# who has working doberman pups



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Hi to my old friends on here. I am looking for another person. She is wanting to find someone who breeds working Dobermans. Let me know if you know someone. thanks


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hey Jerry, good to see you!

Cindy over at LB had a working Dobe in the past. She may have an answer.


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## Ashley Allstun (Aug 8, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Hi to my old friends on here. I am looking for another person. She is wanting to find someone who breeds working Dobermans. Let me know if you know someone. thanks


I have a litter from an IPO1 male, IPO2 female. They're almost two weeks old, just one pup left available. 

I'd also check with Masaya, Landgraf, Moeller Hof, and Adlercrest.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Hello Bob and to all my other friends on here. Miss you all but BUSY with OUR veterans and their service dogs. I'll send the link to the latest graduation class for all to see.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jerry, thanks for your efforts with the service dogs and the vets!

Your top shelf in my book!


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## Tony Hahn (May 28, 2011)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Hi to my old friends on here. I am looking for another person. She is wanting to find someone who breeds working Dobermans. Let me know if you know someone. thanks


 It all depends on what your friend considers a “Working” Dobermann. 

I’ve been sort of half-heartedly looking for the last couple of years. 

There are several breeders producing dogs with a decent shot of at least participating in club level SchH/IPO. 

On the other hand, there aren’t many (if any) breeders with a proven record of producing Dobermann’s that have the nerve and drive to be high level SchH/IPO dogs. 
It appears almost impossible to find a breeder who has hit on the formula to produce “Real” working Dobermann’s, ie dogs with the nerve and balanced drives of a Patrol Dog. Plenty of breeders can talk about the lines/pedigrees, but there is a severe lack of evidence regarding what they can produce themselves. You won’t find many (if any) videos of tie-out testing or other high pressure stuff; you won’t find breeders who year after year produce litters that grow up to earn SchH/IPO III, etc., etc. 

You could try overseas breeders. Personally, I don’t have the connections necessary to feel confident dealing with one. 

I guess I’m responding in your thread just to vent some frustration more than to offer advice. After searching, I concluded that if you want a Dobermann who can earn IPO1 in a relatively low stress atmosphere, there are several choices. If that is all your friend wants, the breeders already mentioned should suffice as well as several others that turn up on an internet search. 

The problem will be finding a breeder who can provide evidence that they’re capable of producing strong nerved, high drive, serous, “Real” working dogs. 

If you (or anyone else reading the thread) find a breeder who consistently produces serious, PSD quality Doberamnn’s, please send me an email. That isn’t sarcasm- I’m sincere- please let me know.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Tony Hahn;697601
If you (or anyone else reading the thread) find a breeder who consistently produces serious said:


> a decade ago Cedarhoff bread absolutely exquisite working Dobermans, out in Massachusetts and i don't actually know if Kathy Kraus is still at it because i saw her listed as chairing a major Doberman club in a blurb a friend sent me along with an AllBreed newsletter and that was 5 years back.
> i went to the kennel--it's small, at the time 7 dogs, and they used Hank Von Treau as a stud as well as her dog Flash, who had hurt his back sufficiently to be retired from competition because of the wear and tear of practices and trials over the years but he was absurdly spry and full of eagerness to bite when i met him. she titled all of her dogs and tested their nerves extensively and yet they were very sociable and so so beautiful--big bones, great heads, nice stance, healthy and properly screened to prove it, etc. i reserved a puppy, bought her outright at a month old, and then had to back out two weeks later because i was in college at the time and finally admitted that i wouldn't have enough time to raise the dog properly. she returned everything but the 200$ deposit fee, very understanding, totally only concerned with what was best for her dogs, class act all the way. she also warned me a few times that it was going to be harder for me to get Schutzhund--which is what it was then, not IPO--titles on a Doberman because they are not German Shepherds and they are not Malinois. she made it plain that trainers and judges don't all give Dobermans a fair shake, and that Dobermans are just more of a challenge (ever since they started banning cropped ears in Europe and losing all those capable dogs, and because working Dobermans are not the popular type of Doberman in the US, and because they are not a herding breed and needed a different approach to accomplish the same tasks sometimes) and that i would be most successful if i pursued the best from my dog that i could achieve, rather than the highest scores in the least amount of time in prominent trials.
> maybe this sounds like what you've heard before or what you've experienced already which has made you frustrated with the breed?
> i've heard it said that Russia has real man-eating Dobermans in quantities to impress, but how does one get a dog from Russia? i've no idea. if Cedarhoff no longer sells dogs, then Kathy Kraus would still be a phenomenal resource for finding out who does have high caliber Dobes available.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Ive heard nothing but good things about Randy Tyson in Cali. Ive seen one working Dobe from her, and that dog was beautiful to watch.


