# Club Etiquette



## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Here is a scenerio for you guys.

Club training seems to have one character who's dog gets loose/interferes with other training more frequently than it should. It just happened to me again today while Havok was having his second protection session. It happened last year while I was doing OB with my AB Lasher. Same guy same dog. Dog decided to try and body slam my AB and was met with 100# of muscle standing his ground.

This fellow is great and has a nice young GSD but he leaves him in long downs when he is not watching, doesn't use his leash as much as I think he should and is what I consider careless. I almost think he is showing off his training. 

Today he had his dog drinking water (no leash) at his vehicle about 30 yards from me. I am on the field, turn Havok on and the helper starts agitating - Havok starts barking and the loose dog takes off running for our helper. I hear the yelling "Platz" many times so I grab Havok and real him in. Guy comes and gets his dog picks him up by the neck and drags him off the field. I wanted to grab the guy and kick him in the nuts..... It is not the dogs fault! 

A couple of us tried to explain the etiquette and single event learning and he started getting defensive. I told him I did not want to argue and walked away. I know that he doesn't know any better (even though he thinks he does). I am going to have a talk with the club about implementing some new rules for safety. 

Any thoughts?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I would say this is something the TD should address with him sounds like he needs to tighten things up a bit. When a dog is on the field training or by the car or cooling down the handler needs to be aware and in control things can get ugly fast JMO


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Let the TD handle it, that's what he get's the "big bucks" for. (yes, I'm being facitious, but not about who should handle it.) We have had a handler who was a little careless, our TD took care of it, talked to him, gave him a warning, and that was that. It was a shape up or ship out sort of warning, and it was enough.I don't know what your old rules are, but common sense dictates dogs are on a leash or in a crate when off the field. 

As far as the way the guy handles his dog, stay out of it, that's his business unless he asks for your help or unless the TD gets involved.

I would privately let the TD know you are pissed about it, not happy at all since it was totally avoidable by the dufus.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Yep it only takes one to ruin the day. Say something to the TD or club president. If "adjustments" aren't made, find a club that is in tune with by-laws and law suits!!! Every member of our group has been good about watching their dog/s and using care to prevent what you are talking about. Accidents can and will happen, but this..............


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I agree with everyone that you need to let the club president, TD or property owner deal with it. 

I also think you did the right thing by walking away when the person started to get defensive and not arguing as nothing will get accomplished that way. You always get more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. 

Being a doofus myself I've joined up a new club and while my dog is awesome off lead and under control other people don't know that. So I was off the field where the dogs go to relieve themselves and throwing the ball for her to knock a turd out of her.

I got it second even 3rd hand from not the property owner but from another senior member that my dog was in a 'on' lead area. That would've been ok but the person who 'ratted' me out made it clear that is was them that 'ratted' me out and not just coming up to me and saying "btw this is the deal" which would've been fine, but to go out of the way to make me look like a chump in front of other club members.  

That made it really high schoolish to me and I thought hard and long about canceling my club dues cheque and never returning over being put on the spot like that, added with the whining and assorted moaning over me and my dog under hushed voices. High School confidental at it's best. Me I just want to train my dog and helping others do the same ... not interested in the other B.S. in the least bit. 

Welcome to the club .. A$$HOLE!!! Ha ha!


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## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm a new Sch club member and was recently "spoken to" about how i was handling my dog on the practice field.

My dog is very well-mannered and mild but they were upset because i was using the whole field when i was proofing the long down. They were right - i didn't realize that other people wanted to use that "space." So i said that from now on, when doing stationary exercises i would just use one quadrant of the field.

It was simply ignorance on my part and it's better to have someone discuss it with you than just have them pout about it. It was resolved and i think they were appreciative of my non-defensive attitude.

They also thought i was letting my dog get too close to other dogs that were aggressive. I thought the dog was just excited, not aggressive. Aggressive dogs lunge! But no biggie - i'll just make a wider circle when i'm near those dogs.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

And I think it boils down to JUST that in most cases, folks just not knowing. So they talk with you and no hard feelings are had and life goes on.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Thanks gang. I am a founding member and will not be leaving our club I can assure you. I sent a private note to our TD last night. 

Julie


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Geoff, it may or may not be the case (probably not, since there's other high school stuff going on) but some people have a really hard time with any type of "confrontation." Maybe they felt they didn't have any authority to enforce the rules. Again, probably not in this case!

