# martingale collar help



## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

folks i have kind of an unusual request... 

atm i am working my SAR dog with a flat collar that has a plastic side-release buckle, as the group i train with require the dogs to be 'naked' while searching so as to avoid getting caught up in debris... 

however as i have such an exciteable dog and we often have a number of dogs to get through on the day i don't have the time to stand around all day and wait for him to calm down when he gets out of the car before i take him to the search area, and he has started to drag me on the flat collar... trying to correct him with just the flat collar really isn't working (i don't like doing it but it's preferable to being pulled on my face, i am not a big person so i don't have much weight behind me) and other group members have frowned upon it... 

so i am chasing a martingale collar with a chain action, so that i can disable the action by clipping the leash to the chain as well and not just the active ring, pretty much making it the same as a standard flat collar when i am ready to deploy him so he can pull all he wants then... i would prefer nylon but will take leather... don't mind if it is lined or unlined... 

but i need one with a nice strong and easy to release clip as well... i can find plenty of pictures of what i want via google, but they all seem to be on dog training sites and blogs that are comparing training equipment, not selling it... i don't care what the clip is made from (plastic or metal) so long as it is secure and not likely to break, but is able to be instantly released with one hand... the plastic SRB on my current collar is fantastic, but as my dog is getting unruly i would really love to put him on a martingale... 

i am willing to buy from anywhere in the world so long as they will post to Australia, and am willing to pay up to about $50 for what i need... 

if anyone can help out i would greatly appreciate it!!!


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

I think I have seen something like what you are describing. I will go and look through my catalogs ,,,(my fav "throne reading material lol). 

I cant say I have ever used that style of collar. But I teach the dogs that when in work mode (about to go get in the thick of it)... to get in close with me and proceed. My dog for a long time would just lose it when he saw barbed wire because he related it to lockups and the work he likes. Using a high value reward (his chicken) to teach him when I say "lets hit it" he gets in close (not really heeling but just in close). Then doing the same with decoys etc anything he found high value. It didnt take long for him to put being in close with me as being his key to open the door to the reward. I got tired of being dragged around and Im not small so I can imagine. Plus I dont really like to correct the dog in certain situations for public appearances sake. One of the guys I train with is the best I have seen at teaching the dog to stay in close with him with or without a line. I will ask him how he does it.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Jay
Not what you are asking, and sorry to go off on a tangent, but essentially I read this as wanting to get a different collar so you can deliver a more "effective" correction.
Your call, of course, but my bet is it will not solve the problem (hyper when leaving the vehicle) and maybe make it worse.

I would like to hear how you have tried to train this out rather than how you want to control it via a martingale.
- specifically, what have you done that hasn't worked ? That might give you ideas about trying a different approach
- then think about what you might have been doing (subconsciously) to get this behavior conditioned in the first place ?
- is the dog hyped up and bouncing off the walls when it is inside the vehicle b4 even you get to where you are going ? (my guess is it isn't)

- only after that analysis would I blame it on "drive" and look for a better way to control/correct it 

I'd be happy to list a few suggestions if you want to try a few different approaches

but if you are set on trying a collar, hope it works when you get one.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

Brian, thanks, i'd be interested to hear your input on that... 

Rick, the dog has done bitework in the past but in his head it's all been a huge game of tug, and he doesn't have it in him to engage an angry human for real, thus us moving onto SAR instead... a lot of the stuff he has done in the past has set him up for SAR work, B&H has translated over to bark alert and staying with his victim, etc... but he has always been taught he is allowed to pull on a flat collar, so yes, it's been a created situation... but he has certainly gotten worse the longer we have been training for SAR as he gets more excited about the work... 

i always just put a pinch collar on him when we were doing bitework and he knows he is not to drag me when he is on that but i am not allowed to use a pinch at SAR... was thinking the martingale would do the trick instead... yes i know i am aiming for a quick fix but as i said i don't often have the time to put in any extra training between the vehicle and a search because we are often limited on time... dogs are not meant to be out of the vehicle unless actively training (whether it be searching, working on distance control, or the agility equipment, etc), and it's not unusual for me to crawl out of the rubble pile after hiding for someone else's dog and fetch my dog and take him straight back for a search... 

so i believe the martingale with a clip in it would quickly fix most of our issues due to the similar function to the pinch collar and it means i only need one collar on the dog and don't have to stuff about trying to change collars to deploy the dog from a flat collar, i can just reel him in, spend a second or two disabling the action, and then we're away just as we are now...


