# Learning from Multiple Trainers



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Had a discussion the other day that kind of, well no, it actually pissed me off. So, I want to ask for opinions and see if I am way off in my way of thinking. 

I am fairly new to this.....I have sought out the things I need and am moving forward rapidly. I started my business and have been successful thus far, and have also had to wash a few dogs as well as wash my hands of a couple handlers. 

I am going to Randy Hare in April....the three week trainer/instructor course. 

When I mentioned this, in front of another trainer, I got told that I am all over the board and since I cannot pick one trainer and stick with them, then I will basically not be successful. I, ME, want to be a trainer/instructor so I feel that I need to learn ALL that I can in order to be effective with different dogs as well as handlers. 

Now, I am one that encourages people to seek out training and use the method that works for their dog. I do not look at it as having a following of people that only believes in one method. 

I mean, what if that method does not work for that dog? If you have nothing in your toolbox to try next, then maybe we wash a dog that could have excelled using another method or maybe, just maybe a combination or modification of both. 

I do not like being told that "I can't", "I won't" or "I'm stupid to think", it just makes me fight all that much harder to prove that knowing different trainers and utilizing different methods just makes me that much more knowledgeable if shit starts to unrave and I can step in and try a few things and more than likely find something that works. 

So, now that I am done venting....my question surfaces....

Am I stupid to attend and learn from other well-known and proven trainers even if the methods differ?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> Am I stupid to attend and learn from other well-known and proven trainers even if the methods differ?


No....


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> Am I stupid to attend and learn from other well-known and proven trainers even if the methods differ?


of course not. It blows my mind that some ppl still think that way. 

Julie


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> When I mentioned this, in front of another trainer, I got told that I am all over the board and since I cannot pick one trainer and stick with them, then I will basically not be successful.


This person is wrong. You are right.



> Am I stupid to attend and learn from other well-known and proven trainers even if the methods differ?


No, you're not stupid. The person you mentioned above is. 

Overall, I think it is important for newbies to find a great mentor to learn from and stick with for a while, while keeping an open mind about other techniques. There is a danger of being a newbie and not having the knowledge to separate crap from good training. However, you do not fit in that category!


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Hey - is this another way of rubbing in the whole Randy Hare thing again?????  

He'll be up here next week. I won't be able to attend the seminar. Darn husband doing his EMT re-cert and nobody to babysit. Grrrrr...


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

We (our training group) just got fired from a Trainer for <ahem> utilizing other trainers and decoys in our program. 

I just don't get the audacity and close mindedness of some people. I mean where do they ****ing get off thinking that they are the be all and end all of the dog training world? 

There is so much to learn out there you'd be silly not to keep moving forward with new people (and old people too) and taking from it everything what you can. 

BTW up yours Larry!!!


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Carol Boche said:


> So, now that I am done venting....my question surfaces....
> 
> Am I stupid to attend and learn from other well-known and proven trainers even if the methods differ?


I would have to say that most well known or proven trainers didn't get that way by just listening to the first person that told them " this is how you have to do it "


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I will always think of this trainer as one of my mentors, the things I have learned from them are excellent and I am very appreciative of that fact, that is for sure. I just think it is selfish of them to tell me that I won't be successful if I do not pick one thing and stick with it. 

I have learned SO MUCH with all of the events I have attended and I am VERY thankful for that.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> So, now that I am done venting....my question surfaces....
> 
> Am I stupid to attend and learn from other well-known and proven trainers even if the methods differ?


No way. In fact, it will help you develop your own style. Those trainers you hold in high esteem did not just begin training the way they do by osmosis. they learned from others. In time and with experience, they added their own touches. There really isn't anything that is lightening strike new in this business.

A friend once told me; learning from other trainers is like collecting a bunch of keys. You may have an enourmous key ring, yet use only a few. There may come the day however, when that one key is the one you need. In my career I've seen trainers come and go. I've learned from most all of them. Granted, sometimes I learned that is NOT the way to do it, but it's learning none-the-less. I like to think I'm a unique trainer, but in truth, I just have developed a few idiosyncracies and have added it to all those that went before me.

Learn what you can. You'll know what useful and what isn't and from that you'll develop the style you are most comfortable with. If you are honest with yourself, it will be the style that is most successful for YOU.

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If you have a proven way of training already and it is showing success on multiple dogs then I say go and see different training methods.

