# When would you rehome?



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

This is a corollary to the other thread, but not the exact same, so I thought I would ask. Under what circumstances would you rehome a dog? I don't mean dumping it at the shelter which is certainly not advisable, but finding a good home where the dog's quality of life was still going to be comparable. 

I'm sure answers will be very personal, but here's my situation and apologies for the length...yesterday was a very rough day for me and the dogs. I had a foster dog named Buddy for nearly 2 months from the local shelter. He was a little 20 lbs 10 year old spitz mix that got along with everyone and was very unassuming for the most part. I've fostered dozens of dogs and he's probably the easiest keeper I've had. He hadn't gotten adopted yet I think primarily because of his age, though he was always perfect in the house. If we were both gone for a few hours, he'd get put in the crate, but for very short periods, was left out of the crate as he was very trust worthy. 

I left for class yesterday at 7:30 AM. My husband went to go work out at the gym at 10 AM and got home at 10:45 AM, so Buddy was left out as he was gone less than an hour. I got home early from class just after my husband got home and walked in the front door to see Buddy dead on the floor all chewed up. Relatively little blood loss, but lots of saliva all over. He was still warm. My husband was out in the backyard getting all the rest of the dogs away from everything, but we don't know for certain who it was. I am 95% sure it was Zoso, as ever since he turned around 2 years old, he got progressively more dog aggressive (he's one of those insecure wannabe alpha males). He's fine out in public around other dogs, but not necessarily with other dogs at home. However, I have no idea of the trigger. 

I had to take Buddy's body back over to the shelter to see if I could bury him (they let me, because otherwise they can't even afford to cremate euthanized dogs, they go to the landfill, which I wasn't aware of! :-&). They weren't upset with me as they say it does happen from time to time, especially when all my dogs were at least 2.5 times his weight. But obviously I don't feel like I can foster dogs any more with Zoso. You can do your best to crate and contain them, but you can't ever guarantee you can watch ALL the time or that two dogs end up at the wrong place at the wrong time together. Accidents could always happen and animals, no matter how well trained or socialized, always have the possibility of being unpredictable and acting on instinct.

To add this, my parents called me last night to tell me that my dad had brought them to one of the big off leash areas (it's about 20-30 acres of trails) they go to all the time that is fenced in with hog wire, not chain link. His Vizsla and Weimaraner somehow got out of his sight and out of the park. He searched for them for hours, but was called about four hours later by animal control saying that Rudy the Vizsla was found hit by a car. No word on Rommy the Weimaraner, as his collar had no tags, but he's microchipped. My father is really* REALLY* upset (my mom said he cried more than he did at either of his parents' funerals because at least he knew it was coming) and feels it was all his fault because the Vizsla in particular was not very reliable off leash, but "it was too nice a day to not let him run." 

Zoso has progressively gone from my favorite dog when I had two to my least of my current four. We still do lots of stuff together and I train in agility with him when I can. However, Fawkes has way better nerves, food, ball, and tug drive than he does and is honestly much more affectionate than Zoso. As much as he was a nice intro dog to Schutzhund and agility, he is not in the same league as Fawkes. He is well trained for an active pet (CGC, TT, and DSA). My parents are absolutely heartbroken and I worry that my father will pick some random BYB puppy out of the paper if they don't get some sort of replacement soon. I'm considering seeing if they want to do a trial run on him, although my husband would prefer to keep him. Thoughts? Opinions? Similar situations?


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Wow. First let me say how sorry I am about your foster dog. That sucks.  

I haven't _exactly_ been in your shoes, but I will share with you the decision I recently had to make. When I got Jak, I wanted to get into learning SchH with him. If I had not started out training with the person I did, Jak probably would have made a nice little club level, beginner dog for me. I changed clubs when Jak was a little more than 2 years of age, and although we tried, there really was no undoing what had already been imprinted. If we worked hard enough, Jak probably could have gotten a SchH I, but it sure wouldn't have been easy. I didn't mind that, and was prepared to give it a go, but then I had him evaluated for detection work and BAM! That was absolutely, positively what he was put on this Earth to do. Without a doubt, he excelled at it, even at my novice hand. He enjoyed SchH (well - the bitework part of it anyway), but he LOVED scent work.

