# Attention food allergic dogs



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Well, actually I meant food allergy dogs' _owners_. But I didn't know if that would fit in the header.

If you are feeding any of the prescription allergy diets, Buffalo, deer, fish, sweet potato, etc. Costco has a new Salmon/Sweet Potato line of food called "Natural Domain" it has all the high Costco quality with berries and yogurt and all that natural stuff to take care of common allergies and the price, are you sitting down? 

35 pound bag is $28.59 That is about a 35-40% saving over any of the prescription diets I have bought at Vets or pet stores. 

Check it out "Natural Domain" in the sky blue bags, could save you a buck and keep your dog real happy


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## Carlos Machado (Dec 28, 2008)

That sounds good I'll have to see if I could find it. I think it's time to switch foods I use to feed costco food years ago I've been buying expensive food but still get some runs it's time to lower the protein.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

i just read into this more. it appears to be an almost exact clone of Taste of the Wilds Salmon based food. 

It is made by Diamond foods.

*Ingredients*

Salmon meal, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, canola oil, potato protein, potato fiber, natural flavor, flaxseed, ocean fish meal, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.



*CALORIE CONTENT*

3,590 kcals/kg (336 kcals/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy


*Guaranteed Analysis*

Crude Protein 24.0% minimum Crude Fat 14.0% minimum Crude Fiber 3.0% maximum Moisture 10.0% maximum Zinc 150 mg/kg
minimum Selenium 0.4 mg/kg
minimum Vitamin E 150 IU/kg minimum Omega-6 Fatty Acids* 2.4% minimum Omega-3 Fatty Acids* 0.3% minimum


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

an its like 20 bucks a bag cheaper than TOTW. I have never fed any Diamond made foods, because of that recall mess they had going on, but they appear to have corrected all of that at the affected plant. one of the sales reps for Diamond stopped in to work not long back and told me all about thier improved QC and toxin screening on all ingredients, but being a sales rep it was his job to sell. We're not open for retail yet so i didnt pay it any mind but this is something i hope i can get out my way.

i read on some of the "pet" forums that it was limited in its availbilty to Western and Central Sates but will check at costco today as i nede to get stuff for work there anyway.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

I was just at Costco here in CT the other day and didn't see this new food in their dog food section. Must be limited availability.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I'll have to check and see if the CostCo's in this area carry it. I purchase a lot of my dog food there right now anyway so it will be easy to see if they have new blue bags. I don't have any food allergy issues with my dogs, but I do like the TOTW line of foods. 

I know Diamond had the recalls awhile back, but IMO that makes them one of the safer foods now, that much bad publicity is going to force them to tighten up quality control, or go out of business. They can't survive another recall like that, not any time soon.

Another Diamond food I really like is their Extreme Athlete, even my "hard keepers" were getting fat on that one.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I know Diamond had the recalls awhile back, but IMO that makes them one of the safer foods now, that much bad publicity is going to force them to tighten up quality control, or go out of business. They can't survive another recall like that, not any time soon.


i was thinking the same and when i talked to the sales rep he all but said that. 1/2 of his pitch was explaining their increased QC and ingredient sourcing safety and testing. If i can find it i will certainly give it a try as my guy loves he TOTW salmon kibble and the costco foods seems almost identical to the TOTW salmon.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Not that it means much of course, but Maren said recently that Diamond is one step above, Old Roy...even though half of performance dogs in the bird dog world eat it.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Not that it means much of course, but Maren said recently that Diamond is one step above, Old Roy...even though half of performance dogs in the bird dog world eat it.


Where are THOSE damn matches ? :-\":lol: :-\"


