# How Much Does the Melodrama Cost Us?



## David Ruby

While it can be mildly amusing at times, how much does the bickering, namecalling, and bashing cost us? Just wondering if Mods or anybody else has a feel for if we lose valuable members that could contribute real knowledge by excessive squabbling or tirades driving them off, and if so to what extent. That that there is no place for cutting loose once in a while, but I do wonder if too much just grates on people that might actually have something to contribute or genuine questions to ask that just leave because of the atmosphere.

-Cheers


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You work in a cubicle don't you ?

The melodrama is what brings people ad keeps them. Just like your dumb ass, they cannot stop looking at it. You want to control it, because of your insecurities. You want people to think about it your way because of the helplessness you feel. 

It is also that personality that chooses stoooooooopid ****ing bulldogs.

I cannot personally wait till I get to meet you and make fun of you in person for such a STUUUUUUUUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPID post.


Mods! Mods! I need to have a "serious" talk with you. 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAA


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## David Ruby

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You work in a cubicle don't you ?
> 
> The melodrama is what brings people ad keeps them. Just like your dumb ass, they cannot stop looking at it. You want to control it, because of your insecurities. You want people to think about it your way because of the helplessness you feel.


I don't want to control it, just think it's something to keep in mind. Really, I find the melodrama tedious, but you're free to believe what you want. As for my helplessness, thanks Dr. Jeff. This free psycho-analysis is great. Actually, I was wondering if you'd be the first to reply. I should have made a bet on it.



> It is also that personality that chooses stoooooooopid ****ing bulldogs.


Perhaps. However, for somebody as helpless and insecure, when was the last time this frazzled nervebag has lashed out at you or really taken a pot shot at you?



> I cannot personally wait till I get to meet you and make fun of you in person for such a STUUUUUUUUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPID post.


Should be fun. I'm married though. I get poked fun of a lot.  Although, I have never had anybody, ever, make fun of me and start it with "that post you made on the message board was soooooo stupid."

And I can't wait to title a dog so I can get that Johnny Walker and trophy with a picture of you begging for forgiveness. \\/ Someday, maybe . . .



> Mods! Mods! I need to have a "serious" talk with you.
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAA


:?:

-Cheers


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## Carol Boche

Ignore him David....

Pppbblllllttttttt @ Jeff.....


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: I find the melodrama tedious

Then stay out of the threads that make you all butthurt. You do want to control it, otherwise you would not have written the post in the first place. Denial is hard for some people.

Quote: I have never had anybody, ever, make fun of me and start it with "that post you made on the message board was soooooo stupid."

Get ready then, I am going to be the first !

Quote: 
And I can't wait to title a dog so I can get that Johnny Walker and trophy with a picture of you begging for forgiveness. Someday, maybe . . .

Stop writing control freak posts, stop reading these OH SO PAINFUL posts that you hate to love so much, and start training your dog. You have a better chance that way.


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## Connie Sutherland

Carol Boche said:


> Ignore him David.... ...



Really. What in the world would make Jeff think that any of that involved him?


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## Christopher Smith

David Ruby said:


> While it can be mildly amusing at times, how much does the bickering, namecalling, and bashing cost us? Just wondering if Mods or anybody else has a feel for if we lose valuable members that could contribute real knowledge by excessive squabbling or tirades driving them off, and if so to what extent. That that there is no place for cutting loose once in a while, but I do wonder if too much just grates on people that might actually have something to contribute or genuine questions to ask that just leave because of the atmosphere.
> 
> -Cheers


I think it cost newbies that can't or don't get out to clubs and trials a lot. I see a lot of people that are new to dog stuff that are really interested in the sport and are trying to reach out for information and conformation that there are other people in the world that are as obsessed with dogs as they are. This is one of their few outlets and they have to wade through bushels of bullshit to find a small grain of positivity. 

But on this board there are vampires. The internet is their darkness. These creature feed on negativity and discord. They can't build anything. They can't build a dog. They can't build club to train or trial the dog. They can't build up other people to help them be successful. Dog sport is not a place for them to play with their dogs and enjoy the camaraderie of others that do the same. This is their feeding ground. All they can do is suck energy and feed on the work and enthusiasm of others.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
Really. What in the world would make Jeff think that any of that involved him?

You need to go back and read it again.


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## David Ruby

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> Really. What in the world would make Jeff think that any of that involved him?
> 
> You need to go back and read it again.


I did not mention you until you replied. Apparently, I think about you less than you might think. :razz:

-Cheers


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: I see a lot of people that are new to dog stuff that are really interested in the sport and are trying to reach out for information and conformation that there are other people in the world that are as obsessed with dogs as they are. This is one of their few outlets and they have to wade through bushels of bullshit to find a small grain of positivity. 

Yes, this way they can start off thinking it is ok to have your dog cringing on the track. At least I think the shit is funny, your need to be taken seriously, amuses me the most. It is this need that causes you to make your dog cringe, as how people perceive you is more important than the dog.

Sadly, there is doubt that people do take you seriously Smith. Maybe you change your name to Jones. That should do it. Everyone likes Jones.


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## Margaret Wheeler

I think the round of viruses we had a while back cost us a lot more than anything else.

I'm acquiring a taste for melodrama lol. While I detest whiney-ass threads bemoaning "how my dog got robbed by this judge," I do appreciate heartfelt go rounds on dog politics. 

People take their working dogs seriously and so club wars and schisms never amount to much unless there are some significant issues at stake. A lot of the people who have serious, legitimate concerns about dogs and dog organizations aren't necessarily interested in or able to express themselves in the manner that a debating coach would approve, but I wouldn't want them to feel like they can't voice an opinion. 

And besides David, the guy who starts a thread like this one shouldn't be starting another one that bemoans shenanigans and flame wars. You aren't really so innocent that you don't see why you haven't gotten any responses there are you? Even a total noob like me knows that the history of that disagreement is made up of some very bloody battles, and I think you've been around the whole thing for a lot longer than I have. 

What I'm hoping for is that this board continues to be a place where people can learn about all sorts of things about working dogs and working dog organizations. I'm not super picky about how that's accomplished.


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## David Ruby

Christopher Smith said:


> I think it cost newbies that can't or don't get out to clubs and trials a lot. I see a lot of people that are new to dog stuff that are really interested in the sport and are trying to reach out for information and conformation that there are other people in the world that are as obsessed with dogs as they are. This is one of their few outlets and they have to wade through bushels of bullshit to find a small grain of positivity.


All joking aside, that is really what I think is true and unfortunate. I think when we start totally going off on people and turning it to fat jokes and making it like a middle school cafeteria (and no, this is not just one person, but it happens from time to time), it does sort of detract from things. Then I look at people that have signed up and never post, like Michael Ellis for instance, and people that I know who know a ton more than me (sure, scant praise, but still, legitimately accomplished & respected people) that I wish would contribute but basically say the forums have too much crap.

I ask questions because this stuff interests me, and I'm not particularly bothered if somebody blows up at me. However, I do think to some extent people should be sort of self-aware. There is a difference between being blunt a/o having a good jab at somebody, and just being a total unrelenting douche about something.

-Cheers


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## Christopher Smith

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I see a lot of people that are new to dog stuff that are really interested in the sport and are trying to reach out for information and conformation that there are other people in the world that are as obsessed with dogs as they are. This is one of their few outlets and they have to wade through bushels of bullshit to find a small grain of positivity.
> 
> Yes, this way they can start off thinking it is ok to have your dog cringing on the track. At least I think the shit is funny, your need to be taken seriously, amuses me the most. It is this need that causes you to make your dog cringe, as how people perceive you is more important than the dog.
> 
> Sadly, there is doubt that people do take you seriously Smith. Maybe you change your name to Jones. That should do it. Everyone likes Jones.


Sluuuurp.....Sluuuuurp....Sluuurp..... Suck it down down Jeff. Take it all down. Try not to gag....

Are you talking about this video again? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWFh3LZ0Kk


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: All joking aside, that is really what I think is true and unfortunate.

Why didn't it work on a fruit and nutcake like you then ? You are not some huge dog person. Amazing your "concern" for the new people. 

Look into the control freak issue. You have it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Sluuuurp.....Sluuuuurp....Sluuurp..... Suck it down down Jeff. Take it all down. Try not to gag....

Jones, what are you talking about ? Do you and david talk like that in private to each other ? Is it your "code" ?

I can do this all day. You want a thread about melodrama, I can help.


