# Which breed for us??



## Alex Ferry (Nov 27, 2009)

Hi,
My name is Alex, I live in Phila, PA and me and my fiancée need some help as to which breed would suit our lifestyle best. We are both dog lovers and are an active couple. We are both runners and run approx 15-25 miles per week and go hiking as well. We are looking for a great family dog that can keep up with us with protective instincts bc I am a firefighter and work nights on some days leaving my fiancée alone (she also runs alone sometimes too). *We have both grown up with dogs (Rotties) but this would be our first dog together. We are very much willing to put the time and energy needed to train and raise a happy dog. We have looked in to GSD, Dobes and Dutchies to name a few (were not restricted to just those breeds), but we would like to hear the opinions of owners of these breeds. Which breed(s) do you believe would make a "perfect" match. THANKS


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Are you looking for a working dog, or should we refer you to the AKC ??

It sounds like you are looking for a pet.


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Alex,
Way too many variables in any ones lifestyle for someone else to say what makes a perfect pet for someone else. But I would make a few observations as to what to put as priority. I'm sure you have done all your homework or you would not have taken the trouble to post here. So with the grooming, exercise, living space, etc., questions already looked into consider this.

Every day of your life you will be looking at this creature that your feeding and housing. No matter how practical we like to say we are, no matter how realistic, if we don't like it's looks we are not happy campers. There is a reason the used car dealers insist on keeping the cars shiny, they know that if humans are not attracted in the first two glances, they will not be selling the car. 

The same rule applies to a dog. I get this question every few weeks from customers and I tell them to do their research on the breeds and then get it down to three or four breeds. Dogs are really much more alike, than they are different. So when you have the big questions answered get a whole bunch of photos, or now videos, of your pick breeds and think of the one that you will be the proudest to be seen walking, or running down the street with. That is the dog for you, the one you would take a second look at if you saw it on the street.

All the facts and advice in the world mean nothing, if every time you go to feed you say to yourself "That is one plain Jane looking dog" You will always raise the dog you deserve, no matter the breed, you should at least enjoy looking at him.

Butch Cappel
www.k9ps.com


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Working on a pet! ](*,)


----------



## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

Pretty much most dogs will go jogging or hiking in the woods with you, or bark when a stranger approaches the house. 

Your request is too ambiguous to narrow it down to just one breed or2.


----------



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

I would say a well-bred Doberman. When raised & trained properly, I don't think they can be beat as a protector & easiest to keep as a pet. They'll run forever or just follow you around the house. They are happy to be with content to follow you around the house, very playful-they'll play rough or gentle.

They need to be heavily socialized & you this is one breed that needs to be around people. They love to cuddle & are just thrilled to be around family. They will carry through with an attack. I love the breed.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Well, I would say an Airedale. Great natural protection sense, knows what needs biting, great with people, smart. faithful. Like Butch said, ya got to like looking at them.


----------



## patrick ganley (Oct 6, 2009)

I've got a Dutchie that I train and compete with. I also run him through the woods with me and he's just an incredible dog. Whatever I want to do he's up for it and can keep up and wear me out. These dogs are limitless. When i'm home he just lays at my feet and relaxes. When it's time to work or play he fires up. A dutch would be a good companion for you guys running. Remember though they are bred to work so he needs an activity for himself also, it's only fair. Plus when you see them work you might find yourself a new hobby too like ring sport. PP etc. Good luck to you
Patrick


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Duck Toller:mrgreen: He won't lead the robbers to your silverwear like a golden. More active, edgier, drivier. He doesn't have pointy ears though. But if you are not going to do protection work....though I think that lots would work out as well as some other off breeds actually....but I don't actually reccommend that.

I always think it is cool to work a dog in what it was bred for. Think about that. If you want to spend a bunch of time working a great dog what do YOU want to be doing....protection work, hunting boars, hearding sheep, shooting ducks, retriever trials.....doggy dancing (WINK)....and the list goes on.

If you just want a dog to go hiking and running with as a good companion and active pet...I would adopt one from the spca.


----------



## Alex Ferry (Nov 27, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your responses! Please keep them coming!

I understand the dogs I listed above are working dogs and I am looking for more of a pet. I listed those dogs specifcally bc I wanted more opinions about them for us from ppl who weren't selling them. I have emailed breeders who told me a dutchie would be perfect for us and others who warned us they need to be mentally exercised and not just physically. We are far from making a decision on the best breed for us...were just trying to obtain all the info we can to help us make this decision. 

Other breeds we have looked at are the rhodesian ridgeback, Airedale (like Don mentioned), American bulldog and Boxer to name a few.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Alex Ferry said:


> I have emailed breeders who told me a dutchie would be perfect for us


That breeder is a lying sack o shit.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

True. Of course my vote goes for what I call the medium drive GSD although I'm not usually big on the jogging aspect. 

Terrasita


----------



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

Ever think about a Black Russian Terrier? We're training a little girl--the family has 4 children from 14yo-4yo. She was chosen as a pet quality, yet she will be protective. One of the most compliant, willing to please & easy to train puppies ever.


