# Do you correct a puppy that growls when eating ?



## Colin Chin

Hi,
Would like to know whether you all have expeienced with working pup that growls while eating his or her meal if you touch/stroke him or her ? If yes, do you correct this habit ? Pup as in 9 weeks old. Thanks.

Colin


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## Gerry Grimwood

Just let him/her eat and you wont have any problems. You might be causing problems in the future if you keep this up.

Why would you want to do this anyway ??


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle

My guy did that around that age. I started brushing him while eating. He doesn't do it to me anymore but I wouldnt let anyone else go near his food when eating. Not worth the risk. I am also new to training any kind of working dog so take the advice of the pros.


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## Colin Chin

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Just let him/her eat and you wont have any problems. You might be causing problems in the future if you keep this up.
> 
> Why would you want to do this anyway ??


Hi Gerry,
I did that on the advice of some guys. Reason is to establish pack order. I am not sure about this practice but I know a lot of owners have done that and told me that your own dog must not growl at the owner. This is the first encounter that the pup growls as she was chewing her pork ribs as part of her raw diet. I started to give her pork ribs a week back. 

Gerry, what are the problems that I might get into if I continue to do it ?Please advice. Thanks.

Colin


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## Colin Chin

Lloyd Christmas said:


> My guy did that around that age. I started brushing him while eating. He doesn't do it to me anymore but I wouldnt let anyone else go near his food when eating. Not worth the risk. I am also new to training any kind of working dog so take the advice of the pros.


Hi Lloyd,
Nice to hear from someone who's into working dog training as well. A lot of good guys with good advice here. That's why I hang on hard in this forum. Cheers.

Colin


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Don't touch your dog when he is eating. There is no pack order being established, you are just making problems that first time owners many times do.

Where this originally came from, I don't know, but all of my food aggro cases when I trained commercially came from this idea of messing with a dogs food.


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## Chip Ditto

Colin Chin said:


> Hi,
> Would like to know whether you all have expeienced with working pup that growls while eating his or her meal if you touch/stroke him or her ? If yes, do you correct this habit ? Pup as in 9 weeks old. Thanks.
> 
> Colin


In my opinion, it is best when dealing with a little puppy to try to avoid most situations that would constitute corrections . I personally feel that this time in a dogs life ,it is crutial to build as much confidence as possible. Another example would be jumping up on people who dont want to jumped up on. The solution, keep the puppy away from them all together. Chewing on the rug in the bathroom, put the rug up or keep them out of the bathroom. JMHO


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## steve davis

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Don't touch your dog when he is eating. There is no pack order being established, you are just making problems that first time owners many times do.
> 
> Where this originally came from, I don't know, but all of my food aggro cases when I trained commercially came from this idea of messing with a dogs food.


 
couldnt agree more jeff..my GSD did this when he was a pup. i snatched his food up and hand fed him for the next week. havent had any problems since. 

every once in a while ill make him work for food just to re-assure him that it is MY food and im allowing him to eat it. i do this with both my dogs but my GSP has no food aggression what so ever, dog or human but then again i hand fed him for 2 weeks when i brought the little bastard home. not to mention, i've got my 2 year old daughter hand feeding them both now too...


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## Carol Boche

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Don't touch your dog when he is eating. There is no pack order being established, you are just making problems that first time owners many times do.
> 
> Where this originally came from, I don't know, but all of my food aggro cases when I trained commercially came from this idea of messing with a dogs food.


While I tend to agree with this, I do have a dog that is protective of food, so I hand fed for a couple of weeks. 
No corrections, just hand fed two meals a day. I didn't care if he took the food away and ate it, but he had to come to me to get it. He still doesn't like me near his food, but he does not growl and snap anymore. 

99% of the time I feed and leave them alone.....but I will hand feed if the dog is food aggressive. I would not try to pet or stroke a dog when eating.


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## Sue Miller

Put an empty bowl down for him at meal time & put a handful of food into the bowl. When he's finished put another handful in the bowl. Very soon he'll start looking at you to put the food in the bowl & the issue will be diffused. He'll think that you give him food instead of trying to take it away.


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## Carol Boche

Sue Miller said:


> Put an empty bowl down for him at meal time & put a handful of food into the bowl. When he's finished put another handful in the bowl. Very soon he'll start looking at you to put the food in the bowl & the issue will be diffused. He'll think that you give him food instead of trying to take it away.


This is good, and the only thing I would add is that the pup needs to sit and wait for you to drop the food, no grabbing at it on the way to the bowl. 

All my dogs sit and wait for me to set the dish down.....again, no corrections really...."sit"...the pup sits.....mark with a "yes" and set the bowl down....start with marking as soon as the pups butt hits the floor....and then lengthen (I lengthen as soon as the pup sits on their own...once they do that I will say "wait" then count to two and mark with a "yes"....can't expect a puppy to sit and wait for more than a second or two.....



And, when you set the dish down, do so at a normal speed...don't try to do it in slow motion or the pup will break.....


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## Howard Knauf

Sue Miller said:


> Put an empty bowl down for him at meal time & put a handful of food into the bowl. When he's finished put another handful in the bowl. Very soon he'll start looking at you to put the food in the bowl & the issue will be diffused. He'll think that you give him food instead of trying to take it away.


 That...or ADD high quality tidbits to the bowl. I like to add raw chicken livers and gizzards. Hand near the bowl = good stuff


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## ann schnerre

i require my dogs to let me take anything out of their mouths. i had one pup that would growl/snarl if i came near her when she was eating (8 wks old). i simply sat on the floor with her and her food, and hand-fed her. for maybe 2 wks. like others said above, she figured out pretty quick that her food came from ME.

i did tap her on the bridge of her nose when she got too pushy as well. this was the best dog i've ever owned, BTW. i still miss her.


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## Debbie Skinner

Colin Chin said:


> Hi,
> Would like to know whether you all have expeienced with working pup that growls while eating his or her meal if you touch/stroke him or her ? If yes, do you correct this habit ? Pup as in 9 weeks old. Thanks.
> 
> Colin


I'd stay far enough away where I couldn't hear the growling..then he'll probably not be growling. I can't think of a situation where I'd be correcting a 9 week old puppy as unless you are the breeder, you've only had the pup a very short time.

He's just a baby and if you start working him for food, it will help him view you differently more quickly. 

All my pups have just outgrown the growling on their own though whether or not I train with food. It's something puppies do to each other in a litter when they are eating.


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## 2170

Stay away when there eating, If I saw you at your favorite restaurant enjoying a nice thick burger and I ran up to you and started petting you and rubbing your hair when you were just trying to enjoy a bite to eat you would be pissed too. I would just let them be. You put food down so they can eat not to be played with while they eat


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## Connie Sutherland

Eric FAvetta said:


> Stay away when there eating, If I saw you at your favorite restaurant enjoying a nice thick burger and I ran up to you and started petting you and rubbing your hair when you were just trying to enjoy a bite to eat you would be pissed too. I would just let them be. You put food down so they can eat not to be played with while they eat


This is where I am. The dog does something (like sit) as described earlier to earn the food, but otherwise I am the giver of food, and when I have handed it over, it's the dog's. 

