# WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



## Denise Picicci

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D28HCSf_YSs


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## Howard Knauf

Nice way to put people on edge. Wonder how that transfers to the dog?


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## Lee H Sternberg

I wouldn't last long in that club w/o kicking some ass. It would not matter if that asshole was directing it at me or someone else.

Abuser!


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## Skip Morgart

Yep, WOW. Also, I see no dogs listed on his "Schutzhund Training" website that he has personally titled.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Man....kind of reminds me of Tourette's Guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY


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## Steve Estrada

There's a brain that's short of adjectives. What's in the heart comes out the mouth, abuser is great title. Noticed on his other videos feeding dog the sleeve...


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## Edward Egan

Where can I sign up for some training, I mean abuse. WTF? I wonder if the WDA knows how he acts?:roll:


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## Connie Sutherland

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Man....kind of reminds me of Tourette's Guy:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY



Apt comparison!


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## Kathy Barker

He's sounds like a stellar trainer. I'm kind of heartbroken I don't live closer to get some training in.

Wow, indeed.


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## Jane Jean

video has been set to private...bet the comments were scathing.


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## Thomas Barriano

The link to the actual video still works but the comments are disabled now? I wouldn't base my opinion of the guy on a 45 second video. Here is a fifteen minute clip of some pretty decent helper work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1SIscRjV0&feature=related


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## Skip Morgart

Thomas Barriano said:


> The link to the actual video still works but the comments are disabled now? I wouldn't base my opinion of the guy on a 45 second video. Here is a fifteen minute clip of some pretty decent helper work
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1SIscRjV0&feature=related


This doesn't negate the first one at all to me.


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## Chris McDonald

Man, it kills me to agree with Thomas again this year (hopefully the last time) but all you got is someone yelling and cursing for a half of minute. Granted what was shown of the video certainly did not make this guy out to be a nice guy. Im pretty sure all these people are free to go train someplace else if they want. Maybe he was trying to get a few to not show up next time?
I think whoever put this on youtube might a bigger scumbag than the scumbag in the video?


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## Skip Morgart

Chris McDonald said:


> Man, it kills me to agree with Thomas again this year (hopefully the last time) but all you got is someone yelling and cursing for a half of minute. Granted what was shown of the video certainly did not make this guy out to be a nice guy. Im pretty sure all these people are free to go train someplace else if they want. Maybe he was trying to get a few to not show up next time?
> I think whoever put this on youtube might a bigger scumbag than the scumbag in the video?


Naw...I've heard from several people that I respect now that have seen the guy in person. He's a horse's ass...treating women that way...and also treating the other helper that way. This kinda shit isn't isolated incidents at all from what I heard....but usually just with women (or the new other helper),,,yeah, tough guy. right.


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## Chris McDonald

You have more info than most, and chances are that because someone felt the need to record and post this the guy uses this “teaching philosophy” on a regular basses. If I didn’t like the way someone was running the show id just go someplace else.


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## Thomas Barriano

> I think whoever put this on youtube might a bigger scumbag than the scumbag in the video?


I totally agree. I didn't see any balls and chains around any ankles forcing them to train with the guy? Check out the 15 minute video. The guy does decent helper work. If your virgin ears don't like the F bomb go train with someone else


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## Chris McDonald

Thomas Barriano said:


> I totally agree. I didn't see any balls and chains around any ankles forcing them to train with the guy? Check out the 15 minute video. The guy does decent helper work. If your virgin ears don't like the F bomb go train with someone else


Ok, lets stop agreeing with each other, im getting pissed off now! Enough kissy kiss :smile:


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## Skip Morgart

Chris McDonald said:


> You have more info than most, and chances are that because someone felt the need to record and post this the guy uses this “teaching philosophy” on a regular basses. If I didn’t like the way someone was running the show id just go someplace else.



Yeah, people have the right to stay or go anytime, anywhere...but I have NEVER seen that kind of crap allowed anyplace. It has to be his own training place, so probably nobody around permanently that would consistently tolerate that. I still haven't seen anywhere where this "schutzhund trainer" has titled any dog of his own. That's usually the first thing a "trainer" would list on his website...didn't find any on his. As far as the longer video, it seemed like he was feeding the sleeve most of the time. I don't care what his "possible reasons" were for the lousy attitude of his in the 1st video, so defend him if you want, but I've seen enough (and heard enough from others) that confirm a lot about how I feel.


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## Chris McDonald

I hear you, I see your point and could see y you got it. im not really defending him, just saying id just find someplace else. If the guy yelled at me I wouldn’t post a video of him yelling. Really wouldn’t make me feel better.


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## Skip Morgart

Chris McDonald said:


> I hear you, I see your point and could see y you got it. im not really defending him, just saying id just find someplace else. If the guy yelled at me I wouldn’t post a video of him yelling. Really wouldn’t make me feel better.



Hey..people post videos of dogs, helpers doing bitework all the time. I don't blame anybody for putting a video on Youtube showing a helper brow-beating (bullying) some women (and a newer helper) on a video. Good to show what some people think is acceptable helper work, and what is lousy helper work...and proper attitude toward others on the field is just as important.


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## Skip Morgart

The 1st one has been moved BACK to private again.


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## Joby Becker

Skip Morgart said:


> The 1st one has been moved BACK to private again.


