# chiropractor



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Taking my two bitches to the chiropractor for the first time on Mon. Hope all looks good. One is getting up there in age and the other is a ring dog that has hit everything as fast and as hard as she could all her life and she's only six. Just want to be sure all is well. He is supposed to evaluate overall efficiency of movement and gait, and/or make adjustments if necessary. Anyone else use this service for their working dogs? If so, what were the results (effective or no?)? Wish us luck.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

wouldn't the quality be similar to those who work on humans ? lots of em around ... not much in place to rate them, regulate them or supervise them compared to md's ... but can usually find someone who swears by theirs and others who have had not so effective results
...Japan is highly regulated for chiropractors but all the other parts fit this description

actually i didn't know there was such a thing as canine chiropractors .. 
Q is there some type of certification process for a CC ? 
Q how much do they charge and 
Q what country are you living in ? 
sorry for more Q's than answers.....


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## Justin Gannon (Nov 17, 2008)

I take 4 of my mals weekly. Helps a lot. Good luck. Cyn says hello.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

All of my dogs see a chiro about every 2 months, been doing that for about 10 yrs , so obviously i like it and believe in it, seen it help in many of my dogs and others just get it for maintenence


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## Leslie Patterson (Mar 6, 2008)

[FONT=&quot]I feel it is very important for your overall health, it [/FONT][FONT=&quot]is important for maintaining the health of your nerves, organs, and connective tissue (muscles, tendons, and ligaments) so the body can operate normally. 
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[FONT=&quot]My dog and I go to the chiropractor together lol I especially need it because of my job and my dog because of all the high impact sports he does. At first you go more frequently, now we only need it once a month for maintenance.[/FONT]

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## christina chapman (Oct 9, 2011)

Good luck!

My guy isn't a working dog, but I've had great results with acupuncture and chiropractic adjustments on my 9 yo male. (He's going for peripheral neuropathy and spondylosis.) I was hesitant that it was just going to be a money waster, but I'm a believer now that I've seen results. 
I made sure I found a vet I liked and who had good referrals.

But I do plan on taking my future dogs for "maintenance," since a lot of the sport work is hard on them. The vet I'm seeing spends time during the sessions explaining her methods and answers all my questions. And we talked about the benefits of chiro with working dogs, and it makes a lot of sense to try it.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I dont use a chiro for me my horse or my dog. I have been to several different ones and I am always the same when I leave. So I dont really believe in them.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I have had an experience or three that has soured me on human chiropractors working with dogs. For example, I was at the U-FLI flyball national tournament of champions at Purina Farms in November as the show vet for first aid. There was a human chiropractor who wasn't even licensed to practice on humans in Missouri doing "adjustments" on some of the dogs at the flyball tournament. I saw one dog yelping in pain and actually trying to bite the guy, but he kept going :evil: and was definitely taking money. I reported him to the state licensing board as it violated the practice act. This was his little set up area, including signs colored in magic marker. Very professional. 










It's actually illegal in quite a few states for human chiropractors to work on animals without the supervision or referral of a vet, though there are many that fly under the radar. I personally prefer medical massage. It is gentler with no high velocity motions that could cause harm, but great benefits, particularly for working dogs to keep them active. Acupuncture can be good too and goes together well with massage.


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

I have had excellent results from chiropractic care for my dogs. But it is only as good as the practitioner. 

I had a rescue GSD that had been hit from behind by a car. His back and tail were literally a figure S. The first adjustment was painful for him but he was able to run and hold up and wave his tail afterwards. He needed 2 more adjustments 2 weeks apart, then another 6 months later, and then 1 every year for maintenance. I had a bc/blue heeler mix flyball dog that needed occasional adjustments for his back. Really helped his performance. My current malinois needed his sternum, shoulder, elbow adjusted after some crazy puppy stuff. Now he seems to need his neck and jaw adjusted on a regular basis. My female malinois needed her back adjusted after her pregnancy.

