# Here's your chance to be creative!



## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

For the first time, the Belgian Malinois will have a breed booth at the AKC's Meet the Breeds (Javits Center, NYC, Nov 19-20 10am-5pm). I'm doing the "decorations" such as they are, and my idea is to do a newspaper classifieds section for Jobs Wanted and Help Wanted. That way we can both show how versatile the Mal is, and reinforce the idea that they MUST have a job. 

So - can you help me write the ads? Here's two examples:

(Herding) "Steely-eyed quick thinker needed to round up fuzzy bleating things. Ankle-nipping experience a plus."

(Flyball) "WHO WANTS THE BALL?! I do! I do! Down and back in 4.2 seconds, I "fly" over the course, now I just need a handler and team. Please have your own gloves, sometimes I miss the tug."

I need all kinds of ads, funny or cute is good but not strictly necessary. This is a family event so it has to be something you would read to a six-year-old, though. Likewise, even if you think that a particular sport is the dog-world equivalent of ice dancing, keep it positive. 

I'd like to include all the things Malinois can do, so that covers a lot of territory: Police work, military, protection sports, agility, flyball, herding, disc dog, lure coursing, nosework, search & rescue, service dog, and probably at least sixteen others I'm forgetting. 

Finally, if you're in the tri-state area and would like to bring a social Mal down to help staff the booth, we could use a few more! Otherwise Trixie will have to meet all 30,000 people herself )

Thanks!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Is Trixie social?


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Is Trixie social?


Trixie's picture is in the dictionary next to social. She LOVES Meet the Breeds - we've been both prior years for the flyball demos and I think Trixie was petted by at least 1000 people. She knows to be more gentle with smaller kids and is a peach all around. (Which isn't to say she'd let any of them come into our car or backyard, though.)

She likes other dogs as well, although she believes she is in charge of all of them. Nothing that would be a problem in the booth - and there's crating space so we can switch out dogs. The other dogs that come to MTB are pretty much in the booths or demos, so a dog that doesn't like other dogs could still work. However it is a madhouse of people, and many of them literally do not know the first thing about dogs, so you have to watch to make sure no one lets their toddler sit on your dog, kwim?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Jennifer :
the way you have described her, Trixie sounds like the perfect PPD... a social butterfly in public but aggressive to trespassers 
Was she born that way (genetics) or did she require training ?
** I sure hope you point that out and don't give the impression that is common for the breed

if you are going to work the booth and not just decorate it, I also hope you point out :
1. they would probably not be a good dog for a first time pet owner
2. that the vast majority of well bred Malinois are bred for serious working jobs and not as family pets
3. that dedicated breeders have no intention of developing an AKC Malinois show line

how bout this one :
Job : wanted // personal protector 
Ad : "My name is Stars and that's what you will see if you try and get in my Mama's car"


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

You could also include a "personals" section.

'Rugged, intelligent Belgian Malinois seeks active experienced companion. Couch-Potatoes need not apply. Likes running, running. hiking, running, work, biking, running, barking, more work and tennis balls. No dogs."

Add and subtract traits as necessary.


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

Good points, Rick. I will indeed be working the booth. I've had Trixie for 4 years, plus I have a foster Mal, and we have a reasonably high-drive Doberman, so I'm not a complete noob, but advice is welcome! I certainly don't have the experience of others on this forum.

I do expect to spend a lot of time explaining that you do not want this dog. I was trying to put a slightly different spin on it, since so many breeds use the "this is not a dog for everyone" line (does such a breed exist?). I think one thing to highlight is the inherit "mouthiness" of the breed. Surely I'm not the only one who finds myself saying, "Well, she didn't really bite you, she was just nibbling at your clothes in excitement." (The six year old was not impressed.) And the natural protectiveness - I have had to repeatedly tell the landscape crew chief that if the dogs are in the yard, do NOT OPEN THE GATE. I mean, I admire the man's cohones, he's willing to open the gate to a snarling, barking, hackles-up Mal jumping 2ft above the 4ft gate, but I can't believe he doesn't think she's serious. 

That's actually a question I have - I kid her that she is going to be kicked out of the breed because she's so friendly, but I have met several working and FR Mals that are also very social. However I plan to tell folks that, in general, this is not a Labrador, and most of them are not this naturally friendly. Feel free to discuss.

