# Plane rides & Puppies



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

This is my first puppy Ive had flown in. The night after he got home he bloated out huge. Looked like he gained 5lbs. Went to the vet... no bloat couldnt find anything wrong. He thought it could be worms.
That didnt makes sense for worms to come on that strong over night.
The next day threw up most of his food he had ate the previous night a few hours after the vet. (To be noted the vet still gave him shots and a dewormer even though I brought him in for the extended abdo.)
I didnt feed him anymore last night after the vomit
He was tender to the touch... possibly from the shots and such and didnt want to be picked up.

This A.M. he was no longer tender to the touch, and is no longer bloated. Though I gave him some white rice and chicken he threw it up an hour later.


Was should I expect from a puppy who was on a 12 hour flight then in his crate another 4-5 hours b4 I got him... I dont want to go back to the vet and have them take xrays... and all kinds of labs bc they have no idea whats going on. 

Thxs


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

FYI
His TPR is normal, also has tons of energy.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

That wasn't caused by the plane ride. I have been shipped 4 dogs in the last 2 years or so and this never happened. Something is wrong with him, hopefully it isn't anything majore. Call the breeder and ask when he was last wormed and with what, shots when and what kind?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I've shipped from europe and from across the states, never had a problem such as what you are describing. Every pup has come out of it's crate fully loaded for bear and ready to rock. Call the breeder.


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> That wasn't caused by the plane ride. I have been shipped 4 dogs in the last 2 years or so and this never happened. Something is wrong with him, hopefully it isn't anything majore. Call the breeder and ask when he was last wormed and with what, shots when and what kind?


Good to know.
"I given him in the 3.and 5. week - antiworms tablet and in the 6. week vaccination. Is good,if you give him antivorms tablet / he was in the last time 
together with others puppies........and during two weeks the 2.th vaccination"

Thats the info he sent me. I do have papers... but they are not in english. But it looks like from the stickers he recieved Droncet for the dewormer.


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

I'm going to take him to work today and possibly have one of the specialty vets take a quick peek at him while he's there. 
I'll let you know if we find anything out. Intill then he's going to be on pedialight and when there is not vomiting then the cottage cheese or trying the white rice and chicken again... possibly a can or two of Hills I/D


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Droncet is for tapeworms, used to use it for sleddogs.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> The next day threw up most of his food he had ate the previous night a few hours after the vet. (To be noted the vet still gave him shots and a dewormer even though I brought him in for the extended abdo.)


Man, they really push those shots. I've been told several times to start the vacc all over again with pups when they come from overseas, like they don't use exactly the same product over there.

I think if they arrive sickly, they probably left that way.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Honestly, I would get x-rays and a workup, because bloating up and throwing up like this is NOT normal, and GI issues can be very serious and go very wrong very quickly. I'm extra paranoid from once losing a puppy to intususseption (it progressed very quickly and e-vet misdiagnosed symptoms as parvo, so it was not treated in time  ) Puppies are pretty delicate, so I would be extremely worried if he continues to vomit and can't keep any food down.

What did you feed him, how much did he drink, and is he only throwing up after eating or after drinking only fluids, too? Are you feeding the same thing the breeder fed, or did you change food?

I would NOT have had him vaccinated and dewormed immediately on top of the shock of travel. A baby puppy does NOT need to have extra chemicals injected in him when his immune system is already lowered from stress. If the vet suspected worms, he could do a fecal and look, instead of shotgun treating the pup "just in case".

I would probably stick with soupy overcooked rice and chicken, rather than the Hills stuff. limited ingredients is better. Also watch portions, a little bit of food more often might be easier on him than a big meal all at once.

I would also let the breeder know what is happening, immediately, if you haven't already.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

I'd be concerned. Sounds like some kind of digestive system blockage or ate something or a bug that is irritating his bowels. Just a guess but it's definitely a good idea to get that specialty vet looking at him asap.


