# Using multiple studs...



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Anyone ever use more than one stud on a bitch, in the same heat cycle?
Just a question...not planning on it.

Seems like you could get a jump on some results of test breeding by breeding to 2 different studs, and sort them out genetically after pups are born.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

This has been done BUT you have to do DNA so that you know who's is who's.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> This has been done BUT you have to do DNA so that you know who's is who's.


yes of course...


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

Some peoepl that we are working together with has done this.
Im probobly planing on doing it with my bitsh if I breed her. Its nice to get some more kombinations out of her and its a nice way to evaluate both male and bitsh when you get pups in the exact same age.

We do DNA on every liter anyway.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I did it with one of my litters. And I will definitely consider doing it again. If it works out (litter is split approximately 50/50 between sires) then IMO you get more "bang for your buck" in terms of more genetic diversity with less "wear and tear" on your female. Especially important if your female is a competition dog, I love the idea of being able to get 2 litters with the down time of only 1. It's also an interesting blind study since you can watch the pups develope in the exact same environment without knowing for sure who sired what. It's the best "side by side" comparison I think you can get when it comes to comparing two stud dogs offspring. I know in my litter I thought it would be easy to ID who sired what pups but it turned out I was only about 60% correct. Maybe 70%, I can't remember for sure anymore without looking back at my notes. 

It will be more expensive, if I remember right the DNA costs added about $500.00 to the overall cost of the litter. It also turned out that despite their turnaround time claims on the AKC website my pups were 8 weeks old before I got the results back and knew for sure who sired what, so a few pups went off to their new homes without me being positive on the sires. And those 2 pups were some of the ones I guessed incorrectly on. 

It's definitely something I'll consider doing again though. It would also be a useful tool if you were leasing a female for a breeding, could only get one litter from her, and really wanted litters from here with more then 1 male.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I have done this two times so far. The first time all puppies were from the same dog, the second time I got one puppy from one dog and the rest were from the other dog. I will do it again. Sometimes it is not required to DNA test. For example I bred a Malinois bitch to Endor (a Malinois) and Arko ( Dutchie). All puppies were brindle, so no DNA testing was required.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> Sometimes it is not required to DNA test. For example I bred a Malinois bitch to Endor (a Malinois) and Arko ( Dutchie). All puppies were brindle, so no DNA testing was required.


Hi Mike,

Are you sure no DNA testing was required? The litter that my DS came from had 2/12 puppies that were Malinois and I've seen black and brindle Mals, that looked a lot like Dutchie. Even the AKC will ILP a DS as a Brindle Malinois


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

My question too Thomas, how do you know without DNA?


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## Cate Helfgott (Feb 16, 2009)

Brindle is located at the K Locus...The K Locus is postulated to look like this : 

Kb : Dominant Black
Kbr : Brindle
Ky : Expressed (in the case of Malinois, it's Fawn)

Fawn (Ky-Ky) x Brindle (Kbr-X) : can produce all Brindle pups (Brindle parent doesnt carry for recessive Ky...and is Kbr-Kbr); or it can produce some Fawn and some Brindle (theoretically at a ratio of 1 : 1 with the Brindle parent is Kbr-Ky)

Fawn (Ky-Ky) x Fawn (Ky-Ky) will always produce Fawn (Ky-Ky)

Two Brindle Parents can produce Fawn and Brindle depending on what they're carrying ([(Kbr-Ky) x (Kbr-Ky)] will produce puppies at a 3 Brindle to 1 Fawn ratio....theoretically....though nature frequently fudges the numbers)

Since all the puppies were Brindle...the only possibility is that they all were the get of the Brindle dog.

~Cate

(lol, I love simply inherited genetics...it's the only math that ever makes any kind of sense to me. If you look at it as a math equation it works out.)


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

If you breed a Mali to a mali you will never get a Dutchie. But you can breed a Dutchie to a Dutchie and get several malis.


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