# OT: no more 20 year retirement for military.



## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

July 26, 2011
Stars and Stripes




A sweeping new plan to overhaul the Pentagon’s retirement system would give some benefits to all troops and phase out the 20-year cliff vesting system that has defined military careers for generations, the Military Times newspapers reported.

The plan calls for a corporate-style benefits program that would contribute money to troops’ retirement savings account rather than the promise of a future monthly pension, according to a new proposal from an influential Pentagon advisory board.



The move would save the Pentagon money -- at a time when it's being asked to cut at least $400 billion -- and benefit troops who leave with less than 20 years of service.





The yearly contributions might amount to about 16.5 percent of a member’s annual pay and would be deposited into a mandatory version of the Thrift Savings Plan, the military’s existing 401(k)-style account that now does not include government matching contributions, according to the Times.

Proponents said the plan would allow more flexibility for servicemembers, who could decide how they want to invest their retirement savings, and for the military, which would be allowed to offer higher contributions to troops who deploy frequently or take hardship assignments.

The Military Times has more on the proposed overhaul, including a summary of how servicemembers would be affected, depending on their length of service.


this is bs imo. being able to draw 50% of my base pay at 20 years and a day was very attractive when I joined even as a 17 y/o kid


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've been drawing almost 60% of my base when I retired, since 1988. It was a good deal then, and has paid off pretty good since then. Certainly better than my 401K has done over the past 20 years. 

dFrost


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## James Idi (Apr 19, 2009)

> this is bs imo. being able to draw 50% of my base pay at 20 years and a day was very attractive when I joined even as a 17 y/o kid


They don't care.

The entire military, active and reserves, makes up about 2.6 million folks.

As far as voters, that is NOTHING compared to DOUBLE DIGIT MILLIONS of voters currently on the dole via food stamps, medicare, medicaid, section 8 housing, etc...

Gotta take care of the crack hoors and their 6 children from 6 different "men" you know...


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Why is it that everything gets reformed in some manner except for congress retirement plans, healthcare plans, and raises? Congress loves the entitlement system but wants to destroy everyone elses. They get 50% raises while the military gets 1-4% and those sorry bastards don't do crap in a bipartisan manner, only do things to get reelected which isn't beneficial to this country. Cops and firemen will be next, probably sooner rather than later its just harder because of the unions.

The drain on our society is not the military veterans recieving a small pension for putting his/her life on the line. The drain on society is the person who can work but chooses to collect welfare and food stamps or the illegal immigrant who comes to the country and has 5 kids and drains our school budgets and welfare budgets without giving anything back. The veteran has given something to you and society so therefore has earned the pension


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I agree, total BS. They will have to draft as there will be no draw at all to join. I'm waiting for the POS's to not figure out the budget so my husband wont get paid at all.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

BS..........................................


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Thank you republicans. You never cease to amaze me with your greed, lack of caring, and cronyism.

Thank you democrats. You never cease to amaze me with your general lack of BALLS, and ability to f*ck up what the republicans forgot to destroy.

THIRD PARTY???!!!!


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Thank you republicans. You never cease to amaze me with your greed, lack of caring, and cronyism.
> 
> Thank you democrats. You never cease to amaze me with your general lack of BALLS, and ability to f*ck up what the republicans forgot to destroy.
> 
> THIRD PARTY???!!!!


If you want third parties to succeed you need to consider pushing for instant run off voting. People are not voting third party because they are voting against the republican (or democratic) candidate by voting for the least evil in their perception.

Instant run off voting allows you to vote for your third party candidate and throw their vote to the mailing candidate if they don't get enough votes to succeed.

-----------------

Please tell me they are only making that change to NEW enlistees and not these folks who have served an unprecedented number of tours of duty. Even our dads in WWII went ONE tour of duty, ran their missions, and then worked stateside. I know my dad had so many bombing runs they had to run, then he becaume a gunnery instructor for the duration. Nowadays so many are on their 5th, 6th etc tour of duty. What are we doing to these people?!?!?

Maybe if people don't get the retiree benefit they won't enlist and they will have to rethink things.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> Thank you republicans. You never cease to amaze me with your greed, lack of caring, and cronyism.
> 
> Thank you democrats. You never cease to amaze me with your general lack of BALLS, and ability to f*ck up what the republicans forgot to destroy.
> 
> THIRD PARTY???!!!!


First of all, this is plainly a political post...out of respect for the rules I will not debate this obviously biased and flawed post. The idea of it is proposed by a DOD panel, not republicans, or democrats. It is plainly obvious which party has consistently shown a desire to lower funding for our DOD throughout history...but we will not go there. 

I am curious though as to what would a third party candidate that you would vote for be like? I can think of some third party candidates I might vote for if they had a chance in hell to win.., but from your post, I doubt you would like any of them...probably would hate them actually..



