# Just out of interest, how many of you



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

feel the need to have a trained PPD around you?

Is it:

1) based on the area where you live, i.e. numerous break-ins with force, brutal attacks, etc.
2) yiou have family members that you leave alone at night, unprotected (without said PPD). Area not as above. Just want to be sure, etc.

How many feel they have to have a PPD dog, trained, regardless of where they live?

How many are willing to risk their lives on their sport / whatever dogs, because they feel that these will suffice??

Thanks for honest / realistic answers. Realistic answers are obviously based on persons experiences as to what is realistic or not.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I like having a big "scary-breed" loud-barking dog who also stops barking when I say all is well. 8)

I fully get it that this is nothing more than a black mark against my house compared to other houses in a choice by a reasonably not-insane burglar. But that's all I want my dog to be.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I see this the same as you, Connie, from where I'm peeking. Thousands of miles apart but with the same view!!


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Like Connie, I have dogs that have big aggressive sounding barks and they are very forward dogs. 

Where I live there is crime, but not enough to really warrant a PPD due to ALL of the upkeep and continued training they need. 

Since I travel a lot, if I feel uncomfortable in a place (like getting fuel or a rest area).....I open a crate door and leave a window down enough so that the dog can put their head out and bark if needed. 
At night, I only stop at well lit, active places for fuel and potty breaks. 

(that and the fact that I carry a taser or firearm, and the fact that I have been "trained" to defend myself.....I feel pretty safe)


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Interesting Carol, does that mean you rely on other protectiive devices than 4-leggeds?? Not bad thinking, in my book!!


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> feel the need to have a trained PPD around you?
> 
> Is it:
> 
> ...


I live in a great neighborhood, quiet, and am low-risk. Still, I would like a PPD. Mainly it is a deterrent, however also something as a real layer of protection for my family members, for home, trips, when my wife jogs at ungodly hours in the morning before work, when I take long evening walks, etc. I am also (albeit at a beginner level) involved in martial arts and practice firearms. Will I ever need any of this? Statistically speaking, most likely no. That being said, somebody not all that far away, nice neighborhood, was robbed at gunpoint for prescription meds and probably whatever loose valuables were around, whacked in the head pretty good, and left. Not that a dog would be Superman and save the day, however there are genuine accounts of people's dogs saving their lives so it is possible. Besides, I only have to be right once for it to save my life or that of a loved one, even if it is just as a deterrent. At worst, it buys me time. At best, it saves my life.



> How many are willing to risk their lives on their sport / whatever dogs, because they feel that these will suffice??


I think it depends on the dogs. Some sport dogs are just happy to fight the sleeve, others are more dead serious. I am not opposed to sport, and think it would be fun.

The difference I see is basically two-fold.

First, a take-everywhere protection orientated dog (either true PPD or a SchH/Mondio/Ringsport dog that you had as a shadow-type dog that would bite a bad guy) is probably going to be different than a dog you want specifically for titling and getting max points, or a more territorial stay-at-home guard dog. There is some difference between them as I understand it.

Second, there are some different training tactics as I understand it. On the field, it's perfectly acceptable for your dog to take out the guy waving a stick and yelling at you as they run toward you from around a corner/blind/whatever. In real life, it might be a guy catching a taxi or flagging down the bus or his girlfriend. You probably want (and train for) a different reaction. In a car jacking, likely the guy's going to come to the driver side, and presumably NOT right at the dog. So you might train for that scenario as well. It's not all different, however there are some, just like there are differences between SchH, PSA, and the Ring Sports. However, there seems to also be some crossover, and it depends on what the protection needs are.

I see it as pragmatic. If I am going to train a dog for bitework, why not gear it towards a potential practical need? If I never need it, so be it. If I do, then having the right dog and the most applicable training didn't hurt anything, did it? I am not ultra-paranoid, but I do try to maintain some awareness of who's around me, avoid being a prick to people, and avoid going to places that seem like obvious sources of getting mugged or whatever.

-Cheers


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I feel no need for a PP dog at all. Matter of fact, I would rather my dogs not do anything at all.

