# Club Helpers



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Aside from getting a break on club dues how many here pay there club helpers or how many club helpers here get payed.
Could you describe the circumstances


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Aside from getting a break on club dues how many here pay there club helpers or how many club helpers here get payed.
> Could you describe the circumstances


NONE, in Colorado, as far as I'm aware.


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## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

I work almost all of the dogs at my club for free and don't get any break on club dues. Do most clubs give the helpers a break on dues?


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

it really depends on the club, I've paid as much as $50 for 2 rounds of protection per week on top of club dues !!!! i know of some clubs that dont have local helpers and have someone flown in once a month and the club members split the cost of his flight, hotel,and fees...etc. every club seems to do things a little different


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike I see the pay issue as one of "learning a skill" and learning to read different dogs to *improve* your skill or craft. I have worked dogs in a few different venues and w/o pay. For me, the ability to read and work any new dog or breed of dog IS the pay!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

it depends on the club and the decoy. One of the best helpers in our club comes to work dogs simply because he enjoys it. He doesn't even have a dog but he loves training and sees it as a form of exercise for himself. There are other helpers in town that have to be paid, He's good and it's worth it to bring him in occasionally. We're lucky in that we have a very good club with very experience members all with good dogs. Most of the members are hand picked to ensure that we all get along and so far we have, this alone helps attracts good people and helpers.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> it depends on the club and the decoy. One of the best helpers in our comes comes to work dogs simply because he enjoys it. He doesn't even have a dog but he loves training and sees it as a form of exercise for himself. There are other helpers in town that have to be paid, He's good and it's worth it to bring him in occasionally.


Unfortunately, pay doesn't equal ability. Most of the best decoy work I've seen, has been done by guys in it for the love of the dog. I've seen a few "decoys" charge for sub par work, just because they bought a sleeve. I wouldn't trust them to work any of my dogs for free.


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## shawn murace (Feb 20, 2007)

I get a break on club dues but I also help out setting up and tearing down shows at the field. The break helps out quite a bit in this day and age. I'm just grateful to be able to work the dogs and travel to the shows though.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

no pay and no break in dues


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Well I'm old enough to remember when helpers and trainers trained for the "love of it." And all of them paid full dues! What happened?

IMHO paying helpers is what is making the sport, less than friendly, more about egos and less about the dogs. With rare exceptions does paying someone to work your dog, "make" them have your best interest at heart?! Is there truly a vested interest or ?

For seminars yes I think that's appropriate. For regular club training, no! 

Just my .02 cents ;-)~


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

So Candy is it more of a shame the Decoy are willing to whore thier work out?

OR that handlers are more than willing Johns to pay for it?

I have never been paid for my work....But I do not think that it's a crime to sell it either, people have to be willing to pay for it. I also think that no one else on the field puts themselves in the same position a helper does. I think if a helper would like compensation to somewhat mitigate that risk...he can at least ask for it. If you do not think it's worth paying for, then don't. But I think it's easy to be judgemental. I have yet to see a handler have to take off work, because of an injury from throwing the ball, putting on thier vest, cutting up hot dogs or handling the line....If you did....Your retarded. HAHA. But I know plenty of helpers whom have lost work because of working dogs, and love of the game did not pay the heat bill.


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

We have 6 helpers in our club (4 of them certified in various organizations). Our club has annual dues and a $10 field fee to work their dogs. $20 for non members. (per day) Where the dues go towards field costs (porta john, obstacles, up keep, insurance, club dues to the parent organization etc.) the field fees go into a fund that the helpers can replace sleeve covers, whips, sticks, repair training equipment etc. All they have to do is make a request to the club officers, and its discussed and voted on. The helper can then buy the piece of equipment and hand in the invoice and be reimbursed. This has also allowed us to pick up extra aprons or sleeves and eventually a suit. Helpers that have dogs and work them are not assessed a field fee if they work dogs that day. This makes it easier on them and allows them to keep equipment up to shape and optimal for training. Should we have a seminar when we bring in trainers to work with our helpers and dogs, those costs are also covered or an arrangement is made prior with the guest. So far its all been very aimiable and no one complains.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Nice setup Mike! You get my tip o' the hat. It doesn't take much to make a BIG difference...


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Lynam said:


> Nice setup Mike! You get my tip o' the hat. It doesn't take much to make a BIG difference...


Mike,

I agree. Let's beat up Mike and steal his decoys?


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

Pay to play is common in Southern California. 

I do not agree with it and dont pay for any decoy work. I will put newbies in a sleeve rather than pay for work. I find the quality of work is much better when you are finding decoys who are doing it for the love of the sport. People who are getting "paid" to decoy work have to make it look like you are getting your moneys worth. They are less likely to expose the dogs weaknesses and allow the dog to look bad in training, lest they not get their $20 the next week. Rather than pay for sessions, I pick up tabs for food, parts of trip expenses if we travel to events together, equipment cost, etc. 

