# Worst Protection Video Ever



## Greg Leavitt

This was sent to me via email from the Ivan group on yahoo. Its from the worlds where Ivan won. 
http://www.octaviusmalidaj.cz/video_ze_soutezi/MSBO_kolize.wmv


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## Kristina Senter

OMG! 
Did Ivan win because all of the other dogs were "accidentally" injured or what?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Stupid computer can't figure it out.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

....interesting. I can't tell if the decoys suck or the dogs really hit that hard.


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## Lacey Vessell

There were 92 dogs....I doubt very much that he won for that reason[-X He has been there before...where his own dog was jammed by the helper. I feel for the handlers and the dogs that were injured...:-(


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## Greg Leavitt

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> ....interesting. I can't tell if the decoys suck or the dog really hits that hard.


Thats what I was wondering. I mean I wont lie and say a dog has never kncoked me down but this was the worlds, I kinda expect more. Greg


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Ive never been knocked down by a dog...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually my first thought was "hey I don't feel too bad about screwing up myself now". Although, I have NEVER jammed a dog, not even once. 3 dogs got jammed in the regionals in Orlando a few months ago, it wasn't a pretty sight. Not saying it couldn't happen to me, but ya figure if they put someone in a trial like that, that they won't jam 3 dogs in a row...


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## Greg Leavitt

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Ive never been knocked down by a dog...
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Actually my first thought was "hey I don't feel too bad about screwing up myself now". ...



I auctually thought the same thing. LOL


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Can someone put this somewhere that I can see it. Miss emotional the computer has decided that quicktime doesn't work anymore.


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## Lacey Vessell

Try saving the file (to desktop) instead of opening it right away...it's not a big file at all. Worked for me.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I am stuck with a mac......how in the name of GOD does anyone use these things???? LOL


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Ive never been knocked down by a dog...
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


You didn´t say that with an outloud voice, did ya? remember the photo cam :mrgreen: :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Anyone else see why I could never understand why you would use a Mal for Sch???

This video pretty much made me ill. I did not see anything bad with what the helpers did, it is becoming obvious that the quality of the Mals in Sch is improving, as that is where the money is.


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## Lacey Vessell

According to an AWMA members post - 8 dogs total were injured. Two very seriously "Octavius had his leg broken and ligaments torn. Aika had her breast bone broken and her back badly damaged. Her career is finished as well." The one where you see the helper give up the sleeve to the dog in the back half- the helper refused to work the dog further and the handler did not want the helper to work his dog. 

The picture that Ivan has up on his site of Django being jammed at the 2002 AWDF is chilling.


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## Bob Scott

Anybody can have a bad day but I sure hope that first guy knew the dog. 
At this top level how many helpers will walk away from a dog, with their back turned, AFTER losing the sleeve.
Even at club level we have a couple of dogs you wouldn't do that to.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Do you really think that with as many thousands of reps that it takes to get to this level that there are "serious" dogs in this sport????


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## Bob Scott

I understand what your saying Jeff but it's it's either bravado or just plain dumb to walk away with your back to a dog you don't know.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

OR, more than likely, this guy has worked this dog before, OR, if it was a serious dog and was hurt like that, he would have went after the guy, according to all the "fight drive" people.


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## Bob Scott

As I said in my first comment, I hope the guy knows the dog. Either way, it's still not the brightest thing to do.


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## Lyn Chen

I'm wondering if a Mal's speed+that hard sleeve is such a good idea after all...


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Ring is what made the Mal what it is, and that sport is not about collisions. The dogs are bred to center, and have too much drive to worry about getting hurt.


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## Lisa Maze

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ring is what made the Mal what it is, and that sport is not about collisions. The dogs are bred to center, and have too much drive to worry about getting hurt.