I do sport because it is hard.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I only need a dog that will bark. I'm a heavier sleeper than I used to be, but Smith & Wesson can handle the rest.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I personally don't feel any burning need to have a PPD. I do have a couple of dogs that I know will bite if needed, but IMO if someone really wants to get past a dog they will, and with my lifestyle, where I live, where I go, etc the chances of the dogs biting the wrong person are higher then them actually biting a "right person" so it's not something I try to build in the dogs. I've had PPDs in the past, and they never had to do anything more then walk alertly at my side, my "sport dogs" will do that. So it's a balance of liablity vs need.

There is some petty crime, and on occasion not so petty crime (someone was killed not to far from my house) in my area, but the not so petty crime was specifically aimed at the victim, it wasn't some random drive by. 

As far as protecting the house goes, I'd rather they don't. I think they would, but if someone were to break into the house when we weren't home I'd actually rather the dogs just leave them alone while they take the TV. I have homeowners insurance that will cover any damage or theft of property, but I think I'd have a really hard time convincing them to pay for the dog(s) the thief killed, or who left through an open door after the theft and was hit by a car. Not to mention the personal loss. And if someone breaks into my house, with my Malinois all freaking out, they are prepared to take out the dogs if needed.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I feel no need for a PP dog at all. Matter of fact, I would rather my dogs not do anything at all.
> 
> I do sport because it is hard.


I don't need a PP dog either. I just need a dog to wake me up in time to grab the Makarov.

I do Schutzhund because it is hard. Any pussy can train a ring dog, that gets to bite anywhere ;-0


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I don't need a PPD...I just want a dog that barks. My hearing sucks and I like to know if someone is slinking around, but no, I don't need a dog to protect me...that's what I have a 9mm for. My neighborhood has had some bouts with home-invasions, so I like to answer the door with the dog as a deterrent for anyone I don't know...it's usually more than enough to have a barking dog behind a screen door to make most people leave...except the Kirby vacuum guy, who decided to try to pull my screen door open...with my dog on the other side of it barking at him...some people just aren't very bright. The point is THEY don't know that the dog is friendly (or not) and for me that's enough to be happy to stay on the other side of the door.


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## xxxxxxxxKarina Scuckyte (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't really need a PPD or a Guard dog. Neighborhood is quite calm, there are some burglaries, mostly done by teens, any barking dog is enough for them. With my Caucasian we don't even lock our door. We don't own any serious weapons and we don't see any need in it. Well, I feel better when my dog is around me at late walks and in the town at night too. But on the other hand I am there only because of my dogs. Training, walking or something like that. I'm feeling not that good with my GSD, because I doubt she could protect me. Caucasian is another deal, he is a matured, tested male. He's completely enough for me at any situation. And the GSD is for sport. I'll see, what will she become.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I agree with Connie, I think having large dogs may be a deterent in that, if our neighborhood is being cased by bad guys for possible houses to break into, they might bypass ours which has dogs with very loud barks that will wake up the entire neighborhood, for one of the many houses with no dogs or no loud dogs.

As far as when I am not at home but am in the car, pretty much the same thing, I am less of a car jacking target with my large and loud dogs in the car as the car next to me with no big loud dog.

But that is as far as it goes, and as far as I would ever want it to go. My dog cannot stop a bullet or a knife. I know there are those who will suggest a PPD serves as another layer, allows additional time to get away. But I cannot live me life in fear of things that go bump in the night (or the day). It is my job to protect my dog, not the other way around.

There are those who have a legitimate need I guess. Not for me though.


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## Rachel Schumacher (Oct 11, 2006)

In Switzerland, Germany and probably a few more European countries PPD training is illegal. Police dogs do get the training. Less than a couple of years ago I had the opportunity to do this training due to protection work with my dogs. I declined and I am also not sure if it was illegal back then. 
I personally don't need to have a PPD. I am relieved to have two Mals living with as we had a few break-ins. But during the time the break-ins happened I had a few weird phone calls. Looked to me someone was checking if the chick with the Mals is in or not.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I have no need for a PPD. As many others have stated all I want is a dog that is a visual deterrent that will bark. I have enough firearms and other means of self defense in my home that I am not concerned. Even considering someone I know was nearly killed when he was attacked by a maniac wielding an axe not 3 miles from my house last week. The attacker is still at large and could be anywhere. Hell he could be hiding in the brush behind my house for all I know. 

