# Proper Housing For A Working Dog?



## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Hello All.

Just wondering how some of you house your dogs, be it a kennel, cable run, or freely roaming among you and family in the house? 

What made you decide on your current methods?

The last dogs I owned were not working dogs, so after crate training they were allowed anywhere in the house...except the couch! I hate a dog in my domain.  

Thanks,
Andy.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

My GSD was crated at night till 6 months old, and now he's 2 and has been out of the crate when I leave the house for the last month or so. But he's a calm relaxed dog most of the time, sometimes he gets mischevious though, I try and keep anything food related out of reach and he's confined to one room not the entire house unless I'm home. When I'm home he's never in the crate except feeding time.

My dutchie pup, well, she'll probably be a crate dog for the rest of her life LOL! Nah, I don't know what she'll be like as she matures, but as a pup she's in the crate most of the time except for play/training/potty times. Both dogs sleep in the bedroom at night, the GSD wherever he wants, the pup in a crate. During the day I sometimes stick her in an exercise pen so she as some more roaming freedom without getting into everything. She's actually pretty good at leaving stuff alone that isn't hers to touch, she's very focused on whatever toy I let her play with at playtime, she usually carries it over to the bean bag n lays down to chew it.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My hunting terriers have always been house dogs. depending on the individual personality, some have been crated at night, some not. My ten yr old JRT is ALWAYS crated at night. He's a pain in the a$$ and will sneak down in the basement at night and piss all over everything. My 13 yr old Border Terrier stays in the kitchen behind gates. She would have no problems being out in the house except for her comfort drive  . I'd probably have to kill her to keep her off of the couch at night. :lol: 
My GSD became an outside dog after the first 6 months. I started him inside for house training and socialization. I built a nice kennel along the garage, with a insulated dog house inside the garage, through a dog door in his run. BUT! He has fee roam of the yard because of the neighborhood I live in. I want "da boys in da hood" to know he has access to every part of my yard. 
His kennel and run is being occupied by a Presa pup I'm working with at this time.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

HAHA! I'm suddenly reminded of how I became aquainted with crate training in the first place. Let me see if I can tally the wreckage from my last dog, a rescued pit bulldog bitch:

1 completely devoured CD.

2 Shredded DVD's(including A Charlie Brown Chirstmas...I never forgave her for that!)

1 dog bed turned into mulch spread throughout my living room.

4 unrecognizable pillows.

1 half-eaten door.

1 futon turned into post-modern art.

All of this for the $50 or so adoption fee from the humane society. lol

Seriously though, I had never before owned a dog with any kind of behavioral issues so I was completely naive about crate training. My g/f was kind enough to show me the error of my ways and wound up saving me lots of money. :lol:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

The living arrangements of our working dogs is flexible. The only thing I don't allow is being chained, cable runs etc. We build a kennel at each persons residence. Even with that, some handlers elect to keep thier dogs in the house. I don't have a problem with that as long as the proficiency of the dog does not decrease. Sometimes, living in the house causes dogs to get a bit on the "fluffy" side. So of course we watch for that and other signs of "la dolce vita" that may affect the dogs willingness to perform under less comfortable conditions.

DFrost


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## Mike Reagan (Jul 19, 2006)

Andy Andrews said:


> Hello All.
> 
> Just wondering how some of you house your dogs, be it a kennel, cable run, or freely roaming among you and family in the house?
> 
> ...


I would suggest that you got to www.Leerburg.com and get Ed Frawleys DVD " How to Raise a working Puppy " EXCELLENT video have raised 2 working dogs off this DVD well worth the 30 bucks !!!


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Both my GSD stay outside in a fenced yard. At night they both come in the garage in crates. The female's crate is locked but my male, Bentley, roams the garage and outside in the back yard.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Jak WOULD be inside the house, but I have cats and he'd like to have them too. He stays in his kennel outside next to the garage most of the time.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

My GSD stays in a fenced yard. She has a 10x10 kennel with a covered roof and a doghouse for if I ever want to confine her. For example, a few hours before training I like to put her in there so she will have a little built up energy for her bite work. At night she has full range of the yard so she can do her job. During the day if I am home and it is brutally hot I will bring her in the house for a short while, but not enough to have her unconditioned to the weather.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:I would suggest that you got to www.Leerburg.com and get Ed Frawleys DVD " How to Raise a working Puppy " EXCELLENT video have raised 2 working dogs off this DVD well worth the 30 bucks !!!