I don't know how Trixie would do in a true emergency situation as a PPD. I'm reasonably confident she would hate FR, as she doesn't like to be wrong. She plays flyball (she's hella good) but when the picture doesn't look exactly right, she spins in frustration because (I think) she doesn't want to upset Mommy. 

Anyway enough about my precious. I'm copying and pasting your ad! Keep them coming -


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

Ha! Very nice, excellent idea.

Was also thinking of items such as "Police continue to investigate the disappearance of several neighborhood squirrels." 



Charlotte Hince said:


> You could also include a "personals" section.
> 
> 'Rugged, intelligent Belgian Malinois seeks active experienced companion. Couch-Potatoes need not apply. Likes running, running. hiking, running, work, biking, running, barking, more work and tennis balls. No dogs."
> 
> Add and subtract traits as necessary.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Well, they could have called my tomcat in for that!!


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Emphasize things like they are for Type A people who love to train all day, 7-days a week, and who are marathon runners that easily put in 3-5 mile runs every day. 

I'm just afraid that even if you keep telling them that breed if for experienced, active homes, seeing a friendly, social, calm Malinois sitting there is going to make them think, "Oh! I want a Malinois too! Just like yours! She' soo pretty!" 

Maybe include some photos/videos of them doing bitework and looking not so family friendly. I find that even when you try to tell people that the breed might not be for them, everybody seems to think they at they are "unique" and different from all the others.. and they think that all of your "warnings" don't apply for them. Tell them about all the stories of puppies and young dogs being returned to breeders because they are "too much dog." Tell them about all of the dogs that end up in shelters and with rescue groups because once they become teenagers the owners freak out and can't handle them. Emphasize that training is never ending, and it's just as important (if not MORE important) for the owner than the dog. It's not simply a matter of taking their dog to puppy classes, it's a lifestyle of forever learning, training, and exercising your dog.

I don't know, I'm just kind of skeptical of it all when it comes to the general public and being dog savvy. If you can educate some of them and if they take it to heart, then you are doing a wonderful thing. I just find that when I try to educate the general public, it goes in one ear and out the other.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Seeing AKC and Mal in the same sentence scares the hell outta me ..


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I think you should go with the obi wan kenobi quote from star wars. "Theses are not the dogs(droids) you are looking for" ( if you want a show,lap or non working dogs).


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

I second Erica...I don't think Malinois need a spotlight, particularly after their Seal spotlight in the spring. They people that are qualified to own this breed will be exposed to it through their working dog journey.

It goes something like this:
"He's a Malinois and the reason you haven't seen one before is because they don't make good pets."

"Well why do you have one?"

"Because I work him for hours every day and compete in sports. They need an experienced owner."

"Oh, well he's the most purtyest dog I've ever seen, I've had dogs all my life."

"They really need an experienced working home."

"He's pretty and I've had dogs all my life."

"](*,)"


Now I tell people he's a dingo or coyote.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Brian Anderson said:


> Seeing AKC and Mal in the same sentence scares the hell outta me ..



LOL I totally agree!


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

The latest one that I've heard... A 12 week old Malinois pup (or maybe it was younger) being returned from a supposed "working home" because it was "too much" dog. 



I'm sure we can all tell more stories just like this.


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

I'll put the NARA ringsport highlight video on continuous loop, you bet. 

Perhaps I should make up a rap sheet for Trixie. I won't list all her accomplishments here, but her latest WIN was over one of those plastic/wire combo crates. There was also the infamous time she stole the contractor's circular saw and hid it in the backyard. Also, while I don't know which Mal was responsible, I about died the day my son showed off his bruised arm at kindergarten. Silly kid ran from a snake in the backyard _while holding a tennis ball_. 

One of the other issues I'm not sure how to word appropriately is that well, you can't be one of those people who says "No, do don't that" in the "awww mommy wuvvs her puppeh" voice. My dogs totally have my mom and MIL pegged and don't listen to a word either one of them say. 

Of course, I could just get the picture of the paratrooper with his Mal strapped on and label it, "If you aren't willing to jump out of a plane with him strapped to you...keep walkin'." 

I'm betting that a booth with information is better than no booth. I could be totally wrong. I can send out a heads-up to the tri-state area Mal breeders and rescuers.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Where/when is meet the breeds? I've never been but people always expect me to.