I have learned that I need a chiropractor that can actually do gait analysis and identify what muscles/tendons are affected and causing the misalignment. He then needs to help me identify what activities are causing the problem and come up with a plan to address them - stretching, strengthening, changing the way they are done, avoiding them, etc. 

I learned the hard way to use a chiropractor that only adjusts things that are out of align. I used one once that adjusts everything every time - shoulders, elbows, hips - and does what they call a "hard adjustment". This put my dog through unnecessary pain - especially the hips - and made me think that everything was out of align and I needed to keep going back. I only use chiropractors that are veterinarians or human ones that have animal chiropractic training and require a referral from my vet. 

Just my experience. Thanks.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

ok, no answers so i did a quick search .... to me it looks like if you are gonna spend money to see one you should at least be familiar with this link first :

http://animalchiropractic.org/certification_information.htm#Steps to Certification

obviously this outfit is vet based, so there might be another type of certification group that is human based that also includes animals

over here the good ones don't need to advertise at all


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

http://www.abnerspress.com/1/post/2011/09/canine-chiropratic-from-a-new-believer.html

Yup, love mine. No doubt she saved my boy from retirement. Now both of us go to a chiropractor once a month. We're still in the healing/recovery process, but haven't been able to go for three months now and I can see his gait is very effected again.


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

Rick, 

Here in Houston, TX it is expensive - for dogs $50 - $70 per session with the initial consult $75 to $150. It is more for horses. 

There is a mixture of vet chiro and human chiro w/ animal cert. They all have their own personal techniques, focus, and bedside manner with animals and/or humans. A few have opened up rehab clinics. They get alot of acl rehab from the many ortho vets in town. It is still expensive. Most dog people hear about them through word of mouth, esp the agility folks.

I personally go to the chiro college in Pasadena, TX - they use a combination of chiro and PT, have the latest equipment, and the students are fresh, inquisitive and aren't burned out. They have lower prices and take insurance. I wish there was an animal chiro school here, but the closest one is in Dallas.

Thanks.


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## Adrianne Steimonts (Jun 21, 2010)

I keep wanting to give this a shot but I am nervous about the quality of doctors. I haven't a clue how to tell who is good, who isn't, and who's in between. 

Any pointers? Any recommendations around Las Vegas, Nv?


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Who do you use, Christina?


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## Tracy Davis-Sullivan (May 10, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I have had an experience or three that has soured me on human chiropractors working with dogs. For example, I was at the U-FLI flyball national tournament of champions at Purina Farms in November as the show vet for first aid. There was a human chiropractor who wasn't even licensed to practice on humans in Missouri doing "adjustments" on some of the dogs at the flyball tournament. I saw one dog yelping in pain and actually trying to bite the guy, but he kept going :evil: and was definitely taking money. I reported him to the state licensing board as it violated the practice act. This was his little set up area, including signs colored in magic marker. Very professional.


Maren - Have you contacted the Tournament of Champions committee? I know when someone posted to the U-fli list about having a Chiro on site, most of us said "we don't let just anyone adjust our dogs" and most flyball people who use Chiros go about a week before an event.

You can go here: http://www.u-fli.com/index.php?req=sb_contact&opt=champ
or I can get you some emails for folks. 

I love our Chiro. I can bring our crazy lurcher in and see that his gait is off and she'll get him back on track: http://holisticvetcare.com/lisa-koenig/


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I am a recent convert.:smile:

Following an accident last month, I took my adult male GSD to a chiropractor who was connected with a veterinary hospital that I am familiar with because of their neurosurgery department, which I have had occasion to utilize in the past. The Chiropractor was very good and my dog did experience relief as evidenced by how his movement was much more normal and freed up following treatment.

I was going to use a highly recommended Chiropractor who does a lot of sport dogs in Southern California but that person was booked. 

