# Another "vicious" dog gunned down...



## Claudia Chance Nicosia

"The officer ordered the dog to stop & when it didn't he shot & killed it" :roll:

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/new...nty-Yard-20101220-ap-sd?CMP=201012_emailshare


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Dumbass has his dog loose in the front yard. Dumbass cop shoots dumbass owners dog. Whole thing is stupid.


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## Shawn Reed

Claudia Chance Nicosia said:


> "The officer ordered the dog to stop & when it didn't he shot & killed it" :roll:
> 
> http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/new...nty-Yard-20101220-ap-sd?CMP=201012_emailshare


Ordered the dog to stop?? :-? What about pepper spray??? Seems similar to hunters who get "buck fever." Just sayin.........


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## Chad Byerly

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f18/leeds-law-enforcement-engaging-dogs-safely-18152/


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## eric squires

A vicious Golden? What a dumbass.


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## Stuart Stuart

I wonder if the people of Clayton County feel safer now.


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## Edward Egan

I'm sure they do, one less mean & vicous lab! What a fu*king moron! I hope he get's desk duty for 6 months. :roll::roll:](*,)


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## Chris McDonald

I don’t know if id blame the owners if there e-fence was working and the dog was just a barker and didn’t bite I think you should be able to let your dog lay on your front porch without having to worry about your local top cop shooting it


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## Tammy St. Louis

funny how it seems soo wrong cuz its a golden , you never here of this , but replace golden with pit bull , people would not care as much


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## Chris McDonald

Tammy St. Louis said:


> funny how it seems soo wrong cuz its a golden , you never here of this , but replace golden with pit bull , people would not care as much


Right, so where you headed with this?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

WHat a retard. How many Goldens have killed people ? LOL You cannot say the same about a pit bull.


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## Chris McDonald

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> WHat a retard. How many Goldens have killed people ? LOL You cannot say the same about a pit bull.


Thanks for getting that straight. There usually is a reason behind the stereotyping


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## Patrick Murray

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Dumbass has his dog loose in the front yard. Dumbass cop shoots dumbass owners dog. Whole thing is stupid.


I think Jeff summed it up perfectly here. Going forward, however, deputy Fife needs to be limited to only one bullet and it must be kept in his shirt pocket.


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## Tammy St. Louis

In canada, we h ave had ONE death by a pit bull , not sure how many by goldens , 

sterotyping is good,


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## Bob Scott

No fence! Dog running towards the cop, barking! Plus, I've never had to do his job!
Sorry but I'm not going to dis the cop for doing that.
The cop had no idea if he was going to get bit or not and his ability to read a dogs as well as......some of us would give me reason NOT to question his actions. 
I don't care what breed the dog was.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> WHat a retard. How many Goldens have killed people ? LOL You cannot say the same about a pit bull.


They might not have ever killed anyone, but they will bite if the conditions are right for them..


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## Patrick Murray

Bob Scott said:


> No fence! Dog running towards the cop, barking! Plus, I've never had to do his job!
> Sorry but I'm not going to dis the cop for doing that.
> The cop had no idea if he was going to get bit or not and his ability to read a dogs as well as......some of us would give me reason NOT to question his actions.
> I don't care what breed the dog was.


Could be, Bob. Of course, we'll never get the dog's side of the story. We never do. The story is always the same - a vicious, dog, frothing at the mouth and charging the officer was gunned down. The dog shouldn't have been loose and it's certainly possible that the dog was as dangerous as described...but I doubt it. Tell the old ladies to make sure to hold on to Fifi lest she get blasted into oblivion too.


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## Al Curbow

Bob Scott said:


> No fence! Dog running towards the cop, barking! Plus, I've never had to do his job!
> Sorry but I'm not going to dis the cop for doing that.
> The cop had no idea if he was going to get bit or not and his ability to read a dogs as well as......some of us would give me reason NOT to question his actions.
> I don't care what breed the dog was.


Yeah Bob, my dog can't lay on my porch in my yard and bark at a stranger, of course it's okay, are you serious? What the **** has happened to us Americans? We really are becoming sheeple 

"some of us would give me reason NOT to question his actions" He has a baton Bob, it's a golden...... 

Say a cop is in your backyard looking for a bad guy, he can't tell if the gate is closed on your kennel, your dogs bark and charge the fence, kinda dark, cop shoots your dogs because it was dark and he couldn't tell if he was in danger or not. You still think it's okay? Hey, don't question it whatever you do, that would be dissing him......


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## James Idi

> No fence! Dog running towards the cop, barking!


When I was a paper boy and all of 120 lbs back in the day of grade school, I somehow managed to survive "vicious" dog attacks with a well placed kick. I would imagine a full grown cop would be able to do the same without resorting to his service pistol.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

The cop was a chick. LOL I guess Bob is dissing "her" by calling "her" a "him". 

Reading comprehension is so vital to having a clue. 

Ever see the vid where the fat chick cop discharges her weapon with an officer in front of her and the suspect is in cuffs on the ground ? LOL 

SSDD


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## Ashley Campbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Itfr_V424

Like this cop...dog made it to him and he booted it, then tased it later. 

But the end of it sucks that they gave that dog back to it's idiot owner.


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## Percy Longfellow

The female officer is a modern day brown-shirt.

These incidents are part and parcel of "the process" to which are none are immune, but of which most are ignorant.

I wish more people recognized the bigger picture.

Yours,

P.Milton Longfellow
Master yachtsman


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## Jennifer Coulter

Percy Longfellow said:


> The female officer is a modern day brown-shirt.
> 
> These incidents are part and parcel of "the process" to which are none are immune, but of which most are ignorant.
> 
> I wish more people recognized the bigger picture.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> P.Milton Longfellow
> Master yachtsman


Stupid facists. I always thought yatchtsmen were good friends of the facists, maybe that is why you can so clearly see what is going on here?

I think you might be able to contribute a lot to this forum and should stick around


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## Don Turnipseed

Edward Egan said:


> I'm sure they do, one less mean & vicous lab! What a fu*king moron! I hope he get's desk duty for 6 months. :roll::roll:](*,)


He should lose his job. He has no business carrying a gun.


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## Thomas Barriano

"Police Capt. Tina Daniel the officer was on foot patrol Saturday when the dog jumped off its porch, started barking and ran toward the officer."

The articles author must have gradjeated at the top of her class or the PD is using Police Captains for foot patrol? 
The first paragraph in the article said "he shot the dog"


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## Geoff Empey

I read the article and outside the innocent dog getting whacked for doing what dogs do and the obvious loss for dog's owners. The whole scenario made me laugh everything about the article points that the officer is a total dumbass. Use your baton, pepper spray or taze the dog but pop a cap in it's ass? Harsh harsh harsh pure stupidity and ignorance from what it looks from this officer.


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## Thomas Barriano

Percy Longfellow said:


> The female officer is a modern day brown-shirt.
> 
> These incidents are part and parcel of "the process" to which are none are immune, but of which most are ignorant.
> 
> I wish more people recognized the bigger picture.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> P.Milton Longfellow
> Master yachtsman


That may be true, but the officer that shot the dog was MALE
his commanding officer was the female. (which is a whole other story)

Percy Milton Longfellow is a Senior partner in an LA Law Firm
has he taken an interest in Working Dogs OR is some nameless
person using his identity? ;-0


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## Geoff Empey

Thomas Barriano said:


> That may be true, but the officer that shot the dog was MALE
> his commanding officer was the female. (which is a whole other story)
> 
> Percy Milton Longfellow is a Senior partner in an LA Law Firm
> has he taken an interest in Working Dogs OR is some nameless
> person using his identity? ;-0


Isn't Percy Ben Dover's and Phil McCracken's cousin?


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## Thomas Barriano

Geoff Empey said:


> Isn't Percy Ben Dover's and Phil McCracken's cousin?


Geoff,

Percy Milton Longfellow is an actual LA Lawyer, but I kind of doubt that he's on the WDF


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## kristin tresidder

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> WHat a retard. How many Goldens have killed people ? LOL You cannot say the same about a pit bull.


It depresses me when I hear dumb shit like this from people that are both otherwise very intelligent and also happen to be working dog people - who of all people should know better.


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## Patrick Murray

kristin tresidder said:


> It depresses me when I hear dumb shit like this from people that are both otherwise very intelligent and also happen to be working dog people - who of all people should know better.


What is erroneous about his statement?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: It depresses me when I hear dumb shit like this from people that are both otherwise very intelligent and also happen to be working dog people - who of all people should know better.

Who are also realists. Many many people have pit bulls and are responsible owners, but there is also a lot of them that have little mans disease and these are the dogs that have done horrible things to people. The point was that a pit bull is capable of violence, and has a history of it. Golden retrievers do not.


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## Howard Knauf

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Who are also realists. Many many people have pit bulls and are responsible owners, but there is also a lot of them that have little mans disease and these are the dogs that have done horrible things to people. The point was that a pit bull is capable of violence, and has a history of it. Golden retrievers do not.



I've said it a hundred times....I've been to a shitload of dog bite calls in 20 years and only three were actual purebred pitbulls. The rest were mutts, GSD Xs, Boxers, Labs of all kinds, Cockers, Dalmations, Rotweilers, A couple Springer Spaniels and yes, Goldens. This is not to say that I would have shot the dog, only that to poo poo the officer because it was a Golden kinda pisses me off because those making the statements are not the ones in the specific situation.

In Reference to the Cocoa PD officer who Tased the Rott...He had every right to shoot it but given the circumstances it was not safe to do so. A lot of cops would have shot anyway and paid for it later. People deal with threats in all different ways. Some have nerves of steel and are calm under fire, others are not. That's just the way that it is. An aggressive dog that I would run off would get plugged by most officers I work with. I don't belittle them or judge them unless the shot is up the dogs asshole which tells me it was running away.

