# Cephalexin and Raw



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

My Malinois (Zane) injured his nose - cut it on a Ray Allen Crate (old model defective door for the RAM Kennel- which they have since replaced on the new models, but they wanta charge me $220.00 to replace - whole other story:evil while raising heck when someone insisted on continueously walking their dog around my vehicle while at another clubs field#-o- until I finally moved my vehicle a fair distance away from the field. Anyway....the cut did not appear to be very deep and I thought I could just keep it clean and it would heal. Of course that did not happen. I noticed redness on his muzzle and under his nose with hair loss after a couple of days. Took him to the vet today and he stated that a bacterial infection has set in and was spreading. He gave me Cephalexin (500 mg - to be given 2 capsules 3x a day) and Prednisone (10 mg - 1 tablet 2x a day) to combat the infection. 

When asked what type of food he was on - I responded Raw. Although I had just recently (2 days ago) returned to raw from using Core while he was recovering from another injury (ACL tear) . I was surprised to hear the vet say to keep him on raw (he lost 8 lbs while on kibble :-()...stating that eating dry kibble tends to make this type of infection (where it is located) worse. I asked my vet if I* actually could* keep him on raw while taking this medication and he responded that this antibiotic would not effect the flora in his stomach. 

Was hoping Connie or those with a bit more experience (then my vet) _*in feeding raw*_ could give me their insight, as I really don't need my boy to become sick(er) with something else.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Ack, I just caught this thread as I was about to head to bed. Can I send you a PM tomorrow, Lacey? :wink:


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

YES! Thanks Maren!


----------



## Jenn Caskill (Oct 7, 2009)

I've used cephalexin while feeding raw with no ill effects, if you are worried add a probiotic like acidophoulus 2 hours after every pill.


----------



## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas (Oct 1, 2009)

food regimen is not relat3ed with antibiotic efficency

On some pathologies we use different kind of nutritional regimens but are related with the disease not the antibiotic.

In your case, a wound infection that doesnt matters

But all we know raw food is better than kibbles when balanced+

the recommendation of your vet is on that direction i think

I am a DVM by the way


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Thanks Jenn for letting me know about your personal experience with cephalexin and raw! I really want to keep him on raw - he HATES kibble and it is a headache to get him to eat it....he's lost to much weight already.

Thanks also Cesar for your info. I had read somewhere that raw should not be fed if the dog is taking antibiotics. I hope it was not sounding like I did not trust my vet - he's been a vet for over 40 years and I've been utilizing his services (not just for Zane) for over 10 years now...I do like him and trust him, but he admittingly is not very knowledgeable about raw nor does he appear to be a fan. He did say that the irritation of eating hard kibble (something about it getting in the hair folicles around his nose and mouth area when he is eating it from the bowl) more then likely assisted in spreading the bacterial infection from his nose. 

My concern was more in the line of whether the antibiotic would change the flora in his stomach/intestines and leave him more susceptible to things like salmonella and the like if he continued to eat raw while on the meds. Also, with the obvious open sores that he has from the bacterial infection on his nose, on top of and on the bottom of his muzzle around his mouth....would eating raw worsen the infection or cause perhaps a different type of infection. The last three months with Zane have been hard on the both of us - keeping a Mal with no off switch on bedrest is not an experience I'd wish on my worst enemy...now this


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> .... He gave me Cephalexin (500 mg - to be given 2 capsules 3x a day) .... he responded that this antibiotic would not effect the flora in his stomach. ...


??

Are you sure that's what he said? It's a broad-spectrum antibiotic.

Maybe he just meant that the killed microflora would not dictate a switch away from raw.

Those concerns about feeding raw with gut flora being affected by antibiotics would not be something I'd worry about. I'd be re-introducing "bugs" with probiotics, spaced so as not to give them just before the med.

I'm sure Maren will help you out.



I hope she posts here. Good topic.

And please let us know how he does.


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Yup - I'm sure that is what he said. 

The only product I have in the house right now is Solid Gold D-Zymes Powder - will that do until I can order some probiotics? Any recommendations - brand names ? He refuses to eat yogurt...I'm sure I could get a few teaspoons down his throat though.](*,)


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I have a list I printed out from a consumer lab (tested for truth on label and survival to purchase).

Gotta find it.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

This is the first dog I know of who doesn't eat (and love!) yogurt. :lol:


I did at least find the Huffnagle book, and from the section about replacing microflora when on an antibiotic protocol:

He includes Culturelle, Florastor, and Jarrow-dophilus. The natural-food store where I buy fish oil and yogurt carries all three of these, so I imagine that finding one or two shouldn't be hard.

(By the way, Florastor happens to include _Saccharomyces boulardii_ and Culturelle includes _Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG_; these were both mentioned in another probiotics book as being particularly effective against antibiotic-triggered diarrhea.)


Don't forget prebiotics, and try to introduce multiple probiotic sources. (For me, that means that I add a supplement to yogurt or kefir.)


