# Sticky  Everyone Should Read This: Direction of the Forum



## Mike Schoonbrood

I've been MIA for a while, but I check in on how the forum is doing from time to time, and I get updates from my moderators as well as other forum members on a regular basis.

It's quite depressing to see the type of crap people are resorting to these days, and it is not what this forum was created for. In fact, this forum was created to AVOID these exact issues, since there are already countless other forums that people can go on to whine and ridicule.

There is a new forum section called the "Conflict Free" section. I was debating whether or not to create it, since it would imply that the rest of the forum is open-season on rude, inappropriate conduct. This, however, is not the case.

What the Conflict-Free zone is designed to do, is to create an area where people can post a question knowing that only people who are going to answer the question without ridiculing them are able to read/post in that section. The second anyone steps out of line, their post will be deleted and their access to that section will be permanently denied. There will be no appeals process. There is a zero tolerance "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say ANYTHING at all" policy in effect.

As for the rest of the forum. When we started out here, there was a big emphasis on free-speech. People would break down and cry if threads got locked, and whine about over-moderation. So, instead of cracking down, we took a more relaxed approach to moderation to see how it would go.

Initially I think it went quite well. We were a new forum with members that came over from other forums with the same goal in mind: No-Bull Working Dog Discussion. However, as forums grow, the original intentions get lost with "the new crowd." As a result, the self-moderation that made this forum what it was took a back seat to arguments and personal debates and insults.

Given the fact that people are no longer able to self-moderate the discussions and keep themselves in check, the moderator team has been instructed to take a less relaxed approach to the bullying that causes most of our newer members to never dare post a question.

As of today, threads will get locked, posts will get deleted, and people will get banned if their attitudes continue to be as they are.

When our forum members start showing some of the self-restraint that made this forum so great in the first place, then we might be able to dial down the moderation again. But it is clear that it is needed, because apparently we're back in kindergarten.

Additionally: Those of you that complain about inappropriate behavior on the forum... we cannot fix it if we don't know about it! PM a moderator and tell them what the issue is. Don't just twiddle your thumbs then complain about it "in general" 6 months later.

Hope everyone had a great holiday season, and I wish you all the best for 2010. Lets see if we can turn this forum around so that it may see a 2011.

Mike Schoonbrood
WorkingDogForum.com Administrator
(aka. the guy that pays the bills)


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## jack van strien

Mike,
I have not been on this forum for a long time yet but i know what you mean and somewhere i have posted a response about this kind of abuse.I also object to the four letter words wich i think are not necessary at all.I am very glad you adressed this issue and hope people will comply.I would like to see some more respect to eachother and i do hope it will help to clean up this forum.And by the way it is not only the new crowd who is guilty i think but like everywhere there are always a few individuals who spoil it for the rest of the people.


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## Guest

Lets get back to Working Dog Discussions and Debate!


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## Sudhir Mathur

I am new to this forum and I felt people were not openly sharing their thoughts......because I got a few PM as a response to my questions....so this tells a lot....I am glad the men who rule the board are back....good show Mike...









We can agree to dis-agree but not look down or humiliate or ridicule others.....lets discuss dogs....

Cheers......


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## Sue Miller

Can you post some rules? What is considered to be a non-working dog discussion? Can we talk about Schutzhund? I was going to post an e-collar video & compare how a working puppy vs a semi-non-working puppy respond to the training--is that ok. I asked about a certain muzzle type that I needed & it started a conversation--can we ask a question like that?--the muzzle wasn't for a working dog.

Sometimes I get in on political conversations & that's bad & I feel bad because I respect Connie a lot. Sometimes I like to read the personal stuff--it lets you get to know more about people.


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## Mike Scheiber

Sue Miller said:


> Can you post some rules? What is considered to be a non-working dog discussion? Can we talk about Schutzhund? I was going to post an e-collar video & compare how a working puppy vs a semi-non-working puppy respond to the training--is that ok. I asked about a certain muzzle type that I needed & it started a conversation--can we ask a question like that?--the muzzle wasn't for a working dog.
> 
> Sometimes I get in on political conversations & that's bad & I feel bad because I respect Connie a lot. Sometimes I like to read the personal stuff--it lets you get to know more about people.


You are afraid to ask questions/discuss in regards to Schutzhund could I ask why.


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## David Frost

Sue Miller said:


> Can you post some rules? What is considered to be a non-working dog discussion? Can we talk about Schutzhund? I was going to post an e-collar video & compare how a working puppy vs a semi-non-working puppy respond to the training--is that ok. I asked about a certain muzzle type that I needed & it started a conversation--can we ask a question like that?--the muzzle wasn't for a working dog.
> 
> Sometimes I get in on political conversations & that's bad & I feel bad because I respect Connie a lot. Sometimes I like to read the personal stuff--it lets you get to know more about people.


Originally posted March of 2006;

Forum Rules & Information 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome to WorkingDogForum.com!

