# Looking for info in Dutch Shepherds



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

After dealing with Rottweilers for the past 25yrs it's time for a new breed especially now that I am a much more experience handler and trainer.

I'm seriously considering getting a dutch shepherd in the next year or so but I want to do extensive research first.

This dog will be for Ring Sport and/or Personal Protection

What lines are considered to be best? Is there decent stock in the US especially the SW or even AZ? 

Are there major difference between the sexes?

I'm just looking for a nudge in the right direction.

Thanks


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Chris how could you?!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Chris how could you?!



I love good rottweilers but everyone tells me it's very doubtful I'll own another Rottie like my current male. Maybe. The biggest impetuous is my wife says she wants to start running a few marathons, she current runs 2-3 miles on most evenings which would be hard for most rotts, my boy seems to love it but he's only 78lbs - small, athletic, agile etc. 

Even though my rottie clearly loves the running, I simply don't see him being able to handle 5-7-10+ miles a day. I can see a Malinois doing that and even then needed more exercise. But everybody has a malinois these days and I was never one to like light coloured breeds so the dutchie it is...


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> But everybody has a malinois these days and I was never one to like light coloured breeds so the dutchie it is...


That's a poor way to pick any breed of dog.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Gerry and that's the reason I have big Bouvs!8-[ 
Few folks own and train the working line Bouvier des Flandres. It is the something different like the Giant Schnauzer that I use to own, same reason! I see Chris' pain...


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> That's a poor way to pick any breed of dog.


Well it's not the simple either... I'm sick of schH, most of the people, most of the clubs and the whole routine. I will title my Rottie to schHIII but he's not suitable for Ring sport and not hard enough to be a true protection dog when the chips are really down. My Rottie is serious enough to run off most people but an experienced dogman might be able to put enough pressure on him to make him fold. Great sport dog but not a dog I would trust 100% in a real situation.

I want another working dog and have been considering the malinois but I don't like the light coats. When I was in MN at Mike Schreiber's club somebody had a Dutchie and I thought, I wouldn't mind a dog like that.

So in a way it's about the colour of the dog but it's there is so much more to it. I'm not completely uninformed on Dutchies or working dogs. Knome Sain?


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> Knome Sain?


Wurd :lol:


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Someday......(sigh)


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## Jason Fox (Apr 30, 2007)

Chris-

I am not sure about breeders in the southwest, but I was very happy with the dealings I had with Mike Suttle at Logan Haus Kennels. He was very helpful and has some great dogs.

I have also heard good things about a breeder in Oklahoma, Heartland Dutch Shepherds.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

"I have also heard good things about a breeder in Oklahoma, Heartland Dutch Shepherds."

LOL :-&


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> "I have also heard good things about a breeder in Oklahoma, Heartland Dutch Shepherds."
> 
> LOL :-&



I called Logan Haus this morning. I checked out Heartland but had issues with their website and to me that may be indicative of other issues. Dumb reason I know but it matters to me.

Several folks have emailed me privately and said good things about heartland. Why the LOL Kyle? I'm curious...


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> I called Logan Haus this morning. I checked out Heartland but had issues with their website and to me that may be indicative of other issues. Dumb reason I know but it matters to me.
> 
> Several folks have emailed me privately and said good things about heartland. Why the LOL Kyle? I'm curious...


Not Dumb but SMART. IMO Heartland is a puppymill. Their main advertised stud XHH "Smokie" has been dead for over 5 years....LOL

What have they ever done with any of their dogs?


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## Jason Fox (Apr 30, 2007)

I have dealt with Logan Haus and have found Mike to be very honest and helpful. I don't think you can go wrong dealing with him. Best of luck with your search.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Kyle - I have 2 of Hearland dogs. Both have been worked and temperament tested by Jean-Claude Balu a retired very well known trainer. You can reference his website if you don't know who he is. Both of my dogs are excellent in my opinion and his.

