# Down goes Frazier, Down goes Frazier



## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

The world of boxing lost a good man last night.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/s...yweight-champ-dies-at-67.html?_r=1&ref=sports

RIP Smokin Joe


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

He was a good one. The "Thrilla in Manila" was as good a boxing match as I've ever seen. Smokin' Joe, we'll miss you. When I read the title of this thread, I could hear Cosell saying exactly that.

DFrost


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I remember my Dad going to listen to his fights in the car in the garage - this way we were free to carry on life as usual!!


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

When I worked in NY a couple years ago we lived in Easton, PA and Larry Holmes had a bar right down the road that we could walk to and I met Joe there probably 3 or 4 times. Here's a pic of me and Larry.


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Very sad, one of the greatest


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

The world has lost of an icon of courage. My sympathies go out to his family & friends.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

smokin' joe----rip, man. the world lost good 'un when it lost you. rip....


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Best left hook ever...Long live Smokin Joe.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vUuXvAHlLQ&feature=related

There are zero heavyweights fighting like this.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Great fighter! Saw all his big fights on the big screen at the St. Louis Arena. Our version of Pay for view back in the day.
The Ali vs Fraizer fights still haven't been matched in the heavy weight div. 
My dream fight was always Frazier vs Tyson. Very similar styles and the best left hooks on the planet.
Neither one knew how to back up.
It was a sad day when Foreman handled him so easy.


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## Jhun Brioso (Dec 28, 2009)

RIP smokin' Joe... Heard from my dad that " THRILLA IN MANILA " was one of the best!


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## Chad Sloan (Jun 2, 2010)

I haven't ever seen it live. Only ever the reruns on ESPN Classic. Some boxers just seem to have an unorthodox style that's hard to match.


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

Bob,
I would have loved to have seen Tyson take on Smoking Joe, George Foreman, Ken Norton and the greatest......... Ali

Terry


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Smokin' Joe wasn't all that unortodox. He was an "in your face" fighter. You never had to look for him. He told Ali he'd fight him in a phone booth. Because of his style he took a lot of blows, even in the fights he won. His left hook was among the best ever.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

His mantra was "No shortcuts". "You've gotta breathe on him" meaning stay on top, take two to land one. 

Terry, Foreman's size and style would give him the edge (IMO) over Tyson. Tyson and Fraizer were almost carbon copies and Foreman's size, power and arms out streached defense lifted Fraizer off the mat with an uppercut in the second round to win. 
Foreman of that era was super bad. Nothing like the lovable old gent seen in commercials. Ali didn't mentally beat him he just wore him out with the "rope a dope".
Norton's biggest claim to fame was beating Ali and breaking Ali's jaw in the fight. He had a very unorthodox syle. Foot in the bucket advance and a jab that came from his hip. Ali had problems with it. 
On of the greats of that era that many avoided was Earnie Shavers. He would have been a good match for any of them. Fact is he destroyed Norton in the first round. Norton didn't like fighting heavy handed fighters. Ali said Shavers had the hardest punch of any of the heavy weights.
Tyson would have destroyed Norton early. 
Tyson vs Ali, I'd probably give to Ali simply because Ali would be in Tyson's head. Similar to the Sonny Liston fight.Tyson's demise was because he was a head case. Shame cause he could have gone on for a very long time.
Ali's best fights were with opponents that didn't try to avoid him. He fought to the level of his opponents and lesser fights could be boring. Similar to Tyson's opponents that were usually crapping their pants during the intro. :grin:


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

Bob,
I agree with you. Tson and Foreman would have been fun to watch. Tyson and Ali would have been a study in psychology. Everyone thought Ali did a great job of getting in Smokin Joes head. Ali would have haunted Tyson before during and after the fight. Ali would have Tyson too angry to fight like he should.
Terry


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I think Ali got into Foreman's head as well. The rope-a-dope was classic. Wouldn't have worked on Smokin' Joe, because he is going to be on your chest anyway. George wasn't prepared for it. 

