# Somebody Slapped Me Today, Dog Got Crazy



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

The scenario - My male Dutchie was in the crate. My female Dutchie was in the yard standing about 35 feet from me. A Costa Rica friend, who the dog doesn't know, comes up the walk to my house and greeted me with a handshake and slap on the back.

Out of the corner of my eye I caught my female in full charge coming to eat the guy who hit me. I know it was the hit on the back because I spent the last two plus years getting her under control with strangers. She has seen me shake hands before with no reaction.

I was able to call her off the charge and crate her. As I was putting her in the crate, I was asking myself if should praise or no praise or yell at her. I should point out that she has had some bitework training but I never trained for this situation. It was all the dog. I have no doubts with this bitch. She was coming to bite.

I could not decide instantly what action to take so I chose to do nothing but crate her.

What would you have done?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Lee I have had a similar experience with the guy who tills my farm. We great, shake hands, and HE gets ready to do the old "back slap" number. Before he did it, I cautioned him that my Giant Schnauzer would be on hom faster than a free dinner! "OH LORD!" [-X Don't go there. This is also some of the very stuff we train for...


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Lee I have had a similar experience with the guy who tills my farm. We great, shake hands, and HE gets ready to do the old "back slap" number. Before he did it, I cautioned him that my Giant Schnauzer would be on hom faster than a free dinner! "OH LORD!" [-X Don't go there. This is also some of the very stuff we train for...


I really, really, really felt like praising her. But, this is my wild thing so wasn't sure if I should encourage any more aggression than she already has in her. :smile:


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

from what you described, I would have probably done the same, put her in the crate and make no issue of it- sounds like she is the type of dog I like....and she obviously came to you when you intervened, and didn't continue to go after the guy...we train for those things to- shaking hands-saying hello allowed, touching,hitting,raising an object..you just became dog meat- my friends know, just don't cross that imaginary line/don't raise your hand to me..when the dogs are out8-[.bet the word is out around your town for the bad guys to stay away.


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## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

Just send her to me. She sounds perfect. Ignoring it is better than punishing her. You have her for PP and she showed she is willing to do the job as far as you are concerned. Give her a Costa Rican steak and be happy she didn't run the other way. If you feel ther e is an issue then train for the issue, but don't kill the dogs drive and desire to defend you.


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## Curtis McHail (Nov 7, 2009)

Gotta be careful!!! My grandfather had a Dobermann when I was a kid...his friend came over one day and did the ole pat on the back and the dog opened his stomach up...Pleasant way to send a friend off! x__x

btw he had been imprinted for Sch, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't titled.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Curtis McHail said:


> Gotta be careful!!! My grandfather had a Dobermann when I was a kid...his friend came over one day and did the ole pat on the back and the dog opened his stomach up...Pleasant way to send a friend off! x__x
> 
> btw he had been imprinted for Sch, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't titled.



I watch both of them at all times. That's how I spotted her on the move. The sire's breeder once told me I need eyes in the back of my head. I paid attention!!


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Mo Earle said:


> from what you described, I would have probably done the same, put her in the crate and make no issue of it- sounds like she is the type of dog I like....and she obviously came to you when you intervened, and didn't continue to go after the guy...we train for those things to- shaking hands-saying hello allowed, touching,hitting,raising an object..you just became dog meat- my friends know, just don't cross that imaginary line/don't raise your hand to me..when the dogs are out8-[.bet the word is out around your town for the bad guys to stay away.


I've been working hard, Mo. I turned and pointed at her, which is her signal to stop. She stopped dead in her tracks and sat half way to her target. #-o


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## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

I deliberately trained my dog not to do this, when not 'working' he will be watchful - I can even playfight with people, practice martial arts etc. without him reacting.

I have taught him that I will handle any situation, if I need him all I have to do is look or call and he'll be there. In training he knows that he is working - is allowed to bite a threat. But I don't personally need or want a dog who makes a decision to bite.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Tanith Wheeler said:


> I deliberately trained my dog not to do this, when not 'working' he will be watchful - I can even playfight with people, practice martial arts etc. without him reacting.
> 
> I have taught him that I will handle any situation, if I need him all I have to do is look or call and he'll be there. In training he knows that he is working - is allowed to bite a threat. But I don't personally need or want a dog who makes a decision to bite.


