# Prizes and Prize money at events???



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

is this against the rules, frowned upon? or just nobody does it that much cause they cant afford to?

what about giving out prizes, dog related products, etc...or even prize money? something substantial or even just return of entry fees??? legal? illegal? terrible idea? if so, why??

thinking out loud...

might make a difference in turn out, might not..but why would refunding entry fees at a minimum or more, or giving choice of prize off of raffle table, be a bad thing?


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Probably depends on the who is hosting the event and whether the club or org involved has anything prohibiting prize money etc. Pretty much all of the actions you mentioned are normal at dog races here. I don't think it will make much of a difference to turn out unless you get into higher dollar figure monetary prizes. Alot of races have prize money down to a certain finishing place and return of entry fee for race finishers.
I have never seen anyone be offended by prize money or a chance to pick something from a prize table. Usually donating items to prize table is seen as good pr or advertising for vendors. We do the same at symposiums - entry fee gives you a number of tickets and a random draw at the end of the event gives you a chance to pick a prize off of the prize table. There are always alot of dog related things from dog gear, dog food, supplements but as prizes are donated often from local businesses there can be things as diverse as large cheese trays, maple syrup and cases of motor oil (which was very handy consdiering some of the dog trucks I have driven...) Everybody likes freebies and have never seen anyone refuse one.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I have heard of a few trials that have had money. Some people have said that decoys and handlers get together and split the money. Im not sure about that. 
I would love to have cash up but usually I cant even cover the cost of a judge and 2 decoys let alone pay prize money.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Sometimes money brings the worse out of people.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i would imagine you could break it down to a matter of setting priorities for organization and promotion
- the more difficult to organize the less priority will go to promotion if there isn't enuff time to do it
- organizers want a well run event
- promoters wanna make a buck; which shouldn't be looked at as a bad thing if it helps the sports grow
- you will never make money off of ticket sales so you need to expand on the sponsor side and get some media attention, even if it has to start with low budget "social media", which seems to be expanding in many of the less known sport areas
- organizers think of the nuts and bolts and promoters think outside the advertising box. you need both imo
- making rules against prizes would seem like a self defeating purist attitude that would only restrict growth. if you want it to grow you have to expand the market appeal of dog sports, and the bite sports will always have a tuff time fighting the PC opposition

- imagination is the key, but if you can get Red Bull or ESPN interested, you're probably be guaranteed growth and financial success 

- the only dog sports i've seen make it into TV have been the fly ball comps or the wonder dog weird obstacle course stuff, but neither seemed to get very popular and they aren't shown here any more :-(


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> something substantial or even just return of entry fees???


Often, the "substantial" is a goal realized, expectations exceeded, or time/effort and a long term plan come to fruition.

I realize that you like to look at things from all angles but for me this is a no brainer. Keep it simple. Use the Maslow's heirarchy in this business model (of sort) and you should be set. JMO.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Legally, if you place in the top 3 for a division in Dock Dogs for a national level event, they make you fill out a W-9. At least they have this year. For club events, they don't, though it's usually just enough to cover the cost of entry fees.


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## Craig Snyder (May 7, 2012)

I know you want ot maximize profit, but you might want to consider having some non-profits come in and actually run individual events. I.e have an agility club do the agility, another dog club do the flyball, another dock divinig. Let them handle their particular area and collect the monies and fees, do the paperwork and provide the awards. You as site owner might control certain aspects or set certain requirements, such as a minimum number of entries or else the group has to pay a rental fee to you for the use of the site.

You as site owner then make your money from all the side things. Vendor table rental, food sales (or a % of food sales, get local non-profits to run those too, like a local dance team, a boy scout troop, etc). Issue parking passes to competitors and maybe charge two bucks for non-competitors to park. Sell water for a profit. etc..

Just some ideas. Soemtimes it's best to let others do what they do best and you just skim a percrentage off it.

Craig


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Maren

That is always a sore spot for me. I have always been a competitor in something, lately a drag racer and cutting horse rider. If you win over $1000 they want to send your stuff to the IRS, but just try and deduct a $25000 comp motor or $20000 worth of horse training expenses! Sure fire audit!


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

I agree with Mario except of saying "sometimes" I'd say all the time it brings out the worse. I'd like to believe it would not only save the sport but enhance it if done correctly. I believe the protection sports are diminishing & something must change. The lack of youth involvement is a serious problem in the U.S. 
JMHO


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Years ago, clubs in Switzerland used to hand out trophies with the name of the club and trial date on it. These could vary in size and price. Very often the 1, 2, and 3 winners would receive a "silver" cup with the rank on it.

