# Ringsport Wars in America



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Hey pick your ring group you think will win the War in America


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

Let's hope they both become winners. That is in the near future things calm down and a new era of cooperation will prevail. If the war goes on we will all be losers. 

Wars are demoded and a barbarian way of settling differences. They are sometimes necessary but rarely productive. If people put egos aside the wounds will heal.

Vive le Ring Français!


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Neither. Only the Germans were smart enough to figure out how to control both USCA and GSDCA-WDA so that they can determine what the Americans want and how much it will cost. The French and you could add the French Community of Belgium have proven quite a bit less adept in exploiting NARA, whereas ARF is a complete imposter that won't even admit to challenging NARA which is hardly a big bad wolf. The Dutch and Flemish on the other hand, seem to be content exporting only their dogs and don't seem to care how they might profit from what the Americans do with them afterward.

Did I get it right? I'm new and just learning.


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm relatively new to the sport but from what I've seen so far they're both been guilty of questionable practices. There's no winner and the sport suffers.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

sometimes there is just too much ego to fit in one box
so in america you just start your own
maybe we will end up with 3 or 4 groups


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

#3

United States Mondio Ring Association
more challenging, less melodrama and you don't have to deal with the French


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You know, it is the bullshit that I am pointing out. The USA is way too large for one organization, so there really should be three.

The problem is that the sports are being ran by control freaks a lot of the time. They are the ones that want to be in charge, the rest of us, including me, just want to trial.

But NOooooooooooooooooooooooo, they have to do all this retarded shit, and cannot just do the sport.

It is not just the ringsports, look at all the isolationism that is happening in Sch. I do not want to discuss this shit at all, but it just keeps going on and on and on and on.

The nara ARF thing there are no shiny virgins on either side, but it is the crybaby shit and the cheating that irritates the shit out of me.

If I hear of ARF doing the same shit, I guarentee you that I am going to be cracking on them as well. For nara, it is just status quo. I cheat for you, you cheat for me, see you at the championships.

Politics are hard, the focus should be on doing the right thing, however, how often does that happen ? Maybe there should be stenographers at the meetings. Love to see the transcripts.


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

hey cant just one of them move to swden so we can have atleast one org


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> #3
> 
> United States Mondio Ring Association
> more challenging, less melodrama and you don't have to deal with the French


Thomas

You are correct in a mannner of speaking.

Every time Nara Fks up it seems Mondio becomes just that much stronger.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bart Karmich said:


> Neither. Only the Germans were smart enough to figure out how to control both USCA and GSDCA-WDA so that they can determine what the Americans want and how much it will cost. The French and you could add the French Community of Belgium have proven quite a bit less adept in exploiting NARA, whereas ARF is a complete imposter that won't even admit to challenging NARA which is hardly a big bad wolf. The Dutch and Flemish on the other hand, seem to be content exporting only their dogs and don't seem to care how they might profit from what the Americans do with them afterward.
> 
> Did I get it right? I'm new and just learning.


I am new to the SCH world, it does appear there is a little tiff going on right now with USA and WDA...what is that all about...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So how many are voting ? LOL Every other poll, people vote. What happened ? Are you really afraid of Kadi ? LOL


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what determines a win?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> what determines a win?


When someone takes a American bred dog trains it from a pup and can compete with the best in the world on the same field. 

So none of the pussy maggots that think that buying a pretrained dog and ruining it's training and pretending they know something need apply.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> When someone takes a American bred dog trains it from a pup and can compete with the best in the world on the same field.
> 
> So none of the pussy maggots that think that buying a pretrained dog and ruining it's training and pretending they know something need apply.


LMAO, you are truly amazing. FR 1 with one dog in your home wow and putting all effort in. Every Sch 1 every Psa1 every mondio1 every ASR1, every dog trained to a 1 makes their handler a professional. Oh now your gonna take the pup you bred and do some more WOW you are my hero. We should now all listen to your breeding and training advise, oh and can't forget about your advise of being a sheep to NARA!


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

I put zero credibility on any title. In fact I worked a dog a few years ago who was at the top of NARA ring 3. The dog spooked on the face attack when I raised the stick in a SCH type manor. I would not have bought that dog for 10 dollars. Just goes to shows. I'm not even going to explain the SCH dogs and handler that I've seen with titles. I don't think I've seen video of your dog but I'd love to see it.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The USA is way too large for one organization, so there really should be three.


