# Good videos of BH and IPO1 new rules?



## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm working towards my BH and IPO1 this fall. I've never titled a dog before. I've been to one trial but there were only a few dogs and only 1 or 2 passed or got their IPO. Can someone lead me to some good videos (youtube or whatever) of a nice BH and IPO ob pattern done properly according to the new rules? I can read the rules over and over but I'm more of a visual learner. Would like to see higher scoring dogs, too, if possible.

thanks,
D


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## Richard Ramirez (Sep 6, 2011)

Here is a video of IPO1 protection. The dog missed the "5" blind and went straight to 6/find blind. I hope this helps. Richard


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## Richard Ramirez (Sep 6, 2011)

Oops. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=IPO1+obedience&page=1 This link will take you to obedience for IPO1. Search for the BH and protection there also. Good luck!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Richard

Most of those are older videos and don't show one done according to the new rules. The BH motion exercises are the biggest change. The IPO I now requires a "command" when the helper does the escape and you don't have the option of picking up the dog out of the blind. You have to do a call out.
For Protection you now report in ON lead and go out to the middle of the field, remove lead ,look to judge and then send to blind 5


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Richard
> 
> Most of those are older videos and don't show one done according to the new rules. The BH motion exercises are the biggest change. The IPO I now requires a "command" when the helper does the escape and you don't have the option of picking up the dog out of the blind. You have to do a call out.
> For Protection you now report in ON lead and go out to the middle of the field, remove lead ,look to judge and then send to blind 5


Are you sure about no longer being able to pick up your dog out of the blind in IPO1? I haven't heard anything about a change in that regard. So far there's no change in the latest FCI IPO rules either.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Are you sure about no longer being able to pick up your dog out of the blind in IPO1? I haven't heard anything about a change in that regard. So far there's no change in the latest FCI IPO rules either.


Hi Susan

Positive, you never could pick up your dog in IPO I. Only Schutzhund and VPG I.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Richard
> 
> Most of those are older videos and don't show one done according to the new rules.


Either that or the camera work is too shaky and the handler so small you can't see what they're doing.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

here's one where the judge says its the best OB he's seen all yr - 100 pts. And they don't show the dog doing it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXQds0sQf7A

here's a high scoring malinois. but I'm confused about the turns. would like to see one where the dog uses german about turns? also his turns are not 90. and the dog does a slow sit. this is Ipo3? I really like the retreives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_lw7KDVNmI


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

ok. found one. its a little older but this is the way I practice my turns! Balabanov of course. still not an IPO 1 found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gANBkfS5zN0


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hi Susan
> 
> Positive, you never could pick up your dog in IPO I. Only Schutzhund and VPG I.


Maybe that's one of the things that needs to be clarified. I went to two new rules seminars and I don't remember hearing that it's still a pick up only. In fact, I remember the SV person who did the second rules seminar I went to describing how to legally pick up your dog out of the blind as opposed to picking up open field (whether you say sit or not).

Laura


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Maybe that's one of the things that needs to be clarified. I went to two new rules seminars and I don't remember hearing that it's still a pick up only. In fact, I remember the SV person who did the second rules seminar I went to describing how to legally pick up your dog out of the blind as opposed to picking up open field (whether you say sit or not).
> 
> Laura



HI Laura

I'm only talking about a pick up out of the blind instead of a call out (not open field). IPO I was always call out only. You never had an option of picking up your dog. The English translation of the rules was very badly done and is being redone. I wouldn't trust any of the current translation.
Someone asked Randall Hoadley at our trial last month if they could pick up their dog at IPO I H&B and they were told NO


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> HI Laura
> 
> I'm only talking about a pick up out of the blind instead of a call out (not open field). IPO I was always call out only. You never had an option of picking up your dog. The English translation of the rules was very badly done and is being redone. I wouldn't trust any of the current translation.
> Someone asked Randall Hoadley at our trial last month if they could pick up their dog at IPO I H&B and they were told NO


I know. That's why I was listening for it.