I'd rather shoot him than risk him hurting my dog.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I have two GSDs and a JRT. All three are great alert dogs. All are able and willing to give a strong threat display in car or house. I don't view any of them as PPDs.
Even without any dog, great CC laws and a right to legally defend my property with deadly force is more then enough for me.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I don't need a PPD and I don't want to deal with the legal nightmare of dog bite I have insurance and a deterrent.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

my philosophy is, if there's a person who's willing to take the chance of walking into a house w/large bad-ass sounding dogs in order to steal stuff, well, i'm not gonna lock the doors so they can destroy them as well.

i just hope they'll leave me the dogs, lol.

seriously, a "professional" thief told me once (and i believe it, BTW) that a lock only keeps an honest person out; if someone REALLY wants to get in somewhere, there will be a way to do it.

that said, if i lived in town, i would still lock the house. but i don't (live in town). and no, don't everyone come running over for the garage sale


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## Rory De Hindeberg (Aug 24, 2009)

I think anyone can say that they don't need a personal protection dog untill the day, god forrbid, when they do. And as many of you have pointed out you have the security of the dog being a deterent, which will most probably prevent the majority of assailants. I just feel that I would hate the day to come that I wasn't home and my dogs failed to protect my fammily and children. 

Bad things happen to good people everyday. 

I do train my dogs to be protective. And for real situations. I practice martial arts four days a week. Being prepared for bad times means I can enjoy the good. 

Be Safe,
R.


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## fred karlsson (Mar 18, 2009)

Would not like to live without my PPD, if I need it? Who knows.

He would problably give me enough time to call 112.


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## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

I think a PPD is nice to have but a large barking dog probably does the job as well (in "normal" areas). It's just like gun - isn't it nice to know you have one available? Sure. But do you need it? Probably not. But who knows.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

I have had a few executive level PPD and some ex-police dogs. We started bringing in these high caliber dogs and training with them after a incident involving my wife. We built our home and years later a construction worker decided he was going to try to sneak attack my wife when she was in the yard working. He had grab my wife from behind and she yelled. Thankful that my dog was laying deep in the bushes and was in a down stay position in the shade. When he did that my dog reacted thank god and engaged the man and locked on to his upper arm pit area and held him there. until my wife gave him the out command. Off course I was at work when this went down and had to leave work. It was a touchy issue but we still have our dog which has been retired out and my wife is fine and he was left with the police. Thats why every home needs at lease one if not more than one real dogs, because not everybody is willing to shoot somebody at least not my wife.


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## Julia Norton VMD (Sep 11, 2008)

We live in a very safe neighborhood so primarily I like the visual deterrant esp when kids are home alone. My show line rottie put on a heck of a visual when I approached the back door one night. Got locked out. Teen daughter home alone. I think most would think twice about trying to enter. However I had a male rottie in vet school and depended on him as an escort service. Horrible neighborhood. He was super friendly but showed tremendous backbone in all situations. He would go into stare down mode if someone approached me at night when walking home. Currently the protection question is a big one for me w my job. Inner city practice about 4 blocks from the Badlands area. I take my rottie for visual deterrant but she is getting older. Not sure what I'll replace her with since I want something w a little backbone. Bought a working line shepherd(the one the tail chasing issue) and she would run from a 13 yr girl(and does). How sad.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Years ago I had a couple of gsds raised from puppies, whilst they were primarily companions, they were there largely to enhance my sense of security. My hubby and I used to run a plant/contracting business from our property, we had a garden and in the extension of this garden was the office and yard, semi rural and fenced only on three sides.

I was alone at night on occasion, and did experience from time to time, uninvited visitors. My dogs did not receive formal bite or protection training we just learned together as we went along if you like, what I did have though was very good off leash ob, control and understanding of my dogs.

The fencing on three sides only allowed all visitors to know that the dogs were never contained here, they were trained to only go so far from the property, they were loose when I was out and about, we actually developed ourselves quite a technique. I would deal face to face with the guest(s), and my dog(s) would keep behind or to the side of them, we always worked as a team. My dogs got a lot of experience with many different kinds of people and at different times of the day and night as they were always off leash, and were able to get up close and personal with all sorts, I think this develops a certain discernment.

My dogs did get a couple of live bites, but only with permission, (that could be permission through my tone and body language), I felt safe with them and they were always under control but I couldn't for the life of me, tell you how I trained them.

