# Working with my eight week old Dutch?



## Anthony Arrants

Hey all, attached is a picture of our 8 week old Dutch Shepherd puppy London. 

We are going to work with Wallace Payne at South Metro ATL Schutzhund club. Until we do, does anyone have any recommendations for what tondo with the pup until we start formal training? We play tug, when she gets a full grip, I let go. She runs and plays just like a puppy, but I wonder if I should harness that energy into something positive for the future? I have been just enjoying the process as I go, but I plan on working on handler focus, but wonder if now is the right time?

Anyway, your input is invaluable to me when I appreciate any and all responses in advance!


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## Joby Becker

Anthony Arrants said:


> Hey all, attached is a picture of our 8 week old Dutch Shepherd puppy London.
> 
> We are going to work with Wallace Payne at South Metro ATL Schutzhund club. Until we do, does anyone have any recommendations for what tondo with the pup until we start formal training? We play tug, when she gets a full grip, I let go. She runs and plays just like a puppy, but I wonder if I should harness that energy into something positive for the future? I have been just enjoying the process as I go, but I plan on working on handler focus, but wonder if now is the right time?
> 
> Anyway, your input is invaluable to me when I appreciate any and all responses in advance!


best thing to do would be to ask Wallace Payne, since he will be helping you with the dog in the future.

At what age will you start "formal training"????


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## Anthony Arrants

When Wallace Payne tells me to, just as your answer implies.


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## Joby Becker

lol ok

how about this, dont do anything to work towards screwing up the dogs bite/grip. or anything else that might be detrimental to future training.


I would say take the pup out and get it in as many different environments/surroundings as you can.on different surfaces..cant go wrong there, unless you go wrong...


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## Anthony Arrants

Unless I go wrong?


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## Anthony Arrants

Joby Becker said:


> lol ok
> 
> how about this, dont do anything to work towards screwing up the dogs bite/grip. or anything else that might be detrimental to future training.
> 
> 
> I would say take the pup out and get it in as many different environments/surroundings as you can.on different surfaces..cant go wrong there, unless you go wrong...


I appreciate the sound advice on some parts, but I can't help but wonder if you are trying to be a bit of a smartass with me. Is this the case?

Edit: if I am simply misunderstanding your personality, please disregard.


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## Geoff Empey

Anthony Arrants said:


> I appreciate the sound advice on some parts, but I can't help but wonder if you are trying to be a bit of a smartass with me. Is this the case?
> 
> Edit: if I am simply misunderstanding your personality, please disregard.


As Joby was alluding too, just do a lot of environmental stuff (age appropriate) where the pup doesn't get overwhelmed. Play play play, short sessions to work with and bond with you and then back to the crate. If you are feeding kibble, use that to help the pup bond to you as well. I'd feed a good part of his meals through out the day by having him engage with you. You can shape heeling, fronts, positions with food in a no pressure fun kind of way. 

Joby is correct. Many people in their excitement with a new pup will screw up a puppy by doing way to much and expecting way to much. There isn't no really right or wrong answer or even an obvious answer for this. But doing to much tugging or shaping OB is usually to much pressure for no need, with a pup your age. Just keep it simple and you won't mess up the pup for future stuff. Haste makes waste! 

If you can make it or allowed to go to the training field at this point (ask first) even if you are not training the car ride and the exposure to the sounds of the field is training in itself, I'd do it. Then you can query senior trainers and as well as Wallace when he is available. As well as work your own field etiquette. Wallace is a great trainer I've had the pleasure to train with him multiple times you are very lucky to have him as a training director.


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## Anthony Arrants

Geoff Empey said:


> Anthony Arrants said:
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate the sound advice on some parts, but I can't help but wonder if you are trying to be a bit of a smartass with me. Is this the case?
> 
> Edit: if I am simply misunderstanding your personality, please disregard.
> 
> 
> 
> As Joby was alluding too, just do a lot of environmental stuff (age appropriate) where the pup doesn't get overwhelmed. Play play play, short sessions to work with and bond with you and then back to the crate. If you are feeding kibble, use that to help the pup bond to you as well. I'd feed a good part of his meals through out the day by having him engage with you. You can shape heeling, fronts, positions with food in a no pressure fun kind of way.
> 
> Joby is correct. Many people in their excitement with a new pup will screw up a puppy by doing way to much and expecting way to much. There isn't no really right or wrong answer or even an obvious answer for this. But doing to much tugging or shaping OB is usually to much pressure for no need, with a pup your age. Just keep it simple and you won't mess up the pup for future stuff. Haste makes waste!
> 
> If you can make it or allowed to go to the training field at this point (ask first) even if you are not training the car ride and the exposure to the sounds of the field is training in itself, I'd do it. Then you can query senior trainers and as well as Wallace when he is available. As well as work your own field etiquette. Wallace is a great trainer I've had the pleasure to train with him multiple times you are very lucky to have him as a training director.
Click to expand...

