless. In the house they usually hung wth me and I would keep an eye on them but they werent on a pillow or anything.
> 
> I had the occassional chewed rug but not much. I just exercised then, played with them, taught them basic manners and consistently took them outside with a command word and praise when they performed. I cant see it as rocket science. This was long before I knew anything about training dogs for work or sport, crates etc. or whatever and most of my friends did it the same way with no problems.
> 
> My dogs all learnt to indicate when they wanted out, by a bark, a stare, a knock on the door or whatever. I didn't teach them that they just worked it for themselves.


It is simple stuff Sara, if the dogs will stay on the pillow. LoL Of course it wasn't always this easy. I can't begin to tell you how many brawls took place in the house with these cuddly, layed back little dogs. May not have any pee stains on the carpet, but, there was a lot of blood stains. Had a couple of dislocated shoulders from fighting around the chair legs where one pup would get hung up while the other twisted. Sweet cuddly little terriers that they are. Kept a pair of gloves handy for breaking em up. Ah, but now I am almost as smart as their parents.


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## Joby Becker

Don you are really an obtuse old codger...

I really do not want you to tell me how to do anything...I would really really like you to explain how YOU do things...share your training methods..as almost everyone else on here does if they are asked to do so...

I can train this puppy over time to stay on a pillow, with positive rewards...or rather quickly with positive punishment, maybe something physical to drive home my NO!...and then enforce the NO! until he was scared shitless and complies everytime...which will really set back a dog like this at the age of 10 weeks old...

I would say it is damn near impossible to train at this age with this type of dog, without spending 24/7 training it, or just crushing him...

If I kept him outside and let him grow up a little, he would be older and more mature, say around 6-7 months, maybe even 5 months... then he could withstand more punishment and I could really hammer him into shape...with slightly less damage to his working potential...maybe...

that is how I could do it...the question is HOW DO YOU DO IT?


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## Don Turnipseed

Joby Becker said:


> yeah this is a dog training forum...so explain for the good of everyone that has read your housetraining thread HOW you do it...


I pretty much told you Joby, just didn't register with either you or*Terrasita*.


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## Bob Scott

Don, as someone that loves terriers and has spent a number of years hunting with terriers I have the greatest respect for your efforts to breed Dales for hunting. Sounds like you've had good success at it too. Training a well bred hunting/baying/catch dog is one thing but mostly letting them run with a seasoned dog will accomplish it. Sort of like teaching a working bred Lab to retrieve. If you don't totally ****up the dog it will happen. Not talking about competition dogs but meat and potato hunting dogs. 
As for training dogs to do anything else, I think your getting a bit desperate to show us you can. 
If your happy with your success then I am happy for you but I suspect many of us have pictures of our pups laying/sitting around the house/pen/yard/kennel. It's not really a good indacation of what we've done with our dogs. Just sayin!


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## Nicole Stark

Don Turnipseed said:


> That is my storage room Nicole. 8' reloading bench on one side, gun cabinets on another tools and just about anything else on the shelves in the picture. The black back there is recyclables. Computer on the other.


Alright Don, I'll let it slide this time. ha ha, carry on! :grin:


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Don Turnipseed said:


> I could name a lot of dogs that have been in the house, or are completely housetrained and stay outside. Palin is one of them. She hasn't been in the house for 8 or 9 mo months. Close top half the dogs in the yard are house trained, they just live outside. Palin had her litter outside. What you say I said and what I usually say are miles apart T. Like the bold MAKE the pups stay on the bed. Just told you they even get on the bed on their own. News flash for you T, the pups in the pictures are not going to be house dogs either. Can't help it if that is hard for you to comprehend....you know....training them anyway. Finished training BlackJacks younger sister also. Surprise, surprise, she isn't in the house either. Magnum and Natasha are house trained, neither of them has stepped foot in the house in about 5 years. Blows your mind doesn't it. Those are just the dogs here now. And T, none of them countersurf. They won't even go in the kitchen.
> 
> As far as the Koehler books, yes, I bought them, never read them, the trainer that has Jacks brother walked me through Jack's training step by step. Of course you conveniently forgot about that even though it was talked about in the thread on Kohler. It was probably you that it was brought up for then also, being such a stickler for detail and sharp as a dull pencil. By the way , why did you fabricate the thousands, think that sounded better?
> 
> As for how I get them to stay on the pillow. Go back and read what I said. Not going to tell Joby how to get his dogs to mind. Covered that T, your just in too big a hurry writing your special interpretations to read the damned posts.


