# Buko and Soda PoP, no longer virgins. LOL



## Jeff Oehlsen

Sunday morning Buko decided he knows how to have sex. Gonna be interesting to see what "PoPs" out.

If you have some sort of interest in devil pups, just let me know.


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## Gillian Schuler

I don't have to. I've got 'em here in this "dreadful" country known as Switcherland!!


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## Candy Eggert

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sunday morning Buko decided he knows how to have sex. Gonna be interesting to see what "PoPs" out.
> 
> If you have some sort of interest in devil pups, just let me know.


Not in front of the child I hope?! :razz: Perverts!! 

As a former Marine, "Devil Dogs" are just what the doctor ordered ;-)~ Would we expect less?! 

Sounds like your place is going to be fun, fun, fun!! Keep us posted.


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## Nathen Danforth

Are both Soda Pop and Buko from loups du soleil?


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## Lisa Geller

congrats jeff,
I know you have been hoping for this breeding.


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## Chris McDonald

You got a lot going on man


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Not yet I don't. LOL


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## ann schnerre

you offered me a SoDaPoP pup. and while i realized it would be a mal, i didn't realize it would be a "devil"...

oh well, as long as it has pointy ears..


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## Timothy Stacy

Did you make a dog porn video?
Will they let you put that on you tube? LOL
Hopefully you get those devils Jeff.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Boy are you gutsy. A houseful of mal puppies and Esko??? You are really going to be lacking in sleep now. 


Terrasita


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## Jeff Oehlsen

The breeding is pretty close, so I expect some interesting things to occur. I am good with that. There was speculation that there would be a lot of overbites, but that was the litter with Ludo's brother, the "R" litter.

They are both Loups du Soliel unwanted (cept by me) 

Just know that I won't sell a pup that I don't like. I figured I would roll the dice and see what happens.


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## Daryl Ehret

Maybe you'll luck out, and it won't take, or only have a few.


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## Geoff Empey

Which titles are on Buko and Soda PoP Jeff? What does the pedigree look like?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Soda is not titled, I am not the one that is gonna title a bitch. Buko has his MR1, and we will see if he will go farther.

After watching what is being bred in this country, I am not really worried about the lack of titles. If someone wants to catch Buko and see if they don't like him, then they can bring their suit down and give it a go. I think that once they work him, then they won't have a problem with the breeding.

When he decides not to show his ass, he does very well in the exercises. It is really frustrating, but when it is a decoy he does not know, I lose control. He has a lot of conflict with what he has been taught to do, and what he wants to do. Something you would have to see in person I think.

I don't think that I will have a problem getting rid of the pups.

Quote: Maybe you'll luck out, and it won't take, or only have a few.

Why the **** would I breed the dog and hope that it doesn't take ?? You crack me up. =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Here is the link to the pedigrees

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/breeding.result?fadir=706514&modir=715104


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## Candy Eggert

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Here is the link to the pedigrees
> 
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/breeding.result?fadir=706514&modir=715104


And NOT one gay Schutzhund titled dog in the pedigree.......sweet 

I remember Ludo when itty bitty Laura Harris had him...one heck of a beast! She did a great job with him but he was always locked and loaded. This should be a nice linebreeding Jeff.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

If I get one baby Buko that I can start from a pup as opposed to ten and a half months, I will be happy.

Ludo was a weird dog. I remember a trip with Charlie to san antonio, and he was tied behind me so he wouldn't bother Cuchillo. I woke up with his head on my shoulder, he was dead asleep. When he did wake up, it was ear licking.

I was the only decoy in the club, and I remember him trying to rip my kneecap off more times that I care to remember. It is too bad that she decided to argue with him for 4 years over heeling rather than finishing his titles, something she needed to be a judge.


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## Geoff Empey

Judging from the pedigree it looks like a good match for sure. Hope it turns out well for you Jeff.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Well if it doesn't, then there will be some unhappy campers. : ) I won't sell them if they are junk. I know that Buko's line tends to get more drivey after teething for some reason. I just want to see what is gonna happen.

Besides, seriously, have you seen what is out there ??? I saw a pup the other day with no drive. Had to work him like an off breed. Good God.


