# Conflict



## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Got a call today from someone looking for some help with the following problem.

He has a 5yr old intact male Bouvier. The dog has always been very obedient and is ready for his BH. He has not had any schtzhund training other than the OB.
Recently the dog started showing aggressive behavior to anyone trying to leave the house or say a room. So much so someone has to hold the dog when the other try's to go out.
The dog he says has always been good with staying in a down stay so he started trying that. But he now breaks that stay to charge at the person leaving.

He doesn't want to get rid of the dog and says this is the only issue with it. Anyone ever expercienced this before?


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Leadership issue would be my guess, dog is trying to control "his" people - something in the way they live with dog and handle him. If this was one of mine, the first time he tried that would be his last... And I would be willing to bet this didn't start suddenly, although they might have missed the early warning signs. Also - Dog has had some time to practice that behavior, and frustrated by holding back, which makes it harder to stop.

In any case, I am not qualified to advise anyone how to deal with it.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

anyone who could offer a fix based on this amount of info relayed third party via a phone call would be one heck of a "dog person" imo 
..but fwiw, anytime i hear "this is the only issue", especially for an adult dog, i take it as a red flag and look deeper

is the owner the type who would actually follow advice relayed back in the same way ? i would tell em to get an internet connection and post the problem with some background and maybe send a vid, but even a vid might not show the the issue completely; but instead just show a "result"

if laying on OB doesn't solve a behavior(aggression) problem there are always more issues involved that usually took time to develop. rarely pops up overnight as a "this is the only issue" problem, imo, so if they are your friend maybe you could help em if they let you dig some more


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

fwiw, i didn't see Ann's post til i posted mine, but clearly we are on the same page here ... i think 

people often seek help after they see the "result" of a problem they didn't see developing 
- and some trainers don't care "why" the result happened 
- but more than one way to skin the problem i guess


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

I know a guy who had trained his female GSD to NOT allow an uninvited person to leave his house without his presence. Apparently a couple of people accidentally made their way into his home only to stay for a while waiting for him to return. Supposedly the dog would have attacked them if they had actually tried to leave. 

Have any of you ever heard of such a thing?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I agree with Rick on assessing this third party, over the internet, etc, but here is how I would start to sort this out having done a couple of similar issues. Find out the answers to a couple questions, do a neutral area visit and an on site visit with some of the thoughts below in mind and go from there.


> He has a 5yr old intact male Bouvier. The dog has always been very obedient and is ready for his BH. He has not had any schtzhund training other than the OB.


 *Is the OB really that good?* I can answer this one without being there, no, or else it would hold a down under the distraction of a person leaving the room. The BH means that the dog will do a specific set of tasks on a field. One of the tasks is not "person leaving the room". Practice the OB in the house as the dogs learn in context. Also, "ready" and passed a BH are two different things. One is an opinion, the other is meeting a set of standards with a judge watching. Lots of OB in the house.



> Recently the dog started showing aggressive behavior to anyone trying to leave the house or say a room.


What behavior is the dog showing? Did it put someone in the hospital trying to stave off an attack? Any blood at all? Did it even connect with a person using it's teeth? Are they misreading what the dog is doing? 

*What is the dog doing here, and is the percieived behavior really a dangerous behavior?* People talk about their dogs "fighting" at home in obedience assessments. A majority, no blood is drawn, then there is really nothing usually to worry about. (not to say this can't progress to more, but it's natural for dogs to play, bark and bite each other with some inhibition) Someone who has never seen a shooting suicide, a gunshot wound or a good MMA fight might think a bloodying their own nose while opening a can of pickles is pretty traumatic. People have a different perspective about things, and react accordingly. 




> So much so someone has to hold the dog when the other try's to go out.


We do a form of this in bite work to frustrate a dog. Might want to stop that and come up with another solution for prevention. IE hot dogs for downing on a strong back tie (prevent any bites) in the room in question is how I would start this when the OB is fixed. Make the dog realize two things. 1 everyone is a hot dog vendor if I offer appropriate behaviors. 2 Obedience is a demand, not a request. 

Find out if the dog is going to do a bite related activity. This is contrary to what might seem right, but is an option to teach the dog to bite. In some cases it's easier to put the biting behavior on command to control it in the unwanted situation. Not such a hot idea in some cases.


