# Training, Evaluation and Certification



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I'm taking a few days off, going to travel some and will visit the land of cheese heads for a short time (does it snow there in October). I think my visa is in order to travel north of the Mason Dixon. Then I start my explosives dog training and evaluation. I bring each explosives detector in (we have 11) and work with them for a minimum of one week and conduct the annual certification. I am retiring one, an 11 year old Mal that is having a spine problem. I still say it's because he rides in a darn SUV. That will keep me pretty busy and leave me only one more training class for 2011. I have a new handler assigned to an already trained and working Bloodhound. That isn't hard work, just time consuming. Well in truth, it does get harder to run the more realistic tracks, ha ha. I'll find me a young Trooper for that portion. And that is life in the big city.

DFrost


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

David Frost said:


> I am retiring one, an 11 year old Mal that is having a spine problem. I still say it's because he rides in a darn SUV.
> 
> DFrost


Is that some kind of joke?


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

I spent a few months in wautoma and you hear people say that people up north are rude and hard to deal with but everyone I come in contact with up there were just the nicest people you could ask for. Only thing that was between there and here was the snow and the accents.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Is that some kind of joke?


No it isn't a joke. My data is anecdotal at best, but I think getting in and out of an SUV wears on a dog a lot more than getting in and out of a regular cruiser. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Thomas Jones said:


> I spent a few months in wautoma and you hear people say that people up north are rude and hard to deal with but everyone I come in contact with up there were just the nicest people you could ask for. Only thing that was between there and here was the snow and the accents.


Actually, I spent a week there last year. I too found the people very friendly. I found the country pretty and interesting. I loved the farms. Went to a pretty large Amish community and enjoyed it as well. It is different than the south, but interesting. I want to get in and out before the cold and snow hits, ha ha. I've seen those Green Bay games on TV in the winter. 

DFrost


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

The snow tripped me out. Like 10 inches in a few hours. My biggest thing though was slipping. I walked outside the first day, hit the ice and slipped, tried to get up and couldn't, ended up just crawling about 15 ft to the truck lol. Its different up there though. I could put on a long sleeve shirt and a jacket and be fine up there but the same temperature down here I'd have to have 3 shirts on, a jacket, and a hat. The snow up there is also very fine almost powder like but when it snows down here its like shaved ice. There was a good steakhouse there. The silver bull I think. We also went fishing at that lake up there


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

David Frost said:


> No it isn't a joke. My data is anecdotal at best, but I think getting in and out of an SUV wears on a dog a lot more than getting in and out of a regular cruiser.
> 
> DFrost


AHHH, I see, I thought you meant something about the actual "riding" in the SUV, not the entry or exit. I couldn't figure it out and thought I missed a joke from another thread or something

My dog is screwed if the hight of entering and exiting and SUV is bad for a malinois, that is the least of the trauma to her spine. Eleven seems a good long career for a working dog. Hope the dog isn't in too much pain though...it was horrible when my Toller had neck issues a while back, and I am sure they will crop up again.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

it COULD snow in Oct david, but if you hurry along a little (hard concept for those who live south of the M/D line i know), you could miss it. go NORTH! gorgeous country, or at least Baraboo to the kettle morraine country. there's some bar called the "dew drop inn" somewhere between there and chicago that's kind of quaint, lol 

and if you want to come west, well, i know the BEST coffee and pie place in NW iowa/NE nebraska-you're always welcome!!

OMG--what about Roger???!! can he retrieve pheasant? you might want to bring him along....


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

ha ha, I don't know about Roger and pheasant, he does like to chase things. My son stays at the house when we are gone, it's closer to where he works than where he lives, ha ha. Plus he keeps care of the cats, yes I have two, and of course Roger. Who is asleep in my easy chair as we speak. He hid the Sunday paper on me this week, first time he's done that in quite a while. He eventually brought it too me. I think he thought it was some kind of game. ha ha. I also think 
If I am ever in NW Iowa or NE Nebraska, I'll be sure and holler. I do like pie and coffee.
DFrost


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

High is 56-73 low 38-58 in wautoma. I still. Had the app on my phone. 40% chance of Tstorms the second day


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## Jim Duncan (Jan 19, 2009)

David,
I've noticed the same thing with our dogs and handlers with SUV's. We have switched to all patrol cars and only have one Excursion left as a spare car. My personal observation is that the 4' or so jump into the SUV then the short stop coupled with the jump out wears on the dog. Do this 10 or 15 times a day, 5 days a week for years and my ancedotal research seems to also suggest a correlation. I've noticed several of our dogs with spinal injuries as they get older. It could be completely coincendental but the years of laying in the car between calls then jumping out cold and jumping back after a narcotics search or patrol call add up. 

