# where is waldo (endor) ???



## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

what ever happened to nierlenders endor ??? along with ringo wolterink ??? does anyone have endors pedigree ??? if so please post it


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

andrew kurtowicz said:


> what ever happened to nierlenders endor ??? along with ringo wolterink ??? does anyone have endors pedigree ??? if so please post it


give me a call if you want to discuss that.


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

if its something you dont waana make public please pm me


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I'm guessin Mexico, or they did go there at one point.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Never seen Ringo, just am aware of the dog, but Endor was one big mutha! One of the longest and tallest malinois I've seen, beautiful dog that was a MACHINE!! Hopefully, his offspring that are out there will turn out a little like daddy, these are late maturers....


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I'm hoping they turn out like Daddy, too. I have one of his little girls.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Did this dog meet a bad end? Why such secrecy, especially since he is talked up so much on this forum?


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Endor and Ringo were owned by Energidogs in Mexico. From what I understand they both went to Mexico. No big mystery really.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Is this the mysterious Endor??
http://www.youtube.com/user/EnergiDogs#p/u/15/tfbQTxBQo4Q
http://www.youtube.com/user/EnergiDogs#p/u/7/MjtQjzHG0Rw


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Yes, that's the dog. Here's another like those you linked to when he was still in Holland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ilsJE-LWQ

I tried to buy this pup a few yrs ago, but I guess I didn't offer enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j0J3bIB_QA


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## Wade Morrell (Jan 5, 2009)

Jody hit the nail on the head. Endor was one of the hardest biting dogs that I have ever worked. I have a scar on my leg from him when I got to train with Gerban back in '08. This is a quick video of us working him at the 08 Hits seminar in Louisville. Nothing special but I thought I would share..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14LKscEZlOk


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## steven sheridan (Sep 21, 2009)

I got the opportunity to see both of them work at the 09 HITS in KY. Are they still being bred? I would be interested in using Ringo as a stud.


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Yes a machine of a dog!!! built for power! that puppy video was something else!! very nice!


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

Anyone know the status of these dogs as of today ??? Are they working the streets ??? Used as stud dogs ????..etc.etc.etc


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

andrew kurtowicz said:


> Anyone know the status of these dogs as of today ??? Are they working the streets ??? Used as stud dogs ????..etc.etc.etc


More than likely dealing drugs.


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## Wade Morrell (Jan 5, 2009)

Wade Morrell said:


> Jody hit the nail on the head. Endor was one of the hardest biting dogs that I have ever worked. I have a scar on my leg from him when I got to train with Gerban back in '08. This is a quick video of us working him at the 08 Hits seminar in Louisville. Nothing special but I thought I would share..
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14LKscEZlOk


Im getting old..this was in '09


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Wade Morrell said:


> Im getting old..this was in '09


Well it's 2011 now, so that would make it 2 years old, right Wade?


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## Wade Morrell (Jan 5, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Well it's 2011 now, so that would make it 2 years old, right Wade?


:-D


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Does time run faster over the pond?


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

I have caught both dogs, Endor for sure was the hardest biting Mal I have ever caught and on my top 5 for hardest hitting yet social and stable... nice dog.


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

endor went to mexico ringo as well 
both dogs are for protection i dont think they are bred a lot 
good thing is endor has really good ofspring here in holland 
several titled already one dog i myself are very interested in and offer some pups from 
is hero van de vroomshoeve owner h bolster 6x champion last 4 years 
he will be titled this year in october 
from ringo well have really good ofspring as well several titled already also plus several really good giving females are used here lately 
greetings gerben


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

kamphuis gerben said:


> endor went to mexico ringo as well
> both dogs are for protection i dont think they are bred a lot
> good thing is endor has really good ofspring here in holland
> several titled already one dog i myself are very interested in and offer some pups from
> ...


Very nice to hear from you again gerben there are for sure very nice dogs working now from both of them but the opportunity for future endor or ringo pups looks bleek at best ????


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

The Mexican drug cartel probably isn't in the business of breeding.lol8-[


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## steven sheridan (Sep 21, 2009)

todd pavlus said:


> The Mexican drug cartel probably isn't in the business of breeding.lol8-[


They pay cash though. sounds better than a "PO". LOL!!!
Is it possible to get straws from Ringo still?


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

i dont want to look forward on things but there,s a good chance i get both back 
quit soon 
greetings gerben


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

kamphuis gerben said:


> i dont want to look forward on things but there,s a good chance i get both back
> quit soon
> greetings gerben


=D>


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> give me a call if you want to discuss that.


Mike, what's the deal with his bottom jaw, it doesn't look the same length as his top jaw.

