# For those of you who wonder why I like the GSD best



## Jeff Oehlsen

This dog rocks.

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist...cours-ring-st-lye-temo&ajax_rnd=1238655476992


----------



## Erik Berg

From SCH-lines I suppose any pedigree on the dog?


----------



## Christopher Jones

Good dog and good training as well.


----------



## Gillian Schuler

I enjoyed that!!

Here's the dog's pedigree:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/5/466304.html


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

THAT is a pedigree. Notice the perfect thresholds. 

I liked how his tail was just about straight up on the DOH.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood

Erik Berg said:


> From SCH-lines I suppose any pedigree on the dog?



Worse, show lines  Arminius.. Wienerau..

Nice dog. Why don't you trade Buko in for a nice GSD Jeff?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Cause he is my dog. I might add a dog.

Long ago, those show lines were not show lines. The Brothers put out some nice dogs back before they got all old and fell for the show money.

Bastards. : )

Look what they crossed the show dogs to. Half is in a lot of strong dogs pedigree. Wish I had met that dog. Curious about him.


----------



## Gillian Schuler

My older dog also has a showline in his pedigree way back. It's not uncommon to find the odd one or two in working line pedigrees although I doubt that 20 years ago they were so much better than today. A colleague of mine said they tried to bring a touch of "beauty" into the "beasts". 
The breeder's website is interesting:

http://guerrierducrepuscule.free.fr/


----------



## Chris McDonald

For those of you who wonder why i like the GSD

Thanks for letting me know why Jeff, now I can sleep at night… it used to keep me up woundering


----------



## Julie Blanding

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> This dog rocks.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist...cours-ring-st-lye-temo&ajax_rnd=1238655476992


I agree! That is an incredible dog, and obviously top notch training. WOW! So clear.
Thanks for posting that, Jeff. Super!! \\/

Julie


----------



## Gillian Schuler

Chris McDonald said:


> For those of you who wonder why i like the GSD
> 
> Thanks for letting me know why Jeff, now I can sleep at night… it used to keep me up woundering


That made my day, if not my nights.....


----------



## Mike Di Rago

Jeff,
One word, WOW!
Just for my information. In the Arettee, the dog gets 16 pts. What is a perfect mark and if he lost points, where did he lose the points?
When guarding the basket, did he lose a point? Is the guarding of the basket always this long or does the judge decide how long the exercise is?
Sorry I don't know about Ring, but you sure got me interested now!
Mike


----------



## Khoi Pham

Dude, you said Sch dogs are shits, Sch produced shits offsrping, Sch can't do rings sport, almost every grandparents and great great... grand parents of that dog you like are SCH3 dog, I guess you finally see the light of day. (-:


----------



## Erica Boling

Awesome dog and video! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Sara Findley

Mike Di Rago said:


> Jeff,
> One word, WOW!
> Just for my information. In the Arettee, the dog gets 16 pts. What is a perfect mark and if he lost points, where did he lose the points?
> When guarding the basket, did he lose a point? Is the guarding of the basket always this long or does the judge decide how long the exercise is?
> Sorry I don't know about Ring, but you sure got me interested now!
> Mike


in the arettee he lost points on the second recall. The dog didnt come all the way back to heel position. Not sure what the perfect mark is, maybe 20 pts?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

You guys are hopeless. Wondering where he lost points. DID YOU NOT SEE THE OBJECT GUARD ????

DEE DE DEE.


----------



## Mike Di Rago

Jeff,
I was simply asking, because I know nothing about Ring and thought you could answer about the rules.
Mike


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

The object guard he lost a point for the second bite on the second attempt.

The call off he lost points for not going all the way back, and I THINK slowing down before the whistle.

I am just a bit overwhelmed at this dog, so forgive me. Did you see the object guard ?? Did you see the escort ?? He was good enough the decoy gave him a pat on the head. I have not seen that before, not at a regional championship.


----------



## Konnie Hein

This is awesome. Thanks for posting this! 

