# Adding upper body targets for a Ringsport dog ..



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

My bitch is a leg dog most of her foundation has been on the legs, though she targets a SchH arm sleeve like she has been doing it all her life. 

I'd like to keep it simple to have her target obvious targets. Such as collar bone, shoulder and bicep. On returns after esquives. With a secondary inside arm when close up to counter getting scooped when going under or over the stick. 

So far we have been using barrels or milk crates to block the legs or plugging her onto the arms. Though the issue is when we are not using the props she reverts to the legs.

Is this just a repetition thing?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Some dogs after being on legs for a long time have a lot of problems even looking to the upper body. It takes a long time after that.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Make short work with this. Put her on a round table so that the table highth is just above the knees of the decoy.Offer her those targets and she will take them. Too easy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Till you put her back on the ground. Not so easy.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Train where you want them to bite...
A fence kills the legs and a few months of back bites and the dog should add it to the list of targets, but legs IS what you started with. If they can't stand they can't fight!:lol:


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

On the PDS side we have the same issue but in reverse... after spending a ton of time on the upper body we teach legs. We will get the dog to point where he will bite wherever he can BUT given the chance will almost always revert to his foundation training...hitting high. 

I'm sure it's all the same with the ring folks..... legs are the foundation and where most dogs want to go given the opertunity.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

is your dog a real sport dog ? if it is, have the decoy only wear the jacket. if this is not the case, put the dog on a bungie and make sure she can only get arm or upper body bites. decoy presents himself like he will take a leg bite and then pivot and scoop. the dog will learn that it gets no bites if it doesn't take the arm. this way lets the dog make a decision to take the arm. when you use props the dog bites the only thing available. hope this helps


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Yes she is very safe Tim, she is for sure one of those dogs who bites for fun, that makes a lot of sense. Just wear the jacket and use something like an agility tunnel to go over to force her high while the decoy calls her there. 

I for sure see the issue of not enough all around foundation vs high and low. I've only seen a couple of dogs pull off becoming overall suit biters when heavy foundation was put in the legs. Same with sleeve dogs transitioning to the legs like Matt's description of PSDs he has known. Though those dogs had lots of repetition to get to that point. 

I had hoped that it would be alot easier since she really enjoys the arm sleeve. I guess the legs are her comfort zone.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> Yes she is very safe Tim, she is for sure one of those dogs who bites for fun, that makes a lot of sense. Just wear the jacket and use something like an agility tunnel to go over to force her high while the decoy calls her there.
> 
> I for sure see the issue of not enough all around foundation vs high and low. I've only seen a couple of dogs pull off becoming overall suit biters when heavy foundation was put in the legs. Same with sleeve dogs transitioning to the legs like Matt's description of PSDs he has known. Though those dogs had lots of repetition to get to that point.
> 
> ...


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Yeah she just bites ankles right? ;-)


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Geoff your bitch needs to know the options of the bite location.

First teach her to push the stick.

The correct training decoy will push back to teach the dog to go over the stick.

Be carefull, Ring II is more difficult to train than the III exercises.

jc


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

table. 

She can't get to the legs so you give her the upper body targets. She will learn that these targets are ok to bite. You do this long enough and she understands that this is another place she can bite. To test this put her back on the ground as Jeff said, she will revert back to what's most comfortable for her. Training don't end there. You start giving her just the upper body targets. Now learning starts all over again. Now that she has done it on a table she will start upper body bites but remember not to give her the leggs. At least try not to, she will get some. What ever you start with, upper or lower body, that's what she go for first BUT now she has another option. Give her NO targets and she'll get what she can, if you do it right. LOL


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Geoff your bitch needs to know the options of the bite location.
> 
> First teach her to push the stick.
> 
> ...


We've done this Jerry it is the same method that Kevin used with Yako I think. 

Is this when you use an agitation collar and set the dog and decoy puts the stick against the chest, once the decoy pushes the stick you plug the dog on the corresponding arm? 

Time for another Ringsport INC meeting!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks Jerry L We've done something similar but we used an agilty tunnel to block the legs. The training decoy just kept calling her to where he wanted her to bite. It worked well especially since I was catching her on the recall with a Belgian jute arm sleeve and I could switch arms around inside/outside etc. Plus she launches into the bite naturally from both sides.

I am thinking that it is repetition thing for sure. I'd try a table but without seeing it firsthand or at least on video, I'd need more practical info and a decoy that understands the technique and the end result.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

It's a short drive down, come on and we'll show you.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

The bungee works great for targeting


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