# Orthopedic Examination



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

http://www.vinterdans.com/apps/videos/videos/show/10715837-sled-dog-examination-by-tim-hunt-?ref=nf

interesting link - while this is being done on a sleddog it might be of interest to others with athletic dogs. We've had Dr. Hunt as a speaker at symposiums and he is a really good source of info.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Very interesting but I think he'd be in deep shit if he tried standing over a lot of working line GSDs, Mals, Dutchies, etc like that. ;-)
I consider both my dogs "social" but that would be pushing it. I worked hard on the UD stand for exam in AKC OB with Thunder and it's nothing as "invasive" as that.
Terrasita was one of the first that stood over Thunder to examine him and she got one hell of a WTF look from him. He loves her to pieces..now. :lol:


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

EXCELLENT video ... fwiw, i hardly ever meet an owner that actually checks their dog over on a routine basis and it is simple and quick once a decent technique and set routine are made a habit.....where you want to stand and/or straddle is all a matter of conditioning and starting early in life.....sure there are some dogs that can't be straddled and that's usually not the only handling position they don't like .... if you can stroke em and spank em while on a bite they should have no trouble standing motionless for a simple exam 
- unfortunately i've seen a lot of dogs that had to be knocked out just to get vet checks and i add that to my "irresponsible ownership" category
- working on one of those cases right now (gsd/pet but not show line).....4-5 vet "visits" a week and it's been slow progress :-(


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I think the idea of the tape is to show the owner how to do a quick exam on their own dogs. Sled dogs are easy as they are so used to being handled and examined - I would be leary of doing this on alot of peoples pet dogs even- :lol:


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Good video...I'm guessing the audience was for mushers? It bears repeating...always check the feet first. Always. They say in horses that 90% of lameness is in the foot. Not sure if that's true in dogs, but not a bad thing to remember.


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Yes Dr.Tim Hunt is a musher himself and I think this was fraom a Sled Dog Seminar somewhere so the audience is mushers - we have had other orthopedic specialists for speakers and they really were a good resource of info for anyone involved in active pursuits with dogs.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I would not call that a simple exam for a dog to tolerate from a stranger, nor would I call an owner of a "working" dog that would not tolerate that, irresponsible.

If that is the standard, I would guess over 80% of the owners of the dogs on here are irresponsible.


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

For sleddogs vet checks are mandatory in alot of races - so they are used to getting handled this way by strangers. I realize alot of people on here have dogs that might not tolerate that quite so easily.

I custom fit alot of dogs for harnesses and other equipment - if it's anything other than a sled dog I alot of the time I have the owner hold the dogs head or do the measurement under my directions. working type dogs are way less scary than fitting slipper dogs, schiztu whatever, poodly, cockapoo etc for anything as the little bastards are evil. I'd walk a mile to avoid a cocker spaniel.....
"can you fit my chow chow for a harness?".....=;


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> For sleddogs vet checks are mandatory in alot of races - so they are used to getting handled this way by strangers. I realize alot of people on here have dogs that might not tolerate that quite so easily.
> 
> I custom fit alot of dogs for harnesses and other equipment - if it's anything other than a sled dog I alot of the time I have the owner hold the dogs head or do the measurement under my directions. working type dogs are way less scary than fitting slipper dogs, schiztu whatever, poodly, cockapoo etc for anything as the little bastards are evil. I'd walk a mile to avoid a cocker spaniel.....
> "can you fit my chow chow for a harness?".....=;


I understand that...but what % of dogs here are sled dogs...
I was referring to Rick's statements.

I do appreciate the post, I have duplicated the exam with my own dog, but I doubt the dog would allow someone else to do that with her..(could be wrong, she is very friendly in most situations...) but I dont feel I am an irresponsible dog owner if my dog does not tolerate that from a stranger, just like I do not feel I am irresponsible for taking the dog biking, or using a flexi...  or responding to a threat from an aggressive dog, regardless of size...

My concern is the standing over, the complete hands on manipulations...and IF there was any pain involved...most types of working dogs would not fair well...


----------



## Shawndra Drury (Jun 28, 2010)

I have sled dogs. Don't use 'em for mushing (we do PP, go figure), but useful to see the video since I can't afford xrays to see what I'm working with and they are both rescues.
Neither of them would be okay with a stranger doing that though.


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

The idea is that he is showing you how to do a very basic eval on your own dog. Most vets around here are not very thorough at ortho exams at all. I have a dog also that would not take very well to straddling by a stranger...


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> The idea is that he is showing you how to do a very basic eval on your own dog. Most vets around here are not very thorough at ortho exams at all. I have a dog also that would not take very well to straddling by a stranger...


again I appreciate the info and have done it...my response was directed towards Rick's input...


