# Thoughts on air scent dogs



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

when the woods are loaded with searchers. 
This happened again today. Young girl was ok Just chased her dog who ran after a squirrel and got lost in the woods. She found her way home after 8 hours.
My question is how effective is a non scent discriminating, air scent dog when the woods are covered with volunteer searchers. 
Just one of my pet peeves. Am I wrong about the dogs being next to useless in that situation? More manpower yes, but it would have to be luck for the dogs to hit on the right person. 
Luck is better then nothing...but!
What should a GOOD dog team do in that situation?


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I dunno (well I do) but, this is where I would put a trailing dog out first and go from there.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

That situation is why our dogs (trailing and air scent) are all trained in scent discrimination using a scent article under highly contaminated settings. I can't recall a missing person search where we have been unable to secure a decent scent article (the dog handler should get their own or get one from another dog handler who knows how to collect one) ---- Obviously not the same thing with a disaster dog -- but for wilderness......

That recent, a trailing dog would be the first line choice but you can still work airscent dogs. Just give the LKP to the trailing dogs (and don't park a fire engine or police car on top of it) 

When everybody is out in the woods and it is chaos it also hurts the abilty to use FLIR with the helicopters.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Bob,

I can't comment on straight up SAR dogs, or scent article discrimination training but....My PSDs, and many others I've seen work would actually go to each person involved in the search with the handler and get a whiff of them before the search. I've no doubt that the dog learned through experience to rule out those persons present as odors NOT to pay attention to. Mine did it naturally.

The question is...how many different odors can the dog distinguish from? I've been told 5 but don't know for sure.

If the woods are full of people who the dog hasn't been exposed to for discriminating purposes then, scent article training would be the way to go I'm sure. We don't deploy the dog off lead with innocent persons occupying the search area but have had the dogs on lead with other searchers in the area. It's a pain for sure.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I know bloodhound folks often do the missing man lineup bit I would imagine that finding a target scent using and article is a lot easier than finding whoever is not there and eliminates the problem of trailing for someone who was there recently but left to go home.......

Having social or at the very least not agression trained dogs work offlead gives a margin of safety for such scenarios. We also train our dogs to be used to and ignore other dogs in the sector because often you have overlap with multipe dogs working areas simultaneously (not to mention loose dogs that may or may not pose a problem).


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

You folks just verified (again) one of my reasons for leaving SAR. 
I just happened to see the old team on TV again and, at times, it can make my hair stand on end. They DO have a number of very good finds but so many times I came off of a search with a WTF in my head and answers that never made sense....or received anger for asking!


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## Bill Creasy (Sep 1, 2010)

I have always trained scent discrimination first before starting on trailing/tracking. In this situation it was corect to let your dog smell everyone in the area first an the dog can actually tell which scent is missing. I have a problem with folks saying their dog tracks not trails or using air scent. Dogs use their nose and go with the hot scent. Scent moves so much a dog has to do this or it is trained to smell ground disturbances.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

The point of the non-discriminating area search dog is to be an additional resource that covers more ground quicker and better than 8-10 trained human searchers. In the scenario you described, best application would be to put a trailing dog on scent first to provide direction of travel to area search dog teams running parallel to the trailer. Who cares who finds the victim first as long as they are found safe?

If the masses have turned out, there's no point in putting such dog teams in the same area. Put the dog teams in the areas that are harder to cover due to terrain and vegetation.

Jim Delbridge
Oklahoma


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Hey Jim.....

But why NOT deploy a scent discriminating air scent dog if you have one? If you have a good scent article and the dog is trained that way?

In our recent successful search, over 60 people and one helicopter had seriously contaminated the search area. An air scent dog (using the article) located him.

As always, our initial attack was trailing dogs and they did establish a direction of travel that was used for deploying the air scent dog that we wanted to cover the rough terrain. But because he was discriminating, other resources could still be in the area.

