# police dog training



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

:yikes:

Out?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc5P8n3LRak&feature=PlayList&p=F4D556AE9431F7FB&index=35


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

That's been around the circuit for quite a while. It is an impressive display though. It also, in my opinion, is an excellant example of what "fight" drive really is, for those that don't believe in it. It sure ain't sport.

DFrost


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

impressive video, even after watching it for the 10th time. the officer popping his dog with his fist is exactly what i used to have to do at times to get the attention of my dear deceased Tessa. worked! never bothered her, but it got her attention


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

ann freier said:


> the officer popping his dog with his fist is exactly what i used to have to do at times to get the attention of my dear deceased Tessa.


The officer popping his dog got bit, after the dog outed he redirected onto the handler, that's why he was swinging the dog in a circle, to get him to out. I'd a popped him one for biting me to.


----------



## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> That's been around the circuit for quite a while. It is an impressive display though. It also, in my opinion, is an excellant example of what "fight" drive really is, for those that don't believe in it. It sure ain't sport.
> 
> DFrost


:roll:

what i see are dogs with a ton of prey drive who have been taught to jump over cars...


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Yeah, but they are pretty jumps. I like the two dog attack over the car, hitting the guy with the hostage. Pretty neat.

DFrost


----------



## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> :roll:
> 
> what i see are dogs with a ton of prey drive who have been taught to jump over cars...


But really, Tim, what more is there than high drive dogs jumping over cars?


----------



## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

This was originally on a National Geographic Documentary which I saw in early 1993, it was shown to us on a training course hence I remember the date. I note the comments on the prey drive, I am aware of Police Departments using these dogs in pairs or individually to deal with everything from armed offenders to potential suicide bombers on foot. The Mals I've seen in the Uk bought off the Belgians as opposed to the French in the clip have been so serious on occasion the dogs never got out of the kennel, the Belgians had to come and collect them again. Cultures, application and political correctness are a huge factor, Police here can't use electric or prong collars. Some of these dogs went off to GSG9, as they appreciated their qualties and had less restrictive training practices. But party tricks I think probably not.....

Mark


----------



## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Mark Horne said:


> This was originally on a National Geographic Documentary which I saw in early 1993, it was shown to us on a training course hence I remember the date. I note the comments on the prey drive, I am aware of Police Departments using these dogs in pairs or individually to deal with everything from armed offenders to potential suicide bombers on foot. The Mals I've seen in the Uk bought off the Belgians as opposed to the French in the clip have been so serious on occasion the dogs never got out of the kennel, the Belgians had to come and collect them again. Cultures, application and political correctness are a huge factor, Police here can't use electric or prong collars. Some of these dogs went off to GSG9, as they appreciated their qualties and had less restrictive training practices. But party tricks I think probably not.....
> 
> Mark


WHAT???
You are kidding me Mark=; Police really can't use prong collars or electric?


----------



## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Justin, they're banned in several countries and Police are not excluded in many of them.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

We had a whole discussion on this!

Prong Collars are LEGAL in the UK, but Police cannot use them.


----------



## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

What Mike said. Same goes for e-collars. Everyone but the police can use them ](*,)


----------



## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Ian Forbes said:


> What Mike said. Same goes for e-collars. Everyone but the police can use them ](*,)


that is just crazy :roll: and is there a reason that police cant use them?


----------



## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

And Check Chains are banned for use by the Police, Prison and Military too. Last Friday they binned a 4yr old experinced K9, good dog, but a bit civil with the bad guys. He was bagging around 60 bad guys a years and helping with loads of arrests...... his crime on a training day he wouldn't out, he was binned there and then. Cost in training/keeping todate approx $55,000, but went free to go home..... His handler is gutted....

As usual here he will will end his days with a Gamekeeper, don't come poaching over here the Gamekeepers have some nice dogs.

Mark


----------



## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Mark Horne said:


> And Check Chains are banned for use by the Police, Prison and Military too. Last Friday they binned a 4yr old experinced K9, good dog, but a bit civil with the bad guys. He was bagging around 60 bad guys a years and helping with loads of arrests...... his crime on a training day he wouldn't out, he was binned there and then. Cost in training/keeping todate approx $55,000, but went free to go home..... His handler is gutted....
> 
> As usual here he will will end his days with a Gamekeeper, don't come poaching over here the Gamekeepers have some nice dogs.
> 
> Mark


 
omg I cant believe what Im reading....he got ditched just for that?


----------



## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Do they rat themselves out? Do they only train while under the watchful eye of anti dog people or something? Then again the cops don't carry guns either, right?


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Choke chains, pinch collars and Ecollars were banned for use by the UK police in a political correctness storm after the Essex incident in which a trainer directed one of his trainees to string his dog up and kick him repeatedly. The dog died, several officers were charged and three (I think it was) went to jail for a couple of months. This was in the late 1990's. 

None of those tools had anything to do with the incident but in true political correctness fashion they banned anything that even looked like it could cause a problem. 

There are quite a few officers in the UK who still use the Ecollar but they don't do so anywhere they can be seen.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've hunted with a number of terrier men from Great Britian. Every one of them has told me that animal rights people over there are really fanatics.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I've hunted with a number of terrier men from Great Britian. Every one of them has told me that animal rights people over there are really fanatics.



Worse than California??? WOW! They must be real loonies!


----------



## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> Do they rat themselves out? Do they only train while under the watchful eye of anti dog people or something? Then again the cops don't carry guns either, right?