What if someone knocks you out! Your dog is just going to sit there? The chances of any of us needing a PPD are remote. We are playing "what if".  I probably travel in some areas, in this country, where I a dog like that could possibly be important.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

_"I have taught him that I will handle any situation, if I need him all I have to do is look or call and he'll be there"

_Lee -exactly what I say- what if you get knocked out, or are surprised attacked and can't look or call?....:-&I am glad you are happy with that response for your dog,but I will take Lee's girl and keep mine:grin:


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Mo and Lee , I agree. As long as the call off is good then I'll make the decission to call the dog off. If I can't call the dog off (I'm knocked out) then the dog needs to bite.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

It's one of those tough situations for those "not in the know". The dog did what it was supposed to do; up to and including the call off. While crating may be the safe thing, the dog deserves an atta boy.

One of my most embarrassing momemts (among many) was when I was stationed in Germany. I was at Sembach Air Base. A local shepherd had an agreement with the Air Force to allow his sheep to graze on the lush grassy areas along side the runway and taxiways. On occasion his flock would work their way down toward the kennel area. He had 3 GSD's that tended the flock. Two of them stayed with the flock, one of them stayed by his side and would be sent out on occasion for the renegade sheep or whatever. One day, when his flock brought him by the kennel, he and I were standing talking and enjoying the day. He commented on our dogs, who of course were raising cain in the kennel at the sight of the sheep and other dogs. We probably spoke for at least an hour. His dog, laying quietly at his feet during the whole time. As I was leaving to go to a meeting, I reached out and patted him on the shoulder. It was a very stupid thing to do. He gave the dog a command and laid the staff he was holding between the dog's head and the exposed underside of my right bicep. As the reality of what could have happened hit me, I just kind of shook my head and said; that was pretty stupid. The shepherd looked at me and said: how long did you say you've been working with dogs?

DFrost


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Mo Earle said:


> _"I have taught him that I will handle any situation, if I need him all I have to do is look or call and he'll be there"
> 
> _Lee -exactly what I say- what if you get knocked out, or are surprised attacked and can't look or call?....:-&I am glad you are happy with that response for your dog,but I will take Lee's girl and keep mine:grin:


I said it before. I live in the safest place here than I ever lived in anywhere. But that is not the norm for CR. Armed robbery, home invasions, petty and violent crime and carjackings are prevalent in many areas. Car theft is almost a national pastime. I have to go to the bad areas at times.

I have taken all the precautions when I travel to those areas. I have 2 car alarm systems. One is a GPS locate system. I don't wear nice clothes or jewelry. 

One dog is in the car when I park and one is with me. Could someone shoot the dogs? Sure they can. It is all just delay tactics if they really want the car or my wallet. I'm just hoping they choose a easier target.

Oh yeah, I will keep my dog! :razz:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I would have praised the dog big time myself. The last act she performed was the call off and that is what I would be praising her for.....as in "Thank god you stopped". LOL But I am not a trainer.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I would have praised the dog big time myself. The last act she performed was the call off and that is what I would be praising her for.....as in "Thank god you stopped". LOL But I am not a trainer.


I understand what you are saying, Don. If it was my male I would have reacted differently. This bitch "lights up" so easily I did not know quite how I should handle it.

The call off was perfect. One step and her ass was on the ground.


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## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

I would have a tear in my eye like my dog just graduated harvard. lol great story.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

This is what you wanted, trained for and need for your living situation today.
With your control she done good!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Lucky your in CR if the dog did bite nothing would prolly happen. If you were here I would sugest get another dog so you have 2X the chance of getting sued. Having a dog that bites is risky hopefully any one that has one is able to field all the things that can happen in day to day life. Just hope you all never have a heart attack.  Prolly better chance of that happening than needing the dog to bite someone. That is of corse unless your some sort of thug or undesirable.:lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Lucky your in CR if the dog did bite nothing would prolly happen. If you were here I would sugest get another dog so you have 2X the chance of getting sued. Having a dog that bites is risky hopefully any one that has one is able to field all the things that can happen in day to day life. Just hope you all never have a heart attack.  Prolly better chance of that happening than needing the dog to bite someone. That is of corse unless your some sort of thug or undesirable.:lol:


Ya know Mike, believe it or not I worry about the heart attach stuff. My family is regularly at the beach area where our businesses are located. I am here alone often for days on end.

There is one guy here that works around my house doing odd jobs. My female know and likes him. He is the only person besides family who can approach and/or handle this dog. 

If he could not be located, anyone else would have to shoot the dog to get to me.

