# Why Are German Shepherds/Dutch Shepherds/Belgian Malinois Used Instead of.......



## Thomas Johnson (Nov 29, 2009)

Why are the breeds in the title used more than almost any other breed for police/military/PP type work? Instead of breeds like these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBLftRGdaMM

10.) Boerboel
9.) Bully Kutta
8.) Serbian Defensive Dog
7.) Neopolitan Mastiff (old type)
6.) Komondor
5.) South Russian Ovcharka
4.) Miortic
3.) Cuacasian Ovcharka
2.) Turkish Kangal Dog or Anatolian shepherd
1.) Central Asian Ovcharka


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## Tamara Villagomez (Nov 28, 2009)

That was a nice Boerboel that was on there!! I would think speed, agility, brains would be the reason ..some of those breeds listed would be too protective to work in police/military I would think...Im could be wrong just my opinion...


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Because the breeds on that list have mainly hype as opposed to proven working abilities. 

I'll give an example using myself so hopefully no one gets offended. I have a Cane Corso. As far as a companion animal, he's great. Relatively mellow but athletic enough to jog with me for a few miles or run alongside my bike. However, he has shit for drives. Our cat has more prey drive than he does. What he does have is an intimidating appearance. A lot of people who are into the molosser, bully, and rare breeds assume that because the dogs look badass they would make great working or personal protection dogs. 

I get into arguments all the time with corso people who "are sure that these dogs could do schutzhund" or "know that Duke would protect me if needed." However, they never actually work or even test their dogs. There are people who do work some of the dogs on your list. I recall reading about a Schutzhund titled Boerboel a while ago and there are a couple titled corsi, but that's certainly a rarity. 

There are some breeders in the off breeds that are trying to breed for working ability, but they're the minority. Even if they were successful, who would they sell the dogs to? Their main clientele couldn't handle a high drive dog.

When you strip away the romanticized history, there is little hard evidence to support calling these breeds working breeds.


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## Andrew Rowley (Nov 3, 2008)

While these breeds are super for property protection, flock gaurding etc they have certain common charateristics. While they are good at protecting their property and family they are not good away from the comfort of their area. 
See the thread that was on here a while back on the breeds 2 and 3. While aggressive towards strangers appraoching their land etc once taken away from their home they loose the confidence. 
Also like the rott i would imagine they are late to mature in comparison to malis.
These are hte reason i would think of that they are not used widely.


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

I have to answer your question with a question.

Question: What is it that every one of those breads does not have?

Answer: PRAY DRIVE!!!!!


This is all opinion, but "I think the Rottweiler should have been #1 and it's not even on the list! I would also much rather have a Cane Corso then any of those dogs. There were 2 or 3 that are good on that list. Most of them are crap!


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## Dennis Jones (Oct 21, 2009)

Thomas Johnson said:


> Why are the breeds in the title used more than almost any other breed for police/military/PP type work? Instead of breeds like these....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBLftRGdaMM
> 
> ...


 
well one of the most obvious reasons is the dogs you list won't fit in the back of a patrol car, hard to transport and huge turds


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

2 words Hart Attack


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

dennis jones said:


> well one of the most obvious reasons is the dogs you list won't fit in the back of a patrol car, hard to transport and huge turds


\\:d/ =d>\\:d/=d>


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

That damn Carl Semencic had me fooled for a good number of years with his 'world of fighting dogs' and 'gladiator dogs' B.S. books


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

hi thomas--i don't see an "introduction", so tell us a bit about yourself,dogs, what you're "into" as far as working dogs,etc.,etc....

re: op, i'm with dennis, plus, those breeds aren't readily available (in the US), it's a numbers game for LE/MWD. there simply aren't enough of them, and they don't tend to have the drives required. IMO.

and haven't we gone down this road before? use "search" thomas--it's your friend.


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## kevin holford (Apr 11, 2009)

Size, price $$$$, slow to mature to add to what was said.


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## Thomas Johnson (Nov 29, 2009)

ann schnerre said:


> hi thomas--i don't see an "introduction", so tell us a bit about yourself,dogs, what you're "into" as far as working dogs,etc.,etc....
> 
> re: op, i'm with dennis, plus, those breeds aren't readily available (in the US), it's a numbers game for LE/MWD. there simply aren't enough of them, and they don't tend to have the drives required. IMO.
> 
> and haven't we gone down this road before? use "search" thomas--it's your friend.


