# Nightmare reality - HELP!!!!!



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Okay, I am completely and utterly skeeved right now. My car suddenly stopped working. Had it towed to my mechanic........RODENTS HAVE EATEN ALL THE WIRING!!!!!!! I can handle the idea of most any critter except I have a mice/rat phobia, and the idea of rats or mice scampering anywhere on my premisis has me totally freaked OUT. I can handle the idea of them in Sequim because those are country mice and rats, but mean ass Los Angeles city mice and rats....well that's a whole nother story as far as I'm concerned. yuck yuck and yuck

The damage is major, I guess the good news is it's covered by my insurance, minus the $500. deductible and I have Rental Car coverage too. Obviously that $500 is still one hell o'chunk o change and I would like to prevent this from happening ever again.

Can anyone give me some good hints for keeping NASTY ASS CRITTERS from chewing the wiring (or anything else) out of my car? I do not park in a garage, I park on the street or in my driveway. I live in a pretty nice area, but a lot of neighbors do have ivy on the hillsides, and I understand that's where these nasty things live. I can't do anything about that, but is there something I can put in my car to make them leave my car alone?


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

That's disgusting. I can't get beyond the visual as I have that same terrible phobia. I can just imagine them in... well, everywhere. I have no ideas, just a revolted look and a frown on my face to offer you.


----------



## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Okay, I am completely and utterly skeeved right now. My car suddenly stopped working. Had it towed to my mechanic........RODENTS HAVE EATEN ALL THE WIRING!!!!!!! I can handle the idea of most any critter except I have a mice/rat phobia, and the idea of rats or mice scampering anywhere on my premisis has me totally freaked OUT. I can handle the idea of them in Sequim because those are country mice and rats, but mean ass Los Angeles city mice and rats....well that's a whole nother story as far as I'm concerned. yuck yuck and yuck
> 
> The damage is major, I guess the good news is it's covered by my insurance, minus the $500. deductible and I have Rental Car coverage too. Obviously that $500 is still one hell o'chunk o change and I would like to prevent this from happening ever again.
> 
> Can anyone give me some good hints for keeping NASTY ASS CRITTERS from chewing the wiring (or anything else) out of my car? I do not park in a garage, I park on the street or in my driveway. I live in a pretty nice area, but a lot of neighbors do have ivy on the hillsides, and I understand that's where these nasty things live. I can't do anything about that, but is there something I can put in my car to make them leave my car alone?


Rat poison. Square box of food pellets. Put them under the seat. Cooler weather or a good food source and they come in.


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

See Dave, this is clearly a phobia for both Susan and I. The thought of poison, especially a solution that seems so simple couldn't come to mind. Nothing honestly occurred to me as a solution. All I could think about was them crawling all over her car, in her seats, the vents, glove box, etc... I need to go throw up now.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Dave Colborn said:


> Rat poison. Square box of food pellets. Put them under the seat. Cooler weather or a good food source and they come in.


Put them under the drivers seat???? Aren't they in where the wiring is under the car, but not IN my car????? Oh please tell me they aren't actually in my car where I am in my car????? 

This is So Cali, so the weather changes are hot and hotter. When I have rollover for tracking it's in a plastic container inside another plastic container and there are no critters in either one of those boxes. I don't ever keep any food in my car.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chicago rats destroy vehicles all the time, and march around in packs, in broad daylight...I am sure the LA rats are just as tough...

Be glad they are not getting into your home...yet....

I recommend watching the movie "Of Unknown Origin", it's an old B movie, but shows some good techniques for taking out rats..

Just trying to help


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

joby becker said:


> just trying to help


*liar!!!!! :razz:*


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

When I had an RV, I did a search on how to keep the critters from setting up camp in there. I ended up putting Bounce dryer sheets all over the place and pieces of Irish Spring bar soap everywhere.

I pictured very clean rats sleeping in beds that smell like fresh laundry, but I never saw any evidence of mice or rats. I seem to remember the info I got was very specific about the brands, too. Weird. Maybe it was a clever marketing scheme, but it worked for me. And my RV smelled very fresh.

I also recently heard that peppermint oil repels squirrels, so maybe it works with mice.

Laura


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maybe they are already....

Do the dogs routinely fire up for no apparent reason in their crates at night? (if you have them) Does your furniture seem like it might have been moved while you were gone? By the dogs or....something else..

Does the house shudder, or vibrate at all?


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

A good "bucket of death" trap can knock down local numbers fast...and then poison as well. 

But ensure that your dog will never be able to get to the poison, my Toller wolfed down a huge chunk of rat bait that was in an unsecured location, right in front of me this spring at my work. Then he REFUSED to puke it up and made me drive two hours to the vet while he started to digest it.:evil:](*,)


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> When I had an RV, I did a search on how to keep the critters from setting up camp in there. I ended up putting Bounce dryer sheets all over the place and pieces of Irish Spring bar soap everywhere.
> 
> I pictured very clean rats sleeping in beds that smell like fresh laundry, but I never saw any evidence of mice or rats. I seem to remember the info I got was very specific about the brands, too. Weird. Maybe it was a clever marketing scheme, but it worked for me. And my RV smelled very fresh.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Laura. I'll try those things too.

Joby, there are no rodents of any kind in my house, thank you very much. The only time my house vibrates is when we have an earthquake and the only time my dogs fire up is when someone walks by the house. The only one who moves my furniture is me.


----------



## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Maybe they are already....
> 
> Do the dogs routinely fire up for no apparent reason in their crates at night? (if you have them) Does your furniture seem like it might have been moved while you were gone? By the dogs or....something else..
> 
> Does the house shudder, or vibrate at all?



You aren't right Joby Becker!!! But please answer the questions Susan!!!


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Dave Colborn said:


> You aren't right Joby Becker!!! But please answer the questions Susan!!!


See above. :roll: (rolling eyes not to indicate anything other than looking up at answer which is above your last post)


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

poison is the easiest way, in and around your house. 
I live in the country side, and to bad, we had a lot of rats instead of mice around the house. Dogs killed a couple of adult ones, they're big! They had babies cause i saw them running around, and heard them. I have several poison kits around now.

Oh, you get I'm not scared about them, and dont mind a few rats or mice (comes with the area) but it was bad this year.


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

What if the dog gets to the mouse or rat that has eaten the poison? Secondary poisoning. Aren't you worried about that? I'm too much of a worrier to have poisons around the house. 

Laura


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

You can only imagine rainbow colored fuffy rats playing in a febreezed my little pony coral, on a bedding of downy fabric softener for so long.

I used to live in your world, with the vision of fluffy cuteness.

That vision slid horribly at an incapacitating angle...Once I stared into the eye of a hideous disfigured, battle scarred, Segreant At Arms, Rat.

His fur was all oil soaked, and was missing chunks all over, and he just stared at me, flossing his teeth with a 4 gauge wire, from an oven.

He was too smart for the poisons, so I came in early when they turned on the dough machine, at the local pizza joint, waiting for him to jump out of it, like he had been doing for years...and I got him with this









I saw one get shot twice and still make it, he was particularly resilient.

One of them ate enough poison to kill a Rottweiler, over a period of about 9 months  and I was there to witness his last minutes.

It was like the end of the movie The Terminator..when the robot is pulling itself across the floor with one arm..I am dead serious.

But those we tame restaurant variety, the river, and street versions are the real battle-hardened thugs in jackboots.

I saw one once, that I seriously thought was a dog for more than a few seconds...


----------



## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

Put sticky paper around all four tires if you don't want to use poison. Living in the country rodents are always around, but we have a stray ferret (no kidding) that hangs around once in a while and wipes out the population before moving on. 

Ang


----------



## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

If you're worried about poison those glue traps work very well. Altho then you have to dispose of the sometimes live critter stuck to the trap. If you have an outdoor cat they will sometimes take care of the body for you. Lol. 

I had a mouse problem getting into my cars too for awhile, when my cat took a sabbatical and went "somewhere". Hes back tho so all is well in my outdoor world.


