# Rattlesnakes!



## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

One of the downsides to living in AZ is the rattlesnake population, especially out in the boonies where we live. 

This year, I've only seen one so far, and it was on the side of the road a couple miles from my house. My husband ran one over a little closer in. Today, not one, but BOTH of my malinois girls found one in our yard!! ](*,)

I let them out this am to potty and get some zoomies out. When I opened the back door to bring them in to eat, I took one look at Abby and said, 'shit, she found a snake' Bolide came up behind her, and I said, 'damn, so did she!'. Apparently, they really DO share everything!! :roll:

Sooo... long story short (too late!) I took them to the emergency vet, and fortunately they didn't react too bad. They flushed out the wounds, started fluids, and sent us home with Tramadol. And I have to give fluids via IV 5 times a day, plus put a salve on Bolide's eye, because she got bitten there.

So, I hate rattlesnakes!!! :neutral:


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Yep. Get on that snake avoidance training. Theyre no joke here either. I have no problem catching one to teach my all my dogs to stay the eff away. There are also snake aversion classes around here, Im sure there are around you too. Glad your pups are ok...ish.


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

I HATE SNAKES!!! They reallly piss me off, ruining good livestock & pets. Thats why I shoot em on sight, no matter the genetics. I hope the pups don't feel too poorly. Take good care of them.


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

we killed this one about a week ago. The biggest one I've ever seen killed and thats saying a lot


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Daaaaaaang!!!


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

I haven't cared TOO much about them in the past - part of the territory! But things change. I have a child now, and very nosey dogs that (judging by the 2-3 dry bites on each dog) kept playing with the damn snake after it bit them!! ](*,)

My biggest concern now is Bolide's eye. The vet wasn't sure exactly how close the fang got, if was very close to, or actually IN the eye. Her eye was swollen shut and dripping blood. When I was doing her first at-home IV it looked like she was literally crying tears of blood. It finally opened last night, but I don't like the look of it. My husband and I both think it looks kind of cloudy. Vet says to bring her back in a few days to check it out.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

In the late '90,s I lived with my Rott in the rain forest (fancy name for jungle) of southwest Costa Rica.
There were literally hundreds of bad ass snakes and scorpions in the area. 

There were no roads or even electricity to the area. I was living in a tiny hamlet known as Bahia Drake (Drakes Bay). The only way in or out was by small boat through a dangerous inlet that went from the Pacific Ocean to the Sierpe River. The nearest doctor or vet was about 4 hours away. Any travel had to be done in daylight hours.

It was important to keep my dog safe. I worked hard with a ecollar and some dead and intentionally wounded snakes to break him of any curiosity.

It was the price I paid to live in a unbelievable, unspoiled, drop dead beautiful coconut lined south Pacific area.:grin:


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

I have posted this before on here but I'll go ahead and do it again since were talking about this. A friend of mine got a lab puppy about 8 years ago and he has a house on lake martin. They were down there one weekend and the pup come back all swelled up. He took her to the vet and long story short she made it. Well the next summer he was down there he let her out in the backyard and walked in the house and when he come back out there was 8-10 dead snakes laying around the back porch and she had bite marks all over her face. She hunts them now and is immune to the poison. Craziest thing I've ever seen and I wouldn't have believed had I not her do it. hell of a dog really


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

I agree. I know that JJ Belcher from Sublime K9 has a snake avoidance class out of Sublime K9 in Az....


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Megan we have cottonmouths and copperheads really bad. We train the dogs to avoid the snakes. I have a king snake we use to do the training with. Dealt with LOTS of snake bites. I hate them too!!


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Jesus, I never really thought of those sorts of issues. We have skunks, and I don't feel so bad about them getting sprayed now. I'd take a smelly dog over a potentially dead dog any day.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Megan Berry said:


> My biggest concern now is Bolide's eye. The vet wasn't sure exactly how close the fang got, if was very close to, or actually IN the eye. Her eye was swollen shut and dripping blood. When I was doing her first at-home IV it looked like she was literally crying tears of blood. It finally opened last night, but I don't like the look of it. My husband and I both think it looks kind of cloudy. Vet says to bring her back in a few days to check it out.


 Dry bites occur when the venom sack isn't compressed during the bite. That said, the hollow fangs do contain some venum. Biting the skull or other bony region can prevent a full dose. Hopefully her eye wasn't puncture by a fang.

