# My puppy Xephyr



## Molly Graf

6 months old in this video - female pup sire H'Doc v Rex Lupus Schh3,FH2,KKl-1 dam Queen v Teufelsgrund Schh1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHfqD2QhKAo


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## ann schnerre

i like it!! from my uninformed perspective, your helper is really good, as well.


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## Mike Scheiber

Looks good


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## Molly Graf

Thank you! I am really liking this puppy, so far.

molly


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## ann schnerre

molly--would you post her ped? BTW, i've been an Eagle fan for years. what a guy you have there...


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## Daryl Ehret

here's the ped http://www.pedigreedatabase.com./gsd/pedigree/610452.html

So, how's the pup looking now at 9 months old?


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## Molly Graf

Xephyr is looking super!!! I am very excited about her.

Thanks for the comment on Eagle - Xephyr is not related to Eagle but I do have a son and daughter of his, and frozen semen - looking forward to more "Eaglettes" and grandpuppies soon.

Eagle passed away a few weeks ago - I miss him terribly he was a huge part of my life.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Looks like it is asleep. Pretty much a classic example of high thresholds.


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## ann schnerre

molly-my sympathy on Eagle's passing. 

jeff-would you expound on where this pup shows high thresholds? i seriously don't get it, and want to understand just what it is that you're "seeing".


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## Mike Scheiber

ann schnerre said:


> molly-my sympathy on Eagle's passing.
> 
> jeff-would you expound on where this pup shows high thresholds? i seriously don't get it, and want to understand just what it is that you're "seeing".


Why do you care what he thinks now hes going to make up all sorts of shit about this lady's pup and your going to say...... oh


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## Daryl Ehret

"Thresholds" could refer to a number of things. Honestly, half the time I wonder too what he's thinking. Not a high threshold for happiness, anyway.


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## Molly Graf

That's ok I love this puppy so far - too early to say "for sure" she's going to be as fantastic as I think she is - but hey it doesn't really matter what someone who sits in front of a computer enough to post 7,700 times thinks - he's obviously not out training dogs enough to know what he's talking about. LOLOLOL. I like her, thanks for other comments about her - considering the video shows her at 6 months old, and in her very first couple of "bitework" sessions, just starting to learn on a puppy tug and pillow - geez thought she did pretty darn well. thought the video was fun to watch too, all is good. Hope everyone had a great day today, I did - training my dogs!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Why do you care what he thinks now hes going to make up all sorts of shit about this lady's pup and your going to say...... oh

Don't worry Mike, I am sure it is just a Sch dog, and you can impress then with the power of your training. Just slap the dog on the table. RIght Mike ?? Get a better "grip" out of it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Don't worry Molly, I am sure she will be carefully taken to the right trials with the right judges and get the right scores. 

You see, I am not sure how long it takes you to train, but it just doesn't take me all day to do so.

I have seen dogs that you have produced that I didn't mind at all, I didn't realize that making 7700 post suddenly meant I had to like that pup. 

I don't, just like I never liked Eagle. Why do I have to like the same dogs as you do ?? And why is it so personal if I don't like the pup you showed a video of ?? You like something different than I do. If my opinion was so stinking unimportant, then you wouldn't post BS about 7700 posts and sitting in front of the computer all day. You would actually ASK WHY I thought that. However, I don't think that would be a good idea. We like totally different dogs, and always will.


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## Anne Jones

She looks like a nice pup, Molly. Nice puppy helper work for sure. Not that you would accept anything less for your dogs. LOL There are so many helpers that do less than a good job with pups.

Sorry to hear about Eagle.


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## Molly Graf

Jeff, no I don't care what you think - because you have no idea what you are talking about. So no, what you say doesn't matter at all. You didn't "like" Eagle? Did you ever see him in person? Meet him? Work him? No? So why do you think your opinion about him would matter at all to me or anyone else? 

Where are the videos of puppies you have raised and trained? Dogs you have titled? Takes some work to do that, but you wouldn't know that would you. Doesn't take so much work and knowledge to spew on a computer keyboard, sitting on your ass. Walk the walk Jeff, or just talk. I think you just talk - or type.


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## Mike Scheiber

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Why do you care what he thinks now hes going to make up all sorts of shit about this lady's pup and your going to say...... oh
> 
> Don't worry Mike, I am sure it is just a Sch dog, and you can impress then with the power of your training. Just slap the dog on the table. RIght Mike ?? Get a better "grip" out of it.