He doesn't want to get rid of the dog and says this is the only issue with it. Anyone ever expercienced this before?[/QUOTE]

Find a really good trainer. The owners probably need it more than they imagine. Communication is a talent that some trainers have. Some don't. People don't hear what you are telling them, in some cases, and don't relate what is actually going on in others. I have worked with a lot of clients that are a breath of fresh air in their communication in both hearing and speaking, and some that are not. Both hearing and speaking are an important part of the process to get to a good result.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> Got a call today from someone looking for some help with the following problem.
> 
> He has a 5yr old intact male Bouvier. The dog has always been very obedient and is ready for his BH. He has not had any schtzhund training other than the OB.
> Recently the dog started showing aggressive behavior to anyone trying to leave the house or say a room. So much so someone has to hold the dog when the other try's to go out.
> ...


 What's the lines, what's the breeder say? I have Bouviers and don't see this problem. Leadership...good point as it takes one to own one!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maybe there are no other problems, cause the dog runs the family, and they dont realize it....that is a possibility too

I think Dave summed it up pretty good, as well as Rick.

I dont see why someone would have to physically restrain the dog, if the OB was there.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Teach the dog "this is what we do" .... "this is what we do not do" 

Sorry but thats all I see in it...... 

If your having to hold the dog back then you haven't trained the dog.


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Pretty much sums up a lot of what I just talked to them about. But the dog is rock solid in OB up to this issue.

The one thing not mentioned here is what possibly started and increased the behavior. For sure I wouldn't hold him or put him in a down stay to watch someone leave. To me it would add frustration and increase the behavior.

For those that may want more info.... The dog only gets this aggitated if the owner is leaving for say work. In other words he has tried to repeat this when he is off. 
By going out and coming back in after a short period the dog is fine. If he goes out a different door the dog starts the behavior but only guards the door most often used. 
So I have him looking at.......... a) what about the morning routine is totaly different than what he does on a weekend.
b) Don't hold him, don't put him in a down stay. The more he breaks it to do this the worse it will get. 
c) Back up and lets break down when does the behavior really start. Is it when the keys are picked up, is it the work clothes, I'm sure its going to be a very small detail that was missed and never corrected and now its full blown.

Howard can I PM you?


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

Check dogs thyroid. He is the right age and breed for it to go whonky...and one of the results can be strange or aggressive behavior. If its ok...find a real trainer .


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

thank you i got the same addvice earlier


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i still think this will probably go nowhere relaying info back and forth...
but 
stop talking about OB ! 
this has nothing to do with OB ! 
OB will not fix this problem !
when you see a behavior problem find out why the behavior started and was reinforced and Unreinforce it !

i don't know why people think OB when they deal with a behavior problem such as this; maybe because that is the only way they seem to be able to get a dog to "behave" is to shout down or sit ??

this has been allowed to develop gradually for as long as the dog has been with this owner and was not SEEN; he can't read his dog as well as the dog can read him, but regardless, now the owner needs to change the way he lives and allows the dog to live with him

more importantly, the way i read it, what you posted in you last "update" is a morph of how you stated the problem in the OP.....first it was "anybody" and aggressive behavior, and now it is the owner leaving for work and you're looking for a "trigger", but still not an OB issue in my mind and OB shouldn't be used to try and fix anything

adjust the basic living relationship between owners and their dogs and a lot of behavior problems magically disappear on their own 
and i'll bet the dog used to leave when people left more then it does now.....could be as easy as some "DEvelcroing" if u catch my drift 
...but i'd like to hear details of how much aggression is involved since i think you also have added the words "guards the door" in your last update 

hope it's not a med issue and doubt that it is 
btw, have they had this dog all five years and suddenly it can't handle being left by itself ???? when the owner goes to work or when ANYONE leaves ????
any decent pet owner (assume that's what this dog is) should be able to LOOK at their dog and get the message across to them YOU are going out and THEY are not !! without any down stays get backs or any other OB "commands"
- it is one of the most simple mistakes people make; NOT teaching their dog how to stay behind. you should be clear when it's going with you and just as clear when it's NOT.....then you never have this problem and don't need to look for "triggers" 

otoh you could always tell em to lay down the law, be a pack leader and smack it silly and then they can start working on other OB problems


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

The dog sounds insecure and separation anxiety is escalating. How are the folks in the house getting along ?


