# Ufc 116



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

I didn't realize this was coming up so fast. I'm very interested to see Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin. I think even more so because Lesnar is training with Couture!!!!!!!!!

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/Th...onents,_couture,_lesnar_now_training_together

Brock Lesnar + Training Advice from Randy Couture = Scary

I wonder if Shane Carwin isn't cursing Couture's name under his breath right now. Lesnar might not be the most diplomatic fighter, but he's already scary as a relatively new fighter just from what little I've seen, and the more he learns I can't help but imagine the more freakish it's going to be to watch him. It will be interesting to see where he ends up at his peak.

Anyway, until/unless we get Manny vs. Pac or somehow get Lesnar vs. Fedor, this (and probably Overeem vs. Fedor) seems about as big as it can get in the world of combat sports.

-Cheers


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Lesnar was born in the wrong century...he shoulda been a viking. I think this will be Lesnar's first REAL fight. Should be fun. Lesnar v Fedor...I dont think Lesnar would have a snowballs chance in hell against Fedor. I'm curious how Lesnar's chicken legs would fair against some good kicks...I don't think I've seen anyone take that route yet...


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Brian McQuain said:


> Lesnar was born in the wrong century...he shoulda been a viking. I think this will be Lesnar's first REAL fight. Should be fun. Lesnar v Fedor...I dont think Lesnar would have a snowballs chance in hell against Fedor. I'm curious how Lesnar's chicken legs would fair against some good kicks...I don't think I've seen anyone take that route yet...


Agree on all counts. The only thing I'd say is:

1) Lesnar vs. Fedor: I've got the biggest man-crush on Fedor and totally think he'd mop the floor with Lesnar. However, time's probably more on Lesnar's side than Fedor. If it ever does happen it'll probably be quite a ways into the future. Fedor's not getting any younger (the man's put in a fair number of fights), Lesnar is physically gifted and at least from what I've seen gotten quite a bit better. I mean, he beat Couture, and training with him now. If this ever happens outside of the fantasy realm, Lesnar might have quite a bit of time to hone his skills. That said, I'll still take Fedor, but it would probably be the biggest possible matchup in MMA at the moment (at least with the heavy weight types).

2) It'd be interesting to see how Lesnar progresses, what different tactics are used and possibly successful on him. Maybe Muay Thai leg kicks could slow him down, but who knows. I'm a bigger fan of Carwin just on a personal level, but I have to give props to Lesnar on the talent level and for belonging on some conqueror's ship swinging axes or trunks or something. It makes for compelling matches.

-Cheers


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Brian McQuain said:


> Lesnar was born in the wrong century...he shoulda been a viking.


He failed as a Viking.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> He failed as a Viking.


Nice one:lol:


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

I wish this fight would've happened before Lesnar got sick.

The outcome would've been the same, 1st round KO for Carwin, but at least you couldn't ever wonder, "What if?".


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Michael Wise said:


> I wish this fight would've happened before Lesnar got sick.
> 
> The outcome would've been the same, 1st round KO for Carwin, but at least you couldn't ever wonder, "What if?".


I hope you're right, but I don't know. I'm rooting for Carwin since Lesnar is an ass, but I think Lesnar has overall better athleticism. It'll be interesting to see how both react when they don't have a significant size advantage. 

Lesnar has Randy training, but Carwin has Greg Jackson. Obviously Randy is a legend, but no one coaches like Jackson. His game plans might be boring, but they work. I think if Carwin can keep it standing (he may not be as decorated a wrestler as Lesnar, but he's no slouch), he'll win. If he touches Lesnar, it's over. Brock can't say the same. He staggered Heath Herring in his debut, but didn't put him out. If Lesnar gets Carwin down, I think he'll grind out the decision.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Michael Swetz said:


> I hope you're right, but I don't know. I'm rooting for Carwin since Lesnar is an ass, but I think Lesnar has overall better athleticism. It'll be interesting to see how both react when they don't have a significant size advantage.
> 
> Lesnar has Randy training, but Carwin has Greg Jackson. Obviously Randy is a legend, but no one coaches like Jackson. His game plans might be boring, but they work. I think if Carwin can keep it standing (he may not be as decorated a wrestler as Lesnar, but he's no slouch), he'll win. If he touches Lesnar, it's over. Brock can't say the same. He staggered Heath Herring in his debut, but didn't put him out. If Lesnar gets Carwin down, I think he'll grind out the decision.


They'll be down before 2 minutes prolly better chance than not with in the first minute.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> He failed as a Viking.


 
BAHAHA! Nice! Forgot about that one. 

I too have a man crush on Fedor...did I say that out loud?...and I agree with the whole age issue, and originally had that in my first post. Lesnar is a freak, no doubt about it. He moves unlike any one I have ever seen or trained with at his size...hell, he's more agile then some middle weights out there. I dig the move he's done once or twice when it seems he's confused as to what to do, and resorts just charges the other guy and tackles him...friggin locomotive. Hilarious. As far as whom I like better between Lesnar and Carwin...I'm good with either.


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## John Wolf (Dec 12, 2009)

You all are forgetting Cain Velasquez. I have a good friend that fought him and was amazed at his strength. My buddy is no slouch, former UFC fighter and big ten wrestler.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lesnar is a perfect example of the need for a Super Heavywieght class. 
Others have more skill but his size and speed and strength are the reasons he's on top now. He's also someone I would put in the category of waiting for someone to figure him out and it's down hill from there.
Didn't Carwin give Fedor a pretty good run till the knockout? 
Fedor is awesome but I think Lesnar's size could null and void that.
I'll vote Carwin against Lesnar by ko........and it better be in the first round OR :lol: :lol:


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## John Wolf (Dec 12, 2009)

Bob,

Carwin is undefeated all knockouts in the first round. He did not fight Fedor. Carwin is huge also. Very similar to Lesnar just shorter and more compact. His gloves have to be custom made. Huge lunchbox hands. He was also a very good wrestler. It will be interesting to see where the fight takes place.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks John!
I saw a fight receintly on the HD channel and I was certain it was Carwin. My bad! :grin:


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Lesnar is a perfect example of the need for a Super Heavywieght class.
> Others have more skill but his size and speed and strength are the reasons he's on top now. He's also someone I would put in the category of waiting for someone to figure him out and it's down hill from there.


The reason I think Lesnar might be on top for a while is that he's this good now, I'm just imagining his training in various areas will only improve. I'm sure he trains like crazy, but the more he learns (offensively and defending) the more difficult it will be to touch him.



> Fedor is awesome but I think Lesnar's size could null and void that.


I know it's like apples and . . . well, I don't know what! But . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i0iZcLIrTQ

Based on that size by itself does not seem like it would null Fedor's skill and his mental sharpness given his history against some absolutely giant men, but it could be a factor combined with everything else.



