# Just an updated pic of Annie



## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Spring in MN is much better than winter.

Annie today...almost 10 mos.










Favorite old pic. My toddler, Dog Whisperer. Pup is from Annie's litter.










Off-forum pic: Gracie (now 22 pounds :roll is not fat. She's just full of fight drive. Dare you to touch her tummy right now.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

That second pic is priceless!  
Oh, and being a cat owner myself, I'd rather stare down a fight-drive GSD than touch a cat's belly. :lol:
JK..


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

LOL I have a little Dog Whisperer, too!!!!!! My 2 1/2 year old, Elena, loves to give Achilles commands. If he doesn't understand her, she motors this big GSD through what she wants! He'll even listen to her if she gives the command in English. Watching her getting him to retrieve is priceless. She'll say, "Chilles, COME!" He'll go to her. She'll say, "SIT DOWN YOU." He'll sit. Then she throws the ball and says, "VAUS" (b/c she can't say voraus) He runs and grabs it. She yells, "Brrrrrrrrrrrring" whichh sounds something like a telephone ringing when she says it. He brings it back. She says "Aus!" He drops it in her hand. Then, for good measure, she says, "Good boy, Chilles." I need to get it on video sometime. Now she walks up to Andi and gives her commands and then tattles on her when she won't comply. "Moooooom, Andi won't SITZ!" Such is life, princess.

Annie is ust gorgeous!!! And what kind of kitty is that? A ragdoll? I wouldn't touch her belly either. My cat gutted me more than once and she was a 7 lb all black German barn cat! I'm still sporting scars from her...


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Stacia Porter said:


> LOL I have a little Dog Whisperer, too!!!!!! My 2 1/2 year old, Elena, loves to give Achilles commands. If he doesn't understand her, she motors this big GSD through what she wants! He'll even listen to her if she gives the command in English. Watching her getting him to retrieve is priceless. She'll say, "Chilles, COME!" He'll go to her. She'll say, "SIT DOWN YOU." He'll sit. Then she throws the ball and says, "VAUS" (b/c she can't say voraus) He runs and grabs it. She yells, "Brrrrrrrrrrrring" whichh sounds something like a telephone ringing when she says it. He brings it back. She says "Aus!" He drops it in her hand. Then, for good measure, she says, "Good boy, Chilles." I need to get it on video sometime. Now she walks up to Andi and gives her commands and then tattles on her when she won't comply. "Moooooom, Andi won't SITZ!" Such is life, princess.
> 
> Annie is ust gorgeous!!! And what kind of kitty is that? A ragdoll? I wouldn't touch her belly either. My cat gutted me more than once and she was a 7 lb all black German barn cat! I'm still sporting scars from her...


Your kid is much further along than mine with speech! My kid imprinted hard on Annie after he slipped her about 3/4 pounds of Solid Gold Turkey Jerky through the baby gates one day. :roll: I'm pretty sure most of last winter was me in the backyard chipping out frozen pudding with a spade shovel. 

She's a pound cat, I think American and Siamese, really pretty but I cannot get the thing to lose weight. She's on Evo Cat right now, minimal amounts, I need to take her to the vet and get stuff checked out...it has been awhile as she does not travel well.  (I'll actually take any advice here)

The size thing wasn't all bad...she's got a full deck of claws and we have a "live and let live" rule in the house so if any animal or kid gets popped messing with another animal or kid, the instigator loses arbitration with me (within reason). The kids give her a very wide berth, and Annie wasn't even her weight until she was about 3-4 months old.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

I know it's off-topic, but you did ask for help with the kitty: How old is the cat? My mom's cat, Shadow, (mine when I was living there) is 18 and is pretty big (coming down slowly from a diet), but when he was 16 he was very obese (24 lbs) and was diagnosed with feline diabetes. This can happen when cats are overweight (like humans) and can make it quite hard to get them to lose weight because you have to make sure all their levels are ok. Normally, this means taking them to the vet every week to get glucose test, however I'm a vet tech so I just draw a little bit of his blood and test it on a glucose tester that was made for humans. Now Shadow is about 13lbs, and I don't think we'll get him lower than that (still has that pooch cats get when they get fat).
Edited to add: Try to run by your vet and pick up a perscription food called Feline DM (Diabetics Managment). It's a good, low-fat diet for larger cats (and dogs, sometimes). Or you can feed raw  (that's what Shadow eats)


