# Terrier beats lurcher to a rabbit :)



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

go on stan son!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEWwi37pKzU


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

It's not the big that eat the small...it's the fast that eat the slow. Them little legs are great for cornering.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Border x JRT. My guess it was a Border Collie x JRT because if it's larger size then ether a Border Terrier or a JRT. 
I'd always put money on that cross for speed if I were betting against a Bull X Lurcher.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm just guessing here, but the legs on that little terrier are just as compact and agile as that of the prey. He's not long and lumbering like the lurcher. Makes a h*ll of a difference for hard cuts and turns and acceleration times. Idk


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

Mama catches bunnies and squirrels on the ground,this little daughter also is super quick..problem with some terriers is they lack front reach . Usually out of lines bred for a certain appearance...nice vid thanks








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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Edward Weiss said:


> Mama catches bunnies and squirrels on the ground,this little daughter also is super quick..problem with some terriers is they lack front reach . Usually out of lines bred for a certain appearance...nice vid thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Agree 100%
A lot of the show line terriers have a shorter leg bone going from the shoulder to the elbow. That's what is considered "correct" for the "straight front" desired in the show lines. It can still allow a good reach if put together correctly. Often that "straight front" is the results of a shoulder with very little lay back. That destroys reach and the show terrier short back looses flexibility. 
In the working terrier shows the judge will often take a terrier and bend in in two to see how easily the nose can reach the tail. The good uns can turn around in a very narrow tunnel. 

The lurcher's (sight hound crosses) stride is as much about a very flexible spine as it is in correct reach and correct rear angulation. Put the the three together and you have the speed dogs.


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

What they done is illegal here,it's baiting not hunting to capture an animal move it away and then feed it to your dogs.

I'd possibly forgive them if they were starting a pup,but I highly doubt that since there's a terrier in the mix.

very silly to put it online,a fella got fined £17,000 for drowning a squirrel a couple of years ago.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

I don't agree with what's going on in the video however, different country, different rules, different strokes for different folks.


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

Rob Maltese said:


> I don't agree with what's going on in the video however, different country, different rules, different strokes for different folks.


I don't have a huge problem with what they done morally,just wouldn't do it myself regardless of the law.

But judging by the accents they're in the UK,and could potentially go to prison for this.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

shane beanhard said:


> very silly to put it online,a fella *got fined £17,000 for drowning a squirrel a couple of years ago.*


why?


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

Causing undue suffering,apparently you should take it out of the trap and crack it on the head,which is I'm sure's very easily done to an agitated squirrel. 

I forgot to say a neighbour filmed him and sent it to the RSPCA.

Animal rights charities like the RSPCA etc have a lot of influence here,unfortunately. 

But people have gone to prison for doing similar to what these lads do in the vid above


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Did you hear about the two fellas that went to the pokey for ratting with their dogs and had their dogs seized?


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

That sort of thing isn't uncommon over here unfortunately mate.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

From talking with terrier men that have come over here to hunt with us the UK animal rights folks make peta look like amateurs. 
Is the Country Alliance still active over there? Great group!


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

They are,though all those organisations seem to be much more in favour of shooting and have pretty much given up on the dog side. 

Shooters have money,lurcher and terrier men generally don't.

The mounted hunts are rich enough to look after themselves for the most part,so we're pretty much attacked from all sides and often used as scapegoats. 

What types of terriers did you keep?
my bushing dog's a stevens line Patterdale x Nigerino bred 'staff',would love to have the quarry you have over there,hogs,raccoons,coyote etc


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've had Kerrys. To big for anything but above ground hunting. One was a fair quail dog. The other, to my dismay, thined out the neighborhood cat lady's critters. I couldn't keep the dern things out of my yard.
One of my Kerrys was ranked Nationally in the top ten terriers in AKC obedience. 

Borders for earth work. They were to hard in the ground and I didn't care for the fact that they had no qualms about getting chewed up so I retired them. GREAT breed altogether though. 
One was undefeated in the show ring up to and including his CH at the BT Nationals as well as undefeated "colored dog" in working terrier shows and undefeated in the ground. Heart of a lion and gentle as a lamb....as long as you weren't covered by fur. 

One lovable but useless show line Norwich.

One fantastic JRT that would bay and bolt without ever taking much more then a nip. He was two generations from Eddie Chapman's lines. I had the pleasure of hunting with Eddie when he came over her to judge a working terrier show. He graciously signed both of the books I have that he wrote. 

A goofy, White Bull Terrier that thought every day was party time. ](*,)

A nice Pit my brother and I "rescued" one starlit night from dog fighters. 8-[

Numerous terrier mixes that were hunting and or house pets.

I've finished 5 terriers of four different breed to their CH with one group win and 4 group placements. 8-[:-$

My hunting partner was a JRTCA Working Judge so I helped dig to many different terrier breeds. Loved the Pats and always wanted a Jadge but they are to big for earths over here. 

Quit digging at 60 yrs old. That was...:-o 9 yrs ago. 

