# FDA recommends No Bones of any kind



## Michael Mallen (Dec 16, 2009)

I've been feeding bones for over 25 years--any comments?

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm208365.htm


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

A bunch of fear mongers :-& Next they'll recommend we don't take doggies outside without a raincoat and booties on


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## Michael Mallen (Dec 16, 2009)

I agree, but here is a very politically powerful organization with a recommendation to stop. Are they going to recommend banning the commercial bones now available to dog owners?

I have NEVER had one problem with big knuckle bones ever--not one broken tooth or any issues with digestion.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Cooked bones? Yep, steer clear. I've also gotten away from letting my dogs eat the large weight bearing raw bones (like cow femurs). They seem to turn hard and splinter quickly if left out. My in-law's dog had a slab fracture of his upper fourth pre-molar (the big carnassial) from chewing on raw bison marrow bones they gave to him.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

I noticed in the media announcement that this was recommended by 'a vet' but they did not give a name so I find no merit in it. Just someone else trying to make decisions for us. Fact is that I have fed raw venison with bones as well as raw chicken for nearly 15 years with absolutely no problems other than bad gas every once in a while. Our only vet visits are for rabies, spays/neuters and an occasional dog fight stitching. Teeth and muscle condition are superb. This is fed to my DS, GSDs and the Chi with no complications.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Oops, my mistake, just read the actual printed announcement that does quote a vet. The announcement that I mentioned prior post was on the radio with no mention of vet. I stand corrected, sorry.


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## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

Look, this is the same agency that says Rx drugs are safe and herbal remedies are dangerous, yet look at how many FDA approved drugs rushed onto the market by the big drug companies trying to make a buck, and then a few years later they are pulled because people are dying or made horribly sick. I don't put much weight on anything they say.

My dogs did get slab fractures from eating cooked beef leg bones, but I've had no problems with raw bones, especially the split knuckles. Been feeding them for years.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

It was a raw marrow (femur) bone that fractured my in-law's dog's carnassial. I got away from beef spare ribs because my old dog got a rib somehow wedged between the two upper rows on his hard palate on the roof of his mouth. I had come home and he was sitting there drooling and pawing at his face. It was wedged pretty good, but I managed to free it without hurting his teeth. I've now got a great source of grass fed lamb bones (mostly spinous processes, necks, and the occasional scapula) that seem to be much less of a potential for a problem.And she only charges me just a little over $1 a pound for them, which she's happy to make a little extra money on.


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## Michael Mallen (Dec 16, 2009)

The FDA Vet did not specify cooked or raw, just bones. I have fed both and have had no problems with the large knuckles that do not splinter but give the dog the ability to get to the marrow.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Cooked bones splintering is a myth. Depending on how you cook it, it may be actually LESS likely to splinter. Guess what I did in an experimental archaeolody research project, to make bone easy to cut and bend?? Boil overnight or pressure cook it. 

Chicken bones, pork ribs, lamb necks, all get much much softer when they are stewed for several hours. Chicken bones and fish bones in a pressure cooker get soft enough for me to eat.

Dry them out, and it won't matter if it was raw or cooked, dry bone will splinter into fine shards.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Michael Mallen said:


> The FDA Vet did not specify cooked or raw, just bones. I have fed both and have had no problems with the large knuckles that do not splinter but give the dog the ability to get to the marrow.



Just because *your* (the royal "your") dog does not splinter large weight bearing bones, does not mean that all dogs are safe to chew them. This desire to crack large weight bearning bones open (making large indigestable splinters and risking tooth fracture) is not a breed thing...some dogs just do it and some don't.

My Toller is NOT safe with large knuckle bones IMHO. The possibility of a tooth fracture is high with him as he is a very agressive chewer. He works to crack open the weight bearing part..big time. He will also eat large shards that are not digestable...scarry looking when they come out the other end...well both ends actually. I could still give him one, but would have to take it away within 10 min to avoid him doing bad things. I know a couple of dogs with tooth fractures from raw weight bearing bones...it is pretty common I think. Not worth the risk for me personally. These are likely the kind of dogs the vets see.

That said I know plenty of other dogs, big and small that will just clean the meat and cartelage off a bone like that, and lick at the marrow...and then knaw at the bone for a few days. No problem. If I had a dog like that I would feed them those bones for sure.

I am a raw feeder, and my Toller does eat digestable bone...chicken, turkey necks and so on. For teeth cleaning and longer chewing I have moved to things like buffalo tail, and some smaller venison neck bones..that are still a meal...not just recreation, but take longer to chew and eat. Less chance of splinters and tooth cracks. The bone comes out digested on the other end.

I don't like when people say NEVER do this or NEVER do that...I don't need the FDA to tell me how to feed my dog. That said....not all dogs are safe with all bones, and there are risks.

