# Color Matters



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Does anyone feel that color matters when it comes to how well a puppy learns? Lighter eyes and coat some say make for weaker puppies, the darker the pigment then the stronger the drives and limited learning issues.

I have been told that white Border Collies can't work sheep b/c sheep will not respect them. Funny the memo never came to the Katahdins my white BC worked! They still found a way to avoid her...


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## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

I think that it matters for some breeds don't know for sure but I have noticed that the Aussies many of the red tri colours have good herding abilitys,and are more aggresive than the other colors,

and in the gsd many of the black and tan more of them have exstreme drive than many of the sabels but just a guess:mrgreen:
and something I have noticed


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

If being bred for work then I don't think it matters. As an example:

My grandfather has kept hunting labs for decades, and he explained to me once that most good labs you see in the field are black. But that is because black is the dominant coat color in labs. So... if you go to pick out a lab puppy from two quality parents and some puppies happen to be yellow or chocolate, then it's no big deal. But many yellows and chocolates have been bred for color and not purely performance.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

milder batmusen said:


> I think that it matters for some breeds don't know for sure but I have noticed that the Aussies many of the red tri colours have good herding abilitys,and are more aggresive than the other colors,


 
Ive had and worked many a black tri and blue merle Aussies that were fantastic. My aunt had a red tri named Lady that didn't have it in her to work, at all. If the dog works, it works. Black, white, or friggin purple.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

joby becker said:


> :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:


=d>=d>=d>=d>=d>


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

the Russians did an experiment with foxes. they found that the more white in the foxes coat the more docile , and dog like they became.. I think color could matter.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Timothy Saunders said:


> the Russians did an experiment with foxes. they found that the more white in the foxes coat the more docile , and dog like they became.. I think color could matter.


in the 1990's the Spaniards did a study on the presa canario, the ones with white socks, collars, or more white, were better for man work.....then they were slowly omitted from the gene pool.....?????

they were not desirable for the the show standard..


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Timothy Saunders said:


> the Russians did an experiment with foxes. they found that the more white in the foxes coat the more docile , and dog like they became.. I think color could matter.


No, that's not what they found. They found the more docile the fox, the more piebalding in the coat as they selected specifically for docility and no other trait. Subtle but important difference.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The red cocker spaniel is more prone to rage syndrome then any other color......but who gives a crap about cocker spaniels. There all nucking futs!


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

You'll see color association trends with certain behaviors, because coding instructions on the chromosome are actually closely located to one another. When dna gets broken down and reshuffled (recombination process), it tends to break apart in very "usual" spots, so that two seemingly different traits will often be passed together. This is what is meant by "genetically linked".

So, in breed differences, you'll probably some things associated in one breed, that isn't true of another. Might be that two comparing breeds have been separately distinct long enough to have gained differently mutated characteristics for that particular chromosome loci.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I have heard the same with Labs, black were easy to train and better in the field. Chocolates were the bottom feeders!


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## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

Brian McQuain said:


> Ive had and worked many a black tri and blue merle Aussies that were fantastic. My aunt had a red tri named Lady that didn't have it in her to work, at all. If the dog works, it works. Black, white, or friggin purple.


I never sais that other aussies can't work I just wrote that I have seen alot more red tri have more herding instincts than the other,not that the other don't or cant work as good as a red one



Timothy Saunders said:


> the Russians did an experiment with foxes. they found that the more white in the foxes coat the more docile , and dog like they became..* I think color could matter.*




I do agree that color and genes coukd matter more than we think\\/


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

I was at an ASCA trial this weekend(the Working Australian Shepherd Club of Nevada put it on)...didn't see many red tri's do very well...


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## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

I have a friend who breeds malamutes and she says that the red/white ones are very prone to aggression.

And personally I have never met a white german shepherd that wasn't a nervous wreck.


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## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

Brian McQuain said:


> I was at an ASCA trial this weekend(the Working Australian Shepherd Club of Nevada put it on)...didn't see many red tri's do very well...


