# Lou Castle OUT METHOD...



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Can anyone provide me a link to a written explanation of it?

I caught myself wading through threads, I endured the post/counterpost quoting wars, and searched for longer than I care to admit, but was not successful in getting to the expalantion, it was stated a few times, in a few threads, that it would be posted.

I searched pretty well and have seen many elucidations to the method but was not able to find the explanation itself..

The closest I was able to come to it was a link to a UK board that I was not able to access. And some very short vague references to the method.

Lou, did you ever post the "revised" method here yet? I am interested in reading it. If so can you help me find it please?

If not can you post it, or if it never got fully revised, can you just cut and paste the 2500 word unrevised edition?

I am truly interested in reading it, but have to give up looking for it.

Thanks in advance....


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

This maybe should have been posted in the NO CONFLICT ZONE. 

I seriously just want to read it...


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> This maybe should have been posted in the NO CONFLICT ZONE.
> 
> I seriously just want to read it...


Have you tried his website?

DFrost


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Have you tried his website?
> 
> DFrost


Yes sir, It is not there unless it is buried somewhere, and is very hard to find....
I did also try google, and found several "dead" links. I thought the Leerburg board might hold the info, but it was not there either, just more links to nowhere..


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I got him on speed dial if you'd like the number so you can ask him in person.


----------



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

http://www.loucastle.com/


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

I'm gonna work on the article for the website today. Thanks for reminding me. If you have an emergency and need it right now, shoot me a PM with your phone number.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

This isn't the method using the electrified sharpened prong collar with the taser option and the old style DT e-collar on the dogs
testicles, is it?


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> This isn't the method using the electrified sharpened prong collar with the taser option and the old style DT e-collar on the dogs
> testicles, is it?



Let's wait and see, shall we?

And meanwhile, let's not have a Thomas/Lou sub-thread.



eta
And stop trying to get the "most inappropriate use of smilies" trophy away from Jeff. :lol:


----------



## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> I'm gonna work on the article for the website today. Thanks for reminding me. If you have an emergency and need it right now, shoot me a PM with your phone number.



This gave me the funniest image of someone working a dog and having an "out" emergency, getting out their smart phone and PMing someone while a dog is still hanging off their decoy. 

Now that I wrote it down, it doesn't seem as funny, but what the hell.


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> This isn't the method using the electrified sharpened prong collar with the taser option and the old style DT e-collar on the dogs
> testicles, is it?


 Thomas, I remember that in the days of the old Mal board. You once posted a unique pic of ecollars and the body wrap method of wearing a collar for young dogs.

Perhaps you could re post that pic.


:lol:


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Thomas, I remember that in the days of the old Mal board. You once posted a unique pic of ecollars and the body wrap method of wearing a collar for young dogs.
> 
> Perhaps you could re post that pic.
> 
> ...


Jerry,

I don't recall that pic :-(


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Jerry,
> 
> I don't recall that pic :-(


u have a PM


----------



## Rina Rivamonte (Jan 11, 2011)

Dave Colborn said:


> This gave me the funniest image of someone working a dog and having an "out" emergency, getting out their smart phone and PMing someone while a dog is still hanging off their decoy.
> 
> Now that I wrote it down, it doesn't seem as funny, but what the hell.


Heh you made me laugh. 

Sent from my Droid 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Rina Rivamonte said:


> Heh you made me laugh.
> 
> Sent from my Droid 2 using Tapatalk


It is the ...............
Out App ....


Yep, I had a big laugh. Very Funny


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> I'm gonna work on the article for the website today. Thanks for reminding me. If you have an emergency and need it right now, shoot me a PM with your phone number.


Hey Lou,
It is not a speed dial emergency, I just would like to read it.. How long you think you are going to be working on it? If it is gonna be a while, can you post condensed older version? 
Please post when you can..

I "think" I know it involves usually 4 decoys, and the recall, and I assume (maybe incorrectly) the e-collar..That is about all have gleaned...(or think I have gleaned)

Thanks


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I "think" I know it involves usually 4 decoys, and the recall, and I assume (maybe incorrectly) the e-collar..That is about all have gleaned...(or think I have gleaned)
> 
> Thanks


Joby,

I hope you're mistaken. An out method that requires FOUR decoys isn't going to be real useful for most of us


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Joby,
> 
> I hope you're mistaken. An out method that requires FOUR decoys isn't going to be real useful for most of us


Thomas, it is not with four live decoys.