I downloaded it...I can put it back up, for the sake of this thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLxfDBFNbTQ


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## Joby Becker

Joby Becker said:


> I downloaded it...I can put it back up, for the sake of this thread...
> 
> comments are OPEN again ...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLxfDBFNbTQ


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## brad robert

I thought it was hilarious!! I dont think talking to women ever like that is ok but the helper he was criticising was limp i mean jesus could his arm be an weaker.


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## Gillian Schuler

I've been subjected to quite a bit of abusive speech whilst doing protection work but it was from *excellent* helpers and it sure made me "be on my toes" for the next session. One girl told me about a helper who had made her cry.

Well, I didn't cry, I shouted back. After training we laughed and joked over our beers as usual.

In the heat of the moment, when the helper is working the dog, the dog is doing well and the handler makes a stupid mistake, I can understand an outburst. To be called stupid in front of all the onlookers is not much fun but if you can learn from it.......In our group, men and women were treated the same.

Protection work is very often emotional. I won't comment on the video.

One of the comments I remember addressed to a girl handler (who was pretty good) was:

What the ...... are you standing there like a princess, call your ....... dog back!!


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## Christopher Jones

I lol'ed. After he talks like he does he would really want to have one killer dog and a score book full of V's.


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## Tyree Johnson

Id have to say something ..... idc how good he is.... its dog training, not military boot camp


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## Keith Jenkins

Thomas Barriano said:


> The link to the actual video still works but the comments are disabled now? I wouldn't base my opinion of the guy on a 45 second video. Here is a fifteen minute clip of some pretty decent helper work
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1SIscRjV0&feature=related


BS Thomas...we have a member in our club now who trained with that moron...he is that way pretty much full time...they were new to the sport and just didn't know any better...now they do.


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## Skip Morgart

Claims to be a National Level Helper...seems like he did some helper work for a National SIEGER show...have you ever seen the very limited amount of helper work done at a sieger conformation show? Also, if anybody finds the dogs this "schutzhund trainer" has titled, let us all know please. I have to bet that he relies on the motto "It's not what you know, it's what you can make other people THINK you know.".


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## rick smith

wasn't all that impressed with the long clip and didn't see the first one, but regardless, i always make it clear when i'm working with someone that there might be times when i want to step in and take over quickly with NO questions asked at that time ... they can save em for later

regarding the ragging issue ... some people do better with pressure and some fold.....treat everyone the same and you're a pretty crappy teacher (if that's what you are trying to be)
- some people can handle their dog and listen to background advice...many can't

- but if i'm paying someone i want them to show ME how to do it, not do it for me all the time. i see a LOT of clips that are only showing a trained helper training a dog with the owner TOTALLY out of the picture learning ZIP .... imo that should happen MINIMALLY, not all the time ... most of the helper work i see may be helping the dog but isn't affecting the owner (who i assume is holding the lead), so it's no wonder their dog doesn't pay attention to them

- otoh, in the Ellis videos i see owners getting more hands on work which is how i define effective dog training ... haven't seen a lot but the ones i have watched have been good that way, and i'm sure there are a lot more trainers like him out there


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## Lori Gallo

Wouldn't subject myself to that kind of person for even a minute. I'd take my dog and go home.


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## Thomas Barriano

Keith Jenkins said:


> BS Thomas...we have a member in our club now who trained with that moron...he is that way pretty much full time...they were new to the sport and just didn't know any better...now they do.


Keith,

I never heard of the guy before I saw the video. I trained with people like him years ago. That style of training was a lot more common then it is now. You don't like the training or the abuse? Find someone you like better. Don't post a 45 second clip on You tube and whine about how you're abused.
I didn't say the helper work on the 15 minute was the best I'd ever seen, I said it was "decent".


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## shawn murace

Skip Morgart said:


> Claims to be a National Level Helper...seems like he did some helper work for a National SIEGER show...have you ever seen the very limited amount of helper work done at a sieger conformation show? Also, if anybody finds the dogs this "schutzhund trainer" has titled, let us all know please. I have to bet that he relies on the motto "It's not what you know, it's what you can make other people THINK you know.".


He is a national helper for the WDA. Since all the dogs in the working class are "schutzhund" titled he is therefore a trainer of said schutzhund canines.


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## Skip Morgart

shawn murace said:


> He is a national helper for the WDA. Since all the dogs in the working class are "schutzhund" titled he is therefore a trainer of said schutzhund canines.


I hope you are just trying to be funny? Since he has been a "helper" at a show for dogs in the "working class" are you trying to say that makes him a TRAINER of those dogs?


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## Keith Jenkins

Thomas Barriano said:


> Keith,
> 
> I never heard of the guy before I saw the video. I trained with people like him years ago. That style of training was a lot more common then it is now. You don't like the training or the abuse? Find someone you like better. Don't post a 45 second clip on You tube and whine about how you're abused.
> I didn't say the helper work on the 15 minute was the best I'd ever seen, I said it was "decent".


Really? I've seen 3-4 of those clips and every single one was pretty much the same crap. 

I think if you've been around the sport long enough you've probably ran across those types somewhere...you can't paint this right so don't try.


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## Molly Graf

<Wouldn't subject myself to that kind of person for even a minute. I'd take my dog and go home.>

I'm with you Lori - no way would I tolerate this kind of treatment/abuse from any "trainer", no matter how "great" they think they are. There are plenty of better trainers who are respectful of the people they are "helping".

molly


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## Thomas Barriano

Keith Jenkins said:


> Really? I've seen 3-4 of those clips and every single one was pretty much the same crap.
> 
> I think if you've been around the sport long enough you've probably ran across those types somewhere...you can't paint this right so don't try.


