# Neutral dog...



## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Anyone else have one of these? Mine is 6 months old and neutral to me and most other people. He doesn't care to be petted or loved on really, he doesn't have much of an interest in being my 'friend'. If I have a ball he will play with me until he collapses but otherwise he is very "M'eh" about me. He's got a lot of drive and is always bouncing off the walls, and has a lot of aggression. He's got great nerve and nothing phases him which is a big plus. I guess I don't really need that 'loving feeling' for sport but it would be nice if he at least cared if I (the person who feeds him $75 a bag dog food) was around or not. 8-[


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## Benjamin Allanson (May 2, 2008)

maybe you guys need more QT.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't need that "loving feeling" either but I do want a dog with focus on me. If not he gets a "transfer" ticket on his butt


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

georgia estes said:


> He doesn't care to be petted or loved on really, he doesn't have much of an interest in being my 'friend'. If I have a ball he will play with me until he collapses but otherwise he is very "M'eh" about me. He's got a lot of drive and is always bouncing off the walls, and has a lot of aggression. -[


Uhhh, if you need to find him a good home, I might be able to help.............


DFrost


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

The malinois I know are the opposite, they think they are lap dogs who believe your lap is not close enough and if they push harder they can actually get closer.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Georgia when in training does he care care less about you as well? That would be a real problem if he is not focused on you.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Uhhh, if you need to find him a good home, I might be able to help.............
> 
> 
> DFrost


 
LOL, yeah me too. Nuetral is great in my eyes. A dog works cause he wants to or was trained to, doesn't need all the praise and what not, however later with certain bloodlines can be rather frustrating.

On another note, nuetral only to people or other things as well? A confident strong nuetral dog can go a long way...........


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Shane Woodlief said:


> Georgia when in training does he care care less about you as well? That would be a real problem if he is not focused on you.


 
When I have the toy he is 100% focused but he is a very confident dog and doesn't seek out praise and stuff. He just wants to do whatever it takes to get that damn ball and then run off with it, or play fetch either one. No ball = screw you Georgia. It really doesnt have to be a ball though, whatever I have is good enough, he just wants to possess something. Ball, pipe, piece of a leaf.... lol


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> LOL, yeah me too. Nuetral is great in my eyes. A dog works cause he wants to or was trained to, doesn't need all the praise and what not, however later with certain bloodlines can be rather frustrating.
> 
> On another note, nuetral only to people or other things as well? A confident strong nuetral dog can go a long way...........


 
He is quite neutral to other people. It takes a lot to get him to come over and be petted. He definitely isn't afraid of you, he's just whatever to people. Put a sleeve on or a suit and he will pay attention no worries there.  What do you mean neutral to other things? Like distractions? He isn't spooky at all. Loud noises, water, psa distraction stuff doesn't phase him at all. Matter of fact he attacked the vacuume yesterday viciously. He just doesn't have that 'man's best friend' attitude. 8) He's like... can I bite you? If the answer is no then you're useless to me.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Uhhh, if you need to find him a good home, I might be able to help.............
> 
> 
> DFrost


bawhahahaha :mrgreen: the first time the bastard puts me in the hospital you can have him, if he survives the bat to the head


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> *LOL, yeah me too. Nuetral is great in my eyes*. A dog works cause he wants to or was trained to, doesn't need all the praise and what not, however later with certain bloodlines can be rather frustrating.
> 
> On another note, nuetral only to people or other things as well? A confident strong nuetral dog can go a long way...........



Don't agree here. This has nothing to do with confidence or strong character. Neutral to environment and other people is great but I want a dog that would give his life for me. I don't want him to need me, HE has to be there when I need HIM 
Also I hate dogs that adapt to a new handler just like that. I prefer "one handler dogs".


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Martine Loots said:


> Don't agree here. This has nothing to do with confidence or strong character. Neutral to environment and other people is great but I want a dog that would give his life for me. I don't want him to need me, HE has to be there when I need HIM
> Also I hate dogs that adapt to a new handler just like that. I prefer "one handler dogs".


 
We can disagree then, and I didnt say a nuetral dog is a strong and confident one. I do mean in my eyes a strong confident nuetral dog can go a long way...

Thats what I mean the not wanting to need praise/me, but to do everything for me. One handler dogs, me too! So we agree on that anyway! :-k


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't get it how you manage to combine "neutral" (which I would describe as "indifferent") and "one handler dog"??


