# Chicken allergy and eggs.



## Lucia Papp (Apr 21, 2012)

I suspect my raw-fed GSD might have a chicken allergy that is making him very itchy. So he is off chicken for now to see if he will improve, but wondering if raw eggs are still okay? Or are the proteins in a chicken egg similar to chicken protein and create the same problems?


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## Jane Jean (Sep 18, 2009)

I wouldn't feed eggs either if you are thinking chicken is causing the sensitivity. Though many dogs are itchy when the daylight hours change, coat blow begins. 
My three GSD's have started itching within the last month and the humidity level, diet and other factors haven't changed/just the daylight length. Tumeric(human grade supplement) added to the food/crack open the capsule may help, it is a natural antihistamine as well as vitamin C. 
I hope it isn't a food sensitivity, chicken is the cheapest/ easiest bones to feed!


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## Lucia Papp (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks Jane! I'm getting conflicting feedback on the egg vs. chicken protein thing. 

Up until recently, I though Gryff's itchiness was environmental, but it just dawned on me that his coat was beautiful and pristine through the winter, but gets more itchy in the spring/summer. Considering how dry the air is in the winter, it didn't make sense - but then I usually have my freezer full of game from my hunter friends over the fall/winter. Then I feed mostly chicken when that source of meat is gone, as you pointed out, it is the most affordable thing to feed when on a barf diet. 

So cutting out chicken for now to see if he improves.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lucia Papp said:


> I suspect my raw-fed GSD might have a chicken allergy that is making him very itchy. So he is off chicken for now to see if he will improve ....


Do you know that a food allergy is by far the least likely of these to be the culprit?

#1 by far: flea saliva allergy (flea saliva dermatitis, flea hypersensitivity ... lots of names)

#2 environmental/inhalant

Food is so far behind these two that nothing but a huge kibble industry pushing "hypoallergenic" dog foods could have ever turned it into the first guess when a dog develops itchiness.

Food is the cause of less than 10% of dogs' true allergies.

And if it IS food, there is one way only to identify it: a strict elimination diet.

It's true that chicken protein (along with the other most-often-fed proteins) is high on the allergy list if it's a food allergy, but getting to it being a food allergy at all is the dicey part.

_
"more itchy in the spring/summer"_

Yes, spring and summer are the worst allergy times. Dogs have most of the same environmental allergies that people have, and when people start sneezing and getting itchy eyes (because their histamine receptors are mostly in their mucus membranes), dogs itch (because their histamine receptors are mostly in their skin).

Fleas too proliferate in the warm months.

I think you were probably right when you were thinking environmental, unless you are seeing the body geography of classic flea sensitivity. (Remember, you do not have to see fleas, people do not have to be being bitten, and you can have the dog on a flea topical ... and still see terrible flea reactions. A dog who is allergic to flea saliva can go crazy with itch on one exposure.)

If you list the exact body geography of the worst of the biting and scratching, I can help point you in general directions.

Also, is the scratching bad enough to break skin? Is it worse at certain times of day? (We already know it's seasonal.) Does it interrupt his sleep? 

How do the insides of his ears look (with a flashlight)? Any inflammation or detritus?





PS
GP vets know very little about allergies, unless they specialized. Derm is a specialty for a reason: it's a huge topic. GP vets are as likely as not to offer a waiting-room food and Prednisone, IME, and nothing to help diagnose or to treat allergies. And again, it's not their job, really. It's a derm issue, and a derm vet, if you can't get the dog relief on your own, is the person to see. The alternative is to pour money down the GP vet black hole and THEN see a derm vet, many dollars and much misery and frustration later. JMO!

But you can try a lot on your own first. (One thing NOT to do is to waste exotic meats on a sloppy elimination diet, because the ingredients have to be novel to the individual dog [he has never eaten them]. Always reserve a couple of available protein sources for this eventuality.)





And yes, an individual can be allergic to chicken and not eggs. Again, though, a strict elimination is the only way to pin down the offending foods.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

If you are removing chicken from the diet and they were the main RMBs, don't forget that you have to replace the lost calcium from those RMBs.

