# Vom Linmarc German Shepherds



## Stuart Stuart (Dec 25, 2009)

Does anyone know anything about Vom Linmarc german shepherds. There web site is www.vomlinmarc.com. I am looking at some puppies they have.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Talk to the Lyda guys, you'll be better off with them.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

After the first sentence I clicked out "Breeding dark sables and blacks" if the color of his dogs is the first thing worth mentioning no need to look any further.[-(


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

Hi Mr. Stuart,

Steve Lino has been in GSDs FOREVER, and has an extensive training and breeding background. 
Also,I wouldn't discount a breeder because of the way he chooses to market, in this case for color, esp. since many specific working characteristics may be genetically linked with certain color patterns, particularly in the bloodlines he is using.

SPJ


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Stephanie P Johnson said:


> Hi Mr. Stuart,
> 
> Steve Lino has been in GSDs FOREVER, and has an extensive training and breeding background.
> Also,I wouldn't discount a breeder because of the way he chooses to market, in this case for color, esp. since many specific working characteristics may be genetically linked with certain color patterns, particularly in the bloodlines he is using.
> ...


 very true Stiephanie, I would ask for references and talk to people who have them to use the same way you are planning to use them jmo tim


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks Gerry but right now we don't have anything. Neither of my females took this time around. Unless an outside tie will produce, which both had an I doubt it will.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Stephanie P Johnson said:


> Hi Mr. Stuart,
> 
> Steve Lino has been in GSDs FOREVER, and has an extensive training and breeding background.
> Also,I wouldn't discount a breeder because of the way he chooses to market, in this case for color, esp. since many specific working characteristics may be genetically linked with certain color patterns, particularly in the bloodlines he is using.
> ...


OK second paragraph[SIZE=+2] 
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]"Here you will find German Shepherd dogs and puppies of outstanding appearance, strong bone structure and excellent temperament[/SIZE]*"

*


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The idea of the game (which I can't play for shit) is to make money. Marketing your dogs as high speed biting machines is probably gonna leave you with a lot of pups lying around.

If I were any good at this, I would probably do something very similar. Making money makes all the things in life a bit easier. Have a few litters and sell them for 1800, 2500, whatever, and there you go, I have paid for my trip to France to see the Championship, and the whole selectiffs.

Instead, I hack away at my job, and will get to see some of the selectiffs if I go, but maybe not the Championship, or vise versa. Maybe I will compete in the Championships here this year, and not go at all to France. However, if I was selling pups like this guy, I would be able to do both.

I don't think the description of the guys dogs is automatically the end of the line shitters, or a sign that they are awesome. I think it is good business practice. However I do not know the guy, or his dogs, and they could be **** all for all I know, I was just pointing out the business side of this game.....you know, the one I cannot play. : )


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

You might check out the DDR Legends board which I think Lino is a contributor to. The pedigree discussions can provide some background on the dogs he's used in his pedigrees.

Terrasita


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## CJ Neubert (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks Jeff,
Glad to know I am not alone in sucking at the "business game"


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> You might check out the DDR Legends board which I think Lino is a contributor to. The pedigree discussions can provide some background on the dogs he's used in his pedigrees.
> 
> Terrasita


Mostly discussions about pigment ;-)


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I will mention I have no clue if Vom Linmark sells good or bad dogs I'm just saying as a proponent and consumer of working line German Shepherds my first things I look at are health and work cant have work with out health.
I'm not opposes to having a proper looking Shepherd hell under the rite judge my Jett might go Kore1 that's why I get my pups from from reputable breeders who breed pink papered parents with proper health, work and structure and traceable history. I can follow my dog back to Horan.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Mostly discussions about pigment ;-)


Yeah you do need to dig through the black sable discussions, but there is more there and even on the Czech dogs.

Terrasita


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> OK second paragraph[SIZE=+2]
> [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]"Here you will find German Shepherd dogs and puppies of outstanding appearance, strong bone structure and excellent temperament[/SIZE]*"
> 
> *


So this is a bad thing? And here I was thinking for all these years that the whole point of working titles and koer reports was to produce just what is said in that sentence.

