# ~ Working Dog Championships ~



## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Looks like a lot of entries with some very nice dogs  Good luck to everyone!

http://www.2010wdc.com/competitors.cfm


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I think I counted 48 Sch III's, wow.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

They think Sch is work ??


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I'll stay awake for that like the PGA Masters~


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Appears Schutzhund is alive and well!

I counted 66 entries so far.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> They think Sch is work ??


Those that can, do! Those that can't do Mondio :razz: \\/


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Oh yeah, what was I thinking ?? All the Sch 3 dogs that I have seen flailing miserably in the bitework in Mondio must be better workers. Man, I should have figured that out.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Oh yeah, what was I thinking ?? All the Sch 3 dogs that I have seen flailing miserably in the bitework in Mondio must be better workers. Man, I should have figured that out.


You must mean the Shepherds?!  Seriously I can only think of one competitor that has crossed over with a SchH 3 dog into Mondio. Are there others?

And I've seen dogs that were brought up in the Mondio program fail miserably too...just must not have been their day  

It's all training and exposure..no matter what the sport or field. I don't think anyone said SchH dogs were better workers. But that said I don't think a sport makes a dog either.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

But a sport does make a dog. Continuous repetition shapes what the dog is, regardless of the sport.

I have seen Sch 3 dogs that crossed and did not do well. The fact that they were trained to a point where they were likely to fail at Mondio is a different subject entirely.

The fact that the dogs are not strong enough to do the work has been an issue, but I have seen a dog that could have done the work, but the previous training was the problem. He was having trouble with the MR1.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Curious Jeff, have you seen a dog come from Sch and do well in Mondio?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Not one that started with Sch. Still waiting.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Hum after I get a Sch. III on my dog, I'll be looking for something else I'm sure. No Mondio clubs around though, I wonder how far Jerry's new club would be? 8)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Where is he at in Sch now ??


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Will be going after our Sch. 1 very soon, few weeks. Then maybe a II early fall and III Winter/spring.

Works been really slow so I've had alot of time to train, twice a week at the club and other days some OB and strength/endurance conditioning. Ready to move this along!!!


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> But a sport does make a dog. Continuous repetition shapes what the dog is, regardless of the sport.
> 
> I have seen Sch 3 dogs that crossed and did not do well. The fact that they were trained to a point where they were likely to fail at Mondio is a different subject entirely.
> 
> The fact that the dogs are not strong enough to do the work has been an issue, but I have seen a dog that could have done the work, but the previous training was the problem. He was having trouble with the MR1.


 
Ok, + 1 ;-) There are some strong charactered dogs brought up doing SchH, maybe because it's the only sport the trainer had, that I can imagine would do well in MR if they had been brought up in that type of training first. Of course previous training, lack of exposure to the type of pressure required for any sport will show the holes and weakness in almost any dog. I would say it would take an exceptional dog to cross from SchH to MR 

I do know someone who crossed over from SchH to FR with Border Collies. But I can't remember how she did. Then there is the neutered rescue mutt that did very well at the MR Championships for the MR1 ;-) Just saying ;-) 

For razzing you I had to type all this out.....fifty lashes with a wet noodle Mister 

Seriously I respect good/strong dogs and all sports. As we know it takes a lot of work and dedication to get it done.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm not familiar with the tracking judge but my goal with this dog is to get a V score in one thing or the other from Mike Caputo. It would also be huge honor for me to get a V protection score from Doug Deacon also if any one that has a Mali gets a V in protection from Doug will be in the Schutzhund Malinois elite.
Any way what I'm saying it should be a great event I wish I was there.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

candy eggert said:


> i do know someone who crossed over from schh to fr with border collies. But i can't remember how she did. Then there is the neutered rescue mutt that did very well at the mr championships for the mr1 ;-) just saying ;-)


ssslaaap!!!!!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Ok, + 1 ;-) There are some strong charactered dogs brought up doing SchH, maybe because it's the only sport the trainer had,....


 

Or maybe they like the sport better than they like Mondio.

BTW, where are all of the ring dogs that are getting schutzhund titles?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The one dog that had issues with MR, crossed over to Sch and got his three in around 6 months. Had he not done so, I am not sure he would have made it to MR3. 

6 months. At least I have done both, sorry if you get confused about which is harder to do. Maybe someday you will try a dog out in MR.

Remember, the dog couldn't get is one, so 6 months later he had his Sch 3. Kinda puts it in perspective, now doesn't it ?? LOL


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The one dog that had issues with MR, crossed over to Sch and got his three in around 6 months. Had he not done so, I am not sure he would have made it to MR3.
> 
> 6 months. At least I have done both, sorry if you get confused about which is harder to do. Maybe someday you will try a dog out in MR.
> 
> Remember, the dog couldn't get is one, so 6 months later he had his Sch 3. Kinda puts it in perspective, now doesn't it ?? LOL


Only if you knew/seen the dog perform in both venues. What issues it had in MR, scores/judge in Sch III, etc, etc.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The one dog that had issues with MR, crossed over to Sch and got his three in around 6 months. Had he not done so, I am not sure he would have made it to MR3.
> 
> 6 months. At least I have done both, sorry if you get confused about which is harder to do. Maybe someday you will try a dog out in MR.
> 
> Remember, the dog couldn't get is one, so 6 months later he had his Sch 3. Kinda puts it in perspective, now doesn't it ?? LOL


 
Now that everyones preceptions have been cleared up. Let's talk about actual competetion. Not just getting points for titles, but actually having to compete against other dog teams. What's harder.....beating 50+ dog teams for a championship or beating 4 dog teams.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

Wish I could go - nice sized competition. As far as the Ring vs SchH: I have GSDs, Ringsport seems very very tough on a dog's body, seems like a more compact dog like a mali would have a longer working career thean an 85 pound GSD. Especially the French Ring palisade! Yikes! Further more DANG the helpers must get beat up to all hell! There are OLD helpers and BOLD helpers, but no OLD BOLD helpers!


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

James Downey said:


> Now that everyones preceptions have been cleared up. Let's talk about actual competetion. Not just getting points for titles, but actually having to compete against other dog teams. What's harder.....beating 50+ dog teams for a championship or beating 4 dog teams.


But are your really competing against other teams. Everyone starts out with 300, the other teams don't take them away. Maybe I see this wrong.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Buko weighs 75 to 80 pounds. My ten month GSD does full height on the pallisade no problem. It kinda shows you that concern about that kind of stuff is the problem, not if the dog can do it or not.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The one dog that had issues with MR, crossed over to Sch and got his three in around 6 months. Had he not done so, I am not sure he would have made it to MR3.
> 
> 6 months. At least I have done both, sorry if you get confused about which is harder to do. Maybe someday you will try a dog out in MR.
> 
> Remember, the dog couldn't get is one, so 6 months later he had his Sch 3. Kinda puts it in perspective, now doesn't it ?? LOL


Sorta depends on who was trying to help this person dont ya think.:idea:LOL

You've done what!!!! lets here what all you've done?????? lets here what you've done to help others.
NO ONE has EVER heard of you on the Schutzhund field so if you've ever been on a Schutzhund field you must have stunk it up a hell of a lot worse there than Mondio :lol: Good god Jeff wake the **** up who the hell do you think your kidding. There's thousands of dog people on these boards as far as any one really knows they are your only claim to fame, come on big mouth lets here what you've done simple question that has been asked and wondered by many.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Sorry you get so upset about never having heard of me. You have a regular training club, don't have to train your own decoys, and stink up the field in a sport that is the same exercises in the same order everytime.