I don't like what I see as creating food anxiety.

The dog will calm down when it has become very clear to him that there is no threat to his food or his eating comfort. That's how I want it.



e.t.a.


Jeff Oehlsen said:


> .... all of my food aggro cases when I trained commercially came from this idea of messing with a dogs food.


Me too.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

If you try to take away my food (or i think you want to) I get nasty too....so, leave it.


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## Chris Michalek

I feed my working dogs in their crates. They eat, then they chill in there for about 10 minutes and then they are free. I never mess with them while they eat.


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## Steven Stroupes

My current Dutchie did this for a while around 6 months of age although she was growling when anyone came near her (I never actually touched her). I didn't correct the behavior either. I would just sit down near her and continue sitting while she finished eating. After a couple of days, she became accustomed to me being in her general area when eating and the problem stopped when she realized that I didn't intend to "steal" her food.


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## Edward Egan

The first time I feed my 9 week old puppy he growled when I walked back into the kitchen. I though what the hell did I get myself into? 
I was too advised to hand feed the dog, but that was kinda messy since the food was THK #-o. So I held the bowl for him for the first week or two, problem solved. That is also how I taught the basic commands, sit = get food. I still make him do something for his food.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Put an empty bowl down for him at meal time & put a handful of food into the bowl. When he's finished put another handful in the bowl. Very soon he'll start looking at you to put the food in the bowl & the issue will be diffused. He'll think that you give him food instead of trying to take it away.

What happens when the dog just nails you ?? Is it diffused then ?? What about when he wants to get the food from where you are getting it ?? You have the greatest potential for ****ing up by messing with their food.

Who came up with this shit anyway ?? I would like to know so I can visit them with a 2x4 and give them the gift. I have seen more dogs put down because their owners ****ed with their food because of whatever control freak idiot came up with the "**** with their food" concept.

Brilliant. 2 pages, half of which the posters have trained 2 dogs tops, and one just knew how to sit.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Colin Chin said:


> Gerry, what are the problems that I might get into if I continue to do it ?Please advice. Thanks.
> 
> Colin


I think you've heard them all, I can't think of one good reason to bother a dog in any way when it's eating unless you want it to grow up to be a wuss if it's a softer pup, or if it's a strong pup it will just become proactive at feeding time.

When you try to pet it or whatever you're doing when it eats and you feel the little body tense up, that should tell you something.


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## Meng Xiong

I also agree with everyone else, once I drop the food I leave it alone. From a young age I will walk around them while their eating, starting at a comfortable distance and progressively getting closer, but never close enough to bump or touch them. I think it helped my dog get over his slight food aggression when he was a pup as I think it builds trust that his food isn't in danger.


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## Carol Boche

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Put an empty bowl down for him at meal time & put a handful of food into the bowl. When he's finished put another handful in the bowl. Very soon he'll start looking at you to put the food in the bowl & the issue will be diffused. He'll think that you give him food instead of trying to take it away.
> 
> What happens when the dog just nails you ?? Is it diffused then ?? What about when he wants to get the food from where you are getting it ?? You have the greatest potential for ****ing up by messing with their food.
> 
> Who came up with this shit anyway ?? I would like to know so I can visit them with a 2x4 and give them the gift. I have seen more dogs put down because their owners ****ed with their food because of whatever control freak idiot came up with the "**** with their food" concept.
> 
> Brilliant. 2 pages, half of which the posters have trained 2 dogs tops, and one just knew how to sit.


LOL....yeah, you are correct....I should have just stayed out of it like I told myself to do..... 

But, I wasn't real clear in my explanations either. 

The pup must perform a command for the food....then they get the whole dish and I walk away....period. 

IF the dog is food aggro (like snapping when I back away from the bowl after setting it down), not just puppy growling, then I hand feed for a while.....the dog learns that I am a source of food and learns that quietly sitting for me to put the dish down is what I want. 

After the dish is placed, I do not mess with the dog.


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## Connie Sutherland

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I think you've heard them all, I can't think of one good reason to bother a dog in any way when it's eating ....


Neither can I. And this comes from decades of training lots o' dogs (of my own and of other people's) as well as assessing and working with "problem dogs" at the shelter.

I've seen plenty of food-guarding problems. But I've never had a new dog continue to be anxious about his food in my house past the first few weeks, max.

I've never understood why I would want to be perceived as the food take-back person. I gave the food! I'm the giver of good stuff! :lol:


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## Harry Keely

Sue Miller said:


> Put an empty bowl down for him at meal time & put a handful of food into the bowl. When he's finished put another handful in the bowl. Very soon he'll start looking at you to put the food in the bowl & the issue will be diffused. He'll think that you give him food instead of trying to take it away.


Don't know if thats some stuff you came up with or you got from somebody else. But its horse crap. Good possibility you could become part of that frustration and get your butt handed to you to.](*,)

To the fella that originally started this post don't mess with the dogs food let him eat.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You can always tell who has had a dog that truely had some worth, and who had the run of the mill shitters with these threads.

Pups who are brought up by idiots, usually have the growling thing for a while as these moron "breeders" just threw down a bowl with plenty of food for the pups the last few weeks.

For most of you that have figured it out, Awesome. 

Let me tell you, I have seen half starved pups, as the dominant creature in the house was always messing with their food, so they just leave the bowl.

I have seen dogs that will ONLY eat when the idiot...er owner is not in the room. There are all kinds of things you can **** up by being such an IDIOT CONTROL FREAK as to need to touch dog food.


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## Sue Miller

Harry Keely said:


> Don't know if thats some stuff you came up with or you got from somebody else. But its horse crap. Good possibility you could become part of that frustration and get your butt handed to you to.](*,)
> 
> To the fella that originally started this post don't mess with the dogs food let him eat.


He's a hungry 9-week-old puppy :-D When you give him the food, you're not messing with him, you're giving him food--you know, like his mother used to do. I don't make him do anything for the food (I use food for obedience sessions too), just drop a handful into his bowl when he's eaten what's in the bowl. He's going to get used to you putting food into his bowl--he'll associate you with giving him his food, not taking it away. You don't have to do this forever, just until he looks to you for the food & doesn't growl & gobble faster everytime you get near.

I don't take my dog's food away from them & I don't mess with them, but I don't want to be bitten if I happen to walk by a dog eating his food.


