# Help, Looking for a working/family Mal?



## Martin Doan (Jul 27, 2011)

I am looking for a Mal with extreme drives, really balanced, clear head, and strong full grips. I am interested in doing high level sports, maybe PSA, Ring, or IPO. I want a dog that is capable of this and yet can calm down in the house, social, and get along with my other (small and big) dogs. I like The dogs that LoganHaus have, especially Ivo and Rudy. I like Rudy for his size, hard hitting attacks, clear mind, well balanced and best of all being social yet protective when need be. If anyone have a dog from these lines, let me know how your dog is at home, off the field as well as on the field. Or does anyone recommend another breeder? Thanks for your help


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## Ron Gnodde (Sep 1, 2009)

Martin Doan said:


> I am looking for a Mal with extreme drives, really balanced, clear head, and strong full grips. I am interested in doing high level sports, maybe PSA, Ring, or IPO. I want a dog that is capable of this and yet can calm down in the house, social, and get along with my other (small and big) dogs. I like The dogs that LoganHaus have, especially Ivo and Rudy. I like Rudy for his size, hard hitting attacks, clear mind, well balanced and best of all being social yet protective when need be. If anyone have a dog from these lines, let me know how your dog is at home, off the field as well as on the field. Or does anyone recommend another breeder? Thanks for your help


I should contact Mike


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## Urska Dolenc (Jul 31, 2011)

I would just be careful with a few things. Some of the things you desire can contradict eachother under certain circumstances. Extreme drives can also mean a certain reactive behaviour or problems staying calm in the house. I have a rottweiler male, malinois female and amstaff female, all of them living in a house. The hardest to live with is malinois. She had to learn what being calm in the house means and it took us some time to get to where she is today. She is the biggest joy on the training field but still the most cuddly in the house. But still not the easiest dog to live with.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Martin Doan said:


> I am looking for a Mal with extreme drives, really balanced, clear head, and strong full grips. I am interested in doing high level sports, maybe PSA, Ring, or IPO. I want a dog that is capable of this and yet can calm down in the house, social, and get along with my other (small and big) dogs. I like The dogs that LoganHaus have, especially Ivo and Rudy. I like Rudy for his size, hard hitting attacks, clear mind, well balanced and best of all being social yet protective when need be. If anyone have a dog from these lines, let me know how your dog is at home, off the field as well as on the field. Or does anyone recommend another breeder? Thanks for your help


Rin Tin Tin doesn't exist....


Those things you want can conflict. So choose your # 1 goal (pet or working dog) and go from there.

Oh btw, you forgot to post your bio first.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Rin Tin Tin doesn't exist....
> 
> 
> Those things you want can conflict. So choose your # 1 goal (pet or working dog) and go from there.
> ...


I agree with Selena. Except lassie is available. I like the Belgian mals. I think u get a good amount of those traits In some of there dogs


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

I understand what yourr asking for. I think its easier to form a plan sport, pet or whatever. Then choose the dog accordingly. Not to say they cant do both but that depends on the dog and your level of commiment. I personally dont ask a working dog to behave a certain way in the house etc. If they dont do well in the house naturally or at least with minimum fuss then they dont come in. Many times you impose a bunch of "house rules" on a dog. Then you ask him to perform in top drive? It can create conflict. 

I suggest starting with a nice stable medium drive type dog. If you like it then work your way along. Learn how to deal with the dogs and THEN go for the gusto.
JMO
PS our loganhaus dog is a kennel dog. He does travel with me daily and is a lot of fun. I take him everywhere with me (including on and around the oil rigs.) 

Best of luck in your journey!!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Martin Doan said:


> I am looking for a Mal with extreme drives, really balanced, clear head, and strong full grips. I am interested in doing high level sports, maybe PSA, Ring, or IPO. I want a dog that is capable of this and yet can calm down in the house, social, and get along with my other (small and big) dogs. I like The dogs that LoganHaus have, especially Ivo and Rudy. I like Rudy for his size, hard hitting attacks, clear mind, well balanced and best of all being social yet protective when need be. If anyone have a dog from these lines, let me know how your dog is at home, off the field as well as on the field. Or does anyone recommend another breeder? Thanks for your help


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Good luck to ya, your going to have to give up something from your wish list, like said above Rin Tin Tin does NOT exist. If they do exist of what your asking I would love to order me a bunch of them. Anybody who says they have the perfect dog with no querks especially the mal or DS is full of it.

