# Dog Food



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I feed dry dog food and also give my dogs deer meat and soup bones. My question is about dry food. Whay are you feeding your working dog and why? And what do you think about Diamond Dog food? I can get most types. Is one better than another? What about fat content for o/s dogs?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> My question is about dry food. Whay are you feeding your working dog and why? And what do you think about Diamond Dog food? I can get most types. Is one better than another? What about fat content for o/s dogs?


No- or low-grain is better. Meat in the top two positions on the ingredients.

If I wanted to add fat, I would add fresh fat/oil (in the case of oil, I'd add an E capsule as well). The fat in kibble can be leftover restaurant fat (rancid), but, in any case, is chemically changed from raw fat.

Have you considered an all-fresh diet? It can be reasonable in price.

Diamond has a website that seems to me to obscure the ingredients list. At least, that's my memory of it, which made me cross them off my list. Do you have an ingredients list?


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

The ingredients are readily available on Diamond's web site, Connie. Just click on whichever food you're interested in and scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Diamond
Diamond Naturals

For people on a tight budget, I don't _mind_ recommending Diamond Naturals, but out of all of the DN formulas, I prefer the ones that have a meat and a meat meal listed as the first two ingredients. The others, that just have a meat meal followed by rice or barley, just don't seem like they have enough meat in them, IMO. DN is still a _bit_ grain-heavy, but it's a _sight_ better than the 'original' Diamond formulas, and again, IMO, is better than the other similar foods in the same price bracket.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> The ingredients are readily available on Diamond's web site, Connie. Just click on whichever food you're interested in and scroll down to the bottom of the page.
> 
> Diamond
> Diamond Naturals
> ...


Yep, you are correct. I guess it was another site that made it impossible to access the ingredient list.

However, this list is unimpressive, as you say:

Meat meal, ground corn, wheat flour, poultry by-product meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), beet pulp, fish meal, natural chicken flavor, vitamins, minerals and chelated minerals.

The "Naturals" are indeed better in the meat content.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> I prefer the ones that have a meat and a meat meal listed as the first two ingredients.


Ditto, Kristen.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I feed my dogs Canidae, and some raw, on average twice a week. I have a lot of dogs, and need to balance cost with a food that they all do well on, I just don't have time or the storage space to be dealing with 3 or 4 different types of food. They all do well on the Canidae, good stools, maintain weight, good energy, etc. I've used quite a few other foods, and usually most of the dogs will do well on it (I have a few that could do well on O'l Roy LOL) but one or two just won't thrive. I also buy in quantity, so I get a price break, which makes the Canidae pretty cost effective.

I've used some of the Diamond products from time to time, and the dogs did fine on it. I can't remember which ones it was though, kind of a case of being at the store, they were out of what I wanted so I needed to grab something else and the Diamond was there. I have friends who feed it though and are very happy with the results (one reason I grabbed a bag).


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Thanks to alot of help obtained from Connie (and Carmen)- I feed both my young working dogs 100% RAW. My pup has been on raw since he was weaned and he has grown into a very healthy muscular slow growing boy who's a year old now. I especially like how eating bones exercises their jaw muscles, stops them from wanting to chew on my stuff and keeps their teeth pearly white:grin: My older dogs (8 and 13) have now switched from Wellness to Wellness Core. I like the ingredients (protein sources/fat content) and they seem to be doing really well on it. The older ones had been eating raw for a little while and were looking really nice and had alot more energy but both of them are serious gulpers and after a few incidents with bones being lodged........I switched them to back to kibble. Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks#-o


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I feed my dogs Canidae, and some raw, on average twice a week. I have a lot of dogs, and need to balance cost with a food that they all do well on, I just don't have time or the storage space to be dealing with 3 or 4 different types of food. They all do well on the Canidae, good stools, maintain weight, good energy, etc. I've used quite a few other foods, and usually most of the dogs will do well on it (I have a few that could do well on O'l Roy LOL) but one or two just won't thrive. I also buy in quantity, so I get a price break, which makes the Canidae pretty cost effective.
> 
> .


