# Defense of Handler Foundation (food)



## Jojo Bautista (Mar 7, 2010)

Since the only RINGSPORT club in the PHILIPPINES is in MANILA and i live in a separate island, CEBU, I watch a lot of videos on Youtube and this is how i interpreted one of BART BELLON's videos when he explained about HANDLER DEFENSE using food.....

http://www.cebudogtrainer.com/post/44524694251/this-is-not-a-focus-heeling-video-i-took-this


Hope someone can give me ideas if im doing this right before proceeding.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Dude that is cool!

In answer to your question, that depends on what you want to achieve, what is the desired learning objective?

Handler defence is a pretty open objective.

Also do you have a link to the original bart bellon vid? I love his stuff and havn't seen this one I think.


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## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

Matt Vandart said:


> Dude that is cool!
> 
> In answer to your question, that depends on what you want to achieve, what is the desired learning objective?
> 
> ...


I think he means he is using it to teach the dog the "Defense of Handler" exercise, and position as taught for ringsport, according to the header on his video. 

In this case, he is teaching the position first using food, instead of a decoy.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Ah I understand.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Very nice! The only thing I'd change is make sure her shoulders are in contact with your legs before marking the behavior. She's a little far out when you're sending her for her food. Overall, she's looking good!


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## Jojo Bautista (Mar 7, 2010)

Jason Davis said:


> Very nice! The only thing I'd change is make sure her shoulders are in contact with your legs before marking the behavior. She's a little far out when you're sending her for her food. Overall, she's looking good!


great observation! i didnt realize shes far out until i watched it again... tnx


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

JoJo

Is this the Bellon video you're talking about?
http://vimeo.com/17097688
The only problem I see in your video is the backwards heeling between the legs. I like my dog to maintain contact with the outside of my legs for the DOH. Between the legs is for escorts only.


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Jojo Bautista said:


> Since the only RINGSPORT club in the PHILIPPINES is in MANILA and i live in a separate island, CEBU, I watch a lot of videos on Youtube and this is how i interpreted one of BART BELLON's videos when he explained about HANDLER DEFENSE using food.....
> 
> http://www.cebudogtrainer.com/post/44524694251/this-is-not-a-focus-heeling-video-i-took-this
> 
> ...


Your dog is not allowed to impede your movement, so the dog can not walk backwards between your legs. 

I would have very clear criteria on what you want and what your are rewarding. Do you want your dog in a heel position? If so insist on the correct heel position. The dog varies between should to hip with you. Consistency is the best dog trainer. Be clear with your expectations. 

Make your foundation impeccably strong and as close to perfect as you can. Perfect practice makes perfect. ;-)

I would not use a between the legs escort again either.


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## Jojo Bautista (Mar 7, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> JoJo
> 
> Is this the Bellon video you're talking about?
> http://vimeo.com/17097688
> The only problem I see in your video is the backwards heeling between the legs. I like my dog to maintain contact with the outside of my legs for the DOH. Between the legs is for escorts only.


i couldnt find the video, the uploader must have removed it but that video has the same idea.


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## Jojo Bautista (Mar 7, 2010)

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Your dog is not allowed to impede your movement, so the dog can not walk backwards between your legs.
> 
> I would have very clear criteria on what you want and what your are rewarding. Do you want your dog in a heel position? If so insist on the correct heel position. The dog varies between should to hip with you. Consistency is the best dog trainer. Be clear with your expectations.
> 
> ...


tamara

what is the disadvantage of using between the legs during the escort?

tnx for the suggestions


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## Jojo Bautista (Mar 7, 2010)

ill be doing another video basing from your suggestions. i will drop the inbetween Backwards heeling.

tnx guys


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Jojo Bautista said:


> tamara
> 
> what is the disadvantage of using between the legs during the escort?
> 
> tnx for the suggestions


The decoys can easily escape a dog that escorts like that. 

http://youtu.be/Ql8OYLZw7dY

The above link is jean marc alan showing me why it is not a good escort position.


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Here is another vid of the same dog and jean marc. He is showing me how the dog reacts better to an escape. My dog also is more obedient to the position rather than the escape itself so he gets sticky. 

http://youtu.be/qMuY4fizIwo


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## susan jones (Oct 15, 2008)

Young lady......what did Vinny used to say about......Doing RingSport in FLIPFLOPS!!!! LOL!!!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

susan jones said:


> Young lady......what did Vinny used to say about......Doing RingSport in FLIPFLOPS!!!! LOL!!!


hey those might be CROCS


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Your dog is not allowed to impede your movement, so the dog can not walk backwards between your legs.
> 
> I would have very clear criteria on what you want and what your are rewarding. Do you want your dog in a heel position? If so insist on the correct heel position. The dog varies between should to hip with you. Consistency is the best dog trainer. Be clear with your expectations.
> 
> ...



I thought he was having the dog go between his legs for a teaching tool to keep the dog straight going backwards. I didn't think that was the finished product. My bad.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Tamara McIntosh said:


> The decoys can easily escape a dog that escorts like that.
> 
> http://youtu.be/Ql8OYLZw7dY
> 
> The above link is jean marc alan showing me why it is not a good escort position.


