# Boxing is more satisfying than MMA



## Guest (Aug 1, 2010)

This is fact. It's even alluded to in the bible...somewhere in the back I think.

For as many coked-up tools there are in the UFC, you'll never the satisfaction of seeing any one of them getting _handled for over 30 minutes._

That's what boxing has...the wars.

Who doesn't enjoy seeing someone like Muhammad Ali FINALLY get his stool pushed in by Joe Frazier....or any of the other similar situations. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWc1whATYNM

MMA is like chess with too many goddamn pieces. Somebody always has somebody else's number. Boxing has dominant players who reign for a while, and then we celebrate their bitter and theatrical falls.

I was thinking about this when I was reminded of that fool Naseem Hamed getting handled by Marco Antonio Barrera for 30 minutes.

You got this wormy, intuitive, smug, entitled jerk managing to not lose for a long time, and then a straight-up disciplined orthodox boxer comes and schools him. Such a satisfying feeling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg2buoyIHY8

Or just when you think some optimism is warranted for Mike Tyson...nope. He's catastrophically disassembled with a period at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECeIdlWBFfg

I'm not sure how Roy Jones Jr. had any fans...ever...but his finesse and style being crumpled by Bernard Hopkins' relentless attrition is like a fairy tale. If I have a daughter eventually, she will learn of these fights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx187jOmRv4&feature=related

Don't bother disagreeing. Thanks.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

No disagreement!
I watched boxing as far back as the early 50s and was a huge follower of Ali, Durant, Sugar Ray Lenard, Hagler, Herns,Camacho, Foster, etc in the 60-70-80s.
What I will say, boxing or MMA, are both about styles. 
Ali was unbeatable in his day but kenny Norton (Not so great IMHO) always gave Ali trouble. 
Sugar Ray fought Durant's fight and lost. He fought his own fight and Durant couldn't touch him. 
They all avoided Hagler in his prime.
BTW, Rocky Marciano was nothing more then a heavy handed bum. JMHO of course!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2010)

You might as well lock the thread then. :!:


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

I'll bother to disagree. "Chess with too many goddamn pieces"? More than two hands to watch a little too complicated for you to follow?  No one has had Georges St. Pierre's, Anderson Silva's, or Brock Lesnar's number for quite a while. You want satisfaction? Watch some smug bastard get choked out or have to cry uncle and tap out. Not knocked out, stopped by the doctor or their corner, but having to give up in front of everyone, admit their inability to continue, and their tacit inferiority. That's satisfaction.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol: Just a discussion, not a disagreement! ;-)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I just don't see MMA being anywhere close to as inspiring as the ALI FRASIER fight.

They are good athletes and all, but it is kinda dull to watch. The other thing is that once they get knocked out a couple of times, they get the glass jaw going, and it is done.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I just don't see MMA being anywhere close to as inspiring as the ALI FRASIER fight.
> 
> They are good athletes and all, but it is kinda dull to watch. The other thing is that once they get knocked out a couple of times, they get the glass jaw going, and it is done.



Ali Frasier were great fights. I saw all of them on closed cir at the movie houses WAAAY before pay for view. 

The greatest thing about Ali (aside from his skills) was that he brought the public back to boxing as much about his controversy as because he put boxing back on the map after the 50s era of mob control and fixed fights. 
You'll see the same "glass jaw" syndrome in boxing.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes, but the glass jaw happens real quick in MMA.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Quality boxing really depends on weight class you are talking about. There are a couple of weight classes are so boring that watching grass grow would be more interesting. Some of the boxers that have been named - are there really the same caliber of fighters boxing today as back then - I don't think so!

Not saying all MMA is great but the elite is something to watch.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2010)

Yeah, heavy weights are a non-issue these days.

But the last 15 years have had plenty of entertaining fighters in the other weight classes.


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Yes, but the glass jaw happens real quick in MMA.


Glass jaws are born not made. You know not what you speak of.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I like watching MMA, but I really enjoy watching boxing. Like Bob, I remember some of the older fighters. I still think Marvelous Marvin beat Leonard, both times. Who can dispute the prowess of fighters like Ward, Gatti, Paquio, Diaz, Marquez. Which was one heck of PPV last night. 

DFrost


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

David Frost said:


> I like watching MMA, but I really enjoy watching boxing. Like Bob, I remember some of the older fighters. I still think Marvelous Marvin beat Leonard, both times. Who can dispute the prowess of fighters like Ward, Gatti, Paquio, Diaz, Marquez. Which was one heck of PPV last night.
> 
> DFrost


Didn't Gatti end up getting choked to death by his wife? What a shame that such a beast/legend lost his lives to the bare hands of a woman


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

It was something like that, don't recall exactly. Saw Irish Mickey on TV yesterday. They are doing a movie about his life. 

DFrost


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

People who prefer boxing are kinda like the people who prefer Schutzhund and German Shepherds....just sayin.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I prefer boxing and don't have a clue about schutzhund. 

DFrost


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

David, Leonard beat Hagler in their only fight it was a split decision and one of those that ranks up there with Ali & Smokin Joe.
Hagler wanted a second fight, a rematch but Leonard, who had come out of retirement to fight him the first time never wanted to oblige so Hagler never got the second chance.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Lance Dior said:


> Glass jaws are born not made. You know not what you speak of.


You think so? These guys that get knocked out cold in mms 2 times tend to get knocked out easier and easier? Forest griffin the biggest expample. Now chuck Liddell is in the same boat. Matt Hughes also, just seems much easier to wabble Hughes with a lot less


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Lance Dior said:


> Glass jaws are born not made. You know not what you speak of.


