# Heat cycle & kennel questions



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Having never owned an intact female before, all this is completely new to me, so I'm hoping someone who has more experience can answer this question.

Is it normal for a puppy to have bloody discharge for two weeks? 

Everything I've read, including the online course I took on canine reproduction, says that the first week is when the bloody discharge occurs, followed by a week of less bloody discharge, with more of a light pink tinge, and then the 3rd week there is no discharge. Jessie's had fairly heavy bloody discharge now for nearly 2 weeks. This IS her first season, so I was thinking that might have something to do with it, but I don't have any experience with it, so... I still have to change her pads at least every hour, and I'm using actual maxi pads, not pantyliners or thin pads. 


She has also had loose stools the whole time, and uncontrollable diarrhea for several days about a week ago. The good news is that the butt grenades only lasted for a couple of days, during which time she was fasted for 2 days and had 2.5 days of white rice and boiled chicken in lieu of dog food, but she has still had loose stools the whole time, even with pumpkin - it just turns the poo orange, and doesn't help with the 'texture' at all. One person told me that they had a dog that was HORRIBLE for this, so maybe that's just something I will get to look forward to every time Jessie comes into season as well? Gosh I hope not. 





Adam and I were discussing building a kennel that we could put her in during the day if she has the same problems she had this go 'round in the future (she had to sit in her crate all day with the mess, and she is NOT a dog that likes to be anywhere NEAR it - she actually pushed it over into the little groove that goes all the way around the bottom of the crate, and sat against the back, in the far corner as far away from it as she could get. Poor girl. 

We're planning on building it ourselves, but we're thinking about something like this:

http://www.caninekennels.com/~sa_webapp/run.asp?page=8253#

The biggest concerns I have are the flooring and what kind of wire to use. I don't really want to have to pour a concrete slab because it's expensive, unmovable, and we can't afford to put any kind of heating element in it to keep it from freezing in the winter. I guess we could if we had to, but I'd rather not. I'm just not too keen on dogs sitting on concrete floors for long periods of time - just a personal preference. I thought about maybe burying welded wire, but I'm just not sure. I don't know what else would be digproof, fairly inexpensive, and something that's going to last at least 5 years. Would we be safe just taking the actual walls down 2 feet into the ground, or would it be just as cost-effective to do some kind of flooring? 

The floor in the bedding area will probably not be wood, but I'm not sure what it will be yet either; something that's easy to clean and won't rot. The walls will probably be block, which we'll stucco over to match the house. The roof will be metal. I also haven't decided if I want the kennels to be side by side with the bedding areas on either end, or if I want the bedding areas in the middle with the kennels on either end. If we do it like what is pictured, we'll have to put some kind of separator to prevent breeding through the fence if there is another dog on the other side. That brings me to the rest of the kennel. Either we'll have to do a double entrance in case a stray happens to get into the yard, again, to prevent breeding through the wire, or we'll have to use something with openings that are small, I guess. 

I have no idea. :lol:


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

As far as a cheaper alternative and more movable solution to poured cement I used two rows on brick pavers that are 12x12 so that The dogs can not dig out with a house built off the back. My other kennels are poured concrete with houses built off the back with an opening in the chanlink attaching the house to the kennel so that the dogs can not chew the house. I will try and post pics to explain better.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

I would say that every female is different in how they "handle" their heat cycles - some bleed very little and it's hard to even see enough blood to know they are in heat at all - others bleed a lot. Some bleed for a week (they bleed for more than a week, but some just bleed so little that it's hard to notice) and some bleed for the entire 3-4 weeks they are in season. I'd guess that you are noticing the blood more because you have panties on her, she can't clean herself and you're seeing the whole amount which is more than most would see if they let the dog take care of themselves (hard to do though if the dog is a house dog and you have white carpets or don't want to clean up after her) Kenneling her when she's in heat is obviously an option.
Because of the diarrhea and what might be more blood than normal - (it might be a normal amount though) - I would check her temperature, make sure her appetite and behavior is normal otherwise - Pyometra (uterine infection) is a possibility with any intact female - and this can be deadly. Just something to be aware of.

molly


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm tired, so only skimmed this thread so sorry if this has been mentioned. But be careful with housing a bitch in heat in an outside run. All the males in the neighborhood are gonna be at your door n it is possible to breed thru a kennel run! Most people I know either have the dogs in the house with some type of way to keep the mess to a minimum, or they put the dog on the patio in a box where nobody can get to them.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Molly, her behavior and appetite haven't changed, and she hasn't had the diarrhea since last week - that was only for 2 or 3 days. She's had formed stools for the past several days, though they are a little softer than normal. I told my TD about it today, and he said it all could be just because it's her first heat, or she might have gotten a virus or something that caused the explosive diarrhea, but she looks and acts fine, so he probably wouldn't worry about it. 

She keeps herself very clean while she's in her crate. I have yet to see any blood in there, but when she's loose in the house, she has to wear the diaper because I have carpet and she does drip a good bit without it. There's no abnormal smell, or nasty looking discharge, or anything like that. 



