# TICKS oh yuck



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm grossed out right now. I found a huge tick on my dogs neck yesterday. The day before I found 2 little ones not yet latched on. I use Revolution for heartworm. It says it controls fleas & ticks too. We don't have fleas. I hike in the local foothills 3 days a week & wonder if that's where they come from. Is there a product I can use in conjunction with Revolution to keep the blood suckers away? For now, I'm going over Arkane as carefully as I can after hiking & tracking too.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

frontline topspot


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I also like this overview.

http://animalpetdoctor.homestead.com/Fleas.html


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

frontline plus is what i use. still go over the dogs, esp ears, neck, legs, haunches---well, i guess i go over the dogs, esp when they've been out in long grass/woods.

the F/P will give you a good crop of dead little ticks, but there always seems to be those few that get off and crawl around, or that haven't attached yet to get their dose of poison.

personally, i LOVE lighting them up w/butane


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I also like this overview.
> 
> http://animalpetdoctor.homestead.com/Fleas.html


Thanks Connie....little trivia info in that second paragraph 

I'm allergic to fleas...might as well have fire ants bite me - the same symptoms occur:-& The only thing that I have found that prevents fleas is Frontline Plus. Ticks are another story...never found one enbedded in any of my dogs, but I have found a few walking around on the outside of their coats. I'm usually the one picking ticks of *myself* after a romp in the woods with the dogs. I can handle the ticks....but chiggers are something else altogether.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

i HATE CHIGGARS


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

steve gossmeyer said:


> i HATE CHIGGARS


Really? 

How strange.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

lacey-does frontline+ do ANYTHING about fire ants?? i'd use it on myself if it did, and if i lived anywhere those NASTY things live!!

and chiggars? is there anything that works as a repellent? i go berry hunting every summer, get a dose, and would REALLY love to know a good one....

well, it's that time of "buggy" year ladies and gents; let's hear your best remedies for the creepy/crawlies!!!!!


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Nope frontline + does nothing for fire ants. Stepped in a pile of them one night on a traffic stop . Stood there conducting business and just as I was finished....they ALL decided it was time to bite. All I gotta say is thank goodness for the woods nearby or the video recorder in my vehicle would have recorded alot more then just a traffic stop On my property I use instant grits to get rid of em' - safe for the dogs...and it actually does work.

I have yet to find anything that works against chiggers at least for me. I have allergic reactions to most biting insects


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

When I lived in Ft Lauderdale, I thought it would be a good idea to feed all the birds in the area, that is until the parrots showed up and there were ticks crawling all over the area that I had put out the food. I have never in my entire life seen that many at once. I had to bust out the gasoline.


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

PREVENTIC COLLAR. 

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, works on ticks like a Preventic collar. Revolution is only approved for use against the American dog tick; Frontline is approved for three more species of tick, but the tick has to bite in order to be killed, and it's not instantaneous. You will often have to pull off dead ticks in high infestation areas. 

Preventic is a repellent in addition to a pesticide and works better. One preventic collar will work for something like three months, and esp. in dogs that go in the water a lot, it lasts longer. It sucks that they have to wear the collar, though 

I know you can buy them at the vet's offices, not through most stores, but I would think you could get them off the internet too. I bet they're made in conjunction with Advantage, b/c before they came out with Advantix, they did a promotional offer where they gave free Preventic collars with every box of Advantage.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the good advise. Jeff, I have heard that back east sometimes ticks fall out of trees like rain. After reading the article (Connies' link) I understand it has to do with their cycles. I didn't realize birds carried ticks too. Disgusting little bastids.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I gotta clear up the misconception that with Frontline+ the tick has to bite to be killed. Frontline+ is absorbed into the dog's sebaceous glands. It is secreted from the glands, coating each individual hair.

Frontline+ is a chemical that causes an "active death." It messes with the little buggers and causes them to run, squirm and hop like mad while they are dying. (thus the perception that the chemical isn't working properly)

If Frontline+ is properly applied, the tick is supposed to get a lethal dose of the chemical before it reaches the skin.

Frontline+ is less effective for 48 hours after getting wet. It does wash off the hair, but as it is stored in the sebaceous gland, it recoats the hair.



> One preventic collar will work for something like three months, and esp. in dogs that go in the water a lot, it lasts longer.