You are kidding right? I have had more Ring decoys fall on Feist than SchH decoys. As a matter of fact, he has never been the victim of a bad catch in SchH mainly because I am an overprotective and he has only been on decoys I trust (Mike Ellis and Ivan) and only trialed at Regional level or higher. Feist almost always knocks the decoys down on the Mondioring flee attack. On the flee at the USMRA Championships, the decoy lost both his hat and a shoe when he hit the ground. Feist is not the fastest dog but he hits low on the leg and swings his body out...it is hard to keep your feet when you are already running at top speed. 

Some of the best crash photos are French Ring photos. There is no way around it, when the dogs are fast and the decoys are fast and the decoy is trying to esquive the dog...someone is bound to get hurt.

Bottom line...no sport is safe with a Malinois. They have too much drive and are just too plain stupid about there bodies to be safe. Our Malinois have had some incredible crashes. Last week at an AKC obedience trial Feist and I were trying for his first leg of the Companion Dog Excellent title. I tossed the dumbell across the indoor ring for the retrieve on the flat. He shot out, slid across the concrete floor then scooped up the dumbell as he slid into the ring gates knocking them several feet back and completely over. He earned a first in his class with a 195 :smile: 

Our flyball team is known for several things , an open bar, wild woman and crashing Malinois. We have several dogs who routinely break jumps, crash into the vendors and cars in the run back and knock border collies to heaven when they crossover. When you get a 65-75 lb Malinois moving as fast as a lighter BC (most of are mals run in the low 4's with several sub-four dogs), they just have a longer braking distance.

One thing iss true about owning a Malinois...you better carry a first aid kit. One for you and one for the dog.

Lisa 

Covu's Crash


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## Lisa Maze

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ring is what made the Mal what it is, and that sport is not about collisions. The dogs are bred to center, and have too much drive to worry about getting hurt.


And what is this "bred to center" BS? One of the hardest things about catching a Malinois on a SchH long bite is their ability and tendency to adjust their direction at the slightest change in the helpers body language. If the helper moves a foot back in prediction of absorbing the hit, the dog swings wider to that side. Malinois (both as a herding breed and a ring dog) were bred to have a very quick reaction time to very subtle movement.

Lisa

PS Does this look safe to you?


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## Darryl Richey

It looks like Lisa beat me to the punch about the "centering" statement. I'm curious what makes you think that Jeff? I personally think the dogs go where they go due to training and conditioning. After all none of my dogs go center, and many of the other mals that I catch or have caught in my carreer(sp) don't go center. Interesting concept Jeff. I'm looking forward to hearing your theory on this.

Darryl


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Well Daryl I am glad you showed up. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but the dogs I work all tend to go to the center, and the one that really goes to center is a dog that Lisa bred, my dog Buko.

So what injuries did Feist get at the championships??? I didn't know he competed.

So are you saying that Feist only worked on two decoys???

Maybe I am nuts, but I have only watched about a couple of thousand hours of FR over the years, and I saw some dogs get hurt, but probably not 8 at once, and maybe only a couple more than that, that were not able to compete.


Daryl, I think that one of the reasons that you don't see dogs that center are that you probably don't have quality dogs, your thought process on targeting a dog is the crook of the elbow, which to me is indicative of a weaker dog.

Lisa, how many times has Feist been fallen on????


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Also, I am curious. How many different helpers did Feist have in trials??


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## Jeff Oehlsen

And last, when was the last time that Mals were bred for herding??

Most of the Mals I have seen herding here in the states. And ALL of them, with the exception of Kadi's dogs were useless in the bitework.


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## Darryl Richey

Jeff,

You never did support your statement about the Mals being Bred to center. Nice try. Second you obviously have limited knowledge of me or my training. I don't train my dogs to target the"crook" of the arm. You should try to learn a little bit more of what you are trying to speak of. So by your statement if a dog doesn't go center they must be a piece of crap. Thats another really interesting assumption that you have. I'm seeing more and more of those interesting ideas coming from you. Keep it up it is more then entertaining. As far as weather you feel my dogs or the dogs that I have worked over the years are good or not isn't to big of an issue to me. I have seen dogs that you have commented on and thought were good, that I wouldn't be paid to own. Yet that really doesn't matter either since everyone has there own prefernece.