There's an introduction. I have no experiencing in training or raising a working dog other than growing up with jack russell terriers from suspected working lines but no papers to prove that. I will be dediccated to reading/watching anything I can to better my chances of training my next dog which I've decided to be a GSD. I'm going to be working in a not so good area with a friend of mine,

I'm going to need a dog that does the following

1.) Will not back down from a challenge(attack anyone/anything besides kids[might be hard] that tries to enter the property/car.
2.) A dog that knows 2 commands of fight commands.

"Cookie" which means a good person, expect cookies from.
"Guard" which means will stand ground, if person does cross the dogs line, the dog will attack.

3) Ofcourse a companion.

I'm willing in the next few years spend 4-5k on a GSD puppy import or breeder from here that has the drive to attack. I would pick a dutchie hands down but they're too high energy type dogs/same goes for malinois.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Thomas Johnson said:


> I'm willing in the next few years spend 4-5k on a GSD puppy import or breeder from here that has the drive to attack.


Your going to have every breeder on the board trying to sell you a pup if your willing to pay that much.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas Johnson said:


> There's an introduction. I have no experiencing in training or raising a working dog other than growing up with jack russell terriers from suspected working lines but no papers to prove that. I will be dediccated to reading/watching anything I can to better my chances of training my next dog which I've decided to be a GSD. I'm going to be working in a not so good area with a friend of mine,
> 
> I'm going to need a dog that does the following
> 
> ...


How about a little more information about your self Thomas and why a dog like this is needed before we go on some sort of goose chase for ya. Oh one more thing will ya have cash.


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## Thomas Johnson (Nov 29, 2009)

I live in San Fransisco and I'm going to be moving down south, I don't know where but it has a very high crime rate, I would rather my dog bite/disarm someone than me shoot them and end up getting prison for life.

This isn't anytime soon, it's within a 2-3 years.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas Johnson said:


> I live in San Fransisco and I'm going to be moving down south, I don't know where but it has a very high crime rate, I would rather my dog bite/disarm someone than me shoot them and end up getting prison for life.
> 
> This isn't anytime soon, it's within a 2-3 years.


How soon before the move? the reason I ask is if its a pup you want its going to take a couple of years of boot camp like training to get the cyborg you describe.


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## Thomas Johnson (Nov 29, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> How soon before the move? the reason I ask is if its a pup you want its going to take a couple of years of boot camp like training to get the cyborg you describe.


For the highest price how much would that cost me for the training for a single dog for the Reasons above.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas Johnson said:


> For the highest price how much would that cost me for the training for a single dog for the Reasons above.


There would have to be a assessment done on the animal the trainer would then be able to give you a ballpark once he knows what hes got to work with and the extent of the training you require.


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## Thomas Johnson (Nov 29, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> There would have to be a assessment done on the animal the trainer would then be able to give you a ballpark once he knows what hes got to work with and the extent of the training you require.


Ah, thank you for your time....everyone. It's much appreciated.

If anyone has any information pertaining to breeders, to not clog this thread that doesn't belong to the thread.


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

thos are mastifs, not working breeds.
they do not want to work for ther handler.
they mature extremly slowly.
to big.
to slow
to week
to stupid
culd not track long distenses.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Hi Thomas
The reason that departments and Govt. agencies use Malis, GSDs, and Dutchies is really very simple.
Those are the breeds that have the highest %s of dogs who will work to their standard.
There are so many reasons that the dogs on your list are not used.........
I will put some of those reasons here in no particular order of importance:
1) very low drive to work
2) low endurance
3) oversized
4) thin nerves (very defensive)
5) no longegity and poor health (giant body types break down quickly)
6) not enough agility
7) harder to train (harder to motivate)
There are many reasons why these breeds are talked about only by people who really dont understand the inherant qualities required for real police and military work.

Why are Husaberg motorcycles not used in the top levels of motocross?
Why are Tasco scopes not used in the top levels of benchrest shooting?
Why are Kia's not used for top levels of NASCAR?
Why are Poodles not used in the top levels of Earth Dog trials?
Why are Kel Tec's not used in the top levels of NRA Bullseye competition?
Why do professional loggers not use Poulan chainsaws?

I could go on and on, but I hope you get my point.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Why are Tasco scopes not used in the top levels of benchrest shooting?


Hey!!! now youve gone too far Mr. Suttle. I have a Tasco scope.........=;


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I think you have to remember one thing first. The Malinois and German Shepherd Club (Working Dog Section) have done more for their canines than any other dog in the way of health. They're checked for Hip and Elbow Displasia, and in both clubs there are some very good breeders, breeding for sport, police dog, anti-terrorist dogs, plus all the therapy dogs that are being used.

