# Swat k9



## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

Hiya,

Does anybody have video/articles/opinions relating to dogs being used as part of a tactical team?

What type of dog (charachter)
Any issues that have to be overcome
How useful is a dog in this role
etc

Regards,

Matt


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

1. What type of dog (charachter): Rock solid nerve with excellant obediance. 

2. Any issues that have to be overcome: Working in close proximity to other officers and the possibility of a lot of noise, pyro and commotion

3. How useful is a dog in this role: Depends entirely on the role the dog is given. 

There are some excellant seminars relative the use of a dog in "SWAT" situations. Perhaps some of the other members will give some examples. 

DFrost


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I will just touch on the character portion of this question because I sell many dogs that are used in SWAT and special ops roles and I have become pretty good at selecting the type of dogs that are best suited for this work. 
The first thing that I look for is a dog that is stable and clear headed, without that all the drive and power in the world will not help you, and in fact will maybe get you or your team killed.
Of course we need a strong dog with a lot of power in the bitework, an excellent nose, a lot of drive to hunt, super environmental nerves, etc. But are these not the traits that we also need in any other police dog? In my opinion yes, those are the same triats that we need in any other police dog, but there are some handlers and some departments that we deal with who will accept a dog that is a little too "sharp" around people, maybe one that is not super clear headed and will roll so far off the edge when he is in drive that you lose control of him. In some cases on the street maybe there is a place for this type of dog, but that place is certainly not SWAT or Special Ops! The dog must be easy to handle, crystal clear headed, he must be super social with everyone on his team, and he must be able to cap and remain quiet while still in drive. HE must have the stability and clarity to remain uneffected by flash bangs going off just in front of him, people screaming and running past him, people shooting from over his head and all around him. I have seen more strong dogs that simply lose it in these situations and get so loaded that they simply can not contain themselves and have to bite something (someone usually) and most of time its the wrong person. These dogs have no place in SWAT. Almost everyone that I talk to tells me about there super strong dog that is a real killer and they think that it will make a great SWAT dog. That is usually not the case at all, normally if they really do have a very strong and crazy drive dog it is also out of control and so noisy and frantic that it would be useless as a SWAT dog.
I like to see a dog with a good natural resting character, natural capping ability, very social and stable and clear in the head. Then I proceed with the regular dual purpose selection testing process.
I am in no way saying that a SWAT dog is somehow not as strong as other dogs, in fact they need to be very strong, Im just sayig that not every strong dog is cut out for SWAT or Special Ops work.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQj3wp_eY5w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecBlXFBv3C4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYCjYyIV7KQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucah4KkRS0o

I like Rodney Spicer's methods a lot.


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## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks guys,

Hi Mike,

The type of dog you describe is EXACTLY the type of dog I thought would be required. Do you have trouble selling that kind of dog though?....I ask because if the dogs demeanour displays extreme confidence it most likely does not 'float the boats' of many people....they cant see the quality in the dog because its not running around like a nerve driven maniac and isn't trying to kill everybody in sight?

I suppose it depends upon how much your client actually knows.

I have purchased a couple of dogs like this over the last 12 months. They had been written off by their previous owners because they didnt show the typical 'frantic, hectic and unclear behaviour of many other dogs -their loss is my gain i guess 

Matt


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

matt wiggins said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> ...


Hey Matt,
Most of the clients I deal with understand what a good dog is, but yes we still have people who come here and think a "good dog" has to show his teeth and try to kill everyone around him. I am actually dealing with that very issue with a client right now. I sold a very nice dual purpose quality dog (also a SWAT quality dog) to a older guy in California last month. He saw the dog work here and loved him. The dog works strong in a muzzle, will fight a passive man curled up in the fetal position with only a verbal command, no agitation needed from the decoy at all. The dog is a monster on the suit, can not be peeled off. He is very stable in all environments, very social and clear headed. The guy just called me and said he does not like how "friendly" the dog is with people, he said he bought what he thought was going to be a hard dog and this dog has never growled at anyone yet, of shown his teeth to anyone so he doesnt think the dog is "real"](*,)


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## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

I envy the fact that the majority of your clients have a clue.....if only it was the same for me in the UK 

