# Law question...



## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Lately, the neighborhood teenagers have been stealing things off my boat dock and also vandalizing my boat dock in my back yard. I have lost all kinds of stuff and they have destroyed some of my stuff down there too. Is it legal to threaten (not bite) someone with a dog while they are on MY property caught in the act of stealing/vandalizing?? Anyone ever done this? I don't think I would, but it would be nice. Thoughts?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Lets see.....you live in Texas, Right? Last I heard you could use up to deadly force to protect property in Texas. Make sure you verify that though with the local LEO's.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Yeah I have a Dallas cop that trains with me who told me in TX you can use deadly force but I obviously don't want to do that.


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

makes me want to move to texas .. I'm already a cowboys fan. now if i catch someone stealing my stuff i can ..... well i'm with you don't wanna do that, but threats would be nice..... 

good luck to you


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Just be carefull that you don't put your self in a bad situation, a dog can only take on one person.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> Lets see.....you live in Texas, Right? Last I heard you could use up to deadly force to protect property in Texas. Make sure you verify that though with the local LEO's.


 
Nevada as well...I say plug these punks with some less than lethal loads (rubber shot, rock salt, ect), let them know whats up. When I was a teenager messin around in a farmers field, I learned my lesson when I watched my buddy take a load of rock salt from a 12ga to the chest.


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

Brian McQuain said:


> I learned my lesson when I watched my buddy take a load of rock salt from a 12ga to the chest.



Ouch


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Not from Texas, but every state is different when it comes to property, weapons and self defense....

I did this before and sent a dog on some punk who stole my sons bike, then next night I was ready...my dog bit him high in the back at 1030 at night, didn't have an out, so I had to choke off and try to hog tie the SOB, that didn't work and he got away...send dog again and dog bit him OFF Property at the STOP sign at end of street, he eventually got away.

Things I learned:
1) I tested my dog, he bit, no problem
2) The idiot went to the police.....
3) How was I to prove without pictures he was actually on property? Your word against theres.....

Needless to say, deadly force is authorized and when sheriffs came, they said, why didn't you shoot?

I told them he was younger (22) and I get more entertainment sending a dog or apprehending myself.

Long story short, sometimes its best to let the LE K9 do there job and your self defense should be just that, if you have never tested your dog, how do you know he would bite.....and protect you, you could get hurt or worse...

Would I do it again.....HELL YEAH!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Lets see.....you live in Texas, Right? Last I heard you could use up to deadly force to protect property in Texas. Make sure you verify that though with the local LEO's.



As does Missouri!
AKA the Brady Report we have some of the best:twisted: worst:-o gun laws in the country. Depends on what side your on.
Getting caught breaking in a car in one's driveway will not have a pleasant outcome for the perp.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Are cases of citizens killing criminals that are committing property crimes common, or does having these types of laws make for a hell of a deterrent?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Adam Rawlings said:


> Are cases of citizens killing criminals that are committing property crimes common, or does having these types of laws make for a hell of a deterrent?



It's happened a few times here but my view of the situation isn't so much as a deterrent but as a punishment.
Kinda like the folks that say the death penalty isn't a deterrent to murder.
It wasn't ment to be a deterrent. The wording says "PUNISHABLE" with death by execution, not executed to deter others from doing the same.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Yeah my Dallas cop friend was like ...yeahhh you can send the dog but you probably don't want to do that because of all the red tape and legal repercussions. I agree. He said a dog is 'deadly force' and if I use it, or even show the dog that is just like pulling a gun. Stupid laws. OH well, I'll use the dog in self defense only *sad*


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

When I read all this confusing stuff it makes me "homesick" for that good old "jungle law" in CR.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

Brian McQuain said:


