# New Food Reccomendations



## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

I am currently looking for a new food to feed all my dogs. I am not interested at this point in doing a raw diet, it just wont work. I have gotten samples of different foods available and am wondering if those much more experienced in such matters can steer me in the right direction. I have samples of;

Nutro Natural Choice Lamb Meal and Rice
Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Adult
Nutro Max Natural
Nutro Max Mini Chunk
Purina Pro Plan selects Natural Turkey and Barley
Diamond naturals lamb and rice
Diamond naturals beef and rice
Diamond naturals chicken and rice
Diamond naturals 60+
Diamond Hi energy
Diamond Performance

Thanks for all input on these and any other good foods that are available.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

PMI really good food i use it. and love it keeps the wieght on working dogs. http://www.pminutrition.com/


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

steve gossmeyer said:


> PMI really good food i use it. and love it keeps the wieght on working dogs. http://www.pminutrition.com/


Here are some of the "Exclusive" line from them:
Chicken, chicken meal, rice flour, oatmeal, whole grain brown rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, etc.


But when I clicked on the ingredients of the Red Flannel Select line:
Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, soybean meal, wheat middlings, etc.

Here's Red Flannel Hi-Protein:
Meat and bone meal, ground wheat, ground yellow corn, corn gluten meal, etc.

Here's Large Breed:
Chicken by-product meal, ground wheat, ground yellow corn, brewers rice, etc.

So they have one line (PMI Nutrition, Red Flannel) that's junk, with more grain than meat and loads of corn, so you want to be careful and read the ingredients .... and look for the "Exclusive" line.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

i dont know what that red flanel stuff is i feed the exsclusive


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

it looks like they are changing things cause the food i feed i dont even see on there anymore.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Production had to stop after a cokeandmentos bottle scare.


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## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

i thought you were on raw now?


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

lol jeff jeff jeff. ill give that one to ya that was funny.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi, Greg,

The ingredients list is all that matters after you check for the “AAFCO guarantee.”

The first 4 or 5 in the list are what matter most.


“By-product meal” or “meat and bone meal” are rendered, and the lowest-quality and cheapest sources of animal protein. They also can't be standardized (so you can't know the profile from batch to batch).

I'd skip by-products as a chief ingredient. Of course, by-products are something the animal would eat.... but not as the basic ingredient.

You want a named meat or meal (“lamb” or “chicken meal,” for example, instead of the generic term “meat”) as the first ingredient.

If corn is at or near the top of the list, I'd skip the food. It's used to boost protein cheaply (instead of meat), and it does contain protein, but not protein that dogs can use well. 

Without looking them up, so this is memory only, I'd take Nutro Natural Choice over those others, and Nutro Ultra over that.

If you want a list of "better kibbles," I can send you one.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

Sam Leinweber said:


> i thought you were on raw now?


i was but braxton didn't keep weight on and he was getting obsessed with the fridge. lol and i have been to busy to get it all and make it up. im lazy id rather spend my free time training than gettin food ready.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

steve gossmeyer said:


> it looks like they are changing things cause the food i feed i dont even see on there anymore.


Yeah, they split into two lines, looks like.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

well they always were the had the exclusive and then the prime formula like the pics i posted. i dont know what this red flannel shit is. guess once the feed store runs out gotta find a new food


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

steve gossmeyer said:


> well they always were the had the exclusive and then the prime formula like the pics i posted. i dont know what this red flannel shit is. guess once the feed store runs out gotta find a new food


Well, the Exclusive looks OK.

The other line is grain-heavy.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

ill figure something out


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Connie thats what I really liked about the Diamond naturals lamb and rice. No corn wheat or soy here is the ingredients list
Lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, fish meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, beet pulp, flaxseed, natural flavor, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid. 
and a link
http://www.diamondpet.com/products/...ry_food/lamb_meal_and_rice_adult_dog_formula/


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## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-foods

i do 1/2 and 1/2 and have liked the ocean blue and lamb and apples formulas.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

timberwolf is real good food. diamond is another issue. i had two dogs get bad crystals in there urine from it


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sam Leinweber said:


> http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-foods
> 
> i do 1/2 and 1/2 and have liked the ocean blue and lamb and apples formulas.


I like that ingredient list too. (I looked at the lamb ingredients.)


I guess I still have an aversion to Diamond since their own recall, way before the current one.

But now so many are tainted that it's hard to maintain a list of companies who don't contract out the actual manufacture and then later say "We didn't know about this!"


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Tell me more about this diamond recall I had never heard of the food prior to about a week ago.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Greg Leavitt said:


> Tell me more about this diamond recall I had never heard of the food prior to about a week ago.


http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Jan06/dogs.dying.ssl.html

Yes, they have the dubious distinction of being the recall forerunner (late 2005).

