# "Great" Catches



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn_AnOiYi_c


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Nice catches but the first dog's bite is total crap. The dog has maybe a 1/4 bite, you can see it real good in the slow motion part of the first dog, rest of the dogs look good though.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

the broken legs and dislocations don't bother you Harry?


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

not sure where your getting that question Chris be more specific on that question and I will gladly answer.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> not sure where your getting that question Chris be more specific on that question and I will gladly answer.


All of the dogs were hurt in the video thus the reason I labeled it "great" catches.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Sorry Chris missed that part my bad. And to answer your question its not worth hurting a dog for a smuck decoy. I would not put my dogs in that situation. Honestly I be looking to kick someones ass after messing my dog up. Like I said I missed the main point I guess Chris sorry once again.


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## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

So how often does this happen, dogs getting jammed or legs broken in sport? I understand the dogs come full bore and thrust their entire weight at the decoy. How much of this is prevention (provided the decoy is good) and how much is accident and could happen to the best of them?

Are neck/back injuries more common in SCH b/c of the sleeve and not so much in ringsports b/c of the suit? 

I am trying to see whats going on here.

Sucks for these particular dogs.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

A dog getting hurt can happen at anytime reguardless of the sport, same with the decoys. It sure does suck, but it happens. However if the decoy is not working safe, then the odds go up greatly for both decoy and dog. If you can't handle the possibility of your dog getting hurt, than maybe you should try something else with your dog.


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## Toran Scott (Mar 27, 2009)

I've seen this video a few times, sucks... I would never want to be on the sleeve end of injuring a dog, especially at what looked like a big trial (I thought this was a regional or national trial if not higher). I know some teach the running drive and some teach the skip drive. Not sure if it would have mattered here or not. I have to imagine that these helpers had worked a number of other trials previously and tried out for this privilege... but I don't know. Regardless of who's fault it actually was the decoy will often take the brunt of the blame... 
I gotta agree with Edward though, its a sport, and a contact sport at that, there will be injuries sooner or later. My Dutchie will sometimes try to grab a leg with her paws on the drive or escape (once she's on the bite obviously), I don't like that (for a couple of reasons  ) but especially because I fear she could get tangled up between a leg. Her leg will injure/break/hyperextend much easier than any decoy's leg. I hope I never do it to anyone's dog and I hope that it never happens to mine.
Toran


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

First time I saw this video it made me weep :-& It still makes me sick! Not laying blame on either the dogs and/or decoys.....stuff happens. But when you see multiple dogs being injured, it's up to the Judge to put a STOP to it!!

If I was on deck and saw more than one dog being crippled up, I would pull. 

If I remember correctly this was some big Championship in Europe.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

p.s. One dog had to be euthanized, I think. That is a sad day for dog sports ;(


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

makes me want to be more careful and to slow down I am not that good
thank you for the reminder


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## Michelle Kutelis (Sep 28, 2006)

This was the FMBB World Championships in 2007.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks Michelle  I should have known you'd know \\/


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I thought I heard that 16-17 dogs overall were hurt and 3 had the be euthanize because of the poor helper work. I'm not sure but perhaps somebody knows for real.

I wonder if anybody beat the shit out of those helpers after the trial.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Chris,

You left out the Judge and handlers... EVERYONE needed an ass whoopin.' What a cluster f***... 

I'm with you Candy. Unchecked ego and stupidity would put your dog in that situation. I thought the handler was supposed to be the brains of the team!


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

It was a cluster **** from the start. The French Mal club hosted this event. The venue was very inadequate. I remember talking to a friend that was their rooting on the German team and other competitors. The field was shit to begin with, low spots uneven, some pot hole, If I remember right. After the first couple of dogs that got hurt I believe one of the helpers wanted to pulled and have the alternate helper be put in, but the judge did not allow at first. As a helper hard to recover to work dog after dog especially since it seems like every other dog get hurt. If you watch more of the videos (if you can) the helpers stop testing the dogs and were just trying to make safe catches, bites,ect... 

You can't just blame the helper but all involved, the judge, the host club, the FMBB


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Ive seen it once a couple of years ago and ain't watching it again.


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Wow that is very sad! I know it can happen, even to with good decoys sometimes too.... dogs move in unexpected ways sometimes or maybe an off day for the decoy. I try to pay very close attention to how dogs are being worked and I would still find it very hard for myself to not beat the living day lights out of someone!!!! Very hard to watch..... Glad we all have common sense though to pull our dogs if something like this is repeatedly seen.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Michelle Kutelis said:


> This was the FMBB World Championships in 2007.


 
Yep in France.