I on the other hand, had a great time stinking up the field, the set up was great, the people doing the trial were great. You see, unlike you who says really really stupid shit like "dogs only do what they are trained to do" are a bit too stupid for me. 

Go ask your training director how to respond, just like you ask him how to train your dog, which isn't working out any better for you, in a much easier sport. LOL At least I am out there on my own doing my own thing with a dog that is a pain in the ass. It really is too bad there are not more trials in Mondio, maybe I would have figured him out by now.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Sorta depends on who was trying to help this person dont ya think.:idea:LOL
> 
> You've done what!!!! lets here what all you've done?????? lets here what you've done to help others.
> NO ONE has EVER heard of you on the Schutzhund field so if you've ever been on a Schutzhund field you must have stunk it up a hell of a lot worse there than Mondio :lol: Good god Jeff wake the **** up who the hell do you think your kidding. There's thousands of dog people on these boards as far as any one really knows they are your only claim to fame, come on big mouth lets here what you've done simple question that has been asked and wondered by many.


I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for proof if I were you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And how predictable - as soon as you ask him for proof of having accomplished anything in schutzhund he starts insulting you. Easy to criticize a sport when you have never succeeded in it.

Now for real life, good luck to all who are competing in the championship, it will be an exciting competiton.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Why is it that almost every Sch thread turns into Sch vs Mondio, man this gets old!:roll::roll::roll:

So let's get back too the *"2010 Working Dog Championship"*


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> Why is it that almost every Sch thread turns into Sch vs Mondio, man this gets old!:roll::roll::roll:
> 
> So let's get back too the *"2010 Working Dog Championship"*


at this point over 25% of the posts in this thread are Jeff 
Yes very old


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I enjoy the sport of Schutzhund. I have good dogs, I am a pretty good trainer - I and my dogs enjoy the sport and have done pretty well. Some people are more competitive than I am - they use methods that I don't use, and yep sometimes they stand on the podium because of (whatever reason - better dog, different training methods, more training opportunities, more money, more knowledge, more experience,) - whatever. I just have fun with it, and because I am a decent trainer and I do have good dogs, I do as well as I can put the time and effort into training. The more training I put into my dogs, the better they do.

I also enjoy doing other things with my dogs (same dogs I do Schutzhund with) - I like to dabble in agility, AKC obedience, I train some for narc and cadaver detection, I've worked some in disaster and wilderness SAR training. I've even <gasp!> completed a police patrol school/certification with my "shitter" Schh3 dog - amazing!

I have been interested enough in Mondio and French Ring sport, as well as other "protection sports" to do some research - watch videos, ask questions and listen to the answers. However, there is no Mondio or Ring Sport in my area, and being involved in Schutzhund means not being able to travel far to dedicate myself to another sport at the moment. 

I will say, that having watched many videos of Mondio training and trials, I don't see the real challenge in it. It's just a sport, like any other dog sport. It looks like fun, challenging in the way any dog sport is challenging, judged on a point system just like any other dog sport is judged. But, comparing Mondio to Schutzhund in the way Jeff is - no, I don't see it that way. I see Schutzhund as being more challenging - it is far more disciplined, far more training involved to get the points, more competition, more competitors, more dogs.

If you disagree, that's fine everyone is entitled to opinions, but please base your opinions on fact, not bad attitude and jealousy. ok Jeff? You failed at Schutzhund, right? So, therefore it's a waste of time, it's a gay sport, the dogs are "sleeve suckers" and yada yada yada. If you had a good dog, and you were a good trainer (takes both), you would have done well at Schutzhund, and then you would have enjoyed it. Losing is no fun at all, but you know all about that, don't you.

Mondio is boring to me. Tedious to watch. Slow, the only exciting thing is the music playing to spice things up (it seems). And, unimpressive. I mean - Three tries to jump a miniscuel broad jump? THREE TRIES????? Come on. That is just like the three tries allowed to heel the dog 20 paces in the seiger show 'protection test'. I can't think of anything more "gay" than that. Except of course the much-bragged about "frontal attack" - oooooooooooooo he had to bite a giant pillow with a man inside it, while man holds giant pom-poms!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be still my heart. NOT impressive at ALL. Do you get three tries to do that? 

And how about that object guard? That's called training. Any trainer who can train a poodle to heel, could train a dog (even a poodle) to do that. Neat, and looks like fun - but really now - where is the challenge that proves the dogs are "real" or "bad ass"? Show me, please. Maybe I've missed it in all of the videos' of Mondio I have watched.

And yeah, my sleeve-suckers could do that and do it well, if I trained them to do it. Takes a good dog and good training, just like any dog sport. The pom-poms? No training needed. 

And Jeff, quit blaming your dogs for your failures. Or, have you actually done anything impressive with them in trial (you know, the test of your training)? Maybe I missed that, too.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I have a little over a year's experience in Schutzhund and just started PSA a few weeks ago (our decoy is also interested in getting certified in Mondio). What I'm noticing so far is Schutzhund is kind of like taekwondo and PSA/Mondio is a little more like Brazilian jujitsu or MMA. It doesn't mean that everyone in TKD comes from a belt farm and could never defend themselves or that everyone that does BJJ or MMA is a total BAMF. They're just different with different points of emphasis. I personally never liked memorizing forms in TKD any more than I like memorizing the heeling pattern for Schutzhund, so the spontaneity of PSA/Mondio is already appealing to me more just how rally appeals to me more than AKC obedience. But some people really like that and are good at that (I'm not), so that can be their thing. There's also way way way less ring sport type clubs than Schutzhund clubs, so people have to train with what's available like Molly mentioned. I think most of us have jobs and other activities that limit our involvement in other stuff we'd like to try, so we train in what's available. And that's fine too.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I think you are on to something Molly. I wonder who pissed in Jeff's schutzhund cheerios? He has such a hard on for schutzhund it's actually comical. Make no mistake though, we don't respond to you because we actually give a rats ass what someone who does not train in our sport thinks, we respond because you are rude and obnoxious, Jeff.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Poor little Sch ****. LOL

Molly, your dogs couldn't do a face attack to save their lives, or an object guard, whether you train it, or someone else does. You can listen to all the little Sch suckups massage your ego, but I know what they say about you behind your back. 

Anyone with half a brain can see why Buko was jumping to one side, and obviously, you don't have that half either. You can say whatever you want about this or that, but your opinion is like your ability to see what a dog is doing and why, worthless.

Bottom line, you can talk all the talk you want, but you stay safely in your little Sch world where everything is safe and easy. You have people tell you what to do, and how to do it, with dogs that are barely enough to do so. Want to do ring ?? you are not that far from clubs, you just know deep down that your dogs are not cut out for it, and would fail. 

