# Gunfire



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

If posted before, forgive the new kid. How many folks use gunfire distractions in their PPD training? Blank guns or live rounds fired away from folks. I'm not taking about doing drive-by scenarios!!! We have done this alot and we also use the poppers on the whips that sound like .22 rounds. Some of our group members jump but the dogs are steady to it. It's used in the SCH BH.


----------



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

We use gun fire in APPDA


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I think gunfire is pretty standard in dog training?

I do however notice that dogs can differentiate between a whip and a gunshot. I have seen dogs do fine with the cracking of a whip that leaves my ears ringing, but panic at the sound of a blank gun.

We have even tried to fire the gun at the EXACT same time that the whip comes down, and the dog still spooks at the gunfire, but is fine with the solo whip.


----------



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

So true Mike.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Back in the day, we used the popper whip alot and when it came time to but the BH on my Giant Schnauzer he only pulled forward out of heel slightly. His response, "Oh you want to shoot guns do you?" Cody would get fired up over that. I have made my own poppers and it is done with duck decoy line. Not that I'm cheap mind you.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Thats fine for a dog that is sound with guns, but if the dog spooks with gunfire, the exposure to the whip won't help.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike you're right. I have had dogs bolt on the sound of the whip, gunfire, even wood being clapped together. I use 2"x4"s clapped together to test puppies to sound. Just keep the fingers out of the way.


----------



## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

We use blank guns and I have used a 38 with blank rounds. Now thats fun. :twisted:


----------



## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

jay lyda said:


> We use blank guns and I have used a 38 with blank rounds. Now thats fun. :twisted:


If you want to take it a notch higher try the blank guns that shoot 209 shotgun primers... nice for the gap between .38 and actual handgun fire.


----------



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Matthew, that's what we use. So easy, and cheap.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Matthew Grubb said:


> If you want to take it a notch higher try the blank guns that shoot 209 shotgun primers... nice for the gap between .38 and actual handgun fire.


Bass Pro sells these. This is what I use too.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

LOL My FR club used to use those 209 shotgun primers. I didn't realize at the time it was anything special, until I started training at other places where they were using these tiny little 'cap guns' (22's or half loads) But depending on where you train, it makes sense, 'cannon fire' is going to bring the cops a lot faster then a little pop.

I think one difference between the whip and the gun is the air pressure. Dogs are very sensitive to that, which is why some dogs can tell a storm is coming long before any of us realize it. It may also be the pitch. I have a dog who has never show any sensitivity to any sort of gun fire, from pop guns to ordanance on the military base (not just at a distance either LOL). But I got a new bread maker that beeps, it's a higher pitch beep although I don't think it's any higher then the timer on my stove, my microwave etc, but this dog definitely reacts to that bread maker. And nothing else.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We use gunfire as well in PSD's. The bad guy, the good guy even third party shooters. The correct response, in our program, to gunfire is; no response. We use a .38, M -16 and an M-14. All different sounds. 

DFrost


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Aside from the couple of shots fired during Schutzhund obedience, my dog's get their exposure when I shoot trap, where they sleep under the truck about 20-30 ft away.


----------



## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Back when I was working a field trial lab, I started him on 22 blanks as we walked through the trails, gave him a treat after each shot and praised him, then weaned the treats. Moved up to 209 primers, very nice IMHO, and finally the real deal with shotgun fire at the range and on to pheasant season. Never had a problem with the progression. Since I have switched over to Ring training I just use the 209s and my lil guy doesn't seem to mind. This spring/summer we will be up at the cottage and I will do a little 40 cal pistol shooting with him tied a fair distance away to get a feeling for his response.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Will Kline said:


> I will do a little 40 cal pistol shooting with him tied a fair distance away to get a feeling for his response.


For gun green dogs, I always liked to have them involved in something while the gunfire is going off. Usually it's obediance. Just occupying their little minds doing something.

DFrost


----------



## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I like to initiate gunfire to green dogs during agility training also. I shoot while the K-9 is in the air jumping a hurdle, negotiating the A frame, while crawling thru a tunnel, and while scaling a ladder. 

Like David I do it with obedience also, I give the handler a command, and as the K-9 is excecuting same, I will fire off a round.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I started tossing my (then) 12 wk old pup's kong when I was about 100 yards away from my buddies' shooting trap. Within 15 or so tosses I was right behind the shooters. No reaction at all. 
The starting point and how close I get depends on the pup of course!


----------



## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

David Frost said:


> For gun green dogs, I always liked to have them involved in something while the gunfire is going off. Usually it's obediance. Just occupying their little minds doing something.
> 
> DFrost


Absolutely agree. I think this gives the dog a better chance of realising that the sound is not important.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Phil, that just shows my age. In my limited range of terminology, agility training is all part of obediance. ha ha. Of course I still call it a "confidence course". Ain't changin', don't see no need.

DFrost


----------



## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

> For gun green dogs, I always liked to have them involved in something while the gunfire is going off.


Sounds like a plan, I will just have to take turns with my brother keeping the little guy occupied while we try and out shoot one another. Gotta love that sibling rivalry thing that never goes away!!!! :wink:


----------



## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I know what you mean David!!!


----------