Here are some basic forum rules that all posters must abide by:

1. All users must USE THEIR REAL NAMES, no aliases!
2. All users must be courteous and truthful to others, personal attacks are not tollerated.
3. If you do not have the experience to back up the answer to a question, you probably shouldn't give an answer to the question! It is understandable that there are exceptions to this rule, such as situations where common sense, hearsay or an opinion would be appropriate.
4. Photos ARE ALLOWED in threads! However, please don't abuse this, don't clutter the threads up with photos of your dog 
5. Keep your signatures short and sweet, use the Avatar function if you want to put a photo of you or your dog beside your name. You can upload an avatar (80x80 pixels) in the \"Profile\" section after you have signed into the forum.

---

This forum is designed as an open discussion board, open to differing ideas and opinions on different subject matters. However, this doesn't mean you can post any stupid, useless, dangerous or misleading information! If you disagree with someone because you feel the information they are offering is entirely wrong and/or dangerous advice, then contact a Moderator or the Admin -- if you find that it is a personal difference of opinion, leave it alone and move on to the next topic!! A friendly debate is fine, but when it turns into a \"I'm Right and You're Wrong\" argument the forum becomes less enjoyable for everyone. There is a saying... \"Put 2 dog trainers together and the only thing they will agree on is that the 3rd guy is doing it wrong\"... there are going to be times when someone uses a different method to achieve a result, as long as the method isn't abusive or dangerous, there is no point in trying to change someones mind.

With that said, enjoy the forum!
__________________
WorkingDogForum.com Administrator


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## Sue Miller

Mike Scheiber said:


> You are afraid to ask questions/discuss in regards to Schutzhund could I ask why.


The post that started all this was complaining about SchH talk.


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## David Frost

Sue Miller said:


> Can you post some rules? What is considered to be a non-working dog discussion? Can we talk about Schutzhund? I was going to post an e-collar video & compare how a working puppy vs a semi-non-working puppy respond to the training--is that ok. I asked about a certain muzzle type that I needed & it started a conversation--can we ask a question like that?--the muzzle wasn't for a working dog.
> 
> Sometimes I get in on political conversations & that's bad & I feel bad because I respect Connie a lot. Sometimes I like to read the personal stuff--it lets you get to know more about people.


"Can you post some rules?": Done.

"Can we talk about Schutzhund?": Absolutely. 

"What is considered to be a non-working dog discussion?": Working Dog Discussions would include: SAR, Sport, Police, Service Personal Protection, I'm sure I've not named all venues, but you get the drift. It does not include Fluffy winning the contest for best Halloween costume.


"I was going to post an e-collar video & compare how a working puppy vs a semi-non-working puppy respond to the training--is that ok.": Why not, unless it's video of torture. There are learning experiences in nearly every conversation for someone. 

"I asked about a certain muzzle type that I needed & it started a conversation--can we ask a question like that?" You did. I don't recall any of the mods saying anything. Equipment conversations have always been permitted. There is even a section for it. 

"Sometimes I get in on political conversations": We really try to avoid those. They, more than likely will be locked quickly.

Enjoy

DFrost


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## James Lechernich

I'm a newb so I'm likely to ask questions rather then enter into a debate with anyone, nonethless my mama raised me right so I'm not about to forget the rules of the playground; "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." I'm here to learn, share what little I know, and post funny stuff from time to time. This isn't my board so the owner and his moderators can rule the roost as they see fit. If that means smacking wayward children on the hand or deleting posts/threads that don't adhere to forum rules, then so be it. People take their dogs and training seriously but that's no reason to get all worked up over stuff. It is the interwebs afterall, not real life...


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## Kadi Thingvall

ROTFLMAO David, are you SURE you meant to say this?



David Frost said:


> "What is considered to be *a non-working dog discussion*?": SAR, Sport, Police, Service Personal Protection, I'm sure I've not named all venues, but you get the drift.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Kadi Thingvall said:


> ROTFLMAO David, are you SURE you meant to say this?



I read that twice too then ROTFLMAO! \\/


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## David Frost

Kadi Thingvall said:


> ROTFLMAO David, are you SURE you meant to say this?


Oh sure Kadi, pick on the southerner. ha ha. Actually, what I meant to say is........ well you get the idea. ha ha. I've edited my comments. 

Honestly, thank you for pointing that out. 

DFrost


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## Drew Peirce

New sub forum, new directives, heightened moderation........hmmmm

Almost reminds me of big government in a way, instead of removing the glaringly obvious underlying problem, build infrastructure and bureaucracy around it to try and manage it.

Just an observation, your mileage may vary.


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## Adam Rawlings

Will we ever hear from Jeff again?:lol:


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## Connie Sutherland

Drew Peirce said:


> .... Almost reminds me of big government in a way ....


What about the part where the WDF board doesn't cost the members? 

:lol: :lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg

Connie Sutherland said:


> What about the part where the WDF board doesn't cost the members?
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Are you going to start taxing us next week? 

$10 to start a thread, $5 for a intelligent nice response, $20 for a stupid sarcastic response.


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## David Frost

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Are you going to start taxing us next week?
> 
> , $20 for a stupid sarcastic response.


Mike would get rich - - - quick.

DFrost


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## Lee H Sternberg

David Frost said:


> Mike would get rich - - - quick.
> 
> DFrost


.