I've tried for over two years. I can't change this dog. That is the way she is. She does not run around trying to bite people. Just don't try to mess with her.

People don't sue here. That is almost unheard of.


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## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

Yeah in a place where you need a PPD, my dog would be a liability...

Over here if he bit someone (having had bite training) I would struggle to avoid a jail sentance and he would most likely be destroyed.
Unless I had a shovel...hmmmm:-\"


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Tanith Wheeler said:


> Yeah in a place where you need a PPD, my dog would be a liability...
> 
> Over here if he bit someone (having had bite training) I would struggle to avoid a jail sentance and he would most likely be destroyed.
> Unless I had a shovel...hmmmm:-\"


I understand, Tanith. This is a different society and culture. I don't think anyone NEEDS a PPD. It is just another layer of distractions for bad dudes to deal with and pick on something easier.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

i dont really know shit about working dog training yet. i joined here because when i get my pup in the next year we will start either schutzhund or ringsport training. i've been to some clubs, read alot of stuff here and in books, and I am still learning alot, but i still dont really know shit.

however it seems like you have really good dog. she saw something out of the ordinary which she perceived as a threat, took initiative to do her job as she had been trained, and responded exactly as you wanted her too on the call off. it also seems like you know her very well and that you done a great job training her. =D> if i was in your situation and need my dog to do that i'd have given her a nice piece of tasty raw meat when i put her in the crate. ​


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

chris haynie said:


> i dont really know shit about working dog training yet. i joined here because when i get my pup in the next year we will start either schutzhund or ringsport training. i've been to some clubs, read alot of stuff here and in books, and I am still learning alot, but i still dont really know shit.
> 
> however it seems like you have really good dog. she saw something out of the ordinary which she perceived as a threat, took initiative to do her job as she had been trained, and responded exactly as you wanted her too on the call off. it also seems like you know her very well and that you done a great job training her. =D> if i was in your situation and need my dog to do that i'd have given her a nice piece of tasty raw meat when i put her in the crate. ​


There is varying opinions on this dog. I've done lots of threads on her. I love her attitude but she isn't a dog for the feint of heart. There is a great deal of liability that goes with the territory. Lawsuits are one thing but a attack on a innocent person is something else. I worked very hard to achieve to degree of reliability that I have now.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Lucky your in CR if the dog did bite nothing would prolly happen. If you were here I would sugest get another dog so you have 2X the chance of getting sued. Having a dog that bites is risky hopefully any one that has one is able to field all the things that can happen in day to day life. Just hope you all never have a heart attack.  Prolly better chance of that happening than needing the dog to bite someone. That is of corse unless your some sort of thug or undesirable.:lol:


I think it may depend on the circumstances, witnesses or not, what state, what cops and anaimal control you;re dealing with. 
When I first moved to NC I was staying at a Hotel. I was hanging around outside with the dog at my side talking with some people and a few kids petting the dog etc. This guy walk down the sidewalk toward us and out around behind me. The dog appearently was watching him the whole time. This must have offended the guy, a large guy with more muscle than brains. I didn't see what he did, but the people across from me seen it all. The guy turned toward my dog, and puffed up in an agressive manner, then stepped toward us. All I heard was his nails digging into the concrete. My dog went after him and did a very convincing hold and bark. I think this a-hole shit his pants. All he could say was " Get your dog, get your dog" I did the standard Sch 1 pick the dog up from the blind.

My dog always had an issue with people walking up behind me, this was extreme however. If I wasn't training Sch, this guy most likely would have been bitten.
Given I had several witnesses to what this a-hole did, I dout the cops or animal control would have wanted to do no more than maybe a rabbies quarenten. The guy may have tried to sue, but I would wish him alot of luck given the circumstances.
I didn't want a PPD, but it's nice to know if the need arises, my dog would most likely respond. F==K the lawyers and getting sue, if the circumstances warrent the dog to respond, the person most likely was asking for it. Now if it's a situation were no harm was intended, then I should have to pay the consequences.

I must say I do keep a sharper eye out since this happened. I really don't want my dog to bite someone, even the above mentioned A-hole, but if someone is threatening me, have at it fido.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I heard a Mo story that you tape $100 bills to you and walk the streets to see what "might" happen! Proofing the dog.....? :---)


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Howard, what can I say, other than a few people here have seen my dog work in person. I don't have any $100 bills and ran out of tape.