If you do not have a solid basic plan that will take the dog from a-z, then yes, going all over the place is silly.

I see this a lot with all the people being brought in to do seminars for Mondio, each one has some different way, and it really is kinda messy. There is no solid basic plan though either.

So, to review, Solid plan, then go all over to add cool shit.

No Solid plan, then stay at home and get a Solid plan.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Ditto what they all said. That mentality frosts me too and we see it far too often at schutzhund clubs! A successful trainer or instructor has to have an open mind and posses a wide variety of skill sets for the diverse personalities of the dogs and people they will have parnerships with. Learn as much as you can when you can and I wish you much success.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Yes, I have success with multiple dogs, they are nationally certified. This is why I am starting to venture out.....

I totally agree with you Jeff, and I should have put that in my original post. Thanks for mentioning it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Now for the kicker, a solid base, but with what method ?? LOL


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> Am I stupid to attend and learn from other well-known and proven trainers even if the methods differ?


the short answer (without reading any more than your initial post) is: NO, you're NOT. and that has nothing to do with my personal experience/knowledge of you. it's just common sense.


so go out and learn as much as you can, then stop by and we'll play


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

That is one of the things that erks me about former TD's that I've trained under. Well I shure do appriciate their time and effort, it really sucks when they get all "This is how it's done here", "No you shouldn't go to that seminar, you will come back and just want to change everything", While I'm sure some people can be so influenced by seminars that "They want to change everything", I'm not so shure it's not about ego, god forbid somelse has a idea to try to change a problem area that may work.](*,)


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I agree with being very experienced at having 1st having a basic method whatever it is then adding to it as you see fit. I think that goes for learning most skills that you never finish learning. I got to think you are certainly experienced enough to go learn a slightly different view. I’m still trying to learn my basic technique (lets just freaking keep it at that!). Carol when you go to something like this I would think you would bring one or more of your personal dogs (I might be wrong). My question is do these people make you completely change you and your dogs style? For example if the dog has spent its life on a pinch and this guy want you to use only a shock is that the way it goes if you want to stay?


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

To echo what others have already said, you are dong the right thing. I'm fairly new to this stuff myself but one thing that I've learned is that every trainer is different. They all can't be right and they all can't be wrong. The more you learn from several different people, the more you will know what will work for the particular dog you're training at the time. DFrost, I agree 100% with your post.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Chris, 

I do take my personal dogs. And I have not changed much with them....I have learned things that I am doing incorrectly which was affecting the dog, which from what I was told at the time were minor, but I did not change any of the dogs original training. 

I learn alot from the places I go, and I am not afraid to say that I will not change anything since I look at it as "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". To be honest, all most ALL of the trainers have been acceptant of that after they have seen my dogs work. A couple of suggestions and it has helped make me a better handler. 

I am really interested in taking a green, unstarted dog and trying Randy Hares method though. I would not do it with a dog I have already started with the way that I use. Which is why I have been tracking with Ajay but have been leaving odor detection work alone.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

When I was active during the 80s in AKC obedience I went to a gazillion seminars. 
Learn a little bit from everyone! Nobody gets it all right...for you and your dog!


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> If you have a proven way of training already and it is showing success on multiple dogs then I say go and see different training methods.
> 
> If you do not have a solid basic plan that will take the dog from a-z, then yes, going all over the place is silly.
> 
> ...


 
Every now and again...Jeff posts shear genuis. Sometimes I think me and you are more a like than we are different.

I was going to say the same thing. For myself, I could not build a training program going from one trainer to another. I would have been confused, and my tactics may work against themselves. I also think this would have created a training program based on "tricks" and not an ideaology. But now that I have decent knowledge of what I want to do and how I do it. I can go and take a look at other training programs and see what I can take from them.