Many dogs died from aflatoxin poisoning.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

http://www.harvestblend.org/ here is one im looking into the growth and maintance blend


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't know that food, but I clicked on the link.

Chicken Meal, Chicken, Ground Whole Brown Rice, Ground Whole Oats, Brewer's Rice, etc.

Odd that they use salt, but they aren't the only one. (Some actually use sugar -- in third or fourth place on the list!)

But chicken meal and then chicken in first and second place (or vice versa) -- that's more like what you want to see. 

It's kind of a lot of grain, but in reasonably-priced kibbles that's what you're going to get. The named meat and named meat meal up at the top is a good sign.

JMO


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I still swear by Canidae All Life Stages and Premium Edge (which is a Diamond product, like Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul, but has not been recalled).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> I still swear by Canidae All Life Stages and Premium Edge (which is a Diamond product, like Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul, but has not been recalled).


Yes, those are good ingredients lists.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I liked Wellness (Chicken) myself, before switching to raw. It appears more costly at first glance but you don't have to feed half as much as most other dog foods to maintain weight. The waste you pick up in the yard afterwards is alot less then most as well.:smile:


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

All of my dogs are on Canidae ALS; my cat is on Felidae with Nature's Variety raw medallions. 

I did try Diamond at one time and was not fond of it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:I did try Diamond at one time and was not fond of it.

Why, did it just taste bad???


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

haha... no, almost as bad. It gave the dogs horrendous gas, if you have to know the truth. My husband has a pug (owned before me, to be sure) that sleeps at the foot of the bed. She is fat, less one eye, half deaf, needs a dental TWICE A YEAR even with Oravet, and about the stinkiest dog you will ever smell. When all the dogs were on Diamond, I found myself trying to fall asleep on the couch in front of the TV. :lol: Really, though, even the dobermanns had a bad smell to them - almost a foul, musty body odor.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We feed Nutro Max to most the dogs. Out of 40 some dogs I have three that have problems tolerating the Max and they are on Lamb and Rice. It may not be the best there is out there, but in the past nearly 20 years, it's given me great service. Coats are good, the teeth remain very clean, stools are small and the dogs seem to have all the energy they need. I'm kind of a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" type of guy

DFrost


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

i will say that so far, since i've been mixing in the innova stuff and slowly decreasing the nutro, my dog's stools have continued to shrink. so far so good...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I've used Diamond Large Breed Adult for my fosters for a long time and it is still better than the Science Diet crap that the shelter gives me:

Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, white rice, rice bran, beet pulp, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, chondroitin sulfate, beta carotene, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, L-Carnitine, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

At $22 for a 40 lbs bag at the feed store, hard to get much cheaper unless you're feeding Ol' Roy (it's the exact same price as Purina Beneful at Wal-Mart and much better stuff). I had two leftover bags of Chicken Soup Large Breed Adult leftover from when I switched exclusively to raw (except some occasional canned) and the fosters now get that instead. Plus Maren's patented concoction of fish oil, vitamin E, ester C, raw eggs, and olive oil. 

If you're really really pinching pennies, I'd go with the Diamond Large Breed Adult, Greg. Chicken Soup and then Innova Evo is probably the next step up. (Chicken Soup is cheaper though)


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Its not even so much the price that prompted the switch I fed cannidae lamb and rice for a long time and was very hapy with it. However the only feed store that carried it closed. I know I can get it online, but I do not want to do that just a personal prefererence. I am looking for something that I can consistently get locally. May go with the nutro as our TD at club is sponsored by them and swears by and sells the food.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

I like the Timberwolforganics range (dog seems to do best on the Lamb & Apple), but strangely the formula that sounds best (Wild & Natural) did not agree with my dog (even when I cut back the quantities she still had horrendous gas and fairly loose stools).

Currently feeding Orijen which I think is excellent. Others I would feed include Natures Variety Raw Instinct, Evo and Evo RM,


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## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

I rotate kibbles everybag and right now i have the nature's variety raw instinct, it seemed like it would be the best but it did not go over well with the dog. I ended up mixing it w/ a bag of timberwolf and everything looks better right now. I was going to try the wild and natural, i'll prob. get a small bag to see how it goes over.

The only other grain-free food that i have tried goes well w/ him (solid gold barking at the moon) but i think that has the diamond affiliation so i am going to stay away from it.