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

rick smith said:


> i still think this will probably go nowhere relaying info back and forth...
> but
> stop talking about OB !
> this has nothing to do with OB !
> ...



Rick. We still aren't clear on anything about this. Is the dog biting, have I missed that, or is he charging up to play? Has he bit anyone? This could be no worse than a dog jumping up on someone, being a little unruly, unless I missed something. Your early post about it being difficult to tell third hand is the truth, but...

Teaching a mutually exclusive behavior, IE a down stay, when you are leaving, which you mentioned, does treat the symptom and does exactly what you said to do, unreinforce the behavior. Reward the dog for the down. Decondition it to whatever stimulus is causing the other behavior. I agree to try and find out what is causing it, but why not treat it with a down, if that works until you figure it out? Shouting sit or down isn't OB. It's shouting.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Dave: nothing wrong with what you suggest
and this is probably not a big problem at all

i just read "great OB" from the start, but then OB probs and couldn't hold a simple down when somebody leaves, and then some more OB advice, then a slightly diff description of the problem in the update, etc etc

i'm overanalyzing this and trying to give an opinion on something i'm not clear on myself, but was just trying to take some OB out of the picture and get the owner to look at the problem differently as others have suggested, with better leadership but not to the extreme of slapping it silly for "suddenly" showing normal pack drive

i'm sure everything will be cleared up in the next update ....


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> The dog sounds insecure and *separation anxiety is escalating*.



You can tell this over the internet?

I don't disagree with this as a possibility, but....

1. Separation anxiety as one possibility. *likely*

2. How about the dog is confident, not insecure and doesn't like the owners company. Prefers him to be gone all day, and shows the most aggression as he is leaving for work as he is getting the best result for himself. Just like a dog showing great aggression on a guard, because he knows if he does, he'll get the reward he wants, a bite. He picked the reward, and now he is manipulating it. *Unlikely in my opinion but possible.*

3. Maybe he actually has picked up a marker for the owner leaving all day which leads to the owner coming home and feeding him. Key jingle=gone=return and food. If he is only going to be gone a short period, he doesn't show the behavior, because he wants his next feeding. In fact, this is aggression/or unacceptable exuberance over his food. *More likely* I opine.

4. The dog enjoys interacting with the owner and the owner stops and spends more time to try and stop the behavior of jumping. Gives in to what the dog wants, by staying, petting/beating, puts him in a down, etc, interacts.. Dog in this case manipulates the reward, praise or hitting = more interaction, socially the dog is driven to do it more and more. *Most likely* I opine.

Now there are four possiblities listed. Any more? 

FYI a crate will address the symptom/negatives on all four, as will good OB. I agree with Rick here to find the cause, and have that as a goal. More importantly since dogs are conditioned response animals, and reward themselves as fast and easily as they can, with what they see value in, the sooner you break the cycle, the better off they (and their humans) will be in most cases.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> You can tell this over the internet?
> 
> I don't disagree with this as a possibility, but....
> 
> ...


No, I can't tell this over the internet, I can say though that it does sound like it. The question was less demanding of an actual answer but was more intended as food for thought for the OP, hence why I decided no attempt at offering advice at all.

A crate as well as good ob may well address the symptoms as you state....and so would a bullet, My preference on what little is known at this time about what is actually going on and indeed the competence of the owner(s), would be to remove the dog from the immediate vicinity and outside into a kennel. That could well break the cycle more quickly than a crate in the immediate environment, and allow his people to get a handle on what is going on, whether it be through the assistance of a trainer, vet or behaviourist, or simply learning a little more about dogs. 