Am I missing your point?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Stephanie P Johnson said:


> So this is a bad thing? And here I was thinking for all these years that the whole point of working titles and koer reports was to produce just what is said in that sentence.
> 
> Am I missing your point?


The breeders first 2 paragraphs referring to his dogs there color and structure with no mention of there abilities for work. It makes ME question what his breeding priorities are
My priorities in a working German Shepherd would be health and able to do the job required the rest should also be with in the standard.
I'm out


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Actually for a lot of us, the temperament of the dog is what makes it work the way it does, so he did say something about the work. The major problem with working dogs is HD, so proper structure covers that. HA HA.


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## TOM SMITH (Dec 25, 2008)

The one time I spoke with Von Linmarc the guy was TOTAL JERK. I was calling him to talk about a puppy diet that he had posted on DDR forum,When he asked where I bought my dogs at and I told him Vandenhuevel, He went off about the price they charged and why do so many people buy from them.
As far as his dogs I don't know,But he will never get any of my money.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

The DDR Legends forum is Steve's own forum. His dogs are DDR & Czech line dogs, and all that I have seen have the large bone structure and big heads that are the fad right now. From what I've been told, this is a characteristic of DDR dogs, no? Big and blocky? I do not think many of his puppies - at least not the ones that go to owners that post to the Legends board - go to working homes. But I could be wrong.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Thanks Gerry but right now we don't have anything. Neither of my females took this time around. Unless an outside tie will produce, which both had an I doubt it will.


Unfortunately in my situation, but fortunately in yours, an outside tie can produce a litter. Years ago my boyfriend allowed my male and female together for just a few minutes, they had an outside tie, and 63 days later she delivered 13 mix breed puppies. So you never know.


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> The breeders first 2 paragraphs referring to his dogs there color and structure with no mention of there abilities for work. It makes ME question what his breeding priorities are


Mr. Scheiber - I understand your concern with the emphasis by Mr. Lino on the cosmetic attributes of his dogs, however it is not as if he is breeding white dogs or king-sized 175 pounders. The structure and pigments of his bloodlines are well within the standard. 
If you had bothered to read past the first two paragraphs you would have seen that he pays his dues re. the work. 
You made an off the cuff judgement of someone and his dogs you admittedly know nothing about, based on out of context paragraphs from his website. A little hasty, don't you think?
How would you like it if, based on the few posts of yours I have read on this forum, I was to say that you are inarticulate, immature, and probably a marginal trainer due to your lack of attention to detail?

PS. I DON'T think that about you, as I don't know you -it is just an illustration for my point.

PPS FYI Everyone who has an FCI or AKC pedigree can trace their dog back to Horand.


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

Kristen Cabe said:


> I do not think many of his puppies - at least not the ones that go to owners that post to the Legends board - go to working homes. But I could be wrong.


Hi Kristen, 
Percentage wise, I don't think many puppies from working bloodlines go to working homes. So that leaves the dilemma of what to do with culls. Snap their necks, or maybe find another way - perhaps by marketing one's dogs by drawing attention to what first attracts - the visual. THEN can the whole picture be presented and hopefully embraced.
Win-win-win - For the puppy who is maybe not enough for work and/or breeding, for the breeder who can finance his program, for the breed who gains another enthusiast.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Then the breeding emphasis becomes first and foremost for appearance, which IMO it has, in the case of this particular breeder.

Regardless of past accomplishments, what does he hope to achieve today? I think his background makes his current efforts seem even less excuseable, and being a total jerk is not even relevant, though I'd agree.

Probably shouldn't even have commented about him, but _if it's a working dog you want_, he's not a breeder I'd fit in that category. If you disagree with that, then perhaps I've been fooled.


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

Hello Mr. Ehret,

I took the liberty of perusing your website, and note that only one of your males appears to have a working title, and none of your females (with the exception of the jr herding title, which if I am not mistaken is in a completely different style of herding than the tending done in HGH so I am not sure it holds any more relevance than say an agility or AKC obedience degree).

It appears that all of Mr. Lino's breeding stock are SchH titled, which is still the working title carried by most dogs who pass the breed survey.

So who is it that is breeding working GSDs?


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

It annoys me when people pick on old timers , hah, hah, me being one.