I seem to be ](*,)so much that the walls not there anymore lol


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Hey Matt,
> Most of the clients I deal with understand what a good dog is, but yes we still have people who come here and think a "good dog" has to show his teeth and try to kill everyone around him. I am actually dealing with that very issue with a client right now. I sold a very nice dual purpose quality dog (also a SWAT quality dog) to a older guy in California last month. He saw the dog work here and loved him. The dog works strong in a muzzle, will fight a passive man curled up in the fetal position with only a verbal command, no agitation needed from the decoy at all. The dog is a monster on the suit, can not be peeled off. He is very stable in all environments, very social and clear headed. The guy just called me and said he does not like how "friendly" the dog is with people, he said he bought what he thought was going to be a hard dog and this dog has never growled at anyone yet, of shown his teeth to anyone so he doesnt think the dog is "real"](*,)


Cool read so far. This is the top quality dog I'm looking for on my next go around. Having a naturally capping dog would be pretty kick ass. 

Mike, what's your personal position on selling dogs to people like this (ie, they "want" a 'man eater')? What purpose did this guy have with this dog? Do they end up sending the dog back to you? PM would be fine if you want. Just curious.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Cool read so far. This is the top quality dog I'm looking for on my next go around. Having a naturally capping dog would be pretty kick ass.
> 
> Mike, what's your personal position on selling dogs to people like this (ie, they "want" a 'man eater')? What purpose did this guy have with this dog? Do they end up sending the dog back to you? PM would be fine if you want. Just curious.


He wanted the dog for personal protection. I chose this dog for him because he has the kind of temperament that I beleive is perfect for personal protection work. He is stable,social, very obedient, and is very real in the bitework. He wants to return the dog next week because the dog doesnt show his teeth to strangers!!!](*,)
here area few videos of the dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC4iYosiH5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO3f7rD1GRk


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> The guy just called me and said he does not like how "friendly" the dog is with people, he said he bought what he thought was going to be a hard dog and this dog has never growled at anyone yet, of shown his teeth to anyone so he doesnt think the dog is "real"](*,)



He should probably just crate him up and send him to me. I'll find him a good home. Then that guy can go buy a real dog that barks at shadows, noises on the street and stuff. 

DFrost


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

David Frost said:


> He should probably just crate him up and send him to me. I'll find him a good home. Then that guy can go buy a real dog that barks at shadows, noises on the street and stuff.
> 
> DFrost


Well David, he will be for sale if the guy does return him. So We can work something out Im sure. He has super hunt drive and will make a very nice dual purpose or SWAT dog.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> He wanted the dog for personal protection. I chose this dog for him because he has the kind of temperament that I beleive is perfect for personal protection work. He is stable,social, very obedient, and is very real in the bitework. He wants to return the dog next week because the dog doesnt show his teeth to strangers!!!](*,)
> here area few videos of the dog.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC4iYosiH5s
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO3f7rD1GRk


I can go break into his house so he can see the true nature of his dog, lol. See if he'll pay for the trip. Save him a lot of heartache and keep him from buying a liability. Nice looking dog.


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> I can go break into his house so he can see the true nature of his dog, lol. See if he'll pay for the trip. Save him a lot of heartache and keep him from buying a liability. Nice looking dog.


Careful, Dave. You might want to think twice about that one. I have seen this dog work ...he's not an Airedale.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

I find that the best dogs for SWAT call outs are the dogs that have the most control and can search independantly (a balance that is hard for alot of teams). Regardless the most important part is the training with the unit. Making sure that everyone is comfortable working together. A SWAT dog is no different than a good patrol dog.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Ariel Peldunas said:


> Careful, Dave. You might want to think twice about that one. I have seen this dog work ...he's not an Airedale.



Oh, I got that part from the video. I thought it might convince the owner he has a very nice dog. Or are you saying i am lacking the decoy skills to handle him? lol


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## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

Very nice dog Mike....thanks for sharing the video.

I suppose some people will never learn what they should really have at the end of a lead!!


