# working my pup on back tie



## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Thought I would share some more video. Positive criticism is always welcome. She is my first real strong working prospect and I still have a lot to learn. Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhZ-Y72QQNo&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Check out Kraftwerks DVD
Protection Training on the Tie Out Pole
https://kraftwerkk9.com/store/
to get some good ideas on how to do proper tie out work.
The fact that you almost had your dog hanging from your arm pit at the end of the video. Should tell you you're doing it wrong? 
Nice dog but you need to get with a club with some experienced decoys


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I think you may want to leave the stick out of it for now. You need to concentrate on your sleeve presentation. You have to much going on to do it all well enough. Just my thoughts looking at the video twice.

Nice dog, is it yours?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

nice pup
my overall suggestion is no matter what you are going to do, plan it out in your mind b4 doing it
- need a purpose even if you think it is just play, and even play should have a purpose imo
example : is there a reason when/why you hang him up while gripping the sleeve or was it just fun to do cause everyone does it, etc 
- don't focus on too many things at once and just make it a free session
- there was a lot of stuff going on there

rewatch/review and see what the dog is getting reinforced for and what behavior will it likely repeat, etc (your face)

also look at the set up ... what is the purpose of a back tie and is there more than one purpose ? it's a frustrator for drive building and as you learned, it also gives you a safe radius to work in 
- what are the pros/cons of attaching a lead to a collar or harness ?
- to bungie or not to bungie ??

i rarely do even a simple drill that i can't improve on the next time i do it

nice pup ! Tx for posting....


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys.. and yes she is mine.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Removed by user????


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Dang that's my bad, it will be back up in a sec. I'm trying to change the YouTube video privacy settings from my phone and I'm having some problems.... Actually, I was just embarrassed and my feelings were hurt. Lol I'm re up loading it now.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Austin Porter said:


> Dang that's my bad, it will be back up in a sec. I'm trying to change the YouTube video privacy settings from my phone and I'm having some problems.... Actually, I was just embarrassed and my feelings were hurt. Lol I'm re up loading it now.


 Dude, if yr embarrassed look at my vids.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Got the vid back up.. sorry about that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3mDaR3ZoPI&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

She looks like she's grown since I've seen her. She's a nice pup.  Like was suggested, I prefer harnesses on back ties. Easier on their neck (flat collars can be used when the handler holds the dog since there's always more give with a handler than a back tie) and they can bark a bit easier.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Yea I hope she grows a little more lol.. I just prefer a agitation collar to a harness as long as the pup/dog responds well. It seems you can do a little more with oppositional reflex. Just from what I have seen with her anyway.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Austin 
re: "It seems you can do a little more with oppositional reflex"
could you explain what you meant by that ?
,,,if you mean oppositional reflex is a good thing and will make the dog pull harder, won't a dog in a harness pull even harder since the harness distributes the strain over a wider area as compared to strain on the neck only ??
...as in the less strain they feel the more "pulling power" you get, unless i'm misunderstanding what you meant


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

What kind of venue do you plan to train in? I agree with Rick about whether work/play it should have a purpose. And like someone already suggested, leave the stick out for now, unless you want to use it to just make noise... also the sleeve presentation, you only give the dog a small opportunity to engage, don't just hold the sleeve there for the dog to bite on, if he misses it its ok it'll only frustrate the dog more and teach him better timing and striking.

I also prefer using a collar because I think its easier to set the bite. I'm not sure which venue you'll be training in, but my only experience is in Schutz, and i've always been taught to pull on the sleeve if you're focusing on bite development. She looks good so far, nice full grips!


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Austin Porter said:


> Yea I hope she grows a little more lol.. I just prefer a agitation collar to a harness as long as the pup/dog responds well. It seems you can do a little more with oppositional reflex. Just from what I have seen with her anyway.


I think someone is trying to give you a hint!

When I first started agitation work with my first dog, I was on a 2" flat collar. Then someone handed me a harness, told me to try it. By the end of the first session with the harness I noticed how much more freedom and action my dog had, it was a big difference. Try it, I bet you like it!


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

As far as freedom to move and pulling harder yes I think a harness is the way to go. My other dog is always in a harness on back tie, his work is more productive that way. That black pup has spent lots of time in a harness but in my opinion she works better in a agitation collar. Her bites are much harder and full. For frustration work I do usually go back to the harness. Good info on always starting wih a purpose in mind, that something I think I know in the back of my brain but easily forgotten.

That vid was made to show a guy that did some work with her when she was younger. I guess just to kinda show him where she is at?
Probably not the most accurate version of a normal back tie session.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

When I was speaking about op reflex I was talking about while on a bite? I guess its kinda like doing lift offs or fake lifts to build intensity and promote a solid re grip once the back tie presure is released. Either way, I'm happy with her and she is always showing improvement lol.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

There's also the theory that the more a dog gets used to pulling on their neck in protection, you may lose some sensitivity to correct them on the collar during either protection or obedience. May or may not proven per se, but something to think about. Seeing her work in the past, I think she's going to be a little flyer too, so I think it's a bit harder on their body if they hit the end of the line on a collar with a lot of reps than if they do it on a harness.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

I would tend to agree with that Maren but it also depends on the dog too. More reps on a harness yes, less stress and strain, yes lol. She works harder and morte intensely in an agitation collar.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

I should probably be more clear. I agree, the harness is the choice for back tie and agitation work. All dogs are different so training sometimes requires a different method. Idk that's just what works for me and that black pup.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Hmmm...that's actually all the more reason you should work her in a harness. The type of collar or harness should not matter to her. For PSA, it's not absolutely mandatory to work in a flat collar for a trial (you can do it in a harness too), but most everybody does it in a flat collar. But many people train mostly in a harness. So getting used to both is probably best.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've seen both - harness and collar.

If the dog wants to bite, it will bite on a collar or a harness.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Lol sorry Maren.. we agree again, no argument here. I shouldnt matter what piece of equipment she wears and It doesnt. She bites and works either way. Now, when I am specifically working on her bite dev. and pressure/ grip work I choose to do it in a collar. I switch to the piece of equipment that will benefit the specific skill set I am working on at that moment. If im trying to get the puppy to bite harder with a full grip and there is something i can do to promote that, I do it. If its just agitation/frustration work on a back tie she is in a harness the majority of the time. Now, on down the road, when she is older and more mature I will expect her to bite just as hard and work the same no matter what she is in.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Anyway, thanks for the info everyone. Its nice to hear from people with different experiences and training methods, I guess thats why I am on this forum. There is always more than one way to skin a cat... and train a dog. Have a fuin and safe memorial day weekend!


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