# Helper Work



## Alyssa Myracle

We all know that our helpers are the most important part of our training team. A good helper can make or break a dog.

My question is, for those of you that belong to clubs, do you PAY your helper(s)?
If you don't, do you provide another form of compensation (waived membership dues, waived trial fees, etc)?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Seems to be a growing trend.


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## Alyssa Myracle

So I'm told.
Do you think its good or bad?


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## Greg Naranjo

Alyssa Myracle said:


> do you PAY your helper(s)? If you don't, do you provide another form of compensation (waived membership dues, waived trial fees, etc)?


Discounted membership dues, have extra sleeve covers available, send them to a seminar every once in a while, offer a beer or two after training and most importantly, have someone competent available to work his dog too.


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## Alyssa Myracle

We try to host our own helper seminars as much as possible, mainly as a benefit for our helpers.

No discounted membership dues, but WE as a club provide ALL the equipment.
None of our helpers has to go out and buy anything- we do that for them. Scratch pants, sleeves and covers, jackets, etc. So, I guess it evens out.


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## Alex Corral

Alyssa Myracle said:


> We try to host our own helper seminars as much as possible, mainly as a benefit for our helpers.
> 
> No discounted membership dues, but WE as a club provide ALL the equipment.
> None of our helpers has to go out and buy anything- we do that for them. Scratch pants, sleeves and covers, jackets, etc. So, I guess it evens out.


Alyssa, do your helpers get to keep that stuff if they leave the club for whatever reason? 

Our club provides the same, but they are property of the club. I, myself am a helper, and think it's better that way.


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## Alyssa Myracle

The equipment ultimately belongs to the club.
If the helper goes, the equipment stays. So long as the helper is with the club, it's theirs to use and abuse as they see fit.


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## Alex Corral

So the helpers abuse the equipment? The dog's teeth do nothing to those covers huh? Hmm... that's very interesting. :lol: 

I think Greg nailed it.


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## Howard Gaines III

Alyssa Myracle said:


> We all know that our helpers are the most important part of our training team. A good helper can make or break a dog.
> 
> My question is, for those of you that belong to clubs, do you PAY your helper(s)?
> If you don't, do you provide another form of compensation (waived membership dues, waived trial fees, etc)?


Alyssa I hate to disagree but the helper is the second most important person. I think that the K-9 team of dog and handler are the first. Without their drive and desire to be there, the helper is just another guiding voice. Good or great helpers can help bring out the best in any dog, they can also ruin many!

Then if it's a Schutzhund club, where would the club be without he other officers and club members? Paying the helper is part of the club dues. A MUCH better way to "pay" is to pay with respect. Offer to carry the equipment, have it ready for the training day, and most important...say "Thank you" after you start to come off the field. I often say to my decoys/helpers, "Thanks" or "Thanks for decoying." If goes without saying but as a decoy, when you are getting your a$$ handed to you, the words spend better than the bling$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!


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## Jim Nash

I disagree . Beer is the best way to reward a helper . Just do it after the trail .


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## Howard Gaines III

Jim Nash said:


> I disagree . Beer is the best way to reward a helper . Just do it after the trail .


 
OK Nash, you sold me!!!!!!!!!! Bottle up or talk is cheap. Be here Sunday and none of that cheap a$$ Texas Star stuff!!!!!!!!! Even Delaware folk know quality.


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## Alyssa Myracle

In our club, if you get hurt doing helper work, the owner of the dog in question brings you a bottle of scotch... Or at least, I think that's how it goes... maybe that's just for when *I* get hurt doing helper work. 

Seems like I got ripped off- if everyone else is getting beer without injury.
I'd rather get beer and no injury, than scotch WITH injury.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I think it is a question of maybe ethics ??? If you are paying someone to work your dog, and then you trial where that decoy is at.........

50 bucks a dog adds up pretty quick. I prefer to see people doing this because they want to. To me it gets pretty messy pretty quick.

Once the money is there, then maybe the sport should just turn professional, and money is awarded to the winner.


