# putting a dog up



## keith shimada (Dec 7, 2009)

What do you do when your finished working your dog on the field, ie just did bite work? We always let the dog lay in a kiddy pool of water before putting them in their crates. We also take a break after a few bites and let them rest in the pool. When I crate my dog, i didn't let her/him drink for 20 min. I think that is to prevent bloat.
After reading the thread on heat stroke, i wonder, what's everyone doing? Should I be holding back water for a bit? My dogs crate is cooled by an ice cooler by Swampy (swampy.net) in the car.

thanks,
keith in Vegas


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

interesting and don't have an answer
but consider this
when i was a kid and active in sports you could hardly ever take "water breaks" and we also took "salt pills" 
...old school coaching 

- when i as in the military and training hard, it was similar

now if you look at military personnel, everyone is packing a "hydration" camel back 
- water drinking is promoted ... keep hydrated

maybe dogs need to start wearing camel backs too ? //lol//

seriously...ask any mwd handler and every one will tell you how important it is to make sure their K9 stays hydrated, no matter how inconvenient

i know, people don't "bloat", but if you think your bite sessions approach a real working dog's environment you should probably be more concerned with MAINTAINING hydration while working rather than how to catch up and "rehydrate" and cool down when it's over and you "put it up"


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

rick smith said:


> seriously...ask any mwd handler and every one will tell you how important it is to make sure their K9 stays hydrated, no matter how inconvenient
> 
> i know, people don't "bloat", but if you think your bite sessions approach a real working dog's environment you should probably be more concerned with MAINTAINING hydration while working rather than how to catch up and "rehydrate" and cool down when it's over and you "put it up"


Never really thought about it, but now that I am you're right. MWD handlers do give their dogs quite a bit of water while working. What's their rate of suspected water-related bloat (I can't think of any cases off the top of my head) compared to "average" 'working'/sport dog? Would this have something to do with the heat and the dogs absorbing the smaller, more frequent water breaks faster than a dog that isn't working in blazing heat?

Anyways, my dogs I offer a small amount of water and then walk until they're cool. Then I give them a bit more, and maybe an hour or so later so more water. My Lab gets the full bowl because he'll self-monitor pretty well and won't just stand there and guzzle the whole thing.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

When I work out, I take small water breaks maybe every 10 minutes or so. I dont drink the whole bottle of water, I drink just enough to quench my thirst a little. That way I can continue to jump around or do whatever Im doing and I dont get sick to my stomach. i treat my dogs like that, I bring a small bowl that way they dont get too much and right when they are done working I give them a little and put them up. I also keep my car running with the ac.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Many people don't warm up their dogs and even more *don't* cool down their dogs it's very important in the heat to do that. I always cool down the dogs by giving them a small amount of h20 (as any dog I've seen will gulp h20 when hot. To me that's not a good thing) and walking them enough so I see them urinate and then let them chill a bit on the grass in a shady spot before putting them away with more water. 

We've had a horrible summer up here for heat. We did a trial last weekend where the surface of the field was 107f. That's just murder. I warmed up my dogs about 30 mins before going with a light walk having them urinate and defecate then put them back into the crate with ice into their h20 buckets and throw some ice cubes into the crate. I don't really baby my dogs in the heat. They are in the van with it open so they always feel the heat. I've seen to many leave their dogs in super cold A/C and when they take them out to work, the dogs hit a wall and fade really fast. 

I also have a small 2 gallon pressurized garden sprayer that we use to spray down the dogs bellies, the males gonads and giving them controlled drinks on breaks and after training, it works for cooling down the decoys too. 

It really helps to know first aid for heat exhaustion that in turn educates yourself to the symptoms in the first place to avoid it escalating. Heavy heavy panting reddish gums and tongue, dopiness.

In real heavy heat I change the way I work them to an extent by shorter sessions and really watch for the the tell tale signs of heat exhaustion always. But just exposing them in regular life does help them to acclimatize to the heat by just not avoiding it. If Oketz can use Malinois in war zones in a desert climate with success, all the rest it is just a climatizing issue.