My new Mal has this, even worst than Endor, so I'm just wondering.

It doesn't effect him, and his bite is full and hard, so I don't care, but I havn't seen this often, so I'm hoping you can shed some light on this.

-ted


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> Mike, what's the deal with his bottom jaw, it doesn't look the same length as his top jaw.
> 
> My new Mal has this, even worst than Endor, so I'm just wondering.
> 
> ...


Not speaking for Mike nor do I have any clue about Endor or his history, just speaking from my observations I have seen several Malis with very bad over bite I'm surprised as bad as it is there isnt any biting issues or teeth going into gums or roof of mouth doesn't seem to bother there ability to breed or there siblings for that matter so long as there good workers I guess:???:


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

endor had a perfect siccorbite 
didnt miss any teeth 
afer one trainingsession he hit whith his underjaw the bycicle bad accident 
just two months before i would title him in october 
he bleeded bad but after checking everything was still in 
than i went two weeks to mexico when i came back did a small distanse attack from the back 
he hit out a piece of his underjaw whith 6 teeth 
this was the reason i could not title him 
and also the reason i sold him 
till now i didnt see any pups whith an over or underbite or even missing a teeth from him out of over 40 breedings 
greetings gerben


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

kamphuis gerben said:


> endor had a perfect siccorbite
> didnt miss any teeth
> afer one trainingsession he hit whith his underjaw the bycicle bad accident
> just two months before i would title him in october
> ...




Thank you Gerben.
Wow over 40 breeding, he was a bust dog hahahaha, and a happy one I'm sure.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Wade Morrell said:


> Jody hit the nail on the head. Endor was one of the hardest biting dogs that I have ever worked. I have a scar on my leg from him when I got to train with Gerban back in '08. This is a quick video of us working him at the 08 Hits seminar in Louisville. Nothing special but I thought I would share..
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14LKscEZlOk


I too have permanent scars from that crushing upper calf/back of the knee bite...took only 2 bites there, and her punctured both times. That bite was hard!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I too have permanent scars from that crushing upper calf/back of the knee bite...took only 2 bites there, and her punctured both times. That bite was hard!


you guys are not alone. LOL 
I have worked that hound many times on the suit and almost every permanent scar I have on the bicep, tricep, and the back of my right leg was from him.
I got bit by him once in the back of my leg wearing only leather scratch pants and to this day my leg is numb in that area. You should see the hole in Gerben's leg from Endor biting him with no equipment on at all!!!
I has always been my belief that Endor was the hardest biting dog I have ever worked, I have also heard this from Gerben who has worked more hard biting dogs than most of us on here combined.
In fact, almost everyone who I let work Endor told me that he was the hardest biting dog they have ever worked.
I watched a 130 lb French Ring decoy scream like no man I have ever seen scream before working Endor in a trial weight ring suit. That was the most beat up I have seen a decoy's bicep and leg when he took the suit off!


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## Greg Whelehan (Dec 1, 2008)

Mike/Gerben:
Was this before he had his teeth accident?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Greg Whelehan said:


> Mike/Gerben:
> Was this before he had his teeth accident?


All of my scars, and the scars from all of the US decoys came from Endor after the injury. Poor Gerben's no equipment leg bite cam from Endor BEFORE his injury. (that may be the real reason that Endor is now missing 6 teeth.....maybe from the wooden shoe ass kicking that followed that bite) LOL, just kidding.
Believe me, even with a broken jaw bone and 6 missing teeth, that dog can still close his mouth!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I once brought a "real" HARD biting presa canario to a FR guy, he insisted on working that dog in a trial suit, I did warn him.

The dogs head was the size of a watermelon, the dog weighed 130 lbs, and didn't have an out yet. I told him we had to slip the suit the dog had no out...

We did forearm bites with a begian ring suit at our place with him and you could barely slip the jacket, it took another guy to help slip the jacket cause the grip was so strong. 

INSTANTLY after the bite, he screams real bite, while I was choking the dog off, the guy went into shock and went to the ground, almost passed out on us...

The dog caught him around the elbow, he ended up with 4 punctures, and his whole arm from mid upper to mid lower was black. 

That guy took only one bite, and he refused to work that dog ever again.Worst part was he had a training weight suit right there, but thought the dog was gonna be a typical off breed biter, and heeded all warnings....

Mike, I think I remember hearing you say Endor was your fun dog (when you had him), to use to punish unsuspecting decoys....:twisted::twisted: That's just mean.....


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Mike, I think I remember hearing you say Endor was your fun dog (when you had him), to use to punish unsuspecting decoys....:twisted::twisted: That's just mean.....


