# Looking for guard / watch dog, Different breed!!!???



## john watkins (May 4, 2009)

hello everyone!! I am currently looking for an excellent guard/ watch dog, and wanted to know does anyone have experience with the Cane Corso, Airedaledale terrier and Black Russian Terriers. I know that German Shepherds, Rottweiler, Doberman,Malinois and Dutch Shepherds are favorites of everyone. I still might get one of these dogs, I just want to know if anyone can tell me from experience about these other breeds. I kind of want something different. Most people when they see a shepherd or a rottweiler.....they kind of know what to expect from those dogs. I want a dog that many people do not know about, therefore they would not know what the dog is capable of. The unexpected!!!! Thanks


----------



## xxxxxxxxKarina Scuckyte (Oct 27, 2008)

I have a Caucasian ovtcharka mix and I'm really happy with his guarding ability. Very serious and agressive protector, but nice as a kitten to his family. Of course, there is a problem, where to get a stable one and it takes a strong handler and much much work to make this dog obedient. We got our BH, he is very social (strangers can pet him)and we were in couple of quite serious situacions, he worked really well (sent the bad guy to the hospital). 

I was interested in BRT, but, well, it's too hard to find really working one. It's only a show dog now. Gentle giant, something similar to Newfoundland. This dog can't be a real guardian.


----------



## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

We have had Bouvier de Flanders for 15 years and love the breed.
I know I would hate to see one coming after me even I did not know he was civil or not.


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

HAd an Akita bitch for a few years. Made plenty of noise and always seemed to be on duty.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Craig Wood said:


> We have had Bouvier de Flanders for 15 years and love the breed.
> I know I would hate to see one coming after me even I did not know he was civil or not.


Craig! Thanks for calling up the Bouvier breed. I have 2 and I too would hate to see anyone get froggy around here. This breed has the size and the drive to get the job done. Even smaller sized Bouvs can be very aggressive...I have a female Border Collie that is a GREAT watch dog. Split sets the others into motion.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Howard Knauf said:


> HAd an Akita bitch for a few years. Made plenty of noise and always seemed to be on duty.


 Howard my sister has a female Akita and it will kill or try and kill anything which comes into the yard. I wouldn't trust that dog for any amount of $$$$$$$$$$$!


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Fila Brasileiro. Very watchful of strangers. The breed description says it won't take orders from anyone but the owner and at first I thought it was a myth but the one we had would definitely not take orders from anyone but us.

Given time, easy to train to mingle with crowds whatever the breed clubs say, but will guard house and garden however friendly he becomes to others outside. Average life about 12 years. Ours we pts at 14,5.


----------



## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

The scariest dog I've ever seen was a 180lbs male Boerboel. As fast and agile as any shepherd but easily three times the power. If that dog wanted to harm someone, I doubt the owner could have stopped him.


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

James Degale said:


> The scariest dog I've ever seen was a 180lbs male Boerboel. As fast and agile as any shepherd but easily three times the power. If that dog wanted to harm someone, I doubt the owner could have stopped him.


 
LOL 180lbs....???


LOL Yeh Right!


----------



## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> LOL 180lbs....???
> 
> 
> LOL Yeh Right!


Never worked one I take it. 

Do a google search, range for males is around 60-90kg.


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

James Degale said:


> The scariest dog I've ever seen was a 180lbs male Boerboel. As fast and agile as any shepherd but easily three times the power. If that dog wanted to harm someone, I doubt the owner could have stopped him.


I doubt there is any mastiff breed as agile as a shepherd


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

James Degale said:


> Never worked one I take it.
> 
> Do a google search, range for males is around 60-90kg.


 
Yet another Mythical Beast! LOL


----------



## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

James Degale said:


> Never worked one I take it.
> 
> Do a google search, range for males is around 60-90kg.


James is right 150-200# is the breed standard.


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> James is right 150-200# is the breed standard.


at 180lbs, fast as a Shepherd? LOL LOL [-(


----------



## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> at 180lbs, fast as a Shepherd? LOL LOL [-(


Dude you really need to get out there and work more breeds. 

This one clears a 1m jump by a mile. Ground speed unbelievable. He might still be on Youtube if you search for Boerboel Protection.


----------



## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

I think his owner has taken the video off.

But saw this one, he was as fast if not faster. They cover more mileage for each stride. And that is as fast as a (German) shepherd not the skinny yellow things. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnKNWlk8Ow


----------



## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

I don't know what Airdales are like in the US but over here no one works them anymore. They went from being THE British police dog to very rarely used.

Being a terrier they probably have some working ability but every one I have met is a softie


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Howard my sister has a female Akita and it will kill or try and kill anything which comes into the yard. I wouldn't trust that dog for any amount of $$$$$$$$$$$!


