# The direction of NARA



## Jeff Oehlsen

Apache Trial
IP: 76.108.104.43
Posted on February 15, 2010 at 07:12:43 PM by RichardBonilla

First I would like to thank our Judges Thad Peterson and Shannon Nieuwkoop who did an awesome job and Our decoys,Matt Nieuwkoop,Stephan Hubert and Mike Porter who did just an amazing job.All the competitors old and new it was great seeing everyone have a fun time. It is trials like this that make me proud to be a member of NARA the original Ring Sport in america with 20 plus years of recognition from France. And by the way Nara has a new level 1 decoy Justin Kelley who I look forward to working with in the future. now unof results 
feb 12 
Brevet cerbere joey L 96.15 Q 
isis kenneth p 56 NQ 
kane kim p 28.5 NQ 
Ring 1 Cobra Tony s 180.20 Q 
Degas Shannon N 14601 NQ 
Tango Maureen E 141.10 NQ 
Cerbere joey l 99.9 NQ 
Ring 2 jersey john a 250.4 Q 
Ring 3 Vic Richie B 335.5 ex 

Feb 13 

Brevet isis kenneth p 85.7 Q 
kane kim p 82.4 Q 
Ring 1 
cerbere joey L 198.4 Q 
Cobra Tony s 190.7 Q 
Degas Shannon N 175.8 Q 
Ring 3 
Vic Richie B 338.25 ex 
Jersey John A 295.35 vg 

Again thank you all for your support 

How many things can you point out in this that make you go Hmm.

Yes, I am calling Bullshit. 

I want to judge my own dog at a trial that my GF will be the decoy.................... wait, **** it, how about I just give myself the points, and just go to the beach instead ?? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

This is only funny to those like me that actually give a **** about what something means.

I really found it interesting that in ONE day, a kid manages to pull 99 points out of his ass to do so much better the next day. Check the scores out. Interesting.

Let me guess, first thing out of their mouths is "Your not NARA what do you care for ??


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## Amanda Caldron

That is interesting however don't know the dog or handler. I know I have had some super bad days where I alone took "plenty" of points from my dog. Never did the club scene so didn't realize all the handler awareness you needed. Lots of rules and is very tricky. good to see you notice such things though... can't say i really pay too much attention to points i look at did i pass it or fail it.


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## Shannon Nieuwkoop

Jeff, if you have any questions regarding the judging and scoring of these trials, please feel free to contact me directly at 616-724-7079. 

Shannon Nieuwkoop
NARA President


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## Al Curbow

Why wouldn't you publically respond?


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## Shannon Nieuwkoop

I'll give a brief public response. No one judged their own dog. The competitor who had a dramatic point increase from one trial to the next did so because his dog didn't blow three lines of departure during the second trial.

Nothing good ever seems to come from forum discussions that begin with accusations, which is why I'm not especially interested in participating in this one. _Anyone_ who has additional questions may contact me directly. 

Shannon Nieuwkoop
NARA President


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## Bob Scott

Shannon, as a moderator of this forum I thank you for your explinations and agree with your assessment!


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## Hans Akerbakk

Nice trial 3 judges , 3 decoys and only 9 dogs .
To have that much knowledge in one place is awesome.=D>


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## Mo Earle

It is to bad Jeff, you have to insinuate something bad, or below board was going on. Nara is still on course and going in a very good direction IMO. Unlike you.......I was at that trial, and first I want to say the judges were awesome! And as good as Tango usually is, I didn't get my first leg of L1.... the day I trialed Thad was judge, Tango decided he needed an extra OUT command on every exercise, decided to take the return jump on his own-and was wide on one corner with a muzzle- If I had been able to stay, I am sure his scores would have been better the next day, as a lot of that could have been easily fixed that night in another training session- new field, new decoys..Tango decided he was going to get away with some crap! But the judging was by the book!

The dogs that got better scores the next day, were also displaying some of the behaviors of Tango, getting away with crap,a lot of things they never did before...., they know the difference between Trial day and Training day....I am glad their handlers were able to get control of them, and work out their problems- Line of departure breaking-is a big loss-a big fat zero-they bring down a score pretty quickly!!!!,....but can be a quick fix, with some training. Jeff, I have never seen your dog, but being that you compete-I am sure you have seen him pull some crap also?

Thanks to Clarissa for making her field accessible to those who needed to train some things, and thanks to the decoys who were willing to help out-I wish I could have stayed longer!And thanks to Richard for setting up the trials-it is a lot of work, and finally for Shannon and Thad and them traveling so far, to make it possible.


I am so glad I went, I think the direction of NARA is a good one,I love Ring Sport, and I enjoyed seeing everyone again, meeting new people and having the opportunity to trial. I think Thad and Shannon, are a very credible and awesome addition to NARA- strict, but fair, followed the rules to a T !!.
I would encourage anyone to get involved with NARA!!


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## Mike Lauer

all you can do is be professional and rise above.
nicely handled Shannon


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So you fixed a dog that broke the line of departure 3 times in less than a day ?? 

I have trialed, and 2nd day is always worse. So look at the scores, they all improved the second day ??

C'mon.


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## Kadi Thingvall

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So you fixed a dog that broke the line of departure 3 times in less than a day ??


I've done this, and seen it done. I wouldn't call it a "fix", ie going to last long term, but I've definitely seen it work as a bandaid to get through the trial, then the handler has a lot to truly fix once they get home. 



> I have trialed, and 2nd day is always worse. So look at the scores, they all improved the second day ??
> 
> C'mon.


Depends on the dog, the handler, and why the points were lost. Sometimes its something easy to fix, like a handler mistake that zero's an entire exercise. Generally the handler won't make that one again =D> I've seen this a lot in the lower levels (Brevet/FRI). Or the dog didn't find the decoy in the blind search, but did the next day, common in FRIIs who don't have the experience level of an FRIII dog yet. Or the dog had problems with jumps or the send away. I've seen all of these be a problem one day, and not the next. I've also seen this with my own dogs in open field, dog has problems and if we'd been trialing would have zero'd but the next day they did it successfully.


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## Geoff Empey

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So you fixed a dog that broke the line of departure 3 times in less than a day ??
> 
> I have trialed, and 2nd day is always worse. So look at the scores, they all improved the second day ??
> 
> C'mon.


Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. Take off the e-collar/prong, put it back on .. 

With enough repetition yes .. That's how I finally fixed her leaving me and following the decoy on the DOH ..


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I think it is nice that you guys are covering up their hijinks. Anyone with half a brain can see something was powderpuffy about all this.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I do want to ask you how it was that the judge one day was able to trial both days ?? Can you show me the rule where a judge steps out of a trial to get her own dog and then just comes back when she is done.

Shady Shady. I like how she wanted to "just talk on the phone" if she has done nothing shady, then.................


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## Billy DiSciullo

WOW...that's messed up! Maybe Mr. Peterson judged both trials?? Out of the three judes at the trial he is the only one that did not compete a dog.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
First I would like to thank our Judges Thad Peterson and Shannon Nieuwkoop who did an awesome job

Not according to this.


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## Debbie Skinner

I'm remembering from my trial days in the 1990s if the dog is not owned by you (in your name) such as a spouse, it can be decoyed by the spouse. Not sure if the same thing applies to a judge's dog. I think it depends who is the owner on record of the dog. 

Also, one time at a trial, I was trialing my dog and doing chien en blancs with another as it was a small trial and everyone was multi-tasking! I was asked to handle the decoy's dog for the brevet. I was going to do it, but then it wasn't allowed because the dog was registered to the decoy. If the dog was owned/registered to his wife or owned by anyone else then we could of trialed the dog in that manner. This was an out of state trial and I didn't know the dog or handler, but it just a last minute suggestion to make numbers in the trial. In the end, I couldn't handle the dog due to it being owned by the decoy who would be decoying it for the Brevet. The judge was Mr. Karcenty (formative judge from France) so I'm sure this was the policy then.

So I think the dog could be handed off to a different handler to trial. There are scenarios that are totally legit. In those days there were no American Judges so this exact situation never arose.


