# Raw Diet Problems



## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Has anyone had bad results feeding raw? Two of my dogs were doing great, started on chicken quarters and thighs. Then my Dutchie just stopped eating the chicken and has been sick for several days, not eating much of anything.


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## Charles Wrenn (Apr 22, 2008)

You may want to make sure its not a blockage. Signs of blockage are vomiting, cant drink water, and really just down and out. I fed raw for several years never had a problem....But I have dealt with a blockage before from a foreign item!


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Any bowel movements or vomiting?


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## Deb Vigil (Jan 1, 2008)

Also been feeding for years and if the dog swallowed a hole bone piece it can very well block the dog. Some dogs are not known for the chewing. I had a Presa that did it. 
I would take dog to vet for xray to make sure 

Best of luck and please keep us posted on his/her recovery


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks for the input, no blockage and bowel movements and drinking are fine. My rotty I can't give leg quarters because he does swallow the whole thing and the other night he threw up the whole leg bone. I'm hoping I have better luck with chicken backs


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

My old husky/Rottweiler mix would eat a chicken quarter whole, no chewing. Put my python to shame. He also pnce ate an entire tilapia fish nearly whole and then about an hour later, threw it all up on the carpet. Of course, the kitchen which had tile was like 5 feet away, but he had to aim for the carpet. :razz: OMG, the smell...anyways, you might look into getting a meat grinder. I'm noticing they are on sale now at farm stores and Bass Pro because of hunting season.

That batch of chicken may have a high bacterial load. Dogs can certainly get salmonella, E. coli, campylobacter, etc too. I'd probably toss that batch.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

If he's still acting less than normal I'd get abdominal rads done.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

laff all you want, but

- for dogs just starting out w/ raw who think a drumstick is just one big piece of kibble i have hand fed to teach em some "chewing manners" after i pounded it a bit to soften the bone but not break it completely
- after messing around a lot, i found if i used some of those cheapo gardening gloves with the rubber dots on it i had a lot better chance at holding on to it too, and they figure out they need to so some crunching b4 they swallow pretty quick, and learn to like eating that way
- has worked well with beef rib bones too, especially if they are meaty so they can actually eat something and keeps it fm turning in to a tugfest

- i'm a big fan of hand feeding in a lot of situations

and if you gotta dog that won't let you hold raw in your hands, you got other problems you need to sort out first 

but for me it's been worth some extra effort sometimes


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Larry no expert but if the dog was doing fine maybe you should consider a cause wider than the chicken, might of just been a coincidence that it had chicken and also picked up something else u didn't know about or give it?

i am assuming that what you listed is not the complete diet?? RAW as i understand it requires a large variety of meats and internal organs - lots of knowledge here, i'm new to it.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Larry,

Get in touch with Candy in the area. She is a great local contact, in addition to the people on this forum.

Take care
Sue


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## drew sterner (Aug 26, 2011)

i have had bacterial stomach problems from feeding chicken. start some metronidizol(sp) and see if that helps. Ive given up on the raw deal and just switched to a performance food. I dont want to mess with the whole blockage and bacteria issues anymore. Not to mention the wife hates chicken blood in the bottom of the fridge.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> My old husky/Rottweiler mix would eat a chicken quarter whole, no chewing. Put my python to shame.


what kind of python????


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

drew sterner said:


> Not to mention the wife hates chicken blood in the bottom of the fridge.


They do make containers to put things in ....that sounds gross to me even...


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Sue DiCero said:


> Larry,
> 
> Get in touch with Candy in the area. She is a great local contact, in addition to the people on this forum.
> 
> ...


Thanks Sue


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

RMBs for the dogs, raw chicken or any meat to cook for humans .... this should not be stored in such a way as to allow drip-through to lower shelves.

And not to start a battle, because I do believe that there are many very good commercial foods .... but sick-making foods are not all raw. Are we forgetting the thousands of sick or dead animals relating to the recalls across company after company after company in 2006-2007 (and of course many other years as well) ... the rice protein, corn gluten, wheat gluten ... the thousands (yes, thousands) of recalled items .... hundreds of cases of renal failure _in the first month_ of the 2006 recall ... 

There are dangers in every choice. And again, I do indeed think very highly of many commercial foods. I buy THK, in fact, for travel and emergencies and variety. There are excellent kibbles as well.

I just don't want to lull anyone into "all safe" complacency because they have switched to kibble.

JMO!


Back to the O.P.: Did you dispose of that batch? Is there still any kind of GI distress apparent at all?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> what kind of python????


Jungle carpet python. She has a pretty extreme feeding response and would occasionally even pop a frozen/thawed mouse. Not a problem that she's on rats, but mouse goo in the feeding bin is no good. My only snake currently. Used to have a Brazilian rainbow boa (great snake) and an anerythristic boa contrictor (not so nice).


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

drew sterner said:


> i have had bacterial stomach problems from feeding chicken. start some metronidizol(sp) and see if that helps. Ive given up on the raw deal and just switched to a performance food. I dont want to mess with the whole blockage and bacteria issues anymore. Not to mention the wife hates chicken blood in the bottom of the fridge.