So the 150-200 maybe people that do Ring need 3 organizations? Interesting how in France they have 1,000s of people in the sport .. but there is only one organization. Why is that?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> LMAO, you are truly amazing. FR 1 with one dog in your home wow and putting all effort in. Every Sch 1 every Psa1 every mondio1 every ASR1, every dog trained to a 1 makes their handler a professional. Oh now your gonna take the pup you bred and do some more WOW you are my hero. We should now all listen to your breeding and training advise, oh and can't forget about your advise of being a sheep to NARA!


Thanks Tim you are to kind.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

so jerry who wins? What is the definition of winning before I vote...


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Isn't the ARF championships this weekend being held on a club field? Why did it get moved from a neutral site?
One of the decoys for this same trial just got certified and has never decoyed a FR trail much less a championship? How does that happen? Why didn't ARF select a decoy who has at least worked a trial instead?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Judge; Dominique Piton (France)
Decoys; 
Lorent Schlernitzauer (France)
Eduardo Loyola (Puerto Rico USA)
Wade Morrell (Ohio USA)

So who didn't show up ?

Don't know about the field.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Here is a boxer doing a FR1. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6RAIbBiejE&feature=sub

Figured people might need a break from all the drama, although I know good and damn well drink it like water in a desert.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Here is a boxer doing a FR1.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6RAIbBiejE&feature=sub
> 
> Figured people might need a break from all the drama, although I know good and damn well drink it like water in a desert.


Did you pick the video for it outstanding music. 

Why do people put stupid music on their videos? Silence is ok! - The music is stuck in m head ](*,)


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Side Note Observation

With the advent of ARF.

French Ringsport in North America has in fact reached it highest point in the odd evolution of the sport here.

ARF has attracted a decent number of Clubs when coupled with Naras Clubs. 

These numbers when crunched quick show GROWTH in a short period for French Ringsport in America.

Kudos to the ARF.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Can anyone hear a Nara , " But, BBBBBB But"


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Judge; Dominique Piton (France)
> Decoys;
> Lorent Schlernitzauer (France)
> Eduardo Loyola (Puerto Rico USA)
> ...


 There are some very good and qualified decoys in ARF who have worked trials but didn't Wade just get certified as a FR decoy yet he got selected for the championships?

Nothing against the man as I don't know him from Adam and I'm sure he's a nice guy. My question is why did he get selected to decoy a champonship when he hasn't even worked a trial for the organization?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Wade has done other sports at a higher level, AND he was the alternate. Gotta start somewhere right ?


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

The senior decoy for this weekend's trial was Lorent Schlernitzauer one of the top decoys in the world. I guess some of us are so fascinated by the choice of alternate that they missed this fact and the fact that the judge of the ARF trial, Dominic Pitton ( acknowledged to be one of the foremost ringsport judges/trainers/handlers in the world) will be judging the NARA nationals as well.

The trial was small, but take it from someone who has competed in many large national events: the number of competitors is completely unrelated to the quality of the competition. Actually, my evil, selfish side wants to thank all those not in attendance for giving me a lot of invaluable one on one time to learn from Dominic Pitton and Lorent Schlernitzauer. You guys don't know what you missed but I certainly do! :twisted:

The comment about the Pennswoods "club field" is ludicrous. First, we should all be so lucky to compete on a superb field like this one. Second, and far more important: if a dog can't do it's best work on an unfamiliar field then PLEASE don't call it a working dog. Last, a team doing it's best work will not be at any particular disadvantage against a team that is familiar with the field. 

Having had the wonderful opportunity to do Ring 2 dog in white with my young dog this weekend, I can tell you that this ARF final had absolutely nothing to do with dog politics and everything to do with serious competition and the camaraderie that is available to people for who gladly promote the work and the working dog at great personal sacrifice and expense.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> The trial was small, but take it from someone who has competed in many large national events: the number of competitors is completely unrelated to the quality of the competition. Actually, my evil, selfish side wants to thank all those not in attendance for giving me a lot of invaluable one on one time to learn from Dominic Pitton and Lorent Schlernitzauer. You guys don't know what you missed but I certainly do! :twisted:


I hear you! I would've loved to be in a little seminar with those guys. Soak it all up it is a wonderful feeling learning from guys like that for sure.