MHO is that giving fresh raw even once or twice a week is a huge enhancement to any kibble diet. Also, Canidae is on the list of better kibbles (for me).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> Thanks to alot of help obtained from Connie (and Carmen)- I feed both my young working dogs 100% RAW. My pup has been on raw since he was weaned and he has grown into a very healthy muscular slow growing boy who's a year old now. I especially like how eating bones exercises their jaw muscles, stops them from wanting to chew on my stuff and keeps their teeth pearly white:grin: My older dogs (8 and 13) have now switched from Wellness to Wellness Core. I like the ingredients (protein sources/fat content) and they seem to be doing really well on it. The older ones had been eating raw for a little while and were looking really nice and had alot more energy but both of them are serious gulpers and after a few incidents with bones being lodged........I switched them to back to kibble. Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks#-o


Yeah, I have one that I have the weight-bearing bones ground up for (no charge by the butcher) and give him only the front end of chicken for un-ground RMBs.

I think Wellness Core is a very good product. I even added some cans of Wellness Core to the THK that I keep on hand for running-out-of-meat, travel, and power outages.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I know that feeding lamb should be the last option as some dogs have allergies to grain, chicken, or beef. High protien diets amp up my Border Collies. I can't keep weight on a 2 yo Bouvier, male. Nothing wrong with him.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Does anyone have any experience with this
It is also made by Diamond - I have heard some mixed reviews.

http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/products/

I am about to pull my hair out with Toby - (Mr. Chicken Allergy) we got two years on ONE and Purina Pro Plan sensivite systems and he is starting to break out again. I may try the fish formula just in case he is senstized to the grain in the Pro Plan not the Salmon (rather than do another elimiation diet because we did not *everything* out there)

Cyra and Grim could thrive on anything, I am convinced, but I would like to get away from the animal digest and menadione.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I gave Taste of the Wild a try a couple of months ago when I was trying to find a food that would make Jak put on some weight. It didn't work for that (nothing has, so far), but I didn't have any problems with it. I bought the 'Roasted Wild Fowl' formula. 

The cat food actually tastes pretty good - better than any other cat food I've tried.  :lol: :lol: Both of my cats went gaga for it, too, and they don't usually jump all over dry food like that.





Howard, what high protein foods have you tried that 'amp up' your Border Collies? The _source_ of protein has a lot to do with that.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> Thanks to alot of help obtained from Connie...I feed both my young working dogs 100% RAW. My pup has been on raw since he was weaned and he has grown into a very healthy muscular slow growing boy who's a year old now. I especially like how eating bones exercises their jaw muscles, stops them from wanting to chew on my stuff......


 

ME TOO!!! I will forever be grateful to Connie for her expertise and patience in "holding my hand" as I made the jump to a RAW diet. I was sooooo nervous about doing something wrong and ending up with a malnourished, rickety dog, I don't think I would have been able to do it without her help., which would have been a real shame for my dog.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I was sooooo nervous about doing something wrong and ending up with a malnourished, rickety dog,.


I was sooooo slow and scared when I stopped buying commercial foods.... took me a year (remember, this was pre-internet) to go from cooked-with-calcium-supplements to real raw.

Each step, from the bad pre-adoption kibble to Wellness canned to home-cooked to raw encouraged me to take the next step, as I watched ear infections, flaky coats, "dog-smell," skin pruritis, bad breath, and more fade away. 

Then with RMBs I saw dental plaque actually reverse..... not just stop accumulating, but start to reverse.


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

The RMB/dental plaque reversal is so true. My 10 1/2 yr old JRT has WHITE teeth. Prior to the raw days she had horrible breath and tartar encrusted teeth. I hated having to have her anesthesized to have the plaque removed. Then her teeth started getting encrusted again soon after the cleaning. I decided to try raw. Her teeth whitened back up very soon afterwards. Ever since then the RMBs and higher quality diet have kept her teeth clean.


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## Elliot Parker (Jan 7, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> MHO is that giving fresh raw even once or twice a week is a huge enhancement to any kibble diet. Also, Canidae is on the list of better kibbles (for me).


I used to feed Innova Evo and then switched to Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. Both grain free/low-carb/high protein. Would you still reccomend that I feed raw once or twice to enhance his diet. I thought I heard before that you should not feed raw and kibble due to different times it takes to digest. 

