# Police K9 killed in NJ



## Dave Martin

Police dog gets thrown into traffic after tracking down a suspect and dies instantly.. Really hope the scumbag(s) get the max sentence for this. I still don't understand how exactly the guy could've gotten ahold of the dog. Sad stuff..

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/crime&id=7818132

...


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## Jim Nash

That sucks . My thoughts and prayers are with the handler and family .


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## Don Turnipseed

One has to wonder how the bad guy could actually get hold of a dog with all that bite training. You would think throwing the dog into the traffic would be impossible since the dog had to have a bite on him.


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## mike suttle

Don Turnipseed said:


> One has to wonder how the bad guy could actually get hold of a dog with all that bite training. You would think throwing the dog into the traffic would be impossible since the dog had to have a bite on him.


The report said that the suspect (Robinson) was also injured by the car. This would allow me to believe that maybe Robinson swung the dog's ass end into the car while the dog was still biting his upper body. I can see how that would be possible. But the truth is there are several ways to get a hold of a dog while he is biting you. 
No matter how it happened, it is a shame. But that can be a tough job and sometimes shit like this can happen when you are fighting with a bad guy who has nothing to loose and really wants to get away from you.


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## Don Turnipseed

If that is the case, maybe the guyu was fighting the dog and didn't even see the car and is lucky he didn't get killed also.....or maybe not so lucky.


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## Jim Nash

mike suttle said:


> The report said that the suspect (Robinson) was also injured by the car. This would allow me to believe that maybe Robinson swung the dog's ass end into the car while the dog was still biting his upper body. I can see how that would be possible. But the truth is there are several ways to get a hold of a dog while he is biting you.
> No matter how it happened, it is a shame. But that can be a tough job and sometimes shit like this can happen when you are fighting with a bad guy who has nothing to loose and really wants to get away from you.


That's exactly what I pictured when I heard the suspect was struck also . I went back and watched the video and the Chief stated the suspect threw the dog into traffic as the K9 was attached to his arm . Sounds like the dog was going against a strong athletic suspect , local highschool football standout with possibilities to play some semi pro football .

The dynamics of a real apprehension can often be difficult for a K9 . Especially with a strong atheletic suspect . He isn't held back in his movements by a big bitesuit that also makes it easy to hold a grip . They often aren't done in broad daylight on flat grassy fields with the suspect running in a straight line .

In real apprehensions dogs deal with suspects would try to dodge the bite , curbs , retaining walls , ice , snow , rain , unlevel ground darkness often with the added strobing effect from the squads emergency lights caus shadow making targetting difficult . Large coats , multiple layers of clothing (around here the local scumbags where 2-3 pairs of pants during the winter since they are out and about committing crime and want to stay warm) . 

This dog made a 1/2 mile track to the suspect has won multiple awards and was the biggest reason this violent suspect was taken into custody .


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## Jim Nash

Don Turnipseed said:


> If that is the case, maybe the guyu was fighting the dog and didn't even see the car and is lucky he didn't get killed also.....or maybe not so lucky.


I'm sure that will be his defence .


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## Mark Horne

So what forced the confrontation in such a dangerous area, the K9 was off the lead, on the shoulder of a busy road, there was no threat to any other person. Why engage.

We don't have policies of arrest at all cost, so what if you followed him off the busy road at a safe distance, what if he got away with his $300 to be arrested the next day, which happened.

Real tragedy for the dog, would be interested in the thought process that meant the suspect MUST be engaged there and then; thank god the Hockey Mums weren't driving passed and swerved or we would had a human fatality.

It’s a grey world for the K9 but you are trusted to make decisions where you consider the overall impact of the decisions you are about to take and their immediate necessity.

Tragic.

Mark


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## will fernandez

you can what if it all you want. I am sure 95 percent of US k9 handlers would have done it the same way. I would rather it be the dog than one of my fellow officers fighting that suspect on the side of the road.