A little research into post-concussion syndrome might change your mind. One interesting (to me at least) article & phenomenon:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athlete.brains/index.html

-Cheers


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

Timothy Stacy said:


> You think so? These guys that get knocked out cold in mms 2 times tend to get knocked out easier and easier? Forest griffin the biggest expample. Now chuck Liddell is in the same boat. Matt Hughes also, just seems much easier to wabble Hughes with a lot less


Forrest has and always will be a B level fighter. He was spoon fed all of his opportunities because he was the first TUF winnner otherwise he'd never have made it to the big leagues.

Chuck is getting older hence is reaction time is getting slower. People also figured out his style (his has strong hands but untechnical) and are capitalizing. He hasn't been knocked out from a weak punch.

Your chin is what it is. It doesn't get weaker over time. Post concussion syndrome has nothing to do with your chin


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Butch Cappel said:


> David, Leonard beat Hagler in their only fight it was a split decision and one of those that ranks up there with Ali & Smokin Joe.
> Hagler wanted a second fight, a rematch but Leonard, who had come out of retirement to fight him the first time never wanted to oblige so Hagler never got the second chance.


You're right of course, he only fought the Marvelous one, once. I still think he won. He fought Haglar twice and I think that was a split. The judges gave him both fights. Leonard was a runner, I hate runners, ha ha. I was never a fan. 

DFrost


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

David Frost said:


> You're right of course, he only fought the Marvelous one, once. I still think he won. He fought Haglar twice and I think that was a split. The judges gave him both fights. Leonard was a runner, I hate runners, ha ha. I was never a fan.
> 
> DFrost


Hey David, you're not the only one. Leonard conceded Haglar won, and while Leonard was technically sound in how he fought that fight I _hated_ it. I like Haglar's style much better.

I also think the Hagler vs. Hearns fight was amazing. More decisive, and they both came out and gave it their all.

-Cheers


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> People who prefer boxing are kinda like the people who prefer Schutzhund and German Shepherds....just sayin.


Should we start calling it "Gay" Boxing for Jeff O.? :-D


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> People who prefer boxing are kinda like the people who prefer Schutzhund and German Shepherds....just sayin.


I think it is a difference of the speed and length of the matches. MMA matches are over fairly quick. There are usually three rounds, less if you get a submission or stoppage. Boxing generally has >10 rounds, usually you take more punches, and it's more of a grind. It's kind of like comparing a sprint to a triathlon, or racing your bike around the neighborhood vs. something like the Tour de France. Not a great analogy, but you can see it in the different kinds of endurance, the body weight and build of MMAers vs. Boxers (if you're going 10-12 rounds you generally probably can't afford to carry any extra weight, even muscle weight, but a lot of MMAers look very built, although the World's Strongest Man Pud suffered greatly with his excess muscle in MMA).

I like them both, but grew up watching some great Boxing matches. Unfortunately, there aren't any Ali vs. Frasier, Ali vs. Foreman, Hagler vs. Hearns all out grudge fests or gritty epic match ups readily apparent these days. I think most would love to see a Mayweather vs. Pacquiao match, but it does seem more and more like Mayweather is dodging Pac, which sucks (and makes it much harder for him to state he's the best right now, much less _ever_). Hence, due to the matchups, right now MMA does seem to have a bit more upside and possibly greater appeal (especially at large).

-Cheers


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I started watching boxing in the 70s when Al Bernstien just got started. I think it was on ESPN the first time I saw him. Did a little myself back then and still workout at home now and then. Been hitting the same heavy bag since the mid 80s


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard said;
" Been hitting the same heavy bag since the mid 80s."

:-k :-k How long did you say you were married? :-o :-#:-# :wink:


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I am going to say...The Thai have both Boxing and MMA beat. Mauy thai is so much faster than boxing, so much more technical than MMA....And in Thailand if they piss foot around. The Refree will stop the fight and call it a no contest. 

I love it when they announce a guy in MMA with a good stand up....Every fighter in MMA has shitty stand up. All the shitty mauy thai fighter that cannot hack it in K1. go to the UFC....the only fighter in the UFC that ever had "great" stand up was maurice smith.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2010)

Thai boxing is too brutal to have old guys doing it.

Without old guys and has-beens you can't have come-backs, upsets, etc etc.

In other words, the intangibles.

You can't toss boxers into these other venues and expect them to be competitive. "Better" at the mechanics of hurting people is not the point at all here.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> Thai boxing is too brutal to have old guys doing it.
> 
> Without old guys and has-beens you can't have come-backs, upsets, etc etc.
> 
> ...


Thaiboxing is way less brutual than boxing...and I will tell you why. First. The scoring system. kicks and knees trump punches and elbows in Muay Thai. So the fighters will try to land kicks and knees more. Which generally are to the body. 

The fights are only 5 rounds long. compared to twelve rounds in boxing where the majority of the blows are to where? the head. Mauy Thai...they are to the body. so less rounds with minority of the strikes going to the head. Boxing more rounds (over double) and with majority of the going to the head. 

Also in Thailand. They will not stop a fight due to a cut. Blood does not scare the thai people. It scares the hell out of Americans. Blood is nothing, a cut does not cause brain damage. getting a concussion does cause permant brain damage. In Thailand when they see a boxer get wobbled, they usually stop it real soon they will protect the boxer from getting hurt BEFORE the knock out. if they see a mismatch...they stop it. even if no real damage is done. They do not let fights go one that are lopsided even if there has been no real damage inflicted yet. Again they protect the boxer. I have watched american boxing where a guy gets wobbled....and counted 30 plus punches that go un answered before a wave off. MMA I counted 60 plus punches from shane carwin to broc lesners head with no answer except the fetal position from Lesnar. when you see a guy ball up on the next fight you watch...count....American refrees in both sports...suck balls.

Also, in a twelve round boxing bout....how many punches to the head? it's triple digits on average
in a five round mauy thai fight- how many to the head. 

MMA you can punch a guys head when he is lying on the mat....in boxing and Thai boxing...The head can move asorbing some of the punishment. On the deck....the head has nowhere to go so it asorbs everything.