It so happens my dog's name is MOJO, get it right.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I heard a Mo story that you tape $100 bills to you and walk the streets to see what "might" happen! Proofing the dog.....? :---)


Ha, this is funny Howard, I don’t think you need to tape 100s to you in most area of Costa. All you have to do is jungle some change in your pocket. How you want your dog to react is all up to you. As Lee says he is in a safe area but still wants a real sharp dog. I would too if I was him and I would want three of them, I think you need more dogs Lee. Lees dog has a million % chance of take a bite justifiably over most of our dogs. And the cool thing is when he does bite the scum bag, Lee and his dogs will be looked at as doing society good. If your dog ever does take a good bite Lee, make sure you get him tested for rabies….. the person he bit I mean, I’d hate to see your dog catch something. I’m one of those looser that went on one vacation there to one town but think I’m a local… I still buy Imperial beer. 
It would be foolish for me to have a sharp dog in my life, as for that silly what happens if I’m knocked out thing I guess I will just have to live risky. 
Lee, if you want the dog that sharp than all I see is praise for a good out, and make him lay down like nothing happened and carry on with the visit. Just tell your friend to please move real slow and everything will be OK… that should make him feel real comfortable. To me there are very few situations where you should have to crate your dog especially if it is only one visitor. You sound like you got enough control over that dog to keep him out? Unless it’s the night time perimeter dogs, it be cool to hear you got a few of them too. You need more dog Lee, you need more dog.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Ha, this is funny Howard, I don’t think you need to tape 100s to you in most area of Costa. All you have to do is jungle some change in your pocket. How you want your dog to react is all up to you. As Lee says he is in a safe area but still wants a real sharp dog. I would too if I was him and I would want three of them, I think you need more dogs Lee. Lees dog has a million % chance of take a bite justifiably over most of our dogs. And the cool thing is when he does bite the scum bag, Lee and his dogs will be looked at as doing society good. If your dog ever does take a good bite Lee, make sure you get him tested for rabies….. the person he bit I mean, I’d hate to see your dog catch something. I’m one of those looser that went on one vacation there to one town but think I’m a local… I still buy Imperial beer.
> It would be foolish for me to have a sharp dog in my life, as for that silly what happens if I’m knocked out thing I guess I will just have to live risky.
> Lee, if you want the dog that sharp than all I see is praise for a good out, and make him lay down like nothing happened and carry on with the visit. Just tell your friend to please move real slow and everything will be OK… that should make him feel real comfortable. To me there are very few situations where you should have to crate your dog especially if it is only one visitor. You sound like you got enough control over that dog to keep him out? Unless it’s the night time perimeter dogs, it be cool to hear you got a few of them too. You need more dog Lee, you need more dog.


 When are you come back here, Chris. I'm about 45 miles northeast in the mountain range you were looking at from "your town" Nosara. I'm waiting till noon to pop open my first Imperial at the pulperia next door. They have no clue here that it's Thanksgiving. I have to celebrate alone.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

I hope (for your sake) she will react in the same way when its serious next time.......:roll::roll:

Dick


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> I hope (for your sake) she will react in the same way when its serious next time.......:roll::roll:
> 
> Dick


You know better than I, Dick. I have no doubts. :grin:

The male is no slouch either.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> When are you come back here, Chris. I'm about 45 miles northeast in the mountain range you were looking at from "your town" Nosara. I'm waiting till noon to pop open my first Imperial at the pulperia next door. They have no clue here that it's Thanksgiving. I have to celebrate alone.


Exactly why do we wait till noon? Are we trying to prove something to our self? I never understood that wait till noon before you can have a beer thing. it’s not like I can’t have orange juice after noon.
I don’t know exactly when but we will meet up this winter. I just move slow and won’t slap your back.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Exactly why do we wait till noon? Are we trying to prove something to our self? I never understood that wait till noon before you can have a beer thing. it’s not like I can’t have orange juice after noon.
> I don’t know exactly when but we will meet up this winter. I just move slow and won’t slap your back.


They have no noon hangups here. Saturdays and Sundays there are guys boozing at the pulperia at 8AM! Women drinking and smoking is a big no, no, reserved for prostitutes. 

Talk about double standard!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> They have no noon hangups here. Saturdays and Sundays there are guys boozing at the pulperia at 8AM! Women drinking and smoking is a big no, no, reserved for prostitutes.
> 
> Talk about double standard!