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

Well, I'm starting to understand why there was no Mal booth the first two years LOL. 
With due respect - the forms are in, the box is locked, the lights are on - the AKC is expecting us, so I'll be there. I think people will be looking for the breed after its exposure this year, and I can explain that really, it's not a bunch of hype. This is a serious, hard-core dog.

I like that wording though - "qualified to have this breed." Is there a written test? I expect I'd be on the learner's permit program.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Jennifer Bale-O'Connell said:


> I like that wording though - "qualified to have this breed." Is there a written test? I expect I'd be on the learner's permit program.


Sorry, they really are the best dog that ever walked the earth and everyone should have one. You know what, make it a whole pack. We can all do pack walks together.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

I put it this way. The things that make this breed great for ME make it horrible for "YOU".

Bite first, ask questions second.
Faster than lightening.
Protectors.
Easy to train - works for OR against you.
Sensitive to motivation - I work with it instead of against it.
Will tear your house - or you - apart if not exercised.
Will "go" until you make them stop.
Wants to be with you 24/7, will probably stress if/when you go away on holiday?
May not be able to be handled by anyone else but primary owner.
Is a one-person dog, NOT for a whole family.

Is that really what the average dog lover WANTS to live with? NO!!! Will they listen to you when you try to explain that? NO!!! They see a pretty dog so they want it, they want it now, and for cheap.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

personally the more I think about it, the more I don't think you should make the info so "cutesy" and try so hard to put a smile on people's faces to get interest in this breed. it doesn't need that kind of attention and exposure to the types of people I suspect will be attending this event. 

imo, most people select a dog based on looks more than anything else.
anyway, will there be a APBT booth ? if so you should be right next to it
- hope it's not in alphabetical order and you are next to the Maltese

I don't want to start an AKC thread on top of this but imnsho they have done more bad than good for dogs of ALL breeds, regardless of their original intentions...not all bad; just mostly bad .... there; i had to say it :-(

I can tell in about 2 min if a person who starts asking me about "working dogs" should ever own one, especially when they start telling me the stories of all the dogs they owned in the past ... most shouldn't, so when those types show up how can you be honest with them ?? 
- because of that, I think you should already have some other "working breeds" in mind you could steer those people towards ... like maybe a golden retriever ... or Boz Shepherd ?? (couldn't resist)


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

We have a really nice couple who just starting training with our French Ring group. They are new to working dogs and just got their first Malinois. (He's a great match for them, super social, dog friendly, totally wants to please his owners, etc.) The wife kept telling me how much she loved watching Bacci work, and I think she was thinking it would be nice to have a dog like him. I've had others see him work, doing obedience, etc., and say they'd like to have a dog like him. When I tell them stories about what I went through when Bacci was a pup, what I went through when he entered his "teens," etc., they quickly realize that perhaps that type of dog is not the kind of dog for them. When they see a trained "end product" that looks friendly, obedient, responsive, etc., they frequently have no idea what it took to get the dog to that point. After telling stories about Bacci as a pup, the stories seemed to help open up their eyes. So maybe when you meet people at the booth, sharing some of these stories, the not so pleasant ones that we encounter while raising these dogs, might help shed a little light on the picture. I found that adding this information to the bigger picture really helped open up this individual's eyes. I agree a "cutesy" approach is not the way to go. When I talk about the breed to people who are not into sport/working dogs, I'm completely serious when describing what it means to own a high dive, serious working breed.

I've been on both sides of the learning curve. I owned Dobes for 10+ years before getting my Malinois. I heard all the stories about what it means to own a working line Malinois. I, like many others, was overly confident in my own skills. I was thinking, "yeah, yeah, yeah.. but I'm different. I've been into dogs for years! I've owned Dobermans, a working breed!" Well, after I got my Malinois, I realized that I really didn't have a clue. People could talk and talk and talk, but nothing really prepared me for seeing what it's REALLY like to live with, work, and train such a dog. Thank God I had a French Ring club and some WONDERFUL, experienced trainers to support me through those first 18 months. I've learned soooooo much, and the learning is never-ending.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

One thing you could do, since you are going with a job theme, is put together resumes on dogs, wether they are real or fictional.