Recently one of our SWAT guys plugged a Pit belonging to a drug dealer. Information on the dog is that he was a rescue and was very friendly. The dog obviously took exception to a strangely clad person aggressively entering the home. The dog had the officer by the ballistic vest and the dog was shot 3 times while on the bite. Now, had it been me I could have easily neutralized the dog without killing it because I'm used to having biting dogs on my protected person. The officer was not injured in any way and only knew the dog was biting because he saw it. The officer felt awful for a week and being as he's on my squad and I was there during the incident I didn't second guess him or call him a puss because he killed the dog.

It's easy for working dog people to stand on high and judge the average person who deals with an aggressive dog in a manner different than we would. One of my supervisors was big on having us consider others' perception. Calling this officer a moron is your perception. His perception of the incident was quite different I'm sure.


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## Don Turnipseed

Howard, I would buy that train of thought that people react differently if we were talking untrained civilians. We are not. We are talking "trained" officers that are carrying guns. 

Also. I think all LE should be required to be on WDF. Had this officer been a member here he would have known without a doubt the dog wouldn't bite as it was a golden and has not been bite trained. I think that is a given. Also, since there are no dogs that will to protect person or property any more. according the the WDF, the officer should have known, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that there was no chance of being bitten.

That being said, I do think that an officer that has been given the right to carry a firearm, should also be expected to react more stabley to a given situation than what you described in your post. If he can't, he is no better than a security guard and they don't allow them to carry guns unless well tested.


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## Howard Knauf

That's the rub, Don. People are not robots. People are uniquely different and, like dogs, react to training differently.People learn at varying rates, or are physically incapable of retaining what is taught. People are lazy...most do not keep up the training unless it is mandatory. There are just not enough of the type of people out there that meet your/most people's parameters as a cop. We are not unfeeling robots or god. We have the same inadequacies, fears and shotcomings as the next guy.

I will agree that there are a bunch of people out there who shouldn't be cops so don't get me started. I'm fortunate that those on my squad are pretty damn good people to work with that are level headed and brave borne from experience.


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## Alice Bezemer

I think its pretty easy to blame the officer when in fact I think the owner should be put up as the responsable party here...I dont like nore do i agree with the fact that the dog was shot, if the officer had been better educated on dogs he might have reacted in a different manner all together...we cant look in the officers head now can we....fur and bark might equal dogbite to him when in fact most of us here know better then that to begin with. there was an invisable fencesystem in place if i read correctly? now im thinking how should the officer have known that ? just becoze we know dont mean that he does now does it....the officer should have perhaps waited with going onto the terrain but thats about all i can think of...there should have been a sign posted by the owner about the invisable fencing! there should have been a sign posted about the dog being agressive or non agressive! the responsabililty does not lay with the officer but with the owner and no one else...its sad the dog died due to shear stupidity but he lets face it, we all on this forum know how to read dogs (well some of us anyways :lol: ) but that doesnt mean the officer did...blaming him for this is like us going to the zoo and being invited into the lionscage, the caretaker knows what to expect but do we ? **** NO :lol: this is the same thing....

if someone is at fault here its the owner...shame the dog had to pay the price for a fkwad ignorant owner.

JMO


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## Don Turnipseed

I wonder how mail carriers have delt with dogs for so long with just pepper spray. If this officer can't handle the situation at least as well as a mail carrier what is he doing with a gun. Mail carriers are also just people like you and me Howard. Maybe we could cut down these instances if you recruited mail carriers. I am not uoset that the dog was killed Howard. Shit happens. I am upset moreso that these loose canons are allowed tp carry guns. I could even understand it if it were a 100lb gsd, a rottie, or a bulldog.....but a golden just isn't that threatening. Don't officers carry mace or pepper spray?


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## Dave Colborn

Not sure how I feel about him shooting the golden. I wasn't there so I am not going to Monday morning quarterback him. But to draw, present and shoot a moving dog....there must be some training there. I wonder how many rounds it took to hit him. I know news media changes stuff to suit their mood. There isn't a whole lot of truth that comes from the news.

I had a golden try and eat my lunch when I worked for a security company, training dogs. We finished training one day and walking back to the kennels he came up the line at me as serious as I have ever had a dog do it. He missed and we had a short one sided discussion. Everyone laughed when I passed the info on so whoever handled him next would be ready for it. Two or three days later he went after another guy. Missed him too barely. Very territorial and dominant. Got sent overseas and ate his handler up pretty good and got put down. 

I heard that goldens are having more and more trouble with biting and being dominant. Don't know if there is any truth to that or not. I know they have always been high on the dog bite list because of everyone's perception that they are friendly, and therefore not needed to be careful around.


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## Patrick Murray

Dave Colborn said:


> But to draw, present and shoot a moving dog....there must be some training there. I wonder how many rounds it took to hit him.


An eyewitness said the dog had stopped and the cop shot him. It's not that difficult to shoot a stationary target from 6 feet. 

The bottom line is the government can come onto your property unannounced and kill your dogs under the guise that they're searching for some bad guy. Anyway, sing the Lee Greenwood song with me. It goes like this..."and I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free".


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## Dave Colborn

Patrick Murray said:


> An eyewitness said the dog had stopped and the cop shot him. It's not that difficult to shoot a stationary target from 6 feet.
> 
> The bottom line is the government can come onto your property unannounced and kill your dogs under the guise that they're searching for some bad guy. Anyway, sing the Lee Greenwood song with me. It goes like this..."and I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free".



I didn't find any eyewitness accounts. Are you just following the news medias lead, or do you actually have a link?

Oh, and if you post it, we all still know how reliable witnesses are....


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## Patrick Murray

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ts_and_kills_their_dog_murder_happened_o.html

FHilton 
4:30:36 PM
Dec 22, 2010

Boomer was my nephew's dog. A few things need to be clarified so the public knows exactly what happened. The officer walked through the yard checking out a "suspicious" truck call - this family did not call the police. Witnesses state Boomer came off the porch and barked at the officer. He was ten feet from the porch, STOPPED, and barked TWICE. The officer never yelled at the dog - he just fired. One witness stated he was stunned at how quickly the officer discharged his weapon. Boomer was not growling or charging the officer - he just barked TWICE. The electric fence is not an issue - the officer was inside the fence perimeter so it has no influence on the dog. Boomer STOPPED on his own. I arrived within minutes of the shooting. I talked to the witnesses. This can't be justified. The officer overreacted - simple as that. Now we are all grieving this senseless loss. So far, Clayton County Police Department says the officer used "proper protocol." The truth needs to com




Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...heir_dog_murder_happened_o.html#ixzz18y1XjW00​


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## Percy Longfellow

Mr. Murray is absoloutely right.

This wasn't an error in judgement. Typically, police do not make "errors" in judgement. If you believe that...

Additionally, when one hears of public outrage over police misconduct, the _publically_ dispensed information about said officer's suspension or termination are summarily FALSE. The officer, being part of the greater ZOG adminstration is simply shipped to another part of the world where his identity is changed and he resumes business as usual.

Each episode of "misconduct" simply represents a "feeling out" of just how much oppression society is ready to tolerate. Centrally planned. If it "goes too far" for a given time and place, the pretense of discipline and rectification is given to the public.

We need to understand that all police misconduct is planned and implemented with a purpose.

If you are, or ever have been, in the military, law enforcement, firefighting, or even certain jobs related to building public infrastructure, you have essentially been given the mark of the beast, and we can't help you. You are "the corporation".


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## will fernandez

I am proud to be a member of the ZOG


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## Dave Colborn

Patrick Murray said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ts_and_kills_their_dog_murder_happened_o.html
> 
> FHilton
> 4:30:36 PM
> Dec 22, 2010
> 
> Boomer was my nephew's dog. A few things need to be clarified so the public knows exactly what happened. The officer walked through the yard checking out a "suspicious" truck call - this family did not call the police. Witnesses state Boomer came off the porch and barked at the officer. He was ten feet from the porch, STOPPED, and barked TWICE. The officer never yelled at the dog - he just fired. One witness stated he was stunned at how quickly the officer discharged his weapon. Boomer was not growling or charging the officer - he just barked TWICE. The electric fence is not an issue - the officer was inside the fence perimeter so it has no influence on the dog. Boomer STOPPED on his own. I arrived within minutes of the shooting. I talked to the witnesses. This can't be justified. The officer overreacted - simple as that. Now we are all grieving this senseless loss. So far, Clayton County Police Department says the officer used "proper protocol." The truth needs to com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...heir_dog_murder_happened_o.html#ixzz18y1XjW00​


Patrick. Your account of this is wrong, but it shines a light on how things spin out of control. You took an uncorroborated blog post/article comment and posted it up here like it's gospel. It's not. You could have written that account for all I know.


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## Jim Nash

will fernandez said:


> I am proud to be a member of the ZOG


No worries . In the black helicopter as we speak . Triangulating Mr Longfellow's coordinates as we speak , incorporation progress will commence immediately . 

I'm hoping to get shipped to Maui next . Long live ZOG !


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## Patrick Murray

Dave Colborn said:


> Patrick. Your account of this is wrong, but it shines a light on how things spin out of control. You took an uncorroborated blog post/article comment and posted it up here like it's gospel. It's not. You could have written that account for all I know.


How is my "account" wrong? Please be specific.


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## Bob Scott

I'll stand by my opinion!
In more then one instance my family or myself has been personally involved in misinformation put out by the news. To pass judgment simply on what's said on tv or in the paper is something I don't care to do.
I don't like Goldens though. :twisted:


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## Patrick Murray

Bob Scott said:


> I'll stand by my opinion!
> In more then one instance my family or myself has been personally involved in misinformation put out by the news. To pass judgment simply on what's said on tv or in the paper is something I don't care to do.
> I don't like Goldens though. :twisted:


The cop was there because a citizen called in a complaint about someone selling meat from their truck. The cop entered onto private property searching for the person allegedly selling meat from their truck. The copy encountered a dog on the property that was, allegedly, charging at the officer aggressively. The cop shot and killed the dog. 

