# Is this next for us?



## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

http://www.pawnation.com/2009/12/11/potentially-explosive-bbc-doc-on-purebreds-set-to-air-stateside/


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Great vid. If we keep our bad breeding practices up it could be


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## James Idi (Apr 19, 2009)

The difference between the older skulls and the modern are incredible, and down right scary.

Hopefully the confirmation crowd can be made to see the destructiveness of their practices, and the dogs can be allowed to prosper again through improved breeding practices.


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## Sue Miller (Jul 21, 2009)

I really don't know anything about breeding. I was talking about the media going after pure bred dogs--clumping them altogether--the good, the bad--all the same.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I seen this video and found it to be a real eye opener. I realized the conformation/show croud was ruining the GSD, but had no idea about the other breeds. It is sickening. I believe this video can only educate the general public about some of the breeds being ruined and to put some pressure on obsesive good looks (cough) conformation breeders.

What's up Sue?


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

My wife watched this on Friday night on BBC America. I didn't get to see it as I had to work but she gave me the details later. She said she was absolutely astonished at how poor breeding has affected so many different breeds of dogs, according to what she saw on the show. She said the thing that really put the bee in her bonnet, though, was how these owners/breeders would not even acknowledge that there were issues when confronted about them. The problems ranged from bad backs to gentic disorders that kept one King Charles spaniel in a constant state of pain. The vet on the program said that the condition this particular dog had was the equivilent of being hit by a stick constantly. The show went on to state that the English bulldogs have pretty much reached the point that they can't breed naturally anymore. The vet on the show pointed out that when it gets to that point that's nature's way of telling us that that particular dog doesn't need to breed. I'm hoping the show airs again soon so I can watch it for myself. The wife said it was very interesting but it just pisses you off.


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## Tiffany Compton (Oct 7, 2009)

I have an English Bulldog, she was a neglect/abuse rescue that I brought home almost 5 years ago.. She is very well bred and at one time cost someone a good bit of money. 

When I picked her up from the shelter they told me not to take her - That she was already past her life expectancy and that she wouldn't make it a year... She's now 12 1/2 and while she has certainly slowed down in the last year she has had relatively few health problems in comparison to a lot of the English Bulldogs that I see out there. She has no allergies, no palate or breathing issues, she only had shoulder surgery due to a pocket of infection that was due to an old injury, and even for a 12 1/2 year old English Bulldog she gets around fairly well... 

It is true that they really cannot safely be bred or give birth naturally, and quite a few health problems are involved with this breed, but I have also seen that the AKC's "solution" and it is to basically destroy this incredible breed! The AKC wants to change almost everything about this breed except the name and that breaks my heart.. It really is awful that so many people are willing to breed poor specimens of the English Bulldog just to turn a profit, and it is usually those puppies that have such awful breathing issues, but that is not the type of dog being produced by a reputable breeder. 

The problem is that people buy cheap dogs without doing enough research on the breeding of that dog... I do believe that some breeds are being hurt by the show style breeder, such as the GSD, but leave my English Bulldogs alone AKC!


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

it just sucks that most of the show dog world is so focused on appearance and aesthetics. if you look at most of the AKC standards theres pages and pages of physical specs on proportion, coat, teeth, bite alignment, decalws (who cares about dewclaws?!?!?!?!) and often no more than a couple sentences on health, temperament or working ability. 

its a shame that the show dog folks will put so much stock in some bullshit "design" with little consideration for the overall health and well being of the breed. i view most of these show dogs as nothing more than hollow shells. 

its like if i built myself a new 1911 type pistol, but only paid attention to the parts visible from the outside. the pistol would be f***ing worthless for anything but sitting around. just like most show dogs. ](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## James Idi (Apr 19, 2009)

> The problem is that people buy cheap dogs without doing enough research on the breeding of that dog...


And when you take that same principle and apply it to organizations such as the AKC, and all the other major conformation clubs, you have a big problem. 

It makes NO sense to set standards for appearance and NOT health when the sole purpose of the animal is looks. By failing to have realistic health standards as a requirement to get into the conformation circuit, they are significantly contributing to the destruction of the breeds.

While there are those that lack scruples in both communities, the working dog communities emphasis on working ability is a much sounder approach to breeding as health is a requirement for the work, and this is better for the breed in the long run.

I see nothing beneficial about breeding solely for "conformation".


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Sue Miller said:


> I really don't know anything about breeding. I was talking about the media going after pure bred dogs--clumping them altogether--the good, the bad--all the same.


They did show working line GSDs in a good light. The show sure makes you think though. All of the fluffy and designer dog problems and the reasons these breedings are happening, really makes me shake my head. 

The one thing this documentary didn't address was solutions. They more spotlighted the problems than anything. That sells media but still doesn't help fix things ... if it can be fixed.


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## Ashley Allstun (Aug 8, 2009)

I love the GSD judge. He thinks that the show line GSD is more anatomically correct and better structured for working. ](*,)


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

IMHO conformation is stupid...that said
I blame the judges who reward a ****ed up dog.
start rewarding quality dogs and people will breed for that
a sloped back is not good for a GSD, so why reward it?
you reward a slight slope and some moron breeds for a bigger one to get an advantage
if you penalize him he wont do it


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Tiffany Compton said:


> It is true that they really cannot safely be bred or give birth naturally, and quite a few health problems are involved with this breed, but I have also seen that the AKC's "solution" and it is to basically destroy this incredible breed! The AKC wants to change almost everything about this breed except the name and that breaks my heart.. It really is awful that so many people are willing to breed poor specimens of the English Bulldog just to turn a profit, and it is usually those puppies that have such awful breathing issues, but that is not the type of dog being produced by a reputable breeder.
> 
> The problem is that people buy cheap dogs without doing enough research on the breeding of that dog... I do believe that some breeds are being hurt by the show style breeder, such as the GSD, but leave my English Bulldogs alone AKC!



