# Hands on!



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm on a pretty simple level when it comes to dog training but I am well aware of the benefits of prong and e-collars and their merits.

I can motivate my dogs with my body language and actions. With my last dog, I reduced the motivation tug sessions before "B" obedience, into an "eyebrows" raised, body tensed, motivation.

For instance, with the "send away" I heel the dog in training into a state where he can barely wait to go and the method then takes a secondary role.

What I'm trying to get at is, we all have it in us to motivate the dog ourselves. Linda Myers just described it in a thread when she said "if you feel flat, your dog will be flat".

I am appalled at all these "tools" to "wake up" the dog when it's actually in ourselves and the dog responds to this much more naturally than anything else.

I feel somehow lost in the discussions sometimes and wonder if there are other likewise thinking handlers around?


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I'm on a pretty simple level when it comes to dog training but I am well aware of the benefits of prong and e-collars and their merits.
> 
> I can motivate my dogs with my body language and actions. With my last dog, I reduced the motivation tug sessions before "B" obedience, into an "eyebrows" raised, body tensed, motivation.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you really have it down, and you have a great way to train that you are happy with. That is important. Do you have any videos of your dog in action?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I don't always think that nervousness "travels" down the line. I am pretty calm when I trial, sometimes, like recently, I get discombobulated when the dog blows off easy stuff, and start doing math in my head for the points loss, and do tend to start thinking ahead, which probably doesn't help, but very often I am thinking ahead, and the dog performs the exercise regardless.

I would need, along with the whole of the Mondio community, a LOT more trials to get better at my end of the trialing thing. However, I have seen way to many nervous people with calm dogs just go out there and do it nicely, and calm people go out and not have a good day to think much of the "traveling" down the line theory.

I am sure there are exceptions, but the dog would show that pattern of behavior before trial I would think.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I don't always think that nervousness "travels" down the line. I am pretty calm when I trial, sometimes, like recently, I get discombobulated when the dog blows off easy stuff, and start doing math in my head for the points loss, and do tend to start thinking ahead, which probably doesn't help, but very often I am thinking ahead, and the dog performs the exercise regardless.
> 
> I would need, along with the whole of the Mondio community, a LOT more trials to get better at my end of the trialing thing. However, I have seen way to many nervous people with calm dogs just go out there and do it nicely, and calm people go out and not have a good day to think much of the "traveling" down the line theory.
> 
> I am sure there are exceptions, but the dog would show that pattern of behavior before trial I would think.


Good points. People get 0's even when they are not nervous.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I got 6 0's for a total loss of 117 points. I was actually looking forward to the trial, it was a cool set up.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I don't always think that nervousness "travels" down the line. I am pretty calm when I trial, sometimes, like recently, I get discombobulated when the dog blows off easy stuff, and start doing math in my head for the points loss, and do tend to start thinking ahead, which probably doesn't help, but very often I am thinking ahead, and the dog performs the exercise regardless.
> 
> I would need, along with the whole of the Mondio community, a LOT more trials to get better at my end of the trialing thing. However, I have seen way to many nervous people with calm dogs just go out there and do it nicely, and calm people go out and not have a good day to think much of the "traveling" down the line theory.
> 
> I am sure there are exceptions, but the dog would show that pattern of behavior before trial I would think.


What's this got to do with my post? Um Himmel's Willen????????????


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Fred Hassen said:


> Sounds like you really have it down, and you have a great way to train that you are happy with. That is important. Do you have any videos of your dog in action?


No, at the moment I don't have videos. We've ony had a Camcorder for a month or two. I think you have to realise that in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, etc. we don't impress each other with videos. We have score books, and these count!!!!


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Gillian... motivating your dog takes time and effort.... people like instant results.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Matthew, so I gathered, just like instant cameras!

Thanks


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I love acting like an idiot when I play or work with my dogs to keep myself interesting.....wish I wouldn't lock up when at a seminar.....ugh....that is when I have my "flat" issues.....


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I recently trained with a few old timers that were from the compultion era, that have switched to motivation. It's really hard to watch, no excitement at all. They will not take my advise, I've only been doing it for 3 years. They are telling me I play with the dog to much ](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Edward Egan said:


> I They are telling me I play with the dog to much ](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)


Try using motivational training in the police dog arena.... watch out for flying bricks.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> I love acting like an idiot when I play or work with my dogs to keep myself interesting.....wish I wouldn't lock up when at a seminar.....ugh....that is when I have my "flat" issues.....


Age helps Carol, believe me!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: What's this got to do with my post?

Then I have no idea what you are talking about.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

And I have absoultely no idea what you are talking about! Snap!

I started the post so know what I was talking about!!!!!

Get orf before I shift you orf!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I still have no idea what you are talking about, or what is snapping. What is "orf" ??


