# I've had it



## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Today I had someone come up to me an accuse me of cruelty (In a Petsmart no less) because I gave a mild correction to my dog (a leash pop on her flat collar and "No!" and made her sit (and do her rote obedience changes) when she became overly interested in another dog, complete with hackles and obnoxious barking. This woman had the balls to suggest I redirect with a treat and told me I was obviously just terrifying my dog into compliance... I was completely at a loss for words and frankly I'm really getting sick of the prevalance of people who think one class at Petsmart makes them an expert on marker training. Where on earth does someone find the gall to chide a complete stranger for giving a dog who was getting fresh a correction and controlling their animal? I mean I roll my eyes when I see bad or ineffective training but I wouldn't approach someone out of hand and accuse them of abuse for what was truly a really minor correction. 

It's come up before of course. God forbid you tell someone that a leash pop or a prong would not be out of place on an extreme puller or a dog lunging at strangers. The "using the leash as more than a dragging line is cruel" crowd came out to play. I've tried explaining the basis of Operant Conditioning and directing them to some good resources to little success since apparently every correction is always always bad. It gets even more fun when you get into dogs with fear issues. The discussion swiftly became "You're just wrong because the dog is scared and not learning". I was considering asking if someone wanted to meet my dog and see just how scared of the leash she is but I just left the topic because it was really just pointless. I'm not sure if they deliberately misread to their own purposes or what.

I'm usually more than happy to take suggestions and I'm not shy about asking for help but if you assistance is just accusing me of abusing my perfectly happy dog and putting her in a halti and giving her a treat, please, just leave me alone. I thought the Parelli training people for horses were bad but this was a new level of aggression over something ridiculously minor.


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

:-\" :-({|= breath deep :-\" :-({|= ](*,) Pets mart I quite going


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't bring my dogs in any of those places. In fact I rarely go in there even alone. 

I can't stand having to walk past their 'training' area & see how stupid their trainers are.


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## Holden Sawyer (Feb 22, 2011)

I am sorry this happened. I haven't been called out as an abuser yet, but I've received many lectures on how to train a dog by bystanders, acquiantences, etc. I am sure it is only a matter of time. It has happened to my friends.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Looking someone directly in the eyes and saying: go pound sand, has always worked for me. 

DFrost


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I just look at the person and tell them "Did I ask for your opinion/advice? I don't recall asking for it. When I want it, I'll ask, until then butt out". 

That usually leaves them stammering something about how they just wanted to be helpful, or if I really loved my dog I'd ... or whatever. But it leaves them confused and I walk away. A few times I've seen them kind of following me around from a safe distance, but I don't think anyone has ever approached a second time, or persisted on trying to give me advice.


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

Last time that kinda crap happened with me I was out with Viktor. After a minute of the woman talkin crap & being belligerant, I told her that she & her opinion could either ki$$ my @$$, or s_ck my d_ck. Strangely enough she didn't have anything to say after that :-k


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

before i launch into a long winded rant all i can say is either a lot of working dog owners have dogs they can't control in public 
.....or they need more imagination and a friendlier attitude 

if you're in the latter category you might want to try this approach ... i use it at least a few times every week

i'm having coffee and my dog is in a down, chilling ... person walks up ... 
"nice dog can i pet it ?" 
"thanks, but no" 
...."oh, why not, does it bite ?" 
"yes, he loves to bite and he doesn't always like strangers"
..."but it looks so friendly" (etc etc)
- then i get his attention, show him a tug and toss it a few feet (usually close to the lookie loo) .... he pounces on it, play growls and snarls while we have a 20-30sec tug battle ..... out him, slap him on the butt and put him back in a down b4 they even have a chance to comment 
- people are impressed and back off or walk away and i am happy and proud of my dog's control ... win-win for me and the dog 
- imo if you can't do that simple drill safely you probably shouldn't take your dog in public 

and surprisingly i get more comments on the out then the tugging


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Looking someone directly in the eyes and saying: go pound sand, has always worked for me.
> 
> DFrost


I'm with and have done what David has said but in a more NY type lingo :lol:, Dont worry what people say or think about your dog, its your dog and as long as your happy with your dog and handling of the dogs then thats all that matters.


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

I was more taken aback than angry at the time. I don't think I said anything beyond "Uhh. No." and walked away. Thinking about it more got me in a fuss because really, why does someone else care what I'm doing with my dog if it's not trying to eat you or bleeding on your shoes? Mind your own business. I'll let it go in a day or two. I like to hold onto a good mad and let it stew for a bit. It's much more satisfying when you let it go that way. 

There are very few places you can take dogs here. I swear I've been in nearly every Tractor Supply Co and feed store between Tampa and Gainesville. The idea was just to push her through the anxiety about new places and strange dogs in new places. Heeling down the aisles past strange dogs and sitting at attention while the less than controlled dogs pass by, all that jazz. Today just happened to be the day she was acting like a royal pill and not listening when I went to replace the fleece tug she got a hold of and shredded last night. I've only ever heard compliments on her good behavior or questions about her breed etc so this was just a new one. 

The show season for outdoor agility and whatnot is heating up so I'll be dragging her around shows shortly for the experience of being around other dogs and not being a giant pain in the ass, instead of the k-mart of the dog world.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

I get it all the time. Along with what Dave said (I like to spice things up though 8)) I ask for their professional dog training business card. If they produce (had it happen ONCE) I look it up, if they can't I tell 'em maybe they should cause they obviously know everything there is to know and should make pretty decent money with their new be-your-own-boss career.

Really it's just not worth it to try to educate them. They heard one thing (probably from a "pure positive" trainer that can't get their own dog trained) about leash corrections, it was what they wanted to hear so they stopped listening to anything else.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm on a Doberman forum. A person has a 1 year old, male Doberman that is attacking her and her boyfriend. Everybody keeps calling the dog a "puppy" and a "baby"... telling her to use all positive and give the dog treats. One person said ignore the bad behavior and just reward the good. I was like, "yeah... so your dog is attacking you. What do you do? Just ignore it and let it attack you?" Reading some of the posts makes me sick. The person even mentions a prong and everybody attacks her saying how she must not love her dog and how her dog is reacting this way because he is so scared of her. When I read the posts, sounds like the dog is king of the house and does what he wants. Doesn't want to go in the crate? Show teeth and get your own way. Don't want to have them put the leash on you? Attack and they leave you alone. Dog is totally running the show, and all the advice the girl gets is to throw treats at the dog, find a "positive" trainer, and get rid of the prong/choke, and any and all corrections. I think the general public is getting worse in this regard as far as thinking that you can't "scold" a dog, say "no" in a stern voice, etc. Don't want your dog to think you are in charge! You must be buddies all the time I suppose and cater to your dog's every wish. Oh, and if you use the e-collar, you are the devil.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I take my dogs into Petsmart and local pet stores and do OB demos specifically to get people to ask questions and I hand out business cards. (Shameless of me, I know haha) Also from weeks 4-6 of training classes I have a couple of the better clients join me and do a lesson in the store twice a week. I particularly enjoy doing this when they are having their own in store classes.

