# Does PPD stop when perp stops?



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

A while back I had a discussion with a local supposed PPD trainer. He said his philosophy, for legal reasons, is that a PPD should STOP biting when the perp stops. 

I digress. If a crackhead busts my door down and knocks me out cold I don't want my dog to stop just because the crackhead stops and stands still while he contemplates his next move. I'd rather take my chances with the judge/jury than the crackhead. 

What do you think?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I've been to your neighborhood, there ain't no crackheads gonna bust down your door 

I hate automatic outs, even in sport.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I've been to your neighborhood, there ain't no crackheads gonna bust down your door
> 
> I hate automatic outs, even in sport.


i'd be much more inclined to have an automatic out if i didn't have the city's deep pockets to back me...


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I'd have an out on command, not automatic out.


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

I agree... Let the dog chew him up until you come to. Then call out for Domino's 5,5,5 Deal... Then out your dog. Screw the auto out.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The local LEO that I talk with says I should let my dog "hold" the perp till they get there. Saves them from fighting so much to get the cuffs on.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Ours are trained that way as well. Bite when I tell them, quit when I tell them. I will admit though, the harder the fight sometimes the more difficult the out. 

DFrost


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Now what's wrong with that. I've always heard that if you're going to be dumb you better be tough.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

I've always thought that if I give my dog a command to bite he should, no matter what the suspect does. And he should keep biting until I give him a command to stop, no matter what the suspect does. The reason he's been sent to bite someone is to control him and if he stops biting him, he's no longer doing that. 

I’m not sure if it was here that I mentioned this but last time I heard, in the UK it's required that the police dogs automatically go into a hold and bark if the suspect puts his hands up (before the bite). If he stops fighting the dog must release the bite and go into the hold and bark. If this info is out of date, feel free to correct me please.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Well, Im glad that we are not in the UK. I for one do NOT want my dog to go into a B/H just because the suspect stops fighting, thats just asking for trouble. Second, the dogs I have seen will NOT do an automatic B/H if the suspect raises his arms, and why in the hell would they. Do they really know if the suspect is giving up or getting a weapon ready to fire or whatever. Sorry but I don't think the dog can tell the difference so if the dog is sent he damn better well bite him. And if a dog does decide to do a B/H and not bite on his own, then thats not the dog for me cause thats the dog that'll get someone hurt if not killed not to mention himself. If you find a dog that will respond by going into a B/H on his own from the cueing of the raised arms, well then that dog has been beating down over and over and over on this exercise. This is not something that should up to the dog to decide but the handler. Thats why we do call offs, we decide not the dog. Not anything bad towards you Lou, I know that you referred to the people in the UK doing this, not you. I for one do not know if they do this or not but I think its a bad idea.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

jay lyda said:


> I for one do NOT want my dog to go into a B/H just because the suspect stops fighting, thats just asking for trouble.


Please don't misunderstand Jay, I wasn't suggesting it, I was just mentioning it to show how misguided some folks are. They're so caught up in being politically correct, the Home Office (which controls most of the police in the UK) that they've put the officers at risk. 



jay lyda said:


> Second, the dogs I have seen will NOT do an automatic B/H if the suspect raises his arms, and why in the hell would they. Do they really know if the suspect is giving up or getting a weapon ready to fire or whatever. Sorry but I don't think the dog can tell the difference so if the dog is sent he damn better well bite him.


Again I agree. If you get down to the dog's eye level you discover that a hands up "surrender position" looks an awful lot like a two handed isosceles firing stance with a gun. I've had this conversation with UK officers and they're response is nearly always the same, "We don't have as many guns as you do 'over there.' " Overlooking the fact that the next guy they stop might be the guy who DOES have one. 



jay lyda said:


> Thats why we do call offs, we decide not the dog.


Good point. I agree, it's a very bad idea.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Oh yeah, I knew that this wasn't something that you agreed with Lou. I was just commenting on my beliefs on this. And sometimes being politically correct doesn't mean that its RIGHT. Thats whats wrong with a lot of the stuff going on today. SOME people are too worried about how they look in the eyes of the general public and the other polititions. Sorry, but thats not me, and thats why I wouldn't be good in politics, Im too ](*,) .


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## Simon Mellick (Oct 31, 2006)

It's important to me that a PPD have no issues with a passive bite. Not sure how you'd accomplish that when the dog also thought he had to stop biting when the decoy goes passive.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

I agree with the passive bites. This can easily turn into another pet peave of mine, the automatic out. Just because the perp/decoy goes passive DOES NOT mean that the dog outs on his own. It shouldn't matter what is going on, the dog stays on the bite until a command is given or he is pulled off.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I have taught my son well. Makes me proud.......


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