None of you post anything but BS. Tuck doesn't even trial, so how hard is it to criticize ?? Put yourself on the line and show some video, good or bad. Hard to take anyone seriously when they don't have the guts to show the bad with the good. At least I have no fear of that.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

so, Jeff - show some video that I should be impressed with. Jumping through pom-poms to bite a big soft pillow doesn't cut it. Three tries to jump an easy broad jump - doesn't cut it. It doesn't even have to be yourself (I know such a video of yourself doing something impressive with your dog doesn't exist, does it Jeff) - so show someone else - what in Mondio Ring tests the dog in a way to prove it is "real" or "bad ass"? So far, haven't seen it. It's just a fun-looking dog sport where the people who succeed are the ones who actually train their dogs. Just like Schutzhund. LOL

Sorry, yes my dogs could do the things you show that your dog fails at miserably - and do them very very well. Should I choose to train in that venue. But, I don't choose to. And, after watching the ho-hum Mondio videos I don't care to, either. Not interesting enough for me. 

Unless you can show some sort of proof of you actually achieving something, with any dog - other than failing miserably (and blaming your dog for it) or coming in last? Would be interested in seeing it.

Back to the drawing board, right Jeff? Better luck next time - because it must be luck, right Jeff? You are the greatest trainer - so the reason you fail is - because of your dog, that's right - I forgot. He's a butt head. Nothing to do with his training, or lack of - right?

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Your dogs could do Mondio ?? Oh SURE molly, that is your opinion, which we all know how worthless that is.

I do want to thank you, as the point that I realized that Sch was dead was when I saw beagle had a Sch 3, and was pronounced. I was waiting for them to finish the sentence with the word "dead" but there it was, the end of Sch.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Good news Jeff, your never gonna have to worry about hemorrhoids since you're such a perfect asshole. \\/


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Guess what Susan, I will never know anyone that will take you serious, as you are a suck up, and a fake. L.A. is the perfect place for you to live. Live vicariously through others, as you do not have the guts to do so for yourself. Go ahead, be ashamed.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Now that's funny, Jeff. Too bad your opinion means less than nothing, your assholiness. You're nothing but a loser bartender and a liar. No wonder you are so bitter. For all your big mouth all you've ever done in your life is put a MR2 title on that poor dog, Buko. I can't imagine the crap that dog has been through with you. Wake up Jeff, it is you, it really is, it's not the dogs fault. 

Poor Jeff, someone in schutzhund must have bitch slapped you seriously for you to be so hot and bothered by the sport. ahahahhaha!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I'm sorry, I can't really hear assholes speaking right now. 

Nice try though. Better luck next time. Maybe see a therapist about the shame you feel as a fake ass.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I'm sorry, I can't really hear assholes speaking right now.
> 
> Nice try though. Better luck next time. Maybe see a therapist about the shame you feel as a fake ass.


 
Oh now that's witty. Try for some originality loser. Maybe you can start a new message board and regale some more newbies who haven't caught on to your bullshit yet. Go tell them how you met Asko Lutter or how you trained 5 "top 5 schutzhund dogs", or about all the titled mythical rotties you bred AHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA

Oh and as far as me being a kiss ass, guess again. Or better yet, why don't you ask Dean or Mark if I am a kiss ass? You know Dean Calderon don't you? Why you even said that you personally had knowledge of dogs that Dean RUINED on a table. As usual you backed right down on that one too, because once again and as usual you were full of shit. 

And nope not a poser or a liar, that would be you.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

interesting - I'm sure Jeff is honest enough to post the names of those 5 dogs, the names of their handlers, their scores - and take credit for training them? go for it, Jeff - so I ask again - what HAVE you done that proves you to be the trainer you brag about being? Have you EVER stood even close to a podium - when there were more than 4 competitors? Where are the videos? Don't bother with the very impressive (not) "face attack via pom pom" video - already saw that one. Ho-hum.

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So how many useful posts do you have again ?? Speaking of posts that are useless, how is the shame coming along ?? Just knowing that I have forgotten more about training than you will ever know must sting like a big bitch.

So instead of uselessly chasing me about, how about you try and have at least 1 (one) post that actually means something to someone. Maybe start with a video of you doing something besides attempting (and badly) to insult me ??

I mean really, just knowing that you are useless on this forum for anything involving training (the point of this forum) must bother you. I say post a video of your dog doing something.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

And I'm sure Dean would like to know about all those dogs you claimed he ruined, you chicken shit. You see, he has no clue who you are, you can't just make these jacked up claims without backing it up Walter Middy. Yeah you're real brave behind your computer screen. You disgust me. 

Speaking of which, I'm headed out to train right now, with guess who? You are a fool if you think anyone with half a brain wouldn't want to train with people who actually know what it feels like to stand on the podium rather than sit on a computer endlessly discussing whether or not fighting drive really exists or wasting time trying to prove to others how smart you think you are.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I could just point to your inabilities. I am sure he is embarrassed to train you. However the money is just way too important. Do you follow him around like a little puppy, hanging on his every word like Sch people do ?

So without an original idea of how to train in your empty head, I often wonder how much of what I say you actually understand ? I have been thinking that some of the words that I use might just confuse the heck out of you. 

Keep a dictionary close would ya ??

Thinking of all this makes me wonder if you would even know how to post a video. Let us know if you need help, I would like to try and get that first useful post out there for you.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh yes Jeff, King of the Internet Trainers wants a video. I have nothing to prove to you, I could care less of your opinion of me or my dog or my friends or my sport. As if I would even listen to what a stupid idiot know nothing like you has to say about it????????? AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

Thanks for the laughs loser. I'm headed out to training. Have fun making up more lies about your accomplishments Walter Middy... SOMEONE is bound to be stupid enough to believe you - for a while anyway.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Why lie about going to train ?? You know you are just tired of not understanding what I am saying.

About the video thing, you could take one of your dog today at your fake training session and post it. How about just OB, after all, since I know absolutely nothing about dog training, what would be the worst that could happen ??


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

How many times do I have to tell you, I don't have a video camera, moron. Even if I did, I have no interest in showing you anything. You are not a part of schutzhund and you don't know anything about it. Your input would mean less than zero. Unlike you, the rest of us actually go out and train rather than hiding behind a computer screen hurling insults about something you know nothing about like the little bitch you are.

Don't believe I'm going out to go train? Why don't you call Dean and ask him - while you're at it, feel free to ask him his opinion of me - OH THAT'S RIGHT YOU DON"T KNOW HIM OR ANYONE ELSE IN SCHUTZHUND DO YOU????????????????

My god you are a pitiful waste of time.

When are you going to get it through your thick head that your opinions of schutzhund are meaningless? Go bother someone who gives a shit what you think.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Oh I am sorry, so it is not YOUR work that is being insulted, it is someone elses. The name dropping is cute though, that is a fake ass Sch thing as well.