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

I agree, I've shipped puppies all over the country and never have I had anything like that...Pups travel super, come out of the crate happy and ready to go. Pups can have the bowel actually turn in on itself...intususception(sp??). I'd get him worked up seriously with x-rays too. Did he have anything in his crate while shipping he could have ingested, such as bedding, paper, cardboard?


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

I wanted to let everyone know he is now holding down food. He gets 1/5 th a cup ever few hours... so far so good.

I told the doc I didnt want to do the shots right now bc of everything you guys have said but they decided to do them on him while he was in the back anyways... not much I can say after the fact.

Thanks for everyones input. I was very worried for the first 2 days I had him. I can finally breath easy knowing he is holding down food. \\/ \\/ \\/


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

\\/ That's great news! Let us know if you figure out the cause of the problem. Congratulations on the new puppy.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> I wanted to let everyone know he is now holding down food. He gets 1/5 th a cup ever few hours... so far so good.


That's good news. Has the tenderness gone away also?



> I told the doc I didnt want to do the shots right now bc of everything you guys have said but they decided to do them on him while he was in the back anyways... not much I can say after the fact.


Actually there is a lot you can do, and should. I'd have raised holy hell if I told the vet I did not want them to do something, and they went ahead and did it while I wasn't there. I would refuse to pay for the shorts or wormer, since I specifically told them not to give them. I'd also be looking for a new vet, one who respects my wishes when it comes to the care of my dogs. And depending on how ticked off I was, I'd probably post about this on the web, so people would know with this vet they need to keep a close eye on their pets, so they don't recieve treatment the owner didn't want.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yeah, I'm with Kadi. Any veterinarian that specifically went against my wishes would have hell to pay, and I sure as hell would NEVER trust them with my dog again. Who knows - the next time they might "accidentally" neuter the dog because after all, they seem to think it's OK to do as they please regardless of what you want.


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> That's good news. Has the tenderness gone away also?[\quote]
> 
> Yes no longer tender. He wasnt sender after the first day when the swelling of the abdo. went down.
> I meant there wasnt much I could do now that I am home after the fact. I could call and raise hell and yell but I already did that so Im not inclined on calling them and doing it again.
> Thanks again guys.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Incidents like that are why I don't leave my dog's side at the vets.

If the vet has an issue with that, I take my business elsewhere.


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Incidents like that are why I don't leave my dog's side at the vets.
> 
> If the vet has an issue with that, I take my business elsewhere.


Thanks for the advice never thought they would have gone ahead and done it or I wouldnt have gone there. I am going to change vets. Too bad mine (that i work at) doesnt care vax's or id go to my hospital for them...


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm accustomed to butting heads with vets, and I always assume they will do something to hurt my dog.
I don't need things happening to my dog that I'm not aware of. The vet might mean well, but that doesn't mean they won't do things I don't want done to my pup.

When you feed raw and don't vaccinate, you don't win too many friends in the vet community.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

How about posting the name of the vet or better yet got there email address a couple of choice emails may make them think twice about pulling something like that again :twisted:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

uh Jaimelee.......WE NEED PICTURES!!!!!!! :lol: I think I speak for many when I say we all want to see some pics of your new pup!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> I'm accustomed to butting heads with vets, and I always assume they will do something to hurt my dog.
> I don't need things happening to my dog that I'm not aware of. The vet might mean well, but that doesn't mean they won't do things I don't want done to my pup.
> 
> When you feed raw and don't vaccinate, you don't win too many friends in the vet community.


Jamielee, sorry in advance if this hijacks your thread...

They'll _always_ do something to hurt your dog? Oh, come on. :roll: I'm sorry, but I can't stand this kind of attitude. We're not perfect, and neither are lawyers, doctors, nurses, etc. And yes, I know there are crooked vets who price gouge, just like lawyers and doctors. But I'm not getting well over 100K in debt and doing 11 years of post secondary education to intentionally or otherwise harm your animal. 

