# Nervous Mal pup



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

How much is normal? 
I've commented about my 7 month old Mal pup being way to spooky for my liking. 
I've also heard and been told that some of this is normal for a mal, but it's driving me crazy. 
Is it really normal? When will it pass? I've never in 45+yrs of dogs had one drive me crazy like this.
If this were a working terrier, it would be referred to as a G&S dog. (Gun and Shovel dog)  
I got here on a quick (you can't pass this up) decision and have never, and will never do that again.
I'd rather be working with the Presa pup I had that went back to the breeder to be sold  :lol: :lol:


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## Doug Wendling (Apr 1, 2006)

Bob
What does she do? Freak out at every noise? Run and hide from strangers? She is at a bad age or was she always the way she is now?

One thing some people (maybe you know this, I don't know?) do not realize about the breed and that is as a breed they are very reactive and at times (depending on the dog) overly reactive. It can be a pain at times, but it is also one of those things that does make them (in my opinion) so great in law enforcement work.

Do you know her bloodlines? How old was she when you got her?

Doug


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

She can recover once she settles down. I just don't like that in ANY dog.
I got her at 12 weeks and she had been kept with all her litter mates to that time. :roll: I know, I know! My bad!
I saw both of her parents. Dam was nasty. Sire was a little nervous but it totally disapeared when he was in drive. What I expected in a Mal. Nice bite work.
To many red flags that I ignored. Even my wife has asked me "As much as you preach about selecting the right pup, why in the heck did you pick her"?      
The devil made me do it! :roll: :lol:


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## Doug Wendling (Apr 1, 2006)

Bob
Some lines really produce nervous dogs and if the father was a bit nervous, well........?

The other bad thing (and it seems from my experience with them) is if the pups are left with the litter to long it has or can have some negative lasting effects on the dogs. Socialization especially environmental socialization with Malinois is real important and if that was not done and given the fact that they are so reactive as a breed it can spell trouble.



> Sire was a little nervous but it totally disappeared when he was in drive.


 This can spell trouble some times when people are testing older Malinois. Again one of the double edge swords with Malinois is, their mouths are usually the last thing to quit working. So, at times that can be a good thing, but it can also hide faults in dogs. If one does not dig deep enough they may never be uncovered. But on the surface everything looks nice because the dog bites, and or looks full or drive.

Doug


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I totally agree with all your saying Doug! 
My problem is I don't have the heart do just "get rid of her" and I wont sell her to anyone with out their being familiar with all her flaws. 
I'll probably ride it out till hse's a bit more mature but I'm not optimistic.


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## Doug Wendling (Apr 1, 2006)

Bob
I have been in the same boat and I am also a softy when it comes to dogs, nothing wrong with that, right?  
No harm in trying and seeing what happens, you just never know.

Doug


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: She can recover once she settles down.

Explain this a bit more.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Bob,
There are any (huge) number of potential problems and solutions...but if you have a sharp or "spooky" dog, you need to stress her and accompany her outside the training field. In other words, HYPER expose her to stimuli, WHILE DEMANDING OBEDIENCE within the stimuli. Be careful of always keeping the process in forward gear, albeit slowly.
If she's really nice, give her the opportunity...otherwise...  
The idea is to desensitize her, and teach her to trust you, to calm down, and to obey no matter what. She'll be feeding off your attitude more than you can imagine. If the handler is CONSISTENT, FIRM and CALM, the dog will eventually be that too.
Can you give "for instances"?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just about anything new spooks her. 
I pretty much do what your saying by ignoring her and keep right on moving. She does work through it but my head short circuts with this type of dog. :-k :-k Maybe if I double up on my meds?!! :lol: :lol: :lol: 
The mal people that have seen her tell me she's spookier then what they like working with.  
I know, I know! I'll never be a good dog trainer if I can't handle these type of issues.   
At 61, I DON'T WANT TO! :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

7 mo. is a fearperiod and maybe she is going into her first heat? That will empasize her fearperiod.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't buy into the fear period stuff, if the dog is that old and spooky, it's just a spooky dog. I feel bad for scared dogs, but i don't want to be around that crap either,

AL


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maybe I've been around in-your-face terriers for to many years but I'm also not a big believer in fear periods. 
Pups I've seen of any breed, that were fearful, were fearful adults. 
Being startled is one thing but when pup constantly stresses over, and has a hard time recovering from common, everyday situations, that's poor genetics.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I believe in fear periods to an extent...not to the point that the pup shows extreme shying behaviours or refusal to confront what startled. During my boy's periods ( :lol: ) he merely hackled a bit and then moved on...the hackling disappeared in a few weeks.