Now I use Carlos for that.:-D He gets very similar reactions form most people.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

that seems to be the weird thing about catching dogs. at least for me. right now we are saving for a bite suit. all we have is a huge ray allen suit that feels like concrete, but its better than nothing. I like to feel the dog and the dog feels me and I always think I want to feel more pain. Then I do something stupid. For instance on saturday I caught my friends dog arras with a puppy sleeve. I never thought an arm could swell so quickly. But then to make it worse I thought, well if I just put a gauntlet on Ill be alright. Now both my arms have punctures in them and are immensely swollen. Ill probably do it again though I dont know why.:roll:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Now I use Carlos for that.:-D He gets very similar reactions form most people.


I SAW that leg bite Carlos has,looks very punishing...I had no real desire to FEEL it..(didn't take the bait) Too weak and OLD now

Took your advice with Luna, progress has been very good, maybe I'll post another crappy video soon


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

sam wilks said:


> that seems to be the weird thing about catching dogs. at least for me. right now we are saving for a bite suit. all we have is a huge ray allen suit that feels like concrete, but its better than nothing. I like to feel the dog and the dog feels me and I always think I want to feel more pain. Then I do something stupid. For instance on saturday I caught my friends dog arras with a puppy sleeve. I never thought an arm could swell so quickly. But then to make it worse I thought, well if I just put a gauntlet on Ill be alright. Now both my arms have punctures in them and are immensely swollen. Ill probably do it again though I dont know why.:roll:


Gotta be careful with the puppy sleeves 
You probably will do it again...

I made a nice leather guard for the guy who works my dog. We are working 3-5 minute grips, his arm is hamburger usually. Funny thing is if the guard slips down a little or she gets into the armpit, I always offer to out her and fix the guard or regrip, and he always says nah....it's ok...I am just trying to be nice cause I know it hurts like hell...and I want to work that bite about 3 times a week if I can, and I know how old it gets working dogs with existing lumps and bruises. Trying to avoid the instinct to slip....My guy is awesome though..a real trooper  thanks Steve!!!

There is a difference now in my mind between feeling the bite, and getting brutalized by it, but like I said I'm old and weak now


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> All of my scars, and the scars from all of the US decoys came from Endor after the injury. Poor Gerben's no equipment leg bite cam from Endor BEFORE his injury. (that may be the real reason that Endor is now missing 6 teeth.....maybe from the wooden shoe ass kicking that followed that bite) LOL, just kidding.
> Believe me, even with a broken jaw bone and 6 missing teeth, that dog can still close his mouth!


Is that strong grip genetic or proper training ???? If its genetic who does it come from


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

If you wear a FR or MR suit for any dog with a powerful grip, you might just as well wear your pyjamas :lol:

We have dogs with huge grips here and with a proper suit, they will bruise you, but no way you'll get really punctured with a proper suit (and a "proper" suit doesn't mean you wear something underneath)


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

andrew kurtowicz said:


> Is that strong grip genetic or proper training ???? If its genetic who does it come from


most likely:both ;-)


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

in holland i had very big problem the decoys at my club only wanted to work the dog on a very short distance because of the exstreme attacks and they prefered biting on the arm because on the leggs even whith proper knpvsuit and thick neopreen under it he still broused you very badly 
for one time thats ok but every week 3 times the dog on the same spot 
believe me they wear the heaviest suit from hanny v nimwegen plus neopreen under still be broused them up badly i was not happy whith that because its effecting the decoyswork 
i was very lucky that bennie wolters personal decoy from hans pegge helped me the last 5 mths 
otherwise i would never got him ready 
seemed that bennie has leggs like concrete or it didnt bother him 
greetings gerben


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

that's why we'res so happy with our decoy, several heavy biting dogs and without complaining twice per week our decoy does the work=D>


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

That's the quality of a good and motivated decoy.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

So after reading some of this, either FR decoys are soft, or French dogs bite soft.....:twisted:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: If you wear a FR or MR suit for any dog with a powerful grip, you might just as well wear your pyjamas 

We have dogs with huge grips here and with a proper suit, they will bruise you, but no way you'll get really punctured with a proper suit (and a "proper" suit doesn't mean you wear something underneath)

I wonder how hard those dogs would be biting if they got wrapped a few times, and lost the ability to bite full, or with a naughty decoy, the ability to breathe. Wrap a dog once or twice and see that panicked look on his face when he cannot release his lower jaw. 

I wonder how many of these big biters would still be big biters with opposition ?? They all seem to come from systems that do not fight the dog much.