Four decoy dolls and pins are used.


NOT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Thomas, it is not with four live decoys.
> 
> Four decoy dolls and pins are used.
> 
> ...


Jerry,

I thought you had to be Haitian to use that method?


----------



## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

I can see Lou getting that phone call- "Hey Lou, do you have a minute? I sorta have a little problem.....can you hold a second? OUT!!....OUT!! Yeah, I still have a problem"


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Pete Stevens said:


> I can see Lou getting that phone call- "Hey Lou, do you have a minute? I sorta have a little problem.....can you hold a second? OUT!!....OUT!! Yeah, I still have a problem"


I have gotten a couple of "emergency phone calls" but none quite that urgent. LOL. 

To dispel a rumor, it works very well with 4 decoys but due to having to live in the real world, it's usually done with 2. The decoys don't have to be highly skilled, just able to follow simple instructions and willing to take a bite, wear a suit and stand still when the dog outs. The average LEO K-9 handler, who rarely is a "skilled" decoy, works just fine. 

I spent most of yesterday working on the article and I'll probably finish it up tonight. I'm being slowed a bit by the flu and cold meds. Sniff sniff


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Lou Castle said:


> I have gotten a couple of "emergency phone calls" but none quite that urgent. LOL.
> 
> To dispel a rumor, it works very well with 4 decoys but due to having to live in the real world, it's usually done with 2. The decoys don't have to be highly skilled, just able to follow simple instructions and willing to take a bite, wear a suit and stand still when the dog outs. The average LEO K-9 handler, who rarely is a "skilled" decoy, works just fine.
> 
> I spent most of yesterday working on the article and I'll probably finish it up tonight. I'm being slowed a bit by the flu and cold meds. Sniff sniff


 There is going to be a shortage of Lou Dolls. ](*,)


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> There is going to be a shortage of Lou Dolls. ](*,)



I prefer to think of them as "action figures!"


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> I prefer to think of them as "action figures!"


chuckle, chuckle.

DFrost


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Lou Castle said:


> I prefer to think of them as "action figures!"


 Glowing red hot stick pins in plastic dolls. Your good


----------



## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Lou Castle said:


> I prefer to think of them as "action figures!"



Who knew Lou had a sense of humor, that's just funny!!!


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

OK Lou I went to Toys R'Us last night and picked up 4 policeman action figures.

I already had both dog and decoy toys.


What's next ?


----------



## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> OK Lou I went to Toys R'Us last night and picked up 4 policeman action figures.
> 
> I already had both dog and decoy toys.
> 
> ...


Tweezers, 2 feet of nylon 3/8 inch cord, calamine lotion, and one buzz light year.
J/J Lou I have no clue where going with technical instruction. 

@ Thomas, do you have a hit list over there? 
1.Butch C.
2 Lou Castle
3. David F.
4 Chris Smith
5. Percy Longfellow
6. Dominic D.

Love list (inferior intelligence and can't give good explanations)
1. Fred Hassen


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Tweezers, 2 feet of nylon 3/8 inch cord, calamine lotion, and one buzz light year.
> J/J Lou I have no clue where going with technical instruction.
> 
> @ Thomas, do you have a hit list over there?
> ...


 I'm in trouble then. I got ripped for my Buzz.

Oh well, back to the store. No more street shit for me.

I wonder if I can sub a Wonder Women.


----------



## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> I wonder if I can sub a Wonder Women.


Yes but you must take the eyes off to avoid unwarranted eye contact which may lead to a slow out.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Tweezers, 2 feet of nylon 3/8 inch cord, calamine lotion, and one buzz light year.
> J/J Lou I have no clue where going with technical instruction.
> 
> @ Thomas, do you have a hit list over there?
> ...


Timmy,

What's the problem? You can't maintain two separate thoughts and have to comment to me in a reply to Jerry C? There is no hit list. If Butch doesn't post here spewing spam, nonsense and would actually answer questions there wouldn't be a problem.
If the other people would post using their real names there wouldn't be a problem. As far as Lou Castle? I just don't happen to share his high opinion of himself ;-)
Fred Hassen hasn't posted here in months. Put down the bong Timmy and try to keep up with what's going on today.


