# For Jeff or anyone who knows what Jeff is thinking...:)



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Not intending to open a can of worms here. I have read a lot of your posts on here regarding various topics.

My question is this....

You often make statements about HIGH THRESHOLDS....Mostly in regards to breeding dogs...and ENS etc. etc...

Can you please explain what exactly you mean by this? (what thresholds)

I know what I think of as thresholds in regards to training and dogs. I just spent a couple hours reading posts on here and have seen the repeated mentioning of "high thresholds", was just wondering exactly what YOU mean by the term.

Again just hopefully looking for a simple definition...
Thanks


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Not intending to open a can of worms here. I have read a lot of your posts on here regarding various topics.
> 
> My question is this....
> 
> ...


:-o


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> :-o


Dammit shoulda wussed out and posted in the conflict free zone....LOL (feel a storm coming....)

There are thresholds for so many things. Am curious what the term "high thresholds" means to Jeff, as to better understand what is meant by the general term when tossed out at random moments.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Thresholds "generally" refer to the amount of stimulus required to ilicit a response. A response from a dog is "generally" referred to in terms of "drives", most often "defense". Whether or not, that's correct in Jeff's language, I'm not certain. You certainly don't have a single threshold level responsible for all the dog's responses, but at the same time, some a partially interconnected as to affect similar responses. Then there's exceptional circumstances/contexts for each. For example, "toy drive" may be high value for a ball, but not for a tug, or "prey drive" intense for one kind of animal, but not another.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Thresholds "generally" refer to the amount of stimulus required to ilicit a response. A response from a dog is "generally" referred to in terms of "drives", most often "defense". Whether or not, that's correct in Jeff's language, I'm not certain. You certainly don't have a single threshold level responsible for all the dog's responses, but at the same time, some a partially interconnected as to affect similar responses. Then there's exceptional circumstances/contexts for each. For example, "toy drive" may be high value for a ball, but not for a tug, or "prey drive" intense for one kind of animal, but not another.


I know what they are...

He apparently has a negative opinion of high thresholds as he puts it, or thinks certain breeding practices or breeders produce higher thresholds...

Was just wondering which thresholds he was refering to, as it is a common theme thrown out there.

I can think of a few areas where I prefer high thresholds..
Again hoping to nail down what is meant. I saw him recently chastise someone for not asking him why he thought a certain way. So I thought I would just ask....


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm pretty sure he's speaking of drive thresholds.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> I'm pretty sure he's speaking of drive thresholds.


Gotcha....I'll wait to see...I am not sure what ENS has to do with drive thresholds...and pretty sure he would like a high threshold for defense from what I have been reading.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

When I first got this dog. I got 2 phone calls and more than 1 email from people telling me (uninvited) that the dog would not bark LOL, ( I thought this was kinda foolish) that the thresholds would be too high. These guys apparently thought they had knowledge of what the dog would be like (or they were just bagging on the breeder.) They were wrong, LOL.

This has nothing to do with Jeff or his posts, just a side note.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I know why your name looks familiar. You were on the Chicagoland board. I remember a few years back you bought a suit and were hoping for some business.

I remember someone stressed you out at one of those goof PP shows people like to do there. Now it is making sense.

Since you are all about learning and have looked through my posts over and over lets just have a little test of what you have learned about my thought process.

How does ENS "work" according to it's author ??

How do they verify the findings on ENS ??

What happens to a dog whose thresholds are too high to maintain in the bitework ??

Why would that be important...providing you get the answer right.

Does a threshold matter, really ?? If it does, then how so ??


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I know why your name looks familiar. You were on the Chicagoland board. I remember a few years back you bought a suit and were hoping for some business.
> 
> I remember someone stressed you out at one of those goof PP shows people like to do there. Now it is making sense.
> 
> ...


Oh man test for Joby Oh PLEASE professor can we have your lecture first PLEASE!!!! Your going to do it rite PLEASE!!!!!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You need to work on having a clue, and spelling. I really have no clue what you are saying.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You need to work on having a clue, and spelling. I really have no clue what you are saying.