One reason why I re-homed her. 2 patrol dogs, a Rott, a Cocker and her was a little too much at one time. When she killed my daughter's rabbit it was time for her to go. Didn't miss her and that damn barking at all.

Howard


----------



## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

James Degale said:


> Dude you really need to get out there and work more breeds.
> 
> This one clears a 1m jump by a mile. Ground speed unbelievable. He might still be on Youtube if you search for Boerboel Protection.


Those larger breeds do cover a lot of ground per stride. My GSD is pretty fast, but in a straight line, my Dane will catch and over take him, and it hardly looks like she's working hard, just bounding along. When it comes to agility the GSD has it all over her though- jumping, cornering, stopping.


----------



## Sheena Tarrant (Sep 21, 2008)

James Degale said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnKNWlk8Ow


For size reference, Blue (dog in video) is nowhere near 180 lbs. Much closer to 120-125 at working weight. The breed standard is a bit inflated and is quickly turning this breed into the next Bullmastiff or English Mastiff - all about the size, who cares about ability, which (IMO) is evident in most of these dogs.


----------



## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Actually the dog looked more like the size of dog in the video, bigger maybe, not sure the owner got it right, but I wasn't there with my weighing scales. All I know is a big lump whom I was expecting to trot along came charging at me like a frieght train, I was totally caught out. Never seen a big dog move so fast before and been hit so hard before.


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

James Degale said:


> Actually the dog looked more like the size of dog in the video, bigger maybe, not sure the owner got it right, but I wasn't there with my weighing scales. All I know is a big lump whom I was expecting to trot along came charging at me like a frieght train, I was totally caught out. Never seen a big dog move so fast before and been hit so hard before.


Maybe you need to take some of your own advice :twisted: : 

" Dude you really need to get out there and work more breeds."


The dog in that video I believe belongs to Tashi and goes around 130lbs.

I have owned a Large dog going 120lbs at the Vets at 10 months old and toping out at around 145lbs. I know what a BIG dog looks like.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Deagle has a 70 lb Beagle, so you have to take that into consideration. LOL


----------



## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Still waiting for a video of a dog you have actually managed to train and not screw up mate. 5,464 posts, that's a lot on internet hot air, maybe like the dogs you own.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Apologies to the O.P.; maybe we can get this thread back on the rails.


----------



## Mark Baldassarre (Apr 28, 2009)

Here are some BBs, Bouvs, & my Airedale... http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=WorkingBB&view=videos

More of the Airedale http://www.youtube.com/user/markbf


----------



## john watkins (May 4, 2009)

hey Mark those dogs are awesome!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

The BB's I've trained have been very athletic. One of the first ones I trained was a 125# male and he could jump into the back of a pickup without dropping the tailgate. Tony McCalllum has one of his litter-mates in Aus. and he can head a herd of cattle as quick as any 60# cow dog.

The two most athletic mastiff breeds I've worked are still Cane Corso's and Danes. These breeds as well as the BB will definitely outrun the GSD after 3-5 strides.

I have only trained three BRT's and they are not quite as large as these others and not quite as serious looking either, but for a new breed they are impressive, a bit mischievous and clownish, but good dogs.

Dales can be a little more hard headed than the mastiffs but are excellent at anything they learn to do, also smaller than the others you've mentioned. 

As far as manstopping total power nothing compares to the mastiffs. It is simple physics that no one can deny.

I am only talking about breeds I have actually trained, http://web.archive.org/web/20031217113731/bandog.net/butch/butch.htm

Butch Cappel
www.k9ps.com


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I met a working bred BRT and he was ANYTHING BUT clownish and goofy. That dog was dead serious and you knew it from the get go. Definetely a breed I'd play around with if I had time and money. 

Courtney


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

James tell them about your 70lb beagle that comes up the leash. AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

How about you show us a video of your beagle doing "MANWORK" 

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA


----------



## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

John,

Your thinking is good but no dog is full proof. GSDs from the best lines, with great training sometimes fail to protect their helper in his/her time of need. The dogs can only do so much. Don't take away one of the best aspects of a GSD or similar dog: their physical presense as a deterrent.

To a bad guy, you walking a german shepherd is like you walking down the street with a shotgun. The bad guy is forced to decide wether or not the shotgun is loaded, and if you know how to turn off the safety and pull the trigger. You walking an airedale down the street is like you walking down the street with a cane. Now maybe that cane is a sword cane, but the bad guy is not going to wonder, he's going to make you prove that the cane is formidable, probably after he's already given you a good whack.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

But then again, you have to be realistic, are you walking down the street and getting wacked a lot ??? 

