# KNPV Box Exercise training????



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I attempted asking about this before, got nothin.....So my first focus is to corner Alice...since I see this pic of her dog on the box...anyone else is more than welcome to respond, it would be appreciated..

The dog is sent to find a remote wooden box in the woods..( I think, correct me if I am wrong). Upon finding it, the dog stands on it and barks/guards? A few questions if some people here have the time...

here is a pic...









1. Is the dog sent to find the box? If so How large an area? and does the dog track a scent to get to it, or just a random search?

2. Upon finding the box, what is the dog supposed to do exactly? ( If you have time, please explain the entire excercise...)

3. this really depends on some variables, but here goes...
What is this trained behavior? a guarding behavior? (does the dog think he is guarding the box from people) or a barking behavior (dog gets on box and barks), I assume it can be both...depending on the training and the dog...

4. How do you train for this? What is the motivation for the dog to search for the box, and guard/bark for it?

I am interested in training this...
What is the motivation for the dog (in training)? is the reward a bite on a decoy "trying to steal the box?" or a tug or ball or other reward for barking at the box until the handler gets there? or something totally different...

I have a "fairly" guardy dog that will guard a cigarette butt on the ground on her own if she so chooses, and will guard anything on command, if told to do so..I am just giving info for this post, not claiming anything or bragging or what not...

I do not even know if the guarding is a factor, just saying the dog has a fair amount of guarding behavior..if that effects the training for this excercise...making it easier or different...

If anyone has the time and it is not too difficult to explain I would greatly appreciate a description of training this for a dog that is "fairly" decent at guarding that loves to bite...she also has good search skills for stuff that she likes, and good tracking abilities..

any info would be appreciated..thanks in advance


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## Rik Wolterbeek (Jul 19, 2009)

PM send

Rik Wolterbeek


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Noooo!

Don't send a PM. This is interesting stuff. I think a lot of would like to know the answers to this.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

.A large object,usually a wooden box 45x30x15cm is hidden in a wooded area 75x150 meters.Upon command the dog has three minutes to find the object for full points,usually by airscent/tracking.Some dogs only seem to take a few seconds to get there.Once the dog gets there he has to alert the handler by continuous barking and the handler has to go to the dog.The dog does not have to stand on the box,to do this is a preference in training.The dog has to show a willingness to guard the box.After the exercise the handler heels the dog away and leaves the box behind.
To train this you can start with a young pup if you want,you can teach him to step on the box with his front feet and make him bark.This can be a frustration bark if you want.You want to teach the dog to really want to go to the box,once he understands he is to stay on the box you can tease him a little bit to get him to guard.
Trainers have their dog stand on the box with four legs sometimes because it is more difficult for the dog to eat the box that way lol.Some dogs want to kill the box and everything that comes near it.The dog is not allowed to damage the box in any way.
Once the dog has drive towards the box you can start moving the box further away.
A beautiful exercise to teach i think,can be very challenging and everydog needs a different approach.
I have seen dogs hating the exercise in the beginning and loving it later.


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## andrew tygo (Oct 29, 2010)

Ive seen this exercise taught many differnt ways. Backtying a pup and putting their food bowl on top of the box just out of there reach and in time moving the food to under the box,you can also use a ball or tug depending what your dog is crazy about. You can also hold a young dog back and attach a thin piece of string to the box and pull the box very slowly in front of the dog just far enough they cant reach it. Its important to NEVER let your dog bite the box once they do its very hard to break them of this


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> I attempted asking about this before, got nothin.....So my first focus is to corner Alice...since I see this pic of her dog on the box...anyone else is more than welcome to respond, it would be appreciated..
> 
> The dog is sent to find a remote wooden box in the woods..( I think, correct me if I am wrong). Upon finding it, the dog stands on it and barks/guards? A few questions if some people here have the time...
> 
> ...