NO not the spin move shit Joby's tripped you up


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I am sorry, what did you say ?? You tripped over what ?? I am upright, I just want to see after all that research and reading he says he did, did he learn anything.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I know why your name looks familiar. You were on the Chicagoland board. I remember a few years back you bought a suit and were hoping for some business.
> 
> I remember someone stressed you out at one of those goof PP shows people like to do there. Now it is making sense.
> 
> ...


Just saw this..

Yeah that whole subject went south on that board with the ghetto reference that I made...( guy was black ) in regards to him talking about stealing a bunch of equipment and trading it for a 40 ouncer or a pack of newports..called it like I saw it..just for the record I am not a racist, have many black friends...

The owners of that board actually closed it down because the guy you are referring to stole *their* entire show (scenarios, scoring and name) and then advertised it on *their* board, which I had a big problem with at the time as well, forgive me for sticking up for some good people that put the effort in to something. 

Too bad that was a good board as well... many people here frequented it...

we worked out our differences over time...

until it went south again...

when he actually PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED a 5 foot 100 lb GIRL that I was sitting next to at an event in front of 150+ people. he is (6'2"-6'3", 250+)...He was tossed out of there quickly, legal actions pending..seems like his thresholds are a little TOO LOW to me. a little unstable...

I personally steer clear of this guy whenever possible.

Jeff, in reference to your comment about me getting a suit a couple years ago, and trying to get some business...

I bought my first suit in 1996, used sleeves and a couple of other people's suits for about 3 years before that...I've owned quite a few suits since then..bought more than a couple from people on this board. I am by no means a GREAT "decoy" but am proficient...whether you think so or not. 

Have I made money working dogs yes. Do I charge money to work dogs, it depends. Does dog training have a value? sure it does...Not sure why you get your panties in a bunch when other people charge a few bucks, and then turn around and hold your own decoy training seminar (charging money), when it *appears* you failed your 1 attempt to certify as a decoy. Were you trying to drum up business by recommending that I go to a seminar, shortly before you are holding one??? LOL 

You seem very knowledgeable and are probably a decent "decoy" and I am sure people can learn from your experience, if I came I am sure I would learn something as well.. maybe you could teach me how to slip a bite at bare minimum

Again you respond with the personal stuff...Not interested in a pissing match...Not looking to take your "quizzes".. 

I was just asking what you meant by thresholds, as there are a NUMBER of different thresholds concerning a dogs temperament, at least the way I see it. I assume you mean some sort of drive threshold..But a general term of high thresholds (plural) is not clear to me...

There is also a consideration to the intensity of drives and duration of drives, nerves etc.. (that are separate from the actual "thresholds") that come into play...at least the way I see it.

If you would care to explain what you mean by this I would love to give an answer. I still can't nail down the actual meaning of the question in my mind. 

"What happens to a dog whose thresholds are too high to maintain in the bitework ??"

Depends on what *you* mean exactly by *maintain* the thresholds, and which *thresholds* you are talking about (which I still don't know). My answer would also depend on the age of the dog, what you are trying to accomplish in the bite work, what the drive intensity is, and the duration of the drives is and what the dogs nerves are like. 

Without knowing what you mean exactly, my GUESS based on assuming what YOU might mean would be this.

The dog might be flat, might lack intensity, might get bored easily, might be boring to work, might take a lot of energy to work, might have to be worked in short sessions, making progress slower, might require some sort of intensity building maybe through prey guarding, tie out work, night work, fence work or whatever else the decoy could do to work on lowering the thresholds, and bring the intensity up.

It was a simple honest question, and I figured I would ask since you invited someone else to ask you to clarify what you meant. I wasn't looking to get into a bashing session. A simple answer would be great...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Someone please PM any mod to explain how this is not another forum's stuff dragged to this one, if they want to reopen it. Thanks.


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