# Hog shows on Discovery



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Last night they had all the shows on hog....one after another, starting with "Pig Bomb". The first show took the view that wild hogs are a threat to our existence and we can't kill them fast enough. Then the next shows have one hog removal team after another live catching hogs for relocation. Some used dogs and run around in the brush screaming "he's got the dog down!!!! he's got the dog down!!!" People never heard of a pistol? The shows depicting the depredation specialists were amusing to say the least. Lots of BS in those shows but they were fun to watch. My favorite parts were when the kept referring to them as huge danerous "beasts", not hogs or pigs, but 'DANGEROUS BEASTS".....then it shows the pig they are talking about being dragged out of the brush by one person holding one leg....100 lber. I think they were playing to the audience just a bit.

I just picked up a depredation permit at Fish and Game and the officer told me to notify the local guy if I was going to be spotlighting because it is normally illegal but can be done on depredation. I have no intention of running around these hills in the dark since you can't get up and down them when it is daylight. Nice thing about dogs is they can find them during day as well as they can at night. I may just take some 16' hog panels to one area where the hogs come through and build a pen type trap.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I watched it also and was wondering how real all this was I did see the one bigger one they ended up sticking it with a knife to dispatch it I was thinking the jackn00bs weren't allowed guns cause they might shoot themselves or the camera crews it was entertaining sounds like they end up in the sausage factory also so that's good.
I haven't heard of any problems here with them but I'm sure there are a few running around up north in the arrow head


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Hard core pig hunter would never shoot the pig. There is tradition for the hard core boar hunters.

The catch dogs catch and hold and the hunter kills the pig via knife through the heart and lungs.

You have never hunted with your own heart pumping overdrive till you stick one.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

That's ok for a sport hunting show Jerry, these were people in the depredation business. I do think Mike hit the nail on the head because I think they were afraid of shootng each other. I know several people that do depredation and they don't run around playing great white hunter with a knife. A depredation outfit isn't doing much to staying in business if all they can do is one hog every couple of days. Lot's of "for tv hype". 

I usually hunt by myself and am not crawling around in heavy brush with a knife playing cowboy because I won't stand there screaming "hes' got the dog down!!!!, he's got the dog down!!!!" I rather the hog be down than my dogs.

You do know the last thing a ******* ever say's.
"Hey guys, watch this!!!!"

Oh , and my heart really gets pumpng when I see my dogs 8' in the air doing sommersaults 10' back into the brush.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> That's ok for a sport hunting show Jerry, these were people in the depredation business. I do think Mike hit the nail on the head because I think they were afraid of shootng each other. I know several people that do depredation and they don't run around playing great white hunter with a knife. A depredation outfit isn't doing much to staying in business if all they can do is one hog every couple of days. Lot's of "for tv hype".
> 
> I usually hunt by myself and am not crawling around in heavy brush with a knife playing cowboy because I won't stand there screaming "hes' got the dog down!!!!, he's got the dog down!!!!" I rather the hog be down than my dogs.
> 
> ...


Sorry Don, but that is not how it is done. No crawling under the bush. Cowboys will never be allowed on a hunt with me. Just to dangerous for dip shit drama.

Curs locate the pig. Often a mile or further from the hunter. The curs will have a GPS attached. Once all hell breaks out, the hunter comes within range with likely a dogo or two who do the actual catch.

The very last thing you want to confront is a wounded 500 lb pig. This is why guns are not the prefered method. And yes dogs can be tossed high and far. Smart hunters equip the dogs with Kevlar vests.

Once the pig is caught by the Dogos. The dispatch by knife, 10, 12, 14 inch of the pig by the hunter is instant death. No squelling.

Most times, during these hunts, many pigs are located and hung in the smoke house.

In parts of South America, Argentina example. It is not so much a sport. It is the way to feed the family.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I watched this show. If they are really trying to control or get rid of this things I thought they were pissing into the wind. 5 guys getting a pig every night or two aint gona do it. Those guys with the trap that caught 4 were headed down a better road but they needed to set up a dozen more of those traps. It looked like they were using hunting as a way of trying to exterminate. If they did the math of the kill/ breed ratio they would figure out there methods aint gona work


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Pigs are likely not to be exterminated, perhaps control the number still out there doing damage to farms.

