# NARA Western Regional Championship 2010 - 09/25 & 26



## Erin Suggett (Nov 17, 2007)

*NARA Western Regional Championship 2010* 
Lake Wohlford Canine Ranch
26417 North Lake Wohlford Rd. Valley Center, CA 92082
Valley Center, CA (Escondido/San Diego) 

Dates: September 25 - 26, 2010
Hosting Club: So Cal All Breed Ringers (NARA)
Judge: Andre AGREMONT (France)
Decoy: Waleed Maalouf (NARA Level III)
Decoy: Matt Nieuwkoop (NARA Level III)
Event Location: http://www.lakewohlfordcanineranch.com/map.asp
Entry Form: http://www.ringsport.org/Documents/RegionalsEntryForm.pdf
NARA Website: http://www.ringsport.org/
So Cal All Breed Ringers Website: http://scabr.training4dogz.com/

16 CONFIRMED ENTRIES
6 Ring I's
5 Ring II's
5 Ring III's

*French Judge Andre AGREMONT* 




*NARA Level III Waleed Maalouf*




*NARA Level III Matt Nieuwkoop*



*The Awards*


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

What level decoy are you using as an alternate and is the trial field a neutral site?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I believe the alternate decoy is Manuel Montero, a level 3 decoy from Mexico, I'd have to verify that with Laura (our club's number one coordinator/organizer for these events)

The field is a brand new field in the area that is used by some local agility and Schutzhund clubs as their home field, but isn't the home field for any of the FR clubs. Most of the dogs in the trial have been on the field though since the Extreme Ring trial was held there a few weeks ago, and the majority of the entries were also at that trial.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I believe the alternate decoy is Manuel Montero, a level 3 decoy from Mexico, I'd have to verify that with Laura (our club's number one coordinator/organizer for these events)
> 
> The field is a brand new field in the area that is used by some local agility and Schutzhund clubs as their home field, but isn't the home field for any of the FR clubs. Most of the dogs in the trial have been on the field though since the Extreme Ring trial was held there a few weeks ago, and the majority of the entries were also at that trial.


It's been used for ring training by SCABRs members for some months and a lot of ring training has been done there prior to ERD trial by SCABRs (host of the Reg. Championships). 

The location for the ERD trial was moved there about 2 weeks before the trial date because I have a problem with dead grass and gophers at my field. I know this because I went and looked at the field and talked with the owner and arranged to rent it. I believe there is a post about the field that I started when the location was being switched. I posted this soon after visiting the field. Most of the thread was about how hard it is too grow beautiful grass in sand..

ERD members had never been to the field until about a week before the trial as it took about a week for the NARA board to decide it was okay for ERD to move their trial location. Then Tim Welch went over and gave the rent $$ to the owner. 

It was a neutral field for ERD members and the out-of-state competitors at that trial, but they did have open field the day before the trial. 

It could not of been considered a neutral field for many SCABR members as many go over there for training for the last few months. It's not their home field, but it's a field that many of their members train at regularly. Sort of splitting hairs imo. I have this information from the owner of the field when I arranged to rent it. He is hoping to get even more training over there, which is a good thing imo as it's an awesome place with beautiful grass. He said that you train there with Adrian? Was that suppose to be a secret?

However, I don't know why it matters as fields are hard to come by and a neutral field very difficult to find. IMO it's better to just say it straight and not twist things.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

The only SCABR members who have been training there for "the last few months" are the field owner, and 1 club member who lives in the area and has a young dog who isn't ready to compete, who also happens to be a member of the Schutzhund club that trains there on a regular basis. 

Some of SCABR members went down prior to the Extreme trial, the first day anyone from SCABR other then the two people mentioned went was the same day Tim took the rent money over for the ERD trial. So based on your post it sounds like ERD and SCABR people started going the same day. No secret, nobody is denying it. I believe I personally trained there 2 times before the ERD trial, once was the day before open field since I couldn't make it to open field. But that might have been the only time I trained there (not sure why that matters). It's not our club's home field, and I believe I already stated most of the dogs in the trial have already been on that field. So who is twisting things?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Saying it straight.

[-X


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## Jeanne Meldrim (Mar 27, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> ERD members had never been to the field until about a week before the trial as it took about a week for the NARA board to decide it was okay for ERD to move their trial location.


