# Jenny Mill



## James Downey

Does anyone know where you can purchase a jenny mill?


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## Anne Vaini

Look on a scummy APBT site...


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## James Lechernich

Anne Vaini said:


> Look on a scummy APBT site...


WTH? 




Anyways, jennis are hard to find these days because a lot of millmakers have stopped selling them. DIY plans still exist but most people opt for slat/carpet mills because they're generally cheaper, less conspicuous, and offer equal or better results with minimal risk.


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## Guest

I know not a Jenni, but these are great....

http://www.grandcarpetmill.com/


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## James Downey

James Lechernich said:


> WTH?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, jennis are hard to find these days because a lot of millmakers have stopped selling them. DIY plans still exist but most people opt for slat/carpet mills because they're generally cheaper, less conspicuous, and offer equal or better results with minimal risk.


Thanks James and Jody.


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## Connie Sutherland

Anne Vaini said:


> Look on a scummy APBT site...




My reaction too. I didn't know the term referred also to the equipment without the trapped small animal "bait."


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## Kyle Sprag

Connie Sutherland said:


> My reaction too. I didn't know the term referred also to the equipment without the trapped small animal "bait."


I hope you are kidding? #-o


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## Connie Sutherland

Kyle Sprag said:


> I hope you are kidding? #-o



No, I'm not kidding. Different terms for regular treadmill.


Probably depends on locale.


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## Kyle Sprag

Connie Sutherland said:


> No, I'm not kidding. Different terms for regular treadmill.
> 
> 
> Probably depends on locale.


 
A treadmill and a Jenny are two different things. One moves round and round under the dog and one the dog Runs around. :lol:


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## James Lechernich

Kyle Sprag said:


> A treadmill and a Jenny are two different things. One moves round and round under the dog and one the dog Runs around. :lol:


Connie is referring to the term, 'catmill', for the people who sometimes hung caged cats/racoons in front of a dog running a jenni as motivation to work harder. However, 'jenni/jenny' is the older, more commonly used term(as well as the habit of *not* using bait animals).


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## Guest

James Downey said:


> Thanks James and Jody.


I used an old car axle extended with concrete in the ground to get the smooth circular motion and then attached four 6 or 8 foot steel poles with cables and allowed four dogs to run on it. I used this with sled dogs and was great.

I used the carpet mill for working dogs to build some muscle and burn some energy when I wasn't able to work them, worked fantastic, however a little loud for my taste as I had it inside the house. Also, belts need to be replaced yearly.

A buddy of mine told me to go to craigslist and I purchased a regular treadmill for people for 150.00 and have had it over 9 months with no issues. Just modified it with a crossbar. Now I dont even need to condition the dog to it, they fight to get on it and just run. (Obvioulsy it is on the slowest step first and never done unsupervised) 

Food for thought I guess depending on what you intentions are....hope that helps out.


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## Kyle Sprag

James Lechernich said:


> Connie is referring to the term, 'catmill', for the people who sometimes hung caged cats/racoons in front of a dog running a jenni as motivation to work harder. However, 'jenni/jenny' is the older, more commonly used term(as well as the habit of *not* using bait animals).


 
No Connie wrote: "different terms for regular treadmill"

They are not differnt terms they are Different Things; treadmill an jenny!


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## James Lechernich

Kyle Sprag said:


> No Connie wrote: "different terms for regular treadmill"
> 
> They are not differnt terms they are Different Things; treadmill an jenny!


I was responding in the context of her initial post in reference to jennis: _"I didn't know the term referred also to the equipment without the trapped small animal "bait.""_

If she is also claiming the two(treadmills and jennis) as being the same thing, then she would be mistaken.


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## Connie Sutherland

James Lechernich said:


> ... If she is also claiming the two(treadmills and jennis) as being the same thing, then she would be mistaken.


Correct. I worded it wrong. I _did_ have them in the same broad category in my mind, but they are actually (obviously) quite different.