> I say plug these punks with some less than lethal loads (rubber shot, rock salt, ect), let them know whats up.
> 
> 
> > id be careful if thats the route you go. LTL rounds can still kill people if not applied correctly. always be familiar with the specific round, its intended applications, and how you should place it. if you do opt to "scare" them w/ LTL rounds be sure you have some 00 buck handy to chamber should they decide to pull thier own guns on you.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> Yeah my Dallas cop friend was like ...yeahhh you can send the dog but you probably don't want to do that because of all the red tape and legal repercussions. I agree. He said a dog is 'deadly force' and if I use it, or even show the dog that is just like pulling a gun. Stupid laws. OH well, I'll use the dog in self defense only *sad*


I guess there's always a down side but, dogs are lethal force? Just doesn't sound right. Is it lethal force to use a PSD? And if so, that would limit its' use I would think.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

chris haynie said:


> Brian McQuain said:
> 
> 
> > I say plug these punks with some less than lethal loads (rubber shot, rock salt, ect), let them know whats up.
> ...


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> I guess there's always a down side but, dogs are lethal force? Just doesn't sound right. Is it lethal force to use a PSD? And if so, that would limit its' use I would think.


 
Never heard that either....."Less Lethal" or "Less than Lethal"


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

Check the statutes for your area. Other than that, its really up to you and your level of willingness to either skirt the law or adhere to it. 
Mind you.... the first thing their lawyer will do if you do do something, is start researching Facebook, myspace, find out if you are on any forums etc. and look for just these kind of posts. While it may be somewhat satisfying to vent and or wish to provide them with a path to the afterlife it can be construed as premeditated should you take such action without irrefutable proof that you were in the right. 
Post it, and enforce it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. 

That being said...I've seen that issue fixed here in Florida by guys that spread treble hooks across their boat deck or dock and let whomever come walking barefoot or with whimpy sneakers to steal from them. Its not long before they get caught. They are easily picked up with one of those yard magnets you use for sweeping for roofing nails, thrown in a can and used again.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

That being said...I've seen that issue fixed here in Florida by guys that spread treble hooks across their boat deck or dock and let whomever come walking barefoot or with whimpy sneakers to steal from them. Its not long before they get caught. They are easily picked up with one of those yard magnets you use for sweeping for roofing nails, thrown in a can and used again.[/QUOTE]


This is a great idea....now I need to just remember they are out there and not step on them lol


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Wow, I hope they catch the bastards soon. Have you actually caught them in the act? I know what I'd do, but it would be best left to the imagination. :evil::-({|=


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Well since deadly force is out in your book (wouldn't be in mine, but hey, different strokes) how about setting them up for failure? 

They have these really cool paintball landmines you could set up, while it wouldn't kill them, it sure would make them bright and noticeable 



> A compact reusable mine powered by a standard 12 gram CO2 cartridge. It sprays 6 ounces of liquid paint or water and covers an area up to 300 square feet. The mine can be set up in a horizontal or vertical position and has an ultra sensitive trigger mechanism allowing the use of a light trip cord that can be activated up to 25 feet from the mine. It's the ultimate paint booby-trap device.


They're like $40, and it gives the cops a nice bright target to catch.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Frozen painballs are always a good item to have on hand.:idea:


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Mike Spivey said:


> Mind you.... the first thing their lawyer will do if you do do something, is start researching Facebook, myspace, find out if you are on any forums etc. and look for just these kind of posts. While it may be somewhat satisfying to vent and or wish to provide them with a path to the afterlife it can be construed as premeditated should you take such action without irrefutable proof that you were in the right.
> Post it, and enforce it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

That was my thought with a paint landmine, you don't even have to be there, you can set it up with a trip wire...then they'd have to come in your house to attack you and then you have every right to blow them away  win/win


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> That was my thought with a paint landmine, you don't even have to be there, you can set it up with a trip wire...then they'd have to come in your house to attack you and then you have every right to blow them away  win/win


 
I like you.