Oh yea do some research theres alot of good folks on here with great great dogs in the mali and DS breed.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Martin, you forgot your Bio/Intro.

http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f20/

Just PM any mod to open your thread when that's done. Thank you!




-- opened ---


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Martin's a nice guy! we train at the same club.
wow, didn't know you wanted one of "those" - that's a big switch.
be careful what you wish for! extreme drive ...i'm happy I made the switch from low drive to medium/high/strong drive. not quite ready for extreeem drives yet in this lifetime! i'm a calm person by nature and dogs that are super hyper drive me nutts. my bouncing tigger "monster" gsd pup from eurosport is wonderful, tho, he keeps me on my toes. just enough drive to keep it interesting.
welcome to the forum, there's lots to learn on here.

best wishes,
Donna


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## Martin Doan (Jul 27, 2011)

Well I have been reading in some of the threads about how some dogs have that "off" switch where they can be around kids and small dogs 15 mins after they have been doing bitework. And I also have read about some that are off the wall 24/7. I guess the intention of posting this thread was to get those that have a pup out of Ivo or Rudie from LoganHaus to tell me what their experience with the dog is off the field and in the house. 

Thanks Donna, It's just that I see all the mals in the club do so well, it looks so fun I was in on some of that action. lol


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

I have two Mals at home. One has a better off switch, but I think that is only because she is older. She has great drives when working, nice bites, and generally the biggest thing I struggle with is whether to do French Ring of SchH. She is from a Canadian breeder, but I would not recommend them based on my experiences. We originally got her as a pet, but her drive just kinda kept developing until we ended up training in SchH/FR. I'm curious to know how far I can get with her, but she is our pet first and foremost - spending her time in the house, and training a few times a week.

The pup is from De Las Flores Working Dogs in Seattle, and is from much more established working lines. We will be taking the same training philosophy with him. Although I think his potential to be a top dog is much greater than our female. 

That said, we do the sports for fun and as an outlet for the dogs to work.

Although many do not believe you can reach a true balance, I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but I don't think you could be too far off. My guys settle well, lay down and are calm in the house. They are also terrors on the field. But like I said, I'm not training 5 days a week, and I'm not looking to go to the upper levels of the sport. I'm just happy as long as they're happy.

For videos see here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RyanVenables 

Some videos are older (especially the female... she's much more polished now, and operates with more defence)

Good luck finding your balance.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Martin Doan said:


> Well I have been reading in some of the threads about how some dogs have that "off" switch where they can be around kids and small dogs 15 mins after they have been doing bitework.


Something you need to realize is that these dogs with the "off switch" aren't born that way. Not that the genetic potential isn't there at birth, but the behavior has to develop. For example my female Kita. At 3.5 she can go out on the field, work, walk off, socialize with people of all ages, dogs, etc and walk back out on the field and work again. If I had tried this at 6 months though many of those people would have been bit. At a year she was better, but there still might have been a chance of it. Not because she was so aggressive, but because she lacked discernment. That came with age and maturity. And work. And training.  By 1.5 years I could end a session by telling her to go socialize, and she'd go say "hi" to everyone and hang out. Ready to work again if the option was there, but happy to "smooze" to.

I don't think she's unique either, actually I know quite a few dogs like her. But with all of them this was developed over time. The dog has to have a naturally social personality to start with, but the turning it on and off, going from work to social setting and back to work again, that comes with age and experience, and is on you as the owner to encourage.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

Get you a kennel and put it in the backyard. Then select a nice working dog and put it in that kennel. Then get a pet quality dog. Put him in the house. Snuggle with the house dog at night and play with the real dog, I mean working dog, in the day!


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Well I have been looking and looking and looking...... I can NOT find that switch on Haiku, otherwise I would flip it. :mrgreen:

Even though Haiku won't lie down and take a nap while I watch TV, we have been able to get her to settle in the house..... better. We NEVER play with her, or train in the house. That helps her make the distinction: Turn your volume down in the house, but feel free to crank it up to 'ludacrous speed' outside.

Kids? Oh boy. She loves kids. She thinks they're delicious. I really do need to get Haiku around more kids, but I'm having trouble finding parents that will let me use theirs as bait....er, um... distractions. Plus, to train most effectively/efficiently, I need the kids to follow my directions EXACTLY. Anybody know any small kids who can do that? :lol:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I don't think the problem is just keeping them in the house - even high drive dogs can obey rules.

