# NAZI Germany Lives !



## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

http://www.angelplace.net/usca/Nazi_Letter.pdf


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lives where?

In the US?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

The SV/WUSV says that UScA has to recognize all GSDCA/WDA score books. I don't see the problem and don't understand the reference to the National Socialist Party?


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm confused


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Its like those ridiculous political ads. Stick someone's picture next to Stalin and Hitler and hopefully the masses will think they they are the same. Here the SV is saying that despite USCA participating in the vote to amend the constitution, they violate constitutional provisions by not recognizing a WUSV member club's members and score books. Unless, the UScA agrees to comply with the constitution, they will implement sanctions--i.e. no participation in the world championship. Where in this do you see Nazi Germany? Or do you have some back room information that is not apparent in the pdf attachment?

T


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> The SV/WUSV says that UScA has to recognize all GSDCA/WDA score books. I don't see the problem and don't understand the reference to the National Socialist Party?


The problem is that it kind of feels like WDA is a parasite. WDA sucks on the teat of GSDCA for legitimacy and also wants to suck on the teat of UScA for trials/titling. Unfortunately WDA has nothing to offer in turn. UScA members can trial at WDA trials......but WDA holds very few trials, and now they will hold even fewer trials. 

Personally, I would love to see UScA get out from under the SV.. I think the SV has much more in common with GSDCA than they have in common with UScA anyway. I realize there would be no more WUSV team....big deal. 

If it's so important to the organization align themselves with a GSD organization, perhaps it's time to look at RSV2000.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I agree that RSV2000 would be a better fit for a working GSD organization, but until and unless that happens? UScA is stuck with what the WUSV/SV says. Recognize any and all GSDCA/WDA score books and quit looking for loopholes :-(
Personally I'd rather the United SCHUTZHUND Club got back to putting on Schutzhund/IPO trials and forgot all about GSD conformation shows and politics. The SV and GSDCA have more in common with each other then either has in common with a real GSD working dog.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

http://www.angelplace.net/usca/USCA&WDA.htm


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I agree that RSV2000 would be a better fit for a working GSD organization, but until and unless that happens? UScA is stuck with what the WUSV/SV says. Recognize any and all GSDCA/WDA score books and quit looking for loopholes :-(
> Personally I'd rather the United SCHUTZHUND Club got back to putting on Schutzhund/IPO trials and forgot all about GSD conformation shows and politics. The SV and GSDCA have more in common with each other then either has in common with a real GSD working dog.


As far as WDA, it doesn't bother me that they be allowed to trial in UScA trials, but not if they don't have to pay an additional fee as non-members of UScA, for me that is complete bullshit, a serious bone of contention.

I agree about not looking for loopholes, I think that's kind of chicken shit. I say recognize this as a wonderful opportunity, grow a pair, and cut ties with the SV.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> ............Personally I'd rather the United SCHUTZHUND Club got back to putting on Schutzhund/IPO trials and forgot all about GSD conformation shows and politics...
> 
> 
> > Me too, brother, me too.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

More like Melrose place than Nazi Germany.


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

I'm really surprised at Jim, he's normally a voice of reason here. Minor dog politics that make less of a contribution to society than my dust bin under the entirely inappropriate headline banner of Nazi Germany.
What a stupid comment to make.

Mark


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> The problem is that it kind of feels like WDA is a parasite. WDA sucks on the teat of GSDCA for legitimacy and also wants to suck on the teat of UScA for trials/titling. Unfortunately WDA has nothing to offer in turn. UScA members can trial at WDA trials......but WDA holds very few trials, and now they will hold even fewer trials.
> 
> Personally, I would love to see UScA get out from under the SV.. I think the SV has much more in common with GSDCA than they have in common with UScA anyway. I realize there would be no more WUSV team....big deal.
> 
> If it's so important to the organization align themselves with a GSD organization, perhaps it's time to look at RSV2000.


 
Sue the WUSV is a union of clubs that choose to become members. They come together for the greater good of ALL of it's members. The same rules appy to all of them everywhere in the world. Why should UScA recieve special treatment and skirt the rules of the union? 

