# Black and Tan Coonhound & Blue Tick Coonhound



## Jason Berthelette (Jan 8, 2011)

Does anyone have any experience, or know anyone who has experience, trailing with either the Black and Tan Coonhound or the Blue Tick coonhound? ANy input good, bad or indifferent, is appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

I've had a few for **** hunting, blueticks that is. Maybe I can answer some of your questions.


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## Jason Berthelette (Jan 8, 2011)

Just wondering about good breeders to look into, level of drive found to be better (or worse) in certain blood lines, if it has been found that UKC or AKC seem to work better. I understand a lot of these things have to do with each individual dog, but I am taking into account that breeding and having the right lineage plays a large role in the working dog. Thanks


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jason Berthelette said:


> Just wondering about good breeders to look into, level of drive found to be better (or worse) in certain blood lines, if it has been found that UKC or AKC seem to work better. I understand a lot of these things have to do with each individual dog, but I am taking into account that breeding and having the right lineage plays a large role in the working dog. Thanks



UKC has a long history of trialing hounds. AKC has none!


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

my advice would be to look into a bloodhound. Its been my experience with hunting dogs that unless they are after game, they can get pretty timid. It would be a shame to put all that effort into a dog for it not to work out. The good side of it is that you should not pay more than 300 on any bluetick and not more than 500-600 on a black and tan! And yes ukc not akc!


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Are you thinking trailing and not tracking? Because most hounds are abysmal trackers. They are natural trailers. I know a few people who have used "game" hounds as human trailers. Don't know about their bloodlines at all. What I have been told is that for most game hounds they are so naturally game oriented that its more of a struggle to keep them human oriented only. But I have only been told this and never experienced it myself. I use bloodhounds myself. I like using a dog that has been bred more traditionally for human scent. I also like a quiet dog on trail and game hounds are frequently not as quiet. Although I have knows some bloodhounds that are loud!.
I am sure there are lines of "game" hounds that are successful but sorry I dont know any.


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## Jason Berthelette (Jan 8, 2011)

Mr. Wilks: I do train with several bloodhounds now. It is those handlers and thier partners who have gotten me into trailing and able to see that it is a more aplicable type of man-hunting, particularly for a more urban law enforcement agency. I have been thinking about a bloodhound and it is one of the 2 top breeds I am reaearching; the black and tan is the other. I appreciate all the advice. Thank you. 

Mr. Boschwitz: All of my K9 trainig and work up until last year has been in the traditional police K9 tracking. Over the course of time, I am learning that trailing may be the more applicable type of man hunting and the beauty of it is that it can be done with the "traditional" police work breeds. I am looking into a hound for trailing only. I have stopped the tracking (schutzhund style) and will not train another dog in that style again, unless my department decideds to order me to that is haha. Could you put me in touch wth those handlers that you mentioned you know who have used the black and tan for man trailing? I would like to speak with them and get their input. Thanks in advance.


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Unfortunately I dont know any game hound handlers personally. Met a few at seminars. I wasnt particularly impressed with any of their dogs. They were all SAR handlers, not LE, and I dont think any were in it for the long haul, so to speak. 

I use my bloodhounds for LE when my department thinks to call ( change comes slowly). Good luck with yours!

MS. Boschwitz ( lol)


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't but wonder if anyone has done much with Plott Hounds in this capacity?


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Saw a Plott hound at a seminar once. Unfortunately the handler wasnt real committed so never got to see it at its full potential. Seemed like a fairly solid working dog.


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## Jason Berthelette (Jan 8, 2011)

Thank you for your help Ms. Boschwitz. I apologize for the inapprpriate title, no offense intended. If you do hear of any handlers please, forward them my user name and have them contact me. Thanks in advance.


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

Jason, I don't know if would be any help, but as mentioned the UKC is very involved in the hounds, it is a whole separate department of the registry and they hold nite hunts and so on. Although I am not aware of anyone that uses the dogs for the purpose you describe, it may be worthwile to go to the forum connected with the main UKC website. http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4 . There is a lot of discussion about bloodlines and so on there. If you post your query there you might find someone who knows someone. Best of luck in your search!