I have on occassion been confronted with these people, usually they have their dog on a halti or it is pulling them through the store, choking itself on a martingale or even flat collar trying to go every direction at once. I usually explain that 1-2 seconds of discomfort from my correction is considerably less than the 5 minutes of constant pressure their dogs experience dragging them around the store. 

Or a Smile and nod with a "thank you for your suggestion" and going back to what I was doing.

The PetsMart trainers are a joke.The head trainer at our location has been there for as long as I can remember, I have watched her take dogs from people in the store that are not there for lessons and the dogs drag her all over the place while she yells "HEEL!" and "WAIT!" to no avail. Watched her cause a 3 dog free for all in a class that got 2 people bit. A Scottie was growling at the other dogs, hackling, barking.. she told the owner that he was just lonely and to go sit between two other people with bigger dogs. The Scottie bit a lab mix on the leg, that dog pounced on the Scottie, and the other dog bit the owner of the Scottie when she stood up and started screaming. Then all 3 dogs had at it with a couple others trying to drag their owners over to join in.

I felt bad for the dogs and owners. But I admit .. I did laugh.


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> The PetsMart trainers are a joke.The head trainer at our location has been there for as long as I can remember, I have watched her take dogs from people in the store that are not there for lessons and the dogs drag her all over the place while she yells "HEEL!" and "WAIT!" to no avail... I felt bad for the dogs and owners. But I admit .. I did laugh.


That's one of the better visuals I've had today. Thank you for the laugh.

Where I used to live the big pet place and the local shelter used the vet students for trainers because they had a mandatory "Treat good, compulsion is murder" class/lab called 'Dog Behavior'. I actually laughed when my roommate brought home the book. It was nothing to do with behavior, it was how to use a clicker and the "professor" was a local trainer with what I saw as a really loose interpretation of how markers work. To my knowledge she didn't actually show/trial or do anything with her dogs so I'm still not sure what qualified her to hand out a book to people who will have to actually comment on behavioral issues but whatever. I sincerely hope none of them came off feeling like pros after that but knowing some of them it's pretty much a guarantee. 

I stopped volunteering at the shelter there after I got a lecture for telling another volunteer who was 100lbs soaking wet, to knee the 90lb lab in the chest as it jumped on her. I only had to do it once and he never leapt on me again. Unsurprisingly that dog was unmanageable with bribery and no one saying "No" and enforcing it. I was told he was put down shortly thereafter. If I'd been in a place to take him I would have. He would have made a great dog in the right hands. Purely positive is fine and dandy for some dogs but if you've got a dog who will flip you off or not be interested in what you're offering you need to have more in your bag of tricks than 'more treats!'.


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

I have a solution.... don't take your dog to a pet store or anywhere in public unless you don't mind when people say stupid things to you.....


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I have never actually seen "purely" positive zero conflict zero correction or zero force training around here. These people won't use a collar correction even on a flat collar for disobedience but they will have 3 people help them shove the dog in it's crate for a "time out." Or they will put an arm around the dog's neck and the other on the dog's butt and push/pull the dog into a sit when it is more interested in something else than the treat in their hand. Hmm. No, no force involved there. Hah. 

I used to actually stand and "defend" myself and try to explain what I do. I learned that it is absolutely pointless with most of these fanatics. Not arguing, saying something nice, and smiling usually confuses them so much they pause for long enough that I can esape haha


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

The last time I was in Petsmart I had Zak sitting at my side right inside the door. My friend had dropped us off there after a show and I was waiting for my husband to pick us up. A mother and her little girl came into the store and when the kid saw Zak raced over and hug him around his neck. Zak was not raised around kids and hasnt seen many of them either more less have one hanging around his neck. That dog never broke his sit and held his head very still while his eyes raised up to look at me as if to ask what do I do now? This mom, the little girl and me were all lucky that Zak has a wonderful dispostion-what would have happened had he not? Whose fault would it have been had the child been bitten? I dont take my dogs there anymore. I have had this happen even at a dog show. Zak must look like a friendly teddy bear to kids. Parents should be controlling their kids better.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I talk with the petsmart trainer all the time, she finally is NOT scared of my dog...LOL..

I use an E-COLLAR, when I go there...No one says anything to me.

The first time I saw her coming up to me I tossed a toy on the ground and whispered "guard" and the dog ran over to it foaming and barking. I then said "free" and the dog brought it back to me, I then heeled her around the store with the toy in her mouth and the double secret secret "growl/heel" command, where the dog heels around growling at me...ended it up with a bark and hold in my face on top of a pile of dog food bags...and then all was quiet... she did not offer me any training advice..or try to take my dog from me.

a good bark and hold will usually deter anyone from talking shit about how I handle the dog, if I am out in public...

I did get accused of dog abuse once when I choked her out for tyring to attack me when she was young...I told that lady she was welcome to take the dog home with her..she declined...


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I take my dogs into petsmart fairly often. Sometimes I ask for obedience, sometimes, I just let whatever dog I have with me do what he/she wants. 

For me, it was great for socialization - I want my dogs to be comfortable around people and especially kids. Almost every kid I've met in a store has been unfailingly polite and respectful of the dogs and their parents have been pretty vigilant about making sure they ask before they approach the dog. Or I see a kid who looks like they want to meet my dog but are too shy to ask so I ask them if they would like to pet him. 

It was also great for introducing my DS to small dogs. I do not want her to be one of those dogs that cannot be around small dogs because she sees them as prey items. Strangely, not everyone in petsmart will let their little foo-foo dog run up to my big pointy-ear dog. Oh well, enough of them have and there has been no grabbing and flinging on the Dutchie's part, so all good.

So far, no one has offered training advice. Not sure if I would be annoyed and insulted if someone did, or if I would just laugh and say thanks.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

vicki dickey said:


> The last time I was in Petsmart I had Zak sitting at my side right inside the door. My friend had dropped us off there after a show and I was waiting for my husband to pick us up. A mother and her little girl came into the store and when the kid saw Zak raced over and hug him around his neck. Zak was not raised around kids and hasnt seen many of them either more less have one hanging around his neck. That dog never broke his sit and held his head very still while his eyes raised up to look at me as if to ask what do I do now? This mom, the little girl and me were all lucky that Zak has a wonderful dispostion-what would have happened had he not? Whose fault would it have been had the child been bitten? I dont take my dogs there anymore. I have had this happen even at a dog show. Zak must look like a friendly teddy bear to kids. Parents should be controlling their kids better.