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

btw ehmmmmm

excersize ? LOL

its meant to spell EXERCISE!

jot another penalty down for the typoqueen


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I am just a dumb American and I do not know much about KNPV training like the people who have commented on this thread.....
But what if you trained the dog to bark at the box, and not on it? Seams to me like I could start him off with a jerry can and make him crazy for that off the backtie, then maybe use a cardboard box and allow him to shred it and really get nuts about it. Then when he was crazy for the box I could put electric on the box and really frustrate him then when he tried to bite it. It looks to me like a dog would bark like an idiot then at the box out of a combination of drive and frustration.......not just for a piece of food or a toy.
But like I said, I am not a KNPV expert, Im just a dumb American.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

´cause you don´t want to learn him to bite in the box. Never learn him, means also not having to learn him to do not so ;-) If you have a bad barker the jerrycan might work, but we don't use it in trainer.
Barking the box is just another ob excercise ;-)
Standing on the box barking is your endposition, you back chain it to searching the area like Alice already explained.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

mike suttle said:


> I am just a dumb American and I do not know much about KNPV training like the people who have commented on this thread.....
> But what if you trained the dog to bark at the box, and not on it? Seams to me like I could start him off with a jerry can and make him crazy for that off the backtie, then maybe use a cardboard box and allow him to shred it and really get nuts about it. Then when he was crazy for the box I could put electric on the box and really frustrate him then when he tried to bite it. It looks to me like a dog would bark like an idiot then at the box out of a combination of drive and frustration.......not just for a piece of food or a toy.
> But like I said, I am not a KNPV expert, Im just a dumb American.



what you dont want to work on tomorow to get him to stop you dont start to teach him today mike  We/I want him on the box for a simple reason...more distance between his teeth and the box :lol:

we do have electric boxes and on occasion I have used them as well but mostly they just irritate and frustrate a dog so much that either he decides to dig up the box or he just wont even go to the box at all...

I use a simple picture....on the box...BARK....heel....follow away from box...i dont deviate and i dont change the routine and it pretty much work 99 out of 100 times...show em a picture to follow and repeat...the problem in my eyes when the dog does something out of the ordinary or unexpected is not that the dog does it wrong...its the owner doing something wrong...if you follow the same lines in black and white and enforce them where needed there should be no issue at all with any exercise, no matter how hard or strong the dog may be...it just might take longer and more effort but the line remains the same...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Am I over simplifying this by thinking it's similar to article search with a bark alert? Plus the guarding also!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Im just a dumb American.
Are you labeling yourself?


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Am I over simplifying this by thinking it's similar to article search with a bark alert? Plus the guarding also!



nope you're right  the article is a box in this case but it could be a bike or a shovel or an ax or even a person...whatever has human scent to it qualifies.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Alice Bezemer said:


> nope you're right  the article is a box in this case but it could be a bike or a shovel or an ax or even a person...whatever has human scent to it qualifies.



Thanks Alice!
I now know I have at least one KNVP exercise down. :grin: :wink:


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Am I over simplifying this by thinking it's similar to article search with a bark alert? Plus the guarding also!


eh no, yoy're not overymplifing, don't think it's very different.

eta: didnt saw alice her reply, still sleepy.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Is there anything in the box?

DFrost


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Is there anything in the box?
> 
> DFrost


a cat :-D


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## Ellen Piepers (Nov 6, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Is there anything in the box?


Sure, if the handler is a very lazy one, we try to speed him up with some beer. If the handler is too slow, it is drunk by either the dog or whoever is faster than the handler.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

David Frost said:


> Is there anything in the box?
> 
> DFrost



Nope...its just a plain boring ole box 

we can however use a feed/toy box for lack of a better word...

some trainers use a box that has a lid with a spring attached for dogs that have problems on the box like biting it ot barking orstaying close or something else...that way if they do as desired they can remote the spring and reward the dog with either a bit of food or a toy.

but for the trial for the certificate there is nothing in the box and not many people use a feed/toy box to start with (well atleast in my area lol)


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

i'll bet I can get my Jagd Terrier to bark like a machine gun on the box for an hour if I put a cat inside of it.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

mike suttle said:


> i'll bet I can get my Jagd Terrier to bark like a machine gun on the box for an hour if I put a cat inside of it.



but can you make him eat the cat as a reward mike :lol:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> but can you make him eat the cat as a reward mike :lol:


A couple of the old Terrier guys on this forum advised me to stop letting my Terriers eat their prey. But the jadg would kill the cat in a few seconds for sure (tested and proven) and would bark like an idiot until she could get to it.


