# Schutzhund / IPO



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

OK without dragging names into this, I am going to ask this question :-({|=

How many people think because you dont compete in schutzhund or IPO , or get a BH on a dog think you cannot handle, train or be a working dog person?

I was just told because i havent even put a BH on a dog that describes everything about a working dog person in so many words.

I was also told in so many words that if you go to specatate and hang at a club that, your a waste of good space and air, is this how most clubs treat folks that are new or visiting, I have only been to a few but I can see why some get turned away and comments are made such as clicky, politics, money, snooty. I sure hope not because the ones I have been to I have enjoyed. unkown by somes comments here.

Just curious of your comments good, bad, indifferent..............

I am assuming there wont be to many comments do to the fact of being embarrased by these folks directly made comments of the above and want no part of this thread because I sure the hell wouldnt being a SCH or IPO, I be uphauled by these members of your sport.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Harry Keely said:


> OK without dragging names into this, I am going to ask this question :-({|=
> 
> How many people think because you dont compete in schutzhund or IPO , or get a BH on a dog think you cannot handle, train or be a working dog person?
> 
> ...


I do NOT think that just because a person doesn't train/compete in schH/IPO means they cannot handle, train or be a working dog person. That would be really dumb. 

I DO think a lot of people make huge assumptions/judgements about schutzhund that are not true, based on no experience or very limited experience or based on what they have read/seen on the Internet. (not saying you, Harry, just saying I have noticed this in general).

I can't speak about most clubs, only the clubs I have been involved with and/or visited. I have pretty much always been treated well, whether as a spectator or participant.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

On one hand I have been really appalled at what a club I belong had routinely done to prospective members. It was really amazing how rude the newbies were treated. I've seen it more than once at different clubs, so it's for sure out there. On the other hand I've seen clubs that really treat newbies well and show an interest in them and there dogs.

That being said I can see the point of treating people indifferently after awhile. I'm sure most clubs start out treating everyone well. But it has to wear you down after awhile having people show up for a few sessions, giving them your all, for them to never show again, not even a thanks for the time invested. Do that 50 times or more, I'll bet it wears anyone down. 

So while I still don't condone treating people rudely or whatever, I'm not all about rolling out the red carpet either. If the newbies can handle a little bit of being ignored or whatever, then maye they will last more than a few sessions.

IPO has recently allowed many individual titles, OB, tracking, etc., if your not chasing one or another than I don't really want to waste time on you when it could be better spent on someone that has goals in mind. Just MHO.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> I do NOT think that just because a person doesn't train/compete in schH/IPO means they cannot handle, train or be a working dog person. That would be really dumb.
> 
> I DO think a lot of people make huge assumptions/judgements about schutzhund that are not true, based on no experience or very limited experience or based on what they have read/seen on the Internet. (not saying you, Harry, just saying I have noticed this in general).
> 
> I can't speak about most clubs, only the clubs I have been involved with and/or visited. I have pretty much always been treated well, whether as a spectator or participant.


I am guilty at best of being a novice if that about the sport, go to the titles thread you will see it for yourself haha, but not ashamed of it either.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Edward Egan said:


> On one hand I have been really appalled at what a club I belong had routinely done to prospective members. It was really amazing how rude the newbies were treated. I've seen it more than once at different clubs, so it's for sure out there. On the other hand I've seen clubs that really treat newbies well and show an interest in them and there dogs.
> 
> That being said I can see the point of treating people indifferently after awhile. I'm sure most clubs start out treating everyone well. But it has to wear you down after awhile having people show up for a few sessions, giving them your all, for them to never show again, not even a thanks for the time invested. Do that 50 times or more, I'll bet it wears anyone down.
> 
> ...


It happen to me in Columbia,SC, you can refer to the titles thread, just for the record no red carpet needed i agree there but you guys need to understand a old saying.