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> He wanted the dog for personal protection. I chose this dog for him because he has the kind of temperament that I beleive is perfect for personal protection work. He is stable,social, very obedient, and is very real in the bitework. He wants to return the dog next week because the dog doesnt show his teeth to strangers!!!](*,)
> here area few videos of the dog.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC4iYosiH5s
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO3f7rD1GRk


I'll take him. I'm sure I can find a dog to trade him if he's interested. He'd likely be happy with any Shepherd in the country. Must be blind.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> Oh, I got that part from the video. I thought it might convince the owner he has a very nice dog. Or are you saying i am lacking the decoy skills to handle him? lol


You could carry him all the way back to your van, save the guy shipping back to WV. :-\"


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> You could carry him all the way back to your van, save the guy shipping back to WV. :-\"


Yep. Looks like I might have to figure out how to unstick him from my left shoulder though. I have a new tool being developed by Hill Schwartzman that I might be able to use in reverse to remove the dog.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> Yep. Looks like I might have to figure out how to unstick him from my left shoulder though. I have a new tool being developed by Hill Schwartzman that I might be able to use in reverse to remove the dog.


Just some fancy footwork taking off the jacket while shutting the doors and making sure he doesn't get out at you. There's the test for your skills. Don't worry about getting him out at home; he's not real enough to be a threat.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Love the videos by the way. does he have the same intensity with the ball? May need a little work on the out. But then, if he were a SWAT dog, we'd be using the tactical out anyway. chuckle, chuckle. 

DFrost


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Just some fancy footwork taking off the jacket while shutting the doors and making sure he doesn't get out at you. There's the test for your skills. Don't worry about getting him out at home; he's not real enough to be a threat.



I'll just drive to WV with him on me. Should be fine.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> I'll just drive to WV with him on me. Should be fine.


Bring him to Philly. I'll find you a real dog to bring down to show Mike, if you're brave enough.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Bring him to Philly. I'll find you a real dog to bring down to show Mike, if you're brave enough.



LOL. I'll pass on that!! You might send me a lab..


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> LOL. I'll pass on that!! You might send me a lab..


Now you want my only dog?


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Man, wish I could buy that dog from you mike. That's the type of nerve I'm looking for.


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

I'm a Sgt on a Tactical Team with access to GP Dogs, Firearms Support Dogs and during the high end operations Military Dogs, all UK.

I think a SWAT dog should have a strong "OUT" the commander will be making decisions around the subject and the what's going on elsewhere, the dog must come off, and must "RECALL". It's my show and I won't be asking twice. The dog must not re-engage unless commanded, and must not nail the nearest officer; I've been hospitalized twice, in the last month one of team what admitted for 2 days following an arm bite.

The dog must be balanced in and around the team, briefings, in cars or all of us in the back of a van, 6 of us might be searching a house behind shields. I will call the dog through the crowded hallway, often being fed between our legs (very tight) then to clear a room ahead of us, and return to the back of the team. It's not funny getting nailed in the calf by something you can't even see below you.
Some tactics involves ramming cars, the dog can't go crazy during the collision or airbag activation. Likewise when we start smashing windows or throwing pyrotechnics.
A strong BARK is very useful tactical communication and can end jobs before they start, in my experience people still fear dogs more than guns.
No whining; some plans are simple AMBUSH tactics, a dog constantly whining is a pain for the hours we're sat up is a compromise and a pain.
Good tracker; we have to find the bad guys, he needs to track and search well. Forget this bad ass thing for SWAT dogs, it's a myth, they need to be the most balanced, driven, clear headed, social dogs. We need the clever ones not the brawlers.
I appreciate my opinion is unusual because I'm the boss on the ground demanding performance and standards, looking at the big picture for which the dog plays a small but important part if and when I want him/handler to do something; this is gold standard we want, but the organisation just won't pay ££ for, unlike the Special Forces who do.

Mark


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Mark, you have just expressed the same view as Mike Suttle then ? Just following the conversation.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Mark Horne said:


> I'm a Sgt on a Tactical Team with access to GP Dogs, Firearms Support Dogs and during the high end operations Military Dogs, all UK.
> 
> I think a SWAT dog should have a strong "OUT" the commander will be making decisions around the subject and the what's going on elsewhere, the dog must come off, and must "RECALL". It's my show and I won't be asking twice. The dog must not re-engage unless commanded, and must not nail the nearest officer; I've been hospitalized twice, in the last month one of team what admitted for 2 days following an arm bite.
> 
> ...