I would defrost anything, even a large turkey, in a decent size red rubbermaid dishpan in the fridge. Worked pretty well and easy enough to sanitize. I understand though...my male Mal doesn't do great on 100% raw and my female Mal will sometimes vomit up bits of bone (lamb mostly) and bile perhaps once every 2-3 months. I've also seen a dog get obstructed on raw turkey neck bones, causing vague GI signs (off and on vomiting). The turkey neck bone pieces had been in the stomach for about a week and were not yet soft when they were pulled out by an endoscope (I felt them afterwards). So I don't do nearly as much as I used to. Probably 1-2 days a week. People need to understand that raw definitely has its risks and to not believe everything the raw food religion people say about raw bones not causing obstruction and the like, cause I've seen it and I've fed raw for about six years now.

Back to the size of the meal question...try doing half of a whole chicken (and half the giblets) or a quarter of a large turkey (give the breast/wing/backbone part for one meal and rotate back to the thigh/drumstick/backbone for the other meal) for the ones that can swallow a bunch. You'll likely get a more complete calcium/phosphorus ratio since that's closer to the whole carcass. You do have to invest in a decent knife, but it's kinda fun.


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

[_QUOTE_=Connie Sutherland;300256]RMBs for the dogs, raw chicken or any meat to cook for humans .... this should not be stored in such a way as to allow drip-through to lower shelves.

And not to start a battle, because I do believe that there are many very good commercial foods .... but sick-making foods are not all raw. Are we forgetting the thousands of sick or dead animals relating to the recalls across company after company after company in 2006-2007 (and of course many other years as well) ... the rice protein, corn gluten, wheat gluten ... the thousands (yes, thousands) of recalled items .... hundreds of cases of renal failure _in the first month_ of the 2006 recall ... 

There are dangers in every choice. And again, I do indeed think very highly of many commercial foods. I buy THK, in fact, for travel and emergencies and variety. There are excellent kibbles as well.

I just don't want to lull anyone into "all safe" complacency because they have switched to kibble.

JMO!


Back to the O.P.: Did you dispose of that batch? Is there still any kind of GI distress apparent at all?[/QUOTE]

My Dutchie had some incontinence problems a while back and was diagnosed with low estrogen levels which made her look really down and pee in her bed. She was put on an estrogen pill and has been fine ever since. Once I started the raw she started acting the same way and peed on her bed again. I stopped the raw for about a week and she started doing better. Put her back on the chicken last night and she peed again. I am really in tune with my dogs and could usually tell you what is wrong but this one is kicking my ass. Don't know if it is a coincidence or if the raw is causing this problem all over again.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

it is a confirmed diagnosis that low estrogen levels made her pee on her bed ????

has a vet told you this peeing problem was caused by raw feeding and if so, how ????

btw, is your vet "anti-raw", neutral or a raw feeder ??
... i suspect they are neutral, meaning the won't recommend it and will point out that there are hazards to be aware of feeing raw, etc 
- the reason i say this if a vet doesn't agree with your feeding methods it may get in the way of their support

definitely a bit puzzling the way you have stated the problem and actions taken so far, and interested to hear how it turns out


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

rick smith said:


> it is a confirmed diagnosis that low estrogen levels made her pee on her bed ????
> 
> has a vet told you this peeing problem was caused by raw feeding and if so, how ????
> 
> ...


Yes Rick she was diagnosed but this was a while back, long before I started feeding raw. I just started raw a couple of weeks ago and the same symptoms started that she had before she was diagnosed. I will keep you guys posted, I really do want to stick with the raw, I know it is the way to a healthier dog


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Just an update, my Dutchie has been doing much better. She is eating chicken again and does not look sick anymore, actually looks better than ever. Thanks for all the info guys. it is well appreciated


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Update on my Dutchie. i got bad news yesterday. She is in full kidney failure. That is why the raw diet did not agree with her. She is only 3 years old and most likely had it when I got her at 8 months old. I am devastated. They are going to put her on a special diet but because her numbers are so far gone it does not look like anything could help.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Larry, I'm so sorry to hear of this diagnosis. :-( If you would like to still do a home prepared diet, you can contact me privately if you would like me to work with your vet and formulate one for you appropriate for kidney disease.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm so sorry, Larry.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Did the vet rule out an infection such as Leptospirosis? I ask because about 10 years ago, I got a call from a puppy buyer (Beauceron). Their dog had been in perfect health and was 2 years old at the time and suddenly became very ill. Their vet focused on that since it was a rare breed that there must be something genetic cause for the kidney failure. I urged them to get her to UC Davis which was a few hours away because I was thinking something external such as poison or disease because the dog went from healthy to very ill so fast. It was Lepto and was treatable and the dog recovered. She would of died under the first vet's care due to a misdiagnosis.


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Did the vet rule out an infection such as Leptospirosis? I ask because about 10 years ago, I got a call from a puppy buyer (Beauceron). Their dog had been in perfect health and was 2 years old at the time and suddenly became very ill. Their vet focused on that since it was a rare breed that there must be something genetic cause for the kidney failure. I urged them to get her to UC Davis which was a few hours away because I was thinking something external such as poison or disease because the dog went from healthy to very ill so fast. It was Lepto and was treatable and the dog recovered. She would of died under the first vet's care due to a misdiagnosis.


Not sure Debbie


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm with Debbie, I'd test for all the tick bornes as well. Seems like there has to be something underlying.


Terrasita


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