# NARA's Shennanigans



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Apparently after I posted the FlA trials shennanigans, everyone enjoyed the conflict of much much better scores. 

What they missed, or no one had the guts to point out was the judges swapping out to trial their dogs.

This is unethical. It is against the rules, and that is why they want it so SEEEEEEEECRET. =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D> nice job, dumbass.

Most of you on here don't compete at sports, or dog sports, but if you plan on doing so, learning the rules, and understanding precedence. 

NOW they have a new judge who obviously knows **** all about human behavior who wants to change the rules to allow his shennanigans with swapping out judges.

I think when you look at how stupid these people are, maybe the members of NARA should take a long hard look at if this person should even be a judge, let alone on the board of directors.

Some of you will say, and have said that I am not a member and airing this is bad bla bla bla, but this shit is unacceptable, and I will continue to post it.

Here, AND in real life, I could give to ****s about NARA, but I think it is just so ****ed up. 

To think they have tried to defend themselves #-o#-o#-o


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

:?: Is there any sport (dog or otherwise) where this would be allowed? 

It wouldn't be allowed in Schutzhund, AKC...


----------



## Billy DiSciullo (Oct 4, 2009)

Hi Guys,

I don't know if it is allowed in any other dog sport of not in fact....the thought never entered my mind. I don't understand why this would be beneficial.
In the one trial where this is allowed to happen it would be unfair, not ALL the teams are not being judged consistently from ONE judges assessment.The team being judged by the replacement judge would be judged independently of ALL the other teams weather in their favor or not!! So to me it would lower the integrity of the trail! I don't think I would want to be in that position as a handler or competitor. JMO


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Apparently after I posted the FlA trials shennanigans, everyone enjoyed the conflict of much much better scores.
> 
> What they missed, or no one had the guts to point out was the judges swapping out to trial their dogs.
> 
> ...


I don't understand why non-NARA members even care about what goes on in NARA. If NARA members don't have a problem with it why do non members? It bothers you that much? If you want to join, download an app. fill it out and then protest. If not, calm down. Build a bridge. No rules were broken. Why are you sweating NARA and every little move they make? If they fart you're right there to smell it. Good job.


----------



## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

Doesn't bother me - I think that generally NARA is not full of shy, self-effacing types, and if they see an unfair score being handed out regularly, they are going to speak up. There are not so many judges and so many trials in North America - everyone wants a chance to play - I can understand that.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No rules were broken ?? Now that you have confirmed that you are clueless, feel free to realize that everything you write from now on will read like this to me

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHH


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm not a NARA member any longer. My "bad" for having an opinion and commenting. Bunch of us commented on the Westminster Dog Show especially the show Mals and GSDs and now looking back, we were out of line since we didn't have dogs entered. :roll:


----------



## Billy DiSciullo (Oct 4, 2009)

Hello Sam,

The trouble I have with NARA is in my opinion they are hurting the integrety of French Ringsport here in the US. They continue to make up rules as the go to fit their situation and make policy AFTER THE FACT! I don't care about NARA as an orginization but I do feel very strongely about French Ring and I hate to see what is being done to it by NARA. Dogs in NARA are are now allowed to have 2 scorebooks, the judges being made over night with out having to meet the requirements. They just appoint each other! But then you or I would have to meet the requirments of the NEW JUDGES and THEY would have to accept your application and such when they did not!! Believe me, I asked about that on the phone with Shannon when I thought I would have liked to have gone into the judges program. I thought in order to become a judge you needed to have titled two Rlll's. And now all the BS about wanting to have a replacement judge at a trial so they can do what ever it is they are trying to do!! I don't get it...two score books two judges at one trial...leave the sport the way it is, play the sport the way it was meant to be played!

JMO!
Billy Di Sciullo


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

NARA has from DAY ONE has always had a shaddy side.

Simple as that.

Very Sad it degenerated to this bottom barrel judging practice.

CORRUPT


----------



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Sam Bishop said:


> Doesn't bother me - I think that generally NARA is not full of shy, self-effacing types, and if they see an unfair score being handed out regularly, they are going to speak up. There are not so many judges and so many trials in North America - everyone wants a chance to play - I can understand that.


 
Hey Sam, Bet you also believe in the CRA being above board and legit free of sin.


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> :?: Is there any sport (dog or otherwise) where this would be allowed?
> 
> It wouldn't be allowed in Schutzhund, AKC...


Ironically I just asked about this situation and schutzhund, and yes it *is* allowed for a judge change under some circumstances. I also know that in AKC conformation and obedience it is allowed also.


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Ironically I just asked about this situation and schutzhund, and yes it *is* allowed for a judge change under some circumstances. I also know that in AKC conformation and obedience it is allowed also.


Really? :-o


----------



## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

Christopher Smith said:


> Ironically I just asked about this situation and schutzhund, and yes it *is* allowed for a judge change under some circumstances. I also know that in AKC conformation and obedience it is allowed also.


You need to provide documentation for such statements,
in order to have any personal credibility if nothing else.

Obviously if a Schutzhund judge were to be taken seriously ill or be injured
a substitution might be recognized, but in more than 30 years
of involvement I have never seen anything like this.

Am I to understand that these Ringers actually have some other
judge step in at a trial so that the presiding judge could show 
her own dog ? 

