# Betisier Dobermann Deutsche Meisterschaft 2009



## Greg Naranjo (Oct 28, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i95mDYV9FhE

enjoy....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I am still laughing. Those helpers have the patience of saints. THere should have been a lot of gunfire after that trial. SHITTERS


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## Greg Naranjo (Oct 28, 2008)

LOL Jeff.....i figured you'd be the first to post a reply


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Just post this shit instead. Just as good, and not nearly as painful to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-8Ok-h2Ccc&feature=related


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've said before, I really don't know all that much about schutzhund. I'm venturing a guess however, the dogs don't bite anywhere but the arm. Running away like that, with only a sleeve, I thought, holy smokes, I see a back or shoulder bite coming. Actually didn't see much of a bite, but the opportunity was there.

dFrost


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

David Frost said:


> I've said before, I really don't know all that much about schutzhund. I'm venturing a guess however, the dogs don't bite anywhere but the arm. Running away like that, with only a sleeve, I thought, holy smokes, I see a back or shoulder bite coming. Actually didn't see much of a bite, but the opportunity was there.
> 
> dFrost


Trust me David, I know Schutzhund and this was NOT good  

Back or shoulder bites?! Geez Louise they couldn't even target from the front or the side. 

But the music was entertaining


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That was just plain cold hearted :-# ........:-#.....to show that.....:-# ...... :lol::lol::lol::lol:
Sorry! couldn't help myself!


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Good god. As a former Doberman owner, and someone who still holds a bit of a candle for the breed, that made me feel sad. The breed is stuffed, no if's, no buts, no maybes. I dont care if theres a couple hidden somewhere or another that are good, if this is the best they could scrape up for a national, the DV and the German Doberman breeders should habg their heads in shame.
The only good thing to look at in that whole video is at the 2.28 minute mark.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

Like the far left or far right talk shows on Sunday morning
I am sure you could make a compilation video to make any breed look bad

although i get your point if its all at one show

( the escape decoys presentation was horrible)


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

The dobe may be in trouble, but I suppose this was just some misstakes and poor performing dogs and not the best dobes that participated.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Lauer said:


> Like the far left or far right talk shows on Sunday morning
> I am sure you could make a compilation video to make any breed look bad
> 
> although i get your point if its all at one show
> ...


Mike,

I totally agree. Take any National/International Schutzhund trial and you can come up with a blopper reel. The escape bite presentation was horrible. The sleeve presentation/angle on the long bite wasn't much better. 
The attack out of the back transport: DV is the only trial I've seen where the decoy turns toward his stick side instead of the sleeve side.
The dog that goes to the end of the field on the blind search:
Look where the handler is pointing? The dog went where the
handler pointed.
How many dogs were entered (50+) and how many are on the video (5 ?) Some dogs had grip problems. NONE of them ran off the field, all reengaged.
I only shitter I see here, is the POS who compiled and posted
this video. I bet he/she has never had a dog entered in any big trials. Probably never even titled a dog. LOSER


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

The top 3 dobes in the swedish IPO-championship for dobes two months ago,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmwiEUbiInQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cmiE9wL1qs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXh1SxJaPb4


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Mike,
> 
> I totally agree. Take any National/International Schutzhund trial and you can come up with a blopper reel. The escape bite presentation was horrible. The sleeve presentation/angle on the long bite wasn't much better.
> The attack out of the back transport: DV is the only trial I've seen where the decoy turns toward his stick side instead of the sleeve side.
> ...


Wow, everyone elses fault except the actual shitty dogs.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Well, he is a Dobermann guy. What did you expect ???

Anything is judged by it's best and it's worst. Excuses be dammed the dogs in the video sucked hard.


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Erik Berg said:


> The top 3 dobes in the swedish IPO-championship for dobes two months ago,
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmwiEUbiInQ
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cmiE9wL1qs&feature=related
> ...