You and Will have really summed it up. I think the major difference between SWAT and regular patrol dogs is the amount of control required, a reliable out and recall are very important. If the dog is sent into a building and new information gets to the handler that requires him to change positions you definitely don't want a dog that won't listen to the handler.


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## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

Mark Horne said:


> The dog must not re-engage unless commanded, and must not nail the nearest officer; I've been hospitalized twice, in the last month one of team what admitted for 2 days following an arm bite.


Hi Mark,

What was the nature of these two bites? Was the dog on the criminal then came off of its own accord to bite officers or was the dog on the way back to the handler etc?

Regards,

Matt


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

The bites on me were;

Both bites to me were during armed challenges from behind cover (car) when the guns are draw it seems to trigger "drive" the first one I go nailed in the calf and dragged me out into the road , the second occasion he got my bicep and wouldn't out despite the subject running across an empty car park in front of him, eventually we levered his mouth open with an MP5.

The most recent bite to one of the team was an ambush on a moving car, it was blocked in, the boys run at it, smash the windows and drag the occupants out onto the ground, as they were kneeling on top of the subject to handcuff the dog seriously nailed one of them.

The dogs were all on short leads in every situation, I suppose pilot error was a major factor in each case; the handler's position being too close, not aware of his dog focusing on the wrong person, winding the dog up too much prior to the strike, not trained to wear a muzzle, handler making the decision to deploy as opposed to waiting for a command.
Matt, it might be easier if you just train the handlers for us

Mark


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## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

Mark Horne said:


> The bites on me were;
> Matt, it might be easier if you just train the handlers for us
> 
> Mark


All joking aside Mark I dont think you are too far away from the answer - especially in the uk!!

It amazes me when dealing with so many police forces how little the handlers are taught regarding how the dog actually works, reading drives etc etc

Would you believe (you probably would) last week I had a handler come to collect a dog, he'd just retired his 2nd operational dog - He didn't know what prey and defense drive was ](*,)!!!!!


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

matt wiggins said:


> He didn't know what prey and defense drive was ](*,)!!!!!


:-k:sad:


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Brett Bowen said:


> Man, wish I could buy that dog from you mike. That's the type of nerve I'm looking for.


Brett he makes dogs like that pretty regular. Jump in there and get ya one bud!!


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Matt i know some excellent dog trainers (not LEO) that laugh at all the infinite bickering and naming of drives.

Doesn't mean they can't handle or train a dog to do exactly what they want.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Mark Horne said:


> The bites on me were;
> 
> Both bites to me were during armed challenges from behind cover (car) when the guns are draw it seems to trigger "drive" the first one I go nailed in the calf and dragged me out into the road , the second occasion he got my bicep and wouldn't out despite the subject running across an empty car park in front of him, eventually we levered his mouth open with an MP5.
> 
> ...


I was going to cut and paste a few of the comments you made in your post. Instead I'll just there are more problems in the scenarios (even with your short descriptions) than the dog. Part of the answer is certainly where you said: " I suppose pilot error was a major factor in each case; the handler's position being too close, not aware of his dog focusing on the wrong person". I also see a whole bunch of swat and K9 not training with each other enough. I would also teach the handler's how to choke a dog off the bite, if they can't rely on an out command. 


DFrost


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## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

Hi Peter,

Me too..... and just because they don't know the 'labels' given to certain things in fairly recent years doesnt mean they aren't as good a dog man/woman as somebody who uses them.

In this case however - he barely knew the sharp end from the other let alone having any idea of a dogs state of mind in different situations!

Regards


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

matt wiggins said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> Me too..... and just because they don't know the 'labels' given to certain things in fairly recent years doesnt mean they aren't as good a dog man/woman as somebody who uses them.
> 
> ...


so let me understand this, the handler you were referring to is being given his 3rd dog. Would that not indicate he knows what he is doing, as far as handling dogs. If not his supervisors must be total morons. You would think, if he was worthless as a handler, somewhere in the operational life of the previous two dogs the handler would have incurred some serious liability. 