 
Hahahah, sharp as a dull pencil??? That's really how you are portraying your puppies. They get on a pillow on their own???? Really. Don I have 13 and 15 week old puppies. They get on the dog pillows with toys all the time. One of them even barks to go outside. The other goes to the back door. So. I didn't train them to do that. They've made certain associations after a couple of weeks. What motivates your dogs to stay on a pillow and bark for permission to get off the pillow or for you to take them outside??? What's been mind blowing is that you are talking about house training instead of dogs living naturally without coddling and raising the future hunting prospect.

T


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## brad robert

Bob Scott said:


> Don, as someone that loves terriers and has spent a number of years hunting with terriers I have the greatest respect for your efforts to breed Dales for hunting. Sounds like you've had good success at it too. Training a well bred hunting/baying/catch dog is one thing but mostly letting them run with a seasoned dog will accomplish it. Sort of like teaching a working bred Lab to retrieve. If you don't totally ****up the dog it will happen. Not talking about competition dogs but meat and potato hunting dogs.
> As for training dogs to do anything else, I think your getting a bit desperate to show us you can.
> If your happy with your success then I am happy for you but I suspect many of us have pictures of our pups laying/sitting around the house/pen/yard/kennel. It's not really a good indacation of what we've done with our dogs. Just sayin!


Nicely said.


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## Don Turnipseed

Haven't got a clue were your coming from with that post Bob. Like I said, it's pretty simple stuff doing housebreaking without a crate. Nothing hard about what I am showing like I said.. Don't know where your coming up with "desperate. Good grief. I sit at the table and have a couple of drinks or screw around on the computer while doing it. Don't know where you got training hunting dogs r competition dogs into this, but, for the record, no one would ever let me run my dogs with their experienced dogs unless they were muzzled which I wouldn't do. Seems to me, you hunted ground terriers anyway. Your getting off topic.


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## Jason Davis

Clean that room...


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## brad robert

Don you cant work out what he was saying or are you kidding seems straight forward.

Don why are your terriers so bad ass??


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## Don Turnipseed

brad robert said:


> Don you cant work out what he was saying or are you kidding seems straight forward.
> 
> Don why are your terriers so bad ass??


No, I can't Brad. If proving something was the goal, I wouldn't be putting pictures of pups sitting on a pillow. Everyone here puts up and endless stream of videos. I put up pic's. Big deal.

As far as the dogs being bad ass? Don't see where I said they were bad ass I said I couldn't run them with experienced dogs here....which are all hounds. You would have to ask the owners of the hounds why I suppose.


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## Nicole Stark

I really don't know about all this stuff.

The first step here is learning to ring a bell when it's time to go out. Forget about all that crate and pillow nonsense, I go straight to letting them tell me what they want and when. But first I show them how to do that. 

Both the bully and snipe do it. And sure, the snipe spends time in a crate but this is how it goes when she's out. Imagine now, what do I find when I take her to the cabin for the first time and she decides it's time to go outside? Ding. Ding. No squatting on the floor or in a corner. Straight to the door to ring the bell.

Course, that bull face pulled that shitznit on me just so she could cruise off and eat from a moose carcass. It took me a while to figure that out but when she brought the lower quarter back I got wise to her tricks and started going outside with her.

Ah, whatever really. To each his own. Pillow, crate, bell... what difference does it make and who really cares at the end of the day?


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## Travis Ragin

Don Turnipseed said:


> Y'all just don't know how to bring a dog up with manners. ..