I saw about 1 1/2 minutes of Emily's copy of this, then fell asleep. *edited*


Any questions on how to raise a working dog should be addressed to Woody. He will let you know whats up.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Jeff, I love the way you said that and I agree.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

http://www.berger-hollandais.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10

This is pretty cool. After the crate period, it may come in handy.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Jeff, I love the way you said that and I agree.


Kind of abrupt to just see it laid out there like that, Jerry. ;-)


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

My three are all house dogs. However, all three are crate trained and Buck adores his and takes naps and sleeps in there all the time. I don't need to shut the doors anymore. Not that I could with Zoso (short of getting a really expensive aluminum one) because he's broken down the doors of 3 plastic crates and 1 wire one. :roll: During the day when we're off at work, they share the basement with the ferret where their crates are but at night, they are allowed to sleep either in the basement, kitchen, or living room so Zoso and Strider can alert us to anything odd (Buck, despite his rather ferocious appearance, would rather run and hide in his crate than attack an intruder). They are not allowed into the hallway that goes to the office, the master bedroom, etc. They are not allowed on the couch either. Our landlord told us he wouldn't mind if we put up a small kennel under the deck, but eh...I prefer to have them as house dogs so they don't become nuisance barkers and so they can guard what is inside the house, not guard the yard. Plus they would probably have barking contests with the poor lab mix who lives outside the house behind us who is tied out all day long in the 100 degree heat.


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## Mike Reagan (Jul 19, 2006)

I saw about 1 1/2 minutes of Emily's copy of this, then fell asleep. *edited* 


Too bad Jeff you fell asleep, if you were awake you could have learned something from this DVD.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

all kenneled.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Welll, my dogs are with me when I am in the house but not babied and I do keep it not too air conditioned or heated and they are in good condition .....and I do spend individual time working with each of them.

I would prefer outside kenneled while at work, but I don't trust the neighbor kids.

They sleep in the bedroom - each does have *their spot* on the floor, but sometimes they sleep in their crates.

Either Grim or Toby is crated while I am at work. I don't trust Toby alone with Grim. I could trust Grim with any dog. Toby knows better than to pull any dominance stuff when I am around. Nobody has any *issues* with Cyra, the female.

What would be gained by not having them with me during the part of the day when not at work?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:Too bad Jeff you fell asleep, if you were awake you could have learned something from this DVD. 

I saw the tape. If you need a tape like this, you need to get into gardening 'cause your too dumb to do anything with a dog anyway.

Nothing against Ed, theres a sucker born every minute. Why not take their money?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

A lot of people I know disagree with you on that, Jeff. HOWEVER, the thread is not about Ed's videos; it's about housing for a working dog.


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## Mike Reagan (Jul 19, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> A lot of people I know disagree with you on that, Jeff. HOWEVER, the thread is not about Ed's videos; it's about housing for a working dog.


Yes Jeff just because someone has opinion other than yours it is okay take a pill and relax calling someone Dumb you don't even know just show your intelligence level. So stop with all the name calling to put someone down just to boost your own little Ego


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

HOW DARE YOU! My ego is quite large, and hard earned.  

If I was calling YOU dumb, it would look like this, MIKE YOU ARE DUMB. Saying that you are too dumb and should take up gardening, is more of a reflection of what I thought of the tape.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> HOW DARE YOU! My ego is quite large.....


I almost made that comment myself......... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Mike Reagan (Jul 19, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> HOW DARE YOU! My ego is quite large, and hard earned.
> 
> If I was calling YOU dumb, it would look like this, MIKE YOU ARE DUMB. Saying that you are too dumb and should take up gardening, is more of a reflection of what I thought of the tape.


Your Ego could very well be large by your perception and hard earned calling me a sucker meant what ? Your other reflection ? I feel the tape has some good info for everyone even with ones with BIG EGOS I have my opinion and I am entitled to it, just like you have yours after all this is a dog forum, but the name calling stuff you have done all over this forum must stop that is all I am saying on this subject.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So your sensitive. I won't call you any more names.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I hate that this got petty

Seriously what are the downsides of having the dog in the house as opposed to kenneled?

Not talking pampered pets who can't stand the heat, but what other pros and cons?

