# tracking harnness



## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

i am looking for a good tracking harness if you seen my videos you probably seen i am tracking for man hunt mostly with a young ds name Tara.
i trained her in a new system and hade to improvised and invent things along the way.

iam allways want to add more speed to her.
up till now i used flat or pinch collar and now i think its the time for mor speed and stamina.
she is quit a puller and low nose so i need harness that
1. wont block her airway
2. will let her pull comfortly and easy along the track trail 
3. wont bother her to put her nose and head down to the ground while she pulling or even encourage her to put her nose down...
4. maybe a harness that the d ring is under the dog and not on his back? 
5.light 
6. let her run, move and pull with ease
so butger harness and dry mashing harness wont work (i tried that out it wont do)...
any sugestions? or thougths?

i really hope i wont have to reinvent the wheel here...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Possibly a sled dog harness or maybe altering one? 

Obviously they don't restrict the dog's movement or breathing.


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## Patty Beck (Mar 9, 2011)

RedLine K9 Patrol Dog Harness - dogsport gear


This is what I use for tracking with ICE. Easy on easy off and doesn't restrict any movement.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

What kind of mushing harness did you use? I think an x back style probably wouldn't work well, but the shorter harnesses are made for a higher attachment point (from dog to waist height, rather than to a lower sled) so the pulling force is better distributed on the dog's body to not impede movement, or create force downward on the dog's hips. 

I'm wondering if one of these harnesses would work.


https://www.snowpawstore.com/euroshort-harness.html


https://www.maritimemushingsupply.com/product-page/line-harness


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I use the one pictured on the Doberman. Don't know why it's not in the catalog. It was a brand new item unveiled at the HITS seminar last year. Pretty nice.

https://k9tacticalgear.com/collections/harnesses


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I favor the ones with the Y-fronts because they don't put pressure on the point of shoulder joint and I can do some slight lifting with them. I get the leather tracking harness from Ray Allen. I had a heavy puller that I use the padded one with and for the "normal" puller I use the regular leather tracking harness. They also make a webbed one but I don't like so much because the width of the webbing can cause it to curl in the shoulder line.




https://www.rayallen.com/light-tracking-harness


https://www.rayallen.com/latigo-leather-tracking-harness (this is padded. They make a non-padded front one)


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

thanks Bob 
i tried it with a traditional sled dog harness i have. it wont do becuse the head of the dog tend to lounch forward while pulling in it and thats why its affect the way the dog track.
but maybe its a good idea to alterning one combined with the traditional butcher harness...
i


Bob Scott said:


> Possibly a sled dog harness or maybe altering one?
> 
> Obviously they don't restrict the dog's movement or breathing.


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

hi 
thank you Patty i what is your dog tracking style?
i asked it becuse i tried using a similar one and the problems i hade is: when the dog is 
1. when she is pulling hard* i suspect there is much prresure on the shoulder bones. either way i feel she loosing unbalance energy on the pull.
2. when she pull hard* she tend to take her head a bit forward and also higher. 
that prevent her from smelling between her front legs and so she tend to focus on more distant tracks and fix problems buy cirecelling than by leaning down, stick her nose down or walk 
abit backward.

do you have videos of your dog tracking with that harness?
thank you very much



Patty Beck said:


> RedLine K9 Patrol Dog Harness - dogsport gear
> 
> 
> This is what I use for tracking with ICE. Easy on easy off and doesn't restrict any movement.


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

hi lesllie
thank you for the reply.
i think you gave me a very good ideas about the harness i am looking for. i didnt thougth on the points you mention especeally on the force distributed.
i did try a similar harness to the ones you linked.
problem with them is when the average herder dog leaned forward and pull he can not deep his nose to the ground and sniff becouse he can not reach the ground. 





leslie cassian said:


> What kind of mushing harness did you use? I think an x back style probably wouldn't work well, but the shorter harnesses are made for a higher attachment point (from dog to waist height, rather than to a lower sled) so the pulling force is better distributed on the dog's body to not impede movement, or create force downward on the dog's hips.
> 
> I'm wondering if one of these harnesses would work.
> 
> ...


