# Environment issues later



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Anybody ever have a dog that had issues they never had showed up later in life. For example a dog that had no issues with slippery floors ever all of a sudden have issues with them at two years old. Or never had issues with gun fire just start to have issues with it one day? Maybe you guys, especially you LE guys that test and train a lot of dogs might have seen something like this. If so does it always have to bough on by something the dog experienced? Not that it’s a great example but my Greyhound never had issues with thunder ever until last year. Now at six years old I got a bit of basket case dog when it thunders outside. Never noticed any issues when it thundered outside at all till about a year ago.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Anybody ever have a dog that had issues they never had showed up later in life. For example a dog that had no issues with slippery floors ever all of a sudden have issues with them at two years old. Or never had issues with gun fire just start to have issues with it one day? Maybe you guys, especially you LE guys that test and train a lot of dogs might have seen something like this. If so does it always have to bough on by something the dog experienced? Not that it’s a great example but my Greyhound never had issues with thunder ever until last year. Now at six years old I got a bit of basket case dog when it thunders outside. Never noticed any issues when it thundered outside at all till about a year ago.


 
One of my dogs started to "notice" thunderstorms after he was six and had a back injury that left him temporarily paralyzed. He always worked and didn't try to hide or anything but you could tell he was aware of them in a way he wasn't before. Also know of a dog about Age 2 became storm sensitive. I do think with age [6-8] dogs become more sensitive to things than what they were when they were younger. Not sensitive enough that you would call them nervy just now they are aware of certain things that they were oblivious to before.

Terrasita


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I think my question is going to be covered in Maggie’s thread. Apparently hers is better than mine


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Chris I posted mine there by accident


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

That’s all right man you didn’t hurt my feeling to bad. :razz:
She does have a better thread, she has more time to sit around, drink and make up questions than most of us.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> That’s all right man you didn’t hurt my feeling to bad. :razz:
> She does have a better thread, she has more time to sit around, drink and make up questions than most of us.


:lol::lol:


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Seems to me that a fear of thunder, fireworks, bombs and so on can develop with age.

I have seen working dogs that were not afraid of bombing at work when young, one year suddenly be afraid of it. Same with thunder. 

Lots of pet dogs in our ski town freak with the bombing, and it seems to always worsen with age.

Never heard of the slippery floor thing just cropping up.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Anyone else ever have any other issues other than noise pop up? 
Thanks Jen, I feel much better that you responded after Will sold me out for Maggie. Even though you really had nothing good to say it was a nice jester. I don’t know what you read today but I had a very rough day on here today. im now scared to walk over bridges with running water under them, Eh


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

My wife's eight year old Mal was enviormentally sound. a couple of weeks ago we were outside and lightning struck pretty close. Dog freaked and took off. It ended up being a pretty bad storm and we found him about half a mile down the road. Now he is a basket case during storms...have to crate him.

The dog is a pain in the ass. When ever I work a late shift and come home in the wee hours he will attack me as I walk into the bedroom. I have counseled him hundreds of times but have given up...I switched his name to Kato. I will not miss him when he is gone.

oh and I have never taken a training bite from him only real ones


I hope I can make your day a little easier


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ha, I think I read this before. 
You know I think you used a small w and f for your first name on the left side here. I been working on my grammarnshit


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Yeah I like to remind myself to be humble with the small letters


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

I've got the same situation, my 11yr old who always had unshakeable nerves throughout his life now hackles up at thunder and gunfire, but he doesnt retreat or tuck tail, he reacts with defensive aggression still it's clearly unsettling to him at this advanced age.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I keep wondering how the nervous system changes as they age--especially after Age 8.


T


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I always wonder if older dogs that suddenly are more unsettled by thunder etc are just perceiving them differently due to decreases in hearing. I am totally deaf in one ear but in the process of losing my hearing some sounds were very distorted.


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## Chuck Zang (May 12, 2010)

We had a GSD in our unit that was very sound. One time while searching an attic he stepped on the drywall and fell partway through. The handler saved him from a complete fall but following that, for some reason he was a litlle shy about shiny floors. I guess he though he would fall through them or something?? Anyway. he wouldn't lockup, he was just cautious.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

> Seems to me that a fear of thunder, fireworks, bombs and so on can develop with age.
> 
> I have seen working dogs that were not afraid of bombing at work when young, one year suddenly be afraid of it. Same with thunder.
> 
> ...