If a performance like that in the U.S. got even a sniff of attention from A.R. We most likely would be fighting more than BSL here. 

did anything ever come of that? Did the Judge get any type of reprimand, host club, anyone? 

I think if a helper hurts one dog, the judge should be on his heels, second dog...relieve the helper of all his duties. 

If the Judge, host club, or even an officer of the FMBB in attendance let a trial continue with approx, 15 dogs getting hurt...Where do you think they would have called it? 20 dogs, 25?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

There was a pretty good breakdown of what went wrong on longwoods forum a year or so ago.


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

I contacted officers in the FMBB to get further details on what happened. I have heard a number of rumors regarding this Championship. Originally someone said one dog was euthanized and that was later found to be not true. Now someone has stated three dogs were euthanized. These are fairly serious accusations. This was also broken down on the AWMA forum and it was mentioned that the footing of the Championships was a polo field filled with divots which caused some of the unsafe conditions. Also consider we are talking about catching the fastest Belgian Malinois in the world which you have never seen or worked before. There are a lot of variables as to what happened and why but rather than further misinformation, I hope the officers at the FMBB will give a more accurate account of the injures. I will re-post the response received.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Per the results page 4 or 5 were injured.

This was the letter from the Czech Malinois Club to the FMBB....broke up into 2 parts as their were too many characters....

*[FONT=&quot]CZECH MALINOIS CLUB
Václav Kejř – president
[/FONT]**[FONT=&quot]Neklanova 2708,
413 01 Roudnice nad Labem[/FONT]**[FONT=&quot] 
Czech Republic [/FONT]**[FONT=&quot] 
[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot]Prague [/FONT][FONT=&quot]15.06.2007[/FONT]
*[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]*
[FONT=&quot]Dear Mr. President[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Our reference is made, once again, to the just finished World championship FMBB 2007 in IPO3 in Le Touquet Paris Plage. We all surely have the knowledge how big wave of the emotions was called out, mainly regarding the part C – defense.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Big part of this [/FONT][FONT=&quot]emotions was caused by showed work of helpers during this championship. We are sure that the helpers didn’t want hurt any dog, but on the other side they manifest being not able[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to [/FONT][FONT=&quot]perform in such competition. We are sure that at this moment totally failed the judge of part C as well as the supervisor[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of all [/FONT][FONT=&quot]contest, those had to settle the resulted situation before the injuries of the dogs. Moreover totally collapsed the organization, when our team-member with his injured dog was threw to the wolves and no-one bother to call the vet in charge.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We have the opinion that such serious mistakes could not never happen in such top competition as Worldchapionships of FMBB surely[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Therefore we ask to debate the reason of weak work of helpers. As result should be the definition of responsibility of particular person for selection of helpers, their not sufficient performance, from that were consequent [/FONT][FONT=&quot]injuries of the dogs and in [/FONT][FONT=&quot]case of need to call such person to the responsibility.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The problems that appear during this Worldchapionships are only the culmination of the problems, which FMBB has to settle already longer time. Our dog Octavius Malidaj from our team was heavy injured during the part C. If the dog-handler who has to spend a lot of time and money, loose in one moment all chance not only during this championship, we cannot be surprised by his reaction, however we don’t excuse. The dog has strong of the skew ness of the hock.(Enclose you can find the vet report. The general vet statement incl. X-rays, CT and magnetic resonance will be sent by the end of the curing.). We all fully understand that the character of the injury could with big probability cause the end of sporting career, for only 
4 years old dog, possibly with lifelong outgrowths in moving of injured leg.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We rely on fact that the French organizer properly reported this insurance accident, as it was promised with the presence of the chairman of working commission FCI by secretariat of the Championship[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The cost relating to the therapy will be surely over 2,000,- Euros and our team-member will ask to pay these costs.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]At the same moment we would like to ask you to give us the Number of the insurance policy and the name of the insurance company which guaranteed the insurance of this event and/or give us the exact instruction how to ask to pay the cost relating to this accident[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We all surely understand that right now is a high time for settlement with respect to the future. Currently is demanding to perform the biting works in high speed and hardness in biting. If we train the dogs in such way, we must have on the other side such prepared helpers whose minimize the risk level of injury of the dog, otherwise every injury in such speed and harness could be fatal for every dog.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]You surely confirm, Mr. President, that three heavy injuries of the dogs during three days this is really unnatural – lighter injuries are not mentioned here. That is precisely why this situation is calling for immediate establishment of working commission of IPO, which must, by its work, avoid such accidents.[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]*[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In Czech Republic we have such system of the education of the helpers, which during the top events could work only the best one, whose have to pass through heavy tests. These tests are divided into the practical part where they must show their ability to work with the dog and the theoretical part where are the rules of IPO, SchH and fe. anatomy of the dog.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moreover their qualification is valid for 2 years only and after that time they must do all tests again. With respect to the fact that the breed of Belgian shepherds is very fast and penetrative, it asks big demands not only for professional skills of every helper but also to his mind. Possible way how to improve the global level of the helpers for the breed of Belgian shepherds should be the selection of some helpers from countries that are members of FMBB and those should be nominated for the Championships[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]beside that we can also unify the work of the helpers. We are almost sure that members of FMBB to increase the attractiveness of its events and to confront the quality of its dog will invite a “foreign” helper. This should be one of the activities of the working committee op IPO – control and selection of the helpers. Czech Republic as organizer of jubilee 15th World championship of Belgian shepherds is ready to organize such selection.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]By the same end we would like to pay your attention to our proposals for remedies, which could avoid further situation and in any case don’t bring the benefits for further development of cynologic sport activities.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
*[FONT=&quot][/FONT]*