That object guard was really cool.


----------



## Michelle Reusser

Dog has a great understanding of the object guard, just don't put any eggs in his basket, lol. Alot of dogs will get lured away from the object, this guy wasn't having any of that. Too bad he has that gay Asko type tail you like so much Jeff.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Later on in the selectiffs......I think.

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist...e-2008/video/x5nclg_ulko-a-dijon-jury-c_sport

No gay Asko crap in the pedigree. : P


----------



## Mike Di Rago

Jeff,
I am a GSD guy, and with no knowledge of Ring, but with that video you got me interested!
I will try to get in touch with Geof Empey this summer.
Mike


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I just want that dog. Hopefully sometime in the next couple of years I am going to go to France and find me a few dogs, hopefully of this caliber.

I also want to watch them train, as I have a feeling that it is not the same that is done with Mals.

I love the head fake the dog gives the decoy. They are all patting the dog.

I also like that they doubled up on a Jello daughter. WTF ?? Right ?

I hope that you give ring a try. It is such a good sport, sooooooo much better than gay old wannabe PSA and Sch. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 

Speaking of which, I got a nice invitation to my "favorite" sport.


----------



## Terry Fisk

Awesome, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Tina Rempel

Now THAT was amazing. =D> =D> =D> 

Jeff, thank you for posting this.


----------



## Konnie Hein

I noticed in the other video that he doesn't clear the max height of the palisade or the max distance of the long jump. Is it common for dogs to not clear these heights/distances? Do the Mals typically complete those exercises at their max's?


----------



## Mike Scheiber

That was fun The Shepherd looked/appeared to me like he was thinking and countering all the wile during the routine.
In one part of the basket guard he looked like he was looking rite into the eyes of the decoy rather than watching all of the tricks and distractions the decoy was offering. Not sure if that's good or bad but the dog kept the basket safe.


----------



## susan tuck

Totally cool, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Geoff Empey

Mike Di Rago said:


> Just for my information. In the Arettee, the dog gets 16 pts. What is a perfect mark and if he lost points, where did he lose the points?
> 
> Sorry I don't know about Ring, but you sure got me interested now!


Hey Mike,

In the arreter attack some of the points are based on how well the dog does in the attaque d'efface as they are set up exactly the same. They score it on where the recall is done i.e. 1m, 2m, 3m, etc and how willing the dog is to engage. If the dog hesitates it shows the judge that the dog was coded that it was a stop attack. So they would be penalized for that. 

So if you are still interested in Ring. We are back out in the field in Brossard at Guy Bertrand's Club Canin International training facility on Des Prairie. This weekend we are scheduled both Sat and Sun at 9am. I'm going to try to make the trip up from Ottawa on Saturday. PM me if you need further directions or info.

BTW Mike we have 3 really nice GSDs working with us right now. All working level 1 and 2 at this point from the foundation we are laying on them. Some will be trying their Brevets this summer I hope.


----------



## Michele McAtee

THe threshold question was the first one I had the first time I saw guard in action. It seemed everydog had a different zone. Now this GSD, never have seen anything like it before. Very cool. 

It seems I've seen some silent dogs on guard too. Are they supposed to bark (like the bark and hold in schH--lol--I know you'll love that one Jeff) or is silence an option?


----------



## ann schnerre

THAT was great. the decoy REALLY worked him over on the object guard. i don't know enough about ring to comment on the technical aspects, but IMO, the dog wasn't given any breaks at all, indeed, he was worked throughout. awesome dog....and he was serious about his stuff!! just wish there was ring near me cause that's what i wanted to get into when i bought Brix.


----------



## Tanya Beka

Loved the object guard! Great decoy...I was sure he was going to get a finger bitten off!


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

That is a great video. I like it when the dog's smarter than the decoy .