Table!!!! my dog hasn't been on a table for 1 1/2 years 
Grips!!!! I mention working griping on my dog in a thread and now he has grip problems NOT :lol:
I brushed him today so now is his coat shit too. DANG](*,)
Jeff the table would be the last place I would put this dog if he had problems biting. Come to think of it I cant think of it I cant think of a good reason to use a table for bite improvement on any dog.


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## ann schnerre

Mike Scheiber said:


> Why do you care what he thinks now hes going to make up all sorts of shit about this lady's pup and your going to say...... oh


 
mike, i asked the question because i wanted an answer to it, andi happen to think jeff has valuable input at times--i was hoping this would be one of them. it seems however that this is turning into a pissing match and i won't partcipate.

i like what molly has done/is doing with her breeding/training. i don't think ANYONE is going to change what she's doing or how she thinks about it. that's JMO, from a few years of following her breeding/training/dogs.

i like what i see of Xephyr, but i'm not any sort of expert; i asked a question, that's all. 

and i didn't say "......oh". whatever THAT's supposed to mean


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I think it is funny that I have to walk a certain way to not like your dogs Molly. I saw the dog and that was enough for me. I am sure that you need references and all that, but I don't see anyone popping up and telling me what great dogs these two are. 

You can flop around all you want, I remember you were breed warden for a while were you not ?? I thought that was hilarious. I just don't like this pup and it is killing you. I have seen some of the pups you have produced, and you produced a lot of dogs for no apparent reason to me. 

If you want to get all butt hurt because of that, fine. I just don't like what you produce. 

Scheiber, it is all fun and games and you like it when people get stressed by others on this board until it is you. Show me some video of your dog working, what can the harm be ?? I am sure others would like to see your dog working.


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## ann schnerre

so jeff--would you answer my question??


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## Mike Scheiber

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I think it is funny that I have to walk a certain way to not like your dogs Molly. I saw the dog and that was enough for me. I am sure that you need references and all that, but I don't see anyone popping up and telling me what great dogs these two are.
> 
> You can flop around all you want, I remember you were breed warden for a while were you not ?? I thought that was hilarious. I just don't like this pup and it is killing you. I have seen some of the pups you have produced, and you produced a lot of dogs for no apparent reason to me.
> 
> If you want to get all butt hurt because of that, fine. I just don't like what you produce.
> 
> Scheiber, it is all fun and games and you like it when people get stressed by others on this board until it is you. Show me some video of your dog working, what can the harm be ?? I am sure others would like to see your dog working.


Our club MVSV is open, almost any one can come out as a guest and watch or train with us. 
In two weeks were having Dean Calderon "the first USA teaching helper certified by the SV" among a few other accomplishments come up and lend a hand with our young and new helpers.


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## Mike Scheiber

ann schnerre said:


> so jeff--would you answer my question??


I think he's going to be busy working on that threshold post for a wile.
Ann hes trapped in his ring world your asking about a Schutzhund prospect what do you expect him to say. Have you ever heard him say any thing positive about any thing????????? unless it had something to do with a ring sport.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Our club MVSV is open, almost any one can come out as a guest and watch or train with us.

Pathetic. Of course we will all travel there. After all, no one takes video. Just a simple video, I am sure that you have asked to see other peoples dogs work.

Anne, you can like the dog all you want. I just don't.


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## Mike Scheiber

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Our club MVSV is open, almost any one can come out as a guest and watch or train with us.
> 
> Pathetic. Of course we will all travel there. After all, no one takes video. Just a simple video, I am sure that you have asked to see other peoples dogs work.
> 
> Anne, you can like the dog all you want. I just don't.


Jeff here's the deal plain and simple I play here I don't train here I seldom give or offer advice but I often voice my opinion. I ain't nothing special I got a decent dog and I'm a 1/2 assed trainer who's lucky enough the train with and surround my self with some great trainers.
And I cant walk past a car with a yappy little Shihtzu with out tapping on the window:mrgreen:


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## Joby Becker

Looked again. Nice pup. Didn't see the low thresholds but what do I know...maybe the 6 month old pup should have tried to kill the helper for attempting to take the toy in the prey guarding....:-$


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## Joby Becker

Mike Scheiber said:


