# teaching directionals



## Sarah Platts

Looking for ideas on how to teach directionals that do not use balls or bumpers at the target sites. There is no retrieving nor can the dog come back to the handler. I'm thinking it will need to be done using clickers and maybe a marking stick but if anyone has a better idea please chime in.


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## Faisal Khan

You can use a remote target (say a touch pad) and give direction with your hand next to the dogs face when he is sitting in basic position. Wait for the time when the dogs eyes acquire the target and mark it verbally for example "good" then use the send command. The dog will go to the target that he locked on when you mark, so pay close attention to his focus when you mark.

If he is looking all over the place, stop. Heel a few paces, change directions and start over (closer to the target).


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## Ted Summers

"place" from a distance with multiple platforms?


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## Faisal Khan

Just saw this is in the SAR forum! you might have been asking for something totally foreign, if so, please ignore reply


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## Sarah Platts

Faisal Khan said:


> You can use a remote target (say a touch pad) and give direction with your hand next to the dogs face when he is sitting in basic position. Wait for the time when the dogs eyes acquire the target and mark it verbally for example "good" then use the send command. The dog will go to the target that he locked on when you mark, so pay close attention to his focus when you mark.
> 
> If he is looking all over the place, stop. Heel a few paces, change directions and start over (closer to the target).


Nope, this is what I'm asking for. But it's a SAR dog as opposed to a ring sport dog. Also I forgot to mention..... The dog's like 10 weeks old. So we are starting pretty basis here. I know I can start teaching it if using bumpers or balls but I was told that since there is no retrieving back to the handler that I should avoid using that method. I'm thinking something like clicker-place marker and /or touch stick but looking for any better ideas or approaches.


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## Sarah Platts

Ted Summers said:


> "place" from a distance with multiple platforms?


Yes, eventually. Basically its what SAR folks call 'running the bases' - home plate, pitcher mound, 1st, 2nd, 3rd bases. It's like the retriever send-out but with no return back to the handler.


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## Faisal Khan

10 weeks old! You are waaay behind! what were you thinking?


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## Sarah Platts

Faisal Khan said:


> 10 weeks old! You are waaay behind! what were you thinking?


Way behind what? 'way early I could understand but behind? I admit I'm a procrastinator and a bit of a Scarlett O'Hara ( I'll think about that tomorrow) but I'm trying to do better. Honest....lol


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## David Winners

I teach directional signals after the dog is responding well to odor. I set up a training venue with 2 small known hides about 50' apart in an open area, perpendicular to the direction of the wind. I work the dog on a long line in harness. 

Bring the dog to the downwind center of the hides carefully keeping him out of odor.

Say RIGHT about a second prior to walking to the right while giving your hand signal, encouraging the dog with the long line. The dog should walk right into odor and respond.

Repeat the process to the left.

Continue this training by backing up your start point and spreading out the hides. The more the dog is successful by listening to you, the more likely it is to follow your directions.

When the dog is responding well to verbal commands on leash, you can move to off leash training.

Set up a problem just like the first on leash venue, but up against a fence and with only 1 hide, so the dog can not move downwind of the hides or go the wrong way and bee successful. Say RIGHT just before walking right and giving the hand signal. Repeat this scenario to the left, and eventually increase the distance to the hides.

Once the dog is responding how you would like, move to an easy open area with 1 known hide upwind and off to the side. Give your command and watch the dog. If you like what you see, continue the training on known hides until the behavior is solid.

You have to put in enough reps to get it in the dogs head that it pays to search where the handler directs.

I hope this is understandable and helps. Feel free to ask if you want further guidance.

David Winners


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## Gillian Schuler

Don't know whether this will help:

Place a mat a few yards away - let the dog see you do it, held by a colleague or tied, and then come back and send it to the mat - run after it and reward it at the mat.

Always put the mat in the same place but keep on increasing the distance to it from behind! In IPO we sometimes command the dog to down until we approach with a reward but I guess you could find some way around this.

The idea is that with increasing the distance backwards from the mat, the dog will eventually not see it, but will be so accustomed to running out to the mat, that it will become automatic.


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## Sarah Platts

Thanks, Gillian and David. These are the type of suggestions I am looking for. I know I am starting pretty young but I think that if you begin to lay the ground work early, even if not entirely successful, and even if you do it for a period, stop, and then pick it back up later that things will be easier later. Dog picks it up faster. They've done it before but now the "Aha" moment comes.


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## Gillian Schuler

I would continue with the Training and not Interrupt it.


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## Gillian Schuler

Sarah,

We have competition SAR Trials, i.e. from SAR 1-3.

