# Dirofilariasis



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Fancy name for heart worm. Thunder had his yearly physical yesterday. Vet called today and said he had it. Hopefully we caught it before it caused any damage.
I went through it with a dog some 25-30 yrs ago. That was successful!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Fancy name for heart worm. Thunder had his yearly physical yesterday. Vet called today and said he had it. Hopefully we caught it before it caused any damage.
> I went through it with a dog some 25-30 yrs ago. That was successful!


And since he has been on the meds, all I can say (for a reminder to all of us) is: Annual Exams Are a Very Good Thing.

In his condition and at his age, I imagine the vet is extremely optimistic......


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Is there a direct cause, or is this just something that happens?


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## Elly Elsenaar (Mar 27, 2006)

I have heard it comes because of a insect? a sandfly(zandvlieg). 

What can you do to prevent it?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I also heard it can come from mosquitos...

In the US most people give their dogs "HeartGard" once a month to prevent heartworms...

http://heartgard.us.merial.com/home/

But it sounds like Bobs dog was on a heartworm preventative anyway so it doesn't seem to have helped in his case?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The mosquito is the vector.
Yes, Thunder was on HeartGuard. Because he was, the vet told me that the HeartGuard folks will pay for the treatment. Hopefully, that's the case. How I need to prove that, I'm not sure other then the vet has records of my purchasing a 12month supply, one year ago at Thunder's last annual visit. 
I will probably change to a different monthly preventative when all this is past. 
He's young and strong. I have good hopes for a complete recovery.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Fancy name for heart worm. Thunder had his yearly physical yesterday. Vet called today and said he had it. Hopefully we caught it before it caused any damage.
> I went through it with a dog some 25-30 yrs ago. That was successful!


    Sorry, missed Bob's "fancy name for heart worm." Late night last night, I thought this was something different and/or weird. Crawling back into my hole now.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Bob Scott said:
> 
> 
> > Fancy name for heart worm. Thunder had his yearly physical yesterday. Vet called today and said he had it. Hopefully we caught it before it caused any damage.
> ...


Well, you can probably ignore any PMs you might've collected, then. :>D


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> The mosquito is the vector.
> Yes, Thunder was on HeartGuard. Because he was, the vet told me that the HeartGuard folks will pay for the treatment. Hopefully, that's the case. How I need to prove that, I'm not sure other then the vet has records of my purchasing a 12month supply, one year ago at Thunder's last annual visit.
> I will probably change to a different monthly preventative when all this is past.
> He's young and strong. I have good hopes for a complete recovery.


I just looked at their guarantee. It certainly appears that since a vet was prescribing it regularly and you were buying it from that vet, it is indeed guaranteed.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

In discussing this with my vet today, he commented that the manufacturere will probably NOT guarantee the product because they can't control the online products as to production date or shelf life. 
Moot point anyway. In looking back at my own records, ther was a gap in treating Thinder in the fall/winter. In this part of the country, it's said that winter treatment isn't necessary because of our hard winters. We've had a couple of really mild ones the past few years.   
Connie suggested that I ask the vet to match the online prices. The only reason I've bought them online is price.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> In discussing this with my vet today, he commented that the manufacturere will probably NOT guarantee the product because they can't control the online products as to production date or shelf life.
> Moot point anyway. In looking back at my own records, ther was a gap in treating Thinder in the fall/winter. In this part of the country, it's said that winter treatment isn't necessary because of our hard winters. We've had a couple of really mild ones the past few years.
> Connie suggested that I ask the vet to match the online prices. The only reason I've bought them online is price.


Let me suggest this to everyone: Ask your vet to match online prices.

The vet med houses claim that web sources sometimes carry outdated or even counterfeit products (which might well be exaggerated by the vet med houses, but what do I know?).

My own vet said to me when I mentioned getting products online that she would match web prices if I printed out the page with the date and price.

When I told people at my club this, several asked their vets about it and were told the same thing.

Naturally, the vet doesn't have a big sign in the waiting room about it, but I've discovered that it's common practice.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Bob, I had the same thing happen to a dog years ago and I don't miss a lick anymore. One silly month in the winter was what it took. 

