# how to get my dogs to bark



## Gerald Dunn

I have two Lab's that are just now starting HRD and are doing great but I need to start getting them to bark when they do a find. I use tennis ball for the reward. Until now barking was not a thing that I allowed so I know I have to retrain when it is allowed. any help please


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## Matt Vandart

If they are ball mad I would use frustration. I usually find if you sit down and put the ball under your foot, they will try and get it, shiggle the ball around under your foot and they will soon get pretty pissed and bark. Mark and reward with the ball.
Give the bark a name, then add it to your routine.

Hope this helps.


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## Sarah Platts

Gerald Dunn said:


> I have two Lab's that are just now starting HRD and are doing great but I need to start getting them to bark when they do a find. I use tennis ball for the reward. Until now barking was not a thing that I allowed so I know I have to retrain when it is allowed. any help please


There are a couple of ways of doing this. One way is to teach the dogs to bark on command. This starts outside the search sequent to teach the behavior and usually food is involved and you verbally taunt the dog until it gives any verbal sounds including "whuffing" and you immediately reward. Over time you pare down to just "barks". You can teach it to a cue word such as "speak". And then backchaining that behavior into the search sequence and the HRD work - yes you may have to cue initially. 

Another way is frustrating the dog until it gives something verbal and reward (normally food because it's easier to do quick multiple reps with food vs a ball that you must let the dog play with and then get back to do all over again). This is easier to do with live victims because they can tease the dog up while the handler stands off to one side.

Another way is to put the item in situations where the dog cannot do it's passive response (sit or down) and you wait for the dog to become frustrated and it does something verbal (normally it starts as a whine) and immediately reward. You build from there until you get the bark. 

What alert are the dogs doing now? Sits? Downs? and what is the driving force to introducing the bark alert at this stage of the game (USAR rubble work?) Is this something you want the dog to do in place of something else now (?) or in addition to (?) Under all conditions? Or just specific ones like rubble work? If you have an active alert (digs or scratches) adding verbal can be easier because it's easier to amp up an already active dog. Also I know of one organization (unless they've changed their rules) that will not certify an HRD dog with a bark alert unless the bark alert is coupled with either a passive or active alert.


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## Jim Delbridge

Of my four personal dogs that I've trained, the first was a bark alert with a touch. The second was a down with the source between her front paws(if possible). The third is a bark alert with a touch. The fourth knows what "bark" means, but when he makes a find gets so excited that the bark becomes a series of air bites. He chose a playbow as his way to alert. All of my dogs pursue scent without needing to be in sight of me; Thus, the down indication often became a case of "crap, now we have to find the dog." as her commitment to source was very high. 
I, incidentally, trained a down on her because all the "experts" of the time thought a bark was not a good idea. Since the experience with the down indication, I re-instituted a bark.
The fourth dog has decided that if I'm not in sight, that he will bark at source if I can't see his playbow....so, I'm good with it. He also has a touch target.

All of the barks were back chained in as in I taught the bark as an obedience exercise until I could whisper bark with my back to the dog and it would bark expecting me to toss a wienie slice behind me for it as a reward. Once the bark was solid, then I began asking for it at finds ignoring their natural touch. Over time the rewarded alert becomes prevalent and the natural becomes optional on request, i.e. I get a touch at source if I ask "show me."
The natural indication was identified by a month of imprinting with the dog on various sources laid out in the puppy's path. Dog noses source and big party ensues. After a month of this 5, 6, or more times a day then I suddenly ignored the dog. Wanting the big party, the dog gave it's natural indication to communicate to me, "hey, I found something! Where's my party?!!!"

I have used the ball under the shoe for a bark. I've used the ball under the shoe to associate "touch" or "show me" with the touch. 