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## Jason Sidener

I think something maybe wrong with me because I completly agree with Jeff.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

IMO a decoy in a club doesn't need to get paid, but it's nice when people say thank you at the end of training.

But I am not opposed to decoys being paid outside of club time. I'd rather take the time to work my dog right, away from a club, than deal with the rush job you are forced to deal with in so many clubs.

I was talking to a trainer here the other day that used to run a club, and his major peeve was that by the time he was ready to work his dog, everyone else would be sitting in the club house drinking coffee. He now just does private training instead.


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## Kadi Thingvall

I agree with Jeff. That said, I have paid for helper work, but I don't like the trend. My "favorite" though is when someone new who is just learning to work dogs wants to be paid for their work. Umm, I'm bringing my dog out, risking damaging my dog physically, mentally, or training wise so you can learn proper technique, how to read a dog, etc and you want me to pay you??? My other favorite is when I let someone learn on my dogs, usually setting their own training back in the process, and once the decoy is finally at the point where they are actually really benefitting the dog, then they decide that now that they are experienced they should be paid. Maybe they should have paid me for the use of my dogs for the last 6-12 months?

I always thank my decoys for working my dogs, and try to occasionally give them some other form of thanks. I also like the idea of the club helping with equipment costs. Unfortunately suits are a personal thing since they should be sized to the wearer, but clubs could always purchase covers for the suits and other equipment like the tugs, leg sleeves, arm sleeves etc. But in those situtations the equipment belongs to the club and shouldn't be used for purposes outside of club training (ie no private clients). Most of the decoys I know who charge for their club work are also working private clients on the side, so they would need to purchase their own equipment in that scenario anyway. In some of the clubs I've been a member of decoys also didn't pay dues, and the club tried to pay entry fees to seminars and other learning opportunities.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
I think something maybe wrong with me because I completly agree with Jeff.

You know I am your hero. :mrgreen:


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## Howard Gaines III

Unless it's a clinic, why are you paying the helper? What are dues for then? Pay the helper, then pay the assistant helper, the club pres, and any others looking for a stim hand out!!!!


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## Skip Morgart

All our helpers (we currently have 3, including the TD's son) pay the same membership dues as everybody else, and the helpers aren't paid anything.... BUT, our membership dues are only 100 bucks a year. It's the oldest USA club in the US still ran by the same TD (John Nussbaum). Some of us always make sure to bring beer for everybody though.


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## Jason Sidener

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You know I am your hero.


Suddenly I don't feel so good


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## Alyssa Myracle

Our dues are the lowest in the area (like Skip's), and we don't pay our helper(s).

We have one certified helper, and two of us that *almost* got certified (we're ALL certifiable, though).

The conversation of paying our certified helper (and by far, he does the most work) came up. 
I, like most of y'all, thought it was ludicrous, but it was mentioned that some clubs actually do this.

I was just curious how common it really is. 

IMO, do it for the love of the sport, or not at all.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

Our TD is a founding member of our club and huge driving force in our success. He does not get paid and does not get reduced dues (neither do the other two). We offered reduced dues when we first formed and he said no. Our old club did pay the helper and half the time he didn't show...

We have an expense account (visa debit) and he buys the equipment that he thinks we need usually. Some times he donates things out of his own pocket. We always say thank you to them. There are a few members who go the extra mile for our helpers. We bring or buy lunch and always keep a cooler with water or gatorade for the guys or other small gifts.

Last summer we took a lot of donations and sent our TD to the WUSV. He knows we love him.

One of our helpers drive almost 3 hours to train with us- usually 2 x's a week in the summer (can you imagone his fuel bill?)/

Julie


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## Alyssa Myracle

> Our old club did pay the helper and half the time he didn't show...


That's how the whole matter of paying the helper came up.
We had a spurt of absenteeism with our helper. Some club members though attendance could be improved with a cash incentive.

I felt like that was a slap in the face to the TD (who like yours, is a founding member of the club and has 30+ years in the sport), and to everyone else who shows up, trains hard and is willing to put on a sleeve when needed to work the helper's dog for him, or do puppy work.


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## Andy Larrimore

Alyssa, what makes a helper certified?