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## Jason Berthelette (Jan 8, 2011)

Thank you for the reference. I will look into it.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

mods--help!! who is our forum member who runs hounds in OK to track penitentiry (sp?) escapees??

jason,in case one of the mods doesn't see this look in the LE forum fr threads. meanwhile, i'll see if i can find one and link it for you. this man knows his trailing hounds.

terry holstine.here's a link to his post history: http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/search.php?searchid=1730969.


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Jason, I have been running hounds for hogs,cats,****,deer etc for going on fifty yrs. I started using hounds to track men for the Okla. Highway Patrol about eight yrs ago. What is it you want to know. I have written enough on this site and Leerburg to fill a decent sized book. Do a search on my name, most of the folks on here probably wouldnt relish the idea of me rehashing all the info.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

On the contrary Terry! Your experiences are always worth reading.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> On the contrary Terry! Your experiences are always worth reading.


WORD. Terry, in case you didn't know that means I agree. ;-)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> On the contrary Terry! Your experiences are always worth reading.


I certainly agree. Your expertise is certainly welcome. Rehash all you care too, I know I enjoy it. 

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Terry Holstine said:


> Jason, I have been running hounds for hogs,cats,****,deer etc for going on fifty yrs. I started using hounds to track men for the Okla. Highway Patrol about eight yrs ago. What is it you want to know. I have written enough on this site and Leerburg to fill a decent sized book. Do a search on my name, most of the folks on here probably wouldnt relish the idea of me rehashing all the info.


Here, as on Leerburg, I know many people (including me) who welcome seeing your name!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i concur ("cur" haha) with all the above! terry, compile your tales, write a book and i'll buy it. promise. meanwhile, keep sharing--been too long since we've heard a good OK training/trailing story (and you'll have time now 'cause it's too cold for the buggers to run, lol).


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Ok, here ya go, it seems Mr. Self returned home from work and was greeted by an individual in the process of stealing his property. When the bad guy saw Mr. Self turn in the driveway he jumped in the truck and shagged. Mr. Self gave chase East on SH 43 to the Indian Nations Turnpike. An OHP Trooper got involved in the chase that ended at MM46 when the bad guy ran off the roadway. Two suspects exited the vehicle and a short foot pursuit ensued ending with a female subject in custody and a male subject jumping the fence and entering a wooded area that was very remote. It was 26 miles South to Antlers Ok, 20 miles North to Mcalester. If he went East it was about 40 miles to Clayton, there was a littlle community about 3 mi. West called Pittsburg. 

I got the call to track this individual, we arrived on scene about 1.5 hrs after he hit the ground. The temp. was around 90 deg. The intel unit had gotten with Mr self and determined there were two firearms missining from the residence. One was .223 rifle and the other was a handgun. The Trooper was fairly certian the suspect didnt have the rifle with him as he went over the fence.

We shut the TP down and unloaded the dogs, there is a tall web wire fence bordering the roadway so we cut the fence and dragged the dogs on the East side to the point the Trooper had observed him going over. Ole Spot started cranking his tail, bawled and the chase was on. We took him about a half mile East, made a circle and came back to the roadway crossing to the West side about a quarter South of the bailout point. We had shut the roadway down again so when we crossed the was a long line of traffic. The trail went right under a semi trailer, out the other side, across a mown area and into the woods on the West side. I cut the fence again and headed in the direction of the hounds. They were really driving him and I was getting behind. I came up on a rock bluff that that was about thirty ft. just about straight off. I didnt see any way around it and the hounds were growing faint. There was a little crevise going off that afforded what I thought was enough footing to get by, Sally set down on her ass and started skidding down the slope. By the time all the commotion was over I could not hear the dogs anymore and I realized my partner Trooper Jamey Miller was no longer with me, I could not raise him on the radio.