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## Jason Davis

Yes Jeff you can fix a line of depature in 2 minutes


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## Billy DiSciullo

That's funny!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

But cannot train it in the previous months. Not really the point of the whole thing.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So Billy, have you ever had a dog that has a problem with the line of departure ???


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## Tamara McIntosh

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So Billy, have you ever had a dog that has a problem with the line of departure ???


Jeff,

Dominique Piton showed us a method in his several trips to Canada, that simply taught the dog patience. While I use this method in every training session, it is also applicable to a "quick fix", it would take about 15 mins, no pinch or ecollar needed, in fact several dogs only had a very light bindertwine "leash" at the time. Simply patiences and repetition. So long as a person is willing to be consistant with the dog and commit to the method it works great.

Of course the line of departure problem needs to be addressed in everyday training, however it is possible to "fix" the problem in a short time. One needs to train smarter not harder.

Once a dog gets trial wise, during a trial you have no options. You can not correct, you can only do your best to manage the point loss.

I have also seen people who get so up tight and wound up for a trial that their dogs barely even recognize them, which results in all kinds of weird and wonderful behaviour from both the handler and the dog. WHO KNOWS what happened, besides those whom were actually there.

I do have to mention that your posts, while aimed at NARA, are seriously off putting to people new to the sport. You are attacking people you do not know and you could be wrecking them for the sport all together.

We ALL go out to the trial field hoping we are ready, and no one deserves to be torn apart for their effort and hard work, because a person has an issue with the regulating body of the sport. To keep people in ringsports we need to encourage, not denigrade them on public forums (where they are probably not even members).

I see many people here giving lip service to the goal of wanting ring to grow and NEVER following thru with the true esprit de corps of ring. Working TOGETHER and helping each other, giving a person a hand UP rather than a put down is what is needed.

Tamara McIntosh


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## Billy DiSciullo

Hi Jeff,

As a matter of fact I did! 2008 was the worst trial season I have ever had! I could not trial my dog because his line was gone. I did three trials that season and two of the three trials he broke the line on the FIRST bite excerse! The first time he broke he fixed himself at about 3 meters before the horn to send him. I knew then there was a problem but the training decoys in my club did not see it. That was at a trial in NY on 5-31-2008. For weeks after that I was saying to the training decoys in my club that my dogs line was weak and they said his line was fine but his entry was weak...what a joke. At that time I was preparing to compete at the CZ Selectif trial in IL 6-28-08. I was trying to maintain an adverage for the NARA Championship and a place on the team for the CIC that was to be held in Mexico that season. Well I went to the CZ Selectif trial and once again on the first bite excerse Urban broke the line and I ended up leaving the trial right after I got off the field and headed back to Boston. At that trial one of the two training directors from my club told me there was NOTHING wrong with my dogs line and if he broke he (one of the training directors) would take responsability for it but not to worry Urban was fine!! Well Urban wasn't fine and we dropped in the standings and I lost my place for the CIC plus it cost me a season of training and trialing! I was very upset and hurt for two reasons one because no one could help me fix him before these trials and again after these trials they left me on my own because they COULD NOT UNDERSTAND why I was so Pi$$ed off and I was told (by the other training director) I burned my bridges!! Its something I will never forget or forgive! Well, I am now in a better place and my dog is back on top ....Thank You Bob and NERC!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Tamara, I was just asking Billy about his line of departure. I don't have any such problems. My foundation is very strong, my dog is just an asshole.

New people to the sport will either want to do it or not. Knowing what you are going into ahead of time is helpful. I chose Mondio because of all the silly bullshit that went on in NARA.


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## Billy DiSciullo

Hey Jeff,

Let me add that when I went to NERC and we started fixing my dogs line it was not something that we fixed over night!


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## Jason Davis

Billy is correct and Urban had a horrible line problem that had nothing to do with Billys training ability. I as his training decoy at the time have no clue how to train a dog nor do I know how to fix problems. Those who know me already know this to be true. I have no clue what it takes to train a dog to a championship level. Billy I'm happy you've finally found a trainer who can help you and Urban reach your maximum potential. I know it's taken a long time for that to happen. Now you are finally winning championships and really going places and I'm happy for you. 
Anyways back to the subject at hand and enough with hearing people sniffle about the past. Yea Joey L's dog blew the line 3 times the first trial. He went and cleaned it up and put a bandaid on it in order to get through the next day. Anybody who has ever competed knows that trials help you see the holes in your training. Maybe if people would stop wasting all their time in looking for the bad in things and train their dogs instead, you would actually be successful in the sport you train in. Ok I'm done wasting my time on this petty conversation that was started. NARA is second to none in the states. The decoys are second to none in the states as well as the dogs. Get used to it and get over it and train your damn dogs. Have a good night everyone!


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## Billy DiSciullo

Hey Jason,

But I do know what it takes to get a dog to championship level as I have done it with two dogs. Too bad you couldn't listen to me about my own dog! A lost season may mean nothing to you but to me it means a lot!! As for the best dogs in Ring and the best decoys in Ring...hmmm I think you need to take another look cuz the last time I looked we were all with the AMERICAN RINGSPORT FEDERATION WHERE WE PLAY BY THE RULES AND STANDAREDS OF FRANCE!! Not to the tune of watered down standards and mediocraty!!


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## Bob Solimini

Jason Davis said:


> NARA is second to none in the states. The decoys are second to none in the states as well as the dogs. Get used to it and get over it and train your damn dogs. Have a good night everyone!


Hmmmm That is interesting so the decoys that are ALL very new and VERY inexperienced are the best in the US??? =D> That is AWESOME for you guys!
AND not only do you have the top decoys in NARA but the top dogs too..? WOW! You guys are so lucky!
AS I recall some of the former "decoy of the year" winners are now in ARF and a few of the former NARA Champions are there too. 
It is not only arrogance that made you post this Jason but also ignorance! I have always liked you Jason, and have trained with you a few times. But I think you know that what you wrote is foolish!


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## Jason Davis

Billy I wasn't arguing with you. I know you won championships with both Urban and Crash. I was simply saying that I don't know how to train dogs is all. No need to get defensive. As far as ARF is concerned. I wish that organization the best of luck and there's no need to waste my time trying to find problems with it and posting it on a message board. There are more important things to do such as train my dog and support my organization. It's about time ARF supporters do the same thing. At the end of the day it's about the sport. Making false acusations and assumptions aren't going to help anything. Like I said before. Good luck with Urban and I'm finally glad you've found a trainer who knows how to handle him. I'm really happy for you.


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## Jason Davis

Bob if I'm not mistaken, ARF has two former decoys of the year. One being yourself and another one being someone who was the only one competing in the super selection. Also I believe you had one former NARA champion which was Titan. I've always like and still do like you Bob and yes I enjoyed training with you. I don't believe my statements to be foolish. The videos of the ARF trials have been posted publically for all to see. That's where i get my point of view from. I've seen it first hand. So I stand by my previous statement and arrogance and foolishness has nothing to do with it. It's an opinion based on what the ARF videos show. This is nothing to do against you Bob. I just get annoyed and people constanly looking for ways to bash on an organization that I'm apart of. I should just keep my mouth shut but it's hard for me sometimes. Hope all is well Bob and I wish you the best!


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## Jim Engel

*American French Ring - Just like Groundhog day at the movies..*

Twenty years ago American ring was two groups of about
17 people each arguing which one was more French than
the French. Nothing ever seems to change.






Jason Davis said:


> Bob if I'm not mistaken, ARF has two former decoys of the year. One being yourself and another one being someone who was the only one competing in the super selection. Also I believe you had one former NARA champion which was Titan. I've always like and still do like you Bob and yes I enjoyed training with you. I don't believe my statements to be foolish. The videos of the ARF trials have been posted publically for all to see. That's where i get my point of view from. I've seen it first hand. So I stand by my previous statement and arrogance and foolishness has nothing to do with it. It's an opinion based on what the ARF videos show. This is nothing to do against you Bob. I just get annoyed and people constanly looking for ways to bash on an organization that I'm apart of. I should just keep my mouth shut but it's hard for me sometimes. Hope all is well Bob and I wish you the best!


