# Retrieve



## Nicole Keith (Jul 1, 2012)

My 17 month old GSD is 'started' in the retrieve. We have begun mouthing the objects he is told to hold. He can do a retrieve just fine but he's now jacking around with the objects. It smells like a poor foundation in the hold to me  

I trained it with markers to this point. 

Question is, go all the way back and teach a force retrieve and make it absolutely clear that it's non optional to mouth or stick with markers and try to work it out of him? 

My gut feeling is to go to forced before more and more bad habits have arisen. Thought I would ask though. 
\\/


----------



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't believe a forced is needed. What to do nexts depends on where you are in the whole thing. if the hold is always sketchy go back to just that. Work more on the holding alone. If the mouth part is only on an actual retrieve I would immediately end the exercise the instant the hold falls apart after picking up the object and mark it if it is picked up and held firm even for a fraction of a second or a foot of movement


----------



## Nicole Keith (Jul 1, 2012)

Thanks for the thoughts. That's what I was looking for. I appreciate it.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Separate the hold from the actual full retrieve. Keep the retrieve fun/motivational and in drive and put whatever compulsion (have to) on the hold part.


----------



## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

what if he holds it when he gets back and sits for you. But chews it on the way back?


----------



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

I just finished training my 20 month old for Open and he will compete in 3 weeks. When I first began the retrieve with him he was mouthy I think just from the excitement of the throw and retrieve. He would even tackle the dumbbell, play pounce on it before picking it up and returning with it. I ignored it because I did not want to ruin his enthusiasm. I worried if that was the right decision. As it turned out my decision was perfect for this dog. Just by daily working with the dumbbell exercises he settled down, lost the mouthing first and soon after the playful pickups but more importantly kept his enthusiasm for the exercise with fast go outs and returns. This dog is a joy to watch in the ring and I have been told that by many people at show n goes.


----------



## Nicole Keith (Jul 1, 2012)

Thanks guys! Thomas - you always have good insight. I read a lot of your stuff. 

In reply to the question about when he's mouthing, it's kind of random and can be on the 'hold' part and the 'retrieve' part as well. 

I considered if his lips got pinched at any point as well...I thought maybe this would possibly make him a bit more uptight about the situation thus causing more mouthing. 

Vicki, great insight. I think that's exactly where I am with it. It's been so fun for him and he sees the thing and goes nuts.... if he's in a sit when I give it and I help him a bit he will hold for a long time and not mouth. That leads me to believe that over excitement could be the cause like you said. 

Thanks a ton. I think I'll just go out in the back yard and work it every day for a couple of minutes a few times and separate like you said Thomas. See how a week or two goes with that approach. 

Thanks for not murdering me with my own stupidity


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

What Thomas said! Break the retrieve down to as many behaviors as you can. Get them solid! When you put them together you'll be surprised how easy it can go.


----------



## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Split the exercise in steeps. drive object visible for the dog,first take,second hold,third move in,move in from side,take from other person,take from ground.

here on example ,all done in six training days

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgeWSutzjrc&feature=player_embedded


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Stefan Schaub said:


> Split the exercise in steeps. drive object visible for the dog,first take,second hold,third move in,move in from side,take from other person,take from ground.
> 
> here on example ,all done in six training days
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgeWSutzjrc&feature=player_embedded


is the reward a ball or? Your offering it from your mouth or under your chin? Cool video ...


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Nicole Keith said:


> My 17 month old GSD is 'started' in the retrieve. We have begun mouthing the objects he is told to hold. He can do a retrieve just fine but he's now jacking around with the objects. It smells like a poor foundation in the hold to me
> 
> I trained it with markers to this point.
> 
> ...


One way to solve this would be to let the dog take the object from you on the line and then walk around with him carrying it. Whilst moving the dogs normally hold the object well. Walk with him at heel, run with him at heel. Stop with him by your side and out the object. Give him the object, walk and then increase speed maybe (or not). Eventually let him come in front of you so that you can take the object. Take this step by step!!

The idea is - a dog in movement will (nearly) always hold the object.


----------



## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Brian Anderson said:


> is the reward a ball or? Your offering it from your mouth or under your chin? Cool video ...


yes it is a ball,drive object is the ball from chin or mouth.