I tried as hard as I could, but I finally had to make the decision to let Jak go so that he could continue to do the job he loved, or continue to be forever held back because of my inabilities and lack of time/money to continue his training and certification. 

It took me more than a year to finally convince myself that it truly was in Jak's best interests to go to a competant handler instead of basically being forced to be a yard dog or housepet (which was limited because I couldn't have him and the cats in the house together). Additionally, he was my first shepherd, and I was very attached to him, but it wasn't fair to _him_ for me to keep him, so I made that choice and now he is a certified narc dog for the Sheriff's Dept. I absolutely _hate_ that I couldn't certify him myself and everything, but having a full-time job and a husband kind of puts a limit on things. :-? :lol:



If I were in your shoes, I would probably at least put the offer on the table, providing there is no concern about your dad not being able to handle Zoso's dog aggression issues. It's not like you would be giving him up to a complete stranger never to see him again.

JMO


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Maren, I am so sorry to hear all of that happened, what a nightmare to go through. 

I am not sure I would re-home. I think I would just make sure that the dogs were not left alone, unsupervised together. 

I have dogs here that will try to instigate, so they get no unsupervised time out with others.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

I agree with “can they handle the dog aggression” issue. If not maybe you could help find them a rescue? Four dogs is a lot already. Do you have plans for future dogs? If room is going to be an issue you may want to rehome as the older he gets the harder it will be to do so. Chances are if he went from numero uno to last on the list, that trend will continue.

t


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

No offense meant here at all Maren , just what came to my mind. If your dad let the unreliable dog off leash and it got killed, why would he be a canidate for a dog aggressive animal? Dog aggression is a pain in the ass, constant control etc. Probably best to keep the dog. Marek got a neighbors cat, my fault and i felt terrible, i learned from that, hopefully you'll do the same and not stop fostering dogs

It could have been all the loose dogs in the house that killed the foster, quick and nasty, that's how packs do it. I hate stories like this,


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

maren, i don't know if i can help w/this as i've always had the privilege of being the "rescuer/adoptee". with that said, maybe a trial at Mom and Dad's isn't a bad idea--as long as they realize "NO DOG PARKS"!! 

but i think first, with all the trauma in both households, maybe take a breath..i'm so sorry about your foster boy--he sounds like a sweetheart, and i'm so sorry for your Mom and Dad going thru their own part of the seven circles.....


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

Maren, I went through almost the same exact situation Kristen did with my first GSD. I still see the dog from time to time, and each time I do I know I made the right choice. It was really hard on me at first, and I initally regretted what I did SO bad. BUT as time prevailed I know I couldn't have made a better choice, and I'm really glad I thought more about the dog than myself.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks everyone...regarding their Weimaraner, they got a call from animal control today saying he was picked up near the park, so besides getting sprayed by a skunk :roll:, he was fine. :-D My dad said there was a TON of deer in this park (it has a real big lake, lots of brush and cover, and there is no hunting allowed, so he saw 25-30 deer last night alone just driving around the park looking for him), so he thinks maybe they kicked up a deer and that's why they took off. 

But Zoso will NOT be going to them now. The Weim was a former foster of mine and Zoso did not get along with him. The Weim is nervy as it is and my parents do well with him, but they could never be kept together permanently, so there goes that idea. The thing is, Zoso's not dog aggressive in public (their Weim is actually more dog aggressive out in public, of all things). He can be out and around dozens of dogs at events. If we're out on a trail and happen to run into another dog, it's not typically a problem unless the dog goes after someone else in his pack. It's really only a problem in sharing space at home (and yes, I do a pretty strict NILIF routine and they are all well aware who is alpha bitch). And of all my dogs, he's probably the easiest to handle for a casual dog owner. Never ever the slightest bit human aggressive (almost to a fault) and very good pet obedience. Anyways, my father had called me last weekend anyways wanting to see if he should adopt a retired military working dog as he's always wanted a GSD or a Dobe. I told him getting a nice older female (the Weim's a male) and steering clear of the Mals and the Dutchies would be the best bet. So...we'll see. 