 
IMO the first dobe Reguiz was very good and strong and fast. He showed some
power and presence... The other two are nice, but I wouldn't put them as 'national'
quality, especially the last one...geez...nice size, but ever so slow into the helper.
The only one that had a convincing bark was the first one. I have always hated
people saying "nice for a doberman'...what's that? We have one standard in
SchH/ZTP and they are either good for the work or not. How are you to breed, raise
and train dobermans if you lower the bar at the get go? I believe we saw better
dobermans years ago then today. Being one...the doberman owner is a 'different'
type of person they tend to be more kennel blind then the mal or gsd owner.
I hear my doberman bites hard...yea cause he is scared. Or my favorite, "he is
not a nerve bag he is watchful and alert like the standard says"...lolololololol rotflol
AG


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

These dogs would be an embarrassment at a club trial, let alone a national. WTF were these handlers thinking? I'd love to see the best at this event.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
IMO the first dobe Reguiz was very good and strong and fast. He showed some
power and presence...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

SHITTERS SHITTERS SHITTERS

Look at the Dobe people coming up with bullshit. No WONDER the breed sucks.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Jones said:


> Wow, everyone elses fault except the actual shitty dogs.



You obviously have a different definition of "shitter", then I do. I see training problems on a few dogs. I see a bull shit video, focused on a 5 out of 50+ dogs that is NOT indicative of the Dobermann breed or this event. Dobermanns aren't GSD's or
Mals, but look at ALL the dogs in the trial and not a select few.
I also question the agenda of the person who compiled and posted the video. Chris your bio says you train NVBK. Have you titled a dog in NVBK yet. Have you ever competed in
a National/International trial?


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> IMO the first dobe Reguiz was very good and strong and fast. He showed some
> power and presence...
> 
> ...


I am not sure why I am stooping to your level; My daddy is bigger than your daddy!"
I am just joking, Jeff. lol I would like to see the video of the DQs and 70s
and 80s at the AWMA Nationals and World competitions they have on
the AWMA home page. Look up event results, Jeff. Personally, I am proud of the people
that make it to these events and have the courage to show. It is nice to have a powerful
dog in any breed and we all have our favorite breed. I enjoy the videos of the bad and the
good. Watching the dogs have a bad day (training or temperament) makes me feel better
about my bad days, and the good dogs let me see what can be obtained. 
AG


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## Scott L. Donn (Sep 25, 2009)

I agree this video is terrible! Perhaps the poor Dobermans featured are so embarrassed by their liberal owners failure to properly crop and dock that they are unable to perform? Oh I'm sorry, it is not legal in Europe! Perhaps that is why my grandparents had to win the war for you? 
The Doberman is the only dog breed to be recognized by the United States Marine Corps. as the "Devil Dog"! Yes, they are not GSDs or Malis but they have achieved thier place of recognition and they did it where other dogs could not possibly survive the heat.
Enough said, perhaps we could encourage these poor owners to work harder?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The "Devil dog" reputation was earned during WWII. I'll agree that the dobe was a very serious dog back in the day. As a kid (born in '45) I saw a lot of the Dobes from the late 40s into the 50s. 
I'd love to have one of those just as most who admire the GSD would be willing to own even a showline GSD from the same era.
I taught obedience classes in the 80s and Dobes were fairly popular but I rarely saw one then that would bring fear to many people that understood more about the breed then looks.
Dobes as well as times have changed since the days of the "Devil Dog".


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## Greg Naranjo (Oct 28, 2008)

i needed a laugh ..so I watched this video again....you have to admit, the compilation is funny as shit


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I remember reading a line somewhere, how the breeders were so successful at breeding aggression out of the dobes - and this was stated in a positive manner. Originally I had wanted a doberman. Then I saw the ones that were available... 

Got to say though, the first video is hugely entertaining, and good overview of the many mistakes! :lol:=;


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> You obviously have a different definition of "shitter", then I do. I see training problems on a few dogs.


I guess we do have different definitions. Those dogs on that video were at best club level dogs. They would not be a police dogs ahole, most likley could never get to a ring title and should never be bred from. They lacked drive, nerve, courage and so on. To me this qualifies as a shitter. To you they obviously look fine. Cool. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> Chris your bio says you train NVBK. Have you titled a dog in NVBK yet. Have you ever competed in
> a National/International trial?


