# Chattering Teeth....



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Anyone ever seen a dog do this in the bite work? What's your spin on it? I see it as a possible nerve issue and nothing that can't be worked with in a young dog. Give us your thoughts group and THANKS! :-k


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Chattering teeth is a sign of high arousal/excitement. It is not directly linked to nerve issues.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Anyone ever seen a dog do this in the bite work?


Nope what breed of dog is it?


Howard Gaines III said:


> I see it as a possible nerve issue


Yup


Howard Gaines III said:


> nothing that can't be worked with in a young dog.


 Why bother is there something special the dog has to offer? 


Howard Gaines III said:


> Give us your thoughts


Get a good dog that doesn't have any baggage.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I've seen pups and young dogs do this, for example when you take something from them, like a tug or your favorite pair of gitch that you left on the floor, never seen in an adult dog though.

I wouldn't think of it as a nerve issue in a young dog, more of a frustration depending on what is happening to make the dog do it.


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Anyone ever seen a dog do this in the bite work? What's your spin on it? I see it as a possible nerve issue and nothing that can't be worked with in a young dog. Give us your thoughts group and THANKS! :-k


 
My previous GSD did some chattering. He was being trained to do a silent guard and he would chatter. You can kind of see it in this video 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKmB2Xcp9J8 
Is that what you're talking about? He was 14 months old in the video. I thought it was funny and just laughed it off to him being a crackhead junkie. Now hopefully he's finding crackhead junkies :wink: 

Laura


----------



## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

I agree with Anne. A very high excitement.
But that is taking in everything else the dog is doing at the time. If you were just playing and took the ball away, the dog knows you have a toy, etc. I see that a lot.

Maybe just the cases I have seen..., but I would agree it's not a nerve issue.

One of my retired females does that when she is getting ready to be worked in Obedience. She also does not have a 'nerve issue'.

Julie


----------



## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

I forgot to answer the OP.
I have only seen it in bitework when something is being denied. (i.e. a bite by heeling away from the helper etc.)
Then I just see it as the dog loading and leaking into that behavior..

Julie


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Julie Blanding said:


> I forgot to answer the OP.
> I have only seen it in bitework when something is being denied. (i.e. a bite by heeling away from the helper etc.)
> Then I just see it as the dog loading and leaking into that behavior..
> 
> Julie


I agree with you here Julie,
I have several dogs who do this when they are very excited and being denied something they really want (food reward, ball, or a bite) It is usually seen during obedience in the bite work. I also am starting to believe it may be a genetic trait because Endor does this as well and a large % of his offspring do it also. While Arko does not do it and none of his offspring I've seen do either, yet both dogs produce very similar drives and nerves in their puppies. They never do it during bite training sessions when they are allowed to be out of control, I only see it when working on capping, or as you stated, when healing away from the decoy and they are anticipating being rewarded with a bite.
They will also do this in my living room if I withhold a piece of a hotdog, or if I show them a ball and then hide it in my pocket. I dont think it is a sign of bad nerves at all, rather I believe it is a way of leaking an excessive amount of drive and excitement. (Most stud dogs do the same thing when a bitch in heat is nearby)
Without seeing the above mentioned dog it is hard to tell for sure, but my bet is that the dog will also show the same behavior in other areas where he is over stimulated and ready to explode with excitement.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

High excitement, but aren't emotions (excitement, anger, fear, etc controlled by nerve threshold? 
I'd have to see the dog in order to make a guess on how much is "nerve issues"


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> High excitement, but aren't emotions (excitement, anger, fear, etc controlled by nerve threshold?
> I'd have to see the dog in order to make a guess on how much is "nerve issues"


I believe that for sure aggression, fear, etc are controlled by nerves, but i am not convinced that prey drive and excitability are controlled by nerves, or lack of. Some of the best dogs I have ever seen in (in both bitework and environmental stability) have demonstrated this same type of behavior when they were stimulated in prey drive.


----------



## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

I've seen it with dogs that I've trained doing OB. I wouldn't call it a nerve issue. I saw it as more of an excitement behavior. They would just hold what they had until the reward and release came, it was as if they were saying HURRY, HURRY, I don't know how much longer I can wait.


----------



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Excitement not a nerve issue. Look into the eyes. They will tell you so much. They will be wide open not wanting to miss the slightest movement, ready to pounce. Body will be ridged and ready. A dog with bad nerves will be showing differently.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Excellent point Jerry!
Pretty much on top of my comment about needing to see the dog in order to make a guess. 
You just put it all in a nutshell.