> I'll vote Carwin against Lesnar by ko........and it better be in the first round OR :lol: :lol:


Maybe. I'm not comfortable placing large sums of money on either side of this one though.

-Cheers


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I think Lesnar's size is so effective because of his speed. Rarely seen in a heavy weight. Not sure if Fedor has ever seen anything like that.
Hong Man Choi is in no way compairable to Lesner. His ONLY attribute is size.
Of course anyone that weighs, what, 340 is gonna hurt you if he hits you but he's been knocked out once, caught with the arm bar and caught with an ankle lock.
Not a gambler here at all. A couple of bucks between my sons in law are the extent.....but I'm way a head of those two. The both let their "I don't like so and so". "I hope he gets his ass handed to him" get the best of them. :lol: 
Ya can't bet against someone just cause you don't like em. :wink:


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Can't wait for this fight!!!!! I really want Carwin to win because Brock is just sickly cocky with a bad attitude but his size, speed, and power are definately not to be messed with. I had tons of respect for fedor until he turned down the opportunity to fight with ufc it showed me he is obviously threatened by brock. crossing my fingers carwin, i want first round KO but i think its going to the ground and ending by submission


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Amanda Caldron said:


> I had tons of respect for fedor until he turned down the opportunity to fight with ufc it showed me he is obviously threatened by brock.


I believe it had nothing to do with that and everything to do with his disdain for Dana White and how he runs UFC. Really, Fedor's been around for a long time and has no need to go to UFC. HE is arguably the best fighter, he's outlasted Pride and been around for a LONG time, and he was IMO smart to not succumb to the crap Dana White's throwing and being able to fight on his own terms. He is rightfully considered the best and has nothing to prove to Brock. I can respect him not wanting to deal with Dana White and for supporting a different organization rather than being pressured to join UFC if he doesn't feel that is in his best interests or is the right organization to back at this point. At this point, I think he can play on his own terms, and if anything BROCK should be the one chasing Fedor if he wants to prove he's the best. It won't happen, but it kind of makes sense for the general consensus best fighter on the planet to not have to track down every up-and-comer.

Still, I have tons of respect for Fedor and think him vs. Brock would be a compelling match-up. I do not, however, have as much respect for Mr. White to be honest. I see what you are saying, but maybe view the situation with Fedor and UFC a bit differently.

-Cheers


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

David, great point made!!! I can definately agree to Brock should be chasing around every difficult opponent especially one like Fedor to prove himself. Would love to see that happen, maybe with a little more b.s. and hype he might just do it!!! Ima start hypin it up! who's in?? lol


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David, your comment makes perfect sense. 
There is no reason Fedor should have to 
track down anyone. In particular a 4-5 fight wonder.

What is the walk around weight for Lesnar and Carwin. 
Seems Lesnar is bigger naturally.
Can that mean that Lesnar has to work harder to get to fighting weight OR the natrually bigger man has the advantage? :-k


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm not on Fedor's promotional team or anything, but I'm hoping I can get to a bar or something in Menominee, WI with Showtime playing tomorrow for his fight. The guy just exudes class (not to mention skill):

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/06/...elianenko-talks-future-with-strikeforce-reti/



> Compare that to Lesnar:
> http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ys-mmaweek062310
> 
> On Tuesday, UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar proclaimed that he’s no fan of Fedor either. The reigning UFC heavyweight champ was asked during a media conference call if he planned on watching the upcoming Fedor fight this weekend as he takes on Fabricio Werdum. Lesnar appeared surprised at the question.
> ...


I know Lesnar is really, REALLY good, but that seems kinda arrogant. It sounds like Fedor is at least open to the possibility of a UFC contract after his Strikeforce contract expires. Yeah, I'd really love to see Fedor land a submission on Lesnar. Not that Fedor has anything to prove, but it would be sweet. Maybe even more so to see Dana White's face just since Lesnar seems like a longer-term fighter for the future of UFC, whereas Fedor seems closer to retirement than not.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> What is the walk around weight for Lesnar and Carwin.
> Seems Lesnar is bigger naturally.
> Can that mean that Lesnar has to work harder to get to fighting weight OR the natrually bigger man has the advantage? :-k


I _thought _Lesnar was a bit bigger, but he is only listed as one inch taller and one inch advantage over Carwin. It's Wikipedia though. Lesnar might carry more weight so it might be harder to get to fighting weight. I'm not an expert, but I would imagine it would depend on his staff. With proper diet and somebody helping him do it right I think Lesnar could cut weight fairly easily without losing much if any strength or muscle. Good question though. If Lesnar generally carries more weight, could cutting down before a fight help his speed and endurance? That would be scary. All I know is that it is generally a rule that it is easier to fight going down in weight classes than going up, so if I were a betting man I would bet the naturally bigger fighter has the advantage.

-Cheers


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Is it me or does David seem like he REALLY likes Brock????:-o


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Been digging up all Carwin's fights that are on youtube. 
It will be interesting how either handles the other from the bottom. 
First big punch either way will end it. 

Size is equal
Ground is lesnar
Punch is slightly Carwin
Speed is Lesnar
Tecnique is slightly Carwin
I'd have to give the edge to Lesnar......unless he takes a big hit early. :lol: 
How's that for a prediction!? ;-)


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Seems Lesnar is bigger *pharmaceutically*.


Fixed.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Michael Wise said:


> Fixed.



 :lol::lol::lol::lol: Not sure if he could get away with that (hopefully anyway) in UFC but no doubt as a pro wrestler! 

There have been a number of big named fighters in the UFC that have been in trouble for roids.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

John Wolf said:


> You all are forgetting Cain Velasquez. I have a good friend that fought him and was amazed at his strength. My buddy is no slouch, former UFC fighter and big ten wrestler.


I meant to address this earlier . . . I don't think it is as much forgetting about Cain, at least with me, so much as it is:

1) He is not fighting Lesnar or Carwin, yet. I would imagine his shot has to be coming soon, and at that point the spotlight will be squarely on him.

2) Personally, I am not as familiar with (or have become as familiar with) Cain. I'll make my way through watching his fights. What I HAVE seen is impressive. He seems very fluid from what I remember (only seen maybe a couple of his fights), and his record is obviously flawless. He DOES give up a bit of weight, however with his greater MMA experience he might be able to find some weaknesses of Lesnar (or whomever) and exploit it. Still, I am just not AS familiar with him so I can't really banter too much about him, but it's probably just more a matter of time until he's next in line for the title. At that point, I'll have probably dug up some videos on him and be more familiar with his body of work.

As an aside, it's interesting to note that he's got a pretty solid wrestling background, but all of his wins aside from a unanimous decision have been KO/TKO's from punches. I just imagine Brock in particular being most vulnerable to Judo or BJJ and finding holes in his technique to land a submission. Still, Cain being a solid wrestler, it would seem a good striker, and from reading he's adding BJJ to the mix, that could be an interesting matchup just to see what techniques he tries and if it turns into a striking match how things would go. I certainly would not underestimate him though.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

About Shane Carwin . . . How can you NOT root for the guy?

