# Table training starts at 7 months



## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Here is a short video clip, we started Hano with Table training, he was 7 months the 14th of July...he is such an awesome pup! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZSFn0c_9Hw


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

can you explain to me table training. what is the purpose, what is trying to be accomplished, when you start, when you stop etc.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

sam wilks said:


> can you explain to me table training. what is the purpose, what is trying to be accomplished, when you start, when you stop etc.


I like teh table if the helper knows what there doing and there's a lesson or problem to be resolved not sure what to make of this what are you doing.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

maybe you can tell me more about it mike.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

sam wilks said:


> maybe you can tell me more about it mike.


I dont know what there doing


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Why would you be coming at a 7 month old dog with a full on profile, no prey movements etc and then feeding him the sleeve?

At 7 months old shouldn't you be doing all the foundation work?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Colbert said:


> Why would you be coming at a 7 month old dog with a full on profile, no prey movements etc and then feeding him the sleeve?
> 
> At 7 months old shouldn't you be doing all the foundation work?


not sure what is being done...or why...but people train how they train...I'd wait to see this dog at 3 yrs old, before I knock the training...Mo is not a newbie to dog training...and has trained some real nice dogs...


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Fair enough


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Colbert said:


> Why would you be coming at a 7 month old dog with a full on profile, no prey movements etc and then feeding him the sleeve?
> 
> At 7 months old shouldn't you be doing all the foundation work?


forgot to add. I didn't see a feeding of the sleeve, I saw a presentation of the sleeve, the sleeve that was not a big part of the equation until it was popped up....there is a huge difference in the two things, I think..

also, maybe this IS foundation work for this trainer and this dog...that is also very possible...


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## Mike Jones (Jan 22, 2009)

I cannot speak for this trainer or why thery used the table because the table is used for so many different things (i.e. forced retrieves, defense work, teach a dog to bark, build frustration).

One reason that many trainers use the table with a young dog or weaker nerve dog is to build confidence. If the dog is at the same level as the aggressor they feel more empowered and they will attack the sleeve with more vigor and confidence then when the aggressor is towering over them while they are on the ground. However, like I said I cannot speak for the reason it was used with the pup.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

When I say feeding the dog the sleeve I guess what I mean is that at 7 months old I'd rather be teaching the dog to dynamically move up and forward for the bite rather than presenting it like that.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ben, just my somewhat uneducated thoughts but if a dog is chained to a fence, post or table it hasn't got much room for dynamic forward movement. The helper goes to the dog. Usually in an arc but as others have said, we don't know exactly what's being done here.
I saw Mo's dogs at Jerry's "Gathering" this spring and I had no doubt whatever they were doing was working. :wink:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Danny is a good trainer so I am sure he has a reason for doing this. The puppy does not look like he is hurt from anything they are doing with him. He looks calm and confident and his grip looks pretty good for a young puppy I think.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Colbert said:


> When I say feeding the dog the sleeve I guess what I mean is that at 7 months old I'd rather be teaching the dog to dynamically move up and forward for the bite rather than presenting it like that.


how many dogs have you been teaching these techniques on and what do they work like?


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Hi all, been working, but will get back with an explanation of what we are doing, and show some of the other foundation work we have been doing with Hano- also the sleeve is not being fed, but is being presented when we get the reaction from the pup in this case, that we are looking for.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> how many dogs have you been teaching these techniques on and what do they work like?


Not sure which technique you mean.

If you are talking about the way Mo is training then none. That's why I'm interested in seeing exactly what he was looking for and what the purpose of training like he does is.

I'm not trash talking the guy. Just saying that it doesn't jive with what little I know.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Colbert said:


> Not sure which technique you mean.


I just meant any techniques...that YOU use. how many dogs have you trained into adulthood for this type of work?


