# Mario Verslype in Ohio, June 14-18



## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

www.posidog.com/seminars








*June 14-15-16: All 3 Phases IPO*

*Lecture/Video + Working
Limited to 12 Working Spots*

*Working $500
Audit $300*

Mario will lecture on his methods and coach teams for the Tracking, Obedience and Protection phases of IPO/Schutzhund. Mario is a highly accomplished trainer and competitor, with famous dogs such as Stoned van de Duvetorre, Yagus van de Duvetorre, and now Hasco van de Duvetorre. Mario is now 5 times World Champion!

*June 17-18: Problem Solving Workshop IPO*

*Limited to 8 Working Spots*

*Working $400
Audit $200*

Mario’s success with Hasco van de Duvetorre is gaining a great deal of attention, partly because Hasco has been trained without the standard compulsive tools and methods. Mario’s winning performances with Hasco are stretching what is thought of as possible, and we are thrilled to have him come and share his ideas and innovations.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Damn, if only I'd gotten those Power Ball numbers :-(
Watching videos of Yagus and Mario working together is like watching art in motion. Good Luck with the seminar


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Damn, if only I'd gotten those Power Ball numbers :-(



Ditto!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

That price is ridiculous.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> That price is ridiculous.


 
You IPO folks must be pinky sticking out while drinking tea, rich...haha. I'd pay that for professional development if I was an IPO guy.. Sounds like he is at the top of his game.

World Champions time is valuable.

He's only making 2000 a day, ish, minus his plane tickets and lodging and food....What's wrong with that?


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Dave Colborn said:


> You IPO folks must be pinky sticking out while drinking tea, rich...haha. I'd pay that for professional development if I was an IPO guy.. Sounds like he is at the top of his game.
> 
> World Champions time is valuable.
> 
> He's only making 2000 a day, ish, minus his plane tickets and lodging and food....What's wrong with that?


I don't think he's paying for anything. He's getting paid to come out. I'm a struggling 24 year old, just to go watch without my dog is half of what I make a week and that doesn't include airfare and lodging. 

That's wild.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> I'm a struggling 24 year old, just to go watch without my dog is half of what I make a week and that doesn't include airfare and lodging.


I get that. 

But what we can pay for travel, etc., doesn't dictate what this is worth.

I'd go in a heartbeat if I could. I WOULD go if it was closer.  


_
".... Watching videos of Yagus and Mario working together is like watching art in motion."_

ETA
Just watched another one and got more envious than I was of those who will attend.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Everything is more expensive (and I have less money :-( )
Mario is worth whatever he can get. If the working spots fill at $500? Then that's what he is worth. Look around, everyone wants $150/day for a working spot and this guy is 5x WORLD
Champion. He has to be worth more then someone who won a Regional and placed in the top 10 at the AWDF ?


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I get that.
> 
> But what we can pay for travel, etc., doesn't dictate what this is worth.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it dictates his worth. I'm saying if you really want to help people you should make it possible for them to attend.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> I'm not saying it dictates his worth. I'm saying if you really want to help people you should
> make it possible for them to attend.



Really? Is that how you'd set your salary for a job? 

Not me. :lol:

That's his work. I really like my work, I think/hope it helps people, but I need to be paid. 

Who decides what's a "possible to attend" fee? He may think that a whole lot of people can pay $200. In fact, I think a whole lot of people can pay $200. 

I get it that it would be nice if the cream of the crop was also in the give-it-away business, but it doesn't work like that for much else. 

All JMO, of course.



I still sure would like to go. :-|


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Notice the limited/low number of working spots. We tried to price this seminar as fairly as possible while not overbooking, so that every spot gets plenty of time. I totally get that it is a lot of money, and cost is a relevant factor when deciding to host such events. Cheers!

There are still working spots open for Friday-Sunday, and there is a waiting list for Monday-Tuesday working spots in case of cancellations. Audit spots (also limited) are open for all dates.

www.posidog.com/seminars


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

If I could afford it, I would absolutely go! 

Mario's insight and knowledge is worth every cent.. not often you get the opportunity to work with someone like him.


aren't Ivan's seminars similarly priced? People don't seem to bat an eyelash at that.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Really? Is that how you'd set your salary for a job?
> 
> Not me. :lol:
> 
> ...