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Your kid is much further along than mine with speech! My kid imprinted hard on Annie after he slipped her about 3/4 pounds of Solid Gold Turkey Jerky through the baby gates one day. :roll: I'm pretty sure most of last winter was me in the backyard chipping out frozen pudding with a spade shovel.
> 
> She's a pound cat, I think American and Siamese, really pretty but I cannot get the thing to lose weight. She's on Evo Cat right now, minimal amounts, I need to take her to the vet and get stuff checked out...it has been awhile as she does not travel well.  (I'll actually take any advice here)
> 
> The size thing wasn't all bad...she's got a full deck of claws and we have a "live and let live" rule in the house so if any animal or kid gets popped messing with another animal or kid, the instigator loses arbitration with me (within reason). The kids give her a very wide berth, and Annie wasn't even her weight until she was about 3-4 months old.


Does she by chance have blue eyes? What happens when you pick her up and hold her? Will she defend herself with those claws? You must might ahve a Ragdoll mix on your hands! They look like really big Siamese with blue eyes and docile temperments (hence the name Ragdoll: go limp in your arms when you pick them up). I want to adopt one but DH says NO WAY.

My kitty wasn't declawed either. It's actually illegal in Germany! Achilles had to learn the hard way that kitty meant business...


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

I wish declawing was illegal here. It's really a disgusting thing to do. Believe me, I've helped with quite a few declaws as a tech, so I know all the different ways it's done, but cutting off the first digit of an animal's little toes is just gross.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Sarah Hall said:


> I wish declawing was illegal here. It's really a disgusting thing to do. Believe me, I've helped with quite a few declaws as a tech, so I know all the different ways it's done, but cutting off the first digit of an animal's little toes is just gross.


AMEN to that, Sarah! We did use Soft Claws with a lot of luck on her. Hard part was getting them ON!!!!! I have some nice war wounds from those episodes.

Waaaay off topic: but have you ever seen those used for a dog? I'm considering therapy work for Andi and was thinking those would be good so she doesn't accidentally scratch during visits.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Stacia Porter said:


> Does she by chance have blue eyes? What happens when you pick her up and hold her? Will she defend herself with those claws? You must might ahve a Ragdoll mix on your hands! They look like really big Siamese with blue eyes and docile temperments (hence the name Ragdoll: go limp in your arms when you pick them up). I want to adopt one but DH says NO WAY.
> 
> My kitty wasn't declawed either. It's actually illegal in Germany! Achilles had to learn the hard way that kitty meant business...


She'll unload on anyone that is messing with her in a way she does not want. She's pretty fair about it; she just likes her space. She will bring it to you...like, chase your a$$ down and hammer you...if she is teased (I found this out the hard way and have scars on my arms) although she is very tolerant of the boys. Everybody in my house understands live and let live. It's a good rule.

Yep, blue eyes. Usually when I pick her up (assuming I brace myself and left with my legs) she'll tolerate for a short bit...if Annie is around I'll get raked pretty good. She's a weird cat in that she's very aloof (not a cuddler) but likes to be near us and gets bad seperation anxiety (I guess Siamese do this?). Likes to have a nice grand mal seizure if severe stressors are introduced in the house (I think the boys rated one each, Annie two or three). Not one you want in a Ragdoll breeding program.  She's also figured out Annie's reach through the baby gates and will stay just beyond that and paw at the air at Annie and basically drive my dog insane. Damn cat. :lol:


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

I've used nail caps for smaller therapy dogs and dogs that will "paws up" on someone's lap or bed for the sake of their skin. No matter how much I trimmed and filed the nails, they always had a sharp spot.
http://www.softpaws.net/
That's what I use. They're really easy to put on.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Sarah Hall said:


> I've used nail caps for smaller therapy dogs and dogs that will "paws up" on someone's lap or bed for the sake of their skin. No matter how much I trimmed and filed the nails, they always had a sharp spot.
> http://www.softpaws.net/
> That's what I use. They're really easy to put on.