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## Doug Zaga

*How Much Does the Jeff O-Suck Melodrama Cost Us?*

It keeps me entertained while sitting on my deck smoking an Oliva Series V Double Toro


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## David Ruby

Margaret Wheeler said:


> I think the round of viruses we had a while back cost us a lot more than anything else.
> 
> I'm acquiring a taste for melodrama lol. While I detest whiney-ass threads bemoaning "how my dog got robbed by this judge," I do appreciate heartfelt go rounds on dog politics.
> 
> People take their working dogs seriously and so club wars and schisms never amount to much unless there are some significant issues at stake. A lot of the people who have serious, legitimate concerns about dogs and dog organizations aren't necessarily interested in or able to express themselves in the manner that a debating coach would approve, but I wouldn't want them to feel like they can't voice an opinion.
> 
> And besides David, the guy who starts a thread like this one shouldn't be starting another one that bemoans shenanigans and flame wars. You aren't really so innocent that you don't see why you haven't gotten any responses there are you? Even a total noob like me knows that the history of that disagreement is made up of some very bloody battles, and I think you've been around the whole thing for a lot longer than I have.


That was a genuine question to get the ARF side of things to be frank (and yes, one that has been answered in PM's). I am sincerely not entirely aware about all the events that led up to the split, the timeline, or the bloody battles that led to it. All I have learned on that topic was some threads on the NARA site, some of which was directed to me after that thread was posted, and some PM's explaining in pretty straight-forward drama-free fashion. Asking for a drama-free history, or link to said drama-free discussion, is hardly bemoaning shenanigans. To that topic, read it again without thinking I was looking for drama. Something like that, where newbies like myself (and to FR, everything I've learned comes from a few videos and a few chats with people who never mention any of this stuff in the real world) are going to just frankly want the facts from both sides sans said bickering. Because, honestly, I do not see that helping promote things. I am sorry you felt that to be an explosive post, however since you brought it up that was not my intent.

If I read correctly, you just got a dog Bob S. imported from France and train. I only really found out there was a spirited split and the reason behind that within the past couple weeks or less. The closest FR club by me is three hours away and I've only started learning about the differences in FR rules and MR and the videos (largely in passing) since this summer. I'd say it's fair to presume you probably know more about this, and have been around the whole French Ring and the things surrounding said issues, far longer and in far greater depth than I have all things considered.



> What I'm hoping for is that this board continues to be a place where people can learn about all sorts of things about working dogs and working dog organizations. I'm not super picky about how that's accomplished.


-Cheers


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## Lee H Sternberg

*Re: How Much Does the Jeff O-Suck Melodrama Cost Us?*



Doug Zaga said:


> It keeps me entertained while sitting on my deck smoking an Oliva Series V Double Toro


Pretty cool. Melodrama in a thread about melodrama.


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## David Ruby

*Re: How Much Does the Jeff O-Suck Melodrama Cost Us?*



Lee H Sternberg said:


> Pretty cool. Melodrama in a thread about melodrama.


I know. The irony is downright palpable! :razz:

-Cheers


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## Doug Zaga

*How Much Does the Jeff O-Suck Melodrama Cost Us?*



Lee H Sternberg said:


> Pretty cool. Melodrama in a thread about melodrama.


Ok, I did my good deed for the day now I have to get back to work...:-#


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## Thomas Barriano

*Re: Attention and Energy Vampires*



Christopher Smith said:


> But on this board there are vampires. The internet is their darkness. These creature feed on negativity and discord. They can't build anything. They can't build a dog. They can't build club to train or trial the dog. They can't build up other people to help them be successful. Dog sport is not a place for them to play with their dogs and enjoy the camaraderie of others that do the same. This is their feeding ground. All they can do is suck energy and feed on the work and enthusiasm of others.


Christopher,

I think you're on to something, about the energy vampires, that feed on the enthusiasm of others. I think they also feed on attention, positive or negative. It's a waste of time arguing with them, cause they live on the internet and have all the time in the world, and you're just giving them attention . The most effective strategy is to just ignore them.


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## Lee H Sternberg

*Re: How Much Does the Jeff O-Suck Melodrama Cost Us?*



Doug Zaga said:


> Ok, I did my good deed for the day now I have to get back to work...:-#


Good job!! Enjoy the rest of your cigar!:-D


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## Margaret Wheeler

armchair flame warriors ftw :twisted:


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## Lee H Sternberg

Christopher Smith said:


> I think it cost newbies that can't or don't get out to clubs and trials a lot. I see a lot of people that are new to dog stuff that are really interested in the sport and are trying to reach out for information and conformation that there are other people in the world that are as obsessed with dogs as they are. This is one of their few outlets and they have to wade through bushels of bullshit to find a small grain of positivity.
> 
> But on this board there are vampires. The internet is their darkness. These creature feed on negativity and discord. They can't build anything. They can't build a dog. They can't build club to train or trial the dog. They can't build up other people to help them be successful. Dog sport is not a place for them to play with their dogs and enjoy the camaraderie of others that do the same. This is their feeding ground. All they can do is suck energy and feed on the work and enthusiasm of others.


Halloween is soon!


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## Ashley Campbell

I don't think it drives "newbies" away. I'm still pretty new to here, I've been here a year. One of my firsts posts I got the brunt of the force that is Jeff O. I'm still here obviously.

I have thick skin, I can take a little/lot of verbal beat-down. If they're going to get all whiney and butt-hurt over some less than tactful comments, then they need to turn off the computer and go hide in a corner so nobody can hurt their delicate sensibilities, ever.


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## Christopher Smith

*Re: Attention and Energy Vampires*



Thomas Barriano said:


> Christopher,
> 
> I think you're on to something, about the energy vampires, that feed on the enthusiasm of others. I think they also feed on attention, positive or negative. It's a waste of time arguing with them, cause they live on the internet and have all the time in the world, and you're just giving them attention . The most effective strategy is to just ignore them.


I don't think that energy vampires can be killed by a lack of attention. That, in and of itself, is a type of energy that they feast on. They use their vampirism to cause your inactivity, and they win. I think the way to kill them is to bring them into the light. The light burns away their necrotic vampire veneer and leaves their inner clown exposed.









Here is a great example of light http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6qU5ZAwimo


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## Jeff Oehlsen

It is just culling the shitters. How hard is that to understand ? LOL The little whiny crybabies are never going to trial their dogs, not going to go to seminars out of fear of looking stupid, but because they are human, they feel the need to do something, and so if they can buck up to the AWFUL AWFUL nightmare of a strong thread, maybe they can see it for what it is, or they can do like Ruby, and try and control what makes him uncomfortable by sticking up for "the new guy".

I hear that a lot, the invisible "highly offended" non existant people that help "fortify" their straw man arguement.


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## Christopher Smith

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Halloween is soon!


For some it's a lifestyle, not a holiday


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## Kat LaPlante

I like the melodrama, in fact jeffs posts are some of the ones I take more seriously than others at times. Even if you dont want the "melodrama" make sure to read between the lines as there is lots of good stuff hidden in between.

Here here, to the mention of new people like me not having an outlet other than this for dogs. The pet owners are really turned off at the mention of what gets me excited, i was denied a rescue and now I find myself to be a hermit about my dogs. The club is fun to go to and watch but its a far drive for a weekly visit to dovery little with my pup. So this, and all it's drama is all I have......untill Rook is a bit bigger anyway......oh ya and then this will be all I have again for my dutchie pup ........


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## Maren Bell Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Maybe you change your name to Jones. That should do it. Everyone likes Jones.


Woo hoo!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Poor smith wants to be a jones sooooo bad. Post more of my videos. I like to watch them. BRING ME TO THE LIGHT JONESY ! !


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## Christopher Smith

Hey Jeff, we found common ground!!! I love watching your videos too!


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## David Ruby

Ashley Campbell said:


> I don't think it drives "newbies" away. I'm still pretty new to here, I've been here a year. One of my firsts posts I got the brunt of the force that is Jeff O. I'm still here obviously.


Yeah but you're the woman who fought off a crazy Pit Bull with a 9mm in one hand and a curtain rod in the other all in your underwear. Don't take this the wrong way, because that was pretty awesome and more than a little hot. But you're hardly the norm.

-Cheers


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## Ashley Campbell

David Ruby said:


> Yeah but you're the woman who fought off a crazy Pit Bull with a 9mm in one hand and a curtain rod in the other all in your underwear. Don't take this the wrong way, because that was pretty awesome and more than a little hot. But you're hardly the norm.
> 
> -Cheers


That may be, but ya know what? Would you really want this forum full of whiny ass people who are going to give their opinion on something they know nothing about (sound familiar lately?) and then whine when someone tells them they're ****ing retarded?