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Think of the stress as an air tank in which the pressure builds.At some point the the air will need to be released.If the handler doesnt release the pressure in the tank(dog).then the dog will blow(flight response).So how does the handler release the pressure?Communication!Talk to the dog,tell the dog "its ok" "I see it" and "easy" or whatever.Calm the dog through communication and this will build trust in both handler and dog.The flight response is pushed back farther and farther.The stress is gradually increased and the dog is worked around and through whatever causes stress.
If the dogs genetics are really bad then thats all you can do and it may not make a working dog but at least using this method you see the dogs full potential genetically.
Of course I cant really explain it right on the net.. :x

Bob,you probably already knew that didnt you?LOL :x


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## Liz Monty (Oct 22, 2006)

I am bound to hear a lot of aguments about this one: I took a 12 month old puppy that could not be sold. She was so timid she was standing against a wall when I saw her and would not move. She thought that by not moving no one would see her. I grabbed her and carried her to the car and took her home. I crated her with water and food dish and left the door open. I stayed in the room with her as much as possible and would have to gently drag her out of the crate for the washroom breaks. It took weeks before she would come out on her own. Then she would come out of the crate to chase me and play catch me as I ran around the floor on all fours, LOL.
It took longer to get her to explore the house, and when ever any other house member came near, she would run back to the crate.
I brought to a guy who trained many search dogs, by the use of food and toy praise )which I do not agree with anymore). She showed her timidness and no desire to have interest in anything or rewards.
He blew her off as a worthless fear dog, with no work potential. I told him he was wrong. A couple of months later, I showed up with her when he was working dogs and lots of people around and she had more drive to work than most of the other dogs.
The only thing I did that made this dog was this: First I built her trust in me by becomming a playmate who did not hurt her. Then I forced her to exposure - not in a way most of you would appreciate.
We had a rescue (not me, but our police force) a guy had fallen over a cliff. Air rescue (helicopter), firetrucks and cruisers where everywhere. I was walking the dog in the bush when it happened. I took her to the area and she crept into the bushes and hid. I tugged the leash to get her on her feet and she refused. I gave her a few chances to listen to my command to get up and then I made her get up. 
The first few feet meant dragging her by her leash. "Then the bells in her head went off", she realized I was boss and I had never harmed her, and she walked along happily right past all the commotion. Sounds mean, but it had to be done. From that point on she was great and brave. It may not work with other dogs, but it was something I knew was deep inside of her waiting to come out. From that point on she learned tracking and air scent even during a kids soccer game with a packed field of parents and kids. She acted like they where not even there.
Sometimes you have to either let them continue in fear or take the chance and reach in and force the fear away. If the dog continues in fear, then he always will.
Just my opinion. It doesn't mean I am right.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Liz Monty said:


> ......The first few feet meant dragging her by her leash. "Then the bells in her head went off", she realized I was boss and I had never harmed her, and she walked along happily right past all the commotion. Sounds mean, but it had to be done........If the dog continues in fear, then he always will.......Just my opinion. It doesn't mean I am right.


Doesn't sound mean to me. Sometimes (IMO) that's exactly what has to be done, and sometimes it will work.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

P.S. Good for you, and congrats, BTW!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

7 months is definately a fear period, or at least a time where you can cause some damage with excessive pressure. I have seen this many times. If your dog is not under any sort of stress, then you probably won't see it. Most people don't push 7 month old dogs anymore. 

With my basic OB classes, many of the behavioral problems involving weird fear, stemmed from something that happened at 7 months.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I apprieciate all the good advice. At this point all I can do is ride it out till I make a decision.
One thing for sure. This is the first and will be the last time I buy a dog based on "Ya gotta get one of thes pups. The guy is trying to get rid of them". DUH! No $#!+. :lol: :lol:  :wink:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I apprieciate all the good advice. At this point all I can do is ride it out till I make a decision.
> One thing for sure. This is the first and will be the last time I buy a dog based on "Ya gotta get one of these pups. The guy is trying to get rid of them". DUH! No $#!+. :lol: :lol:  :wink:


Maybe not a great intro for any acquisition......... :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Bought a few cars that way but never a dog. :lol:


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