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

I see your point Brian. But I don't think it is a stretch. The Goetz case may be a good example. It was argued that he put himself into that position and planned the shooting in the subway, and was looking for an opportunity. This is premeditated.Though this was fought in court and won by Goetz, (he also had huge public opinion in his favor and an almost bottomless pocket in legal funds since the NRA was also interested in this as a landmark case). 
The argument for the defense in this case would be that based upon info garnered off the internet and a predetermined decision to shoot (to kill of course, since if you're going to shoot you may as well kill) those individuals, this was thought out and planned. The burden of proof then falls to the shooter, Was there reasonable imminent threat to life? Since you knew you had been robbed before, why did you continue to leave valuable items that could be stolen? Was this an ambush? Based upon some of the posts here, that advocate a shoot solution was this again a planned action? There is a big difference between carrying a weapon to protect yourself if a threat presents itself, and laying in wait with the intent on shooting to kill someone because of a frequency of actions on the part of the perpetrator. Its for the lawyers. My ultimate advice that if you decide to take the law in to your own hands......lawyer up....quick.
While I'm all for a lethal solution if the situation warrants it. I also don't think that a bunch of kids stealing stuff from a boat or dock warrants that level of force. Now if they escalate and enter the house? By all means necessary.
Mind you, the treble hook solution also has its questions from authority for setting a trap, but its easily explained as the tackle box spilled......


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Mike Spivey said:


> if you decide to take the law in to your own hands......lawyer up....quick.


 
Yup. Assess then react is key. Better be damn sure your in the right before even pulling a weapon. As far as not using lethal force on punk kids just stealing and vandalizing, I agree...hence my suggestion to properly (as Chris pointed out LTL rounds can and do kill) use LTL rounds initially. However, again like Chris said, better have some 00 or similar in case they plan on returing fire. The story I shared earlier in the post I think is a great example how it should be handled. My buddy and I where screwing around on property we had no business being on and my friend (starting high school middle linebacker at 6' 220lbs) was dropped on his back from a shot of rock salt...I think the only reason he didn't plug me was due to the fact that I was emitting a disabling, disorientating, and ridiculously high pitch/decibel girl like scream as I ran like hell, leaving my poor buddy in my wake...and that was the last time we trespassed. It works!


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

...and that friend of mine and I are still best friends.


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

Brian McQuain said:


> I think the only reason he didn't plug me was due to the fact that I was emitting a disabling, disorientating, and ridiculously high pitch/decibel girl like scream as I ran like hell!


:lol::lol:


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Why not set up a video camera? Well worth it imo. Then you can verify everything you and your dog and most importantly the no-account yahoos do.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I only mention this because there was a reference to the use of a canine as deadly force: Robinette v. Barnes, 854 F.2d 909, 102 ALR Fed. 605 (6th Cir. 1988) - "The use of a properly trained police dog to seize a felony suspect does not constitute deadly force. We also hold that even if the use of a police dog could constitute deadly force, the circumstances of the suspect's apprehension justified the use of such force in this case....."

DFrost


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> Lets see.....you live in Texas, Right? Last I heard you could use up to deadly force to protect property in Texas. Make sure you verify that though with the local LEO's.


 
I think the law in NJ is that I have to say I am sorry for not sharing. Help the scum bags load my stuff up and give them all the cash I have on me for their work.


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

Brian McQuain said:


> Nevada as well...I say plug these punks with some less than lethal loads (rubber shot, rock salt, ect), let them know whats up. When I was a teenager messin around in a farmers field, I learned my lesson when I watched my buddy take a load of rock salt from a 12ga to the chest.


I think actualy, your buddy learned a bigger lesson than you.

But, then again, there is a saying - a smart man learns from other's mistakes, a dumb one learns from his own mistakes, or something like that.


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

interesting. so what was the outcome at the end? did the thief "press charges" against you? Animal control involved? What came out of it in the end. Granted, he stopped coming over for a visit, I bet, but legally, how it ended? Or, was that it? The cops said, oh, shoot xt time, and left?



Jody Butler said:


> Not from Texas, but every state is different when it comes to property, weapons and self defense....
> 
> I did this before and sent a dog on some punk who stole my sons bike, then next night I was ready...my dog bit him high in the back at 1030 at night, didn't have an out, so I had to choke off and try to hog tie the SOB, that didn't work and he got away...send dog again and dog bit him OFF Property at the STOP sign at end of street, he eventually got away.
> 
> ...