This alone should steer you away from the other breeds, in my mind. What's the use of a cumbersome, lazy dog thats active life is over at 5 years. Must not be so, but often is. Go to the breeders of the Molossers. They tell you not to do biting sports with them (although they know nothing about it), do anything energetic, because they know their breeds won't stand up to it - they've been (mostly) bred to live in the back yard and, if someone comes to close to the gate, they raise themselves and posture in front of the "would-be" intruder. That's it.

I had a very good Fila Brasileiro from a breeder who bred with health in mind. He was athletic, alert and would have grabbed anyone who tried to get into the house. One of my GSDs is very similar. However, they were/are under strict control. 

A PPD is born and any dog, Molosser, Shepherd, Terrier, whatever, will only be as good as his genes let him!!! And its breeder is aware of what h/she is breeding and can advise you of the temperament of the dogs in his or her breeding programme.



When you buy an "exotic" breed and something "goes wrong", you are out on a limb.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas there's a guy on here who may be able to help you find a dog and give you the training to meet your requirements his name is Jeff Oehlsen this mofo is connected hes in San Antonio he often frequents this board and is knowledge and skills are legend send him a PM with what you got in mind.
I should mention he can be a dick don't be put off by his abrasiveness if at first he gets testy its prolly cause he gets allot of tire kickers and such who ain't serious about dogs pestering him. Let him know your serious and ain't playing or wasting his time.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Thomas there's a guy on here who may be able to help you find a dog and give you the training to meet your requirements his name is Jeff Oehlsen this mofo is connected hes in San Antonio he often frequents this board and is knowledge and skills are legend send him a PM with what you got in mind.
> I should mention he can be a dick don't be put off by his abrasiveness if at first he gets testy its prolly cause he gets allot of tire kickers and such who ain't serious about dogs pestering him. Let him know your serious and ain't playing or wasting his time.


 
That's probably the best idea..... he'll put you straight, he's the best on the board you know just don't be put off if he plays hard to get..... he's not cheap neither but....


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Thomas, send the dog to Scheiber, after two or three months, he will be able to do everything you ask. The only person on here that I think is about the same training level is Butch Cappell. 

Nearly every person on here is an expert on just about every breed of dog you mentioned. There is a guy on here from south afrika who trains boerbels for police depts. 

There is no doubt in my mind that each and every one of the people that posted could teach your dog cookie and guard.

Good luck to you.


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## Thomas Johnson (Nov 29, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Thomas, send the dog to Scheiber, after two or three months, he will be able to do everything you ask. The only person on here that I think is about the same training level is Butch Cappell.
> 
> Nearly every person on here is an expert on just about every breed of dog you mentioned. There is a guy on here from south afrika who trains boerbels for police depts.
> 
> ...


Thank you man, Appreciate the advice.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Thomas Johnson said:


> I live in San Fransisco and I'm going to be moving down south, I don't know where but it has a very high crime rate, I would rather my dog bite/disarm someone than me shoot them and end up getting prison for life.
> 
> You must not be moving to the 'deep south' as we can use lethal force if we feel our life is threatened. We dont have to be assaulted first and respond in self defense. Guns are an extension of our homes and can be carried in our vehicles without special permits. Everyone in my family carries one in our vehicles, and we know how to use them. :lol: Not to say that the dogs wont get 'em first!


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Denise Gatlin said:


> Thomas Johnson said:
> 
> 
> > I live in San Fransisco and I'm going to be moving down south, I don't know where but it has a very high crime rate, I would rather my dog bite/disarm someone than me shoot them and end up getting prison for life.
> ...


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## Thomas Johnson (Nov 29, 2009)

Denise Gatlin said:


> Thomas Johnson said:
> 
> 
> > I live in San Fransisco and I'm going to be moving down south, I don't know where but it has a very high crime rate, I would rather my dog bite/disarm someone than me shoot them and end up getting prison for life.
> ...


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

That's because you live in a communist state...

Hope you realize that if your dog bites someone "unwarranted" you can be charged the same as if you shot them. Good luck proving the dog was in the right. 

Personally, I'd rather blast the f***er than have my dog bite them. Dead people don't testify against you.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Candy Eggert said:


> Denise Gatlin said:
> 
> 
> > God Bless the South :smile:
> ...


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Thomas Johnson said:


> Why are the breeds in the title used more than almost any other breed for police/military/PP type work? Instead of breeds like these....