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Just repeating what I was told Candy. I have fed a lot of Diamond over the years to my adults. I did notice after a couple of months on the meat based that the dogs were starting to eat a lot of dirt. I called Diamond and ended up switching from the meat based. From looking at some of the other threads going at the moment, the quality foods are more than many dogs can handle. Either that or consumers are impressed with out of the ordinary ingredients and the foods are not as suitable for the dogs as they have been ead to believe. Years ago, dogs were long lived and most ate Skippy's, Purina, or Gravy Train. The the hobby breeder's said it was crap.The food Butch is talking about I think is for very food sensative dogs and it would be interesting to get some feed back on how some sensative dogs handle it as compared to these "high quality foods" that are causing the hershey squirts with dogs dropping weight.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Just repeating what I was told Candy. I have fed a lot of Diamond over the years to my adults. I did notice after a couple of months on the meat based that the dogs were starting to eat a lot of dirt. I called Diamond and ended up switching from the meat based. From looking at some of the other threads going at the moment, the quality foods are more than many dogs can handle. Either that or consumers are impressed with out of the ordinary ingredients and the foods are not as suitable for the dogs as they have been ead to believe. Years ago, dogs were long lived and most ate Skippy's, Purina, or Gravy Train. The the hobby breeder's said it was crap.The food Butch is talking about I think is for very food sensative dogs and it would be interesting to get some feed back on how some sensative dogs handle it as compared to these "high quality foods" that are causing the hershey squirts with dogs dropping weight.


I totally agree with you, Don ;-) I was just razzing you ;-)~ We used to feed table scraps, Alpo and Skippy's, etc..the dog's lived a long, healthy life. A lot longer than what we're seeing today and you have wonder why :?: Can't help but wonder about all the preservatives/additives used in our foods today. 

I guess these "designer", high quality dog foods these days don't really mean too much if the dog's aren't doing well on them?! Talk about spendy....the 27 # bag of Orijen was $70.00 plus, last time I checked...yikes! One dog on Orijen that I know developed HGE...which can be life threatening if left untreated. 

Do you ever rotate the kibble you feed your dogs Don? I know you also feed raw but my question was aimed more at the dogs fed one kind of kibble for a long period of time developing sensitivities. Maybe the raw balances everything out?

Yes, it will be nice to have some feedback on this new food for sensitive dogs, if anyone decides to try it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> ... The food Butch is talking about I think is for very food sensative dogs and it would be interesting to get some feed back on how some sensative dogs handle it as compared to these "high quality foods" ....


It's a limited-ingredient food. The purpose of limited-ingredient foods that use "exotic" protein sources like buffalo, venison, fish, etc., is to offer proteins that a dog has never had before, uncomplicated with a pile of other ingredients. (Allergies develop on repeated exposure; a "novel protein" is a protein that the individual dog has never eaten.)

The text _"berries and yogurt and all that natural stuff to take care of common allergies"_ is not really relevant if we're talking about true food allergies. 

In a food elimination diet, the dog is fed a limited-ingredient diet (very limited) using only protein sources that the particular dog has never eaten.* No food rewards, medications with coatings, treats, scraps, etc., or anything at all outside the carefully chosen ingredients, are fed during the elimination diet. Allergy symptoms are watched during the elimination diet to determine whether the dog experiences relief from the itching, etc., while off all the foods s/he had been eating before. (This is a simplified overview, obviously. :lol: )

Sometimes these novel limited-ingredient foods are adopted for long-term use. 

One problem with feeding exotic proteins regularly to a non-allergic dog, and especially with switching around among them, is that if your dog does develop food allergies in the future, it is going to be very hard to find a protein that he has never eaten for a real elimination diet. There's a strong case to be made for reserving these exotic sources for necessity so you don't face a choice of ostrich or human meat as the only novel sources your dog has left. :lol:

A dog with digestive problems who is switched from one exotic ingredient to another is going through the list of proteins novel to that dog, making them all useless for an elimination diet further down the road, if needed.






* When the immune system tries to "protect" the body from the perceived invader, it produces IgE antibodies to that particular food. The antibodies trigger mast cells to release chemicals like histamine, causing the symptoms of the allergic reaction. Once those antibodies against a certain food have been manufactured, every time the dog eats the food the histamine is released again and the symptoms recur .... hence, the need for never-eaten ingredients for an elimination diet.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Think about it. There are a lot of dogs that don't do well on the "premiom" foods. but I wonder? Calfifornia Natural Salmon and Sweet Potoato Pie, Orijen(with a "J" no less, Taste of the Wild certaonly sound better than "Skippy's, and Purina". Remember when "Gravy Train" hit the market? Wow, that sounded great, made peoples mouths water in it's day.....so that is what they bought for their dogs. But is it that much better for your dog and, is it worth the cost? Maybe, there is less shit because the dog's system is having to suck everything it can get out because there just isn't enough in there to sustain the dog to start with. There is two sides to that coin.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> ... Calfifornia Natural Salmon and Sweet Potoato Pie, Orijen(with a "J" no less, Taste of the Wild certaonly sound better than "Skippy's, and
> Purina" ....


