# Need new 24hr backpack



## Misty Wegner

So I am in need of a new 24hr backpack for SAR.. My last did not have hydration and carrying water around in bottles is a pita.. I am wondering what everyone else uses and why they like it... I've thought about the Osprey Aura and the Camelback Pursuit... I know the Osprey would have enough room but not sure about the hydration compared to the Camelback.. The Camelback I think might have enough room, but... 

So, those of you who are willing to let me know your preference and why, it would be much appreciated


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## Sarah Platts

For mine, I use the Camelback Aventura which would cover for practically all the 'wilderness' type searches I've been to. (Virginia really doesn't have wilderness like what you find out west) It had room for the gear I wanted. I had wondered how to purify water if there was still 'good' water in the reservoir and solved that by adding a gallon ziplock to do the purification and then I could just pour it into the main bag. 

Either pack looks o.k. but it would depend on how it fits on your back.


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## Geoff Empey

Depends what you want to carry and how much hydration you need. I don't do SAR but used to spend a pile of time in the bush. The 1litre and 2 lt Camelbacks were never enough I'd really look at 3 litres + for 24 hour sustainability even 3 litres for me didn't seem like a lot. 

As for packs that have hydration I'd be looking for something with molle that way you can expand or minimize your pack depending on your mission. Camelbak makes the MULE which is 3 litres and has a small compartment for energy bars/trial mix and maybe a decent rain poncho. Something bigger is Camelbak's miltac HAWG, with enough room for all above maybe even an extra smaller bladder for h2o plus first aid kit, radio, gps etc. The HAWG is molle compatible too. I don't know if you are exposed to sub freezing temps but if you use a hydration bladder it might be worth it to check into a insulated tubing. The tubes freeze up pretty quick and are a real PITA to thaw, baring that you can hold the bite valve up and open the valve with your hand and the tubing will empty back into the reservoir. 

There is a lot of other products out there from other companies and suppliers. I've bought a lot of stuff from LA Police gear and they have a huge selection some products with pressurized bladders and very sophisticated packs. Though I only have experience with Camelbak so can't really comment on the other stuff they have. 

http://www.lapolicegear.com/hysy.html


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## Nancy Jocoy

I like the true north packs for field use. I have a light pack (spyder gear plus hydration) for just about everything and a larger pack (fireball) for longer missions/inclement weather We rarely carry a full 24 hour pack, but the gear is in the truck -- for the test I just used a standard backpacking pack which is available to me if I need it.

The side pockets and the SAR case carry a lot of gear in addition to the main compartment which also is set up for lashing. On the sypyder gear I normally carry all my dog stuff in the added hydration case and quart water bottles in the side pockets. My preference over the bladder.


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## Misty Wegner

Thanks Nancy.. You mainly do HRD correct? So a smaller pack would make sense (No need to carry extra gear for the missing).. But I like having a smaller pack available for HRD, or if other members (navigators) are able to carry the extra.. 

Outside of comfort and the ability to hold the required gear (which my other pack served faithfully in) the hydration system is important.. Preferences on those anyone? 

Sarah, I think the packs you mentioned are about the same size as the ones I mentioned. Good to know the 24lr size Camelback can carry standard gear along with the 3L water. I do need to try them on..


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## Misty Wegner

Thanks Geoff.. I agree that 3L of water can go quickly, especially when carrying for a dog on a hot day and a long trail..


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## Geoff Empey

Misty Wegner said:


> Thanks Geoff.. I agree that 3L of water can go quickly, especially when carrying for a dog on a hot day and a long trail..


Yeah really boils down to how much support you have. 3 litres for both you and the dog for 24 hours is NOT going to cut it. In my experience 3 litres isn't enough for me on a hot day let alone sustaining the dog to. 

A pressurized system like the Geigerrig setup would be better for giving h20 to the dog in my experience. There is a lot less waste using something pressurized for the dog. With my Camelbaks you have to squeeze the bladder while squeezing the bite valve with the other hand or tip it up for using gravity, it is a pain in the butt. fwiw I use a garden sprayer for h20 for the dog in training that I carry in my vehicle, and with the pressure you can just point and shoot the h20 into the dogs mouth so no chance of cross contamination if you use the same source. 