 
I have had simular incidents. I learned to antisipate what could/will happen next to prevent such incidents. My dog behaved very well, but there's always a chance.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Brian Hicks said:


> I have a solution.... don't take your dog to a pet store or anywhere in public unless you don't mind when people say stupid things to you.....


 
That's really weak dude. Seriously?


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

The employees usually don't bother me when I have a dog, often they do when I don't. It's the occasional high and mighty customer. Happens maybe once a year? Can't think of any recent confrontations. Often people avoid me because I have a "Big Pitbull" (80# AB) and despite being a very social dog he "looks scary"

I use E-collars for some things (recalls, crittering/livestock chasing etc) but not too often and have not gone into the store with one, usually just a choke or fur saver. Not that I wouldn't if I felt I needed one or was working on something, I just haven't. People might say something but I kind of doubt it. I find it funny though when people who think training OB with an e-collar is "cruel"... and yet they have an inground fence or bark collar. Apparently that's completely different.


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## Erika Ackerland (Oct 27, 2011)

Anne Jones said:


> I can't stand having to walk past their 'training' area & see how stupid their trainers are.


For some of us it is just a job. 
To trim my dog nails at home I do not hold their feet like they are horses and do it either but that is just what I have to do when working in the grooming department beccause that is what I am paid to do


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> The employees usually don't bother me when I have a dog, often they do when I don't. It's the occasional high and mighty customer. Happens maybe once a year? Can't think of any recent confrontations. Often people avoid me because I have a "Big Pitbull" (80# AB) and despite being a very social dog he "looks scary"
> 
> I use E-collars for some things (recalls, crittering/livestock chasing etc) but not too often and have not gone into the store with one, usually just a choke or fur saver. Not that I wouldn't if I felt I needed one or was working on something, I just haven't. People might say something but I kind of doubt it. I find it funny though when people who think training OB with an e-collar is "cruel"... and yet they have an inground fence or bark collar. Apparently that's completely different.


I figured to nip it in the bud, she is a nice lady and if people want to pay for that kind of training, it is better than no training...I like to make a little noise in Petsmart when I get there..so people take notice...The aim is the other dog owners, I do not want them approaching me at all...sometimes I stay in there for 20-30 minutes doing obedience. The employees only compliment me, never have said anything negative, the other people steer clear usually, and if they dont, I put the dog in a position and then I AM THE ONE TALKING SHIT to the other people, about NOT controlling THEIR dogs...
I say "spread em" at the cash counter, and she stands up against the counter and waits for her treat..and we leave..


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> I find it funny though when people who think training OB with an e-collar is "cruel"... and yet they have an inground fence or bark collar.


This one always...](*,)

A couple years ago I had one client, saw my car parked in the lot of the kennel I was working in at the time, on her way out of meeting with the trainer, dissatisfied with the way the trainer worked (ALL ecollar). They didn't want to shock their dog. I worked with them for a couple months, fighting with them that their dog was trained and didn't need an e-fence. I explained why I'm against e-fences, how they're actually more powerful than the ecollars...they ended up getting one anyway. I showed up to a lesson one day and the man (who was the one very against ecollars) was laughing about how their puppy felt that shock one time and wouldn't go anywhere near the flags now. #-o


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Brian Hicks said:


> I have a solution.... don't take your dog to a pet store or anywhere in public unless you don't mind when people say stupid things to you.....


If I were a hermit thst would be a wonderful suggestion. I'm hardly a sensitive snowflake but I was just curious if this is a common practice and I felt like ranting a bit. It's not every day that I get rushed with calls of abuse for something like a leash pop on my own dog. I mean it happens with kids all the time (Told I was cruel for refusing to buy the babysitting charge a chocolate bar at the store) but I'd never had it happen with a dog. I just thought today was bizarre and rude.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Charlotte Hince said:


> If I were a hermit thst would be a wonderful suggestion. I'm hardly a sensitive snowflake but I was just curious if this is a common practice and I felt like ranting a bit. It's not every day that I get rushed with calls of abuse for something like a leash pop on my own dog. I mean it happens with kids all the time (Told I was cruel for refusing to buy the babysitting charge a chocolate bar at the store) but I'd never had it happen with a dog. I just thought today was bizarre and rude.


Dont get me wrong people have said things...at least I think they do, they just "mutter" to themselves or the people they are with, as opposed to confronting or speaking directly to me...

it is rare that someone does confront me, but it does happen outside at parks and such, I always start off asking them...."do you even know what kind of dog this is?", and WHEN they say no, I tell them "ok then, mind your own business"....

I also do a lot of OB in muzzle in Petsmart... nothing keeps people's mouths shut more than a dutchie in an agitation muzzle, my dog is friendly and social to people, but they dont all need to know that..

I have gotten many a training gig, by working my dog at petsmart, if someone compliments me I might talk with them. I am often asked if I train dogs, I say I do it for a hobby, but take on clients occasionally and give them a card...

The easiest thing to do if you don't want to deal with it is to say, thank you, have a nice day...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> ... it is rare that someone does confront me, but it does happen outside at parks and such, I always start off asking them...."do you even know what kind of dog this is?", and WHEN they say no, I tell them "ok then, mind your own business"....



Do you ever look around, like behind the person, all around the vicinity, etc., and then ask where their own beautifully trained dog is, so they can maybe give you some pointers? :lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Do you ever look around, like behind the person, all around the vicinity, etc., and then ask where their own beautifully trained dog is, so they can maybe give you some pointers? :lol:


no I have asked them if they would like to take the leash.. I tell em to be real careful when they take the muzzle and the E-collar off....No takers yet...


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I want people to approach and talk to me, but if anybody tries to do something I don't want them to, comes too close with another dog or tries to pet mine without asking first I will step in front of my dog. I am always on the look out for stupid people, but it is quite uncommon for people to rush up my dog.

I bite my tongue frequently when I see people being dumbshits with their dogs in public. But this is not a large city, word of mouth means a lot here. So I just demo with my dog or do the lessons with my clients in public, if someone wants to ask me a question I am more than happy to answer but I don't seek people out and tell them how stupid they are or even offer advice if it isn't asked for, because I could lose clients that way.

Just works best for me, I don't bother them, they don't bother me. If my dog's are happy and under control and I do a food refusal or two or some attention heeling or flip finishes etc it's awe inspiring and people are more likely to ask me for advice instead of berate me for using corrections for something.


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

Edward Egan said:


> That's really weak dude. Seriously?


Eh...

I understand taking your dog in public for socialization and all of that good stuff, i guess what i meant to say was that you shouldn't get miffed if people say stupid things to you about how you handle your dog.

