# Sleeve comparison



## Josiah Neuman

Any recommendation on Gappay vs. Schweikert? I am looking at purchasing for non-trial training with intermediate dogs. 

Thanks,

Josiah Neuman


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## Julie Blanding

Hello Josiah,

I have used and like both types. I use the schweikert arms for more experienced or very hard biting dogs. I know a lot of people don't like them, but to me they hold up the best and they last forever. Sometimes my arm gets a little scratched up when shedding, but that's the only thing I would complain about. These are number 5984. For my arm at least you have to turn the handle slightly down to give the proper presentation. There is also a lighter version that I like a lot, easy to move and postion (5982). I also have a young dog arm, but I don't know what the number is on that one... very large/wide bite bar.

I use the gappay much more often. Easier for the dogs to bite and feel good (the ones I have are the air compression arms). However, there are some dogs I wouldn't use this sleeve on as I would feel my two bones on the lower arm rub together. Easier to get the right angle on this sleeve.

I know you didn't ask about the Bende arms, but I like these too. I have the Bende Evo Light. The handle is in the perfect place and the arm is not too hard for young/intermediate dogs to bite. Very easy to keep the angle.

You didn't ask about the Belgium arm either, but this is a really nice sleeve as well. To me a nice in between of my gappay and schweikert.

There are tons more ppl on the board that have more experience.. hopefully they will reply.

Thanks,
Julie


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## Mario Fernandez

Everybody has their opinion on sleeves. I order a lot of equipment for our club so I am always looking for deals or willing to try out different brands of sleeves, between two clubs we try out a lot of sleeves and some are good and some are bad.

Schweikert arms are very durable, they are a lot lighter now then they use to be. I personally hate the bite handle placement on the Schweikert sleeves and always have to modify them myself and the bitebars are hard as a rock. I have parked my girlfriends Honda on the bite bar to soften the bitebar. If you wanted a Schweikert sleeve my favorite was the 83 arm, I do not think they make it anymore. 80, 82 are more trial arms, 84 arm has a compressible bite barrel, but the bite bar is still hard as rock. I would not buy any of the two piece sleeves.

Gappay I liked but disappointed with how quickly the trial arms bite bars broke down. I like the 119 arm rather than the 110. The 119 is more of a wedge shape. The Gappay light is nice soft and light arm but you have to buy a specialized cover. Gappay has sure went up in price and can’t see paying $180-$200 for a sleeve that bite bar softens so quickly. 

Belgian sleeve is a nice sleeve, more of a trial sleeve, if I had a complaint about this sleeve, it is that they are still not manufactured consistently.

I like Bende Sleeves never had a problem with them, abused the shit out of the sleeves and still hold up and priced right. Julie mentions the Evo sleeve it seems to be a nice sleeve, never used it, but a buddy loves his. I prefer the #12 arm, wedge shape and perfect for young and seasoned dogs and has plenty of room in the barrel for your arm, this may be what you are looking for.

I would like to add Ray Allen Basic training Compression sleeve, it is only $125 the bite bar is a wedge shape similar to the Bende 12 arm but lighter and so far very durable. I use this sleeve for young and the older dogs. I use this sleeve a lot. Use to think Ray Allen stuff was way over priced and inferior to some of the other brands. I was pleasantly surprised with this sleeve as well as their 213 trial sleeve. They support law enforcement and a lot of the different sport organizations, plus made in the USA. I try to support these type of companies.

I like the Puppy chomp from Harddogs, I use this sleeve on adults too. 



Best of luck on what ever you decide, this is just my experience with some of these sleeves. 

Regards,

Mario Fernandez


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## Sue DiCero

Have you tried a Bende? 

That is what Gabor started with and always goes back to. Some of the newer sleeves, he and Gyapi were part of the design and testing team.


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## Howard Gaines III

Ray Allen has a nice basic sleeve but does not fair well as the dog starts harder biting. In fact, I would score it low on overall use. Maybe see a year of hard use on it! The Gappay sleeve is nice and light and priced about the same. Try several and also ask decoys about the amount of wear they are putting on their stuff. If you cross train hard biting dogs, I think you will want to see Leerburg's site. We got a sleeve from them and I've been real pleased. Fast, Light, and Easy on the Wallet!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Josiah, go get the suit on, and work call offs with the "Goose" enough of this sleeve shit buddy.


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## Lisa Geller

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
thanks Jeff, that made me laugh!


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## mike suttle

Josiah Neuman said:


> Any recommendation on Gappay vs. Schweikert? I am looking at purchasing for non-trial training with intermediate dogs.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Josiah Neuman


If my only choices were between Gappay and Schweikert, I would go with a Schweikert, but now your question should be which model??
The Gappay is a lighter weight sleeve and allows faster movement / triggers, but the Schweikert will outlast the Gappay two to one.
I co-owned a very large equipment company here in the USA for several years..... www.signaturek9.com
I have an unreal inventory of equipment in my training room (over 50 sleeves) from every manufacturer on the planet. One sleeve that I use a lot for intermediate dogs is the Puppy Chomp made by Hard Dog Requisites. I also really like the Eurosport 04 air compression sleeve, or the 06 intermediate sleeve.
I have an equipment fedish really, I literally drive my truck onto the training field full of equipment on a big training day when I know we have a shit load of dogs all at different stages of work.
If I had to pick one sleeve for intermediate dogs, I'd pick the Chomp.
Of course i have some really nice young dog sleeves that I picked up in Holland from different manufacturers that I really llike as well.
There are so many sleeves to choose from, it is hard to narrow it down.
Stay away from anything made by Active Dogs, it will fall apart and it looks like it was made from materials bought at Wal Mart.