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## Loring Cox (Sep 6, 2008)

When I was in narc school with Nicky, the trainer tried to use a scratch box that looked exactly like this box... I started shaking my head and tried to explain this exercise and the conflict he was about to create. He didn't really believe it until Nicky started to spin like a top because he was torn between scratching like the trainer wanted and not scratching like his KNPV training told him. We ddin't use the box again...


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I have the best box dog of all time . Around these parts my dog is known as Bingo the Box Dog .

It all started when we did a news segment on Scent Blocker hunting clothing . We hid the female reporter dressed in the stuff , in 1 of 6 boxes on a field and had Bingo find her . 

A local radio station picked up a sound bite of the newswoman saying " Look as Bingo picks up the scent of my box in the wind . " and played it over and over again . Along with me commenting " You could almost see Bingo tasting the scent in the air ." . 

Sorry not on topic but this discussion got me thinking about boxes . :-k


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jim Nash said:


> I have the best box dog of all time . Around these parts my dog is known as Bingo the Box Dog .
> 
> It all started when we did a news segment on Scent Blocker hunting clothing . We hid the female reporter dressed in the stuff , in 1 of 6 boxes on a field and had Bingo find her .
> 
> ...


Maybe not, but how in the world did anyone keep a straight face with that conversation going on, ha ha.

DFrost


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Maybe not, but how in the world did anyone keep a straight face with that conversation going on, ha ha.
> 
> DFrost


The comments she had about her box was naration added after all the filming was done so I had know idea of it . My comments were just part of an interview earlier when they asked me to describe what the dog was doing and how I knew he was in scent . 

I was relieved that the show was on a Sunday night on the lowest rated news station . I figured not too many from work would see it and find something to give me sh** about . 

When I walked into my off duty job at a bank that morning is when I found out from some of the employees who were cracking up . It went from the lowest rated TV station to one of the highest rated morning radio shows in the area and they played it over and over . They still do from time to time and I hear about it when they do . 

When the other TV show came to film their episodes they were frustrated and kept trying to get me to talk more but I wasn't saying nothing after that .


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> When the other TV show came to film their episodes they were frustrated and kept trying to get me to talk more but I wasn't saying nothing after that .



You have some will power to never speak of that womans' box again. I'm so proud of you.=D>


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Is there anything in the box?
> 
> DFrost


Human scent "ON" the box is my guess!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Human scent "ON" the box is my guess!


correct. officially the large object also can be a shuffle (sp?), rifle or breekijzer (don't know the translation, the iron bar which can break things open). Every year the KNPV office tells what that year must be used during the certiifcation days. But has been years in a row the wooden box. 


At some trials the use something else, if you never trained on it, it CAN be a difficult excercise


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> correct. officially the large object also can be a shuffle (sp?), rifle or breekijzer (don't know the translation, the iron bar which can break things open).


Selena,

It's called a breaker bar or pry bar


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thunder's early SAR article training actually created problems when I started Schutzhund tracking. Keeping him "deep nose" even when he was down wind on a different leg from the actual article was a problem. Often he would just break and run to it.
I admired his ability but it wasn't good for sport points. :lol::lol:
I think I wasted this dog on games (sport) ](*,)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thank you for the responses..It was a good read...may have questions about it later...thanks again.

I always wondered about it...and thought that a little actual training discussion might be good...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

one more question.
Is the search area contaminated with a bunch of scents? does the dog usually end up tracking some trail to the box, or randomly searching the area for the article...


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> one more question.
> Is the search area contaminated with a bunch of scents? does the dog usually end up tracking some trail to the box, or randomly searching the area for the article...


I like to see tracking in both the little article search as the searching in the woods. the dog may do both styles, as long as he finds it.