Hi Debbie,

I'm not sure why you are saying it took the board a week to decide it was okay for ERD to move their trial location? I received an e-mail from Dale on 8/21 telling me there was a new location for the trial and asking me to make the change, and I answered "Sure, no problem. " that same day. The board never discussed or voted on it.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeanne Meldrim said:


> Hi Debbie,
> 
> I'm not sure why you are saying it took the board a week to decide it was okay for ERD to move their trial location? I received an e-mail from Dale on 8/21 telling me there was a new location for the trial and asking me to make the change, and I answered "Sure, no problem. " that same day. The board never discussed or voted on it.


Tim Welch was waiting for the Erin (NARA President) to give him an answer on moving the location not you. The reason given was because it was scheduled to be the Reg. Trial site (already scheduled prior). That's why I'm saying it, it's because we were waiting and he kept calling her back asking for answer to go ahead. As soon as he got the answer from Erin we all moved forward and paid for the field and announced the official change of location. Sorry for any confusion, but this is what happened. :grin: The reason I know this is because I was writing the check to pay for the field rental and was making the trial programs so I was bugging Tim almost daily about whether it was a "go" or "no go". If it was not a go, I'd be out on my field stomping in gopher holes last minute and manicuring my dead grass.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

My main point is why all the pressure to have the fields "neutral" or appear to be neutral as there are so few dog fields available, we all know that a truly neutral field is very difficult to find and normally very expensive to rent and set up for a ring event. I think it's best to have trials on fields that are regulation and safe and stop with the neutral field emphasis. :-k

I hope many trials are held at Larry Shannon's field as it's an awesome field with great footing for the dogs with a lot of shaded parking, dog play areas, etc.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Saying it straight.

LOL The miss-tress of mis-information strikes again.

Ask her about the huge advantage it is to have the trial on your own field, with people all over, and your dogs going apeshit knowing there is a trial coming up. HUGE advantage. LOL


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Saying it straight.
> 
> LOL The miss-tress of mis-information strikes again.
> 
> Ask her about the huge advantage it is to have the trial on your own field, with people all over, and your dogs going apeshit knowing there is a trial coming up. HUGE advantage. LOL


But, my point is that I paid for a field that is less neutral than mine because of the footing and caring about the dogs. No one from NARA trains on my field so it was the neutral-most! LOL 

However, I think the sport should be about the dogs and the field that I rented did give some an advantage (having trained there) over others I suppose but it was the best thing to do for the dogs. 

I don't want a dog stepping in a gopher hole and until I poison all the little-satin-rats, I must be concerned about injury. I know it's a weird thing to be concerned about when everyone else is talking politics and importing a dog vs training a puppy..yadda..yadda...


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

There is a huge advantage to dogs trialing on their home field. They show much more "respect", for lack of a better word, for their home field. It may not be a big deal to some but it does give an unfair advantage.

However, as Debbie pointed out, the safety of the dogs and those involved in the trial comes first.

I do think it's good that NARA's using the same French judge and the same decoys for both regionals.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> There is a huge advantage to dogs trialing on their home field. They show much more "respect", for lack of a better word, for their home field. It may not be a big deal to some but it does give an unfair advantage.
> 
> However, as Debbie pointed out, the safety of the dogs and those involved in the trial comes first.
> 
> I do think it's good that NARA's using the same French judge and the same decoys for both regionals.



I'm going to work very hard to fix my field and then it will be available in the future, but until then unless they can rent a school field or sports field, they will need to use available dog fields. Not that many left to choose from in SoCal. 

Now with my county trying to misinterpret an old code for sentry dogs to mean protection sport and police dogs, who knows where that leads as well. May catch on in other counties as the gov't is looking for $$.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: There is a huge advantage to dogs trialing on their home field

Obviously you have no experience training dogs. No one has any idea who you are, and if you did have experience, you would know what I was talking about.

Debbie, there is no way that they would NOT have "home" field advantage.


