# Flirt pole anyone???



## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

I would like to add a flirt pole to my training toys for my new pup to assist in drive building.
I've seen how one works on the Internet and some books. My regular sources of canine gear don't stock them.
Does anyone have any ideas on where to order one? I would prefer a Canadian company, less hassle about shipping, but as long as the U.S. company will ship to Canada that's okay as well.
Oh, and do most of them come with real sheepskin, fur, leather, or what?
Thanks a bunch!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Just go to Rona or Home-depot get a 6 foot or so Bamboo pole (that they sell for tying up plants) and tie an old chamois or piece of burlap to it. Voila instant Flirt pole for under $10!


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

I use a long horse whip you can buy at a any feed store.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I use a piece of 1" pvc pipe x 5' long. I tie a small rope that's about 5 to 6' long to it. I attach a small hasp to the other end so that I can snap what ever, burlap, leather to it. When the pup gets his bite I can walk down the rope and unlook the burlap play tug and release it to the pup. He can then run with it as the winner. This is a great drive builder for pups. They love it.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> I use a piece of 1" pvc pipe x 5' long. I tie a small rope that's about 5 to 6' long to it. I attach a small hasp to the other end so that I can snap what ever, burlap, leather to it. When the pup gets his bite I can walk down the rope and unlook the burlap play tug and release it to the pup. He can then run with it as the winner. This is a great drive builder for pups. They love it.


 We do the same. PVC or bamboo that is about 1" or so, use a piece of nylon string and a burlap or cotton rag. I like the pole shorter and the line about 3-4' long.

The idea of the pole is to keep your hand from being the object of their interest. With older dogs we put a long line on a tug and get distance that way.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I have made a horse whip one and also the last piece of an old fishing pole with the handle at the end. You can use burlap or whatever you want, even a smaller kitchen or hand towel.


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

I use an old golf club and attach a piece of rope and a tennis ball. A little different, but both of my GSD's (18 mos. and 2yrs) will go crazy for it. I am planning on switching the rope for some fishing line so that they do not target the rope.

Terry


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Terry Devine said:


> I use an old golf club and attach a piece of rope and a tennis ball. A little different, but both of my GSD's (18 mos. and 2yrs) will go crazy for it. I am planning on switching the rope for some fishing line so that they do not target the rope.
> 
> Terry


Fishing line may be a bit sharp on the dog's gums/lips if the targeting is off. I would also thing it would be cut in a heartbeat if the dog gets it in his cutting molar. 
Targeting can be controlled by the handler. JMHO! :wink:


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I use a horsewhip also, and tie a couple knots in the line, so that you can choke up the distance, and offer some good resistance for the older pups, while tapping them with the butt-end of the handle. I don't usually employ the flirt pole until around 4 months or older, to develop targeting technique, natural drives will manifest regardless of any time lapse.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

I do a LOT of flirt pole work with my pups. I use 6' piece of bamboo, about 6' of some fairly thin rope and a piece of upholtery leather scrap. I like to be able to whip the item away from them quickly if they drop it or loosen their grip and the horse/buggy whip and PVC have too much flexibility for me.


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Thanks for all your replies so far!

I've used bamboo poles for beans and tomatoes, maybe I'll try one out.

I don't think my dad will give up one of his golf clubs.:lol: 

I'm leaning towards the horse whip. What kind of horse whip? A standardbred whip?

Besides, the whip can also be used for other purposes.......:-\" ;-) :lol:


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Like This

http://cgi.ebay.com/Quality-Importe...ryZ63512QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I saw a "flirt pole" one time. Yeah, it had a dirty biker chick clinging to it with dollars in her thong. Beer was $5.00 a throw.............no! [-X


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

I also use a horse whip...with burlap tied to the end-but only use the flirt pole for my puppies-the little ones..5-6weeks old to start....we try to get them to the tug and the puppy sleeve as soon as we can.... Terry hope your doing well,..... I don't think it would be good to change it to fishing line...and should Yaro or Coach target the line and hurt their mouth...there goes that game...don't feel good, they aren't going to do that anymore-no matter how much they want that ball...be careful. ... Mo


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## Kris Finison (Nov 26, 2007)

We also use a buggy whip with burlap tied onto the "popper" on the end.
Can't beat it for price, movement and durability, IMO.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I would just like to add my own personal feelings on the subject, as I really consider dogs that need this kind of stimulation kinda pointless, as their thresholds are way too high.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Jeff- I don't look at using the flirt pole as "stimulation"...but I can't send a 6 week or 8 week old on the suit from the get/go...even if it is a Mal.....got to get the foundation down first...before you go on to the big stuff....so that is where we start....depends on the pup.... for example our12 week old is on the "puppy" sleeve right now....Mo


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have only had to use them with clients dogs whose thresholds were to high to just be able to do the work without that kind of super fast movement. Just trying to get out to the N00bs that if you need to build drive in your dog, then what is the point??? I see people all the time talking about their high drive dogs, but then go on to describe all the drive building they have to do. Nothing sucks more than trying to lower the stupid high thresholds that breeders love to see.


