# can't stop thinking about worth of a dog



## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

First off, I really hate dogs which can't serve a purpose. I do realize even if there is a working class dog it sometimes is placed with a family(wife, husband, kids, etc). I seem fixated on getting a dog which is large, but keep having thoughts about actual training for protective(not personal) purposes. I kept thinking of this even when I was considering a dog when I moved up here in Alaska. Of course kick me dogs are worthless, I find no purpose in a "tricky woo". if I were to get a saint, then the possibilities of the worth are lower because of current technology and current living conditions of people.

What do others think on this. I like my big dogs and such, and know the giant breeds often have health issues. Is a large dog worth it if I'm wanting to possibly be a proactive trainer? Are there breeds which are suitable for both policing and family style living conditions?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

The giants just flat out don't live long enough. They also lack a little in the agility department. Sorry for being so dense, but I didn't quite understand why you want a giant breed. Could you explain again?
Thanks!


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> The giants just flat out don't live long enough. They also lack a little in the agility department. Sorry for being so dense, but I didn't quite understand why you want a giant breed. Could you explain again?
> Thanks!


No, the question is very valid. I know giant breeds often have health problems. Currently I've a 71lb malamute. She is cute and everything, does what I want. They're a hardy breed, but there feels like there is something missing. I like her, she is great. She runs too much for me for starters. I thought my knee would just do fine. My knee hasn't been the best lately from all the running. I like to exercise and such, but well.. nobody is perfect. There are other reasons. I think my issue is psychological. Giant dogs give me a sense of nostalgia and make me remember how I used to be when I was smaller around large dogs, or what I considered a 60lb GSD as a giant animal.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Yeah, a GSD


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

*gasp* I have the perfect solution! A SHILOH SHEPHERD!






:lol: :lol: :lol: Buhahaha...actually, that's apparently the exact same reason the lady who started that breed. Actually, as I've said before on the board, I fostered a really neat looking GSD/Great Pyrenees mix a while back. 11 months old and already 100 lbs. We re-named him Simba before he was adopted out. Really described him as he looked like a big fluffy lion.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

If you like large, you can find GSD's that size if you really want. I just sold an 11 month old a month ago who was 97lbs, lean and fit. He was from "DDR" lines, and I kept his sister who isn't oversize. Both have perfect indoor behavior and gentle around small children or animals, and certainly suitable for work, good civil drive, strong and quick. Most people would agree I think, that size like that is not necessarily advantageous in protection.


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Dargo Von Den Thurlinger Kronjulwen was a DDR stud.He was around 120 and had great hips up through old age.If that aint big enough for ya I dont know what to tell ya.Thats a BIG dog.He titled and was a great dog from what I understand.
Even finding a good GSD of Dargo's size without hip or other health issues is a daunting task.A GSD from the right lines and from the right dogs is by far the best answer for what you want.
I worked a 95 pound PSD Mal once in a bitesuit and holy $%&* Im glad he wasnt a pound bigger.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I have yet to see a large GSD who has enough strength to lift his big ass off the ground to do anything that requires agility with any amount of grace or efficiency :lol: You say that your current dog runs too much and knee problems, well a high energy working dog needs to run alot, run run run run run, thats all my dogs do. My advice: Figure out what you are trying to achieve before picking what dog you want. If it's protection (you state not personal.... so what kinda protection are you talking about? property? or are you wanting to sell to police? which would be a whole different and unlikely ball game). If you want to train for sport, pick a sport then pick a dog who can do the sport. I really can't tell from any of your posts what you want out of a dog other than big and purposeful.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Daryl Ehret said:


> If you like large, you can find GSD's that size if you really want. I just sold an 11 month old a month ago who was 97lbs, lean and fit. He was from "DDR" lines, and I kept his sister who isn't oversize. Both have perfect indoor behavior and gentle around small children or animals, and certainly suitable for work, good civil drive, strong and quick. Most people would agree I think, that size like that is not necessarily advantageous in protection.


  omg, I didn't even know GSDs grew that big! I've been around animals for years, omg!