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

I can understand however that one would like a dog to be neutral if you are training him with the intention of selling him afterwards.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

My dog was like that, still is to some degree. But he's come around a lot in the last year or so.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

I think I have this all figured out. Maybe he is a robot.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Just talking about this the other day... My husbands dog is similar. He likes my husband enough, but anyone else is useless unless its to his advantage. Anytime I try to sneak a pet in:twisted:, he will bolt searching for a toy that we can play with... he will "use" me to his liking but if I just want to love on him (or anyone else) he doesnt have any use for it and definitely doesnt seek it and no he is not afraid of me he just doest "need" me lol. 

t


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

interesting, was just talking about the 'will to please' on my castor bloodline thread


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

have ball will please


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

georgia estes said:


> have ball will please


If you can control the reward, you can control the behavior. ha ha.

I don't know all the fancy words, but my offer still stands. 

DFrost


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> When I have the toy he is 100% focused but he is a very confident dog and doesn't seek out praise and stuff. He just wants to do whatever it takes to get that damn ball and then run off with it, or play fetch either one. No ball = screw you Georgia. It really doesnt have to be a ball though, whatever I have is good enough, he just wants to possess something. Ball, pipe, piece of a leaf.... lol


Oh my gosh totally missed this.... yes can def. relate lol. 

t


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Matt Grosch said:


> interesting, was just talking about the 'will to please' on my castor bloodline thread


Can you explain your definition of "the will to please"? 

t


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

tracey delin said:


> Oh my gosh totally missed this.... yes can def. relate lol.
> 
> t


 
If I can't find his ball I just yank off a leaf or a stick or a rock or something...works great hahahaha


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

georgia estes said:


> have ball will please


I do...


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> If I can't find his ball I just yank off a leaf or a stick or a rock or something...works great hahahaha


we're using a double handled tug now, that he never gets to possess.... that keeps him around lol, unless of course its me and then Im on the ground...:-$


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

You can reverse the situation if you start teaching the dog that you are fun versus the ball or toy.


Just rewarding the dog with a toy is not what you want to shoot for. You want the dog to look to you for fun. 

I think on another thread that I discussed playing fetch with two balls. You should start playing this game with your dog. The only thing you want to do is keep a long line on him, so that you can pull him towards you. As soon as he gets close enough to you, pull the other ball out from hiding and throw it for him. Make sure you tell him to out the other ball before throwing the ball. 

Play this game a couple of times a day and your dog will start paying more attention to you. Throw the ball only 2-3 times. I would take every toy away from the dog and only play this game with him. You will become the center of his universe. 

The goal is to have the dog do OB for you without any toy seen by the dog.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Yes of course , most of our "keep away" problems have come in the form of him making a toy out of just about anything.... so a stick, a sock, a whatever he can find fast laying around..... our dog does well with two ball....for as long as he wants, but he does much better with a more physical interaction and an increase in that has helped tons... for me Im just not strong enough for the physical and he doesnt care about me much anyway so we still have our "issues", there is no doubt he is my husbands dog.

t


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Georgia, my dog who isn't a prick ear is like this as well. I call it aloof or I think as Martine called it, indifference. I'm not crazy about this quality because the things she's most interested in took me a while to figure out how I could make them interactive so we could have some sort of relationship. If she had toy drive or a strong desire to possess almost any object we probably could have had something better to work with.

I found that spending too much time with her made this indifference to me greater. It's an odd dynamic and to be honest with you it was the absence of a relationship with her that sparked and held my interest in scent based activities. It's what she likes to do, she's nosey and likes to work at a distance from me so it fits her character well. Her original reward? Food. Oddly, once I changed the type of things I did with her I found a will to please surface. Now I actually see an engaging reaction when I praise her. If you can imagine took me 3 years to get to this point. Go figure.

Oh and she likes to hunt now too.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

There was a great KNPV dog somewhat like this.His owner said in an interview the dog never wagged his tail.
But they got the job done,this was before e collars .


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

jack van strien said:


> There was a great KNPV dog somewhat like this.His owner said in an interview the dog never wagged his tail.
> But they got the job done,this was before e collars .