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## Jim Nash

Mark Horne said:


> So what forced the confrontation in such a dangerous area, the K9 was off the lead, on the shoulder of a busy road, there was no threat to any other person. Why engage.
> 
> We don't have policies of arrest at all cost, so what if you followed him off the busy road at a safe distance, what if he got away with his $300 to be arrested the next day, which happened.
> 
> Real tragedy for the dog, would be interested in the thought process that meant the suspect MUST be engaged there and then; thank god the Hockey Mums weren't driving passed and swerved or we would had a human fatality.
> 
> It’s a grey world for the K9 but you are trusted to make decisions where you consider the overall impact of the decisions you are about to take and their immediate necessity.
> 
> Tragic.
> 
> Mark


Doesn't really give that much information . You're a Police Officer right ? Ever have a situation evolve ? I've had over a 100 apprehensions with both my dogs and in every situation at the time I sent my dog I felt it was safe to send him , but there have been times as my dog was enroute to the suspect that things changed , sometimes I had time to recall or down my dog , other times I didn't . Only by luck did my dogs not get hurt and was able to get to the badguy .

You can " What if " any situation . WHAT IF by simply letting the suspects go they rob someone else and hurt or kill them . What If you let them go and in their attempt to hide carjack or break into someones home . What other types of crimes may they commit while fleeing . 

We are not robots and we can not predict things before they happen . We can only try as hard as we can to make the right descision in a very short amount of time in very dangerous conditions to begin with . 

What I do know from this report is that a K9 tracked for 1/2 mile , a suspect that had assaulted and robbed a victim and swung the K9 into traffic as the dog was bitting the suspect's arm . How they got to the roadside it doesn't say but in my experiance there are plenty of things that could happen that could lead them to being there without it being a case that the handler made a mistake . 

Things that make me think this K9 team had their act together , the success of the track , the awards the K9 had won and the Honor his fellow Officers showed him at the hospital and in the news . Until I hear something very concrete that would change my opinion I'm willing to give this team the benefit of the doubt at a very difficult time .


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## Mike Valente

Did anyone actually read the article?
Dude was a collage prospect running back, consider he was most likely wearing a jacket and he shrugs off hard hitting linebackers on the regular, I think it wasn't too much trouble to shrug off the dog and I believe they both were truggling and the dog happened to get hit in the proccess along with the guy. He was probably hiding close to the road the dog got him and he made a dash out to get away and both got hit, dog taking the blunt of it. Shit happens in the line of duty shouldn't be a surprise, seen video of an officer getting hit by an on comming car while he was writing someone a ticket.


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## Jim Nash

Jim Nash said:


> in every situation at the time I sent my dog I felt it was safe to send him , but there have been times as my dog was enroute to the suspect that things changed , sometimes I had time to recall or down my dog , other times I didn't . Only by luck did my dogs not get hurt and was able to get to the badguy .



Rereading my last post the term " I felt it was safe to send him " was wrong . I should have stated " I felt it was appropriate to send him " since there is an inherent risk to the dog any time a PSD is sent to apprehend a violent suspect .


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## Chris McDonald

I heard several different versions of this on the local radio stations several times. I don’t know what really happened. I think he released the dog on the shoulder of rt 42. My first question to myself was why did he deploy the dog along the shoulder of a busy street? I don’t think the guy was wanted for any hard core stuff like rape or murder. Its been a bit cool out so its likely the bad guy had a coat and or sweat shirt on. I would really think that could make a difference with the bad guy controlling the dog? 
But my answer to myself was shit happens and im sure we all would rather the officer go home to his family. Not that we want to see dogs killed but sometimes you only have bad answers to a problem and you just pick the least worst and hope for the best. I don’t want to use the word “expendable” but its a lot easier to get a new dog than a new father. 
Then I thought to myself, like always, It’s easy to say he shouldn’t have deployed the dog or he should have done this or that differently. But what the hell do we know maybe if he didn’t deploy the story would be different. Maybe the dog stopped the bad guy from jacking a car and a family, causing a bad accident, hurting/ killing someone. Then we would all be here saying he should have deployed the dog. 
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o>
I’d much rather have a crystal ball that really works than hindsight. Hindsight sucks…. And when I stare into my crystal ball I just see blankness. Kind of like when I try thinking hard about something, I just see blankness. That’s it for now on im done thinking