I'm sure each judge is putting their spin on the rules. Heck, I've already seen it done. Here's a hint...don't always expect to keep your dog on leash when checking in for protection at any level.

Laura


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

"English translation of the rules was very badly done and is being redone."

YES someone who was a native English speaker should have done a review of it before it was issued!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> I know. That's why I was listening for it.
> 
> I'm sure each judge is putting their spin on the rules. Heck, I've already seen it done. Here's a hint...don't always expect to keep your dog on leash when checking in for protection at any level.
> 
> Laura


You're right about the checking in thing. I don't recall ever checking in for protection. It's always been a wave at the end of the field and then start a search. Actually I didn't put a leash on my dog till the trial and then it was a little weird to stop and remove it when I got to the middle of the field. The same with the hesitation/wait 3 seconds for the BH "motion" exercises. I've got a couple of dogs ready for BH's in the Fall
and I'm doing a normal motion exercises and take the points loss.


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## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

The SV has DVDs in their shop, about IPO etc....

As much as explaining the new rules, in comparison to the SchH rules it is not much help, but if you want to see the explanation of the excersizes and the whole thing arround they are ok.

I think they have them in english also...


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> HI Laura
> 
> I'm only talking about a pick up out of the blind instead of a call out (not open field). IPO I was always call out only. You never had an option of picking up your dog. The English translation of the rules was very badly done and is being redone. I wouldn't trust any of the current translation.
> Someone asked Randall Hoadley at our trial last month if they could pick up their dog at IPO I H&B and they were told NO


 
Thomas


You are incorrect.

Here is a excerpt from the FCI Judges meeting:

_On the Judge´s signal the handler calls the dog into the basic position._
_Alternative in IPO 1: The handler is permitted to pickup the free heeling dog out of the blind_​ 

The only time you CAN NOT pick up is if you tried to callout first. Once you make the decision to callout you have 3 tries and then DQ. You MAY not change to a pick up.


Hope this helps


Frank


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

HI Frank

Then they're not just all going to IPO rules. They're also changing the IPO rules. One of the big differences between IPO and Schutzhund (when there was still differences) was that you had to call out your dog out of the blind. There never was a pick up option for IPO before. Who held the judges meeting and when and where? Like I said, someone else asked the question at our club trial June 16th and was told they had to call out now.


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## Jon Howard (Jun 26, 2012)

Frank Phillips said:


> Thomas
> 
> 
> You are incorrect.
> ...


This is correct. We had a trial on the weekend where an IPO 1 team was disqualified for trying to pickup the dog from the blind. This was purposely checked and trained for a few days before by Alex Beyer(who coincidently trialed a dog in ipo 1 a few weeks before under the new rules).
The decision was disputed and the team got a retrial.
Much embarrassment on the judges behalf. Handler was not happy at all.


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> HI Frank
> 
> Then they're not just all going to IPO rules. They're also changing the IPO rules. One of the big differences between IPO and Schutzhund (when there was still differences) was that you had to call out your dog out of the blind. There never was a pick up option for IPO before. Who held the judges meeting and when and where? Like I said, someone else asked the question at our club trial June 16th and was told they had to call out now.


The Judges meeting I attended was the International FCI Judges meeting held in Dec in Breda Holland. The excerpt I posted was from Gunther Deigel's power point presentation on the protection phase. (I got copies of most of the PPT files on a thumb drive) Attending and presenting weres 5 of the 7 authors of the rules. So my information is correct.

You are correct about the old IPO and that there are changes also. If there were not you would also not be allowed to hold the collar on the lang bite like before (but you can now)...Everyone is going to IPO rules and they have been modified as of Jan1, 2012. Like adding the "power and fighting" stuff into the protection. Before in IPO, barking for a toy was fine 

I spoke to Randall on the phone and he assured me he said no such thing. He asked the people at your trial which they would do and they all chose to call out, and like I said above, once you make the first command to callout you CAN NOT change to a pickup. Same if you try to pickup and he doesn't come with you, you CAN NOT change to a callout. Once you make a command to call out you must call out...