Well maybe Im not right 
just and observation in Denmark.:mrgreen:

still I think that color can mean something more than just a color:wink:


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## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

:mrgreen:


Tanith Wheeler said:


> I have a friend who breeds malamutes and she says that the red/white ones are very prone to aggression.
> 
> *And personally I have never met a white german shepherd that wasn't a nervous wreck.*




I must agree ,
many of the white shepherds I've seen to have the nervous personality


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Tanith Wheeler said:


> I have a friend who breeds malamutes and she says that the red/white ones are very prone to aggression.
> 
> And personally I have never met a white german shepherd that wasn't a nervous wreck.


 My oh my is that true!
The few I have seen are "nice" pets and bags of pooh!:-$


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## Ellen Piepers (Nov 6, 2008)

Tanith Wheeler said:


> And personally I have never met a white german shepherd that wasn't a nervous wreck.


I have :mrgreen:

But I've understood that the breeder of that one is known for "a-typical" open, stable dogs when compared to what you see most.

(doesn't mean that I'd try KNPV with the dog though, I'll pick my pup elsewhere ;-) )


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

While maybe not true of my breed as a whole, with the family of dogs Im playing with, there is a higher percentage (note percentage here not "all") in the ones with more color tending to have higher defense/ nerve and also tend to be more "dirty" as in hygiene... :evil:. Moreso than color however, I tend to find certain phenotypes within this bunch pull the better dogs. Luckily for me, it happens to be the better looking ones ... Then again the coat pattern links to the physical so maybe less to do with the actual color?

t


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

I've noticed the same thing with white GSDs myself.. I think Daryl made the best point regarding DNA characteristics


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I have heard the same with Labs, black were easy to train and better in the field. Chocolates were the bottom feeders!


Funny, I heard the opposite. 
Chocolates used to be culled by show people as it was an undesirable colour until it came into fashion and chocolates only survived in hunting circles where the dog's ability mattered more then looks. Hence chocolate labs tend to be more energetic and hard to handle being more like work dogs vs show dogs. When chocolates came into fashion the only way to get one at first was to get one from the working people.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I have heard the same with Labs, black were easy to train and better in the field. Chocolates were the bottom feeders!


Actually just the other night they had a program on our TV called AFP, which follows the Australian Federal Police around. They were filming their "Currency" detection dog training guys as they were training new dogs they got in, which are all Labs. One was a chocolate. They commented that for some reason they never had a chocolate to ever pass their program. All the dogs came through the same Customs breeding program. The chocolate didnt end up passing.

I dont know wether this means much, but in the Australian Carpet Pythons there is a sub species called the Darwin Python. It is a pretty aggressive type of carpet compared to most other ones. They came across an Albino Darwin and have bred it to produce alot of Albino Darwins now. It is a known fact that while the normal coloured Darwins are generally all aggressive, the Albinos are nearly always docile and calm.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

My jungle carpet is pretty mellow...for a carpet. :wink: I have used her many times as an educational animal and gotten a few folks over their fear of snakes with her (even the ones that don't like snakes say she's beautiful). But I still use the snake hook to take her out of her cage.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> My jungle carpet is pretty mellow...for a carpet. :wink: I have used her many times as an educational animal and gotten a few folks over their fear of snakes with her (even the ones that don't like snakes say she's beautiful). But I still use the snake hook to take her out of her cage.


Different locale carpets have different characters, for the main. Jungles and Darwins are considered the most aggressive, while Murray-Darlings are considered the least. Obvioulsy you get tame Jungles and snappy Murrays, but there is enough of each to prove the streotype.
I dont have any Jungles or Darwins but I have 2 Murrays, 3 Bredlis, 2 Flinders Rangers and 1 St Francis Island Carpets. All my carpets are pretty good to handle and you really only get bitten as an accidential feeding response.
I also have 4 Black heads and 2 Womas.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> My jungle carpet is pretty mellow...for a carpet. :wink:


I don't know why but that cracked me up. Probably because it reminded me of that time that Jeff asked Alice (I think) if her carpet matched her drapes and here you are with your jungle carpet :-D I would have never figured you for that Maren. You go girl!

