# Training water recovery



## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

I have no experience with water work. I am interested and have the opportunity for my first peek at a seminar this fall.

What are the techniques for beginning and then continuing water work? I always assumed it was always cadaver material under the water. From snippets of conversation I understand that some teams begin with divers (Nancy?)--again for some reason I thought the divers had material with them...Now I think not? 

After beginning with divers...what do you do next? How long do the dogs work with the live divers? What is the theory on using divers? Do you work exclusively with divers or is cadaver introduced? How is the cadaver used and what sources are used/best?

Thanks for any info!!


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I think most have some level of diver work and I think the main value is that most water recovery calls are someone that has been in the water only a few hours and their smell is probably closer to live than decomp. It is certainly true that live find only dogs can be trained to locate drowning victims.

I know that my live find dog trained in water went absolutely ballistic on a fresh drowning where my cadaver only trained dog was much more subtle than he was on even small amounts of decomp. My teammates have had a similar experience.

The main issue I had with diver training was it overstimulated my dog. With my next dog I will do diver training but I don't think I want the diver to surface to fight with the dog; I will just throw the ball in. Also the diver gives an artificailly strong concentration of scent where the bubbles leave the surface (the visual of the bubbles can be an issue but you don't even see them if you are training in any level of chop) The interaction may be needed with a dog with lower drives to jack up and stimulate the dog I guess but mine almost tipped the boat trying to get to/dive on the diver. That is what I am thinking right now.

I would find some folks who have never done diver training and find their perception. Who are you going to a seminar with? Lisa Higgins/Dee Wild/Joe (something, he is from LiSAR also)-Jonni Joyce - Barbara Weakly-Jones. But all of these folks do use divers at some level.

Before I am working a boat dog with water cadaver I think I would work plenty of shoreline problems with submerged aids. We do use a scent pump sometimes but I like it better with source out in the water. We use a mixture of teeth and tissue with our scent pump (and in a basket when it goes into the wate.


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## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

Thanks Nancy

Since I have not even seen water work, can you describe the steps starting the process.

I can start working submerged problems to get him ready-I have teeth, would that be strong enough in shallow still water? I also have fluids on guaze--would the water wash away the scent ( I can get more, just not sure how effective it would be as an aid).


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

For shoreline you just start with it like normal problems and gradually move it out deeper so the dog has to work it. You don't have alligators so keeping the dog out of the water (shoreline indication) may not be necessary - you ask for the trained indication of they can give it or if it is out deeper the typically will naturally swim in circles around it. 

If you want the dog swimming around source one way to do it is to make a float the you can control with a long cord and pop it up in the water. they get their reward at source that way (the float) of course you have to either have a ball to trade or let them swim the float back to shore. I don't have the gear here but will try to come up with a better way to describe (maybe there is a file on k9forensics or k9sar-I will also PM you something on Sunday)

I will go into more detail later but Jonni Joyce and Lisa Higgins use the way I describe it - Barbara Weakly Jones more different. Honestly I like reading the dogs body language on water more than a forced indication and LETS requires an agressive alert on water which I agree with if you are going do use one.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Do yourself a favor and start shoreline training on small ponds NOT on streams. As you know from handling a live find dog scent does strange things around streams.


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## Jonathan Brown (May 11, 2011)

I started with divers. It gave my dog a fun opportunity to learn that what he is looking for can be hidden underwater too. The main benefit I see is it is easy to signal to the diver to surface at the right moment, and then immediately get a high-value reward. First I let my dog play with a diver in full equipment on land so he wouldn't be startled by the strange-looking outfit. Next I had my dog watch the diver walk out into the water and submerge, then resurface with the toy, then play. Then we progressed to the boat. I gave my toy to the diver and he swam out and submerged. We boarded the boat and I gave my dog his live-find command, and then the boat driver made a few passes downwind from the diver's location. This was as much a first learning opportunity for me to see my dog's behavior in the boat as it was for him to learn to search from a boat. When right at the diver's location, we signaled him to surface and then they played tug.

I think it is a good approach to starting a water search dog, but certainly not the only way. Since he got the idea quickly there was no need to keep using divers, so we progressed to working cad sources next. I used big sources, especially in the beginning, so I could learn to read my dog's behavior from a distance. I think teeth or fluid on gauze would be pretty small for water. You need to learn when your dog goes into and then out of scent, and it is easier to do that with a big source.

For me it was very important to have an experienced handler driving the boat and telling me what to do, what not to do, when to praise my dog, when to shut up, etc. So rather than follow any one specific plan I think the best approach is to find an experienced instructor to work with and do whatever they tell you to do.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

If you have a cross-trained dog, the air scent machine/diver method is fine.

If you have an HRD-only dog, the above will screw them up. They don't care if ANDY DIVER is down there and one showing up tends to freak them out. The scent machine is better for dogs that work nose up versus a dog that works the oil slick on the surface.


It's also crucial to take multiple trips out on a boat with your dog just to acclimate it to moving around in a boat. 

A good water dog handler needs to learn how to direct the driver to keep the exhaust out of the boat.
I have a pet peave where the dog is allowed to jump out into the water to circle over the "body". The problem becomes when the dog is pulled back into the boat and the scent is spread everywhere all over the boat as the dog drips.

For an HRD-only dog, I'd suggest you train the dog to six inch buried then migrate to shoreline then to boat. A good water team will deploy dogs along the shore and use the wind to triangulate where a boat should be deployed by the intersections of scent-into-the-wind.

For me, water work is simply buried in a different medium where the scent travel is via the oils that rise to the surface.

I believe the name you were looking for with Lisa Higgins is Joe Meyers.


Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

The only thing that gives me pause to consider the diver is that many teams have a hard time being able to work large sources other than the real thing.

Any change I get to work a large source in the water I will take because I think having it spread out on the surface is much more realistic. We worked one search where the fellow hit the prop on the way down and I Id'd the boat (uh was he on THAT boat?) as we were leaving to search. He was a quick find in about 75 feet of water. We actually were picking up scent all the way out the channel to the main river. [think large reservoir] 

A diver puts out a lot of scent even if it is not HR and you really can see the dog working and it can help you to teach the dog to "steer" the boat. It takes the dog no time once he realizes it involves his ball.

I would say if you use them, just use it to get down the basics of the dog steering the boat and working the gunnels and keep doing water problems with HR.

My dog was not freaked out by the diver he just wanted to fight with him for that ball so much that I am still having issues with that excitement that I figured I could just reward from the boat. I have seen other dogs trained that method and fighting with the diver being just like him.

Also a jon boat is real nice to learn in but we are usually on much bigger boats so you need to train with them too. I don't want my dog to launch in the water. Every time we go out I have this internal fear that he is going to become chum. Plus the alligator thing in some waters. We are very careful about transporting HR in the boat when we deploy. We NEVER put our sources in the boat 

Yes, Joe Meyer. I liked him. What I liked was he was all about reading the dog on the boat and I think you have to be able to read a dog if you are going to work water.


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