# Little wood



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

In MR we have this exersize kinda like AKC where the dog has to go out and find a dowel. It is stupid and pointless and I hate it.

So maybe we can discuss some training instead of ducks F%c*[email protected] in the park and all the other incredibly stupid nonsense that some of you have been coming up with.

WORKING DOG FORUM, not look skippy jumped today forum. [Edited Per Rule #8]


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jeff, Jeff.... Your momma never told you "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"? :grin:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff stop acting like a jerk. If you don't like the topic of conversation, don't participate! I am wondering if the title of this thread is a Freudian slip? 

Quick Connie, get the e-collar.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Jeff stop acting like a jerk. If you don't like the topic of conversation, don't participate! I am wondering if the title of this thread is a Freudian slip?
> 
> Quick Connie, get the e-collar.


Now that's funny right there.

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> .... If you don't like the topic of conversation, don't participate!.....


Exactly.

And when you start your own forum, you can moderate it however you like.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> In MR we have this exersize kinda like AKC where the dog has to go out and find a dowel.


How are you doing with training it?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Is the dowel mixed in with other dowels/articles or by itself?
Is the dog looking for human scent on the dowel? Yours or others?
How large is the area of search?


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Whoa... This got turned around quick. Nice moderation! I didn't know that about Mondio. I am curious about the excercise also Bob. Is it human scent that they are looking for, or just a wooden dowel?... Do tell Jeff.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I think he is referring to the Search for an object exercise:

The 15cm long and 2 cm in diameter pieces of wood are numbered. Handlers each take a numbered piece of wood and place it in their pocket without showing it to his dog and tells the judge his number. All handlers carry the wood in the pocket for the same amount of time. The handler then places the piece of wood, in view of the dog, 30 meters out in a ficticious square 1m x 1m. While the handler returns to his dog, other pieces of wood (not numbered but identical to the one placed by handler - minus handlers scent) are placed by the numbered piece of wood. (3 objects for II - 4 for the III). The handler then gives his dog a voice command of search and bring. Handlers allowed to let the dog sniff his hand before he gives command.


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

Here is the link to the rules. I've always heard it called little wood too, I don't know why. I'm guessing that might be the literal translation? 
http://www.usmondioring.org/usmramondioringrules.html#searchforobject


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That's very similar to AKC Utility scent work. The only differences are the different distance and the AKC team has their back turned when the judge places all the articles, including the scented one, in a small area in the ring. 
If the dog truly understands scent work, the other articles are a moot point. 
A good dog (mine :smile: ) will find a stick in a brush pile if it has scent on it, and ignore all other sticks.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

Nevermind. Go back to whatever it was you were doing badly.

*[MOD EDIT: You of all people should know not to ask for an opinion here if you don't want feedback. -WT]*


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
> 
> Nevermind. Go back to whatever it was you were doing badly.


Awwww, come on Jeff, it seems you wanted to discuss this topic since you brought it up and now you won't. What's up with that?  
Seems an interesting topic to discuss and find out how others are training it......


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

So sad, everyone else is so wrong, huh.


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

So it wasn't a legitimate question?... Just a jab? That's too bad... I was actually really interested. Gosh, I guess I'll go back to doing something badly.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> So sad, everyone else is so wrong, huh.


Susan, 
I always wondered how I ever got three of my dogs certified for trailing, human remains detection and air scent work when I am such an ignorant trainer. :smile: 

Not trying to start an argument, but sometimes I get really frustrated at people making comments that put us all down. ](*,)
And it is just one of those days today where I cannot refrain from commenting.....yikes


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Carol~
Just carry on with failing miserably, take a deep breath, count to ten, and it will be okay. Or, you could just ram your head against the wall...](*,) and once the swelling goes down and the pain goes away you will have forgotten how others bring you down.:smile: Try and have a better day.


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## Dan Reiter (May 12, 2006)

Qoute: So maybe we can discuss some training instead of ducks F%c*[email protected] in the park and all the other incredibly stupid nonsense that some of you have been coming up with.

Qoute: Nevermind. Go back to whatever it was you were doing badly


Sounds like "Bullwinkle" Mr. Know It All to me.

