# lack of commitment in the bite



## Brandon Hamraz (Dec 20, 2013)

Wondering how to fix her commitment issue in the bite. In first video is the beginning of session, we're using soft wedge with light bungee. Second is hard wedge with heavy bungee 4 mins later. 

http://www.dropshots.com/Hamrazbb/date/2016-03-31/18:17:38

http://www.dropshots.com/Hamrazbb/date/2016-03-31/18:21:18


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

No video found!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

More controlled/harmonious line handling throughout the entire exercise. 

One other thing, it's important. When you watch these videos of your dog working do you get the impression that she's in control, gaining confidence from her interactions with the helper or do you see something else taking place? If so, what? You don't need to post your answer here but I suspect if you look at the "problem" differently rather than say from the vantage point of the finish line, you might have your answer.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

it appears like you posted these clips to some site (dropshots?)
MAJOR problems with the clips loading and showing on my Mac ](*,)

would not want to comment/critique based on the 5-6 secs they played

in the meanwhile, as was suggested, why not start a thread and provide some details of what you are doing and seeing .... with you, helper and your dog rather than assume it is lack of commitment ?

it's your dog and you are the handler in these clips ?


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Are you training with a club?From what i can see in the short clip,too much too soon.The dog does not look ready for this,keep the dog close on a leash and help the dog.Develop a bite first!!!!!
Decoy should avoid eye contact for now.Almost looks like the dog is afraid of a correction when the bungee gets tight.
Why do you keep sending the dog after she fails to bite the first time?Are you training for French ring?
How old is the dog and how much bite work has she done?
Why use a bungee at this stage?
Go back to basics and give the dog a chance to learn how to bite.
Too much too soon.
How much experience do you have as a handler?
I know ,a lot of questions but some more info is needed before people here can help you.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Yeah I would go with Jack suggestions, too much too soon for this dog, the reason the dog bounced off is because she is scared and has no confident, so when a dog is like this, you don't want to send the dog on a line, keep her tight and the decoy should try to build up the drive to bite, make her miss a few times and give her a bite with your body turns side way and not square up on her like that. Better yet tie a line to that wedge, as soon as she bites it go to the end of the line and play tug.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

now i could see them

i agree with "too much too soon" 
BUT..... if the technique of handler/helper is off, the dog prob won't do what you both are expecting it to do
- the way you made this title seems like you might think the handler/helper are correct and the dog is lacking in commitment
- hope you are open to other explanations

also hope you answer the Q's and start a discussion
- my only other question is why you chose to show these two clips; what is their connection that you are trying to point out ?


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## Brandon Hamraz (Dec 20, 2013)

I have been doing IPO for three years and my Mal is 11 months I'm part of the club and had my thoughts about it being too soon. I have talked to a friend of mine who believes that I should make real aggression with her before going into bungee work. As some of you have said too soon I somewhat agree but not having many people to ask about it in my area I have to rely on that of my training director. When my friend says real aggression what are good activities to do in order to achieve that as I've said before I am very much a novice to this sport


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## Brandon Hamraz (Dec 20, 2013)

http://www.dropshots.com/Hamrazbb/date/2016-03-31/18:21:18

Here is another video from a a month before we have done a lot of prey and drive building. I also should have said the first two videos she was in her first heat which in retrospect was probably not a good example.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Oh well I take it back, if she is 11 months old and still biting like this then there are only 2 reasons, she is not cut out for this kind of work or they messed up along the way, I lean toward her not cutting out for bite work. Doing real aggression could brake her for good at 11 months old and especially when she is already nervous like this.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Brandon Hamraz said:


> I have talked to a friend of mine who believes that I should make real aggression with her before going into bungee work. *When my friend says real aggression what are good activities to do in order to achieve that* as I've said before I am very much a novice to this sport


 IMO this is a terrible solution. I responded recently to something unrelated, saying that if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the answer given. By this I only mean, that sometimes well intended individuals can be talked into doing bad things, which they don't understand the consequences of if things don't work out well.

Please understand, I am only commenting on what you asked about. I will refrain from offering comment or opinions on your dog specifically.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Real aggression on many 11 month old dogs, even some strong dogs can easily mess them up. 

Quite possibly a maturity issue but I see a red flag when a "trainer" suggests this.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

why do you think pulling the dog up on its back feet builds commitment in the bite ?
- please be specific with your answer


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I agree with everything people have said here except I think if you went back some steps and put her on a solid line get a better decoy or get your decoy better then build confidence by supporting your pup, not just sending it on a bungee at some geezer with a wedge you could turn it around. Forget the real aggression "advice" get the dogs bite strong then back the decoy up WITH her. Dog lacks confidence in what she is doing and is probably a bit more than a little confused. Make it clear that when she is biting the wedge this is what she is meant to be doing and that you are a team who are gonna take on this decoy and smash him.

Definitely to much too soon.
Just my opinion having not met the dog.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

rick smith said:


> why do you think pulling the dog up on its back feet builds commitment in the bite ?
> - please be specific with your answer



I couldn't view the video but holding the dog back can build frustration for the bite with many dogs. 

Again, I can't view the video so my "guess" could be way off.


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## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> I agree with everything people have said here except I think if you went back some steps and put her on a solid line get a better decoy or get your decoy better then build confidence by supporting your pup, not just sending it on a bungee at some geezer with a wedge you could turn it around. Forget the real aggression "advice" get the dogs bite strong then back the decoy up WITH her. Dog lacks confidence in what she is doing and is probably a bit more than a little confused. Make it clear that when she is biting the wedge this is what she is meant to be doing and that you are a team who are gonna take on this decoy and smash him.
> 
> Definitely to much too soon.
> Just my opinion having not met the dog.


I agree with this mostly but it also may be that the dog just doesn't have what it takes to do the work. At this age, the decoy work should not just be "defense" or "prey". The object is to get the dog switching between drives but of course that takes a helper that can read the dog not just someone that has the moves.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Yeah but I won't say that as I have no idea what the dog has done before this vid or met the dog, or what the relationship is between the dog and the two people in the vid. I have had issues similar to this with my dogs in the past if I decoy and someone else handles the dog or the dog is on a tie back. It is mostly conflict created by myself. Get someone else to decoy and they straighten out again. I have a weird ability to pressure a dog without actually doing anything, lol, or not within my knowledge anyway, dog obviously knows what I am doing.


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## Brandon Hamraz (Dec 20, 2013)

I have since the video figured out what I need to do and have had great results. One she has gone out of heat, two change decoys and took her off the bungee. We have been doing a lot of blind search bark and hold and escapes. She is hammering and griping full on a trial sleeve.She has been super confidant, and she even took my helper down on a escape today. We have really been working basics and it seem to have made all the difference. That video was three weeks ago and it almost like she's a different dog thanks for all the feedback and advice.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Awesome! good work dude!


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