I think sometimes rules are exasperating but just like with dogs, if there's clearcut rules, life goes on easier. I have no problem telling anybody to keep their dog on leash when they're supposed to. My attitude is YOUR dog may be totally under control off leash, but monkey see, monkey do. And it's just not fair to have exceptions. We try to hand out the rules to new visitors so they know from the beginning what's going on. 

In the case of the OP, I would have something in writing that deals with that type of scenario, whether it's a probationary period for x number of screwups or zero tolerance, anything happens and you go back on leash for x length of time or whatever. So hard to argue when something's in black and white.

Laura


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Geoff, it may or may not be the case (probably not, since there's other high school stuff going on) but some people have a really hard time with any type of "confrontation." Maybe they felt they didn't have any authority to enforce the rules. Again, probably not in this case!


I really don't know what is confrontational about telling a new member that this is an on lead area and that you should keep your dog on a line for yours and other dogs safety. I would've said thanks and appreciated the heads up.

But it was a case of totally 'passive aggressive' they let me know in a round about way that it was them who was displeased and went out of the way to make sure others knew ... I'm no Socialologist PHd, but it didn't take a PHd to figure out the social fabric about 'who' runs the show in spite of what the land owner has to say. Good for them if that what makes them feel happy and self important. =D> I won't let my foul up happen again. But like an elephant that never forgets, I won't soon forget how that message was delivered. 

It just really irked me at the time .. and it takes a lot to irk me. I keep saying it isn't about me after all, really its all about the dogs and will ignore any politics from here on in.


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## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

Geoff,
Just remember your there for your dog, by the way glad you didn't quit!
Mike


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Mike Di Rago said:


> Geoff,
> Just remember your there for your dog, by the way glad you didn't quit!
> Mike


No no won't ever stop working with the Quebec crew it was a different club there is no la la la pouf pouf politics like that there in Brossard Mike .. John will have none of it. They'll have to pry the leash from dead hands (to plagiarize a famous quote) before I stop working with that crew.

I'm up there all this upcoming weekend as we have to finalize preparations for the NARA Empire Ringsport Trial in NY the 16-17th. Swing by after 11 am if you can, OB should be done by then so you can get a feel of what we do for our protection routines.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

I think if the Pres or TD handles it as an ‘we all” as opposed to “you” it will go overly fairly smoothly……………..just a guess lol. Explain that it is common courtesy to all members and their dogs to keep our own dogs under control and/ or leashed at all times. That every member has the right to feel safe and have their dogs worked in a safe environment. All paying members have the right to be able to train without interference. 
I was in a club where we had a ‘drinker’ show up with a VERY dog aggressive dog that she could not handle…………..not fun………. And NOT RIGHT esp when your own dog is under control and leashed or it is your turn to be on the field. Im sure they would be the first to complain if the tables were turned. 
t


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> That made it really high schoolish to me and I thought hard and long about canceling my club dues cheque and never returning over being put on the spot like that, added with the whining and assorted moaning over me and my dog under hushed voices. High School confidental at it's best. Me I just want to train my dog and helping others do the same ... not interested in the other B.S. in the least bit.
> 
> Welcome to the club .. A$$HOLE!!! Ha ha!


Yeah, that's some high school BS for sure! Seems like a lot of wagging tongues over nothing. Guess they had nothing better to talk about.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> I'm up there all this upcoming weekend as we have to finalize preparations for the NARA Empire Ringsport Trial in NY the 16-17th.


I live within reasonable driving distance and was planning to drive over to see this trial. Then I remembered that I am going to be in Texas that weekend :-( 

I'm very sorry to be missing it!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Yeah, that's some high school BS for sure! Seems like a lot of wagging tongues over nothing. Guess they had nothing better to talk about.


Though they had more to talk about after seeing my little bitch's obedience routine and her obedience during the routines with the decoy during bite-work the next day on the field. "I guess the new a$$hole is ok after all" after seeing all the hard work I have put into her. Things are funny like that .. The proof is always in the puddin' momma used to tell me. :-#


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> I live within reasonable driving distance and was planning to drive over to see this trial. Then I remembered that I am going to be in Texas that weekend :-(
> 
> I'm very sorry to be missing it!