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

also a bit off tangent, is that if you buckle the flat collar down so its snug to the neck the risk of hang-ups go down. That way it will slid through the brush and fences instead of leaving a gap to get caught up on things. 

** Now back to our regularily scheduled programming...."


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Very easy to make. Get ur self whatever material u want to use , hole puncher and a rivet tool. U can have what u want in less than an hour


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

Timothy, where would i get the chain action from? can't make one of those up myself... would probably also cost me more in tools that i will likely never use again than it would to buy a pre-made collar...

Sarah, thanks, but i am not permitted to leave anything on my dog while he is searching...


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jay, How about one of these. I made it in 1/2 hour and 3 bucks. Works great.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/Howard/25.jpg


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

thanks Howard but i really need something i can release my dog from with one hand while the collar is under tension... 

i was hoping someone would know where i could purchase a martingale such as described in my first post... as i said there are multiple pictures of them so they have to be coming from somewhere but i cannot find a retailer for them... 

i will continue to use my current flat collar with plastic SRB for now... the buckle is right next to the leash ring so i just reach down and squeeze it and my dog is off and away... one of the collars pictured would be easy enough to get off quickly while the collar is not under tension but when my dog is pulling and ready to search i don't see how i could get it off with any kind of ease let alone with one hand : (

edit: on this page is an example of the sort of collar that i want, in the circumstances that i keep finding them... being used as an example or comparison but not for sale... 
http://www.precision-dog-training.com/dog-training-collar.html (if the link is now allowed then please remove it...)


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Ok Jay, I get it. The cool thing about making your own is that you can change the clasp pictured, to a squeeze release clasp with no problem at all.

Secondly, making your own can be too much of a bother when it's easier to locate one for purchase. With all the different collar combos out there surely there's one fit for you. How about putting the pinch on backwards (prongs out) with a quick release clip?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

I do get what you are saying Jay

- the problems you described brought this episode to mind
- not a promotion of CM, but i think it's worth watching....if for no other reason it shows he works with trained working dogs who have real world jobs; not just out of control family pets owned by clueless owners 

- not a cook book solution to be copied/pasted, but i see some relevance :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-o8prTRnrQ


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

rick smith said:


> - not a cook book solution to be copied/pasted, but i see some relevance :
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-o8prTRnrQ


 Well, there ya go. We don't need no stinkin' collars  So simple but amazing.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

if i was allowed to use a pinch, i'd just use a pinch... if i brought one out of the car i'd probably get kicked out, and it's not like there is another group i can go train SAR with without moving states : (

as far as making stuff on my own goes, right now i have ZERO tools that would be useful in the manufacture of a dog collar - i have a few screwdrivers and a multi-plier... i have very little in the way of posessions compared to most people i know, as i've lived on my own for most of my adult life and the longest i've ever stayed in one place is 18mths... all my furniture collapses and everything i own i can carry by myself without needing a second person to help me get shit up and down stairs etc... heck the dogs have more stuff than i do in the way of crates, pens, etc... and all those fold down or are modular and i can carry each unit myself... as it is i'm annoyed that i've had to hire a huge-arse trailer the last time i shifted and i will definitely need to make two trips with one the next time i shift... 

i have very little desire to go buying tools that are very likely NOT going to be used again... heck i wouldn't even currently be able to apply the little crimps you have shown on your rope example, Howard... 

while i do appreciate the suggestions i posted asking if anyone knew where i could buy a collar that already exists in the format i want, only i can't seem to find an actual seller for it... i was hoping perhaps someone else had seen one around and could share where they found it with me...


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jay...a man without tools is blasphemy. 
Good luck on the search. Invention is bourne out of neccessity and any kind of Martingale made will likely have to be modified to fit your exact requirement for your specific situation. I've never seen one designed to release the entire collar from the dog by unclasping.


