# Question pertaining to French Ring/PSA



## J Ramanujam (Dec 30, 2007)

The club that I currently train at works French Ring and PSA dogs. I would very much like to participate in both with my pup, but I've got a couple questions about it...

I was out training with the club yesterday, and these guys were telling me about the different grips that the different sports would like - ie. FR wants a dog to do immediate outs, and the grip isn't judged as harshly as PSA, where the dog has to have amazing grips, and the out doesn't have to be exactly polished - it occurred to me that I could either really confuse my dog with all of this, or, I could just lose points... 

I.E. one sport could be my bastard child and I could pay a little less attention to it.

Which, in my opinon, kinda sucks, and I wouldn't really -want- to do that.. so I was wondering what you guys recommend.

What else are we going to face that compromises training for PSA when it comes to French Ring, or vice versa?

... because maybe I can just toss in a few extra commands... (I mean, later, you know, but it's worth it to think about it now.)

I was told about how one trainer these guys know had two different bite commands - one = 'kill' and one = 'you're going to have to out,' so, something along those lines might work... orrr... 

I dunno. I'd like to hear what you guys think about that, as I -do- want to train for both sports, but I don't really want one to suffer because of the other. So, what should I watch for?

And don't worry about the 'difficulty of training concepts'... I'm just looking for suggestions. I like 'difficult' training. I'm good at it. No sugar, please.


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## Jeremy Norton (Apr 4, 2007)

I'd trust the cats in your club, as they're some of the rare birds familiar/participating/training for both PSA and FR. Jason has likely gained good insights tranfering Bas from PSA to ring.

My thoughts are that the fundamentals aren't exclusive: clarity and comprehension should be goals for any sport. Teaching a dog to out directly on the command BUT/AND not to anticipate the command (which, in PSA, with the steward/judge's bellowed command, then the decoy's freeze, can trigger early outs by dogs overly conditioned for cause/effect patterns) is just good training.

Have fun and train well; the rest is gravy...


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I don't see why you can't do grip work to promote full grips in your dog, and have FR style outs. 

These photos are of my two current FR competition dogs, both who have perfect outs on most of their protection exercises. NOTE: I did say MOST not ALL LOL Chaos tends to be a little more "perfect" then Mac, although both were buttheads in their last trial. But it can be done, if the dog is clear on what is required of them.

Chaos









Mac


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