Not saying a camelbak is a bad system, far from that to me they are great. Just not something I'd want to share with my dog.on a regular basis.


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## John Michaels

I'd suggest the FAST Pack EDC or the Lite Speedboth by one of my favorite gear manufacturers...TAD Gear www.tripleaughtdesign.com


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## John Michaels

My two cents...

I'd suggest the FAST Pack EDC or the Lite Speedboth by one of my favorite gear manufacturers...TAD Gear www.tripleaughtdesign.com

The FAST Pack is a littel big for a EDC, IMHO which I would use the Litespeed for but I think the FAST pack would be the perfect pack for what you need. 

The FAST Pack is 35L pack that has a removable HPE Framesheet, The built-in hdryation pouch is great and when not in use can be used to hold a small laptop or tablet. The pack is covered in PALS webbing so it can be configured to suit a variety of mission requirements. The beaver tail is great for carrying veritcal items such as a rifle, ski poles or whatever else you can think of. The flashlight cave is a great palce to stash things like keys or a falshlight that needs to be accsed without haveing to remove the pack. The pack has QR system that allows the wearer to quickly dump the pack. The pack has a removable padded waist belt that has 2 rows of PALS webbing that I use to attach 2 pistol mags and a multitool on the right side, on the left side I attach my IFAK and CAT.
When needed I have used the lower straps to lash climbing ropes to the bottom of the pack. This is a great pack, and I cant say enough about it. I have even used it on a 3 day mountaneering trek in the winter.

The only downside to the pack is that it does not have a rain shell so I would consider getting one unless you plan on putting all your gear inside a water tight bag. The pack does have 2 drain holes at the bottom incase you are caught in arain storm at least the pack wont trap the water inside.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

check out this blog for more awesome gear!

www.SPEARtacticalreviews.wordpress.com


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## Nancy Jocoy

I do HRD but most of the live searches around here are 4-6 hours before you return to IC at the most, though mountain night searches in the winter do require more gear.

The true north fireball is 1200 cubic inches, which is about the same size as the camelback aventura with room to carry more in side pockets and cases and also has a 3L hydration pocket..... I have been doing this since 1999 and have yet to be involved in or know of a local search where the crew is actually out for 24 hours (even on multi-day searches). But I do have a Jansport 6 liter pack for backpacking......got it on sale at Campmor. Not sure what type it was.......that is the only pack I have that would probably fit all that stuff NASAR wants; I took my SAR II test using an old REI external frame pack (not THAT was not fun off trail)


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## Misty Wegner

Thanks John I will look at the links.. 

Nancy, lol! So true about carrying everything itemized and 'required' gear! We've had some 16hr days out here, terrain can get very rugged fast. But I do not believe any overnighter have been called for - but I'm just figuring it will be me with no gear for what I need when it happens, haha.. 

Seriously though, I think 1200-1400cu will be adequate - with - a water bladder which is where I'm not familiar with. I packed a friends Camelback filled to see how it felt, but no gear was added and his pack didn't have the room for any gear anyhow... 

Now, if I have to pull my pack and turn it upside down to water my dog that ain't gonna be to much fun :/ Might end being easy for me and my needs but still packing water for my girl via bottles(which is what I was trying to omit)...


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## John Michaels

Misty Wegner said:


> but still packing water for my girl via bottles(which is what I was trying to omit)...


Whatabout haveing your dog carry it's own food and water in a doggy hiking pack?


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## Sarah Platts

BTW, a cheap trip the medics use to fluid load a patient is to wrap a BP cuff around the bag and inflate it. Not saying to carry a BP cuff but you might be able to take the idea and rig up something that provides compression from the stuff you have to carry anyway. Or not, it's just something I was taking a SWAG at.


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## Misty Wegner

Interesting idea Sarah... I will have to try it sometime during training trails.. 