Like Jeff said, it's weeding out the shitters. The all-talk-never going to do anything people. I think most people of they are horribly offended, are going to stay and lurk and not post, rather than just leave all together.

ETA:

This is my only forum. I used to be on a pet forum, and I notice a huge difference. A. pet forum, there were like 2 or 3 men on the whole thing, so if you think THIS is dramatic, try one of the major dog pet forums. It's like the ****ing Lifetime Channel over there.


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## David Ruby

Ashley Campbell said:


> That may be, but ya know what? Would you really want this forum full of whiny ass people who are going to give their opinion on something they know nothing about (sound familiar lately?) and then whine when someone tells them they're ****ing retarded?
> 
> Like Jeff said, it's weeding out the shitters. The all-talk-never going to do anything people. I think most people of they are horribly offended, are going to stay and lurk and not post, rather than just leave all together.


I guess the question is, is it weeding out people that are legitimately great or widely-known trainers? Like the Michael Ellis, Ivan B., Francis Metcalf, Leri Hansen, Howard Burgess, Butch Henderson, those types? Those are the types of people I'd _love_ to see posting on message boards. You miss a David Ruby post, no big deal. But if we are missing the input of those types of folk, that's kind of a bummer. Maybe that has nothing to do with thy those guys don't post much if at all. Largely, that's the kind of stuff I primarily care about missing out on, people like that who might be a pretty significant asset to these sorts of forums.

That and not all the people who leave or just don't bother with the boards are all-talk people. Not all of them are big names, but they are fairly accomplished a/o professional dog trainers that just seem to find the griping pretty pointless. Even the newbies who maybe should have thicker skins, I think jumping all over them might not make them horribly offended so much as make them think we're all a-holes. At that point, what's their incentive to stick around?

As for Jeff's "weeding out the $#!%ers," considering his opinion of me you have to kind of question how well that theory's holding out.



> ETA:
> 
> This is my only forum. I used to be on a pet forum, and I notice a huge difference. A. pet forum, there were like 2 or 3 men on the whole thing, so if you think THIS is dramatic, try one of the major dog pet forums. It's like the ****ing Lifetime Channel over there.


No thanks.

-Cheers


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Hey Jeff, we found common ground!!! I love watching your videos too!

LOL like suddenly I was looking for common ground with you. You crack me up.


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## Chris Daleo

So what it does for me as a newbie is amuse me. It also makes me glad I am in an NVBK Belgian Ring club even though I will likely have to travel to Belgium to compete. Funny enough, this is nothing compared to Rottweiler world, the AKC, ARC, USRC, ARV schisms, splits, duplicitous, backstabbing, shady BS yadda yadda, yadda, you guys are light years behind them on sheer egos, so no worries yet. If anyone would like the specifics of my time in Rott world, I'd be happy to provde them to you as well on this forum, I have nothing to hide from. Life is too short, I don't give a F about anything but my dog and having fun, but I have no monetary investment here as some do, whether breeders, trainers, equipment sales; all guarding their little fiefdoms. I say train your dog, then proof your dog under an impartial, unbiased judge and take the score like a man/woman. Quite honestly I don't know anyone on this forum from Adam, but responses to the few posts I have made have ranged from knowledgable/borderline know it all, to legitimate help. Wourld it discourage me from joining a FR club either in NARA or ARF, I doubt it. Maybe I'd join a MR club. It takes all kinds. I like Jeff O's posts as he calls a spade a spade and some don't like that. I've seen videos posted here and the responses were 50% saw defense & 50% saw avoidance. You see what you want. I may post a video working my pup someday and Jeff or someone else could shit all over me and I wouldn't take it personally, it's his nature. I don't know the reasons behind the schism in FR, but in war the first casualty is truth. Not picking one instance in particular, but I did see some post about an official who was judging a dog they co-owned, if I recall correctly. Even if it wasn't in any by-laws, and they believed wholeheartedly they could be impartial, as a matter of avoiding bs that ended up on this forum, they should have recused themselves. Our justice system is far from perfect, but they got that part right. If there is any hint of impropriety, conflict of interests, why expose yourself? I'm sure there are examples all over the place and I can't claim or quite frankly want to give a crap. Clearly, there are rifts that run very deep here, but hey shut up and train. Hey Jeff O, wanna join my BR club?...you are an honorary member already in my book!


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## David Frost

Once someone finds out what buttons to push --- it's nothing more than a game. Some of you folks really wear your "buttons" on your sleeves. For the life of me, I will never understand how something someone says, on a computer, can have such an effect. I first heard the term when CB radios were popular: "nothing but a CB Ninja". I merely update to reflect todays, Keyboard Ninjas, ha ha

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Lets see, King of nara, honorary member of ARF, and now a Belgian ring club. Sounds real good. I like BR, too bad it never got off the ground here.

The vid that Martine put up is crazy cool. I would like to see Mondio get more stuff like that.


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## Don Turnipseed

David Ruby said:


> I guess the question is, is it weeding out people that are legitimately great or widely-known trainers? Like the Michael Ellis, Ivan B., Francis Metcalf, Leri Hansen, Howard Burgess, Butch Henderson, those types? Those are the types of people I'd _love_ to see posting on message boards. You miss a David Ruby post, no big deal. But if we are missing the input of those types of folk, that's kind of a bummer. Maybe that has nothing to do with thy those guys don't post much if at all. Largely, that's the kind of stuff I primarily care about missing out on, people like that who might be a pretty significant asset to these sorts of forums.
> 
> That and not all the people who leave or just don't bother with the boards are all-talk people. Not all of them are big names, but they are fairly accomplished a/o professional dog trainers that just seem to find the griping pretty pointless. Even the newbies who maybe should have thicker skins, I think jumping all over them might not make them horribly offended so much as make them think we're all a-holes. At that point, what's their incentive to stick around?
> 
> As for Jeff's "weeding out the $#!%ers," considering his opinion of me you have to kind of question how well that theory's holding out.
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> -Cheers


David, maybe I missed it but I have never seen any of thes "big" names you mention give any free advise on a message board. If you are going to make a plausable case, your going to have to use a better example.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

He doesn't have a case, and has no idea what my opinion is. The "shitters" I was talking about were his imaginary people that discussions are running off. This board has been this way for many years, and it is probably the largest board on working dogs.

It is a case of Ruby wanting to have more say in what is going on. He is frustrated because he is not getting his way, and lashes out by making stupid posts like this one.

Just another example of needing to control.

How's that working out for you ?


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## Lee H Sternberg

David Ruby said:


> I guess the question is, is it weeding out people that are legitimately great or widely-known trainers? Like the Michael Ellis, Ivan B., Francis Metcalf, Leri Hansen, Howard Burgess, Butch Henderson, those types? Those are the types of people I'd _love_ to see posting on message boards. You miss a David Ruby post, no big deal. But if we are missing the input of those types of folk, that's kind of a bummer. Maybe that has nothing to do with thy those guys don't post much if at all. Largely, that's the kind of stuff I primarily care about missing out on, people like that who might be a pretty significant asset to these sorts of forums.
> 
> That and not all the people who leave or just don't bother with the boards are all-talk people. Not all of them are big names, but they are fairly accomplished a/o professional dog trainers that just seem to find the griping pretty pointless. Even the newbies who maybe should have thicker skins, I think jumping all over them might not make them horribly offended so much as make them think we're all a-holes. At that point, what's their incentive to stick around?
> 
> As for Jeff's "weeding out the $#!%ers," considering his opinion of me you have to kind of question how well that theory's holding out.
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> -Cheers


Those kind of guys typically do not post on forums for a million different reasons.


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## David Ruby

Don Turnipseed said:


> David, maybe I missed it but I have never seen any of thes "big" names you mention give any free advise on a message board. If you are going to make a plausable case, your going to have to use a better example.


Touche' Don!

Actually, not sure if you'd classify them as "big names" or not, but on other message boards, I used to see Leri Hansen post years ago about her APBT's. Francis posts quite a bit on True Grit and used to post here. Michael Ellis has posted here like six times, and sure it's his job to be a dog trainer but he does post some free videos over at Leerburg. Howard Burgess occasionally posts on some boards, he's pretty reputable in the APBT world and seems a really nice guy with no helplessness issues to speak of. The rest I couldn't say, some of those were random examples.

