# Inappropriate Human Interactions



## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

As demonstrated by Kyle Dyer of 9 News....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TABUKagZ5mA


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

I saw this posted on another forum. I said the same thing there...It SEEMS to me that she was leaning forward to possibly kiss the dog...something that NOBODY should attempt with ANY dog that they are not very, very familiar with.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

"ripping her lip off"

Nothing like an inflammatory title to stir thing up even more :-(


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Skip Morgart said:


> ...It SEEMS to me that she was leaning forward to possibly kiss the dog...something that NOBODY should attempt with ANY dog that they are not very, very familiar with.


 
Yep, hope she learned her lesson, and I sure hope the dog doesn't get put down because of her stupidity.

EDITED TO ADD LINK TO FOLLOW UP NEWS STORY: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57374411/anchor-recovering-from-dog-bite-during-broadcast/


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Now everybody is gonna want one!](*,)


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Some uninformed goof went on another mail forum and mentioned how it was not a police dog because they are highly trained (which they are) and would never do that. There is a you tube on a sheriff's K9 who bit another stupid ass human (reporter too) because he leaned over while petting the cute little puppy. Bottom line, they are dogs. First and foremost. We all know that here. Of course they forget to tell how the dog was in the tv station for about 30 to 45 minutes prior and everyone was petting the dog. She goofed up and if she was human enough she would do a news segment on dog behaivour and especially human behaivour. Once again, society will blame the dog and the owner.....](*,)


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

It always seems to be the same lead up with these things, heavy ear or cheek stroking, firm constriction of the leash/collar, with someone at the front, about a foot away hovering over, almost blocking the dog. Then, the kiss of death, the lean in.

Not that I'm not sympathetic to people who get bit but it does surprise me that people generally aren't more cautious around dogs. For me it's a given that the potential for something like this to occur is always there so watch my dogs very closely around other people. Even if that means inserting myself in between them or halting a potential interaction that may lead up to a bite.


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## Andy Sepulveda (Jun 19, 2010)

http://youtu.be/gUQY6oGtLKA


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

At least it wasn't quite as stupid as this one, in which the dog was given pretty clear signals the entire time the other person was petting him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHLnjiISsOo


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Dummies.....


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## Cassandra Lane (Jul 2, 2010)

Is it just me or was the dog offering calming signals until the reporter leaned in. Stupid lady. Feel bad for the dog, if he had growled and displayed defensive behaviour instead of acting passive, he would still have gotten blamed even though it was her fault.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Now everybody is gonna want one!](*,)


HAHAHAHA!!! Sad but true.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Cassandra Lane said:


> Is it just me or was the dog offering calming signals until the reporter leaned in.


I am not familiar with the term calming signals. How would you describe that?

If you are asking if the dog appeared to be demonstrating neutrality prior to the lean in, my assessment is no. Given what I saw from his behavior, had I seen it in my own dog, it would have made me uncomfortable and I would have put and end to that. As a matter of fact if people want to engage with my dogs (particularly the mastiff), I will position myself so that I am able to see her face/shoulders. Usually several behaviors take place over a long enough period of time that something like this could be avoided with proper observation and intervention. JMO of course.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> I am not familiar with the term calming signals. How would you describe that?
> 
> If you are asking if the dog appeared to be demonstrating neutrality prior to the lean in, my assessment is no. Given what I saw from his behavior, had I seen it in my own dog, it would have made me uncomfortable and I would have put and end to that. As a matter of fact if people want to engage with my dogs (particularly the mastiff), I will position myself so that I am able to see her face/shoulders. Usually several behaviors take place over a long enough period of time that something like this could be avoided with proper observation. JMO of course.


I agree. Hubby came in last night asking me if I'd seen it. While I couldn't believe how DUMB the news anchor was, I really questioned the handler as well. The big thing for me is that there was nothing in the dog's behavior that said he was warm and fuzzy--quite the contrary. But how many people out there don't have a clue as to how to read a dog. I understand the Turid Rugas calming signals so I'll go look at the video.

T


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

There was a point when he was tired of the fawning and petting and turned his head away. He does a few licking motions but I think that was part of the panting. But when she leaned in and had eye contact, he went for her. There was a stare for a couple of seconds before he launched.