Thomas,

Try and research breeders of any of those breeds that actually work. Your best bet is to go to a working dog club a/o agitators, working dog events, and see what dogs actually do best and that the decoys tell you can actually do the work. There are some good Molossers out there, so maybe you end up with an American Bulldog or Rottweiler that ends up being just what you want and need. That said, there are Malinois and Dutch Shepherds and GSDs are at the top of sport and security for a reason, and I've seen a few Malinois and Dutchies (less than a lot of folk here), some seemed livable to me, others I could see being better as kennel dogs.

Regardless, that list was more or less crap.

There are some breeders and trainers in California with good reputations. Go check them out personally. Actually spend some time with Malinois, they are not that bad, and there are some people working APBTs and ABs in sport. And don't get fixated on teaching your dog "Cookie" and "Guard." The words you use for commands seem totally arbitrary from what I've seen, and you might want more than just two commands for a protection or sport dog anyway. If you want a protection-trained dog, find out about the training and what they are like in person. A lot of things can get distorted from reality when you just read about them on the Internet. And don't buy a pup for $4K. In my humble opinion, you'd be better off finding a good trainer and a reputable breeder, having them help you find a dog that met your needs, and then spend the other $3K over the next few years on training. But go out, talk to agitators/decoys, trainers, and breeders, get better acquainted with the dogs and the training methodology, find out what's real and what's Internet hype and what you actually want and need and go from there.

-Cheers


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Candy Eggert said:
> 
> 
> > American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God.
> ...


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

This thread is so chocked full of stupid it's even lost it's comic value.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Thomas Johnson said:


> Denise Gatlin said:
> 
> 
> > HA, I wish castle law protected us in California, but if you shoot someone here even if it's on your property, you're looking at life if you can't pull it off.
> ...


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

David Frost said:


> Candy Eggert said:
> 
> 
> > American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God.
> ...


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Denise Gatlin said:


> Thomas Johnson said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, you meant south California. Hell, you need to move. Sounds like you have absolutely NO options so far as self defense. How do you live like that? :-k:roll: Oh, yeh right, it is the Brady gun law where only the bad guys have guns. So your dog would be sacrificed while you haul it? Like I said, you need to move. We can shoot and dont even need to drag the body in. :wink: In our mid-sized town, over the past six months there have been four such 'justifiable' shootings. If the bad guys point a gun, they better shoot fast or they WILL be shot. And no trespassing MEANS NO TRESPASSING here. \\/
> ...


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## Steven Stroupes (Apr 3, 2009)

There was a thread back in the summer about Ovcharkas that was the topic of conversation on this forum for about 6 weeks. I would pull up that thread if you can. There was alot of good discussion amongst all the trash talking.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

My favorite pro-gun story happened in texas a few months back. Old grandpa called 911 to report his neighbors house was being broken into, while on the phone with police he told them he was going over with his gun, dispatcher kept telling him not to go and wait for police. He goes over, confronts, shoots, and kills the guy, and no charges are filed......

No hippy, east/west coast, criminal's rights BS going down in TX


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f30/caucasian-shepherds-ovcharkas-12545/




http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f16/what-good-personal-protection-dog-13041/


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Matt Grosch said:


> My favorite pro-gun story happened in texas a few months back. Old grandpa called 911 to report his neighbors house was being broken into, while on the phone with police he told them he was going over with his gun, dispatcher kept telling him not to go and wait for police. He goes over, confronts, shoots, and kills the guy, and no charges are filed......
> 
> No hippy, east/west coast, criminal's rights BS going down in TX


And God Bless Texas too, where they have the "express lane" for the death penality \\/


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Drew Peirce said:


> This thread is so chocked full of stupid it's even lost it's comic value.


I tried but every one got all gun nutzoid fricken goofy gun nutters:lol:


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

My friend Brandon Wilson has the SchH 3 Boerboel (Zeb). The only SchH3 Boerboel in the US, and he just got his IPO3 recently too. Very, very nice working male.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Extra impressive to do it with an off breed like that. Im still not sure what people have achieved with presas and cane corsos. I thought some american bulldogs have achieved ring titles.


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> Extra impressive to do it with an off breed like that. Im still not sure what people have achieved with presas and cane corsos. I thought some american bulldogs have achieved ring titles.


I've heard of one Sch III corso. I don't know what level of competition it was though.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Still waiting for Francis Metcalf to get a bulldog to ring three. He seems to be the guy that is going to get one there.