 
Mine wags his tail VERY rarely and it's usually just a slow semi-wag. :???:


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## Joo-Ryong Kim (Oct 8, 2010)

Does he like to bring toys back to you? I can appreciate a neutral dog as in one that's disinterested in other people. It's better than one that's too friendly. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to teach the dog that the handler is fun to be with. You just gotta be super excited with him, and limit his play time with just you. Soon enough, you're dog should be jumping all over you for being gone a few minutes.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Not to derail this from Georgia's question about her dog. But spending less time with my dog really didn't work all that well. I don't think I saw her tail wag until I spayed her. It does when I feed her though or when she's after something in the weeds. 

Heck, I just took her for a walk and off she went, further and further away until she reached the fence which she climbed under and roamed off further away until I couldn't see her anymore. She wants obstacles, stuff to dig in, and just anything new to check out. I walked her past a torn up road and her primary interest was in checking out the rubble, new walls, compactors, etc. I wish I had a junk yard or a farm for her to roam about in.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Ive had a few dogs like this. Making "me" fun isn't really possible. They're all business, per se. Ive found a couple of things... One, this changes sometimes with age. At 5-6+, I started to see more affectionate nature in the dog. Secondly, (and this will go directly against the "make you fun" approach) with some dogs Ive found that placing correctly-applied compulsion increased their attentiveness to me. Not in a fearful manner at all, but they needed to respect me, not find me "fun". When I *demanded* their respect (obviously, Im talking adult dogs, not puppies), I got it. 

And lastly, sometimes it is just a matter of that right match. One of my first working dogs was given to me to "learn on" by a friend. I was 18 I think; and he was a Sch3, 7yo Male GSD that I was specifically told "was not much for bonding". I jumped into handling him and fairly quickly started hearing remarks about how different he was with me. Apparently, he just took a liking to the dumb kid that fed him stuff and thought she was bossing him around. God knows, we've all see dogs react differently to different individual people! 
Granted... he's YOUR dog so one of you just has to suck it up


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> *Heck, I just took her for a walk and off she went*, further and further away until she reached the fence which she climbed under and roamed off further away until I couldn't see her anymore. She wants obstacles, stuff to dig in, and just anything new to check out. I walked her past a torn up road and her primary interest was in checking out the rubble, new walls, compactors, etc. I wish I had a junk yard or a farm for her to roam about in.


 
Seriously, if she were my dog then I just let her run and never come back.
I don't want a dog to be like that. 
I like it very much that my dogs are indifferent towards other people (even towards my husband). But they must have a very strong bond with me and this bonding has to be in their character. They have to do it naturally. I'm not going to waste my time in trying to make them like me. I prefer to put that time in a dog that is worth it.

A'Tim was a very strong dog and not exactly the "teddybear" type that loves to hug and certainly not a will to please type, but he had a very strong bond with us. 
Bonding with a handler has nothing to do with will to please.


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

My older dog was like this as a yung dog, she was wery happy to work for toys ore treat. If you wanted to pett her you neaded to drag her to you and pett her  

Now when ses hmm around 6 years i think shes mutsh more of a lapp dog.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

I agree with Martine about messing with a dog indifferent to the handler.

If I could not get the dog to start changing behavior, I would not mess with the dog. Why wait years, when you could find another dog that is willing to work for you. The dog may be be a better fit for someone else.


Why even mess with a dog that is indifferent towards the handler? When you only have so much time in life, why mess with around animals not up to your standards?


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Jack, it might not be the dog. Tough to answer without seeing.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Jack Roberts said:


> Why even mess with a dog that is indifferent towards the handler? When you only have so much time in life, why mess with around animals not up to your standards?


I'd think the answer to this question would be pretty obvious. Why? Because it doesn't matter that much to me that she's like that. It only matters enough in that I make sure I do not have this quality in the next dog I get. Only "so much time" really isn't relevant here, not for me anyway. Lay that line on someone whose battling cancer or facing some other excepted demise. It's not like I need to repent for my sins of owning a dog like this and have only so much time to get it right. [-o<

Oh and Jack/Al, it's the dog. Her mother is exactly like mine in behavior except that she's worse.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi Georgia, is this one of Mike's pups? If so, have you asked him if others from the litter are like the little Demon Seed??? :razz:


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

On the one hand, couldn't a dog like this be a good learning experience? I could see some value in digging in and finding out what makes this dog (or this kind of dog) tick, how to build a relationship & bond with the dog, etc., etc. I'd be curious to hear how much you could build a strong relationship/bond with a dog like that.

