# Keeping your dog on a chain



## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Just curious, besides ruining the grass what are the downsides to this? I see a lot of the hunting and sled dog folks keep their dogs on tie outs to their dog houses. The dogs appear fit and healthy.
Why is this rarely done with GSDs, Mals or Dutchies? 
Seems like an efficient low cost method for keeping multiple dogs. They would get just as much room as a medium sized kennel from what I can see. The biggest challenge I can think of would be overturning the water dish.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Haz Othman said:


> Just curious, besides ruining the grass what are the downsides to this? I see a lot of the hunting and sled dog folks keep their dogs on tie outs to their dog houses. The dogs appear fit and healthy.
> Why is this rarely done with GSDs, Mals or Dutchies?
> Seems like an efficient low cost method for keeping multiple dogs. They would get just as much room as a medium sized kennel from what I can see. The biggest challenge I can think of would be overturning the water dish.


Chains are economic and easy to use but can tie up or tie into eachother, damaging the dog in all sorts of matters or just choking him if you are unlucky. Add to that the fact that a chain might break or come loose from whereever its attached to or in? Kennel is safer and easier with less damage or worry. 

And before anyone starts saying things like "Thick heavy chains, concrete, sturdy iron hooks and bolts" and them not being easy to break.... They break! Trust me they break and not as hard as you would think it to be. Have a 70 pound dog put constant unrelenting pressure on it and it will break at some point, and that point might come sooner then you would like it to come :lol:

Can't even count the times that I have seen dogs break loose from chains that were pretty damn tough and took a shitload of time to even saw through, yet their constant bouncing managed to break them.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Toni once used what he said was a very strong wire, covered in plastic and attached it to a heavy ring in the ground. He stood next to his dog and seconds after I began the routine with mine, his dog was with us. I will never trust anything like this again. The force of the dog pulling should never be underestimated.


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

While a tie out can be handy, I can post several negatives.

1, Dog tied to a tree can be struck by lightning. Yes i personally know a pit bull breeder that lost 3 dogs to a strike to some of his pine trees.

2, I personally know of child that became entangled in their dog's tie out chain and was crushed by the dog on accident. Happened in a matter of seconds when the mother though her 4 year old was walking behind her into the house and instead the child had run back to pet her favorite dog. My friend has still not fully recovered from the loss of her child and all her dogs because the county confiscated and kill all the dog she had. (Don't crucify me for details left out due to respect of the family)

3, Rottweiler on over head trolly line (AKA Cable runner) wound up the cable so much he actually pulled his front feet off the ground and hung himself to death.

4, they break way more often then you think. And they rust which often leaved rusty red stains on the dogs coat. 

5, and lastly because there is nothing in my back yard i need guarded i'd rather have my own dog in my house. But that's just me.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

A lot of places has tethering laws now which dictate how long and under what conditions the dog is kept on a chain.

There's been a lot of behavioral work coming out about the negative aspects of long term tethering with mental and social aspects of the dog. I'm not sure if there is a difference between long term tethering or long term penning (kenneling). I guess it comes down to how much time is the dog spending off the chain and what's he doing when he's off?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I wouldn't tie dogs out unattended like that due to all the things that could go wrong that have been mentioned. Just like any other containment method, you'd have to know your dogs and your equipment. I see nothing wrong with it, but don't see any benefit for me to utilize this for dogs, currently.

I have seen a vendor do just this with GSDs and Malis, with very little issue, to get multiple dogs out in the sunshine between work sessions and on down days. Also, the US military does this on a regular basis, or used to, while going through dog school. The dogs are staked out between work sessions, as many dogs as are in a class. Again, instructors knew who not to put close to who, and the dogs were monitored or checked on frequently.

There are a benefits to working a dog on a backtie (chain or rope) teaching them bitework that can be very negative to a dog not intended to do bitework that is left on a chain. Opposition reflex, drive building, etc..

I would say there are dog wise people that can and will do it with little to no issue. 