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/06/29/shane-carwin-one-of-us-will-need-help-leaving-the-octagon-at/



> *Brock has long been annoyed by the fact that, even though he holds the UFC belt, most fans still regard Fedor as the #1 heavyweight [ed. note: This interview was conducted two days before Fedor's loss to Fabricio Werdum]. What would it mean to you to become UFC heavyweight champ? Do you think the UFC champ is necessarily the overall MMA heavyweight champ?*
> 
> Well, Brock's MMA math is limited at best. Fedor is the best heavyweight and possibly one of the best fighters ever. He has been tested and proven over time that he is a real legend. That is my biggest issue with Brock. He likes to take away from others without knowing or thinking about what he is saying.
> 
> We may never know about how well Fedor would do in the UFC. We will have to just live with the fact that for the period of time he was fighting, he was one of, if not the best MMA fighters of his time. Guys like Brock and even myself could learn a lot from Fedor and his work ethics.


I just love that Carwin seems to be doing this for a love of fighting and the art of it, and not dwelling on self-promotion or the money, and seems genuine in learning and getting better. That and he still holds down a career as an engineer! It just seems like a blue-collar American story, eh? I'm hoping he is able to really do his best. I don't hate Brock, but I DO really like Carwin. He just seems very genuine and likable. Not that those qualities really make for the best fighter, but it DOES make it easier to be a fan.

-Cheers


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Carwin all the way....unless brock gets easy takedowns. Brock is a moster of a man, so if he gets Carwin on his back easy enough its all over. Stand up and Carwin knocks him out.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Carwin wrestled in college also but not division one. Many times that doesn't matter since division one guys lose to division 2 and 3 guys. It's still man vs man although competition at division one tends to bring quality all the time. Not taking anything away from a Ncaa champ but Carwin is no chump. It's also not typical wrestling once on the ground , yeah the basics but there usually looking for something more than basics which can sometimes be confusing for someone like Brock who is new to jujitsu. Sent from my phone sorry for spelling, this keyboard sucks


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

I am thinking Carwin is going to knock out Lesnar. Lesnar was hurt by Randy, who is not a knock out artist. Lesnar reminds me of Bob Sapp. Once Bob Sapp felt the power of some guys in K1, he quits fighting. Bob Sapp was huge when he first came into K1 and was winning some fights than some smaller guys with power stopped him in his track. 

I question Brock's heart. In dog terms, he will cur when he is in a real battle. 

I question Lesnar's endurance. With all his muscle mass, he want be able to go for long periods of time, especially punching and wrestling. 

I like Carwin's attitude and think this fight ends within 3 minutes of the first round with KO of Lesnar.

Dana White and Fedor:

Dana White knows that Fedor would wipe his heavyweight division out. If he really cared about a match up, he would just sign Fedor to a one fight deal with one his heavyweights without any stipulations. The problem is that when Fedor wipes the floor with one of his heavyweights then the UFC is discredited. Dana White is in the business of making money not matching great opponents.

If you have every done any fighting or grappling, I think it makes you really appreciate Fedor. His career is really amazing when you think of how many fights he has given up 30 pounds or more to people. He is an intelligent fighter with the heart to stay in a fight. 

Fedor reminds me of Joe Choynski. Joe was only about 160 -170 pounds and fought bare knuckled and gloved fights against heavy weights. He had beat Jack Johnson and knocked out a lot of guys. There are some great boxing books describing some of his fights. Guys would go 27 rounds in fights or longer sometimes. I grew up watching boxing with my Grandfather and really grew to love the combat sports. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Choynski 

http://www.hardcoreboxing.net/GSmith2222005.htm



UFC Fight that I would like to see:

I would love to see Shogun Rua fight Anderson Silva. I was really impressed with how Shogun handled Machida.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jack Roberts said:


> I am thinking Carwin is going to knock out Lesnar. Lesnar was hurt by Randy, who is not a knock out artist. Lesnar reminds me of Bob Sapp. Once Bob Sapp felt the power of some guys in K1, he quits fighting. Bob Sapp was huge when he first came into K1 and was winning some fights than some smaller guys with power stopped him in his track.


I would honestly not be surprised if Carwin knocks him out. I do not know if he's a Bob Sapp type, he does have a legit wresting (not the WWF variety) background. Bob Sapp was just a huge beast. There's a difference between the huge bodybuilder-types and the strongman types, or just guys that are tough and will gut it out.



> I question Brock's heart. In dog terms, he will cur when he is in a real battle.
> 
> I question Lesnar's endurance. With all his muscle mass, he want be able to go for long periods of time, especially punching and wrestling.


I think those are legit factors.



> I like Carwin's attitude and think this fight ends within 3 minutes of the first round with KO of Lesnar.


I LOVE Carwin's attitude and what I have seen of his work ethic. I like Ali as much as anyone, and I even kinda like the trash talking of Mayweather (in Floyd Jr.'s case, he's earned it, and I guess I see it as being a character and kind of having fun while having a mouth), but I much prefer athletes like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Marvin Hagler, Fedor, and yes, Shane Carwin. Lesnar just seems a bit too disrespectful and I don't know if it's arrogant or what.

I like Carwin. I REALLY like the guy and his personality and perspective.



> Dana White and Fedor:
> 
> Dana White knows that Fedor would wipe his heavyweight division out. If he really cared about a match up, he would just sign Fedor to a one fight deal with one his heavyweights without any stipulations. The problem is that when Fedor wipes the floor with one of his heavyweights then the UFC is discredited. Dana White is in the business of making money not matching great opponents.


Dana White is full of BS. He loves the business, he does not love the sport.

Fedor would probably mop the floor with any of the UFC fighters. Even if he lost, he is still one of the greats who has beaten quite a few of the people now employed by Dana White.

I think Dana White cannot acknowledge how great Fedor is, maybe not even to himself. It means that THE BEST fighter in the world (o.k., he got sloppy and lost ONE fight, maybe he's not only one of the best EVER) is fighting for Strike Force, or ANYBODY that is not UFC. I think his brain would implode if he had to actually face the fact that possibly the best MMA artist in the world was somebody he did not employ? It also means there is a great fighter that White cannot control.

Now that Fedor's lost, the hype has to take a dive and it gives White a chance to hype his product while trying (arguably unsuccessfully) to diminish the incredible body of work Fedor has.

Remember, this is the guy who hyped Kimbo Slice. AND pushed Lesnar to the front of the line for a title fight after THREE fights, one of which was a loss.