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

thank you Howard.
do you know how this model called?
i didnt tried this kind of harness.
i think from what i read in your post that your tracking style is the most simlar to mine.
does your dog track hard pulling?
do you track fast? does this harness allow him to get his head down while pulling?

best regards



Howard Knauf said:


> I use the one pictured on the Doberman. Don't know why it's not in the catalog. It was a brand new item unveiled at the HITS seminar last year. Pretty nice.
> 
> https://k9tacticalgear.com/collections/harnesses


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

thank you Sarah i will check it out.
the pressure on the shoulder point is consern me too.
i think this harness is similar to the one Howard is using. does it not?
does your heavy puller dogs able to stick they head down and snif the ground while they pulling hard forward? 
do you have videos of your dog tracking with it?
meanwhile i will check the ones of your young pointer i dont recall if you track him with a harness or not...
thanks




Sarah Platts said:


> I favor the ones with the Y-fronts because they don't put pressure on the point of shoulder joint and I can do some slight lifting with them. I get the leather tracking harness from Ray Allen. I had a heavy puller that I use the padded one with and for the "normal" puller I use the regular leather tracking harness. They also make a webbed one but I don't like so much because the width of the webbing can cause it to curl in the shoulder line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

another question did you guys ever tried tracking with the y front while the leash is attached to the lower side of the Y "leg" so the leash goes underneath the dog?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

sefi sahar said:


> another question did you guys ever tried tracking with the y front while the leash is attached to the lower side of the Y "leg" so the leash goes underneath the dog?



yeah.


anyway, about the counter points you mentioned above about connection/weight distribution and ability to reach the ground...


Check this out and draw your own conclusions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8Up9aBqUI


The yellow harness on the Aussie and Black and Tan dogs in this video was also used by Wasabi (seen in green with a different set up) in her early pulls. At least here you can see what it looks like on different dogs. I won't comment on Wasabi's custom set up because it isn't relevant to this discussion.


All, if not most, of the harnesses you see here were made by the same maker.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

sefi sahar said:


> thank you Howard.
> do you know how this model called?
> i didnt tried this kind of harness.
> i think from what i read in your post that your tracking style is the most simlar to mine.
> ...


 I don't know the model number off hand. I'll try to get it for you when we train tomorrow.

My dog is an extremely fast tracker but I've slowed him down over the last couple years. He still pulls very hard and yes, the harness allows him to keep his head down. It is very sturdy and uses aluminum positive lock military grade buckles. It is strong enough to carry the dog like a suitcase. I had the Redline style harness before and I found it puts too much stress on the shoulders. Also...a slick dog will squirt right out of the Redline if you're not careful and fit it right.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Yes, it's very similar. But I've had the nylon made harness create galls and rub marks on my thin hair coated GSPs so I stick with leather if possible.


Yes, all the trailing vids have a harness on. I haven't posted any of the off-lead ones. When you fit a harness with a Y-front, you tighten up the shoulder straps until the top of the Y joint is below or even with the top of the dog's breastbone. You want the legs of the Y, resting comfortably in the slope of the shoulder. That way the Y is not putting any pressure on the neck. If you tighten the shoulder straps to put the Y above the breast bone then, yes, it can put pressure on the throat.


If the dog has a deep teardrop chest (pointers, Dobis, some BH's, etc) then you may have to lengthen the bottom leg of the Y, where it goes between the front legs, to clear the elbows. Found this out the hard way when my first dog developed huge gall sores behind both his front legs. I had Ray Allen add 2 inches to the chest strap to let the bottom of the belly strap move away from the elbows and that solved that. This may not be necessary if the dog has the double coat but my GSPs are a bit thin in the hair in that region. 


Some of the harness makers add a buckle on the chest strap to allow for adjustment but I found to much vegetation got caught up in the buckle or knocked against the foreleg.


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

Nicole Stark said:


> sefi sahar said:
> 
> 
> > another question did you guys ever tried tracking with the y front while the leash is attached to the lower side of the Y "leg" so the leash goes underneath the dog?
> ...


thanks nicky
thos harness are very similar to the sled dog harness i tried. but they are even supose to use on lower hold point than the sled harness.
when it pulls somthing higher than the dog spine like human whast or chest i suspect there will be troubles. i train on tracking with my body low somtime but try to do it for a mile or so and it will kill your back.
another disadvantage to it are 
- you have near to 0 control on the dog with it due to the far rear hold point. 
- it clumsy (dont know if thats the right english word for it) for a tactical tracking in a terrain full with brunches and wires and stuff..


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

Howard Knauf said:


> sefi sahar said:
> 
> 
> > thank you Howard.
> ...


thank you. your harness sounds very good for our needs. it will be most helpfull.


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## sefi sahar (Dec 15, 2011)

thank you Sarah for the helpful info.
i will try to track a short with a Y harness we have in storage if its the right for her tracking style i probably buy one like yours or Howard...




Sarah Platts said:


> Yes, it's very similar. But I've had the nylon made harness create galls and rub marks on my thin hair coated GSPs so I stick with leather if possible.
> 
> 
> Yes, all the trailing vids have a harness on. I haven't posted any of the off-lead ones. When you fit a harness with a Y-front, you tighten up the shoulder straps until the top of the Y joint is below or even with the top of the dog's breastbone. You want the legs of the Y, resting comfortably in the slope of the shoulder. That way the Y is not putting any pressure on the neck. If you tighten the shoulder straps to put the Y above the breast bone then, yes, it can put pressure on the throat.
> ...