I'm going to also get Zoso another thorough blood work up very soon to rule out something medical. The last two times he had a complete blood count run, he had moderate acanthocytosis, which is a possible sign of hemangiosarcoma (cancer of the blood vessels). He'd be young for it and his liver enzymes were normal last time, but the breed mix (German shepherd) is right on. Hemangiosarcoma has poor prognosis and chemo/splenectomy may buy them 6-12 months, so I may not even have him around much longer if that's the case. Hyperthyroidism is not common in dogs, but it may explain a few things too. :-k

BTW, I didn't just mean to make this into one big sob story for me. Please feel free to continue the discussion of under what circumstance you'd rehome a dog.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I'd rehome him if he went from #1 to last. You won't love him like you should. No offense because it happened to me and one of my dogs too. He chewed up someones cat real good and I just didn't want to be around the dog anymore. Didn't need his bad habits rubbing off on the rest of my dogs either. He found a good home and lived to be a lazy old boy with someone else. 

Your story is just heartbreaking all around for everybody involved, dogs and people. My daughter still gives me grief about getting rid of Buck but even in the wild if pack dynamics change, dogs either get the boot or killed. Whne you have more than 1 dog they have to get along well enough unless, they are seperated always and in the home environment, that just isn't going to happen. I hope you make the right decision for you and wish you strength to live with it.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I can't give you any advice but have a question: Can you be sure the Spitz didn't die of natural causes? I know you can't assess this now but there is a possibility. 

On the other hand, these are animals without our sense of morality so the dog hasn't done anything wrong - "acting wrongly" doesn't apply to them. My two dogs are never 100% safe around our cat and I wondered once how I would react if one of them killed it. I hope I could put it down to "animal behaviour" and lack of control on my part.

It must have been a terrible shock and maybe when this dies down a bit you'll be able to make a decision which is the best for all.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

A bit unfair to judge the dog if you aren't 100% though, right? Dogs only act like dogs and when it's little dog vs. big dog, and big dog doesn't view little dog as 'part' of his pack, accidents like this are very possible. Even if they do, there will still always be little squabbles for dominance especially if the pack leader isn't around to maintain order. It makes sense that a small dog might get even badly hurt against something two, three, even four times bigger than it, with a fight that if both participants were about the same size would probably just leave their egos bruised. 

I wouldn't even think twice about it if my dogs killed one of my cats, because it would really only be my fault for leaving them alone together. I'm the smarter specie, and should have realized an animal's limited capacity.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Al Curbow said:


> It could have been all the loose dogs in the house that killed the foster, quick and nasty, that's how packs do it. I hate stories like this,


I have seen this. All of the dogs jump in. Sure the one may have initiated it but it is doubtful that he killed the dog alone. If he were alone he most likely would have beat him up, established dominance and then let him go.

I would not get your dad this dog. Maybe he can share fostering with you while he looks for his next friend?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

If I have a dog who I feel would be better off in another home, then I will consider rehoming. This may mean the dog doesn't get along with some of the other dogs, or the dog didn't turn out like I hoped in the work and so although still a young dog it's not being worked and just hanging around while the other dogs are, etc. There are only so many hours in the day, and so many dollars to spread around spending time with the dogs, caring for them, etc if I feel I'm giving one of them the "short end of the stick" for whatever reason, I'll consider a rehome situation. Doesn't mean I'll do it, but I'll look into it. 