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> I think the law in NJ is that I have to say I am sorry for not sharing. Help the scum bags load my stuff up and give them all the cash I have on me for their work.


Oh now that's funny Chris ;-) We have the same law in California :-s


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Oh now that's funny Chris ;-) We have the same law in California :-s


 
These two states attract retarts. But I think CA has most of them right now. You should get out of that state I keep hoping that is sinks into the ocean. If I was you I wouldn’t worry too much it probably won’t happen. I think the best thing is the US separate in to a few small countries. Obviously Texas will be its own. I think NJ and CA should be their own as well; they really don’t need to touch on the map to be the same country, do they?


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Adi Ibrahimbegovic said:


> interesting. so what was the outcome at the end? did the thief "press charges" against you? Animal control involved? What came out of it in the end. Granted, he stopped coming over for a visit, I bet, but legally, how it ended? Or, was that it? The cops said, oh, shoot xt time, and left?


 
They laughed, and made me post a sign on property, they beleived me over him and then questioned him and led to six different break ins, in the neighborhood and has been quiet since.

Didn't want my neighbors freaking out 1030 at night, sending a dog on a punk, but in the end, they all heard about it and loved it, needless to say, I/we have no issues in the neighborhood at all.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

David Frost said:


> I only mention this because there was a reference to the use of a canine as deadly force: Robinette v. Barnes, 854 F.2d 909, 102 ALR Fed. 605 (6th Cir. 1988) - "The use of a properly trained police dog to seize a felony suspect does not constitute deadly force. We also hold that even if the use of a police dog could constitute deadly force, the circumstances of the suspect's apprehension justified the use of such force in this case....."
> 
> DFrost


 
Maybe it's not deadly force when a cop uses a police dog but maybe it's different when a civillian uses a trained dog? I dunno. Maybe it's just Dallas. No clue. :-?


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> Maybe it's not deadly force when a cop uses a police dog but maybe it's different when a civillian uses a trained dog? I dunno. Maybe it's just Dallas. No clue. :-?


 
actually the laws are very vague in that regard.....police dogs are LE along with a certification that meet a certain standard in work, a civilian dog with a sport title means nothing, its just like a pet more or less and can be considered an accidental bite, but if on your property your ok...sometimes....


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

I remember being down south some years back and I found a bike on this street and as soon as I was gonna hop on and pedel away some dickweed comes out of his yard with his labradoodle and sends his damn dog on me !!!! Boy if I find that guy id like to have few words with him


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

andrew kurtowicz said:


> I remember being down south some years back and I found a bike on this street and as soon as I was gonna hop on and pedel away some dickweed comes out of his yard with his labradoodle and sends his damn dog on me !!!! Boy if I find that guy id like to have few words with him


Ha, found a bike. I swear it was just sitting there. I thought it was garbage. Ha.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Candy Eggert said:


> Oh now that's funny Chris ;-) We have the same law in California :-s



"On the eight day the earth tilted and everything loose fell into California!" \\/:-o:-#:twisted: :wink:


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> "On the eight day the earth tilted and everything loose fell into California!" \\/:-o:-#:twisted: :wink:


Hey Mister :lol::wink: Don't "WE" know it?! I'm waiting for the earth to tilt back to middle America ~ It's only fair that we share, isn't it?! LOL


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> These two states attract retarts. But I think CA has most of them right now. You should get out of that state I keep hoping that is sinks into the ocean. If I was you I wouldn’t worry too much it probably won’t happen. I think the best thing is the US separate in to a few small countries. Obviously Texas will be its own. I think NJ and CA should be their own as well; they really don’t need to touch on the map to be the same country, do they?


Don't get me started Chris :lol::lol: I could so easily go "there". If Texas becomes it's own country, I'd move there! Until then we suffer from Californication [-(


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If it tilts again California is gonna snap off at the fault line. :razz: :-D
We are happily keeping middle America a secret! :-D 
8-[8-[.............New Madrid fault and all! :-D8-[8-[ :wink:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

andrew kurtowicz said:


> I remember being down south some years back and I found a bike on this street and as soon as I was gonna hop on and pedel away some dickweed comes out of his yard with his labradoodle and sends his damn dog on me !!!! Boy if I find that guy id like to have few words with him


It must not have been one that fell off the bike tree. That particular bike must have actually belonged to someone. I guess I fail to see why "being down south" has any distinction as to where you would steal a bike. Do they leave them laying around, up north, for people to hop on and pedal away?