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## Brian Smith (May 26, 2013)

Just sent you a pm with a link for one. Hope thats what ur looking for.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

cheers Brian

Rick, re that Cesar ep, waving your hand and going Shhh! at my dog would result in him completely ignoring you and running straight around you... and damn i wish pens that height would keep my guys in, they'd all sail straight over those >_<

Howard, i always was more of a computer nerd than anything, heh... but hey someone's gotta do it... just wish it was easier to make a living from but for now i guess i am stuck with the dog work...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

If this is what you're looking for:










http://www.dogsupplies.com/products/Black-Adjustable-Chain-Quick-Release-Martingale-Dog-Collar.html?gclid=CjkKEQjwzv-cBRD_oY2PouKVvMIBEiQAKuGNCwlXf20BOa1vEJ-5mOmGF5AvvuLWhUZ5-4ylGBUPcT_w_wcB

You can also find them on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Chain-Martingale-Quick-Release-Medium/dp/B000X84000


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

If this is what you're looking for, you can find them on Amazon:











http://www.amazon.com/Chain-Martingale-Quick-Release-Medium/dp/B000X84000


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

How important is the chain action? The same torque effect can be achieved with a nylon strap in place of the chain. I found these on Aussie sites

http://waggle.com.au/ezydog-b2/checkmate-martingale-collar-p594

http://www.blackdog.net.au/index.php?route=product/category&path=61

The other option is that you can take a flat collar, cut it open, hand-sew on a couple of D-rings. then take a chain collar, cut a link so you can open it up, cut to the length you want. Then use a small locking carabiner to join the two ends back together (or just wire it together with some heavy guage wire like what you find in coat hangers). All you need is a strong straight needle, heavy thread (like carpet thread) and a pair of pliers to help push/pull the needle through the material (I made and sewed a pony harness one winter using just those items)
If you can braid rope or leather then you can make something like this

https://www.etsy.com/listing/125890341/kangaroo-leather-dog-collar-chain

If you are a bit clever or use a little aussie-ingenuty you could probably come up with something.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Hey Jay,
at least be thankful your SAR group doesn't understand how collars really work, or why different collars are used for different reasons. the only diff I see between a pinch and a Martingale is the amount of pinch you can apply //lol//
- if it would be sized by their wishes (w/ no pinch effect), all you would have is a loose flat collar 
- of course if there is too much chain slack, you get more pinch effect but the collar can slip off and that would be unsafe too 

but once you get one I doubt they won't make you "demo" how it works to ensure it's an acceptable humane SAR dog collar ... unlike those nasty abusive "choke" collars used for aggressive dogs


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> If this is what you're looking for, you can find them on Amazon:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Well, now I've seen one. Maybe I have seen one before but in my minds eye I discount any collar with a clasp like that as dangerous and untrustworthy. Not a clasp I would consider using on a high drive dog in the professional world, but that's just me.


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## Brian Smith (May 26, 2013)

How about something like this? It's a quick release prong and they ship internationally. 

http://www.dog-harness-store.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_11&products_id=5


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Brian Smith said:


> How about something like this? It's a quick release prong and they ship internationally.
> 
> http://www.dog-harness-store.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_11&products_id=5


 That's what I was thinking except his SAR group will have nothing to do with such medevial, torturous devices.](*,)


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> Jay, How about one of these. I made it in 1/2 hour and 3 bucks. Works great.
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/Howard/25.jpg


 Ah! that's what you call a Martingale??

Easy to make, as you say. The Briard wasn't impressed by it but the GSDs took them more or less seriously.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jay Quinn said:


> if i was allowed to use a pinch, i'd just use a pinch... if i brought one out of the car i'd probably get kicked out, and it's not like there is another group i can go train SAR with without moving states : (
> 
> as far as making stuff on my own goes, right now i have ZERO tools that would be useful in the manufacture of a dog collar - i have a few screwdrivers and a multi-plier... i have very little in the way of posessions compared to most people i know, as i've lived on my own for most of my adult life and the longest i've ever stayed in one place is 18mths... all my furniture collapses and everything i own i can carry by myself without needing a second person to help me get shit up and down stairs etc... heck the dogs have more stuff than i do in the way of crates, pens, etc... and all those fold down or are modular and i can carry each unit myself... as it is i'm annoyed that i've had to hire a huge-arse trailer the last time i shifted and i will definitely need to make two trips with one the next time i shift...
> 
> ...


Your can use the pinch maybe by covering it up . There are pinches hîdden in leather collars, or online covers for pinches. I used to use a "scrunchy", I think it's called that women tie their back with?


