# Need advise



## sean t friedlund (Apr 9, 2010)

Not sure if this is were to post this if not mod please move. 
Very new hear have been lurking for a little while, and have learned a great deal from many of you. I recently purchased a 9 month old mali (sampson),he is now 11 months. He had very little OB training and some bite work, he has amazing prey and good defense drives. When I first brought him home I started to slowly introduce the fam(wife,2yr old and an infant) he was great with them. Recently he started snipping at my 2yr old and kinda grabbing his sleeves of his coat, the first two times I immediate correction and separated him from the pack (kennel in the garage) for about 3-5 hours. Everything was great for about a week sampson never showed any signs of aggression towards my son or my wife. Then 2 days ago we(myself,2yr old and Sampson) were out side playing, while I was petting him my son came up slowly and wanted to pet also, sampson was fine, sniffed,ears down licked then out of no-where he snipped and grabbed his coat again. Need to fix this and soon, don't know if I'm pushing it to fast or I missed something. Ps I'm green with mali's, so not sure if this is my fault or what 

Second thing how do you make the transfer from a food guided platz to a voice guided platz? Been working at it for about 2 weeks now with no signs of hope. Any advise?


----------



## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

For the time being I would keep the dog away from your child. It sounds like the dog may have to much freedom? If he is young/drivey and you are working his prey drive for OB the boundaries may not be clear to the dog. If the dog nips your kid he needs his ass kicked hard imho. Are you and the dog ready for such an ass kicking? Will the dog recover from a come to Jesus moment? 

As far as the OB- what is your goal for the dog? Is he a sport dog or a family companion, ppd etc? Are you working with a trainer/coach?


----------



## sean t friedlund (Apr 9, 2010)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> For the time being I would keep the dog away from your child. It sounds like the dog may have to much freedom? If he is young/drivey and you are working his prey drive for OB the boundaries may not be clear to the dog. If the dog nips your kid he needs his ass kicked hard imho. Are you and the dog ready for such an ass kicking? Will the dog recover from a come to Jesus moment?
> 
> As far as the OB- what is your goal for the dog? Is he a sport dog or a family companion, ppd etc? Are you working with a trainer/coach?


Thanks for your input, he is for pp, and have thought about doing some sport. I am very new with working dogs so this is all kinda live and learn. But don't really want to involve the fam in that if you know what i mean. We have had a small come to Jesus moment (in the first week). And yes we are working with a trainer, very good so far just checking oil, with all the vast knowledge on this forum. With the OB I want to take him as far as he will go, imo you can never have enough OB. When it comes to pp I understand you need a good balance, and I think we are doing good so far, just kinda stuck going from the food driven platz to the voice command. Have taken the food away, but I still need to put my closed fist in front of his nose with a downward motion to get him there, even if I'm five feet away he doesn't seem to grasp it. Once there he stays fine until released ( up to about 20 sec so far) just cant seem to get over that hurdle. He has caught onto everything else so fast I started thinking I am doing something wrong.


----------



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I had a similar experiance with my first PSD and my then about 6 month old son . I had told my ex wife not to have the dog out while I was away . She didn't listen and I returned home finding my ex crying . She said she let the dog in a was petting him when my son crawled up to her . When she reached over to pick my son up my PSD nipped at him grabbing some clothing . 

Needles to say she never did that again . I slowly let the dog be around my son later while on lead(the dog that is) . They eventually became fast friends after the dog realized the kid was a goldmine in dropping food wherever he went . 

It was a closeily monitored situation and even when the kids got bigger the dog was not allowed out unless I was around . 

With my second PSD he was only allowed out amongst the kids for them to throw the ball for him and throw him treats . Even then I held the dog while the kids threw the ball and the dog came back to me for the retrieval . He is actually a good dog around kids but I just didn't want to take a chance . The interaction he does get seems to be enough . He brightens up when he sees the kids because he knows he's going to either play or get something to eat .


----------



## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Hi Sean,

You need to teach the dog boundaries with your child. The dog should be on a leash and a prong collar. I really do not like chokers. 

The dog sounds like he is using prey with your child. It is still no excuse for the behavior. I would correct the dog with a "no" and a quick pop of the prongs as soon as he goes to nip the child. Have the dog lay down or sit when the child pets him.

Putting the dog away for 3-5 hours is not good discipline. The time is excessive and the dog losses the connection why he is in time out. I used time out with my dog but it was only for 3-5 minutes which is plenty.

I taught my Mal how to behave around my kids by tying him to the door. My small children could walk away if he started to get rough. The dog learns quickly to be gentle or he gets no attention from the children.

