# December 09 Mondio trial



## Jeff Oehlsen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gtc2CS-EC8mnbvc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T79oOmhggbE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs8crkkQ7rQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aYa7oMdTKI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab4EAMpBTnY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFHr9MRe_9M

The complete series. One interesting thing happened in the face attack over the obstacle, the decoy did not lift the barrage in time and the dog bit the stick. The judge and the decoy told me what happened after the trial, as I thought it was a bit weird.

Probably really long and boring, but you can't put the whole thing on youtube at once......gay. : )


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## chris haynie

when the dog bites the stick, and its the fault of the decoy, do you lose points?


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## Tim Bartlett

No, you won't lose points unless the dog lets go of the bite.


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## Tim Bartlett

Jeff,

Where is the video of the escort? I can't find it on any of the clips.


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## chris haynie

i was wondering the very same thing.


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## jason farrish

Jeff Im actually a big fan of your internet postings and that was a good performance in handling a strong dog.

I am surprised you would blame the decoy for biting the stick a little less hardcore than what I am used to you saying. Bas has bit the stick and or been hit in the face in almost every higher level trial Ive put him in. There is even a picture in the NARA newsletter with the stick wrapped around his face.

If we want strong dogs they must be tested strong. Good performance again!


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## jason farrish

Also this was a level 2 right? Where is the search and escort?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I was not BLAMING the decoy, in my opinion he did a really nice job. I just said that he did not get the barrage lifted in time. Shit happens.

Maybe I should have said that I watched my dog bounce off a decoy, and was wondering what that was about.


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## jason farrish

chris haynie said:


> when the dog bites the stick, and its the fault of the decoy, do you lose points?


I love this attitude "the fault of the decoy" Mondio Ring and French ring are the only sports in the world where the dog is not given the bite. That is a hard concept for many to grasp and this type of testing is one of the things that made the Malinois the king of all working breeds.

In french ring the decoy is expected to use speed, intimidation, and guile to make the dog miss and keep the dog from biting him.

It is the same in Mondio Ring except the decoy is not allowed to move laterally or push the dog off of him unless the dog is "impressed" which means the dog tried to go around, slowed down a large amount, or comes off the bite. 

In Jeffs case the dog comitted to the entry but missed the bite, the penalty would be "slow to bite" 1 point for every second the decoy wards off the dog after the initial hit. In this case I would have given Jeff 29 out of 30 for the 1 second slow to bite

A nice performance.


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## Josh McCleary

Jeff's dog was a blast to decoy! Very nice performance!

It's tough to tell in the video, but the sick was fanned out during the barrage. Buco clamped down on one of the bamboo splits and actually bit it clean off on his entry. I suspect that's why his mouth was closed when he hit my chest, that's also why I didnt drop the stick.

I thought that Jeff's dog looked really strong throughout most of the trial.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I am just going to put the escort up. I am not going to watch a million hours of video right now to find it. 

I went right down the line and grabbed 5 minutes or so and just put up all the thumbnails. Now you got me wondering what else I missed, as when I went back to movie maker it was right there. I was pretty tired when I put it up. Imagine that, me going without sleep. I couldn't get any information about how many dogs were trialing, and when the two's would be going at all, so of course I had to be there at the butt crack of dawn. I guess everyone signed up at the last minute.

6 hours of sleep lost later, I went on the field. stupid dogsports. Like they couldn't of just told me when to show up, so I could have slept.


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## Chris Michalek

Cool. Nice Schutzhund style heeling 


hey make a playlist of those 30 vids watching 30 vids gets old if you have to click every three minutes.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You could use the activity Chris, trust me on this. HA HA I called you the fat kid ! ! ! ! ! HA HA.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: In Jeffs case the dog comitted to the entry but missed the bite, the penalty would be "slow to bite" 1 point for every second the decoy wards off the dog after the initial hit. In this case I would have given Jeff 29 out of 30 for the 1 second slow to bite.

3 points per second is what happened at the trial in Colorado. That is a whole 'nother story though. Lets just say that my two, was about a ring 4. : )

Thanks Guys, Buko is my buddy, and he was pretty happy after this weekend. All he wants to do is bang.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Here is just the Search. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFp9SqyXgxo


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## Chad Byerly

Congrats on your legs of MR2 with Buko, Jeff!
I look forward to watching the videos soon.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Why wait ?? ALL the EXCITEMENT you could ever want, is right here in this action packed series in which, for the FIRST TIME EVER ! Buko fails the ****ING food refusal. BUT WAIT, THERES MORE !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUOyGORGGQ

Act now, and you can be bored more than once for the next hour. However, this is a limited time offer, and once it is gone, you will be forced to search the internet, to watch the REALLY boring dogs doing Mondio, as Buko is the most exciting dog out there. trust me, really.