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## Bob Solimini

Jason,
It is also hard for me to keep my mouth shut, and control myself in certain situations… SOOO…

Actually there are 3 former decoys of the year in ARF. Also you are basing your opinion on A VIDEO you saw? LOL! I have a video of you almost KILLING my dog in a flee attack… I still would say you are a pretty good decoy, not holding you to ONE video that is out there!
I have also seen a bunch of videos of recent NARA trials that were publicly posted and I am NOT IMPRESSED either. If you look at the list of NARA decoys you guys have one level 2 decoy and two decoys that REALLY should not be level 3 (sorry guys, but COME ON!) I also base this on the fact that I saw Josh get his level 1 selection (2008 and in one year he went from catching a dog 20 times to get over a fear of dogs; to a level 3 French Ring decoy… I really like Josh, don’t get me wrong and he is in PHENOMENAL shape; but experience alone should tell you he is no level 3!!! I have also seen a few videos of Matt decoying… and he is also not experienced! I can tell because he stated once that YOU were the best… LOL I joking! 
As for dogs/handlers, there is with out a doubt a higher caliper of handlers, and dogs in ARF. Of course this is my opinion, but you have a few people here that have been on the podium, competed in France, compete in French Selectifs, competed in the Championnat de France, won the NARA Championship, Placed in the CIC, dogs that have won the NARA Championship (2006, 2007, 2008 NARA cup winners, I could go on… 
There is a simple way to settle all of this; meet me by the flag pole at 3PM… No I AM kidding again! 
Come compete in ARF, since we cannot go to NARA because the BoD is overloaded with estrogen and loves watering down the sport! Did I say that out loud...? Sorry! 
You stated “So I stand by my previous statement and arrogance and foolishness has nothing to do with it.” I respect that, but you left out ignorance so I would say that your statement is still based on ignorance!

Take care Jason; hope to see you real soon!!!!!


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## FRANKIE COWEN

JASON 

Just to clarify ARF has 3 decoys of the year bob edjuardo and myself.
as handlers we have former nara ring 3 champions ,
rick 2 times myself 2 times with 2 different dogs i have won the cup and championship twice with two different dogs , billy been onthe podium in big trials with a couple different dogs. 

Trainers whom have taking good dogs to the top as well as dogs that didnt have the best tools we were succesfull with 

ARF decoys whom have decoyed iin france with the best top gun udex and one my favorites uston multiple championships bob and myself,as well as i have decoyed cups of america . Multiple times level 2 decoys i certified level 2 twice i think bob also twice if im not mistaking, and i also won the cup and been a champion or vice champion on every level 1-3, I also have competed over 50 trials in french ring and have competed in france , not trying to toot my own horn as i dont really care to say im great or i suck , just stating the facts U stated were incorrect, just stating the stats that you posted were incorrect in, im not saying im better then anyone or somone is better than me i really dont care, 

i wish you luck in all you do im actually very glad u stayed in ring, as i was at the trial when u first started decoying and you had a terrible accident when you were decoy and the dog hit you on the stop attack and broke its neck and had to be put down, alot of new decoys would have been so shell shocked probally would have never suited up again i give you props you put that behind you and continue to work dogs and it seems like you enjoy that and that is great , as any decoy must enjoy working dogs, i do hope you get your level 2 and 3 soon as i think you could pass if you keep pushing forward and enjoy the dogs . jason relax let things go move on train and get your facts liltte better it would be better to research things before you post as i hate even posted in this nonsense but i love facts to be facts as you know that about me

frankie


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## Konnie Hein

Wow, all these "promoters of the sport..."

Is this "how the French do it?" 

Completely ridiculous, and I know each of you very talented guys have better things to do than make fools of yourselves on a discussion forum. 

Maybe ask yourselves if this is how you want the sport represented here in the US? Are your personal issues and egos worth trashing your own reputations as well as dragging the sport down with you?

Just sayin'.


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## FRANKIE COWEN

konnie 

i agree with you that we should be promoting and its not as easy to do as is to say when always having to defend with others inaccuracys , i wanted to only state facts in reply, As far as ego i can only speak for my self i really dont have a ego in dog sports as i have been doing ring psa asr protection detection and service dogs for way to long to even care what others think anymore , if you ever trained with me or talked to others i have trained with you were hear that i give more than i should and i put myself second ,all to benifit the dog and its handler, I do admit when i first started i did have a ego had something to prove i guess its a man think when you in competion type field, but i been doing dogs almost 20 years dont really got anything to prove anymore, you train with jason and i was were he was long time ago , maybe at the next training session you could tell him to enjoy dogs cause when you stop enjoying it it wears on you, take that as free advice cause i been there i know were he is , I only stated facts to rectify a incorrectness in his stats. You really dont see me even post anymore as i really dont care about alot of the nonsense i moved on from it , but if i see a mis fact i will post, and jason you can always call me if you want to talk or get something off your chest or clear the air on anything past present future. i got no hatred or anger towards anyone in dog sports anymore, as fas as promoting konnie i think we including myself have done alot to help the sport and non to benifit a induvudaul, free seminars a formation more things to help new clubs in the future one can only do so much , i wish things were different on boards but there not, and competion breeds envy espiccilly with ones trying to proove they can do something and like i said when i first entered dogs sports i was the same way, now nope got nothign to proove nor do i enjoy the stress of nonesense

frankie


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## Adam Rawlings

I'm really enjoying the new Ring Sport section on the forum, great stuff.


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## David Feliciano




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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Completely ridiculous, and I know each of you very talented guys have better things to do than make fools of yourselves on a discussion forum.

They don't look foolish to me. Point out what they are saying that makes them fools would ya ?? It looked like an actual conversation, sorry if it wasn't all chicked up. That is a big problem for me, you had nothing to say, and just decided to say that these people look like fools because you couldn't just stay the **** out of it. You just don't know enough, but cannot help yourself. 

That is a huge problem in dog sports. LOL

I think it was good of Jason to admit his deficiencies, that does take some guts. However, while constructive, it is not helping the problem that is so evident in this trial.


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## Keith Jenkins

Only thing I see different is the acronyms that are used...otherwise it's the same thing going on within the other organizations that are out there regardless of whether it's a sport club or breed club...we're the best the other guy sucks and each side can give a dozen reasons why they're right.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So your eyesight just isn't that good either.


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## Richard Rutt

Best or worst is a relative term, based on someones perception, or even worse their feelings. But accomplishment is a matter of fact and record. Anyone who is interested need only go to the NARA web page and look under results and Champions to see up until ARF began in June of 2009 virtually all of the most accomplished dogs, decoys and handlers, still active in Ring, left to Join ARF, that is a matter of fact. That fact alone should make any reasonable person go Hmmm! You can sit by your computers and argue who is better or not, or BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I Simply say, SHOW ME YOUR DOG! 

ARF is hosting the Cup of Champions the middle of Sept, 2010 teams from every country participating in FR have been invited. Spain, Mexico, and the D.R. have confirmed attendance as well as 2 teams from NARA. The dog Jason is currently training has been invited, but has not replied, as of yet. this is a wonderful opportunity to promote and support the Sport you love with no personalities or computers keyboards involved.

So here is your chance,

Show us your dog.


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## chris haynie

is the cup of champions still going to be in the DC metro area? i seem to recall something about that from an earlier thread.


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## Richard Rutt

chris haynie said:


> is the cup of champions still going to be in the DC metro area? i seem to recall something about that from an earlier thread.


As of now that's the plan we are trying to find a neutral field (high school or college stadium, that won't cost an arm and a leg to rent or use, or at least something with facilities for spectators and adequate parking)we will have updates as they become available


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## chris haynie

i'll be there to watch...awesome to have some kind of FR event thats not at least 4 hours away. i'll be on the lookout for updates. 

my brother lives up in fairfax and goes to george mason. he works with some sports teams on event production and management. might be helpful to ya'll. feel free to contact me if you want some help looking for a venue.