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## Leri Hanson (Apr 3, 2008)

*"It's been used for ring training by SCABRs members for some months and a lot of ring training has been done there prior to ERD trial by SCABRs (host of the Reg. Championships)."*

Really?!?! That's it! The SCABR crew is in BIG trouble now for holding private training at different fields and not even inviting me! :-x


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: There is a huge advantage to dogs trialing on their home field
> 
> Obviously you have no experience training dogs. No one has any idea who you are, and if you did have experience, you would know what I was talking about.
> 
> Debbie, there is no way that they would NOT have "home" field advantage.


Duh.. :roll: Why state the obvious when they are denying it's their training field. We'll be just in a big loop again of "she/he said and she denies it" ](*,)

How much did those those gorgeous looking trophies cost? Very, very nice btw.

How much would a neutral field cost to be rented for a once per year regionals (one on the west coast and one on the east coast) and the championships? Schutzhund does it all the time for regionals and championships.

ERD rented Larry's field which was neutral for ERD and the out-of-staters for $350 for a local trial. Hey, but when does logic ever prevail in ring sport? :lol::lol: 

Why would a hosting club for a regional or national event that has people flying in and driving in from out of state think that it's important to actually have a neutral playing field? 

Most of the ringers now have never seen it done any differently.. so why start now? :roll: 

There are a couple field choices that are less neutral so this is a step in the right direction. 

At this point, I just try to support the trainers as well as when a club is trying to do French Ring correctly, I support them with my $$ and labor.

better Jeff? Doesn't make a heck of a difference stating all this..won't change a thing...


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Leri Hanson said:


> *"It's been used for ring training by SCABRs members for some months and a lot of ring training has been done there prior to ERD trial by SCABRs (host of the Reg. Championships)."*
> 
> Really?!?! That's it! The SCABR crew is in BIG trouble now for holding private training at different fields and not even inviting me! :-x


Is it a neutral field for SCABR members? That is the question. 

Not if 1 of you hasn't been there to train. Adrien goes there weekly to train dogs. It's not a secret. Larry asked me to spread the word even because he wants to be sure that Adrian has enough clients to be able to make it worth his while to continue coming. 

I personally do not care, but for Kadi to say it's been neutral until ERD trial is not true. I know ringers have been training there with Adrien for months.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Now they are excluding Leri from training ? What a crock.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Now they are excluding Leri from training ? What a crock.



#-o:lol::lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Don't worry Leri, you can train at Debbie's place. What are they thinking excluding you ?


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Obviously you have no experience training dogs. No one has any idea who you are, and if you did have experience, you would know what I was talking about.


Are you always so nice to people? You must be the designated "arrogant prick" of WDF and if you're not, then that should be your new title. =D>


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I am the guy who points out shit like you don't know what the **** you are talking about. If you have a problem with the fact that I know you don't know shit, lets look at France. Where are the neutral fields there ??


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am the guy who points out shit like you don't know what the **** you are talking about. If you have a problem with the fact that I know you don't know shit, lets look at France. Where are the neutral fields there ??


Being that I've never been to France I can't answer that. If I lived in France this would concern me but I don't. I'm sure the French aren't concerned about our fields. ](*,)

So you like to come on here and call people out because you think they don't know what they're talking about. We aren't all as knowledgeable as you Jeff and we have to start somewhere. It appears that it makes you feel good to try and insult and belittle others on this forum. I feel sorry for you. What a pathetic person you are. 

It's dogs Jeff, not rocket science. You're not saving lives here and what you or anyone else does with dogs doesn't matter for shit in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe your mommy & daddy should have given you more attention and hugs when you were young. Perhaps then you wouldn't have turned out to be the classless douche bag that you are.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Debbie Skinner said:


> but for Kadi to say it's been neutral until ERD trial is not true.


Please point out where I said this is a neutral field? I said it is nobodies home field, I also said that many of the dogs who are going to be at the trial have already been on the field.



> I know ringers have been training there with Adrien for months.


Actually, you don't know that, you are running with a rumor. I spoke to Laura today and asked when the first time was that Adrian went to that field and trained, and it was the day Tim took the $$ to pay the rental fee. That does not equate to "training there for months". 

There is nothing in the NARA policies that requires the host club for the regionals to provide a neutral field. If SCABR wanted to, we could host the trial right there in Riverside, on our home field. We choose not to, because we wanted to find a field that wasn't our home field. Which actually increases the cost of this trial to SCABR, because now almost all our club members will be paying extra travel and hotel bills, it's a 3+ hour drive to that field for many of them. 