----------



## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Timmy,
> 
> What's the problem? You can't maintain two separate thoughts and have to comment to me in a reply to Jerry C? There is no hit list. If Butch doesn't post here spewing spam, nonsense and would actually answer questions there wouldn't be a problem.
> If the other people would post using their real names there wouldn't be a problem. As far as Lou Castle? I just don't happen to share his high opinion of himself ;-)
> Fred Hassen hasn't posted here in months. Put down the bong Timmy and try to keep up with what's going on today.


LOL, the bong is in the shed. I love you man and I also love when Butch puts a post up. Really makes my day. Seriously, I like when you go after Max Hardcore(Butch C.)


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> I'm in trouble then. I got ripped for my Buzz.
> 
> Oh well, back to the store. No more street shit for me.
> 
> I wonder if I can sub a Wonder Women.


Is the Wonder Woman anatomically correct?


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Is the Wonder Woman anatomically correct?


 Thomas, It's an Action Figure, what do you think. Isn't yours.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Thomas, It's an Action Figure, what do you think. Isn't yours.



I think it is but I'll have to verify when I can get the LC action figure off of her ;-)


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I would just like to read it, after seeing repeated references to it all over the net.

Thanks Lou, keep me posted.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

bump...........


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Hey Lou, do you type one finger. It sure is taking a long time to get your piece.


----------



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Hey Lou, do you type one finger. It sure is taking a long time to get your piece.


Lou can out type anyone one the internet . Were you guys that kids on road trips that constantly yelled " Are we there yet ! " before the car even pulled out of the driveway ? 

The guy said he was sick . Give him a break .


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Hey Lou, do you type one finger. It sure is taking a long time to get your piece.


Back when I was working and a supervisor would ask if a lengthy, complex, report I was working on was done I always gave this reply. "Do you want it fast or do you want it right?" 

In any case the artice is done. It's close to 7,000 words and it includes some material that is related, but is not directly connected to training the out. 

I'm going to put it in a separate thread so that people looking for the info don't have to wade through 4 pages to get to it. 

You can see it HERE.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks for the link Lou. 
I appreciate it...


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lou I do have a question or two.

First off, thanks for making the article available for reading here.
Upon reading it, it seems like a very sound philosophy to me to accomplish the end result. A recall under "combat drive" circumstances, and the ability to direct the dog to various targets.

Do you feel the method can be modified to only use one decoy, if the goal in the beginning is just to get the "out" (release) and the recall. Perhaps by walking around in heeling under control and resending on initial decoy? Or having that decoy move to another position after dog is recalled and is heeling away? Or will this create some conflict with the actual out/recall of the dog, if the intial goal is just an out/recall, and not being able to direct the dog to bite a second person. Do the multiple decoys serve a function to get the dog to out more easily off the bite, by providing more options for biting?

I did read the whole thing and as I said it looks like a great method to accomplish the goal. It was a little light on explaining the method of the actual release, unless it really is just that simple.

Aside from the topic of modification to just one decoy, assume there is 2 or 4 decoys, since that may be integral to the method.

Just so I have this correct...

Dog is sent to bite first decoy, short fight, lock up, and recall command is given. If dog does not out then continuous stim at very low level with repeated commands. The stim is used until the dog is on his way back to the handler, and then is cut off, dog is praised for the recall and after controlled heeling is sent to another decoy. The stim is not stopped for the out, only when the dog is coming back to handler, and if dog re-engages, no fight, repeat process.

So as far as the actual OUT (recall) is concerned, omitting the other goals of the method, it is basically a waiting game with multiple recall commands and low level stim until dog is recalling, with repetition for failure. Is that correct? 

One other concept that is a little unclear for me is the actual use of the pinch/leash in the method. In the beginning of the article it is used to stop dog from lunging and to get a controlled heel. What to do with the pinch is not discussed in the rest of the article. 

Is it used at all to complete the recall and heeling once the biting occurs, or is dog allowed to break recall and re-engage the decoy, to repeat the process, and just ecollar with low level stim is used for those functions?

Thanks again for posting it. Answer if you have the time...

Joby


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

moved to the no conflict zone...


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

NEVERMIND........lol

GO HERE.

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f9/training-out-lou-castle-method-19314/


----------