I have heard enough I quess internet discussion is not possible for some.


Last Post

Dan Reiter


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Justin Eimer said:


> Carol~
> Just carry on with failing miserably, take a deep breath, count to ten, and it will be okay. Or, you could just ram your head against the wall...](*,) and once the swelling goes down and the pain goes away you will have forgotten how others bring you down.:smile: Try and have a better day.


I will do that. Thanks.....:smile:


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Dan Reiter said:


> Qoute: So maybe we can discuss some training instead of ducks F%c*[email protected] in the park and all the other incredibly stupid nonsense that some of you have been coming up with.
> 
> Qoute: Nevermind. Go back to whatever it was you were doing badly
> 
> ...


*[MOD EDIT: Keep up the sniping, Justin, and you're done here. No one asked you. Trust me when I say you have a great habit of looking for trouble here. I am your huckleberry.-WT]*


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> That's very similar to AKC Utility scent work. The only differences are the different distance and the AKC team has their back turned when the judge places all the articles, including the scented one, in a small area in the ring.
> If the dog truly understands scent work, the other articles are a moot point.
> A good dog (mine :smile: ) will find a stick in a brush pile if it has scent on it, and ignore all other sticks.


doesn't UD have various types of articles, ie, metal, wood, leather for the scent discrimination work? i would think the hardest part about training this would be having articles that are NOT contaminated w/your scent. how do you do this? gloves? but does that work?

just as well stay OT here...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

ann freier said:


> i would think the hardest part about training this would be having articles that are NOT contaminated w/your scent. how do you do this? gloves? but does that work?
> 
> ..


I wanna know this too.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I always kept all the articles in a very open mesh sack AFTER all were washed. Handle them with hot dog/salad/etc tongs.
When you get to the ring, the judge (usually) places his clip board on a table/chair and all the articles are put on top of the clip board. ALL handling is done with the hot dog tongs. They are all numbered and the judge will tell you which number to take and scent. HE will place the others on the floor, return to you and YOU place the scented one on his clip board. While your (and your dogs) back is turned, he places the scented article among the uncented ones. At the judges command, you turn and send the dog.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Tips on scenting; 
Give the dog's nose credit! Most rub the crap out of the article to "heat" it up and really transfer scent. I've seen many folks with their hands in their arm pits, trying to "load up". As close as the judge puts these articles on the floor, IMHO, if you try and load up scent on that one article it will spread and cover the uncented articles. This can be confusing to some dogs because many AKC trials are indoors and the scent will "pool" in the general area.
The judge often will put the articles in a circle and the scented one in the middle. MANY dogs will work the outside of the circle and never step into the center. Proof for that!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks, Bob!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I don't know much about sport or AKC, but I do know scent. When we train with a scent we also handle things with rubber gloves so as not to contaminate one odor with another, or human odor for that matter. One of the best containers to keep something in so it does not cross contaminate is; new metal pain cans. When taught properly still smell everything that's present, but they do discriminate and attend to, only those odors that are reinforced.
Personally, I think scent discrimination is one of the most interesting aspects of dog training.

DFrost


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

David Frost said:


> One of the best containers to keep something in so it does not cross contaminate is; new metal pain cans.
> DFrost


I've heard of you guys whipping outa big ole' can of whupass, but I never knew it had a daddy! :-o 

I'm sorry David I just had to say it!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Really wasn't sure what I would get, but I figured if I put a little spin, and named another forum I would get some interest. And three pages LOL

A buddy and I were discussing human behavior and he contends that people do not just "go along" I argue that they are basically a lot like pack/prey animals and are easily manipulated into responding with certain predictable behaviors.

So, because I am basically evil, I told him that I would make a post and then told him how different people would respond.

*[MOD EDIT: It's funny, these things you post. Thinking that you're not about to take a trip to the Cat Fancy boards.-WT]*

I like to break it into two parts. The first part is basically like an incomplete send away. I lwill leave the dog or hold the puppy and walk out and place a dowel in the grass. I don't want to stay at short distances for very long, but I am not making it real hard to find at this point. One of the things I am looking for is the distance that the pup or dog stops using his eyes and starts using his nose. This is important with the Mals, as once you teach these little autistic weasels one way of doing things, slightly adjusting to something different is difficult.