I've seen Soldiers hitting the floors because of fireworks, after they came back from war. 
Why should a dog be any different? 
Dogs can suffer from traumas just like people can. 
Dogs can even suffer from PTSD. 

They are not machines, they are living, breathing, bleeding beings.
We should start recognizing that dogs are a little more complex than a lot of people think they are and that any living, breething being, whether it be a horse, cat or dog, can suffer from traumas just like people.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Sandra King said:


> I've seen Soldiers hitting the floors because of fireworks, after they came back from war.
> Why should a dog be any different?
> Dogs can suffer from traumas just like people can.
> Dogs can even suffer from PTSD.
> ...


just like Dogs/Soldiers some are harder than others mentally, physically, and a wide range of other things to include nerve. Some are trained better than others and can react to situations better than others, some with fear, some with aggression, some nuetral and others with wrecklass abandom. There are alot of things that we don't all know...but so often than not PTSD is the excuse! SAD!

Not all dogs/Soldiers deal with trauma the same way, and sometimes it can't even be seen visually or recognizable


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Hearing and vision changes can effect their reaction to their environment . My 11 year old K9 had that issue just before he retired . Originally I thought it was a mental thing . I then started to notice through training scenerios that it was his eyesight(night vision) . Dog was stalling when I would send him on a straight attack (not a search) on decoys standing still in dark areas . Never was an issue in the 8 years he worked the street . I then noticed if the decoy made noise or I lit the guy up he would go no problem even if I turned the light off again . He simply didn't see the guy when I gave the straight attack command and was confused . I originally took it as a fear of the dark but he would and still does search dark areas good because he's relying more on his nose then eyesight . 

A check up confirmed it . I'm starting to see his vision during the day get worse too very quickly . He's now paying alot more attention to noises during walks and is having difficulty locating the source of the noise even if it is easily seen by others . If you saw his behavior while we were on a walk you would think he was a fearful dog . He's looking around at every little noise and crowding me or slowing down while heeling . But in reality his just trying to figure things out around him and relying on me to walk him because he can't see . Initially all these behaviors looked really similar to dogs that have environmental issues for phychological issues .


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

My dog completely ignored guns, fireworks, thunderstorms, whatever until we were practicing the PSA carjacking with a blank gun that sounded like a darn cannon some months back. He's much more reactive now. Not shying away, but will be more prone to notice it like "oooh, where's the action?" or defensive barking if we're at home. Both my elderly dogs (12 year old Rottie and 14 year old husky/Rottie mix I put down about two months ago) reacted much worse to thunder as they aged.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jim Nash said:


> Hearing and vision changes can effect their reaction to their environment . My 11 year old K9 had that issue just before he retired . Originally I thought it was a mental thing . I then started to notice through training scenerios that it was his eyesight(night vision) . Dog was stalling when I would send him on a straight attack (not a search) on decoys standing still in dark areas . Never was an issue in the 8 years he worked the street . I then noticed if the decoy made noise or I lit the guy up he would go no problem even if I turned the light off again . He simply didn't see the guy when I gave the straight attack command and was confused . I originally took it as a fear of the dark but he would and still does search dark areas good because he's relying more on his nose then eyesight .
> 
> A check up confirmed it . I'm starting to see his vision during the day get worse too very quickly . He's now paying alot more attention to noises during walks and is having difficulty locating the source of the noise even if it is easily seen by others . If you saw his behavior while we were on a walk you would think he was a fearful dog . He's looking around at every little noise and crowding me or slowing down while heeling . But in reality his just trying to figure things out around him and relying on me to walk him because he can't see . Initially all these behaviors looked really similar to dogs that have environmental issues for phychological issues .


Jim, does he have progressive retinal atrophy (PRA)? My Rottweiler has this and is likewise losing much of her night vision (she sometimes seems to stumble on night walks occasionally). Her ophthalmologist said there is not much to be done, but you can try a lutein/anti-oxidant supplement and she recommended Ocu-glo:

http://www.ocuglo.com/info4myvet/?_...bceb0dfea6a6&gclid=CNTT-sexm6oCFdBrKgodtQn7xA


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Jim, does he have progressive retinal atrophy (PRA)? My Rottweiler has this and is likewise losing much of her night vision (she sometimes seems to stumble on night walks occasionally). Her ophthalmologist said there is not much to be done, but you can try a lutein/anti-oxidant supplement and she recommended Ocu-glo:
> 
> http://www.ocuglo.com/info4myvet/?_...bceb0dfea6a6&gclid=CNTT-sexm6oCFdBrKgodtQn7xA


You know how much I love big words , I started to shut down once they started flowing . I don't think it was that . Some kind of scorosis that is pretty common with older dogs . It's amazing how fast it is progressing . He still gets around pretty good but I think he can only see sillouettes up close and nothing over about 15-20' and is relying more on his hearing . He's always had slightly cloudy eyes but they appear a little worse even though cloudy eyes aren't symptoms of this scorosis .