----------



## ann schnerre

i like it when the decoy's smart enough to "play" the dog and the dog's smart enough not to fall for it, as in this case. i saw a decoy that tried a LOT of stuff to lose the dog points, and the dog (thru awesome training, BTW), wasn't going for it. 

decoy "lost", dog WON!!! that's what it's about isn't it??


----------



## Drew Peirce

Yeah, he's shit hot.
Probably be just as good on the street too.


----------



## Darryl Richey

Jeff,

Since you got an invite to your "favorite" sport come on out and play.
No need to be scared...we will take it easy on you.


----------



## Geoff Empey

Konnie Hein said:


> I noticed in the other video that he doesn't clear the max height of the palisade or the max distance of the long jump. Is it common for dogs to not clear these heights/distances? Do the Mals typically complete those exercises at their max's?


It is not common at the selectif level for the dogs to have any of the dogs do less than max. A handler can opt for less height but with the corresponding loss of points. 

i.e. For the Hurdle .. 

Hurdle: Points obtained in a Successful Jump

Height 0,90 meter = 8 points 0,95 = 10 points 1.0 meter =12 points 1.05 =14 points 1.1 meters =16 points 1.15 =18 points 1.2 meters =20 points. 

If they miss one of the out or return jumps they can still get 1/2 of the points. The Long Jump is only an out with no return. In Mondio the Palisade is only an out with a safety ramp but in French Ring the Palisade is out and return.


----------



## Geoff Empey

Michele McAtee said:


> It seems I've seen some silent dogs on guard too. Are they supposed to bark (like the bark and hold in schH--lol--I know you'll love that one Jeff) or is silence an option?


They don't get penalized for barking just tires them out! The only Ring exercise where barking is scored is the Blind Search not unlike SchH. That's a Ring II exercise. The diff between the 2 sports is with FR the bark and hold after the search preludes an escape with gunfire, once on the escape from the blind and once when the dog bites. Then the exercise morphs into an unassisted from the handler decoy escort where the decoy will try to escape 3-4 times.


----------



## Michele McAtee

Thanks Geoff.


----------



## Bob Scott

OUT****ING standing! He was totally aware of the basket no matter how he was being manipulated. 
Not only did he physically look like my Thunder but he even forged on the fuss just like Thunder. :lol: :wink:


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Looks like a nice dog. He'd probably jump better if they took a few pounds off of him. I initially thought it was just an FR demo just because they have him so heavy, I'm surprised they would trial him like that. 

I wasn't clear on the title at the beginning of the video, are they saying the dog has competed in the Selectifs, or are they saying that video is of a Selectif trial?


----------



## Konnie Hein

I was thinking he was fat too.


----------



## Erik Berg

There is a policedog who is pretty popular as a stud for the moment here in Sweden, he also have some of the same French ring dogs on his mothers side like the dog on the film, seems to produce well too.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/561552.html


----------



## Christen Adkins

Awesome video, thanks for sharing. That's one nice GSD.


----------



## Connie Sutherland

Gillian Schuler said:


> I enjoyed that!!



Me too! Twice!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Can one of you internet resource experts find out who owns that dog ??

I have the oil and water thing going with this computer today.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Looks like a nice dog. He'd probably jump better if they took a few pounds off of him. I initially thought it was just an FR demo just because they have him so heavy, I'm surprised they would trial him like that. 


He jumped well enough, the ****ing breed has to start somewhere. There are plenty of Mals that cannot jump for shit. Did you see the object guard ??? Did you see the escort ?? Most GSD's are getting punked in those exersizes.


----------



## Megan Bays

Jeff you're always talking about thresholds in dogs, and I'm trying to learn more about them.

Could you give your opinion on this dog's thresholds?

I did see the object gaurd and the escort, and thougt both were outstanding  .


----------



## Sara Findley

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I wasn't clear on the title at the beginning of the video, are they saying the dog has competed in the Selectifs, or are they saying that video is of a Selectif trial?


 I think it said regionals at the end?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Go to you tube and watch most dogs doing the object guard. Look at as many Mals as you can.