Jim Delbridge


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## Alice Bezemer

I've always found the easiest way to deal with this was to teach the dog to bark on command by tying him out and standing just out of reach, Simply telling him over to bark "Geef luid" I will hold up a finger as well and I will just keep saying "Geef luid" When he barks I reward with walking in and petting, then backing out again, i'm not a fan of using treats or toys. In a weeks time he will bark on command and on a simple show of my finger. 

Part 2 is really simple, place him near or on the object he is supposed to bark at and tell him to bark, be it vocally, or by holding up your finger. Reward profusely...

A dog will very quickly connect the dots to bark at a found object, start short work, walk away a few feet when on the bark and increase distance until dog is secured in the task and knows to stay with the object.


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## LEE SCOTESE

Have you tried howling or barking at them interspersed with what ever command you want?


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## Timothy Saunders

Alice Bezemer said:


> I've always found the easiest way to deal with this was to teach the dog to bark on command by tying him out and standing just out of reach, Simply telling him over to bark "Geef luid" I will hold up a finger as well and I will just keep saying "Geef luid" When he barks I reward with walking in and petting, then backing out again, i'm not a fan of using treats or toys. In a weeks time he will bark on command and on a simple show of my finger.
> 
> Part 2 is really simple, place him near or on the object he is supposed to bark at and tell him to bark, be it vocally, or by holding up your finger. Reward profusely...
> 
> A dog will very quickly connect the dots to bark at a found object, start short work, walk away a few feet when on the bark and increase distance until dog is secured in the task and knows to stay with the object.


 I use the same method alice really old school:grin:


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## Alice Bezemer

Timothy Saunders said:


> I use the same method alice really old school:grin:


Old school is good school! :grin:


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## Ariel Peldunas

Alice Bezemer said:


> I've always found the easiest way to deal with this was to teach the dog to bark on command by tying him out and standing just out of reach, Simply telling him over to bark "Geef luid" I will hold up a finger as well and I will just keep saying "Geef luid" When he barks I reward with walking in and petting, then backing out again, i'm not a fan of using treats or toys. In a weeks time he will bark on command and on a simple show of my finger.
> 
> Part 2 is really simple, place him near or on the object he is supposed to bark at and tell him to bark, be it vocally, or by holding up your finger. Reward profusely...
> 
> A dog will very quickly connect the dots to bark at a found object, start short work, walk away a few feet when on the bark and increase distance until dog is secured in the task and knows to stay with the object.


What if the dog is not naturally inclined to bark? My first dog would literally just stand there and stare at me ...long enough that I realized she would not bark just from the frustration of being back-tied. I couldn't tell her to bark or make gestures because to her, they were meaningless and seemed to confuse her more. She would just stand there and look at me trying to figure out what I wanted. I had to be pretty creative and use some ridiculous ideas to teach her what it meant to bark on command. Even in bite work, she would scream and squeak, but never bark.


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## Alice Bezemer

Ariel Peldunas said:


> What if the dog is not naturally inclined to bark? My first dog would literally just stand there and stare at me ...long enough that I realized she would not bark just from the frustration of being back-tied. I couldn't tell her to bark or make gestures because to her, they were meaningless and seemed to confuse her more. She would just stand there and look at me trying to figure out what I wanted. I had to be pretty creative and use some ridiculous ideas to teach her what it meant to bark on command. Even in bite work, she would scream and squeak, but never bark.


Annoy and irritate the dog. I'd stay just out of reach and poke at the dog with my hand, slap his flat head. (not hard) Best be quick to withdraw the hand tho! :lol: Pretty much irritate the dog to get what you want always works.


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## Nicole Stark

Alice, I've mostly used a slightly modified version of what you suggested. But also to what you just added about irritating and annoying them, I would make sure they were hungry and then I'd offer up their food or a pig ear. Then I'd blend in some ridiculous theatrics and there was my bark. 

Well, first it would start by me rewarding a bow, then a sneeze, a growl, and so on. Eventually all that mucking about, which was obviously me just rewarding more animated/noisy behaviors as they escalated eventually resulted in a bark, then another, and more to follow. Most of the time it took less than 5 minutes to get them barking either by a hand signal or verbal command (they were paired together from the onset). 