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Nuclear or lenticular sclerosis?  My Rottie has that as well, but her retina is slowly detaching. :-( You may still try the anti-oxidant supplement. Probably wouldn't hurt at this rate.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Nuclear or lenticular sclerosis?  My Rottie has that as well, but her retina is slowly detaching. :-( You may still try the anti-oxidant supplement. Probably wouldn't hurt at this rate.


I'll give it a try thanks .


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Jody Butler said:


> just like Dogs/Soldiers some are harder than others mentally, physically, and a wide range of other things to include nerve. Some are trained better than others and can react to situations better than others, some with fear, some with aggression, some nuetral and others with wrecklass abandom. There are alot of things that we don't all know...but so often than not PTSD is the excuse! SAD!
> 
> Not all dogs/Soldiers deal with trauma the same way, and sometimes it can't even be seen visually or recognizable


I did not excuse anything with PTSD. I said that they can suffer from PTSD just like human beeings. That is a big difference. I've seen people suffer from Trauma, dogs suffer from Traumas due to abusive training and handling. If dogs can suffer from traumas due to abusive handling, if people get nightmares from dropping bombs and being shot at, why shouldn't dogs have issues with that either?


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Sandra King said:


> I did not excuse anything with PTSD. I said that they can suffer from PTSD just like human beeings. That is a big difference. I've seen people suffer from Trauma, dogs suffer from Traumas due to abusive training and handling. If dogs can suffer from traumas due to abusive handling, if people get nightmares from dropping bombs and being shot at, why shouldn't dogs have issues with that either?


wasn't directed just at you, but in general I just see PTSD as an excuse, I agree in certain instances and some can clear up and others never work again...


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Jody Butler said:


> wasn't directed just at you, but in general I just see PTSD as an excuse, I agree in certain instances and some can clear up and others never work again...


Ah, okay. Yes, I agree with you. I've seen it used as an excuse as well and just like with the good and bad cops, with good and bad breeders, it makes it hard for those that really have it. I guess, with dogs it's a little different than people. However, despite the language barrier, dogs can still talk to us and it's important that we listen to them, because sometimes, they have an aweful lot to say.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I agree with Sanra for once....dogs are as complex as we are, but, I have seen dogs get increasingly wary of things with age when they have never been traumatized. I have to go with Jim. Eyesight to a dog is critical for survival. Loss of any of it is going to make them wary. I have had dogs that, because, of the close range shooting, were all but deaf and that didn't bother them.

I have also had dogs that developed somewhat a dislike for slick floors as they got bigger but they were never bothered when young. BlackJack was one, when he finished growing he was almost 30" tall. He still walked on them but more cautiously. Kind of like us walking on ice. Once you take a bad fall, we walk with a lot more caution. It is natural.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Sandra King said:


> Ah, okay. Yes, I agree with you. I've seen it used as an excuse as well and just like with the good and bad cops, with good and bad breeders, it makes it hard for those that really have it. I guess, with dogs it's a little different than people. However, despite the language barrier, dogs can still talk to us and it's important that we listen to them, because sometimes, they have an aweful lot to say.


Unfortunately dogs can't speak so wahat they are "sayin" is left to interpretation and many times people project things on to their dogs based on their own issues .


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Jim Nash said:


> Unfortunately dogs can't speak so wahat they are "sayin" is left to interpretation and many times people project things on to their dogs based on their own issues .


Agreed. If you don't know how to read a dog, it doesn't matter what he's telling you via body language and reactions. It's really important that the person, evaluating the dog knows what to look for.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My older (7 1/2yrs) GSD has always been solid as a rock with everything. The past 5-6 months he's become more "aware" of thunder storms. Not exactly fearful but he paces more now. 
Gunfire still has no effect on him.


