# Playing Tug Rules and Transition to Object Guard?



## Dan Thi (Mar 26, 2017)

I was watching the Leerburg + Michael Ellis Dvd, The Power of Playing Tug with Your Dog. 

There is a section where he is giving a lady tips on the "Out". Her dog keeps barking at her constantly so he tells her to correct it (and on the screen this text is displayed) "Barking is unacceptable - This needs a Correction". Now I think he just means a verbal negative marker "No", but he did use a physical correction (leash pop) in a similar scenario earlier in the video.

Looking at "the picture", he (the dog) is almost Object Guarding her (the handler) in a sense. She is standing with the tug in front of her and he is sitting in front of her barking. Would correcting a dog for barking in this scenario then make the dog reluctant to barking when teaching the object guard? Or is it a separate activity and thus would have no bearing on the object guard? (Can the dog make that differentiation between the two scenarios?)


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

There is always fallout from correction.

I don't think it would effect training for object guard.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

With the Ellis method I would use the tug and markers to teach the out AND use it to teach the dog to quit barking.

Every dog is different so how and when to correct is something that needs to be figured out. 

Once the dog understands that outing gets another bite on the tug it goes fast. 

Same with teaching the "Quiet", "No" whatever word you decide on to get the dog to stop barking. 

With the out I may give 2-3-5 rebites randomly. On the final bite on the tug I give the out and a release.

That keeps the dog from figuring out that the" out" command doesn't mean the game is over every time.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I wouldn't consider this behavior an object guard. I believe it's the dog demanding interaction/reward/action which needs to be corrected. On of our PSDs does this which transferred over to any exercise that the team was beginning ie: tracks, building searches, OB etc. He is a very high drive dog and we had to correct this problem to keep the dog clear headed because when it came to the bite work the dog was out of control. The dog will now stay in control even in the face of a very animate decoy when the handler commands the dog to leave it. Dog stays targeted but clearly is listening to the handler awaiting commands. This was a hard case dog and the training took a few weeks but it was done in a way as to not be too conflicting with the handler or destroy the bond/trust.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Howard, can you explain further the way in which this hard dog was retaught?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

This particular dog is pretty strong and high drive. New handler but very capable. As soon as this dog got out of the car he'd start his nonsense. This dog loves to work and engage people and was demanding at all times. Sooo, we started at the car ugh!









I had the handler put a DD collar on this dog. Now, this handler had no clue on how to use one so I didn't risk him doing something stupid right out of the gate (exiting the car) so I had him bring the dog onto the field only maybe 15 feet from the car. Of course, I instructed him on how to use the collar and the timing of the correction and duration. I also explained to him that as the training went on I would explain to him how the dog is feeling, in real time, by his body language and whether he went too far, or not far enough on the correction. This training is meant to involve low low to medium corrections to avoid as much conflict as possible or erode the team bond. I use the DD collar because it is an immediate compliance tool and the dog knows exactly where the correction is coming from as opposed to the e collar. I want the dog to know that the handler's words have power and that the collar is big medicine. The collar will be phased out as the training progresses due to the positive rewards based on compliance.

In this case I'd enter the field 50 yards away (yes, 50 yards







). The dog is at heel. As soon as he reacts the handler lifts the dog off his front feet and gives the out command. If the dog breaks position he gives the heel command. If the dog refuses to heel he gets another collar lift. If the dog is not getting the gist of the correction then he gets one good enough to make him gator roll. That usually does it. Once I can enter the field with no reaction from the dog I began getting closer. Now, the dog does not go without reward for very long because he needs motivation other than the correction. In this case though the dog had a major out problem so we didn't reward with a tug or toy right away, just verbal and physical praise until he realized how much influence the DD collar has and that the out command is coupled with the DD collar correction. Only then did we risk giving a toy reward.