One just has to decide if the risk is worth the reward for their personal dogs. Common sense is not that common any more though.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> Cooked bones splintering is a myth. Depending on how you cook it, it may be actually LESS likely to splinter. Guess what I did in an experimental archaeolody research project, to make bone easy to cut and bend?? Boil overnight or pressure cook it.
> 
> Chicken bones, pork ribs, lamb necks, all get much much softer when they are stewed for several hours. Chicken bones and fish bones in a pressure cooker get soft enough for me to eat.
> 
> Dry them out, and it won't matter if it was raw or cooked, dry bone will splinter into fine shards.


I think we're talking about recreational bones here, not so much for actual meals, but doesn't that kind of negate their teeth cleaning properties if you make them real soft? I agree with not letting bones dry out. I used get the big raw cow femurs from our university meat lab, but the shank definitely cracks if it allowed to sit out and dry for very long. Drop them on concrete and they fragment. So I'd suggest if you must give the big weight bearing bones, toss them after like 12-24 hours, much to the dogs' chagrin, of course. ;-)

Oh, and +1 for Jennifer's whole post. :-D


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## Michael Mallen (Dec 16, 2009)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Just because *your* (the royal "your") dog does not splinter large weight bearing bones, does not mean that all dogs are safe to chew them. This desire to crack large weight bearning bones open (making large indigestable splinters and risking tooth fracture) is not a breed thing...some dogs just do it and some don't.
> 
> My Toller is NOT safe with large knuckle bones IMHO. The possibility of a tooth fracture is high with him as he is a very agressive chewer. He works to crack open the weight bearing part..big time. He will also eat large shards that are not digestable...scarry looking when they come out the other end...well both ends actually. I could still give him one, but would have to take it away within 10 min to avoid him doing bad things. I know a couple of dogs with tooth fractures from raw weight bearing bones...it is pretty common I think. Not worth the risk for me personally. These are likely the kind of dogs the vets see.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you, but I have had Rotts and GSD's, and have had no problems. I also watch how they work a bone BEFORE I allow them freedom on it. I am very selective about what I allow them to 
chew on. The whole point of this thread is that an FDA Vet has announced the 8 to 10 reasons NOT to give your dog bones, and that is ridiculous. Its like the American Vet Assoc. coming out agains feeding raw (which they have not). This is about common sense and good judgement. I am just incensed to have the FDA picking this subject, when there are so many other worthwhile ones they could be working on.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I buy bags of cut up knuckle bones and empty a bag into each yard and never had a problem. I keep a paor of pliers handy to pull tree limbs out of the roof of their mouths that they have been playing tug of war with. They get over zealous and bite down too hard and shear of both ends and the lowers drive the piece in between the uppers like Maren was referring to.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I buy bags of cut up knuckle bones and empty a bag into each yard and never had a problem. I keep a paor of pliers handy to pull tree limbs out of the roof of their mouths that they have been playing tug of war with. They get over zealous and bite down too hard and shear of both ends and the lowers drive the piece in between the uppers like Maren was referring to.



:lol::lol:
I had a Border terrier dog that use to redirerct on the wooden telephone pole in the yard when kids in the field teased the dogs. I was alway pulling big splinters out of his mouth.


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## Pamella Renaldi (Mar 6, 2010)

Anna Kasho said:


> Cooked bones splintering is a myth. Depending on how you cook it, it may be actually LESS likely to splinter. Guess what I did in an experimental archaeolody research project, to make bone easy to cut and bend?? Boil overnight or pressure cook it.
> 
> Chicken bones, pork ribs, lamb necks, all get much much softer when they are stewed for several hours. Chicken bones and fish bones in a pressure cooker get soft enough for me to eat.
> 
> Dry them out, and it won't matter if it was raw or cooked, dry bone will splinter into fine shards.


Yeah, if you use a pressure cooker and cook chicken bones right they can crumble by only pressing them lightly. It is safe to be eaten too. By the way it taste good, really.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Fresh, raw marrow bones have been used forever. Like with anything...supervise the critter.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, can't do much once the damage has been done, even if you're supervising. And really, how many folks have ever thrown a bone to their dog in the crate or kennel and walked away to go do something else? Probably just about everyone, yes? Why risk it when their teeth are their livelihood and there are better alternatives? I'm loving the lamb bones, Howard. Do you butcher your own sheep or send them away for processing? Ask them if they can save the less desirable bones for you (scapula, neck, spinous processes, ribs) that are non weight bearing.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

lets see....

*Broken teeth.* 
Not sure, but most certainly a possibility. Cant say I have always noticed these things right away :wink:

*Mouth or tongue injuries.* 
Yup Bloody gums

*Bone gets looped around your dog’s lower jaw.* 
Never seen this

*Bone gets stuck in esophagus*
Nope

*Bone gets stuck in windpipe.* 
Yes just a few weeks ago, scared me into literally shaking.

*Bone gets stuck in stomach.* *Bone gets stuck in intestines* 
I guess I wont know until its a problem..

