# Short Video Of My Male



## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Here is a clip from the Midwest PSA Decoy Camp held at the Dog House this past February.
The first part of the video is Rook and the PSA 1 scenario " attack on handler." hehehe This was Rook first time seeing a decoy with streamers and mopheads. Daryl asked if Rook could do the exercise I replied yes, it never dawned on me that there would be streamers and the like. Because those of us who are personally acquainted with him knew this would be Rook's reaction!LOL
Later that evening Cory worked Rook with the streamers and now he understands thats streamers aren't toys.:-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fFnwG43TZM


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Looks like he's having fun . Is that an ear pinch towards the end ?


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

he is going for the prey move....he is learning and as long as your having fun-that is most important and what matters, OR he could always become a cheerleader mascot for your local football team-if he doesn't get over his desire for pom poms . 

....be careful of the ear pinch to OUT technique- =; you could give him a hematoma- besides causing conflict during your OUTs.


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Yeah it was an ear pinch. Hell, I wasn't even sure if it would work as it's something I wouldn't normally do. But I was having a moment. Cory was razing me about the slow out. Making comments like why don't you just whisper in his ear! :-D 
So was feelng pressured especially since the club didn't fair well that day. The decoy wasn't able to cert and two of the dogs were ran...thankfully Rook wasn't one of them though!
The worst anyone could say that day about Rook was he's goofy, likes pom poms and needs more work on the out.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Lynda Myers said:


> Yeah it was an ear pinch. Hell, I wasn't even sure if it would work as it's something I wouldn't normally do. But I was having a moment. Cory was razing me about the slow out. Making comments like why don't you just whisper in his ear! :-D
> So was feelng pressured especially since the club didn't fair well that day. The decoy wasn't able to cert and two of the dogs were ran...thankfully Rook wasn't one of them though!
> The worst anyone could say that day about Rook was he's goofy, likes pom poms and needs more work on the out.


So this was a one time moment and not something new in your training ? I know how strongly you felt that you could train dogs 100% motivational with no corrections or compulsion . Must say I was quite shocked .


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)




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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My favorite AB!


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> So this was a one time moment and not something new in your training ? I know how strongly you felt that you could train dogs 100% motivational with no corrections or compulsion . Must say I was quite shocked .


 
You, I was there and didn't even notice it. Still didn't clue in that it was an ear pinch when I watched the video. He wouldn't let go because she moved up on the line. [Yes, tug toy conflict baggage]. He outs great when worked with reward through her and the tug. But, someone forgets that. Thennnnnn there's all that pressure to outfit him with a lot of bling.

Terrasita


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> You, I was there and didn't even notice it. Still didn't clue in that it was an ear pinch when I watched the video. He wouldn't let go because she moved up on the line. [Yes, tug toy conflict baggage]. He outs great when worked with reward through her and the tug. But, someone forgets that. Thennnnnn there's all that pressure to outfit him with a lot of bling.
> 
> Terrasita


Not quite sure what you are talking about . Are you saying the dog outs when Lynda has a reward and who is someone ?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> Not quite sure what you are talking about . Are you saying the dog outs when Lynda has a reward and who is someone ?


 
Okay, I lost the first attempt at this. Someone is Lynda. We worked with him one day with marking the out and rewarding with a toy--i.e. his favorite--plastic soda bottle which I threw. Their [decoy/Lynda] timing had been off. Once the mark was well timed and I tossed the bottle, the light bulb went off and he was clean with the outs thereafter. This was probably last summer. He had quick clean outs with that reward system. You have to know their history. She first instilled in himto never let the object go. If he let it go, game over. Then she always took the toy from him. He outs better at a distance. Every time she moves in on him in "take it from him mode," its deja vu and he clamps down. Then there is the fight for it. The other problem is consistent systematic work at it. The out hasn't been thoroughly trained/conditioned and he reverts to default. Decoys and consistent training with scenarios and building the out reliability has been slim to none. The out wouldn't be a big deal at all for this dog with consistent work. He'll bite all day long but I still say that reward through Lynda has higher value. Kinda like what you see with Jeff/Elizabeh and Mint. This was sorta the surprise with the pom poms. He'd never seen them before and it was "what cool toys." We knew that would happen so had a good laugh. Rook plays the bite work game. I've seen him serious once and that's when he seriously thought someone was pressuring Lynda. Stopped the guy cold in his tracks with a fixed stare and that was a warning. Before that, she would have said it wasn't in him. He is one of the easiest dogs to work. He will do what he is trained to do no matter who, what or where.

Terrasita


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> Not quite sure what you are talking about . Are you saying the dog outs when Lynda has a reward and who is someone ?


