# Started Reggie tracking yesterday



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Started Reggie tracking yesterday, here is how we got on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmIklkE2eaE


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## Danielle Hunt (Jan 7, 2016)

Was that his first time tracking?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jut a suggestion if I may.

Stomp in all of a square on the grass with the sides about the length of the dog and sprinkle food in there but DON'T let any fall outside that box.

That will teach the dog that food in ONLY in the disturbed area. 

Pull him off before he finds all the food.

That keeps him from finding non rewarding areas of the disturbed soil.

Work only those squares until the dog is consistently moving back into the stomped area before you start laying tracks.

It wont take long.

I use to make 3-4 of these boxes about 20ft apart and never in line with the wind direction.

That could pull the dog off the square it's in if it scents the up wind square. 

Some of the old timers just drug a cloth bag of meat behind them when making the track.

Some still do and It obviously worked.

I like the footsteps to be the only be in the disturbed are of the ground.

Another tip us old, not so bendable folks do is to use a piec of PVC pipe to drop the food through.

Keeps us from having to bend so much to place that treat in the foot step. :grin:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Cool, thanks guys.

Danielle yes that was his first time ever tracking all though i think he is not "tracking" as yet.

Bob, thanks for the advices, I'll try that with the other pup, i especially like the PVC idea 

I am experimenting with a new (to me) type of tracking which is a method with similar goals to my usual method but is done in a different way. I have been told the Norwegian police use it and my buddy uses it to train anti poaching dogs and it works really well for him. It looks very random but it is teaching the dog from the start how to find the track if it loses it. Trailing and fringe tracking are perfectly alowable. The aim is not to get a train track type tracking as seen in IPO but more of a "real world" for want of a better expression type of tracking that makes the dog work out solutions to problems. The tracks are very scantily seeded with food and the dog must discover the track itself. IMO the food is distracting him from what he should be doing so by the third track today I had binned it excepting a jackpot food dump at the end of the track. 

Here is yesterdays results which is his second day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-oxDx-wMDQ


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Hi Matt, if you are looking for more of a real world trailing vs FST tracking have you tried runaways or fire tracks? This engages the prey drive and while the first couple may be visual oriented over scent, the dog is still inhaling and thus learning scent is important and distinguishable.. You can advance to a disappearing runaway (short straight to a quick hide or turn) with a 30second hold (made longer with progress) so the dog starts naturally using his nose.. 

You may know all this already  Just curious if you have tried it or not? Dogs seem to progress faster as they aren't limited but encouraged to 'think' through the problems that arise, thus they don't get 'hung up' as often and forward movement is inherent and easy.. Good looking dog!


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Cool, i have not herd of this, could you explain it a bit more for me please?


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Runaways or fire tracks are easy.. You need a helper though because the reward will be finding the person and getting praise, food reward or tug/ball from the person hiding (unless you teach an alert command and want only the handler to reward). The 'subject', 'decoy', 'victim', whatever you want to call him, but the one who runs away acts like a loveable fool calling the dog by name in high voices, clapping hands, maybe showing the reward for the dog and drops scent article in front of dog if you are going to use one (best if doing real world training for scent discrimination), runs away doing this for say 50yds (less if a baby puppy) then hides behind a tree or whatever.. The dog is released with the search command of your choice and when the dog races (and they will run at first) to the hidden person, lavish praise and reward is given. 

At first it will seem like it is all visual, and it partly is, but the dog is getting scent from the scent article and finding that person.. Do this 3x in a row then done for awhile (give the dog a chance to process what has happened and learn). As the dog consistently 'finds' his hider, you can add length, a turn, delay in releasing the dog (dogs don't hold the visual way of how someone left in their minds for long, they default to their nose which we want), and ultimately aging of the trail etc (and never all at once).. 

When your dog no longer needs the runaways exuberance (you can test this by having your hider walk away casually and lay a trail with a couple of easy turns and hide. Harness your dog and scent him and give the command to search. If your dog goes straight to work and finds your subject you know you won't need the visual aspect of the person being seen walking away.. Your dog is using his nose  ) 

Now you can really have fun and have your hider lay the trails you want.. Build on it. Don't add distance and aging or too many turns, or say suddenly jump to urban and aging at the same time. Do one thing harder at a time. Confidence is key. 

If the dog misses a turn or doesn't initially go straight to your subject but is working, allow your dog to cast himself and relocate the trail rather than show him where he missed it.. In real life, you won't know where that trail is and can't show him, so he needs to learn how to reaquire the odor on his own.. Patience is crucial, especially if we think it is taking too long.. It isn't.. It takes what it takes.. The dog has to eliminate alot of odors we aren't even aware are there, air currents are often different lower to the ground then above and we don't know where the scent actually is (opposed to FST where crushed vegetation is what the dog is following). 

Depending on dog, you can be working on actual trails with distance in a few weeks or less. Thus style of teaching allows the dog movement and freedom to learn.. Engages their natural prey/play drive and is rewarded for the find with scent discrimination. The dog moves naturally and thus moves fast in the training.. I wouldn't initially restrict the speed the dog wants to work at.. As the dog learns his job, you can start rating the speed to your comfort.. 

FST tracking will never give you real world results as it cannot be duplicated on asphalt, concrete etc and is to slow. It can clean up dogs that fringe on scent too much,but it is unnatural for the dog who would air scent if that is where the strongest source of scent came from. A deep nose is not necessary, although you will often see it.. Hope this helps and isn't too confusing, lol.. Typing off my phone so probably run on sentences, poor punctuation and typos.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Not bad for his second time out, Matt.\\/

When I trained civilian dogs in tracking I used the tracking square method. I'd have students stomp a 3X3 foot square in the grass (I usually used a sidewalk as one side of the square so it was easier to keep track of where we'd been, plus it was easier to keep it square) and I'd have them place bait in each corner, each side, and in the middle. I'd have them approach from down wind and let the dog figure it out and consume the bait. I'd have them do about 10 squares this size.

