# What Do You Wish Your Vet Would Do?



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

So I'm taking this optional class about how to manage your own vet practice and they want us to brain storm on how to make our practice really stand out to the clients. In other words, go that extra mile and find a niche, especially since there's so many small animal vets and there's a decent amount of competition. Since I'll probably do some mixed practice and/or be a veterinary behaviorist, I had a couple ideas (ex: giving a dog a Kong to work on while getting its shots or clipping nails instead of manhandling the dog with 5 vet techs), but I'm posting this question on a couple of the pet forums I'm on to get some more ideas. As pet and/or working dog owners, what do you wish your vet would do that they don't currently? Or, if they do something you really like, please share.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Something that I love about my vet in Orlando is the layout of the building. They have their reception area in the middle, with 4 exam rooms with windows to the reception area and rear exit doors on both ends of the building. If you go to Exam room 1 and 2, you circle thru a corridor behind the reception, worst case scenario you run into 1 other dog who is on their way out (but can be avoided by correctly timing when to send patients into the rooms), exam room 3 and 4 are accessed thru a corridor on the other side. The "staff only" area is in the middle of the exam rooms, so the vets and techs have a clear shot into either the exam rooms or straight into the reception area.

This way, there is absolutely minimal contact between your dog and other patients dogs, theres usually 0-2 people in the waiting room, you never have to leave your exam room to pay your bill, and you exit out the side so you dont have to go thru the waiting room again on your way out.

I also like that the receptionist I always deal with remembers my first and last name, as well as all the names of my dogs lol. But she owns 5 GSD's and loves Cujo, so thats probably why


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So I'm taking this optional class about how to manage your own vet practice and they want us to brain storm on how to make our practice really stand out to the clients. In other words, go that extra mile and find a niche, especially since there's so many small animal vets and there's a decent amount of competition. Since I'll probably do some mixed practice and/or be a veterinary behaviorist, I had a couple ideas (ex: giving a dog a Kong to work on while getting its shots or clipping nails instead of manhandling the dog with 5 vet techs), but I'm posting this question on a couple of the pet forums I'm on to get some more ideas. As pet and/or working dog owners, what do you wish your vet would do that they don't currently? Or, if they do something you really like, please share.


Good question Maren.

What I like about my vet is that he really takes the time to explain and tell you whats going on and more important WHY. You get the feeling that you are being included and rightly so seeing as it is MY dog. He also takes the time to make the dog at ease before sticking needles in etc and always asks if the procedure to be done as he would like to do it, is ok with me too.

One thing I hate, is when you get all these latin and vet jargon stuff thrown at you or that the vet is constantly looking at the clock while you are asking him questions and especially when you get the bill at the end of the consult, I think he should take the time to explain.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Mike, yes, I've definitely heard that building layout is really important. One of the vets I shadowed with had two doors in the exam rooms (which were in the middle of the building) and when you were done, you went out through the other door which lead to the other side of the waiting room/reception area where you pay. I thought that to be helpful. And I've heard a big thing to offend people is forgetting what the dog's name or gender is. Oops..


Hil, right you are! My current vet is kind of a rusher as she talks really fast, which is rather aggravating and one of the other vets in that clinic gave me a lecture on why the raw diet is bad because of salmonella. *rolls eyes* I restrained from saying that I was a big girl with a masters in biology and I could wash my hands for myself, thanks. I am thinking of going to another one honestly, but at least they are understanding about the vaccinosis thing and don't push me too much on it.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I also wish my vet would charge less.

You should work on that angle for sure


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

And yes, my vet has always been very good about referring to your dog like he knows everything about him. Even if he wasnt the vet to see me previously, or if my dog went to a specialist for something, I am pretty sure that he studies the file pretty carefully before walking into the room, because he always knows exactly whats been going on seemingly from memory. While I know he most likely read the file 2 minutes earlier, its still nice that he makes the effort to be up to date on whats going on with my dogs.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I would prefer that my dog remain on the floor versus having to be lifted onto the examining table for routine exams/shots etc. I do understand that bending over or taking a knee is stress (physical...as in back, knees etc) on the vet/vet tech when you consider how many times they may be required to do this per day BUT providing steps a dog may easily walk up would really be helpful for at least the older dogs, if a vet prefers that they be on the table.


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

I would love if when I took a dog to the vet I had somewhere to wait where there were no other dogs there. Maybe some sort of cubicals where you could sit and wait without a ton of other dogs two feet away.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I am not fussy about the office layout, waiting rooms or that kind of thing but I something that would make a vet stand out in my eyes is any actual recognition of the physical, health and nutritional requirements/concerns of working/athletic dogs. Also vets that do not treat the owner as too stupid to understand and try to oversimplify all their explanations - I can understand words with more than 2 syllables. 
Also alot of pet vets don't seem very skilled at doing ortho assessments and I hate taking a dog in and paying 50 bucks for something that is done very half-assed.


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## Leo Hinojosa (Sep 4, 2007)

We have several vets that we deal with. 
For rabies shots we just go down the street as it is near us and the cost is not that much different than any other vet. I hate that I can not have a business account with them. But they are a small clinic and can do most things that I need.

For X rays and other complicated work I go to a different clinic, it is much larger and they do allow a business account. The doctors are respected and because of others who take their dogs to the clinic they are at least aware there are those of us who own working dogs.

For the most part I believe you must trust those who work with your dog. If you do not trust the vet, walk out. 

Leo


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I would prefer that my dog remain on the floor versus having to be lifted onto the examining table for routine exams/shots etc. I do understand that bending over or taking a knee is stress (physical...as in back, knees etc) on the vet/vet tech when you consider how many times they may be required to do this per day BUT providing steps a dog may easily walk up would really be helpful for at least the older dogs, if a vet prefers that they be on the table.