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## James Idi

> Why wait ?? ALL the EXCITEMENT you could ever want, is right here in this action packed series in which, for the FIRST TIME EVER ! Buko fails the ****ING food refusal. BUT WAIT, THERES MORE !


LoL!

Thanks for posting your vids.

As a NOOB it's definantly interesting checking out these trials and seeing some kick ass dogs.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

If only the dog world was a little less pussy, you would see a lot more video.

Both days on the little wood, (scent discrimination) the dog did it in different places before the trial, and both times he stuck it in my eyesocket.

The second day the judge was nice and had me get closer and he everntually brought me the right one, but I am telling you, that is a long time to be standing there watching the dog wander about, and then come and sit next to you, while you are waiting for the time to run down. LOL

I think it is good for people to see this stuff as it happens, and realize that it does happen.

Most people get into a sport because they want to do something with their dog. Most drop out in the first year because of this very reason I think. 

Most people put the pretty videos up with exciting music. This is what it is like to go to a trial. Not really that sexy. When people actually DO pay attention to what is going on, it is nice.

Kevin and I were in the middle of implementing all the training stuff I am going to use on Esko, or maybe Buko jr, and it is working real well. I did not really work the OB very much, as I am shooting for a different time to get everything tightened up.

I think his three will be interesting to watch. If only he would bring back the little wood. : ) I have yet to see him do that in a trial.


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## Chris McDonald

Jeff, Really, really cool stuff. 
On that search video, how does the dog know who he is looking for? The guy in the bite suit? There looked to be many people in various places that the dog could have chosen to be the one. 
Sorry about the question but I don’t know anything about this stuff. 
Certainly looks much more interesting than SCH stuff. 
I really don’t understand why there are SHC clubs in my area but none of these ring sport stuff. 
Also what were you thinking when you got a GS to do this stuff? What did you want a challenge or something?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

The dog is looking for the decoy. Those suits stink pretty good, so an easy find for sure. The dogs know who has the suit on, and you have people on the field all the time anyway.

Esko comes from a long line of ring dogs. I actually prefer GSD's, and truth be known, I prefer Rotts over both of them, although that is just nuts to think a Rott could do this shit at any level other than 1. Or at least the likelyhood of ME finding that Rott is remote.


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## Nicole Stark

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Here is just the Search.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFp9SqyXgxo


Jeff what aspects of the performance are evaluated in the blind? And why the horn and whistle?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Don't bite the guy, and bark. Pretty much it. There is the deal where the dog has to pay attention or the decoy can take off.

I am not sure what you are meaning by the horn and the whistle. The horn tells you that the judge is telling you to go on. 

The whistle is for calling the dog. Is that what you were asking bulldog boy ?? : )


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## Nicole Stark

Thanks, but I don't feel like playing with you today Jeff.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Yet you already have. Gotta remember who is in charge here, and it is not you. I have no questions to ask of you......bulldog boy. HA HA


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## Nicole Stark

Maybe so but something tells me that at what 15, maybe 20 years younger than you, I am more likely to not only be more willing but more capable of intelligently answering a wider range of questions than you are. By the way your answer was less than impressive and pretty obvious to anyone watching. But, frankly if I had any doubts about whether or not you really thought I was too stupid to live your answer pretty much summed up what you think of me. At least it's confirmed.

"Bull dog boy" seems to be the prize for challenging you a little bit. Interesting to see that contrary to what you say, you really aren't that strong in constitution.


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## Chad Byerly

Just watched "part 2..." (starting with the Retrieve Refusal ), because for some reason the first link didn't work for me. I'll get through them all soon, clicking in your youtube channel. I like Buko.

Congrats again!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: I am more likely to not only be more willing but more capable of intelligently answering a wider range of questions than you are.

Just not gonna happen, I just don't like you.


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## Mike Scheiber

I got the ADD so I didn't watch all that much teh healing looked a bit gay nice touch. I haven't heard so much horn honking since summer camp at the bunk house when I was 13 years old


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## Jeff Oehlsen

That is a big part of the joke of gay heeling. Nice of you to get it, ADD and all.

If Sch had a recall from the bite, how would they signal the handler to do so ?? My guess is that they would use a horn.


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## jason farrish

Nicole Stark said:


> Jeff what aspects of the performance are evaluated in the blind? And why the horn and whistle?


French and Mondio ring are actually the only legitimate dog sports period end of story because of your comment.

Schutzhund is not a legitimate sport because it is 100% opinion and the score they come up with is literally pulled out of their ass not only that but the judge has an idea of what is correct in their head and they judge against that.