Ummm...they should have left well enough alone about 100 years ago? The crippled bulldogs with hypoplastic trachea, entropion of the eyelids, folded skin that can cause necrotizing dermatitis (yes, I saw a bitch with this right around her vulva, not just on the skin folds of her face, yowch!), elongated soft palate, hip dysplasia (something like 50% of English bulldogs radiographed for OFA are dysplastic) are all part and parcel of the breed. And since the English bulldog can no longer work (one that can sort of do agility is considered more a novelty than anything), show and pet breeders have no motivation to change. If people want a healthy looking bulldog-ish looking beast, I'd say try a Boston, American bulldog, or Staffie. 



> "The reports that they get are only from vets, and vets only see sick bulldogs," said Kevin Davis, a bulldog breeder in King's Lynn, England.
> "There's many -- loads of bulldogs walking around without any health problems at all."
> ​




OMG, that's the most effing hilarious thing I've seen all day. Literally *every single bulldog we see*, even those owned by vets and vet students that show up for wellness visits, have multiple things wrong with them. In fact, one of our deans and head anesthesiologists is fond of saying that the ultimate "practice builder" would be to randomly breed English bulldogs and give them out to the community for free. Hmmm...I better hone my artificial insemination and caesarean section technique! \\/
​


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

The rate of confirmed HD for AKC bulldogs is shameful and I believe currently represents the highest percentage of HD reported through the OFA at about 74% give or take. I am real pleased to see that number has changed for the better in just under the decade for the DDB. Reported statistics show a fairly appreciable improvement from about 80% down to around 55%.

Do you see many alternative bull breeds and if so what has your experience been with say the Victorian, Hermes, Renascence, Leavitt, Alu, catch all OEB's, Dorsett, Aussie, ABLE, etc?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

We don't get many of the spin off bulldog breeds around here. Seems like it might be more popular down South? Someone once told me that had an Alapaha, but it was also a shelter dog, so I am thinking it was probably an American bulldog cross or possible English bulldog cross. I've seen a couple Johnson/hybrid style ABs and one or two Scott style ABs, but just in social settings so far, not really in clinical settings. I know hip dysplasia is still a problem with them, and being somewhat related to pit bulls, I wonder if they have the same issues with demodex, allergies, and cruciate ruptures that pit bulls do. Still, I think I'd rather put up with an American bulldog's problems than an English bulldog's.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

" I believe currently represents the highest percentage of HD reported through the OFA at about 74% give or take."

these confirmation people are so selfish. if they cared about the breed at all they would alter the standard and breed away from whatever they been doing to get a giant HD rate like that. i would think that numbers like that would be enough for somebody in the OEB world to think "WTF are we doing wrong"


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Tiffany Compton said:


> It is true that they really cannot safely be bred or give birth naturally, and quite a few health problems are involved with this breed, but I have also seen that the AKC's "solution" and it is to basically destroy this incredible breed! The AKC wants to change almost everything about this breed except the name and that breaks my heart.. It really is awful that so many people are willing to breed poor specimens of the English Bulldog just to turn a profit, and it is usually those puppies that have such awful breathing issues, but that is not the type of dog being produced by a reputable breeder.
> 
> The problem is that people buy cheap dogs without doing enough research on the breeding of that dog... I do believe that some breeds are being hurt by the show style breeder, such as the GSD, but leave my English Bulldogs alone AKC!


That's an interesting take. I believe quite the opposite. The English Bulldog was never meant to look like that, and the standard that allows that is quite honestly an artificial one solely in place to create something that looks cute at the expense of health, much less performance. More so, it is disregarding the Bulldog's history and the standard it _should_ be living up to. If nothing else, the AKC is not doing nearly enough.

I do find it interesting you seem a bit appalled by what the show ring is doing to the German Shepherd, but are cool with what they've done to the Bulldog, and even seem against them trying to work towards a healthier version. I mean, these were dogs that were used to quite literally catch bulls and hunt and do farm work and stuff. More so, you see _that_ as destroying the English Bulldog? Not bagging on you, but I really could not respectfully disagree more.

-Cheers


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Adam Swilling said:


> I'm hoping the show airs again soon so I can watch it for myself. The wife said it was very interesting but it just pisses you off.


You can watch it on YouTube.


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

Kristen Cabe said:


> You can watch it on YouTube.


thanks for the info. I'll check it out.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Adam Swilling said:


> thanks for the info. I'll check it out.


And the link the OP supplied on page 1 will link to the video in its full unedited length. It is long 58 minutes but worth it. I just let it download over night even on a hi speed connection it takes forever.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> And the link the OP supplied on page 1 will link to the video in its full unedited length. It is long 58 minutes but worth it. I just let it download over night even on a hi speed connection it takes forever.


When I watched it on YouTube, it was split into several videos. I think I just did a search for Pedigree Dogs Exposed.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

What cracks me up is when you watch one of the dog shows on TV and the announcers fawn on and on about how this breed was "bred to work cattle on a farm" "protect sheepherders and their flock from wolves" "chase down and hold large game" when few of them can do anything but prance around the ring. Yeah, there are dogs that can still do what they were bred for, but they aren't the ones they are showing at Westminster.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Like a Yorkie .. I'd love to see one do what it was bred to do. You know being a ratter, I think that would be cool. But they are so far removed from that ... begs the question if the dogs natural instincts would kick in. 

Another comment from the video that sticks in my head. Was the Rhodesian Ridgeback breeder saying that it was the dogs with the Ridge that was best at hunting Lions .. I wonder where she got that info from? Same as the English Bulldog's skin folds were to take the blood of the bull away from the dogs eyes .. I call B.S!


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