Hope this clears things up for you

Frank


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification, Frank!! :grin:


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

Here's most of a BH done in March 2012 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb_kSlNkJzs


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## Rob Kringel (Aug 2, 2011)

Donna DeYoung said:


> here's one where the judge says its the best OB he's seen all yr - 100 pts. And they don't show the dog doing it!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXQds0sQf7A
> 
> ...


So which about turn is correct? Are either ok? Is there a point deduction for one verses the other? I originally trained for the around the back style (I guess that is the german style) then saw the pivot and liked it much better so retrained for it. Teaching the pivot to my dog also helped with his crowding in the left turns.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Rob Kringel said:


> So which about turn is correct? Are either ok? Is there a point deduction for one verses the other? I originally trained for the around the back style (I guess that is the german style) then saw the pivot and liked it much better so retrained for it. Teaching the pivot to my dog also helped with his crowding in the left turns.


Both the German about and the FCI about are correct, neither is worth more or less points than the other. Many people like the way the FCI about looks but don't understand the proper execution which can result in points loss, for example instead of a pivot people do a "u" turn. Also a lot of long bodied dogs have a tendency to cut the corner with their hind ends instead of coming all the way around before coming out of the turn, which looks really awkward and is just plain wrong.


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Both the German about and the FCI about are correct, neither is worth more or less points than the other. Many people like the way the FCI about looks but don't understand the proper execution which can result in points loss, for example instead of a pivot people do a "u" turn. Also a lot of long bodied dogs have a tendency to cut the corner with their hind ends instead of coming all the way around before coming out of the turn, which looks really awkward and is just plain wrong.


 
This is absolutely correct... I bet only 1 out of every 20 I see "attempt" this about turn do it properly....However when done correctly, very impressive....


For the 2 different turns, you can do either..... but MUST stay consistant to which ever you choose.

Frank


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Louise Jollyman said:


> Here's most of a BH done in March 2012 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb_kSlNkJzs



Nice dog and nice attitude. Probably lost some points on the U turn instead of a a FCI pivot turn. The sit should have been more assume the basic position instead of a mid stride halt and less 
handler help with the head turn. The down looked like a regular IPO I motion exercise? Do you lose any points if you don't halt/hesitate? LOTS of handler help on the finish after the recall but it was a BH and attitude counts for a lot. 
I like that old panel truck in the back ground. Somebody should make a dog hauling Street Rod out of it ;-)


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

As an aside, this dog is currently for sale, if anyone is interested let me know and I'll put you in touch with his owner.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

SIDE TOPIC.

can anyone share any video of a really good FCI about turn... thanks in advance...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> SIDE TOPIC.
> 
> can anyone share any video of a really good FCI about turn... thanks in advance...


I think these are good:

On this video watch starting approx .42 and again at 1.27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ECt1i7gIw&feature=related


On this video watch the 2nd about starting @ approx 1.25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHyf7TTgh0A


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5DIUvyOGJ8&feature=youtube_gdata_player


About turn happens around the 3 minute mark.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thank you ladies.. :-o


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Not a problem, Joby..


Donna, 

Here is a pretty nice BH routine from this year..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZjLLkPA9M4&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Lori Gallo (May 16, 2011)

The dog in that last video looks like he is prancing and bouncing. Isn't there something in the new rules about this being incorrect? Aren't the judges looking for a more level topline?

I think we mess up the dog's necks by making them heel this way! I want to bring that dog to a chiropractor....


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Here are a couple of IPO 1 videos from this year

Obedience:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqEVARA5l68&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Protection:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0vOWfDrL64&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Not sure what you lose for the bounce..but personally I will take that upbeat, attentive look over some of the other BH routines I found. 

As for the style of heeling. I had a Malinois who naturally kept her head in that position and I trained away from it, as at that time I didn't want that look. I don't think the dogs find it to be as uncomfortable as it might look to some of us. The dog gets used to whatever we expect them to do.


