# Cop shoots family GSD on its own property



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

The comments following the article seem to be 99% anti-cop. However, the reality is that the homeowner is at fault. 1) Lock your gates. Doing so prevents someone letting your dogs get off of your property and also prevent someone from innocently wandering onto your property and getting mauled. 2) If you're expecting company then keep your dogs where you can watch them or simply put them away. Now, I'm not saying the cop should have shot the dog. However, if the owner had followed either of the above-mentioned, their dog would be alive and well. 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...plus-does-security-vid-contradict-cops-story/


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Patrick Murray said:


> The comments following the article seem to be 99% anti-cop. However, the reality is that the homeowner is at fault. 1) Lock your gates. Doing so prevents someone letting your dogs get off of your property and also prevent someone from innocently wandering onto your property and getting mauled. 2) If you're expecting company then keep your dogs where you can watch them or simply put them away. Now, I'm not saying the cop should have shot the dog. However, if the owner had followed either of the above-mentioned, their dog would be alive and well.
> 
> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...plus-does-security-vid-contradict-cops-story/


So its the dog owners fault they shot his dog then.......:roll:


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## Ricky Mav (Jul 28, 2011)

A lock and a bell system would have definitely helped that situation. I do think that the police officers could have done more due diligence to check and see if the dogs were outside or inside. It looked like they just walked right on the property.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Ricky Mav said:


> A lock and a bell system would have definitely helped that situation. I do think that the police officers could have done more due diligence to check and see if the dogs were outside or inside. It looked like they just walked right on the property.


The homeowner was expecting the police as they had an appointment, although the police were (per the article) an hour late. They should have put the dogs away.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Jones said:


> So its the dog owners fault they shot his dog then.......:roll:


I'm not saying the cop should have shot the dog. I AM saying the dog's owner let it down by putting it into that position wherein anyone off the street could open the gate and just walk right in. Additionally, the owner KNEW the police would be coming. They should NOT have put their poor dog into that position. The consequence of their neglect proves my point.


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## Ricky Mav (Jul 28, 2011)

Patrick Murray said:


> The homeowner was expecting the police as they had an appointment, although the police were (per the article) an hour late. They should have put the dogs away.


I wasn't aware of that fact, I just watched the video. That incident is the owner's fault. If I order a pizza, I make sure that my dogs are secured.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

one way reporting ... inconclusive ... video doesn't confirm much of anything ... not many facts .... so why even post this ?

you wanna start a discussion on responsible pet ownership or under what circumstances a LEO can justify shooting a dog ?
---probably both would be non productive threads ](*,)

if you wanna stir up the pot, put something in it first


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

rick smith said:


> one way reporting ... inconclusive ... video doesn't confirm much of anything ... not many facts .... so why even post this ?
> 
> you wanna start a discussion on responsible pet ownership or under what circumstances a LEO can justify shooting a dog ?
> ---probably both would be non productive threads ](*,)
> ...


The bottom line is if one is going to invite people to their homes then they should probably put their dogs up, especially if they're not going to be there to greet their guests. The owner didn't do that and the police arrived, as expected, and shot her dog. Don't put your dogs in a position like this. This isn't a thread about cops killing dogs, it's a thread about how owners put their dogs into dangerous situations and what the consequence can be. 

If one is too stupid to understand this then they probably shouldn't own a dog.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i'll stand by what i posted, thank you

re this comment : "it's a thread about how owners put their dogs into dangerous situations and what the consequence can be." 
...well, maybe you shoulda posted your advice in the recent coyote thread if it means so much to you ... it's a lot more common situation and is happening more and more these days 

instead, you selectively chose some "almost never happens", vague, one sided news story of cops shooting a pet on someone's property and say you did it to show the consequences of irresponsible ownership ??

and then you say, if you "don't get it", you shouldn't own a dog ???

for most LEOs, discharging their firearm is use of deadly force and is only justified in self defense; meaning their life was in danger ... did you happen to see that ? of course not ](*,)

