# Puppy preliminary hips check



## Jeff Kuchel (Sep 29, 2012)

I am thinking of taking my 5.5 month old puppy to have her hips X-rayed for a preliminary hip certification. Is this a good idea to do this at this age? I am wanting a idea of her health because I'm going to compete with her.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Jeff Kuchel said:


> I am thinking of taking my 5.5 month old puppy to have her hips X-rayed for a preliminary hip certification. Is this a good idea to do this at this age? I am wanting a idea of her health because I'm going to compete with her.


I've done several at that age with no problems. The last few were done without anesthesia. Otherwise, anesthesia is a risk at any age. Make sure you use a vet accustomed to doing OFA x-rays.

T


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

certainly can do it, I used to about that age, when I was into breeds with pretty high % of dysplastic dogs.

if money is not an issue, I would do it.. then I would do it again at 12 - 14 months, and then again at 2 if you want to get the certification, if not I would wait until the dog was 4-5.

they can still change quickly, from 5-6 months to even 12-14 months.


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## Elaine Matthys (May 18, 2008)

I'm a competition junky and wouldn't do pre-lims, especially not this early, unless I had some doubts about my dog's hips. They change so much when they are young, that I don't see the point unless I think there's something wrong with them. I don't think irradiating my dog and possibly using anesthesia is worth it otherwise.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Elaine Matthys said:


> I'm a competition junky and wouldn't do pre-lims, especially not this early, unless I had some doubts about my dog's hips. They change so much when they are young, that I don't see the point unless I think there's something wrong with them. I don't think irradiating my dog and possibly using anesthesia is worth it otherwise.


I tend to agree...

when would you do them?


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

From the OFA website

A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months). 
*Corley, EA, et al. _Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia_ _Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection_. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

Most European's do it a year & for me that's a good time to check before any strenuous training, plus you know what you have. I personally believe its early unless as otherwise stated you have a suspect pup. Another point being how sure at five months he is a true prospect when he hasn't even finished teething? I mean if you have the extra bucks, send them to me =P~


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Steve Estrada said:


> Most European's do it a year & for me that's a good time to check before any strenuous training, plus you know what you have. I personally believe its early unless as otherwise stated you have a suspect pup. Another point being how sure at five months he is a true prospect when he hasn't even finished teething? I mean if you have the extra bucks, send them to me =P~


i agree with this.

but if money and irradiation is not an issue, if a pup shows up bad at that age...well then you fill in the blanks..he aint gonna get better.. and you save yourse;f 6 months and x amount of $


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## Elaine Matthys (May 18, 2008)

That does bring up a point that didn't occur to me: returning a dog with poor hips. How many of us would really do it? I couldn't. That said, if you have the money, don't worry about unnecessary irradiation, and would return a pup, then really early like this might be the thing to do.

I don't have a problem with pre-lims at a year, but still don't really see the point unless I would be seeing something that makes me worry about them. I want the official OFA results at two and don't have the money to toss out the window for just a pre-lim to make myself feel better. 

My personal opinion is that you can tell pretty early on if the hips are bad and that's when I would check them because you are going to want to decide what to do about it. Most of them are pretty easy to tel by watching their gait, jumping ability, and how well they can sit and lie down - not talking about puppy sits, but watching for discomfortl.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Elaine Matthys said:


> That does bring up a point that didn't occur to me: returning a dog with poor hips. How many of us would really do it? I couldn't. That said, if you have the money, don't worry about unnecessary irradiation, and would return a pup, then really early like this might be the thing to do.
> 
> I don't have a problem with pre-lims at a year, but still don't really see the point unless I would be seeing something that makes me worry about them. I want the official OFA results at two and don't have the money to toss out the window for just a pre-lim to make myself feel better.
> 
> My personal opinion is that you can tell pretty early on if the hips are bad and that's when I would check them because you are going to want to decide what to do about it. Most of them are pretty easy to tel by watching their gait, jumping ability, and how well they can sit and lie down - not talking about puppy sits, but watching for discomfortl.


this is absolutely misleading in my opinion.

I have had 2 yr old dogs xrayed that could run like the wind, jump 6 foot fences back and forth 20 or so times for a ball, lay with frog legs, with NO physical symptoms...and when I xrayed at 25 months, the vet actually told me that he was surprised the dog could even walk....albeit these dogs were not herders..

so what if your dog comes up bad at 2? and you realize that 2 yrs are wasted on a disfunctional dog? 

I would be looking to exercise that guarantee immediately if the dog is faulty, 1000% for sure...

that being said, I did not xray this current dog until almost 2 yrs of age.


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## Elaine Matthys (May 18, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> this is absolutely misleading in my opinion.
> 
> I have had 2 yr old dogs xrayed that could run like the wind, jump 6 foot fences back and forth 20 or so times for a ball, lay with frog legs, with NO physical symptoms...and when I xrayed at 25 months, the vet actually told me that he was surprised the dog could even walk....albeit these dogs were not herders..
> 
> ...


If your dog was truly asymptomatic, how can training him for those two years be a waste? It sounds like he was functional so you could still train and compete with him. I suspect there are dogs that are kept well muscled and have high pain tolerance, that may not show any problems until much older. Keeping a dog with bad hips well exercised is good pain management anyway, so I don't see why this dog would be a waste unless you were looking for a breeding prospect.

I do see people running dogs with bad hips in agility and IPO from time to time. These dogs are willing but their back ends aren't very able and they have a very hard time. The owners, when I've asked them, don't see anything wrong with their dogs and brag about how fast and how well they jump. Not wanting to start a fight, I shake my head and walk away. Is it denial on their part or is it that they truly can't see it? I don't know but it breaks my heart to see these dogs trying to do something that they clearly can't do.

So my question is: was your dog showing you signs that you didn't see, like these people, or was he truly not showing any signs? I don't know. I even had a foster come through that I was horrified at how badly she was moving and had her immediately x-rayed which came up as severely bad hips and she had to have both removed. This dog had come from a foster home of a veterinarian before me and he saw nothing wrong with the dog. My guess is that not a lot people are good at diagnosing lameness and the rest just don't look. Not saying this is the case with you, but it seems to be the case in general.


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

I've had a similar experience as Joby albeit with a Rottie. I would have bet the farm she had good hips fortunately I didn't. They were so bad the vet suggested putting her down. I know some won't understand that but I feel the same about myself. I tell my family if I get to that point, take me to the vets. Some reason they don't appreciate that. #-o


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Depending on the breed, history in lineage, and what you see in front of you I wouldn't do prelims at that age unless there was a reason to or the money wasn't an issue. I would do them at about 1yr. ...unless you're worried about investing training time and money and plan to wash the dog at the slightest sign of issues in which case a couple hundred bucks wouldn't be too bad to spend to have some assurance the dog is on the right track hip/elbow wise.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

I also have a dog that Ive mentioned here before that has hip dysplasia, yet I used to hear "he moves so beautifully" all the time. Would have been an amazing dog to compete with. Such a waste. I typically prelim at a year, and if I get another pup with dysplasia, its going back. Not gonna do that again.


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