As far as the cost of renting a neutral field, Dave Kroyer might be able to give you that information, as he is in charge of the arrangements for the NARA Championships this year, which will be held at Triple Crown Dog Academy in TX. I can't say nobody in Ring has ever been there though, since a few also compete in other sports and I believe both Sch and MR trials have been held there.

I know we have tried to find neutral fields in this area for trials in the past, it was almost impossible. I won't say impossible, because there may be 1 field we overlooked, but there was a lot of searching done, with no positive results. If you know of a neutral field that will allow Ring trials, please share the information. There are very few, if any, fields in this area that will allow Ring training, that haven't been trained on by a NARA member at some point. Including yours. If training there once or twice means it's not a neutral, I'm not sure if there are any neutral fields in this area anymore.

But really, why does this matter? This discussion is a waste of time. Just another attempt to try to make something NARA is doing appear to be some huge negative in the world of Ring.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

This discussion is a waste of time. _*Just another attempt to try to make something NARA is doing appear to be some huge negative in the world of Ring*_.[/QUOTE]

I still don't know why all the bickering and/or differences between NARA and ARF, but your right in that ragard, it is negative all around from FR and if someone was interested, I am sure they are leaning the other way now....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Maybe your mommy & daddy should have given you more attention and hugs when you were young. Perhaps then you wouldn't have turned out to be the classless douche bag that you are.

Your opinion on ring means as much to me as your opinion of my parents. Feel free if you see my mother or father to mention that I am a classless douchebag. See how that works out for you. While you are at it, maybe you should actually learn about the sport before you spout off at the mouth.

Tell Frankie I said hi.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> .......But really, why does this matter? This discussion is a waste of time. Just another attempt to try to make something NARA is doing appear to be some huge negative in the world of Ring.


No, not with NARA. I find it amusing that when I disagree with how a NARA officer, member or club is behaving then the board member suddenly says "you are attacking NARA". 

Nope, don't hide behind the organization. 

I remember a Board member that attended a trial about a year ago at my place saying something similar to me when I said I think that NARA should recognize ARF trials and scoresbooks. This was after I just donated my field and it was on Sunday evening when we were finishing packing up and gathering the trash at the end of the 3 days. I just looked gave the person a look that meant "that was about the dumbest thing I've heard". The judge just started laughing and said "she just hosted this trial at her place!". But, since I disagreed with the Board member that was the canned reply "I must be a NARA hater" if I don't agree with every policy, etc.

I have sponsored several NARA events including one just last month. I also sponsor MR and Schutzhund and even yes AKC dog show events. I support people training and competing with dogs and showing good sportsmanship.

I disagree with how you and some SCABR members are hosting trials, judging trials and boycotting other clubs trials. 

I don't have a problem with NARA. I've met many honest and ethical NARA and ARF members that are in the sport for the right reasons. Not all are though. This thread was regarding the NARA W. Reg. Champ hosted by SCABRs that you are a member and not about the national organization, NARA.


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## Jeanne Meldrim (Mar 27, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Is it a neutral field for SCABR members? That is the question.
> 
> Not if 1 of you hasn't been there to train. Adrien goes there weekly to train dogs. It's not a secret. Larry asked me to spread the word even because he wants to be sure that Adrian has enough clients to be able to make it worth his while to continue coming.
> 
> I personally do not care, but for Kadi to say it's been neutral until ERD trial is not true. I know ringers have been training there with Adrien for months.


Debbie,

Laura Centeno asked me to post the following for her:

Valley Center field is not a SCABR training field. Adrian started training at Larry's 5 weeks ago, on Thursdays only. Larry, the owner of the property, is the only SCABR member training there on a regular basis; the other two regulars are not club members. Is this field neutral for SCABR members? NO, it's not neutral for anyone that has stepped on that field with their dog. SCABR has met at Larry's ONCE, no secret since it's in facebook, some members have been there twice, some have NEVER been there for training with their dogs.
Policy for Regionals doesn't require a neutral field.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeanne Meldrim said:


> Debbie,
> 
> Laura Centeno asked me to post the following for her:
> 
> ...


