# loud noise and a puppy



## scott merritt (Jan 17, 2010)

My new pup just turned 8 weeks old today and sure enough our first issue comes up.

Heres what happened : Me and the pup are playing and I can see that the pup is becoming tired, at the same time the guy delivering my landscaping mulch arrives in the dump truck, so I scoop up the pup and head outside to so him were to dump the mulch. He backs up and dups the load, there is a loud BAM and CLANK from the dumpbed that startles the pup.

Pups reaction: the pup was in my arms about 20 feet from were all of this was happening. The pup began to squrm and try to jump from my arms, I let it down and it ran away to the porch steps and sat there looking at me. After the truck left the pup came back to me walking at a normal pace not scared or upset.

Sorry about the long post just wanted to be detailed, Im still new to working dogs and have been told and have read that 8 weeks is a important time in a pups life. I just hope I havent screwed up already.

If im overreacting some one please tell me so. Thanks


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Don't worry about it.....introduce noises gradually...

Instead of taking pups to the noise, I take them outside and while they are snooping and sniffing around I will throw a dog dish or something. I never throw anything at or behind, but rather throw it in the opposite direction. 

The first couple times I have the pup on a 30' line so that if they decide to cut and run, they can't get far and I can try to "help" them get over it without babying them....I pretty much just continue on a walk and when they go back to being forward and curious I reward and tell them how good they are. 

Never reward or praise when the pup is nervous.....you can talk to them normally, "what are ya doing?" "come in let's do something else" and stuff....

I don't mind a startle at all....it is the recovery time I look for. Big points for running at the cause and jumping on it.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Carol,

I think I disagree with not rewarding or praising when a dog is nervous. I think most people say this because they are afraid that they will reawrd nervousness. They think the dog will act nevous in order to gain the reward.

There have been studies that have shown classical conditioning is a stronger force than operant conditioning. The dog is more likely to associate treats and praise with loud noises (and thus look forward to loud noises) than it is to act nervous in order to gain a reward.


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## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

Your puppy is just a baby. Gradually introduce him to loud noises & other startling situations. In other words--try to set everything up--control the situation so there aren't any mistakes. You can make or break your puppy at this age. Loud noises are intimidating to your puppy--this absolutely doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him.

With your puppy on leash:
1. Play with your puppy while the noise is introduced at a distance.
2. Feed your puppy from your hand while the noise is introduced at a distance--keep moving while feeding.
3. Keep moving if your puppy freezes.
4. Act confident & whatever you do, do not act concerned or worried.
5. Do not coddle or pet nervously if he becomes frightened--continue on as if nothing happened.
6. Do not get impatient--let your puppy mature. If your puppy doesn't have very high prey drive, it will take a longer period of time--that means nothing.
7. Start with motivational obedience right now--he's not too young.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Ben Colbert said:


> Carol,
> 
> I think I disagree with not rewarding or praising when a dog is nervous. I think most people say this because they are afraid that they will reawrd nervousness. They think the dog will act nevous in order to gain the reward.
> 
> There have been studies that have shown classical conditioning is a stronger force than operant conditioning. The dog is more likely to associate treats and praise with loud noises (and thus look forward to loud noises) than it is to act nervous in order to gain a reward.


I think we have a different take on nervousness.....I talk to the pup/dog, but don't make a big issue out of it. I don't ignore them at all. 
Have seen people coddling dogs during times like this and the dog just got worse each time. But I am happy to agree to disagree....I am a firm believer in "train what works for the dog". :smile:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I wouldn't worry about it yet Scott. Lots of people test young puos with noises. Drop a small pot or coffee can close to him on the concrete. All pupos will startle but you want to see the follow up reaction and the time it takes for that follow up reaction. Here is another thing people do to test pups. This is a 7 week old and I always thought this was the typical reaction you get from holding a puo like this. Apparently some have a fit. We took 10 pictures while this pup was just hanging out. Apparently for a test, this is the way they are supposed to react. The sister to this male was just shipped to MN Carol.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Ooooh Karla has a great pup I bet. I am jealous!!! Have not heard back from her yet....wonder if she is still cleaning house....LOL


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Looking at that picture, I will have to go out and stand that pressure tank up and pick up the wood pieces left against the fence from rebuilding all the dog houses. LOL Maybe get rid of the ladder and the logging chain hanging on the fence. Looks kind of like a red neck may live here. LMAO Seems there is always something to do. The hose stays because all this stuff is behind electric fences where the dogs can't get it. You have no idea how many hoses I have bought.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Looking at that picture, I will have to go out and stand that pressure tank up and pick up the wood pieces left against the fence from rebuilding all the dog houses. LOL Maybe get rid of the ladder and the logging chain hanging on the fence. Looks kind of like a red neck may live here. LMAO Seems there is always something to do. The hose stays because all this stuff is behind electric fences where the dogs can't get it. You have no idea how many hoses I have bought.


Well crap....I thought it was all there for the pups to have something to do. I say leave it. Looks like my playfield....LOL


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I think pups not all, but most will be a little hesitant or startled by some loud noises or situations. A dog with good nerves will recover quickly and carry on with life, much like your pup did. Follow Sue's advise, those are good rules to go by and the same advise I was given (it works). 