Now this is speaking of Schutzhund only as a sport aspect its value as a tool for evaluating temperment, breed test, etc, are not being called into question here (although some people would find its usefullness in those areas dubious at best)

Ring is purely deduction based and standardized deductions. In the guard for example the judge doesnt say "wow this dog is intense he is watching the helper closely hes realy into guarding him I can tell" 

The decoy in ring escapes from the dog and however many meters he escapes before the dog stops him is how many points the team loses.

In the search the dog can literally bark just once and not very loudly and will get full points for finding the bad guy. There are no deductions for "bothering the helper" or not barking confidently enough or whatever nonsense deductions you can come up with. In Ring the dog either bites and loses a bunch of points or it barks and doesnt bite. However the dog chooses to do this (my dog hugs the decoy around the chest and barks directly into his face) so long as the dog doesnt bite it gets full points.

Other dog sports are great but in reality only the ring sports are a true atheletic competion of the dog Vs the bad guy. It is objective instead of subjective it is standard instead of all over the place when it comes to deductions.


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## Nicole Stark

Thank you. I was able to gather much of what you covered in your explanation from the videos, which is why I attempted to start a conversation with Jeff about it to begin with. It probably wasn't all that obvious from my initial questions but I knew he was either going to answer me straight or he wasn't so I admittedly chose a pretty lame starting point to see if he would engage in a reasonable discussion with me. Anyway, I appreciate your taking the time to put together an explanation covering the fundamental differences between the two. 

In Jeff's videos, amongst other things, I found the distance at which the dog works away from the handler and the type of activity that took place in some of the exercises interesting, enough to wonder about the specifics of it. I find this type of work more to my liking honestly. The points or method of scoring in SchH doesn't interest or motivate me all that much but I do genuinely enjoy working with dogs in most any capacity and therefore welcome the fact that there's at least a few SchH clubs up here for some kind of work along those lines. The club I have trained with in recent years is comprised of terrific people who are goal oriented and committed to the sport. If for nothing else their methods have inspired me to be more disciplined or regimented in certain areas.

Have a good one.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Schutzhund is not a legitimate sport because it is 100% opinion and the score they come up with is literally pulled out of their ass not only that but the judge has an idea of what is correct in their head and they judge against that.

So you are saying it is GAY ?? LOL

I have been training then puppies then going to work, then training then puppies then going to work for the last month and a half.

I don't sleep all that well to begin with. The pups are old enough to start learning to be in a crate, and they want to come out, so, no sleep there.

You are not going to get a great answer from me, as I have left, and the person that is left is not one that wants to deal with you, or anyone else.

Maybe in two weeks.


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## jason farrish

No it isnt gay lol. Im not even saying Schutzhund sucks or anything like that I'm just saying if you look at it with true objective competitive sport criteria Schutzhund is like Ballroom dancing competition. The judge decides what he likes, what the score will be, and what is correct.

In Ring the judge is not suppossed to have that power he is only there to correctly identify the written mistakes and penalize them according to the written guidelines. In effect the judge doesnt give you your score and his opinion, likes, dislikes, etc, are in no way a factor.

Of course personal prejudice creeps in and 2 judges can come up with different scores but the swing is far, far less than in perfect picture sports like Schutzund and PSA.


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## Thomas Barriano

*The reason for Ring sport*



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Schutzhund is not a legitimate sport because it is 100% opinion and the score they come up with is literally pulled out of their ass not only that but the judge has an idea of what is correct in their head and they judge against that.
> 
> So you are saying it is GAY ?? LOL
> 
> I have been training then puppies then going to work, then training then puppies then going to work for the last month and a half.
> 
> I don't sleep all that well to begin with. The pups are old enough to start learning to be in a crate, and they want to come out, so, no sleep there.
> 
> You are not going to get a great answer from me, as I have left, and the person that is left is not one that wants to deal with you, or anyone else.
> 
> Maybe in two weeks.


Come on Jeff/Jason

The only reason you have Ring sport is for little Malinois and Dutch Shepherds who can't get a big HARD sleeve in their mouths and have owners too lazy (hung over?) to get up early and go tracking


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Yeah, so ??


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## Thomas Barriano

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Yeah, so ??



Real dogs and real men do Schutzhund ;-0


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## Jeff Oehlsen

And ballroom dance, and know better than to try and put Sch over Mondio. : )


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## David Feliciano

jason farrish said:


> French and Mondio ring are actually the only legitimate dog sports period end of story because of your comment.
> 
> Schutzhund is not a legitimate sport because it is 100% opinion.


The opinion of the FCI is that Mondio and IPO are the only legitimate protection dog sports.

Go back to eating your cheese, drinking your wine, and sniffing your own farts Jason.


