# Need some guidance for BARF Feeding a GSD Puppy



## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

I am feeding my 9/10 week old GSD raw as his breeder was feeding raw.

I am cheating a little and have brought Dr Billinghurst's R.A.W. BARF patties - I got the rabbit and Combo varieties. According to the box for his weight (about 8kg) he should be getting 1 pattie (227grams) per day with equal amount of bones.

At the moment I have been giving him the 1 pattie in the morning (with a good portion of mashed pumpkin) and 2 or 3 chicken necks - he won't eat his breakfast until he gets the chicken necks. When I get home from work he is getting a chicken frame - (about 300 grams still frozen) ... he acts like he is starving if he isn't fed by 6pm.

I was told this wasn't enough food for a puppy and that I was starving him. The box has the rate of feeding a giant breed puppy as 2-4% of its bodyweight (which is the 1 pattie) but I have also been told he should be getting 10% of his bodyweight in food - so last night he is got another BARF pattie with a little pumpkin with another 1 or 2 chicken necks. 

No matter how much or little you give him, he polishes off all his meals quickly (without gulping). Some nights he is still hungry (or just wants to sook) so I give him a carrot or a piece of raw pumpkin to chomp on ... with he either plays with or polishes off.

Usually once a week I also add some sardines and an egg to his breakfast. I am planning on giving him some brisket bones etc but want to be home to supervise just to make sure he has no problems. Some times he gets chicken wings instead of chicken necks.

In 9 days he went from 6.5kg to 7.8kg - some of that might have been gaining back some fluids as he was a little dehydrated after his flight.

He did have some issues with runny poos to start off with (when I was giving him the dry food) so for a period of time he was getting chicken breast and pumpkin ... and since he loves pumpkin I have slowly switched the chicken breast over to the BARF patties and chicken necks. He is doing nicely at the moment.

Is he getting enough ... or too much? Is there anything else I should be adding? Roughly how much should he be gaining in weight each week?

I was looking at slowly adding Royal Canin GSD Junior dry food as an addition to his current diet ... but as he had a tummy upset for a while after getting him I have held off doing that just yet. 

He is currently solid but lean and full of energy and expected to mature to 45-50kg.

The analysis of the patties are below:



> *COMBINATION Recipe for Dogs (Beef, Lamb and Pork)
> 
> Ingredients:
> 
> ...


 

*



Rabbit Recipe for Dogs

Click to expand...

*


> *Ingredients:
> 
> Rabbit, finely ground chicken bone, beef liver, whole egg, cultured kefir, broccoli, celery, spinach, carrot, ground flax seed, bokchoy, dried alfalfa leaf powder, beef kidney, beef heart, unbleached beef tripe, apple, dried kelp powder, garlic, capsicum.
> Guaranteed Analysis:
> ...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi, 

There is a rule that if you feed the pups and they run around afterwards, without squawking, they've had enough. If they lie down after their meal, they've had too much.

I must honestly say that I have never Barfed a pup (but a pup has barfed on me). I didn't give puppy kibble for as long as recommended by the breeders but changed to Royal Canine from Purina as it didn't suit one of them. According to what exercise they have, I reduce or increase the meal, so they suffer twice:twisted: 

Pups need protein as energy supplier but if your pup is healthy and energetic, I don't think you have to worry.

Here's a link but don't take it as "Gospel"

:http://www.mygermanshepherdpuppy.com/

As for maturing to 45 to 50 kilos??? Whatever you feed your pup, he will genetically reach his size. No amount of overfeeding will make him bigger but 45-50 kilos is no mean weight, unless he's got long hair:lol: 

Mine is 65 cm at withers and 43-45 kgs in weight but is very strong boned and well muscled but definitely not fat. For the life of me I can't imagine a 50 kg GSD.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Your pup weighs 7.8 kg. 

BER = 70 * (Body Weight in kg)^0.75

BER=305 kcal

Your pup is less than 50% of it's adult weight, so the factor for BER is 4.

