# TOP GSD PPD/K-9 Breeders



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Which breeder(s) do you consider to produce the very best GSD PPD/K-9 dogs and why? Please don't give me a Schutzhund breeder unless that breeder also breeds bona-fide PPD/K-9 dogs. Thank you.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Patrick, most every top breeding kennel in the GSD world competes in Schutzhund. Even the top czech and slovak one title in the Zvv OR ipo. PPD or K-9 doesn't always mean a really sound or strong dog.

Though I really like what Vt Huekske Kennels has done the last several years, most all KNPV titles. I have a female out of Kacy Vt Heukske that is absolutely awesome in many ways, Schutzhund 3 almost and is also a service dog for a handicapped person with a walker. She is also as real as a heart attack.

Bryan


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Bryan, I know many of them breed for both. I'm just trying to avoid breeders who breed only for Schutzhund. Thanks for the feedback.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Baden K-9 has got to be somewhere towards the top of this list. 




Andy.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Patricks current dog is from Baden K9, I'm sure he is aware of them.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

adlerstein for one


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ok, I'm gonna really stir up some $#!+ here mainly based on my lack of expierience with PPDs. BUT, In my observation, the "average" PPD is a nerve bag with a huge, impressive: (to the "average" person) threat display. There are some good ones, maybe some great ones out there. Just not on "average". Most, again JMHO, would be rejected from doing any PSD work because of nerve problems.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

in addition to adlerstein, www.carmspack.com up in CD. but these recomendations are based purely on the kennels' breeding programs and where they tend to place their pups/dogs. there's another kennel up in CD whose owner is a K-9 officer (was in a bad wreck this past summer as a matter of fact, but both she and her K-9 survived)--i'll have to find that one for you.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Suzanne Eviston is the LEO who was in the wreck. She's in the state of Washington. She imports & breeds: http://www.vongrunheideshepherds.com/in_the_line_of_duty.htm


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

now why did i think she was in CD? oh well, CRS strikes once AGAIN!!!! thanks susan--that's exactly who i was trying to come up with


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Ok, I'm gonna really stir up some $#!+ here mainly based on my lack of expierience with PPDs. BUT, In my observation, the "average" PPD is a nerve bag with a huge, impressive: (to the "average" person) threat display. There are some good ones, maybe some great ones out there. Just not on "average". Most, again JMHO, would be rejected from doing any PSD work because of nerve problems.


Bob, that's because the ones you've seen were originally sport dogs that didn't do so well and the owner/breeder "re-packaged" them as "PPD" dogs and sold them. They do it all the time.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I think you'll be missing out on a lot of good dogs if you ignore the ones who breed for sport dogs...you pretty much have to look at it on a case by case basis. Look at the pedigree and more importantly, the particular dogs, and from my experience there are breeders who breed for "sport" but are aware of the requirements of someone looking for something more, and can steer you in the right direction. Just watch what they're saying...if they say something general like "All my dogs can do everything..." well, you know.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

You mean like how Baden claims all their puppies are great PPD material? And how none of their DUTCH Shepherds come from import lines? And how they don't breed sport lines, but the pedigrees for their dogs show the same Sch titles that every other breeders pedigree shows? hmmm. And here I was thinking they weren't full of crap.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Too many people use the word "sport" to make it seem like those dogs are never going to bite them. But I have yet to meet one who would prove this.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Just dug up an old email from Baden......



> Our dogs are very capable and healthy.We do not have any sport or show blood in our dogs. The best thing to do is to see as many dogs as possible and their breeders. You can make an honest judgement in this way. I do believe the dogs in europe are of very poor quality and have seen many in my life.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Lyn Chen said:


> I think you'll be missing out on a lot of good dogs if you ignore the ones who breed for sport dogs...you pretty much have to look at it on a case by case basis. Look at the pedigree and more importantly, the particular dogs, and from my experience there are breeders who breed for "sport" but are aware of the requirements of someone looking for something more, and can steer you in the right direction. Just watch what they're saying...if they say something general like "All my dogs can do everything..." well, you know.