I use nasty rat snakes or black racers to teach my dogs that snakes are a no-no. Racers will try to leave an area really fast which kicks in the dogs prey drive. Once caught they are fast to bite. My dogs will kinda follow snakes now, tracking them but won't get near them.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

[QUOTE=Thomas Jones;273152]we killed this one about a week ago. The biggest one I've ever seen killed and thats saying a lot








[/QUOTE]

Gee, is that in AL or WI? Either way, scarey! @Brian, I too am in Louisiana and right now with all the drought we are having the snakes are seriously moving trying to find water. Have killed several cottonmouths and numerous rat snakes at my farm lately. Dogs could care less but the rooster plays havoc with them!


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Denise Gatlin said:


> [QUOTE=Thomas Jones;273152]we killed this one about a week ago. The biggest one I've ever seen killed and thats saying a lot


Gee, is that in AL or WI? Either way, scarey! @Brian, I too am in Louisiana and right now with all the drought we are having the snakes are seriously moving trying to find water. Have killed several cottonmouths and numerous rat snakes at my farm lately. Dogs could care less but the rooster plays havoc with them![/QUOTE]

its in AL. The guy in the pic is about 5'11"


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Ryan Venables said:


> Jesus, I never really thought of those sorts of issues. We have skunks, and I don't feel so bad about them getting sprayed now. I'd take a smelly dog over a potentially dead dog any day.


Most of the time we are just concerned about the horrendous stink...but did you know that if a person or dog gets sprayed directly in the face it can cause acute respiratory distress from fluid in the lungs and blindness. That is some nasty stuff they spray!:-o


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Dry bites occur when the venom sack isn't compressed during the bite. That said, the hollow fangs do contain some venum. Biting the skull or other bony region can prevent a full dose. Hopefully her eye wasn't puncture by a fang.
> 
> I use nasty rat snakes or black racers to teach my dogs that snakes are a no-no. Racers will try to leave an area really fast which kicks in the dogs prey drive. Once caught they are fast to bite. My dogs will kinda follow snakes now, tracking them but won't get near them.


I'm really concerned about how her eye looks. But I won't know anything until I take her to the vet for her follow-up on the 3rd. Sadly, she already had an appointment that day for a titer-count check for her Valley Fever! Poor girl is only 10 months old!! I'm uploading 2 pics to my gallery, one of her good eye, one of her injured. I'm using my cell, so I can't post the photo tags here.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Gina Pasieka said:


> Most of the time we are just concerned about the horrendous stink...but did you know that if a person or dog gets sprayed directly in the face it can cause acute respiratory distress from fluid in the lungs and blindness. That is some nasty stuff they spray!:-o


A dog sprayed in the confines of ground (earth work with terriers) can actually die from toxic shock. They may come out and be fine then the next day or so they're dead. I've known that to happen to a couple of terriers. I've also heard hound men say the same may happen with a direct spray to a hound but I can't verify that.
One of my hunting partners was a veterinarian and when we got a terrier skunked in the ground it was put on an iv drip to flush out it's system. 
I'll take the snakes! I had a Border terrier that killed every snake he came across and never got bit. MOST of the poisonous snakes where we hunted were copperheads and no where near as deadly as the rattlesnakes or cotton mouths
I also like snakes! :twisted::wink:


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

Megan Berry said:


> I'm really concerned about how her eye looks. But I won't know anything until I take her to the vet for her follow-up on the 3rd. Sadly, she already had an appointment that day for a titer-count check for her Valley Fever! Poor girl is only 10 months old!! I'm uploading 2 pics to my gallery, one of her good eye, one of her injured. I'm using my cell, so I can't post the photo tags here.


I looked at your photos. Honestly, I expected it to look much worse 

We have had horses get bitten on the nose and their heads swelled up ungodly huge. So bad, that we have had to put garden hoses up into their nasal passages to keep them open. 

IDK if I would wait until the 3rd of June to have it looked at though. There might be something they can give you to help if the eye has been punctured. If it were me, I would have the eye looked at sooner rather than later. Sometimes you can head off a world of trouble with early intervention. But, I am kind of paranoid that way :wink:

Good luck and please keep us posted!

Kellie


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Megan Berry said:


> One of the downsides to living in AZ is the rattlesnake population, especially out in the boonies where we live.
> 
> This year, I've only seen one so far, and it was on the side of the road a couple miles from my house. My husband ran one over a little closer in. Today, not one, but BOTH of my malinois girls found one in our yard!! ](*,)
> 
> ...


