# Food Tracking



## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Just started tracking again yesterday after taking most of the winter off. Filmed today, just cause. I'm pretty sure I know what to do going forward for the next week training but I'm curious as to what everyone's opinions are.

It's more or less where we left off in the fall. Lots of food down through the turns. I liked how he started and finished, but around the seven minute mark he started messing around and doing his own thing (tends to happen when I use too much food). ...And of course there's that one article too. LOL

At the 10 minute mark I finally addressed his putzing.


http://youtu.be/x_AZHowskrA



Any compliments go right to the dog, he's taught me far more than I ever taught him about this stuff.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks for sharing i love tracking vids!!

Can you tell me what your articles were? what bait you were using and how often eg. how many steps apart etc? And what was the dog doing before you corrected him for not keeping his mind on the job and indicating? Before that it looked like his articles are pretty nice.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

well by the title, I "think" he may have been just nosing around looking for food, and not tracking so much..

but I dont know much about tracking, and to be honest, most of the videos I see of dogs in earlier training, especially puppies, look to me like they are just looking for food, at least, most of them anyhow..

looks like it worked to me...but like I said, I dont know all that much about tracking..

some advice....
speak nicely to your dog in the videos, or some people may think you abuse him


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## kenneth roth (Jul 29, 2010)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Just started tracking again yesterday after taking most of the winter off. Filmed today, just cause. I'm pretty sure I know what to do going forward for the next week training but I'm curious as to what everyone's opinions are.
> 
> It's more or less where we left off in the fall. Lots of food down through the turns. I liked how he started and finished, but around the seven minute mark he started messing around and doing his own thing (tends to happen when I use too much food). ...And of course there's that one article too. LOL
> 
> ...


 what kind of camera ur using? it looks like you haven't used a camera befor,, the dog looks good but like joby said looked like he was searching for food


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> some advice....
> speak nicely to your dog in the videos, or some people may think you abuse him


Maybe I do. :razz: haha, I didn't watch it (other than pin pointing which parts I didn't like - real food searching and when I finally addressed it) and forgot the disclaimer that yea, we tend to bicker like an old married couple. is that too much?? :-o8-[ Maybe I should just learn to mute it before throwing it online. I didn't really film with the intention of sharing.



Anyways, yea I know he was 'just' looking for food. That's why I titled it all the way I did. I personally know what "my" game plan is for fixing this, was curious on others' thoughts. I'll be the first to admit I know jack about tracking and it's far removed from my list of favorite activities. For instance, why it took me nearly three minutes to address his lack of focus and now looking at the timestamps I'm wondering shouldn't I have corrected him sooner.

Camera is a $200 Sony I picked up from Target, nothing fancy but does the job I needed it for (lets me be my own spotter when I'm away from my training group).


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

brad robert said:


> Thanks for sharing i love tracking vids!!
> 
> Can you tell me what your articles were? what bait you were using and how often eg. how many steps apart etc? And what was the dog doing before you corrected him for not keeping his mind on the job and indicating? Before that it looked like his articles are pretty nice.


Articles were all "ipo regulation" (or used to be?) from a mix of sources, some are gappay and others I picked up from various vendors online and in trials. Carpet, leather, fabric...all my wood ones disappeared last year and haven't been replaced yet.

Today I used Zukes treats and way too many, I think the first three turns were baited every step. Then I baited every corner randomly after that...I think only two of the corners didn't have bait all the way through. Way too much today, but me being paranoid and not giving my dog enough credit turned him into a food hound instead of a tracker today. Straight ways had food every 3-10 steps, so heavily through them too.

Are you talking about that whole straight leg where he was just wandering back and forth looking for food? Or why I downed him and then gave him the collar corrections? The down was a pause and verbal to get back on track to the job, he sometimes looks to articles and then goes backwards on the track (looking for missed food). I down him, give him a chance to work the track like he should, if not collar correction. I think that was the article I didn't give a reward at too, because he 'used' it.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie, I am in the same boat as far as not knowing that much about it.

I am curious though, how many tracks has the dog done do you think?

and have you ever tried tracking for just the articles? or even for a ball or something? without any food?


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Jackie thanks for sharing the vid it was nice watching Abner work.....but BOY you sure talk alot while he is tracking :razz:

I have some questions if you don't mind since I recently started tracking with my boy.