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

I'm going with Terrasita on this one. A nice GSD that has a on/off switch. Perfect


----------



## Alex Ferry (Nov 27, 2009)

Gerry, when the breeder told me that I was kinda skeptical about that from the info I found on my own. 

Never looked into a Black Russian Terrier, Sue. I will check them out. 

Are gsd able to run 10-12 miles at a time w/o problem?


----------



## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Alex Ferry said:


> Gerry, when the breeder told me that I was kinda skeptical about that from the info I found on my own.
> 
> Never looked into a Black Russian Terrier, Sue. I will check them out.
> 
> Are gsd able to run 10-12 miles at a time w/o problem?


I would hope so, the AD is 12 miles and the GSD is suppossed to pass that running next to a bike (faster than you probably run).

Each dog is an individual though and some dogs like to run, others don't. Just like people. I have one that lives to run and his full brother who goes as slow as possible so I will finally stop and just let him back into the pickup. Same dog will run all day, if I just throw the ball for him instead.

I also think a GSD is your best bet for athletasism, yet chill enough to be a "pet".


----------



## Anna Van Kovn (Aug 24, 2009)

Get a giant schnauzer. Active breed. No hair in home. Will keep you company with running and hiking.


----------



## eric squires (Oct 16, 2008)

Hello Alex of course Dutchies can make great pet/companion dogs. All the breeds it sounds like you are interested in are high energy dogs.If you don't put the time and work into training whatever dog you get you are in for trouble. Do you want a couch potato or a dog that you can run with and have fun.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

eric squires said:


> Hello Alex of course Dutchies can make great pet/companion dogs.


That may be true in some cases, maybe the purebred/AKC/FCI types or just a cull.

I've owned 2 mixed Dutchies and neither has had a pet/companion personality, they both liked me..barely tolerated my wife and hated everyone else. Nice dogs though, current dog broke the cartilage in my 2 middle finger knuckles due to a leash accident (my fault) and the first gave me a limp in my right leg :lol:

Couldn't run with either, they'd just knock you over eventually.


----------



## Pia Porko (Oct 8, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Duck Toller:mrgreen: He won't lead the robbers to your silverwear like a golden. More active, edgier, drivier. He doesn't have pointy ears though. But if you are not going to do protection work....though I think that lots would work out as well as some other off breeds actually....but I don't actually reccommend that.
> 
> I always think it is cool to work a dog in what it was bred for. Think about that. If you want to spend a bunch of time working a great dog what do YOU want to be doing....protection work, hunting boars, hearding sheep, shooting ducks, retriever trials.....doggy dancing (WINK)....and the list goes on.
> 
> If you just want a dog to go hiking and running with as a good companion and active pet...I would adopt one from the spca.


I'd go with Jennifer's suggestion. Our first dog was a toller, my parents got him when I was 8. Neither of my parents had previous experience of dogs. Perfect choice for first dog, active outdoors, laid back indoors. And my dad found himself scrambling through swamps shooting ducks, so he got a new hobby too


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Don with my VAST knowledge of animals, I think that was a curly coated Rottweiler! :---)#-o


----------



## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

One big factor to bear in mind is that the larger breeds of dog... Labs, GSDs etc. have to physically mature.

So you would have to raise said pup for 12-18 months before you could start jogging with it, otherwise you will end up with major hip problems.
You would then have to build up the distance, condition the dog to run that far.

Are you willing to spend all of that time just training the dog, working with it before you can take it with you?

If I were in your shoes I would go to the local SPCA, find a nice mutt. You'll have to do some training but with the adult dog you can start taking it running straight away (albeit not 10 miles).

Most breeds of dogs will be somewhat protective of their owners and you can teach most dogs an alert bark - the deterrant factor of a large dog should be enough.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Tanith Wheeler said:


> One big factor to bear in mind is that the larger breeds of dog... Labs, GSDs etc. have to physically mature...


 The nice thing about a Lab is that you can do LOTS of good water work with them and easy, short sends. The fetching game "baseball" is a good way to blend OB and feather/wing introductions. Also, showing them the directions of L/R/Back.


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2009)

Your local shelter might also have a nice pure bred dog for you that is mature enough for you to know exactly what you are getting. That's the way I'd go if I were looking for a pet. Since you are responsible enough to handle a Rott and are interested in ABs, you might consider a rescued American Pit Bull Terrier, (not an American Bully,) from you local shelter. They are smaller, far more athletic and mine eat less than 2 cups of food per day. They will run as much or as little as you want, and will do nothing but veg just as well, as long as they can be be near you. They are not, however, a guardian breed and are not usually naturally suspicious of people, nor do they bark much, so maybe not exactly what you're looking for.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Alex Ferry said:


> Thanks everyone for your responses! Please keep them coming!
> 
> I understand the dogs I listed above are working dogs and I am looking for more of a pet. I listed those dogs specifcally bc I wanted more opinions about them for us from ppl who weren't selling them. I have emailed breeders who told me a dutchie would be perfect for us and others who warned us they need to be mentally exercised and not just physically. We are far from making a decision on the best breed for us...were just trying to obtain all the info we can to help us make this decision.
> 
> Other breeds we have looked at are the rhodesian ridgeback, Airedale (like Don mentioned), American bulldog and Boxer to name a few.


