# jayder from lobsters home



## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcbvicbcXyA


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

assuming this is jayder two not one?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> assuming this is jayder two not one?


did you ask Mr. Kreeft which one it is?


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

no , is he on this forum


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> no , is he on this forum


no but he obviously has a youtube account, and probably has an email, and maybe even a phone number  any of which could probably be used to attempt to contact him.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Hey Michael... Just curious why you post vids of others dogs with out any info on why your posting? Not trying to be confrontational or anything. Do you have a specific question about the work in the vid? Interested in the dog? Any of your own thoughts on the work? 

On a side note, and forgive me if I have missed them, do you have any vid of you doing any training? 

like I said, not trying to be confrontational, just curious.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Its difficult to understand where you are coming from sometimes. Maybe if WDF knew what you were doing or working towards the more experienced people on here could answer your questions or give you better guidance. just my .02


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

yes i understand it must seem all very random. give me 6 to 8 months and it will all be very clear :wink:


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

lol 10 4

safe bet that's Jayder II. Vid looks like young dog work, and was up loaded in 2010. 
Jayder died in 05.


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Austin are there breeders in holland known for producing more sporty lines and ones known for producing more "serious" dogs or is it just a mix


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

What's your definition or "sporty" and "serious"


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> Austin are there breeders in holland known for producing more sporty lines and ones known for producing more "serious" dogs or is it just a mix


Michael, is Holland your focal point or is it the Netherlands in general? I don't know the answer to your question but I am going to venture a guess that as with any breed you are going to have breeders with focal points on opposite ends of the spectrum. What exactly is it that you are interested in finding out?

You didn't mention KNPV specifically in your question but I presume from your previous questions/videos, etc. that you are interested in knowing if breeders in that country (or maybe even specific province(s)?) that produce dogs with the end goal of police/military work do so with a greater emphasis on sporty or serious types. I'm assuming of course that by breeders you meant breeders of the herder type?

If so, then I think that this quesition of sporty/serious doesn't quite fit considering the application. There's a lot more to it then that, IMO. Breeder consistency given your specific interests might be a better question. Or perhaps if you are just wondering for the sake of curiosity then I'd suggest that the proper individuals to answer your question are those that either routinely buy dogs from there or those who live there and are well connected with breeders and/or breed dogs themselves.


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

rudie pegge, berry 2 lamers being more sporty and Arko, Carlos more serious


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> rudie pegge, berry 2 lamers being more sporty and Arko, Carlos more serious


Michael, go to the Netherlands, and take a bite with no equipment from Berry II, and then tell me what your defintion of more serious is...


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Michael Murphy said:


> rudie pegge, berry 2 lamers being more sporty and Arko, Carlos more serious


Lol.. so how did berry look? Why sporty and not serious? Tell me about ruddie, I'm intetested in one of his daughters. What did you think of Arko, how does he produce? What does his progeny produce? 

Most important... why do ask such silly questions?

What did Bert or Marko say about berry?


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Michael Murphy said:


> rudie pegge, berry 2 lamers being more sporty and Arko, Carlos more serious


Seriously? Look at my AVI... thats Berry 2 offspring who in fact is sold into the Policeforce and is leaving next month... not a damn thing sporting about him, same for his brothers and sisters... 

Wanna explain yourself and why you think the way you think?


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

simple answer to all your questions is a lot more experienced people (then myself, not talking about use) have mentioned them being more sport lines. im not going to say who but one of you three actually described dogs similar to those lines as being sport lines, could be even them same but not sure if berry 2 pedigree on bloedlijinen is the right one. rudie pegge has produced police dogs but considered to produce dogs a bit more "easy to handle" and "softer" then other knpv dutchy lines---->so i have been told by a fair few people/breeders. 
im not saying this is true of you three, but i know of a lot of people on this forum who contradict themselfs on different threads, especially when posting on my threads, seems they just do it to disagree with me, or something a long those lines.


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## Ellen Piepers (Nov 6, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Seriously? Look at my AVI... thats Berry 2 offspring who in fact is sold into the Policeforce and is leaving next month... not a damn thing sporting about him, same for his brothers and sisters...
> 
> Wanna explain yourself and why you think the way you think?


Honestly Alice, do you think we would understand? :wink:

We had a litter from Berry II some years back. One of the males of that litter is lying here at my feet right now (I'm having my lunch break, working from home today). If you'd see him this way, you wouldn't believe what other side he has. But people that we train with and who he accepts during training, wouldn't risk getting into our backyard when he's there. Not because they're chickens, but because they know him. His brother, who is owned by a club mate (and stopped training because of the impact he had on the decoys), is the same kind of dog (and even more serious, I'd say). They're not the kind of dogs you easily sell to let's say the average guy working in a security job. Finding a good match for them is difficult. And that's not because they're too sporty. 

But maybe we have the exceptions, Alice #-o


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I will do you one better.. I don't even want to try and understand at this point! :lol: I guess we are indeed have the exceptions:mrgreen:

From looking at him in rest you would say Robbie is a gentle giant and most people make the mistake of treating him that way. He is in fact a gentle giant outside of work although hes a pretty stubborn bastard that will test you every so many weeks, just to see what he can get away with. In his training he has seen it all, done it all and had all but the kitchen sink thrown at him and he is still there, walking proud and doing his thing. Absolutely nothing sporting about him, add to that a mean streak a mile wide in training and you have your hands full with him. I'm glad he's going to an experianced handler, would hate to see a green guy get his hands on the leash. :lol: But like you said....we have the exceptions! 