Bummer ... Would've been nice to meet you. There is 4 of us going down. We will have 2 dogs in Level 3, 1 in Level 2 and my dog doing her 2nd leg of level 1. Looking forward to competing under Judge Ricci from France.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

tracey delin said:


> I was in a club where we had a ‘drinker’ show up with a VERY dog aggressive dog that she could not handle…………..not fun………. And NOT RIGHT esp when your own dog is under control and leashed or it is your turn to be on the field. Im sure they would be the first to complain if the tables were turned.
> t


You say club which means they were organised with bylaws and such? I'm a bit surprised that a club would allow someone who isn't able to handle there dog in a safe manner on the field in the first place much less someone who may be a little buzzed up.
I may be nieve I have belonged the the same club for over 16yrs and being competitive is priority so no drinking or geef during training.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

No one drinks anything but water or gatorade at our club. Yikes.... We don't even have beer after trials. Usually if we have a new handler one of the more experienced ones will help. We would not allow a person like you described into our club we are very choosey.

The guy I was referring to is actually a good trainer (a natural) has been at it for about a year now (we just added him as a full member). Doing a great job with his first SchH dog.

My TD emailed me back and agree'd. We will be having a discussion at training tomorrow.

I think as a rule we need to have dogs leashed or crated when protection training is going on *regardless of how well trainined any one dog is. The rules need to apply to everyone with out exception. 

No drama just consistancy. 

Julie


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

I think there are problem children in every club, we have a member who routinely lets her dog lunge and aggressively bark at dogs coming and going off the field. She also while waiting for her dogs turn in protection will let him stand just outside the fence barking his head off and disrupting the session happening on the field. We have also had many problems with her very disruptive children running up to dogs they dont know and other things. The biggest problem is she is possibly the most defensive person I know, not to mention she is a a self proclaimed expert about everything. You can not tell her anything, she already knows. Oh and did I mention this is her first dog that she has done any training with and he is only 9 months, so as you can see she basically knows everything. So frustrating.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Greg Leavitt said:


> I think there are problem children in every club, we have a member who routinely lets her dog lunge and aggressively bark at dogs coming and going off the field. She also while waiting for her dogs turn in protection will let him stand just outside the fence barking his head off and disrupting the session happening on the field. We have also had many problems with her very disruptive children running up to dogs they dont know and other things. The biggest problem is she is possibly the most defensive person I know, not to mention she is a a self proclaimed expert about everything. You can not tell her anything, she already knows. Oh and did I mention this is her first dog that she has done any training with and he is only 9 months, so as you can see she basically knows everything. So frustrating.


Why piss around with people like this if they don't fit within the club dynamics give her the boot. 
We got this new guy coming out testing this big old mastiff looking dog. Nice guy but he is by far the most unsavy buffoon of a dog owner I have ever seen come out completely clueless and out of touch.
This no shit a club member was on the field with him showing him how to hold the line and the dog for testing wile they were discussing what was going to happen his dog pissed on him and he stood there and did nothing didn't react nada WTF 
I have never had a problem taking someones money to have there dog tested but I asked the treasure to give it back this aint rite there is absolutely no way in hell this mofo is getting in this club. 
Not every one or every dog is cut out for this


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Club politics ?? Are you kidding me ? I have never heard such a thing. LOL


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Greg Leavitt said:


> I think there are problem children in every club, we have a member who routinely lets her dog lunge and aggressively bark at dogs coming and going off the field. She also while waiting for her dogs turn in protection will let him stand just outside the fence barking his head off and disrupting the session happening on the field. We have also had many problems with her very disruptive children running up to dogs they dont know and other things. The biggest problem is she is possibly the most defensive person I know, not to mention she is a a self proclaimed expert about everything. You can not tell her anything, she already knows. Oh and did I mention this is her first dog that she has done any training with and he is only 9 months, so as you can see she basically knows everything. So frustrating.


Let's not forget an opposite but equally irritating type. The permanently helpless clueless but the guys all think she's cute girl........ "how does this harness go on again?????.........waaaa my dog's too strong for me to hold..........waaa someone lay a track for my puppy (AGAIN) I just can't do it as good as you can you big strong man, you"................. bleck:roll: :roll: :roll:


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Lol…………some funny ‘stories’ for sure…..love the helpless one, but I must confess I like people to hold my dog for me sometimes too, it just honestly kills my back…….cant wait to get into control work.