Jim, I'm actually that someone and Terrasita is correct Rook's outs are good at trials. But to take him out dry (unworked for close to a month) like at the decoy camp and his outs are slow and sticky. 
In hindsight was no big whoop and I shouldn't have allowed myself to be goaded into using the ear pinch. as a couple of handlers who use other methods of traininng, dogs were not outing very well either.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Lynda Myers said:


> Jim, I'm actually that someone and Terrasita is correct Rook's outs are good at trials. But to take him out dry (unworked for close to a month) like at the decoy camp and his outs are slow and sticky.
> In hindsight was no big whoop and I shouldn't have allowed myself to be goaded into using the ear pinch. as a couple of handlers who use other methods of traininng, dogs were not outing very well either.


Gotcha . When I saw the ear pinch all I could think about were the strong statements you made in this discussion . I believe you came into it on the 4th page , post #37 .

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...ining-only-sorry-mr-koehler-16851/index4.html


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I have to say...that is the nicest AB I have seen in a very long time!

The whole slow and sticky out thing ?

well it gave me a good laugh and I will be using that comment on the trainingfield in future when my dog blatantly refuses to OUT when he is told to. Be honest here, the dog doesnt out regardless in this vid and saying other dogs didnt out doesnt negate the fact that not outing is not outing no matter the excuse used. what other dogs do or dont do has nothing to do with ones own dog and its performance!
saying hes not been worked for a month? again an excuse in my eyes...he should out when you tell him, be it one day after being worked or one year...and OUT is an OUT! He is a nice dog tho....I will grant you that  

how long has he been worked ?


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Lynda Myers said:


> Jim, I'm actually that someone and Terrasita is correct Rook's outs are good at trials. But to take him out dry (unworked for close to a month) like at the decoy camp and his outs are slow and sticky.


 Sounds like a dog who hasnt been taught he MUST out when asked, and a dog who knows no consequenses for doing what he wants. :roll:


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Ok here's a video that kinda shows how Rook would rather play with me over the decoy. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qKlY72cFU4


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Lynda Myers said:


> Ok here's a video that kinda shows how Rook would rather play with me over the decoy.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qKlY72cFU4


So hes not taking the whole decoy thing too serious then


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> I have to say...that is the nicest AB I have seen in a very long time!
> 
> The whole slow and sticky out thing ?
> 
> ...


Thank you Alice for your very kind words about Rook's looks. I agree with what you have said about the out to an extent. Don't know if you read Terrasita's post above or not but that should explain some of it. None of my other dogs have an issue with the out...all out clean and quick.

As to how long he's been worked...that's a hard question to answer because his training has never been consistent. Month here or couple months there with many idle months in between. His suit work training started about a year ago with Grayson Geyer. Who because of personal reasons had to return home last August. I am currently looking for someone to train with as the person we were training with has started working Rook incorrectly and it's cause a targeting (bicep area ideal) issue. Due to wrong presentation and have video to prove it.


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> So hes not taking the whole decoy thing too serious then


No not really it's a game to him Christopher. Last January went to Springfield, IL to train with a guy and had the helper show me what's in Rook. Rook has never been worked this way. Good, bad or ugly here's the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9wLlBSzOII


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Lynda Myers said:


> No not really it's a game to him Christopher. Last January went to Springfield, IL to train with a guy and had the helper show me what's in Rook. Rook has never been worked this way. Good, bad or ugly here's the video.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9wLlBSzOII


 So long your having fun with him, thats all that matters.


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## Jamie Geyer (Apr 25, 2010)

After having seen Rook, and watched him work for 2 days straight...all I can say is "That is Rook all the way with those streamers!" :wink:


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Lynda Myers said:


> Ok here's a video that kinda shows how Rook would rather play with me over the decoy.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qKlY72cFU4


Curious now lol... have you ever thought that would fix itself if you didnt allow the play as you do in this video esp with the decoy in front of you? Or is this something you want so you can use it in your motivational outing? Havent seen the rest of the vids yet... but so far he sure looks like a happy dog :-D


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

tracey delin said:


> Curious now lol... have you ever thought that would fix itself if you didnt allow the play as you do in this video esp with the decoy in front of you? Or is this something you want so you can use it in your motivational outing? Havent seen the rest of the vids yet... but so far he sure looks like a happy dog :-D


Normally I have a tug/toy /food or will give a rebite as a reward for outing( which was the case in this video). If you will notice that at the beginning of the video decoy was putting on the suit jacket. As we were just getting started.Our sessions normally don't start with Rook playing. Rook is very powerful and it takes alot for me to lock up a tug/toy etc. with him on it.
Our sessions actually most often start with focus heeling and other ob exercises with decoy on field. 
Rook is a big goofy happy dog bar none. Why do you think Bob Scott (says he's his favorite AB) and others(who personally know him) like him so much? It's not because his the greatest, flashest working dog.LOL No it's because Rook is a clown and sees everything as a game, loves people/children, isn't dog aggressive, has a sound stable mind and very clear headed.