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

My GSD is pretty big, not heavy, but a few inches taller than the standard, and he sleeps in the couch all day. Although outside he can drag you to the ground if you let him.  He's also very agile, not like a Malinois, but he can go anywhere a dog can.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> Dargo Von Den Thurlinger Kronjulwen was a DDR stud.He was around 120 and had great hips up through old age.If that aint big enough for ya I dont know what to tell ya.Thats a BIG dog.He titled and was a great dog from what I understand.
> Even finding a good GSD of Dargo's size without hip or other health issues is a daunting task.A GSD from the right lines and from the right dogs is by far the best answer for what you want.
> I worked a 95 pound PSD Mal once in a bitesuit and holy $%&* Im glad he wasnt a pound bigger.


You've done bitework with a mal?  The "giant" malamutes(mostly for fad now) can get up to 150~


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm agreeing with Mike...I'm still not sure what you want exactly, though you've told us. You want a large to giant dog of reasonable intelligence and trainability, ability to do carting, and on the protective side, but you don't really want to do sport or personal protection (just generic bitework? I am unclear, sorry)? Heck, a nice mixed breed dog might do you nice. I'd offer up something like my husky/Rott mix, but he's a mere 65 lbs, though he looks about 80. He's visually very deterring (think black and tan and blocky head like a Rottweiler with a husky's white belly, ice blue eyes, and a husky's coat and tail) and his basic obedience is fine. You say there is just something missing with your Malamute. Pin point what that is and really come to the conclusion that that's what you want along with how much effort you really want to spend to work towards that, and I think you might have it.

PS: Round here, Mals usually mean Malinois.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I have yet to see a large GSD who has enough strength to lift his big ass off the ground to do anything that requires agility with any amount of grace or efficiency :lol: You say that your current dog runs too much and knee problems, well a high energy working dog needs to run alot, run run run run run, thats all my dogs do. My advice: Figure out what you are trying to achieve before picking what dog you want. If it's protection (you state not personal.... so what kinda protection are you talking about? property? or are you wanting to sell to police? which would be a whole different and unlikely ball game). If you want to train for sport, pick a sport then pick a dog who can do the sport. I really can't tell from any of your posts what you want out of a dog other than big and purposeful.


I like commencing in activities with animals. I love to initiate in playing, training, and other working activities. 

protective
I know what I'm wanting is quite confusing. If I received a dog which had a protective(non-alert, pro-attack) personality, the dog would not be bred for residential people. Residents who think they need a protective dog don't need a dog, they need a gun. Unless the protection is family oriented. Many people I see are single wanting "protection". The dog usually ends up at a shelter, and killed because the dog can't be integrated in family life. *sigh*. I don't necessarily need a protective or alert dog, but would be great if the dog had the extra characteristic.

strength
a dog which could pull its weight, not unnecessarily being the iditarod champion running long distances. This would be work like pulling bundles of firewood, equipment from house to road, *grin* pulling kids or me on a small sled. Even my friend's american mastiff can seem to just go a few good miles when there is kids attached, heh.

obedience
I know malamutes aren't recognized as obedient, however my current girl listens to me very well. I've a very strict personality and won't put up with the "I want to do it my way" crap. She tried pulling the 7 year old routine and the drag dog routine, didn't last with her. I've a good strong hand  In other words obedience doesn't matter with me, I'll shape the dog up. Break and rebuild. 

breeding
Either way there could be health issues by neutering or not neutering a dog. I usually have kept intact, and I believe with a good diet and exercise a good breed can go a long way. I want to also think about breeding in which case I definitely need a good well rounded dog. I realize the significance of breeding and what is encumbered with the privilege of breeding. I love to raise animals, if I lost a bitch during delivery I'd simply feed them milk myself.  I'd certainly not be a backyard breeder, I'd only breed for the right reasons. If I want money, I'll write more software or do more tech work. I want to become a grade A reputable breeder.

I'd keep my own girl, but it is a long story. There are tons of small little problems sure, but one which hurt me was the breeder taking back her word on allowing me to breed her. I feel she was trying to "bum" her off on me than ever now. I'm sure my girl would be okay for breeding, but she is not the standing example. The breeder over the phone agreed to allow breed, there was also no contract. When I went to her house I read her face once more and it was lying to me. I took her anyway, how naive of me. Alls hurt and nothing gained, cept now I just need to find her a new home(*easy*).

