# Belgian Malinois



## Neil Zive

I was wondering how people in this forum rate the Belgian Malinois as a personal protection dog ?


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## Carol Boche

As a PPD I will not comment, although I have seen some great ones and not so great ones.....

But as far as an all-around, willing to please thier handler working dog, I LOVE them.


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## Gary Garner

Hiya Neil,

Welcome to the forum.

Perhaps I shouldn't post on this thread, as I don't own a Malinois. However, the Malinois that I've seen in real life training and situations have been mixed, from excellent to dreadful.

But I think that can be the case with many breeds.

Some describe the Malinois as "always on pins", almost nervous in it's behaviour and as such makes a good protection dog. This can also backfire, with a dog that 'alerts' to everyone and everything without prioritising or categorising.

I've worked with the German polizei who primarily use Malinois as service dogs and it was quite easy to see how they could be used in personal protection situations/everyday life with some great confidence on your part.

I'd certainly not count out a Malinois as my next dog, I'm just hoping a get a good decade out of my GSD.

How do you find your own Malinois performs? Is it your first Mali?

Best Regards,
Gary

ps: I like the Oketz badge


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## Kadi Thingvall

I'll admit to being biased, but IMO the Malinois is the Ferrari of the working dog \\/ that said, not everyone can drive a Ferrari, or even wants to. Some people might like a 4x4 Truck instead, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I think like any other breed, you can find the exceptional, the good, and the horrible. The biggest issue I would see with a Malinois as a PPD for the average home would be their ability to live with the dog, as a Malinois can be a lot of dog (energy) for someone who mainly wants a dog to protect when needed, and just hang out the rest of the time. If someone is looking for a PPD who they want to train on a regular basis, spend a lot of time with, take hiking, or otherwise have an active lifestyle with the Malinois might be the right breed for them. But if they are looking for a dog they put 3 months of training in to, then maybe once a year go do some refresher training and otherwise the dog just hangs out around the house, they may have a hard time finding a Malinois that would be suitable, or that they would be happy with.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Depends on practicality or performance. In performance, I don't think there is much question they are certainily capable of performing the job. But from what I've read from you all, deterrance is a big part of practicality in PPDs. On the deterrant side, a Rottweiler, Doberman, German shepherd (or perhaps even a husky or Malamute, in my experience) even from a shelter or show breeder with not a lick of working drive or ability will have more of a presence than even the best trained Malinois. I'd even say a Dutch shepherd would out rank a Mal just on looks because something about the brindle makes people more wary. So even though Malinois are often very talented dogs in many venues, they can be difficult to live with with how much mental and physical exercise they require and they (IMHO) don't have quite the deterrance factor that other breeds have. So maybe us Malinois owners are just gluttons for punishment. \\/


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## Gary Garner

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Depends on practicality or performance. In performance, I don't think there is much question they are certainily capable of performing the job. But from what I've read from you all, deterrance is a big part of practicality in PPDs. On the deterrant side, a Rottweiler, Doberman, German shepherd (or perhaps even a husky or Malamute, in my experience) even from a shelter or show breeder with not a lick of working drive or ability will have more of a presence than even the best trained Malinois. I'd even say a Dutch shepherd would out rank a Mal just on looks because something about the brindle makes people more wary. So even though Malinois are often very talented dogs in many venues, they can be difficult to live with with how much mental and physical exercise they require and they (IMHO) don't have quite the deterrance factor that other breeds have. So maybe us Malinois owners are just gluttons for punishment. \\/


Superb post. =D>


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## Terry Fisk

I have a 35 lb black Aussie that I'd love to do PP work with her. She will do a search and alert, bark on command and does a great vehicle guard. However, she would be most effective at night (in stealth mode) becase in the daylight any intruder would simply die laughing at her size.


