# how to temperament test kill shelter GSD adult?



## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Hey all,
I found what looks to be a working line young female GSD, silver or grey sable (and gorgeous) med size at a kill shelter. In the pic online her ears are down so it was questionable on her breeding. but once I saw her in person, she looked just like my working line gsd w/ perhaps a sharper nose and cleaner ears and mask ... Only other breed influence I see is maybe some huskie? She comes up for adoption in a few days. not spayed, don't know if she is HW+ or not yet.

I was only able to see her thru the window. She seemed calm. Got up a few times to look thru glass or at other dogs. (compared to another dog there that instantly saw me and was jumping up and wagging tail). Shelter workers say she barks "like any GSD" when they first come in kennels in am to clean. When in kennel, she will come up and sniff their hand or brush against them. Doesn't appear dog aggressive to dogs coming and going.

I'll have a chance to interact w/ her when she comes out of her hold on adoption day (first come, first served). So I was wondering what kinds of things could I test her for to see what potential she might have? Was thiking to take along a ball and a tug toy... what suggestions do you have? I don't want a "huge project" dog...just a normal project LOL. Would like to add this dog for another deterrant/watch dog and companion. Have 2 other spayed females and spayed male -pretty easy going. They all get along now (after lots of training/socializing).

thanks


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2010)

You could take the dog for a walk for starters. Take some time to get to know the dog before you start throwing stuff and tugging. Try to get her somewhere quiet so she can decompress a little from being in such a stressful environment and having lost her home wherever that might have been. Then you can see if you can engage her in some tug. What kinds of things are looking for from this thread? Not sure what else to say except good for you for considering a shelter animalO


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

If it was me, I would take a leash, a bottle of rocks, baby rattle of some sort and ask them to take dog for a drive. Just loading up and unloading a dog in a new situation will tell you a whole bunch. Then I'd just walk along ball fields, traffic, playground, etc....and every so often drop something I brought with me to see the behavior of the dog and what it does, cower, run, piss on itself, bite it and pick it up....how it overcomes is just important

Just that alone will tell me whether or not I want to continue with anything. The temperment and enviormental status of the dog is key and gives you a picture of how the nerves are and what potential you may have with whatever you are going to do.

It's something simple, and will tell you quite a bit about a dog in my opinion, but to take out a ball/tug right away may do too much and if the dog has drive, it may hide things I want. (Example: Dog goes up/down stairs chasing a ball, but to walk up on leash without ball/stim, dog backs out of collar?) WTF?

Just my two cents


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

walk into the shelter with a leash, open the kennel door, put the leash on the dog, and drop a heavy metal pipe on the ground. If she smashes into the pipe and you cant choke her off of it then continue with the test. If not, keep looking. Hope this helps.:grin:


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> put the leash on the dog, and drop a heavy metal pipe on the ground. If she smashes into the pipe and you cant choke her off of it then continue with the test.


Call Mike right away :lol:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Call Mike right away :lol:


 absolutley!! Call me if she passes that part of the test, I will advise you of other tests to do and then at the end of the day if she passes we can both make some money on her and put her in a place where she can work everyday. :grin:


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Having had nearly 200 rescue GSDs through our home the past 10 years, testing at AC will give you a basic idea but only after the honeymoon period of about 3 weeks at your home will you pretty much know what you have. That is what I learned over the years. I had some passive, low drive rescues turn into maniacs after the first month. One of the many Katrina rescues here took nearly six months to rehab as he had lived off scavenging for 3 months and was a walking skeleton, full-blown heartworms. His prey drive was intensived by the necessity for survival, eating rodents and such. By the time he was ready to go, he would not let a soul could come near me. Also, be sure and be careful introducing a new female to your own; do it on neutral grounds, one at a time, as my worst dog fights with rescues were bitch fights. Get her in your routine immediately. If you do indeed adopt her, thank you very much for your effort.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> absolutley!! Call me if she passes that part of the test, I will advise you of other tests to do and then at the end of the day if she passes we can both make some money on her and put her in a place where she can work everyday. :grin:


For real? Most of the rescues I have run across in shelters across the south were there because they needed a job. We may be onto something here. \\/


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Denise Gatlin said:


> For real? Most of the rescues I have run across in shelters across the south were there because they needed a job. We may be onto something here. \\/


Let me clarify, not 'most' but a lot of the rescues had working potential, those of which I used to send to Shreveport for further training for LE and were then donated for such. About 40 rescues went that route, but the trainer has had serious health issues recently so I stopped rescue altogether. That and the expense of rescue versus putting my daughter through college.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Denise Gatlin said:


> For real? Most of the rescues I have run across in shelters across the south were there because they needed a job. We may be onto something here. \\/


Yes, "for real" call me anytime you have one that is insane for a metal pipe, very possesive of all objects with excellent hunt drive, super environmental nerves, in good health with good hips, back, and elbow X rays, under 3 years old with a social temperament.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

mike suttle said:


> Yes, "for real" call me anytime you have one that is insane for a metal pipe, very possesive of all objects with excellent hunt drive, super environmental nerves, in good health with good hips, back, and elbow X rays, under 3 years old with a social temperament.


I will do that. But I would probably be afraid to drop the pipe in front of them. I did have one that came my way once that was like that (part of a package deal, I ended up keeping only the dobe). I was glad my friend's soon-to-be ex-husband wanted the dog back. She was driving me crazy. I should have called you. 

PS. not sure I can take the dog out of the grounds, In noticed they had a large open play area and several small pen areas for people to get to know the dogs in.

great responses, thanks so far.!


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## Christopher Fox (Dec 24, 2009)

> But I would probably be afraid to drop the pipe in front of them.


I would bet 99.9% of all dogs would fail that test. I don't claim to be an expert on dogs in general and definitely not working dogs, but that sounds like a good test for aggression, in addition to other things. I would bet if the GSD you are talking about could pass that test it wouldn't be alive for you to consider because it would have bit somebody in the shelter by now when they pissed her off. In fact, it probably wouldn't have made it to a kennel in a shelter because the reason it was there was because it probably bit somebody and the kill shelter would have done just that upon intake, killed her. At least ones I am familiar with.

Only commenting because it took a bit for me, meaning a few months, to come to grips with the fact that dogs of this type, ones that will let some stranger come into a kennel, leash it, drop a metal pipe on the ground and then attack the pipe are pretty rare, in general, let alone the happenstance of one ending up in a shelter for adoption to the general public.

There is a little extra something in these types of working dogs vs. other working dogs, even real ones, like working livestock dogs. The self confidence and natural aggression of working dogs is rare and not prone to survive a shelter situation waiting to be adopted.

I am kind of coming to think of them as the only _real_ dogs left that are actually domesticated dogs and not dog-pets.

But, I ain't an expert.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Christopher Fox said:


> I would bet 99.9% of all dogs would fail that test. I don't claim to be an expert on dogs in general and definitely not working dogs, but that sounds like a good test for aggression, in addition to other things. I would bet if the GSD you are talking about could pass that test it wouldn't be alive for you to consider because it would have bit somebody in the shelter by now when they pissed her off. In fact, it probably wouldn't have made it to a kennel in a shelter because the reason it was there was because it probably bit somebody and the kill shelter would have done just that upon intake, killed her. At least ones I am familiar with.
> 
> Only commenting because it took a bit for me, meaning a few months, to come to grips with the fact that dogs of this type, ones that will let some stranger come into a kennel, leash it, drop a metal pipe on the ground and then attack the pipe are pretty rare, in general, let alone the happenstance of one ending up in a shelter for adoption to the general public.
> 
> ...


You are correct that 99.9% of the dogs will fail that test, but you are wrong about the ones who pass it being aggressive. I have several very strong metal dogs here that have zero handler aggression. Those two things have nothing in common. I have seen strong metal retrievers who also happened to be handler aggressive, and socially aggressive toward people, but the things that drive a dog to retrieve are usually not the same things that drive him to bite people.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Mike,

I'm sure you've said this before, but what is your metal test for?

I have a metal test too but not like yours! I just need a dog to touch metal with its teeth. Make sure the dog can move on to retrieving car keys, metal cans, silverware, etc. ...