Haz Othman said:


> Just curious, besides ruining the grass what are the downsides to this? I see a lot of the hunting and sled dog folks keep their dogs on tie outs to their dog houses. The dogs appear fit and healthy.
> Why is this rarely done with GSDs, Mals or Dutchies?
> Seems like an efficient low cost method for keeping multiple dogs. They would get just as much room as a medium sized kennel from what I can see. The biggest challenge I can think of would be overturning the water dish.


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Not too long ago I was sent to a residence by concerned citizen who thought a dog was tangled up on tie out chain. Full size Pyr and she wasnt dog savvy so she was afraid to approach. Owners werent home. When I got there the dog was dead, and had been for awhile. Tether had gotten hung up on stump, then wrapped around dogs middle. As it struggled to escape it had constricted itself to death. You could tell it had suffered for awhile.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I know of a lot of dogs tied out and I do it when I have extra dogs. If you use the right chain not necessarily a big chain but the right chain meaning one made of hardened metal I couldn’t imagine one breaking. If a dog breaks a chain it was the wrong chain. As far as the other stuff, I am not one to blame the dog or the chain for hurting a kid or a lightning strike? That’s really digging deep. I think chins are better than a run.JMO


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## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

I used to keep my dog on chain spots but stopped after a few bad experiences:

1. One of my dogs crushed his trachea (he was pretty new to being on a chain and didn't understand that there were boundaries) when he full speed toward a horse in the pasture next to him. The injury has affected the dog's work - he can not be worked on a back tie, participate in weight pull, or have continuous pressure on his neck or his chest and I have tried multiple harnesses. As a result the dog saw a bunch of control work before we setting a good foundation. This was done for his safety as he would work to the point that he would turn blue and start wobbling. He will literally kill himself if I let him. He is an amazing dog too so it sucks that much more.

2. One of my dogs broke his chain off at the base and got into it with another chained up dog. I got an urgent call while I was at work because the two were fighting and my family members were not comfortable approaching. By the time I got there, one of the dogs was standing over a dead body.

My dogs stay in kennels now and have for a few years. I am FAR more comfortable with the safety of this setup. That said, I will put dogs on tie-ups when I am outside and I can provide supervision.

I know a lot of people who are able to do the chain thing successfully and haven't had any problems. Maybe they're lucky, I don't know. I'm just no longer comfortable with it for my dogs.


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## mike finn (Jan 5, 2011)

Haz Othman said:


> Just curious, besides ruining the grass what are the downsides to this? I see a lot of the hunting and sled dog folks keep their dogs on tie outs to their dog houses. The dogs appear fit and healthy.
> Why is this rarely done with GSDs, Mals or Dutchies?
> Seems like an efficient low cost method for keeping multiple dogs. They would get just as much room as a medium sized kennel from what I can see. The biggest challenge I can think of would be overturning the water dish.


 I would prefer a fence, but both my Shepherds scale a seven foot fence like it was not even there, and they can chew through any kennel I put them in. So they are chained up on runs. It works for them but you doo have to be really careful were you put them. One got tangled in the hose and almost choked herself to death. I did not see that one coming. 
My Rott does not jump fences so she can be let out in fenced in area, and has more freedom. 
I do not see any thing wrong with chaining dogs at all, but you do have to monitor them and make sure they have access to their water ect.


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## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

Having done both methods, as I ran sled dogs for years and am now into shepherds, I'll tell you this, I've had more accidents and loose dogs with kennels than I ever had with chained dogs. Either way you need to be certain of your equipment, and sure that it's safe, and properly maintained. I've seen no difference in dogs behavioral issues between the two methods of confinement, if you don't give enough exercise, regardless of method., you're going to have problems, if you give enough stimulation, not so many problems arise. Dogs can get hung up on collars in their kennel, they can rip holes and get their heads stuck, the can get legs and jaws stuck in the mesh, they can scale the walls, flip open the latches, dig out, etc. etc. The point is, no matter how you confine the dogs, the equipment needs to be correctly used or you will have issues.