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

EWWW. You are evil!!

One night I was outside with my dog. I told him to get his ballie. He went around the corner and came back with the biggest rat I've ever seen in his mouth. It was dead. I got him to out it and took the dog inside. I left it out there hoping some other critter would find it and pick it up. No such luck. It was bigger than the pooper scooper I used to pick it up with. That was years ago and it still gives me the willies. I'm such a wuss.

I tried the sticky traps once. Ended up with only a leg. Tried the big spring rat traps. Ended up with a leg on one and the other was completely missing. Plus if I did end up with a whole dead rat, my mom had to come over to dispose of it for me. Same with the squirrel and gopher traps. I can set them, but I can't clean them out. Mom is NOT proud of me in that respect.

Laura


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

New York









Vicious attack thwarted..










Poor Chicago child got caught slippin...









Average California River Rat.









LA River Rat.
This guy is not smiling, he is locked into a life and death battle with this rat that killed his brother, there is a look of utter fear and agony, under those sunglasses..got ambushed on the boat...









And finally the Common LA Street Rat










Caught by Chinese Restaurant cook..









picture, caught by next of kin










the reason I moved out of the city...could not take the nightmares, they finally overcame me...









I wish you luck with the fabric softener and sticky traps...and the rainbows and unicorns of course...
You can always try the Patterdale if you have to...I just recommend getting more than 1 or 2...I thought 2 would be good, but they lasted only 2 days, one died from a grevious neck injury, and the other was catatonic after attempting to defend my disabled brother from a particularly brutal attack...


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Ahhh Joby, some pics are really gross!


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Ahhh Joby, some pics are really gross!


FINE...hold on to the fantasy as long as you can...


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Thank you for the nightmares I am sure to have tonight! 

Laura


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

True story:

I had a friend named Olive. She was 81 years old and pretty much blind. She lived in a beautiful house in the hills with her standard poodle named Star. She called the rat man out, who came and put those sticky traps around her house, including some along the walls of her living room. One morning at dawn, she heard Star barking like mad. She walked out into the living room & stepped right on a sticky trap that also had a big ole rat on it. (The rat had managed to move the sticky trap thingy to the middle of the room). Now the rat started to attack Olive, biting her all over her foot and lower leg. She dragged the damn thing outside to a shovel and beat it to death with the shovel while it was on the sticky paper and biting her. She sat down in a chair and waited until "a decent hour" to call for help - She didn't want to wake anyone up!!!


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> True story:
> 
> I had a friend named Olive. She was 81 years old and pretty much blind. She lived in a beautiful house in the hills with her standard poodle named Star. She called the rat man out, who came and put those sticky traps around her house, including some along the walls of her living room. One morning at dawn, she heard Star barking like mad. She walked out into the living room & stepped right on a sticky trap that also had a big ole rat on it. (The rat had managed to move the sticky trap thingy to the middle of the room). Now the rat started to attack Olive, biting her all over her foot and lower leg. She dragged the damn thing outside to a shovel and beat it to death with the shovel while it was on the sticky paper and biting her. She sat down in a chair and waited until "a decent hour" to call for help - She didn't want to wake anyone up!!!


remember to think about that next time you reach under your car seat for something, or drop your cell phone into the footwell of the car.


----------



## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

Yes, been there done that. More than once. They are mice, not rats. And yes, they are probably inside your car, living the good life snuggling up at night in the carpet and eating whatever you leave in there that is edible at night. 

first thing, make sure you clean out your car thoroughly, and be sure to remove anything edible, even stuff you might drop while snacking in there. drinks too, especially if you place poison as this will make them seek out water/liquid.

You won't see them and probably won't hear them as most of the time you are in your vehicle you will be driving, then the mice either won't be in there (probably just coming in at night) or they will not make enough noise for you to hear them.

Trust me, if they are in your car they aren't living in the engine compartment. They like cozy places unless they make a nest in the engine, they will be inside or behind your seats or under the carpet somewhere, in the trunk or somewhere else cozy.

I've heard about the dryer sheets - also heard that putting mothballs in the engine compartment works to get them gone. Poison may work long-term but it's also a food source that may attract them inside. I'd probably place the poison outside the car, along the vine area or in the grass, or in some bushes near the car. There are poison "holders" so dogs can't gulp it down - mouse goes in, eats and leaves and poison is safe from other animals getting to it.


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> FINE...hold on to the fantasy as long as you can...


No, i believe you, but thought the rats i Had seen wer big, but they are really small if i see your pics.


----------



## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

Sticky paper on tyres may not work well, rats are really good jumpers, horizontal and vertical. How about a .177 air rifle? You could overcome your phobia by using your object of fear for target practice. Just set a few small pieces of salami out for bait & pick them off as they come for dinner.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ricardo Ashton said:


> Sticky paper on tyres may not work well, rats are really good jumpers, horizontal and vertical. How about a .177 air rifle? You could overcome your phobia by using your object of fear for target practice. Just set a few small pieces of salami out for bait & pick them off as they come for dinner.


that will probably just enrage them  Rats are pretty smart, and organized...


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> New York
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwWcYyhrN_I

Ang


----------



## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

When I lived in NY I would occasionally hear stories of homeless people getting snacked on by rats. The homeless would sometimes be so passed out drunk and smelling of food/garbage etc that the rats would take to snacking on human flesh. 

So moral of the story is dont get so drunk and pass out where the rats and mice are that you dont feel them feasting on your flesh. Personally I know a lot of people pass out in their cars, and, well, not saying your one of those Susan, but if you are well.... hopefully your insurance covers rat bites?


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

mel boschwitz said:


> So moral of the story is dont get so drunk and pass out where the rats and mice are that you dont feel them feasting on your flesh. Personally I know a lot of people pass out in their cars, and, well, not saying your one of those Susan, but if you are well.... hopefully your insurance covers rat bites?


Pass out in my car???????? Seriously?????? Not lately anyways..............................................:lol:


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

you might want to check out this site--i call them frick and frack--but i listen regularly and may have an idea or 2 for you. good luck!

http://cartalk.com/


----------



## Angelo Berios (Aug 15, 2011)

I had read about this a while back. May not be practical in this situation. One answer is working dogs...

http://www.terrierman.com/ratdog.htm

http://www.terrierman.com/dogsrats.htm


----------



## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

Uh, eww.
I don't do rodents well...at all. It's one of my few very girly traits. They gross me out hardcore.
But now I will have rats on the brain when I get in my car early tomorrow morning.
Joby you obviously didn't help.


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Best solution = Open hood when you park and leave open. No need for any other measures  (you can not eradicate rodents, just do not invite them in a cozy, warm engine compartment).


----------



## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

ROUSes



Joby Becker said:


> New York
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Faisal Khan said:


> Best solution = Open hood when you park and leave open. No need for any other measures  (you can not eradicate rodents, just do not invite them in a cozy, warm engine compartment).


Thanks Faisal. I'll try this, along with the Downey dryer sheets, peppermint rags, moth balls & "Shake Away" rodent repellent....eek eek eek 8-[


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Faisal Khan said:


> Best solution = Open hood when you park and leave open. No need for any other measures  (you can not eradicate rodents, just do not invite them in a cozy, warm engine compartment).


Yeah don't try that in Chicago, and the damn rats might even steal your battery, radiator and various other engine parts, if the bums and night crawlers don't get to them first...