Thanks, Sarah! Those are exactly what I used for the cat, only they called them Soft Claws, I think (just glued on).

Woody, that kitty ain't no Ragdoll. Ragdolls are supposedly mixed with Siamese so maybe that's how your kitty got her markings? She's pretty at any rate!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Sarah Hall said:


> I wish declawing was illegal here. It's really a disgusting thing to do. Believe me, I've helped with quite a few declaws as a tech, so I know all the different ways it's done, but cutting off the first digit of an animal's little toes is just gross.


       

Please tell me I don´t understand the english...
Are you telling that cats in US haven´t have nails/claws?!?!? And that isn´t illegal..... :roll: :roll: 
I think this is animalabuse and therefore punishable here in the Netherlands...same as removing the big teeth or the voice of dogs.....


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Sarah Hall said:


> I wish declawing was illegal here. It's really a disgusting thing to do. Believe me, I've helped with quite a few declaws as a tech, so I know all the different ways it's done, but cutting off the first digit of an animal's little toes is just gross.


      

please tell me I don´t understand the english writing...

ARe you saying that cats don´t have their nails???????
That is for sure animall abuse here in holland and therefor punishable :roll: Same thing as removing the voice of a dog or their big teeth :?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Sarah Hall said:
> 
> 
> > I wish declawing was illegal here. It's really a disgusting thing to do. Believe me, I've helped with quite a few declaws as a tech, so I know all the different ways it's done, but cutting off the first digit of an animal's little toes is just gross.
> ...



Yes, it is very common practice in the US to declaw cats. And it's brutal and dangerous to the cats. Illegal everywhere in Europe, right?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Sarah Hall said:


> I know it's off-topic, but you did ask for help with the kitty: How old is the cat? My mom's cat, Shadow, (mine when I was living there) is 18 and is pretty big (coming down slowly from a diet), but when he was 16 he was very obese (24 lbs) and was diagnosed with feline diabetes. This can happen when cats are overweight (like humans) and can make it quite hard to get them to lose weight because you have to make sure all their levels are ok. Normally, this means taking them to the vet every week to get glucose test, however I'm a vet tech so I just draw a little bit of his blood and test it on a glucose tester that was made for humans. Now Shadow is about 13lbs, and I don't think we'll get him lower than that (still has that pooch cats get when they get fat).
> Edited to add: Try to run by your vet and pick up a perscription food called Feline DM (Diabetics Managment). It's a good, low-fat diet for larger cats (and dogs, sometimes). Or you can feed raw  (that's what Shadow eats)


Missed this post earlier.

Funny you should mention that, I know in the back of my head she's probably diabetic. Kind of dreading that because you probably remember my situation (the toddler's diabetic). It's some kind of mental block I have...needless to say I am pretty handy with the lancet and syringes on unwilling victims.  What a PITA diabetes is, I know it would be a smaller deal for cats, but ugh. I get sick of looking at blood (and buckets of syringes before our kid went on the pump) as it is. Good think I have the leather welding gloves, Gracie will not put up with this gently. :lol:

I actually think the Evo Cat would be good? Low sugar high protein content? As close to raw as kibble will get? And that really is all she eats.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Sarah Hall said:
> 
> 
> > I wish declawing was illegal here. It's really a disgusting thing to do. Believe me, I've helped with quite a few declaws as a tech, so I know all the different ways it's done, but cutting off the first digit of an animal's little toes is just gross.
> ...


