# omega 3's and 6's



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Has anyone used REDPAW Fat Balancer for their dogs and were you happy w/ the result? Can anyone confirm whether or not this is a good source of healthy fatty acids for dogs? Would you use it and why or why not? Anything on the market cheaper (can I buy three different oils from the dollar store and make my own)? I "supplement" a raw diet w/ their kibble. I absolutely love the results. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks all who reply.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Got a link to the ingredients?


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

BTW, if your dog is on any normal diet (poultry, meat, etc.), the only EFA he's short on are long-chain 3s.

He doesn't need 6s (which are superabundant in poultry and big-ag red meat and even in soy products), and shorter-chain 3s (like from plant sources) are not particularly useful to dogs; they cannot convert them to DHA and EPA.

Many "balancing" oil supplements are BS, because of the the modern diet being overloaded with 6s and woefully short on long-chain 3s.

Long story short, virtually any dog on virtually any modern diet (commercial or raw) is short on long-chain 3s.

I.e., fish oil. 

If you use it as a search term, you'll find long detailed explanations here of how LC 3s are used, why SC3s are not very useful to dogs, and how the modern diet became deficient in 3s.

Also, why the dog needs vitamin E supplementation with oil supplements.





Post back if you can't find those threads and I'll dig 'em up.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

My guys get E, fish oil and flaxseed meal. I tend not to do combinations. I like to control the amounts and some of the formulas are just gimmicks w/ jacked up prices.


T


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> BTW, if your dog is on any normal diet (poultry, meat, etc.), the only EFA he's short on are long-chain 3s.
> 
> He doesn't need 6s (which are superabundant in poultry and big-ag red meat and even in soy products), and shorter-chain 3s (like from plant sources) are not particularly useful to dogs; they cannot convert them to DHA and EPA.
> 
> ...


Here are the ingredients and the ad from their website. I have read (not extensively) and am aware of some of the deficiencies of omega 3 oils (in people and animals) and of some of the associated detriments. I currently feed fish oil w/ a vit. E supplement. I'm certain I'm not giving enough however. Anyways, just wondering what was thought of the ingredients and if its a good investment. Thank you all for the comments/suggestions/ advice.


A blend of fats and oils providing your dog with the necessary fatty acids and sterols in the proper balance. These essential fatty acids maintain the functional integrity of cell membranes and are necessary for the proper immune and stress response. This blend of fat also aids in the digestion and metabolism of proteins and carbohydrates while yielding over *4000Kcal/Lb*.
*Features*


 Balanced fatty acid profile using a blend of fats and oils
 Liver digest for palatability and mineral content for optimal utilization
 Completeness of the fatty acid profile means you will feed less and get better results than any single source of fat
 Available in 3 Kilo (approx. 1 gallon) and 10 Kilo ( approx. 3 gallon) sizes.
*Ingredients*: Poultry Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, and citric acid), Coconut Oil, Fish Oil, Corn Oil, Canola Oil, Dried Liver Digest.
*Consistency*
Liquid at room temperature, hardens to peanut butter consistency at 32 degrees F, and to ice cream consistency below freezing.
*Supported feeding methods*


 Redpaw recommends that fat be fed separate from main meal to optimize metabolism.
 Make fat bars as training snacks: Pour liquid into ice cube trays and freeze. Roll in ground kibble to keep the bars from sticking together.
 Add to warm water for use as bait
 Scrape small shavings off of frozen fat to top dress feed









*Note:* Always mix before use when in liquid state. Use clean utensils to avoid contamination.
*Also available in a 3 Kilo (about 1 gallon) size.*





Food/Treats


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Unless I were feeding some very-low-fat diet that needed fat added (in which case I would add the fat I wanted to add, and not that mix, which, as Terrasita points out, costs just for the "formulation" and packaging and marketing), then what I would do would be to give a gram of fish oil (there's about 4.75 grams to a teaspoon) per ten pounds of dog, and d-alpha (rather than dl-alpha) vitamin E to the tune of about 400 IU for a 50-80-pound dog. 

So a 70-pound dog, say, would get 7 grams of fish oil (or about a scant 1.5 teaspoons) plus a 400 IU gelcap of d-alpha E (with mixed tocopherols if you can).

I would completely skip paying money for this: _Poultry Fat, Coconut Oil, Fish Oil, Corn Oil, Canola Oil, Dried Liver Digest_ because I would rather not pay fish oil money for poultry fat, corn oil(!), or canola oil. (Remember that even the shorter-chain 3s in canola are not very useful to dogs, even though humans can convert a tiny percentage of them to the valuable EPA and DHA we need.)

The product would have to be pretty close to free for me to buy something with poultry fat in top place, and I don't want to give corn oil, even free. 



JMO!


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I'd also be careful about Rosemary---seizures. I'm surprised they add that. Agree with Connie on the poultry fat and the other stuff which is just cheap junky stuff additives.

T


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I'd also be careful about Rosemary---seizures. I'm surprised they add that. Agree with Connie on the poultry fat and the other stuff which is just cheap junky stuff additives.
> 
> T


Thank you ladies for the information. I had my reserves about the poultry fat as the first ingredient, but wasn't all that turned off by it. If I'm feeding a "cheap" kibble which is sometimes necessary I can add it w/o too much worry. The corn oil is a bit of a turn off, but thought it wouldn't be too harmful if not listed in the top 3 ingredients. Ah well, should have stuck to "...the first 5 ingredients listed..." 