How do you know where your corners are?
How did you first teach him corners?
How much food/paces are you using on the track?


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Articles were all "ipo regulation" (or used to be?) from a mix of sources, some are gappay and others I picked up from various vendors online and in trials. Carpet, leather, fabric...all my wood ones disappeared last year and haven't been replaced yet.
> 
> Today I used Zukes treats and way too many, I think the first three turns were baited every step. Then I baited every corner randomly after that...I think only two of the corners didn't have bait all the way through. Way too much today, but me being paranoid and not giving my dog enough credit turned him into a food hound instead of a tracker today. Straight ways had food every 3-10 steps, so heavily through them too.
> 
> Are you talking about that whole straight leg where he was just wandering back and forth looking for food? Or why I downed him and then gave him the collar corrections? The down was a pause and verbal to get back on track to the job, he sometimes looks to articles and then goes backwards on the track (looking for missed food). I down him, give him a chance to work the track like he should, if not collar correction. I think that was the article I didn't give a reward at too, because he 'used' it.


Thanks Jackie yep i was referring to the down and the correction but you explained it already thanks.I was also curious about your corners as i use markers and i couldnt see any on the ground in that clip?


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby, he has an IPO1 (94 in tracking, due to two circles, one a the second corner and one on the final leg for no obvious reason) but honestly not tracked that much...far below the average IPOI dog for sure. We've done tracks with no food, just articles, and he 'always' gets ball throws when we're done. We've done very long tracks before (must have been a half mile straight line, no joke) and on the way back to the car he followed the whole thing step for step back. I use the ball to make him break mentally and reward at the end. Never stopped in the middle of the track for the ball (maybe once?) but I could, yea.

I'd like to do regionals this year so we're gonna start tracking and hopefully between now and then I'll figure out what I'm doing so I don't hold him back again. [-o<



Doug, I'll just blame it on trying to keep my focus. I do talk to myself - I mean my dogs - quite a bit. As far as the corners, I don't know where they are on this track. I just let him go work it, don't mind if he gets lost as long as he's actually trying (he wasn't). I initially used articles and bait to teach corners and now I'm doing...this thing. Short track, lots of turns, articles and food placed to keep him focused, and then turns baited in random patterns. Sometimes through the whole turn, sometimes before and after, sometimes half way, ect.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Jackie, I am in the same boat as far as not knowing that much about it.
> 
> I am curious though, how many tracks has the dog done do you think?
> 
> and have you ever tried tracking for just the articles? or even for a ball or something? without any food?


I have used a ball at the end before and for schH i wont again i found for MY dog it caused to many bad habits the dog rushing to get to the ball the dog then blowing corners and articles and lifting his head and air scenting especially when they know the ball is at the end after a few tracks and the dog is a crack head for a ball.I also want my dog to think the track its self is the real joy and not the end as it just compounds issues for MY dog.And since i have taken this on and hidden the food better in the ground so the dog really has to search its been much better.Others might have found the exact opposite.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Joby, he has an IPO1 (94 in tracking, due to two circles, one a the second corner and one on the final leg for no obvious reason) but honestly not tracked that much...far below the average IPOI dog for sure. We've done tracks with no food, just articles, and he 'always' gets ball throws when we're done. We've done very long tracks before (must have been a half mile straight line, no joke) and on the way back to the car he followed the whole thing step for step back. I use the ball to make him break mentally and reward at the end. Never stopped in the middle of the track for the ball (maybe once?) but I could, yea.
> 
> I'd like to do regionals this year so we're gonna start tracking and hopefully between now and then I'll figure out what I'm doing so I don't hold him back again. [-o<
> 
> ...


I think your last paragraph is on the money.I am prepering my dog for schH1 tracking now and i dont think they need long tracks what they need is shorter to middle length tracks that they get RIGHT and are very accurate on and indicate properly and do corners well and when the dog is doing this correctly and focussed he will do it on a larger track as well and i dont see the point in dragging him out all the time and besides a 1 is only 300 paces and a 2 is 400paces they are not big tracks.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Brad here is a big mistake I made today...took him out to a new field recently baled (hay). We began tracking last month so I am trying to make each tracking session a win for him right now.

I laid a 120 pace straight track food every step, then random, then back and forth with 1 left turn then going out 60 paces. 

