# Odd behavior... thoughts? (long question)



## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Ok, I've searched the forum, and even combed through archives, but I can't find this.

I recently got a Malinois from Kadi; Turco du Dantero. He is 19 months old, and seems to be a really cool dog. He is just as Kadi described him - bonds closely with his family, and is suspicious of othed people. But he has a strange 'quirk' that has me stumped. 

He bites himself on his flanks, and even pulls on a mouthfull of skin. He does this while spinning back and forth in his crate, side to side, when he's excited. I thought it was a crate boredom thing, but he was sitting out on the front porch, and would randomly 'attack' one side or the other. Skin seems fine, no dryness, and he doesn't react when i feel his sides.

Also, he seems overly interested in my 2 year old son. Not aggressive, but very exciteable and lunges to get to him. I have him on a prong with a dominant dog collar as a fail-safe if the prong comes apart, so I have been correcting and re-directing when he shows excessive interest. The reason I bring it up is that my husband was in the bedroom where turco is crated, and the dog was standing still in his crate. When my son walked in, Turco started spinning and biting. I took my son out of the room, and Turco stayed excited, but stopped the spinning and biting. My husband let him out of the crate to go outside, and he charged out, as though looking for my son. they collided, and turco was nudging or licking him or something. I want to say he was mouthing him, but he had no red marks, so I dont think his teeth ever made contact. We corrected him, and he calmed down immediately, but it was still strange...

as I write this, Turco is laying on the porch in front of the screen door, 'chewing' his side. 

I would love any input, or related experiences!


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Have you discussed any of this with Kadi yet?

I would do so, and in the meantime, keep the dog and child separate or keep the dog on lead and teach the child what is acceptable and what is not acceptable around the dog.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

sorry Megan, I have 6 Mals currently...and have had many others, I love the breed, but I can't say I experienced that behavior with any of mine. I do have one that is obsessed with his dog door in the kennel, biting it, licking it, constantly when in the kennel .....? you said the dog didn't have any skin issues...mites, or mange that can cause itching- ? it would be interesting to know if you ever come up with the solution.


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Not yet, she was judging a FR trial this weekend, so I left her a voicemail. I just figured there enough experienced malinois people on here that I should get some feedback... be it good or bad!

edit: forgot to add that yes, I am also correcting my son for inappropriate behavior as well.


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

So you got the Mali you wanted. Good for you! It also sounds like you have your hands full.

What ever you do, keep the dog away from your child. The dog see him as pray. This is the reason so many children are bit every year.

Without seeing the biting behavior, but it sounds like self mutilation to me. If he has nothing to put in his mouth, he will put himself in his mouth.

I think your breeder will be able to help you the most with your behavior question. They would know the dog the best.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I have seen some dogs who were chronic "flank suckers", usually seen in Dobermanns. 
I have seen a Malinois that did this obsessively and he had a bad kidney infection. 
I am not saying that either of these is the issue with your dog. Just my experience with what I have seen.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Megan Berry said:


> Not yet, she was judging a FR trial this weekend, so I left her a voicemail. I just figured there enough experienced malinois people on here that I should get some feedback... be it good or bad!
> 
> edit: forgot to add that yes, I am also correcting my son for inappropriate behavior as well.


There are really experienced people here, however, this is an issue that should be discussed with the breeder first in my opinion.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

If my dog would behave this way towards my child(dont have one) he would be leaving today.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

I would tie the dog to a door with about 4 feet on a leash. You can be beside the dog and your child. You teach them both how to behave with each other. The child can move away if the dog is getting too rough. The dog learns to be gentle because the child moves his attention away from the dog for being rough.

Your dog has probably not been around children but likes them. I do not know if it is a prey issue. It sounds like your dog wants to be with your son but I do not want to say this because I'm not at your house. My Mal is good with my children. I'll usually find my daughter laying on the dog's belly. I did have to teach the dog how to behave around my kids. My kids like to play with balls, so it took some work to teach him to leave my kids balls alone and them while they were playing. 

How much exercise are you giving the dog? Are you playing fetch or other games with him? Are you doing any work with the dog or training? The dog could be chewing out of boredom.

On a side note, you will get more from your dog by being calm around him. I am not sure why you have a dominant collar or scared of the prong collar breaking. If you start upping aggression with your dog, it can be a viscous circle that goes nowhere. The idea is to get the dog to accept you as leader not force yourself upon the dog. Try to be relaxed around the dog and be matter of fact. Dogs respond well to black and white.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

re: flank chewing and spinning
Throw a Kong in the crate give him something to chew on besides himself

Re: Son licking
Maybe he just likes his smell/taste?
Most two year olds smell like dirty diapers and spilt baby food and talcum powder and lotion.