T


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

horrible idiotic handling !
totally preventable
totally and completely the handlers fault ](*,)](*,)](*,)
OBVIOUSLY doesn't know his own dog
1. shouldn't have been sitting back on his ass BEHIND the dog with NO control over the situation
2. shouldn't have had the dog wedged in between his legs holding the dog by the collar with a LOT of tension on the dog's collar
3. shouldn't have allowed more than a stroke or two if any at all
4. as SOON as the dog started licking its lips interaction should have stopped.....the freaking dog was not EATING anything that i could see  
and for christs sakes as SOON as it looked away, ALL interaction should have stopped immediately

but of course the DUMB shit handler didn't see that cause he wasn't paying attention and watching his dog in the first place !!

why do people on this forum constantly ignore handler errors and lay the blame on the stupid clueless people around them ??????

VERY nice dog who did all that it could to show its stupid handler it wasn't comfortable being a petting accessory in that position and then gave a nice small nip when pushed too far


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Now everybody is gonna want one!](*,)


My wife says I can't bring home a stupid TV reporter ;-)


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Rick, I agree that there was a fair bit going on there with that dog and you hit on many of the key points. Physically he was positioned away from her yet his neck was craned around and forward in her direction. Dogs seeking attention especially dogs of that physical stature would have manipulated their body to be more engaging and inviting of the attention. The fact that his body was turned away was my first clue that he did not welcome the attention. Additionally, his lips pursed a number of times, and it appeared to me that he exhibited a brief period or two of displacement behavior and then slight avoidance, before the final second or two.

About commenting on the handling, unless I'm trying to be a jerk or screw with Joby, I'd rather not come right out and target someone's handling. If I find it to be abusive, then I am considerably less restrained in expressing my opinions. Obviously they didn't know better or they would have handled it differently.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> My wife says I can't bring home a stupid TV reporter ;-)



I guess that biting one is REALLY out of the question then.  :-# :-\"


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## Jane Jean (Sep 18, 2009)

That was smaller than expected when I posted it...copied from here: http://www.box.com/shared/agbrr26eb5
Turid Rugaas has DVD and a book on calming signals/body language...every dog owner should view it.

I agree, handler should have protected his dog...read his signals and not put him in that situation.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yes, Rick, in a perfect world the handler never should have allowed the dog to be in this position. In fact I bet if he knew what a moron the reporter was going to be he probably never would have agreed to the interview in the first place. But hey - guess what - not every dog owner is great at reading signals. BUT every human being ought to at least have the common sense and brain power of a canary when it comes to approaching strange dogs.

This is exactly another good reason why I don't let strangers touch my dogs. Unfortunately we don't have leashes and pinch collars on the weirdo people who suddenly lose all common sense when it comes to dogs they don't know and "can I pet your dog" turns into them putting their dumb faces down over our dogs or on eye level with our dogs, and move in for the smooch while making idiotic little squeaky kissy noises. 

And this is aside from my first good reason which is whatever weird ass shit is already on their hands that they are smearing all over my dog by "petting" him, which then transfers to me......yuck.

Nucking futs.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Do any of these people really KNOW this dog??? Who lets some bimbo get all up in some rescue DOGOS grill??? morons for sure, regardless.. who knows what they are thinkin...



Nicole Stark said:


> About commenting on the handling, *unless I'm trying to be a jerk or screw with Joby,* I'd rather not come right out and target someone's handling. If I find it to be abusive, then I am considerably less restrained in expressing my opinions. Obviously they didn't know better or they would have handled it differently.



is that an or, or an *AND*??? I have gotten a whiff of a few digs her and there, but I can't remember you targeting my handling...do I need to shoot some more video of my dog growling at me?? 

I never had a dog bite anyone that didn't deserve it, except that poor guy that was sleeping in my back seat, unbeknownst to me..until it was too late...the dog that I let in the back seat let me know about him rather quickly....and called off fairly decently, if I do say so myself...


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby, you've got to stop taking me so seriously. We're both unfortunately from the same part of the country. I gotta cover that up sometimes that's all, so I offer you up as a sacrificial offering of sort. 

It's a good management diversion tactic. Just let me do all the talking and we're good ok?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Joby, you've got to stop taking me so seriously. We're both unfortunately from the same part of the country. I gotta cover that up sometimes that's all, so I offer you up as a sacrificial offering of sort.
> 
> It's a good management diversion tactic. Just let me do all the talking and we're good ok?


ok...sorry...still just cant let go that one time I pissed you off on the PM...about the tattoo thing that one time, that I dont remember why lol... got me walking on eggshells over here...


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

No you didn't, you must not know me well enough to realize that aside from being honest to a fault, I am private about my personal affairs. I didn't give you the link to my tattoo studio when you asked for it. You didn't piss me off, I assure you if you had I would have told you so but my declining your request maybe led you to that conclusion.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Oh is that what it was.... didnt remember...