Keith,

I'm not trying to paint anything.
Steve House is a big meanie and it's just a darn shame that those poor defenseless little women are forced to put up with his abuse. Golly gosh ghee whiz maybe someone should go tell Steve to quit being so mean?


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## shawn murace

Skip Morgart said:


> I hope you are just trying to be funny? Since he has been a "helper" at a show for dogs in the "working class" are you trying to say that makes him a TRAINER of those dogs?


I was being sarcastic but forget the smiley face.


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## Skip Morgart

shawn murace said:


> I was being sarcastic but forget the smiley face.


Glad you were being sarcastic.


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## Skip Morgart

Thomas Barriano said:


> Keith,
> 
> I'm not trying to paint anything.
> Steve House is a big meanie and it's just a darn shame that those poor defenseless little women are forced to put up with his abuse. Golly gosh ghee whiz maybe someone should go tell Steve to quit being so mean?



Yeah, kind of like the wife/girlfriend beaters out there that convince the women to stick around because he treats them so well when they are not being abused.


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## kerry engels

He may do pretty good as a drill instructor:smile: sounded kinda like a line out of Full Metal Jacket\\/


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## Eric Read

at the risk of being dragged into an internet pissing match that will get nowhere, I want to respond.

What you're seeing is nothing more than an edited hack job by someone with an ax to grind. 

Denise, I find it to be extremely poor taste and kind of pathetic for you to even come here post it just so you can grind some long ago ax.

I've trained with Steve quite a few times, but not in recent years. I can assure you he isn't just like this with women.  he had his foot up my ass a few times as well. and pretty much everyone else's at one point or another.

Here's a video of him providing commentary when I was learning helper work myself. Notice the use of much of the same adjectives. He made me do it again, and again, till I did it right. Then there were high fives, beer, and encouraging words. Just like an old school trainer, the praise matches the correction. Some people don't like it.

<object width="320" height="240" ><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="movie" value="http://www.facebook.com/v/90643269604" /><embed src="http://www.facebook.com/v/90643269604" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="240"></embed></object>

Regardless of what you think of his personal style, he is a good helper. He pushes you and if it's not your style, you're not going to like it. 

He has a few choice adjectives he likes to use, big deal. This is just like an edited video of "police brutality" on the news. Edit out anything that can show you any context and a more accurate picture and just cut and use what can benefit your agenda. 

I've seen him work with people with no talent to lots of talent. If you're trying, he's on your side. If you're giving your best, he's on your side.

If you don't have much talent and continue to work, he's on your side. If you have lots and slack off, be ready cause he'll be on you. If you're doing helper work and decide to take a play off, he's on your ass. If you can pop that sleeve to your chest and you only twitch it at your waist, he'll be on you. If you're supposed to be running and you're half assed walking, well you're going to get what you're asking for. 

If you're asking for 100% from the dog and you're only willing to give 50% yourself , he'll be on you again. and rightly so. If you're on the leash and asleep at the wheel, he's on your ass.

If you're in the game, everything is just fine.

Nobody is forced to train with anybody, come and go as you please. I'd be happy to have Steve come work my dogs anytime.


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## Thomas Barriano

Skip Morgart said:


> Yeah, kind of like the wife/girlfriend beaters out there that convince the women to stick around because he treats them so well when they are not being abused.


Skip

Are you fukin serious? You look at a 45 second video clip and you're comparing the guy to a wife beater? Good GOD you gotta love the Interweb


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## Skip Morgart

Thomas Barriano said:


> Skip
> 
> Are you fukin serious? You look at a 45 second video clip and you're comparing the guy to a wife beater? Good GOD you gotta love the Interweb


Well, that might have been an unfair shot....it's just that I have no patience for punks, and that's what I saw, and that's what I've heard from several others is his style. I still don't see any training accomplishments he's done on his own. And as far as any of his shit just being "old school", I don't buy that either. I train at the oldest SchH club in the US....many top level helpers have got a lot of their training here...like Clark Niematalo and others....and a ton of dogs have been titled here, and many by the TD and his wife...and I just know that crap would never be tolerated...here or at any other club I know.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Thomas Barriano said:


> Skip
> 
> Are you fukin serious? You look at a 45 second video clip and you're comparing the guy to a wife beater? Good GOD you gotta love the Interweb


Damn serial killer!#-o:grin:


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## Edward Egan

I was a bit hasty on my opinion, I watch another of his video's and he wasn't nearly as bad. Still not my cup of tea though, OK, but not great helper work.


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## Keith Jenkins

Eric Read said:


