# Raw Diets - (Beginner's) Questions / Discussion



## Dan Thi

I have some general questions about Feeding Raw Diets. I have been doing some research/reading and was hoping someone can confirm some of the things I have read;

A Raw Diet Should Be Fed in This Ratio (or Close to it): 
80% Meat - 10% Bone - 10% Organ

Each Feeding Amount is calculated by; 
3-4% of Dogs Bodyweight? 
(I.e.: A 100lb dog eats 3-4 lbs for the Entire day, which can be split up into multiple feedings (puppy) or one-or-two (adult)?)

This may be debatable, but do You feed your Adult One or Two meals a Day? What do you find are the advantages or disadvantages to this?

-And for Puppies, two or three meals a day?

How often do you purchase Raw Food for your Puppies/Dogs - Weekly? Bi-weekly? Monthly and Freeze it? 

What is your opinion on supplements and do you give your dog any? (if so how much and how often?) (I.e.: Apple Cider Vinegar, Kefir, Kelp, Coconut Oil, Fish Oil, Calcium? How about other things like Bone Support Supplements or Glutamine Products?)

For those of you that live in Canada, or Ontario (Canada) - can you guys recommend any places where you can buy CLEAN(No grain fed - organic) Raw Food (maybe in Bulk) at Fair Prices? If you live else - some general places you may recommend, like a butcher shop maybe?
(I have been looking around and calling some local farmers who seem to have prices much better than at the local Grocery Store - which is nice because I might even get myself some nice Sirloin to BBQ. :smile: :lol


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## Gina Mezin

I don't know too much about it, but I hope you get some good info here. 

As for me, two of my dogs love raw chicken legs and they keep their teeth clean. I don't feed beef bones because I worry that they will wear their teeth down. I'm kinda weird that way, probably most raw feeders do feed beef bones. It's too expensive for me to feed all raw and I do feel that feeding kibble keeps me safer about providing all the required nutrients, because I don't care to work too hard making sure they have a perfectly balanced meal. I definitely believe it can be bad to mix kibble and raw at the same time. I have experienced throwing up on more than one occasion when feeding kibble and raw too close together. Feeding my adults two meals (one raw, one kibble and or canned) about 10 hours apart works fine for them. I tried adding different organ meats in the past, but two of my dogs didn't like the taste of liver unless it was cooked. Just wanted to share my tiny bit of experience.


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## shelle fenton

This may be debatable, but do You feed your Adult One or Two meals a Day? What do you find are the advantages or disadvantages to this?
_older and younger, daily amount with more meals. Reason less able to regulate sugar levels in young/old age. Easier on digestive system._ 

-And for Puppies, two or three meals a day? _Two. Im at work all day.
_
How often do you purchase Raw Food for your Puppies/Dogs - Weekly? Bi-weekly? Monthly and Freeze it? 
Monthly: freeze it. With grabbing anything on special midweeks. 

What is your opinion on supplements and do you give your dog any? (if so how much and how often?) (I.e.: Apple Cider Vinegar, Kefir, Kelp, Coconut Oil, Fish Oil, Calcium? How about other things like Bone Support Supplements or Glutamine Products?)

Apple cider vinegar is in all dogs drinking supply. 
The supplements i add, are also in form of food: fish oil from fish, Calcium from bone, Kelp from kelp.


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## Patty Beck

I have been feeding raw for about 10 years or so. I feed my adult dogs 2x a day. When they were puppies I fed 3x a day. I have a meat supplier that I am very happy with. They grind in the bone and liver I add a fruit and vegetable mixture (I will try to attach my recipe) that I make myself and some kind of grain - oatmeal, noodles rice etc. I have to travel a few hours to get meat so I buy 500 pounds at a time. That will last me 6-8 weeks. I don't measure my feedings I watch body condition. I also add a good fish oil supplement to each feeding and coconut oil to the evening feeding. I also add chicken necks. I don't do larger whole bones because ICE is a gulper and I have had to pull wings etc out of his throat. Too scary for me.... 

My recipe:
Ingredients needed:
2 bags spinach
1 bag carrots
2 large bag green beans
6 bunches of celery
5-6 green peppers
6-8 sweet potatoes or 2 cans of 100% pumpkin (not pie filling)
6 bananas
6 apples or large jar applesauce
2 large cans of oranges
2 large cans pineapple (crushed)
12 eggs (shell and all)
1 whole garlic
2 large yogurt
2-3 containers of strawberries or blueberries or cranberries

I use a food processer and grind the following: 
Spinach, carrots, celery, green peppers, green beans, sweet potatoes, bananas, apples, oranges, eggs, garlic, and berries. 
I mix all of the ground fruit/veg in a very large Rubbermaid container using a potato masher. Then I add the already mashed stuff (pumpkin, applesauce, pineapple, yogurt) and mix again with the potato masher. This makes about 4-5 batches of fruit/veg mix for me. I separate into bowls and freeze them. I mix one batch at a time with the ground meat mixture. I use approximately 8 pounds fruit/veg mix with 30 pounds of meat. I use the large Rubbermaid container for this also and mix with the potato masher until the meat is all mixed in with the fruit and veg. Then I put that in containers and just scoop some out for feeding time.


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## leslie cassian

For local suppliers, try Iron Will Raw. 

https://ironwillrawdogfood.com/

There are also some pretty active Toronto based facebook groups for raw feeders where people share local sources for raw and if any stores have good sales. Stores catering to a more ethnic customer base usually have a good range of more interesting bits to feed, beyond the usual liver, kidney, heart selection of the big supermarkets.