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## Daryl Ehret

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Maybe you'll luck out, and it won't take, or only have a few.
> 
> Why the **** would I breed the dog and hope that it doesn't take ?? You crack me up. =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>


I had the impression you weren't trying to get pregnant. Well then, that's great! Congratulations


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## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Well if it doesn't, then there will be some unhappy campers. : ) I won't sell them if they are junk. I know that Buko's line tends to get more drivey after teething for some reason. I just want to see what is gonna happen.
> 
> Besides, seriously, have you seen what is out there ??? I saw a pup the other day with no drive. Had to work him like an off breed. Good God.


Do they have health clearances or are you into that? I was surfing the OFA site and didn't see them listed. Some malinois folk don't put stock in the hips and elbow certs, but I'm one that always gets the breeding dogs done.


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## kristin tresidder

well, it's brackett's formula on kain ot vitosha, so if he was a dog that had what you're looking for, theorists say you should get a bunch of him in this litter. of course, i don't know the dogs, but it looks nice on paper. you don't see a lot of breeding like that in the furry sport dogs...


good luck


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## Kristen Cabe

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> have you seen what is out there ??? I saw a pup the other day with no drive. Had to work him like an off breed. Good God.


A lady at my club breeds Malinois like you're describing. I wouldn't have a dog of her breeding, but she seems to think they are all that, and that PD's should be beating her door down to get puppies from her. All the ones I've seen so far have wanted little or nothing to do with a tug, and have been quite spooky around anyone but her (which could simply be from lack of socialization, I realize, but generally, 8-week old puppies out of working lines are outgoing and spunky, not hiding behind mama's legs).

She goes on and on about how AKC has ruined the breed, when hers don't do the work, either! 





> And NOT one gay Schutzhund titled dog in the pedigree.......sweet


Actually, there are a few. Notoire des Ombres Valeureux has a SchH2. Julia des Teutones has an IPO3. Raschka van de Haantjeshoek has a SchH1. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/pedigree/4/301707.htmlAnd, if you want to count it, Xtra Twist du Ciel Rougehttp://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/pedigree/716175.html has a BHhttp://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/belgian_malinois/pedigree/716185.html


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## Kadi Thingvall

kristin tresidder said:


> well, it's brackett's formula on kain ot vitosha, so if he was a dog that had what you're looking for, theorists say you should get a bunch of him in this litter. of course, i don't know the dogs, but it looks nice on paper. you don't see a lot of breeding like that in the furry sport dogs...


Kristin,
I'm curious why you say you don't see a lot of breedings like that in furry dogs. Do you mean Brackett's forumula in general, or specifically on Kain (it's also one on Fauxtois)? I don't think a 2,3 breeding in Malinois is that uncommon, not if you know the real pedigrees [-X

It will be interesting in Jeff's litter which dogs comes through more, Kain or Fauxtois.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Too funny, it is gonna be Buko that comes through. He is better than his father. His father didn't give two shits if you existed on the field.....well maybe one shit.

Debbie, Both dogs jump full height on the pallisade, and Soda does it like it is a joke. Health clearences are good if you have had some sort of problem with hip displasia. LOL

After years of breeding the dogs in pig suits as you call them, I figured out that the OFA is just about ****ing useless. So I guess if you were interested in a dog, I could x ray them for you. But, I don't recommend it, because after about 150 litters, I can tell you that an x ray is not going to tell you what that dog is more likely to produce. I had several OFA excellents that threw cripples in their litters. LOL Doesn't tell you shit.

I figure 500 buck for a pup, you buy it, it is yours. I won't sell shitters. If there are too many shitters in the litter, I won't sell any of them. Pretty simple.


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## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Too funny, it is gonna be Buko that comes through. He is better than his father. His father didn't give two shits if you existed on the field.....well maybe one shit.
> 
> Debbie, Both dogs jump full height on the pallisade, and Soda does it like it is a joke. Health clearences are good if you have had some sort of problem with hip displasia. LOL
> 
> After years of breeding the dogs in pig suits as you call them, I figured out that the OFA is just about ****ing useless. So I guess if you were interested in a dog, I could x ray them for you. But, I don't recommend it, because after about 150 litters, I can tell you that an x ray is not going to tell you what that dog is more likely to produce. I had several OFA excellents that threw cripples in their litters. LOL Doesn't tell you shit.
> 
> I figure 500 buck for a pup, you buy it, it is yours. I won't sell shitters. If there are too many shitters in the litter, I won't sell any of them. Pretty simple.


I think I'll continue x-raying anyways even if you can tell by jumping  I've had excellent results in Mals and Beaucerons evaluating family hip ratings. Excellent x Excellent doesn't give enough info. You must see the extended family.

