# being run off?



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Some talk going on in another thread that I found interesting. What steeps do you guys take after a dog has been run? And when producing a dog for sport do you try and get it to where you want it with it never being run? For those of you that produce dogs for sport *and* LE what do you do different with them as far as stress and do you try and get them both there without ever running them off? 
And finally can you explain your different views on a dog that does not initially engaging and being run off and how what they do after their run off makes you think different of the dog?

I have some of my own views that I might chime in with but am interested to read a few others first. 
I will say that I don’t think you can get a dog to a high level without ever breaking it and that breaking it and doing some specific things afterwards is needed. 
Also I am not a believer that certain dogs can’t or won’t ever run. I think all dogs will run and should be?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Some talk going on in another thread that I found interesting. What steeps do you guys take after a dog has been run? And when producing a dog for sport do you try and get it to where you want it with it never being run? For those of you that produce dogs for sport *and* LE what do you do different with them as far as stress and do you try and get them both there without ever running them off?
> And finally can you explain your different views on a dog that does not initially engaging and being run off and how what they do after their run off makes you think different of the dog?
> 
> I have some of my own views that I might chime in with but am interested to read a few others first.
> ...


Pretty good for a backyard champion and you saved me some typing. Best to get this on a general thread. Off to train, but will be interesting to see opinions on "all dogs will run and should be."

T


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

"I think all dogs will run and should be?" 

I've seen a couple of dogs hurt, physically, I mean broken bones, one shot and lost a leg, continue the attack. I do believe those are the exceptions.

My question though, why would you want to run one. Meaning, going beyond ordinary training methods to run one. Sure a weak dog has to be shown for what it is, but why would you want to run every dog.

DFrost


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Forget about MWD's and Police K9's. As far as sport dogs go. There is no reason to attempt to "run off" a dog beyond the scope of the rules. If someone can train a weak dog to get through an exercise. Then congrats on their training abilities. I also believe any dog can be run. There are some dogs with a high pain threshold that can stay in a fight longer but under the right circumstances with the right motivation. They head for the hills too. Some dogs will get confused if you're totally non reactive.
I'm not sure if everyone considers that "being run off" but if you send your dog to bite someone and they don't? I consider that a failure.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

If some police dogs have lost their lives trying to stop real life bad guys then it is simply not true that all dogs can be run off.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I am sure there is some reasoning that can be used to have the dog broken.
I can even guess at what some of that reasoning might be. I can see some people wanting to test a dog, and even maybe trying to find his breaking point, if he is to be bred, for instance. and can think of some other reasons like I said. but....

I cant see a reason for it though personally... not for a sport dog especially. I think most people do not want the decoys getting in the dogs head, and do not want the dog to think they can be hurt that badly or ran, through other methods, and expecting that as being even a possibility that could happen in a trial. you do something like that, you can forget your longbite being impressive most likely..dog will slow down, and gather, and be far less committed and will lose his reckless abandon I would guess..

I think many people do want there dogs to know that people can possibly hurt them physically, or do other things to them, and prepare the dogs as best they can for that, within reason..some much more than others...but I dont know many people that want their dogs to know that they can be broken by someone to the point of losing... other than by themselves if needed (the handler)..I cannot see a point to letting the dog know he can be beaten in a challenge or fight. hurt sure.stressed sure....beaten and having to quit, no...if I send a dog to bite someone, I am not really wanting him going into it thinking he can be beaten...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I see absolutely no reason why a sport or a street dog should, in training, be pushed to the point of running. You never want that "defeat" in their head.


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## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

This is silly. Let's make it fair, you try and run a good strong dog without equipment....it won't be the dog running.


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## Isaiah Chestnut (Nov 9, 2009)

IMO, I believe a dog, more less psd, should be faced with the reality that there is a possibility of them being defeated. In that test, will reveal a dogs true desire to fight if its possible he could lose. Because it is a reality in the real world. I dont believe however, that you have to break them to to figure this out. If I were a psd handler, I want to be sure of my dogs true devotion to me, as mine will be completely in him. That can be established in training instead of waiting until the time arrives and I need him. As far as sport, I dont see a real reason to push them beyond the rules of the sport, as others have said. Unless they will be used for breeding, then character must be assesed through checking the dog. As far as testing on a decoy without equipment... I see your point. But I would equate a padded decoy, to a suspect high on speed with no desire to be apprehended. But, I do think that after the dust has cleared, the dog should get his man at the end. To give the hope needed through adversity that the fight can be won if he hangs in there.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I agree with Robin. I can run a dog any dog in my truck with windows up and doors closed. 

The real test is to run one with NO equipment on. That makes everything fair.

Would NEVER run one on purpose, maybe up to a point BUT never run him. Then build him back up before the dog is finished with this session. Ending with him winning, always.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ah, you guys are all assuming I meant to have a dog enter avoidance via pain or via a physical method. Sorry that is not what I meant at all. No reason to break legs here. But there are other was to make a dog avoid than physical methods. So the story of dogs LE dogs fighting to the death are not what I am talking about. And I am the first to agree that the bite suit can make us think we are tougher that we are when playing with dogs. The best thing you can do for someone with this mind set is get them in the thinnest suit you got. The its barely a suit-suit 
Lets face it Marens dog was not ran because of pain or abuse


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> Lets face it Marens dog was not ran because of pain or abuse


Chris, why the hard on for Maren and Maren's dog? [-X 

Whether the dog is EVER capable of attaining her goals or not atleast she has the BALLS to post her wins and losses. I giver her credit for sticking with her dog and working through it. It appears he is not some material object to throw out because of issues... it is her dog. I respect that! 

Stick with the topic and you have much more respect.


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Doug Zaga said:


> Whether the dog is EVER capable of attaining her goals or not atleast she has the BALLS to post her wins and losses. I giver her credit for sticking with her dog and working through it. It appears he is not some material object to throw out because of issues... it is her dog. I respect that!


+1

I think all dogs will run at some point. Just depends on the lengths you need to go to make them run. Some it takes a snap of the fingers, others a stare, and some others driving an 18 wheeler at them. 

I don't think a dog should purposely be run in a training situation, push them yes. My opinion, I'd rather show a dog adversity and show him that he can overcome it.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

In order for this thread to remain open, let's stick to the subject and not make it a personal attack. 

DFrost


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Since this thread was started as a side kick from her thread and everyone here started referring to running a dog with physical methods. I assumed the thought that I meant to run with only physical methods was due to her scenario. My reference was really not to knock her dog but to make a point that dogs also run due to other reasons than pain. 
Its comical to see all the references implying physical methods. I was thinking along the lines of environmental myself but was thinking of others. 
Maybe I shouldn’t have used a name, would a hint/ guessing game be better next time? 
Replies are a bit overly sensitive and narrow minded? … put the lock on the thread


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Your wish is my command.

DFrost


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