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Well, now I've seen one. Maybe I have seen one before but in my minds eye I discount any collar with a clasp like that as dangerous and untrustworthy. Not a clasp I would consider using on a high drive dog in the professional world, but that's just me.


me too Howard .. those plastic lobster type clasps will come apart like a 2 dollar watch ,,, right when you need it the most. But they do make a mil spec similiar to that in aluminum that is badass. But for the OP its a 50 buck clasp lol ,,,


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

did I add ,,, I have the scars to prove it? LOL


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Brian Anderson said:


> me too Howard .. those plastic lobster type clasps will come apart like a 2 dollar watch ,,, right when you need it the most. But they do make a mil spec similiar to that in aluminum that is badass. But for the OP its a 50 buck clasp lol ,,,


 I have aluminum mil-spec clasps on my flat collar and tracking harness. Believe it or not...I trust a buckle more but accept what I have. Wierd shit happens when you work with dogs and I've had the mil-spec harness unbuckle when my boy was wearing the harness while we did some ground fighting. Nothing is full proof. With a buckle the material (leather or nylon) has to completely fail for things to go bad.

Don't we all have the scars ?


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> I have aluminum mil-spec clasps on my flat collar and tracking harness. Believe it or not...I trust a buckle more but accept what I have. Wierd shit happens when you work with dogs and I've had the mil-spec harness unbuckle when my boy was wearing the harness while we did some ground fighting. Nothing is full proof. With a buckle the material (leather or nylon) has to completely fail for things to go bad.
> 
> Don't we all have the scars ?


A buddy of mine who works over in east tx was telling me he was tracking with his clasp flat collar and without any warning as they were walking it just popped open,,,, we both suspected that it had not been snapped good when he put it on.. all mine have old school roller buckles. The scars I get less of these days I dont take the chances I used to lol.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Brian Anderson said:


> A buddy of mine who works over in east tx was telling me he was tracking with his clasp flat collar and without any warning as they were walking it just popped open,,,, we both suspected that it had not been snapped good when he put it on.. all mine have old school roller buckles. The scars I get less of these days I dont take the chances I used to lol.


Right? Anything "Quick Release" is gonna release at the most inopportune time all by its lonesome....Buckle ghosts lol.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Well, now I've seen one. Maybe I have seen one before but in my minds eye I discount any collar with a clasp like that as dangerous and untrustworthy. Not a clasp I would consider using on a high drive dog in the professional world, but that's just me.


Nor would I, but nevertheless it does look to be the same collar he said he was looking for:


Jay Quinn said:


> edit: on this page is an example of the sort of collar that i want, in the circumstances that i keep finding them... being used as an example or comparison but not for sale...
> http://www.precision-dog-training.com/dog-training-collar.html (if the link is now allowed then please remove it...)


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Anything plastic is prone to failure, therefore untrustworthy. On the first failure most people swear off those clasps. Hopefully nothing bad happens when the buckle ghosts decide to visit.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Looks like this person will make them any way you want, the prices aren't bad, and ships to outside the US:

http://fragglerockdesigns.com/custom-collars

"Shipping anywhere in the US is $3, anywhere outside of the US is $5 for up to three items."

So you could order a nylon or cotton martingale with metal chain and a metal quick release or a metal buckle release



She's also got a FaceBook page: https://www.facebook.com/FraggleRockDesigns


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

thankyou all, seems your Google-Fu is stronger than mine... i will contact the custom collars place and if they can't help out i'll probably go wrestle with amazon..... 



i am not allowed to import pinch collars to Oz, customs would tear me a new one... i already own several stainless HS pinch collars purchased from the only aussie importer that i know of (they have a permit which no doubt would have cost several hundred dollars and required a lot of jumping through hoops)... hiding a pinch is also not an option because the collar must come off the dog and therefore the prongs would be clearly visible to all around me, and most of the people who train with the group know what they are... 

i am also aware that the plastic SRB's are not the most durable piece of kit but they seem to be the most suited to the application i currently need them for... the dog is a SAR dog not a protection dog and it is pretty much solely to get him from the car to the search area (usually a distance of less than 100yds) without me getting dragged off my feet... i need to be able to release him quickly to search while he is straining on the leash without dragging a collar over his head and the collar that i currently have serves that function perfectly, but offers no ability to correct while we are walking... 

and yes i really do need a chain action because you can't disable a cloth one with the leash clip... i already have several martingale collars that i use from time to time, the slip-over-the-head and then adjust sort are a total PITA and not an option, and the ones i already have with a traditional buckle i can not get off in a hurry at all... it is a matter of a second or two to clip the leash around the bottom part of the chain (as well as the clip remaining through the ring) to disable the action, and then the collar functions as a flat collar would, and i can release my dog from it... or could if it had the right sort of clip... 

the collar is for a very specific purpose and would not be used for everyday wear or agitation work for my other dogs... i already have enough solid hardware for that purpose...