The Heartland website you refer to is a old site used for pedigree reference. I agree he should probably take down this site. Like me he is computer challenged.

His current maintained site is dutchshepherdpup.com. There are no dead dogs on this site.

I'm not sure what your classification is for puppy mills.

Heartland bred 4 litters in the last 10 months. That consists of 2 Mal litters and 2 Dutchie litters. I don't think anyone would classify that as a puppy mill.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Kyle - I have 2 of Hearland dogs. Both have been worked and temperament tested by Jean-Claude Balu a retired very well known trainer. You can reference his website if you don't know who he is. Both of my dogs are excellent.
> 
> The Heartland website you refer to is a old site used for pedigree reference. I agree he should probably take down this site. Like me he is computer challenged.
> 
> ...


I just got off the phone with the heartland guy.

I asked if he has any green dogs.

His answer: "I don't deal with green dogs because people expect too much and you can't deliver"

I asked if there are any special things he does with his puppies to get them ready for placement.

His answer: "They're puppies what do you expect them to do?" I was expecting him to talk about bio sensor stressing, puppy playgrounds, interaction with young children and people etc..

He said he has two litters coming up soon. I asked what can I expect size-wise and and given past litters what are the expected tempermental differences or trends between the litters. I was expecting him to say Bitch A tends to produce pups that are xxxx and bitch B seems to produce xxxx. 

Then the line was disconnected. I don't know if he hung up or not but he didn't call back and didn't answer after I called him back five times. 

He never asked anything about me. What kind of experience I have as a handler or trainer. He never inquired as to what I wanted to do with the dog. He never spoke about the quality of the dogs he just wanted to know if I wanted one.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Kyle - I have 2 of Hearland dogs. Both have been worked and temperament tested by Jean-Claude Balu a retired very well known trainer. You can reference his website if you don't know who he is. Both of my dogs are excellent in my opinion and his.
> 
> The Heartland website you refer to is a old site used for pedigree reference. I agree he should probably take down this site. Like me he is computer challenged.
> 
> ...


If you breed litter after litter and have 4 or 5 litters on the ground all the time you are bound to produce a good one now and then.

Have you visited his (cough) kennel?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> I just got off the phone with the heartland guy.
> 
> I asked if he has any green dogs.
> 
> ...



I don't know Chris. When I was first shopping for a pup I spoke with him many time before I sent money. I asked tons of questions similar to yours. He also questioned me about what I wanted to blah, blah.

I just spoke with Louis over a different matter. I asked him about your call. He's in a intermittent cell service area and says he will call you back latter.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

He called me back and we chatted some more but got disconnected again.

He sure is passionate and I like that... he was bashing ring sport and especially schH.

Ok, he called back again. I gotta say, I kinda like the guy. Old school and only likes dogs that will fight. He says you have to put a bullet on one of his dogs to get them to quit fighting.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

The site is geared 100% towards pup sales, nothing I could see suggested any training of any type except for the picture of Robbie getting jammed up on a sleeve by a guy wearing shorts.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I don't know Chris. When I was first shopping for a pup I spoke with him many time before I sent money. I asked tons of questions similar to yours. He also questioned me about what I wanted to blah, blah.
> 
> I just spoke with Louis over a different matter. I asked him about your call. He's in a intermittent cell service area and says he will call you back latter.



He mentioned you Lee, said you asked for a bitch that pisses fire... Is it true?

I asked him about bio senses stressing and he said he doesn't dip his dogs in water unless they are a piece of shit. He made me laugh.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> He mentioned you Lee, said you asked for a bitch that pisses fire... Is it true?
> 
> I asked him about bio senses stressing and he said he doesn't dip his dogs in water unless they are a piece of shit. He made me laugh.


He is real old school, Chris. Originally he is third generation horse breeder and trainer. He is a straight honest guy.

He definitely is not a dog sport guy. He has titled dogs in the past. The first dog he titled was a Rott. 

