# Leg Bites



## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

I would like to hear opinions from experts on this board or others with experience on the proper manner in which to train a dog leg bites. I think that this type of training is necessary in some protection sports that make biting the arms almost impossible due to constant movement and lack of presentation. 

Thanks for your help in advance!!!:lol:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mari Steward said:


> I would like to hear opinions from experts on this board or others with experience on the proper manner in which to train a dog leg bites. I think that this type of training is necessary in some protection sports that make biting the arms almost impossible due to constant movement and lack of presentation.
> 
> Thanks for your help in advance!!!:lol:


Experts...shoot you've got them here! :lol: Others...I can step up. You're right it should be a target, as should the arms and upper body. The way we do it is starting with a large tube tug. One end is attached to the foot and the other held in your hand. The puppy or dog should bite with the eyes facing out. 

Just like with the sleeve bites, slip and wins are the foundation to bite development. I don't subscribe to any overhead decoy pressure at first. The decoy BETTER wear a cup to prevent upper transfer bites and be mindful of hand bite scenarios. As the animal gets better with the bites, you can use leg sleeves, then the bite suit. 

On the bite suit, your handler had better know the dog, you better know the handler. Safety, safety, safety.


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

I admit that when working a dog on the legs I still don't enjoy the idea of a foot bite! We have a pup that sometimes hits a bit low and man o man I just curl my toes inside and keep moving! Cup usage was in another post that Howard started I believe. I figure if you don't want to wear one then your just asking for a defunct sex life for a while! It will happen at some point, transfer bite, bad targeting, slow decoy! #-o


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Experts...shoot you've got them here! :lol: Others...I can step up. You're right it should be a target, as should the arms and upper body. The way we do it is starting with a large tube tug. One end is attached to the foot and the other held in your hand. The puppy or dog should bite with the eyes facing out.
> 
> Just like with the sleeve bites, slip and wins are the foundation to bite development. I don't subscribe to any overhead decoy pressure at first. The decoy BETTER wear a cup to prevent upper transfer bites and be mindful of hand bite scenarios. As the animal gets better with the bites, you can use leg sleeves, then the bite suit.
> 
> On the bite suit, your handler had better know the dog, you better know the handler. Safety, safety, safety.


That is great advice. I never thought about that with a young dog or pup. That large tug is a good idea. Do you think the decoy should be wearing bite suit pants in addition to using the tug for safety reasons?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

You know we don't. Both Andy Larrimore and myself decoy for our dog training group. Andy is 6'-4" and I'm 5'-11", the dog or puppy doesn't look at our size. As soon as they hit the tug, we put up a little fight and slip it. After the puppy is sound on the tug we go to a leg sleeve and then the suit. Just the way we do it, other folks may have a different plan for their dogs. The big thing is to keep the eyes out, not into the decoy. Look at our web site and you can see some puppy decoying.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Howard's post is ..right bang on the money on how to proceed for leg bites. 

I'll add for a green dog (pup) you are on the right track by lessening his OB and making things more fun for him. A 6 or 7 month old pup may look like a adult dog so you have to take that into consideration, that it is still a pup. In my opinion that is the only way to NOT kill a pup's natural prey drive. The old saying goes "All work and no play makes Peter a dull boy" goes for dogs too and it has to be age appropriate play. 

I was worried like hell seeing Sasha my dog in bitework at first. I kept thinking I had to control her and be hard on her. My training director and the decoys basically said let her do what she does and it was almost 6 months before we started to put any OB on her at all .. even "outs" We just let her have at the tug and let her keep winning it. Once she dropped it is was over and we'd start over or put her away depending on how tired she was.

We followed the same protocol that Howard outlined and now she is doing leg bites on the suit, we are tightening up the screws. The big hurdle we are trying to overcome is doing the recall when the decoy is present. All the rest is gravy! 

Really at this point you need to make your pup crazy to play with the tug. Maybe you could use a tug on a rope or on the end of a whip to make him chase it. To start off before going to a leg tug. Keep all sessions short and fun, keep setting your pup up for success. 

Now the most important thing is that he becomes confident (bullish/pushy even) and then he will become comfortable in his grips. Just don't put any pressure on him or mess with him too much or lose patience with him. Your pup will show all of you how and when he is comfortable, that will give your training director a better idea of how to customize your pup's training. For the moment all bite work should be fun and easy. A big fun game!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Thank you Geoff! \\/


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> You know we don't. Both Andy Larrimore and myself decoy for our dog training group. Andy is 6'-4" and I'm 5'-11", the dog or puppy doesn't look at our size. As soon as they hit the tug, we put up a little fight and slip it. After the puppy is sound on the tug we go to a leg sleeve and then the suit. Just the way we do it, other folks may have a different plan for their dogs. The big thing is to keep the eyes out, not into the decoy. Look at our web site and you can see some puppy decoying.


 
Thanks Howard, your web site looks great. How do you keep from being pulled down by that big rottie? He really look likes he enjoys the the work.


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Howard's post is ..right bang on the money on how to proceed for leg bites.
> 
> I'll add for a green dog (pup) you are on the right track by lessening his OB and making things more fun for him. A 6 or 7 month old pup may look like a adult dog so you have to take that into consideration, that it is still a pup. In my opinion that is the only way to NOT kill a pup's natural prey drive. The old saying goes "All work and no play makes Peter a dull boy" goes for dogs too and it has to be age appropriate play.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great advice. Play is a good thing to build confidence...I love this forum...:grin: :mrgreen:


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

I see folks alot get worried about teaching different bite positions. Sure dogs can locked into a certain bite placement, if for example. You buy a well trained Schutzhund and then try doing Ring Sport, Police or PPD. You have to understand what a strong foundation this dog has on the presented forearm.

However, a young drivey dog that is confident and likes to bite, can easily be taught several bite locations.

The key is, to set a good foundation to the spot you want. Alternating both knees. I restrict the dogs movement with a back tie, so I can peak the dogs desire to bite by frustrating the hell out of him. Then I present the only location on my suit to the dog. If I want him to bite a knee, then I present only the knee at the end of his tie out. If wants a bite bad enough, then he must take what I give him, right?

For upper body bites like bicep or arm pits, I often grab the dog's collar and lift him into a bite. The dog must possess confidence with the handler to do this. I simply place the mouth of the dog in the arm pit or bicep. It is very clear. 

Bryan


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mari Steward said:


> Thanks Howard, your web site looks great. How do you keep from being pulled down by that big rottie? He really look likes he enjoys the the work.


The fear of being eaten alive is how! He who falls soon becomes the K-9's next meal.


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