# Jump Placement? Martine



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Martine,

I like this jump video of your dog especially the placement device. What is it and could you go into a little detail on how
you trained/shaped the behavior of the dog turning around and facing the jump? Thanks
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7538643426586895532#docid=-293559663970804606


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Martine,
> 
> I like this jump video of your dog especially the placement device. What is it and could you go into a little detail on how
> you trained/shaped the behavior of the dog turning around and facing the jump? Thanks
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7538643426586895532#docid=-293559663970804606


We use placements that we make ourselves. Simple construction of 3 wooden shelves, one on the bottom and 2 sides (so you get a U-shape).
First you teach the dog to lay down on the placement (command "place") and when he knows that you start the jumping foundation.
You start with a very low hurdle and a placement on each side and we put a "stand" (don't know the word in English) with a reward (food) behind each placement. The dog jumps, someone is on the other side to guide him over the placement, lets him take the food, turns him around and makes him lay down on the placement. Then he gets another reward.
I know this is a pretty clumsy explanation, but I don't know how to explain it better 

However, you can see this foundation very clearly in this video (at about 50sec) Hope that helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PQ_hJttoJk

We keep jumping exercises purely positive since we want the dog to like them and keep his speed


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Martine Loots said:


> We use placements that we make ourselves. Simple construction of 3 wooden shelves, one on the bottom and 2 sides (so you get a U-shape).
> First you teach the dog to lay down on the placement (command "place") and when he knows that you start the jumping foundation.
> You start with a very low hurdle and a placement on each side and we put a "stand" (don't know the word in English) with a reward (food) behind each placement. The dog jumps, someone is on the other side to guide him over the placement, lets him take the food, turns him around and makes him lay down on the placement. Then he gets another reward.
> I know this is a pretty clumsy explanation, but I don't know how to explain it better
> ...


simple but very effective. puts him on a correct place for him to make the jump from which is something i could use right about now since robbie sits or 1 ft away from the jump or 5 ft depending on how he feels...how do you ween him of the placements tho ? (wat doe je als je de hulpjes gaat verwijderen ?...kan me voorstellen dat dit even een klein probleem oplevert ?)


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi Martine,

Thanks, that video really helps. 
I'm jealous, a nice permanent training field with lots of equipment and environmental distractions and plenty of people to help with training. Most of my training is by myself at parks with stuff I can carry in my van. :-(


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hi Martine,
> 
> Thanks, that video really helps.
> I'm jealous, a nice permanent training field with lots of equipment and environmental distractions and plenty of people to help with training. Most of my training is by myself at parks with stuff I can carry in my van. :-(


need a bigger van...
I got a little jeep cherokee, packed to the max, only 1 crate though..


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Alice Bezemer said:


> simple but very effective. puts him on a correct place for him to make the jump from which is something i could use right about now since robbie sits or 1 ft away from the jump or 5 ft depending on how he feels...how do you ween him of the placements tho ? (wat doe je als je de hulpjes gaat verwijderen ?...kan me voorstellen dat dit even een klein probleem oplevert ?)


-

We have different placements according to the stage of the training. The "side shelves" are a lot lower for the second stage, then we move to only a flat square placement (first the same size then the one he's used to and then a much smaller one). For training we keep using the small ones. Sometimes we leave them away for an exercise, the next training we put them again. We do this randomly for the different exercises.

In case a dog starts hesitating we move to an easier stage for a few trainings.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Martine Loots said:


> -
> 
> We have different placements according to the stage of the training. The "side shelves" are a lot lower for the second stage, then we move to only a flat square placement (first the same size then the one he's used to and then a much smaller one). For training we keep using the small ones. Sometimes we leave them away for an exercise, the next training we put them again. We do this randomly for the different exercises.
> 
> In case a dog starts hesitating we move to an easier stage for a few trainings.


 me thinks me is going to nick you're tactics and out them to good use here 

thanks for explaining!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I agree, thanks for sharing....

Some of the best things I have learned on here come from these types of threads...and from watching the vids...

I for one appreciate it..


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

nice to see :razz:

Alice, you can use the bag (from object guarding) to. We sometime use it, to place the dog on the right distande from the hurdle.


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## eugene ramirez (Jun 22, 2010)

Martine "We have different placements according to the stage of the training." I noticed that in the first video, the placements of the stand is very far away from the hurdle. How many stages to do you in training for this jump? We train our dogs a meter or so away only. And in the actual competition does it matter where the dog is in the starting position? 

By the way, I've watched many of your training videos in the past, they are fantastic. Thanks for sharing.

Eugene


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> need a bigger van...
> I got a little jeep cherokee, packed to the max, only 1 crate though..



