# Unpredictable/Unstable??!!



## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

I am so pissed right now!!! Rade bit my friend, unprovoked. My friend, Sarah, Joe, and I were standing outside in my backyard, with Rade on a leash (we were actually trying to figure out how the puppy kept escaping from the kennel :?: ) and Rade wass just sitting next to me, the next thing I know Rade lunged up and grabbed a hold of Sarah's stomach, I quickly pulled the leash back, not allowing him to get a full bite, but he still gripped on. I hung his behind, and eventually he let go. 

I dont understand why he did this. There were no sudden movement, or threatening gestures, it was out of the blue. I went to trainining today and this was the first time this trainer met Rade, he looked at him and said "This dog has some issues", just by his look and body language. He is completely unpredictable, and is a liability. I love Rade and he is a beautiful dog, but I am at a loss. Do I give him back to the breeder? I dont know what to do, any advice???


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

A nervy dog isn't the best prospect for much of anything. As a side note, anytime a dog latches onto someone, choking them off will minimize damage. Pulling or lifting the dog places additional pressure on the puncture site. How ile is this dog and has he had any aggression training?

DFrost


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Alegria Cebreco said:


> I am so pissed right now!!! Rade bit my friend, unprovoked. My friend, Sarah, Joe, and I were standing outside in my backyard, with Rade on a leash (we were actually trying to figure out how the puppy kept escaping from the kennel :?: ) and Rade wass just sitting next to me, the next thing I know Rade lunged up and grabbed a hold of Sarah's stomach, I quickly pulled the leash back, not allowing him to get a full bite, but he still gripped on. I hung his behind, and eventually he let go.
> 
> I dont understand why he did this. There were no sudden movement, or threatening gestures, it was out of the blue. I went to trainining today and this was the first time this trainer met Rade, he looked at him and said "This dog has some issues", just by his look and body language. He is completely unpredictable, and is a liability. I love Rade and he is a beautiful dog, but I am at a loss. Do I give him back to the breeder? I dont know what to do, any advice???


Sounds like the trainer nailed it. The dog did as was predicted you better get rid of it NOW! before someone or some kid gets hurt or maimed. Some dogs just ain't hooked up rite.


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## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

David, he is 13 months old and has never done any pressured bite work. We did formal prey bitework once before, and the trainer had a hard time trying to keep him in prey drive as he's very defensive. 

Mike, I know I have to do it, its just very hard. I just need some reassurance that he is a liability and cannot stay here. I am so hurt right now!!!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

It wasn't long ago there was a post about a good that become aggressive - because of a brain tumor.

I believe a dog never acts without motivation. 

a) I don't know you, but a lot of people don't recognize stress signals from a dog. It's possible your dog was trying to tell you something, you didn't see it so your dog took action.
b) Motivation can come from within - and when this happens there is no saving the dog. Whether it be a tumor on the brain, an irreversible condition like neurosis, or an inborn "mental illness," these dogs are a ticking time bombs and no amount of training, medication, diet, supplements or exercise can change it.

I won't guess over the internet what is going on. I always give the dog the benefit of the doubt. I think your dog has a chance - but NOT with you. From your other posts, it sounds like this is a very dangerous situation all around and you need to resolve it NOW.

Talk to the breeder first and see if a replacement pup is an option - but decide ahead of time if you want a dog from the same breeder. Even the most highly respected breeder could throw a pup with a fluke. But some bloodlines are nervy and dangerous.

This isn't going to be fun or easy.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Alegria Cebreco said:


> David, he is 13 months old and has never done any pressured bite work. We did formal prey bitework once before, and the trainer had a hard time trying to keep him in prey drive as he's very defensive.
> 
> Mike, I know I have to do it, its just very hard. I just need some reassurance that he is a liability and cannot stay here. I am so hurt right now!!!


I feel for ya I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. I spend more time choosing a puppy than I did my wife because I didnt want to go through what you are and there still isn't any guarantee's sorry


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Hm, I went back and read your earlier posts, and it sounds like it's all been building up to this? All the wrning signs...