Here is a pic of one of the better pig hunters in the USA. Marvin has it down to an art.

I believe they took four that day.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

"Not how it's done according to who, is doing it. A common tool in Hi, is a spear rather than a knife. Here, most people just shoot them between the shoulder blades. Some take dogos and curs , bay dogs, bull dogs etc. Everyone has their own ideas. I just take two dogs as the norm. No one here will even eat a boar over 125 lbs....much less the proverbial boar of 500 lbs. How many of those 500 lbers have you seen Jerry? I have only seen them on the internet. Never seen one while hunting.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> "Not how it's done according to who, is doing it. A common tool in Hi, is a spear rather than a knife. Here, most people just shoot them between the shoulder blades. Some take dogos and curs , bay dogs, bull dogs etc. Everyone has their own ideas. I just take two dogs as the norm. No one here will even eat a boar over 125 lbs....much less the proverbial boar of 500 lbs. How many of those 500 lbers have you seen Jerry? I have only seen them on the internet. Never seen one while hunting.


 Stop hunting on the internet.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> I watched this show. If they are really trying to control or get rid of this things I thought they were pissing into the wind. 5 guys getting a pig every night or two aint gona do it. Those guys with the trap that caught 4 were headed down a better road but they needed to set up a dozen more of those traps. It looked like they were using hunting as a way of trying to exterminate. If they did the math of the kill/ breed ratio they would figure out there methods aint gona work


Agreed Chis. That was the point I was making. The picture below took less than 1 hour with 3 dogs, but still doesn' make a dent.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Stop hunting on the internet.
> 
> View attachment 1791


That's a big 10-4 Jerry.
This hog was only 430 lbs. Where you finding all these hogs in Canada?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

eradication does not equal hunting and hunting does not equal eradication, does it?



Eradications seem to me like they should have much higher efficiency than hunting for sport.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

That's right Joby. The show relay totally different messages. "Pig Bomb" paints a dire picture og the takeover of hogs. The following shows showed a bunch of guys out playing with a camera crew, talking the big story about how they are solving the problem with a hog every couple of nights....with 4 to 6 guys catching and realeasing. Yeh, releasing them elsewhere is going to solve alot. So they killed a coupel. The most realistic scene was where the dogs were chasing the hog anfd the guy was sitting back there with a ranch rifle throwing lead at it. LOL

All in all, most of the shows should have been on the hunting channel instead of Discovery.

It is hard to believe these guys are getting paid to do this.


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## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

They were definetly playing to the camera. The relocation theory is complete waste of time. Go after the sows so they can't reproduce. Except here in California, the boars will just marry and adopt a piglet from a 3rd world nation.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> That's a big 10-4 Jerry.
> This hog was only 430 lbs. Where you finding all these hogs in Canada?


There is a very exciting hunt coming up in Argentina. Horseback, no curs and a pack of 6 Dogos. No crawling through bush and snakes . The home territory where Dogos were created. 

Wild pigs are not native to Canada. Although the rumour is Alberta has a population that began from a commercial wild boar farm that escaped years back.

I sold all my rifles years ago and only kept one 306 to ding yotes, coywolves, wolves and bears that wander to close to my kennel. In fact I have to keep my eyes and ears on the bit right now. I have a couple bitches in season now. Yotes and wolves are horny turds. They are so close at night now that they are not howling. I can hear about a dozen yiping to call out a stupid dog for a fight or sex. They do not care. They are very close to the barn when they start that shit.

I am a dyed in the wool bow hunter today for deer and moose and pigs only with a Laredo Bowie between the snake boots and my leg.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I am glad you explained that Jerry. You had mentioned curs in an earlier post and then said the dogo's caught. Dogos usually do it all themselves without curs. They were bred as stand alone dogs.
I carry a 14" bowie myself but I keep it in a pack. I preferr a 44 mag and hot handloads with 300 grain XTP's when I am crawling in the brush to get to the dogs. If not in the brush, I carry a 45/70. Puts them in the dirt quick so my dogs don't take a beating when they get stupid.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I am glad you explained that Jerry. You had mentioned curs in an earlier post and then said the dogo's caught. Dogos usually do it all themselves without curs. They were bred as stand alone dogs.
> I carry a 14" bowie myself but I keep it in a pack. I preferr a 44 mag and hot handloads with 300 grain XTP's when I am crawling in the brush to get to the dogs. If not in the brush, I carry a 45/70. Puts them in the dirt quick so my dogs don't take a beating when they get stupid.


