# Breeders ... Bio-Sensor Stressing



## Dee Harrison (Apr 16, 2009)

What tangible differences have you seen in your litters since employing 'bio-sensor stressing'? Have you actually produced more dogs that can handle stress better?


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Three litters for each of three pairings, and no beneficial results experienced.

Sire A X Dam A: without, with, without
Sire A X Dam B: without, with, without
Sire A X Dam C: without, with, without

And many others without.

The third litter of one pair (_without_ ENS), was hands down best litter of the three!

My conclusions: there are other windows of time and exposure to different stimuli that are of greater importance than these _16 days after birth._


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## Dee Harrison (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks Daryl. I asked because I wanted to know if that was something to look for in a breeder. I was reading the book "The Intelligence of Dogs" by Stanley Coren and though he didn't mention ENS by name, he did discuss something that sounded similar. I recalled reading about bio-sensor stressing on a website of one of the forum members. The book was discussing 'Increasing a dog's intelligence' (chap. 12).


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## Guest (May 17, 2009)

Daryl; anyone,

Have you considered what the differences would be between each of the following:

#1. Lone pup, nursed from stationary metal device
#2. Litter mates nursing from said device
#3. Litter mates nursing from disinterested mother
#4. Litter mates nursing from particularly engaging mother
#5. Pup from option one given bio sensor stuff from a human
#6. Pups from option two given bio-sensor stuff from a human

In other words, would you say a doting mother and a gaggle of litter-mates serves the theoretical functions of Bio-sensor stuff, and whatever the human decides to do is a situation of drastically diminished returns?


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I'm just not aware of any "proof" in the techniques, scientific or otherwise, and that sort of makes anyone who utilizes them come off as a bit _superstitious_ to me. Either that, or a sales pitch. Not to say I haven't made the same pitch, but when the proof isn't supported by your personal experience, despite the crazed acclaim, it's time to admit it to yourself.

Intelligence (as in, IQ) is the most scientifically supported hereditarily linked characteristic of all. My guess is, that may make it the _least externally influenced_. I haven't read the book, but the meaning of "intelligence" is probably not what's truly meant to be improved. Improved communication is probably what results are actually measured for success, the dog's _and the handler's_.

Steven, I do believe that what mother nature leaves in her wake, you are empowered to influence _to some degree _in its shaping. I just don't think (specifically) those 16 days are going to make a super dog, and doubt even half of all superior dogs today were 16day-ENS'd at all.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I have tried the hands on approach and as a result, they have been raised solely by the parents for most all the time I have been breeding.

What I want to know is how do they determine they have made a particular dog smarter than he would have been anyway? They would would have to have assumed he was dumber from birth which would be impossible to do.

I think Daryl hit the nail on the head in as much as it isn't so much making them smarter as it is maybe more to the human/dog acceptance.....which a good dog shouldn't need. I think most oppf this mumbo jumbo is designed to cover weak dogs personally. Makes them more saleable for sure if that is your only goal. We all produce our share of "pets but some of us accept the fact you just aren't going to make a sows ear into a silk purse.


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## Dee Harrison (Apr 16, 2009)

Bio-sensor stressing is said to effect the following:
1. improved cardiovascular performance,
2. stronger heartbeat,
3. stronger adrenal glands,
4. more tolerance to stress, and,
5. greater resistance to disease.

Nos. 1 and 4 are the only ones that I could imagine that would be noticeable immediately. The other 3 would seem to be long term.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Which makes the "proof" for the claims all the less believable, but I myself was only refering to #4, as the OP states.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Dee Harrison said:


> Bio-sensor stressing is said to effect the following:
> 1. improved cardiovascular performance,
> 2. stronger heartbeat,
> 3. stronger adrenal glands,
> ...


Think about it Dee, how do they know they have improved anything unless there was a magical formula they can predict the pups cardiovascular as an adult, how strong the heartbeat will be as an adult, how strong the adrenal glands will be on the adult, how much tolerance to stress they will have as an adult, what kind of resistance they will have as an adult? They don't know any of this so how can the say they have improved anything? It is BS.


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## Guest (May 18, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Think about it Dee, how do they know they have improved anything unless there was a magical formula they can predict the pups cardiovascular as an adult, how strong the heartbeat will be as an adult, how strong the adrenal glands will be on the adult, how much tolerance to stress they will have as an adult, what kind of resistance they will have as an adult? They don't know any of this so how can the say they have improved anything? It is BS.


I don't know who "they" are in this particular context, but studies of disposable critters with high turn-over (like rats) is usually where things begin and analogies are drawn.

This was a good show:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

To reduce as much environmental variance as possible, which is about impossible with dogs. They might get a good helper on a bad day, missed a meal, handled by a different guy, and so on... that they could never be equally compared to all the rest. The biosensor program all seems like speculation and theory to me. My gut instinct is to disregard it as hype, write it off as material for a new bestseller for "impressionable" people, who will _trust without verifying_.