That is, if the diet has become mainly boneless from removing RMBs, you need to add back the now-missing calcium. The easiest way is ground eggshell, but all it takes is about a half-teaspoon of ground shell (about 900 mg calcium) per pound of boneless food. 

(As an aside, you can see from this that giving lots of eggs with shells is an overload of calcium; one large shell provides about 1800 mg of calcium, or enough calcium to cover about two pounds of boneless food.)


This is not a puppy, right?


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## Lucia Papp (Apr 21, 2012)

Connie - thanks so much for the reply. 

At this point, you are right, I am guessing as to what it could be. One thing I know that it is not, is a flea allergy. I live in Northern BC where it is too cold and too dry for fleas, thank goodness! 

Gryff is four years old, has been weened onto raw, and has been raw fed since then. You are right, the Chicken was his main source or RMB's, and taking it out is going to eliminate almost all the bone in his diet. So what I am doing for now, is switching him to a high-quality Salmon LI kibble. "Go" from Epicurean - a small Canadian company, not sure if their products are available in the States. 

Here, this time of year, there is still a good two feet of snow everywhere, and temps are still dipping below freezing at night, creeping up a few degrees above freezing during the day. Still a good six weeks before molds and pollens fly. Yet the itching has been back with a vengeance. 

Don't know if where he itches makes a difference, but he scratches himself almost exclusive around the shoulder blades, causing noticeable damage to his coat. A dark sable, he has half moons of undercoat sticking out where the top-hairs have been damaged from the itiching. 

Here is a picture of him in good condition, pic taken in end of October, when moose and deer was the staple in the house thanks to hunting season.










Here he was a few months earlier, the area behind his shoulder blades so scratched out. You can see the colour change of the damaged coat:









(First time on a hidden sleeve and decoy is grimacing because Gryff wrenched his shoulder - sorry, gotta brag!).

He does shake his head some and scratches at his ears some - we have had yeast in the past that was treated with anti-fungal ear-drops. Right now, his ears are clean and no smell, so if there is yeast, it is very minimal. I just do some occasional ear cleaning, not wanting to make things worse by over-cleaning. 

I'm with you with the vet situation - I'm in a small town, a full day's drive from any major population center, so finding a derm vet would be like 12 hr drive away. 

Its just that it dawned on me that in the middle of the winter, where due to the cold (it can get down to -40) and constant heating the air is dry as sahara dust, his coat is lush, full, and no itching (coincides with lots of free venison in the freezer), and when that runs out, then chicken is the mainstay of his diet, with a few other protein sources for variety. 

So not sure if my logic is logical, but just trying to find answers. 

I know when I first went to see a vet about allergies, his first question was if Gryffon licks his feet a lot - the answer is no. I take it that is a common manifestation of allergies?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes, where it is on the body (the geography of the itch) usually gives clues. 

And yes, virtually all dog allergies can (and very often do) present with itchy paws. Itchy paws can cross all the lines from fleas (no matter where the actual exposure was) to atopy to true food allergy (as opposed to food sensitivity or intolerance). So can ear infections.

Yeast very often "comes with" allergies, too. 

But ..... this is not a typical allergy itch geography, if the shoulder blade itch isn't accompanied by backbone or shin or base-of-tail (or even belly or muzzle) itch.

When you feed lots of venison, is he still getting chicken, but just much less?

Have you had scrapings done for external parasites? 

Can you see down to the skin? Is it bumpy at all? Scaly? Any rash or pustules? Does the skin look dry and flaky? Or even greasy or waxy (yeast)?

Is this on both sides? I'm asking that because a dog will dig at, scratch at, and lick areas of pain.

Are you giving fish oil (and Vitamin E)? How much does he get? 

Is the scratching disturbing his sleep or does it pretty much stop at night? Is he breaking skin with his scratching?

Is this the first time, or did this happen last spring/summer too? If so, when did the itching slack off?




ETA
I'm not a health professional.


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## Lucia Papp (Apr 21, 2012)

Connie Sutherland said:


> When you feed lots of venison, is he still getting chicken, but just much less?


Still getting some, for variety, but a lot less. 



> Have you had scrapings done for external parasites?