The second part of this is to take a board and wire dowels in a random pattern to one side. I use this to show the dog that the only dowel that I want is the one I put there and it has my scent on it. It works well because there is no reward for incorrect behavior, like bringing the wrong dowel.

I like this combination of techniques, as there are less chances for mistakes and the end result is good.

*[MOD EDIT]*


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I've heard of you guys whipping outa big ole' can of whupass, but I never knew it had a daddy! :-o
> 
> I'm sorry David I just had to say it!!!


Good granny grunt. See what a little ole' missing "T" does to a whole sentence. ha ha.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Good granny grunt. See what a little ole' missing "T" does to a whole sentence. ha ha.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nice catch, Sue. :lol:


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> 
> Nice catch, Sue. :lol:


WAY nice! woody, would it help you blow off steam if you banned me? i'll take one for the team if i have to: i have an 18 yr old boy (NOT dog) who wants to constantly challenge me for alpha, and after we've had a go-round, i'll take on anyone here and kick their behind.

and, if anyone wants a good kid, i might even buy his ticket out


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You say he is 18???? I do need a decoy........


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

ann freier said:


> WAY nice! woody, would it help you blow off steam if you banned me? i'll take one for the team if i have to: i have an 18 yr old boy (NOT dog) who wants to constantly challenge me for alpha, and after we've had a go-round, i'll take on anyone here and kick their behind.
> 
> and, if anyone wants a good kid, i might even buy his ticket out


Easy solution. Tell him that you will make a pass at him in front of his friends if he doesn't knock it off.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

how 'bout i make a pass at his girlfriend in front of god and everybody?? that would get him going...

and jeff--he really might be interested in doing some decoy work (and i think may be fairly good for a beginner)--but only if I don't suggest it. 

he certainly plays with the dog here--football, "revier", ummm, "revier" plus "chase me til i catch you"...he could come out to CO, you could teach him about bartending (for a living) , decoying (so he can take a beating 'cause he's so tough, and you're too old), and, i might or might not come out to visit!!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

ann freier said:


> and, i might or might not come out to visit!!!


Just remember -- don't try to go in disguise, because "you can never get all the dog fur off."

A famous bartender said that.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Just remember -- don't try to go in disguise, because "you can never get all the dog fur off."
> 
> A famous bartender said that.


ya know, i remember that....but if jeff gets jesse to work for him, the dog fur just helps the helper do mind-games. 

AND, if jesse's out there w/the "dog" (ie, brix), fur on HIM, jeff'll never be able to tell the dif--unless jesse tells, in which case, he'll have to pay up big time, to his mom. 

simple. he doesn't want to go there


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"Pain cans" YIKES!!
When I was with SAR we always used surplus ammo cans,


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Lacey Vessell said:


> The handler then places the piece of wood, in view of the dog, 30 meters out in a ficticious square 1m x 1m.


Just wanted to point out "in view of the dog" means the HANDLER is in view of the dog while they are placing the wood. The wood isn't neccessarily in view of the dog. I've seen handlers have to place the wood behind a canoe (dog could see the handler, but not what they were doing), at a recent trial the wood was placed into a fake fire pit, etc. So the first part of the exercise is the dog finding the location of the wood. The second part is the scent discrimination to select the correct wood.

At 30 meters (just over 100 feet) the first part of the exercise can be difficult enough for the dog. I've seen more dogs fail the exercise because they never found the spot the wood was placed, than because they couldn't select the correct one once they got to the spot.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

wouldn't a person train this like a "revier"? a "go find" type of command, don't stop til you "find"?

and could it be built off of "revier"? i might just try it when cait gets home: should i use a different command tho? brix loves the revier game--and he's good at it....

will it adversely affect his tracking though? when we're just out playing fetch in the pasture, he uses sight/air/nose-to-ground to find the item we've tossed into tall grass. hmmm...sounds like a fun excercise to teach the little (!) booger...


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