Based on my experience and the experience of my friends, I wouldn't hesitate to take my dog to a Chiropractor in the future if I felt he needed it.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Tracy Davis-Sullivan said:


> Maren - Have you contacted the Tournament of Champions committee? I know when someone posted to the U-fli list about having a Chiro on site, most of us said "we don't let just anyone adjust our dogs" and most flyball people who use Chiros go about a week before an event.
> 
> You can go here: http://www.u-fli.com/index.php?req=sb_contact&opt=champ
> or I can get you some emails for folks.


Yeah, when I told the folks in charge, they went up to the guy, who then wanted to talk to me. I wanted nothing to do with him so he couldn't somehow claim I was supervising him. I told them later to be *VERY* careful who they allow to have a table like that as if the the owner had been bitten because the dog was pain, the organizers and Purina may be liable in this day and age. I reported him to the state board, but haven't heard back. I am pretty open minded and if someone wants to try chiropractic, especially if they are doing with a vet who is certified in chiropractic, that's fine, but not if the dog is in pain and he keeps going. That's not acceptable...


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## Sue Calkins (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm very pleased with the results from my dogs' chiropractor. Sports are very hard on an animal, and I saw a tremendous difference in my male..kept him working much longer than he otherwise would have. I'd rather spend $50 every 6 weeks than money on vet visits, meds, etc. I think most important is to have someone who really knows what they're doing. I'd say try to find referrals from other dog owners. And you maybe won't see tremendous results the first time, but over the course of treatment the dog should improve.
Sue


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

agility sports are fun for people to participate in and fun for people to watch
...that's the good part
the bad part is the obstacles are designed in much the same way
...no wonder agility dogs need chiro adjustments and meds
but i guess it would be boring if canine biomechanics was a prerequisite to deigning obstacles
...cause then only the dogs would be having fun


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

rick smith said:


> agility sports are fun for people to participate in and fun for people to watch
> ...that's the good part
> the bad part is the obstacles are designed in much the same way
> ...no wonder agility dogs need chiro adjustments and meds
> ...


Rik maybe I'm not taking your post the way you intended, but I think most dogs who participate in agility are also having fun. No sport is without risk, from doggie dancing to fly ball to dock diving to grip sports, there is inherent risk of injury with all of them, and even without specific injury, there is increased wear and tear on the body, but that's the way it goes, that's just part of life.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Susan .... definitely the dogs are having fun no matter what we do with em !

- i was just taking a jab that we often design games and sports that are more pleasing for people than are biomechanically good for the dog ....
- you will probably never see a dog "weaving thru a forest of tree trunks" like in an agility course having fun that way 

dog dancing can be a good exercise to build up a dog ... extended competition dancing may not be so good but looks much cooler and makes the handler and the fans happy ... that's kinda what i was referring to 

we dog owners are selfish that way sometimes :-(
...and we're not gonna stop doing that .... and dogs are gonna be happy doing what we ask em to do even if it isn't always healthy for them .... the increase in injuries just seems to confirm that
....i was just taking the dog's perspective cause they can't speak for themselves 
...no biggy


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Not sure "weaving through tree trunks" or not has anything to do with this subject or are you suggesting everything we do with dogs must mimick something in nature?

I think suggesting that dog sports aren't biomechanically engineered to suit a dog because people think it would be boring is wrong. I think the reason courses are designed the way they are designed is because people think they are fun to run, entertaining, and NOT overly dangerous to the animal. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Cancelled appt. w/ chiropractor due to illness. Going to reschedule for nxt. wk. Thanks all for your input. From what I've seen he has a good amount of patients. He recieved a diplomate of some kind from the American Veterinary Chiropractic Association to practice on animals. He was initially and still does practice chiropractic medicine for human beings, so I'm expecting him to be a good clinician. We'll see what happens.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Annamarie Somich said:


> I have had excellent results from chiropractic care for my dogs. But it is only as good as the practitioner.


This. I've met a few that shouldn't have been doing it over the years, but it wasn't to hard to figure out who was good and who wasn't. 