medical
I'd like a well rounded dog, not a dog which is prone to ear infections or gets some skin rash every time the wind blows the wrong way. I can take care of all types of cuts, injuries, sticks through body/limbs. Just as I'm taking care of my current girl's incised paw. I know the bigger could also result to problems like abscesses, benign tumors, cancer, or other lovely giant dog illnesses. I don't mind them, I never cry over them. I've had several animals which killed over from cancer to kitty aids(I don't remember what it was). Why I asked about a giant dog with less medical problems was I didn't want a dog which was a dog which I'd have to be a regular at the vets.

looks
The dog could be the ugliest animal on the planet and I wouldn't care. However I'm a big showoff and even if the dog looked odd I'd still take him to the local dog show. As long as the dog is a AKC breed I'd take it at least.

stamina
I love to run, I like to go to the beach. However there are those days when I am in pain and I don't want to do anything but relax. I'm looking for a dog which will not need tons of exercise to keep a good form. My girl is great, she does lay and relax. However I fear her being so lazy will make her develop health problems. Malamutes are supposed to be all run run run run. This one runs when she is with the neighbors dog, and I'm looking for a dog which will be able to get a proper amount of exercise in a very large fenced house yard(stretches from half-front to back).

intelligence
Must have okay intelligence. The most retarded dog I've ever owned was a beagle. I swear I'll never ever EVER EVER!! own a beagle, ever again. The dumb thing was one of the family dogs, *shrug*. Died a grim death at age 8. Just killed over, probably because nobody would give it attention. It had a wart face.... *shrug*

car travel
One thing I haven't been able to cure my girl of is car sickness, I've done with with dogs in the past. She is just terrified of the car. Just utterly terrified. No matter what methods I use she is terrified. I try driving to the beach, and each time there ends up a puddle of stomach contents. Could be because I received her at 7 months and she had some programming already. I need a dog which does okay at car travel. I know american mastiffs do alright if trained early. Try getting a 200lb lb mastiff out of the car saying, " no no out out I don't want you to come with me!" 

I don't mind dog hair, drool, or any body fluids which might exit.

Did I forget anything?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Daryl, I cannot believe you didn't bring this dog down to try MR. I love to train GIGANTO dogs.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

<<<I know what I'm wanting is quite confusing.>>>>

I don't think I'm confused at all about what you are looking for;

You want a GIANT breed, so everyone will look at you and say WOW.

you want a dog that will bite when you tell him, get in or out of the car, as the case may be, that you can hook to a sled, or put a saddle on so kids can ride at the upcoming county fair. While all the time being able to control the dog with a citronella collar and a clicker. (I may have made up the clicker part). I'm not sure if you want to enter this dog in agility classes as well, but it does sound like it's going that direction. YOu want something that's easily trained. I think it's nice of you to not care if the dog drools, there is always plastic seat covers. 

DFrost


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

That was funny!

I dont think you know what you want.I know that I would never sell you a dog even if I had this super duper handy dandy giant agility/protection/sled dog you described.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

"It Ain't The Size Of The Dog In The Fight, It's The Size Of The Fight In The Dog"




Andy.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

David Frost said:


> <<<I know what I'm wanting is quite confusing.>>>>
> 
> I don't think I'm confused at all about what you are looking for;
> 
> ...


No, you are confused what I'm looking for, . I never go for the wow affect. The giant is for the muscle. Also since it would be bigger than me, I wouldn't have to worry so much about hurting during roughhousing. I play with my friend's mastiff more than he plays at roughhousing, big 200lb dog is fun. He pins me, I pin him. He thinks I'm the next best thing to my dog. No, before I seen this forum I wasn't thinking about biting, but think it would be interesting. where the heck did the citronella come from? Those damn collars should all burn, I'll keep my great shock collars. yes I even tried them on myself. Unfortunately I turned it up to 4 thinking it wasn't much.. wroonngg.. *BBUBUUZUZUZUZUZU** I don't need a clicker, I make the sound tounge to teeth.  I've the malamute trained to listen then command on the clicks  I want something which can be challenging to train. Saints seem to have an independent mind. I'm sure its not hard as a malamutes. She used to run away from me or just run, I fixed the habit  She isn't exactly weird(not wandering) because she is genetically, she is weird because I'm so strict with her. Weeeeelll if I drown in a sea of drool, I'll let you know.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> That was funny!
> 
> I dont think you know what you want.I know that I would never sell you a dog even if I had this super duper handy dandy giant agility/protection/sled dog you described.