Got my first working line GSD almost 11 yrs ago. Still around and the best dog I've ever owned. 
Working line GSD #2 is a happy go lucky clown with a dark side. He's 6+.


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

I couldn't imagine trying one of those show bred dogs,people here just go for the tried and tested worker to worker bred dogs.

I couldn't see any show bred dog lasting 12+ hours and I've known of a couple that have been below for as long as 3 days.

though there was a man call Brian Plummer who I read trained a king charles spaniel to go to ground,so you can probably get most small breeds going to ground with enough work and patience.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

shane beanhard said:


> I couldn't imagine trying one of those show bred dogs,people here just go for the tried and tested worker to worker bred dogs.
> 
> I couldn't see any show bred dog lasting 12+ hours and I've known of a couple that have been below for as long as 3 days.
> 
> though there was a man call Brian Plummer who I read trained a king charles spaniel to go to ground,so you can probably get most small breeds going to ground with enough work and patience.


I agree about the show line but I have had a few that did an excellent job in the show ring and also in the grouond. My male Border in particular. 

As to Plummer's experiment withthe KCs. I do believe many small breeds can be taught to go to grouond but that doesn't mean they will truly work the quarry with any real abilities. 

Brian Plummer is the man responsible for the Patterdale. He was the first one to actually name them as a breed. Most of his lines were black, short coated Fells terriers. It's said that the Patterdale has a bit of bullbreed in their background. Not a popular thing to do because they would often work silently. That becaame a non problem with the advent of the locator collar. 
Here in the States the Pats were just referred to a black dogs or black fells for a long time until the Patterdale name became popular with the hunting set. The Patterdale can also be liver colored and also rough coated.
Here in the States they are also used as weight pull dogs when crossed with a Pit. It creates another small weight class and they do well. Often referred to as Pittypats......honest! :lol:


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

They definitely do have bull in them,in the north west were their from small black bulldogs were common in the past.

I think Plummer was a bit of an eccentric weirdo tbh,he did create a line of russel that he called the plummer terrier but from what I hear he was no terrier man.

'Pittypat'


http://s1054.photobucket.com/user/s...140714_120043_zpsba7ead78.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I got my Brits crossed. 
Your correct about Plummer and the Plummer terrier. 

I mistakenly said Brian Plummer as the originator of the Patterdale. I have a couple of his books. 
"Tales of a Rat Hunting Man" is a fun read. 
Plummer terriers are basically a larger, primarily brown bodied JRT with a bit of Beagle in there. 
Your also correct about Plummer not being a terrier man. 
Showman would better fit what I've been told of him. 


It was Brian Nuttal that was responsible for the Patterdale. 8-[

His dogs came down from Cyril Breay and Frank Buck.


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

Well Plummer never let the truth get in the way of a good story lol

it actually wouldn't have surprised me if he claimed to have invented the patterdale,it just wasn't one I'd heard before.

I can't remember what book it's in but he goes through what breeds make up the Plummer,There's russel,fell,beagle and staff if memory serves.

he wanted his breed to be it's distinct breed so that it would live on after him,not just as a strain of russel that would soon be absorbed and forgotten about.

From what I hear they're quite good above ground.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I understand that also. No doubt though it will still be crossed by some to get that "better" dog. ](*,):lol: 

I have two of Plummer's books. 
"The Fell terrier" gives, from my understading, the factual history of many of the "old time" terrier men and the history behind their dogs. 

The other is "Tails of a Rat Hunting Man". Lots of stories you would expect from Plummer given his penchant for embellishing on stories. I laughed my ass off reading that one. 
That's one anyone that loves terriers should read.


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## shane beanhard (Aug 1, 2014)

I have most his books,when I was young and innocent I even believed most of what he wrote 

Nathan is a brilliant book,his best by a very long way.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

shane beanhard said:


> I have most his books,when I was young and innocent I even believed most of what he wrote
> 
> Nathan is a brilliant book,his best by a very long way.



I'll have to look that up!


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

David Harcombe has some good articles and books. Even though he is a little rough around the edges. He knows his earth dogs. He is more of a hunter then a writer. His book had no chapters just one long writing.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The name sounds familiar but I don't have any of his books. 

Possible that I've seen his name in one of my other books. I have a couple of them that discuss a number of terrier men from the early days till today.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> The name sounds familiar but I don't have any of his books.
> 
> Possible that I've seen his name in one of my other books. I have a couple of them that discuss a number of terrier men from the early days till today.


http://www.earthdog-runningdog.com/books-for-sale/


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks for that Ben.

Those dogs on those covers somehow look strangely familiar. :-o :lol:


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

THe terriers are larger on that side of that pond. Here they want them 4 or 5 pounds smaller.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Most of the holes in the States are dug by groundhogs and are about 6-7 inch diameter. They are used by fox, raccoon, possum, whatever. 

I have a number of friends that have hunted in GB and all say the dens over there are much larger simply because the fox are double the size of what we see here and the sets are very old and well used. 

The groundhogs are a lot "slimmer" then they appear so getting down a small hole is simple for them. 

Over here a 14-15 lb dog is about the max that you want for the average hole.


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