Just wait until he's 5 or 6 months old and starts barking at inanimate objects. 

Good luck.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ben Colbert said:


> I think I disagree with not rewarding or praising when a dog is nervous. I think most people say this because they are afraid that they will reawrd nervousness. They think the dog will act nevous in order to gain the reward.
> 
> There have been studies that have shown classical conditioning is a stronger force than operant conditioning. The dog is more likely to associate treats and praise with loud noises (and thus look forward to loud noises) than it is to act nervous in order to gain a reward.


Rewarding and praising are different from coddling, I think. 

An important aspect to coddling, etc., when there is something going on that triggers anxiety is that it reinforces the dog's perception that _yes, this is indeed a scary thing; see how my handler is reacting._ Calm and upbeat reactions from us model the reaction we want. 

So _"... they are afraid that they will reward nervousness. They think the dog will act nervous in order to gain the reward"_ isn't really what's in my mind when I am careful of my own demeanor around an anxiety trigger (for the dog). It's more that I want the dog to see my own casual (non-)reaction to it. Carol and Sue's advice is right on.



ETA
This isn't the same thing as working with the dog around a deep fear or repeated anxious reaction to a specific trigger, which would be when I might be using counter-conditioning (along with desensitizing).


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Connie, 

It's a little bit clearer now. Thanks!


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## scott merritt (Jan 17, 2010)

Don, I tryed the hanging test with my pup and she stayed calm as could be, what excactly does this tell me about my pup? She is very curouis loves to bite at anything ( including my 2 year old male). I also tryed droping the bowl or aluminum pan on the ground while playing tug and she didnt release or break focus. I am very happy with all the advice thanks to all.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Scott, I am not sure what the hanging test is about. All I know is a lot of people use it, and the pan drop, as a measuring stick. I am guessing it is about nerves but I may be wrong. Maybe some of the trainers could shed some light on what these tests are about. I can't imagine a lot of pups failing these tests. Sounds like your dog would pass with flying colors Scott.....just can't tell you why. LOL


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Don do you get your dogs used to gun fire with smaller calibers like 22 long rifle. Or do you just start shooting the larger size boar hunting calibers to condition the dog to loud noise.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Ben, I usually tale a .22 LR, mag or a Hornet out to the front gate and shoot a squirrel and give it to the pups. After a couple they are all at the gate whenever they see a squirrel and the are raising hell looking back at the house wanting me to come out and shoot it for them. Neighbors don't care for it much. LOL I have fired a 45/70 or a .44 mag over a few young dogs heads but you got to be carefull that they are behind a bit and fully focused on the hog. Doesn't seem to bother them if they are fixated on the older dogs working a hog.


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## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

I have been wondering about the tree rat thing myself. As I was thinking about raw and what not. We have tons of them in my back yard that I was thinking of picking off with the high powerd BB gun since I am in city limits.

So you just flop it in there? Here in the South East I know there is a season when they have more cysts or what the old timers call wolves (sp?) and that has been my hesitation. Not wanting to pass anything onto my dogs.

(sorry for hijack)


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Ben, I usually tale a .22 LR, mag or a Hornet out to the front gate and shoot a squirrel and give it to the pups. After a couple they are all at the gate whenever they see a squirrel and the are raising hell looking back at the house wanting me to come out and shoot it for them. Neighbors don't care for it much. LOL I have fired a 45/70 or a .44 mag over a few young dogs heads but you got to be carefull that they are behind a bit and fully focused on the hog. Doesn't seem to bother them if they are fixated on the older dogs working a hog.


I guess giving them the game is the best reward in their eyes anyway. If you are target shooting and they are behind you I don't know what you would reward them with then. Maybe a tug or ball of somekind.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Jason Hammel said:


> I have been wondering about the tree rat thing myself. As I was thinking about raw and what not. We have tons of them in my back yard that I was thinking of picking off with the high powerd BB gun since I am in city limits.
> 
> So you just flop it in there? Here in the South East I know there is a season when they have more cysts or what the old timers call wolves (sp?) and that has been my hesitation. Not wanting to pass anything onto my dogs.
> 
> (sorry for hijack)


 Just gut them cook them and eat them yourself. Theres probably some good recipes out there.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I don't introduce shit. THe dog is what he is, and your pup sounds like he is fine. There is enough to do with a pup without trying to cover up silly shit.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2010)

Ben Colbert said:


> Carol,
> 
> I think I disagree with not rewarding or praising when a dog is nervous. I think most people say this because they are afraid that they will reawrd nervousness. They think the dog will act nevous in order to gain the reward.
> 
> There have been studies that have shown classical conditioning is a stronger force than operant conditioning. The dog is more likely to associate treats and praise with loud noises (and thus look forward to loud noises) than it is to act nervous in order to gain a reward.


*CAREFUL!* Timing is everything if you read thjis post. IF you do not understand these terms and the correct application of reinforcement you may in fact be reinforcing a response that you do not intend to reinforce. Do your homewrok. The above post is sorta misleading. sorry if someone already posted this. not feeling too hot.


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