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## Tony Hahn (May 28, 2011)

Bob- It’s been a decade or more since Cindy Rhodes quit breeding Dobermann’s. 


Catherine- Cedarhof appears to be out of the game also- the website is inactive and the most recent Cedarhof Dobermann on Working-dog.eu was born in 2001. Flash was the father of the female Kathy bred with Hank von Treau (producing that dog in 2001). 


A year or so ago I had some interest in a breeding with links back to Kathy and Cedarhof dogs. The breeder professed to know Kathy personally but would not provide me with her contact information. He more or less said that she just wanted to be left alone. In the end he appeared to be just another BYB/hobby breeder with a highly elevated opinion about his dogs and no titles/videos/independent evaluations to back up those opinions. Maybe the litter had great potential, maybe they were just OK, or maybe they were crappers….. who knows?? 


I did try contacting Kathy when I was looking at that litter. I cannot recall whether I ever got a response at all but I do know that nothing productive came of it.


My Dobermann did not require different training than GSD’s. There are some differences between breeds, but IMO the differences have more to do with how close, personal and affectionate the Dobermann is compared to the herding/farm dog heritage of the GSD. All dogs are individuals with individual training idiosyncrasies; but the generalizations about how you must train Dobermann’s different, how Judges or helpers don’t understand them, etc- is more about making excuses for poor temperament rather than legitimate breed differences. 


I’ve had some lengthy communications with a Russian breeder. In general, current Russian breeders are breeding from the same foundations as European Showline breeders. The breeder I’ve communicated with has some strong opinions about which Euro Show dogs have contributed to DCM and other health issues. Based on what she’s produced it would appear her opinions may have some merit. Ultimately though, healthy or not they’re still basically Euro Showline dogs. The dogs can do bitework, but at what level is unclear. They are definitely not “Man-eaters” though. Surely there are some Russian breeders specializing in real working dogs, but I don’t know how to locate and/or establish who’s legitimate.


Brian- If Randy Tyson is with Witmer-Tyson Imports, to my knowledge she isn’t a Dobermann breeder. Perhaps you know a different Randy Tyson? Do you have a website or contact info?


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

for Tony Hahn, there's this kind of abruptly configured website for Pride of Russia Dobermans that i looked at, and i didn't get any sense of how capable their dogs were but they were really great looking. there is no mention of any one of them being titled that i could infer, so perhaps this is what you meant when you said breeding showline dogs? if that's their version of showline, it still beats the pants off what we aim for in the US...spindly, kind of over-angulated, more attention paid to the set of their ears than their temperment, etc.
i am sad to hear that Cedarhoff is no longer in the game--my first tattoo ever was the headstudy/portrait of Flash on my left shoulder blade when i was 21, and i always kind of nurtured this long-shot dream of owning one of her dogs someday. i hope you achieve the coup of finding a really phenomenal Doberman breeder--or even find a puppy that meets your standards--because i have to believe that they are still out there. the sharpness and movement of a Doberman the way they were intended to be is one of the most beautiful sights on Earth.
for my part, i eventually followed the advice of getting a GSD for my first attempt at a real working dog, and she is by far the most intelligent and eager-to-please animal i've ever known, also a velcro dog through and through. if there were a creature out there that could love me more or understand me better, i'm not sure i could bear it!


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## Tony Hahn (May 28, 2011)

Pride of Russia may produce dogs with some working ability, but they are not known as a working dog breeder. Someone looking specifically for a dog to excel at Personal Protection or Bitesports wouldn't expect to find it in those pedigrees.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Quote

"Bob- It’s been a decade or more since Cindy Rhodes quit breeding Dobermann’s".


Understood!

I may have been that long since I discussed Dobes with her. 

She has some nice Mals now and a Border Terrier, one of my favorite breeds. I also believe she recently got an Australian Cattle Dog.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Tony Hahn said:


> Brian- If Randy Tyson is with Witmer-Tyson Imports, to my knowledge she isn’t a Dobermann breeder. Perhaps you know a different Randy Tyson? Do you have a website or contact info?



Yep, same Randy. Only what Ive heard, and the owner of the one Dobe I watched work said he came from Randy.


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