# Sportsmanship Role Model...



## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfRFqM-zbP4&sns=fb


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

now I know how to treat dogs [-X


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

never sledded a dog. but what was going on with the dogs? were they just DONE? I mean aside from that asshole dude...


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

that would ALMOST be comical if it weren't so......disturbing. i also don't sled dogs, but those guys were either "done" as joby said, or just quit for lack of enthusiasm. hmmmm.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

looks like they were exhausted to me...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

so in this case, he should have quit, correct?

From what I have heard it is not a rare occasion for some of these sled dogs to be mistreated by the mushers...

I am more disturbed by the way the dogs were just done (I think) and forced to continue, than by his rough handling "stacking" of the dogs by itself...I thought that one dog was dead at first....

if the dogs were fresh and just not lining up right or whatever and the guy roughly stacked them like that, it would not look nearly as bad to me, as this whole picture did....forcing them to continue when at least one looked like he might be dead for a second there....

I have zero knowledge of sled dogs though...

that guy is a big fat douche, I concur...


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

ya he should have stopped, and seeked medical attention for the dogs, looks like maybe heat exaustion , they could be dehydrated , the one dog in the bag, will hopefully not die, but looks pretty close..


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

My Vet worked the iditarod years ago. Sled dog racing can be a brutal sport :-(


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irvGOMF99PU&feature=related&fb_source=message


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Somebody should run that guy until he pukes and passes out. Then that somebody should beat him until he gets up and runs some more.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

That video has been going pretty viral in sledding circles. It's really horrible -the dogs looked really, really hot and are trying to cool off by lying down on the snow ,plus they look totally 'done'. The guy is totally out of line and very abusive to his dogs- you have to run with total disregard of your dogs to let them get to that state. An overheated dog should NEVER be bagged until it is cooled off - vented bag or not. Race organizations are pretty strict in rules against abusive behaviour and that kind of behaviour will get you DQ or banned anywhere. From what I have read on other boards the guy in question got a lifetime ban - and rightly so.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

The 1st video has been removed.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eb0_1330692491

another copy....


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> That video has been going pretty viral in sledding circles. It's really horrible -the dogs looked really, really hot and are trying to cool off by lying down on the snow ,plus they look totally 'done'. The guy is totally out of line and very abusive to his dogs- you have to run with total disregard of your dogs to let them get to that state. An overheated dog should NEVER be bagged until it is cooled off - vented bag or not. Race organizations are pretty strict in rules against abusive behaviour and that kind of behaviour will get you DQ or banned anywhere. From what I have read on other boards the guy in question got a lifetime ban - and rightly so.


Agreed...this is just shameful to watch. Videos like this are why PETA is trying to get the Iditarod banned. I am glad the sled dog community came down strongly on this.

Lynn, just for my own understanding, is bagging putting the done dog in a bag on the sled for transport? Always looking to learn more.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Yes - 'bagging a dog' refers to putting a dog in a sled bag or dog bag. Race governing bodies like ISDRA require a sled bag capable of carrying a dog for most races - for sprint racing the bag has to have a minimum of mesh or screen of 144 inches to vent the bag as the dog has to be able to be completely secured in the bag for safety. For distance racing there is usually not a stipulation for vented bags as overheating is less likely to be an issues as the dogs are running at slower speeds and less likely to overheat. Overheating can be a sign of a team that is not properly conditioned and lacking the training for the effort that is being asked of it.
Dogs get bagged for various reasons - sore wrist etc. I want to make it clear that in no way is it at all common or considered acceptable to run a dog into the state shown in that video- those dogs should have been off the trail well before they were in that state. Dogs are usually bagged for reasons that are much more minor and it is done for humane reasons and to prevent further distress or injury to the dog. Mid to longer distance races have 'dog drops' at checkpoints where dogs can be left and taken care of if so needed and again - usually for minor issues.


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## Tanya Beka (Aug 12, 2008)

disgusting...can't even watch the whole video...


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm not even going to watch the start of it. 



Lynne hoping u will keep us updated on any actions taken by the community/authorities.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i'm glad he was banned for life, there's no earthly reason to treat animals like that. question though: i would assume (i know, not a good idea) that there are vet checkpoints in these races. are they spread so far apart that the team could look ok at the last checkpoint, then end up in this condition before the next? poor dogs....


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> Yes - 'bagging a dog' refers to putting a dog in a sled bag or dog bag. Race governing bodies like ISDRA require a sled bag capable of carrying a dog for most races - for sprint racing the bag has to have a minimum of mesh or screen of 144 inches to vent the bag as the dog has to be able to be completely secured in the bag for safety. For distance racing there is usually not a stipulation for vented bags as overheating is less likely to be an issues as the dogs are running at slower speeds and less likely to overheat. Overheating can be a sign of a team that is not properly conditioned and lacking the training for the effort that is being asked of it.
> Dogs get bagged for various reasons - sore wrist etc. I want to make it clear that in no way is it at all common or considered acceptable to run a dog into the state shown in that video- those dogs should have been off the trail well before they were in that state. Dogs are usually bagged for reasons that are much more minor and it is done for humane reasons and to prevent further distress or injury to the dog. Mid to longer distance races have 'dog drops' at checkpoints where dogs can be left and taken care of if so needed and again - usually for minor issues.


Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I read he was banned for a year. Not life. Also, The ****ers just walking back and forth and not intervening should get a good kick in the nuts also.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

http://www.fistc.com/

heres is the website of IFSS for more info etc....