I see this as a positive for everyone in IPO, including USCA members. It's like when a father tells the kids in the back seat" Don't make me pull this car over!", got fed up, pulled the car over and starting smacking. After the dust settles everyone got back in the car and had a relaxing ride and a nice vacation. 

Breaking away from the SV/WUSV is never gonna happen. That's why USCA has been fighting with WDA for all these years in the first place. 

I'll go and prepare for the standard "Stop bashing UScA" response.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> Sue the WUSV is a union of clubs that choose to become members. They come together for the greater good of ALL of it's members. The same rules appy to all of them everywhere in the world. Why should UScA recieve special treatment and skirt the rules of the union?
> 
> I see this as a positive for everyone in IPO, including USCA members. It's like when a father tells the kids in the back seat" Don't make me pull this car over!", got fed up, pulled the car over and starting smacking. After the dust settles everyone got back in the car and had a relaxing ride and a nice vacation.
> 
> ...


Christopher I'm well aware of what the WUSV is, and no where did I suggest UScA should have special treatment and skirt the rules of the SV, which is the tail that wags the WUSV dog. WDA is not a member of WUSV, and according to the WDA bylaws, they were their own seperate entity, so until the ruling came from the SV, it was WDA that wanted special treatment. 

The WUSV comes together for the greater good?????? BAHAHAHAHA!!! Now that's REALLY funny!!! The WUSV is run by the SV, and the SV only gives a shit about the show line dog which is where the money is. The ONLY thing the WUSV does is put on the GSD schH world championship...big whoop - exactly how many people does that effect in YOUR world? Doesn't even represent the best dogs in the world anymore. 

Unless you have a crystal ball, you have no clue what's going to happen. I can tell you the best thing for the sport and for my breed would be for UScA to break away from the SV. It could happen...you never know.

There is another game in town. It's called the RSV2000, of which I am a member. 

Yep, best thing for my breed and for our sport would be to cut ties with the SV.

The SV and GSDCA have everything in common, they like show line shitters and only pay lip service to schutzhund, match made in heaven.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Seriously?!!?!

This is a photo of a Jewish mother holding her child before being shot and killed by a Nazi soldier.









Please don't ever compare petty dog sport politics to something like this ever again. I am appalled that someone could even relate the two. Unreal.


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## Eric Read (Aug 14, 2006)

How about when people want to trial their dogs, they go find a trial with a judge they consider to be fair, and if they want to show, go trial under judges they consider to be fair and when you want to go train, go train with people that you find to be acceptable. Who cares if someone has HIJKLMNOP on their membership card, if they're willing to be judged by the same standards you are at a trial, hop on board is about all I can say. 

But as usual people have to get so caught up in who's right, they'll fight tooth and nail while everything dies around them.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> Christopher I'm well aware of what the WUSV is, and no where did I suggest UScA should have special treatment and skirt the rules of the SV, which is the tail that wags the WUSV dog. WDA is not a member of WUSV, and according to the WDA bylaws, they were their own seperate entity, so until the ruling came from the SV, it was WDA that wanted special treatment.
> 
> The WUSV comes together for the greater good?????? BAHAHAHAHA!!! Now that's REALLY funny!!! The WUSV is run by the SV, and the SV only gives a shit about the show line dog which is where the money is. The ONLY thing the WUSV does is put on the GSD schH world championship...big whoop - exactly how many people does that effect in YOUR world? Doesn't even represent the best dogs in the world anymore.
> 
> ...


Why would it be better for your breed?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Stefan Schaub said:


> Why would it be better for your breed?


I think it's obvious why having a breed organization that actually places emphasis on the work and the sport would be beneficial to one who places emphasis on the show ring. Serve one master not two.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I don't know, the Malinois people have no problem being part of the AKC and letting the show people do their thing and that breed is FAR better off than the GSD will probably ever be again.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> I don't know, the Malinois people have no problem being part of the AKC and letting the show people do their thing and that breed is FAR better off than the GSD will probably ever be again.


I really don't think you can compare the SV (supposedly the guardian of the GSD) to the AKC (United States multi breed registration organization).

