# Building a Kennel



## Michaela Leathem (Jul 16, 2010)

Hello all, It has been a while that I was on this site. I was Writing to Jerry Last night or better yet in the early morning. :grin:. He told me to bring this topic which I wrote to him here in this forum. 
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First of all, I'M NOT A DOG BREEDER. 
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I Would like to ask you something in breeding. I have learned something and I'm shocked. But I need more infos . I'm not done yet with everything and anything. I gained probably 50 % on info's. ===================
What do YOU know about dog and breeding? DO do you know the word and the meaning of the " foundation breeding" in Dog's? Do you know the meaning of the word: "careful selected " breeding's ? ( I have to look it up myself , I do not know yet the answer. But I think I know what it means. ) . 
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That's what I have learned. Foundation breeding. Let's say this: You want to breed the black GSD. You know a Kennel A and you buy 2 good males. You train these males and show these males and buy from Kennel B the 3 bitches. Every dog you train and show are winner's. Now you want to breed them. You mix these dog's together and get 2 litters from each dog's. Nice solid black puppies. 
You keep from each litter 1 pup. NOW what are you doing, because you want to expand? Because you are a good breeder you tested every dog and they are genetic free of disease. Kennel C is living close and is trying to sell you a black GSD. But then you heard from somebody that their dog's are not solid black. In their background is also lighter color. Because you are you and you don't like this at all. This nice black dog will ruin your pack. Kennel C is out of question 
Now you are starting to breed your foundation. Inbreed your dogs. You can breed father and daughter 1 time together and Mother and son.( I have no idea if you can breed brother and sister together.) Cousins and Uncles. Close related as well. 
Now every litter is getting the name von Jerry Kennel. 
Because you inbred your line and selling some pup's. You do not want to tell this the people what are you doing. How would you call the offspring? Which Kennel name? ( I have no idea I have to find this out too, If the breeder do not change the name too. Like let's say JAY would love to start a Kennel. Let's say von Jay Kennel. SO your inbred pups may get the name Von Jay Kennel. ) ==========And so begins line breeding as well. Maybe "careful selected" Breeding. Why? If each pup should be tested for genetic free disease, The offspring should be genetic free. =========

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You may ask me now what about the paper's? Are they useless? I have no idea. I can't tell. I need to find this out too. Like I write, I have no idea right now about some stuff. I have to ask more questions. lol. And yes, I knew that rabbit breeder and guinea pig breeder do inbreeding. People who are in shows. because they do not want to loose their careful selected line. Found it out too. After bugging the people and listen to them. What will not win ends up for pet's snake,dog,or cat ( animals have to eat too. ;-) or even as BBQ. 
Rabbit breeding for food; You take and breed only meaty rabbits together. California or Rex. Mix them together. Which is fine. You don't show. For Fur, You inbreed your line which has nice fur. ( Meat and fur rabbit will end up in BBQ You don't care what you breed together). Now seriouse breeding for shows. You inbreed them. Because you do not want to loose your good line. You will never buy an outsider. Because this rabbit may ruin your entire herd. 
Now I told you about the rabbit breeding. Now think about this in the dog world. Yes it can be done but with the genetic free disease. Any other should be destroyed. 
But still there is one question: What about the paper's?? Will they be manipulated? I have no idea. 
But then it is also 1 question open: What about HD? Yes it still can come out , even though the parent's are free of genetic disease. Because nobody does know WHY they get HD. What is causes. Maybe the breeder has to feed the bitch more calcium and other joint stuff. WHY? The wolf is eating the bones from the kill as well. And I believe the hair or fur too. 

Yes I have to learn more that's for sure. I'm still in the baby shoe's and doing little steps.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So you want to inbreed black GSD's, but not have it on the pedigree, so you want to fake papers. Then you want to breed rabbits for meat and show.

So you are wanting to know how to build a building for both animals ?


Jerry, is this a joke ? That is some of the most retarded shit ever jammed together to make a paragraph.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Thats what I'm trying to figure out from this post. Fella you are way out in left field and then your way over in right field. Can you simply put what your trying to say because you are all over the place.](*,)


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Be nice guys. She is German and her English is so so. She has some interesting thoughts. She is asking because she really wants to know. She is seeking wisdom from us. Some of her questions deserve a better explaination than I can give so lets help her out. 
Thanks to my WDF people with the wisdom to help.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Jerry, WTF is she asking ?? I don't have a clue.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I'll help out but I'm at work and I'll have to get back to you all. Thanks for understanding.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

What thats what we are tryint to understand, maybe you can sum it up and you'll get all the responses needed hopely.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

OK Mikki, I'm giving it a shot.

Ok guys I think I got all her questions that she didn't answer for herself as her understanding. There's six. ( Maybe More )

#1) DO do you know the word and the meaning of the " foundation breeding" in Dog's? 

#2) Do you know the meaning of the word: "careful selected " breeding's ? 

The stuff about the black dogs was her way of trying to explain what she thinks she knows.

#3) You can breed father and daughter 1 time together and Mother and son.( I have no idea if you can breed brother and sister together.) Cousins and Uncles. Close related as well. 