> at the risk of being dragged into an internet pissing match that will get nowhere, I want to respond.
> 
> What you're seeing is nothing more than an edited hack job by someone with an ax to grind.
> 
> Denise, I find it to be extremely poor taste and kind of pathetic for you to even come here post it just so you can grind some long ago ax.
> 
> I've trained with Steve quite a few times, but not in recent years. I can assure you he isn't just like this with women.  he had his foot up my ass a few times as well. and pretty much everyone else's at one point or another.
> 
> Here's a video of him providing commentary when I was learning helper work myself. Notice the use of much of the same adjectives. He made me do it again, and again, till I did it right. Then there were high fives, beer, and encouraging words. Just like an old school trainer, the praise matches the correction. Some people don't like it.
> 
> <object width="320" height="240" ><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="movie" value="http://www.facebook.com/v/90643269604" /><embed src="http://www.facebook.com/v/90643269604" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="240"></embed></object>
> 
> Regardless of what you think of his personal style, he is a good helper. He pushes you and if it's not your style, you're not going to like it.
> 
> He has a few choice adjectives he likes to use, big deal. This is just like an edited video of "police brutality" on the news. Edit out anything that can show you any context and a more accurate picture and just cut and use what can benefit your agenda.
> 
> I've seen him work with people with no talent to lots of talent. If you're trying, he's on your side. If you're giving your best, he's on your side.
> 
> If you don't have much talent and continue to work, he's on your side. If you have lots and slack off, be ready cause he'll be on you. If you're doing helper work and decide to take a play off, he's on your ass. If you can pop that sleeve to your chest and you only twitch it at your waist, he'll be on you. If you're supposed to be running and you're half assed walking, well you're going to get what you're asking for.
> 
> If you're asking for 100% from the dog and you're only willing to give 50% yourself , he'll be on you again. and rightly so. If you're on the leash and asleep at the wheel, he's on your ass.
> 
> If you're in the game, everything is just fine.
> 
> Nobody is forced to train with anybody, come and go as you please. I'd be happy to have Steve come work my dogs anytime.



I didn't start the thread but there just isn't any place for this type of shit in the sport....this isn't me being thin skinned because I got more ass than you got teeth so you can chew all day long...this is about having a little simple respect regardless of gender.


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## Gillian Schuler

I don't know this Steve person but found all the "effing" useless. Whether or not his putting pressure on the dog handlers brought results at the next training session, I wouldn't know.

When I first started in IPO in the early 1990's, a lot of helpers were club members and worked our dogs for free. Every so often someone would pay for his beer and we would collect to buy him a present for Christmas. 

The idea of paying a helper for his work was often discussed but then, to be fair, we'd have had to pay all the trainers/ instructors.

Nowadays, it's hard to find good helpers - some still do it for a free meal and drinks - others are happy with something like Swiss Francs 15.- for working your dog twice in the session. It has also become fashionable to set up dog training schools, they are rising like mushrooms out of the ground. Here the prices vary. A lot of people who pay for services are not very selective when choosing a helper. If the helper makes their dog look good and treats them in a courteous manner, they are happy.

Today, with the job pressures that prevail, some think "why should I take this BS, I have enough of it at work."

I've had some very good men work my dogs, from idealistic club helpers who maybe called me a few names at time when I wasn't giving of my best to Ronny van den Bergh, Elmar Mannes, etc. who were being paid for giving the seminar.

Eric Read mentioned the fact about the helper giving 100% and the handler 50%. Whether being paid or not, I think this would frustrate any helper.

However, any crticism, foul-mouthed or courteous should be constructive.


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## Lacey Vessell

Looks like this edited video made it to more then a few forums with the same title. I think it is BS to take *short edited video clips of several moments in time* *during training* and plaster it all over the internet for the purpose of defaming someones character because you have a personal gripe with somebody. The internet makes things to easy for these type of people, cowards, who don't have the courage to confront the person they are defaming in person. I'm thinking that the person in this video, who I don't personally know, is not a member of this forum or others because he is probably out there training dogs instead of talking about it. Might want to look at the other forums to get the other side of this story from people that know both the poster and person in the video and reportedly trained together with both of them* for MORE then a few years*. I knew there had to be a history behind all this ...as I've seen this kinda crap happen far to often since the inception of the internet. Not a big deal...unless it is you personally that people have done this to.

*I'm sure no one else had moments in time that they were glad that no one was around to film, on or off the training field. *

If, as someone stated, this person is like this all the time - then it should have came to no surprise to whoever decides to train with him. The excuse that a person is new to the sport so they did not know any better...is just that...an excuse. I would understand completely that they did not know if the person was or was not a good training helper or trainer because of their lack of knowledge of the sport/dog training but come on......I doubt if anyone can say they are new to meeting people of different personalities or new to what they personally will accept when being talked to or won't accept. Don't like how your being spoken to - leave...Don't like how someone is - don't train with them....cut and dry.....to each their own. 

I agree..."there isn't a place for this type of shit in the sport" = compiling edited video clips of moments in time during training just to get a rise out of people because you have a personal vendetta. If a person truly cared about the sport - they would not post such crap.


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## Keith Jenkins

So now it's a personal vendetta? No truth to it at all, huh? Next time you come visit I'll point you to the person to ask about how often that happened. Are they going to be a liar?


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## Thomas Barriano

Keith

The point is, it's NOT the whole truth. It's a edited video of moments in time designed to defame Steve House. I might not ever want to train with the dude but obviously others do.
I totally agree with Lacey.


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## Skip Morgart

Keith Jenkins said:


> So now it's a personal vendetta? No truth to it at all, huh? Next time you come visit I'll point you to the person to ask about how often that happened. Are they going to be a liar?


Keith...some will use the excuse that "anybody has the freedom to stay or go there", and that is absolutely anybody's right....BUT I just don't see how anybody can justify tolerating that crap. We've both heard how this is not an isolated incident in the guy's methods, so it can't just be somebody's "personal vendetta". If that's the way somebody wants to spend there money, so be it, but I am just amazed how it could be justified. I still have seen no accomplishments that the guy has done with any dogs of his own, but maybe he has and it just hasn't been made public, or I just haven't found it. Maybe the guy has done some "decent helper work", but we are talking about a guy TRAINING others, and to me that comes with a lot more responsibility than whatever his own personal helper work level is. I can't imagine any husband/boyfriend that would ever tolerate their wife/girlfriend being spoken to like that, let alone paying the guy for that. But yeah, people have the freedom to go there and spend their money anytime they want, and as often as they want, but freedom doesn't always equal intelligent choices.