> Jeff here's the deal plain and simple I play here I don't train here I seldom give or offer advice but I often voice my opinion. I ain't nothing special I got a decent dog and I'm a 1/2 assed trainer who's lucky enough the train with and surround my self with some great trainers.
> And I cant walk past a car with a yappy little Shihtzu with out tapping on the window:mrgreen:


not kidding...I just had to "save" my dog on a walk from a yappy shit-zu about 30 minutes ago, running around in the street, came right up to us ready to fight..I fell on the ice and busted my ass. LOL last night it was a chihuahua....GRRRRRRRRRR


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## Molly Graf

No Jeff - I don't care what you think about this pup or any of my dogs. I don't care because you aren't someone with any knowledge valuable enough to care about. Like my dogs or don't - your input is not interesting to me at all. And yes, I am the Regional Breed Warden and have been for many years now. Funny? Oh well... so what have you done? I must have missed that in your posts here - any videos of your super dogs, or your super training? Would love to see.


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## Joby Becker

Molly Graf said:


> No Jeff - I don't care what you think about this pup or any of my dogs. I don't care because you aren't someone with any knowledge valuable enough to care about. Like my dogs or don't - your input is not interesting to me at all. And yes, I am the Regional Breed Warden and have been for many years now. Funny? Oh well... so what have you done? I must have missed that in your posts here - any videos of your super dogs, or your super training? Would love to see.


Videos on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JeffOehlsen#g/u


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## Joby Becker

Joby Becker said:


> Looked again. Nice pup. Didn't see the low thresholds but what do I know...maybe the 6 month old pup should have tried to kill the helper for attempting to take the toy in the prey guarding....:-$


Meant HIGH not low


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## Molly Graf

This is interesting - Jeff's 6 month old puppy "working"... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zngkSO8Nz2A

Jeff, if this is what you compare to my puppy - no wonder you don't like her. wow.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

My GOD molly, you should have seen the thread that accompanied this video, you would have seen what I had to say about his thresholds, and how I don't like them.

But I guess you didn't read that thread. LOL Funny, I don't like the dog either. Doesn't it suck that he is a dog that I do not like and he is still better than that sleeve sucker Eagle ?? Show us some more herding videos. HA HA

Quote: 
No Jeff - I don't care what you think about this pup or any of my dogs. I don't care because you aren't someone with any knowledge valuable enough to care about.

Thats funny, cause I think you know **** all about dogs as well. How many litters have you produced of dull ass boring dogs. I know plenty of people that have gotten dogs from you, or trained pups out of your litters that were dull.


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## Molly Graf

That's funny Jeff - the people who own my dogs and work them, along with the trainers they work with, all seem to like them, very much in fact 

molly


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## Molly Graf

And the puppy Jeff showed - was that YOUR puppy Jeff? Piece of crap. That's what I think of him - but what do I know LOLOLOL Do you have a video of a puppy YOU own, that you do like? Let's see it.


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## hillel schwartzman

OH THIS IS GOING TO BE FUN FOLKS LOL#-o


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Why yes I do. Esko is my dog, and I concur he is at best a shitter. However, from what I have seen of your breedings he is the ****ing gold standard to which you should strive to achieve.


I was going to video an Eagle son, but couldn't find one that worked worth two ****s either. Just a bunch of sleeve suckers. Show that video again where he hangs on the sleeve like a dead lamprey......Oh wait, that would be all of them.

Tell us all again as we wait in rapture about how your sleeve sucking dog managed to pass the easiest test in dogsport 25 TIMES !!! That is SOOOOOO Awesome. 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Quote: That's funny Jeff - the people who own my dogs and work them, along with the trainers they work with, all seem to like them, very much in fact 

Yes, of course they do. I see after so many years of breeding all kinds of people rushing to defend your program.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I have to ask, you got 40 titled dogs out of your breedings. Want to be more specific ?? LOL


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## Joby Becker

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JeffOehlsen#p/u/13/zngkSO8Nz2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHfqD2QhKAo

Watched them both, interesting to compare. Both nice dogs IMHO, videos are of similar length. Dogs are about the same age. 

Things I looked at...

Which pup keeps his eye on the prey object more?
Which dog had more intensity in the bark?
Which dog lets slack in the line, which one is always moving forward?
Which pup keeps "eye" contact more with the helper while on the bite?
Which dog seems to have more drive?
Which dog looks back at his handler more often?
Which dog holds the object better after it is released by the helper?

Didn't even think about thresholds at all.

Both seem like good dogs to me, but what the hell do I know....gotta go do something with my dog, she's going nuts from hearing the clatter stick in the video.