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

"Orf" is an old North English expression for off as if you hadn't already checked it!

What your post had to do with "Hands on" I really don't know so either stay on topic or retreat, always assuming you know what "retreat" is!

Tschüssi!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No Marine knows what retreat is. However we all know what switzerland is.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jeez, that's something from someone from over the ditch! Switzerland is not known to all!!


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> No Marine knows what retreat is. However we all know what switzerland is.
















But seriously, Gillian quoted Linda Myers statement about feelings. Some people believe our thoughts/emotions affect dogs...ie: traveling down the lead. Jeff's post had something to do with that, no?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Jeez, that's something from someone from over the ditch! Switzerland is not known to all!!


I was on a bus in Nevada I think it was.... this Texan guy was having a wee chat with me on the bus, he asked where do you come from and I said Scotland, he replied...."is that from round here"? What can you say to that ???

I agree, jeff is way off topic...guess he's still a little intense and self absorbed after his wee outing lol !


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I feel somehow lost in the discussions sometimes and wonder if there are other likewise thinking handlers around?


 
Gillian I know I do to. 
In the last few years I’ve trained a whopping 3 dogs (ABs and PB) and currently have started a 4 month old AB motivationally. Prior to this used the more accepted traditional methods on 8-9 dogs (GSDs, Rotties and dobes).

What I have come away with is this…all things being equal choice will always beat out force.
When I got the revelation that dog training didn’t have to be stressful, a fight of wills or risk of loosing potentially days, weeks, and/or months of training if done wrong. It freed me up to explore other options and methods. I’m not saying that there is never a time for “because I said so” but those moments are few and far between.
Not to mention what does a handler go to if the method fails? I think we all know the answer to that.


When the dog makes it up in his own mind that you’re the best thing since sliced white bread on the field and off. It’s all cake from there because you’re not fighting to keep or maintain his attention. And because the dog has chosen you he also is now receptive to what you want to teach him. 

The drawback to this choice…patience on the handler’s part, most of us including myself are somewhat impatient. I only know person who is the Queen of Patience…Terrasita. LOL
Because it’s a thought process of the dog giving you his complete undivided attention no matter the going ons that must come from the dog of his own accord and takes as long as it takes. 
The key to speeding the process along is for the handler demeanor and attitude to upbeat, exciting and fun to be around. Who also is loaded down with all kinds of good stuff and is willing to share them.

It has been said that I have some very happy, bubbly dogs who all work in the same matter. One friend when so far to say my male Rook sees me as a secondary reward because he loads up around me when it’s time to work.


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Matthew Grubb said:


> Try using motivational training in the police dog arena.... watch out for flying bricks.


There is someone here locally who is doing just that its awesome to watch his dog work.


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I don't always think that nervousness "travels" down the line. I am pretty calm when I trial, sometimes, like recently, I get discombobulated when the dog blows off easy stuff, and start doing math in my head for the points loss, and do tend to start thinking ahead, which probably doesn't help, but very often I am thinking ahead, and the dog performs the exercise regardless.


I agree it's not always nerves, sometimes the handler is not presenting the same picture on trial day. Because there's the picture of training Joe which the dog very familiar with and sees all the time.Then there's the trialing Joe (picture) someone who smells and sounds like training Joe but is not is showing the same picture that the dog has in his mind to signal the learned behaviors. Dogs are very astute to our body language and while we are thinking in verbal. The dog see watch it all and uses the picture we present as a reinforcment to the word command.


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## leih merigian (Aug 8, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I'm on a pretty simple level when it comes to dog training but I am well aware of the benefits of prong and e-collars and their merits.
> 
> I can motivate my dogs with my body language and actions.


Well, I understand what you are saying and agree with you one million percent.

I could get my dog into drive by how I'd breathe and look at her, how I'd hold my body, and she loved it. 

I think it's a lot more work to become the center of your dog's universe without using compulsion...by having to be the most interesting thing out there, all the time. It's exhausting, in fact. But, for me, it works. I also really believe that training should be fun for both the handler and the dog. If it's not, something is wrong.

I always think about Stephanitz's statement (to paraphrase), about "how do I say this to my dog?" To me, there is nothing more wonderful than deep communication with your dog, being able to figure out how to explain what you want, while making it an enjoyable experience for both. Developing that mutual language and communication takes time.

The cliche about getting what you pay for works in here...short cuts just don't cut it.

leih


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I'm on a pretty simple level when it comes to dog training but I am well aware of the benefits of prong and e-collars and their merits.
> 
> I can motivate my dogs with my body language and actions. With my last dog, I reduced the motivation tug sessions before "B" obedience, into an "eyebrows" raised, body tensed, motivation.
> 
> ...





There are definately "other likewise thinking handlers around".


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