# question about Barry Dongen



## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

There is a current question on the board about reputable Mal breeders that got me thinking...

I have a 15 year old Dutch Shepherd named Lazy, whom I have owned since he was 11. I have long since lost his pedigree, but I seem to remember Barry being on both halves, and I think he may have even been Lazy's father. If Barry wasn't Lazy's father then he was definitely a grandfather.

I am wondering what kind of dog Barry was, and what he produced? If Lazy is a representative of that line of dogs then I think I might avoid it in the future. 

I know very little about Dutch Shepherd lines, and didn't really see anything when I googled him.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

catherine hardigan said:


> There is a current question on the board about reputable Mal breeders that got me thinking...
> 
> I have a 15 year old Dutch Shepherd named Lazy, whom I have owned since he was 11. I have long since lost his pedigree, but I seem to remember Barry being on both halves, and I think he may have even been Lazy's father. If Barry wasn't Lazy's father then he was definitely a grandfather.
> 
> ...


 Barry was a blue dog and was bred by Gerard v Hoek. Bloodlines go back to the old Buddymeijer/Van Hoek dogs which were known for the seriousness.
Dick and Selena Van Leeuwens old Dutchie Robbie was a Barry son, so they might be your best bet to get some info on what the dog was like in person.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> There is a current question on the board about reputable Mal breeders that got me thinking...
> 
> I have a 15 year old Dutch Shepherd named Lazy, whom I have owned since he was 11. I have long since lost his pedigree, but I seem to remember Barry being on both halves, and I think he may have even been Lazy's father. If Barry wasn't Lazy's father then he was definitely a grandfather.
> 
> ...


Barry was the father of my old Robbie, the founder of our bloodline. He is on www.bloedlijnen.nl under brn 836 .

I know Candor, the father of Barry. He was a dog with lots of drive to guard ( possesive) and had a fast attack with full grips. ( army-dog)

Mother side Burston was a very, very, difficult dominant dog. He was also an army service dog (airforce) and Gerard van Hoek was his handler. He was too difficult to make KNPV certificat. 

I doubt he was the father of your dog. More his grandfather, i suppose.


Dick


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Christopher Jones said:


> Barry was a blue dog and was bred by Gerard v Hoek. Bloodlines go back to the old Buddymeijer/Van Hoek dogs which were known for the seriousness.
> Dick and Selena Van Leeuwens old Dutchie Robbie was a Barry son, so they might be your best bet to get some info on what the dog was like in person.


Hahaha, tnx Chris. Answered the same time...:wink:

Dick


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Yeah... that sounds a lot like Lazy. It's too bad that he didn't find the right type of owner as a pup, then he might have lived up to his potential if he had any. If I had known about his lines I probably wouldn't have taken him.

As it was I think he was bought and sold quite a few times and was owned by people who couldn't or wouldn't work with him. The result was a lot of heavy-handed force and an isolated, unhappy dog. As for possession, let's just say I make sure he doesn't get anything I would ever want back.

Even in his old age he has been a VERY difficult dog to own, but I've never had a dog that loves me as much as he does, so that helps. 

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure I'll be a repeat owner of a dog from these lines... they're hard work! It must be difficult to find owners for them.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

if you ever find the pedigree back, let us know, curious what line he is.


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> if you ever find the pedigree back, let us know, curious what line he is.


Will do.

It's hard to say how much of Lazy is nature and how much is nurture. For example: The only time I took him to a club I had to choke him unconscious to get him off the decoy. 

I'm sure with a more experienced owner things would have been different, but nobody seemed to be able to help me with him. 

He is the reason that I don't ask for training advise from people who don't know my dogs... with a dog like Lazy it's a recipe for somebody getting hurt.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

lazy sounds like he had true stud potential, and 15yrs is pretty amazing in it's own right, speaks to the soundness of his genetics


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Drew Peirce said:


> lazy sounds like he had true stud potential, and 15yrs is pretty amazing in it's own right, speaks to the soundness of his genetics


Actually I'm pretty thankful that, to my knowledge, he was never used as a stud... the last thing this world needs is a bunch of Lazy jr.'s running around. I've spent too much effort protecting the general public from him as it is.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

right, silly me.........


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what are his traits that you feel so strongly about not breeding dogs like him?

sounds like a good dog to me...


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

catherine hardigan said:


> Actually I'm pretty thankful that, to my knowledge, he was never used as a stud... the last thing this world needs is a bunch of Lazy jr.'s running around. I've spent too much effort protecting the general public from him as it is.


Thank you Citizen.


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> what are his traits that you feel so strongly about not breeding dogs like him?
> 
> sounds like a good dog to me...


Firstly: I am not a breeder so take this with a big grain of salt.

Secondly: Yes, Lazy does have some traits that people like, but he also has other traits that make him the dominant, possessive, aggressive dog that he is. He is a definite liability. If Lazy did produce himself in his puppies, then I don't know who the breeder would sell them to. I'm sure there are handlers out there who are capable of training a dog like Lazy correctly, but I don't think there are enough of them to warrant breeding him. Besides, there are already people who breed dogs like Lazy and buyers know where to find them if they want one. Even then, some of these puppies end up in the wrong homes, as Lazy and his 4 (or more) owners prove.


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## Dick van Leeuwen (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm very curious what "route" Lazy made.
I know i did an inbreeding ( grandfather x granddaughter ) with my old Robby and am starting to think he might be a result of that.

Further, try to understand the other posters, who sometimes search a long time to find a dog like yours...

Certainly not a pet, but probably a very good PSD..


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Dick van Leeuwen said:


> I'm very curious what "route" Lazy made.
> I know i did an inbreeding ( grandfather x granddaughter ) with my old Robby and am starting to think he might be a result of that.
> 
> Further, try to understand the other posters, who sometimes search a long time to find a dog like yours...
> ...


I am not too sure of Lazy's past. All I can say is that the guy who gave Lazy to me (my friend's ex-boyfriend) bought him in Europe from a man who was not the dog's original owner. He was imported to the US. His papers have been lost and I am not aware of any health testing.

Lazy is definitely out of my league as a working dog even though he was 11 when I got him. It was a big challenge for me just to teach him house manners and for him to respect me as some sort of authority figure. It think putting a title on a dog like Lazy would be true accomplishment for a skilled and experienced handler.

I don't know if Lazy is of your breeding, but if he is... you can rest assured that he has been safe, content, healthy, and well cared for in his old age. His head is resting in my lap as I type this.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

catherine hardigan said:


> I am not too sure of Lazy's past. All I can say is that the guy who gave Lazy to me (my friend's ex-boyfriend) bought him in Europe from a man who was not the dog's original owner. He was imported to the US. His papers have been lost and I am not aware of any health testing.
> 
> Lazy is definitely out of my league as a working dog even though he was 11 when I got him. It was a big challenge for me just to teach him house manners and for him to respect me as some sort of authority figure. It think putting a title on a dog like Lazy would be true accomplishment for a skilled and experienced handler.
> 
> I don't know if Lazy is of your breeding, but if he is... you can rest assured that he has been safe, content, healthy, and well cared for in his old age. His head is resting in my lap as I type this.


sounds like he is a good dog, but maybe not an easy dog, to handle and train?


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