And Thailand has legacy fights all the time. Thai fighters can have well over 200 fights in thier career and walk away from the sport being able to speak....Ali had 61 fights. Riddick bowe cannot even talk anymore... 

Sangtiengnoi had over 200 bouts in his mauy thai career and except for the scars on his head and face he's fine.

Orono was/is considered one of the most savage thai fighters ever....over 300 bouts. he has no trauma induced parkisons or speech problems. 

I can list a ton of boxers with obvious brain damage. I know mauy thai like the back of my hand, and I cannot think of one fighter with major brain damage like boxing causes.

Also Muay Thai in Thailand the boxers generally are 147 lbs or less. With most fights happening at the 122 lbs weight class...little guys have a harder time causing brain damage.the bigger weight classes are generlaly not as competetive and if they are it's where the legacy fights happen....all the old guys fight at 154 or higher.

And most of all the question was, which is more satisfying, now which is more marketable. And we do not have peps like Ramon Dekker anymore that are world class and we can relate to. Americans have a hard time rooting for dark complexed asians who do not speak english and that are muslim or bhuddists.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2010)

Nope. Wrong.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2010)

It's a young/small person's venue. 

No Rockies and George Foremans in muay thai. Sorry.

If you need a geeks proprietary knowledge to "get it", then it's...something not as cool and romantic as boxing.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> It's a young/small person's venue.
> 
> No Rockies and George Foremans in muay thai. Sorry.
> 
> If you need a geeks proprietary knowledge to "get it", then it's...something not as cool and romantic as boxing.


*HEART OF MUAYTHAI*
AMERICAN JAMES DOWNEY WINS AT BANGKOK'S HISTORIC RAJADAMNERN MUAYTHAI STADIUM. DOWNEY IS THE FIRST AMERICAN TO FIGHT - AND WIN - AT THAILAND'S "HEART OF MUAYTHAI". On Thursday, January 6, 2000 James "Knock`em Down" Downey did what no other American has ever done. Fighting in his professional debut at Bangkok's famous Rajadamnern Stadium, the 21 year old Muaythai fighter from Racine (WI) not only became the first American to ever fight at Rajadamnern- he also became the first American to win at Rajadamnern. The victory improves Downey's overall record to 12-1, 6 ko's (pro record :1-0, 1 ko). His 20 year old Thai opponent Konsan T.Pitakgolghan brought 35 professional fights into the ring. Both fighters weighed in at 154 lbs./70 kgs. Downey followed the Thai tradition by taking on the ring name "Sit Kongnapa Kiet Phetnoi" which means "student of Kongnapa and Phetnoi Gym". He took the name to honor his trainer Kongnapa Kiet Phetnoi (4-time Rajadamnern Stadium Champion & current Jr. Middleweight World Champion). The event was promoted by Mr. Wiwat Phetnoi. Those who stayed after the main event were treated to an awesome Junior Middleweight battle. The fight started fast and furious, as the Thai tested Downey's blocking and defense, with an onslaught of powerful kicks and crafty elbows. 
Thank You, Duke Roufus


I do not think I am a geek to know it.....I lived it. I "got it" by doing "it"


And there are Big guys whom have fought muay thai....I still cannot think of one whom had major brain damage. Also for the big guys you can dive into K1...not really mauy thai. But close. No elbows, no clinch. 
Duke Roufus
Maurice Smith
Rob cayman
Champuak
Peter Aerts
Mike Moore
Mitch ohello
Stan Longinidius.


But bring up little guys and boxing and brain damage...you do not have to dig to deep. Freedy Roach is in the spot light these days....fought at light weight. just over 50 fights.... has trauma induced parkisons.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2010)

James, I'm sorry. The answer, once again, is no.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> James, I'm sorry. The answer, once again, is no.


Ok... Just no. No supporting arguments? You could be the worst debater ever.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2010)

No, u r! I was very clear about contrary opinions in the first post.








http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/original/comic book guy.jpg


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

so your sticking with that Boxing and MMA are more exciting due to there can be comebacks and old guys fight each other? And this cannot happen in Muay Thai because it's more brutual? Which is a myth. And I posted few arguments to support my Belief....You did not. You just stated that you believe it's to brutual. 

And now you are seriously the reigning champion of shitty debating.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2010)

Go elsewhere with this thai boxing agenda, Jim.

And on John McCain's authority, the UFC is deemed to be human cock fighting.

Take THAT.


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

Steven Lepic said:


> Go elsewhere with this thai boxing agenda, Jim.
> 
> And on John McCain's authority, the UFC is deemed to be human cock fighting.
> 
> Take THAT.


Obvious troll is obvious. I'm having flashback to 1999 John Mccain is the enemy of MMA, muay thai vs. boxing, striking vs grappling, can strikes give you brain damage, etc.

Who do you guys think would win in a fight: Rickson Gracie vs Brock Lesnar

I got Rickson by armbar 1:20 rd 1


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

HAHA.

You have proven yourself a worthy adversary, And I was foolish to doubt you skills.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Lance Dior said:


> Obvious troll is obvious. I'm having flashback to 1999 John Mccain is the enemy of MMA, muay thai vs. boxing, striking vs grappling, can strikes give you brain damage, etc.
> 
> Who do you guys think would win in a fight: Rickson Gracie vs Brock Lesnar
> 
> I got Rickson by armbar 1:20 rd 1


 
Everyone knows it's you Delta Foxtrot. You cannot come in here in a disguise and then just behave like yourself. You are now the undisputed worst troll ever champion.


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

James Downey said:


> Everyone knows it's you Delta Foxtrot. You cannot come in here in a disguise and then just behave like yourself. You are now the undisputed worst troll ever champion.


Delta Foxtrot? I don't speak cop. No comprendo


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

You know what it means.

And the Mighty Boosch really?


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

??? What is the Might Bush? 