Yes, and some have been there many times. I never said every single member had ever been there at once or at all. I was talking of the ones that competed at ERD and will compete at the Regionals.

Of the 3 members of SCABRs that trialed at ERD trial, did they trained multiple times on Larry's field prior to the ERD open field? It's a local trial so it's not important except the truth is the truth. I feel it's okay for training fields and club fields to be used for club trials.

How many SCABRs have been training there since the ERD trial in preparation for the Regionals?

However, if many of the competitors that train with Adrien and plan to trial at the Regionals this weekend are training there already then they have an advantage over the other competitors that will just train on open field. 

I think that is why Schutzhund uses a school field and not a dog training field for the big events like Regional and Nationals. This way no one's dog is more familiar with the field than another competitor when it's a once a year event like Regionals or Nationals.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Sadly Leri Hansen is still needs to be invited to the neutral field.

Lets talk about "neutral" fields. Where did that term come from, and what could be the importance ?

If your dog is solid, and well prepared, the field is not going to matter, now is it ???

Yet, you always find some person whose nerve bag personality will force them to go out into the middle of the night to run one more send away in the dark, just so they can feel better.

The field is of little importance. The dog is either ready, or he is not. This whole goofy notion that somehow there might be a "home field" advantage is goofy, and a myth.

People on this board who obviously do not train dogs that get upset when rule violations, lies, half truths and what not are pointed out should think about this one thing. It is no longer a sport if there are no rules.

A funny example, one that I showed a friend of mine who could never ever stay within the rules when we played pick up basket ball.

He called a foul, because I dribbled the ball between his legs and ran around him. He decided that I had carried the ball. Obviously this is not carrying.

So, when I got the ball back, I checked it, faked left, and smashed the ball in his face, and scored the final, winning point.

Without rules there is no sport.


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Maybe your mommy & daddy should have given you more attention and hugs when you were young. Perhaps then you wouldn't have turned out to be the classless douche bag that you are.
> 
> Your opinion on ring means as much to me as your opinion of my parents. Feel free if you see my mother or father to mention that I am a classless douchebag. See how that works out for you. While you are at it, maybe you should actually learn about the sport before you spout off at the mouth.
> 
> Tell Frankie I said hi.


Ok Jeff I'll make sure to do as you say after all you are the self proclaimed Queen of NARA.=D>

Seek out a friend today, if you have any, or make friends with someone new and ask them for a hug.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Please point out where I said this is a neutral field? I said it is nobodies home field, I also said that many of the dogs who are going to be at the trial have already been on the field.
> .


Here is where your problem is:


> The field is a brand new field in the area that is used by some local agility and Schutzhund clubs as their home field,.


I couldn't figure out why you went on to contradict that first sentence in the next few lines until I read the whole paragraph a couple of times. I think Debbie thought you meant "new" as in neutral not "new" as in newly built. That's the way I read it at first too.

Seems to me that Deb is just saying that a it's not right to imply that a trial field is neutral when it isn't. She's not saying that a neutral field is a deal breaker. 

I for one look for new fields to compete on. I prefer to lose facing a serious challenge than win in EZ mode.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> Ok Jeff I'll make sure to do as you say after all you are the self proclaimed Queen of NARA.=D>
> 
> Seek out a friend today, if you have any, or make friends with someone new and ask them for a hug.


 
Jesus, your new to all this, correct.

I'm a friend of Jeff's


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Jesus, your new to all this, correct.
> 
> I'm a friend of Jeff's


I'm sorry to hear that Jerry. How unfortunate for you.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Your leader is my friend on face book. TAKE THAT JESUS ! ! ! !


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

...I'm more surprised that Jeff has a facebook than anything!


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

I don't know what's more shocking, that Jeff has friends or that he's on FB.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Regarding the Regionals (original topic). Is there a schedule of when the trial starts each day? 

Also, will the trial go in the traditional order of I, II, III or will the IIIs go first due to the expected high temps this weekend. Seems it always heats up for trials lately. 

I have 2 places to be this weekend, but want to try to come and support and buy some food and raffle tickets and be able to watch some of the IIIs if possible.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Here is where your problem is:
> 
> I couldn't figure out why you went on to contradict that first sentence in the next few lines until I read the whole paragraph a couple of times. I think Debbie thought you meant "new" as in neutral not "new" as in newly built. That's the way I read it at first too.
> 
> ...