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## Dan Thi

Thanks for sharing Gina! The breeder I'm getting my pup from is feeding an all raw diet, so I would like to continue that! I will definitely have a good talk with him, and i'll share the information I get, on here as well. 

Shelle, good point. Supplements are just that, "supplemental" - I guess if your diet is on point there would be no need to add additional nutrients in "artificial" (Not directly from food) form.
I have also read something about possibilities of Bloat with One feeding per day. (Not sure of the exact specifics, will have to look that up again.)

Patty, Thanks for sharing that! If you do not mind adding, how much you pay for 500lbs of Meat...that seems like a lot haha . And is it a Mixture of meat; chicken, beef, thripe, steak, fish etc? OR is it just one type of meat? (And just to be clear, you freeze it, and then unfreeze the portion(s) the dog will eat for the day the night before?)

It seems like a process, but the way you do it seems to make it much easier! I have read mixed things about if dogs need Carbs, or if they Need Vegetables - I guess it comes down to handler preference and how to dog reacts to eating them?

I know you don't measure the food per say, but is there some sort of guideline to follow initially? (Is the 3-4% of bodyweight a decent amount?)

As for your pup chewing/ gulping the bones (I'm not sure if this will only help with puppies), but I've seen people feed their puppies a Whole-Chicken, not cut up..... as this forces the puppy to use their teeth and chew the food (sort of like when they eat an animal in the wild.)

Leslie, cool thanks! I will check them out.


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## Patty Beck

My meat supplier is Baileys farm in Wisconsin and the price per pound is $.64. It comes in 10 pound tubes, 5 tubes to a box of 50 pounds. Yes, 500 pounds is allot but I have 2 full size freezers so I don't have to make the trip very often. It is a beef mixture. I sometimes will add chicken necks, turkey, salmon, and or sardines. 
I have many friends who do not add fruit veg or carbs. It just seems to work very well for all of my dogs. It is not terribly time consuming once you get a rhythm going. I can get 4-6 weeks worth of fruit and veg prepared in 1.5 hours. It is totally a preference whether you use them or not. 
I have had my complete diet analyzed at an independent company to be sure it meets all of my dogs nutritional requirements.


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## Matt Vandart

Here's a cool link:

http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm


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## Bob Scott

Leerburg has some excellent menus!


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## Nicole Stark

Dan, much of that is up to the individual and the dogs. It's often said that balance over time is the most important consideration for those new to raw feeding. 

The ratio of % to weight is a little higher than what I went by which was 2-3% but I prefer my dogs to be at what I consider to be a proper working weight, which tends to be leaner than most find ideal.

Have you looked into fashioning a plan after a prey model type?


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## Dan Thi

Matt Thanks for the calculator  ... I still prefer to just punch in 
(Dog weight) x (# Percentage converted in decimal form)..... I guess all the NO Calculator stuff in school has finally rubbed off on me haha.

Thanks BOB, I really like Leerburg - he has a LOT of Great Stuff. I like how he sells products, but also gives a Wealth of Free information on his site to! I don't always agree with his methods 100% (I find he still strays back to his old-school training methods from time to time, but for the most part I like him!).

Hmm Nicole, thats a really good point - Variations day to day variations are acceptable as long as over-time you are feeding a well balanced diet. Yes, I think 4% might be a little high, 2-3% does sound better. (I will see what my breeder recommends and may just follow that, his dogs look like they're doing well!)

By Prey-Model-Type do you mean the breakdown of Meat to Organ to Bone Ratios? (If so, I was thinking; Meat 80 - Organ 10 - Bone 10)

I have been reading about the differences between Prey-Model-Diets Vs. BARF-Diets, and I'm not completely sure which I would prefer (or my dog would prefer).... it may just come down to experimenting, but again, I will see what the breeder is doing and use that as a guideline.


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## Nicole Stark

Yes, that is what I meant but more literally so.

I've seen the evidence of large game wolf kills and I know by what remains that the % are fair guides but not realistic in terms of what occurs in nature.

My neighbors dog lived to be 19 on feed sack food. Sometimes raw makes a difference on life expectancy, sometimes it doesn't. Special needs dogs appear to better benefit more for more finely tuned diets than others. In fact, those with chronic conditions can be majorly impacted by an improved quality of life. Also, I've noticed that when feeding more than one dog the same raw diet, one did better than the other on it. 

Raw feeding makes sense and balance over time is the key to success; that includes lifestyle and environmental considerations as well. Analyzing what is fed to the nth degree sometimes is worth it and sometimes it's just something to talk about on social media. My experience has been that a sensible, yet balanced approach trumps excessive criticality in the end.


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## Arci Rondeau

Until recently I had a deal with a local butcher shop who supplied raw for my pup. I fed 80/10/10, which sounds technical but really I just did weekly meal preps. I weighed everything out and would package into freezer bags for the week.. But it varied depending on what I got from my butcher. Some days he had a chicken quarter in AM, then PM would be ground turkey/chicken and liver. Other weeks we got rabbit/goat/beef/venison.. It varied depending on what we could get, but our main staple due to availability is beef/chicken.
3x a day when my boy was a puppy and then 2x a day. 
I add in raw egg, whatever my butcher has at the time.. Never had a problem with raw, but I know certain dogs digest certain protein sources differently.. Best to try out one protein for a week or so and see how your pup handles it. For example, I got a hold of raw wild boar and my dog didn't handle it so well, so I gave it to a friend and her dog did just fine! 
Best is to call butcher shops and ask for scraps.. Heart, tripe, bones, etc.. Hope this helps


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