The other people I know a/o have been lucky to meet, train with, and get to know aren't necessarily "big names" but people with a decent amount of years training (and not all Bulldog folk) that very rarely post if ever on message boards specifically to avoid wasting time on message boards arguing because somebody doesn't like their sport, dogs, training style, waist-size, or whatever. Most aren't big sport names a lot of people are necessarily likely to recognize and I don't feel like dragging every dog person I've ever met that's complained about how they get tired of message board drama into this. I'm actually going to go train some dog tricks.

-Cheers


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I cannot remember the last time I saw any of those names post on a board, if ever. I also really doubt that what he is talking about is what keeps them from posting.


----------



## Christopher Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Maybe you change your name to Jones. That should do it. Everyone likes Jones.


=; Theres only room for one Christopher Jones on this forum Jeff. And no, not everyone on this forum likes me......


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

He worships the ground you walk on. If you watch his videos closely you can see the little shrine he has for you.


----------



## Christopher Jones

David Ruby said:


> Touche' Don!
> 
> Actually, not sure if you'd classify them as "big names" or not, but on other message boards, I used to see Leri Hansen post years ago about her APBT's. Francis posts quite a bit on True Grit and used to post here. Michael Ellis has posted here like six times, and sure it's his job to be a dog trainer but he does post some free videos over at Leerburg. Howard Burgess occasionally posts on some boards, he's pretty reputable in the APBT world and seems a really nice guy with no helplessness issues to speak of. The rest I couldn't say, some of those were random examples.
> 
> The other people I know a/o have been lucky to meet, train with, and get to know aren't necessarily "big names" but people with a decent amount of years training (and not all Bulldog folk) that very rarely post if ever on message boards specifically to avoid wasting time on message boards arguing because somebody doesn't like their sport, dogs, training style, waist-size, or whatever. Most aren't big sport names a lot of people are necessarily likely to recognize and I don't feel like dragging every dog person I've ever met that's complained about how they get tired of message board drama into this. I'm actually going to go train some dog tricks.
> 
> -Cheers


Im not trying to blow smoke up anyone here, but I think you need to stand back a bit and see just who is on this forum.
You have in Martine Loots, one of the most knowedgable BR trainers going around. You have KNPV guys like Dick, Selena, Gerben etc. There are IPO trainers, French Ring trainers, Police dog handlers and trainers, Military dog trainers and handlers, scent guys, hunting guys. You have Mali, DS, GSD, Dobe, Rotti, Airedale etc , etc.
Basically this forum is what you are willing to make of it.


----------



## Christopher Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> He worships the ground you walk on. If you watch his videos closely you can see the little shrine he has for you.


Hopefully not in the same kinda way David F did of you.......:lol:
The Smiths dont have the same happy go lucky nature as us Jones's.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

You never know. At least you have a huge ocean around you.


----------



## Jim Nash

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I cannot remember the last time I saw any of those names post on a board, if ever. I also really doubt that what he is talking about is what keeps them from posting.


Why do you think they don't post on these forums . 

As for Jones I like him when he talks about dogs but when he goes of on stuff like this Not so much .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDooixhkGlk&feature=related


----------



## David Ruby

Christopher Jones said:


> Im not trying to blow smoke up anyone here, but I think you need to stand back a bit and see just who is on this forum.
> You have in Martine Loots, one of the most knowedgable BR trainers going around. You have KNPV guys like Dick, Selena, Gerben etc. There are IPO trainers, French Ring trainers, Police dog handlers and trainers, Military dog trainers and handlers, scent guys, hunting guys. You have Mali, DS, GSD, Dobe, Rotti, Airedale etc , etc.
> Basically this forum is what you are willing to make of it.


I _do_ think there are some great names that do come here. I have a lot of respect for Martine, and the Van Leeuwens are a very well-known name in KNPV, as is Gergen from my understanding, Carmen from Like a Hurricane, regardless of where you stand on the FR split you have in alphabetical order Richard Rutt, Bob Solimini, Erin Suggett, and Kadi Thingvall all as members on the board with tons of experience, some breeders like Carmen Van de Camp of Like a Hurricane, Mike Suttle of Logan Haus, Debbie Skinner of Les Ombres Valeureux, some Police Handlers like David Frost and a few others, Bob Scott who seems to know a ton and is very helpful, pretty widely-accomplished decoys like Tim Bartlett, even off-breed guys like Don T. and his Airedales, Bill Hollinger a Bouv guy who occasionally posts and Bouv/Boel aficionado Tashi, and tons more people with craptons of qualifications who have done work in lots of venues that I've missed from virtually every background. 

So I think there is a LOT of knowledge out there, I do think it's cool to see those people giving their input, and yes it is what you are willing to make of it. I did not mean to belittle that.

-Cheers


----------



## Chris Daleo

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Lets see, King of nara, honorary member of ARF, and now a Belgian ring club. Sounds real good. I like BR, too bad it never got off the ground here.QUOTE]
> 
> Well let's change that! Though the more I have been reading of Mondio might be the go to for me if BR doesn't work out. What I do like about BR compared to FR is the emphasis on grip. I came from the world where a deep, full calm grip was the standard.
> Hey right now I am having fun. I also bequeath to you honorary breed warden of the USRC!
> 
> Here Jeff...feel free to poop on me. Here's my guy at 5.5mos starting on the leg sleeve
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFQa63nwDyg


----------



## Alison Grubb

I'm pretty new here and to working dogs in general. I find the drama downright entertaining to be honest.
I don't really understand why people get all ass hurt over what other people say about them or their dogs on the internet. Just take what you need and leave what you don't, it's pretty simple that way.

It seems to me that no matter what you do, someone somewhere is going to be talking shit. Doesn't matter what titles you have or how many times you have trialed, there will always be people trying to mess with you. Getting your feelings hurt on a message board isn't going to change any of that...but you do have the chance to change it every single time you walk out onto the field. Just sayin'.


----------



## Christopher Jones

Chris Daleo said:


> Jeff Oehlsen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see, King of nara, honorary member of ARF, and now a Belgian ring club. Sounds real good. I like BR, too bad it never got off the ground here.QUOTE]
> 
> Well let's change that! Though the more I have been reading of Mondio might be the go to for me if BR doesn't work out. What I do like about BR compared to FR is the emphasis on grip. I came from the world where a deep, full calm grip was the standard.
> Hey right now I am having fun. I also bequeath to you honorary breed warden of the USRC!
> 
> Here Jeff...feel free to poop on me. Here's my guy at 5.5mos starting on the leg sleeve
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFQa63nwDyg
> 
> 
> 
> Good on you for trying your hand at NVBK, its a great sport.
> And also I have to say this, we have found the NVBK organisation in Belgium bend over backwards to promote their sport and to make it more accesible for people outside Belgium to join. Its cheap for a club to become a member (75 Euro per year), you can regsiter your dogs in their pedigree system. They have introduced the basic certficate for new countries to train and cut their teeth on. They have allowed it to be judged by only one judge so its not as expensive to bring judges out.
> I have emailed them before asking about the bloodlines of certain NVBK dogs and they have sent me the bloodlines of the dogs.
> 
> They have pretty much done everything they can to make it easy for people to do outside Belgium.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Here Jeff...feel free to poop on me. Here's my guy at 5.5mos starting on the leg sleeve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFQa63nwDyg

That is something for another thread. : )

Ruby, you listed erin suggett ?? Might want to re-think that. LOL


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: I also bequeath to you honorary breed warden of the USRC!

You can keep that. Their idea of good drive is a dog that can keep up on a walk around the block.


----------



## Margaret Wheeler

David Ruby said:


> Yeah but you're the woman who fought off a crazy Pit Bull with a 9mm in one hand and a curtain rod in the other all in your underwear. Don't take this the wrong way, because that was pretty awesome and more than a little hot. But you're hardly the norm.
> 
> -Cheers


Balls of Steel! Ashley you are mah hero!



