# Preventative Gastroplexy



## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

Well after two club members have had their dog's bloat in the last few months, I was finally hit with the experience myself. Last Saturday my 9 year old female Rottweiler bloated and passed away soon after surgery. In all the years I've been in dogs, I had never heard of case at such an advanced age but it turns out it is twice as likely to happen after the age of 7. My heart is totally broken over the experience and now I want to do gastroplexy on my remaining dogs that would be at-risk. 

Has anyone done the gastroplexy as a preventative measure for bloat? Experiences with the surgery? The dogs I'm considering are not breeding dogs, just pets.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Dana McMahan said:


> Well after two club members have had their dog's bloat in the last few months, I was finally hit with the experience myself. Last Saturday my 9 year old female Rottweiler bloated and passed away soon after surgery. In all the years I've been in dogs, I had never heard of case at such an advanced age but it turns out it is twice as likely to happen after the age of 7. My heart is totally broken over the experience and now I want to do gastroplexy on my remaining dogs that would be at-risk.
> 
> Has anyone done the gastroplexy as a preventative measure for bloat? Experiences with the surgery? The dogs I'm considering are not breeding dogs, just pets.


I'm so sorry, Dana.

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/bloat-22315/ -- you will see gastropexy (BTW, no "L") discussed on pages one and three.

There are several other threads, too; this was the first one that came up.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Also

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/stapling-stomach-23601/#post331791

http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f25/bloat-my-4mo-gsd-advice-help-needed-15570/

http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f25/laparoscopic-spay-gastropexy-opinions-13764/


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

I've researched a lot of the threads and studies on the internet. It seems most people are doing it with dogs after that particular dog has bloated or in conjunction with another surgery (such as neuter/spay). I'm curious about the risks of taking a healthy dog and putting them under the risk of anesthesia just for the purpose of a gastropexy, not in conjunction with a spay/neuter. 

The dog in particular I'm thinking about is a dog I kept out of the sole breeding of my female. He is 3 1/2, has some of her same lower body weight issues she always had (risk factor for bloat) and has super crazy high energy. Although the line itself has no history of bloat that I can find, I'm still terrified at this point. Just trying to weigh the risk of doing the surgery on him now or not.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

The way I look at it putting a dog under brings about a risk, even if small. There is no denying though that bloat often kills, and if it doesn't kill them, there is a chance that even if you elect to attempt to save them that they may not make it or could bloat again later.

For me the decision to not operate on either dog that bloated was in the dogs best interest given how often I take my dogs to remote locations. If either dog had bloated again at my cabin for example, I'd be too far from help and would have to put them down myself. As much as I didn't want to do it, both dogs were euthanized. 

Around that time I started doing elective pexies on my dogs. It's a safeguard that buys you some time. That said the decision to do so and when is really a highly personal/individual decision to make. If the dog in question were mine though, I'd have it done. Typically I have some x rays done at the same time.

BTW I am sorry you lost your dog. Every time I hear about a dog passing to bloat, I think - bloat sucks.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Dana, again, I'm so sorry for your loss of Cindy. I was thinking about you guys all weekend and I was very sad there wasn't a better outcome for your Rottie girl. 

I can tell you that the surgery itself if you are doing it as a solo procedure is not a super challenging one and there is minimal blood loss (probably as much or less than a non-estrus spay), so it's one that even I as a not so gung ho surgeon feel pretty good about doing. 

With any surgical procedure, the best thing is to ask questions, such as: 

-what pre-anesthesia blood work and physical exam information do you look for to see if my dog is a good candidate for surgery?
-how will my dog dog is anesthetized?
-do you use electronic and/or a tech for monitoring before, during, and after surgery?
-do you use IV fluids to support their blood pressure and kidneys and a warmer to support their body temperature during and after?
-what do you use for pain control during and after the procedure?

A good facility will welcome your questions and give you a tour of the surgical and recovery area if you ask.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Sorry to hear this Dana...been a tough week or so for a lot of us...


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

So sorry for your loss Dana. Bloat/torsion is such an awful issue. I actually had this conversation with my vet on Friday. I has come to my attention that my dog's father twisted last year, and even though genetics are not clear, I am considering it as well.

My previous GSD twisted at 1 1/2 yrs. He survived the surgery, but only because I was there to react as it was happening.

Basically what Maren said.....my vet told me roughly the same. He said that if I choose, it is not a really invasive surgery, but if he ever has surgery again near his abdominal wall or close the the area I would have to make that vet aware so they do not cut the stomach by accident. He said a healthy dog should do fine, but at the same time he thought my paranoia would probably keep that from happening to me again. I personally am weighing the pro's and cons, but I sort of am thinking the risk of anesthesia is less scary than the risk of bloat with torsion.