" out with the old in with the new " , what I mean with that if the clubs dont bring forward new and hopely young prospectives then the end result is the old die and there no young and new so there for the sport dies with the old, I dont hink that would be wanted by any in my eyes.

Understand the wasting time part, but how do you know if thats a prospective member, do people want to be known as the person that treated them like shit and ignored them. I would do sport and a few different sports at a few clubs for sure if I lived by them because the people were welcoming, not just saying that either.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I have been to a few clubs..

The thing I CAN say is that they are interested in SCH.. which is appropriate I think.

When at those clubs, the bitework and things we do are SCH. related, I was serious about titling at one point, in my head, but just could not get myself to follow through with the tracking portion of it. I am not an expert, but with the support I do have, if inclined I am pretty sure titling would not be an issue, I just never put forth the full effort required, because it is just not my cup of tea in reality..

I get to go because I am friends with the REAL helper, that the clubs bring in on occasion, and the club members SEEM to like me, I get hugs when I do go...I have never officially JOINED a club, but do help with the blinds, with the lines, take off some load in the helper department occasionally, and help brainstorm problems, as far as bite-work is concerned I feel I am an asset, and so do others I think, I generally try to make myself useful and am generally interested in the sport...and work the helper's dogs.

I am sure there are more serious clubs where I would not be as welcome, since I am not dedicated enough to pursue titling in a serious fashion, and I could understand that...

I wait until we leave the club, before I trash talk some of the dogs and some of the people , usually with the helper.., while there, I watch the club members trash talk eachother behind their backs, quietly  and listen to them talk about my dog too....behind my back...


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> I have been to a few clubs..
> 
> The thing I CAN say is that they are interested in SCH.. which is appropriate I think.
> 
> ...


I am the same way Joby, with the tracking part, the OB and protection I can handle, although I have never been taught there way of tracking, I can train a man tracking dog so I guess in theory of scent is scent I could do it, but the cool thing about it is from what i understand and i might be putting my foot in my mouth is you can get a protection and OB seperatley of a sch1, they go by letters like scha and what not. I mean IPO, forgot to my knowkedge its all IPO as of january 1.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> ....
> 
> I was just told because i havent even put a BH on a dog that describes everything about a working dog person in so many words.
> 
> ...



You are full of shit Harry. Your "in so many words" means you left out a lot of them. I stuck to the subject of sport titles, specifically SchH (now IPO), and I said you went to quite a few clubs, claimed that you knew the routines, but then you still felt the need to say the titles weren't important to you., but it seems you kept showing up at these clubs. If the titles aren't important to you, then YES, you are wasting space (and others time) by going there, and then turning around and still saying how unimportant they are to you. I belong to the oldest SchH club in the US, and anybody is welcome to come out and participate and work toward some titling goals, but that's not what you did (he didn't come to my club folks). I'm pretty sure we didn't hear the real story from you of why the one club felt you didn't belong there (paraphrasing your words), but now you want to start a new thread here so you can spin this all a different way. Hey, what's the name of the Training Director at the club where you said they didn't want you there "because you had a crazy mal"? I'd like to call him/her for their opinion.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> You are full of shit Harry. Your "in so many words" means you left out a lot of them. I stuck to the subject of sport titles, specifically SchH (now IPO), and I said you went to quite a few clubs, claimed that you knew the routines, but then you still felt the need to say the titles weren't important to you., but it seems you kept showing up at these clubs. If the titles aren't important to you, then YES, you are wasting space (and others time) by going there, and then turning around and still saying how unimportant they are to you. I belong to the oldest SchH club in the US, and anybody is welcome to come out and participate and work toward some titling goals, but that's not what you did (he didn't come to my club folks). I'm pretty sure we didn't hear the real story from you of why the one club felt you didn't belong there (paraphrasing your words), but now you want to start a new thread here so you can spin this all a different way. Hey, what's the name of the Training Director at the club where you said they didn't want you there "because you had a crazy mal"? I'd like to call him/her for their opinion.


