# Cleft palates



## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

I’m looking for input from anyone who has/had a Mal with a cleft palate. Did they have any aversion to bite work?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Holy shit, I've never seen that in a pup that survived. If it were me I wouldn't be even asking the question. I'd leave the dog alone.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

It’s cosmetic, he was bottle fed and was kept with litter mates. He is thriving and doing well, eating well. At 7 weeks he is the firecracker out of the bunch. Depending on the degree and care taker, cleft pups live normal lives. I just never came across one on a Malinois. Curious if anyone had ever come across one.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

This is the pup.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Well, then here's what I'd say given your answer. No, I doubt it.

A minor detail,I guess question really. Why was he bottle fed? Large litter perhaps?


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

He was bottle fed because he couldn’t get a good suction on moms nipple because of the cleft. They wanted to make sure no milk was going in his nose, so he was fed separately. He is eating normally right now. 
Thanks for your input! I have not committed to him. I have to think with my head and not with my heart. Lol But at 7-8 weeks, he would be the pick of litter except for his lip.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Being bottle fed is, to my knowledge, the only way the vast majority of pups born with this will survive. 

I've never heard one way or the other about being able to do bite work. 

In my uneducated opinion on the subject the support for the front teeth "might" be compromised with the gap left.

A consultation with a canine dentist/Orthodontist could answer the question better then my "guess".


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Yes, because the palate itself was not compromised they could use a bottle. Another way is tube feeding. Surgery is not an option until they are a few months old so that they can handle anesthesia. If that were the case I believe they would have put him down.
If I was looking for straight detection it would be one thing but bite work is different. Even if it is just cosmetic, as he grows, the level and/or depth of his bite plane may be a factor. If he is uncomfortable it could take the fun out of it and shut him down. 
I’m fortunate in the since that I have easy access to the facility and they keeping four pups to develop their obedience and manners before selling them. 
Should I proceed with him, before commenting I will have a professional exam to confirm it’s cosmetic or otherwise. Lol Right now I’m entertained with watching him lead his siblings confidently into new adventures.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kim, I think keeping a dog with physical OR temperament issues would have to be made on an individual basis by the owner or whoever is in legal possession of the dog at the time. 

There are many people that will do that and many who would not.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Kim, you probably know what I was getting at when I asked why he was bottled fed. I suggested a large litter to offset the possibility that this was thought to be merely cosmetic. The fact that he was bottle fed suggests otherwise. As in, without help he probably would have perished.

That said, I remember something the breeder of my mastiff said. He said he would work to save every pup who needed help because that pup might be the one he was breeding for. In other words he bred for himself first and wouldn't take the chance of losing a single pup for that reason alone. Understand he knew the difference between help and something else necessary.

Anyway, I can tell you this. I've seen the absolutely crazy ass, mind boggling things that my drive stupid Dutch does. If this pup is anything like that and there's no structural flaws in his bone, then I suspect he will work as good and as long as he wants… which probably would be everything he needs to in order to get the job done.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

One more thing. If you take this pup, would you please share his progress with us. I'd like to know how it goes if you do take him. If you did, what exactly would you do with him?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ditto with Nicole!

I think it would be very interesting how this works out if you decide to go ahead with it.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Thank you for y’all input!

My plans is that he would be trained for personal protection, but I do have the opportunity to train him for narcotics or explosive detection. He wouldn’t be involved in sports or LE nor am I a movie star so I don’t actively “need” a PPD. Lol So if he would shut down bite wise, he would still be mentally satisfied with detection. 

My thinking is that if it is cosmetic, it hopefully will not affect his bite. As with any baby Mal, he is pulling and biting any moving object. Now... as he grows or if he needs surgery, it may make bite work uncomfortable for him. But, if he is just my personal dog, I hope he has the heart and confidence to react. Of course that is something only time will tell even with the best of pups, at 7-8 weeks, you can only see a glimpse of their character. Lol that is a whole other post! 

Yes, I believe he would have perished if not bottle fed. He was rescued out of love for an animal, a baby. Hell, I’ve seen them move a family of opossums to save their lives. Lol But I believe that he would not have been able to take in the milk he would need to thrive. 

I think I will bring him to my personal vet next week and get his opinion.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I think your concern is reasonable. I wonder if there's bone loss in the area. It looks like he's missing two teeth so that's why my thought went there.

I was curious about seeing a full frontal, closer pic though. I'd wonder how much this might influence his scenting ability. I suspect not much but I cannot really tell where or the split stops or goes up to.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Excellent point Nicole. 

Hopefully the vet can address any possible scenting issues also.


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