-Elliot


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

When I feed raw, that is their meal. When I feed kibble, that's their meal. On occasion I will give a dog I'm trying to put some weight on a chicken quarter along with their kibble, but I don't see that as any different then giving them a plate full of leftovers, or adding other stuff to kibble (cottage cheese, canned food, etc). Each item probably digests at a different rate.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Each item probably digests at a different rate.


This is true. As dogs have simple stomachs and a simple GI tract, they digest fresh food in about 5-6 hours or slightly longer. Kibble can take 2-3 times as long.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Elliot Parker said:


> I used to feed Innova Evo and then switched to Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. Both grain free/low-carb/high protein. Would you still reccomend that I feed raw once or twice to enhance his diet. I thought I heard before that you should not feed raw and kibble due to different times it takes to digest.
> 
> -Elliot


I still believe that they shouldn't be fed in the same meal (ideally). It's probably not a huge problem, but so far, no one has convinced me that kibble doesn't slow the transit time of any raw meat added to it. As others mentioned, kibble has a MUCH longer transit time than fresh food.

Cooked leftovers, yogurt, etc., I don't really care about the wide difference in normal transit time compared to kibble. But RMBs, I do, because one of the weapons against pathogen infection that dogs have is their fast digestion..... way less opportunity for pathogens to colonize. (Another is their very caustic stomach acid.) They CAN be infected with E.coli, salmonella, etc., though, so my idea is not to do anything that disrupts their natural protection.

JMO.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

You know I cant find the source - I think it was on Leerburg but someone suggested NOT feeding raw one meal and kibble the next because the stomach produces acid based on the diet being eaten and the raw fed dogs stomach is more acid. (which is great because it kills the bacteria that our stomachs would not)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> You know I cant find the source - I think it was on Leerburg but someone suggested NOT feeding raw one meal and kibble the next because the stomach produces acid based on the diet being eaten and the raw fed dogs stomach is more acid. (which is great because it kills the bacteria that our stomachs would not)


That would seem to me to be reasoning for not mixing the two in one meal .... ?


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## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

I have been feeding Wellness CORE ocean to my police K-9 with great results. I also add some grizzly salmon oil and "K-9 Superfuel" from K9 power.com. I love getting him out for weekly training and hearing other handlers say under thier breath...."Wow that dog is jacked", "Wow he looks good." He hits like a freight train! Since the job won't pay for such a high priced food:roll: I have to pay out of pocket and give the ProPlan Performance to the local shelter.:mrgreen:


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I have been feeding Diamand Naturals to my non-performing dogs since it came out. They do well on it and never refuse to eat it, must be palletable enough. I have not noticed any health issues besides maybe dry skin, but could be the dog. I add a little salmon oil on top a few days a week and call it good. My working dogs are on Pinnacle, it was between Pinnacle and Taste of the Wild. Pinnacle had less ingrediants and cost slightly less, so I went with it. I was feeding RAW and thought my dog was having a food allergy to Chicken, turned out to be flax, so we are back to eatting chicken for the protein. Pinnacle also has, duck or fish fromulas for dogs with allergies. I had my boy on Solid Golds BATM and he wouldn't eat it after 3 days and had the squirts something fierce. Gave the non-performer the rest of that and switched it up again. I still feed RAW when I can, but now I have a new pup and trying to keep things simpler and costs down. Thanks to the damn price of groceries sky rocketting, I can barely buy meat for myself. I feed allot of canned fish, salmon oil and eggs. Chicken 1/4's are cheap too but have gone up $1.50 per 10lbs. I'm still pissed and boycotting!


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I feed dry dog food and also give my dogs deer meat and soup bones. My question is about dry food. Whay are you feeding your working dog and why? And what do you think about Diamond Dog food? I can get most types. Is one better than another? What about fat content for o/s dogs?


I am a raw feeder, but the other dogs that work at my mountain have switched to a grain free formula kibble and like the results:

http://www.horizonpetfood.com/Products/dog_legacy.html

It is likely pretty similar to other no grain products. 

I personally try to up the fat content for my dog in the winter. I beleive this makes a bigger difference to my dogs energy levels than upping protein or quantities of food.