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## andreas broqvist

Yes REAL MEN! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcZx0ylgsWE&feature=rec-HM-fresh%20div


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## David Feliciano

jason farrish said:


> Schutzhund is not a legitimate sport because it is 100% opinion and the score they come up with is literally pulled out of their ass not only that but the judge has an idea of what is correct in their head and they judge against that.
> 
> Ring is purely deduction based and standardized deductions. In the guard for example the judge doesnt say "wow this dog is intense he is watching the helper closely hes realy into guarding him I can tell"
> 
> The decoy in ring escapes from the dog and however many meters he escapes before the dog stops him is how many points the team loses.
> 
> In the search the dog can literally bark just once and not very loudly and will get full points for finding the bad guy.


So what you are saying is that Schutzhund is like boxing or MMA in that the judging is subjective and ringsports are like Tae Kwon Do or point sparring Karate. In Tae Kwon Do the judges don't say "WOW that guy really did some damage and hurt his oponent I can tell". If a fighter touches his opponent he gets the same point as if he hurts his opponent.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Jason, here is some cool video of a dog getting the stick on the brain pan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZBeX1S1_MU&feature=related


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## jason farrish

I love how Schutzhund people are up in arms over what I said when you all absolutely know its true. Schutzhund is not a legitimate athletic competition end of story there is too much opinion in the JUDGING were not even talking about the excersizes.

If they would fix the judging then it would become a legitimate competition. There again though Im not saying schutzhund is good or bad only that perfect picture sports are too subjectively judged and insteaed of judging the dogs effectiveness in accomplishing its task it is judged against the particular style the judge likes to see.

Here is case in point

In French Ring it is not a rule that your dog walks backwards in the defense of handler excersize in fact if you watch older videos most dogs diddnt. The decoy walks behind the handler assaults him and how ever many seconds it takes for your dog to defend you is how many points you lose. A handler figured out that if his dog walked backwards behind him the time it took for his dog to defend him was drasticly reduced. The rules are such in Ring that such innovation is common and never ending.

Schutzhund excersizes are structured so that everyone does the exact same thing and are judged against an ideal picture that the judge has in his mind. The only variance is really the auto out and silent guard. Any variance from the ideal picture is penalized and the penalty is up to the judge's opinion of how badly the dog varied from the judges opinion of how the excersize should look.

If a dog dirty bites in Ring it is a -2 for each infraction in Schutzhund the judge would say "ahhhh it was a little bit of bothering the helper" or "the dog was really bothering the helper" or something like that and the judge would in theory take more points off for lots of bites or for a few hard bites Vs little nips. Some judges dont mind dirty bites as much as others so their point deductions would vary. How well you score can be hugely effected by the judges like or dislike of your style of dog.

The last PSA championships I went to the first place dog in the level 3s had no less than 18 dirty bites in the transport where the second place dog had 2. The first place dog got the exact same score in the transport as second place. I think the point difference between first and second was around 5 points.

The debate of what sport is better for whatever reason is neverending but the glaring bad style of Schutzhund judging cannot be ignored. Schutzhund is a competition of styles and trends Vs a true atheletic one that is all am I saying and that cannot be denied if you have an objective open mind.

As for the MMA and boxing argument touche' as a trainer of MMA and Muay Thai champions I have said for years that the judging is terrible. The UFC has had several judges decisions lately that have reached abomination status Im not sure how to fix that one though.


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## David Feliciano

jason farrish said:


> As for the MMA and boxing argument touche' as a trainer of MMA and Muay Thai champions I have said for years that the judging is terrible. The UFC has had several judges decisions lately that have reached abomination status Im not sure how to fix that one though.



So what you are saying is that you prefer the much more subjective Pride style judging.


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## David Feliciano

jason farrish said:


> As for the MMA and boxing argument touche' as a trainer of MMA and Muay Thai champions


Is muay thai not the sport where the dominant fighter can lose a decision if he doesn't fight with the right style??? You know where the judges have an idea in their mind of what a muay thai fighter should fight like. Somebody who comes in using a combo of greco roman wrestling and western boxing won't fair well if the fight goes to the judges.


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## Josh Smith

jason farrish said:


> As for the MMA and boxing argument touche' as a trainer of MMA and Muay Thai champions I have said for years that the judging is terrible.


David, your arguments suck as bad as your ability to read an entire post.


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## Geoff Empey

David Feliciano said:


> So what you are saying is that Schutzhund is like boxing or MMA in that the judging is subjective and ringsports are like Tae Kwon Do or point sparring Karate. In Tae Kwon Do the judges don't say "WOW that guy really did some damage and hurt his oponent I can tell". If a fighter touches his opponent he gets the same point as if he hurts his opponent.