*** didnt leave out anywords people can refer to the other thread, I showed up at these clubs to not join, I was either there with friends or there on business ***

also didnt bash sport or titles I simply asked opposing questions, once again read the other thread labeled titles, you were looking way to into it and maybe trying to see it for something it wasnt and trying to convince yourself of it in your eyes by justification for one reason or another in your own way.

1. The columbia SC club guys dead like I stated, do your research you'll see for yourself

2. which club is that Skip that you belong too?

Not spinning nothing folks look at other thread again ( titles ) and read from start to finish before commenting please. Skip you are sure defensive...... I was trying to leave names out but hey I guess you allowed to mention yourself, its a free country.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Harry maybe I misunderstood your question. Almost every club I have ever belonged to or visited wanted members who at minimum set titling goals for their dogs. The one club that didn't require people who set minimum goals was a complete cluster****. We were always there until all hours of the night, spinning wheels on dogs that weren't ever going to set foot on a trial field, while those who were serious about at least titling their dogs werent able to get enough time in with the helper with their own dogs, so they were compromised. No fun at all, and the helper totally burned out. Complete cluster ****. The situation here in the United States is there just flat out aren't enough schutzhund helpers or schutzhund clubs to accomodate the person who is not actually interested in pursuing schutzhund.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> *** didnt leave out anywords people can refer to the other thread, I showed up at these clubs to not join, I was either there with friends or there on business ***
> 
> also didnt bash sport or titles I simply asked opposing questions, once again read the other thread labeled titles
> 
> ...


...

Not defensive, just tired of your BS...but if the SC club is still there, someone from there should remember you there, right?


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Harry maybe I misunderstood your question. Almost every club I have ever belonged to or visited wanted members who at minimum set titling goals for their dogs. The one club that didn't require people who set minimum goals was a complete cluster****. We were always there until all hours of the night, spinning wheels on dogs that weren't ever going to set foot on a trial field, while those who were serious about at least titling their dogs werent able to get enough time in with the helper with their own dogs, so they were compromised. No fun at all, and the helper totally burned out. Complete cluster ****. The situation here in the United States is there just flat out aren't enough helpers or clubs at the present time for the person who sees it more as a social setting or wants to informally train their dogs or is not interested in schutzhund.


Yea thats fine at no point did I not say you shouldnt title a dog if you are going to participate in a sport


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> ...
> 
> Not defensive, just tired of your BS...but if the SC club is still there, someone from there should remember you there, right?


Its been a number of years and I was there for a short period of time obviously as I stated but go for yours and ask, nobody is stopping ya right, I am cool with it, maybe you will get lucky and find out things are different there now, which will be fine. But make it clear to them i was not bashing all just the one that told me that, because I dont need you starting shit for me.

Still waiting on you to tell me the club you belong too so i can verify that I was there being that I have already advertised which ones it should be easy to verify my truth, now what club was it again you belong too, I'm sorry if I missed on where you mentioned it.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Its been a number of years and I was there for a short period of time obviously as I stated but go for yours and ask, nobody is stopping ya right, I am cool with it, maybe you will get lucky and find out things are different there now, which will be fine. But make it clear to them i was not bashing all just the one that told me that, because I dont need you starting shit for me.
> 
> Still waiting on you to tell me the club you belong too so i can verify that I was there being that I have already advertised which ones it should be easy to verify my truth, now what club was it again you belong too, I'm sorry if I missed on where you mentioned it.


You've started your own shit here, and I have doubts about a lot of your stories. Sorry, missed that: mine is OG Ohio Hundesport in Dalton, Ohio. Training director John Nussbaum. I've had to take a few months off, but I was there for a lot of years.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> ...
> 
> Not defensive, just tired of your BS...but if the SC club is still there, someone from there should remember you there, right?


What BS you referring too, the fact that a title doesnt make a dog a better dog for breeding or necessarily a better dog than a untitled dog, what ?????