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## Lori Gallo (May 16, 2011)

Tracey I love the dog's temperament! I do feel that it might be more natural for a Malinois to heel that way, no scientific proof mind you but it seems like the mals just do it more naturally.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

In the new rules does it state what commands are acceptable for the sit and down(old motion exercises) after stopping.Is a stay command acceptable?? I have heard people just saying sit after the dog has already sat but was interested in whats people are doing


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Wow, the protection video looked just like the IPO I I did with my Dobermann last month. Except Flann is red and rust and not Black and rust and has floppy ears and not cropped.
And except Flann almost missed the escape bite grip and he slowed down on the long bite when the decoy did.
Other then that it looked exactly the same ;-)




Tracey Hughes said:


> Here are a couple of IPO 1 videos from this year
> 
> Obedience:
> 
> ...


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

brad robert said:


> In the new rules does it state what commands are acceptable for the sit and down(old motion exercises) after stopping.Is a stay command acceptable?? I have heard people just saying sit after the dog has already sat but was interested in whats people are doing


I tried using a stay command during training but my dog keeps standing. Do you think he is confused between stay and steh? ;-)


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I tried using a stay command during training but my dog keeps standing. Do you think he is confused between stay and steh? ;-)


Sounds like it 

I was wondering if there was a loss of points for saying stay or a command thats not in the rule book


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Brad if you give your dog a double command it's points off. When you do the out of motion exercises you give a verbal command, if the dog does the behavior prior to the verbal command then it's points off for anticipating the command. 

In schutzund you are supposed to use one language throughout, but you choose the language. For example, if you use German commands, sitz means sitz, platz means platz and steh means steh, the dog is supposed to stay until you tell him otherwise.

This is the same as it ever was.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> In schutzund you are supposed to use one language throughout, but you choose the language. For example, if you use German commands, sitz means sitz, platz means platz and steh means steh, the dog is supposed to stay until you tell him otherwise.
> 
> This is the same as it ever was.


Thought it was one command per action? I use both German and English with my Lab and haven't had points taken off. Mostly German, but I use 'front' instead of 'heir' and 'out' instead of 'aus'. I thought you couldn't start using, for instance, the word 'front' and then switch to 'heir' halfway through the routine.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Thought it was one command per action? I use both German and English with my Lab and haven't had points taken off. Mostly German, but I use 'front' instead of 'heir' and 'out' instead of 'aus'. I thought you couldn't start using, for instance, the word 'front' and then switch to 'heir' halfway through the routine.


I think you're right, I don't know where I got the one language thing from, sure can't find anything that says that in the rulebook!!! 
:smile:


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> I think you're right, I don't know where I got the one language thing from, sure can't find anything that says that in the rulebook!!!
> :smile:


You probably got it from the new rules seminar we were both at. Remember how they made a big deal about what you can and cannot say for the escape command? Geh versus Go. Someone even pointed out the Powerpoint gave the example of "go." Oops that was either a mistake or they meant if you're using English throughout you can use go was the response.

Laura


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Louise Jollyman said:


> Here's most of a BH done in March 2012 -
> 
> very nice, dog has alot of style! good camera work too.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> You probably got it from the new rules seminar we were both at. Remember how they made a big deal about what you can and cannot say for the escape command? Geh versus Go. Someone even pointed out the Powerpoint gave the example of "go." Oops that was either a mistake or they meant if you're using English throughout you can use go was the response.
> 
> Laura


Thanks Laura, that was it all right!


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> very nice, dog has alot of style! good camera work too.


Thanks Donna, I can't take credit for the dog, the handler or the camera work! This is one of our club members with her first dog doing her BH, she did a really nice job!!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> You probably got it from the new rules seminar we were both at. Remember how they made a big deal about what you can and cannot say for the escape command? Geh versus Go. Someone even pointed out the Powerpoint gave the example of "go." Oops that was either a mistake or they meant if you're using English throughout you can use go was the response.
> 
> Laura


Laura the rules situation in the US is screwed up. The USCA translation is the pits. How that version has magically become the AWDF rules is beyond me and we here in the US should not expect those same rules when trialing under a judge from another organization. Anyway, if it ain't in the book it ain't a rule.