Darryl


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## Justin Eimer

Jeff~
Boy you sure are a breath of fresh air Jeff. Thanks for re-educating us on the history of the Malinois breed. Without your totally useless knowledge, Lisa and Darryl would be eternally left in the Dark. As would all of those new to the forum. Your knowledge is Superior to all on this board including National Level Decoys and Top Working Malinois Breeders. What's new Jeff? Your immature behavior has not changed from all of the previous boards you have been either run from (with your tail between your legs- I might add) or banned from. Jeff Oehlson... you are a legend in your own mind and a joke to all of us that know who you really are. It's funny man. I heard an exterminating commercial today, where this termite (pest/troll) was asking the mirror who "the fairest one of all" was. The commentator said, "Silly Pest, there is no such thing as an attractive pest." Silly Jeff- there is no such thing as an attractive TROLL! You are a TROLL that has somehow been given safe passage and refuge on this board. You make personal attacks on people who disagree with you and you go out of your way to harrass and disrespect almost everyone. You are a true internet chump who needs your punk card pulled. You have a lot of nerve picking on those who appear to you, to be weaker than you. And, a hell of a lot more nerve to challenge those people that are authorities on breeding and training. Get a life Jeff and don't respond or I might take the gloves off. ~Justin[-X


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## steve gossmeyer

Yes jeff now that you are gettin talked down to its not fun huh. How can you try and give people like Lisa and darryl advise. apparently your bar tending days are catching up with you and you are to drunk to realize who you are tryin to give advise to. Lisa is someone your training (i guess you could call it, I would call in rushing), could not hold a candle to . Lisa i am sorry jeff has a dog from your breeding i guess you can't help what happens when they leave your hands Huh Justin? As far as Darryl goes from what i see he is a very proffesional trainer and a very good person. so talk on Jeff or should I say TROLL. And yes Jeff i am over wieght and i am young and my wifes puppy is targeting the arm pits. OHHHHH So bad. but jeff most of us dont live our lives on the pc we TRAIN, something you obviously dont do. cause your always here. The pupstop website says they arent taking appointments there now. What, dont they like you either. Dont make me post a pic of you catching a sleeve dog at the hand and with a half grip. wow some trainer. even if this is the dog you dont put that on a website. 
Hey here is the only pick of jeff working on the net.








grow up Jeff get a life and maybe a women if one can stand you. and your lil shorts


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## steve gossmeyer

and one of jeff instructing. Nice shorts buddy


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Take the gloves off, I could care less. Authorities on breeding??? Such as???

National decoys??? Like yourself??? I have watched enough of your training to know you are little more than a pumped up personal protection trainer.

You are gonna pull my card?? So that makes you what....president??? I really doubt that you could take anything from me I didn't want to give you.

I find it amusing that you and fatty are attempting to match anything with me. Steve is too big to be a decoy, and you are to afraid. Nice triceps catch.

I have to go to work now, but I can come back later and explain to you why you are so worried about someones comment on the internet that you have to act tough.


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## Justin Eimer

Oh NO you Didn't Steve!!![-X 
But... I must admit that's priceless! 
Behave and let's talk about working dogs and not mongrels.


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## Jerry Lyda

Helper sucked................


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## steve gossmeyer

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Take the gloves off, I could care less. Authorities on breeding??? Such as???
> 
> National decoys??? Like yourself??? I have watched enough of your training to know you are little more than a pumped up personal protection trainer.
> 
> You are gonna pull my card?? So that makes you what....president??? I really doubt that you could take anything from me I didn't want to give you.
> 
> I find it amusing that you and fatty are attempting to match anything with me. Steve is too big to be a decoy, and you are to afraid. Nice triceps catch.
> 
> I have to go to work now, but I can come back later and explain to you why you are so worried about someones comment on the internet that you have to act tough.


jeff we have covered my wieght. several times now at least i am married to a good looking woman. i guess your so stuck with you pc you didnt read that it doesnt hurt my feelings. and have fun at work i hope the guy you bring home likes your shorts and your cane.