Selena, many cats in the United States are "declawed." They have their claws surgically removed by a veterinarian under general anesthetic. I'm not sure of hte exact procedure, but I, too, think it's horribly cruel. My parents were on me to have my kitty declawed and would just shake my head and tell them it's illegal in Germany LOL. My aunt and uncle have her now and one of the conditions was that they NEVER declaw her. If they so much as scheduled the appt I'd drive the 7 hrs to Cincinnati to get her!


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

Do you want to know the actual procedure? (I can make it short and simple, or tell you in detail)
JK, I'm sure you really don't want to know. For some, ignorance is bliss. I wish I was still ignorant about the procedure :|


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

One of my cats is front paw declawed. All the rest of my critters have their claws. We keep softclaws on Spook, the other cat, and I have some for the dogs too, but I've only ever used them once with Gypsy when we were testing for her to be a therapy dog. She failed.  Long story. 

I think they do help the dog to 'hold on' on slippery floors, and can reduce the chances of the dog 'spinning out' and falling, which might aggravate joint problems. They also do the same as cat softclaws, and keep the nails from scratching things. 

Stacia, what size would you need for Andi? If the ones I have are the right size, I wouldn't mind sending them or bringing them to you at a discounted price. PM or call me if you're interested. They are the black ones.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Selena van Leeuwen said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah Hall said:
> ...


For sure here in Holland, and Stacia says its in Germany too.
I have never heard it before, glad to, only reason I can imagine to do it is for a medical reason (if there could be one), but I suppose people don´t want to be schratched and thats why it is done?


Sorry to say so: Sometimes i getting to think Americans are insane...


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onychectomy


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

Here are the top 5 reasons I've heard for declawing cats, listed from least to most popular:

5.Getting a deal on declaw/spay (neuter) combo
4.Danger to owner/guests
3.Danger to children/other pets
2.The wife said so :roll: 
1.Scratching furniture

The worst thing, is that I recently saw a vet practice that offered declawing for dogs. No, not just the dews, ALL FOUR FEET!


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## Jamie Bodeutsch (Apr 23, 2006)

> The worst thing, is that I recently saw a vet practice that offered declawing for dogs. No, not just the dews, ALL FOUR FEET!


That's horrible. Talk about a lazy owner who would chose to put their dog through a surgery instead of training the dog. I think if my Vet offered such a thing I would tell him off then go and find a better Vet :!: :!: :twisted: 

~Jamie


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

Needless to say, I won't bring my animals there any time soon. If you don't want something that has claws/nails, get a fish, IMO.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Dews okay...they often hurt themselves on the dews. 
Neutering/Spaying, although my personal choice is an intact animal, okay...not to early though. I´ve heard 3-4 mo in US and that´s to young IMO, after the first heat or around a years sounds better.
The soft caps etc...you can train a cat to :roll: ...but okay its better than the alternative.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Dews okay...they often hurt themselves on the dews.
> Neutering/Spaying, although my personal choice is an intact animal, okay...not to early though. I´ve heard 3-4 mo in US and that´s to young IMO, after the first heat or around a years sounds better.
> The soft caps etc...you can train a cat to :roll: ...but okay its better than the alternative.


Selena we used the nail caps because our cat was NOT trainable. Nothing worked with her: not water spraying, loud noises, verbal corrections. I got to the point where I'd remove her from teh situation and crate her! But if she wore those caps, she wouldn't even TRY to scratch any longer and when they grew off (as they do in 3-4 weeks) she'd still not try for the first week or so they were off. It was preferable to me than having my furniture and skin dug up  .

The only reason I would consider nail caps for Andi is for use during therapy visits. Therapy dogs often visit people who are frail, dying, in bad health. These people tend to have very thin, easily damaged skin. The nail caps help to prevent any accidents during interaction with the dog. Since I would never 100% be able to say that my dog won't put her paw on someone's arm or lap, I'd feel safer putting the caps on before doing the visits. Otherwise, my dogs don't wear the caps, either.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

Selena, there are places down here that will spay/neuter at 8-9 weeks old! All of my animals have been intact until at LEAST 9 months, and then they were spayed/neutered at my discretion. Carbon, of course, is NOT going to be neutered unless some health problem comes up. He's the only one, besides the other GSD I owned (long story), that I plan keeping intact because I want to breed him if he's suitable at 2 years of age.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

My vet tried to talk me into neutering Cujo, they gave up now lol.