No one said the show people shouldn't be allowed to do their thing. I think the SV and the GSDCA do represent each other and should continue with their relationship. What I am saying is it would be better for working line GSDs to be represented by an organization that has their interest at heart, not one who's interest is primarily the show dog, who's idea of a correct GSD is diametrically opposed to what those who favor working line dogs believe is a correct GSD. You can't serve two masters.

As far as the Malinois is concerned, I believe their saving grace (so far), is in not becoming popular and perhaps having breeders who are not short sighted and who are more concerned with the breed than the money brought on by popularity. I do know a number of Malinois people who have voiced concerns regarding the direction of their breed in the AKC show ring, as well as many who didn't like the fact that the Malinois was in the famed and much publicized Seal Team 6 that took out Bin Laden, because of how that might trigger the general public to think they want a Malinois, and who have concerns because (according to them), the numbers of Malinois in shelters are on the rise.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> Seriously?!!?!
> 
> This is a photo of a Jewish mother holding her child before being shot and killed by a Nazi soldier.
> 
> ...


I didn't want to comment on this because with a name like Sternberg I am obviously prejudiced. I grew up with some Jewish elders who had the concentration camp tattoos on their wrists. Heard all the horror stories many times.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I didn't want to comment on this because with a name like Sternberg I am obviously prejudiced. I grew up with some Jewish elders who had the concentration camp tattoos on their wrists. Heard all the horror stories many times.


I'm Irish and Mexican but I grew up with a Jewish stepdad. I certainly experienced more Jewish customs than Catholic or Christian, even though I'm not "technically" Jewish.

Sue, I'm sure popularity has something to do with it, but I really think you hit the nail on the head regarding the mindset of the people.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> I'm Irish and Mexican but I grew up with a Jewish stepdad. I certainly experienced more Jewish customs than Catholic or Christian, even though I'm not "technically" Jewish.
> 
> Sue, I'm sure popularity has something to do with it, but I really think you hit the nail on the head regarding the mindset of the people.


I used to go into LA when I lived in SOCAL for "Jew Food"\\/


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I used to go into LA when I lived in SOCAL for "Jew Food"\\/


The ONLY place you can find it! Geez. There's one or two places that has killer matzo ball soup near me, but that's almost it!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> The ONLY place you can find it! Geez. There's one or two places that has killer matzo ball soup near me, but that's almost it!


That's the only thing about being up here, I would do almost anything for a good deli....I also long for decent Persian food...in fact come to think of it, there is no no soul food of any persuasion at all....very sad.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> The ONLY place you can find it! Geez. There's one or two places that has killer matzo ball soup near me, but that's almost it!


Don't forget I haven't lived in SOCAL sine the 70's. I'm a old MOFO. It was a nice area way back then.:smile:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> That's the only thing about being up here, I would do almost anything for a good deli....I also long for decent Persian food...in fact come to think of it, there is no no soul food of any persuasion at all....very sad.


Take a ride, Susan. Pikes Market has just about anything a foodie could ever desire.\\/


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Take a ride, Susan. Pikes Market has just about anything a foodie could ever desire.\\/


Ya know, that's a really good idea, I enjoy Pike Place Market and Seattle is a really neat town...it's only about 2.5 hours from me if there's no traffic....hmmmmm....I'm thinking a little road trip just might be the ticket!!!! Thanks for the suggestion, Lee.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Ya know, that's a really good idea, I enjoy Pike Place Market and Seattle is a really neat town...it's only about 2.5 hours from me if there's no traffic....hmmmmm....I'm thinking a little road trip just might be the ticket!!!! Thanks for the suggestion, Lee.


I'm really jealous, Susan. I used to bring a big ice chest when I hit the "Market" and bring lots of goodies back to Idaho any time I went there. While I was there I always stuffed my face big time.:-D

I think is is a bit off topic from Nazi Germany! LOL


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I'm really jealous, Susan. I used to bring a big ice chest when I hit the "Market" and bring lots of goodies back to Idaho any time I went there. While I was there I always stuffed my face big time.:-D
> 
> I think is is a bit off topic from Nazi Germany! LOL


You are not allowed to be jealous of Pike Place, and I find no pity in my heart for Mr Cuba Libre who gets to go to Costa Rica and sit on the beach all the time.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I have heard such good things about Pike's Market! But I've never been. I had a pretty good bagel with lox from Einstein's the other day...but I've had better.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> I have heard such good things about Pike's Market! But I've never been. I had a pretty good bagel with lox from Einstein's the other day...but I've had better.


