# What do you use as a base for your outside kennels?



## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Gravel? Concrete? I'm setting up 3 outside kennel runs and wanted to get some suggestions. Thanks.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

do yourself a favor and just go with the concrete, toss a horse mat or two (depending on the size of the run) for them to lay on.

I did pea gravel before, 12 inches deep. gravel is a great idea (in theory) , the gravel drains good, but over time if the drainage is not good under it, it is hard to get really clean and rinsed good to depth, so you have to turn it to do a good job. It also gets tossed all around, into and out of runs, and you lose X amount when picking up solid waste, you need to add to it almost every year..and it was not really that cost effective over time for me. I was keeping kennel dogs in them though, so that may be different than what you are going to do, if it is just for short periods of time, gravel might do the trick for ya. still makes a mess, I had base of railroad ties to try to help keep it contained.

for short stints, good ole dirt is ok too I think...


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I use horse stall mats wall to wall, but my dog does not go to the bathroom in there.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I use horse stall mats wall to wall, but my dog does not go to the bathroom in there.


Yeah I think it really matters, the amount of time the dogs will be in there, or if you plan to take in other dogs to keep in them as well, or just your own dogs.

when I build more kennels it will be with concrete.

I have had the pea gravel, the concrete, and the dirt. concrete is the way to go for me in the future, or dirt for part time use, with buried fencing laying down on the inside, around the perimeter to stall diggers.


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

concrete is the only way to go


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

concrete, mixed poured and laid well ... and cured WELL (1 week ponding is prob the best method)
*** but i would also stress that you seal it WELL .... i can't remember the exact name of what i use, but maybe "bioseal" ... thin clear liquid applied with a bug sprayer that penetrates a few inches into concrete (new or cured) and fills the capillaries with a silica based chemical that hardens and seals well ... leaves no color so can't tell it was applied

.... cool way to see how it works is to leave your initials or some cuss word un treated when you lay it on...when it dries you spray water and the word comes up where the water soaks in, like it was written in invisible ink 

there are a few types out there, some are better than others depending on the mixture ... supposed to last "forever", but i redo it every now and then ... really limits the stink factor

look real close and you will see concrete is like a sponge no matter how solid you might think it is :-(((

a thin top layer of an acrylic fortified concrete mix is great too, but expensive...other waterproofing additives available for concrete on the market too ... little more hi-tech than standard "mud" these days


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

My top layer is shavings, a combination of pine and cedar. Under that it depends, might be concrete, might be pavers, might be dirt, I've used all of them. The cedar is a natural repellent, the pine is more absorbent.

I like the shavings because it makes cleanup easy and there aren't issues with dogs stepping in things. But I also don't have individual kennels for dogs, I've always had small to large "yards" with multiple dogs in them. Right now my dog yard is 20x60, about 20x20 is pavers the rest is dirt/grass, and there are usually 2-4 dogs running around in it. So there is a lot of running, playing, wrestling, etc going on. The few times I've tried straight concrete or pavers I had issues with things being stepped in during play, alone they avoid any piles but when chasing each other around ... The shavings take care of this, any piles or puddles created during the day while I'm gone get shavings kicked over them or soak down into the ground. I refresh the shavings on a regular basis, as some are removed during the daily cleaning, and then strip the whole thing once in awhile. I also use a hose attachment to spray a bleach/water solution on a regular basis. But being able to pick things up with shavings does a good job of making sure I get everything, vs hosing particles of "stuff" over the sides of the concrete into the surrounding area. It also teaches the dogs to not potty on the concrete, so areas like my back patio just aren't options to them.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

My kennels 10x10 and 10x 5 sit on pavers. The pavers sit on a base of base rock and sand. For me it was logical to use the pavers as we had an abundance of them after a re-landscaping the backyard, plus our yard has a slight slope. The positive using pavers is that they drain well and if I need to relocate the kennels I am able to do so. The negative after several years you may have some pavers that sag or cave in a bit and need to re set them.