The police on an operation locally actually deployed my dogs (unofficially), to help round up and evict some troublesome travellers which was very successful. It was after this whole experience I got interested in formal dog training.... I'm still quite confused, it was easier when you acted/trained on instinct ....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I have had a few executive level PPD and some ex-police dogs. We started bringing in these high caliber dogs and training with them after a incident involving my wife. We built our home and years later a construction worker decided he was going to try to sneak attack my wife when she was in the yard working. He had grab my wife from behind and she yelled. Thankful that my dog was laying deep in the bushes and was in a down stay position in the shade. When he did that my dog reacted thank god and engaged the man and locked on to his upper arm pit area and held him there. until my wife gave him the out command. Off course I was at work when this went down and had to leave work. It was a touchy issue but we still have our dog which has been retired out and my wife is fine and he was left with the police. Thats why every home needs at lease one if not more than one real dogs, because not everybody is willing to shoot somebody at least not my wife.

Got a police report ?? Always interesting to see what is written.

Quote: 
My dogs did get a couple of live bites, but only with permission, (that could be permission through my tone and body language), I felt safe with them and they were always under control but I couldn't for the life of me, tell you how I trained them.

So, your dogs went and bit someone with magic training ?? Sounds like your dogs were uncontrolled asswads.

These threads always bring the nutters to light.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

No Jeff, they were not uncontrolled, at any time!

They got a bite without an overt command from me - which is quite important! 

I never sustained a full on attack on my person, but getting the dog in there first on a bite, to all intents and purposes was of the dogs' own volition - makes the difference to a potential outcome. (I didn't set the dog on them, I called it off)!

Maybe you're not understanding what I'm trying to say - or maybe you do, and are just having a little fun. Anyways, I'm actually interested in what you have to say about it if anything, I'm still learning.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Maggie are you saying the police came and borrowed your untrained dogs to attack travellers? Sounds like one hell of a lawsuit.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Yep they did!

Only after the event did I realise that if my dogs had bitten and pulled them down which very nearly happened, my dogs could have been destroyed for the priviledge!

Fortunately it didn't happen that way, in addition it was of great benefit to me that these people were removed hence my compliance with this whole request. It was an unusual situation.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Sorry, I live in a different culture. I don't want my dogs just randomly biting people. In fact, I would prefer that they were just rediculously friendly dogs that "get" what I am doing.

My dogs when I get angry tend to go the other way, which is fine with me. I don't have that problem, I don't walk around and get threatened and people usually want to know what kind of dogs they are, and why the little one is ignoring them.

I am good with that.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sorry, I live in a different culture. I don't want my dogs just randomly biting people. In fact, I would prefer that they were just rediculously friendly dogs that "get" what I am doing.
> 
> My dogs when I get angry tend to go the other way, which is fine with me. I don't have that problem, I don't walk around and get threatened and people usually want to know what kind of dogs they are, and why the little one is ignoring them.
> 
> I am good with that.


 
Piss Off Jeff, that's a cop out. If you're going to have a go at someone, then have some value to add!

It's not about getting angry, it's about being vulnerable. I did not choose that situation... it is life! I chose only to share that on this forum, it is not my life now, it was life experience of which I will add, I've had quite a lot of.

I've NEVER had a dog bite randomly, at least not since my first gsd more than twenty years ago, he was good at that!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Maggie are you saying the police came and borrowed your untrained dogs to attack travellers?





maggie fraser said:


> Yep they did! ... Only after the event did I realise that if my dogs had bitten and pulled them down which very nearly happened, my dogs could have been destroyed for the priviledge! ... Fortunately it didn't happen that way, in addition it was of great benefit to me that these people were removed hence my compliance with this whole request. It was an unusual situation.


*WHAT?!?!* Are you talking about real police? People who are part of a governmental department charged with law enforcement? Or is there something else where you live that might be _called_ police?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> No Jeff, they were not uncontrolled, at any time! ... They got a bite without an overt command from me - which is quite important! ... getting the dog in there first on a bite, to all intents and purposes was of the dogs' own volition - . (I didn't set the dog on them, I called it off)!


How does this not equal uncontrolled dogs?


There has to be something left out here ..... I'm not trying to ridicule you; I'm just wondering if there is a critical chunk missing from the post. :neutral:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> How does this not equal uncontrolled dogs?
> 
> 
> There has to be something left out here .....


How?

Tone and body language = command

Perception of the receiver = dog made it's own decision to bite

Dog instantly called off by me

Unspoken Statement = my dog is very ready to bite/fight you should you come any closer or pose any more of a threat.