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## Leslie Patterson

Cute puppy! Have fun with her!


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## Molly Graf

Thanks, having a great deal of fun with this pup. I like her a lot as does everyone (except Jeff) who sees her.

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen

And look at all the name calling when I didn't like the dog.I have a feeling that there are plenty out there that just didn't want to hear you run your mouth if they disagreed.

Good thing there are hordes of clueless that will line up to smootch your butt over this video.


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## Molly Graf

LOL Jeff - hey where are the videos of puppies (puppy? isn't there even one?) you have raised, that you actually like? I'd love to see, so I can learn what to look for (LOLOLOL) - and, also names of dogs you have actually titled, or tried to? Or don't you do that either. Just type on a computer - you are definately pretty good at that. 

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You know what I could do ?? I could breed and sell hundreds of shitters to pay for the few out of those hundreds that could sorta work. I could be breed warden and become one of the largest jokes on the east coast.

You let dogs ****, and think I should be on my knees kissing your ass because you speak. I am sure that I will be in PA again soon. I will bring a video camera, and you can watch shitter after shitter from your kennel get run off the field by me.

Then you can post about how I sit behind the computer. Why don't you tell us all about Eagles 25 times as a Sch3 ?? You could make it like a bedtime story, where we all sit around in a circle and you tell us how amazing your dogs are. 

You could get a really tall book as a prop to help sell the stoy time idea. 

That would be AWESOME. Meanwhile, I will just sit here and tear apart your concepts of what a dog is.

Most of the time, when I talk about shitter breeders filling the world with sub standard dogs, I am talking about you. How many litters have you infested the US with ?? Bound to be at least one or two that are average.

The funny thing is that you let dogs ****, and we are all supposed to bow to your knowledge.

Let me make a little challege for you, and I will give you a head start. You take one of your high threshold shitters and get a ring 3 on it, and I will take everything back.

How does it feel to know that after all these years, you have not bred a dog that can do that ?? After all this time training, it is still the guys that are training your dog, and you still suck as a handler. Yes, I watched the video of your dog bouncing like a queer cheerleader, and the OB for bites afterwards ?? You have been doing this HOW LONG ??


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## Steve Strom

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You know what I could do ?? I could breed and sell hundreds of shitters to pay for the few out of those hundreds that could sorta work. I could be breed warden and become one of the largest jokes on the east coast.
> 
> You let dogs ****, and think I should be on my knees kissing your ass because you speak. I am sure that I will be in PA again soon. I will bring a video camera, and you can watch shitter after shitter from your kennel get run off the field by me.
> 
> Then you can post about how I sit behind the computer. Why don't you tell us all about Eagles 25 times as a Sch3 ?? You could make it like a bedtime story, where we all sit around in a circle and you tell us how amazing your dogs are.
> 
> You could get a really tall book as a prop to help sell the stoy time idea.
> 
> That would be AWESOME. Meanwhile, I will just sit here and tear apart your concepts of what a dog is.
> 
> Most of the time, when I talk about shitter breeders filling the world with sub standard dogs, I am talking about you. How many litters have you infested the US with ?? Bound to be at least one or two that are average.
> 
> The funny thing is that you let dogs ****, and we are all supposed to bow to your knowledge.
> 
> Let me make a little challege for you, and I will give you a head start. You take one of your high threshold shitters and get a ring 3 on it, and I will take everything back.
> 
> How does it feel to know that after all these years, you have not bred a dog that can do that ?? After all this time training, it is still the guys that are training your dog, and you still suck as a handler. Yes, I watched the video of your dog bouncing like a queer cheerleader, and the OB for bites afterwards ?? You have been doing this HOW LONG ??


Or if you didnt want to do all that, you could have a beer and talk about how much you both hate Esko.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I just had that conversation yesterday. I need to get that on film. It was pretty funny, and sad as it may seem, he is a better dog than beagle for sure.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I have to admit, and I have said it before, I absolutely hate when they put some amount of times after their Sch3. 

Also, if you want to have some fun, go and count how many dogs on her site after all these years of breeding have Sch titles and not some goof.


