# Genetics -- White Patches



## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

I'm curious as to why puppies/dogs get white patches on their chest. 

I have a litter of x Dutch Shepherd puppies, and almost all of them have some sort of white on their chest. Some have bigger patches, others smaller. Neither parent has white patches on their chest, and in the mother's first litter none of them had one. 

I've also never saw them on any of the dogs in that particular line (Selena jump in and correct me if I'm wrong here). The litter is bred very tightly.

Any input to satisfy my curiousity is appreciated!


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Did Rambo Rossum have any white patches? If not maybe they have some Elgos some where (just kiddin)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Megan Bays said:


> I'm curious as to why puppies/dogs get white patches on their chest.
> 
> I have a litter of x Dutch Shepherd puppies, and almost all of them have some sort of white on their chest. Some have bigger patches, others smaller. Neither parent has white patches on their chest, and in the mother's first litter none of them had one.
> 
> ...


genetics 

not the answer you are looking for probably, but the only one I have for ya..


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> genetics
> 
> not the answer you are looking for probably, but the only one I have for ya..


LOL I got that far....


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

will fernandez said:


> Did Rambo Rossum have any white patches?


Hmmmm maybe... Selena?



> If not maybe they have some Elgos some where (just kiddin)


:-o:lol:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Probably from the collie. :wink:


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## Jami Craig (Jul 5, 2010)

If we imagine that it's really simply mendelian genetics (and it never is lol) If both parents were heterozygous for a recessive white spot they wouldn't have them but the puppies could (the entire litter though...that sort of supports the idea this isn't some simple autosomal recessive thing XD). Then if the first stud the female was crossed with was homozygous for not having white spots none of the puppies would 

or it could be magic.....


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Short answer: They don't really know exactly why it happens. It's something about melanocyte (what causes color) migration in the embryos but they don't know if it's just the rate of migration or if something prevented the migration from finishing. It could be simple Mendelian genetics but not in the way you'd expect (rate of migration vs. the spot itself etc) 

It's all pretty interesting if you're into genetics. I did a paper on comparing dog and horse coat color and pattern inheritance and so much of it was "It could be this or that but they don't know".


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

Jami Craig said:


> If we imagine that it's really simply mendelian genetics (and it never is lol) If both parents were heterozygous for a recessive white spot they wouldn't have them but the puppies could (the entire litter though...that sort of supports the idea this isn't some simple autosomal recessive thing XD). Then if the first stud the female was crossed with was homozygous for not having white spots none of the puppies would
> 
> or it could be magic.....


To make it more complicated, or interesting  , the first stud was the father of the second stud. 

Not sure at this point if they ALL have white spots, it was like they just popped out of no where. I'll look again tonight when I check on them before going to bed. 

I'm going with magic or Elgos :lol: !


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Show dogs don't have the white spot........well....not after the dye job that is!  :-#


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Take a better look at my puppy pics ;-) in every litter we have some white patches at the chest and white toes  usually little ones, which you cant find as adult.
If i remember right baby bor had a little white patch and a white toe, and even hedwig had some white hairs a her chest as pup.

Biggest patches i had in a litter was dushi x bassie. Dushi is a genetically identic to hedwig and this was also hafbro/ half sis mating over Wibo. There is vid of them on my you tube channel, you can see my whelping box set up too on that vid, i' m sitting in it while filming.


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

I don't guess I've looked close enough! Hmm that's interesting...

Some of the pups have really big patches. They were trying to open their eyes last night  . I'm going to try to get some pics in the next couple days. 

My whelping box is identical to yours, remember I made you send me pics of it! 

Where are they getting the white from? Wibo?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

No, have it also in litters bred over rocky. Usually the most dark pups havesome white. The pTches don't grow with the dog, so will appaer smaller or non existent in adult dogs.


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

All of these are really dark; much darker and bigger than her first litter. I'm still struggling to tell which are black and which are brindle.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Will be more clearwhwn they about 5/6 wks. On the most dark dogs its hard to see. Some dogs appear black but if there is just a liitle gold in their coat they are genenatically brindle ( anne was, and tadej van iris has some gold in her coat).


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

Loki has some gold hairs running across her shoulders. They're very faint and hard to see though.


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