When I walk into the office with a dog hunched up, unable or unwilling to turn there head all the way to the right, and I walk out with a dog who is walking freely, moving their head in all directions freely, I'm a believer 

Cali will be 13 in April and is still going strong. Part of it I am sure is her genetics, her mother lived to be almost 17, but part of it IMO is that she has had regular chiropractic care for most of her life. She is showing some age, but is in better shape physically than some of my friends 8 and 9 year old dogs.


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Zakia Days said:


> He recieved a diplomate of some kind from the American Veterinary Chiropractic Association to practice on animals. He was initially and still does practice chiropractic medicine for human beings, so I'm expecting him to be a good clinician. We'll see what happens.


I can't remember if anybody mentioned this yet. I have only used three different chiros on my dog. From my experience, the human chiro who got the animal training is much better than the vet who received the animal training. The human chiro has a much more sensitive feel and can pinpoint bad spots better than the vet could. The vet was fine and knew the motions, but obviously didn't have the depth of training the human chiro has that works on horses, cats and dogs. And, oh, yeah, people.

Laura


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## Sue Calkins (Nov 5, 2009)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> I can't remember if anybody mentioned this yet. I have only used three different chiros on my dog. From my experience, the human chiro who got the animal training is much better than the vet who received the animal training. The human chiro has a much more sensitive feel and can pinpoint bad spots better than the vet could. The vet was fine and knew the motions, but obviously didn't have the depth of training the human chiro has that works on horses, cats and dogs. And, oh, yeah, people.
> 
> Laura


Interesting you bring this up...mine was originally a human chiro as well. Certainly has a depth of knowledge I appreciate, as well as an understanding of an athlete.
Regarding dog sports being hard on our dogs, and if they would choose to participate - sometimes it's scarier watching them play!
Sue


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> I can't remember if anybody mentioned this yet. I have only used three different chiros on my dog. From my experience, the human chiro who got the animal training is much better than the vet who received the animal training. The human chiro has a much more sensitive feel and can pinpoint bad spots better than the vet could. The vet was fine and knew the motions, but obviously didn't have the depth of training the human chiro has that works on horses, cats and dogs. And, oh, yeah, people.
> 
> Laura


This makes sense to me too. The Chiro that I took Arkane to see was originally a chiro for humans also.


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> I can't remember if anybody mentioned this yet. I have only used three different chiros on my dog. From my experience, the human chiro who got the animal training is much better than the vet who received the animal training. The human chiro has a much more sensitive feel and can pinpoint bad spots better than the vet could. The vet was fine and knew the motions, but obviously didn't have the depth of training the human chiro has that works on horses, cats and dogs. And, oh, yeah, people.
> 
> Laura


My experience also - human chiros with animal training have been better than veterinarians with chiro training. They do have more sensitive hands. Also, they seem to have the ability to look at my dogs as moving muscles and bones and consider the whole body and how it is interconnected instead of focusing in on one area.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

interesting ... i woulda thought a vet who added chiro would be better
since the anatomy, muscle, bone structure and bio mechanics of a canine are totally different from a human

... most human chiros (only 3-4) i've been to have had an element of no pain no gain in their techniques, even tho it produced good results :-(
...sounds like a no-no with our dogs tho


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Opening a big can of worms here, but my understanding of chiropractic is that there is an underlying element of a belief system of how it supposedly works that's way too high on the woo for me. I'd still pick the vet who has chiropractic training (yeah, go figure, right?) among other things. The anatomy is different and particularly if you get into internal medicine issues, the pathology is often different as well. The vet will also be able to interpret lab work, know more about the medications an animal is on and be able to prescribe other medications, be much more familiar with the pathology, and so on. 

Just as a general warning, be careful with the human chiropractors because as I said, they are not allowed to practice on animals without direct supervision or referral from a veterinarian as it violates the practice act in many states. They usually see animal chiropractic as a good money maker, but if a vet who was trained in chiropractic started trying to practice on humans, the chiropractors would be screaming bloody murder. 