Have a look at his achievement page Daryl, could you please list YOUR achievements in service dogs or dog sport for us? What are you training your current stock to do?

http://www.vomlinmarc.com/html/about_german_shepherds.html


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Steve's a good dude, old school as it gets.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Suddenly it's about me is it? I've imported several already titled dogs to breed with (just like Mr. Lino does). No, my puppies aren't titled, and they weren't intentionally produced with their untitled parents, either. But, they most definitely are of working quality, and will continue to be worked. I'm not marketing anything, I just appreciate the working dog.

I'm not at all attacking the "old guy", though it amazes me the people that come screaming to his defense time after time. I absolutely have nothing against his dogs, but doubt their abilities for anyone who wants a working dog, and question the genetic health of the lines he has chosen.

If you can wade through all the comments about pigment and structure, he has some interesting views on temperament, some I agree with and some I don't. But in the end, what are his pups accomplishing that tells you the OP can find what he wants? I'm not selling anything and haven't for a couple years, so leave me out of it.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

It's not about you , but you made it about you. 

If you were into dogs in the 80s you would have heard of Steve. He loves tough dogs, I don't know anything about his current stock these days though. 

Daryl if I wanted a tough, no nonsense son of a bi*** GSD, I'd be speaking to Steve judging by what he has owned in the past.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

James Degale said:


> It's not about you , but you made it about you.
> 
> If you were into dogs in the 80s you would have heard of Steve. He loves tough dogs, I don't know anything about his current stock these days though.
> 
> Daryl if I wanted a tough, no nonsense son of a bi*** GSD, I'd be speaking to Steve judging by what he has owned in the past.


From your questions directed at me, how could I leave them unanswered, as irrelevant to the topic as they are?

Sure, he's owned some strong dogs in the past, many of us have. Does that make a person a consistent breeder for working ability? His experience is no doubt an asset to his marketing and understanding of the breed, but I don't know that he is successfully producing that with his more limited breeding experience. Like I said, I might be mistaken.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

*About Us:*

Here is his about us page. I am a newbie to dogsports persay, but doesn't seem too shabby to me, if it is accurate.

We have been breeding working German Shepherds since 1962 and have been members of the United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USA) since 1980. Our experience and dedication to this breed speaks for itself:

STEVE LINO
* Recipient of USA’s Sports Medal in gold
* Member of USA’s first breed advisory council, developing a breed registry in the U.S. for German Shepherd dogs which used the European type guidelines for breeding. This registry was later approved and endorsed by the German Parent Club (SV)
* Past Regional Director for the Southeastern US, working with Schutzhund Clubs in training, organization and paperwork as well as scheduling and approval of foreign and domestic trial judges 
* Past Breed Warden for the S.E. Region 
** Winner of the 1989 North American Schutzhund III Championship
* Southeast Regional Schutzhund III Champion
* Mid-East Regional Schutzhund III Champion
* 3 time member of USA’s World Championship team (WUSV), competing for the U.S. in the German Shepherd World Championship in Europe:
1987 – St. Gallen, Switzerland
1989 – Maribor, Yugoslavia
1990 – Warrme, Belgium*
* Past Training director for the Mid-Florida Schutzhund Club
* Operated a Police Service Dog Training School in Sebastian, Florida. This course was approved by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement
* Trained dogs and their handlers for a Federal Nuclear Power Plant, to be used as narcotics detection dogs
* Contributing Editor for Dog Sport Magazine, on the German Shepherd dog
* Trained thousands of dogs for AKC obedience, tracking, security, personal protection, narcotics detection, police service and schutzhund.

DEE LINO
* *Competed on a National Level in Schutzhund III*
* Titled dogs in AKC obedience
* *Southeast Regional Schutzhund III Champion*
* Retired the travel trophy for High Female Handler in the Southeast Region, winning it 3 years in succession
* Past President of the Mid-Florida Schutzhund Club
* Past Editor of the "Southeasterner" Regional Newsletter


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Not shabby at all, yet makes him a breeder of good working dogs how? His experience definitely adds to his potential as a breeder, I just wonder why we don't see definitive results.

