# Seizure



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

If anyone can help I would appreciate it so much.

The dog is an 8 1/2 year old Donovan Pinscher.
He is highly trained.
He is retired from SchH.
There are 3 other dogs in the family--all of them are fine.
All the dogs are *NEVER* left alone without supervision or confined.
All the dogs live in the house.
All the dogs are in large enclosed condos in the house when they aren't out loose.
All the dogs are never left alone in the yard.
All the dogs are extremelly healthy.
The yard is policed every day & cleaned up.
At this point in his life, the vet does not vaccinate him except for rabies.
This dog is out a lot in the house--he is always with me & the house is dog-proof.

He had a seizure last night. He was in his condo--it was around 9pm.
Only his back legs were involved.
He kept trying to get up but his back legs weren't responding.
I don't think he was in pain. 
Nothing unusual happened during the day--he acted completely normal. 
The seizure lasted about 5 minutes. It involved his back legs only. 
I was with him throughout the whole seizure & he was wagging his tail throughout the whole seizure except for not more than 2 minutes. 
He came out of the seizure & he acted completely normal for the next hour--we went to bed & he was acting completely normal this morning. 
He is not in any pain--if anything, he seems to be getting more athletic as he gets older.
There has been no change in his behavior, diet or schedule.

He had an identical seizure almost 3 years ago. 
We rushed him to the vet.
By the time we reached the vet, he was back to normal.
She couldn't diagnose the reason for the symptoms.
Because he was completely normal the next day, we did not return to the vet--she seemed incompetent, uninterested & not willing to work with a dog in a muzzle. Yes, he looked aggressive with the wire basket muzzle on, but was not acting aggressive.
There haven't been any other similar episodes until last night.
All the dogs are on a raw diet--there has no change in their diet.
All dog's stools are normal.

From what I have read so far the only thing I have come up with is:
Secondary epilepsy with partial seizures.
There is a problem with this since there weren't any signs except the back leg problem.
I can't say the back legs were competely affected, they just weren't responding to his attempts to stand up--but they were moving.
He's in no evident pain.
He doesn't seem to have any ear infections--not itching.
He's an extremelly active, happy dog. He's retired & does not go through any stessful training. 
He's my protector so he's practically always with me--he has a stress-free life.
My husband has been playing with him alot recently--he gets very excited--he likes to bite & fight during play--he ne ver attacks me or my husband. 
He never bites me in anger.
I was reading about thresholds--could the excitement of biting be his tipping point.

We have a vet who we trust. But basically, this dog is not going to go through any tests willingly. He wasn't groggy or any different this morning during his time at the park. Again, this dog, and all our dogs are supervised or safely confined 100% of the time. There is not a chance in a million that he got into something or poisoned in some way. The park we go to in the morning is perfect--well-maintained etc.--it is not a dog park.

Does this sound like secondary epilepsy? If there was an underlying cause, I think it would have manifested itself during the years between these 2 seizures.

Please help if you have an opinion.. I don't want to have to put this dog through a ton of tests without information. Hoping he'll go for another 3 years without a seizure. 

Thank you anyone who can help.


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't have a clue but I have an old dog that has had exactly that happen a few times and it's because of a growth in her brain.

Just a thought.


----------



## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Sorry Sue.

I have no clue either.

When I was a child we had a Cocker who had violent seizure's. The vet wanted to put the dog down bc the meds were expensive. He offered to spay her and she immediately stopped the seizures. I think she lived to be 17 years old and stopped the seizures at age 3.

Julie


----------



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> I don't have a clue but I have an old dog that has had exactly that happen a few times and it's because of a growth in her brain.
> 
> Just a thought.


Thanks Chris--I thought of that too because secondary epilepsy is usually due to an underlying brain disease. But the seizure was identical to the one almost 3 years ago & I sort of was hoping that it wasn't a brain issue because there haven't been any health issues since then. If there was a tumor I was thinking that it would have grown in that amount of time--maybe it's just wishful thinking though.

What happened your dog eventually? How did she pass? Did the seizures get worse or more frequent?


----------



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> Sorry Sue.
> 
> I have no clue either.
> 
> ...


Thanks Julie--I'll keep my fingers crossed that this is just an anomoly. I can deal with 5 minutes of stress every 3 years.


----------



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

I look at our dogs every day & thank God that they are healthy & happy. Three of them are getting up there & when people post about their beloved dogs passing I cry for them--then I cry for myself because I don't know what I'll do when the inevitible happens.


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Sue Miller said:


> Thanks Chris--I thought of that too because secondary epilepsy is usually due to an underlying brain disease. But the seizure was identical to the one almost 3 years ago & I sort of was hoping that it wasn't a brain issue because there haven't been any health issues since then. If there was a tumor I was thinking that it would have grown in that amount of time--maybe it's just wishful thinking though.
> 
> What happened your dog eventually? How did she pass? Did the seizures get worse or more frequent?



she's still alive. She's getting worse but she by far has more good days than bad days. I can tell when she about to have an episode because she gets very feisty and tears off after the other dogs. It's kinda of funny to see the Rotties and the Mal be afraid of a little 15lbs pug. They can all sense it, if they don't give her at least 10ft radius she lays into them. Not an attack but she runs them into the corners of the house and all the dogs scramble If they could talk it would be something like "OH SHIT... get outta here. RUN!!"