Ang


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## patricia powers (Nov 14, 2010)

a dog on a chain is at the mercy of any other animal comming its way...... coyotes, wolves, bears, bobcats, skunks, *****, etc. as well as any other dog or cat that might be running loose. i don 't like the idea of having them that vulnerable. i recently saw a pic of a dog yard for sled dogs that were chained, yet they each had a kennel around them to protect them from other animals. 
pjp


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

I prefer kennels but have no problems with well thought out chain runs..a strong chain connected to a car axle driven beneath the earth so there is no tangle point and the chain just comes out of the ground and a very very strong bullsnap or snap swivel at the end of teh line conneted to a high quality collar works well..give the dog a concrete water dish buried into the ground a little and plenty of shade and a heavy kennel at the end of the run...all hardware should be checked for wear and replaced frequently


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Sarah Platts said:


> A lot of places has tethering laws now which dictate how long and under what conditions the dog is kept on a chain.
> 
> There's been a lot of behavioral work coming out about the negative aspects of long term tethering with mental and social aspects of the dog. I'm not sure if there is a difference between long term tethering or long term penning (kenneling). I guess it comes down to how much time is the dog spending off the chain and what's he doing when he's off?


I heard from an elderly former houndsman (English) that the kennel was preferable because the dog saw and clearly understood the barrier, whereas being on a chain gave a frustrating illusion of freedom (no visual impediment), which is perhaps why dogs relentlessly bounce against the end of the chain. Not sure if that is true, but I sure see a lot of frustrated dogs who never get off their chains (in my area). Sad sight, for sure.

Having said that, my mom reports that all her stockmen friends in Australia with working kelpies keep their dogs chained in the shade of a tree when they aren't working, but those dogs do get regularly lots of hours/miles offleash working.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> I heard from an elderly former houndsman (English) that the kennel was preferable because the dog saw and clearly understood the barrier, whereas being on a chain gave a frustrating illusion of freedom (no visual impediment), which is perhaps why dogs relentlessly bounce against the end of the chain. Not sure if that is true, but I sure see a lot of frustrated dogs who never get off their chains (in my area). Sad sight, for sure.
> 
> Having said that, my mom reports that all her stockmen friends in Australia with working kelpies keep their dogs chained in the shade of a tree when they aren't working, but those dogs do get regularly lots of hours/miles offleash working.


 
Ha I think this official answer is “whatever works for you”. I was told and thought the opposite. That a dog felt a bit less confined by not living behind a fence pacing back and forth, Even though it is confined by a chain he did not feel boxed in? 
In my opinion a dog should not break free from a chain any more often than a kennel. 
I think chains got a bad image because of the dogs in the hood


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Good info folks, I just found it strange that a lot of the hunters and sled people use the chain whereas all the gsd/mal x folks seem to like kennels. Wondered if there was differences in the type of dog that caused this. However it seems to be more about personal preference. 
Im moving to a new house this summer and I want an outdoor option for a second dog. Just trying to figure out which one works best for me.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Ang Cangiano said:


> Having done both methods, as I ran sled dogs for years and am now into shepherds, I'll tell you this, I've had more accidents and loose dogs with kennels than I ever had with chained dogs. Either way you need to be certain of your equipment, and sure that it's safe, and properly maintained. I've seen no difference in dogs behavioral issues between the two methods of confinement, if you don't give enough exercise, regardless of method., you're going to have problems, if you give enough stimulation, not so many problems arise. Dogs can get hung up on collars in their kennel, they can rip holes and get their heads stuck, the can get legs and jaws stuck in the mesh, they can scale the walls, flip open the latches, dig out, etc. etc. The point is, no matter how you confine the dogs, the equipment needs to be correctly used or you will have issues.
> 
> Ang


+1 Exactly.

Haz I agree with you too, it's about personal preference and I also think it's about whatever dog culture someone happens to be involved with (monkey see - monkey do).


