# the ball is not chewing gum!



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

I have a corso who trains very well with a rubber ball, he just loves it. The problem I have is that he gets very chewy with it, even more if he's excited. I'm planing to do schutzhund with him for which I know such chewie grip is no good, but at this point it's just really annoying. He munches on the ball while comming back with it and often drops it (because he's such an animated chewer), it then bounces around while he tries to catch it, often bouncing it even further with his nose... he's having a blast doing it, I'm sitting there thinking "oh common! pick the stupid thing up!"

I've thought about getting a simillar ball but on a rope and just snatch it from his mouth with the rope when he's not holding on to it strong enough. Obviously I don't know untill I try it, but I have a feeling his reaction will just be "ok cool, you got it, now throw it!" 

Any suggestions? Thanks.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

If you're using it as a reward, then I would get a ball on a rope. It's not his, it's yours and you can reward him with it by tugging, thereby not giving him a chance to chew and then tell him "out" and carry on training then reward him again. A good idea is to have the dog on a long line (without loop) if he doesn't stay near you. Throwing it as a reward is not a good idea. It lets him go off and do his own thing, i.e. chew!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Get a ball on a string. I'd be getting one of the SUPER hard balls. Then get the Bernard Flinks/Leerburg DVD Training grip and focus. Your dog is going to need a heck of a lot of work to get a calm grip.

Do this experiment. Throw a ball for your dog. Watch how your dog holds the ball as he RUNS AWAY FROM YOU. Now watch how your dog holds the ball as he RUNS TOWARDS YOU. Does he chew more as he gets closer to you? Stop a bit aways from you and chomp on it for a while? If that's the case, it's not just a hectic, chompy bite you are dealing with, but stress/conflict on the out. In SchH it'll bite you in the *ss not just in bitework, but also on the retrieve.

Tell us what you find out. It will shape the advice you recieve.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> Get a ball on a string. I'd be getting one of the SUPER hard balls. Then get the Bernard Flinks/Leerburg DVD Training grip and focus. Your dog is going to need a heck of a lot of work to get a calm grip.
> 
> Do this experiment. Throw a ball for your dog. Watch how your dog holds the ball as he RUNS AWAY FROM YOU. Now watch how your dog holds the ball as he RUNS TOWARDS YOU. Does he chew more as he gets closer to you? Stop a bit aways from you and chomp on it for a while? If that's the case, it's not just a hectic, chompy bite you are dealing with, but stress/conflict on the out. In SchH it'll bite you in the *ss not just in bitework, but also on the retrieve.
> 
> Tell us what you find out. It will shape the advice you recieve.


I have that DVD, last time I watched it though was probably some 2 years ago. 
He treats the ball the same way regardless if he's coming towards me or not. He just turns into a happy idiot as soon as the ball is in his mouth. I've watched him find a ball in the backyard and carry it around and he does the exact same thing. It looks like a happy immature puppy chewing and sort of tossing the ball in his mouth and when it gets away from him, he just gets more excited and tries to chase it. 
He's very good with droping the ball on command, although he takes little nips at it right after he drops it, then stops and looks up. 

I've tried to get him not to drop the ball on command to break our routine but instead hold it in his mouth for a bit while I talk calmly to him to try to settle him. He settles, but still chomps on the ball like its a piece of gum.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i don't know if this is helpful to the topic, but here i go anyway. 

i used to excercise Brix with a chuck-it, he loved it, think "the thunder of hooves" as he went after it. when he picked up the ball (still at a high rate of speed), turned to bring it back, he wasn't chewy on it until he got right up to me. then he would get chewy. he would "out" the ball when told to, but nearly always a yard away, then grab it up again, then "out" when told.

the interesting thing about him was, when i said "here" after the above nonsense, he would bring it. but at times, i had to repeat the "here" command to get him close enough to just pick it up.

this is obviously a dumb trainer thing, but it may generate some responses that could help the OP. maybe. and it may help me w/my next pup....

he never had a problem with "out", and he knew that if he didn't bring it "here" that the game would stop until he did, but he didn't like giving it up even when he knew i wouldn't throw it again until he did.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Thanks.

Ball on string. Use a hard one that he won't get a tooth stuck in. He chomps it and you RIP it out of his mouth by the string. Go into prey movements and DO NOT let him win. Put the ball in your pocket and put him up. Training is over. Train this twice a day for 2 weeks. The success is not measured by the length of the session, but how it affects the next session. A 5 second training session can be more effective than a 15 minute session. 

Teach the "into my arms" - a good spot to work on grip, reducing conflict and the out. Teach it as an obedience command first, then bring it into the game.

He must learn to bite once, bite hard, and HOLD it or the game ends.

The first rule _your_ dog must learn is to "bite and never let go."

The grip comes before the out. Don't even think about the out at this point. Don't ask for an out. You can play the game shown on the DVD without ever outting the dog. The out can't improve anything now, especially since he's rehearsing a dirty out.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> A good idea is to have the dog on a long line (without loop) if he doesn't stay near you. Throwing it as a reward is not a good idea. It lets him go off and do his own thing, i.e. chew!


I will get a long line for him. His recalls are fine, but they slow down to a prancing trot while he is retrieving the ball. I think I will also at least reduce the ball throwing out of our training routine. He just looooves to run and chase the ball, which works great to tire him out, but is also his BIG reward while we train. I do little tosses of the ball into his mouth while we work on heeling and attention. Then if he's doing very well consequtevly he gets the ball throw. 

I've also been using the ball throw with him to practice stay and a release on my command (we've had some stay braking issues around other dogs). So I get him to down stay for example and throw the ball, (drives him nuts). He's learned that he needs to look back at me before he's allowed to go get it, and we've been working on increasing the stay time. As soon as he gets the release he just flies to get to that ball, then prances back to me with it. Ideally he gets to me and sits in front of me or downs, then drops the ball on command I then pick it up and we're back to training. Unfortunetly all that is interrupted by omigawd mom I dropped the ball.. I'll get it! I got it.. look at me I'm comming, oh crap there it goes again.. got it.. I'm comming... 

It's really annoying to watch, so what I have done is tell him down as soon as he starts comming back with the ball, then he drops the ball on command and waits untill I come over.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Switch to a different object for fetch play.

Or only work grip on a bite pillow/bite bar.

Or better - do both.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Thanks for all the advice Anne, that all makes sense. I'll have to find some time to rewatch that DVD too.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> Switch to a different object for fetch play.
> 
> Or only work grip on a bite pillow/bite bar.
> 
> Or better - do both.



hehe.. will have to go shopping  we just have leashes and balls


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

For fetch play, why not give an ous-platz or out-back-down?

I had a pouncer that was biting me on his re-bite. I taught him to out, back up a couple steps and down. He was a hectic chomper from nerve issues and conflict. I learned a lot about grip training from him.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Quick update. 

I got a rubber ball on a rope. He wasn't as thrilled about it at first as he is about the regulr ball, but he did recognize it's a toy and wanted to play with it. It took maybe about 3 tries before it clicked to him that he's gota hang on to this thing and since then, when he grabs, he locks on and starts tugging. 

It's a completely different bite then the one he had on the previoius ball so I'm very happy he picked that up so quickly. It's a very commited and calm lock, although I did manage to snag the ball out from him a couple times, but I think that was more of an issue of him not having a good grip on the toy in the first place. I think this will work a little better with a different shaped object where he can get a good grip on from the start.

Thanks again for the input!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

That's good to hear, Marta! I hope that solving this is as easy as changing his game, and it's not some of the conflict and nerve issues that were mentioned in the thread.


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