Then came the era with a small present for each competitor, i.e. something useful for the dog, such as small tugs, water bowls, etc. If lucky, a sponsor could be engaged to sponser dog food.

Salamis, smoked hams, etc. are still a welcome prize.

At my club, we don't give out prizes but donate a large cup or GSD mounted on a block and the winner of protection, obedience or tracking can keep it for a year. Mostly a club member will buy this and give it to the club with his or her specifications of what the winning team must achieve.

Tombolas are popular at the Summer trials (obedience and protection only) or at the disciplines that do not involve protection work.

I think, as Nicole said, that the "glory" of winning is prize enough!!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I can imagine that it could present some issues..

Plenty of the PP events offer cash, I also have been to a few that I felt were rigged...or judged very very poorly, in the favor of event host's "club members" or "clients"... usually it is in the range of 500-1000, often split amongst a few placements.

I think some of the issue for certain sports is that people often hold trials as a convenient opportunity for their own club dogs to compete, and that could cause some conflict I imagine, even if judged fairly..

We gave away a brand new bite suit once as a top prize. turned out to be a very small event, never did figure out if the prize could have actually contributed to the smaller entries, like some people got scared off, thinking there might be better competitors...

I was just thinking, would be nice to at least give some entry fees back for certain things, give a little back to the competitors...



Maren Bell Jones said:


> Legally, if you place in the top 3 for a division in Dock Dogs for a national level event, they make you fill out a W-9. At least they have this year. For club events, they don't, though it's usually just enough to cover the cost of entry fees.


what kind of prize money is there at these big events? who pays it? the organization? or do they have hosting "clubs" that pay it out?


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

And here all this time I thought getting a score in your book was what this was about!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Keith Jenkins said:


> And here all this time I thought getting a score in your book was what this was about!




I understand that for certain types of dog activities prizes or money may not be a big hit, or even not legal.

Was asking about all types of dog "events" not just one "dogsport" in particular...

More so as a way to give something back to a worthy competitor, than to entice someone to compete..I would have to think some people would appreciate that, maybe not though who knows.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Usually with competition trials first 3 places get a little price and a bag of food.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

we try to give away trophies that are worth looking at. Big cups, Glass bowls, Hand tooled collars etc. I like trophies and its always nice to have another one to add to your cabinet.
Problem is most dog trophies are either a GSD or something wierd. No Mal trophies.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Keith Jenkins said:


> And here all this time I thought getting a score in your book was what this was about!


yep!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> we try to give away trophies that are worth looking at. Big cups, Glass bowls, Hand tooled collars etc. I like trophies and its always nice to have another one to add to your cabinet.
> Problem is most dog trophies are either a GSD or something wierd. No Mal trophies.


If you ever do laser engraved glass or lazered or sublimated plaques, you can do Mals. 

there is surely not much variety in dogs for trophy figures.... pigs and cows...tons...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> If you ever do laser engraved glass or lazered or sublimated plaques, you can do Mals.
> 
> there is surely not much variety in dogs for trophy figures.... pigs and cows...tons...



I did glass etchings and sculpture for prizes when I belonged to the Kerry Blue Club and Sculpture when I belonged to Missouri Earth Dogs. 
The glass etching was fairly quick and easy. The sculptures took a lot of time because I made silicone molds and resin castings off of my originals.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> what kind of prize money is there at these big events? who pays it? the organization? or do they have hosting "clubs" that pay it out?


It depends on the event. I think the most I've ever won is like $50, so not like real high dollar. But I only do just extreme vertical too.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

There are money prizes for herding in AKC, ASCA and USBCHA has some big money events like Meeker.

T


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

IMO

Forget about prize money. It will never pay for anyones expenses and cheapens the process. At our last trial (where Flann got his IPO I.) I got a nice trophy with a mold of a dog paw and a plaque
giving trial date and IPO I
The club traveling trophy is a custom made SchH III DB made with two different kinds of wood. Tugs and leashes etc. are good
prizes and can usually be donated. I like different stuff. The last thing I want or need is another trophy with a GSD on top to gather dust ;-)


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Keith Jenkins said:


> And here all this time I thought getting a score in your book was what this was about!


Spot on! But only for the more serious of the competitors and they usually don't exceed the "just for fun and exercise" competitors.

Most people laugh at them but they contribute greatly to the club's finances and allow the "scorers", ie. those who want to attend the qualifiers for WUSV, Mondio, Malinois championships, etc. National championships, etc. to choose from various trials.


