# Guard Dogs



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Some of the guard dogs I know are GSD, Doberman Pinscher, Rottweiler, Bullmastiff, Fila Brasileiro, Presa Canario and Cane Corse. I have learned about them a little bit and they are some of the working category breeds. Apart from schutzhund, all of the breed would likely be great Personal Protection Dogs.

I want to know how their guarding abilities differ from each other. That will be in terms of alertness, aloofness, strength, speed, endurance, bite force etc.

I am interested in guard dogs and someday I might have one. For now I want to gain as much information possible on them.

Also, which are the 7 mentioned breeds are most efficient to least efficient at guarding if compared amongst each others.


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Some of the guard dogs I know are GSD, Doberman Pinscher, Rottweiler, Bullmastiff, Fila Brasileiro, Presa Canario and Cane Corse. I have learned about them a little bit and they are some of the working category breeds. Apart from schutzhund, all of the breed would likely be great Personal Protection Dogs.
> 
> I want to know how their guarding abilities differ from each other. That will be in terms of alertness, aloofness, strength, speed, endurance, bite force etc.
> 
> ...


 
Malinois? Dutch Shepherds?


----------



## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Are you wanting a guard dog ( junk yard temperament ) or a personal protection dog ( family temperament ) ?:-k


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> *Malinois? Dutch Shepherds?*


Nah I think they are more suited for Schutzhund purposes. Among Shepherds I think only German Shepherds are best suited for guarding purposes.





kim guidry said:


> *Are you wanting a guard dog ( junk yard temperament ) or a personal protection dog ( family temperament ) ?*:-k



 How does me wanting to have a dog concern my question?

My question is : I want to know how the mentioned 7 well bred breeds guarding abilities differ from each other. That will be in terms of alertness, aloofness, strength, speed, endurance, bite force etc.

Plus, I thought PPD training is a man work, no such dog is a born a personal protection dog  :lol:


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Nah I think they are more suited for Schutzhund purposes. Among Shepherds I think only German Shepherds are best suited for guarding purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which would beg the quesion; just how much experience do you have with the Mal? While they aren't my favorite dog, you have to admire their abilities. I agree, no dog is born a protection dog.


----------



## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

get a security system and buy a gun...

the term "gaurd dog" is old fashion and out of date. now-a-days if someone wants to really get into your house/"gaurded" property they will get through the dogs....

other than that i think that all of the above (if well bred) are well suited to get the job done at an equal state. bite force is one of those things that comes with an individual dog, not breed. BTW, i would pick a mali or dutchie over the dobie or rottie just my $.02


----------



## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

What about this bad boy Annihilator 2000









if its good enough for eddie murphy its good enough for me


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Some of the guard dogs I know are GSD, Doberman Pinscher, Rottweiler, Bullmastiff, Fila Brasileiro, Presa Canario and Cane Corse. I have learned about them a little bit and they are some of the working category breeds. Apart from schutzhund, all of the breed would likely be great Personal Protection Dogs.
> 
> I want to know how their guarding abilities differ from each other. That will be in terms of alertness, aloofness, strength, speed, endurance, bite force etc.
> 
> ...


This man can answer all your questions.

http://chimerakennels.com/


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> This man can answer all your questions.
> 
> http://chimerakennels.com/


Call me paranoid, but I suspect the OP knows the recently departed Mr Robinson quite well VBG


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Nah I think they are more suited for Schutzhund purposes. Among Shepherds I think only German Shepherds are best suited for guarding purposes.
> 
> 
> Since when are Malinois and dutchie the Schutzhund dog of choice?
> ...


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> Chris Ethelstan said:
> 
> 
> > Nah I think they are more suited for Schutzhund purposes. Among Shepherds I think only German Shepherds are best suited for guarding purposes.
> ...


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Barrie I like your style!


----------



## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

How does me wanting to have a dog concern my question?

My question is : I want to know how the mentioned 7 well bred breeds guarding abilities differ from each other. That will be in terms of alertness, aloofness, strength, speed, endurance, bite force etc.

Plus, I thought PPD training is a man work, no such dog is a born a personal protection dog  :lol:[/QUOTE]

Ouch! Dude... I was just asking a question. All i'm saying is that is that there is a difference between a " guard" dog and a PPD. You have a rainbow of dog breeds. They all have good and not so good points about them. I don't believe that a puppy can pop out and say " hey I'm a ppd...look at meeeee" However, if someone wants to groom that dog into a ppd there are certain traits you would look for in a puppy. 

How bout we start over? For your needs and wants, what qualities would you like to see in a dog? IMHO it may help you narrow your search?:-k


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> This man can answer all your questions.
> 
> http://chimerakennels.com/


 
This is funny, 
whatever happened to Mr.Lee? did he get thrown off or leave?


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Ted Efthymiadis said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, this dog lived with me for a year, He was the most teritorial agressive dog I have seen.
> ...


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> This is funny,
> whatever happened to Mr.Lee? did he get thrown off or leave?


Chris,

Given the number and confrontational nature of posts that
Mr Robinson made in his short stint on the WDF. Do you REALLY think he left voluntarily or wouldn't still be posting if he was able? LMAO

On the other hand, the style of the OP sure looks familiar?


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Chris,
> 
> Given the number and confrontational nature of posts that
> Mr Robinson made in his short stint on the WDF. Do you REALLY think he left voluntarily or wouldn't still be posting if he was able? LMAO
> ...


 
I am a bit slow but what a dick


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Some of the guard dogs I know are GSD, Doberman Pinscher, Rottweiler, Bullmastiff, Fila Brasileiro, Presa Canario and Cane Corse. I have learned about them a little bit and they are some of the working category breeds. Apart from schutzhund, all of the breed would likely be great Personal Protection Dogs.
> 
> I want to know how their guarding abilities differ from each other. That will be in terms of alertness, aloofness, strength, speed, endurance, bite force etc.
> 
> ...


 
my suggestion: if you're this new to "guard" dogs and want to learn more: do a lot of reading/research on these breeds (including the Mals/DS, BTW). just reading the breed standards will give you a pretty good idea of the basic differences. then come back on because you'll have more specific questions the forum will be better able to address.


----------



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

IT all comes down to your % of likelihood of success. Which is why I switched from those bandogs (and the breeders that are 99% unsubstantiated hype) to herders.


A bullmastiff near 0% 


A Cane Corso 5%

A 'bandog' 7%

A Presa 10%

OF all those an american bulldog is your best bet, 33%-50%

(*all approximations obviously)

A good herder from a proven breeder with proven lines appears to give you a 50% or better chance of success, they are like a fighter going to a legit MMA school that has produced champions. 

Many of the unproven, all word of mouth bandog breeders, are the dirtbag or dainty guys that have never fought or competed, but make up fake stories and say their stuff is too deadly for the ring.