I think what you have to remember is, is that you need a dog that is "buiilt like a dog who can run for miles". That would include Briards, Beaucerons, Airedales, Dalmatians, Weimaraners, GSDs, Malinois, Dutchies, Great and Middle Schnauers and Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

The only way to get such a dog in my mind is to buy from working lines as these are the only breed associations (in my mind) that breed athletic dogs with good hips (hopefully).

The other thing is, if you run in the forest, you will have to stop your dog from crittering and although there are various hunting breeds, there are others that critter as well. Much work involved. My Briard crittered like hell but I stopped him - work involved!!

On the other hand, you want a dog to protect you. Many won't agree with me but in my experience, the protective instincts of a dog are never limited to a few breeds.

Reading about breeds will not bring you much further - the descriptions of the breeds are nonsensical on the whole.

I can only recommend breed associations that have strict regulations as to HD and ED (elbow dysplasia).

On another point, don't disregard Dutchies, Malinois, etc. Some sport handlers like to think their dogs are unmanageable in the home (kudos) but, don't disregard their comments, either. Some Dutchie, Malinois, GSD kennels do breed dogs that are not manageable in the home as a pet.

I'm going on the fact that you are not a moron and are willing to put a lot of work into such a pup because I have not read anything to the contrary.

If I were you, I would buy a pup and wait until it can run with you - guess you've run without a dog until now, anyway.


----------



## Heath Corte (Sep 1, 2009)

Alex Ferry said:


> Hi,
> My name is Alex, I live in Phila, PA and me and my fiancée need some help as to which breed would suit our lifestyle best. We are both dog lovers and are an active couple. We are both runners and run approx 15-25 miles per week and go hiking as well. We are looking for a great family dog that can keep up with us with protective instincts bc I am a firefighter and work nights on some days leaving my fiancée alone (she also runs alone sometimes too). *We have both grown up with dogs (Rotties) but this would be our first dog together. We are very much willing to put the time and energy needed to train and raise a happy dog. We have looked in to GSD, Dobes and Dutchies to name a few (were not restricted to just those breeds), but we would like to hear the opinions of owners of these breeds. Which breed(s) do you believe would make a "perfect" match. THANKS


If we talk about working dogs then, these are the breeds you should check out:-

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Doberman Pinscher
2. German Shepherd
3. Rottweiler
4. Belgium Malinois
5. Dutch Shepherd
6. Cane Corso
7. American Bulldog
8. Akita
9. Pitbull Terrier
10. Bullmastiff
11. English Mastiff
12. Dogue de Bordeaux
13. Borboel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*My Suggesation: 1. Doberman Pinscher or 2. German Shepherd or 3. Rottweiler or 4. Cane Corso*

Only working GSD posses sharp temperament. Reason: An aggressive GSD is not allowed in the show line. All other breeds are not disqualified but a GSD will be immediately if it shows such tendencies.
Airdel, Boxer, Giant Schutzner, Great Dane etc etc....are not good at protection

YOU CAN NOT CHANGE A DOGS INSTINCT. People say a dog becomes aggressive because of their owners harsh treatment, that is so wrong. If you get an aggressive puppy of a Dobe or a GSD or a ROTT. Feel lucky that you have them because most of the sh*t heads try to make that out of a dog while getting the puppy from a poor breeder. So, a 100% pure Dobe or a GSD or a ROTT will be so aggressive that they will most likely tear anything they see to pieces. Early training and socialization can play an important role in making these working dog breeds a good and obedient family pet. If you get a mellow or a shy puppy of these mentioned breeds, it means:- 

1. The puppy you've purchased from the breeder doesn't know sh*t about breeding.
2. Puppies parents sucks. Also a part of bad breeding.
3. Else if you purchase it from a reputable breeder and the parents are of outstanding quality, then the puppy is abnormal(sometimes 1 out of 7 pups are like this). One more adivce. If possible then Import it from European Kennel Club. Look for the parents that are SCHH3 and sould be a CACIB winner and holds the IPO-2 or IPO-3 title.

Rottweiler - Holzbrunelli/Haus Forstinger/Jenecks (Go with only Army Line)
Dobe - (any European reputable and serious working doberman kennel club )
GSD - (Czech/DDR bloodline)
Mals - (KNPV)

Be prepaired to pay approx. $3,500.

here is a clip of how a good quality working dog looks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZb_pKKh8G4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI-F4_V41yM


----------



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> That may be true in some cases, maybe the purebred/AKC/FCI types or just a cull.
> 
> I've owned 2 mixed Dutchies and neither has had a pet/companion personality, they both liked me..barely tolerated my wife and hated everyone else. Nice dogs though, current dog broke the cartilage in my 2 middle finger knuckles due to a leash accident (my fault) and the first gave me a limp in my right leg :lol:
> 
> Couldn't run with either, they'd just knock you over eventually.



Gerry, I think a lot depends on the dog. I agree that mine hate everyone else particularly the female. But both of them love all family members particularly my female. She adores my wife and 8 year old son. He can do anything with her and she is very gentle with him.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Heathcorte,do you really know what you're talking about, apart from Holzbrunneli Rottweilers? Although, I don't know whether these dogs run for miles. Could be, could be not, I only know their Trial results.