One of the reasons dogs and cats are put on the table is to "take them out of their element" with the idea that they are less inclined to be fractious. But I suppose this would depend on the dog and cat. My vet doesn't mind mind the larger dogs being on the ground at all. One of the vets I shadowed with got a brand new table that the dog steps up on and the table raises by hydraulics. Apparently the dogs didn't seem to be inclined to jump off while it was being raised.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Greg Leavitt said:


> I would love if when I took a dog to the vet I had somewhere to wait where there were no other dogs there. Maybe some sort of cubicals where you could sit and wait without a ton of other dogs two feet away.


Actually, that gives me a good idea. If the waiting room of the building was small (as many are), perhaps having an outdoor sort of waiting area when the weather is nice out where you can walk and potty the dog for dogs coming in for just routine wellness checks? Perhaps the reception could even give you one of those vibrating flashing pager thingies they give you at restaurants so you know your table is ready.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

my wish would be a vet that 1) doesn't treat me like an idiot 2) uses language i understand, and makes SURE i'm "with" him/her 3) understands that I AM the owner and therefore MUST be involved in informed decision-making...ie, a vet that takes the time to know me enough to treat me and my pets with respect and compassion.

i wish the same for a physician (we just lost ours to the VA of all places--he would take all the time needed to answer questions, explain stuff, etc. he wouldn't leave until you were comfortable with what was going on).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

My vet (vet group) has an enclosed courtyard that you can get to only through their inside sliding door (not from the street or parking lot) so that if a dog is either posturing or uneasy with other animals, you can go out there.

I would want my vet to keep well dogs who are there for a day (tests, grooming, drop-off dogsitting) in a completely separate building, or at the very least in a separate wing. I don't like it that the kennels for sick dogs and well dogs are all in one area.

I would like it if the vet presented paperwork up front giving or NOT giving the vet authority to administer vaccinations while the dog is there for a different purpose.

I agree with the steps up to the table. A large-breed arthritic senior who doesn't mind being on the table but DOES have trouble getting there could use that. They are cheap and portable. They even have wheelie ones that the wheels retract when you have it in place.

I would like to stay in the x-ray room and hold my dog's position (or at least speak to my dog) with a lead apron on rather than sedate my dog or use those weights to keep him motionless. Although the weights aren't bad.

I would like a discussion of prescription options and why one might be better than a cheaper one.

I would like the vet to present his/her view on fresh raw food but use zero scare tactics, and it would really add to my confidence if the first recommendation out of the vet's mouth was not the stuff in the waiting room.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Realistic prices for sure. The cheaper vets in town are swamped with business, and it is always a madhouse there. We have Alameda east raping people left and right, but only because people hope to see themselves on animal planet someday. I hear that a lot. I do not like the trend towards "**** you, the cost is gonna be 5000 dollars, can you pay me right now???? Somehow they tend to have forgotten that emergencies rarely happen when you are flush with cash. Most people will make good on their bill.

I would love to see a way to keep the people separated a bit more, as you always see some dumb ass somehow not getting their dog seriously hurt. Colorado is the all time champion for really dumb, and really good dog owners, with almost no middle.

Shots are almost pure profit, so really, do they need to cost 50 bucks??? There are a lot of people that only get shots if their dog gets caught by animal control, as the cost is too high.

Lastly, LOL Most people get off work too late to get to a lot of clinics, so maybe a second shift. Emergency vets here will stick it in your ass just for showing up. The vets there "upsell" procedures, to the tune of 4-500 bucks.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

That reminds me.

My vet does stay open from 6 a.m. until 7 p.m. five days and is open on Saturday a.m.

I don't know how working people could manage otherwise.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

GREAT ideas, guys, keep them coming. I'm getting a lot of both 1) I hate being talked down to and 2) I hate too much jargon. That's always going to be a difficult thing in this profession because you just never know that much about your clients. Clientele is always going to range from complete moronic trailer trash to physicians and PhDs. I sometimes feel like I'm being immodest or whatever, but I likewise hate being talked down to, so if I have to go to a new vet (or doctor, for that matter), I try to throw in my credentials and background into the conversation somehow to show I'm not a complete newb.  

One of the professors here at the vet school had an amusing story about how he was out doing TB testing on a herd of cattle up in Michigan when someone made a mistake and he got trampled with a few broken ribs and a collapsed lung. When the ambulance came to get him, no one told them or the hospital staff that he was a vet and he couldn't talk due to the injuries. He said that always reminded him to not talk down to people because they didn't know of his medical background. Since many human and animal drugs are the same, it was a not fun lesson on not being condescending.

Would a little client background page to fill out be helpful when you first visit the clinic? Maybe ask what your dog experience is, if you do any training or competition, what your occupation is (not that we can necessarily gauge intelligence by occupation, mind you...), etc. I have also heard of some clinics taking a digital photo of the dog and putting it in with the file so when the doc comes out to do the exam, they'll put the name with the face.

Some of you guys also mentioned that you'd like to handle your own dogs. I'd have no problems having any of you handle your own dogs, but the average client wanting to hold their dog or cat is going to be a big liability and are in real danger of getting scratched or bitten (or worse). And that's when the law suits start. So that's what the techs are for. Unfortunately, the average tech is a female in her late teens to twenties who just likes to coo over the dogs and doesn't know how to really handle a fractious animal or how to read dog/cat behavior. Some dogs are actually more reactive when their humans are in the room because they perceive the nervousness of their humans. So I think it goes back to knowing your clients well. The average client I probably wouldn't let handle, but for knowledgeable folks, not much of a problem. Speaking of handling, I think also will probably not wear a lab coat either. As much as I like them (and so does Jeff apparently), their billowy movement can freak out some dogs.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

ann freier said:


> i wish the same for a physician (we just lost ours to the VA of all places--he would take all the time needed to answer questions, explain stuff, etc. he wouldn't leave until you were comfortable with what was going on).