David here is a video with Michael Ellis explaining French Ringsport it is clear and concise in with Micheal's explanation. http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...ary-information-video-french-ringsport-12758/ Hope that helps .. 

I do have to agree with Jason Farrish's posts as well. 



Jason Farrish said:


> Schutzhund is not a legitimate athletic competition end of story there is too much opinion in the JUDGING were not even talking about the excersizes.
> 
> If they would fix the judging then it would become a legitimate competition. There again though Im not saying schutzhund is good or bad only that perfect picture sports are too subjectively judged and insteaed of judging the dogs effectiveness in accomplishing its task it is judged against the particular style the judge likes to see.


Somewhere along the line the selective judging that makes up Schutzhund has changed to where a dog is judged more so on aesthetics during exercises than successful completion of the exercise. Plus the fact that it can be interpreted in so many different ways by different judges, is key to the inconsistency. 

Sure there are many good things in Schutzhund, but IMHO the is the biggest issue is consistency across the board with judging from trial to trail from judge to judge. 

IMHO the only thing consistent is a BH and then the only SchH exercise that is a legitimate athletic test is the AD. Would you agree?


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## David Feliciano

josh smith said:


> david, your arguments suck as bad as your ability to read an entire post.


f*ck reading all that


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## Kadi Thingvall

jason farrish said:


> The last PSA championships I went to the first place dog in the level 3s had no less than 18 dirty bites in the transport where the second place dog had 2. The first place dog got the exact same score in the transport as second place. I think the point difference between first and second was around 5 points.
> 
> The debate of what sport is better for whatever reason is neverending but the glaring bad style of Schutzhund judging cannot be ignored. Schutzhund is a competition of styles and trends Vs a true atheletic one that is all am I saying and that cannot be denied if you have an objective open mind.


Coming from a Ring background, I never could figure out the judging in PSA. Then I found out it was based on the Sch style of judging, and I understood why LOL I'm not jumping on PSA or Sch as sports, I'm training a couple of dogs right now in Sch so ... And I would have played in PSA a lot more when it was super active in my area if I could have gotten some sort of consistent feel for the judging, I do like the scenario based sports a lot, but it's one reason I didn't compete more. 

But I agree that the judging in both sports can seem very abitrary when compared to Ring. Glenn Stephenson wrote an excellent post that is on the AWMA discussion board at www.workingmalinois.com explaining how Sch judging is done. I still prefer FR judging, but after reading his post it was the first time I really felt like I understood how a Sch judge is judging. It's worth a read, if I can find the exact URL I'll post it here.


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## David Feliciano

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Coming from a Ring background, I never could figure out the judging in PSA. Then I found out it was based on the Sch style of judging, and I understood why LOL I'm not jumping on PSA or Sch as sports, I'm training a couple of dogs right now in Sch so ... And I would have played in PSA a lot more when it was super active in my area if I could have gotten some sort of consistent feel for the judging, I do like the scenario based sports a lot, but it's one reason I didn't compete more.
> 
> But I agree that the judging in both sports can seem very abitrary when compared to Ring. Glenn Stephenson wrote an excellent post that is on the AWMA discussion board at www.workingmalinois.com explaining how Sch judging is done. I still prefer FR judging, but after reading his post it was the first time I really felt like I understood how a Sch judge is judging. It's worth a read, if I can find the exact URL I'll post it here.


GREAT post Kadi. Glen is a great judge and this year's 2009 southwestern regional schutzhund championship was a good example of how schutzhund judging can be confusing to some people. I thought Glen was very fair (he did not give me a great OB score so I am not biased based on my own scores under him). Many people criticized Glen for being biased as a judge, but the scores he gave were consistent with the dogs' performances. The people that were upset were the ones who believed in absolutes and mandatory point deductions and were not able to tell which dogs were better using their own eyes. A lot of people need every detail outlined for them or they can not train or evaluate a dog. Paint by numbers for dogsport if you will.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Sch is for little weak dogs that can pony prance. Put them on the ring field and watch them melt into ass grease. 

What a worthless sport. It is the major reason for the downfall of the GSD. Now you little idiots have to drag the Mals into the sport and ruin that breed.

Jason is exactly right, Sch is not a legitimate sport.


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## jason farrish

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sch is for little weak dogs that can pony prance. Put them on the ring field and watch them melt into ass grease.


Mmmmmmmm ass grease mmmmmmmm


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## David Feliciano

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sch is for little weak dogs that can pony prance. Put them on the ring field and watch them melt into ass grease.
> 
> What a worthless sport. It is the major reason for the downfall of the GSD. Now you little idiots have to drag the Mals into the sport and ruin that breed.
> 
> Jason is exactly right, Sch is not a legitimate sport.


