# zinc poisoning



## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

Does anyone know how soon after eating a penny a 25 pound dog would begin to show symptoms?

Reason I ask is there were two pennies in Morgan's crate. I don't know if there could have been a third that she ate or not. I kinda doubt there was, but I'm wondering when can I stop being worried?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Any chance that you might know the approximate year? No, right?


http://www.petprojectforpets.org/documents/POISON%20INFORMATION%20for%20Companion%20Animals.htm

.... if you suspect that your pet has eaten a penny--or any other potentially toxic substance--call your veterinarian or the APCC's emergency hotline at 1-888-4-ANI-HELP for round-the-clock telephone assistance. For more information on poison prevention, visit http://www.napcc.aspca.org.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I see that the condition of the copper coating dictates speed of symptoms.

I'd call.

Let us know.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Do not wait for symptoms of copper or zinc toxicity as by then it could be too late. If you even suspect that the dog ate a penny get it to the vet or at least call them.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i've never heard of this before! thanks for the warning and liz, i hope your dog's ok. wow.

what next???


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

This is something I never considered. Is it really a risk? Wont the dog pass it before having been injured?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

My dog Jo Jo chewed pennies up all the time. I am pretty sure whoever says that dogs will die is either completely full of shit, or Jo Jo was some super dog, as she would have enough pennies in her poop that it would shine. 


She also would chew them in half, and did so nearly every day of her life. She did not die of zinc.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I'm usually more concerned about them dining in the litter box, or using the chi as a Pez dispenser.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

oh, howard.....


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

*WARNING! POTENTIALLY GROSS PICTURES!*




Jeff Oehlsen said:


> My dog Jo Jo chewed pennies up all the time. I am pretty sure whoever says that dogs will die is either completely full of shit, or Jo Jo was some super dog, as she would have enough pennies in her poop that it would shine.
> 
> 
> She also would chew them in half, and did so nearly every day of her life. She did not die of zinc.



We actually discussed this in my systemic pathology lab last week, complete with necropsy pictures, so no, it's not made up and yes, dogs definitely die from it. It happens with pennies made after 1982 or other things made from zinc, even sunblock. Here's some necropsy pictures of a young dog that presented and was euthanized (from our vet school). You can see the penny getting erroded right through in the pyloris (lower part) of the stomach):











This is the rest of the dog on necropsy. Note the icterus (yellow jaundice in the abdominal fat that looks like scrambled eggs and a little bit in the liver) caused by hemolysis and the greatly enlarged spleen (the big thick wet dark burgundyish thing to the right of the lungs and the liver). For orientation, the head of the animal would be the left, tail on the right, legs on the bottom):











Basically the dog's stomach acid erodes the copper off and the zinc underneath gets released into the bloodstream. The zinc causes intravascular hemolysis (the red blood cells get ripped apart in the bloodstream), which is what you see here with the pale purple, funky shaped red blood cells that are on the left half of the picture (the other pale red cells normal red blood cells, the darker purple cells on the right half are white blood cells).











That's why the dog dies. As few as 2 pennies have been known to kill a 10 kg dog, but after the pennies are removed, the blood serum zinc levels usually fall withiin a few days. So getting x-rays or an endoscope to see where they're at would be the way to go.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Maren,

Thanks for sharing! 'Cause I was also thinking "what's the big deal?!" That first pic says it all to me.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

No problem, that's what I'm paying the big bucks to learn about! Nothing quite says it like necropsy photos.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> No problem, that's what I'm paying the big bucks to learn about! Nothing quite says it like necropsy photos.


I couldn't agree more, Maren, because that's what brought it home to me about lesions on a stressed pancreas.

Nothing does say it like necropsy photos.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren, thanks for posting. I'd be interested other internal necropsy photos relating to cause of death, too. 

(I'm sure that the warning is sufficient for those who are not interested or are eating breakfast, etc.)


Back to the zinc thread.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> That's why the dog dies. As few as 2 pennies have been known to kill a 10 kg dog, but after the pennies are removed, the blood serum zinc levels usually fall withiin a few days. So getting x-rays or an endoscope to see where they're at would be the way to go.