If I fed this grain free kibble I would think about feeding some puppy formula (higher fat) in the winter season as it is when we are busiest and the conditions are the most harsh.


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## Leslie Patterson (Mar 6, 2008)

I am always changing the kibble I feed. I use EVO the most. With the puppy I have been feeding him Innova lrg breed puppy, orijen lrg breed puppy, California Natural and Merrick. The other 2 I feed EVO and Innova lrg breed adult.
I was feeding one Orijen Fish, which he seemed to be doing great on with all his food sensitivities and allergies but then he had gastric dilatation-volvulus on it so I couldn't bring to use it anymore with him.
I also feed EVO can and Tripett.


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## Chase Mika (May 2, 2008)

I've gone the grain-free route with both my dogs. One is on Orijen regular and the other is on Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. Both are doing fantastic. My plan is to put them both on the same one eventually and then rotate between the two kinds a little. I also add in a little canned EVO 95% beef or venison.

For a kibble that doesn't cost quite as much and is grain-inclusive, my favorite is probably Eagle Pack, especially their Holistic line. It's a great product and I've been very impressed with the company. They make their own products at their own facilities and their nutritionist has been very forthcoming and helpful when it comes to questions.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Leslie Patterson said:


> I am always changing the kibble I feed. I use EVO the most. With the puppy I have been feeding him Innova lrg breed puppy, orijen lrg breed puppy, California Natural and Merrick. The other 2 I feed EVO and Innova lrg breed adult.
> I was feeding one Orijen Fish, which he seemed to be doing great on with all his food sensitivities and allergies but then he had gastric dilatation-volvulus on it so I couldn't bring to use it anymore with him.
> I also feed EVO can and Tripett.


That's probably one of the best things you can do is rotate what you feed. If I were doing kibble, I'd find 3-4 brands to rotate through, but keep in mind that you want to retain a few varieties up your sleeve in case someone may be showing signs of food allergies. 

And FYI on the Wellness CORE: their canned is for supplemental feeding only, meaning its not formulated for everyday maintenance. In other words, you can't feed the Wellness CORE salmon (or whatever) every day day in and day out. The 95% meat canned diets are great, but read the AAFCO statement and see what it's for (and not for). Some are AAFCO formulated via feeding trials (most of Natura's products like Evo and California Natural), some are not tested with feeding trials but are AAFCO formulated (like Nature's Variety 95%), and some are only for supplemental, like canned Wellness CORE. Some are also all life stages and some are only for adult maintenance.


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

I use to buy Evo but recently I switched to Orijen. I like how “fresh” their food is but the only problem is that they are such a small family company that you can’t always depend on them being in stock. I have gone to get food and two or three times they have been totally out of the “Fresh Fish Formula” which is what I feed my dogs.
But I like the amount they have of everything: 70% meat 30% Fruits, Veggies, botanicals
I’d love to see if anyone else has tried this brand and what they thought!

Their website: http://championpetfoods.com/orijen/products/ORIJEN6fish.aspx


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I do use Diamond's corn-free formulas from time-to-time. When switching to Diamond from Canidae or grain-free kibble, I notice a big increase in body odor, shedding and if it's for any length of time, their coat colors fade noticeably.

It is the lowest quality my dogs can go without getting loose/soft stools.

For grain-free kibble, I'm liking "Taste of the Wild." From what I can tell it's a prey-model kibble.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> I’d love to see if anyone else has tried this brand and what they thought!
> 
> Their website: http://championpetfoods.com/orijen/products/ORIJEN6fish.aspx


I think quite a few folks here feed it. I convinced my sister to switch her dog, a 9 year old malinois x with farm dog next door, and he is doing very well. He had been on Nutro Lamb and Rice his whole life prior.


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## Llandry Sttein (12 mo ago)

I have a pretty dog. She is an essential part of my family. That is why I am always looking for any good information to help me take care of her. Recently, I read a blog on* Fast ESA Lette*r where I learned that Large Breed Adult Chicken & Brown Rice Recipe, Royal Canin dry food, BLUE's exclusive life source bits, and more are best for Golden Retriever dogs. I tried some of them, and guess what? My dog enjoyed it when I fed her. She is enjoying treats as well as getting better. That was all I wanted for her.


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