Nah, I know there isn't an all-in-one dog. I just have to find what characteristics I want more than the others and make a decision.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

> You want a GIANT breed, so everyone will look at you and say WOW.


hehe, when I was reading in to the other mastiff, I just had to research English Mastiffs. When I read the comments it went something like.. "when the car has broken down, you can ride your English mastiff to work!"(a joke, not real)

thinking about English, if I wanted "WOW", I'd get one of them. I don't want a English mastiff. They do alright here, but I don't want a 300lb dog. I can't imagine trying to roughhouse, he would break me :? One mastiff body slam would break me, heh. They just kinda fall over to slam in play.

now I think about it, I could also achieve "wow" by getting a newfie . They are rare dogs for alaska here, not sure why.. Though my friend says 6 years later and his parents are still pulling newfie hair out of everything  I did research them upon request of my friend since he said they are good dogs with people, even kids. The hair looks like it will clump with snow. Which is the reason I've been looking at the smooth hair(short) saint. The snow doesn't clump in their hair, however with rough(long) the snow will clump.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

My vote is for domestic long-hair yeti. Remove the teeth, great pet with nice potential for show if you buy right. Very defensive on reindeer and prospecters.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

> No, you are confused what I'm looking for, . I never go for the wow affect. The giant is for the muscle.


I can show you some 60lb dogs who'll knock your ass down just fine, heck my 40lb lil dutchie pup can pull as hard as any 70lb dog I know.



> Also since it would be bigger than me, I wouldn't have to worry so much about hurting during roughhousing.


I beat up my 40lb puppy all the time when we play, trust me, she hurts me more than I hurt her.



> No, before I seen this forum I wasn't thinking about biting, but think it would be interesting.


Every once in a while I come accross people who "think bitework would be interesting", generally these people fall into 3 distinct categories. The people who really care about their dog training and the bitework, take it seriously and get into it with heart and devotion to whatever venue in bitework they choose to do, be it sport or protection. Then there's the folks who like the work and maintain their dogs but don't spend as much time with it as they maybe should. And then there's the folks who just think it's cool to have a dog that bites to show off without understanding anything about it and who never really will. Please don't be the last.

As for being strict with your dogs, I'd like to see your training style before I would ever sell you a dog, if I were a dog dealer or breeder, because there is being strict and there is being firm. I am firm, but I am not strict. My dogs get away with everything as long as they do what I ask when I ask them to.

You have alot to learn, maybe in another year of learning and being around alot of good dogs you will have a better idea of what you are looking for.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Would somebody please hit Maren for mentioning that disgraceful shiloh thing? :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I have always adored Malamutes. Do they have the same short life span as others of thier size? I love the way they talk, & they seem very smart.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Would somebody please hit Maren for mentioning that disgraceful shiloh thing? :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> I have always adored Malamutes. Do they have the same short life span as others of thier size? I love the way they talk, & they seem very smart.


Depends, they can live at least 10 years, up to 15.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

> I can show you some 60lb dogs who'll knock your ass down just fine, heck my 40lb lil dutchie pup can pull as hard as any 70lb dog I know.
> 
> I beat up my 40lb puppy all the time when we play, trust me, she hurts me more than I hurt her.
> 
> ...


The husband of the breeder told me to give her a swift kick in the ass(spanking) if she does anything wrong, which I do. She does dig, but only to hide rawhides. I always take them away when she digs them back up, they're soaking wet and probably don't taste good.

I'm not a person to get something for a short buzz only to get rid of it. Not why I got the malamute. I still run with her, she just wants to run much more than I can. Bitework would be a lot of training, and If I did then I'd keep at it constantly.

Maybe a feeling of accomplishment, maybe I'd want to pursue training. I like to accomplish, not play games or go out with friends. If there isn't any progress then I don't want to do it, I'll find some activity which provides progress. This is how I think. So think "no life" except to make progress. Work-o-holic. Loves to only perform tasks which promote progress.

I've much time to decide which breed, As the malamutes foot is hurt and she isn't at age to spay anyway, I'm waiting until she matures. I know this also sounds weird, but I'm taping her spay job out of interest of veterinary care. I want to educate peopel dogs are not all about cute, fun, and joy. There are negative sides to dogs, they get sick, get hurt, and because of people's sick ways.. get cross bred to kick mes like puggles or cockapoos.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI


I have never heard of a YETI - had to look that one up. Woody your too funny. :lol:


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

I think a Wookiee would be a better pet than a yeti.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI YETI
> ...