Hopefully this orijen stuff expands more in the states, i don't know of any place that sells it.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I buy Canidae online from Pet Pointe. I get it 5 bags at a time for $35 a bag (which includes shipping! :mrgreen: ), and the 'made on' dates on the bags have always been within a couple of months of my receiving them. The expiration date is a year later than the 'made on' date, but, of course, it doesn't last that long. One, 40-pound bag lasts me exactly 1 month feeding 3 dogs.

The Premium Edge I get at Pet Supplies Plus!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sam, the Nature's Variety Instinct sounded good to me, but their ingredients are kind of weird to me. Tapioca, pumpkin seeds, alfalfa meal, and clay? Okay...

Chicken Meal, Tapioca, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Pumpkinseeds, Menhaden Fish Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Natural Chicken Flavor, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid), Kelp, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite), Chicken Liver, Sea Salt, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Apples, Carrots, Peas, Cottage Cheese, Chicken Eggs, Freeze Dried Chicken, Freeze Dried Turkey, Freeze Dried Turkey Liver, Freeze Dried Turkey Hearts, Ground Chicken Bone, Butternut Squash, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Persimmons, Olive Oil, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Rosemary Extract, Sage, Clove


It's just my humble opinion, but for a lot of the super duper premium foods like Innova EVO, Merrick, and Timberwolf Organics, most of them cost enough that it is just going to be cheaper to feed a decent raw diet. I fed Chicken Soup for a long time and with good results in general, but I thought I'd upgrade to Innova EVO full time. Got to thinking about it and decided that with expensive they are (like $1.50-2.00 a pound), I'll just go with raw meat in the same or lower price range. 

On another note, there's a rare perk to living in central Missouri. A vendor at the local farmer's market on Saturday cut me a deal and gave me 4 pounds of bison, 6 pounds of pork liver, and 4 pounds of lamb liver for $14. Ground bison is like $5 a pound at Wal-Mart, woo hoo!


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

not bad at all. were do you train at down there just curious?


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## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Sam, the Nature's Variety Instinct sounded good to me, but their ingredients are kind of weird to me. Tapioca, pumpkin seeds, alfalfa meal, and clay? Okay...
> 
> It's just my humble opinion, but for a lot of the super duper premium foods like Innova EVO, Merrick, and Timberwolf Organics, most of them cost enough that it is just going to be cheaper to feed a decent raw diet. I fed Chicken Soup for a long time and with good results in general, but I thought I'd upgrade to Innova EVO full time. Got to thinking about it and decided that with expensive they are (like $1.50-2.00 a pound), I'll just go with raw meat in the same or lower price range.



Chicken Soup is sold around here, i tried it and did not like what i saw as far as stool quality and keeping weight on. Other people have had the same experiences, although i know a bulldog guy that swears by it and his dog looks awesome. 

I dont like the idea of all raw because of time and out of concern that i am going to miss something or f'up. Thats just me though, someday i might change my mind. As far as price, my local pet "boutique" is far less expensive than what they price online for timberwolf, 5-7 dollars cheaper per bag.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sam Leinweber said:


> I rotate kibbles everybag and right now i have the nature's variety raw instinct, it seemed like it would be the best but it did not go over well with the dog. I ended up mixing it w/ a bag of timberwolf and everything looks better right now. I was going to try the wild and natural, i'll prob. get a small bag to see how it goes over.
> 
> The only other grain-free food that i have tried goes well w/ him (solid gold barking at the moon) but i think that has the diamond affiliation so i am going to stay away from it.
> 
> Hopefully this orijen stuff expands more in the states, i don't know of any place that sells it.


Well, if I fed kibble, I would alternate it too, and probably mix as well, choosing different protein sources.

There are several reasons, including forestalling constant-exposure allergies and adding variety (and covering more nutritional bases).


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## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> There are several reasons, including forestalling constant-exposure allergies and adding variety (and covering more nutritional bases).


that was the thinking behind it (although it was you i think who i got the idea from).


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sam Leinweber said:


> I dont like the idea of all raw because of time and out of concern that i am going to miss something or f'up. Thats just me though, someday i might change my mind. As far as price, my local pet "boutique" is far less expensive than what they price online for timberwolf, 5-7 dollars cheaper per bag.


