# Dutch Shepherd health issues



## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

I have a friend who might get a Dutch pup tomorrow. He is about four months old and was brought to our club last weekend. He was tried out on the bite work and members were liking his confidence in chasing/carrying the rag.

The person who owns the pup says his pups lines are from U.S. Dutch Shepherds. Which he says are very few and far between. He says, they are separate from the "Dutchies in color only" that have more Malinois type bood that are more common. (I don't think he was really trying to be arrogant, but...). I don't know anything about Dutchies obviously and neather do our other club members. What does my friend need to know before purchasing? Are there any big health concerns with the breed?

It's a weird situation because this pup has been passed around. He was going to be used for breeding if he turned out at all well, but the breeder who had him dabbles in more than one breed and changed her plans. Now, she still wants some control because she wants some of the pups in a future litter he could sire culled. I'm not liking that. But he has now been sold back to the original guy (Not the culling lady) who may sell to my friend.

Advice on anything please. Especially health and lines. My friend won't take the pup without trying him out at home first. She is very dedicated to IPO, but new to the sport.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Gina, I'll respond to this post and I remember I need to go back and respond to your other questions… maybe that was leading up to questions about this situation?

I don't personally know anything about any (presumably AKC) Dutch Shepherds. I am not familiar with any health issues or don't recall any known to those exclusively off AKC lines. My advice would be to try and get as much info that can be obtained on the parents, if they have been bred previously, research every dog you can find. Do the same with the siblings of the parents. 

I'm often as interested, if not more, in the grandparents.

Would this pup come with a health guarantee/contract?


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Nicole, thank you for reminding me about what you listed. I hope she can get a guarantee. She is only paying $600. I guess that is the price he has been while being passed around amongst friends. Glad you haven't heard of health problems that stand out. Take your time with my other questions. Thanks!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Gina, was I correct about how I thought I was reading what this pup is? AKC Dutch Shepherd? Have there been any health tests or titles obtained on the parents? I'm mostly curious just to know what the breeder has actually invested into this breeding endeavor.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

I believe he is an AKC Dutch Shepherd. I will find out tomorrow as much as I can. Thanks


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

i guess things have changed. last i knew, the AKC didn't recognize the dutch shepherd as a breed (while FCI does).

if you knew the lines perhaps i could be of assistance. just saying "american dutch shepherd" means little.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I'd trust your response better than my own. I couldn't relate to what else they might be talking about.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I would be very wary about being involved in a pup purchase where the breeder retains rights to future litters, unless it was a breeder I truly respected and trusted. One who dabbles in a few breeds does not come under that category. Too messy, too much potential for future drama. Is she planning to breed him? 

If she likes the pup, and he is a nice pup, then she can decide if $600 is what he is worth to her. 

What does your club TD think of the pup? Is this a dog they want to work with? Do they think he has potential? What are her handling skills? 

My Dutch is very different from how Nicole describes her dog. She is easy to live with, a bit handler sensitive, drivey, fun, and bites good. I've met a range of DS personalities - from spooks to serious dogs.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i think you should encourage your friend to join the WDF and not relay for her...it's pretty easy to join 

we need new members especially if they are in a working club


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I concur with Rick, I seem to do that more and more these days


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Thanks everybody for the input. She brought him home today. I didn't get too much info. He can be registered AKC miscellaneous class. No health contract, but no strings attached for his papers or breeding rights. I asked about health checks. The breeder did none. Disappointing, but I feel she thought the pup was still worth it which I can see in her case. The sire had hips and other tests on him and far down his line as per the breeder. He had printed out a pedigree, but I left them to look and just listened. KNPV lines I heard. The dam had some famous dog from Mexico in her lines. So anyway, not telling you much, I know. Lots of French Ring titles on both sides. 

So the club members liked him. The only negative comment was he didn't bark during bite work yet, but they weren't too concerned. She hasn't paid yet, but I'm sure it's a done deal. I'm happy for her because she has been working her 8 year old lab in our IPO club and some sort of a Shepinois rescue that is mostly defensive. She has worked hard with those two dogs though and the lab actually bites hard. The mal mix has come along, but like my Shepinois, the lack of prey drive is really a bummer. Don't know if she'd be into WED, but I can ask. Thanks again!


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

I meant WDF.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

No Leslie she is not planning on breeding him. The father of the pup is described as kind of a jerk (I'm not sure exactly what that means, but clearly not for a beginning handler). The pup has drive and seems to roll with all the traveling and owner switching he has had. I think the breeder gave my friend a dog that will be what she can handle. He already focuses on her nicely.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

would be interested to see the pedigree.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Tim Martens said:


> would be interested to see the pedigree.


I would too.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Ok. Think I can do that. Will see them Sunday.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

if it's either/or Gina, i'd rather see the pup 

you weren't here, but we had a jerkoff from OZ that knew every KNPV line in the world and could discuss them with some very knowledgeable KNPV members here. finally got his potential beast and a woody....and bailed :-(

maybe the pup is a potential beast of a stud on paper, but it would be more cool and informative for me to watch him progress via some clips rather than just know 'who he's outa', etc
- i'm assuming he will be in your club ?
- and 5 min to join and 5 min a week is a piece of cake to get here and spoon feed us some eye candy every week ;-)


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Get a Mal or GSD for IPO... the DSs talents lie elsewhere in the working dog realm. Best of luck whichever way you roll!


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Hmm...How do you characterise them as fitting another sport better? Thanks


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Gina Mezin said:


> Hmm...How do you characterise them as fitting another sport better? Thanks



I didnt say anything about sport ... I said their "talents" .... we use them for LE and MWDs and they excel in that role. When in Rome .... do as the Romans do ... go look at the last 10 years IPO trial results... you wont find those numbers dominated by the DS. I currently have 8 of them here in training and our personal dogs are DSs ....so I know about them.... if I were going to do IPO Id get a mal or a GSD... JMO! Can a DS do IPO? Sure .... a dirt track car can run around a nascar track but can he stay with a nascar in a race? Best of luck with your dog!


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