# Breeding Question



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm curious. Have you ever seen two "good" dogs produce not-so-good dogs? Conversely, have you ever seen mediocre or even "poor" dogs produce "good" dogs? 

I take it that a dog from supposedly excellent lines might not be such a "good" dog but it would still carry the "excellent" genes from its predecessors. Therefore this dog could, in theory, produce some excellent dogs even if it were just mediocre themself. 

Do you think this is accurate or not? Thanks.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Patrick, it is entirely possible that a medicre dog out of solid lines could throw better dogs than a titles sibling. Because a dog is titled doen't mean he can reproduce himself. Odds are better for all siblings if you look at the the pedigree and see the same dogs generation after generation.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

One of our club members has a dog that is a genetic masterpiece the deck is stacked perfect.
Its a shitter #-o
But believe me if you think you can toss two good dogs together and even kid yourself that something good is going to come from it your dreaming. Breeding great dogs is a art that just doesn't happen but it never hurts to have the moon and stars lined up.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

_"But believe me if you think you can toss two good dogs together and even kid yourself that something good is going to come from it your dreaming."_

I just don't see how you could mean what you worded here. Maybe if you said "everything" instead of "something", it would be more agreeable.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for the feedback. One day perhaps someone will unlock the genetics of breeding the "perfect" dog or perhaps cloning the best of the rest. 

Two seemingly "normal" intelligent people can produce offspring with disabilities just as less than "ideal" people (in terms of physical ability, intelligence) can and do produce healthy, bright people. 

Have any of you here seen offspring (I'm back to dogs now!  ) mature to be much different (good or bad) from their parents? 

Incidentally, I have no interest or desire to ever breed my dogs. I'm just curious about the topic. Thanks again.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

YES, Don finally started answering some breeding questions! ! ! ! ! LOL =D> =D> =D> =D>

Most litters have some form of shitter in it. Stupid genetics. I have put really nice dogs together and got **** all. Then I scratched my head as to what to do about it. Must have been a triple recessive for monster thresholds. You could have driven a semi over these pups at high speeds and they MIGHT have looked up.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I wonder, could these 'failures' simply mean the pedigrees weren't compatible or weren't matched up to produce a certain kind of dog (such as an outcross that could produce randomly)?


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Lyn, unless the lines are tight and produce what used to be called an actual predictable line of dogs, all breeding is random. As good as it gets pretty much says that two GSD's will produce GSD's. If there are two long standing lines that produce nerve and strong working temperaments, odds are in your favor. The American way of breeding is to import an outstandling dog and outcross to what they perceive will be a great bitch that has been outcrossed most every generation. I see it in Airedales all the time. Import a German dale from proven linebred lines and breed it to pooky and expect to set the world on fire with a schutzhund III. The odds say it won't happen even if you are lucky enough to pick the one dog that had potential. It is a waste of good money to import good dogs to breed the way most do it. In my mind, if all traits are not set on both sides of the equation, it is random breeding. One outcross will undo years of work. You can undo years of inbreeding with just one outcross.


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

I agree with Don. There have been males that have excelled on the field, but not in breeding. Sometimes a dog is a one dog wonder. Then maybe the dogs sibling end up producing better. 

It can happen like Mike said-a breeding that looks great on paper, seems the dogs really compliment each other and the litter doesn't meet your expectations. Then as the breeder, it's being able to be honest in your evaluation and back to the drawing board 

I think it's important to look at many variables. I like strong families, dogs that are producers of producers-that to me includes the females, not just the males. Plus really knowing and being honest in your evaluation of each dog and their strengths and weaknesses. 
I think breeding mediocre, produces that IMO.


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