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## Sue Miller

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Put an empty bowl down for him at meal time & put a handful of food into the bowl. When he's finished put another handful in the bowl. Very soon he'll start looking at you to put the food in the bowl & the issue will be diffused. He'll think that you give him food instead of trying to take it away.
> 
> What happens when the dog just nails you ?? Is it diffused then ?? What about when he wants to get the food from where you are getting it ?? You have the greatest potential for ****ing up by messing with their food.
> 
> Who came up with this shit anyway ?? I would like to know so I can visit them with a 2x4 and give them the gift. I have seen more dogs put down because their owners ****ed with their food because of whatever control freak idiot came up with the "**** with their food" concept.
> 
> Brilliant. 2 pages, half of which the posters have trained 2 dogs tops, and one just knew how to sit.


Hey Jeff, take a minute & read what I wrote--I'm not messing with his food, I'm giving him his food, giving him his food, giving him his food--he's not going to nail me because I'm messing with his food--I'm giving him his food, giving him his food, giving him his food--I'm not taking it away, I'm not punishing him for growling, I'M GIVING HIM HIS FOOD!

I put the food up high so he can't grab it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Sue, you are a control freak. It is ok to admit that. The growling gobbling thing goes away on it's own, no need to spend time on it. Get a hobby.


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## Harry Keely

Sue I have voice my opinion, but like Ij ust said a opinion thats all I can do. Its your dog and you do what you want with it. I leave it at that. Good Luck to you.


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## Chris Michalek

Sue Miller said:


> Hey Jeff, take a minute & read what I wrote--I'm not messing with his food, I'm giving him his food, giving him his food, giving him his food--he's not going to nail me because I'm messing with his food--I'm giving him his food, giving him his food, giving him his food--I'm not taking it away, I'm not punishing him for growling, I'M GIVING HIM HIS FOOD!
> 
> I put the food up high so he can't grab it.



make the dog sit or platz.

Put the food dish in his crate. Release him to the crate. DONE. The dog stays in there while eating. You don't mess with him and he can't nip you when you walk by.

Why is this so hard for some people?


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## Carol Boche

Chris Michalek said:


> make the dog sit or platz.
> 
> Put the food dish in his crate. Release him to the crate. DONE. The dog stays in there while eating. You don't mess with him and he can't nip you when you walk by.
> 
> Why is this so hard for some people?


There should be a place where we can just click on generic answers like this.....would save me a lot of headbanging on my desk if I could type what I want to say like this....LOL ](*,):mrgreen:


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## Timothy Saunders

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I think you've heard them all, I can't think of one good reason to bother a dog in any way when it's eating unless you want it to grow up to be a wuss if it's a softer pup, or if it's a strong pup it will just become proactive at feeding time.
> 
> When you try to pet it or whatever you're doing when it eats and you feel the little body tense up, that should tell you something.


Here is one reason. your dog is eating something it shouldn't and you need to get it. Unlike everyone else I want to be able to do what ever I want to my dog. So I guess I am a control freak. 

teaching your dog house manners or rule are seperate from formal training. So things I might let him get away with in formal training I wouldn't in this case. jmo


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## Carol Boche

Timothy Saunders said:


> Here is one reason. your dog is eating something it shouldn't and you need to get it. Unlike everyone else I want to be able to do what ever I want to my dog. So I guess I am a control freak.
> 
> teaching your dog house manners or rule are seperate from formal training. So things I might let him get away with in formal training I wouldn't in this case. jmo


This is where a "leave it" command would come in, IMHO.


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## Connie Sutherland

Carol Boche said:


> This is where a "leave it" command would come in, IMHO.


This would be where I would use "leave it," too.

Not in the same category at all (to me) as the food I dispense to the dog.


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## Chris Michalek

Timothy Saunders said:


> Here is one reason. your dog is eating something it shouldn't and you need to get it. Unlike everyone else I want to be able to do what ever I want to my dog. So I guess I am a control freak.
> 
> teaching your dog house manners or rule are seperate from formal training. So things I might let him get away with in formal training I wouldn't in this case. jmo



I don't know why so many people work on sit, speak, lay down, roll over, shake, gimmie 5 and all that other BS when from puppyhood, the two most important things to teach are DROP/OUT and COME.

If you've done it correctly then you shouldn't ever have a problem with getting things out of your dog's mouth.



Why is this so hard for some people? :-k


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## Sue Miller

Thanks Jeff! I'll post a video just for you of a dog who hasn't grown out of his gobbling.

Harry--you don't have to agree with me--I promise I won't cry


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## Chris Michalek

Sue Miller said:


> Thanks Jeff! I'll post a video just for you of a dog who hasn't grown out of his gobbling.
> 
> Harry--you don't have to agree with me--I promise I won't cry



is there a problem with feeding a dog like that in a crate?


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## Sue Miller

Chris Michalek said:


> is there a problem with feeding a dog like that in a crate?


Absolutely not! That's why he's fed in his crate. We rescued him when he was 5 years old with mega issues.

What I'm trying to say--the puppy has an issue with food--I would never take his food away or correct him for this. He is possessive with his food--if I'm giving him his food (if I put his dish down, that's a one-time event--handfuls give you more chance to condition him), he's not going to become more possessive. I'm also making friends with the little guy--puppies especially like to eat :lol:


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## Bob Scott

I've always made an acitve effort to avoid conflict with food. First with my own kids and now with my g-kids.
They (kids) put the food dish on the ground with half the rations in it. When the dog is finished they put more food in the dish by hand, one hand at a time. 
The dogs learns to associate hands comming by the bowl as suppliers. 
I've never had a food aggression problem of any kind and the kids/gkids have always liked feeding the dogs.
Were it not for the kids I would have no problem just leaving them be.


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## steve davis

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You can always tell who has had a dog that truely had some worth, and who had the run of the mill shitters with these threads.
> 
> Pups who are brought up by idiots, usually have the growling thing for a while as these moron "breeders" just threw down a bowl with plenty of food for the pups the last few weeks.
> 
> For most of you that have figured it out, Awesome.
> 
> Let me tell you, I have seen half starved pups, as the dominant creature in the house was always messing with their food, so they just leave the bowl.
> 
> I have seen dogs that will ONLY eat when the idiot...er owner is not in the room. There are all kinds of things you can **** up by being such an IDIOT CONTROL FREAK as to need to touch dog food.


 
so are you saying that messing with a dogs food is a bad thing?? or are you refering to the folks that try to over establish there dominance?


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## Nicole Stark

steve davis said:


> so are you saying that messing with a dogs food is a bad thing?? or are you refering to the folks that try to over establish there dominance?


I'm thinking if you reverse the two sentences above you have your answer. So read it like this:

Folks that try to over establish their dominance by messing with a dogs food is a bad thing.


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## Jennifer Marshall

I also agree that there is no reason to mess with a dog or its food while it eats. 

BUT I don't tolerate food aggression or resource guarding towards me. If I gave either of my boys a chewie and walked past them and got growled at I would whoop some ass. Aggression towards me, period, is not acceptable, but I also don't purposefully provoke it. 

Some people have it in their heads that they have to provoke the aggression in order to correct it and thus prevent it in the future. I don't think that intentionally messing with a dog to try and create good feelings while they eat is necessary or a good idea, and that intentionally provoking an aggressive response is a straight up dumb idea. 