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## Debbie Skinner

I want to see Ring Sports grow as do the majority of the working dog community does. 

The problem I see is a club (national or local) practicing exclusion tactics. 

IF the following is TRUE:

France recognizes NARA (scores & trials) - I believe this to be true since the SCC allows their judges and decoys and competitors to come and participate at NARA Trials. Judges mark in the official decoy and score books.

France recognizes ARF (scores and trials) - I believe this to be true since the SCC allows their judges and decoys and competitors to come and participate at ARF Trials. Judges mark in the official decoy and score books.

ARF recognizes NARA (scores & trials) 

but NARA does not recognize ARF (scores and trials). This stifles growth.

Also, local clubs having club exclusive club trials or having members boycotting others events is very damaging. Cliches are very grade school.

More growth and more trials and clubs equals more possibilities for individuals to train and play with their working dogs. 

Of course French Ring rules should be followed (the focus of this thread). I am sure once videos are posted on Youtube then that will be cleared up in a simple manner without speculation. Then appropriate action should be taken (Apologies or Charges).


----------



## Geoff Empey

*Re: American French Ring - Just like Groundhog day at the movies..*



Jim Engel said:


> Twenty years ago American ring was two groups of about
> 17 people each arguing which one was more French than
> the French. Nothing ever seems to change.


Was it the same type of boreish innuendo back then too Jim? Was it just as wearingly dull, repetitive, or tedious as this.

Debbie I agree Cliches stifle growth but I'm sure there was/is a reason why. You might want to look back at recent history (2-3 years) of Ringsports in the USA and not make a black and white assumption is it NOT as easy as that.


----------



## Bob Solimini

Very well said Debbie!
I also wanted to comment on what Konnie Hein wrote..
”Wow, all these "promoters of the sport..."
Is this "how the French do it?" 
Completely ridiculous, and I know each of you very talented guys have better things to do than make fools of yourselves on a discussion forum. 
Maybe ask yourselves if this is how you want the sport represented here in the US? Are your personal issues and egos worth trashing your own reputations as well as dragging the sport down with you?
Just sayin'.”
 I don’t know you Konnie, but I can say that there is arguing and bickering in France! And what does it matter if “this is how they do it in France” as far as anything away from the rules! I personally didn’t think that we were arguing or looking foolish, I thought it was simply a debate! I have seen FAR FAR worse debates and political TV commercials from U.S. politicians trying to get their point across! Do you write in to the newspapers or TV stations and tell them they are being foolish? This is how things get brought to light! If I was shown something from NARA, or Jason that was unarguably correct I would be the first to admit I was wrong and they were right! I always find it funny that if anyone debates anything to do with dogs, especially Ring Sport it is wildly over dramatized and people come out of the woodworking to say how ridiculous it all is! I admit, this is ridiculous! We are working with dogs!!! Not curing cancer or trying to solve the world hunger crisis! IT IS DOGS! BUT, it is also something that many of us are passionate about so you get this! I hope this didn’t come across argumentative or that I am yelling at you! I am not! Just trying to clarify what I thought was happening!


----------



## Marcus Carroll

Wow! This has gone off track. We have even gotten down to hormonal issues. All of this is because Jeff doesn't believe anyone can fail one day and pass the next. I looked at the mondio site and it was done in his sport 6 times last year. OMG! Start a thread. What I couldn't find was Jeff passing a trial. Makes since though since he doesn't know how to fix a line problem.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Just another control freak chick Bob. Just how they are. Personally, I think that they since we are all equal and equality is the way to go, should have clubs for guys, and clubs for girls. 

That way when they decide to trial, if they decide to **** a decoy to get better scores, they will have to go queer. LOL

****ing a decoy to get better scores. Can you imagine the lack of shame ??


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Marcus, do you even have a dog ?? Have you ever trialed a dog ?? I hear that you are just talking completely out of your ass. It is funny how you try and sit at the table with the adults. Now go back to the kids table, before you get paddled again.


----------



## Debbie Skinner

*Re: American French Ring - Just like Groundhog day at the movies..*



Geoff Empey said:


> Was it the same type of boreish innuendo back then too Jim? Was it just as wearingly dull, repetitive, or tedious as this.
> 
> Debbie I agree Cliches stifle growth but I'm sure there was/is a reason why. You might want to look back at recent history (2-3 years) of Ringsports in the USA and not make a black and white assumption is it NOT as easy as that.



I don't think it's black and white as far as emotions, hurt feels, bad blood, etc. That's why I refuse to talk about that.

Just talking about policy, rules and regulations which should be "black and white" imo. 

I'm trying to keep the emotions out of it and just suggest: France recognizes both organizations. If people can compete at all French recognized trials in the USA with the scores recognized by all SCC recognized organizations, this is a positive thing as there are more trials and more choices of clubs and training venues. 

How is this a bad thing from a working dog point of view? Politically for those in power, etc in the different organizations it may not be, but I'm talking about the "big picture". 

No assumptions as it's prefaced with "IF" this is true. 

If it's not true regarding SCC recognition, please present the facts that support this.

It becomes much easier to do the correct things when you follow the rules and regulations, it's like a road map for good behavior. Does not matter who is your friend, competition, enemy, etc. if the rules are followed it keeps people's heads on straight so to speak. It leaves out the part where people can "do what they feel like doing" or "now I have a chance to get even". etc. etc.


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Bob Solimini said:


> Very well said Debbie!
> I also wanted to comment on what Konnie Hein wrote..
> ”Wow, all these "promoters of the sport..."


I think Konnie just wants to have fun training her dog like we all do. 

I think if both organizations would recognize each other some of the tension would defuse..hopefully. 

I don't think it has anything to do with women vs men (Bob you didn't say that I know). 

But, some are speculating about what happened (some are inclined to think foul play from past experience and some think everything is done correctly from their experiences), some trust that it will be worked out by those in charge, and some wait to see the facts such as video, trial sheets, here from people that were, etc before making up their minds on an incident.


----------



## Konnie Hein

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Just another control freak chick Bob. Just how they are.


The irony of this coming from you is pretty funny.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I am the least bit control freak person I know. You can interpret that however you want. HA HA


----------



## Keith Jenkins

Same thing that's happening between these two groups is the same thing that's happened to probably every competing dog organization whether it's sport or breed. Everyone claims to want only the best for the sport/breed yet opposing factions have different views on how to get to that point. People claim to not care or want any politics involved but that's what you have the minute a group breaks to start their own version or someone wakes up one morning and wants to re-invent the wheel.


----------



## Jim Engel

*Re: American French Ring - Just like Groundhog day at the movies..*



Geoff Empey said:


> Was it the same type of boreish innuendo back then too Jim? Was it just as wearingly dull, repetitive, or tedious as this.
> 
> Debbie I agree Cliches stifle growth but I'm sure there was/is a reason why. You might want to look back at recent history (2-3 years) of Ringsports in the USA and not make a black and white assumption is it NOT as easy as that.



Actually, just the names change. And guys like Bob Dixon and the
others were individually sincere people. But they could never go two
months without breaking out into this sort of thing. One by one they
all quit and went away.

I think it's the French Disease. Anything the French do they pretty
much descend into chaos and this sort of fighting. In WWII all of the
French forces, those not going over to the German side, fought one
another for political position once the US, Russians and Brits ran the
Germans out. Degaulle suddenly appeared when the US Army and the
Brits were about to enter Paris, demanding that they wait while he could
gather together some French troops to lead. His big problem was finding
a French unit without black soldiers from the colonies..... 

Even Napoleon was an Italian.