 
Snakes are awesome! But the hots can be a pain quite literally. Especially since canines eat snakes.... including venomous snakes. Also the pain and side effects from the venomous bite is often not felt until later.... so the dog never learns to associate the snake with something bad. 

Last I heard they have a veomous snake vaccine..... you might want to talk to your vet about that. Even if a dog is snake broke he can still be bitten if he passes a bush and the snake strikes him as he walks by. 

http://www.redrockbiologics.com/FAQ.html#1

Maybe Dr. Jones could comment on the vaccine?


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

If the eye has been punctured and leaking, they can patch it by grafting a piece of tissue from a nearby area to seal off the leak. This cost $3500 at the ER vet for a friend's cat. It had to be done by a specialist vet.

If the eye is slightly damaged and doesn't need major repairs, it's probably going to be a wait and see kind of thing, maybe an antibiotic ointment to prevent infection. If you're planning on taking her to the vet for this, I would go ASAP. I'd be sitting there waiting for them to take a quick look. The sooner the better.

I dealt with an eye injury to one of my pups just recently, from a foxtail under the eyelid that did some damage and caused a nasty infected deep ulcer. It wasn't worth the cost of surgery to me, so was treated with a course of oral and topical antibiotics, and waiting to see what would happen. If she was going to lose the eye, that was ok. I put doggles on her to keep her from doing any more damage or getting dirt or whatever in the eye (she was surprisingly good about wearing them) and kept it clean... And luckily her eyeball was able to heal on it's own.

Her whole eye went filmy blue, then little blood vessels grew out from the edge out to surround the injury, then gradually the injury filled in with tissue, then the blue cleared up and finally the blood vessels shrank and disappeared. The whole process took several weeks. Now if I look, I can barely see a slight streak of filmy transparent tissue where the uscer used to be. Pannus, as a result of injury.


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Kellie and Anna -
The ER vet I took her to was a specialist/surgeon as well. I'll call him today and see if he needs me to bring her back in, or if it can wait. I want to get it treated, but on top of the cost of her ongoing valley fever treatments, any surgery will be out of reach. 


Ben -

The downside to the vaccine (from what I've heard) is that some dogs can have a bad reaction to it. Plus, it's just one more thing to add to the ever-growing list of vaccines. The vet didn't give them any anti-venom; he doesn't even carry it. He said too many dogs have just as bad as, or a worse than reaction to it than the actual bite, so it can complicate things.

I'll definitely keep everyone updated as things develop!


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

Megan Berry said:


> Kellie and Anna -
> The ER vet I took her to was a specialist/surgeon as well. I'll call him today and see if he needs me to bring her back in, or if it can wait. I want to get it treated, but on top of the cost of her ongoing valley fever treatments, any surgery will be out of reach.
> !


I certainly understand that. I hope everything works out for you and your pooches!

Kellie


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

Since we are on the subject, sort of, of snakes...I thought you all might enjoy these photos. It was sent to me with the story that a shepherd was losing lambs...and set out to find the culprit and caught this...then I heard that story was not true. Imagine, you can't believe everything you read on the internet#-o LOL

Either way, if I came outside and saw this...I would be running and screaming like the girl that I am:-D


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Gina Pasieka said:


> Most of the time we are just concerned about the horrendous stink...but did you know that if a person or dog gets sprayed directly in the face it can cause acute respiratory distress from fluid in the lungs and blindness. That is some nasty stuff they spray!:-o


She actually got it right in the face/mouth... no eye issues but wow GI issues for a couple days... nothing like shooting liquid out of both ends. She's been sprayed 3 times now, one direct, two glancing... but I really dislike them now


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Kellie Wolverton said:


> I certainly understand that. I hope everything works out for you and your pooches!
> 
> Kellie


Thanks Kellie!

I just feel so bad for several reasons.
1- she's only 10 months old for pete's sake!! Talk about rotten luck!
2-working dogs have been my interest, not my husband's. He got attached to Bolide, and when the breeder gave us the replacement pup, then let us keep her, she became his. Now he is really into training, and if she loses her eye, her work potential goes downhill fast.
3- I still feel like its my fault they got bitten, because I left them in thw yard a bit longer than usual. It was nice out, so I was letting them enjoy it. But if I had just followed our routine....


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

Megan Berry said:


> Thanks Kellie!
> 
> I just feel so bad for several reasons.
> 1- she's only 10 months old for pete's sake!! Talk about rotten luck!
> ...