Contaminated scents arent there on purpose, but of course there will be scent of wild animals if they live in the wood where the search is or of people if the search is in a park wood area.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thank you


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

another ?

Is the exercise comparable to the search for the man? Search area the same size? 

I am guessing there are different commands for searching for the box, and for the man? 

Close in execution though? find the box...bark and guard...Find the man...bark and guard?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

for people that train this...is this a common way to train this? thanks...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKifbhfoR8&feature=player_detailpage


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> another ?
> 
> Is the exercise comparable to the search for the man? Search area the same size?
> 
> ...



same exercise different object


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> for people that train this...is this a common way to train this? thanks...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKifbhfoR8&feature=player_detailpage


Yup in full view gives you a chance to act upon anything that the dog might do that is undesirable...we use this mostly for the early dogs that have gotten a handle on the exersize but are still prown to take a nip of the box...or if we are feeling lazy and dont want to walk to far LOL...the thing is...if your dog knows the exercise theres no real need to go into the woods constantly and have him search for the object...so why not work short, in view on the field 

myself i tend to exchange the woods for field every so often just so i can keep view of what my dog is upto


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thank you Alice..
I watched a ton of videos now that I now the search words to use...I wasn't actually referring to it being in the open, but in the handlers movements.
This one was the only one I saw where the handler is using his movements in a way that appears to encourage the dog to guard the box from him...

Is this in your opinion, beneficial? or was it showing off for the camera? I am sure it does add intensity to the EXERCISE ...

Are verbal commands allowed for pick up of the dog and the heel away?
if no commands are used I could see some issues with the pickup if trained like this.:evil:

I will obviously never compete in KNPV, but it is interesting to me...

Do you use different commands for the large object search and the search for the man? I assume so...

thanks again for the information..


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> Thank you Alice..
> I watched a ton of videos now that I now the search words to use...I wasn't actually referring to it being in the open, but in the handlers movements.
> This one was the only one I saw where the handler is using his movements in a way that appears to encourage the dog to guard the box from him...
> 
> ...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks again...
I would think the risk may not be only in the dog biting the box sometimes, to have him guard it from the handler 

My dog has never seen a box, I do not know how much of an object of frustration it will be...should be interesting...but it is nice to know there are several ways to train in..I might be able to get away with it by making the guarding the game, and the frustration and intensity may come out from not being able to bite ME instead of the box...:-o 

Your info is appreciated...

I will reward you, by training for this, and videotaping it, in case I get bit by my own dog  That should be entertaining for you


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> Thanks again...
> I would think the risk may not be only in the dog biting the box sometimes, to have him guard it from the handler
> 
> My dog has never seen a box, I do not know how much of an object of frustration it will be...should be interesting...but it is nice to know there are several ways to train in..I might be able to get away with it by making the guarding the game, and the frustration and intensity may come out from not being able to bite ME instead of the box...:-o
> ...



well if you have any questions then feel free to throw em out there  things come up during training that you sometimes simply do not expect LOL like ehmmmm a dog fetching the box for you and trying to bring it to you ? had that happen once  ill be waiting for your Vid  will be fun to watch and hopefully without any added damage to yourself 

have fun training !


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I've read a number of comments about the dogs biting at the box. Mine is less inclined to bite it but she does attempt to paw at it. Some of that I attribute to me teaching her to open and close doors and flip things over with her paws. Joby I look forward to seeing your video.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

This exercise is meant to be used for policepractice. 
Even trainers in KNPV "forget" sometimes the "how and why" of some exercises in the program.

With "het revieren naar een groot voorwerp" ( searching for a large object) is the meaning that the dog should search an area and find a large object with human scent. He should "bring" the handler to the object by barking and guard the object.

Now you see people making the dog "crazy" for the object, but thats not how the exercise is meant. The dog should bark, but not necsecary to the box. It should bark to bring the handler to the found object (as evidence for example).
The dog should guard the object, but not to his handler, but towards others. Ofcourse some dogs do naturaly, but no need to practice the guarding to the handler. Thats just not handy..