He did send me a tough bitch out of Selena's bloodlines.

He laughed when I told him the puppy mill story. He said with 4 litters a year he is a piss poor puppy mill owner.

The dog he was referring to is Brigs I believe. It's a Mal tough Tough Tough

He's connected with Risen Star in Holland


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> If you breed litter after litter and have 4 or 5 litters on the ground all the time you are bound to produce a good one now and then.
> 
> Have you visited his (cough) kennel?



Have you?? I didn't say 4 or 5 on the ground at all times. I said 4 litters in 10 months.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

think your would have a similar reaction from me, Chris. I don't do biosenses things either. I regular check upon the puppies till 3 wks old, mum does the rest. I pick them up while checking but only in potty time of mum, so that's short 'cause they do their business and return inmediatly back to their pups.

I feed them, cuddle them, play with them when they get older, and they may bite -till the day they leave litter- the shit out of me. (the pups who stay may do that 'till their exploring by teething phase is over) They have toys and outside play time... but nothing special, I observe them when they play (with eachother, with toys, with me). When they start hearing I make my puppy sound, so they learn it. Very good if they are called for dinner or outside playtime, nothing greater than a puppy cuddle/biting all over you. 

But all that (semi-) intelectual shit, no way.


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

If you aren´t restricted to US, kennel havrevingens in Sweden have some really nice dogs what I´ve heard, but I´ve only seen a few of their dogs.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

BTW Kyle I do know he has indoor outdoor kennel and a 5 acre training facility. He scored a excellent rating when AKC rated his kennel.

That's it for me I'm done with this silly game.](*,)


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Have you?? I didn't say 4 or 5 on the ground at all times. I said 4 litters in 10 months.


I have a very close personal dog pal that has been there and I know his Brother Armin.

He told you and Chris what I would expect him to say

Believe what you wan't, most of the stuff Chris and you just posted is Pure BS.

Taking some Bitches and a couple of KNPV titled dogs a couple of generations back and cranking out pups non stop is not what I would call a real accomplished breeding program. LOL

Do you ask him what he did for a living?


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> BTW Kyle I do know he has indoor outdoor kennel and a 5 acre training facility. He scored a excellent rating when AKC rated his kennel.
> 
> That's it for me I'm done with this silly game.](*,)


 
LMAO! You know because he told you so? LMAO!

Good Luck!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

talked to Mike from Logan Haus I like him and he made me feel that he understands what I want. I'm on his list for his next litter.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> I have a very close personal dog pal that has been there and I know his Brother Armin.
> 
> He told you and Chris what I would expect him to say
> 
> ...



He said he was a Horse trainer or something. 

He also mentioned that you could test any of his dogs by ripping a green tree branch and taking it to his dog. I enjoyed talking to him but Mike from Logan Haus was more my type of guy. After we talked about my needs he told demonstrated he understood what I was looking for.

The heartland guy was more of a take it or leave it and get your deposit in now because the pups will be spoken for as soon as they hit the ground. 

Mike didn't ask for a deposit even though I offered one. He said he couldn't guarantee he find the kind of dog that would fit me in this next litter so there was no reason to sit on my money. He said he doesn't sell a lot of pups outright because he sends them off to some prison dog training program where prisoners do environmental training with the pups everyday and then he comes in twice per week to do bite sessions. Most of his dogs are available at 12-16mo.

One of my joys of owning a dog is the training. And since I work from home it makes it a lot easier to do a dozen 30 sec sessions a day.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Is $1500 too much for a dutchie pup? I'm used to looking a well bred rotts that start around that figure.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

You could get 2 for that price at Kyles favorite breeder. If you want you can call Jack Norton 919.816.3000. He is the AKC inspector who did Heartland.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

You could get 2 for that price at Kyles favorite breeder. If you want you can call Jack Norton 919.816.3000. He is the AKC inspector who did Heartland.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> You could get 2 for that price at Kyles favorite breeder. If you want you can call Jack Norton 919.816.3000. He is the AKC inspector who did Heartland.