----------



## Heath Corte (Sep 1, 2009)

this one is also cool I think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y7elRomIGU


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Gerry, I think a lot depends on the dog. I agree that mine hate everyone else particularly the female. But both of them love all family members particularly my female. She adores my wife and 8 year old son. He can do anything with her and she is very gentle with him.


This is it Lee, the centre question. If you have a dog that functions in the family and you want to go jogging with it, there are always jogging belts, etc.!!

And, there is no limit to learning!


----------



## Heath Corte (Sep 1, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Heathcorte,do you really know what you're talking about, apart from Holzbrunneli Rottweilers? Although, I don't know whether these dogs run for miles. Could be, could be not, I only know their Trial results.


With all honesty, I have heard about those rotty related kennels as above average. No personal experience. but I am planning to import a male rott in India soon. when I'll buy it, I'll look for a good kennel. I also wanted to know a good dobe kennel, but haven't come across a reputable name so far. If you know it kindly share.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Who's just talking Rotties, here??


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

There is a young Beauceron female available for adoption in Ohio currently. I posted her information at: www.pawsnclaws.us/needhomes.htm 

Posting reads:

*Eglantine "Tina"**,  10 month old Black/Rust Female Beauceron - Located in Ohio - For Adoption. *_ Tina seems like a happy, rambunctious, full of energy, high flyin' Beauceron. So far she is OK with other dogs - I took her to the vet yesterday and she was happy to go in....greeted people, OK with other dogs, not real used to handling and a little apprehensive...but not aggressive at all. We are working with Tina to encourage good behavior. She is being introduced to agility and will get an introduction to that sport. Jim will start her in a home obedience class next week. She will probably do best in an active home ( I guess that goes for most Beaucerons, doesn't it?) and with someone who wants to do agility or a similar dog sport. Also a home that has either had Beaucerons before or other large, confident breeds would be best. She is not for the faint of heart. But she does smile a lot. She is returning to the vet on the 30th for 2 booster shots, then should be good until next spring.__Photos Taken 11/21/09._*Contact: Barbara Winslow [email protected]*


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Apprehensive but not aggressive? What are her hip scores?

Sorry Debbie, I wish all dogs a good new home, that's clear, but with the above statementa and no hip scores??


----------



## Heath Corte (Sep 1, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Who's just talking Rotties, here??


you are


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Apprehensive but not aggressive? What are her hip scores?
> 
> Sorry Debbie, I wish all dogs a good new home, that's clear, but with the above statementa and no hip scores??


I'm in Southern California and not the breeder and not the foster home and not a club member. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post that this is a dog available in Ohio. Sorry for the confusion.

Hip scores? It's a 10 month old rescue pup that is available through Breed Rescue in Ohio. The description is from the foster mom upon her arrival. Since Ohio is next to PA, I am forwarding the information as maybe it's a drive worth taking to meet the pup.


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Apprehensive but not aggressive? What are her hip scores?
> 
> Sorry Debbie, I wish all dogs a good new home, that's clear, but with the above statementa and no hip scores??


BTW, what country in Europe do you live that does hip scores on dogs under 12 months? 

Just curious as in France it's not possible to get a Dys rating on a puppy. I don't think it's possible in Belgium, Germany, Holland either..Anyone know? 

I've seen dogs here get prelims as puppies that don't show hd and then at 2 years old or older (must be 2yrs old for OFA) not certify.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Anyone can do hip scores under 10 months - just visit a vet - doesn't say much BUT, as the OP stated he wants to go jogging with his dog, I would suggest searching out lines with little or no HD.


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Anyone can do hip scores under 10 months - just visit a vet - doesn't say much BUT, as the OP stated he wants to go jogging with his dog, I would suggest searching out lines with little or no HD.


EXACTLY, it doesn't tell you much to X-ray a puppy so why post that it should be done??? 

For the vet it's "chachaching-chaching". ](*,)


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

As far as I know HD or non-HD can be considered as completed at 15 months so can't see any point in pre- x-raying but for someone looking for a dog to go running with them, would look at lines.


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Anyone can do hip scores under 10 months - just visit a vet - doesn't say much BUT, as the OP stated he wants to go jogging with his dog, I would suggest searching out lines with little or no HD.


As I understood it, hip scoring a dog at this age was a trick of the breeding peeps particularly showline as it isn't a score that improves with age :-s

The beauceron pup sounds nice.... hope she gets a good home, and like a lot of dogs these days, good hip score or not doesn't guarantee a healthy sound dog.

As a suggestion for breed, if you like to run a lot and regularly I wouldn't go for something on the large and heavy side, particularly more so if you end up going for a pup, I'd also probably go for something a bit more robust than the gsd, that's just my opinion.


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

The perfect breed probably depends more on your plans for it and what you like.



Tanith Wheeler said:


> Most breeds of dogs will be somewhat protective of their owners and you can teach most dogs an alert bark - the deterrant factor of a large dog should be enough.