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## Bob Scott

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)


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## Molly Graf

Ring sport - and this is better/more impressive than Schutzhund - how? Ring SPORT - because real bad guys dress like clowns and throw empty plastic bottles? Righto. Because, Jeff, Schutzhund happens to be my "sport of choice" - like ring SPORT is apparently yours. Have you titled a dog in ring SPORT Jeff? How many? How many dogs do you know (and hate) that are 25X Schh3 titled - or 25X Ring 3 titled? Certainly not with many (if any) home-field or chosen-judge scores in the <three score books> filled with respectable scores, with most National-and international-level trial helpers - most of whom praised the dog? LOL Jeff I think you are just jealous. Maybe someday you will get a good dog and then maybe you will stop being so bitter.
I feel sorry for you.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Have I mentioned that Eagle was the reason the term "sleeve sucker" was coined ??

I find it amusing that you feel sorry for me. That is awesome, must be coming to the end of the line of creativity for you. 

Everytime I talk about chick breeders and the culls they produce, guess who I am thinking of first ??

Again I have to mention the sad handling that you displayed in that video. I really liked how the dog with the decoy making all that noise was lost when you sent him. I was especially impressed with his lack of speed, and his poor intensity.


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## Molly Graf

Whatever you say, Jeff who has never titled a dog or owned a dog that could be titled - whatever you say means nothing, coming from someone who has not one clue what he's talking about.

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Yes, I am sure if you repeat that enough it will come true for you. Just say it over and over out loud. LOL

I find it amusing that you are so horrified that I do not like this pup. Notice how you saw the video of Esko, and didn't like him, and I agreed ?? Did you notice how I did not get all fired up and emotional ?? 

If you look at the basic personality type that you are exhibiting, one could extrapolate the theory that kennel blindness would also be part of that type of personality.


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## Harry Keely

Molly,
Since you seem to be so hung up on 25X3 SCH 3, do you think a dog with no sport title is any good, Just a theoretical question that I would like to hear a answer from you on?
Thanks
Harry


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## Molly Graf

No Jeff, it's you that don't listen or read. I said, and I repeat - I don't care what you think about my dogs. I. don't. care. Because you are an "armchair expert" or in this case an internet trainer - not someone whose opinion I would possibly have a reason to care about.

molly


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## Molly Graf

Harry - sure sport is just a sport. I look at every dog for what it is - titles or not, if it's a good dog it's a good dog, if it's not then it's not. Titles in any sport or venue can prove what the dog has to bring to the table, or the training can show what it has hidden in the closet. But in the end the dog is what it is, titles or not. When I look at a dog I like to see what it is in all regards - temperament, structure, nerve, drive, focus - trainability, athletic ability, agility - I like to see it in training so I can see what the dog is all about, in prey, under pressure - then I can know for myself if the dog is one I like or don't like, would own myself or not - hope that answers your question. 

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen

yet you respond over and over. LOL Get over yourself, not everyone is gonna like a sleeve sucker. Just basic facts.


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## Harry Keely

Molly Graf said:


> Harry - sure sport is just a sport. I look at every dog for what it is - titles or not, if it's a good dog it's a good dog, if it's not then it's not. Titles in any sport or venue can prove what the dog has to bring to the table, or the training can show what it has hidden in the closet. But in the end the dog is what it is, titles or not. When I look at a dog I like to see what it is in all regards - temperament, structure, nerve, drive, focus - trainability, athletic ability, agility - I like to see it in training so I can see what the dog is all about, in prey, under pressure - then I can know for myself if the dog is one I like or don't like, would own myself or not - hope that answers your question.
> 
> molly


As far as realism gos you cant justify a schutzhund dog being the same as a ring dog or police dog or MWD, etc.... Let me ask you something Schutzhund is touching the outer shell of all dog sports I would never send a ring dog down field or street / war dog down field on a schutzhund decoy just hold a sleeve. Most likely the decoys going to get tagged. But I would in a heartbeat send a schutzhund dog down field on any of the others and most likely that dogs is going to be like what the hell do I do now. So yes schutzhund nice and all but its not anyway or form real life based situated, bitework isn't because most of them are sleeve happy dopes and once the sleeve is slipped are still running around in circles with the sleeve in their mouths and are ignoring the guys thats still trying to agitate them and pissed them off. Granted there are the ones that will spit it out and nail you but I'm going off a overall pic of that venue.