I suppose one judge could score the dog of another judge and
then they could change places and have the dog of the first
judge scored by the second judge ?

How can such people expect to be taken seriously at all ?

And how can the French condone any of this nonsense ?


----------



## jason farrish (Jul 18, 2008)

Jeff may I request you go back to bashing Schutzhund I get a kick out of those posts, these ones not so much


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

mod delete


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

:roll::roll::roll:


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

In the breed ring for AKC there are the 6-9 mos, 9-12 mos, Am bred, Bred by, Open that are going for the points and then there are the Specials and Veterans. The same judge must judge all the classes and the same judge then picks Best of Breed and Best of Opposite. Then the best of breed goes onto Group competition.


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

There are A LOT of AKC rules. The booklet is 100 pages of regs! Regarding Conflict of Interest:
http://www.akc.org/about/conflict/exhibitB.cfm 


*II. Ineligibility to do Specific Assignments*
*A.* Individuals with the following occupations will be eligible to judge, but not at shows, companion shows, circuits or clusters at which they offer their service (Policy - Occupational Eligibility Addendum).


Concessionaires
Dealers in dog art, antiques or memorabilia
Dog show photographers
Professional dog artists and photographers
Persons employed by dog food, dog remedy or kennel supply companies not involved as solicitors or salesmen.
Persons conducting seminars or clinics related to dogs. (Such individuals may conduct a seminar or clinic at a show, circuit or cluster after they have completed all judging assignments).
Judges who are household members of persons with inelgible occupations may not accept assignments at any show, companion show, circuit or cluster at which the ineligible person is offering their services.
 *B.* Conformation Judges and household members may not exhibit and judge on the same weekend or at companion shows within three days of each judging assignment. (Policy – Guidelines).
*C.* Any dog-related occupations not covered by the above interpretation will require individual evaluation (Occupational Eligibility Addendum).
*III. Ineligible Dogs*
*A.* A judge shall not exhibit his dog, or take any dog belonging to another person into the ring at any show at which he is officiating (Chapter 7, Section 14).


Only handle dogs owned or co-owned by you or a member of your immediate family. It is not proper for a judge to co-own a dog solely to permit the judge to handle a dog. The same policy applies to all members of the judge's household (Policy - Guidelines).
If a judge uses an agent, the agent is not to exbtbit dogs under the judge for at least four months after working for you. This policy applies for breed competition, but it is recommended to avoid at all levels (Policy - Guidelines).
 *B.* No judge or a judge's household member may exhibit or handle at a show where the judge is exhibiting and dogs owned wholly or in part by the judge or a member of the judge's household shall be ineligible to be entered (Chapter 11, Section 13).
*C.* No entry may be made under a judge if the judge or any member of his immediate household or family have owned, handled in the ring more than twice, sold, held under lease or boarded within one year (Chapter 11, Section 13).
1. Subject to same restrictions as Chapter 11, Section 13. (Policy - Occupational Eligibility Addendum)
Grooming shops or employees
Kennel owners and kennel employees
Veterinarians​ *D.* Situations that require you to excuse a dog entered under you.


A dog you or a member of your family has owned, co-owned, sold, boarded, etc. within one year (In Guidelines, with the excusal requirement added, but also in Chapter 11, Section 13).
A person who has handled for you within four months prior to the show date (In Guidelines also elsewhere with the excusal requirement added in the "CONFLICT OF INTEREST" section).
A person with whom you have a business relationship (In Guidelines).
 *IV. Judging Behavior*
*A.* Never solicit or promote assignments (Policy � Guidelines).
1. No judge may advertise or in any manner make commercial use of his judging approval. (Policy - Occupational Eligibility Addendum).​ *B.* Never accept any payments or presents for past or future placements (Policy - Guidelines).
*C.* Advise potential exhibitors not to enter under you when their presence or the presence of their dogs might give the impression of unfair advantage. For example, if the exhibitor is:


Your employer or an employee
A relative
A person with whom you co-own dogs
A person with whom you travel to dog shows


----------



## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Were you on the debate team for your high school?


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Christopher Smith said:


> Ironically I just asked about this situation and schutzhund, and yes it *is* allowed for a judge change under some circumstances.


Barring the obvious like sudden illness or emergency, can you give examples of the circumstances? I was just talking to my "go to person" for Schutzhund questions and they said it wouldn't be allowed, but maybe it varies from organization to organization? Also would the judge change be done to allow the other judge to compete? Or would it be something like the tracking judge stepping in to judge protection or obed for some reason?


----------



## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Debbie
If you continue to muddy things up with the facts I am going elsewhere to play.


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Craig Wood said:


> Debbie
> If you continue to muddy things up with the facts I am going elsewhere to play.


Sorry


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Barring the obvious like sudden illness or emergency, can you give examples of the circumstances?


You have two the other case is when the judge abandons.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Jeff may I request you go back to bashing Schutzhund I get a kick out of those posts, these ones not so much.

What can I do ?? It was a non sleep day. However, enough of their nonsense. Drive time to train doesn't count towards a title. 

Sell outs. Like little kids with their hands out for candy. LOL

This shit is not new, however it is rediculous. 
I still have people that PM the Mods crying. See how you gave in to the boring little crybabies ??

Farrish, check out the workingdogboard.com Lots of fun their as well.


----------