Next, I'd have them stomp a 2X4 foot square and do 10 drills. Then a 1X6 foot square 10 times. You see a progression in the last squares as the dog is now following the odor in a direction. From there, bait in each foot step for about 10 yards. Stretch it out further and do a few more. Then bait each foot step randomly. In the end the bait is at the end of the track.

My personal GSD was a natural tracker and NEVER had food on his tracks. His very first track was 100 yards long with only a tease with a toy at the start. His father was one of my retired PSDs. He was more of a trailing type dog but could track foot step if he needed to. I'd bring him in near the end of the school and show the students the difference between a FST dog and a trailing dog. In every class almost every student wanted to do trailing! (less work.  ) One student who was a real pain and always questioning everything I taught had a flat coat retriever. A week after the class was done she titled the dog in tracking at a level just shy of a Sch I. She was a believer after that.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

The other thing you can do is stomp down the start, then instead of stepping, scuff your feet making choo-choo tracks in the grass. Occasionally, drop a piece of foot in either track. You can make this track serpentine or with a hard turn bend but will teach the 'follow crushed vegetation smell' type of tracking. after a time or two you can phase out to scuffed steps and keep working until you are down to normal stepping laid tracks.

Like Bob mentioned you can do a scuffed box or circle with an X or + in the middle with food pieces only in the scuffed areas to teach the idea that crushed vegetation is going to get him a prize.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks guys awesome info 

Here is how we got on today, which wasn't so good due to someone cutting the grass (they were still cutting it when we were there) some dog poop just off track and my camera battery failed 

Wind was medium/strong from behind and heading to the left as you face down the track, day three track 1 which is 7 tracks in total so far (i'm doing a 21 day tracking challenge on fb):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JrlbzVIhlE


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## alexandra ofor (May 8, 2015)

Nice video and lovely dog you have there.
He had his nose down working the scent of the food/treat and was concentrating .That rooster didn't distract him one bit:grin:. . My dog was thought different;
A small scent box was made on the grass, by stamping on the grass( no food) His favourite toy (ball on a string)would then be dragged along a short track made as you walked on a straight line which is then hidden in the grass. Dog is then brought to the scent box as he investigates the crushed vegetation and follows the tracks , he is calmly praised and when he locates the toy in the grass, Handler makes a big fuss and reward the dogs find by having a short play session with the dog. The toy is then put away for the next track.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks  sounds like a cool plan.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ditto with Howard on your second track.

The runaways as per Misty is how we tought real world scent work in SAR.

I started my GSD when he was 12 wks old and by 14 weeks he was finding me in the woods with a 10 min start on my part.

Tease the hell out of the pup and then turn and run/

In the begining with a very young pup it was just run 20 or so paces and lay down with the tug or whatever reward and tease the pup for a bark when hey got to whoever is laying down.

Yes the dog sees you but that quickly turns into running just inside a woody area. 

You'll see the dogs start using their nose the second it gets to where it lost sight of the "victim".

From there it's just building on time and distance. Separately of course. 

I was very fortunate with that first dog because he naturally used his nose to find anything.

As a small pup he was finding the exact stick I would throw into a pile of sticks.

GSD #2 has little to no clue. He looses interest to easily. lack of hunt drive is very apparent with him.


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## alexandra ofor (May 8, 2015)

My trainer said " Any dog with a brain between its two ears and a good nose should be able to track" It's natural to them. It's getting them to follow the exact sent you want them to track, There lies the challenge.

Dogs from working lines are more willing to please and want to work(commit). Mine is from the show line but is getting a hang of it with a lot of training of course.


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## alexandra ofor (May 8, 2015)

Its getting them to track the exact scent.... pls excuse my spelling errors.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

I might add for clarification... A dog will naturally TRAIL, but not track... Trailing allows for air scent of conditions call for it.. Tracking requires obedience, patience, unbelievable focus and thus drive to get to end of track.. Trailing is natural, tracking is not... Tracking is slow, methodical while trailing is usually much faster and adaptable to conditions.. 

But I do fully agree that using their noses is ingrained in their DNA  and if we can harness that keep the drive up enough to complete the task, few things are safe even hidden


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Its getting them to track the exact scent.... pls excuse my spelling errors.

And not jump to a more interesting scent without our knowing, lol! Typos are my specialty haha


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Nice vid and Reggie is coming along great.

One of the things I dislike when using food, is having the dog working well, moving their nose from footstep to footstep and then catching a whiff of the food left behind and having them flip around and backtrack to nose all over the immediate area to find that piece of food. I'm thinking there should be a better way. Will have to ponder on this.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

There are drawbacks to every method. Once the task is learned and the food is omitted then the problem goes away. As long as you are careful in the beginning it shouldn't be a problem, just more frustrating than anything. 

We did tracking last night. I pushed my boy harder. 2 decoys crossing each others track twice then in single file until primary target peeled off. First crossover was a little dicey but he worked it out and found the right decoy in the end. Later that evening I had a live track from an auto burglary. My boy tracked hard and soft surface to find the stashed stolen property, then south down a sidewalk to the hood. Suspect was out of the perimeter so track was called. I was stoked even though we didn't get the bad guy. He's hot shit now and will only get better. Too bad it took 3 years but I can enjoy another 3 years before he retired, then start all over with a new dog. By the time I retire the new dog will be spun up and his newbie handler will reap the benefits of my hard work. It just aint right.:-s


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I hate training tracking with food for that exact reason.

Day four and I made some **** ups.
Tracked to much on the same spot. I thought Reggie was off looking for food that was left behind but turned out he was having a hard time of discerning the new track from old tracks. Had a bit of a tantrum and because he is as soft as cookie dough he took it a bit badly. By the time I had worked out what was wrong and moved to a new area he had dipped into shut down mode. Got out of bed this morning on the wrong side, had no business trying to train a pup tracking 
Made the classic mistake of thinking I knew what was going on.