This is all posturing. White does not want to have to deal with an undefeated fighter in his organization's main rival company who is acclaimed as one of the best ever, and he probably does not want to deal with the questions and backtracking if he signed Fedor and then Fedor proceeded to dominate the UFC. Too many would remind him of past comments made where he bashed Fedor. However, if he could sign Fedor (I doubt he could) and it would be a big money draw (I believe it would be huge), he'd do it. I have no respect for White, even if he is good at pushing his brand.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

I do get a bit of a smile thinking of what White's face might look like if Lesnar actually loses tomorrow. Particularly to the ultra-humble Shane Carwin. It is obvious White sees Lesnar as his big draw because of how huge and outspoken a heel Lesnar is. Will White be there at the fight? Are they going to have the camera on him? He might pop an aneurysm if Lesnar actually lost.

-Cheers


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I think Lesnar vs is Carwin is far far better then either of them ever fighting Fedor. Fedor lost his last fight. I don't think he will ever fight either Carwin or Lesnar, frankly I could care less anymore. New crop of fighters to focus on. As much as I liked Liddell, Couture, Fedor etc they are all past their prime semi-retired or retired. They can move on too being trainers or some other aspect of the fighting business.. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/414667-questions-arise-in-ranking-top-mma-heavyweights


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Ben Thompson said:


> I think Lesnar vs is Carwin is far far better then either of them ever fighting Fedor. *Fedor lost his last fight.*


With all due respect, do what? It was his first legitimate loss. EVER! After fighting dozens more fights than Carwin, much less Lesnar, and he's only 33. Take a gander at how old Lesnar and Carwin are.



> I don't think he will ever fight either Carwin or Lesnar, frankly I could care less anymore. *New crop of fighters to focus on. As much as I liked Liddell, Couture, Fedor etc they are all past their prime semi-retired or retired. They can move on too being trainers or some other aspect of the fighting business.. *http://bleacherreport.com/articles/414667-questions-arise-in-ranking-top-mma-heavyweights


George Foreman won the WBA Heavyweight title & IBF Heavyweight title in 1994 two full decades after losing it to Ali. Which is neither here nor there except, if they are still feeling good and winning their fights, why shouldn't they? Liddell physically should just quit. Couture, yes, he's slowing down, but he DID just compete for the UFC Heavyweight title not long ago.

Fedor though . . . That was his first legit loss in MMA. Period. It's hard to say he's past his prime because, well, he still looks pretty good. It is even harder to say Lesnar or Carwin are far, far better than him. But we're all entitled to our opinion. Maybe he'd go against Lesnar or Carwin or Mir or Cain or whomever and get smoked. I doubt it, but maybe. We'd actually have to see that though. Fedor is still flat-out good. He got into trouble against Rodgers, but was smart and seemed patient & calculating enough to get out of it and then won the fight. He lost his one-and-only losing fight because he got careless against a pretty highly-regarded BJJ guy.

Eh, I say Fedor can still keep fighting if he physically feels good enough to. I hardly think he is past his prime, and definitely think it is far from a sure thing. Using the Foreman analogy, people can fight when they are older and still be great. Sure, Foreman is an extreme exception, but I am not ready to write off Fedor. There are some great newer fighters too, so I'm not just singling out Fedor for my fanboyish devotions. He's arguably my favorite, but there are some others that I enjoy watching and others I'm interested in seeing more from.

-Cheers


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Well, Carwin just did an interview about a month ago saying that he was not ready for Fedor yet. It speaks volumes that a lot of UFC fighter agree that Fedor is the best in the world.

I do not know why people find it hard to accept the fact that Fedor is the dominant force in MMA. I think it may be with his build and his demeanor. One thing I know is that he takes the fight out of a lot of people. It seems like after they loose that the fighters are never the same. He broke Crocop in their fight. People seem to forget Crocop use to be a tough hard hitting fighter. He was doing well until he fought Fedor. His career pretty much went down after fighting Fedor. 

I would like to see Fedor fight a couple of more years myself. He is a good technical fighter.

I would like to see more of the old Pride rules implemented in the UFC. I like the knees to a down opponent and the soccer kicks. It would keep a lot of people from turtling up on the ground.


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

Jack Roberts said:


> Well, Carwin just did an interview about a month ago saying that he was not ready for Fedor yet. It speaks volumes that a lot of UFC fighter agree that Fedor is the best in the world.
> 
> I do not know why people find it hard to accept the fact that Fedor is the dominant force in MMA. I think it may be with his build and his demeanor. One thing I know is that he takes the fight out of a lot of people. It seems like after they loose that the fighters are never the same. He broke Crocop in their fight. People seem to forget Crocop use to be a tough hard hitting fighter. He was doing well until he fought Fedor. His career pretty much went down after fighting Fedor.
> 
> ...


I think fedor is pretty bad & WAS the greatest. Since 2006 who has he fought thats a top contender? Brett rogers? #-o Tim Sylvia :-\" & my personal fav fighter Andre Arlovski ](*,)
ok lets go back another year. 2005 Mark Colman was decent. Cro cop WAS decent.
his last good opponent was Nogueria in Dec. 2004
I said WAS the greatest but the last fight has nothing to do with his not being there anymore. he hasn't been there for a couple years.

theres a reason he didnt come to the UFC. Lesner, Carwin, Dos Santos, Cain Velasquez, Mir, & Nogueria is back there. Had nothing to do with money. had to do with skating through easy fights. :mrgreen:


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

jeremy anderson said:


> I think fedor is pretty bad & WAS the greatest. Since 2006 who has he fought thats a top contender? Brett rogers? #-o Tim Sylvia :-\" & my personal fav fighter Andre Arlovski ](*,)
> ok lets go back another year. 2005 Mark Colman was decent. Cro cop WAS decent.
> his last good opponent was Nogueria in Dec. 2004
> I said WAS the greatest but the last fight has nothing to do with his not being there anymore. he hasn't been there for a couple years.
> ...


Oh, if only there was an article addressing this very issue . . . 
http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/07/02/dana-white-fedor-emelianenko-and-mmas-revisionist-history/

And if you think the reason (or, for the sake of argument, the ONLY reason) Fedor didn't sign with UFC was to skate through "easy fights", I'd recommend a revisit with Couture's record and disputes with UFC, Dana White, and trying to get OUT of UFC. Dana White is the Don King of MMA. He is the benefactor of the most popular MMA organization, true, but that does not mean he is a great guy to work for (nor the only guy whose organization has good fighters).