(*also, Ive noticed all breeders will tell you that there dog will turn into what ever you want and train for. Dog trainers and brokers seem to say its mainly genetics and the dog will either have it or it wont, and that bloodlines/pedigrees are no guarantee)


----------



## Stelios Sdrolias (Aug 1, 2009)

That is what happens when one gets exposed to poor examples of breeds like bandogs and presas (i agree most CC dont make the grade)

Your "99%" comment is understandable,yet very unfair.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Are you the Matt that was on true grit ?? I never go there anymore, just curious.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Which would beg the quesion; just how much experience do you have with the Mal? While they aren't my favorite dog, you have to admire their abilities. I agree, no dog is born a protection dog.


Mal, I agree. I've known a number of them that wouldn't think twice of challenging the intruder, from police to sport dog.

As for a dog not being born a protection dog? Here, I disagree. If the dog doesn't bring the protection qualities with it, how can it be "trained" into it? OK, a trained protection dog is probably not to be sniffed at, but if the crunch comes to the crunch, I'd prefer the dog that feels it's his job to protect, even if this does bring "slight" hazards with it. Here, the training would in my mind consist of training him to allow harmless guests into the house. 

My Fila and my elder GSD accepted and accept my word as to who can enter the "castle" or not but with people invited for a meal, I prefer to send them to the dungeon to ensure a peaceful atmosphere where the guests can enter the bathroom at will :grin: whilst I'm slaving away in the kitchen, absorbed in stirring my risotto or whatever!


----------



## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

I think the original question went like this. For guard dogs what are each of these breeds like. 

_GSD, Doberman Pinscher, Rottweiler, Bullmastiff, Fila Brasileiro, Presa Canario and Cane Corse. 
in terms of alertness, aloofness, strength, speed, endurance, bite force etc.
_
Alertness will be higher in the smaller of the breeds you have listed with the Doberman probably being the most active then the GSD, The activity level increases the likelihood of a discovery thus giving those two the edge in alertness. Next I would say the Cane Corso followed by the Presa (Though I have the least experience with the Presa) then the Bullmastiff, Rott Fila.

Aloofness, hands down the Fila and Presa followed in reverse order to the alertness answer above.

_speed, endurance,_ Again you can follow the size chart to get your most athletic starting with the Dobe then the GSD and the CC the others will be about the same depending on the individual dogs condition.

_bite force_ this is easy, the physical factors are the bite surface area, times the contracting muscle mass gives you the bite force _potential_
But _actual force _exerted is totally a factor of the dogs want to and the training the dog has.

I get a kick out of bite force questions and I know people with out first hand knowledge of live bites use this to wrap their minds around the possible damage a bite can inflict, but it is really like asking, "How many levels of OUCH! are there, and which do you prefer?" 
And last;
_which are the 7 mentioned breeds are most efficient to least efficient at guarding if compared amongst each others._

Well? That would be the ones with the best training program!

I will agree with some here that next time you might ask something a little more specific, like well, I dunno maybe.......... "which part of the Pacific Ocean is the saltiest, and how much salt is that!"

Butch Cappel
www.k9ps.com


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

steve davis said:


> *get a security system and buy a gun...
> 
> the term "gaurd dog" is old fashion and out of date. now-a-days if someone wants to really get into your house/"gaurded" property they will get through the dogs....
> 
> other than that i think that all of the above (if well bred) are well suited to get the job done at an equal state. bite force is one of those things that comes with an individual dog, not breed. BTW, i would pick a mali or dutchie over the dobie or rottie just my $.02*


Wow that is some loaded opinion. Please tell me the new term used for guard dogs. I would get a security system instead of a dog if you feel so uncomfortable since you'll be comming to my house to hang out.
Oh btw read my question first then answer. My question is not "which dog is the best that I should buy."







Ted Efthymiadis said:


> *
> 
> 
> Chris Ethelstan said:
> ...



If Malinois and Dutch Shepherds are not the top Schutzhund dogs then please tell me which are. I am not ruling out Mal or dutchie but there is a reason why Police and Army dogs main preference goes to German Shepherds, Doberman Pinschers, Rottweilers and Bullmastiffs and then Mal and Dutch Shepherd.

 Having said so I myself am a Dutch Shepherd fan I have seen the bit work training of Dutch Shepherds and I love their combined attacking traits that comes from most of the good guard dog breeds.

But Mal and Dutch's guarding abilities doesn't come close to a Fila or a Presa or a Cane Corso or a Rott and if you don't know that than may be you are the one who is close minded. 

 




Kyle Sprag said:


> Ted Efthymiadis said:
> 
> 
> > *I agree, this dog lived with me for a year, He was the most teritorial agressive dog I have seen.
> ...


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

" If Malinois and Dutch Shepherds are not the top Schutzhund dogs then please tell me which are. "
- The GSD smart guy. 

" Same goes for you, check out either of'em Fila, Presa, Cane Corso, Bully Kutta, Cauasian Ovtcharka, Rottweiler, Doberman Pinscher etc you will find their temperament fascinating. 50 times more than your Mal. And trust me when I say so cuz I am not joking. "
- Obviously you are not joking, but it sounds like you are...
A large percent of the people on this forum have Malinois, and some of those dogs would take your face off if they had to. The Malinois, and DS are not just sport dogs Chris. 





Watch this video, and then tell me this Malinois is not a good guarding dog....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz5JSLp_j8Y

This one also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4moJqmTtBgg


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Butch, 

You have to be careful with breed definitions. Within a breed there are so many facets of charecter, that it is nigh impossible to state which breed is more aloof or not, more territorial or not, more aggressive or not. Genes do not necessarily adhere themselves to breeds.

I have a GSD with the characteristics of a Fila. But, the GSD is far more athletically functional (working lines) than the Fila. The Fila Clubs, globally, are not interested in sport as a rule and are not over interested in having their dogs X-Rayed, as are a number of Molossian Dog Clubs. The best these dogs can normally expect out of life, is to ornament the back yard.The drive in the GSD working lines far supersedes the Molossian types, just to quote a difference.

The GSD is far more intense in his drives (tracking is equal) than the Fila. His desire to bite is far more intense. The Fila, physically slower, is easier to handle. However, when the Fila is awakened, then also the same good control as for the GSD is necessary.

I've seen Cane Coirsos, Presas, Mastiffs (Italian and Eglish, etc.) and know that the clubs, globally, are not interested in a dog that can function as a normal dog, i.e. I watched a Mastiff, at 5 years (!!) have difficulty in clambering into a normal estate car](*,)

So chances of any of these so-called guard dogs chasing the "would-be intruder" are nil. Maybe their "grin" would put a few off.

And maybe I'm off topic - put it down to a Sundowner!!


----------



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Stelios Sdrolias said:


> That is what happens when one gets exposed to poor examples of breeds like bandogs and presas (i agree most CC dont make the grade)
> 
> Your "99%" comment is understandable,yet very unfair.




Ive talked to and could have got bandogs from lucero, stock, and others.


Same with redstar presas (now have a friend that started a small kennel/breeding program from red star's best lines), and have spent tons of time around AB's.