That's a good point, and something I've thought about for myself. The difference between a dog that's protective, which could be most any dog, and a dog that will actually be protection trained or for taking to the local SchH club, versus one that simply looks/sounds intimidating enough to actually do the work.



Gerry Grimwood said:


> That breeder is a lying sack o shit.


Wouldn't that depend on the dog? I've heard nearly every breed, depending on the breeder, line, or specific dog, as being perfect for experienced handlers only with breed familiarity and being perfect for a family setting, all depending on variables of the dog and the people/plans for it. Of course, Gerry could be absolutely right, I don't think that's necessarily the case depending. At the very least, I'm aware of at least a couple reputable breeders of Mals & Dutchies that have put their dogs into active family situations and had them turn out wonderfully.

If the original poster's not planning on working them, a rescue Malinois or Dutchie might be a good place to get a healthy dog that was a washout from a Police program or something but would still make a protective active family pet, or even a club level dog (or who knows). A rescue APBT or American Bulldog can be a great dog if you get the right one, a lot LOVE everybody but people are scared of the most social Bulldog-type that would blow off your Malinois even if the Malinois was more likely to actually do something about it. They can be animal aggressive, so it depends what you are and aren't willing to deal with. An Airedale or a Dobe or a German Shepherd or a Black Russian or dozens of other breeds would probably work as well, depending. Then, most any breed probably has a breeder who's producing what you would like to live and work with if you go to the right people and let them know upfront what your requirements are. At least, that's become my conclusion from looking, checking out dogs, and inquiring about different breeds, breeders, etc., etc.

If you are interested in rescuing, below are some links I think might be helpful.

North American Dutch Shepherd Rescue: I've talked to Christie Meyer a couple of times and found her to be a very nice person to talk to.
http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org/

ABMC Belgian Malinois Rescue:
http://www.malinoisrescue.org/

Pit Bull Rescue Center: I've chatted with some of the PBRC people, did a research paper in grad school on Pit Bull Terrier owners for a research method assignment. Anyway, they were very cool to talk to, and really, does _any_ dog need people to do things that portray them in a positive light as much as the Pit Bull Terrier (or American Bulldog or Presa or anything that looks like a Pit Bull)? Good ones are great to have around.
http://www.pbrc.net/
PBRC Pennsylvania Organizations:
http://pbrc.net/webapp/cgi-bin/orgs_by_state.cgi/b645aed0df4f6b61b32fe3ab7388482a#P

Then, obviously Petfinder. I would prefer a rescue dog, or one that a trainer you trust has evaluated just to make sure their temperament is sound, and have an idea about what quirks they might have from bad training, abusive homes, genetics/nerves, or if they've come out relatively unscathed and are going to be a near perfect fit right out of the box. You might find the perfect dog on Petfinder, or one that has issues. Who knows.

Best of luck though regardless!

-Cheers


----------



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

The beauceron pup sounds nice.... hope she gets a good home, and like a lot of dogs these days, good hip score or not doesn't guarantee a healthy sound dog.

As a suggestion for breed, if you like to run a lot and regularly I wouldn't go for something on the large and heavy side, particularly more so if you end up going for a pup, I'd also probably go for something a bit more robust than the gsd, that's just my opinion.[/quote]


I hope she gets a good home too. I'm not sure her pedigree is known. I would say at a year or so if someone was worried they could have a vet shoot a film of the hips. 

However, so far she's been checked out as healthy and can sure outrun their GSD adult male as seen in the photo. (note: not saying that because she can outrun another dog means she has good hips. I'm saying she's too young to check the hips). 

The foster home probably has a much better feel for her now after a few weeks. The wife trains a Beauceron (from me) in Agility and the husband trains the male GSD in Schutzhund. They are definitely dog people that can assess her qualities.

When considering a dog of this age (older pup or adult) I'd just evaluate the dog on it's own merit and decide if it's a fit. As the character and athleticism is "what you see is what you get" so to speak given her age. She's not a little pup and she's not a dog for breeding.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Okay, I tend to be biased towards the GSD for the good jack of all trades house companion dog. I don't generally see the GSD as a jogging dog but have sure had them put in 10-12 hour days helping me work livestock in various capacities. But in thinking about the jogging aspect, I did come up with what I think as the perfect jogging dog---the Pointers. There is a lady here locally that I've watched for years jogging with her dogs around the Central West End. I've spoken with her a couple of times over the years and I know that she does over several miles from the CWE through Forest Park. Her two pointers have impressed me with their smooth gait mechanics as they jog with her. They have the perfect body type for it and just seem to move effortlessly along as she jogs through the streets. 

Usually when I see dogs jogging, I feel for the dog. Most of the time they are overweight and the human doesn't seem to be aware of the dog's heat stress. But these two dogs just glided along, never looking stressed or otherwise tired--but more like perfect athletes. Maybe some of the hunting folks know more about them.

Terrasita


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

THe OP is from PA he says. Won't a dog with a longer coat fair better in his bitterly cold weather? A doberman can really run a long way but their coat is so short.There is no perfect breed of dog thats for sure. Some come closer to meeting our needs then others though.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

maggie fraser said:


> As I understood it, hip scoring a dog at this age was a trick of the breeding peeps particularly showline as it isn't a score that improves with age :-s
> 
> The beauceron pup sounds nice.... hope she gets a good home, and like a lot of dogs these days, good hip score or not doesn't guarantee a healthy sound dog.