If the OP or anyone dedicated enough wants to take a chance on his pups, go for it! But, you could lessen your risk for a dud, by choosing from a long list of dedicated working dog breeders whose pups have proven they can do the work. You want a strong dog? Go for a breeder like Karthago, Tiekerhook, Conneforde, Vikar, Policia or others that are known for producing that.

Just how many accomplished handlers and sportsmen have proven to be all that great at breeding? Very very few, in my opinion. His target audience or market is not what I'd consider the working dog crowd, simply that the workingdog bloodlines finds its appeal in their hearts and imaginations.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Point taken.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Probably shouldn't even have commented about him, but _if it's a working dog you want_, he's not a breeder I'd fit in that category. If you disagree with that, then perhaps I've been fooled.


You've never even spoken to the guy, you've never seen him or his dogs work and worse of all you can publically discredit him?

To me that's pretty low. 

If you have the confidence to advice a newbie NOT to get their working dog from a kennel just by information you think you have gleaned from a website then YOU better be PREPARED for others to scrutinise your kennel and your achievements. Fair is fair. 

I think you have landed yourself in a bit of sh*t. Because Steve is a well known and respected breeder whom I'd trust to give me an opinion on a working dog prospect. You on the other hand have 1000+ posts on a forum and have dabbled in a bit of schutzhund and herding without any success. Your website is notable for the lack of any achievements whatsoever. 

Also you say you have owned tough dogs, do tell??!!! I remember working the miner bars in Sheffield in the 80s with Bob my dog going back on Olderhill and Kirschental lines. We regularly cleared out pubs on the weekends. Now that was a tough dog. My Auntie Margaret had a Jack Russell who would pick fight with my working GSDs, he was tough! A bit of herding on the weekends...I don't THINK SO mate.

If a newbie was in the market for a dog I'd advice them to go and speak to Steve anyday even if they don't get one of his. Rather than be fed bullsh*t by you.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Nice one Daryl, ****in with the OLD school and incurring the wrath. Been there, done that. Don't give up if you think he is bullshit, then say so. I think people need to be called out every once in a while to keep the edges sharp.

Tom Smith, other than a chick breeder, who I am sure would love to spend time with you discussing recipes, I think I would be disgusted with you as well. LOL Really ?? Really ?? You are mad because the guy didn't want to talk *** shit with you ??


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I understand how old he is, hell, probably trained his last dog when I was knee high. I've talked with him, corresponded with him, but not seen his dogs. Don't care to see them. Why? I'm not appreciating his dogs for his experience, or condemning them for his attitude. They really just don't interest me, is all.

My perception of his breeding stems more from his client's experience, who aren't doing jack with his dogs. Anyone looking for a pup from him should look at that point of view. It's the "responsible thing to do". If that's unreasonable, then inform me otherwise.

We can probably all agree, there's no such thing as a "sure thing", but on the "relative scale", that's not where I'd want to place my bet. Keep in mind, just one guy's opinion, and I'm entitled to have one, and highly doubt it's mine alone to have.

I have, on the other hand, seen numerous vandenheuvel dogs that he bellyaches about, and can offer a better informed and equally unbiased opinion of them in work or health, if asked.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Schutzhund GSD people are weird!


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Schutzhund GSD people are weird!


Not all of us are weird. lol lol lol I'll stick to my GSDs from a little known breeder that has great lines, produces decent dogs and is consistent in her breedings. There is one other local breeder(CJ Neubert) that I'd get a working dog from. Other than that, I'll travel to get mine. 

You know, anymore, I don't care if the dog has titles, as long as it can work and can prove to me that it can work and has good health testing. I personally would not buy from them because they don't show enough recent dogs working, I don't care if they are titled but if the dog can't work, what good is it? 

Courtney


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Schutzhund GSD people are weird!


And it appears to me that any one that has any sort of a little fart of a ring title on there dog will drop trow and breed. :lol: :sad:


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> And it appears to me that any one that has any sort of a little fart of a ring title on there dog will drop trow and breed. :lol: :sad:


 
Why not?

Impressive.........:-\"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E09xVRKc6Cg


The Cows and Horses in the background have more drive....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: And it appears to me that any one that has any sort of a little fart of a ring title on there dog will drop trow and breed. 