DFrost


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> His mantra was "No shortcuts". "You've gotta breathe on him" meaning stay on top, take two to land one.
> 
> Terry, Foreman's size and style would give him the edge (IMO) over Tyson. Tyson and Fraizer were almost carbon copies and Foreman's size, power and arms out streached defense lifted Fraizer off the mat with an uppercut in the second round to win.
> Foreman of that era was super bad. Nothing like the lovable old gent seen in commercials. Ali didn't mentally beat him he just wore him out with the "rope a dope".
> ...


Ernie Shavers was an Ohio boy and was considered by MANY boxers and boxing experts to have the hardest punch. He was very good, but it just goes to show that more is needed besides a real hard punch. Frazier was relentless...never changed his style...never needed to. He would always take 2 punches to land one of his own.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> I think Ali got into Foreman's head as well. The rope-a-dope was classic. Wouldn't have worked on Smokin' Joe, because he is going to be on your chest anyway. George wasn't prepared for it.
> 
> DFrost



Towards the end of the fight when George could hardly raise his arms no doubt he had a WTF moment! Before the fight, not so much. 
I agree on Ali NOT getting in Joe's head. He iritated and disrespected Joe to the point of true hatred but Joe only new one way to fight and I'm not sure if thinking factored into it. :lol: to quote a sports writer in the paper today.
"Ali had more charisma, Frazier had more fire in his belly."
Classic case of getting in the head of the opponent was Clay (at the time) vs Liston. Liston was totally baffled, buffaloed and intimidated in his fights with Ali.
Liston, IMHO, didn't deserve to be the champ. He beat Floyd Patterson (glass jaw) who beat Igmar Johansen (WHO?) :lol: 
No one had ever done anything like that much less a young punk that hadn't "made it" yet. Ali followed him all over. Even went into Liston's camp to harass him.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

you know your a good fighter when the city if brotherly adopts you . Rip smokin joe. shocked the world and Ali when he put him down in the first fight.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Timothy Saunders said:


> you know your a good fighter when the city if brotherly adopts you . Rip smokin joe. shocked the world and Ali when he put him down in the first fight.


Tim, the problem with that is "the city of brotherly love" didn't do a lot for Frazier but then put up a statue of a fictional bum (Rocky). I always looked at that as a total insult to the man.


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## john chester (Apr 20, 2009)

http://youtu.be/6_PAHbqq-o4


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

john chester said:


> http://youtu.be/6_PAHbqq-o4


What does that weird video have to do with Frazier?


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## Chad Sloan (Jun 2, 2010)

Was quite the weird. Ask Jon if you must know.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

It seems like Joe was much too overshadowed by Ali. Granted, Ali was renowned as pretty much the greatest boxer of all time (with some honorable mentions from some of the other greats). Still, I really liked Joe Frazier's style. I never cared for Ali's trash talk, or his rope-a-dope crap. I'd love to have seen a Foreman-Ali rematch. That said, Ali was obviously great and earned that descriptor for good reason.

But at the heart of it, I prefer fighters like Frazier, Hagler (over Sugar Ray Leonard), Foreman (he was mean, but just amazing to watch), or Pacquiao. It is not that I do not admire the skill of Ali or Leonard, but I like boxers with spirit, preferably the ones who do not trash talk but put their heads down, get in there, do their business, and let their actions inside the ring do the talking. I do not get into the head games of Ali, and while Leonard was flat out great it never sat well with me how the Hagler fight went down. I just prefer a fighter to win by beating the opponent, not by the judges score card, if that makes any sense. That seems to be what Frazier's fighting style entailed.

I guess that's why it's hard to believe he's gone. He seemed the epitome of toughness and inner fire. Cancer is a terrible thing. What is sad is that Frazier was one who was apparently taken advantage of and never able to capitalize on the fame he probably deserved. Perhaps not nearly as tragic as Joe Louis, but still, it is a hard pill to swallow on some level. In the ring though, he just seemed like a force of nature. He seemed not to be about finesse, or racking up hits, but just destroying his opponents. There is something to be said about that approach, and I always found something special about people who fought like that.

