# Beauceron - Wounded Deer Tracking Vid.



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

1 1/2 year old Beauceron "Deja" trained to find wounded deer. Elle Deja des
Ombres Valeureux (Sire: Avatar O.V.; Dam: Voila O.V. Description below written
by her owner.

"Hi Debbie, Today was opening day for archery deer hunting here in Texas and
Deja got to track her first live deer. She did awesome. Thought I would send you
the video of her and a few pics so you can see her working. As she is able to
track further and further with less and less blood trail we will be able to help
others recover their deer. There is a big need for deer tracking dogs out
here....

Deja Tracking Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-l3J2uy0YM


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Very cool! There are a few States in the USA that allow that. Should be more.
A lot of it got started with a group of Daschund folks on the East coast.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Very cool! There are a few States in the USA that allow that. Should be more.
> A lot of it got started with a group of Daschund folks on the East coast.



I guess hats off to TX for not regulating everything to death like in CA!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Figure this out Debbie. States like Or, Mt., Co, Wy, Wa, Id all have stricter dog hunting regs than Ca. Dogs can be used to hunt more game animals than most.

On the video. Well done but I have a question and maybe I am missing something I have asked before and never really gotten an answer. Maybe you can answer it. If a dog can track an unwounded deer, bear, lion, person, through the mountains, is there a reason that adding fresh blood to the track would make tracking harder?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Figure this out Debbie. States like Or, Mt., Co, Wy, Wa, Id all have stricter dog hunting regs than Ca. Dogs can be used to hunt more game animals than most.
> 
> On the video. Well done but I have a question and maybe I am missing something I have asked before and never really gotten an answer. Maybe you can answer it. If a dog can track an unwounded deer, bear, lion, person, through the mountains, is there a reason that adding fresh blood to the track would make tracking harder?


I'm not a tracking expert. But, obviously the more scent i.e. blood, etc from the animal, the easier I think the tracking would be. Heck, my horse is great at spotting deer when I'm riding even when they are a canyon away. I don't think it's hard for a dog to track, but it takes training for them to track what and when you want is all. 

But, you can't run/hunt deer with dogs in CA or TX either right?

I'm happy that this novice owner has found something useful to do with her dog and is having fun doing it.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

It is legal to use one dog per hunter in Ca. for deer. As an aside, most die hard hunters spend enough time trying to break their dogs off deer that it would be crazy to hunt deer with them, I consider them trash game for dogs.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> It is legal to use one dog per hunter in Ca. for deer. As an aside, most die hard hunters spend enough time trying to break their dogs off deer that it would be crazy to hunt deer with them, I consider them trash game for dogs.


It's not legal in SoCal in the zone that my Dad and brother has hunted in for years (Imperial County). I don't know about the rest of CA. You cannot run deer with dog(s) where they hunt. Tracking a wounded animal is different.

Yes, my husband's grandfather bred and ran coonhounds for years in Ohio. They NEVER wanted the dogs to chase deer. Some of his Walker/Greyhound-Xs got off their chains (a story he told us) and ran deer down. These hounds could if allowed easily run deer into the ground so to speak. His were bred and trained for *****.

Also I remember him saying he had one that would always run a fox trail over a ****'s. That one he sold to someone specifically for fox. He only wanted **** hounds. But, that dog fit someone else's purpose. I was surprised at the prices he would get back then for top "first to tree hounds" and I can't remember the other term..maybe something about baying or being the fastest..

This particular Beauceron is not trained to run deer, but to help hunters find wounded deer. Many times a deer doesn't just drop, but runs on and it's hard for hunters to track and find it. If left it suffers and later dies.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

There are different regs for different areas I am sure. It is, or was legal in the northern areas, but S Cal is a different beast all together and is why most refer to it as Kalifornia. I may shold pick up anew book of regs because they seem to be changing things pretty fast. LOL No telling what is legal today may be illegal tomorrow. For all I know they made it illegal to even hunt deer here while we were asleep last night.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> There are different regs for different areas I am sure. It is, or was legal in the northern areas, but S Cal is a different beast all together and is why most refer to it as Kalifornia. I may shold pick up anew book of regs because they seem to be changing things pretty fast. LOL No telling what is legal today may be illegal tomorrow. For all I know they made it illegal to even hunt deer here while we were asleep last night.