My dog is a trailing dog and her sole job is to focus on the scent of the subject she is to find.. I don't want to unnecessarily tire her out further (or get her snagged in brush, dead fall etc) by carrying gear... 

I'm just being a weenie.. I have to carry her water either way, which is fine, but I was trying to find a way to keep from carrying extra gear via water bottles... The blood pressure cuff or some other sort of Macgyver'd rig might work.. Hmm


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## Nancy Jocoy

LOL, one of our teammates figured out that a Claxton Fruitcake had the requisite number of calories for the "food" portion - AND - you could probably kill a bear or other wild critter with it.


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## Misty Wegner

Bwaaahaaa!!! A fruit cake! Probably weighed as much as the trail mix or protein bars she would have carried, albeit possibly less bulk.. Too funny!


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## Geoff Empey

Misty Wegner said:


> Now, if I have to pull my pack and turn it upside down to water my dog that ain't gonna be to much fun :/ Might end being easy for me and my needs but still packing water for my girl via bottles(which is what I was trying to omit)...


As long as you can get the bite valve below the reservoir and the tube is full you can get flow. It's not as hard as I described it, just a bit finicky. Once you are done you need to get the bite valve up or it could empty your reservoir or pull the valve right off, if you get it snagged on something and not notice it until you are miles away. 

I'm thinking that maybe if you put a smaller 1.5-2 litre reservoir on your chest either by molle or a separate h20 pack that is only for the dog might be a solution. That way you can squeeze it like a bagpipe for pressure for the dog and keep the other reservoir in your back pack for your own h20. Just thinking out loud.


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## Misty Wegner

Using a Molle with a smaller bladder for the dog is a good idea.. Lots to think on and hopefully make a more practical way of watering both of us ;o).. I've heard it is wise to 'blow' the water back into the reservoir when in freezing conditions so as not to freeze the tube and possibly rupture it.. Now I've got ideas rolling around.. Thanks everyone...


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## Bob Scott

If you have an outfitters shop near they can tell you the best and lightest.

My son does a lot of back packing in the Smokies, App trail, Rockies, etc and it's not uncommon for him to be in the woods on his own for a week or more.

Functional and light weigh are premium for him.

I will say that some of his backpacking gear has some :-o WTF price tags.


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## rick smith

re : "WTF price tags."
- for SURE .... saw some of those the last time i was looking for a decent flashlight ](*,)

i still have some of my old navy gear ... amazing that we were able to complete any operation with such 'primitive' gear //lol//
- WAY before the camelback was 'invented'


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## Nancy Jocoy

Crossed the Rockies on a 10 speed, when I was younger. Felt pretty good till I met a man who circled the globe on a 1 speed, now you need 21 speeds and a superlight bike to make it around the corner.


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## Misty Wegner

Well covered wagons were the fashion a ways back... And shoot, leather sandals were pretty efficient for all day wear over rough terrain... People male do with what they have, but I am definitely glad I live in a more technologically advanced time - at least as far as clothing and equipment (could do without alot of the electronics)... 

Definitely makes me realize what a weenie I am compared to my forefathers, lol


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## Bob Scott

"Definitely makes me realize what a weenie I am compared to my forefathers, lol"

Pretty much a given for all of us. :grin: 

My great uncle Edgar was pretty much a hermit. No education, no electricity, a pot belly stove in the middle of a two room cabin, no plumbing and got around with a mule and a broken down old wagon. It was updated with car wheels and tires though. 

He was very proud when he got a pump from the well put in his kitchen.

We had to see how it worked EVERY time we visited.


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## Misty Wegner

Too funny! But putting car wheels on the wagon was smart ;o) 

I'm going to try some packs on next time I'm in town (I live rural) and see what feels best.... And fits in my budget (the triple aught bags are awesome but very expensive)...


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## Sarah Platts

Take a 5lb sack of flour or sugar (put in a plastic bag first) and see what it feels like with a little weight in it.


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## Misty Wegner

Good idea Sarah! Better than emptying contents of my purse/bag to put in, lol.