It could also be a medical issue, in which case all of the above will not address it, I am not thinking just thyroid, there are other conditions/meds which can effect similar behaviours as I'm sure you are aware.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> No, I can't tell this over the internet, I can say though that it does sound like it. The question was less demanding of an actual answer but was more intended as food for thought for the OP, hence why I decided no attempt at offering advice at all.
> 
> A crate as well as good ob may well address the symptoms as you state....and so would a bullet, My preference on what little is known at this time about what is actually going on and indeed the competence of the owner(s), would be to remove the dog from the immediate vicinity and outside into a kennel. That could well break the cycle more quickly than a crate in the immediate environment, and allow his people to get a handle on what is going on, whether it be through the assistance of a trainer, vet or behaviourist, or simply learning a little more about dogs.
> 
> It could also be a medical issue, in which case all of the above will not address it, I am not thinking just thyroid, there are other conditions/meds which can effect similar behaviours as I'm sure you are aware.



you put a dog in a crate and obedience and a bullet in a dog in the same category? That seems a bit excessive. 

Don't you suppose the medical issue would come up every time they leave? Not just when he goes to work?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> you put a dog in a crate and obedience and a bullet in a dog in the same category? That seems a bit excessive.
> 
> Don't you suppose the medical issue would come up every time they leave? Not just when he goes to work?


Yes, the crate and bullet in the same sentence is excessive, but I find the crate as the first stop to a solution also excessive. That is just me.

I think it unlikely the behaviour is strictly limited to when he goes out to work, although it sounds as though the dog is responding to triggers, but could be a developing medical problem which renders the dog unable to deal with stress and will progress to whenever they leave....maybe. You can analyse it to death but there is not nearly enough information or understanding of what is going on from the info provided to ascertain either cause or remedy, which includes ob. 

I am not articulate enough to express all that I would probably like to say in a coherent manner, I tend to prefer to deal with stuff on a more instinctual basis. So, that is pretty much what you are getting from me on this.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

A point also to note perhaps..perhaps not, is the fact the op thought the 'training discussion' forum was the place for this thread.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> A point also to note perhaps..perhaps not, is the fact the op thought the 'training discussion' forum was the place for this thread.



We are discussing it. Not agreeing on all points, but who ever does that anyway?? 

Another point to question....is shooting a dog a legitimate training tool? Sort of the ultimate correction. As you suggested it, maybe you could answer. Would mind control be the other end of the spectrum?O


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> We are discussing it. Not agreeing on all points, but who ever does that anyway??
> 
> Another point to question....is shooting a dog a legitimate training tool? Sort of the ultimate correction. As you suggested it, maybe you could answer. Would mind control be the other end of the spectrum?O


That would all depend on the personality involved now wouldn't it ? ;-)


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Okay...... 1) Rick your right, its not an OB problem in my opinon either.
I was only stating what he told me and to point out the dog is under some degree of control.
2) Your right probably should have never posted lol since I'm well aware of how people get all worked up about the slightest of things. I simply wanted to know had anyone ever come across this. And if so what did they experience with it.
3) It is a training issue no matter how you view it! Could be dog, could be handler but the it takes both understanding whats expected and whats not. Behavior issues if not tied to medical are training issues. So it's a learned behavior at some point, either taught knowingly or without realizing it.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> It is a training issue no matter how you view it! Could be dog, could be handler but the it takes both understanding whats expected and whats not. Behavior issues if not tied to medical are training issues. So it's a learned behavior at some point, either taught knowingly or without realizing it.


I think that is a pretty original statement.

So, if a behaviour issue is not tied to a medical issue, it is a learned behaviour ??


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

LOL yes you can tell this is over the internet. Bottom line for the over top folks. Dog has not bitten anyone at this point. OB (down stay) is what they had tried but the dog started breaking it. Up until it did that one day he had always been very reliable with his down stay. The wife holding the dog by the collar until he leaves they started doing until he dragged her across the room one day. "Guards" the door - dog growls, barks, shows threatening behavior in the owners opinon. "BUT" if he starts to leave and the dog goes through all this. Then he leaves out a different door while the dog is showing this behavior. The dog doesn't follow him but simply stays at the door normally used. 

Somebody said they would be interested in knowing whats up at this point. 

1) Not going to shoot the dog
2) Finding out the trigger factors (whats different in the weekday routine from the weekend morning routine) Since it only happens when he is going to work he says.
3) Use crate to help with issue
4) Changing routine some to help pin point issues. And helping the owner understand when is it time to step up and lead. Is it now or when the dog finally bites out of frustration?
5) Yes its a pain doing it this way but excessive force on the dog will not work!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I'd probably be working on leadership and yes, basic ob (which is far from solid, as pointed out by several people) with the usual gradually ratcheted-up distraction, venue changes, and duration (not all increased at once, of course). Most of the valid "why" possibilities for me would still boil down to better leadership and ob.