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

Jeff,

A couple of quick comments concerning your post that need addressing.

First you need to change your location information; it is inaccurate and might be potentially misleading.

Second, the simple reality of it is that the vast majority of dogs not only benefit from this type of foundational training but require it. You are coming from a standpoint on a particular type of dog that is by far the exception and not the rule. 

People who are getting a start in the working dog world in my opinion should build and develop drives within their dogs; it develops a deeper more in-depth understanding of what is actually going on with the dog and creates a true sense of appreciation for dogs that later come with all the tools that now have to be channeled and controlled vs. built and developed. 

Maybe a tad off subject here, yet I have a tendency to stray from time to time. I might have also misunderstood where you were going with this, it happens. I mean come on; I’m not that smart and your not that literate.

Wayne


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Okay, first of all this will be a small standard poodle. Yes you read right!=D> Not a dobe, GSD, or a Mal. This dog will be working in agility, competition obedience, field, and maybe tracking. 

I just wanted to get some information on flirt poles as a way for the pup to chase and grip something in preparation for tug work.  

If I shouldn't/don't need to use a flirt pole, but should/could get a leather bite rag on a rope, etc. please let me know. 

It is my first "working dog" in my chosen breed and I just wanted some info. I do plan on purchasing the Flinks Drive Focus and Grip DVD and I have other Leerburg ones as well.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I have only had to use them with clients dogs whose thresholds were to high to just be able to do the work without that kind of super fast movement. Just trying to get out to the N00bs that if you need to build drive in your dog, then what is the point??? Nothing sucks more than trying to lower the stupid high thresholds that breeders love to see.


I understand that either a dog has it or it doesn't simple as that. But how does one know if they don't *bring out* that drive through use of tugs, kongs, balls on a string or the infamous flirt pole? I've never had to use a flirt pole but see it just as a tool in the box if someone needed it.

Also could you clarify what you mean by


> stupid high thresholds


 ? High thresholds of what? I'm curious.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Not to answer for Jeff but the flirt pole's faster/quicker movement can often bring out a less drivy pup. If you don't understand what your looking at it can give you a false sense of the puppy's drive.
I like to see a pup that can get really excited over a simple rag played in front of them.


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Thank you Bob!!! Gee, I still remember when you were "Old Earth Dog" over on Leerburg.:lol: 

Maybe I'll just get a leather bite rag instead. I'll buy one for the breeder too so she can use it on the litter. She already has puppy agility equipment, a natural stream through her property (for introduction to water) and I believe gives the pups bird wings (for field).


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I don't think it's a question of whether or not to use a flirt pole, it can have very useful and different purposes, whether the prey drive is strong or not. My Tiekerhook pup was introduced to it at 4 months old for about 10 or 15 minutes, and never saw it again until 10 months old about a week ago. It allows me to manipulate his movement and targeting with greater speed than I could with any other tool, to challenge him better. And with all that extra leverage even so, it's still challenging for me to keep it from him, his speed and maneuverability is incredible. But my focus with it is not "building" drive, but rather tuning and refining his athletic ability, and using the moments when he's "loaded" in that elevated state, to lower his threshold of receptiveness to my instructions.

Wayne says: _"People who are getting a start in the working dog world in my opinion should build and develop drives within their dogs; it develops a deeper more in-depth understanding of what is actually going on with the dog and creates a true sense of appreciation for dogs that later come with all the tools that now have to be channeled and controlled vs. built and developed. "_

What he says may be true, but it's not "right" in my opinion. Nothing is more frustrating than trying to learn something new, and not have the adequate "tools" for the job. I don't need to drive the Flintstone-mobile to appreciate the diesel hog I drive today ;-)


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Maybe I'll just buy everything and have the puppy point to what he wants to play with!!!:mrgreen:


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I find that dogs are sometimes "toy-specific", that's not really a bad idea. Once you imprint the behavior with one toy, you can transition it to a more useful toy for later training. Just as an example, I had one dog that just didn't work for the tug, but was very excited about the rope-ball, but the tug is more useful for transitioning to protectionwork. It didn't take long at all (a few sessions, I think) to get really good results with the tug.


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

Daryl, 

I come from a relatively poor background, my first vehicle I bought with money that I earned working at a sod farm when I was 15. It was an old Ford Ranger, a small 4 banger with a manual transmission and a faulty starter. I push started that thing for the better part of seven months before I saved up enough money (hard to do at that age) to buy a starter. That truck brings back many fond memories, yet until you have a truck like that you never understand the value of something new with a diesel engine, extended cab and four wheel drive. 

I started in working dogs with a show line Doberman, ya wanna talk about tough! It taught me many things about transitioning through drives, handler help, and development. I must admit that the majority of these tools are useless with the dogs I work today, they simply play no factor into the dogs training, yet the vision that started to develop from that dog has always helped me with what I now consider true working dogs.