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## Molly Graf

Schutzhund is a sport just like ring and mondio are sports - just different training, more and less and different. To each their own. I work hard in my sport of choice and my sport of choice is Schutzhund. I like a dog who is balanced in temperament and drives - one that is comfortable and not edgy in public, one that can live in the house, and still bring power and intensity and aggression in the gripwork. I don't personally like a "prey monster" or a dog that is only working for the sleeve, or for the toy. I also don't like a dog with thin nerves who would bite the helper in the face given a half of a chance or growls on the sleeve, or one that screams or spins or shows that they can't handle their own drives. I believe you can find either extreme in schutzhund, ring or any other sport. Yes, there are even police dogs that don't "really" bite or who work for the toy  - are they a great police dog? Maybe not for breeding.. but can they do the job? Maybe so. Each dog should be judged individually, and the training should bring out what they have inside, good and bad. The trial scenario is only a test of that moment - it's the training that should be looked at more than who is standing on the podium.

molly


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## Harry Keely

Molly Graf said:


> Schutzhund is a sport just like ring and mondio are sports - just different training, more and less and different. To each their own. I work hard in my sport of choice and my sport of choice is Schutzhund. I like a dog who is balanced in temperament and drives - one that is comfortable and not edgy in public, one that can live in the house, and still bring power and intensity and aggression in the gripwork. I don't personally like a "prey monster" or a dog that is only working for the sleeve, or for the toy. I believe you can find either extreme in schutzhund, ring or any other sport. Yes, there are even police dogs that don't "really" bite or who work for the toy  - are they a great police dog? Maybe not for breeding.. but can they do the job? Maybe so. Each dog should be judged individually, and the training should bring out what they have inside, good and bad. The trial scenario is only a test of that moment - it's the training that should be looked at more than who is standing on the podium.
> 
> molly


Can't disagree there with the podium stuff. Yes it should be based on the individual dog, but no theres no comparison of schutzhund being any comparison to any other bite discipline out there sorry. I was at the WUSV 2008 and was not amused with the bitework I saw there. I've seen better bitework at local trials that were not schutzhund. Been around awhile and been to alot of places and have seen alot of dogs and theres no comparison at all between ring and schutzhund.


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## Molly Graf

sure there is comparison. Ring is not something I am personally interested in - I find it very boring. But that's just me. Schutzhund trial is a trial - everything is coreographed, and chances are the dogs that stand on the podium are not the strongest dogs out there. There are strong dogs in Schutzhund, there are also weak dogs. I think there are the same variation in any sport, including ring sport. For me, there is no "better or best" only different choices for different people, what they choose to do with the dogs they have.

molly


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## Harry Keely

Molly Graf said:


> sure there is comparison. Ring is not something I am personally interested in - I find it very boring. But that's just me. Schutzhund trial is a trial - everything is coreographed, and chances are the dogs that stand on the podium are not the strongest dogs out there. There are strong dogs in Schutzhund, there are also weak dogs. I think there are the same variation in any sport, including ring sport. For me, there is no "better or best" only different choices for different people, what they choose to do with the dogs they have.
> 
> molly


O.K. I agree theres strong and weaker ones in every discipline involving the working dog world. At ths ame time I wouldn't bet to much on a good chunk of SCH dogs being able to do any of the others. But I believe that a good chunk of them from other backrounds could easily do SCH. Let me ask you something do you think your SCH dogs could honestly be ring,KNPV or street / war dogs and be honest. I have seen your dogs before and your lines!!!


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## Molly Graf

I do think many of them could. Some of them couldn't. I see ring dogs that definately couldn't - others that maybe could. Hard to say, after all - they are not trained to bite without a sleeve. Have my dogs bitten without a sleeve? why, yes they have! Some of them are in fact police K9s, PP dogs, and dogs that do PP training for fun and sport. - it's all good as long as the handler and the dog are having a good time and enjoying the training IMO.

In fact Eagle the "sleeve sucker" and I went through a police K9 training and certifying class, right alongside officers and their K9s - and he did very very well - in fact had I been an officer and he a K9, he would have passed every test, with "flying colors". I may not have, but he would have. He also was trained for HRD. He also did some herding. He was also my companion 24/7 since he was a puppy - not something many successful dogs in any sport or venue can be. Never did ring sport - though my trainer loves ring and does employ ring sport training into our schutzhund training on a regular basis. It's great for the dogs to see variation.

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Don't worry Molly, we all know how lame the police dogs are. I have seen enough sleeve suckers to know this. I really enjoy how you try and make it seem like your dogs could do ring.

Quote: I don't personally like a "prey monster" or a dog that is only working for the sleeve, or for the toy.

Yet you post video after video of these very same dogs. Who do you think you are fooling ?