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## Kyle Sprag

James Lechernich said:


> I was responding in the context of her initial post in reference to jennis: _"I didn't know the term referred also to the equipment without the trapped small animal "bait.""_
> 
> If she is also claiming the two(treadmills and jennis) as being the same thing, then she would be mistaken.


 
And then I wrote something like you must be kidding?

The equipment is the equipment what the dog chases after is yet something else.

It is HSUS, PETA comments like these that would have the JQP believe that if you have a treadmill and/or jenny you are Criminal of Dog Fighting.


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## Connie Sutherland

Kyle Sprag said:


> It is HSUS, PETA comments like these that would have the JQP believe that if you have a treadmill and/or jenny you are Criminal of Dog Fighting.



Kyle, my comment was clearly "I didn't know ..." Are you overreacting to it? Or do you honestly believe that I was fronting for PETA because I admitted that until today I had heard only the worst meaning? I said that I had had a bad reaction to the term and then that "I didn't know."

That's all. That's it. "I didn't know."


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## James Lechernich

Kyle Sprag said:


> And then I wrote something like you must be kidding?
> 
> The equipment is the equipment what the dog chases after is yet something else.
> 
> It is HSUS, PETA comments like these that would have the JQP believe that if you have a treadmill and/or jenny you are Criminal of Dog Fighting.


Of course. But whether Connie was mistaken about the kind of mill being discussed or not I think it comes down to termiology. I find that when JQP thinks of mills, especially jennis, the term 'catmill' comes to most people's minds. Blame the fraternity for coining the term, and the AR groups for propagandizing it.


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## Kyle Sprag

Connie Sutherland said:


> Kyle, my comment was clearly "I didn't know ..." Are you overreacting to it? Or do you honestly believe that I was fronting for PETA because I admitted that until today I had heard only the worst meaning? I said that I had had a bad reaction to the term and then that "I didn't know."
> 
> That's all. That's it. "I didn't know."


It is all just a little piece of the Brain Washing, you know Paul Joseph Goebbels, repeat it long and often.

No Offense to you intended.

I guess things like this are not a problem in other jurisdictions a Treadmill and/or Jenny are Illegal. All it takes is some Clown calling the local animal rights Goons and next thing you know your dogs are gone and you are facing fines, jail time and will be lucky to ever see your now Spay/Neutered animals back. God Forbid they find out that the dogs were trained ATTACK dogs, in this case they will just be PTS.

this crap happens more often than you might think.


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## James Downey

I am just trying to get the dog some exercise in the winter. 

But for arguments sake, What if I put a piece of steak at the end of the mill. What if I used the reward of a steak dinner to make employees work harder. I do not see much of a difference if it's a dead cat or a dead cow....Dead is dead.


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## charles Turner

Jody Butler said:


> I know not a Jenni, but these are great....
> 
> http://www.grandcarpetmill.com/


 carpet mills will get a dog's feet hot very quickly, be carefull when using one, a slat (wooden) mill is alot better, but usually more expensive, several years ago, one of the best mills on the market, was a "Red River Curly" Slat Mill. Some one could google this to see if they are still around.


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## James Lechernich

RRC mills are top shelf but I don't believe they're in business anymore. Site went down awhile back.

RPmillmaker's standard mill is nice and substantially cheaper(~$300 shipping negates some of the savings though): http://www.rpmillmaker.com/


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## Nancy Jocoy

Hey, the site is interesting. Is what they say about carpet mills=anaerobic and slat mills=aeorbic and limitations on electric treadmills and max speed true?


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## James Lechernich

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Hey, the site is interesting. Is what they say about carpet mills=anaerobic and slat mills=aeorbic and limitations on electric treadmills and max speed true?


For the most part. Carpet mills have more resistance so they're designed for short interval(strength) workouts. Slat mills have less resistance(though top shelf brands with handbrakes can adjust the resistance) so they're designed for longer interval(endurance)/everyday workouts. With a carpet mill you never want to exceed 10-15 minute intervals or a maximum of about 30-60 minutes per day, but with slatmills you can work a dog up to 30 minute intervals as much as 2-3hrs a day provided you hand walk the dog for 10-15 minutes in between intervals so they can empty out. Otherwise you risk over-working the dog and stressing their organs/muscles.