Mondio is for dogs that can't handle stick hits, violence, or a decoy that is trying to chase them off of the field. Put your dogs on the schutzhund field where the violence is no longer an "illusion" and watch them leave the field. Ringsports prohibit the decoy from chasing the dog, but rather run from it. Schutzhunbd doesn't allow dogs that run during a protection exercise to continue with the trial and possibly earn a title.


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## Kyle Sprag

David Feliciano said:


> Mondio is for dogs that can't handle stick hits, violence, or a decoy that is trying to chase them off of the field. Put your dogs on the schutzhund field where the violence is no longer an "illusion" and watch them leave the field. Ringsports prohibit the decoy from chasing the dog, but rather run from it. Schutzhunbd doesn't allow dogs that run during a protection exercise to continue with the trial and possibly earn a title.


 
LOL, for a Schutzhund expert you don't know shit about it nor Ring.....LOL :-o


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I didn't read all that LOL 

You watch the video posted if your tard ass can sit still that long, and you tell me what it is that your gay little sport could do to make my dog run.

I will be waiting to make fun of you.

In the mean time, could you sing for us ?? Something happy, something christmassy. What is that spanish shit you sing ?? Do that one, then go and cry to the mods cause you are not getting your way.

Another Schutzhunder on his knees every night. How does it feel to know your sport is the ballroom dancing of dog sports ??


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## Kyle Sprag

http://s0.ilike.com/play#Jose+Felic...3.1.2.49,std_dac1dbc511a142e6ac3f02ca75217a21


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## David Feliciano

Kyle Sprag said:


> LOL, for a Schutzhund expert you don't know shit about it nor Ring.....LOL :-o


The NARA decoy handbook states that the decoy should never chase the dog. It also states that the stick hits should create the illusion of violence but not actually be violent. Mondio prevents the decoy from hitting the dog with the stick. In French ring a dog can refuse to bite or run on an exercise and still move on to the next exercise. A dog can easily lose all the points for that exercise and still earn enough points to earn a leg towards his title that day.Am I wrong?


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## Kyle Sprag

David Feliciano said:


> The NARA decoy handbook states that the decoy should never chase the dog. It also states that the stick hits should create the illusion of violence but not actually be violent. Mondio prevents the decoy from hitting the dog with the stick. In French ring a dog can refuse to bite or run on an exercise and still move on to the next exercise. A dog can easily lose all the points for that exercise and still earn enough points to earn a leg towards his title that day.Am I wrong?


 
Yes, you are wrong about most of what you write. Just like your Illusion of the Big Bad guy in a sleeve and padded stick being some kind of menacing force.


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## David Feliciano

Kyle Sprag said:


> Yes, you are wrong about most of what you write. Just like your Illusion of the Big Bad guy in a sleeve and padded stick being some kind of menacing force.





David Feliciano said:


> Mondio is for dogs that can't handle stick hits, violence, or a decoy that is trying to chase them off of the field. Put your dogs on the schutzhund field where the violence is no longer an "illusion" and watch them leave the field. Ringsports prohibit the decoy from chasing the dog, but rather run from it. Schutzhunbd doesn't allow dogs that run during a protection exercise to continue with the trial and possibly earn a title.


Was I wrong about what was written above? Kyle if you are who I think you are, it doesn't take much of a menacing force to reach your dog (a dog previously on the FCI world championship podium who can no longer finish a dog in white routine.)


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Dude, I get it now, the blind guy is your DAD. My bad, I was thinking there was some worth to you, as I dig that song, but now I see that you are his talentless son.

Was it the singing lessons that made you snap ?? Considering your inability to comprehend the written word, I am not sure I should respond to you anymore. How much of this are you understanding ??

Feliz Navidad Feliz Navidad. I want to wish you a merry christmas, because you are a dumb assssss Feliz Navidad, feliz Navidad. 

I just want you to know that I am hopping around singing this. That is what a joke you are to me. The dogs are hopping around, the puppies are getting stepped on, and I knocked the fan over hopping around making fun of your dumb ass.

Feliz Navidad


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## Kyle Sprag

David Feliciano said:


> Was I wrong about what was written above? Kyle if you are who I think you are, it doesn't take much of a menacing force to reach your dog (a dog previously on the FCI world championship podium who can no longer finish a dog in white routine.)


Mondioring II world Vice Champion 2004 and 11 X passing MR III, Also FR level III and still able to post VG FR scores. He as never Not finished a DIW routine, the time I did MR DIW he was out of shape, 9 years old and hadn't trained much in the past 6 months, not his best showing for sure.

The dog was purchased in France by Johan from Van de Duvetorre for his Blood and then handled and trained by Bart Seynaeve. A real Crapper.......:roll:

He is 10 now and still going well now that I got his Feet problem fixed...