> Please tell me they are only making that change to NEW enlistees and not these folks who have served an unprecedented number of tours of duty. Even our dads in WWII went ONE tour of duty, ran their missions, and then worked stateside. I know my dad had so many bombing runs they had to run, then he becaume a gunnery instructor for the duration. Nowadays so many are on their 5th, 6th etc tour of duty. What are we doing to these people?!?!?
> 
> Maybe if people don't get the retiree benefit they won't enlist and they will have to rethink things.


I would venture a guess that it would be only for new people, I dont think politically it could go any other way.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

If you want to discuss the possible changes to military retirement, keep the specific politics out of the discussion. I know that may not be the easiest thing to do. It is however, the only way to keep this thread open. 

DFrost


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Bummer.

Welcome to the world of 401k's, where bankers play roulette with your hard earned shekels. I'm exaggerating of course, but hopefully this does not come to pass. I'm sure there are many other ways for the pentagon to trim fat without screwing around with retirement packages.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

will this reform be for new people or people who are already serving?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Timothy Saunders said:


> will this reform be for new people or people who are already serving?


It is proposed by a DOD panel, in response to the President's ,and congresses call for DOD savings. It is a proposed thing, based on the fact that no such benefits are vested currently until 20 yrs, the proposal puts for something that could save money and benefit the shorter term people as well.

They are also kicking around a 30 yr retirement option.

It would not effect retirees, but would effect people in service now.

The president will get an annual pension of over 190,000, even if he is not re-elected...as well as past presidents..

...and congress is fully vested in 5 yrs.

The most recently disgracfully ousted congressman, Wu, stands to receive about a $1,000,000.00 for his time in the congress, in pension.

I have no military experience and do appreciate everything the military does. 

But our country is OUT OF MONEY... we are currently borrowing more than 40% of every dollar we spend. 

The spending is unsustainable, regardless of how you or I feel, or what how we stand on politics..and that is a fact.

Similar benefit packages have all but ruined the auto industry here, and have almost every city and state DEEPLY in debt...and the option is to look for bailouts from the federal government, or make CUTS...

On a Federal Level, the debt is about 46,000 per citizen regardless if they are paying taxes or not.....and increases almost $4,000,000,000.00 per DAY at the current rate...

Cuts are going to have to be made across the board, period...Unless everyone thinks it is ok to spend money now that will not be paid back when your kids are grown and have kids...

There is no money to pay for everything we have going now, and no way to get it, except to borrow it, it is unsustainable..period.

This is NOT political, it is basic economics...how would any company or household survive this type of spending?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

deleted repost.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I was a career man during and after the Viet Nam thing. That was when the Air Force really started enforcing up or out. Get promoted or be RIF'd. It was to, of course, reduce defense spending and reduce the number of men and women in uniform. they also, at that time, discussed changing the retirement system. I'm glad they didn't change it prior to me retiring.

DFrost


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> It is proposed by a DOD panel, in response to the President's ,and congresses call for DOD savings. It is a proposed thing, based on the fact that no such benefits are vested currently until 20 yrs, the proposal puts for something that could save money and benefit the shorter term people as well.
> 
> They are also kicking around a 30 yr retirement option.
> 
> ...


I'm sure you realize that the amount we spend on congressional pay and benefits is tantamount to a grain of sand at the beach. Sure, it would look nice politically if they would take a pay cut etc., but our financial house is in such disorder that such things are irrelevant to our fiscal health.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

My husband wants to go for twenty. His window opens in 2012 and I really hope he can re-enlist for the twenties... he is so darn close...


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

AZ just changed from a 20 to 25 year police/fire retirement.....that might be acceptable, but the also put in a min retirement age of 52.5 which is absurd and will ensure that we have second rate police/fire from here on out




just like raising the age of SS retirement, I could see needing to change it for FUTURE hires/enlistees


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

of course they shouldnt be able to change the rules for those already in (and should be illegal), Im talking about those not yet in


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Quick Joby! Throw a robe on! Your demographics are showing.....


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> It is proposed by a DOD panel, in response to the President's ,and congresses call for DOD savings. It is a proposed thing, based on the fact that no such benefits are vested currently until 20 yrs, the proposal puts for something that could save money and benefit the shorter term people as well.
> 
> They are also kicking around a 30 yr retirement option.
> 
> ...


I think people who signed a contract should get what they were promised. If you signed up for twenty you should get it. The economics of it all is that we have people and companies that are not being taxed fairly. Can you say Flat tax?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

After March of 2013, I'm going to sit on the porch and draw 3 gument checks. And I'm going to like it. Soooooo all you young folks need to keep paying into that social security, I surely will appreciate it.