I think paying for decoy work is one of the worst things to happen to the sport. Its hard enough with rising entry fees and travel cost. I think its better when everyone comes out with a mentality of working as a team and helping eachother.


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## Erynn Lucas (Dec 10, 2008)

In Phoenix, we had 3-5 helpers at a time. Ranging from 2 teaching/training helpers to just beggining club helpers. Other than dues, no payment to them. Just the desire to enjoy the sport and help bring new blood in.

Here in NorCal, I think EVERY club is pay to play. I have not heard, nor been to a single club that does not require some monitary payment at time of protection. It ranges from 15-30 (as far as I know) per session per dog.


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## eric squires (Oct 16, 2008)

I am a certified helper. I pay club dues but not training fees. I happen to work 80-90 % of dogs in protection at club as well as decoy for the club trials. I have been offered money to work other clubs dogs but don't. I do it for the experience and exercise/fun. I would decoy even if i did not have a dog to train and did for while early on. The ablitly to read dogs has saved my ass as an animal control officer dealing with Pits and other nasty dogs on the street.


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## Toran Scott (Mar 27, 2009)

It's interesting to hear different opinions here, it is interesting to listen to those who are handlers only and those that decoy. I have never been paid to decoy at a club, I was given money to cover expenses for the PSA Midwest Regionals (thanks Windy City Dog Club) but would have done it for free (and told them, so the money was appreciated). Obviously this isn't a club situation but it does highlight that even at trial levels not everyone gets everything covered. 

When I first started out I was allowed to have my dog worked for free but never paid nor reimbursed for gas, etc. The more experience I got the club that I worked with (and was pretty much the sole decoy at the time) was kind enough to reimburse my gas (I drove 45 minutes each way to the city they all lived in). I never asked for it but I did appreciate it. I did buy the majority of the equipment that I used and have spent at least close to $2,000 over the last 5-6 years. None of that has ever been reimbursed but I certainly wouldn't think it wrong if the club offered to buy me a peice of equipment here or there (as well as sleeve covers or repairs).

The club I decoy with now allows me to work my dog for free and my TD has slipped me a 20 a couple of times to cover gas. This is partly due to me taking extra time to get his clients dogs ready or if we have to travel a ways for training. He knows I work a full time job, have a great wife and 3 (almost 4) kids so my time is often more important than anything else. I work dogs because I love it and I still have lots to learn. I want to grow, I want get better and I simply love doing the work. My TD also is setting money to get me new sleeve I want as a way to say thanks for some of the above and beyond stuff I do for him. I appreciate it but it's not why I'm there. I don't feel the least bit bad for taking it though. I have driven 6-8 hours one way for a seminar (and of course paid for the seminar) and never been reimbursed by any of the clubs I worked with. I did it because I wanted to get better but obviously the club benefits at no cost to them. 

I can't imagine anyone getting rich off of decoying, I can imagine someone getting poor  , getting less poor is a nice thing that I think any club should do for their decoys when they can. Just my 2cents...
Toran


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## Toran Scott (Mar 27, 2009)

By the way Mike, your club sounds like it is set up right... must be nice having a gluttony of helpers...


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

I think its good that som places do charge for traning. Then peopel that are completly new, Have a off breed, ore a dog that is not realy that good also a shans to train. The grops that a free and have decoys just traning becaus they like it ofthen gets to be a pretty thigt group. They have the breeds they like and they have a prety hig understanding of dogs and the sport. They do not want newbees runingaround taking upp time and maby being in the way.

Later when thos newbees have goten som insight, Maby geten ther dogs to the lover levels and get more contacts in the dogsport they to will find "free" decoys.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

For my self I have had to mix things up a bit my club helpers are fairly green but learning and doing very well. I do need a experienced training helper so I do go out side of my club help and pay for help I don't mind a bit his fee is very minimal I picked up a couple of sleeve covers figured at the price he charges its the least I could do.
As for our club helpers once they get a bit if experience they get a break in there dues the club pays for all the equipment that's needed we will also pay for helper seminars/camps if the opportunity arises.
We are bringing in Dean Calderon to give our boys a few training pointers I think another local club is bringing in James Laney who I also like he is also a excellent teaching helper that our boys can benefit from we'll prolly send them to James as well.