That goofy and happy attitude has hurt him though because trainers and decoys see it and make snp decisions about him. Like mistakenly think his grip is weak!LOLOLOLOL Oh boy is it an eyeopener when they work him though. Because he has a punishing grip and that's with no teeth!!!hehehe


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Cute bulldog, I just don’t like the training that much..the decoy isn’t a threat the dog isn’t showing any aggression towards the guy and you seem ok with that. For me that wouldn’t be ok..but whatever works for you..

If I tell my dogs to play with me anytime, any place, they should or if I tell them to bite the man they should, and it should be convincingly when they do. We never have our helper be a friend to the dog, it is not a game with the helper, I want the dog to know that he better bite and pull hard as the helper may hurt him if he doesn’t. But the dog has to listen, and trust in me to tell them when to start and stop biting. If the dog chooses not to listen there are consequences for that.

You look like you have a good dog, just need to amp up the training IMO. Less playing around with the guy. But that is just an opinion and what is most important is you enjoy what you are doing and happy with your results.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

One of my problems with all of this is that it is a GAME and the dog knows it. Why take that ability to distinguish out of the dog. Everyone wants the show of agression for something that isn't a threat but an orchestration. This dog has prey and object drive out the whazoo. He is not OCD. He can lay onthe field with 4 or 5 decoys and not give it the time of day. If Lynda sends him, he's ready to rock and roll and he's in it for the duration with all he has. You can absolutely turn it on and turn it off. Where is life is the bad buy in a suit or has a sleeve to bite and streamers??? All this out discussion for this dog is a waste. His earlier training and conditioning was to NOT out. So he has some baggage and what you put there can be difficult to turn around for this dog. He's very specific. However in a session she was able to turn it around. He's a happy, confident, very biddable dog and often pretty oblivious to pressure except Lynda's in certain contexts. This isn't an issue of making him do something, its training it for the context that its used and her not to get into the keep it or lose it fight with him. Trust me, its EASILY fixed. The blooper vids don't nearly show this dog. He has no teeth and any helper that has caught him will testify to that death grip and pain. He's been worked/tested by the likes of Lucillano, Keith O'Sullivan to name a couple. For sure the bite and with the pressure is there. Lynda has the big issue with the OUT, Rook doesn't. The history is the reason for it but again, sooooo easily fixed. The problem is decoys wanting to play training director and won't go along fully with the marker training to to work on it. Its a PITA to have to discuss every time what you need from the helper to make this reliable and concrete for the dog. The decoy wants to be in control when this is an issue between the handler and the dog [my opinion]. Then they want to go into the whole correction thing and collars. You end up getting little to nothing done or to avoid the arguments, just not dealing with this. This is a super clear dog that generally lives to do what his handler wants as long as he is clear and KNOWS what that is. He has not been trained through all the different out scenarios so I don't see getting all hot and bothered over it until you fully put him through his training paces and quit entering him in all this crap that calls for it until you train him.

T

Okay, vent over.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> One of my problems with all of this is that it is a GAME and the dog knows it. Why take that ability to distinguish out of the dog. Everyone wants the show of agression for something that isn't a threat but an orchestration. This dog has prey and object drive out the whazoo. He is not OCD. He can lay onthe field with 4 or 5 decoys and not give it the time of day. If Lynda sends him, he's ready to rock and roll and he's in it for the duration with all he has. You can absolutely turn it on and turn it off. Where is life is the bad buy in a suit or has a sleeve to bite and streamers??? All this out discussion for this dog is a waste. His earlier training and conditioning was to NOT out. So he has some baggage and what you put there can be difficult to turn around for this dog. He's very specific. However in a session she was able to turn it around. He's a happy, confident, very biddable dog and often pretty oblivious to pressure except Lynda's in certain contexts. This isn't an issue of making him do something, its training it for the context that its used and her not to get into the keep it or lose it fight with him. Trust me, its EASILY fixed. The blooper vids don't nearly show this dog. He has no teeth and any helper that has caught him will testify to that death grip and pain. He's been worked/tested by the likes of Lucillano, Keith O'Sullivan to name a couple. For sure the bite and with the pressure is there. Lynda has the big issue with the OUT, Rook doesn't. The history is the reason for it but again, sooooo easily fixed. The problem is decoys wanting to play training director and won't go along fully with the marker training to to work on it. Its a PITA to have to discuss every time what you need from the helper to make this reliable and concrete for the dog. The decoy wants to be in control when this is an issue between the handler and the dog [my opinion]. Then they want to go into the whole correction thing and collars. You end up getting little to nothing done or to avoid the arguments, just not dealing with this. This is a super clear dog that generally lives to do what his handler wants as long as he is clear and KNOWS what that is. He has not been trained through all the different out scenarios so I don't see getting all hot and bothered over it until you fully put him through his training paces and quit entering him in all this crap that calls for it until you train him.
> 
> T
> 
> Okay, vent over.