There was a time when I thought those were the end all and be all of dogs, but now Im not interested.


And you have to admit that a large % of those guys are a joke. Ive seen many examples where they do nothing but cross to unproven dogs and then market them as superdogs, with nothing at all to substantiate it. There are some exceptions of people that have accomplished some things, but in life(and dogs) in general that seems the exception rather than the rule, with these bandog/bullies.........even more so.

Maybe because of my background in it........but the mma training seems to mirror things perfectly when it comes to determining who is legit and backs things up, and who is all talk and speculation.


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

"Same goes for you, check out either of'em Fila, Presa, Cane Corso, Bully Kutta, Cauasian Ovtcharka, Rottweiler, Doberman Pinscher etc you will find their temperament fascinating. 50 times more than your Mal. And trust me when I say so cuz I am not joking."

I don't need to "trust" you, I have a Doberman and had a Cane Corso for 7 years. Not sure I would call their guarding ability "facinating" in a good way. LOL


Keep reading those Fairy Tales! :roll:


----------



## Stelios Sdrolias (Aug 1, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> And you have to admit that a large % of those guys are a joke. Ive seen many examples where they do nothing but cross to unproven dogs and then market them as superdogs, with nothing at all to substantiate it. There are some exceptions of people that have accomplished some things, but in life(and dogs) in general that seems the exception rather than the rule, with these bandog/bullies.........even more so.


I totally agree..the large percentage are a joke..
I would not only judge any breeder by accomplishments alone..I'd rather test myself and make an educated decision.

By all means , i do not judge your opinion..I am just not putting everyone in the same bag (Greek expression).

Take care.


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> " *If Malinois and Dutch Shepherds are not the top Schutzhund dogs then please tell me which are. "**
> - The GSD smart guy. *



GSD's are the top schutzhund dogs. Thats why GSD's are my first preference when it comes to Shepherds intelligent guy. But was the comparision between GSD's and Mals? If so then you wrote a whole lotta topics wasting your time cuz I already mentioned GSD's are much more superior PPD than Mals you can try very hard not to except this fact but it is the bitter truth so you have to swallow it.




Ted Efthymiadis said:


> *" Same goes for you, check out either of'em Fila, Presa, Cane Corso, Bully Kutta, Cauasian Ovtcharka, Rottweiler, Doberman Pinscher etc you will find their temperament fascinating. 50 times more than your Mal. And trust me when I say so cuz I am not joking. "
> - Obviously you are not joking, but it sounds like you are...
> A large percent of the people on this forum have Malinois, and some of those dogs would take your face off if they had to. The Malinois, and DS are not just sport dogs Chris.*



Agreed that Mals are good guard dogs and never in the forum that I have mentioned that they arn't. I was not trying to sound cocky but since you have had only Mal you don't know about other breeds but I have seen the best of Mal and other breeds, and they will eat YOU alive without a burp even if they *don't* have to.





Ted Efthymiadis said:


> *Watch this video, and then tell me this Malinois is not a good guarding dog....
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz5JSLp_j8Y
> 
> This one also:
> ...


Since, you are so much into watching video's to descide the quality of a guard dog here is something you might really like. 
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyutvTJ4oDU*


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lee is back! Bring on Elmo


----------



## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Wow that is some loaded opinion. Please tell me the new term used for guard dogs. I would get a security system instead of a dog if you feel so uncomfortable since you'll be comming to my house to hang out.
> Oh btw read my question first then answer. My question is not "which dog is the best that I should buy."
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> "Same goes for you, check out either of'em Fila, Presa, Cane Corso, Bully Kutta, Cauasian Ovtcharka, Rottweiler, Doberman Pinscher etc you will find their temperament fascinating. 50 times more than your Mal. And trust me when I say so cuz I am not joking."
> 
> I don't need to "trust" you, I have a Doberman and had a Cane Corso for 7 years. Not sure I would call their guarding ability "facinating" in a good way. LOL
> 
> ...


=D>


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Since, you are so much into watching video's to descide the quality of a guard dog here is something you might really like.
> *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyutvTJ4oDU*


Oh! Please! Show me more! Laughter is the BEST way to start the day. I especialy love the off-leash one hopping around the decoy right around 2:00. Such an effective guard dog it is...\\/ :lol:


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> "Same goes for you, check out either of'em Fila, Presa, Cane Corso, Bully Kutta, Cauasian Ovtcharka, Rottweiler, Doberman Pinscher etc you will find their temperament fascinating. 50 times more than your Mal. And trust me when I say so cuz I am not joking."
> 
> I don't need to "trust" you, I have a Doberman and had a Cane Corso for 7 years. Not sure I would call their guarding ability "facinating" in a good way. LOL
> 
> ...


 
Dude dobes does not need any proof from my end to show that its a good guard dog. Cane corso are highly intelligent breeds and can understand their masters expression better than any other dogs. They are the kind of breeds who doesn't jump into conclusions too soon and if they think they master is feeling uneasy around someone they will they fierce gaurd their masters. You are the first person I hear who is claiming to not being satisfied with this breed, so what ever you say doesn't concerns me. Its hard to get a genuine cane cosro with a sharp temperament (and I belive O littres are believed to produce these kind of pups so you should check its pedigree line from ancestors) and if you are unsatisfied with it then you must have had a mutt which you are claiming as a cane corso.

PS. I'll be reading fairy tales as long as you'll keep posting. 




Gillian Schuler said:


> Butch,
> 
> You have to be careful with breed definitions. Within a breed there are so many facets of charecter, that it is nigh impossible to state which breed is more aloof or not, more territorial or not, more aggressive or not. Genes do not necessarily adhere themselves to breeds.
> 
> ...


 Are you saying Fila and GSD have a same temperament? =D>Bravo!




steve davis said:


> i dont think i like your attitude. you came onto the forum asking a question and are getting offensive. you asked your question and ppl are giveing you there answers. like i said, go ahead, get your "gaurd dog," invite me over and i will show you why a security system and a gun would be better. dogs are great for alerting potential danger but can they pull a trigger?? NO. like the old saying goes, dont bring a knife to a gun fight. now that would probably be in a worse case scenario.
> 
> also by the sounds of it, you dont have much experience with dogs, so if you want a dog that is good at alerting potential danger but is safe with you and your family, get a golden retriever.


Here is the thing, I don't like thier response. I hit back when I am being responded rudely.
All I think is these people have a very limited experience with a loaded openion and very limited set of knowledge. Ppl are saying that they only had Mal Shepherds so thats why they are the best guard dogs.lol

I have had a chihuahua, he was the best dog in the WORLD! even better than Mals.