That particular photo is more of a Bumble*, I think, or, as Woody says, a domestic Yeti.


*Abominable Snowman


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

..or you can get the CKC show version known as the "Sasquatch" - more coat, lower drive..


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

David, Thanks for the info on Mals' lifespan. So that means they live a good long life. What about drafting/pulling competions with her? That might be fun. I have to say it again, I just love Malamutes. They are so gorgeous, & seem to have a great sense of humor.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

<<<No, you are confused what I'm looking for,>>>

Actually, I'm not confused. I think one of the things you are looking for has been found on this forum. Which isn't a bad thing I reckon. I'm sure you'll find a dog you like that AKC registered, big, trainable and that will make you happy. 

I will close with a saying my favorite uncle uses frequently though;"You , got more shit than a Christmas turkey."

DFrost


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> David, Thanks for the info on Mals' lifespan. So that means they live a good long life. What about drafting/pulling competions with her? That might be fun. I have to say it again, I just love Malamutes. They are so gorgeous, & seem to have a great sense of humor.


She is 80 lbs, but from most of the people who do pull, she can probably bull a good 1000-1200lbs. Training usually consist of a radio flyer(red wagon) filled with cinder blocks. I've distant harnesses already, mainly because I don't like to walk with collars.

My girl watches me quite constantly. I wonder who is the master. She used to try and get away with getting out of her leash during walks. I showed her with a good hand to butt. Mine acts playful like all malamutes, described as goofy. She is prone to laziness. When she is outside and doesn't want to play anymore, she lays on the porch and watch me through the glass door... staring.. for a really long time.


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

My granddad also had a saying,"too much squealin and not enough wool".I think it may also apply here. :!:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If I lived in Alaska, I would probably be as bored as Dave appears to be.

Lack of human contact can make you chatty Kathy.


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:



> If I lived in Alaska, I would probably be as bored as Dave appears to be.
> 
> Lack of human contact can make you chatty Kathy.


Right. I've a house made of logs, I'm big, hairy, and smoke a corncob pipe. House is powered off the windmill and creek.

Only an outhouse exist and you have to take a bath in the creek.

Haven't any of you watched "Northern Exposure"?


I'm just kidding about above, I've a modern yet Alaskan place.


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## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

If I lived in Alaska, I would probably be as bored as Dave appears to be.

Lack of human contact can make you chatty Kathy 

you forgot to factor in the insomnia that comes with 18+ hours of darkness


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

How about a Cane Corso? Giant, muscular, will bite if necessary, but will also let kids pet all over it (just ask my cousin - she wants one now :lol: )



















Of course they might not do so well with the cold. :wink:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

I don't think David Frost was being funny - completely. IMO, he simply identified a long series of complete BS posts, in a bunch of different threads...all about the same thing; all going nowhere.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> How about a Cane Corso? Giant, muscular, will bite if necessary, but will also let kids pet all over it (just ask my cousin - she wants one now :lol: )
> 
> Of course they might not do so well with the cold. :wink:


Cane Corso will make an owner who doesn't understand it look very dumb very quick. Not for a first-timer around rank-driven and powerful dogs. Not a goofy pet for kids.

Stick with a Yeti.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> I don't think David Frost was being funny - completely. IMO, he simply identified a long series of complete BS posts, in a bunch of different threads...all about the same thing; all going nowhere.


David was being very, very serious. Just using invisible emoticons.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yea but Andres, tell us what you really think!


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## David Ross (Nov 24, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> How about a Cane Corso? Giant, muscular, will bite if necessary, but will also let kids pet all over it (just ask my cousin - she wants one now :lol: )
> 
> Of course they might not do so well with the cold. :wink:


The problem with trying to even get a type of dog which can do bitework is the hair. The dog would turn to a doggie sickle unfortunately. I've to stick with dogs which can live outside in severe cold. There are very few dogs I could actually choose. I don't like keeping my dogs inside all the time like everybody else in town who wants some pet which stay inside friggen 24/7 excreting and urinating everywhere. "come here tricky woo, time to go pee pee" The dog will live in my igloo... j/k


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> Yea but Andres, tell us what you really think!


OK then. I think David Ross should be banned from this forum, and I think too many people were suckered into answering a bunch of BS. :wink:

...troll...


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