My neighbor just put some cement pads for his kennel, he used insulated concrete,which they add some fiberglass to the mix. Keeps the cement cool in the summer and not so cold during the winter.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Mario Fernandez said:


> ....
> 
> My neighbor just put some cement pads for his kennel, he used insulated concrete,which they add some fiberglass to the mix. Keeps the cement cool in the summer and not so cold during the winter.


I've heard (and seen) about insulated concrete FORMS that have concrete poured in for the middle layer...used in new construction for vertical walls (basements, etc...), but I don't see how adding the fiberglass threads to the mix will help insulate any poured floors. The fiberglass threads are added in the floor mix to help keep the concrete from cracking.


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

I like concrete with horse mats for a kennel, but for a "dog yard" I will always use the same think I used in my horse stalls - Cedar Dry . It drains really well (think about the size of a horse puddle!) and kinda "coats" the solid waste so it is less messy, less smelly and easier to pick up. 

We went down six inches and put down pavers that sloped to a french drain (already had one in the yard, so tapped into it) and filled the rest with the Cedar Dry. It was a bit on the expensive side to start, but turned out cheap to maintain and you couldn't ask for a cleaner look. Add more of the granules for a whiter, better draining (like in the rainy season) pen or more shavings for a darker, better smelling pen. 

Worked for me!


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Skip Morgart said:


> I've heard (and seen) about insulated concrete FORMS that have concrete poured in for the middle layer...used in new construction for vertical walls (basements, etc...), but I don't see how adding the fiberglass threads to the mix will help insulate any poured floors. The fiberglass threads are added in the floor mix to help keep the concrete from cracking.


It doesn't, it adds strength, reduces the chance of large cracks or chips from occurring. I've seen beaded Styrofoam added to concrete, mostly for weight and sound reduction but I think it has some insulating properties. I've used the ICF, very awsome way to build!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jessica Kromer said:


> I like concrete with horse mats for a kennel, but for a "dog yard" I will always use the same think I used in my horse stalls - Cedar Dry . It drains really well (think about the size of a horse puddle!) and kinda "coats" the solid waste so it is less messy, less smelly and easier to pick up.


I haven't tried the Cedar Dry, I'll have to look at it. I have used Dry Stall in the past any time it rains, since when it rains here it tends to pour. Love it, it does a great job of soaking things up. I have found in the summer though it was a little dusty, so I mixed the shavings with it, even in my horses pen. That and an occasional spray with the hose helped a lot.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I have used pavers as well, seems to take more time to clean for me, and regardless of how level and good you do them, there are still cracks that crap can get into...and if you shovel,can be a pain.. just my opinion.


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I haven't tried the Cedar Dry, I'll have to look at it. I have used Dry Stall in the past any time it rains, since when it rains here it tends to pour. Love it, it does a great job of soaking things up. I have found in the summer though it was a little dusty, so I mixed the shavings with it, even in my horses pen. That and an occasional spray with the hose helped a lot.


The dustiness is why I went with the Cedar Dry. It is like having shaving pre mixed. And I like the cedar shavings better than the standard stall shavings. It is a little bit heavier so it doesn't blow away as easily (but we seem to live in a wind tunnel on this part of the coast, so I still lost some, wetting it down helps a lot though). AND I love the smell of fresh cedar, but the flies and the fleas don't seem too :wink: .


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I use pavers as they are relatively inexpensive and easy to keep clean plus they are easy to relocate. The dogs are out of their kennels in the free run ( fenced) grass dogyard with gravel for the tieout areas and in the higher traffic areas in front of the kennel runs and front of the fence.
I like something that hoses off and pressure washes well. I like gravel for areas outside the runs as it keeps mud and dust down in high traffic areas but in kennels it can tend to get kicked around, gets dug and waste gets smooshed into it and it is hard to keep it clean smelling. I use alot of straw bedding in the winter and it is easier to clean up on pavers or concrete than the gravel. Depends on your climate, etc and how much shade you have etc but this works well for me with outdoor runs in eastern Ontario.