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## Dee Harrison (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm going to see if I can find the original study results done by the army and whether or not they continue to use the 'bio-sensor stressing' in their breeding program. The original study and it's results should be online somewhere. Oh well, happy hunting .


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Dee Harrison said:


> I'm going to see if I can find the original study results done by the army and whether or not they continue to use the 'bio-sensor stressing' in their breeding program. The original study and it's results should be online somewhere. Oh well, happy hunting .


 You might try doing a search on Land Warfare Laboratory, Dr. Castleberry, Bio-dog and Super dog. That might help get some information on the old bio program. I did pilot project for DOD back in early ' 71 training an explosives detector on food reward. An unheard of practice at that time. The dog's name was Otto. he was a bio dog (dual purpose). The dog ended up with Maryland State Police. 

DFrost


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## Dee Harrison (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks DFrost. I've read a number of your post on this forum and another. Very informative.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Dee Harrison said:


> I'm going to see if I can find the original study results done by the army and whether or not they continue to use the 'bio-sensor stressing' in their breeding program. The original study and it's results should be online somewhere. Oh well, happy hunting .


Hi,

Was wondering if you managed to come up with anything yet on this study?

You see quite a lot of breeders state they employ the biosensor programme when advertising their pups.... I wondered if it was a marketing guise. 

Would be really interested to hear what you turned up if anything.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

The bio sensor test are on the net somewhere because I read them. As I was reading all this profound stuff, it struck me that it was the same stressors you will see watching a litter of pups in the whelping box with mom. Mom rolls them over to clean their butts, They fight for a teat during feeding and roll off upside down between to others that are feeding, They end up in all kinds of situations and positions from day one. You will see a close correlation to what will happen naturally and the bio sensor stuff. Some one was just making a name claiming a great break through in how to raise a dog by mimicing what happens naturally anyway.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It is like that study that Butch put up. Since no one else will prove them to be goofs, they write the paper, and it is a win for them. There is no way to prove that the bio sensor works, or it doesn't. I never saw anything but higher thresholds than normal.......like anyone wants that. 

I do a lot with pups anyway, as it is the whole point to give someone a pup that sorta knows sit and down and "kennel" and sorta knows that going to the bathroom is outside, and not wherever. It is just doing the right thing. I just don't do it from day one, as that is retarded.

I am sure that someone is now a "doctor" from having wrote on the subject. I would just love to see how they "proved" that it was better, as that is one of the subjects that must be addressed.


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

I know this a a little off the bio-sensor question but have any of you breeders noticed any correlation between how well a pup/ young dog tolerates stress and how soon it's serparated from the pack/litter? I've seen breeders who sepearate the pups at around 4 weeks old to get them to "stand on their own" so to speak, believing that if you take away the strength of the pack you really see what a pup's got. This seems to make sense but admittedly I haven't researched this.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

When I have seen this, it is with pit owners, and it makes the dog bond strongly to humans. It causes problems with weaker owners, as the pup does not get bite inhibition like it would from other pups. It also does not see dogs in the right way. Not saying that pits ever do, but this is where I have seen it happen the MOST. 

On a side note, the other breeds have been disasters as well. Same problems. Had a lot of these in OB classes. Imagine that.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

It's all quite interesting stuff in that the articles I have come across on the net state; whilst stress stimulus can be beneficial, too much can retard development.

How would breeders know they were getting it right anyway?

I've only ever bred two litters in my life, one gsd and one jrt, gave it up as a bad crack. I'm on the look out for another pup at the moment and the biosensor programme seems to pop up a lot.... tends to tickly my imagination a wee bit. It's got me thinking, do I move in a little closer or do I just stay well clear mm.....


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> The bio sensor test are on the net somewhere because I read them. As I was reading all this profound stuff, it struck me that it was the same stressors you will see watching a litter of pups in the whelping box with mom. Mom rolls them over to clean their butts, They fight for a teat during feeding and roll off upside down between to others that are feeding, They end up in all kinds of situations and positions from day one. You will see a close correlation to what will happen naturally and the bio sensor stuff. Some one was just making a name claiming a great break through in how to raise a dog by mimicing what happens naturally anyway.


 
This makes a lot of sense to me.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

My impression is, that there's still no conclusive evidence, and even if such evidence is _never provided,_ it will probably always remain an interesting topic for study. BUT, Adee Schoon, the Senior Scientist & Advisor to the Netherlands National Police states that; the Norwegian People’s Aid Global Training Center (NPA-GTC) Breeding program is at least utilizing control groups to perhaps settle it for once and for all, beginning as of a year ago.