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Get a terrier!
I used to go rat hunting on a pig farm. The rats would burrow and nest under the hog troughs. 
Half a dozen terriers and a couple of folks to tip the trough up and you've got a fast and furious couple of mins.
Don't forget to wrap your pant legs with duct tape. The rats will dive for anything that looks like a tunnel. :twisted::twisted:
I've always heard that hogs will keep rats in check but this place was crawling with them.
Fun afternoon though. :grin: :wink:


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Most of those "rats" that Joby had pictures of are not even _Rattus norvegicus_ and would never get that large. I love my pet rats. The one girl who is not a rescue is actually a nicely pedigreed Russian blue Siamese whose mother was a grand champion show rat. Yes, people show rats. :razz: 

Anyways, get rid of the food and water source and they will, for the most part, go away. Might check if anyone's got an excellent mouser barn cat they could loan to you for a few weeks. The problem is having people NOT feed the darn cat so it still wants to hunt. They make outstanding reuseable snap traps now too. I don't like glue traps (it's inhumane) or poison (also inhumane and can cause secondary poisoning). If you're going to kill them, either have a cat do it (assuming it's mice and not rats) or the good traps.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Get a terrier!
> I used to go rat hunting on a pig farm. The rats would burrow and nest under the hog troughs.
> Half a dozen terriers and a couple of folks to tip the trough up and you've got a fast and furious couple of mins.
> Don't forget to wrap your pant legs with duct tape. The rats will dive for anything that looks like a tunnel. :twisted::twisted:
> ...


"back in the day" Dad would close off any rat holes he could find, then hook up the lawnmower exhaust to go into one--any rats that came out of a hole he didn't see/couldn't get to were dispatched by our welsh corgi &/or a pitchfork. didn't do it too often, but it was a rodeo when he did. and Reddy thought it was great fun ;-):lol:


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Most of those "rats" that Joby had pictures of are not even _Rattus norvegicus_ and would never get that large. I love my pet rats.


Well, I feel better knowing that. Thanks Maren. I know you see it differently but IMO having a rat for a pet seems about as useful or interesting as having a booger collection. Who the hell wants to see or handle either except the person who possesses them? :-&


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

over 40 posts and only one mentioned cats .... what's wrong with you people ?
anti - cats ??
why do u think their nicknames are "mouser" ???
good for the dogs too ....
will also make the big rats look elsewhere for a hangout
but since rodents really don't like to go cruising, if they're in a car it's only because they are nest building (unlikely) or eating (much more likely)
- any idea how many mice a good mouser can clear from around a barn source in one year ?? LOTS  
.....(maybe build a small barn for your car/cats?)
- you can definitely make a dog really sick if you feed it the right poison via mice :-(
- so get some real predators and let the genetics work for you ... they don't require marker training and will never be run off by a mouse


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

I have 2 cats who are both mice/baby rat/baby rabbit(hare) killers... but they dont get the adult rats..


----------



## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

I used to keep pet rats, they're very smart and unlike hamsters etc. will not bite your kids. I had a little brown female who would sit on my shoulder while we went for a walk with the dogs.

Cats are great mousers but for large rats you really need a ratter dog usually a terrier. See if you can borrow one.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Anyways, get rid of the food and water source and they will, for the most part, go away. Might check if anyone's got an excellent mouser barn cat they could loan to you for a few weeks. The problem is having people NOT feed the darn cat so it still wants to hunt. They make outstanding reuseable snap traps now too. I don't like glue traps (it's inhumane) or poison (also inhumane and can cause secondary poisoning). If you're going to kill them, either have a cat do it (assuming it's mice and not rats) or the good traps.


1. AGAIN there is NO food or water source that I can control. This is occuring OUTSIDE, in the street where I park my car. 

2. Barn cats??? This is happening in a Los Angeles suburb, there are no "barn cats" here. There are coyotes, which generally take care of the cats people are stupid enough to let out of their houses.

Same thing happened to the Mercedes that belongs to our tenant at another property we own - but to the tune of $10,000. so I guess in some respects I am very lucky.

According to my mechanic and according to Travelers (my insurance company), this is unfortunately not an uncommon occurence in the city. 

Sorry but I don't really care about being "humane" to the rats so we WILL be setting traps as well. Would LOVE to kill the stinking rat bastards just won't do it with poison because of the dogs.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

rick smith said:


> over 40 posts and only one mentioned cats .... what's wrong with you people ?
> anti - cats ??
> why do u think their nicknames are "mouser" ???
> good for the dogs too ....
> ...


A good few years ago I watched a dog at a trial doing the "search square". All went well until the dog heard / felt a mole under the earth that he literally sucked up and ate on the spot - I was near enough to hear the bones being crunched.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: "1. AGAIN there is NO food or water source that I can control. This is occuring OUTSIDE, in the street where I park my car. 
- if it's been sudden, suggest you also check with the neighbors.....coulda had a problem with em elsewhere, driven away and now they are migrating to the "next best" place/car,,,,,,if so, just keep em moving .... or throw crumbs under the cars of the problem neighbors when u walk your dog at night 

2. Barn cats??? This is happening in a Los Angeles suburb, there are no "barn cats" here. There are coyotes, which generally take care of the cats people are stupid enough to let out of their houses."
- ALL cats are barn cats whether they got a barn to hang out in or not - it's GENETICS  ... born to kill mice and small rodents, unless they grow up together 
....not to believe that is only denial by the people who keep em inside most of the time and think they're fur ball babies 
- get em free at the shelter and turn em loose ... they do fine as ferals and you've already proved there is a food source .... let em compete with the coyotes 
... but coyotes are your friends too ... they like mice better than cats and can catch em a lot easier...if you didn't have the coyotes you'd probably have rabbits snakes and lizards in your car too .... or maybe the coyotes are driving em into cars 

- i grew up in SoCal, and even saw coyotes at the Hughes airstrip near marina del rey.....they're not as big a problem compared to the cougar encroachment because coyotes don't prey on humans

but i think you should accept it is mostly the food "source" that is attracting them and keep at it ... even if it is just miniscule crumbs or residual odors from dog treats by you or the dogs

and accept the fact they are like roaches - impossible to exterminate - all you can do is control / deter


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

And I think you should accept the fact that maybe YOU don't know what you're talking about. There is no food accessible to rodents in my car = period.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> 1. AGAIN there is NO food or water source that I can control. This is occuring OUTSIDE, in the street where I park my car.
> 
> 2. Barn cats??? This is happening in a Los Angeles suburb, there are no "barn cats" here. There are coyotes, which generally take care of the cats people are stupid enough to let out of their houses.
> 
> ...


I'm not a mechanic, but I'd suspect of your car drips water from the condensation from your air conditioner, yes, there will be water. And if any neighbors are feeding cats or dogs or whatever outside, there's a food source. I'm saying borrow a barn cat (i.e.-ask any friends who ride horses if they have any at the stable, as most riding stables have them to keep rodents down). Particularly if the barn cats are smart enough to avoid the coyotes.

I didn't say don't use traps. I said you can be humane about how you use them. Snap traps are a pretty quick and clean way to die, versus starving to death or dehydration on a glue trap or bleeding to death internally over the course of many hours as with rodent poison. I've seen dogs die first hand of rodenticide, I wouldn't want any critter to go that way. I have mice in my own house that like to move in right around this time of the year. Between the good quality and inexpensive snap traps and our cat (and making sure all food sources are put into rodent proof containers), the population is kept down. With traps, you also don't have the problem of the rodent dying somewhere and it end up smelling with no way to reach the body to remove it. I have had excellent results with the Ortho Home Defense Max mouse traps. You can reuse them if you like (I caught 10 mice over the course of last fall when they really moved in with just one trap). I get them at Lowe's and bait with a little peanut butter then place them in the runways.

http://www.amazon.com/Ortho-0321110-Defense-Press-Mouse/dp/tags-on-product/B003YL4MG0


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

How is it any more humane to use a cat to kill a mouse? When I was growing up, we had a mouse-catching cat. She'd basically play with them to death. It took a long time and certainly wasn't a clean kill. Do you think it's more humane because it's "natural"?

Either way, it's gross.

Laura


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I prefer snap traps as number one, but cats can sometimes get the tricky ones that don't seem to want to get to the traps for whatever reason. My mousing cat is likewise a little sadist, but he likes to play because we feed him. They seem a little less likely to bat them around around if they are hunting them for their sole food source. 