I rehomed one dog because although I really enjoyed working with him, he was not really a "dog friendly" kind of dog. Definitely not with other males, to the point of breaking my sliding glass door slamming into it because there was another male on the other side of it. He was OK with the females, but was really just a people oriented dog, and had limited interest in interactions with other dogs. He lived in my household, but it was a constant source of underlying stress for him having to follow the pack dynamics/rules that he really wasn't hard wired for. I finally put him in a single dog household, and he is loving life. Much happier, much more relaxed, because he's not having to deal with all those daily social interactions.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Either keep the dog, and follow the rules, which I have learned the very hard way, or put the dog down.

Anyone that I have known with multiple dog homes has had either a really good scare, or exactly what happened to you. I have been through it, and felt like the largest dumbass in the history of dumbasses. I still feel that way. 

I hear people all the time tell me that they haven't had a problem YET. It just takes once, and you feel so stinkin horrible it is not worth ****ing with. 

Sorry to hear about this.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks everyone, I'm going to get a thorough exam and bloodwork done on him, just to make sure it's not something medical. I already had his hips x-rayed just in case, and it's not those. Especially if he's got something like hemangiosarcoma, I'd feel completely awful if I rehomed him to someone else as an only dog to do more agility, etc with and he just dropped dead 6 months later or something. I want to confirm the bloodwork because there are very very few differential diagnoses with the kind of red blood cells that are turning up on the tests, and none of them good. Hemangiosarcoma and being likely part German shepherd makes the top of the list. 

Gillian, yes, he definitely died of no so natural causes. I understand that seizures are not uncommon in his breed mix, which I've heard (and as Lyn and Julie Ann alluded to) can trigger an attack by other dogs, but he had shown no previous signs. He had multiple puncture wounds on his neck and shoulders and was covered in saliva. I couldn't tell if his neck was broken, as I'd probably have to radiograph him to see, but I don't think so. From the chaos in the house, I think he probably suffocated or died of internal injuries because it seems the altercation was in the bathroom from the large amount of saliva and feces on the floor and a few drops of blood and his body was in the hallway about 10 feet outside that door, but only a very small amount of blood underneath him. I would have expected a larger pool if it was simply from blood loss and when you have a 20ish lbs dog versus a 60 lbs dog, it's not going to be much of a fight. 

Jeff, you're right. My husband is especially upset because he didn't put him up before he left, because like I said, foster dogs always go in the crate whenever we are gone for any substantial length of time, especially when we just get them. Even though we don't foster pit bulls since they have a "no adopt" policy (AKA: they only leave out the back policy) at the local shelter, we typically follow a fairly similar protocol as outlined here: 

http://www.pbrc.net/dogintros.html

The only two exceptions were a crate breaker Siberian husky I fostered and that nervebag Weimaraner of my parents, who would tear his gums into hamburger in an attempt to break out. We had Buddy almost 2 full months and famous last words, he was never ever a problem in the house or with the other dogs and DH was gone only about 45 minutes. I think what I'll do is take some early Christmas money and buy a steel or aluminum crate. Zoso wouldn't more than bark at an intruder anyways, so I don't absolutely need him loose in the house if I can get a crate that can contain him (he can also escape from wire and plastic crates as well as non-welded kennels, even with bungee cords, etc on them).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Either keep the dog, and follow the rules, which I have learned the very hard way, or put the dog down.
> 
> Anyone that I have known with multiple dog homes has had either a really good scare, or exactly what happened to you. I have been through it, and felt like the largest dumbass in the history of dumbasses. I still feel that way.
> 
> ...


This is word for word what I'd advise, after many years and many dogs.

It takes a looooong time before I will leave even two dogs together, loose, when I am gone, and it will never in my lifetime happen with three or more.



Maren Bell Jones said:


> ... what I'll do is take some early Christmas money and buy a steel or aluminum crate. Zoso wouldn't more than bark at an intruder anyways, so I don't absolutely need him loose in the house if I can get a crate that can contain him (he can also escape from wire and plastic crates as well as non-welded kennels, even with bungee cords, etc on them).