Something like

1/1/2011 - I was born
1/2/2011 - 3/2/2011 - I lived with my mom and littermates at my breeders
3/3/2011 - 9/15/2011 (whatever dates, just tossing examples in there)
* Interior Decorator - tore holes in the couch cushins and left stuffing all over the floor
* Construction - ate through the drywall when I was left in the bathroom
* Landscaping - dug craters in the back yard and pulled up plants, moving them to new locations
* Clothing Designer - created holes in all of my owners pants, and many of their shirts
* EMT - helped apply bandages and other medical care neccessary for puncture wounds created while designing clothes

Then something about becoming a long distance runner, going jogging X miles per day with the owner, enrolling in training classes, etc. Emphasizing the level of exercise needed, how much time is spent per day or week training, and moving on to the success of a few titles towards the end of the resume.

It's cute, but at the same time really makes people go "hmmmm".

Or you could do a "day in the life of a Malinois" and just go through a day, once again pointing out the exercise and training needed. 

I've done a few of these booths at Eukanuba, in my area there are always Mal, Terv and Groen people doing the booths, I like to take a few working Malinois so people get to meet dogs who are a little more "jacked" than some of the performance/conformation bred dogs. Gives a little more even impression of the breed. And I don't insist the dogs are on their best behavior. I don't allow them to do anything dangerous of course, but I do things like play tug, or let them go after a ball in the booth, stuff that in a small confined space can still give people a small impression of the energy and reflexes these dogs have. More than one person has seen just a fraction of the intensity the dogs can have in that small space and decided that although they liked the look, they were going to continue looking for another breed.

I also try to make sure there are plenty of pictures in the booth of dogs doing things like the palisade, hurdle, and long jump so people realize a 4 foot fence isn't going to contain these guys, not unless the dog chooses to stay behind it.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i like Kadis approach !

I have another "stupid trick" i've taught my dog when people approach me when he's down and acting like a sleeping lab and i want them to go away .....might work to show fast reflexes 
he learned to HATE (or maybe love) when i blow into an empty plastic bottle ... as soon as he hears the sound he will bark, pounce and destroy it in seconds (but will out the scrap) ... anytime i have my vest on i will keep a spare empty one in the back tug pocket ... works great

i'm sure there are mals that would do this as easily as grab a tug and the crackling really gets people's attention....just gotta make sure they can grab it quick and not just push it around or people REALLY scatter


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> One thing you could do, since you are going with a job theme, is put together resumes on dogs, wether they are real or fictional.


Thanks, this is a great idea. What I'm trying to do here, as you did, is get something funny or clever or visually arresting enough that *people will keep reading it*. I guarantee you, there will be a number of breeds taking the whole "not a good dog for you" "you don't want one" tactic. After you've been around the floor a bit, it's meaningless. So let's show them. Spell it out. I'll have the computer showing a slide show of pictures; I could intersperse what I like to call #lifewithmalinois (as if it were a Twitter hash tag) anecdotes, photos of my ripped favorite pair of jeans, my ripped second-favorite pair of jeans, the teeth marks in our lawn furniture, the dead squirrel that was dropped by the back door, etc.

My point isn't to be cutesy to attract people over. It's to be clever and funny enough to get the stuff read and possibly, maybe, one iota of it to stick with them. I honestly believe that has a chance, at least, of being more effective than your standard "This is not the breed for everyone" lines. 

And Jackie, I wasn't trying to make fun of you. I honestly thought "qualified to own one" was well-put. I'm a photographer because I'm not so good with the words. I apologize for sounding snarky.

Trixie will be doing the flyball demo, and I can certainly show off her more manic side. I've got one Ring person talked into coming, too. 

Couple of people have asked, so I'll repeat (I think it's in the OP) - 
AKC Meet the Breeds - Javits Center, NYC - Nov. 19-20 10am-5pm

It's alphabetical so we'll be next to the Belgian Sheepdog folks. Also, the Cat Fanciers' Association is, I kid you not, showcasing all the cat breeds on the other side of the exhibition hall. 

Here's Trixie and Rockit at last year's MTB:
[url=http://jbale.smugmug.com/2010-AKC-Meet-the-Breeds/Candid/14255343_KmJLf9#1053807416_hXLLk-A-LB][/URL]


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

The beginning of the end for the Malinois is well behind us now.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> The beginning of the end for the Malinois is well behind us now.


YEP!!


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

I like Kadi's idea too. The stories and examples highlight much more than the simple, "This dog is only for experienced people." I'm sure most of the people there will think they are experienced.

