# France Selectifs Video



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

This link was on the AWMA forum - very impressive decoys...definitely lets one see how they try to steal points away from dog.

http://www.chienplus.com/video-guebel-g1-sedan.htm


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

And you wonder why I try to get people to convert.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

i think i was decoying in that video!!!!


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

alot of terv in there too


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

steve gossmeyer said:


> i think i was decoying in that video!!!!


 You wish!!!  

I only saw one Terv....? Guess I was watching the decoys more then the dogs...


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

didn't you recognize my suit i colored the black white. lol. nice decoy work though


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

So do the decoys ever get bitten in the face by dogs that retarget when the decoy bends down? I do notice he's bending over in such a way that it looks like if the dog moved the bite he'd bite to the chest, so maybe they already take this into account?


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

eh ive only seen it once. they can move quick enough not to


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I saw it once too, it was a cop and he got bitten in the face :lol: Fillet'd it right open. But assumably a FR decoy is quicker


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Even some GSDs in ring apparantly, nice vid!


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

yeah you see them everynow and then but im pretty sure those were tervs


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

My husband, who has done a teeny tiny bit of helper work in Schutzhund, had a question...he was curious if anyone ever gets accidently nailed in the hands or anything during the object guard while attempting to grab the basket. He was just wondering why they wouldn't wear gloves.

Edit: loved the Pirates of the Carribean soundtrack too. 8)


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

Hi,
Honestly it's not about that. The dog is pretty equipment trained if all the training is done correctly. The dog enjoys the challenge of the fight with the decoy - but is really just fighting over the equipment.
I don't think a ring dog is anymore apt to bit a decoy in the face than a schutzhund dog. (of course there are always those dogs in every sport - but usually don't get all the way to level 3 in ring because of control problems).
Although there are some dogs that go through the suit 
but that's something else entirely.


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

It looks identical to a black and tan GSD, so I really wonder if that´s a terv? I know there are a kennel in france that has quite a few GSDs working in mondio and FR, don´t rememeber the name thou.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Hand bites do accidentally happen sometimes in Ring. They rarely happen on purpose. If your dog likes to go after hands, face, etc and the judge sees that, they will tear the book up and your dog won't be competing anymore. Pretty quick and simple way to make sure the dogs entered are safe to work. 
Decoy's don't wear gloves because if the dog does bite the hand, they may not realize it since their is fabric over it. A dog is more apt to spit it out and retarget onto the suit if the hand is bare, than if there is fabric in their mouth. Plus the visual, unless the gloves are light colored it can make the hands blend into the suit.

There was 1 Terv in the video, and a number of GSD. GSD are actually fairly popular in France for Ring. They used to be the main dog, until 20-25 years ago. Now you still see them in Ring, but the Malinois are taking most of the podium spots.

I'll claim possible influence for the sound track LOL Erin and I used it extensively in the 2006 NARA Championship DVD we created, and I happen to know someone in France I gave that DVD to as a gift, is close friends with the person who put together the Selectif DVD.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Anyone that works dogs for any length of time figures out pretty quick that most dogs are not out there to maul you. We also figure out that if they wanted to bite you......you get bit. they are way faster than us.

Stop worrying about decoys getting bitten, and talk about what you saw. I swear, it's like you guys have never seen dogs work before. LOL : P


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

Kadi,

since you mentioned this... kind of.

I have a dvd of the Mondioring championships from belgium that was given to me at the Nationals.

It is in some weird format that I can't open it. I have taken it to places that have European dvd players and they cannot open it either.

it's in a ".gi" format -- I believe this stands for global image.

Do you -- or anyone else have a clue how to watch this?


Jeff -- those decoys are incredible athletes -- I really enjoy watching this


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

it is a terv.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I definitely agree that the decoys did a wonderful job. Seems like the second dog (Malinois) engaged before the decoy struck the handler...could be wrong because the decoys are fast and it's a hard angle to see. Does the dog lose all points for this exercise if he indeed engaged the decoy before he struck the handler? Same dog also seemed to have problems engaging when the stick was used down low by the decoy in one of the exercises.

Is there a line on the field, that the decoy attempts to cross, when he is able to distract the dog and get the basket before the dog engages? I'm wondering if that one dog, believe it was a GSD, was focusing on the handler when the decoy was able to get the basket and run a good distance before the dog engaged.


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

the dog cant bite until the basket is touched. and they loose points if the dog bites the decoy before he is touched but i dont believe it is all of them


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

the farther the decoy gets the more points that are lost there are lines around the basket i belive at 1 2 and 3 meters


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Lacey Vessell said:


> Is there a line on the field, that the decoy attempts to cross, when he is able to distract the dog and get the basket before the dog engages?


There are multiple circles on the field around the basket, although they are only really useful until the basket has been moved the first time.

This is from the rulebook:
This basket will be placed in the center of an area which is obligatorily delineated by four concentric circles that' are designed to facilitate the Judge's measurements of the dog's movements during the execution of the exercise. The radii (one-half the diameter) of these circles will be 1.5 m, 2 m, 3 m, and 5 m.

The dog can bite once the decoy is within 1 meter of the basket for no point loss. If they bite sooner, they loose points per meter early.

The NARA rulebook explains this exercise at
http://www.ringsport.org/rulebook.htm#THE GUARD OF THE OBJECT -- 30 points

A list of dogs that are competing in the selectifs, and the results of each trial are at http://www.chienplus.com/ring-2007/result_selectifs_2007.pdf

In Group 1, the one that is trialing in the video, there are
Malinois - 18
GSD - 6
Terv - 3


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## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

thanx kadi


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## melissa mims (Jul 12, 2006)

Erik Berg said:


> It looks identical to a black and tan GSD, so I really wonder if that´s a terv? I know there are a kennel in france that has quite a few GSDs working in mondio and FR, don´t rememeber the name thou.


It is val des Hurles Vent, in France. Couple of champions, I think. 

The French really have excellent stick work in my opinion, even taking into acount this is a mid-high level trial. The timing that it takes to know when the barrage will stimulate prey, and when the barrage is such an insurmountable wall the dog shuts down, is less than a second. 

Luckily, the Selectifs and the Championships will be in the Central Zone this year, so I will see how well we hold up.


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

Ok, then it was a GSD afterall I guess. Yes, that´s the french kennel I was thinking about, I know an intressting studdog, GSD, that has ringdogs on his mothersside from that kennel, great policedog from a very good litter.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Yeah, it looks like them decoys have to be in pretty good shape to do all that dancing around. Made me tired watching them!!


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