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

USA has a helper certification program with different levels. I think they have to re-certificate every couple of years.


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## Kadi Thingvall

That brings up another issue I have with paying a helper. If the helper should get paid, then why not the people who are out there coaching everyone in obedience, tracking, jumps, etc. When does it stop? And I agree, it's a slap in the face to the people who are out there busting their butt helping other club members with their obedience or tracking, sometimes helping the helper with those phases, and they may get a "thank you" but when it comes to protection it's "pony up time".

Call me jaded, but I was an FR decoy for years, and never once was paid for it. And I wouldn't have taken the money if it was offered, although I did recieve some nice gifts for which I was very thankful. So when I train with a group and know I'm going to be paying the helper, it's hard to find the enthusiasm to jump up and offer my help for free in the other phases. 

To me it's either a club, in which everyone helps everyone else to the best of their abilities, or it's a business, in which case the person getting paid is the one who should be doing the work.


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## Jason Sidener

I went to check out a new club once. After a few times being out I was told I had to pay the helper. I told them I would pay him if I used him thinking I wouldn't do protection work there (had another club for that) but could still do obedience there and could use the people for groups and strangers for fake judges and use the jumps. But I was told if I come out to train I had to pay the helper if I used him or not. So I don't train there any more


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## Alyssa Myracle

Yes, what Julie said.
USA has a Helper Certification program.

We had a Seminar/Certification last summer, wherein two of us *almost* certified.
The third club member was already certified and just attending as a refresher and perhaps to pick up some new techniques.

Of the two of us that didn't pass, neither of us had much finesse in the courage test. We both need more practice.


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## Edward Egan

I feel that paying the helper leads to many problems. Some people can pay more than others etc., The club funds should be used to provide equipment needed, maybe send a helper to seminars provided he's been around long enough and not going anywhere. The only exception would be if the helper drives a long distance to the field. Then maybe general funds could offset this.


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## Laura Bollschweiler

Jason Sidener said:


> I went to check out a new club once. After a few times being out I was told I had to pay the helper. I told them I would pay him if I used him thinking I wouldn't do protection work there (had another club for that) but could still do obedience there and could use the people for groups and strangers for fake judges and use the jumps. But I was told if I come out to train I had to pay the helper if I used him or not. So I don't train there any more


Jason,

Just curious...did that club have overhead expenses? Like rent, obed equipment, etc.? What if the club members contributed to those costs and their field time was compromised because a guest wanted to come out for free and use their "services"?

Laura


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## Jason Sidener

Laura,

I was still going to be paying club dues just like everyone else but that particular club also payed the helper per dog that he worked.


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## Laura Bollschweiler

Okay, well, then it just doesn't make sense to me! If you were contributing to the overhead expenses, and presumably taking your turn helping out as part of the group or whatever, what's the problem with just doing obedience? So if someone had an interest in Schutzhund but wanted to only do the tracking and obed titles, would they be required to pay the helper too? I assume so.

Laura


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

All guest pay a $10 fee to our club. It is not a helper payment but a club payment. We all pay about $700 per year in our club (we like to host trials and seminars) of some one is going to use our time they are going to pay. You can watch for free but if the dog comes we charge.

The only exception is when people are preparing for a trial we allow the other club to train with us a couple of times at no charge and they also do the same for us (should we choose).


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## marta wade

Wow, I must be in the wrong part of town. The clubs I have gone to in the LA, CA area pay the decoy unless the decoys payment is learning the trade...I wonder if it makes a difference as to the type of training easily avaialble. If they know we dont want to drive for hours(and pay for gas) we will pay to play?Of course finding the right decoy is worth the money anyway...
Marta


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## Greg Naranjo

Alyssa Myracle said:


> No discounted membership dues, but WE as a club provide ALL the equipment.
> None of our helpers has to go out and buy anything- we do that for them. Scratch pants, sleeves and covers, jackets, etc. So, I guess it evens out.


IMO, it really doesn't even out. I your case, the equipment belongs to the club. Even if your club would give the equipment to the helpers, I for one would not accept it (except for the occassional sleeve cover) as I would not like feeling indebted to anyone. 

