# legit or scam?



## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1eou7Kkh0k

dog seems to have good fight on the bite and shows good aggression to someone without any equipment. seemed like dog had ecollar on the entire time though. in the end seems like a trained dog i would gladly pay good money for. 

what you guys think?


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

John Ly said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1eou7Kkh0k
> 
> dog seems to have good fight on the bite and shows good aggression to someone without any equipment. seemed like dog had ecollar on the entire time though. in the end seems like a trained dog i would gladly pay good money for.
> 
> what you guys think?


This is one question I have with that whole deal... What if one spouse keeps up with training and maintaining the level of obedience with the dog - would one have the same issue I'm running into where the dog listens to, and respects me more then my spouse?


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I don't think you can buy mastery like that. It requires dedication to learn how to keep protection dogs...same with firearms or knife handling or martial arts etc.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I think it was a well done bit of PR and advertising by those who trained the dog but that's still no absolute that the dog will do the job when the $#!+ really hits the fan. 

Good training or a good dog? Hard to say!

For those that truely need a dog like this I would suggest becoming proficient with fire arms. The dog is only there to give you time to call on 1911 or 870.


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## Mark Sheplak (Oct 28, 2011)

Great PR, but reality is probably different. In general, things like this just mislead people. 

Maybe that is just an awesome dog, but it seems like a bad accident waiting to happen. 

What happens if the three year old walks up behind the dog while he is guarding the stairs? 

I don't think that people who have zero protection dog handling experience, let alone zero dog experience, should be walking a dog off leash in public (actually, I don't think that anyone should). 

Most working dogs that I know need a lot of exercise, training, etc. to stay "sane", very few are happy being couch potatoes. That little back yard likely isn't going to cut it. If the dog isn't worked for weeks on end, does the behavior change or does it load and explode?

I assume that there has to be an extensive training maintenance program.

I wonder what Mark Smith thinks 5 years later. 

I would be curious to see the dog's performance in the Logan Haus evaluation test. 

Lots more questions than answers, but then again, we aren't the target audience for CPI. They sell dogs to wealthy, inexperienced people who vastly overpay. This is perhaps the most egregious case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/us/12dogs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I think it was a well done bit of PR and advertising by those who trained the dog but that's still no absolute that the dog will do the job when the $#!+ really hits the fan.
> 
> Good training or a good dog? Hard to say!
> 
> For those that truely need a dog like this I would suggest becoming proficient with fire arms. The dog is only there to give you time to call on 1911 or 870.


I agree, 100%.


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## Mark Sheplak (Oct 28, 2011)

http://www.protectiondogs.com/dogs/baddy/

The ring-runner can be yours for a bargain price of 18.5k$ with "sport training" or 30k$ with "executive protection training".


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

If you go to their website you will find their trained dogs for sale:

http://www.protectiondogs.com/dogs-by-cpi/fully-trained-adult_protection_dogs/

And you will find this comparison chart of their various training levels:

http://www.protectiondogs.com/cpi-training/training-program-comparison/


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

of course the service is clearly geared towards people with lots of money who probably dont even know what marker training is. the company seems like they actually train the dogs the right way though. not just showing a dog biting a sleeve and barking and calling it a day. they do box work, suit work, muzzle work,etc. 

http://vimeo.com/52513101


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

John Ly said:


> of course the service is clearly geared towards people with lots of money who probably dont even know what marker training is. the company seems like they actually train the dogs the right way though. not just showing a dog biting a sleeve and barking and calling it a day. they do box work, suit work, muzzle work,etc.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/52513101


Wow! That's impressive... Honestly, the safety of my family is priceless - I would gladly pay $35,000+ as the price layout states IF this is truly the quality of their work.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Would like to see the dog work outside of his comfort zone ie: home and yard


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

There are people on this forum who have had protection dogs bite people they weren't suppose to bite...it can be a serious liability. Keeping the right balance of social but not too social...not easy.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Would like to see the dog work outside of his comfort zone ie: home and yard




At the very least! 

Add a good dog man you know to test them with a hidden sleeve and muzzle work also and not just what's shown in the video or at their kennel. 

As to what these dogs are worth..........WAY to rich for my blood but if the buyer shows up in a Bentley the price will double. :grin::wink:


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Nice advertisement for a protection dog as status symbol is what I see. 

I would have liked to see more of the dog and less of the guy talking about the dog. A bite with a lot of shaking, some ecollar heeling in public - looks ok. I did like the control I saw with the wife, but how many takes were required to get that footage? 

I think the owners are an accident waiting to happen unless that dog is a saint - parking the dog in a restaurant where both their own child and strangers' children are tripping over him is just irresponsible and unfair to the dog.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

thanks for sharing the video...

nothing real spectacular in my book, but a nice well trained dog.

have no clue whether I would want that dog to watch my back for me, or my family, cause I didnt see anything either way that would make me says yes or no in the video.

That I would find out in a strange dark basement somewhere...that 1-2 minutes would show me more of what I would want to see, than the whole PR video...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what one has to consider in this whole thing is how much people feel that their time is worth, the time spent training, the cost to buy or breed, time and cost to raise and maintain the dogs as well

plus the fact that they are trying to make money most likely


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