Yeah, I know, someone let Naughty Nicole out again.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Christopher Jones said:


> Different locale carpets have different characters, for the main. Jungles and Darwins are considered the most aggressive, while Murray-Darlings are considered the least. Obvioulsy you get tame Jungles and snappy Murrays, but there is enough of each to prove the streotype.
> I dont have any Jungles or Darwins but I have 2 Murrays, 3 Bredlis, 2 Flinders Rangers and 1 St Francis Island Carpets. All my carpets are pretty good to handle and you really only get bitten as an accidential feeding response.
> I also have 4 Black heads and 2 Womas.


I am so jealous, you Aussies have the best herps. I want a black head so bad...they're like $3000 USD in the States. :sad:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> I don't know why but that cracked me up. Probably because it reminded me of that time that Jeff asked Alice (I think) if her carpet matched her drapes and here you are with your jungle carpet :-D I would have never figured you for that Maren. You go girl!
> 
> Yeah, I know, someone let Naughty Nicole out again.


For pictures of my wild and crazy jungle carpet, check it out here!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=38283371&l=e4041e7c25&id=15907030
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=35129315&l=9dff61fed5&id=15907030

:-o8-[:---);-)


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> For pictures of my wild and crazy jungle carpet, check it out here!
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=38283371&l=e4041e7c25&id=15907030
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=35129315&l=9dff61fed5&id=15907030
> ...


 Thats a high quality Jungle you have. Really nice colour, which is the frustrating things with them. No guarentees of good colour.
Blackheads are down to as little as $300 here now. Herp prices have dropped alot in the last few years. 
But Blackheads are a really interesting python to own. They dont have the variance in characters that carpets have. Nearly every BHP acts the same way. They are quite cage proud and will put a good defensive show on when you go near them, and if you touch them when they dont know your there and they jump out of their skins. But once you have grabbed them and are holding them they switch to dog tame. Put them down for 5 seconds and they are back to defensive again. 
They also tend to head butt you rather than bite, although they are pretty crazy when they think a rat is on the cards. They are also very courios animals and watch you when they are in your view. They remind me of a horses character kinda.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I have heard the same with Labs, black were easy to train and better in the field. Chocolates were the bottom feeders!


But how many were you able to observe. For me this is no better than hearsay. 

It's like with the Cocker Spaniels - one black cocker started a fight with a small child at the school I attended.

One, many years later, tried to get my throat whilst I was trying to "reason" with him, but I was quciker.

There are thousands of breeds, be careful what you say. I have heard that the golden cockers have a rage syndrome, but I have never met one. However that doesn't say much!

Also, the "oh so peaceful" Golden Retrievers have a "nasty strain" apparently a Belgian one.

All I can say is, be careful what you report!!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

My former vet is BIG in the Lab stuff, told me I wouldn't like the Chessie pups when I got them. He was right! I think broad-brushed statememts can be bad, but I have seen many more blacks in the real working field than any other color. What you do with them really matters:-k


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've got Labs in all three colors, currently working. A Chocolate Lab, one of mine, placed 3rd at the USPCA Nationals when it was held in Cookeville TN. He was 12 at the time. If the dog passes the test I give them, they'll are generally going to finish the course. I've never eliminated a yellow lab, that I picked to train. If they pass my acceptance test though, I'd take the dog if it had all three colors. ha ha.

DFrost


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Uggh. Cockers. My grandfather had a black one who loved to attack me at every chance she got. I had a golden cocker lock jaw on my nipple at a vet office I worked in years ago. I stood up and the bastard was hanging off my friggin nipple.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

That's what I'm trying to say, you've all had one, at the most two, of the "dreaded" colours in each breed!!!

How can you say all golden cockers are amiss? It may be true, but then, compared with the number of these and the number of golden retrievers who are supposed to have a "nasty" strain, I'd say be careful of what you spout!!

It's a bit off topic I admit, but a lot on here are ready to damn the put bulls*, regardless of colour*.

Sit back and think a bit before you type something that can damage a breed.

After all, we all have various breeds and should stick togetherr - it might be that "your" negative remarks on a breed set the fire alight and you wouldn't want that would you, or would you:smile:


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