But again, if I am doing nothing wrong I do not tolerate an aggressive response from my dog.


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## Matthew Grubb

I feed all my dogs in their crates. In the "dog world" the pack leader never messes with a lower pack member's food once he gives it to them... Only bully humans do that.


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## Matthew Grubb

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> If you try to take away my food (or i think you want to) I get nasty too....so, leave it.


I'm the same way with good beer!


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## Candy Eggert

Matthew Grubb said:


> I feed all my dogs in their crates. In the "dog world" the pack leader never messes with a lower pack member's food once he gives it to them... Only bully humans do that.


Booya Matthew ;-) Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner folks!


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## ann schnerre

i would like to add that i have only ever hand-fed the one dog, as a pup. i have my dogs "sit", place their food, then leave them alone. i have even fed them in their crates (lordy,lordy!). 

at times, it IS approriate to hand-feed a pup, at others, it's not even necessary. without seeing the pup in question, i can't say what is the correct reaction to the situation. 

and as far as an ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT "OUT" when the dog has a real treasure, well, i guess i'm not up to par with some others on the forum: at times, my dogs have been known to blow me off, and i have had to TAKE the item from their mouths. 

my failure as a trainer to teach the "out", my success as a trainer in being able to remove something from their mouth without a bite. go figure...i AM working hard w/Ike on "bring"/trade FWIW.

and when did the discussion become about taking food from a pup (or dog)?? i thought it was about how to get a 9 wk old pup over the "growlies" over food....


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## Gerry Grimwood

ann schnerre said:


> i
> 
> and when did the discussion become about taking food from a pup (or dog)?? i thought it was about how to get a 9 wk old pup over the "growlies" over food....


It originated from whether you should correct a 9 week old pup that growls when you are petting it while it is eating.

" Hi,
Would like to know whether you all have expeienced with working pup that growls while eating his or her meal if you touch/stroke him or her ? If yes, do you correct this habit ? Pup as in 9 weeks old. Thanks."

All the rest is just evolution :lol:


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## Nicole Stark

Gerry Grimwood said:


> It originated from whether you should correct a 9 week old pup that growls when you are petting it while it is eating.
> 
> " Hi,
> Would like to know whether you all have expeienced with working pup that growls while eating his or her meal if you touch/stroke him or her ? If yes, do you correct this habit ? Pup as in 9 weeks old. Thanks."
> 
> All the rest is just evolution :lol:


I was just getting ready to post that. So yea, same thought here too. The petting, which may have lead to a growl seems to have developed into the question of what to do about it. Course it may also be that the petting started in response to a growl the puppy let out while eating alone and untouched. In response to this many inexperienced owners seem to transition to heavier stroking, fumbling around the head and shoulders, then down to the food bowl and eventually on to sneaking food out or taking the bowl away. All the while setting the stage for the dog to feel that resource guarding is necessary. Anyway, I assume that this thread developed from that common progression of things. 

Pretty much everyone has said leave them alone when they're eating, put them up if you prefer or need to, but if something escalates seemingly without sufficient provocation, then deal with it accordingly.


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## Jennifer Marshall

Matthew Grubb said:


> I feed all my dogs in their crates. In the "dog world" the pack leader never messes with a lower pack member's food once he gives it to them... Only bully humans do that.


Ok, to add something here ... if we are speaking of a group feeding session .. alphas/dominant pack members do not "give" food to other pack members at all. They merely become full and leave the carcass or food source. If you set out 4 bowls for 4 dogs and the dominant dog was not "full" after its meal it would take food from a lesser ranking pack member because one of the benefits of dominance is eating first, and eating the most.

If we are going to consider wolves and the behavior of wolves during feeding and compare it to dog-human interaction when food is involved watch these videos:
right after the kill: http://www.naturefootage.com/video_clips/KR01_047
after the pack leaders/alphas have been feeding for a while: http://www.naturefootage.com/video_clips/KR01_048

http://www.naturefootage.com/video_clips/KR01_051

http://www.naturefootage.com/video_clips/KR01_041

You will notice that the alpha is not aggressive towards pack members that are not directly trying to move in on the food. You can see one of them being sneaky and eating underneath two other wolves out of sight of the alpha. Just being near the carcass does not elicit an aggressive response, only trying to steal a bite is. As the alphas become full, more members are allowed to join in and eat as long as they respect their places on the carcass. In the 3rd video at the end you can see the black wolf responding to another pack member that is trying to edge in on the kill. In the last video more members are eating at once. The lower the rank, the later you eat.

This situation also depends on the season, for wolves. The more abundant the food, the less strict the feeding arrangements. The closer to breeding season, the more important it is to establish and maintain rank and so the higher the level of aggression. Wolves can and will eat together, face to face. Altercations occur when direct eye contact is made or one pack member tries to move to a different area of the carcass, etc.

If a more dominant animal wants something a less dominant animal has, it will take it. If a lower ranking pack member catches a rabbit and the alpha wants it, the alpha will take it. None of the other pack members show aggression towards the alpha pair and aggression from lower ranking pack members is not tolerated.

. Sorry for the hijack. I don't think that anyone should mess with a puppy's food or the puppy while it eats. You will create problems, as has been stated.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Yes, the wolves 

Where would we be without the wolf reference.


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## Connie Sutherland

Jennifer Marshall said:


> I don't think that anyone should mess with a puppy's food or the puppy while it eats. You will create problems, as has been stated.




And I'm pretty much not eating my fill of the RMBs before letting the dogs sidle in beside me. :lol:

I'm the giver of good stuff, no matter what the top wolf does. :lol: :lol:


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## Jennifer Marshall

Connie Sutherland said:


> And I'm pretty much not eating my fill of the RMBs before letting the dogs sidle in beside me. :lol:
> 
> I'm the giver of good stuff, no matter what the top wolf does. :lol: :lol:


I'm with ya there Connie, lol. At the same time, people tend to let food aggression in adult dogs slide too often. It's one thing to create a problem of nervousness in a puppy when it is eating, and an entirely different matter to ignore food aggression in an adult that is not provoked.

Gerry, I have to refer to wolves when it comes to things such as mass feeding as I don't know of anyone who feeds a group of adult working dogs out of one big dish. The differences in dogs and wolves is clear, dogs have had certain traits modified, certain drives drastically increased and others decreased, but the basis of the pack structure remains the same, the hierarchy structure is the same. I don't recommend trying to feed a pack of working dogs on a carcass.

Most of us don't have in our households animals that fit into each niche that would exist in a normal pack, many working dogs are bred for high levels of dominance and when you get more than one together and give them something valuable you are asking for a dead dog or very high vet bills.

The specific differences in pack structure of dogs vs wolves doesn't matter much. Nearly every species on the planet recognizes a hierarchy system within their species whether they are solitary or pack/herd animals. 