Let's keep in mind the cop was not searching for a rapist or an armed robber; he was searching for some dude selling meat from his truck. The cop used poor judgment entering onto the property and then exercised terrible judgment in shooting the dog. 

Deputy Fife needs to be reassigned to office receptionist.


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## Don Turnipseed

It's a shame that mail carriers are held to a higher standard than LE in these situations. Somehow they manage without leaving bodies on someones private property where the dog had every right to be. I would like to here from the mail carrier that deliverd mail to this house.


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## Jim Nash

Don Turnipseed said:


> It's a shame that mail carriers are held to a higher standard than LE in these situations. Somehow they manage without leaving bodies on someones private property where the dog had every right to be. I would like to here from the mail carrier that deliverd mail to this house.


I know quite a few Mail Carriers . If a dog charges them sometimes mace works , sometimes it doesn't . Sometimes they can use there bag to block and fend the dog off . Sometimes they get bit to sh** . Most wish they had a gun to shoot the dogs .


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## will fernandez

Let me start by saying I have no opinion about the dog being killed. 

But as for the cop being on private property without a reason is a different ballgame altoghether. Being from Georgia, these so called mobile meat vendors are a transient bunch. They like to go around neighborhoods, burglarize homes if your not home and sell you shiity meat if you are. The same people that are undeniably upset about their dog would be also upset if all their belongings were stolen just a few days before the holidays. 

It is a tragedy and I hope some good will fcome from it.


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## Bob Scott

One of my buddies is a retired mail carrier. His favorite expression when he though someone was full of crap was "Don't worry mr Mail man, my dog wont bite!" 
Kinda like "Checks in the mail" or " Of course not honey, I wouldn't do that to you!" :-& [-X:lol:


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## Eric Read

we had some meat vendors come around last year. and right by our front door was a big 6x7 bump out bay window. He knocked and was back in his truck before I could get to the door. Our older dog had her deep I'll kill you bark going and of course the glass shakes and he can see what's making the noise and wanted no part of it. 

I got to the door and he yelled, "you wanna buy some meat?" I said no thanks and he smiled and drove off.


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## will fernandez

In Georgia you also have to be weary of the door to door magazine vendor and security alarm system salesman.


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## Jim Nash

Bob Scott said:


> One of my buddies is a retired mail carrier. His favorite expression when he though someone was full of crap was "Don't worry mr Mail man, my dog wont bite!"
> Kinda like "Checks in the mail" or " Of course not honey, I wouldn't do that to you!" :-& [-X:lol:


My mom was a Mail Sorter for over 30 years . The guy that does my taxes was a Mail Carrier for even longer . Quite a few guys from high school became mail carriers too . All of them even my mom use to have the same reaction after a Postal employee rampage . "Doesn't suprise me ! " .


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## maggie fraser

Were the owners of this dog present at the time? If so, I'm curious as to what they did.

If that was my place, that police officer would not have left walking!

Incidentally, up until 5 - 6 years ago I kept my dogs, two gsds and 2 jrts without a fully enclosed place, we were semi rural, and my dogs certainly would have held to account uninvited/unwarranted guests. The mail man really liked my dogs and cops don't ordinarily shoot dogs here.


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## Don Turnipseed

Will said'


> It is a tragedy and I hope some good will fcome from it.


It would be to bad if this didn't result in something good.

Maybe Joby and a few others are reading this thread. Apparently LE doesn't share his feelings that no dog will bite without training and that no dogs will protect their property naturally. Even golden retrievers will do it apparently. Joby, where are you? :grin:


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## Dave Colborn

Patrick Murray said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ts_and_kills_their_dog_murder_happened_o.html
> *FHilton
> 4:30:36 PM
> Dec 22, 2010
> 
> Boomer was my nephew's dog. A few things need to be clarified so the public knows exactly what happened. The officer walked through the yard checking out a "suspicious" truck call - this family did not call the police. Witnesses state Boomer came off the porch and barked at the officer. He was ten feet from the porch, STOPPED, and barked TWICE. The officer never yelled at the dog - he just fired. One witness stated he was stunned at how quickly the officer discharged his weapon. Boomer was not growling or charging the officer - he just barked TWICE. The electric fence is not an issue - the officer was inside the fence perimeter so it has no influence on the dog. Boomer STOPPED on his own. I arrived within minutes of the shooting. I talked to the witnesses. This can't be justified. The officer overreacted - simple as that. Now we are all grieving this senseless loss. So far, Clayton County Police Department says the officer used "proper protocol." The truth needs to com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...heir_dog_murder_happened_o.html#ixzz18y1XjW00​



Patrick. Who wrote the part in bold??


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## Guest

Don Turnipseed said:


> Will said'
> 
> 
> It would be to bad if this didn't result in something good.
> 
> Maybe Joby and a few others are reading this thread. Apparently LE doesn't share his feelings that no dog will bite without training and that no dogs will protect their property naturally. Even golden retrievers will do it apparently. Joby, where are you? :grin:


Well, according to the info provided it is to late to know what would of happened? The dog was just barking as they said, but do you wait till its too late.....Yes you can look at this from both sides and not all LE personnel or anybody has the knowledge of the folks on the WDF, so who know's what would of happened. I have an opinion on this, however with the information provided, I do not want to make a premature/hasty assumption.


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## Jim Nash

maggie fraser said:


> Were the owners of this dog present at the time? If so, I'm curious as to what they did.
> 
> If that was my place, that police officer would not have left walking!
> 
> Incidentally, up until 5 - 6 years ago I kept my dogs, two gsds and 2 jrts without a fully enclosed place, we were semi rural, and my dogs certainly would have held to account uninvited/unwarranted guests. The mail man really liked my dogs and cops don't ordinarily shoot dogs here.


Maggie , regardless of the way others want to make this appear , it doesn't happen that much in this country either , when you consider the amount of Police / dog confrontations there are every day in this country . 

I've done this for 19 years and haven't shot a dog yet . I've had alot of confrontations and have been very close but haven't even fired at one yet . We have over 500 police officers in our department and I probably know less then a dozen officers who have ever had to shoot a dog . 

Most were on the SWAT team . Last one I know that shoot a dog was during a raid . Guy had a big Rott and on a previous raid he had a nice little suprise for us , a Cobra in a trash can . 

On this entry the Rott charged then ran off but a Black Lab charged and bit the lead entry team member pretty bad . 

The vast majority of Police / dog confrontations the dogs aren't shot . I usually see the Officers actually putting themselves at great risk so they don't have to shoot the dog . Luckily most of the time noone gets hurt . 

But 99% of the time if a dog gets shot it will make the news around here because it's an issue that draws readers and viewers . I have yet to see an article or TV news segment on how a Cop went out of his/her way not to shoot a dog , even though it happens WAY more often .


----------



## Patrick Murray

The blogger.


----------



## Guest

Dave Colborn said:


> Patrick. Who wrote the part in bold??


LOL, I was gonna ask the same thing. Haven't heard from Officer/PD etc...


----------



## Bob Scott

Jim Nash said:


> My mom was a Mail Sorter for over 30 years . The guy that does my taxes was a Mail Carrier for even longer . Quite a few guys from high school became mail carriers too . All of them even my mom use to have the same reaction after a Postal employee rampage . "Doesn't suprise me ! " .



I had one dog maced by the mail carrier. My fault! Yrs later another dog, Thunder,  was making a real effort to get around the poor guy's mail pouch (The guy woulda made a great ring decoy :lol .He was way to busy to even reach for a spray can. My fault again!
Lucky for me both were pretty cool guys that were on my route for yrs.


----------



## Jim Nash

Bob Scott said:


> I had one dog maced by the mail carrier. My fault! Yrs later another dog, Thunder,  was making a real effort to get around the poor guy's mail pouch (The guy woulda made a great ring decoy :lol .He was way to busy to even reach for a spray can. My fault again!
> Lucky for me both were pretty cool guys that were on my route for yrs.


I've seen that too . Maybe they should issue Police Officers bags full of mail .


----------



## maggie fraser

If that's true and representative of what you say Jim, this story sounds a strange one.

One night, the police had been searching for a fugitive and had traversed right across my back garden and up and over my 6' back fence. My dogs had been kicking off (they spent the night indoors), I would generally go out with only one dog if there was ever disturbance, on this occasion I was slow.

The police came by the next day and explained what had been going on, they knew about my dogs....they were really pleased my dogs were in!

The police here in my experience are generally very good with dogs, I'd had them round my place quite a lot when travellers had been a problem....I never had to lock my dogs away...experience and approach I reckon.


----------



## Jim Nash

Don Turnipseed said:


> Will said'
> 
> 
> It would be to bad if this didn't result in something good.
> 
> Maybe Joby and a few others are reading this thread. Apparently LE doesn't share his feelings that no dog will bite without training and that no dogs will protect their property naturally. Even golden retrievers will do it apparently. Joby, where are you? :grin:




Well Don from my experiance most dogs won't bite , they will put on a good show, bark bluff charged , run off , come back and repeat . Lucky for them because they lived to bark another day and that's the story with most Police / dog comfrontations I'm aware of . 

Not saying I'm going to give a dog a chance to prove it . There may come a day a dog puts on a show for me that I am not will to push too far . If I'm legally doing my job and think I'm going to get bit and can take the dog out safely , I will .


----------



## David Frost

Jim Nash said:


> No worries . In the black helicopter as we speak . Triangulating Mr Longfellow's coordinates as we speak , incorporation progress will commence immediately .
> 
> I'm hoping to get shipped to Maui next . Long live ZOG !


Jim, I did the Maui thing after I caused Katrina. It's not all it cracked up to be. Don't complain openly about your assignment though, the made me a dog trainer in TN. I don't mind that part, but they made me old.