OK...So up to this point I am just a presence on the filed. We do this until I can get within 6 feet of the dog with no major setbacks. This whole time I am giving zero body language to the dog other than calming type signals. From there I move out again, maybe 30 yards. I trigger the dog with a look. Dog reacts and he gets the DD from the handler. If the dog does not react, the handler turns 180 deg, gives heel command and a play of tug. I do the same as I move closer. When I can eye f**k the dog from 6ft away with no reaction I put more heat into it.

To progress, I move out to about 25 yards (the dog knows the deal with the DD now, and he knows the penalty for reaction). I make prey movements. Dog is corrected for reaction ie: barking/lunging. This is a high drive dog. It's not hurting him at all to take him all the way back. We get the foundation laid and then the handler lets the dog slide up to what is acceptable to him. When I can run past the dog within a few feet of the team with no reaction then I inject more into the training.

Next I brought out a clatter stick. Boy, that set this dog off because I happen to know this dog, where he came from (My former import business) and how he was trained and by whom selected him. (BTW, I refused this dog upon seeing the video before he came from Romania but when I left the business the moron owner brought him in anyway














). This dog is very sensitive to the whip and gun fire and the clatter stick is just a step below. Through many many sessions we got the dog to relax. Next to come out was bite equipment. Just carrying it onto the field was like dejavue. 

OK. So now the dog knows the power of the DD collar. He's coupled it with the out command. He gets reward for no reaction, and he gets to bite me every now and then. He gets tug reward for the out on the decoy (later phased out tug), and he's totally open minded and clear headed. Best of all, he's shut the hell up! The handler is elated!

In the end, I can suit up...eye f**k the dog, stand next to him in the suit, walk behind him and step on his tail, bump him with my leg whilst wearing the suit, stand in front and hug the handler, all with no reaction. Dog is patiently waiting for bite command and he gets it as a compliance reward. Life is good. Handler lets the dog slide a little and eases some of the control work we've done on him because, after all, he's a PSD not a sport dog. 

This was an extreme issue and how we corrected it. I've done it with two of our dogs. Both turned out well in the long run. It's not rocket science but it is a lesson in patience and perseverance.

As a bonus, this training fixed more than one problem. It cleaned up his out, it kept him quiet at the door for K9 announcements, it kept him from dragging the handler around, it opened the dogs mind up and included the handler in the equation and most important of all, it strengthened the bond which always makes for a better team.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you for the time and effort you put into explaining that useful info.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Excellent post Howard!

Reward for good behavior and consequence for bad behavior.

Perfect combination!!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thanks guys.

Just so ya know, this was the short version. There are so many steps in between that I didn't touch on for fear of being too long winded. Basically I used a varying amount of props, movement, body language and sound to trigger responses from the dog. In the end I could charge the dog at a full run whilst banging a clatter stick and screaming at the top of my lungs with no reaction from the dog. It took tons of work utilizing multitudes of equipment combinations etc to get it done. Now, normally I would want my dog to address such a threat but I know this dog will do that no matter what so I knew we could take him all the way back. Any dog with good genetics won't be hurt by this. They will, however look to the owner for permission but all it takes is letting the dog do what he needs to a couple times that he will revert to what is acceptable for us. 

This particular dog takes liberties when he can so every now and then we have to get his mind right again. No biggie. One training session usually does it.

Was looking through my training records and discovered that it took about 25, 15-20 minute sessions over a month period to get it done with this hard case.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

It takes tons of " KNOWLEDGE" and work! 

Working with a DD collar on a serious dog can get a nuby chewed up without that knowledge.


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## Dan Thi (Mar 26, 2017)

glad I made this thread, lots of great info! 

@Howard you did a rather great job explaining that, I was able to clearly picture each paragraph in my mind!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Dan Thi said:


> glad I made this thread, lots of great info!
> 
> @Howard you did a rather great job explaining that, I was able to clearly picture each paragraph in my mind!


 Thanks Dan. My example was an extreme. Methinks fixing your issue will be much easier.


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