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Haz Othman said:


> Good info folks, I just found it strange that a lot of the hunters and sled people use the chain whereas all the gsd/mal x folks seem to like kennels. Wondered if there was differences in the type of dog that caused this. However it seems to be more about personal preference.
> Im moving to a new house this summer and I want an outdoor option for a second dog. Just trying to figure out which one works best for me.


 
Im going to guess the hunter/ sled guy has way more dogs than most dog owners


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

What Ang Cangiano said  
I have both kennels and tie outs and both have their pluses and minuses - I have a perimeter fence around both kennels and tieouts - some dogs do prefer one over the other. Both have to be maintained to be safe and secure for the dogs. The tie-outs get more negative commentary from some people but they actual have more "floor space" than my kennel runs.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

patricia powers said:


> a dog on a chain is at the mercy of any other animal comming its way...... coyotes, wolves, bears, bobcats, skunks, *****, etc. as well as any other dog or cat that might be running loose. i don 't like the idea of having them that vulnerable. i recently saw a pic of a dog yard for sled dogs that were chained, yet they each had a kennel around them to protect them from other animals.
> pjp


I cannot imagine a bobcat, skunk, **** or cat coming anywhere near any of my dogs.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I cannot imagine a bobcat, skunk, **** or cat coming anywhere near any of my dogs.


 
I would imagine the other animals coming around dogs to be pretty rare as well?


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## Charles Corbitt (Oct 24, 2012)

I have personally seen a lot of dogs chained to trees with no water and no food living in their own feces. Granted most of these were owned by drug dealers. But I have a personal aversion to any animal kept tied out to tree. We spend a great deal of our time and money on buying and training working dogs. Just can't understand anyone on this site even considering keeping a dog tied to a tree. The cost of a wire kennel is cheap compared to the cost of a working dog prospect puppy. If you can't afford a decent kennel to keep the number of dogs you own, you should put some serious thought into why you have dogs.
Just my opinion, the older I get the more I seem to have.


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## lynn oliver (May 30, 2010)

Well said Charles, in England you very rarely see dogs on chains and I personally would never imagine chaining my dogs to anything, they are family. 
I do understand that some people prefer to kennel their dogs and some are working dogs, but chaining seems wrong.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Charles Corbitt said:


> I have personally seen a lot of dogs chained to trees with no water and no food living in their own feces. Granted most of these were owned by drug dealers. But I have a personal aversion to any animal kept tied out to tree. We spend a great deal of our time and money on buying and training working dogs. Just can't understand anyone on this site even considering keeping a dog tied to a tree. The cost of a wire kennel is cheap compared to the cost of a working dog prospect puppy. If you can't afford a decent kennel to keep the number of dogs you own, you should put some serious thought into why you have dogs.
> Just my opinion, the older I get the more I seem to have.


 

There is a total and complete lack of any logic to what is being said here. This is the ignorance I sorta kinda was touching on above. Do you realize that if you gave these same people a kennel there would still be no food and water? And do you expect to see food in front of a dog at all times? Was the dog healthy looking or was it being starved? Can you explain to me how having no water or food has anything to do with being tied out? I can afford a kennel for my dogs if I wanted it. Tying a dog out to me is a better option that putting it in a cage.


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## patricia powers (Nov 14, 2010)

you can pooh pooh the wild animal theory if you wish, but i know better. coyotes are ruthless & crafty. many a dog has been lost to coyotes. we have a lot of them around here, so i wouldn't dream of having dogs tied out and vulnerable to them. as far as ***** & skunks go......they do some pretty wierd stuff when they are infected with rabies or dystemper. female ***** often steal dogfood from dogs when they are feeding a litter. i don't relish the idea of wild animals feasting in my dogs' dishes. (saliva) pjp


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## Charles Corbitt (Oct 24, 2012)

