# Drug dog Class



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I finally have procurred enough dogs to start my drug detection class, scheduled to begin, June 19th. I'll have 6 green dogs and two trained dogs with new handlers. The two new handlers with trained dogs will attend the 1st week, as it's mostly academics, then they will sit out and rejoin the class for weeks 7,8,9 and 10. The other six handlers, 5 Troopers (my department) and 1 city officer from a nearby city all have green dogs and will attend the entire 10 weeks. It's a good deal for any city, if I'm in class, they can attend free of charge on a space available basis. The class will have 3 Labs, 1 Golden, 1 Chessie, 2 GSD's and 1 Rottie. One Lab and the Chessie are already trained. I have 3 classes scheduled after this drug class. An explosives detection, patrol dog and another drug class. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

My long awaited drug dog class started yesterday. The first week is primarily acedemics, although we do take the dogs out and play just a little. Today they got to practice thier grooming steps and health checkpoints. They we played a little hide and seek with their toy/ball/tug etc. 10 more weeks and a few more drug dogs will hit the road.

DFrost


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

What other kind of academic stuff are you covering? Drug and/or dog stuff?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Academics include, care of dog, kennel and equipment, health, first aid, principles of conditioning (a short behavior course), a short course on olfaction, administrative stuff ie, uniforms, weapons and equipment etc. It takes up most of the first week. We do have some rapport building exercises as well, as some of the handlers didn't receieve thier assigned dog until the first day of class.

DFrost


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I am getting those flash backs again David, Ha!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

David, do the new handlers train the dog or do they have to learn how to handle a drugsdog?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Selena, for two of the handlers, this is thier second dog. The other handlers are all new. All the dogs are untrained, so they actually get to train the dogs, I just provide the guidance. I do conduct a 4 week handler's class, on the rare occasion I have a vacant trained dog (single purpose drug detector only). During that class, I really try to give the handler as much information as I can on how the dog got to the trained condition that he is in. At least it gives them the idea of how the dog was trained. I really don't like doing it that way, but as we all know we don't always get what we want.

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

<<<I am getting those flash backs again David, Ha! >>>

Phil, just for your benefit; today we covered absolute threashold, JND's Threshold shift, source and point of saturation. Of course we also covered the training model, Sd - R - Rf. 

They (the students) thought I was an absolute genius I tell ya. ha ha

How's that for a flashback.

DFrost


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

I´m asking ´cause here all dog are all trained and the handler have to learn how to deal with a trained dog (PSD´s and all sorts of searchdogs).

In the case the whole combination must learn the job, i think you´ve short classes...sorry.

PSD here (in our region) are pre trained KNPV, and the slight differences in the PSD programmes are easy compensated. The handler to be has an trial period of a few months (learning by seeing/experiencing decoy work/ work alongside with an very experienced handler on the street), than he gets a dog. Both get trained on the PSD programme for about 2 mo, they get certified.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I realize they are different, but our drug detector class is 10 weeks. Explosives classes are 15 weeks and PSD, is 18 weeks. Good dogs and good training, you really don't need much more time than that. I don't do the short classes for explosives or PSD. 

DFrost


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

I mean that 10 wks IMO is short to train both the dog *and *the handler.. 

If I compare it to the PSD in our region the training time is from 6 mo-1 yr for the combination is good enough to work on the streets.


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH, Those were the days!!  How I still miss them so!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Selena, perhaps it's a terminology problem we are having here, but the 10 weeks, is just a single purpose drug dog. I really dont know what more I could teach a drug dog with 8 more weeks of training. The PSD, or as I call it the Patrol dog is 18 weeks. Four and 1/2 months is quite a long time when you train 5 days a week. I've always found 10 weeks was plenty of time to train a dog to find 5 or 6 different drug odors. Understand the handler has already completed police training, that was 26 weeks, this is just dog and handler training. 

DFrost


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## Scott Dunmore (May 5, 2006)

David,
Is there any economic pressure to use dogs that could go on to be dual certified? I would imagine departments with any budget concerns would be keen to have a handler whose dog could patrol as well as detect.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Understand the handler has already completed police training, that was 26 weeks, this is just dog and handler training.
> 
> DFrost


I guess all police education is shorter in the US.

Here police academy is 4 yr, they learn academics 3 months, work for 3 months, academics 3 months etc.
Before a cop can become a handler,they must have at least a few years of street experience and have a certain rank (hoofdagent).


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Oh i talked this topic over with my husband. 