Many people refer to themselves as their dogs pack leader/alpha etc and think of themselves as the dogs master. They can be a partner and a companion to the dog, but in the end they outrank the dog by being the provider of reward, food, and interaction as well as discipline and rules.


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## Gerry Grimwood

I understand.

But the guy was asking about petting/stroking one pup while it is eating, and whether he should correct it for growling while he does that.

No wolves involved.


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## Jennifer Marshall

True, but people often think that it is inappropriate for a pup or dog to get snippy or growly if they mess with it while it is eating, that it is a pack structure issue blah blah when they directly provoked the response. 

There are people out there that will tell you to whop an 8 week old pup on the head for this and say it is a pack structue issue/dominance problem. So I say it isn't a back structure/dominance issue in a puppy and provide video of pack structure/dominance at work while feeding in wolves to back up my answer. I was aslo responding to the statement that alphas don't take what they give, only humans do 

..... and.. I try to restrain myself and not post about wolves but sometimes I just can't help myself.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
Thanks Jeff! I'll post a video just for you of a dog who hasn't grown out of his gobbling.

A control freak based issue made into a nightmare. How does this apply to what I said again ??


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
so are you saying that messing with a dogs food is a bad thing?? or are you refering to the folks that try to over establish there dominance?

I think some ****ing nut case control freak somehow managed to convince a lot of people that it is necessary to do something other than just put the ****ing bowl in the crate and shut the door and walk away.

Possibly one of the greatest marketing campaigns of absolute bullshit since Jose cuervo......which is absolute bullshit as well.

I have found that dogs figure out you are bullshit wether you **** with their food, or you don't. I have known dogs that could care less if you **** with their food, but OWN their owners completely.

Every time I see shit like this, all I can think of is that the people that respond that you should mess with the food are control freaks, mis informed, or need something better to do with their lives.

Once you have had more than 1 or 2 dogs, I would think you would outgrow this silly shit. It is a lot like you can't train a dog until 6 months of age kind of stupid.

I had many clients that HAD to fart around with their dogs food, and so the dog HAD to growl, bite, threat display, which cause another round of HAVING to fart around with the food, and on and on and on.

I took the dog for a couple of weeks while they went on vacation, and they REALLY emphasized the dogs food aggression. I didn't see it one time. Imagine that.

Meanwhile, these same people cannot train a dog for shit. HA HA


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## Howard Gaines III

Sure let them protect the food, then as you walk by it bites you....RIGHT! Cesar101 watch the show...:^o


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## maggie fraser

My dog has been quite a resource guarder, we don't have any problems now and haven't had for some time....and it's not something I 'correct' or 'whop' him for, well at least since I started to pay attention and had to near 'peel myself off the kitchen ceiling lol'.

My tip to the op would be....

Whilst the pup is young, hands about the dish whilst he is feeding and adding goodies into the bowl helps him build trust and good association but otherwise leave him be whilst eating... after all, it is either his or it is yours, when mine are presented with food, it becomes theirs.

It's essential that resource guarders, particularly if they live in the house, are trained well as the control is required to manage aspects of resource guarding when they arise and then it needn't be any kind of problem to deal with.

I could see that messing with a dog whilst he is eating, and physically correcting him for it only adds up to one big problem, or at least a degradation of the relationship at best.


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## Debbie Skinner

First off as soon as I hear the age of the puppy, I would not correct it as I mentioned before. Give the pup a chance to outgrow the growling. Normally the pups do. If the pup, by some weird turn of events doesn't outgrow the growling then you can handle it later. 

How hard does it hurt to get bit by even 3 month old puppy or wait til he's teething and it hurts less! Joking! I've experienced it many, many times..it's not life threatening. LOL Seriously they outgrow it if they have a normal temperament and are not continually harassed when eating. People like back rubs too, but save it for when they aren't eating.

I do see more problems (hurts more) when I get a puppy that has allowed group eating for an extended time period. I have a 4 month old female now from France that lived with her sister until I got her (New Year's Eve). She is food possessive and even training with food is harder to start than with a 6-7 week old. Teeth hurt a lot more. Do I pound her for biting my hands along with the food? NO! She doesn't know any better. Would you pound a 2 year old child for punching you in the face or pulling your hair? I put on gloves and eventually she calms down and understands. She had to be rough, fast and aggressive to compete with her sister up until now. 

We do separate the pups by 6-7 weeks old (depends on the litter's temperament). When they get to start eating separately young and start being worked with food (little positions, and recalls and outs off the puppy equipment). However, I am not concerned at all with working with the 4 month old. Yes, the pup is bigger and stronger and more set in it's way..so what. It's called Patience.

Not directed at anyone in particular:
Sometimes I wonder if this need to control stems from a fear of dogs or maybe that it's easier to control the pup/dog than the rest of a person's life? Anyone that is going to handle a lot of dogs has to actually get used to working with dogs you must respect. Do most people believe that all dogs can be dominated and forced into submission? It's a good start to respect all animals and focus more on control of one's own eating habits, etc more and you will have less time to bug your dog when it's eating.](*,)


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## Jeff Oehlsen

HA HA Debbie, you just called out all the fat people. Thats AWESOME.

They probably don't get it if you write it like that. These are the same people nobody liked in high school. : )


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## Debbie Skinner

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> HA HA Debbie, you just called out all the fat people. Thats AWESOME.
> 
> They probably don't get it if you write it like that. These are the same people nobody liked in high school. : )


I did not! Thin people eat like shit too!


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## Sue Miller

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> so are you saying that messing with a dogs food is a bad thing?? or are you refering to the folks that try to over establish there dominance?
> 
> I think some ****ing nut case control freak somehow managed to convince a lot of people that it is necessary to do something other than just put the ****ing bowl in the crate and shut the door and walk away.
> 
> Possibly one of the greatest marketing campaigns of absolute bullshit since Jose cuervo......which is absolute bullshit as well.
> 
> I have found that dogs figure out you are bullshit wether you **** with their food, or you don't. I have known dogs that could care less if you **** with their food, but OWN their owners completely.
> 
> Every time I see shit like this, all I can think of is that the people that respond that you should mess with the food are control freaks, mis informed, or need something better to do with their lives.
> 
> Once you have had more than 1 or 2 dogs, I would think you would outgrow this silly shit. It is a lot like you can't train a dog until 6 months of age kind of stupid.
> 
> I had many clients that HAD to fart around with their dogs food, and so the dog HAD to growl, bite, threat display, which cause another round of HAVING to fart around with the food, and on and on and on.
> 
> I took the dog for a couple of weeks while they went on vacation, and they REALLY emphasized the dogs food aggression. I didn't see it one time. Imagine that.
> 
> Meanwhile, these same people cannot train a dog for shit. HA HA


Sorry Jeff--I thought we were joking around--won't bother you again.