This is all fantastic advice and I thank you so much. 

That was what I was worried about as far as being too hasty with training. 

I understand the notion of crate training, at this stage in her life, what is beneficial to the puppy and her training by being confined when not training or eating?


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## Gillian Schuler

Just take it easy. Play with it. An 8-week old pup is just as happy in the back yard as anywhere else. When it has got used to its home, you can take it out to the forest, let it paddle in a stream, take it through the town, village, or what have you. Stand on the railway station and let it see the big trains go by. Take it *past* a school playground, shopping mall, etc.

It's difficult for me to give advice. I live in a village in Switzerland, near to a small town.

Don't think of doing anything wrong. If the pup is from good stock and you take it easy, nothing will happen. 

Think positive. Don't think about what you want to achieve with it. Just hope you have a healthy, lively pup and enjoy this time with it.


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## Geoff Empey

Anthony Arrants said:


> This is all fantastic advice and I thank you so much.
> 
> That was what I was worried about as far as being too hasty with training.
> 
> I understand the notion of crate training, at this stage in her life, what is beneficial to the puppy and her training by being confined when not training or eating?


Hey NP Anthony what is beneficial about crate training for the pup is building that bond with you, nothing really else. 

For me as a general rule, each month of age is how long in hours is how long I'd leave a dog in a crate. 8 weeks = 2 hours etc. 

Just have fun with her and be thoughtful of the pups age that's all and you'll do great!


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## Bob Scott

You can't go wrong following the advice from those at Wallace's club!

Some very good advice here but until you know what's expected from your club it is to easy for a beginner to create problems for later training. 

Bite work can be critical with some puppies.


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## Anthony Arrants

She is growing up way too fast!


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## Geoff Empey

How is the training going?


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## Anthony Arrants

Geoff Empey said:


> How is the training going?


Right now, we are playing games. Having fun while she is teething. 

We play chase games with the bite rag. People at South Metro Schutzhund said not to let her bite too much while she is teething. 

To that end, I'm spending about 5 minutes at a time getting engagement and focus with her. We also work with touchpads for hind end awareness. 

Thank you for asking, I'm loving Wallace's club so far! 

Does all of this sounds pretty good?


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## Geoff Empey

Anthony Arrants said:


> Does all of this sounds pretty good?


Yup sounds great! Perfect age appropriate work in my opinion. The touch pads will really help down the line for fronts, retrieves and even position for heeling. Sounds like you are on your way to building a nice working bond with your pup.


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## shelle fenton

That's one seriously cute pup ya got there!
I met my first dutch shepherd at the club yesterday. They are unusual here in Oz, not rare, but not common either.
The dog was 1yr old. And fast as a bullet. Joined the club 8 weeks before i saw him train. And he did everything asked of it, with all his heart. Gorgeous dogs! And IMO better to look at than the Mal, that still looks like an emaciated GSD to my ignorant eyes.


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## shelle fenton

Anthony Arrants said:


> She is growing up way too fast!


totally politically incorrect perhaps, but there's a pup id love to wake to! Gorgeous, lucky man. I have to wait till may to get mine


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## Anthony Arrants

https://youtu.be/i1BSMWkyElo

Above is a link to London working on her first bites. Enjoy!


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## Anthony Arrants

shelle fenton said:


> Anthony Arrants said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is growing up way too fast!
> 
> 
> 
> totally politically incorrect perhaps, but there's a pup id love to wake to! Gorgeous, lucky man. I have to wait till may to get mine
Click to expand...

Hey! It's okay. Get your thoughts together and enjoy that puppy! I appreciate the kind words!


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## Anthony Arrants

Here is a new photo. 7.5 months old and 50.5 pounds.


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## Geoff Empey

Anthony Arrants said:


> https://youtu.be/i1BSMWkyElo
> 
> Above is a link to London working on her first bites. Enjoy!


She looks drivey keep having fun with her.


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## Anthony Arrants

I appreciate it. The trainers at the club seem to believe she might do really well. As per normal, time will tell though.


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## shelle fenton

can you explain HOW crating your pup, assists with building a bond with the owner please?
Im a crate fan, as are my dogs. But have never considered their crates as enabling that. How does it do that?