The dogs who are bought for his department (with another words the ones he thinks are suitable): 90 % is PH1 certified bought(average 436 out of 440 points, 2 went to the nationals). With an experienced handler, it takes 3 mo. to get the combination certified on the street. With a novice handler: see my previous post.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Scott,

It depends on the objective of the department. Well, that's the standard answer, actually it depends on thier fear of liability. With our department, they prefer more single purpose dogs, ie drug or explosives detector. There is more interest in dual purpose lately. Economics have not really been part of their decision making. It's been more of a traditional assignment of dogs within the department. It takes time and logical thinking, which at times can be in short supply, to change tradition. 

DFrost


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## Scott Dunmore (May 5, 2006)

David,
In your experience, do the single purpose dogs of breeds that wouldn't be suitable for patrol work (like labs and chessies) have better success with the detection work than the GSD and Malinois? 
Although, I bet you see some Chessies who would give a good account of themselves in patrol work...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Scott, in my experience, the dogs are selected based on behavior specific tests that we give. To that end, any dog that is selected is expected to perform equally. Labs and Chessies, which I do use, certainly make good single purpose detectors. As you pointed out, some Chessies would hold thier own. I have one that is a particular handful. I don't think however that they make better dogs, certainly as good, but not better than GSD's or Mals. 

DFrost


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

After some rough spots, some unbelievable heat this year, we are finally in the certification stage of training with this drug class. I lost one dog, (GSD) just couldn't take the pressure after about 4 weeks, replaced it with a Mal that has done well. Yesterday we did vehicle certification; 3 sets of 5 vehicle. A target on 2 each of the 5 in two sets, one vehicle in the third set had the distractors of plactic bags and uncirculated currency. The dogs hit all the drug odors and did not respond to the plastic bags or the uncirculated currency. Today we'll do certification in building search. It's been a good class, but to be honest I'm glad to get rid of them and get them back to work. This class will graduate with 1 GSD, 1 Mal, 1 Rottie, 1 Golden and 3 Labs and a Chessie. The GSD and Mal will also be patrol dog trained. Now I can start getting ready for the explosives detector class scheduled to begin in late September.

DFrost


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I am a little luckier than you this time David! I only have a 1 dog class. A really hyper ball driven 3yo male yellow lab. We started classroom yesterday morning and and in the afternoon started playing hide and seek with the ball in the high school on different surfaces and locations, he fears nothing. He easily located the boll in the football locker room amongst the players smelly clothes easily each time he was sent to find the reward.
He has his physical tomorrow at request of the PD. Some of my former handlers have made contact with the handler and gave war stories of the dreaded boxes and throw chain!!
With the drive of this dog and the eagerness of this handler, I hope to have them thru in 6 weeks.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Good luck with him. If you have any of that type of dog laying around that needs a good home, uhhhh well just give me a call. ha ha.

DFrost


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I am a little luckier than you this time David, I only have a 1 dog class! I have a 3yo hyper ball driven yellow lab. He was donated and what a find! He passed his physical and yesterday we started classroom in the morning and in the afternoon went to the High School and started hiding the ball again in different locations with different floor surfaces, he performed just great! I took him to the football locker room and hid the ball amongst the smelly clothes and he located his ball easily each time.
A couple of my former handlers contacted the handler of this dog and told him war stories of the dreaded boxes and my famous throw chain!
With the drive of this dog and the eagerness of this handler I should be finished with them in about 6 weeks.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

<<<dreaded boxes and my famous throw chain!>>

Sorry had to laugh. I thought I was the only antique around that still used a throw chain. I still have a silver dollar I used at the dog school in the 60's. Can't identify one detail on it. I laugh at the number of man hours I've used up having students look for my "throw dollar". ha ha.

It's great to get a donated dog like that. I secretly like to rub them in the faces of these 5,000 dollar green dogs. While I recognize the chance of finding a dual purpose like that is very remote, there are a lot of single purpose animals out there if one is willing to look. I'm sure he'll do well in class.

DFrost


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I do too! You should have seen the white shepherd I tested last year, he was donated because the owner stated "He has gotten to big for the yard".? He had drive out of this world! Adjusted to every new surface and situation easily,if my current partner was not so young I would have taken him for myself!


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

Graduated my drug dog team today! A couple of cocky individuals those 2! I got to throw the chain 1 last time Friday when Cocky #1 reached for the ball before his partner finished going to final response, oh I just loved it!!
My early christmas present! My chief giving me the number of 2 more departments requesting teams so there goes my first of the year just kicking back!! 
Gotta LUV those administraters!!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I know exactly what you mean. I've got 1 bomb dog in training. Supposed to have it done before Jan 20, Inaugeration day (Governor) I also am training a new handler on a previously trained dog. the previous handler had some personal problems and had to give it up. 