Ariel, what did you do that finally worked with your dog?


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## Gerald Dunn

have tried the back tie, stand on the ball and nothing. I did notice that when I was working with the other dog the one in the kennel was barking so I would get the one out of the kennel next to the kennel and play with the ball there with him till the one in the kennel barked and reward the one in the kennel with a ball. they are both very good Lab's and barking was never rewarded before so this is going to take some time but please keep sending me information and ways that you have done this because I have tried all of them so a big thanks and please keep them coming


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## rick smith

i've been skimming lately so maybe someone threw this out ...
have you tried working with another handler ?
put the dog with them when the dog really wants to play with you

keep moving away... start out facing the dog, but do an about face and take a few quick steps away and then suddenly turn around and recall the dog...not looking at the dog increases the frustration factor and the quick turn around should help increase surprise
- of course you can show a treat or toy during the reps
- as you do these reps the handler must hold fast and do NOTHING but anchor and try and maintain lead tension even if it means slowly backing up a bit
- repeat the reps while increasing the distance...the farther away the more animated you get 
- hopefully this will frustrate the hell out of the dog and it will eventually bark when it feels you are "too far" away... immediately the anchor can praise/treat and release to you
- dog doesn't get "you" until it barks
- mark anything close to a bark (noise) at first, but start raising the bar fast
- add voice or hand signal when it becomes predictable

its worked for me with low drive but velcroed dogs that already had a half way decent recall and knew the marker system....if it's been suggested, i've been busy is my only excuse 

good luck


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## Nicole Stark

Gerald it doesn't surprise me to hear the ball under the foot didn't work. Sounds like you found a way to make the dog vocalize. I'd work with that rather than trying to find a system that's worked for others. Find a method that works for the dog and go with it.


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## Timothy Saunders

when I get a dog that doesn't bark with the tie out, I leave it their and walk away out of sight. when the dogs timer in his head goes off it barks for me to come back. I usually walk a good distance away and in view of the dog so he can see he is being left before I disappear.


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## Ariel Peldunas

Nicole Stark said:


> Alice, I've mostly used a slightly modified version of what you suggested. But also to what you just added about irritating and annoying them, I would make sure they were hungry and then I'd offer up their food or a pig ear. Then I'd blend in some ridiculous theatrics and there was my bark.
> 
> Well, first it would start by me rewarding a bow, then a sneeze, a growl, and so on. Eventually all that mucking about, which was obviously me just rewarding more animated/noisy behaviors as they escalated eventually resulted in a bark, then another, and more to follow. Most of the time it took less than 5 minutes to get them barking either by a hand signal or verbal command (they were paired together from the onset).
> 
> Ariel, what did you do that finally worked with your dog?


This might sound ridiculous ...but I would knock on the door or ring the doorbell (that's the only time I ever heard her actually bark and not scream) and reward the slightest semblance of a bark. Eventually, I started cueing the behavior before knocking/ringing and then still rewarding. She actually picked it up very quickly. I and several others tried everything we could possible think of to get her to bark on a back tie, in drive, out of frustration. Like I mentioned, she would either scream and yodel (I guess is the best way to describe it) if she was in drive or just stand there and look at me like I was an idiot if I tried to get her to bark without her being in drive. Once I got the barking on cue somewhat consistently (at least to the point that I could say speak and I would get some attempt at a bark before knocking/ringing) then I started rewarding the behavior with a ball or tug and then transferred it to bite work. Now, she barks well in drive ...as long as she is in a guard or transport and not just on a back tie pulling into the harness or collar.