International Working Dog Breeding Association

IWDBC 2007 Summary



> Early neurological stimulation
> Presenter: Carmen Battaglia
> Date/Time: Tuesday 6 November 14:35 - 14:55
> Surprising as it may seem, it isn't capacity that explains the differences that exist between individuals. These differences
> ...



IWDBC 2009 Summary



> Tuesday 12 May 2009 / 11.00 – 11.40
> Adee SCHOON (NLD)
> Investigating the effects of Early Neurological Stimulation.
> 40’ Presentation
> ...


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Many thanks for posting that info Daryl, I had a look but wasn't able to access the 2009 summary off the IWDBC.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Here's a link
http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/0/43/98/70/Programmes-congres/Programme-Congr-s-IWDBA-2009.pdf


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Lots of interesting stuff in there, many thanks for the link.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I found this. Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.vonfalconer.com/puppy.html


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I've been doing a more casual version of the ENS. I haven't noticed a difference in the litters due to ENS only a difference due to pairings and bloodlines used. However, what I have noticed is that I can pick out the differences in the puppies' temperaments early by handling them so much. 

An example, was a litter of Beaucerons this year, we had one that would go rigid, stiff during the ENS during the first couple weeks. He later loosened up and adjusted, however he did turn out to be a reserved, cautious pup. I can look back and also say there were puppies that practically slept through the process being so relaxed and these normally turned out later to be the more adventuresome and confident of the lot. Even if ENS does not work in the way it is reported too, it does help me notice the nuances of the temperaments early on and then it's interesting to see how these pups turn out as they mature into adults.

**we do "subject" the puppies to a lot of photo shoots that are quite stimulating and embarrassing for them as well and this goes on long after their first two weeks of life! :razz:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

We have about 8 litters per year give or take. I do it with every litter. Until now I have not seen one puppy that was made worse from it. It takes only a few minutes each day and I believe it is worth the time. I have seen many litters from other kennels that were noticably less confident than our puppies, even with similar genetics. Maybe what we do works, maybe it does not, but we do it anyway. Some people on this board have seen our puppies and I think they will tell you they are not hurt as a result of our ENS.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I got a dog that the ENS program done to her whole litter...leaving the kennel at 8 weeks all the puppies were pretty even...different personailities but most handled stress, bit, and were social on all the same level. I visited the kennel 2 days a week for 6 weeks before I took my dog. And saw them all weekly. My dog is great sport dog, social, and pretty stable. I have seen a few dogs from the litter since then...and they all are at completetly different levels. Of course I am partial and think my dog is the best. But the difference in the dogs now, is so great...you'd think I was lying when I told you the every pup in the litter was at about the same level going to thier homes.

I do not know ENS made a difference...But if enivormental stimulation plays a part in the development of a dog. I am pretty sure it does not start after they go to thier home. I am not huge that ENS is the only way. But I think doing something with them to give them an edge is better than just leaving them alone.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The whole point is that you cannot tell if you have done something or not. Who is to say that the pups would have been different ?? I noticed higher thresholds, on a breed that already has way too high a threshold. Mike says that they are more confidant to "similar" breedings. Debbie says that she can tell temp. Don says he doesn't give a shit. LOL

It is a great scam, and definately will separate the believers from the non believers.

When someone can tell me that they know FOR SURE that it did something, and can PROVE it, then I will take them seriously.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Don says they go through the same thing in the whelping box from day one. Mom even does a few biosensor moves no one will do....such as lick their butts. When doing this she rolls them all around. They get bio sensor naturally. Yes, they need handling at some point but it seems pretty pointless doing from day one since it is being done anyway.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I thought Debbie's point was pretty interesting, unexpected, as a method to observe. But I have to side with Don's point of view, for the most part. Sure, we want to make the dog achieve its fullest potential, but I can't see ENS being responsible for that. There's not much reason to even _assume that_ it ever could. As a form of conditioning perhaps? And if it in some way ENS _actually does _permanently alter a dog's effective potential, then it would confuse matters a bit as to what that dog will hereditarily transfer to its offspring.

Meaning, you can get great resulting dogs that had excellent training, environmental upbringing, early stimulation and whatnot, but can't produce themselves into their offspring. Kind of like the folks that baby their puppies, to avoid lifechanging negative temperament affects, when others are born with naturally stronger resilience, and are more likely to transfer that to their offspring. Or, kind of like the good-trainer/terrible-dog that gets the podium, and all the breedings that follow can't help the overall breed so much.

From a breeder's perspective, I'd rather know what _really lies under the hood_, in spite of the dog's good training and upbringing. I want to see less routine, less conditioning, and instead what the dog _reverts to _in unexpected or less orthodox exercises.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The whole point is that you cannot tell if you have done something or not. Who is to say that the pups would have been different ?? I noticed higher thresholds, on a breed that already has way too high a threshold. Mike says that they are more confidant to "similar" breedings. Debbie says that she can tell temp. Don says he doesn't give a shit. LOL
> 
> It is a great scam, and definately will separate the believers from the non believers.
> 
> When someone can tell me that they know FOR SURE that it did something, and can PROVE it, then I will take them seriously.