P.S. I already have a gun and personal body guards. Are you asking me to buy more guns? I don't get your logic,asking for a guard dog means asking for a dog with that trait. If someone wants to buy a dog would you ask them to buy guns instead?lol


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Anna Kasho said:


> Oh! Please! Show me more! Laughter is the BEST way to start the day. I especialy love the off-leash one hopping around the decoy right around 2:00. Such an effective guard dog it is...\\/ :lol:


Does better than Mals and Dutchs any day, working with mals are like dancing with them. You honestly believe I'd let a 25 kgs dog pull me down (hahahahahohohohhohhehehehe).Plus this was the video I had. This should be WorkingMalforum.com please show me any better video than this.


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Agreed that Mals are good guard dogs and never in the forum that I have mentioned that they arn't. I was not trying to sound cocky but since you have had only Mal you don't know about other breeds but I have seen the best of Mal and other breeds, and they will eat YOU alive without a burp even if they *don't* have to.


Thank you for assuming that I have only worked Mals....
Rather than assume what I know, and have seen and worked, you should ask next time. 

I have had the chances to work a large variety of dogs most of them working in aggression and such.

Dobermans, Canes, GSDs, Rottis...... and many more.

I have seen the most of the breeds in action, and worked many of them, and I choose the Malinois for several reasons. 

Have a lovely day.


Also, I hardly see this video as proof that filas are such great guard dogs.


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Since, you are so much into watching video's to descide the quality of a guard dog here is something you might really like. 
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyutvTJ4oDU*[/quote]


Someplace around there is a really good boat video…. Show me the boat


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Does better than Mals and Dutchs any day, working with mals are like dancing with them. You honestly believe I'd let a 25 kgs dog pull me down (hahahahahohohohhohhehehehe).Plus this was the video I had. This should be WorkingMalforum.com please show me any better video than this.


Hope you brought your dancing shoes Chris. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7L4XNW-Ktw


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> Thank you for assuming that I have only worked Mals....
> Rather than assume what I know, and have seen and worked, you should ask next time.
> 
> I have had the chances to work a large variety of dogs most of them working in aggression and such.
> ...



I honestly wasn't here to argue. It was some misunderstanding. I also belive you have had more experience with dogs, since you describe that you have trained them while me watching being trained in Army. So, yeah you know things that I don't but these are some of the things I came up with watching different breeds around me being trained.

That was the only video I had. Sorry I couldn't post more. But when i'll get time I'll post some soon. I'll send some of the training videos and pics from the Army training grounds here.


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> Hope you brought your dancing shoes Chris.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46psdMxb0vA&feature=related


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Does better than Mals and Dutchs any day, working with mals are like dancing with them. You honestly believe I'd let a 25 kgs dog pull me down (hahahahahohohohhohhehehehe).Plus this was the video I had. This should be WorkingMalforum.com please show me any better video than this.


I didn't see anyone being pulled down by the dogs in your video Chris, did that part get edited out ?


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> *Hope you brought your dancing shoes Chris.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7L4XNW-Ktw*




I've been dancing alright. hehe btw I think thats Dutch Shepherd.

Now, here take a look at this. See the whole video, this isn't a Fila but a Presa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_PGm0p64bU
The presa is not trying to take down the intruder but its trying to hold him.


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> I honestly wasn't here to argue. It was some misunderstanding. I also belive you have had more experience with dogs, since you describe that you have trained them while me watching being trained in Army. So, yeah you know things that I don't but these are some of the things I came up with watching different breeds around me being trained.
> 
> That was the only video I had. Sorry I couldn't post more. But when i'll get time I'll post some soon. I'll send some of the training videos and pics from the Army training grounds here.



In all fairness Chris, I have very little experience in working dogs compared to some of the people on this forum. I respect there opinions a heck of a lot, and have learned a huge amount from some of these people. 
And many of them are also Malinois people, this is one of the reasons that I like the Malinois and DS and even the GSD so much. If the pro use them, they much be using them for a reason. 

Then again, this is my opinion... and you have yours. 
I have a feeling that you like some of those breeds more for there brute size, and deep bark. Am I correct?
Maybe, maybe not. 

I choose the Malinois over all breeds for a reason, they are very very versitile and the breed is not nearly as watered down as many other breeds. 

I am sorry we got off track, however I do not feel like Malinois or Dutchies should be left out of the conversation of which dog makes a good guard dog.

Peace


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

I think some fail to realize that there are quite a few Mals out there that are near 90 to 100 lbs

My friends dog Vito was 95lbs in lean shape, Porter was 100lbs, the dog in the Pic I posted was 87lbs

If size is your thing


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> I've been dancing alright. hehe btw I think thats Dutch Shepherd.
> 
> Now, here take a look at this. See the whole video, this isn't a Fila but a Presa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_PGm0p64bU
> The presa is not trying to take down the intruder but its trying to hold him.


 
One of the better Presas I have seen but not impressive by any means compared to other breeds.

What do you see that is so impressive in this video?


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> One of the better Presas I have seen but not impressive by any means compared to other breeds.
> 
> What do you see that is so impressive in this video?


the holding method. The alertness and the brute strength, the agility . That dog is well over 50 Kgs. Honestly its a better video than what I'm being showen by the people over here. So compared to that, yeah I'd say pretty impressive.


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> the holding method. The alertness and the brute strength. That dog is well over 50 Kgs


 
Well, as someone who has worked and seen a variety of these dogs I see, poor grips, NO pressure, not much use of size and a dog playing a game.

Looks like a young dog as well and Maybe 115 lbs.


The dog may have potential but not what I wan't as backup.


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> the holding method. The alertness and the brute strength, the agility . That dog is well over 50 Kgs. Honestly its a better video than what I'm being showen by the people over here. So compared to that, yeah I'd say pretty impressive.


The dogs biting in prey drive... so how does that make him a guard dog?
He does not see the decoys as a threat.


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Well, as someone who has worked and seen a variety of these dogs I see, poor grips, NO pressure, not much use of size and a dog playing a game.
> 
> Looks like a young dog as well and Maybe 115 lbs.
> 
> The dog may have potential but not what I wan't as backup.


  Maybe, but then again I think the Bite work (bite fore, bite accuracy) depends on individual dogs as well am I right? 




Ted Efthymiadis said:


> The dogs biting in prey drive... so how does that make him a guard dog?
> He does not see the decoys as a threat.



Now you are talking. These are the things I wanned to learn. The traits and the required skill to be a PPD. And the things that you have pointed out. I would appriciate if you would guide me more on this.


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Maybe, but then again I think the Bite work (bite fore, bite accuracy) depends on individual dogs as well am I right?


Yes, to some extent it depends on the individual but poor training is not going to help.

The dog's Intention is more important for what it sounds like you want.


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Maybe, but then again I think the Bite work (bite fore, bite accuracy) depends on individual dogs as well am I right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is a long process, but I would be willing to help you with some knowledge. 
PM me, and we can work out a way to connect.


----------



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

There are bullmastiffs being used by police or military?