I,m aware it's not very conventional, but it was a system I had worked out. I'd get people coming around looking to maybe steal stuff like plant and machinery, it was quite scary and the dogs pickup on these vibes. If you're just one wee woman some folks think they can intimidate, it can make you more proactive.

The dogs were very controlled! They did it exactly right!

I will add, it didn't happen often at all only a couple of times but when it did, it happened with consent and only then - I just didn't want folks to hear me telling my dogs to take a bite out of them, that would have made me the first aggressor!

You have to understand, I was in my home, alone and with no neighbours.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> *WHAT?!?!* Are you talking about real police? People who are part of a governmental department charged with law enforcement? Or is there something else where you live that might be _called_ police?


Yes, what a strange response!

My house was situated at the top of a field which could be and was an attempted exit for these people to make their own way out. If you're trying to rubbish my story Connie, go ahead, knock yourself out, shit happens in life! Not all of it official!!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> Yes, what a strange response! .... If you're trying to rubbish my story Connie, go ahead ...


A "strange response"? 

That response was based on my hope that actual law enforcement officers did not really come and borrow a civilian's untrained dogs to attack travelers. Nothing to do with "rubbishing your story." "Rubbishing" LE that would do this, maybe .... :-o


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I guess my worldview is more limited than I knew.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I guess my worldview is more limited than I knew.


Probably not.

If the dogs were able to be sent by a raised eyebrow or some overt signal...I love it when people say overt/covert/tactical...then they most likely weren't the type of dogs that could be transferred to a stranger to do anything.

But, maybe it's true...


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

They didn't come and knock on the door and say.... please can we borrow your dogs?

Wiith the commotion (and on a Sunday morning), we were outside with the dogs and found ourselves in a situation. The travellers were trying to evade the escorted route given by the police and they had insufficient force to prevent them coming out by my place. This was where the request for the dogs came in.... 

Q 'Will your dogs bite?"

A "One will, the other maybe"

That was kind of how it went, the younger dog did most of the running and blocking but when he was faced up, (many of these travellers are experienced with dogs), he stopped in his tracks and didn't bite, the other dog was kept much closer.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Probably not.
> 
> *If the dogs were able to be sent by a raised eyebrow or some overt signal...I love it when people say overt/covert/tactical...then they most likely weren't the type of dogs that could be transferred to a stranger to do anything.*
> 
> But, maybe it's true...


You're probably very correct there, those dogs were of use to me and probably nobody else.... I take it that is your point here? I wasn't training them for anyone else, it was unique, informal, unconventional, call it what you like.... it wasn't an exercise in training as such. I was just sharing my experience!

And if you really love that so much.... I question how much you know about dogs, and I'm not talking formal training. When you live and work with a dog 24/7 where there is no drill, they get to know you inside out, and you them.... effective communication can be very subtle. That is my experience.

I feel I'm really having to defend myself here, I don't profess to know anything like the majority of folks on here... I'm just sharing my experience and am beginning to wish I hadn't


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

You have to understand, I was in my home, alone and with no neighbours.[/quote]


Come on this is bull, you cant fit yourself and more than one dog in a card board box. You cant BS around me ill catch it every time


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> And if you really love that so much.... I question how much you know about dogs, and I'm not talking formal training. When you live and work with a dog 24/7 where there is no drill, they get to know you inside out, and you them.... effective communication can be very subtle. That is my experience.


I don't really do anything formal and I've never stated otherwise. I have been 24/7 literally with my last 2 dogs and you have a point there but I wouldn't call it subtle. That is my experience.

Like I said before, your story could be true.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

This was years ago and I'm not feeding into a pissing match, sorry just don't have time for it. The man admitted to wrong doings and I don't believe the cops wanted to do the paperwork, so end of story. I was simply telling a moment when we swap over to real dogs and not your sporty dogs amd the reason why. Basically describing why we made the decisions that we did. Also why we have completely change our training techniques and the people we train with.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm not up on the intents of criminals but I assume that they check out the houses they want to burgle first and don't just go blundering through the front / back door on the off chance.