I obviously won't be giving any seminars... But I guess I don't see it as a job. If I'm going to hold a seminar so people can learn, I'm not going to do it to make money. I guess this just goes into why I won't pay anyone to work my dog. Edgar Scherkl has done similar (if not more) winning of championships and he doesn't charge close to that. Just me I guess.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Britney Pelletier said:


> aren't Ivan's seminars similarly priced?


Not even close. I have never heard of anyone charging this much for an IPO seminar.

Anyway the number of championships won means almost nothing in comparison to the persons ability to *teach you* how to win championships.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> But I guess I don't see it as a job. If I'm going to hold a seminar so people can learn, I'm
> not going to do it to make money. .


I've never been to a worthwhile free seminar in any venue, any topic, any area of endeavor. I can dream, though. :-D

And I do see it as a job, if that's what the person does for a living.

I'm not saying that the most useful to me always cost the most (or the inverse, either) ..... just that it does cost, just like the other kinds of classes and seminars I attend cost. 



I get what Christopher is saying too, but that's a whole other thing to me, whether the most talented can always convey the know-how .....


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> Not even close. I have never heard of anyone charging this much for an IPO seminar.
> 
> Anyway the number of championships won means almost nothing in comparison to the persons ability to *teach you* how to win championships.


Really, when was the last Ivan seminar you attended? Several years ago he was getting $150+/day for a working spot. Mario is asking ~$175/day. If it's all about everyone giving back to the sport? How many free tracking seminars have you given lately and I don't just mean to people you train with?
The big problem with Balabanov seminars is inconsistency.
I've been to an Ivan seminar that was the best I ever attended and then I've been to one where clearly didn't want to be there
and told people that had PAID for working spots to "read the book" and "study the DVD's"


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I've never been to a worthwhile free seminar in any venue, any topic, any area of endeavor. I can dream, though. :-D
> 
> And I do see it as a job, if that's what the person does for a living.
> 
> ...


Oh I don't think they should be free! Though that would be nice, lol. I think training helper work should be free but I have no problem with charging for seminars. I just think this is an insane amount of money. Even the most expensive IPO seminars aren't near that much. Maybe half that at most.

When our club had seminars we only paid $50 to spectate, and non-members weren't much more. Entries with dogs weren't much above that either.

Just never seen it!


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> The big problem with Balabanov seminars is inconsistency.
> I've been to an Ivan seminar that was the best I ever attended and then I've been to one where clearly didn't want to be there
> and told people that had PAID for working spots to "read the book" and "study the DVD's"


That's my biggest fear every time I consider a seminar. I'm broke and need to chose wisely!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> That's my biggest fear every time I consider a seminar. I'm broke and need to chose wisely!


That's why it makes more sense for me to buy a DVD where I can look at it multiple times and maybe even resell it and recoup some of my investment. With a seminar if you forget something you're SOL


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> That's why it makes more sense for me to buy a DVD where I can look at it multiple times and maybe even resell it and recoup some of my investment. With a seminar if you forget something you're SOL


Same here. There's also dog video rental websites that are awesome. WAY cheaper than buying the DVDs. I get one DVD at a time and it's only $11 a month. All I have to do is watch it and send it back. Like Netflix. But they have every dog video ever, including all the ME ones that are $65 a pop!

www.bowwowflix.com


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

That's interesting. A bit pathetic on my end but I have several hundred dollars worth of DVDs most of them I never watched or even opened. I don't watch TV much and that should have been my clue that ordering DVDs would not be a good investment. The only ones I watched all the way through was the Randy Hare series.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

If I read right ...3 days, all 3 phases per day for $500 working with a CH. What is is $165 a day, $55 something per phase. Not so unreasonable.. Not too many seminars include all three phases. Still have to consider car rental, hotel, food if you are traveling in for the seminar, which can and will get costly.

A couple of club member went to Michael Ellis sport clinic and that was $450 for two days, just OB and Protection. I think they were able to get two sessions a day. 