I'm a minimal vaccinator myself and a part time raw feeder (was full time before DH lost his job...fortunately, my job gives me free EVO). I also am happy to answer my classmate's questions about raw feeding/minimal vaccinating in case they have questions so when we get out into practice in just over 2.5 years (not that I'm counting or anything...) that they know that not all those with a holistic mindset are completely nuts. :wink: But that doesn't mean I blanket support anyone who does it because they read something on the internet. Not all vaccination protocols are bad. In fact, you have to have at least 70% of the herd vaccinated or otherwise be immune to it so those naive 30% are protected through herd immunity. Some of the raw food sites out there are just utter hogwash, let alone dangerous. 

Though let the record show I would not have been okay with vaccinating her pup, especially without permission. [-X But let's not this turn this into this vet was likely misguided, so therefore all vets don't know what they're talking about rant. Because I do have strong interests in working dogs and holistic health and I get rather fiesty when people feel the need to paint all of us with the same brush. [-( No biting the hand that feeds! :twisted:

Okay, sorry, you may have your thread back!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> .... let the record show I would not have been okay with vaccinating her pup, especially without permission. .... I do have strong interests in working dogs and holistic health and I get rather fiesty when people feel the need to paint all of us with the same brush. ....


Of course you wouldn't have vaccinated the pup. This is the kind of thread that brings out all the memories of bad experiences. All professions are subject to the big paintbrush when bad stuff happens. (Aren't you glad you aren't a lawyer?  )



Anna Kasho said:


> I would NOT have had him vaccinated and dewormed immediately on top of the shock of travel. .


Not only did this vet go against the owner's wishes -- he vaccinated a sick pup.

Owner's wishes or no -- and that would have been enough for me to find another vet immediately -- the vet vaccinated a sick pup. 

I hope that when the O.P. finds another vet, she makes it very clear to this one why her pup and her wallet went elsewhere.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren, I think there are vets that think like you but that is not the norm.

Like the majority of people no matter what they do, its gotta pay the bills and show productivity for themselves, but you have a better chance getting screwed over by a plumber than a vet.

Not that there's anything wrong with plumbers :|


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> ... Like the majority of people no matter what they do, its gotta pay the bills and show productivity for themselves, but you have a better chance getting screwed over by a plumber than a vet. ...


Uh-oh. Any plumbers on the forum? :lol:


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I think my post didn't read the way I intended.

What I intended my post to convey, was the mentality of "hope for the best, plan for the worst".

No, I do not believe, nor was it my intent to imply, that all vets are evil, or out to harm my dog.
What I do believe, is that the only way I can ensure that my dog receives the care I wish it to receive, that I know with certainty what care was administered, and that my dog is not handled poorly, is to be personally present.

I would not leave my son alone with a pediatrician, either. Do I think MDs are evil or out to harm my son? No. I just want to ensure that I am involved, aware and an active participant in the care that all members of my family receive, two or four legs.

It is very possible that this vet didn't intend to go against the owner's wishes, but rather that a miscommunication took place in the back room, and the animal was accidentally vaccinated.

If a doctor, DVM or MD can't respect my wish to be present during treatment, then in my opinion, they don't respect my wishes enough to be worthy of my trust, or my patronage.
My intent is not, nor was it, to attack vets.
I have seriously considered become a vet myself, but it would require uprooting my family and moving to attend school.

I understand how easy it is to get one's hackles up to perceived attacks, when working in certain professions that are prone to badmouthing.
As a Military Policewoman, I am the same way in many circumstances.

(Oh, and my stepdad owns his own plumbing/draincleaning business. )


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> uh Jaimelee.......WE NEED PICTURES!!!!!!! :lol: I think I speak for many when I say we all want to see some pics of your new pup!


I have my photos up in the photo section... I will take better ones on Sunday thats the only day I have someone to help me... remember I am camera handicapped


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Jamielee, sorry in advance if this hijacks your thread...
> 
> Okay, sorry, you may have your thread back!