If I know nothing about anything, it is odd that you get so fired up, and start name dropping almost immediately. Yet another thing you are trying so hard to convince yourself of. I think if you try hard enough you might be able too. I doubt it.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Wow, this thread turned out nicely! Way to go!](*,)


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Now I know everyone feels when me and a certain someone go at it. #-o:lol:


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> How many times do I have to tell you, I don't have a video camera, moron. Even if I did, I have no interest in showing you anything. You are not a part of schutzhund and you don't know anything about it. Your input would mean less than zero. Unlike you, the rest of us actually go out and train rather than hiding behind a computer screen hurling insults about something you know nothing about like the little bitch you are.
> 
> Don't believe I'm going out to go train? Why don't you call Dean and ask him - while you're at it, feel free to ask him his opinion of me - OH THAT'S RIGHT YOU DON"T KNOW HIM OR ANYONE ELSE IN SCHUTZHUND DO YOU????????????????
> 
> ...


 
GEEZ, you say waste of time and Jeff doesn't do shit how many times? And you continue to argue? Sounds like he may of touched a nerve.........WTH was this thread about again :roll:


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> .........WTH was this thread about again :roll:


I don't know but Michael Jackson sure appears to be enjoying that popcorn. That was way before the microwave kind so I wonder... was it popped in a pan or in that countertop plug in bubble top thing?

You guys shouldn't be picking on each other. It doesn't go settle anything to do that anyhow. It's people like me you should be picking on. At least then, there's really nothing to argue about. The wrong dog, the wrong location, no experience, unaccomplished in anything, yet some how manages to find a way to uselessly participate in this forum without being told to leave. :-k


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Molly,

I do not know you but I think teaching the object guard is harder than teaching a poodle to heel. I hope you were using hyperbole but I do not think it helps with an argument to make these type of statements.

I would be interested in seeing you teach your dog object guard, if it is so easy. You could give us all some pointers. 

Honestly, I do not think that most German Shepherds are built for Ring Sport. The dogs would fall apart. Many Schutzhund breeders have been ruining the breed by breeding the slopping back. It is a real shame what many German Shepherds breeders have done to such a noble breed.

If you look at this thread in middle where they discuss the old pictures, look at the pictures under March 20 Dogdom. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/322878.html?pagen=1

Now these German Shepherds from the 1920s would have no problems working in Ring Sports. I would love to have a German Shepherd built like some of these dogs. 

People use to breed dogs that worked and not so much for looks. My barber was telling me who is in his 70s that when growing up their dogs had to earn their keep. Their dogs had to hunt birds, retrieve, keep watch over the house and catch rabbits for dinner. He told me that their dogs earned their keep or were not kept around. 

One of the problems now with breeders is the money involved. When someone is making 1500.00 or more a dog than it is hard to put a pup down that does not have great drives or temperament. The breeder can sell the dog to someone and then they can breed and propagate the mess that is going on with the German Shepherd breed.

I hope that it is not too late for the German Shepherd breed.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Molly is your biggest antagonist Jack. She breeds the dogs that can't do the work.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm happy to make a deal with you JEffo. Stop frothing at the mouth about what a shit sport you think schutzhund is EVERY time the subject comes up - and I will happily go back to ignoring your threads. Hell look at this thread, it was about the Working Dog Championship & you couldn't manage to control yourself and had to once again inerjet a cheap shot about a sport you don't participate in, never have and never will. Just like you like to talk shit as if you know **** all about trainers and dogs you have never met but have seen maybe a video clip of. Come to think of it, here you were in Oxnard less than a mile away from the Southwest Regional Championships, but true to form, you talk a lot of shit behind your computer but couldn't manage to show your face there. Too bad, I am sure all those National level competitors really regret not getting your stellar input. 

Oh and training was great!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Since this ones in the shitter and Jeff cant stay out of any thing Schutzhund I might as well get the lock tossed on it. 
Here is what the ass biter biotch put up on another board


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

It's not really very helpful to post a link that you have to be a member to read.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> It's not really very helpful to post a link that you have to be a member to read.


Oh :-s


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Susan, was that a video that you posted ?? No ?? Still in the can't shut up, but can't put up catagory ?? As far as going to a Sch trial, I don't remember ever saying that I would go, and obviously they were not offended enough to be bothered. Unlike you, most people just don't care.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Susan, was that a video that you posted ?? No ?? Still in the can't shut up, but can't put up catagory ??


Oh that's nothing like being in the chicken shit liar category you live in.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Siiiiiiiigh! ](*,)


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Since this ones in the shitter and Jeff cant stay out of any thing Schutzhund I might as well get the lock tossed on it.
> Here is what the ass biter biotch put up on another board


Come on Bob I didn't cut and past what he did it was just the link you had to click or I guess join if your not a member to see.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Poor little Sch ****. LOL
> 
> Molly, your dogs couldn't do a face attack to save their lives, or an object guard, whether you train it, or someone else does. You can listen to all the little Sch suckups massage your ego, but I know what they say about you behind your back.
> 
> ...



why is this internet idiot continually allowed to ruin threads?

MODERATORS??!!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Poor little chicken shit liar. Still waiting to hear about those top 5 schutzhund dogs you trained and the names of those dogs you personally saw Dean ruin. Your such a disgusting liar. So funny how Big Bird didn't show up at the SouthWest Regionals when you were less than a mile away. Not surprising though, all bullies hide their asses when push comes to shove. Big mouth behind your computer screen loser. 

YOu have no clue about schutzhund. Your entire experience is what you see behind your stupid computer. No wonder you have such a hard on for videos. Unlike you the rest of us actually get out their and train. No wonder the only thing you have been able to accomplish in all these years of training is a Mondio II title. You're too busy flapping your big mouth to actually do much training.

I trial, I just don't lie about what I do like you. I don't brag about bullshit I haven't done like you. I don't lie about who I know or what I have seen like you do. As far as video who ****ing cares ass wipe? I have nothing to prove to a nobody like you, and I sure as hell don't think there's a damn thing a big mouth nobody like you can teach me about schutzhund.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> But are your really competing against other teams. Everyone starts out with 300, the other teams don't take them away. Maybe I see this wrong.


When I trial, I am trying to beat everyone else.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I still haven't seen any videos showing why I should be impressed with Mondio as a test of the dog's "bad ass-ness" - where is the pressure? Why are three tries allowed to jump an easy obstacle? The videos I have seen - especially the one of Jeff's dog jumping through pom-poms, show dogs playing a game, no power, no real-ness, just jumping through pom-poms biting a pillow, no pressure - no threat - no reason any decent (or maybe not decent) "schutzhund dog" should not be able to do it (everything I have seen done by the "real Mondio dogs". So far, I'm not impressed with anything except to watch another dog sport that looks like fun training to me. Where are the videos I can look at to change my mind about Mondio?

molly


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

This discussion was not started as a "schutzhund" discussion. If you don't like the way it's evolving, then don't participate. If you want to discuss only schutzhund, there is section specifically for that discussion.

DFrost


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Well moderator or not that is pretty chicken shit thinking. This was a thread about a Schutzhund Championship and it went to hell two posts in when Oehlsen made his wise ass remark. All that had to be done was leave it alone but because it wasn't in the Schutzhund only thread it's free for all? Bullshit.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Hey Molly I am still trying to figure out who it was that pissed in Jeff's schutzhund cheerios oh so many years ago? They bitch slapped him so bad he STILL isn't over it! lol, lol As far as Mondio goes, obviously Jeff chooses this sport so that he can tell people his is one of the top 5 dogs in the Nation, (he's got a thing with being in the top 5) conveniently leaving off the part that in the Nationals this year there were only 4 dogs!!!!!!!!