When I laid the track I opened the can of sardines by mistake. First time using sardines usually a handfull of treats he likes or new kibble. Well the corner work we need more work...but he gets about 10 paces away, wind was blowing into him and that was that...head came off track, nose to air and he smelled the sardines...GRRRRRR all that work and he did not finish the track correctly...I made him work til we got there but it was not a successful ending.. then he got the sardines.

What did I learn today....we need to keep reducing food, we need corner work and last but not least never put down an open can of sardines on the track, especially with a head wind LOL!


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> Brad here is a big mistake I made today...took him out to a new field recently baled (hay). We began tracking last month so I am trying to make each tracking session a win for him right now.
> 
> I laid a 120 pace straight track food every step, then random, then back and forth with 1 left turn then going out 60 paces.
> 
> ...


Its frustrating Doug for sure especially when they are doing so well but its really cool when we learn something and get to apply it next time and see a change for the better and i always find im the one f ing up and then i learn something about the dog or the track and we progress

Oh yeah dont be in a rush to reduce the food just keep it intermitant i just think it helps in building that foundation of left to right searching especially only after a month


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Joby, he has an IPO1 (94 in tracking, due to two circles, one a the second corner and one on the final leg for no obvious reason) but honestly not tracked that much...far below the average IPOI dog for sure. We've done tracks with no food, just articles, and he 'always' gets ball throws when we're done. We've done very long tracks before (must have been a half mile straight line, no joke) and on the way back to the car he followed the whole thing step for step back. I use the ball to make him break mentally and reward at the end. Never stopped in the middle of the track for the ball (maybe once?) but I could, yea.
> 
> I'd like to do regionals this year so we're gonna start tracking and hopefully between now and then I'll figure out what I'm doing so I don't hold him back again. [-o<
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply Jackie.. I was just curious about the dogs history. (congratulations on the title, and good luck with your goals).

I am still slightly interested in Schutzhund style tracking, and am always trying to analyze it when I can.

I will leave the advice up to the more knowledgable people


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

brad robert said:


> I have used a ball at the end before and for schH i wont again i found for MY dog it caused to many bad habits the dog rushing to get to the ball the dog then blowing corners and articles and lifting his head and air scenting especially when they know the ball is at the end after a few tracks and the dog is a crack head for a ball.I also want my dog to think the track its self is the real joy and not the end as it just compounds issues for MY dog.And since i have taken this on and hidden the food better in the ground so the dog really has to search its been much better.Others might have found the exact opposite.


Thanks for the input Brad, I imagine that could be an issue.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Doug Zaga said:


> Brad here is a big mistake I made today...took him out to a new field recently baled (hay). We began tracking last month so I am trying to make each tracking session a win for him right now.
> 
> I laid a 120 pace straight track food every step, then random, then back and forth with 1 left turn then going out 60 paces.
> 
> ...


sounds like a lot of work Doug  how are you placing the food? my back started killing me when I was tracking more with food. but hey I'm fat..LOL I use the ole' PVC pipe trick now, no more bending over for me....


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> sounds like a lot of work Doug  how are you placing the food? my back started killing me when I was tracking more with food. but hey I'm fat..LOL I use the ole' PVC pipe trick now, no more bending over for me....


You lame ass MF'er...LOL! I do the two step, reach down, lift up front of foot, insert then do it again if food in every step...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Doug Zaga said:


> You lame ass MF'er...LOL! I do the two step, reach down, lift up front of foot, insert then do it again if food in every step...


sounds like good exercise, (if the back and hip is good that is)...I just dont enjoy bending over as much as you I guess  what sport are you doing again ???


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> sounds like a lot of work Doug  how are you placing the food? my back started killing me when I was tracking more with food. but hey I'm fat..LOL I use the ole' PVC pipe trick now, no more bending over for me....


Thats another interesting point! im interested in how people find the pvc pipe because i found it was to easy for the dog and they can visualize the food sitting on the grass(this might be ok for strting dogs or pups??)and not use there nose as much. James D gave me some advice a while back to try hiding the food a little in the steps and make the food really small pieces its easier to hide and it has made a huge differance to my dog she is slower because she is really searching for the food and following the track even if there is no food there she stills go to the step because she thinks it might be just under the surface it really builds the searching of the track.

Oh yeah and it kills your back  but thats why i keep it pretty short to med length but accurate.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> sounds like good exercise, (if the back and hip is good that is)...I just dont enjoy bending over as much as you I guess  what sport are you doing again ???