I'll have to disagree with you on the escort position. In between the legs is a great position to have the dog, when its done correctly. The training on this dog, and the lack of vigilance on this dog, is the problem, not the positioning. This dog is chasing legs instead of taking the pivot. He's also half asleep. Dogs that are super vigilant, I will always put between the legs and teach it properly. Dogs that fall asleep, I keep on the outside because they seem to stay more engaged by watching the decoy.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Here is another vid of the same dog and jean marc. He is showing me how the dog reacts better to an escape. My dog also is more obedient to the position rather than the escape itself so he gets sticky.
> 
> http://youtu.be/qMuY4fizIwo


Again, not a problem with the position, problem is the dog. Decoy was still getting 1-2 meters on each escape, and he wasn't even going fast. Don't mean to pick this apart, but I don't want Jojo getting false information because of your experience with your dog. A vigilant dog, trained properly between the legs, makes it tough for the decoys to get meters. In between the legs is a great position for an escort.


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Jason Davis said:


> Again, not a problem with the position, problem is the dog. Decoy was still getting 1-2 meters on each escape, and he wasn't even going fast. Don't mean to pick this apart, but I don't want Jojo getting false information because of your experience with your dog. A vigilant dog, trained properly between the legs, makes it tough for the decoys to get meters. In between the legs is a great position for an escort.


Fair enough, but seeing as this person does not have access to a club or training of the calibre you offer do you think it is realistic to tell him to train as such?

Part of the reason the dog is "alseep" is because he is more concern with position than watching for the escape and i think that is the downfall of the position, especially when trained by novice handlers, such as i. I have seen other dogs where the decoy could haul ass and run, and it wouldn't trigger a bite the dog would just run faster with the decoy. To get a dog to worry about position and vigilance between the legs take a fair bit more of experienceand consistancy. If you do not have access to an experienced decoy on a consistant basis i do not think it is a viable option. 

Altho i will say my dog was not nearly as dirty in the between the legs escort. 

Wasn't showing the highlight reel from the coupe of france just happened to have a clip of my own lowly dog and the difference in one session.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I need to start ring escort training with Arya soon 
I think I'll go with the nose poke, where the dog alternates between butt poke and crotch poke depending which way the decoy is moving. Opinions?


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I need to start ring escort training with Arya soon
> I think I'll go with the nose poke, where the dog alternates between butt poke and crotch poke depending which way the decoy is moving. Opinions?


It ain't all it's cut out to be thomas. Lol


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## Jojo Bautista (Mar 7, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I need to start ring escort training with Arya soon
> I think I'll go with the nose poke, where the dog alternates between butt poke and crotch poke depending which way the decoy is moving. Opinions?


Have you seen this video from Jimmy Vanhove?

http://youtu.be/oxcvICbWQhg

Atb


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jojo Bautista said:


> Have you seen this video from Jimmy Vanhove?
> 
> http://youtu.be/oxcvICbWQhg
> 
> Atb


That's the style escort I want to start teaching Arya.
I was at that seminar (one day of it at least) in Colorado but I hadn't seen that video.

FYI The ruins in the background are the remains of the Castle Wood canyon dam that burst in August of 1933 sending a wall of water all the way to downtown Denver. In fact the Rocky Mountain Mondio Training field used to be under water.
Back to dog training


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

Here's an awesome video of a guard. At about :44 they start bitework, you can see how vigilant the dog is. Escorting from between the legs is hard to get away from if the dog is paying attention. It requires a pretty experienced decoy to do it and teach it. There are some pretty cool vids out that show an experience decoy trying to get away from the dog by straddling a tunnel, a mini saw horse, a garden chair, and other stuff. Each time the dog picks a side and waits for the decoy to make a run for the opposite side of the object. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVd0gKUjzZE&list=UUN6zx6yPGS-bhnUCtNm8pGA&index=7

As an aside.... at the beginning that guy has some pretty big balls to work that dog like that. No collar, no e collar, no sleeve, no hidden sleeve, no suit. Awesome dog.....


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Awesome dog, retarded training. Especially the 1st part where the decoy doesn't even have a tug to feed the dog :-(


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

I agree. If you look at CPIs website they *only* do PPD. I suspect they'd do sport dogs or LE but they have carved themselves a niche and fill it nicely. Why sell a $20,000 dog to LE and be bother with certifications and such when aome will pay you $65,000 for a trained dog? That dog in the video (Jett) was sold as a PPD dog and what you're seeing is his 'sales' video. The vid they;d send to prospective buyers. I'm willing to bet that that dog was trained the same way we; with tugs and suits. You can't argue with the results. If you look their YouTube channel they have some pretty impressive dogs and training. The muzzle fight video (MMA) is pretty funny/corney but the Mali (Floran) in the vid is for sale right now..... for $65,000 #-o 

From their "info" page: "_We want the precision usually found in the sport of Schutzhund, but with functionality. We want the advanced control found in Ring Sports, but functional in everyday life. Of course we want viable protection like that found in the best of European K9 law enforcement. There too we want it with greater control and with the functionality of our Advanced Handler Protection™ exercises. And we want the dogs we work with to be as highly motivated as possible, but we don’t want that motivation to be dependent on toys and food as is common with many sport dogs._"


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