Thats alright though take your time and do your homework and get back to us all, I am going to jump off for awhile in a few minutes and grab a bite to eat, I be sure to check back though to verify if your being honest or not if you so choose that route.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> You've started your own shit here, and I have doubts about a lot of your stories. Sorry, missed that: mine is OG Ohio Hundesport in Dalton, Ohio. Training director John Nussbaum. I've had to take a few months off, but I was there for a lot of years.


Never have ever been to your club you are right, I have been to DC club, asheville / hendersonville both of these with friends in the past, mideastern regionals the year basco won I believe with Mike as a helper to one of my buyers whos a vendor, then wusv 2008 in kentucky ( public field ) again with the same vendor, Nationals when it was in atlanta again with that same vendor. Didnt start no shit that I cant back pal, there for not shit in my eyes maybe others but not mine.

So what else do you want verification on sir, like I said got nothing to hide and have no problem admitting wrong and proving wrong Skip. Now going to eat but like I said I will check back do your homework this time before opening your mouth. Although you have amendment rights so do as you feel, open mouth insert foot.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Never have ever been to your club you are right, I have been to DC club, asheville / hendersonville both of these with friends in the past, mideastern regionals the year basco won I believe with Mike as a helper to one of my buyers whos a vendor, then wusv 2008 in kentucky ( public field ) again with the same vendor, Nationals when it was in atlanta again with that same vendor. Didnt start no shit that I cant back pal, there for not shit in my eyes maybe others but not mine.
> 
> So what else do you want verification on sir, like I said got nothing to hide and have no problem admitting wrong and proving wrong Skip. Now going to eat but like I said I will check back do your homework this time before opening your mouth. Although you have amendment rights so do as you feel, open mouth insert foot.


Ya know what Harry, I've been contacted by some real good people (in my opinion) on here that ask why I'm wasting time on you...and that's a damn fine question...Part of your first post that you started about titles said "I could care less about a title", but still you kept going to different sport clubs (usually a bad sign for any club to want you) enough times to the point where you felt you "knew all the routines" for the titles there. Personally, I just don't trust a lot that you have to say. I think you have tried to put down sport titles to somehow make WHATEVER it is you have accomplished seem more valuable. I'm glad to see anybody doing good things with their dogs but at the same time I see this kind of crap time and time again...it's the old "I know a lot about dogs, and I've accomplished a lot in my own way (but don't ask me to prove any of it)". There's a ton about dogs I don't know, but I read people pretty well. It doesn't matter if I contact all those clubs you "attended", because it's clear you accomplished nothing at them, and now you come onto a forum to state you could "care less about a title". I get this feeling that these sport clubs saw through you too. You wasted their time, and now you (and I) are wasting mine. Time to go train some dogs.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> Ya know what Harry, I've been contacted by some real good people (in my opinion) on here that ask why I'm wasting time on you...and that's a damn fine question...Part of your first post that you started about titles said "I could care less about a title", but still you kept going to different sport clubs (usually a bad sign for any club to want you) enough times to the point where you felt you "knew all the routines" for the titles there. Personally, I just don't trust a lot that you have to say. I think you have tried to put down sport titles to somehow make WHATEVER it is you have accomplished seem more valuable. I'm glad to see anybody doing good things with their dogs but at the same time I see this kind of crap time and time again...it's the old "I know a lot about dogs, and I've accomplished a lot in my own way (but don't ask me to prove any of it)". There's a ton about dogs I don't know, but I read people pretty well. It doesn't matter if I contact all those clubs you "attended", because it's clear you accomplished nothing at them, and now you come onto a forum to state you could "care less about a title". I get this feeling that these sport clubs saw through you too. You wasted their time, and now you (and I) are wasting mine. Time to go train some dogs.