On the other hand, I would always want a dog that was into me and had a strong bond. I like what Martine said. I want the dog to have a strong bond with me. I can learn to deal with stubbornness or finding ways to motivate the dog to do what I want it to or earn its respect, that's why I have trainers to help me out. But a dog that really didn't give two craps about me except as a Pez dispenser of food, toys, and agitators, I just don't think I would find as much enjoyment in that.

-Cheers


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Well the deal is, he is everything else I want in a dog. I think I'd be hard pressed to find a better one. He's got all the drive I have asked for in a dog, he's fearless, he's strong, he's beautiful, great nerve, super high intelligence, aggression, drive drive drive, full mouth bite right out of the whelping box. The neutral thing is his only downfall.

He is still a pup so hopefully he can change. He isn't afraid of anyone so I don't want people to get neutral confused with a shy dog because that's his exact opposite. He's so full of himself all it would take would be an alert command and a few taps on the back and he'd bite you for real, no questions asked. Don't get me wrong, I love this dog and I think he's going to make a hell of a PSA dog, he just isn't going to wag his tail 90 mph and lick my face which kind of sucks. :-k I guess you can't win them all.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

and yet people want great workers..........., I bet all the guys with the downright anti-social, no will to please, dogs are jealous of people with neutral dogs


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Nicole,

I think David made a good point. If you enjoy a dog bonded to you then you should find one. Owning a dog is about enjoyment not doing some type of penance. I disagree about life. You could die tomorrow and why stay in something that is not enjoyable, especially an animal. 

We just have different outlooks on life. Personally, I wasted some time on a dog and will not get back that year. I learned my lesson and just want to tell others that if you are not happy then do no keep the dog around. I believe in taking care of your own problems with an animal. If a suitable place is not found then you should put the dog down. If the dog has temperament problems, then definitely put the animal down. Please do not go drop it off at the SPCA, so that some unsuspecting person has a dangerous situation on their hands. 

Georgia,

Good dogs can be found if you take the time and look. If your dog is really good, then perhaps you could sell him as a green dog and get another dog, especially if you wait until he is a little older. 

Al,

You may have a point about the dog and handler. It is hard to tell when you are not there to see behaviors. If the dog has been taught that playing with toys is better than the handler than I might be able to see this behavior. Sometimes dogs and people just do not click.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jack Roberts said:


> You can reverse the situation if you start teaching the dog that you are fun versus the ball or toy.
> 
> 
> Just rewarding the dog with a toy is not what you want to shoot for. You want the dog to look to you for fun.
> ...



Two ball is definitely worth a try but is limited if the dog values the possession of the ball more then the game with the handler.
As you said
"Just rewarding the dog with a toy is not what you want to shoot for. You want the dog to look to you for fun". 
If the dog is possessive then once it has the reward the handler's value can drop to nothing.


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Martine Loots said:


> Also I hate dogs that adapt to a new handler just like that. I prefer "one handler dogs".


Hi Martine,
My pup does not allow other people to take her away from me in my presence. Like I pass the leash to my friend. Though, my pup knows these people and can play with. But, she will struggle to let loose from my friend and wanting to come back to me. Is this considered as one man dog ? Thanks.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Colin Chin said:


> Hi Martine,
> My pup does not allow other people to take her away from me in my presence. Like I pass the leash to my friend. Though, my pup knows these people and can play with. But, she will struggle to let loose from my friend and wanting to come back to me. Is this considered as one man dog ? Thanks.


Not Martine but it could just be separation anxiety!


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Two ball is definitely worth a try but is limited if the dog values the possession of the ball more then the game with the handler.


Hi Bob,
I use two ball training. With single ball, very difficult for my pup to come back to my side. She will take the ball and lying down somewhere and start chewing it. But, with two balls, my pup bring one ball in her mouth and come back to me because she sees that I have another ball with me. She will drop her ball when sitted in front of me automatically and wait for me to throw my ball so that she could chase after it. This process is repeated until I stop the game.

My question is: Is she looking at me for a game or seeing the ball in my hand as a game for her to grab once the ball is out of my hand ? Thanks.


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Not Martine but it could just be separation anxiety!