> Tracking requires obedience, patience, unbelievable focus and thus drive to get to end of track..


^^ Describes Reggie perfectly ^^

Anyway run VT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6qUODfPwws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nz8eWxJnTI


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Matt Vandart said:


> Had a bit of a tantrum and because he is as soft as cookie dough he took it a bit badly. By the time I had worked out what was wrong and moved to a new area he had dipped into shut down mode.


 Bad Boy, Matt. Shame on you. If you are mad at the dog or yourself, the best thing you can do is STOP and put the dog up until you can get yourself under control. But you know this..... 

Because you have a soft dog, you really need to get a handle on yourself. I've had 2 soft dogs and I really learned to get myself under control and just roll with it and not take myself so seriously. Had to learn to lightened up a lot and not put them under a lot of pressure. I have a feeling your Reggie is the same way. I would take a day or three off and do something fun and engaging with him.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Thankfully, my dogs are used to me raging at myself, lol! Because I have no one to bounce what happened back off of, I don't know if I'm doing something right or wrong (yes, dog(s) are certified and getting set for recertify and level up, but tests aren't real life and I hate trying to correct a problem you didn't know you were putting into your dog, lol) so I tend to take myself and the scenario too seriously.. I'm definitely getting better at that but need to work on it.. My boy is soft but he is used to his momma chattering away (fuming because the blinking line caught for the 50th time in 5 minutes in dense brush, lol) and so a 'good boy, finish your thought' or 'get to work' is all it takes for him to start working again.. Same with my girl who is much harder, but handler in tune... 

Matt, are you familiar with your boys body language when he is on human scent? My girl has a certain tail set and my boy too, although he has a curly tail so I have to read his ears and headset more as well.. I've found reading my dogs body language is a HUGE benefit in knowing if they are 'on' or just goofing off and in hunt mode (which can look similar)


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Sarah Platts said:


> Bad Boy, Matt. Shame on you. If you are mad at the dog or yourself, the best thing you can do is STOP and put the dog up until you can get yourself under control. But you know this.....
> 
> Because you have a soft dog, you really need to get a handle on yourself. I've had 2 soft dogs and I really learned to get myself under control and just roll with it and not take myself so seriously. Had to learn to lightened up a lot and not put them under a lot of pressure. I have a feeling your Reggie is the same way. I would take a day or three off and do something fun and engaging with him.


I concur, should have just stayed in bed instead. Was in a stinker of a mood this morning.

Misty, I don't know Reggies tells yet as we have done very little so far, I think they will probably be very subtle unlike Sali whose tail speed is an easy indicator of when she has hit scent.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

alexandra ofor said:


> My trainer said " Any dog with a brain between its two ears and a good nose should be able to track" It's natural to them. It's getting them to follow the exact sent you want them to track, There lies the challenge.
> 
> Dogs from working lines are more willing to please and want to work(commit). Mine is from the show line but is getting a hang of it with a lot of training of course.



Agree about any dog can track.

What sets the good ones apart is the drive to continue the search after time or the loss of the track.

Until you get the the FH level of track in sport it's more about the obedience to track.

Street K9s may not need the precision the sport dogs require but there should be no quit in their desire to continue until the the perp, victim is caught, the track is completely lost or the handler calls the dog off for whatever reason.


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## alexandra ofor (May 8, 2015)

Misty said "I might add for clarification... A dog will naturally TRAIL, but not track... Trailing allows for air scent of conditions call for it.. Tracking requires obedience, patience, unbelievable focus and thus drive to get to end of track.. Trailing is natural, tracking is not... Tracking is slow, methodical while trailing is usually much faster and adaptable to conditions.."

Sorry if I confused any one on this tread. I am a beginner in tracking and my comment was specifically aimed at "tracking" I am also here to learn and expand my knowledge. Thanks for clarifying the difference Misty what I meant is;

When a deep nosed tracking dog is in "work mode" on the field I agree a 100% with Misty he's/Her tracking requires obedience, patience, unbelievable focus and thus drive to get to end of track. It is done slowly ( not at a snails speed though)and methodically : ) 

From the beginning of training, once we (My dog and I) get on a track and the cue is giving, trailing is not encouraged but tracking is .Once we end the track( finished) he uses his nose however way he pleases (air scent ,trail etc)

(praising/marking the behaviour you want during training reinforces the likelyhood of that behaviour increasing =tracking or decreasing=trailing.)


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Matt, the mere fact that your dog was ping ponging from new to old track tells me two things. One...at least he was trying to work it out. Two...you need to build the foundation more. Try the tracking square process I posted above. It works great on dogs of every breed and level of drive. With the tracking square protocol you will be doing about 30 squares before actually running a track for the dog to follow. Yes it takes time but it's time well spent. I used this method on retrievers, labs, **** hounds, a mini Dachsund and even a Chinese Hairless.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Will do dude


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## shelle fenton (Sep 24, 2015)

21 day track challenge. I admire your persistence!

I get 2 in a week, and feel like a hero. 

I have a mature GSD, that had done Steve Courtney Tracking through Drive, which allows air scenting, and visual tracking. Real world tracking indeed. Fast. 
And a year ago, retrained US in IPO FTS. 
(been retraining a lot of things this last year

I think ANKC tracking is more fun for me. and FTS is more intensely satisfying for him, so we do that


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## shelle fenton (Sep 24, 2015)

Howard Knauf said:


> Matt, the mere fact that your dog was ping ponging from new to old track tells me two things. One...at least he was trying to work it out. Two...you need to build the foundation more. Try the tracking square process I posted above. It works great on dogs of every breed and level of drive. With the tracking square protocol you will be doing about 30 squares before actually running a track for the dog to follow. Yes it takes time but it's time well spent. I used this method on retrievers, labs, **** hounds, a mini Dachsund and even a Chinese Hairless.


