# Training the out



## Doug Wright (Aug 7, 2010)

I have a 9 month old pup. He loves the bite pillow, but giving him to give it up after the bite seems almost impossible. any suggestions on this?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Doug Wright said:


> I have a 9 month old pup. He loves the bite pillow, but giving him to give it up after the bite seems almost impossible. any suggestions on this?


HI Doug,

I'm surprised no one has jumped on this yet?
Get Michael Ellis DVD Playing Tug with Your Dog
While you're waiting for the UPS truck.
When playing tug (3 handle pillow?) stop playing abruptly and totally immobilize the bite pillow. Wait for the dog to get bored/tired (may take a while) and let go on his own. As soon as he does mark it with a YES, jump back and let him strike the
pillow again and play tug. Rinse and repeat as many times as need


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Or, a second pillow you can pick up.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Or, a second pillow you can pick up.



Yes, but...... 
If the pup/dog is super possessive and views the tug as being more important then the game,you loose if you try the "swap this for this". 
I think the timing in the initial training almost dictates marking and reward with the one the dog has right in front of it. 
I think it would be hard to bring another tug into play with the first one in such close proximity. 
Once it understands, then I think a second tug "could" be brought into play because the dog is gradually expected to stay off the tug even with movement from you.
Initial training....... :-k I sure ain't that fast. :wink:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Doug Wright said:


> I have a 9 month old pup. He loves the bite pillow, but giving him to give it up after the bite seems almost impossible. any suggestions on this?


 Punch him in the groin <helper>...then the helper will give it up and you can play again!


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> HI Doug,
> 
> I'm surprised no one has jumped on this yet?
> Get Michael Ellis DVD Playing Tug with Your Dog
> ...


Yes, this is a good method. Freeze with the wedge close to your leg, you or the wedge doesn't move. No eye contact with the dog, it's just like time is frozen. First time may require a long wait.


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## Doug Wright (Aug 7, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried swapping for another tug, and this worked briefly, but then he preferred to stay with the first tug. I have also tried freezing. He tries to make his own game by tugging harder. This has worked, but it took about 25 minutes for him to release. I was hopeful that the second bite would gain a faster release, but it took about as long. An hour of bite work for two bites, seemed a little long. I will keep working at it. Thanks for the suggestions


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Basic work.....

your decoy/assistant on the signal to out forces the dog to grasp the tug/sleeve deeper in its mouth so that the dog cannot let go, You are giving the dog multi low to med corrections in rapid fire.

your next signal to the decoy is to release the pressure to hold the bite.

dada, out.

works on the reverse pressure and not the force to pull object away from dog.

most important is to reward this out with a second , third and forth bite

best of luck training

jc


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## Doug Wright (Aug 7, 2010)

Thanks the reverse pressure makes sense


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

the problem i foresee with freezing is you dont want to condition him to out on any freeze or any lack of movement?
I would pick the dogs front feet off the ground by his collar and hold him there until he lets go, when he does i said out as it fell, eventually he associated the two

if he is ultra possessive you may not be able to proof it until he gets older and you can lay on some compulsion


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

timing is very important and your helper needs to be 100% versed in knowing how to hold the dog into the bite via the second line attached to a wide flat collar.

your leash is attached to a correction collar that is correct for your dog.

typicaly all that u need is a choke. the actual corrections u give are not what outs the dog in training. so slam dunk corrections will not work. the aggro factor of multi corrections combined with the dog not being able to release the object.

each of the rapid fire corrections must be a nano sec before each correction a loud out, out, out etc.

in fact teaches the dog to not only out but spit the out so fast. Faster than a blink of an eye

jc


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

The two Jerry's think alike.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Mike Lauer said:


> the problem i foresee with freezing is you dont want to condition him to out on any freeze or any lack of movement?
> I would pick the dogs front feet off the ground by his collar and hold him there until he lets go, when he does i said out as it fell, eventually he associated the two
> 
> if he is ultra possessive you may not be able to proof it until he gets older and you can lay on some compulsion


If this works for you, cool. The issue I run into with this method is that the choke off builds grip and possessiveness. We are then pairing the “out” command with the grip/possessiveness which in my experience leads to conflict. JMO


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Matthew Grubb said:


> If this works for you, cool. The issue I run into with this method is that the choke off builds grip and possessiveness. We are then pairing the “out” command with the grip/possessiveness which in my experience leads to conflict. JMO


we use this when we want to get equipment without "outing" the dog..and still encourage him to want to bite...I have seen nothing but conflict when pairing this technique with the OUT when watching it done...I admit I have lost my head a time or two and done it...creating more conflict LOL


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

There are many ways to do this. First I would ask what the dog is in training for, for example, if he is in training for SchH I would first teach the dog to guard. I mean really guard, not just bark at the decoy, but really guard the decoy. When the dog learns that he has power and control over the decoy in the guard, then he will really enjoy the guarding behavior. Then we make a switch from biting (something the dog really enjoys), to guarding (something he also has learned to enjoy) and thus he is much more willing to out because he knows that he can do something else that he enjoys by guarding.


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