Early hip x-raying at 7 months or so is not just carried out by the showline GSD breeders by any means. As for having them x-rayed as soon as officially recognised is, as you say, to get the best possible results.

Just so I'm not misunderstood: I wouldn't do either. I waited until mine were over 15 months (when HD case is finished (so I heard). What comes after this is the setting in of arthrose. I've taken this from a Professor at Zürich Uni.

I'd recommend as before a pup from a breeder that takes HD seriously or, a young dog of 2 yrs. and over that can be X-Rayed or has results to show. I know HD isn't the only curse but, it would be an important factor for me if I wanted to jog regularly with it.


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> That breeder is a lying sack o shit.


I am one of the breeders that Alex contacted. I am NOT the breeder that said a Dutch Shepherd would be perfect for them, but I did say that as long as the dog is worked in some capacity with regularity it would do what they needed it to do. Gerry, why do you not think that a Dutchie can be used as an active pet? You mentioned that maybe an FCI dog would be better???? In my opinion this is way off. The FCI dogs that I have seen are pretty high prey dogs that are a bit nervous and shy, not sure why this would be a better pet than a very confident KNPV dog that has a more calm resting character. Many people are under some false dilusion that just because a dog has drive, power and aggression in the work, that it will be impossible to live with. Of course there are some dogs that are harder to live than others, but if raised from a puppy and taught the rules early on, they will do fine as active pets, although they may be overqualified, they will still do the job. They key is they must be mentally and physically stimulated to make sure they dont become bored and destructive. I also jog alot ,myself, and I take a different dog with me each time, I have no trouble running with any of them. Most of them can come into my house and relax with no trouble, most of them are neutral toward strangers, but will bite the shit out of someone who starts trouble. They have the endurance to run longer than most humans, they have the coat type to do fine in any PA climate, and most of them are quite easy dogs to train. While I dont think that EVERY Dutchie would work for this job, I dont see why most could not do it. Most of mine do it for me, and nearly every home that I visit in Holland has one lying on their couch, with a PH 1 cert hanging on the wall above him.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I enjoyed your post, Mike. Interesting to hear from a breeder that working dogs can also make "pets". But in this case the would-be owners make a good impression. The dog will be physically trained. I'm pretty sure they would be willing to put in a few mental exercises, maybe tracking. A lot of people laugh at it but it is very tiring for the dog, especially on long tracks.

My working dogs are living a 50% pet life at the moment due to work but, they're not freaking out. The younger one is a frickin' nutcase but with short intervals of "work", even he can be managed.

One of our club colleagues called on us one day and said "what, you have your dogs in the house?" "Mine is an IPO dog, I have to keep him outside". Am I to understand this is a total super IPO dog, no, I just think his owner is doolally....


----------



## Alex Ferry (Nov 27, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I'm going on the fact that you are not a moron and are willing to put a lot of work into such a pup because I have not read anything to the contrary.


 LOL...That is correct Gillian.

First off, thanks to everyone who responded. It is helping us a lot in our decision. I have to admit though we are biased towards a Dutch Shepherds and Rhodesian Ridgebacks and we understand that these dogs require A LOT of work, but thats something we are absolutely willing to do. We are also well aware that no dog should be running long distances until around 2 years of age and that is something you have to ease them into. We have looked into Dobes but were concerned about how they would fair in the winter time b/c they are sensitive to cold weather. Also, it seems like there are a lot of health issues you have to watch out for when it comes to them. I know someone mentioned a Rottie would be a good choice for us, but from my experience with them is that they are not distance runners. I'm not tryin to bash the Rotties...I grew up with 2 and they both were great dogs! But as far as running mile after mile...i think they would try with all their heart until they collapsed. Rotties are more built for power and strength in my opinion. This may sound ignorant, but I havent, nor my fiancee, heard of the Duck Toller. After finding some info on them they do seem like they would fit well into our lifestyle. I was concerned about how they handled summertime weather with that double coat, but read somewhere that they do fair well in hot temps. Anybody have first hand experience with them in hot temps? There dont seem to be that many breeders of them in the US either...maybe I just didnt look hard enough.


----------



## Ashley Allstun (Aug 8, 2009)

Just wanted to throw a few thoughts in...

As far as Dobes go, they're generally great companions (velcro-dogs), but you really have to watch where you get your dog from. There are a lot of badly bred Dobes out there (temperament-wise). They also have tons of health problems, so really screen the breeders you look at. Are you going to be keeping the dog inside or outside?? If inside, I wouldn't worry much about the weather. I'm not trying to steer you away from the breed (I love them), but you really have to do your homework with them. 

I was also wondering why you wouldn't consider a shelter dog. I realize that you don't know the history, but you could easily get a dog that would fit your needs that you would be able to start running with now, instead of getting a puppy that won't be able to run with you for 2 years. It doesn't have to be a mixed breed, either, if you're looking specifically for a purebred dog. There are many breed rescues out there that you could check into. I'm sure they wouldn't mind you checking hips on the dog before you decided, either. 

