# Bitework Question To The Trainers



## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Hi I'm fairly new to bitework and have heard a term that I don't quite understand...what is a "jam" and how does one know from watching a dog being worked if it's been jammed? What I want to know is what does it look like to an onlooker. 
Thanks for indulging a newbie!:razz:


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Picture this, your going down the road in your car and you hit a brick wall, everything goes forward and just crunches. It's not that bad but the dog kinda folds up on impact. Does that help?


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## Lynda Myers (Jul 16, 2008)

Thank you Jerry for your response but is it truly that cut and dry? Because if that is correct then its not so uncommon.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

So what I keep wondering is that as the dog bites the sleeve, what should the decoy be TRYING to do with his body that keeps it safest for him and the dog?


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

He catches the dog as if he were catching an egg. 

He gives away from the momentum of the force that the dog is producing.

Pick one. I like the first the best, the egg one. LOL


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Thanks Jerry. I'm trying to learn the bitework from the helper perspective. The more I read here and see the posted videos, the better I am about picking up on things when watching it live [when it all seems to happen in a blink].

Terrasita


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Picture this, your going down the road in your car and you hit a brick wall, everything goes forward and just crunches. It's not that bad but the dog kinda folds up on impact. Does that help?


Jerry jam is what we put on bread or toast. K-9 jam is just like you said. When the helper stands and doesn't offer any cushion for the dog's drive into the bite. This time of year, cold or frozen suits can cause teeth to break with or without a jam.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

A good decoy( if for some reason he will not be able to catch the dog safely) has to absorb the hit EVEN if he must go down to do it. Safety for the dog should be more important to the decoy than his image or even his safety. His safety is always second to the dog's.

Then we can all laugh at him for letting a little ole dog take him down. Then we can pat him on the back and tell him what a great job he did keeping the dog safe.

Thanks to all you decoys that keep our dogs safe, thank you.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

This is what it looks like when a dog is jammed. And NO, before anyone gets all fired up I am NOT picking on the helper, I know when you catch a ton of dogs in a row at an event shit will happen even to the best of helpers. Especially when most of the dogs are strangers to the helper, so they don't know their speed, entry style, etc. 

But you can see the impact and what it can do to the spine, especially in the neck/shoulder area. Multiple this many times over the career of a dog and you can see why the dogs eventually develope arthritis and other back/neck issues.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Or look here for a career ending injury.
http://www.malinoispuppies.com/malinois_django.html


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Watch a KNVP video, they do it on purpose for some reason, here's the link 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m9R8Uh2GFg&feature=related


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I feel really gutted when a dog gets injured (just so you know where I'm coming from).

On the other hand, as soon as I enter dog sports, I put my dog at risk. If I do Agility, Avalanche, SAR competitions, Obedience, KNPV, Mondio, Schutzhûnd - you name it - the risk is there.

The risk is there for the helper / decoy too. They give their best to help us get our dogs to the top and often end up with back injuries, etc. I can't really comment on the videos, had trouble displaying them in full size and age has made my eyes grow weak:mrgreen: but it won't change my opinion.

My helper stood like a rock with his arm high and our dogs had to launch in and bite. My dog came in too quickly once and missed it - never again. At competitions / trials, the helper has to comply with the rules and catch the dogs accordingly but in training we try to teach the dog that it's "his" job to launch AND aim.

Ivan Balabanov is famous and I have no qualms about his excellent training. On the other hand, accidents can and will happen. I hope and pray my dogs will not succomb to such injuries but I will still be willing to take the risk - paradox maybe. Maybe not, If things hadn't gone as they did, due to luck, I might not be alive today, considering the risks I took, not only for myself but for my dogs.

In a nutshell I find that decoys should be "protected" - they give as much as they can and as much as their competence allows and no one worries about how they spend their lives when they have reached 50+.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

I prefer grape Howard. And on a homemade biscuit.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

I agree with what many here have posted. I would like to add one note... Communication. Especially in a Trial enviroment. If you know you have a high flying, fast, or hard impacting dog, you should be letting the decoys know (the ones that have never caught that dog). As for the decoy, I encourage communication aswell, If you know the dog, tell others about its entry. If you just got off the field, let the next decoy know what you saw. Reading the dog is crucial, measuring its speed and staying agile enough to adjust to the variables.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

jay lyda said:


> I prefer grape Howard. And on a homemade biscuit.


I always took you for the strawberry kind... :roll:


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Khoi Pham said:


> Or look here for a career ending injury.
> http://www.malinoispuppies.com/malinois_django.html


 
That was not the end of Django's career. that happened in 2000, he won the first AWMA Championships in 2003


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Ivan said his long bite was never the same after that, but I thought this happen in 05?


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Michael Santana said:


> I always took you for the strawberry kind... :roll:


Oh no. I can't help that I look juicy in red (inside joke people) but I've never liked strawberry. I prefer grape.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Khoi Pham said:


> Ivan said his long bite was never the same after that, but I thought this happen in 05?


No, it happened when django was 3. He was born in 1997. Ivan did claim he was never the same, but the dog did go on to win some big national events.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

jay lyda said:


> Oh no. I can't help that I look juicy in red (inside joke people) but I've never liked strawberry. I prefer grape.


In the northern end of the south...rumor has it that *Passion Fruit* is the call! Video at 11:00!!!=D>


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Michael Santana said:


> I agree with what many here have posted. I would like to add one note... Communication. Especially in a Trial enviroment. If you know you have a high flying, fast, or hard impacting dog, you should be letting the decoys know (the ones that have never caught that dog). As for the decoy, I encourage communication aswell, If you know the dog, tell others about its entry. If you just got off the field, let the next decoy know what you saw. Reading the dog is crucial, measuring its speed and staying agile enough to adjust to the variables.


I agree that a decoy who has experience with a certain dog should relay what he knows of the dog if it is really a dog that comes faster or harder than normal. However as a decoy myself I can tell you that if a stranger (dogs owner) tells me how fast their dog is, or how hard his attacks are I pay no attention to them. Because honestly I hear that so much from everyone and seldom do I see a dog that is really different in terms of amazing speed or harder attacks than the norm. 
In a trial nothing drives a decoy crazy faster than to have 30 different people telling him how to watch for their dogs attacks, I say let the decoy read the dog and usually things will go fine. In a big event the decoy will have enough on his mind and trust me he does not want to hear about your dog, he wants to test it.
If the dog is really something special then chances are the decoy has already seen the dog work or heard about him anyway.
Just my $.02 worth.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> Just my $.02 worth.


Mike was that before the economy got bad? LOL
Lots of claims out there and it is always good to make your own judgement. Thanks.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Quote from Mike Suttle 
I agree that a decoy who has experience with a certain dog should relay what he knows of the dog if it is really a dog that comes faster or harder than normal. However as a decoy myself I can tell you that if a stranger (dogs owner) tells me how fast their dog is, or how hard his attacks are I pay no attention to them. Because honestly I hear that so much from everyone and seldom do I see a dog that is really different in terms of amazing speed or harder attacks than the norm.
Unquote

I went to a trial with one of my colleagues. He had a good German export and just before we saddled our dogs for protection he went up to the decoy and told him what a "Kracher" he had and that it would be wise to watch out. I groaned inwardly, especially as the decoy nodded casually and went on his way.

Quite honestly, at trials,you mostly have good, licensed decoys and they are competent, usually, to be able to check out the dog as he comes into the hide, and can look into their eyes. One decoy will obviously tell the other of "perculiarities" etc. when they change over.

I never say anything. I find it's like telling your grandmother how to suck eggs.


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