Lol no worries 



Gerry Grimwood said:


> Maren, I think there are vets that think like you but that is not the norm.
> 
> Like the majority of people no matter what they do, its gotta pay the bills and show productivity for themselves, but you have a better chance getting screwed over by a plumber than a vet.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with plumbers :|


I wish there was vet ppl around here like Maren who knew about the raw diet and liked it... I always get the  look when I say thats what I feed my dogs... then of course comes the "then maybe thats why they are sick." :roll:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

There are vets in So Cali open to RAW feeding, you just have to do a lot of looking to find them. There are even some who are feeding and recommending RAW, such as my vet oncologist. My regular vet has an open mind about RAW. I think as it becomes more mainstream, and as veterinarians begin to see the positive results they realize the dog food companies are full of crap (literally). You just need to do a lot of footwork to find them.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> I think my post didn't read the way I intended.
> 
> What I intended my post to convey, was the mentality of "hope for the best, plan for the worst".
> 
> ...


Apology accepted but I'm still not sure how else I should have taken your comment. :-k I've noticed a lot of vet bashing on other forums (some of which I just lurk on), which doesn't help to perpetuate this odd notion that many people have that vets know nothing except how to give shots and do spay/neuters and play with puppies and kitties all day. I'm sure when you hear people making comments about how all cops (MPs or otherwise) are corrupt, racist, stupid, etc, probably has the same effect. 

The problem in both medical and veterinary medical school is that it's not like grad school. In grad school, you call most of your professors by their first names, you ask them tough questions (because they'll ask you tough questions), they want you to think outside the box and not just regurgitate information at them. It's more of a collegial atmosphere. In both med and vet med school, all the professors are very Doctor So and So. You don't really joke around with your professors. Our faculty adviser in grad school would take us out to lunch for some light drinks or invite us over to his house for parties. There's none of that in vet school. If a professor showed up at a grad student party, that wouldn't really be a problem, depending on the professor. If a vet school professor did that, most people would be uncomfortable. You have to form questions carefully because you do NOT want to be thought of as the annoying little upstart, trust me! I'm not saying grad school is loosey goosey, but there's more of a get the information in your head just so you can get through the darn process rather than a lot of questioning. 

Plus most of the vet school students as first years are 22 years old and are not taught to ask the difficult questions. I'm a little older and I went through 3 years of grad school to get my masters, so I have a different outlook than most of my classmates. I hope that puts in into perspective why vets and doctors say what they do. I don't think it's so much a vast conspiracy to wipe out your pocketbook. I think it's more of a mindset that if YOU assume we will always do something to harm your animal, THEY assume you know nothing (because if you think about the average clueless pet owner, most DON'T know a damn thing about anything related to their pets). 

When I'm in practice, particularly a practice owner, I will have a background questionaire for clients to fill out so I can gauge the owner and figure out if they are a hardcore dog person who may know what they are talking about when feeding a raw diet or a clueless furbaby client who thinks feeding nothing but chicken legs is all there is to it. I will personally be very careful about recommending a raw diet to my clients. There's a few good ways to do it right, and a LOT of ways to do it really wrong.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I don't think it's so much a vast conspiracy to wipe out your pocketbook. I think it's more of a mindset that if YOU assume we will always do something to harm your animal, THEY assume you know nothing (because if you think about the average clueless pet owner, most DON'T know a damn thing about anything related to their pets). .... When I'm in practice, particularly a practice owner, I will have a background questionaire for clients to fill out so I can gauge the owner and figure out if they are a hardcore dog person who may know what they are talking about when feeding a raw diet or a clueless furbaby client who thinks feeding nothing but chicken legs is all there is to it. I will personally be very careful about recommending a raw diet to my clients. There's a few good ways to do it right, and a LOT of ways to do it really wrong.


Good points! And if the chicken legs diet is a disaster, what about the all-hamburger-no-bones diet?! Yet we do actually see it being done by owners who know zero about canine nutrition and who are seriously endangering their dogs' health on every level, not least of which is skeletal.

But I think we'd better give the thread back and maybe start another about this very interesting topic.

Back to plane rides and the O.P.'s pup.


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