 Keep the faith


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

is there some snobbery between people that do bite sports and everyone else;

pigs will move out of / avoid an area by themselves whent here is a lot of hunting going on - doesn't mean they won't return but they definately leave an area being worked if only to go around you.

trapping is effective and lucrative if you have contacts in europe, germans have lots of pigs but they pay premium for game/wild pig meat, they have to be killed at the trap/frezzer though not bought in dead. hardly a sport though.

stand alone dogs have been a myth forever, two sets of dogs for bailing/catch is usually more effective from what i have seen. n i have seen the best stand alone dogs there are.

true most sport hunters will not eradicate large volumes quickly, hell most will let all the breeders and youngsters go untouched to ensure there is something to hunt next season or they think it below them to hunt anything but the trophy tuskers!!

trapping, shooting from choppers n baiting is more is awlays going to be more effective at the start of a program, man n dog will have to clean up whats left.

generally need a dog to find, thats why rifles are problematic - quite hard to shoot safely while dogs are working no matter how good you think you are, a pistol is worse. good bailing dogs do have an "out" of sorts when you want to take a shot.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> is there some snobbery between people that do bite sports and everyone else;
> 
> pigs will move out of / avoid an area by themselves whent here is a lot of hunting going on - doesn't mean they won't return but they definately leave an area being worked if only to go around you.
> 
> ...


 Peter, we are all good. We just get a hint of passion around this board.

Hey Pete, u have any action figures ? (kidding bud)


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Jerry you may have noticed the spotted hound in the gallery pics, the most recent with the deer in the back of the truck. you can see all the pics in the photo/gallery thread here.

have not got any good tail-gate pics with current pup, one i think that can be a bit gay and two thinking of getting a litter before i get to serious am looking for the right stud dog now - just don't know what to do with the rest of the pups n not keen on letting them go out to strangers. pigs here are not the massive half domestic corn fed hogs like in much of the states. they are typically much smaller very quick razor-backs, very fast to the fight.

what sort of dogs you working - dogos i presume??


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

jerry here is a link to the style of "stand alone" dog we have; the original lines invented in the 70's were awesome. some idiots are trying to make them a breed which means overbreeding and selecting for looks = losing working instincts. there are still good ones around. i can't think of too many better dogs for the job. they do both jobs, personally i prefer two differnt dogs for the job though.

http://www.bullarab.com.au/index.php?page=arab-gallery


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I won' take a rifle into the brush and I really have no idea why you guys think a rifle or a pistol is risky, I have been doing this a few days and never came close to a dog and I have had to shoot hogs and bears with the dogs hanging on to them. It's not like your standing 40 yards away behind a tree. Many times the rifle barrel is against the hog. Same with the pistol. What I really have to be carefull of is where the dogs are on the other side so they don't get hit by an exiting bullet. Most of this close in shooting is instictive and usually within 5 ft so I am not looking at the sights at all but looking at where the dogs are. 

Where it is real risky is when you take someone with you. You don't know if they are going to wig out and just start shooting...and there are a bunch of people that do get buck fever believe me.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I have never hunted any other breed with my dogs. Don't want to have to keep multiple breeds to do a job one breed can do. I hunted for years behind hounds and I would rather throw to dog crated in the truck and load two dogs, Maybe a young one in the front seat.....and get to it. With two dogs I seldom spend much time looking for them.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Peter, I thought your name was familiar, Your on the Aussie site. The Bull Arabs seem to be a neet breed and I would love to see them work, but, I doubt I will ever get to.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

cheers that Don, just differnt styles. adrenaline n lots of people with guns in thick brush is always going to be a problem. despite the advanatges/disadvantages arguments on a purely sporting scale; dog , man, boar, knife has to rate way up there. even better on your own far from any back.