We can't pursue in an SUV and IME nothing makes a better off road vehicle than a Crown Vic anyway (except a rental car). So we have gone to all Sedans.

Jim


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

my crown vic retired at 350000+ miles about a month ago. Ike loved the back seat, it was big enough for him (unlike the back seat in the blazer i now have), easy in and out.

my only problem with the car was it liked to go FAST and the cruise control didn't work, lol.


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

My POV vehicle for my SAR dogs is a minivan, and even though the back is relatively low, I still put out a ramp for my dogs. I get laughed at some, but I dont care. As often as they are in and out of it, having that ramp takes a lot of stress off their joints. Worth the laughter I say.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I want this spine thing to have its own thread...I will start one, don't want to mess up David's thread.








ETA
Jennifer's thread is at http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f25/suvs-back-issues-21756/


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Had a great time in WI. It really is a pretty state and yes I did buy some cheese. I like a good cheddar and Longhorn. Never was asked for a passport, so much for homeland security. I guess they've forgotten about the war of northern aggression. A few people did question me about my accent. I told them I was from Southern Canada. ha ha Back to work on October 10. If the weather stays as nice as it is, I'll be riding some and just enjoying a few more days off.

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Had a great time in WI. It really is a pretty state and yes I did buy some cheese. I like a good cheddar and Longhorn. Never was asked for a passport, so much for homeland security. I guess they've forgotten about the war of northern aggression. A few people did question me about my accent. I told them I was from Southern Canada. ha ha Back to work on October 10. If the weather stays as nice as it is, I'll be riding some and just enjoying a few more days off.
> 
> DFrost



I love very sharp very aged cheddar. As good as many California cheeses are, I have not found sharp California cheddar to compare with Vermont or Wisconsin products.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Had a great time in WI. It really is a pretty state and yes I did buy some cheese. I like a good cheddar and Longhorn. Never was asked for a passport, so much for homeland security. I guess they've forgotten about the war of northern aggression. A few people did question me about my accent. I told them I was from Southern Canada. ha ha Back to work on October 10. If the weather stays as nice as it is, I'll be riding some and just enjoying a few more days off.
> 
> DFrost


you are SH!TTING me--they BELIEVED the "from southern CD" stuff????? geez--take the long way home thru NE and we (should) know you're from "the south", but won't hold it against ya, LOL  

you've got time to come this way--remember really good pie and coffee..

and it's a GORGEOUS state (nothing to do with my growing up in it of course)!:smile:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Finished the first of three EDD dogs Friday (10/14). One of the handlers had been off for over 4 months due to shoulder surgery. I was surprised at how well the dog worked, but a bit disappointed at the dog's weight. She was a blimp. I told him to reduce her feed by 25% and send me her weight at the end of every week. The 20 minute searches really took their toll on her. No dogs coming in this week due to special assignments, but I start the process over the following week with a new group. Can't believe this year is almost over. I'm doing two more groups of EDD's then training a new handler on the bloodhound and this year will be done. 

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Finished the first of three EDD dogs Friday (10/14). One of the handlers had been off for over 4 months due to shoulder surgery. I was surprised at how well the dog worked, but a bit disappointed at the dog's weight. She was a blimp. I told him to reduce her feed by 25% and send me her weight at the end of every week. The 20 minute searches really took their toll on her. No dogs coming in this week due to special assignments, but I start the process over the following week with a new group. Can't believe this year is almost over. I'm doing two more groups of EDD's then training a new handler on the bloodhound and this year will be done.
> 
> DFrost


Oh, that poor dog. Boy, I hate to see dogs with such a strain on their hips, spine, and all joints.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

one of my personal pet peeves (haha) is overweight dogs. we (my baby girl and i) were going downstairs in the county courthouse and met a deputy with his GSD coming up. i said "you're kinda fat aren't you?" to the dog, the deputy thought i was talking about him (which i could have been, lol), said "that's not a very nice thing to say" and my BG told him "she was talking about your dog".

my "fat-bottomed girl" Gracie, even now that she's slimmed down, has hip/hind end issues which are getting worse with age. why start early? and Gracie's 9 now. but still....

i


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I'm in the office most of the week. Lots of paperwork (my least favorite thing to do) to catch up on. I am going to drive to a kennel Wednesday and look at a couple of dogs. I've bought a couple of dogs from this kennel and am really pleased. I'm buying one more from them for EDD training, it will be a patrol/bomb. That gives me a chance to be out of the office so I don't have to spend all week there. ha ha. 