I'm supposed to start a patrol dog class in February, we'll see how that goes. I have to schedule a new Bloodhound sometime in the next year and probably a drug dog class as I may have to retire 3 dogs this year. Two years left before I retire. I think they are really trying to get all they can out of me. 

Glad your class finished and who needs to relax, ha ha.

DFrost


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks! Seems you are going to have another busy year! I am looking at a springer spaniel tomorrow, by the telephone interview she may be a good find just hope she passses I hate running all over the place trying to locate good prospects.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Is this class you're doing only for LE or anyone who wants to do it?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

If you're asking me, I only do LE.

DFrost


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I am doing LE. I do have on occasion civilian trainers either go through a class or observe one from start to finish.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Before a cop can become a handler,they must have at least a few years of street experience and have a certain rank (hoofdagent).


My county requires 9 years of street experience before being K9. Every department is different. I know one department in the area is 11 years. An officer from Largo was telling me that the only HANDLER test harder than K9 is SWAT.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Here is a question for David, Phil, and Mike. As a breeder, I like to check the abilities of my stock. To do this, I generally find someone that Is reputable in their field and give them a dog. Obviously, I am not going to send a meathead. I don't know if you have ever worked with the terriers, airedales specifically, but they tend to be hard headed. They can be led but not pushed. One thing my dogs have yet to do is detection or police work and I would like to see how they fair. Just to peak your interest, here is an email that one owner recieved from a well known pro trainer and breeder of retrievers.

"Don: i don't want your head to swell too much from this, but this is a copy of a message i got from blank's wife Blank about Buck today. i copied them on your last message on the board about Buck and she asked what LOL meant. i told her lots of luck, or love, depending on your persuasion. this is what she responded with: "I always knew it as lots of love, not luck, in this case I will have to agree with Dave Morgan. Buck is not luck. Buck is doing great- THAT
NOSE! I heard Graham telling a potential new Airedale client that Buck
has the best nose on a dog in all of his 25 years of training. That
should make you happy. He has been doing great, but he still is a puppy-
it is so easy to forget when he performs the way he does." oh well. Jim"

Now my question is, any one interested? I will post a picture of the last one I gave to a shutzhund trainer. The picture is of HC Curtis at 7 1/2 mo. My email is [email protected].










Here is a picture of the one being discussed in the email at just over 12 mo. Totally different venues.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Qoute Don T:
"They can be led but not pushed".
The perfect candidate for motivational training! :lol: :wink: 

On of you guys need to take Don up on his offer. You may even see a new possible PSD in the making. Power, drive, quickness, intensity, atheltic ability!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Bob, from reading your posts, you seem to be a terrier man. You mentioned a Border terrier. Dow you know Wayne Waggoner or Henry Johnson? I believe they were going to bring the working Border Terriers back.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

When I was still at the dog school, we trained a few Airedales. I found them to be an excellant, very solid performer. It was in the 70's just before we started importing Mals. The supply of dogs were very short. We tried some Dobes and Airedales. The dobes were a total waste of time. The Airedales did exceptionally well, but the supply just wasn't there. At least not at the price the military was willing to pay.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Bob, from reading your posts, you seem to be a terrier man. You mentioned a Border terrier. Dow you know Wayne Waggoner or Henry Johnson? I believe they were going to bring the working Border Terriers back.


Love the terriers! My 12 yr old JRT is the only one I have left. I'm getting to old to be digging 3-4 4-5ft holes a weekend to do anymore earth work though.
I'll send you a pm so I don't tie up this post to much.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Don Turnipseed said:
> 
> 
> > Bob, from reading your posts, you seem to be a terrier man. You mentioned a Border terrier. Dow you know Wayne Waggoner or Henry Johnson? I believe they were going to bring the working Border Terriers back.
> ...


Bob, maybe you would start a new thread if you want to leave this one?

I don't know about everyone else, but I know there are at least a few members here who are interested in working earth dogs. Like me! :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Isn't Wayne Waggoner an Airedale guy?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That name sounds familiar to me but I'm placing it with Paterdales, not Borders, as Don suggested.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Wouldn't you know it, my power went out last night.. Wayne does have Airedales and Borders but I think his mainstay is the JRT's. He is in NJ or Md. So Connie, you are into earth work. Hey girl, their is a reason they call it work and not hunting.. Takes a special dog do do what they do in the dark and 6' down. Did Bob start this somewhere else?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

[quote="Don Turnipseed" .... a reason they call it work and not hunting.. Takes a special dog do do what they do in the dark and 6' down. Did Bob start this somewhere else?[/quote]

No, but I will, I guess in "hunting."


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=21690#21690


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

OK, that moved the working earth dog discussion to another forum ... 



Back to Drug Dog Class here ....


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