There are some awesome photos floating around, many on Facebook, illustrating tugging "slip-ups" where the dog bites a person's hand/finger instead of the tug. Wonder how a few of those pictures would be received.  Or what about all the bruises a decoy gets UNDER the suit, even with all of that protection....


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> The beginning of the end for the Malinois is well behind us now.


Hey, where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket??!

Just doin' my part to help out. Next, I will post pictures of a Malinois wearing pink butterfly wings.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> The beginning of the end for the Malinois is well behind us now.


Don't fear. The Dutch Shepherd is nipping at their heels.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

The AKC has done more damage to dogs than anything out there. Id much rather see a dog in pink butterfly wings than it being recognized by the AKC or any other kennel club. Its easer to take off the wings then it is to rebuild all the breeds they wreaked. 
And to prove it here is my dog on Halloween… one of my daughters was a farmer.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

I heard at the Doberman Nationals this year they had a bunch of Dobes, showline Dobes, hanging out in pink tutus.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Throwing out some ideas...

Malinois - the dog that will give new meaning to crazy.

Tired of your couch potato lifestyle? The relentless enthusiasm and tireless antics of your new Malinois will motivate you to give up your sedentary ways and embrace a new active lifestyle. Failure to respond may be met with incessant barking.

Mental Growth. Bored? Understimulated? A Malinois will inspire and encourage you to use your brain and come up with new and fun ways to train. Just try to stay one step ahead!

Need to get a jump on the day? Sleeping in can be a thing of the past with your new Malinois alarm clock.

Malinois - the dog that will make your friend's shake their heads and say Wow, how do you live with that?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Erica Boling said:


> I've been on both sides of the learning curve. I owned Dobes for 10+ years before getting my Malinois. I heard all the stories about what it means to own a working line Malinois. I, like many others, was overly confident in my own skills. I was thinking, "yeah, yeah, yeah.. but I'm different. I've been into dogs for years! I've owned Dobermans, a working breed!" Well, after I got my Malinois, I realized that I really didn't have a clue. People could talk and talk and talk, but nothing really prepared me for seeing what it's REALLY like to live with, work, and train such a dog. Thank God I had a French Ring club and some WONDERFUL, experienced trainers to support me through those first 18 months. I've learned soooooo much, and the learning is never-ending.


Hey Erica, did you post on that one thread about a month or so ago about the one who had experience with a "working line" Dobe who was a pet, but wanted a Mal for agility for her first performance dog? I told her my honest opinion that these can be very difficult dogs and OMG, I was being so elitist for my opinion. [-X I was kinda lucky. I started with a Mal/GSD X back in 2005, then fostered (and kept) a fairly low key (for a Mal) adult female from Malinois rescue in early 2007, THEN I got a straight working lines pup in mid 2007. If I hadn't had a couple year buffer, I would have been driven crazy! And he's really a pretty good house dog even.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> The AKC has done more damage to dogs than anything out there.


Really? They have done more than the breeders that breed the dogs? How?

Blaming the AKC for dogs being bad is like blaming the department of motor vehicles when a car is a lemon.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> Throwing out some ideas...
> 
> Malinois - the dog that will give new meaning to crazy.
> 
> ...


Great suggestions! 8)


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Really? They have done more than the breeders that breed the dogs? How?
> 
> Blaming the AKC for dogs being bad is like blaming the department of motor vehicles when a car is a lemon.


The breeders are breading the dog to standards to make money. Who makes the standards they breed to? If it wasn’t for the standards they might just be breeding good dogs? If you don’t get it I won’t be able to make you understand. Just keep on believing what you want.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> The breeders are breading the dog to standards to make money. Who makes the standards they breed to? If it wasn’t for the standards they might just be breeding good dogs? If you don’t get it I won’t be able to make you understand. Just keep on believing what you want.


The breed standards are made by the breed clubs, not the AKC. 

Do you have any other reasons? Make sure you fact check this time. :-D


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> The breed standards are made by the breed clubs, not the AKC.
> 
> Do you have any other reasons? Make sure you fact check this time. :-D


What are these? Pick a breed: http://www.akc.org/breeds/affenpinscher/

It's the kennel clubs, judges, breeders, BUYERS!, breed clubs, and everyone else involved with these dogs.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Your right, In one of my posts I did say any kennel club, I should have said any standards by any club. Why you think the AKC is good for dogs?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Your right, In one of my posts I did say any kennel club, I should have said any standards by any club.




