# Czech/DDR Dogs "Nervy"



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

The trainer that I mentioned in the other thread (regarding puppy tugs) also told me that Czech/DDR dogs tend to be nervy and can be run off easily by the helper. 

Again, I didn't argue with the guy. But I think it's pretty safe to say there are a lot of nervy/crap GSD's out there period. That's why I've invested a lot of time researching various breeders. I have found a handful of Czech/DDR breeders that seem to be pretty solid. I feel comfortable that they can provide me with a dog that, genetically, has excellent nerves, drive and the other qualities one would want in a working dog prospect. 

Please feel free to share your experiences or any "hearsay" on these dogs. Thanks.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Patrick where did this guy come from? Czech and the DDR East German dogs are not nervy. As a lot, they tend to be VERY defensive and a puppy from these lines should not be worked in heavy defense. They should be allowed to naturally develop. I know I've owned one! They can also have smaller frames than the West German stuff.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Patrick where did this guy come from? Czech and the DDR East German dogs are not nervy. As a lot, they tend to be VERY defensive and a puppy from these lines should not be worked in heavy defense. They should be allowed to naturally develop. I know I've owned one! They can also have smaller frames than the West German stuff.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Howard one of the greatest assets for introducing DDR blood into you genetics is the fact that they have amazingly strong and thick bone. Not smaller bone. Yes, I will agree to some novices opinions that the DDR OR CZECH blood might be nervy, but to me, they were bred to be Border Dogs, high defense dogs. My old lines were solid in nerve.

Bryan


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

In this article http://labontek9.com/CzechSlovakDogs.htm they talk about the West German lines being the nervy dog.

Quote from the article;
_"West Germans have always placed a lot of influence on Schutzhund. The dogs performed in a stadium not a train station. The extreme high nerves of the West German dogs can be attributed to the use of the dogs in sport. The dogs must not think for themselves. Their entire goal needs to be to please and work for the handlers."_


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I do recall about 5-10 years ago meeting quite a few nervy Czech dogs - maybe inferior ones that got brought over before people started understanding the lines and everybody wanted "border patrol dogs"

These were dogs that went into defense with zero threat and also did displacement activities when stressed (like trying to escape, climb up handler etc.) - We are not talking about simply a reactive, dominant dog but fear biter types. 

Now I have one 4+ years old, nice lines, and he is a nice dog and I have seen a lot of nice Czech dogs in the last few years. But I had to meet a few others before him and then meet him before I would consider a Czech dog.

So maybe this person had a similar experience.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I think like all other things, there are great lines and bad lines, chances are, breeders who toss dogs together just because they are DDR/Czech will have as low a success rate as stupid west German working line breeders who breed any two dogs just because they have big names in the pedigree.

Like Nancy, I remember some Czech dogs from about 15 years ago (maybe more) that were exactly as she describes. I think these dogs were brought over by unscrupulous people who bought low and sold high! As far as slow maturing lines, I think that's very true, but it's also true of many west German lines too. These days it seems like I see a lot of really good looking Czech/DDR dogs that are excellent in the sport too.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I can't speak of the Czech dogs. I can only speak of the DDR dogs. There are no more DDR dogs reguardless of what people say they have. Those lines have been bred with so many other lines that the TRUE DDR dog is gone. There are many DDR dogs in our dogs pedigrees but that don't make them a DDR dog. 

Nervy dogs are just that. They come from many different lines. They will come from lines that don't show, by the pedigree, that it's in their genetics. A lot of nervy dogs comes from learned behavior not always because of their pedigree or genetics. A pedigree, if you will, is a base line to get what you hope for, not that it will.

By saying this I too would think that TRUE Czech don't exist either.

Just my $.02


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

I'd charactarize my Czech as alert, but not nervy. Definately notices something minor but new in the environment. 

As far as nervousness or anxiety, he's been real solid, never once looked back at me for any support. Very noise tolerant.

As far as bones and size, he's 7 months, quite lean, and about 75 lbs. But I expect a real drop in the growth now.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bryan Colletti said:


> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> they were bred to be Border Dogs, high defense dogs. My old lines were solid in nerve.
> 
> Bryan


I have had folks come out for K-9 testing with West/DDR GSD and some looked bad. There wasn't alot of prey to them. Upon further review, I found that they had a heavy DDR/Czech lines. You are right, they were the Border Patrol. To get the pure lines is hard and I'm not so sure that I would want that. 

Some folks who own them want to put defense on the puppies by 8 months of age, big mistake. I work them in prey and let the natural defense come out.


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## Jose' Abril (Dec 6, 2007)

Since we are adding cents here is my .02!!! 
I feel that the so-called sport has ruined alot of lines,be it Czech,DDR,or West German.Before eveyone gets all bent out of shape let me explain;
I love Schutzhund,but to me and from what I have read,when Shutzhund first evolved it was designed to be a *TEST NOT A GAME OR A SPORT*.With that being said a large group of breeders have dilluted the breed with so much prey that the originality of the Shepherd is slowly getting washed away.I don't believe that a particular line is more nervy than the other I just feel that the lines that have had so much prey bred into them *have* and *are going to show you* some problems or as we call it *NERVY* be it Czech,West German or DDR.
I myself like them all,I see good ones in all the lines just like I see bad ones.The other thing is that so many people are *so paper driven or origin driven *that they don't see the individual dog for what he/she has to offer the breed as a whole.Looks like some people choose the dog just because of *where it comes from or how dark the sable* is VS. what the dog has to offer you for what you want it to do!!!!!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bryan here is the breeder of the Czech/DDR dogs that I used and they are having a litter in March. Sue Coppola *von der Polizei German Shepherds*. There puppy price is now $1,000. but it is good stuff and they are good people.