DFrost


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Do they leave them laying around, up north, for people to hop on and pedal away?


David I think that is what happened when 'they' lifted 4 bikes from my family. They were just laying around in a locked garage waiting for someone to pedal away on them. 

Some nights I'd like to set up a portable schutzhund blind in the garage and jump out on them like a troll and beat the bejesus out of them with a Sjambok or a short piece of braided hose. 

So yes we leave bikes laying around up 'North' too! It's not just a 'Southern' phenomena.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

As David said in Robinette vs Barnett dogs were held to NOT be lethal and this has been upheld at least twice by the Supreme Court so it should apply nationwide. 

As to the OP's question about Texas defense & dog laws; _"Yeah my Dallas cop friend was like ...yeahhh you can send the dog but you probably don't want to do that because of all the red tape and legal repercussions."_ 

I was privileged to be a consultant to Tx. Rep. Pat Haggerty when the Texas legislature wrote it's first viscous dog laws. Rep Haggerty saw the need to include common sense rules that allow Texans to use their dogs in defense of their property or lives without having to worry about legal BS from bad guys. He put in specific language that allow dogs to be used for defense of self or property, so tell your Dallas cop friend there is no need to sweat the red tape issues.

The only other thing is, like someone else wrote, knowing how to use a dog in a threatening situation is as important as training the dog in the first place. You might consider getting into some PP dog Handler Tactics classes. We offer Tactical training in K9 Pro Sports seminars, but I am sure there are many places you can get that sort of training. 

Right now this is still a common sense state when it comes to punks & pervs, so protect your self with a worry free mind.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Butch Cappel said:


> Right now this is still a common sense state when it comes to punks & pervs, so protect your self with a worry free mind.


See I just knew I loved Texas =D>


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> If it tilts again California is gonna snap off at the fault line. :razz: :-D
> We are happily keeping middle America a secret! :-D
> 8-[8-[.............New Madrid fault and all! :-D8-[8-[ :wink:


When that happens we'll be the new Hollywood type island resort floating out in the Pacific Ocean :-$ And middle America will be the NEW West Coast


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Butch Cappel said:


> As David said in Robinette vs Barnett dogs were held to NOT be lethal and this has been upheld at least twice by the Supreme Court so it should apply nationwide.
> 
> As to the OP's question about Texas defense & dog laws; _"Yeah my Dallas cop friend was like ...yeahhh you can send the dog but you probably don't want to do that because of all the red tape and legal repercussions."_
> 
> ...


I wouldn't be crowing to loud about having your K9 Pro Sports training up some people biting dogs prolly sooner than later your ass will be in a sling and it might not matter ware you live.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Do they leave them laying around, up north, for people to hop on and pedal away?
> 
> DFrost


I think so David :-?. I used to summer in WI after I moved to AK. And sometime in the middle of the night while cruising around on the dark country roads we found a bike on the side of the road. Who'd just wander off into a corn field and leave their bike? I dunno, but my friends thought just that... that someone had left it there for someone to pedal away on. In this case, it went right into the back of the truck.

NSEW it really doesn't matter, it happens. I don't get it either way. But then again, I've never had a need or desire to steal anything except my grandma's pennies and a few pieces of Bazooka gum when I was 6 but that's another story...


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Actually Mike we have had our K9PS certification used twice in legal matters and it was precisely that training that impressed the judge and an insurance company to find in favor of the dog. Proper training is always a positive no matter _"ware"_ you live


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David said;
" Do they leave them laying around, up north, for people to hop on and pedal away?"