I have always wondered this, as it does answer the question how much is genetic, and how much is environment ? I have seen some NASTY stuff done to a dog with a suit wrap.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: If you wear a FR or MR suit for any dog with a powerful grip, you might just as well wear your pyjamas
> 
> We have dogs with huge grips here and with a proper suit, they will bruise you, but no way you'll get really punctured with a proper suit (and a "proper" suit doesn't mean you wear something underneath)
> 
> ...


Maybe this should be done to all dogs as a par for the course. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M85drHessk&feature=related


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I wonder how hard those dogs would be biting if they got wrapped a few times, and lost the ability to bite full, or with a naughty decoy, the ability to breathe. Wrap a dog once or twice and see that panicked look on his face when he cannot release his lower jaw.
> 
> I wonder how many of these big biters would still be big biters with opposition ?? They all seem to come from systems that do not fight the dog much.
> 
> I have always wondered this, as it does answer the question how much is genetic, and how much is environment ? I have seen some NASTY stuff done to a dog with a suit wrap.


I have had Endor on a few Ring decoys who tried their best to rattle him, as well as several other decoys who tried to get in his head. All of them said the same thing......they could not get into his head, the more they tried the harder he bites.
I have seen decoys on the ground with the dog wrapped in a tarp, I have seen him with the rear legs hung over a 6' fence and his testicals being twisted by the decoy and his grip on the decoys bicep was still pefect. I have seen him submerged under water on a bite and come up with a full mouth grip still wagging his tail and fighting harder.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I guess this is where I find out that you are thinking something else when I say wrap. I could just have completely ****ed terminology. I also have seen enough "decoys" to know that they bought a suit, and are fairly athletic.

When the dog goes to bite, you do not let him bite full, and then you give a little twist, and there you go, the dog cannot bite in even if he wanted to. Twist the other way, and you are pinching nostrils. Make a fist, and bring it up towards your shoulder, and you can break teeth.

Watch the films of the FR decoys from the Championships. The dog is never able to bite in. 

We always called this slip, and wrap.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is Endor's pedigree ?? Can you tell me what types of dogs are in there ??


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is Endor's pedigree ?? Can you tell me what types of dogs are in there ??


That's the million dollar question


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is Endor's pedigree ?? Can you tell me what types of dogs are in there ??


Mostly Malinois types of dogs.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Mostly Malinois types of dogs.


And good ones.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Pussies. HA HA


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I have his offical FCI pedigree in my file cabinet. According to it his father is Netchy de Mallassagne, and his mother is Nierlenders Cozzy.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> I have his offical FCI pedigree in my file cabinet. According to it his father is Netchy de Mallassagne, and his mother is Nierlenders Cozzy.


Yeah there might be some confusion Mike about A'tim and Zodt's pedigree's not being correct?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> I have his offical FCI pedigree in my file cabinet. According to it his father is Netchy de Mallassagne, and his mother is Nierlenders Cozzy.


OK so if it's an official FCI pedigree it must be accurate ;-)


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> OK so if it's an official FCI pedigree it must be accurate ;-)


It has to be.


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> OK so if it's an official FCI pedigree it must be accurate ;-)


Yup every single one is 100% accurate......lmfao


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I wonder how hard those dogs would be biting if they got wrapped a few times, and lost the ability to bite full, or with a naughty decoy, the ability to breathe. Wrap a dog once or twice and see that panicked look on his face when he cannot release his lower jaw.


I was talking about the FR or MR SUIT, not about the techniques or the dogs.
And I guess you have to agree that if a dog with a powerful grip gets hold of the decoy in such a suit, that he’ll bite right through.
I wasn’t belittling (hope this a correct English word) the FR dogs but only describing the SUIT. I know they aren’t allowed to show a good grip with the FR or MR decoy techniques.

To answer your question: The dogs I was talking about would handle these situations without any problem. When I say “dogs” I mean “DOGS” and they don’t panic in any situation



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I wonder how many of these big biters would still be big biters with opposition ?? They all seem to come from systems that do not fight the dog much.
> 
> I have always wondered this, as it does answer the question how much is genetic, and how much is environment ? I have seen some NASTY stuff done to a dog with a suit wrap.


I forgive you this remark as you don’t seem to know how we train and how much our dogs are exposed to pressure and opposition. They must be able to handle it even without training. 
If you have to "teach" them to work under pressure, then sooner or later there will be a situation where they will let you down, so no use to start with a dog and invest your time if he doesn’t have the genetic qualities


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I forgive you this remark as you don’t seem to know how we train and how much our dogs are exposed to pressure and opposition

I did not say it properly. I was talking about the same dogs trained with the FR style of suit work. Would they still bite like they do, or would they bite like a FR dog ?? 