My vet also mentioned that dogs on the thin side are more prone for this as well as older dogs. I know we typically think thinner is better than thicker, but who knows?! I have had all his patients that do not fit into textbook symptoms/causes.

I think it would be a good idea for you to start "interviewing" unless your vet has done plenty of these and is comfortable. The only reason I say that is because when my dog twisted...the ER vet did not operate ($1500 later), and sent me home with my dog and said to find someone right away. I had 4 vets turn me down for the surgery either because they had never done one, were uncomfortable doing one, or the few they did were not survivors. Regardless of the reasons...that scared me.

Again, I am so sorry about your rottie.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Still thinking of you Dana. You know I'm just a phone call (and about 15 minutes drive) away!


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

I had gastroplexy done while my guy was under for a splenic torsion. Happy I did it and he lived to 13.5.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I am thinking about doing it with my miniature poodle. I'm getting attached to the little guy and would hate to deal with bloat!

He has neuter and umbilical hernia repair coming up pretty soon, which would be the time to do it.

Are there any downsides to it?


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

I made an appointment to get at least one dog done this week. He is out of my female that passed away and has similar body style and activity level. My vet quoted me around $300 to do it as a preventative. Well let you guys know how it goes.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Following (Maren's list) is what I came up with as the biggest concerns too. I have two brachycephalic dogs, so I had marked G.A. concerns, but actually I would learn about all the following list for my "regular" dogs too.

Here's a good overview:
http://www.aspenmeadowvet.com/education/anesthesia.html

I was surprised, given what I had learned, to discover that such important things as the IV catheter and the dedicated anesthesia tech (staff whose only job in the O.R. is that) who is non-distracted while monitoring BP and body temp, etc., were actually "extras" in some practices. 

So those "extras" need to be nailed down, IMO, and not assumed to be standard procedure. I would also want to discuss post-G.A. hypothermia, whether there is staff overnight, and whether the dog might be better monitored at home.

G.A. has come a long way from the days when the biggest fear of the owner was losing the dog to G.A. post-surgery .... when the dog "just didn't wake up" from the anesthesia. 

Knowing all this stuff in advance can make scheduled surgery *far* less nerve-wracking, IMHO.

All JMO!



Maren Bell Jones said:


> With any surgical procedure, the best thing is to ask questions, such as:
> 
> -what pre-anesthesia blood work and physical exam information do you look for to see if my dog is a good candidate for surgery?
> -how will my dog dog is anesthetized?
> ...


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## Wendy Schmitt (Apr 29, 2009)

I recently had a puppy buyer call and ask about this. the puppy was 11 months and they were doing a spay. The vet wanted to do this surgery I recomended against it. My reason being at such a young a age I worry about scar tissue or any issues this might cause on a working dog and while it still may be growing. I felt if the dog were 5 or 6 yrs I would, but not on a dog under 1 yr. 
We spoke about the risks and yes the fact that the dog could bloat but I'm just not one for elective surgery on an 11month old for something that could happen at 8 or 9 yrs. What risks might happen from the surgery and tacking the stomach on a very young active healthy dog. 
We might have made a mistake but we wont know for many years.

Wendy Schmitt


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Such a young age? An 11 month old dog is very nearly full size. This dog would have been about the perfect surgical candidate with the added bonus of being in there for the spay (also an elective surgery) at the same time. I would be totally comfortable performing it at this age. Doing some research, seems the board certified surgeons are comfortable doing at 6 months. But of course you as the breeder know better, so... :-\"


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Wendy Schmitt said:


> I recently had a puppy buyer call and ask about this. the puppy was 11 months and they were doing a spay. The vet wanted to do this surgery I recomended against it. My reason being at such a young a age I worry about scar tissue or any issues this might cause on a working dog and while it still may be growing. I felt if the dog were 5 or 6 yrs I would, but not on a dog under 1 yr.
> We spoke about the risks and yes the fact that the dog could bloat but I'm just not one for elective surgery on an 11month old for something that could happen at 8 or 9 yrs. What risks might happen from the surgery and tacking the stomach on a very young active healthy dog.
> We might have made a mistake but we wont know for many years.
> 
> Wendy Schmitt



What did the person decide?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i asked the last time this subj came up but didn't get much response...
for the MWD handlers out there ...

isn't this a VERY common procedure done on most gsd's ??
(it was almost standard practice on two bases i was on, but that was a few years back) 
...curious what the current policies are

here in japan where i am it is a few grand (in USD equivalent, IF you can find a vet who will do it).
not that many "big" dogs but never heard of a toy poodle owner who felt it was a risk factor for that breed .. LOTS of those here


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

rick smith said:


> ... not that many "big" dogs but never heard of a toy poodle owner who felt it was a risk factor for that breed .. LOTS of those here


I don't know Miniature Poodle stats.