Feeling appreciated goes a long way and discounted membership fees and a genuine "thank you" (with a beer here and there) would suffice for me. You have to keep in mind that helpers risk injury, their bodies get abused and eventually break down ie..torn miniscus & loose ribs that shouldn't be, are just to name a few. Appreciate the fact that despite the risk, they still work dogs for the love of the sport. Without a good one, you will not get far in this sport period. 

And as far as paying a helper for their services would depend on who is doing the helper work. Just because the dude may have done trial work at a national or world event does not necessarily qualify him as a good training helper. Before I would pay anyone to suit up for my dog, 1) they better follow my training plan or 2) if I don't know what the hell I'm doing, they better be competing at a national level with their own dogs. 

.


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## Howard Gaines III

Jaded Kadi...Nice ring! If you pay the decoy/helper, all then should have a hand in the pie...fair is fair. If your club is requiring other members to do club work, and I said requiring, then some form of dues discount should be extended. The girl or guy who holds the back tie line is important in bite work, the person who creates ads/PR is important, the track layer/s need their palm slapped green, and the poop detail team at trails need some help. 

Kadi like you said, unless it is a business or the club by-laws call for decoy payment , I would question it greatly....too many other important folk out there!!! Greg, thanks and a beer, you work nice and cheaply as a decoy... My math...one cheap beer in a can $.95


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## Greg Naranjo

Howard Gaines III said:


> one cheap beer in a can $.95


no cans please, and I do prefer drinking Chimay


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## Alyssa Myracle

Greg Naranjo said:


> IMO, it really doesn't even out. I your case, the equipment belongs to the club. Even if your club would give the equipment to the helpers, I for one would not accept it (except for the occassional sleeve cover) as I would not like feeling indebted to anyone.
> 
> Feeling appreciated goes a long way and discounted membership fees and a genuine "thank you" (with a beer here and there) would suffice for me. You have to keep in mind that helpers risk injury, their bodies get abused and eventually break down ie..torn miniscus & loose ribs that shouldn't be, are just to name a few. Appreciate the fact that despite the risk, they still work dogs for the love of the sport. Without a good one, you will not get far in this sport period.
> 
> And as far as paying a helper for their services would depend on who is doing the helper work. Just because the dude may have done trial work at a national or world event does not necessarily qualify him as a good training helper. Before I would pay anyone to suit up for my dog, 1) they better follow my training plan or 2) if I don't know what the hell I'm doing, they better be competing at a national level with their own dogs.
> 
> .


I do helper work for our "real" helper's dog. I broke my finger earlier this year and have re-injured an old rotator cuff injury more times than I care to recall. So I definintely understand the risk of injury and beating the body up doing the work.

I'm enjoying all the varying points of view, and hearing how other clubs are addressing the issue.


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## Michelle Reusser

At the clubs I have been to regardless of venue, there is a "field fee" you show up to work your dog, you pay the fee. It's 1 price for members (less per dog) and more per non member. I guess it goes to the club "owner" not always sure how they use it and of course there is the club yearly fee, used for equipt I'm guessing. My club trains alot of decoys, they get use of the equipt and dogs to work but no $. Why pay them to learn? If I wanted someone to come to me, then I'd pay them to work my dog, the rest of the time, I'm paying for the field and use of equipment and help training.We generally try to bring stuff to eat/drink for everybody not justthe decoys. Our club rule...dog pisses or shits on the field, you owe a case of RedBull.


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## Ryan Cole

Greg Naranjo said:


> Discounted membership dues, have extra sleeve covers available, send them to a seminar every once in a while, offer a beer or two after training and most importantly, have someone competent available to work his dog too.


Is this common? I really like the idea of an 'internship'-like situation where one could learn the Helper skills, but would the offer to also train that person's dog in return still apply for a newbie? Or would that be just too much 'compensation' for a newbie and only be offered to an experienced decoy?

Is this barter situation what you basically get when you join a club and pay the dues?


