# Do you this this is a good deal?



## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

I know Im new here, and hopefully this is the right section for this question.

I have a good friend of mine who breeds King Corso's and does alot of Schutzlund/Personal Protection work also. Right now hes finding me a well rounded Malinois from a respectable breeder, which he has narrowed down to a breeder whos dogs are known for French Ring. 
Sorry for the little background speech but heres the question.

Hes going to charge me $3500 USD to fully train the dog in Obedience and some bite work/personal protection work. This also includes boarding the dog while there and feeding him too. He will be keeping the dog for 3-4 months doing training and I plan on continuing training when the dog gets back to Hawaii.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

How old is the mal? Is it a puppy or young adult?


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

kim guidry said:


> How old is the mal? Is it a puppy or young adult?


It will be a puppy, I'll be spending around $1,500 for the puppy and then my friends going to charge me $3,500 to train/board/feed the dog for those 4 months or so.

Also, not sure how old the puppy will be when I finally find the right one. Im guessing maybe a month or 2 old


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## Mike King (Jul 27, 2009)

You can usually get a 9-12month old green dog for around 3000. Doesn't sound like to bad of a deal. The 3500 for the training is fair.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Mike King said:


> You can usually get a 9-12month old green dog for around 3000. Doesn't sound like to bad of a deal. The 3500 for the training is fair.


I second the green dog. What if you dump $5,000 into a puppy that ends up with bad hips? or can't do the work? or someother something?


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Zach Edaburn said:


> I know Im new here, and hopefully this is the right section for this question.
> 
> I have a good friend of mine who breeds King Corso's and does alot of Schutzlund/Personal Protection work also. Right now hes finding me a well rounded Malinois from a respectable breeder, which he has narrowed down to a breeder whos dogs are known for French Ring.
> Sorry for the little background speech but heres the question.
> ...


 
What is a "King Corso" or do you mean Cane Corso?


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> What is a "King Corso" or do you mean Cane Corso?


 Yeah Cane Corso sorry.


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Anne Vaini said:


> I second the green dog. What if you dump $5,000 into a puppy that ends up with bad hips? or can't do the work? or someother something?


 This is true, dont most breeders give some kind of "return policy" type deal if the dog doesnt perform or has health issues?


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

by the way, Im entertaining the idea of a green dog. Anyone know if any Belgian Malinois for sale? I looked in the forsale section but there doesnt seem to be many people selling.

Thanks


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Zach Edaburn said:


> This is true, dont most breeders give some kind of "return policy" type deal if the dog doesnt perform or has health issues?


 
LOL, good luck with this, health is one thing "performance" is VERY subjective.

ALL pups are a Crap Shoot!


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> LOL, good luck with this, health is one thing "performance" is VERY subjective.
> 
> ALL pups are a Crap Shoot!


 What would you guys suggest then as far as looking for a puppy? I dont have the names of the breeders my friend is looking into but from what he told me he found a respectable breeder whos Sir/Dam is titled in French Ring and has had some good litters.

Sorry for the dumb questions

and thanks again for everyone's help


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Zach Edaburn said:


> This is true, dont most breeders give some kind of "return policy" type deal if the dog doesnt perform or has health issues?


Sure, but getting the breeder to honor it can be an issue. They are usually very limited and even IF it did apply AND the breeder honored the policy, you're still out a whole lot of time and money.

Email Mike Suttle and see if he has anything available!


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Zach Edaburn said:


> What would you guys suggest then as far as looking for a puppy? I dont have the names of the breeders my friend is looking into but from what he told me he found a respectable breeder whos Sir/Dam is titled in French Ring and has had some good litters.
> 
> Sorry for the dumb questions
> 
> and thanks again for everyone's help


 
Debbie Skinner had a nice looking prospect for sale a couple of weeks ago

http://www.pawsnclaws.us/malpups.htm


I like this "B" litter

http://www.loupsdusoleil.com/breedings.html


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Debbie Skinner had a nice looking prospect for sale a couple of weeks ago
> 
> http://www.pawsnclaws.us/malpups.htm
> 
> ...


