# Real street bites



## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

I have been involved with training dogs about 11 years now. I have been assigned to K9 for a little over a year. My K9 recently had his first street bite about 2 months ago. I thought it would be neat to share your story here. 
About two months ago I was on a traffic stop when the driver of the vehicle exited his car. I quickly exited my patrol car and approached the driver. I asked him for his license and registration. The driver then pushed me and took off running. His front passenger exited the car and started coming towards me. I got him down at gun point. A few minutes later I conducted a track with my dog. I ended up at a house a few blocks away. The home owner met me outside and told me that someone just ran in thier house and was hiding in there. I gave several announcements but heard nothing. The suspect was located in a bedroom closet. I got him on the gound and ordered my dog to down a few feet from him. When I went to search the suspect he turned and tried to elbow me in the face. My dog immediately bit him in the side of his head. There was no rebite. The initial bite was full. When the suspect stopped hitting my dog I was able to verbally out my dog and put him back in a down position. The suspect is facing multiple charges and was currently out on bond when this incident occured. 
I am a firm believer that good training results in good performance. :-D


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

> Excellent!! You have an excellent partner!!

> Phil


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Outstanding! I'm sure those erotic words; subject in custody, roll medical were announced proudly.

(oh yeah, I meant erotic too, that's no typo)

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nice first bite Andy. Any pics? Just kidding.

David, I'm really starting to worry about you.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

what breed of dog?


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Someone that is willing to punch/assault a cop is someone that needs to be taken off the street. Someone that is willing to punch/assault a cop with his K-9 sitting right there must be insane. Thanks to you and your dog for dealing with these derelicts.


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks Patrick, It is always nice to get a criminal off of the street. He certainly has a new respect for my K9 (Rottweiler).


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

yea for the Rottweiler.... touche to all those who thinks Rotts can't work. Let's see your 15yr old Malinois do that! HA.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Andy had a special glow about him when he told us this story. Like a proud Dad who's kid hit his 1st home run or scored his first touchdown.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I have had a visual ( Great Job ) 

This is for my buddy Will: If the dog would have been a Mal, as the closet door was opened the Mal would have rushd in and pulled him out.

If it had been a GSD, he would have you stay in the car with A/C running and asked you to have another pastry. The GSD would have went in pulled the door off the hinges snatched the man out, drug him to the car and body slammed him in the back seat.

Just a little humor, Great job Andy. Now go get another and I don't mean pastry.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

My mind is a terrible thing for you folks to have to deal with. I think it is wasted. Sorry


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## Michael West (Jun 3, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> Nice first bite Andy. Any pics? Just kidding.
> 
> David, I'm really starting to worry about you.


What do you mean kidding? I want photos!

Dare me not to pull a camera out after my dog gets bit. Its for "training".


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Be very careful with said pics. A defense lawyer will use them against you if you even hint that you have a "Bite Book". Additionally, civil litigation from the injured party (read: scumbag) is a reality if the pics are used in a defamatory way. Just a little info to keep in mind.

Howard


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Be very careful with said pics. A defense lawyer will use them against you if you even hint that you have a "Bite Book". Additionally, civil litigation from the injured party (read: scumbag) is a reality if the pics are used in a defamatory way. Just a little info to keep in mind.
> 
> Howard


Any pictures taken should be of the wound after it has been medically tended to. Wounds always look worse than they are when they have not been cleaned up. The pictures should then be retained in a file by the K-9 Supervisor or a designated ranking officer, along with any supporting documentation. The handler should never retain these photos for the above reason. [-X [-( :wink:


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

There are several photos of the incident however they are attached with the file and will stay with the file. This prevents bad press and poor lawsuits.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Justin Eimer said:


> Any pictures taken should be of the wound after it has been medically tended to. Wounds always look worse than they are when they have not been cleaned up. The pictures should then be retained in a file by the K-9 Supervisor or a designated ranking officer, along with any supporting documentation. The handler should never retain these photos for the above reason. [-X [-( :wink:


Excellant advice. In fact, in our policy, after supervisor notification (supervisor is supposed to photograph the bite area) first aid is rendered. Most bites, as Justin pointed out, look much better after being cleaned. That of course, coupled with our compassion for the injured victim, ensuring we make the pu....... uh, subject as comfortable as possible. Please make sure you don't catch the happy dance (from the handler) on video.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Yea, Yea...I forgot about the happy dance! Wokka Wokka Bow Wow.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Yea, Yea...I forgot about the happy dance! Wokka Wokka Bow Wow.