No, I have not trialed a dog in NVBK yet. I am training up my male to hopefully get his certificate, and we are getting there. Hes a really, really good dog Thomas. He is levels above those dogs in the videos, and I would without a doubt put him up against any of those Dobes that competed. He has extreme traits, which I just love. And do you know what really makes him a great dog? He manages to put up with my bad training and handling of him, he takes all the punishment I give him, he takes every wrong correction and stuff up on my behalf and our green decoys, but hes still an awesome dog. I just sit back and wonder how good he would be if he had a really good handler and trainer. I almost feel guilty for owning him sometimes. 
So he is still good, regardless of his missfortunes (living in Australia and me at the end of his lead). I dont need to make excuses for him. This is what we should be aiming for with Dobermanns. No? Dont you just get sick of looking for excuses for poor peformance? Why set the bar so low?

I also think had this have been a video of some K9 Prosports dogs or Butchs dogs you might well be singing a different tune. Thats called being selective


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Anita Griffing said:


> IMO the first dobe Reguiz was very good and strong and fast. He showed some
> power and presence... The other two are nice, but I wouldn't put them as 'national'
> quality, especially the last one...geez...nice size, but ever so slow into the helper.
> The only one that had a convincing bark was the first one. I have always hated
> ...


Yeah, Regiuz is a pretty nice dobe. Considering there is only a handfull of workingdobe breeders and handlers, it´s not so strange there is a shortage of dobes that are as good as the best mals and GSDs. Don´t think the situation is different in rotts,boxers or riesenschnauzers, probably worse.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Greg Naranjo said:


> i needed a laugh ..so I watched this video again....you have to admit, the compilation is funny as shit


It is actually quite funny. Its up there with the Pluto - Worlds Worst Police Dog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQpu9UoXCeM


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Jones said:


> So he is still good, regardless of his missfortunes (living in Australia and me at the end of his lead). I dont need to make excuses for him. This is what we should be aiming for with Dobermanns. No? Dont you just get sick of looking for excuses for poor peformance? Why set the bar so low?
> 
> >There are good dogs and bad dogs in all working breeds.
> >I'm not making excuses. I'm recognizing training problems
> ...


>Apples and oranges Chris. The Dobermann owners didn't
>post these videos. I don't hear any of them saying that
>their dogs were "World Champions" or that they were
>Master Trainers with X years experience.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> The "Devil dog" reputation was earned during WWII. I'll agree that the dobe was a very serious dog back in the day. As a kid (born in '45) I saw a lot of the Dobes from the late 40s into the 50s.
> I'd love to have one of those just as most who admire the GSD would be willing to own even a showline GSD from the same era.
> I taught obedience classes in the 80s and Dobes were fairly popular but I rarely saw one then that would bring fear to many people that understood more about the breed then looks.
> Dobes as well as times have changed since the days of the "Devil Dog".


Bob,

I was born in 46 so I know the Devil Dog reputation too.
There are VERY few people who could handle one now a days. The worse thing that happened to the Dobermanns was their popularity in the 70's and 80's (Doberman Gang Movies) Popularity also ruined the Rottweiller.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Erik Berg said:


> Yeah, Regiuz is a pretty nice dobe. Considering there is only a handfull of workingdobe breeders and handlers, it´s not so strange there is a shortage of dobes that are as good as the best mals and GSDs. Don´t think the situation is different in rotts,boxers or riesenschnauzers, probably worse.


Whilst I agree that nothing touches Mals and GSD for numbers of working dogs, I do disagree that Rotts are in a worse state that Dobes (or as bad as GS or Boxers). I think the standard at the ADRK DM is better than the DV DM.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Christopher Jones said:


> It is actually quite funny. Its up there with the Pluto - Worlds Worst Police Dog
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQpu9UoXCeM


Which is another reason why we should not judge a dog on one video. Certainly the film is funny and the dog did not have a clue what it was supposed to be doing.

However, that dog went on to be a very succesful police dog with numerous apprehensions and live bites in service.