Thanks, I want him to go to an experience sport home though and someone that can train and title the puppy. Thanks though. He's the only one I have to sell so I'm in no hurry and am having fun putting some foundation work on him.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Zach Edaburn said:


> Hes going to charge me $3500 USD to fully train the dog in Obedience and some bite work/personal protection work. This also includes boarding the dog while there and feeding him too. He will be keeping the dog for 3-4 months doing training and I plan on continuing training when the dog gets back to Hawaii.


The $$ amount seems fair for the amount of time he'd have the dog, but the time period actually raises some questions. If he finds you a puppy then keeps the dog for 3-4 months, what you will be getting when he ships it to you will be a 5-6 month old puppy. The dog can have a TON of foundation work put into it, but I would not consider a 5-6 month old puppy fully trained in Obedience. Same goes for the bitework, it can have foundation work put in, depending on it's abilities it might even be in the suit and know some basic skills (keep in mind it will be teething for 1/2 the time he has it) but it's not going to have personal protection work put into it, it's just a baby.

If your friend is a good trainer you will have a nice solid foundation to build off of once you get the pup, but you will need to find some good trainers to continue building on that foundation, or you may as well save your money.


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> The $$ amount seems fair for the amount of time he'd have the dog, but the time period actually raises some questions. If he finds you a puppy then keeps the dog for 3-4 months, what you will be getting when he ships it to you will be a 5-6 month old puppy. The dog can have a TON of foundation work put into it, but I would not consider a 5-6 month old puppy fully trained in Obedience. Same goes for the bitework, it can have foundation work put in, depending on it's abilities it might even be in the suit and know some basic skills (keep in mind it will be teething for 1/2 the time he has it) but it's not going to have personal protection work put into it, it's just a baby.
> 
> If your friend is a good trainer you will have a nice solid foundation to build off of once you get the pup, but you will need to find some good trainers to continue building on that foundation, or you may as well save your money.


Thanks for the reply, I too asked that same question. I was concerned about the puppy being so young and only have 4 or so month of training and how he would react to me since he wouldnt know me. My friend told me he can teach him the basics and then I'd need to follow through with the training which there are a few clubs in Hawaii that teach/support Schutzhund and others that Im going to look into.
I know the dog will not know everything but just to build a foundation which I can build off of. 

Im not a skilled trainer and this would be my first dog so that is why Im thinking about having my friend teach the dog the basics and then I can find a club in Hawaii to continue with and I plan on going to Fort Carson/Colorado Springs in a year and a half and continue there.
I see there are a few members from that area so thats nice to know.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Zach Edaburn said:


> Thanks for the reply, I too asked that same question. I was concerned about the puppy being so young and only have 4 or so month of training and how he would react to me since he wouldnt know me. My friend told me he can teach him the basics and then I'd need to follow through with the training which there are a few clubs in Hawaii that teach/support Schutzhund and others that Im going to look into.
> I know the dog will not know everything but just to build a foundation which I can build off of.
> 
> Im not a skilled trainer and this would be my first dog so that is why Im thinking about having my friend teach the dog the basics and then I can find a club in Hawaii to continue with and I plan on going to Fort Carson/Colorado Springs in a year and a half and continue there.
> I see there are a few members from that area so thats nice to know.



I would NOT get a puppy until you're able to train him yourself. You want the puppy to bond with you not your friend or a pro trainer. Find a mentor that will teach you to teach you dog. In the meantime get together with a local
club or training group and help and observe them. Maybe be willing to put on a sleeve or bite suit. You mention Fort Carson/Colorado Springs. Are you in the service in Hawaii?
Are there any K9 units you can hang out with there?


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I would NOT get a puppy until you're able to train him yourself. You want the puppy to bond with you not your friend or a pro trainer. Find a mentor that will teach you to teach you dog. In the meantime get together with a local
> club or training group and help and observe them. Maybe be willing to put on a sleeve or bite suit. You mention Fort Carson/Colorado Springs. Are you in the service in Hawaii?
> Are there any K9 units you can hang out with there?


 Yes Im in the Army currently in Iraq at the moment but will be getting back next month.
There are a few clubs in Hawaii Im trying to get ahold of and I'd love to put on a bite suit/sleeve and try that out. We do have a K9 unit on base, Im actually trying to reclass to MP and become a K9 handler.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

How old will the puppy be? A lot of people wait until the dog is a bit older, you can then do prelims on the hips and elbows to feel comfortable.

