# Michelle Kutelis Thank you!



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Michelle referred me to Dr. Alex Stern in Sylmar, CA for my GSDs hip/elbow xrays. I saw the vet today, he is a great guy, was able to do them anesthesia free (well, 4 people held him down). They did a great job in positioning. I really like Dr. Stern and his staff, they are very good. Arkanes' x rays are off to OFA and SV/a stamp program. Hips look good to excellent and elbows look good too!

For those in So Calif, I highly recommend this guy when it comes to x rays.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Is there a clinic name? I need to find a new vet to do my xrays, I love my current vet, but that's one thing I don't think he's very good at (he'll tell you that himself), and it shows in the OFA results. Even with my dogs knocked out, it took him 4 tries to get x-rays of Kira's hips that were decent enough (positioning, clarity, etc) to send in.

What did he charge you for hips and elbows?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Hi Kadi,
Hips = $80.
Elbows = $80.
Duplicate films $30. (total for dups)

Five Star Veterinary Center
13725 Foothill Blvd, Sylmar, CA 9134
(818 - 362-6599 Dr. Alexander Stern

His positioning was spot on, first attempt, no anesthesia & my dog took 4 of them to hold him! 

Incidently, for anyone with GSDs SV is now requiring both hips and elbows for breed surveys AND although they do accept OFA ratings for hips, they do NOT accept OFA ratings for elbows.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Thanks for the address and price info.



susan tuck said:


> they do NOT accept OFA ratings for elbows.


I'm not surprised about this. We discussed OFA and elbows on a Belgian BB (http://bbs.sitstay.com/postlist.php?Cat=6,9&Board=BelgianShepherds use the search feature, there are quite a few threads about OFA) I read awhile back, and a lot of people were talking about the difference between how OFA does it vs some of the other evaluators. There are some people that swear by OFA, but just as many did not feel their readings were accurate. Especially dogs that fall into their "grade 1" category. 

I've seen the OFA results on dogs that they marked as grade 1. No reason given (they have places to indicate why the dog was graded as it was), and when called the person the owner spoke to at OFA wasn't given a reason either, just "that's what it is". In otherwords, "we rated them that way, but we can't explain to you why". In one case (the dog has now been dead for a number of years) OFA even admitted that a much more expensive test (can't remember what it was, but it was way more through) might indicate the dog's HD was caused by an injury, but they didn't accept results from those tests. Someone on the BB mentioned this same test and said it's much more accurate then reading just one xray, but when they asked OFA said they won't accept results from it.

My sister has a dog that was rated either Grade 2 or 3, can't remember which. On those x-rays I would say there was no doubt at all the dog had HD. So I'd trust a grade 2 or 3 rating as "yup, it's got HD" But I'm not so sure I'd trust a grade 1 really was dysplastic. And it sounds like other registeries aren't comfortable with OFA's results either. Either they think they are passing to many dogs that shouldn't have passed, or they are failing dogs that shouldn't have failed, I'm not sure which.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Michelle referred me to Dr. Alex Stern in Sylmar, CA for my GSDs hip/elbow xrays.


Just make sure you don't take the vet's x-ray evaluation as gospel (or any vet for that matter unless they are board certified in radiology). A friend had the very same vet tell her their dog had elbow dysplasia. They were panicked and were ready to send the dog back to the breeder. On a recommendation they took the films to a board certified radiologist who said they were fine, and they passed OFA with flying colors. I had a similar experience with one of my Aussies (different vet), who said there were no problems, she came back grade II elbow dysplasia. Unless the x-rays show obvious problems, best to wait for the OFA report for confirmation. 

Terry Fisk
www.showandsport.com
www.firecreeks.com


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I know what you mean Kadi. There has been much discussion about OFAs calls in both directions regarding hips and elbows. In fact, that's why I would submit to both OFA & SV even if I could breed survey with a passing OFA elbow score.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Radiology is totally an art. The anatomical knowledge that goes into reading them is super critical, but some people really have a knack for it. Fortunately, OFA's headquarters are here in town and we've got good radiologists at the vet school.


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## Lynne Gifford (Feb 12, 2008)

I also had this very same vet tell me my dog had lumbosacral instability and told me to put the dog down at 10 months. He's now 2.5 years old and doing just fine with no problems. I also know the dog Terry F was talking about and would say that Dr. STern is great, but if he tells you there's a problem, get a second opinion. (he also told me to stop spending money on import dogs because his friend breeds GSD's that never have ANY hip problems...something that annoyed me because every time I go in with a dog he wants me to get one of his friends dogs who usually are show dogs so we have the same argument every time about the fact that I want specific lines) BUT, for spending less money on xrays, prelims, and as long as you are willing to get a second opinion if he says there's a problem, he's great. I still use him for prelims, but will be taking my older dogs down to another vet with better equipment and actually get a digital copy of the xrays for their 2 year old xrays. More expensive that way, which is why I've used Stern for everything else.


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## Michelle Kutelis (Sep 28, 2006)

You're welcome, Susan. Glad you liked him. I think he and his staff take very straight, correctly positioned x-rays with little stress on the dog and no anesthesia. 

I never take any vet's word on x-rays, I found most of them have no clue, really. But if you want correctly positioned x-rays to send for prelims of OFA, I highly recommend him.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I just spoke with OFA - Arkane's hips received a grade of "GOOD" and his elbows PASSED. Dr. Stern had thought good, possibly excellent on the hips & passing elbows. Thanks again for referring me to Dr. Stern. :grin: :grin: :grin:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Lynne Gifford said:


> BUT, for spending less money on xrays, prelims, and as long as you are willing to get a second opinion if he says there's a problem, he's great. I still use him for prelims, but will be taking my older dogs down to another vet with better equipment and actually get a digital copy of the xrays for their 2 year old xrays. More expensive that way, which is why I've used Stern for everything else.


I just read your post. Cost was not a factor in why I chose Stern. I went to him because he has a real good reputation for getting excellent positioning without anesthesia.

Also the SV does not yet accept digital xrays and since I send to both OFA and SV, it's a lot easier to go to a vet who still has the old machines. I used to have OFA xrays done by Whitecamp, but he's retired. Dr. White (studied under Whitecamp) did my dogs prelims with his digital, but I don't have the confidence in him that I had in Whitecamp AND he couldn't handle my pup, had to sedate him!


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