# Which training book would you recommend for a newbie?



## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Hi all, I was hoping someone could recommend a good training book for a newbie to working dog training. I have read Koehlers method of dog training and the guard dog training book also. I have just got Konrad Mosta manual on training dogs too.

Both these books are quite old and wondered if there was a modern book available. The dog I have is primarily a protection dog and pet. 

Is it a case of the older methods are the best??


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

training for what?


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## John Piurkowsky (Feb 19, 2010)

"Training the behavior" by Gary Patterson. It's an updated condensation of his older books. Gary's been around forever & knows it all. Great basis for a working dog library.

Later - John


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

John Piurkowsky said:


> "Training the behavior" by Gary Patterson. It's an updated condensation of his older books. Gary's been around forever & knows it all. Great basis for a working dog library.
> 
> Later - John


I just bought that book it is a great book... thanks for recommending it guys..


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> Hi all, I was hoping someone could recommend a good training book for a newbie to working dog training. I have read Koehlers method of dog training and the guard dog training book also. I have just got Konrad Mosta manual on training dogs too.
> 
> Both these books are quite old and wondered if there was a modern book available. The dog I have is primarily a protection dog and pet.
> 
> Is it a case of the older methods are the best??


Controled aggression by Jerry Bradshaw.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

John Piurkowsky said:


> "Training the behavior" by Gary Patterson. It's an updated condensation of his older books. Gary's been around forever & knows it all. Great basis for a working dog library.
> 
> Later - John


 
Selling my copy for 1/2 price. http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f45/selling-out-must-see-17066/#post218206


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

None, train with a TD or club for a year then read the book, it will make a lot more sense


and no i am not being a smart as s. I am serious
most of my early mistakes were me deciphering books and videos with no ability to read a dog
applying the right technique at the wrong time is still wrong


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

No better book then "practise"


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> Hi all, I was hoping someone could recommend a good training book for a newbie to working dog training. I have read Koehlers method of dog training and the guard dog training book also. I have just got Konrad Mosta manual on training dogs too.
> 
> Both these books are quite old and wondered if there was a modern book available. The dog I have is primarily a protection dog and pet.
> 
> Is it a case of the older methods are the best??


Training with the Touch by Tom Rose
Training The behavior is a close second choice


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## Steven Stroupes (Apr 3, 2009)

John Piurkowsky said:


> "Training the behavior" by Gary Patterson. It's an updated condensation of his older books. Gary's been around forever & knows it all. Great basis for a working dog library.
> 
> Later - John


I agree. This was going to be my recommendation as well.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> training for what?


 Good question!! For a start everyone mentions reading the dog and the dog reading you etc. I am a complete newbie to dogs and especially working dogs. I want the dog for a protection dog for myself, girlfriend and house. I don't know how to read a dog neither do i know the perception my dog has of me.

I am fearful that I am missing a few pointers with my dogs behaviour, he can appear aloof and uninterested in what I am doing with him, he loses focus and facks off sniffing the ground leaving we jumping about and waving my arms etc etc. I generally let him do his own thing in these times as he is still "a pup". Again I don't know whether this is right or wrong.

He is an 8 mth old mali/dh cross with massive prey drive and is very confident in everything he does. He prances about like king Joe with his tail bolt upright head high and "is the man with the plan". 

I have nearly put my head away worrying about recall, chasing cyclists, chasing cows, runners, cars etc etc all these have passed and he ignores pretty much everything. He is getting more focused on me and is much more aware of what i am doing.

I have got confused about training OB or letting him be a puppy and when to start training.... I attend a schutzhund club when I can and watch other people with their dogs but to be honest i am very self concious of my ignorance and feel out of my depth. I am reluctant to attend a basic puppy class as I feel my dog needs more specialist attention and advice relating to his ability and breed.

In saying all the above I have him fairly good by blundering about and trial and error, he recalls 99% of the time and generally a 2nd call brings him in, he sits, downs, downs at distance, retrieves, speaks, stays when i throw a ball untill I release him then searches for the ball untill he finds it (this can take 10 mins but he will not give up), heels while looking at me for 30 feet or so, heels to my side when on the move.

I'm unsure if this is good progress or if I am overdoing it. he is a great dog and has taken over my life i'd hate to be screwing things up!! 

Thanks for reading and replying I will certainly look into the books recommended


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

I remember being right where you are now (i am not much further) and it was some of the most fun i ever had with my dog, i just had to figure it out myself so i would try this then try that
I thought I had his ob perfect until i watched some videos and realized how much better it could be than i even thought

he is young, 8mo, you can overdo compulsion for sure, make it fun
they can do so much more than we think they can
expect perfect but don't expect it right now, perfect takes patients


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

"I remember being right where you are now (i am not much further) and it was some of the most fun i ever had with my dog, i just had to figure it out myself so i would try this then try that"

What worries me is being inconsistent and him getting confused, I use a prong collar because he'll pull me around the place if i don't, I hoped this would be temporary but if I go to a soft collar he repeats the pulling. I have tried the "change direction" method and yes it works for about 5 mins and then he starts pulling again. I also use an e collar for recall, i found this very usefull and only have it on him for emergencies ie when he takes off after a cow (well the fluffy bit on the end of the cows tail). I find this is most upsetting for the farmer!!

I minimise compulsion and keep ob to a minimum, maybe 3-4 10 min sessions a day depending on the excercise. I never hit him (although I hace slapped him when he bit me). I hope training is fun to him and I believe it is which is evident in his cocksure behaviour, I just need a good consistent approach and steady guidance!!