No. What type of external parasites would present like this? 

As an interesting note to muddy the waters, I've noticed my rottie mix scratching at the shoulder blade area too, in the last few weeks. Never had any coat/skin issues in her life (she is 9 now). But not so much that her coat is affected by it. 



> Can you see down to the skin? *No.* Is it bumpy at all? *No.* Scaly? Any rash or pustules? Does the skin look dry and flaky? *No, no, and no. * Or even greasy or waxy (yeast)? *Yes, last summer his coat felt greasy/waxy. But since the winter with his coat improving, no: nice slick top coat, soft, fluffy undercoat. *





> Is this on both sides? I'm asking that because a dog will dig at, scratch at, and lick areas of pain.


Yes, but the left side is worse. 



> Are you giving fish oil (and Vitamin E)? How much does he get?


When I remember to. Not very regularly. Salmon/fish oil 4000mg with 400iu of Vit. E every few days. 



> Is the scratching disturbing his sleep or does it pretty much stop at night?


At its peak, last summer, it was disturbing his sleep. So far this year, no, it's not that bad - but bad enough that the coat damage has started. Hoping to no repeat last year's issues. 


> Is he breaking skin with his scratching?


No. 



> Is this the first time, or did this happen last spring/summer too? If so, when did the itching slack off?


Gryff went through this last spring/summer. At first, I thought it was from being wet and dirty a lot, as the thaw is extended, and mud/melt water puddles abound. Can't really avoid it until all the snow is gone, and the ground dries up. But it did not get any better, only worse. 

Really would like to not have him go through that again. 



> ETA
> I'm not a health professional.


No worries - I'm active on other dog forums, I understand that people try to help to the best of their ability based on their level of experience, and the responsibility to follow a line of action is mine and mine alone. I appreciate your help, questions, talking it out, can help pinpoint something that I've been missing.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

The biggest thing here for me, that leaps off the page, is that a second dog is now affected. That narrows the choices rather than muddying the field, I think. 

I'd want scrapings done, and this is something your regular GP vet can easily do.

The list of external parasites includes Cheyletiella mites, which doesn't always have the "dandruff" appearance that gives it the nickname of "walking dandruff." On dogs, they trigger itch and irritation on the back, some hair loss, possibly scales, and possibly some skin thickening. Lice (pediculosis), too, which are transferred from dog to dog and are not always easy to see, and most commonly cause a poor, dry coat with hair loss and itch.

I'm not very up on what external parasites are where you are (or on external parasites, period), but you have a dog presenting with symptoms that would make me want a scraping, and now a second dog who may have the same thing. This makes scrapings the first thing on my list, probably, if I had this going on. At least I'd call the regular vet and discuss scrapings. (It's a simple procedure, sometimes done with a dull blade like a butter knife to get the top layer onto a slide, and sometimes with a sort of sticky tape.)

All JMO!

I hope you'll keep us posted.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Lucia
the advice you are getting is great
- i just want to look at another perspective...grooming in general

of course the season changes bring coat changes; the bigger the bigger 
what is your normal grooming procedure ? brushing only ? some occasional bathing ? what kind of soap/shampoo/rinses, etc ?

i have posted this before but i am a HUGE fan of FREQUENT blow grooming with a large type blower ... i use a Force Metro blaster (like for m/c's but great for canines) with a tapered nozzle to pinpoint where i want the air ...i will blow using a rake and it eliminates 95% of any further brushing and the loose hair, dirt and dust flies off. of course it dries fur to the skin VERY fast too
- EVERY dog i have used this on has improved in all areas. i won't say it will blow off all ticks/mites, etc., but i do think it comes close 

absolute best grooming gear i ever bought, and i only use a shampoo if my dogs get in some really nasty stuff

of course it won't kill parasites but will DEF help any dog, especially one with skin/fur issues

i will tell clients to brush their dogs out as good as they can before they come over ... when they get here i hit it with the blower and the fur flies as if they never used a brush ... instant converts 

toweling off a drenched dog is a waste of time imo 

i've even had dogs who were prone to belly rashes that never had any re-occurrences after they started getting their "daily blow jobs"
... i'd better stop here //lol//


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