Whosoever reaches SAR 3, successfully, can apply to take the SAR test for Search and Resucue in live. This is obviously not a test on the dog alone but on the handler, for various reasons. 

A lot of our SAR Trainers and Dogs have been involved in overseas issues.

How does your Club define the teams that are to be relegated to National or International deployment?

Gill


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## Matt Vandart

Old gun dog dude round here trains it with a box of matches. He has the dog sat a bit in front of him says the direction and throws the matchbox that way, lol. I'm pretty sure its more than that, but it works for him.


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## Gillian Schuler

Matt Vandart said:


> Old gun dog dude round here trains it with a box of matches. He has the dog sat a bit in front of him says the direction and throws the matchbox that way, lol. I'm pretty sure its more than that, but it works for him.


How far can the old gun dog dude throw?


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## Matt Vandart

lol, I just seen him out in the street, turns out he doesn't actually throw it, so that's a bum steer, he shakes it. Amazing really I aint seen that dude in like months, I think it's a sign, lol


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## Karen Nesbitt

Sarah,

I have a USAR dog that had to learn directionals...the link below gives you some ideas on how to train this.
There are several different ways and as you go along you will add your own twists to the process.
One thing I did learn is always start with the hardest direction,,,which is back.
Also don't worry about the ball or toy,,,I used both and it can be incorporated into the reward..

http://www.vsrda.org/direction-a-control

Good luck,,,and yes starting young is smart,,seems like it took my dogs (trained 2 dogs) forever but it really didn't,,be patient.

Karen
MA-TF1


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## Sarah Platts

Gillian Schuler said:


> How does your Club define the teams that are to be relegated to National or International deployment?
> 
> Gill


The biggest issue is that the handler (it's amazing how many SAR folks are fat and/or out of shape) be in good physical shape and both dog and handler have got to be able to function in the area of deployment. I say good shape because good local health care may not be available. Accidents could always happen but if you are in bad shape to begin with, it's just trouble. It takes a lot of money to bring an outside team in and they have got to be able to perform. No excuses. The team has to be certified and usually has similar experience in a similar environment. In other words if it's a hot or cold weather situation the team has functioned under those conditions before. If it's high altitude, the team is already acclimated to the heights involved. So forth and so on.

Then it's the basics: passport, support staff if necessary, health certificates, necessary shots, import regulations of the host country, etc.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Sarah Platts said:


> Yes, eventually. Basically its what SAR folks call 'running the bases' - home plate, pitcher mound, 1st, 2nd, 3rd bases. It's like the retriever send-out but with no return back to the handler.


I did "Baseball" as Ted Summers describes. My dogs could care less about toys. I taught the target in the kitchen and didn't take much to be able to send them from one to the other and from there took it outside and began adding distance. I think you can lay the foundation with the puppy depending on how well he connects the dots. All of my work was done with marker training and just expanding the distance.

T


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## Sarah Platts

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I did "Baseball" as Ted Summers describes. My dogs could care less about toys. I taught the target in the kitchen and didn't take much to be able to send them from one to the other and from there took it outside and began adding distance. I think you can lay the foundation with the puppy depending on how well he connects the dots. All of my work was done with marker training and just expanding the distance.
> 
> T


Thanks, I'm going to start with Gillian's suggestin of a mat instead of the long flat plastic tubs I had. I think I will also start in the hallway so I limit his options and funnel him in the correct direction without distractions. Once I have the basic idea planted then I will move to the living room or backyard. I had someone else suggest using the plastic netting from construction sites or snow fencing also. Another suggested that if it was summer, they would take a lawn mower and mow out the pattern in tall grass so that the grass took the place of a fence and provide visual reference.


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## Nancy Jocoy

How much directional control do you find necessary? I have pretty much relied on broad sweeps to check uncovered areas such as culverts or voids in a search but that is not disaster. And I pretty much just taught it by throwing balls with the dog absent then fake throwing in that direction.

First to admit my directional control is not very precise but more along the line of the dog free-searching with me noting coverage in my head.

Open minded. The vsarda link looks pretty comprehensive.


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## Sarah Platts

Nancy Jocoy said:


> How much directional control do you find necessary? I have pretty much relied on broad sweeps to check uncovered areas such as culverts or voids in a search but that is not disaster. And I pretty much just taught it by throwing balls with the dog absent then fake throwing in that direction.
> 
> First to admit my directional control is not very precise but more along the line of the dog free-searching with me noting coverage in my head.
> 
> Open minded. The vsarda link looks pretty comprehensive.


