# berry 2 lamers



## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

his had so many litters now so it would be possible to notice trends in his offspring,
is he known for producing handler hard dogs or sensitive to corrections.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> his had so many litters now so it would be possible to notice trends in his offspring,
> is he known for producing handler hard dogs or sensitive to corrections.


I havent heard of anyone complaining that their Berry II offspring are too handler sensitive.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Still waiting on that video Michael!


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Hows the puppy?


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Video... 

Joined the club yet?


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Michael Murphy said:


> his had so many litters now so it would be possible to notice trends in his offspring,
> is he known for producing handler hard dogs or sensitive to corrections.


 
LOL you again. 

I had two from two different bitches, nice noses, but overall didn't like them, jut good dogs, nothing abnormal or special


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Kevin Cyr said:


> LOL you again.
> 
> I had two from two different bitches, nice noses, but overall didn't like them, jut good dogs, nothing abnormal or special


U had to know we want details. Bitches lines, were they handler sensitive and what didn't u like. Thanks in advance


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

once again, the battle for Nature vs. Nurture sends out its' scouts...


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Timothy Saunders said:


> U had to know we want details. Bitches lines, were they handler sensitive and what didn't u like. Thanks in advance


 
I didn't like them for various reasons, one being average just an overall ok/good dog, nothing any different than two ordinary backyard pet malioins bred...of which I seen some superstars. soft yes.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Catherine Gervin said:


> once again, the battle for Nature vs. Nurture sends out its' scouts...


 
as it always will, but you can never be so sure, just assume right? Unless an entire litter was given to an all male or female trainer, all lived in same climate, lifestyle, work, kids, etc. all trained in the same discipline. All ate at the same time and amount of food. It will always very and for every one has what most say are good lines and it doesn't work out, then they are a shitty trainer, handler, didn't do it right, etc. 

and those who have awesome pups from same littler did everything correct...but literally we wll never know we can only compare, contrast and assume!

I have far better things to do, give the dog away to someone who can appreciate it more right


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

i herd carlos von vos adds handler hardness and also duco 2 dogs as well.

it seems currently almost everyone is picking between duco 2 line dogs (mainly from django ) and berry 2 dogs.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Michael Murphy said:


> i herd carlos von vos adds handler hardness and also duco 2 dogs as well.
> 
> it seems currently almost everyone is picking between duco 2 line dogs (mainly from django ) and berry 2 dogs.


 
I hear a lot of things too.........

Again, whats your point? 

I thought you got the dog you wanted, show some type of video doing something with the dog instead of consistently ignoring the fact that the problem isn't the dog......and all these so called great lined dogs aren't all great in the hands of someone who doesn't know much.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

The same Carlos Suttle imported?


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Haz Othman said:


> The same Carlos Suttle imported?


I think so , yes


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Michael why did you bring this up? I can't tell if you are stating this as fact or are soliciting opinions based upon something you heard. Is there something you would like to talk about? 

BTW I heard that eventually the west coast is going to start in Nebraska.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Michael why did you bring this up? I can't tell if you are stating this as fact or are soliciting opinions based upon something you heard. Is there something you would like to talk about?
> 
> BTW I heard that eventually the west coast is going to start in Nebraska.


When did you move to Virginia? It had to be resent. ☺☺☺☺☺

Is the Atlantic going to swallow up Virginia?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Somewhat, I'll send you a PM. And kinda.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

California fell off ??????

HOLY $#!+


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Nicole Stark said:


> Michael why did you bring this up? I can't tell if you are stating this as fact or are soliciting opinions based upon something you heard. Is there something you would like to talk about?
> 
> BTW I heard that eventually the west coast is going to start in Nebraska.


i want to know if you had to pick a study (or bloodlines) to add handler hardness, dominance (as in opposite of a submissive dog) and thick nerves which would you pick? assuming you already have plenty of prey drive


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Michael Murphy said:


> i want to know if you had to pick a study (or bloodlines) to add handler hardness, dominance (as in opposite of a submissive dog) and thick nerves which would you pick? assuming you already have plenty of prey drive



As far as thickness is concerned, I'd pick you.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Ask Jeff Gamber if I recall correctly he bought Carlos from Mike.


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

Duco II is gone for many years , Django is also gone

Duco II, Django bloodlines this are not the point dogs.
( example the perfect point dogs for dutch KNPV championships}

In Holland I have seen some Jochie offspring( Duco II Django) this are not the easiest dogs to train for a handler


Last KNPV Dutch Championship there were 5 Berry II offspring ... that is something to think about.:-k


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## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Marcel Winter said:


> Duco II is gone for many years , Django is also gone
> 
> Duco II, Django bloodlines this are not the point dogs.
> ( example the perfect point dogs for dutch KNPV championships}
> ...


what makes them not easier to train?


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Michael Murphy said:


> what makes them not easier to train?


They are thick.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Marcel Winter said:


> Duco II is gone for many years , Django is also gone
> 
> Duco II, Django bloodlines this are not the point dogs.
> ( example the perfect point dogs for dutch KNPV championships}
> ...


Does a dogs trainability make it more or less a hard dog? As far as berryII offspring. Did those 5 pass there police department test to go to th streets?


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

The Berry II offspring are absolute good to manage and train
because if not this dog are not on the championships at this level.
Also the handler has a big inluence of course

( hard or soft everyone has his own opinion.)


( Max- Douwe van Groningen/Nico -Teus Middendorp/ Sita - Rich Stuurman and there are more)

This are quality dogs 

This dogs don, t work on the streets at this moment, I,m not the person
to say if this dog are suitable or not maybe the dutch police gonna buy and
test this dogs.


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

The dog from Richard Stuurman - Sita works for
the military air force at this moment if I am right.


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

Marcel Winter said:


> The dog from Richard Stuurman - Sita works for
> the military air force at this moment if I am right.


Not Sita but Sensi is the name...........


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Marcel Winter said:


> The Berry II offspring are absolute good to manage and train
> because if not this dog are not on the championships at this level.
> Also the handler has a big inluence of course
> 
> ...


 thank you


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