Honestly, I wouldn't say one word to anyone else about how to handle thier dogs. 

So, for clarity, don't be surprised or pissed when strangers say stupid shit to you in public about how you manage your dog.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

It's almost a free country, and people can say want they want. Doesn't mean I have to like it or ignor it. 

Grow a pair!

If I go off on some busy body making comments about what I'm doing or how I'm doing it, then maybe they would think twice next time, if I ignor them or play nice they most likely they would continue there BS.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Challenge them to walk around the store with their dog off lead and NOT under a formal command.


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

Edward Egan said:


> It's almost a free country, and people can say want they want. Doesn't mean I have to like it or ignor it.
> 
> Grow a pair!
> 
> If I go off on some busy body making comments about what I'm doing or how I'm doing it, then maybe they would think twice next time, if I ignor them or play nice they most likely they would continue there BS.


Either way, why would you care or why would it have any effect on your life if they continue with their ignorance? Life's too short man to worry about what stupid people do...


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It bothers me too, when someone tries to get in the way of mine. She accused you of a crime that you can be fined for or go to jail for in some jurisdictions and you need to stick up for yourself. If you ignore idiots, they spread faster. They are the true zombie apocalypse, eating one brain at a time. Without the blood and pale faces we sometimes mistake them for harmless. 

If "leave me alone" doesn't work, skip to the end and call the manager and have the person removed for disturbing YOUR day. Find out what they can be charged with in your jurisdiction, prior to going out "use of fighting words, disturbing the peace, etc" and make counter accusations immediately in front of the manager. Find out what the elements of a crime are, and when THEY meet them, let them know.

They basically just called you a pickpocket, pedophile, child abuser, mugger, etc and you took it. Stay calm. When you realize they are the real problem and react to them, you'll be a lot better off!! Every time I have done stuff like this, I have introduced myself to staff prior to bringing a dog.

Thanks for venting, I have an outing with a previously unruly dog in a few days to a pet store. I'll make sure I take my own advice and am prepared. 






Charlotte Hince said:


> Today I had someone come up to me an accuse me of cruelty (In a Petsmart no less) because I gave a mild correction to my dog (a leash pop on her flat collar and "No!" and made her sit (and do her rote obedience changes) when she became overly interested in another dog, complete with hackles and obnoxious barking. This woman had the balls to suggest I redirect with a treat and told me I was obviously just terrifying my dog into compliance... I was completely at a loss for words and frankly I'm really getting sick of the prevalance of people who think one class at Petsmart makes them an expert on marker training. Where on earth does someone find the gall to chide a complete stranger for giving a dog who was getting fresh a correction and controlling their animal? I mean I roll my eyes when I see bad or ineffective training but I wouldn't approach someone out of hand and accuse them of abuse for what was truly a really minor correction.
> 
> It's come up before of course. God forbid you tell someone that a leash pop or a prong would not be out of place on an extreme puller or a dog lunging at strangers. The "using the leash as more than a dragging line is cruel" crowd came out to play. I've tried explaining the basis of Operant Conditioning and directing them to some good resources to little success since apparently every correction is always always bad. It gets even more fun when you get into dogs with fear issues. The discussion swiftly became "You're just wrong because the dog is scared and not learning". I was considering asking if someone wanted to meet my dog and see just how scared of the leash she is but I just left the topic because it was really just pointless. I'm not sure if they deliberately misread to their own purposes or what.
> 
> I'm usually more than happy to take suggestions and I'm not shy about asking for help but if you assistance is just accusing me of abusing my perfectly happy dog and putting her in a halti and giving her a treat, please, just leave me alone. I thought the Parelli training people for horses were bad but this was a new level of aggression over something ridiculously minor.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Challenge them to walk around the store with their dog off lead and NOT under a formal command.


there ya go...:-\"


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

Dave Colborn said:


> Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It bothers me too, when someone tries to get in the way of mine. She accused you of a crime that you can be fined for or go to jail for in some jurisdictions and you need to stick up for yourself. If you ignore idiots, they spread faster. They are the true zombie apocalypse, eating one brain at a time. Without the blood and pale faces we sometimes mistake them for harmless.
> 
> If "leave me alone" doesn't work, skip to the end and call the manager and have the person removed for disturbing YOUR day. Find out what they can be charged with in your jurisdiction, prior to going out "use of fighting words, disturbing the peace, etc" and make counter accusations immediately in front of the manager. Find out what the elements of a crime are, and when THEY meet them, let them know.
> 
> ...


If you need to be that important to take all that time out of your day then.... i'm not going to get in your way bro.... 

A simple solution would be just to laugh to yourself and go about your business.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Unfortunately people often have no real understanding of how to train a dog with positive reinforcement and hence stupid comments and out of control dogs and poor training. In the wrong hands it can be a train wreck and for some reason makes people become very self righteous.

I have a friend who has recently taken on a part time job at a big pet store chain of doing classes for them. She trains with positive and also happens to be one of the top agility handlers in the country and her 5 dogs are fine examples of how to train with positive, including one that has a not so fantastic temperament and has gone on to be a top agility dog.

I just tell people who I know have no idea, that they clearly do not understand how to train a dog and that I didnt ask for their advice or comments and to mind their own business.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've been using the same "pet" store for over 20 years. It's a large, but privately owned business. I buy things like food bowls, water pails, leashes (for the single purpose detector) choke chains, dog houses and they have my food contract. When I call them I always make the same announcement; Hello, this is David Frost, that world famous dog trainer, how are you today. On occasion I'll get a new employee and I can tell they are confused because they always say; please hold and I'll get the manager. We've take dogs in on occasion and just have never experienced any problems. Granted the handler that has the dog is in uniform. I think the only comment I can remember is why we don't use martingale type collars. I remember answering that I do have a few dogs that are wearing martingales. I'm often asked what we do for retirement of a dog. I love looking at the person and telling them - - we just put a bullet in the dog's head. Quick and cheap. I immediately start laughing. Haven't had anyone take it serious - - yet.

DFrost


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Brian Hicks said:


> Either way, why would you care or why would it have any effect on your life if they continue with their ignorance? Life's too short man to worry about what stupid people do...


Dont think anyone here is "worried" about it.

No one ever irritates you? are you a buhddist?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Brian Hicks said:


> If you need to be that important to take all that time out of your day then.... i'm not going to get in your way bro....
> 
> A simple solution would be just to laugh to yourself and go about your business.



Brian, I don't particularly like conflict, and it doesn't help with the training effect having someone bother me. I get distracted easily. Love questions from people and constructive comments. Parents that tell their kids to ask first before they pet a strange dog, etc. Just not stupid people.

For me, I get pretty hot if someone accuses me of a crime in any case. Glad you can turn the other cheek. I do believe the zombie hordes multiply every time you let something like this slide. Just my opinion.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Dave love ya into a non gay way but i seen the lengths you will go to, thinking airedale bite fest here.