The dogs were GONE, I fished the Astro out of my vest and it showed they were 3/4 of a mile west of me still running hard. It was pretty good going after I got off the cliff so we headed West in a hard run. After running a ways I pulled up to check the Astro again, when I stopped I could hear the dogs bayed about 300 yds to my South. I loped to about 100 yds of their location and dismounted. The dogs were bayed in a hole of water and the bad guy was standing out in the creek about waist deep. About this time I could hear Jamey trying to contact me on the radio and the aircraft was over-head. Jamey showed up in a few minutes and we caught the dogs, cuffed the bad guy and headed to the nearest rd about a mile West. On the way the bad guy fell over and thought he was going to pass out. He had about had it so I told Jamey " looks like were going to have to let him ride on of our mounts and since mine(Sally) wont tolerate it he would have to let Stupid ride his. He gave me a dirty look and dismounted. I have a photo Jamey took on his cell phone of me on Sally, the badguy on Grumpy and the hounds following. Jamey took the photo to document how rude I was letting the bad guy rie while he had to walk.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Awesome and hilarious. You need to write a book for sure.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

what--sally wouldn't let him ride double?? (ol' witch). or his grumpy either?? maybe train a donkey to follow along to transport suspects. (i might have just had a brilliant idea!!). i want to see the picture


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Jennifer, about that link, surely you are not suggesting that this old hillbilly start messing around with sophisticated technology like that. How about somebody give me an E-mail address and I will attempt to pull it out of my puter and see if I can attach it in an E-mail thats more in the range of my pay grade. Then a more sophisticaed individual can post it if they like. Hmmm. I better check with legal and make sure Im not going to get sued for posting his mug on the internet. It dont show his face, just his back.


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Ann, Sally will do a lot of things for me, riding double aint one of them. These mules are cantankerous. We were on a manhunt one time and was dragging for a track, we came up to a brand new six wire fence. There was a little creek about a hundered yds on the other side of the fence and I told Jamey I would take the dogs across the fence afoot to check to see if the bad guy had come that way. I told him if we struck to cut the fence and come-a-ridin. I went down to the creek and made a little circle, the dogs didnt strike anything on the creek so we started back up to where Jamey was waiting. Jamey was about twenty five yrs old at the time and he was a lot like an 18 mo. old pup, he had a really hard time staying focused. When I was checking the creek I could look up and see him periodically . He was talking and texting on his cell phone as usual, he had a half a dozen or so girls he was chasing around and that was burning up about 50 percent of his mental capacity during that period. Anyway me and the dogs was coming back up the hill and I saw Jamey had just put his phone in his pocket and fished out a can of scoal, just about the time he was putting a big dip in his lip , a little Blue-tic dog(Tojo) ran up and stuck his nose right between Chesters hind legs. That mule literally exploded. Jamey was still holding the skoal can and when Chester went to bucking he bogged his head between his legs. This jerked the reins down on the ground leaving Jamey with no steering wheel. 

Ive seen lots of folks bucked off but this was one of the funniest things ever I see. He left the saddle and went a good three or four ft above Chesters back and when he came down he hit on his back kinda up on his head and shoulders. He hit so hard it folded his legs back over his head and it made two indentions in the ground where his toes hit. He bounced up like a little rubber ball and got back on Chester who had stooped right beside him with this ( What, did I do something look). Jamey didnt think I had seen all this so when I walked up he acted if nothing had happened. I mounted up and looked around, his skoal can was partially embedded in the ground with the contents gone, it was laying right beside two litle holes in the soft ground where his toes had hit. We started to ride off when I pulled up and said" Hey looks like you dropped your skoal " He gave me a go to hell look and said " Yeah I did "


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

oh my goodness gracious, terry, i just laughed out loud, woke the dogs up!!! now that "dismount" sounds like one for the records--and maybe america's funniest home videos (if only you could have taped it)  but, what the heck, it's in your mind and you certainly shared it with us without video. 

wish i could have been there......