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

What is "nervy", seems to be a very broad statement depending on who you ask. I would also think there are more individual differences between dogs rather what lines or country they come from. The emphasis on full and calm bites in the westgerman dogs probably have led to a little higher prey, good trainability and good nerves under pressure in the SCH-breed westgermanlines. I mean, a more aggressive type of dog that chews and are less calm on the bite is not ideal for SCH, but for a servicedog that is not of such importance.

I do think that as a generalization both westgerman and maybe even more dogs from eastern europe could have mental "issues", like reservation aginst people and such. A dog that is reserved and unsocial was probably not a big deal in former Eastern Europe, and many of the competitiondogs in germany lives in a kennel when they are not training and competing, so how they interact outside that environment is maybe not so important.
Here in Sweden most dogs, even the servicedogs, live with the family and are supposed to interact well in the society, so that the dogs are not reserved and unsocial is more of an importance here.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> I think like all other things, there are great lines and bad lines, chances are, breeders who toss dogs together just because they are DDR/Czech will have as low a success rate as stupid west German working line breeders who breed any two dogs just because they have big names in the pedigree.


I agree with Susan on this. When folks just toss lines together, they have only one thing on their mind BUCKS! Many of the state police agencies in the 1980's and 1990's were sold junk by working dog breeders from Europe who saw them coming. Many of the older DDR lines were hard dogs and the same can be sasid about the old Czech Border Patrol lines. It was very hard to get quality out of the country.

This is why I like the breedings from Sue Coppola and *von der Polizei German Shepherds*. Sue works the dogs and knows working lines, something many hobby breeders do not.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

dittos to jerry's thoughts.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

The DDR dogs went away in 1989.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

So when someone says a "DDR" or "Czech" dog what they're really saying is that the dog's lineage is primarily of that origin, but not 100%, is my understand correct?

Are there dogs that are 100% DDR/Czech lines? It seems I read somewhere that they crossed a lot of those dogs.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

There are still pure Czech dogs from my understanding, but Czech dogs are not DDR dogs, they are their own little concoction. East Germany died a long time ago, the dogs have since all been crossed with other lines.


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Well, all GSDs are german from the beginning, czech dogs have many DDR-dogs from early 80s and 70s in their pedigree, and the DDR-dogs comes from german dogs but being breed more isolated from westgerman-lines since the 50s, so what is a 100% czech dog really? Is it a certain amount of generations of only czech breed dogs that must pass before we can label a dog 100% Czech, or?


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Erik, that my friend is a darn good question. I'll see what I can find out.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

as i understand it (and be advised, i don't understand much of anything), DDR/Czech dogs/lines have a LOT of common ancestors. 

i would talk to daryl ehret and check his website: he has done and does a LOT of bloodline/breeding research on both DDR/Czech breeding. i'll PM him and try to get his input on this thread.

be advised, though: he gets technical, and you may have to "hound" him to get things to where we can all "get it"


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I hope that when this is figured out there will be a lengthy heated discussion about their "drives" :-s


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Gerry make the thread and get ready to scoop up the "worms!" 
_Drives, Miss Daisy?_ _We don't need no stink'n drives.  HEHEHE_

This one is soooo much fun, because there is so much to it. I have seen dogs that had more of the Czech background to them. "Nervy" from what I saw wasn't the word. If and when they matured, they were tough behind dogs. The good thing was the owner knew the background/lines and were willing to wait and let their "babies" grow up. 

Like Clint Eastwood said, "Go ahead, make my day." Post it...


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

"Nerviness" can come from any lines IMO. 

The Czech lines have DDR back there also...not sure if there really is 100% anymore. I do think though it's very popular $$ wise to sell the "DDR" or "Czech" lines. I know from when I started breeding there are more and more "new" breeders of these lines popping up. People like that "look" and will pay alot of money for it-so unfortunately, the looks maybe more important than the actual drives, temperaments, etc. 

A friend of mine in Belgium had some interesting stories from years ago about watching DDR dogs when there was actually East Germany..dogs doing the BH routine in a muzzle


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

I guess this could be considered a "Swedish line" working GSD, many generations of only swedish breed dogs, so there are other lines than just Czech GSDs, even if the czech GSDs seems to be the hype of the moment,
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/474956.html


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

Trish Campbell said:


> "Nerviness" can come from any lines IMO.
> ...not sure if there really is 100% anymore.


Yep, I think the working lines have been integrating to the point that there will just be a "working line" GSD. Since the walls have fallen the world has changed alot and bloodlines are being shared back and forth. I think it's a good thing. Get the best out of all the lines.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Chris makes a good point, but I think it's kinda sad in a way. I like the history / cultural aspect.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Me too Ted.


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

Yeah I guess it is kind of neat to see the variations in the breed.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Actually, I'm contemplating a trip to Czech Rep and see what's happening


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

Ted White said:


> Actually, I'm contemplating a trip to Czech Rep and see what's happening


I think they are selling them all!!!


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

Especially if they see an American coming with a fat wallet


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