# OB training Saturday



## Mark Ryden (Mar 25, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQp25-BfRxU


How do I make this faster?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

The dog carries out the commands correctly but I can see its ears go back when you shout "Bring".

The dog is under stress in my mind and you are causing it by your tenseness. Maybe the "slowness" is narking you and you are letting the dog feel it. The reward is on "automatic", i.e. well thought out but without feeling.

Have you tried letting the dog sit with the dumbell and calling it in? No throwing out - nearly all dogs have no trouble in going but a lot of trouble in coming back - maybe due to corrections, don't forget, dogs pick up your facial expressions quicker than you do theirs.

You could also try throwing it out far and calling it in in a friendly voice.

The above two methods are not foolproof but maybe worth trying.

Another method is holding the dog back until it rips away from you - often ensuring a quicker return.

Another method is to throw the dumbbell out, and when the dog is near to you, call "out" and throw him a ball. Needs quicker than lightning reactions and should only be used intermittently, i.e. 2 x ball, 1 x correct Bring exercise. I would place this as the best for a quick return.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Mark Ryden said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQp25-BfRxU
> 
> 
> How do I make this faster?


Great advice from Gillian. Another applicable method could be nick, nick, sometimes on way out and sometimes on return but with a second command. For example on the return, command Bring Here halfway in and nick nick. This will work if similar was used during line work as dog will know what the command/stim combo means. Also note that the ball reward is not enough to relieve the stress from this dog (just something to be aware of).


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

lay off the compulsion for a bit i would say , dog looks like its not enjoying himself too much , tail tucked and ears back , i am assuming he doesnt look like this when you play with a ball with him ?


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## John Dickinson (Apr 28, 2011)

maybe the ball is not a high enough value reward anymore. Is there another toy or food that he is crazy for? Maybe try that item and see. Also have you tried doing the retrieve without the E-Collar on him?

Out of curiousity, why are you moving to the side, basic position, to out the dumb bell?

Thanks


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

There is conflict with the dog. As Gillian stated your demeanor and posture could be imposing to the dog. It's not looking like a lot of fun. He needs a reason to run quickly back to you. 

Mark it looks like to me he is not "winning" enough. Kinda like you or I would be if someone was on our ass all day no matter what we did it wasn't good enough. Eventually you get that "hell with it" attitude. You still do the work but with no gusto or zeal....Kind of a weird comparison but the best way I know to put it. 

I could be wrong! Nice looking dog by the way...


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## Mark Ryden (Mar 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the comments He is my first dog traning in Schutzhund. I think he might be stressed from the e-collar, but I don't use it much with him.I think I am going to try not using it with him. I turn to the side since he was outing early, and I just had shoulder surgery 4 weeks ago. It was about 92 degrees out at the time so he was getting hot. I think I will try the tug to see if that gets him more excited.


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## John Dickinson (Apr 28, 2011)

I wasn't sure how you taught the retrieve, "Motivational" or "Forced", that is why I asked about the E-Collar. Just having the collar on may be stressful if knows what it is.
My rottie reacts to the tone of my voice also. So for sit and stand out of motion, I use a normal tone voice and for the Platz it is LOUD!
I have seen a couple videos people have posted here where they move to the side to out the dumb bell but in Schutzhund you out the dumb bell while the dog is in front and then finish them to the basic position. If he is outing early, I would go back and teach the hold again by itself and then go back to the retrieve. This may have also been where your problem originally started and has now transfered over to the speed in the retrieve. Good luck!


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Yup. Conflict. When a dog is suppressed (unsure, upset) everything slows down - the sit, the down, the retrieve. How fast are the recalls without the dumb bell?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I looked at it again as I was confused as to the side "out" people mentioned. I heard the loud commando but saw you take the db tentatively from the dog. Was this because of your shoulder?

One thing I did see, was that at the beginning, you commanded "Fuss" but the dog didn't change it's position, you went an inch or two nearer.

I also saw that the retrieves over the A-frame and the hurdle were much better than the ground retrieve and i wondered why you did them twice? The dog did them the same each time so repetition was in my mind useless.

The following has nothing to do with your dog:

I watched a Malinois at a trial last month. This dog was really under stress in the heeling, in fact at any time it was forced to be near the handler. The heeling was sick. However, the retrieves, all 3, were good.

I told my husband the dog would do a fabulous send-away and he looked at me questioningly until he saw the dog shoot off like lightning and down quickly - stress gone 

After the critique, I left the crowd and went to see how handler and dog interacted as they went to the car - the dog was unrecognisable - leapt up to the handler and she hugged it!!! Good to see, because that dog worried me watching it work.

Most of the spectators were adamant that it was the E-collar training (this said behind hands) but I'm not so sure, they're many ways of skinning a rabbit and a negative, nagging attitude on the part of the handler can cause more stress than an E-collar often enough.

Maybe someone with E-collar training could comment on your video. It would be interesting to read the comments and would maybe enlighten a number of people.

There is a German saying for such slow motions "Zwang nicht durchgezogen" which I think one could translate as "force used but not carried through to the end".


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