1) tried to bite your grandmother, early on.
2) got in a fight with your friend over a toy, bite.
3) aggressive in public.
4) jumped a fence and bit your friend
5) jumped at you, injured you, knocked you down
6) finally bit a friend unprovoked

I have to wonder how much environment and handling play into all of this too, because it also sounds like the household is chaotic and Rade is not getting clear, consistant leadership. Plus, not enough excersise. Plus a new puppy in the house, which takes your time away from him. What exactly was the new trainer's evaluation of the dog? 

Even my neurotic aggressive chow mix, who IS a proven fear-biter, there's been no problems - because I don't give her the opportunity to do anything stupid.

I agree with everyone, strongly consider rehoming the dog.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

"I agree with everyone, strongly consider rehoming the dog."

Don't include me in the "everyone". I'd return the dog to the breeder. One of the problems I have with terminology is actually the term "defensive". I know it's used a lot in sport. With me, the dog is either sound or it has nerve issues. This dog, from the description of the bites and the quote: "a hard time trying to keep him in prey drive as he's very defensive", definately convince me, this dog has serious nerve issues. He's a fearful dog and could well become more dangerous as he grows up. I'd return the dog to the breeder or pretty much figure this dog will become something that will have kenneled most of it's life. Personally, if the breeder didn't take it back, I'd have it euthanized.

DFrost


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Just had another thought - was it the SAME friend he bit or all different people?


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## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

Rade has gone back to the breeder (she came and picked him up a couple hours ago). It was a difficult decision, but I feel I made the right choice. I did not just give up on him, I just feel it was in his best interest. Hopefully the breeder can work with him, and find someone who can "appreciate" and fully understand his temperament. 

It was the most responsible decision for all parties involved.


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## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

Anna Kasho said:


> Just had another thought - was it the SAME friend he bit or all different people?


It was a different person.
One more thing I have to add. I dont know what conclusions you (or anyone else) has made about me or my "leadership". I am not a "lah-di-dah" let the dogs be free type of person. I run a very strict household and am very hard on my dogs and am a good leader. We all have our bad days and dogs do too. That day I posted about Rade driving me crazy was one of those days (or two). I dont care how good of a "leader" you are, your dogs WILL test you at some point or another. I DID have control over Rade, but how much control can you have over an animal that is COMPLETELY unpredictable. If it wasnt for my quick response to his lunge he would have really taken a chunk out of her (literally).


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Alegria I'm sorry you had to send Rade back. I agree with you, it was the best thing for him. Do you have another GSD or are you planning to get another one?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Unfortunately sometimes, regardless of whether the dog is sound or not, dogs and handlers do not make a good match.

I am glad the dog went back to the breeder, because I am hesitant to take the word of 2 people on the internet that I've never met before, about a dog that I've never seen before. The dog could be a phenomenal dog in the right hands, or maybe he really is nuts.

At least he wasn't put down on a few peoples say-so. If he is euthanized later after proper evaluation then so be it.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Alegria welcome to the club of K9 WTFs. I had a Border Collie that acted like a squirrel. One day it bolted away from me and took off through my corn field. I got the ATV and found it in the farm pond, all pond scum covered and being an ass. I walked out, snatched it up and hog tied it. After hosing it off I took it back to the breeder. The first words out of my mouth were, "So, how many other puppies from this breeding are THIS %$#@ BAD...?" The breeder looked down and said, "Several.":-( 

If you are having issues now, I would take it back to the breeder and get a refund. It could be a one time deal or a marker for more to come. My male Bouvier is *VERY *defensive and I keep him kenneled for everyone's safety. Some folks say that isn't right and that your "protection" dog isn't there when you may need it...that's why I also carry a gun! 

A child of the corn was born on a day, just not yesterday![-X


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## Kris Finison (Nov 26, 2007)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Unfortunately sometimes, regardless of whether the dog is sound or not, dogs and handlers do not make a good match.


Very, very good point here. 
Sorry you had to give him back, but I also hope that he gets a home that he will do better in. I think you made the right decision in this case.


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