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

http://m.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=29404

My girl is fast and pulls HARD hard, and this is what I have moved to for both dogs. I like the leather alot, but if a dog is one to slip out of harness like my boy, well it can be trouble... Both dogs can lower their noses and pull to their hearts content without rub, or choke and even distribution of weight..


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sefi, The Defender harness is the one we use. I got thrown off a bit by the extra nylon flaps shown in the catalog pic. They are removeable from what I'm told.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Sefi, The Defender harness is the one we use. I got thrown off a bit by the extra nylon flaps shown in the catalog pic. They are removeable from what I'm told.




I was wondering the same thing. I couldn't figure out why the flaps are there. Structural integrity? Or because it just looks cool?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

So, Sefi did you find what you were looking for?


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I've got a cool tracking harness. I bought all kinds of expensive ones and none of them suited my dogs. Then in "pets at home" which is the uk equiv of petsmart I found one that was dirt cheap and worked really well.It doesn't restrict breathing at all or movement. It does however have one drawback which is if you don't adjust it perfectly equal each side of the belly strap it rides to one side or the other and does my nut in.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Does your nut in? What are you doing wearing this harness Matt? You got a wild side that we don't know about?


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Lol! That's how rumors get started! 

I used to have the same problem (with my dog, not me) with the harness rolling to one side, but the harness I use now is outstanding and doesn't shift at all, nor restrict neck/head set and the dog can pull to hearts (and my aggravation) content without trouble. I've used it for a year now and love it. Bought a 2nd for other dog so I don't have to adjust each time


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

LOLZ.

The problem I found with seeing pictures of equipment is that they're not shown with the dog using it. Your harness looks interesting, do you have any pictures or videos of your dog in it?

Matt, feel free to demonstrate, um... show your set up too.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

#-o Matt if you do I'm going to poke my eyes out with a red hot ice pick. 8-[


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> #-o Matt if you do I'm going to poke my eyes out with a red hot ice pick. 8-[


Bob, This isn't for you...... Its for us girls. We are always looking for good harnesses that, ummmm, don't do the nuts in.....lol


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

lol, you guys are funny 

Does my nut in= annoys the crap out of me.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> #-o Matt if you do I'm going to poke my eyes out with a red hot ice pick. 8-[


Ah ha, his weakness has been exposed. Thanks Bob. :twisted:


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

I will try to get a pic of the dogs in harness and on line so you can see. The way it is spread out allows for stability and broader pull displacement


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Yes, I'd really like that. I don't know if you can do this because it would require a video but I'd like to see an example of hard pulling in action on this harness. 

Matt, so if annoying is somehow aligned to a nut being done in do you call nuts something else there? Yeah, probably balls huh? I'm trying to figure out how what you said ever got associated with annoyance. Maybe irritation to a nut or the nuts is one of the worst kind of annoyances to have?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sarah Platts said:


> Bob, This isn't for you...... Its for us girls. We are always looking for good harnesses that, ummmm, don't do the nuts in.....lol



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

In Wales your "nut" is your head


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

#-o:lol:


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Trying to get a picture while working the dog by myself is, well, impossible, lol.. I will try to get pics on my girl and my boy working and standing.. But for now.. Her is one pic with my boy


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

obviously you're happy with the harness, so this is just a suggestion from the angle i could see the pic

if that dog works in heavy brush that floppy handle on top might get it hung up. it's obviously not gonna be used to rappel or other LLC applications so i would consider cutting it off as a preventative measure even tho it hasn't been caught up in it yet. looks like there are plenty of places on the harnesses already that you could use if you need to grab/restrain it. my second option would be to secure it but not so strong that you couldn't break it loose if you really wanna keep it

a lot of people don't believe a dog can be caught by a collar but i know some hunters that swear by the twist ring collars they use, and i've had my dog get hung up in brush when he was only wearing a collar and he wasn't even hunting /LOL/

it probably also depends on the individual dog and how aggressively they will run thru heavy cover ... over/under/thru


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

Haven't had any issues with that and we go through wicked brush sometimes, but they only wear the harness while Trailing, so the line is more apt to get hung up then anything else. The handle has been useful for other things but could be an issue for others in their endeavors with their dogs. I am thrilled with the harness and have used it for over a year on numerous missions and training. But what floats my boat may not others, lol. I was concerned the small amount of felt might be sticker attractors but it hasn't been.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

To help keep the collar from catching brush, it must be buckled snug to the neck. 

Most like to leave it loose enough under the premise that if the dog gets caught, the dog can pull the collar off over their heads. From my experience leaving the collar that loose encourages things to get caught under it and allows enough play to get twisted by the dog locking up the stangulation hazard. My collars do have the center ring. I don't know if it helps or hurts but I have seen the collars "roll" when the dogs go through fences letting them squeeze through.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks Misty. I appreciate it.


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