# East German Shepherds



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

What are some of the faults you're finding with the old East German lines of German Shepherds? We're not talking kennels here!!!:-#


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Not necessarily a fault but less prey and more defense isn't uncommon. Sharper also.
The problem is that the wall has been down for a while now and I have no idea if there are still and pure lines anymore. 
The old Czech lines were very similar from my understanding.
The WG x Czech cross has become fairly common now. Both my GSDs are from different lines but both are WG x Czech cross.
You will always find the "Not my EG dog" comment so I make a somewhat generalized statement.


----------



## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

While the word fault is subjective, one thing I've noticed is that they seem to be slower to "wake up". I've got some very good friends who have a stud dog from the old east German lines. He's a very nice dog and produces nice offspring, but he was slower to wake up. Now he's a beast. I've noticed that same thing in other east German lines, just a little slower for all the gears to kick in. I'm sure that's not the case in all of the east German lines but has been in all the ones I've seen in person. I agree with Bob as well: I've seen noticably less prey and more defense. Not necessarily a bad thing, just the difference in the lines.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Interesting article
http://www.altostland.com/sdg.html


----------



## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Bob Scott said:


> Not necessarily a fault but less prey and more defense isn't uncommon. Sharper also.
> The problem is that the wall has been down for a while now and I have no idea if there are still and pure lines anymore.
> The old Czech lines were very similar from my understanding.
> The WG x Czech cross has become fairly common now. Both my GSDs are from different lines but both are WG x Czech cross.
> You will always find the "Not my EG dog" comment so I make a somewhat generalized statement.


My old bitch that passed recently was a WGxCzech cross, both parents imported. She was a smaller dog (70 lb) and that is a pretty accurate description, low prey and plenty of defense. Kind of the opposite of my mali. She was fairly low energy, which may have had to do with the Addison's disease that finally did her in. She was a great dog, absolutely loved kids and family, but fierce with everyone else, even my grown son. I never did know her exact breeding, a friend raised her, but I know he owned the bitch and she was WG and had titled parents, sire was Czech. He had sold her when a pup and the guy brought her back when she was a year old and asked him to find a lifetime home for her. He did.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

With my two WG x Czech dogs I couldn't find two more different temperaments and training issues.
The 8 1/2 yr old, Thunder, has been a clear headed, thinking dog frome day one. At 7-8 months old I knew he was the absolute best dog I've ever owned and that been more then a few. SchIII, SAR trained, CDX, HT, TT, CGC. Read the training book to him and he's got it. ;-)
3# yr old Trooper is a goofy clown and way to soft (to me) for my liking. Still a really neat, fun dog.He does have a dark side and there is little warning. BANG and it's there. More reactive then I like for "MY" purpose.


----------



## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

My bitch is mostly WG and Czech but has a sprinkle of EG in there. She's 2.5 now, and I'm pretty sure she hasn't fully matured yet. I think it's just now starting.


----------



## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Not necessarily a fault but less prey and more defense isn't uncommon. Sharper also.
> The problem is that the wall has been down for a while now and I have no idea if there are still and pure lines anymore.
> The old Czech lines were very similar from my understanding.
> The WG x Czech cross has become fairly common now. Both my GSDs are from different lines but both are WG x Czech cross.
> You will always find the "Not my EG dog" comment so I make a somewhat generalized statement.


I think that is actually an absolutely spot on generalized statement, Bob! 

I try to educate folks who are looking at the "EG dogs of today" as potential sport/working dogs and sadly, steer them away from them for the most part. They are merely a shell of what they once were. I think most make great pets, and that is what they are primarily being bred as these days.

I have an EG dog and he is the love of my life. Excellent ambassador for the breed as far as nerve and temperament (probably TOO social!), so he is not characteristic of the sharpness, but he definitely has little to no prey, primarily defensive dog, not easily motivated, little work ethic and a lot of quit in him if he just doesn't feel like doing something anymore. This of course, all mostly applies to sport OB and protection. He is a phenomenal tracking dog, has some of the best hunting you'll see, certified narcotics detection dog and is more recently proving to be quite the herding dog. 