This is the method, my club is teaching me. my new Pup arrives today, attends his 1st tracking session tomorrow at the club. And it will be 3 tracking squares. and that's it. for that 'game' anyhow.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Cool, thanks 

Ok day 5 (technically day six) had a rest day yesterday to attempt to eliminate any bad vibes after the disaster and so this morning ran 3 tracks back to back which Kath laid in a new field which had medium height meadow grass (appx 8" height) not a drop of wind and blazing sunshine. scant food drops and a dummy for first prize  That went super well but forgot the camera so left him kick about for the day and then went to an a joining field where the grass was higher and thicker to do some easy motivational tracks, three in quick succession all laid by Kath 2 very short ones and one longer with a right turn. Wind had picked up and was all over the place.
Here's how that went:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jnHd_TSbHo


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Looking good!

Have you done any of the box work?


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks Bob, Box work is on todays menu I think.

Forgot to post this vid, from yesterdayKath went ahead and laid a track in a grass verge on the way home. Wind was behind us I I think maybe coming a across right to left. She walked normally as usual (which is dead handy as her stride is tiny) and placed a bit o hotdog every 5 steps. Her remit was to head for the tree go round it to the right take a few steps and drop a food bomb, I asked her to do this as the grass is short and I didn't want him to spot it with his eyes and just make a beeline for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZqEkvYTc_Q


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Sarah Platts said:


> Nice vid and Reggie is coming along great.
> 
> One of the things I dislike when using food, is having the dog working well, moving their nose from footstep to footstep and then catching a whiff of the food left behind and having them flip around and backtrack to nose all over the immediate area to find that piece of food. I'm thinking there should be a better way. * Will have to ponder on this.*


Did your ponderings yield any results yet? Because I hate that too


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Matt Vandart said:


> Did your ponderings yield any results yet? Because I hate that too


Not yet, I'm thinking you will have to lay with heavy regard for the wind but would rather not rely on that as micro currents will sink you every time.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Day 6

Did box work this morning, to hot to do anything other than bum around today, might lay a track this evening when it cools down.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Matt,

Being a motorcycle guy I couldn't help but wonder what was with all the bikes I heard in your 2nd to last video. Were you near a race track?


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Yeah, we're next to a race track, a military bombing range and an airport


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm guessing your dogs aren't a bit noise shy. :lol:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

That is correct


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> Did your ponderings yield any results yet? Because I hate that too


Block the movement of the dog with the line. Only forward movement leads to the reward. Go to A to get to B, nothing else.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

maybe that would learn the dog that tracks only go in straight lines?


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Well the question for me is what is your end goal? To have a real world trailer or a point making tracker.. They do differ and how you go about each one, while similar is still different and down the road, very different.. What is allowable for one is not for the other.. So end goals is important, imo


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Not really thought about it much, probs just make it up as I go along tbh


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Matt said: Not really thought about it much, probs just make it up as I go along tbh

You might find more focus and a clearer path to training if you had an idea of what you envision you and your dog doing.. Even if just for fun... If you are thinking 'I could have my niece or nephew (or whomever) go hide (when they are hyperactive driving me nuts j/k) and have my dog and I go find them'. Then you might focus on the trailing aspect (because kids don't always do as told and stay on soft surfaces).. Or if you think 'I would like to watch my dog work 5 turns and 750yds with downs on articles, nose to the ground with precision' then you would gear more towards the tracking style... Just a suggestion, but you are moving along your way too, so not saying anything is being done wrong .. Just might be easier to have a clear idea of what is in the agenda and overall goal, imo


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> maybe that would learn the dog that tracks only go in straight lines?


If you think it will, it will. What you think about you bring about. 

As you know, what you do to ensure success in the teaching phase is often slowly faded out as the work progresses. You started with the loose fundamentals of FST and asked for suggestions, using that teaching method I suggested is often one solution to the problem. It's not the only one, of course, and it only learns the dog that tracking goes in straight lines if the tracks are only ever laid in straight lines.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> *If you think it will, it will. What you think about you bring about.
> *
> As you know, what you do to ensure success in the teaching phase is often slowly faded out as the work progresses. You started with the loose fundamentals of FST and asked for suggestions, using that teaching method I suggested is often one solution to the problem. It's not the only one, of course, and it only learns the dog that tracking goes in straight lines if the tracks are only ever laid in straight lines.


Bolded bit I wholeheartedly agree with 

Good point on the other bit.
There are two reasons I am slack as **** on the line really.

One: I am generally slack as **** with my training as I don't compete.

Two: At this stage which is still early days I want him to loose the track really so he can work out how to get back to it. 
When I had my spaz out the other day because he was going off track it was mostly down to my bad mood and bad dose of PTSD. I think it paid off in one weird way which I was unaware of at the time which was the fact he was following old tracks which obviously I don't want to happen and was just luck I was in a stinker. Or that is how I am gonna look at it.

I wonder what Rick thinks?

Anyway day 7 (technically day 9, day 7 and 8 we did only boxes) and I have done a couple of tracks on the original field. 

Conditions were good on the ground with plenty of moisture. Wind was negligible but all over the place with some gusts. 
Track laid with food every 3 steps faded to ever 5, then a mini food dump at the post track continues round the post with a big food dump and scent pad at the other side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZj-ede8X64

Second track again food every 3 faded quickly into every 5 then a 10 step with no food to a food dump. track then carried on with the same pattern to another food dump at the other side of the field but Mr Camera was feeling weak today and gave up at the first food dump. Not sure if I am seeing any improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEtvcHnC4Us

I think I shall have to think about Misty's post and get some kind of end goal in mind. I am considering actually bothering my ass to compete in working trials (KC sport) with Reggie as he is a 100% social clear headed beast so doing things in public will not be any stress.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Excellent point about an end game. 