Don't beat yourself up over it. SH** happens. Heck..it could have happened right when you put them out there.

We have a dog yard where we put the dogs out. It is horse wire fence, but all along the bottom we wired chicken wire to it. We have caught a couple of snakes in the fence, but they haven't gotten into the yard all the way. There is some stuff that is smaller holes that the snakes can't get stuck in...but it was too much $$$ for the entire dog yard.


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

When dealing with snakes I always say shoot it first, then chop it to pieces, then burn the bastard(preferably in an old tyre)


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Kellie Wolverton said:


> Don't beat yourself up over it. SH** happens. Heck..it could have happened right when you put them out there.
> 
> We have a dog yard where we put the dogs out. It is horse wire fence, but all along the bottom we wired chicken wire to it. We have caught a couple of snakes in the fence, but they haven't gotten into the yard all the way. There is some stuff that is smaller holes that the snakes can't get stuck in...but it was too much $$$ for the entire dog yard.


we don't have a specific dog yard, just the yard that goes completely around our house. It's roughly a half acre, fenced with 4-1/2' livestock fencing. There used to be chicken wire all along the bottom, but it was to keep smaller dogs in the yard, back in the day. It never kept snakes out, the yard is just too big. 

I did call the ER vet today, he said there is no rush since her eye isn't protruding, or oozing or anything drastic, so I'll find out what's up next Thursday.


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Wow, Megan. I'm really surprised your vet isn't more concerned about the eye. Sounds like it already has an ulcer in it and with the cloudiness, is getting worse. Could have been caused by a scrap or scratch from a fang or the fact that when the eye swelled, the lid turned inside and scratched. In horses, we would be on top of that in a heartbeat. If I had some RX I would give to you. You might want to at least get some lubricant ointment to put in. You can get Terramycin at the feed store - but I would ask Marin first.

You might want to fence off a smaller run area for the dogs and put that bird aviary wire around the base or some netting. You don't want a repeat performance into this episode any time soon.

Several of the trainers do have rattlesnake avoidance classes where they charge around $80 to train them. My problem is they use ecollars to train this and with my mallie and his background, this wouldn't only hinder his attempt at getting near a snake but would probably back track any work I have done with him so far to get him as confident as he is.

Kellie - in the one pic, is the snake biting hotwire?


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Laney- 

the vet gave us some antibiotic salve to put in her eye, though its almost gone now. I really hope she doesn't lose that eye. 

Billy ia talking about doing some snake-breaking if we bring him a de-fanged snake, but I think we'll look for a Bull snake instead. I'm sure he'll have some ideas since you can't use the e-collar. I can ask him.


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## Jeanne McMillan (May 26, 2011)

That's terrible. I live in the South and we have copperheads/rattlesnakes here where I 2 live in the boonies. . Been fortunate so far having a pack of dogs and no bites but my retriever brought me a baby snake once. Since he was TDI certified he does the leave it command really well and mine are in a fence but if I weren't home he would revert to trying to retrieve it Im sure if a snake got inside the fence. Hope your babies are ok. would definetly get that eye checked out. There are eye specialist for dogs too, you may or may not know about. I live very close to a vet college that does alot of cutting edge surgeries and procedures is how I found out about the different kinds of specialist that exsist. Hope things are ok.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

A couple of things to know.
The snake vaccine to prevent problems from a snake bite is very snake specific.
As to the "defanging" a pit viper, new fangs are almost always ready to drop in for replacement. Occasionally a snake will have more then two simply because one was injured enough to trigger the new one ready to drop but the snake didn't loose the first one.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> A couple of things to know.
> The snake vaccine to prevent problems from a snake bite is very snake specific.
> As to the "defanging" a pit viper, new fangs are almost always ready to drop in for replacement. Occasionally a snake will have more then two simply because one was injured enough to trigger the new one ready to drop but the snake didn't loose the first one.


Absolutely right on both points. I think the local snakeproofing guy uses a rattler in a box and/or duct tapes the mouth shut. I definitely don't recommend attempting to pick up and handle a rattlesnake if you don't know how though. I have no idea if using a different snake the dogs would generalise to rattlers too - maybe you could also use shed skin or a roadkill, or old scented bedding from a captive rattlesnake?


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Why don't people just use non-veomous species to train dogs? Since defanging can cause infection to the snakes mouth and kill it. Plus the snake still has its venom glands when its defanged. 


