# Samson's first prey drive test



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I waited until five months old to see what kind of prey drive this boy has. Five months, who even does that?

http://youtu.be/4iKB8I-lNeY

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1379623


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## manny rose (Jun 3, 2010)

Better wait another
5 months..lol


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I see more possessiveness the prey drive.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

good looking dog.
thanks for sharing the video, I am sure he will work out fine for you, and he should show much better with a little more exposure...


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I see more possessiveness the prey drive.


I want to agree, and that's more from his mother. I didn't expect a lot, I've never even tossed a ball for him before. It was kind of difficult to grip that ole punching bag, with a little tougher slippery surface being half inflated. There's definite room to enhance the drive, once he understands the games we engage in.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> I want to agree, and that's more from his mother. I didn't expect a lot, I've never even tossed a ball for him before. It was kind of difficult to grip that ole punching bag, with a little tougher slippery surface being half inflated. There's definite room to enhance the drive, once he understands the games we engage in.


Daryl I did something very similar with my dog, played rag and small tug a few times before teething, maybe like 5 times if that, and then did nothing til about 8 months. 

a month later the puppy won Driviest Puppy contest at a PP/Irondog event..
First place out of about 45-50 puppies...

first time I tossed a ball, pup was about 8 months, ran out half-assed to it and sniffed it, and came back,, lol


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm no expert, but mine was like Joby's, at five months she was a little slow and shy, at 6-7 months, she was a full on maniac Mali. 
I think her drives picked up even more at about ten months, right after her first heat.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

He looks like a GSD with good focused object drive. They really aren't supposed to be spun up on prey drive.

T


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I'd be comfortable with higher drive, but I think I'll be more cautious about how possessive he gets. I don't want to be fighting with him over relinquishing the object.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> I'd be comfortable with higher drive, but I think I'll be more cautious about how possessive he gets. I don't want to be fighting with him over relinquishing the object.


Why not just teach him to out. Of course he didn't look that possessive to me. He wants it and he wants to keep it. Do you have any video of the sire and dam in terms of drive? Acutally, my corgi is a tad possessive. Shade had a good method that I think can address that. I'm going to play with it and see.

T


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> He looks like a GSD with good focused object drive. They really aren't supposed to be spun up on prey drive.
> 
> T


???Who says GSD are not suppose to be spun up on prey drive?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Ben Thompson said:


> ???Who says GSD are not suppose to be spun up on prey drive?


Probably anyone who has used them on stock and studied them historically. And then there are other aspects to the dog. I think its something that's really hard to quantify. I can remember JO questioning Esko's drive and he had calm focused engagement. I don't look at a GSD with a Mal as the comparative.

T


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I'm not saying he's overly possessive at this point, only that he could easily become made to be. So, I just need to watch how I interact with him, because I have a habit of doing things to encourage possessiveness, because of past dogs I've raised who typically needed that.

A lot of things can be "overdone" in the training process on dogs who don't particularly need such treatment, and "too much" sometimes results in negative effects. A wound up dog is fine with me, if it can control itself adequately. The training is all about enhancing the precision of that control while being in a more intense state of drive.

Sam has just the right amount of prey drive and possessiveness right now as it is, I probably should wait another five months before I really screw him up  Really, I should be doing a lot more obedience focused exercizes with him at this point anyway. He's very willful toward me, and the food drive is fantastic, so I don't want him becoming OCD over toys and tugs right now.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Daryl,

Are you a graduate of the Don "The Seed" Turnipseed School of prey building/testing? The damn line is too long. You're practically hitting yourself in the head with the bag. Yet a short buggy whip and get a little action/movement in the prey object.
I like my Fenzi Frenzy for building and testing prey drive.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: There's definite room to enhance the drive, once he understands the games we engage in."