Yeah, and that reminds me...I think we're really heading towards insurance plans for pets. It would be cheaper for responsible owners to get package deals on wellness plans, spay/neuters, heartworm/flea & tick, dentals, etc. Also if you can pick what you want out of the plan cafeteria (like getting an extra couple doses for Frontline or whatever in lieu of the yearly vaccination if they are inclined to do that). But come to think of it, the lady teaching the practice management class was saying that the average vet clinic is much much faster on lab tests and x-rays, getting your prescription filled, being able to get in and out and not having to wait to see the doctor if you've got an appointment, and getting to spend more time with the vet doctor than the average human doctor. With most human doctors these days, it's like deal with the snotty receptionist to make an appointment way in advance, wait 15-30 minutes in the waiting room, wait another 15 minutes by yourself in the exam room, get an actual 5-10 minutes with the doctor where they usually don't know you by name any more, go across town to get the prescription filled, etc. 

One random idea I had was to get a bunch of smaller Kong type toys at a discounted wholesale rate and have a made up one for the client and the patient to work on either in the waiting area or in the exam room before or during the exam to minimize stress. Build the Kong into the price of the exam so they can take the toy home, but the furbaby crowd would probably eat it up.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Don't try and force your no raw diet/spay/neuter/personel opinions if they aren't asked for. ESPECIALLY comming from the receptionest. 
Example; Pete (JRT) was accidentally let outside by my live in, 94 yr old father in law. Great guy, BUT, Thunder DOES NOT LIKE PETE!
Anyhow, we made a trip to the emergency clinic cause my vet was closed. (late at night). 
Right off the bat this cute little brat behind the counter started telling me how this wouldn't have happened if I had my JRT neutered. 
I told her if she could find any nuts on him I'd give them a big kiss. Pete's neutered. 
At a different time I also had a vet tech insist on trying to trim my dog's nails "cause it was a free service". Damn near had to break her wrist to get he to let go of my snarling little bassad's leg.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Yeah, and that reminds me...I think we're really heading towards insurance plans for pets. It would be cheaper for responsible owners to get package deals on wellness plans, spay/neuters, heartworm/flea & tick, dentals, etc. Also if you can pick what you want out of the plan cafeteria (like getting an extra couple doses for Frontline or whatever in lieu of the yearly vaccination if they are inclined to do that). But come to think of it, the lady teaching the practice management class was saying that the average vet clinic is much much faster on lab tests and x-rays, getting your prescription filled, being able to get in and out and not having to wait to see the doctor if you've got an appointment, and getting to spend more time with the vet doctor than the average human doctor. With most human doctors these days, it's like deal with the snotty receptionist to make an appointment way in advance, wait 15-30 minutes in the waiting room, wait another 15 minutes by yourself in the exam room, get an actual 5-10 minutes with the doctor where they usually don't know you by name any more, go across town to get the prescription filled, etc.
> 
> One random idea I had was to get a bunch of smaller Kong type toys at a discounted wholesale rate and have a made up one for the client and the patient to work on either in the waiting area or in the exam room before or during the exam to minimize stress. Build the Kong into the price of the exam so they can take the toy home, but the furbaby crowd would probably eat it up.


The "stuff that the furbaby crowd eats up" that all the vets seem to be trying to institute in their practices seems to be the crap the pushes prices up and doesn't really add to the quality of the vet care. Usually the fancier the office furniture and the larger and more expansive the racks of fancy collars and crappy dog food means the prices are going to be out of this world. A Kong wouldn't impress me any if cause I would know it was padding the bill.

It might be different in the US but at vets here you handle your own animal - if they didn't I would walk out. Most vet techs don't seem very good at handling animals and do dumb stuff with them.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

> I have also heard of some clinics taking a digital photo of the dog and putting it in with the file so when the doc comes out to do the exam, they'll put the name with the face.


And a photo on the rabies certificates! There's a clinic here that does it. Very cool, professional and good for preventing fraud.



> Build the Kong into the price of the exam so they can take the toy home, but the furbaby crowd would probably eat it up.


Kongs do very nicely in the washing machine so having a clinic stock might work well too.



> If the waiting room of the building was small (as many are), perhaps having an outdoor sort of waiting area when the weather is nice out where you can walk and potty the dog for dogs coming in for just routine wellness checks? Perhaps the reception could even give you one of those vibrating flashing pager thingies they give you at restaurants so you know your table is ready.


I would LOVE that!


I HATE moochy-smootchy vets, techs and kennel staff. The way that they greet the dog (to satisfy the owner's emotional needs) is frigthening/alarming or downright rude to the dog. Plus it's a bit dangerous. I know of kennel staff that were instructed to greet the dogs this wasy - and then got bitten in the face. D'oh

Confidentiality. A reasonable amount. I stopped going to my favorite vet because she made some very innappropriate comments about me. Apperently my fostering rescue dogs and giving a dog one last chance gives me the reputation (in her eyes) of thinking dogs are "disposable".

I started using a vet that is extremely thorough in examining a working/sport dog. I appreciate that. 

I appreciate a vet that understands that sport dogs are kept thinner. The vets that know me and see my dogs for several health exams per year see how their physique and weight changes for the activity we are participating. If I just popped into to a new vet I would be told my dog is 10lbs to thin. Nothing has pissed me off more than bringing in a dog in beautiful, perfect condition and being told the dog is 5 - 8 lbs underweight.