I think that there are problems for some people in general. These dogs are bred, or supposed to be bred, to have very fast reactions, some aggression and a naturally high energy drive.

This is by no means negative, but one has to have very fast reactions oneself.

Our younger GSD would like to attack everything around him, from insects to the deer in the park opposite to our garden. 

The only thing he loves is the human race - everything else is "bait". It can be trained but not just by exercise and trying to wear him out (a futile exercise - the more he has, the more he is ready for).

Why do I do it? I've never given up on a dog yet, and he has improved over the years......


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

sam wilks said:


> Get you a kennel and put it in the backyard. Then select a nice working dog and put it in that kennel. Then get a pet quality dog. Put him in the house. Snuggle with the house dog at night and play with the real dog, I mean working dog, in the day!


How's your working personal protection dog going to protect you in the house if he's in the kennel out back? Just curious...


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## Martin Doan (Jul 27, 2011)

Well thanks everyone for putting it into that perspective. I'll be prepared to kennel my mal when I get him. I can sacrifice him as a HOUSE house dog since I have my low drive GSD as my house dog.  But When I'm gone, I want the mal to be in the house to protect the family and not drive you nuts and tear things up. 

In my search for a Mal, there are so many breeders that claim that their dog is "great family dogs in the house AND will take you to the podium on the field". That kind of suggested that that trait was bred into them and that there are certain lines that have that off switch. I guess it's all part of their marketing. lol

BTW Nice dog you have there Ryan, looks like you'll have lots of fun training that pup. good luck
and haha kids are delicious... i like that


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> How's your working personal protection dog going to protect you in the house if he's in the kennel out back? Just curious...


remote operated doggy door???


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I agree with Gillian on the off switch. It's more about the skills of the handler and leadership issues.
I've had a number of terriers over the years. The little bassids are noted for their perpetual motion. I never did except that and expected all of mine to chill out in the house. Quick to alert on just about any sight or sound but they did settle down when told.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Martin, you absolutely can find nice high drive dogs that are clear headed and can get along with kids and be in the house, if they are trained. My dog is from Kadi's kennel and he's definitely got an off switch, but we're still able to play in a bunch of sports. Is he "extreme?" No, but you don't need "extreme" to get you a nice competitive dog either. Malinois are an extreme breed anyways and to get a truly extreme specimen from an already extreme breed usually means they're wound just a little too tight. :lol: Sometimes that ends up causing additional problems (they may be actually handler aggressive, may not want to out because they are so extremely possessive, they bark hysterically, etc), especially if they don't have a superbly level temperament to help balance out there "extremeness."

One of my favorite Dutchies is Jason F.'s Bas. Watch this video until the end.

http://youtu.be/YM8CvsRvIMI


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Urska Dolenc said:


> I would just be careful with a few things. Some of the things you desire can contradict eachother under certain circumstances. Extreme drives can also mean a certain reactive behaviour or problems staying calm in the house. I have a rottweiler male, malinois female and amstaff female, all of them living in a house. The hardest to live with is malinois. She had to learn what being calm in the house means and it took us some time to get to where she is today. She is the biggest joy on the training field but still the most cuddly in the house. But still not the easiest dog to live with.


My sentiments exactly. I too have a female mal, pitbull, and male mal pup. My female is/was the more difficult. It is only now, after 5yrs that she can be "calm" in the house. She can sometimes lose her mind a bit still, but she understands that she can't be She is a lot more relaxed, but as mentioned above, "it took us some time." Goooooood luck!


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## Irene Howcroft (Nov 13, 2010)

deleted post



Irene, we have an advertisement section. Thanks!


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

we have an IVO pup- she is just about 6 months now, so we still have a lot of socializing to do-training etc, but so far she is doing great- in her bite work, she has already transitioned to the sleeve- her bites are very good, her entry is great, she appears fearless at this point, she does stay in the house in the evening with us, but is in the kennel during the day when we are busy, she is social with all of our other dogs- loves to retrieve things, will carry metal buckets to the garden hose or her toys around. 
I would start with a quality puppy-to be able to bond with your other children and animals, but Every dog will have its own personality- with the proper training and socialization and guidance what you want can be achieved- and I feel especially with the high drive dogs-children also need to learn how to be around them and be respectful of the dog in addition to the dog being respectful and protective of the child. 
I think Logan Haus was a great fit for us...hope your search for the perfect Mal works out just as well for you 
​


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Martin Doan said:


> I'll be prepared to kennel my mal when I get him. I can sacrifice him as a HOUSE house dog since I have my low drive GSD as my house dog.  But When I'm gone, I want the mal to be in the house to protect the family and not drive you nuts and tear things up.


