# Best Breed for First Schutzhund Prospect



## Justin Vines

I am currently looking for my first Schutzhund prospect and I had a few questions about what breed I should be looking at. I have experience with American Bulldogs and I have trained them in weight pull, basic obedience, and utility work. I have been discussing the use of ABs in Schutzhund with some of my bulldog friends that train for Schutzhund. Most have said that they would be very frustrating for a novice Schutzhund trainer like myself and others have said that starting with an AB would be a good learning experience. While I would love to work with ABs, I am afraid that if my first attempt was overwhelmingly frustrating I would be discouraged from continuing in the sport. For this reason, I have been researching other breeds more suited for Schutzhund work.

I am a junior in college and I will be living in a trailer without a formal yard, so the dog will be living inside with me. I have an open field next to the trailer where I can exercise and train with the dog. I am also joining a Schutzhund club in my area. My reason for getting the dog is to push myself and my dog physically and mentally and to (hopefully) be competitive in club events and maybe regional events. So my question is: Should I try to "do it the hard way" with an AB or should I start with a breed more suited for Schutzhund work (I have been leaning towards a Dutch Shepherd, so any input on them specifically would also be appreciated).

Thanks so much (and sorry for the long post),
Justin


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## Mike Scheiber

Schutzhund origin started and still is a breed test for the German Shepherd dog I may suggest that the German Shepherd would be best suited for Schutzhund :-k


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## Daniel Cox

Since you are new to Schutzhund. Here is my advice. I will start by saying I am partial to the WORKING German Shepherds for Schutzhund. I think the working German Shepherd has been engineered for Schutzhund. German Shepherds are not always the best in the 3 phases but are generally well rounded in all phases. I think the working German Shepherd will allow you the best opportunity to achieve success in Schutzhund. I am not saying other breeds can not do this at all. I am not trying to start a fight with other breeds. This is just my opinion.

So how do I find a good German Shepherd?
1. Raise a puppy or puppies? NO...
Too difficult and takes too long.
2. Get a 6month-4 year old working male w/ or without titles. Just get something that has a grip and drive to work.

I would look around at all the clubs around you and go and visit multiple times. Do a lot of watching and start understanding what a good Schutzhund dog/prospect looks like. Many people say they want this or that but have no idea what this or that looks like. I am not totally sure where you are located but you can bring your ass to Kentucky and check out our club. I will show you shit and the good stuff. Most clubs have some of both. Get something that fits you and your goals. I think the best way to recognize a good dog is to see many many dogs and then you be the judge for yourself. Watch training in tracking, obedience and protection. You can learn a lot about a dog by watching drive for tracking and obedience. Remember Schutzhund has 3 phases and the dog must do all 3 phases to achieve SCH1, SCH2 or SCH3.

Since you are doing Schutzhund this is what you need to look for in my opinion..

1. Temperament and nerves(must be friendly and no handler issues)
2. GRIP on a Sleeve must be full and firm. This counts for so many
points in Schutzhund so it must have a good grip.
3. Drive for toy or ball. If the dog has extreme drive for a toy it sure
does makes training and playtime fun.
4. Food drive. Very important for tracking and teaching obedience. I believe this is a overlooked drive.

Once you have decided on what you want then do not settle for less. Save your money and get the dog that will last. If you get a half ass dog for schutzhund you will end up collecting that dog and getting another dog once you figured out what is going on in schutzhund.

Remember the dog that I describe is not your standard pet. He is high drive and ready and willing to please you at all times. Once you find this dog you must do him justice and compete with him in some dog sport. Do not buy this dog and then decide to make him a pet. Making this dog a pet is not fair to the dog.

Things that are not important. Do not get caught up in breeding characteristics like number of teeth, color, coat and conformation. You are looking for a dog that can work and thats it. I do not think you are looking for the next big stud dog and doubt you will find him.

Just my opinion. 
Where are you located? I remember something about Alabama...


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## Mike Schoonbrood

GSD



> I have been leaning towards a Dutch Shepherd, so any input on them specifically would also be appreciated


Not for a first timer.


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## Daniel Cox

I see you said something about Central Alabama Schutzhund Club in a previous post. If this is the club you are going to then you should be in good hands. Eric Eisenberg was the USA National Champion. With that level of talent I am doubtful you will have an issue finding a nice German Shepherd. I also suggest you go and see Gary Hanrahan's Club, they also do top level sport training. I think there is some bad blood between Gary and Central Alabama but you will find that the Schutzhund world is full of this BULL SHIT. I also suggest you go to Wallace Payne's club. With the level of talent you have surrounding you it will not take you long to find a good club that will fit your personality and training goals. Remember to keep an open mind and not get caught up in all the politics. This is a very big decision and you control what you and your dog want to accomplish.

Here is the link to the clubs in your region..
http://www.southeasternregionusa.com/clubpage.htm


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## Gillian Schuler

I would also suggest a GSD or Mali as these are the two best working breeds for sport. I wouldn't suggest getting an adult dog. I would suggest getting a pup and working with it with a trainer to help you, and with good advice from this forum. This way you can mould him to how you want him. For me a dog is not *just *a "good Schutzhund prospect" but a bugbear that will add a lot of aggravation but also a lot of fun to your life.

If you think 3 years a young dog, 3 years a good dog, 3 years an old dog, you'll buy a pup and have fun and aggravation.

I also started working trials with dogs that were not good schutzhund prospects. But, I learned a lot from them. I think you have to decide if you want to learn how to train a dog in a certain sport or if you want to be out there on the podest with your first dog. I'll never regret training with the "exotics" but having "teethed" on them I later wanted to have a dog that has a "starting chance" in IPO or Mondioring. 

