# Adult Dutch still submissively peeing



## Tom Connors (Dec 30, 2012)

My 2.5 y/o bitch is still submissively peeing when meeting other dogs, no matter how young or old. I've basically ignored the behavior but now I am considering giving a slight correction or moving her out of the submissive position (obviously when this occurs on leash). Any suggestions?


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Tom Connors said:


> My 2.5 y/o bitch is still submissively peeing when meeting other dogs, no matter how young or old. I've basically ignored the behavior but now I am considering giving a slight correction or moving her out of the submissive position (obviously when this occurs on leash). Any suggestions?


What do you consider to be a slight correction? And why did you wait till she was 2.5 years old to deal with this? 

I wouldn't be to quick to give a slight correction to an already submissive dog when its peeing on your shoes, its bound to increase the problem, not decrease it.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've never experienced this submissive urination when confronted by another dog but I would not correct the dog. The first signs of submissive urination are laid back ears and crouched back. At this point you could distract the dog by holding out a tug and playing with it, taking it away from the other dog, maybe.

Corrections, however slight, could cause the submission to become a greater issue.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Touché Alice!!


----------



## Tom Connors (Dec 30, 2012)

Believe me, I have been completely ignoring the behavior with zero corrections. I understand the slippery slope of any stern correction. My idea would be when the dog is leashed just moved her away from the other dog, maybe with an "enough" (my command for stop doing whatever it is the dog is currently doing). I've been hoping she would grow out of it; three heat cycles haven't helped.


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Is there any need for her to meet other dogs? 

Is she peeing on a face to face encounter or just in close proximity? Does she warm up to other dogs after some time or does she continue to be submissive and uncomfortable around them? 

I would stop allowing other dogs to approach her and I wouldn't take her up to other dogs. Distract with focus on you when you can't control another dog's approach.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Wouldn't this be ingnorming the issue in the sense that the dog cannot go forward?

By distracting it, it would have at least a positive outcome in play.


----------



## Tom Connors (Dec 30, 2012)

I do limit her access to other dogs but between training and hiking, she is obviously going to meet other dogs. I haven't held up much hope for improving her nerves but was hoping someone here might have an idea.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I have one of my probably daft ideas. If all else fails, can you think of buying another pup, with the emphasis o n pup, maybe 8 weeks old - breed, size noti mportant. 

It maybe that your bitch will grow out of this if confronted by "weaker" house occupant?


----------



## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Tom Connors said:


> My 2.5 y/o bitch is still submissively peeing when meeting other dogs, no matter how young or old. I've basically ignored the behavior but now I am considering giving a slight correction or moving her out of the submissive position (obviously when this occurs on leash). Any suggestions?


Start by getting her in the area of other dogs but not meeting, just observing from a distance. Then start shortening the distance. You will need help from new dogs because you want her to meet new dogs by moving forward not the usual meet and greet. Walking side by side but not allowed to stop and get into that submissive mode. End by just ending the walk and going your separate ways. The more dogs she can encounter in this manner, by moving forward, the more her confidence will rise and the easier it will be for her to be around a new dog without her peeing all over the place. If you have to you can just find people walking their dogs and start by walking just behind them, but she has to get around a lot of dogs without ever controlling the meeting part.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Larry's advice is on the right track imo too
- since it's been going on this long, i will take it a step further and say YOU alone won't be able to fix this; the right kind of other dogs might

don't recall this problem being brought up but ignoring is has been a terrible approach imo 
...and i don't mean ignoring when she pees...i mean ignoring that she has a problem that she obviously needs help to get over that you might have been able to provide had you taken a different approach

i almost hate to suggest it, but this dog might need to go to a dog park. but if you decide to try that option, make damn sure you get some professional guidance before trying to go it alone

my .02


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Tom Connors said:


> Believe me, I have been completely ignoring the behavior with zero corrections. I understand the slippery slope of any stern correction. My idea would be when the dog is leashed just moved her away from the other dog, maybe with an "enough" (my command for stop doing whatever it is the dog is currently doing). I've been hoping she would grow out of it; three heat cycles haven't helped.



If she has been doing this from pup on out she is a natural submissive and will have a hard time getting her out of the submissive state of mind.

Add to that that the behaviour has been ignored for 2.5 years and you will have a hard time to get it out of her. I'm not even sure why you would want to get rid of it at time point in time? 



Tom Connors said:


> I do limit her access to other dogs but between training and hiking, she is obviously going to meet other dogs. I haven't held up much hope for improving her nerves but was hoping someone here might have an idea.


So appart from being a natural submissive she is also has nerve issues? (which doesn't surprise me in a natural submissive dog.) 

Does she pee with people as well? With you? BTW Tom? Even a strict word as correction will not be helpful at all. Your idea of moving her out of the submissive position and verbally correcting will do nothing more then emphasize her submissive character since she does not know WHY she will be corrected, no matter how slight the correction might be in your eyes. 

How does she do in her training? Submissive? Flinching?


----------



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Since when does correcting a submissive dog help build their confidence? Did I miss that memo? I get it that this is obviously a frustrating issue for you to deal with but taking that out on the dog is not going to help the situation and chances are will make things worse.

You would have much better chances trying to increase her confidence around meeting strange dogs (does this happen with all dogs even known ones or just strange ones) by building a more possitive association with the use of food if she has good food drive. Otherwise I see no reason why you feel cornered into allowing her to socialize with other dogs if that is a problem for you. If this was a dog aggressive dog I'm sure you'd find ways to tell the other people to keep their dog away or keep her away from the dogs with ob, a simple recall to heel and move past the dog will do.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"Larry's advice is on the right track"_

I agree, Rick (JMO) ....



Larry Krohn said:


> Start by getting her in the area of other dogs but not meeting, just observing from a distance. Then start shortening the distance. You will need help from new dogs because you want her to meet new dogs by moving forward not the usual meet and greet. Walking side by side but not allowed to stop and get into that submissive mode. End by just ending the walk and going your separate ways. The more dogs she can encounter in this manner, by moving forward, the more her confidence will rise and the easier it will be for her to be around a new dog without her peeing all over the place. If you have to you can just find people walking their dogs and start by walking just behind them, but she has to get around a lot of dogs without ever controlling the meeting part.


This. ^^^^^

No dog park for me, unless it's used as background with you and the dog outside the fence, as far away as needed for her not to react. Flooding is not the answer to this, in my experience. Neither are corrections. JMHO.

The time between "not meeting, just observing from a distance" and "shortening the distance" and the degree of distance-shortening are individual, based on no reaction from the dog.

This:
" .... meet new dogs by moving forward not the usual meet and greet. Walking side by side but not allowed to stop and get into that submissive mode. _End by just ending the walk and going your separate ways._ The more dogs she can encounter in this manner, by moving forward, the more her confidence will rise and the easier it will be for her to be around a new dog without her peeing all over the place. If you have to you can just find people walking their dogs and start by walking just behind them ... "

All JMO.


----------