You can get TWO from Holland for that price. Not what you mean about my Favorite breeder? I don't have one.

I will see if I can find the Pics from this great indoor outdoor kennel and 5 acre training Facility...LOL


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> You could get 2 for that price at Kyles favorite breeder. If you want you can call Jack Norton 919.816.3000. He is the AKC inspector who did Heartland.


FYI Lee, most comercial puppymills are inspected by the AKC. All they care about is more registered litters = more $$$$$$$$$$$$

Like I said, believe what you want, just had a hellova LAUGH about this with a friend who has been there!


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

If you search around a number of forums, lists, etc. you'll see "dutchies" being sold for $500-800 or so, but without much information (as with alot of Mali pups - you can always find a cheaper one, but it depends on how discriminating you're being). Or you could do your gambling through a breed rescue, and help place a pup that originated from one of these breedings. I'd want to meet the parents, or know why the breeder is matching this sire to that dam... Alot of folks are just casual and seem to grab a male and a female, and say "grab any pup for any job". Maybe that works, I don't know. Good luck.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

heartland wants $700

as for puppy mills Logan Haus sounds more like a puppy Mill than Heartland. According to Mike at Logan they always have a litter ready to drop. He says most of his dogs go to the military and to police stations. 

Maybe Mike is a better sales person? I dunno but the heartland guy seemed baffled at why I would want to know where his pups go. He said "they go wherever they go"

I didn't know mals and dutchie were so cheap in general. Doesn't Balabanov get $2000+ for his sport dogs? from what I understand the Ot Vitosha are great sport dog but don't have alot of human aggression in them for Personal Protection work.

This is the sire at Logans http://m.b5z.net/i/u/6125790/m/Arko_video_clip.wmv

that's a pretty nice hit. A little whimpy with the stick hit though


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Kyle Sprag said:


> You can get TWO from Holland for that price.


Actually you can't, in my experience a pup is about 600 Euro which is about 800 USD and if the pup is shipped the total is around 2,500 CDN.. in my case anyway.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Actually you can't, in my experience a pup is about 600 Euro which is about 800 USD and if the pup is shipped the total is around 2,500 CDN.. in my case anyway.


I had a couple of friends bring back two KNPV line HH pups and they paid 300 euro each for them. This was about 8 months ago.


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## Jason Fox (Apr 30, 2007)

Logan Haus is far from a puppy mill. Mike has a top-notch facility and breeds with the intent of producing dogs that can and will perform the work they were intended to.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Kyle Sprag said:


> I had a couple of friends bring back two KNPV line HH pups and they paid 300 euro each for them. This was about 8 months ago.


Of course the best way is to go there yourself and you would get a lower price, but they still had additional costs above the purchase price..right ??


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Of course the best way is to go there yourself and you would get a lower price, but they still had additional costs above the purchase price..right ??


 
An $800 plane ticket, shipping for a couple of pups in the same crate would be a less than that depending on what airport they come to.

Either way I would rather pay someone to go over and pick out pup/s and save a little. $1500 seems a little Steeeep to me. I have no desire to travel, ben there done that. Lived in Germany for a year. In the end if anyone can get pups into good homes for that price good for them.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Jason Fox said:


> Logan Haus is far from a puppy mill. Mike has a top-notch facility and breeds with the intent of producing dogs that can and will perform the work they were intended to.


Agreed 100%


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## R Janssen (Jul 25, 2008)

The price (over here) is about 250-350 Euro ($450) for a good KNPV bloodline MHx or HHx Pup.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

rene_limburg said:


> The price (over here) is about 250-350 Euro ($450) for a good KNPV bloodline MHx or HHx Pup.


Well, hook us up!. I'd like to know more.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Me too!