Hi Bob, I was thinking of this separation anxiety issue for a while too. How does a one man dog behaves like then ? Thanks.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Colin Chin said:


> Hi Bob,
> I use two ball training. With single ball, very difficult for my pup to come back to my side. She will take the ball and lying down somewhere and start chewing it. But, with two balls, my pup bring one ball in her mouth and come back to me because she sees that I have another ball with me. She will drop her ball when sitted in front of me automatically and wait for me to throw my ball so that she could chase after it. This process is repeated until I stop the game.
> 
> My question is: Is she looking at me for a game or seeing the ball in my hand as a game for her to grab once the ball is out of my hand ? Thanks.



Sounds like she likes the game. Get her to bring it to hand instead of drop it. That could create problems with the retrieve later.


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Sounds like she likes the game. Get her to bring it to hand instead of drop it. That could create problems with the retrieve later.


Hi Bob, how should prevent her ball from dropping off the ground instead of into my hand when told so ? Am I to run to her when she's running towards me at the same time just in time to prevent her ball in mouth from dropping ? Thanks.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Colin Chin said:


> Hi Bob, I was thinking of this separation anxiety issue for a while too. How does a one man dog behaves like then ? Thanks.


A lot of variables to answer that.
How is she when you leave he alone at home?
Is she clingy to you or just standoffish with strangers, especially in new areas?
Will she play games with other people while your there?
The one man dog usually has no interest at all in other folks at all unless it benefits them. food/toy/bite
Even then some have no use at all with strangers.
Not necessarily "needs" to get back to it's owner. Just doesn't give a crap about who else it may be with. 
The dog with problems will ofter whine and "need" to get back to it's owner. 
Still a hard call without actually seeing the dog in action.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Colin Chin said:


> Hi Bob, how should prevent her ball from dropping off the ground instead of into my hand when told so ? Am I to run to her when she's running towards me at the same time just in time to prevent her ball in mouth from dropping ? Thanks.


Are you marker training? 
If she drops it don't do anything till she picks it up again. Even if she show interest in the ball on the ground mark and reward at first. Baby steps!


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> A lot of variables to answer that.
> How is she when you leave he alone at home?
> Is she clingy to you or just standoffish with strangers, especially in new areas?
> Will she play games with other people while your there?
> ...


When I leave the home, she's ok, no whining nor noises. Guess, she knows. But, when our car or us get home, she will bark a lot wanting to come out.

She will play ball with other people as she's ball crazy than food. Between, food and ball or tug, she will grab the ball and tug. In new area, when circumstances allowed, I let her off leash. She will romp happily investigating and smelling. But, she will be like max 100 feet away from me where we can see or hear one another.

As with strangers, she will investigate slowly by sniffling around but cautious. But, it also depends on the strangers. Some strangers, whe can feel comfortable kind of behaviour. Once, she's ok, she will even jump on you even with a few guys around. But, if she does not like the person, she will stand or sit there while I do the talking thinking what's wrong with her.

Yeah, when she struggles she whines at the same time to come back to me. So far, I try not to let other people play with my pup. Am I doing the right thing or I need to socialise her more with people (strangers) ? Thanks.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Personally I would do a lot of socialization with her. 
That doesn't mean she needs to meet and greet folks, just be comfortable in their company. No need to be playing with them but that all depends on what your goals are with her. 
Sounds like she needs her confidence built a bit.


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Are you marker training?
> If she drops it don't do anything till she picks it up again. Even if she show interest in the ball on the ground mark and reward at first. Baby steps!


I marker train with the word, 'yes' if she does right.


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Personally I would do a lot of socialization with her.
> That doesn't mean she needs to meet and greet folks, just be comfortable in their company. No need to be playing with them but that all depends on what your goals are with her.
> Sounds like she needs her confidence built a bit.


Bob,
Would like you to give me some pointers on the socialisations part. I am at my wits end. I bring her quite a lot actually. But, I do agree her confidence level is that up to what I want. Hopefully, that will change. She's 11 months plus. Any hope on her ? Thanks.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

My DS, at 17 months is not particularly affectionate. Even as a puppy she was never clingy and had a bit of an independent streak. She lets me pet her, but she doesn't seek that kind of attention. She wants to do something with me... play ball or tug or go for a walk. She has moments of being cuddley in the morning when she sneaks up on the bed. I allow that because I like it. 

My friend has Goldens. They will nudge and paw and pester for attention. They will happily sit and be petted for hours. I find that annoying, though other people find it charming. If I wanted that kind of dog, I would have gotten one. I got a Dutchie. She is what she is, and I'm ok with that.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Colin Chin said:


> Hi Bob, I was thinking of this separation anxiety issue for a while too. How does a one man dog behaves like then ? Thanks.