There was a bulldog that had a two, and was competing for three. Odin I think.


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> My favorite pro-gun story happened in texas a few months back. Old grandpa called 911 to report his neighbors house was being broken into, while on the phone with police he told them he was going over with his gun, dispatcher kept telling him not to go and wait for police. He goes over, confronts, shoots, and kills the guy, and no charges are filed......
> 
> No hippy, east/west coast, criminal's rights BS going down in TX


Yeah, Texas is a great role model for the rest of the union. :-\"

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/12...d-cuts-thomas-jefferson-out-of-its-textbooks/


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Yep, Odin, I think he had more of a hound-ish look to him. Im surprised more people dont track down these guys and either get a dog from them or from the place they got theirs.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

interesting, 


(his site)


http://www.friendsofthefamily.info/Site/about.html


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> Extra impressive to do it with an off breed like that. Im still not sure what people have achieved with presas and cane corsos. I thought some american bulldogs have achieved ring titles.


The club I belonged to had (at the time) the only Schutzhund II Presa in the country. I think there may have been another since.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> Yep, Odin, I think he had more of a hound-ish look to him.


Koura's Oden:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/american_bulldog/pedigree/578351.html

I don't think he looks too much more houndy than other dogs in the line, but they are more hound-y than a lot of American Bulldogs.









Koura's Oden









CH Hardly Dangerous' Sofie Mae Catcha



> Im surprised more people dont track down these guys and either get a dog from them or from the place they got theirs.


Same here. I think the Bama Boy line of dogs from Larry Koura and Steve Leclerc is pretty well-respected. I don't think there are many of them in sport though. I know Steve Leclerc, Francis Metcalf, Jon Naroditsky of Fala Woods, and Polly Dake of Hardly Dangerous are breeding that line of dogs, but most people aren't seeking out off-breeds to do Ring Sport. There have been a few Bulldog breedings that I thought would get quite a bit more serious interest from working folk that haven't.



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Still waiting for Francis Metcalf to get a bulldog to ring three. He seems to be the guy that is going to get one there.
> 
> There was a bulldog that had a two, and was competing for three. Odin I think.


I think Brad H. just died a little inside. But Francis seems to be doing well with his dogs and the pedigrees look nice. I wish him the best. In reality, it is probably just a matter of time.

What was the scoop with Oden? Did he get the first leg of his FRIII, or just compete at the III level?

-Cheers


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## patrick ganley (Oct 6, 2009)

Thomas Johnson said:


> There's an introduction. I have no experiencing in training or raising a working dog other than growing up with jack russell terriers from suspected working lines but no papers to prove that. I will be dediccated to reading/watching anything I can to better my chances of training my next dog which I've decided to be a GSD. I'm going to be working in a not so good area with a friend of mine,
> 
> I'm going to need a dog that does the following
> 
> ...


 I've got a Dutch who I absolutely love. Because he's mellow in the house and will lay on my lap like a puppy but when it's time to work he's ready to go. Don't count out the Dutchy just yet theres plenty of good people here that can educate you on them. I seee them as the calm before the storm. Good luck


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> The club I belonged to had (at the time) the only Schutzhund II Presa in the country. I think there may have been another since.



Correction;
Boogie is the only Presa in the USA with a Sch II and the only SchII Presa bitch anywhere! 
Thanks Jen! :wink:


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> Extra impressive to do it with an off breed like that. Im still not sure what people have achieved with presas and cane corsos. I thought some american bulldogs have achieved ring titles.


Hey Matt, I have read the Presa De La Arena's Puma and a Presa named Volcan both earned IPO3's. Plus whatever smattering of PSA titles and misc. other titles earned by Red Star people breeding their line of dogs. Francis Metcalf has gotten some Ring titles, Jon Naroditsky has a Brevet in Mondio on his dog Mongo and I believe should be going for his MRI soon, and Oden of course. And there was Brandon Wilson and his Boerboel Zeb (just read about them) getting their IPO3, and Norm's Gordo has a few SchH titles (not sure to what), and Tashi that posts here is, I believe, working to compete with her Boerboels. Then there is a scattering of APBTs and a few Molossers working and doing fairly well for themselves.

Even then, trying to find much past that. As a newb, on the one hand I think it shows that it can be done, even if it's not going to be at the level of the Malinois unless you get some exceptionally good dog a/o good handler a/o trainer. So people shouldn't be down on the off-breeds and there is hope. On the other hand, to list the "Top 10 Protection Dogs" and it's a bunch of Livestock Guardian breeds or rare off-breeds that nobody has heard of or worked, and he German Shepherd, Malinois, Dutch Shepherd, Bouvier, Rottweiler, Reisenschnauzer, and even the American Bulldog don't even make the list? That seems a stretch.