I know this isn't a breed you expressed interest in, but he seems like he could fit what you're looking for. 
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=15211071

There are also a ton of pits and pit mixes listed. Would you ever consider a pittie?


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> I am one of the breeders that Alex contacted. I am NOT the breeder that said a Dutch Shepherd would be perfect for them, but I did say that as long as the dog is worked in some capacity with regularity it would do what they needed it to do. Gerry, why do you not think that a Dutchie can be used as an active pet? You mentioned that maybe an FCI dog would be better???? In my opinion this is way off. The FCI dogs that I have seen are pretty high prey dogs that are a bit nervous and shy, not sure why this would be a better pet than a very confident KNPV dog that has a more calm resting character. Many people are under some false dilusion that just because a dog has drive, power and aggression in the work, that it will be impossible to live with. Of course there are some dogs that are harder to live than others, but if raised from a puppy and taught the rules early on, they will do fine as active pets, although they may be overqualified, they will still do the job. They key is they must be mentally and physically stimulated to make sure they dont become bored and destructive. I also jog alot ,myself, and I take a different dog with me each time, I have no trouble running with any of them. Most of them can come into my house and relax with no trouble, most of them are neutral toward strangers, but will bite the shit out of someone who starts trouble. They have the endurance to run longer than most humans, they have the coat type to do fine in any PA climate, and most of them are quite easy dogs to train. While I dont think that EVERY Dutchie would work for this job, I dont see why most could not do it. Most of mine do it for me, and nearly every home that I visit in Holland has one lying on their couch, with a PH 1 cert hanging on the wall above him.


Well said Mike! How a dog responds in the home is more about leadership then just training and leadership isn't something every dog owner, or even every trainer has. ;-)


----------



## Carole Goetzelmann (Jun 7, 2007)

I prefer pointy earred herding dogs, but I also like to recommend Airedales to people looking for a multi-purpose pet. Airedales can be herders, protectors, sporting (hunting), and companion dogs. There's no real shedding, but you do have to send them to the groomers every 6-8 weeks for trimming, or you need to learn to do it yourself. Make sure you find a good breeder who checks hips.

I have a friend that has had airedales for over 30 years and I love to go visit. They are friendly sweet dogs, but if something is amiss in the house, you'll know it. My friend has told me wonderful stories about these dogs protective instinct. They don't do any training or showing and their dogs turn out just fine. 

But, my friend did have to do a little training with her dog Luke. She never leash trained him and would always carry the pup from her car to the vet's office. One day she realized that she couldn't be carrying a 60 pound dog into the vet, and it looked kind of silly, so she took him to a 8 week obedience class. That's all the training she ever did with the dog and it never forgot a thing. 

Anyway, I'm a pet owner, who shows in obedience and agility and training in tracking. I'll be training my Laekenois next spring for the Begleithund. My first dog was a working dog, which is how I ended up here. And I'm really considering a Dutch Shepherd puppy for next year (or another Laekenois). I'd recommend a Laekenois, but you'll never get one from a breeder.

Anyway, that's my pitch for an Airedale.


----------



## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

David Ruby said:


> The perfect breed probably depends more on your plans for it and what you like.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Alex,

I agree with David. Sounds like you need a rescue. Why pay 500-1000 for a pet. You can find a good rescued animal and if the bond is there and with a little well actually alot of work but not more than anything else you can get a great dog for 100-200 bucks that would/could work out great for you. I PM'd you the link to NADSR b4 I read the entire thread...oops...and I said NADSR but the correct link is http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org/. NADSR is what I filed it as in my favorites. Anyways we found our DS on that site. Christie Meyer is good people. She will take into consideration what your personality type is and see if something fits. Also on there is 3 categories for rescues the NADSR foster dogs they evaluate, Rescues from other affiliates, and Shelter dogs. Ours DS was found at local shelter here and posted up on the site. I would have completely passed her by but my wife of all people said we should go see her. Then we came home with her and for what she is she is great. If she wasn't spayed I would have done it b/c I wouldn't put her in a breed program. You can see her on that site her name is Shelby. 

I am not a runner I always was a cyclist myself but the dog and I do longboarding together. Thats how I run her.


----------



## Mark Baldassarre (Apr 28, 2009)

Alex, I'm in PA also. There's a litter of working Dobe prospects in Tenn. on the ground as we speak which may suit your purpose. I sent you a PM regarding them.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Here's an idea...there are LOTS of dogs in our local shelter that would just about kill to be somebody's jogging buddy. Why don't you inquire about fostering for a local shelter or rescue and that way, if you find a dog you bond with, you get first dibs. If not, just try the next. I'll also throw out the suggestion of a border collie out there. They adore jogging, but give them mental exercise too. If not, even just a black dog of about any breed that barks is intimidating to many people. No huge need to get a manstopper unless you want to work in sport. *shrug*


----------



## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

when i got my rescue border collie mix i was looking for a similar dog. i wanted and an active, smart, trainable dog on the larger side who was at the least a detterent to criminals because of his size. 