My least favorite vet is absolutely brilliant. But she doesn't share her thought process. That really bugs me. I appreciate a vet that includes the client in the decision making process - whether it be narrowing down a diagnoses or choosing the best treatment option.

Don't lie. The line about must have an exam to dispense medication... Umm. the law is written that their must be a "client relationship" and simply having the animal's weight on file counts as that. 

DON'T tell me that I should vaccinate because it is cheaper than titers. Don't tell me that I should vaccinate so the exam is free.

Don't tell me that I should have major surgery (spay) done on my dog simply to prevent a minor risk of cancer. Heck - I should have a masectomy so that I won't get breast cancer. And don't get mad and defensive if i challenge or question why I should do a mandatory spay. And if I say "spaying is for people that can't keep their dog on a leash." That's a sign to shut up and let it go.



> Originally Posted by Greg Leavitt
> I would love if when I took a dog to the vet I had somewhere to wait where there were no other dogs there. Maybe some sort of cubicals where you could sit and wait without a ton of other dogs two feet away.


The university vet nearest here has this. They are office cubicals WITH COUCHES! they use for consultations, but they are next to the waiting room and it was super nice to have a "cubby" to wait in.

Knowing your clients - biggest #1 thing. I had Kado at the vet and coming out of the room, there was another dog in the hallway. He was startled and started growling, lunging etc. The vet knows me and the stuff I do with aggressive dogs and didn't bat an eyelash. The tech flipped out and lunged for the leash. My reaction was so calm and slight (a well-fit choke collar) that she didn't realize I had responded. A simple note on the cover of the file would have let her know that yes, the dog has sporatic dog-v-dog aggression issues and yes, the owner is competent.

Windows in door (with a curtain for privacy) would help for those unexpected encounters.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Vet techs........when did this become something you have to go to school for???? Even with the school, I find them incompetent in most matters, except for very few.

I will not go to Alameda, as their policy is to take the dog from you. 

I thought it was amusing when I got Buko his stupid micro chip, that they told me that I wouldn't be able to hold him for them. (not alameda) I told them that maybe that they think they know what they are doing, but the mere fact that I have told you that there is a possibility of you getting bit should be the warning sign, and that I should go in with you. I ended up doing the dang thing myself.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

I would love to see more client education available either on an interactive kiosk, practice website or printed material. Perhaps interactive touch screen monitors in the exam rooms instead of staring at the walls while waiting. One topic that is not stressed enough to clients is animal behavior, socialization and training. There are so many dogs that end up in shelters or being euthanized because of lack of training and socialization and so much that can be done as preventative measures.

Another thing I would like to see is not making clients wait an unreasonable amount of time past their appointment time. I understand that emergencies and unforseen complications happen but some practices really need to adjust their appointment time slots when it happens all the time.

I would also like to see practices put more consideration in hiring and training their staff. It seems that some just hire the first person with a pulse and don't train the staff to be knowledgeable enough to answer questions, do proper documentation and communicate with the clients. I was employed for 17 years at a 24/7 AAHA practice with 33 employees and 7 veterinarians. There was a training protocol for every department, a protocol for every service and proceedure. Thorough documentation, client communication and top quality patient care was not an option. 

Many practices just don't take advantage of today's technology that can automate and streamline everything from appointments to client communication, patient medical records and invoicing.

Terry 
www.showandsport.com


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Vet techs........when did this become something you have to go to school for???? Even with the school, I find them incompetent in most matters, except for very few.
> 
> I will not go to Alameda, as their policy is to take the dog from you.
> 
> I thought it was amusing when I got Buko his stupid micro chip, that they told me that I wouldn't be able to hold him for them. (not alameda) I told them that maybe that they think they know what they are doing, but the mere fact that I have told you that there is a possibility of you getting bit should be the warning sign, and that I should go in with you. I ended up doing the dang thing myself.


When I lived in Aurora in 1995-1996, we went to Alameda East a few times with our Brittany, but that was before they got on Animal Planet, if I recall. I don't think he ever got to see Dr. Fitzgerald, but I think my parents were pleased at the time.

Speaking of microchips, the weekend before last, the shelter was having a microchipping clinic at a dog event, so I took Lily and Fawkes to get theirs done. I told the shelter gals (who I know fairly well) to let me hold or there would be a good chance of Fawkes especially biting them. Lily was not a problem, but the girl who did Fawkes's lost one microchip, so we had to bring him to the shelter to try again later that afternoon. She tried it again and I even saw the hole, but somehow it was lost yet again and didn't scan either. Finally the shelter vet did it and Fawkes, after being poked with a large gauge needle for the third time that day, was not a happy camper. He scratched me good too, but probably would have bit about anyone else who would have tried to restrain him. I didn't let them muzzle him as I didn't want to stress him out further (I dislike cloth muzzles).


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I would prefer that my dog remain on the floor versus having to be lifted onto the examining table for routine exams/shots etc. I do understand that bending over or taking a knee is stress (physical...as in back, knees etc) on the vet/vet tech when you consider how many times they may be required to do this per day BUT providing steps a dog may easily walk up would really be helpful for at least the older dogs, if a vet prefers that they be on the table.


A vet I went to here in Belgium had a motorized table that can be lowered almost all the way down to the ground, the dog steps on, lies down, then the table gets raised up to the height the vet needs.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

My dogs couldnt care less about a kong unless I'm throwing it. At the vet Cujo will barely accept food from people, and Lyka's too busy being antisocial to care about anything else.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> A vet I went to here in Belgium had a motorized table that can be lowered almost all the way down to the ground, the dog steps on, lies down, then the table gets raised up to the height the vet needs.