So on that note where can I find the best, cheapest (in price not quality) source of fish oil to feed? I'm sure that's a thread on here somewhere. Please direct me to it. Also, if there is a thread that addresses the rosemary causing seizures I'd definitely like to see that. Had no idea it was that harmful. Thank you ladies for your guidance and knowledge.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Zakia Days said:


> Thank you ladies for the information. I had my reserves about the poultry fat as the first ingredient, but wasn't all that turned off by it. If I'm feeding a "cheap" kibble which is sometimes necessary I can add it w/o too much worry. The corn oil is a bit of a turn off, but thought it wouldn't be too harmful if not listed in the top 3 ingredients. Ah well, should have stuck to "...the first 5 ingredients listed..."
> 
> So on that note where can I find the best, cheapest (in price not quality) source of fish oil to feed? I'm sure that's a thread on here somewhere. Please direct me to it. Also, if there is a thread that addresses the rosemary causing seizures I'd definitely like to see that. Had no idea it was that harmful. Thank you ladies for your guidance and knowledge.


I'm not turned off by chicken fat for dogs. Heck no. Fresh fat is great!

But I'm not paying "balancing oil" money for chicken fat. :lol: Not only that, but it's very likely to be rendered and quite possibly rancid. 

If you link me to the fish oil you are using, I can tell you how good/bad/indifferent the ingredients are. (Briefly, you want a named fish, and I want that named fish to be low in heavy metals, like salmon and the small fish [anchovies, sardines, etc.]). There are some super-high-quality fish oils that subscribe to a handling monograph, like Nordic and Carlson's, and I do buy those for myself, but for the dogs, who actually love un-deodorized fish oil, I care mainly about the named fish and the sniff test (for rancidity). 

I doubt that you want gelcaps unless your dog is small. If you do have gelcaps, you might want to pierce one and smell it. That cap can hide a lot. 

Rancid oil is not just "not as good." It's a carcinogen.

So link us to what you have. It's probably fine. (No need to copy and paste stuff here ... just a link to the web site is fine.)


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

About rosemary oil extract and seizures: This is pretty common knowledge, I think. I believe I've read of seizures triggered only in small dogs, so far, and as I recall it was first seen in Yorkies, but to me that just suggests that maybe a larger amount would be required in a larger dog. 

University of Maryland Medical Center did a paper on it very recently (2010, I believe) and concluded that no one (they were talking about humans) should ingest rosemary oil extract, "a neurotoxin." I post it here because of their verbiage; if Yorkies have had seizure events related to it and UMMC calls it a neurotoxin, I want to avoid it in dog edibles.

Here's the first one that popped up with a quicky search: http://www.ehow.com/how_4809671_homemade-food-dogs-seizures.html

There are hundreds of returns if you google it.


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I'm not turned off by chicken fat for dogs. Heck no. Fresh fat is great!
> 
> But I'm not paying "balancing oil" money for chicken fat. :lol: Not only that, but it's very likely to be rendered and quite possibly rancid.
> 
> ...



The website of the fish oil pills is www.21stcenturyvitamins.com. I bought it from the pharmacy and share them w/ the dogs. It's manufactured by "21st Century Healthcare Inc. located in Arizona somewhere. Container says each pill is 1000mg and is made from fish body oil. Each "serving" provides 300mg of EPA n' DHA. I've ruptured the gelcap in the past and it smells like plain ol' fish oil. Not like rancid garbage. Bottle does not list the fish used. Thanks again.


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Zakia Days said:


> The website of the fish oil pills is www.21stcenturyvitamins.com. I bought it from the pharmacy and share them w/ the dogs. It's manufactured by "21st Century Healthcare Inc. located in Arizona somewhere. Container says each pill is 1000mg and is made from fish body oil. Each "serving" provides 300mg of EPA n' DHA. I've ruptured the gelcap in the past and it smells like plain ol' fish oil. Not like rancid garbage. Bottle does not list the fish used. Thanks again.


Oops! I take that back. It does list the fishes used and they look like the right ones.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Zakia Days said:


> The website of the fish oil pills is http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/omega-3s-6s-20570/www.21stcenturyvitamins.com. I bought it from the pharmacy and share them w/ the dogs. It's manufactured by "21st Century Healthcare Inc. located in Arizona somewhere. Container says each pill is 1000mg and is made from fish body oil. Each "serving" provides 300mg of EPA n' DHA. I've ruptured the gelcap in the past and it smells like plain ol' fish oil. Not like rancid garbage. Bottle does not list the fish used. Thanks again.


To link us to a product, go to the actual product page and give us that URL.

For example, one of their fish oil products is http://www.21stcenturyvitamins.com/products.asp?i=429&c=3&sc=12

And another of their fish oils is
http://www.21stcenturyvitamins.com/products.asp?i=329&c=3&sc=12

And some more here http://www.21stcenturyvitamins.com/category.asp?c=3


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Zakia Days said:


> Oops! I take that back. It does list the fishes used and they look like the right ones.


Good!


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Good!


This is the one I use: 

http://www.21stcenturyvitamins.com/products.asp?i=329&c=3&sc=12

So far, so good. Sorry about posting the entire page. I'm still learning this new age technology crap. I will be more mindful of this in the future. 

I'd also like to know how people who feed their highly active dogs decipher feedings. I'd like to wait 4hrs after meals to exercise (pretty intense), but work and other situations, more often than not, don't lend themselves to this regimen. Normally, I feed the night before. Work the dogs the following a.m. Sometimes they look good, sometimes not. I can say that the dogs never look as crisp after eating (no matter the time) as they do before being fed. I can always tell the difference btwn when the dog has eaten a few hrs earlier and when the dog has not eaten, before exercise. Still trying to find the right "rhythm" to feeding an active dog. Any sled dog people on here that can kind of point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance for the advise/comments/suggestions.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

You might want to make a new thread for that question, not labelled "Omega 3s and 6s."


----------