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## Britney Pelletier

Skip Morgart said:


> Keith...some will use the excuse that "anybody has the freedom to stay or go there", and that is absolutely anybody's right....BUT I just don't see how anybody can justify tolerating that crap. We've both heard how this is not an isolated incident in the guy's methods, so it can't just be somebody's "personal vendetta". If that's the way somebody wants to spend there money, so be it, but I am just amazed how it could be justified. I still have seen no accomplishments that the guy has done with any dogs of his own, but maybe he has and it just hasn't been made public, or I just haven't found it. Maybe the guy has done some "decent helper work", but we are talking about a guy TRAINING others, and to me that comes with a lot more responsibility than whatever his own personal helper work level is. I can't imagine any husband/boyfriend that would ever tolerate their wife/girlfriend being spoken to like that, let alone paying the guy for that. But yeah, people have the freedom to go there and spend their money anytime they want, and as often as they want, but freedom doesn't always equal intelligent choices.



Amen! :mrgreen:


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## Lacey Vessell

thank you Thomas - my point exactly.

Keith I think I have already spoken to the person your speaking of - the last time I visited your club. Nice woman who did not like this trainers methods or demeanor and left to find a better match for her and her dog. I have no reason to call her a liar and to be honest with you, the person that I spoke to was not really *that* critical of this trainer although she did say she was much happier training with who she trains with now - a better trainer and fit for her and her dog. I don't think she is the one that posted this video, she did not strike me as a person who would do such a thing....but hey I've been wrong before.

The trainer is who he is....I don't doubt that he curses and treats people differently then some want or are accustomed to - I have a potty mouth at times and I have been known to get frustrated with people who I've trained (not dog training) and told time and time again how to do something and they keep screwing things up. The thing is...if you don't like how your being treated - leave. If you don't like someone's training method - don't train with them. If you have a personal problem with someone or their training- don't post an edited video on the internet. Give us the WHOLE story.......better yet confront the person face to face.


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## Thomas Barriano

Skip,

I don't really care what my trainer has accomplished with his dog IF he helps me accomplish results with my dog. I think Steve is a training decoy NOT a competitor? I also don't think all the trash talk was personal. Some people have a more colorful vocabulary
then others. It's about choice and results.


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## Keith Jenkins

Thomas Barriano said:


> Keith
> 
> The point is, it's NOT the whole truth. It's a edited video of moments in time designed to defame Steve House. I might not ever want to train with the dude but obviously others do.
> I totally agree with Lacey.


What is the whole truth...he's not like 100% of the time? So friggin what if he's not. Thomas you and I agreed on a lot of things over the years but we are polar opposites this time around. 

If people think that is proper conduct that's great but to some unspecting client it may not be and only take that 45 second tirade to completely turn them off of the sport and never give it a second look. 

God as my witness if he, or anyone pulled that crap with my other half there wouldn't be a second time.


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## Skip Morgart

Thomas Barriano said:


> Skip,
> 
> I don't really care what my trainer has accomplished with his dog IF he helps me accomplish results with my dog. I think Steve is a training decoy NOT a competitor? I also don't think all the trash talk was personal. Some people have a more colorful vocabulary
> then others. It's about choice and results.


Well, the guy advertises himself as a "schutzhund trainer", which covers a lot more than him just being a helper. If someone is a trainer in the sport, then I expect them to have made some basic accomplishments on their OWN that they are teaching ME about, otherwise it sends a lot of red flags. For a "trainer", big abusive talk is no tradeoff for accomplishments and knowledge and HOW to train.


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## Thomas Barriano

Keith Jenkins said:


> If people think that is proper conduct that's great but to some unspecting client it may not be and only take that 45 second tirade to completely turn them off of the sport and never give it a second look.


Keith

It's all in context. Does he talk that way to everybody and is it personal? From the 45 second clip it looks like he talks the same to the helper as he does to the female handlers? Trying to paint the guy as a foul mouthed male chauvinist pig isn't accurate.
If someone is turned off from the sport based on a 45 second edited video then "Fuk em"


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## Joby Becker

defamation is the use of falsities, and presenting untrue things as facts, opinions are not defamation.

this is a straight video of someone's own actions, obviously ones that wish to elicit a certain reaction out of viewers, but nonetheless, it hardly qualifies as defamation, it is merely a short collection of behaviors exhibited by the individual, that someone put together...there isnt even anything stated in it, no narrative, no false facts...just footage of the individuals actions...unless this is not the individual in question, there is no defamation.

same thing as a a 45 second clip of anyone else acting like a total toolbag (opinion), no more no less...dont want a video to get out, dont allow video....


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## Keith Jenkins

Personal or not or if he talks to his priest that way makes no difference and is no excuse for acting like that...period. 

I spent my time in the military and 30 plus years in construction so I've heard it plenty and said more than my share. Guess I was brought up a bit different when it comes to how someone should act towards people.


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## allen byrd

Just giving my 2cets worth in this and that is as follows - It is nice to be important but ii's important to be nice, and secondly - If your going to dish it out then you DAMM well better be able to take it back - weather your the director of the club, or wheather you the one who cleans up all the diog poop.
Then again that just me.