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## Sarah Platts

I was scrolling around checking out Nancy's True North packs and found two other companies that see to make a good product. One is call Mystery Ranch and the other is Wolfpack. A bit more pricey than True North but both seem to have good reviews. I'm looking at the Mystery Ranch Hotshot with a hydration pack. Right now I do what Nancy does and have 2 different packs but may make a better deal in the long run with one frame that you can add or retract from. With Mystery Ranch you can add a crewpack onto the frame fast enough to make it a 3 day or backcountry pack without having to duplicate supplies in 2 different packs.


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## Misty Wegner

I ended up getting an Osprey Mantra 34 and it has plenty of room, light and thus far works well...i like the idea of adding Molle packs as needed should more room be necessary.. Have you settled on one yet Sarah?


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## Sarah Platts

I am seriously looking at the Mystery Ranch Hotspot with a 3L hydration sleeve. Although 2L is probably enough but can use the 3L (who says you have to fill it all the way up?) *if* I need that much liquid.

It's a bit heavier empty but like the overall construction. My problem is I don't carry backpacks much and when I do for any length of time I end up with sore shoulders and back muscles. Most of my problem is that the standard day packs place the weight to high up the back and isn't supported properly - even with a waist belt - with most of the weight hanging off the shoulders.. This unit moves it down onto the hips more. I was looking at the True North packs but the shoulder straps and hip belt just don't seem as hefty. 

The pack needs to be stable enough to not swing about since because the working gait of my trailing dogs are slow running or fast jogging. Nothing wears the shoulders out faster than weight sliding around on your back. Since MR is used by fire crews who are bending, climbing, and scrambling about I think they have the sliding weight issue nailed down. As much as I like the internet, I wish I could find a place that had them all and I could go do a side by side comparison.


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## Misty Wegner

Sounds like the pace of your dogs is the pace of mine... Have had many tell me they won't flank for me because of the speed.. Thus far, my Osprey rets well on my hips and doesn't sway... But training is different then deployment and I haven't deployed with the pack, so, who knows.. Keep us posted if you do go with the MR - would love to know how they work out


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## Misty Wegner

Oooookkkkkk... So, 2yrs down the road and close to 30 missions later I have to reconsider.. My Osprey has worked well, but after having several 4+ mile trails over RUGGED and uphill /downhill conditions, I have to reconsider how my pack(s) work. 

I have been looking at the Aarn backpacks and really like the idea and concept. My girl is fast moving so there is constant shifting of the pack which is uncomfortable over longer distances, especially in rugged terrain (urban I would carry a light pack so no worries there)... 

So, does anyone have experience with the Aarn backpacks? https://www.aarnpacks.com/loads limo Lots of reviews give great hope... This link is just to the site albeit I believe to a given pack, but not necessarily the one I am interested in..


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## Sarah Platts

https://www.aarnpacks.com/load-limo

Your link wasn't working. Not to pick on your choice but your 24hr pack looks more like a 3 day (or longer) pack.

Exactly how much stuff do you carry?


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## Misty Wegner

http://www.equipoutdoors.co.nz/contents/en-us/p268_Aarn_Marathon_Magic_33.html

Maybe this link will work.. But again, it was link to the aarn packs, not necessarily the one I will get, although the above link might be interesting and is 22L to 33L between front and back load


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## Sarah Platts

My question, based on how you have told me you jog with your dogs, is if the pack will maintain position. I liked the look of the 'guiding light' pack. For me the profile looked less ungainly and appears to have been designed for folks who are actively using their hands/arms which you would be with a trailing dog.

https://www.aarnpacks.com/load-limo (your link didn't work for me)

I had a problem with the weight distribution when having to jog behind a dog. Lots of shoulder pain and ache ( I guess I'm getting old), I ended up moving from the camelback to the Tru-North Defender. I liked the idea of the water being on my hips and off my shoulders. I liked the idea of modular packing so I could add or remove gear without having to carry one pack for an urban search and another if it was more rural. Coupled with the GO gear bag, It works for me. My only issue is the weight of the empty pack but with that heavy hip belt, I don't notice even loading on the full 3L of water ( I found it better to just load with bottles of water). I did do a bit of surgery on it and removed the excess closed cell padding that TN liked the pack with.