No, I'm not interested - I have my hands full with D'Only and his little sister "No Name Yet" that I've held back from the recent litter. 

I've been reducing my pack recently. I have plans for 1-2 litter maximum for 2010...probably 1 Beauceron and 1 Malinois. 

:idea: I think culling/selection is very, very important in breeding, but no one wants to talk about it as it's the sad/hard part of breeding. Glad you are up for it. I wish more breeders would and also wish they would be careful when it comes to selling/placing females as many may get bred eventually and the pups end up not being evaluated, selected, etc.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

X raying is fine, I just found after years of breeding Rotts that it was ****ing useless. Drove me to drink many times. At the stage that I am with these two, I will just throw the dice. I have more worries about overbites. Kains retard brother threw them, but I haven't heard of Kain doing it. 

I think it is a good breeding. I have liked dogs that Micheal has produced, and the "U" litter seems to be horribly savage. Some idiot couldn't handle her dog, so one of them got put down after biting her in the face. ALL I can do is laugh about shit like that. If you don't explain to a dog that kind of stuff early, you are gonna have that happen.

The "J" litter seems to have done well. Buko is the exception among the boys, but that is more due to my not having a decoy most of the time, or the fact that he has to work on decoys that I am training to work him. Well that and he is a ****ing maniac. WHat can I say ?? 

Soda needs to show me what she will produce. I want to breed her to your Dexter dog after this. : )

I will show you how easy she jumps the pallisade, and you can show me your x ray. LOL


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## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> X raying is fine, I just found after years of breeding Rotts that it was ****ing useless. Drove me to drink many times. At the stage that I am with these two, I will just throw the dice. I have more worries about overbites. Kains retard brother threw them, but I haven't heard of Kain doing it.
> 
> I think it is a good breeding. I have liked dogs that Micheal has produced, and the "U" litter seems to be horribly savage. Some idiot couldn't handle her dog, so one of them got put down after biting her in the face. ALL I can do is laugh about shit like that. If you don't explain to a dog that kind of stuff early, you are gonna have that happen.
> 
> The "J" litter seems to have done well. Buko is the exception among the boys, but that is more due to my not having a decoy most of the time, or the fact that he has to work on decoys that I am training to work him. Well that and he is a ****ing maniac. WHat can I say ??
> 
> Soda needs to show me what she will produce. I want to breed her to your Dexter dog after this. : )
> 
> I will show you how easy she jumps the pallisade, and you can show me your x ray. LOL


I've found the jumping ability most of the time has to do with the structure and not hip quality. I've seen dogs with Dys-D ratings hit maximum jumps at FRIII until they get older. I just like to know what the hips are and that's not to say I would exclude a dog with a Dys-B as I've used B dogs before in Beaucerons, but I like to know and then calculate what to do from there. 

I don't even want to list all the pups of mine that there were "incidents" with <sigh> None that I've raised myself though. Many people just don't know what they are getting themselves into when they get a high drive, strong puppy and try to treat it like a human too much. 

I am in favor of line-breeding. I hope everything works out well. BTW, I like the Atos->Cartouche stuff combined with the Kim du Boscaille. It's one of my favorite things to do! :-D


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Never had a dog that could jump with bad hips. I also could give a **** less. OFA and the other rating have not put a dent in the amount of hip dysplasia, and it has kept a lot of real nice dogs out of the gene pool. That is an entirely different thread.

I figure 500 bucks, and I have to like the puppy somewhat to even sell it. No bullshit guarentees, no bullshit inflated prices, just here is your dog.


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## kristin tresidder

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Do you mean Brackett's forumula in general, or specifically on Kain (it's also one on Fauxtois)?



well, since brackett's formula is: "let the sire of the sire become the grand sire on the dam's side," it can only be on "kain." 
a pedigree illustrating brackett's forumla:








from:
http://breedingbetterdogs.com/articles/bracketts_fomula.html

i certainly don't disagree that fauxtois also has the potential for large genetic contribution, per all the accepted formulas of that type.



Kadi Thingvall said:


> I'm curious why you say you don't see a lot of breedings like that in furry dogs.



i'm not saying i've researched all furry peds to the ends of the earth - and mals are definitely where i've spent the least time. however, i said it because, well, i just don't see that much of it! LOL! of course, i'm not saying that no one out there linebreeds 'furries' either - that was one of the things that drew me to dick and selena's peds - because they line breed pretty consistently. however, that was also something that stood out about them as opposed to other DS breeders, to me anyway.