Then go look at as many off breeds that you can find.

Write down how the dog reacted.

As with any sport, training does take a part in how the dog responds, but for me if I look at something close enough, I can see training, VS the dog.

I am very good at it in Sch, and getting better in ring.

That GSD had absolute intensity, and a clear understanding that the idiot decoy was going to bring his dumb ass close enough to get bit.

So the problem with thresholds is they put the block on the dog being able to access drive. 

Just watch the dogs. Most people will watch the decoy. Watch the same films of dogs you like over and over, and you will start to see the differences in thresholds.

No way I have the verbal skills to type about how to read and judge thresholds.

I would think that fairly obvious by the responses I get from some people here. So that is your homework ! Then pick three that you really like, and three where the dog is getting punked bad, and tell us why they are great and why they are bad.

This should get you going.

Have you started that pup on the object guard, or are you going for that lame-o SDA ???


----------



## Megan Bays

Thanks for the reply Jeff.

As for the pup, I'm letting him just be a pup and doing lots of marker work with him.

I'm afraid of messing him up, so I'm not done anything right now other than OB, exposure to everything I can think of and some basic puppy agility. We're going to start doing runaways this weekend, and I've beeing doing a little bit of scent pad work (I don't care for, hence my reluctance).

I don't really know how to go about starting this stuff on my own, so I'm just reading and watching as many videos as I can. I'm going to try to make a trip up to Mike's soon so he can help me get started on the right foot, instead of helping me fix any mistakes I've made.

He has all the genetic potential there, so I've been thinking about trying to do both Ring and SDA.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

That whole let the pup be a pup thing is gonna **** you in the end. Get going !


----------



## Megan Bays

Well what do you think I should be doing with a step by step analysis? 

We can take this to PMs if you want.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Too hard. Make Suttle do it. I would be typing for days. Just as a side note, look at that video of that little pup doing the FR. That wasn't first time out.


----------



## Megan Bays

He will, I just need to get my butt down there! I've not had the chance to make the trip since getting Ike.

Chris sent me a link to the video, and I have watched it. It's really good, the pup does a super job.

Hopefully I'll have Ike doing that in no time (of course after I go to Mike's  ) !


----------



## ann schnerre

what are the criteria in the object guard re: when is the dog to bite/turn loose? i just loved that first vid, watching the 2nd just made clear how good the first one was. not that the second was bad by any means.

a link for ring rules (just to once again expose my ignorance--was this french ring? i assume it was b/c it's in france, but WDIK?) ? and how is french different than mondio?


----------



## Geoff Empey

ann freier said:


> what are the criteria in the object guard re: when is the dog to bite/turn loose?


 Any bite under 1.5m doesn't lose points. Anything after that it is 1 point per meter. The job of the decoy is to steal the basket by any way that doesn't involve brutality. The dog loses points by the basket being displaced or touched by the decoy, or not returning to the basket after the 5 second bite than the dog would lose points for being pulled away from the basket or not returning to it to keep engaging the decoy. 



ann freier said:


> a link for ring rules (just to once again expose my ignorance--was this french ring? i assume it was b/c it's in france, but WDIK?) ? and how is french different than mondio?


http://www.ringsport.org/Rulebook2009.pdf

Yes that was French Ring ..  

Mondioring is similar to French Ring with an off-leash, no-collar obedience, agility and protection segment .... I compete in FR so I don't know all the ins and outs of Mondio so anybody else who knows better please pipe in. 

Most likely the greatest difference is the “opposition” that the dog faces with the decoy. There is supposed to be no stick hits with the baton in Mondio, the opposition comes with more environmental distraction with less physical decoy opposition. 

FR level II all jumps are in the program. But with MR all 3 jumps are not in the program until MR level III. The Palisade only has an out jump with a ramp in Mondio while in FR the palisade it is both out and return with no ramp. 