I'm confused. Too many inside jokes and catchy lingo around here


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Ok...Just keep playing stupid. I think no one will notice. (and when no else is looking....Wink, wink)


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

James Downey said:


> Ok...Just keep playing stupid. I think no one will notice. (and when no else is looking....Wink, wink)


Thomas Barriano mentioned something about Mighty Bush earlier. Stacey Timothy accused me of being a KKM. No comprendo. You people here are weird


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

James Downey said:


> I am going to say...The Thai have both Boxing and MMA beat. Mauy thai is so much faster than boxing, so much more technical than MMA....And in Thailand if they piss foot around. The Refree will stop the fight and call it a no contest.
> 
> I love it when they announce a guy in MMA with a good stand up....Every fighter in MMA has shitty stand up. All the shitty mauy thai fighter that cannot hack it in K1. go to the UFC....the only fighter in the UFC that ever had "great" stand up was maurice smith.


Cro-cop and Mark Hunt say hi.


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> Cro-cop and Mark Hunt say hi.


LOL @ Cro-cop having great stand up. Wanderlei exposed him YEARS ago. A heavy weight couldn't finish a 200lb fighter in 20 minutes? Ninja please


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Lance Dior said:


> LOL @ Cro-cop having great stand up. Wanderlei exposed him YEARS ago. A heavy weight couldn't finish a 200lb fighter in 20 minutes? Ninja please


Dude, Cro-cop has beaten the following people to name but a few.

Jerome le Banner
Mike Bernado
Sam Grecco
Mark Hunt
Peter Aerts

You dont beat Le Banner, Hunt and Aerts unless you have good stand up.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> Cro-cop and Mark Hunt say hi.


 
Crocop and Hunt really are not all that good compared to a mauy thai champion from one of the 2 major stadiums in Thailand. Or a even a legit boxing champion. They are good compared to any MMA fighter. but they do not even begin to be as good as man whom has had 200 or more stand up striking fights. it's just impossible. They have to much experience. Now I am not saying that they are not good what they do. But MMA striking is ****ing sloppy shit....even by the so-called great strikers.

These are 2 greats....actually the guy in the blue lives in San fran now

And the dude in the pink is considered one of the more vicious fighters ever
But crocop and hunts look like amatuers compared to these guys. Nothing against them they are champs in there sport. But Muay Thai is 100 more entertaining than MMA.
I think MMA will catch up, but it's still just a baby sport. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BC7CXDOREo

By no means are crocop and hunts punks....I admire them deeply. but I laugh when the annoucers try to convince the crowd what they are seeing is clean, text book striking...when it's just really, really sloppy muay Thai.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Joe Rogen is the worst at too. Hetalks as if what your seeing is the pinnacale of striking...he claimed marco Ruas was one of the best Mauy thai Fighters on the planet. Nope, sorry Joe. a lot of striking bouts in MMA are not won because the MMA fighter is great striking....he usally wins because the other dude is awful at defense or countering. Again it's just really sloppy boxing.


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> Dude, Cro-cop has beaten the following people to name but a few.
> 
> Jerome le Banner
> Mike Bernado
> ...


Jerome has no heart
Bernardo was past his prime as were Grecco and especially Aerts


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

David Ruby said:


> Hey David, you're not the only one. Leonard conceded Haglar won, and while Leonard was technically sound in how he fought that fight I _hated_ it. I like Haglar's style much better.
> 
> *I also think the Hagler vs. Hearns fight was amazing. More decisive, and they both came out and gave it their all.*
> 
> -Cheers


That was a fight!

I have all the fights between Leaonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran on one DVD. Hagler was always my favourite.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

James Downey said:


> Crocop and Hunt really are not all that good compared to a mauy thai champion from one of the 2 major stadiums in Thailand. Or a even a legit boxing champion. They are good compared to any MMA fighter. but they do not even begin to be as good as man whom has had 200 or more stand up striking fights. it's just impossible. They have to much experience. Now I am not saying that they are not good what they do. But MMA striking is ****ing sloppy shit....even by the so-called great strikers.
> 
> These are 2 greats....actually the guy in the blue lives in San fran now
> 
> ...


I love Muay Thai. I love fights with elbows. I prefer a fight to have elbows than not to have elbows. This is the one thing that annoyed me about K1 and Pride. Hell, in Pride you could soccor kick a downed opponant in the head, but you cant use elbows. WTF?
I have actually been to Thailand on four occasions and have sat in Lumpini Stadium and watched Muay Thai live.


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> I love Muay Thai. I love fights with elbows. I prefer a fight to have elbows than not to have elbows. This is the one thing that annoyed me about K1 and Pride. Hell, in Pride you could soccor kick a downed opponant in the head, but you cant use elbows. WTF?
> I have actually been to Thailand on four occasions and have sat in Lumpini Stadium and watched Muay Thai live.


Elbows create cuts and almost never TKOs or KOs. Just makes for a blood bath IMHO. Not that I dislike them I just don't think that prohibiting them will have a huge impact on the outcome of a fight.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Christopher Jones said:


> I love Muay Thai. I love fights with elbows. I prefer a fight to have elbows than not to have elbows. This is the one thing that annoyed me about K1 and Pride. Hell, in Pride you could soccor kick a downed opponant in the head, but you cant use elbows. WTF?
> *I have actually been to Thailand on four occasions and have sat in Lumpini Stadium and watched Muay Thai live*.


You don't want to sit [-( - you want to be standing higher up with all the mad locals laying bets left right and centre. 

The atmosphere is superb.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Ian Forbes said:


> You don't want to sit [-( - you want to be standing higher up with all the mad locals laying bets left right and centre.
> 
> The atmosphere is superb.


Its pretty cool. The first time we went I was expecting a bigger stadium, but that adds to the atmosphere. 
We stay at the Indra Regent Hotel so we would just walk down to the stadium. And then there was fights on Thai tv every other night basically. 
Some friends of mine go to Thailand every year and train at their camps.