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## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Never had a dog that could jump with bad hips. I also could give a **** less. OFA and the other rating have not put a dent in the amount of hip dysplasia, and it has kept a lot of real nice dogs out of the gene pool. That is an entirely different thread.
> 
> I figure 500 bucks, and I have to like the puppy somewhat to even sell it. No bullshit guarentees, no bullshit inflated prices, just here is your dog.


In Malinois, I would say Hip Screening has not kept many good dogs out of the gene pool. In other breeds where one cannot be as "picky", yes. 

Maybe you haven't experienced it, but they exist. Ramsus, FRIII, Dys-D Beauceron is one example. By 7 years old he couldn't hit max anymore. Super working dog until then. Unless you were very good at movement, you'd never catch it when he was young except through X-ray. 

I wouldn't want a bullshit guarantee either.


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## Kadi Thingvall

kristin tresidder said:


> well, since brackett's formula is: "let the sire of the sire become the grand sire on the dam's side," it can only be on "kain."


True, but since Fauxtois is also 2,3, even though Brackett's formula is "sexist" LOL it would stand to reason she'd have the same genetic contribution as Kain based on the formula.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Maybe you haven't experienced it, but they exist. Ramsus, FRIII, Dys-D Beauceron is one example. By 7 years old he couldn't hit max anymore. Super working dog until then. Unless you were very good at movement, you'd never catch it when he was young except through X-ray

Or, more than likely, since I got 7 ****ing years out of the dog, I would not give two shits.

Just so you know, having a discussion on hip dysplasia with someone that works with Mals is rather goofy. I doubt that even the beaucerons could come close to the amount of hip dysplasia in Rotts at the time that I was breeding. It was 53 or 54 %, and that was out of the dogs that actually got x-rayed. It was more like 80%.

I could go on all day about how clueless most people are, since they are reading or hearing second hand, but I can tell you that I eliminated it from my stock. I didn't even have the "puppy was too fat" thing going. LOL Soooo much bullshit spread over so many years.

Then again, Soda better have a lot of pups, as I have a lot of people asking and putting down deposits. LOL

My guess is that they are gonna get a pretty damn good dog and not have to wring their bank account dry. How much do you guys charge for a Mal now a days ???


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## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ................
> 
> Soda needs to show me what she will produce. I want to breed her to your Dexter dog after this. : )
> 
> I will show you how easy she jumps the pallisade, and you can show me your x ray. LOL


No, that is not possible. :-| Dexter Lives in France Now.


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## Anna Kasho

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I won't sell shitters. If there are too many shitters in the litter, I won't sell any of them. Pretty simple.


At what point do you decide whether they are shitters or not? What's a not-shitter like? Curious.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Why is he staying in France ??


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: At what point do you decide whether they are shitters or not? What's a not-shitter like? Curious.

Are you thinking of breeding your Edoc daughter ?? Edoc is a half brother to Buko.

If you are, it might be a good idea to learn more about everything related to the breed before doing so. If you cannot recognize a shitter, then probably shouldn't breed.

What do you think might constitute a shitter ??

In this breeding, there is a good chance that recessives will pop and some of the pups will have some issues with overbites or some other weird shit. Breeding close like this tends to give you an idea of what recessives are in there, and shows you if it is worth it to continue the line. I am old, and I want to know if this line is going to crap out if it is bred tightly to. Why speculate when you can just breed the dang things and find out ?? I will tell you what happens. I am not afraid. : )


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## Anna Kasho

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Are you thinking of breeding your Edoc daughter ?? Edoc is a half brother to Buko.
> 
> If you are, it might be a good idea to learn more about everything related to the breed before doing so. If you cannot recognize a shitter, then probably shouldn't breed.
> 
> What do you think might constitute a shitter ??


 
That was more of a specific "you", I am curious how you select the pups and when. I am curious what you consider a shitter. 

I don't intend to breed until I have the room to keep and raise the pups I like, and that would pretty much be my main reason for breeding. To get the dog I'd want. The Edoc daughter in question is not really what I would want to produce, and an off-standard color besides, so I am not considering breeding her anytime soon. If my ideals change later on, then maybe. I am keeping my options open.

As far as what I'd call a shitter? For me, it is a shorter list of what I like, and anything else I would not want to keep... 