 If others are crated (and in different rooms, too, of course, from him), and you want him uncrated, I guess I don't see why not.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

" foster dogs always go in the crate whenever we are gone for any substantial length of time, especially when we just get them. "

I still think you're missing the point here. If you're gone for 5 minutes the non pack dog has to be put up, every single time.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> .... I still think you're missing the point here. If you're gone for 5 minutes the non pack dog has to be put up, every single time.


I have to join in making this point because (IMO) it's vital for everyone who fosters or has any kind of a multi-dog household.

I would not even draw a solid line between non-pack and pack, personally. But a non-pack dog, absolutely, is not left for even a moment with any loose pack.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> " foster dogs always go in the crate whenever we are gone for any substantial length of time, especially when we just get them. "
> 
> I still think you're missing the point here. If you're gone for 5 minutes the non pack dog has to be put up, every single time.


No, I got the point very much, Al. Coming home to find a nice little dog all chewed up makes the point just great, thanks. :roll: I was describing my typical policy up until just this week. I'm actually not going to be fostering any more dogs again any time soon. All last year, I didn't foster any because I was too busy during vet school. I took Buddy on because his time was up at the shelter due to his age and he was a very, very easy keeper. Despite my husband being out of work for about 6 weeks and our budget being extremely tight, I also just got done ordering an aluminum crate from Dog Sport Gear:

http://www.dogsportgear.com/diamondplatecrate.htm

Where Zoso will be spending the rest of his time at night and when we are gone until he leaves us, one way or the other.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I wish you all the best Maren, however you decide, and that the horror of finding the dog will fade somehow.

We had 2 males who lived in perfect harmony for 13 years together and we have always left our 2 GSDs together when we went out. It's worked for 3 years but reading through the thread and especially Connie Sutherland's comments has made me decide not to do it any more. My breeder's partner went to the other extreme and said they couldn't ever be together again, even under control, and this has proved untrue. As always, if I can't keep an eye on them (telephoning, showering, etc.) I crate them.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Didn't mean to piss you off Maren, i only went by what you posted. I won't reply to your posts anymore,
Thanks,
AL


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

This is a horrible but interesting thread that may help a lot of other people, Maren. Sorry you had this problem.

Through the years I owned maybe 5 male-female dog pairs that I always left alone together. I never gave it a moments thought. I would never leave 2 males or 2 females together unattended. This is the only time in my life I ever had three dogs at one time. The Lab stays in the house and the male-female Dutchies are in the yard unattended.

Does anyone here see problems with the male- female combination being unattended?


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

> Does anyone here see problems with the male- female combination being unattended?


Really depends on your dogs.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Both my older (neutered) males have gotten into fights ranging from scraps to fairly serious fights with females. Depends on the dogs.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

> Does anyone here see problems with the male-female combination being unattended?


Yes! Dog-vs-dog aggression is not isolated to same-gender pairs of dogs.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Anne Vaini said:


> Yes! Dog-vs-dog aggression is not isolated to same-gender pairs of dogs.


I agree! I have a female/male pair that I would NEVER leave unattended together EVER! I'd for sure come home to a dead dog....one way or the other. IMO- It is flat out irreponsible to leave dogs unattended together. I would do it if I had 2 "normal" breeds or dogs. BUT having a APBT and a GSD forget about it. The drive of both is nuts and they are both DA to a point. 

I hope that you learned your lesson and honestly.....WHY is Zoso getting all the blame???? Did someone witness him start it and finish it or was he the last one caught after the other dogs took a turn? Since no one was home my guess is that you don't really know if it was him or not. 

As to the re-homing issue- If you dislike the dog that much and he is a candidate for rehoming then rehome him. It will be better for you and the dog. 

I would ONLY EVER re-home a dog if....
1) I couldn't take the dog to his full potential and he was a great normal dog with no issues.
2) The dog turned out different than I thought it would or didn't pass health testing.