With the right motivation the dog will bark better and better when his handler aproaches, because it knows "he" (or she, sorry Alice:wink will bring "his motivation".

Like I stated before, also some handlers in KNPV forget in their trainingmethodes the origanal goal of the exercise. (and just training the box, while the exercise is about large objects)


*Dick*


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> This exercise is meant to be used for policepractice.
> Even trainers in KNPV "forget" sometimes the "how and why" of some exercises in the program.
> 
> With "het revieren naar een groot voorwerp" ( searching for a large object) is the meaning that the dog should search an area and find a large object with human scent. He should "bring" the handler to the object by barking and guard the object.
> ...



well said !

to much time is spent om making the dog guard the box when in actual fact that has nothing to do with the exercise at all...its not about guarding but about putting attention to the fact that the dog has found the object and via barking makes his handler attentive on the the object and its location...nothing more or less...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks Alice and Dick 

Here is another question,
If training the dog to guard the box from someone, is th dog allowed to bite from the box? That seems like it may interfere with the object guard in some way. 

I realize this is not a complicated thing to train, it is interesting though, the variables that different dogs may bring to the exercise...

Nicole...you have trained this?


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> Thanks Alice and Dick
> 
> Here is another question,
> If training the dog to guard the box from someone, is th dog allowed to bite from the box? That seems like it may interfere with the object guard in some way.
> ...


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Thanks Alice and Dick
> 
> Nicole...you have trained this?


Joby how about you answer the question I sent to you in PM a few weeks back and I'll return the favor and respond to yours. :wink: 

Anyway, yes of course. Just about every non biting activity that the dogs do here I have worked with my dog on. As long as I'm not working her in OB, straight up repetition that is, she usually worked pretty well. It's still in early stages but I think I have the fundamentals in place for this exercise.

I started her on the box like you see the puppies do in the videos on Dick Staal's site, then I started increasing the distance first by me moving back and then eventually sending her to it. She already knew how to search/locate objects in larger areas and how to get on boxes or or other objects on command so I really only needed to add barking and distance to it. She's not a strong barker and that's been the real challenge with it that I've had so far.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Joby how about you answer the question I sent to you in PM a few weeks back and I'll return the favor and respond to yours. :wink:
> 
> Anyway, yes of course. Just about every non biting activity that the dogs do here I have worked with my dog on. As long as I'm not working her in OB, straight up repetition that is, she usually worked pretty well. It's still in early stages but I think I have the fundamentals in place for this exercise.
> 
> I started her on the box like you see the puppies do in the videos on Dick Staal's site, then I started increasing the distance first by me moving back and then eventually sending her to it. She already knew how to search/locate objects in larger areas and how to get on boxes or or other objects on command so I really only needed to add barking and distance to it. She's not a strong barker and that's been the real challenge with it that I've had so far.


I will look at my pm's now...must have missed it...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> This exercise is meant to be used for policepractice.
> Even trainers in KNPV "forget" sometimes the "how and why" of some exercises in the program.
> 
> With "het revieren naar een groot voorwerp" ( searching for a large object) is the meaning that the dog should search an area and find a large object with human scent. He should "bring" the handler to the object by barking and guard the object.
> ...



When training the dog for this is the dog trained to follow the track to the box, air scent the box or both.
Does it matter how the box is found?

Example;
I recently did a demonstration at my grandaughter's school.
My grandaughter hid in a plastic container about 10-15 mins before I sent the dog. It was in very tall grass and because of the wind direction behind him) I knew my dog would follow her "track" right to the container in this instance.
He has also been a good air scent dog and sport tracker. 
I think what I'm asking is, What is important, the method the dog uses or the results? 
If the field is clear of other scent I would think the tracking/trailing dog would have the first advantage and the airscent dog only if the wind was correct.
The good dog would use whatever was available to him.
Hope all that made sense.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> When training the dog for this is the dog trained to follow the track to the box, air scent the box or both.
> Does it matter how the box is found?
> 
> Example;
> ...


