# Ball dropper mechanisms for training vests ..



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Just wondering if anybody has used one? My dog is ball and tug crazy, so I have been phasing out food for reward now for a couple of months. 

I have a friend who is willing to sew me a new summer training vest and I'd like to incorporate a ball dropper into it. Like this .. http://joefarm.be.dotnet15.hostbasket.com/shopenglish/index.html

What I've been doing is keeping my small recall tug in the back pocket of my current vest then whipping it out when I want to reward her with it. I still do food out of a different pocket, but she now seems to be anticipating stuff from my body language re: getting rewards. It would be nice to be able to reward without excessive body language to keep her on her toes.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Personally, I'd say save your money. I forget, Geoff, are you marker training? If you are, practice saying your marker word or clicking, pausing for a second, and then reaching for your reward, be it food or toy. Bob Scott's club TD calls it being trigger happy by doing the marker word or clicking while you are reaching. The dog cues more in on the hand movement of you reaching for your bait pouch or the tug (or the crazy gizmo to drop the ball out of the vest) rather than the marker word or clicker. When you first start conditioning your dog to the marker, by all means, treat or whatever right after the click or marker word when you first start, but then incorporate a teeny bit of a pause. The dog will understand that the picture you wanted was correct and the reward is coming very soon.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I have the Euro Joe ball dropper vest, and I really like it, it's very light weight and has marvelous huge pockets and the ball drop thingie is attached with velcro so you can attach it to various areas front and back. To tell you the truth, most of the time I don't even have the ball drop pocket attached. I keep the tug hidden under my arm, etc.. Anyway, when I use the pocket thingy it's great, but of course dogs are so good at reading us even with the hidden wire you have to be vigilant about any movement clues. The ball dropper vest is tried and true and has been around for ages, it's not considered a gimmick, but of course is not for everyone, just as every method is not for everyone or every dog.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I forget, Geoff, are you marker training? If you are, practice saying your marker word or clicking, pausing for a second, and then reaching for your reward, be it food or toy. Bob Scott's club TD calls it being trigger happy by doing the marker word or clicking while you are reaching. The dog cues more in on the hand movement of you reaching for your bait pouch or the tug (or the crazy gizmo to drop the ball out of the vest) rather than the marker word or clicker. When you first start conditioning your dog to the marker, by all means, treat or whatever right after the click or marker word when you first start, but then incorporate a teeny bit of a pause. The dog will understand that the picture you wanted was correct and the reward is coming very soon.


Yes Maren we've been marker training for a long while. I train specific exercises in steps using a clicker or a hearty "yes" and when she is on the right track I use the transistion word "good". 

I just notice that she zeros in on the reward and was thinking of the ball dropper as another place to mix in rewards from. I'll spit pieces of cheese or hotdog at her, or treat her from either hand as well as the tug in my back pocket or under my arm. She is just wise to it all and I do wait after the marker to get a reward. Sometimes I just mark it and move into the next exercise without a reward and reward on the next round it all depends. 

I just thought that having the remote operated ball dropper would lessen the fixation she has on my hands and mouth if I remove my hands and mouth from the pez dispenser equation.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

It does, I think that's the reason the belgian boys came up with it.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Teach correct eye contact. focus on the eyes instead of looking for hand movement. We do this for everything from basic postion to obedience for a bite.
The timing of mark and reward is critical. As Maren said, if your reaching for the reward before or during the marker being given, the motion of the hand will null and void the actual marker word/clicker. Trigger happy or gun slinging.
Sounds like your dog is looking for those movements instead of the mark.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thats a very good point. With my dogs, I teach "fus" means correct position AND focusing on my eyes at the same time. I proof it in foundation work with slight leash corrections if the dog stops looking at my eyes, and reward with voice and either showing the ball or dropping jute roll from under my arm. This way results in my dog always focused and working in drive for the entire length of time I heel . No matter what method you use, timing is everything.


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