# Supplements?????



## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

I have a five year old male Mal, who is a police work dog. It is one of those go crazy and bark and spin in the cruiser never stopping for eight hours Mals. I think because of this his endurance can can be low for searches and work. I want to know if I am feeding well and if there is anything that i could add to help him have more endurance. He has no weight problems at all. He looks great and he is about 72-75lbs. Here is his current diet.

Breakfast:
2cups Wellness Core Ocean
1/3-1/2 can of 95% all meat canned food (various chicken, beef, venison)
400IU of all natural Vit E
2 Squirts of Grizzly Salmon Oil

Dinner is the same except Vit E only in the morning and on really hard training days sprinkle some Ester Vit C powder on his meals according to weight.

Sometimes after really hard nights it can take him a couple of days to recover and never mind compounding hard days in a row. 
Anything missing?????? that could help him excel? Sometimes on training days he only gets one meal so he does not go on a full stomach.
Thanks


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## Tamara Champagne (Jan 20, 2009)

Hi, I use a supplement made by Animal Naturals called k9 Super Fuel. It seems to have really helped my Dobie bitch in increasing endurance and also recovery time. I have noticed a big difference in recovering especially from big trial weekends or long seminars. Before she started on the supplement, it took her a few days to get over a long weekend, but not I have no problem with her at all.

Also, her muscle mass has improved greatly. I always get comments about hos muscular she is.

The product is all natural human grade and I would highly recommend it. It is awsome for the dogs and they just LOVE it!

I feed daily with food, and a scoopr or so on water after a hard work out.

Tamara


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Maybe a bit of glycogen replenishment with a maltodextrin supplement like http://10squaredracing.com/store/me...tore_Code=TSR&Product_Code=DPSREV&Category_Co
de=
or http://www.howlingdogalaska.com/maltodex.html

Sometime if dogs seem a little droopy post ex it is due to dehydration- it helps to really get the water in them so maybe baited water an hour or two before and immediately after exercise. I would go the baited water (canned food or anything the dog really likes in the water) route before supplements as water and meat is cheaper. If he is a barker and spinner in the crate sometimes dogs like that lose alot of water in drool and panting and getting all jazzed up.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Tamara Champagne said:


> Hi, I use a supplement made by Animal Naturals called k9 Super Fuel. It seems to have really helped my Dobie bitch in increasing endurance and also recovery time. I have noticed a big difference in recovering especially from big trial weekends or long seminars. Before she started on the supplement, it took her a few days to get over a long weekend, but not I have no problem with her at all.
> 
> Also, her muscle mass has improved greatly. I always get comments about hos muscular she is.
> 
> ...


How long would 1 pound of K9 SUper Fuel last you? Enough to notice a difference/evaluate?


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Many people in my club, including my TD, are using K9 Super Fuel and love it. The only reason I haven't is my girl with the grain/rice allergies. Getting into something like that is the last thing she would need....


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

so what exactly is IN K9 super fuel??


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How about a crack in the head and a down command, or am I asking too much ??


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## Carlo Hernandez (Aug 30, 2008)

ann freier said:


> so what exactly is IN K9 super fuel??


You can view the label here

http://www.k9power.com/sfuel.htm


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How about a crack in the head and a down command, or am I asking too much ??


  

i'm thinking that would have the opposite effect the OP is trying to achieve jeff. helpful in some situations however.


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

I also use K9 Super Fuel.

Another thought, we had a trainer come to the club, who reckoned I wasn't feeding my GSD bitch enough fat, she would burn herself out very quickly in protection. I began adding a tablespoon of goose fat to her food and it really seemed to help.


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## Tamara Champagne (Jan 20, 2009)

I buy the 15 lb bag andit lasts a VERY long time. She has been on it for about a year, but was off it in the winter due to some elevated liver enzymes caused by a blockage. I would say that bag probably lasts me about 4 or so months. She gets 1-2 scoops/day, more if there is a need such as really hot weather, or a trial etc...

I would say to notice it's full effect I would have to have the dog on it for a month - every day. You should notice the energy difference almost with right away though after the first week or so.


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## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How about a crack in the head and a down command, or am I asking too much ??


Nope I have reached through the cage and landed a right, leash running up front to pinch collar, e-collar, etc..... All hard to do driving 120mph, talking on radio, and operate lights and siren.


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## Tamara Champagne (Jan 20, 2009)

Oh, I saw someone mentioned dehydration....and that is certainly a cause for a tired dog. Animal Naturals sells another product called Go-Dog I know, I totally sound like an advertisement for this company LOL but I don't sell the stuff...it just works awesome! 