CA! :x I haven't looked at hunting reg. book since I was about 16 years old. I haven't hunted since then. I can only guess it's thicker now than back then.. Around here, you can't move dirt or disc in many areas because you might kill a rat.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"On the eighth day the earth tilted and everything loose fell into California"  :-#


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

A quick question. Those that are experts in trailing and this type of tracking work, is it dangerous for the owner to have this kind of harness on her dog while working in the woods? She's using the orange harness for visibility as it is hunting season in Texas. 

A European on a Beauceron Lists saying that it is extremely dangerous. But, just knocking the novice owner for basically being stupid and not saying anything constructive..

American S&R folks were saying it would be in rubble work, but this is in the woods. If this is the best harness to use, what would be a better way to outfit the dog in "bright orange" so she's not mistaken for a deer running in the woods?

Thanks!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

That harness has three areas that can get snagged on limbs and debris. A harness/cape/cover similar to what a service dog might wear would be better as it cuts the areas to be snagged in half. If the dog is never going to be out of sight I guess that one in the video would be okay.

Some dogs, when they get hung up will fight to free themselves. Sometimes a limb will result in a web harness like that one to twist and cause panic as well as possibly constrict the dog with terrible results.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> That harness has three areas that can get snagged on limbs and debris. A harness/cape/cover similar to what a service dog might wear would be better as it cuts the areas to be snagged in half. If the dog is never going to be out of sight I guess that one in the video would be okay.
> 
> Some dogs, when they get hung up will fight to free themselves. Sometimes a limb will result in a web harness like that one to twist and cause panic as well as possibly constrict the dog with terrible results.



Thanks for the suggestions. I'll tell her to look for a cape..like a bandana? There's a supplier online isn't there.. "something" gear.. I forget the name..


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I'm sure there's something in hunter orange out there. I'd stay away from the light, mesh capes though because they snagged everything. A light canvas in orange would be ideal. Canvas will let briars slip by and the only real place for limbs to catch is the leading edge of the cape.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Howard is on the money. Last thing I do when turning dogs out to hunt is to make sure both the regular collar and the tracking collar is "tight" so the dog does not get hung up on the brush. I wouldn't turn one of my dogs loose in the brush here with a harness.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I'll definitely let her know. I know this is her first working dog and is eager to learn and do things right including having the safest, best equipment. During the S&R seminars she attended when the dog was much younger (before she got into the deer tracking), she had that same harness on the pup so I'm guessing the possibility of the dog getting hung up just wasn't ever discussed. Thanks again. I'm going to tell her about the WDF as well.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

When I was in SAR and also when I was hunting with terriers we would never leave them run in the woods with a harness on.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Figure this out Debbie. States like Or, Mt., Co, Wy, Wa, Id all have stricter dog hunting regs than Ca. Dogs can be used to hunt more game animals than most.
> 
> On the video. Well done but I have a question and maybe I am missing something I have asked before and never really gotten an answer. Maybe you can answer it. If a dog can track an unwounded deer, bear, lion, person, through the mountains, is there a reason that adding fresh blood to the track would make tracking harder?


It's scurf, skin cells, they're tracking. The blood is a transfer medium that concentrates the scurf on a trail. The dog isnt really tracking the blood by itself (from my training anyway.) Usually the scurf is displaced with wind or air currents along vegetation, etc. The blood holds that to a minimum. 

Yep, bow season is here too. Got a call on Friday to help come track a wounded deer but I couldnt leave from work. :roll: There will be plenty more opportunities. I use an orange canvas S&R type harness that has silver reflectors that I got from WalMart on sale and had embroidered with SEARCH DOG on them. Works beautiful. Uses velcro to connect so if indeed the dog ever gets snagged, it will release.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

The harness that I use is cape style like Howard described.


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## jim kirkendall (Jan 31, 2009)

A deer leaves the strongest scent in the wood.As a former hound man, the difficulty is keeping dogs "off" of a deer track.when I hunted hounds.. dogs that ran deer were considered a trashy dog.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Denise Gatlin said:


> It's scurf, skin cells, they're tracking. The blood is a transfer medium that concentrates the scurf on a trail. The dog isnt really tracking the blood by itself (from my training anyway.) Usually the scurf is displaced with wind or air currents along vegetation, etc. The blood holds that to a minimum.
> 
> Yep, bow season is here too. Got a call on Friday to help come track a wounded deer but I couldnt leave from work. :roll: There will be plenty more opportunities. I use an orange canvas S&R type harness that has silver reflectors that I got from WalMart on sale and had embroidered with SEARCH DOG on them. Works beautiful. Uses velcro to connect so if indeed the dog ever gets snagged, it will release.



Thanks. I'll pass it on to the owner as an option.


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