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

I'd like to mention that prohibiting knees and soccer kicks really does change the possible out comes of a fight DRASTICALLY. Lack of elbows just means less blood and the Japanese want to see a show not a blood bath. PRIDE NEVER DIE


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Lance Dior said:


> I'd like to mention that prohibiting knees and soccer kicks really does change the possible out comes of a fight DRASTICALLY. Lack of elbows just means less blood and the Japanese want to see a show not a blood bath. PRIDE NEVER DIE


This is what elbows are capable of. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGYG5c3pUQ

Why take out another avenue of attack, and another weapon that you need to be wary of?


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> This is what elbows are capable of.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGYG5c3pUQ
> 
> Why take out another avenue of attack, and another weapon that you need to be wary of?


Public perception is the reason I don't like eblows. Too much blood is not a good things. Two guys rolling around in a pool of blood makes it look like well the blood sport some make it out to be. 

The example you showed in the vid is an obvious mismatch. How many fights are won in the UFC via elbow compared to how many fights were won in pride with knees and stomps to a downed opponent?

How many awkward moments have you seen in the UFC where a guy is down on his knees and his opponent can't do much except throw some looping punches. With knees these fights would have been over. You see to many technical mistakes on the ground being used on purpose because there is no danger to knees. Try turtling up in pride.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Lance Dior said:


> Public perception is the reason I don't like eblows. Too much blood is not a good things. Two guys rolling around in a pool of blood makes it look like well the blood sport some make it out to be.
> 
> The example you showed in the vid is an obvious mismatch. How many fights are won in the UFC via elbow compared to how many fights were won in pride with knees and stomps to a downed opponent?
> 
> How many awkward moments have you seen in the UFC where a guy is down on his knees and his opponent can't do much except throw some looping punches. With knees these fights would have been over. You see to many technical mistakes on the ground being used on purpose because there is no danger to knees. Try turtling up in pride.


Personally I really dont care much about the public. The majority of the public would ban the dog sports we participate in. The majority of the people voted Hitler into power in Germany. 
This is the reason we should have freedoms and rights, so 51% of the population cant control the other 49%.
And from what I would think most of the public would see soccer kicking a guy on his hands and knees in the head as being far worse than an elbow strike. 

I dont think head butts have anything to do with skill, nor does eye gouging etc. But knees, elbows, punches and kicks as well as submitions are cool.
Hey, bring back bare knuckles I say......:twisted:
Some bare knuckle Japanese no rules fights for those interested.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TFCPChannel


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## Lance Dior (Jul 31, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> Personally I really dont care much about the public. The majority of the public would ban the dog sports we participate in. The majority of the people voted Hitler into power in Germany.
> This is the reason we should have freedoms and rights, so 51% of the population cant control the other 49%.
> And from what I would think most of the public would see soccer kicking a guy on his hands and knees in the head as being far worse than an elbow strike.
> 
> ...


I agree about the soccer kicks, but at the same time I've seen so many fights that would have ended much differently if they were allowed. There are too many awkward unnatural moments when you prohibit them. How many times have you seen fighters have to pull a good kick or knee because their opponent quickly took a knee? Its BS

The bare knuckles are actually safer as far as head trauma goes than those four ounce gloves that not only add weight/force to the punch but protect the hands, but once again public perception. This is a touchy issue for MMA because of the decade long cable television ban

Something tells me you've been around long enough to know all this


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think they should be allowed to kill each other in MMA. That is what daddy wants.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Lance Dior said:


> I agree about the soccer kicks, but at the same time I've seen so many fights that would have ended much differently if they were allowed. There are too many awkward unnatural moments when you prohibit them. How many times have you seen fighters have to pull a good kick or knee because their opponent quickly took a knee? Its BS


Unless you allow us to go back to gladiator-style battles to the death or film no-rules street fights, you're just going to have to accept both the rules of the sports as well as people exploiting them. You could say that about any event and practically any fight. In real life Tyson might have beat Holyfield because he would have been able to keep fighting AFTER biting his ear off. Or any fight where a guy got saved by the bell; might as well give Carwin the win over Lesnar, because if there had been five minute rounds (or no time limit) and Brock hadn't gotten a chance to regroup, we kind of know how that would go. For that matter, eye gouging or groin shots would probably change the outcome of lots of fights.

If you think about it, placing rules on a fight kind of makes the whole thing unnatural. But it's a price we as a society are largely willing to live with. I'll accept the rules and realize it's a sport, and not something that I want to see people getting crippled or killed in.

[/rant]

I like Martial Arts in general. I will admit, I find a good Boxing match incredibly epic, and think it takes a lot of heart to go out there round after round with those breaks to think about what's coming next and the physical & mental fatigue. I also love, love, LOVE, straight up Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and the chess match that goes on with two really good practitioners. I have not seen much Muay Thai, but I like it and think it is a great Art, very tough from what I've seen, I'd love to see more of it. I can also root for skinny Asian guys whose names I can't easily pronounce. I also really enjoy MMA, and think at some point there will be more that have really good technical stand up boxing skills, technical footwork, grappling, wrestling, and submission skills because they've grown up learning all of the facets from a young age. For me, there is a lot of upside. I'm equal opportunist. They all have their place, and I think are all worthy of our respect.

-Cheers


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

James Downey said:


> Now I am not saying that they are not good what they do. But MMA striking is ****ing sloppy shit....even by the so-called great strikers.


 I remember a few years ago that Little Evil (real name escapes me now) fought a boxing match and got his ass handed to him. He looks great in a MMA ring but the specialty of boxing was too much for him.

BTW...how is a Muay Thai fighter going to fare in a boxing match?


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

David, you forgot the old standby. The kidney shot. The shot that changed many fights as the supposed winner was walking away. Never turn your back till the fat lady sings.


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> I remember a few years ago that Little Evil (real name escapes me now)


 Jens Pulver


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

I would love to see Tuesday Night Fights make a come back.