Yeah my vet has one too here. They are great and especially for elderly dogs and come to that elderly owners with stressed out dogs. An elderly owner is gonna find it damn hard to get a 35 kilo dog up on the table, let alone a vet when the dog is going crazy.

My vet had now changed the policy of appointments. Sure emergencys will always have the priority and rightly so, but there is hardly any waiting now in waitingrooms. You call up for an appointment for a shot for example, arrive and your the only one there. Maybe you meet a dog and owner on the way out, but they are already sitting far away enough from the check-out.

A nice selection of flea and tick collars would be nice and not just the ones from the company that the vet gets the most sales commision on;-) 

The small gesture at the end where the dog gets a treat from the vet or vet tech is also nice.....even though my dogs are too stressed out to eat them:lol: Its still a nice gesture.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lynn and Anne, I totally see your perspectives as owners of canine athletes (which is totally why I asked this question on this board to get that perspective), but you do have to keep in mind that 95%+ of pet owners have no idea about any of these issues and you get a lot of idiotic yahoos who would like to breed their little nasty furballs when they themselves should probably be taken out of the gene pool. So when vets have to deal with that kind of crap all day long, that's probably why they say what they do.  Just keep it in perspective how few really involved owners there really are. 

Now vaccinations and the food issue is a whole nuther kettle of fish and as I've said before, we are already bought and sold on the issue during vet school. I, however, am not and Hill's and Purina (there is a program now at the vet school where vet students can get Purina delivered to their door FREE!) can kiss my arse. :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

QUOTE: 95%+ of pet owners have no idea about any of these issues and you get a lot of idiotic yahoos who would like to breed their little nasty furballs when they themselves should probably be taken out of the gene pool. END

ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

JMO.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: and Lyka's too busy being antisocial to care about anything else.

This is a perfect description.

Quote: (there is a program now at the vet school where vet students can get Purina delivered to their door FREE!)

I keep telling you that I will take the free shit, stubborn ass girl.


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

#1, If my dog is "going to the back" I want to go with them. Anything that doesnt require anesthesia, I want to be there for.

#2, Dont treat me like an idiot, I am concerned about my pets health, maybe more so than you, and I have spent alot of time and money to make sure that they are in the best condition possible

#3, If you even THINK that your vet techs are snots...get rid of them. The last thing I want to hear is a lecture about what I feed my dogs and how Science Diet would be so much better for their health. 

#4, There is no reason if I bring in 3 dogs at one time for bordatella, and you pat them on the rump and say they are in great health (after looking at them for about 10 seconds each) that I should be charged $120 in "office visits" ($40 each)

oh I could go on and on......


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Went to the emergency vet with a dog bleeding out with a throat wound, and had them stare at me when I was standing there waiting for them to help my dog. I told them I needed to be there until she was at least out, and they just stood there and waited for me to leave. I have never seen that response before, and was not shocked at all when they told me that she had died.

Never, since leaving the confines of the military have I ever thought of the things I thought of that day. I just was glad that I had thought that if I killed them all, then I would not be able to save her on my own.

I guess I try to judge others by how I would go about things. The last thing to be thinking of in that situation is where the owner is. I vividly remember blood pulsing out of my dog, while they just looked at me.

The vet tech came to me afterwards and said that she would not be able to release the body until I paid the bill. Not, I am sorry about your dog, nothing. I had just left the vet telling me my dog was dead, and then this. "hey ****bag, give me a 105 dollars or you will never see your dog again" 

Yeah, thanks.

Luckily, I have satisfied myself with just imagining dead bodies of idiots all over the clinic.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I went to a different vet on a Sunday once because mine was closed. The vet tech told me "theres really nothing we can do here, you will need to see your regular vet on Monday". I asked "Well can I ask him one question?". She responded with "well, if you ask me, I can go ask him, but if he comes into the room to talk to you it'll be $100".

Wtf is wrong with people these days!? Everything revolves around the money. Sure, its business, but where is the line?? An un-named trainer I knew well kept a dog in a kennel run for 6+ weeks with no exercise or playtime or anything because he had a liver problem and had to be sent back to Czech. He didn't want to risk the dog injuring himself in the yard before shipping the dog back in case they refused to exchange the dog :roll:


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Went to the emergency vet with a dog bleeding out with a throat wound, and had them stare at me when I was standing there waiting for them to help my dog. I told them I needed to be there until she was at least out, and they just stood there and waited for me to leave. I have never seen that response before, and was not shocked at all when they told me that she had died.
> 
> Never, since leaving the confines of the military have I ever thought of the things I thought of that day. I just was glad that I had thought that if I killed them all, then I would not be able to save her on my own.
> 
> ...


OMG!!!!! Why the f*** were they just standing there and not doing anything? Or do they not understand the word critical emergency? Sorry you had to go through that Jeff  it sounds like any owners worse nightmare. I would have sued the f***** a$$ off them or.or....... god I would have gone beserk! I just cannot imagine what going through that hell feels like!


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Hil Harrison said:


> OMG!!!!! Why the f*** were they just standing there and not doing anything? Or do they not understand the word critical emergency? Sorry you had to go through that Jeff  it sounds like any owners worse nightmare. I would have sued the f***** a$$ off them or.or....... god I would have gone beserk! I just cannot imagine what going through that hell feels like!


I agree with Hil, no one should have to experience something like that, compassion and a sense of urgency appears to have gone to $hit in alot of places.