DFrost (sort of)


----------



## Tammy St. Louis

>>>
On this entry the Rott charged then ran off but a Black Lab charged and bit the lead entry team member pretty bad .

this cant be true , i think we all know on this form ,,, or have learned through this thread, 
that a LAB , would not bite or be considered vicious, it was probably the rottie that bit really , 
labs and goldens just dont bite, we all know this


----------



## Don Turnipseed

When I was plunbing for a living I did the service work and had a good number of dog encounters. One ladie stood on her porch laughing while telling me how this dog had bit the PG& E guy last week and was pissed when I kicked the dog half way across her yard. I could back most all the dogs down without a proble. I remember one time way out in the boondocks when I was going up to the front door I heard a dog barking as it rounded the far corner of the house. I was ready for it and it was a small dog. As I am face this dog I see a huge St Bernard come around the same corner at full tilt. Now I had two dogs and one was over 200 lbs. I barely got to the truck in time and since the drivers window was down, I had to sit on the passenger side until the people got home. Yeh, they said he wouldn't bite but I had already had some encounters with St Bernards and I wasn't going to find out. Never had a gun with me, never had to shoot a dog. Most LE have batons don't they.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>
> On this entry the Rott charged then ran off but a Black Lab charged and bit the lead entry team member pretty bad .
> 
> this cant be true , i think we all know on this form ,,, or have learned through this thread,
> that a LAB , would not bite or be considered vicious, it was probably the rottie that bit really ,
> labs and goldens just dont bite, we all know this


That was just to get the press off their back Tammy. The rot bit they guy but he missed and hit the lab. The rottie ran off at the shot. Every one came out looking good.


----------



## Dave Colborn

Patrick Murray said:


> The blogger.


Patrick. 

I am telling you the cop was in the right. He did everything right to departmental SOP, I downloaded it and read it. Didn't do anything wrong. Should get a medal and a pay raise. Shouldn't even be investigated. I was in the US right after it happened. I talked to an eye witness on the WDF...



I have as much knowledge of the incident as the blogger. I'd bet on that. The difference between my statement above and his is that you agree with his, so therefore, you aren't obligated to find out if it's the truth or not. You just post it as if it is fact. 

If the cop is wrong for shooting, then he is wrong. If he is not, he is not. No need to blow this out of proportion. Why can't everyone understand that sometimes you just don't understand. 

It's all about the perspective.


----------



## Connie Sutherland

Mr. Longfellow, you will want to post your introductory bio. 

You may have missed that rule when you signed up.

Here you go: http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f20/

"ALL NEW MEMBERS MUST INTRODUCE THEMSELVES!"

Thank you!


----------



## Jim Nash

Don Turnipseed said:


> When I was plunbing for a living I did the service work and had a good number of dog encounters. One ladie stood on her porch laughing while telling me how this dog had bit the PG& E guy last week and was pissed when I kicked the dog half way across her yard. I could back most all the dogs down without a proble. I remember one time way out in the boondocks when I was going up to the front door I heard a dog barking as it rounded the far corner of the house. I was ready for it and it was a small dog. As I am face this dog I see a huge St Bernard come around the same corner at full tilt. Now I had two dogs and one was over 200 lbs. I barely got to the truck in time and since the drivers window was down, I had to sit on the passenger side until the people got home. Yeh, they said he wouldn't bite but I had already had some encounters with St Bernards and I wasn't going to find out. Never had a gun with me, never had to shoot a dog. Most LE have batons don't they.



Yeah but Don you are the wise old mountain man that has all that time to learn about dogs while hiding up in the woods . Most LE aren't afraid of people so they spend their time out amongst the public . Not as much time to be the dog whisperer like you . LOL .

I have a baton but my gun is a much more effective weapon .


----------



## Jim Nash

Don Turnipseed said:


> That was just to get the press off their back Tammy. The rot bit they guy but he missed and hit the lab. The rottie ran off at the shot. Every one came out looking good.


LOL . I'm aware of your life experiances with the big bad popo and how you would be more likely to relate to the Lab.


----------



## Howard Knauf

Don Turnipseed said:


> It's a shame that mail carriers are held to a higher standard than LE in these situations. Somehow they manage without leaving bodies on someones private property where the dog had every right to be. I would like to here from the mail carrier that deliverd mail to this house.


 You probably wont hear much because mail carriers leave a nice little notice that because of your barking dog you must now pick up your mail at the post office. Around here they refuse to leave your mail in a house mounted box...they want all street side delivery. Oh...And if the garbage man leaves a can anywhere near your mailbox and the letter carrier can't drive up to the box like at Wendy's...they hold your mail till the next day. Cops don't have that luxury.


----------



## maggie fraser

Howard Knauf said:


> You probably wont hear much because mail carriers leave a nice little notice that because of your barking dog you must now pick up your mail at the post office. Around here they refuse to leave your mail in a house mounted box...they want all street side delivery. Oh...And if the garbage man leaves a can anywhere near your mailbox and the letter carrier can't drive up to the box like at Wendy's...they hold your mail till the next day.


 
They don't have that luxury in these parts.


----------



## Jim Nash

David Frost said:


> Jim, I did the Maui thing after I caused Katrina. It's not all it cracked up to be. Don't complain openly about your assignment though, the made me a dog trainer in TN. I don't mind that part, but they made me old.
> 
> DFrost (sort of)



Damn , just got my papers . Anchorage . All over that little global warming thing . Good news is I get to be 20 again . Bad news is this time it's as a woman .


----------



## Patrick Murray

Dave Colborn said:


> You just post it as if it is fact.


I didn't post anything as fact. I shared what I read. 

You and others may believe the cop's judgment and actions were correct but I don't share that view. We can disagree and stay friends, right? :mrgreen:


----------



## Shawn Reed

I think the morale of the story is, the golden was doing an alert or territorial bark and the cop got scared and emptied his/her clip in the dog. IMO it was a very bad decision to draw the gun in this situation and YES I have been in this situation many times(without a gun). It is what it is at this point. I feel there should be at the least some form of punishment for endangering the neighborhood with discharging a firearm over a golden retriever.


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## Jim Nash

Shawn Reed said:


> I think the morale of the story is, the golden was doing an alert or territorial bark and the cop got scared and emptied his/her clip in the dog. IMO it was a very bad decision to draw the gun in this situation and YES I have been in this situation many times(without a gun). It is what it is at this point. I feel there should be at the least some form of punishment for endangering the neighborhood with discharging a firearm over a golden retriever.


That's your morale of the story . I don't know the full story just the one I got from the media and I know first hand they aren't concerned with what really happened .


----------



## Shawn Reed

Jim Nash said:


> That's your morale of the story . I don't know the full story just the one I got from the media and I know first hand they aren't concerned with what really happened .


I agree with the media having their own agenda. I am just looking at the information provided. The owners had an electric fence. Dogs run to the end of the fence and bark and act like idiots. you open the gate and they act completely different. The guy shot someone's pet that from the information provided was probably alert or territorial barking. If you can provide more information that says differently I'll retract my statement.


----------



## Patrick Murray

Jim Nash said:


> That's your morale of the story . I don't know the full story just the one I got from the media and I know first hand they aren't concerned with what really happened .


Well, this much you know. The cop entered onto private property looking for a dude selling meat from a truck. The dog confronted the cop and the cop shot him. If we're to believe the cop's version then this dog was rare exception of a Golden that would actually bite for real. That's a stretch, Jim. 

In any event, the overwhelming likelihood is that the dog wasn't going to do a damn thing. Shooting the dog was excessive. 

Oh well, shit happens.


----------



## Howard Knauf

Jim Nash said:


> That's your morale of the story . I don't know the full story just the one I got from the media and I know first hand they aren't concerned with what really happened .


 I'll second that! I've written more press releases than I care to count, Mainly because the supv was too busy and I knew all the first hand facts cause I was there. EVERY TIME the media F****D it up! I mean, it was right there in black and white for christ sakes! How inept can you be when you have permission to plagarize! Neve rlet the facts get in the way of a good story. Hell, even getting mine, and my dogs' name right is an undertaking, never mind what really happened.

As far as everyone giving the cop grief over the investigation of the meat salesman....yea, it sounds chicken shit, but I can't tell you how many chicken shit investigations turn into full blown life threatening events. When you never know who you're dealing with, you never know whats going to happen because you never know at what point you are injected into the scumbag's criminal plans....hell, you don't even know they're scumbag criminals until you walk up and say "Hi, I'm officer....."

I've had so called tough guys ride with me and end up shakin like a dog shittin peach seeds when the shit goes down. Most times it was boring stuff for me....and many times it came from ordinary BS calls. 

Handling police calls is like opening a box of chocolates........


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## Jim Nash

Shawn Reed said:


> I agree with the media having their own agenda. I am just looking at the information provided. The owners had an electric fence. Dogs run to the end of the fence and bark and act like idiots. you open the gate and they act completely different. The guy shot someone's pet that from the information provided was probably alert or territorial barking. If you can provide more information that says differently I'll retract my statement.


You missed my point . Besides having their own agenda they have no responsibilty to provide accurate information . Having seen and read how the media reports things I know that they commonly make assumptions and add them to the story , in the need to be the first out with it they will often gather their information from "witnesses" who were never there.

I'm saying some of the things may not have happened that way . We don't know if the dog did as you described or was he much closer and committed . Don't know . We have descriptions of the events coming from sources that are traditionally inaccurate .


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## Gerry Grimwood

People are sofa king stupid, all enraged and shit over one dead dog that none of you would waste money feeding.

Save the white Rhinos =D>


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## Shawn Reed

Jim Nash said:


> You missed my point . Besides having their own agenda they have no responsibilty to provide accurate information . Having seen and read how the media reports things I know that they commonly make assumptions and add them to the story , in the need to be the first out with it they will often gather their information from "witnesses" who were never there.
> 
> I'm saying some of the things may not have happened that way . We don't know if the dog did as you described or was he much closer and committed . Don't know . We have descriptions of the events coming from sources that are traditionally inaccurate .