Sorry Chris, I thought I made it obvious, "chained to trees with no water and no food living in their own feces". But, these dogs were starved for both food and attention, don't know why you focused on the food and disregarded the "no water and living in their own feces". I don't believe either of us are talking cages but for terminology 
a crate is an Airline Approved Transportation Container, a kennel is a usually a wire framed area of approximately minimum 6' by 12' with a shelter or dog house included. I have never heard of a kenneled dog dying from the kennel. I have seen and heard of several dogs dying on a chain or cable tie-out. Had no intention of insulting you or anyone that ties their dogs out rather than kennel them. Hence the "Just my opinion" but if my statement offends, I make no apologies but rather suggest you reread the later of the statement "put some serious thought into why you have dogs":-k


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I don't think any animal should live on a chain. As lynn says above, it's not something you see here much at all, I also think there could be legislation against it.

Having said that, I've done it myself in the past a long time ago, I've also experienced large numbers of dogs on tie outs when I was in Oz many moons ago, there were around a dozen I think, maybe more. They were all BC's, it was on a ranch, I didn't think anything of that as the dogs were generally always working and it was more for overnight, they also had a wooden doghouse to sleep in. So, for large groups of working dogs who spend most of their time out working, don't see too much problem with it, otherwise, I don't think there is a much sadder sight than seeing a dog living on the end of a chain. By living, I mean more than a few hours a day.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Charles Corbitt said:


> I have personally seen a lot of dogs chained to trees with no water and no food living in their own feces. Granted most of these were owned by drug dealers. But I have a personal aversion to any animal kept tied out to tree. We spend a great deal of our time and money on buying and training working dogs. Just can't understand anyone on this site even considering keeping a dog tied to a tree. The cost of a wire kennel is cheap compared to the cost of a working dog prospect puppy. If you can't afford a decent kennel to keep the number of dogs you own, you should put some serious thought into why you have dogs.
> Just my opinion, the older I get the more I seem to have.


Like anything, abuse can occur regardless of whether a dog is a house dog, a kennel dog or a tethered dog. 

Chaining in and of itself is certainly not abusive. Many sled dog owners (for example) feel there are advantages to keeping the dogs this way, so it's not a matter of not being able to afford a kennel or a run.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

We are talking about containment systems for when the dog is not being walked, worked or directly supervised. Im not interested in leaving my dog kenneled or chained for days on end. 
As mentioned earlier I think a good chain setup allows the dog more square footage then a kennel. 
Clearly there are some benefits and downsides to both systems. As have been outlined here by some members.
What Im not interested in is emotional statements that are based on perception not facts as I think there are few better ways to ruin a productive discussion. 
It should also be noted that certain countries with laws against chaining usually have other laws such as anti ecollar or prong laws so again I personally dont put much credence in their legislation as I know its coming from AR crazies not scientific perspective.
Thanks again folks keep the info coming.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Charles Corbitt said:


> Just can't understand anyone on this site even considering keeping a dog tied to a tree. .


It's funny, because I was thinking the exact same thing only from the other direction!! I expect to hear "it's not right to tie a dog out" comments on a pet site, but not on a working dog site.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Haz Othman said:


> We are talking about containment systems for when the dog is not being walked, worked or directly supervised. Im not interested in leaving my dog kenneled or chained for days on end.
> As mentioned earlier I think a good chain setup allows the dog more square footage then a kennel.
> Clearly there are some benefits and downsides to both systems. As have been outlined here by some members.
> What Im not interested in is emotional statements that are based on perception not facts as I think there are few better ways to ruin a productive discussion.
> ...


mnpio;./,m .,mjh


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

A dog in a kennel can be in his own feces and no water. I have chained and kenneled my dogs. The worst part of a chain is the buggers will wait till someone gets inside the chain and WAM. It has happened to me a couple of times. I finally had to put a kennel up for him. The next day he was out. Had to chain him again till I got a roof on it. 
Yotes wont bug your dog on a chain. They lure dogs out to a pack then kill said dog. Plus there shouldnt be so much food in dogs dish that a **** can come and eat it. The dog should have ate it all in a minute or 2. 
I have used both and continue to use both.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Like anything, abuse can occur regardless of whether a dog is a house dog, a kennel dog or a tethered dog.
> 
> Chaining in and of itself is certainly not abusive. Many sled dog owners (for example) feel there are advantages to keeping the dogs this way, so it's not a matter of not being able to afford a kennel or a run.