I also would like to mention that Hil appears to have mastered the English language (American slang version):lol: :lol: :lol: ....you've definitely been reading to many of Jeff's posts


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I saw this idea yesterday when I was checking out a vet's website - they give their clients a password to enable them to have access to their pets medical records. That is definitely something that I would like, but don't have with my vet - easy to print off a history to keep on file at home and if your traveling and forget to bring documentation of shots etc.,


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I saw this idea yesterday when I was checking out a vet's website - they give their clients a password to enable them to have access to their pets medical records. That is definitely something that I would like, but don't have with my vet - easy to print off a history to keep on file at home and if your traveling and forget to bring documentation of shots etc.,


That would be VERY cool!

Jeff...I dont blame you for being pissed. Picturing dead bodies would NOT have been enough for me.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I saw this idea yesterday when I was checking out a vet's website - they give their clients a password to enable them to have access to their pets medical records. That is definitely something that I would like, but don't have with my vet - easy to print off a history to keep on file at home and if your traveling and forget to bring documentation of shots etc.,


This is an awesome idea. 

One thing I haven't seen yet is PARKING. I love my vet, but hello. He has 4 exam rooms, and 5 parking spaces in his parking lot. Hmm, considering every animal there probably came in it's own individual vehicle, that would tell me between the people waiting to pay a bill and leave, the people currently in the exam rooms, and the people in the waiting area, and the one space he usually parks in, chances are very good the parking lot is going to be full. And there won't be parking on the streets, because that's where all the techs park. 

The vets I have worked with, only 4 in all my years of owning dogs (I find one I like, I stick with them until they retire or I move), have all been great about me handling my own dogs. But they do have advanced degrees  That implies a level of intelligence. It usually only takes one time of "It would probably be better if I handled this one for this procedure" "oh, it will be fine, we are used to handling lots of dogs" 30 seconds later "um, can you come in back please, he won't let us do anything and almost bit a tech". for them to realize they should trust my judgement. I have some dogs I can just drop off and leave for xrays or whatever. I have others I'm there for the entire procedure. And when we are doing an emergency c-section, or the clinic is totally swamped, my vet appreciates having a capable hand to help rub down the pups as they are removed, or help in other ways  I've watched, and helped with in minor ways, multiple c-sections, spays, stitches, lots of xrays, etc. And having a vet who will let me do that is high on my list of wants. Maybe not the first day we meet each other, but within a few visits, once we have a relationship built up.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I also would like to mention that Hil appears to have mastered the English language (American slang version):lol: :lol: :lol: ....you've definitely been reading to many of Jeff's posts


Yeah Jeff is the best teacher on the board:lol: . I guessed if I wrote his language he'd understand me ok this time ;-) 

Seriously though, reading Jeff's post gave me goosbumps......how the F can that be a vets practise that is pure neglect. I would have gone after them big time. Poor dog too.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Well thanks for the empathy. It was a bad time.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

thought I already posted, but don´t see my post:

important to me:

-price
- me @ procedures and helping (none of my dogs can be very good handled by others)
- don´t treat me like a dumbass, I´m very often pretty acurate at what´s probably wrong with the dog. 
-tell me how you will treat him and how it works


I have a vet like that, thank god. Most of the time I´m the tech helping, x rays usually,1 time a rootcanal treatment (broken k9).


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Yikes Jeff, that is bad news. Sorry to hear that...I promise I won't let a dog bleed to death in the waiting room for craziness like that...


Mike, I had heard some suggestions on another board to have a "nurse triage" so you could ask questions of a knowledgeable vet tech after hours if you were a regular client without having to pay a full fee for the emergency vet. Our vet school's ER has one of these, but I wasn't super duper thrilled when I had to use it a time or two. Of course, finding good vet techs are hard to find. They are typically not well paid (I would pay top dollar to an excellent vet tech), and therein lies part of the problem. :roll:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Maren I do not see you like that at all.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I use 2 vets. One is a mobile vet that charges 1 fee (50 bucks) for seeing all my dogs and the normal charges for the heartworm test and rabies shots, so instead of lugging all my dogs for their annual wellness check and heartworm etc it gets done at home in one shot, really nice!

Anything like an injury or something like that i go to my regular vet who knows his stuff and explains things in a no nonsense manner.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Maren I do not see you like that at all.


Awww, thanks Jeff. *warm fuzzies*

Now quick, call me a ****ing newb or something before I faint with all the good feelings. 

Al, great idea. I had numerous people on another board request house calls, especially for euthanasia. I have yet to personally bring in one of my own dogs in to get put to sleep (although I've seen it numerous times with other people's pets), but I'd just be a wreck and I don't want to subject the entire waiting room to my grief.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lacey Vessell said:


> I saw this idea yesterday when I was checking out a vet's website - they give their clients a password to enable them to have access to their pets medical records. That is definitely something that I would like, but don't have with my vet - easy to print off a history to keep on file at home and if your traveling and forget to bring documentation of shots etc.,


This is an up-and-coming thing....... my dentist and my ophthalmologist both do this now.

The records posted by physician and staff are not alterable, of course, but there are even functions that allow the patient to make notes that stay with the file.

I think it's great.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I had numerous people on another board request house calls, especially for euthanasia. ....


I forgot about that. That's a biggie.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

I wish that my vet is big on raw feeding.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lindsay Janes said:


> I wish that my vet is big on raw feeding.


Or even able to discuss it without having a heart attack ......


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Al, great idea. I had numerous people on another board request house calls, especially for euthanasia. I have yet to personally bring in one of my own dogs in to get put to sleep (although I've seen it numerous times with other people's pets), but I'd just be a wreck and I don't want to subject the entire waiting room to my grief.


 
That would be a really nice thing to do. I have never had to PTS any of my own dogs....I couldnt imagine the drive home......