Declawing dogs??? I thought it was mean enough to do it to cats, but a dog?? How do they walk?? Ouch, wow, that's sick. Is it even legal??


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

This is a complicated issue (surgical alterations). Here in the US, declawing/speutering can mean the difference between finding a homeless pet a place to live or having it put down. I suppose in that sense I'd pick the lesser of two evils (having a cat declawed, performing an early spay).

The truth of hte matter is that Americans are irresponsile with their pets! They allow them to breed indiscriminately and then dump the progeny at shelters to become the State's problem. They don't maintain their animals, don't train them, and and don't attend to them. They want quick fixes (don't trian the cat not to scratch furniture, just have the claws removed). So getting homes for these animals often means resorting to less-than-desirable measures.

I guess my point is that I'd rather see these animals altered than euthanized...and in a perfect world I'd rather see most pet owners be denied pet ownership all together!


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> My vet tried to talk me into neutering Cujo, they gave up now lol.
> 
> Declawing dogs??? I thought it was mean enough to do it to cats, but a dog?? How do they walk?? Ouch, wow, that's sick. Is it even legal??


Nope, technically it's not illegal. I agree it's sick, and should be illegal. I guess they would walk the same as cats, except they'd never be able to run, they'd just fall flat on their faces. I believe this practice began with small breeds that are always up on their owner's laps, and has now expanded to any breed.
Why did they want you to neuter Cujo?!?!?


Stacia Porter said:


> I guess my point is that I'd rather see these animals altered than euthanized


I agree totally. The only animals that I leave intact are purebred dogs (such as Carbon and the Border Collie I had, Syder). Cats are always spayed/neutered, but I never declaw. I oversaw the spay/neuter of many rescue cats and dogs (since the vet rarely actually does these surgeries, and if he does, he just snips it out, then we do the rest), and the only reason I didn't feel guilty is because these animals were depending on this surgery to go to new homes.
As far as declawing, there are many places that are taking a step in the right direction. Many humane societies & rescues are making it a breach of adoption contract to have a cat declawed. The Cat Fancier's Association (the purebred cat world's AKC) is now not allowing declawed cats to be shown or bred. I think it should just be made illegal, and everyone that does want it done should have a toe removed before the animal's surgery and see if they like that! :twisted:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Sarah Hall said:


> Why did they want you to neuter Cujo?!?!?


Because it's their job.... it starts with the percentages... reduces aggression 95% reduces marking 98% reduces dominance reduces this that n the other X% bla bla bla I don't remember the numbers or their speach... when he was a pup I told em "I'll think about it", 2 or 3 vet visits after that they said "did you give it any more thought?" or "you decided not to neuter right?" *hint hint* LOL. They make money from it so they push it. I love my vet, they are awesome to me, but they push all the typical vet type stuff... they haven't done this in a year or so though.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

I guessed that's what it was. I remember when I worked at a clinic over on Silver Star Rd. I looked at the cost of the surgery and the actual cost of the supplies, and I was wondering why they weren't paying me more! The supplies were about $4-5 for a neuter, maybe $7-10 for a spay. The cost of the neuter was $145, and the cost of the spay was $205, so this means that they were making $140 in 20 mins for a neuter, and at the least $195 for a spay in 30 mins. I wish I could make that kind of money! I used to go to Aloma Jancy Animal Hospital because he's been in practice for longer than I've been alive, and he's still got the morals of a good, old-fashioned farm vet. Doesn't do anything that isn't necessary, doesn't charge outrageous amounts for services, etc. I also liked that I could schedule an appointment at 9pm on a Sunday if my dog was sick, and didn't have to pay VECs crazy fees!
Cujo's too good of a dog not to get at least one litter out of, IMO.


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