The defense of handler is different as well where in FR the setup is always the same i.e. conversation and the decoy passes the handler and dog to follow the team while the dog is vigilant until the decoy contacts the handler or in the case of a Brevet gunfire. MR the DOH seems to be different every time using again environmental distractions to prove the dogs vigilance in the exercise.

I think that is the gist of it ..


----------



## Tina Rempel

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ...... Did you see the object guard ??? Did you see the escort ?? Most GSD's are getting punked in those exersizes.


 
I also saw the big grins on the decoys faces. That said so much. \\/


----------



## ann schnerre

thanks so much geoff--you're good at explaining things on the net  

so in training the OG, how do you train a 5-second bite and release? that sounds difficult to me at first glance....


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

In Mondio the decoy has to stay still for two seconds after the dog bites. usually the signal to the dog is the decoy leaving. It is trained different ways.


----------



## ann schnerre

thanks jeff. i would ask for more detail, but first i need to get a bh on little booger-butt, and i'm afraid too much extraneous info may give me a skull-ache....


----------



## Drew Peirce

Here's more empirical evidence, tragically this dog died the same year the vid was shot, he would have been bred, a lot.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/filiph-vom-haus-pixner-bsp-2007/601589835/?icid=VIDURVPET04


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Drew Peirce said:


> Here's more empirical evidence, tragically this dog died the same year the vid was shot, he would have been bred, a lot.
> 
> http://video.aol.com/video-detail/filiph-vom-haus-pixner-bsp-2007/601589835/?icid=VIDURVPET04


:evil: MONSTER :evil:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

That dog would have been on my list. Would have loved to see him doing ring.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

There was a GSD that was amazing in the 2006 Karen Corporal video for the Championship. He is Ulko's father.

http://translate.google.com/transla...Cr%C3%A9puscule&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us

That is what I found.

Here it is around 3:27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_7JQT6lcys


----------



## Drew Peirce

Damn, he was the class of that field.


----------



## Tina Rempel

Drew Peirce said:


> Here's more empirical evidence, tragically this dog died the same year the vid was shot, he would have been bred, a lot.
> 
> http://video.aol.com/video-detail/filiph-vom-haus-pixner-bsp-2007/601589835/?icid=VIDURVPET04


What an amazing performance.


----------



## Julie Blanding

Drew Peirce said:


> Here's more empirical evidence, tragically this dog died the same year the vid was shot, he would have been bred, a lot.
> 
> http://video.aol.com/video-detail/filiph-vom-haus-pixner-bsp-2007/601589835/?icid=VIDURVPET04



WOW what a powerful dog! :-D:-D


----------



## Drew Peirce

This dog is owned by a WDF member, I became an instant fan after I saw this vid>

http://www.vonsidener.com/Arras_protection.wmv


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Here is Sarco doing the ring 3 routine.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/sarco/video/x5m1bp_sarco-a-dijon-jury-c_sport

Nice ob right ?? LOL For all of you that think pretty OB makes the dog the shit. : )


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> This dog rocks.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist...cours-ring-st-lye-temo&ajax_rnd=1238655476992


That first recall was nuts! Good video


----------



## Michelle Reusser

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Here is Sarco doing the ring 3 routine.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/sarco/video/x5m1bp_sarco-a-dijon-jury-c_sport
> 
> Nice ob right ?? LOL For all of you that think pretty OB makes the dog the shit. : )


I couldn't even get close to watching that whole vieo. That must be the flatest dog I've seen do any type of ringsport. We have one like that in our club but if you knew his handler, you'd understand why.


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I couldn't even get close to watching that whole vieo. That must be the flatest dog I've seen do any type of ringsport. We have one like that in our club but if you knew his handler, you'd understand why.


I had a hard time from hitting the stop button my self but I watched it. meh
I will say some of the others Jeff pointed out were very nice
I got the ADD my attention span waders if I'm not entertained.


----------



## todd pavlus

Looks like that dog was trained with a pretty heavy hand. The life and enthusiasm was sucked right out of it


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Ok so this dog is the father of Ulko, the dog with the beautiful OG. His OB is exactly what I would expect, he and the handler both tell each other to **** off.