As Kadi states, the puppy will be going through teething and not much work can be done during that time and a bit after.

Bit much for 3-4 months of puppy stuff. If the dog was 1 yr, sounds OK for 8-1000 per month.


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## Richard Tom (Feb 4, 2009)

Hey Zach, I'm in Hawaii. I also brought in a Mal last year that a friend gave and did the quarantine period for me. 
There are only two Schutzhund clubs here, one on Oahu and one on the Big Island. I'm on the Big Island, you'll need to hook up with Aloha Schutzhund, they train on the Marine Base in Kaneohe, Oahu. 
There's a really good person who's a member of the club on Oahu, he's also in the Army and has served in Iraq. He's currently on a special team that helps out process solder's returning from war zones. He works Mal's and has an occasional litter. The amount you'll end up paying to get you PUPPY trained and through quarantine is a bit high IMO, if it were an older proven dog it would be different. This is your first working dog and you will make a lot of mistakes training him. Since it sounds like you'll only be in Hawaii 1.5 years, you may want to consider other options and wait to get you second dog when you get to CO. By then you'll have some experience and know what you want to look for. This will also help in getting the breeder's confidence in giving you the best pic. Not too many breeders (of the good working dogs) will sell the best dogs to someone with no experience that is going to Hawaii, there's no exposure for him or his kennel and it could be a waste of a good dog. 
That said......if your mind is still made up and you want to bring in a puppy with some foundation I'd also recommend Mike Suttle at Logan Haus Kennels. He sent two Duchies here this past year. I've never dealt with him personally but one of my training partners has and he has nothing but good things to say about his dogs and his experience dealing with Mike. Mike is also known for his foundation training of young dogs.
If you want to email me I can help you as much as I can, [email protected]. Rich


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Richard Tom said:


> Hey Zach, I'm in Hawaii. I also brought in a Mal last year that a friend gave and did the quarantine period for me.
> There are only two Schutzhund clubs here, one on Oahu and one on the Big Island. I'm on the Big Island, you'll need to hook up with Aloha Schutzhund, they train on the Marine Base in Kaneohe, Oahu.
> There's a really good person who's a member of the club on Oahu, he's also in the Army and has served in Iraq. He's currently on a special team that helps out process solder's returning from war zones. He works Mal's and has an occasional litter. The amount you'll end up paying to get you PUPPY trained and through quarantine is a bit high IMO, if it were an older proven dog it would be different. This is your first working dog and you will make a lot of mistakes training him. Since it sounds like you'll only be in Hawaii 1.5 years, you may want to consider other options and wait to get you second dog when you get to CO. By then you'll have some experience and know what you want to look for. This will also help in getting the breeder's confidence in giving you the best pic. Not too many breeders (of the good working dogs) will sell the best dogs to someone with no experience that is going to Hawaii, there's no exposure for him or his kennel and it could be a waste of a good dog.
> That said......if your mind is still made up and you want to bring in a puppy with some foundation I'd also recommend Mike Suttle at Logan Haus Kennels. He sent two Duchies here this past year. I've never dealt with him personally but one of my training partners has and he has nothing but good things to say about his dogs and his experience dealing with Mike. Mike is also known for his foundation training of young dogs.
> If you want to email me I can help you as much as I can, [email protected]. Rich


Thank you Richard. I've heard of Schutzlund Hawaii and Aloha Schutzland but couldnt find a website or any other info. I was actually hoping to find a Mal in Hawaii but didnt have any luck finding one so my friend suggested getting a dog in the states and shipping it to Hawaii. I actually had brought one of my APBT to Hawaii and had to have it quarantined for 120 days and it was hard on the dog. Id like to skip that process if I could. 

I'd like to thank everyone who has helped me, I have so many options its def hard to pick the right one.


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Zach Edaburn said:


> Thank you Richard. I've heard of Schutzlund Hawaii and Aloha Schutzland but couldnt find a website or any other info. I was actually hoping to find a Mal in Hawaii but didnt have any luck finding one so my friend suggested getting a dog in the states and shipping it to Hawaii. I actually had brought one of my APBT to Hawaii and had to have it quarantined for 120 days and it was hard on the dog. Id like to skip that process if I could.
> 
> I'd like to thank everyone who has helped me, I have so many options its def hard to pick the right one.


here is an idea...

source out a good puppy, I;m sure people would be happy to help you find a good breeding. 