Are you in a situation that your family is in so much danger ?? Try moving.


----------



## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

Jeff,

I get your gist, and I don't feel my family is in any predictable danger.

That said, one can escape random, inexplicable, unwarranted danger much easier with a kind word and a GSD than just a kind word. Just depends wether or not you think "watch him" is a kind word.


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Courtney,

Sorry I should clarify. I don't mean the BRT are not very serious in their man-work, they are! They are as good a dog as you cna get for guard work probably.

When I said clownish I meant their personalities. They seem to have a sense of humor and will steal leashes, etc. when your not looking.

Thanks for letting me clear that up.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jason it sounds good but any "word" can set even the lowest of dirtballs into motion. If the dog is black, most get back. I use to walk the streets with my old Lab, black and nice as pie! The fact that she was black in color set in motion people to the OTHER side of the street.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Butch Cappel said:


> Courtney,
> 
> Sorry I should clarify. I don't mean the BRT are not very serious in their man-work, they are! They are as good a dog as you cna get for guard work probably.
> 
> ...


 
Butch, I have seen and worked a few BRTs and the ones that I saw were nice pets, but I would put more stock into a pissed off old lady first. The BRT from working lines is very defensive and slightly larger than some Bouviers. It seems to take some doing to get them in motion, as they are slow to mature and space related, IMO. 

I would take a nice Giant Schnauzer over a BRT any day, then a Bouvier des Flandres, then the BRT. I have owned two of the three breeds and like the smaller working lines GSN and Bouviers better. But, it still remins the breeding and then the breed in my book.


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

john watkins, there's a moral in here.....

A guy decides he wants to learn how to hunt. Needing a good hunting dog, he visits a farmer who has been advertising hounds in the newspaper. The farmer shows him several dogs, but the guy doesn't like them. Then he spots one hound that the farmer hasn't shown him. The guys asks, "What about that one?" "Oh, no," the farmer replies. "That one's my special dog." "What's so special about him?" "Let me show you."

The farmer leads the guy and the dog to a field, lifts up one of the dog's ears, and orders, "Go find the birds!" The dog charges to a nearby bush, points and barks once. "That means there's one bird in that bush," says the farmer. "No way!" exclaims the guy. The farmer takes a stick and pokes the bush, and a huge pheasant flies out.

To further convince the guy, the farmer again lifts the dog's ear and repeats, "Go find the birds!" This time the dog streaks off to another bush, points, and barks twice. "That means there's two birds in there," says the farmer,
taking his stick and poking at the bush. Two huge pheasants pop out and fly away.

"I've gotta have that dog!" says the man. "Well, okay," replies the farmer. "But it's gonna cost you a bundle." The guy forks over the bucks and takes the dog.

A month later, the farmer has to go to the city, and decides to visit the guy who bough his prize hound. When he asked the guy about the dog, the man replies, "A couple of buddies and I went hunting, and when we got to a field the damnedest thing happened. I went up to the dog, lifted one of his ears, and said 'Go find the birds.' The dog
took off like a bat outta hell and ran into the field, barking and running around like crazy. Then he jumped on my leg and started humping it like I was a bitch in heat. After that, he grabbed a stick and started shaking it violently at me! I thought he'd gone nuts for sure, or maybe had rabies or something. So I shot the ****er."

"You blithering idiot!" yelled the farmer. "He was just telling you that there's more f***in' birds out there than you could shake a stick at!"


----------



## Mark Baldassarre (Apr 28, 2009)

john watkins said:


> hey Mark those dogs are awesome!!!!!!!!!


 
Thanks John. Regardless of what breed you may end up choosing...be careful in choosing your prospect. Don't fall for any; breed or breeder's hype.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

maggie fraser said:


> john watkins, there's a moral in here.....
> 
> A guy decides he wants to learn how to hunt. Needing a good hunting dog, he visits a farmer who has been advertising hounds in the newspaper. The farmer shows him several dogs, but the guy doesn't like them. Then he spots one hound that the farmer hasn't shown him. The guys asks, "What about that one?" "Oh, no," the farmer replies. "That one's my special dog." "What's so special about him?" "Let me show you."
> 
> ...