My vet said the same thing about price matching

I have been giving Interceptor for several years and get an annual check anyway but no issues ... 

I think it is more forgiving on scheduling mishaps plus the fact that my dogs tend to sample (if I don't get to them quick enough) from other critters leavings in the woods.......and farm animals.....and it treats a host of intestinal worms.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

HW TX (treatment) is a pretty easy thing nowadays, the hardest part will be keeping Thunder quiet and calm during the tx. Many hospitals I worked at simply offered the owner to board the dog (at a TINY discount) during the treatments. Obviously (and intelligently) the owner opted out of this offer. Since there are between 4-5 treatments, boarding costs and the stress on the dog will be more than you bargained for.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Are you supposed to run a second test to make sure in a heartworm situation?. Sorry about your dog Bob, hope he gets better quick,
AL


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks for all the support everyone!
Thunder will definately be staying home. Being retired, there ain't no way I could handle boarding him during treatment. Luckily I'm only 5 mins from the vet. He's usually pretty calm when he's in the house for an hour or so in the evening. We'll see when he spends the whole day/night. Nightime around here is when all the action is. Hope the wrong neighbors don't miss his "whupa$$" bark! Shotgun and 00 ready at the back door.   :wink: 
I just got back from the vet for his second blood test. They told me it was to eliminate any false positive from the first test. Still, another $130. Better get used to that. :roll: 
Because of the weekend, it looks like Monday we'll start treatment.


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## Carol Silrum (May 9, 2006)

Hi Bob,
So sorry to hear about Thunder. Good luck keeping him quiet in the house. Maybe a big bone would help! 

Boy those vet bills can eat you up. We just went through $4,000 in tests for my Mom's cat!!! Ouch! That is more than a 1/3 of her annual income! Good thing she lives with us and can afford it. 

Hope all goes well for you.

~Carol


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob, so sorry to hear about Thunder. He is such a young, strong dog, & with the way you care for your dogs, I would be surprised if he didn't make a full recovery. I myself, use Revolution for the dog.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Tonight was my first night at training without Thunder since he was 12 wks old. It sucked! 
Now I just have to control myself and not run the poor Presa pup in the ground. Everyone at training tells me I NEED two dog to keep up with my ADHD.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Tonight was my first night at training without Thunder since he was 12 wks old. It sucked!
> Now I just have to control myself and not run the poor Presa pup in the ground. Everyone at training tells me I NEED two dog to keep up with my ADHD.


You're right: the tough part is keepin' them quiet.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Treatment starts Monday. Two days. One shot each day. Best part is only 4 weeks recovery time.
Monday, I'll also set up appointments for the two old terriers to be tested. They were on the same schedule! :roll:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

I swear this forum is eating posts today....

Does anyone know when they "calibrated" those treatment zones and guidelines for heartworm treatment across various parts of the US?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> I swear this forum is eating posts today....
> 
> Does anyone know when they "calibrated" those treatment zones and guidelines for heartworm treatment across various parts of the US?


Which one?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > I swear this forum is eating posts today....
> ...


Any of them. I used to be in the energy industry...fact of the matter is, the last ten years have been much warmer and/or less predictable than anytime in modern history...especially where Bob lives and where I live. I'm not saying there woudl be this dramatic shift but I can certainly see where a few weeks for better or worse might be adjusted.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Connie Sutherland said:
> 
> 
> > Woody Taylor said:
> ...


The charts are almost moot. Do you know about what happened in Salt Lake City?

Mosquitoes don't live in the desert, right?  

Salt Lake Citywas classified non-endemic for heartworm. 

Then an urban renewal project in the 90s resulted in new trees all over the city. 

The next spring, when they were pruned, there were knot-holes in Salt Lake city. Aedes sierrensis moved in and heartworm cases started. Salt Lake City is now considered to be as bad for heartworm as Texas, Louisiana, and Florida, Maryland, Georgia........

It doesn't even take a climate shift (natural or manmade), although a climate shift is definitely enough to change/enhance the habitats for all kinds of mosquitos.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

P.S. Aedes sierrensis is a "tree-hole" mosquito, I think is the term.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > Connie Sutherland said:
> ...