-Cheers


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## Chad Sloan (Jun 2, 2010)

Too true. I enjoy watching him fight. He's someone I would have liked to have met. Really hard for me to say I say I'm sad he's gone when I never saw him around in the first place. The really great ones live in their own little insular world with all the other the stars.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David said;
"But at the heart of it, I prefer fighters like Frazier, Hagler (over Sugar Ray Leonard), Foreman (he was mean, but just amazing to watch), or Pacquiao."

I'll add Roberto Duran to that list! 
Duran was once asked, after putting a fighter in the hospital if he felt bad about it. 
His answer was "Yes I feel very bad about him being in the hospital. I was trying to kill him".
Jerry Quarry, as an announcer, once said about Duran;
"I've got 100 lbs on that guy but I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley."
I've become to wrapped up in MMA pay for view to be able to afford watching the boxers on the same but I'd love to see more of Pacquiao.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Pacquiao meets Marquez for the third time later this month. The first two were punishing fights. I would expect nothing less for the third. 

DFrost


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## Johannes Gilbertson (Jul 4, 2009)

*I was fortunate enough to have met him when I was a young boy in 1978. My father operated on his manager and we all went out to dinner at Pier 4 in Boston. He was a true gentleman and treated everyone with kindness and respect. Handshakes, autographs and photographs with the champ gave me memories for a lifetime. Joe was truly a LEGEND and one of the greatest when boxing was still worth watching (before Don King ruined it). *


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Pacquiao meets Marquez for the third time later this month. The first two were punishing fights. I would expect nothing less for the third.
> 
> DFrost



Third fight! I'm assuming both have a win?


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## Chad Sloan (Jun 2, 2010)

Wouldn't be much of rubber match if one of them was undefeated.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> David said;
> "But at the heart of it, I prefer fighters like Frazier, Hagler (over Sugar Ray Leonard), Foreman (he was mean, but just amazing to watch), or Pacquiao."
> 
> I'll add Roberto Duran to that list!
> ...


Hey Bob. I'll have to check out some of his fights. I've gotten more into MMA as well. That said, there is something epic about a good boxing match. I'm torn, because I hate the long-term implications of those long, epic battles for the fighters (much like the long-term impact of NFL careers on players like Unitas, for that matter). But man, they are something else. So yes, I'll look up Duran's fights, and a very sincere thanks for the heads-up!



Chad Sloan said:


> Too true. I enjoy watching him fight. He's someone I would have liked to have met. Really hard for me to say I say I'm sad he's gone when I never saw him around in the first place. The really great ones live in their own little insular world with all the other the stars.





David Frost said:


> Pacquiao meets Marquez for the third time later this month. The first two were punishing fights. I would expect nothing less for the third.


I may have to check that out. I'm a bit late for the Pacquiao band wagon, but what I've seen I really, really like. I'm still hoping for Mayweather vs. Pac-Man to pan out. I miss a nice rivalry, and we've been waiting for that fight for SOOOOOOOOOOOO long. MMA's great, and I really love Boxing too, but as of not there contemporary Ali vs. Frasier rivalries or even Leonard vs. Hearns, Ward vs. Gotti(!!!), Tyson vs. Holyfield, or similar truly great fights to look forward to.



Johannes Gilbertson said:


> *I was fortunate enough to have met him when I was a young boy in 1978. My father operated on his manager and we all went out to dinner at Pier 4 in Boston. He was a true gentleman and treated everyone with kindness and respect. Handshakes, autographs and photographs with the champ gave me memories for a lifetime. Joe was truly a LEGEND and one of the greatest when boxing was still worth watching (before Don King ruined it). *


Great story. Thanks for that! That is very cool. I loved watching Frasier fight, and how he presented himself. Thank you for sharing. Great memories, that is truly priceless and irreplaceable.

-Cheers


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

David Ruby said:


> Ward vs. Gotti(!!!)
> 
> -Cheers


!!! Yeah, no kidding. !!!


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## Chad Sloan (Jun 2, 2010)

Mayhap it'll be worth watching.


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