Standard Poodles, though, are in the top five or six of the lists I've seen for breed bloat incidence.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

rick smith said:


> isn't this a VERY common procedure done on most gsd's ??
> (it was almost standard practice on two bases i was on, but that was a few years back)
> ...curious what the current policies are ...


http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123217991
"The Okinawa Veterinary Clinic here performs this procedure for all male military working dogs as soon as they arrive here while females have the procedure done at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas."

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=51700
"The U.S. Army Europe Military Working Dog Program is in the process of making sure all dogs have a gastropexy operation, a surgical procedure performed on large-breed dogs to prevent bloat, a life-threatening condition in which the stomach flips over and expands, trapping air and gases in the stomach."


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

This one is for the vets/medical gurus-

As I contemplate doing this with my current dog now that I know his father's stomach twisted....can't a dog bloat and not have the gastric torsion? Is bloat only deadly because it leads to torsion if the pressure is not quickly relieved?

My understanding is that bloat causes the torsion, but it I have been told that even once a dog's stomach is tacked- they can still bloat, it's just not very likely to twist. If that is true, we still need to be cautious about when, what, and how much food per feeding we give our dogs. 

Is this the case?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Wendy
...was the spaying also done based on your recommendation or was it part of your buyer's contract ??


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

So my dog got his gastropexy done yesterday. The incision looks small and clean. He's on a soft diet for the next few days and recheck on Tuesday. I gave him some pain medication to get through but he doesn't seem in any more pain than a neuter. 

The more I've thought about this, and this could just be grief or paranoia talking or both, but in looking at all the risk of complications I would rather deal with that then ever have my dog go through a torsion experience again.

When I found my dog on Saturday, she was in an incredible amount of pain and the look of fear in her eyes is something I can never forget. You could tell she just didn't know what was happening and didn't understand the pain she was in. 

Of all the awful experiences I've watched my dogs go through.... foreign object blockage, parvo, pyo, etc .... this is by far the most horrific thing I've ever seen. 

And the more people I talk to, the more dogs I hear coming down with bloat. Just a few years ago you never heard of anyone with a bloat dog. I've had dogs 15+ years and never experienced this before. I think we all have a false sense of security that those who's dogs bloat must have somehow done something to cause it. I was at training this week and the first comments I got were "well you can't exercise them after feeding" or "oh thats why I feed small meals.".

Hate to break the illusion but my dog had NO FOOD in her stomach when they passed the tube, had not eaten in 4 hours, and had no major activity since earlier in the morning.

And the more comments I get privately on Facebook, the more cases I hear of dogs who do this in the middle of the night, of no relation to food, exercise, elevated food dishes, etc.

There is something seriously wrong that so many dogs seem to be bloating right now. Since the beginning of this year, 3 dogs have bloated in my schutzhund club (two from mesenteric torsion within a few hours of each other). 

If you asked me a few years ago (and keep in mind I showed great danes for several years with several top breeders), I couldn't name a single dog I knew that had bloated. Now it seems to be all over the place. 

Just my opinion .... but I would rather my dog have died under the anesthesia yesterday than him ever have to go through what Cindy went through. She didn't deserve such a horrible death. Once Adonis' recovers I've decided I'm taking all my dogs that are at risk in. Until they figure out what the heck is causing bloat, I'm not taking any chances with any more of my dogs.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sally Crunkleton said:


> This one is for the vets/medical gurus-
> 
> As I contemplate doing this with my current dog now that I know his father's stomach twisted....can't a dog bloat and not have the gastric torsion? Is bloat only deadly because it leads to torsion if the pressure is not quickly relieved?
> 
> ...


Yes, a dog can have gastric dilatation (the GD part of GDV) without the volvulus (the V) or twisting, sometimes called a "food bloat." The gastropexy procedure prevents (but does not 100% eliminate) the ability of the stomach to rotate and twist.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

You are right, Dana: I read everything I can get my hands on about bloat, including studies indicating a 1500% increase in GDV in this country over the last three decades.

And you are right that the very early morning (when we are asleep) is the most common time.



Something else that has happened: huge strides in general anesthesia and in the safety of the gastropexy itself.

To me, your decision seems very thoughtful and considered.