Those were all fights worth paying for.....for freeeeeee.


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> I remember a few years ago that Little Evil (real name escapes me now) fought a boxing match and got his ass handed to him.


 Do you remember who beat him?

I thought I remembered a loss, too, but all I can find with Google is 4 and 0.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

ESPN2 has fights most Friday nights. A lot of them are up and comers, but occasionally they will have a title elimination fight or one of the alphabet belt championships. Teddy Atlas provides the color while Joe Tessitore does the announceing. It's worth the look.
Mickey Ward was the master of the liver shot. It stopped many a fight. Being hit a good shot in the liver is absolutely devastating. Your legs just quit working. I had 25 fights as an amature. I wasn't any good. It was often said my best defense was the referee and the canvas. I still really like the sport. Recently, I've applied to become a judge. We'll see how that goes. 
DFrost


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

yeah, a 12 round boxing match that goes to a decision....much better than mma


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

interestingly, pretty much every fighter wants a tough dog, lots of pit bulls, but a number of guys have a lot of mma background, besides myself, I know of two other guys on this forum (one is a bjj bb)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> yeah, a 12 round boxing match that goes to a decision....much better than mma


Unless it's in New Jersey. ha ha. Geez there have been some strange decisions in that state.

DFrost


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Matt Grosch said:


> yeah, a 12 round boxing match that goes to a decision....much better than mma


Paquioa vs marquez comes to mind...both fights. Gatti vs ward... 

MMA can be very boring. Machida vs Rua one....Wow that was a barn burner. and after wasting 20 minutes of my life....The judges ****ed it up and gave it to machida. MMA used to be 2 guys dry humping each other for the duration. Now they stand em' back up so they both can stare each other down till 2 am. But that shit happens in boxing also. Like I said in Thailand...they will kick your ass out of the ring and wont get paid if the action sops.

Both MMA and Boxing can be boring or they can be wildly entertaining. I like that MMA a guy can have 8 loses on his record and still compete for a title. I like in boxing, that to many loses means your out of contention. makes men fight a bit harder.

My big gripe about MMA is the additudes of 90% of the fighters in interviews are so outlandishly over the top macho, they look like tool bags. Now there are classy fighters like GSP. But one thing that gets me in MMA. if your fighting, you get interviewed even if its your first fight and your on the prelim undercard. And most of them say the same thing. and the interview always end with joe blow asshole saying he's gonna knock the other guy out. And it never happens like that. 

When they asked pacquio what was gonna happen in the de la hoya fight....Pac man said, " I do not know, that's why we fight....(giggles)" no bullshit bravado.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Micky Ward and Emanuel Augusta/Burton. Now THOSE were some barn burners! Non stop from beginning to end.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

No attitude/egos/trash talking in boxing? That's what helped put Ali on the map. He had Sonny Liston scared $#!+less before they even got in the ring.
I also recall an interview with Durant a couple of days after a fight. 
Durant had put this guy (can't remember who now) in the hospital.
The interviewer asked Durant if he felt bad about putting the guy in the hospital.
Durant's answer.;
"Yes, I feel very bad about putting him in the hospital. I was trying to kill him". 
Jerry Quarry ( the Irish bleeder :-# ) was announcing one of Durants fights and Duran came to the corner Quarry was sitting. He looked over the ring side at Quarry and later Quarry's comment was;
I've got 100 lbs on that guy but I wouldn't want to meet him in an ally. 
Doubful if Durant was a big fan of the marcus of Queensbury rules outside the ring. He did what it took to win. 
Whe he took the title from the Scot (name ](*,)) the pic in the paper the next day showed Durant planting a fist in the Scot's nads while pinning him in the corner.

To say that 5, 5min rounds of MMA doesn't compair to 10-12 rounds of boxing tells that person has never fought in a ring using his legs OR wrestled.
The leg work takes a tremendous amount of energy and I believe legit wrestling is more demanding on the endurance then most any one on one sport.
.....and I'd rather take a shot in the nads then a solid liver shot. 
The Mexican fighters were known to be the best with a left hook to the liver.

Kenny Buchanin was the Scot's name.....I think.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I agree Bob, considering Mohamad Ali was know as the "Louisville Lip" before being called the self proclaimed "Greatest of All Time" (which I think he was).

UFC 18 on Aug.28th has James Toney vs. Randy Couture for all you boxing fans that think MMA fighters can't hack it with the big boys. Should be an interesting fight.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Adam Rawlings said:


> UFC 18 on Aug.28th has James Toney vs. Randy Couture for all you boxing fans that think MMA fighters can't hack it with the big boys. Should be an interesting fight.


Maybe if it happened fifteen years ago. Both are past their prime, for one. Couture should have a lot more weapons for another. If you're talking about somebody great like Pacquiao transitioning to MMA after several months of training so he had at least functional ground/grappling skills & defense and working his way into MMA, that would be one thing. To me, that would be compelling to see how the training, endurance, body-type (boxers generally being leaner), and solid fundamentals of the striking & footwork might play in MMA.

Toney vs. Couture is still kind of interesting, and Toney is apparently training BJJ so he doesn't just get taken down and destroyed in a wrestling match so maybe it'll be a decent fight. Heck, maybe it will be great. Still, either way, this is not pitting the best from both sports at the top of their game. I'm not quite sure that will happen anytime soon.