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

Learn as much as you can! I promise, you will love the Randy Hare methods. It will blow you away. Good luck. O


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Now for the kicker, a solid base, but with what method ?? LOL


Ha ha yeah hence the floating from flower to flower like a drunken bee that a lot of new people do! Part of the journey that some people have to do until they get grounded and informed on what they want/think which way to follow. It 's human nature I guess.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Geoff. I understand that...some have to try all the flavors before settling on one. I think what I witness more is that most people think that they are going to miss something if they do not saturate themselves in every training method possible. I think thier is some value to keeping it simple. Or you teeter totter...You simply neve get better...your just mediocre at everything. Especially with something that can be as deep as dog training. Do you want to dig one hole really deep or a whole bunch of shallow holes? I think focus is important...But On the other extreme is the trainer whom claims it's So and So's way or it's crap...they are more in love with the person, than they are with the training. And the person becomes christ like and can do no wrong. This is just as stiffling. Faith and Doubt are both just as valuable


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I think it's a good idea to see, try and learn from other training methods. The old guy who I go to said training knowledge is like a big soup pot. You put it all in, and you take out pieces as you need to "eat" them. Even if it's something you don't like or might never use, you can still learn from it.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Boy can I relate! As one example, my TD nearly had a stroke (I could literally see the veins in his neck and forehead bulge out!) when I told him that I had started working on the retrieve with Naccia using the clicker. I told him I'd started practicing with the dumbbell with her and he said I didn't need to be messing with that just yet. I told him it was okay, it was all motivational with the clicker, and that's when the blood vessels started popping out. He told me something to the effect of 'you need to stop now,' and I questioned why - because I genuinely wanted to hear his reasoning - and got "Well, go ahead and do it then!" as a response. Of course, this is the man that pretty much poo-poos any and all types of positive/motivational training, so I should have known better, but I really did not expect that kind of response.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

When I have a handler going through school, I'm very particular about how the training is being conducted. I don't take kindly to; this is what we did at my other school or, I read that if you do........ etc. I do, however, once they have completed school, encourage them to explore other techniques etc. I do place a caveat on that encouragement. 1. Drug dog handlers will NOT train with psuedo. 2. You will always be evaluated, consistent with the established performance standards. I encourage them to train with handlers from other departments and units. Learn from it and grow. 

DFrost


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I agree with David's post and I would like to add this too. I'm not sayings that I defend TDs but, now here we go. If you, and all do or have paid a TD to help us with our dogs. His rep is also on the line. He wants you to do well in your sport or with your PSD. Agreed, take in all the knowledge you can but don't step on his toes. He has worked your dog and has a plan to get it to succeed. You and he have to be on the same page. Knowledge is a great thing but don't go adding to HIS plan, you will pi$$ him off and he may not keep you and your dog foremost in his training regiment. You may suggest things and that is fine. See what he has to say about your suggestions. Some TDs are more people friendly than others. Some are like Kristen said and others will listen to you. At any rate, what he desides should be your plan of attack.

Kind of got of base here but do get all the knowledge you can and use it when it's acceptable. Knowledge is great to have and no one can ever take it away from you. As we get older it kind of just leaves, don't know where it goes but no one took it.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jerry I agree 100%. This is also the reason I don't like dual/same type training. Training similar style with different trainers. One guy fixes and the other guy changes, one another guy adds too much and the next does something very wrong. Then the poor dog is left with a WTF look of frustration... 

Train one place and then if the Geoff flower is finer...buzzzzzz over!


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

HOWARD & JERRY are right on the money!!!!!!!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Knowledge is great to have and no one can ever take it away from you. As we get older it kind of just leaves, don't know where it goes but no one took it.


if you ever figure out where it goes, jerry, would you share??? please???


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> ... Knowledge is great to have and no one can ever take it away from you. As we get older it kind of just leaves, don't know where it goes but no one took it.


Jerry I don't know about that, I think the hair is is great to have and the first to go. :-k


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Too many people jump around without a base of knowledge. I just think that you have to find a club or whatever and go with it, until it either proves to go nowhere, or you have titled a dog all the way with that method.

It takes YEARS to get a method sometimes. I look at the seminars that I have been to in Mondio, and ****, sometimes it really pisses me off when I find some good training stuff that I could have used two years ago. Problem is, I do not feel like going back two years and starting it over with a completely different method.

A good example in my case is Mike Ellis. I really like Mike a lot, but some of his methods came about way late for me to go back and use them. Some of them didn't work the when I tried them. I have seen them work really nicely on other dogs, but Buko HAD to be different. LOL

All of his methods are good, well thought out stuff. Just bad timing for me to use some of them.

Neil Wallace had some really cool stuff, got it on tape, so my old ass cannot forget it : )

Hopping around from flower to flower is retarded. I have seen people that do this, and to me it is dog abuse. LOL


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