MY house is MY property and if MY dogs are not aggressive and will not engage someone entering, why in the heck would i have to "put them up" (whatever that means) ??
- do you know how these dogs were trained and how aggressive they were ? did you see them engage anyone ? of course not ](*,)

that's why i said if you want to advise people how not to get their dogs shot, this would not be a good example, imnsho ](*,)

all in all, using this press release is imo a poor way to educate people on responsible pet ownership, and it raises controversy about LE that cannot be verified either way, which is never productive, so i'm sticking to my opinion
... and i feel i am a very responsible "pet owner" too 

just pissed off at my leaking roof and your post was a convenient way to vent off some frustration :grin:


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## Josh Sutherland (Sep 21, 2011)

rick smith said:


> i'll stand by what i posted, thank you
> 
> re this comment : "it's a thread about how owners put their dogs into dangerous situations and what the consequence can be."
> ...well, maybe you shoulda posted your advice in the recent coyote thread if it means so much to you ... it's a lot more common situation and is happening more and more these days
> ...



I agree with Rick. Its the owners fault? No, cops were late. They should have seen the sign before entering the yard. There's an invention these days called a cell phone. They could have called the owner before entering the yard. In conclusion/my opinion cops got scared and panicked. I bet had they stood there ground and not pissed themselves the dogs wouldn't have bothered them.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Here's a few questions:

1) Why do the owners leave their gate unlocked so that anyone can walk in and be attacked or someone can open the gate and let the dogs roam the neighborhood to get hit by a car, etc.? Are you saying that the owner is doing a GOOD thing by NOT locking their gate? 

2) The owner was expecting the police. Yes, the police were late but sometimes police get called to more urgent matters. Since the owner apparently wasn't there, why didn't they put them in a LOCKED enclosure of some sort (kennel, indoor crate, etc.) so that they would NOT be able to confront someone? Speaking of which, where was the owner? They just take off and leave their dogs in their yard with an unlocked gate? 

3) If I order a pizza and then run down to 7-11 (thinking I'll be back before the pizza guy gets there) and the pizza guy comes and, while walking to my front door, gets attacked by my dog, whose fault it? Is it the pizza guy's fault? Or should I have 1)locked my gate so that the pizza guy (or anyone else) would NOT be able to enter my property (outside of climbing the fence) or 2)put my dogs in a locked kennel so that, on the outside chance the pizza guy got there before my return, the dogs would not be able to confront him? 

We're all dog lovers here. I've got no horse in this race. Saying the owner was irresponsible doesn't make me the villain. I agree 100% that the cop should NOT have shot the dog but, like many people, she is probably terrified of a barking, growling GSD, panicked and shot the dog. Too many cops who can't read a dog have done this with many cases being far more egregious than this. In any event, if the owner had exercised a little bit of common sense responsibility her dog would be alive.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Patrick Murray said:


> . In any event, if the owner had exercised a little bit of common sense...QUOTE]
> 
> Wouldn't that be a breath of fresh air?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

You can read a lot of threads here and see the wheels turning to justify stupidity. Common sense isn't common. Just pray for evolution to speed up and safety measures to go away. It's the only answer to cleaning hereditary stupid/enablers out of the gene pool. On the other hand, people forget things sometimes and it's unfortunate that they and their dog paid the price. 





Brian McQuain said:


> Patrick Murray said:
> 
> 
> > . In any event, if the owner had exercised a little bit of common sense...QUOTE]
> ...


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## Josh von Weber (Apr 1, 2013)

I think both sides of this argument are fully correct. In no particular order of importance, I see the issue as follows:

- The homeowner absolutely should have locked the gate. This is a very common sense course of action. If someone enters the property unexpectedly and is injured by an animal then the homeowner could be held liable, especially if entrance to the property was not secured. If the homeowner uses their dog to guard the property then it wouldn't make sense to keep the dog in a crate or a pen. Now this isn't to say this should not have been the case here, because the police were expected to arrive at some point, but in general I don't take issue with the dog being loose in the yard an hour after the scheduled appointment.