Supervision and setting rules for dog and son should eliminate any future problems.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jack,

You know me (sort of). Do you see any aggression, prey, etc. towards small kids, that are more or less in "bent over" crawling stage, or even though out of this stage and could walk?

Why I'm asking is, that one or two Great Danes many years ago attacked children in this position.

I had a Landseer Dog years ago that had absolutely no problems with adults or children, but, in the garden whenever the kids (neighbours) bent over he would go over and "hump" them. I told them always to remain upright and no problem.

Absolutely no problem is not correct. He didn't accept them but would leave them in peace if they didn't encroach his property, i.e. remove his possessions.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jack,

You know me (sort of). Do you see any aggression, prey, etc. towards small kids, that are more or less in "bent over" crawling stage, or even though out of this stage and could walk?

Why I'm asking is, that one or two Great Danes many years ago attacked children in this position.

I had a Landseer Dog years ago that had absolutely no problems with adults or children, but, in the garden whenever the kids (neighbours) bent over he would go over and "hump" them. I told them always to remain upright and no problem.

Absolutely no problem is not maybe correct. He loved people and kids but he was very possessive and would not tolerate anyone, kid or adult, apart from us, taking away anything he thought of as his possession.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Dogs generally use the back legs to scratch at the front half of the body and since they can't reach the back half with the hind legs they chew. Not saying this will stop it but the simple first thing to do is to brush the whole area where he is chewing including the belly area put Gold Bond on it liberally, and brush it again. Repeat for a couple of days. If it is mites that you can't see anyway, it will ease the problem. Gold bond is and anti itch powder. Most itching is caused by mites whether it is people or dogs and Gold Bond has Eucolyptol in it which is a natural pesticide that mites can't handle.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Don,

Thanks for the info on the gold bond powder.

Gillian,

I think some dogs just are not comfortable enough around kids. I had one dog that had poor nerves and had a fear of children. I put her down because she was dangerous to keep. 

I do not know about crawling vs. standing. It seems like dogs good with children are not set off by a child crawling or walking. The ones that I've seen set of by children seem to be more of a nerve problem and fearful temperament. I do not think it would matter if the child is on all fours crawling or walking on two legs.

I noticed with some terriers that they will lick children and jump all over them if not trained. I think this is just playful behavior and not some type of prey object. 

The one thing that I will not mess with a dog fearful or aggressive towards children. I just think it is a dangerous accident waiting to happen. I am amazed that people keep these types of dogs around children. I was talking to my vet and he told me about family that adopted a German Shepherd. The vet told them to put the dog down because he was not a stable dog and he would bit one of their children. The family did not listen to the vet and the dog ended up biting one of their children in the face. Here is the sick part of the story. They wanted to keep the dog and not put him down, after he had bitten their child.

I know some trainer advocate that a child crawling can set off a dog's prey drive. If you have a dog going after children as a prey then I see this as bad temperament and not a dog to keep around. There is a difference between prey and playing. Children running and the dog chasing them is a game not some prey object that the dog wants to grab and kill.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jack Roberts said:


> I think some dogs just are not comfortable enough around kids. I had one dog that had poor nerves and had a fear of children. I put her down because she was dangerous to keep.



Not everybody has kids. Not every dog needs to be kid friendly, as long as basic common sense rules are followed. I find screeching misbehaving brats annoying myself. I understand any dog that
doesn't like kids


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

i would also like to hear what Kadis take is on this , i would assume maybe she had the dog prior or knew the people who did, she could probably give more info , 
i am not keen on correcting the dog on a prong for showing interest to a kid, as you can make it a negative even though he may have been just overly freindly and you may not be reading it right, if it was me , i would get a basket muzzle and have it on him around the kid then you willl see true intention without interference


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Jack Roberts said:


> *The one thing that I will not mess with a dog fearful or aggressive towards children. I just think it is a dangerous accident waiting to happen. I am amazed that people keep these types of dogs around children. I was talking to my vet and he told me about family that adopted a German Shepherd. The vet told them to put the dog down because he was not a stable dog and he would bit one of their children. The family did not listen to the vet and the dog ended up biting one of their children in the face. Here is the sick part of the story. They wanted to keep the dog and not put him down, after he had bitten their child.*
> 
> Ok, the dog biting the kid thing...very very BAD....now heres the issues i have with it tho...how come the kid got bit in the first place ? if they knew the dog wasnt stable or had a tendency to bite be it kids or adults then how the hell did the owners manage to let it get that far to begin with...and explain to me why the dog should be put asleep ? Shoot the fkin owners ! they are the idiots here and not the dog, its so easy to blame the dog for this when its the parents that didnt use any common sence to begin with..just my opinion!
> 
> ...