Just like on this forum at times, terminology gets very confusing. I'm a believer in "fight drive". Not everyone does. I still use a term that was in many years ago, "prey/kill" that you don't hear that often in the "modern" day training. Terminology, doesn't always depict the working ability of a handler or trainer. The nut cutter is application, not talking about it. 

DFrost


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Ha in a few more years i think they will have a simple fetch broken up into 50 different new sub drives. Keeps the dog training video industry profitable lol.


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## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

David Frost said:


> If not his supervisors must be total morons


Think you have just hit the nail on the head David!! 

pm sent


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Brian Anderson said:


> Brett he makes dogs like that pretty regular. Jump in there and get ya one bud!!


I know it. For a variety of reasons, that pup would just be wasted potential on me right now. 

Doesn't keep me from getting puppy fever though!!


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## Bob Vaughan (Oct 28, 2011)

Mark/Matt...........

I seem to be forever trying to defend (UK) police dog handlers from any number of put downs mostly from people who either have never worked in that environment or.............perhaps should at least understand the issues surrounding a lot of our problems.

We'd all like to have that balance of character with great drive and control that works in any situation (with a full mouthed bite of course)......unfortunately, we don't have that luxury all the time. That top quality temperament allied to top drawer handling skills is a rare thing indeed, I'm sure there are US police handlers who have all known a handler that made the job look so easy, that could 'read' a dog just by the slightest twitch of an ear, who knew more about catching the real bad guys, and whose dog was absolutely mustard when it came to 'doing the job' ...................whose only understanding of 'drive'............ was somewhere to park your car. 

The reason a lot of uk cops dont know about 'drive' is that you can train a police dog perfectly well without understanding the 'theory' just the same as you can play sport at the highest level without worrying too much about 'the why'. Drive theory has its place no doubt but it's in some danger of being just becoming another 'in thing'. 

As regards Tactical dog cock ups they usually occur because of handler inexperience, its a learning process for both dog and handler, if you cant accept that dogs and handlers will make mistakes.........write them out of the plan!. I'm not sure how the dog tactical training is undertaken in the States but in the UK its usually done entirely under the direction of non dog personnel, Firearms Instructors who in my experience, have a tendency to regard their 'primacy' over all things including the best deployment of tactical dogs. And the consequence? You end up with handlers being expected to work from 'positions' that are at best a compromise on good handling skills and usually it goes much deeper, they are essentially treated as a second class element and sooner or later that's how they begin to think. At a guess, there are far more UK Fire arms incidents resolved by the presence of the dog than the use of a gun, in which case, allow them a little more say in how they are best deployed and not just 'tacked' on at the back as an after thought.

This is first post on this site and not one that I am particularly proud of or pleased with but Ive seen too many of my colleages beaten, bitten, run over, kicked from pillar to post, bullied by crap managers, and generally put down by civilians who have never had to bear the responsibility of working a police dog in an hostile and dynamic environment where the most important operational descisions are usually undertaken within a second or so...................to not make some sort of reply on their behalf!

Apologies to our US colleages, you were kind enough to invite us 'across the pond', Howard K and Phil have both been regular contributors to the UK Protection site for some time.............and have never once disrespected their own countrymen...........says it all really.

Bob V


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob, welcome to the site. We like hearing from knowledgeable police officers and trainers from across the pond. Please tell us a little about yourself here; http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/

Enjoy the forum. Your experience will be a valuable contribution.

DFrost


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## matt wiggins (Jul 14, 2009)

QUOTE=Bob Vaughan;305803]Mark/Matt...........

I seem to be forever trying to defend (UK) police dog handlers from any number of put downs mostly from people who either have never worked in that environment or.............perhaps should at least understand the issues surrounding a lot of our problems.

We'd all like to have that balance of character with great drive and control that works in any situation (with a full mouthed bite of course)......unfortunately, we don't have that luxury all the time. That top quality temperament allied to top drawer handling skills is a rare thing indeed, I'm sure there are US police handlers who have all known a handler that made the job look so easy, that could 'read' a dog just by the slightest twitch of an ear, who knew more about catching the real bad guys, and whose dog was absolutely mustard when it came to 'doing the job' ...................whose only understanding of 'drive'............ was somewhere to park your car. 