- The police should not have entered the property an hour past the agreed upon appointment time. I agree that a police officer's time and attention can often be stretched in many directions at once, which can make it difficult to be on time. However, if an hour has passed, and the officer arrived to a closed gate with a sign that clearly says "BEWARE of DOG", then I think it foolhardy for the officer enter without the homeowner present or at least with their awareness and consent. I do not believe this should always be the case, such as a situation in which the officer is there for the purpose of apprehension, but in this case it was absolutely incorrect to enter the property at that time and under those circumstances.

We will likely never be fully informed about the details of this occurrence, but I think it's safe to say that the shooting could have been an overreaction. However, as stated above, the homeowner ABSOLUTELY should have locked the gate. That said, perhaps if the officer was willing to pass by a warning such as the one posted on the gate, then perhaps the officer would have jumped over the gate if it HAD been locked. In the end, the only way this situation would have ended differently would be if the dog had been secured, but it wasn't for whatever reason, whether valid or not. The blame cannot be placed with the homeowner. They own a dog that was in a fenced yard and apparently acted as it should have when faced with an intruder. I call the officer an intruder in this case because they entered the property at a time when they were not invited to do so. Was there an open invitation extended? I couldn't say. But the story indicates that an appointment was set for a specific time, and the officer did not arrive at that time, nor at any reasonable time thereafter. I would be inclined to believe that the homeowner's consent for the officer to enter the premises could reasonably be determined to have expired. Can the entire blame be placed with the officer? This cannot be definitively determined without viewing the entire event. I would say it's more likely the officer's fault, even if we were able to see that they were faced with a real threat. Without knowing the details I couldn't say for sure who should be blamed, except to say that a dog was shot on it's own fenced property by someone who it would seem was neither invited nor expected at that time. It will be interesting to see what happens.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Great post, Josh. Both parties could and should have used better discretion. It's unfortunate that the dog was the one that paid the ultimate price.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Based on the article, I agree with Josh, the owners should have locked their gate, but the police shouldn't have entered. I also think the police could have offered to cover at least part of the cost of the dogs' surgery.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Culling for common sense would probably loose 90% of our genetic base. What's left would probably be family...........:-o...eeeeeeeeeewwww!


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Chew toys & dog mess are conclusive proof if a dog is present? guess i should tell "doody calls" to leave at least one fresh steamer in the frontward by the walkway lol... "Not seeing anything to indicate a dog present"? does "beware of dog" not communicate that? maybe "beware of dog and very clean and orderly homeowner"? What if I leave my door unlocked and someone wanders in and gets mauled? Who's fault is that? And who decides the value of a dog? If I log the hours of training and charge myself minimum wage would that change things?

Way too many dog-scared LEOs shooting to quickly these days it seems... Saw a vid a while back where a dog was shot bc they "had no choice", but it was already on a catch pole and understandably having a little freak out over the experience. 

With so many dogs in homes I'd have thought LE would have minimal training on interpreting a dogs behavior or how to deal with these kind of situations.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Hunter Allred said:


> What if I leave my door unlocked and someone wanders in and gets mauled? Who's fault is that? And who decides the value of a dog?


Dogs are property. value is based using market value in almost all jurisdictions.

If you leave your door unlocked and your dog(s) maul someone that wanders in, there is a chance that:

1. Some sort of criminal charges could be filed and that a judge or jury would find that you shouldered some of, if not all of the blame if you took it to trial.

2. There is also a much bigger chance that a judge and/or jury could also assign the blame to you, in the much more common civil lawsuit, if one was filed and you chose to fight it and not settle out of court..


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

If they kick my door in, what then?

And I understand about market value, but with dogs being so wildly variable in price ("super executive level Z sultan protection trained - only $96k!"), who gets to assess? Artists pay themselves a wage based on skill, reputation, and account for consumables when pricing their art. Should be the same for a trained dog

I know it's no longer legally sound, but I believe if someone is on my property uninvited and unwelcome, whatever happens should be all on them. I should need to provide warning other than "this is private property". It's not even clear if its wise to put warning signs on my dog trailer... Screwed either way


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