Would love to go, but family obligations have priority.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> I have several hundred dollars worth of DVDs most of them I never watched or even opened.



OTOH, I have some that I have watched parts of many times.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> That's interesting. A bit pathetic on my end but I have several hundred dollars worth of DVDs most of them I never watched or even opened. I don't watch TV much and that should have been my clue that ordering DVDs would not be a good investment. The only ones I watched all the way through was the Randy Hare series.


Time to sell the ones you don't watch anymore?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Time to sell the ones you don't watch anymore?


Who knows. I probably just need to invest my time differently in order to watch them.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> Who knows. I probably just need to invest my time differently in order to watch them.


I usually have one in the DVD, paused, so even with 10 spare minutes it needs only a quick click to watch some more.

Not the ideal way to watch them, no, but way better than not at all, after paying for them. 

I do have a few that I have watched (at least in part) several times.


Of course, maybe I wouldn't have to if I watched them "right" the first time. :lol:


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I usually have one in the DVD, paused, so even with 10 spare minutes it needs only a quick click to watch some more.
> 
> Not the ideal way to watch them, no, but way better than not at all, after paying for them.
> 
> ...


Ah, whatever works. I respond better to real time happenings, that much is true. The Randy Hare ones worked to bridge a gap I couldn't compensate for locally (nothing of that sort available at the time).

BTW to keep this on track, from the feedback I've seen on this seminar it would be one I'd be interested in attending. Not entirely practical though given how sporadic I have been able to participate in regular training with the club that I belong to.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Really, when was the last Ivan seminar you attended? Several years ago he was getting $150+/day for a working spot. Mario is asking ~$175/day. If it's all about everyone giving back to the sport? How many free tracking seminars have you given lately and I don't just mean to people you train with?


First off Thomas, I don't care what people charge for a seminar or any other non essential consumable. I care about what I have to pay. And that is too much money for me to pay for a seminar. If you or anyone else wants to pay it, that's great and I hope you get an excellent value for your money. 

Second, don't put the price of seminars on the presenters. In most cases the presenter charges X amount per day, set a cap on the number of working spots and take a cut of the auditing spots or something similar. So the presenter is not charging the attendees, the host is. And I don't begrudge them a dime either. They just won't be getting my dime.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Heads up!: Registration is again available and opened back up for two working spots June 14-16 (Friday-Sunday, IPO). There are still 5-10 audit spots open on each of the 5 event days.

Also, Axel Van der Borght (Belgian Ring trainer and decoy) will be flying over and assisting at the seminars. 

Cheers!


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Correction: just one June 14-16 working spot open...


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Congrats to the FMBB 2013 IPO Champions! Super Mario and Hasco did it again!

Just weeks away from seminar and we have 3 working spots currently open, and still many audit spots. There are some great trainers coming, and it will be a unique learning event. Also, Axel Van der Borght is coming with Mario from Belgium. There will be a few Ringsport folks attending, including Axel. 

www.posidog.org


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## Shade Whitesel (Aug 18, 2010)

I would and will pay this much to see a competitor with this many WORLD titles, this much consistency with 3 different dogs and who is coming to the US for the first time and likely the last! How many IPO malinois have Stoned in their pedigree?


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Shade Whitesel said:


> I would and will pay this much to see a competitor with this many WORLD titles, this much consistency with 3 different dogs and who is coming to the US for the first time and likely the last! How many IPO malinois have Stoned in their pedigree?


I can pay not too much more than this (plane ticket) and go hang out with him in Belgium


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Audit spots are $100 each day. Mario is the current 2x FMBB and current FCI IPO World Champion coming from Belgium with his friend/helper. I hope some others decide to register, as this event will be small and historic.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Almost time. We have one (1) three-day (IPO 3 phases) working spot open, and audit spots are still open for all 5 days.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> Oh I don't think they should be free! Though that would be nice, lol. I think training helper work should be free but I have no problem with charging for seminars. I just think this is an insane amount of money. Even the most expensive IPO seminars aren't near that much. Maybe half that at most.
> 
> When our club had seminars we only paid $50 to spectate, and non-members weren't much more. Entries with dogs weren't much above that either.
> 
> Just never seen it!