Ahhhhh, I see we went to the same dance studio, h ah a

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Ahhhhh, I see we went to the same dance studio, h ah a
> 
> DFrost


 
OH MAN!! 
LEO doing dog dancing! Now that's just wrong!!!:-D


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Right Bob. I can see you and the JRTs doing the foxtrot. Theres an image!


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## Mike Talkington (May 13, 2008)

We send our" apprehensions by K9" to the hospital for treatment where either some Brass or an ID Bureau Det. responds for photos, the photos from there are stored under a case number. Now a days instead of the dance in photos, you gotta watch the cruiser videos, too much praise in that excited voice we sometimes tend to get during a high stress situation over your boy doing a great job doesnt always sound to good on the audio and of course if it's all caught on video.....dancing surely wouldnt look good.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Talkington said:


> . Now a days instead of the dance in photos, you gotta watch the cruiser videos, too much praise in that excited voice we sometimes tend to get during a high stress situation over your boy doing a great job doesnt always sound to good on the audio and of course if it's all caught on video.....dancing surely wouldnt look good.


Many years ago I testified on behalf of a canine officer that was being charged for excessive use of force. It was before the prolific use of video, but there were a number of witnesses. There was no question about whether or not the dog should of been used. What was questioned was the words used by the handler. During training (years ago) it was common practice, during bite training, the handler would verbally encourage the dog. It was a training field, so the words flew. Such as; tear him up, bring me a piece of his ass, eatum boy, etc etc. My testimony was one of explaining while yes, the words did seem offensive, it was really nothing more than a carry over from training and words of encouragement/verbal praise for the dog doing his job. I was on the stand quite awhile. Fortunately we had a sympathetic jury and the subject really was a POS, and we won the case. Since then however, while the enthusiasm hasn't changed, the wording certainly has. Now, the handlers, at least the ones I train, and I recommend it to all, use the words, "HOLD HIM" ; "Good boy". That's pretty much it. 

DFrost


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## Mike Talkington (May 13, 2008)

David Frost said:


> the words, "HOLD HIM" ; "Good boy".DFrost


and these are Exactly the words we use! 

It's very true that the words you use in training are the words you'll use when it's for real


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

So screaming "Tear him a new asshole!" wouldn't be advisable?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Juries love the dogs. I've been on the stand explaining a K9 training or behavour and the whole time they're all nodding their heads "yes". Gotta love that! "Holdim" seems to be pretty universal now. An ex handler of ours used to yell "Kill!" in training and we warned him several times to stop. He thought it was funny until a citizen "Inquired" as to the use of that word to a commander. That fixed his wagon.

Howard


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

In our department, any use of force is reviewed by IA. Well, now it's called, Office of Professional Responsibility. I guess they think we won't know it's IA. At any rate, even though the use of a dog is not in the use of force general order, the review will make a determination if it was, indeed, a proper and professional, response to the threat. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Patrick Murray said:


> So screaming "Tear him a new asshole!" wouldn't be advisable?


Just like I tell my handlers; You've been trained properly, you do whatever you feel is right. Just remember; when I testify I take the oath; "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" seriously.

DFrost


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Got it David. With my pup my words of encouragement are going to be "Be Nice". :twisted:


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I knew an Orlando PD handler who used the word "Stop" for the bite command. His theory..."All the witnesses heard him yell stop numerous times but the guy wouldn't quit running". Makes weird sense.

Howard


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> I knew an Orlando PD handler who used the word "Stop" for the bite command. His theory..."All the witnesses heard him yell stop numerous times but the guy wouldn't quit running". Makes weird sense.
> 
> Howard


On how many dash cams videos do we hear; Stop resisting.

It, sometimes, can be a perception game can't it. ha ha

DFrost


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

on my dogs last apprehension, there was a press photographer on scene. he was literally 50ft away from the apprehension snapping away. suspect's head was bitten among other places. anyone who's ever seen a head wound, knows that they bleed a ton. in one of the local papers, there was a picture of my cover officers patting down the handcuffed suspect with the side of his head covered in blood (thankfully it was a black and white photo so the blood kinda looks like mud or grease). in the other paper it was a blurry photo of the suspect just starting to crawl out of the garbage can he had been hiding in. you can see a red blur where the guy's head should be. 

i could probably post scans of the articles. afterall they're public info. what do you think david?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Tim, I agree, I wouldn't think there would be anything wrong with that. It's not like case photos or something.