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

*Thanks so much for the information Connie*! I was able to find Culturelle at a local store and got enough of it to give while he is on the antibiotics. There was another brand called Accuflora (claims to be the good stuff from yogurt in pill form - helps replenish beneficial bacteria *after* antibiotic use). Ingredients for the Accuflora are Maltodextrin, Lactobacillus acidophilus, L rhamnosus, Bifdobacterium bifidum, L salvarious and S themophius. Do you think that Accuflora is worth a try after he has finished with his antibiotics?

Zane is the first dog I've owned that is a picky eater (like me) - the others all woof down whatever I place in front of them and will eat no matter how full they are. Zane will stop eating, even his favorite foods (rabbit and tripe) once he's full. Does not like organ meat unless it is frozen. I tried freezing the yogurt but that was a no go. He HATES fish (once in a blue moon he'll knawl on the head) and fish oil - tried all the brands and types....gotta shove the fish oil in pill form down his throat - impossible to conceal it even in tripe...at least he eats the Vitamin E.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I will see what I can find out about Accuflora.


ConsumerLab reported so many BS labels (did not pass testing) that I now realize that picking and choosing is more a matter of which ones actually have what they say, alive and in the numbers claimed, than deciding exactly which strains you want.

Also, the matching of strains with conditions AND the particular needs of any individual are both in very early stages ..... still so early that the primary goal is probably getting brands that test OK, from a supplier that treats them carefully, and selecting for large numbers per dose (and of more than one strain).

I switch around among the ones that tested true to claims and I also use cultured dairy containing 5 to 8 active strains.

Culturelle, Florastor, and Jarrow-dophilus are not just for "during antibiotics protocols," BTW. They are three of the ten or so that Huffnagle recommends in general. All three "passed" on that consumer-lab-testing list, too; there were others as well, but I didn't find that list yet.


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

My vet determined that we needed to reduce the amount of Cephalexin that Zane was taking. Zane was having problems with vomiting and loose stools - which of course reduced his energy level significantly - poor boy . He has not gotten sick and his bowel movements have been normal since reducing the amount (from two 500 mg pills 3x a day- to one pill 2x a day) AND receiving Culterelle in the last 24 hours **knocking on wood** . The infection, at least visually, still appears to be diminishing. *Thanks again Connie!*

I could not find the other 2 recommended brands locally - but I was able to order them on-line.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> My vet determined that we needed to reduce the amount of Cephalexin that Zane was taking. Zane was having problems with vomiting and loose stools - which of course reduced his energy level significantly - poor boy . He has not gotten sick and his bowel movements have been normal since reducing the amount (from two 500 mg pills 3x a day- to one pill 2x a day) AND receiving Culterelle in the last 24 hours **knocking on wood** . The infection, at least visually, still appears to be diminishing. *Thanks again Connie!*
> 
> I could not find the other 2 recommended brands locally - but I was able to order them on-line.


As miraculous as antibiotics are, they sure can wreak havoc in the process of doing their task ... 

I'm glad he's not still suffering with the GI results.


BTW, I treat probiotics as carefully as I do fish oil.


----------



## Curtis McHail (Nov 7, 2009)

I know this is late but to make it simple, dogs are carnivores. If a wolf, or lion, or leopard in the zoo had a cut nose and infection it would be given anti-biotics...not dog food :-D


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sorry I was really, REALLY late on this...I had to track down our bacteriologist, who is known for ignoring e-mails. :smile: I didn't mention raw kind of on purpose (just not a good idea, LOL), but he did say a lot of the broad spectrum antibiotics and ones that are designed to work against anaerobes (like those in the gut) typically tend to wipe out the gut flora. The three main drugs that work on anaerobes are the three Cs: cephalosporins (cephalexin is a cephalosporin), chloramphenicol, and clindamycin, so that includes your cephalexin. He says just like in people, it's pretty highly individualistic who is sensitive and who isn't, so if your dog is, he says go ahead and try the probiotic either through yogurt or a preparation like Forti Flora (it's a Purina product sold through many vets...even if you're not a fan of Purina, they do a at least know those microbials "work" on dogs which isn't always the case). It's probably past the fact, but if your dog is on raw, doing canned or home cooked is probably the closest you'll get if he doesn't do as well on kibble.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

One last tidbit I picked up from our bacteriologist...there's a new cephalosporin drug out now called Convenia. It's an injectable cephalosporin that lasts 2 weeks (instead of the usual 3x a day dosing of oral cephalexin). It's quite a bit more expensive, but since it's both highly convenient (I'm thinking hard to pill cats here mostly...) and it doesn't concentrate in the GI tract as much as oral cephalosporins, may be an alternative to dogs prone to diarrhea or otherwise sensitive to some antibiotics. It's really quite new, so a lot of vets don't have it yet. But maybe worth asking for?


----------