Go-Dog gets mixed with water and fed during and after exercises - It contains a vasodilator which expands blood vessles and increases circulation. Keeps the dogs on their toes and they like the tast so getting water in to them is no issue at all.

Here is a link to Go-Dog

http://www.an-nat.com/enduranceboost_godogproduct.html


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

ann freier said:


> so what exactly is IN K9 super fuel??


http://www.showandsport.com/canine_superfuel.htm
We have been using it for our schutzhund and agility dogs for years.. became a dealer because we were so impressed. 

http://www.showandsport.com/canine_performance.htm


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Louise Jollyman said:


> I also use K9 Super Fuel.
> 
> Another thought, we had a trainer come to the club, who reckoned I wasn't feeding my GSD bitch enough fat, she would burn herself out very quickly in protection. I began adding a tablespoon of goose fat to her food and it really seemed to help.


Where do you get goose fat? Is it rendered?


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## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

A few things come to mind. Dehydration is one. I found that my dog worked far longer, with more energy when I added electrolyte powder to her water. I don't think it's necessarily the electrolytes, but more a combination of that and the fact that she will drink more water. She can get "too busy" to drink enough so the added flavor makes it worth her time to stop and drink. There are different kinds and some taste better than others apparently so shop around for one your dog likes. They come in powder or liquid form.

Second is adding a digestive enzyme supplement or a vitamin combo supplement that has them included like Nupro. This will allow for more efficient digestion with less energy expenditure on your dogs part so all of the nutrients in the food are absorbed more easily.

I would also add different oils for variety. You are feeding a fish based food and using fish oil. Try adding on a rotating basis canola, olive and coconut (which is actually a solid at room temp).


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is the difference between the super fuel and the go dog ??


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## Tamara Champagne (Jan 20, 2009)

Super Fuel is something that is given daily to help build muscle, release lactic acid build up and also has high amount of fat to help with weight maintenance.

Go-Dog should be given only during exercise to help carry oxygen which will help with endurance and recovery time.

They are both different products that should be used as outlined on the label. I think the Go-Dog has a daily intake maximum and also limits the amount you should give a dog in one feeding. 

SuperFuel you can be a little more creative with. I give usually with BOTH meals, and/or after a really hard woukout. The only limit to how much you can give will really depend on your dogs stomach and what they can handle as it is pretty rich. You would probably want to work up to the full dose of super Fuel.

Honestly I have noticed such a HUGE difference in my girl with this stuff. We trialed last weekend and it was HOT first hot day of the year for us and I kept her hydrated with Go-Dog and she was never over heating and had no issues coping with the heat at all. Even on the field, she was pretty energetic considering.


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## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

I tried the GO-Dog and he turned his nose up at it. Could you mix some of the powder with his canned food and water for his meals?????? I feed him about four hours before shift and at the end of the shift. I think he would get it then.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That is what I would be afraid of. I have put a little gatorade in the water, and Buko is not a fan, unless really really thirsty.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> That is what I would be afraid of. I have put a little gatorade in the water, and Buko is not a fan, unless really really thirsty.


I'm not sure if dogs can use electrolites the same way people do. 
Connie?


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> I'm not sure if dogs can use electrolites the same way people do.
> Connie?


I would also love to hear the answer to this. There is an apple flavored electrolite powder you add to water for equines, makes me wonder if it would work for the dogs too?


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## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

Everybody needs and uses electrolytes. Human, dog, ape - K-9 Gatorade!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

David Stucenski said:


> I have a five year old male Mal, who is a police work dog. It is one of those go crazy and bark and spin in the cruiser never stopping for eight hours Mals. I think because of this his endurance can can be low for searches and work. I want to know if I am feeding well and if there is anything that i could add to help him have more endurance. He has no weight problems at all. He looks great and he is about 72-75lbs. Here is his current diet.
> 
> Breakfast:
> 2cups Wellness Core Ocean
> ...


I've been refraining from comment, but I can't hold it in any longer! :-o 

I would begin increasing the salmon oil. Assuming you're using Grizzly's in the dispenser bottle, you could use 6 "squirts" per day. Possibly even higher. This will increase how much energy your dog is getting, without adding too much volume to his food. According to this article: http://sportsvet.com/Art3.html Fat is metabolized at a lower temperature, which may help dogs working in hot temperatures. The worst dog I've had for maintaining weight while active required 1/4 - 1/2 cup beef or chicken fat in addition to the salmon oil (6 "squirts") - for a 40 - 45 lb dog. The dog had amazing endurance. Notice that is will take 4 - 6 weeks of diet change before you see an effect.