I'd love an excuse to visit Amsterdam again. Not this year, but soon.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Rene is right, Gerry you got ripped off if the 600 euro was the sole puppy price. The pals from Kyle probably had the same puppy price as a Dutch would have, which is imo reasonable.

My last litter was 350 euro per pup, I charge extra cost if necessary (extra shots, staying longer) and of course shipping costs are for the buyer. Buyer can see the bills for the extra cost, that's only fair to them.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Selena, a pup for under a thousand dollars is reasonable in my opinion. And it would cost more to take the time off work than what I could save by going there.

I could buy all my food directly from farmers in my province and save money on the cost, but the cost of fuel and time driving to get it wouldn't make it practical.

For 350 a pup I'll take your next whole litter :lol:


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

350? That sounds cheap, but this is not for the registred
dutchies with a pedigree, or? Puppyprice here is about 900-1000 Euro for a working GSD, so I suppose the price would be similar for a Dutchie with pedigree, like from havrevingens kennel, if I buy a dutchie here.


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## R Janssen (Jul 25, 2008)

@Erik, if you want a pure bloodline GS for example, than you are paying more, but those dogs are mostly not used in the KNPV, becorse they are breeded with the goal to keep a pure famlythree, and not always on preformence of the dogs.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Rene is right, Gerry you got ripped off if the 600 euro was the sole puppy price. The pals from Kyle probably had the same puppy price as a Dutch would have, which is imo reasonable.
> 
> My last litter was 350 euro per pup, I charge extra cost if necessary (extra shots, staying longer) and of course shipping costs are for the buyer. Buyer can see the bills for the extra cost, that's only fair to them.


I'll take one of your Pups Salena and if it doens't work out I can sell it to Gerry for twice the price


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I said I wouldn't comment further on this puppy mill nonsense with Heartland Mals and Dutchies. But I feel a need to break my silence because accusing someone of that disgraceful business warrants a response.

I just got off the phone with AKC. I asked how many litters of Mals Heartland registered in "07 and '08. Obviously there is no AKC registration for Dutchies. He breeds both type of dogs so I thought it is a reasonable indication of puppy mill activity.

There was a grand total of 2 litters of Mals registered in '07 and no litters in '08. That is exactly what Louis Sider told me on the telephone.

This is obviously not puppy mill activity.


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## Rachel R Phelan (May 26, 2008)

Chris-

You should give Cheryl Carlson at Cher Car Kennels in St. Johns, Michigan a call, if you haven't settled on a a breeder yet. We got our Dutch Shepherd from her in May. Prior to purchase she invited us up to meet the parents, check out the pups, see her kennel and watch a training session. We even got to take a bite from our pup's mom. Cheryl is very thorough and a fantastic breeder. She was very careful to match us up with the exact puppy that would meet our needs. No BS and you get full disclosure. She has been in the business over 30 years and knows her stuff. I originally went after a Dutch Shepherd for the same reason, I am a runner, and my marathon training partner can no longer run. I wanted a running partner, and what we got is so much more than that. Cheryl's website is: http://www.chercarkennels.net

I hope you find the Dutch Shepherd you are looking for. 

Good Luck and Happy Hunting!

Rachel Phelan
Cleveland, OH


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I said I wouldn't comment further on this puppy mill nonsense with Heartland Mals and Dutchies. But I feel a need to break my silence because accusing someone of that disgraceful business warrants a response.
> 
> I just got off the phone with AKC. I asked how many litters of Mals Heartland registered in "07 and '08. Obviously there is no AKC registration for Dutchies. He breeds both type of dogs so I thought it is a reasonable indication of puppy mill activity.
> 
> ...



For what it's worth, Heartland did not come off sounding like a puppy mill to me. Quite honestly he sounds more like a BYB more than anything else but if he's got good stock and knows dog then that's not an issue to me. Logan Haus has a program that they put their pups through and to me that's worth a few hundred dollars more. I can't find anybody to say anything bad about Logan Haus and I can't find anybody except Kyle and his buddy to say anything negative about heartland.