----------



## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

We have a young female that chatters a bit. I take it as a displacment behavior for all the energy. She loves to bite and has ball drive through the roof. She's an amp'd up ball of energy and I'm hoping that this will translate to what I want to see from her. Some dogs spin and others rock back and forth, a little chatter dosent bother me as much.


----------



## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

you see chattering a LOT with males that are around females in heat. When we were prepping to collect semen for AIs, we would often hold the female close to get the male worked up (made collection easier :-o) and I saw a lot of chattering. I always thought it was funny, never thought of it as a nerve issue.


----------



## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

I don't remember the organ's name.. something like Corpus blah blah blah.
I think when the male chatters around a female he is trying to take the scent and spread it over that organ to further analyze the bitch in season. I think I saw that on the discovery channel or some place like that.

What I am talking about is more of a way high energy gets channeled. I see it with high intensity or desire of something like a bite, ball, food as discussed before. 

Julie


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

My males all chatter teeth when they are checking out the in season bitches. I always find it amusing because they get a really stupid look in their face like they are totaly somewhere else like in la la land. Don't think it is nerves but REALLY wanting whatever is there. For some it is a female, for others it may be something less obvious.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Julie Blanding said:


> I don't remember the organ's name.. something like Corpus blah blah blah.
> I think when the male chatters around a female he is trying to take the scent and spread it over that organ to further analyze the bitch in season. I think I saw that on the discovery channel or some place like that.
> 
> What I am talking about is more of a way high energy gets channeled. I see it with high intensity or desire of something like a bite, ball, food as discussed before.
> ...


Is that the vomeronasal organ? Interestingly enough, it's almost impossible to find anatomically in a dog. Our old as dirt Romanian anatomy professor said he almost never could find it, but if you make histological sections in that area, you can find the cells. I would suspect the chattering is more excitement than spreading it out. Rams and stallions are real good at doing the Flehmen response, but it's pretty common in other species.

My female Malinois doesn't chatter for a tug or toy, but will chatter for her food while she (and the other dogs) are in the down stay for their food. You can hear it clear across the house.


----------



## Kevin Powell (Aug 15, 2008)

My mal does this teeth chattering thing when I first get home from work or go outside to greet him after being away for a while. The minute I step outside I hear his teeth begin to chatter until he settles down. He's never done it during bitework but I would chalk it up to excitement. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Kevin Powell said:


> My mal does this teeth chattering thing when I first get home from work or go outside to greet him after being away for a while. The minute I step outside I hear his teeth begin to chatter until he settles down. He's never done it during bitework but I would chalk it up to excitement. Nothing more, nothing less.


Kevin, we have a young Malinois male that has been doing it in the bite work. It is 9 months old, it has good prospects, and is not thinking the decoy is in heat! My nerve point was more of one focusing on "not sure" rather than weak bite work nerves, not a blow away hard hitter/still learning the game. He was a kennel dog for many months and needs to be bonded with the new handler. Jay, you are on the money, I think. Can't wait to bite but not real sure either.

Some outstanding points from this group, staying on topic, and many thanks for the vision you have given. \\/


----------



## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

I was just at a 3 day agility seminar and saw it there in a couple of border collies while they were waiting to do some work.


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I have seen a nervous dog chattering teeth in grooming, and it is a very different look. My mals chatter teeth when really excited, wound up and blocked from doing something. Like sit and focus for a tug reward. I am guessing excitement and/or displacement behavior. Actually the one that I think has weaker nerves does it less than the more confident and higher drive one.

The look while smelling the grass where another dog has marked (or bitch-in-heat pee?) is also different, more like lip smacking than chattering. Along with glazed-looking eyes, drooling, and plenty of foam or spit bubbles. Neither has ever been bred so they're reacting instinctively, and for whatever reason, their packmember bitch-in-heat gets way less of a reaction than strange dog smell. Go figure.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Anna Kasho said:


> I have seen a nervous dog chattering teeth in grooming, and it is a very different look. My mals chatter teeth when really excited, wound up and blocked ...reacting instinctively, and for whatever reason, their packmember bitch-in-heat gets way less of a reaction than strange dog smell. Go figure.


Anna kind of reminds me of the old fashion teeth, tighten the spring and watch'em chatter!


----------