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## Carol Boche

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Depends on practicality or performance. In performance, I don't think there is much question they are certainily capable of performing the job. But from what I've read from you all, deterrance is a big part of practicality in PPDs. On the deterrant side, a Rottweiler, Doberman, German shepherd (or perhaps even a husky or Malamute, in my experience) even from a shelter or show breeder with not a lick of working drive or ability will have more of a presence than even the best trained Malinois. I'd even say a Dutch shepherd would out rank a Mal just on looks because something about the brindle makes people more wary. So even though Malinois are often very talented dogs in many venues, they can be difficult to live with with how much mental and physical exercise they require and they (IMHO) don't have quite the deterrance factor that other breeds have. So maybe us Malinois owners are just gluttons for punishment. \\/


Yeah....I agree....between your profile pic and Gary's profile pic....I would tend to stay away from Gary more than you Maren....:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Neil Zive

This is my first Malionois. I absolutely love him and he is producing great results for me. I own a security company and he comes to call-outs with me all the time. He is a great detterent and has had one live bite. I do not want to put him into a bad sitaution yet as he is only 16 months and still has allot of training to do. I find him to be good at protection training and use real life scenarios all the time. He works with multiple helpers and shows great courage and intensity. So to sum up I am finding him great and will always have a Malinois as my first choice


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## Neil Zive

When I first got my Mally he was really full of energy and quite a shock to my system. But as time has gone by we have both adapted to eachother. I suppose I am lucky because he works with me day and night and there is always some action, which keeps him interested. I do protection training 3 times a week with him and walk everyday. He displays no aggression in public until prompted to by me or if he can see threatening behaviour being displayed towrds me. He is an absolute pleasure to accompany me everywhere. I have a 4 year old girl and a baby. He loves my four year old and plays gently with her. The baby he just avoids all the time. He will walk into my room, see her and turn around immediately..It is quite funny. I think he is a great PPD but as mentioned these dogs are not for everyone and always need to be working.


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## Chris Michalek

Neil Zive said:


> I was wondering how people in this forum rate the Belgian Malinois as a personal protection dog ?



Why are you asking if you already have a Mali?


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## Neil Zive

I was trying to get other opinions on the subject as this is my first Mal


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## Chris Michalek

Neil Zive said:


> I was trying to get other opinions on the subject as this is my first Mal


that's obvious but shouldn't you have done that BEFORE you bought the dog?


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## Carol Boche

Neil Zive said:


> I was trying to get other opinions on the subject as this is my first Mal





Chris Michalek said:


> that's obvious but shouldn't you have done that BEFORE you bought the dog?



Nah, I had tons of questions after I got my first one....and I had researched and also helped with and handled quite a few with a few different Master Trainers, before I decided to get one. 

Nothing wrong with wondering at all.......now there is 3 mals living with me.....:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Gary Garner

Chris Michalek said:


> that's obvious but shouldn't you have done that BEFORE you bought the dog?


Let's be right thought Chris - the man might be considering another dog, or he might be facing some problems with his current dog and wants to sort things..

Or even, perhaps his dog was bought as a pet or a sport dog and now he's training it in PP and wants some opinions..

I don't think we need to shoot the messenger (thread starter) for this one..

Gary


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## Chris Michalek

Gary Garner said:


> Let's be right thought Chris - the man might be considering another dog, or he might be facing some problems with his current dog and wants to sort things..
> 
> Or even, perhaps his dog was bought as a pet or a sport dog and now he's training it in PP and wants some opinions..
> 
> I don't think we need to shoot the messenger (thread starter) for this one..
> 
> Gary



I understand but this is how high drive dogs end up at the humane society because people failed to do the research first.

I think the poster would have been more forthright in saying, I have a mal and I want to train him for PP why do you guys think etc...

I personally felt a little duped in thinking that he was THINKING about getting a dog for PP and was considering a Mal. Judging by some of the other responses, they thought the same as me.

In the end, no harm done. He's got a cool dog and we all know a good Mal is arguably the best working dog in the world.


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## Neil Zive

Chris Michalek said:


> that's obvious but shouldn't you have done that BEFORE you bought the dog?


I am not sure what point you are trying to make ?