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

Sorry guys, you can't have my helpers. But you are all more than welcome to come down and use them. :-D

The cool thing about so many helpers is that the dogs get to see everything. Big, little, male, female, right handed, left handed. We have every base covered regarding whatever a dog may run into. It keeps the dogs frosty and sharp and lets us run all sorts of scenarios and training procedures. For sport we can put a rabbit in every blind, for police we can have multiple send offs, we can work dogs faster (we average about 20 dogs at training) and no one gets sick, tired or hurt because of fatigue. The other good thing is that there are 6 pairs of informed and knowledgeable eyes to watch what you're doing and see from the side to watch both dog and helper. More experienced helpers help out the greener ones and the TD matches up helpers with the dogs based on what is needed for the training and the abilities of both to get the most out of both. By the experienced guys mentoring the greener ones the TD can concentrate on the training of the dog and handler and can focus his energies there rather than on all three. Where necessary and possible he also makes notes in the log books on the helper to help them improve as well.

Each helper also takes a turn on the training logs. Each dog has a card with relavent info on dog, owner/handler. Behind each card is the training sheets on each dog. These contain the date, what training was done, problems or observations and notes on what to work on the next session. The helper is also listed so we can make comparisons, keep track of who worked what dog and if there is a trend with that particular dog/helper match up. These are referenced as dogs are put into the que so the helper knows whats going on. 

The other advantage to having multiple helpers, is it allows time for the TD and the helper to go over things with the handler while the next dog is on the field and working. No long lags between dogs. The "on deck" helper goes over things with the "on deck" handler after looking at the previous training session notes and they can work out a plan for training that session. As one comes off the field and the post session brief is going on, the next "team" is ready to go and is working. Works great. The TD can then sit down with the books and see how things are progressing and make a plan for the next session and there is a ready reference for the dog team. It works great and is probaby one of the most valuable tools our club and helpers have.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Spivey said:


> Sorry guys, you can't have my helpers. But you are all more than welcome to come down and use them. :-D
> 
> The cool thing about so many helpers is that the dogs get to see everything. Big, little, male, female, right handed, left handed. We have every base covered regarding whatever a dog may run into. It keeps the dogs frosty and sharp and lets us run all sorts of scenarios and training procedures. For sport we can put a rabbit in every blind, for police we can have multiple send offs, we can work dogs faster (we average about 20 dogs at training) and no one gets sick, tired or hurt because of fatigue. The other good thing is that there are 6 pairs of informed and knowledgeable eyes to watch what you're doing and see from the side to watch both dog and helper. More experienced helpers help out the greener ones and the TD matches up helpers with the dogs based on what is needed for the training and the abilities of both to get the most out of both. By the experienced guys mentoring the greener ones the TD can concentrate on the training of the dog and handler and can focus his energies there rather than on all three. Where necessary and possible he also makes notes in the log books on the helper to help them improve as well.
> 
> ...


EXELENT!!! is all I can say. And the club is if you don't mind me asking?


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks Mike.
Space Coast Schutzhund Club
We're in Cocoa, Florida.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Spivey said:


> Thanks Mike.
> Space Coast Schutzhund Club
> We're in Cocoa, Florida.


I'll keep my eye out for your crew


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't mind chipping in to help a decoy with gas money or if he does
extra work, etc. I do mind if a decoy "charges" for regular club decoy work


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Very interesting to see opinions from handlers and helpers/decoys. My ex-club's helpers did not get paid or any reduction in dues. The club paid for sleeves and sleeve covers and I believe scratch pants but at least one helper (my guy) purchased their own sticks, whips and any other equipment they wanted to use for training. We even paid out of pocket for the helper seminars that he attended. 

I don't mind chipping in for gas or lunch for an outside helper to come in and work dogs. I'm not sure I would pay for anything else (pay to play) for some of the same reasons Candace stated. 

I like Mike's clubs ideas for payment and reimbursement. I'll pass that information along to our newly forming club if he doesn't mind.


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

Go ahead Terry. If it helps your club then thats great.
All our helpers bought their own equipment to start. And any club can always use extra equipment. The most common replacement is the sleeve cover and this is easily justified as $30-40 versus a hefty vet bill to replace a set of canines because of a crappy sleeve. Despite the possibility of accidents, no handler wants to hear that his or her dog just broke a canine on a sleeve that should have been replaced. The old sleeve covers get recycled as puppy tugs and bite toys. So the cost is minimal. 

One of the first pieces of equipment our club built was a sleeve rack so that we could keep our sleeves off the ground and out of the sand, and handy as we go on the field. We made it out of PVC and it can hang 6-8 sleeves on it. For less than $20 we have something that takes care of 100's of $ of equipment.

I don't mind paying $10-$20 to go to another club's field. Its only fair for the helpers or club if they are getting something to replace their gear. And I watch the helper(s) first before my dog goes out for protection work to make sure that I want those helpers working my dog. While I don't mind paying for the work, I want it done right and if there is a problem or the helper is woefully incompetent, its not worth the money to me and I'll pass and watch. Any club or serious helper knows there is no big payola to be had doing this. You have to do it because you like to do it.


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