# Weak pasterns.



## Matt Vandart

I'm not to hot on dog structure to be honest as I have never had a dog with bad structure.
I am a bit concerned about my Mal puppies pasterns as they are not like any of my other dogs. Do they look weak to you?


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If yes, could it be something I have done, as in her activity/diet etc or is this a purely genetic thing?
Thanks in advance


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## Faisal Khan

Pups change on a weekly basis, I'd not worry myself unless there was a symptom.


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## Lynn Cheffins

She looks long in the pastern but they don't look weak or terriblydown in the pastern to me. Pups can take a while to grow into the various "bits" and can look pretty uneven at times.


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## Alice Bezemer

Matt Vandart said:


> I'm not to hot on dog structure to be honest as I have never had a dog with bad structure.
> I am a bit concerned about my Mal puppies pasterns as they are not like any of my other dogs. Do they look weak to you?
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> If yes, could it be something I have done, as in her activity/diet etc or is this a purely genetic thing?
> Thanks in advance


Hows about you let the thing grow up to become a fully grown dog before you start judging structure?

Pups go all sides when growing...and then some...they change from one moment to the next, you can not say anything about how she will develop in the next few months. I am very tempted to shake my head at your question to be honest. You ask a question and allmost immediately follow it up with your own conclusion and a reason! 

Let the thing become a dog first!


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## Matt Vandart

Thanks for your answers people, I'm a bit happier now.

In response to this:



Alice Bezemer said:


> Hows about you let the thing grow up to become a fully grown dog before you start judging structure?
> 
> Pups go all sides when growing...and then some...they change from one moment to the next, you can not say anything about how she will develop in the next few months. I am very tempted to shake my head at your question to be honest. You ask a question and allmost immediately follow it up with your own conclusion and a reason!
> 
> Let the thing become a dog first!


I am not judgeing structure I just don't want to damage her through ignorance. 
The second part of my post was not a conclusion, it was asked because someone else suggested I may have done something wrong so I thought I would ask on here, a place full of working dog people, is that ok with you?
My concerns stem from the fact this dog is way more fragile than the breeds I am used to, dobermans and bull breeds. I haven't had a Mal before and I don't want to break her. 8-[


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## Thomas Barriano

Matt,

You've obviously ruined her. Ship her to Colorado and I'll pay for any corrective surgery she needs in the future


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Matt,

My recollection is that the Mal pasterns are fairly straight. But refer to your standard if Kadi doesn't come on with the official. If she were a GSD, I'd say fine. Her feet look nice and tight. That's sorta a weird stance you caught her in. What's the protein percentage of her food?

T


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## Annamarie Somich

Looks normal to me. Her feet look good too. Right now she has a long body and big head.

The legs have a lot of growing left to do. They will trade back and forth with her body length. Then her chest will drop after a year and then it will widen. Her legs will have one last growing spurt around 18 months. The last to grow will be the broadness of her head. Then her ears will finally look normal! You will have to wait to find out if she will be long in body or square. I would refer to the parent or grandparent that she favors.

I have a new female pup from lines that I'm not use to. She came to me at 10 weeks with easty-westy front and hockey rear. She is an extremely slow grower. At 5 months now her legs are nice and straight. She is in that monster puppy head phase too with a huge long muzzle.


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## susan tuck

I can't really tell from the picture, but if you are concerned, talk to Debbie Skinner. She got back a Mal that was REALLY malnurished and consequently had horribly splayed feet and was waaaaaaaay down on his pasterns, and she was able to bring him back to normal. Check out this thread and the pictures:

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/malnurished-mal-need-rehab-suggestions-11134/


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## rick smith

Matt
re: "this dog is way more fragile than the breeds I am used to"
what do you mean by that ? 
- broken bones, pulled muscles, skin problems, flea/tick reactions, low pain thresholds or strictly mental stuff ? i'm no puppy raiser but most people agree there are fear periods in pup development. assume you are aware of that even tho you don't seem to be a "behaviorist" kinda guy


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## Matt Vandart

Thanks for your answers!



Thomas Barriano said:


> Matt,
> 
> You've obviously ruined her. Ship her to Colorado and I'll pay for any corrective surgery she needs in the future


hahahahahha! no chance! 

T- she is on a kibble diet, it claims to be 24% crude protein.

Susan- i'll check that thread out right now!

Rick- by fragile I mean physically, dobermans and bullies are very robust puppies, she just looks like I could break her which was why I have been slow to correct her also, lol. So far she is proving me wrong as she has taken a few gnarly dives whilst playing etc.

The grand parent she favors I would say is this dog:

http://wdcontent12.working-dog.eu/D...1WiKRrGWahOhLRCK7zkYPLj_p3Xnf5jGPfVuUPf4,.jpg

and her mothers line in general, Perle de tourbiere.

Her fathers line are bigger build, light colored, black muzzle type Mals.


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## Joby Becker

Matt is the dog crated a lot?


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## Matt Vandart

No she isn't she has a massive 16' x 16' pen to run round in when I am not home and she is free like the rest of the dogs when I am, they each get training on rota during the day, so she is in her pen for 20 mins at a time, times three dogs so about 1 hour of the day as a rough guess. It is a cement floored pen and there is a step about 2ft high where her kennel is to the main floor.

I am home all day except when I am training dogs.


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## Joby Becker

Matt Vandart said:


> No she isn't she has a massive 16' x 16' pen to run round in when I am not home and she is free like the rest of the dogs when I am, they each get training on rota during the day, so she is in her pen for 20 mins at a time, times three dogs so about 1 hour of the day as a rough guess. It is a cement floored pen and there is a step about 2ft high where her kennel is to the main floor.
> 
> I am home all day except when I am training dogs.


gotcha...I have seen some dogs that have issues with pasterns from being crated too much..thats all I got...


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## Matt Vandart

I really should crate my dogs more tbh. They sometimes can't be arsed to work because they have so much freedom to do what they want I spose.


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## Annamarie Somich

I have similar lines - your pup looks right on schedule. Her pasterns look normal for these lines.

She is getting a lot of varied activity and surfaces which is really good.

Yes, the mals compared to the bully breeds, don't have as much muscle and padding to handle scrapes and falls as easily. They still have a pretty high pain tolerance. The mals tend to do crazy things without thinking ahead and can easily hurt themselves - that is what you have to look out for. For example, carrying food or a toy out the back door down the step, my pups will be in drive and will start jumping up to get it without realizing that there is a concrete step down. I am careful to prevent this kind of behavior. Also, they will jump off of high things without realizing the consequences and hurt themselves - so you have to be on the lookout to prevent these kinds of situations. I learned the hard way with my first pup. I acted like a stupid pet person and had Gunner in my high four poster bed the first week I got him and he decided to jump off. I took him to the chiropractor and his sternum and one shoulder were out of adjustment. Chiropractor said she had never seen anything like it. I also do not allow my dogs to rough house in the house nor do I throw things - they tend to slide on the tile and slam into the walls.

My new female pup Bella, from heavy Joefarm lines, likes to play cat and jump from furniture to furniture in the den and makes no effort to judge whether or not she can handle the distance. And boy is she the most jumping puppy I have had so far. So I have moved the recliner and other chair away from the doggy daybed to prevent her from jumping. I also have a step in front of the doggy daybed to prevent her from doing a kamikaze. So the typical mal is so in drive they can be either fearless or stupid. This is what makes the breed a lot of fun, especially as puppies.


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