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## jason farrish

David what breed of dog do you own?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Like this idiot could ever understand what that means. I bust your balls about your dog, but I know what it looks like when one gets broken vs a curr. 

The biggest problem with discussing a lot of this stuff with people like this is that they take this shit all emotional, so when you are rational with them, they are unable to cope with the truth.

Let me guess, single mother ??


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## David Feliciano

Kyle Sprag said:


> Mondioring II world Vice Champion 2004 and 11 X passing MR III, Also FR level III and still able to post VG FR scores. He as never Not finished a DIW routine, the time I did MR DIW he was out of shape, 9 years old and hadn't trained much in the past 6 months, not his best showing for sure.
> 
> The dog was purchased in France by Johan from Van de Duvetorre for his Blood and then handled and trained by Bart Seynaeve. A real Crapper.......:roll:
> 
> He is 10 now and still going well now that I got his Feet problem fixed...


Kyle, I have seen your dog run on more than once occasion....


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## David Feliciano

jason farrish said:


> David what breed of dog do you own?



Rockweilder


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Feliz navidad, feliz navidad I want the world to know your cluuuuuuueless, I want the world to know your cluuuuuuuuuueless. LOL

What part of dogs get broken are you struggling with ?? How much pressure does your dog see since it is obviously not competing in anything ??

Explain that to me Navidad boy.


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## David Feliciano

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Like this idiot could ever understand what that means. I bust your balls about your dog, but I know what it looks like when one gets broken vs a curr.
> 
> The biggest problem with discussing a lot of this stuff with people like this is that they take this shit all emotional, so when you are rational with them, they are unable to cope with the truth.
> 
> Let me guess, single mother ??


I know what's going on with Kyle's dog. I was going to leave his dog and his mullet out of it until he started with his own personal attacks. I've met Kyle on a few different occasions and have always found him to be very polite and fun to be around. If I recall he had a pretty cool Neo/pit banddog when I first met him.


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## Kyle Sprag

David Feliciano said:


> Kyle, I have seen your dog run on more than once occasion....


 
yeh, I am sure..........believe or think what you like, Run...no, not bite....Yes a couple of times.

After 42 trials and 9 years dogs tend to learn they can make decisions, sometimes it is F-it.


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## David Feliciano

Kyle Sprag said:


> yeh, I am sure..........believe or think what you like, Run...no, not bite....Yes a couple of times.
> 
> After 42 trials and 9 years dogs tend to learn they can make decisions, sometimes it is F-it.


Semantics...and what if after he decided **** it I don't want to bite, the decoy was allowed to charge and chase him off of the trial field. Do you think the dog would have been trialed again?


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## Kyle Sprag

David Feliciano said:


> I know what's going on with Kyle's dog. I was going to leave his dog and his mullet out of it until he started with his own personal attacks. I've met Kyle on a few different occasions and have always found him to be very polite and fun to be around. If I recall he had a pretty cool Neo/pit banddog when I first met him.


 
LOL, Let's see....I have never had a Mullet, Never had a Bandog, Did have a Cane Corso but now sure how you could have ever seen him as he never traveled with me.

I am Fun to be around though 8) as I am sure you are as well.

Thing is I am a Realist, I don't care much what people think about me, my training and/or Choice of dogs or dogsport.


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## Kyle Sprag

David Feliciano said:


> Semantics...and what if after he decided **** it I don't want to bite, the decoy was allowed to charge and chase him off of the trial field. Do you think the dog would have been trialed again?


 
Depends on the dog, wiith P, yes he could trial again, he just needs to get in the groove and Feel better, sometimes Wise and Old doesn't feel like playing.


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## jason farrish

David Feliciano said:


> I was going to leave his dog and his mullet out of it until he started with his own personal attacks.


A Mullet is defined as the back of the hair being 30% or more longer than the sides or top of the hair. Kyle has long hair all over and thusly not a mullet.

http://www.mulletsgalore.com you will find that link a great resource in furthering your mullet knowledge.

Schutzhund is the breed test of choice for your chosen breed David do you feel that the working qualities of the Rottweiler have been preserved and enhanced by their participation in Schutzhund?


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## David Feliciano

Kyle Sprag said:


> LOL, Let's see....I have never had a Mullet, Never had a Bandog, Did have a Cane Corso but now sure how you could have ever seen him as he never traveled with me.
> 
> I am Fun to be around though 8) as I am sure you are as well.
> 
> Thing is I am a Realist, I don't care much what people think about me, my training and/or Choice of dogs or dogsport.


I thought I remember meeting you first three or four years ago at John Turri's place in Paso Robles, but that may have been somebody with a similar haircut. 