Allen BYRD


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## Gillian Schuler

i've learned more "bad" words and read more abuse on here from time to time than I've ever encountered on the training field :grin:


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## Chris Jones II

that's one angry convict! surprising noone put any lead on his ass. i saw some other video of him jamming sleeves.


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## Bob Scott

Gillian Schuler said:


> i've learned more "bad" words and read more abuse on here from time to time than I've ever encountered on the training field :grin:



:-D:-D:-D :wink:


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## Skip Morgart

Gillian Schuler said:


> i've learned more "bad" words and read more abuse on here from time to time than I've ever encountered on the training field :grin:


And all FREELY from the comfort of your own home with no extra added expense of paying somebody for it! WHAT A DEAL!!


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## Donna Madden

left outHi Everyone, I am the one who took the video and posted it. the comments were shut off because they were very threatening. I trained with him, and that it was how it was EVERY session. I did not show the worst of the language or tirades. I went to train at Central Virginia Schutzhund Club in Richmond VA area.
Like night and day! Super people and great training director: Jacob Pope. I can only liken my experience to people who join a cult, or Stockholm Syndrome. Only one male pretty much in the group. Most men do not stay for some reason??


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## Donna Madden

Hi Jane, the video is public, i am not taking anymore comments
Donna
http://youtu.be/D28HCSf_YSs


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## Lisa Brazeau

That video is awesome. Hilarious! Perhaps he lacks tact, but his observations were pretty square! LOL
"He's still wrapped around your tit!" was my favorite part. 

If you don't like the dude's style, don't train with him. I would not take that kind of barrage - not because he's not correct, but because it would be hard to learn anything through that kind of delivery.

But I LOVE the vid - funny as hell!


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## Lisa Brazeau

Upon second look, I'm putting that vid in my 'Favorites.' LMFAO!!!! 

"He aint wrapped around my dick!" - Classic!


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## Jane Jean

I wonder how many handlers have slipped the line 'accidentally' when he is berating them? Hope he had a sleeve on to take the bite when it happened. I thought it was pretty funny, and had to share it with my group ....lets us remember how *nice* our helper is!


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## Donna Madden

Thomas, I said nothing of the man's technical skills, that is not the issue. Would you send your mother, sister, wife or daughter to train with? Would you put up with him talking to you like that?


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## Donna Madden

Chris McDonald
Since you referred to me as a "scumbag", I thought I would introduce myself. I am a former police officer,
who will turn 60 this year and am now a professional "grandmother", and Schutzhund enthusiast. I recently got a bh with my dog. I have been called worse, but I just wanted you to know a little more about the "scumbag" you were referring to.
Donna


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## Thomas Barriano

Donna Madden said:


> Thomas, I said nothing of the man's technical skills, that is not the issue. Would you send your mother, sister, wife or daughter to train with? Would you put up with him talking to you like that?


Donna

The issue is YOU posted an edited video designed to put someone (Steve House) in a bad light. After you'd trained with him for years. You didn't seem to have a problem until after you left?
I also read the thread on the PDB where there are several people (including one of the women in the 45 second clip) that are VERY happy with the training they're getting?
Your vendetta is PERSONAL and I have no interest in smear campaigns. SHAME on YOU


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## Keith Jenkins

You have absoultely no problem doing the smearing as long as it's you doing it Thomas so don't go high and mighty.


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## Donna Madden

Thomas he issue is YOU posted an edited video designed to put someone (Steve House) in a bad light. After you'd trained with him for years. You didn't seem to have a problem until after you left?
I also read the thread on the PDB where there are several people (including one of the women in the 45 second clip) that are VERY happy with the training they're getting?
Your vendetta is PERSONAL and I have no interest in smear campaigns. SHAME on YOU


I was their a few months..that was it! I could not even spell Schutzhund before that.


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## Donna Madden

Thomas,
If you read the entire post I had written there you would see there was more that went on, I suggest you go back and re-read what I wrote! Women who are mentally and physically abused by their partners will support them to the last blow! Fact, so don't tell me about the woman defending him. As I wrote on the other database, I have the emails and texts where she tells me she can't take this anymore and wants him on medication just to stay in the house! I tried to help her, when she reused to take further action I left!

Nothing is ever that simple. I have hours of video, which he asked my to record him where he does the same thing as on the 40 minute clip..so what is your point, do you want to see the many hours of the same thing?

I am new to this sport and love it, now! I saw people, men and women being run off by his methods who were new to the sport like me, that is a shame.
I am done here with all of this. I am just here to train with my "boy" I will say "hi" again in a year of so.
In the mean time I am training with nice people at a great club; Central Virginia Schutzhund Club. Best wishes for good scores and good health to you and your dogs for the coming year everyone! Donna


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## Keith Jenkins

See you Saturday Donna!


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## Donna Madden

Thank, Keith!


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## Thomas Barriano

Donna

Leave the drama on the PDB. This isn't the place for it.
You didn't like the training? You moved on. Let the vendetta die.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Thomas Barriano said:


> Donna
> 
> Leave the drama on the PDB. This isn't the place for it.
> You didn't like the training? You moved on. Let the vendetta die.


I thought the "D" in WDF stood for DRAMA.:razz:\\/

What a letdown!


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## Skip Morgart

Thomas Barriano said:


> Donna
> 
> Leave the drama on the PDB. This isn't the place for it.
> You didn't like the training? You moved on. Let the vendetta die.



Thomas..