I ended up with a super jogging/mountain biking companion who now trains in tracking, agility and stupid tricks with me. He is super smart, high energy, and very fun. It turned out he was more than a deterrent because of size...he is quite territorial at home and watchful and aloof with strangers off his home turf. If i let you in my house he will lick you to death, and do stupid tricks i taught him in an attempt to extract rewards from visitors. However if someone just ran up inside my house without me letting them in he'd try and take thier face off, this hasnt been proven, only almost due to someone elses stupidity.one day a friend of mine called to say he was in the neighborhood. i said "stop bye lets drink a beer" he just kind of walked in the front door, thinking it was ok as he told me he had just pulled into my driveway. Dog stopped him in the front hall, he told me he was pretty sure that if he kept moving forward before i came upstairs and told midnight it was OK he would have needed stitches. 

he was already fully grown when i got him at 18 months. the foster home had housetrained him and had him started on basic OB. We got to skip the pain in the ass puppy phase. He came with some issues from his previous life before the rescue foster, but after some training and working on them he is now a super awesome companion/agility dog. We ran a five mile out and back the day after i brought him home. 

All of this came to me for the low rehoming fee of $250 (incldued UTD shots and vetting, neutered, and with collar, tags, leashes and two toys) and I got the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing i helped save a dogs life.

if you're just looking for an active pet consider a rescue. its easy to find healthy, adult, already trained (basic stuff) dogs who would be a great match for you and your wife.


----------



## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

Cooper needs a home he has been at Christie's place for awhile now http://www.dutchshepherdrescue.org/NADSRdogs.html look at bottom of page


----------



## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

In my opinion, if you want a visual deterrent then a German Shepard, Dobermann or Rottweiler is your best choice. If you can find a pitbull with a good dispostion that might fit the bill. At any time around here there will be a huge number of them in rescue because there are so many knuckleheads that own them and breed them. A Malinois or Dutchie is less known as a breed, so the visual deterrent factor will be less. Many of the other breeds listed would not be much of a visual deterrant at all. 

In terms of dogs that will ACTUALLY protect you that is another story and a few months of heavy research on your part will be required . 

I have Dobermann's but will be the first to say that there really are very few breeders out there that produce good dogs. I mean VERY few. Forget the breeders of North American showlines, as 95% of the dogs produced by them do not have much in the way of protective instincts. It has been bred out. There are some nervy ones out there that will out of fear act pretty sharp toward anything that is not familiar to them, and this might be a deterrant for most predators but if they ACTUALLY had to protect YOU or your fiance they would shit before they would do this. Some of the Euro show breeders will produce dogs that will work, at least to some extent, and protect but it is a crapshoot. In terms of Dobermann's specifically bred to work there are VERY, VERY few in the whole world. Even in Germany there are probably less than a dozen whose primary purpose in breeding is to be good at bitework. In North America less than 5 and most of them breed very sporadically. In terms of their coats that is an overrated factor in my opinion. The fact is most Doberman owners in North America are a "different breed" altogether. They pamper their dogs to no end. I made my dog work in all kinds of conditions and it did not seem to bother her, but she is much less sensitive than most Dobermann's out there, even among working dogs. As a matter of fact the 2 times she went high in trial as a Sch3 was when the weather conditions were terrible and all the other dogs were all GSD's. The first trial was in a snow storm, and the second one it was raining heavily, less than 40 degrees out and a 30 MPH wind. 

In terms of GSD's as a visual detterant would work well, but there is a wide variance in terms of temperament produced. I would choose a West German working line dog, which is more compact and square and have had generations of dogs that required a hip dyplasia test. I think in general their temperament is more stable as well. I have seen some real shitty dogs produced by back yard breeders as well as show breeders. 

In terms of Rotties, the only ones I saw that worked well were the ones I saw in Germany. Not to say there are not good ones in the USA, but I just have not seen too many at least where I live, and am not very familiar with the breed. My brother has them but of course he would not listen to me when it came to selection, even though I did a couple of weeks of research on the internet for him (he does not own a computer). Then of course he went out and spent too much money from a BYB'er and the dog has had a lot of health issues, including hip problems. 

There are a lot of great Mali's out there but again they are less known as a breed. Though then again, a lot of people might mistake them for a GSD.


----------



## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> While I dont think that EVERY Dutchie would work for this job, I dont see why most could not do it. Most of mine do it for me, and nearly every home that I visit in Holland has one lying on their couch, with a PH 1 cert hanging on the wall above him.


i don't have the certificate hanging up, but have a PHI dutchie curled up on my couch as we speak. she's an excellent house dog, and is left out 24/7 whether i'm home or not. the only household casualties have been 1 pork tenderloin and a cinnamon roll that got left on the counter when we first got her. she's 5. the 7 month old dutchie is an obnoxious SOB in the house right now, but for all that, is my good buddy and a fine house dog in the making. he learned quickly what he could and could not chew on, housetrained quickly, learned that tables are not springboards, etc & etc. we're currently working on "no, you may not jump up & take things down off the top of the refrigerator when you want them," and & i'm sure there will be a few other lessons to follow, but that's part of any puppy. IMO, just about any dog can be a house dog, it all depends on how much you're willing to put up with/invest in them to set ground rules.


----------

