# how do you evaluate a dog for IPO potential



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i'd like to limit this for the time being to this sport.
i'm using the word IPO because it seems more "current", because my experience is limited to SchH and that was a long time ago 

anyway, when someone brings you a dog and wants you to evaluate it for IPO potential, what do you do and how long do you take to do it ?
by "dog" i mean, mal, gsd, DS, dobe or bulldog type breeds

is your eval going to be breed biased  ?
do you want the owner there with the dog or not ?

i'm looking for something beyond whether the dog will bark, and chase a rag or take a tug or pillow...specifics please

Max and others ... can you explain without using the "drive" words ? //lol//


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I evaluate the people before the dog. Do they listen or do they talk? Do they fit into the group? Do they help set up and tear down the equipment? Lots of dogs can do IPO with training. Is the owner willing to do the work?


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Let start by stating that I am talking about dogs, not breed of dog, nor owner/handlers. Even if I agree with Thomas, let’s agree to keep it dog.
“Potential” is another of the dogworld terms which is supposed to mean everything, while in reality means nothing.
What is potential? 
The ability to title to level 1? Level 2? Level 3?
In your own or known to the dog clubs?
Competing all the way to national level? 
Winning or with the potential to do so?
I asked you the questions above because every question requires a different “potential” further complicated if your goals are to compete to win.
Any dog sport requires dog with specific and different characteristics of the next to win, and the trainers that do win tend to select dogs with specific traits within those characteristics, to match their training style and personal preferences. They don’t just pick a god dog and train him. 
Easy right? Not a bit.
What I did, when I had a club, that was not a business, I would check if the dog could enter the field and be relaxed not stressed, if the dog would bite, if the dog could be motivated with play and if the dog had enough stamina.

Happy training


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## Peter Cho (Apr 21, 2010)

Potential means many thing for different people. Lets make it simple and say club level dog. Enough to get Sch 1. 

Yes I am breed bias. That is because I am looking at the pedigree of the dog. Pure and simple. It's logic. Parents and grand parents did it. Chances are the progenies can do it with good training.


Second, I want to see how much prey it has. I want to ensure we have a good reward system we can develop to release the conflict from the work.

Most importantly, the owner. Many people think dog dog dog dog. This is irrelevant. Who cares how good the dog is. IPO tests the character of the handler. That is why it is brutally hard to do well. It teaches you humility, perseverance, and discipline. This is why most cannot do it. Humans, that is.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Lol, IPO is a sport for people not dogs.......


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

ehh, just tell him to meet you on the tracking field at 6 AM and see if he will show up.


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Matt Vandart said:


> Lol, IPO is a sport for people not dogs.......


If my mind serves me right, I don't recall ever seeing one person competing without a dog! 

Can I send you a dog, any dog to compete at the next national event?

Happy training


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Khoi Pham said:


> ehh, just tell him to meet you on the tracking field at 6 AM and see if he will show up.


 You are right! that would be evaluating the handler not the dog 

Happy training


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Like any dog training, you have to train the handler first before he knows how to train his dog, if the handler don't want to learn or have the skill to train, even good dog will not get him a title.


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Khoi Pham said:


> Like any dog training, you have to train the handler first before he knows how to train his dog, if the handler don't want to learn or have the skill to train, even good dog will not get him a title.


Khoi, I don't disagree with you. The original question was "how do you evaluate a *dog *for IPO potential"

Happy training


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Max Orsi said:


> Khoi, I don't disagree with you. The original question was "how do you evaluate a *dog *for IPO potential"
> 
> Happy training


Yeah I know, I'm just messing around waiting for my computer to make some blu-ray disc for my clients.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Max Orsi said:


> If my mind serves me right, I don't recall ever seeing one person competing without a dog!
> 
> Can I send you a dog, any dog to compete at the next national event?
> 
> Happy training


Yup, if you like never pass up a free dog ........:-\"


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Matt Vandart said:


> Yup, if you like never pass up a free dog ........:-\"


 Is not a free dog, is a dog to compete at a national event.