Even when your training for your own satisfaction you still need a plan how to go forward.

The structure of a plan, maybe even a club could be a huge help in doing that as opposed to to much randomness in training.


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## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Block the movement of the dog with the line. Only forward movement leads to the reward. Go to A to get to B, nothing else.


I've only watched a couple of videos just now and I agree with this. Pretty nice tho...


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks 

Right day 8? 9? can't remember anyway this one might give you a bit of a giggle. Went to the country park by us which is a massive woods and decided to just try Reggie out with some fun hide and seek games to see if he would use his nose.Basically the idea was run away into the woods and see if he could find you with his nose. Here is the only vid that came out of that idea although we then swapped roles and did a few more.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHmuIRNXFo4&feature=youtu.be

On a more serious note, if I am able to be serious ever, just on a whim decided to have a change of surface and laid a short hardish surface track for him. conditions were hard surface, bog all food and a small turn into the foliage to a food dump. This was a mistake and it wasn't at the same time. It was a mistake because it was too much too soon to put the turn in but it did show he was using his nose as you can see where he losses the track, which is good news I spose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCvTc5T9X3s


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt, it's fun to watch you work through this with him, but if it were me on the end of the camera I'd take a switch to you every time you opened your mouth to do anything other than praise the dog. 

Just an observation, if you don't mind. You helping him suggests two things:

1. it's habit
2. too much too soon

Dabbling around, maybe you won't mind either as you explore this path with your dogs. However...

I was given some advice early on which was to "guarantee the outcome you want to see". Even though I was not working with competition in mind, I never forgot the advice and I took it seriously. It's fair to think this is applicable irrespective of what you are training but I think it is especially true in scent based work.

Regardless of what you end up choosing to do with this type of activity, be mindful that #2 paired with #1 may become a difficult obstacle to overcome. Once you get into it deep, it can become extremely difficult to stop the temptation to do either one and when the groundwork isn't executed correctly from the onset, the skill of learning to read the dog can become segmented. 

That aside, you know your dogs and situation/ambitions better than anyone and can judge what's what on your end well enough.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Fun watching the runaways /fire trail... Imho, you will go much faster and develop the dogs drive to hunt faster, then food.. But that is just personal opinion and coming from a trailing vs tracking mindset... A handful of those type trails and your dog would already being doing turns most likely... I tend to talk to my dogs alot (outside of when my girl is moving fast, then I'm just sucking air, lol), but not with 'find him' 'search' 'where are they' or that sort.. Just narrating if they hit a scent pool, or a shift in wind, or to rate their speed if they (my girl) is pulling to freaking hard.. Etc.. Over motivating though, using commands constantly, is distracting for the dog... If I step on the line or it snags, I will tell them they are good and it is OK so they don't think it a reprimand, or they work out of a scent pool and are on target.. BUT, one of the worst things you can do is to keep driving the dog to search for an odor when it might not be there, this is when ghost trails appear.. The dog isn't doing what we expect and so we encourage until he looks like he is on a trail.. Any trail.. Oops, the wrong trail, lol... This of course happens more with blind trails and real world trails over tracks and known tracks... 

I would get a harness for sure though as your dog is definitely aware of the game and seems to enjoy it... On the track (hard surface or VST (variable surface trailing/tracking) you were leading the dog with your body alot.. Very easy to do.. If your dog stops.. You stop.. Problem with known tracks/trails is we can inadvertently lead our dogs.. We are confident they are going the right area (or wrong) and if they take longer then we think they should, we tend to do things that lead them... Dangerous ground to tread, imo
.. 

Otherwise, I see alot of progress in a short time! Great job


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ditto with Nicole!

You've just learned the difference between teaching an runaway exercise form FST.

As Nicole also said mixing #1 ND #2 forms of nose work can be very confusing to a dog.

I've said in the past that my GSD was finding me in the woods at 12 wks old using the runaway method but a couple of yrs doing that and the FST was very confusing to him. 

Different surfaces

Also confusing to many dogs for FST type scent work "I believe" because the dog is initially following disturbed ground maybe even more so then the human scent until it understands what you want.

You wont see this as much with the runaways because the dog , much more naturally will use it's nose once the runner is out of sight rather then following actual tracks from the get go.

Try the runaway again in a area you can send him off lead. 

Hide a bit off the path, lay down and be quiet.

You'll REALLY see the dog's nose come into play once it runs past where your hidden.

It can sometimes look like the dog runs into a wall when that happens.

Same with letting the dog quarter a field off lead and then hits scent. BAM!

I know you've seen that when sending the dog to find a ball, tug, etc.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> *Matt, it's fun to watch you work through this with him, but if it were me on the end of the camera I'd take a switch to you every time you opened your mouth to do anything other than praise the dog. *


HAHAHAHAH! just tell Kath I'm sure she will follow your advice willingly!

Re: the rest of the post's duly noted thanks 

I think I am gonna ditch the food completely, tbh I think it is just distracting him badly. Reggie is not really food driven but if he finds it he will scoff it down. i think I will get better results by teaching him an article indication then get him to look for the articles. 

One thing I am pretty sure of though is that I think I am confusing him badly as instead of just sticking to my usual plan I am trying out everything people are suggesting from both here and FB. Not that I don't appreciate the advice/suggestions I really do. I think it is a case of I am getting confused and therefore he is getting confused due to my confusingness confusing an already confusing situation.