My dogs give me the "feeling" of security when I'm home alone but I also let down the heavy metal blinds on the windows at ground level, which can't easily be lifted, lock the doors and that's it. Most of my dogs have been and are protective of their home even though they've never been tested, thank God, or I wouldn't be able to tap out this message maybe! They are not "Protection Dogs" just normal dogs that would provide good deterrent at the best. 

BTW, as far as I know, it is not illegal to own a trained "Protection Dog" privately here in Switzerland. I know of at least one person who trains them for police, security firms and, private persons. It's by no means widespread though.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> You have to understand, I was in my home, alone and with no neighbours.


 
Come on this is bull, you cant fit yourself and more than one dog in a card board box. You cant BS around me ill catch it every time [/quote]

....a little more for you then, as well as the two gsds there were two jrts in this same box AND a feral cat, ever heard a feral cat growl before? No doubt, someone will probably be along shortly to tell me just how feral cats don't growl!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I was simply telling a moment when we swap over to real dogs and not your sporty dogs amd the reason why.

What are sporty dogs ?? I have known many many many personal protection dogs over the years and the vast majority are bullshit. Most make some noise and that is it.

I know you have time, as you have responded twice so far, so I cry bullshit.

Besides, "I'm not feeding into a pissing match," yet you use the word sporty in a derogatory manner. Sure you're not. LOL


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## Rory De Hindeberg (Aug 24, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> 
> What are sporty dogs ?? I have known many many many personal protection dogs over the years and the vast majority are bullshit. Most make some noise and that is it.
> 
> ...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok Rory de hindenburg. Lets talk about the flaming dogs of PP, and the huge crash when actual NEED, and events occur.

Lets talk about the tools that own these dogs. Like this statement for example.

Quote: The man admitted to wrong doings and I don't believe the cops wanted to do the paperwork.

If there was a call there was a record. So find that record and lets see how true this story is.

Next, show us your dog working on a video. THis melts most of you PP people away, as you know we will be laughing at you. Every PPD is great on the internet.......as long as there is no video.

So COME ON lets see these amazing dogs.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I'm still puzzled over the police "borrowing" someones untrained dogs. Sure, I've heard rumors of "Wino Joe" over the years, but borrowing someones untrained dogs is a new one on this old canine cop. 

DFrost


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## Andrew Rowley (Nov 3, 2008)

Hi, i got my dog because of concern for myself and the Mrs. we are both ex prison officers, she is now a criminal defence solicitor specialising in mental health and i work nightclub security and for the NHS. I have had to move house before due to security concerns.
While my dog trains in schutzhund i also do ppd training with him, have got him and myself certified by a brit organisation called NASDU. I enjoy schut but i do this to challange myself as a trainer and to ensure i aim for good ob etc with my dog. 

He has under the most bizzare circumstances had a real bite. The police where involved and were very impressed with a demsotration from the dog, and showing that he was under controll and bit under instruction along with the schut background and Nasdu paperwork ensured he was not seized as a dangerous dog. that said the worry of the dog being taken and destroyed or myself being charged was terrible. 

You have to remeber in the UK it is rare to own firearms (farmers only, all hand guns are banned), the criminals have the guns. Even a weapon in the house can land you in trouble if considered an offensive weapon. So when you step out your front door you can not carry anything with the premenditation of a weapon even in self defence ( a tazer or mace will get you 5 years!!, even a kubotan on you keys). this though has led to a rise in gangs etc using dogs as weapons to robb people. the concern i now have is that if i am targeted my dog will be neutralised by other dogs!


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Andrew Rowley said:


> Hi, i got my dog because of concern for myself and the Mrs. we are both ex prison officers, she is now a criminal defence solicitor specialising in mental health and i work nightclub security and for the NHS. I have had to move house before due to security concerns.
> While my dog trains in schutzhund i also do ppd training with him, have got him and myself certified by a brit organisation called NASDU. I enjoy schut but i do this to challange myself as a trainer and to ensure i aim for good ob etc with my dog.
> 
> He has under the most bizzare circumstances had a real bite. The police where involved and were very impressed with a demsotration from the dog, and showing that he was under controll and bit under instruction along with the schut background and Nasdu paperwork ensured he was not seized as a dangerous dog. that said the worry of the dog being taken and destroyed or myself being charged was terrible.
> ...


Isn't liberalism great! LOL :-\"


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Isn't liberalism great! LOL :-\"


Liberalism?


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

I have a dog for fun and companionship.

I have a gun for safety
ccw 24/7


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