The mods here are pretty good at deciding what goes and what stays. If you don't like what she posts, then put her on your ignore list and you'll never see her posts again.


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## Thomas Barriano

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I thought the "D" in WDF stood for DRAMA.:razz:\\/
> 
> What a letdown!


Lee 

At our age you should be used to disappointment ? 
If you want Drama bring Jeff or Jeffanie back ;-)


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## Lee H Sternberg

Thomas Barriano said:


> Lee
> 
> At our age you should be used to disappointment ?
> If you want Drama bring Jeff or Jeffanie back ;-)


We have a few here fighting hard for NUMBER ONE JEFF status, don't ya think?:lol:


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## Thomas Barriano

Skip Morgart said:


> Thomas..
> 
> The mods here are pretty good at deciding what goes and what stays. If you don't like what she posts, then put her on your ignore list and you'll never see her posts again.


Skip,

How about letting the mod do their jobs and not try to second guess what they will or wouldn't allow?
I expressed an opinion of the heavily edited 45 second clip and the reasons it was posted. Donna is new to the sport and used
an edited training video to attack people she trained with.
If she continues that type of action she will soon run out of people to train with (airing your dirty linen in public?)
Every club I've ever trained with has had something happen
or had something said that they wouldn't want made public.

Abuse: When I know someone who is being abused. I advise them. I inform them of counseling options and availability.
I might offer them a place to stay. I don't post their name on
a public list and threaten to reveal private emails or conversations. 

Adults are free to train with whoever they want, without an ignorant noob sticking their two cents in.


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## Thomas Barriano

Lee H Sternberg said:


> We have a few here fighting hard for NUMBER ONE JEFF status, don't ya think?:lol:


Lee,

Jeff is supposed to be moving to Calhan in the Spring. So you can meet him in person. Jeff can be fun but he can't control himself online


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## Skip Morgart

Thomas Barriano said:


> Skip,
> 
> How about letting the mod do their jobs and not try to second guess what they will or wouldn't allow?
> I expressed an opinion of the heavily edited 45 second clip and the reasons it was posted. Donna is new to the sport and used
> an edited training video to attack people she trained with.
> If she continues that type of action she will soon run out of people to train with (airing your dirty linen in public?)
> Every club I've ever trained with has had something happen
> or had something said that they wouldn't want made public.
> 
> Abuse: When I know someone who is being abused. I advise them. I inform them of counseling options and availability.
> I might offer them a place to stay. I don't post their name on
> a public list and threaten to reveal private emails or conversations.
> 
> Adults are free to train with whoever they want, without an ignorant noob sticking their two cents in.


Well, so far they have allowed all the posts by Donna. YOU keep saying her posts don't belong here. It seems the mods think hers should stay, that is pretty obvious, so it seems YOU think your opinion should carry more weight that the mods. As far as your comment that "If she continues that type of action she will soon run out of people to train with" seems incorrect also, because it seems Keith and the others at his club are very happy to have her train there.


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## Connie Sutherland

Well, looks like everyone has had a chance to speak if they chose to.

Probably don't want to segue into a flame war that doesn't even involve the original post.


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## Thomas Barriano

Skip Morgart said:


> Well, so far they have allowed all the posts by Donna. YOU keep saying her posts don't belong here. It seems the mods think hers should stay, that is pretty obvious, so it seems YOU think your opinion should carry more weight that the mods. As far as your comment that "If she continues that type of action she will soon run out of people to train with" seems incorrect also, because it seems Keith and the others at his club are very happy to have her train there.


You're confused Skip. Donnas first post on the video that she edited and put on You Tube was the 66th on this topic.
I didn't say her posts shouldn't be allowed. It is my opinion that the subject was inappropriate to begin with and the whole thread should be locked.

Keith and his club are happy to have her now. I doubt that they'll be happy if she posted a heavily edited video that showed the club in a bad light or otherwise caused trouble.


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## Joby Becker

Thomas Barriano said:


> You're confused Skip. Donnas first post on the video that she edited and put on You Tube was the 66th on this topic.
> I didn't say her posts shouldn't be allowed. It is my opinion that the subject was inappropriate to begin with and the whole thread should be locked.
> 
> Keith and his club are happy to have her now. I doubt that they'll be happy if she posted a heavily edited video that showed the club in a bad light or otherwise caused trouble.


for someone who does not want names mentioned on the internet or posting of personal details, you sure like to go on about a certain e-collar guru


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## Keith Jenkins

While I can't speak for the entire club I can speak for myself. If I step on my Johnson and it's filmed and posted my bad. May not be real happy about it but it'll be up to me to make sure *I* don't put myself in that situation.


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## Thomas Barriano

Joby Becker said:


> for someone who does not want names mentioned on the internet or posting of personal details, you sure like to go on about a certain e-collar guru


Joby

Where do you get I don't want names mentioned or personal details?


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## Joby Becker

Thomas Barriano said:


> Joby
> 
> Where do you get I don't want names mentioned or personal details?


think I might have misinterpreted something in a confusing earlier post about posting abuse victim's names..
my apologies


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## Thomas Barriano

Keith Jenkins said:


> While I can't speak for the entire club I can speak for myself. If I step on my Johnson and it's filmed and posted my bad. May not be real happy about it but it'll be up to me to make sure *I* don't put myself in that situation.



What if someone edits a video that makes it look like you do something all the time when it is a rare?
What if someone posts a private conversation to a list?
What's said or done at club. Stays at club.