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## Don Turnipseed

Food for thought. I have often wondered why so many dogs displayed food aggression. I think it is because they are not getting, or at some time, have not gotten enough to eat over an extended period of time. I free feed and the very first meal pups get is when they eat out of the feeder. I have never had food aggression in the dogs. Having up to 7 or 8 dogs in the same yard it would be a real problem. Pups just wlaz up any time they feel like and eat....even if they have to squeeze in next to one of the adults. IIf I wanted to screw with them I could pull their head out of the feeder, open their mouth and take the food out and they wouldn't pobject. When I was done screwing with them they would just get another mouthfull because they know it is there. I can't imagine haveing a bunch of food aggressive dogs in the same yard. When I am giving out leg quarters each day, I do walk around and personally hand each dog theirs. I think people that screw with the dogs while eating are the same ones that worry about the dog walking through the door before them or makes a big deal about the dominate dog being fed or petted first. I have never found that it makes any difference because I am the boss. What do you do if a lesser dog needs to be handled to give him a shot....give the dominate dog a shot first so he doesn't get his feeling hurt?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Sorry Jeff--I thought we were joking around--won't bother you again.

Better never EVER do that again. Gotta remember that most people SHOP for opinions, so they will not read that as a joke. Look how many posts and how many views this retard post has.


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## maggie fraser

I don't know about that Don.... my current gsd as a pup was nice and robust, the breeder had mentioned though that she thought he was the one who got the lion's share at feeding time, (he had been the heaviest pup of the litter at eight weeks), they had all seemed well and regularly fed on a system of raw meat/chicken and ad lib biscuit.

I wonder if it is partly genetic, some dogs have it and some don't, I know one of the pups from the one and only litter of gsds I bred years ago, seemed to pop out food aggressive from the get go.

The first main family dog when I was a child was a very food aggressive bloodhound.... I remember my father 'trying to show him who was boss' it was pretty ugly and never even made a dent in the behaviour. We as kids learned to work around it, it was a good learning experience.


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## Don Turnipseed

Could be a tone of variable Maggie. The litter seemed to be well fed but unless you have control over everything....it is still "seemed to be well fed". 
Another thing it may indicate is they have feral tendancies. If the were not handled from day one they may not come to anyone either. Feral is feral but can be conditioned. There is a possibility also.


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## Don Turnipseed

Debbie said


> I do see more problems (hurts more) when I get a puppy that has allowed group eating for an extended time period. I have a 4 month old female now from France that lived with her sister until I got her (New Year's Eve). She is food possessive and even training with food is harder to start than with a 6-7 week old. Teeth hurt a lot more. Do I pound her for biting my hands along with the food? NO! She doesn't know any better.


 Debbie, are you talking about when you have stuff in your hand that you are giving them like treats? If so, do you consider being competative for what you have in your hand the same as being aggressive?


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## maggie fraser

Yes Don, I chose my words, 'seemed' as I did not know for sure.

My inclination though tends more toward competition between litter mates.... my jack russels were all fed ad lib as pups they turned out to be what I would call particularly sociable at feeding times, in that they would stuff their face like a hamster does, then go up by the big dogs empty their cheeks and eat their food close by the 'pack'.


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## Kyle Sprag

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sue, you are a control freak. It is ok to admit that. The growling gobbling thing goes away on it's own, no need to spend time on it. Get a hobby.


 
The gobbling thing will not go away with some dogs, I have had Two Mals that will damn near Punch their face through the bottom of the bolw, I have Never messed with their food, they are fed at the same times in their crate, that is just the way they eat and I don't really give a shit.


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## maggie fraser

Kyle Sprag said:


> The gobbling thing will not go away with some dogs, I have had Two Mals that will damn near Punch their face through the bottom of the bolw, I have Never messed with their food, they are fed at the same times in their crate, that is just the way they eat and I don't really give a shit.


 
I agree that with some dogs this doesn't just go away, I think also some of these dogs can get a little posessive or sensitive when you go near them when they are resting in their bed/space too.... something else I don't mess with.


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## Sue Miller

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Sorry Jeff--I thought we were joking around--won't bother you again.
> 
> Better never EVER do that again. Gotta remember that most people SHOP for opinions, so they will not read that as a joke. Look how many posts and how many views this retard post has.


Jeff--I'm not sorry for what I said--I meant every word of it. I thought you were kidding about me being a control freak & I was joking about that & the video. I'm just going to stay away from joking with you.


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## maggie fraser

Sue Miller said:


> Jeff--I'm not sorry for what I said--I meant every word of it. I thought you were kidding about me being a control freak & I was joking about that & the video. I'm just going to stay away from joking with you.


Take it to PM will you, boring and ot.....


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Once again, reading is fundamental.

Quote: The gobbling thing will not go away with some dogs

But right there in your post, you have what I said : The growling gobbling thing goes away on it's own, no need to spend time on it. Get a hobby.

GROWLING being the key word.


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## ann schnerre

Gerry Grimwood said:


> It originated from whether you should correct a 9 week old pup that growls when you are petting it while it is eating.
> 
> " Hi,
> Would like to know whether you all have expeienced with working pup that growls while eating his or her meal if you touch/stroke him or her ? If yes, do you correct this habit ? Pup as in 9 weeks old. Thanks."
> 
> All the rest is just evolution :lol:


 
my bad! i did get caught up in the 'evolution" (one of my failings, unfortunately). 

my answer to the OP's question: i don't "pet/stroke/touch" dogs while they're eating. i DO require my dogs release/out/let me take ANY object out of their mouths, at my pleasure.


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## Colin Chin

ann schnerre said:


> my answer to the OP's question: i don't "pet/stroke/touch" dogs while they're eating. i DO require my dogs release/out/let me take ANY object out of their mouths, at my pleasure.


Ann,
How did you do it ? You don't pet/stroke/touch but you can take anything out from his mouth ? You mean his food as well ? I think taking thing out from his mouth is much more serious than just petting/stroke/touch. Thanks.

Colin


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## Bob Scott

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Put an empty bowl down for him at meal time & put a handful of food into the bowl. When he's finished put another handful in the bowl. Very soon he'll start looking at you to put the food in the bowl & the issue will be diffused. He'll think that you give him food instead of trying to take it away.
> 
> What happens when the dog just nails you ?? Is it diffused then ?? What about when he wants to get the food from where you are getting it ?? You have the greatest potential for ****ing up by messing with their food.
> 
> Who came up with this shit anyway ?? I would like to know so I can visit them with a 2x4 and give them the gift. I have seen more dogs put down because their owners ****ed with their food because of whatever control freak idiot came up with the "**** with their food" concept.
> 
> Brilliant. 2 pages, half of which the posters have trained 2 dogs tops, and one just knew how to sit.