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Glad you enjoyed it, sorry about the typos, I just two finger typed it and hit submit.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Terry Holstine said:


> Glad you enjoyed it, sorry about the typos, I just two finger typed it and hit submit.


for a dismount like that (and any good story for that matter)--i'll look over yours if you'll look over mine

i have family in OKC, and if i ever get that far south again terry, i warn you i'll look you up. just sayin'.


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Anytime, its just 135 mi. S. of OKC


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

nice! you drive an hour, i drive an hour and we'll have coffee and pie   or maybe iced tea....


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Tea, unsweet.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

you'll have to pick the interchange, therefore the cafe! the only thing i know south of OKC is dallas/ft worth, lol.


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

Oh man, Terry, I am glad people convinced you to post. That was one of the funniest things I have read in a LONG time! :-D


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

hopefully jason (OP) got in touch with terry....??


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## Jason Berthelette (Jan 8, 2011)

Terry: 

Could you please help with the following questions. Any input is appreciated:

1. I am a fan of the training theory, with respect to distractions, that if you train to teach the dog to ignore a distraction it will not be a problem for them while working. With that said, is there any validity to the statement that "Black and tans or any hound bred to trail game will have issues when trained to trail man"? As mentioned I think that if the dog is trained and imprinted appropriately from a pup, the distraction will not be an issue. Your thoughts?

2. Have you seen success in other hounds, such as the black and tan and blue tick, on the streets with a PD as a bloodhound does? I am getting away from the traditional tracking (schutzhund) style commonly trained here in the northeast into patrol dogs and I see that, for the most part (breeding and drive levels aside) the avearage shepherd hasn't the stamina as the hound. Is this true for black and tans and blue ticks?

Thanks, 

Jason


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Jason, you show me a green dog with no training that wont chase a deer or hog when they jump up in front of him and Ill show you a dog that will never be worth a crap at chasing men either. That natural desire to run something is what I call drive. It cant be taught, given or loaned to a dog. He comes into the world with it or without it. Anybody that tells you a Black and Tan, Blue Tic, Red Bone, English etc, cant be trained as a straight manhunter is full of ---- as a Christmas turkey.

Now, there are some hounds that have a preference or attraction to certian species, I dont mind that. As a matter of fact I love a puppy that sees anything and everything as something to chase. Ive seen little 8 - 10 wk pups chase leaves blowing on the ground and open like they were hot on a trail. Thats drive and it was a gift given to him by his Mamma and Daddy that they got from hundreds of yrs of breeding.

The trick is to harness this drive and direct it in the direction you desire. As mentioned in the last paragraph some dogs have a natural affinity to certian animals. Some find it more interesting to chase game animals than men. These dogs can be broken from their habit but I have the luxury of going through a lot of pups so I usually dont spend much time on the ones that had rather run game animals than men. I have found that out of a litter of 8 - 10 pups I will usually get 2 - 3 that require very little correction to get them straight. These are the ones I focus on. 

I havent had a lot of experience using my hounds on a leash, I assume you would want to operate this way since you will be using them in urban areas. I have a couple of dogs we can work on leash but I had rather take a whoopin than do it. Spot hates it. We used him on a leash in Tecumseh on a gentleman that was knocking off pharmacies, it seems one of the pharmicists didnt want to give up his stuff so Stupid shot him then went to the next town and tried to rob another one. They were interrupted during the robbery, one was taken into custody after a brief car cahase and the other ran out the back door. I was down in my back so Jamey took the dogs to attempt a track. It was six hrs old and on pavement. When Jamey got there he called me and told me it was in town on pavement and contaminated. I told him he was probably pissing in the wind but to put him on a leash and try it.

Jamey said he led him to the back door and people were standing around everywhere, he called and told me Spot was cranking his tail and pulling. I said, " Hell, you aint got nothing to lose, (Yeah I know that a double negative) follow him and see where it goes. He called back in about five min. and told me he thought Spot was yankin his chain because he acted like he was sure nuff on a track. In a little bit he called back and said he had started to open, he was out of breath and hung up. I was on pins and needles for about 15 min. when he called back. He was all out of breath and said " We got that SOB.

