# What would you do?



## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

On Tuesday of this week (very hot day), I took Griffin to a small wooded park/trail about 10 mins from my house. We are there all the time. It has a very small parking lot and a nice wide gravel/dirt/stone dust path through the woods with a smaller much less used path that branches off the main path and then circles around to meet it at the end. Near the branch off is a stream that runs through culverts under the main path. There were a bunch of people in the woods on Tues, and I spoke to a young man off the main trail early in my walk. 

On my way back to the parking lot after our walk, I passed the stream again and noticed a pair of sneakers with socks in them on a rock next to the stream (I think I would have noticed them the first time I passed the stream, but I cant remember). I didnt see or hear anyone and worried a little bit about the possibility that someone might be lost etc. Then told myself that I was being fussy and I shouldnt bother someone who might be enjoying some solitude in the woods.

Well, I went back on Thurs and the sneakers were still there. I did call the park rangers (who didnt even take my name) and they said they'd send some one to check it out. I debated whether I should check out the area or not. I did walk the stream back (with Griffin) to where it intersected another stream and followed that for a while. I know I would have done that if I wasnt a SAR person, but I felt odd being part of a team and wondering if I had a legal type responsibility to not interfere? Is that weird to feel that way?


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

You did what you should have done. You called the athorities. 
Checking this out on your own could easily contaminate a possible crime scene. Even as a SAR member your job is to reply by invitation of LE. JMHO!


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Ditto what Bob said.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

One guy on the team I belonged to was training in the woods with his dog when the dog ran in a totally different direction and started a bark alert. 
As soon as the handler saw the victim from about 50-60 ft he immediately called the dog and LE. Then went back to the parking lot to wait for LE.
Turned out to be a suicide but he was smart enought to avoid the imediate area around the victim.
Well meaning but unimformed "volunteers" have screwd up/contaminated many a search area by the time legit teams are called in.


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

On the flip side, many years ago, our EMS service was requested to a rape scene. The LE on scene prevented the responders from accessing the victim to prevent contamination. Well after many minutes of sitting outside, plus response time, the LE started yelling for EMS. Turns out the victim was still alive. Her airway was occluded with socks. The victim would have most likely survived if EMS was allowed access to the victim upon arrival. 

Always make sure the victim cannot be saved, while trying your best to not disturb the crime scene.


----------



## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

And this is the dilemna--as a human being how can someone not briefly check out an area where there might be a person needing help? I dont think I could live with myself if I found out later that some guy was lying 30 feet off the path with a head injury.

As a SAR person, I can see not going near anything. Quite a dilemma morally for me.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I do understand the dilemma, because you are doing this for the *right* reasons, and your drive is to save lives, but I think Bob is right. 

If it is a public park and you are walking around in public areas, no problem with keeping your eyes open though. 

At least the odds are it is probably nothing.....I don't know how many tennis shoes I see laying around [or draped over power lines - good grief]


----------



## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

*IF* you suspect human life is in danger, crime scene preservation takes a backseat.

My understand was that part of SAR Certification included a crime scene response/preservation class.

The cardinal rules of entering a crime scene to provide life-saving aid are:

Take as direct a path as possible to the victim, mentally noting your line of travel.
Do not disturb or move anything that needn't be moved to facilitate first aid.
If you must move the victim, mentally note (or photograph if time permits) the location and position of the victim upon your arrival.
REMEMBER which shoes you are wearing. It may be necessary later to exlude your footprints forensically. (This is rare, but it does happen in limited cases.)

I think you did the right thing in this instance, since there were no signs of distress or struggle, just someone's shoes neatly left on a rock.

More than likely, they took them off to wade, and got their feet muddy. Since their feet were dirty, they didn't want to put their socks and shoes back on, and they hopped in their vehicle, forgetting them on the rock.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I understand the rules of entering a crime scene but does a pair of sox and shoes indicate a crime scene and how do you "take as direct a path as possible to the victim" if you have no idea where or IF there is actually a victim. 
I was involved in a number of crime scenes during my time with SAR. We even gave samples of all the dog's hair because one scene involved a dog so I do understand your thoughts.
In the not so nice area I used to live I mowed all the parks. Can't tell you all the different articles of clothing that jamed up the tractor blades. Mostly different colored t-shirts. Ask any cop why! :-D 
With the tall weed/grass, the neighborhood and my SAR background it freaked me out the first time or two. :lol: 
I still think your making the call was the most responsable thing to do given the circumstances. :wink:

Nancy, the tennis shoes draped over the power lines was another common sighting in the old hood. There is some significance to that also.  :grin:


----------



## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

Yeah, we have the occasional tennis shoe over the power lines too (so Bob, what is the significance??? I just thought is was good aim!)

I am not so bothered by the random bits of clothing in the woods (tho I do wonder how people manage to lose clothes out there.....)--but the neatly placed sneakers, set carefully on a rock, socks tucked inside.. with no one around really bothered me (still does--I guess one of those little mysteries we never get to solve)

I cant imagine that this situation falls into 'crime scene'. I dont even know if/when authorities checked out the area. If there was no active Missing Persons case, I cant see too much urgency on their part. The person answering the phone didnt even ask my name....

I havent been up since Thurs--I hope the rangers came and checked the area and took the sneakers......


----------