I think that you should really educate yourself with some books on dog training. There are many good books on dog training. I still like the Monks of New Skete books for some dogs minus the alpha rolls. The new book does a way with this. There books are good for dogs living in the home. I have heard good things about Ian Dunbar's book. There are also videos that you can watch if you do not like to read.

One of the things with dog training that will take you really far is to not let the behavior happen. In other words, you do not want the dog chewing on something then do not leave things laying around. Problems are harder to correct once they start. Prevention is the key. The dog should be on a leash and collar and with you all the time so that you can correct problems when they occur. If you can not do this then put the dog up in a safe place.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

On the down thing...

I am going through that right now myself..and "just barely" starting to have my pup listen to my voice with out the lure....

I will tell you what I am trying to do. There might be better ways too, I don't know..

My understanding is dogs learn by our body cues easier than verbal. Are saying the command just before you do the lure or hand movement? If you are doing both at the same time, the movement will trump what you are saying in the dogs mind.

So you say 'platz'..split second lure..mark..reward. Eventually you say 'platz' and the dog anticipates what is comming next and will do it without the lure.

In the mean time you can try some half way lures to wean the dog off the physical. So "platz" , lure, mark, reward a bunch...then "platz"..start the luring motion..and hopefully she will go into it on her own...mark reward. Fade the lure slowly.

Only work the platz in that session.

That is my strategy anyways...we will see where it gets me.


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

To also touch on the "platz" subject......are you handing the dog the treat when he does platz? 

If so, feed it to him between his front legs on the ground, not with your hand.....this keeps the dogs nose down looking for food and you can drop or set more than one piece down while marking it and then saying "good platz".


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

some good advice here. manage the pup and his environment (ie, leash and very limited contact with the kids).

re the OB, IME, the best thing i've ever figured out, to set a command in a pup's head, is work only one command per session (in my case, per day). they can offer every other behavior i've ever "marked", but i'll only reward the behavior i'm looking for WHEN I ASK FOR IT.

FWIW


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

i keep the dogs and our boy (and soon another little one: girl) apart.
If you want them together, always in you presence and monitoring. You have a young dog and a young child, not the best combi yet, till the dog learns to leave your child alone. Now he's still in eye height, moving quickly and not predictable, the best stuff to play with ;-)


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Sean, with the dog at a sit, stand in front and place your foot on the leash while holding the loop in your hand. The leash goes from the dogs collar, under your shoe, and up to your hand, sort of a big U shape.

Ask the dog to down, as you give your hand signal, give a light pop on the leash by pulling up with short jerks. this will pull down on the dog and if done correctly will maneuver him into the down position. When his chest hits the ground, Praise!  repeat three times before a food treat is given. 

Throw a ball, play for a few minutes then 'Sit' your dog and ask him to 'Down' again. He will likely go down without food at this point. Take a step away from the dog and ask for another 'Down' repeat,then give a treat and a break. Continue giving your command from greater and greater distances.

As far as the nipping with your kid? I think it is reasonably accurate to say that if an eleven month old Mal wanted to "bite" a small child that was standing in front of him the child would now be recovering! The behavior you described from the dog, sounds more like he wanted to play with the child than eat him. 

Dogs often grab things with their mouths because they don't have hands. People, that read a lot of books about dogs, then go inside thier home and feed their goldfish, often interpret any touching of, tooth to skin, as aggression, when it may just be the dog wanting to sort of say "Hey come on out and play, let me take your hand." I would look at your dogs entire body language before worrying about the kid/dog relationship. But small children should always, be supervised when the dogs around anyway. 

I would also second that Monks of New Skete book it is titled "How to Be Your Dogs' Best Friend"

Hope that 'Down' starts working for you 

Butch Cappel
k9ps.com


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I like Jack Robert's advice best. A dog has to learn that it is at the bottom of the hierachy. If only pet dog owners would realise this.

You can keep them apart, admittedly, but can you do this 100%. If not, what happens when the dog (who has not learned to accept the rules) gets loose or the children are around when not expected, and, and and.

I can honestly not see that a dog that has learned to respect the family structure, is not able to hold his own as a Police or (Protection (cringe) dog, or whatever.


----------



## sean t friedlund (Apr 9, 2010)

Thanks for all your help! I also noticed that sampson was not biting, but it was more of a nip. That said that is to much for me and i feel if not corrected now it might turn into a very bad thing. As for the platz he has started to do it on voice  and now working on didtance[-o<. Thank you everyone - Sean


----------



## morris lindesey (May 2, 2009)

His testosterone is starting to kick in,he needs his compulsive OB to begin NOW, before he outright starts challenging you!


----------



## sean t friedlund (Apr 9, 2010)

morris lindesey said:


> His testosterone is starting to kick in,he needs his compulsive OB to begin NOW, before he outright starts challenging you!


"Compulsive OB" not sure I know that term please clarify


----------

