# Low T4 and behavior



## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

Nyx's T4 is on the low end of normal, my vet says she's prefer to see it higher on a dog her age (about 19 months).

Nyx has some fear and aggression issues and I'm wondering if it could be a thyroid issue.

I read this, which is by Dr. Dodds and it does make mention of a T4 on the low end of normal. I'm hoping someone can explain this stuff in small words :wink: 

Reading the web page there makes me think maybe we should have done more testing?


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## Mary Lehman (Oct 2, 2008)

Hi Liz. I was out reading Dodd's stuff last week as well - for my 4 yoa Mal. He's very moody, sleeps a ton and he is itchy as well even though we've tried many different diets/protein sources.

I printed out the paperwork to send the bloodwork to Hemopet, where Dr. Dodds analyzes the tests and makes a diagnosis based on that. It appears that the T4 really isn't enough to get an accurate reading. Let me know if you decide to test again and send to Hemopet.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

liz shulman said:


> Nyx's T4 is on the low end of normal, my vet says she's prefer to see it higher on a dog her age (about 19 months).
> 
> Nyx has some fear and aggression issues and I'm wondering if it could be a thyroid issue.
> 
> ...


Aside from fear and aggression, what other symptoms do you see?

What was the T4 number?


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

Other symptoms ~ she does get itchy. I'm not sure if that's a symptom. I don't see anything else, but I'm not entirely sure what would be a symptom. She doesn't have any trouble maintaining her weight, which is highly unusual for my dogs (they usually burn it off faster than they can eat ;-) ), but she's not overweight.

T4 was 1.3


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Liz:

Dodds looks at 5-8 levels and Michigan does 5. Did you just get a T4? I did the Michigan panel on Thor last year with one level being low and the rest within normal range and it was inconclusive, really. Decided in the future to send it to Dodd's Homeopet. Thyroid can affect behavior though.

Terrasita


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## Tom Moorcroft (Aug 27, 2008)

I recently had my 2 yo Mal tested with a Hemopet thyroid panel b/c he works a ton, does a lot of conditioning and is still a bit overweight. I have significantly decreased the amount he eats over the last 6 months without improvement. He also is a bit hyperactive (but he is a Mal 8)) and has some coat changes. His T4 is 1.88 (in the normal range, but out of optimal) and his free T4 is 0.81 (low end of optimal is 0.80).

So I went to Jean's website and found an interesting article on highly conditioned sled dogs and also greyhounds and how T4 and fT4 can be significantly depressed during the height of conditioning (ie, race season). I don't know if working in USAR and an hour on the treadmill a day count as highly conditioned as defined by the article, but it was interesting to read. There are also some other interesting articles on thyroid:

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/THYROID-ARTICLES.HTM

I'm going to contact Jean and ask her specifically about my guy's case and his levels. I'll let you know if I learn anything new.


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

Terrasita, yes, I did just the T4 - I was on the budget plan :roll: - and I really didn't expect it to be a problem. So Dodds is an afterthought and following that is the realization that maybe I should have done more complete testing.

Tom, thanks for the link, some interesting reading. As for conditioning work, her training really isn't that intense for me to think it would affect thyroid levels. A little obedience, a little bit of bite work. Let me know what happens with your dog.


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## Tom Moorcroft (Aug 27, 2008)

Hey Liz, 

FYI - The tests are about $65 for Jean to perform, but my vet doubles that cost to cover his drawing blood, spinning, supplies and shipping, so I pay $130ish. Not the cheapest test, but the panel will provide much needed info for making an appropriate diagnosis. Best of luck. I'll keep you posted as to what Jean says.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

liz shulman said:


> Other symptoms ~ she does get itchy. ... T4 was 1.3


Since that is SO close to the bottom of normal, I think that I'd be looking at doing additional tests.

http://siriusdog.com/hypothyroid-dog-signs.htm


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

Tom Moorcroft said:


> Hey Liz,
> 
> FYI - The tests are about $65 for Jean to perform, but my vet doubles that cost to cover his drawing blood, spinning, supplies and shipping, so I pay $130ish. Not the cheapest test, but the panel will provide much needed info for making an appropriate diagnosis. Best of luck. I'll keep you posted as to what Jean says.