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## Karen Havins (Apr 22, 2012)

Are you talking about just going for and titling? Or in an event where you are actually placing?

With our breed, we do awards...for conformation it's a flat ribbon for aged classes, then a larger Rosette for a best of sex and for Best of Sex Classic/Standard they got a larger rosette and a medal. 
In the IronDog we had only 6 awards are needed, we did Trophies, medal and a rosette for that. 

I can't imagine not giving at least something for those that came out. We went more than we should have however. 
Sponsorships are actually fairly easy to get if you go about it the right way, though I personally don't like getting dog food for myself unless Orijen happens to sponsor!

Prize money would be a nice extra, but lets face it, the majority of the time, the people that are putting on the event have a hard enough time paying for flights, hotels, awards, facilities, port-a-potties (if needed) all the office supplies needed, tons of paper...etc etc. Most can't afford prize money on top of that. With the show horses prize money can be pretty substantial, so that can bring out the people who are interested, but most dog folks just can't afford it. 

I like the ideas of Perpetual Trophies, but I have heard it doesn't do well in the dog world because they weren't getting them back. 
In the horse world it would be unheard of not to bring it back..but we also get brass plaques to add the horses name to the base of the trophy which makes it fun.


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## Karen Havins (Apr 22, 2012)

Forgot to add...

we are doing something a little different at next March's Battle of the Bulls Texas...we have gotten very expensive towels (20+ each) on sale here, in cream...we are going to embroider the event on every towel and give those as trophies. 
(When I say we got them on sale...we got enough for 4 shows and it was 93 dollars!!)

Something a little different, dog folks will hopefully keep the towels with the dog gear and it will advertise our show a bit!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Karen Havins said:


> Are you talking about just going for and titling? Or in an event where you are actually placing?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


What did you mean by....you went more than you should have? please explain...thanks...

Perpetual trophies I can see working in some instances, and in others not gonna work. I worked in awards shop for a few years and still do occasionally help out, cant even count how many perpetual trophies I had to repair or re-make...great idea for some things, bad idea for others..



problem for getting "real" sponsorship in my opinion is "bang for the buck". Lots of people want to help out and support working dog events, but many companies look at sponsorship in the way of actual advertising, and are weighing the benefits to them. 

I always review sponsorship info for any event I can find.
Most packages are pretty weak in regards for tangible benefits for sponsors, in the big scope of things, other than being supportive and feeling good. Some are better than others...

thanks for the embroidery idea....we should probably get a machine for that too....


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## shawn murace (Feb 20, 2007)

I've seen the AKC give out prizes such as a cactus lamp or a plate with a sunset scene. Anything and everything they use. Prize money is good but usually not enough to write home about. 

Even when I had sponsorship for drag racing it was always for parts, hotels and sometimes entry fees. When I was a handler for the Seiger Shows it was also for hotels and gas. I paid for food...usually. I never received money. Although I know some that can make thousands in a weekend. When the cash is coming from folks flying in on their own helicopter, money is nothing. 

I've seen prizes for participants such as bone shaped tags with a club logo. Plastic ID tags with a logo or the event. I have some from the Iditarod that has the logo on one side, the dogs letter and number designation and depending on the color of the tag, it denotes the year of the race. The Iditarod committee also have belt buckles for finishers. Stickers are also a cheap alternative. Stickers are also a good marketing tool as well.


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## Karen Havins (Apr 22, 2012)

More than we should have...in other words, for wins, they got a medal in addition to the large rosette and a class win ribbon.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

shawn murace said:


> I've seen the AKC give out prizes such as a cactus lamp or a plate with a sunset scene. Anything and everything they use. Prize money is good but usually not enough to write home about.
> 
> Even when I had sponsorship for drag racing it was always for parts, hotels and sometimes entry fees. When I was a handler for the Seiger Shows it was also for hotels and gas. I paid for food...usually. I never received money. Although I know some that can make thousands in a weekend. When the cash is coming from folks flying in on their own helicopter, money is nothing.
> 
> I've seen prizes for participants such as bone shaped tags with a club logo. Plastic ID tags with a logo or the event. I have some from the Iditarod that has the logo on one side, the dogs letter and number designation and depending on the color of the tag, it denotes the year of the race. The Iditarod committee also have belt buckles for finishers. Stickers are also a cheap alternative. Stickers are also a good marketing tool as well.


Thanks for the input.

we have ability to sublimate (print on various media), screenprint, and cut vinyl currently...also can produce own awards at wholesale cost.


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