 
I don't consider it separation anxiety at all. Dogs know who they belong to. Even that wiggle butt corgi of mine who LOVES everybody will do a double take if I walk off and leave her with someone. I can say stay and she's cool but she is watching for my return and my friends say they aren't so interesting after I walk off. I don't know about mals and dutchies but any GSD I raised had one person--ME. They were 100% reliable in public and went everywhere but you weren't going to walk off with one of them and they didn't take corrections and handling from someone else. Hubby and I can manage each other's dogs but there is a difference in how they perform. Social to me means judgment. They are generally aloof [don't care to get their social needs from strangers] but absolutely safe with children and ignore adults in public. What I've generally seen with most of mine iis they accept pets but really kinda act like the person doesn't exist. I've had a couple that were more friendly than aloof but were still didn't tolerate any stupid overtures towards me. In terms of the OP, when I was inquiring about a kelpie a few years ago, a friend told me that hers was a great worker but she finally placed it because it just didn't care whether she existed or not. It made me think about companion/work dog vs. work dog that outside the work, you didn't really relate to it at all. I could see David and maybe Suttle having a lot of use for this type of dog in military/police work if you could keep them motivated like the one described. 

Terrasita


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

georgia estes said:


> Anyone else have one of these? Mine is 6 months old and neutral to me and most other people. He doesn't care to be petted or loved on really, he doesn't have much of an interest in being my 'friend'. If I have a ball he will play with me until he collapses but otherwise he is very "M'eh" about me. He's got a lot of drive and is always bouncing off the walls, and has a lot of aggression. He's got great nerve and nothing phases him which is a big plus. I guess I don't really need that 'loving feeling' for sport but it would be nice if he at least cared if I (the person who feeds him $75 a bag dog food) was around or not. 8-[


I've had 2 dogs like this . Both were good workers and that was great but they were frustrating when it came to down time and just wanting a pet to hang out with .


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I don't consider it separation anxiety at all. Dogs know who they belong to. Even that wiggle butt corgi of mine who LOVES everybody will do a double take if I walk off and leave her with someone. I can say stay and she's cool but she is watching for my return and my friends say they aren't so interesting after I walk off. I don't know about mals and dutchies but any GSD I raised had one person--ME. They were 100% reliable in public and went everywhere but you weren't going to walk off with one of them and they didn't take corrections and handling from someone else. Hubby and I can manage each other's dogs but there is a difference in how they perform. Social to me means judgment. They are generally aloof [don't care to get their social needs from strangers] but absolutely safe with children and ignore adults in public. What I've generally seen with most of mine iis they accept pets but really kinda act like the person doesn't exist. I've had a couple that were more friendly than aloof but were still didn't tolerate any stupid overtures towards me. In terms of the OP, when I was inquiring about a kelpie a few years ago, a friend told me that hers was a great worker but she finally placed it because it just didn't care whether she existed or not. It made me think about companion/work dog vs. work dog that outside the work, you didn't really relate to it at all. I could see David and maybe Suttle having a lot of use for this type of dog in military/police work if you could keep them motivated like the one described.
> 
> Terrasita


Terrasita,
My pup does not cling on to me in the house or outside when I set her loose. But, she's always within my sight. She will wonder off, sniffing on the ground and wonder off but not long she will come running towards me. Once, she's done with me, she wonders off again. her recall is good, no issue, one call or whistle she will come running for me. She likes to be pet by me with her lying down with her belly up, that's because I allow her to do it at times. Something like once a day when I get home. She will play with people she wants to but one move by me, she will drop and comes back to me.


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## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

I too will offer to take your "robot", sound like the dog I imagine everytime I want a new one! How'd you get so lucky?


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Kat LaPlante said:


> I too will offer to take your "robot", sound like the dog I imagine everytime I want a new one! How'd you get so lucky?