Say, maybe that's the solution, the Frogs in France ought to bring
in an Italian to run things, one who would just appoint a dictator to
run things in the new world. ( I guess that means they need an
Italian with a brother. )


----------



## Jim Engel

Richard Rutt said:


> Best or worst is a relative term, based on someones perception, or even worse their feelings. But accomplishment is a matter of fact and record. Anyone who is interested need only go to the NARA web page and look under results and Champions to see up until ARF began in June of 2009 virtually all of the most accomplished dogs, decoys and handlers, still active in Ring, left to Join ARF, that is a matter of fact. That fact alone should make any reasonable person go Hmmm! You can sit by your computers and argue who is better or not, or BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I Simply say, SHOW ME YOUR DOG!
> 
> ARF is hosting the Cup of Champions the middle of Sept, 2010 teams from every country participating in FR have been invited. Spain, Mexico, and the D.R. have confirmed attendance as well as 2 teams from NARA. The dog Jason is currently training has been invited, but has not replied, as of yet. this is a wonderful opportunity to promote and support the Sport you love with no personalities or computers keyboards involved.
> 
> So here is your chance,
> 
> Show us your dog.


So, Richard, is what you are suggesting is that all of these nice
people need to save up some money, go to France for a few
months or weeks, buy a trained or partially trained dog, spend
months in France training with the French, and then come back
and show everybody the dog ?


----------



## Richard Rutt

Jim Engel said:


> So, Richard, is what you are suggesting is that all of these nice
> people need to save up some money, go to France for a few
> months or weeks, buy a trained or partially trained dog, spend
> months in France training with the French, and then come back
> and show everybody the dog ?


No Jim, although please feel free to try that. I can't speak as what the other countries, or groups will use as their qualifications to send a team, but most likely the three teams representing ARF are dogs that have earned all of their titles in the US and have been here most if not their entire life.


----------



## Wawashkashi Tashi

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> That way when they decide to trial, if they decide to **** a decoy to get better scores, they will have to go queer. LOL
> ****ing a decoy to get better scores. Can you imagine the lack of shame ??


[email protected]! I'll have to remember that.. I was just doing it to not have to pay for _training_! 8-[ :lol:


----------



## David Ruby

Wawashkashi Tashi said:


> [email protected]! I'll have to remember that.. I was just doing it to not have to pay for _training_! 8-[ :lol:


Is it wrong that I laughed at that? I was thinking Bill should post more. I feel doubly so now. =D> Just kidding Bill (well, if you read this, you should post more, but not necessarily for this). I love a good sense of humor though. Thanks Tashi!

-Cheers


----------



## Connie Sutherland

David Ruby said:


> Is it wrong that I laughed at that?
> 
> -Cheers


I hope not, because I cracked up. :lol: :lol:


----------



## Craig Wood

Wawashkashi Tashi said:


> [email protected]! I'll have to remember that.. I was just doing it to not have to pay for _training_! 8-[ :lol:


I have not started to trial yet but if that is what it takes I am here to say the only thing that will suck in my French Ring career will be my scores.


----------



## Tamara McIntosh

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> That way when they decide to trial, if they decide to **** a decoy to get better scores, they will have to go queer. LOL
> 
> ****ing a decoy to get better scores. Can you imagine the lack of shame ??


Dude some of those decoys are smokin hot! No better scores required, if I was single and young again, it would be absolutely free!!!

Tamara McIntosh


----------



## Geoff Empey

*Re: American French Ring - Just like Groundhog day at the movies..*



Debbie Skinner said:


> I don't think it's black and white as far as emotions, hurt feels, bad blood, etc. That's why I refuse to talk about that.
> 
> Just talking about policy, rules and regulations which should be "black and white" imo.
> 
> I'm trying to keep the emotions out of it and just suggest: France recognizes both organizations. If people can compete at all French recognized trials in the USA with the scores recognized by all SCC recognized organizations, this is a positive thing as there are more trials and more choices of clubs and training venues.
> 
> How is this a bad thing from a working dog point of view? Politically for those in power, etc in the different organizations it may not be, but I'm talking about the "big picture".
> 
> No assumptions as it's prefaced with "IF" this is true.
> 
> If it's not true regarding SCC recognition, please present the facts that support this.
> 
> It becomes much easier to do the correct things when you follow the rules and regulations, it's like a road map for good behavior. Does not matter who is your friend, competition, enemy, etc. if the rules are followed it keeps people's heads on straight so to speak. It leaves out the part where people can "do what they feel like doing" or "now I have a chance to get even". etc. etc.


I don't know all the ins and outs of the SCC but I understand (may be wrong) that they have no jurisdiction in North America. 

re: the rest of your post I hear you Debbie .. That's where us as rank and file members of our perspective organizations would hope that sanity and dialog would prevail. But instead we have misogynistical remarks about other orgs BOD. Personally I find that quite demeaning even if all the rules are put in place in the world there comes a point where you'd think as founders of an organization that wants and demands respect, you'd give it. 

I know it is hard to keep emotions out of it. It is a passionate sport that brings out emotion in everyone involved. Again it is up to the powers that be to have that foresight to move forward. If not the big picture is ... we all suffer as 'enthusiasts' might as well go back to herding.


----------



## Wawashkashi Tashi

Originally Posted by *David Ruby*  
_Is it wrong that I laughed at that? 

-Cheers_



Connie Sutherland said:


> I hope not, because I cracked up. :lol: :lol:


Mission accomplished! \\/


----------



## Carol Boche

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Dude some of those decoys are smokin hot! No better scores required, if I was single and young again, it would be absolutely free!!!
> 
> Tamara McIntosh


LMAO at Tamara....I am sure you speak for a few more than just yourself....I agree...there are some HOT decoys out there....:-\":-#:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


----------



## Debbie Skinner

*Re: American French Ring - Just like Groundhog day at the movies..*



Geoff Empey said:


> I know it is hard to keep emotions out of it. It is a passionate sport that brings out emotion in everyone involved. Again it is up to the powers that be to have that foresight to move forward. If not the big picture is ... we all suffer as 'enthusiasts' might as well go back to herding.


Or, hiking with my dogs and dock diving, which is very fun and non-political. ](*,)

Maybe the big decisions like whether NARA should recognize ARF and such should be decided by the current folks competing in ring right now and not the "powers that be currently in charge". 

The competitors have the most to gain or lose by such important decisions in their sport. 

Just a suggestion, maybe have them vote and the votes collected by an impartial entity. Everyone that has at least one score sheet or a decoy book with a signature in it for 2009-2010. 

I'm not trialing or a member of either organization right now. Thought this my be a way to make things better for ring in the USA.


----------



## David Feliciano

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Dude some of those decoys are smokin hot! No better scores required, if I was single and young again, it would be absolutely free!!!
> 
> Tamara McIntosh





Carol Boche said:


> LMAO at Tamara....I am sure you speak for a few more than just yourself....I agree...there are some HOT decoys out there....:-\":-#:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


Settle down ladies, you're embarassing me. 8-[


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Dude some of those decoys are smokin hot! No better scores required, if I was single and young again, it would be absolutely free!!!
> 
> Tamara McIntosh



Is that why you put on 100 seminars a year up in the great white north?

I see what this is all about, sweaty men in padded suits. 
hahahahahahahaha.


----------



## Tamara McIntosh

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> Is that why you put on 100 seminars a year up in the great white north?
> 
> I see what this is all about, sweaty men in padded suits.
> hahahahahahahaha.


I don't bring in uglies either!! Bwaaaahaaaa! 

I mean no, I only look for quality training... that comes in a spectacular package!

And Ted.. they don't always wear their suits... most wear tight little spandex underwear! Drool zone! It may be added motivation... just sayin'.

Tamara McIntosh


----------



## Butch Cappel

Thanks Tashi!!!


----------



## Cate Helfgott

Wawashkashi Tashi said:


> [email protected]! I'll have to remember that.. I was just doing it to not have to pay for _training_! 8-[ :lol:


is there a free one up where you are  I'll keep that in mind too :-o

lmao @ Tamara...it's true!!!

~Cate


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ****ing a decoy to get better scores. Can you imagine the lack of shame ??