----------



## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

gillian schuler said:


> one way to solve this would be to let the dog take the object from you on the line and then walk around with him carrying it. Whilst moving the dogs normally hold the object well. Walk with him at heel, run with him at heel. Stop with him by your side and out the object. Give him the object, walk and then increase speed maybe (or not). Eventually let him come in front of you so that you can take the object. Take this step by step!!
> 
> The idea is - a dog in movement will (nearly) always hold the object.


[-x[-x[-x[-x


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Stefan Schaub said:


> yes it is a ball,drive object is the ball from chin or mouth.


cool .. thanks for the video!


----------



## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

http://www.schutzhund-training.com/clicker_retrieve.html#hold


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> what if he holds it when he gets back and sits for you. But chews it on the way back?


When I increased the speed of the return, it helped my dog not to chew as much on the return.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Louise Jollyman said:


> http://www.schutzhund-training.com/clicker_retrieve.html#hold


Hey do the youtube vids show up for anyone else? They don't for me.


----------



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Hey do the youtube vids show up for anyone else? They don't for me.


Yes, but if you are trying to watch them off a mobile app they may not work for you though.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Nicole Stark said:


> Yes, but if you are trying to watch them off a mobile app they may not work for you though.


Thanks, they work now. Not sure what was going on before....](*,)


----------



## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

We start with back-chaining and use a dowel as the object to hold. We then attach a string to it and tug on it. if they are mouthy it will come out. They then get stress if they do this until they are holding calmly in the front position. We then back up and cause stress and reverse response reflex to speed up the return to front position. We then transition to the LC break-apart dumbell. The problem with teaching the retrieve as a retrieve is that if the dog is in prey and sees the object (dumb bell) as the reward then they will inevitably go out faster than they return to handler. You can already see this developing in the video posted above. If you stress the dog for chewing it will compound the problem. It is not easy work. However you have to remember the retrieve exercises are 40% of the points in an IPO routine. Which reminds me I better return to working on it.


----------



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Steve Burger said:


> We start with back-chaining and use a dowel as the object to hold. We then attach a string to it and tug on it. if they are mouthy it will come out. They then get stress if they do this until they are holding calmly in the front position. We then back up and cause stress and reverse response reflex to speed up the return to front position. We then transition to the LC break-apart dumbell. The problem with teaching the retrieve as a retrieve is that if the dog is in prey and sees the object (dumb bell) as the reward then they will inevitably go out faster than they return to handler. You can already see this developing in the video posted above. If you stress the dog for chewing it will compound the problem. It is not easy work. However you have to remember the retrieve exercises are 40% of the points in an IPO routine. Which reminds me I better return to working on it.


Steve this sounds like this is one part of LC "system" that hasnt changed thru the years is that a fair statement?


----------



## Nicole Keith (Jul 1, 2012)

OK, I took a few deep breaths and a few days to think about this. LOL. 

Then I decided to go metal and problem solved. Got a whisk out from the kitchen and he didn't do any of the jacking around with it, kicking it into his back teeth to chomp and no whining on it. This leads me to believe that there was a lip pinch or it's completely a bad habit caused by satisfaction from chewing on wood (he loves sticks). or just the hype surrounding the dumbbell. 

I used hard plastic no problem. It's the dumbbell and it's wood. Something either happened that was uncomfortable or he just doesn't want to hold it because he would rather chew and/or the heaviness of it. 

Thanks for all the ideas and videos and things.


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Stefan Schaub said:


> Split the exercise in steeps. drive object visible for the dog,first take,second hold,third move in,move in from side,take from other person,take from ground.
> 
> here on example ,all done in six training days
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgeWSutzjrc&feature=player_embedded


Very nice.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Brian Anderson said:


> is the reward a ball or? Your offering it from your mouth or under your chin? Cool video ...



I never want the dog to look at the dumbell as a reward OR a toy. It's the means to a reward. That may be food, ball, a game of tug, etc. My choice of reward is always a game of tug but that can sometimes depend on the dog.


----------



## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

brad robert said:


> Steve this sounds like this is one part of LC "system" that hasnt changed thru the years is that a fair statement?


 It has changed a bit but in essence still fairly similar. Most of us are using the e-collar for the stress, as well as low constant stims integrated into the system. In some ways it has gotten more sophisticated.


----------

