# Out by calling back...



## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

I'm having a training block with my pup (18 months)...

When I command to release his bite and come to me...he will do it perfectly if I'm within 3 meters. Anything farther than that, he wants to stay with the decoy, and I have to correct all the way back to me, either using constant stimulation with the ecollar, and releasing it when he's next to me, or the same but with the prong collar. He releases well, but it's a very slow return to me.

He will do it perfectly at any distance on a spring pole, but when it's on a man, the picture changes completely.

My objective is for him to release and come back to me to COVER.

I appreciate any suggestions.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Tried a reward if he´s back at your side?
If he has to choose between elec stim or prong corrections when he´s slow, or a reward (bite roll/ IPO sleeve) with you because he came fast..I know where he chooses for..


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

I've tried that, but he has not shown any interest in a reward. Please keep the brainstorm coming. :lol:


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## Mark Connolly (Jun 19, 2006)

You need to motivate him to return to you at speed. Try calling the out and when he turns to look at you begin running backwards presenting a tug in front of you for reward. If your dog is releasing the bite well than I would stop the corrections for time being until he returns to you at speed through motivation. Utilize a long line in the beginning so that you can guide the dog back to you after the out. As he returns play a rewarding game of tug with him giving loads of praise. Command release off the tug and then the decoy reagitates and the dog is sent for bite on the decoy. Continue playing this game until the dog learns that releasing the bite does not end the game but only adds to it. End the session after a solid tug game and let him carry off the tug. 
This is hard to put in words but this has worked for me and many others.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Similar to Mark. Let him learn that the return will get him a rebite and win the sleeve. Often the handler with a tug is nowhere near as exciting as a bite on the helper.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

This dog spits out a sleeve and focuses on the man. He comes back to me walking backwards. Plus he's a bit hard. He's not very interested in tugs when in protection.

He loves tugs and playing everywhere else, though.

Any other ways of skinning this cat, other than tugs and sleeves as a reward?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> I've tried that, but he has not shown any interest in a reward. Please keep the brainstorm coming. :lol:


So the corrections doesn´t bother him so much, he wants to be a good boy for you or did you used the wrong reward for him?
Did you use a regular prong and regular teletac?


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

What do you mean by wrong reward?

The corrections bother him, but he wants the man more than the bother of the correction. He moves towards me a few steps, and sits...looking at the man, then move a few more steps, and so on until he reaches me.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

what has worked successfully for me (i had the same problem as you) was start with you in the middle of two decoys. all three of you are basically in a line. they should each be about 20 feet from you. have the long line on the dog. send him on the first guy. then out him, give a tug on the long line and have the decoy behind you yell and scream and get the dogs attention. send the dog on that decoy. do this a couple of times so the dog is going back and forth, running by you for the bites.

do a few reps of this. after the first few, you can get rid of the long line. he'll come flying back off of the first bite. now is when i'd go back to the e-collar. after he's coming past you pretty good you can start to call him off of the second bite. so after the first bite, when he's running toward you give him either the heel command or a down command whichever you feel is more reliable and re-enforce it with the e-collar. at first call him off maybe once for every 3 bites (3 bites to 1 call-off/heel). for me, the first few times i used the down command and eventually went to the heel. after enough reps of this, he'll do well, but remember to always once in a while give him that second bite or he'll fall back into his old habit...


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

I mean that the reward isn´t rewarding enough, Tim´s idea sounds good..that´s a great reward, a re-bite :wink:


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> I mean that the reward isn´t rewarding enough, Tim´s idea sounds good..that´s a great reward, a re-bite :wink:


oh yeah, i forgot to add that if you do this method on a regular basis, you better be careful when outting your dog. make sure nobody is around you or behind you. the dog may think that person is his "re-bite reward". i almost had it happen with my dog a couple weeks ago and another dog in our group got a real training bite this way...


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

We've done the very same thing that Tim has done. This is a good motivator and works very well. Thanks Tim, you said everything perfectly. Good job


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions. My pup needed a little extra persuasion...and now he's coming all the way back at a reasonable pace.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

What kind of persuation?


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