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Oh is that what it was.... didnt remember...


Ah don't worry about it, I forgive you and your brain tumor. \\/


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

this is related to the everyday REAL world of basic dog handling ///
a few Q's :

1. is there ANYONE on this forum who thinks that holding your dog by the collar, while sitting behind the dog AND having the dog between your legs with essentially nowhere to move but AT the visitor is a proper OR acceptable way to allow ANYONE (idiot, possible idiot, or non idiot) to come up and pet your dog ??
2. is there anyone who feels this handler was not 100% responsible for that bite ??
3. is there anyone who feels that the larger the dog the more careful you must be when around a person they don't know, and that this handling would have been just as stupid if the dog was a pomeranian sitting on his lap ??


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Your preaching to the choir here (that'd be me) Rick-san. Especially in the aspect that a handler is always responsible for the universal safety of his or her dog.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i do understand Nicole ... completely 

but my gut feeling is that there are people who watched that video and did not feel the handler was doing a damn thing wrong and only saw a stupid announcer do something stupid and deserve to get nailed :-(
- to me it was exactly the opposite from the get go as soon as i saw the set up

but i'm beginning to wonder if i'm just some kinda weirdo safety freak; that's why i wrote up the last post the way i did because this will just get logged as another statistic that helps to ruin a large breed's rep

but since i'm not ready to get off my soapbox just yet, i'll add one more "opinion" since i think the video helps confirm my opinion 

i have said before and will say again that imo the way to allow a stranger to interact with your dog safely is for YOU to bring the dog to them, not vice versa, to have them FEED your dog a treat (while YOU are holding THEIR hand), rather than allow them to pet your dog or touch it in any way, and always be between your dog and the visitor, and ONLY watch your dog
- i have done it this way for YEARS with confirmed BITERS of all levels of nerves; not just snotty little nippers - BITERS who drew blood and left scars :-(

- if the dog can't handle that - NO interaction
- if the dog won't eat - it's stressed and even MORE of a no brainer - NO interaction
- if the dog doesn't want to approach, don't drag em - NO interaction
..amen....

obviously it really TICKS me off to read about how stupid the VISITOR was and how they deserved to get what they got etc etc etc ... so much that sometimes it makes me think i'm wasting my time on this forum :-(

excuse the tirade ... thought we are talking about training and handling dogs and this was about as basic and as stupid as it gets, so i thought the handler deserved to get hammered even tho the damage has been done 

- and sorry for the soapbox session -- i'm outa here; no more rants from this section of the peanut gallery


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

In the handler's defence, I'm pretty sure he was way out of his element here. Just a guy with a family pet that got loose, fell in a pond and was rescued. Bang, he's on tv with the dog. Bright lights, strange setting, cameras, chaos, the locally famous pretty reporter... not sure how I would have dealt with that and certain I would have been nervous and stressed and not confident enough to tell the reporter on live television to back off of my dog. Especially if, under normal circumstances, my dog is friendly and social. All that tension is affecting the dog, too.

I saw the dog's discomfort, but it all happened really quickly. Easy to sit here behind my monitor and dissect what's going on with the dog's body language and say uh, oh, that's starting to look ugly. I'm not sure I would have had the wherewithal if it had been me in that situation to reach out and shove the reporter's face back in time to avoid what happened. 

So, yeah, I'm thinking there needs to be a guide to reporters on how to approach dogs during an interview. Includes things like don't lean over the dog and don't jam your face into the dog's face. Handlers need to step up, too and protect their dogs, and be very clear about how the dog is to be approached, but not everyone has had the experience to learn how to do that.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> Includes things like don't lean over the dog and don't jam your face into the dog's face.


That would be called common sense. Didn't we watch Mr. Fudd for that lesson?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

so how much common sense did the dogo owner demonstrate in that clip ?


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Are you asking before or after the dog was allowed the opportunity to fall into an icy lake?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Jackie... you commented on the "dog guide" for the REPORTER .... i was putting the spotlight on the OWNER 

... does this mean you actually agree with me ?? 

i absolutely DON'T agree it is the reporter that needs the dog guide .... for me it's all about the dogo dumbass

i think it's time we stop talking about the victim ](*,)


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

I agree that owners shouldn't put their dogs in dumb situations.