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## Elly Elsenaar (Mar 27, 2006)

what I see here a lot of times, young vet practice if they don't exactly know whats wrong with the dog, keep trying whats wrong with the dog, instead of sending them to a specialist. Sometimes there is been weeks before they finally send them to a specialist. 

Then in the end, you have to go to the specialist, the X-rays or something have to do over again, so your dog is suffering for weeks, you lost a lot of money and you can start over again. I cannot speak for the whole Netherlands but the area I live.

Thats what I like from my vet, if she have any doubt or something she send you right away to the person who is specilized.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

a separate exit/entrance other than the waiting room to facilitate getting emergencies in, to allow ppl that are bringing animals for euthanasia to come in/leave w/o having to deal with the other clients in the waiting room.

we had this in the clinic i worked at, it was a blessing in many ways.


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## Michelle Kutelis (Sep 28, 2006)

I've worked the last 12 years as a Vet tech- and I'd like to think I'm one of the competent ones.

I will agree, most vet techs are beyond useless. I think, in fact, that many are downright dangerous! If an animal is having difficulty breathing, is pale, and you need a chest x-ray, how many "extra" shots do you think you get? I'm talking extra shots because the techs cannot properly measure the dog and set the machine. So, 10 x-rays later, the dog is falling over, blue, and the techs are scratching their butts trying to figure out how to get the machine to work. Then..."oops, we forgot load film in the cassette." But I blame this on the fact that many hopsital owners just want to hire anyone off the street at CHEAP pay. Who cares if they have skills or not...because they don't want to pay the ones that have a clue.

I can also say, I will NEVER hand my dog over to techs to be taken into "the back." NO WAY. I have seen first hand the idiot things the techs do, and even some vets. Luckily, I don't have to, I'm very particular about what vets I take my dogs to.

I am tired, in general, of vets that are so clueless I would not let them see my dogs. I worked in an Emergency Clinic that uses a different vet every night, and it is not fun to have to ask "who is on tonight?" before going in. Honestly, I'm talking about vets who have to look up EVERYTHING in the "5 minute vet consult" book to have an idea. Thats right up there for me with "take an x-ray of the other elbow, I have no idea what I'm looking at." or, "It's a German Shepherd, it must be limping because of hip dysplasia."

I lucked out when Torro broke a leg (after hours) and the vet who was on duty was an orthopedic specialist. He splinted it well, then told me to take my dog to a better hospital.

I have bypassed the local clinic where I worked to drive an extra 70 miles to the next E-clinic. Thats pretty sad. Of course, this is only when it's not something VERY urgent. Terry lives relatively near me, and can confirm the bad rep this particular E-clinic has. Unfortunately, there is not another one in the area.

And Jeff, I'm sorry. Working at the E-Clinic, I can tell you MANY animals die in the waiting room or after being taken back, while the techs and drs wait for paperwork. It's just wrong, I agree, and like you I would have been visualising the bodies.

We had (past tense I don't work there anymore- I quit because of crap like this) a form to sign that to do basic life-saving measures they signed an estimate for $500. Without that signature, and the forms filled out, we could not stabilize the animal. We were also told, due to insurance reasons, that we could not START on a dog that was not approved because then we would have to finish. If you did not have the money to pay right then, when dropped off, nothing could be done to your dog.

All that said, I worked at an EXCELLENT facility in Chelmsford, MA. Countryside Vet- just incredible layout, management, and care. The owner CARED about the clinic and his patients. He put big money back into the facility, ongoing education for vets down to the kennel help, and making his clinic the best it could be. If one of his vets wanted a piece of equipment, he bought it for the clinic and paid to have everyone trained on it's use. That clinic was a pleasure to work for, and I would have trusted ANY vet there with any of my animals. Probably even without my being there. Wish they could all be like that.


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## Michelle Kutelis (Sep 28, 2006)

OK since my last post seemed like one big rant to me- allow me to post something positive-

http://www.countrysideveterinaryhospital.com/2tour.html

Look around the whole site, and you will get an idea what I would expect from a vet clinic. This is, in my opinion, what a vet hospital should be like. I'm afraid I'm quite spoiled after working here. 

I'm now in California, way too far to commute...


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

WOW! That is impressive!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Continueing education is so important for all staff. At the vet clinic I worked at, even the kennel staff could go to the seminars and listened in on a continuing education topic every other week during the staff meeting. This is a nice clinic with competent techs (unless we're talking about x-rays  ) Here is a link with a bit about them: http://www.oakwoodhillsanimalhospital.com/site/view/75241_OurHospital.pml

My sister takes her cat to a vet clinic that ONLY takes cats. Weird. Anyway, the standard exam is an hour - and the vet spends the whole hour with the client. Wow! I'm used to 15 minutes and one vet has 2 - 3 clients at the same time and is popping in and out of the exam rooms. (That really bugs me, BTW)

This hour-long exam was $46. I pay $30 for the 15 minute, "I'll be back in a moment" exam.

It's in Colorado Springs, FYI. I don't remember what the name was. something something Feline Center.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Michelle Kutelis said:


> All that said, I worked at an EXCELLENT facility in Chelmsford, MA. Countryside Vet-.


My nephew-dogs (my sisters' dogs) go there. I hear all the time about how happy my relatives are with that facility.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Colorado is infested with "cat only" clinics. There is one right down the street from where I live. I like to wait until someone goes in there and let Jinx run inside. PRICELESS.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

oh jeff.....could you video that and then post it? it WOULD be priceless


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I will try and get my buddys camera, and see if he will film it for me. I have to do some recon and figure out a busy day.......MU HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH MUUUUU HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH:lol:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Michelle and Anne, those both look like really neat facilities. 

