# Avg. Training Time



## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

OK I know I'm not the greatest of OB trainers but I know there are some on here. So I'll ask the question of your average training time for the average DOG. I had someone tell me that she was paying a guy 700$. 
He promised to have her GSD trained in two weeks sitting, downing, long down, heeling (competiton heeling) recall with sit. And to have him doing it off lead as well. So I'm asking what are some you folks average training time to have a dog doing this.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Most BASIC obedience classes are anywhere from 6 to 12 weeks. Depending on the dog's age/handler expierience/trainer some could be ready for AKC novice obedience with that training. 
I wouldn't look at any trainer that claims to have that level of off lead obedience in two weeks time. 
Yes, a trainer could have a dog "under control" in that time but I wouldn't expect it to transfer to someone that doesn't have the knowledge to keep it going. That's my beef with someone telling people "I'll train your dog for xxxx$$$ in two weeks time". 
My fav "trick" when I taught basic OB was to take the most obnoxious dog from the handler on the first night and having it sit or down in mins. 
That had nothing to do with my skills but everything about that (usually spoiled) dog that had no idea what it could get away with with this "strange guy". That "control" absolutely didn't mean the dog was trained. It was just responding to someone that didn't overeact to its antics.


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## Mike Smith (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi Patrick
_"I can train any dog in 5 minutes. It's training the owner that takes longer." - Barbara Woodhouse_ 

I would have thought the fun in training is learning about yourself and the dog all within the training system, it seems a bit like having a very good fast Car and giving it to someone else to drive:-o


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

First off, I would never hand my dog off to someone to train. I have seen too much crap happen that way to ever let someone do that to my dog. Its not even about wanting to do it myself, its about me actually liking my dog enough to not put them through that kinda crap.

Second, I can teach a dog those things very quickly too, but it would not be the best way to teach the dog. I've actually met quite a few trainers who like to do quick turnaround on obedience by compulsioning the dog very harshly and unfairly to teach the OB, then in the last few days they use a ball or food to perk up the dog so he doesn't look dejected and unhappy.

Ofcourse, you gotta act happy and use a squeeky voice when you're making the dog squeel on corrections so it doesnt look as abusive to people who might be watching.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Understanding our situation is a bit different, but in three weeks, I fully expect heel, sit, down, recall etc from 30 feet. That includes the confidence course as well. It's a primary objective before we can proceed with controlled aggression training. It's supervised instruction, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

DFrost


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I would have to say it depends on the dog. Also I would never come out and say, it would take pounding on a dog to accomplish in 2 weeks. If the dog has food or toy drive, you don't need much if any compulsion to accomplish these tasks. I had my 12 week old pup siting, heeling, downing and here in 3 days consistantly and with not a drop of compulsion. She is just a willing learner and will do anything for food or her kong. 

If it is in house, the trainer can work with the dog doing reps 10 times a day if need be. I only did it once a day for 2 days and then stepped it up to 2-3 times daily for my pup and she snapped right to it the next session, even just the second one.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

There is a huge difference in doing it 8x5 vs a few sessions of a few minutes per day like many of us do. A young adult dog should certainly be able to heel, sit, down and recall in 80 hours of training, even with minimal obedience training prior to that. Dogs that get that kind of training are also not being judged on an obedience field, so a sit that isn't quite straight, a heel with less than perfect attention, and a recall that doesn't end in a perfect front are not issues. Those dogs have a different kind of job to do and as long as they can do the task reliably, that is all that matters. Same with bitework. How many K9 cops care if their dog has a full deep schutzhund quality bite, or if it just bites the guy. None of the one's I know care, it's about getting the job done, not making it look pretty. 

I've found with my dog (who is 3) that he can learn a new task in a couple minutes, and then it will take several hours (divided into sessions of 5-10 minutes) to perfect that task to where he's doing it reliably and up to the standard I expect. At this point I'm having to unlearn things he got accustomed to in order to reach our obedience goals. Dumbell retrieve is frustrating because for 3 years when he would bring back a ball, he'd drop it at my feet (from teaching him with 2 balls). Now we're unlearning that and it's taking a lot of time.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> OK I know I'm not the greatest of OB trainers but I know there are some on here. So I'll ask the question of your average training time for the average DOG. I had someone tell me that she was paying a guy 700$.
> He promised to have her GSD trained in two weeks sitting, downing, long down, heeling (competiton heeling) recall with sit. And to have him doing it off lead as well. So I'm asking what are some you folks average training time to have a dog doing this.


Patrick to put an average on that isn't real. Like people, each dog or puppy is different. Some dogs want to please and it goes quickly while some are so dominate that the obedience lesson can be a war! As far as the cost, paying more isn't a sign of getting your monies worth. It could be a sign of a stupid owner..."come and get me!"

Some private lessons can be $50.00 per day and at that rate part of that is a kennel fee. I charge $2.00 per minute for herding lessons, average fee is $35.00 per 15 minute session. A dog's attention span isn't an hour long...

More is in no way a sign of getting better instruction. Shop around or cry over fast mistakes and a screwed up dog.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Patrick.

It takes three days to really teach a dog OB. You gotta start practicing buddy.


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Jeff said:
Patrick.
It takes three days to really teach a dog OB. You gotta start practicing buddy

LoL Well I asked average because I know it can vary for each dog. I guess my biggest problem with the conversation she and I had was the guy said you'll have the PERFECT DOG. I've had a couple of dogs OB trained by others who I felt were much better than I and both times it was a 5 to 6 week deal. But to be honest I have never seen one doing all that off lead and "PERFECT" in two weeks. And at that price lol I'm sure I could give her what she'll get in a two week time frame. But I wouldn't pay that for it. After seeing dogs that people paid THOUSANDS for and it was supposed to be a top level dog fall apart in a trial. When you say perfect dog to me my HACKLES go up.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I would just like to clarify my previous post:



> I had someone tell me that she was paying a guy 700$.
> He promised to have her GSD trained in two weeks sitting, downing, long down, heeling (competiton heeling) recall with sit. And to have him doing it off lead as well.