But then it is time for the bitework, and he does everything. Maybe, oh just maybe, it is not the training, but the dog. What do you do with a dog that tells you to **** off.


----------



## todd pavlus

correct the snot out of it:-$ . There are obviously dogs that can handle alot of hard corrections without shutting down. That dog looked very stressed in the obediance, to the point where it looked like it hadn't done half the excercises before. It looked like the dog was not comfortable around the handler


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

The dog looked fine to me. But then again, I wasn't raised up in the sport with happy little curs that prance about and flinch like bitches in the bitework. 

My heros take dogs like this to the selectiffs. LOL This dog just wants to do the bitework. You didn't like his OB, but he was in the championships. Maybe they have an idea of what it takes to get a dog like this to FR3 ???


----------



## todd pavlus

If you saw a great schutzhund dog that performed like that in the champioship obediance routine, you would say " how the f*** did he get to there," Among other shit that spews from your mouth about schutzhund;-) . No doubt that dog liked the bitework, but surely that was not the first time the dog performed like that in the obediance. Maybe the dog new it was the championships and just wanted to make the handler look bad:lol:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Again, I grew up in sch, and we did not have dogs prancing all over **** and back like they do now.

I see dogs with a lot of drive, and good trainability, but not really what I consider strong dogs. High drive can fake people out into believing that the dog is strong.

How a dog deals with training does tell you about the character of the dog. This dog produced a dog that I really enjoyed watching do the object guard. There was no ob in that video, and I cannot find one. Could be that his OB is the same.

So YOU tell me what you saw with this dog. Being that you have no idea how he was trained, what would you do with a dog that tells you to go **** yourself in the OB ???

Would you even train the dog ?? Or would you give up and go get a prancy one ??? LOL


----------



## Michelle Reusser

I didn't think the dog looked frightened, just not happy with his handler or being on the field. More than likely crappy training tactics and now the dog hates OB, jumps or whatever else.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Ok, then, so all dogs should love OB and protection work ??

That is sort of the middle of the road dog don't ya think ??


----------



## todd pavlus

NO. What's wrong with a dog that likes obediance and protection and does well in both. Are you saying that you prefer a dog that is over the top in protection but battles you the whole way in obediance. Is not possible to have both?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

There is nothing WRONG with a dog like that, but that is not what you want to breed to. Something more and more common. 

How many of those dogs are good producers ?? I don't look at a dog without wondering what he would produce first. Just the way I think.

The dog looks sorta goofy until you get to the bitework, and then he is spectacular. His OB in the bitework is very nice, as well as everything else.

I see a lot of dogs that look good in everything but the bitework. Not really a trend I want to promote. Some of these dogs are being bred, and promoted as "all that" People that do not know better are gonna fall for it. LOL


----------



## todd pavlus

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There is nothing WRONG with a dog like that, but that is not what you want to breed to. Something more and more common.
> 
> How many of those dogs are good producers ?? I don't look at a dog without wondering what he would produce first. Just the way I think.
> 
> The dog looks sorta goofy until you get to the bitework, and then he is spectacular. His OB in the bitework is very nice, as well as everything else.
> 
> I see a lot of dogs that look good in everything but the bitework. Not really a trend I want to promote. Some of these dogs are being bred, and promoted as "all that" People that do not know better are gonna fall for it. LOL


Most dogs that are over the top in bitework are probably a little difficult to handle in obediance. that's what a lot of people like. Most folks would prefer the "golden middle if there is such a thing" The bitework is more stressful for the dog and therefore would show the dogs nerves or lack there of. I think alot of "working" gsd's that are bred today are "point" dogs, but fall a little short when it come to real true working dogs, such as the caliber of dogs that come out of Mike S. kennel. Those are nice dogs, not necessarily point dogs


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ok, then, so all dogs should love OB and protection work ??
> 
> That is sort of the middle of the road dog don't ya think ??