Check out the hands of this dude who handles venomous snakes...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isX9n27MDOo


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Completely right about the teeth growing back, which is why I'm considering using a bull snake. They're just a lot harder to find!

The problem with using skins or a dead snake is that because they're dead, they begin to smell differently to the dog (decomp) so all it would do is teach them to avoid dead snakes, lol.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Megan Berry said:


> The problem with using skins or a dead snake is that because they're dead, they begin to smell differently to the dog (decomp) so all it would do is teach them to avoid dead snakes, lol.


OK, but using a bull snake will teach them to avoid rattlesnakes too?? Honestly I've no idea how this works for the dog, so just throwing out ideas.  A shed skin will fool a male colubrid into breeding with a different species female, which they normaly refuse to do, so it must smell enough like the real deal... If I had a choice I'd probably use live rattlesnake (safely).

Go to a professional who's done it before.


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

The bull snakes have a 'mimic rattle' that is close enough to a real rattlesnake. If they avoid snakes in general, I'll be happy! My other two mutts had enough common sense to avoid the snakes all together.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Anna Kasho said:


> OK, but using a bull snake will teach them to avoid rattlesnakes too?? Honestly I've no idea how this works for the dog, so just throwing out ideas.  A shed skin will fool a male colubrid into breeding with a different species female, which they normaly refuse to do, so it must smell enough like the real deal... If I had a choice I'd probably use live rattlesnake (safely).
> 
> Go to a professional who's done it before.


colubrid is a "family" of snakes, including at least 1/2 of all snake species...not a species itself......which species are you referring to? just curious...as I used to breed snakes...


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> colubrid is a "family" of snakes, including at least 1/2 of all snake species...not a species itself......which species are you referring to? just curious...as I used to breed snakes...


I am talking about the novelty colubrid hybrids - king x corn, corn x milk, etc. Different genus, different species crosses, there are a ton of them out there now, several generations of crosses. Often a freshly shed skin of an appropriate genus/species female is used to trick a male into breeding a different genus/species female.

For example a male corn getting all hot and bothered over a fresh shed off a female corn, then given a female calking before he can think things over and change his mind... :lol:

But we're getting way off the subject.


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## Michele Moore (Mar 27, 2006)

JJ Belcher in Tucson does snake aversion training and he owns and competes with malinois so he can probably tailor it to a working dog. He has access to rattlesnakes who have had their venom sacs removed. He is in Tucson but would probably come up to Phoenix if there was a group of people who wanted to do it. 
http://www.sublimek9.com/snakeavoidance.html


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Anna Kasho said:


> I am talking about the novelty colubrid hybrids - king x corn, corn x milk, etc. Different genus, different species crosses, there are a ton of them out there now, several generations of crosses. Often a freshly shed skin of an appropriate genus/species female is used to trick a male into breeding a different genus/species female.
> 
> For example a male corn getting all hot and bothered over a fresh shed off a female corn, then given a female calking before he can think things over and change his mind... :lol:
> 
> But we're getting way off the subject.


have seen the hybrids...I was into big constrictors...they are crossing pythons now too.. was just curious....


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Just wanted to update-

I took Bolide to the vet yesterday. vet thinks she IS blind in that eye, but the sight shoukd return. go back wed, for a follow up.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

That's good! No permenent damage is great news, fingers crossed hoping all goes well for your pup!


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Megan, did he/she say that she had developed an ulcer causing the cloudiness over the eye which in turn is causing the blindness? Did he prescribe a special type of drops to be put in her eyes and did he recommend keeping her out of direct sunlight with that eye? I hope she gets better. I know with pink eye in livestock, t can get really bad if left untreated, but once you determine that is what it is and use the correct medication the growth over the eye disappears and vision is restored.


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

I want to say she called it an edema? But I could have the wrong word there... She gave me some steroid drops to put in 2x a day, and we have to follow up next wednesday. They did more bloodwork to check her valley fever too, so I should get an update on it soon.


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Well the rattlesnake incident has had a not so happy ending for Bolide. 

When her eye didn't clear up, but got worse, the vet referred me to an animal eye specialist. She did some tests, and did an eye pressure reading. Normal eye pressure is between 14-18, and the retina and optical nerve will sustain permenant damage and blindness if a pressure of 40 is present for more than a few hours. Bolide's eye pressure was 84!!! So basically, her eye is ruined, and has been causing her migraine-level pain, and she needs to have it removed.