David Ruby said:


> I _do_ think there are some great names that do come here. I have a lot of respect for Martine, and the Van Leeuwens are a very well-known name in KNPV, as is Gergen from my understanding, Carmen from Like a Hurricane, regardless of where you stand on the FR split you have in alphabetical order Richard Rutt, Bob Solimini, Erin Suggett, and Kadi Thingvall all as members on the board with tons of experience, some breeders like Carmen Van de Camp of Like a Hurricane, Mike Suttle of Logan Haus, Debbie Skinner of Les Ombres Valeureux, some Police Handlers like David Frost and a few others, Bob Scott who seems to know a ton and is very helpful, pretty widely-accomplished decoys like Tim Bartlett, even off-breed guys like Don T. and his Airedales, Bill Hollinger a Bouv guy who occasionally posts and Bouv/Boel aficionado Tashi, and tons more people with craptons of qualifications who have done work in lots of venues that I've missed from virtually every background.
> 
> So I think there is a LOT of knowledge out there, I do think it's cool to see those people giving their input, and yes it is what you are willing to make of it. I did not mean to belittle that.
> 
> -Cheers


Lulz! That's pretty good name recognition for a guy who didn't know the history of the ARF/NARA conflict. 
AND
Being a practicing devotee of the suckup post myself, I doff my hat to you sir!

J/K David!


----------



## Chris Daleo

Christopher Jones said:


> Chris Daleo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good on you for trying your hand at NVBK, its a great sport.
> And also I have to say this, we have found the NVBK organisation in Belgium bend over backwards to promote their sport and to make it more accesible for people outside Belgium to join. Its cheap for a club to become a member (75 Euro per year), you can regsiter your dogs in their pedigree system. They have introduced the basic certficate for new countries to train and cut their teeth on. They have allowed it to be judged by only one judge so its not as expensive to bring judges out.
> I have emailed them before asking about the bloodlines of certain NVBK dogs and they have sent me the bloodlines of the dogs.
> 
> They have pretty much done everything they can to make it easy for people to do outside Belgium.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Christopher. Our club is officially sanctioned by the NVBK as you said they are good about extending the memberships to other countries. I don't know of any other BR club in the states, which adds its own obvious obstacles. We don't have any formal decoys all the dogs are young under 15 mos, mine is 6mos. The members help each other out, which is what a club is. I have put on the suit, but clearly with sub-novice experience, we don't want to screw up any dogs, we need a good decoy. But we have the will and where there is a will there is a way. Maybe some of this melodrama in FR, will lead to more BR, but it appears MR is gaining in popularity. I need to do more research but it appears to be the best of both FR/BR primarily, so that could end up being an avenue the club takes. Cheers.
Click to expand...


----------



## David Ruby

Chris Daleo said:


> Christopher Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Christopher. Our club is officially sanctioned by the NVBK as you said they are good about extending the memberships to other countries. I don't know of any other BR club in the states, which adds its own obvious obstacles. We don't have any formal decoys all the dogs are young under 15 mos, mine is 6mos. The members help each other out, which is what a club is. I have put on the suit, but clearly with sub-novice experience, we don't want to screw up any dogs, we need a good decoy. But we have the will and where there is a will there is a way. Maybe some of this melodrama in FR, will lead to more BR, but it appears MR is gaining in popularity. I need to do more research but it appears to be the best of both FR/BR primarily, so that could end up being an avenue the club takes. Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounded like crosstraining between the different Ring sports was a viable option to try out. Mondio is to some degree a compromise between Belgian Ring and French Ring and apparently designed to sort of, well to quote their website, _*"level the playing ground" and allow competitors from any of the world’s disciplines to compete in a common dog sport. French Ring, Belgian Ring, IPO (SchH) and KNPV all were represented. The result is a dog sport that combines the best of all of these sports: Mondioring.*_
> 
> It is pretty cool you guys are doing Belgian Ring, so maybe you can ultimately do both on some level. It probably won't help you pick up girls at the bar or anything, but it looks like a neat venue and they've got to start somewhere in the States.
> 
> -Cheers
Click to expand...


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

Melodrama is created by those who wish they could but never had the balls to really participate within the structures set out.

Head in hole syndrome.


----------



## Mike Scheiber

looks to be the perfect thread to be promoting BR another hole to kick the Schutzhund rejects or the ones that can't play with others


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Mike Scheiber said:


> looks to be the perfect thread to be promoting BR another hole to kick the Schutzhund rejects or the ones that can't play with others


What Scutzhund rejects are you speaking of?


----------



## Chris Daleo

I think I play well with others...problem is trying to find a sandbox to play in FR, BR or MR compared with SchH. Aside from the club I am in which is half hour away, the closest FR club is nearly 2hrs away and no idea where the closest MR is.
Checkout Martine Loots post of the Cat2 2010 NBVK, that's a hole I would love to get kicked into.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Chris Daleo said:


> Checkout Martine Loots post of the Cat2 2010 NBVK, that's a hole I would love to get kicked into.


One persons hole is a mountain for others!


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Timothy Stacy said:


> What Scutzhund rejects are you speaking of?


No one in particular I have a strong hunch the cry babies in french Ring are no strangers to bite sports and are the same snivelers that cant play well any ware and got daboot from.............
I meant no disrespect to BR the sport.
I think I'm going to be cooking at Lisa G's trial I'll be keeping a eye out and watching how every one plays seems like the Mondio people are getting along OK so it seems.


----------



## Geoff Empey

Timothy Stacy said:


> One persons hole is a mountain for others!


Tim you've become the WDF resident Buddha guru! :!: Take us to the magic rock and the crying tree of life. The unwashed masses will follow you now. All hail Tim!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> Tim you've become the WDF resident Buddha guru! :!: Take us to the magic rock and the crying tree of life. The unwashed masses will follow you now. All hail Tim!


Huh??? Did you know you should put tops on your kennel? Who's crying? I can help you put a proper kennel together, you just have to ask, now follow me


----------



## shawn murace

It still amazes me the ego's in the dog world. Outside the dog world their names mean absolutely nothing. After a trial they still get in their car and drive the hell away like the rest of us that trialed our dogs that day. 

I have high lines and working lines and train pet dogs for a living cause that's where the money is. I do schutzhund because I like it but I have no idea why I still show. It's just not fun anymore. I get shit from all sides but who cares? Once I get my check from Bill Gates for surfing the net I'm going to get some new dogs that kick ass and reinvest in my Nigerian account that the good Dr. got for me. 

Dog training isn't the place to have thin skin and this forum is tame compared to some of the ones I'm on. Atleast it's not pedigree database with the constant spam and infighting or other dog forums where they constantly praise dogs that don't deserve it cause god forbid they give any real criticism. If nothing else atleast the arguments on here are humorous and how damn dumb is it to argue on the internet anyway? 

I'll be at N.A.S.S. if anyone wants to have a beer BTW.


----------



## charles Turner

Christopher Jones said:


> Im not trying to blow smoke up anyone here, but I think you need to stand back a bit and see just who is on this forum.
> You have in Martine Loots, one of the most knowedgable BR trainers going around. You have KNPV guys like Dick, Selena, Gerben etc. There are IPO trainers, French Ring trainers, Police dog handlers and trainers, Military dog trainers and handlers, scent guys, hunting guys. You have Mali, DS, GSD, Dobe, Rotti, Airedale etc , etc.
> Basically this forum is what you are willing to make of it.


"Don't sweat the small stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff"

You have to say this fast for it to work!lol


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> :!: Take us to the magic rock and the crying tree of life. !


No need to look for the crying tree, as your house is built in it's trunk.
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...repeatedly-bash-dog-sports-banned-sect-17282/ =D>=D>=D>


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: I do schutzhund because I like it but I have no idea why I still show.

I have to remind myself a lot more than I would like to admit, why I am still doing this shit. It seems goofy sometimes, my friends are always busting my balls about why anyone would want to do a sport where there are no hot chicks, only old fat bitter power tripping chicks. One said I should slap a mushroom print on a few of them and call it a day. I still laugh at that one.


----------



## Margaret Wheeler

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I do schutzhund because I like it but I have no idea why I still show.
> 
> I have to remind myself a lot more than I would like to admit, why I am still doing this shit. It seems goofy sometimes, my friends are always busting my balls about why anyone would want to do a sport where there are no hot chicks, only old fat bitter power tripping chicks. One said I should slap a mushroom print on a few of them and call it a day. I still laugh at that one.


Hey, I'm fat but not bitter and definitely not on a power trip. If it's about hot chicks for you, then you should have made the ARF nationals. Blame yourself for missing Manolo's sweetie: she's beautiful, funny, nice and has something like 43 ring 3s on her dog. Can you say ooo la la?


----------



## Doug Zaga

*Re: How Much Does the O-Such Drama Cost Us?*

Hey Margaret we miss you...what gets me is the old fat bastards with bum knees who think they can still pick up chicks but most of the time they are watching porn and fantasizing about many years past. Only one thing in life left ....death or "his" dog...