Whose dog are you referring to in this thread ?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> Anyone else have one of these? Mine is 6 months old and neutral to me and most other people. He doesn't care to be petted or loved on really, he doesn't have much of an interest in being my 'friend'. If I have a ball he will play with me until he collapses but otherwise he is very "M'eh" about me. He's got a lot of drive and is always bouncing off the walls, and has a lot of aggression. He's got great nerve and nothing phases him which is a big plus. I guess I don't really need that 'loving feeling' for sport but it would be nice if he at least cared if I (the person who feeds him $75 a bag dog food) was around or not. 8-[


I couldn't have this, there's nothing like a waging tail and a exited dog waiting to greet you when you come home it was one of the things I missed the most when cancer took my previous dog Echo.
I'm not a fan of being licked but if I didn't have to fight Jett off from trying to get on my lap or trying to lick me when I'm watching TV or on the computer I would have to question his temperament or how could I have put this dog off me so far.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Colin Chin said:


> Whose dog are you referring to in this thread ?


 
She is talking about my dog because I called him a robot because he doesn't have strong emotions.


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## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> She is talking about my dog because I called him a robot because he doesn't have strong emotions.


 
If I didn't love my husband so much I'd say I would trade you your robot for mine, he's super hot!!


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Kat LaPlante said:


> If I didn't love my husband so much I'd say I would trade you your robot for mine, he's super hot!!


 
hahaha hmmm evil dog for hot husband.... hehe \\/ I've got one too, hot husband but he doesn't like my demon dog.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

If Mike or somebody else familiar with the dog/line has chimed in I missed it, but does this kind of dog ever develop a bond through working, building trust/respect/bond, or just as part of the maturation process, or is that pretty much what you've got temperamentally-wise in this kind of dog? Just asking out of casual curiosity.

-Cheers


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

David, I have had a lot of males that wouldn't even get up and come to me when I went outside. They were extremely aloof. If I came out with a gun in hand, I was their best friend because they knew it was hunt time. One in particualar, Winchester, was like this and he is my foundation dog. The hunt was what he lived for and one time he grabbed a 350 lb wounded bear by the face as it came out of the tree. Needless to say he was getting his ass kicked and was layed up for three mo because the bear got him by the right front leg and did considerable damage while he worked the bears face over. I got into the middle of the fracass and put a 44 against the bears back and killed it. He knew he was in trouble and saving him made myself and him hunting partners. He listened better, worked with me instead of himself. Was a great all around dog, but, he just never needed my attention as far as petting and buddy type stuff. I think many really strong dogs are like this. You see it in people also. I would say they are harder to get to do things your way, but, they get the job at hand done nomally.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Don, that's real interesting you mentioned that about saving your dog and what occurred within the relationship afterwords. That same thing happened to me with one of my male DDB (similar character as you described with your own dog) interestingly enough this took place also on a day a bear was treed and killed. A number of things occurred after that and he nearly died from heat stroke. I know you don't need to imagine how something like that goes out in BFE, here you have a dog is virtually dying right in right of you and all you can do is whatever comes to mind and hope it works. Anyway, that one day changed everything. 

This dog I have now, once I get her out of town she's a different dog. Bring out a gun, ATV, tools, tractor, etc anything that really gets her moving and physical or mentally stimulated and she's your best friend. Hell, as foolish as it might sound to some people, last summer when a lilac was planted for my old dog who I had just put down, guess who was there in the middle helping dig that hole? My dog, Willow.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Wait, we're trading husbands for dogs now? Hmmmm...

Mines 30, kind of short (5 ft 6) but good looking, stable job with insurance, gone most of the time...

What can I trade for that? 

I know what you mean about having a dog that could give a rats ass about you, but if you have a toy you're their best friend. The male GSD is that way. My female is not. She's bonded with me. I prefer a dog that works for me because they want to please me, not because I have something they want too.


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## Martin Koops (Oct 15, 2009)

Had a female Rottweiler that was not affectionate on the surface but when a 650kg steer came at me she did not hesitate. She launch her self off the ground and hit the steer right in the face putting the steer on its backside. There is no doubt she saved me from serious physical injury, because the steer was coming at me very very fast. 

The dog was very minimal in displays of affection but I never doubted the bond. 

For those interested in the steer he was fine apart from seeing stars for a brief period of time.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

(applause)

And now for a brief announcement.

Nicole has officially achieved Landshark status today (with Willow's permission of course).


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Martin Koops said:


> Had a female Rottweiler that was not affectionate on the surface but when a 650kg steer came at me she did not hesitate. She launch her self off the ground and hit the steer right in the face putting the steer on its backside. There is no doubt she saved me from serious physical injury, because the steer was coming at me very very fast.
> 
> The dog was very minimal in displays of affection but I never doubted the bond.
> 
> For those interested in the steer he was fine apart from seeing stars for a brief period of time.