If I were a mouse and given a choice on the way to die, I'd probably pick snap traps (usually over in less than 30 seconds, if that), then a cat (several minutes if they don't kill them right away), then poison (bleeding to death internally over a few hours to days), then glue traps (painfully ripping fur and skin off trying to escape then dying several days later from dehydration/starvation). That's just me though. There are also little boxes that electrocute the mice when they enter with a shock. If it's over quick, that'd be fine too.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Most of those "rats" that Joby had pictures of are not even _Rattus norvegicus_ and would never get that large.


really? LOL

You ARE smart....
I was experimenting with the human psychological aspect of the thread, not the rats...


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Maybe you missed it. Cats are a moot point since outdoor cats don't last around here.

Like I said, I'm going with the Downey Dryer Sheets, Peppermint Oil, Moth Balls and Shake Away. 

Thanks everyone, for your suggestions.


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Just poison them. I do, 3-4 times a year. Mix a tablespoon of peanut butter with poison pellets, serve in bait boxes around your property, keep checking and refilling bait for at least a week or however long they keep eating it. Then pick up, get rid of remaining mixed bait, and store the boxes until the next time you notice a few rats.

Works wonderfully, and keeps them from learning to avoid bait.

I never had much luck with any traps, they are smart enough to avoid them after the first few die.

Mice OTOH are stupid enough to get stuck to glue traps with their whole litters. LOL


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Maybe you missed it. Cats are a moot point since outdoor cats don't last around here.
> 
> Like I said, I'm going with the Downey Dryer Sheets, Peppermint Oil, Moth Balls and Shake Away.
> 
> Thanks everyone, for your suggestions.


AND with the hood up! 

Anna, I'm very much tempted to use poison, but am afraid to use posion in case a dog were to get ahold of a poisoned rat.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Maybe you missed it. Cats are a moot point since outdoor cats don't last around here.


Sue, we have coyotes in Missouri too. When I got to one of the trails I take my dogs about 5 minutes from my house, I can hear them howl if we leave when it's already dark. Smart barn cats (especially a tough tom) that make it to adults can do okay. And you would probably only need them around for a few weeks.

BTW: I'm not a fan of feral cats and I think most TNR programs are not successful. I would prefer they be humanely euthanized if they cannot be adopted out since they kill wildlife and can spread disease. TNR people tend to think ferals live an idyllic life and pass gently in their sleep, which is rarely the case. They often get hit by cars, killed by dogs/coyotes, ripped up by fan belts in the cars when they seek warmth, die of FIV or FeLV, etc. However, barn cats can sometimes have a place if they are being cared for, vaccinated, and are not intact to breed more.


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

When I had a puppy one time, the pup and my adult mix were outside. They started barking like crazy so I went out to see what was going on. There was a beautiful coyote on the other side of the fence in my neighbor's yard, standing about five feet away. I yelled at it to go away. It looked at me, like "you GTFO." So I did. Grabbed my puppy and mutt and went inside.

I don't see too many cats around here! 

Laura


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Feral cats can drive even pacifist, anti-gun people to want to go buy firearms and get busy with them! especially if you have a kennel.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I have seen coyote trotting down the street with a kitty snack in it


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I have seen coyote trotting down the street with a kitty snack in it


meant to say with a kitty snack in it's jaws.

Anyway, the claims adjuster just went out and saw my car. The good news is no signs of nesting in the car. The damage is around $1,500. and I have my rental car now so I'm happy.
:lol:


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

since TNR was brought up....
i'm a huge fan 
i've done two it in two different local communities and it made a big impact on stabilizing the populations and keeping it healthy and parasite free

fwiw, nobody connected with a TNR program i worked on felt feral cats live an idyllic life ](*,)
feral cats live a shitty life, and that is for the ones who actually make it to maturity.....the ones who really suffer are the kittens...around here the mortality rate is in the 60-70% range :-(
...and those are the ones that actually make it to BIRTH...many are aborted from young females that aren't strong enough to carry the litter and many are born dead
- if you have encountered TNR groups that are not aware of this they're probably just tree huggers

the two biggest obstacles i've faced are :
1. the old ladies who think they are "kind hearted" feeders instead of realizing they are breeders.....when they can get it into their thick skulls that it costs less to S/N than they are spending on food every year, and that their "favorites" will live a few years longer, they actually start to get it
2. vets who are too money hungry to step up and do some community service and give people like me a break on the S/N charges since we are the ones who invest all our time and money in it for nothing more than animal welfare and simple community service.....and i don't expect it for free either, just a "break", as in cheaper ... but i also get tired of hearing them spout about the health hazards of feral cats...my gut feeling is they think as soon as soon as they do 3-4 they will be getting more and more ferals every week - sorry, but it doesn't work that way at all 

but for some reason, the millions of people who allow their dogs to crap/pee all over the same parks their children play in and the sidewalks they play on are never a target from vets interested in animal "health problems" 
....at least cats crap in private and cover it up. dogs don't and owners rarely clean it all up :-( 
- and unless your dogs are different than the ones here, not many parents seem to realize that a dogs favorite spot to pee and mark is under the trees where their kids like to play and where they spread out their picnic lunches.... don't even start on where the bigger health hazard is 
- we even rake the kids sandboxes daily in the two TNR places i did it, but i guess that kind of community involvement may not be common where you live

anyway, imo feral cats, like cockroaches and rodents are a fact of life and a well run TNR program helps control that fact of life better than just trying to kill em off - that has never worked effectively in any community where statistics were accurately kept 
- it's just another "won't ever die" myth like sticking your hand in front of a strange dog to "let em sniff you" 

personally i've never heard they are also endangering wildlife, but i guess they might be adding some predatory competition in some parts of the world
- are they wiping out squirrel populations or something like that ?
- what are they endangering ?

sorry, rant over - back to rats and dogs


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

rick smith said:


> since TNR was brought up....
> i'm a huge fan
> i've done two it in two different local communities and it made a big impact on stabilizing the populations and keeping it healthy and parasite free
> 
> ...


All the ones I've met around here are convinced that it is much better for the kitties to die of exposure, dogs/coyotes, by vehicles, FeLV/FIV, etc than to die by lethal injection. They w



> the two biggest obstacles i've faced are :
> 1. the old ladies who think they are "kind hearted" feeders instead of realizing they are breeders.....when they can get it into their thick skulls that it costs less to S/N than they are spending on food every year, and that their "favorites" will live a few years longer, they actually start to get it


Yep, I can see that...



> 2. vets who are too money hungry to step up and do some community service and give people like me a break on the S/N charges since we are the ones who invest all our time and money in it for nothing more than animal welfare and simple community service.....and i don't expect it for free either, just a "break", as in cheaper ... but i also get tired of hearing them spout about the health hazards of feral cats...my gut feeling is they think as soon as soon as they do 3-4 they will be getting more and more ferals every week - sorry, but it doesn't work that way at all


Maybe because we keep getting burned by rescue groups and TNR people that never pay their bills and who are no more than glorified hoarders. Already worked with some of them. No thanks. And yeah, I absolutely know of vets who get taken advantage of by rescue groups. No where in my oath does it say I'm obligated to provide pro bono assistance for an invasive species. I'm doing spays/neuters at a shelter now and only getting paid $15-25 per cat spay/neuter. Not making any money off that, trust me. 

As I said before, if you can adopt them out, that's great. But if you can't, they have to go. There's too many really nice non-feral cats in shelters that get PTS for no reason but space to spend money on an invasive species that multiplies extremely quickly, spreads diseases, and kills wildlife and that want nothing to do with humans. I don't hate cats, I actually rather like my own cat. But for ferals, it's a herd health problem and you have to make decisions based on the whole population, not on individuals, same as the rest of shelter medicine.