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## Neil Zive

I did research the Maly before I got one. I was just trying to find out if others may have had some good or bad points about the Mal as a PPD. I have noticed while reading through many posts on this site that some people become quite beligerent with one another, and I am picking up that tone ....why ? Can't people just discuss the topic and not look for arguments ?


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## Lee H Sternberg

Neil Zive said:


> I did research the Maly before I got one. I was just trying to find out if others may have had some good or bad points about the Mal as a PPD. I have noticed while reading through many posts on this site that some people become quite beligerent with one another, and I am picking up that tone ....why ? Can't people just discuss the topic and not look for arguments ?


Hi Neil - Someone more eloquent than I may be able to explain this better. I think dogs are a very passionate subject to most of the people on this site. Added to that there are many different opinions on the same subject.

Plus, even though we use real names here, most people don't really know who the hell we are.

Sometimes that results in conversations that probably wouldn't take place if people were talking in person.

OR if it did take place in person it would end up in a fist fight.


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## Erik Berg

Neil, more about the individual dog than breed. But for PP, few malinois match the power and presence of a really good GSD I think.


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## Gillian Schuler

A good PPD dog, in my opinion, is a dog with a heart to attack the assailant that tries to attack you. No amount of artificial testing, no choosing of breed will give you what you want. Either the dog will protect you or he won't. A Malinois will protect you as well as any other dog that feels the need to protect its leader. 

Some breeds, such as Fila Braileiros, etc. are wary of strangers by nature and will warn you quickly and will be ready to go to the fro. I know, I had one. It took all of twelve months to really socialise him but he still kept his vigilence over us. My Landseer wouldn't let anyone touch me, even in fun. 

Testing these dogs wasn't necessary. Whether they would have gone after the flleeeing assailant doesn't interest me. They were there to protect us outside and in the home where they lived with us.

I've heard a lot of good reports of Malinois. One was wicked - they had to call him off before he ripped the assaiant to pieces but this isn't a PPD's job in this country. This is reserved for the police. 

Why shouldn't a Malinois be a good PPD. I'm pretty sure if we had one he would protect us like the others.
The GSDs we now have are also more than likely to do so.

It's not just the breed IMO - it has to do with the setup dog + handler + family and whether the dog is strong and confident enough to do what's expected of him. In England our JRTs worked together as a team when my Dad was accosted by a drunkard. One went for the neck - the cat-like one and the other - corgi style - went for the legs.


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## Mo Earle

I love my Mals- I have 5, and I think 3 of them would protect for real, one would hesitate, then probably protect? and the other, well he is running for the hills, and he can run pretty fast!!
All a ball of energy, all the time- but I think it depends on the individual dog- not necessarily the breed.
Can most people handle a Mal- probably not. IMO


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## todd pavlus

Those damn little terriers are monsters, LOL. The worst bite my trainer ever recieved was from a little bosten terrier. Those little terriers are scrappy fighters. Little man syndrome8-[


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## Colin Chin

Mo Earle said:


> I love my Mals
> but I think it depends on the individual dog- not necessarily the breed.
> Can most people handle a Mal- probably not. IMO


Hi Mo,
I am incline to get a Mal pup for myself too but would like to hear from your side at the same time. Base on your experience of owning Mals, what sort of owners are 'suitable' to own this breed ? Please share. Cheers.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Very active owners are good. They obviously need both physical and mental exercise. With a dog like a Rottweiler and some GSDs, they are bulls in a china shop until they mature around 2-3 yrs and then they settle a bit. So when you go train your 4-5 year old Rottie or GSD, that can be most of the exercise for the day, maybe playing some ball in the backyard and they'll settle in the house. While I think more for a similar aged adult Malinois, you've got to go bike with them, hiking off leash, etc to wear them down to get them to settle in the house easier. Both my Mals and my Mal/GSD cross are pretty good *knock on wood* in the house, but it takes a good bit of exercise to keep them that way. I have not found on leash walks to be sufficient except just taking a bit of the edge off.