Good one:lol:


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

john watkins said:


> hello everyone!! I am currently looking for an excellent guard/ watch dog, and wanted to know does anyone have experience with the Cane Corso, Airedaledale terrier and Black Russian Terriers. I know that German Shepherds, Rottweiler, Doberman,Malinois and Dutch Shepherds are favorites of everyone. I still might get one of these dogs, I just want to know if anyone can tell me from experience about these other breeds. I kind of want something different. Most people when they see a shepherd or a rottweiler.....they kind of know what to expect from those dogs. I want a dog that many people do not know about, therefore they would not know what the dog is capable of. The unexpected!!!! Thanks


If you must have an "off breed", i would get a Bouvier for sure, but like with any other dog, it needs to come from the right working lines.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

john watkins said:


> I kind of want something different. Most people when they see a shepherd or a rottweiler.....they kind of know what to expect from those dogs. I want a dog that many people do not know about, therefore they would not know what the dog is capable of. The unexpected!!!! Thanks


Sounds like your looking for blood=P~:twisted:
Hell yeh you could really suck someone with a Bouv you could tell them its a poodle and to come close even lure them in to a corner with the promise of some great tricks. Surprise bam!!! :lol: Prolly even get a little shit and blood 8)


----------



## ISH MOORE (Apr 29, 2009)

HI THERE,

We have bred, trained and work Cane Corso for 10 years. If there is any thing you want to know about the breed bad or good. Feel free to give us a call or check out our site. They can be great watch and guard dogs.
http://www.dreamteamkennels.com


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Howard, I would agree with your assessment and your ranking of the dogs.

I enjoy training a defensive dog and that probably affects many of my judgments of the breeds I deal with, but I do a lot of not so common dogs as well as the herders. 

I will definitely second your assessment of the Bouv and Giant Schnauzer, hopefully when the BRT has another fifty years behind them they will be close to the those breeds in performance.

Butch Cappel
www.k9ps.com


----------



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

My personal opinion, after having spent many years around and researching bull breeds/bandogs....your chances of finding a healthy one that will protect you are fairly slim. Like everything there are exceptions, but there seems to be a scale of likely success. American bulldogs (with pits) would be at one end, and cane corsos are at the lower end.

....thats what brought me to herders and to this site


----------



## ISH MOORE (Apr 29, 2009)

IF YOU WATCH A SERIOUS GUARD/WATCH. THE BEST DOG I HAVE EVER OWNED IS THE FILA SAO MIGUEL. 

IT IS NOT FOR THE NOVICE!

http://www.DreamTeamKennels.com


----------



## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

I cannot understand the mentality of wanting a "stealth" sentry dog. How about a trained rat that can shoot a pistol? Think how much less you would spend on dog food!

Get a GSD. It's the universal k-9 symbol for "private property, piss off."


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> at 180lbs, fast as a Shepherd? LOL LOL [-(


 
A cheap GSD dig here in 5,4,3,2,1

You mean there are fast shepherds?


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I have to ask for clarification on exactly what the OP is looking for....a Guard/ watch dog in my book is vastly different than a trained protection dog. I had a Fila Brasiliero that will bite the shit out of anyone who stepped on the property he didnot know....a totally liablity...but god forbid the man whom tried to break in...Send him on a field to do a blind search and he would piss himself if he found someone in the blind.

My Malinois would let anyone into the house, give them kisses, do figure 8's through thier legs...hoping for a scratch behind the ear. I say the word, and she'd be hanging off thier arm. 

One a guard dog, one a protection dog.


----------



## kevin holford (Apr 11, 2009)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f23/black-russian-doing-muzzle-work-11136/

Here are some BRT videos.O


----------



## Ryan Lentz (Jul 25, 2009)

I currently have a Cane Corso whos protective with out being a overly aggressive idiot. He's been that way since a young age...If your welcomed into the house, then your fine with him....now just open the door without knocking or us letting you in (which has happened)...then you'd think you were his worst enemy...easy to handle and walk but very alert to noise and people...
I also had a Dogue De Bordeaux that in his own right was great...also protective and pretty athletic for a beast of a dog....
both these dogs were more then enough just visually....


----------



## Riley Rodewald (Feb 12, 2008)

Sorry if this is a little off topic but I was just wondering how the bouvier's would be with someone who has minimal dog allergies? My nephew is developing small allergies to dogs and he wouldn't be over all the time. But when he is over could he deal with a bouv in the house? I hear they are minimal shedders just wanted a little more insight on that.

Thanks


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i would suggest starting a new thread to address that question riley.


----------



## Riley Rodewald (Feb 12, 2008)

sorry my mistake


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jason Caldwell said:


> I cannot understand the mentality of wanting a "stealth" sentry dog. How about a trained rat that can shoot a pistol? Think how much less you would spend on dog food!
> 
> Get a GSD. It's the universal k-9 symbol for "private property, piss off."


That's funny There are a certain car people that like the sleeper look. They come up on me when I'm in my vette and want to play its obvious my car ain't a sleeper and has had a ton of money put in it but they cant resist.


----------