> but for some reason, the millions of people who allow their dogs to crap/pee all over the same parks their children play in and the sidewalks they play on are never a target from vets interested in animal "health problems"
> ....at least cats crap in private and cover it up. dogs don't and owners rarely clean it all up :-(
> - and unless your dogs are different than the ones here, not many parents seem to realize that a dogs favorite spot to pee and mark is under the trees where their kids like to play and where they spread out their picnic lunches.... don't even start on where the bigger health hazard is
> - we even rake the kids sandboxes daily in the two TNR places i did it, but i guess that kind of community involvement may not be common where you live


That's not true. My first year of vet school, our whole class presentation for the vet school house was called "The Straight Poop" where we outlined why it's important for public health to pick up after your dog.  And that's one reason we recommend year round heartworm prevention. The heartworm prevention also treats intestinal worms like hookworm and roundworm which are zoonotic to humans. I am also not a fan of feral or owned cats spreading toxoplasmosis or salmonella in people's vegetable gardens. The cats end up killing each other either through feline leukemia virus or FIV too. Not to mention big public health problems like rabies!



> anyway, imo feral cats, like cockroaches and rodents are a fact of life and a well run TNR program helps control that fact of life better than just trying to kill em off - that has never worked effectively in any community where statistics were accurately kept
> - it's just another "won't ever die" myth like sticking your hand in front of a strange dog to "let em sniff you"


Hey Sue, do you want to sponsor a TNR for the rats in your engine? I'm sure the population will sort itself out eventually. We don't allow other species like dogs or ferrets to run amok so they can chase livestock, spread disease, and be a general nuisance. Why do we permit cats to do so? Because a bunch of crazy cat ladies scream bloody murder, that's why. 

What I would propose is trap them and see if they can be adopted out. If they can, test for FeLV/FIV, spay/neuter them, vaccinate them, and microchip them. If they can't, euthanize them humanely. And for God's sake, people need to STOP FEEDING THEM.



> personally i've never heard they are also endangering wildlife, but i guess they might be adding some predatory competition in some parts of the world
> - are they wiping out squirrel populations or something like that ?
> - what are they endangering ?
> 
> sorry, rant over - back to rats and dogs


Yes, killing threatened or endangered song birds. If they would just stick to the stupid starlings (another invasive species!), I wouldn't care so much. :lol:


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I agree with everything Maren just said. 

And as long as we are on the subject of glorified rescue hoarders - has anyone seen that show "Animal Hoarders"?????? I SWEAR you can smell those awful cat people and their houses right through the TV set!!!!!! 

Worse than rats in an engine...:roll:


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Maybe you missed it. Cats are a moot point since outdoor cats don't last around here.


Need I tell you why they do not last? Ever find pieces of them laying under your car????


----------



## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I'm sure the wire-chewing culprits are mice, not rats. And yes, they probably are living inside your car, they can make nice houses in the smallest nook and cranny and you would never know they were there, until you find chewed wires, that is.

Go ahead and take everything out of your car, clean it thoroughly, vaccuum and take up any carpets you can take up, vaccuum underneath as best you can. What you can't reach (wayyy under seats, etc) maybe you can spray with some sort of repellant - maybe hornet spray, or.... ask an exterminator about what works as mouse repellant???

Then keep the car clean, no food droppings in there, keep food out or clean up before leaving it for the night. Mothballs in the engine compartment, under the seats, etc. 

don't put traps IN your car unless you check them every day - rotting mouse smell will not be pleasant.

and, the dramatic pictures of huge and plentiful rats that Joby shared are NOT rats found anywhere in the US - the giant-sized ones are African and Asian rats, the furry ones are giant rice rats or Mole rats or something similar to that - they use those big grey/white ones in african countries trained to search for mines, they work better than dogs because they work for food, and are too light to detonate mines by walking on them.

the picture of all the rats drinking the milk is from India, where there are temples who worship rats and people come to interact with and feed them by hand. Interesting culture who thinks dogs are dirty but rats are to be worshipped...


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Anna, I'm very much tempted to use poison, but am afraid to use posion in case a dog were to get ahold of a poisoned rat.


That is also why I only put poison out a few times a year, when it's out and for about a week after I pick it up, I really don't let dogs out unsupervised. Each morning I take a dog on leash and check the yard for dead/dying rats. About a week after I pick up the remaining poison, any dead rats I missed will be decayed enough to not be edible to my dogs (I hope). And think about it, if you don't use poison, one of your neighbors will, and you won't know when!

The amount of poison in one rat isn't enough to kill an adult GSD, if it makes you feel any better...


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> I'm sure the wire-chewing culprits are mice, not rats. And yes, they probably are living inside your car, they can make nice houses in the smallest nook and cranny and you would never know they were there, until you find chewed wires, that is.
> 
> Go ahead and take everything out of your car, clean it thoroughly, vaccuum and take up any carpets you can take up, vaccuum underneath as best you can. What you can't reach (wayyy under seats, etc) maybe you can spray with some sort of repellant - maybe hornet spray, or.... ask an exterminator about what works as mouse repellant???
> 
> ...


Hi Molly,
The Claims guy who went out and inspected and the electronics guy both said it was a rat. Both of them have seen this before, so they knew what to look for, where to look, etc.. Also there were no nests, no signs of nesting, and they have gone through everything with a fine tooth comb, including the interiors of the car as well as the entire engine compartment from the fire wall back!! The damage was limited to wiring in the harness loom thingamabob, from the picture it looks like it holds probably hundreds or thousands of wires. Apparently some think the wires have a salty taste that attracts rodents, some think gnawing on wire is a rodents preferred method of teeth sharpening/grinding, some think it's the heat from the engine compartment, but no one really knows for sure. 

I have my Nitro hand washed professionally, including the interiors twice a month. I very rarely eat in my car and when I carry rollover, it's in a plastic box contained inside another plastic box. I'm pretty anal about my car because it was my very first brand new car so I try to take really good care of it. All my other cars have been hand me downs from my hubby or other family members. :lol:

I will call exterminators and ask them about repellents for cars, I think that's a really good idea.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Molly Graf said:


> I'm sure the wire-chewing culprits are mice, not rats. And yes, they probably are living inside your car, they can make nice houses in the smallest nook and cranny and you would never know they were there, until you find chewed wires, that is.
> 
> Go ahead and take everything out of your car, clean it thoroughly, vaccuum and take up any carpets you can take up, vaccuum underneath as best you can. What you can't reach (wayyy under seats, etc) maybe you can spray with some sort of repellant - maybe hornet spray, or.... ask an exterminator about what works as mouse repellant???
> 
> ...


I think you are wrong, I think they are RATS..I personally have had rats destroy a car's wiring, and know many others that have been through the same thing. Of course I was posting fake pics, to be funny and leave an impression..but here is a picture of a decent sized Chicago rat...and trust me they can make a mess of a car, and other things...


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> That is also why I only put poison out a few times a year, when it's out and for about a week after I pick it up, I really don't let dogs out unsupervised. Each morning I take a dog on leash and check the yard for dead/dying rats. About a week after I pick up the remaining poison, any dead rats I missed will be decayed enough to not be edible to my dogs (I hope). And think about it, if you don't use poison, one of your neighbors will, and you won't know when!
> 
> The amount of poison in one rat isn't enough to kill an adult GSD, if it makes you feel any better...


Hey Anna - Guess what? I called a couple local exterminators and they basically said the same thing!! They recommend "bait boxes". Of course they want to do it and charge me as follows: 4 bait boxes in our front yard @ $50 per box = $200 then an additional $50 per month to maintain all of them. They also said that as far as secondary poisoning, it's not an issue with the poison they use, no secondary poisoning should a dog get a hold of a rat who ate the poison. I would imagine I can research whatever it is they use and do the same myself. I'll be checking further.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby

Enough with the fukin rat pictures already.
This is the Working DOG Forum
NOT the 
Weird Rat Forum


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Joby
> 
> Enough with the fukin rat pictures already.
> This is the Working DOG Forum
> ...



ha ha, I am not sure why I keep coming back to this topic but that was funny. I remember the first time I saw my Dutchie puppy wet from the river. I was horrified, she looked just like a long legged rat. I had to look away. I'm still creeped out by the thought of that.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Joby
> 
> Enough with the fukin rat pictures already.
> This is the Working DOG Forum
> ...


 
bbbbbbut Thomas isn't that what the Canine Lounge is for? Stuff not having anything to do with dogs?