Margaret Wheeler said:


> Having had the wonderful opportunity to do Ring 2 dog in white with my young dog this weekend, I can tell you that this ARF final had absolutely nothing to do with dog politics and everything to do with serious competition and the camaraderie that is available to people for who gladly promote the work and the working dog at great personal sacrifice and expense.


We did the Ring 2 DIW in CT we had a great time doing that I can't wait to trail in a few weeks. Seeing the score written in the book and giving your dog a scratch for a job well done makes all that sacrifice and expense worth it.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> I hear you! I would've loved to be in a little seminar with those guys. Soak it all up it is a wonderful feeling learning from guys like that for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> We did the Ring 2 DIW in CT we had a great time doing that I can't wait to trail in a few weeks. Seeing the score written in the book and giving your dog a scratch for a job well done makes all that sacrifice and expense worth it.


 

I have so so so much to learn! My dog (check him out here) carried me through this weekend, but sooner or later I'm going to have to do my share! 

Good luck in your upcoming competition Geoff! I probably won't be showing my face on a trial field as a competitor until next spring at the earliest, but my experiences this weekend gave me a big push in the right direction! 

Bon chance, mon ami!


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

What breed is the big brindle mastiff dog in the photo album? Fila?


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Debbie Skinner said:


> What breed is the big brindle mastiff dog in the photo album? Fila?


Boer Bol? sp?*

edit: Boerboel


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Boer Bol? sp?*
> 
> edit: Boerboel


Is it one of Tashi's by any chance? Just wondering, I haven't heard of many involved with both Boerboel AND any sort or Ringsport.

-Cheers


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

David Ruby said:


> Is it one of Tashi's by any chance? Just wondering, I haven't heard of many involved with both Boerboel AND any sort or Ringsport.
> 
> -Cheers


 
Aye! Her dogs were a big hit with Dominique too; he loves Boerboels!


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Aye! Her dogs were a big hit with Dominique too; he loves Boerboels!


Thanks. I've been around a few..boarding and what not and they were the fawn colored ones.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> There are some very good and qualified decoys in ARF who have worked trials but didn't Wade just get certified as a FR decoy yet he got selected for the championships?
> 
> Nothing against the man as I don't know him from Adam and I'm sure he's a nice guy. My question is why did he get selected to decoy a champonship when he hasn't even worked a trial for the organization?


WHAT PART OF "REPLACEMENT DECOY DONT YOU GET"?
Wade "I believe" has done a SCH National and PSA,and passed his FR decoy certification, so what's the problem with him being a replacement if something happened, please tell??????


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> I have so so so much to learn! My dog (check him out here) carried me through this weekend, but sooner or later I'm going to have to do my share!


I see a few people there I know Raul and Scott Beebe which series of pictures is your dog? It's all about teamwork. Handler, training decoy and dog. Without the people I work with I would just have an obedient dog. I thank my lucky stars I work with the people I do.



Margaret Wheeler said:


> Good luck in your upcoming competition Geoff! I probably won't be showing my face on a trial field as a competitor until next spring at the earliest, but my experiences this weekend gave me a big push in the right direction!
> 
> Bon chance, mon ami!


Merci we hope to do well and pass we have a lot of work to do still and we are running out of time to do it. But that is the fun part push the handler push the dog we will see how the stars are aligned that day. If we pass, the whole team passes that's the beauty of it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Tim, it is called re-direction. They talk about Wade, so they can deflect anyone talking about the two decoys that actually worked the trial. So far, they have had very very high level decoys doing their trials. We will see who shows up for their trial. 

Last year I think it was a crippled midget, and some really slow skinny kid.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Geoff, my dog starts at the end of row 7 and goes for like 4 rows. He's the one with the overweight middle aged lady hanging around him.


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Timothy Stacy said:


> WHAT PART OF "REPLACEMENT DECOY DONT YOU GET"?
> Wade "I believe" has done a SCH National and PSA,and passed his FR decoy certification, so what's the problem with him being a replacement if something happened, please tell??????