Scandalous


----------



## Wawashkashi Tashi

*Cate*



Cate Helfgott said:


> is there a free one up where you are  I'll keep that in mind too :-o
> ~Cate


This one :-\" :
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/J-Kh2OKdiJQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/J-Kh2OKdiJQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

In case the inbed doesn't work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Kh2OKdiJQ


----------



## Christen Adkins

Tamara McIntosh said:


> I don't bring in uglies either!! Bwaaaahaaaa!
> 
> I mean no, I only look for quality training... that comes in a spectacular package!
> 
> And Ted.. they don't always wear their suits... most wear tight little spandex underwear! Drool zone! It may be added motivation... just sayin'.
> 
> Tamara McIntosh


So whens your next seminar, Tamara?! :-\"


----------



## Zakia Days

Hey. Not everyone sucks as a trainer or has a sucky dog.=; Some people might just know how to fix their dog in a day. Congrats to everyone that participated and improved.=D>



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So you fixed a dog that broke the line of departure 3 times in less than a day ??
> 
> I have trialed, and 2nd day is always worse. So look at the scores, they all improved the second day ??
> 
> C'mon.


----------



## Cate Helfgott

Tashi...your my hero...LOL! Meeeybe I can come up and train when the bouvinoisbermanbull gets a little older ;p



Christen Adkins said:


> So whens your next seminar, Tamara?! :-\"


Maybe we could do an event with a bunch of male decoys and female handlers...maybe auction them off for some charity or fundraiser...like a date auction...only this would be a decoy auction >. Could be big!!!

-Cate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Now this thread is heading in a Good Direction! :-\" I would like to see "pink" emotiocons for the women. :lol:


----------



## Zakia Days

Marcus Carroll said:


> Wow! This has gone off track. We have even gotten down to hormonal issues. All of this is because Jeff doesn't believe anyone can fail one day and pass the next. I looked at the mondio site and it was done in his sport 6 times last year. OMG! Start a thread. What I couldn't find was Jeff passing a trial. Makes since though since he doesn't know how to fix a line problem.


LOL!!!:lol: Good one Marcus!!!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Zak, what is your record in french ring ?? Just curious, as I just don't care enough to look.

http://www.usmondioring.org/02-19-10Lone Star Mondioring Club. Trial 12-12-09.pdf

Hey, theres a passing score.

http://www.usmondioring.org/02-19-10LSMRC Trial 12=13-2010.pdf 

Hey theres a passing score.

Where is YOUR dog at ?? You can see my dog on youtube. Never seen nor heard of your dog. Looks like it's put up or shut up time. 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

You and Marcus crack me up. Did someone PM you for support or what ??


----------



## Tamara McIntosh

Cate Helfgott said:


> Tashi...your my hero...LOL! Meeeybe I can come up and train when the bouvinoisbermanbull gets a little older ;p
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we could do an event with a bunch of male decoys and female handlers...maybe auction them off for some charity or fundraiser...like a date auction...only this would be a decoy auction >. Could be big!!!
> 
> -Cate


That is a great idea! If I could get enough of them in one place to justify it, I would be all over that. We are pretty decoy starved up here... hehehe.. well any decoy starved. Our club decoy does look like a younger, fitter Steven Segal tho.

Tamara McIntosh


----------



## FRANKIE COWEN

How can i get into that auction, i want to be the 3rd canidate or second fist one in any auction is always looked over to much lol

frankie c


----------



## Joby Becker

FRANKIE COWEN said:


> How can i get into that auction, i want to be the 3rd canidate or second fist one in any auction is always looked over to much lol
> 
> frankie c


Second fist???


----------



## Diana Abel

*Re: Cate*



Wawashkashi Tashi said:


> This one :-\" :
> <object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/J-Kh2OKdiJQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/J-Kh2OKdiJQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
> 
> In case the inbed doesn't work:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Kh2OKdiJQ


MERCY! I know which way Cate is headed the next time yall train! lol


----------



## jason farrish

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Dude some of those decoys are smokin hot! No better scores required, if I was single and young again, it would be absolutely free!!!
> 
> Tamara McIntosh


----------



## Cate Helfgott

LOL, I think Tashi volunteered contestant number one...now we have contestant number two! Who is going to be three?!? Come on now boys; step right up!! Volunteer for the good of the group!!  This is important stuff here!!! :-\"

~Cate


----------



## Marcus Carroll

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Zak, what is your record in french ring ?? Just curious, as I just don't care enough to look.
> 
> http://www.usmondioring.org/02-19-10Lone Star Mondioring Club. Trial 12-12-09.pdf
> 
> Hey, theres a passing score.
> 
> http://www.usmondioring.org/02-19-10LSMRC Trial 12=13-2010.pdf
> 
> Hey theres a passing score.
> 
> Where is YOUR dog at ?? You can see my dog on youtube. Never seen nor heard of your dog. Looks like it's put up or shut up time.
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
> 
> You and Marcus crack me up. Did someone PM you for support or what ??



Wow!! 7,978 posts. 2 passing scores.


----------



## Tamara McIntosh

jason farrish said:


>


WOW, that Orient Express is HOT!!!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Wow!! 7,978 posts. 2 passing scores.

13 posts and not a clue WOW.

The battle of wits against the unarmed is boring kid.


----------



## David Frost

Tamara McIntosh said:


> WOW, that Orient Express is HOT!!!


Do I see a 2011 WDF Decoy Calendar in the offing? ha ha. 

DFrost


----------



## Nicole Stark

I'm into motorheads myself, but what the heck a hot guy is a hot guy! I'd buy one...


----------



## Jennifer Marshall

Nicole Stark said:


> I'm into motorheads myself, but what the heck a hot guy is a hot guy! I'd buy one...


A hot guy or a calendar :mrgreen:


----------



## Nicole Stark

Both, of course (BIG EVIL GRIN) Now where might I find an emoticon with a whip??


----------



## Joby Becker

Nicole Stark said:


> Both, of course (BIG EVIL GRIN) Now where might I find an emoticon with a whip??


These motorheads let YOU whip THEM?


----------



## Nicole Stark

Joby Becker said:


> These motorheads let YOU whip THEM?


Every time....:-\"


----------



## Jennifer Marshall

You'd have fun in my neck of the woods, Nicole. My brother the track mechanic for our race team(drag racing). We are starting a new team next season once I finish proving my driving skills and am allowed behind the wheel of one of the nice cars. We are gonna be Gang Green Race Team  Sport dogs and sport cars LOL

I think a decoy calendar would be a great idea... and sorry for contributing to the OT discussion!


----------



## Nicole Stark

LOL sounds like it. My sense of humor gets a little out of control sometimes. Now back to the question about the direction of the NARA!


----------



## Tamara McIntosh

Jennifer Marshall said:


> You'd have fun in my neck of the woods, Nicole. My brother the track mechanic for our race team(drag racing). We are starting a new team next season once I finish proving my driving skills and am allowed behind the wheel of one of the nice cars. We are gonna be Gang Green Race Team  Sport dogs and sport cars LOL
> 
> I think a decoy calendar would be a great idea... and sorry for contributing to the OT discussion!


The decoy calender has been an idea of mine for a couple of years now. I wanted to get some good pics of the decoys when they came thru here for training/trials. But some of the decoys are shy.... some aren't tho. maybe I can make it a reality this year. Then again there has to be time for the guys to do a good photoshoot... and we are always too busy training. 

A good friend of mine is awesome with graphic design and creates calenders for other organizations.... maybe I should put more thought into this....

So ladies.... bare chest pics??? half suited up pics?? What do you girls want???

Tamara McIntosh


----------



## Cate Helfgott

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cate Helfgott

Wooops! Sorry about that! Maybe we could do a series of ea. Decoy . Like have the smexy shot (Jason did a good pose ...I'm also thinking muscle, sweat, and spandex (not gonna lie...rear view girl here...generally notice the back from the shoulders down before anything else ) and then maybe in the corner have a good action shot of the decoy catching the dog...or have that shot be the picture square down on the calender portion of the spread :3. 