To do all this, and off lead, with the amount of reward-free consistency that I expect from a dog that is "obedience trained", I cannot see this happening in 2 weeks.

What I can see in 2 weeks is a dog that is started in obedience, or has a foundation in obedience that can then be continued until the dog is "perfect". But come on, 2 weeks to teach any average dog the equivelent of a BH without showing the dog a ball before starting OB?

I can teach a dog to do all those things in a short period of time too. It took me 3 minutes to teach "sit", but if I'm 50ft away and I tell the dog to sit, the dog ain't gonna sit. There is "obedience trained" and "started in obedience." People who charge $700 to do 2 weeks of obedience and promise perfect results... sorry, but I don't care who they are, when there is money and a promise of speed involved, I am willing to bet you a whole $5 bucks that when the dog is 7 days in and not learning at the pace they were hoping for, they will be a whole lot less motivational and happy when they realize they have 7 days left to satisfy a client.


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

Patrick Cheatham said:


> OK I know I'm not the greatest of OB trainers but I know there are some on here. So I'll ask the question of your average training time for the average DOG.


_ I can get average dogs to sit, down & walk on lead in a few mins. However, for thoses behaviors to be proofed & soild takes a few months of daily work of at least 2-3 ,15-30 min sessions per day._

_I'm a firm believer in gettimg help with issues or new behaviors/skills. But, I don't believe in giving a dog to someone else to train or title. I can't understand people that own a dog but won't train themselfs afterall isn't that why one gets a dog to interact with it._


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Basic on lead obedience can be taught in about 2 weeks+/-. And most folks with half a working brain can do this IF they themselves are disciplined. Here in lies the problem. Your dog is a dog! Your dog is an animal that you should be in control of all the time. Like kids, the dog is not your best BUD!!! 

As a pack leader, YOU should be clear with the lesson and the outcome YOU want. To say that basic OB can be done in a few hours and off lead...who are you kidding? Remember, keep lessons short, positive, and make them REWARDING. As a high school teacher, if my lessons were boring, the first thing that would happen is 50% of the kids would be asleep. 

Make the reward trigger timely, don't wait another 30 seconds for one more bark or one more sit. Reward on the positive effort at THAT time. 

Paying $700 to do something that most folks can do themself is crazy and makes no sense. If someone else is teaching YOUR dog, where do you think the BOND is now? It is always with the pack leader, the K9 teacher and NOT YOU...So why aren't you successful? Dah.................... Be the leader.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I've done some remarkable turn-arounds for behavior problems and putting OB on a dog in as little as 4 hours to 2 weeks. These were shelter dogs that were pending euthanasia and 3/4 of them were deemed adoptable after the training.

This was 8 hours a day, 7 days a week training.

Now in reality, (being a single mom with 3 dogs) I get in 1 or two productive training sessions per dog, per week besides the little bits of training in the morning and dinner time. My puppy is 11 months old. Nice recall, but can't sit and stay to save her little behind. I don't know where I'll find the time, but I need to step it up now that she's doing bitework.

The more you put into it, the more you get out of it.


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## J Ramanujam (Dec 30, 2007)

> I had someone tell me that she was paying a guy 700$.
> He promised to have her GSD trained in two weeks sitting, downing, long down, heeling (competiton heeling) recall with sit. And to have him doing it off lead as well.


I just hope she signed a contract on it... you know, just in case it doesn't pan out, she can get her money back...

However, honestly, I've never had a dog that -couldn't- do that after two weeks... carrying it out all in one go is a different story though. 

I.E. Sure, the dog can do everything, but getting an AKC CD might be out of the question, due to a lack of intermittent rewards at this point...

It's in the transference to another owner other than the trainer that's going to make the difference, so hopefully that seven hundred bones covers a little behavioral mod on part of the original handler...


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## richard mattox (Feb 12, 2008)

Mike stated: "I would have thought the fun in training is learning about yourself and the dog all within the training system, it seems a bit like having a very good fast Car and giving it to someone else to drive"

Actually it's more like giving the car to someone to do mechanic work on and maybe fine tune. Then they get it back to enjoy the ride. That's what the majority of the public out there want. Most aren't into the sport aspect. They just want a dog that is well behaved when they come home to hang out with around the house. To them they could care less about getting there. They just want the end result to enjoy.


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## Mike Smith (Apr 1, 2008)

Hi Richard 
Thanks for the reply

I can see the argument in sending a dog away to be trained, but I can't really see the logic, behind the thinking. All the fun of human/dog inter action and getting to know each other disappears.:-({|= 

All very well I suppose if the owner understands dog training to begin with and can carry on from where the pro trainer left off.......... but on the other hand if they do understand dog training why send the dog off in the first place?

It's an easy fix I suppose...'till the dog comes home and it all goes pear shaped, due to a lack of skills on the part of the owner?

Answers anyone?


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Mike Smith said:


> It's an easy fix I suppose...'till the dog comes home and it all goes pear shaped, due to a lack of skills on the part of the owner?


But that is exactly it. I see it all the time in grooming. Owner comes in, "I had the dog trained" and the dog is initially listening to the owner in a half-hearted manner, but a few weeks down the line it's as crazy as it was before... Funny thing is, the dog was well-behaved and listened to me and the other groomer, since BEFORE any training. 8) 

Still, people think it is easier to have someone else do the work.


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