Thought it was a good topic.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Some in kennels, some on stake outs - (all dogs have access to large free-run areas(fenced) when I am around to supervise-I work at home, so that is most of the time.)-and a couple of total house dogs. I think what you do with the dog and training matters more than the method of containment. I find what I do works well in rural area with a large property, but might be very different for different situations(city, suburban).

I have one dog in particular that is a fantastic dog work-wise but the thought of him in my house sends shiver up my spine. Great dog, but just not one of those that is cut out to be house material....


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I'll ask this from the perspective of a behaviorist, as I have repeatedly dealt with people who leave their dog in the backyard and/or a kennel/run for most or all of the day. This tends to create a lot of behavior problems like nuisance barking, fence pacing, digging and that sort of thing. If you have a working dog you work or train just about every day, you are obviously providing it with more mental stimulation than the average folks who wonder why their furry lawn ornament is howling, charging at everything on the fence line, and creatively re-landscaping your lawn. I try to tell clients and people I talk to that the backyard is neither a babysitter nor a home gym for the dog. Having a young Malinois inside is not always easy (we buy the 6 lbs jars of peanut butter from Sam's Club to keep frozen Kongs on hand), but I could just see mine getting into all sorts of mischief in an outdoor run, kennel, or the backyard if he was outside all or most of the time. 

Anyone want to comment further in detail about why you keep your dog(s) kenneled outside versus inside?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

I keep mine inside because I want her well-socialized and part of the family. I know there is a trade-off there in her conditioning and it's been a PITA keeping her in the kitchen with a 3 yo and a 18mo running back and forth. She crates a lot during the day but it's always in line-of-sight of the family. I always see it as a great socialization, in my uninformed opinion.

Mostly she's inside because I think dogs are cool and fascinating to watch. I understand why more serious working applications would require an outside permanent place for dogs but I never understood (unless you had multiple dogs) why you'd want a 80 mph Belgian Mal that was a lights-out sports dog that could never be around people or edibles. Where's the fun in that? I'll take the limitations of a GSD and the limitations I put on a dog by making it a house dog but the trade-offs are just too much fun. My dog only goes out to go to the bathroom and train and everything else that involves us. The rest of the time, she's watching us and content to hang out.

Al Curbow is right, dogs make life nice. 

I like the way she's learned to be excited yet discriminate around the kids...I like that my kid can accidentally get ahold of one of my jute tugs and Annie will ignore them. I like that my kids can really test her by walking up to her with a ball...which she'll place in her mouth and they all enjoy. And interaction with animals of all kinds is great for kids on a lot of levels. My kids love animals and nature, I like surrounding them with that, because again...just fascinating stuff relative to all the BS in the corporate world I'm in now. Seeing that animal and my kids grow up together is just plain neat.

She sleeps in our master bedroom--again, free socialization time--in a crate for now because she'd otherwise not shut off.

But at the end of the day, I would get no pleasure out of any kind of dog that wasn't able to hang out after all the other stuff. [/end of Oehlsen-provoking essay]


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I just like chaos in my house...


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I don't know Maren, in the bloody heat we are going thru now, it is a darn site more comfortable in the dogyard than in the house. Laying in the shade under the trees looks pretty good right now......they got a cool "pool", play structures(constructed so they can dig under them specifically),shade, a breeze, chums to socialize with, they can watch birds, chase bugs, sniff, roll in the grass or eat it and dig all the holes they like(which I don't consider a behavior problem). They can watch me work outside in the garden or yard or bush, watch the cows across the road and see people coming or going. In the house is well - boring. Even the house dogs would rather spend the day outside - I spend most of my day outside and it is even more natural for a dog to do so. Don't get me wrong, I always have at least one or two or more under foot in the house or workshop and yes, I got crates in the house, too. But I do resent the tree-hugger stuff you see on a lot of dog sites - outdoor dogs are "abused and neglected" and "unsocialized" blah blah blah. I spend more time with my neglected abused and unsocialized dogs in the dogyard than most people spend with their housepets. I don't consider the yard to be a "babysitter" - but I have done my best to make it like a home gym, a home and a comfortable place to be. Even when the dogs are confined to thier kennels they still have canine company, tree shade, a big water bucket and more freedom than a crate in the house.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

QUOTE MAREN:_"Anyone want to comment further in detail about why you keep your dog(s) kenneled outside versus inside_" END QUOTE

My dogs are kenneled separately in the garage (which is attached to the house and heated in the winter to prevent water from freezing) and spend a lot of their time outside during the day in the fenced "dogyard." I have 3 reasons why they are not in the house. 1. They are SAR dogs and must be acclimated to the current temps. This is by far the most important reason. 2. I have a 1 year old baby and, while generally very social, I don't believe my working dogs should be allowed loose near the baby. 3. I have five dogs and the amount of dirt and hair they produce is totally amazing. Additionally, their destructive potential (especially when loose all together) far exceeds my tolerance in the house.