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## Harry Keely

Molly Graf said:


> I do think many of them could. Some of them couldn't. I see ring dogs that definately couldn't - others that maybe could. Hard to say, after all - they are not trained to bite without a sleeve. Have my dogs bitten without a sleeve? why, yes they have! Some of them are in fact police K9s, PP dogs, and dogs that do PP training for fun and sport. - it's all good as long as the handler and the dog are having a good time and enjoying the training IMO.
> 
> In fact Eagle the "sleeve sucker" and I went through a police K9 training and certifying class, right alongside officers and their K9s - and he did very very well - in fact had I been an officer and he a K9, he would have passed every test, with "flying colors". I may not have, but he would have. He also was trained for HRD. He also did some herding. He was also my companion 24/7 since he was a puppy - not something many successful dogs in any sport or venue can be. Never did ring sport - though my trainer loves ring and does employ ring sport training into our schutzhund training on a regular basis. It's great for the dogs to see variation.
> 
> molly


Somehow I just don't see that watching your videos on youtube Molly, I asked you to be honest with us and not honest within your inner self to look outside the box. I would never put those dogs on the street with a officer and lay my head down at night and ba able to get a good night sleep. JMO


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## Molly Graf

Most of the videos I have on youtube are of puppies.... IMO it's all about the training. You start with a good pup showing good temperament, nerve and drives, then it's up to the handler to put the correct training in to that pup, to make the good pup into the working adult that the handler wishes it to be. Without the right training, then no the pup will not turn out to be a great dog, or even a good dog, in the chosen venue. 

Yes I believe that most of my own-bred dogs could be excellent in any venue - including ring sport - with the proper training and handling. Not all of them, but many/most. 

I see ring sport as a game just like every other dog sport - the ring sport dogs I know I do not see as "go straight from ring sport to the street" dogs - they are out there having fun and playing the game. With few exceptions. 

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then. Assessing someone's breeding program or dogs by watching a very few youtube videos of puppies in foundation drive training, when ring sport isn't in the cards for them at all (or police, or anything - my dogs do schutzhund only) - isn't very fair. 

and Jeff, you don't have any clue about my dogs that are police dogs. Talking to yourself as usual, again.

Molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 

Yes I believe that most of my own-bred dogs could be excellent in any venue - including ring sport - with the proper training and handling. Not all of them, but many/most.

Absolutely not. You would have to stretch the imagination to enen think that one of your dogs would be anything but the joke that gets brought out to club. LOL

I liked that you had to add "proper" training. That is a good one, and you could always just say that the dog didn't get "proper" training.

Quote: I see ring sport as a game just like every other dog sport - the ring sport dogs I know I do not see as "go straight from ring sport to the street" dogs - they are out there having fun and playing the game. With few exceptions. 

I have already clearly shown you as a kennel blind breeder of high threshold dogs that have a very low chance of doing Sch. There is NO WAY these dogs are gonna do ring sport.

You are very impressed with yourself aren't you. There was a Police dog in Houston that was choked to death here recently. Was that one of your breedings ?? That dog had NO BUSINESS being a police dog either.

Quote: Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then. Assessing someone's breeding program or dogs by watching a very few youtube videos of puppies in foundation drive training, when ring sport isn't in the cards for them at all (or police, or anything - my dogs do schutzhund only) - isn't very fair. 

You meant to write that a very small percentage of your dogs do Sch, right ?? And it is fair to point out a pet breeder making noises like she produces anything of any worth.

Quote: Jeff, you don't have any clue about my dogs that are police dogs. Talking to yourself as usual, again.

So what does that mean ?? You think that no one is reading this ?? LOL

Keep showing videos of your pet quality dogs. This is good times. It is proving my point about high thresholds.


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## Daryl Ehret

_"In fact Eagle the "sleeve sucker" and I went through a police K9 training and certifying class, right alongside officers and their K9s - and he did very very well - in fact had I been an officer and he a K9, he would have passed every test, with "flying colors". I may not have, but he would have. He also was trained for HRD. *He also did some herding*."_

That's a bit of a stretch from a couple months ago...

_"Once in a while I let him in with the sheep, which he truly loves. He has no herding training, but shows a natural "instinct" for tending - you can see this in the video. I regret I didn't realize this before he was too old to pursue herding/tending seriously with him."_

I have a 13 week old pup who does typing, one of Jeff's does pole dancing. _No former training!!_


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You don't think that the two litters she has coming up have anything to do with all these videos ???????


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## Harry Keely

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You don't think that the two litters she has coming up have anything to do with all these videos ???????


