# Interesting video from the 1994 French Ring Final



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

It's a little bit of an overview of the competition at first. But the majority of the video is flee and face attacks. 

Those suits look petty darn thin for one. Second I'm very surprised by the dogs here there is at least 40-45% of these dogs that get held off with the stick. No one uses a whistle for recall either. The stick work doesn't look that imposing not like a Mavuanga or Dosta stick work but a lot of these dogs get held off or come off the bite,. Like I said very surprised. I was was more under the impression that dogs from this era were more hardass and aggressive, but I don't see it for the most part in this video. Looks like the dogs, decoys and training has come a long way in the 17 off years since this competition. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd0pag_1994-aurillac-finale-ring-faces-et_sport


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> It's a little bit of an overview of the competition at first. But the majority of the video is flee and face attacks.
> 
> Those suits look petty darn thin for one. Second I'm very surprised by the dogs here there is at least 40-45% of these dogs that get held off with the stick. No one uses a whistle for recall either. The stick work doesn't look that imposing not like a Mavuanga or Dosta stick work but a lot of these dogs get held off or come off the bite,. Like I said very surprised. I was was more under the impression that dogs from this era were more hardass and aggressive, but I don't see it for the most part in this video. Looks like the dogs, decoys and training has come a long way in the 17 off years since this competition.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd0pag_1994-aurillac-finale-ring-faces-et_sport


Geoff, that is the Era of Cheyenne and Haggler. Your droll is dripping bud.

Cheyenne scored 392 plus at his championship.

Good stick work still did not work.

These dogs then as today Ringsport


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## susan jones (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks Geoff, that was amazing!!!! but really give it up for the dogs I realize it`s a clatter stick and all......but that`s some hard core stick work.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Anyone know the deal with the dog that lost his giddey-up?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

susan jones said:


> Thanks Geoff, that was amazing!!!! but really give it up for the dogs I realize it`s a clatter stick and all......but that`s some hard core stick work.


It cant take to much of the stick shaking and the dogs goda figure out nothings going to happen. How many ways can you shake a stick at a dog.
Seem like people are more impressed with the rattling sick than the dogs


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That was a hard baton, and I saw a few of the dogs get wrapped pretty good. I could hear the baton clearly, and I am sure the videographer was not 20 or 30 meters away. 

I thought it was good work. How many dogs today would have owners that would even have the guts to go against that guy ?


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Is the decoy wearing an open jacket?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> That was a hard baton, and I saw a few of the dogs get wrapped pretty good. I could hear the baton clearly, and I am sure the videographer was not 20 or 30 meters away.
> 
> I thought it was good work. How many dogs today would have owners that would even have the guts to go against that guy ?


Yeah the decoy work is great IMO the barrage looks weak to me, obviously effective in most of these cases though. Knowing it is a solid baton maybe it just doesn't look as menacing to the dog was my thought. So I was more surprised that the dogs didn't punch through the barrage. With a split stick the barrage really is a visual deterrent. I wonder if the stick is/was reed taped together? (Jerry this is your era what is the stick made out of Dude?) It sounds like normal split bamboo should but there is no splay.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

todd pavlus said:


> Is the decoy wearing an open jacket?


Yeah not the first time I've seen an open jacket either. If you ever get a chance to view one of the Championships that Patrice Fouscault decoyed in the 90's it is worth the long download time (it is floating around Chien Plus) same style of jacket. :-o Those center mass bites and hits have to hurt!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i know virtually nothing about ringsports, so you experts have to help me out here, ok?

first: the hard baton. looked to me like some of those dogs DID get "rapped" pretty hard, unlike modern vids where the decoy puts on a good show but doesn't actually hit the dog. and nowadays they use a split bamboo stick.

so what's the dif between a hard baton and split stick if the dogs are actually taking a hit?

Do they hit the dog either in this vid and/or in "modern" ringsport?

and, the dog sent out at 4:00--he has an injured (left?) rear leg and gets after it anyway... WOW!

i'll watch more, perhaps have more questions later or tomorrow, but i have only gotten to 4:52 at this point and these are the questions that come to mind (i gotta post as they come, or old age deletes 'em, lol). thanks in advance!


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## James Idi (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks for posting the link. That is an awesome video in my N00b opinion. Bob Marley's dog kicked some ass!

Part 2 has a GSD that does an awesome job of laying down the proverbial K9 smack on Mr. Decoy.

Couple of questions for those that know, or feel like pretending they know :

1. When the hunde "tackled" the decoy successfully, it seemed he offered little to no resistance compared to those hunde that simply "secured a bite", as opposed to actually knocking the decoy off his feet. Is that part of the rules of French ring or something?

2. Most of the hunde seemed absolutely fixated on getting a lower leg bite, which Mr. Decoy did an excellent job of defending with his "stick of woe". Is this a training issue? I would think that the hunde would be trained to go for what is available as opposed to solely a leg bite. 

Excellent video.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> That was a hard baton, and I saw a few of the dogs get wrapped pretty good. I could hear the baton clearly, and I am sure the videographer was not 20 or 30 meters away.
> 
> I thought it was good work. How many dogs today would have owners that would even have the guts to go against that guy ?


You want to see good stick.

JUNE 16,17,1990 FRENCH RINGSPORT CHAMPIONSHIP

Held by Club Saint-Hubert du Nord

Under the Villeneuve Association

The Judge was Daniel GEAIRN

Hommes D'Attaque

*Jean-Francois GALLAIS*

*Emile Moltini*


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

*Jean-Francois GALLAIS*

For u newbs.

*Jean-Francois GALLAIS*

To this very day his suits are the very best ever made. I still own one that I treat like gold.

He was a LEGEND as a Trial Decoy.