I didn't get why SA was suggested as likely at this age and as sudden as this sounded .... ?

JMO!



eta QUOTE:
_"FYI a crate will address the symptom/negatives on all four, as will good OB. I agree with Rick here to find the cause, and have that as a goal. "_ Makes sense to me.


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

QUOTE=maggie fraser: I think that is a pretty original statement.

So, if a behaviour issue is not tied to a medical issue, it is a learned behaviour ??


Glad you like the original statement....... Yes in this case I think thats a true statement. I see 3 things in a dog.... genetic's, medical, and learned. And more often than not when I see an issue. Its what the dog has learned or not learned. ie..... training!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

just out of curiosity, who handles the dog the most, and interacts with it..?

and does the dog so with everyone or just the man of the house, the initial post was when anyone tries to leave the house or say a room, is it still a room or the house? sorry if redundant.


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Connie.. I agree with you..... the one thing on the ob is. Even done in all kinds of places the dog does good. Maybe solid is masking what I'm saying here. 

The dog only disobeys in this instance of the owner leaving for work and at times if his wife starts to leave. Now I did learn today that he used to do this to anybody that was in the house and started to leave. But doesn't do someone visiting that way so much anymore. But has increased the behavior to them. (thats when they started trying the other things)

So in my mind its can it be corrected at this point?
Personally I would not want to have to crate, or put my dog in a down stay when I had to leave. 
But my dogs understand who leads and no means no.


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Joby he handles the dog the most and has been the primary trainer. And its the house and not just a room.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> Personally I would not want to have to crate, or put my dog in a down stay when I had to leave.


Neither would I. But I like to think my relationship with my dogs would never require either one. 

However, we're talking about someone else, not me, not you.  And it sounds like that person needs some leadership brushing up.


About the ob: Someone earlier said something to the effect that a desired behavior instead (when the present unwanted behavior is triggered), if the desired behavior is made bullet-proof, leaves no room for the unwanted behavior. *

Say a dog has undesirable doorbell behavior. Of course, the dog could be put up whenever the doorbell rings, but the dog could also be trained the doorbell behavior that IS desired. And if that desired command (whatever it is) is so well-trained that it really is solid, then the old unwanted behavior is gone. Right?

But JMO!


*eta
It was Dave Colborn: _"Teaching a mutually exclusive behavior, IE a down stay, when you are leaving ... "_


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Connie thats true with the door bell behavior scenario. Which is why I suggested that he needed to think about what actually triggers it. Since it doesn't happen on the weekend. Something he does during the week lets the dog know. okay I can start my BS.

I can see a dog having an issue where its so stimulated by something that it breaks a down. See it all the time. But he didn't think this was an issue I guess until the dog did break it.

I have him changing somethings.... and rewarding the dog for not reacting. for instance when he would put his coffee cup down the dog knows he is about to go out the door.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> Since it doesn't happen on the weekend. Something he does during the week lets the dog know. okay I can start my BS.


I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but a dog can know when it is the weekend so to speak. The atmosphere, tensions and dynamics can change in a home particularly at the weekend wouldn't you agree ? and dogs can be very sensitive to atmosphere. Or is that a training issue too ?


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

lol its a training issue if the owner doesn't recognize what the difference in the daily/morning routine is. That is the week day and the weekend! And how it is effecting the pack.

Not trying to be a smart "a" either but training is for both handler and dog!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

so if they wake up and pretend it is a workday, and behave like he is going to work, on a saturday, the dog does not do it?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> lol its a training issue if the owner doesn't recognize what the difference in the daily/morning routine is. That is the week day and the weekend! And how it is effecting the pack.
> 
> Not trying to be a smart "a" either but training is for both handler and dog!


I'm offering a different perspective here, that is all. I think it is something more than a training issue, I think there is considerably more to_ living _with dogs than simply training issues.

I'm gonna butt out on your thread and quit bugging you...you seem to have all the answers you need.


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Maggie didn't mean to sound that way. Thought I was answering your question. But you say your offering a different view. The only one I remember is shoot the dog or something to that effect.