#4) Because you inbred your line and selling some pup's. You do not want to tell this the people what are you doing.

#5) How would you call the offspring? Which Kennel name? ( I have no idea I have to find this out too, 

#6) You may ask me now what about the paper's? Are they useless? I have no idea. I can't tell. I need to find this out too. Like I write, I have no idea right now about some stuff. I have to ask more questions. lol.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> OK Mikki, I'm giving it a shot.
> 
> Ok guys I think I got all her questions that she didn't answer for herself as her understanding. There's six. ( Maybe More )
> 
> ...


The papers are good. They explain your breedings


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I think she should read some of Don's posts or maybe Don could respond as he seems to have the most experience with close inbreeding.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> I think she should read some of Don's posts or maybe Don could respond as he seems to have the most experience with close inbreeding.


 
I agree, but what is the endstate here? Goals? It's just a ton of questions all over the place. Before becoming a breeder most of these questions you should already know and have studied yourself. Also, have goals in mind, endstate, what you want to produce and why?


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Jody good point BUT she's not a breeder but she does have questions. Now she is all over the place but that too is a translation problem , that's cool. I think Don could explain a lot better than me. )


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## Maria Janota (Sep 24, 2009)

Fortunatly those words can be googled in German i belive. As for inbred there was this Austrian guy, Helmuth Wachtel who wrote a bit on this subject, should be also aviable in German ( link ). Lots of foundation stock talking, linebreeding and inbred.
If she`ll start breeding program let us know what the kennel name is.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

One thing that pops into my head right away is that she's German. In Germany, and some of the other FCI countries, don't they have rules limiting how close of a breeding you can do and still get papers?

That might be why the question about how you would paper the really close breedings, because in her country breeders might not be able to. While here in the US we can do whatever breedings we want and register them with AKC, so as long as the parents are registered, there is no reason to be faking papers.


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## Maria Janota (Sep 24, 2009)

FCI recommends limited inbreeding, but there are no specific restrictions ("_heavy inbreeding should be avoided"_) unless you are a member of a club that has it`s own rules (WUSV f ex may have such limitations, don`t know, never checked) and it may be a clue indeed. Surely heavy inbred is something people are less happy to see, so it`s probably better to fake papers.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

gentics, Like Jody said already what are you looking for in the end result for your pups to do, why and whats the reason for your breeding in the first place? It takes more than just breeding though, its the know how once those pups hit the ground to imprint them to see whos probally going to be good for what. Because the best parents bred still can be a complete crap shoot, you just lessing the chance of a crap shoot with breeding two good workers.


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## Michaela Leathem (Jul 16, 2010)

Ok, First of all , I"M NOT A BREEDER Heavens no. I Just want to learn the world dog in Breeding. 

And yes I'm from Germany and English is NOT my first language. I probably did made a mistake and wrote it in high sentence and words are all over the place which you are not used to. 

Jerry got that right. I just did asked YOU what these terms in your eyes means. I'm just want to learn what is going on behind the scene. 

Germany: I have no clue how they breed now the GSD's. In the 70's or 80's they where breeding who know's what together. Because of the stand. Thats why the HD was so big in common. Later they where trying to breed this out. Which failed as well.

Then we have the DDR breed. The breeders do say , make sure the kennel does exist. A lot of false ones are out. They are Mixing the DDR GSD with some other GSD's together and telling the new owner or new breeder that's an DDR breed. Adding on the paper's a Kennel which does not exist. 

The west Germans are saying that the red paper's are the best. Who know's if this is true. I knew a GSD who was a failure. 4rth generation and red paper. The Kennel does not exist anymore. I'm not surprised. 
VON MORITZER LAND. 
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UK Breeding's. I will rest my case here and shut my mouth. Here are some links. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8458223.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8458223.stm

Now you know how the British is doing. I'm wondering what they write in the paper's from the puppies. 

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I'm now In Florida and I'm not up to date in Germany what kind of rule they have. But yes, I can and will go ahead ask the breeder's from Oversea's as well. Learning about the Law's rules and regulation's in the dog world.


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## Maria Janota (Sep 24, 2009)

Michaela Leathem said:


> ===================
> UK Breeding's. I will rest my case here and shut my mouth. Here are some links.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8458223.stm
> ...


Actually they`re doing much worse, it is hilarious how they gave this research to the british cat breeder. Anyway good it has been done, but it is a gentle inquiry. My favourite is _Inherited defects in pedigree dogs. Part 1: Disorders related to breed standards_ and _Part 2: Disorders that are not related
to breed standards_.
That`s for FCI breeding for colors and fur.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Mikki I told you these people are great and the perfect place to ask questions. Great folks here. I'm proud to be part of this group.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

As for the kennel name, someone suggested use any name you want to BUT you cannot register your kennel name (with AKC anyway) without proving yourself as a breeder. 
I'm not sure what all the requirements are to do that.
If someone else comes along and uses that kennel name and decides to register it legally, your out of luck.
Those here with registered kennel names could tell you a lot better then me.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

The SV will not issue pink papers on dogs with linebreeding any closer than 3:2.


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