I think that's good advice Lyn. I should clarify my post. I'm ok with "sport" dogs per se as long as they can do the real deal too. What I want to TRY to avoid are breeders that are only focused on Schutzhund without any evidence to suggest their dogs can and do more serious types of work.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> You mean like how Baden claims all their puppies are great PPD material? And how none of their DUTCH Shepherds come from import lines? And how they don't breed sport lines, but the pedigrees for their dogs show the same Sch titles that every other breeders pedigree shows? hmmm. And here I was thinking they weren't full of crap.


Based on the fact that I'm looking for other breeders should speak volumes about what I think about Baden K-9. My dog is awesome and I wish I could clone him. I got lucky. I know some people that weren't so lucky. 

As for Baden's operation, they could tell me what they had for breakfast and I'd be skeptical as to the truthfulness of their statement based on my experience with them. They do have a rotten reputation in this industry, but it's one they've perpetuated onto themselves. I will NEVER buy another dog from them and I would encourage others to pass on Baden K-9.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Ann and Susan, thanks for the recommendations. 

If any of you can recommend some other really good breeders of working GSD's please share them here.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

There is a lot of information that is good here. Bob makes some points too about PPD in general.

There is a serious lack of prestige in training these animals. So quite frankly the best decoys and trainers are found in sport. There is a true showcase for your hard work and talent. More importantly, the second part of the equation for the trainer is the dog team. Generally speaking, those who want to acheive success in sport, invest alot of time into their dogs, care, and work hard to acheive common goals with the trainer.

Some folks simply interested in having a biting dog, aren't always of the purest ethics or morals. This is problematic for the trainer. Because with such a dog comes much responsibility and liability for those involved in the training of such a dog.

The most effective dogs I have trained for PPD, are those have no fight drive at all. High self defense. You can easily teach to respond to a threat with growling, barking and teeth baring. Plus they are normally very easily friendly.

I wouldn't trust most average dog people with a dog I would finish in man work. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

One other very good high quality GSD person is Julia Preist, of Von Sonthausen kennel in California. But, I will promise you this, she will not be interested in her dogs going into strickly PPD homes. I have had and trained a few of her dogs and all ended up being Police Quality bite work dogs.

Bryan


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Fair and good poins Bryan; thanks for the continued feedback. 

Bob's point was a fair one; but so was mine. Like I said, I have seen a handful of known, respected sport dog breeders take their weakest dogs from a litter, call them "family companion-protection dogs" and list them on their web page, etc. for sale. 

If these same breeders were putting their best dogs with the best families then we all might have a different perspective. Calling a dog a "sport" or "PPD" doesn't change what it is or isn't capable of doing. From my perspective the very top of the line dog should not only be able to exceed at dog sports but should also far surpass most sport dogs when it comes to real-world PPD type stuff. Iis it possible tha there are some truly great PPD's tha don't get any recognition because their handlers aren't taking them to sporting events, etc. 

For the record I have NO problem with sport and in fact my dog has competed in ASR and I would like to get him into APPDA,, just as soon as Jerry and the boys get off their rears and get it going.  Just kidding Jerry. 

We sort of got off track here and that's ok with me (for what that's worth) as this is all good discussion. But, again, I'm looking for really good GSD breeders that can and do produce outstanding working dogs suitable for a family environment but that are also ready to rock and roll if need be. 

Thanks again all!


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

call them "family companion-protection dogs" and list them on their web page, etc. for sale. 


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well you see my point here is, to have a dog reliable and safe with your family, is one thing. To have a dog that is a knock em out drag em out fight dog is another. The mix the two is tough on many levels. I think you know what I mean here. The likely hood of a dominant dog not liking certain things that children and other family members he doesn't do is very real.