Good training can make a poor dog look good on video and poor training can make a good dog look bad on video.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Ian, I'd even go as far as to say "which is why we can't judge a dog from *a* video". I enjoy watching videos but they are no substitute to seeing the dog in the flesh.

You can't even judge a dog from watching it at one trial or one training.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Personally, I am proud of the people
that make it to these events and have the courage to show. It is nice to have a powerful
dog in any breed and we all have our favorite breed. I enjoy the videos of the bad and the
good. 


The Dobe has been a fav of mine, so to see it that horrible is gruesome to me.

I am not sure what is worse, that people have become such flaming pussies that others should be proud that they are willing to go to trial, or that the level of dogs has slipped to the point where handlers would be so ****ing dumb as to take shitters like those to a trial like that. THey should be fined, or suspended from the organization.

People have bad days, I know I have, but I won't embarrass the organization KNOWING my dog is complete shit. Buko may **** me off in a trial, but he is no shitter.

As a Marine, and having talked to some of the "old timers" about the Dobermann, there were many many that were shot outright for attacking their handlers as they could not handle the stress of the noise of battle.

THere were some that distinguished themselves and were superior dogs in every way, but they were few and far between even back then.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Obviously there are some serious issues in the Dobermann breed. I think there are a number of factors that contribute to this. As a person who handles a Dobermann I am acutely aware of these issues. It became even more apparant last year (actually I had been researching for several years) when it came time to find a stud dog to breed my bitch to. The issues as I see them: 
1. The overwhelming majority of dogs bred are for conformation only. Even in Europe where they have to demonstrate some level of bitework for a ZTP or get an IPO1 title to compete in big conformation shows, it is difficult to find a good example to use. For most breeders temperament is 3rd on their list if it is on the list at all.
2. Health problems. It narrows the gene pool considerably if a breeder begins to look at the high prevalence of Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) and other heart issues, as well as cancer, Von Willebrands Disease and a few other issues the breed is succeptible to. This narrows the choices one has when they try to avoid line-breeding on dogs in the pedigree who have developed health issues. We are talking about 50% of Dobermann's dying from DCM. 
3. A very limited number of breeders who breed primarily for working ability. Even in Germany the number of breeders is probably less than a dozen who breed primarily for drive, nerve and working temperament. In the whole world the number is certainly less than 20 who breed from working lines AND test the dogs in working venues. Of these few breeders it is almost unheard of to see these breeders who DO breed putting out large numbers of litters, mostly one or two on a yearly basis.
4. I do agree that there are a number of Dobermann owners who wear rose-colored glasses in terms of the real quality of their dogs. If they are breeders as well, then the odds are stacked against them. 
5. There are very few Dobermann handlers or breeders who actually compete. I mean COMPETE, not just being satisfied getting a title or two on their dogs but to get out there and compare them against the best Mali's and GSD's. This enables them to continue to wear rose-colored glasses. There are some competitors who make too many excuses for their dogs. I think it is also quite possible that the dogs are titled only at a club level under too favorable conditions. 
6. Some Dobermann handlers who do actually participate in some working venue, think their dogs have to be treated with kid gloves or trained differently than GSD's or Mali's. Personally, I think this is hogwash. If the dog cannot take the pressure of training then it should not be bred. Nearly all of the training video's I see of Dobermann's is done 100% in prey. I kind of wonder how these dogs who are trained in this manner, will handle real pressure outside of a club venue with favorable conditons. 

More later.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

7. Crop/dock bans in Western Europe decreased the popularity of the breed and some prolific working line breeders have left the breed. 

All that said there are some good breeders of good Dobermann's out there. With good training and motivated handlers who can show the dogs well, then breeders could make better choices, then there could be a concerted effort to improve the Dobermann breed. Also that was a video of bloopers, I am sure there were some good performances that should be shown. No question however, the breed is in trouble and a concerted effort should and could be made to improve it. A start would be for the DV to lift the ban on AI. Breeders world wide could then have the option to breed to good working dogs that had already achieved longevity. This could go a long way to also improving the disastrous health situation with the breed.


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