I didn't miss any point. I know the media can put spin on things. It's a golden retriever, so we'll have to agree to disagree.


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## Alice Bezemer

:lol: I love how people say " its a lab it doesnt bite" 

funny how the breed itself can excuse it from any behaviour completly...it can be mean or nasty but hey who gives a **** its a lab right ? they dont bite ! labs are not vicious or mean, they are fluffy and cuddly.

and then I will say...no dog is born bad its the ****tard owner that needs to be taken down a peg....a dog gets ruined by its upbringing or lack thereof....this could have been a lovely dog or a real mean MF and non of us will know....what we read in the paper and see on tv is just sensation...adding fuell to the fire and not something to take as scripture in my view.....blame the officer for shooting...why the hell not, im pretty sure all of us would have just walked on up and ignored this unknown dog that came up on us running and barking and we would have just said....awwww look how cute! it barks! you must be a very very friendly and loving dog! lets alllll blame the officer coze they felt uncomfortable at that moment and did something we might not like....lets excuse the owner here coze hey...its a lab remember 

lil fluffy furry angels that apparantly have never ever bitten before EVER !

what a crock of shit !


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## Chris McDonald

I don’t know if anyone meant labs don’t bite, just that there less likely to maul you to death. Not that anyone want to “just get a regular bite” either. If I was in that situation I think I would be dumb enough to have taken the bite from the lab before shooting it. But if it was a pit I would have shoot it if it wagged its tail at me. 
Screw the white rhinos we don’t need them I heard there farts cause global warming. If we got rid of all the animals in Africa it might fix the problem. If you believe there is a problem…. I got all the answers


----------



## Bob Scott

Howard Knauf said:


> I'll second that! I've written more press releases than I care to count, Mainly because the supv was too busy and I knew all the first hand facts cause I was there. EVERY TIME the media F****D it up! I mean, it was right there in black and white for christ sakes! How inept can you be when you have permission to plagarize! Neve rlet the facts get in the way of a good story. Hell, even getting mine, and my dogs' name right is an undertaking, never mind what really happened.
> 
> As far as everyone giving the cop grief over the investigation of the meat salesman....yea, it sounds chicken shit, but I can't tell you how many chicken shit investigations turn into full blown life threatening events. When you never know who you're dealing with, you never know whats going to happen because you never know at what point you are injected into the scumbag's criminal plans....hell, you don't even know they're scumbag criminals until you walk up and say "Hi, I'm officer....."
> 
> I've had so called tough guys ride with me and end up shakin like a dog shittin peach seeds when the shit goes down. Most times it was boring stuff for me....and many times it came from ordinary BS calls.
> 
> Handling police calls is like opening a box of chocolates........



Sort of like "Just another "routine" traffic stop"!


----------



## Bob Scott

Jim Nash said:


> My mom was a Mail Sorter for over 30 years . The guy that does my taxes was a Mail Carrier for even longer . Quite a few guys from high school became mail carriers too . All of them even my mom use to have the same reaction after a Postal employee rampage . "Doesn't suprise me ! " .


 
I was suprised Thunder didn't go for the bag with his sport bite training but he was determined to go through it. 
The mail carrier was good with the bag. I'm guessing had taken a few "Martial Arts With a Mail Bag" classes. :-o


----------



## kristin tresidder

Patrick Murray said:


> What is erroneous about his statement?


Sorry, it takes more than big words like "erroneous" to give your question, or it's implications, any weight.


----------



## Percy Longfellow

Mr. Longfellow, you will want to post your introductory bio. 

You may have missed that rule when you signed up.

Here you go: http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f20/

"ALL NEW MEMBERS MUST INTRODUCE THEMSELVES!"

Thank you!





*mod edit*


----------



## Joby Becker

Don Turnipseed said:


> Will said'
> 
> 
> It would be to bad if this didn't result in something good.
> 
> Maybe Joby and a few others are reading this thread. Apparently LE doesn't share his feelings that no dog will bite without training and that no dogs will protect their property naturally. Even golden retrievers will do it apparently. Joby, where are you? :grin:


Hi Don.

First off, If you can show me ONE instance where I said NO dog will bite without training, or that NO dogs protect their property naturally, I will buy you a case of your favorite (moderately priced) liquor.

I would never say that, I have seen plenty of dogs that would do either. 

I am not sure where we are on that whole deal, since you are brining it up again....you never PMed me so we could work out a fair way to test, and arrange to get somebody out to your place..would be neat..regardless of what happened...

As far as goldens, we have one in out SCH club, it does bite the sleeve, but shows no interest in biting a person, but why should it? it's a golden.

I look at this scenario like this, the officer was either a straight asshole, or he thought the dog was gonna bite him. 

At first I was pissed about it, but after thinking about it, some people don't have a lot of dog knowledge, and even if they do they can be scared of dogs, or have misguided judgement.

As far as the owner being at fault, technically NO. The dog was on his own property, apparently not even close to leaving it.

But depending on where they live, I might not have a dog out unattended, never know if someone else is gonna walk a DA dog around the corner with no leash. I think people are kinda dumb to leave dogs outside these days in populated areas...many things can happen, and I do encounter dogs on a daily basis that consider the sidewalks and streets, their territory too, and leave the yard, that pisses me off. Proper containment is a biggie for me personally.

It was just one of those things that happens. 

If I was the cop I would have just kept walking, and see what was on the dogs mind. but I like to think I know a little about dogs, and I am not a cop.

It was probably obvious the mysterious evil meat vendors were not in the front yard where the dog was, and the officer probably saw the dog in advance, unless he was cutting through side yards, he could have probably cruised in his car until he got a visual, or sat on the truck and waited for them to come back to it, doesn't sound like it was a high risk situation for the police to be searching people's yards, maybe coulda took a few extra steps to take the sidewalk, or walk along the curb, I doubt he was in HOT pursuit. I am just guessing, I am not a cop, and I wasn' there,I do think it the whole situation probably could've been handled differently, most likely, but it wasn't. The fact it was a golden pulls at some people' heart strings more, but a dog is a dog is a dog to some people.....and some dogs attack, even without any training..


----------



## Mike Lauer

I had a job that required me to go on peoples property, I have accidentally woken up dogs sleeping on a porch or in their dog house, been charged by so called "vicious" dogs, every time I stood my ground, looked them in the eye, and every one of them stopped 5 feet away.
I am sure there are some out there that may bite without training in defense not prey but I have never encountered one
I'd bet my paycheck that golden would have stopped outside of arms reach


----------



## Edward Egan

So we can't believe anything the media says. We can only believe eye witness accounts, that aren't published in the media, because we can't believe the media, because they have their own agenda. So we can only really believe the police account, which are usually not presented. They only state the police officer acted within the protocols. We should just always believe what is said by the police departments because they don't have an agenda, or they don't want to downplay any event the may put them in a disfavorable position with the public, because after all they are police officers.

What a bunch of crap!

I've worked with and along side police officers for many years. There are good cops, bad cops and cops that over react, some that even like to work the Saturday night shift just so they can beat the crap out of drunks and get away with it, because it within protocol.


----------



## Guest

Edward Egan said:


> So we can't believe anything the media says. We can only believe eye witness accounts, that aren't published in the media, because we can't believe the media, because they have their own agenda. So we can only really believe the police account, which are usually not presented. They only state the police officer acted within the protocols. We should just always believe what is said by the police departments because they don't have an agenda, or they don't want to downplay any event the may put them in a disfavorable position with the public, because after all they are police officers.
> 
> What a bunch of crap!
> 
> I've worked with and along side police officers for many years. There are good cops, bad cops and cops that over react, some that even _*like to work the Saturday night shift just so they can beat the crap out of drunks and get away with it, because it within protocol*_.


 
Or just are willing, while others hide and are scared to do their JOB!


----------



## Joby Becker

Mike Lauer said:


> I had a job that required me to go on peoples property, I have accidentally woken up dogs sleeping on a porch or in their dog house, been charged by so called "vicious" dogs, every time I stood my ground, looked them in the eye, and every one of them stopped 5 feet away.
> I am sure there are some out there that may bite without training in defense not prey but I have never encountered one
> I'd bet my paycheck that golden would have stopped outside of arms reach


I agree, just wanted to add this, the dogs that most likely would bite people, probably are not left outside uncontained for people to encounter..


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## Edward Egan

Jody Butler said:


> Or just are willing, while others hide and are scared to do their JOB!


they may be true sometimes, but by my accounts it's more like they where the ones that got pick on in high school, so now their all grown up (sarcasum), and get to circle jerk the drunk that just got kick out of the bar.


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## Don Turnipseed

Just having fun with you Joby. LOL. If I thought for a second you could get someome over here I would have PM'd you for sure. Odds are against it because theses dogs do not know what equipment or proper bites are. Your gonna need hand protection and face protection. The don't have a clue what an out is. They have been severly hurt in battle with far worse things and never back up. I just don't think is is something just anyone should be trying off leash....but on a one time thing, to trigger them it would indeed have to be off leash....also to see if they will cur.

As far as this incident, you mentioned something novel. The officer could have stayed at the meat truck. Novel idea and I agree. He chose to go trapesing through peoples yards and obviously didn't know where the guy was or he could have called him out to the street. If the meat vendor was in the yard, the dog would have been barking at him would be my guess. While you can't believe LE's account, not the presses account, not the witnesses acount, let's not forget that one said he didn't tell the dog to stop and it was said the dog was stopped when shot. I find that account to have merit simply because he was able to kill the dog. The dog was probably standing still.

All in all, I am not one that thinks the loss of a dog is worth this kind of publicity. The fact that someone with the authority to carry a gun and use lethal force at will, is. Someone stated that how a police officer is going to react is up in the air. That doesn't wash in my mind. When he is given the authority to use lethal force, they better know how he is going to handle that responsibility. If not, we should all be carrying guns to defend ourselves.....and our dogs on our own property.