Aren't ALL "Flea collars" extremely toxic when wet?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If your house gets invaded, toss a flea collar in the vac!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Just FYI...do *NOT* use any sort of flea/tick spray, topical, or collar with permethrin. It's a synthetic pyrethroid, a potent neurotoxin, and a known endocrine disruptor. It's found in those gawd awful Hartz drops, Biospot drops, and K9 Advantix. It's also been traced to numerous deaths.

http://www.apnm.org/publications/resources/fleachemfin.pdf
http://www.ehponline.org/docs/1999/107p173-177go/abstract.html
http://www.hartzvictims.org/

I do use Frontline, but I don't put it on every month (more like every 6 weeks or so and not at all in the winter). I'd prefer not to use anything at all. Can't wait to get chickens for the yard if we buy a house out in the country. Apparently they are excellent tick killers.


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## Kim Gossmeyer (Feb 24, 2007)

wow, I learned a lot about Ticks from this thread! Nice tips!


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Actually, I'm pretty sure that with all of the topical stuff, the tick has to bite before he will be killed (I've e-mailed them just to be sure), but a tick must be attached for 3 days before disease can be spread. 

I've also used the Preventic collar, but you have to take it off if the dog is going to be getting wet, and wait until the dog is dry again before you put it back on. It contains Amitraz.

PLEASE, please please do NOT put a flea collar in your vacuum, people! All that does is spew the chemicals out into the air in your home and it can make you and your family sick. If you have fleas in your house, then you need to change your vacuum bag EVERY TIME you vacuum, and if you want to, you can put a flea collar in the bag when you take it off to throw it away (outside, of course!), but do NOT run your vacuum with a flea collar in the bag!!


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

im just gonna buy some chickens


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

> Actually, I'm pretty sure that with all of the topical stuff, the tick has to bite before he will be killed (I've e-mailed them just to be sure), but a tick must be attached for 3 days before disease can be spread.


Please post the email response. I got the info from a company rep who did a presentation at the vet clinic I worked at.

I haven't heard the 3-day rrule. But I have been told that tick saliva is vile stuff and dogs can get unknown diseases simply from getting bitten. I wasn't so sure about this because there wasn't any evidence and we all know that not everything vets say is true.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I had not heard of the three-day thing either.

I did read on some vet school site that while the new Tiguvon is effective, it requires that the tick be fully engorged before it kills it, whereas Preventic kills the tick more quickly.

I wish it was better defined, but so far everything I have read is slightly outdated because of these new products.

I found some info on Preventic:

Preventic collars for the prevention of tick infestations are available over the counter. They should be placed on the pet snug enough to allow 2 fingers to fit between the collar and the neck. Regularly monitor the tightness of the collar, especially in growing dogs. Amitraz collars do NOT control fleas. The collar should be replaced every 4 months. Normal rainfall will not affect the collar, but remove it before bathing. Remove if any sign of irritation occurs. Do not handle the collar and do not allow children to handle or play with the collar. Do not use the collar on sick dogs.

from
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=0&articleid=1376

Several vet sites say not to use on puppies under 4 months old.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

P.S.

As Maren posted, Hartz drops, Biospot drops, and K9 Advantix are all over the research sites as DO NOT BUY this dangerous and ineffective junk.

Ditto so-called "flea collars."


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

> Please post the email response. I got the info from a company rep who did a presentation at the vet clinic I worked at.


As soon as I get a response, I will post it, Anne. :wink: Here's info about the '3-day rule':

"The disease can be spread when an infected tick bites a person and stays attached for a period of time. In most cases, the tick must be attached for 36 hours or more before the bacteria can be transmitted." (http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/communicable/lyme/docs/fact_sheet.pdf)

"*There is some disagreement about the amount of time a tick must be attached to a human before it can transmit an infectious dose of Lyme disease bacteria. The most conservative estimate I've found is 4 hours, but the most common estimates are somewhere around 36 hours. The reason for the delay is that the bacteria doesn't begin to multiply in the gut of the tick until the tick starts to take in blood. Then the bacteria must enter the tick's blood system and migrate to its saliva, a journey that takes time.*" (http://www.coepark.org/tick-info.html)

"If removal of attached ticks occurs within 36 hours, the risk of tick-borne infection is minimal." (http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/communicable/ehrlichiosis/fact_sheet.htm)

"...studies of infected deer ticks have shown that they begin transmitting Lyme disease an average of 36 to 48 hours after attachment. That means your chances of contracting Lyme disease are greatly reduced if you remove a tick within the first 24 hours." (http://www.tickalert.com/tick_danger.cfm)

"If not disturbed, a tick will remain attached to a person´s skin and feed there for 3 to 6 days....For Lyme disease to be transmitted, the tick needs to be attached for at least 24 – 36 hours." (http://www.hunterdonhealthcare.org/services/primary_care_wellness/lyme.asp)