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## Dave Kroyer (Feb 26, 2010)

Sch is trhe only sport that has "courage or fight drive points" Its judged. Its called the TSB.. A weak dog can get a high score in Mondio with good training. The same dog in Sch may do the routine correct....but a verhunden in the bitework Verhunden in unsatisfactory but the dog still did everything. But there wads a lack of courage. I am not going to argture about this with anyone UNLESS they have titled a dog in Sch, and Mondio and FR. All three sports have different pressures. But only in sch is courage judged. Please dont evryone argue this and respond unless you can talk the talk and walk the walk. That does not mean you have done a mondio ring title at a local club trial.


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## Dave Kroyer (Feb 26, 2010)

Sorry about the typos....my keys are sticking!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've titled a dog to IPO 3 and whether I'm allowed to talk or not on here, that is something that I decide.

The TSB would be a good thing if it were not for judges giving dogs "pronounced" when they should be giving "vorhanden" which, although I do not know the English name of, is also good. However, "pronounced" should be awarded to a dog that puts up an extraordinarily good performance and there is far too little selection made between these two levels.

Over the years I have worked in the scoring office and can nearly give the grades myself depending on the points the dog receives. Obviously, not "passing" results in "unsatisfactory" or whatever they call it in English and unfortunately, a lot of dogs with good protection work are awarded "pronounced" which for me is wrong. There are not so many dogs that should received it. There was talk that they were going to give this up and maybe it's about time.

A lot of handlers have trouble with accepting that their dogs are good but not extraordinarily good. When I did IPO, I can't remember if it was in force but I would have given my dog "good" and not "pronounced" even though his points reached 94 and 96 on occasion.

Rant over....


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## Dave Kroyer (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey bro...i do agree with that. Most judges cant read the dogs correctly......nature of the beast. Cant argue that!!!!!!! I will say this......top level sch tracking....seperates the men from the mice!!!! Now thats fricken pressure on a dog!!!!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I guess it would be more appropriate if you called me "sis" :lol:

As for SchH / IPO tracking, you have to be joking. The dog I wrote about was mucked up by me in tracking (first real working dog) and I "pushed" it round the track sometimes because I knew more or less how it would run. You only need to see a track on the left to know that "your" track will run at first to the right. One judge said "Gill, you can't do that?" so I said "well, knock off the points as you see fit - all I have to do is pass!". Due to good ob and bitework I got an SG (Very Good) but don't tell me SchH / IPO tracking is difficult, apart from maybe extreme conditions. 

I now practise what I've learnt and have 2 good trackers but our national schutzhund tracking is more difficult even than SchH and IPO.


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## Dave Kroyer (Feb 26, 2010)

not talking about club level dirt tracking or tracks you can see...talking shit terrain...bad conditions...and shitty tracklayers. Need a well trained dog that can handle pressure. I please understand I am not talking about "passing" talking about getting a v.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Quote Dave Kroyer:

I please understand I am not talking about "passing" talking about getting a v.

Unquote

I was only talking about "passing" for the tracking. It may have escaped your notice but the whole trial brought my dog to an SG which is 270 points and over. As I admitted I "mucked up" the tracking with him.

Maybe read more carefully?


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## Dave Kroyer (Feb 26, 2010)

Sorry Gillian. I must have missed that part. I better stop posting. I may not have the experience of most the people on this board...i am just a novice. later!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

No harm done :smile:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Keith Jenkins said:


> Well moderator or not that is pretty chicken shit thinking. This was a thread about a Schutzhund Championship and it went to hell two posts in when Oehlsen made his wise ass remark. All that had to be done was leave it alone but because it wasn't in the Schutzhund only thread it's free for all? Bullshit.


My apologies, the thread was about Schutzhund. I've stated my ignorance of the sport world on more than one occasion. To me, the title was misleading. Again I would say; there is a section of this forum for schutzhund. Perhaps it's best taken there. 

DFrost


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

David Frost said:


> My apologies, the thread was about Schutzhund. I've stated my ignorance of the sport world on more than one occasion. To me, the title was misleading. Again I would say; there is a section of this forum for schutzhund. Perhaps it's best taken there.
> 
> DFrost


Well kick me  Next time I post a 'event' I'll put it in the appropriate section, if one is available. This one sure went to hell in handbasket didn't it?!


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## Dave Kroyer (Feb 26, 2010)

You guys are right. Back to the topic at hand. This will be an excellent even with some of the nations top handlers/trainers...and yes dogs!! 2 of my club members are entered. Good luck to Mark Natinsky with "Eddie and Fiya" the "wrecking crew" and David Green with Ultra!!!!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Dave Kroyer said:


> Hey sis...i do agree with that. Most judges cant read the dogs correctly......nature of the beast. Cant argue that!!!!!!! I will say this......top level sch tracking....seperates the men from the mice!!!! Now thats fricken pressure on a dog!!!!


HELL YES!!!!!!!!! a SCHUTZUND TRAINER PRESENT!!!!!!!:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Dave Kroyer said:


> Sorry Gillian. I must have missed that part. I better stop posting. I may not have the experience of most the people on this board...i am just a novice. later!


Ya your a rookie, like I'm a season pro!

*Dave Kroyer*, Head Trainer and Owner of Canine Headquarters, 
has over 15 years of experience handling, training and coaching 
in the arenas of Schutzhund, Ring Sport, Police K9, AKC Obedience, 
Agility, SAR, and AKC Tracking. His five appearances as a 
World Championship competitor and multiple National and 
Regional podium placements in different dog sports afford him the 
opportunity to help and coach many top competitors in the U.S. and abroad. 
Dave brings his knowledge of multiple disciplines and dog sports 
to the table to offer the most informative training and coaching 
available. Please take some time to explore and 
enjoy


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

LMFAO The moderators continually lock my threads and delete my posts for no good reason. They also threatened to ban me on the basis that too many members had sent them private messages complaining about me, yet they continue to let Jeff use this forum as his own personal playground even as members complain. 

Meanwhile I continue to receive high fives at every trial I go to for my contribution to the forum!


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Molly, we're learning the object guard now and it's going a little slower than i originally hoped for, can you do a quick video of how you would do it? Leaving the dog to work on it's own is proving difficult, how would you train it? My dog keeps biting outside the 2 meter circle, what's the fix? 

It starts in this video at 3:13 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ghrk_championnat-ring-franche-comte-ulko and i'd love for my dog to be this cool. Let's see some video!!!!!!!! Looking forward to it.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Al,

I would not hold your breath waiting for Molly to answer you. I asked her the same question myself and never got a response. 

Molly told us it is easy to teach a dog the object guard, as easy as someone teaching a dog to heel. Not to mention that Mondio Ring does not put pressure on the dogs. We could ask Tim Bartlett how he ran the dog off in Europe with no pressure. 