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## Dave Colborn

Edward Egan said:


> So we can't believe anything the media says.


Exactly. They rarely get it right. If you are willing to question everything else but the media, something is wrong with your ability to find the answer to the question you are asking in the first place.



Edward Egan said:


> We can only believe eye witness accounts, that aren't published in the media, because we can't believe the media, because they have their own agenda.


Eye witness accounts are just as bad as the media and slanted by agenda as well. Except maybe the bed intruder guy. He seemed pretty spot on with what he was saying, although he wasn't technically an eye witness.



Edward Egan said:


> So we can only really believe the police account, which are usually not presented. They only state the police officer acted within the protocols. We should just always believe what is said by the police departments because they don't have an agenda, or they don't want to downplay any event the may put them in a disfavorable position with the public, because after all they are police officers.


I think they put out more correct information or none at all than the media. I am sure the truth gets spun up with the police too, though. 



Edward Egan said:


> What a bunch of crap!


Here's a huge load of crap. Not one person on this forum knows what happened between the officer and the golden retriever, unless the officer is on this forum. And he may not even know. Everyone ought to realize that what they have is an opinion. See, I get it. It doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter what you think. What matters is the dog is dead and the officer shot (at) it. Someone else will get to the bottom of it.


----------



## Pete Stevens

OK, as a person who has been charged by dogs on duty, it isn't fun. I'm lucky that dogs don't scare me too much and I've got some knowledge about behavior. I can usually figure some way to either restrain it or corral it up to a certain location. Plus I've been bit a few times so that does't bother me too much anymore. It hurts, but I'll get over it. Have I shot a dog? No. Have I pepper sprayed the crap out of them? Yes. But just like people, it doesn't always work either. Taser....not a big fan because both darts have to connect to complete the circuit. Pepperballs work pretty good but thats just another piece of equipment we would have to lug around. 

Best thing was the old CO2 fire exstinguishers. We would take them on search warrants and when a dog would charge at us, give them a little blast with it. No harm to the dog and we would rarely see the dog the rest of the time we were there. It caused major sensory overload. Cold blast of air, very loud, huge cloud of fog. But the CO2 cans are now a thing of the past.

The case here seems pretty cut and dry- Dog off a leash. Had the dog been in a fenced yard or tied up, this probably wouldn't have happened. I don't care if it was a Golden or not. Maybe the officer turned and ran or started to back up. Dogs are pretty good about putting on a show when protecting their turf. The officer gives up some ground, dog sees weakness and wants to take more of its turf back, so it "charges". Electric fences are nice but I've dogs work right through the most intense stim from an ecollar when they are in drive. Not every dog, but they are out there. The dog is restrained and we don't have any of these issues. 

Would I have shot the dog? Don't know, I wasn't there and didn't see the behavior displayed by the dog. I won't be little anyones opinion here either, you're entitled to it. But everyone here seems to have some knowledge of dogs and dog behavior. Just like the rest of the civilian world, most cops don't.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

I picked up a "Dog Deterrent" at the local Utilities online auction.
two foot fiberglass pole with a tennis ball bolted on one end and a handle on the other. I guess Colorado Springs Utilities issues (d)
them to meter readers? I paid a $1.50 for it


----------



## will fernandez

Ok lets say maybe the guy is a loose canon or he made a error in judgement and is truly sorry or maybe he has an irrational fear of dogs that just manifested or the dog was ****ing cujo....the possiblties are endless.

One thing I am sure of is that this will be thoroughly investigated now that it has national attention. Maybe the department will get a new SOP, maybe the dude will lose his job or the slight possibility that it stays status quo.

But just running around making snap judgements is a waste of time. Lets wait a few months and see what happens. Though I know it is fun to have a chance to make fun of us (cops) I am sure there are better examples than this.


----------



## will fernandez

and there is always the chance that the ZOG has shipped him off to the mountains of California to spy on Don


----------



## maggie fraser

" But everyone here seems to have some knowledge of dogs and dog behavior. Just like the rest of the civilian world, most cops don't."

Dogs are quite a large part of our society, do the police not receive any related training, as I'm pretty sure they are all going to have to deal with them sooner or later?

Personally, it sounds quite outrageous to me that a police officer can go on to someone's property (in pursuit of someone else) and shoot their dog because they got scared. I don't give a shit what happened, that just sounds like something very wrong. Bad cop training maybe?


----------



## will fernandez

Edward Egan said:


> they may be true sometimes, but by my accounts it's more like they where the ones that got pick on in high school, so now their all grown up (sarcasum), and get to circle jerk the drunk that just got kick out of the bar.


So what happens to the ones that got picked on in high school but couldnt pass the civil service test to join the ranks...due they move to NC:-D


----------



## Don Turnipseed

will fernandez said:


> and there is always the chance that the ZOG has shipped him off to the mountains of California to spy on Don


LOL I am watching Will. I am always watching. Remember, I set the dog yards up 360 degrees around the house because of Ruby Ridge. No one sneaks up on me. LOL Can't get within 200 yards of the house on foot without me knowing someone or something is out there. 

Speaking of Ruby Ridge, there is a case in point right there what can happen when LE shoots another persons dog on their own property. It quickly escalated to shooting a teenage boy in the back, then the retaliation whitch left the agent dead, which led the the killing of an innocent woman , standing in a doorway holding a child being murdered. I have to wonder if part of the gov'ts defence was, "we just never know how our officers are going to react to a given situation when we give them carte blanc use of lethal force" It didn't work then either. That started with the initial shooting of a dog if memory serves.

Training dogs is one thing not knowing how they will react in spite of training.....but they aren't carrying guns.


----------



## Howard Knauf

Don Turnipseed said:


> Speaking of Ruby Ridge, there is a case in point right there what can happen when LE shoots another persons dog on their own property. It quickly escalated to shooting a teenage boy in the back, then the retaliation whitch left the agent dead, which led the the killing of an innocent woman , standing in a doorway holding a child being murdered. I have to wonder if part of the gov'ts defence was, "we just never know how our officers are going to react to a given situation when we give them carte blanc use of lethal force" It didn't work then either. That started with the initial shooting of a dog if memory serves.
> .


 Ruby ridge wasn't about shooting a dog. It was about Randy Weaver being wanted on federal firearms charges and he holed up on his property refusing to surrender and showed intent to commit violence on federal agents. 

A dog was shot by an agent who was staking out the Weaver cabin. The boy returned fire upon the agent and the rest is a matter of record. And for the record....Weaver had cut a deal with the feds and was supposedly cleared of any wrongdoing when the deal was done. Weaver reportedly was setup by an agent concerning the sale of a short barrelled rifle. I have a problem with that FYI.


Maggie.....The police here have the right to enter private property (not domiciles without exigent circumstances) while in the course of investigating crimes and complaints of crimes in progress. Was the meat guy a major crime? Not usually...it's just a misdemeanor in most places. If the meat guy is a burglar, rapist or home invader then I imagine some victim wouldn't give a damn if the cop entered the property just so they happened to stumble onto a serious persons crime in progress.

Personally....If people wouldn't call the police for petty bullshit and handles most of thier own affairs then you wouldn't see much of this type of thing involving cops. Too many people depend on the police because they are incapable of interacting with others in a civil manner. Cops, on the other hand, have become the public's babysitter. We're supposed to have this crystal ball to prevent some dumbass citizen from doing something stupid to themselves, and if we fail we get gigged for it.

Don...like everything in life, you get what you pay for. I'm currently in Hendersonville NC and the starting pay for cops is like 26k.....if you have experience they throw in another 3-4 grand. What kind of cops you gonna get for that? People can place all this burden on the police they want, but seldom do they get what they expect when they call, mainly because they dont understand the law.

I still say I shoulda been a fireman. Everyone loves firemen. They don't give tickets, don't arrest family members, don't bring devastating news concerning family etc etc etc.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Your recollection is different than mine Howard. You must have gotten yours from the media, but nowhere in the media even do I recall the boy shooting back. The boy was shot in the back and was what 12 years old? The agent was then killed by a friend of Randy's. Bad times for the BATF, as it was followed up by Waco shortly thereafter. Yes, It all began over the shortening of a gunbarrel, which was a set up by LE so they cuould use it to coerce him into something they wanted. They took him and his friend to court and the BATF was found to be at fault and how much did it cost the gov't? As you said, the agent was staking the property out. That's it. And of course the wife is just standing by the door because of what? She was just standing there with a baby, in plain view, letting it be known that they would have to shoot it out with them. LOL Gimme a break. Theynshot an unarmed woman hoding a baby down Howard. You can't clean that one up like one of those press releases you mentioned. They shot a young boy in the back as he was running away. And these officers were given guns!!!!


----------



## Don Turnipseed

For those that want a much more accurate account than Howard would have you believe....here is the link.
http://www.stormfront.org/ruby.htm


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Don Turnipseed said:


> For those that want a much more accurate account than Howard would have you believe....here is the link.
> http://www.stormfront.org/ruby.htm


Stormfront, that's the kkk site isn't it ??


----------



## Pete Stevens

I spoke with the US Marshal who shot the dog. The dog was doing what dogs do, barking at someone who was on his turf, and giving up the location of the Marshals behind some concealment. The son did shoot at the Marshals after the dog was killed. The Marshals shirt had a hole in it, the round just missed him. How did this get turned into a Ruby Ridge argument? I think we can all pretty much agree, if you want something seriously effed up, leave it to the feds.

And yes, everyone here has more knowledge than the average joe. If the general population has so much knowledge, then why is there so much demand for dog training? I'm gonna have to disagree with that one.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Stormfront, that's the kkk site isn't it ??