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## Alex Corral

Greg Naranjo said:


> IMO, it really doesn't even out. I your case, the equipment belongs to the club. Even if your club would give the equipment to the helpers, I for one would not accept it (except for the occassional sleeve cover) as I would not like feeling indebted to anyone.
> 
> Feeling appreciated goes a long way and discounted membership fees and a genuine "thank you" (with a beer here and there) would suffice for me. You have to keep in mind that helpers risk injury, their bodies get abused and eventually break down ie..torn miniscus & loose ribs that shouldn't be, are just to name a few. Appreciate the fact that despite the risk, they still work dogs for the love of the sport. Without a good one, you will not get far in this sport period.
> 
> And as far as paying a helper for their services would depend on who is doing the helper work. Just because the dude may have done trial work at a national or world event does not necessarily qualify him as a good training helper. Before I would pay anyone to suit up for my dog, 1) they better follow my training plan or 2) if I don't know what the hell I'm doing, they better be competing at a national level with their own dogs.
> 
> .


Well said Greg. Our club (including myself) is very grateful to whom works their dog. We always tell each other thanks. I do it to help the club and don't think club helpers should be paid. Discounted membership, well that's up to the club and helper. I wouldn't take a discount either for the same reason as Greg. Helpers are also under a bit more pressure to show up, because they have people counting on them to be there. It's tough sometimes. 

I got bit on my right hand last summer. My hand was swollen for about 3 days and it was a real pain in the ass for work. I had to pay to go see the doc, tetanus shot, and anti-biotics. The club never really knew about it until much later. If helper work was so easy, more people would be doing it.


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## Meghan Rabon

I know of a helper who charges $15 per session. So at the end of the day you are at least $30-45 in the hole for one dog. That's not even counting club dues. Living in NJ is great  I may live in a cardboard box but at least my dogs are trained!


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## jay lyda

I also do not agree with bringing money into the pic. When a member pays their dues then they are good for the whole year and are free to have their dog worked as often as they can make it out to club training. A members contribution is the dues which help buy equipment and what ever else the club needs. As a decoy it is my contribution to be at training every week to work and help train the members dogs. Thats the part that I agreed to and in return I do not have to pay club dues. On the back side of that I do not have the option to miss training as a club member can. But I also did not get involved and help build a club to make money, it is what I like to do and I personally will never ask a club member to pay me for working their dog. I know what my job is for the club and thats not part of it.


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## Matt Hammond

I think it comes down to what is best for you. I do not agree with paying some one to work my dog or paying me to work your dog. But if you don't have a better path then you do what you have to. The good thing about our club is we have 4 decoys that could work in any club/org in the country. The training level is consistant. We don't ask to be paid, just for some one to work my dog when I am done with yours. I feel that you do decoy work.Helper work, because you love it, once money comes into play you change as a decoy. 

We had a trial this weekend and a Mr. Kirchner was a vendor. When the trial was over he came on the field and helped Mike Santana with his dog. He did not ask for anything, he did not expect anything. He did it because he loves to train. Mr. Kirchner is a legend in the dog world, and didn't ask for a thing. Why would I pay someone that has half the knowledge he does to work my dog. He is a perfect example of what you should stive to be. Share the knowledge you have, don't charge for it.


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## Courtney Guthrie

That is awesome Matt. 

I can say that our club does free dues for the decoys. That is about the only "PERK" that we get. I'd say that is worth it over and over. 

I wouldn't ever want to be paid for decoying, for one, I'm young and still learning and 2....it just wouldn't be right. 

Courtney


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## Al Curbow

I'd have no problem paying for someones time that works my dog


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## Jerry Lyda

Al we do it for free. Now when ya coming??


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## Howard Gaines III

It should be a universal rule; all club members, regardless of bite work involvement, shall release to the TD or Helper/Decoy, one COLD case of fine quality lager beer. Upon injury, and ever so slight, the above named person would require 3 cases for handler misconduct!:razz:


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## Alyssa Myracle

I like the way you think, Howard.

Then again, our Helper Injury rate might increase exponentially if we were to do that.