I believe most people would prefer to just walk away when u wouldn't.


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## Chris Jones II (Mar 20, 2011)

Charlotte Hince said:


> Today I had someone come up to me an accuse me of cruelty (In a Petsmart no less) because I gave a mild correction to my dog (a leash pop on her flat collar and "No!" and made her sit (and do her rote obedience changes) when she became overly interested in another dog, complete with hackles and obnoxious barking. This woman had the balls to suggest I redirect with a treat and told me I was obviously just terrifying my dog into compliance... I was completely at a loss for words and frankly I'm really getting sick of the prevalance of people who think one class at Petsmart makes them an expert on marker training. Where on earth does someone find the gall to chide a complete stranger for giving a dog who was getting fresh a correction and controlling their animal? I mean I roll my eyes when I see bad or ineffective training but I wouldn't approach someone out of hand and accuse them of abuse for what was truly a really minor correction.
> 
> It's come up before of course. God forbid you tell someone that a leash pop or a prong would not be out of place on an extreme puller or a dog lunging at strangers. The "using the leash as more than a dragging line is cruel" crowd came out to play. I've tried explaining the basis of Operant Conditioning and directing them to some good resources to little success since apparently every correction is always always bad. It gets even more fun when you get into dogs with fear issues. The discussion swiftly became "You're just wrong because the dog is scared and not learning". I was considering asking if someone wanted to meet my dog and see just how scared of the leash she is but I just left the topic because it was really just pointless. I'm not sure if they deliberately misread to their own purposes or what.
> 
> I'm usually more than happy to take suggestions and I'm not shy about asking for help but if you assistance is just accusing me of abusing my perfectly happy dog and putting her in a halti and giving her a treat, please, just leave me alone. I thought the Parelli training people for horses were bad but this was a new level of aggression over something ridiculously minor.


Quit crying about it you big baby. Just ignore them and move on.


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

Chris Jones II said:


> Quit crying about it you big baby. Just ignore them and move on.


2nd that.


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## Lauren Jantz (Dec 2, 2011)

Anne Jones said:


> I don't bring my dogs in any of those places. In fact I rarely go in there even alone.
> 
> I can't stand having to walk past their 'training' area & see how stupid their trainers are.


That is a little harsh. Some of the trainers in Petsmart are indeed stupid but most are just following policy. I quit working for them because many of Petsmarts policies are ridiculous and don't give room for individual situations and dog personalities. Once I have exhausted all other options I will use adversives but I try not to teach adversives because the majority Petsmart customers are too ignorant of dog psychology to know when it is appropriate and they take it too far. Petsmart tries to avoid any liability so they teach their trainers to only teach warm and fuzzy positive reinforcement which does have its place. Problem is some trainers aren't as dedicated as me and won’t do any side research and will take all that mushy nonsense so far that the dogs walk all over them and they bother good owners who are just doing things their own way.


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

I would have had no problems telling where to go as david said but no quiet as POL correct ,


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## Steve Groen (Aug 22, 2010)

Chris Jones II said:


> Quit crying about it you big baby. Just ignore them and move on.


I can usually move past most comments and, if I'm in a hurry and can't acquiesce, the feeling of being mean when I politely say no to discussing my dog for a minute or two or to requests to pet the dog while we're on the street downtown.

What raises my blood pressure, however, are those who own a fashionable pet dog and who decide Fifi needs to have a nose-to-nose with mine, and they let out enough leash so the dog can approach mine and block our way. That happens a lot. It forces me to either get verbal, detour into the street or to the sidewalk on the other side of the street, or some combination thereof. Not only do I not know the other dog, but my dog is fairly selective as to which dogs approach and I can't read her mind or body language every time. Vet bills are not cool. 

I haven't resolved this issue yet and may need to seek a clinical psychotherapist for the malady. Perhaps a stun gun?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

thot this thread had died but guess not ....

quote : "Not only do I not know the other dog, but my dog is fairly selective as to which dogs approach and I can't read her mind or body language every time."
- translation : i can't read OR control my dog as well as i should 

if FiFi is giving you problems u need to get control of Thor, not bitch about the fluffballs of the world :evil:

i percolates my blood to keep reading of supposedly trained dogs who can't seem to handle fluffballs wandering into their dog's "right of way" and then blaming "the other guy" 

was having coffee when some girl with two little tiny yorkies on a very long "fishing lead" (20ftplus) let them wander right up to my table within 4-5 ft. the yorkies were quiet and looked harmless; not the kind who think they own the world. had my little monster laying right under it. quietly told him no and he knew EXACTLY what i meant and didn't get up. gave the girl a hand signal to get her dogs back from us which she did. two years ago he would have eaten at least one. 
*** what is so damn hard about training a decent dog to do that ?

fwiw, AFTER it was over, i hitched up my dog and went and told her how stupid that was and what woulda happened two years ago....first made her blush...then she laffed...then she cried and i happily walked back to my dog satisfied she might have learned something about responsible pet ownership

these comments to me worse than people who allow their mutts to run wild animals who are trying to mind their own business and ignore people intruding on THEIR space 
](*,)](*,)](*,)

i have decided this crap only happens for one of two reasons :
- very lazy owner
- VERY crappy dog incapable of passing a simple CGC and should be kept out of public places


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## Steve Groen (Aug 22, 2010)

rick smith said:


> thot this thread had died but guess not ....
> 
> quote : "Not only do I not know the other dog, but my dog is fairly selective as to which dogs approach and I can't read her mind or body language every time."
> - translation : i can't read OR control my dog as well as i should
> ...


Well, I'll plead the Fifth as to whether I'm a lazy owner. :-$ My dog goes everywhere with me, and we train obedience every morning in the dark at the park at 5:15AM for 10 to 15 minutes before cardio. Perhaps that's not full-time, but I do have another life that requires bills be paid. 

As for a crappy dog, I have to admit mine does have some fear issues, probably from being taken too far too quickly by a nut of a first owner. (I'm the second, and skateboarders downtown are the devil's reincarnate.) 

However, if yours was the standard, it'd alienate every less than perfect dog from any public exposure. Don't you think? By the way, is there a perfect dog, other than Rin Tin Tin? You're the expert. 

Mine walks to work with me a mile and a half downtown every day, is well-behaved in a quite busy atmosphere all day long, and then we walk home. We've been been doing so since I got her three years ago, without incident I might add. She's completely socialized with humans, and I completely trust her with preadolescents who come into my office with their parents. (I'm an attorney and well-versed in dogbite/injury issues.) That may not be a perfect dog to you, but you and I may have grown up in different neighborhoods, too, amigo.