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

My 6 year old bitch has been rock solid with all environmental stuff... and gun shots and fire works storms... but after our last trial she now has gunshot issues and I noticed for the first time on July 4th that she was sensitive to the fireworks... This is a good post and good to know I am not alone in this.
Also I have heard that atmospheric pressure during storms can cause dogs to act differently than normal ...couple that with the thunder and ... and that can be an issue... Maybe dogs become more sensitive to atmospheric pressure. as they age.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Another thing to be aware of is there may be a difference beween a dog at work and one "relaxing" at home . My first PSD had a problem with fireworks at home . He once jumped through a screen door and hid in our basement after hearing a few bottle rockets . But at work fireworks didn't mattter at all . I've done searches with fireworks going off all around . Large and small and he never paid attention . Night and day from home to work .


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Eric Shearer said:


> My 6 year old bitch has been rock solid with all environmental stuff... and gun shots and fire works storms... but after our last trial she now has gunshot issues and I noticed for the first time on July 4th that she was sensitive to the fireworks... This is a good post and good to know I am not alone in this.
> Also I have heard that atmospheric pressure during storms can cause dogs to act differently than normal ...couple that with the thunder and ... and that can be an issue... Maybe dogs become more sensitive to atmospheric pressure. as they age.


Wouldn't surprise me if that was one of the causes. Have you ever felt a Thunderstorm coming? Especially people that had broken bones can feel it.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Sandra King said:


> Wouldn't surprise me if that was one of the causes. Have you ever felt a Thunderstorm coming? Especially people that had broken bones can feel it.


I am not so sure about that theory. There are atmospheric pressure changes that do not cause thunderstorms, and dogs don't freak out.

Likewise when we are avalanche bombing in town, it is not always the same atmospheric conditions, but the dogs that don't like that stuff react the same way regardless if it is a blue bird day or snowing 2 cm's per hour.

The concussive, echoing, cracking sounds themselves seem a more likely culprit to me than pressure changes.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I am not so sure about that theory. There are atmospheric pressure changes that do not cause thunderstorms, and dogs don't freak out.
> 
> Likewise when we are avalanche bombing in town, it is not always the same atmospheric conditions, but the dogs that don't like that stuff react the same way regardless if it is a blue bird day or snowing 2 cm's per hour.
> 
> The concussive, echoing, cracking sounds themselves seem a more likely culprit to me than pressure changes.


Ah, okay. Now I understand what you are talking about. Especially in the mountains it's a bit different than where we are at because of the pressure, right? And every dog reacts to the pressure differently regardless the weather condition. And even on good days, the pressure can be tough on you, right?


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Sandra King said:


> Ah, okay. Now I understand what you are talking about. Especially in the mountains it's a bit different than where we are at because of the pressure, right? And every dog reacts to the pressure differently regardless the weather condition. And even on good days, the pressure can be tough on you, right?


Now I have no idea what you are talking about LOL! I was trying to say that I do not believe that pressure changes cause environmental issues with the dogs. I think it is the noise...type of noise more generally.

If we think about conditioning, yes if a pressure change always proceeds a loud noise the dog hates, the dog could become sensitive to the pressure change I suppose. Then I would expect a dog to freak out at times when the barometer dropped even if there was no thunder though, but I just don't see that.

That said, if a pressure change does not always precede the loud noise, such as in the case of avalanche bombing in my valley, and the dogs are still scared of it, I am trying to suggest that it is not pressure changes that make a dog wary, but just the loud concussive noise itself.

Of course I am no scientist. These are only my musings.


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

Anyone have these issues with older puppies or young dogs? I have an 11 mo. old male that has always been super stable showing some weird caution (I wouldn't even call it fear yet) - just random stuff. Surboards, plastic duck decoy sitting in the yard. Up until now he wouldn't have noticed if an M80 went off next to him (he still wouldn't - but that DUCK just looked creepy!). Hoping he just sorts out his wiring as he matures. 

I also had the thing of an older dog (nine) getting freaked by fireworks, she had to have doggie valium this year. Must be good stuff, after she ate that she looked totally stoned and was just laying there with a big glassy-eyed smile.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

My Dutchie is fine with rain, thunder and gunfire if he's in the car or on the field. At home in his cage if there is any thunder or fire works he spins around so fast I half expect to find a puddle of butter in the bottom or the cage one of these days.
The cage is on wheels so I usually put him in the mud room which helps a little


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

An old dog training buddy told me once that when a thunderstorm rolls through and lightening strikes near that a dog that is outside can feel the static charge through its pads as it travels across the wet ground. The dog from then on associates any thunder or cracking sound with that 'shock'. Just sayin'.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Animals born and raised outside don't seem to have a problem with thunder and lightning. It is just part of life that has been with them since they were born.


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