Personally I think this same language stuff is bullshit. If you use the same command throughout the trial it makes no difference. It's silly nonsense like this that drives people crazy. 

Maybe It gives judges that don't know dogs very well something to do?


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## Gregory Doud (Nov 10, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Personally I think this same language stuff is bullshit. If you use the same command throughout the trial it makes no difference. It's silly nonsense like this that drives people crazy.
> 
> Maybe It gives judges that don't know dogs very well something to do?


I am in 100% agreement with you Chris. It shouldn't matter what language or word you communicate your dog with. It's a very silly topic to even discuss and isn't relevant at all while trialing. 

I think you're right that the judges that would make a big issue out of this don't see the forest from the trees. Maybe they don't even know the difference. Hehe. Just my two cents. - Greg


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I used both German and English commands when I trialed with my dog. I never had anyone comment on it.


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

brad robert said:


> In the new rules does it state what commands are acceptable for the sit and down(old motion exercises) after stopping.Is a stay command acceptable?? I have heard people just saying sit after the dog has already sat but was interested in whats people are doing


 There is NO stay command in IPO...Sit is Sit until told to do something else......You Can NOT give a stay command, if you do, ALL point could be lost...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Brad: Those of us who use German commands say "steh" for the stand out of motion, which sounds a lot like "stay". Maybe that's what you were hearing?


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

Gregory Doud said:


> I think you're right that the judges that would make a big issue out of this don't see the forest from the trees. Maybe they don't even know the difference. Hehe. Just my two cents. - Greg


 The rule states as written _IN ENGLISH_ in the FCI translation ( and not the clearest translation)

_Commands that are embodied in the trial rules are spoken in a normal, short and in a one word manner. 
They may be done in any language, however must remain the same for an exercise.(valid for all phases). 
The commands provided in the rules are suggestions. The same word is to be used for the same exercise. 
_
Unfortunately the "offifcial" rules are the ones written in German, and this may be a translation problem. At the FCI meeting it was stated for sure that the language must stay the same throughout also...

You may think it is for Judges that don't know what they are looking at...But I can tell you for me, at a club trial I will mention it but not kill people for it....But at a championship??? There MUST be a difference from the handler that follows the rules and the one that does not.

I'm not on the committe that writes the rules so I don't know why it is....But I will follow it..... 

Frank


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> I used both German and English commands when I trialed with my dog. I never had anyone comment on it.


 Before the rule change in Jan 2012? Or maybe the judge didn't notice it....


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> You probably got it from the new rules seminar we were both at. Remember how they made a big deal about what you can and cannot say for the escape command? Geh versus Go. Someone even pointed out the Powerpoint gave the example of "go." Oops that was either a mistake or they meant if you're using English throughout you can use go was the response.
> 
> Laura


Now I remember too that some of us didn't want to use "geh" because we thought it sounded too much like "steh" which is our stand out of motion command. Granted, at the escape, most dogs wouldn't even bother looking at us like we were nuts for telling them to stand when the helper takes off, they would just go, but still, you just never know, and why take a chance. What's that old saying "my dog never did that before"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't the conversation morph into we can use (for example) the same release command we use for the long bite?


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Laura the rules situation in the US is screwed up. The USCA translation is the pits. How that version has magically become the AWDF rules is beyond me and we here in the US should not expect those same rules when trialing under a judge from another organization. Anyway, if it ain't in the book it ain't a rule.
> 
> Personally I think this same language stuff is bullshit. If you use the same command throughout the trial it makes no difference. It's silly nonsense like this that drives people crazy.
> 
> Maybe It gives judges that don't know dogs very well something to do?


 First off Chris... UScA does NOT have a translated Trial rules version yet. So what are you talking about when you say_ "The USCA translation is the pits. How that version has magically become the AWDF rules "_ Because the UScA rules are not out yet..... The rules that everyone is quoting is the FCI english translation and has nothing to do with UScA, it was translated by the FCI, sorry this is not really an opportunity for you to bash UScA (as I know you love to do :smile: ) And it is actually stated right in the FCI english translation that the German rules are the "actual rules" So yes it is difficult to know which version to believe... 