Is there any health issues with treating year-round? I mean, there's no reason for me to do that in MN, but I'd forget if I tried to pick and choose...I just started treating her a few months ago, right through winter, regardless.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Heartworm was originally almost exclusively a Southern problem. My first contact with it was in the 70s here. Back then we were told it wasn't needed during the winter months. That change (unknown to me  ) in the mid 80s when they started recommending year round treatment in this area. 
In talking with my vet, he said most stray dogs will test positive now. Also a big problem with the coyotes around here. (Lots)
The river system, in particular the Mississippi had a lot to do with it's spread north. As the crow flies, I'm about 1 1/2-2 miles from the Mississippi.
We've also had some abnormally mild winters the last few years.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I treat year-round.

There is heartworm in Alaska now. Southern California's desert region is now dotted with heartworm cases. 

As Woody suggested, data lag behind actual cases, and I don't read the charts any longer. The Salt Lake City thing wasn't discovered and reported widely for almost two years after the cases started.

BTW, the Heartgard length-of-protection is actually close to 6 weeks, per my vet; the one-month RX is to ensure total coverage even if you forget a dose and are a few days late (or to sell more, or both).


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I will definately do year round FOREVER!


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I treat year-round.
> 
> There is heartworm in Alaska now. Southern California's desert region is now dotted with heartworm cases.
> 
> ...


I do my dogs year round here in the States and I treat every 40 days. You can actually go to 45, but I do that so I don't miss a dose or forget (5 day leeway).

I'm sorry about Thunder, Bob. That treatment is expensive and difficult on the dog. I wish him a full recovery!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob, sorry to hear about your dog contracting heartworm. Heartguard did pay for one of ours that contracted the worm. All we had to prove was his vet records. He was on preventative 12 months each year. In the south it's important to do that. Hopefully they've discovered it before any damage was done and he'll make full recovery. The dog we had treated, a lab, suffered no ill effects, so hopefull all will work out for you. I would have read this sooner, but I kind of avoid this section because I'm afraid I'll get caught up in a raw feeding cult or something. (no offense anyone).

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Bob, sorry to hear about your dog contracting heartworm. Heartguard did pay for one of ours that contracted the worm. All we had to prove was his vet records. He was on preventative 12 months each year. In the south it's important to do that. Hopefully they've discovered it before any damage was done and he'll make full recovery. The dog we had treated, a lab, suffered no ill effects, so hopefull all will work out for you. I would have read this sooner, but I kind of avoid this section because I'm afraid I'll get caught up in a raw feeding cult or something. (no offense anyone).
> 
> DFrost


Thanks for the concern David. 
Yea! Ya gotta watch out for some strange folks around here. :lol: :lol: :lol:  DUCK!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

QUOTE: Thanks for the concern David. 
Yea! Ya gotta watch out for some strange folks around here. DUCK! END QUOTE

MOD NOTE

Mod Bob, Mod David, check your PMs. :evil: 


(Kidding)


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Mod Bob, Mod David, check your PMs. :evil:
> 
> 
> (Kidding)


She sent you a large, rotting piece of lung.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie, ya got me good on that one!    
Until I saw the (kidding) at the bottom, all I could think of was "OH $#!+"! I done it this time! :lol: :roll: :lol: :roll:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Connie, ya got me good on that one!
> Until I saw the (kidding) at the bottom, all I could think of was "OH $#!+"! I done it this time! :lol: :roll: :lol: :roll:


Wow! I didn't know I was that scary! This is cool! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog".   :wink: ....   ....  Duckin again!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Connie Sutherland said:
> 
> 
> > Mod Bob, Mod David, check your PMs. :evil:
> ...


Oh, would that we COULD put "enclosures" in some PMs! 

Back to heartworm. 

Is there anyone here who does NOT use prevention year-round? 

How about after after reading this thread?


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## Carol Silrum (May 9, 2006)

I'm in the San Diego area of Calif. We don't use Heartgard at all. My vet tends to be more "natural" and says it's better to treat the illness than to put those chemicals in them. Not sure heartworm is very common out here. It's worked so far, but I'd sure hate to go through what Bob is going through!!

I have a GSD and a Decker Terrier. 