Maybe we should have a contest and vote...club members can nominate decoys...take some preliminary shots...then we can have a vote / pole somehwere to choose the winning contestants 

(I'm not a female pig...I promise O,o)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bob Scott

David Frost said:


> Do I see a 2011 WDF Decoy Calendar in the offing? ha ha.
> 
> DFrost


David, I got September covered on the FOG (love that, gonna use it) calendar. What you going for?:lol::lol::wink:


----------



## Michelle Reusser

Tamara McIntosh said:


> The decoy calender has been an idea of mine for a couple of years now. I wanted to get some good pics of the decoys when they came thru here for training/trials. But some of the decoys are shy.... some aren't tho. maybe I can make it a reality this year. Then again there has to be time for the guys to do a good photoshoot... and we are always too busy training.
> 
> A good friend of mine is awesome with graphic design and creates calenders for other organizations.... maybe I should put more thought into this....
> 
> So ladies.... bare chest pics??? half suited up pics?? What do you girls want???
> 
> Tamara McIntosh


 
I vote for suit pants on, no jacket or shirt, just the suspenders...leg biting dog optional. Do a few push-ups guys, before you take the pix. :-\"


----------



## Nicole Stark

Would that be like a Tenacious D push up? 

Imagine Jeff's horror when he comes back and discovers what you naughty girls have done to his thread! Shame on ALL of you for such filth!! ... can I take the pictures?


----------



## Michelle Reusser

Nicole Stark said:


> Would that be like a Tenacious D push up?
> 
> Imagine Jeff's horror when he comes back and discovers what you naughty girls have done to his thread! Shame on ALL of you for such filth!! ... can I take the pictures?


 
What's a Tenacious D PU?

Oh please, with all the boobie comments and drool from the blondes Tiger poked, we are due.
With my camera.


----------



## Nicole Stark

Michelle Kehoe said:


> What's a Tenacious D PU?.


Well I think it's not quite something that can be explained but this video clip will do. It came in real handy at a critical point in the film. Almost saved the day you might say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zomOYQHzg40


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## Jerry Cudahy

The Direction of Nara, 

I am not even sure if Nara has any.

jmo

jc


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Holy shit it's Jerry. Got that video of G'Vitou ??


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## Jerry Cudahy

jeff oehlsen said:


> holy shit it's jerry. Got that video of g'vitou ??


 
*yes \\:d/*


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## Carol Boche

> I vote for suit pants on, no jacket or shirt, just the suspenders...leg biting dog optional. Do a few push-ups guys, before you take the pix. :-\"


Kind of like this????










\\/\\/\\/


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You need to quit being a hog and put those up. History being wasted. : )


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## Nicole Stark

Oh my, took me a moment before I could respond but YES!  Was responding to Carol, not Jeff's post.


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## Candy Eggert

Carol Boche said:


> Kind of like this????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \\/\\/\\/


Not just Yes, but HELL YES!! I'm changing sports for sure now ;-)~

=P~=P~=P~


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## Carol Boche

Nicole Stark said:


> Oh my, took me a moment before I could respond but YES!


LOL.....FF calendar shoots are really FUN!!!

I am trying to find the Law Enforcement on I have too....whew.....they have their dogs with them too.....and to be honest, it is hard to look at the dogs.....LMAO....


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## Nicole Stark

Carol Boche said:


> LOL.....FF calendar shoots are really FUN!!!
> 
> I am trying to find the Law Enforcement on I have too....whew.....they have their dogs with them too.....and to be honest, it is hard to look at the dogs.....LMAO....


Oh? Yes, that too. A military one would be better, but make sure the guns are in it with them. (eye wide open teeth gritted), HA!


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## Carol Boche

Looking for military for ya....

BUT, let's not leave the boys out (Doug likes this one): 











Sorry to derail your thread Jeff........


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I had a thread ??


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## Carol Boche

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I had a thread ??


Well, you started it, and then we got derailed on HOT decoys....LMAO


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## Nicole Stark

Now wouldn't that be a great story line? Picture it, 1890 in the Wild West, a band of women on horses race of to a train and hop on board robbing all the helpless men of their precious possessions. Stripping every shred of clothing from them except gun belts and chaps. 

I really meant it when I said I had nothing to contribute to this forum. This is just further proof.\\/


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## Cate Helfgott

Carol Boche said:


> Kind of like this????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \\/\\/\\/


YESYESYESYES!!! (Jumps up and down). 

Nicole...in my estimation you are contributing plenty! I love it! I think all conflicted threads should end up along this vein!!!

-Cate

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lee H Sternberg

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I had a thread ??


Jeff, I see now what you mean about writing a book about bar stories. Look what's going on in a dog forum!#-o :lol:


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## Nicole Stark

Ya, and your cock fighting thread contributed quite a lot I imagine. I'm mildly retarded and left handed. These faults cover most of my bad behaviors and when it doesn't being a woman explains the rest pretty well I think. Now, where were we ladies? If anyone mentions thongs though, I'm outta here!


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## Lee H Sternberg

Nicole Stark said:


> Ya, and your cock fighting thread contributed quite a lot I imagine. I'm mildly retarded and left handed. These faults cover most of my bad behaviors and when it doesn't being a woman explains the rest pretty well I think. Now, where were we ladies? If anyone mentions thongs though, I'm outta here!


A tad defensive aren't we, Nicole.:-\"

Just joking around.

I'd prefer some mud wrestling to cock fights any day.:lol:


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## Nicole Stark

Lee H Sternberg said:


> A tad defensive aren't we, Nicole.:-\"
> 
> Just joking around.
> 
> I'd prefer some mud wrestling to cock fights any day.:lol:


Let's see making parallels in one hand, defensive in the other. Since we're talking about leading things astray in a WDF or in other words lack of relevancy, I'm going with the parallels relationship over being defensive. After all, in order to be defensive about this I'd have to feel some level of insecurity about something I've contributed which is being questioned. There's none here, I admit it freely. I'm naughty and it seems the truth is finally out. I'm a wild child at heart :twisted:, with a whip fettish . Ever notice how the crack of a whip sounds a little like a .22? (heart racing)...

Yes, I'm teasing you Lee. But you might be onto something down there, instead of a cock fighting pit start up a mud wrestling one!


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## Jennifer Marshall

Ok. So now we need some mud wrestling decoy pics too.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Nicole Stark said:


> Let's see making parallels in one hand, defensive in the other. Since we're talking about leading things astray in a WDF or in other words lack of relevancy, I'm going with the parallels relationship over being defensive. After all, in order to be defensive about this I'd have to feel some level of insecurity about something I've contributed which is being questioned. There's none here, I admit it freely. I'm naughty and it seems the truth is finally out. I'm a wild child at heart :twisted:, with a whip fettish . Ever notice how the crack of a whip sounds a little like a .22? (heart racing)...
> 
> Yes, I'm teasing you Lee. But you might be onto something down there, instead of a cock fighting pit start up a mud wrestling one!


Would you consider helping me put on a show right after the cock fights?\\/


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## Maren Bell Jones

Carol Boche said:


> Kind of like this????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \\/\\/\\/


Carol, you're a woman after my own heart. :lol:


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## Nicole Stark

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Would you consider helping me put on a show right after the cock fights?\\/


Sure just as soon as our calendar is complete. I'll be right over.


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## Cate Helfgott

Maybe we need a picture of a smexy decoy catching a dog on his leg with his top off holding a rifle. Does that about cover all your bases Nicole 

~Cate


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## Lee H Sternberg

Nicole Stark said:


> Sure just as soon as our calendar is complete. I'll be right over.


Great! Whips, chains and mud fight s will blow the Costa Rican machista men's minds. We can go on tour!:lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg

Cate Helfgott said:


> Maybe we need a picture of a smexy decoy catching a dog on his leg with his top off holding a rifle. Does that about cover all your bases Nicole
> 
> ~Cate


No, you forgot the whip!


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## Nicole Stark

(big roaring laughter). I bet it would. =D>

Cate - hmmmm, no. Sexy dudes are usually a bit too metro for me. Let's go with real men if we do this. Make sure they got at least a few good scars on them and we should be set. It's a Rambo thing, ya know.


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## kellie pulido

My goodness this certainly ended up in a nice direction hooray for the girls!!