Someone who has a puppy out of her used the word "cerebral" to describe that puppy and I think that's a perfect way to describe my dog as well. She has good prey drive, but when she is learning something new, she doesn't offer behaviors and get excited or leak drive like other dogs I have worked with. She does squeak and scream when she is worked in prey or understands that she's about to do something exciting, but when I'm actually trying to teach a new behavior, she is almost too focused and intense and it's hard to get her to relax and be an excited dog. It makes teaching obedience and control work pretty easy at times, but difficult to train active behaviors that she doesn't do naturally (like barking). I have to get creative with things and accept that maybe I don't get the attitude or enthusiasm I want right away (at least, not in the way I have seen with other dogs as in tail wagging, ears up, animated body language), but once she understands, that will come.

Not sure if that makes sense.


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## Nicole Stark

Ariel Peldunas said:


> This might sound ridiculous ...but I would knock on the door or ring the doorbell QUOTE]
> 
> Gosh, no. Not at all. As a matter of fact the very first dog I taugh to speak I did that exact way. I might have been 11 or 12 at the time but the simple fact of the matter is I didn't know any other way how to make the dog do it on command so I incorporated an audible que that I knew would create the response I wanted.
> 
> Sometimes simple solutions are easily, if not the first, that are overlooked. That's one of the things I enjoy most about working with dogs. Creative, and at times seemingly simple solutions have a way of creating quite a paradigm shift. Besides, though my experiences in working with dogs I've learned to look at and understand people, problems, motivations, and so much more in a different - but more importantly, productive manner.


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## rick smith

frustration seems to be the first choice in this thread
maybe followed by separation and curiosity which is then reinforced and conditioned
...of course there are other reasons dogs bark

curious here ... would it matter what the reason is when teaching/stimulating a dog to bark ? or if the bark was being stimulated by the environ rather than the handler, etc ?


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## Alice Bezemer

The reason frustration is the first choice, well to me at least, is that I do not want to use things like a doorbel or other things you use in dayly life to get the dog to bark, there is a reason I do not want the dog to bark when the doorbel goes off or when there is a knock at the door, using that to teach him to bark will only make the dog more likely to bark at it in future. 

Frustration is the safest and quickest way to get the dog to bark, not by using a toy or anything of the sort, just YOU frustrating the dog into barking... The first few tries will take time but trust me he will pick it up quickly...


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## Nicole Stark

Rick, I've never found that to be the case - not if it's done correctly. JMO. I taught the Dutch to speak on command a year ago using food (in closed hand). In about 3 minutes she was consistently responding to verbal commands and/or hand signals. I played around with it for a day or two and then forgot about it for a year. Without any aspect of frustration involved, last night she responded with the verbal command and again with the hand signal. I spent so little time on it that I almost forgot I taught her to speak. 

I may not have understood exactly what you were asking but the aspects you mentioned as motivating factors to initiate the bark can and should be feathered out quickly so an association of sort isn't set as a condition to the exercise.


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## Ariel Peldunas

Alice Bezemer said:


> The reason frustration is the first choice, well to me at least, is that I do not want to use things like a doorbel or other things you use in dayly life to get the dog to bark, there is a reason I do not want the dog to bark when the doorbel goes off or when there is a knock at the door, using that to teach him to bark will only make the dog more likely to bark at it in future.
> 
> Frustration is the safest and quickest way to get the dog to bark, not by using a toy or anything of the sort, just YOU frustrating the dog into barking... The first few tries will take time but trust me he will pick it up quickly...


I used the only tool that was available to me. I had a dog that did not bark out of frustration of any kind and was only confused at my attempts to stimulate barking. However, she barked at knocking and the doorbell without any training and I didn't mind that considering that I lived alone at the time and liked the deterrent factor of a dog barking inside the house ...that's why I chose to use that to my advantage. I can see how that could create a nuisance if you didn't want your dog barking every time someone came to the door. I just use a "quiet" or "down" command if her barking goes overboard.

Of my three dogs, two are easy barkers and I'm sure your approach would have worked with them just fine ...however, not every tool works for every dog.