So, it was your club and as a member you paid fifty bucks. non-Members paid "more." Who was lecturing or teaching? Was it a 5x's world champion also? 

Yes. It costs money to invite a champion out to lecture/teach. He/she must be housed, fed, and paid for their knowledge, time, and teaching. Idk of many courses one can take for under that amount. I've paid up to $250 - $300 just to re-certify (one 8hr day) my advanced cardiac life support certification. This is no 5x world champion instructor either. I also like that there are only a limited amount of working spots open. This way, everyone gets sufficient work and/or instruction. 

I remember a few years back, I just couldn't afford an I. Balabanov seminar. The cost is still largely the same. It doesn't seem all that outrageous to me. If anyone can find a seminar w/ a champion instructing in the $200 dollar range. Please post it ASAP. I have a better paying job these days and if I can get the time off I'm going to see about getting out there for the seminar. 

I think the event is fairly priced. 

Me too, Connie. JMHO


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Wow, I wish I could go! This would be amazing. One day...one day...


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Smart ass comment


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## Jake Brandyberry (Jan 24, 2010)

How did the seminar go? Did Mario clear up whether or not he uses corrections?


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Mario is an open and thorough presenter. He clearly explained his training with Hasco. No compulsive training collars, but Mario does use social pressure as an early and effective punisher with Hasco. For instance, training any exercise he wants full attention and interrupts Hasco with a correction if his tail is moving, ear turns, etc (verbal, and even hands on). He uses corrections in that way, but it is still of course very impressive and important what that team have done. Also, Mario is very careful to reward perfect picture, and is impressively systematic. 

So, not all of Mario's methods are useful to me (as a clicker trainer), but most trainers would consider all of the corrections on his own dog to be extremely mild. He is a very experienced trainer and seminar presenter who says he has no qualms helping people's dogs where they are at with levels of compulsion he does not ever use with his own dog.

It was crazy that more IPO folks didn't go.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

And, to be clear, of course Hasco learned overwhelmingly by generous and thoughtful positive reinforcement, just clarifying he does use "corrections".


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Chad Byerly said:


> And, to be clear, of course Hasco learned overwhelmingly by generous and thoughtful positive reinforcement, just clarifying he does use "corrections".


Hopefully i will get to meet him and see him train in the next week before i come home!!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chad Byerly said:


> It was crazy that more IPO folks didn't go.




Chad, I think the price was too high. People told you this when you announced it. IPO people are a....shall we say "thrifty" group of people. Plus Malinois people are the most thrifty. Many GSD people won't come because he's a Malinois handler too.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chad Byerly said:


> And, to be clear, of course Hasco learned overwhelmingly by generous and thoughtful positive reinforcement, just clarifying he does use "corrections".



And this is what most of the people that are doing well in IPO are doing. NOBODY IS DOING WELL IN IPO THAT DOES NOT USE CORRECTIONS!!! 

I like the recognition of social pressure as a training tool. I have seen lot of people over the years that claimed to be purely positive that don't recognize that. Sure they don't use a pinch collar, but they emotionally kick the dog's ass. I think the social pressure can be far more stressful for the dog.


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## Jill Lyden (May 25, 2011)

I would have loved to attend, even to audit, but the gas to get there and cost of a hotel on top of the cost to attend made it prohibitively expensive. I'm sure I'd have learned a ton though.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Chad, I think the price was too high. People told you this when you announced it. IPO people are a....shall we say "thrifty" group of people. Plus Malinois people are the most thrifty. Many GSD people won't come because he's a Malinois handler too.


I understand folks can't make it to everything, and I understand budgeting. This was a reasonably priced event (cheaper than most famous sport presenters, coming over from Belgium, with a training helper..)..



Christopher Smith said:


> I like the recognition of social pressure ... they emotionally kick the dog's ass. I think the social pressure can be far more stressful for the dog.