If you raise him in the kennel, you are going to make the whole house dog thing that much harder. Not that he can't be in the kennel some of the time, but you can't use the kennel to get through the crazy puppy stage, then plan to bring him into the house once he's an adult, and have him just automatically have that off switch you are talking about. I've converted a number of kennel raised adult working dogs to house dogs, and it takes a lot of time and patience, and frankly committment. Much better if you want the dog to be a house dog, to raise the dog in the house, with kennel time when you just don't want to deal with it anymore or are gone, etc.

But think about a dog in a kennel. Everything in their world is their's to do what they please with. Jump on and off things, chew on things, play with things, potty as needed, etc. Bring that dog into the house, and why should they think the rules are any different? 



Martin Doan said:


> In my search for a Mal, there are so many breeders that claim that their dog is "great family dogs in the house AND will take you to the podium on the field". That kind of suggested that that trait was bred into them and that there are certain lines that have that off switch. I guess it's all part of their marketing. lol


Actually there are many dogs on the podium in various sports who are also good family dogs. A few are even extreme dogs. But really many of the dogs on the podiums are not the extreme dogs that you say you want. They are enough to get the job done, but not so much that it becomes difficult to maintain the control neccessary to get to that podium. Not that extreme dogs can't be good with their family, just addressing the extreme/podium aspect of things.

And like a few other people mentioned, asking for extreme in a Malinois may be more dog that you really want or need for your situation. 

Check out this video, keeping in mind most of the footage was taken when the dog was 8 years old. This is a dog who has been a house dog her entire life, she's 12 now and my son just turned 19 so she's been around kids her whole life, she will work on a sport field or "for real" as needed, can be taken anywhere and behave appropriately around people of all ages, other animals, etc. She's only been on a couple of podiums, but if you name a venue, she's probably trained/competed in it, and that was my focus with her (lots of things) vs trying to get on a podium in any one venue. 
And I would not describe her as "extreme". High drives, yes, she's solid in all of them (prey, food, hunt, etc), but not extreme. To me, she is just what I would expect of any decent Malinois.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q0KiEPkr7k


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> One of my favorite Dutchies is Jason F.'s Bas. Watch this video until the end.
> 
> http://youtu.be/YM8CvsRvIMI


 
WOOOOOOWWWWW! That is a nice dog!=P~ The other thing I learned from that video is that

Jason + Michael = Extreme Goofballs! :lol:


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## kerry engels (Nov 7, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Martin, you absolutely can find nice high drive dogs that are clear headed and can get along with kids and be in the house, if they are trained. My dog is from Kadi's kennel and he's definitely got an off switch, but we're still able to play in a bunch of sports. Is he "extreme?" No, but you don't need "extreme" to get you a nice competitive dog either. Malinois are an extreme breed anyways and to get a truly extreme specimen from an already extreme breed usually means they're wound just a little too tight. :lol: Sometimes that ends up causing additional problems (they may be actually handler aggressive, may not want to out because they are so extremely possessive, they bark hysterically, etc), especially if they don't have a superbly level temperament to help balance out there "extremeness."
> 
> One of my favorite Dutchies is Jason F.'s Bas. Watch this video until the end.
> 
> http://youtu.be/YM8CvsRvIMI


 
One of my favorite vids!\\/


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> One of my favorite Dutchies is Jason F.'s Bas. Watch this video until the end.
> 
> http://youtu.be/YM8CvsRvIMI


Love it...very nice dog, great work and love the video edit!


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## Martin Doan (Jul 27, 2011)

Yeah that Bas video is an awesome video. I like the color on that dutchie too. 

Thanks Mo for sharing with me your experience with your Ivo pup. That helped me out a lot. I hope to stay updated on your puppy. Who is the mom of your pup? 

