# Looking for low shedder schutzhund dog



## Ricardo Santiago (Aug 1, 2014)

Hello,
I have been looking for a schutzhund capable dog that doesn't shed much. So far I've got:
- American Bulldog
- Doberman
- Cane Corso
- Beauceron
- Rottweiler
Beaucerons seem ok but I've heard it takes 3 years for their brain to be fully developed so I shouldn't expect much. I don't want to wait 3 years to get a title.
Rottweilers are not banned in my country, but they have quite bad restrictions.
For the first 3 breeds that I mentioned, which will give me better overall scores? I'm guessing the Doberman but want to hear the opinion of an enthusiastic/trainer.
This will be my first dog competing for schutzhund or any kind of sports that involve PP.

Thanks.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ricky, the WDF requires a full, real name in order to post here. It's in the rules.
You also need to post a bit of information about your self in the Member's Bio Forum here.
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/

Thanks
WDF Moderators


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Doberman or Rottweiler is what most would pick in they are not using the big 3.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Giant Schnauzer. Just ran into a woman last weekend who has an IPO3 on hers.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi, Ricky, I sent you a PM.

We'll fix your login and reopen your thread as soon as you send your real name via PM. 

Thanks!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks, Rick! And welcome to WDF!


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I would take dobermans off the list myself, they shed loads, I have to sweep/vacuum every day. 

My Mali sheds the least EXCEPT when she is blowing her undercoat out in summer.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

What about a short haired dutch shep?


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

As close to no shed as you'll get....Airedale...DDR line


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Ricardo Santiago said:


> Hello,
> 
> Beaucerons seem ok but I've heard it takes 3 years for their brain to be fully developed so I shouldn't expect much. I don't want to wait 3 years to get a title.
> Rottweilers are not banned in my country, but they have quite bad restrictions.
> ...


I guess what bothers me about this is the *expectation* that you will get a title within (or before) 3 years. I don't know your canine background but if this is your first time actually competing then I have found that doing such things for the first time always take longer than you expect them to.
Dogs are individuals and even within the breed can have a great variation of behavior and there is no guarantee that the puppy you pick out will perform to your time table. 
And the other thing that bothers me is that you are only hunting for scores.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> ..........You also need to post a bit of information about your self in the Member's Bio Forum here.
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/
> 
> Thanks
> WDF Moderators


Can you tell us a little something about yourself? Your previous experience with dogs maybe?


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## Claire Poissonniez (Feb 11, 2011)

Beaucerons actually shed quite a bit. You'd be surprised at the dark tumbleweeds of hair I find.


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## Terry Berns (Jun 17, 2010)

Rottweilers shed a lot! I have 2 of them, I vacuum and wash my floors every day...mine drool when they're hot. 
IMO, maturity is not necessarily a breed trait, it depends on the temperament of the puppy as to what you will get. You really shouldn't be stressing a puppy's joints anyways, do bitework with flag, tracking and start OB, make it fun. You, the handler, needs to recognize when you are meeting their threshold of attention and physically tired before it turns into boredom. 
Good luck! Most of us have screwed up our first dog...just try to find a qualified, fair trainer to work with.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Scores depend on:
1.Quality of the dog
2. Quality and experience of handler and training helper
3. Quality of the supportive cast (club) and training system. 
4, Level of discipline and perseverance of the handler. 

Good dobermans are out there but extremely difficult to find (coming from someone who has put 10 Sch3/IPO3 titles on 2 different Doberman's. The biggest drawback are health problems, and in terms of working ability nerve problems. It is probably only going to get worse with the limited gene pool of working line dogs, and the high level of very tight breedings over the past 10 years. 

Persoanally I have never seen a good Airdale or Beuceron in a trial. Does not mean they do not exist, I have just never personally seen what I would call a good one. None of my Dobermans (I have had 9 of them in the past 32 years) shed anything close to what my GSD does.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

As Sarah said, you shouldn't plan to title your dog before he's three years old. Just train a day at a time and if he ends up being able to title at 2, great, but training in this sport takes a long time and a lot of commitment. Most dogs outside of shepherds and malinois take 3+ years to full mature, if not longer, from the dog's I've been around. And even they can take quite a while depending on their genetics and upbringing. 