Hmmm... I need to talk to my vet about that... The price for the T4 was about $130. A full thyroid panel was more than twice that. Is your vet in CT? If gas prices keep coming down, maybe I'll go there to have the blood drawn.



Connie Sutherland said:


> Since that is SO close to the bottom of normal, I think that I'd be looking at doing additional tests.
> 
> http://siriusdog.com/hypothyroid-dog-signs.htm



Thanks, Connie. I was hoping someone would give a straight test/don't test answer ~ not that I'm not enjoying the discussion also.

I spent a lot of time and money running tests on Morgan only to have nothing conclusive and a spay being the best suggestion for treatment. After that, I've kinda swung the other way in trying not to run tests. I'll talk to my vet next week.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

The age seems so odd for hypothyroidism. JMO, though.

I think that middle age is the common time for dogs.

Maren? 

Yes? No?


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

I was hoping Maren would jump in here -- still hoping :-\" 

As for the age, from what I've been reading, it sounds like hypothyroidism can start at puberty. 

Maybe it's not diagnosed that young because people don't see or the dogs don't exhibit enough symptoms until further progression??


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

I'd have to call the vet to get the exact #s from test results from a dog I used to have. He was way below normal on his T4 and free T4.

He was diagnosed via the bloodtest when he was 3 years of age. However, I noticed changes in him at around 2 years of age. Specifically, his nose turned pink-ish and stayed that way until I put him on the thyroid meds a year later. Also, he wasn't ever hugely fat, but always looked a little tubby to me regardless of exercise or diet. He lost his defined waist and never had great muscle tone. The skin and coat issues didn't show up until a few months before I had him tested, which was a year after I noticed the nose and slight weight gain. The only behavior change I noticed in him was that he was quick to fatigue during exercise. He was never itchy, despite losing hair on his ears and tail and developing a coarser/drier coat.

My vet thought I was nuts for wanting to test him, despite the weight gain (he said my dog didn't look fat to him, probably because he looks at fat dogs all day long) and coat/skin issues. When the #'s came back though, there was no denying a thyroid issue. The test was pretty conclusive.

I noticed a change in him almost immediately after starting the medication. 10 months later, he looks like a different dog. He's owned by a friend of mine now, so I see him regularly. His coat is darker and softer and he's in awesome shape - lean and muscular.

I often wonder what the test results would have been had I tested him earlier when the only symptoms were a pinkish nose and weight gain.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Here is a pic of this dog just prior to his blood test and diagnosis. Note that he doesn't look like the hypothyroid dogs you see on most vet/health websites...


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## Tom Moorcroft (Aug 27, 2008)

I know this dog and when I recently saw him I almost didn't recognize him. Unfortunately, my Mal is starting to look like Konnie's old dog, but he's 2 and his test results are just barely below optimal. Weight gain regardless of exercise or diet, coarse hair, some episodes of easy fatiguability and he had lightening of his nose last winter, but it got better come spring. Spoke with Jean Dodd's who recommended retesting in 4-6 months and noted that his level of exercise (1hr of treadmill and obedience/agility/direction work daily with average one day of search training a week) could lower his T4 and fT4 a little bit.

I wonder if in 6 months or a year my dog will test like Konnie's did, and then I'll be pissed! Although, if his thyroid continues to work well, what the heck is going on?


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## Mary Lehman (Oct 2, 2008)

Is low Thyroid an issue with Mals? Or is it just that's the breed of preference that has been talked about with Hypothyroid?


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

I've seen hypothyroid dogs of a number of breeds and mixes. I don't think it's a breed-specific illness. Many of the people here do have mals is why we're discussing mals who are hypothyroid, if this was a pet oriented board, you'd probably see one of each breed represented. 

Here's the OFA list of thyroid statistics by breed.
http://www.offa.org/thystatbreed.html


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