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> There are bullmastiffs being used by police or military?



hmmm yes.





kim guidry said:


> How does me wanting to have a dog concern my question?
> 
> My question is : I want to know how the mentioned 7 well bred breeds guarding abilities differ from each other. That will be in terms of alertness, aloofness, strength, speed, endurance, bite force etc.
> 
> Plus, I thought PPD training is a man work, no such dog is a born a personal protection dog  :lol:


Ouch! Dude... I was just asking a question. All i'm saying is that is that there is a difference between a " guard" dog and a PPD. You have a rainbow of dog breeds. They all have good and not so good points about them. I don't believe that a puppy can pop out and say " hey I'm a ppd...look at meeeee" However, if someone wants to groom that dog into a ppd there are certain traits you would look for in a puppy. 

How bout we start over? For your needs and wants, what qualities would you like to see in a dog? IMHO it may help you narrow your search?:-k[/quote]


Okey so there was enough off topic discussions.

I am here to know more about the required PPD skills and traits myself. It would be described by you if you describe about both the breeds and the required skills for them to become a PPD.
From my point of view I alwayse say a good gaurd dog is not the one who is taught to bite because a guard dog is born and not made. However I would alwayse look for a very sharp temperament with high prey drive in dogs which I would like me to back up.


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Okey to all of the people who are Malinois fan, here is the thing, I don't see Mals as that great guard dogs... I don't want to get into it may be I am wrong am, if so do tell me which are the traits makes them best rather than argueing because that won't help either if us but I'll be the one who will alwayse have a misunderstanding about this breed.

As for my part, here: http://www.guarddogtraining.com.au/html/dogs_for_sale.html

I would like know if they are such good dogs why are they the one's with the least price?

My opinion, certainly lest effective than the others.


----------



## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

If i was looking for a so called guard dog i would not limit myself to a certain breed.Any dog with the right attitude would be great.Then of course there are some practicle concerns.A killer doberman would not work out in Alaska and i would not want a heavy breed here in thailand.Dont be a racist if you are looking for a dog to do a certain job.


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

jack van strien said:


> If i was looking for a so called guard dog i would not limit myself to a certain breed.Any dog with the right attitude would be great.Then of course there are some practicle concerns.A killer doberman would not work out in Alaska and i would not want a heavy breed here in thailand.Dont be a racist if you are looking for a dog to do a certain job.


yeah certainly doberman's won't, if you want the dog to act as an LGD. They are indoor dogs and will be better as a PPD. My main concern is that the dog should be of medium to large size, which must weigh around 80lbs at the least to 150 lbs but with proper agility and most importantly they should have a razor sharp temperament ("something like this Belgian Malinois: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz5JSLp_j8Y") and great amount of strength to pull a heavy decoy down.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> hmmm yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps you can help educate me a bit. What exactly are the differences between a "guard" dog and PPD.

Also, which military is using mastiffs?

DFrost


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Perhaps you can help educate me a bit. What exactly are the differences between a "guard" dog and PPD.
> 
> Also, which military is using mastiffs?
> 
> ...



It was not my post smarty pants....



I never said anything about guard dogs Vs PPDs


But since you have asked. Assuming the dog who is well bred, socialized and mentally mature(whatever age that may be for that breed and particular dog). This dog has had no special training but just territorial guarding instincts of his home turf. To me this is guarding, not PP or such other trained man work..


Which army doesn't use Bullmastiff? please tell me since you know so much and accusing me of a lie.


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> smarty pants....
> 
> This is great, "smarty pants"


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> It was not my post smarty pants....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I apologize for attributing those statements to you. My mistake, it's early, I didn't sleep well, dogs are barking and I'm not experiencing my normal state of alertness this morning. 


I'll take the "smarty pants" comment as you just having a great sense of humor. I do as well. I would, however be interested in you pointing out where I said you lied. 

So a guard dog can be a dog with territorial issues, ok, I can understand that. As for the Bullmastiff's in the U.S. Military, I guess that's a new thing. I only spent 23 years in the Military Working Dog Program - Thirteen of those years were at the DOD Military Working Dog School. At no time did we have Mastiffs of any kind. I know things of changed in military since I retired. It's funny though, I've still never heard of mastiffs being used. well not since WWII anyway.

DFrost


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I only spent 23 years in the Military Working Dog Program - Thirteen of those years were at the DOD Military Working Dog School. 

Man you got to play with a lot of dogs


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> I only spent 23 years in the Military Working Dog Program - Thirteen of those years were at the DOD Military Working Dog School.
> 
> Man you got to play with a lot of dogs


Yes sir, a lot of dogs. Figure there were approximately 500 in training at any given time and another 600 to 700 awaiting training. That was a lot of dogs. Three of the 13 years were spent in research and development. Some of the things we did are still classified, as far as I know. I see the results, in one form or the other, today
in several areas. 

DFrost


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Yes sir, a lot of dogs. Figure there were approximately 500 in training at any given time and another 600 to 700 awaiting training. That was a lot of dogs. Three of the 13 years were spent in research and development. Some of the things we did are still classified, as far as I know. I see the results, in one form or the other, today
> in several areas.
> 
> DFrost


Interesting, and you say no bullmastiffs. Lee just cant win


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

What job would a bullmastiff have any in a MWD program. This sounds ridiculas.:^o


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Sorry guys, couldn't help but laugh at some of this.......


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

David Frost said:


> I apologize for attributing those statements to you. My mistake, it's early, I didn't sleep well, dogs are barking and I'm not experiencing my normal state of alertness this morning.
> 
> 
> I'll take the "smarty pants" comment as you just having a great sense of humor. I do as well. I would, however be interested in you pointing out where I said you lied.
> ...


Telling me that there arn't any Bullmastiff's used in the army whatever country that may be, is like trying to make it look like I am telling a lie isn't it? Because I said that they do use Bullmastiffs and a whole lotta of other breeds, labs, Blood hounds, Pitbulls, Dobes, Rotts etc..etc.etc.etc.... even mutts.

Its interesting how you know that whole of the US army regmnt. doesn't have Bullmastiffs or any other breed than GSD, Mals and Dutche's... hmmmm. Just which unit were you in, what was your profile or rank? I am saying this because i happen to know Lt. General of the US army and he showed me the whole training base and the training process. Where were you posted anyway? I am too curious to hear from you, cuz the things you said makes no sense. It might be that you may have been assigned to a MPK9 unit that did not have any other variety but just cuz you don't know don't say the information is incorrect even if you have worked there for 13 years. Half knowledge is alwayse dangerous :-$

btw i loved your sarcasm* NOT*.:lol:





todd pavlus said:


> What job would a bullmastiff have any in a MWD program. This sounds ridiculas.:^o


Sorry I am not IN the army so I don't know what is use that they have. I think they wanna play throw and fetch with them and are fool to pay 15,000 euros to buy each puppy. Really they are stupid rn't they?





Jody Butler said:


> Sorry guys, couldn't help but laugh at some of this.......


Another ankle biter speaks. So you know so much why don't you share some of your humor and knowledge with me plz... BTW I donn understand what do you find sooooooo much funny????? I think you have a humor malfunction, you need to go to a mental institution. You act rude, you sound cocky and seem stupid.