Hell, they don't even have to be laying around. When I was a kid I had two stolen from me while I was still riding them." That really sucks! :lol:


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> When I was a kid I had two stolen from me while I was still riding them." That really sucks! :lol:



Bob,

Is that why you got into law enforcement, to prevent people from stealing your stuff?


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

We have what's called " Minnesota Nice " up here . Means they leave the sh**** bike they came there on to steal yours .


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Nashville, oddly enough, is starting a program of loaner bikes. They are going to have specific markings and will be available for people to borrow. I don't really expect the program will last too long, ha ha.

DFrost


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Nashville, oddly enough, is starting a program of loaner bikes. They are going to have specific markings and will be available for people to borrow. I don't really expect the program will last too long, ha ha.
> 
> DFrost


We had it here years ago . Ugly yellow bikes they figured noone would steal . They were wrong . 

Now Minneapolis has spots where you can rent a bike . I'm sure that will be a complete failure too , only they spent much more money and got better bikes .


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> Lately, the neighborhood teenagers have been stealing things off my boat dock and also vandalizing my boat dock in my back yard. I have lost all kinds of stuff and they have destroyed some of my stuff down there too. Is it legal to threaten (not bite) someone with a dog while they are on MY property caught in the act of stealing/vandalizing?? Anyone ever done this? I don't think I would, but it would be nice. Thoughts?


Back to the OP....

I am under the firm belief not to threaten anyone with your dog, unless you fear for your life or immediate safety... around your property especially.

If these thugs are vandalizing and thieving, it is an easy jump to attempting to poison your dog...dogs get poisoned all the time...

I would opt for the video camera. They are cheap enough to buy and install these days...

If they are just kids then you especially don't want to threaten them with a dog...parents don't like that too much either...(dogs get poisoned all the time, not just from kids either....) and parents call cops on people that threaten their kids, or take matters into their own hands.

I would also never threaten someone with a dog if I was not prepared to let the dog bite someone...

If the person being threatened is not scared by the threat, what happens next...??? they hurt your dog or hurt you...If you are going to confront a criminal, you better be ready for him to not run away....

Kind of like running out with an unloaded gun to scare someone off, only to find out they have a gun too...with bullets in it...

might make you a target for more serious incidents...try the video camera..record it...turn it in....


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Bob,
> 
> Is that why you got into law enforcement, to prevent people from stealing your stuff?



ME? LE? I'm a retired Lithographer. 
I wanted to go into LE a couple of yrs after I got married. Wife said my temperment wasn't suited for it and she'd hit the bricks if I did. ........... :-k Did I make a mistake? :lol::wink:
I'm just a nice old granpa now! :twisted:


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

The only problem I might see with a video camera is that, while this is an assumption, these little punks are doing their damage at night. How clearly can a reasonably priced video camera get the suspects in the dark with minimal lighting? If it has night vision, it's not going to be reasonably priced I wouldn't think.

Points to ponder.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

http://www.amazon.com/Swann-Maxi-Night-Security-Camera/dp/B000BVZRZQ

Dunno if it actually works but the price seems reasonable to me


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Yes I believe we are going to install cameras. I told my husband that I fear they will just take bats to my new cameras though. Decisions decisions.... just two days ago they got me again, this time they stole the damn gas cap off my boat's gas tank. It was bolted on so it must have been hell getting it off. *pissed*


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> yes i believe we are going to install cameras. I told my husband that i fear they will just take bats to my new cameras though. Decisions decisions.... Just two days ago they got me again, this time they stole the damn gas cap off my boat's gas tank. It was bolted on so it must have been hell getting it off. *pissed*


 
test your training, send the dog!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> Yes I believe we are going to install cameras. I told my husband that I fear they will just take bats to my new cameras though. Decisions decisions.... just two days ago they got me again, this time they stole the damn gas cap off my boat's gas tank. It was bolted on so it must have been hell getting it off. *pissed*


The Bastards! What did the police say? Is there a place where you could mount the camera where they can't reach it? People like this really chap my ass. :evil: I would def. send the dog on them if I saw them in the act. If I ever catch someone stealing from us, the gate will accidentally open.. VERY FAST while we're calling 911 and getting the gun. lol I guess "Catch" is the operative word here. :roll: Good luck, I hope this ends for you soon.