That's exactly what I'm hearing with several people posting in this thread






> All that stuff y'all and Joby are talking about doesn't man a thing to me because those dogs would behave just like these if you knew how to handle such dogs


Agree with this as well






My question to Joby is....

..how does being able to *control* your own dog & having them respect you-diminish any working ability?



t


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## Travis Ragin

James Downey said:


> Don, all this shit with manners... I do not give one **** about manners. All I like is open the crate and look the **** out. Other people like manners...but for me. Useless.


sounds like you own a feral animal.........not a domesticated dog


and you are "bragging" about this?




t


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## Gillian Schuler

Connie Sutherland said:


> Yes. This is a common problem among the bedside-gerbil set.


Couldn't agree more - after feathers flew from our duvet!!


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## susan tuck

I don't understand why this thread was even started. Moderators: Do these rules still apply?

*http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...ease-read-forum-guidelines-12-20-2006-a-1942/*

*EVERYBODY PLEASE READ: Forum Guidelines...12/20/2006* 

*4. This is not a general obedience site.*
Basic dog issues...housebreaking, basic leadership, crating, etc...are topics best left to other forums. Please PM a moderator if you would like a link to places better equipped to address those needs.


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## Connie Sutherland

Yes, of course those pointers are still the goal here. They are not carved in stone but they describe what the forum is meant for. At least two mods have mentioned being mildly surprised about a "housebreaking series" here by a longtime member. 

This response actually makes more sense (to me, anyway): _"If proving something was the goal, I wouldn't be putting pictures of pups sitting on a pillow. Everyone here puts up and endless stream of videos. I put up pic's."_


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## Connie Sutherland

Gillian Schuler said:


> Couldn't agree more - after feathers flew from our duvet!!


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## leslie cassian

Nicole Stark said:


> I really don't know about all this stuff.
> 
> Straight to the door to ring the bell.
> 
> Course, that bull face pulled that shitznit on me just so she could cruise off and eat from a moose carcass. It took me a while to figure that out but when she brought the lower quarter back I got wise to her tricks and started going outside with her.


Raw feeding is very popular and if your dog is saving you the time and expense of procuring it, I see this only as win-win. Plus she's bringing back some for her little buddy. Of course, I don't think I'd be wanting to spend much time in a small cabin with a couple of dogs with their bellies full of 'well-aged' moose meat. Could be a little ripe come evening.


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## Nancy Jocoy

The thread is running like an old Sienfeld Episode.

Something about nothing...


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## Don Turnipseed

Nancy Jocoy said:


> The thread is running like an old Sienfeld Episode.
> 
> Something about nothing...


LOL You got that right Nancy. Funny thing is, "housebreaking" is the title. If no one is interested, no one has to read it. I never got past the title of "Newest Designer Dog" . Wasn't interested, never looked at it. The designer dogs, by the way, is in the general working dog forum. Doesn't seem to bother certain mods at all. Just another observation.


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## Don Turnipseed

Travis Ragin said:


> That's exactly what I'm hearing with several people posting in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agree with this as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My question to Joby is....
> 
> ..how does being able to *control* your own dog & having them respect you-diminish any working ability?
> 
> 
> 
> t


OMG Travis! You know the "pack" will be on you now.....but dogs are not people and the behavior is totally different.....or so I am told. LOL


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## Don Turnipseed

susan tuck said:


> I don't understand why this thread was even started. Moderators: Do these rules still apply?
> 
> *http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...ease-read-forum-guidelines-12-20-2006-a-1942/*
> 
> *EVERYBODY PLEASE READ: Forum Guidelines...12/20/2006*
> 
> *4. This is not a general obedience site.*
> Basic dog issues...housebreaking, basic leadership, crating, etc...are topics best left to other forums. Please PM a moderator if you would like a link to places better equipped to address those needs.


Ah Susan, wondered when you would show. You always show up when things are stirring....just to say how ridiculous it all is.....but you always show. Go ahead now and throw in a few of your goddamnits and get that over with also. Your as predictable as any dog I have ever owned in my life.