The other thing I would do is adjust the feeding schedule. Don't feed within 4 hours of working, UNLESS it is within 15 minutes of working. Dogs performing endurance activities (like your dog) benefit from small frequent snacks during activity. Source: Small Animal Clinical Nutrition

Baited water (as other poster suggest) may be beneficial. While it may not give an immediate effect, it's seems your dog would have better long term results with a fat/oil based "bait" rather than a sugar/salt.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Most race vets advise against electrolytes for dogs unless for a medical condition - but just for activity keep in mind - dogs don't sweat (and lose salt etc) as do horses and humans. Dogs do dissipate heat by panting (and drooling) and lose WATER - thus replace the water. I have articles on it somewhere - gotta find it....


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How about a crack in the head and a down command, or am I asking too much ??


 
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I know I am kind of the village idiot around here, but I got to agree with this as being the logical answer. I don’t know if Jeff wants me agreeing because when the village idiot agrees with you …. Well you know. Not that there is anything wrong with feeding the k9 a better diet for more energy, but what good is more energy if the dog just runs in faster circles in the cage? I get to train with several LE K9s around here and they all like the crazy crack head dogs. In a way I can see their point; they tell me there dogs very rarely have to work for long periods of time. If they have to do a drug search in a bad area they want to get it done and get out. Or they get called to look for dope in a car, it don’t take long to search a car. Even the patrol dogs typically just search a house to look for a person it goes quick. I also have had the opportunity to train with people who supply military working dogs that might be out for 20 hours at a time. Although they are not working the entire 20 hours they are working on and off and sometimes for long periods looking for explosives. These guys like a calmer k9 that listens and can get some sleep anyplace anytime. I don’t have the skill and wouldn’t know where to start but it seems to me the answer here would be to have the dog be calmer for the 6 hours he is in the car not in use. Any suggestions? Maybe a good “cut the Shi*” command? I have heard some say they are not into obedience because it can take away some drive. I don’t know enough about dog training to agree or disagree with this… what do you think? And I’m not sure the crack head dogs actually find the dope any faster than the calmer k9s either? I would think it should only take a week or two to have a calmer dog when needed? I would imagine you can get this training done when you are doing a bit less than 120 so it works when you need it to? [/FONT]


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How about a crack in the head and a down command, or am I asking too much ??


I know I am kind of the village idiot around here, but I got to agree with this as being the logical answer. I don’t know if Jeff wants me agreeing because when the village idiot agrees with you …. Well you know. Not that there is anything wrong with feeding the k9 a better diet for more energy, but what good is more energy if the dog just runs in faster circles in the cage? I get to train with several LE K9s around here and they all like the crazy crack head dogs. In a way I can see their point; they tell me there dogs very rarely have to work for long periods of time. If they have to do a drug search in a bad area they want to get it done and get out. Or they get called to look for dope in a car, it don’t take long to search a car. Even the patrol dogs typically just search a house to look for a person it goes quick. I also have had the opportunity to train with people who supply military working dogs that might be out for 20 hours at a time. Although they are not working the entire 20 hours they are working on and off and sometimes for long periods looking for explosives. These guys like a calmer k9 that listens and can get some sleep anyplace anytime. I don’t have the skill and wouldn’t know where to start but it seems to me the answer here would be to have the dog be calmer for the 6 hours he is in the car not in use. Any suggestions? Maybe a good “cut the Shi*” command? I have heard some say they are not into obedience because it can take away some drive. I don’t know enough about dog training to agree or disagree with this… what do you think? And I’m not sure the crack head dogs actually find the dope any faster than the calmer k9s either? I would think it should only take a week or two to have a calmer dog when needed? I would imagine you can get this training done when you are doing a bit less than 120 so it works when you need it to? [/font]


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris , 

For me in a PSD it is once again dependant on the particular dog . Some crackhead dogs can run around in circles in the back of the squad , get out and do a long hot track and never get tired . Others will exhaust themselves quick . As for quick or slow workers it doesn't matter to me as long as the dog can focus on the task when it's needed to work . 

My first partner could go all day and never get tired and through some hard work initially , he focused well and caught tons of badguys and found alot of evidence and a fair amount of narcotics . 

My current dog is non stop in the back of the car and can tire himself out . In a search he has learned to pace himself . I've used some supplements from time to time mostly on very hot days to try and help his stamina .

I do use something similiar to Jeff's advice though . I use an e-collar and when he starts spinning and barking in the back of the squad I just command him to lay down . I had to use the e-collar at first , now very rarely . He knows to chill out . 

OB is important with PSD's or any working dog but done wrong it can really screw up a K9's search work .


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Heat kills my dogs, the only thing that seems to help is keeping them wet. You need one of those hot tubs in your trunk with cold water in it.


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## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

But BTW be careful with all those supps. Some do nothing else than eating the notes off your wallet, others can even decrease your dogs performance or do harm.


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