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Hey Anna - Guess what? I called a couple local exterminators and they basically said the same thing!! They recommend "bait boxes". Of course they want to do it and charge me as follows: 4 bait boxes in our front yard @ $50 per box = $200 then an additional $50 per month to maintain all of them. They also said that as far as secondary poisoning, it's not an issue with the poison they use, no secondary poisoning should a dog get a hold of a rat who ate the poison. I would imagine I can research whatever it is they use and do the same myself. I'll be checking further.


Serously...I did pest control before, and have dealt with my share of bait boxes and all type of glue pads, and mechanical mouse traps.

We used a product for Rats, if was called Ditrac..came in big blocks...Works well, even on big rats in a pizza joint bread machine (which was a true story) Ideally they share it with thier buddies, but I have actually seen a rat eat a whole block by himself, I had about 20 boxes in a large restaraunt building, and went there 3 times a week, and the boxes were always empty, there were a lot of rats in there...I did actually see one die as well from the poison, and it was like I said, the terminator on his last scene....but the got knocked down very well in that place, good enough that I went back for pizza, after they got a new dough machine...

and yes those rat pics are mostly fake, but I have seen some HUGE rats...

All pest control is a rip-off..especially bee and hornet jobs...I would never pay 50.00 per box, they are plastic and retail for 12-15 dollars. The ditrac blocks come in a 1 lb block or 4 lb pail, 4 lbs is under $30.00.

There may be better products out there now, but pest control companies have used ditrac for years and years, I have used it, it is weatherproof, and works.

and I would bet my dogs life that it is safe against secondary exposure..

I had a Rottweiler eat what I would estimate at almost 2 lbs. of it, about 1/2 of a 4lb pail. 

I called the poison control center, my boss, the company that made it, and all told me not to worry...I did worry...but the dog was fine...

It is a blood thinner, made to work on small animals that eat a fair amount of it. It is not like a deadly poison that kills instantly...

I would say get 1 or 2 bait boxes at first and put a couple blocks in each, check them daily. Put them as close to problem areas as you can, they do have locking mechanisms on them, but I would not keep them where dogs will spend a lot of free time, just in case they take an interest in them, even so, if a good sized dog, eats a block or two, it is nothing to worry your self sick over...

I think they are available to the public....here is a link to just one website, that has the blocks and the boxes...

http://www.pestcontrolamerica.com/products/DITRAC-All-Weather-BLOX.html

the boxes are listed on the section for "rat control" here:
http://www.pestcontrolamerica.com/categories/Rat-Control/
along with other rat products...

Hopefully this helps some, so there, I contributed in a serious fashion..

Also as a sidenote..

we used PRECOR exclusively for fleas, unless it was so bad, that we had to tent and gas an area.

And we used MAXFORCE bait for roaches, and ants...

all of the above products worked extremely well for the company I worked for and the customers...

As in any pest situation, it can take time to work, and might be an uphill battle with an outdoor population, if it is largely concentrated in your area......


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> bbbbbbut Thomas isn't that what the Canine Lounge is for? Stuff not having anything to do with dogs?



Hey Susan

There's a LONG way from "not having anything to do with dogs"
to RATS


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

JOBY: Thanks, the info is MUCH appreciated. 

THOMAS: Very true - it's a long way from dogs to rats!!! :lol:

MAREN: After you posted about having a Siamese show rat, my curiosity was peaked, so I did a little searching around the net and some of those fancy rat varieties and colors are very interesting! The siamese coloring was the prettiest I thought. I also am charmed by those curly coated Rex Rats, the cute Dumbo rats and the Tailess rats. Pretty cool, actually! 8)


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> JOBY: Thanks, the info is MUCH appreciated.
> 
> THOMAS: Very true - it's a long way from dogs to rats!!! :lol:
> 
> MAREN: After you posted about having a Siamese show rat, my curiosity was peaked, so I did a little searching around the net and some of those fancy rat varieties and colors are very interesting! The siamese coloring was the prettiest I thought. I also am charmed by those curly coated Rex Rats, the cute Dumbo rats and the Tailess rats. Pretty cool, actually! 8)


I have also bred many hundreds, if not 1000's of domestic rats, used to keep snakes for almost 20 years...I would say a couple of juvenile reitculated pythons in the car would also work  they are aggressive eaters and very active when they are smaller,,,under 18 ft or so.. I'd keep the dogs away from them when they get 12ft or more though....


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I have also bred many hundreds, if not 1000's of domestic rats, used to keep snakes for almost 20 years...I would say a couple of juvenile reitculated pythons in the car would also work  they are aggressive eaters and very active when they are smaller,,,under 18 ft or so.. I'd keep the dogs away from them when they get 12ft or more though....


I dabled a little in snakes, nothing compared to you! I used to have some garter snakes and I fed them gold fish. Then I got a Columbian Red Tail boa. I had that for about 5 years, fed it mice, then rats. I had them when I lived in one of my first apartments out of college. When I moved into a house and could go back to having dogs I lost interest in the snakes and gave them to a friend who always wanted my boa anyway.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

ann schnerre said:


> "back in the day" Dad would close off any rat holes he could find, then hook up the lawnmower exhaust to go into one--any rats that came out of a hole he didn't see/couldn't get to were dispatched by our welsh corgi &/or a pitchfork. didn't do it too often, but it was a rodeo when he did. and Reddy thought it was great fun ;-):lol:



As a teenager in my old neighborhood some of the neighbors were complaining about all the rats when they went in the alleys. Being the good citizens we were a couple of guys took their cars and put hoses from the exhaust into the rat holes in the alley. 
Seemed to get rid of a lot of them but a couple of days later (in the heat of summer :-&) the neighbors weren't so appreciative of our handiwork. :lol:


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> As a teenager in my old neighborhood some of the neighbors were complaining about all the rats when they went in the alleys. Being the good citizens we were a couple of guys took their cars and put hoses from the exhaust into the rat holes in the alley.
> Seemed to get rid of a lot of them but a couple of days later (in the heat of summer :-&) the neighbors weren't so appreciative of our handiwork. :lol:


Yeah that is a downside of poisoning larger populations indoors as well.

They do also sell buckets of glue for making large rat glue traps...smear it on a large piece of cardboard....might suck if you caught a cat in it though


----------



## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Bob you realise those holes in the alley walls are connected to buildings that are not designed to keep out carbon monoxide, and fuel still had lead in back then....nice one.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Bob you realise those holes in the alley walls are connected to buildings that are not designed to keep out carbon monoxide, and fuel still had lead in back then....nice one.


At 16-17 yrs old, 50 yrs ago we really didn't give much thought....or care about that. It was fun!


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> MAREN: After you posted about having a Siamese show rat, my curiosity was peaked, so I did a little searching around the net and some of those fancy rat varieties and colors are very interesting! The siamese coloring was the prettiest I thought. I also am charmed by those curly coated Rex Rats, the cute Dumbo rats and the Tailess rats. Pretty cool, actually! 8)


I haven't taken enough pictures of Ruffian, my Russian blue Siamese, but here's her mom's page. She's a really lovely doe. My female, her daughter, has a fabulous temperament. I never got around to finding a suitable male to breed her with.

http://www.solickyrattery.com/Pages/Rats/SLKYBrooklyn.html

I used to have a Dalmatian rex rat buck named Rorschach. I had to put him down a few months ago. He was also a very nice rat. He just looks grumpy like his namesake here, even though he's not normally. 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100260643001290&l=36017b4c75


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I haven't taken enough pictures of Ruffian, my Russian blue Siamese, but here's her mom's page. She's a really lovely doe. My female, her daughter, has a fabulous temperament. I never got around to finding a suitable male to breed her with.
> 
> http://www.solickyrattery.com/Pages/Rats/SLKYBrooklyn.html
> 
> ...