I agree with you here completely.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

patricia powers said:


> a dog on a chain is at the mercy of any other animal comming its way...... coyotes, wolves, bears, bobcats, skunks, *****, etc. as well as any other dog or cat that might be running loose. i don 't like the idea of having them that vulnerable. i recently saw a pic of a dog yard for sled dogs that were chained, yet they each had a kennel around them to protect them from other animals.
> pjp


I was wondering about this, it seems a legitimate concern to me, here we have cougar, coyote, bear, etc. Also other people's stray dogs. I would think it might be a good idea to have a perimeter fence if this is a concern, like Lynn mentioned she has, depending on where you live.

This has also always been my concern with a buried e-fence containment system, it keeps nothing out!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Why, actually, do we have such threads?

If someone feels his dog needs chaining - why not?

If someone feels his dog needs kennelling - why not?

If someone wants to keep his dog in the house - why not?

No one should have to ask an opinion of what is right or wrong for his or her dog. H/she should be able and intelligent enough to work it out him/herself.


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## Charles Corbitt (Oct 24, 2012)

I thought it was a good question, I learned from it that tying out is still a popular opinion for some to keep a dog or dogs. In my neck of the woods, you don't see or hear of it very often with IPO dogs or Police K9's.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

really not trying to pick on you Haz..... 

no containment should ever be judged as "best" or "worst", imo

any type of containment (cage, tie-out, E-fence, wood fence, concrete wall or whatever is based on needs of the owner and how much control they have over their dog when it's off lead 

depends on what you want to keep in or out, and how well it works probably depends a lot on how well the dog acts when it is not being contained.

this type of thread is very similar to "what's the best dog food ?"  
- what works for one may not work for another
- some dogs do good with one and not with another
- might depend on available budget
- reasons are usually anecdotal from small sample data
etc etc

what comes to my mind when i see dogs tied out or kenneled may be far different than what others think .... basically who cares, but it is always based on how the dog looks, not what type of containment is being used

call me a grinch, but "curiosity" is not always a good reason to start a thread when you know in advance the question will never be agreed on and the audience is world wide and not local

personally, i wish there were more :
........"here's me and my dog; how can you all help me ? "


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Everyone has a first dog sometime, though. Gathering opinions about how the dog will live with the owner can bring up issues a first-time (even second- or third-time) owner may never have thought of.

For example, even though I live in a small city, not at all in the wilderness, there's a mountain range and there are big redwood forests, parklands, and reserves just outside of town, and we regularly "entertain" predatory wild animals even a couple of blocks from downtown.

There's a farm town in the Salinas Valley struggling with loose dog packs.

There was a rash of poisonings a few years ago in a city in the next county down (throwing poisoned meat over fences).


There are other factors that may be pertinent to some owners and can be pointed out and then guarded against.

JMO, though ....


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

my current house dog came with an "escape artist" label :roll:
- great jumper, can climb trees etc

that part almost kept me from even trying to keep it here
- we also had a small dog but it was not a roamer and couldn't be pried off our property

- anyway, i was so paranoid i spent HUNDREDS of hours (aka months) working and proofing that aspect with all types of distractions. would even put an Ecollar on it and leave the house and walk away, knowing the dog wouldn't be able to last long b4 it bolted and tried to find me. had my wife on a cell phone give me the word so i could time the transmitter, etc
- had other dogs walked by that it would want to lunge at, etc
- would whistle recall the dog when it was behind a fence the it could easily jump as a short cut to get to me, but taught it to take the long way instead (thru the house to the front door and bark to be let out)

a few dozen other routines, and all were a pita, but all were easy and not complicated to teach.....all it took was time. 
- now i have NO containment requirements when this dog is by itself, and when we got it, it used to howl and shriek when left alone ](*,)](*,)

proofing still happens but maybe once a month, max

- imo, if it is your own dog and you don't have a huge pack of them, this can be done by anyone if they commit the time and effort, and the results are well worth it

nothing wrong with containment for safety, but i think the training aspect shouldn't be overlooked here either, and i don't think anyone has brought that up so far 

