# as weird as it gets



## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

since i been allowed back at the AKC (with conditions) have been working on not being an A-hole (its tough).

so having some banter with a lady thats been breeding champion british bulldogs (mac truck logo) for 20+ years and in the conversation this came up;

the breed cannot concieve or give birth naturally - on average

reason/s

1. conception is too hard on the males breathing as their pushed up noses restricts breathing + they have a genetic soft pallete which also interferes with the breathing when they are excited?? the males can die on the job. so for 20 years its all AI. apparently standard practice in the breed.

2. the pups head and shoulders are that big that all births are done by surgical methods as the risk is too high of losing the female during birth.

all standard procedure for reputable breeders, pups sell for $4000 starting price!!


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

And????? Can you imagine the costs of a litter. Its the same for several of the toy breeds as well. A vet practice here did a C-section on a corgi to the tune of $1200.

T


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

One of my theriogenology (reproduction) professors in vet school was originally from South Africa. He worked with a bulldog breeder who was actually serious about bettering the breed. He said they agreed that if a dog couldn't breed a female naturally, he was not used. If a female was not able to whelp naturally and had to have a c-section, she was c-sectioned and spayed. He reported within about 3 generations of selectively breeding for these traits, they were back to breeding and whelping naturally again since they specifically selected for that trait. A bit scary how quickly a breed will go downhill in reproductive fitness if allowed...


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> And????? Can you imagine the costs of a litter. Its the same for several of the toy breeds as well. A vet practice here did a C-section on a corgi to the tune of $1200.
> 
> T


thats one way to look at it, another way is - WTF are you people doing to these animals.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> WTF are you people doing to these animals.


 
Well, I thought that was the obvious. The bulldogs have been the prime example of breed ruin for many years. What I don't understand is folks paying $4000 for a perpetual vet bill.

T


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

simple, the more sick and deformed they are, the less survive, the less survive the more rare they are, the more rare they are the more expensive the pups become - moral of the story.....


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Yeah what a mess.

I have seen them from 2000 -3000 but 4000k holy crap.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> And????? Can you imagine the costs of a litter. Its the same for several of the toy breeds as well. A vet practice here did a C-section on a corgi to the tune of $1200.
> 
> T


 
That's crazy, I had a detached placenta in my last whelp. 2 hours no puppies but momma was still contracting...when to the vet. we had 4 on the ground already. a C-section later, we had 4 more. total bill
$531.00


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

They breed them because people buy them. As long as there are buyers willing to fork out that kind of money for that kind of crap, someone will produce it.


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## Craig Snyder (May 7, 2012)

The bulldog was ruined. It was once a great fighting dog and then used for rounding up bulls and bear baiting. What the breed looked like in the mid 1800's and what it is now are two totally different dogs.

You can read a short history here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldog

Here's a real interesting article with several early awesome pictures of early bulldogs. 

http://www.wweba.com/WWEBA/history.html

To say that breed fanciers have ruined this breed is an understatement!

Craig


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

James Downey said:


> That's crazy, I had a detached placenta in my last whelp. 2 hours no puppies but momma was still contracting...when to the vet. we had 4 on the ground already. a C-section later, we had 4 more. total bill
> $531.00


Was this out here in CA? Who was the vet? Last time I had to have a c-section done, female had whelped 1/2 the litter naturally but then we ran into some problems and had to do the c-section, it cost just over 1000. And that was a couple of years ago, my vets prices have gone up considerably since then. I like him, and his work, but I'm not sure I can afford him anymore, so I may be looking for a new one.


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> simple, the more sick and deformed they are, the less survive, the less survive the more rare they are, the more rare they are the more expensive the pups become - moral of the story.....


Wow Pete you may be on to something! ;-) 
I hate what they have done to the EB and to make matters worst. In my breed (American Bulldog) some of the johnson/bully type people are working hard to create huge (120lb) AB that looks a like EBs. yuck, yuck, yuck
They share several of the same problems, elongated soft palates, pinched nares, wry mouthed, no heat tolerance and bad hips (40-45% dysplastic) just to name a few. 
Talk about the ruination of a good dog!


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

the weird bit is that this has become the norm for the breed, the registry doesn't identify this as a problem.


what about the profit mongers that don't pay for the C- section, how many girls die in excruciating pain???


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> the weird bit is that this has become the norm for the breed, the registry doesn't identify this as a problem.


Perhaps, but it appears that on some level times are changing: http://www.bestinshowdaily.com/blog/2012/03/crufts-campaign-against-the-purebred-dog/


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