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## steve gossmeyer

once again jeff we just dont work ring like i guess your limited too [-X


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## Konnie Hein

Boys....I think I hear the teacher coming....ya better cut it out....[-X


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## Tammy McDowell

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Daryl, I think that one of the reasons that you don't see dogs that center are that you probably don't have quality dogs, your thought process on targeting a dog is the crook of the elbow, which to me is indicative of a weaker dog.



ROFLMAO! That's funny...I have nothing constructive to add other than that. lol


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## Jerry Lyda

I'm getting so much fun out of this. They ARE sticking it to Jeffy. Guys, he has it coming to him. Thanks for putting him in his place.


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## Justin Eimer

Thanks for your vote of confidence Jeffro! No one has seen any of your training... because it does not exsist. I am much more than a protection trainer Jeff, but in your heart you already know that to be true. As for taking anything from you Jeff, you have nothing I want. Your card was already pulled. The only thing that I would like to take from you is your ego and that bottle that you are so attached to. Maybe then you could act like an adult. You are nobody Jeff and you never were. Great comeback though. Responding like an overgrown child by repeating what I said in question form was amusing to say the least. I don't need to act tough. This isn't about that, now is it? It is about your insecurity with your pathetic life and lack of any substantial contribution to the dog world but what you make up on this board. I especially like the comment that I am too afraid to decoy. Also amusing- big boy. What do you have? What do you know? What have you done? What have you produced? NOTHING! Lisa Maze is a Top level Malinois Breeder. Darryl Richey is a national level decoy for PSA. I am a breeder (on Sabatical right now), a trainer, and a decoy. Not the best like you Jeff (lmfao), but damn good. First time I have had any interest in French Ring Sport, but more than capable of decoying. That is with bad knees and a bad back from the Corps like you Jeff. I am just not a big P---- like you and I can drive on. *So, you saw some videos and you want to critique them. What else is new?... You have mastered the art of training without actually knowing how to train!* The pictures are very telling. You are awesome! I think we would all take you more seriously if you actually knew what the flip you were talking about. Just sit there in your drunken' stuper ...and critique away MASTER TRAINER EXTROARDINAIRE JEFF. And by the way, if we don't take you out Jeff... it's only because you are a coward who will hide under the umbrella and blanket of protection that you unfairly enjoy on this board. Ready for round two JerK. ~Justin:-({|=


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## steve gossmeyer

well im headed out i think i said my piece. later jeff. i guess you are away crying now. Drown your sorrow in your bottle. your BF with make it better!!!!


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## Justin Eimer

Steve~
Love ya buddy, but I am buying you a spell check.


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## Justin Eimer

Jerry~
Good to hear from you, it has been a while. I heard about all of the drama, but the computer was down. I agreed with everything you said about Jeff in a post about a week or two ago. Sorry I didn't have access. Where is Matt in all of this? He would enjoy this. He knows all about Jeff too. Anyway, you hit the nail on the head with Jeff. He has been slamming me on PM's and the board, while I was not even here to defend myself. He is and always has been a coward. Like most cowards, he is also a bully. Go figure. I have been quiet since I set up the new computer, but he is such a parasite that he gets under my skin and itches. I couldn't help myself. Anyway, take care. ~Justin


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## Lisa Maze

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Also, I am curious. How many different helpers did Feist have in trials??


Feist has been on five Schutzhund trial helpers, 5 different ones at MR trials ( he has knocked four of them down at least once (plus two in Portugal who he did not knock down), and 3 FR helpers in trial.