DFrost


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)




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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Those head bites are nasty looking though. It doesn't take much of a cut to bleed a whole bunch. Blood is like motor oil. It always looks like there is a lot more than there really is. I've interview a few "customers" after treatment. I wanted to know; did the dog have a good firm bite. Did he release at any time. Was he growling. they usually don't want to cooperate and give me answer, but every now and then one of them will try to answer correctly. My last question is always; would you run from a dog again. the answer has always been, NO. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Great article Tim. Ahhh yes, the difference between playing and working. ha ha.

DFrost


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

agreed on the head wound. after it was cleaned up, i was shocked at the amount of damage. i think there were two small punctures and a small laceration. it doesn't take much on the head. like i said, they bleed a ton...


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I liked the BW pic better. Its a classic style and you have three arms.

Great job. Your boy looks like serious business.

Howard


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

GREAT JOB, I bet that guy has a whole new respect for the police K9.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Yea. Whats the last thing that went through his mind? A canine! LOL

Bet he didn't think a dog would bite him in the head, huh? He knows better now! No appendage is safe around a good patrol dog. All that muzzle and suit work paid off.

Howard


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Yea. Whats the last thing that went through his mind? A canine!
> 
> Howard


:lol:

I love it! Literally as well as figuratively "through his mind."


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## Axel Van der Borght (Jun 15, 2008)

Howard, good example for what difference a policedog can make. I am a policeman myself. I once was in a fight. While fighting I was trying to get a man in handcufs and I thaught that the 10 other policemen who where there would help me. But I was wrong. I was kicked in the face by a third person while I was on the ground fighting and my 10 collegues where just looking scared to do something. 
I know for sure that if I had a policedog that time that this would never happened.

First of all people react very different when there is a policedog in the neighborhood than even 10 policemen.
Only his presence already makes a big difference.
And I know for sure that my dog wouldn't let me down, instead of my 10 'friends' lol.

Axel


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Axel,

We have a couple officers here that have been known to bitch slap any officer who sat around and watched them get their ass kicked. In your case, one dog was worth more than ten officers (and I use that term loosely)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Axel,
> 
> We have a couple officers here that have been known to bitch slap any officer who sat around and watched them get their ass kicked. In your case, one dog was worth more than ten officers (and I use that term loosely)


There'd definately be another ass-kickin'. It might well be me, but they'd sure know I was extremely angry.

DFrost


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

I always said that I didn't care if my partner had two legs, or four, he/she had better be 10-08. If not... Don't even respond. ~Justin


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Yea, otherwise you have to keep an eye out for 2 guns...yours and the worthless backup.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

A good partner needs to be seen and not seen eating the donuts in the car. \\/ 
K-9 power is effective because folks fear teeth. Many will try their luck and take your gun, baton, mace, or other item. Not many want to deal with 750 pounds of bite pressure on the man parts! [-(


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Yea, otherwise you have to keep an eye out for 2 guns...yours and the worthless backup.


*EXACTLY!!!*
*"Dispatch... You advised... Who would be responding???"*
*:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: *
*"10-10 (Negative) on your last ... Advise that unit they can 10-22 (Disregard)!!!"*
=; =; =; =; =; =; =; 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Howard Gaines III said:


> A good partner needs to be seen and not seen eating the donuts in the car. \\/
> K-9 power is effective because folks fear teeth. Many will try their luck and take your gun, baton, mace, or other item. Not many want to deal with 750 pounds of bite pressure on the man parts! [-(


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Don't jest, Justin. I've heard a few officers say that on the radio enough times about certain officers that eyebrows were raised and questions asked!!

Howard


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Don't jest, Justin. I've heard a few officers say that on the radio enough times about certain officers that eyebrows were raised and questions asked!!
> 
> Howard


Howard~
I jest not=; ! I actually said that before... and yeah- you are right... eyebrows were raised and questions were asked:-\" . LOL.:lol: That's true scoop. I have said it in reference to those that would always instigate crap when it was already calmed down (bar fights)](*,) . I also said it about individuals that were just plain useless and could not or would not fight their way out of a wet paper bag - individuals that diverted my attention elsewhere (placing me in more danger) due to their tactical inproficiency or incompetance[-( . Here is how I see it... If when you arrive on scene to back me up, you either instigate an already volatile situation, stand around and watch me throw down, or just place yourself in unnecessary danger by not using good officer survival tactics... [-(Don't flippin' respond!!!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Spot on! Reminds me of the old cartoon where the yappy dog starts the fights and lets the big bulldog finish em.

Howard


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I have a question, what do you guys do to avoid blood borne diseases when your dog bites and I'm assuming there is some blood in most cases.

