# X rays and females in heat?



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

I have always been told that xraying females when they are in heat, or pregnant is not a very good thing to do as it will give worse results. I have heard it can add upto 25% worse scores?
Are there any Vets that may know the authenticity of this?


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## Jonathon Howard (Nov 11, 2010)

Gday mate,
refer to the site below. Its a veterinary orthopedic foundation. They don't recommend it.
http://www.offa.org/hd_procedures.html


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Thnaks for that link. Im guessing the 25% extra score thing could be right as well? Using the AVA scoring as an example, if it only effected your score by maybe 1 or 2 points taking your score from 8 to a 9 it wouldnt really be an issue. If it took your score from 8 to 11 it starts to become an issue.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Interestingly, I don't believe there's a study out there that definitively shows that females shouldn't be radiographed for hips during heat/pregnancy (gotta plan before the breeding...), but it's what OFA has always said, so... *shrug*


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I think it is the excepted thing to avoid it if possible for "possible" effect on results.

That being said I know people that have done it with dogs in heat and also pregnant dogs, and dogs got excellent and good ratings, maybe a couple of those goods would've ended up excellent, who knows for sure...


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Interestingly, I don't believe there's a study out there that definitively shows that females shouldn't be radiographed for hips during heat/pregnancy (gotta plan before the breeding...), but it's what OFA has always said, so... *shrug*


Maren, here's just my thought on it. But pregnant dogs produce relaxin. Pregnant humans do shortly before their due date. Relaxin makes all your joints super "noodly" and really loose (doesn't normally stop until 5 months or so post partum for a person) so if Relaxin has the same effect on dogs, I can definitely understand why x-raying for a hip score while pregnant could result in a poorer score.

I don't know about bitches in heat and how it effects, but the pregnant part seems logical.


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## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

We xrayed a female the day before she was in heat - OFA GOOD.

My, layman thoughts, are that if the hormones affect the joints, and they may, it would depend upon what stage of heat she's at as there are varying amounts of hormones throught the heat. Estrogen, LH, etc.

Pregnant, I wouldn't do it.

Ang


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

My thoughts: during pregancy -due the hormones & losing up pelvis- I wouldn't do it, but in heat? Yes, why not?


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Found one mentioned study in regards to Penn Hip. Not that is matters with the breeds that most people have on here, but I recommend cardio clearances prior to estrus or pregnancy. Increasing blood volume can result in physiologic murmurs.


Since the 1960’s it has been believed that increased estrogen levels during the female heat cycle will affect hip joint conformation by making them appear falsely lax (looser). 

In 1997, researchers at the University of Pennsylvania decided to test this theory and followed 9 bitches through an entire cycle. During the study vaginal cytology, behavioral signs and physical exam findings were used to identify the different stages of the cycle. Blood samples were obtained during each estrus-phase, from which hormone concentrations were measured, specifically oestradiol-17β and progesterone. Hip x-rays were taken using the OFA view (hip-extended view) and the PennHIP radiographs during each phase of the heat cycle.

Results showed that even though the hormone levels fluctuated (as expected) the PennHIP DI (hip laxity) and the OFA-type scores did not change significantly. 

*In Short: *_*The rise in hormone levels during the female heat cycle does not affect hip laxity as measured by PennHIP. *_However, hormones released during the birthing process (relaxin) and during lactation (prolactin) however, can increase hip laxity and hip evaluation at this time is therefore not recommended. _*PennHIP recommends waiting 8 weeks post lactation or 16 weeks post welping, before a PennHIP evaluation*_.


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## Al Bincarousky (Feb 14, 2009)

If your vet know how to place properly that a heat cycle won't change anything. This has long been an excuse for poor hip scores. I have had xrays done on two bitches at the beginning of their cycle w great results. Hip balls and sockets don't change during heat. Again, proper placement is everything.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

I heard there was one study in Sweden where it showed certain anathetics also had the effect of muscle rexlaxants and were showing more subluxation on hip xrays. 

Also has anyone ever done xrays and scored them of wolfs? It would be interesting to know the range of hip scores found in a wild wolf pack.


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Just did a brief literature search and did not come up with anything regarding wolves and radiographs, hips or coxofemoral joints (various key words to search for). Interesting thought...however you would think that darwinism would have weeded out any hip issues, as only the strongest would be allowed to breed. Natural diet and activity would also take out the nutritional or inappropriate exercise factors out of the equation. It would appear that hip dysplasia is a man made disease....what a surprise


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Maren, here's just my thought on it. But pregnant dogs produce relaxin. Pregnant humans do shortly before their due date. Relaxin makes all your joints super "noodly" and really loose (doesn't normally stop until 5 months or so post partum for a person) so if Relaxin has the same effect on dogs, I can definitely understand why x-raying for a hip score while pregnant could result in a poorer score.
> 
> I don't know about bitches in heat and how it effects, but the pregnant part seems logical.



I think you misunderstood my statement. I know the line of thinking quite well as well as OFA's recommendations, but as far as I knew, no one had shown a statistically significant effect is what I was going for. I had to look this up a few months ago when a dog in the first day of her heat cycle (just started to spot with discharge) came in for OFA hip films as they intended to breed her.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, I've had bitches with rears all over the place while in heat. Just watch them going away. As for the laxity issue, I think it depends on the bitch. Have known of a bitch x-rayed while pregnant--OFA good. My own bitch was x-rayed close to a heat cycle--mild, subluxed. I decided to redo her given her pedigree and the hormones and the previous observation of her and her mother looking loose while in heat. She came in early a couple of weeks later, again. However, this thime she she passed with her fair. I haven't looked lately, but the OFA literature and Keller in a few seminars always said it was best to not x-ray around a heat cycle. If its your only opportunity, I say go for it but keep in mind the hormone factor if they come back loose and redo them later.

Terrasita


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Gina Pasieka said:


> Just did a brief literature search and did not come up with anything regarding wolves and radiographs, hips or coxofemoral joints (various key words to search for). Interesting thought...however you would think that darwinism would have weeded out any hip issues, as only the strongest would be allowed to breed. Natural diet and activity would also take out the nutritional or inappropriate exercise factors out of the equation. It would appear that hip dysplasia is a man made disease....what a surprise


I agree 100% that it is man made.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Well, I've had bitches with rears all over the place while in heat. Just watch them going away. As for the laxity issue, I think it depends on the bitch. Have known of a bitch x-rayed while pregnant--OFA good. My own bitch was x-rayed close to a heat cycle--mild, subluxed. I decided to redo her given her pedigree and the hormones and the previous observation of her and her mother looking loose while in heat. She came in early a couple of weeks later, again. However, this thime she she passed with her fair. I haven't looked lately, but the OFA literature and Keller in a few seminars always said it was best to not x-ray around a heat cycle. If its your only opportunity, I say go for it but keep in mind the hormone factor if they come back loose and redo them later.
> 
> Terrasita


A freind of mine GSD came into season before he had done the hips so he got the vet to do them while the prog test was taken. She was ready that day for breeding and the hips came back eqivalent to OFA Fair. The Vet said that he wasnt too worried as she was right in season and this can give upto 20 extra sublaxation. Her issue was more subaxation than Norberg etc.
But then again, hip scoring isnt an exact science anyway.
Another guy I know just had his female Mali xrayed and he decided to do both pennhip and AVA. So traditional AVA score came bacl 0/0 which is OFA Excellent. Pennhip put her in the bottom 30%tile.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I agree 100% that it is man made.


 Man made from bad breeding or man made from food etc?


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