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Alice,

The dog that bite the child's face already had nerve issues. The idiots thought they had a good guard dog. It is the only thing that I can think of why they would keep such a dog. They rescued the dog, which more than likely had bite someone else. The vet that I know has a lot of common sense. He understands animals better than most trainers or people. 

He is from the old school of thinking about animals. Bad animals need to be put down. There is no rehab for poor temperament.


I agree about some kids deserving to get bite. I do not agree with a dog that is aggressive towards children for no reason. My kids respect the dog or they get punished. You teach them how to behave around animals. The dog knows his place and if he did snap or bite one of my kids for no reason, I would shoot him myself. 

If you have a dog that does not like children then the dog should never be allowed around any. This means that if you live in a neighborhood then you probably should consider getting another dog, especially if the dog is out in the backyard alone where possibly it could get loose. 

Any dog that is fearful or aggressive towards kids for no reason has temperament problems in my eyes. The is purely a dog problem. Now, if the dog was abused by kids, then there is a valid reason here for not liking kids. I have seen young pups that had poor temperaments that were not good around children, even though a child had done nothing bad to them. This type of dog is a poor bred animal. A good temperament dog should be stable around everyone in my eyes. It shows weakness of character in the dog.



Tammy,

I agree about the prong corrections. I like the idea of a basket muzzle. It sounds like the poster may be upping aggression on the dog for no reason. What message is the dog getting from seeing the child and being corrected. It sounds like she has an exuberant dog who wants to see a child. I know that this is her first Malinois and more than likely first dog with drive. It seems like a lot of people think putting the hammer down on the dog is the best way to get a hold of a situation. A lot better way in my thinking is to introduce the child and dog in a controlled situation each day for a little time. If the dog is spinning in his crate, then perhaps some more exercise is needed for the dog.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I didn't respond to the behavior part of the original post because without seeing what is happening first hand, there is no point. You can't depend on another persons perception of what is taking place. Is the dog playing? Is it maybe serious? Just what is it. I had a dog that used to go after kids when people were here looking at the dogs. Parents fault every time. Had her go after an adult once...the adults fault. She always went for the face and scared the crap out of the parents, the kids, and the one adult. I knew it was going to happen every time before it happened and and the dog would take about three swipes at them as she moved in with a terrible growl. When those jaws slammed shut it sounded like a steel trap. Would I put her down for it? Not a chance. Like I told the parents as the kids were crying, the dog is just doing your job....I told you to keep the kid with you and away from that dog..... and your sitting over there laughing while your kid hits the dog in the face. The dog was fast and if she wanted to bite, someone would have been bit. I bet those people paid attention next time they had those kids around strange dogs. LOL


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

I did speak with Kadi about these issues, and she did have some suggestions. She knows that I prefer to ask several people's opinion, and I'm not asking here to insult her. I do value her opinion!

Turco has not shown any aggression, just interest, playful-type interest. My biggest deal now is trying to re-direct his exhuberance elsewhere. 

Turco is stable. We took him with us to a car show, and walked him around for a few hours. He did great! He didn't show much interest in anybody. Except fot the guy in a huge whale mascot costume, lol. I think Turco thought he was a guy in a bite suit! he didn't go for him, but he sure watched him close!

I've realized the 'self biting' is a habit, and there are a few things I plan to try.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

If I see that a dog has repeated screwy or aggressive tendencies towards a child the dog is gone end of discussion. You can always get another dog. 

A child that gets bit or hurt is on you - your fault end of discussion. A dog that has nerve issues around children will always have nerve issues around children. Why risk it?


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0GsNhLt9Ds

:-\"\\/:lol:


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Candy Eggert said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0GsNhLt9Ds
> 
> :-\"\\/:lol:


Candy did you see the out takes clips?


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

I have seen issues between children and dogs before ,like most dog people i guess.
Alice,you are totally right it is always the parents fault when a child gets bit,the child here is only two years old and has no clue .
I guess in the USA it is very common to put an aggressive dog to sleep because if some one takes you to court over a repeat incident your life is over.
Of course it is possible to have a dog that is not to be trusted around children or other people,but for heavens sake do not keep a dog like that in a family setting!(housedog)
Megan, if you do not have voice control over your dog in the house then you have no control at all imo.
You said he is suspious of strangers and yet you walked him around a lot of people for hours with no problems? I am not trying to preach to you but understand ,and i am totally with Shane on this one,if living with a child and a dog and there are issues the dog will go today.
If your child gets bit how can you ever forgive yourself?


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Shane Woodlief said:


> Candy did you see the out takes clips?


Just saw it now Shane. Hysterical :lol: These commercials just crack me up ;-)


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

how are things going with this dog now ?


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

He is doing fine now. Other than the occasional drive-by teaddy-bear theft, he ignores him. the only time he gets excited is when xander is scream-crying, but that is easily avoided.

He has turned out to be EXACTLY what I wanted in a dog!


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