Yes, I read new -- and was thinking neutral. You got into my head and clarified it quite well.


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## Erin Suggett (Nov 17, 2007)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Regarding the Regionals (original topic). Is there a schedule of when the trial starts each day?
> 
> Also, will the trial go in the traditional order of I, II, III or will the IIIs go first due to the expected high temps this weekend. Seems it always heats up for trials lately.
> 
> I have 2 places to be this weekend, but want to try to come and support and buy some food and raffle tickets and be able to watch some of the IIIs if possible.


The levels of competition will be in traditional order. There is also a schedule of events for each day which will be posted here (and elsewhere) by myself or another SCABR member sometime today. We also have a program which will be available at the event with all of the teams (+ photos) who have pre-entered and a description of their history/standings, jury info and bios (+ photos), and a brief description of French Ring and all of the excercises for our new friends and spectators who may not be familiar with the sport. On my way to the field to help set up for the event! Ciao for now!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Regarding the Regionals (original topic). Is there a schedule of when the trial starts each day?
> 
> Also, will the trial go in the traditional order of I, II, III or will the IIIs go first due to the expected high temps this weekend. Seems it always heats up for trials lately.
> 
> I have 2 places to be this weekend, but want to try to come and support and buy some food and raffle tickets and be able to watch some of the IIIs if possible.


Are you kidding me in french ring a judge will allow the 3 dogs to go first????







someone might have the seeds to ask for this favor ](*,):lol: that's insane if this is true!!!!!!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Old women Mike, the three's go first a lot. Don't want sparky to get hot.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Are you kidding me in french ring a judge will allow the 3 dogs to go first????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, actually it's not uncommon here in the Southwest nowadays when temps are in the triple digits. The program is longest in FRIII and they could get very overheated being out there for about 45-55 minutes and at 105+ that it gets here sometimes.. I don't know the regulations about this. 

10 years back when I trialed I don't recall ever rearranging the order ever, but then we held fall, winter and spring trials and not summer (June through Sept).


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I don't know what's more shocking, that Jeff has friends or that he's on FB.

What is shocking is you trying to come up with answers to FR questions. You have been doing this what, a month ? HA HA


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Erin Suggett said:


> The levels of competition will be in traditional order. There is also a schedule of events for each day which will be posted here (and elsewhere) by myself or another SCABR member sometime today. We also have a program which will be available at the event with all of the teams (+ photos) who have pre-entered and a description of their history/standings, jury info and bios (+ photos), and a brief description of French Ring and all of the excercises for our new friends and spectators who may not be familiar with the sport. On my way to the field to help set up for the event! Ciao for now!


Very cool! Glad my programs are catching on! Just kidding as I copied my idea from France (why reinvent the wheel!). Programs make events that much nicer I think. Thanks for answering.

Good luck to all the dogs!


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I should add that in addition to it being hottest here in SoCal in June-September, we always brought in French judges (no American Judges at that time) and the airline tickets are the most expensive in the summer months. From October on we could get deals. So it never even came up about switching order around. None of ever thought outside the box, but just did whatever the judge wanted for the trial.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Yes, actually it's not uncommon here in the Southwest nowadays when temps are in the triple digits. The program is longest in FRIII and they could get very overheated being out there for about 45-55 minutes and at 105+ that it gets here sometimes.. I don't know the regulations about this.
> 
> 10 years back when I trialed I don't recall ever rearranging the order ever, but then we held fall, winter and spring trials and not summer (June through Sept).


I do understand the length of time your on the field I dont understand the reasioning of summer triles a 1 is a 1, 3 is 3 why should the higher levals be handycaped. I can see heat being a problem, seems stupid to me to trial in the summer in weather thats dangerious to the animals, or the decoys for that matter. Why have a Championship if all cant be and show at there best.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I do understand the length of time your on the field I dont understand the reasioning of summer triles a 1 is a 1, 3 is 3 why should the higher levals be handycaped. I can see heat being a problem, seems stupid to me to trial in the summer in weather thats dangerious to the animals, or the decoys for that matter. Why have a Championship if all cant be and show at there best.