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## Christopher Fox (Dec 24, 2009)

Maybe I used the wrong words as I wasn't implying handler aggression, but the level of aggression the dog has. I guess I was referring to the fight aspect, the natural inclination to go after the source the metal pipe, the dog's wired reaction to a pretty startling intrusion. As far as the biting people, yea talking out my a$$ a bit. Going off of my judgements I have made from people that have worked at shelters and that I would not define their knowledge or skills as 'handlers' and I was imagining all of the different ways an inexperienced dog person could get bitten by a stable working dog.

I am here to learn, though so how about a bit more about the pipe? I understand what you are looking for in the dog when it hits the ground, I think, but could you explain the retrieve connection and the significance of a 'metal dog'? I know a person, btw, with a female rottie that likes to carry metal poles around, throw inthe air with her muzzle, etc. Are you saying that indicates something to you as an accurate generalization about a dog's temperment?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Christopher Fox said:


> Maybe I used the wrong words as I wasn't implying handler aggression, but the level of aggression the dog has. I guess I was referring to the fight aspect, the natural inclination to go after the source the metal pipe, the dog's wired reaction to a pretty startling intrusion. As far as the biting people, yea talking out my a$$ a bit. Going off of my judgements I have made from people that have worked at shelters and that I would not define their knowledge or skills as 'handlers' and I was imagining all of the different ways an inexperienced dog person could get bitten by a stable working dog.
> 
> I am here to learn, though so how about a bit more about the pipe? I understand what you are looking for in the dog when it hits the ground, I think, but could you explain the retrieve connection and the significance of a 'metal dog'? I know a person, btw, with a female rottie that likes to carry metal poles around, throw inthe air with her muzzle, etc. Are you saying that indicates something to you as an accurate generalization about a dog's temperment?


it has nothing to do with aggression. it is about the dogs drive to retrieve. Just like when you drop a ball next to him. It does not startle him, it is just a way to test his desire to pick up anything that moves.


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## Christopher Fox (Dec 24, 2009)

So, if it is nothing more than the desire to retrieve you are looking for, the significance of the metal pipe is nothing more than a metal pipe makes a lot of noise when it hits concrete? Could be any object retrievable by a dog that would make a loud, startling, foreign sound when dropped then? To check for that drive compulsion to overwhelm any other, like the desire to get the hell away from a loud object that hurts your ears when dropped, and go get it anyway regardless of it being an identified source of discomfort? Retrieving through the pain?

Am I close to your reasons? Sorry to be a pain, just trying to understand ...


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Christopher Fox said:


> So, if it is nothing more than the desire to retrieve you are looking for, the significance of the metal pipe is nothing more than a metal pipe makes a lot of noise when it hits concrete? Could be any object retrievable by a dog that would make a loud, startling, foreign sound when dropped then? To check for that drive compulsion to overwhelm any other, like the desire to get the hell away from a loud object that hurts your ears when dropped, and go get it anyway regardless of it being an identified source of discomfort? Retrieving through the pain?
> 
> Am I close to your reasons? Sorry to be a pain, just trying to understand ...


 
There is a search engine, use it, he has explained this countless times....](*,)


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## Christopher Fox (Dec 24, 2009)

Fair enough. New subject to me. Never heard of a metal dog. Wasn't expecting multiple discussions on the site about the subject nor was I even thinking along the lines of retrieving and detection dogs with the whole, 'If she smashes into the pipe and you cant choke her off of it,'. I have been looking at lots of videos of bite work, etc., so I conjured up a different image entirely of what was going on.



> There is a search engine, use it


Yes I know there is one. I am new to working dogs, not the internet or forums. So sorry to have caused you frustration to the point that you need to emote to the world about it.

Search performed, questions, answered, go back to your smiley faces Jody.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Here are some pics of the dog. She is 4 yrs old. picked up as a stray by animal control. had tags. owner came in 5 days after they called him, and id'd her. then 3 days later decided to give her up. "no longer wanted". She has been there for 2 weeks. was very interested in the plastic bag full of goodies I had and I didn't have a metal pipe but she did go after the fluffy tug and even held onto it while I tugged it. was able to lure her into a sit and she also stood up on her hind legs for the food. she was very interested in looking out the window and at the people. bottle w/ rocks did not phase her. no manners or training but not pushy, just distracted. officer said try speaking Spanish to her. 