ABs are surely fun to train and I can't think they'd be a frustration - you just have to realise you'll not be out there in the first ten. As for the GSD not being best for all three phases?? Where does he foul??? It has the nose, the obedience and the drive to bite. But the Malinois also.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Justin Vines

Thanks for all the great advice and please keep it coming! I really would like to start with a puppy. Although I could see results faster with an adult, I enjoy working with puppies and having them around (even with all their aggravation!). I also think this would help me in the long run because I would be involved in the entire training process.


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## Mike Scheiber

Justin Vines said:


> Thanks for all the great advice and please keep it coming! I really would like to start with a puppy. Although I could see results faster with an adult, I enjoy working with puppies and having them around (even with all their aggravation!). I also think this would help me in the long run because I would be involved in the entire training process.


There few better feelings or powder moments than taking your first pup to SCH III


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## Patrick Murray

Get a Hyena. They have great "calm" grips and NEVER let go.


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## Justin Vines

I don't know. If I got a Hyena I might get "laughed" at...


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## Howard Gaines III

Justin the Dutch and Malinois are very close, not a good call for the first timer. Since you are a college student, they may be a good choice, you will be drinking yourself crazy!](*,) 

Many working/herding dogs have issues with being crated inside. Even being in a kennel outside can be stressful. I would look into a West German working lines shepherd. Find someone who breeds and the background has many SCH II or III titles in the lines. You will spend in the neighborhood of $1,500 for a puppy. 

Next step is to find a helper who understands working lines dogs and the sport. Go slow and enjoy the experience. Other option is a young titled dog, SCH I or BH, and go from there. $3,000+/-. :-k


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## Alex Corral

I also say a good working lines GSD - this coming from someone who trains Boxers and is a HUGE Bulldog fan. Mals are too much for most beginners IMO.


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## Terry Fisk

Mike Scheiber said:


> There few better feelings or powder moments than taking your first pup to SCH III


Mike, I can't agree with you more! Brings a true meaning to HOT too :lol:


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## Michelle Reusser

I train with people who breed Dutchies and Bulldogs. She just told me in her opinion Dutchies are by far the hardest dogs to train and deal with. They can be very tempermental and sensetive. Bulldogs she said are second,(hard to find a good one) then the Mal. Lemme just say, they are getting rid of allot of dogs and buying GSD's. Kinda says it all. I love their bulldogs but I wouldn't buy one for working, just a pet. My GSD's learn quickly and I think I would be irritated taking 2 steps back and making more work for myself.


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## Mario Fernandez

Justin:

I would go with a GSD. Hard to find a good AB prospect, health issues, temperament, majority of the AB breeders are full of them selves and would likely charge you more for an AB pup than a Mal and GSD pup. Plus if you get the Mal or GSD and the dog doesn’t work out for you have options…you can sell them to many different venues like another handler in SCH, police K9, SAR, bomb dogs, ect…. I have two older AB and a GSD. I would not trade my experience working my Abs for anything. They taught me a lot and today I am a better handler for it. However it is night and day training a AB vs. GSD…I have had much more fun working my GSD and love the dog, he has character, other than the hair and the screaming they are not that bad. I will always own AB, I love the breed.

You are in a unique situation as you are in an area that is a hotbed for Sch. Take your time in looking for whatever breed you decide on, there is no rush. Also be realistic on the type of the dog you want especially since you are starting in the sport. Know your limitations and the time you have to commit. I would look for something with medium drive. A lot of people want over the top drives and when they get a dog with these attributes, they don’t know what to do with it and much more of a headache and not fun for a new handler. With you being in school you may not have a lot of time to train as much as you like. Anyways this is just a suggestion from one AB owner to the other. 

Best of luck in your search and remember to have fun, this is what it is all about.

Regards,

Mario Fernandez


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## Russ Spencer

"I don't know. If I got a Hyena I might get "laughed" at..."

Only once!


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## Gerry Grimwood

Justin Vines said:


> (I have been leaning towards a Dutch Shepherd, so any input on them specifically would also be appreciated).
> Justin


What Mike said plus if it's Sch you want to do, best to get the breed the sport was made for.


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## todd pavlus

the GSD is not #1 at anything, But they are #2 at everything. They are the most well rounded.=D>


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## Justin Vines

Thanks for all the input guys. Everyone has made some great points. I have decided that a Dutchie or Mal is not for me (yet). I believe that some of the guys in my local club have worked with ABs, so I want to really get to know them and talk to them about my training goals and objectives. Hopefully, they can either vow to support me in my quest to work with an AB or help me find a good GSD in the area because, like someone said earlier, I am in a great place for SchH and I think I will have plenty of support. Stay tuned b/c I am sure once I get my pup I will reporting back to ya'll for more advice!

Thanks again,
Justin


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## Alex Corral

I may some day own a GSD as I have grown to really like this breed due to my experiences as a decoy and seeing them work. I will however tell you that I will always work a Boxer or some kind of Bulldog. It may be a pain in the ass and yeah, you may never compete at nationals and bla bla bla. But, if you have a love for a certain breed, I think you owe it to that breed to do your part to better it. 

From your questions, I still say GSD, and if you ever get a chance to work another AB, don't pass it up.


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## tracey schneider

Justin, 
who is your local club and what is there experience with abs? I have "some" experience with abs...........:-$ 

t


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## Justin Vines

My local club is the Central Alabama Schutzhund Club. It is run by Gary Cooper and Kurt Hertrich. I talked to some of my bulldogger friends who have worked with the folks at the CASC before and they said that they had experience with bully breeds, so I'm not sure how much experience that means. I haven't had the opportunity to meet the folks at the club yet because the class I am taking this summer meets at the same time as their training sessions, but they have some training sessions on the weekend so I am going to try and make one of those.


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