:lol::lol::lol: I'm asking myself that too so I guess theres probally alot of others wondering as well, but hell here we go, as far as the could care less comment read the thread folks to get the whole picture, not bashing titles or sports ( title thread ). Never claimed to know all the routines please go to other post as well ( titled thread ), how can I make your life easier to prove you wrong and me right, would you like names Skip, I know too that will verify that will wonder how stupid is this guy calling me wanting info, but will answer you. Never ever ever once did I claim anything to be better than anything else, also read the other thread or anything else I have written. Never said I was the answer to prayer of knowing everything about dogs I admit that on here and on the other threads. Your right I have accomplished shit in my own way, because theres no way of titling a green or started pup / young dog / adult dog ( sorry I know its not sufficient enough for ya, but I am not out to impress you). Nobody saw through shit because I never told them I was something I wasnt nor did I ever show up with a dog except for the one club in SC, the other two clubs was visiting with a friend and the other three were a vendor helper roll. But you do what you have to do to insult me to make yourself feel better about what your own justifications are OK pal.

Oh by the way you really show some true colors to why this thread was started by the way, so congrats on that one.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Harry, don't try to re-frame this; it makes you look disingenuous. What you said was...



> I was told in so many words that my dog was sub standard because I wasn't a GSD owner ( little did he know ), and that my dog would never really be anything because I couldnt compete at worlds, which at the time *I didnt want to compete and was just looking for strange fields, strange helpers*, as I still do to keep the dogs from get the closet effect.


If you don't want to train IPO you don't go to the IPO club. Simple for the simple minded.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> :lol::lol::lol: I'm asking myself that too so I guess theres probally alot of others wondering as well, but hell here we go, as far as the could care less comment read the thread folks to get the whole picture, not bashing titles or sports ( title thread ). Never claimed to know all the routines please go to other post as well ( titled thread ), how can I make your life easier to prove you wrong and me right, would you like names Skip, I know too that will verify that will wonder how stupid is this guy calling me wanting info, but will answer you. Never ever ever once did I claim anything to be better than anything else, also read the other thread or anything else I have written. Never said I was the answer to prayer of knowing everything about dogs I admit that on here and on the other threads. Your right I have accomplished shit in my own way, because theres no way of titling a green or started pup / young dog / adult dog ( sorry I know its not sufficient enough for ya, but I am not out to impress you). Nobody saw through shit because I never told them I was something I wasnt nor did I ever show up with a dog except for the one club in SC, the other two clubs was visiting with a friend and the other three were a vendor helper roll. But you do what you have to do to insult me to make yourself feel better about what your own justifications are OK pal.
> 
> Oh by the way you really show some true colors to why this thread was started by the way, so congrats on that one.


Guess I can "try" to dummy it down even further for you. Here's how I would have respected your viewpoint. If you had started off by saying "Titles don't mean anything to me...but I'm a breeder/trainer and I've found that I have these other methods that have shown consistent/ verifiable results...these methods are a..b..c..etc....and I can point to these good verifiable results that shows that my methods have a lot of value besides just "titles"....THEN SPARKY you might have made a little sense...BUT when you come out stating that titles are unimportant to you, then all I see is you jump around to a bunch of sport clubs, show absolutely NOTHING that your ideas/methods have accomplished in any shape or form, then for some reason you think you HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON to talk about whether titles have any meaning or not. On what successes of your own do you base the importance of your knowledge ? If all you wanted was a simple discussion, you shouldn't come out as a starting point to say what IS NOT important, when instead you should show what has really worked for you. OK, let's take the sport titles completely out of it, .....what are your successful methods? Very simple question...just please don't use the back yard breeder excuse for breeding that "you know a good dog when you see one".


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> Harry, don't try to re-frame this; it makes you look disingenuous. What you said was...
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't want to train IPO you don't go to the IPO club. Simple for the simple minded.


Your right I at the time wasnt looking for a sport club I was looking for strage things and nothing more, but the right club and right people in the right place I would go to club to title, but like I said already it probally wouldnt on a sleeve but a suit ( no punt intended ).