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## Ryan Venables

Mark Horne said:


> So what forced the confrontation in such a dangerous area, the K9 was off the lead, on the shoulder of a busy road, there was no threat to any other person. Why engage.
> 
> We don't have policies of arrest at all cost, so what if you followed him off the busy road at a safe distance, what if he got away with his $300 to be arrested the next day, which happened.
> 
> Real tragedy for the dog, would be interested in the thought process that meant the suspect MUST be engaged there and then; thank god the Hockey Mums weren't driving passed and swerved or we would had a human fatality.
> 
> It’s a grey world for the K9 but you are trusted to make decisions where you consider the overall impact of the decisions you are about to take and their immediate necessity.
> 
> Tragic.
> 
> Mark


I'm a former police officer, now in law school... and honestly, the worst part about this story is that the dog died and not him. That's how I honestly feel about this. I have absolutely no patience for bandits like this... I'm just glad it happened in the US and not in Canada... he would have received MAYBE probation and a fine.


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## Ryan Venables

Ryan Venables said:


> I'm a former police officer, now in law school... and honestly, the worst part about this story is that the dog died and not him. That's how I honestly feel about this. I have absolutely no patience for bandits like this... I'm just glad it happened in the US and not in Canada... he would have received MAYBE probation and a fine.


Perhaps my sheer frustration at the loss of a great dog got the better of me in the previous post. I obviously don't wish death on anybody. But I do hope they sentence him with everything the NJ State Penal Code holds.

Obviously these situations are very dynamic as Jim, I believe, has mentioned prior. I was bitten by one of our dog in a struggle during an arrest when the handler did not have enough control over the dog. Took me off my feet by my hamstring... but wasn't the dogs fault, definitely a handler error.

These dogs are programmed to do a very limited number of things, track, find the bad guy and stop him. They do it probably better than most police officers, and it is up to the handler to determine when it is "appropriate" (to quote Jim) to send the dog. I agree with most of what he says, including the part where, like most reports coming from the media that centre around police reports... what is reported is only what the police want out... I'm sure there is probably more to the story. Regardless, God Speed to the officer and his family, I'll say a lil prayer for the pup tonight.

RV


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## Don Turnipseed

Ryan, in regards to the conscience shown in the second post....that is why he would have gotten a slap on the wrist in Canada. On another note...lack of handguns is why the huge popularity exists in biting dogs for defense in Canada and other more civilized countries than the USA. In the USA, if people want to see sport clubs in larger numbers so they are more accessable, they need to outlaw handguns. Not an option. I don't have too see numbers but I would bet bitesports are gaining popularity in Austrailia yearly.


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## Loring Cox

Watch this deployment and count all the different ways this could have gone bad. 

http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?z=11&a=11501

This guy was not actively trying to kill the dog but if he had, it would not have been hard. When the dog is sent, the handler has a certain scenario in front of him. But by the time it is all over things are much different.

Sometimes I think luck is all that keeps us safe 90% of the time.


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## Don Turnipseed

Loring Cox said:


> Watch this deployment and count all the different ways this could have gone bad.
> 
> http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?z=11&a=11501
> 
> This guy was not actively trying to kill the dog but if he had, it would not have been hard. When the dog is sent, the handler has a certain scenario in front of him. But by the time it is all over things are much different.
> 
> Sometimes I think luck is all that keeps us safe 90% of the time.


Luck and staying the hell out of Hayward, Ca.


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## Loring Cox

Don Turnipseed said:


> Luck and staying the hell out of Hayward, Ca.


:lol:


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## Michael Santana

Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, if it has, I apologize. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0KVHUKYogw&feature=player_embedded#!

