# Targeting the Elbow



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Forgive the post if it has been done before. I have a Rottweiler in our group that has been taught to target the elbow. Other than electric and metal/plastic over the rear of the sleeve, does anyone have ideas on redirecting the bite? The clatter stick dropped over the rear helped on Sunday.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

depends on why the dog is going high. If it is because the sleeve is softer there I have used the Hardogs Chomp sleeve with some success. The Chomp is softer toward the middle helping keep the dog more centered.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Can the helper make a different presentation of the sleeve till it learns the elbow means a miss? 
Worked on a short line till the dog "gets it" of course.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob we have worked it on a back tie, soft sleeve, even "feeding" the front sleeve. I used a PVC clatter stick slapped down over the elbow and did a stare down, that worked. As I jumped backwards the dog went from a seated B & H to the correct bite. I just hate to use an e-collar or plastic over the elbow. The dog was trained this way before I got it. The clatter idea worked one time and we will see next week. Just looking for other ideas in case I not seeing everything.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

I’d exhaust every possible option before I’d address this with an e-collar or any other type of compulsion….. trying not to screw up the dog would be like trying to hit the Pick-6 two days in a row. 
I like the idea of preventing him from biting the area you don’t want with plastic or some other safe, non bitable material. I’d try posting the dog again, use a ton of frustration to wind him way up before “perfectly presenting” the modified sleeve to him.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Hey Howard, I know that sometimes we go through our bag of tricks to figure out what will work, but sometimes its better to just pick one method and do it over and over and over. When you get tired of doing it do it some more. I've seen dogs that've done this before, different things for different dogs work but it seems to me that the back tie really works well. Have the dog tied out and use a harder sleeve, sometimes the softer sleeve gets the dog to get chewy or to typewrite on the sleeve. Make a good presentation, you will probably have to make this dog bite where you want by your presentation. When he is on the bite stretch him out so tight that he CANNOT go to the elbow. Have it so tight that if he tries he looses the bite and you jump out of the pic. Then come back to him with alot of stimuli. Get him where you want him again and pull tight. When he's got a full grip where you want him then slip the sleeve to let him win. It may take awhile, but hopefully in time he will get it. Old and bad habits are sometimes hard to break. I know that you know this technique, I just wanted to run through it real quick. I haven't seen the dog but this is what I would try. For a while. I had one dog that started on the sleeve the same way, I forgot about the sleeve and went to the suit and problem fixed, don't know why but it worked, which made it easy for me. :razz: Good luck with whichever route you take.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

That's my boy.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Matt and Jay thanks for the ideas!

I did stretch him out two weeks ago and BROKE the snap clip that was attached to his collar and the tie out line. My butt feel backwards with a 105 pound, pissed to beat hell, highly defensive Rottweiler still on the sleeve and the padded stick in my right hand. All I saw were visions of my life flashing before my eyes!

Do you know that *Fruit of the Loom* makes some nice "skid proof" briefs?! The owner was able to get to her dog, Dozer on my web site. I'm going to try the method Matt threw out, all things before electric. Electric can set you back and I can sometimes run out of patience. Thanks again folks.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Forgive the post if it has been done before. I have a Rottweiler in our group that has been taught to target the elbow. Other than electric and metal/plastic over the rear of the sleeve, does anyone have ideas on redirecting the bite? The clatter stick dropped over the rear helped on Sunday.


He's been taught to target the elbow or he just goes for the elbow? I'm new to this forum and haven't read much so forgive me but I assume your dog is rather young? 

If he's going for the elbow then I would stop using the sleeve. Go back to a smaller prey item like a soft bite pillow and then move to a puppy sleeve and when he's biting AND gripping correctly move to the large sleeve.

Other things to work on is playing tun with the sleeve. Hold your hand so he can only bite it in the appropriate place. Short and Quick wins are essential when starting.

Hope this helps.

CM


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Nothing up my sleeve............tried another trick with the "A" frame and giving the dog the bite as he was coming up. The ONLY choice was the thing out front, middle of the sleeve as the back was further up. It's working and we will see again on Sunday. [-o<


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

sorry for not comprehending the entire thread before I replied. And now that I've read it, I would still go back to basic for a bit and use a smaller prey object to teach targeting. I would stop using the sleeve for a while to get him out of the habit of bite the elbow when he sees it. 

Like working with a poo eater... he can't eat it if it isn't there and eventually, they just get out of the habit.


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

Kinda like this?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Just like DAT!:razz:


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

That'a fun Pauline,
is that Nick?


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

Yep it's Nick. It's from a few years ago, back during my Malinois phase. It was fun!


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