I"d just fill a bigger van with more equipment or more dogs
and get lousy gas mileage. Four crates in the Mercury Villager is my limit. NOW if I hit the Power ball, I'd be down the local 
Ford store checking out the 4 cyl Ford Transit Connect. More room and better gas mileage


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

This is what I am using with Ash and Jesea right now. It seems to be working well. Since I mainly train alone, I am sure some part of it is not truly correct, but we are getting it done. LOL


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've seen the "place" taught a number of ways but never with sides like that. Seems it would really help make it clear for the dog.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Go watch my video Bob, you will see them working there.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

eugene ramirez said:


> Martine "We have different placements according to the stage of the training."* I noticed that in the first video, the placements of the stand is very far away from the hurdle*. How many stages to do you in training for this jump? We train our dogs a meter or so away only. And in the actual competition does it matter where the dog is in the starting position?
> 
> By the way, I've watched many of your training videos in the past, they are fantastic. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Eugene


The distance has to be adapted to each dog individually, but normally it is about 7 to 8 meters. One meter is MUCH too close. A dog can never perform a nice jump from that distance.

We use the same techniques like for horses. The dog has to go into a lope and the distance should be calculated so he lands exactly on the right spot to take off for the jump without the fluid movement being broken.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Go watch my video Bob, you will see them working there.


Enjoyed em!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If you make those boxes, do NOT make them out of 2x12. Damn they are heavy. LOL


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> nice to see :razz:
> 
> Alice, you can use the bag (from object guarding) to. We sometime use it, to place the dog on the right distande from the hurdle.


tried that yesterday and it works like a charm ! going to expand on it with the widthjump and highjump/climb so he gets to know his place and goes where i want him to 

gotta love this forum for all the excellent ideas that are available :mrgreen:


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## eugene ramirez (Jun 22, 2010)

@Martine, "The distance has to be adapted to each dog individually, but normally it is about 7 to 8 meters. One meter is MUCH too close. A dog can never perform a nice jump from that distance."

thank you. We will try your suggestion.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

eugene ramirez said:


> @Martine, "The distance has to be adapted to each dog individually, but normally it is about 7 to 8 meters. One meter is MUCH too close. A dog can never perform a nice jump from that distance."
> 
> thank you. We will try your suggestion.


not true 

we train our dogs on 1 meter from the jump be it the climb, width or 3 ft high jump...and trust me the perform a very nice jump indeed 

but it also depends on the area of sports that you train in.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Alice Bezemer said:


> not true
> 
> we train our dogs on 1 meter from the jump be it the climb, width or 3 ft high jump...and trust me the perform a very nice jump indeed
> 
> but it also depends on the area of sports that you train in.


I agree with the climb. We also do that for the palissade. But I wouldn't call that a jump. More of a climbing exercise.

Agree too that a dog can pass a 3ft hurdle even when standing at 1m, but then you don't get a nice fluid jump (wij noemen dat een "vierkante noodsprong")
It even works for our NVBK hurdle which is 1.20m (approx 4ft) but isn't really nice to watch.
I have no idea how large the wide jump in KNPV is, but in Ring it's 4m and to pass that without touching is very difficult from 1m distance. There the dog has to get some speed before jumping.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Martine Loots said:


> I agree with the climb. We also do that for the palissade. But I wouldn't call that a jump. More of a climbing exercise.
> 
> Agree too that a dog can pass a 3ft hurdle even when standing at 1m, but then you don't get a nice fluid jump (wij noemen dat een "vierkante noodsprong")
> It even works for our NVBK hurdle which is 1.20m (approx 4ft) but isn't really nice to watch.
> I have no idea how large the wide jump in KNPV is, but in Ring it's 4m and to pass that without touching is very difficult from 1m distance. There the dog has to get some speed before jumping.


width is 2.25 mtrs...as for the pallisade its not as high as with your pallisade 1.75 mtrs high but still we sit the dog at 1 mtr approx from the jump  and get a very nice result in all jumps/climbs but I see what you mean  hurdle is 1 mtr in hight.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Alice Bezemer said:


> width is 2.25 mtrs...as *for the pallisade its not as high as with your pallisade 1.75 mtrs high but still we sit the dog at 1 mtr approx from the jump  and get a very nice result* in all jumps/climbs but I see what you mean  hurdle is 1 mtr in hight.


Completely agree for the palissade. We also place the dog at about 1m because there it's important that he doesn't jump out of speed but out of strength


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Alice Bezemer said:


> not true
> 
> we train our dogs on 1 meter from the jump be it the climb, width or 3 ft high jump...and trust me the perform a very nice jump indeed
> 
> but it also depends on the area of sports that you train in.


I've met lots of dogs that can jump lower heights when put close, and even a few that can do the FR hurdle at maximum when put very close (1 meter). But few, and in almost every case when the dog was given more room, it was able to jump better.

But the FR hurdle at maximum, and I believe the BR one also, is 1.2m. 3ft is approximately 0.9 meters, which is the minimum height for the FR hurdle, and almost 12 inches lower then maximum.


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## eugene ramirez (Jun 22, 2010)

Martine, We've been doing our training and jumps for MR maximum which is 1.2 meters I believe, from one meter or around 3 feet away. Many of the other competitors are doing the same thing during competition.

I am not sure what the rule is in term of distance allowed from the hurdle during competition. Does anyone know what is the maximum allowable distance from the hurdle for MR?

When you said you train is stages, I thought you meant in the beginning stages, you train your dog far from the hurdle, but as they get better at it, you bring them closer. 

But anyways, I will try training from a greater distance, then gradually bring him closer to the hurdle as he becomes proficient.


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