BTW Cookout this Sunday at the club!


----------



## Margaret Wheeler

*Re: How Much Does the O-Such Drama Cost Us?*



Doug Zaga said:


> Hey Margaret we miss you...what gets me is the old fat bastards with bum knees who think they can still pick up chicks but most of the time they are watching porn and fantasizing about many years past. Only one thing in life left ....death or "his" dog...
> 
> BTW Cookout this Sunday at the club!


Dude! You read my mind! I was lurking on your club fb page and thinking that I would love to stop in at the Wicked Smart Cafe! Thank you for the invitation. I really miss you guys too. I'm going to do my best to stop in.
\\/


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Doug, what kind of porn you watching ?


----------



## Doug Zaga

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Doug, what kind of porn you watching ?


Not to brag Jeff but I have a very beautiful, sexy, seductive wife that still finds this F'n asshole attractive so very little porn here but who know what the future holds ...and you Jeff? :-({|=

BTW are you going to the NJ Mondio Trial? If so, maybe I will catch up with you since Scott is decoying and trialing and another club member, Julie is trialing.


----------



## Margaret Wheeler

Doug Zaga said:


> Not to brag Jeff but I have a very beautiful, sexy, seductive wife that still finds this F'n asshole attractive so very little porn here but who know what the future holds ...and you Jeff? :-({|=
> 
> BTW are you going to the NJ Mondio Trial? If so, maybe I will catch up with you since Scott is decoying and trialing and another club member, Julie is trialing.


 
I am hoping to come down to watch. Damgan and I (mostly I!) won't even be ready to trial in French Ring until the Spring so Mondio is pretty far down the road. 

Hah! I have to say that actually going on to the field for DIW was an intense reality check! So glad that Bob and ARF gave me that opportunity to see how much I have is to learn.:-|

LOL oops I thought you were asking me. Well are you going Jeff? If you like porn, NJ's not a bad place to find it.


----------



## Joby Becker

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I do schutzhund because I like it but I have no idea why I still show.
> 
> I have to remind myself a lot more than I would like to admit, why I am still doing this shit. It seems goofy sometimes, my friends are always busting my balls about why anyone would want to do a sport where there are no hot chicks, only old fat bitter power tripping chicks. One said I should slap a mushroom print on a few of them and call it a day. I still laugh at that one.


Chicks? there are plenty of decent semi-hot to hot chicks in dogsports...(more in un-organized PP, I had the hottest training group for a while) 

what about the guys?? LOL...(not the decoys)..but the competitors...old fat bitter power tripping dudes all over the place...you included....you should slap yourself first, then the other guys as well....just hopefully not with a mushroom print...LOL


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Joby, bust out the video where you get punked like a little bitch. LOVE that video.

Not going to Jersey, will be going to Minnesota. I would love to go to the Jersey trial, but we need to squash the country down to a reasonable size so I can afford to go all over **** and back. I love the theme of that trial.

After almost 30 years in the nightclub business, going to the dog clubs to girl watch is a joke. Gotta have something to do while you are waiting to bring out your dog. 

Listening to their insecurities being played out is almost as bad as reading the drivel that drops from Joby's mouth. Luckily not everyone out there is so insecure that they just assume that I am talking about them.

joby, why did your mom name you that ? Good grief, change your name to something less gay.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Just a side note joby, don't act like you know me.


----------



## Drew Peirce

Jeff, if I told you I was married to a playboy playmate would you dismiss it as utter bullshit in a nanosecond?


----------



## Ashley Campbell

Drew Peirce said:


> Jeff, if I told you I was married to a playboy playmate would you dismiss it as utter bullshit in a nanosecond?


I know this comment isn't meant for me, but it doesn't count if she was the 1941 Playmate...


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
Jeff, if I told you I was married to a playboy playmate would you dismiss it as utter bullshit in a nanosecond?

Everyone has their own definitions of hot, so you are right, I dismissed it as utter bullshit. He is a porn guy, you can tell. LOL


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Miss 1941 ?? Playboy started in 55 with Monroe. Pay attention. However, I am pretty sure she would have still been hotter than some of the dregs I have seen out there. LOL


----------



## Drew Peirce

this thread could get interesting in a helluva hurry...........

Ashley are you joby's new water carrier?


----------



## Margaret Wheeler

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> Jeff, if I told you I was married to a playboy playmate would you dismiss it as utter bullshit in a nanosecond?
> 
> Everyone has their own definitions of hot, so you are right, I dismissed it as utter bullshit. He is a porn guy, you can tell. LOL


I can't comment on his porn habits, but uh his wife really is extremely good looking, lol.


----------



## Ashley Campbell

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Miss 1941 ?? Playboy started in 55 with Monroe. Pay attention. However, I am pretty sure she would have still been hotter than some of the dregs I have seen out there. LOL


Show's how much I keep up with Playboy - the fact that you knew what year they started up tells me you look at more porn than me though Jeff 

Drew, not sure what you mean by that, but if you knew the stuff I normally write, know that you aren't the sole subject of my ball busting, as seen above.


----------



## Drew Peirce

playboy aint porn, but you thinking it is, speaks volumes..........


----------



## Ashley Campbell

I'm sure you just read it for the articles Drew...


----------



## Margaret Wheeler

Ashley Campbell said:


> I'm sure you just read it for the articles Drew...


LOL ! You pretty much rock Ashley! :mrgreen:


----------



## Joby Becker

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Joby, bust out the video where you get punked like a little bitch. LOVE that video.
> 
> Not going to Jersey, will be going to Minnesota. I would love to go to the Jersey trial, but we need to squash the country down to a reasonable size so I can afford to go all over **** and back. I love the theme of that trial.
> 
> After almost 30 years in the nightclub business, going to the dog clubs to girl watch is a joke. Gotta have something to do while you are waiting to bring out your dog.
> 
> Listening to their insecurities being played out is almost as bad as reading the drivel that drops from Joby's mouth. Luckily not everyone out there is so insecure that they just assume that I am talking about them.
> 
> joby, why did your mom name you that ? Good grief, change your name to something less gay.


HI jeff!!  welcome back..


----------



## James Idi

> How Much Does the Melodrama Cost Us?


1. It's the "innernets".
2. Every hobby / sport has ridiculous drama, online and off.
3. Sometimes it's pretty entertaining.

I lurk, but don't post, because I don't even have a dog yet. Despite the drama that takes place, web sites such as this one, have provided a great deal of excellent info and insight that I couldn't find in many other places.

Soon I will have my Master VonDerMuff dutchie and will start some "best way to find money" drama....


----------



## Timothy Stacy

James Idi said:


> 1.
> 
> Soon I will have my Master VonDerMuff dutchie and will start some "best way to find money" drama....


Nice!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

He has really high drive dogs. Should be some money making fools for you.


----------



## Candy Eggert

Timothy Stacy said:


> Nice!


He fits right in, don't he?! :lol::lol::lol:

James a sense of humor on this board is a good thing...welcome aboard!!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Candy Eggert said:


> He fits right in, don't he?! :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> James a sense of humor on this board is a good thing...welcome aboard!!


Yes he does. He knows the webs of teh innernets!


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Timothy Stacy said:


> Yes he does. He knows the webs of teh innernets!


And the ones that matters


----------



## Joby Becker

The classic VonderMuff video:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5814361/


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Mike Scheiber said:


> And the ones that matters


He's in the right place for sure!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Joby Becker said:


> The classic VonderMuff video:
> 
> http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5814361/


I for got about this. I need to an extended version, let me get started! LOL


----------



## Jerry Cudahy

James Idi said:


> 1.and will start some "best way to find money" drama....


FUNNY,

BTW, Stay away from my money :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## shawn murace

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I have to remind myself a lot more than I would like to admit, why I am still doing this shit. It seems goofy sometimes, my friends are always busting my balls about why anyone would want to do a sport where there are no hot chicks, only old fat bitter power tripping chicks. One said I should slap a mushroom print on a few of them and call it a day. I still laugh at that one.


LMAO. Understand completely. I still drag race every now and then and there is no shortage of hot woman at the track. Then I come back to the training field and it's a sausage factory of geriatrics talking about pedigrees and lineages. To play devils advocate there are a few good looking women in dog sports. A few. Of course beauty being subjective, some women I wonder who the hell let them out of the kitchen.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I have to remind myself a lot more than I would like to admit, why I am still doing this shit. It seems goofy sometimes, my friends are always busting my balls about why anyone would want to do a sport where there are no hot chicks, only old fat bitter power tripping chicks. One said I should slap a mushroom print on a few of them and call it a day. I still laugh at that one.