That's it. That said I'd never re-home a DA dog NOR a HA dog. Also....My current 2 would NEVER be re-homed except that if Judge's health testing doesn't pass, he'll go to a pet home. 

Even then if he had HD or something of the sort I'd PTS instead of rehoming him or any dog with health issues.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> I agree! I have a female/male pair that I would NEVER leave unattended together EVER! I'd for sure come home to a dead dog....one way or the other. IMO- It is flat out irreponsible to leave dogs unattended together. I would do it if I had 2 "normal" breeds or dogs. BUT having a APBT and a GSD forget about it. The drive of both is nuts and they are both DA to a point.
> 
> I hope that you learned your lesson and honestly.....WHY is Zoso getting all the blame???? Did someone witness him start it and finish it or was he the last one caught after the other dogs took a turn? Since no one was home my guess is that you don't really know if it was him or not.


He is getting all the blame because he's the only truly dog aggressive one I have. He also was the only one with saliva on his cheek and a slight cut on his gums under his lower incisors. Buddy was very submissive, which is part of the reason he was such an easy keeper. Lily the Mal is slightly pushy with other females only and would mutually groom Buddy. Buck the old man husky/GSD spends 23.5 hours a day snoozing in his crate and is the omega now that he's significantly older than the others. He liked either play bowing at Buddy or sunbathing with him in the backyard. Fawkes is dominant, but still submissive to Zoso and not dog aggressive either and won't start a fight. Zoso has attacked my fosters on several occasions, but I was always there to break it up (fosters always have drag leashes on with prong collars if necessary). 

For two months, Buddy stayed of the way until I guess he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Buddy's problem was probably one of just physics (20 lbs versus 60 lbs doesn't go off well). The only other thing I could think of, since he was usually very unassuming and submissive, was that he had a seizure that I hadn't seen and he got attacked. We actually just discussed this today in my pharmacology class that if you have dogs with seizures, keep the other dogs in the house away or they will often attack the seizing dog. I believe he was an owner turn in (at 10 years old, nonetheless), and epilepsy is not at all uncommon in the spitz breeds, so maybe that's why he was turned in. Who knows... :-k



> As to the re-homing issue- If you dislike the dog that much and he is a candidate for rehoming then rehome him. It will be better for you and the dog.
> 
> I would ONLY EVER re-home a dog if....
> 1) I couldn't take the dog to his full potential and he was a great normal dog with no issues.
> ...


As a future vet, I don't put dogs to sleep at the drop of a hat. I don't understand why you would rehome a dog for turning out "different" (that sounds like a potentially big loophole in your "I would ONLY EVER rehome a dog if...." clause) but you wouldn't for being dog aggressive? How is that any different? I'd rather rehome a dog aggressive dog to a home without other dogs that would otherwise do just fine than one who had health issues. At least you'd know what you were dealing with a dog aggressive dog. And especially since you're a bully breed owner, a dog aggressive dog is much easier to deal with as a single dog owner than one with health problems, particularly if they are not a problem in public. I can bring him out to some public dog event with dozens of other dogs around and you'd be none the wiser. Heck, he was just romping and play bowing with Buck in the backyard yesterday. I think I'd categorize him as dog selective. 

Anyways, Zoso has an appointment at the teaching hospital for full blood work and maybe thyroid testing on Wednesday. He doesn't have hip dysplasia, as I had his hips x-rayed in the spring, but if it's another problem like hemangiosarcoma causing vasculitis, it could indeed be painful. Perhaps that's why he's gotten progressively less affectionate and progressively more grumpy once he hit around 2.5-3 years old or so. But never, ever been the least bit human aggressive. If it's just his behavior as he matured, I think he'd be great in a one dog active pet home or if someone wanted to do more agility with him. Like I've said, he's not dog aggressive in public (which is highly annoying), just with certain fosters. That suspected wolfdog I had for a day back in July, he didn't mess with him at all. Smart move...true alpha males, he won't attempt to mess with. It's typically the fellow wannabes. :roll:


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