As for electric mills and speed, you can use either safely but the thing about electric(human) mills is that they just don't offer the same intensity when it comes to workouts. What's the fasest setting on most electric mills, 8-10mph? A slatmill will turn as fast as the dog can move it. People who've milled greyhounds have clocked them at 40mph.


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## Tamara McIntosh

James Lechernich said:


> For the most part. Carpet mills have more resistance so they're designed for short interval(strength) workouts. Slat mills have less resistance(though top shelf brands with handbrakes can adjust the resistance) so they're designed for longer interval(endurance)/everyday workouts. With a carpet mill you never want to exceed 10-15 minute intervals or a maximum of about 30-60 minutes per day, but with slatmills you can work a dog up to 30 minute intervals as much as 2-3hrs a day provided you hand walk the dog for 10-15 minutes in between intervals so they can empty out. Otherwise you risk over-working the dog and stressing their organs/muscles.
> 
> As for electric mills and speed, you can use either safely but the thing about electric(human) mills is that they just don't offer the same intensity when it comes to workouts. What's the fasest setting on most electric mills, 8-10mph? A slatmill will turn as fast as the dog can move it. People who've milled greyhounds have clocked them at 40mph.


that is really cool info thanx for posting!

Tamara McIntosh


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## Tamara McIntosh

James Lechernich said:


> For the most part. Carpet mills have more resistance so they're designed for short interval(strength) workouts. Slat mills have less resistance(though top shelf brands with handbrakes can adjust the resistance) so they're designed for longer interval(endurance)/everyday workouts. With a carpet mill you never want to exceed 10-15 minute intervals or a maximum of about 30-60 minutes per day, but with slatmills you can work a dog up to 30 minute intervals as much as 2-3hrs a day provided you hand walk the dog for 10-15 minutes in between intervals so they can empty out. Otherwise you risk over-working the dog and stressing their organs/muscles.
> 
> As for electric mills and speed, you can use either safely but the thing about electric(human) mills is that they just don't offer the same intensity when it comes to workouts. What's the fasest setting on most electric mills, 8-10mph? A slatmill will turn as fast as the dog can move it. People who've milled greyhounds have clocked them at 40mph.


What does "empty out" mean?

I have been looking online at carpet vs slat mills. In regards to a carpet mill.... first of all why carpet? why not the rubber used for people treadmills? On that note is there a great deal of difference between a carpet mill and a manual human treadmill?

Please excuse my ignorance! I did not know there was a difference before this thread.

Tamara McIntosh


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## James Lechernich

Tamara McIntosh said:


> What does "empty out" mean?


It's a chance for the dog to void, rest a bit, and gives you the opportunity to look the dog over to make sure it's alright(check for blood in urine, muscle/joint tendernous, limping, etc).



Tamara McIntosh said:


> I have been looking online at carpet vs slat mills. In regards to a carpet mill.... first of all why carpet? why not the rubber used for people treadmills?


I'm not a millmaker so I'm not 100% sure. I figure it's partially keeping tradition alive, partially design, and perhaps has something to do with the cost and availability of materials. Carpet is soft on a dog's feet but it's also harder to turn so it offers a better workout.



Tamara McIntosh said:


> On that note is there a great deal of difference between a carpet mill and a manual human treadmill?


Different uses, different intensities. A carpet mill is designed for short interval(strength) workouts whereas an electric mill, like a slatmill, is designed for longer interval(endurance) workouts. An electric mill is fine for someone looking for supplemental exercise and/or a way to keep their dog fit during the winter, etc, but as mentioned before there's just no comparison to a slatmill when it comes to the intensity of workouts. Someone who wants to condition a dog for sports competitions like weight pull, or perhaps bite work, will want to buy a slatmill. If your budget allows a carpet mill is also good to have.