The handler of the overweight dog had an appointment with his vet today. He called after the appointment. The dog weighed 84. Her working weight should around 62 (the vet and I agree on that). The vet placed her on a prescription diet food. I'm not all that much in favor of the food, but I'll see how it works. the handler has to call me every Monday and give me the dogs weight. He has to see the vet again in 2 weeks. I know it's not all his fault, he was out for a long time after surgery, but it still gripes me at the size of this dog. I'm still surprised at how well she did during the week. Oh well, maybe in a couple of months she'll even be feeling better. 

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> The vet placed her on a prescription diet food. I'm not all that much in favor of the food ....
> 
> DFrost


Neither am I. I'm in favor of a high-quality diet in reduced amounts. JMHO!

But at least attention is being paid, and her weight is being monitored. 

22 extra pounds on a dog is terrible. :sad:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David said;
" The vet placed her on a prescription diet food."

I've never really understood that. Whatever happened to the owner cutting back on food and raising the exercise level. 
Lack of being responsible for ones own actions? :-k


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> David said;
> " The vet placed her on a prescription diet food."
> 
> I've never really understood that. Whatever happened to the owner cutting back on food and raising the exercise level.
> Lack of being responsible for ones own actions? :-k


yep--those "big brown eyes" never work on me (and Gracie Mae has some big brown ones  ). you cut back on intake and increase excercise. no table scraps--EVER. use a meal or part of it for marker/tracking training. i would truly hate to see what the "prescription diet food" has in it. ick.

keep us posted on how that works--22 POUNDS overweight? poor dog.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob, I agree. It's still a working dog and I want to keep it working and healthy. As I had said, it is the handler's fault it got that bad, but there were mitigating circumstances. The dog is on special assignment tomorrow, and it will be a grueling day for her, but it's good. With that much weight loss, I did want it under veterinarian care. The vet placed the dog on one of the more notorius prescription diets. I've often said I wouldn't feed it to a dead goat, but in this case, and only for a short time, I'll keep my mouth mostly closed. 

DFrost


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

ann schnerre said:


> yep--those "big brown eyes" never work on me


I hope not Ann. Nebraska is a lonely place I hear LMFAO


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

nah, timothy, it's not "lonely", it just doesn't have the concentration of a$$holes that you guys back east have. rather refreshing that the closest one to me is 2 miles away, lol.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

ann schnerre said:


> nah, timothy, it's not "lonely", it just doesn't have the concentration of a$$holes that you guys back east have. rather refreshing that the closest one to me is 2 miles away, lol.


Chuckle chuckle


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Hopefully, one of my handlers will be picking up his new dog today. It's a 2 year old Dutchie. I'm pretty high on this dog and hope to have a quick turn-around with it. He'll pick it up and take it to the vet for physical and xrays. 

DFrost


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Northerners favorite form of entertainment is watching people from down south try to walk on ice/snow. Well, maybe the second favorite form of entertainment, after drinking. So I guess drinking while watching people from down south walking on the ice would number one...

Third would be drinking while watching people play football in the ice/snow...

Running a track is a whole 'nother ball game.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

A southern form of entertainment is watching Yan ---- uhhh northerners go back north. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Finishing up the second group of EDD's this week. I've been pleasantly surprised actually. My only comment to them, so far, has been they need to do some longer scenarios, 30 minute variety. We've been through all the odors and I'm pleased with what I've seen there. A week of admin next week, then finish up the last 4 dogs the following week. I'm kind of anxious to work with that bloodhound, it's always kind of a relaxing week. ha ha.

DFrost


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ann schnerre said:


> nah, timothy, it's not "lonely", it just doesn't have the concentration of a$$holes that you guys back east have. rather refreshing that the closest one to me is 2 miles away, lol.


the closest one to me is typing this now , and he even just drank MY coffee...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Finished the second group of EDD's only one group left. Next week is mostly admin, again. Then the following week I'll finish my last group of EDD's for the year. Then I can have some fun working with the bloodhound. I just had a PD/drug handler give up his dog, sure hated that. I will now have to work with the new handler to get them certified and working. Sure messes up schedules. Sometimes March of 2013 just can't here fast enough.