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## Joby Becker

shelle fenton said:


> can you explain HOW crating your pup, assists with building a bond with the owner please?
> Im a crate fan, as are my dogs. But have never considered their crates as enabling that. How does it do that?


it can strengthen a "working bond"...

just like 2 people, spend too much time together, doing nothing or boring or bad stuff happening much of the time., the bond can suffer...

the more time spent doing "good Stuff" out of total time spent together strengthens the bond in my opinion..

absence makes the heart grow fonder....... or something like that anyhow.

just my opinion though....


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## rick smith

Anthony 
are you ok for a side discussion on crating ?


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## Bob Scott

shelle fenton said:


> can you explain HOW crating your pup, assists with building a bond with the owner please?
> Im a crate fan, as are my dogs. But have never considered their crates as enabling that. How does it do that?



The crate should always be a calm, safe place for a dog and NEVER used for punishment.


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## Anthony Arrants

Not really keen on it because I don't want to read through pages of debate and discussion about biddability of a dog in a crate.


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## Nicole Stark

Anthony Arrants said:


> Not really keen on it because I don't want to read through pages of debate and discussion about biddability of a dog in a crate.


That's probably a good response.

The fantastic and utterly weird aspect of this electronic age is that Rick can just go out and create a fake profile to start a conversation he wants to have on just about any topic his heart desires. 

Have fun working with you pup Anthony!


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## rick smith

Anthony

opinions are free and can be read or ignored. even Nicole is allowed to post hers even when she has nothing to contribute ](*,)

here's one real world example (not a fictitious profile), that doesn't involve biddability, of why i don't think crating is a necessary tool to use to help create a bond with your dog (working or not)

MWD's
- i hope most people would agree a military handler and their mwd have a strong bond (which i and many others define as a high degree of mutual trust and respect)
- crating is not use in any part of the training process except for transport on some occasions...in fact, on many deployments in FOA's, the K9 and handler live together, "velcro" style, which is another often misunderstood dog term 

there are many ways to create a good tight bond with your dog. just because some people might think they can be used for such a purpose, they definitely are not necessary....MANY other training methods work more effectively

i'll leave it at that and respect if you don't want to go into the subject any deeper. it interests me, but it's your thread and wasn't your Q, even tho others have already responded to it

post some longer vids of your bitework progress when you get a chance


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## Nicole Stark

Rick, I think you are right. I don't have anything to contribute, at least not not to your bizarre and creepy traps anyway. Why might that be? I checked out something or rather someone "new" that joined this recently but really never did, at least not on their own terms. In other words, they're real people but have never visited this forum. 

Keep doing you. It seems to work pretty well. Interestingly, you seemed to disregard what Anthony said and added what you had to say anyway. You see this as a contribution and not for what it really was, a bit of a self serving intrusion? Jesus man. Find something better to do with your time. And no, I'm not going to go away. Cry to the mods. Send your slithering, sneering PMs to your "friends". And keep banging your head on a brick wall. 

What was it that Einstein said? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Try it with a little bit more force will ya? Remember, you bring about what you think about.


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## rick smith

Anthony
sorry if you felt my post was trying to generate a crate discussion/debate, etc etc ....it wasn't...it was what it was

Shelle
if you want to discuss crating as it pertains to your Q....PM me


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## rick smith

by the way Anthony
your pup is cool...it deserves more than 21 secs of video time 
show us more !


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## shelle fenton

gorgeous pup!
id like to wake up to it too. 
puppy hungry, happy to do it by proxi here


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## Anthony Arrants

Thank you Rick! I will do what I can to get some more video posted in the next week or so. Right now London and I are working on focus and engagement again. She has grown incredibly stubborn over the past month or so which brings me back into a fun phase of short ball on a string game. 

We also had to revisit her out with the ball on a string because I'm we lost a little ground there as well. 

Her out is a little bit more clean with the ball on a string now we have graduated from working in the back yard with the ball to the front yard (on leash of course) around neighborhood dogs walking by and cars zooming past us. 

We will do this for a few more days and then graduate to the edge of busy parking lots and during dead periods at parks. 

The ultimate goal is to work up to the Schutzhund field and I have her focus iron clad while we work obedience. I haven't gotten to work on her fuss all that much due to her lack of focus. 

Everything is a game at the moment and we are having fun while she is frustrated with those teenager times. 

I can say one thing, I badly underestimated the teenage times with a Dutch Shepherd puppy and I'm okay with that now. It's on me to reign her in and help her see me as her sole source of fun and entertainment. 

Thanks for all of the kind words from all of you. As you may remember, being a greenhorn is never easy, but you MUST start sometime and I chose this period of my life. 

Cheers all!


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