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## Tamara McIntosh

James Lechernich said:


> I'm not a millmaker so I'm not 100% sure. I figure it's partially keeping tradition alive, partially design, and perhaps has something to do with the cost and availability of materials. Carpet is soft on a dog's feet but it's also harder to turn so it offers a better workout.
> 
> Different uses, different intensities. A carpet mill is designed for short interval(strength) workouts whereas an electric mill, like a slatmill, is designed for longer interval(endurance) workouts.


Thank you for all the helpful info. I was asking about a human treadmill that is NOT electric. The low tech manual person treadmill with no motor. I have seen a ton of those lately on kijiji for cheap and if I could possibly modify one that would be awesome!!! Would it be ok for the dog to run on the rubberized tread of a manual person treadmill or would carpet be better for the dog? 

I noticed that most of the carpet mills have an incline to the mill. Is there an optimal incline or does it vary?

so a max of 10-15 mins on a carpet mill and 30 mins on a slat mill per session? 

Tamara McIntosh


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## James Lechernich

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Thank you for all the helpful info. I was asking about a human treadmill that is NOT electric. The low tech manual person treadmill with no motor. I have seen a ton of those lately on kijiji for cheap and if I could possibly modify one that would be awesome!!! Would it be ok for the dog to run on the rubberized tread of a manual person treadmill or would carpet be better for the dog?
> 
> I noticed that most of the carpet mills have an incline to the mill. Is there an optimal incline or does it vary?
> 
> so a max of 10-15 mins on a carpet mill and 30 mins on a slat mill per session?
> 
> Tamara McIntosh


Honestly, I've never seen a manual human treadmill before so I really couldn't give you an answer one way or the other. Provided the tread won't tear up the dog's feet it's going to depend on whether or not the mill can accommodate the dog's weight/stride and how much resistance(ease of spinning) is present without the dog's weight. If it's too short, too weak, or the dog is killing itself just to get the mill moving then you're better off investing in a quality mill rather than risking your dog's health. If the mill is adequate for the dog and already low to the ground then there's not many modifications you *need* to make. Some people like to add blinders(walls) on the sides and build harness set ups for safety purposes and to keep the dog focused on the work but it's really not required on a ground level mill.

Again, I'm not a millmaker but I can say the angle of the mill is important from a locomotion perspective. For carpet mills the dog's weight adds additional resistance so the angle of the mill is designed to aide the dog in getting it going. Most dogs have a harder time getting used to a carpet mill(in comparison to slatmills) simply because they don't turn as easily, so if the mill were completely level it would be even harder to turn and take longer for the dog to figure out how to get it going. 

If I were you I'd contact a millmaker with questions pertaining to mill height/angles. Nonetheless, I'd say you'd want to stay within a 10-20 degree incline as that should be steep enough to aide the dog from a dead start but not be so steep that you overwork them during each session or potentially cause injury from the dog slipping out the backside.

Yes, those times are the most I'd work a dog per interval. But I'll tell you that it will take awhile to build a dog up to that level so don't be in any hurry. With any mill you're going to be starting out by just getting a dog used to being on the mill without it moving. Some dogs take to it naturally, some dogs require a lot of verbal praise or treats, and some dogs just plain hate them no matter what. Once the dog is comfortable on a static mill you're going to start them out slowly and not work more than 2-3 minutes. From there you're gonna build them up a minute or two at a time until they're working the mill at a consistent pace, then you can add 5 minutes like every 3rd session or whenever you think the dog can handle it. The key is supervising the dog at all times to prevent overwork and injury. With carpet mills though, the process is going to be much slower.


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

*Bouv on human treadmill*

I condition my dogs on my treadmill, though I'm looking at getting a slatmill made for my mastiffs. 
This is just a short clip to show folks that the dogs do like it.. they get on it willingly, though it was taken shortly after I started running Ness on it, so she hadn't really figured out where to best position herself, to wait for me to turn it on/off before hopping on & off from it, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/user/WorkingBB#p/search/0/pJXCBdewB70

I do think that having the dog tethered via harness is the way to go!  Tashi


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