 
:lol: Jeff, puppies aren't that hard to read........but, just in case, that's why I have the gkids do it first!
Builds character! :twisted::wink:
I have yet to ever have to put a dog down for doing something stupid. Lucky I guess. :-D
:-k Well, I did send one of the Mals I had to the pound. A friend of my son's "rescued" it and the spaz dog has cost her a bundle in two ACL rebuilds, tearing up other dogs, being a total freakizoid with anything that moves.....or anything that doesn't.
Told her so from the start but she's one of them "savers". ](*,)


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## Nicole Stark

Colin Chin said:


> Ann,
> How did you do it ? You don't pet/stroke/touch but you can take anything out from his mouth ? You mean his food as well ? I think taking thing out from his mouth is much more serious than just petting/stroke/touch. Thanks.
> 
> Colin


I like analogies. So lets liken this to a robbery vs you giving up something you covet to a trusted friend. If you do sneaky weird nagging things to your dog you can pretty much figure that when you need to fall back on trust, clearly it won't be there and you are not going to get the reaction you want. As others mentioned, a solid handle on the out command works with this too especially if you need to utilize it at a distance, just remember to proof this exercise to factor in context. Out means out, no matter what its got or how far away the dog is from you. The one time it failed me was when I didn't teach it (imagine that), the dog had a kitten in his mouth and I had to use shovel to get him to drop it.


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## Colin Chin

Nicole Stark said:


> I like analogies. So lets liken this to a robbery vs you giving up something you covet to a trusted friend. If you do sneaky weird nagging things to your dog you can pretty much figure that when you need to fall back on trust, clearly it won't be there and you are not going to get the reaction you want. As others mentioned, a solid handle on the out command works with this too especially if you need to utilize it at a distance, just remember to proof this exercise to factor in context. Out means out, no matter what its got or how far away the dog is from you. The one time it failed me was when I didn't teach it (imagine that), the dog had a kitten in his mouth and I had to use shovel to get him to drop it.


Hi Nicole,
Meaning if I stop my silly act and leave my pup alone while, I will not have problem later on when I train on the OUT command ? 

Actually, I watched a documentary years ago about rehome programme for Pitbulls. One of the tests was that the person put her hand into the food dish while the dog was eating. The dog has to pass the test without any growling or biting. Temperament evaluation ?


Colin


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## Colin Chin

Bob Scott said:


> :lol: Jeff, puppies aren't that hard to read........but, just in case, that's why I have the gkids do it first!
> Builds character! :twisted::wink:
> I have yet to ever have to put a dog down for doing something stupid. Lucky I guess. :-D
> :-k Well, I did send one of the Mals I had to the pound. A friend of my son's "rescued" it and the spaz dog has cost her a bundle in two ACL rebuilds, tearing up other dogs, being a total freakizoid with anything that moves.....or anything that doesn't.
> Told her so from the start but she's one of them "savers". ](*,)


Bob,
That is my concern too in that I don't want my kids' presence around her while eating triggers a snap or bite from her. But, she has no problem eating from my kids and wife's feeding hand. 

Colin


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## Howard Gaines III

ER, ER, Snap, Snap... these are good eats! Finger tips too, good meal!


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## Carlos Machado

My pup did some growling when the kids went by her food, the runt in her litter had to be separated early because they wouldn't let her eat mine was a fat pup biggest girl. I had the kids hand feed her problem solved quickly they only give food no threat. Last christmas we were expecting family over I crated her and fed her some turkey & kibble my niece came in and ran over before I realized and was puting her hand in the crate to say hello the dog luckely she didn't care because I had conditioned her we only give food. My 2 & 5 year old at the time shouldn't learn to fear the pup or teach the pup it is dominant which could happen if just ignored the pup has put them in there place by growling next it might be for running to close one day a real bite because they wouldn't listen.
My dog did continue to growl over bones with the kids at first I ignored it I'd let the kids give the bones my youngest was less afraid of the pup but it continued more against the oldest and noticed that it was getting louder and from farther away. I stared rolling her on her side letting her hold the bone even putting it back in her mouth she wouldn't growl at me saying settle till she relaxed with the kids helping I could already do it easily she kept the bone the kids could do what they want sometimes they are to young to know better you have to teach them both. The pup is coming up to her second birthday I haven't had an issues in the last 1.5 years.


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## Kat LaPlante

Colin Chin said:


> Hi Nicole,
> Meaning if I stop my silly act and leave my pup alone while, I will not have problem later on when I train on the OUT command ?
> 
> Actually, I watched a documentary years ago about rehome programme for Pitbulls. One of the tests was that the person put her hand into the food dish while the dog was eating. The dog has to pass the test without any growling or biting. Temperament evaluation ?
> 
> 
> Colin


Hey Colin,,

Just a question....(this post you quoted made me think of it). I believe these tests you mentioned are to evaluate and establish if a dog is safe for the home of an inexperienced person that likely has kids and other animals and may not know what to do with the dog if they see these traits once the animal is in the priate home. (they are smart enough to know they don't want the f**king dog back)....so my question is, do you want a pet dog or are you willing to deal with the expected behaviors of a prey dirve monster, alligator, working dog? I believe your answer to this question will determine your answer to the first question HOWEVER, I do think that retards hit a puppy on the nose for protecting its food after the finger hitter gave it the food in the first place, and probably messed with its food for an experiment....


----------



## Kat LaPlante

Kat LaPlante said:


> Hey Colin,,
> 
> Just a question....(this post you quoted made me think of it). I believe these tests you mentioned are to evaluate and establish if a dog is safe for the home of an inexperienced person that likely has kids and other animals and may not know what to do with the dog if they see these traits once the animal is in the priate home. (they are smart enough to know they don't want the f**king dog back)....so my question is, do you want a pet dog or are you willing to deal with the expected behaviors of a prey dirve monster, alligator, working dog? I believe your answer to this question will determine your answer to the first question HOWEVER, I do think that retards hit a puppy on the nose for protecting its food after the finger hitter gave it the food in the first place, and probably messed with its food for an experiment....


 
Oh ya, my point, rehomeing a pit bull.......testing for food aggression........I've got a "rehome" suggestion for an aggressive pit bull ](*,)


----------



## Colin Chin

Kat LaPlante said:


> Hey Colin,,
> 
> Just a question....(this post you quoted made me think of it). I believe these tests you mentioned are to evaluate and establish if a dog is safe for the home of an inexperienced person that likely has kids and other animals and may not know what to do with the dog if they see these traits once the animal is in the priate home. (they are smart enough to know they don't want the f**king dog back)....so my question is, do you want a pet dog or are you willing to deal with the expected behaviors of a prey dirve monster, alligator, working dog? I believe your answer to this question will determine your answer to the first question HOWEVER, I do think that retards hit a puppy on the nose for protecting its food after the finger hitter gave it the food in the first place, and probably messed with its food for an experiment....


Kat,
I took the great advice from this board. This is what happens to my pup. I get everybody to hand feed her before I put down her dish. We leave her alone after that. No issus so far. One good thing happens in that she will have a bone in her mouth and she came looking for me or my wife for more food. She doesn't feel threatened that we might take her bone away. She will even drop it out and 'ask' us for more food. I think it is a good move from her side. Of course, we no longer touch or stroke her while she's eating her food. Standing nearby watching her eat, yes, sometimes. 