Without standards it's impossible to have breeds. What's the difference between a Poodle and a Rottweiler?




> Why you think the AKC is good for dogs?


Did I say that? Remember to fact check!\\/


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Hey Erica, did you post on that one thread about a month or so ago about the one who had experience with a "working line" Dobe who was a pet, but wanted a Mal for agility for her first performance dog? I told her my honest opinion that these can be very difficult dogs and OMG, I was being so elitist for my opinion. [-X I was kinda lucky. I started with a Mal/GSD X back in 2005, then fostered (and kept) a fairly low key (for a Mal) adult female from Malinois rescue in early 2007, THEN I got a straight working lines pup in mid 2007. If I hadn't had a couple year buffer, I would have been driven crazy! And he's really a pretty good house dog even.


Yep! I remember that thread. I had quite a few conversations with the poster. She's also on one of my Doberman forums and we've chatted quite a bit about Dobes and Mals. I could have gotten another Dobe, but I felt having a home with both a Dobe and a Malinois would be perfect for me. I love both breeds and was up for a challenge, and I certainly got that with my Mal. I actually thought about getting a Malinois more than 12 years ago before I got my first Dobe. However, I was a student living in an apartment. At the time, I didn't feel that the high energy Malinois was the best match for me. Reflecting back, I think it was a good decision I didn't get a Malinois. I wouldn't have been ready back then, unless if it were a lower drive, less dominant Malinois compared to what I have now. My first Dobe was from show lines. I'm probably lucky I didn't end up with a high drive, working line Dobe. I didn't know any better back then.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> What are these? Pick a breed: http://www.akc.org/breeds/affenpinscher/


 Those are breed standards written by breed clubs. 



> It's the kennel clubs, judges, breeders, BUYERS!, breed clubs, and everyone else involved with these dogs.


Well I guess if you name everyone involved with dogs you're bound to be at least partially correct. :razz:


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> Those are breed standards written by breed clubs.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess if you name everyone involved with dogs you're bound to be at least partially correct. :razz:


So would all these dogs be produced if judges weren't picking the "winners" (dogs with serious genetic health issues, can't live cover, or give birth naturally)? Would they be produced if their weren't a market? Or the people actually putting an in heat female and in tact male together. You're saying this would exist if any one of those disappeared?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Without standards it's impossible to have breeds. What's the difference between a Poodle and a Rottweiler?
> 
> 
> Did I say that? Remember to fact check!\\/


Ah got it so you’re saying the standards came first, then the breed? That the breed of the dog did not even exist before the club made the standard for it? I was wrong; I used to think there were “breeds” for a long time before there were club made standards. Thanks for explaining it to me


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> So would all these dogs be produced if judges weren't picking the "winners" (dogs with serious genetic health issues, can't live cover, or give birth naturally)? Would they be produced if their weren't a market? Or the people actually putting an in heat female and in tact male together. You're saying this would exist if any one of those disappeared?


Of course they would still exists, but "all" is nearly an impossible standard. Have you ever heard of "backyard breeders" or "puppy mills"? Are they going to stop breeding if the AKC closed it's doors? 

The number of show dogs is a very small percentage of the overall population. I ask every one of my clients why they got their dog. I have NEVER heard one say, because I saw one in a show. Most of my clients simply saw the breed, liked the way it looked and bought one.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> Of course they would still exists, but "all" is nearly an impossible standard. Have you ever heard of "backyard breeders" or "puppy mills"? Are they going to stop breeding if the AKC closed it's doors?
> 
> The number of show dogs is a very small percentage of the overall population. I ask every one of my clients why they got their dog. I have NEVER heard one say, because I saw one in a show. Most of my clients simply saw the breed, liked the way it looked and bought one.



THAT would be an end results of BUYERS. I bet there would be less buyers if those dogs (BYB / mills) weren't "papered". Especially if those dogs happen to have a relative (g-mom, g-dad, aunt, uncle) that is a champion. Buying puppies is one of two things in my experience...saw, want, bought. Or "I knew someone that had puppies and _insert relative here_ was a champion, so I got a puppy "we might show it". (with "papers", AKC or other, I've seen "papers" that are nothing more than names listed on a sheet of notebook paper, buyer paid $200 more for "papers").

I ask the same thing of my clients. I get the same responses. "I saw, I liked, I bought, now I'm having behavior issues I can't control." Once in a blue moon I get puppy clients wanting to prevent an issue...usually because they went through the above with their last dog, but their process to choosing a dog remains the same.