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Could you please explain what role a bullmastiff plays in the military. The ones I've been around are slow, slobbery, and get overheated very quickly. Do they clear mine feilds with them???


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Gents, maybe in the past in an R & D role, however in the US Army, they is NOT one working, unless as a training aid at the schoolhouse, which I haven't seen. (Just like a Boxer, Doberman, etc)

There is a Statement of Work that is utilized and adhered to, that says, GSD, DS, Mal or a mix of these three dogs. 

So again, Bullmastiff...... actually this funny to here some of this but get's me heated to know that some of you actually think this is correct, and or say your someone your not or where in X amount of years........

I'm done, BTW, Todd, what's up, yeah I'd use a Bullmastiff to clear a mine field....NO TRAINING, just send him!!!


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Telling me that there arn't any Bullmastiff's used in the army whatever country that may be, is like trying to make it look like I am telling a lie isn't it? Because I said that they do use Bullmastiffs and a whole lotta of other breeds, labs, Blood hounds, Pitbulls, Dobes, Rotts etc..etc.etc.etc.... even mutts.
> 
> Its interesting how you know that whole of the US army regmnt. doesn't have Bullmastiffs or any other breed than GSD, Mals and Dutche's... hmmmm. Just which unit were you in, what was your profile or rank? I am saying this because i happen to know Lt. General of the US army and he showed me the whole training base and the training process. Where were you posted anyway? I am too curious to hear from you, cuz the things you said makes no sense. It might be that you may have been assigned to a MPK9 unit that did not have any other variety but just cuz you don't know don't say the information is incorrect even if you have worked there for 13 years. Half knowledge is alwayse dangerous :-$
> 
> btw i loved your sarcasm* NOT*.:lol:


I didn’t read any sarcasm his post, maybe mine but not his. Anyway you look at it that’s a lot of dog training/ experience under his belt. There aint to many people in the world who can say what Dave can.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Telling me that there arn't any Bullmastiff's used in the army whatever country that may be, is like trying to make it look like I am telling a lie isn't it?
> 
> Its interesting how you know that whole of the US army regmnt. doesn't have Bullmastiffs or any other breed than GSD, Mals and Dutche's... hmmmm. Just which unit were you in, what was your profile or rank?
> btw i loved your sarcasm* NOT*.:lol:
> ...


Not exactly sure why you are being so defensive. Not knowing you, I'm sure I haven't had the opportunity to offend you --- yet. In answer to a couple of your quiestions, which by the way show just a bit of a lack of knowledge about the Military Working Dog Program; I was, at one time or another, an instructor, team chief and course chief of every program the MWD Program has. At one time, I was also the Superintendant of the MWD School. I retired a Sr NCO. The unit I was in was; The Department of Defense, Military Working Dog School. They may have changed the name since I retired, can't say for sure. I never said the US Army had only GSD's Mals and Dutchies. In fact I know they also have some Labs. What I did say was, they didn't use any Mastiffs, since WWII, that I was aware of and that I was associated with that program for many years. They have also trained Beagles, Carin Terriors, a few Bouviers (sp?) a few Dobies, a few Rotties (during my career) can't say if they use them any more. At any rate, unless you have some specific bone to pick with me, I see no need in being rude or making personal remarks. 

DFrost


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Agreed, the SSD program uses pointers, labs, border collies, etc (Off Leash Explosive Detection Only)

As far as thier protection trained (This was a Guard dog thread wasn't it) then for some time now it has been only the three specific breeds mention above and or course a cross between the three.....


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> I didn’t read any sarcasm his post, maybe mine but not his. Anyway you look at it that’s a lot of dog training/ experience under his belt. There aint to many people in the world who can say what Dave can.



There may be no denying that, that he is one of the best trainers but its not related to training. I know Bullmastiffs are working breeds and I am not that blind to confuse a bullmastiff with some other breed.
Maybe it was being used for experimental purpose but I am that sure that I can bet my life on it.



Jody Butler said:


> Gents, maybe in the past in an R & D role, however in the US Army, they is NOT one working, unless as a training aid at the schoolhouse, which I haven't seen. (Just like a Boxer, Doberman, etc)
> 
> There is a Statement of Work that is utilized and adhered to, that says, GSD, DS, Mal or a mix of these three dogs.
> 
> ...


Mine detection dogs alwayse weigh less than 50 lbs, its a precautionary step because even if the dog steps on the RDX or mine or whatever that explosive maybe ,so that it won't explode. And Bullmastiffs are way over 50 lbs:lol:
See another stupid comment posted by you. But it only makes me laugh to see the people go with you and laugh at me even after you post such type of comments.


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Seriously, I am done here!!! There are now weight limitations to MDD.


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

You still haven't explained what the bullmastiff is used for. I'm guessing you have no answer and are just spewing BS](*,)


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Mine detection dogs alwayse weigh less than 50 lbs said:


> Kinda makes me laugh that you don't get the sarcasm that the only thing a Bull Mastiff is worth now days is clearing Mine fields.....Get it, they need to be over 50lbs........#-o


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> There may be no denying that, that he is one of the best trainers
> 
> Mine detection dogs alwayse weigh less than 50 lbs, its a precautionary step because even if the dog steps on the RDX or mine or whatever that explosive maybe ,so that it won't explode. And Bullmastiffs are way over 50 lbs:lol:
> 
> See another stupid comment posted by you. But it only makes me laugh to see the people go with you and laugh at me even after you post such type of comments.



I don't make that claim. I claim to be nothing more than a pretty fair country dog trainer. 

You statements about mine dogs however are amusing. It also shows a lack of knowledge on the subject.

The last comment is not needed. No one is calling you names. They are only asking you about comments you've made. No need to call anyone names.

DFrost


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Not exactly sure why you are being so defensive. Not knowing you, I'm sure I haven't had the opportunity to offend you --- yet. In answer to a couple of your quiestions, which by the way show just a bit of a lack of knowledge about the Military Working Dog Program; I was, at one time or another, an instructor, team chief and course chief of every program the MWD Program has. At one time, I was also the Superintendant of the MWD School. I retired a Sr NCO. The unit I was in was; The Department of Defense, Military Working Dog School. They may have changed the name since I retired, can't say for sure. I never said the US Army had only GSD's Mals and Dutchies. In fact I know they also have some Labs. What I did say was, they didn't use any Mastiffs, since WWII, that I was aware of and that I was associated with that program for many years. They have also trained Beagles, Carin Terriors, a few Bouviers (sp?) a few Dobies, a few Rotties (during my career) can't say if they use them any more. At any rate, unless you have some specific bone to pick with me, I see no need in being rude or making personal remarks.
> 
> DFrost



You were the one to tell me that how you have never seen a BM in the army in you entire life. I too know ppl from the ministry of defence who can give me a private tour to these Working K9 Training Camps as the Sr NCo's special guest. But never mind that YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU ARE PERFECT. I am not in the Army but you were once. HAPPY:mrgreen:??