Maybe he will share. How about 5 bucks to the first mod to catch stupid posts?


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## Connie Sutherland

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I've been MIA for a while, but I check in on how the forum is doing from time to time, and I get updates from my moderators as well as other forum members on a regular basis.
> 
> It's quite depressing to see the type of crap people are resorting to these days, and it is not what this forum was created for. In fact, this forum was created to AVOID these exact issues, since there are already countless other forums that people can go on to whine and ridicule.
> 
> There is a new forum section called the "Conflict Free" section. I was debating whether or not to create it, since it would imply that the rest of the forum is open-season on rude, inappropriate conduct. This, however, is not the case.
> 
> What the Conflict-Free zone is designed to do, is to create an area where people can post a question knowing that only people who are going to answer the question without ridiculing them are able to read/post in that section. The second anyone steps out of line, their post will be deleted and their access to that section will be permanently denied. There will be no appeals process. There is a zero tolerance "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say ANYTHING at all" policy in effect.
> 
> As for the rest of the forum. When we started out here, there was a big emphasis on free-speech. People would break down and cry if threads got locked, and whine about over-moderation. So, instead of cracking down, we took a more relaxed approach to moderation to see how it would go.
> 
> Initially I think it went quite well. We were a new forum with members that came over from other forums with the same goal in mind: No-Bull Working Dog Discussion. However, as forums grow, the original intentions get lost with "the new crowd." As a result, the self-moderation that made this forum what it was took a back seat to arguments and personal debates and insults.
> 
> Given the fact that people are no longer able to self-moderate the discussions and keep themselves in check, the moderator team has been instructed to take a less relaxed approach to the bullying that causes most of our newer members to never dare post a question.
> 
> As of today, threads will get locked, posts will get deleted, and people will get banned if their attitudes continue to be as they are.
> 
> When our forum members start showing some of the self-restraint that made this forum so great in the first place, then we might be able to dial down the moderation again. But it is clear that it is needed, because apparently we're back in kindergarten.
> 
> Additionally: Those of you that complain about inappropriate behavior on the forum... we cannot fix it if we don't know about it! PM a moderator and tell them what the issue is. Don't just twiddle your thumbs then complain about it "in general" 6 months later.
> 
> Hope everyone had a great holiday season, and I wish you all the best for 2010. Lets see if we can turn this forum around so that it may see a 2011.
> 
> Mike Schoonbrood
> WorkingDogForum.com Administrator
> (aka. the guy that pays the bills)


Maybe this should be the thread and if Q&A are needed they could go in "Ask a Mod" ... so as not to muck up the main point any more than I already have.


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## Connie Sutherland

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I've been MIA for a while, but I check in on how the forum is doing from time to time, and I get updates from my moderators as well as other forum members on a regular basis.
> 
> It's quite depressing to see the type of crap people are resorting to these days, and it is not what this forum was created for. In fact, this forum was created to AVOID these exact issues, since there are already countless other forums that people can go on to whine and ridicule.
> 
> There is a new forum section called the "Conflict Free" section. I was debating whether or not to create it, since it would imply that the rest of the forum is open-season on rude, inappropriate conduct. This, however, is not the case.
> 
> What the Conflict-Free zone is designed to do, is to create an area where people can post a question knowing that only people who are going to answer the question without ridiculing them are able to read/post in that section. The second anyone steps out of line, their post will be deleted and their access to that section will be permanently denied. There will be no appeals process. There is a zero tolerance "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say ANYTHING at all" policy in effect.
> 
> As for the rest of the forum. When we started out here, there was a big emphasis on free-speech. People would break down and cry if threads got locked, and whine about over-moderation. So, instead of cracking down, we took a more relaxed approach to moderation to see how it would go.
> 
> Initially I think it went quite well. We were a new forum with members that came over from other forums with the same goal in mind: No-Bull Working Dog Discussion. However, as forums grow, the original intentions get lost with "the new crowd." As a result, the self-moderation that made this forum what it was took a back seat to arguments and personal debates and insults.
> 
> Given the fact that people are no longer able to self-moderate the discussions and keep themselves in check, the moderator team has been instructed to take a less relaxed approach to the bullying that causes most of our newer members to never dare post a question.
> 
> As of today, threads will get locked, posts will get deleted, and people will get banned if their attitudes continue to be as they are.
> 
> When our forum members start showing some of the self-restraint that made this forum so great in the first place, then we might be able to dial down the moderation again. But it is clear that it is needed, because apparently we're back in kindergarten.
> 
> Additionally: Those of you that complain about inappropriate behavior on the forum... we cannot fix it if we don't know about it! PM a moderator and tell them what the issue is. Don't just twiddle your thumbs then complain about it "in general" 6 months later.
> 
> Hope everyone had a great holiday season, and I wish you all the best for 2010. Lets see if we can turn this forum around so that it may see a 2011.
> 
> Mike Schoonbrood
> WorkingDogForum.com Administrator
> (aka. the guy that pays the bills)


Maybe this should be the thread and if Q&A are needed they could go in "Ask a Mod" ... so as not to muck up the main point (any more than I already have :lol: ).


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