I would not call Mario's training of Hasco emotionally kicking the dog's ass. Even when giving his corrections, they are a very subtle interruption of failure (tho more stressful than I personally like) within a training framework overwhelming filled with successes.  Much less stressful and much more effective than most "social pressure" I've seen by other great trainers.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

I think the term "social pressure" was not the most accurate to use. More to the point is catching lack of attention early with quick slaps and "hey!". Not so much facing a down or pressuring. My bad for using a term which doesn't accurately describe Mario's corrections in training.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

That paragraph was a meant in a general sense and not about Mario in particular.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chad Byerly said:


> I understand folks can't make it to everything, and I understand budgeting. This was a reasonably priced event (cheaper than most famous sport presenters, coming over from Belgium, with a training helper..)..


Ok, but are they doing IPO? I bet not. You see those guys are selling magic. Mario is selling results. Magic trumps results everytime. Mario told everyone to work hard and smart and get good results. I wasn't there, but that's what successful people say. Those other guys say buy these gadgets, press this button and win the Youtube World Championships. People can't resist magic.



> Much less stressful and much more effective than most "social pressure" I've seen by other great trainers.


How do you measure the effectiveness? How do you separate the effectiveness of his social pressure without incorporating the rest of the training?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't think price had much to do with attendance. IPO people spend shit tons of money. I think it had more to do with that your facility does not allow aversive tools or methods.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

James Downey said:


> I think it had more to do with that your facility does not allow aversive tools or methods.


That would be my guess as well. 

T


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

I know that was a definitely a factor for working spots, Jim, but I did ecpect more auditors. There was a lot of lecture... 

What would have been really special is if he'd been able to bring Hasco. It was nice to watch video on the big screen of him with Mario narrating, and it was enlightening to have him so clearly lay out his training plan with Hasco from 7 weeks onward... It would have been amazing to have seen such a strong and accomplished dog in person.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Chad what is Marios take on tracking on the imprinting etc


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Lots involved. Lots of notes were taken, not by me. I recommend attending a seminar somewhere sometime. There were gems according to trainers there who compete at a high level in tracking...


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

brad robert said:


> Chad what is Marios take on tracking on the imprinting etc


A friend was there and told me a bit of his tracking foundation work. This is third hand now, so maybe not a lot of helpful info because its really methodical and detailed and I'm just passing on what I can remember.

He uses scent pads starting with a square and an exact number of tiny bait pieces that he reduces in the next scent pad. Something like 25-24-23, etc.. He then at some point changes the scent pad shape to a circle and repeats the bait reduction, then a triangle. No flags on the scent pads.

The detail I found pretty interesting is he clicks for a deep sniffing nose, not when the pup is finding the bait, guides him off the scent pad to reward, and then back onto the pad to continue. Its a really step by step plan that goes on for months. I definitely would need detailed notes to keep it all straight.


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## Paul R. Konschak (Jun 10, 2010)

Christopher Smith said:


> Ok, but are they doing IPO? I bet not. You see those guys are selling magic. Mario is selling results. Magic trumps results everytime. Mario told everyone to work hard and smart and get good results. I wasn't there, but that's what successful people say. Those other guys say buy these gadgets, press this button and win the Youtube World Championships. People can't resist magic.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I wish I could find some magic that has great trial results. It would be a lot easier than working hard for years to obtain great trial results. :-D


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

He talks about some of the tracking here: http://www.schutzhund-training.net/interviews/MarioVerslijpe1.html

I find the interview very interesting since there are parallels to my training as well. 

T


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Britney Pelletier said:


> I can pay not too much more than this (plane ticket) and go hang out with him in Belgium



Let me know where you are getting your plane tickets!!! I did get to hang out with him on a training night and watched him work and heard some theory from him. I also got to hang out with another super ipo competitor and cut wood and talk dogs. I ALSO, and this was the high point, got to go to an all breed club that mainly has boxers and saw more boxers bite in one day than i have in my life. Definitely a good trip and experience at the tail end of a contract edd job. Home in a couple days!!

Oh, and hard work combined with smart training is where the magic is...


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> Oh, and hard work combined with smart training is where the magic is...


http://youtu.be/CF7OnW4XDck


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> http://youtu.be/CF7OnW4XDck


I have now heard it (paraphrased) from a top competitor. Therefore it is true....


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

This whole thread was made worthwhile by the 'Youtube World Championship' comment! :-D


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