I guess when you are selling dogs then you don't have time for explanations.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

Oh get over yourselves. Jack, you asked me a question about mondio or object guard before? Really? 

Obviously I don't train mondio ring, or ring sport, and I have no desire to. I am, however, a person who has succeeded in the sport I choose to participate in - Schutzhund. I have trained many dogs, and have done very well with all of them. I also have trained many dogs in other venues. I am certain should I have the desire or reason to train an object guard, I could do so, even with my shitty schutzhund dogs, or one of the very trainable poodles I have worked with LOLOLOLOL - it doesn't look that complicated. I'm sure, Al, that you can figure it out all by yourself or with the help of a trainer who has suceeded in the sport of your choice. My advice to you is, don't ask someone who has failed at every sport he has attempted, or those who blame their dog for their failures in training, to tell you how it's done. Don't learn from the losers.

and nope, I haven't seen any sign of real pressure in mondio ring. I've asked before - do you have video that can show me that mondio dogs are working under real pressure from the decoy? Would love to see it, really.

molly


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

David Feliciano said:


> LMFAO The moderators continually lock my threads and delete my posts for no good reason. They also threatened to ban me on the basis that too many members had sent them private messages complaining about me, yet they continue to let Jeff use this forum as his own personal playground even as members complain.
> 
> Meanwhile I continue to receive high fives at every trial I go to for my contribution to the forum!


 
Hi David!!! Yesterday was a good day, no?! LB did a good job. Great seeing Christopher and Candy too.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jack Roberts said:


> Al,
> 
> I would not hold your breath waiting for Molly to answer you. I asked her the same question myself and never got a response.
> 
> ...



Jack,

I believe Molly is thinking of the Schutzhund "object guard" that is part of the WH title, NOT a Ring Sport OG


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Molly,

What have I said about your dogs? If they are shitty, you should not be breeding them. You should give them a dirt nap. 

I do not think the object guard in Ring Sport is easy. Anything that appears easy is usually not that easy. Tiger Woods swings a golf club and makes it look easy. It does not make it easy for me or you. I could go on with analogies but I think you get the point.

I think you are naive to not think there is pressure in Mondio Ring or other ring sports. I have seen some Schutzhund trials where there was little pressure on the dogs. If you do not think there is pressure in Mondio Ring then you do not understand dogs. If you are confident in your dogs, then why don't you bring them out to a ring club and see how well they can do the work? You laugh about streamer or hoops but you will never know about your own dog until you test them. 

Each sport has its positives and negatives. Ring sport really tests the endurance and athleticism of a dog. I have never put down Schutzhund and I learned how to train dogs from someone in Schutzhund. I have nothing against Schutzhund. 

I do think that Schutzhund has become more corrupt due to the money involved in breeding. The German Shepherd breed is no longer the choice for military and police work. The GS breed has become unhealthy and temperament wise is going down the tubes. I think the downfall of the GS breed begin with the idea that Schutzhund is the ultimate test for breeding. 

The German Shepherd should have the athleticism and endurance of the Malinois. If you look at old videos and pictures of German Shepherd, you will see a dog that looks like a Malinois. You should be breeding dogs of athleticism and drives that can do Ring Sport and still have a rock solid temperament. 

Max von Stephanitz would put a bullet in most of the German Shepherds bred today. Until you and other breeders decide to stop propagating the myth that Schutzhund is the ultimate test of a working dog then the German Shepherd will continue into the ranks of a use to be great dog.

I think one of the reasons that you see more Malinois as working dogs now is because of the way they are tested. Apparently, ring sports must be a good breeding criteria since it is so much easier to find a good working Malinois than a German Shepherd.

Molly, why don't you start breeding some German Shepherds that can compete in Ring Sports? We know that the Malinois competes in both Schutzhund and Ring Sport and does well in both of them.

I would purchase a German Shepherd that could do Ring Sport well and had the health and athleticism. I like the German Shepherd breed but see a dog that has changed radically from the dogs in the 1960s to now. I think by the 1960s that a change had already occurred in the breed. 

I am sure there are some German Shepherd breeders on this forum who knows more details about the breed and when the change occurred. I do know the the 1920s German Shepherd is far different than how German Shepherds look now.


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## Betty Mathena (Apr 19, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> and nope, I haven't seen any sign of real pressure in mondio ring. I've asked before - do you have video that can show me that mondio dogs are working under real pressure from the decoy? Would love to see it, really.
> 
> molly


Where do you see more pressure in a Schutzhund trial then Mondio Molly?


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Hi David!!! Yesterday was a good day, no?! LB did a good job. Great seeing Christopher and Candy too.


Twas a very good day Sue  Most impressive was a Judge not handing out "pronounced" titles like candy 

It was nice to seeing you working Arcane in obedience too. Looks great! Keep up the good work Sue!


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Everytime this sport or that is better I think to this old ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwBFknwvzek&feature=related


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Apparently Molly knows something about Ring Training because she says that her dog are training in ring sport. 

For someone who does not do ring sports, why would you put this under your litter page? 

http://www.workinggermanshepherd.com/litters.htm

You may want to take this off your web-page, it makes you look dishonest. I am sure that you would not want to be dishonest with your buyers.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Candy Eggert said:


> Twas a very good day Sue  Most impressive was a Judge not handing out "pronounced" titles like candy
> 
> It was nice to seeing you working Arcane in obedience too. Looks great! Keep up the good work Sue!


Thanks Candy, he's a fun dog. I was also glad Nathaniel only rated the dogs pronounced that deserved it. Let's hope this is the start of a trend with USA judges.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm obviously not Molly Graf but I would like to say that there are a number of breeders,some of whom breed under the RSV 2000 (Helmut Raiser) and I'm actually fed up of hearing "over the ditch" criticism as to how the GSD is today. 

Granted, the working lines are still a small percentage of the whole GSD colony but nevertheless, they are there with their straight backs, good hip and elbow results - good drive, etc.

We have the internet so why don't you search "Leistungshunde"- There are many breeders to be found. We call them "Die Grauen" "The "greys" although black and black and tan are included.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Thanks Candy, he's a fun dog. I was also glad Nathaniel only rated the dogs pronounced that deserved it. Let's hope this is the start of a trend with USA judges.


Exactly Sue :wink:

Yes, we hold our collective breath waiting the day ALL Judging trends to a higher standard 

You and both looked very good together, working that "team theme" which I love so much!


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

Read what Dave Kroyer already wrote, Betty. Or did you miss that? For one thing, there is threat. For another, there is presence from the helper. Third thing, there is a stick, and stick hits. I'm sure Dave's post in this thread can enlighten you even more than I can.

molly


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## Betty Mathena (Apr 19, 2006)

No reason to be snarky Molly. I had already read his post and for some reason or another was interested in your opinion since you made the statement and had such a strong opinion.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

My opinion is the same as his.

molly


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Keith Jenkins said:


> Everytime this sport or that is better I think to this old ad:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwBFknwvzek&feature=related


 
Me too Keith - EVERY time!!!!! Thanks for finding that oldie but a goodie!!!!


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## Betty Mathena (Apr 19, 2006)

Molly Graf said:


> My opinion is the same as his.
> 
> molly


My mistake.