I'll bear in mind that I haven't got my dog completely under control, but with your comment it looks like you haven't found a cure for Fifi either. 
It's the hassle of having to deal with an owner who just doesn't get that I don't want her dog around mine that I wrote about (I thought), not so much the dog's reaction which I think I have sufficiently under control. As for Fifi, I've resolved just by your comments that she comes with the territory: there's nothing really to be done about it. And for that, I thank you for your comments.

Regards,

Steve


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i apologize, it wasn't a my dog is better'n your dog, or anything remotely connected 

- but as an attorney you know fifi and her owner has just as much right to public spaces as you and yours. has NOTHING to do with the country i live in except we probably have a lot more fifi's living here than you will ever have to deal with in a life time 

- my gripe is about people who GRIPE and write about OTHER PEOPLE'S dogs bothering theirs. and it usually doesn't involve a full blown assault on their dog by another. period

- you can spend all the time walking around with your dog and training it you want and that will probably have little effect on "fifi encounters" unless you spend time on THAT particular issue. do it correctly and you won't really care how many fifi's and stoopid owners cross your path. that means going out and deliberately setting that up, where YOU remain in control.....desensitize and countercondition ... problem solved

your dog is fine with the kids who visit your office ... great ... don't need to worry about that location anymore do you ? 
btw, did you train for that ? i doubt it 
it probably happened because you have more control of that environment, so it was much easier for your dog 

most of my customers ALWAYS show me the "good stuff" their dogs can do ;-)
and at the same time are in denial of their dog's problems, big or small

anyway, i've done it with dogs that were MUCH worse than mine .. train it away or "manage" it ... most people do the latter
THAT, by the way is ok with me too if that's what floats your boat
just stop the complaining as if it was the "other dog" and the "other owner's" fault ..... or prove why it is, cause i don't see it that way and it gets brought up here a lot 
- that is where the possible laziness factor enters ... it is a pita that most people don't want to spend time training away 

now i'll lighten up - happy holidays


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> thot this thread had died but guess not ....
> 
> quote : "Not only do I not know the other dog, but my dog is fairly selective as to which dogs approach and I can't read her mind or body language every time."
> - translation : i can't read OR control my dog as well as i should
> ...


Rick...there is a thing called "personal space"...

I have passed the CGC with this dog, and am a CGC Evaluator. 

At no point in the CGC are unluly dogs allowed to violate what I consider a dog's "personal space". 

My dog is friendly with a select few dogs. She is in no way shape or form looking to interact in a friendly manner with loose or dogs that she does not know.

what amount of space do you think is fair, before I BLAME the other person? 

3 feet?
2 feet? 
1 foot? 
6 inches? 
physical contact?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Rick...there is a thing called "personal space"...
> 
> I have passed the CGC with this dog, and am a CGC Evaluator.
> 
> ...


Here is website describing 2 types of dogs/ people...

DINOS...."Dogs in need of space"...

and the terrorists known as...MDIF'S ("My Dog is Friendly")...

http://jessdolce.tumblr.com/


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Now we're going to debate personal space!!!!????
WTF Rick?

Within the public square we all have to have a mediocrity of manners if a civil society is to be maintained.
Silly me, I thought the terms of what is correct and proper for dog behavior and expectations in regards to how public interactions should be allowed were established long ago. 

If you're going to make excuses for the ignorant or inconsiderate dog owners of the world you best think up something better than, 'you're an ass and your personal space doesn't mean sh!t.'


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Joby
first, the best comment i read on that web site was this ;
"No one but ME gets to decide who my dog interacts with."
...and that is pretty easy to do unless your head is up somewhere the sun don't shine 

- the acronyms were kinda corny, imo, but i see both kinds 
MDIF's outnumber the DINOS at least 40:1 around my town 
...the differences are obvious.....if i see a dino type i will usually try and get the handlers attention. the more under control their dog is the more i will ask if they want to come over near mine, but that is totally up to them.

- but to me it's obvious if someone is working their dog and there are times (like out in park), where i will just head off in the opposite direction and leave em alone

- otoh, one guy in particular i see a lot and is working with his standard poodle on heeling in town, and since his dog gets really squirrely when it sees other dogs i told him to feel free to walk by closer to mine and i will keep my dog in a down....has helped him a lot and another proofing session for mine (win-win).....but it is his call how close he wants to come

but in terms of personal space, i look at it a little differently.
when i'm out with a dog all the space around it is my space, never the dog's, and the dog is always inside MY space, and of course that depends on whether it is my dog or a customer's dog as to how much i want. 

- if it is a customer's dog it also depends on what i'm working on and of course where i'm at. 

- the example i wrote up in my last post on this thread was just an example of me proofing my own dog. had i done nothing the two yorkies would have made contact and tried to sniff him out. since i never saw the dogs that of course was never gonna happen. i purposely allowed them to get close because i was proofing my dog and i did it based on reading the two fluffers....seen LOTS of yorkies and the little puffed up punks that are looking to mix it up like they are the biggest on the block are EASY to spot. but i was ready to get up and punt either one if they made a mad dash at the last minute if the owner didn't reel em in

my space is about as long as my leg plus another couple feet if the dog is "incoming" off lead 
- done that with loose dogs that have run in, both with my dog and when i was with customers dogs. 

-btw, for me, "punt" means : first rush at the incoming with my hands out, which usually sends em away, but if not, get my leg under their belly and kick......over many years only done it maybe half a dozen times and most have had some air time....could care less how the owner reacts, if the owner is on scene. i do NOT try and kick their rib cage. if it's summer and i'm in sandals, i'll substitute the kick with a very hard whack on their muzzle with my tug (always carrying one or more if i'm, out with a dog); i never go for a swat on the butt or flank...been there done that
- maybe i'm lucky but never had a dog charge into me that i felt really wanted a piece of me....they usually just put on that face when they have a fence to hide behind 

- even if i'm out without a dog, the closest i'll ever get to anyone with any kind of dog is probably no closer than ten feet before i start talking to the handler.....that's just me, and even if their dog comes up to me i won't interact at all with it for a few minutes

i know this doesn't answer your question regarding my dog's personal space, but it just doesn't really apply to me ... just a habit i've developed and i'm just too much of a control freak now 
- i just don't allow them to approach me; just have em stop and instead i approach them and bring my dog to them.

i guess the habit started because i do a lot of work with dogs who aren't friendly with people, and this is the first step. i need to bring the dog TO people, so i need the people to stop, get stable and wait so i can bring the dog to them so they can FEED it .... that's the gist of how i socialize that kind of aggressive dog. never any petting; just eating treats out of their hand (which i am firmly holding) ... works for me 
.... and now it's just second nature


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Randy
just read what i wrote not what you think i meant ](*,)
where did i defend idiot dog owners ????