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## Misty Wegner

Right, the jogging and the shoulder pain, especially since I have a bad left arm. This pack will be for rural only, and only when the extra gear is needed, like in winter etc.. 

I want the weight on my hips and evenly distributed which the aarn packs seem to be.. I will check out the TN packs again..


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## Misty Wegner

How much an you fit in the defender? I prefer lighter obviously, but since I live in mountain territory, there are essentials that are required for back country.. More than I want to carry, but until I have reliable flankers (who can keep up with the essential gear) consistently, I have to be responsible and carry it..


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## Sarah Platts

Ideally, each person should be carrying their own "essential" gear. 

I remember one gal telling me a story where they were packing in for a search. One guy was real strong and offered to carry the extra gear. Everyone was loading him up except for this girl who opted to keep her pack. Wellll, .... the group separated and at the bivouac, the only person who had stuff was this girl. She says a lot of folks learned their lesson that night.

Anyway, back to your situation. I had a problem with the jogging causing the pack weight to bounce and pull down on my shoulders which was causing me shoulder aches. I suppose if you do it all the time, you get used to it but would rather not have to deal with it in the first place. I spent months looking at packs and identifying my wants and needs. I wanted the bulk of the weight off my shoulders. Had to have a legitimate waist belt. Carrying a pack while walking is one thing, carrying one while jogging is another so had to be able to control the pitch and yaw. Able to add or remove gear bags instead of packing or unpacking. Ideally able to access by just reaching around without having to remove the pack. Have the ability to add pouches for quick need items. Don't have a lot of shoulder meat or muscle bulk and dealing with rotator cuff/ shoulder issues due to years of the dog dragging on me so fit is important. Had to be able to wear easily or adjustable to handle a variety of clothing changes due to the seasons. Looked at what I needed to carry/had to have and how much room that took. Then I went back and looked at the packs again.

I looked at the spyder but it didn't seem to have the room. I was all set to buy one from mystery ranch but it had the camelback issue I was trying to get away from.

I finally opted on the TN Defender. Mostly because the water weight (which is the bulk of the weight in a pack) was located at the waist/hips. The harness straps are wide, and you can cinch them into place and it has a really, B-I-G hip belt . I also didn't like having to take the camelback pack off to access something. Great for a hike but less great for SAR. I wanted to be able to reach around and grab stuff out or have the front pouches to keep the hot stuff like the gps, scent pad, flagging tape, small flashlight, pad/pencil, ect. When I jog or run, the pack will shift some but all the weight bounce is landing on my hips instead of my shoulders. The straps (being new) did rub the sides of my neck - due to the jogging - but I was wearing a t-shirt and not the collared shirt I normally do on a search. Once I tried it with the collared shirt, it wasn't a problem. Other problems was the pouches TN sell are normally used for water bottles which I wasn't going to use for that purpose. I was hoping to be able to cinch them shut to keep the contents from bouncing out but you can't close the tops all the way. I'm now looking at sewing on some Velcro at the top to Velcro shut. I'm sure there are pouches that have a lid or zipper which would be better. My other issue was TN lined the entire water section, all the sides and bottom, with closed cell padding. I'm not sure why they did that but I opened up a seam and removed most of the side foam to 'open' up the space more. You can use the 3L water bladder but normally don't need "that" much water, so I just put some water bottles there. The GO pack is where I would keep stuff for the longer, more rural searches. Snap on, Snap off. No more repacking. If I have to take rain gear or jacket, the design allows me to just secure it to the back of the straps by the pack.

The funny thing is as I'm re-reading this its like I bought a pack and then immediately ripped it apart and made a new pack. You would think I would have just bought something that fit the bill to begin with without all the re-work. I realized the issue with packs is that most sar folks are walking but I'm jogging. The sizes of the various components are on the website but you have to look at the pile of what you want to take and see exactly how much room it takes. I have 3 stacks: must have, would like to have, and nice to have. You also have the mountain environment subject to faster changes of temp/weather then I see here in coastal Virginia.