-Cheers


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Toney vs Couture is apples and oranges.
Two fighters from different forms/types/etc can't fight the same style and expect the one NOT in his own element to win, all things being equal. 
Ali tried it. Angelo Dundee set the rules so that it became a joke. He didn't want Ali hurt and even though he won, Ali wound up in the hospital with blood clots in his leg from kicks. The rules simply favored Ali and took the Karate champ out of his game.
Chuck Wepner (bum of the month boxer during Ali's era) fought a wrestler and wound up getting tossed into the fourth row seats when the wrestler got inside Wepner's punches.
All things being equal the boxer will win with boxing rules and the MMA or legit wrestler will win with their rules. 20 yrs ago MM was nothing more then a Tough Guy competition. The Gracies showed it could be ruled by a good grappler. Boxers and wrestlers have all had their day in MMA but it's the well rounder fighters now that rule. GSP and Anderson Sylva are two examples of fighters that have all round skills. 
With boxers it was originally bare fisted, who can last the longest and take the best punches. Gene tunney was one of the first "dancers". Ali, Joe Lewis, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ray Lenard were a few that ruled with movement. 
Rocky Marciano ruled with nothing more then brute power that couldn't handle todays top fighters. 
He was 178-190 as a heavy weight and got tore up damn near every fight (he could take a punch) till the other guy just got tired of punching. He was great at beating on the other guys arms till they couldn't swing and he did have a tremendous punch......just not much on boxing skills!
As I said in my first post. It's all about styles. Doesn't matter if it's boxing, MMA,whatever!


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

"Got any excuse tonight ROY? Any Excuses tonight"



IM GONNA END THIS MADNESS RIGHT NOW! KIMBO SLICE!!!! NUFF SAID! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Tyree Johnson said:


> "Got any excuse tonight ROY? Any Excuses tonight"
> 
> 
> 
> IM GONNA END THIS MADNESS RIGHT NOW! KIMBO SLICE!!!! NUFF SAID! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


What side does that prove is right, exactly? Other than the "Dana White Was Wrong" side. 

They did promote the crap out of him though, then you saw him go against anybody who knew any sort of takedown and it was like watching a turtle on its back. It does sorta kill the notion that all you need to be successful is to be a tough guy who can win backyard street fights.

-Cheers


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Tyree Johnson said:


> "Got any excuse tonight ROY? Any Excuses tonight"
> 
> 
> 
> IM GONNA END THIS MADNESS RIGHT NOW! KIMBO SLICE!!!! NUFF SAID! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA



Very good underground street fighter that sucks at MMA in spite of a couple of wins.
Kimbo has admitted his level of skills is very limited in MMA but he's shown the desire to learn.
He was at the top of HIS game but will never be at that level in MMA....OR boxing!  :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: He was 178-190 as a heavy weight

Those are unGodly numbers. How many since him could go that often ?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: He was 178-190 as a heavy weight
> 
> Those are unGodly numbers. How many since him could go that often ?



Sorry, my bad! That was his fighting weight from his first fights to retirement.
He had a record of 40 something wins and no losses but that many fights were common in that era.
He had six title fights and retired. 
I recall Larry Holms (sp) commenting after NOT beating RM's record that RM wasn't qualified to carry his jock strap.
I agree! To small and lacking in boxing skills for the ali/Holms era of fighters. Most of those guys were 215 + in weight and still had speed and boxing skills.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just looked it up.
Actually 7 title fights.
took the title from Jersey Joe Walcott
Defended against Jersey Joe
Defended against Roland Lastarza
Defended against Ezzard Charles who was beat for the title by Jersey Joe
2nd defense against Ezzard Charles
Defended against Don Cockell
Defended against Archie Moore


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I think his record was 52 - 0. I never watched him person, but I've seen films of his fights. Larry Holms was probably, (in my opinion) one of the better, least appreciated HW champs. He fought them all. He had one of the most powerful, jack hammer jabs around.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Hated Ali..He ran too much for my liking; big mouth. Hated Holmes, especially after the jock strap comment. Loved Hagler. He got robbed in the Sugar Ray fight back in the late 80's.

Now..Butterbean...that's a whole new story.:mrgreen:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

After the sugar ray/hagler fight, I started to believe that fights were fixed.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

I remember a poll taken (years ago) among the pro boxers at the time. The poll asked the pros who they thought the hardest hiiting boxer was. The winner was Ernie Shavers (an ohio boy). Just some boxing trivia for y'all.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> After the sugar ray/hagler fight, I started to believe that fights were fixed.



I took you that long?=D>

Reminds me of my wife's uncle in Illinois who thinks wrestling is real. I watched a boxing match with him one night and with a straight face he told me boxing was fake cause they get hurt/knocked out to easily.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2010)

> Larry Holms was probably, (in my opinion) one of the better, least appreciated HW champs. He fought them all.


He certainly did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNczaSFJjG0

But I'm always going to think Mike Tyson is kind of his own thing. He's kind of like the Barry Sanders of boxing. A genetic, steam-rolling freak of nature.

He put the heavy weight division through a meat grinder when most kids aren't half done with college.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FgS3kCv79I


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Steven Lepic said:


> But I'm always going to think Mike Tyson is kind of his own thing. He's kind of like the Barry Sanders of boxing. A genetic, steam-rolling freak of nature.
> 
> He put the heavy weight division through a meat grinder before he was 22.


But rumor has it Tyson was scared of Foreman, and Foreman probably would have made a terrible match up for Tyson. In other words, I think Tyson would have gotten knocked out. Then, Foreman's said that Ali took his best shot and still kept coming. Ali might have "ran" too much for some, but he was still among the absolute greatest ever and still a tough and talented fighter. I prefer Foreman and Hagler's style (going back to Howard K's post), but still, you have to sort of look at the bigger picture.

Back to Tyson . . . Tyson was still great, and those fights tend to be great (albeit brief) exercises in total domination. Still, it does put perspective on where to rank him when you consider possible reasons why the Tyson vs. Foreman fight never happened, plus how other fighters might have presented similar problems. Not to mention how much Iron Mike seemed to lose after going to prison that he never got back (for various reasons).

-Cheers


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> I took you that long?=D>
> 
> Reminds me of my wife's uncle in Illinois who thinks wrestling is real. .


What do you mean? Are you implying..........