I get made fun of all the time for being a dog geek. In IS totally goofy. 

The reality is Jeff that you are too old and too fat for good looking chicks anyways. And you yourself are no stranger to "bitter".

Man I can't wait until I give up my job, move and get into ringsports! I will definately be an old, fat and bitter power tripping bitch by then so will fit right in:twisted:


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## Lloyd Kasakoff

Jennifer Coulter said:


> The reality is Jeff that you are too old and too fat for good looking chicks anyways. And you yourself are no stranger to "bitter".


This is not positive reinforcement. Once upon a time, Jeff Oehlsen was, I'm sure, a warm, happy, courageous, friendly, prince-like, smart, honest, funny man like most every woman wants. I am also sure that comments like the one above drove Jeff to become the "bitter" fat old ogre that "good looking chicks" shy away from today. Right Jeff? What's wrong with bitter anyway? You say it like it's a bad thing  Because all heroic men, be they cops, firemen, service people and alike, are young studly looking compliant saps anyway? Poor bitter Jeff!  Old guys rule!

(dude, it's true - I said Heroic and Jeff Oehlsen in the same paragraph - where's my treat????)




Jennifer Coulter said:


> Man I can't wait until I give up my job, move and get into ringsports! I will definately be an old, fat and bitter power tripping bitch by then so will fit right in:twisted:


California has a home for you - you'll fit right in.  Perhaps we can send Barbra Streisand to Canada (she's been threatening for years) and have you in trade.


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## Jerry Cudahy

[QUOTE=Lloyd Kasakoff;  Old guys rule!

Your a wise man Lioyd Kasakoff


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: The reality is Jeff that you are too old and too fat for good looking chicks anyways

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Do you have any idea how ****ing dumb hot chicks are ? So sorry to say that I have no problem with the hot chicks. Women are still basically suckers, so I got that going for me.


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## Jerry Cudahy

Hey Jeff, these Ladies members of your fan club.


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## maggie fraser

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Do you have any idea how ****ing dumb hot chicks are ? So sorry to say that I have no problem with the hot chicks. Women are still basically suckers, so I got that going for me.
Click to expand...

You sound as though you have VEry limited experience :wink:.


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## David Ruby

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Women are still basically suckers, so I got that going for me.


That's right ladies, he's still available! 

-Cheers


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## David Ruby

Kat LaPlante said:


> I like the melodrama, in fact jeffs posts are some of the ones I take more seriously than others at times. Even if you dont want the "melodrama" make sure to read between the lines as there is lots of good stuff hidden in between.


First, this was not meant to be about Jeff specifically and definitely not entirely.

Second, yeah, there is a lot in between the lines. Sometimes it just turns into a soap opera. I think it can get old at times when people just sort of turn loose. But granted, I'm still here so you could argue it's not _that_ bad from my perspective.

Still, most people not involved in working dog-stuff find us weird enough as it is.

-Cheers


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## Matt Grosch

why does david hate freedom?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: You sound as though you have VEry limited experience .

You are right, never thought to look in a cardboard box. Since the chances of finding anything worth looking at in a cardboard box are about as good as finding a good scot goalkeeper, I will just go about my business.


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## Connie Sutherland

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> This is not positive reinforcement. Once upon a time, Jeff Oehlsen was, I'm sure, a warm, happy, courageous, friendly, prince-like, smart, honest, funny man like most every woman wants. I am also sure that comments like the one above drove Jeff to become the "bitter" fat old ogre that "good looking chicks" shy away from today. .... Old guys rule!
> 
> (dude, it's true - I said Heroic and Jeff Oehlsen in the same paragraph - where's my treat????) ...


Lloyd, you made me LOL. 

Out loud.

How do you feel about "warm, happy, courageous, friendly, princess-like, smart, honest, funny" women old enough to be Jeff's -- ummm -- slightly older sister?


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## Doug Zaga

Lloyd...he "WAS" in his own mind.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: The reality is Jeff that you are too old and too fat for good looking chicks anyways
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
> 
> Do you have any idea how ****ing dumb hot chicks are ? So sorry to say that I have no problem with the hot chicks. Women are still basically suckers, so I got that going for me.


Oh snap...burn on me then I guess? I was not aware that hot chicks were that dumb.

More to the point of the OP, I have learned a lot over the years on WDF. I don't live in a place where there are dog sports or many pointy eared working line dogs so I gleen important info where I can. 

I have found many people here very helpful indeed, some poeple I just do my best to ignore. I try and put on my big girl pants when I visit the forum... 

I often type replies and then delete them, I find it a cathartic exercise when I want to throw my laptop accross the room:razz:


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## Ashley Campbell

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I often type replies and then delete them, I find it a cathartic exercise when I want to throw my laptop accross the room:razz:


Or beat someone to death with the laptop THEN throw it across the room... I have those moments of frustration over really ignorant shit. 

I've learned a lot by sticking around here. I lurked a whole lot for the first...year. Now that I'm getting a bit wiser about what's going on, I can join in some conversations that I might know a little about. I also feel "safer" asking questions on here than the other forum I used to be a member of. There, I'd get flamed to no end about the "F*ck up" with my dogs possible litter, at least here I got some good, constructive advice. Not that I can't take the flaming, but it pisses me off if I have a legitimate question and get nothing but the "OMG you terrible person you should burn in Hell" replies. So, long story short, I like it here.


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## Gillian Schuler

Connie Sutherland said:


> Really. What in the world would make Jeff think that any of that involved him?


Yep, Connie, what in the world...

Jeff, I'm not basing you, I'm justa wonderin'


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## Gillian Schuler

Connie Sutherland said:


> Lloyd, you made me LOL.
> 
> Out loud.
> 
> How do you feel about "warm, happy, courageous, friendly, princess-like, smart, honest, funny" women old enough to be Jeff's -- ummm -- slightly older sister?


 
I'll signal in on this!


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## Lloyd Kasakoff

Connie Sutherland said:


> Lloyd, you made me LOL.
> 
> Out loud.
> 
> How do you feel about "warm, happy, courageous, friendly, princess-like, smart, honest, funny" women old enough to be Jeff's -- ummm -- slightly older sister?


Oh, Connie. Age is just a number. I've flirted with octogenarians and teens alike.

If you can clean kennels and wear a bitesuit, all things are possible - but the only women I've met who consistently fit the bill here are Russian or Czech and scare me a little ( http://www.eurosportk9.com/commands/pozar1.wmv ) http://www.eurosportk9.com/commands/pozar2.wmv. 

If you're beautiful and a trust fund baby on top of that, you'd be divine. If you have a stripper's body, I'd be swoony. My father always said a great girl should...err...nevermind. Gender secrets.

Now, if you also come equipped with an FAA Inspector Authorized mechanic license and know how to fix airplanes on top of the above, you're dreamy and you should PM me right away. There's an ocean view bedroom waiting for you. 

Oh, and birkenstocks are a deal breaker - as is placing more than one collar on a dog at a time. The dogs just don't like that much melodrama. As it is we don't have enough time to get our dogs trained - drama just eats into that training time. If you are into melodrama, though, we can probably find a local ringsport club for you...


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## Lloyd Kasakoff

Here's some melodrama for you.

I heard Ivan B had a love affair...









with Josef Mravik from Eurosport...in a "new" or "neutral field" that no one had trained in before...










and their lovechild was...Michael Ellis....










though Michael disputes it


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## Candy Eggert

roflmao @ Lloyd \\/ You should post more often...enuff said :lol::lol::lol:


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## Margaret Wheeler

lloyd kasakoff said:


> here's some melodrama for you.
> 
> I heard ivan b had a love affair...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with josef mravik from eurosport...in a "new" or "neutral field" that no one had trained in before...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and their lovechild was...michael ellis....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> though michael disputes it


lmfao!!!


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## Lloyd Kasakoff

Do you think Ivan and Josef talk to each other to see which of Michael's features were inherited from which parent? Do we think Michael's bandana was a Balavanov family heirloom? Did little Michael work out at the same gym as Josef? Was Michael an Ivan's boy or a Josef's boy? (momma's boy or daddy's girl really doesn't apply here...)

OK. 


I have a confession to make. 


OK. Two.


I don't know for a fact that Ivan and Josef had an affair. Chances are if Josef came to the US he'd break my kneecaps just on the rumor alone - he's kind of a manly man. I didn't start the rumor! 