How would they do if they were trained as a BR ring dog, and then sent to work with a FR decoy ?? How long would that big bite last ??

This is what I am curious about ??


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I forgive you this remark as you don’t seem to know how we train and how much our dogs are exposed to pressure and opposition
> 
> I did not say it properly. I was talking about the same dogs trained with the FR style of suit work. Would they still bite like they do, or would they bite like a FR dog ??
> 
> ...


I have a dvd somewhere of some FR guys who visited the NVBK club of Germain Powels to test their dogs. The dogs won.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I did not say it properly. I was talking about the same dogs trained with the FR style of suit work. Would they still bite like they do, or would they bite like a FR dog ??


Difficult to say. It should be tried out with some dogs to know that. 



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How would they do if they were trained as a BR ring dog, and then sent to work with a FR decoy ?? How long would that big bite last ??
> 
> This is what I am curious about ??


We trained on FR and MR decoys more then once with Tim and it had no impact whatsoever on his grip. He fought until he got a good hold of the man inside the suit and then of course we called him off because that hurts.
What they said was that it was remarkable how the dog wasn't interested in the suit at all. He wanted the man inside and he kept fighting until he succeeded.

FR suits allow the decoy to move quickly and he needs this for the esquives, but they're not made to let a dog have a good grip


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> I have a dvd somewhere of some FR guys who visited the NVBK club of Germain Powels to test their dogs. The dogs won.


All depends on the quality of the dogs and the decoy...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It would be interesting to put a bunch of NVBK dogs with some FR trainers and see how many maintained that bite over time. Once or twice is not enough.

After a year or more, if they all kept the same bite, it would be interesting, and a big promotion of strong training and genetics. If they changed, it would be interesting to see how. It is just a puzzle that I have in my head.

How much is genetic, and how strong is it really ??


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Martine Loots said:


> All depends on the quality of the dogs and the decoy...


I dont know who the dogs were, nor the French guys who came to test the dogs. It was kinda like the NVBK guys were saying "Do what you want to the dogs, test them your way" and the did. I cant recall every dogs performance but I remember liking what I saw and remember seeing the French guys being impressed.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> It would be interesting to put a bunch of NVBK dogs with some FR trainers and see how many maintained that bite over time. Once or twice is not enough.
> 
> After a year or more, if they all kept the same bite, it would be interesting, and a big promotion of strong training and genetics. If they changed, it would be interesting to see how. It is just a puzzle that I have in my head.
> 
> How much is genetic, and how strong is it really ??


It would also be interesting to put some FR dogs up against the environmental stresses of the NVBK and also put a muzzel on the FR dogs and see if they guard the object from a guy in a t-shirt and shorts.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I agree, that would be interesting, but the bite has always been a bit of curiosity to me. How much is training, how much is genetic, and how does the percentages vary.

This was not really a FR vs BR thing, as much as a thought process about ways to try and test how strong a genetic trait is, like biting. I have no doubt that good dogs do well, my curiosity is to see if this type of test would really show something, or if it would be BS as a test.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How much is genetic, and how strong is it really ??


To me a good grip is genetic but can be maintained or ruined depending on the (good or bad) decoy work.

I know the good MR handlers over here very often train on the BR suit to keep the good grips of their dogs.

I'm sure no BR dog can show the same quality of grip on a MR or FR suit, because it wouldn't be possible for the decoy to undergo this. Also it would be difficult for the dogs with the esquives.
But it goes the other way round too. Train a FR or MR dog with a genetic good grip on a BR suit for a while and it will come out.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Would the dog continue to try and fill his mouth, or would he give up on it ??

I know things can be "ruined" but the idea is to see if the dog ever stops trying to do so, or if over time, he stops trying.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Would the dog continue to try and fill his mouth, or would he give up on it ??
> 
> I know things can be "ruined" but the idea is to see if the dog ever stops trying to do so, or if over time, he stops trying.


For a dog that goes for the "man" and not for the suit, it's not about filling his mouth but about getting hold of the body inside, so yes he'll continue to do so.


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## Remco Fox (Apr 1, 2010)

Martine Loots said:


> If you wear a FR or MR suit for any dog with a powerful grip, you might just as well wear your pyjamas :lol:
> 
> We have dogs with huge grips here and with a proper suit, they will bruise you, but no way you'll get really punctured with a proper suit (and a "proper" suit doesn't mean you wear something underneath)


nothing better than a handmade knpv suit i had one made for myself it fits perfect and you feel a dogs bite perfectly i want too feel tje dog so i can help him with his bite


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