Thanks Kadi. I have heard a lot of good things about you and your kennel from different people from my club. I think your place in NM is within a few hours driving distance from Dallas, TX right? I'll try to visit one day. Btw nice vid Kadi. Our training director used the video of cali doing muzzle work as "this is how it should look like" videos for us. haha


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> WOOOOOOWWWWW! That is a nice dog!=P~ The other thing I learned from that video is that
> 
> Jason + Michael = Extreme Goofballs! :lol:


Yeah, when I met Bas back in May, I think I told Jason I felt like I was meeting a celebrity after seeing that video.  :lol:


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Martin Doan said:


> Thanks Kadi. I have heard a lot of good things about you and your kennel from different people from my club. I think your place in NM is within a few hours driving distance from Dallas, TX right? I'll try to visit one day. Btw nice vid Kadi. Our training director used the video of cali doing muzzle work as "this is how it should look like" videos for us. haha


Thanks  I am actually in S. California, outside of San Diego. A bunch of us drove to TX last fall for the NARA Championships at Triple Crown, and it was a 24+ hour drive. We were in an RV though, I think in a car it would have been around 20 hours?


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> To me, she is just what I would expect of any decent Malinois.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q0KiEPkr7k



wow! \\/


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Well I have been looking and looking and looking...... I can NOT find that switch on Haiku, otherwise I would flip it. :mrgreen:


That switch exists right between the ears.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> To me, she is just what I would expect of any decent Malinois.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q0KiEPkr7k


The decoy never charges the dog, would be interesting to see what happens then.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Martin, you absolutely can find nice high drive dogs that are clear headed and can get along with kids and be in the house, if they are trained. My dog is from Kadi's kennel and he's definitely got an off switch, but we're still able to play in a bunch of sports. Is he "extreme?" No, but you don't need "extreme" to get you a nice competitive dog either. Malinois are an extreme breed anyways and to get a truly extreme specimen from an already extreme breed usually means they're wound just a little too tight. :lol: Sometimes that ends up causing additional problems (they may be actually handler aggressive, may not want to out because they are so extremely possessive, they bark hysterically, etc), especially if they don't have a superbly level temperament to help balance out there "extremeness."
> 
> One of my favorite Dutchies is Jason F.'s Bas. Watch this video until the end.
> 
> http://youtu.be/YM8CvsRvIMI



Nice post Maren.... that says it all ( or at least relates exactly the experiences I have had).


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Faisal Khan said:


> The decoy never charges the dog, would be interesting to see what happens then.


Hey Faisal, she's titled to PSA 1, which they have decoy come at the dog from the lowest level at the PDC. This is one of the ways PSA is a bit different from ringsport. The first sequence and then at 1:28 and 3:53 looks like the PSA 1 courage test (has the decoy moving towards the dog tossing a bag or other distractor). Then at 3:35 is the decoy moving forward with accessories (bottle curtain). 4:19 is defense of handler from behind with accessories (rock jugs).


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Faisal Khan said:


> The decoy never charges the dog, would be interesting to see what happens then.


There are actually multiple places in the video the decoy is charging the dog. It got ugly is what happened, she didn't slow down, and the impacts weren't pretty. 

Cali was 1 month shy of her 9th birthday in the PSA trial video, 90% of the video was taken after she turned 8, by then I didn't want decoys charging her anymore, there are only so many impacts their bodies can take.



Maren Bell Jones said:


> Hey Faisal, she's titled to PSA 1, which they have decoy come at the dog from the lowest level at the PDC. This is one of the ways PSA is a bit different from ringsport. The first sequence and then at 1:28 and 3:53 looks like the PSA 1 courage test (has the decoy moving towards the dog tossing a bag or other distractor). Then at 3:35 is the decoy moving forward with accessories (bottle curtain). 4:19 is defense of handler from behind with accessories (rock jugs).


I'd have to rewatch the video for exact times, but you are right that there are a number of clips from her PSA1 trial on there. Most of it is training FR decoys on upper body techniques, some is just screwing around in training, some is prepping for PSA, the PSA1 trial and some footage from another protection dog competition.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Just for discussion sake, is it still asking for Rin Tin Tin if you request a dog with "good enough" drive for work/competition, a reasonably social nature (around humans & dogs) either "cool around people" or "enough to be trained to be non-reactive in normal off-field interactions" to build upon or at least live with, good work ethic, and enough smarts or self-control to learn to go into "standby" mode when in-house or told to chill and still maintain drive/desire for working when outside, at the field, when they see an agitator, strange guy breaking-in, etc., etc.?