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

As Timothy already said, make one yourself! They really are not that hard to make and instead of using a chain you use nylon or leather. We make tons of them over here in maybe 30 minutes on a slow day.

Instead of looking for a martingale, which i had never heard of :lol: try looking for a halfcheck collar on google. Plenty of them out there for sale 

check this out --->http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=half+check&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xhalf+check+dog+collar&_nkw=half+check+dog+collar&_sacat=0


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

call em by whatever name you use, but if the two ends of the flat part (or rope part, if u use rope) do NOT match up when u pull, they are chokers, slips or pinches .. names aren't that important to me 

and you can put as much slack chain in them as you want, depending on how much choke effect you desire 
- seems like i already posted this 

is this NOT what a martingale, semi-choker, or halfcheck collar is ???

or maybe again, i am missing something, since i don't use them. i don't prefer a loose collar. i prefer a loose lead.

if i got a puller, i use a 48inch climbing sling as a one piece slip collar/lead ... fast, strong, comfortable for me and the dog and does the job quite well


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

unless the dog happens to like eating leads //lol//


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

rick smith said:


> call em by whatever name you use, but if the two ends of the flat part (or rope part, if u use rope) do NOT match up when u pull, they are chokers, slips or pinches .. names aren't that important to me
> 
> and you can put as much slack chain in them as you want, depending on how much choke effect you desire
> - seems like i already posted this
> ...


Rick... there is a reason they are called halfchecks, martingales or whatever fancy name they put to it. Because they are not a choke or pinch chain or collar. If I drive a car like an idiot and mow down people left or right as I see them in my path it doesn't make it a people mower, its still a car... I just don't use it for the specific car driving purposes as one would expect. 

There are specific reasons to use a choke chain or collar or pinch as there are specific reasons for using a Halfcheck. Choke or pinch is correction as to where halfcheck is more usefull for quick release over head one handed or just walking a dog.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Alice
true, i do not know all the reasons people use various types of collars

i did assume the type we are talking about was used mostly for corrections; as a go between from full slip to the halfcheck style. 
- most of the ones shown on web sites look more like they are pet oriented vice working dog oriented, and not as a quick release tool

do you use them for quickly releasing a dog ? by slacking and slipping it fwd over the dog's head? in what situations ?
- i could see that use too, but then, when you retrieve the dog, there is no collar to grab. wouldn't releasing the lead but still have a collar to collect the dog be more useful in most applications ?

but either way, i'm gonna make one and try it out. will post pics of my "homemade version"


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jay Quinn said:


> thankyou all, seems your Google-Fu is stronger than mine... i will contact the custom collars place and if they can't help out i'll probably go wrestle with amazon....


Your Welcome! Glad I could help you find EXACTLY what you were looking for.  :lol:


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

I have never heard of them referred to as a half check collar before... Googling that term came up with a couple more custom options and a few more Amazon ones... I have always tried to steer clear of places like eBay and it's kin (of which I count Amazon)... But at least now I have a few more options and I may even make a few purchases and then just stick with the collar I like most and keep the rest in reserve - most are cheap enough... Thank you all again for the help and suggestions!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jay Quinn said:


> I have never heard of them referred to as a half check collar before... Googling that term came up with a couple more custom options and a few more Amazon ones... I have always tried to steer clear of places like eBay and it's kin (of which I count Amazon)... But at least now I have a few more options and I may even make a few purchases and then just stick with the collar I like most and keep the rest in reserve - most are cheap enough... Thank you all again for the help and suggestions!


If you end up buying a few different collars, keep us posted on what you find out!


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

I'll try to remember to keep you all updated : )


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

This is what I always vue as a Martingale lead. When I was active in the breed ring it's pretty much all you saw. 
This one is obviously heavy duty compared to what I use with my terriers
*http://www.amazon.com/Martingale-Show-Lead-Large-Black/dp/B0046QHX6I*


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