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

The AKC has fallen down on the whole "papers" issue - no one seems to understand that an AKC registration is no guarantee of anything, really. However they're still only a small part of the problem.

Now, can I talk anybody into submitting more stuff I can use, however futile the efforts may be, at the booth? 

Erika, I'd love to show off some war wounds from Malinois "oops" moments, but as the AKC is billing this as a family event, I expect blood is not a good idea. However I have a flyball tournament this weekend so I'll probably have some nice yellow-green bruises to show off. 

Also the flyball demo ring is far too short, and last year Trixie took out a section of decorative fence as she came flying back at full speed and didn't have enough room to stop.


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## Jami Craig (Jul 5, 2010)

Jennifer Bale-O'Connell said:


> I'd love to show off some war wounds from Malinois "oops" moments, but as the AKC is billing this as a family event, I expect blood is not a good idea. However I have a flyball tournament this weekend so I'll probably have some nice yellow-green bruises to show off.



Can you show a video of a pup completely alone in a crate screaming bloody murder and attacking it's toys....for hours on end? That would ward off a lot of people


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

:idea: Actually they encouraged us to bring puppies over 4 months, so we could do a live show.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Oh, I'm sure you've got some clothing with holes. Wear those! If you don't I'm sure I have some around to donate...my favorite pair of winter pants, actually. :roll:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The best thing that could happen for the Mal at a Meet the Breed AKC event is that it bites a kid, shits on the floor, tries to piss on anyone that walks by and raises such a racket with it's screaming that it's asked to leave.
JMHO of course. :twisted:


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> The best thing that could happen for the Mal at a Meet the Breed AKC event is that it bites a kid, shits on the floor, tries to piss on anyone that walks by and raises such a racket with it's screaming that it's asked to leave.
> JMHO of course. :twisted:


...slipping its leash on the way out, dashing across the exhibit hall to the CFA side, and killing the 9-time national champion Scottish Folded Curly Blue Himalayan cat in a scene that can only be described as "horrific and gory."


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jennifer Bale-O'Connell said:


> ...slipping its leash on the way out, dashing across the exhibit hall to the CFA side, and killing the 9-time national champion Scottish Folded Curly Blue Himalayan cat in a scene that can only be described as "horrific and gory."


I think the biting the kid idea will work better


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

In the spirit of what the OP requested, I wrote a personal ad for my dog.

Good looking, short-haired, brown eyed Belgian seeks an active friend. No couch potatoes please.

I am smart, sensitive and sweet. I can be a clown or I can be tough as nails when the situation demands. I am extremely athletic, with unlimited energy and enthusiasm, though I can be a bit of a nut at times and your friends may think we’re both crazy.

If you like sports, just choose one and I’m up for it. I like to train hard and play hard. We could even do two or three different things – Ring, Schutzhund, obedience, agility, dock diving… you name it, I’m game to try it!

I sometimes play rough with others and can be a bit domineering and overwhelming to gentler souls. I don’t mind living with cats, but I love bunnies and other small creatures. They’re delicious! 

I love long walks on the beach at sunset or just long walks anywhere at anytime. Rain, snow, or blistering heat will not slow me down and I will gently remind you with my incessant barking and crazy antics that we should go for a walk every day. I love to run, play, chase, swim, roll in stinky things and I do everything full on. At the end of a busy day I love nothing more than snuggling on the couch with you.

I will frustrate, annoy, amuse, entertain, challenge and inspire you. I will be your fierce and loyal protector and your best friend. Are you up for it?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

why couldn't we discuss the pros and cons of this idea intelligently with the long term impact on the breed rather than outdo each other with ads ??

plus 100 for Bob's post ....

sorry to be such a downer, but the only thing worse than this booth would be a "modern" sequel to Rin Tin Tin ..... starring a malinois

and PLEEEESE don't put any pups in the booth 

maybe i'm wrong but i'm assuming the target audience in this event will be potential pet owners
"cons" :
-- imnsho, pet owners buy dogs based on what they look like, not based on educating themselves prior to getting one. 
-- pet owners who want a "big dog" often want a "big dog" for the wrong reasons 
-- pet owners who want a dog to "protect" their family usually know NOTHING about canine protection training
-- pet owners are anthropomorphic, before and AFTER their purchase  when you compare a dog breed to human emotions you might just be making this problem worse
-- educating pet owners usually has little effect on what they are doing WRONG with their dog
-- most dogs that are dumped at shelters get there because of behavior problems, and high drive dogs have more "behavior problems" to uninformed anthropomorphic pet owners
-- the people who will understand and appreciate these ads are the people who probably don't need to be informed about the malinois breed in the first place

ok.....where are the "pros" for this idea ???