Al,

Some police/military/prison dog handlers may use pinch/check/e-collars out of sight of the public and authorities, but there is of course a risk...

The fact that dogs can be adused with sticks, fists, boots etc. seems to have been lost on our politicians and some of the animal rights lobby. Hell, why not make our forces train dogs with one arm behind their back.

Regular police do not carry guns here, either.


----------



## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Worse than California??? WOW! They must be real loonies!


I don't know if they're worse than in California, but some of them are pretty 'misguided'.


----------



## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> Choke chains, pinch collars and Ecollars were banned for use by the UK police in a political correctness storm after the Essex incident in which a trainer directed one of his trainees to string his dog up and kick him repeatedly. The dog died, several officers were charged and three (I think it was) went to jail for a couple of months. This was in the late 1990's.


I remember that incident well it got a lot of media coverage and there was lots of public outcry. One thing I never understood was why the trainee went along with what the trainer had directed. If a trainer had asked me to do that I would have told him where to go.


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I've hunted with a number of terrier men from Great Britian. Every one of them has told me that animal rights people over there are really fanatics.


They are. I argue with some of them on a list in the UK called Dogchat. In those conversations they'd quickly go to personal attacks and name calling. They'd repeatedly cite the same arguments against them over and over no matter how many times it had been done or those comments had been refuted. 

It was so bad that no one who asked for info about them could get it. The threads would immediately be take over by the fanatics and hysterics and it would be impossible to sift through the dross to get to the responses so the questions. 

I finally had to get the moderator to allow for two "sticky" threads, one pro and one anti – Ecollar. If you've made up your mind about them, (either way) you can't post in the "other" thread. That's kept the endless bickering elsewhere so someone who is looking for info on either side can get it. 

Open discussion is still allowed on other threads and the antis pose the same old tired arguments over and over again. Recently they've been posting video from YouTube and have been arguing that they show "stress: and "anxiety" and how "appalling" that is. 

They overlook the fact that any learning involves stress and that stress is present in the so-called "kinder, gentler methods" but that it's masked by the dog's frantic efforts to get the next treat. 



Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Worse than California??? WOW! They must be real loonies!


They are. The conversation I'm referring to has gone on for over 750 posts, and 77 pages! 

If anyone wants to take a look, here's a link to that conversation. It started when someone found the Leerburg Forum and posted about it. It quickly turned to Ecollars. Please feel free to join the conversation no matter which side you're on. It could use some sanity. 

http://www.petfriendlyworld.com/chatforum/showthread.php?t=7945


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Ian Forbes said:


> Some police/military/prison dog handlers may use pinch/check/e-collars out of sight of the public and authorities, but there is of course a risk...


Oh definitely. If those folks are caught they'll probably be fired. But they realize that the so-called "kinder, gentler methods" aren't working on their dogs. They're great for some things but sometimes fail for some things and some dogs. 



Ian Forbes said:


> The fact that dogs can be adused with sticks, fists, boots etc. seems to have been lost on our politicians and some of the animal rights lobby. Hell, why not make our forces train dogs with one arm behind their back.


Too much common sense there Ian. Can't have any of that when we're dealing with political correctness. 






Hil Harrison said:


> One thing I never understood was why the trainee went along with what the trainer had directed. If a trainer had asked me to do that I would have told him where to go.


Of course I can't answer for him but I know that this dog had bitten him several times, too much conflict in the training I'd bet. Have that happen a few times and the average handler becomes afraid of his dog and is desperate for a solution. When your experienced trainer tells you to do something, especially right after another bite, you'll do it without much thought. Not to excuse the behavior but it's a bit like soldiers charging up a hill into a machine gun. 

I doubt that the handler would have done this in a calm situation but since he had just been bitten AGAIN I think he was more susceptible to the trainer's orders and less able to use his common sense. 

I wonder how many times before the trainer had made this same situation? The only reason that it came to light this time was that the dog died. 

There's no place for such techniques in training a dog. It's abuse, pure and simple. But it has nothing to do with any of the tools that were banned.


----------



## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

Our Animal fanatics are in the same league as your Anti-Abortion fanatics, small bombs under cars are not unusual. 

I actually carry a gun, but it's locked inside an armoury in our vehicle, I have to radio the Senior Officer for authority to arm for a specific incident, and then to conduct a specific tactic. The authority is immediately withdrawn afterwards e.g. if I arrest an armed drug dealer outside his home I would not be allowed to remain armed to go into the house and search it. I learned my craft in the days of the IRA so when some of my team went to spend a few weeks patrolling with the Chicago and PHILLIDELPHIA Police we were used to not carrying. Sadly all officers refused Outright to come at our expense and patrol in the Uk for a few weeks unless they could carry. Its a crazy world!

We're straying a bit, I hope it's a bit of an interesting incite.

Mark


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I figure ya'll in the UK think we have a cowboy mentality, as you know all our cops are armed. Occasionally we are undergunned, but armed none the less. Personally, I have adopted the philosopy; I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. It's hard to believe there are still officers in locations such as yours that are not armed. I have read however, that more and more British officers are now carrying arms.

DFrost


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Anyone see the British movie "Hot Fuzz"?


----------



## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

You know, I really did'nt have high expectations for "Hot Fuzz", but I laughed my ass off throughout the whole movie.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Excellent! Forgot about that movie. Must put it on my Netflix queue.


----------