As previously stated, Rottweilers DO shed quite a bit. Mine sheds basically as much as my shepherd.

Good luck with whichever you choose, don't try to rush through his/her training and create problems it will take even longer to fix.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Sarah Platts said:


> And the other thing that bothers me is that you are only hunting for scores.


I absolutely hear you but I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is just looking to increase his odds of success, all other things equal.

At this point I realize it can be irritating to see such a statement, about scores, but I can see myself having said something similar when I was first getting involved in the sport. It's possible he'll really become dedicated to training and just wants to stack the deck in his favor out the gate.

For instance, Boxers are another breed that don't shed a ton (they still _do _shed though), but I would steer him clear of them if he actually wants a chance at standing on an all-breed podium with his first IPO dog. Of course it's possible, just not as likely, in my opinion.


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## Ricardo Santiago (Aug 1, 2014)

Hey guys thanks for your help.
I do own a dog. He knows 5 basic commands, couple fun tricks and a bit of tracking. He lacks the temperament to do bitework, very soft guy.
Not very experienced but I'm really enjoying training him. It feels rewarding to see results after a while and then just watch him getting better and better at it. I also have lots of free time so it keeps me entertained.
About the scores, I have no idea what to expect but I'll be happy with the 1st title. I want to get more into dog training. IPO is popular and seems a complete sport to me.
And yes, I know that breed doesn't mean everything. Will get it from a working line, preferably something around $750. What can I expect for that price? Like I said, just IPO1 title would make me happy.



Matt Vandart said:


> My Mali sheds the least EXCEPT when she is blowing her undercoat out in summer.


I always thought Malis shed a lot. Also got a PM from a guy saying that food matters.



Ricardo, please see http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBul...r-schutzhund-dog-40665/index3.html#post623457


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"I always thought Malis shed a lot. Also got a PM from a guy saying that food matters".

The individual dogs can vary a ton also. 

My short coated GSD shed WAY more then my long coated GSD. 

Both drop heavy undercoat in the spring and early summer but the short coated dog shed constantly and not just a little.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

lower and non-shedding breeds used in schH

Belgian Laekenois
Briard
Giant Schnauzer
Bouvier
Russian Terrier


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Ricardo Santiago said:


> And yes, I know that breed doesn't mean everything. Will get it from a working line, preferably something around $750. What can I expect for that price? Like I said, just IPO1 title would make me happy.


Where are you located that good working line dogs can be had for that price?


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

is it mean to say he's in Unicorn Valley, where low shedders with drive to spare are bought for a song and not for their hair, where the food is in question to feedeth the beast because someone wants only the best for the least?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Catherine Gervin said:


> is it mean to say he's in Unicorn Valley, where low shedders with drive to spare are bought for a song and not for their hair, where the food is in question to feedeth the beast because someone wants only the best for the least?


Not sure if that is mean. :lol:


But I would also like to read the answer to this:


leslie cassian said:


> Where are you located that good working line dogs can be had for that price?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

But first, Ricardo, please don't forget your intro at http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f20/


Thank you!


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

it has been my experience thusfar that buying and raising a happy, healthy, sound working dog is EXPENSIVE because one wants to get that high-caliber puppy, and that may or may not cost A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN A MEASELY 750$ but that is the tip of the iceberg. good vet care and quality food to feed the machine that is the hard-working pup being asked to handle lots of physical and mental challenges, good n' alluring bait to be used while training and toys and leashes and collars and crates and bedding and paper towels and ziploc bags and grooming equiptment (be your pup a shedder or not, they will require some level of grooming, and the dogs who need their fur stripped because they do not shed "at all" need professional maintenance) and gas and training club fees and entrance fees and it is nearly as expensive as raising a child, i swear. there are chances to save or splurge, to be sure, but this is not a low-cost hobby/pursuit and that includes the time one invests to do it well and do it right--fast food convenience and price gets you a comperable experience...this is something to pursue for the long haul and it takes however long it takes and it cost more than one might like it to cost...i feel that this is such, but i'm new to this, so i might be way off.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nice dose of reality for the op Catherine! :grin: :wink:


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

thanx...just trying to drive home the reality as it has unfolded for me, personally...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> Giant Schnauzer. Just ran into a woman last weekend who has an IPO3 on hers.