This one is a powerful one. Thoughts and prayers go out to the handler and family.


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## Keith Earle

Thanks mike for posted great tribute to a K9 .


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## Michael Santana

Keith Earle said:


> Thanks mike for posted great tribute to a K9 .


NP. 
Fact is.. The guy is going to lay there, countless hours, asking himself whether sending his dog was the right thing for him to do. Its a battle you fight on your own, and can only answer for yourself. 

There is no need to join him. We should support him and every handler that has lost his partner.. and not sit here and monday morning quarterback the situation as if we knew any better.


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## Timothy Saunders

did anyone notice that when they showed the dog in his trial that the grips didn't seem deep or full. maybe he bit the same way on the criminal and got swung into the car. just a different point of view.


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## Michael Santana

Some people just don't get it. ](*,)


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## Drew Peirce

and never will


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## David Frost

Michael Santana said:


> Some people just don't get it. ](*,)


It's why, as you said, those of us that have been in that position, just support the officer. Let the "arm chair" experts do all the deep examinations about grip. I'm surprised someone hasn't asked about the dog's pedigree.

DFrost


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## Jim Nash

Michael Santana said:


> Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, if it has, I apologize.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0KVHUKYogw&feature=player_embedded#!
> 
> This one is a powerful one. Thoughts and prayers go out to the handler and family.


That was very nice . They sure have done a hell of a job honoring this dog . Thanks for posting it . 

Having heard a little more about this incident I don't even think the handler will have doubts he did the right thing . As was thought by others here the incident evolved alot till the very end . 

R.I.P. Schultz .


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## Timothy Saunders

David Frost said:


> It's why, as you said, those of us that have been in that position, just support the officer. Let the "arm chair" experts do all the deep examinations about grip. I'm surprised someone hasn't asked about the dog's pedigree.
> 
> DFrost


 not an arm chair expert David just an opinion . It wasn't the grip as much as sometimes that is an indication of commitment. I have seen plenty of dogs go to bite but don't really want to be there.( not that this is the case with that dog). lastly some policeman fall in love with their canine partners who should not be on the force. Didn't mean to offend the REAL experts


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## Jim Duncan

David Frost said:


> It's why, as you said, those of us that have been in that position, just support the officer. Let the "arm chair" experts do all the deep examinations about grip. I'm surprised someone hasn't asked about the dog's pedigree.
> 
> DFrost


 
David, 

You are exactly correct. I went to the Memorial Service for K9 Schultz on Thursday. Myself and another handler from our PD drove from Va to NJ. We actually rode in the procession with the GTPD units. It was an incredible Memorial. There were about two thousand people there and hundreds of Cops. There had to be about 100 handlers with their dogs present. The GTPD did and exceptional job of honoring this dog and his handler. 

Regarding grip in a police dog, deep and full are not how we rate performance of Police dogs. That is a sport thing for ponts. Many times a shallower grip is often harder and more painful. Hard grips are what count on the street not deep and full. I can explain the anatomy of a dogs grip and how it pertains to sport dogs vs Patrol dogs if needed. I can also explain the mindset between the two and the gentic basis for a full grip. This thread is not the place for it though.

Jim


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## Drew Peirce

Lets find a place for it, really it should be a permanent sticky at the top of the police K9 section.......

On the memorial, outstanding stuff, even a new minimum mandatory sentence being proposed by a couple of local lawmakers, some good could arise from this tragedy if it gets passed.


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## Don Turnipseed

Drew Peirce said:


> Lets find a place for it, really it should be a permanent sticky at the top of the police K9 section.......
> 
> On the memorial, outstanding stuff, even a new minimum mandatory sentence being proposed by a couple of local lawmakers, some good could arise from this tragedy if it gets passed.


Oh yeh, lets make some laws to really make a difference. Like you expect anyone to sit there and smile while a dog is chewing on them.....any dog. It isn't going to happen. Drew, you wouldn't be able to sit there either so let's be real.


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