-Cheers


----------



## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

David Ruby said:


> Oh, if only there was an article addressing this very issue . . .
> http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/07/02/dana-white-fedor-emelianenko-and-mmas-revisionist-history/
> 
> And if you think the reason (or, for the sake of argument, the ONLY reason) Fedor didn't sign with UFC was to skate through "easy fights", I'd recommend a revisit with Couture's record and disputes with UFC, Dana White, and trying to get OUT of UFC. Dana White is the Don King of MMA. He is the benefactor of the most popular MMA organization, true, but that does not mean he is a great guy to work for (nor the only guy whose organization has good fighters).
> ...


dana white is a douche. 
Who has Fedor fought thats rank in the top 10 heavyweights in the last 3-4 yrs.
Andre Arlovski is my favorite fighter & he USED to be bad ass. Hopefully he will again but I doubt it with his new chin.
Fedor used to be bad & MIGHT be the best. but with his last 7-8 fights you cant tell because he wasnt fighting the top fighters.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Another day at the office. Carwin, first round as usual.


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> Another day at the office. Carwin, first round as usual.


I think if Lesner can't get carwin on the ground Carwin has a very good chance of knocking him out fast. 
If Lesner gets him on the ground I think Brock will win.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

jeremy anderson said:


> dana white is a douche.


Yeah, he kinda is, isn't he?



> Who has Fedor fought thats rank in the top 10 heavyweights in the last 3-4 yrs.
> Andre Arlovski is my favorite fighter & he USED to be bad ass. Hopefully he will again but I doubt it with his new chin.
> Fedor used to be bad & MIGHT be the best. but with his last 7-8 fights you cant tell because he wasnt fighting the top fighters.


Top 10 heavyweights in the last five years? Probably nobody. I mean, Tim Sylvia is a living legend (I mean, just ask him ), Coleman was past his prime from my understanding but still good enough to later go on to the UFC, CroCop was still pretty good back then and similarly went to UFC.

I will grant you that point. Still, look overall at how he's done. Rogers is, I thought, better than you and others are giving him credit for. Of course after the Overeem incident. Fedor actually got caught pretty well from Rogers, who had looked promising, but Fedor was smart and technical enough to get out, then win with a nice punch. Before the Overeem fight Rogers was at least respectable. Arlovski left UFC on a winning streak that only ended when he met Fedor, but he's still considered pretty good, right? I mean before Fedor, he had from my understanding only lost two fights (both to Tim "Legend in his own mind" Sylvia in 2006, and hadn't lost a fight prior to THAT since 2002.

I see what you are saying, I'll admit Fedor has not faced the best MMA fighters lately (does taking winning the gold in whatever ***** Championships most years count for anything?), but he was STILL undefeated, lost in a bit of a not fluke but bit of carelessness, and has faced every fighter he could up to now with the caveat that he did not go to UFC. He has dodged nobody, looked great until making a bit of a bonehead rookie-type mistake the last fight, and could easily be given the benefit of a doubt for not going to the UFC after the gripes other top fighters have had with Dana White and DW's douchiness resulting in publicly trashing Fedor, even now saying he's not so great after not too long ago (in Dana White's own words) "obsessing" over signing him. I'll also take other top fighters (not named Brock) at their word that still say Fedor is great.

If you think Carwin & Lesnar are better, particularly on the heels of Fedor's loss and the UFC having better talent at the top, I can't really argue that train of thought. I just do not think Fedor is washed up and is better than his critics want to admit.

But hey, at least we can all agree on one thing. Dana White is a douche.

-Cheers


----------



## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

David Ruby said:


> Yeah, he kinda is, isn't he?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes hes a big douche. like statue of liberty (4th theme) sized douche. Fedor is a legend. 
Next one to watch for is Cain Valasquez.


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

I think the problem with Brock is he still thinks hes playing the part of a heel in the WWE. Too much trash talking and too much abusing the crowd. I remember after one of his fights when the crowd was booing him he said something to the effect that they could boo him but he was gonna go home and nail his wife. 
I think Fedor is still the top heavyweight. He didnt get smashed in his loss to Werdun, he got trapped. He had knocked down and hurt Werdun and then just jumped into his guard and got caught in a triangle. So for me it doesnt really go against him in my books. The reality is that the rematch is gonna be huge, might even outrate Lesner and Carwin.....


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

One more day and we get to see these 2 beast go at it.

This has to be one of the more exciting title fights in the UFC in a little while.

I didn't read every post in this thread, so if it has been mentioned, sorry.

How 'bout Leben taking this fight freakin' 2 WEEKS AFTER HIS LAST FIGHT!!! He can be the biggest douche of them all, but I think taking this fight so soon is making me a fan.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Who else thinks that Lesnar is getting KO in the first round?

I do not see this going past the first round, unless Lesnar lays on Carwin. Although, I doubt Lesnar will be able to hold down Carwin. They are both wrestlers, so it is almost evenly matched on the ground. 

Has Carwin every took a hard shot? I have seen about 5 of his fights but usually they do not go too long. I do not remember him getting hit hard in these fights.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jack Roberts said:


> Who else thinks that Lesnar is getting KO in the first round?


Man, it just seems like it could just happen that way. I do not think Lesnar has gone against a really good striker, and this seems like the closest in size & strength he's had. That said, Lesnar is still a very physical guy. I also think it could be telling that he's training with Couture; not just that he's training with Randy, but what it implies about him training to get better. Love him or hate him, Lesnar could just be really, really good. I guess that's why they play the game.

I don't know. It could go either way. I would not be _that_ surprised by Carwin knocking Lesnar out in the first though, not much at all.

-Cheers


----------



## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

Jack Roberts said:


> Has Carwin every took a hard shot? I have seen about 5 of his fights but usually they do not go too long. I do not remember him getting hit hard in these fights.


 http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Gabriel_Gonzaga_vs_Shane_Carwin_UFC_96?vid=10003729

Gonzaga hit him pretty hard.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I think it all boils down to someone that has the ability to test Lesnar. "HEART"! I don't see it if Carwin stays on his feet. 
As far as age goes Foreman's comeback wasn't all the suprising. 
The first think a fighter looses is speed and timing. The last is power. Foreman was always about power. He still had that in his return.
Speed and timing fighter? Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Lenard were noted for speed and timing. They were magical to watch but neither had any real success in a comeback.
Larry Holmes was another fighter with speed and timing. He was another sad case in his later yrs.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

jeremy anderson said:


> I think if Lesner can't get carwin on the ground Carwin has a very good chance of knocking him out fast.
> If Lesner gets him on the ground I think Brock will win.


Even though Carwin is my favorite fighter besides Liddell (who needs to retire IMHO) I have to agree with you. However I think Carwin will be MUCH harder to keep down. Your right, Brock will want to G an P early, if its stand up its over Carwin wins.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Michael Wise said:


> http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Gabriel_Gonzaga_vs_Shane_Carwin_UFC_96?vid=10003729
> 
> Gonzaga hit him pretty hard.



Thanks for the video link.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Before I cough up the 50 bucks any one got a linky


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Before I cough up the 50 bucks any one got a linky


I'll have a copy tomorrow! But not live..


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

My home boy!!!


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Alright, Brock's legit.