As it turned out the badguy had ran down the ally, off into a wooded area, down a little creek, across a street, turned into a driveway, went around a house and crawled up under a bunch of debris behind a utility building. This was a case where the dog and handler was completely in over their heads. The time was at the outer edge of the timeline, it was contaminated and we dont train with scent articles, we dont train on leash and Jamey had just started handling the dogs and was green as grass. So how did Spot pick this guy who had been gone six hrs out of a crowd and track him down? Beats me.

Now for training methods. I know there are lots of folks who train and feed their dogs at the same time. There are some who like to start a dog with FST the switch to TTD. Once upon a time there was an individual in New York State named Bucky Phillips, he shot a few cops up there and was hunted by the New York State Police for six months or so . There were 1400 officers and numerous dog teams, most were the pointy eared variety. Bucky was seen running out of houses and crossing roadways thirteen times by my count after reading the after action review.One of the sightings was by a dog team . There was discission as to why the dog teams failed, their findings were that a man could run faster than a dog could track. 

Well I reakon Ive rambled all over the place and hope I answered some of your questions as I went by. I would like to add that if one is to train a dog to track men, he should have an honest sit-to with himself and deside if he wants to follow folks around or if his intentions are to catch the guy. If your intention is to overtake and catch, you dont need to be feeding your dog while training him.


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

I missed your question about stamina. Hounds are like humans, some have all the physical ability in the world but no heart, others have all the heart in the world but are physically limited. I dont like a loose made dog, I want him standing up on his toes and when he is fit he should be ripped. I generally exercise the pack with a 4-wheeler 3-5 miles at 8-10 MPH. If the weather is hot I go by water holes often to keep them wet. A good hound that is fit will probably wear out his handler.

I bet the Bloodhound question will come up. I have only tried one Bloodhound. I tried several that were half Red Bone and half Bloodhound. None of these made the cut. The Bloodhound woke up in a new world every day and the half breeds were the trashiest dogs I have tried so far. Granted, the sample is limited and I dont think any conclusions should be drawn. I did see a really nice Bloodhoud work a while back. She was worked in a harness and did some impresive things. I can tell you this, if I was given a task to find a person in town and that particular Bloodhound and her handler was present, I would defer to them. My dogs are like me, the're hillbillies and they had just as soon stay away from bright lights.


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## Jason Berthelette (Jan 8, 2011)

Terry, 

Thank you for the help. As mentioned in an earlier post I am doing research into a mantracker within the next few years. I have seen several breeds work and I have been drawn to the hounds. Your insight is appreciated. 

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Whatever breed you choose you must be brutally honest about the dogs capabilities, if he aint puttin out kick him to the curb and get another one.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Terry Holstine said:


> Whatever breed you choose you must be brutally honest about the dogs capabilities, if he aint puttin out kick him to the curb and get another one.


I think that is sage advice for any canine venue.