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ok then we are in agreement...thought you were saying something else entirely..

Every dog, that has come up to me while walking her, has been in full on assault mode...this dog has been bitten more times than me, probably..and that is saying a lot....and that is when I have strung her up...they bite her legs..that is when I was mostly in the mode of trying to protect the other dogs....NOW I boot them..and try to scare the shit out of them...

I have unfortunately (for my dog) chosen to punish her for viewing as prey AND also trying to defend herself against attacks from mostly very inferior dogs (under 25 lbs) ...she now avoids confrontation with loose dogs if possible...after she snatched up one of those yorkies around the corner, that came out of no where, a second time...after it bit my dogs leg only a minute before...as I rounded a corner, the owner obviously let it loose again...

Now people seem to think that my dog is scared of their supposedly friendly little dogs...

my point was this...your distance is a long as your punting leg...that tells me that it is OK to blame the other person at that point...Just last week my next door neighbors English Bulldog Female.. about 60 lbs..9 months old met my boot about 4 times...(in a non harsh manner)...the lady who let her out without a leash, actually got scared in the confrontation and BAILED on me, back into her house, crying......left me alone to handle it...to top it off the dog had NO collar...I downed my dog....picked up the fatass bulldog and brought her to the front porch...AFTER she bit my dogs leg, when I strung her up to stop her from fighting the fat bitch......the lady probably got scared because she came out to see me gently kicking her dog away...and screaming at her...to come get her dog...it seriously lasted about 3-4 FULL minutes, of me trying to get her to come retrieve her dog, and yelling for her to come back outside.....it was a clusterfukk...I am buying them a nice big leather collar and 2 cable tie-outs for Christmas...

the worst part is I could NOT tell the husband, for some reason...at her request...not sure if he would want to take it out on me, or his wife...so I actually apologized to HER and gave her a bone to give to her dog...

the next day, he was inquiring about my puppies...I told him they require LOTS of training..he says "you train dogs"... I said sure...he says HOW much to train Chloe, my bulldog.....???

truth is I dont want to train the bulldog, it will only like me that much more, and try to come up to me, when it is running loose due to irresponsible owners...

I think we are in agreement, even though your earlier posts seemed to blame people like me, for other people's deficiencies...


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

This sentence refers to what?
quote,
"these comments to me worse than people who allow their mutts to run wild animals who are trying to mind their own business and ignore people intruding on THEIR space." 
Toward the comments in thread referring to how prickly handlers are when confronted directly on a training discipline or dealing with loose dogs I would assume.

Yeah, I admit to being an a$$hole. I don't like ignorant dog owners and I don't like having to deal with their stupid dogs wandering into my or mine dogs face. It's a distraction I don't want or need in whatever time I can get with my dogs on any given day.
If I'm in the public square I expect, nay I demand, the same respect I afford whomever may be there. The dog/s stays within my control and not in some strangers (wheather canine or human) face.

Life has become crass enough without someone questioning the validity of 'personal space'.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Randy 
well, you "quoted" me correctly :
"people who allow their mutts to run wild animals who are trying to mind their own business and ignore people intruding on THEIR space."

-- now read the recent post that refers to dogs running (aka: chasing) WILD ANIMALS (as in DEERs to be precise) complete with video footage 
,,,,,,since when are DOGS "wild animals" ????

i'll make a guess ..... u thought "wild" was an adverb, not an adjective ;-)
and if that is how you misinterpreted it, your grammar sucks, because that would have made it a long rambling "dangling something or other" and an incomplete sentence 
...which i tend to do, but didn't in this case 


or maybe you thought i MEANT wild DOGS, eh ??
not what i wrote 

..... or maybe i care 
.....i should start using that signature : "why am i not out training my dog?"
it's making more sense all the time


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

as to someone giving me advice in public like that, I would SMILE and say Thank You. And go about my business. or perhaps engage in some small talk just for the heck of it.

This thread gives me some good ideas - show up in petsmart w/ GSD wearing shock collar, prong collar, dominant dog collar, and throw on a muzzle just for fun. Walk around and smile and say thank you alot. And of course, "No, he doesn't bite, he eats you whole". 
Donna


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> as to someone giving me advice in public like that, I would SMILE and say Thank You. And go about my business. or perhaps engage in some small talk just for the heck of it.
> 
> This thread gives me some good ideas - show up in petsmart w/ GSD wearing shock collar, prong collar, dominant dog collar, and throw on a muzzle just for fun. Walk around and smile and say thank you alot. And of course, "No, he doesn't bite, he eats you whole".
> Donna


that WILL work....trust me...


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

WTF are you talking about Rick?

Make up your mind about which thread you're responding to and stop babbling about dangling participles (or whatever) in this one.

Yeah, I flunked English 101. So what? I can't spell either.

Yeah, I quoted you correctly and by the way I put it in context. Now you've decided to use something from an entirely different thread to justify, or rather to bale out on, instead of addressing your intent of the post I refered to.

You don't like my English? Tough sh!t.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Guys, this thread is about idiots in petsmart. Lets keep them where they belong and not here.


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

These are the same kinda people that do nothing while their kids run amok like little savages when out in public. 

Next time someone says something like that just give them a good ol' hearty [email protected]#* OFF!


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## Steve Groen (Aug 22, 2010)

rick smith said:


> i apologize, it wasn't a my dog is better'n your dog, or anything remotely connected
> 
> - but as an attorney you know fifi and her owner has just as much right to public spaces as you and yours. has NOTHING to do with the country i live in except we probably have a lot more fifi's living here than you will ever have to deal with in a life time
> 
> ...


Rick,

In answer to your question about whether I trained for Susi's exposure to my office building's environment, she was very well socialized when I got her, so I didn't feel there'd be a problem. However, for the first week, she had an eCollar on during business hours because I didn't know what to expect from others and how she would react. There's never been a problem other than a growl if the maintenance man walks down the hallway with a ladder, etc. I also worried about children playing ball with her in the community hallway, in that she might innocently take the ball from one's hand and crush a finger or two. I still keep an eye on that by hiding the ball and other toys when children are present. Petting on the floor is the extent of the interaction unless I'm involved. 

She now has two issues while she's at work, however. The first is benign: When she knows I've stepped out, say, as soon as I enter the restroom, it's an automatic trip to the garbage cannister in the pantry to look for the last Indian, Italian or Mexican delicacies from someone's lunch. I don't do much with that, other than makes sure she's in the office with the door closed when I step out. She gets bored, and I'd be doing the same thing if I were here.

The other problem is other dogs walking toward our end of the third floor. I hear Susi's growl before the other dog's anywhere near our end of the building. Susi's very selective with other dogs, and, admittedly, this is my fault because I've encouraged it in another venue.