*Constipation due to bone fragments.* 
Not yet.

*Severe bleeding from the rectum.* 
I dont know if I would label it "severe" but yes seen chards and blood in one of my dogs.

*Peritonitis.* 
Not that I know of.

I guess I have seen a few of these and some are unknown at this point. I have dogs that are great with bones and some that will never see a bone again.....

t


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

We are talking about dogs people. If they don't know how to handle a bone they are some pretty sorry dogs. In a few more decades of human intervention, they should be about as useless as most kids these days. Dogs are already getting allergies to grass and everything else that shouldn't bother them.... just like people.....thanks to this kind of oversight.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Michael Mallen said:


> I've been feeding bones for over 25 years--any comments?
> 
> http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm208365.htm


I have one comment......WHATEVER!!! 

Sorry, I really have nothing more to contribute other than that. I look at my dogs and see nothing but happy, healthy, energetic beasts that LOVE their diet. 

I agree that aggressive chewers need something other than the hard knuckle bones and what not to chew on, but all of my dogs are slow, methodical chewers that savor their recreational bones. 

I would not ever feed cooked bones of any kind, just my preference....


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

I've always let my dogs have bones. I never had an issue with any of them until late last week when one of them had the bone get stuck in his esophagus. He was an aggressive chewer but never had a problem with him eating bones before until this one time. Accidents can happen and all it takes is once. I ended up having to put him down this morning because of it.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> I've always let my dogs have bones. I never had an issue with any of them until late last week when one of them had the bone get stuck in his esophagus. He was an aggressive chewer but never had a problem with him eating bones before until this one time. Accidents can happen and all it takes is once. I ended up having to put him down this morning because of it.



It's to bad about your dog Jesus, but shit happens. People die choking on food all the time. People die on car accidents....do y'all keep your significant other half from getting in a car....ok, that may have been a bad example....so how about your kids? You people may as well realize you can't control life. Shit happens. You never feed your dog bones and if it is his time, he will have kidney failure or get run over. You can set a fresh bowl,of water don next to a mud puddle and they will drink from the mud puddle every time. You just can't control everything. So you keep them safe and don't feed bones and you have a heart attack. What was the point?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> I've always let my dogs have bones. I never had an issue with any of them until late last week when one of them had the bone get stuck in his esophagus. He was an aggressive chewer but never had a problem with him eating bones before until this one time. Accidents can happen and all it takes is once. I ended up having to put him down this morning because of it.


I sure do hope you are not blaming yourself.

I don't give recreational bones because of the experience of a long-ago Tufts bill for a Border Terrier fracturing a molar on a marrow bone. But it was that experience that colored my POV. If it hadn't happened, I don't know if I would have adopted my practice of never giving recreational bones (only the digestible bones in a raw diet).

What I'm trying to say is, I'm with Don. Stuff happens. What happened to your dog could never have been anticipated.

I'm sorry you had to go through this.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

About a month ago my husky X was eating a raw knuckle bone at the pet store i work at, she has had raw bones for 3 yrs without incident , I was talking to one of my students all the sudden i heard a noise from her, she is choking and cannot get any air in or out , she had a peice of bone stuck in her throat , i opened her mouth and had my boss try to grab it , but he couldnt reach it just the tip of his finger could touch it .
she was pretty much dying in front of me , I new i couldnt make it to the vet without her being dead while i tried to get there 
I ended up doing the hymlic ( SP) manuver to her that i had learned from a pet first aid seminar
I had to do it HARD 3 X s and the bone flew out and she went for it right away , little Bitch , lol 
anyways , she would have died if i was not there or didnt know what to do , scary stuff for sure, but stuff happens


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> It's to bad about your dog Jesus, but shit happens. People die choking on food all the time. People die on car accidents....do y'all keep your significant other half from getting in a car....ok, that may have been a bad example....so how about your kids? You people may as well realize you can't control life. Shit happens. You never feed your dog bones and if it is his time, he will have kidney failure or get run over. You can set a fresh bowl,of water don next to a mud puddle and they will drink from the mud puddle every time. You just can't control everything. So you keep them safe and don't feed bones and you have a heart attack. What was the point?


I agree accidents happen and when it's time, that's it, game over. This dog was just a pet. Not that that makes it any better. But, if it had been a dog that I was working and I had put several years of my time, money, energy and training into would giving him that bone been worth it? Maybe for some but not for me.



Connie Sutherland said:


> I sure do hope you are not blaming yourself.
> 
> I don't give recreational bones because of the experience of a long-ago Tufts bill for a Border Terrier fracturing a molar on a marrow bone. But it was that experience that colored my POV. If it hadn't happened, I don't know if I would have adopted my practice of never giving recreational bones (only the digestible bones in a raw diet).
> 
> ...


Thanks Connie. No I don't blame myself. Like you said, this sort of thing can't be anticipated.


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