I've seen a few good Giant Schnauzers in IPO. For me they are the "rough and ready" dogs. I know someone who does Avalanche and IPO with them. In Avalanche she is often Swiss Champion and in IPO has done creditable work.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've just seen that Sue Tuck has mentioned the Laekenois:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgGKij9HSWg


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

Don't want to be repetitive but Airedales basically don't shed and they are proven VPG competitors.
Had Giant Schnauzers 20 years...I put VPG3 on both my giants and Airedales.
Your $ 750 limit is an interesting cut off,in view of the time and money invested for attaining a Vpg 1


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## Julie Starbuck (Feb 16, 2014)

Airedales do not shed at all.


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

i tend to agree w/the OP on pup prices - i refuse to believe that you have to be a rich person to gain entrance into a club w/a good working dog. if so, then shame on the breeders that have caused it to be that way.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Julie Starbuck said:


> Airedales do not shed at all.



Julie, please post a bit about yourself and you involvement in dogs in the Member Bios Forum here
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/

It's a WDF requirement.
Your posts will be blocked until you comply.

Thank you
WDF Moderators


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm a retired dog groomer and i can say without a shadow of a doubt that ALL DOG SHED, even poodles!
With that said the biggest shedders are Shepherds, Rotties, American Bulldogs, herders of any type, and then the terrier and poodles types dogs. If you want a truly low shed breed try a Standard Xolo. They have good size, terriable teeth and no hair at all. I have no clue how trainable this primitive breed might actually be. But i would be cool to see one doing protection. As for the comments on Airdales don't shed. Bullfeathers! I can pack a slicker brush in a few strokes on any Aridale i've ever groomed. But if you paid to have the dog professionally hand stripped then you could really keep the shedding of the undercoat down to a dull roar. Rather looks for a good working dog and find a trusted groomer if you object to dog hair. (Heck i think dog hair is a condiment!) Karen


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

kristin tresidder said:


> i tend to agree w/the OP on pup prices - i refuse to believe that you have to be a rich person to gain entrance into a club w/a good working dog. if so, then shame on the breeders that have caused it to be that way.


Breeders charge what the market will bear. If you think good working dogs should be available at a lower price, I encourage you to start breeding them and make them available to good working homes. 

And as Catherine pointed out in an earlier post, cost of the puppy is just one small part of what it costs to own, train and compete with a dog.


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

Karen M Wood said:


> I'm a retired dog groomer and i can say without a shadow of a doubt that ALL DOG SHED, even poodles!
> With that said the biggest shedders are Shepherds, Rotties, American Bulldogs, herders of any type, and then the terrier and poodles types dogs. If you want a truly low shed breed try a Standard Xolo. They have good size, terriable teeth and no hair at all. I have no clue how trainable this primitive breed might actually be. But i would be cool to see one doing protection. As for the comments on Airdales don't shed. Bullfeathers! I can pack a slicker brush in a few strokes on any Aridale i've ever groomed. But if you paid to have the dog professionally hand stripped then you could really keep the shedding of the undercoat down to a dull roar. Rather looks for a good working dog and find a trusted groomer if you object to dog hair. (Heck i think dog hair is a condiment!) Karen


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

In larger print
Ya got me Airedales shed very little...as far as a slicker pulling out hair as indication of shedding especially seasonal Bullfeathers 
BTW the breed are Airedales 
http://bunkblog.net/dog-information/shedding/do-airedale-terriers-shed#.VAjMaGK9KSM


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> Breeders charge what the market will bear. If you think good working dogs should be available at a lower price, I encourage you to start breeding them and make them available to good working homes...


I do - but that's been hashed over in other threads already.


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

My bad i typoed and lost an E in Airedale. And they do shed, but they don't blow coat like a huskie or shepherd. I've groomed about a dozen over 10 years and they could all pack a slicker brush with undercoat.
But they were pets and not stripped show dogs. Same with the poodles, standards can actually shed pretty good but the dead hairs don't fall out because of the curl. 
Still get the best working dog and then work around the coat.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Julie, please post a bit about yourself and you involvement in dogs in the Member Bios Forum here
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/
> 
> It's a WDF requirement.
> ...


She's the founder of Starbucks what more intro does one need.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ben Thompson said:


> She's the founder of Starbucks what more intro does one need.



The one required by WDF.


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