With your level of experience and success in schtuzhund I thought you may have something to add.


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## Betty Mathena (Apr 19, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Me too Keith - EVERY time!!!!! Thanks for finding that oldie but a goodie!!!!


Sadly enough, I'm old enough to be pretty sure I remember that commercial! :grin::


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I have the "stoopid" idea that working dogs are working dogs - forgive me if this is wrong. Every dog that enters into a sport, is a working dog and we could all stick together. The idea of "non-biiting"not being real dogs is ludicrous. The idea of biting dogs being divided into "suit" dogs or "sleeve" dogs is also ludicrous.

LETS STICK TOGETHER


Please???????????????????????????????????????


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Molly,

How many of your dogs did you buy with Schutzhund titles?

Did you train 40 dogs to Schutzhund titles from a puppy or were most of your dogs bought being titled already?

I am curious since it is under your signature. If you titled 40 dogs from pups, then that is an impressive record.

I would like an answer to why you claim to train your dogs in ring sport, if on this forum you say that you do not train ring sport?

http://www.workinggermanshepherd.com/litters.htm

From your last post, I still see that you can not understand about pressure. A person can pressure a dog without hitting it. In fact whipping a dog is the way that some people get a dog to bite. 

I wish that I could find Tim Bartlett video in Europe but you can see him pressuring a dog with just his presence. Perhaps someone has a link to the video and you can see it. 

I am more impressed with a decoy who can pressure a dog with their body language and eyes than someone shaking a padded stick.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

That's interesting Jack.

I wont't pretend to be a profi but I trained with a German decoy who could read the dogs and very rarely used his "bare hands" to correct a dog. Mostly his body stance and gaze fixed it. 

Let's face it - there are not so many dogs around nowadays that can't be "tamed". Mostly, they are a product of being allowed to "do what they want" and seem to be "fierce".


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Gillian,

It is an art to be a really good decoy. I am no professional myself but have known and seen some really good trainers. That were not overly harsh and really communicated with the dogs on the dogs level. It sounds sappy or cooky but it is true. 

What makes a great trainer is the ability to read a dog and and manipulate those behaviors that you desire. You need timing but overall the ability to read a dog is the first and foremost key in my opinion.

I do not agree with people whipping a dog to bite and really think it is not a fair thing to do to a dog. Either the dog has it or does not.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

Actually, Jack, I do have knowledge of what pressure is and isn't. I'm still waiting to see a video of mondio that demonstrates real pressure on the dog. Haven't seen it yet.

I have not claimed (anywhere) to have titled 40 dogs myself to titles. Nor does my statement say "schutzhund titles". Dogs of my breeding have been titled, by their owner/handlers though - to many different titles (now more like 60, or more) schutzhund included.

Myself, to give a short synopsis - I have trained and titled 5 dogs from 0 to Schh3 National level, one to World Team. Four of those dogs were raised from puppies. Three of those dogs were bred by myself. The total trials and titles from those dogs would probably end up over 100, if I bothered to count. None of those dogs were ever sent to a trainer for any part of their training - which means they are "truly HOT" unlike many who claim HOT on the dogs they get as young adults with some pre-training. 

Those 5 dogs and their many titles helped me earn the bronze, silver, gold and master's gold sports medal for Schutzhund USA. 

I have since raised/trained and will be titling several more dogs from my own program.

I recently got the very first dog who was already titled, that I will be competing with. It's a new experience for me, but I'm enjoying it, along with the several young dogs from my breeding program that I will be titling myself.

molly


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jack Roberts said:


> Molly,
> 
> How many of your dogs did you buy with Schutzhund titles?
> 
> ...


Hi Jack,
The way I read it, she is not claiming to have trained 40 dogs to schutzhund titles. I take the statement to mean over 40 dogs from her kennel have obtained titles, including those she has trained and dogs from her breeding program sold to and trained by others I also think the statement on her website regarding ring sport means dogs from her breeding have been trained or are in training for ring sport, not saying she trains in ring sport. I don't think there is anything misleading about it.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm of this opinion, too, Jack


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

Molly Graf said:


> I'm still waiting to see a video of mondio that demonstrates real pressure on the dog. Haven't seen it yet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoNLrZVk6j8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAN6p9qPps&feature=related


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMR2MwU5O6s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf7UYJcv-9s&feature=related


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Nicely done, Tim! =D>=D>=D>=D>

(well, darn, my clapping hands smiley doesn't work)


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## Tim Bartlett (May 21, 2007)

Can we all just agree that all sports have some type of pressure in them? Maybe more in some than others, but who cares??? I do, however, get so tired of hearing about how weak MondioRing is because you can't hit the dogs with a stick. As you can see in the videos I posted, there are other ways to show weakness in a dog other than hitting it with a stick. And that was a world championship, not a club trial.....

Sorry for the thread hijack but I had to get that off my chest. I feel much better now..........back to your normally scheduled program.....


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Tim Bartlett said:


> Can we all just agree that all sports have some type of pressure in them? Maybe more in some than others, but who cares??? I do, however, get so tired of hearing about how weak MondioRing is because you can't hit the dogs with a stick. As you can see in the videos I posted, there are other ways to show weakness in a dog other than hitting it with a stick. And that was a world championship, not a club trial.....
> 
> Sorry for the thread hijack but I had to get that off my chest. I feel much better now..........back to your normally scheduled program.....


Absoloutly!!!!! I think your 3rd sentence could be a standard fill in the blanks about any of the grip sports:

*"I GET SO TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT HOW WEAK/STUPID/LESS THAN _______________SPORT IS COMPARED TO _______________ SPORT, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T __________________ OR IT DOESN'T HAVE _______________________"* 

People need to get over themselves, no one is holding a gun to anyone else's head and forcing them to compete in schutzhund or whatever.


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Well put Tim..Excellent work...


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

One more thing, Pressure is different from dog to dog and training plays a part as well..I have see strong suit dogs fall apart on a sleeve and strong sleeve dogs fall apart on a suit..

I also believe we train in what we enjoy, and should support those who train in other sports..isn't there enough politics and egos in the dog world to be this way..

If we keep fighting each other it will open doors for the people who want to stop are beloved sports to step in..


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

Very true, Clark. And thanks Tim for the videos. Good job!

molly


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I also believe we train in what we enjoy, and should support those who train in other sports..isn't there enough politics and egos in the dog world to be this way..

I feel that anytime anyone makes fun of molly, they are doing their part in defeating ego and politics. Look how quickly when pressured she rolled over and just started saying "my opinion is the same as his" when pressured by Jack.

Quote: 
If we keep fighting each other it will open doors for the people who want to stop are beloved sports to step in.

I don't see this, as who the heck knows what we are even doing ?? I have yet to meet anyone in San Antonio that knows what Mondio is. The sport has been here since 2000 ?? I meet a lot of people. : )


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Jeff there are attempts do stop biting sports in Europe now..How long will it take to start here..OH it has HSUS has an open lobby against bite sports as does peta..