Or, we could just all do Sch and train for a year straight to get a pisser of a score in 2, I am pretty sure the brevet would have crushed you. That WAS the only trial you did, or was there another you didn't mention ??

Talk about a fart title. Shit is the same every time and you can't score for shit. Really ?? Really ?? 

Breed the dog you have, lets see what happens when he drops trow as you say.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Why not?
> 
> Impressive.........:-\"
> 
> ...


Like someone with 1/2 clue would get a working/sport dog out of that cripple/caricature or any thing like that.
I watched over 70 German Shepherds at the USA Nationals this year there may have been 2 or 3 black and tans TOTAL and of those 2 or 3 dogs only there color faintly resembled that dog in your video you idiot. 
Its only a matter of time it hasn't happened already before some stupid ass handler and judge come together and the first Sieger dog get a Schutzhund and ring title.
Be careful your only one movie or tv show away from that sorry ass joke.
The dobe and the Rottweiler are all but gone I've been around long enough to watch it happen.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

kyle, that video makes me sad for my breed of choice, and breeders whose dog's Koer report says "pronounced,willl out". ridiculous, these showlines dogs. 

but there's a better vid if you can find it of the same sieger show where the dogs are running around peeing on the trees, running past the decoy to GET to the trees to pee, etc. very sad as well. but an entirely different topic, IMO.

to the OP: i have no great experience in any sport or training dogs for it, however, i do love the LOOKS of steve's dogs. i like the bloodlines he uses, though i know nothing about the close-up dogs in them as far as REAL working ability (he has some good if not great kennels there). i know he imports them titled and doesn't work them from there except to breed. i don't know of any pups he's bred that have done much as far as sports work, but i don't really keep an eye on it.

my own bottom line: if i had the $$, i would certainly look a LOT closer at his breedings. and that means not only his males/females, but their sibs, and offspring to see what they've accomplished. it means a lot of time, but if you get the pup you want, well worth it.

i personally don't have the $$, but if you do, then DO THE RESEARCH.

me, i went for a breeder that works their dogs every single day, titles them, knows exactly the strengths/weaknesses in the breeding, and tells me. and they know me as well. now MY job is to take the dog and do my best with him so they can tell what they're producing (at least a little, given my faults as a handler/trainer). make sense?


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Like someone with 1/2 clue would get a working/sport dog out of that cripple/caricature or any thing like that.
> I watched over 70 German Shepherds at the USA Nationals this year there may have been 2 or 3 black and tans TOTAL and of those 2 or 3 dogs only there color faintly resembled that dog in your video you idiot.
> Its only a matter of time it hasn't happened already before some stupid ass handler and judge come together and the first Sieger dog get a Schutzhund and ring title.
> Be careful your only one movie or tv show away from that sorry ass joke.
> The dobe and the Rottweiler are all but gone I've been around long enough to watch it happen.


 

Like I said, Schutzhund GSD people are weird. ;-)

Hey, those are your people...

Isn't a Seiger show the best of the best? :-k


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: And it appears to me that any one that has any sort of a little fart of a ring title on there dog will drop trow and breed.
> 
> Or, we could just all do Sch and train for a year straight to get a pisser of a score in 2, I am pretty sure the brevet would have crushed you. That WAS the only trial you did, or was there another you didn't mention ??
> 
> ...


No we got our1 earlier in the year 96-83-94=273 got 83 in ob with no formal dumb bell work on my dog if that tells you any thing I have seldom "never with Jett "trialed on my home field or my club helpers other than a BH with any of my dogs.
I have never considered breeding any of my dogs though I could have prolly payed for a year of collage for one of my kids with breeding's from my Rottweiler. Speepking of Rottweilers dident I here you mention you breed 50 Rottweiler litters I dont recall hearing your name back then I may have forgotten what was the name aghain of your kennel?
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :mrgreen:


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Like I said, Schutzhund GSD people are weird. ;-)
> 
> Hey, those are your people...
> 
> Isn't a Seiger show the best of the best? :-k


Yes Kyle it sure is.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Yes Kyle it sure is.