4(BER) = 1220 kcal per day

From the guaranteed analysis, we can get a rough estimate of kcal

Crude protein, minimum . 13.5%
Crude fat, minimum . . . . 11.0% 
Crude fiber, maximum. . . . 5.0% 
Moisture, maximum . . . . 68.0%

Protein: 13.5 % of 227g is 30.65 g x 3.5 = 107.25 kcal protein per patty
Fat: 11.0 % of 227 g is 24.97 g X 8.5 = 212.25 kcal fat per patty
Fiber: 5.0% of 227 g is 11.35 g x 3.5 = 39.73 kcal fiber per patty

Total estimated kcal per patty is 359.23 kcal

You are adding 3 chicken necks. (Do these have the skin on?)

If they are skin on, this is an additional 446 kcal
If they are skin off, this is an additional 93 kcal

I am not sure what you mean by a "chicken frame" but assuming it is 30% bone (as most RMB's are), and no skin, a fair estimate is 462 kcal

So you are currently feeding 914.23 - 1270 kcal per day. So you are pretty close to your pup's energy requirements. If you are feeding the chicken necks without the skin on, you should feed an extra meal per day to meet your pup's energy requirements.

Good luck! It sounds like you are doing a lot right!


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Hi,
> 
> There is a rule that if you feed the pups and they run around afterwards, without squawking, they've had enough. If they lie down after their meal, they've had too much.
> 
> ...


The pup is always running around squawking as he is extremely vocal. He whinges when his food bowl is empty at any time :roll: 

Our current dog (7 year old solid black GSD) is actually 58-60kg ... I keep forgetting that he is not "normal" size for the breed. One trainer told me he should weigh no more then 45kg as that is the breed standard - he hadn't weighted 45kg since he was about 7-8 months old.


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

Anne Vaini said:


> Good luck! It sounds like you are doing a lot right!


Thanks so much Anne. 

I have read alot about BARF but had trouble understanding the ratio's etc - which is why I have gone for the pattie option for the pup. I wanted to make sure his diet doesn't affect his growth and there is so many people with options that it can get confusing.

The breeder's diet was purely raw and they listed what they fed only they didn't give portions etc

I will weigh him each week to make sure he is progressing well and will be keeping a strict eye on his physical shape.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Tilly Smith said:


> Thanks so much Anne.
> 
> I have read alot about BARF but had trouble understanding the ratio's etc - which is why I have gone for the pattie option for the pup. I wanted to make sure his diet doesn't affect his growth and there is so many people with options that it can get confusing.


I was confused about this too when I started raw feeding! 

The two nutrients we are concerned with most when talking about raw food (especially puppy diets) are calcium and phosphorus. Meat itself has little calcium and phosphorus. You cannot reach the correct proportion of the two, or get enough in the diet with just meat. But bone has an ideal ratio of the two. (Nature makes this easy.)

If you feed your dog "RMBs" (raw meaty bones) with at least 15% bone (like a chicken leg quarter) up to 40% bone (like chicken necks) you don't need to worry.

Do NOT supplement with calcium. Do NOT remove bone from the diet.

Does that clarify?


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## Carlo Hernandez (Aug 30, 2008)

http://leerburg.com/feedpups.htm

I have a 16 week pup and have been using this as my guide.


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## Harold Kuijpers (May 28, 2009)

Look at www.rawmeatybones.com for how to feed a puppy


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

My favourite books are "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" - http://www.kymythy.com/
and "Switching to Raw" - http://www.switchingtoraw.com/

With my pups that are around 10 wks, I normally feed about a cup of dry food in the mornings, this is soaked and used for scent pad training, and then about 1lb of raw in the evening. Then it's just a matter of keeping an eye on them and feeding more if they look a bit skinny and less if they look a bit chunky.

Best wishes,


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

I took the little boy in to the vet morning to be weighed and he is now 9.2kg - he has put on another 1.4kg in the last week. He is absolutely thriving on his raw diet.


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