Another thing you have to know how dogs cool themselves in the first place. I've reread here that many just give the dogs water like a human athlete. That doesn't work to cool down a dog as dogs only cool themselves through their tongues and paw pads. This is why I use the garden sprayer as I can spray on exposed skin belly, gonads, ears and spray into my hand so the dog can take h20 without gulping it.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

based on the ones i have seen and what many mwd handlers and kennel masters have told me, probably a very low incidence of bloat in mwd's these days since most are tied .... don't know about contractor K9's working with DOD tho


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I mentioned it on the other thread, but I'll repeat it here. What's been working well is doing short intense sessions of only 3-5 minutes (usually works out to about 3-5 bites) but have 3-4 total sessions instead of 1-2 longer ones. Instead of running the dogs back to the crate, I walk them out for 5 minutes, let them get just enough water to wet their whistle (10 laps), take the water away for a few more minutes, wet their belly, neck, and legs, and maybe walk them out for another minutes before putting them up with some more water (perhaps half a liter or so). Don't forget how hot those metal pails get, even in the shade. I noticed that the other day, ouch.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> ...I also have a small 2 gallon pressurized garden sprayer that we use to spray down the dogs bellies, the males gonads and giving them controlled drinks on breaks and after training, it works for cooling down the decoys too.
> 
> It really helps to know first aid for heat exhaustion that in turn educates yourself to the symptoms in the first place to avoid it escalating. Heavy heavy panting reddish gums and tongue, dopiness...


When doing bite work or sheep herding, I haven't done any warm ups, the dogs have already been out moving or bouncing off the kennels.

When it's hot/humid, I think the* garden sprayer* idea is a great one if you don't have access to misting garden hose to do the same techniques. My understanding is a mild cool down of water rather than jumping straight into it is best. 

Also, I don't let them drink more than a *few ounces* of water after a session. Well after training, drink all the water you want. The idea of water retained blout is something to be very mindful of with the deep chested breeds. BOUVIERS, ROTTWEILERS


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Geoff you spray your decoys gonads??????? 
We warm up our dogs with a bit of ball. Kind of the same routine as Geoff. I dont usually let them drink till the end. If they are really starting to weaken and we need to finish something then ill maybe give them a little drink. I try and work the dogs till they are hot and tired. Sometimes I push them to the limit so they and I know that they will work and can deal with the heat.
Then I take them on a bit of a walk give em a drink and stick them in a crate. I find most people want to get back to the field to watch and forget about taking care of the dogs. 
I never have mine in AC. They are in the back of the truck and out side always. No ice etc.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

On the subject of water buckets, I keep a flexible rubber bowl in my truck for water. Works great for winter and summer because it won't freeze or burn. I can't find a link of anything similar online, but I know I got it at Pets Plus awhile ago. By far my favorite bowl to keep in the car all the time.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Geoff you spray your decoys gonads???????


Sure why not, gotta keep those stinky bastards fresh somehow! LOL! :lol:



Daniel Lybbert said:


> Then I take them on a bit of a walk give em a drink and stick them in a crate. I find most people want to get back to the field to watch and forget about taking care of the dogs.


Exactly! People rarely warm up their dogs enough let alone cool them off. It doesn't take much just a short walk so they pee and de-stress a bit. Just a 5 -10 minute stroll is all it takes really.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Geoff is right people don't warm up their dogs and don't allow a cool down period for after working their dogs. 

My buddy just started doing IPO, for years he did weight pulling with his dogs. He has a routine he does before every OB and protection session. Just walks the dog for about 5 mins and then has the dog drag some weight for another 5 mins before every OB and protection session. He puts a dog on a harness and has the dog drag some weight. Made a clever heavy duty vinyl bag that has velcro so he can put as much weight in the bag. Usually he puts no more than 3lbs plates. After the session, walks the dog for 5- 10 min cool down session. 

Went to a seminar a few months ago and saw the presenters (multiple CH IPO winner) doing the same thing.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I have a pesticide sprayer...filled with water, I mist the dogs with, I have fans hooked to the marine battery for air. I do the walks. I let em' drink. I fill thier bowl and re-fill it when it's empty. But my dogs do not attack the water bowl and drink massive amounts of water even sweltering hear....Kibble fed dogs sure like to drink 2 gallons of water after working. Mine 2 cups max. 


So, I think pay attention to what they are eating. Also, pre-hydration is something to think about. and I do not mean just offering water. I Take some chickens blood and put in 4 cups of water prior to working on extreme days. this makes the dogs drink all the water and gives it time for some osmosis to happen.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I strech my dogs neck too when warming them up.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

I don't fully understand why you would restrict water from your canine? what is the actual cause of water bloat - how much over drinking ? 

when working or on dog hikes, I always 'hand water' my dog so I know how much he's getting.

I keep a battery operated fan on my dog in his crate.and have used blue ice in crate. keep in shade and off hot pavement.

As for using water on the dog, remember water can hold in the heat and act as an insulator.