I know they are not going to turn into Goldens, and a dog that is genetically programmed to be a high-energy dog with natural aggression you are probably always going to have to take certain precautions. However, some seem to have (or at least say they have) dogs, including Malinois, that do pretty well in the house, presumably learning to have barriers and rules, yet have their outlets with training and exercise, and do well on-the-field. Some would probably be too sharp for that (funny stories abound of Malinois being in-house, somebody comes over, slaps owner on the shoulder and dog thinks "aha! Defense of handler!" and owner has to quickly "down" the dog), but there are those stories of people that are able to make it work that seem to creep into these types of threads. At least on the surface, it sounds like a dog on the more social side of the breed, maybe nice-but-moderate drive, and of the more clear-headed and maybe a less reactionary disposition relative to the type of dog we are talking about should be able to adapt with proper training, outlets to direct the drive that makes them working dogs in the first place, and maybe something to chew on when they are in the house and you're typing on the Working Dog Forum.

If I'm still thinking in Disney terms, let me know. It just seems like that is kind of what happens at least some of the time.

I'd also be curious, is Bas normally a house dog, or just in there for the video or if he just occasionally pops in the house? It's a cool video regardless and even if he was pretty much a kennel dog it is nice to see such a positive interaction between the dog and their son from a nice working dog.

-Cheers


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> There are actually multiple places in the video the decoy is charging the dog. It got ugly is what happened, she didn't slow down, and the impacts weren't pretty.


Dont ya love it when the dog decides to forget its targeting ?

Loved that gut shot LOL....and luckily the couple high center ones didn't happen on a jacket with a v neck


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

@Faisal - No thanks! I like my Kookoo monster. I have been able to _train_ better 'settleage,' I don't need to play whack-a-mole. Plus I own and use a Kennel. It's great.

I'm mostly joking about Haiku. She's pretty social, but being out of Ludo, she has an edge to her. She's a hair reactive and we don't have kids, so running- screaming-midgets look like fun to chase and latch on to. She's a surge-toward-the-thing-that's-bothering-me kind of dog.

Another factor to consider is what sport you want to play and how.....
Guys like Faisal want a serious dog - REAL aggression - the fight is with the man, not the equipment. Not that there's anything wrong with that! I get it.... But, in this case, you would probably have some trouble making your dog real social. Not that the dog is incapable of being social, but because of how it interperets and has been trained to react to pressure. If you train your dog in defense (using pressure from the helper to make your dog react) at all, and your dumb ass neighbor comes over and bends down to bear-hug your dog, it's likely to take your neighbor's face off. 

Faisal, do you let Gnash roam free during dinner parties? 

So, a huge part of what your asking in terms of being social has to do with training plus temperament just like everything else in the dog world. A medium-drive dog with a lot of pressure training put on it probably won't do so well at the Christmas gathering... Or whatever it is that you have people over for. PC.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

David Ruby said:


> I'd also be curious, is Bas normally a house dog, or just in there for the video or if he just occasionally pops in the house? It's a cool video regardless and even if he was pretty much a kennel dog it is nice to see such a positive interaction between the dog and their son from a nice working dog.


I don't know about Bas.

Pi - Michael E.'s dog is a house dog MR3.

Jackson - Donna Matey's dog MR3 and FR3 is a house dog.

I believe Ivan's competition dogs have been house dogs.

JJ Belcher's dog Pyton IPO3 (multi) is a house dog.

Ioscani's dog Dakota, FR3, IPO (just started his career), MR3 AND COMPAGNE tilted is a house dog.

Anyone else have a high-level dog as a house dog?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

> Anyone else have a high-level dog as a house dog?


Mac - FRIII full time house dog, loose in bedroom when I'm gone
Cali - FRII, PSA1 and a slew of other titles full time house dog, loose in bedroom when I'm gone
Chaos - FRIII was an indoor/outdoor dog, only because she didn't get along with a couple of the other females in the house, she's now a full time house dog in her retirement home
Enzo - FRIII (deceased) house dog with kennel time when I was at work
JaJa - SchIII house dog with kennel time when I was at work
Raptor - FRIII house dog when he lived with me, kennel dog/house dog with prior owners
The list gets a lot longer if I start adding dogs with lower level titles.

And all of them were living with a child.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

David Ruby said:


> Just for discussion sake, is it still asking for Rin Tin Tin if you request a dog with "good enough" drive for work/competition, a reasonably social nature (around humans & dogs) either "cool around people" or "enough to be trained to be non-reactive in normal off-field interactions" to build upon or at least live with, good work ethic, and enough smarts or self-control to learn to go into "standby" mode when in-house or told to chill and still maintain drive/desire for working when outside, at the field, when they see an agitator, strange guy breaking-in, etc., etc.?