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## Ariel Peldunas

rick smith said:


> frustration seems to be the first choice in this thread
> maybe followed by separation and curiosity which is then reinforced and conditioned
> ...of course there are other reasons dogs bark
> 
> curious here ... would it matter what the reason is when teaching/stimulating a dog to bark ? or if the bark was being stimulated by the environ rather than the handler, etc ?


I think the end goal should be considered before starting to teach barking. It seems pretty obvious, but if the dog is rewarded for barking at the handler, it is more difficult/impossible (depending on the dog) to then condition the dog to direct the barking towards an object or scent source. In my experience, it is not as difficult trying to do things the other way around. You can stimulate the dog to bark at an object, then put it on command and then ask the dog to focus on you and bark.

I have seen many bark alert SAR dogs that locate the scent source and then turn around and bark at their handler ...or wait for the cue to bark and then bark at the handler. I think this clearly illustrates how the dog was trained in the first place. The dog is always cued by the handler to bark and is not rewarded when focusing on source. Live find dogs don't typically have this problem because they are rewarded by the victim, but most HRD dogs with a bark alert do this. I don't think it would be such a big deal if the behavior chain wasn't find source - look at handler - handler cues dog - dog barks - reward. Technically, the looking at handler is the dog's indication that he has found the source. 

Anyway, just some food for thought ...especially considering the OP is training his dogs for a bark alert on HR. Honestly, I can't think of one HRD dog that had a reliable bark alert without first getting a cue from the handler. I'm not saying the dogs didn't find source ...but their indication was not barking.

My suggestion would be either train the dogs to focus barking on the reward by keeping the attention directed on the ball and only allowing them to get it after barking (without verbal cue or stimulation from the handler) or accept that the dog will look at the handler and bark but, as quickly as possible, wean the dog off of the cue from the handler and reward quickly as soon as the dog offers the slightest bark. I think the trouble always arises because the dogs get used to waiting for the handler's command and the handler always gives the command and the dog is never expected to offer barking without handler assistance.

Hope that makes sense. I realize I'm getting sleepy and I feel like I'm rambling.


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## rick smith

Tx Ariel
what you just wrote was why i asked, and was based on what the OP is training for.
- just wanted to look at it from more than a "techniques for getting a bark" viewpoint


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## rick smith

and i'm probably often guilty of "over discussing" something that is usually a no biggy problem 

but the Op did say the dogs had had some conditioning to NOT bark .... and i have similar situations, but usually it is how to shut up obsessive barkers ...when i also sometimes correct by teaching a bark on command //lol//

but i also have had dogs who probably started out life with perfectly normal biting behaviors...and then were "taught" (using that term very loosely) that all biting was B-A-D.....and then i get them a few years later and try and re-teach that biting is normal and very good


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## Gillian Schuler

Matt Vandart said:


> If they are ball mad I would use frustration. I usually find if you sit down and put the ball under your foot, they will try and get it, shiggle the ball around under your foot and they will soon get pretty pissed and bark.Hope this helps.


I would only add to this that even a "squeak" should be rewarded.


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## Gillian Schuler

I've not read all the replies - sorry

One thing we did was tie a dog to a fence and the owner moves way - at the first "squeak" the owner goes back and rewards the dog.

Works well with not so confident dogs or even with confident dogs with a hang to be near the owner.

Kibble held above its head and *only* given when the dog utters a sound.

Placing a bone in front of the dog that is attached to a fence, etc. Having someone (or yourself) approach or pretend to take it away.

Tied up near other dogs who can bark on command - weak, but might help.

We had a Cocker Spaniel when I was a teenager and he never barked. I used to hide behind the balustrade on the first floor and jump out at him when he came up the stairs - no go.

He barked eventually. Is this something to do with game dogs? Is the lure to bark only released when the game is in sight? 

There are all sorts of strange influences that we as humans are often not aware of. A male dog finds it much easier to pee when he has a scent of another dog, whereas the female goes out and pees and burns the lawn at leisure:smile:


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