- i would also add, EVERY customer that has ever come to me with a dog that had a roaming, bolting, fence jumping, or tether chewing problem had NEVER really worked on that problem specifically.........the story was always the same : "no matter what we do, the dog can find a way to get out".

anyway, that's just my experience .... ymmv


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

If you (general you) look to the beginning of the thread you will note Im asking a question not trying to start drama or ask what people think just for the sake of it. I legitimately wondered avout the topic and there has been a lot of good input on here. If your not interested in the topic or know the answer already Im not forcing anyone to read the thread. I think the title of the thread made it clear what it was about.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i see no drama in the thread either. 
.... nor did i intend to start any


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Charles Corbitt said:


> Sorry Chris, I thought I made it obvious, "chained to trees with no water and no food living in their own feces". But, these dogs were starved for both food and attention, don't know why you focused on the food and disregarded the "no water and living in their own feces". I don't believe either of us are talking cages but for terminology
> a crate is an Airline Approved Transportation Container, a kennel is a usually a wire framed area of approximately minimum 6' by 12' with a shelter or dog house included. I have never heard of a kenneled dog dying from the kennel. I have seen and heard of several dogs dying on a chain or cable tie-out. Had no intention of insulting you or anyone that ties their dogs out rather than kennel them. Hence the "Just my opinion" but if my statement offends, I make no apologies but rather suggest you reread the later of the statement "put some serious thought into why you have dogs":-k


 
Offended at what you said? What you said was way too stupid to offend me.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Wasnt referring to your post. Someone else implied I knew this topic would cause people to argue about tie outs being inhumane. As mentioned earlier, I expect that on a pet forum not this one.


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## lynn oliver (May 30, 2010)

Why a'pet forum?' Does everyone on here have to have the same opinion on chaining a dog out? I think a lot will depend on how you view your dogs.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

No, but opinions on this forum are generally informed by experience/observations not emotions. Or thats the general expectation. There have been some on this thread, that dont like tie outs based on their experience with them. Thats valuable info because there are concrete reasons they have that opinion. There are also people with the opposite opinion based on their experience. 

On pet forums its emotional drivel bases on emotional drivel. Having an opinion is great, but you will note this thread is more about facts then how you "feel".


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

lynn oliver said:


> Why a'pet forum?' Does everyone on here have to have the same opinion on chaining a dog out? I think a lot will depend on how you view your dogs.


A pet forum is where you see a lot of knee jerk reactions to things like (not) altering("oh you're adding to the pet explosion if you don't spay/neuter"), tethering, ecollars, etc., opinions not based on any firsthand personal experience but on popular public opinion. 

When you say "a lot will depend on how you view your dogs" are you talking about people who anthropomorphize their dogs and think that since it would be cruel to chain a human, it must be cruel to chain a dog?


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

i have kept pitbulls and dutch shepherds on tether runs and in 10x10 and 10x20 & 20x20 magnum kennels for many years, and i by far prefer the tether runs. both breeds are very strong, determined dogs, that can be hard keepers, and i've had dogs escape from both setups on rare occasions - and always due to human error. 

the tether runs allow for more space, and natural footing, even for determined diggers or jumpers. (i hate the idea of keeping dogs on concrete all of the time) using trees at either end of the tether allows for constant natural shade on parts of the runs, and sunshine when they want it. 
i've had dogs break teeth and toes trying to bite or jump or climb their way out of kennels, but i have never had a dog injured on their tether run. when tethered, the dogs also do not have the frustration of a physical barrier between them and the rest of the world all of the time. 