On another note, I'm feeling pretty discouraged today. I think my asking you all and another pet forum about this thread topic was extremely invaluable for me because I realize there is a big market out there for holistic veterinary medicine. However, I have yet to find a single other student who even remotely agrees with me. They are too excited to buy the cheap Hill's and get all the free stuff to care. I tried to explain to one of them the problems with polycarbonate water bottles that I did research on during grad school (it's made up of a monomer called bisphenol A that wrecks all kinds of physiological havok) and one was like "So what? I'm going to die anyways." :roll:

Meanwhile, I seem like the crazy hippie because I'm concerned more with the efficacy of the product than how many freebies they can give me. Eh, I don't know...maybe I should try to find a holistic vet somewhere in the state to make some connections with because this is really discouraging. On the other hand, I see that both pet owners and working dog owners are very concerned with the holistic side of vet medicine. So maybe instead of being discouraged, I'll just laugh all the way to the bank in a few years when I get done. :twisted::lol:


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Here is a facility that one our customers finished late last year in the Scottsdale, AZ area http://www.animalmedicalandsurgical.com/home/default.asp . I heard they had plans for a grand facility but when I saw the portfolio at a conference this year I was amazed.

I agree, there are not enough veterinarians that cater to holistic medicine, Chinese herbal medicine, acupuncture, chiropractic, etc. I does seem that there is an upward trend in pet owners seeking alternative medicine so more and more veterinarians are venturing from "western" medicine to accommodate them. 

Terry


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks Terry. What a gorgeous facility! Tasteful open waiting room and nice spacious facilities in the back. Very cool.

Ya know what's funny, it's not even like I want to be doing voodoo or reiki or crystal magic over the dogs or anything. Just biologically appropriate diets, common sense approach to behavior, minimal vaccinations, and a low stress environment. Why that is so off the wall or far out is beyond me. Ah well...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Thanks Terry. What a gorgeous facility! Tasteful open waiting room and nice spacious facilities in the back. Very cool.
> 
> Ya know what's funny, it's not even like I want to be doing voodoo or reiki or crystal magic over the dogs or anything. Just biologically appropriate diets, common sense approach to behavior, minimal vaccinations, and a low stress environment. Why that is so off the wall or far out is beyond me. Ah well...


Kinda like telling people that totally motivational training really works.  ;-)


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Terry Fisk said:


> http://www.animalmedicalandsurgical.com/home/default.asp . I heard they had plans for a grand facility but when I saw the portfolio at a conference this year I was amazed.


wow that just amazing!!!!!!!! Looks more like some expensive hotel on the outside.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> ...maybe I should try to find a holistic vet somewhere in the state to make some connections with because this is really discouraging.


YES.


And also explain to the morons the difference between homeopathy and holistic medicine.

I could type in a zillion rolly-eyeballs here........... but I can't believe the number of forum people who think they are the same thing! For humans AND dogs.....


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

Connie...I found this on a website. This is the type of thing that could be contributing to "forum people" thinking homeopathy and holistic medicines are the same thing:

Holistic Medicine

Homeopathy is truly a holistic medicine. It affects the entire organism simultaneously producing positive changes psychologically, emotionally and physically. It is holistic medicine in that the whole human being is considered in any treatment plan. Homeopaths need to gain an understanding of the individual on all levels of their being in order to effectively assist them to return to wholeness or health. Holistic medicine also implies an understanding of the whole human being in the context of their environment. Holistic medicine respects the integrity of the human organism and works with the body's natural healing tendencies to correct imbalances rapidly, gently and permanently.

Homeopathy has been practiced worldwide for 200 years and plays a significant role in the healthcare systems of many countries today. Holistic and homeopathic medicine assist the natural tendency of the body to heal itself. With holistic medicine, symptoms of ill health are recognized, as expressed in disharmony within the whole person, resulting in the patient needing treatment, not the disease.

Your thoughts?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

:lol: :lol: 

QUOTE: Homeopathy is truly a holistic medicine. END

The article ("a") is the defining part of the sentence.

Homeopathy is a practice..... its practitioners consider it a holistic practice.


To say it IS holistic medicine is like saying that orthopedic surgery IS Western medicine. Or that herbalism IS Eastern medicine.

Holistic medicine might be defined as treating the entire organism rather than just the disease on its own..... an approach to health care which treats the patient as a whole entity and not just as a venue for a collection of symptoms.

Homeopathy is a system that is based on the Law of Similars. It uses active ingredients in minute (VERY minute) amounts, which would probably be viewed in traditional medicine as ineffectively minute, to "support the symptoms." 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Homeopathy&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...MEDICINE&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

I admit that I still view homeopathy as unproven ..... but I'm open to learning (and I do read up).

Holistic, though: Holistic medicine would be the driving force behind feeding your dog appropriately to maintain health.

Note that the quote includes this: "Holistic and homeopathic medicine." The author does refer to them as two separate things.

The thing is that many people (I believe) consider homeopathy as pretty much unproven hocus-pocus (I'm just saying ..... ), and to call holistic medicine "homeopathy" reverses the definition umbrella.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

We need you to give credit for the text you posted. A link is fine. :>)


Thanks.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Pauline Michels said:


> This is the type of thing that could be contributing to "forum people" thinking homeopathy and holistic medicines are the same thing...



OK. Non-forum folks too. All kinds of folks! :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> OK. Non-forum folks too. All kinds of folks! :lol:


Thanks for the explination!    
As I stand here with my head held low and shuffle my feet around a bit!


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

Link to quote re "Homeopathy and Holistic Medicine" in my previous post:

http://www.homeopathycanada.com/holistic-medicine.htm


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