Apparently, though, this doesn't apply to _all _tick-borne disease, though, because I found information about Rocky Mtn Spotted Fever that said it could be transmitted in as little as 5 hours.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

interesting info...lacey, i would hate to waste grits on fire ants, but if i ever move back down south, what'd'ya do--just sprinkle around the perimeter of you property? or apply to the ant nests? or both?

maren and steve--get a few guinea hens too. chickens are ok, but guineas are better, and make great watchdogs if your 4-legged ones ever lose their voices.

flea collars: absolutely a waste of money. i don't know how many dogs/cats used to show up at the clinic wearing one and completely run over with fleas. i DO remember a chiuaua (sp?) and a cat that came in w/flea anemia that both died, and others that had to be hospitalized. nasty creatures--the fleas AND the poor critters that i got the joy and pleasure of cleaning up...


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I don't like grits...so no loss to me:smile: I'm still a Yankee (Philly,PA) at heart. I just sprinkle them on top of the ant hills and in 2 days they are gone.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

ann freier said:


> i DO remember a chiuaua (sp?) and a cat that came in w/flea anemia that both died, and others that had to be hospitalized. nasty creatures--the fleas AND the poor critters that i got the joy and pleasure of cleaning up...


One of my foster dogs brought in a bunch of fleas, but before I could Frontline him, all the fleas somehow jumped ship onto my very old 2.5 year old rat. If you think of how easy it is for a puppy or a toy size dog to get anemia and die, just imagine an old rat. By the time I noticed something was wrong and was able to try and treat her (rats don't show signs of problems as they are prey animals), she was dead within 12 hours probably sucked dry. :-( One never really thinks about putting flea product on their smaller pets. In fact, snakes and other reptiles can also get ticks if they come from not great breeders or pet stores and I've seen recommendations for Frontline on a snake (but applied a little differently).


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

ahhh, Maren that's a shame. I'm sorry for the old gal. I guess I'm going to try the Frontline Plus in conjunction with Revolution. Even though the Preventic collar was considered the most effective in the article posted by Connie, I can't get past the fact that it's a collar. When I was a kid one of our cockers died and our vet thought it was related to the flea collar, plus I swim my dog a lot. I hat having to put all these chemicals on the dog, but the alternative is worse I think.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Why are you wanting to use Frontline PLUS _and_ Revolution? That's a bit much.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

In my original post I mentioned I use revolution for the heartworm. I'm looking for something I can use in conjunction with Revolution. Any ideas?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure that with all of the topical stuff, the tick has to bite before he will be killed (I've e-mailed them just to be sure), but a tick must be attached for 3 days before disease can be spread.
> 
> I've also used the Preventic collar, but you have to take it off if the dog is going to be getting wet, and wait until the dog is dry again before you put it back on. It contains Amitraz.
> 
> PLEASE, please please do NOT put a flea collar in your vacuum, people! All that does is spew the chemicals out into the air in your home and it can make you and your family sick. If you have fleas in your house, then you need to change your vacuum bag EVERY TIME you vacuum, and if you want to, you can put a flea collar in the bag when you take it off to throw it away (outside, of course!), but do NOT run your vacuum with a flea collar in the bag!!


Thanks Kristen!
That's something I never gave a thought to (obviously). I haven't had a tick problem in years, but I'm guessing now that I probably sucked up a lot of that stuff in times past.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't think I'd want to combine two different concentrated topicals (like Frontline PLUS and Revolution, for example). If you want to continue using Revolution, I think your best bet is to use the Preventic collar, or maybe spray them with something to repel ticks before you go out into areas that they might pick them up. Here are a few suggestions that I found online when I did a search for tick spray:

http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/self/23

http://www.allivet.com/Bug-Block-p/12022.htm

http://www.allivet.com/Frontline-Spray-p/16110.htm


The other option would be to switch topicals altogether and go with Frontline PLUS, and use Ivomec or Heartgard or something for heartworm prevention.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I just found this product. It might be worth a try, and you could probably use it with Revolution without any adverse effects.

http://shop.robbinspetcare.com/dogs/naturaldefense.html


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

And, I just received the e-mail response to my question, "I was just wondering *how* Frontline Plus works to kill ticks. Does the tick have to bite first?" from Merial.



> Kristen,
> 
> Ticks are difficult to kill. FRONTLINE Brand Product studies have
> demonstrated that ticks will be killed within 48 hours of coming in contact
> ...



They didn't really give a direct answer, but I guess what they're saying is that the tick _doesn't have_ to bite in order to be killed, which is what Anne said, but that it won't repel ticks or prevent them from biting at all.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I think it's saying "our product kills ticks, but not fast enough to do any good."


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thanks you, Kristen


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