I think being real heavy handed with them (at least in my limited experience of 2.5 dogs) backfires. My younger is medium hard and can take a fair correction and not at all handler aggressive. However, if he's too excited about something, like getting leashed up to get in the car and I correct him on a prong collar not even super hard, he doesn't shut down like many dogs would from a correction. He just gets too stimulated from it and gets even more excited. So too much crank and yank, especially with a dog who disagrees with you on what a "fair" correction is, is likely not a great idea. I've had no problems motivating my two and going easy on the correctons though.


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## Colin Chin

Thanks Maren for your experience. Talking about daily walk with a Mal, will a 45 mins walk daily enough to wear off some of the energy besides 15 to 20 mins of OB training ? Cheers.


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## Carol Boche

Uh....not in my experience. It may take the "edge" off the energy, but the dog will still want to be busy. 

My Mals go for a 2 to 3 mile run daily (I ride the four wheeler) and we train everyday for obedience work (not competition style, just obedience and I work on new stuff if the dog is ready). Either daily or every other day we train for whatever job they have and also do some agility work. 

Still going.....but they can at least settle when told in the house. 

Marker training is fun and wears their little brains out as well. I do this a lot with the pups since you cannot exercise them too much on their growing bones and joints.


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## Colin Chin

Hi Carol,
Thanks for sharing. Since you are awake (I presume) at this hour on the other side of the world there. LOL. It is 10:21 in the morning over here now.

What breed do you think will be more suitable to live the house with the family members around ? Basically, I intend to work the pup for OB (utmost priority) and hopefully I get to advance thereof to something else later. Just wanna do one thing at a time. Please share. Cheers.


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## Carol Boche

I did not think I would ever say this, and Betty and Jason are going to razz me for it.....

What do you think about GSD's? 

I am not saying Mals and Dutchies do not make good family companions, but if your not clear on what you want to do besides obedience yet....a Mal may prove to be a bit of a handful for you. 

Not trying to discourage you at all, as even some of the GSD's out there can be a challenge as well, but I am not wondering if they would not be a better choice for you and your family?


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## Colin Chin

Carol,
I did think about a GSD as well. Just thinking that if I can't get a good female GSD pup, I will go for a female Mal pup instead that I know a breeder who has experience raising Mals both male and female from pup to adulthood. At least, I could get some advice whenever the needs arise (which is a lot). LOL Honestly, the kind of work I would like to do with my pup later on (after OB) is agility and protection related. It is just that I try not to be too ambitious about it as it is going to be my very first working pup. Just wanna go slow and hopefully I get to see the light later. I am green here. Cheers.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Yeah, mine are the same. A leash walk really doesn't do much for them. I mean, you can if you want to if you really enjoy walking around the neighborhood or whatever. But they'll likely need something on top of that every other day at absolute minimum. 

The best way I've found to exercise them as adults to find a trail, turn them off leash (assuming your dog has an excellent recall, of course), and bike (or a four wheeler, like Carol suggested) down the trail while they run usually between a fast trot to full tilt gallop the whole time. Going like this for just 15 minutes will be way more effective than a 45 minute walk. Something like a Springer for a bike attachment might be good if you don't have any off leash trails they can safely go on. Mine are actually pretty good house dogs (all are asleep at my feet now), but then again, I took the younger dogs for a bike ride before sunset this afternoon. The main time they drive me really crazy is during January or whatever when it's too cold or icy to do much outside. I may have them pull the kiddie sled if I need something hauled if there's snow, but usually that's when we work on lots of quick obedience sessions.

If you're wanting nice flashy obedience, that can come from many kinds of dogs that are still active, but don't need quite as much. GSDs, Rotties, pit bulls, etc all could probably work. Border collies and Aussies would be too, but they have high exercise requirements too.


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## Ashley Hiebing

Maren Bell Jones said:


> If you're wanting nice flashy obedience, that can come from many kinds of dogs that are still active, but don't need quite as much. GSDs, Rotties, pit bulls, etc all could probably work. Border collies and Aussies would be too, but they have high exercise requirements too.