You say its not a training issue then explain why you say that! 

I posted because I was looking for different approaches. Yes I think I got that and thank those who helped.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> Maggie didn't mean to sound that way. Thought I was answering your question. But you say your offering a different view. The only one I remember is shoot the dog or something to that effect.
> 
> You say its not a training issue then explain why you say that!
> 
> I posted because I was looking for different approaches. Yes I think I got that and thank those who helped.


Ok Patrick. I have direct experience in addition to experience of others dogs who have exhibited both behavioural questions you have asked, ie. the dog guarding the room and attempting to prevent the person(s) leaving and, the anxious type behaviour you have described of the Bouv.

Regarding the friend you had who supposedly trained this behaviour, I believe it probably to be a natural untrained behaviour. Our family bloodhound used to exhibit this controlling behaviour toward strangers, wouldn't let them move, sat and rolled his eyes at them, growled if they so much as moved an inch, I believe he meant it. It never ever did come to it for the fact folks were so intimidated to stay still until 'rescued', this may have been hours. I have also had a gsd attempt to prevent strangers leaving the home, the scenario being I had a litter of jrt puppiies and folks coming to view. Again, naturally protective behaviour for him and his for a dog which lives in the home, which was obviously addressed at the time.

The dog you descibe to me (jmo), is insecure, apparently stuff he has been able to deal with up until recently, he can no longer deal with. Something going down or changing, either with him or who he lives with. He doesn't exhibit same behaviour at the weekend ? Why do you think that is ? I don't think it has zip all to do with food or feeding time, he's just not so uptight about folks leaving him...'cos maybe they are about more and he is included. Could be a number of reasons.

The point is, I don't think you probably know and understand what is really going on there, in addition you are relaying second hand information coloured by your own interpretation before it hits this board. it'a a lose lose situation really. No-one knows what the hell is going on really. So you see, no great theory or academics exuding from me, just an interpretation of what I have read on your thread.

Just as an added, it may/may not be worth considering cushings disease....

So, I guess what I'm saying is if it's SA simple ob and correction is you're probably on a hiding to nothing and \i don't suppose that helps. Think I'll get off to bed now.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but a dog can know when it is the weekend so to speak. The atmosphere, tensions and dynamics can change in a home particularly at the weekend wouldn't you agree ? and dogs can be very sensitive to atmosphere. Or is that a training issue too ?


A clairvoyant dog?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> A clairvoyant dog?


No, an expectant dog LOL


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> No, an expectant dog LOL


Let's ask Ceasar for help on this pack theory issue!!!


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Teach the dog correct behavior (down), make sure he know the correct behavior, proof the proper behavior and if the dog f*ks up then...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEuPQW2aq00&feature=related O

Or as others recommended...crate the damn dog!


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

LOL for the sake of a safe play ground! Your right I have no idea whats going on with the dog.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but a dog can know when it is the weekend so to speak. The atmosphere, tensions and dynamics can change in a home particularly at the weekend wouldn't you agree ? and dogs can be very sensitive to atmosphere. Or is that a training issue too ?


At last we agree...that means we see the same way on an issue!
My dogs know.sense when Sunday training is taking place. The excitement in th air, the desire to do something FUN! =D>


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Ditto on check the thyroid. Bouvs are notorious for being really weird and having aggression issues when the thyroid is outta whack. Have a dog that trains with me with a lot of drive and intensity. Started out being a bit handler sensitive but after a certain age no sign of being handler or pressure sensitive. Really nice stock sense and farmer happy that he finally has a dog that has the authority he needs for his sheep. Little by little reduction in drive to the point where I couldn't even get him to work sheep. Then suddenly he doesn't like men and is kennel/crate guarding with other dogs. Never any people or dog aggression issues before and I've seen him in public. He just turned three. Finally last week while I stopped at the vet's office, I tossed out to his wife and the vet, did they think it was worth it to check his thyroid. They looked at me like I was a little whacky. I explained that I just couldn't see how else he would have a total personality change and that it had been progressive. She then told me about the sudden people and dog aggression and agreed it wouldn't hurt to check but hadn't really thought thyroid. Well his thyroid was low---really low. Now with supplements, we'll see if he comes back to what he was.

T


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