i wouldn't worry too much about building drive right now either, but i also see mostly possessiveness in that clip. 
(the music overrode what you were saying so can't tell if there was any marking that way)

you may have considered this a test, but i think the pup saw it as a game, and if it is repeated a lot it will be a game 

if that was the case, the dog's point of view might have been :
i start out with my ball in front of me
owner approaches and makes it move away from me
no problem; i can get it back
no matter how many times it's taken away
him stroking me isn't gonna work either
i'll still get it and move it away from him 
until he finally leaves me with it

not trying to sound critical, and just my .02, but that was how i think the dog saw the "rules" in that session.
no aggressiveness at this point which is good, but not much structure that would decrease the possessiveness either

if you are going to build up drive, reward and condition for the drive rather then play take away with an object he wants and starts out with.

imo, teaching the out early on can also be a great drive builder because it can be used to restart a structured bite game
never could understand why it usually gets trained in the opposite direction, but then again possessiveness is often a higher priority and lots of people like to see it built up

to each his own .... sure it will all come together no matter how you do it
nice pup !


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

fwiw, if i'm "testing" prey drive i don't let the dog get the prey item ... 
i want to see how much drive it has to TRY and get it and how long it will stay in drive or how quickly it will give up .... in a short test session

i would reward with a different object or food, if at all, and only do that if the dog gave up quick ... don't want it to be a downer session for the dog


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Yeah, it was awkward, my first time trying this setup. I have a few buggy whips I'm much more adept with, for those speedy and intense girls. I also wanted something that was a little more hefty and grip challenging, because I didn't expect a lot of speed out of Sam. He's so big and the bigger guys aren't very often quick on their feet. There were a few lunges his speed was surprising to me, so out went any precise handling for the moment. Anyway, if the presentation was polished up, I wouldn't be getting such helpful insight ;-)


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

rick smith said:


> fwiw, if i'm "testing" prey drive i don't let the dog get the prey item ...
> i want to see how much drive it has to TRY and get it and how long it will stay in drive or how quickly it will give up .... in a short test session
> 
> i would reward with a different object or food, if at all, and only do that if the dog gave up quick ... don't want it to be a downer session for the dog


That's interesting.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

for sure, he's a big boy and that will reflect in how he moves .... not gonna be a ballerina going after something, so i would pay close attention to other body language that shows his interest in moving objects...just a gut feeling of course, but i think it'll come for sure 

might also stimulate it when he's out walking and reward him (tug/food,etc) big time whenever he lights up on a bug or lizard and goes after it  
...just be careful you don't train him to be a critter chaser //lol//


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

"testing" can be very subjective
i'm working with a gsd that was evaluated by a "master SchH trainer" as having all defense and zero prey drive, and therefore nothing to "balance out" :-(
- i saw the video of the "test" ... dog was put on a short tie out at a fence corner and helper approached with whip in one hand and flirt pole in the other... dog wanted NO part of the FP lure and obviously was already in defense when approached that way

when i tested the dog it had great prey drive.....
in a closed yard, untethered and free to move wherever it wanted to
chased the FP lure for a full ten min trying like hell to get it
...no more testing needed imo 

different strokes i guess 
like one man's trash is another's treasure ??


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> "testing" can be very subjective
> i'm working with a gsd that was evaluated by a "master SchH trainer" as having all defense and zero prey drive, and therefore nothing to "balance out" :-(
> - i saw the video of the "test" ... dog was put on a short tie out at a fence corner and helper approached with whip in one hand and flirt pole in the other... dog wanted NO part of the FP lure and obviously was already in defense when approached that way
> 
> ...




10 minutes of chasing, untethered and never catching it, you must be a pole master...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

actually i'm pretty slow 

but my FP is an old golf club driver shaft minus the head with an eye bolt epoxied in and a 6-7 ft short lead to a fluffy light lure ... and the gsd is no BC //llol//


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

the driver turned FP is a decapitated "Killer Bee" 
old time golfers might remember it ... i actually got one and used it 4-5 times //rotflmao//


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