# Shaping



## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm trying to learn to use the clicker and shaping behavors. My road block is my dog is slow and lazy to try. I taught him to sit and lay down but now doesn't want to try offer anything. he just defaults to lay down and stays there. he is sometimes excited for hot dogs and sausage bits but sometimes not really. What can do to get him off the ground and trying.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Always work with a hungry dog.
If he has to go without dinner to be hungry enough, so be it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

wait. You will either have a great down stay, or he will get up to see why it is mot working. LOL


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Polliana Oliveira said:


> I'm trying to learn to use the clicker and shaping behavors. My road block is my dog is slow and lazy to try. I taught him to sit and lay down but now doesn't want to try offer anything. he just defaults to lay down and stays there. he is sometimes excited for hot dogs and sausage bits but sometimes not really. What can do to get him off the ground and trying.


This is something we see in dogs that have been trained with baiting/luring and/or classical conditioning. The dog has learned that it cannot affect its surroundings. Secondly, the dog has learned a "default" behavior (down) and has been taught duration (stay) in that behavior.

Your dog is only showing you what it knows, because it doesn't know how to try anything else.

A simple behavior to start out with is a nose touch. Fast your dog for a day... or two... or even three if necessary to get your dog excited for food. Get a fabulous piece of smelly soft food. Hold it in your hand. Don't move your hand. When your dog sniffs your hand, click and toss the food. Repeat 5 times in a row. Your dog should be learning that touching your hand made the food appear.

After your dog truly understand the concept - and that can take 2 weeks! - then you would want to start introducing your dog to one way to manipulate its environment per day. 

Starter behaviors are:

Targets - touch items with his nose. Choose items to correspond with your training discipline.

Eye contact - this is an essential behavior!

After that, you can click everything your dog does. If your dog is walking out of the room, you could shape it into a "place" "vraous" or send away (or any other distance work. If you dog comes back, you can shape it into recall, attention, heeling, front or finish.

Ths first step is for your dog to learn to manipulate you/click/food by offering behaviors. Operant conditioning deals only with voluntarily offered behaviors. You cannot use operant conditioning if the dog does not voluntarily offer behaviors.


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## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

thanks guys. yes great down stay! good dog good dog! stupid human stupid human


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## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

so I should not add duration to any behaviors just yet?


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## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

I think I've messed it up a bit


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I'd stay away from the down for awhile, firmly teach a couple other behaviors before ever going back to down, and throw the damn clicker away. ;-)


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

*snort* :-$


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## Ryan Cole (Mar 5, 2009)

Polliana Oliveira said:


> so I should not add duration to any behaviors just yet?


The Leerburg Marker Training free essay is chock full of good details on HOW to do the clicker/marker training.
I think it's linked here in the training posts, or search -- it's good!


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I've only played around with clicker training with my dogs, so no expert, but I do use the clicker. For me, it's just another tool to communicate with my dog. 

My malinois took to clicker training and figured it out quickly. I have done a bit of shaping, some target work and some operant stuff (I've been reading Anne's posts, and I think that's what I'm getting from my dog) It's fun for him and for me.

My labx took a bunch of sessions before he got the concept of how doing something made the clicker work and the treats flow. Asking for a target touch (I used a plastic yogurt lid) seemed to help him grasp the idea of do something by my left hand, hear click, get treat from my right hand and put it all together. You could almost see the light bulb go off. Despite being food motivated, he doesn't really want to work very hard for it. I doubt he will ever show the same enthusiasm that my mali does, but he does seem to understand now and he does try. 

Definitely get treats your dog really, really likes and train when he's hungry. I know I will work way harder for a nice piece of Lindt chocolate, than I will for a chunk of broccoli.


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## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

Ryan Cole said:


> The Leerburg Marker Training free essay is chock full of good details on HOW to do the clicker/marker training.
> I think it's linked here in the training posts, or search -- it's good!


I just check out the podcast about marker training. I wish I had listened to it before I got started. oh well.](*,)


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

No worries! It's a way of communicating that will take some practice for both you and your dog to learn!

I would not do any duration AT ALL. Because if your dog offers the duration, it stops offering behaviors, which leaves you nothing to mark and reward, which ends the training session.

When your dog offers duration, an informal cue that essentailly means "move your fat arse, we're not finished yet" works :lol: I'll use my toe to tap under the dogs belly and walk away. Most dogs will pop up and follow. Which you would click and reward. (Because standing is closer to the behavior than lying down).

Be patient - it's hard to start out with a dog like this! It's frustrating even for me. :lol: But TOTALLY worth it!


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## Christen Adkins (Nov 27, 2006)

> Be patient - it's hard to start out with a dog like this! It's frustrating even for me. But TOTALLY worth it!


Words of wisdom there. It took me weeks of daily work to get my APBT to begin to offer behaviors besides the default SIT, something he had been taught and drilled before I obtained him. Everything was sit, sit, sit, sit. I have to say that just seeing him start to think on his own and watching those (rusty) gears begin to turn was as rewarding as having a beautiful heeling session from my more advanced dog. 

Anne gave you some good advice. Good luck and keep at it.


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