to keep dogs outdoors correctly, you need proper equipment, whether you're tethering them or kenneling them. to provide proper tethering equipment is far less expensive than to purchase kennels that will stand up to big hard-to-keep dogs. i spent about $150 setting up an 80' x 14' (1120 sq ft) tether run on a pulley system for lo between two trees where he lived for 2 years with never a single incident. he was kenneled for a very short time in a 10'x10', and he was the one to break his toe jumping at the kennel door. i spent over $1,000 on a 20x20 (400 sq ft) magnum kennel for him when we lived briefly in a rental property on a 1/2 acre w/no big trees after moving to virginia. 
i dislike the idea of dogs being confined to small spaces on unnatural surfaces, and a tether run is a safe, economical, effective way to avoid both of those problems. a 5'x10' kennel, which many people consider a perfectly humane way to keep a big dog is only 50 sq feet. when you factor in the dog house and water bucket for a large dog, that doesn't leave much space for them in their socially accepted kennel.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I don't think anyone said anything stupid on this thread. I think this thread has been an especially valuable thread, obviously tethering is not well understood by a lot of people, so maybe this thread has allowed people to see that tethering is not only a viable alternative to the traditional kennel/yard, in some cases it's preferable.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i have noticed from the "other side of the fence", that dogs tethered on a slip ring or similar assembly that they can run along, have seemed to be less vocal and overall better mannered than the ones tied out to a post. seen both types of set ups. the high line was always wire, but the lead lines were not always wire. (a lotta dogs are secured on lines here)

the most vocal, or fence fighters, were the ones running loose behind a fence or gate.

with that said, i haven't seen any mals or DS's on this rig 
(one boxer, one gsd, and the rest were Ja breeds like shiba's, kai's, and akitas)

...but i couldn't tell if it was the dog, the owner, or the rig responsible, since i rarely met the owners or the dogs


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I have kept quite a few dogs on the chain, all bullbreeds or presa canario. never had an incident. use strong welded tow or logging chains..

if I put the adult on a chain she is biting anyone that comes close enough. even me if I aint careful... (early bite and targeting work was done on a tie out)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> I would imagine the other animals coming around dogs to be pretty rare as well?


I dont know....I was gonna include bears and the like but we do have a big sized group of coyotes here...one or two no biggie....12-15-20 a big problem..

my dogs are kenneled outside currently...a feral cat likes to agitate them, sits about 5 feet away from the kennels sometimes...got the .22 ready...


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> I dont know....I was gonna include bears and the like but we do have a big sized group of coyotes here...one or two no biggie....12-15-20 a big problem..
> 
> my dogs are kenneled outside currently...a feral cat likes to agitate them, sits about 5 feet away from the kennels sometimes...got the .22 ready...


Maybe, if your lucky, the feral SOB will try again before Xmas? That way you can serve it for Xmas Dinner :lol: Take of the head and it looks like a rabbit I heard say... 8-[


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Take of the head and it looks like a rabbit I heard say... 8-[


And probably tastes like chicken....


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

People use chains on cranes to pick up scrap metal and crushed cars. The chains do not break...its the strength of the steel one needs to be concerned with rather then how thick the chain is. Same with kennels... emphasis should be on strength of kennel parts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvyL5s6hLjk

Dogs can get into trouble inside the house too....


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

I used to rent a rural property, and the owner kept suffolk sheep and chickens. His daughter purchased a standard american eskimo dog as a pet. Dog had behavior issues, she gives it to the dad, he puts it on a 30 foot cable with a dog house at one end by the entrance to the barn, to scare the coyotes away from his stock. 
Dog never came off the cable, really wanted to bite / hurt you. Barked like a maniac(I know an American Eskimo right?) Dog was there for years, he never lost anything to coyotes in the time I was living there nor was the dog ever injured. I know there were coyotes all around the area, hunters even took one on the property.

So I think it depends on the dog when it comes to the coyotes.

Ofcourse we dont have bears were I live.

I am leaning towards kennels just because I think it works better for the home Im moving too.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ha, yep they will work, glad we can help


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