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

we used Concrete for our runs just make sure it is poured with a slight dip to outside so it drains away from building and dont puddle up.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I would also highly recommend making a gutter or trough, if pouring concrete, to divert all the water and waste used to clean it, to a certain area, I saw a small kennel setup with a buried 55 gallon drum with holes all over it, filled with gravel at the end of the trough. I liked that idea...


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

yea joby we did that a slight dip to one end we made a french drain out of 55 gal plastic barrel buried with septic rocks,been working fine for years now.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Keith Earle said:


> yea joby we did that a slight dip to one end we made a french drain out of 55 gal plastic barrel buried with septic rocks,been working fine for years now.


+1...

I just worked my ass of to help my crippled friend out, we decided to dig a trench around his concrete pad about 2 feet by 2 feet and fill it with gravel. He has no gutter, and all around his concrete was like a swamp, almost never completely dried out...hoping that what we did will work for him. he fell down in the swampy mess a couple weeks ago, which was still funny, even though he is crippled..


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The French drain and septic tank is a great idea *IF *you live in an area that has no drainage issues. Some areas with heavy clay soil wouldn't work very well.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

I will ask my neighbor what he added to the mix to his kennel pad. He works in construction and says the ICF are awesome. He build a new club house for his hunting club with ICF, but for what he needed it wasn't feasible price wise so, he did his own. 

Edward you are right beaded Styrofoam does have some insulation properties. 

As far as cleaning pavers, I use my $100 home depot pressure washer to clean the kennels so nothing gets stuck in the groves.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mario Fernandez said:


> I will ask my neighbor what he added to the mix to his kennel pad. He works in construction and says the ICF are awesome. He build a new club house for his hunting club with ICF, but for what he needed it wasn't feasible price wise so, he did his own.
> 
> Edward you are right beaded Styrofoam does have some insulation properties.
> 
> As far as cleaning pavers, I use my $100 home depot pressure washer to clean the kennels so nothing gets stuck in the groves.


yeah, pressure washer is great, using a hose, not the best.


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

I have a 10x20 kennel run and I built some wood slats out of cheap fencing material. The slats cover about 10x10 and its been holding up well after a year and it keeps the dog raised up and out of the dirt. The dogs rarely crap on the wood section, they're pretty good about doing their business on the dirt portion of the kennel run.

I'm thinking if I ever do this again in the future, i'm going to use the composite material.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

From opinions her it seems like an easy do it yourself alternative is to use pavers laid yourself and coat it in some of ricks cement sealer.Easy and hygenic.Over here if the rspca wants to enforce it nothing but a sealed cement or brick floor is suppose to be acceptable for dogs kennels.Its in there code of practice.Dont know about other people but the costs of cement trucks and cement is very high here as well.


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

I use an elevated kennel design I saw in the Netherlands. Kennels are inside/outside via swinging doors and connected to a divided stall on the inside. Great set up but you never how things turn out, my male caught a small coyote once inside the barn. Have photo but graphic


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## Kevin Barrett (Dec 16, 2009)

I use small limestone forget what number, with heavy plastic underlayment sloped to drainage trench with horse pads on top
. Not allowed to do concrete thanks to h.o.a but the lime is great for any odor control.


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

I have a similar set up to what Ed has.. a lot of European kennels use wood. So far, it has worked extremely well for us after previously having them on gravel.

I like gravel, but I don't like it for all the same reasons Joby listed. Personally, it's most important that my dogs are clean and comfortable in their kennels. They were comfortable on the gravel, but it made them very dirty. I don't like concrete for the comfort issue as well. I also don't like my kennels being wet all the time due to the way concrete needs to be cleaned. My dogs go to the bathroom outside every day and typically only pee in their kennels if they really have to, so they are treated more like oversized, outdoor crates at our house.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2840284481688&l=874751062a

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2840283201656&l=55cc00f6a1


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## Peta Het (Feb 13, 2011)

This time around I used pea stone with Gravel-Lok to keep it together, dry, and clean. It has been great but my dog doesnt go to the bathroom in his kennel really. In previous kennels I used loose crushed stone and found that the dogs get dirty, its messy etc. I like cement but couldn't use it in this location. 

http://gravel-lok.blogspot.com/2011/10/gravel-lok-is-going-to-dogs.html


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Do those "igloo" style dog houses do a good job? My dogs will only be in their kennel runs for a few hours each day, but I want some shelter in there if it rains, etc...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Does the wood have a tendency to smell or rot with urine buildup? How does it drain underneath?