I did throw a 2 bivy saks in there. One for me, one for the dog or ideally we would double up for warmth.


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## Misty Wegner

I should have been clearer on the 'essentials'.. I agree, each person should carry their own essential gear.. I was referring more to the gear that is on most team checklist, but is used on the rare occasion (if at all). I am bit neurotic and have edc's I really do carry everyday, as well as my edc for SAR.

I have the same problem with the pitch and yaw which is exactly why I am looking for something that better balances the weight. I did like the TN packs, and will compare them to the Aarn and see if I can find 'exactly' what I like.. More likely, I will cannibalize and redo until I get what I want from different packs. Bearing weight on the hips makes a ton more sense then the shoulders, especially as a trailing dog handler where we are pulled through everything and need those arms free and uninjured.

I think the closed cell foam in the packs you took out was because the TN packs are mostly made from the fireman perspective, so heat would make drinking water more like a hot tea.. The closed foam might help keep the water 'cooler' then not.

My search continues...


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## Misty Wegner

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered the Magic Mountain 33L bag... I like the TN packs, but could not see how it would make my load easier to carry when having to haul my full pack.. Modified packs or urban packs are a breeze, but when going in deep mountains for possibly /most likely hypothermic hunter, skier, etc, awfully pack is necessary.. This pack has a learning curve so I will repost once I've figured it out and worn it full for some time


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## Sarah Platts

The terrain and needs of the specific environment searched does govern all. Feedback would be great to see how it works for you especially with your shoulder situation.


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## Bob Scott

My son does a lot of backpacking, predominantly on the Appalachian trail, the Smoky Mnts and the Rockies.

Light weight is supers primary as he takes a lot of equiptment on these trips so I don't know if this sort of pack would work for SAR purposes.


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## sefi sahar

our SAR team at my company where uses salewa pure 25 for mission of lost persons and cadaver searches and we loved it very much.
compact, easy to use, easy to attach gear to from the outer side and easy to wire things threw like hidranation strew and radio. its durable easy to fix and most important its not intafering with your movment threw narrow passages and threw bush. now we are using source backpack hybrid with vest which is taylor made for us i dont think its available in your country.
i am personally prefer to take larger backpack for extra water becuse of the dog for missions that can take my to an unknown direction. so i use 45 -70 liters backpacks for such missions...depend on wheater and terrain but thats my own preference.


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## Misty Wegner

OK have had the packs for a few days and have done several miles (a couple of times) intermittent jogging, fast walking, up hills and rough terrain, only loaded to about 16lbs (much less water than I would take normally) and I am LOVING them.. They don't shift or sway zero pressure on my neck or shoulders and truly don't feel the weight... Afterwards, the legs feel like you had weight, but not during if that makes sense... I had to bend over and pick burrs out of my dogs fur for like 10 minutes (grrr) and never was uncomfortable with pack or it being in the way... So far soo very good


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## Bob Scott

Excellent!


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## Misty Wegner

OK, have had a 2 day, 9 + miles each day in rugged, mountainous, slag/slash/dead fall /slippery terrain search for a hunter. The packs were flipping awesome! Zero and I do mean zero shoulder, neck or back pain.. I never felt the weight other than legs getting more tired from griding up and down hills (197 floors per the fitbit each day). Needed gear was up front and other than having to roll under barbed wire fences repeatedly (and then sometimes having to take the pack off because the strands were so tight together it wouldn't fit through) it never was burdensome.. 

I do believe I will save up for the Featherlite because it has a wider hip belt and while mine was not uncomfortable, I did have to shift my belt gear at times... Anyhow, just wanted to update


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## Sarah Platts

Sounds nice. So it's well designed and well made?


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## Misty Wegner

For the length of time I've owned it and a few mission days, I would say yes, but time will tell overall.. Everything seems very secure and well made..


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