As for your opinion of the rules, I understand your position, but...For example, I am Judging tracking at the Mal Championship this year and in the rules it says if you want to stop to fix the line before the start it must be at least 2 meters from scent pad...If someone stops 1 meter from the flag does that really make a difference??? No, of course not, but at Mal Nationals this year there WILL be a deduction for it :smile:...Why??? Because the rules say it is not correct.....and at a Championship, there MUST be a difference between the team that follows the rules and the one that doesn't....


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Frank:

Thank you for the clarifications. Do you know when the USCA rules will be available? It is July and the rules were made into effect in Jan. I was told some members were in the process of translating the rules into english. I understand it is a volunteer bases, but yet it seems every trial I go to their is always some interpretation of the rules happening by every body.


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

Mario Fernandez said:


> Frank:
> 
> Thank you for the clarifications. Do you know when the USCA rules will be available? It is July and the rules were made into effect in Jan. I was told some members were in the process of translating the rules into english. I understand it is a volunteer bases, but yet it seems every trial I go to their is always some interpretation of the rules happening by every body.


 That may or may not help....sorry... Different contries can have different variences to the rules and sometimes Judges have different interpretations to rules..... a lot of the information was initially put out at "Judges meetings" and is harder for some that could not attend...

From what I was told, UScA, AWMA, GSSCC, DVG and others were working on a "North American" version of the rules. One set so "most" of us have the same set of rules (AWDF members and GSSCC)

I was first told it would be out Feb timeframe but there was some hold ups (not sure what they are) and I do not know for sure when they will be out....sorry I can't be more help....


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

If I remember correctly the new rules were originally supposed to go into effect on 1/1/11 but were postponed for a year because ????
Maybe during the one year delay someone might have read the proposed changes in their own language and noticed they were
AFU??


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Frank Phillips said:


> There is NO stay command in IPO...Sit is Sit until told to do something else......You Can NOT give a stay command, if you do, ALL point could be lost...


Ok thank you this clarified alot of what i meant.I still dont get the anal attitude of the commands i thought what ever worked for THAT dog is best as long as your not having a convo with the dog just to get it to do a basic command?



susan tuck said:


> Brad: Those of us who use German commands say "steh" for the stand out of motion, which sounds a lot like "stay". Maybe that's what you were hearing?


I was more interested to see if anyone was using the stay command.But thanks Susan


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## Frank Phillips (Jan 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> If I remember correctly the new rules were originally supposed to go into effect on 1/1/11 but were postponed for a year because ????
> Maybe during the one year delay someone might have read the proposed changes in their own language and noticed they were
> AFU??


Except the only version available back then was the German version....I don't think the English translation was available until around November 2011....

I agree the FCI English version should be fixed, but I have no idea how that would be done within the FCI


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Frank Phillips said:


> Except the only version available back then was the German version....I don't think the English translation was available until around November 2011....
> 
> I agree the FCI English version should be fixed, but I have no idea how that would be done within the FCI


Hi Frank

Then maybe someone should have been working on the various translations and double checking it? I'll send a PM about the FCI translation


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## Gregory Doud (Nov 10, 2008)

Frank Phillips said:


> The rule states as written _IN ENGLISH_ in the FCI translation ( and not the clearest translation)
> 
> _Commands that are embodied in the trial rules are spoken in a normal, short and in a one word manner. _
> _They may be done in any language, however must remain the same for an exercise.(valid for all phases). _
> ...


 
Point taken. But, what if the handler uses a language a judge is not familiar with? Does that handler get punished if he uses, let's say, Chinese for 90% of the commands and Hungarian for the other 10%? Meaning that only if the judge is familiar with the language of the commands the participant uses it's going to be penalized/enforced? Many different languages are used at world championships from several countries. A judge can't be up to date and be well versed in all the dog training commands being used. It really is an irrational rule IMO. Especially at the highest of levels. 

I'd rather have the judge be consistent in the stuff that actually counts. Like the three second pause rule in obedience. That can and should be enforced at all championships. Just my thoughts on this. - Greg


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