~Carol


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Carol, I gotta say that pumping arsnic into a dog isn't what I'd call natural. That's what the treatment calls for. Going through this, I doubt you could talk me into a wait and see attitude. 
I would be curious as to the heartworm problems in your area that your vet opts for this direction.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Carol, I gotta say that pumping arsnic into a dog isn't what I'd call natural. That's what the treatment calls for. Going through this, I doubt you could talk me into a wait and see attitude.
> I would be curious as to the heartworm problems in your area that your vet opts for this direction.


San Diego has much less than many areas, but the primary vector of dog heartworm in Southern California, Aedes sierrensis, certainly does exist in San Diego.

Most cases in that area occur after a dog has traveled outside the area and been infected elsewhere, but not all.

I'm a firm believer in no unnecessary vaccinations, no "boosters," etc. But that doesn't extend to heartworm, for me. The Salt Lake City story was more than enough. That's desert --- with a heartworm epidemic. And there are still people there who believe that they don't need heartworm prevention, because they never used to, and it took a couple of years before the epidemic was recognized, and even now, if someone hasn't read it or heard it, then they still don't know.

There is no area of this country where there have not been heartworm cases. Maybe we have to educate our vets....


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## Carol Silrum (May 9, 2006)

Bob,
That does sound like a pretty bad "treatment" -- I'm going to call him tomorrow and discuss.
I'm certainly willing to start giving them Heartgurd ASAP! And don't short haired dogs like my Decker get bit more often??

Thanks again for your knowledge!

~Carol


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Carol Silrum said:


> Bob,
> That does sound like a pretty bad "treatment" -- I'm going to call him tomorrow and discuss.
> I'm certainly willing to start giving them Heartgurd ASAP! And don't short haired dogs like my Decker get bit more often??
> 
> ...


Not sure if the length of hair has anything to do with it. The skeeters can still bite the dog's nose. They are attracted to our face by the carbon dioxide we breathe. I would guess it's the same with dogs.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Heartworm was originally almost exclusively a Southern problem. My first contact with it was in the 70s here. Back then we were told it wasn't needed during the winter months. .


I was in high school in Fla in the early 70s and worked for a Vet. Back then the recommendation was to give daily caricide but that was several generations of HW medicine ago. 

I saw a number of advanced cases of HW and it was horrible - dogs struggling for every breath, edema, coughing up blood. By then there is pretty much no hope. Caught early and treated, the dog can live a healthy life but the dog must be very healthy to survive the treatment in the first place.

I also worked at the UGA vet school right after college and worked for a vet doing heartworm research -- doing necropsies on dogs they had intentionally infected with heartworms (the "non-controls" for a clinical trial on Filaribits) was enough to convince me........

Even so, we had one dog come up HW positive (I medicate AND test annually!!!) due to negligence on my part , but he was a young (5 yo) healthy dog who lived to be 15 after the treatment.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

> BTW, the Heartgard length-of-protection is actually close to 6 weeks, per my vet; the one-month RX is to ensure total coverage even if you forget a dose and are a few days late (or to sell more, or both).


This is true, but if you don't give it every 4 weeks, as directed on the label, the guarantee is null and void; the company will not pay for treatment should your dog contract heartworms.

I do my dogs every 6 weeks, and use an extremely low dose of ivermevtin.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> > BTW, the Heartgard length-of-protection is actually close to 6 weeks, per my vet; the one-month RX is to ensure total coverage even if you forget a dose and are a few days late (or to sell more, or both).
> 
> 
> This is true, but if you don't give it every 4 weeks, as directed on the label, the guarantee is null and void; the company will not pay for treatment should your dog contract heartworms.....


Good point........ really, I just meant not to panic if ever you forgot for a few days and then gave the dose.

But yes, the guarantee is important, as we are seeing first-hand with Bob.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

MAN it took a long time for the 'post reply' window to open!



> really, I just meant not to panic if ever you forgot for a few days and then gave the dose.


I know; I was just pointing out the part about the guarantee, though I have no idea how they could prove when you actually gave the dog the pill. :|


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> MAN it took a long time for the 'post reply' window to open!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They can't; you're right!

The guarantee is based on buying the 12 dosages during the 12-month period at the vet's office, where the records are maintained to prove the sale.


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