To each his/her own, I guess!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I do know of dogs that need to be kept out on a chain. They break thier teeth off if in a kennel. This is barrier frustration taken to the extreme. However, they are worked and chaining is not that horrible.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I totally understand, Lynn, but the average dog owner (I always shudder when I think of that) who lives in the city or suburbs is completely mesmerized when I tell them that the reason their dog howls, digs up the flower bed, jumps the fence, etc etc is because the dog is bored and under exercised. These are the people who consider taking their dog on one 20 minute walk around the neighborhood once or twice a week really going all out to exercise their dog. :roll: Man, I feel guilty this week having only taken my dogs to the trails for a hike only once this week because I'm moving into my fiance's place. We're also skipping Schutzhund two weekends in a row for that and becaue I'm going out of town for a research conference. Bad Maren! Anyways, so yeah, in that case, typical dog owners with outdoor only dogs are neglected. I see it all the time. I don't see the point of having a pet dog if you're just going to shove it in the backyard and just expect it to entertain itself. 

Konnie, having to make my old duplex **** and span for moving out this week, I understand what you mean by the dirt and the fur.   I've got 3 dogs plus any fosters I have at the time (and 2 rabbits, a ferret, 2 rats, a mouse, and a snake, so yeah...). My husky/Rott mix sure seems to drag a lot in the summer (he's got the build of a Rott but the fur of a husky), but my Mal seems to be fine no matter the weather be it 100F or 20F as long as he's got plenty of water in the summer. Another reason I prefer Mals to GSDs is they seem to have a bit more heat tolerance and don't shed as much while being fine in the cold. Anyone with a Mal or Dutchie agree or disagree?

Jeff, I suspect my husky/Rott mix was a chain link fence chewer before I got him. His canines and his far back molars look like someone took a file to them and I know he goes nuts behind a fence. Silent as the grave in the house, but barks this deep booming bark if he's in a fence at anything and everything. Chaining is pretty horrible if the dog never comes off the chain and some little kid wanders in the yard... :x


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## Mike Reagan (Jul 19, 2006)

they are worked and chaining is not that horrible.[/quote]


LMAO Now that is funny !!!!!!! :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:Chaining is pretty horrible if the dog never comes off the chain and some little kid wanders in the yard... 

I am definately not talking about that. I have seen dogs rip their teeth off on chain link fence. I have seen them break them off on the doors of their crates. When they are on a chain, they are not confined, and do not display these crazy behaviors.

Leaving a dog on a chain in the backyard without work is a little nutty. I have done this with a few dogs. They were all time escape artists, little houdinis in fur coats. However, when I was home, they were little angels so they were not chained. THis was the only way to keep them at home when I was gone. They got out of everything, including the house. Not good.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

> Anyone want to comment further in detail about why you keep your dog(s) kenneled outside versus inside?


Inside, he'd have to be cooped up in a crate. Outside he can have room to play with one of the toys I allow him to have in his kennel, stretch out in the sun in the mornings, watch the birds at my 10 bird feeders, watch the neighborhood kids play, etc. The main reason is if he's crated all day, he's like a rubber band that's been wound too tight and then suddenly let go when I let him out and, well, if I'd wanted something that hyper I'd of gotten a Mal! :lol: 

Inside is where my 2 cats live. I would like to keep it that way. :? He just gets way too stimulated by them, and as a result, they get super stressed out if he's in the house. If he would just chill out around them, they'd be fine. I'm still debating getting some tranq's from the vet for both cats and dog to try to get them to where they will be okay with each other so I can start having him in the house more, though. I just can't bring myself to get rid of my "Spooky kitty" and "Wascally butt"


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

..our resolution was to kick the cats out....