Jody Butler said:


> Seriously, I am done here!!! There are now weight limitations to MDD.


hahahahohohohohhehehehe. Go learn if you don't know it. Still doesn't sound smart one bit.




todd pavlus said:


> You still haven't explained what the bullmastiff is used for. I'm guessing you have no answer and are just spewing BS](*,)


Answered in my previous post hot shot. I AM NOT *IN* THE ARMY. So, i don't know. If I were to guess then i'd say there used for guarding or something. Certainly not patrolling i suppose but then again I might be wrong.





Kyle Sprag said:


> Kinda makes me laugh that you don't get the sarcasm that the only thing a Bull Mastiff is worth now days is clearing Mine fields.....Get it, they need to be over 50lbs........#-o


no no I did get the sarcasm I was just try my best to make fun of her. But I failed :-(


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jody Butler said:


> Seriously, I am done here!!! There are now weight limitations to MDD.


It only shows he has a complete lack of knowledge about the subject. 

DFrost


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU ARE PERFECT. I am not in the Army but you were once. HAPPY:mrgreen:??


Do you mind if I show the "Right" and "Perfect" comments to my wife? I do keep telling her exactly that. Just to be accurate, I was never in the Army. I was in the Air Force. Have your people in the Ministry of Defense (what country are you from anyway) explain the significance of the Air Force and the Dog School. You might get a kick out of the history.

DFrost


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

MInistry of defense? You are obviously not from this country. Isn't it called DOD


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

I just watched the Dog of Peace (land mine dog) video posted a week or so ago, the only dog Under 50lbs was the 8 week old pup..... :roll:


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

David Frost said:


> I don't make that claim. I claim to be nothing more than a pretty fair country dog trainer.
> 
> You statements about mine dogs however are amusing. It also shows a lack of knowledge on the subject.
> 
> ...


I asked once this question why labs are used for mine detection, why not GSD's, rn't they not good enough to sniff out bombs? Well I was answered the same answer that I have posted.




David Frost said:


> It only shows he has a complete lack of knowledge about the subject.
> 
> DFrost


*exactly*. But how much knowledge do you have genious?




David Frost said:


> Do you mind if I show the "Right" and "Perfect" comments to my wife? I do keep telling her exactly that. Just to be accurate, I was never in the Army. I was in the Air Force. Have your people in the Ministry of Defense (what country are you from anyway) explain the significance of the Air Force and the Dog School. You might get a kick out of the history.
> 
> DFrost


 No I am not from the US. But i was talking about the US people. Which are from "DOD".


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> I just watched the Dog of Peace (land mine dog) video posted a week or so ago, the only dog Under 50lbs was the 8 week old pup..... :roll:


8 week old puppy, 50 lbs????=D>, are you trying to be funny??? "hahaha" does that work?
Seems like you all have done phd.

I am sorry to bother you guys you just know too much.





NO ONE KNOWS NOTHING HERE THIS PROVES IT. All So-called dog trainers...


lmfao....

If trying to insult me is what you guys are looking after then F*****~LOVE~ OFF.



please don't try to convince me that you are that damn good and show me some youtube video to prove your point....


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

you must have some trouble reading,

I wrote that the ONLY dog UNDER 50lbs was the 8 week old pup, in part one.

Here you can watch the series.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUfvsuuZA8I&feature=channel


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

I only say this because I feel insulted. Same comments can be made politely. I feel i am not welcomed to this forum. I am new and I din wanned to argue. But I hate rude attitudes towards me. And I din mean you, I meant to the people who are being rude to me... If you know something you can alwayse share. Its not cool to insult someone if they don't know anything. I came here searching for knowledge, but only comments I read was regarding how close minded I am, and how absent my humor is and how little I know about dogs....

I really did not expect this. This thread has gone off topic from the start.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> I asked once this question why labs are used for mine detection, why not GSD's, rn't they not good enough to sniff out bombs? Well I was answered the same answer that I have posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If someone gave you inaccurate information about why Labs are used to sniff out bombs, as you put it, repeating it doesn't make it correct. You were given inaccurate information.

I don't know how much knowledge I have. I have trained mine detector dogs and I have trained "bomb" dogs. Both types of dogs I've trained have had actual finds. While that may or may not be an answer to how much knowledge I have, sure makes me feel good. 

I've never claimed to be a genious either, although I do have a healthy ego and feel pretty darn good about myself. I can also see that your primary goal is to create and then fuel an arguement. It doesn't take a genious to see that. I'm not sure if you are doing that to boost your ego, or if you really feel that insecure that you have to attack people using the anonimity of the computer. I can understand the keyboard ninja mentality though. You can't get my goat or cause me to get angry. It would be hard for you to do that in person, let alone on a computer. I do feel you are lost as last years Easter egg. I don't really understand why you insist on making argumentative comments and statements unless, as I said it's purely to be disruptive. I can only tell you; that won't last long. I would hope you try to engage some of the members in a meaningful discussion. 

DFrost


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

David Frost said:


> I can understand the keyboard ninja mentality though. You can't get my goat or cause me to get angry. It would be hard for you to do that in person, let alone on a computer.


If you are saying I'll be pissing in my pants once I see you. We'll just see about that if ever we will meet by coincidence. I am ont being a keyboard ninja I am holding a lot, I bet u won't be able to talk like that in front of me then. My rivals say I am good at picking up fights.





David Frost said:


> I've never claimed to be a genious either, although I do have a healthy ego and feel pretty darn good about myself.


That you don't have to tell me old man I can see that. You are an egoistic maniac.:lol:




David Frost said:


> I can also see that your primary goal is to create and then fuel an arguement. It doesn't take a genious to see that. I'm not sure if you are doing that to boost your ego, or if you really feel that insecure that you have to attack people using the anonimity of the computer. I do feel you are lost as last years Easter egg. I don't really understand why you insist on making argumentative comments and statements unless, as I said it's purely to be disruptive. I can only tell you; that won't last long. I would hope you try to engage some of the members in a meaningful discussion.




Now that kind of $hitty talk pisses me off, come you think of it you piss me off. I see you have some back up since you are an old member of this forum and I know what ever I'll say there will be someone here to counter for you. I don't care if you say I am wrong but if you approach towards me with a wrong attitude, I will definitely not talk to you politely. May be I am lost as last years Easter egg because you want me to be lost. Ppl like you deserve to be abused and insulted like $hit.


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Some obvious miscommunication here. WOW](*,)


----------



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Is it possible someone would try to 'troll' a dog discussion forum?


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

*HLR relatiion?*



Matt Grosch said:


> Is it possible someone would try to 'troll' a dog discussion forum?


Hey Matt,

That was a rhetorical question, right? LOL

If this guy isn't HLR, he must be related to him.