I agree that people shouldn't put themselves in dumb situations.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

The bottom line for me
I don't stick my face in the vicinity of a strange dogs teeth

I don't let strangers stick their faces near my dogs teeth


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Jackie Lockard said:


> That would be called common sense. Didn't we watch Mr. Fudd for that lesson?


Sadly, some people need to learn through experience, as common sense is lacking.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

rick smith said:


> ...i absolutely DON'T agree it is the reporter that needs the dog guide .... for me it's all about the dogo dumbass
> 
> i think it's time we stop talking about the victim ](*,)


If you don't want to talk about it, don't, but seriously, your opinion isn't shared everybody. People with common sense don't do what she did, it was stupid, plain and simple.
](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

It was one of those media circusses, where for some reason people seem to think it is a cool story to reunite the dog with its rescuer on national TV. Like the dog cares.

Thrust the dog into a totally unfamiliar situation after a traumatic experience where it was in full prey drive add one reporter who cant keep her hands and face out of the dogs face, talking in an excited high pitched voice to an unfamiliar dog that really has nowhere to go and it is a recipe for what happened.

There was fault on all sides, handler and reporter including humans obssessions for such news stories, pushing animals into a situation that many a child would have found overwhelming, if it had been a child.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i DO want to talk about this because it is an important issue for me and can't see the logic or point from those who keep "balancing" the blame for irresponsible ownership and stupid handling.....
....and also because this same attitude is routinely presented when these issues get brought up on this forum

ok, try using a different example :
you're a lawyer and you're defending a stalker pervert dirtbag, or anyone that rapes and beats a hooker 

- " clearly the dumb bitch was asking for it"
- " didn't have the guts or common sense to stop walking the streets by herself "
- " obviously there was fault on both sides ... we can't lay all the blame on the rapist "
- " i know enuff not to wear those kind of sexy clothes "
- " maybe we need to write a manual for how to avoid rapes and distribute it free to all streetwalkers "

just because there is a tiny "sliver" of relevance about the guilt or responsibility of the victim, how can u use the same basic attitude when it refers to a dog/human incident, especially when there is a (human) injury involved ??????

to me it's the same logic...and wrong of course

- imo the responsibility issue is very clear and should be put SQUARELY on the rapist's shoulders rather than attempt to "balance it out", or post an "i don't walk the streets" and "i don't rape women either" attitude
](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

huh??? Not even slightly similar. You are comparing apples to oranges.

A dog is an animal not a human, to take liberties with a strange dog is stupid. It's as stupid as looking down the barrel of a gun to see if there's anything in there. I'm pretty sure the reporter is aware of this now.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Rick, a more appropriate scenario would be a parent out with their child and a groper coming along.

parent = dog owner (responsible for another's well being)
child = dog (innocent)
groper = reporter (general asshole)

If a groper came along and said hi to the kid, even shaking hands, no big deal. If they started putting their hands on the kid inappropriately YES the parent is at fault if they continue to allow it to happen until the kid is screaming or disrobed or whatever. When you're in charge of another creature's existence you're responsible for their well being, end of story.

And of course if gropers didn't exist there wouldn't be this issue in the first place. (It's still nice to dream.)


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> huh??? Not even slightly similar. You are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> A dog is an animal not a human, to take liberties with a strange dog is stupid. It's as stupid as looking down the barrel of a gun to see if there's anything in there. I'm pretty sure the reporter is aware of this now.


Shit. Timed Out.

Rick, here is why your rape analogy isn't even slightly similar to the reporter getting bitten by the dog:

No human being under any circumstances has the right to rape another human being. Nothing a person wears or does, gives another human being the right to assault/rape someone (duh).

As human beings it behooves us to act responsibly around animals, after all, we are supposedly the more intelligent. It's called being personally responsible. 

I also do NOT think someone who climbs in with an animal in the zoo should be able to collect one thin dime for the ensuing damages simply because the zoo couldn't keep the moron out of the cage. 

Personal Responsibility. Common Sense.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

rick smith said:


> i DO want to talk about this because it is an important issue for me and can't see the logic or point from those who keep "balancing" the blame for irresponsible ownership and stupid handling.....
> ....and also because this same attitude is routinely presented when these issues get brought up on this forum


If the the dog owner had declined to put his dog through the circus it wouldnt have happened, if the dog owner had told the woman to unhand the dog and backoff it wouldnt have happened. The owner stuffed up. 

If the reporter had had the sense not to take liberties with the dog and stick her face in its face it wouldnt have happened. I thought the onus is on reporters to at least do some research before they do a story, she was playing to the audience and parked her brain. I love animals attitude so they will love me is clearly flawed and no doubt she has learned a valuable lesson. Although I wouldnt have wished it on her.