Maybe I should clarify, and keep in mind this was my first ever club so we are going back double-digits here. No one has ever been allowed to drink at the club, but if you have ever met an alcoholic you know that they are very good at acting sober and the most you can do is have a ‘suspicion’. I cant say for certain, but I believe the last time she showed up to club was the day her dog got away from her and attacked my dog (bad move). I don’t know if she was just embarrassed or had a talkin to……….I was too green to care at the time lol.

t


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Alchoholics at training are great fun. Why exclude someone, that is wrong. LOL


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Yea Jeff, while a dog is on the field have them run across the field to your truck to get you a beer. Then turn dog loose. Now that would be fun to see. LOL LOL LOL


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

2 things to share. 

1. We have a couple of new members to our club. One of them smokes. Two of our other members also smoke, and have been members for many years. Not long after the new people started coming out, we started finding cigarette butts on the field - near the pole, in the long-down area, over by the picnic table where everyone congregates when not working their dog, etc. Instead of talking to the 'offender' and telling him to dispose of his butts rather than just throwing them on the ground, the TD banishes everyone who smokes from the field, telling them if they want to smoke, they will have to stay behind the tape that defines the border of the field. This kind of ticked off the current members, who have always disposed of their cigarette butts properly, and did not feel that they should be punished for something a 'newbie' was doing. Why the TD didn't just speak to the person privately I have no idea. 


2. I was practicing running the blind with Naccia one day a few weeks ago and the TD was waiting in the wings with his dog. I sent her around the blind and somehow or another the TD's dog got loose from him and both dogs ended up running into the blind at the same time! Needless to say, the helper was very busy for about 15 seconds! He ended up giving the sleeve to the TD's dog, since he had gotten there a split second before Naccia rounded the blind, and Naccia got the elbow. When it's the TD and his dog that screw up, what'dya do?! :lol:


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## Tammy McDowell (Dec 4, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Let's not forget an opposite but equally irritating type. The permanently helpless clueless but the guys all think she's cute girl........ "how does this harness go on again?????.........waaaa my dog's too strong for me to hold..........waaa someone lay a track for my puppy (AGAIN) I just can't do it as good as you can you big strong man, you"................. bleck:roll: :roll: :roll:


Dang! Guess I can't try this gig anymore! :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

We have a set of club rules/etiquette that we hand out to new members but inevitably mistakes will be made and must be pointed out to individuals from time to time.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Kristen if the TD's dog got loose by accident, if it's not a regular occurence why would you want to say anything? As far as the smokers go, tough titty said the kitty when the milk ran dry. They'll get over it, maybe even smoke a little less. Or maybe they could do the adult thing and ask the TD why he did what he did instead of telling the new smokers to comply with the old system of disposing the butts properly. Could be their smoke was really bothering the non-smokers.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Tammy McDowell said:


> We have a set of club rules/etiquette that we hand out to new members but inevitably mistakes will be made and must be pointed out to individuals from time to time.


We have a set of training rules too that are handed out to visitors and members. Mistakes do happen and we have had some pretty amusing instances but for the most part they were mistakes and not intentional. Yep, there are some folks that just can't play by the rules and jeopardize the safety of others or those who just thrive on causing conflict. That's when it's time to send in the TD or club President!


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Let's not forget an opposite but equally irritating type. The permanently helpless clueless but the guys all think she's cute girl........ "how does this harness go on again?????.........waaaa my dog's too strong for me to hold..........waaa someone lay a track for my puppy (AGAIN) I just can't do it as good as you can you big strong man, you"................. bleck:roll: :roll: :roll:


Where are these cute single schutzhund girls, I looked for one for a long time prior to meeting my wife, but couldnt find one. Where are they all hiding


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Greg Leavitt said:


> Where are these cute single schutzhund girls, I looked for one for a long time prior to meeting my wife, but couldnt find one. Where are they all hiding


 They are all in Sweden=P~ or Switzerland


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Greg Leavitt said:


> Where are these cute single schutzhund girls, I looked for one for a long time prior to meeting my wife, but couldnt find one. Where are they all hiding


I think they must be hiding out with all the missing cute boys.:lol:


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

todd pavlus said:


> They are all in Sweden=P~ or Switzerland


 Thats true when I was there a couple years ago they were out in droves. I also notices a large percentage in holland and Germany.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No wonder dog sports are bigger there. Look what we have. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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