I admit that I've never lived with a Malinois and so I don't know quite HOW active they are, but I know that pits really run the gamut from lazy lap dogs to crazy pocket rockets that need the amount of exercise you're suggesting for a Mal. This is really probably due to overbreeding mediocre dogs, though =(


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## Colin Chin

Maren and Ashley, what are you guys doing at the wee hour of the day there ? Over here is 1338 in the afternoon in my country. 

Maren,
From your description of the Mal, does it mean that one has to work the Mal all the time all day long something like a workholic ? Cheers


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## Mo Earle

Hi Colin, I think anyone that wants a Mal, just needs to be dedicated- in giving them the time they require.
Some may argue all dogs need attention- which is true, Mals just need that much more. IMO
We started training Hugo his positions at 6 weeks old-started his bite work right away also-of course using a flirt pole- he was like a sponge, learning fast- but HIGH HIGH energy, a ton of drive- is not handler aggressive, but if the decoy puts up a stronger fight- the fight is on- he gets that from Chico-"hardhead"!! He is ready to go by 6:30 a.m. and will let you know...we said we should have called him Rooster...
- got Tango at 6 months, and was able to get his Brevet in French Ring just about the time he was a year old.Another sponge,great dog, super social too... We trained 3 times a week, formally- and exercise,swimming,running and training daily.
-got Chico older, he was ?6 or so, was still able to compete with him in PSA, NVBK, had fun- he is over 11 now, and still has a ton of energy- also real social, and just a great dog!
-Tora we got at ?a year old, she needs just as much exercise,can be moody, and is very vocal when she doesn't get her way.
and finally we have Rebel, he is a Chico,Tora son- a little over 2 now, and another ball of energy, today he couldn't find a ball in the yard, so an Apple became the next best thing. At times we bring them in the house, but in the Kennel,if they are bored-they will start doing what... we call it the Malinois dance- they all come out, run to the end of the kennel, come back and bounce of the building and start again....they will do this over and over-...they all do it...

If you are to busy with work or family- a Mal might not be the right dog- most aren't the typical family pet dog-But... if you invest the time, energy and get involved in a club or some kind of agility,tracking,bitework,flyball...etc training- they are an all around awesome dog and can be a blast-definately start training, socialization, and what ever kind of training you think you are going to get involved in...EARLY....it will make things so much easier. good luck Mo


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## Colin Chin

Morning Mo,
Thank you so much for your advice. Just would like to check with you if this is ok. Besides training or working your Mals, are you with them all the time ? Or, you leave them in the dog yard or kennel bound while you are away at work ? Cheers.


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## Bob Scott

I've only had two Mals, and for less then 6-7 months. I realize I can't judge them all by two pups but I can't handle the nerve/envoronmental issues they had. 
I've also seen to many older ones that show great drives but turn into spooks when not in drive and out of their ellement.
Just an observation from someone that cringes when I see a dog that isn't confident all the time.
There are some good Mal breeders here that could probalby make a liar out of me though. :grin: :wink:


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## Anna Kasho

Yeah Bob, you need to find a good dog/breeder. I got lucky with my first mal. Cyko has no nerve or environmental issues. He is sharper, quicker to react, more suspicious of things unknown, but he isn't spooky in any way. Havoc, however, appears super confident and happy untill stressed - and then he will spook bigtime. I still have hopes that he will grow out of it, he has been getting better as he's matured...


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## Mo Earle

Hi Colin, when we are at work- our GSD's can be left in the house, unattended-but for the Mals, we have kennels- indoor and outdoor a/c runs,they can be out all day, or go inside and be out of the weather, the kennel runs are fixed with tops on the runs-the Mals have all been taught the palisade(from French Ring) so can easily jump out of the runs (6ft high) as well as the perimeter fencing. So to be responsible, and not to keep them locked in a crate in the house all day-they each have their own run.( and they use it, doing the Malinois dance) Right now as I type this, I have Tango and Hugo lying on the living room floor- once I decide to go to bed, Hugo goes in a crate, Tango he will stay in our room and be fine.Rebel,Tora and Chico pretty much stay in the kennel-but have access to the yard when we are home, and do well. Hope this helps...Mo


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## Colin Chin

Morning Mo,
I intend to have my pup to be indoor as part of the family from day one when we are home. As for starter, I think I will bring her to my parents' house when we go to work when there's no one at home. At least, this is for puppy stage. And then, we will pick her up from work. That much, she's still in touch with humans around the whole day round and from my work place to parents' house is about 20mins drive so I could still go and see her during my lunch break.