Don what did you think of the dogs in the link - just a pic i know.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Pete Stevens said:


> They were definetly playing to the camera. The relocation theory is complete waste of time. Go after the sows so they can't reproduce. Except here in California, the boars will just marry and adopt a piglet from a 3rd world nation.


 that was great


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

you beat me to the post. yeah the line is as close as it gets to dual purpose find / catch. there's a commercial vid of some that went to the states one dog took down a boar that already killed three good local dogs. 

still like yr A'dales i just never seen a real one.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I saw one show where the guy was using a great dane. I was impressed by that. I don't ever recall a dane doing real work. Anybody do this type of hunting near Jersey . I would love to go and watch some dogs work.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Liked what I saw Peter. Liked the narrow set straight front legs. liked the broader, wide set rear end. Liked the top line. Dogs are built to cover some ground. The one that looks to have some blue tic in him has the flatest topline from what I see. Curious Peter, how tall do these dogs average?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

never seen a dane work, i am told the original danes were about the size of a dogo, maybe slightly a bit taller.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Don here is the proposed standard. keep in mind they are not a breed yet - hopefully never will be. 

no sane person discounts a good working dog because it doesn't match the standard. only breed destroying AKC types do that rubbish.

sorry about the metric, note they have not specified a weight range.

i have spoken to the original inventor, he did outcross to greyhounds, the line/breed is bred for top speed. i think they would make great coyote hunting dogs - speed + stopping power. although i have no idea what coyote hunting is about?

*HEIGHT & WEIGHT 
*Height range: Males 63 - 69cm Females 61 -66cm 
Weight range: 
Males Females 
These are a guide only, balance in a dog is considered more important than falling within guidelines.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

while on this thread does anyone know what happenned to bull terriers they were everywhere when i was a kid, insane prey drive and tenacity. quite dangerous dogs to have around. i haven't seen one in years. they wre obviously a bit lacking in the top speed dept but were used a lot in out crossing mix lines?? just askin.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> while on this thread does anyone know what happenned to bull terriers they were everywhere when i was a kid, insane prey drive and tenacity. quite dangerous dogs to have around. i haven't seen one in years. they wre obviously a bit lacking in the top speed dept but were used a lot in out crossing mix lines?? just askin.



The show world got them! 
I was fairly active showing one back in the 80s and even then I very rarely saw even a pet quality White Bull Terrier. 
My wife thought it was the dumbest dog she had ever seen and if I ever brought one home for real there would be some serious decisions for me to make. She was joking but she meant it about the dumbest. :lol: 
I had this one at the house while I was showing it for someone else.
The Spuds Mckensy beer dog made them popular for a short time but even then I think most people recognized them as a pia to work with and train.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

am staff V pit bull are they the same breed??


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Jerry you may have noticed the spotted hound in the gallery pics, the most recent with the deer in the back of the truck. you can see all the pics in the photo/gallery thread here.
> 
> have not got any good tail-gate pics with current pup, one i think that can be a bit gay and two thinking of getting a litter before i get to serious am looking for the right stud dog now - just don't know what to do with the rest of the pups n not keen on letting them go out to strangers. pigs here are not the massive half domestic corn fed hogs like in much of the states. they are typically much smaller very quick razor-backs, very fast to the fight.
> 
> what sort of dogs you working - dogos i presume??


I do not have any dogos, love to but is really impractical for me. I live 60 miles north of Toronto Ontario Canada. Wild pigs are not a native species in all of Canada. I have to leave the country to get the fix.

Pen hunting is also illegal here in Ontario.

I have multiple Malinois, Dutchies, GSD and a old wire haired pointer. I did have a pos Am Bulldog/ pit. Long gone and useless. Ran from the first pig I showed it.

I do though have a better than average connection to good hunting Dogos.

My first intro to them I competed in Ringsport against a dogo named Gator owned by Karrolyn Harris. This dog was historic in N/A attaining a Ring II. The highest rated dogo in ring ever here. I stood in awe watching Gator destroy the trial decoys one by one. Being a trial decoy myself. I was very impressed with this first experience watching him work. Thanking God I was competing against the dog and not having to fight him. He did hurt both decoys that day in California.

The next good one was Samson owned by Arron Borenstein. I was a part of this dogs coaching team. He attained a Sch III. Another record in North America.