The method I started out with is basically new to me too, I usually do something similar but with no food and shorter tracks. I think I am getting frustrated and its making me do all the bullshit moves.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Anyway having said that, Day ten and someone had driven over my field in their car, GRRR. Ah well took advantage and walked down one of the tire tracks and food bombed it. big drop at the end with scent pad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrZJJ_c36QM&feature=youtu.be

Then we did another longer track with turns, dunno if you can see it each turn is marked with a marker pole. This part of the field I discovered after I had laid the track and was proudly looking at my creation and could see the track due to the angle of the sun at my finish point was covered in cross tracks where some kids must have gone across to get to the beach, doh...... anyway decided to go with it as it had taken me ages to lay and he did pretty well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u3hwFcuy38&feature=youtu.be


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Good to see you narrowing down your goals and finding what works for you... Usually having a plan an sticking with it only is best, as confusion doesn't take place.. Problem is, when starting out, you don't know which plan will work for you and your dog, so you try multiple venues.. Understandable but frustrating.. Still, it didn't take you too long for you to start narrowing down your goals and settling on what you like for you and your dog.. Excellent


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt I haven't checked out your newest videos yet but I agree on the food. It has it's place but doesn't seem to be a good fit for you or the dog. I mean come on, you wear camo pants with a huge ass hole in the back. FST, competition, all that screams a bit of a venture without much pleasure just from watching you over the years.

I was somewhat inspired to work on something with the Dutch since she hasn't done much ground work, but next week I will be leaving Alaska for a while and won't be taking my dogs with me.

Keep at it and good luck to you!


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> Matt I haven't checked out your newest videos yet but I agree on the food. *It has it's place but doesn't seem to be a good fit for you or the dog. I mean come on, you wear camo pants with a huge ass hole in the back. FST, competition, all that screams a bit of a venture without much pleasure just from watching you over the years.*
> 
> I was somewhat inspired to work on something with the Dutch since she hasn't done much ground work, but next week I will be leaving Alaska for a while and won't be taking my dogs with me.
> 
> Keep at it and good luck to you!


Correct  
I do like it though, have trained FST before, I just got bored half to death with the whole thing. I understand why people are more impressed watching FST in vids and in real life too, it's easier to see the dog succeeding.
Having said that I think the IPO stuff is awesome, love watching it, all three phases and I really admire people who do it but it's not really my bag.
Competition in general is not really my thing or third party validation but I understand a need for both.
If I was to actually pull my finger out I would like Ring sports best. 

Also thanks


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Ok day 13 of tracking, unlucky for the Knights Templar but not for me and Reggie it would seem....
Had a break in between because shit was going a bit south and I had to regroup and brain storm, tried loads of stuff, it all sucked So I did this.....
Here's a vid of what I did. I have put captions on the vid to explain whats going on but forgot to vid the first step which was to put the tie out stake in the ground. I have fast forwarded it to avoid boredom of the viewer and there is a test track at the end showing the results.
Conditions:
Wind: strong as can be seen by the trees in the background.
Wind direction: ignored 
Ground: Fairly short grass in firm dirt.
I'm happy with the outcome 
I now have a plan 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGeFDBak6CA


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## Ray Turnbow (Sep 6, 2015)

Very cool idea, and it looks like you had good results!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Very interesting!

Question

Lets say the wind was coming from 3 oclock straight across to 9 oclock,

With that, did you notice and shift to the inside of the track at 3 oclock?

I've seen dogs fall into a habit and working a bit on the down side of the track from the wind.

Not a big deal in "real world" tracking but it can be a point eater for sport tracking.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks guys 
Do you mean did I notice ANY shift? like the dog shifting

Or

Do you mean did I notice AND shift? like me shifting the bait/track?

I'm kinda not following sorry


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The dog shifting to the downwind side of the actual track. 

No uncommon in the beginning with FST sport tracking.

Again, not an issue in real world tracking because the idea is to simply get to the person being tracked.

With your system the dog can't move outside the track because the tether keeps him on top of it when at the down wind side of the track circle but the upwind side of the circle the dog has the option to do that.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nah, he's got about 2ft of line outside the circle  so he can go outside the track as well as inside the track too.


Anyway second day of this experimental method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A5m0lRddaE


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

2ft isn't long for real world.. Scent can blow 10ft per 1mph...so, it becomes more fst then real world trailing..


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Still not bad for a dog with his short length of training without competition in mind. 

I do know that AKC tracking is less anal then Schutzhund in that as long as the dog gets from start to finish and alerts on the articles it's just pass or fail.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Misty Wegner said:


> 2ft isn't long for real world.. Scent can blow 10ft per 1mph...so, it becomes more fst then real world trailing..


Correct I got sucked into FST by FB trainers claiming my dog was "wandering around a field looking for food" lol


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Matt Vandart said: Correct I got sucked into FST by FB trainers claiming my dog was "wandering around a field looking for food" lol

Understand, especially when learning something new it is easy to get drug around with all the different ideas and styles... Which is why I think having a solid idea of what you are working towards will help you settle and ultimately, move faster without as many hiccups... I have a SAR friend who was forced in a given direction, and while many good minded people tried to 'help' with their perspectives and advice, it ended up a year of disaster and frustration.. She almost quit... She decided to try traili5(which she had wanted to do in the first place) and was super low... I offered to help, telling her that no offense would be taken if she did want to follow the style I offered, but her best bet was to find ONE way and stick with it (if she and her dogiked it).. She had been doing about 20ft hides... I had 150meter hot trail laid with a starting cent article and 1 scent article at the 90degree turn (the rest of the trail was winding and through trees)... Her dog ROCKED! She moved quickly, nose glued to ground, overshot the 2nd scent article and doubled back in a split second found her subject.. Did this 3x with distance increased, then rest.. Took her out and repeated abandoned hour later, and this time she had a crowd of 5 people flanking her (following) to watch (this dog had been evaluated by a professional and told it had no play or prey drive and would not be a good search dog)... She ignored all the distractions and found her subject 3x with even a 5minute delayed start and not seeing her subject leave or where she went.. Needless to say, my friend is ecstatic and regaining her confidence in her dog and herself... 