-Cheers


----------



## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Lesnar wins, my boy Carwin just about put him away, but Brock is a bad mf.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> Lesnar wins, my boy Carwin just about put him away, but Brock is a bad mf.


"Carwin just about put him away" Did he? I don't know about that


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Mike Scheiber said:


> "Carwin just about put him away" Did he? I don't know about that


Hell yeah, if it was anybody else the ref would have called. Brock was covering up like a lil b**** for over 2 min almost. Like I said Brock is a bad mf, he did the job. Carwin was spent.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I was rooting for Carwin but I certainly didn't want to see it stopped in the first. Championship fights are just that. let em fight.
My thoughts on the whole thing (most of our thoughts) was how Carwin could handle Lesnar from the ground (bottom). 
Standing up and on top Carwin showed his metal......BUT! 
Over all it was a great card. 
I was most impressed with Chris Liebman. He's come from being a wild and "CRAZY" street fighter to a good (still crazy) MMA fighter. 
He still needs to keep from winning fights by leading with his chin, no matter how tough it is.


----------



## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> I was rooting for Carwin but I certainly didn't want to see it stopped in the first. Championship fights are just that. let em fight.
> My thoughts on the whole thing (most of our thoughts) was how Carwin could handle Lesnar from the ground (bottom).
> Standing up and on top Carwin showed his metal......BUT!
> Over all it was a great card.
> ...


I agree, though I don't want to lol. I just hate how it ended. However. That's brocks style a win is a win, just wished Carwin hadn't used all the energy by Brock just laying there covering up. The next HW FIGHT should be good also with Cain. Yeah Leben is a tough dude!


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Cain V is another big, tough guy but I can't see anyone (after tonight) being able to handle Lesnar on top in a ground game.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Cain V is another big, tough guy but I can't see anyone (after tonight) being able to handle Lesnar on top in a ground game.


Yeah I agree, Brock can take heavy hits, plus if he gets on top forget about it!


----------



## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

Didn't see that on coming! Whooda thunk that fight would end in a submission? Don't like Lesnar, but have to agree that he is the real deal.

The only person alive that *can* beat him is still Carwin, but he's gonna have to get some wind in his lungs. Lesnar is a freak of an athlete.

Tonight, I'm a Leben fan.


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Michael Wise said:


> Didn't see that on coming! Whooda thunk that fight would end in a submission? Don't like Lesnar, but have to agree that he is the real deal.
> 
> The only person alive that *can* beat him is still Carwin, but he's gonna have to get some wind in his lungs. Lesnar is a freak of an athlete.
> 
> Tonight, I'm a Leben fan.



Carwin needs more than wind in his lungs. He didn't show a ground game at all.


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> Carwin needs more than wind in his lungs. He didn't show a ground game at all.


 
I think Ref. Actually ****ed Carwin....I counted over 50 punches to Lesnar that went unanswered....he did not even try to move....So when do we call fights? after how many unanswered punches with no attempt to stop them? 50, 60, 70....80 is a good number. Maybe when Lesnar has permant brain damage that's a good time to stop him.

Carwin did what he should of...attacked and not let up. He could have let him up...but why? when he has him hurt and he his landing punches? I think Lesnar got a huge gift.


----------



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

James Downey said:


> I think Ref. Actually ****ed Carwin....I counted over 50 punches to Lesnar that went unanswered....he did not even try to move....So when do we call fights? after how many unanswered punches with no attempt to stop them? 50, 60, 70....80 is a good number. Maybe when Lesnar has permant brain damage that's a good time to stop him.
> 
> Carwin did what he should of...attacked and not let up. He could have let him up...but why? when he has him hurt and he his landing punches? I think Lesnar got a huge gift.


Agreed!!!

Forget the fact that the ref prob had pressure to let the fight continue until someone was near dead, but where is the consistency?? Lesnar couldn't even protect himself for a full minute +/-, if it where any other fight it would have been stopped way long before it did in this fight.

I feel this fight was given to lesnar... friggen retarded.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Lesnar took the punishment. You hope that Carwin learns to pace himself. He could have just looked for shots and taken a good shot when he saw it. He had a couple of good elbows when he was focusing on hitting Lesnar on the ground. 

You could see when Carwin came out in the second round that he was already gassed. The problem with big muscled up guys is endurance. Lesnar showed some weakness tonight. It looks like he needs the weight advantage to win but when evenly weighted, he has more problems. 

I think Overeem could take Lesnar, perhaps we will get to see the fight one day. If Carwin would have been in longer fights, this fight would have gone different. I would take Carwin in a rematch, especially if he learns his lessons from this fight.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Meng Xiong said:


> Agreed!!!
> 
> Forget the fact that the ref prob had pressure to let the fight continue until someone was near dead, but where is the consistency?? Lesnar couldn't even protect himself for a full minute +/-, if it where any other fight it would have been stopped way long before it did in this fight.
> 
> I feel this fight was given to lesnar... friggen retarded.


Why would you stop the fight when Lesnar is laughing and calling Carwin a pussy wile he is getting pummeled didn't you take off your blinders wile you watched, at what point was Lesner in trouble after Carwin unloaded every thing he had Lesenar even said in the post interview he could feel his punching power diminish with each blow. Lesnar simply stood up.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Why would you stop the fight when Lesnar is laughing and calling Carwin a pussy wile he is getting pummeled didn't you take off your blinders wile you watched, at what point was Lesner in trouble after Carwin unloaded every thing he had Lesenar even said in the post interview he could feel his punching power diminish with each blow. Lesnar simply stood up.


I disagree, the left hook rock the hell out of Lesnar. I can see both sides. I'm a huge Carwin fan because of his personality and his fighting. I believe Dana would not have liked Carwin winning anyway. To much draw for lesnar. Plus he got a title shot in like his 4th fight ever. That's insane. But all in all its a business first and foremost and thats just it.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Meng Xiong said:


> Agreed!!!
> 
> Forget the fact that the ref prob had pressure to let the fight continue until someone was near dead, but where is the consistency?? Lesnar couldn't even protect himself for a full minute +/-, if it where any other fight it would have been stopped way long before it did in this fight.
> 
> I feel this fight was given to lesnar... friggen retarded.


I am not ready to say the ref was told not to stop the fight. However, it seems obvious there was pressure to make absolutely sure it's time to stop the fight. Should it have been stopped . . . Total judgment call, and it was going to be close either way from what I saw. Brock got hit but Carwin also got a lot of punches blocked and should have really been more opportunistic to pace himself (which is a LOT easier for me to say from my computer as opposed to the heavyweight title virtually in your hands and swinging for the fences).

On the other end, nothing was give to Lesnar. He took a total beating, came back, and won it. He still had to get up, compose himself in the break, and take out the guy who used him for a punching bag. I think it is wrong to take anything away from him. Sure, the fight COULD have been stopped. It wasn't. Lesnar still had to make Carwin submit. I'm just saying it is unfair to say anything was given to anybody, and the incumbent title fighter will usually get the benefit of a doubt from what I've seen in title matches.