I was a big fan of your lucious locks at this year's FR nationals


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## Chris McDonald

Kyle Sprag said:


> LOL, Let's see....I have never had a Mullet, Never had a Bandog, Did have a Cane Corso but now sure how you could have ever seen him as he never traveled with me.
> 
> I am Fun to be around though 8) as I am sure you are as well.
> 
> Thing is I am a Realist, I don't care much what people think about me, my training and/or Choice of dogs or dogsport.


We all think we are realist. Except for those few *** optimists, there just recovering drunks


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## Kyle Sprag

David Feliciano said:


> I thought I remember meeting you first three or four years ago at John Turri's place in Paso Robles, but that may have been somebody with a similar haircut.
> 
> I was a big fan of your lucious locks at this year's FR nationals


 
I have been to John's place but not with any Bully, only Mals. I duno about Lucious, maybe 15 years ago.


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## David Feliciano

jason farrish said:


> A Mullet is defined as the back of the hair being 30% or more longer than the sides or top of the hair. Kyle has long hair all over and thusly not a mullet.
> 
> http://www.mulletsgalore.com you will find that link a great resource in furthering your mullet knowledge.
> 
> Schutzhund is the breed test of choice for your chosen breed David do you feel that the working qualities of the Rottweiler have been preserved and enhanced by their participation in Schutzhund?


The show ring was the downfall of the breed. Rottweilers are all show dogs now. People put qualities like the color of the dog's mouth before the strength of the dog's mouth. You have to play the show game just to get a breeding on a male. Stud dog's of the month are also a huge problem with the breed and a dog is ALWAYS better if its imported


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## Kyle Sprag

Curious, if you are into Rotts what do you think about these dogs? Jeff you can answer as well if you like.

http://www.redwoodkrest.com/about/index.htm


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## David Feliciano

Kyle Sprag said:


> Curious, if you are into Rotts what do you think about these dogs? Jeff you can answer as well if you like.
> 
> http://www.redwoodkrest.com/about/index.htm


I'm not really into rottweilers. I was given an adult green dog who I liked enough to train and live with. He is cool, but I wouldn't even know where to begin looking for another one nor would I desire to.


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## Sam Bishop

Ummmm.....well I was going to say "Buko is a nice dog" and then I read pages of anti SCH anti ring and I totally forgot what thread I was reading. Anyway, nice dog - like the bitework. He obviously feels that obedience/retrieving doesn't really register on his scale of important tasks to do when there might be a decoy around One of his recalls looked a lot like my dog's recall - whistle - out, guard - whistle - out, guard harder...etc Anyway, we're hoping to be trialling ourselves this year starting in March - we'll see what my guy does! 
BTW - go Jason!!! LOL - the first protection sport I ever saw was SCH and I was SO impressed. Now I'm all about ring - for myself I just love the action (bite, bite, bite) and the difference in emphasis in the obedience. Sch just is so stylized, it doesn't seem like something that I'd be able to achieve (I guess I've seen too many world champ type videos). However, it would be nice to have more (good) ring decoys around - that is probably our biggest challenge.
Sam


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## Kyle Sprag

Ah, it is all in good Fun. Some people need a Thicker Skin. I had Schutzhund friends come watch the FR Championships this year and they thought it was like watching Paint Dry, and the Horn was Gay. No Biggie, they like to give their dogs some suit bites now and then.


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## David Feliciano

Kyle Sprag said:


> Ah, it is all in good Fun. Some people need a Thicker Skin. I had Schutzhund friends come watch the FR Championships this year and they thought it was like watching Paint Dry, and the Horn was Gay. No Biggie, they like to give their dogs some suit bites now and then.


The most exciting part of the FR championships was hearing Kyle's rant about certain trainers running nude at burning man :razz:


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## Kyle Sprag

David Feliciano said:


> The most exciting part of the FR championships was hearing Kyle's rant about certain trainers running nude at burning man :razz:


 
Not only Running but Touring on a Bicycle......:smile: God Bless the Free! [-o<


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## Kyle Sprag

David,

You should come out, will be a fun time. Should be enough going on to not even need to watch the Paint! LOL Will be Pleant of Gay Azz props as well!

http://www.sincitymondio.com/Events.html


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## hillel schwartzman

Hey Jeff gotta give it to you (no punn intended) lol.. but got me hook on this sport .. Any clubs or trails near Balt. Md. OR any other simular dog sport ...
BTW thanks for posting vids i would not even had known was with out these vids also i like how you handled your dog during heeling.

I AM sure i just set myself up for a ball buster but bring it on...

everyone should post vids you can learn what to do and not to do and you get to decide ..man tecnology is the shit....


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I think it is time that you start a club out there on the east coast. I don't see any out there. You could call Agusta Farley, she is the president and I am pretty sure that she has had some people asking about Mondio out there.


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