JMO I want balance on many dogs its often difficult see due to heavy handed training or stupid. On the really good and great dogs you had to wait for bite work to actually see the character of the dog and to really get a handle on what the dog is. Another option you would need to see how the dog is being trained or know how the handler trains there dogs to asses.
I can be oooooohed & ahhhhhed watching great performances by good dogs trained great. I can be oooooohed & ahhhhed and get goose bumps buy watching great dogs perform.
On a side note it's the dogs that produce in my opinion are the great dogs. If they happened to be trained well and put on a great show and produce then they become legion.
Then you got what is considered a great dog to one person may not be to someone else and it just goes round and round.
ASKO!!! :lol:


----------



## Bob Scott

Seeing a performance like that is usually one of two things (IMHO).
A dog and handler that have no connection. 
A lousy job of training. 
Doesn't matter what the dog's potential is if either is missing.
I don't ever recall seeing a shit performance like that and thinking what a good dog it is. Might be, might not!
If your going to enter a competition for points then you need to have a good connection with the dog AND good training.


----------



## Michelle Reusser

I wouldn't care that the dog isn't "stellar" in OB or tracking because I really don't give a shit about that stuff much myself. My dog is far from Joe Snappy 100pts in OB. Enough OB for control, not anal/robot/prancy prance but the dog blowing the jumps and just refusing to do shit bothers me. What if he doesn't wanna go in his kennel one day, or get out of the car? Where does it end? The dog must do wtf I tell it to do, whether he likes it or not. I personally don't expect enthusiasm 24/7 but "do it" already. I'm more interested in police/security/military dogs than sport, so it is and can be a safety issue if a dog fails to follow through. 

I wouldn't want to breed to him for fear the whole litter would be just like him, lazy, selfish or just an asshole, whatever his problem is. Too many dogs that actually "enjoy" the work to use instead.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

I don't know how this dog was trained, but I do know how many FR trainers at the time trained, and some still do. And it's very simple, the dogs only reward is the lack of a correction. There is never any food or toys used to reward a dog. A pat on the head, a "good boy", and like I said, the lack of a correction are all the reward the dog gets. I've purchased multiple adult imports who had NO idea what a ball was, or a game of fetch, tug, etc. Sure they did a formal retrieve, but they had no clue how to actually play with the handler. And it wasn't a lack of drive, it was a lack of experience. Once they learned what play was, they were crazy about it. 

I've seen many dogs trained with those methods who performed like that in the obedience. They do it because they have to, not because they have any great burning desire to. But it's the very rare dog who can be trained with those methods and actually go out there looking like they are enjoying themselves in obedience. Some will look a little better then this dog (he doesn't seem to have much connection with the handler) other's will look worse.

Also, this dog was in the selectifs. He didn't get there by routinely blowing exercises and refusing jumps. If you are owned by someone who trains using the methods outlined above, and they are preparing for a big competition, you aren't going to see an increase in the "fun factor" in training, but you will see an increase in the compulsion. He looks to me like they went to far with the compulsion. Not uncommon, I've heard many stories of dogs in the Selectifs and Coupe who completely shut down (wouldn't bite at all, or wouldn't jump, etc) prior to trial due to the pressure being put on them, then had to be rebuilt before the trial. 

When I see a dog at this level, with his obvious drive and character (you can see that in the protection) I look at him and think "yes, I'd consider him for breeding, because if he'll work under that training program what could he do in a program that actually does utilize more positive type training methods".


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Very well said Kadi, I was hoping to find someone that could actually read a dog in this bunch, and they failed miserably.

I showed them the well trained offspring, and his amazing OG and then showed them HIS father, and they are looking for all the things that truely mean **** all, like pretty OB, connections to handlers and bla bla bla.

This dog was in the ****ing Championship, and probably wacked within an inch of his life. Someday I hope to find someone that can see through the BS of training and recognize a super star when they see one. LOL

I would breed this dog sterile.