Then, we will have 24/7 with her for the whole weekend. What do you think of my arrangement for my future pup ? Of course, I intend to build a kennel run for her so that I can put her in there when she turns adult if she's not going to my parents' house.

Please advice and let me know your view. Cheers.


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## Mo Earle

hi Colin, I think your plan sounds good. I would definately crate train your pup for housebreaking-it will not only make housebreaking easier, your pup will travel easier being used to the crate, and if you start going to clubs to train, a lot of the times, your dog will be in the crate, until it is your turn.

I would also allow some alone time, where she is not around anyone, even if only for an hour or so a day, so you don't cause her to have a separation anxiety when she does have to be alone- otherwise, I think you will have a lucky pup!! If I can be of any help, email me anytime...good luck Mo


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## Colin Chin

Morning Mo,
Thanks for the advice. I will certainly crate training her especially while we are asleep at night. Don't want see torn sofas and things like that. Cheers.


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## Bob Scott

Colin, in addition to crate training I would also tether the dog to you when it's out of it's crate. This keeps the dog with you and easier to keep you eye on it. It's also a great way to bond with the dog and teach the dog that you are the leader. Being tetherd to you, it goes when you go, stays where you stay, etc. without a lot of commanding. It just happens!
Remember pups don't make mistakes on their own. We allow them to happen because we're not paying attention.


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## Colin Chin

Afternoon Bob,
May I ask you how to tether the pup to me ? Please advice. Cheers.


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## Carol Boche

I tether with either a 4' or 6' lead hooked to my waist or belt. The pup is then with me wherever I go and cannot get out of my sight. Any behaviors I want are rewarded, negatives are ignored or redirected to something that is acceptable. 

I like tethering because of that AND the fact that the pup soon learns to follow or walk beside me without getting in the way. Proper heel position is rewarded. It also provides a chance to work on obedience stuff throughout the day. I wear a bait bag or keep food in my pocket. 

If I am going to be doing something that the dog cannot be tethered, then they go in the crate.


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## Colin Chin

Thank you so much Carol for the advice. I will definately do that tethering. Cheers.


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## Bob Scott

Couldn't have said it better!


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## Oldk9man

Erik Berg said:


> Neil, more about the individual dog than breed. But for PP, few malinois match the power and presence of a really good GSD I think.


I have owned and trained both Mals, MX and GSD for police, military and protection over my 40 year career. All that being said, some Mals can be suited for PP as can the Mal/GSD mixes as well as the GSDs. I must say this not every dog of any breed is suitable for every situation or handler. I have seen plenty of police & military handlers that are not capable of working the dogs they are given. Mals typically have extreme drives and energy. Those maybe too much for a normal PP dog. Seek out someone with a good and long history training and selling Mals. Be honest even to yourself what you actually need and the level of dog you need and can handle. This also applies to your spouse and the dog’s nature and drive levels around your children. I venture to say that the majority of people wanting a PP dog of any breed don’t need a dog that will actually engage a person straight out. One that puts up a good front, will do some basic bite work and is very obedient usually is all they actually need. Also, consider the needs of the dog a high energy dog like a typical Mal is going to require LOTS of exercise and of course not suited for someone with limited time. Also, remember a dog is not a offensive tool you have to understand that you will also need to conduct proficiency training with the dog at least monthly. Beware of any breed Mals especially that are very defensive in nature French bred Mal can have this tendency as do AKC dogs. BECAREFUL what you ask for you may end up with more than you or your situation can deal with.


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