# RSV2000 Korung--Is this a Better Test?



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Recently ran across these. Is this a better test of the dog's strengths and/or weaknesses?

Olek Maineiche

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfrw8AbTqmc


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## Gregory Doud (Nov 10, 2008)

What's so different about this test? It's the same exact test as an SV Korung. An attack out of the blind with two stick hits and a courage test. It's just not watered down for the show dogs as some SV Korungs are. - Greg


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

The difference is Raiser is helper:-$ But I do agree it's the same but even for SL


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Steve Estrada said:


> The difference is Raiser is helper:-$ But I do agree it's the same but even for SL


he is everything


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## Aaron Rice (Jun 12, 2010)

How do you test a dog by giving them two bites with zero to minimum pressure?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Steve Estrada said:


> The difference is Raiser is helper:-$ But I do agree it's the same but even for SL


I hadn't seen the SV Korung. Raiser as the helper was the first video that I ran across. There are more with different helpers and its a different picture for the dog, or so it seems.

T


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Aaron Rice said:


> How do you test a dog by giving them two bites with zero to minimum pressure?


 
Do you think given the test, there is zero to minimum pressure or with this and/or other decoys?

T


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Aaron Rice said:


> How do you test a dog by giving them two bites with zero to minimum pressure?


How many does it take? I think 2 is more than sufficient. One bite that is close, somewhat of a surprise that includes physically overpowering the dog and applying some unpleasent stimulus. This one is intended to put doubt in the dogs head. The second requiring the dog be unrestrained (because we know retraint can increase prey when the helper is well outside the threat threshhold) then with a decoy charging the dog is released (and a helper who remains silent until just before the moment of impact), then followed once again by the decoy physically overpowering the dog and providing an unpleasent stimulus. 

Or you could back tie your dog to help wind him up and have the helper at 50 plus yards make a bunch a of prey attraction. Then when the dogs pump is good an primed release him and have he helper shake a party favor over his head.


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## Aaron Rice (Jun 12, 2010)

James Downey said:


> How many does it take? I think 2 is more than sufficient. One bite that is close, somewhat of a surprise that includes physically overpowering the dog and applying some unpleasent stimulus. This one is intended to put doubt in the dogs head. The second requiring the dog be unrestrained (because we know retraint can increase prey when the helper is well outside the threat threshhold) then with a decoy charging the dog is released (and a helper who remains silent until just before the moment of impact), then followed once again by the decoy physically overpowering the dog and providing an unpleasent stimulus.
> 
> Or you could back tie your dog to help wind him up and have the helper at 50 plus yards make a bunch a of prey attraction. Then when the dogs pump is good an primed release him and have he helper shake a party favor over his head.


James in theory you are correct. Two bites both near and far surprise and set up are good tests. Also good that it is done off leash not letting the dog load with out self control. Now what actually happens is another story. I do believe this is a nice dog but you still cant verify this through this video. The korung should separate dogs not just be one more easily passed test. 

First, the dog has been around the block. He is veering towards the blind and eyeballing it. Next, should the dog take off at the slightest move ment from behind an object? What if that was a kid chasing his ball that got thrown into the strret. Then the "charging decoy" pops out of the blind and side steps and two sch style stick hits. I don't feel the helper came close to over powering this dog. Although i do like the concept of a surprise attack I think for an ipo trained dog the blinds should be non traditional. Maybe even have some more environmentals in there. The long bite is a very typical ipo style send. Nothing special about it minus the attraction. If you do that why don't they do a completely passive bite. I bet many dogs would fail it and go into a bark and hold.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwzb20wFIBQ


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Why on earth don't you contact Helmut Reiser??

Instead of criticising and wondering, you can ask him all the questions that are bothering you.

His command of English is good as is members of his Club.

There's more to the tests that he does than meets the eye.

Sometimes one has to react and not sit în a corner and moan.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

How could it fail on a passive decoy when it does what it is trained to do...


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## Jehane Michael Le Grange (Feb 24, 2009)

Coming back to the question in the title of this thread, "Is this a better test?" well test for what? Whether this dog has what it takes to bite live and protect its handler? Nope this test does not do that....simply because there will always be dogs that can pass this but will fail the real stuff. There will also, naturally be dogs that pass this that are great police dog candidates but does passing this test indicate that a dog is suitable for police or real life protection work? Definitely not. 

Does the test, test stress tolerance and drive and self assurance (TSB)? I think it does, maybe slightly less on the stress tolerance side but I think a dog with insufficient drive and self assurance would fail this test if it is consistently conducted with helper work of this intensity. So if all RSV2000 Korung or breed surveys are conducted like this, then one would reliably be able to pick up an RSV2000 pedigree and know more reliably what the dog is able to do or formulate a more accurate picture of the dogs abilities if it has passed a Korung, which is better than the current situation of SV Breed Surveys...since reading a pedigree with SV SchH3 or IPO 3's and breed surveys really tells me very little about the dog's capabilities... i.e. the integrity of the SV titles have been compromised due to the manner in which they are conducted. This is consistent with the other views in this thread in that the only difference between the RSV2000 and SV breed surveys is the Helper or more importantly the level or intensity of helper work and the consistency of such helper work through out all RSV2000 breed surveys.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

will fernandez said:


> How could it fail on a passive decoy when it does what it is trained to do...


+ 100
These are all trained behaviors. I would also add that who is giving the test has a lot to do with the validity of it.


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