For puppies - I like a puppy without nerve/spooking/fearfullness, who is tail-up confident, willing to do anything and go anywhere, for whom I do not have to play cheerleader. I like direct action out of confidence, pup who doesn't hesitate. I like a persistant pup who will keep trying until he gets what he wants. I like some hardness, but learning from a correction, does not take it personally or hold it against me. I like intense drive, but not hysterically crazy - I like inner calmness and the ability to think. I like a pup who is not self absorbed and will push me to interact rather than wander off to lay down and chew something all by himself. I like a pup who will bite and play with anything with me. I like a pup who does not rush to meet and greet everybody like a golden retriever. These would be the main points. I see some of this in all my dogs, but not everything in one


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## Jeff Oehlsen

That is quite a list. I look at pedigrees if available and true, I look for low thresholds, and strong drive. What else I look for depends on which breed. But a lot of what you are thinking is what I am looking for. How many of your current dogs showed the traits you want ??

Interesting that you would worry about color in a breed that should ONLY be judged by working ability. ****ing girls. LOL

I don't mind startle, I mind a pup that does not go over and investigate right away, but not all the time startle, just that once, and then who cares for that "thing"

I am sure there will be some video for the people on the list to watch. I just go first come first serve. I tell you what I see, and there you go.

All kind of speculation right now, they could just produce a ****load of bad recessive shit, and the litter is in the garbage.


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## Jason Lin

Why low thresholds?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

That is why the Mal works better than the rest of them. Dogs with higher thresholds take longer to go into drive.


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## ann schnerre

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Dogs with higher thresholds take longer to go into drive.


beautiful! short, sweet, simple.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

PoP is getting fat, and she is putting up with Esko's BS a lot like Buko put up with hers.

I am thinking that since she is this big already, there is a good chance that there will be some pups in there. Good times.

I am thinking of the kennel name "du tuller rett"

I think that sums it up nicely. It is gonna be a wild ride. Can't wait.


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## Chad Byerly

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am thinking of the kennel name "du tuller rett"


I used babel fish and didn't get anything for French to English, and for German to English I got "more tuller save". What does the name mean? Good luck with the breeding.


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## Thomas Barriano

Chad Byerly said:


> I used babel fish and didn't get anything for French to English, and for German to English I got "more tuller save". What does the name mean? Good luck with the breeding.


Chad,

It means "you're kidding right" in Norway


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## Jeff Oehlsen

That is right. It is Norwegian. Sounds pretty good though.


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## Don Turnipseed

Getting back in the game Jeff? Your on the right track. European kennel name, titled dogs ....should be a sure thing. Puppies always liven a place up. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Anna Kasho

Love the kennel name.  Can't wait to see what you get.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I was going to do something in english, but "bunch of ****wads" was already taken. LOL

"Of the three stooges" is one that I am considering.


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## Don Turnipseed

Gotta push the American lines sometime Jeff. RingSport Kennels has a good "ring" to it. LOL Kind of commits you at the same time if your going to keep breeding.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

That is true, but I am not good at naming things really. Gonna keep thinking on it. I do like the Norwegian thing, as it is secretly smartass. : )


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## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> That is true, but I am not good at naming things really. Gonna keep thinking on it. I do like the Norwegian thing, as it is secretly smartass. : )


I like the Stelth Smartass thingy!


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## Bob Scott

"Onry Oehlson's Mad Mals" :grin:;-)


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## susan tuck

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Boy are you gutsy. A houseful of mal puppies and Esko??? You are really going to be lacking in sleep now.
> 
> 
> Terrasita


Oh joy, so now we will be hearing from not just normal grumpy Jeff but sleep deprived Jeff???????? I can't wait. 

I am thinking of that old mothers curse that goes something to the effect "i hope you have one just like you" only in this case payback truly is a bitch and your bitch will probably bust out 10 or 12 of those little hellions...............I shudder to think what life in your household is going to be like for a while. Jeff for the sake of your relationship, have your girlfiriend move out for the duration, or better yet, give her one of the pups to raise!!!!!

In all seriousness, I hope everything goes well for Soda. I am sure they will be wonderful pups.


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## Chad Byerly

Good kennel name.


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## Gillian Schuler

What about "Grumpy's Hot Dogs"?? Mondio or Fast Food, depending on their talents.

Good luck anyway!


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## mike suttle

Gillian Schuler said:


> What about "Grumpy's Hot Dogs"?? Mondio or Fast Food, depending on their talents.
> 
> Good luck anyway!


now THAT is funny!=D>


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