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## Connie Sutherland

Keith Jenkins said:


> While I can't speak for the entire club I can speak for myself. If I step on my Johnson and it's filmed and posted my bad. May not be real happy about it but it'll be up to me to make sure *I* don't put myself in that situation.


I agree.

Does anyone think the camera was hidden?

Does anyone believe that in this day of YouTube and everything else that what happens _anywhere_ where there are videos being shot stays there?


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## Joby Becker

THomas...

I just am surprised that you are so wound up about this topic...Yes it is obvious that she has a beef with this guy, and that the video was made to try to make him look bad..so what...the footage WAS of him, it was not manufactured...

I think if someone that does not like me posted a video of me falling down drunk and my dog sitting on top of me, I might not like it, but I would not claim it was false, or untrue. even though it only happened one time in my life... 

If it was caught on tape, it obviously happened...

Again just surprised that you are so vocal about her wanting to make a guy look bad, because she does not like the man, when there are so many insulting posts that you make, about said E collar guru, that are obviously trying to make him look bad, seemingly because you do not like him....and talking about how this topic is so inappropriate...

Tell me honestly, if you did not have some footage of our uncle acting super stupid, you would not post it...you would be all over it


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## Skip Morgart

Thomas Barriano said:


> You're confused Skip. Donnas first post on the video that she edited and put on You Tube was the 66th on this topic.
> I didn't say her posts shouldn't be allowed. It is my opinion that the subject was inappropriate to begin with and the whole thread should be locked.
> 
> Keith and his club are happy to have her now. I doubt that they'll be happy if she posted a heavily edited video that showed the club in a bad light or otherwise caused trouble.


Nope, not confused at all. We all have people, videos, opinions that we think might be exaggerated, edited, or inappropriate. My opinion, based on talking to others that I respect BEFORE I even posted on this thread, is that this is normal behavior for Steve House, and that it has no business in the sport (or anywhere). I do my "due diligence" on people that raise red flags to me. 
If the person that created the video (Donna) had a reputation for doing this with other clubs, then that would also weigh into my opinion, but I haven't seen any...just multiple comments from people that have contacted me that point to Steve having the real problem. Donna and her new club seem very happy with each other. I also couldn't find any real personal accomplishments by Steve, which also adds to my red flags about the guy. Many big talkers are just big talkers, and lack both knowledge and social skills, so they have to make up for it in some real BS at times. Now, it seems very possible that their is quite a bit of more info to possibly substantiate the abuse (or at LEAST to raise some SERIOUS questions), so I have no problem to the video being shown. Personally, I could never come on here and condone such behavior with the weak excuse of "people have the freedom to not go there", the "vendetta" crap, and anything else that thinks there isn't some real issues that this guy has. The problem isn't Donna. I feel very sorry for the woman in the house that wants him on meds. Even though she has made excuses for him, maybe the video will give her and others some strength down the road to make some better decisions.


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## Eric Read

I wonder if being able to tell when a horse is dead and not worthy of beating is an acquired skill or something one is born with? and if it can be acquired, just how many years does it take for one to attain that skill?


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## Thomas Barriano

Skip,

I don't care about Steve House. Based on all the video I've seen I probably wouldn't train with him. Different training styles and personalities. I would NOT train with anyone and then edit a video
and post it on You Tube to make them look bad. I'd just move on.

Joby

If I had video of Uncle Lou looking like a fool? I'd post it Yep
What I would NOT do is edit a video to make him look worse then it was.


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## Joby Becker

Thomas Barriano said:


> Skip,
> 
> I don't care about Steve House. Based on all the video I've seen I probably wouldn't train with him. Different training styles and personalities. I would NOT train with anyone and then edit a video
> and post it on You Tube to make them look bad. I'd just move on.
> 
> Joby
> 
> If I had video of Uncle Lou looking like a fool? I'd post it Yep
> What I would NOT do is edit a video to make him look worse then it was.


ok so if the video was of a seminar and it was 2 hours long, and he looked like a real total idiot only one time for 30 seconds,.....your saying you would post the entire 2 hour video? 

c'mon man...you know you wouldnt...


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## Thomas Barriano

Jody,

It's a moot point. There is no video of any Lou Castle seminars or of him training dogs or of any dog he has trained.


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## Bob Scott

lets not bring anyone into this that isn't a part of it as per the op.


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## Joby Becker

Thomas Barriano said:


> Jody,
> 
> It's a moot point. There is no video of any Lou Castle seminars or of him training dogs or of any dog he has trained.


TOUCHE' 

(was not talking about that Ecollar guru though, glad you took the opportunity to take another swipe at someone you dont appear to like, attempting to make him look bad to people)


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## Keith Jenkins

Thomas Barriano said:


> What if someone edits a video that makes it look like you do something all the time when it is a rare?
> What if someone posts a private conversation to a list?
> What's said or done at club. Stays at club.


I'm responsible for my actions...me. Whether it's 1 time or 100 it all boils down to me. Same can be said for my conversations. If I say it I say it and it's still my responsibility. I don't have to be pleased about it but I pretty much don't say anything I have a problem with being repeated.


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## Bob Scott

Keith Jenkins said:


> I'm responsible for my actions...me. Whether it's 1 time or 100 it all boils down to me. Same can be said for my conversations. If I say it I say it and it's still my responsibility. I don't have to be pleased about it but I pretty much don't say anything I have a problem with being repeated.



It's really as simple as that isn't it! :wink:

This thread is done!


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