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

sorry been busy- hope I can explain it, without writing a book here and address everyone's concerns and questions....but as far as Hano goes,*he IS a work in progress*...he is young, is doing awesome- obviously comes from a great breeding....he has awesome drives, (ball, retrieve,hunt etc) will pick up metal, soda cans, whether full and cold or emptied,he will go under water to get his object, we have started him on finding the decoy ( or his retrieve item)in the field, woods, and doing blind work...keeping it fun..... he has been introduced to agility, on our own field and taking him to the local police K9 training field etc,-for a new locations and obstacles... * as far as Table training*......this is the next step for him.... *this is NOT* the first step.... he was started with a puppy tug, then on to a puppy sleeve, onto a hard sleeve, and recently intro to the suit-I have training videos of our field suit work, just have to upload it from my phone...:-k. 
He is ready to move onto ALL suit work,and on the field, is targeting awesome in the pocket(we don't present the sleeve on the suit jacket).... but he is still small....his body needs to catch up...his attitude and his mind...doing great..._.so now we use the table_- to improve focus,calm him, work on his OUT, and keeping all of this clear to the dog...this hard to put into words - what we are asking of the dog, it is easier to demonstrate..anyway....before he gets a bite-he will learn he must be calm,(can do a bark and hold, or just down and quiet....depends on the direction we want to take him) but he must focus on the man, and at that point the movement of the man comes, dog can bite,...initially we use the sleeve, once the lesson is understood by the dog, the suit jacket is used.....the equipment is only meant to be presented at a last moment it is only-protection for the decoy, not "fed" to the dog...with this- the lesson is.. in the dogs mind, he IS biting the man...this will keep him from getting equipment happy.....the table makes it easy to teach an OUT ..... timing is most important..and reading your dog....at this age, not adding to much stress....knowing when to quit etc. (being experienced in this type of training)

the table can be used for all ages of dogs, and we have used it a lot for handler aggressive dogs, to calmly and safely get the dog under control-

but all depends on the dog and the dog's qualitiies.....the abilities of the trainer and decoys....we have been fortunate to work with, train and learn a lot over the years from a lot of quality people...we have been lucky to have a lot of nice dogs over the years.( Belgian Malinois and German Shepherds)!
and right now again we are lucky to have it...great dogs, an awesome puppy in the works right now, and lucky to be able to work with Danny and Greg....the amount of knowledge in our training group is awesome and we all work together great!!
looking forward to another "gathering" that was a fun time, even in the rain...maybe next one, I will be able to show Hano, along with my other boys.....


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

Your puppy looks good Mo, trust in Danny he is a Great trainer. There are many things I have witnessed Danny do that I did not fully understand yet his end product is always the real deal. It is easy for people to critique small video segments, watch the man work for awhile and you will appreciate his skill level for sure.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

thanks Wayne....miss you here, I am starting a petition to have the unit you are working with relocated to North Central Florida...Mega,Palin and Hano have all been started on the table-all coming along great! Jamie's pups are looking really good too- 
as I said in my previous post- _ "we have been fortunate to work with, train and learn a lot over the years from a lot of quality people"..._ you are definately one of those quality people!!


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

What Mo said. Great post Mo.

I'm ready for"The Second Gathering." Already starting to plan. Maybe late fall timeline.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> Why would you be coming at a 7 month old dog with a full on profile, no prey movements etc and then feeding him the sleeve?
> 
> At 7 months old shouldn't you be doing all the foundation work?


stick up means bite.... that's what I see.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: can you explain to me table training. what is the purpose, what is trying to be accomplished, when you start, when you stop etc.

Not a slam, but I am thinking that there will be control issues, and another dog that goes to level 1, and is unable to continue after he is two, due to these issues. 

Time will tell if I am right.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Mo, what I saw I liked! Tlhat first off.

I read your post but would still like to understand the difference between the dog held by the handler at that age and the table work.

My dog at nine months was too strong for me to hold in a standing position at his first bite work. So, after testing his grips on the flexible steel line, which were good, we changed this into my having him sitting by my side and as soon as he focused on me I let him go to the handler. This way, the aggression that could have occurred due to my holding him back was eliminated anyway.

He still has good grips and he still looks up at me for my ok to go to decoy.

Interested.

Gill


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

_Quote: can you explain to me table training. what is the purpose, what is trying to be accomplished, when you start, when you stop etc.

Not a slam, but I am thinking that there will be control issues, and another dog that goes to level 1, and is unable to continue after he is two, due to these issues. _ _

Time will tell if I am right._ 

Jeff, you are right... time will tell...also in your post, I am sure you are referring to Tango- who would not OUT in Level One of French ring....which caused him to have a disastrous score...but Tango was NOT table trained..... the table doesn't cause "control issues".....actually just the opposite- but we all have our training techniques that work or don't work for each of us....this works for us and our dogs.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Tango needed table training then. : )


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

_"He still has good grips and he still looks up at me for my ok to go to decoy."
_
Gillian, I don't want the dog focusing on me or looking at me for an ok to go to the decoy- I want the dog focusing on the decoy, as the dog has already been placed in the position to "watch" and react when the threat comes.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Jeff you are 100% right...Tango needed some table training before attempting his Ring one :!:


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