Thanks again


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Anne Vaini said:


> Selling my copy for 1/2 price. http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f45/selling-out-must-see-17066/#post218206



I see that sold already!!


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## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> Good question!! For a start everyone mentions reading the dog and the dog reading you etc. I am a complete newbie to dogs and especially working dogs. I want the dog for a protection dog for myself, girlfriend and house. I don't know how to read a dog neither do i know the perception my dog has of me.
> 
> I am fearful that I am missing a few pointers with my dogs behaviour, he can appear aloof and uninterested in what I am doing with him, he loses focus and facks off sniffing the ground leaving we jumping about and waving my arms etc etc. I generally let him do his own thing in these times as he is still "a pup". Again I don't know whether this is right or wrong.
> 
> ...


 
If you want your dog to be personal protection trained, you should really find a qualified trainer in your area. Stay away from backyard so-called personal protection trainers. Having a personal protection trained dog is like having a loaded gun, you better know how to use it and put the safety one before someone gets seriously hurt. 

You cannot read a book to determine how to personal protection train your dog. Books should only be used for reference or in addition to a good trainer, not a replacement. What others have said about knowing how to read a dog is very important, in fact more important than knowing how to read a book. Some of the books that were suggested, focus on Schutzhund training and sport dog training and even though many of the same principals can be applied to personal protection, the two types of dogs are very different.

A personal protection dog will bite, maim and even die to protect it's owner (a loaded gun). Most sports dogs (not all) only play the game of protection and will not defend you or bite anything but the equipment.

There are several stages to training a dog for personal protection and most of that you will not find in a book. Only an experienced, qualified trainer will know how to take your dog through the necessary stages to create a stable, well rounded dog that you can take anywhere that will defend you if need be with its life. A good trainer will tell you whether your dog has what it takes to do the work. Not all dogs have the right temperament to do the work.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Mike Jones said:


> Stay away from backyard so-called personal protection trainers....
> 
> ... Only an experienced, qualified trainer will know how to take your dog through the necessary stages to create a stable, well rounded dog that you can take anywhere that will defend you if need be with its life. A good trainer will tell you whether your dog has what it takes to do the work. Not all dogs have the right temperament to do the work.


How do you know if a PP trainer is qualified and experienced?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> How do you know if a PP trainer is qualified and experienced?


Can't you just believe them when they tell you they're qualified and experienced? 
You have a better chance of winning the Power Ball jackpot then finding a good PP trainer.
Train a Ring Sport (Mondio, French, PSA NVBK) and have a lot more fun and save a lot of money.


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## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> How do you know if a PP trainer is qualified and experienced?


 
You will know them by their work. Ask for references. Who are their clients? Do they work with the police department, military, security companies...? Look at their demo dogs (in person no videos), they should have at least 3 dogs that are totally trained to bite a sleeve, a suit, a hidden bite suit and muzzle fight. They should be able to demonstrate total control over that dog off leash without any correction collars. Their obedience should be impeccable. The dogs should be well mannered. You should be able to approach the handler and the dogs should be indifferent and not aggressive.

You will have to interview several trainers to find the right one. There are some people out there that who know what the heck they are doing. However, be careful there are those who talk a good game but have no work product to back it up.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Mike Jones said:


> If you want your dog to be personal protection trained, you should really find a qualified trainer in your area. Stay away from backyard so-called personal protection trainers. Having a personal protection trained dog is like having a loaded gun, you better know how to use it and put the safety one before someone gets seriously hurt.
> 
> You cannot read a book to determine how to personal protection train your dog. Books should only be used for reference or in addition to a good trainer, not a replacement. What others have said about knowing how to read a dog is very important, in fact more important than knowing how to read a book. Some of the books that were suggested, focus on Schutzhund training and sport dog training and even though many of the same principals can be applied to personal protection, the two types of dogs are very different.
> 
> ...



The problem is i live in Northern Ireland where its kinda still 1932, there are very few working dog clubs that I know off. In fact the next person who approaches me and says "thats a funny looking alsation" is gonna get thumped ](*,) Maybe protection dog is a bit strong, what I want is a dog that will show aggression and have the balls to follow up with positive action if required. My girlfriend does a lot of running in forests and trails etc and theres not many folk about, hence the reason for a protection dog. She has had a few scares with crazy lookin and crazy talking folk. Although he's too young to go running now i want him ready for the future.

I want him to know a "bad guy" and act accordingly, I want him to show aggression and be able to turn it off when the situation clears. I know dogs have a loyalty to their owners but have heard of people getting attacked and the dog biting the handler by mistake I want to take steps to minimise that kind of thing.

In saying all of the above I am getting more and more interested in the like of schutzhund (I do attend a schutzhund club). I dont want an automaton dog I want him to be able to read situations and not rely on commands or at least subtle gestures.

is this a big ask???


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

any large dog will prevent almost all attacks
I used to work in what maybe people would call the ghetto. My wife came to see me one day and brought our 2 greyhounds. As she was walking toward my office on the sidewalk a group of 18 yr olds walking the other way crossed the street until she passed then crossed back...its even funnier if you have any experience with greyhounds. They are like 70# cats.

and as for automaton vs. reading situations. No Way. I will make the decisions when to act not the dog. That is how accidents happen.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

Martine Loots said:


> No better book then "practise"


That's real easy to say when you live in a country the size of one of our smaller
New England states. with a couple hundred NVBK clubs.

And all of em scrunched up to the North.....

Many Americans struggle virtually alone or in very small, inexperienced 
groups.

Perhaps I should say most....


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