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

re - pavers - I have found it is alot easier if you are using pavers to use the biggest size possible if you want them very even and to heave and settle less - I found when I used 32 inch ones I could get them very level and a good tight fit - miserable pukes to handle though if you have to do it all by yourself and a bit of swearing involved to get them level but once down they stay that way pretty well.


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## Peta Het (Feb 13, 2011)

Skip Morgart said:


> Do those "igloo" style dog houses do a good job? My dogs will only be in their kennel runs for a few hours each day, but I want some shelter in there if it rains, etc...


It's pretty good, I stuff it with straw in the winter. There is a lot of room in there which can be bad if you need warmth. But they are made pretty well. Got it at Tractor Supply.


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Does the wood have a tendency to smell or rot with urine buildup? How does it drain underneath?


This would be a concern for me as well....

Curious to hear the answer....


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

My dog's yard (daytime use only) is 40x40 grass/dirt. He has worn down a path on one side that gets muddy when it rains. about 3 to 4 ft wide along fenceline. was wondering what to put there? figured pea gravel would go everywhere unless I contained it somehow. would you do large pavers and what would you set them on/in? ground is clay, poor drainage, flat. pen is completely outdoors w/ 2 trees and a dog house and small trough for pool.

also, have cattle panels running along fenceline to prevent digging and he trots up and down just outside those (about 1 1/2 foot width).


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

heavier gravel is good in high traffic areas as it doesn't scoot around as bad and packs down better


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Skip, the dogloos work pretty good, unless the dog decides to chew them, they hold up to chewing for a while, but can get raggedy...I raised my dog in a kennel for about 9 months, including over the winter in Wisconsin in a kennel with a dogloo, put straw in it, they would be good for wind, but not brutal cold weather, depending on the dog. I have a friend that keeps his dogs outside 24/7 all year, brings them into the garage with a wood burner on brutal days. He has been doing that for at least 15 yrs, mostly pits, ab, or pit mixes.

My dog however, almost never used the dogloo, that I saw, she would pull the straw out and push make a bed on the concrete, sleep on the ice and snow, one time I looked out and saw her sitting on top of it in a late fall rainstorm. The kennel top had some wood privacy fencing laying on top for shade, but it was not water proof. It was there, she coulda used it if she wanted to... who knows 

some of the dogloo types are just solid plastic (one layer), others have two thinner layers with air pocket between them, supposedly for insulation properties..

some people use plastic barrels, I have also used dual chamber insulated wood houses, which are really the best I think for colder weather...


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

+ 1 for the igloos mine are a bit larger then that on but i like them for the coin.But we dont get snow etc here.

Lynn i completely agree on paver size its much easier with larger pavers they find there level very easy unlike tiling which smaller tiles work better then large for the novice.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Peta Het said:


> This time around I used pea stone with Gravel-Lok to keep it together, dry, and clean. It has been great but my dog doesnt go to the bathroom in his kennel really. In previous kennels I used loose crushed stone and found that the dogs get dirty, its messy etc. I like cement but couldn't use it in this location.
> 
> http://gravel-lok.blogspot.com/2011/10/gravel-lok-is-going-to-dogs.html



I kind of like this setup. My dogs will only be out there for a few hours each day (maybe).


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## Peta Het (Feb 13, 2011)

Skip Morgart said:


> I kind of like this setup. My dogs will only be out there for a few hours each day (maybe).