The reason a lot of uk cops dont know about 'drive' is that you can train a police dog perfectly well without understanding the 'theory' just the same as you can play sport at the highest level without worrying too much about 'the why'. Drive theory has its place no doubt but it's in some danger of being just becoming another 'in thing'. 

As regards Tactical dog cock ups they usually occur because of handler inexperience, its a learning process for both dog and handler, if you cant accept that dogs and handlers will make mistakes.........write them out of the plan!. I'm not sure how the dog tactical training is undertaken in the States but in the UK its usually done entirely under the direction of non dog personnel, Firearms Instructors who in my experience, have a tendency to regard their 'primacy' over all things including the best deployment of tactical dogs. And the consequence? You end up with handlers being expected to work from 'positions' that are at best a compromise on good handling skills and usually it goes much deeper, they are essentially treated as a second class element and sooner or later that's how they begin to think. At a guess, there are far more UK Fire arms incidents resolved by the presence of the dog than the use of a gun, in which case, allow them a little more say in how they are best deployed and not just 'tacked' on at the back as an after thought.

This is first post on this site and not one that I am particularly proud of or pleased with but Ive seen too many of my colleages beaten, bitten, run over, kicked from pillar to post, bullied by crap managers, and generally put down by civilians who have never had to bear the responsibility of working a police dog in an hostile and dynamic environment where the most important operational descisions are usually undertaken within a second or so...................to not make some sort of reply on their behalf!

Apologies to our US colleages, you were kind enough to invite us 'across the pond', Howard K and Phil have both been regular contributors to the UK Protection site for some time.............and have never once disrespected their own countrymen...........says it all really.

Bob V[/QUOTE]

Hi Bob,

I'm not going to get too deep into this but...

I've just had a licence revoked dog given to me (free). He's been on the streets 2 years and had a number of operational bites, no issues in an operational sense except for being posessive over his ball......... sound like a good dog?

The reason he's been removed from work? Because he won't give up his ball!!!!!!

He's been here 2 days and he does now!!

I could go on and on about issues like these but really need I say more?

The thing that lacks for me in the UK, the thing that leaves us behind is passion.

I know of police trainers who won't do criminal work with certain dogs in training in case they get knocked over, Handlers who leave their dog in a stay and when they try to correct it for moving the dog growls and they back off...the list really does go on and on

I know it always looks like i'm moaning but I am trying to change the way things are. Its a never ending story.....

Due to a high number of inadequate handlers the quality of dog has to be less, the dogs of less quality achieve less on the street and in turn so does the section as a whole.....when budget cuts are made which sections are going or getting cut in numbers? The one's who don't perform.

I guess I would be right in saying that just because someone is a good police officer doesn't mean they will make a good handler?

Regards,

Matt

p.s - Nice to see you on here Bob


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ihLwkESJHU

Not too many live bites on the UK police dog shows but from the videos it seems you have a good sniffer dog(bomb and drugs) program. Those spaniels have incredibly nice drive for their toy.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

matt wiggins said:


> Hiya,
> 
> Does anybody have video/articles/opinions relating to dogs being used as part of a tactical team?
> 
> ...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYFmPw69c_k

I liked the overall drives and nerves of this dog, he's late now but from the video you may get some ideas.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ihLwkESJHU
> 
> Not too many live bites on the UK police dog shows but from the videos it seems you have a good sniffer dog(bomb and drugs) program. Those spaniels have incredibly nice drive for their toy.


 We currently have four at our kennels. They are insane.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> We currently have four at our kennels. They are insane.


It seems to be a very good option for single purpose detection, from what i see they are just as good as the average shepherd or malinois.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> It seems to be a very good option for single purpose detection, from what i see they are just as good as the average shepherd or malinois.


 Much better than the "average" Mali or GSD. I've seen very few herders with the intensity, work ethic and ability to go forever like the English Springer Spaniels we currently have. I've only seen one lab in the past 10 years that would hang with these dogs. From what I hear, ours aren't even the creme of the crop, just good dogs.

The only negative I see with them is on lead work. It takes a little work to get them to put up with the human slowing them down. The RAF use them primarily off lead.


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