I say all that as an example of how multiple advice can cause problems.. Her dog is just over a year old.. It is SAR, so trailing 'real world' vs tracking, but either style is fine as long as you are clear on what you want


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Matt, I just caught the last video and my recommendation is to not stand up next to his shoulder when he stops. I'm not sure why you are standing there unless to see where he has his nose at, but your presence can push the dog off a track and besides you are just getting in his way. 

One of the issues with using flags (or washers with flagging tape on them) is that these items can hold human scent. In essence they create little human scent pools so if Reggie is using the human scent in addition to the crushed vegetation then he is having to work the trail out of the micro-scent pool created by the flag. No problem because he did exactly that but something to think about and another reason to stay behind the dog and not get wrapped up with him.

to see if this is actually what's happening, have the person lay another track, this time without flags and use natural items (sticks, a limb from a bush sticking out) or trash already in place to mark the turns. Tell the person to not touch these things but just make note of them or have you watch her lay the track and YOU make note of where the turns are.

Other than the dog stumbling over you, it was very nice.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Yah I required to see that he was actually sniffing out the foot prints or trailing as the grass is dry and the ground hard so I couldn't see from anywhere but up his ass. TBH I'm gonna let the dog decide which way he tracks, I think he would be better suited to trailing and "real world" no plans to compete, just wanted to see if my experiment would work. I'm pretty sure it did myself. That and pressures to show he was actually "tracking" some people just can't seem to equate anything other than IPO style FST with tracking it seems.
I'll let Reggie dictate which way we go, if it was entirely up to me I would just lay tracks sit in a chair and let him go, lol.
Flag will probably cause him to use his eyes and head for it as well, I did think about that, but not the scent pool point, good plan, thanks.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Matt Vandart said: I'll let Reggie dictate which way we go, if it was entirely up to me I would just lay tracks sit in a chair and let him go, lol.

I know it is a joke, but for me, I tell you it is a thing of beauty to watch a dog work a trail.. To be a partner in this, watching smooth negatives, strong drive in odor, the changes of tail set, breathing, head carriage, pull on the line.. All communication that is like a Morse code between the two of you... Magical... To make a find in conditions that seem surreal is icing on the cake.... Truly an art form, and one we get to be a partner to... Awesome... (yes, I am passionate about it , lol)


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Matt Vandart said:


> .... I couldn't see from anywhere but up his ass.


LOL Matt, this is the end, that if you are into tracking or trailing, you will ALWAYS see. Like always getting the last chapter in a book. Gives you a new insight on your perspective.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Day 15 day 3 of experimental FST method, corner time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLkfKfSfq8s


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Love the commentary. If the lead is to heavy buy some light cording. There was one guy who used clothesline for his lead.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If I may, the commentary can be to much. 

Some dogs can be distracted by it and some may become to dependent on it.

For the corners I would work on large serpentine tracks and slowly sharpen the edges.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I was talking of the written comments, I view with the speakers off so if he's talking, I'm not hearing that part.


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

My thoughts on talking... 

Although, I do talk often (talking out my thoughts at difficult junctions, or large scent pools with confusing exits) so that the dogs aren't distracted when I have flankers, who will and do talk (radio squaks, etx)... But I also run silent, so they are well versed either way...


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Misty Wegner said:


> My thoughts on talking...
> 
> Although, I do talk often (talking out my thoughts at difficult junctions, or large scent pools with confusing exits) so that the dogs aren't distracted when I have flankers, who will and do talk (radio squaks, etx)... But I also run silent, so they are well versed either way...


Yah, get him used to it 

Bob, I wanted him to miss that turn to see if he was following track scent, not just pretending with his nose to the deck, would have preferred if he hadn't doubled back on the track but hey ho, shit happens and he found his way right again, he will know what to do next time now 
I have thought about a lighter line Sarah but we'll see how he goes with a tighter harness. 

Thanks for the replies peeps. 

I am starting on articles parallel to his tracking stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfukqdQst3g


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sarah Platts said:


> I was talking of the written comments, I view with the speakers off so if he's talking, I'm not hearing that part.


Got it! :wink:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt, I like the way your working him on the bench. 

That would be great for my tired old back. :lol:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I am really pleased with how Reggie has taken to tracking. 
No idea how long the track is, temp is high though, wind is strong and coming towards the camera from the right of the screen so back cross wind, track is fresh, not much food randomly deposited.

Didn't do a scent circle today.
Walking normally the track goes straight lightly sprinkled with food, lol, to right hand corner 90, crosses a little drainage ditch carries on to left hand corner 90, stamped in on the straight for a few paces then no food stamped in to the article with food underneath.
I was a bit bullish about the down on the article I would not usually as I don't like using force but once I had asked for a down I had to carry through with it I feel. Should not have bothered asking for that, needs more work on the position and I kinda regret it now.
Didn't make it easy for Reggie today but he did well. 
Actual "tracking" starts at 38 seconds
Need to get some paracord, that heavy line is screwing his position up if I don't hold it high 

I think I shall start going for duration soon next. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MMLYjVFIAg


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Me? I think I would have done it different. He knows the down but now you are tying it to an article. I would have laid out a straight line track with articles (like a glove or sock) about 10 feet or so apart for about 4 items. I would have put a treat on top of the article. I would hold position right off the back quarter of the dog. When he gets to an article, the dog stops to eat the treat, cue the down and treat again with the item between his front legs. Do several clicks and treats. Then pick up the item and have him start tracking again. When he gets to the next item, he gets the treat and you cue the down and click/reward. Then rinse and repeat for about 4 articles. If you want to use a mix of wood, metal, plastic then start adding in those items.
Do several straight line tracks until the dog is getting the pictures and starts to down on his own. Click and reward. Once he's got that then you can start going back to regular tracks and articles placed as irregular intervals. Keep the food on the items for several more runs. Gradually increase your distance from the dog and gradually phase out the food but when the dog downs you click and reward. If the dog is out of position then cue the dog into the right position - article between his front legs or however you want him to do it. 