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

LOL Jeff - at least someone showed a decent dog/handler/decoy team on video, so my view of mondio wasn't all about losers like you and your dog - LOLOLOL


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Have to agree with Clark. We can barely stop BSL. You don't think the HSUS and Peta read this board. The Green party is 10x worse than PETA and HSUS...Its only matter of time that they switch their cause and go after dog sports.. The US has about 308 million people and all the biting sports put together PP. Sch, PSA, FR, MR ect... members for the sake of argument may have a total of what 20,000 members... We are in the minority.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Molly, I could spend years video taping the many many doorknobs your dog eagle produced. With that many high threshold shitters under your belt, I am amazed at how you are able to walk.

I agree that the dogsport people are lacking in numbers, but how many people really take those organizations seriously ?? If it is such a serious threat, then maybe we should start doing something about it now.

However, how would we go about that ?? I think that for every 4 people that do the sports safely and correctly, there is at least 1 person that has a video that would destroy all credibility. Even our ooops videos do us no justice.

If they really wanted to, a couple of hours on youtube would garner enough evidence to hurt us all pretty badly. Even Joby's ooops video would look really bad to a pet person.

So, to me, all the evidence is there. I don't know what they are waiting for.


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

There not waiting they are allready lobbing Jeff..

And one quick question, what gives you the right to attack people..


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

In what sense ?? If for example, I say that I thought that "bob" let the dog in to bite in the face attack, and the video shows that he did in fact open up and let the dog in, according to most people, I am attacking. My opinion differs about a dog, I think he is junk, that is my opinion, is it still attacking ??

I don't see things the way that other do, and personally, I want the bar to be a lot higher than it is. I think a title should mean something at the higher levels. All I ever hear in person is that someone else in a different country does it. This is bullshit to me. 

Anyone that has ever met me in person understands what I am saying, but here, it is attack attack attack.

Post a bit more. I have seen many many threads where people could have used your help, but you say nothing. I am not sure what is worse, my occasional spats with Tuck, or your indifference.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Candy Eggert said:


> You and both looked very good together, working that "team theme" which I love so much!


Thanks again and I agree Candy, definitely takes a village/team!

Jeff:


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

I do not believe that any trainer can give advice on a computer video..I work dogs hands on and only hands on..So here would be my advice seek help with a trainer face to face..


And where is the issues with hsus and peta,,Lets talk bsl and some places adding herders..That is a huge start..

I see things alot different then most also!!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I also believe we train in what we enjoy, and should support those who train in other sports..isn't there enough politics and egos in the dog world to be this way..
> 
> I feel that anytime anyone makes fun of molly, they are doing their part in defeating ego and politics. Look how quickly when pressured she rolled over and just started saying "my opinion is the same as his" when pressured by Jack.
> 
> ...


I am dumb founded that your fellow crew or somebody hasn't taken you to the side and said shut the **** up. Your relentless bitching and divisive bullshit makes you and your cause/agenda what ever the **** that is look like your nutzzz. 
I'm not interested in Mondio and have NEVER ONCE!! had a bad word about in regards to the sport or any one who chooses to enjoy doing it other than YOU!!
Schutzhund for now has the bigger name recognition world wide when the Greene's come after us they ain't going to care what any of this is called there going to go after bite sports. Your relentless efforts at driving a wedge and dividing any thing not ring is not going to help your sport when and if the shit hits the fan. .
Around here we support each others sports and are friends, there are I thing 4 Schutzhund clubs maybe 3 ring clubs and a couple of training groups with in 50 mikes of the twin cities. 
There ain't no hating like the shit you keep spewing. 
I really would like to know what the fuk is the matter with you any way I mean REALLY WHAT THE FUK is the matter with you. You jump in these threads and go crazy.
Molly schutzhund molly schutzhund molly schutzhund Video video video video video WTF


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> In what sense ?? If for example, I say that I thought that "bob" let the dog in to bite in the face attack, and the video shows that he did in fact open up and let the dog in, according to most people, I am attacking. My opinion differs about a dog, I think he is junk, that is my opinion, is it still attacking ??



To quote you at the nationals "I express my opinion and I make fun of people"

When you pair expressing your opinion along with making fun of somebody it becomes an attack.

Not to mention the part where you said that if people don't want to talk about something that you will force them to. Now lets all force Jeff to discuss something he hasn't wanted to discuss. Jeff what dogs have you titled in schutzhund? Who were the 5 competitors that you helped out?

I suggest nobody post anything else on this thread other than those two questions!


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Jeff what dogs have you titled in schutzhund?

Who were the 5 competitors that you helped out?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

David Feliciano said:


> I suggest nobody post anything else on this thread other than those two questions!


Pffft like you think these questions have never asked or been ignored ware did you drop in from:-\"
carry on


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

There were only 5 ?? I think that number might be a bit small.

To quote you at nationals "I am a troll". 

Amazing the difference in your personality when I am right in front of you, and now. You had all the opportunity in the world to ask those questions, yet they didn't seem to come to mind. Too bad it either didn't occur to you, or you were just to gutless to ask.

Funny thing is, I probably would have told you, no problem.


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Ok i wasn't trying to open doors for an attack on Jeff.

My hole point is we all should support each other and there choice of sport..

No matter the difference in sports we all share a common ground working and training our dogs..We should keep that pure..

Maybe i have a different out look, I try to look at evrybody as an ambassadar to the dog world..Now there are idiots but let them be..Now we all should look after the removal of abusive people, or people who draw a negative view in the working dog world..


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I didn't see that as an attack, just an annoyance.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Jeff what dogs have you titled in schutzhund?

Who were the 5 competitors that you helped out?

BTW Jeff you are misquoting me. I said "I too enjoy a little internet trolling from time to time". That's a far cry from "I am a troll". I was complementing you on your mad trolling skills. I was in such awe by your aura that no questions came to mind. I just wanted to bask in your aura and absorb your majestic majesty.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I do not believe that any trainer can give advice on a computer video

Doesn't Ivan have a business doing this very thing ??


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff this statement of yours wins the prize for sell serving bullshit:

"I don't see things the way that other do, and personally, I want the bar to be a lot higher than it is. I think a title should mean something at the higher levels. All I ever hear in person is that someone else in a different country does it. This is bullshit to me."

This is so far from what you do. I think I'd make a nice chunk of change on a bet that you have NEVER even seen one of Molly's dogs in person, and sure as hell never worked one. You make derogatory statements about other dogs, people and training methods you have never seen or experienced first hand. It's all based on video clips and your own mind. As long as schutzhund is involved you use your tired old knee jerk reactions to shit all over it. Get over yourself, you don't compete in schutzhund, your sport is mondio, so worry about yourself and your own sport. Somehow the rest of us will manage without your "input".


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

David Feliciano said:


> Jeff what dogs have you titled in schutzhund?
> 
> Who were the 5 competitors that you helped out?


If it was more than five dogs, then it should be easy to name just five.

What dogs of your own did you title in schutzhund?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: This is so far from what you do. I think I'd make a nice chunk of change on a bet that you have NEVER even seen one of Molly's dogs in person, and sure as hell never worked one. 

How much is the bet for ??


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

David Feliciano said:


> Jeff what dogs have you titled in schutzhund?
> 
> Who were the 5 competitors that you helped out?


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