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Second part of the letter.....


*[FONT=&quot]ROPOSAL FOR THE REMEDIES FOR FMBB[/FONT]*​ *[FONT=&quot]1)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]**[FONT=&quot]Issue the implementer regulations for organizers of World championships FMBB where will be beside the other following regulations:[/FONT]*
[FONT=&quot]a)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Describe in detail the rights, obligations and responsibilities of every officials – i.e. organizer, judge, main judge and supervisor in case this official is established fe. International events.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Specify in detail the obligation of judge in part C of IPO 3 what does it mean – „instruct the helpers[/FONT][FONT=&quot]“.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Defined responsibility of particular person and/or persons for selection of the helpers - i.e. tracking and biting works[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]d)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]In part that is given to the helpers in part „C“ – IPO3 trial stress on the responsibility of the helpers to act in such way that cannot hurt the dog because of their poor performance duties[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]e)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Confirmation of the light for every participant to retire for the competition before and/or during the part C – IPO 3 trial due to the own decision. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Note[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: The participant in obliged to present his dog in part „A“ and „B” IPO3 trial[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
*[FONT=&quot]2)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]**[FONT=&quot]Launch statute „international helper“ and include to this category excellent helpers only, which will be capable to perform, because of their professional, moral and physical, an excellent work on international events[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]3)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]**[FONT=&quot]Launch the rules and criterions for delegacy of judges for World championships FMBB[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]4)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]**[FONT=&quot]For international events – World championship FMBB select one from the following possibilities:[/FONT]*
[FONT=&quot]a)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Announce a competition for helpers (fe. The same as it is done in Austria). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Delegate the helpers for international events, the same as the judges from the list of „international helpers[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot]“.[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]5)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]**[FONT=&quot]We ask FMBB to discuss the injuries of the dogs and weak performance of the helpers during the World championship 2007 in Le Touquet and define the responsible person for this situation with possible sequels[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]6)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]**[FONT=&quot]We ask FMBB to discuss with French organizers to pay-back all cost relating to the therapy of injured dogs during World championship FMBB in Le Touquet[/FONT]**[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]**[FONT=&quot]Paris Plage in shortest possible time.[/FONT]*
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We do hope, dear Mr. President, you fully understand the reasons which result in writing of above mentioned letter. Please do not understand this letter as the attack against FMBB itself , but as an intention to settle current problems before the protectors of the animals will step in this case with respect of injuries of the dogs they will restrict the performance the most attractive part of IPO trial – defense.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We rely on your constructive access in settlement of weak points that happened during the last World championship in 2007 and we expect your written answer.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sincerely yours[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]…………………………….. ……………………………………[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dušan Pospíchal Václav Kejř[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]delegate CMC in FMBB president CMC – Czech Republic[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c/[/FONT][FONT=&quot]c country delegates of member countries FMBB[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
*[FONT=&quot]FMBB [/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]Johan Weckhuyzen - president[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]Theo Dijkman – secretary 
Kamplaan 2[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]9462 TS Gasselte[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]Netherlands[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot]E : [/FONT][FONT=&quot][email protected][/FONT]
*[FONT=&quot]E: [email protected][/FONT]*


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## Petra StrUbing (Dec 17, 2009)

At least this dog did not live longer than december 2007:

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/1817/Aika vom Drachenherz/


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Wow, this really is irresponsible and poor decoy work... and the result for the dogs is very sad.
Who are those decoys?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Martine Loots said:


> Wow, this really is irresponsible and poor decoy work... and the result for the dogs is very sad.
> Who are those decoys?