Rorschach was gorgeous. If Ruffian looks like her mother then she is a stunning rat. I notice that a lot of people actually have their rats neutered. Aside from the obvious (not wanting to breed), are there other reasons for having pet rats altered? If someone were looking into getting their first pet rat, but that person wanted one of the fancy varieties, which would you say is the most docile and would you recommend a male or female, altering or not? How do you go about finding a good breeder? 

If you want, and have the time, you can answer me back in PM, I don't know if these questions hold much interest for the rest of the members.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> ... If you want, and have the time, you can answer me back in PM, I don't know if these questions hold much interest for the rest of the members.


Or start a thread if you want. This is the "not about dogs" part of the board.

There are threads (including some about working dogs) that some just aren't interested in. That's the nature of the board.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Rorschach was gorgeous. If Ruffian looks like her mother then she is a stunning rat. I notice that a lot of people actually have their rats neutered. Aside from the obvious (not wanting to breed), are there other reasons for having pet rats altered? If someone were looking into getting their first pet rat, but that person wanted one of the fancy varieties, which would you say is the most docile and would you recommend a male or female, altering or not? How do you go about finding a good breeder?
> 
> If you want, and have the time, you can answer me back in PM, I don't know if these questions hold much interest for the rest of the members.



About 50% of female rats will get mammary tumors if they are not spayed. They are not typically malignant, but they can grow very quickly and very large and decrease the quality of life for the rat. I've seen some females that were nearly as big as their tumor. :-o What also happens sometimes is their cage mates may pick at the tumor and it ends up ulcerated and bleeding, so that's no good either. So that's the biggest reason for the girls. For boys, this sounds kind of strange but their fur becomes nice and soft like the females. Then they can also live with other females too, which is nice. Males that are introduced as youngsters to other males or that were littermates usually get along fine, but I've had ones that fought and had to be separated. 

Actually I had a group of three males: the father named Steve after House's rat (my favorite male of all time who was my stud male), his son Junior, and Rorschach. Everybody got along great until Steve died. Then when I put Rorschach in with a girl to breed and put him back a day later, there was lots of fighting between Junior and Rorschach. I finally neutered Rorschach and put him back in with the girls (he had somewhat small testes anyways and was infertile or subfertile). I found another youngster male to live with Junior and they were fine. 

The biggest thing is you don't want to get just one rat. They are very, very social and don't do as well without a friend. Especially the females. I usually suggest getting a pair of males to start out with as they tend to be a little more laid back than females. Nobody likes the big rat balls, so most people new to rats go for females. :lol: Females are fine too, they just are typically a little more active and less inclined to just sit and be held, though most mellow out once they are past a year. My girl Ruffian is a fabulous lap rat and loves to be held. Most of my rats that I haven't bred myself have been rescues (I have two rescued girls right now that came from a hoarder). But the ones from a really good breeder are typically really nice. 

When getting one from a breeder, you want to make sure they are not breeding rats with active clinical Mycoplasmosis infections (causes a chronic sneezing and can end up with pneumonia or severe chronic ear infections that can end up being fatal). Just like dogs, temperament and health should absolutely number one, not color or ear set du jur. I would rather breed a plain "boring" brown rat with a fabulous temperament than the prettiest color with an iffy temperament or health. Try checking out:

http://northerncaliforniaratcommunity.com/ratteries.aspx
http://www.ratzrealm.com/id24_htm.htm
http://www.afrma.org/breederlist.htm

I'll also ask my breeder who she recommends in California.


----------



## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I'll still bet on mice as the wire-chewers. You can normally tell pretty clearly by the size of the poop they normally leave behind. If you set traps, let us know if you catch any rats or not. Actually, if the mechanic couldn't find any nests in the car (that's good news) - then the chewer may also be a squirrel.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

How much does it cost to spay a rat?

I wonder if they can use that new drug safely to majorly knock down rat populations, by using it to sterilize the females...


----------



## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

We had the bait stations in our utility room, and the problem was the mice would actually pull the packet of poison OUT of the locked bait station. I have been assured several times that a 50 lb dog could eat several packets or hundreds of poisoned mice without ill effect, but really, who wants to risk it? The baits aren't supposed to come out, but apparently the CT mice are clever and determined. 
Do mice respond to smells? I'm wondering if some dog hair mixed in with the dryer sheets would help?
Best of luck.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> How much does it cost to spay a rat?
> 
> I wonder if they can use that new drug safely to majorly knock down rat populations, by using it to sterilize the females...


I would probably charge about $30-40 to do it surgically for pet rats.


----------



## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

dog hair works pretty well mixed in or spread over garden areas, to keep out rabbits, and sometimes deer - but no doesn't work for mice/rats - they would appreciate the dog hair, nice and soft for use to build their nests and stay warmer and cozier LOL


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Jennifer 
ever heard of EDR's ?? 
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2010/03/bombsniffing-rats-save-lives-in-africa/


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

rick smith said:


> Jennifer
> ever heard of EDR's ??
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2010/03/bombsniffing-rats-save-lives-in-africa/



That was on the Nat Geo channel a few yrs back. Cool to watch. BIG suckers! Makes our Norway rats look like mice. 
There were a few pics of them in those pics posted above. Those, nutria and a few of the other "giant rats". NOT!


----------



## Betty Landercasper (Dec 2, 2010)

A National Geographic movie "Rat Genius" is an interesting view of this species. Photos of rats coming up toilets, yikes. 
I knew a farmer who purchased pet white rats and let them go. The offspring were easier for his cats to kill due to their color and tame disposition. In 6 months his problem was over, and he had a TON of rats.:roll:


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Betty Landercasper said:


> A National Geographic movie "Rat Genius" is an interesting view of this species. Photos of rats coming up toilets, yikes.
> I knew a farmer who purchased pet white rats and let them go. The offspring were easier for his cats to kill due to their color and tame disposition. In 6 months his problem was over, and he had a TON of rats.:roll:


Wow, sort of like what happened with killer bees but in reverse!


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Betty Landercasper said:


> A National Geographic movie "Rat Genius" is an interesting view of this species. Photos of rats coming up toilets, yikes.
> I knew a farmer who purchased pet white rats and let them go. The offspring were easier for his cats to kill due to their color and tame disposition. In 6 months his problem was over, and he had a TON of rats.:roll:



Suprised they survived. Survival instincts are next to none in lab rodents.
When I had snakes I avoided putting wild mice in the cages for feed. I quit doing that after they gave the snakes an ass whoopin. Lab mice would just walk up nose to nose and serve them selves for dinner. 
Putting wild mice in with lab mice was never a winning proposition for the lab mice.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Even with domesticated strains, the mice or rats can still injure or even kill a snake if they are not hungry. I always recommended pre-killed or frozen/thawed. More convenient that way too. I've known too many herp people that ended up with an unintentional pet mouse or rat because their snake wasn't in the mood to eat that day. My jungle carpet python has never missed a meal and pounds frozen/thawed rats (when she was still taking mice, she actually popped one, YUCK!!!), but there are some that are more picky.


----------



## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I had mice when I was in highschool, and a pet rat when I was in college - rats make the very best pets ever (at least of the small/caged pet variety).

When I had mice, I started breeding them "a little" and as you might guess pretty soon I had a lot of mice - not for sale for snake food and difficult to give away as pets. So I ended my mouse breeding program by keeping a couple pet females and bringing all of the rest to the barn where I boarded my horse. Released them, and for the next couple years saw plenty of interesting color variations in the wild mouse population in that barn. Friendly mice, too. The original pet ones seemed to survive ok as they would come out and seem to greet me - fearless - for the first year or so - anyway domesticated mice, seemed to do ok being released and surviving, breeding and creating a neat new spotted and different-colored wild mouse colony.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

...and that same practice is why we have 20 foot long Burmese pythons cruising the Everglades. :neutral:


----------



## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

you're right - but I was 15 years old, and I don't think the "hybrid" mice left that barn and created new bolder brighter mouse colonies that infected the suburbs of rural Chicago - or maybe they did.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> ...and that same practice is why we have 20 foot long Burmese pythons cruising the Everglades. :neutral:


and Asian carp and Snakeheads taking over our waterways...