Mike Scheiber said:


> Why would you stop the fight when *Lesnar is laughing and calling Carwin a pussy wile he is getting pummeled* didn't you take off your blinders wile you watched, at what point was Lesner in trouble after Carwin unloaded every thing he had Lesenar even said in the post interview he could feel his punching power diminish with each blow. Lesnar simply stood up.


You want to rethink that after watching this, maybe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZcnCPXK46M

Lesnar did not know where he was, thought the fight was going to get called, and seemed pretty complimentary about Shane and realized he almost lost it. Even if the punching power diminished, he still took a lot of damage and wasn't exactly able to stop it from happening, and a bit more cautious approach by Carwin and he might have had more oomph on some of the punches that landed.

Lesnar showed a lot of guts, and seems like he is going to be pretty hard to stop. This is where I think Fedor would have an advantage in that I think he would have a much better ground game than Carwin. It seems like it is going to take somebody who is big enough to sort of keep Lesnar from just getting on top and controlling the match, and then either somebody who can hit harder or outmaneuver Lesnar, or the more likely solution to me would be somebody whose ground game of Jujitsu is good enough to find and exploit weaknesses in Brock's defenses to get a submission or choke him out. The problem is, how many guys are big enough to fight him AND that strong and talented enough to make a run at him?

I will say, if Lesnar was anywhere near as humble or grounded as he is in the video above, I would have very little problem with him. Maybe his persona is a residual effect from being a heel in the WWE or something, but I think fans WANT to like him. He is very physically gifted, he seems to be improving his technique, and I think is only going to get more dangerous as he learns more and gets more well-rounded. It might be a problem to find a steady string of legit fighters to put in front of him if he beats Cain and keeps getting better. He is still human and was obviously vulnerable to Carwin's striking, yet he gutted it out, is getting, and just physically has a LOT to contend with. A rematch would be interesting, as I think both guys will be smarter if/when they fight again.

I have to admit, Brock shut up all of my criticisms, period, and right now he's got to be considered the best.

-Cheers


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Just saw 116 tonight, and what a great card. Good to see Aussie George win again, and some great other fights. 
After the main event I have respect for both Lesner and Carwin. Both were humble, and this is the best after fight attitude I have seen from Lesner.
I wanted Carwin to win, just because he is such a respectful dude. I am however glad the ref didnt stop the fight. I am glad there can be no question about if Lesner was hurt too much to continue, and in hidsight it would have been stopped too soon if it had of been stopped. 
But I already respected Carwin, and now Lesner has come up in my mind. I dont know exactly what he has personally had to deal with in his private life, but maybe he is a changed guy. 
But he is a tough mofo, and I cant wait for Cain v's Brock.


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

jeremy anderson said:


> I think if Lesner can't get carwin on the ground Carwin has a very good chance of knocking him out fast.
> If Lesner gets him on the ground I think Brock will win.


:-\" :mrgreen:


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

jeremy anderson said:


> I think if Lesner can't get carwin on the ground Carwin has a very good chance of knocking him out fast.
> If Lesner gets him on the ground I think Brock will win.


Good call


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

David Ruby said:


> He is very physically gifted, he seems to be improving his technique, and I think is only going to get more dangerous as he learns more and gets more well-rounded. It might be a problem to find a steady string of legit fighters to put in front of him if he beats Cain and keeps getting better. He is still human and was obviously vulnerable to Carwin's striking, yet he gutted it out, is getting, and just physically has a LOT to contend with.


So, can we assume that having the right genetics can take you a bit further than the experience and training combined?


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> So, can we assume that having the right genetics can take you a bit further than the experience and training combined?


It certainly couldn't hurt.

Still, I would not _necessarily_ assume that. Somebody who's amazing due to lots of great training & experience can overcome a lot of physical advantages. Hence you have Lesnar losing to Mir in their first fight. Or athletes that aren't the most genetically gifted in their field, ala. Walter Payton (still pretty gifted, but not the most physically gifted NFL running back) who busted his butt to become one of the best ever.

But yeah, great genetics will go a long way, particularly if you have great genetics AND bust your butt and keep getting better. I think that might be the case with Lesnar. Genetically, incredible with a lot to work with. That helps. He seems to be learning and evolving. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just saying that it takes both nature AND nurture. It looks like Brock has both the genes and the willingness to apply them and keep getting better. If your point is that we can assume with great genetics and a great work ethic you can go further, then yeah. I can bring up the Chuck Wepners of the world, but those are exceptions and even my Walter Payton analogy is kind of flawed because, even if he wasn't Jim Brown physically, he was still pretty tough and you could argue his work ethic, endurance, and just ability to gut it out were genetics at least on some level.

So yeah, Brock could end up being something special if things keep going this way in large part due to his genetics.

-Cheers


----------



## Jake Brandyberry (Jan 24, 2010)

This was an amazing fight and it answered a lot of questions about both fighters. For Brock, there were questions about his chin and about his physical well being after all his health issues. Besides the one shot he took from Couture, he his chin really had not been tested. Brock got rocked by Carwin, a guy who had stopped everyone else he faced with essentially one shot, but still held up to getting wailed on while on the ground. I can see where you might be pissed the fight was not stopped, but if you look closely at all the shots Carwin was throwing on the ground, all but 7 were blocked and absorbed. Think about how many times a ref has stopped a fight when they shouldn't have and how pissed the crowd and fans have been. It looked violent, but Brock was able to keep the big shots off of him and whenever Carwin let up, he made some attempt to push him off and get up. Hard to question his chin after all of that.

Physically, Brock is a beast. He has gone multiple rounds several times in his fights and the fact that he came back from the brink of not being able to fight again and is now in better shape than before is quite amazing. 

In regards to Carwin, all of the questions of what would happen if he did not finish a guy with one punch were confirmed. Carwin is going to have to go back and retool his training now that he found out there is someone who can take his shots and last. It will be interesting to see if he sacrifices some of his power to be able to go longer. The problem is, he will have to adjust all of his training for only one fighter, and that is Brock. There is no one else who has the size and chin of Brock. It is kinda like what happened to Rich Franklin. The guy is the best 185 lb fighter, except Anderson Silva. I can see Carwin and Brock fighting several more times, but it is hard to see a different outcome.

It was also nice to see a different reaction from Brock after the fight. Either due to his life changing illness or Dana jumping up his ass after the last fight, a humble and thankful Brock was a nice change of pace. Personally, I could care less how he acts and even kinda like his FU attitude towards everyone, but now maybe people can get past all his BS and see that he really is a freak of an athlete and fighter. And did anyone else notice that Cain looking terrified after Brock won the fight and they said he was next in line. I will lay good money down right now that Cain will get destroyed in the first round in that fight.