Good question Bob..at least someone else is asking a question...so it isn't all me 

Alice, I did not mean to imply that I think it will be easy, that was my way of covering my ass if IT is easy...didnt want to appear to be over-questioning what some might think is a simple exercise...
I am going to Menard's today to get the wood...There is 6 inches of snow on the ground but will start training today or tomorrow...if it not too dark when I get home from work..


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby use anything you like as the object. The KNPV prop is a wood box but I suppose you can use anything - I've used a lid top to a plastic box, a cinder block, a tuff type tote box, a floor mat. I don't really know how it's taught elsewhere but I used something I had around the house and started inside. I began in my garage and then moved it outside.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Joby use anything you like as the object. The KNPV prop is a wood box but I suppose you can use anything - I've used a lid top to a plastic box, a cinder block, a tuff type tote box, a floor mat. I don't really know how it's taught elsewhere but I used something I had around the house and started inside. I began in my garage and then moved it outside.


I like the idea of the box...
I probably have a little headstart as I did use a placeboard for a while about a year ago for a little bit.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> When training the dog for this is the dog trained to follow the track to the box, air scent the box or both.
> Does it matter how the box is found?
> 
> Example;
> ...


It certainly makes sense, Bob.

Both "methodes" are ok. And indeed, the result counts. The dog is sent without any colour or leash in the field/woods, while the handler is waiting for the dog to find the object. (by barking of the dog) and then walks in the direction of the barking. That is the use of this exercise and what i neant by the dog has got to" bring" his handler to the object.

Personaly I prefer the dog trakcking to the object, but as he "takes the scent" in the air and find the object that way is also OK. You see dogs starting to track and when they come closer, they pick up the scent in the air.

Dick


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks Dick!
VERY similar to a search dog with a bark alert.
Track until it hits the scent cone then go right to the article or person.


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## Ellen Piepers (Nov 6, 2008)

I agree very much with Dick's post on the objective of this exercise. Lots of problems I've seen with it seem to be the result of the handler forgetting about the objective, or being in too much of a hurry to show how much so called drive their dog seems to have for the object. Then all kind of frustration is added to the exercise, dogs get confused or stressed. In my opinion, if you invest well in the core of the exercise, bark alert on the dog's initiative, and not the handler's, and then building upon that, the barking will get more impressive in time anyway, as you're building up the confidence and experience of the dog. If the dog is convinced that there's something out there that is worth finding,if he has the drive, he will work out the way of searching for himself, they're better at that than we are. Also, not every dog has the same natural style, and each style has its advantages and disadvantages. For me, the main task for the handler in training is in considering where the object should be placed in order to influence the dog's behaviour instead of the method of some handlers who chase the dog to the object. I've seen dogs get corrected for leaving the track because they got the scent of the box in their nose and decided to take a shortcut. And then the handler apologizing fort the dog nott searching properly..... now who missed something, the dog or the handler?


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## jan reuvekamp (Oct 9, 2006)

Ellen Piepers said:


> I agree very much with Dick's post on the objective of this exercise. Lots of problems I've seen with it seem to be the result of the handler forgetting about the objective, or being in too much of a hurry to show how much so called drive their dog seems to have for the object. Then all kind of frustration is added to the exercise, dogs get confused or stressed. In my opinion, if you invest well in the core of the exercise, bark alert on the dog's initiative, and not the handler's, and then building upon that, the barking will get more impressive in time anyway, as you're building up the confidence and experience of the dog. If the dog is convinced that there's something out there that is worth finding,if he has the drive, he will work out the way of searching for himself, they're better at that than we are. Also, not every dog has the same natural style, and each style has its advantages and disadvantages. For me, the main task for the handler in training is in considering where the object should be placed in order to influence the dog's behaviour instead of the method of some handlers who chase the dog to the object. I've seen dogs get corrected for leaving the track because they got the scent of the box in their nose and decided to take a shortcut. And then the handler apologizing fort the dog nott searching properly..... now who missed something, the dog or the handler?


Good post Ellen


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## Ellen Piepers (Nov 6, 2008)

jan reuvekamp said:


> Good post Ellen


But too bad I can't type properly #-o


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