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> Guess I can "try" to dummy it down even further for you. Here's how I would have respected your viewpoint. If you had started off by saying "Titles don't mean anything to me...but I'm a breeder/trainer and I've found that I have these other methods that have shown consistent/ verifiable results...these methods are a..b..c..etc....and I can point to these good verifiable results that shows that my methods have a lot of value besides just "titles"....THEN SPARKY you might have made a little sense...BUT when you come out stating that titles are unimportant to you, then all I see is you jump around to a bunch of sport clubs, show absolutely NOTHING that your ideas/methods have accomplished in any shape or form, then for some reason you think you HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON to talk about whether titles have any meaning or not. On what successes of your own do you base the importance of your knowledge ? If all you wanted was a simple discussion, you shouldn't come out as a starting point to say what IS NOT important, when instead you should show what has really worked for you. OK, let's take the sport titles completely out of it, .....what are your successful methods? Very simple question...just please don't use the back yard breeder excuse for breeding that "you know a good dog when you see one".


OK Skip this is gotten childish, so this is my last hoopla with ya, then you cant call me a looser or what ever you want because I cant keep up with this crap over and over and dragged out in different wording saying the samethings over and over and over, we sound like nagging old ladies for gods sake.

That would not come out of my mouth I have done two breedings in the last 10 years, I am NOT a breeder, I recently just kinda participated in a female that was owned by me she is a cert narc dog and her stud is a PH1 dog ( both titled or certified go figure huh ). Titles are unimportant for heavens sakes depending on the dog ( read the whole thread for the big picture called titled geeeez ) I am noit jumping around sport clubs to waste people time on training a dog that I dont have the mind set of training ( jesus christ man do you read ), I dont give a crap what you think I dont want to talk credibility i rather you show me yours and I will show you mine at this point - if you think I am a smuck I could care less, I have nothing and no reason to satisfy your thirst to conversate anymore with you at this time. Just to add to your mind set of me " I know a good dog when I see one " I dont test dogs I see if they eat cookies from my hand OK. Nor do I or have I ever worked a dog in my life. I am a idiot and a smuck and a moron, Are you happy can you move on with your life now. 

Oh yea its OK to disagree, not everybody has to see it the skip way to train a dog and start a thread, God I wish I knew how to delete people from viewing. Hey heres another term for ya the only thing two dog people can agree on is to disagree, its been posted a abundance here. Not another bad theory.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lets keep all the personal BS out of these discussions. They were started to create "discussions" about pros and cons, thoughts and ideas and NOT name calling and insults. 
If someone disagrees to the point they feel the need to toss names/insults they should stay off the the particular sublect/post.
This sort of crap has gotten way out of line lately!


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## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

Hello

I do not agree with the statement , if you do not train a working dog for a BH or IPO, that you cannot train a dog. There is way more other sports out there. 
Me personally, i like to train dogs, I like to set personal goals and am trying to achieve them. And there it doesn't matter what I am training for. 
the BH, by all means again- and this seems to be a comon missconception- is *not* a working dog title!!!!
Begleithundpruefung is a title for all dogs, supirior to the CGC by far, but this it what it was intended for, to train your dog so it can accompany (begleiten) you everywhere. Most of other sports, in other countries- require a BH before you can start in other competitions.
So for one that says you cannot train a working dog if you do not do a BH is misinformed from the beginning- it is a title for all dogs not just exclusive Schutzhund or IPO clubs. 
For that the clubs should be more open to people that may not have a worlchampion working dog, but for Fifi from next door,too. Because after all what does it hurt to have one more trained dog in the neighborhood. 
and you never know, this owner might be just the new helper, or new working dog owner your club needs.
I have been to a few clubs, and I have been treated 50:50, One club in particular was very helpfull. they seemed to except my methods even though they trained some things differently- but they helped where they could to further me and my dogs. A very nice expereince. 
Then we moved again and well, what can i say, most clubs didn't even respond back- or i got comments in essence: Don't bother talking to us or stopping by if you don't have the dogs. Needless to say, I am not going anywehre close to these clubs if i can help it....