why dont you say what you really think :lol:

the only one getting hot and bothered is you on this topic...vid posted, comments made and nothing special happened...simple fact: dont want comments then dont post vids or topics....

Im sure he is a great dog, I like his looks and his build, nicest AB I have seen in ages to be honest...is it a workingdog or serious dog ? From what I can tell nope he is very far from it...hes a big lug of happy go lucky AB and thats about it...I have nothing against the dog or against lynda...I was just stating what I saw and how I felt about the excuses made for the not outing, should I go all soft and cushy in my observation ? If I post a vid and people comment then Its something I will expect...good or bad comments alike...everyone has a view or opinion and I will not like them all, shouldnt have posted then should I because I knew in advance the comments would come...

Rook is a nice looking dog with a lot of happy in him, not a serious bone in his body by the looks of him but he is enjoying himself and thats the main thing. Lynda enjoys her training be it serious or less serious but she is having a good time with her dog...at the end of the day she shouldnt care less what others think and im pretty sure she doesnt...some people train seriously and some for fun and to have something to do with their dog..to each their own. from my view things should change in order to get a more workable dog but thats my view, she dont have to share it or agree with it...she also doesnt need you to jump up in her defence....but thats a whole different matter


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> One of my problems with all of this is that it is a GAME and the dog knows it. Why take that ability to distinguish out of the dog. Everyone wants the show of agression for something that isn't a threat but an orchestration. This dog has prey and object drive out the whazoo. He is not OCD. He can lay onthe field with 4 or 5 decoys and not give it the time of day. If Lynda sends him, he's ready to rock and roll and he's in it for the duration with all he has. You can absolutely turn it on and turn it off. Where is life is the bad buy in a suit or has a sleeve to bite and streamers??? All this out discussion for this dog is a waste. His earlier training and conditioning was to NOT out. So he has some baggage and what you put there can be difficult to turn around for this dog. He's very specific. However in a session she was able to turn it around. He's a happy, confident, very biddable dog and often pretty oblivious to pressure except Lynda's in certain contexts. This isn't an issue of making him do something, its training it for the context that its used and her not to get into the keep it or lose it fight with him. Trust me, its EASILY fixed. The blooper vids don't nearly show this dog. He has no teeth and any helper that has caught him will testify to that death grip and pain. He's been worked/tested by the likes of Lucillano, Keith O'Sullivan to name a couple. For sure the bite and with the pressure is there. Lynda has the big issue with the OUT, Rook doesn't. The history is the reason for it but again, sooooo easily fixed. The problem is decoys wanting to play training director and won't go along fully with the marker training to to work on it. Its a PITA to have to discuss every time what you need from the helper to make this reliable and concrete for the dog. The decoy wants to be in control when this is an issue between the handler and the dog [my opinion]. Then they want to go into the whole correction thing and collars. You end up getting little to nothing done or to avoid the arguments, just not dealing with this. This is a super clear dog that generally lives to do what his handler wants as long as he is clear and KNOWS what that is. He has not been trained through all the different out scenarios so I don't see getting all hot and bothered over it until you fully put him through his training paces and quit entering him in all this crap that calls for it until you train him.
> 
> T
> 
> Okay, vent over.


Not certain if you are including me in your vent but just to make it clear my issue isn't with the out .


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> Not certain if you are including me in your vent but just to make it clear my issue isn't with the out .


NO, sorry, probably the only two people who know what Im venting about is me and Lynda. Well, make that a third, Bob. Jim, I know exactly where you are coming from and understand completely.

Terrasita


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Rook is the coolest AB on the planet and I fell in love with him the first time I saw him some years ago...and I'm not a bully person.
Fantastic nerve, solid as a rock temperment, loves the world and as good looking a AB as you'll find.
As to defence, I think he enjoys the game way to much to worry about that.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Alice, not defending Lynda. We both laughed at that one. I think we need anew rule, say an ear pinch for every time she puts Rook in a situation he's not trained for and three pinches if she post a video of it. then there is the hypocrisy pinch Jim would throw in when she has those moments of weakness.