I don't think so...that's what I asked for, that's basically what I got. Now having said that, as my dog is lacking 3 years of foundation, I don't think he'll be a national podium level dog soon if ever (especially if I can't get decoys to work my dog enough). But he's competitive in dock diving, can do the work in PSA, and maybe some day we'll get serious about herding again. 



> I know they are not going to turn into Goldens, and a dog that is genetically programmed to be a high-energy dog with natural aggression you are probably always going to have to take certain precautions. However, some seem to have (or at least say they have) dogs, including Malinois, that do pretty well in the house, presumably learning to have barriers and rules, yet have their outlets with training and exercise, and do well on-the-field. Some would probably be too sharp for that (funny stories abound of Malinois being in-house, somebody comes over, slaps owner on the shoulder and dog thinks "aha! Defense of handler!" and owner has to quickly "down" the dog), but there are those stories of people that are able to make it work that seem to creep into these types of threads. At least on the surface, it sounds like a dog on the more social side of the breed, maybe nice-but-moderate drive, and of the more clear-headed and maybe a less reactionary disposition relative to the type of dog we are talking about should be able to adapt with proper training, outlets to direct the drive that makes them working dogs in the first place, and maybe something to chew on when they are in the house and you're typing on the Working Dog Forum.
> 
> If I'm still thinking in Disney terms, let me know. It just seems like that is kind of what happens at least some of the time.


Indeed, both my Mals are asleep at my feet as I type (and the 12 year old Rottie, but that's a given). I am glad that I don't have a firebreather who was super civil/reactive or dock diving competitions would be really difficult. Most of the dock diving people are lab people with NO sense of space bubbles. One guy I know at the trial last weekend is a lab person and tried to get right up in his face even after I told him not to. He's like, "oh, he's okay, he'll just lick me." I had to tell him no, he's protection trained and I don't want you to get licked by his teeth.  Ugh, lab people. ;-)



> I'd also be curious, is Bas normally a house dog, or just in there for the video or if he just occasionally pops in the house? It's a cool video regardless and even if he was pretty much a kennel dog it is nice to see such a positive interaction between the dog and their son from a nice working dog.
> 
> -Cheers


Jason said he was, but he's on this forum as well, so I'm sure you could ask for details.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


> Dont ya love it when the dog decides to forget its targeting ?


LOL The problem was her FR training, it really doesn't translate that well to a sport that presents a target and doesn't esquive. She's to programmed to look for esquives and counter them, so a little twitch or perceived change of direction and she'd change her target, even though the decoy had no intentions of esquiving.



> Loved that gut shot LOL....and luckily the couple high center ones didn't happen on a jacket with a v neck


LOL Yeah. At least she didn't have many teeth left at that point, most of them were wore down to nothing from years of tennis ball abuse. And one canine was gone, she shattered her upper jaw on a Sch long bite (still bit though), and lost the canine in the process.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

"Get you a kennel and put it in the backyard. Then select a nice working dog and put it in that kennel. Then get a pet quality dog. Put him in the house. Snuggle with the house dog at night and play with the real dog, I mean working dog, in the day"

nice thought. I do that with mine - but it's the SAME dog. ha ha.
conversion of kennel dog to house dog - 2 months.
first day - could not get thru night in crate
2nd month - loose in bedroom, promptly wakes me up at 6am to go outside by politely nudging me with his nose.
still working on whose property is whose (his is a chew bone, mine is everything else)
not sure this would work with kids - as he is quite the tornado upon coming into the house at first.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> "Get you a kennel and put it in the backyard. Then select a nice working dog and put it in that kennel. Then get a pet quality dog. Put him in the house. Snuggle with the house dog at night and play with the real dog, I mean working dog, in the day"
> 
> nice thought. I do that with mine - but it's the SAME dog. ha ha.
> conversion of kennel dog to house dog - 2 months.
> ...


mal or gsd?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

[

Anyone else have a high-level dog as a house dog?[/QUOTE]

sure here


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Cali was 1 month shy of her 9th birthday in the PSA trial video, 90% of the video was taken after she turned 8, by then I didn't want decoys charging her anymore, there are only so many impacts their bodies can take.


Wow, she deserves a BIG b-day cake with a ribeye on top! Lovely video with matching music.


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