Do you always remember to glove up in anticipation of this ?


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## Paul Coffman (Jul 24, 2006)

so posting "random" live bite pics are not allowed?


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I have a question, what do you guys do to avoid blood borne diseases when your dog bites and I'm assuming there is some blood in most cases.
> 
> Do you always remember to glove up in anticipation of this ?


Slap on the latex gloves.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I have a question, what do you guys do to avoid blood borne diseases when your dog bites and I'm assuming there is some blood in most cases.
> 
> Do you always remember to glove up in anticipation of this ?


I'm more afraid of being jabbed by a dirty needle than I am of being shot. Anyway, glove up. All my handlers carry a bottle of peroxide in addition to the gloves. It's not only a good emetic, but it can be used to clean up with as well. There has never been a reported case of a blood borne disease transfered by a dog.

DFrost


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

When the dew hits the fan I never wanted to think twice about the efforts of my partner. If we had K-9 in the day, I would want to know it wouldn't just run up and "woof" at the dirtball. Just like the bad cop that wants to "please" everyone with Mr. Rogers nice, nice sayings. Folks have 5 seconds to move out and you've wasted three of them <door popper opens and Fluffy runs out> 

Now about that coffee and donut issue...anyone buying!:twisted: =D> <bucks fall out, dirtballs leave> Paperwork begins...


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

as far as gloves go, those are for the back up officers. in just about every case, my job is to control the dog and i don't go hands on with a guy my dog just bit. if i'm by myself and the dog bites a bad guy, once he gives up, i out the dog and just have the guy lay there until back up arrives who will then take him into custody.

related story....

a handler in an agency not too far from me was doing a yard to yard search for a guy with felony warrants who ran from officers. as per protocol, he knocked on the door to this one house and told the homeowner that they were searching for a felon and that the dog would be off leash in his yard, so stay inside. so the handler directs the dog to search and the dog takes off into the backyard. well they hear screaming, they go back and sure enough the homeowner is wearing the dog. handler outs the dog, and put him in the back of the car to wind down a bit before continuing the search. the homeowner said he thought it would be neat to watch the dog work. knew he was wrong/stupid and took full responsibility. so after a few minutes the handler goes out to the car to get the dog. the dog is still wound up from the bite and when the handler pulls him out, the dog gives him a quick nip on the hand. they finish the search (the guy ran into a perimeter officer) and the handler goes to the hospital to check on the homeowner. homeowner says he's ok, but tells the handler that he's HiV +. even though, as was said, there are no known cases of this type of transfer, i believe he still had to go through the injection protocol...


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Tim at that point they need to "put down" the homeowner for being a 100% moron! Never heard of the dog getting HIV, doesn't that have to do with body temps as well? Should have given the homeowner a ticket for screwing up an investigation, dumbness after hours, being line bred.:-k


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Now about that coffee and donut issue...anyone buying!:twisted: =D> <bucks fall out, dirtballs leave> Paperwork begins...



These donuts you speak of; are they the same as power rings?

DFrost


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Tim Martens said:


> the dog is still wound up from the bite and when the handler pulls him out, the dog gives him a quick nip on the hand. they finish the search (the guy ran into a perimeter officer) and the handler goes to the hospital to check on the homeowner. homeowner says he's ok, but tells the handler that he's HiV +. even though, as was said, there are no known cases of this type of transfer, i believe he still had to go through the injection protocol...


This is what I was wondering about, not necessarily from being bit by your dog but the possible transfer from handling afterwards. I'm grateful when I was younger pretty much all you could catch from a stranger was a bad itch.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> This is what I was wondering about, not necessarily from being bit by your dog but the possible transfer from handling afterwards. I'm grateful when I was younger pretty much all you could catch from a stranger was a bad itch.


yes, that was the concern, that the dog had the homeowner's HiV + blood is his mouth and the dog then bites the handler and breaks skin.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I went through a series of HIV tests for six months after blood contamination. My dog ate up a bank robber and returned to me with his whole head covered in blood. I thought he had been shot but it turned out it was the bad guys' blood. I had open wounds on my arms from previous hidden sleeve work and got blood on my arms. I was told there was a miniscule chance of getting HIV but I went through the tests anyway.

Howard


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## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

> If it had been a GSD, he would have you stay in the car with A/C running and asked you to have another pastry. The GSD would have went in pulled the door off the hinges snatched the man out, drug him to the car and body slammed him in the back seat.
> 
> 
> > Amen to that....great minds think alike!
> ...


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