I drove by her former home in a residential neighborhood of small homes and saw a nice house w/ a tall privacy fence and small yard. Will call former owner and see what else I can find out. she is still at shelter and gets spayed next week. I think she will make a nice pet and deterrant dog and a nice little training project as well. I'm glad I could rescue her.

what do you think of this color? wolf or grey sable? is it common?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Me thinks mike was being funny...but also needs metal retrievers...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Great looking dog, Donna. Good luck with placing her in an appropriate home.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Great looking dog, Donna. Good luck with placing her in an appropriate home.


I am placing her w/ myself  at my doggy paradise - huge yard for playing, big pastures for running, stock pond to swim in, great views, occasional roaming wildlife and fowl to experiment with (peacocks, snakes, armadillo, skunk to name a few this summer), occassional country road traffic to bark at, shade trees, lush grass to lay in, great sunsets, fly control provided (fly predators), fun barn to explore, house friendly to dogs (even has some doggy decor), air conditioned and heated plush living quarters at nite (in the house), and a herd of horses to stare at all day, etc.

Compared to having lived in a postage sized yard w/ no view ... I hope she likes it


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Outstanding! Keep us posted on her progress.


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## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

Good luck with her! She's gorgeous.



I'd say her colouring is not uncommon. She looks a lot like my own dog.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

very pretty doggy! Good luck with her. Glad you are giving her a good home.


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## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

she looks like there's some husky or malamute in her. Cute little thing though


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Search performed, questions, answered, go back to your smiley faces Jody.[/QUOTE]


:grin:#-o:grin::grin:


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Uhh, Donna.... could you rescue me? That sounds like a perfect life! lol


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

smokey is at the vet being neutered this afternoon. x-large crate at home and shaded kennel to keep her sep from other dogs for awhile is ready.

I think they name just about everything at the shelter a "shepherd" mix if it is over 50 lbs! they had a pit mix and bulldog mix labeled as shepherds. Also had a large white shepherd given up bec his owner was in jail and the owner's parents couldn't take care of it.

here is her mug shot from petfinder.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

PS. She cost $10 plus spay/vet costs.
has anyone here taken a dog from a shelter and got them a Sch title? what groups accept non-papered dogs in competition?
thanks.


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

Good on you Donna...she looks like a nice dog and she certainly hit the jackpot on new homes.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Donna DeYoung said:


> has anyone here taken a dog from a shelter and got them a Sch title? what groups accept non-papered dogs in competition?
> thanks.


 A good friend of mine took a pitbull from a shelter and put a SchH 3 title on it.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> PS. She cost $10 plus spay/vet costs.
> has anyone here taken a dog from a shelter and got them a Sch title? what groups accept non-papered dogs in competition?
> thanks.


You register the dog as a "mix breed" with USA and trial for titles (after a couple of years training off course). The percentage of success is not very high but there are always exceptions.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Donna DeYoung said:


> PS. She cost $10 plus spay/vet costs.
> has anyone here taken a dog from a shelter and got them a Sch title? what groups accept non-papered dogs in competition?
> thanks.


Since she's getting spayed, you can get the ILP (called something else now by the AKC) for her. My old dog was a Mal/GSD mix from a shelter and I got a Sch AD on him. Was listed as mix on his Sch USA score book. Was working towards the BH, but our club folded. He now is a herding dog for his new owner and I suspect he could start doing the HT or PT herding tests soon. My female rescue Malinois is working in PSA and herding and will hopefully be able to go for her PDC next year. She has a noticeable limp from her neurological condition, so I don't think my husband will be able to show her in AKC herding even though it's non-painful. My female shelter Rottweiler will probably be able to trial for the HT or PT herding tests, maybe as early as this fall. She's already a certified therapy dog.


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## Alan Fielding (Dec 7, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> PS. She cost $10 plus spay/vet costs.
> has anyone here taken a dog from a shelter and got them a Sch title? what groups accept non-papered dogs in competition?
> thanks.


One of our Club members started Schutzhund with her rescue Gsd and put a herding instinct title on the dog as well as SchH Obedience titles 1,2 and three as well as tracking 1,2,and 3. So, it can be done !!


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