Gerry the credits listed at the top say."The Wall Street Journal"


----------



## David Frost

Getting awfully close to the type of argument that closes threads. Discuss whether you agree or disagree with what that specific officer did, or similar actions. Political arguments involving cases such as Ruby Ridge are not going to continue here.

DFrost


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Pete Stevens said:


> I spoke with the US Marshal who shot the dog. The dog was doing what dogs do, barking at someone who was on his turf, and giving up the location of the Marshals behind some concealment. The son did shoot at the Marshals after the dog was killed. The Marshals shirt had a hole in it, the round just missed him. How did this get turned into a Ruby Ridge argument? I think we can all pretty much agree, if you want something seriously effed up, leave it to the feds.
> 
> And yes, everyone here has more knowledge than the average joe. If the general population has so much knowledge, then why is there so much demand for dog training? I'm gonna have to disagree with that one.


Pete, you talked to the Marshal lthat shot the dog. Would you really expect him to say otherwise after shooting a 13 year old in the back. A hole in someones shirt means the boy shot at him. Both Weaver and Harris were shooting at him. Let's be real, there isn't a person alive that would say I shot the kid in the back while he was running away. The only way they could possibly justify it is to say he shot first. This used to be pretty common practice as it was.

Other than that, I brought it up because it was shooting the dog that finally 9ignited the situation .......while they were trespassing and sneaking around.


----------



## Howard Knauf

Don, first and foremost...just because I'm the police, I don't condone EVERYTHING they do. Don't try to make it sound like I think it was OK. I am big on civil rights and not violating them. When I heard that Weaver's wife was shot down while holding a baby I came unglued. You see Don, I may be a cop but the feds really piss me off!

Secondly...it seems a member here knows the fed who shot the dog. Seems his account of the story is the same as mine. I will post a disclaimer though....My recollection of the facts may be a bit hazy and I should have researched the facts before posted but being as the Weaver debacle is high profile I looked into it more than you average citizen during, and after the incident. Most of my info came from the NRA, a group I support every year, and one that I suspect spins the truth a hell of a lot less than other media types when it comes to guns.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

It's cool Howard but, we can't discuss RR because David has a knot in his panties again.


----------



## Dwyras Brown

Most law enforcement officers in the US have to wear many hats. Sometimes it is the role of a social worker, sometimes it is a psychologist when dealing with the mentally impaired. There are many things that officers are required to be. If making snap decisions on how to react to situations were so easy, I'm sure that a lot of the people doing the second guessing would sign up for the next academy.

Maybe the officer in the video wasn't in animal psychologist mode, maybe the camera didn't show everything that she saw. So until the officer gives the story of what happened, its all Monday morning quarterbacking.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

It will still be Monday night quarterbacking with his account of what really happened. Right now his job may depend on how he tells the story.


----------



## Howard Knauf

Don Turnipseed said:


> It's cool Howard but, we can't discuss RR because David has a knot in his panties again.


 We can't discuss trains anymore. What are we going to talk about if theButch Cassidy and the Sundance kid is off the table?

Merry Christmas Don. This is definately the wrong night for all of this. Merry Christmas David....Merry Christmas John Boy.....


----------



## maggie fraser

Dwyras Brown said:


> Maybe the officer in the video wasn't in animal psychologist mode, maybe the camera didn't show everything that she saw. So until the officer gives the story of what happened, its all Monday morning quarterbacking.


Why do you think that is ok to say that?

Do you think it is ok for a police officer to go on to someone's property as in this case, looking for an illegal meat vendor, and shoot dead the pet golden retriever? Brass tacks, let's not confuse the issue with detail or what the officer might have seen or not, is that an acceptable situation over there?


----------



## will fernandez

Whoa-I just checked out that stormfront site. I cant believe my cuban ass was allowed on.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

My desk is shaking I am laughing so hard Howard. Merry Chistmas to you to. You to David, you old curmudgeon.


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Howard Knauf said:


> What are we going to talk about if Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid is off the table?
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I bet it wouldn't be Butch Cappel. if David has anything to say about it ;-)


----------



## Thomas Barriano

will fernandez said:


> Whoa-I just checked out that stormfront site. I cant believe my cuban ass was allowed on.



Cuban? I thought you were just another one of the 12 million illegal Mexicans here ;-)


----------



## Jim Nash

Don Turnipseed said:


> LOL I am watching Will. I am always watching. Remember, I set the dog yards up 360 degrees around the house because of Ruby Ridge. No one sneaks up on me. LOL Can't get within 200 yards of the house on foot without me knowing someone or something is out there.
> 
> Speaking of Ruby Ridge, there is a case in point right there what can happen when LE shoots another persons dog on their own property. It quickly escalated to shooting a teenage boy in the back, then the retaliation whitch left the agent dead, which led the the killing of an innocent woman , standing in a doorway holding a child being murdered. I have to wonder if part of the gov'ts defence was, "we just never know how our officers are going to react to a given situation when we give them carte blanc use of lethal force" It didn't work then either. That started with the initial shooting of a dog if memory serves.
> 
> Training dogs is one thing not knowing how they will react in spite of training.....but they aren't carrying guns.



Don , you need to talk more with Mr. Pippy Longstockings because you have a flaw in the defense of your fearriden bunker up there . 

This will get me in trouble with ZOG again but I hate to see such a well planned out defense go to waste over 1 minor but very important oversite . It's your cable and internet provider . Remember they are part of the plot too . LOL . 

Don did you really post a link to a kkk site ?! LMAO .


----------



## Dwyras Brown

Maggie even here in goofy California as a lot of people like to call it, we enter a persons property to investigate minor crimes. We are expected to investigate and are not required to get injured before we use the force. If the officer felt that he/she was in harms way, she/he could use whatever force required to protect him/herself.

What I was saying is we are only seeing what the camera sees. We are not seeing what the officer saw or felt was occuring. Look at a DVD in normal view then look at the same scenes in widescreen. You will see a lot more things going on. We as humans tend to view the world in a wider view than a camera will show.


----------



## maggie fraser

Dwyras Brown said:


> Maggie even here in goofy California as a lot of people like to call it, we enter a persons property to investigate minor crimes. We are expected to investigate and are not required to get injured before we use the force. If the officer felt that he/she was in harms way, she/he could use whatever force required to protect him/herself.
> 
> What I was saying is we are only seeing what the camera sees. We are not seeing what the officer saw or felt was occuring. Look at a DVD in normal view then look at the same scenes in widescreen. You will see a lot more things going on. We as humans tend to view the world in a wider view than a camera will show.


I get what you're saying, you're not getting what I'm saying though.

It doesn't matter what that officer saw or thought they saw/felt, it is not an acceptable bottom line result. Period.

You're in a different land to me, that would not wash here, would not be tolerated and rightly so in my opinion obviously. We have a no guns law here, I am happy about that, saves all manner of heartache. But like I say, I am in a different land.


----------



## Connie Sutherland

Don Turnipseed said:


> It's cool Howard but, we can't discuss RR because David has a knot in his panties again.


And so do I. And so do all the mods.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

From a different perspective, it is probably a good thing the kid that owned the dog didn't run out the door to see what was going on...he may have been mistaken for a nefarious meat vendor and shot since the adrenaline was already running rampant.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Connie Sutherland said:


> And so do I.


Over what.


----------



## maggie fraser

Don Turnipseed said:


> From a different perspective, it is probably a good thing the kid that owned the dog didn't run out the door to see what was going on...he may have been mistaken for a nefarious meat vendor and shot since the adrenaline was already running rampant.


----------



## Connie Sutherland

Don Turnipseed said:


> Over what.


"Discuss whether you agree or disagree with what that specific officer did, or similar actions. Political arguments involving cases such as Ruby Ridge are not going to continue here."


----------



## Edward Egan

Dave Colborn said:


> Exactly. They rarely get it right. If you are willing to question everything else but the media, something is wrong with your ability to find the answer to the question you are asking in the first place.
> 
> Seems your are, at best, guessing what I question. I never said I believe everything the media puts out as fact. Reading into what I said to meet your own needs I see.
> 
> 
> Eye witness accounts are just as bad as the media and slanted by agenda as well. Except maybe the bed intruder guy. He seemed pretty spot on with what he was saying, although he wasn't technically an eye witness.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they put out more correct information or none at all than the media. I am sure the truth gets spun up with the police too, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a huge load of crap. Not one person on this forum knows what happened between the officer and the golden retriever, unless the officer is on this forum. And he may not even know. Everyone ought to realize that what they have is an opinion. See, I get it. It doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter what you think. What matters is the dog is dead and the officer shot (at) it. Someone else will get to the bottom of it.


Knowone on this forum said they knew what happened, I believe everyone realizes they offered an opinion, not fact. Go on believing public opinion doesn't matter and your voice won't one bit.
No Dave, knowone will get to the bottom of it, that's the point. The police are saying it falls within protocol, end of story.


----------



## Edward Egan

will fernandez said:


> So what happens to the ones that got picked on in high school but couldnt pass the civil service test to join the ranks...due they move to NC:-D


Funny stuff Will, I'll have to ask the next time I talk to the poopoo.


----------



## Dave Colborn

Edward Egan said:


> Knowone on this forum said they knew what happened, I believe everyone realizes they offered an opinion, not fact. Go on believing public opinion doesn't matter and your voice won't one bit.
> No Dave, knowone will get to the bottom of it, that's the point. The police are saying it falls within protocol, end of story.



Edward. You bring up my point exactly. No one offers fact here, but opinion. Then they spout it until it becomes truth because it was in black and white. Public opinion sucks, when it isn't factual, creates hysteria, and can possibly get someone fired who was just getting off work and walking into his house. 

Here's what really happened. I was there. Wait, I am there.