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I can hardly put lab mice and exotic snakes and fish in the same category. 
The lab mice are nothing more then a color mutation/gene (for lack of a more educated word) of wild mice. 
The Pythons, Asian carp, snake heads, etc are introduced "foreign" species that have no natural place in our ecology.
White mice? They are mice, nothing, more nothing less.
Now if your talking about lab mice that have been genetically altered or have some sort of introduced disease that's another story but pet shop feeders/pets are just white mice.
Most species have a white or albino gene that occasionally pops up.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I can hardly put lab mice and exotic snakes and fish in the same category.
> The lab mice are nothing more then a color mutation/gene (for lack of a more educated word) of wild mice.
> The Pythons, Asian carp, snake heads, etc are introduced "foreign" species that have no natural place in our ecology.
> White mice? They are mice, nothing, more nothing less.
> ...


Except that house mice (Mus musculus) are not a native American species either. They, like their larger Norway rat (Rattus novegicus) cousins, traveled here on ships from Europe centuries ago. They believe the house mouse was originally from Asia. Just because they've been here longer than the Burmese python or the Asian carp doesn't mean they are any more desirable...


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Agreed but they are still an accepted, if not liked, part of our environmental system now. 
Actually they are "probably" a primary food source for many of our native species.
It would be interesting though to see/know what our world was like before mice and rats here.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Eh, I think the majority of scientists and others would disagree that house mice have ever been a desirable animal to have in our environment. They are very destructive and can spread disease in their bodily fluids. Other undesirables like fleas can also hitch a ride with them. I have the little critters move into my garage and house this time of year, so I always have the mouse traps ready...I've had to rodent proof all dog/cat food in rubbermaid bins because they'd get into the expensive food out in the garage and pee all over everything. Mice weigh about one tenth of the size of a rat, but they smell ten times as bad! As far as food for other critters, there are other native New World species that have filled that niche, such as the deer mouse and the vole, before the house mouse arrived.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Never said desirable. 
House mice didn't replace the Deer mice or the vole. Fact is the Deer mice and voles would survive in a house. with that in mind, did the house mouse create it's own niche? 
I know, it's still a pest that we don't need. My point was that adding a white mouse to the wild population wouldn't create any long term problems. 
It's a scientific fact that the albino deer, raccoons, snakes, etc have a horrible survival record. You should know that!


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Agreed but they are still an accepted,* if not liked*, part of our environmental system now.





> Never said desirable.
> House mice didn't replace the Deer mice or the vole. Fact is the Deer mice and voles would survive in a house. with that in mind, did the house mouse create it's own niche?
> I know, it's still a pest that we don't need. My point was that adding a white mouse to the wild population wouldn't create any long term problems.
> It's a scientific fact that the albino deer, raccoons, snakes, etc have a horrible survival record. You should know that!
> ...


Yeah, but you said liked.  I don't know anybody who likes house mice in their house or environment. Deer mice and voles are pretty uncommon in people's houses compared to house mice. My parents have a house in Omaha that used to be a new subdivision with a lot of undeveloped lots that used to be cornfield. They would see an occasional vole in the basement maybe two or three times a year. Now that it's developed and they have neighbors on all sides, they don't see them any more. You can tell a house mouse from a deer mouse because deer mice are two toned colored and a vole has a very short tail. I have yet to catch either species in my mouse traps. Lots of house mice though...invasive little bastards... :evil:

That was the whole point of my comment. Humans are really good at accidentally or on purpose introducing stuff that shouldn't be there in the first place. House mice, Norway rats, starlings, iguanas, nutria, Burmese python, zebra mussels, Asian carp, fire ants, killer bees are all invasive species brought here by us silly humans. And that's only in the US.


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Deer mice have no problem with living in houses - that's all we have out here.


----------



## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Susan,

I'm not sure if you want a joke, or a serious advice/suggestion to give.
One solution that might help to keep rats/mice stay away from your car is put a dozen of mothballs in a sock keep it in the hood. I haven't had a problem with mine being chewed up.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Yeah, but you said liked.  I don't know anybody who likes house mice in their house or environment. Deer mice and voles are pretty uncommon in people's houses compared to house mice. My parents have a house in Omaha that used to be a new subdivision with a lot of undeveloped lots that used to be cornfield. They would see an occasional vole in the basement maybe two or three times a year. Now that it's developed and they have neighbors on all sides, they don't see them any more. You can tell a house mouse from a deer mouse because deer mice are two toned colored and a vole has a very short tail. I have yet to catch either species in my mouse traps. Lots of house mice though...invasive little bastards... :evil:
> 
> That was the whole point of my comment. Humans are really good at accidentally or on purpose introducing stuff that shouldn't be there in the first place. House mice, Norway rats, starlings, iguanas, nutria, Burmese python, zebra mussels, Asian carp, fire ants, killer bees are all invasive species brought here by us silly humans. And that's only in the US.


Poor grammar on my part. I said NOT liked. Should have been UNliked! I'll give you that one. Your more eddycated then me.:lol:
I've seen deer mice at the bird feeder at my old house. Tan as opposed to brown and white belly and feet. Have voles in my garden. Trooper got one a few weeks ago. Same with a shrew although I wish he could discern the difference. I like the shrews. Good little garden predators. They kill mice also. :grin:
I STILL don't believe that there would be any consequences with a white mouse escaping into the wild. Do we want more mice? Of course not but it's still a mouse and not some exotic. 
I know, I know! They aren't native to our part of the world. :lol::wink:


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lindsay Janes said:


> Susan,
> 
> I'm not sure if you want a joke, or a serious advice/suggestion to give.
> One solution that might help to keep rats/mice stay away from your car is put a dozen of mothballs in a sock keep it in the hood. I haven't had a problem with mine being chewed up.


I seriously saw a Chicago rat juggling 4 mothballs in alley once


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I seriously saw a Chicago rat juggling 4 mothballs in alley once


Yea but put a fifth one in there and they aren't any better then a St. Louis rat.....except the St. Louis rat can play baseball better. :twisted: :-\"


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Poor grammar on my part. I said NOT liked. Should have been UNliked! I'll give you that one. Your more eddycated then me.:lol:
> I've seen deer mice at the bird feeder at my old house. Tan as opposed to brown and white belly and feet. Have voles in my garden. Trooper got one a few weeks ago. Same with a shrew although I wish he could discern the difference. I like the shrews. Good little garden predators. They kill mice also. :grin:
> I STILL don't believe that there would be any consequences with a white mouse escaping into the wild. Do we want more mice? Of course not but it's still a mouse and not some exotic.
> I know, I know! They aren't native to our part of the world. :lol::wink:


Yay, I scored a point! \\/ Just kidding, Bob, you know I love ya!

More my point was like "well, no harm in releasing my albino Burmese python that outgrew its enclosure and now needs small goats as prey items into the swamp. There's already plenty of them there already, so no big deal..." Erm...yeah, not a good idea! :-o


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Yay, I scored a point! \\/ Just kidding, Bob, you know I love ya!
> 
> More my point was like "well, no harm in releasing my albino Burmese python that outgrew its enclosure and now needs small goats as prey items into the swamp. There's already plenty of them there already, so no big deal..." Erm...yeah, not a good idea! :-o


I would agree that ANY python release in our environment can be a disaster....but not cute little white mice. :twisted: ;-)


----------



## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


> I seriously saw a Chicago rat juggling 4 mothballs in alley once


 Wow, that advice doesn't work!


----------

