# Crate all day?!



## zarasmom (Nov 15, 2021)

I just got a IGP dog she is 2 partially trained. My trainer says she needs to be in her crate all day except when I take her out to train? Is that true or is she allowed to run out with my other dogs for a few hours as well. I feel so bad leaving her in there while the others run freely.
Also is she allowed to go places such as hikes or beach or is it specifically training and that’s all she gets? I just want to get more opinions, thanks!


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald (May 23, 2014)

Sorry I can't offer advise from the perspective of IGP or ring sport training, but commenting in the hopes it will generate discussion for you, from the guys experienced with this.

Seems ridiculous to me, and cruel. 
My experience is with Personal Protection dogs though, as 'trainer' and breeder not so long ago.
My attitude there has always been the more life experience the better for my dogs who were expected to accompany owners anywhere and to be present at most times. Confined only maybe to feed, breeding, when we are out with out them etc.
They were loose at Jam sessions, Kids parties and Bonfire nights, Free range including near 2 acres of gardens shared with free range chickens and often miniature horses or cats and surrounded by mountain scrub.

As the owner of many working type dogs over 50 years I wonder how much damage we are doing to these dogs with selection and training methods separated increasingly from any companion species role.

A good working dog, of any function, was traditionally a dog that could be relied on to perform naturally by choice. Training was just to show the dog _how _the job was to be done and when.

It took me a total of 10 years to find a breeding pair suited to my purpose and needs. I ended up using a cross breed and the line died out simply because the industry is focused on pure breeds and finding a suitable dog to continue with was impossible. Either because no breeder could afford to let it be known their dog sired Mutts, or they could not accurately read their dogs abilities temperament or limitations.
This despite one owner pulling out of protection training saying that "He didn't need it, he was doing it all naturally" Same dog also excelled at ob. agility and scent detection, living unconfined on a city estate.Another went on to do schutz and was titled with the club saying they hadn't seen that potential in the History of the club. Same dog served as a therapy dog for his owners Uni days and went on to do Dock diving and lure racing.
The presence of these dogs defused many potential situations before they had a chance of escalation with out a bite- Worst cases were a dog on the chest of a man snarling into his face, after he jumped out of hiding and an intruder found in the back yard curled into foetal position with dog ensuring he stayed that way till owner called her off.

Such dogs are getting harder and harder to find with environmental purpose and responsibility being last on the reasons to breed a dog, and few able to recognize it, or its value.


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## bobbyman (Nov 17, 2021)

Maybe your trainer wants your pup to not copy the behavior of other dogs that's why she needs to stay in crate but to be honest that would be too sd for your pup. Ask your trainer if your pup can walk without other dogs and with a leash on.


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## zarasmom (Nov 15, 2021)

Kirsten Fitzgerald said:


> Sorry I can't offer advise from the perspective of IGP or ring sport training, but commenting in the hopes it will generate discussion for you, from the guys experienced with this.
> 
> Seems ridiculous to me, and cruel.
> My experience is with Personal Protection dogs though, as 'trainer' and breeder not so long ago.
> ...


Thank you so much for all of this information. It helps a lot ☺


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald (May 23, 2014)

I hope it generates more discussion for your purpose.

I would like to clarify though, the dog titled in Schutz was competing as a Doberman, with special dispensation given by the club as a 2 yo. _after _he demonstrated his ability. His owner was cycling on a city trail with the dog when 2 men stepped out of the bushes and tried to stop her, Dog ran ahead doing the bounce walk, tail up and growling at each step causing the men to back off the trail and allow the owner passage.
The Mals dominate the club- The potential seen was as a working Dobe, so not general to all breeds seen at the club, just as a Dobe.

Year ago I mentioned on this site my male would alert me to fire arms being carried. I did not handle fire arms so it was asked what he would do if I handled them in front of him. I tried the experiment but never updated and the thread was closed by then. So for any one who was interested in the answer, after that day the dog still alerted/grumbled, but much more relaxed about it and only growled or approached if the fire arm were raised. Apologies for that trivia, but I've wanted to update on that since.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Cant speak for your trainer, but everytime Ive heard a trainer prescribe that, its because they think to allow them to hang out and just be dogs will kill the dogs drive. They believe by keeping them isolated the majority of their life, theyll perform better. Utter garbage advice. 
The dogs I've worked with all were "part of the family" when not working, and insanely driven monsters when working. My dogs can never have a low driven off day, as the consequences could cost me my life, along with others. That goes for every single dog I have ever known in my 40 years of working dog experience. If a dog needs to be crated 20+ hours a day to perform, that person should find another task for that dog, and get a dog that can actually do what they want the dog to do.


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