Grab a puppy, and buy a ton of videos, and train the dog yourself!

When I am training with clients, I always show them how to do things and have them train the dog, with me present to guide them and show them what they are doing right, and what they are doing wrong....
If you pay some dude to train your dog, chances are , it's most of the training is going to go out the window since you don't seem to know anything about dog training. (no insult intended, really)

Buy a puppy, buy a bunch of dvds from leerburg and other sources and just do it yourself. Save yourself some money.


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> here is an idea...
> 
> source out a good puppy, I;m sure people would be happy to help you find a good breeding.
> 
> ...


 no insult taken, makes alot of scense.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If you are really gonna be a military working dog handler, you could always wait until you have 800 dogs around to see what you really like.


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

if you want to imort a pup and want it young I think you can get one from europe. both sweden and norway are rabies free so i think we wuld be able to send a pup at 10 weeks of age. denmark have som realy nice dogs to and i think you can get the pup from them as youg as from sweden and norway.

ther are som nice breeder that have police/miletary dogs and also good sport dogs


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## Richard Tom (Feb 4, 2009)

Hello Andreas,
I didn't know Sweden and Norway are rabies free. What are the rules and regulations to export dogs to the UK or Australia from Denmark or Sweden? Right now Hawaii will only recognize the British Isles, Australia, Guam And New Zealand as rabies free. They won't allow direct release from Sweden or Denmark, however if the dog can enter the UK or one of the other recognized rabies free countries without quarantine it should be able to then enter Hawaii without quarantine from one of those countries that Hawaii does allow direct release. The shipping will be outrageous but that's the price we pay to live in paradise......


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

yes we are completly rabies free. Both sweden and norway has never han one case of rabies. Untill about 3 years ago you neaded to have dog cuarentend for 7 month befor entering sweden.

I can understand that you cant get a dog directly from denmark becaus they downt have as hard rules as sweden and norway. You can import dogs directly from germany to denmark with only a shot of rabies, you can not do that to sweden ore norway. To import a dog her you nead to give the dog 2 shots of rabies vacsine, then wait for 180 days and after that do a posetive test for antibodys.

check your import rules again becaus you shuld be able to take dogs directly from sweden, exept for the Uk I think sweden have the hardest rules of any cuntry for imports.
we have exported dogs to usa and norway from sweden with no problem. I think we paid 500$ to shipp ouer last pups to the USA so that is not a wery hig price. I do not know if its more expensive to ship to Hawaii.

then i know ther have been som other problems when we was looking to export at pup to australia, but that was more with the traveling. you wher not able to send sutsh a youg pup on a plane for sutsh a long time. i thikn the neaded to be 4-5 mont. downt remeber exactly.


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

hmm i read you import rules and they are exactly the same as sweden and norway. I also lookt at the list of cuntrys and its like you say only thos 4 cuntrys. its realy odd. i will look at this a bit more tomorow "just for fun. I like messig with stuff liek this. I want to kno why you have the same rules as us but you cant get a dog directly from us. its odd


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I would have a guy who knows something about Mals help me . the person who told you that they are going to fully train your pup in 3 or 4 mos is trying to rob you or they don't know what they are doing. I agree with the crowd . get a started green dog. jma


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## Richard Tom (Feb 4, 2009)

Tim, I couldn't agree more, I don't want to be negative about Zach's "friend" in public, I was hoping to tell Zach in private but hasn't emailed me. It's his first working dog...........
Andrea's, It's hard to understand all the different countries quarantine laws. Even though we (Hawaii) can import dogs directly from Guam, if you import a dog into Guam from Hawaii you must give a rabies shot and wait 30 days before sending it into Guam. If it arrives before the 30 days the dog has to go into Guam's quarantine for 30 days. I shipped a dog to Guam and did the 30 days in Hawaii so the dog could get direct release, they didn't require any type of blood test, just the shot and waiting period. Doesn't make sense.