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## Gillian Schuler

I don't - I like helpers that are too clever to get hurt


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## Alyssa Myracle

Callin' me dumb now? :-\"


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## Gillian Schuler

You're calling the shots:lol: 
It's a difficult situation. The breeder of our dogs came over from Germany to a club in Switzerland of which I wasn't a member, so I paid up. He was a terrific helper and I don't regret it but - it draws the so-called "stars" and lowers the interesting element, the commentary on each dog's bite phase as a rule due to time.

I like the idea of a Club, everyone mucks in so no-one pays, except for visitors. At our club I was treasurer, Toni was Secretary and now he's making their website. 

We run the scoring office at trials and have always helped in some way or other in clubs. I would be a totally "club" person as I used to be but work prevails and I find sometimes I'm having to beg for "help".


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## Alyssa Myracle

I'm just clumsy, and end up chosing helper injury over dog injury. :-({|= 
If I were a better helper, it probably wouldn't come to that, though.


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## Mike Scheiber

Al Curbow said:


> I'd have no problem paying for someones time that works my dog


Nether do I however our club helpers do not get payed reduced membership fee and a thanks.
I have and do on occasion go for some specialized training/lesson but when doing so like to have my other helper present or TD to help me dove tail the sessions into club training.


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## Howard Gaines III

I think sometimes it's easier for the decoy to adjust than the dog. If the decoy has lead feet and moves like a rock, then all money is off the table! Dogs can be ruined when the decoy falls on them, step on their feet or does those wonderful flying catches...oooooh impressive <SNAP> [-X


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## Al Lewis

The idea of being paid to be a helper is absurd; unless you are a professional trainer doing seminars and that is how you earn a living. Helpers that I respect do it for the love of the dogs. There is a lot of hard work in being a helper, but there is also reward, after all not everyone can be a helper and even fewer can be really good at it. So being a good helper is often a reward in and of itself. 

In my mind, the helper is your training partner and together you plan for the training of the handler/dog team. So, the helper should be respected for his ability, knowledge and selflessness in sharing them, sometimes at his personal expense (when he gets caught just right by a dog, the scars on the arms and legs, the cheap groin and/or belly bites, etc...). So paying money is more of an insult to the good helper, but a show of respect like having equipment and/or foregoing club dues are ways to say thanks, but let's not forget, the helper is there longer and working harder than anyone else, so a beer and a slap on the back accompanied with a sincere thanks makes all the difference.


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## Howard Gaines III

Good point Al and what about the pain...?
Catch enough dogs and the old body will start to tell on you. I love the sport and the catching, even though there are times I should have my head checked for "damage." Money comes and goes, beer goes faster, but the thank you and equipment are nice touches. How many club members really stop to think about how much physical effort goes into being a good club decoy/helper? Having some do it as we do, this gets folks talking..."Man how do you guys do it non-stop?" Try the fear of failure! \\/


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## Michael Santana

How about this...
The handler goes home and thats it, its over. The Decoy/Helper goes home, and he feels training for days! :lol:


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## mark chase

at our club the helpers are not payed. the equipment is bought by the club.
our helpers pay dues. there are a number of helpers in the club. however I do not feel that we have to be there or have to work the dog. I pay just like everyone else. I work mostly the other helpers dogs. I have two bad rotor cuffs and 20 years of dogs hanging off them. where will the club or members be when I have to have them worked on??? when I had a cut tendon I know where they were. I do not work or offer any advice unless they ask for it. if they do not want to know then they can keep on keeping on. I do not want to force how I like to train on them. we have some different styles of helperwork in the club and just have to keep the dogs on the program that they are on.

some of the members work with the helpers at different places during the week and weekend and pay for that. some meet the helper at the field and pay. I do not care what they do as long as they stick with a program.
flipping from one to another i a waste of my time and I do not want to abuse myself just for fun. not 19 anymore.

mark chase


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## Greg Leavitt

Howard Gaines III said:


> It should be a universal rule; all club members, regardless of bite work involvement, shall release to the TD or Helper/Decoy, one COLD case of fine quality lager beer. Upon injury, and ever so slight, the above named person would require 3 cases for handler misconduct!:razz:


If I was doing this I would have to be paid cash because I would lose my job from being to hung over to work. lol


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