Mike, yes, I'm aware that kennel runs can be bred through, and I touched on how we might avoid that happening. The only reason I considered it is if she is going to have explosive diarrhea every time she comes in heat; I don't want her to have to sit in it in her crate all day - not to mention it's not that fun to come home to a house that smells like shit.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Kristen I'm glad your female is feeling better. I'm guessing that you have no need for the outside kennel now but......In reference to an outside kennel: My kennels have those 12 x 12 concrete pavers. I did not want to commit to poured concrete, as I wanted the option to move the kennels once the trees I planted in another section of the yard grew. They work really well as long as you lay down a weed barrier before placing them. I also put a top (chain link) on one of the kennels, because I knew if my male can climb a fence others could as well. I figured she was safe (can't climb over or under).....well that's what I get for thinkin because (thank goodness I was home when..... )my male showed me that there are more ways then that to get into the kennel - he made a pretty descent size whole in one of the panels. Had to get a metal crate for him as well because he ate thru the plastic one to get to her even though she was in another room. Never can trust them males (of any species :wink: ).


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I like the concrete pavers for a surface also - cheap, easy to relocate and
can be hosed down and sanitized. I am not a big fan of putting males next to females in season for all the reasons Lacey stated and also females can be just as creative in the trying to "co-mingle"(mine are absolute tarts!) I have separate yards with fencing and electric fencing between them and I still crate the females inside when I have to go off the property. If you don't beleive the extreme lengths that females will go to to get themselves bred - ask me how I got the big,dumb Siberian/GSD X  ......

Also just recently my newest Alaskan went into season a week after I got her and I put her into a real heavy duty chain link kennel with roof and cement floor and she beavered a big, dog sized escape hole in the gate in about 5 minutes -luckily I was there in the yard with doing chores so no harm done and into a crate she went!

re the bowel problems for your female in season you might want to try a little Naturclay to her diet as it seems to help some dogs.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Never heard of Naturclay. If she has the same problem next time I may look into that, because everyone was miserable for the few days (and nights) she was having the problem. Stools are back to normal for now, so that's a relief. 



> I am not a big fan of putting males next to females in season for all the reasons Lacey stated and also females can be just as creative in the trying to "co-mingle"


I didn't mean that I'd be kenneling her next to a male when I said I wanted to make sure to use wire that was not breedable through - I was referring to the strays getting into the yard. Lord knows there are enough of them around here. :roll: Once we are able to finish the fence around the yard, I've been debating on running some hot wire to help deter them from 

In reference to the concrete pavers, have you ever had any problems with the dogs' toenails getting stuck between them or anything? And can the dogs not just pull them up by 'grabbing' ahold of the sides and lifting them up? Using pavers did cross my mind, but those were two concerns I had with them. And there again, I don't really like concrete floors in a kennel because it's so cold in the winter, and it's hard and abrasive. :| I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm really not. I'm just trying to avoid using concrete if I can. If I have to, then I have to, but surely there's another way. :?: 

I guess, though, once a dirt floor is packed down enough, it becomes just as hard as concrete, doesn't it? 

As already mentioned, the roof will be metal (or that corrugated plastic stuff).


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

the problem with concrete pavers is, they are pretty roughed-out - if your dog is quiet in the kennel - no problem - but if she's active and doing any sort of turning/spinning behavior (excited in a kennel) then she will wear her pads down to blood in no time. I have a concrete pad that was here when I moved in - I just put fencing around it - perfect, I thought - but I can't use it for any but the quietest dogs - the active ones wear their pads down on it. It's "normal" concrete - you wouldn't look at it and say it's rough - but it is. My kennel concrete is smoothed, and no problem with feet/pads on that. Hard/packed dirt will not wear pads down, either.

molly


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Would using outdoor non slip ceramic tile be a good option if you wanted to spend a little more money on building the run?


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

The dirt though turns into mud in wet weather 

I know concrete isn't your first choice, but it's the easiest to get clean. I've used pea gravel on my outdoor runs...hate it. We put down wire first in the bottom of the runs, then aglime, then the pea gravel. The inside of the runs then have boards all along the bottom of the fencing to hold the aglime & gravel all in, then the runs are bolted to the back of the building. The runs are in a 3 sided building covered with a roof. The building is open in the front then to the south. Nice building for the outdoor runs because the runs are completely protected. The dogs who are diggers still dig, then pulled up the wire :roll: in some spots. The pea gravel still flys around if the dogs get going-so have to replace rock...it can get dusty in the summer, which I hate. I plan on getting rid of that and putting concrete down. I think it's the cleanest and has the lowest maintenance. I've never had a problem with the pads of thier feet either. The dogs also have a house so they can lie in that too if they want off the concrete.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Oh no, I'd never do gravel. When I got Jak, he was TERRIBLE about wanting to eat rocks because they used pea gravel in their outdoor runs at his breeder's. I also don't want it getting slung all out in the yard to have to try and pick up before we mow and stuff, either. Nope, definitely no gravel. :wink:

Since putting the tarp roof on Jak's kennel, and covering the ground with cedar shavings, I haven't had a mud problem when it rains or whatever. But you're right; before the roof and cedar shavings, it was awful. I also built him a 'platform' out of two pallets and a sheet of plywood on top, to go across the front, because he bounces from one side to the other, and was wearing the ground down below the bottom of the kennel (and slinging mud everywhere). That's helped immensely, too. 

It's looking like concrete, in some form or fashion, is going to be the best thing to use, though, even though I'd really rather not. :?


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