Michael, Ivan and David (DD) were the only decoys to catch my dog on the long bite other than the trial helpers at the regional, national and internationl qualifier that he trialed at. I never did local trials because I did not trust the decoys to be safe with Feist...who came like a KNPV and was taught to aim for the center of the helpers chest.

Lisa


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## Lisa Maze

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> And last, when was the last time that Mals were bred for herding??
> 
> Most of the Mals I have seen herding here in the states. And ALL of them, with the exception of Kadi's dogs were useless in the bitework.



The point is not that they are herding dogs but that the were herding dogs. My Border Terrier comes from 50 plus years of strictly show lines but she still is crazy for critters. Just because the emphasis has not been on herding, doesn't mean the traits are not still there. Why do you think all of the breeds commonly used for protection work are "herding" breeds. No, none of them were used like the BC and they served as multi=purpose farm dogs not strictly to herd sheep but still, that is their history and compared to the history of the dog it is relatively new.

"Lisa, how many times has Feist been fallen on????"

In training, at least 50. In trial, usually at least once per trial. At the USMRA Ch. (we were the DIW) he was fallen on very hard.

Anything else?

Lisa


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## Justin Eimer

Lisa~
I am sure that there will be something else. Because hey... Who the heck are you and what the heck do you know? Stand by, when he gets home from the bar he will lead another useless charge. ~Justin


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## jay lyda

Man this is hailarious!! I wish I had been keeping up with this but seeing that I have just caught up, I guess there is nothing for me to say, you guys have summed it up perfectly. Im glad this thread has not been locked and it shouldn't, it seems like every other thread that gets locked, Jeff is in the middle of it saying some stupid crap. So Im glad that you all were allowed to break it down for Jeff. Good job! And Jeff [-X you've had it coming.


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## Michael D. Turner

Hey everyone,
I would like to ring in and put a few things striaght. As for Jutin's ability as a decoy. I have personally seen him work dogs of all different levels of competion,police dogs and personal protection dogs. He has always done a great job working the dogs to their potential and safely. I have also worked his dogs decoying and they are extrem workers in every sense of the word. None of them hold back anything in drive. I would feel sorry for the person they bit without any protection. I have known Justin for almost 12 years. I have worked on the streets with him and we have been in some pretty hairy situations. He puts it on the line in training and work. It goes back to train like you deploy. I let him work my dog (Grim) whenever I get the chance because I know he will bring out what I need when I hit the street with him. I am not a sport person. I am a dog handler who wants a dog that will do it's job because it's happy to do so for me and because he has been trained by one of the best. Justin has been trying to get me more involved in the sport side of dog training, with resistence. Maby one day when I have more time to devote to it. So for all out there do not think for one minute that Justin is affaid of anyone or anything. Like I said I have worked with him and I've seen what he is about. Now as for Steve I know him also. He also is a good decoy from what I've seen. Weight is not an issue. I've seen a few guys that could stand to loose a few and I would like to know what it has to do with the price of rice in china. Nothing! Steve is moving down here to NC to work dogs with me and Justin along with another friend of ours. Who uproots to work dogs with someone if they were a dirtbag. No one that I know of. Well I've said my piece. Later everyone.


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## steve gossmeyer

thanx mike for the support. love you guys man.


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## steve gossmeyer

and justin i got the spell check just choose not to use it!!!!


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## steve gossmeyer

jay lyda said:


> Man this is hailarious!! I wish I had been keeping up with this but seeing that I have just caught up, I guess there is nothing for me to say, you guys have summed it up perfectly. Im glad this thread has not been locked and it shouldn't, it seems like every other thread that gets locked, Jeff is in the middle of it saying some stupid crap. So Im glad that you all were allowed to break it down for Jeff. Good job! And Jeff [-X you've had it coming.


jay cant wait to meet you guys and get the ASR thing rollin


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So I am going to address some important issues here. 

First, the shorts. I guess they are the not the fashion statement. I got to hear about them several times. Thanks for reminding me.