All I can tell you is that It has worked out really well so far. My dog spends most days out there. The kennel stays clean and dry and the dog seems to be comfortable in there. He often lies down on the stone floor even though I have a thick rubber stall pad in there for him. He does use the doghouse but not very often and usually only if it is really cold.
Since the time of that pic I have reinforced the roof using PVC and chicken wire with a tarp on top. It stays nice and dry and shady for him.
I got the Tarter kennel at Tractor Supply also. For the money it was a very good deal. I'd buy another in a heartbeat and probably will sometime soon. 
As far as the gravel-lok it has been great but I wonder how well it would work out if the dog was defecating in there a lot. Mine never has. But I'd imagine you might have to clean out the stones with a pressure washer occassionally. Urine is a non-issue ofcourse because liquid drains immediately.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peta Het said:


> All I can tell you is that It has worked out really well so far. My dog spends most days out there. The kennel stays clean and dry and the dog seems to be comfortable in there. He often lies down on the stone floor even though I have a thick rubber stall pad in there for him. He does use the doghouse but not very often and usually only if it is really cold.
> Since the time of that pic I have reinforced the roof using PVC and chicken wire with a tarp on top. It stays nice and dry and shady for him.
> I got the Tarter kennel at Tractor Supply also. For the money it was a very good deal. I'd buy another in a heartbeat and probably will sometime soon.
> As far as the gravel-lok it has been great but I wonder how well it would work out if the dog was defecating in there a lot. Mine never has. But I'd imagine you might have to clean out the stones with a pressure washer occassionally. Urine is a non-issue ofcourse because liquid drains immediately.


have you raised one end of the top at all for drainage? it looks like the water would all pool on top of the tarp in that picture when it rains...any new pics of it, I assume that picture was shortly after it was done..correct?


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## Peta Het (Feb 13, 2011)

yeah the tarp in that pic was temporary. I added some slope to it now so its not a problem but it was a bit of a pain to get it not to pool at all. I may need to make revisions to the roof in the future as its a total kludge...no, no pics of that


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peta Het said:


> yeah the tarp in that pic was temporary. I added some slope to it now so its not a problem but it was a bit of a pain to get it not to pool at all. I may need to make revisions to the roof in the future as its a total kludge...no, no pics of that


I know...I did it before...what worked for me was a heavy duty (expensive) tarp, and 2 X 4 frame (24 inches on center trusses), raised 12 inches on one side (12 ft span), it even held the snow loads. Had to change the tarp every couple years, winds work magic


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Peta Het said:


> yeah the tarp in that pic was temporary. I added some slope to it now so its not a problem but it was a bit of a pain to get it not to pool at all. I may need to make revisions to the roof in the future as its a total kludge...no, no pics of that


How deep is your layer of pea gravel?


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## Peta Het (Feb 13, 2011)

I think its around 5-6 inches. Click on that link I provided and you can see how deep it was before it was filled. I think that support material I used (which was unnecessary) was 4" and there was an inch or two on top of that.


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Does the wood have a tendency to smell or rot with urine buildup? How does it drain underneath?


Ours have not been up long enough to "withstand the test of time" so to speak, however, we have not had any issues so far. 

We used pressure treated deck boards (not concerned about my dogs gnawing away at them) and all of our kennels are under cover, so they aren't exposed to rain, etc. all the time. I disinfect them every day, and completely hose them down and scrub them probably every two weeks or so, as our goal was to not have tons of water flowing back there since we chose not to put a drain in. They have gravel underneath and the boards have just enough space in between them to allow for pee to go through. The only issues I sometimes have are when one of our dogs likes to grind his poop in between the cracks, so that just takes some extra hosing and/or scrubbing when necessary. The wood has not taken on a urine smell at all at this point.

I really have no complaints and the decking keeps my dogs clean, dry, smelling good and it's easy on their joints.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

In Los Angeles my kennels were on cement. We also used wood pallets in the kennels, nice for air flow and getting the dogs off the cement.

Up here, we have a kennel run, and a fenced dog yard, both on dirt/grass, with a couple feet of buried rock around the fence lines to prevent digging. 

Thanks Kadi and Jessica, I'm definitely going to try Cedar Dry and/or Dry Stall (whichever I can get my hands on), because my big issue here is the mud when it rains...and it rains a lot in the springtime! I would LOVE to not have to rinse off the pups every time I want to bring one or the other inside for a little house time and every night before I put them to bed in their indoor kennels!!


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