I know your post will cause other dogs to be spared, Dana; Cindy's death is going to result in other dogs' continued lives.


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## Martin Espericueta (Apr 1, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> ...To me, your decision seems very thoughtful and considered.
> 
> I know your post will cause other dogs to be spared, Dana; Cindy's death is going to result in other dogs' continued lives.


Here here!

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Wendy Schmitt (Apr 29, 2009)

The dog was sold on limited registration but it was the owners who wanted to spay the female. 

Wendy


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Sally Crunkleton said:


> This one is for the vets/medical gurus-
> 
> As I contemplate doing this with my current dog now that I know his father's stomach twisted....can't a dog bloat and not have the gastric torsion? Is bloat only deadly because it leads to torsion if the pressure is not quickly relieved?
> 
> ...


My Fila Brasileiro found a way to "upgrade" his daily ration and in the evening I noticed that he looked pretty bloated. We took him to the vets and he gave him an injection (don't know what) and a few minutes later he "sicked" it all up on the road outside the vets litrewise. He was totally healthy the day after.

My Briard was nowhere as bloated but had much different symptoms and after training tried lying down in the grass outside (unheard of for him as he was a very lively dog). We convinced the vet that he was in danger of having a torsion, flanks swelled - and were able to have him under surgery shortly afterwards. He never looked back - he was 6 years' old - and lived to be 13,5.

Once again, bloat is not torsion.

I mistakenly confused the words in English and was ridiculed by Don (Airedale) but would like to keep these two thinks separately.

Extreme bloat must not lead to torsion.

Light bloat can lead to torsion

Am I correct?


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

Any bloating can lead to torsion. Both bloating and torsion are extremely dangerous for the dog but it is typically the torsion that is fatal (cut off circulation to vital organs). 

So even with my dog's stomach now tacked, if he ever does bloat he will still need to get to an ER but it basically buys you more time and will hopefully keep the torsion part from happening. That is what ultimately killed my female is her stomach was flipped and had torn off from the spleen and she became septic. 

My Malinois who bloated before had done so by eating a huge amount of food (he broke out of his crate and ate approximately 1/2 a brand new bag of Acana. We induced vomiting and kept him at the vet for signs of torsion but he simply swelled with food. As I said my other dog's torsion had no relation to food or exercise and she has no genetic history of bloat (I'm familiar with both parents, grandparents, and almost all her siblings).


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Many standard poodles have been tacked when spayed or neutered as a preventative as bloat is something to watch for in this breed. It will not prevent torsion but will buy you time to get to the vets for them to tube the dog. One SP I know has bloated 4 times after being tacked, but she has many other issues including IBD. Some lines can be prone to bloat, but since some breeders may not admit to having it in their lines.....well. 

http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/FactSheetBloat.pdf


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Dana McMahan said:


> In all the years I've been in dogs, I had never heard of case at such an advanced age but it turns out it is twice as likely to happen after the age of 7.


A standard poodle breeder had 2 dogs bloat at age 11 and 12. It caused her to reevaluate her whole program.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I don't know Miniature Poodle stats.
> 
> Standard Poodles, though, are in the top five or six of the lists I've seen for breed bloat incidence.


GDV discussed a lot on a poodle forum. But I trust people here a lot more than them!  My vet thinks that miniatures are enough different from stanards (genetically), that there is no reason to do it.

"Buying time to get to the vet" is not a factor for me. I know, I'm spoiled. :wink:


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

We have some extremely knowledgeable vets and longtime poodle people on a couple of the poodle oriented yahoo groups. I have never heard of a mini getting bloat or of a mini getting tacked. 

I should ask that question. Legg Calves Perthes, PRA and luxating patellas are things you should look for in minis. Oh, and despite what some breeders say, minis should get their hips xrayed as well.

Is this mini your new service dog??


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Melissa Blazak said:


> We have some extremely knowledgeable vets and longtime poodle people on a couple of the poodle oriented yahoo groups. I have never heard of a mini getting bloat or of a mini getting tacked.
> 
> I should ask that question. Legg Calves Perthes, PRA and luxating patellas are things you should look for in minis. Oh, and despite what some breeders say, minis should get their hips xrayed as well.
> 
> Is this mini your new service dog??


 
Yes, he is. The breeder has extensive health testing (PRA, CHIC, CERF, OFA) going back generations. They gave me a nice health guarantee because of it. Good people. Patellas are the first thing my vet checked. They're good.  I'm planning on doing OFA just for curiosity.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maybe not common but my buddy's wife lost her Mini Poodle to bloat.


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