Ellen Piepers said:


> Honestly Alice, do you think we would understand? :wink:
> 
> We had a litter from Berry II some years back. One of the males of that litter is lying here at my feet right now (I'm having my lunch break, working from home today). If you'd see him this way, you wouldn't believe what other side he has. But people that we train with and who he accepts during training, wouldn't risk getting into our backyard when he's there. Not because they're chickens, but because they know him. His brother, who is owned by a club mate (and stopped training because of the impact he had on the decoys), is the same kind of dog (and even more serious, I'd say). They're not the kind of dogs you easily sell to let's say the average guy working in a security job. Finding a good match for them is difficult. And that's not because they're too sporty.
> 
> But maybe we have the exceptions, Alice #-o


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> simple answer to all your questions is a lot more experienced people (then myself, not talking about use) have mentioned them being more sport lines. im not going to say who but one of you three actually described dogs similar to those lines as being sport lines, could be even them same but not sure if berry 2 pedigree on bloedlijinen is the right one. rudie pegge has produced police dogs but considered to produce dogs a bit more "easy to handle" and "softer" then other knpv dutchy lines---->so i have been told by a fair few people/breeders.
> im not saying this is true of you three, but i know of a lot of people on this forum who contradict themselfs on different threads, especially when posting on my threads, seems they just do it to disagree with me, or something a long those lines.


Michael...I think everyone here will be comfortable with you naming who 
has said whatever it is you think they said, and who is contradicting themselves, at least I will.

I am not sure your statements are fair, your intrepretation of what was actually said might be off, or it may have not been worded as clearly as it should have been..

for instance where this opinion come from? who taught you, or said things that would make you come to this conclusion? if they put a suit on the man in IPO, what would the difference be to you?



> don't blame the helper blame the sh*t sport. Put a suit on the man for heavens sake. its suppose to test the working ability of dogs, not the ability of a decoy to perfectly present a sleeve. shutzhund/ipo is the show sport ( derived from show dog) of the sporting/working dog world. AKA its a joke thats ruining dog breeds.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Michael Murphy said:


> simple answer to all your questions is a lot more experienced people (then myself, not talking about use) have mentioned them being more sport lines. im not going to say who but one of you three actually described dogs similar to those lines as being sport lines, could be even them same but not sure if berry 2 pedigree on bloedlijinen is the right one. rudie pegge has produced police dogs but considered to produce dogs a bit more "easy to handle" and "softer" then other knpv dutchy lines---->so i have been told by a fair few people/breeders.
> *im not saying this is true of you three, but i know of a lot of people on this forum who contradict themselfs on different threads, especially when posting on my threads, seems they just do it to disagree with me, or something a long those lines.*



Question? If you keep having people disagree with you, not just one person, but a bunch of people, and it happens constantly... What would the reason for that be?

Let me tell you something my father taught me when I was but a young lass who knew everything better than everyone!

When 1 person tells you "You sir, you are a donkey." You should tell them to Fk off.

When 3 people tell you "You sir, you are a donkey." You could still ignore them and think, Fk off!

When 5 people tell you "You sir, you are a donkey." You should start looking around for a mirror to check if you have funny teeth and large ears!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Question? If you keep having people disagree with you, not just one person, but a bunch of people, and it happens constantly... What would the reason for that be?
> 
> Let me tell you something my father taught me when I was but a young lass who knew everything better than everyone!
> 
> ...


and for something else entirely, since you are female and he was callng you sir


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

"disagree" probably was not the right word to use, as for someone to disagree with me i would probably have to state my opinion (which i rarely do, if ever) i pretty much always just ask questions.
i think it has to do with me not being a good trainer , having very little experience and still wanting a really good dog, or always asking about extreme drives etc or asking too many questions when they think i should be getting practical experience (which right now i cant do).

your dog from berry 2, who was the female?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michael you state your opinion, you just maybe dont realize you are doing it.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I have to say that I have purchased a lot of super police dogs from both Rudie Pegge and Berry II. Most of the Rudie sons were easy to handle, but that does not make them bad dogs for polilce work, in fact maybe the opposite is true. I have seen a lot of very serious Berry II sons, a couple that were far too difficult for most people to handle. There are many Rudie and Berry II offspring working in every aspect of Military and LE worldwide.


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

whats berry's pedigree


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

His BRN is 13062


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Rudie was himself a dog capable of police work and high level competition work. He was highly trainable and had a strong will to please. He produced dogs that were easy barkers, well driven, high trainability and will to please. If I was looking for a great competition dog I would go to Rudie and if I was looking for a dog that would be capable of great duel purpose work you can find it with Rudie. If I was looking for a balls to the wall tough SOB then im going to elsewhere.
And with Berry 2 all you need to look at is his owner. Mr Lamers is all the info you need to judge him lol.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> and for something else entirely, since you are female and he was callng you sir


Smartass! :lol:


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> Rudie was himself a dog capable of police work and high level competition work. He was highly trainable and had a strong will to please. He produced dogs that were easy barkers, well driven, high trainability and will to please. If I was looking for a great competition dog I would go to Rudie and if I was looking for a dog that would be capable of great duel purpose work you can find it with Rudie. If I was looking for a balls to the wall tough SOB then im going to elsewhere.
> And with Berry 2 all you need to look at is his owner. Mr Lamers is all the info you need to judge him lol.


hay chris did your kim produce social dogs? i herd ringo (bono son) produced some sharp dogs, curious to know if its from bono....
also how old is your kim , still able to breed her?


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> hay chris did your kim produce social dogs? i herd ringo (bono son) produced some sharp dogs, curious to know if its from bono....
> also how old is your kim , still able to breed her?


She produced some social and some not. Her mothers lines are known for alot of aggresion. Bono produced very well.
Kim is around 11 years and I only had one litter from her.


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