It surely isn't the bent over for Bubba's cellmate sport...that is for our board certified metrosexual who picks up drunk Irishmen and gets them to play with his dogs!!!!


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> It surely isn't the bent over for Bubba's cellmate sport...that is for our board certified metrosexual who picks up drunk Irishmen and gets them to play with his dogs!!!!


:razz: LMAO thats gold!!!


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

brad robert said:


> Thats another interesting point! im interested in how people find the pvc pipe because i found it was to easy for the dog and they can visualize the food sitting on the grass(this might be ok for strting dogs or pups??)and not use there nose as much. James D gave me some advice a while back to try hiding the food a little in the steps and make the food really small pieces its easier to hide and it has made a huge differance to my dog she is slower because she is really searching for the food and following the track even if there is no food there she stills go to the step because she thinks it might be just under the surface it really builds the searching of the track.


For me I have been using Natural Balance Roll which I keep refridgerated so it usually not soft and does not stick to my sole when placing it under front of foot and then stepping off...actually by stepping off it pushes it into cover more than just placing it there plus it is harder to see than the contrast of a hotdog and cover...just my opinion not sure if it is the same for the dog. I noticed with the hot dogs they sometimes stick to my sole and get carried to next pace...that sucks!!

I was once taught to lift the heel then reach back and place it in each heel step...talk about back pain LOL!


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Doug Zaga said:


> For me I have been using Natural Balance Roll which I keep refridgerated so it usually not soft and does not stick to my sole when placing it under front of foot and then stepping off...actually by stepping off it pushes it into cover more than just placing it there plus it is harder to see than the contrast of a hotdog and cover...just my opinion not sure if it is the same for the dog. I noticed with the hot dogs they sometimes stick to my sole and get carried to next pace...that sucks!!
> 
> I was once taught to lift the heel then reach back and place it in each heel step...talk about back pain LOL!


Thats a good one!! and i gave up on hotdogs too i tried stepping on them and they just stuck to my shoe as well:razz:.i just cook up sausage which thinking about it is the same colour as the dog rolls but probably a little firmer and not squishy which for me helps to allow me to push into the grass or hide it etc


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

My back hurts enough, I just drop it as I'm walking and try to make the food bounce out of the steps as little as possible. There's an art to this technique that I haven't quite mastered, so some days I'm still breaking back a lot and putting the food back where it should be...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> My back hurts enough, I just drop it as I'm walking and try to make the food bounce out of the steps as little as possible. There's an art to this technique that I haven't quite mastered, so some days I'm still breaking back a lot and putting the food back where it should be...


Jackie, I am not kidding. Just go get a piece of pvc pipe, mine is 1 inch inner diameter.. find out what length is the most comfortable for you to hold down to ground level, and drop the food in with the other hand, and cut it there with a hacksaw or something. Helped me like tracking a little bit more


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ditto on the pvc. I used it with the first dog I trained for FST in the early 90s. Kinda like good insurance; Never go tracking without it! 
For all nubees in FST. *TAKE YOUR TIME, DON'T RUSH THE DOG! * If you making mistakes your probably advancing to fast for the dog. 
Of course that goes for any training.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

But I'm on the verge of breakthrough technique here! I might...maybe just pull a piece off one of my old jumps. 

Bob, are you saying that I rushed my dog? I thought I did pretty good about that today. Going out with a tracking fanatic tomorrow, if I remember I'll ask her to tape it. She's always great about telling me to quit rushing through my tracks.:lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jackie Lockard said:


> But I'm on the verge of breakthrough technique here! I might...maybe just pull a piece off one of my old jumps.
> 
> Bob, are you saying that I rushed my dog? I thought I did pretty good about that today. Going out with a tracking fanatic tomorrow, if I remember I'll ask her to tape it. She's always great about telling me to quit rushing through my tracks.:lol:



More of a general statement. 
My only concern is this being the first track since the winter slow down I would have shortened it a bit. Just a warm up. 
Being a Lab, is this for AKC tracking? They are easier on their expectations of the dog for the TD but just as long as a Sch III.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Good...was kinda worried cause I thought I did great about rushing today. Great for me, anyways...

I did some math. We've been tracking twice since our November trial, not including yesterday. "Most of the winter off" might have been an understatement. We did a 'warm up' track yesterday (long u, fully baited turns, some sections of food, some without, a few articles).