I also agree that many people get "czech dogs" very confused now.. at my old Schutzhund club, my TD was a huge jerk that always trash talked anything that wasn't WG/Belgian bred, and we had a woman that came out a lot with her "old style" czech dogs and they were all super defensive, low prey, etc.. very much like EG dogs. These dogs are not at all the same type of dog being produced by kennels like Vikar, Moravia Artex, Yucero Bohemia and many of the other kennels in the CZ now that breed CZ/WG crosses. I have an 11 month old puppy I imported from the CZ, but he is as WG as it gets


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Britney Pelletier said:


> They are merely a shell of what they once were.


Once where when? When were these dogs good?

I agree with you and Bob on this...though I would be hard pressed not to use spooky fear biters as a descriptive.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> Once where when? When were these dogs good?
> 
> I agree with you and Bob on this...though I would be hard pressed not to use spooky fear biters as a descriptive.



My "sharper also" comment covers that. 
:roll: Again with the terms! :lol:
I think "sharp" can cover everything from sharp shy (fear biter) to a powerful dog that has a quick switch, aggressive edge to it.....if that makes sense?! 


Britney, my older GSD is out of a Vikar bitch. Again, he's the absolute best dog I've ever owned bar non.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

One important fact is, the Wall was only up for 40 years!!! Walter Ulrich started the building of the Wall in 1956 and it was down in 1889.


----------



## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> One important fact is, the Wall was only up for 40 years!!! Walter Ulrich started the building of the Wall in 1956 and it was down in 1889.


Wait! Who used the time machine to go backwards?!


----------



## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> Once where when? When were these dogs good?


lol, Chris.. not necessarily implying "good", just that what they "once were" was highly defensive, security type, border guarding dogs that would at least engage a man when they needed to. 

IMO, they were never sport dogs, but the few that have been able to obtain titles over the years have only disillusioned people even further as to what type of dog they actually are.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I had an older cousin that was stationed at the Berlin Wall during is worst period. His comment back then about the EG wall dogs was that they weren't sent to capture. :-k....
I've heard the same about the old Czech dogs. 
No idea how correct that is.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> I had an older cousin that was stationed at the Berlin Wall during is worst period. His comment back then about the EG wall dogs was that they weren't sent to capture. :-k....
> I've heard the same about the old Czech dogs.
> No idea how correct that is.


Well, the wall guards had authority to kill anyone trying to escape, makes sense to me...

there were alot of people killed that were not even trying to escape...

Ill hunt around to see if there are any confirmed deaths by dogs at the wall.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Any health or build issues with teeth, ears, hips or eyes? Close gene pool...


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> Wait! Who used the time machine to go backwards?!


Oops! 1956 AND it was Walter Ulbricht not Ulrich!!! 

I bow my head in shame


----------



## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Any health or build issues with teeth, ears, hips or eyes? Close gene pool...



Structurally, they are actually very correct.. I don't see any glaring health issues that are any more apparent than in the GSD breed in general.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> One important fact is, the Wall was only up for 40 years!!! Walter Ulrich started the building of the Wall in 1956 and it was down in 1889.



40 yrs is a long time in dog breeding. Just look at the American GSD since the 70s. One or two "big" names in breeding can take any breed to the scrap yard.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> 40 yrs is a long time in dog breeding. Just look at the American GSD since the 70s. One or two "big" names in breeding can take any breed to the scrap yard.


 Bob I agree with you!


----------



## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Quite many good working GSDs have more or less influence from DDR-dogs from the 70s and 80s, so they can´t be all that bad. What happened after the wall I don´t know, but a few of these DDR-dogs after the wall seems not so bad and have produced dogs that are more than pets, even if all these dogs are not 100% DDR.


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Erik Berg said:


> Quite many good working GSDs have more or less influence from DDR-dogs from the 70s and 80s, so they can´t be all that bad.



I think that the DDR dogs clicked with a lot of the West German and Belgian lines. Most of the GSDs that I like have a bit of DDR in them.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

anyone in the state of Mass know anything about :
Ryanhaus Kennels ?
their web site advertises their dogs as descendants of East German DDR bloodlines .... and are members of the Maine SchH club


----------



## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

rick smith said:


> anyone in the state of Mass know anything about :
> Ryanhaus Kennels ?
> their web site advertises their dogs as descendants of East German DDR bloodlines .... and are members of the Maine SchH club


I have met her a couple times (I'm from NH).. mostly nice temperament pet dogs.


----------