It is easy to say you appreciate something that has all the bells and whistles, yet unless you have experienced the other side of the coin very few people truly comprehend what it is I am saying. I am not saying that you do not, only that it is a rarity indeed.

I however never intended to give off the impression that I feel as though people starting out in the sport should be given crap, no never. I was trying to say that you would never appreciate a dog the same if the first one you owned went on to be the biggest baddest decoy killer in the whole friggin world. I person starting in the sport should start with a entry level working dog, a dog with all the tools, they just need to be dug out of the tool chest.

Just my take though… everyone has one.

Wayne


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Wayne, I was barely able to get the old info in, and with the computer that I am borrowing at my apt complex office, it could be days to change the info. ](*,) 

I think with my statement I was trying to raise the expectations of new puppy buyers, as there seems to be a lot of new people here. I do not use a flirt pole anymore, as honestly, I do not want to promote some slug of a dog to Mondioring, if I even could flirt pole or not. LOL

Too many people accept pups that are crap, and a flirt pole is one way of getting the dud to have a go. In the end, the dog is still shit, and you wasted a lot of time. Just adding the truth to what a flirt pole really can mean. 

If your dog has enough drive, then you can make him a bit hectic by getting him a bit too nuts with a flirt pole.

In my opinion, if you are "building drive" which half the time is just busting high thresholds, you are wasting time. Get a dog with proper thresholds and watch how much better you like him.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

If you have to build drive, and you want to do sport, your dog is essentially "crap" (at least in the context of sport), so I do not advocate drive building for beginners, and non-beginners simply wouldn't stand for it. Like taking a knife to a gunfight, or tightening a lug nut with a screwdriver.

If anything, discouraged newcomers would tend to leave the sport, giving up, before they acquire more suitable replacements. If they want a positive learning experience (and they probably do if they're going to go through the time and expense), they can still learn (and enjoy) more "drifting technique" when they're not wasting their time putting air in their tires or fixing flats. You wouldn't take that Ford Ranger to compete in the Indy500? Or even a local stock car race?

I understand very few dogs will ever be so perfect, but the closest you can get will cause the least regret. I know what it means to have "less", and I've never been inclined to settle for it. If someone _really truly wants_ to do sport, they wouldn't either.


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

Jeff,

I appreciate the effort; I had to find something to pick at ya about. 

I agree that most new people out there accept pet type dogs as a working animal, and this needs to be addressed to help educate the new members of the dog world. I also feel as though what your perception of a solid working dog and the perception of what most consider a solid working dog is also quite different. The simple reality of it is most working animals need drive building; this is not a bad thing. The dogs that need direction vs. drive building are usually way more then most want to deal with.


Daryl,

Here is the truth of the matter, 95% of dogs doing sport work today have required drive development to be successful in what they are doing. I feel as though our opinions of a truly high drive dog are different and how we perceive drive building is quite different. I do not feel as though a dog that needs drive building is “crap” otherwise I would feel that way about nearly every dog that I come into contact with. My perception of things based upon how I understand your responses is on a different field all together (not better or worse, just different), it would take actual interaction with the type of dogs we work to truly see where the other person was coming from. 

It is easy to sit here and say that you wouldn’t bring a Ford Ranger to the Indy 500 yet how many people are ready to climb into a competitive car and race in the Indy competently without causing massive amounts of damage too themselves, the other racers or the car itself when they first enter the sport… I can guarantee you that a very small percentage is capable of that feat, it would simply be foolish to think otherwise.

You say people that truly want to do sport work would not settle for less, yet I say most people do it every day and are happy with their decisions. A dog that is in the opinion of many an excellent working dog is simply something I would not waste my time owning. Then again a lot of people want nothing to do with my type of dog either, to each their own…

I appreciate your insight and the time you have taken to respond to my comments yet based upon how I understand what you are saying we will never come to an agreement on this particular matter without working dogs together, too much is open for interpretation of typed words.

Oh, and on the knife too a gun fight deal, give me twenty feet and I will take the knife all day long.

Wayne


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

You're probably right, in that I don't know what you mean by drive building. What I do know, is that a dog with otherwise great qualities for work is no fun at all in sport training if the prey drive is insufficient. I've tried various techniques recommended to compensate for this, with unsatisfactory results, and don't care to again. I have "learned to appreciate" proper working drives, for certain, and have no fond memories without them. My opinion is, if you set out with a purpose, choose the proper equipment for the job. Unless, of course, you're MacGuyver and a stick of gum and a paperclip will do.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> but the flirt pole's faster/quicker movement can often bring out a less drivy pup. If you don't understand what your looking at it can give you a false sense of the puppy's drive.
> I like to see a pup that can get really excited over a simple rag played in front of them.


That makes sense, I got pretty spoiled (not to mention lucky) by my pup my first working dog and she has drive through the wazoo. If I didn't know any better I would've assumed that all working line pups were on that level. Thanks for the clarification Bob and Jeff for bringing it up.


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