The ingredient list is a lot better place to focus attention than the name.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

I remember Skippy's and Gravy Train, Alpo, and Gaines Burgers. And Fleas,hot spots,ear infections, etc..... Lol. Things I don't deal with at all anymore.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> I remember Skippy's and Gravy Train, Alpo, and Gaines Burgers. And Fleas,hot spots,ear infections, etc..... Lol. Things I don't deal with at all anymore.



I remember smelly dogs. Funny how I thought when I was a kid that bad-smelling dogs were just ... regular dogs. :lol:



Gaines Burgers! That's one I had forgotten! :lol:

"Burgers." Talk about marketing to the human taste, as Don mentioned ....


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Here is a way to rate dog food that I saw on another list


How to grade your dog's food:
Start with a grade of 100:

1) For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points

2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points

3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points

4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source, subtract 5 points

5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewerâ€™s rice", "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points

6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points

7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points

8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points

9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points

10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract 2 points

11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points

12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points

13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isnâ€™t allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points

14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isnâ€™t allergic to beef), subtract 1 point

15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point

Extra Credit:

1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points

2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist, add 5 points

3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points

4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points

5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points

6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points

7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 points

8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points

9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points

10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point

11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point

12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source, but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1 point

13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point

14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are pesticide-free, add 1 point

94-100+ = A
86-93 = B
78-85 = C
70-77 = D
<70 = F

Here are some foods that have already been scored. If you don't see your dog's food here, ask and someone will score it for you.
Dog Food scores:

Alpo Prime Cuts / Score 81 C

Artemis Large/Medium Breed Puppy / Score 114 A+

Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+

Authority Harvest Baked Less Active / Score 93 B

Beowulf Back to Basics / Score 101 A+

Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F

Blackwood 3000 Lamb and Rice / Score 83 C

Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice / Score 106 A+

Burns Chicken and Brown Rice / Score 107 A+

Canidae / Score 112 A+

Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+

Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F

Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B

Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A

Diamond Performance / Score 85 C

**** Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+

**** Van Patten’s Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice / Score 106 A+

**** Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+

EaglePack Holistic / Score 102 A+

Eukanuba Adult / Score 81 C

Eukanuba Puppy / Score 79 C

Flint River Senior / Score 101 A+

Foundations / Score 106 A+

Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B

Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D

Innova Dog / Score 114 A+

Innova Evo / Score 114 A+

Innova Large Breed Puppy / Score 122 A+

Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+

Member’s Mark Chicken and Rice / Score 84 C

Merrick Wilderness Blend / Score 127 A+

Nature’s Recipe / Score 100 A

Nature’s Recipe Healthy Skin Venison and Rice / Score 116 A+

Nature’s Variety Raw Instinct / Score 122 A+

Nutra Nuggets Super Premium Lamb Meal and Rice / Score 81 C

Nutrience Junior Medium Breed Puppy / Score 101 A+

Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B

Nutro Max Adult / Score 93 B

Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice / Score 98 A

Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B

Nutro Natural Choice Puppy Wheat Free / Score 86 B

Nutro Natural Choice Senior / Score 95 A

Nutro Ultra Adult / Score 104 A+

Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F

Premium Edge Chicken, Rice and Vegetables Adult Dry / Score 109 A+

Pro Nature Puppy / Score 80 C

Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach / Score 94 A

Purina Benful / Score 17 F

Purina Dog / Score 62 F

Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F

Purina One Large Breed Puppy / Score 62 F

Royal Canin Boxer / Score 103 A+

Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+

Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+

Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F

Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F

Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A

Solid Gold / Score 99 A

Summit / Score 99 A

Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural Dry / Score 120 A+

Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+

Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I remember smelly dogs. Funny how I thought when I was a kid that bad-smelling dogs were just ... regular dogs. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Years ago my dogs loved Gravy Train! I have a strange feeling if I put a bowl of it in front of my current dogs they would think they died and went to heaven. They just eat this dry crap called Super Pero right now.:-D