The heartland guy sounds like he'd be fun to hang around a few times a month... have a few beers, shoot the shit and work a few dogs. Mike at Logan's was much more business oriented. 

After two conversations with each I feel more comfortable with Logan Haus at twice the price for a pup. I feel comfortable having him send me a pup sight unseen whereas I would drive to OK to see the dogs first and then pick one with his help.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I said I wouldn't comment further on this puppy mill nonsense with Heartland Mals and Dutchies. But I feel a need to break my silence because accusing someone of that disgraceful business warrants a response.
> 
> I just got off the phone with AKC. I asked how many litters of Mals Heartland registered in "07 and '08. Obviously there is no AKC registration for Dutchies. He breeds both type of dogs so I thought it is a reasonable indication of puppy mill activity.
> 
> ...


Lee, only a very small number of litters are even Registerable from that kennel. Like I wrote before Believe what you want. If you are happy with your dogs that's great.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> For what it's worth, Heartland did not come off sounding like a puppy mill to me. Quite honestly he sounds more like a BYB more than anything else but if he's got good stock and knows dog then that's not an issue to me. Logan Haus has a program that they put their pups through and to me that's worth a few hundred dollars more. I can't find anybody to say anything bad about Logan Haus and I can't find anybody except Kyle and his buddy to say anything negative about heartland.
> 
> The heartland guy sounds like he'd be fun to hang around a few times a month... have a few beers, shoot the shit and work a few dogs. Mike at Logan's was much more business oriented.
> 
> After two conversations with each I feel more comfortable with Logan Haus at twice the price for a pup. I feel comfortable having him send me a pup sight unseen whereas I would drive to OK to see the dogs first and then pick one with his help.


I totally understand, Chris. You gotta go with your personal comfort zone. I have a different comfort zone and usually lean towards the good old boy type dude.

After 42 years in sales and marketing I "read" people pretty well. Logan Haus sounds great too.

I became a total fan of Selena's and Dick's bloodlines and Heartland is the only breeder in the US that has it with Robbie.

Good luck as a potential new Dutchie owner.


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

rene_limburg said:


> @Erik, if you want a pure bloodline GS for example, than you are paying more, but those dogs are mostly not used in the KNPV, becorse they are breeded with the goal to keep a pure famlythree, and not always on preformence of the dogs.


Need a FCI-pedigree to be able to compete here, so if the dog shouldn´t be used for servicework only, I need a pedigreed dutchie.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Lee, only a very small number of litters are even Registerable from that kennel. Like I wrote before Believe what you want. If you are happy with your dogs that's great.


I have 2 very good dogs from that kennel. I tend to be over critical of my dogs. They have been tested and worked by 3 different trainers who all had the same outstanding opinions.

They were purchased 7 months apart and they are from 2 different bloodlines.

If I lucked out it happened twice.

I don't know how much more I could expect from a breeder.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Erik Berg said:


> 350? That sounds cheap, but this is not for the registred
> dutchies with a pedigree, or? Puppyprice here is about 900-1000 Euro for a working GSD, so I suppose the price would be similar for a Dutchie with pedigree, like from havrevingens kennel, if I buy a dutchie here.


The price for a FCI pedigreed dutchie is about 500 euro (recommended price by their kennelclub). Working line GSD's (pedigreed) varies from about 650-1000 euro I believe.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

with the 350 euro I get out of costs for a litter, even make some money if the litter is big enough. That's enough for me, I can't make a living out of it. That' s for sure.

I have 2, maybe 3 litters planned for next year...1 is sold out (2 puppies are going to the States btw), the other almost. Didn't have spread the word about the possible third...


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> I'll take one of your Pups Selena and if it doens't work out I can sell it to Gerry for twice the price


I'd go for that, just as long as your PPD training didn't ruin it completely :razz:


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