Human error on both sides, everyones brain was parked up somewhere other than in the dogs best interests.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

rick smith said:


> this is related to the everyday REAL world of basic dog handling ///
> a few Q's :
> 
> 1. is there ANYONE on this forum who thinks that holding your dog by the collar, while sitting behind the dog AND having the dog between your legs with essentially nowhere to move but AT the visitor is a proper OR acceptable way to allow ANYONE (idiot, possible idiot, or non idiot) to come up and pet your dog ??
> ...


I said from jump street that the handler was clueless. Look at how they continued to stroke him after the bite. But how many people have a dog like this and don't have a clue as to what is in the dog? Or worse--like it and encourage it? I think the news lady wasn't real bright but how many people are educated in how to handle and read a dog? Ultimately, the responsibility was on the handler to only put the dog in situations that he can handle and I don't think it was necessary new to the handler that the dog didn't like a stare into the face and all that dominance type behavior the news anchor was performing fawning over the dog.




T


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Now it all makes sense Rick when you compare it to rape. Hang the bastard owner by his balls. Let's go get 'em. That comparison to me shows how dumb some dog owners are. I would never ever rationalize or justified my opinons by such an analogy. The dog and owner were invited to the news room. Who knows what conversations were made prior to airing. The co-anchor wrote that the dog was being petted by everyone in the news room about 45 minutes before air time. No problems. I guess if I run a stop sign while driving and hit and kill a drunk driver, it really is their fault because they were impaired. JMHO


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

How many people here think this is the dogs first bite , I dont!


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

How do you know Tammy? Just judging a book by its cover?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Thomas H. Elliott said:


> How do you know Tammy? Just judging a book by its cover?


Thomas,

I agree with Tammy that this probably isn't the dogs first bite, based on the way he's holding on to the collar. He is obviously worried about the dogs reaction to the reporter. I don't know why people can't simply say "my dog isn't friendly please don't try to pet him" or in this guys situation "he's still a little nervous from his rescue"? The dog needs an owner who is smarter then he (or the reporter) is


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Thomas,
> 
> I agree with Tammy that this probably isn't the dogs first bite, based on the way he's holding on to the collar. He is obviously worried about the dogs reaction to the reporter. I don't know why people can't simply say "my dog isn't friendly please don't try to pet him" or in this guys situation "he's still a little nervous from his rescue"? The dog needs an owner who is smarter then he (or the reporter) is


You could be right, or possibly the guy was very nervous because he was on TV, and stressed because of what happened the day before. Goes without saying, we transmit our emotions right down the lead. He also might have felt his dog tensing up but froze because he was in the middle of being interviewed on live TV. So this dog had a nervous handler and a reporter who stupidly mugged the dog. 

The reporter made a boner move around a strange dog. The owner of the dog made mistakes too. 

I go back to my original statement, this is one of the two reasons why I don't let strangers touch my dogs, they act stupidly around dogs they don't know. Unfortunately we do have to protect our dogs from idiotic people like the reporter. Too much can go wrong too quickly.

I don't know what gets into people's heads. Dogs are not teddy bears.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

>>> How do you know Tammy? Just judging a book by its cover?>>

that is FAR from me if you know anything about me which you dont so ill let it go ,,

I have right now, 3 rescued dogos who i have in foster care looking for homes a mom and 2 pups, so i acutally LIKE the breed

I train dogs and there was a few signs i noticed
Guy holding the dog tighter and tighter and closer to him as the reporter got more in the dogs space , 
and i would say just by what i saw in the dog that it wasnt his first time, Just a opinion..


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> How many people here think this is the dogs first bite , I dont!


 
I don't think it was the first indication that he would bite either.

T


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

this is the video of the rescue,, dog doesnt look too friendly once he is out of the water,,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVBxR8L3aA&feature=related


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

all people involved are morons...

the people with the dogs...

the people that got bitten..

hopefully they learned a little...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> all people involved are morons...
> 
> the people with the dogs...
> 
> ...



All morons aside, the bad part about it being a "learning" experience is that the dog and the breed have another serious mark against them.


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

Jane Jean said:


> That was smaller than expected when I posted it...copied from here: http://www.box.com/shared/agbrr26eb5
> Turid Rugaas has DVD and a book on calming signals/body language...every dog owner should view it.
> 
> I agree, handler should have protected his dog...read his signals and not put him in that situation.


the baloon comments in the picture are hilarious.


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