# True or False - bitework with young pups



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

I sent a couple of videos of a 4 month old GSD doing some baby bitework on a rag and puppy sleeve (with an experienced trainer/decoy) to a friend of mine for her opinion. This friend is an experienced SchH trainer. She liked the pup, but said, "One can pull a pup's jaw out of alignment if too much bite work of this kind is done too soon. "

The videos show the pup tugging on a rag tied to a line on a pole, and then doing some short sends to the decoy with a puppy sleeve. The pup is elevated off the ground several times while tugging.

How many people out there agree with this and don't do this type of work with young pups? How many don't agree? For people who agree, have you ever seen a dog with a jaw out of alignment due to this type of work? I've never seen or heard of such a thing, but then again I don't train pups for bitework.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Konnie Hein said:


> I sent a couple of videos of a 4 month old GSD doing some baby bitework on a rag and puppy sleeve (with an experienced trainer/decoy) to a friend of mine for her opinion. This friend is an experienced SchH trainer. She liked the pup, but said, "One can pull a pup's jaw out of alignment if too much bite work of this kind is done too soon. "
> 
> The videos show the pup tugging on a rag tied to a line on a pole, and then doing some short sends to the decoy with a puppy sleeve. The pup is elevated off the ground several times while tugging.
> 
> How many people out there agree with this and don't do this type of work with young pups? How many don't agree? For people who agree, have you ever seen a dog with a jaw out of alignment due to this type of work? I've never seen or heard of such a thing, but then again I don't train pups for bitework.


If it was true, you would see a lot of pit bulls with poorly aligned jaws. Pups are imprinted for "hang time" competitions starting at 8 weeks old. (The competition is which dog will hang from a tug for the longest. We're talking some dogs hanging on for a 1/2 hour!)


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

If you don't mind - I'm gonna send that info along to my friend. She trains those fragile GSDs though, so perhaps it's a breed thing  (kidding!)


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Not a problem. My pup spent a fair amount of time haning of toys as a pup. Funniest thing ever. :lol: She has bad teeth (runs in the bloodline) but no damage, her teeth do align correctly in a scissors bite.


----------



## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

I have played hang games with my bulldogs since they were old enough to eat solids. 

That being said I have heard of floating bite on some GSD pups- where they have an even bite and normal scissor bite going back and forth as they age. I probably wouldn't play hang type games if the pup was showing the floating bite.

Our club TD always plays with the pups as soon as they start coming out they get exposed. He doesn't start any major tugg work until they have 
there adult teeth though.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I tugged with my dog from eight weeks all through teething and everything.

His jaw was fine. Sounds like BS to me.

However....

My dog does have a lot of horizontal lines through posterior of his canines.

My feeling is that this was caused by poor grip (tugging with canines, he is a retriever after all) when enamel was being layed down. I have seen it on some other search dogs that do not have a full grip that started tugging very early.

Never found anyone that new exactly what it was but the vet is unconcerned by it, even though I was:smile: It has not worsened with time.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've never seen a good working terrier that wouldn't hang till the rope rotted off. 
I'm not a fan of lifting pups off the ground while they still have puppy teeth. I know it's often used to show the determination of the pup. Just not a fan of it!


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I've never seen a good working terrier that wouldn't hang till the rope rotted off.
> I'm not a fan of lifting pups off the ground while they still have puppy teeth. I know it's often used to show the determination of the pup. *Just not a fan of it*!


Why not?


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just one of those quirks. I don't see teeth breaking, jaws misaligned, etc. 
I also don't want to see a pup fall from any height. Some of the videos I've seen on the web look more like "how high and far can I carry this pup".


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Hmmmmm....Bob, you must hang around a lot of GSD folks then :razz: I suppose you keep your pups in bubble wrap too until they're 18 mos. of age? Kidding!


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol: Actually we have a big variety at club. ABs, Presas, Pits, Rotts, Plenty of "hangers." No Mals! :wink:
I do believe in exposing pups to as much as possible, as early as possible.....Yes, even bubble wrap! :lol: :razz: :wink:


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

You're funny!
This friend of mine is a GSD-only person. She always has these "rules" regarding what you can and can't do with a pup. I never know if what she says is BS or based on fact until I read up on it myself. Can't change her mind about any of it though! :smile:


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

By 14 wks old my GSD Thunder had been shot over, rode in a copter, rode in a number of different boats, canoes, et. Sat in a Fire house when all the bells and sirens were going off. Rapelled with me at 6 months. 
No rules for exposure other then get rid of them if they can't take it! JKN...sorta! :grin:


----------



## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Whatever you do dont show her this, damn thing's only 9wks!


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

*WHAT A STUPID STATEMENT!* First, you would have to tie the back legs to a post, then grab the lower jaw, and then pull forward! Out of alignment!!! Right! If that were true, you would have every puppy in the world with bad jaws. They do bite and play tug with each other. You might make teeth loose, you might damage the tooth set if pulling too hard, but the other is too stupid to be true! :---) [-X


----------



## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I'd be worried about the neck before I'd be worried about the jaw, and even then only if the person doing the tugging is a total moron.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Alyssa, why the neck? I hang a bite roll up high and my pups can bite it, swing on it and I can carry on with my telephone conversations without having to worry that they're chewing another book up. Toni used to be able to time my phone calls on the state of the books 

I know for instance that children under eight years old have soft bones - I had a greenstick fracture at this age - and shouldn't do performance gymanstics but the pup isn't subjected to hours of tugging. Let's hope not anyway.


----------



## Nancy Rhynard (Nov 24, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Just one of those quirks. I don't see teeth breaking, jaws misaligned, etc.
> I also don't want to see a pup fall from any height. Some of the videos I've seen on the web look more like "how high and far can I carry this pup".


 
I don't usually post but am compelled to respond to this one. What is so impressive about how high you can bring them off the ground? Breaking the puppy teeth is simply luck of the draw and who needs bad luck? I had a Jack Russel break a puppy k9 just being herself. A pup that has grip is going to have grip on or off the ground. The only think I think is relevant is that the pup has the exposure to being able to bite, bite different materials, produce the grip and be rewarded for doing so.


----------