I don't have the experience to pretend to put an order on the top breeds or anything, but that still seems pretty far-fetched. Not that those breeds don't have their place, but I am not buying their ranking system. However, Malinois and Dutchie folk should really be celebrating that interest is getting redirected to other breeds, no?

-Cheers


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I think Brad H. just died a little inside.

His dog has a title ?? I don't see that dog going anywhere. She is a cute dog, but belongs in a show at best.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I think Brad H. just died a little inside.
> 
> His dog has a title ?? I don't see that dog going anywhere. She is a cute dog, but belongs in a show at best.


It was a joke. I am not sure how close or far he is from titling. I've only talked to him once or twice on the phone and some email and forum chatter. He seems like a really nice guy who is seems passionate about his dogs and his sport, and I do wish him the best regardless.

I'm honestly not sure how his female is doing. Maybe she didn't pan out for Mondio. Not totally sure that means she belongs in a show at best, but to be fair I've never seen her and nobody's coming to me for dog evals even if I had. I read he has a male American Bulldog he's working too. Don't believe he's done any trialing with him yet, the dog's probably about a year and a half old so still pretty young for a Bulldog. He seems to be having fun with them from what I hear, and I believe he has said he'll probably get a Malinois at some point too for Mondio.

I don't think Brad's expecting to get III's on his Bulldogs (or most other people though), but he seems to enjoy working them and probably has a pretty good idea of how good they are and where they'll end up. So obviously there's a reason he's most likely getting a Malinois for competing. I can't really be down on American Bulldogs, even if they aren't Malinois. Honestly, I like them both and I do see the differences in my (albeit limited) experience. I think the AB deserves a bit more credit in some instances than they are given. But I can't really refute the number of titles or PDs using Mal's and Dutchies either.

-Cheers


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

David Ruby said:


> What was the scoop with Oden? Did he get the first leg of his FRIII, or just compete at the III level?
> 
> -Cheers


Odin competed at FRIII but never got a passing score. I'm not sure how many times he competed, I think it was just once. So he retired as an FRII. Multiple people have claimed that at that time all you had to do was compete in FRIII to claim the title, but that's not correct. A passing score was 300, now it's 320, and you had to pass to earn the title.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Odin competed at FRIII but never got a passing score. I'm not sure how many times he competed, I think it was just once. So he retired as an FRII. Multiple people have claimed that at that time all you had to do was compete in FRIII to claim the title, but that's not correct. A passing score was 300, now it's 320, and you had to pass to earn the title.


Thanks Kadi. That makes sense considering the conflicting reports on his highest-achieved title.

-Cheers


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

She was very cute as a pup, and I lived with her. She didn't get out of her crate much, but after he moved out, I did clean up her mess that was left behind. I can tell you that the dog would probably do best in a dog show.

I watched her attempt a brevet. I would be suprised if she passed. Nothing there really. I mostly remember her shitting and pissing the crate, and the stench.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Hi Thomas
> The reason that departments and Govt. agencies use Malis, GSDs, and Dutchies is really very simple.
> Those are the breeds that have the highest %s of dogs who will work to their standard.
> There are so many reasons that the dogs on your list are not used.........
> ...


Hit the nail on the head.


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## Toran Scott (Mar 27, 2009)

There are a number of ScHIII AB's, a couple with FR titles and a few MR Brevet's with a guy in the Phillipines with an MR2 on his AB. Francis thought Gubby could have gone FR3 if he hadn't gotten knocked out for a while with illness (lyme disease I think). Francis still has a bulldog he is training but has started a nice Mali as his next comp dog. I know that Marcel Harnois and his g-friend Amy are training bulldogs in MR and have put at least 2 brevets on their dogs but no 1's as of yet. Gesa Fenge in Germany has put multiple ScHIII's on her bulldogs and Lucillano Oliva was hoping to put the first PSA2 on his bulldog Tre this year. AB or Pit would be the only off breed that I would think has some merit for sport and they are still light years from GSD, Dutchie and Mali... then again you'll never see a GSD, Mali, or Dutchie catching wild hogs either. 
Toran


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

There's also a woman Paige Shriver that has a SCHIII bitch and I think a SCHI male bred from that bitch. She works the dogs with Armin Winkler. Pretty fun dogs.


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