Now the only question is how big of a pansy is Anderson Silva gonna be in his fight against Sonnen at 117.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Daryl Ehret said:


> So, can we assume that having the right genetics can take you a bit further than the experience and training combined?


Geneticsmy ass. Brocks face has steroids written all over it. The protruding occipital lobes, the chin. The boy looks like a neandrothol for a reason and I doubt, looking at his background, it is all due to genetics.

Not taking anything away from him because I like him and his attitude. He is th fastest big heavy I have seen which is going to be a problem for most in the weight class. 

I am only pointing this out because looking at his facial features....it isn't genetics I see.


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> Carwin all the way....unless brock gets easy takedowns. Brock is a moster of a man, so if he gets Carwin on his back easy enough its all over. Stand up and Carwin knocks him out.


I'll just take the word "out" and swap it with "down", and its fixed lol.


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

decent interview with Brock and the minneapolis sports station from this morning

http://www.kfan.com/cc-common/media...fan.com&SITE_ID=612&STATION_ID=KFAN-AM&TRACK=


I've listen to other interviews with him in the past where he was much more articulate. He sounds concussed in this interview.


----------



## steven sheridan (Sep 21, 2009)

Carwin got screwed! End of story...


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

steven sheridan said:


> Carwin got screwed! End of story...



Brock clearly expect the fight to be stopped otherwsie he would have been thanking the ref.


----------



## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Carwin clearly should have pulled guard in the second round. He was gassed and should have used some BJJ to regain his strength. It was Lesnar's amazing half guard reversal and side choke that won the fight. Another victory for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

One of the interesting things about taking that much damage this time, is next time it is not going to take as much to knock him out. If he takes damage like that multiple times, he will get the glass jaw. 

Back to the WWE then. LOL


----------



## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

No one wants to give it to Lesnar. He had a year off do to injury, get better every time and out lasted the storm in the first round. He looks better every time he fights. And for being 265 ish he moves fast.


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> One of the interesting things about taking that much damage this time, is next time it is not going to take as much to knock him out. If he takes damage like that multiple times, he will get the glass jaw.


Yeah, I think that is a legitimate point. However, doesn't his style generally kind of protect him from that? He does not generally stand up and trade punches, and I think this is the first time he was ever on his back taking huge shots from above. I think his wrestling background helps act as a buffer just since his inclination seems to be to get close, preferably get on top, and avoid taking a lot of clean head-shots. From what I've seen of Chuck Liddell what you're describing seems to be what happened, but he also seems more of a stand-up fighter. That and those MMA gloves don't have all that much cushion.

It very well _could_ end up being his Achilles Heel, but I am not sure how many people can really exploit it. Carwin seems like the only guy who matches up that close physically in the UFC that I am aware of just as far as the frame and size, Carwin's noted for being particularly heavy-handed so right now I'm not sure who would be able to do the same. Lesnar's reach and seeming propensity to bull-rush and take the other guy down will likely prevent a lot of guys the chance to be able to have a lot of shots at punching him out. Not that it isn't possible, it obviously is, but Carwin seems like the guy with perhaps the best chance to do so.

But we'll see who he gets matched up with (sounds like he's going against Cain next then maybe Carwin again) and how he plans to avoid taking that kind of beating again from whomever.

-Cheers


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

David, it is easier to take a clean shot bare knuckled than it is from a 16 oz boxing glove. Gloves jar your whole head to where your not sure where you are for a few moments even if they aren't on the button. With a fist it is more localized and might cut you but it doesn't have the tendency to addle your brain unless it is on the button. At least that is my experience. LOL


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> David, it is easier to take a clean shot bare knuckled than it is from a 16 oz boxing glove. Gloves jar your whole head to where your not sure where you are for a few moments even if they aren't on the button. With a fist it is more localized and might cut you but it doesn't have the tendency to addle your brain unless it is on the button. At least that is my experience. LOL


Which is more damaging long-term though? I've tried to avoid taking too many head shots. 

Bare-knuckled, or those 4 to 6 oz. (I believe) MMA gloves just seem like they'd cause more damage long-term since they wouldn't distribute the impact as much (smaller, more concise area) as the bigger boxing gloves. Even though larger gloves add more weight there is some cushion which I thought protected the hands of the puncher and the body of the punchee to some extent. Even if a punch from a larger glove is more disorientating, I thought they still ended up being relatively safer than the smaller gloves, or a bare-fisted punch. I could be wrong though (not like it'd be the first time).

-Cheers


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

I always heard the MMA gloves are better because the fights end sooner with punches. It is also much easier to knock someone out with MMA gloves because of less padding.

Don makes a good point about the boxing gloves. How many concussions do you see in MMA compared to boxing? Boxing has a lot more punch drunk fighters than MMA, not to mention longer rounds and more punishment being absorbed by the boxers than MMA fighters. An MMA fighter gets tagged with a good hit, they are going down. 

Chuck Liddel was a kickboxer first and more than likely sustained a lot of his damage from when he was kickboxing. It does not help that he keeps climbing back in the cage. It does seem like once someone is knocked out it is easier for them to be knocked out again. I always cringe at the abuse Norgureia has taken in his career.

The padded boxing gloves allow a person to be hit many more times, not to mention that the boxing gloves are bigger so the hit is spread out more. If you think about it from a physics perspective, the force of impact is spread out over the head more with a boxing glove due to the size of the glove itself. 

Damage to the brain is done by the brain hitting against the sides of the skull.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jack Roberts said:


> I always heard the MMA gloves are better because the fights end sooner with punches. It is also much easier to knock someone out with MMA gloves because of less padding.
> 
> Don makes a good point about the boxing gloves. How many concussions do you see in MMA compared to boxing? Boxing has a lot more punch drunk fighters than MMA, not to mention longer rounds and more punishment being absorbed by the boxers than MMA fighters. An MMA fighter gets tagged with a good hit, they are going down.


Touche'. It might be hard to tell about concussions/punch-drunk fighters in MMA vs. Boxing just because MMA is still a lot newer, and I am not sure whether or not there has been research done on that to be honest. But yeah, that does make sense.



> Chuck Liddel was a kickboxer first and more than likely sustained a lot of his damage from when he was kickboxing. It does not help that he keeps climbing back in the cage. * It does seem like once someone is knocked out it is easier for them to be knocked out again.* I always cringe at the abuse Norgureia has taken in his career.


I believe that is kind of similar to NFL players that get concussions and then afterward it's much, MUCH more likely that they'll get repeat concussions. Kind of a downward spiral. I'd imagine it's similar for fighters. If I am recalling right, the NFL is conducting research into concussions due to that; not exactly the same, but the effects of repeat head trauma and post-concussion syndrome.

-Cheers


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