I really believe you are thinking of two types of dogs. On rare occassions there are those great dogs, ever vigil, strong, secure and serious, but affectionate with children and know they are never a threat. But, you would pay big dollars if I had a dog like that. They are hard to come bye and expensive.

I do see what you are saying about Brokers or breeders listing PPD as like a fall back position to sport or Police. But honestly, suspicous dogs or sharp dogs make the best PPD dogs. Not ideal sport or sometimes Police. 

What I tell folks when they really want a powerful dog for the family and true protector. They need to buy a dog I would train for Police Work. 

Patrick are you currently looking for a puppy or a dog?

Bryan


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I think some breeders differentiate between "family protection" and "PPD"...family protection as I understand it is a dog that can be an effective deterrant against burglaries and the like, because of its appearance and bark, and is pretty much just a pet. A PPD as the term implies needs a bit more than that.

I know a lot of sport handlers with really good dogs just aren't interested in the PPD aspect. They don't see the purpose of having one other than a bloated ego, and I sort of see their POV. Unfortunately for those of us who DO need one, kind of puts us in a bad position.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Bryan Colletti said:


> One other very good high quality GSD person is Julia Preist, of Von Sonthausen kennel in California. But, I will promise you this, she will not be interested in her dogs going into strickly PPD homes. I have had and trained a few of her dogs and all ended up being Police Quality bite work dogs.
> 
> Bryan


http://www.sontausen.allk-9.com/


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Bryan,

I'm looking for a female gsd. I don't want her to have any issues with my older GSD and PPD, Jake, otherwise I would have probably gotten another male. I also want a pup so that I can mold it and shape it from day one. My wife and I have a four year-old son and so we're a little leary about bringing in a strange dog; maybe we shouldn't be. I know with a pup it's a crap shoot and that's why I want to find the best breeders that I can locate so as to increase the chances that our dog will be able to do the job. Hey, it's not like we live in the hood and need dogs and guns and so forth, but I want a dog that can be more than a freaking pet and that will defend and attack on command and, incidentally, I will compete her in APPDA, hopefully.  

The end product I want is a stable, friendly, confident dog that, to be blunt, won't take any shit from anybody she doesn't have to. Does that make sense? I want to find the breeder(s) who can give me that dog. This dog is going to be in our family for well over ten years and I want to get the best dog we can find. Once we get the pup we'll train and nurture it and hope for the best and accept the dog for whatever it is, barring it being a nutcase, which is also always possible. 

I appreciate everybody's help here.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

I would suggest you give Julia a check. Tim listed her site above. She will be Breeding Remy soon. Remy is a female I imported from Vt Huekske Kennels in Holland at 8 weeks old. Julia took her after four weeks here with the kids and has trained her to be an amazing dog to her genetic potential quite frankly. She is stable enough to be a service dog in cafes picking up car keys and bracing and balancing her owner, and is powerful on a Schutzhund field. Decoy's love her.

Good luck,
Bryan


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks Bryan and thanks Tim for the link. I'll definitely check her out.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Patrick, we are off our butts and the first week end in Nov. is the mock trail for the PSD. You know that we already did the mock trial for PPD.

You've seen my dog Bentley. He is what you are looking for but love nor money or the combination of the two could ever get him from me. His temperment is what I breed for. My female, Lexus which you haven't seen is just like him. I did a breeding with the two that I told you about but to no success. I will breed them again. I WILL keep a pup out of this breeding because I want what you are looking for. I agree with Bryan that this dog that is hell bent on protection and loves to just lay there to let the grandchildren poke his eyes out, pull his tail and the like, is a dog that is hard to find. That is the main reson I breed the way I do. Period.

Hope to see you in Nov.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Jerry, thanks for the feedback. Bentley is definitely a dream dog. I'll check back with you on that prospective breeding. Maybe you'll be willing to pass one of those pups my way. 

I'd like to make in November but it will be tough. I definitely want to come up there and see you guys.


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

pat call matt hammond, Keith earle


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