Some dogs who fought *Jean-Francois GALLAIS *in trial never were able to regain past levels.

His own breeding.

Very Hard Dogs.

Cibo v Mulderhof a fav stud Gallais used added more fight drive than any dog to present.

In Cibos Championship. He sent both Decoys to the Hospital. Alternates had to be recruited from the crowd.

Deux Pottois played a big role in the breeding program.

This Era is when G'Biber and G'Vitou set out a Genetic Footprint that to this very day is evident in all malinois of any quality.

My own personal breeding is 100% based on all the above mentioned dogs.

A bit of Ringsport Trivia


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

James Idi said:


> 1. When the hunde "tackled" the decoy successfully, it seemed he offered little to no resistance compared to those hunde that simply "secured a bite", as opposed to actually knocking the decoy off his feet. Is that part of the rules of French ring or something?


Once the decoys 2 knees touch the ground it is full points for the dog. The exercise is over for the decoy the dog wins that's all. 



James Idi said:


> 2. Most of the hunde seemed absolutely fixated on getting a lower leg bite, which Mr. Decoy did an excellent job of defending with his "stick of woe". Is this a training issue? I would think that the hunde would be trained to go for what is available as opposed to solely a leg bite.


Some is a training issue IMO. Plus some of those dogs after getting wanged a few times with the hard club have an aversion to it. I train now if the dog gets esquived the team I train with like to show the dog that it has options to go upstairs center mass or inside arm bite on the return counter attack. 

Someone with a lot more experience than me sent me a PM about this video and this is what they had to say. 

_I've seen that video a number of times, pretty typical of the style of work I saw back then. Not so much about finesse as just brute force, heavy sticks with very little splay to them, and hits that leave a dog welted or worse. If you watch closely, a number of those dogs took a HARD hit to the face as they were trying to come in. No barrage put up, just one well timed smack. The dog that came off, then on the next attack slammed into the decoy then ran away took a couple hits to the face in the first attack, and in the second attack right as he's hitting the decoy he takes another hit in the face, and he's done done done.

X's dad X competed in a Championship in the mid-90's, the video I saw looked similar to this one. X told me when he went to pick up the basket for the Guard of Object, it was covered in blood from the previous dogs who had been smacked in the face with the baton. His dog X ended up with a bloody nose during that trial because of a smack to the face. I think that's one reason they have rules now regarding not only how many times the stick must be split, but also the overall thickness and diameter. So people can't use those "clubs" anymore.

I think some of those dogs are showing the stress of getting to that level of competition though also. I heard many stories of dogs back then who by the time they made it through the Selectifs, from the pressure being put on them to be "perfect" they were basically destroyed, had to be put back on the tug and rebuilt. It's scary to think of that level of FRIII being that broken down mentally, but I guess any dog can break if you put enough pressure on them. And that old French style of training, that's pressure LOL_


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> You want to see good stick.


Can you tell us the specs of that stick Jerry.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> Can you tell us the specs of that stick Jerry.


 
Chech and Chong said it best with

*THE BIG BAMBOO*


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I heard many stories of dogs back then who by the time they made it through the Selectifs, from the pressure being put on them to be "perfect" they were basically destroyed, had to be put back on the tug and rebuilt. It's scary to think of that level of FRIII being that broken down mentally, but I guess any dog can break if you put enough pressure on them. And that old French style of training, that's pressure LOL

There is no pressure in FR Geoff, the decoy is running away all the time. :-$


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> There is no pressure in FR Geoff, the decoy is running away all the time. :-$


That is because a dog named Cheyenne des Loup Mutin came along with the new way to score points.

Clean clarity and perfect routines

His Championship and Coup Win was 392+

Loup Mutin then emerged as the leading kennel producing The New Ringsport Dogs


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## James Idi (Apr 19, 2009)

> Once the decoys 2 knees touch the ground it is full points for the dog. The exercise is over for the decoy the dog wins that's all.


Thanks for the intel.

Good stuff.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Chech and Chong said it best with
> 
> *THE BIG BAMBOO*


Ok so that's up in smoke, but what about the stick? Is it split and taped or solid and taped from the get go? It sounds like it is split but I could be wrong. Do you have any of your old rule books to see what it says, or know offhand?


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

>>>Anyone know the deal with the dog that lost his giddey-up?

I wondered that too , maybe Cruciate?
anyone know


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> Ok so that's up in smoke, but what about the stick? Is it split and taped or solid and taped from the get go? It sounds like it is split but I could be wrong. Do you have any of your old rule books to see what it says, or know offhand?


Oh boy, split


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Oh boy, split


What about dimensions and thicknesses? Sheesh I sound like a couple of rich divorcees at the male version of La Grange!


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

It was the tape Geoff. Now u know. 

BTW, thanks bro for the quick open g lesson


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> What about dimensions and thicknesses?


This is from the rulebook that was in effect in 1997. Since the rules are only changed every 5 years at most (most recent change was 2008, next won't be until 2013), chances are good it was the same rulebook that was in effect in 1994. It doesn't say anything about weight, dimension, or even how many times it has to be split. 

*The Baton* 
The baton shall be bamboo, 60 to 80 cm in length, and split through 3/4 of its length. The Decoy holds the unsplit end in his hand, taking care that no part of the handle end of the baton protrudes from his hand. The Judge must examine the batons for quality and consistency (batons fashioned of lath or reed are prohibited). 

I'm not sure if the decoy guidebook had more information, I can't find a copy on my computer, don't know if I have a printed copy somewhere.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Trick question Kadi.

It has to do with tape and the baton.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Trick question Kadi.
> 
> It has to do with tape and the baton.


I realize that, but he asked what the rulebook said regarding the baton.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Kadi, newbs and the questions.

Good one though, bet you will be watching sticks.

best regards


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