BTW, it is not keeping her as pet per se. Companion plus protection sports.


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## Colin Chin

Carlos Machado said:


> My pup did some growling when the kids went by her food, the runt in her litter had to be separated early because they wouldn't let her eat mine was a fat pup biggest girl. I had the kids hand feed her problem solved quickly they only give food no threat. Last christmas we were expecting family over I crated her and fed her some turkey & kibble my niece came in and ran over before I realized and was puting her hand in the crate to say hello the dog luckely she didn't care because I had conditioned her we only give food. My 2 & 5 year old at the time shouldn't learn to fear the pup or teach the pup it is dominant which could happen if just ignored the pup has put them in there place by growling next it might be for running to close one day a real bite because they wouldn't listen.
> My dog did continue to growl over bones with the kids at first I ignored it I'd let the kids give the bones my youngest was less afraid of the pup but it continued more against the oldest and noticed that it was getting louder and from farther away. I stared rolling her on her side letting her hold the bone even putting it back in her mouth she wouldn't growl at me saying settle till she relaxed with the kids helping I could already do it easily she kept the bone the kids could do what they want sometimes they are to young to know better you have to teach them both. The pup is coming up to her second birthday I haven't had an issues in the last 1.5 years.


Hi Carlos,
Thanks for sharing. Everyone in the family do hand feed almost everyday before she gets to eat on her own from her dish. She's good at taking food from our hands be it toddler or adults'. No issue of accident so far, she's juat take the food from the fingers. From your description, how far away your kids were from where your pup's eating ? I told my kids not go too near unless they want to hand feed her and call her name first. Cheers.

Colin


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I remember when this was a working dog forum. It is slowly sinking into a pet forum.

Might just have to start my own.


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## Don Turnipseed

Just the fact that this discussion is neccessary tells me all I need to know about the dog.


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## Carlos Machado

Colin the food growling was for a very short time at about 3 feet the kids hand fed the pup even filling the bowl one handful at a time they only give food so no problem. It was the good bones not toys or anything else that the pup was growling at later the last time was at our lakelot it happened when the 5 year old ran past the dog at 10-15 feet no charging but scared her so I taught the pup nobody wanted her bone and growling was not allowed. This dogs primary job is to protect the kids and home It can't do that from a kennel any sport title would be secondary and good training for her primary job including watching the kids ride their bikes in the front yard loose but stays on the property a would be perv wouldn't try anything same thing with crowds a dog you can't take anywhere has a limited working ability.


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## Connie Sutherland

Well, far be it from me to agree with Jeff, but come on! _Nine pages_ on whether to correct a puppy who growls while eating? :lol:

Every POV under the sun has been posted. What more can there possibly be to say?


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## Matt Grosch

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I remember when this was a working dog forum. It is slowly sinking into a pet forum.
> 
> Might just have to start my own.




It would be worth it just to see the vulgar/profane names members are given here based on post count just like the "ate the tug" here


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## maggie fraser

Colin Chin said:


> Hi,
> Would like to know whether you all have expeienced with working pup that growls while eating his or her meal if you touch/stroke him or her ? If yes, do you correct this habit ? Pup as in 9 weeks old. Thanks.
> 
> Colin


I'm sure I've read most of this thread but....has anyone suggested you just sell the pup and get one that doesn't growl when eating ? A lot less worries for you that way, especially as you have young kids.


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## James Downey

I say Experience is not the best teacher...but the only teacher. Try something....and pay attention to what happens. But do not let fear motivate your actions. People get so scared that the dog will be a monster, they worry themsleves into making the dog a monster.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
It would be worth it just to see the vulgar/profane names members are given here based on post count just like the "ate the tug" here

Or, more likely, you would not be invited. I have seen what you have contributed, and that is vulgar to me. So, really no need to worry your little head about it. You get to be relegated to the pet dept. where you belong.


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## Matt Grosch

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> It would be worth it just to see the vulgar/profane names members are given here based on post count just like the "ate the tug" here
> 
> Or, more likely, you would not be invited. I have seen what you have contributed, and that is vulgar to me. So, really no need to worry your little head about it. You get to be relegated to the pet dept. where you belong.




pet dept for now, but its highly likely that in approx two years I can surpass anything you've done in a lifetime....stay tuned


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## jack van strien

Connie,
Not only the people who have reacted but look at the number of people who have bee reading it!
I think it must be a topic a lot of people care about,maybe more pet related but still a very good thread.
I can not ad anything useful to the topic itself but all i can say is something vey basic is keeping a lot of folks on their toes.


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic

I haven't read the whole thread, just a few messages on the first page.

I would not "correct" (how would you correct a 9 week oldpuppy for growling about the food dish?) this puppy for growling, but I would calmly hand feed him for a while. That should take care of all the problems.

My current dog when he was 6 months old growled at me when I tried to move his food bowl that wassittign next to a fire ant "teepee" that I sat down there by accident.

A swift kick in a butt and a NO took care of it forever. His whole life since then... Every meal the dog sits and waits while I set the bowl down, then comes over and eats. Once the bowl is down and he starts eating, I do not mess with the dog at all. It's only fair, it's his dish, it's his food, he did what was asked of him to get it, it would be extremely unfair and uncool to not let him eat in peace.

Just my 2 cents. As far as WHY your 8 weeks old puppy is growling - I have no clue. Cold be a myriad of reasons.


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## maggie fraser

This thread could go on forever...... :lol:


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## Colin Chin

If you find your dog with a COOKED chicken bone in his mouth. What will you do ? 

Colin


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## Colin Chin

James Downey said:


> I say Experience is not the best teacher...but the only teacher. Try something....and pay attention to what happens. But do not let fear motivate your actions. People get so scared that the dog will be a monster, they worry themsleves into making the dog a monster.


Thanks James for sharing. Appreciate it. I am new to working dog and I am learning. Trying not to mess up too much. 

Colin


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## Nicole Stark

Colin Chin said:


> If you find your dog with a COOKED chicken bone in his mouth. What will you do ?
> 
> Colin


Kick yourself square in the ass for letting him/her get hold of it in the first place. [-X Colin, I know you mean well and want to do right by your puppy but I think you need to invite in some basic common sense into the raising of this puppy. Every dog and situation is different, there's no way to lay out every possible situation that could come up in an effort to try and be prepared especially since it appears that these questions evolved from a curious encounter you weren't sure what to do about. 

I told you before that if you aren't doing weird, sneaky stuff with your dog concerning his or her food you shouldn't have a problem when it comes to taking something away from the dog. I expect that your reaction alone would probably cause the dog to drop it. Sure, this doesn't apply to every dog and for those who it doesn't you'd probably have to kill yourself trying to work this behavior out of the dog anyway.


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## Bob Scott

# 103 sounds like a closer to me!


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