# how do you tug with your dog ?



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

since i've been on this list i've seen lots of vid clips, and based on them, maybe i'm doing a lot of things wrong, so i'd like some opinions ...
disclaimers :
1. spare the basics of stimulating prey drive etc ...i'm assuming the dog has enuff
2. please make your answers specific

my basic "tug rules" :
1. i always make the dog go to the tug to engage/target/grip. the more aggressively, the better ... i never feed it to the dog or place it in their mouth.....if it won't, i back up to chasing fluffs
2. if i'm using a line or FP i never let a dog pick up a dead tug laying on the ground
3. i try and always be moving away from the dog ... i never tug in one spot and gradually open up our distance from where i start the dog from...when tugging i'm usually backing away from the dog
4. if i toss it, i always want the dog to retrieve and fight with me; never run off with it ... if that happens the rug goes on a line until it won't run with it
5. i want to always end every tug fight with an out.....and if the dog is possessive i will have a spare with me rather than force the out. if that doesn't work, session is over
6. i will use different materials in a specific order....meaning once a fluff gets hi interest, it's gone .... once a soft tug gets easy i switch to firmer smoother surfaces that are harder to grip, but no matter what type i want the dog to target the middle of the tug and will always grip it with both hands when tugging even if i'm using a FP or tug lead
7. once prey drive is clearly there, i will always make each rep start with some type of OB and send the dog to the tug vice have the dog react to the tug to engage...will also throw in OB while tugging to maintain control, but try and make each fight a rep that has a start and stop point
8. i will only give verbal praise when the dog is actively fighting/gripping; never when stationary and chewing

what am i doing wrong and what should i add or delete to be more effective ?


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Providing video would benefit you the most. Technique is as or more important than rules.

You kinda mentioned it, but start and stop each exercise with a verbal start/stop.

Different materials but not in any order. Say the dog likes a jute tug, and you switch to bite suit material, but the dogs not as amped up for it. I'd use it twice and switch back to the jute for a session or two, then back to the bite suit material, the idea being to not have the dogs drive reduced by the bite suit material.

If the dogs possessing the tug, then maybe use two tugs instead of the long line. Your required to be more fun than possessing the tug.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Rick what are you trying to correct? Sounds like your doing fine to me. 

Is the dogs possessiveness what your trying to overcome or?


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Most of mine are tug freaks. I always give and take while playing tug. I adapt pressure to the dog I am playing with. They are all different, but I try and keep the tug engaged but no yanking. I will out and send the dog over an obstacle and then straight back on to the tug. If I throw I expect the dog to race back to engage with me again.

I move around alot with the dog and tugg. I always make sure the dog has a very firm grip.

I use different textures in no particular order. My dogs love their udder tugs but I also make sheep skin tugs myself. They also like the thick plaited rope tugs.

I grip with one hand, but I have BCs and kelpies. The only dogs I sometimes use a double handed grip with are my cattle dogs. I shout at them if they grip too close to my hand which my BC wants to do as he sometimes gets my hand as well, little bugger.

I make lots of noise with my dogs when they are in full tug. I generally use tugging as a reward, but will sometimes just play with them, but only in the context of agility training. They get very excited when I bring out the tugs and race over to the agility area.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

rick smith said:


> ...my basic "tug rules" :
> 1.* i always make the dog go to the tug to engage/target/grip.* the more aggressively, the better ... i never feed it to the dog or place it in their mouth.....


 Sounds spot-on...not feeding the tug. You didn't say IF you were working it in defense or prey and how the rest of your body mechanics are working...looking into the dog's face, body contact once it is on the tug, verbals...

If the dog doesn't bite it in a side movement, shoving it in the mouth is nothing more than defense. Working the tug BACKWARDS and having the dog drive into the tug and then winning it is a techique we also use.