By worse, I mean more frequent and longer episodes. Last year she had three episode but so far since Jan, she's had two and when she does I notice she's a little wobbly for a day or two - just her back end and her eye twitches for about a week.

This has been going on for the past 3 1/2 years. She's 11yrs old.


----------



## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

I have a dog that had seizures fairly often and we could not figure out why.As soon as my girl friend moved out he never had another one, and he never had one b4 she moved in. He is now 17 yrs old and it has been 7 yrs since his last seizure.She had a habit of giving him sweets and stuff which I tried to stop. She could have been doing worse when I was not around to get at me.So,, you just never know.


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I had to retire my Dutchie last year due to a sudden onset of seizures. Once he stopped training hard and got the "good life" of just being a high drive house pet, he has not had another one. 

I do have liquid Diazapam (inserted rectally) on hand, and if he does have one, we use that and it stops them pretty much immediately. 

They cannot figure out what it is, as all tests and scans were normal. 

Sometimes I wonder if it is due to the drive and intensity he has and his getting older now?


----------



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

Carol Boche said:


> I had to retire my Dutchie last year due to a sudden onset of seizures. Once he stopped training hard and got the "good life" of just being a high drive house pet, he has not had another one.
> 
> I do have liquid Diazapam (inserted rectally) on hand, and if he does have one, we use that and it stops them pretty much immediately.
> 
> ...


Thanks Carol--my husband has been playing rough with him for the past 3 or 4 days. It always turns into a bitework type play. Maybe he shouldn't do that anymore. Just from reading a little about it, there's a threshhold for some dogs with secondary epilepsy.

He was absolutely ok after his first seizure & is perfectly ok today. He was running around this morning at the park like normal, so I don't think the symptoms were from a spinal injury.


----------



## Nikki M Williams (Jul 17, 2009)

I had a Australian sheppard mix that had what sounds similar as to what your dog is experiancing. She had a seizure maybe once evey three years and nothing was ever changed in her daily routine. Samething , she was doing nothing but you could tell it was coming on. Her eyes would go glassy and then her back legs would go out but she still knew what was going on around her.We would just pet her until she came out of it. Then when she did she was fine and nothing again for a couple of years
Our Vet told us he didnt want to put her on any medication unless her seziures became more frequent, which they never did. She lived to be 17 years old. They could never really find out what caused the seizures but it never effected her daily life. Hope things work out.


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

My first hand experience with seizures has been limited to what I have learned through my brother's condition. It appears that many of the causes in people cross over pretty easily to dogs - like the case that Julie described (hormonally driven) which can be problematic in certain women, this is true of teenagers with a known low seizure threshold as their seizure activity increases around the time of puberty. Finding the cause as anyone could imagine requires extreme diligence and in the case where they're not problematic (not more than every few years) people tend to just be prepared and hope for the best.

Carol your situation could very much be due to being over stimulated mentally. Again, it's a known contributor in people as is sleep deprivation so it's likely connected here and if accurate probably pretty easy to keep in check. 

Vitamin deficiency, gluten intolerance, etc all have been linked to seizures. The list goes on and on.

Sue, I am not all that familiar with dogs whose seizures manifest physically in only one part of the body. From the input of others, it seems like it's not terribly uncommon. I would be very interested in hearing a follow up on this if you happen to hear back from the dogs owner.


----------



## Al Fambrini (May 15, 2008)

I had the same problem with my eight year old shepherd, also retired schutzhund. His seizures started off monthly, weekly, and every ten days. He was examined by the vet. without any help. I checked the internet and found out that people have been treating their dog with taurine (amino acid) for seizures. So I started him on taurine and for the past 18 months he has been seizure free. He receives two 500 mg two times a day. 
You might want to check it out.
Al


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Sue, by any chance have you applied flea-tick medication recently? Just a thought, Eddie


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Edward Egan said:


> Sue, by any chance have you applied flea-tick medication recently? Just a thought, Eddie


OR recent innoculations!


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Indeed, and along those same lines... Febreeze, detergent, neighbors spraying lawns, carpet cleaning solution, lawn treatments of your own, the potential list of suspects seems to be very long.


----------



## Audrey Pleiss (May 8, 2009)

I have never seen a seizure where just the back legs are affected. No head tremors or teeth chomping? 

My Dobie girl was having problems with her back legs giving out. The vet was thinking wobblers. the X-ray was clear, no spine problems. What he found was a bad hip. The ball had popped out of the socket. Has your Dobie had X-rays, complete, the whole spine? Not to alarm you, but with wobblers and the spine could very well be seizure related, and what you describe with the back legs is so describing what my vet told me about wobblers.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I totally missed "back legs only". ](*,)
My daughter had a Border terrier/JRT that this happend to on a daily basis. Back legs would go out from under her but she acted like nothing happened and would happily just drag herself around the yard till it went away. (5 or so mins). 
This went on for a number of years but never seemd to affect the dog in any other way. 
I'll check with my daughter and find out if anything for sure was ever diagnosed.
If I recall, excitement usually brought it on.


----------