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## andrew kurtowicz (Nov 19, 2008)

David Frost said:


> It must not have been one that fell off the bike tree. That particular bike must have actually belonged to someone. I guess I fail to see why "being down south" has any distinction as to where you would steal a bike. Do they leave them laying around, up north, for people to hop on and pedal away?
> 
> DFrost


just busting jodys chops


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Diana Abel said:


> The Bastards! What did the police say? Is there a place where you could mount the camera where they can't reach it? People like this really chap my ass. :evil: I would def. send the dog on them if I saw them in the act. If I ever catch someone stealing from us, the gate will accidentally open.. VERY FAST while we're calling 911 and getting the gun. lol I guess "Catch" is the operative word here. :roll: Good luck, I hope this ends for you soon.


I am soooo pissed off because it rained and it got into the gas tank and now my boat won't start. Either that or they purposely put water in there. This is a brand new boat, and a nice one too. I have no idea what I have done to deserve all this crap. I am going to file a report I guess to save my ass later if I have to beat someone to a bloody pulp.


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> I am soooo pissed off because it rained and it got into the gas tank and now my boat won't start. Either that or they purposely put water in there. This is a brand new boat, and a nice one too. I have no idea what I have done to deserve all this crap. I am going to file a report I guess to save my ass later if I have to beat someone to a bloody pulp.


 
WHOA!!!! That really sucks. Yeah, file that report and if it were me, I'd be turning all of it into the Ins. Co. Not sure what order to do it in but I would guess the Police report first so you can provide it to the Ins. Co just in case they want it, but I'm sure you've already thought of that. I've always said ya can't have anything nice. Some bastard is either gonna steal it or mess it up. ](*,)


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Have you considered an infrared trail camera like hunters use to check deer trails and scrapes? They can take still photos or video. Only problem is figuring out how to mount them so that they're not stolen or damaged.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)




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## Kirstyn Kerbo (Apr 3, 2010)

Candy Eggert said:


> Oh now that's funny Chris ;-) We have the same law in California :-s


Yeah, pretty much.

Sucks.


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## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

You can also get those high-powered LED lights that turn on via a motion sensor. :grin: Nothing freaks out punks more than when a light suddenly turns on when they're trying to do something (except a big dark dog chasing them).


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> The only problem I might see with a video camera is that, while this is an assumption, these little punks are doing their damage at night. How clearly can a reasonably priced video camera get the suspects in the dark with minimal lighting? If it has night vision, it's not going to be reasonably priced I wouldn't think.
> 
> Points to ponder.


THEY DO MAKE THESE THINGS CALLED MOTION SENSOR LIGHTS AS WELL.. and the newer cameras, mid-range price/quality are pretty good in even lower lights...


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Might as well go whole hog....hook up a loud ass siren to the sensor as well. That'l' get em steppin...after they clean their britches first.=D>=D>


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> THEY DO MAKE THESE THINGS CALLED MOTION SENSOR LIGHTS AS WELL.. and the newer cameras, mid-range price/quality are pretty good in even lower lights...


All well and good, and I have one on my front porch, but even with a good quality camera (in the $400 range, not mid-range on price/quality), the pictures come out blurry with the limited fake lighting. I've tried getting pictures of the fox in my yard, who sets off my motion sensor light, but they're either too dark or too blurry.
It was a question, don't get your panties in a knot. I don't know about it, but it was a thought I had.


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

Maybe a couple of these around the property















or


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

I have the one that says 'TO HELL WITH THE DOG, BEWARE OF THE OWNER' and it's a picture of a gun pointed at you. Muahahah...but alas it does no good


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

Here's the last sign I saw I liked. Also, maybe if you can do some "visible" training where you have your dog take down a helper or two with the neighborhood kids being able to see that would get the word out if you live in a neighborhood that has kids, chances are it's some of them. If not, then yeah, it must seem like no consequences to them. (Errors of a misspent youth on my part)


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