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## Jason Sidener

mike suttle said:


> One sleeve that I use a lot for intermediate dogs is the Puppy Chomp made by Hard Dog Requisites.


+1 for the hard dog sleeves. I also have a trial sleeve that hard dog made for me that I realy like.


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## mike suttle

Jason Sidener said:


> +1 for the hard dog sleeves. I also have a trial sleeve that hard dog made for me that I realy like.


LOL, Guy did not make it just for you Jason.......it is called a Shark Bar, and I have one of those too:lol: 
Nice sleeve as well, but I prefer even for my trial sleeves to have a small amount of "crumple" to them to avoid injury to teeth and spine for fast dogs and slow decoys  For a trial sleeve it is hard to beat the Eurosport 01 for speed and longevity.


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## James Downey

mike suttle said:


> Stay away from anything made by Active Dogs, it will fall apart and it looks like it was made from materials bought at Wal Mart.


I will atest to that. I bought 6 blinds from them, 3 fell apart. So, I wrote them saying I wanted a refund. Thier website stated "Active dogs does not give cash refunds" they said we do not give refunds. I said it says cash, I paid with credit. They said cash means every type of payment. 2 days later they changed thier return policy to include all forms of payment. I am still in dispute with credit card company. They did send 3 new poles (that was the faulty component). I rejected them. I told them that half of the blinds failed...and this was before I even took them out of the package. Their website also said to contact them if this happened and they would send an UPS inspector out. They never did this. They replied 3 poles out of 18 failed. I told them I did not buy poles, I bought blinds. and there are 6 blinds in a set and 3 are unusable. What kind of company does not let you return damaged goods for a refund? I would have taken new blinds, but the blinds were so crappy that it would be only a short time before all of them failed. I went cheap and bought twice. Lesson learned. Later I googled them and found a bunch of unhappy people who bought products, all with similar complaints.


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## Howard Gaines III

Forget the sleeve compaarison stuff...use a puppy grade sleeve with a neo under sleeve and THEN test the bite.  If your arm puffs up and bleeds out, ya got good grips!


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## Josiah Neuman

I appreciate the input - currently I have been using the Ray Allen compression sleeve and it seems to be encouraging dogs to chew on the bite. Obviously genetics, helper work, and several factors can lead to this however at this point I really think this sleeve compresses too easily therefore dogs are chewing and working this action too much.

Any thoughts on compression sleeves leading to this type of bite behavior? I am not talking about type writers - shifting from point A to B or anything like that, simply dogs biting down compressing, and continously doing this in one spot on the bite.

The harddog's Requisites looks nice - I think I have seen there sleeves on the field before but never used one in person.

Again, thanks for the input everyone.

Regards, 

Josiah


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## Howard Gaines III

Josiah I don't see the equipment as the issue. Decoying makes or breaks many dogs. Handlers NOT rewarding the dog with verbals are just as bad. "Good packen!" We have dogs with our group that bite on everything: hard sleeves, soft ones, bodies, padded sticks...Get my sheep if they could!

If the dog is chewing the sleeve, I see it as prey killing. It could also be stress. It can't chew what it can't have and his head should be held up to prevent it. The Ray Allen is one in our group of sleeves. I do like the new Leerburg sleeve we got a few weeks ago.


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## Kris Finison

I can't comment on the sleeves you're asking about but I can offer this:

TRY ON and WORK DOGS in the sleeve (or at least the same make and model of sleeve) BEFORE you get it. I have found that my biggest dislikes with sleeves is the angle of the handle inside.
You can have it on and it feels fine but as soon as you get a dog on it your wrist and/or shoulder and elbow could be getting torqued nice and proper. 
Also, depending on the angle of the handle and how you present, the bite bar could also be pointing up or down more than desired, making you have to work even harder to get a good bite placement out of some dogs. Not fun.


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## Steve Burger

I can't compare because the only sleeves at our club are Schweikert. In the past a helper at our club brought a sleeve he had been presented at a trial where he did the decoy work. The TD looked at it and threw it over the fence. I think that is the last time an "alternate sleeve" was brought in.


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## Kristen Cabe

Ok, just for funsies, what would be the best type of sleeve (ie: most comfortable, best fit) for a petite female helper working from older puppies on up to intermediate dogs? Most sleeves seem to be too big for the person - either they're too long and she has a hard time holding the handle on the inside or it is crammed up into her armpit, or it's so big around that it looks flat out ridiculous on her, and before anyone asks, NO, it's NOT me!  =;


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## Julie Blanding

Kristen Cabe said:


> before anyone asks, NO, it's NOT me!  =;


Why not you!? It's a great way to learn tons about dog behavior...


But besides that, if your friend is only working puppies and intermediate dogs has she thought about just buying the half sleeves? They should fit on the lower arm fine and then she wouldn't have to jam her arm all the way in to reach the handle.

Likes these for example:
http://www.elitek9.com/Sleeves/index.htm
Under the puppy/young dog sleeve

or 

http://www.itbitez.net/servlet/the-2...lopment/Detail



Bende also makes a half sleeve like the EVO, the same thing just without the upper arm portion. (sorry can't find a good link for that at the moment)

Just remember if you're using these to be sure you can teach targeting well









Also, there are brands like Gappay and others that make 'short' versions of their arms.. has she tried any of those?

Good Luck!
Julie


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## Kristen Cabe

No way would I buy my own sleeve right now, Julie. I can make do with what the TD uses for learning purposes. I'd suck at helper work, though, because I'm too meek. I'm not one to huff and puff and yell and carry on. :lol:

I'll mention the half sleeves to her and see what she thinks.


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## Greg Naranjo

Gappay 114 trial "soft" IMO, it is perfect as an intermediate arm. Also check this site out http://www.cariz.eu/ so of the best training arms and wedges I've ever used


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