# Dutch Shepherd behaviour question



## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a 1yo female DS that I am training for HRD detection. I am new to this breed, but have been a SAR dog handler for 18 years, and have experience with many other breeds. This dog spooks at the weirdest objects; an old stump, a garbage can at the end of someones driveway, a property line pipe, just about anything. She will sometimes bark at it, but more often not, just gets low and shaky and cautiously approaches the object, and then quickly gets over it and moves on. She has been socialized and out and about as much as all of my previous dogs, maybe more, so it's not because she's sequestered at home. Is this normal for this breed? :-k


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

How long have you had this dog? Where did she come from? If you had her since she was a pup, was she always this way? 

"Spooky" is not a desirable/normal temperament for the breed.


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## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

She was shipped to me from Oklahoma (Heartland Malinois & Dutch Shepherds) when she was 8wks old. In the first couple days I would occasionally find her hiding behind the couch cushions or behind the washing machine, but I had never had a dog shipped to me, and my other dog wasn't mean, but wasn't friendly, so I chalked it up to adjustment to such a big change in her life. The breeder said she was confident when he sent her to me,that all of the pups were confident and stable. She is not confident in new situations at new places immediately, she used to try to jump into my pockets for the first few minutes at a new place, and then would settle in and be fine. That has almost completely stopped but she still takes a minute or two to relax in a new situation. The reactivity to objects started maybe after her first heat cycle, at about 11 months. If her recovery wasn't almost immediate I'd be much more concerned, but I still don't like that initial reaction.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Michele Fleury said:


> She was shipped to me from Oklahoma (Heartland Malinois & Dutch Shepherds) when she was 8wks old. In the first couple days I would occasionally find her hiding behind the couch cushions or behind the washing machine, but I had never had a dog shipped to me, and my other dog wasn't mean, but wasn't friendly, so I chalked it up to adjustment to such a big change in her life. The breeder said she was confident when he sent her to me,that all of the pups were confident and stable. She is not confident in new situations at new places immediately, she used to try to jump into my pockets for the first few minutes at a new place, and then would settle in and be fine. That has almost completely stopped but she still takes a minute or two to relax in a new situation. The reactivity to objects started maybe after her first heat cycle, at about 11 months. If her recovery wasn't almost immediate I'd be much more concerned, but I still don't like that initial reaction.



Hi Michele,

I rescued a female Dutch Shepherd at about 4 months old old (part of a litter of five) A bunch (30+) of Mals, Dutch Shepherds and GSD's were abandoned in Canon City, CO.
Devona was totally unsocialized, submissive urination if you looked at her, fear biter when stressed. I worked with her for nearly four years but she was never what I called a
stable dog. She was from HeartLand. I figured a lot of the
problem was lack of puppy socialization, but there was
probably a genetic component as well. It sure doesn't sound like she is going to do the type work that you want.


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## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

interesting, glad i didnt get a pup from them when i was looking at the time..just thought i would add that


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## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hi Michele,
> 
> I rescued a female Dutch Shepherd at about 4 months old old (part of a litter of five) A bunch (30+) of Mals, Dutch Shepherds and GSD's were abandoned in Canon City, CO.
> Devona was totally unsocialized, submissive urination if you looked at her, fear biter when stressed. I worked with her for nearly four years but she was never what I called a
> ...


Yes, early socialization may have helped but I do agree there is a genetic piece here. I think she will do the work, she's doing very well in her training so far. The behaviors are annoying, but so far they do not interfere with her working. I have exposed her to as many different situations as possible, knowing that she could go either way with this, and she adjusts quickly and has shown much improvement thus far. Is she the dog I wanted and thought I was getting, no. But I don't think this is a fatal flaw as far as her working career. Time will tell.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> A bunch (30+) of Mals, Dutch Shepherds and GSD's were abandoned in Canon City, CO.


I remember THAT rescue effort! Whew, what a mess!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

All the heartland stuff I have seen should be in a dumpster.


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Michele Fleury said:


> I have a 1yo female DS that I am training for HRD detection. I am new to this breed, but have been a SAR dog handler for 18 years, and have experience with many other breeds. This dog spooks at the weirdest objects; an old stump, a garbage can at the end of someones driveway, a property line pipe, just about anything. She will sometimes bark at it, but more often not, just gets low and shaky and cautiously approaches the object, and then quickly gets over it and moves on. She has been socialized and out and about as much as all of my previous dogs, maybe more, so it's not because she's sequestered at home. Is this normal for this breed? :-k


I hate to talk crap about those guys, but I'm not confident in the litters they are putting out.

I talked to them about a Dutchie puppy two years ago, and they did not seem to know much about .....
Well I will stop there before I go too far. 

Maybe Mike Suttle can give some more info on this topic, all I hear is good things about his dutchie litters.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Sadly, it is not completely uncommon but NO it is not desirable, normal behavior for a good Dutch Shepherd.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristina Senter said:


> I remember THAT rescue effort! Whew, what a mess!


Hi Kristina, 


I found out the contact info for the guy that abandoned all the dogs. He was partnered with Heartland for awhile. He actually
wanted to breed to the female I had rescued???


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> I hate to talk crap about those guys, but I'm not confident in the litters they are putting out.
> 
> I talked to them about a Dutchie puppy two years ago, and they did not seem to know much about .....
> Well I will stop there before I go too far.
> ...


 I will comment on the dog described here, but will not comment on the kennel from which it came.
The behavior of the dog described is typical of a dog that was not properly exposed to life as a baby puppy. Now many dogs with very good genetic nerves will still be uneffected by the type of things that is worrying this dog, but early socialization and proper exposure would have likely prevented this sort of behavior. At this point in the dogs life, nothing you can do will ever make it completely go away.
Thin nerves can exist in every breed of dog from every bloodline. I have seen puppies with thin nerves out of Arko, Endor, Rudie, Rudie II, Barry II, Jari, Tommy, Wibo, Carlos, Ringo, Dingo, Duco.....the list goes on and on. But The majority of puppies from these dogs produce very good nerves over many different lines of females. 
I would not judge the bloodlines, or the breeder based on the nerves of one dog. But if you see a pattern then you can make your descision about those lines or that breeder. In this case it sounds like their may be a pattern.
To answer the OP's basic question......NO, this is not typical of a KNPV line Dutch Shepherd (although it is pretty common for an FCI Dutchie to act this way)


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## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks for the info everyone. I'll keep working with her and we'll see how she does. Nothing like a management case to test ones training skills #-o


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