But that's, me......


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Yah I agree, I am actually training him articles separately, similar to how you describe but slightly different (there'll be vids, lol) 
I put the glove at the end with food under it with the intention of him flipping it to get the food himself but kinda got cocky after his track.
It'll be fine though, we always succeed in the end 

Thanks for that reply Sarah


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I would have done it different too. In the first video of about 5:31 it took that much time (certainly 10 minutes or less in total) to teach my Dutch the complete process - separate from a track that is.

I taught it at about 3.5 mo. Came back to it later maybe when she was two. She tried to eat the article so I put her up then about 18 months ago I laid out a 3x3 square piece of counter top material as the article. Before I knew it she was laying over the article just as she had when I originally taught it.

I have both sessions on video. Not that it matters either way, there's many ways to do achieve this. I wanted the most direct approach to see what I'd get and I achieved that. Matt, I said before, it's been interesting watching this process. Not many people are willing to put their ground work out there like that. Yer kinda special


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> I would have done it different too. In the first video of about 5:31 it took that much time (certainly 10 minutes or less in total) to teach my Dutch the complete process - separate from a track that is.
> 
> I taught it at about 3.5 mo. Came back to it later maybe when she was two. She tried to eat the article so I put her up then about 18 months ago I laid out a 3x3 square piece of counter top material as the article. Before I knew it she was laying over the article just as she had when I originally taught it.
> 
> I have both sessions on video. Not that it matters either way, there's many ways to do achieve this. I wanted the most direct approach to see what I'd get and I achieved that. Matt, I said before, it's been interesting watching this process. Not many people are willing to put their ground work out there like that. Yer kinda special


Window licker special?

I like the giant article idea, might try that


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> Window licker special?
> 
> I like the giant article idea, might try that


Naw, not quite like that. Worthy of notice is a better definition of special.

Here's the example (at the bottom). The video is way too ****ing long but there were a few things going on in it that probably would have been lost or questioned if I didn't add some commentary on what I was doing.

This is what you get when you don't have shit for a plan and just wing it to see what you get. Not great, but I was more curious to see if she'd remember what to do. I am sure you can hear, I gave no commands except some praise and then when I released her to move her away from the article. Otherwise, she would have camped out over it until I left and then eat it up.

The article I spoke of earlier (the one she tried to eat) was a similarly sized piece of low pile carpet. The countertop material was flatter and not as much fun or interest to her so it worked. When I originally taught her, I used a kitchen sponge. I have no idea why. I guess because it was handy and I wanted to see if I could train a puppy how to do an article indication. 

I'd never trained an article indication before but I knew she would down so I had her come into position, gave the command, and rewarded at the source, which is where I fed her meals. Three 1-2 minute sessions and it seemed like it was in order by the time I recorded the video I have of her on line as a puppy. 

In the video below is appears mostly complete, albeit crude. Sans any of the sport particulars that would naturally escape my attention due to a lack of knowledge regarding expectations for exacting behavior/positioning from a competitive standpoint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJyyS2gQINU


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

She's special!

Thanks for the reply, cool vid 

I lol'd so hard at the copper pipe vid yesterday, I was like "wow this dog is madder than Sali :O "


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I have one of her with two PVC pipes, the video is set to private because she acts like a complete asshole in the video. She was an angry little bitch at 8 months. I mostly leave her alone now with stuff like that. You know, a little like the Incredible Hulk, "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqZuhrDM5vE


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Aw, can I see the vid please? I bet she's just like Sali


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

We can only hope. I sent it to ya.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> Naw, not quite like that. Worthy of notice is a better definition of special.
> 
> Here's the example (at the bottom). The video is way too ****ing long but there were a few things going on in it that probably would have been lost or questioned if I didn't add some commentary on what I was doing.
> 
> ...



Nothing crude about that at all. She's better then more then a few competition dogs I've seen.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Is that right? 

If so, that's somewhat surprising to read, especially considering how little time and exposure she's had to the exercise. In the most recent video she's pretty much doing all the work. I simply respond accordingly to correct or incorrect responses.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

"In the most recent video she's pretty much doing all the work. I simply respond accordingly to correct or incorrect responses."

Yup, that's juts exactly how I train, especially Sali, looking at your dutch I rekon it's the best way to go with this kind of dog it would seem.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nicole and Matt, it's not the yrs in training that makes a person good, it's understanding the how and why. 

I see that in both of you. That and consistency in your efforts.

To many folks train because "that's how I was told to do it". ](*,)

I guess most of us may have started out that way it's just that some never get past it.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Why thank you Bob


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> it's not the yrs in training that makes a person good, it's understanding the how and why.


 And this



Bob Scott said:


> To many folks train because "that's how I was told to do it".


This is what separates the wheat from the chaff. Its how you separate folks who say they have 10 years of experience. Well, do you? Do you really have 10 years of experience? Or is it one year of experience ten times?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That's what I still like about this forum.

Anyone can offer suggestions and EVERYONE is worth listening to.

Can we disagree? 

ABSOLUTELY but at the very least think about what is said. :wink:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Article indication training part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQK32SPpp7k


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Is there an article where the dog is being lured to?

In the past you've posted videos with excellent work on finding articles.

Just toss those articles close and when the dog gets to them give a down or whatever alert you want.

It wont take long for your guys to figure it out and they'll start alerting. 

Even walking around with the dog on a lead and things tossed on the ground can be worked.

Their curiosity about what's on the ground can be used for shaping the alert. 

When they get to it and sniff it simply give the alert command, mark and reward when they perform.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Yah there are articles that have been in Kaths pockets for half an hour. I am restraining him so he gets a full nose full of the object she is pointing to then letting him to it, down cue she flips the article to reveal the sweeties


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sounds good!

When it starts indicating on articles with no food then you can walk up and reward the dog at the article after it has downed at the article.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

That's the plan


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