We went in for pre-op blood screens today, and I take her in Monday morning for her eye removal surgery.

I have to say, I am just heartbroken over this!!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

That sucks....hope all goes well with it...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I have a one eyed JRT and at 15 he can still catch a rabbit or squirrel. 
Your dog will be fine! :wink:


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

Thanks for the encouragement Bob! 

My trainer seems positive as well. He said there's really no reason she can't still compete/title. With the depth perception gone her targeting may be off, but she's so young she might recover almost to the point of a dog that was born with only one eye. At least that's my theory!

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any one-eyed dogs that titled? I train for French Ring, but I'm curious to see examples of other dogs, even if it was Schutzhund or Mondio.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Dogs don't seem to look at a loss of limb, etc the same as people do. There are a gazillion three legged dogs out there that never skip a beat.....:-k ...well, skip may not be the correct term to use here. :-o


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

i dont know what sport you compete in as you said you were competing with the mali whom took the snake bite. Well a freind of mines dog went blind early in his life in one eye, and he was able to go to ring 3 many times over, so the vision in one eye shouldnt affect your goals. dogs adapt to things alot better then us humans

frankie


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

yes a freind of mine dog lost vision in one eye and was able to achieve ring 3, who do you train with in az ???


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

also btw just like your dog the the dog was born with vision in both eyes and lost vision in one i forget the exact age he lost it maybe 3 years old i dont recall but non the less it didn not affect his work on bit..

frankie


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

I train for french ring, though with all of the vet visits there hasn't been much actual training going on for the past few weeks! I train with Billy Rayas (AZ Bite Club)


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## FRANKIE COWEN (Jun 3, 2008)

I only asked whom u trained with in az, cause one of the other trainers in az . cause like me traineed with and decoyed this dog many many times this dog who lost vission and the dog was still a superb dog and had no issues with his vision misfortune.. my point is dogs can do alot more then we think 

frankie cown


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

An update for those interested:

Bolide is out of surgery and all went well, so I get to pick her up tomorrow afternoon.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

very good...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sounds good!


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

Question' I have never did any snake training with my doberman .I also will not say she couldn't get hit but!She scents a snake the minute she goes outside in to the yard and she is very,very leary and carefull around them.She will let u know where they are but stays @ a distance with weight back on her hind legs ready to retreat.She had to be born with it.are yall telling me most of these dogs don't have a natural fear of snakes.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

jim kirkendall said:


> Question' I have never did any snake training with my doberman .I also will not say she couldn't get hit but!She scents a snake the minute she goes outside in to the yard and she is very,very leary and carefull around them.She will let u know where they are but stays @ a distance with weight back on her hind legs ready to retreat.She had to be born with it.are yall telling me most of these dogs don't have a natural fear of snakes.


what other things do you think a dog has a natural born fear of?


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

I don't know if it's that some dogs have an instinct to stay away, or if it goes back to 'nerve and drive'. My aussie and husky are just pets and are frankly, chicken sh!ts sometimes. Ball drive yes, anything else... not so much. Now the malinois girls are very drivey, challenge-anything, typical malinois. They didn't know what the snake was so they played with it. 

That is my theory anyhow. I could be wrong. I usually am!


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Thats quite a surgery there I was looking at the picture.


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

It looks pretty bad, but she's taking it all in stride! She has to wear the cone until she gets her stitches out on the 30th. I feel for her, she's running into everything with that stupid cone on. I wish she didn't have to wear it, but she tries to scratch at the stitches. The vet said the surgery ifself went well with no issues at all, and she was a total sweetie both before and after. 

She kept nipping my hands this morning trying to get me to play, so she must be feeling better!


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Poor little Frankendoggy. Hope she heals up quickly.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Ahhh, "The Cone of Shame." Sometimes I think that's the worst part of the injury (in the dog's mind).


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Other than the shock of seeing her shaved and stitched, I thought they did a good job, the surgery looks neat and even. But for a little bit of luck, that could have been my dog... They really do not agonize over the loss as people would. It's the way things are, and make do with what they have, lol. You might be surprised how well she adapts to it. Hope she's back to her old self in no time.


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## CJ Neubert (Sep 7, 2009)

so sorry to hear your dog got bit. Thank you for posting about it. Your experience made up my mind for me and Claus went to snake avoidance training with natural solutions at least I feel our odds are a little better now.

http://www.snakeaversion.com


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