# Bite equipment preference



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Okay, I'm posting this for a friend. First they attended a recent seminar and it was stated that you should change back in forth between equipment. This is a year old bitch puppy. If helper starts session working with bite wedge and tries to switch to puppy sleeve, puppy wants the bite wedge first. The reverse is also true so it doesn't matter which you start with. As far as she is concerned that's the only equipment she will work that session. Now generally it seems they progress from one to the other without going back to the previous. So no big deal?? However, seminar giver stated that if she tries to choose what type of equipment, she will try to dictate what helper she works of in a multiple helper situation. Therefore, they were told to keep switching the equipment in a session. Now she doesn't select now between helpers. She works the same off of whoever is working her and in different places.

Thoughts???

Terrasita


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I would like to answer but it is a little confusing what you are asking, or the way i am reading it. I'll jump in when I get the gist of it.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Pillow, wedge, sausage, rag, right arm, left arm, 2 arms, 2 helpers, 1 helper, 3 helpers, prey helper, mean helper, old helper, ugly helper, white helper, black helper prolly missed something


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Pillow, wedge, sausage, rag, right arm, left arm, 2 arms, 2 helpers, 1 helper, 3 helpers, prey helper, mean helper, old helper, ugly helper, white helper, black helper prolly missed something


 Jewish helper?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Pillow, wedge, sausage, rag, right arm, left arm, 2 arms, 2 helpers, 1 helper, 3 helpers, prey helper, mean helper, old helper, ugly helper, white helper, black helper, Jewish helper prolly missed something


Fixed it


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

When I progress to something new I usually want to see that the dog is biting well on the rag for example before I would move them to a tug. You could work them up and give them a bite on what they are currently on. then when they release it, work them up with the new item and then give them a bite, slip it and let them carry it. When they release it you can tease them up and put them away. Then the next session see if you can begin with the new object, but if you have to go back to the old one no big deal do the same thing. if you can start with the new object then give them one bite then when they release it tease them up and thats it. Kind of leave them wanting the new object so bad they forget about the old one.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

She will bite the different pieces of equipment, just not in the same sessions. Lets say you get her out and start her on the puppy sleeve and she is biting well. Then in the same session you pick up the bite wedge to work her with. She will refuse the wedge and bark for the sleeve. Same holds true if you start her with the wedge and then want to switch to the puppy sleeve. She refuses the sleeve and barks for the wedge [yes she can see the equipment initially used].

One thing that was said is that this is indicative of a dog that will want to ultimately choose which helper SHE wants to pursue/bite rather than who you send her after. 

Two, if you focus on only allowing a bite on what is presented is it worth the confusion/stress on the dog at this stage of the game. 

Terrasita


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Pillow, wedge, sausage, rag, right arm, left arm, 2 arms, 2 helpers, 1 helper, 3 helpers, prey helper, mean helper, old helper, ugly helper, white helper, black helper prolly missed something


 
I was reading this and thought it was funny, I was thinking fat helper, chick helper. But Jewish was really pretty funny too


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Still trying to get it.

So the year old pup is being sent on multiple helpers? and allowed a choice on which one to bite? 

So if one helper has a wedge, and works the dog...then another helper has a sleeve, the dog would not work for the sleeve, only the wedge?

what is the dog being trained for?

just not getting it...sorry...


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

no, no, no. Say the helper starts to work her with a wedge and then in the same session, he switches to a puppy sleeve. She will only bite the wedge in that session. Lets say an hour later he starts with the puppy sleeve and she bites it great. In that same session if he tries to switch back to the wedge, she only wants to bite the sleeve. The OPINION was that this will lead to her choosing which helper/decoy later on she wants to work/bite. They assume the behavior regarding the equipment will transfer to a multiple decoy/trial situation.

Terrasita


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> no, no, no. Say the helper starts to work her with a wedge and then in the same session, he switches to a puppy sleeve. She will only bite the wedge in that session. Lets say an hour later he starts with the puppy sleeve and she bites it great. In that same session if he tries to switch back to the wedge, she only wants to bite the sleeve. The OPINION was that this will lead to her choosing which helper/decoy later on she wants to work/bite. They assume the behavior regarding the equipment will transfer to a multiple decoy/trial situation.
> 
> Terrasita


LOL.

Got it. I would think that a multiple helper scenario, would be sleeve or suit. By that time I would think the helpers themselves might have more influence than what they are using. 
It is possible but I can't see it. By the time the dog is put in that situation it isnt gonna matter what the guys wearing, whether it is a linen sleeve, a jute sleeve, or the blend of material the suit is.

I agree it is important to get dog working for whatever helper is using. 

Some dogs will have a preference, but I really haven't witnessed a dog like you describe that only goes for whatever is first presented, regardless of what it is, that is a little weird to me. I wouldn't like that at all.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Addition.

I don't really by the theory that it will cause a dog to engage the wrong helper because of the equipment used.

I have seen this happen quite a bit in scenarios in training, and at competitions.

I don't think it was because of the equipment, I "think" it was either because one helper got the dog pissed, or got in his head, and the dog wants to go back to "settle the score", or one guy is more than the dog wants to mess with and goes to another guy to avoid that helper, usually the first scenario though I think. Like I said it is more about the person at that point than the equipment, I "think".


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

what are you training this dog to do? Sport, civil, or?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Sport---schutzhund and PSA.

Terrasita


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Very interesting stuff about going back and forth with the equipment and dog's preference for it. Wonder if it is a training style or temperament based requirement? Pups I train with went straight from rag to trial sleeves, maybe a couple sessions with the puppy sleeve but no wedges or pillows.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Sounds like the dog hasn't learn to switch gears between equipment to me. You start on the pillow and then all she wants is the pillow? Start on the sleeve all she wants is the sleeve? Sounds like she just gets stuck in 'gear' and can't transition. My guess would be that she would have problems switching between any kind of reward (ball to tug to food to tug to ball...ect).


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Faisal Khan said:


> Very interesting stuff about going back and forth with the equipment and dog's preference for it. Wonder if it is a training style or temperament based requirement? Pups I train with went straight from rag to trial sleeves, maybe a couple sessions with the puppy sleeve but no wedges or pillows.


My guess is training specifically the helper work, we direct the young dog to the helper as soon as possible this is done by the helper his job to make this happen also his job to work the dog with different sorts of equipment and move the dogs training along or to way in on putting the dog up and do some growing.
Having a great training helper making reads and decisions with the development of dogs is a MUST for good good proper Schutzhund development. 
Dog needs to go on a roller coaster and fun house every time it comes on the field. Staying on the merry go round ain't going to cut it.
Our Schutzhund routine is small and specific that's why good training helpers are necessary to keep the work fresh and exiting the work cant be lazy, boring or routine like helper has to take the dog on a odyssey every time hes working.


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