Part of this is because I'm a learning junkie. Part of this is because I worked with another gal who did the free searching method and then could not direct her dog into the areas missed and dog would not go on his own. 
Every new dog (Gus is number 6) I use it as the opportunity to try other peoples' methods and ideas and give them a whirl. If something doesn't work, I can still teach is the old way. But when I recommend something, I feel more confident because I've actually done it and its not just something I saw someone else do. 
Mike's scent tubes is one of my new somethings too. Most of my dogs do the hunting dog coursing left and right as you walk through an area but when I got involved with NAPWDA cadaver testing which includes the rubble element, I decided I needed more of a "send" then I did before. When I ran Sam through his first NAPWDA cadaver test, I had to walk him through the whole rubble pile because that type of searching was new for him. Did a spot of training a couple of months later at the Lithicum rubble site, and it was clear - this needed work. Came home and build platforms, catwalks, teeter-totters, sway bridges, ladders, etc in the backyard to get him use to movement and foot placement issues. Next year at Lithicum, he was very confident to the point that the woman running the clinic told me I was sending him across the pile in directions that she wouldn't recommend someone else do. 

Then I worked a burned out house and I was able to send Sam into areas that our combined weight alone would have made it unsafe but he was able to safely navigate through. So since the weather makes house training more of the venue, I'm trotting out all the new stuff that can be done inside and seeing how it goes.

One of my new matras for the new year is: If you only do things the way you've always done them before, then the results you get will be the same as before. However, if you try something new, you might end up with something better that you would never have gotten if you hadn't tried it in the first place.


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## Nancy Jocoy

Open minded on it. Beau's very first real rubble pile was his NAPWDA cert test and they had them up high in the pile. He was willing to go up on the pile using the general sweeps though without me and did fine. I was sweating bullets. We don't get as many opportunities to train at quarries as I like. During actual searching, I am still a bit hesitant to give too much direction. It is, as you know, a balance.

No definitely open to it. One thing we did with Beau as a pup was agility training because Grim always had no idea of where his feet were (he did not care, but he also managed to get more injuries than necessary...Beau is pretty good with foot placement)..but mainly all we worked on was foot placement and the obstacles, not so much the patterns and direction.


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## Ariel Peldunas

What I found works best with puppies is teaching casting to place boards and send outs with food on a target. I learned this from Pat Nolan and I really like the results I've gotten with my pups. I waited until my Malinois was on odor to teach her directionals and although she has the concept of which direction to go, she tends to be more independent and winds up changing directions when she starts searching again.

I think for your purpose, using place boards to teach casting and food on a target for straight send outs and eventually sending to a place board will work best. I am familiar with the SAR baseball diamond test and you could easily have your pup nailing that in a few months.

Anyway, with a young pup, I started with a 1'x1' piece of plywood with two small pieces of 2x4 attached to the bottom. Basically, I wanted it raised just slightly and less prone to sliding all over the place. I start in my kitchen with minimal distractions. Start with one and work on the puppy getting the idea that being on the place board produces reward. You can decide if you want the puppy to sit or stand or down (for down you might need a bit bigger board). Once the puppy gets the idea that sitting (I use sit) on the board is good, lure the pup off and then use the hand with treats in it to "cast" the pup back on it. Switch sides so sometimes you're casting with left and sometimes with right. Once the pup gets that, cast with a hand with no food and then immediately reward. Once you've got the pup casting to one board, add another and practice casting back and forth and calling the pup to you.

For lining/send outs, you can use a place board or an upside down bowl or something that stands out. Carry or walk the pup up to it, let the pup see you place the treat, then back up (try to keep the pup focused on the target), set the pup down and let them run to it and get the treat. Start close and work your way back. Eventually, you add a command to this and can eliminate the food and just have the pup take a line to a place board.

Here are some videos from Pat's YouTube site. The last two are my malinois and I working on casting with an adult dog and toy reward. Look around on his YouTube channel. There are plenty of videos about what you're working on.

Puppy casting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBDax7lcIc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mORVERcSPsU

Puppy lining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLX575nNl4g

8 week old pup casting and lining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCOzL3Ykjps

My malinois and I doing casting drills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAqSWzhjT8g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeDnEiz9lQQ


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## Terrasita Cuffie

I marker trained my puppies to down on a 12 x 18 mat in the kitchen--that's the target. It was all free shaped. Pretty soon on their own, they would go to a mat and down on it. Next I added a second mat. Didn't take much to get them going from mat to mat--all free shaped. I then set up base ball out in the field. I can 360 them from base to base and do a straight directional from home plate to the pitchers mound or 2nd base. Shane Carter recommended the Wolter's book and I modified it a little. Wolters sends the dogs to their bumper toys. With one dog, to get speed, I sat a bowl of food on the mat. I also go to the mat to reward after I mark. When I stopped last fall with one dog, she was doing 100 feet and with redirects. 

Terrasita


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