I think before the Decoys get thrown to the flames. I am positive they did not hurt any dog with intentionally. They may have been unqualified to do the Job. We do not know what they were told. They may have been lead to believe that they were capable and encouraged to do the work. Thier inexperience may have also made them gullable into believing they could pull this off. 

I do not know if this is fact. But I heard the host club failed to secure a decoy, and held tryouts right before the trial. The pool of helpers was slim, and believe it or not, The helpers selected were the most qualified from the pool. Again that's here say.

but I look back to when I was first starting to learn how to be helper, I was an energetic, willing, ambitous young man. I also was very gullable, and little too cocky. If someone would have told me, I could work the FMBB and I would be fine. I would have been stupid and done it. 

I could see someone talking the inexperienced helpers into trying out and working the trial if the only other option would be to cancel the event. 

Mishaps are usually not one single failure....they are series of poor choices made on many levels...Not one catastrphoic failure.


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## Toran Scott (Mar 27, 2009)

Yeah, I gotta agree with James a bit here. I know over here (and I'm sure it's true in France and all over Europe... or at least hope it is...) you can't work a trial of this magnitude without being certified for it. Club level, Regional level, and National level, I would assume these helpers had the correct cert, although I could be wrong. Assuming they did, they would have had to work a number of trials previously under a few different judges who would given them good enough reviews to move up to that level. Now if this is not the case then my entire argument is out the window... I'd be curious to know what the helper selections were like and why the choices were made. I find it hard to believe that they would have been chosen for a world event if they hadn't shown the ability to do the work previously. If I were in charge of hosting a national event my first order of business would be securing the right judges, and a close second would be securing a solid pool of the best national level helpers with which to choose from come the selections.

There was definitely more injuries at this trial than should be expected and certainly a number of very serious ones to boot. It is awful to see and I'm sure the helper(s) felt terrible. I would expect though that at a trial like this the baddest, fastest Mali's on the planet would be there. I would also expect that if that was the case the potential for injury could go up, kinda like H.S. football and the NFL. As the level of power and speed increase so does the potential for injury. I wondered earlier if the type of drive had anything to do with it. Two or three of the dogs got their legs broken (or at least hyper-extended) because they got tangled up with the helpers. I am not sure what to do about that (besides not let it happen... often easier said than done, especially in the heat of a world trial I would assume). Overall it sucks for everyone involved. Although I'm sure the Czech pres. was emotionally involved he offered some really good suggestions for how to stop this from occuring in the future. I think having a game plan for what to do if a helper seems to be (unintentionally) dangerous is smart and whose responsibility it is to step in and when. I'm curious what kind of a response he got.
Toran


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I have a BIG problem with trashing decoys (and no I'm not a decoy) and
taking a short piece of video and looping it over and over again and playing it in slow motion. It sure looked like the decoys foot slipped before the dog even made contact on the first decoy? The field looked terrible, uneven with clumps. Last week our training field just got cleared of snow and the goose crap was as slippery as snot. Our national
level decoy was having trouble keeping his footing on short escape bites.
Try running and catching a Malinois going at full speed on a field like that.


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Is not about trashing the decoy's work, is obout thashing whoever put them there in the first place.

Accidents can happen to the very best, *one time is an accident 14 times is not*, bad field or not.

There are 2 world championship every year where the best malinois in the world can compete, FMBB and FCI, none beside the one mentioned above, had such a high numbers of injured dogs.

Is is still about the dog, do not forget that, not about the decoys. 

*Safety for the dog and the decoy should be number one priority.*

*The rest are just excuses*

Happy training

Max


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

I agree with Max. 

Just imagine you are there with your dog and you see those things happen while you know it will be your dog's turn later that day? How would you feel? What would you do?
Compete with the risk of a serious injury or worse? Retire from the trial while you have been working a whole year to qualify for that WC?

I really feel for those poor dogs and for their handlers.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Martine Loots said:


> I agree with Max.
> 
> Just imagine you are there with your dog and you see those things happen while you know it will be your dog's turn later that day? How would you feel? What would you do?
> Compete with the risk of a serious injury or worse? Retire from the trial while you have been working a whole year to qualify for that WC?
> ...


Hi Martine

I'd pull my dog in a heart beat. No title is worth crippling my dog over. Did any of the competitors or decoys go to the
organizers or judges and complain about the field conditions?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas [LEFT said:


> *Barriano*[/LEFT];166100]Hi *Martine*​
> I'd pull my dog in a heart beat. No title is worth crippling my dog over. Did any of the competitors or decoys go to the
> organizers or judges and complain about the field conditions?


I could only hope I we were at the end of the draw I think I would be out of there after the second mishap


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