As a very recent example of why a vet needs to be involved, I had a patient (10 year old female spayed large sized mixed breed) that presented to me about 6 weeks ago for right rear leg lameness. On a house call, I did an orthopaedic exam and did a little light massage on the dog. We also came up with a treatment plan which included blood work, medications, supplements, a diet change, and rehab exercises to build the muscles in her hind legs, which were markedly atrophied. She did not improve and was starting to show overall signs of poor health pretty quickly, so I referred her for radiographs and an ultrasound. This was what her rads looked like about a month after I first saw her (name blacked out for privacy), with her head (not visible) to the left and tail to the right:










She had either osteosarcoma or fibrosarcoma (aggressive bone cancer) that had spread to her spine and ribs. You can see the lysis or moth eaten appearance of her vertebra where I circled it (you can see more on her ribs and sternum as well). If the owner would have gone to a chiropractor without seeing a vet first and received any high velocity "adjustments" to her spine for what seemed like a hind leg issue, that would have likely lead to a catastrophic pathologic fracture of her spine. I euthanized her last week soon after the very poor diagnosis. :-(


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Opening a big can of worms here, but my understanding of chiropractic is that there is an underlying element of a belief system of how it supposedly works that's way too high on the woo for me. I'd still pick the vet who has chiropractic training (yeah, go figure, right?) among other things. The anatomy is different and particularly if you get into internal medicine issues, the pathology is often different as well. The vet will also be able to interpret lab work, know more about the medications an animal is on and be able to prescribe other medications, be much more familiar with the pathology, and so on.
> 
> Just as a general warning, be careful with the human chiropractors because as I said, they are not allowed to practice on animals without direct supervision or referral from a veterinarian as it violates the practice act in many states. They usually see animal chiropractic as a good money maker, but if a vet who was trained in chiropractic started trying to practice on humans, the chiropractors would be screaming bloody murder.
> 
> ...


also a good reason to go to a vet with radiograph in the first place, who might have done it sooner than a month later...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The client had some financial concerns as she was unemployed (I wrote her a number of $4 prescriptions) and the dog was also very fearful at the vet, which is why she was using me in the first place. I wanted to get rads done earlier but it didn't happen. The onset was also very fast and she went from weight bearing lame in one leg to inability to rise in 3 weeks.


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

The vet I used that went through the animal chiro training manipulated my dog much more aggressively than the chiropractor who spent three years learning how to manipulate. Yes, she knew the motions and helped my dog. However, the two human chiros I have used could manipulate and get better results with a much gentler approach maybe because they had more specialized training behind them.

I would have to say none of them are doing it as a get rich quick scheme, for which I am thankful 

Laura


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Well this chiropractor has asked for my dog's most recent vet records (any lab work, special dx and/or medications, and most recent radiographs). He inquired about their diets and he also asked me for any photos of dogs working/in motion. I don't think he's in it strictly for the money cuz his rate was very reasonable, especially if you are bringing in more than one pet. I am hoping for the best.


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

Good luck Zakia,

We have a great chiro vet here in TX, Dr Ormston, we have been going to him for 10 years, helped Bodeus when he got hurt in bitework. The most amazing thing I ever saw was Gana, who had licked a hand sized red area on her flank, my normal UK vet said it was allergies and to use an anti-itch shampoo, so when we next flew here to train, we went to see Dr O, and the red area was gone within the week, Gana was out at her T11, and a quick adjustment and she stopped licking.

Louise


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

I would not let one touch my dogs that was not a licensed VET that trained in chiropractic / acupuncture care.

Used Allen Schoen for many, many years for my x-country horse & use a chiro vet every 2 months or more often if needed for my dogs. 

Having had a dog suffer a back injury, I know how much excellent chiro care can change the dog's healther outcome from negative to positive.

IMO, FWIW, any competition dog or sport dog, especially those doing protection work, even more so those doing distance impacts, should recieve 'maintanence' chiro checkups.


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