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

richard.
yes denmark have the same rules. you can import a og from USA with only a abies shot and then wait 30 days. its a odd rule  but I emaild hawaii gov to sa why they have thos rules against a completly rabies free cuntry. i ges its like UK, only ilands are ok, we do have borders witsh a animal culd walk over. maby thats wahts the diferns fo them.


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Richard, I dont think I got a PM from you but I will have to check again. 
I dont know if maybe I worded it wrong, but my friend wont "fully" train the dog, he will do basic OB and do some bite work with the dog to get the dog used to it so it wont be so hard on me when I start working with the dog since it will be my first "working dog".

But I am exploring all my options and taking what people say in. I'd love to get a dog on island so I can skip the whole quarantine headache! I've found one breeder, which I emailed about puppies but they havent emailed me back yet. Since most of you think I should do the whole training myself, I may just get some videos/books and start from there and then try and hook up with a club on island and see how that goes.

And thanks Andreas, I have some family from Sweden. Ill have to look into seeing what needs to be done about importing a dog from one of those countries.


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

No problem, I will look in to it some more and get back to you again.
But by the way, why are you Importing a dog ? are ther no breeders in hawaii?

I know its always a thrill importing a dog but often its not al that good. You nead to trust peopels opinions of ther dogs and you will only se ther point on what they like.
we have imported aloot of dogs and at the end we have found 2 breeders that have the same liking in dogs, But on that way we have tryed aloot of dogs that did not fal to ouer liking.

im with the rest of thos guys, get a older pup/young dog, If your not a breeder you do not nead to consentrat on lines as mutsh. you can just look around for ONE great dog that fitts your nead.
go to difrent kennels, test the dogs and se if you cant find exactly what you are looking for.

Importing a dog is often a pretty big waste of time "if your not a breeder ore the cuntry laks this breed" almost always you have nice dogs in your own cuntry and ther you can meet mother father siblings and maby even Grandparents and grandgrand parents, plus if you realy do you homwork and test the dogs you do not nead to trust any other persons judgement.


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

So now I have talkt to them some more. Realy nice peopel taht awsers extreamly quic, Goo hawaii 

sorry ther rules are exactly the same as uers but ther is stil no way to import directly, only way is the _5 day or less checklist ._

if im coret you dog will nead to be 3 month when it gets the fist shoot, then wait 3 more mont, then wait 4 month so aound 10 month old right?

For 3500 $ I wuld hold and train you dog for thos mont to


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

andreas broqvist said:


> No problem, I will look in to it some more and get back to you again.
> But by the way, why are you Importing a dog ? are ther no breeders in hawaii?


 Just looking at my options I guess. If I can skip the quarantine part then the better. 
As far as breeders go, I havent found any other then just people selling puppies on criagslist or puppy finder.


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## fred karlsson (Mar 18, 2009)

buy a 2-3 year old PPD from Europe, spend 20-30k and you are set. 5k for a puppy sounds like a shit deal unless you are buying 10 of them and keeping one.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

fred karlsson said:


> buy a 2-3 year old PPD from Europe, spend 20-30k and you are set. 5k for a puppy sounds like a shit deal unless you are buying 10 of them and keeping one.


 
Zach you can do what Fred says, just make sure you post a video or else everyone will think you’re scared you think you got ripped off


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## Zach Edaburn (Aug 30, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> Zach you can do what Fred says, just make sure you post a video or else everyone will think you’re scared you think you got ripped off


 :lol: Yeah Im not spending 20-30K on a dog unless it shits gold! LOL.

I've decided to find a puppy on Hawaii and hook up with a local Schutzhund club and work with them. Then once I go state side and have a little more experiance Im going to look into a "well bred" Working dog puppy that has a great bloodline.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I know that english is not your fist language and all, but 

"cuntry"

Needs to be spelled country. I cannot stop laughing, and that makes it hard to pay attention. I think that you are more right than you know about America with that spelling. LOL


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I noticed that, too, but glad you brought it up first!!

At a disco once, with my boyfriend and another couple, I inadvertently kept nudging the other male with my foot!

Sorry, I said, I didn't mean to play "footsie-footsie". My boyfriend groaned, "footsie" = "cuntry"


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