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

If you recall the first Douglas/Tyson fight, it was the jab that made the difference for Douglas. Well that and Tyson had been reading too many of his press clipping and had fired one of the best trainers in boxing. Foreman, who had an excellant jab, and could take a punch, would have beaten Tyson. He (Tyson) had every reason to be afraid of him. At his best, Forman was probably the only fighter that really stood a chance against Tyson. I agree, Hagler got robbed. 

DFrost


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

David Frost said:


> What do you mean? Are you implying..........
> 
> DFrost


To paraphrase Hank Venture . . . If wrestling is real, I mean, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy could even be real, right? It's like all bets are off!

My grandmother still believes WWE wrestling is real, last I heard. I had a hard time believing it was fake because, well, if my grandma thought it was real, surely a learned adult would know better, right?  It made for some funny arguments with her after the fact, me this little kid telling his grandma how it was make believe and arguably better choreographed than Cats or The Nutcracker. I can't say _that_ went over too well. But it was fun.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Well that and Tyson had been reading too many of his press clipping *and had fired one of the best trainers in boxing.*


That was kind of my thought. Tyson just didn't seem as well-trained coming into that fight. He still almost won though, a few of those shots seemed to really hurt Douglas and Tyson seemed to _almost_ find his stride a few times where he could have just really gotten in there and ended it.



> Foreman, who had an excellant jab, and could take a punch, would have beaten Tyson. He (Tyson) had every reason to be afraid of him. *At his best, Forman was probably the only fighter that really stood a chance against Tyson.*


Ever, or during that time? I'd agree (from what I know of the fighters fighting at that time) with the latter. But throughout history, I think there were others who would have beat him. And yeah, I think Foreman would have beaten Tyson. I think given a rematch, with tighter ropes, Foreman would have beaten Ali for that matter.



> I agree, Hagler got robbed.


You and everybody else. Including Leonard, at least up until he found out he had won. I mean, he conceded to Hagler, then he did a pretty thorough about face once the judges gave him the decision. Everybody seemed to know Hagler won that fight, including Leonard! Nothing against Leonard, but still, that stuff bothers me.

-Cheers


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I like a good fight with good boxers. Holmes was a darned good boxer but what killed him is the interviews after the fights. All he could do is cry about not getting recognition. The other thing that killed him is that through most of his fights, there was no one near as good as he was to put on a show. One of the most miserable fights I ever saw was Holmes and Tex Cobb. Fight should have been stopped in the 1'st as many other Holmes fights. He was a darned good boxer.

As far as Ali, I hated him and the mouth he had. I would pay to go to the big screen at the theater to see him get beat. It was $20 bucks which was a lot of money back then. After the second fight, I had to conmceed. I liked him because he was good. Learned a few things from him also. One was that that mouth made him big bucks. People paid to see him win, people payed to see him get beat. But, everyone paid whether they liked him or not.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I remember watching Ali on Johnny Carson. Ali said he patterned his the way he talked, his bravado and bragging ways from a "rassler" of the day; Georgous George. Everybody hated him and paid to see him get beat. ha ha. It worked for a long time. I saw Ali at the '86 Pan American Games. My son got his autograph and I got to say; "hey Champ, I sure enjoyed watching you. I despised the man when he beat Sonny Liston. I listened to that fight in a nuke dump in a far away place in Europe over A-Farts. ha ha. On my little 9 transistor radio, by they way.

DFrost


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2010)

David Ruby said:


> But rumor has it Tyson was scared of Foreman, and Foreman probably would have made a terrible match up for Tyson. In other words, I think Tyson would have gotten knocked out.
> 
> Back to Tyson . . . Tyson was still great, and those fights tend to be great (albeit brief) exercises in total domination. Still, it does put perspective on where to rank him when you consider possible reasons why the Tyson vs. Foreman fight never happened, plus how other fighters might have presented similar problems. Not to mention how much Iron Mike seemed to lose after going to prison that he never got back (for various reasons).
> 
> -Cheers


Thing with a young Foreman is he mangled people through their own defense. It was ridiculous looking at his fights other than Ali. The other guy would have his guard up and he'd be knocking people down/out through their own gloves. Brutal.

Tyson, with good trainers, had really good movement at the head and waist and had better accuracy than Foreman. Foreman would have a hard time connecting.

But then Tyson's his brain fell out during prison...possibly before.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Tyson's asshole fell out in prison.

I was sure boxing was real. We got three channels, so we didn't see as much sports as we would have liked. I also was stupid enough to join the Marines.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

This Boxer here is tuff, her name is Abbie. She's my daughter's dog. Sorry I couldn't resist, she is a boxer though. LOL


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Skip Morgart said:


> I remember a poll taken (years ago) among the pro boxers at the time. The poll asked the pros who they thought the hardest hiiting boxer was. The winner was Ernie Shavers (an ohio boy). Just some boxing trivia for y'all.


Ernie Shavers aka The Acorn".
Another boxer that everyone else avoided. He was the heavyweight version of Marvelous Marvin.
Tyson had all the potential in the world but as David said he got rid of the best trainer on the planet. That was after Cus Domado ( I suck at spelling  ) died.
He was a pure head case when he got beat by Douglas.


Holms vs Tex Cobb :-o Most one sided fight in history. Holm's fists had to be tired after that one. :lol:
That was the fight that made Howard Cosell retire as a boxing announcer. Even Holms was turning to the ref with a WTF look on his face. Practically begged the ref to stop the carnage.

Georgous George used to throw gold plated bobbie pins in the crowd. The original in wrestling showmanship.
My how wrestling has........???grown???

David, you were to little when Rocky M retired.:razz: Hell, I was only about 10-11 yrs old but the Friday night Gellette Calvelcade of Fights were huge in my family....AND I've spent a lot of time looking at old fights since these new fangled typewriters came out. :lol:


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

keep in mind, boxers are not good fighters, even 100 years ago when they would put a wrestler against a boxer, the wrestler would win 9 out of 10 times


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