That’s not a double standard, it’s the right standard


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> That’s not a double standard, it’s the right standard


Do you like flame wars on Thanksgiving? :lol:

Oh I get it. You think all the WDF ladies are in the kitchen! =D>


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Do you like flame wars on Thanksgiving? :lol:
> 
> Oh I get it. You think *all the WDF ladies are in the kitchen!* =D>


 Lee what are you thinking???!!!!
This is the reason women have smaller feet, to stand closer to the kitchen counter and COOK!
:mrgreen:
Yeah baby bring it on, Howard went there!!!
Oh and I can cook too. =;


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Do you like flame wars on Thanksgiving? :lol:
> 
> Oh I get it. You think all the WDF ladies are in the kitchen! =D>


 
ehhhh, on this side of the planet we don't have thanksgiving(dinner)....

@howard:evil:

And if you send your girl away: we're first and besides....we know her character the best :-\"


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Dutch Diner! I cook and you clean............Get back with me. Drinks cost extra as we have to buy the good stuff, bottled beer! Quiet Chris McDonald..........


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> ehhhh, on this side of the planet we don't have thanksgiving(dinner)....
> 
> @howard:evil:
> 
> And if you send your girl away: we're first and besides....we know her character the best :-\"


My girl is not heading out of CR anytime soon, Selena!

As for Howard](*,)](*,)\\/ See, we guys don't always stick together! :razz:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Do you like flame wars on Thanksgiving? :lol:
> 
> Oh I get it. You think all the WDF ladies are in the kitchen! =D>


I can talk the talk here because my wife doesn’t go on this site. At least I think she never goes on this site….. Maybe she does…. And that’s why I never get laid….. Na I’m sure it’s some other reason.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> I can talk the talk here because my wife doesn’t go on this site. At least I think she never goes on this site….. Maybe she does…. And that’s why I never get laid….. Na I’m sure it’s some other reason.


Maybe it's just cause you suck at it? Sometimes the easiest answer is the most hard to swallow! lol lol lol 

I don't cook often, don't really like to a lot.....my mom made thanksgiving dinner and I cleaned up. lol 

Lee- Sounds like you have a good dog! Good Training!!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Lee, good luck with your dog - important is, it obeyed you. What happened, has something to do with the dog's nature, genetics, call it what you will. Someone told you, you need eyes in the back of your head with your dog. I'd go one step further and say any dog handler / owner needs this.

The dog has one mental advantage over us. The dog watches, observes, very often without our even realising it. David Frost's post complements this.

I know that when I joined this forum I may have narked a few people with the frequent question of why should a PPD be taught to protect / bite?

I asked this question as in my mind, I have to teach my dog to obey, if he tries to protect me in a situation that he finds threatening to me, but which really isn't. I can't know what's going on in my dogs' minds but I can watch his reactions and I can read each and every one of the dogs I've had from JRT (that we had to remove from my mother's knee so that the doctor could attend to her) to the largest, the Landseer, who grabbed hold of someone who "playingly" got hold of me.

I don't want to turn this into a PPD thread but for me, you can't *teach* a dog to protect you in all situations, especially when the threat comes as a surprise. You can train it to bite on command - but this isn't enough for me.

The breed isn't the main issue.

As for liability, I never let my dogs run around at will. I make sure they have sufficient mental and physical exercise through training. Switzerland is so tiny, if you go on a long hike, you need your passport.

Why people wonder if their dog would bite is strange for me - it's the only method it has of combating threats to itself and its owners.

They should wonder how to control its biting instincts](*,)


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Hi Gillian - Good post. What you said about a dog watches and observes hit home. This bitch, more than any dog,male or female, I ever owned is on high alert much of the time. Even if she is taking a crap her ears are erect and forward. She is aware of her surroundings at every moment.

She rarely sleeps outside of her crate. The male will sleep in the fenced area of the yard. She is awake and watching most of the time. The same goes on in the house. It isn't a nervous alert but she is ALWAYS observing her surroundings. 

I had many dogs in my 63 years. This one is a different challenge. #-o


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> Maybe it's just cause you suck at it? Sometimes the easiest answer is the most hard to swallow! lol lol lol
> 
> I accepted this one long ago


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Lee. what you said about "crapping" fits my dog, too. It's the moment when I'm most alert! His ears are also erect and trying to pick up signals which I have to try to "receive" beforehand in order to stop him reacting.

This dog, too, is never interested in the environment like the younger one, he's always listening and watching and waiting for a moment when I'm mentally "absent".


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