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Jamie Geyer said:


> After having seen Rook, and watched him work for 2 days straight...all I can say is "That is Rook all the way with those streamers!" :wink:


OMG Yes!!!


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Hehehehe you guys...I knew most would respond the way they did and it didn't bother me in the slightest. I just posted videos of my boy being himself for people to enjoy. Yes he is goofy and except for those rare moments is not serious at all as everything is fun and games. That's why his nickname is Goof Troop, so named by my sister. LOL
Life is way too short to be walking around all tight and serious. Everything has a time and a place. But remember life was meant to be enjoyed, and laughed at, not stressed over.
However with that said what most don't know is I'm very competitive and on trial day we put all foolishness away until it's over. Well that is if you don't count singing...huh Bob!#-o:lol::lol::lol::lol: 


Thanks for watching the videos and your comments!
Wait til you see Rook chasing the laser light cat toy or a light reflecting off a dvd on to the ceiling. lololol


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

enjoy yourself and your dog lady, faak the haters


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Lynda Myers said:


> Hehehehe you guys...I knew most would respond the way they did and it didn't bother me in the slightest. I just posted videos of my boy being himself for people to enjoy. Yes he is goofy and except for those rare moments is not serious at all as everything is fun and games. That's why his nickname is Goof Troop, so named by my sister. LOL
> Life is way too short to be walking around all tight and serious. Everything has a time and a place. But remember life was meant to be enjoyed, and laughed at, not stressed over.
> However with that said what most don't know is I'm very competitive and on trial day we put all foolishness away until it's over. Well that is if you don't count singing...huh Bob!#-o:lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> ...



Oh Lynda , you sure got us good . You know us so well . 

Actually, I might have bought that early on but with all the typing and excuse making prior to this I don't buy it one bit . 

Seriously though good luck on trial day .


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Lynda Myers said:


> Hehehehe you guys...I knew most would respond the way they did and it didn't bother me in the slightest. I just posted videos of my boy being himself for people to enjoy. Yes he is goofy and except for those rare moments is not serious at all as everything is fun and games. That's why his nickname is Goof Troop, so named by my sister. LOL
> Life is way too short to be walking around all tight and serious. Everything has a time and a place. But remember life was meant to be enjoyed, and laughed at, not stressed over.
> However with that said what most don't know is I'm very competitive and on trial day we put all foolishness away until it's over. Well that is if you don't count singing...huh Bob!#-o:lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> ...


I envy your patience. Very funny video anyway.


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

I completely get the goofiness of the breed, my 2 Bulldogs are definite goofballs, I laugh every time I work them, hard not to. My APBTs were the same way.
But during training I train them like my GSDs and Malinois, no real differences, a good dog is a good dog. I hear it all the time at training, how my bulldogs work like Shepherds, and I am sure part of it is because we train them in the same manner.

I realize that a lot of bull breed owners don’t feel comfortable working a dog with some defence, I see the same thing with some Malinois trainers, and maybe you don’t have access to a helper/decoy who is willing or able to do it anyways, but it doesn’t change the dog from what he is off the field, they will still be loveable dogs, you will just bring a higher level of intensity into your protection work. If you think he is a strong dog now, with a change in your training it could even get better…


Regardless, I applaud you for working the breed. So few of them ever make it to a trial. All the best to you.


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> I envy your patience. Very funny video anyway.


 Thanks yes he is quite comical...
Ya know it doesn't really take much patience though. Rook will do whatever I train him for and he learns fairly quick provided I understand the exercise and how to go about training it. Here is where I rely a lot on Terrasita, as she's very good at breaking a behavior/exercise down into small steps. We are talking about dog who in five clicks of a clicker went into a bedroom and retrieved a cardboard box to me in the living room. In actual time it took about 3-4 minutes.

The problem though is whatever I put there (train for) is there for life! Hence the issue with the out. 
When Cory worked him with the streamers later that night at the decoy camp. He fixed it in three consecutive catches if that makes sense and because Cory asked that I not film him I didn't.
What we've ever needed was a decoy committed - willing to train on a regular basis, honest, be open and able to train uh... skin a cat more then one way and probably most important have the ability to correctly read a dog. 

Obedience wise Rook knows most of the exercises for the Sch 1 routine and all of them for the PSA1. I hope to have earned our PDC and PSA 1 spring/summer.
All Rook needs for the PDC is to see the hidden sleeve actually hidden. Which was something Joby was/is going to help me with while he's here in MO.


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