I do still feed some canned stuff to my dogs, like the Innova EVO 95% rabbit, duck, and venison and the Solid Gold green cow tripe. I don't relish the idea of feeding "real" green tripe, so the canned will have to do. I also haven't found a good inexpensive supplier for rabbit, duck, or venison yet, so this will have to do. It's also nice for traveling. For the puppy from Kadi's litter, I'll probably feed some canned for the morning and lunch time meal and raw for dinner with the other dogs.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

FWIW, i feed royal canin GSD, with the addition of vit E, salmon oil, kelp and alfalfa, plus a glucosamine/chondritin supplement and a raw egg (+shell). the egg will probably disappear as soon as the spring egg-laying rush is over ('cause i get 'em free right now), but WTH, the dogs love 'em and it can't hurt.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> i will say that so far, since i've been mixing in the innova stuff and slowly decreasing the nutro, my dog's stools have continued to shrink. so far so good...


i'm done with the evo for now. while i do think it has helped with my dog's ears/allergies, i can't take the gas anymore. gas is much more of an issue when you ride around in a car with the dog for 10 hours a day. i'm going to try the cannidae chicken/rice...


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I have fed Natures Variety Raw Instinct with great success, it doesn't contain potato like Innova does. My friends great dane had alot of gaseous issues till they switched to raw instinct too, so if you still want to try a food of that caliber then that might be a decent alternative option.

Another option involves a cork and some duct tape, but I don't wanna be around when the build up gets too high.....


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The thing about the Nature's Variety Instinct that put me off was the somewhat weird ingredients and if anyone has an insight, feel free to let me know. Like pumpkin seeds and clay? Tapioca is certainly rather orginal...alfalfa meal is maybe a bit odd too perhaps. They'd get a bit of that from the guts of the prey items, I suppose...then again, my raw fed dogs are grazing on the grass after 3 straight days of rain.

Chicken Meal, Tapioca, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Pumpkinseeds, Menhaden Fish Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Natural Chicken Flavor, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid), Kelp, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite), Chicken Liver, Sea Salt, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Apples, Carrots, Peas, Cottage Cheese, Chicken Eggs, Freeze Dried Chicken, Freeze Dried Turkey, Freeze Dried Turkey Liver, Freeze Dried Turkey Hearts, Ground Chicken Bone, Butternut Squash, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Persimmons, Olive Oil, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Rosemary Extract, Sage, Clove


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I have fed lots of foods over the years, and consistently find myself returning to the Canidea, and the Kirkland (Costco) foods. I've also thrown in the occasional bag of Diamond lately. You name it, I've probably fed it, but I feed a lot of dogs and want foods that they can all do good on. Good stool, coat, etc. I don't want to have to have 3 or 4 types of food in the garage, one for this dog, one for that, etc. And the Canidea and Kirkland are the two foods I have found that all my dogs do well on.

I also feed some raw, so they probably get 60% kibble and 40% raw. The raw is a variety of things, but mainly chicken, I either by the 10 lb bags of quarters or hole chickens and chop them up. As far as prep time goes, it's easy. Open the bag, hand out quarters, how many depends on the dogs size and food intake. If it's a hole chicken it just takes a couple of minutes to chop it up, I usually keep the breast meat for our dinner, and hand out the rest. I also get organ meat for the dogs, heart and liver mostly, and add that in on occasion.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Kadi, I'm in the same boat. I feed a lot of dogs and I want something that is palatable to all. A food that keeps the coats looking good, plenty of energy and no allergy problems that seem to be so prevalant. I've fed Nutro for years, like it and will continue. It has served us well. Of the 45 dogs I'm feeding, I have 3 that can't tolerate the Nutro Max for one reason or another. Those 3 are on Nutro Lamb and Rice and are doing well.

DFrost


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I feed raw but use kibble for rescue dogs and when it's too crazy here to feed raw.

I used to feed Diamond Lamb & Rice until their recalls.

I use Canidae and Arkat Enhance 27/17.

I can only use kibble for about a month at a time until my dogs' health begins to suffer. Then I am back to raw again.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> i'm done with the evo for now. while i do think it has helped with my dog's ears/allergies, i can't take the gas anymore. gas is much more of an issue when you ride around in a car with the dog for 10 hours a day. i'm going to try the cannidae chicken/rice...


If you can supplement with fish oil (and E; always give Vitamin E when adding oil to a dog's food), it will help with inflammation (and will be good for his overall health, period). Also, you might be open to trying some of one and some of the other and see what happens. Someone in our club is feeding half Evo and half Wellness no-grain and is happy with the results in stool, coat, and the gas problem you mentioned.


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## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

Wellness no-grain...you mean their cat food?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sam Leinweber said:


> Wellness no-grain...you mean their cat food?



:lol:

No. They introduced some no-grain, 95% meat versions to their canned line recently:

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Wellness-95-Meat-Canned-Dog-Food/138131.aspx


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## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

i was hoping i was out of the loop and there was a dry grain-free that wellness offered, o well :-/


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sam Leinweber said:


> i was hoping i was out of the loop and there was a dry grain-free that wellness offered, o well :-/



I hope they do, too, because some of their canned foods' ingredients are the best around.


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