# possibly a stupid question about KNPV dogs



## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

good morning WDF patrons,

I have been reading a lot about the KNPV dogs recently.on this forum and elsewhere on the internet. from what i have gathered most of these dogs are dutchie/malinois crosses. please correct me if i am not understanding this right. 

As i understand it when someone working with KNPV dogs breeds a litter of the crossed dogs the brindle ones are called dutch shepherds and the fawn/tans are called malinois. 

am i misinterpreting the information on this one?

sorry if this has been asked a billion times. I tried searching for it and got a lot of threads that go into long discussions abouts the various bloodlines of KNPV dogs but wasn't able to find anything that simply explained this for me. 
thanks.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

That is true


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

That is correct, when talking about non FCI KNPV line dogs, the brindle ones are called Dutch Shepherds, the tan ones are called Dutch Malinois.
The Dutch Malinois are not to be confused with the Czech Malinois, the French Malinois, or the true Belgium Malinois. All of these are very different types but you can research other threads here and find this has been discussed in great depth.
The Dutch dogs are not FCI registered dogs, they are simply a mix of the best working KNPV dogs that could be obtained with the main focus being on working drives, character and health.
In my opinion when you are not confined inside an "FCI box" you can open up a lot of possibilities to take working dogs to the next level.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

thanks todd and mike! with all the various bloodlines i'm trying to learn about i was pretty sure i was understanding it ok, but just wanted to be sure I had a full grasp on the KNPV dogs. 

my family breeds butterbeans. every so often we cross our family strain (been around since the 1870s) with a new strain. this gives the resulting hybrids some serious;y awesome growth and health charactersitics. we then backcross the healthier super hybrids with the family line to maintain our claim on the strain and keep the flavor and texture we have created but the outcrossed f1 hybrids definately strengthen the overall strain. in the plant breeding world this is called hybrid viogur. 

does the crossing of mali to dutchie in KNPV dogs lead to stronger more healthy dogs with hybrid vigour like in my beloved butterbeans? i know dog genetics are far more complicated than butterbeans but it seems logical to me (with my limited grasp of canine breeding).


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Yes, that seems to be the case. 

Check out this thread...

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f50/mali-dutch-shepard-same-dog-11765/


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

What a lot of people not familiar with dog breeds may not be aware of is that originally the Belgium shepherd dogs are recognized as Belgian Shepherds and broke down by variety. Mals, Tervs, lacks. UKC registration still does this. The UKC Mals I had were Belgium Shepherds. Variety Mals.
Further down the line the dogs start getting recognized and registered as separate breeds.
No different then many, many different dogs as they become "new" breeds.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

CKC (Canada) still considers Belgian Shepherd Dogs as one breed with different types, rather than four seperate breeds.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Europe also still recognizes the Belgians as 1 breed, 4 varieties. AKC is the only major registry I'm aware of that has broken them up into seperate breeds, and it was done at the request of the Groen owners for purely political reasons (they weren't doing so well in the show ring against the Tervs). There have been attempts to merge the "breeds" (I consider the varieties) back into 1 within AKC, but once again politics stand in the way. Which breed club would become "THE" breed club, people don't want to combine the club treasuries, some people object because if the "breeds" were recombined they wouldn't get to breed to as many of the other variety dogs as someone with a different variety (ie a Groen x Mal breeding can produce short haired black dogs, not showable, so the only IV breeding recommended with a Groen is to the Tervs, while the Terv people can breed to both the Groens and Malinois and get pups that fit the standard) and if they can't have as many options for breeding as someone else can, then they don't want anyone to have the options, etc. There are also the people who think having their variety associated with the Malinois will put them on the BSL lists faster.


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