still good?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

maybe my Q's were poorly worded 
1. if "potential" causes problems, delete the word; it is not so important
2. if you want to write how you evaluate for another job besides IPO, feel free to comment on the sport or job too.
3. of COURSE i evaluate people, but if you want to include that side, start another thread please. if you think you need to evaluate the owner/handler and dog together, fine; explain why

i evaluate dogs a lot and i have my own system i use. of course i evaluate the owners too. but i wanted dog specifics, not your overall goals, or how you select people for your club, etc. and i have reasons why i asked these specific questions. after you reply to those, great, then add whatever else you want to contribute. if you think the questions are stupid, i'm fine with that too cause i do believe one can ask stupid questions 

i've only worked with two dogs that came to me with problems that had previous IPO training and in both cases i was surprised when i heard how their dogs were evaluated. that's a big reason why i sent the post, but there are others ... i'm here to learn too


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Max wrote he evaluates stamina...good point, and i can see where it is needed, but i'm looking for how he does that since i'm sure he doesn't bring a treadmill to the field


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

an out of shape dog is pretty easy to spot by the way it moves and looks 
but fwiw, sometimes stamina can be as mental as it is physical
- i've been around a lot of dogs in superb physical condition, but would tire, run out of gas and quit after 20-30 min of training that required them to use their brain 
- maybe one reason why a lot of short intense sessions are better than a marathon when starting out ... or maybe not ???


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

rick smith said:


> i'd like to limit this for the time being to this sport.
> i'm using the word IPO because it seems more "current", because my experience is limited to SchH and that was a long time ago
> 
> anyway, when someone brings you a dog and wants you to evaluate it for IPO potential, what do you do and how long do you take to do it ?
> ...


I don't know whether I can do this competently - forgive me!

I started off with Swiss Schutzhund trials with one dog. My trainer checked him out and said he was IPO material, alone from his temperament and bitework.

I changed clubs and a trainer told me we could work with him - he had a lot of temperament. I had to heel with the dog in snow but we survived.

He was IPO material he reached IPO3.

Now comes the crunch. IPO has 3 disciplines, Tracking, Obedience and Protection.

What I have noticed on this forum is the lack of interest in tracking.

Tracking has many facets. The climate, the vegetation, etc. In this forum, this is never but never discussed.

What the dog brings in obedience and protection is discussed and put on videos. 

But experience shows that tracking, especially at World events, also plays a major role.

Obedience and protection can be carried out in the home country, but tracking......


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I think tracking is the true test of a dogs working work ethic myself.

Max: whatever dude, you gonna lend me one? lol


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Is this IPO potential evaluation about a dog for myself (what would I specifically look for for me) or about someone else's dog (would this be a good dog for them)?

What level competition? What level handler experience? 

If someone just wants a dog to have some fun and compete in club trials, than different criteria than someone hoping to compete at the higher levels.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Im curious myself when it comes to high level dogs. World competitors buy them as green dogs from europe all the time. What are they looking for? 
I know at the glub all thats required is the dog have some prey drive but most of the members are not competing on the world stage.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Haz Othman said:


> Im curious myself when it comes to high level dogs. World competitors buy them as green dogs from europe all the time. What are they looking for?
> I know at the glub all thats required is *the dog have some prey drive* but most of the members are not competing on the world stage.


This I find very interesting.


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

rick smith said:


> Max wrote he evaluates stamina...good point, and i can see where it is needed, but i'm looking for how he does that since i'm sure he doesn't bring a treadmill to the field


Just Playing Rick, if the dog looks like is dead after playing less than a couple of minutes it is not worth.

Keep in mind, that as I said above, I am not a professional trainer that you have to pay to work the dog, otherwise all dog would have potential. (+$$$)

I have always been a Club member, were the priority was competing, a dog with "little" potential would have needed extra work which should have been payed by all club members.

By the way, I think I have seen the word "Drive" in o couple of posts. 

Happy training


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I don't know whether I can do this competently - forgive me!
> 
> I started off with Swiss Schutzhund trials with one dog. My trainer checked him out and said he was IPO material, alone from his temperament and bitework.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right Gillian.

Tracking (ipo) is more about training than "potential" therefore not "tested" when evaluating the dog.

Happy training


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