Further, Michael says he doesn't even know Josef. Ivan would go back to drinking tea and roll his eyes.

But this rumor was lifted in its entirety by Shawna.  She's the originator of it. Josef - go break her kneecaps!

For the record, I don't think anyone in that family wears birkenstocks.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

It is about time LK showed up.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> California has a home for you - you'll fit right in.  Perhaps we can send Barbra Streisand to Canada (she's been threatening for years) and have you in trade.


Lloyd, I really appreciate the invitation, it is nice to feel welcome. On behalf of Canadians (straight ones anyways) everywhere, you can keep Barbara. We are pretty stoked we got rid of Celine Dion to you guys though.


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## maggie fraser

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: You sound as though you have VEry limited experience .
> 
> You are right, never thought to look in a cardboard box. Since the chances of finding anything worth looking at in a cardboard box are about as good as finding a good scot goalkeeper, I will just go about my business.


 What the Scots may lack in goal keeping talent, they make up for in heart.

Now, the big trick these days is to look in unusual places...but if you're such an ordinary guy looking only in the ordinary places for only ordinary quality, what do you expect? Best you just carry on with your business right enough....maybe an ordinary hot chick is just an ordinary sucker for an ordinary guy like you.


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## Lamar Blackmor

why does michal ellis wear fireman shirts when he's not a ****ing fireman and sweatshirts from columbia and stanford, schools he never went to.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Lamar Blackmor said:


> why does michal ellis wear fireman shirts when he's not a ****ing fireman and sweatshirts from columbia and stanford, schools he never went to.


I am going to ASSume they are shirts that are given to him by people he trains with?

I sometimes like to give away shirts from my work to people I train with...even though they don't have the same job as me, I am fine with them wearing them.


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## Ashley Campbell

Probably the same reason I have a FDNY jacket from NYC - even though I've never been. Had a friend on their fire dept during 9/11 - and he gave it to me.

Is that another fashion faux pas? I guess I'm way behind the times, lol.


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## Christopher Jones

I think so long as when your having a go at someone you deliver it with wit and humour its okay. If its someone trying to be a in your face tough guy its not as good. Thats why when me and Tim S were going at each other, I didnt get too upset. He threw humourous insults at me and I tried to throw funnier ones at him. Wether his were funnier than mine, well that was the audiences role to judge lol.
And so long as it doesnt go off board then thats important as well.


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## Mike Scheiber

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I am going to ASSume they are shirts that are given to him by people he trains with?
> 
> I sometimes like to give away shirts from my work to people I train with...even though they don't have the same job as me, I am fine with them wearing them.


Prolly rite or shopping at Good Will dog training can be hard on cloths and I don't care who they are no one is getting rich training bite sport dogs.


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## Lloyd Kasakoff

Lamar, 



Lamar Blackmor said:


> why does michal ellis wear fireman shirts when he's not a ****ing fireman and sweatshirts from columbia and stanford, schools he never went to.


I have been asked to donate plenty of older clothes to some dog trainers who put on hidden sleeves...and I've seen Michael take a bite or two, one from my own pup when he miscalibrated his "zivil"ity. 

Geezus, it's a melodrama thread - and the best you can come up with is the sweatshirts he wears? Rats - if my crap fit him, he'd have a few more fun ones for crap he hasn't done 

Sorry, Lamar - in the dolt department of questions, that was really high in the scale.


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## Mike Scheiber

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> " when he miscalibrated his "zivil"ity."
> 
> '"in the dolt department of questions,"


You use odd words


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## Timothy Stacy

Christopher Jones said:


> I think so long as when your having a go at someone you deliver it with wit and humour its okay. If its someone trying to be a in your face tough guy its not as good. Thats why when me and Tim S were going at each other, I didnt get too upset. He threw humourous insults at me and I tried to throw funnier ones at him. Wether his were funnier than mine, well that was the audiences role to judge lol.
> And so long as it doesnt go off board then thats important as well.


I still love you Chrissy :razz: Wanna have a love child? 
What if we crossed Jeff with Ivan or Michael Ellis?


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## Mike Scheiber

Timothy Stacy said:


> I still love you Chrissy :razz: Wanna have a love child?
> What if we crossed Jeff with Ivan or Michael Ellis?


How tight dare you go on this I would think Don might have something to add or some thought on this one.


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## Timothy Stacy

Mike Scheiber said:


> How tight dare you go on this I would think Don might have something to add or some thought on this one.


I think I know what a Jeff X Josef cross might produce!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr3T3U1MUdY


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## Nicole Stark

I am honestly baffled by the shiznit you come up with sometimes.


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## Lloyd Kasakoff

Mike Scheiber said:


> You use odd words


on "Zivil"ity...



Gillian Schuler said:


> I guess it comes from "zivil beiissen" in german and translated to civil biting, and has nothing to do with civil servant. I had trouble when I first encountered it.


My dog was allegedly "zivil" according to one of my favorite dog people in the world, Berhand Flinks. Sooopah!

On "Dolt"....Urban Dictionary

*1.* dolt A mental retard who is clueless not only about current events, but also has the IQ level of a rock. "Dolt" may be the most sophisticated insult in the English language. Dolts commonly populate such stereotypes as jocks, nerds, fruits, bookworms, and dorks.
"You're a dolt."


You Minneapolis people are pretty odd...between lutefisk, food on a stick, spam, the christmas year round crap, 

So....since English isn't my first language, you'll just have to be gramatically patient with me - or not


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Now, the big trick these days is to look in unusual places...but if you're such an ordinary guy looking only in the ordinary places for only ordinary quality, what do you expect?

I really am not ordinary. There is no "trick" to it. I am not looking either. Ordinary people "look".


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## Christopher Jones

Timothy Stacy said:


> I still love you Chrissy :razz: Wanna have a love child?
> What if we crossed Jeff with Ivan or Michael Ellis?


It would most likely look like a cross between my old avatar and your current one 8-[


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## David Ruby

Christopher Jones said:


> I think so long as when your having a go at someone you deliver it with wit and humour its okay. If its someone trying to be a in your face tough guy its not as good. Thats why when me and Tim S were going at each other, I didnt get too upset. He threw humourous insults at me and I tried to throw funnier ones at him. Wether his were funnier than mine, well that was the audiences role to judge lol.
> And so long as it doesnt go off board then thats important as well.


Wit makes things go smoother. Tedious griping just gets tiresome and, well, tedious. There is a fine line there between blunt a/o witty and analogous to a couple of teenagers having a cat fight.

For the record though, despite me creating this thread, I have never emailed or PM'd the mods to lock a thread or complain about one (they can correct me if I am wrong a/o are so inclined, as far as I remember I've never PM'd them complaining about anything).

-Cheers


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## Timothy Stacy

Nicole Stark said:


> I am honestly baffled by the shiznit you come up with sometimes.


LOL, was they not what the combination breeding would look like? Jeff and Josef both bring a lot of power and size to the table. Jeff's old haircut is clearly visible along with a mondio type atmosphere with the theatrics. I thought it was spot on.


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## Nicole Stark

Well you're probably pretty close about that and either a little bit weird or left handed. I haven't figured out which it is yet.


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## Bob Scott

Nicole Stark said:


> Well you're probably pretty close about that and either a little bit weird or left handed. I haven't figured out which it is yet.



:-o:-o OK! Now ya done it! 
Insulting left handed folks now. :evil:


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## Gerry Grimwood

Christopher Jones said:


> It would most likely look like a cross between my old avatar and your current one 8-[


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## Mike Scheiber

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Or...
> whoo jesus


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## Nicole Stark

Bob Scott said:


> :-o:-o OK! Now ya done it!
> Insulting left handed folks now. :evil:


Bob, didn't you know? It's my sole excuse for inappropriate and/or bizarre behavior here. :lol:


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## Ashley Campbell

Bob Scott said:


> :-o:-o OK! Now ya done it!
> Insulting left handed folks now. :evil:


I am also offended and resemble that remark...I'm taking my ball and going home now! Hmmph!


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## Gillian Schuler

However funny, however witty, 15 pages of that would turn any serious minded dog handler to the field. If that is all the forum has to offer, then I see no future for it.

If we talked like this at the club for one hour, it would be one hour less training and no one wants this.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Come to the US and listen to all the shit talked at most clubs.


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## Bob Scott

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Come to the US and listen to all the shit talked at most clubs.


I'll take that as your closing the post. 
It's been fun but waaaaaay to long. ;-)


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