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

That grading system does pop up all the time, Thomas, but here is an explanation of some its problems:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grading_kibble


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Years ago my dogs loved Gravy Train! I have a strange feeling if I put a bowl of it in front of my current dogs they would think they died and went to heaven. They just eat this dry crap called Super Pero right now.:-D



_Super Pero _ .... I had been meaning to ask you what you could get there. I knew it was very limited.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I remember smelly dogs. Funny how I thought when I was a kid that bad-smelling dogs were just ... regular dogs. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dogs smelled like dogs then Connie. You were the odd one if you let your dog live in the house in those days. Now, Some dogs smell so good it may tempt on to ask it out on a date.....but that isn't really what dogs smell like naturally, Today, people just think they are supposed to. The new smell is just another adjustment we incorporated to make them liveable in our space. As Steve said, he remembers flea's, smelly ears, hot spots the at he doesn't have to deal with anymore. Someone is dealing with them because I see them being discussed.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Yep, I think I'll stick with feeding roadkill and hunter left-overs.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Dogs smelled like dogs then Connie. ...


Not at all what I meant.  I was referring to the bad smell that accompanied (and still does, but I have learned better with mine, as so many folks have) a lot of the skin and mouth (dental) problems that I see much less of in dogs fed meat and bones, etc., or the commercial foods that are closer to meat and bones than they are to a bowl of eternal-shelf-life cereal.



Don Turnipseed said:


> You were the odd one if you let your dog live in the house in those days. Now, Some dogs smell so good it may tempt on to ask it out on a date.....


It's a food thread .... I wasn't talking about dirt (or scented shampoos). :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> ... dogs fed meat and bones ...




Like yours, Don.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Bad breath!!!, Gotcha Connie. You bet...meaty bones. Knocks all that build up right off those teeth. Years ago feeding all the kibbles, the dogs would get one heck of a build up on the back teeth. I got them some knuckle bones since I heard that that would work. In a week I looked at an old dog that had a terrible build up of tartar. The teeth themselves showed deterioration , but, there wasn't a speck of tartar left. I was a believer right then. Which goes to show, when something really works, I have no problem with it....so I am not totally a skeptic, but, I do want to see it work rather than be told it works. Luckily, all these high priced foods are talked about often enough that I don't have to try them all when what I am using works without the hershy squirts and wieght loss. The food Butch mentioned is a special needs food for the dogs of today. I wonder if Costco will be able to maintain the sales to justify carrying it for long.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> ... The food Butch mentioned is a special needs food for the dogs of today. I wonder if Costco will be able to maintain the sales to justify carrying it for long.


Limited-ingredient exotic-protein-source foods are indeed special-needs foods. That was part of what I was trying to get across -- that running through those exotic (or novel) protein sources on a healthy dog may not be the smartest way to go. Reserving novel proteins for the possibility of needing them one day is something to think about. Once you feed a novel protein, it's not novel to your dog any more and is no longer a possibility for an elimination diet.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Bad breath!!!, Gotcha Connie. You bet...meaty bones. Knocks all that build up right off those teeth. Years ago feeding all the kibbles, the dogs would get one heck of a build up on the back teeth. ....


Not just the scraping (mechanical) tartar-control benefit, but also the enzymes that remain active in raw meat. I think that enzymes in raw meat help meat debris between the teeth and on the gumline to "self-digest." 

I've read this many times, and I have to say that I do see pretty amazing lessening of tartar buildup when I acquire and switch a dog who has been kibble-fed, but I don't have the authoritative info to allow me to say that such-and-such digestive enzyme that is alive in raw meat but killed by cooking can help keep plaque from forming (and even help dissolve existing plaque). Anecdotally, I believe it. But I can't point to a source that spells it out.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Throw out the DASH and look at those dogs go!!

Boy, am I OLD!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

On the occasion my childhood dog got dog food it was Strongheart canned or Strongheart horsemeat. 
Most of what she ate was table scraps.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> _Super Pero _ .... I had been meaning to ask you what you could get there. I knew it was very limited.


It is the best I can find and I can't get it every time because they run out. I don't have the freezer space for raw and don't go to a "real" town often enough just refrigerate it.


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