Tim, I know what a replacement is.. Thanks. He's done nationals in OTHER VENUES NOT FR! It wasn't a PSA or a SchuH championship, it was FR. He hasn't even decoyed a FR trial. Alternate or not, doesn't matter. I don't care if it's Wade. I don't know him from so it's nothing personal. It could be anyone for that matter. The fact is he just got certified a short while ago and got picked to decoy a championship. I don't agree with that. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. As a member of ARF I have every right to ask these questions as does anyone else for that matter and if you don't like it, too bad. 

Congrats to everyone who put the time in and competed.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> Tim, I know what a replacement is.. Thanks. He's done nationals in OTHER VENUES NOT FR! It wasn't a PSA or a SchuH championship, it was FR. He hasn't even decoyed a FR trial. Alternate or not, doesn't matter. I don't care if it's Wade. I don't know him from so it's nothing personal. It could be anyone for that matter. The fact is he just got certified a short while ago and got picked to decoy a championship. I don't agree with that. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. As a member of ARF I have every right to ask these questions as does anyone else for that matter and if you don't like it, too bad.
> 
> Congrats to everyone who put the time in and competed.


You don't have to agree, but the qualifications are there ;-)


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Geoff, my dog starts at the end of row 7 and goes for like 4 rows. He's the one with the overweight middle aged lady hanging around him.


Ahh Gotcya! Looks great and you had wonderful weather for the event. 

Are the results posted up anywhere yet? I'd love to hear how Frankie Cowen scored as he had a real successful selectif. Would anyone know any of the scores off the top of their heads?


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> He hasn't even decoyed a FR trial.


does ARF have rules against it?
in SCH the decoys show up and try out, the best are picked by how they perform, not what their decoy book says. Are their rules similar?


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Mike Lauer said:


> in SCH the decoys show up and try out, the best are picked by how they perform, not what their decoy book says. Are their rules similar?


That is not quite correct these days.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

WOW ..... Over 2000 views

Someone is interested in this thread and poll


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Mike Lauer said:


> does ARF have rules against it?
> in SCH the decoys show up and try out, the best are picked by how they perform, not what their decoy book says. Are their rules similar?



That is not always the case. Over the past several years some Regionals and the National events, the helpers are pre selected base on their certification through the Helper program.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Mario Fernandez said:


> That is not always the case. Over the past several years some Regionals and the National events, the helpers are pre selected base on their certification through the Helper program.


They are picked by club committees also.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> WOW ..... Over 2000 views
> 
> Someone is interested in this thread and poll


It is like a car wreck...you just have to slow down and look, even though it doesn't do anyone any good


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> It is like a car wreck...you just have to slow down and look, even though it doesn't do anyone any good


Same here, I've been following this thread, attempting to gleam some entertainment, and possibly information from it. So I keep up when I see new posts, even though I have nothing to add.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I just checked in to see what Ashley posted LOL....


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> WOW ..... Over 2000 views
> 
> Someone is interested in this thread and poll


You're probably responsible for a large percentage.


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> You're probably responsible for a large percentage.


 
lol
Imma start spamming the views just to make Jerry happy!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> WOW ..... Over 2000 views
> 
> Someone is interested in this thread and poll





Jennifer Coulter said:


> It is like a car wreck...you just have to slow down and look, even though it doesn't do anyone any good





Ashley Campbell said:


> Same here, I've been following this thread, attempting to gleam some entertainment, and possibly information from it. So I keep up when I see new posts, even though I have nothing to add.





Joby Becker said:


> I just checked in to see what Ashley posted LOL....


My wife is watching dancing with the stars


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> My wife is watching dancing with the stars


How boring. My sympathies for you to be subjected to such nonsense.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Hey pick your ring group you think will win the War in America





Ashley Campbell said:


> How boring. My sympathies for you to be subjected to such nonsense.


Like this is any better I'm off to go clip my toe nails


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

championship level 2 decoy or higher.


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## Wawashkashi Tashi (Aug 25, 2009)

Margaret Wheeler said:


> Aye! Her dogs were a big hit with Dominique too; he loves Boerboels!


Yep! He really seemed to like Teal! ;-)
As mentioned, she is a brindle Boerboel.. she's a "Champion" Weight Pull dog, but I've considered doing some kind of bitesport with her too. As she has *sic* speed & agility for a dog her size (though she's small by most Boerboel people's standards), Ringsport seems like a good choice.

















I'm definitely working her brother Neb in Ring.. hope to start trialing him next year! :-D


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