There is a great Jewish deli in Denver. It was actually featured on national TV. It has all the goodies. I hit there every time I go to the VA Medical Center.

I agree! Einstein's is a imitation of the real deal.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> You are not allowed to be jealous of Pike Place, and I find no pity in my heart for Mr Cuba Libre who gets to go to Costa Rica and sit on the beach all the time.


I understand, but CR is the unfood capitol of the world.:razz:


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> I think it's obvious why having a breed organization that actually places emphasis on the work and the sport would be beneficial to one who places emphasis on the show ring. Serve one master not two.


that is not really a answer for my question!!why would it make your breed better?does anyone dictate you to breed xxx male on xxx female?no,never in the past and never in the future.you live in the us right?so you live in a paradise,you can breed what you want how you want and when you want.you have so small rules for breeding here what do you want more.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Stefan Schaub said:


> that is not really a answer for my question!!why would it make your breed better?does anyone dictate you to breed xxx male on xxx female?no,never in the past and never in the future.you live in the us right?so you live in a paradise,you can breed what you want how you want and when you want.you have so small rules for breeding here what do you want more.


you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> I have heard such good things about Pike's Market! But I've never been. I had a pretty good bagel with lox from Einstein's the other day...but I've had better.


No problem! Just stay at Susan's house and go with her.#-o:-D:-D:-D:-D\\/


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

You think mine is a non-answer, yet you bring up the freedom of living in the United States, which has nothing to do with the subject of whether or not UScA should sever ties with the SV.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> You think mine is a non-answer, yet you bring up the freedom of living in the United States, which has nothing to do with the subject of whether or not UScA should sever ties with the SV.


explain what you mean with it is better for my breed.i am open to learn new ways


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Overhaul the breed survey rules and schH tests for one thing. I don't have time right now to outline changes I think would benefit the breed because I have to leave right now, meeting a friend... 2 minutes ago :-o..


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> Overhaul the breed survey rules and schH tests for one thing. I don't have time right now to outline changes I think would benefit the breed because I have to leave right now, meeting a friend... 2 minutes ago :-o..


At Pike's Market?! Lol


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Overhaul the breed survey rules and schH tests for one thing. I don't have time right now to outline changes I think would benefit the breed because I have to leave right now, meeting a friend... 2 minutes ago :-o..


GSD Breed Survey consists of:

gun test
attack on the handler out of the blind
2 stick hits
dog outs or doesn't

I don't think this is a very good breed suitability test for a working dog. It feels like it's taylor made so that the weakest of show line dogs can be trained to pass, which makes it meaningless. 

I would think the breed survey should test all the qualities we want to see including a dogs drives. Also test for environmental soundness, and not the same every time. On the attack on the handler out of the blind, it should not be obvious where the helper is coming from, there should be different scenarios. The helper should maybe also scream as he comes out, present the picture of a real threat, not come out like he is the dogs friend. The stick hits should be STICK HITS not a little massage with the padded stick.

Same thing with schutzhund. I would add the attack on the handler out of the blind back into the sch1 test. The stick hits should be stick HITS. Instead of the wall we have now it should be a true vertical wall. 

If the tests present problems for the breed, breed dogs that can pass the test, not water down the tests so that the weak dogs can pass too.

P.S. The title of this thread is gross. I don't think it was necessary to add the word Nazi for the shock value in order to get people to read the thing, and I don't think it's right to equate the SV with Nazi either.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> GSD Breed Survey consists of:
> 
> gun test
> attack on the handler out of the blind
> ...


In my description of the GSD breed survey I forgot to include the long bite. I would like to see the helper also perform this portion of the test with more vigor, and see all the dogs held to a high standard.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Susan,

Maybe the show line GSD's aren't coming off the bites? They're just outing early? ;-)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Susan,
> 
> Maybe the show line GSD's aren't coming off the bites? They're just outing early? ;-)



They have to bite in order to come off the bite OR out. :twisted:


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