The meat vendor was selling drugs to finance terrorists ops in Raleigh NC. The terrorists had a guy they wanted to murder there because he was a political activist who's loudly voiced opinions were driving the public crazy to get off their ass to hunt and kill terrorists, who everyone knows are public enemy number 1 in the US. So the drug dealer was selling weed, posing as a meat vendor, to get enough gas money that he could drive to Raleigh, NC, to make his hit for the terrorists. 
He sold some hash brownies to a dude that called 911 almost immediately because he thought he and his wife were going to die from eating bad brownies. The police didn't respond fast enough, so he bumbled out of his house and ran into a cop fighting with teenagers that were crossing the street illegally, had him radio for help, because the meat vendor/drug dealer was getting away, rapidly. The meat vendor at this time was in the yard with the golden, pointed his gun at the golden as it was expiring from natural causes. Meat vendor trips and blows one off into the ground, and as he's leaving an off duty cop is walking into his house three doors down heads towards the sound of the gunshot. As the cop arrives, onlookers presume that since he has a gun and was within a block of the dog, he obviously shot it, because that's how things die here in the US. Can't be explained any other way. The Captain came in from the department and "squared everything away" with the media by mentioning that the off duty cop just walked up to the scene. The media reported the rest.

So my big question is did the meat vendor/drug dealer/hit man make it to Raleigh yet??? Cause that is what we should be worrying about!!!

I should be writing for the local media....

Merry Christmas


----------



## Connie Sutherland

This was exactly what I figured happened.

"Can't be explained any other way."


----------



## Edward Egan

Dave Colborn said:


> Edward. You bring up my point exactly. No one offers fact here, but opinion. Then they spout it until it becomes truth because it was in black and white. Public opinion sucks, when it isn't factual, creates hysteria, and can possibly get someone fired who was just getting off work and walking into his house.
> 
> Here's what really happened. I was there. Wait, I am there.
> 
> The meat vendor was selling drugs to finance terrorists ops in Raleigh NC. The terrorists had a guy they wanted to murder there because he was a political activist who's loudly voiced opinions were driving the public crazy to get off their ass to hunt and kill terrorists, who everyone knows are public enemy number 1 in the US. So the drug dealer was selling weed, posing as a meat vendor, to get enough gas money that he could drive to Raleigh, NC, to make his hit for the terrorists.
> He sold some hash brownies to a dude that called 911 almost immediately because he thought he and his wife were going to die from eating bad brownies. The police didn't respond fast enough, so he bumbled out of his house and ran into a cop fighting with teenagers that were crossing the street illegally, had him radio for help, because the meat vendor/drug dealer was getting away, rapidly. The meat vendor at this time was in the yard with the golden, pointed his gun at the golden as it was expiring from natural causes. Meat vendor trips and blows one off into the ground, and as he's leaving an off duty cop is walking into his house three doors down heads towards the sound of the gunshot. As the cop arrives, onlookers presume that since he has a gun and was within a block of the dog, he obviously shot it, because that's how things die here in the US. Can't be explained any other way. The Captain came in from the department and "squared everything away" with the media by mentioning that the off duty cop just walked up to the scene. The media reported the rest.
> 
> So my big question is did the meat vendor/drug dealer/hit man make it to Raleigh yet??? Cause that is what we should be worrying about!!!
> 
> I should be writing for the local media....
> 
> Merry Christmas


I'll find out as soon as my dog, that's on the front porch, waiting for Santa, starts barking his head off!


----------



## Jim Nash

Edward Egan said:


> I'll find out as soon as my dog, that's on the front porch, waiting for Santa, starts barking his head off!


Don't worry about Santa . I just shot him breaking into a place .


----------



## Connie Sutherland

Jim Nash said:


> Don't worry about Santa . I just shot him breaking into a place .



And his dog Max?!?! :-o


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Jim Nash said:


> Don't worry about Santa . I just shot him breaking into a place .


I really hopeyou are kidding Jim


----------



## Jim Nash

Connie Sutherland said:


> And his dog Max?!?! :-o


Missed . That dog never did anything to me anyways . But I remember that fat f***er from highschool . 

Sorry Gerry . Merry Christmas !


----------



## Dave Colborn

Jim Nash said:


> Don't worry about Santa . I just shot him breaking into a place .



Jim. Let me know if you need a spin put on that... I know he is always into nefarious activities, that Santa. Could probably wrap him up with the meat vendor.


Edward. Rest peacefully tonight. It was actually not a meat vendor/terrorist plot, but Meat Loaf trying to drum up a following for his next movie, a day in the life of Ozzie Osbourne. He was selling Pez to raise gas money for Ozzie to come to Florida. Pauly Shore was the cop in question prepping for an acting role to play Don Johnson playing Jerry Beck AKA Jerome Beck. There was no gun, no golden retriever only an old gypsy woman pimping yutzi shiksa trying to line the coffers of the ZOG.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

My brother just called and told me it is Chistmas eve and invited me to diner tomorrow, Imhad to decline but what about the rest of you. Why are you sitting here on a cimputer on Chistmas Eve. I know Jim is single and has nothing better to do but think about shooting santa, Dave, Connie, Edward, why are all the rest of you on the computer. Even David is kicked back trying to enjoy his vintage bottle of wine. Go party, have fun. Merry Christmas. It is going to be a long night here, to much moon and the dogs are waiting anxiously for Santa. I have been out shutting them up 3 times in the last hour. Santa won't get past them.


----------



## Jim Nash

Don Turnipseed said:


> My brother just called and told me it is Chistmas eve and invited me to diner tomorrow, Imhad to decline but what about the rest of you. Why are you sitting here on a cimputer on Chistmas Eve. I know Jim is single and has nothing better to do but think about shooting santa, Dave, Connie, Edward, why are all the rest of you on the computer. Even David is kicked back trying to enjoy his vintage bottle of wine. Go party, have fun. Merry Christmas. It is going to be a long night here, to much moon and the dogs are waiting anxiously for Santa. I have been out shutting them up 3 times in the last hour. Santa won't get past them.


Maybe if you would have read the Koehler book in it's entirety you wouldn't be having that problem with your dogs . 

Try stomping your feet . Works for me .

A little gift from your Uncle Jim . 

Happy Holidays !


----------



## Connie Sutherland

_"Why are you sitting here on a cimputer on Chistmas Eve. "_


'Cause it's 6:30 where I live. LOL

And it wasn't even 5:30 when that was posted. :lol:

I know I'm old, but 6:30 isn't the shank of the evening to me yet. :lol: In fact, I'm probably able to sit up in my chair with a lap rug (if I'm near the heater) until 8:30 or maybe even 9:00!


----------



## Connie Sutherland

_"I know Jim is single "_



Me too. Maybe I'll give Bob Scott's father-in-law a call, see what he's up to tonight ....


----------



## Jim Nash

Connie Sutherland said:


> _"I know Jim is single "_
> 
> 
> 
> Me too. Maybe I'll give Bob Scott's father-in-law a call, see what he's up to tonight ....


Come on over I just cracked open a Leinie's Honey Weiss . Mom dropped off got my kids . Gonna try and make a ham tomorrow . Volunteered to host this years Christmas party . Ham , mash potatoes , pumpkin and french silk pie and a bunch of other stuff to fill them up if I hose up the ham .

Trying to figure out how to explain it to the kids why Santa didn't deliver their presents tomorrow . Wish me luck .


----------



## Connie Sutherland

"french silk pie"


I don't know what this is, but I want it.







eta

OMG, I was right. I do want it.
http://www.marthastewart.com/recipe/jean-websters-french-silk-pie


----------



## Bob Scott

Connie Sutherland said:


> _"I know Jim is single "_
> 
> 
> 
> Me too. Maybe I'll give Bob Scott's father-in-law a call, see what he's up to tonight ....




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Well....................:-k where can I start? 
He came out of his room wearing his sock over his shoes.....again.
Still standing in front of the Christmas tree trying to figure out just WTH that thing is.
98 in a couple of weeks.......but were not going to let him blow out candles. That wouldn't be pretty! :-o :lol: :lol: 
Gotta laugh or I'll be joining him!8-[8-[


----------



## Howard Knauf

I'm on vacation and my teenage kids are hopped up on expresso and eggnog,... and they're hogging the only TV in the cabin. What else am I gonna do?


----------



## Joby Becker

Dave Colborn said:


> Edward. You bring up my point exactly. No one offers fact here, but opinion. Then they spout it until it becomes truth because it was in black and white. Public opinion sucks, when it isn't factual, creates hysteria, and can possibly get someone fired who was just getting off work and walking into his house.
> 
> Here's what really happened. I was there. Wait, I am there.
> 
> The meat vendor was selling drugs to finance terrorists ops in Raleigh NC. The terrorists had a guy they wanted to murder there because he was a political activist who's loudly voiced opinions were driving the public crazy to get off their ass to hunt and kill terrorists, who everyone knows are public enemy number 1 in the US. So the drug dealer was selling weed, posing as a meat vendor, to get enough gas money that he could drive to Raleigh, NC, to make his hit for the terrorists.
> He sold some hash brownies to a dude that called 911 almost immediately because he thought he and his wife were going to die from eating bad brownies. The police didn't respond fast enough, so he bumbled out of his house and ran into a cop fighting with teenagers that were crossing the street illegally, had him radio for help, because the meat vendor/drug dealer was getting away, rapidly. The meat vendor at this time was in the yard with the golden, pointed his gun at the golden as it was expiring from natural causes. Meat vendor trips and blows one off into the ground, and as he's leaving an off duty cop is walking into his house three doors down heads towards the sound of the gunshot. As the cop arrives, onlookers presume that since he has a gun and was within a block of the dog, he obviously shot it, because that's how things die here in the US. Can't be explained any other way. The Captain came in from the department and "squared everything away" with the media by mentioning that the off duty cop just walked up to the scene. The media reported the rest.
> 
> So my big question is did the meat vendor/drug dealer/hit man make it to Raleigh yet??? Cause that is what we should be worrying about!!!
> 
> I should be writing for the local media....
> 
> Merry Christmas


Now that was a GOOD ONE, probably accurate too


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