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## Thomas Barriano

Hell I'd say that "The Seeds" training was all "Voodoo" if the name wasn't already in use ;-)


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## Don Turnipseed

Connie Sutherland said:


> Yes, of course those pointers are still the goal here. They are not carved in stone but they describe what the forum is meant for. At least two mods have mentioned being mildly surprised about a "housebreaking series" here by a longtime member.


Why would a "housebreaking series" surprise you? From reading some of the posts, it seemed like a fitting topic. As for the pictures, as inane as they seem, Joby and T harped through more than half of the thread for me to tell them how. I did in a very obscure way of course. Neither one even pickd up on it.

Close the thread. I am used to it. Besides, when Susan shows it is pretty much a done deal. LOL


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## susan tuck

Poor ole musty, crusty don, still so bitter. You lost, get over it loser.
\\/


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## Don Turnipseed

susan tuck said:


> Poor ole musty, crusty don, still so bitter. You lost, get over it loser.
> \\/


It was a learning exprience for me, Susan. Has nothing to do with this thread that I can see. I don't see that my posts were any different before the "big event" than they are now. I just have a caustic nature. Always have had.....like yours. :grin: Let your hair down and give us one of your "goddamnits" so Connie can close the thread. It has run it's course or you wouldn't have showed up. :wink:


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## Connie Sutherland

Don Turnipseed said:


> Why would a "housebreaking series" surprise you? From reading some of the posts, it seemed like a fitting topic. As for the pictures, as inane as they seem, Joby and T harped through more than half of the thread for me to tell them how. I did in a very obscure way of course. Neither one even pickd up on it.
> 
> Close the thread. I am used to it.


Come on, this is silly. Other topics mildly surprise me too. But so what? I'm easily mildly surprised. :lol: 

_"Close the thread. I am used to it." _ This HAS to be a joke. I do not believe you are really whining. So I'm gonna laugh. :lol: :lol:


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## susan tuck

Don Turnipseed said:


> It was a learning exprience for me, Susan. Has nothing to do with this thread that I can see. I don't see that my posts were any different before the "big event" than they are now. I just have a caustic nature. Always have had.....like yours. :grin: Let your hair down and give us one of your "goddamnits" so Connie can close the thread. It has run it's course or you wouldn't have showed up. :wink:


Bullshit. Ever since you lost you've had nothing but one long ass petulant tantrum, and it wasn't a "learning experience" for you (as you put it) because you've done nothing but offer sorry excuse after sorry excuse as to why your dogs didn't do what you said they would do. 

Everyone here would have been willing to drop it but ever since you have had nothing but snide little boy comments for anyone and everyone involved in man work/grip sports with their dogs, because you can't stand the fact that just MAYBE there actually ARE people who know something more than you about dogs.


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## kenneth roth

Don Turnipseed said:


> I noticed a lot of intro's included the term noob. And Connie, the is raising a working pup...or any pup. 2nd step, take the dog bed to each room and entertain yourself while there. Don't have to keep that close an eye on the pup. When training is actually complete, the dog will tell you he needs to go out, he will understand bed, sit, stay, come, down and they won't step foot in the kitchen....or any room you don't want him in. And, the dog won't bounce off the walls when in the house because of such "high drives".


you made it sound like this is the 1 and only way and the right way to house train a pup ehh geuss what its aint.





Don Turnipseed said:


> It was a learning exprience for me, Susan. Has nothing to do with this thread that I can see. I don't see that my posts were any different before the "big event" than they are now. I just have a caustic nature. Always have had.....like yours. Let your hair down and give us one of your "goddamnits" so Connie can close the thread. It has run it's course or you wouldn't have showed up.


dont force your point of view on us ,,read and reply or get new glasses so you can read??

joby becker gave very good info and then ya bashed him cause u didn't get your point thro so ya gotaa bash people


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## Jason Davis

susan tuck said:


> Poor ole musty, crusty don, still so bitter. You lost, get over it loser.
> \\/


What was lost?


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