----------



## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: HLR relatiion?*



Thomas Barriano said:


> Hey Matt,
> 
> That was a rhetorical question, right? LOL
> 
> If this guy isn't HLR, he must be related to him.


You can always tell when you've done too much inbreeding...the eyes begin to cross


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: HLR relatiion?*



Candy Eggert said:


> You can always tell when you've done too much inbreeding...the eyes begin to cross


Or is that line-breeding FOR crossed eyes? Guess it depends on your perspective, lol!:-\"

Sorry, couldn't help myself.


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: HLR relatiion?*

enough off topic discussion. Can you tell me what are the skills a PPD should have?


----------



## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> P.S. I already have a gun and personal body guards. Are you asking me to buy more guns?


I really don't want to get in the middle of this but.....

this is my favorite part. 

then I like the part where you tell a man who has served 'OUR' country (that includes all U.S. Citizens and thank you Mr. Frost) that he doesn't know poo from Shinola and then in a very combative way still proceeds to ask for advice from quote: "so called dog trainers" instead of asking his military MOD or DOD friends.

I just don't get it....certainly seems like trolling


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> If you are saying I'll be pissing in my pants once I see you.
> 
> That you don't have to tell me old man I can see that. You are an egoistic maniac.:lol:
> 
> May be I am lost as last years Easter egg because you want me to be lost. Ppl like you deserve to be abused and insulted like $hit.


You really have a problem with understanding the English language don't you. Where did I say, or for that matter even imply I'd be scary to you. 

I agree I'm old and egotistical, can't argue that.

You have no idea about the abuse I've taken, geez louise. I'm a state worker for cryin' out loud. However, you can't insult me. All you can do is call me names, question my parentage and tell me I'm no good as a dog trainer. Nothing new there. 

I do take back the lost as last years easter egg though. You're just a moron.

DFrost


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

Jason Hammel said:


> I really don't want to get in the middle of this but.....
> 
> this is my favorite part.
> 
> ...



trolling???? lol... I assume you don't know poo about dog either. Cuz if you would have known you should have shared the information rather than acting like a poo yourself. Don't try too hard to show yourself as mr. hot shot cuz you ain a shit, just a waste to time. My questions doesn't go to ignorant shits like yourself. You guys are the kinds of pests who makes a forum boring. The people who can answer will answer.
And this is my favorite part I would seek for advice and do what ever I want to and you can't do a shit about it.




David Frost said:


> You really have a problem with understanding the English language don't you. Where did I say, or for that matter even imply I'd be scary to you.
> 
> I agree I'm old and egotistical, can't argue that.
> 
> ...


Keep telling that to yourself you self delusional retard. Only one acting like a moreon is you. You seem quite immature you act like a 12 year old. A kid having a cyber fight. Need I have to say more? Piss off...


----------



## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

Look man I could care less really what you say about me. Its cool if it makes you feel better. Take your bi-polar meds and chill out. You get yourself so worked up it's amazing.


----------



## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

and where are you from anyway? does your momma know you talk like that? :-D


----------



## Ashley Pugh (Nov 9, 2007)

Man. I never thought I'd see someone actually trolling WDF. Who needs TV anymore!?


----------



## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

Is this guy the line-bred offspring of the porch sitting Banjo player from deliverance or what. At first it was funny, now its getting stupid (not funny stupid either). The door is :arrow:.


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)




----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

** extremely offensive post deleted **


----------



## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

Finally got video of this guy. Here it is www.youtube.com


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

deleted post


----------



## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

everyone close there eyes!!


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Keep telling that to yourself you self delusional retard. Only one acting like a moreon is you. You seem quite immature you act like a 12 year old. A kid having a cyber fight. Need I have to say more? Piss off...


Why not be cool about stuff? I mean, David Frost obviously has a lot of experience, apparently a lot in police and military apps. Maybe learn what you can from him. Right now you are coming across as either being a troll or thin-skinned and defensive. You catch more flies with honey and whatnot. Besides, somebody who's put themselves on the line in a military and police application deserves more respect than that, from trolls or otherwise.

-Cheers


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

deleted post


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

David Ruby said:


> Why not be cool about stuff? I mean, David Frost obviously has a lot of experience, apparently a lot in police and military apps. Maybe learn what you can from him. Right now you are coming across as either being a troll or thin-skinned and defensive. You catch more flies with honey and whatnot. Besides, somebody who's put themselves on the line in a military and police application deserves more respect than that, from trolls or otherwise.
> 
> -Cheers



If only he talked like you, i wouldn't be talking back to him. BUT!!! 


I couldn't care less now I know I'll be banned.... so I am enjoying trolling.
I don't like this forum anyway. People here are full of hate and disrespect. I like peace and decency which is unexpected from this forum. I have met good peole but majority are kiss asses ganging up on me rather tring to gang bang like gay shit. hehehe...
No offence to you though you are few of the people who atleast showed me some respect.


----------



## Chris Ethelstan (Aug 9, 2009)

deleted post


----------



## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

Now you're getting funny. The old "yo momma" jokes. Learn to spell, learn to read and understand what you're reading. Then and only then, you may learn something. You keep spouting about respect, but you show none to anyone. The first couple of replies to your original post were people trying to get a clearer understanding of what you wanted. Because noone would answer the way you wanted them to answer, you became defensive. At this point, what person in their right mind would help you. You act like a petulant child. In the US we don't have a Ministry of Defense, its the Department of Defense. And the Lackland Air Force base in San Antonio is where our MWDs are trained. Mr Frost's former military assignment.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> As I said before, to earn respect you have to give respect. But you guys couldn't care less about respect right? I couldn't care less either... I have nothing to learn from here so I am enjoying abusing each and every fukking one of you. And I will be abusing all of you till I am banned. So y'all can kiss my asss.



Harold Lee Robinson,

Everybody knows it's you. Why don't you leave the adults alone and go play on your own list. The one with38 members LOL
Of course you probably have me on your avoidance list again. so you don't see any of my posts.

Moderators, It seems like "Chris" is begging to be banned?


----------



## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> This man can answer all your questions.
> 
> http://chimerakennels.com/


 
wait is that this guy? that gerry was talking about?


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

This thread is tooo funny! I started reading it from the beginning just today and when I got to the first part where this crazy guy mentioned Bull Mastiffs being used by the DOD I actually laughed outloud #-o
I have never in my life seen or heard of a bull mastiff being used by DOD. I have every single statement of work for every working dog job in the DOD and none of them will allow a Bull Mastiff. Just as thought, neither will the FBI, the ATF, US Customs, US Border Patrol, the CIA, the Secret Service, DEA, or USDA.
Perhaps they are purchased by the chow hall NCO's for use as a meat source???


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Hey now, no picking on "the spoons" - they use horse meat, not Bullmastiff! LOL j/k (hubby's a re-classed cook, btw) Though that would explain the taste of the Soul Food meals served on Thursdays...hmmmmmmmm.


----------



## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

Chris Ethelstan said:


> Kiss MY ***


swivel on it..


----------