I am having trouble to understand all of your post. III is handicapped how? You mean when it's so hot. Letting them go first in the morning would be cooler and not a handicap. The weather has been weird here. We've had highs of 78-80 for the last weeks and now it's turning hot..triple digits they say starting tomorrow.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So you just handicap the younger dogs then. LOL


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I do understand the length of time your on the field I dont understand the reasioning of summer triles a 1 is a 1, 3 is 3 why should the higher levals be handycaped. I can see heat being a problem, seems stupid to me to trial in the summer in weather thats dangerious to the animals, or the decoys for that matter. Why have a Championship if all cant be and show at there best.


 
Well in speaking to Dominque Piton last weekend, I learned that in France the tradition has been to avoid scheduling trials in the hot summer months. I believe he said that trialling traditionally ended in June and began again in September. He finds it unfortunate that the newer generation of French Ring enthusiasts (as in French citizens) have begun to ignore this "break." In our conversations he repeatedly emphasized that respect for the dog is at the heart of traditional French Ring, and was very unhappy about the fact that dogs are lost to heat exhaustion because the traditional schedule is no longer observed. 

Given that, it seems to me that if a trial must be held where extreme hot weather is a concern, it would be acceptable to reverse the order and work the dogs with the most strenuous routines first. However, it also seems to me that for a French Ring National one would want to find a different venue where the temperatures ar cool all day rather than change the traditional running order. But what do I know? Me and Jesus are on the same bowling team.

Also, it's not just the dogs who are in danger in the heat. The decoys in their suits are in danger too. Ok, so I admit I'm more worried about my dog than I am worried about most people, but it is still a concern!


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So you just handicap the younger dogs then. LOL


We never had it come up because we never held trials during the hottest months and just ran the trials according to how the French judges wanted them run. But, again that was back in the day..


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Well in speaking to Dominque Piton.....


Being about the dog well that is what French Ring was always about when we played at it. Nowadays, I see dogs being put in downs in the sun on a hot day after working their hearts out. And the judge having to tell the competitors to put their dogs in the shade while they are waiting for "their" scores. Well it's the dog's score imo.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I love when you post Debbie, it just is so refreshing to see someone other than me busting people out for being the petty turds that they are. There are some REALLY nice people out there, and the turds are making dog sports really dumb right now.

I look at what you are dealing with, with the creeping dog control license thing as the same model of approach that the political people have in dog sports.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I love when you post Debbie, it just is so refreshing to see someone other than me busting people out for being the petty turds that they are. There are some REALLY nice people out there, and the turds are making dog sports really dumb right now.
> 
> I look at what you are dealing with, with the creeping dog control license thing as the same model of approach that the political people have in dog sports.


Will you be my facebook friend? :-\"

It's just disappointing how NARA has gotten farther and farther away from the spirit of ring "the dog" and made up regulations that keep imported dogs from competing, how long the dog must be here in the USA, who it is owned by, etc. But, the sport is suppose to be about the dog and not the handler/trainer/owner. I think if the dog is put first then a lot of the problems will resolve themselves. Dogs don't have egos.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Can someone sum this up for me? I forgot my reading glasses.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Like you can read. We all know your kid reads it to you, and then writes what you want said.


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## Lloyd Kasakoff (Jun 15, 2008)

God we miss French Ring.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is French Ring, and where can I make fun of it ? =D>=D>=D>


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## Erin Suggett (Nov 17, 2007)

Sorry for the delay...it's 1:30 in the morning now and I'm just returning from the field and from picking up the judge from a late flight arrival into San Diego. 

Basically the planned schedule for tomorrow is as follows:

• Start time: 9:00 a.m. 
• Ring I Dog In White
• Ring I's Compete
• Break For Lunch: 12:00/12:30 p.m. Mexican Food will be served at the field.
• Completion of Lunch (?)
• Ring II Dog In White
• Ring II's Compete
• End of Day 1 (?)

This is the schedule as planned for Day 1 (Saturday). 
Hopefully if there are any unforseen changes, they will be minor.

Schedule for Day 2 (Sunday)/Ring III's is slated to start early at 7:00 a.m. in order to beat the heat.

The judge is excited to be here for the first time in the United States and is looking forward to the trial.

Thanks and good luck to everyone!


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