DFrost


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

David, maybe you already said but what is the training plan for the bloodhound?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

The hound is already trained. The plan is to teach the new handler how to read the dog. I'll do that beginning with short, relatively easy tracks and slowly increase the difficulty and length. It's more building confidence in the handler than training the dog. Adding a few visuals at strategic places and then slowly wean him off of them, the handler begins to "see" exactly what is going on. It's fun actually. I'm not physically able to work with the track team, but I can still lay the track. Tracking was always my favorite venue with working dogs. I really enjoy it. 

DFrost


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> the closest one to me is typing this now , and he even just drank MY coffee...


HATE it when they do that [-(


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

David Frost said:


> The hound is already trained. The plan is to teach the new handler how to read the dog. I'll do that beginning with short, relatively easy tracks and slowly increase the difficulty and length. It's more building confidence in the handler than training the dog. Adding a few visuals at strategic places and then slowly wean him off of them, the handler begins to "see" exactly what is going on. It's fun actually. I'm not physically able to work with the track team, but I can still lay the track. Tracking was always my favorite venue with working dogs. I really enjoy it.
> 
> DFrost


This would be very interesting to watch and follow.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> This would be very interesting to watch and follow.


Well, get your patootie down here. I can use the young legs. ha ha. While we are in the beginning stages I hope to run a minimum of 4 tracks per day. At that stage though, they will be in the half-mile range. When we get to longer tracks, we'll reduce that to one in the morning and depending on the length, one in the p.m. The new handler (like the original handler) is a young, buff, Tactical Squad member. They all carry defibrilators (sp?) in their vehicles and remind me often. ha ha. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I evaluated a German Shorthair today. I really liked the dog. I trained one back in the early 70's for explosives, this one will be a drug dog. A stout, 1.5 year old male. A very social dog but very driven and business like when working. I like him, I think he'll be fun. He's AKC registered dog. I had him xrayed, given a physical etc, and he's ready to go. He's replacing a Chesepeke Bay, that has just gotten to old. Besides being a mean bitch. ha ha. 

DFrost


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i've always liked the look of a GSP. my sister's FIL hunts with them. and Chessies-well, we had a couple Chessie client-dogs, and they always gave a vibe that said "i'll behave, but don't even LOOK at me cross-eyed or i might change my mind". 

good luck with your new boy--sounds good!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Every GSP I've ever met was a keeper.
Love the Chessies also. Growing up they were called the "Dobermans of the duck dog world". Of course that was back when a good Dobe wasn't hard to find.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

This is one of the few dogs I've every purchased that I received an AKC pedigree. He has a lot of champions in it's blood line. he's from hunting stock. Don't really care all that much. He was selected for his specific potential. 

DFrost


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

so what's the backstory? if he's so good and has such a nice ped, why is he being sold to LE?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I always ask that question. The usual answer is; I just wanted to do something for law enforcement. While I don't necessarily believe that, I pay for the physical and xrays and do the behavior test myself. So whatever the reason, I'm happy as a young teen couple after the prom with a negative prego test, ha ha.

DFrost


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

well, let's not get TOO overexcited david. but yeah--if it works, it works, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. i get ya


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Finished my last set of EDD evals. One handler has to be rescheduled. He had a knee reconstructed and will be off for some time. He can't return until he's completed a fitness-for-duty-exam. My new ass't trainer has really taken up with the dog and has worked it on some EDD scenarios. Had a meeting to set my 2012 training schedule. I reminded them 4 times during the meeting that this was my last year. Didn't need to do that, but I took some pleasure in it. ha ha. I've got three trained dogs going on trained handlers. That doesn't take long (4 weeks) and should be completed in January. I'll do a patrol dog class starting late February. I'll do the annual patrol dog certifiction while the class is in session. I use the current handlers as decoys etc. Annual drug dog certification in May and June. No class in July and August, then either a bomb or drug class (depending on mission necessity at the time) in late September. We had a discussion about how many bomb dogs we need active. We have 9. My response was; "as we sit here in this meeting we have about 7 too many. Your phone could ring in the next 5 minutes and three times as many won't be enough." So I'll let them make that deciscion. Pays the same to me. ha ha. Also had one very important meeting this month. I signed up for Social Security and Medicare. I'm not going to draw my SS yet, I'll wait til January of 2013, I'll be 66 and I can draw full retirement without affecting my other pay. I needed to sign up for medicare to keep Tricare for Life. That is the military hosptial benefits for retired military. Until my wife reaches Medicare age, I'll keep my State Blue Cross/Blue Shield. 

DFrost


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