Where I really learned about boar dogos was from Dr. Victor Valino. He has since passed away. Prior to his death he wrote a book named " The Real History of El Dogo Argentino "

Victor was not only an avid Hunter of wild boar and a breeder of Dogos. He was a FCI Judge of working dogs licenced to judge worldwide. He had a fci assignment in Canada and he fereted me out.

Back in those days I had a very good run in Ringsport, setting several records and a few spots on the champion podium with two different malinois. Rocky and Axel. These were the dogs Dr. Valino observed that day.

Dr. Valino wanted to witness good ringsport and requested a afternoon checking out my dogs. He was interested in introducing Ring to Argentina.

As we said our goodbyes that afternoon he gave me a signed copy of his book in English.

The rest is history. I am in Argentina shortly after the season begins down there this year.

AND yes, a decent pack of Dogos can stand alone. They need no curs. In North America, the United States there simply is no one I know who can keep a pack of dogos and maintain them correctly. My experiece with U.S Pig hunting the tradition surrounds curs to find and corral and many different breeds have been used for the catch. Today though there are many more American Hunters keeping two Dogos for the catch.

I have a few buds who hunt the everglades from when I lived in South Beach and they swear on their pit crosses. More often they use a side arm to finish the glades pig not a knife. You need a gun there. You never know if your going to find a gator or snake before you hear the squeal.

regards


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

"More often they use a side arm to finish More often they use a side arm to..."

Jerry a sidearm has differnt meaning to differnt people - what do you refer to here?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> "More often they use a side arm to finish More often they use a side arm to..."
> 
> Jerry a sidearm has differnt meaning to differnt people - what do you refer to here?


I assume a big handgun...could be wrong...


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> I have a few buds who hunt the everglades from when I lived in South Beach and they swear on their pit crosses.


Just out of curiousity, what do they usually cross the pit with?


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## Kristin Jakubczak (Jan 17, 2011)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> am staff V pit bull are they the same breed??



At one time they were, but not anymore. Way back when the AKC came about they wouldn't register the American Pit Bull Terrier because they didn't want people thinking they supported fighting. So they took an American Pit Bull Terrier (a Colby dog) and based the American Staffordshire Terrier's breed standard after him. Then the dog show (Am. Staff) people just bred their dogs for looks. So, the AKC denies that the American Pit Bull Terrier even exists even though;
-The Am. Staff's standard is based off of one. 
-If you look far back enough in a Am. Staffs pedigree your gonna see "Colby" and "Gas House" two of the oldest American Pit Bull Terrier bloodlines.
-The first registered Am. Staff, was a American Pit Bull Terrier. Pete the pup (Lucenay's Peter) from the Little Rascal shows to be exact!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

There were actually 12 different Pete dogs used during the yrs of The Little Rascles (Our Gang) show.
They couldn't even get the eye patch correct from one episode to another. One time on the left, another time on the right.


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## Kristin Jakubczak (Jan 17, 2011)

Bob Scott said:


> There were actually 12 different Pete dogs used during the yrs of The Little Rascles (Our Gang) show.
> They couldn't even get the eye patch correct from one episode to another. One time on the left, another time on the right.


Yup, but this first one to be a registered Am. Staff was Lunecy's Peter.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've heard that he was dual registered in both AKC and UKC. You know anything about that?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

thats funny about the history, hillarious actually n here's why. pit bulls are banned dog breed in my country along with about 4/5 other breeds - yet you can buy an Am staff easily and legally HAHAHA thats great, do you see the funny bit??

i'm importing a dogo now as a result of this (another banned breed here) anyone here - WDF- interested in selling me one and putting , i don't know ...SOUTH American Staff. on the import papers HAHAHA.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

the funny bit was banning a breed that doesn't exist, 

local council; we are taking yr dog away to be destroyed 

owner; why

its a pit bull, which is banned

is not a pit bull i can prove it

how 

that breed you mentioned doesn't exist

told ya it was funny...unless it's your dog getting the green dream on account of it's breed name


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## Kristin Jakubczak (Jan 17, 2011)

Bob Scott said:


> I've heard that he was dual registered in both AKC and UKC. You know anything about that?


Yeah that is true. Back then UKC actually had game dogs, not like today where majority are still dual registered Am. Staffs.


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