 
Thats what I was kinda of saying to myself there. Trying to drum up some P.R. for herself before they hit the ground. People are willing to try anything to sell and make a buck in these times even if they are getting honest truth and lie to themselves in the mirror LOL.:---)#-o:-\"


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## Daryl Ehret

Only two? Every time I've visited I seem to remember three or four.


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## Molly Graf

LOL ok dokey - I need your help selling my puppies - sure.

Just trying to answer a question. Take it or leave it. You got my opinion as asked for.

Have a nice day.

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You can sell pet GSD's all day long on the east coast with the thresholds your dogs have. I am sure it is good business. There are pet shops out there you could get in contact with. I am sure they will help you sell off all those culls.

It was all fun and games and then all of a sudden, BAM !!!! The guy CAN train a dog, BAM ! ! ! the guy has titled dogs, BAM ! ! ! the dog he is working is better than anything you have ever produced in your entire life.

PS Esko says bite me. LOL


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## susan tuck

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> It was all fun and games and then all of a sudden, BAM !!!! The guy CAN train a dog, BAM ! ! ! the guy has titled dogs, BAM ! ! ! the dog he is working is better than anything you have ever produced in your entire life.
> PS Esko says bite me. LOL


Oh that's right you took 6 years to finally title your ONE dog to an MR1, wow, what a guy, what a trainer, what a record..........AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. Money talks bullshit walks so take a hike Jeff.


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## Mike Scheiber

susan tuck said:


> oh that's right you took 6 years to finally title your one dog to an mr1, wow, what a guy, what a trainer, what a record..........ahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahah. Money talks bullshit walks so take a hike jeff.


6!!!!!!! Ahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahah


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## Molly Graf

No Jeff, I am not thinking what a great trainer you are or what great dogs you have - 6 years for a MR1 eh? WOW!!!!!!!!!!

No, still don't care what you have to say. Not in the least little teeny bit. You know nothing about me, nothing about my dogs, nothing about training, and nothing about dogs in general. Get a life Jeff! 

molly


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## susan tuck

susan tuck said:


> Oh that's right you took 6 years to finally title your ONE dog to an MR1, wow, what a guy, what a trainer, what a record..........AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. Money talks bullshit walks so take a hike Jeff.


To be clear to anyone else who reads this: My above post was not meant in anyway to diminish the accomplishment of putting a title on a dog. I do know it's a lot of hard work, and is an accomplishment in and of itself - in any grip sport. My point is that those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. 

Instead of constantly putting down those who choose to work in a sport you don't appreciate and are not involved in and constantly spitting on others accomplishments, and constantly trying to fight with people like some school yard bully, maybe the better road would be to concentrate on your own shit, surely there must be some room for improvement - even you must be able to see that.


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## Al Curbow

I think this forum has taken a massive downward spiral.........too bad , it was the last good one.


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## Carol Boche

Al Curbow said:


> I think this forum has taken a massive downward spiral.........too bad , it was the last good one.


Unfortunately, I agree. 

I have to say that I find it humorous that Jeff can stir up this much shit. He must have a big red EASY button at home. 

IGNORE is your friend here!!


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## Joby Becker

Carol Boche said:


> Unfortunately, I agree.
> 
> I have to say that I find it humorous that Jeff can stir up this much shit. He must have a big red EASY button at home.
> 
> IGNORE is your friend here!!


LOL I have one of thoe easy buttons, seriously I do...

Mixing learning, sharing...here

and entertainment...which would suffer greatly...if the ignore was used. the first post I saw on this board were the ones with the jeff-mike-arko-connie cartoons...laughed my ass off...


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## Jason Hammel

Joby Becker said:


> LOL I have one of thoe easy buttons, seriously I do...
> 
> 
> and entertainment...which would suffer greatly...if the ignore was used. the first post I saw on this board were the ones with the jeff-mike-arko-connie cartoons...laughed my ass off...


Boy that was alot of fun. I laughed like crazy too. Until it was painful.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Look at the avoidance of the basic issue. I bet you if you had gotten one of her pups you wouldn't be avoiding. LOL


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## Guest

Al Curbow said:


> I think this forum has taken a massive downward spiral.........too bad , it was the last good one.


 
Agreed, been saying the same thing since the beginning of December.....


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## Connie Sutherland

Al Curbow said:


> I think this forum has taken a massive downward spiral.........too bad , it was the last good one.


So do I.

This is flaming crap.


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