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

rick smith said:


> ok.....where are the "pros" for this idea ???


Mal people and GSD people will finally have something to commiserate about.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Rick said;
"ok.....where are the "pros" for this idea ???"

Money for the puppy mill breeders that take advantage of the latest fad? 
I've been around long enough to have seen it with Irish Setters, St. Bernards, Aussies, Border Collies, Bull Terriers, JRTs, etc.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> I think the biting the kid idea will work better


To many folks will cheer the whole cat thing. :twisted:


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## Jennifer Bale-O'Connell (Apr 29, 2008)

Hey, if you want to discuss the pros and cons of this idea, go right ahead. But here's the thing - I committed to the event. I'm going. <shrug> 

Malinois are at this event, whether or not there is a booth. There are 2 in the flyball demo, US Customs does a demo with one, and the US Police K9 Association sometimes has one in their demo as well. 

The spirit of the event is NOT breed "promotion", but breed "education." You may think that's purely semantic, but I assure you it is not. I am not handing out collectible Malinois trading cards. I am not giving out names of breeders. I am not going to be elbowing the Belgian Shepherd people out of the way so I can talk to the folks about how my breed is better. 

In my experience the past two years - I've sat with the Dobe people and also the BelgShep folks - people who are coming over are already interested in the breed and have some knowledge about it. You really don't get a lot of "puppy shoppers." I expect most people won't be able to decipher "Malinois" and think perhaps we're one of those frou frou breeds and move on. We're also way off to one side due to the alphabetical listing. Also, a lot of visitors are simply people who don't get to see a lot of dogs and are just looking; we've even talked to Scout troops. 

In my opinion, it's kind of like, if you don't vote you can't complain. I'm making the effort to show up and explain what these dogs are really like. Futile? Maybe. But surely more information is better. 

Leslie, the personal ad is great. Thanks!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> To many folks will cheer the whole cat thing. :twisted:


Ha,The cat thing would add fuel to the fire. There is not one logical reason someone would set up a both for this breed at this show. Other than some strange self satisfaction for the person setting up a booth at the AKC show there is nothing but disadvantages. The only booth this breed should be at is one at the Shot Show.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Elitist much? 

Why not go out and try to educate people and promote the breed in a responsible way? 

They're just dogs, not fire breathing dragons in shepherd suits. There will always be people getting dogs they will have problems with, from people who get a JRT because they think it's just a cute small dog to people who get a Malinois because it's the latest flavour of the month cool dog. Then there's people who can't deal with the demands of a Shitzhu or a Golden Retriever. Do you think telling people what these dogs are all about is going to solve that?

I have a Mal and a Dutch Shepherd. I am not a world renowned dog trainer, I'm just an old, fat chick who likes my dogs and is committed to doing right by them. I don't think I've done badly - they seem pretty happy and I don't have to keep them locked up and restrained at all times so they don't wreak havoc on my house or savage my friends.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I don’t think we are thinking on the same page, what your saying is not what I am trying to get at. I do believe you did fine, or even better by your dogs. And they defiantly are not fire breathing monsters in anyway. In fact I think the way most people talk about them is way, way over blown. What I really don’t want to see happen is people know about them by being educated and then wanting them in general. To me that will lead to breeders supplying what most people really want. I call it a hollow shell. I have friends who have two labs. They look like labs, paid a lot of money for them but they really are not labs. Hell they don’t even fetch or like the water. But they get to say they have too labs. Most people don’t want what the dog is all about they just want to say they have “X” kind of dog. And a lot of people would love to say they own a Malinois or DS. It won’t take long till they are just hollow shells.

And the buddy who has the labs. These are his second ones. The first ones were from Tuckerton NJ, a town known for duck hunting and some good labs. Those first labs were A-holes as he called them because they dug up the yard and would not sit still in the house so he had to get rid of them. But then he found some French labs or some crap. They move less and sleep more than my Greyhound but everyone thinks they are great labs.


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