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## Cate Helfgott

Lee H Sternberg said:


> No, you forgot the whip!


Oh crap...I think I forgot the vehicle too! Should the decoy been on the hood of some badass car or truck with the dog coming up to get his leg...rifle in one hand, whip in the other, chest exposed and sweat or mud gleaming of muscles?

Dude -- when I say sexy I mean muscle, experience, sweat. Manly men. Rugged. I am in the Army after all!

We need the headband for rambo.

~Cate


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## Nicole Stark

Cate Helfgott said:


> Oh crap...I think I forgot the vehicle too! Should the decoy been on the hood of some badass car or truck with the dog coming up to get his leg...rifle in one hand, whip in the other, chest exposed and sweat or mud gleaming of muscles?
> 
> Dude -- when I say sexy I mean muscle, experience, sweat. Manly men. Rugged. I am in the Army after all!
> 
> We need the headband for rambo.
> 
> ~Cate


There you go, that about covers everything. Whew, I need a drink. Or something... I think I'm gonna go outside and watch the guys in the Muni vehicles push around all those tons of snow. I wonder which of them might be packing? :-$ I can only wonder....


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## Lee H Sternberg

Cate Helfgott said:


> Oh crap...I think I forgot the vehicle too! Should the decoy been on the hood of some badass car or truck with the dog coming up to get his leg...rifle in one hand, whip in the other, chest exposed and sweat or mud gleaming of muscles?
> 
> Dude -- when I say sexy I mean muscle, experience, sweat. Manly men. Rugged. I am in the Army after all!
> 
> We need the headband for rambo.
> 
> ~Cate


I'm an old guy. i somehow got in the middle of this chick fest because I wisecracked. I think I'm starting to get scared. Maybe!:smile:

Or maybe not!


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## Nicole Stark

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I'm an old guy. i somehow got in the middle of this chick fest because I wisecracked. I think I'm starting to get scared. Maybe!:smile:
> 
> Or maybe not!


Oh come on, play along with us from far off in Jungle Land. \\/ We're just condensing a years worth of these kind of fantasies into one nice little thread. 

We could call the calendar the WDF NARA calendar of 2011 (Nasty Armed Ripped Animals). Finding the dogs in it might be a little like finding Waldo though with all our necessary props. 

Ooops, the truckers are back. See ya!


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## Christopher Jones

While Australia has some hot women, unfortunatly the ranks of the working dog world hasnt been so lucky here. After we heard about the Finnish working dog ladies stripping down to their underware for a calaneder they did it here also. The project had to be scrapped because we ended up getting sued by Disney. They were of the opinion that the photos were too close to the characters in "Monsters Inc".


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## Jeff Oehlsen

And how would that be different here ??

This is exactly how I see NARA. Bla bla bla Oh shit we have a trial, better get the powderpuff judge because we have been running off at the mouth. 


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

Good one Chris !


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## Lee H Sternberg

Christopher Jones said:


> While Australia has some hot women, unfortunatly the ranks of the working dog world hasnt been so lucky here. After we heard about the Finnish working dog ladies stripping down to their underware for a calaneder they did it here also. The project had to be scrapped because we ended up getting sued by Disney. They were of the opinion that the photos were too close to the characters in "Monsters Inc".


So what would you say if the WDF ladies are a bunch of HOTTIES? Huh? Huh? 

See, I'm sticking up for you ladies. I hope you don't let me down.

I believe in you guys!


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## Carol Boche

Lee H Sternberg said:


> So what would you say if the WDF ladies are a bunch of HOTTIES? Huh? Huh?
> 
> See, I'm sticking up for you ladies. I hope you don't let me down.


We are HOT....we can handle a dog, are able to hold our own without sniveling and whining to others, as well as being good at hunting, fishing, cooking and knockin em back with the best of them.....

fake boobs and anorexic looks and complaning we got dirty be damned.....LMAO.....


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## Christopher Jones

Lee H Sternberg said:


> So what would you say if the WDF ladies are a bunch of HOTTIES? Huh? Huh?
> 
> See, I'm sticking up for you ladies. I hope you don't let me down.
> 
> I believe in you guys!


From my observation there is a couple of WDF ladies who might look quite good in such a calender, but no names will ever leave my lips or keyboard...lol


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## Cate Helfgott

We've got some smexy ladies with some nice tats from what I hear. I nominate Carol for the cover of WDF ladies!!!!!

For WDF men/decoys I still think we need a photo poll. I'll volunteer my camera for the taking of the pictures ;p


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Carol Boche

Cate Helfgott said:


> We've got some smexy ladies with some nice tats from what I hear. I nominate Carol for the cover of WDF ladies!!!!!
> 
> For WDF men/decoys I still think we need a photo poll. I'll volunteer my camera for the taking of the pictures ;p
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



LOL Cate....you take the cover...that tat is too good to waste....


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## Cate Helfgott

Psh, naw...I'm not that photogenic...it's why I'm behind the camera 90% of the time!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nicole Stark

Ah, Mr Jones always the gentleman you are. We'll have a place for you in our calendar too. Looks like you can wield a stick/whip pretty good! Cate, great idea. Take it away Carol! How about a 'Santa Baby' theme with a Christmas puppy for her to get things rolling?


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## Carol Boche

Nicole Stark said:


> Take it away Carol! How about a 'Santa Baby' theme with a Christmas puppy for her to get things rolling?


Hey....December? Ski clothes.....I'm good....AHAHAHAHA


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## Michelle Reusser

Carol Boche said:


> Kind of like this????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \\/\\/\\/


 
Carol,

EXACTLY like that!


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## Guest

Yeah, but I _gaurantee_ this guy is way more fun to hang-out with:










Far less distracted by scheduled protein drinks, working-out and sleeping (all on the clock of course...oh those brave over-worked fireguys).


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## Tim Lynam

Hey Steven,

That officer has to be that heavy to have a long enough belt to carry all that gear. It's either that or bandoleers...


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## Nicole Stark

He probably is fun to hang out with. I figure any guy with a gut like that is probably a beer drinker, so I'll let that kinda fella pass after all he does have a uniform on and probably has a gun somewhere in that mess but where the hell is his ass??? :-k


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## Bob Scott

Nicole Stark said:


> He probably is fun to hang out with. I figure any guy with a gut like that is probably a beer drinker, so I'll let that kinda fella pass after all he does have a uniform on and probably has a gun somewhere in that mess but where the hell is his ass??? :-k


I thought my wife gives me two new wallets every yr for my Bday cause she didn't have any idea what else to get for me. 
Turns out it's so I at least LOOK like I got an ass. One for each pocket! 8-[
I found out when I asked her once if my new Levis made my butt look big. She answered "Oh hell no! You left both wallets on your dresser."
Wimmins is jest cold hearted.....but I luvs em all! :wink:


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## Nicole Stark

Bob Scott said:


> I thought my wife gives me two new wallets every yr for my Bday cause she didn't have any idea what else to get for me.
> 
> Turns out it's so I at least LOOK like I got an ass. /QUOTE]'
> 
> 
> That was AWESOME! Thanks for the laugh.


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## Carol Boche

Steven Lepic said:


> Yeah, but I _gaurantee_ this guy is way more fun to hang-out with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Far less distracted by scheduled protein drinks, working-out and sleeping (all on the clock of course...oh those brave over-worked fireguys).


Well....you may be right, but, at least firefighters don't have to make two trips to haul ass......


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Carol Boche said:


> Kind of like this????


I was thinking about it.. IMO a nice flee attack w/ the helper wearing just a sleeve & an *apron* would be preferable!! [-o<


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## Nicole Stark

Sure we can use that one for May. It was the apron which made me think of a Mother's Day parallel.  Now for June, my favorite month. We can go with a "Who's your Daddy?" theme. We can use my whip prop in that one don't ya think? Maybe this one can be in uniform. Ah yes, that sounds real nice.


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Nicole Stark said:


> Maybe this one can be in uniform. Ah yes, that sounds real nice.


I know a couple hot K9 Handlers that also take bites! :wink:


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