Maren, Wouldn't the zinc effect humans in the same way? Toddlers are always putting things in their mouths.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Scholes said:


> Maren, Wouldn't the zinc effect humans in the same way? Toddlers are always putting things in their mouths.



http://radiology.rsnajnls.org/cgi/c...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

http://www.mvtimes.com/calendar/02032005/visiting_vet.html

QUOTE:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
In children (who swallow small objects as least as often as dogs), most coins are reported to pass within four to five days. If the doctor is sure the coin has moved into the stomach and has not lodged in the esophagus on its way down, and the child has no symptoms, they may simply monitor progress with repeated radiographs, or even a hand-held metal detector. The Mayo Clinic web site does mention that corroded zinc pennies may cause ulcers and advises seeking medical attention if the penny has not passed within one or two days of ingestion or if the child has abdominal pain or vomiting. Zinc toxicity, with hemolytic anemia, however, does not seem to be a significant problem in humans. The risk for dogs is much greater. If Numisma has swallowed a penny and she doesn't vomit it up, consult with your veterinarian about referral to a specialist. If the coin is still in the stomach, a veterinary gastroenterologist may be able to retrieve it using a fiberoptic endoscope. If this fails, surgical removal may be necessary. If the penny has passed into the intestines, there is less concern about zinc toxicity, but if it doesn't keep moving along rapidly, aggressive action should  be taken.

Definitive diagnosis of zinc toxicity is based on measuring blood zinc levels. Early signs may include depression, loss of appetite, vomiting, and diarrhea. As the hemolytic anemia progresses, Numisma's gums will look pale. The breakdown of the red blood cells releases pigments that may give her gums and eyes a yellow tint (jaundice) and cause her urine to appear brown, pink, or red. Symptoms may progress with excessive drinking and urination secondary to kidney failure, seizures, and death resulting from severe anemia or multiple organ failure. Treatment involves blood transfusions, i.v. fluids, gastric protectants, medications to control vomiting, medications to decrease zinc absorption by reducing the acidity in the stomach, and chelation therapy.

Chelation therapy is a specific technique in which compounds are given that bind the zinc and enhance the elimination of the toxic metal from the body. Some chelators have potential detrimental side effects, especially on the kidneys, and these protocols must be used with caution and proper supportive care. The necessity for chelation therapy is controversial, as is the optimum length of treatment, and each case must be assessed individually. However, *the most important part of treatment, in every case, is prompt removal of the source of the zinc. Get that penny out of there! *Sadly, some patients may die from the anemia or kidney failure even after the penny is removed. END partial quote[/FONT][/FONT]


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

What, your dog was a busker Jeff ??


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I couldn't agree more, Maren, because that's what brought it home to me about lesions on a stressed pancreas.
> 
> Nothing does say it like necropsy photos.


You're welcome. That was all the relevant photos from that case we discussed, but I'll post more if we get another. The first photo was of the pyloris of the stomach (there's three main regions, cardiac at top, fundic in the middle, and pyloris where it leads into the small intestine), not the pancreas. I forgot to edit a typo: 2 pennies are enough to kill a* 5 kg dog*, not a 10 kg dog.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> The first photo was of the pyloris of the stomach (there's three main regions, cardiac at top, fundic in the middle, and pyloris where it leads into the small intestine), not the pancreas. ..


I didn't mean these photos when I mentioned the pancreas -- I meant a few years back seeing lesions on a stressed pancreas and how it triggered my appreciation for internal internal necropsy photos of cause of death. "Other internal cause of death photos" meant new threads that you might want to post, any time, featuring internal necropsy photographs. I very much appreciated the guided tour. Thanks again for anything like this that you feel like providing.

That was off-topic, though. Back to the O.P. 

I hope there was no third penny.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Interesting. Makes sense that a dog would be sensitive to zinc like any other critter. Off the top of my head, I am guessing the difference between a child and a dog swallowing the penny, is that the dog has stronger stomach acid so the penny would dissolve faster? The dead dog, was the cause of death Zinc poisoning from just the one penny? How big was the dog? I'd think a big dog like a GSD would be far more likely to pass the penny without it lodging in the stomach, compared to a little dog - I'm hoping there's no third penny though, in this case[-o< ... 

I've seen zinc toxicity in birds, parrots mostly, who get it most often from chewing cage paint and galvanized metal. Though there also was one turkey (belonged to someone I knew) that suddenly had a change to blue-green droppings and died within 2 days. Upon our very unscientific "necropsy" we found a double handful of coins in the gizzard, some extremely corroded and some shiny and new. Must have been digging up coins in their yard for a while... Some of those were OLD coins, from the 40's and 30's. No steel pennies, though. :sad: ... :lol:


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

Maren, great photos  

I did talk to the vet, and decided to "wait and see", although after reading this thread I'm feeling a little uneasy about that decision. To be truly safe I would need to get all 4 dogs x-rayed, and that's a little bit pricey.


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