I have seen most of the GSD's people have on this board, and they are not 1/16th of what this dog is. Never will be, never could be, not a chance to measure up to this dog.

Besides the compulsion of training for the selectiffs, which is where the decoys compete to see who does the championship, there is the trial schedule, and the fact that the further they go, the harder the decoys get.

I do not recall many decoys patting dogs on the head after an exercise. This alone should have been something that you guys should have recognized as unusual. They are working a damn good dog.

I still have hope that someday more people will recognize what I was showing you.

I was looking for some video of Obelix, but failed. Another great. It takes a lot of dog to stand up to the type of training that can occur over there........especially before the Championship. LOL

Oh well, the world needs pet dog owners as well. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## ann schnerre

that Sarco dog was HAPPY in the bitework. i personally loved the way he was like a really tightly-wound spring before an excercise--he was SO ready to go get someone and once he got a bite on a decoy, it never moved. what a dif between his attitude in the OB and that in the protection. wow.


----------



## Randy Allen

Okay guys,
Can I get back to the video of Ulko? 
My question is; has any body here ever seen a dog take more pressure during an object guard without losing it's head? 
In fact any kind of pressure.
An honest question.

Wish I could be up to a dog ike that.
Randy


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Of course. There are probably more than I can find that do the OG quite well. My problem is that the ones that I have seen are Mals. I am not the almighty expert, but I really like that dogs OG AND it is a GSD. 

I also feel that you do not fight what the dog is in this exercise. I may be wrong, but the dogs I have seen do out of this world work, the training seems to fit the dog. I have seen people train the way that they want, and the dog does not do the exercise with the kind of understanding that this dog has.

To me, this dog sees this as this really cool game of try and take this shit from me. However, when the decoy tried to push him off with his other leg, the dog turned and nailed him. I like this.


----------



## Geoff Empey

Randy Allen said:


> Can I get back to the video of Ulko?


New Videos of Ulko at the Selectifs this past weekend .. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/ulko+/video/x5xruj_ulko-chez-les-chtis_sport

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8ysf9_ulko-selectifs-2009-groupe-1-jury-b_animals


----------



## Geoff Empey

Geoff Empey said:


> New Videos of Ulko at the Selectifs this past weekend ..
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/ulko+/video/x5xruj_ulko-chez-les-chtis_sport
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8ysf9_ulko-selectifs-2009-groupe-1-jury-b_animals


Sorry the first video was last years ... 

This is the latest here . . http://www.chienplus.com/selectif-Ring-2009.htm


----------



## Jim Nash

Watching both Ulko and his father perform made me laugh . I loved both dogs . I don't know very much about the sport but Ulko was great to watch . He loved his job . 

Watching his father perform made me laugh also . Watching the OB just made me think " You little mother*&%#er ! " .

Those videos really cheered me up . Thanks .


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k33vixxHc7sgkNiYeF

I was sent this. I am getting a pup from a breeding of this dog.


----------



## Edward Egan

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k33vixxHc7sgkNiYeF
> 
> I was sent this. I am getting a pup from a breeding of this dog.


Wow, from what I know that is a clear headed dog! Awsome! =D>


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

This is the dog Sarco that I posted earlier with the bad OB everyone had hissies about. : )


----------



## Tina Rempel

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k33vixxHc7sgkNiYeF
> 
> I was sent this. I am getting a pup from a breeding of this dog.


Are you really getting a pup or were you having some fun with us. I would love to watch you bring along a good GSD pup in mondio ring. I hope you are getting one.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Well, we will see how it works out, gonna be more than one pup.


----------



## todd pavlus

Who's the dam? Do you have the breeders link?


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Well, we will see how it works out, gonna be more than one pup.


Better get 4 or 5, just to cover the odds.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

The damn is a Yoschy grandaughter.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Ulko again, the object guard is ugly perfect.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5xruj_ulko-chez-les-chtis_sport?from=rss


----------