Lisa, I am glad that Feist didn't get crunched on the falls, but was it the decoy that fell, and Feist was on the bite or was it straight back onto the dog?? Scary either way. This was something we were talking about during my non existant training the other day about just having the dog bite the upper body.

Daryl, if you are breeding for FR, and you have a dog that doesn't center the decoy, which there are dogs that do not, then there is a lot of esquiving occuring, due to the dog looking to go to the outside of the decoy.
So it would make sense not to breed these dogs.

National level decoy for PSA.........OK.

Drinking......don't drink, sorry. And as far as hiding....I don't see me hiding anywhere. I comment on all sorts of posts here, and I guess you guys are a bit sensitive. I have no problems saying any or all of this in person. I also like to hear things that I am doing wrong, and accept any and all critism just fine. I will have a video of my non existant training up here pretty soon. I put one up before, but didn't hear much except a few comments on the music, and the buffalo's that were in the background. 

I have never asked to have a thread locked, I would prefer it just goes on, as eventually something might come out of it. Not like steve, who started a thread on how his feelers were hurt. I also commented on that in all sincerity.

So I guess the hiding thing isn't occuring. The coward thing is a bit much, but feel free to hold onto it, and say it to my face. I can assure you I will make you think otherwise.

Mike, I sincerely hope that you do try sports, as it is a lot of fun, and you get to meet a lot of great people as well.

Jay, as always, glad to amuse you. I never saw the picture of me in the shorts before the other day, they were on Longwoods. They were comfortable.


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## steve gossmeyer

i never asked for a thread to be locked. and no feelings were hurt! ok talked enough dont wanna hear anymore. i think this thread is back to were it started!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Lisa, I watched Chris on the flee, and Feist doesn't get fallen on. If you watch the video, it is around 13:06 or so. He swings right around and doesn't get fallen on.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Don't worry steve, your sensitive side is safe for now. I know you started a thread about bullies. Your comments on drinking and boyfriends showed a lot about you as well.

I am thinking of going to the trial in Wis., we can discuss my drinking over a nice cold Mt Dew, along with my non existant training.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Justin, this one is just for you. Especially since you are so fond of mentioning PM's.[-X 

If I understand correctly, you are quite the decoy, and trainer, but knew nothing about not sending a dog free to build the entry. Someone had to TELL you.

This is something I learned in PP a long long time ago. Didn't they teach that at Baden??? I guess not, perhaps you have seen their video with the puppy and the smoke and fire and the swimming and the bad bitework???

Nothing but quality.


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## Lacey Vessell

Wow, apparently I missed alot last night....alot of testosterone in this thread. My old self was wore out from staying up the night before, till 0414 in the morning talking about our plans for my dogs and for training the next day at 0700. Great training yesterday by the way Justin - you were always great back up when we worked the streets together....things have definitely not changed Still trying to understand where someone would get the idea that your afraid.....especially when working a dog - I've never seen an inkling of it from you in all these years. Although I gotta admit, sometimes I was afraid for you:smile: 

Gotta also admit that I was not thrilled when reading this thread....guess my attempt at "keeping the peace" failed miserably but I understand that everyone has their breaking point....hopefully we can all get back on track and stop with the unconstructive criticisms, name calling and personal attacks that have nothing to do with training dogs. I like this board .......I think if we set differences aside and are willing to keep an open mind, we can all learn alot from each other about working dogs. 

Yeah, I know I'm getting "soft" in my older years..........