:-\"


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> :-\"


LOL.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> (applause)
> 
> And now for a brief announcement.
> 
> Nicole has officially achieved Landshark status today (with Willow's permission of course).


And the crowd goes wild =D> \\/ =D> Congrats Nicole!!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Candy Eggert said:


> And the crowd goes wild =D> \\/ =D> Congrats Nicole!!


LOL, great! I was hoping someone would play along. \\/


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Wait, we're trading husbands for dogs now? Hmmmm...
> 
> Mines 30, kind of short (5 ft 6) but good looking, stable job with insurance, gone most of the time...
> 
> ...


 
Hahaha now we're in the husband trading business! I had to get a tall one though because I am 5'11. Mine is 35, 6'3, 200lbs, tan, college degreed....hates my dogs = deal breaker for most girls on here HAHAHAHA


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh I forgot to mention, mine LOVES dogs. Short is ok for me, I'm only 5 ft 2.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> I had to get a tall one though because I am 5'11.


Note to self: Georgia is a monster. ha ha. Seriously, I wouldn't have ever guessed you were that tall. I mean it's not like I noticed huge monster hands when you were petting the rabbits in your last video.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Note to self: Georgia is a monster. ha ha. Seriously, I wouldn't have ever guessed you were that tall. I mean it's not like I noticed huge monster hands when you were petting the rabbits in your last video.


 
lol I have very long, thin hands and feet. No monster with Fred Flintstone hands here here.  I make my dogs look a lot smaller than they are because I am so gargantuan tall.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> lol I have very long, thin hands and feet.


Course Friday Nicole finds this funny. I remember once I borrowed a pair of my grandma's shoes. I was like 8 and the shoe was like a banana peel with laces on me. My foot took up only like half of the shoe but they were so tight on my feet it made me wonder what was wrong with my grandma that her feet were shaped like that (long and thin). Probably the same thing that was wrong with her that made her pretend to be dead once. I still don't know why she did that. Maybe she just didn't want to get up from her nap.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> David, I have had a lot of males that wouldn't even get up and come to me when I went outside. They were extremely aloof. If I came out with a gun in hand, I was their best friend because they knew it was hunt time. One in particualar, Winchester, was like this and he is my foundation dog. The hunt was what he lived for and one time he grabbed a 350 lb wounded bear by the face as it came out of the tree. Needless to say he was getting his ass kicked and was layed up for three mo because the bear got him by the right front leg and did considerable damage while he worked the bears face over. I got into the middle of the fracass and put a 44 against the bears back and killed it. He knew he was in trouble and saving him made myself and him hunting partners. He listened better, worked with me instead of himself. Was a great all around dog, but, he just never needed my attention as far as petting and buddy type stuff. I think many really strong dogs are like this. You see it in people also. I would say they are harder to get to do things your way, but, they get the job at hand done nomally.


Hey Don, that's kind of what I was wondering. Granted, saving your dog during a bear-fight is perhaps an extreme way of going about it.  But I know of trainers doing things to get the dog's trust and respect and to help the bond grow. The impression I've got is you can sort of bring out that trait, but to what extent I couldn't say so others can feel free to agree or disagree based on their experience since this is third-hand info at this time.

Do you think you & Winchester, or your aloof dogs in general, still had a bond but remained aloof (pre-bear incident)? I guess I just want the dog to give a crap about me. I am fine with aloof-to-attention-whore, but if the dog really really didn't care about me or have any bond with me, I'd probably find it kind of unfulfilling. If it was a means of earning the dog's respect, similar to people that are that way of the strong, stoic variety, that seems a bit different (to me anyway). But my experience with those types of dogs are second-hand so take it for whatever that's worth, but I have heard of dogs like that (not overly affectionate, work-orientated, but a lot still seemed to bond well with their owners/handlers/family/whatever).

-Cheers


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## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Wait, we're trading husbands for dogs now? Hmmmm...
> 
> Mines 30, kind of short (5 ft 6) but good looking, stable job with insurance, gone most of the time...
> 
> ...


Insurance and gone most of the time.........hmmmm........heavy price tag on that one I'm sure. I'd be asking for an a** kicking DS that bit first and thought later and had a MR3


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