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I dont think it was that bad. I have seen more punishment for not outing, not doing positions, shit even burning a dog with an ecollar for barking. Its wanks like you guys that give PETA fuel. You are just saying he should be banned. The guy just picked his dogs up gave them a shake for sucking and not linning up. He never kicked them beat them shocked them etc. He even pet one of them after getting him in his spot. Took one dog and put it on the sled.
I think you guys are over reacting to something that is a bit silly.


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I dont think it was that bad. I have seen more punishment for not outing, not doing positions, shit even burning a dog with an ecollar for barking. Its wanks like you guys that give PETA fuel. You are just saying he should be banned. The guy just picked his dogs up gave them a shake for sucking and not linning up. He never kicked them beat them shocked them etc. He even pet one of them after getting him in his spot. Took one dog and put it on the sled.
> I think you guys are over reacting to something that is a bit silly.



if you don't see anything wrong then you should not have a dog


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I dont think it was that bad. I have seen more punishment for not outing, not doing positions, shit even burning a dog with an ecollar for barking. Its wanks like you guys that give PETA fuel. You are just saying he should be banned. The guy just picked his dogs up gave them a shake for sucking and not linning up. He never kicked them beat them shocked them etc. He even pet one of them after getting him in his spot. Took one dog and put it on the sled.
> I think you guys are over reacting to something that is a bit silly.


He already was banned Daniel. I would agree with all the other posters, this guy needs his own personal come to jesus meeting. Also I defer to those who are experienced in the sport, such as Lynn Cheffins. It looks like the guy is a poor sport who didn't condition his animals properly and is taking his lack of preparedness out on his dogs. It seems to me the guy who should be chastized for giving PETA fuel is the guy mistreating his dogs, not those who call him on it.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Daniel those dogs were totally in the bag - it wasn't discipline and it wasn't because the dogs weren't lining out - they were hot and looked over run. They weren't 'sucking' they were probably hot to the verge of overheating - that's why they are laying down in the snow - notice the people walking around in the sun with the shirt sleeves pushed up?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> He already was banned Daniel. I would agree with all the other posters, this guy needs his own personal come to jesus meeting. Also I defer to those who are experienced in the sport, such as Lynn Cheffins. It looks like the guy is a poor sport who didn't condition his animals properly and is taking his lack of preparedness out on his dogs. It seems to me the guy who should be chastized for giving PETA fuel is the guy mistreating his dogs, not those who call him on it.


+1


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I dont think it was that bad. I have seen more punishment for not outing, not doing positions, shit even burning a dog with an ecollar for barking. Its wanks like you guys that give PETA fuel. You are just saying he should be banned. The guy just picked his dogs up gave them a shake for sucking and not linning up. He never kicked them beat them shocked them etc. He even pet one of them after getting him in his spot. Took one dog and put it on the sled.
> I think you guys are over reacting to something that is a bit silly.


 
Dude, I don't know what video you were looking at. No one said anything about the guy beating, or frying, or kicking the dogs. *THE DOGS ARE OVERHEATED AND EXHAUSTED.* Forcing them to continue w/o allowing sufficient rest, and/or cooling *WILL KILL THEM* and in the video they seem to be very near that end. This is where those who have commented are getting the *abuse* aspect of the video from. This type of dog is bred for and *LOVES *to run. When it will not run something is very wrong.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

probably a stupid Q but why was this vid w/ a strange title posted in the first place ?
- no Q asked
- no comment given
etc ?????

the dogs are clearly DONE
the handler isn't
after that it gets worse
is there something we were supposed to learn from this ????
as Joby would say .... WTF ???
only reason i opened it was because of all the interest it was getting...but sorry i did

i learned nothing except what bagging a dog means ... Thks for that trivia
...my brother has a husky that ran one Iditarod; now i have something to talk to him about 
](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Fodder for practicing your relaxation techniques Rick.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Tx Maggie 
sometimes i can't see the forest for the trees


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

rick smith said:


> probably a stupid Q but why was this vid w/ a strange title posted in the first place ?
> - no Q asked
> - no comment given
> etc ?????
> ...


don't worry, there are no stupid questions! Why do you think the title is strange?


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

OK guess I shouldn t own a dog. thanx I really needed a reality check!!!!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I dont think it was that bad. I have seen more punishment for not outing, not doing positions, shit even burning a dog with an ecollar for barking. Its wanks like you guys that give PETA fuel. You are just saying he should be banned. The guy just picked his dogs up gave them a shake for sucking and not linning up. He never kicked them beat them shocked them etc. He even pet one of them after getting him in his spot. Took one dog and put it on the sled.
> I think you guys are over reacting to something that is a bit silly.


I agree with this if only looking at the rough handling of the dogs, not a biggie for me, as I dont know jack about sledding, I did not get it quite at first either, but even I can see the dogs are done...that was my initial point...the handling of the dogs was not shocking to me, the running them, almost, to death was...

I can also say I have seen far worse (in regards to the actual handling of the dogs) at a Sch club training day...people werent happy about it there either....


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I agree with this if only looking at the rough handling of the dogs, not a biggie for me, as I dont know jack about sledding, I did not get it quite at first either, but even I can see the dogs are done...that was my initial point...the handling of the dogs was not shocking to me, the running them, almost, to death was...
> 
> I can also say I have seen far worse (in regards to the actual handling of the dogs) at a Sch club training day...people werent happy about it there either....


I think all of us who use physical corrections in our training feel this way, Joby..


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

update
http://sleddogsport.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=160&Itemid=2


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> I think all of us who use physical corrections in our training feel this way, Joby..


I think there is a HUGE difference between a dog that is just giving the handler the finger, and a dog that has been physically pushed to the max to where the dog HAS to shut down in order to survive. HUGE difference.


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