DFrost


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> After March of 2013, I'm going to sit on the porch and draw 3 gument checks. And I'm going to like it. Soooooo all you young folks need to keep paying into that social security, I surely will appreciate it.
> 
> DFrost


You're a greedy bastid Frost. You should give up one of the checks, so some welfare mom can afford to have an even dozen kids on our dime. It will make you feel warn all over.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> You're a greedy bastid Frost. You should give up one of the checks, so some welfare mom can afford to have an even dozen kids on our dime. It will make you feel warn all over.


ha ha ha, NOT likely. I can get the warmth from the tug on my mason jar. ha ha.

DFrost


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Not satisfied with just double dipping huh lol.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

David Frost said:


> After March of 2013, I'm going to sit on the porch and draw 3 gument checks. And I'm going to like it. Soooooo all you young folks need to keep paying into that social security, I surely will appreciate it.
> 
> DFrost


You need to have a baby! I have a minor child. That qualifies me for more!!!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> You need to have a baby! I have a minor child. That qualifies me for more!!!


Hmmmm, I guess I could adopt, I was neutered years ago, ha ha

DFrost


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

David Frost said:


> After March of 2013, I'm going to sit on the porch and draw 3 gument checks. And I'm going to like it. Soooooo all you young folks need to keep paying into that social security, I surely will appreciate it.
> 
> DFrost


It's a good thing you're not collecting them now; in a couple days they may not be sent.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

catherine hardigan said:


> It's a good thing you're not collecting them now; in a couple days they may not be sent.


I used to think I had "stable" income. Things change!


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

There won't be any SSI left for me. I wish it would quit getting taken out of my check. 

And seriously David imo what your doing is part of the current problem. Your are entitled to it though through years and years of hard work so you definitely deserve it but imo its probably part of the current problem.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

I guess this has come about due to the debt issues? 
I saw somewhere that the US Debt works out around $50,000 US for every man, woman and child in the USA. It said that around 40% of the federal budget is financed through borrowing. 
It also said that the current Euro countries that economies have collapsed, their debt was around 100-120 % of their GDP. The USA is around 100% now and will go over 100% if the debt celling is raised.
Thats some scarey numbers, and no matter who is in office, or going to be in office, there is going to have to be some massive pain to get it under control. And if the USA goes bad every other country is gonna get hit as well.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

It is simple Math..with very large numbers...


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Thomas Jones said:


> There won't be any SSI left for me. I wish it would quit getting taken out of my check.
> 
> And seriously David imo what your doing is part of the current problem. Your are entitled to it though through years and years of hard work so you definitely deserve it but imo its probably part of the current problem.


Maybe you just need to make more money.  The social security retirement fund is only imposed on the first $106,800 in wages. So... with the FICA rate at 4.2% nobody pays more than about 4.5k per year, not even people with astronomic incomes.

If you haven't already, now might be a good time to invest in precious metals or in a more steady currency. I hear Switzerland is nice this time of year.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

the truth is there is NO money in the SS..."trust fund". It has all been "borrowed" and spent.

Forget there being enough until 2036 or whatever, there is not enough next month...

Even if we are out of money, and cant borrow more, SS should theoretically be able to be paid out, because it is "s;ef funded" but that is not the case. The 2.6 Trillion, that is supposedly there, is not there. 

That is one thing that the current debt issues have made painfully clear. The big lie about the Social Security Trust Fund..


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

catherine hardigan said:


> Maybe you just need to make more money.  The social security retirement fund is only imposed on the first $106,800 in wages. So... with the FICA rate at 4.2% nobody pays more than about 4.5k per year, not even people with astronomic incomes.
> 
> If you haven't already, now might be a good time to invest in precious metals or in a more steady currency. I hear Switzerland is nice this time of year.


I won't have to depend on SSI at all. I'm not trying to brag but when I start with Transocean the end of August I'll be making just over 100k a year. Its a tough job and your gone for 6 months of the year but you make really good money. My dads lawyer has a few things set up for me retirement and I've had a 401k for about 3 years now so I should be able to retire happily when the time comes. I'm also fairly certain that a lot of my money was put into silver not too long ago.


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Thomas Jones said:


> I won't have to depend on SSI at all. I'm not trying to brag but when I start with Transocean the end of August I'll be making just over 100k a year. Its a tough job and your gone for 6 months of the year but you make really good money. My dads lawyer has a few things set up for me retirement and I've had a 401k for about 3 years now so I should be able to retire happily when the time comes. I'm also fairly certain that a lot of my money was put into silver not too long ago.


Fairly certain? 

I agree, though, that we will be on our own when we retire. This is especially true now that everybody's 401k's have been hosed. 

FYI, the rule of thumb is to hedge your retirement investments by keeping 10% of your assets in metals, and this may increase to 15-20% by retirement. If you think the US dollar is going to tank then investing in the BRIC economies, and commodities is a good idea too. 

Good luck with your investments!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I just read that Apple Computers has more cash reserves then the
United States of America....now that's a SAD commentary :-(
Steve Jobs for President anyone?


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