Can't put 20 ounces into a 12 ounce bottle...the dog has it, is interested, or you move on!=;


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

rick smith said:


> since i've been on this list i've seen lots of vid clips, and based on them, maybe i'm doing a lot of things wrong, so i'd like some opinions ...
> disclaimers :
> 1. spare the basics of stimulating prey drive etc ...i'm assuming the dog has enuff
> 2. please make your answers specific
> ...


This all depends on the dog. I never stimulate a dog. That is, I do not want to teach the dog that I make the first move. The dog does. I want the dog to show drive for the toy.... THen I react to the dogs drive. Otherwise you have a dog that is always waiting for some sort of stimulation. Show me something. 

I do not move the toy for the same reason. I do not back up. When I give a bite, I want them to do it on command not on motion. Also, I do not want the dog reacting to stimulation. I would back up for a dog with lesser drive....what else can you do for a dog with lower drive. But I think either a dog punches or he does not. For my sport.... The man always moves into the dog in a trial so, I guess you can trick them in training to come forward by backing up but...I would rather not evoke it, I would just rather a dog do it. 

I never end a session on a out. I tell them done. I do not ever want the dog to think out means the game is over. Out means the game will begin shortly after you let you go. 

as for grip and material. I work the opposite. I start with leather, than rolled leather thats hard...when the dog is biting that hard...I will go to something softer. But again, I really think you can only foster hard griping in a dog that has a genetics for it. I never worry if the dog is chewing on a toy that I do not have in my hand. I think the chewing is a tension release for the dog. And that's what letting them have it is suppose to be. I never seen a dog with a good grip while on a toy that someone is holding, lose the grip because they were allowed to chew it on the ground.

And I do not play "the game" the one where you tell the dog to get it, and then move it just as the dgo is suppose to get it. I think that makes a lot of trust issues. I just told them they could have it, and now I am playing you can't it? I think this makes dogs reluctant to out later. 

As for fighting with the toy, again, I want the dog to start the fight. So, I go still and when they show me something, I begin the fight. I react to the dog, not the dog reacting to me.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My older dog doesn't need any stimulation for the tug. If he sees it in my back pocket I'm gonna be taken down if I don't tell him to leave it. 
I don't have a problem letting him take it off the ground. It's his reward and it doesn't always come from me. I may do a lot of behaviors before I mark and reward. The reward could be on the ground, a table, etc. he know it's fair game where ever it is when I give the "yes" marker.
On the out I want him to back off the tug. My hands stay in place.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i should have been clearer ... i'm only talking about tug playing not rewarding with a tug as a reward...i toss them all the time for that too and of course they have to pick it up to get it 

James : you're comments were interesting .. will get back to you; have some Q's 
(plse reread the part about ending tug fights with an out ... i wasn't referring to needing the session with an out ... probably wasn't clear there either)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

rick smith said:


> i should have been clearer ... i'm only talking about tug playing not rewarding with a tug as a reward...i toss them all the time for that too and of course they have to pick it up to get it
> 
> James : you're comments were interesting .. will get back to you; have some Q's
> (plse reread the part about ending tug fights with an out ... i wasn't referring to needing the session with an out ... probably wasn't clear there either)



Understood!
If the dog is just "playing" with it then that's on us for leaving it in a place they have access to!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> my basic "tug rules" :
> 
> 1. i always make the dog go to the tug to engage/target/grip. * the more aggressively, the better ...*




For me there is a very distinct (BIG) difference in using the tug for a reward, and just playing with it, I mean there is a big difference in how the dog reacts. This came about over time....

Just playing with it, is an invitation for some old fashioned wrastlin', with a buddy...and we all know that usually gets out of hand, sometimes sooner than later... 

The tug if used for just horsing around/ playing is a clear signal to the dog that she can push me around and she gets fairly aggressive as long as there is no biting....which is fine for me... it is pretty clear when it is time to do some more OB or quit playing....

if training is being done, and the tug is used for a reward, the dog gets it, and is more more in focused straight prey.


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