# Beef (but not chicken) causing diarrea?



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

He handles raw chicken without an issue, but beef (last night he had raw heat and part of a raw soup bone) have him still squirting water out of door numero dos. Is this odd?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> He handles raw chicken without an issue, but beef (last night he had raw heat and part of a raw soup bone) have him still squirting water out of door numero dos. Is this odd?


Have you given him marrow bones before? Generally, depending how loaded the bone is you will end up with this result. The beef heart is pretty dense but is generally tolerated well. How much did you give him?

Keep some Libby's plain canned pumpkin on hand for him if you don't already. Dogs get the shits sometimes and the pumpkin will get them squared up very nicely. Works well for constipation too and most dogs seem partial to the taste of it.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Matt was it old meat? Or was there too much fat on it? I only give mine fresh butcher cut meat and bones. Cost isn't bad and the animals handle the product well.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

..while I agree with the fat part....hearts tend to be pretty fat free.....or at least the ones I feed are. 

Some feed it as an organ meat (which is in moderation) and some, like me, feed it as a muscle meat since, IMHO, that is what the heart is anyway, a muscle. 

Marrow will give dogs issues with loose stools and vomiting as well. 

And, is this his first time having beef? I have had dogs here that just don't do well on beef as a meal, treats and small amounts are fine, but not their regular meals. Same with pork. So I mix these proteins with larger portions of chicken, venison, buffalo and any other meat I may have thawed out. (this is after the initial adding a protien a week to see what the dog won't tolerate).


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Could be too much fat too soon (fatty marrow bone - marrrow is mostly fat...) and the beef heart which is nutrient dense but has little bulk to it (no cartilge, bone etc) - this can cause squirts. Sometimes its better to feed heart in smaller quantities or mixed with something else.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> Could be too much fat too soon (fatty marrow bone - marrrow is mostly fat...) and the beef heart which is nutrient dense but has little bulk to it (no cartilge, bone etc) - this can cause squirts. Sometimes its better to feed heart in smaller quantities or mixed with something else.


 I have the marrow bones cut into 2" thick donuts and frozen. Maybe this is the reason mine haven't been sick???


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I have the marrow bones cut into 2" thick donuts and frozen. Maybe this is the reason mine haven't been sick???


Probably right.

Marrow is way up there IME for diarrhea unless it's introduced very slowly/gradually.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Im guessing thats it then


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> Im guessing thats it then


Is it better?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Connie how much difference is there in chicken fat and beef? Is excess, excess?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Healthy dogs do well with raw animal fat. I imagine you know that. For a healthy dog at the right weight who is eating sufficient protein (obviously not an all-fat diet), "excess" fresh raw animal fat really just comes into play with a sudden diet change to a lot more fat than the dog is used to, and the dog has diarrhea. 

Many cuts of beef have more fat than chicken does. Not all, of course -- some have less.* But those very lean trimmed cuts of beef are probably not in the beef we give the dogs. 

Is that what you meant? 

If I'm switching a kibble dog to raw (for one reason and another, this is something I have a good amount of experience with), I add in the fatty stuff gradually, including even the chicken skin and blobs of attached poultry fat. I also add in the organ meat slowly. 

Yes, most dogs are gonna be fine anyway, but I'd rather just avoid diarrhea, and it's pretty easy to do that gradual thing.

BTW, breeders have told me (and I have no reason to disbelieve it) that puppies who are weaned to raw and never have the kibble-to-raw switch are more impervious to these bouts of diarrhea from new fattier foods.



* If I recall correctly, beef cuts range from 5% to 30%+ fat, so there's no real meaningful overall fat %.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Is it better?



nope, I have been feeding him raw chicken since (last time did good kibble and that didnt help so I thought Id try this)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> nope, I have been feeding him raw chicken since (last time did good kibble and that didnt help so I thought Id try this)


Wait a sec.

He still has water poop? Is this a puppy?


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Im also assuming all the little pellets of rabbit poop he finds outside and eats arent contributing to this since he has eaten them regularly (he also loved deer poop when taken to a golf course with a lot present)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Even if not a puppy, water poop would make me fast the dog (but give plenty of water) and then give very small meals of soothing, binding foods.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

a short list of such foods please?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> a short list of such foods please?


Is this a puppy? If so, and you are still seeing water poop, please PM me or call the vet or both. 

If the adult dog is well hydrated, then I would fast the dog (to give his gut a break) but give plenty of water for a day. Then I would give very small meals of mushy overcooked soupy porridgy white rice with a little skinless white chicken cooked in it, and some plain canned pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling). I wouldn't change this until I saw good poops for a couple of days. Then I'd start some plain unsweetened live-culture yogurt (probiotics) too. I'd want a few days of logs before returning (gradually) to the regular diet.

I'd want his gut to calm down. It's inflamed now. 

Small meals are as important as the food itself, IME.

Please feel free to PM me.

JMO. I'm not a health professional -- just an old person with experience. :lol:


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

(not a pup) and if it isnt cleared up, I will start it tomor


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