We do IPO. Hoping to at least do regionals in the fall, not sure at the moment if that will be his II or III. Would like to retire him this year, but crap keeps cropping up and preventing us from training. We'll see.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Bob i would like to hear your opinion on weather or not dropping the food with pvc makes it to easy for the dog to visualize the food in front of it and lead to bad habits etc looking ahead for food instead of using nose etc?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

brad robert said:


> Bob i would like to hear your opinion on weather or not dropping the food with pvc makes it to easy for the dog to visualize the food in front of it and lead to bad habits etc looking ahead for food instead of using nose etc?


Brad..
Just curious as why you would think it would be more visible to the dog?

I can see that PVC adds something to the scent picture, but cannot see how it would add visibility. 

The food ends up exactly where you want to to put it. you want it in the toe, it goes in the toe, you want it in the heel it goes in the heel...you want it deep in the grass it goes deep in the grass. Unless you are physically smashing your food into the ground, I cant see a difference, if you are just placing in the steps with your hand it is the same, and is certainly much more accurate than dropping it out of your hand from knee height...

What are you thinking is going on, with using pvc, that might make it more visual?


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Joby,Its just that when i used the pvc pipe the food always seemed to sit on top of the footstep and was very obvious to see didnt matter if at was at your toes or heel even if you push the pipe down harder the surface goes inside the pipe leaving the food nicely on top of it and definately had no luck with the pipe on football field or very short grass where i like to put the food under the grass or down in between blades of grass or hide it just out of obvious site so the dog is really using its nose and for me it takes the visual aspect out of it completely and is all about using the nose.Its just my experience and it seems many others have opposite results but i gave up on it i just couldnt hide the food the way that worked for me.:lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

brad robert said:


> Joby,Its just that when i used the pvc pipe the food always seemed to sit on top of the footstep and was very obvious to see didnt matter if at was at your toes or heel even if you push the pipe down harder the surface goes inside the pipe leaving the food nicely on top of it and definately had no luck with the pipe on football field or very short grass where i like to put the food under the grass or down in between blades of grass or hide it just out of obvious site so the dog is really using its nose and for me it takes the visual aspect out of it completely and is all about using the nose.Its just my experience and it seems many others have opposite results but i gave up on it i just couldnt hide the food the way that worked for me.:lol:


Yeah I guess if it was real short grass, I could see that..but vertainly no different than dropping it out of your hand...


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

http://youtu.be/nT8vugJ6VGo

Today's track.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> http://youtu.be/nT8vugJ6VGo
> 
> Today's track.


again no expert, but at least that looked like tracking to me 

what happened in the beginning, forget the rewards?

shortly after that, were those corrections to slow the dog down, or did you step on the leash a few times or something?


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> again no expert, but at least that looked like tracking to me
> 
> what happened in the beginning, forget the rewards?
> 
> shortly after that, were those corrections to slow the dog down, or did you step on the leash a few times or something?


Happens about every fifth track or so. Someday....just thankful the car was right there this time. Yes corrections. Toward the end I also held it tight to get him to focus a bit before he got too hectic. Either way improvement from yesterday. Most of these issues today should go away once we get in the grove again.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Happens about every fifth track or so. Someday....just thankful the car was right there this time. Yes corrections. Toward the end I also held it tight to get him to focus a bit before he got too hectic. Either way improvement from yesterday. Most of these issues today should go away once we get in the grove again.


Ill admit I did not scrutinize every second of it..but not much food at all on the track if any, correct? paid at articles?


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Ill admit I did not scrutinize every second of it..but not much food at all on the track if any, correct? paid at articles?


There is a little. Hectic, but working.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

thanks for sharing..


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

brad robert said:


> Bob i would like to hear your opinion on weather or not dropping the food with pvc makes it to easy for the dog to visualize the food in front of it and lead to bad habits etc looking ahead for food instead of using nose etc?



I drop the food right where I'm going to step next. That way it's mashed into the ground (depending on surface) and the dog has to work a bit to get it. Little to no visualizing. I also believe it can help a dog slow down. At least Thunder is very careful to go over each and ever foot print. That held up for his trial work also. He's easy to walk behind. I wont swear to that because he's always been a very methodical dog for any scent work.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks Bob!! Its interesting that you stand on it and try to push it in a bit i think there is a lot to be said for that and like you said it can slow a fast dog right down,well it did with mine.:razz:


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