I,too, agree that people coming and going can be exhausting, as one said, you give your all and then they leave.... but some do stick and they are usually a great asset....
For me IPO/Schutzhund whatever you want to call it, is a hobby, a thing me and my dogs enjoy to do.
Thopugh we are striving for completing training goals aka titles, it is not the utmost important thing. We do have dogs in our club that never will be doung a IPO1, but they do TR, OB etc. 

Our club members occationally do ahve to do travel and try to get in contact with clubs in the area they will residing- sometimes for month- but they weren't even allowed to come be a spectator, one of the reason was, because they are too busy to practice for a trail (and one spectator can ruin the training?)

Or we know of other people that like to get in contact with local Schutzhund clubs/ IPO (or however you want to call it now) for a BH, but noone feels the need to answer them, cause their main venue is SAR!

This makes a very sad statement for the Schutzhund clubs....


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Kat Hunsecker said:


> Hello
> 
> I do not agree with the statement , if you do not train a working dog for a BH or IPO, that you cannot train a dog. ......


I've never seen that original statement anywhere on here...please show me where that was said...that EXACT statement please.


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## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> :-({|=
> 
> How many people think because you dont compete in schutzhund or IPO , or get a BH on a dog think you cannot handle, train or be a working dog person?


Was refering to this question.... may not have been stated in this thread... but obviously there must have been a comment that made the original poster believe that some people do think this...
and I was expressing that you do not need to title a dog to be a working dog person- or that you are still able to train a dog despite the fact you do not title a dog in this areas...


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Kat Hunsecker said:


> Was refering to this question.... may not have been stated in this thread... but obviously there must have been a comment that made the original poster believe that some people do think this...
> and I was expressing that you do not need to title a dog to be a working dog person- or that you are still able to train a dog despite the fact you do not title a dog in this areas...


It was not stated in this thread by me the OP, obviously there are all kinds of stupid shit said by people on all threads. it was a genrealization question nothing more nothing less..........:-\"

As far as this statemnet by YOU I agree : and I was expressing that you do not need to title a dog to be a working dog person- or that you are still able to train a dog despite the fact you do not title a dog in this areas:grin:.

Lets not drag this out you expressed your opinion which you are entitled to and leave it at that, we dont need world war 5,000,000](*,), thanks for posting your thoughts Kat.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Kat Hunsecker said:


> Was refering to this question.... may not have been stated in this thread... but obviously there must have been a comment that made the original poster believe that some people do think this...
> and I was expressing that you do not need to title a dog to be a working dog person- or that you are still able to train a dog despite the fact you do not title a dog in this areas...


Oh, I see...I was just curious because I didn't see where ANYBODY had originally said that they believed that. I saw Harry's question also, it's just that I never saw any original statement where somebody said they felt that way (because nobody did). Thanks.


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## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

Your welcome....


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> I've never seen that original statement anywhere on here...please show me where that was said...that EXACT statement please.





Kat Hunsecker said:


> Was refering to this question.... may not have been stated in this thread... but obviously there must have been a comment that made the original poster believe that some people do think this...
> and I was expressing that you do not need to title a dog to be a working dog person- or that you are still able to train a dog despite the fact you do not title a dog in this areas...





Skip Morgart said:


> Oh, I see...I was just curious because I didn't see where ANYBODY had originally said that they believed that. I saw Harry's question also, it's just that I never saw any original statement where somebody said they felt that way (because nobody did). Thanks.





Kat Hunsecker said:


> Your welcome....


http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f28/titles-22850/index15.html number 143 / I might of percieved it the wrong way, after all its hard to get a read on anybody or anything through a screen, but its how it sounded maybe not directly but in around about way is how it sounded to me, but like I said I am not looking for a world war, I am just clarifying how it came across to me, but its the past so time to move on to the future, right - right.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Harry Keely said:


> ... its the past so time to move on to the future, right - right.


Right.


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