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

for Joby....
i saw the video and understand who the target audience was and how it could be useful for an owner regardless of the position of the person checking the limbs

read my post as it was WRITTEN b4 you add more to it that wasn't there and come up with a percentage 
....i do tend to use the words IRRESPONSIBLE OWNER quite a lot, because it is a pet peeve of mine and i think you are smart enuff to know i probably wasn't trying to infer that 80% of this forum were irresponsible because their dogs couldn't be straddled by a vet for an ortho check 
,,,,but it often puts the reader in defense when they read the words 

if u have found good ways to use a flexi i'm all ears ... i am anti flexi, but open to new ways to use anything 

for Shawndra and anyone else, imo if you're a responsible dog owner, your vet shouldn't be a "stranger" 
....maybe i should start a thread "should working dog owners train their dogs to handle vet visits without any conflict ?"  ....nah 

my post as written still stands....there ARE dogs who have to be knocked out to get a vet check, just as there are some vets who won't see a dog without muzzling them ... fwiw, MANY of our mwd's don't even need to be muzzled when they see our current army vet 

- i feel many owners are just too lazy to take the time to condition their dogs for "conflict free" vet visits, but i'm getting paid to do it now with a dog so i'm happy about it sometimes 

and in my experience, evil little dogs are trained to be that way by irresponsible owners


----------



## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks for sharing! Informative video. Took my Mal to a physical therapist to figure out why he was limping. She pretty much ran through the same types of things (wasn't standing over him that way though), and I was very happy I had a muzzle on him.  

She is used to working with mostly obedience, fly ball, and agility dogs. She isn't used to having to muzzle a dog to do these types of things, and it seemed a bit disconcerting to her. I'm sure some of the other dog owners watching us must have thought I owned some kind of monster dog. LOL

In defense of my dog, however, he was in pain during some of these positions and let us know very clearly what was hurting him when she manipulated that area of his body. It was very evident when she hit the spot that was bothering him.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Erica
was it a canine PT ? i didn't even know they existed !
we're not as advanced over here, but Ja vets do seem to use acupuncture a lot


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> The idea is that he is showing you how to do a very basic eval on your own dog. Most vets around here are not very thorough at ortho exams at all. I have a dog also that would not take very well to straddling by a stranger...



Still excellent info for the owner doing the exam! I'm sure going to give it a going over with my guys! :wink:


----------



## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

rick smith said:


> Erica
> was it a canine PT ? i didn't even know they existed !
> we're not as advanced over here, but Ja vets do seem to use acupuncture a lot


Yes! A canine physical therapist. Although she's not used to evaluating dogs like my Malinois, she's excellent. I went to a regular vet and two orthopedic specialists who couldn't diagnose the problem. In less than 10 minutes she figured it out... strained iliopsoas (groin) muscles. My dog had been dealing with on and off lameness for months, and everybody kept telling me it was Pano.

I heard this is one of the best canine rehabilitation/physical therapy schools in the USA. This is where my canine PT studied. To get into programs such as this, you have to already be a vet, vet technician, or human physical therapist.

http://www.canineequinerehab.com/

(If they had a program such as this when I was an undergrad, this is what I would have done for a career!)


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i think one of the best things about the vid was showing how to hold a leg properly to isolate the different areas you want to check
most dog have no problems with just picking up a back paw to check a paw, but tend to stiffen up when you pick up the whole leg to check the hip.....once they get used to the hip check they relax quicker and you can test more range of motion


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Erica
Tx a lot for the link ... even opens in Japanese so i can pass it on over here 

we have a university close by that is the "next step" up when the vets hit a wall ... but VERY expensive unless you can luck out and fall in to a "research" project


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Erica Boling said:


> I heard this is one of the canine best physical therapy schools in the USA. This is where my canine PT studied. To get into programs such as this, you have to already be a vet, vet technician, or human physical therapist.
> 
> http://www.canineequinerehab.com/
> 
> (If they had a program such as this when I was an undergrad, this is what I would have done for a career!)


Assuming I make enough money to pay for it in the next few months, that's where I'll be doing my rehab training. I spent 4 weeks down there in the spring before I graduated (2 in nutrition, 2 in rehab) and really enjoyed it. Nice folks down there for sure! They definitely see more pet people (dogs after orthopaedic and neurosurgeries), but I've heard from the director that they are planning on doing more with performance dogs.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Thanks for the vid, I do a lot of the same things with my dogs when trying to find the source of lameness, but it's nice to see someone else doing it and explaining what the expected range of motion should be, I've always just been looking for a reaction, didn't know really what "normal" is.

It makes sense he'd straddle the dogs, but this could be done just as easily without straddling them if they objected. All my dogs will allow this type of "going over", because frankly I don't ask for their opinion. Some took some training to get to that point, but they will do it now. It helps, considering they also see the chiropractor as needed, and that does include some "hovering" for the adjustments.


----------