When we're at the off-leash park, Susi's playmates are few and far between. Her Rotty friend is there sometimes and there's mixed Samoyed, both of whom she loves to wrestle, but others take her company at her discretion. She doesn't like other dogs trying to steal her floppy disk, nor smell her butt unless she permits it. She clearly warns them with a growl, some are too urbane to understand, and if that doesn't work she forces the issue face to face. She was in a pack of Malinois until I got her at 16 months, and it's about respect. 

I've contemplated how to deal with that issue more than just in passing, and I've decided I'm not going to correct it. If there's a fight, it usually ends with me in the middle anyway and Susi having backed up the warning. It seems to me natural for her to defend her space as you and I would. So, when I hear a growl out in the office hallway as she warns an approaching dog, it's a necessary evil it seems to me. I call her to down beside me at my desk and that's the end of it. 

And, on the street, when Fifi presents an impasse, no, I can't always tell what my dog's reaction is going to be. I do sharply correct he if she's in heel and deviates because of the obstruction. By the way, unlike in your neck of the woods, in San Diego, Fifi frequently has the dimensions of a large sectional sofa's coffee table with a log chain wrapped around its neck. 

Susi's selective, and rightfully so. It's the obstruction per se that pisses me off to no end.

Cheers,

Steve


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## Nate Kramb (Oct 17, 2011)

Erica Boling said:


> I'm on a Doberman forum. A person has a 1 year old, male Doberman that is attacking her and her boyfriend. Everybody keeps calling the dog a "puppy" and a "baby"... telling her to use all positive and give the dog treats. One person said ignore the bad behavior and just reward the good. I was like, "yeah... so your dog is attacking you. What do you do? Just ignore it and let it attack you?" Reading some of the posts makes me sick. The person even mentions a prong and everybody attacks her saying how she must not love her dog and how her dog is reacting this way because he is so scared of her. When I read the posts, sounds like the dog is king of the house and does what he wants. Doesn't want to go in the crate? Show teeth and get your own way. Don't want to have them put the leash on you? Attack and they leave you alone. Dog is totally running the show, and all the advice the girl gets is to throw treats at the dog, find a "positive" trainer, and get rid of the prong/choke, and any and all corrections. I think the general public is getting worse in this regard as far as thinking that you can't "scold" a dog, say "no" in a stern voice, etc. Don't want your dog to think you are in charge! You must be buddies all the time I suppose and cater to your dog's every wish. Oh, and if you use the e-collar, you are the devil.



Yeah, I see stuff like that all the time on Dobermantalk. It really is pitiful that these people even own working dogs. I get so tired of their politically correct training methods. To the original poster, it's stories like yours that keep me from taking my pup to places like Petsmart. I know that if someone tries to scold me for correcting my dog I will probably go off. My dad and I have had several conversations about this very thing and he feels the same way I do with his gsd. The truth of the matter is that, nowadays, people like us on this forum are the minority. I do get a kick out of watching the trainers at Petsmart. I'm not saying that none of them know what they are doing, but I've watched several of them give instruction to people whose dogs forge ahead on the leash. Man I'd like to take the leash and give those dogs a nice hard right about.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

I've had a few funny incidents.

1. When my female was a pup we were working on distraction training/focus heeling while walking downtown, if she happen to wander in front or stopped looking at me for a few seconds, I quickly changed directions when the leash was almost tight, it got a little pop and she quickly spun around and was back in position. Had a lady, carrying her nouveau yoga mat, watch me do this a few times walked by me looked directly at my wife and said "you know, you can really tell how a man treats a woman, by the way he treats a dog..." We were stunned... I was a cop at the time, and tinned her... lol

2. We were coming back from a conformation show in the US, and I wanted to see if the US petsmart had anything different than in CDA. A lady had 2 animal children - hanging out of the cart, grabbing anything they could reach etc... I tried to scoot by with my two Mals, and the kids swatted at both of them, smacked the male on the head, grabbed the females tail. I stopped, put them in a sit, and said directly to the kids (in a nice tone) "you should always ask to pet a dog, because even friendly dogs can be mean and bite you if you scare them." The mother looks at me pipes in and says mind your business... I told her that my dogs were bite trained dogs and to keep her kids mits away, because you "never know"... even though they're good with kids... she almost had a conniption right there... bringing attack dogs into a family store... uhhh no, you brought your kids into an animal store.

3. was at the dog park, really working distraction training... every time we heeled by an unleashed dog and my female Mal ignored, she got a huge reward. Was going fine until some little crap dog just kept following and barking. She started to wander off on her OB, so she got a few corrections w/ the prong. The little dogs owner, harps at me how I'm being mean, etc... just let them play, I say, well probably not a good idea, we're working... She continued, this is a dog park, not a training centre, dogs should have fun... OKIE... I let her off leash, she spun around, and it was prey drive time! Little dog ran, Indi looked at me... I gave her the "break" and the little dog got maybe 50 feet. The horrified lady didn't like when Indi smothered her precious pumpkin into the ground and had her jaws around it's neck... she wasn't biting, but she wasn't letting go either. The lady was not happy, and I just said... ohh you know dogs, they're just playing... lol.

My wife and I struggle with what to say to ppl in these situations. I'm more forceful, and say the dog will bite (neither of them will), or it's protection trained, but people don't care... or they think you're an a-hole and mutter to themselves.

I guess in the end, I really like petsmart for socialization and to working on distraction training etc... but you will get the comments, it comes w/ the territory.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

we don't have petsmarts here so no idea what they are like

when i'm out working them, i take dogs to dogs parks with lots of loose idiot owners, in public around similarly idiot pet owners, up to gates with idiot fence guarders and all over other places where idiots and their helpless dogs are...to work the dog i'm with

what i can't seem to understand is why people on here seem to get bothered, upset or annoyed by the reactions of others ... and then post the complaint 

it doesn't bother me a BIT when other people react they way they do....maybe cause i expect it in advance ?? 
- but if there is even a slight "problem" because i lost control of my dog in ANY way .... it's my problem and my bad ... that never seems to be the case on this list 
anyway, just my take on these threads and why they seem like worthless rants


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## Steve Groen (Aug 22, 2010)

Ryan Venables said:


> I've had a few funny incidents.
> 
> 1. When my female was a pup we were working on distraction training/focus heeling while walking downtown, if she happen to wander in front or stopped looking at me for a few seconds, I quickly changed directions when the leash was almost tight, it got a little pop and she quickly spun around and was back in position. Had a lady, carrying her nouveau yoga mat, watch me do this a few times walked by me looked directly at my wife and said "you know, you can really tell how a man treats a woman, by the way he treats a dog..." We were stunned... I was a cop at the time, and tinned her... lol
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing the anecdotes, Ryan.


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