DFrost


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

```

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I'll second that! And also a caveat that as a handler be ready, willing and able to work with that dog! You can have all the talent in the world but if you dont get out there day after day in all environments/weather then its just wasted. I am sure thats not you, but I see it all too often.


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Y'all might find this interesting. I am in the final stages of training a litter of pups, there are eight of them. They are out of a Redtick dog and crossed with a Black/Tan bitch. The dog "Rocky" is one of my main squeezes and is an absolutely straight man tracker.

There are three males and five females. They are 18 months old now and two of the males are the best pups I have raised thus far. They have no interest in anything but a man and are absolutely obsessed with tracking. Every one of the females are hog crazy, I finally decided to keep the two good males and give the females to local hog hunters. I thought it was strange that the males were naturally attracted to men and the females turned out to be obsessed with hogs.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

that IS interesting terry.....hmmmm. is your "Rocky" the sire or the dam? just wondering because it almost sounds sex-linked. but weird....


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

They aren't related. Any way the hog hunters are tickled about it. I will probably do this cross again, the two males I kept are outstanding pups. They have been kicking Ole Spots ass during the training runs. Spot will be ten in October so I guess it's time for the new kids to take over.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

i had a walker **** hound, that would track everything except a person. She tracked skunks regularly. She actually tracked one into its den, managed to get herself trapped in the hole. Fours hours later, I'm standing there with the shovel, debating whether to cover the hole or dig the damn hound out lol. I dug her out, and she is happily hunting with a 13 year old boy now.


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Ann, Rocky is the sire.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

terry, when/if you repeat this cross, you really kinda need to let us know how the pups turn out. just because...

and tell those yougsters to listen to Spot--he knows more than they've ever dreamed about!


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Ok, I will probably do the deal on the next cycle. You are right about Spot knowing more about the game than the pups will know anytime soon. To bad I can't just run a USB between he and the pups and simply download all the accumulated knowledge and experience.


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Here is a cute story. We got a call to track an individual who had fled from a DAs drug task force,crashed his car and fled on foot. We started the track at the abandoned vehicle and tracked him around two miles to a point where the track abruptly ended. The pack was hot so we pulled them off to take them to a farm pond the aircraft had spotted for us. After they cooled down we took them back to where the track ended and they began to throw there noses in the air as if they were attempting to wind the suspect. 

Pepper is a big old chuckle headed dog that would probably be a professional clown if he were human. He had disappeared into a thicket then suddenly burst out of the brush line and headed for us. He was running, jumping, and playing with a small black object as if to say " Looky what I found " this attracted the attention of the rest of the pack and a chase ensued culminating in a six dog fight over this object. After the fight was broken up and there was peace in the valley, it was determined the object was a fanny pack with a goodly sum of US currency.

Once the bag was retrieved and secured we dragged the dogs back into the area of interest. Three of the dogs put their noses in the air and headed upwind to an old blown down Oak tree with a big hollow in it. They piled all over the old log and bayed. The bad guy was in the hollow tree and was taken into custody.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Well done!


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Well, I did something today I bet none of you folks have had to do. I got a call to track one of my cousins, same last name. We tracked him for 1.5 miles and bayed him in a farm pond. He was out in the middle with nothing sticking out but his nose. He was really hacked off and called me everything he could lay his tongue to.

He has been trying to break into prison for a long time, I reakon he has finally gotterdun.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Keeping it in the family huh! :lol: :wink:


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Keeping it in the family huh! :lol: :wink:


Good tracking!

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

Yep, law enforcement has it's downsides. I have been caught in situations before where family members were involved that enforcement actions had to be taken. My Grandmother came out of her private drive and ran a local rancher off in the ditch on the opposite side of the road and rammed into the side of his trailer. Guess who got the call to work the crash, yep it was me. I called my supervisor and told him the situation. He told me to go ahead and work it and that this was one of the costs of getting assigned to my home county.

I worked it, this included determining the cause, assigning fault and taking the appropriate enforcement action. I was later caught in similar circumstances involving my wife's brother, a cousin, and numerous dear and loved friends. I thought the worst was behind me until this last episode when I was ordered to chase another cousin down like a wild hog. To make matters worse I had to see him go through the degrading experience of trying to hide underwater trying to get little wisps of air by sticking his nose above the surface. Then he had to emerge covered in mud wearing a huge pile of moss on top of his head that looked like some of the hats I've seen on society folks.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol::lol: I'm guessing you sit facing the door with your back to the wall at family socials.:grin:


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

I have gradually reduced my exposure to social events. It seems to work better that way.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol::lol::lol: ;-)


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## Brad Trull (Apr 9, 2012)

Terry Holstine said:


> I have gradually reduced my exposure to social events. It seems to work better that way.



:mrgreen:

Me too ,but its because I get tired talking shop


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## Terry Holstine (Aug 5, 2008)

This week, hounds 3 bad guys 0.


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