Since many of our searches are at night, untrained searchers can walk right past someone, particularly if they are wering dark clothes and not communicative and I have seen other areas coverd by tight human grid teams looking for an entire body only to come in and have a dog find it because the people walked right past it (bet you dont have kudzu!)

Even when the IC attempts to clear the woods there is often someone out there on their own who is determined they will find the victim. (THAT little trick resulted in cancelling a perfectly good helicopter with FLIR on another search, because there were too many uncontrolled do gooders in the woods)


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Were the 60 people still in the area when it was searched by the dog?

If you have a scent specific air scent dog that can work through 60 people downwind of the "victim" to locate the "victim" and bypass all the others, then by all means use it first. Before applying such a dog, as the team coordinator or trainer, I'd feel more comfortable knowing the dog had demonstrated competence in this in a double blind before hand. I'd love to watch the double blind run.

If the 60 people had vacated the area over 30 minutes previous, it shouldn't make a difference to an air scent dog as they are working the out-gassing from a continual source. For a trailing dog, this would be a challenge, but doable for many.

Over the years, I've set up and also acted as flanking support for area search dogs where people were found in the area that were not the "victim". The handler simply verbally praised the dog and sent it on to keep searching. 60 would be a struggle, but I've had to work scattered tissue-laden human remains where what had already been found had to stay in place and my dogs were asked to find any not already found. I had trained for this previously, so felt confident the dogs could do it. 

I prefer to search at night if given the option as scent conditions are better for what I do (HRD only). 
I've had to work HRD dogs with helicopters flying 80 feet overhead, doesn't affect what they do. It will affect area search dogs as it breaks up the scent flow, but takiing a 15-minute break and you should be good to go.

I have searched in kudzu, though not in Oklahoma. We have wait-a-minute brambles that can grow like grass in areas. I'll take the kudzu over the brambles and blackberry patches. I have these nifty cutters with two six-inch razors on them that slice through the brambles. I've had them for ten years and can't find them any more as I think they are considered too dangerous for the user. I've been offered lots of money for them, but they have a permanent home in my search pack.


Jim Delbridge


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

But I guess the question--why NOT?

In this case the large number of folks had vacated the area but there were, in fact, still people in the area..probably about 20...that the dog could have picked up on.....why NOT train air scent dogs to be scent discriminatory?

No issue with using a non specific dog and you need to train dogs that way too in case you don't have a scent article (but usually we have had no problems with securing a good one by our own handlers so we know it is appropriate) 

The massive and recent/concurrent contamination of the PLS probably contributed to the fact that the trailing dogs deployed first were getting scent but not completing the trail and the assessment of the scent allowed the proper placement of the air scent dog.

**by that I mean a dog whose primary modality is working air scent as opposed to a dog with more ground focus......there are shades of gray and while trailing dogs can airscent and airscent dogs can trail they do have different primary focus on how they work and how they are worked.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

My local team experimented with this about eight years ago. We used the "wagon wheel" to start with a scent article in the center and 12 people on the outer rim. We had limited success with it, but never got into situations where we could apply it so it died a quiet death. I was specializing down my own path and busy with my own experiments leaving further pursuits up to the air scenters.

I still like an air scenter with about six months of trailing on it when it's a puppy and limited exercises through out the dog's career because even in Oklahoma we have calm days in the woods or stills. Nothing gives me more of a warm glow than an air scenter coming up empty putting its nose to the ground to keep searching for scent. It's just givine the dog another tool to apply.

Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Well most air scent dogs here are started off trailing.....then either move to older and more difficult trailing problems or air scent work .....Out west I think the needs and terrain can be different than in the East ..... a lot of our "rural" calls are where each family may own 5-10 acres with a small amount of road frontage........not vast wilderness.....though some areas more so than others.


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

I would have to agree with training an air scent dog to do basic trailing first. I prefer to make sure the dog can take the scent article and has about 8 months of trailing. Then move into air scent training, nothing like a dog with both in the tool box. After all unless the person dropped from the sky they walked to where they stopped. The other thing is! A dog that can scent discriminate work on lead and off is more useful for. Urban and wilderness.


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