Just Yanking your Chain Mike

WTF is Up with the Vikings though? :-o


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Kyle Sprag said:


> Just Yanking your Chain Mike
> 
> WTF is Up with the Vikings though? :-o


Down by 7 looking a little better :neutral:


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> But, you could lessen your risk for a dud, by choosing from a long list of dedicated working dog breeders whose pups have proven they can do the work. You want a strong dog? Go for a breeder like Karthago, Tiekerhook, Conneforde, Vikar, Policia or others that are known for producing that.


Cursory google search:
http://www.voneintzeshepherds.com/47892.html
http://www.absolutek9.ca/our_dogs.htm

Isn't that an UNTITLED Tiekerhook male on your kennel website? So I would think that YOU of all people would PERSONALLY be aquainted with the black hole of do-nothingness most working line puppies even from the best of kennels are destined for.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

ann schnerre said:


> kyle, that video makes me sad for my breed of choice, and breeders whose dog's Koer report says "pronounced,willl out". ridiculous, these showlines dogs.
> 
> but there's a better vid if you can find it of the same sieger show where the dogs are running around peeing on the trees, running past the decoy to GET to the trees to pee, etc. very sad as well. but an entirely different topic, IMO.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwg8dDOSj0I&feature=related

There was some tough mofo's in this group. One put the decoy out for the rest of the day.........


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwg8dDOSj0I&feature=related
> 
> There was some tough mofo's in this group. One put the decoy out for the rest of the day.........


LMAO, my favorite video! 
Always thought http://www.jango.com/ml?artist=LynyrdSkynyrd&title=GimmeThreeSteps would make a good soundtrack to that fiasco, fits when you play them together...


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

that would be a GREAT soundtrack


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I have never considered breeding any of my dogs though I could have prolly payed for a year of collage for one of my kids with breeding's from my Rottweiler. Speepking of Rottweilers dident I here you mention you breed 50 Rottweiler litters I dont recall hearing your name back then I may have forgotten what was the name aghain of your kennel?

I didn't sell to pet owners. LOL


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## Sherry Spivey (Sep 7, 2009)

Of all the comments registered, very few had to do with the actual dogs. I have seen several of his dogs in the local area. I live half an hour north of him. I have not in the last six years seen him show any of his dogs in the schutzhund sport. Ran across him at one training venue that I did not return to. Him personally, arrogant and not personable, but hey all of us have character faults. 

I had one of his dogs in the agility class that I teach and it was a fairly nice dog. Not super drive but seemed to have stable temperament. Another very nicely pigmented pup is so timid the girl that owns it is having trouble getting out of the novice ring. The dog jumps if a leaf blows by. Also, it is built funny, very tall and leggy, funny pointy head. One other pup was with a woman looking for a schutzhund dog, saw the dog at 18 mos. and never again. The woman shows up from time to time to watch trials, but without the dog. I think most of his pups go to pet homes as I do not see them in the local schutzhund community but rather at agility trials and obedience classes, etc.

I personally would look at other kennels, but that's just based on my impressions from the dogs I have seen from his breedings. I could put up with his personality if I were impressed with his dogs, which I was not.


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## Sherry Spivey (Sep 7, 2009)

Also, if you look at Steve's list of accomplishments I think 1990 was the last big thing. 19 years without showing dogs might put you a little out of touch. My understanding is that he imports the dogs titled and again, he does not do any local training and is not involved with any of the local clubs, DVG or USA. People know of him, but most haven't seen him in years.

Talking to people who are active in sport and police dog work, things have changed a lot in the last 20 years. I would prefer to get my advice from someone active currently, like Phil Hoelcher who is just a couple of hours south of here and can certainly recommend working dog breeders in the area or send you to someone reliable to import from. 

I think the guy was doing a good job to check into where he is getting his puppy from. I have certainly been there as a newbie and ended up with the wrong dog. It is very sad and frustrating to start off with the wrong dog for both the dog and the person.


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## Stuart Stuart (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks for the information. I never thought that looking for a puppy would be so hard.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Wait till you get it and realize you are gonna be messing up a LOT. That is when panic sets in. Good times.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Jeff is so right Stuart. Just when you get one thing fixed then you have to go and fix what you messed up on something else. Good times for real.


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