For our endurance horses that go 50 to 100 miles, we use water/alcohol mixture or put water on and wipe off (which is hard to do w/ a dog furr coat) to cool them down. also horses get as much water as they want anytime as long as they keep moving. some people used to think the same thing, don't let a hot horse drink,. But that's just dumb. we don't let them drink really cold water. if it's luke warm and they are moving around, they get all the water they will drink. and we use alot of electrolytes. also really cold water on the skin actually shrinks the sweat glands and can cause muscle cramps but that's a horse problem not a dog one.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Geoff you spray your decoys gonads???????


Only if they've done a real good job ;-)


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## kenneth roth (Jul 29, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I mentioned it on the other thread, but I'll repeat it here. What's been working well is doing short intense sessions of only 3-5 minutes (usually works out to about 3-5 bites) but have 3-4 total sessions instead of 1-2 longer ones. Instead of running the dogs back to the crate, I walk them out for 5 minutes, let them get just enough water to wet their whistle (10 laps), take the water away for a few more minutes, wet their belly, neck, and legs, and maybe walk them out for another minutes before putting them up with some more water (perhaps half a liter or so). Don't forget how hot those metal pails get, even in the shade. I noticed that the other day, ouch.


This will work training dogs for an AD title?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Donna DeYoung said:


> I don't fully understand why you would restrict water from your canine? what is the actual cause of water bloat - how much over drinking ?
> 
> when working or on dog hikes, I always 'hand water' my dog so I know how much he's getting.
> 
> ...


Well, it's not exactly restricting water. It's more that I don't want a dog blowing really hard just coming off the field and then sucking down a bunch of water while their abdomen is still heaving up and down from trying to pant hard. Once they are a bit more settled, they can have a bit more.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

kenneth roth said:


> This will work training dogs for an AD title?


Both times I've ran a dog for an AD, it was either early spring (March) or mid fall (November), so it was not really a problem I had to deal with. When I would train, we'd ride for 4 miles, quick break for water and a walk to pee, and get back to it fairly quickly.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Dogs must get a lactic acid build up after heavy exercise. That's why I like to have them urinate after coming off the field to keep all that moving. That way I do know that they are hydrated as well. I don't think anyone is saying to "restrict" water from your canine. But to control it so the dog doesn't over do it. 

I'm not a big fan of rubbing alcohol and these magic mixes of rubbing alcohol and h20 either. To easy for the dog to ingest it. Rubbing alcohol is easily twice as toxic as regular alcohol. I'd only use rubbing alcohol as a first aid treatment never ever as just a cooling agent on its own. It evaporates to quickly and the danger of ingestion is always there.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re "what causes -water- bloat ??"

PLEASE correct me if i'm wrong but i only think we know "what" is is, not "why" it happens, and still gathering stats on the known bloat cases that get reported.
- which may be why we know some breeds that seem to be more susceptible to bloat, but the why it happens part is still mostly speculative


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

When I was doing herding T got me into stretching and massaging Thunder's back, neck and legs when we got through. It really seemed to relax him and and keep him from getting tight. 
Herding was way more intense and longer lasting then bite work.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

On the bloat, years ago as a part of the Purdue information owners supplied information regarding under what conditions their dogs had bloated---chugging water was one of them as well as eating ice and /or snow in the winter. So for the herding dogs as Bob said, 1) don't let them get too hot to begin with; 2) let them rest for several minutes before water2) trot them around and stretch/massage. Occassionally Thunder would go hit the stock tank but he wasn't one to want to drink water when hot or to really get that hot. I've only had one that would chug water when hot and didn't allow it. Lots of people really object when I say they can't have water right away as if they feel like they are deprived. Depending on the dog, I'll wait 15 minutes or so and then only a little water. The self regulators don't seem to drink anyway and a couple would go stand in a stock tank. No vari kennels in the car durin gthe summer. Only wire crates for air circulation. I also have fans but don't use those often. Also have one of those mesh reflective tarps for when I'm at trials or someone elses farm. At home, we work and the dogs trot around while I feed and water and then back into the air conditioning. I train alot in the evening and at night since we hit 100 degree days. I'm trying to figure out whether I want to enter my client dog in an August trial. I'm really reluctant. Her owner says go for it. She does seem pretty tolerant but I think it really comes down to the fact that I don't have that much experience with her to really know her tolerances and I'm afraid to risk it. 

With the herding dogs, if you ever put in some of those entire day working days, they learn real quick to conserve energy and self regulate.

T


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Especially with our cold Winters here, I warm the dog up with a run down and around the field before it's our turn to bite. 

In Summer, we let them cool down with a walk before putting them in the kennel. Water, IF the dog wants to drink - no force.


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