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## Justin Eimer

Lacy~
Thanks... I'll see you tonight after work. Got a late start after last night. I'll behave for now. Looking forward to training again tomorrow. ~Justin


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## Justin Eimer

Jeff~
I am going to respond to you hopefully this last time. Then my plan is to ignore you, so I don't find myself getting roped into another slam session. I didn't need your advise on how to build entry. Not that I would not have been receptive to advice from you if you weren't such a jerk all of the time. I believe that your advice was to have the dog (a 4-5 month old puppy) drag a flipping tire to the bite. Well, I have to tell you that I don't think that it is a very smart idea for a young, growing dog to pull a car tire when all of the joints are forming. As for not allowing the dog to enter freely, I am sorry but this is all new for him and entry is not my primary focus with him. What you are saying about the dog having resistance upon entry, does have merit but it is no great dog training secret, it is very elementary. Not everything that appears in training videos, includes everything. If you had asked, I would have told you that drag-in's are quite routine with me. So, no Jeff, you did not have to *TELL* me anything. [-X Thanks but no thanks![-X As for Baden, I have been to the training site/facility on a few occasions (probably 8 years ago). I was not trained by Mike McConnery or anyone else there. I was treated well while I was there, and I enjoyed my time there. I was very impressed with all of the training area and intrigued with all of the training. Mike (Turner) was actually with me, and while we were low crawling in the snow, under barbed wire, with two dogs we had never met prior to this, good old Mike (McC) was firing live rounds just above our heads. The rounds were very close to us, as they were tearing through the corregated metal that was on either side of us. It was a little much, but we enjoyed it none the less. It was not the time that I spent up there that was a problem, it was the treatment afterwards. Mike and I were both promised positions on the tactical deployment team, but were never contacted again. I have my own negative feelings on Mike McConnery, but I don't feel the need to slam him on the net, when I know his training does accomplish/produce some pretty sweet dogs. If you had ever been to Baden, you would know that my decoying is nothing like their's , nor are my training methods. Baden does not believe in utilizing prey drive... at all. I like some of the philosophy as it pertains to deployment preparation for actual "real" (your favorite word) life situations. Oh, and yes Jeff, I have seen the video of the puppy, the fire, the smoke, and the bad bitework, but once again, I did not learn that it was bad at Baden, like you I knew it was bad when I saw it and didn't have a reason to comment on it. I would much rather see the puppy go through all of those environmental stressors, over multiple surfaces, and then exhibit nice bitework. I guess I didn't want to bash a former Marine on the net for no other reason, than to be hurtful. While I was in the Corps Jeff, I learned that their were assholes in every MOS, and well... I'll just leave it at that. I am not Mike McConnery, I am not his representative, nor do I claim to be an American while I live in Canada. Unlike Mike McConnery,_* I would be more than happy to tell you what I think of you and your shorts, in person. Coward may have been a bit much, along with the alcohol comments, but I just think that you have a lot of nerve making non constructive comments, personal attacks, and unfounded, unresearched statements about people, their training , and their dogs*_. *I am not extending an olive branch here, just not going to entertain your junk anymore. I along with others will be more than happy to ignore you. That includes "Fatty".* I hope you have the opportunity to meet him at what ever trial you are talking about. I also hope for your sake, he isn't as angry then, as he was when you slammed him, his dogs, his decoy work, his training, his knowledge and his weight. He is young and lacks restraint...You might find that Mountain Dew bottle in a very uncomfortable place. I relish the idea of meeting you in person... and I don't stay angry- I wait. It is really too bad that you feel the need to be so abrasive all of the time. People may actually want to hear what you have to say. I may actually want to hear what you have to say- I doubt it though. Until then, please say nothing else to me or those I train with unless it's constructive and non-abrasive.  ~Justin


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## Mike Schoonbrood

This is getting pretty stupid. If any threats and personal insults are to be exchanged then please do so via PM.

The video posted in this thread is a sad example of poor decoying. I have spoken to people who attended the event and it was pretty disgusting. I am told the 2nd dog you see in that video broke his back and had to be put down. 6 dogs were seriously injured.

I don't care what anyones take on the decoying or the dogs or sports vs sport arguments are. Fact of the matter is that this does not happen every day and those dogs for damn sure ain't the only dogs in the world that do sleeve work and hit like that. If it happens to 1 dog then OK. But 6? It did not need to happen.

Thread closed.


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