but I do have to, at a minimum, spend 45 minutes to an hour a day running my dogs to keep them liveable.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Honestly... I find my dutchie pup alot easier to live with than my nice sweet GSD at the same age... he was a lil terror, he'd get into everything he wasn't allowed to have, he's destroyed probably $1000 in stuff, he'd play keep away if I let him out off leash... Lÿka always sticks close, she doesn't like people so she never runs up to greet strangers, she is so fixated on her toy that she doesn't get into anything else... oh sure she does laps around the house barking n growling, n can get pretty uncontrollable at times, to the point where she scares the hell outta people who watch me handle her :lol: But the hyperness doesn't seem to make a difference with her living in the house, I don't care if she runs laps around the house all day or barks n growls or jumps up on me or any of that stuff, I love the chaos and livelihood! I would miss out on all this entertainment if my dogs lived in an outdoor kennel :lol: If she gets too psycho I put her in her crate n it's Cujo's time to play. I alternate the dogs constantly all day long. I have nothing against people who kennel their dogs outside, I'd like to build a kennel when I move to my new house so that the dogs don't have to be stuck in a crate when I'm out, but I don't see any downside to having a house dog... now, this is just me, single, no kids... for now anyway. I took Lÿka to my friends house a week ago n she was getting soooo worked up n crazy because she wanted to play with their great dane and wasn't allowed to, that I wouldn't let my friends kids pet her because it was a guaranteed dog bite right there, she was in a PISSY mood, so she went to her crate... I wouldn't trust her for a second around kids unsupervised, and I doubt I ever will... As for Cujo, I don't think he'd ever be a problem with kids, but I wouldn't leave kids unsupervised with HIM


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

I have my Dutch Shepherd in the house. He sleeps inside and lives inside. I have a very large house with a very large fenced in back yard, where he can go when he wants...but dogs are social, so he prefers to be where the people are.

I have never had more than one dog in my home. Other dogs I have had simultaneously have lived kenneled at a different place. I always choose the toughest, most active pup for my home, and I stick with him for the life of the dog. I have only had males in the house.

My family started out with working GSD since before I was born (42 yrs ago), and my father taught me how to control dogs. I carried a tennis racket to hit the dogs when they were too forward with me. When I was growing up, our dogs frequently bit people, and my dad was always paying for the medical bills. None of those dogs were easy, but since we raised them as pups, social order was always kept clear.

I moved to Malinois about 25 years ago. My first Malinois was very antisocial...yet he "self inhibited" properly in the house. His aggression threshold was very low, regardless of how much socialization. The second one was tolerant, as is the current DS. All have been extremely energetic and willing.

For me the key has been using a carpet mill and spring pole when they are pups, and moving to a slat mill and spring pole as adults. 30 minutes a day of straight forward exercise, plus training or duty. Also, a bunch of chewing. This way the dogs have always been fit, yet reasonably easy in the house. I also take my family plus the dog for bike rides using a "Springer", or when we go canoeing or horseback riding.

I have a wire crate in the living room where the dog spends a bunch of time as a pup...up to two years old more or less, and a kennel outside where I put the dog up when I entertain guests.

I used my previous two Malinois to track and aprehend guerrillas, and their home lifestyle never interfered. I found the opposite was actually true: the more exposure to nuance in the house, the better "communication" with the dog EVERYWHERE.

Dogs thrive in a pack environment, under strict discipline and order...my pup, for example, enjoys playing with the kids while they jump up and down on a trampoline, or sliding down a 40 meter slide in our back yard, or just lying down on top of them to be petted. This type of relationship has made the dog very reactive when relatives roughhouse with my kids. So my vote is...in the house, with the family...

I can't imagine...or remember...the last time I was in my home and it was quiet...so that's the drawback. My dog is very vocal, and he rarely lies down for long...but then again, my children are the same way. I love the activity.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am definately not talking about that. I have seen dogs rip their teeth off on chain link fence. I have seen them break them off on the doors of their crates. When they are on a chain, they are not confined, and do not display these crazy behaviors.



I agree. Coming from the pit bulldog world, I'm a firm believer in the benefits of tying out dogs and using cable runs, especially if you've got a lot of dogs. So long as their basic needs are met(food/water/Work) they are perfectly happy and, in my opinion, far SAFER than in a kennel. I've known dogs to chew through chain link fencing as a means of escape or to get at another dog. 

Still, I prefer to keep my dogs with me in the house. They're my buds every bit as much as they are protectors. 


Andy.


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