 Jeff,
My first ever post on this forum was about ENS and I remember that you and I were on different sides of the planet with this debate. I understand your point about it and it is clear that you dont put much belief in its benifits. But what I really wish you would not do is refer to those of us who do it as scammers! LOL.........I dont see how it is a "scam" that I spend extra time with my puppies trying to give them a better start before they leave my kennel. I dont say that people who chose not to do it are lazy, so please dont say that I am a scammer.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I was referring to whoever wrote the thing in the first place.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Don says they go through the same thing in the whelping box from day one. Mom even does a few biosensor moves no one will do....such as lick their butts. When doing this she rolls them all around. They get bio sensor naturally. Yes, they need handling at some point but it seems pretty pointless doing from day one since it is being done anyway.


I think that the thermal stressing (hot/cold exposure) and the stimulation between the toes of the puppies are benificial things that the mothers of my litters can not do.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I was asked by a buyer from my latest litter, if I performed ENS, or intended to. After explaining my reasons why I do not, and that my control group testing with exact same parent matchups had varied with contradicting results, he decided it was OK to skip it. I would have been willing, if he wanted, I doubt it's harmful in any way or even really that it hinders much of what I want to be able to observe.

I'd really be interested to know what Schoon's conclusions were of the preliminary results remarked on at her presentation two months ago, if they were similar in any way to mine. There could many other reasons why my results varied, such as maternal diet, seasonal differences, protection working the female during pregnancy, and more. But I definitely did not experience consistency, and consistency is what matters to me.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

_Quote: I thought Debbie's point was pretty interesting, unexpected, as a method to observe.

_"Unexpected"??  I will ask Why?  

After 20 years of breeding, I originally started with ENS as I read about all the benefits and senior working breeders suggestions. I think the question posed on this thread got me thinking about whether I've noticed a difference as I continue to do the ENS litter after litter and have my co-breeder do the same.. 

I still will continue to handle the puppies every day as spending time handling the puppies is not a bad thing and it's good to check the puppies out often to better know the puppies and to be sure all is well physically with each one. However, my litter quality (work drives, character) have improved with better pairing of dogs and really believing that the female is the most important part of the equation. I do the PAWS testing too as many buyers expect it. However, I know my puppies after observing and playing with them every day and a 1 time test is not going to shed new light on my opinion. I have friends and clients meet the puppies as well. I could see how the PAWS test could be beneficial if there was just 1-2 people raising the litter and then you might not know how they would react with strangers though. We work our females too, however does it help? This could be fiction as well  I don't think it's ever a bad thing to spend time and interact with dogs/puppies as they are expected to be companion animals to humans. I think making it a priority that the puppies and dogs have human contact is a no-brainer.  

Also, as breeders, we must not look at training and titles, but at the dog (character, drives, bloodlines) when breeding as the first 2 do not pass through the placenta.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The whole point is that you cannot tell if you have done something or not. Who is to say that the pups would have been different ?? I noticed higher thresholds, on a breed that already has way too high a threshold. Mike says that they are more confidant to "similar" breedings. Debbie says that she can tell temp. Don says he doesn't give a shit. LOL
> 
> It is a great scam, and definately will separate the believers from the non believers.
> 
> When someone can tell me that they know FOR SURE that it did something, and can PROVE it, then I will take them seriously.


 
I think your correct in stating we cannot prove it with concrete evidence. The variables are just to great. But with older dogs you can see where social stimulation can make a dog more confident. You can also see where it helps in other species, Like breast fed babies compared to non-breast fed thier as been major evidence to suggest that the skin on skin contact with mama has benefits. So, I think that evidence may not prove it works, thier is evidence to suggest it will. I do think the level of benefit is one thing that may be argued. The genetic limitation on each individual may vary greatly.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have had way too many dogs to think that there is anything going on here. If you read what Battaglia writes, if sounds too much like the mythical "fight drive" to me.

Way to many people are followers in the dog world, and way to many just believe without thinking. Come to think of it, I guess that goes for other areas.

I think it is amazing that without substantial proof that any real benefit is occuring, that this has been a big deal for this many years. When you say that you do not believe it, then there is all this bluster, but no actual proof. All I saw was higher thresholds in the pups. Not really something I want to do.

Others might see something else in a different breed, who knows ?? Then it seems as if I am advocating not doing a damn thing with pups. I think someone just wanted to be published.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Debbie Skinner said:


> _Quote: I thought Debbie's point was pretty interesting, unexpected, as a method to observe.
> 
> _"Unexpected"??  I will ask Why?


Because you've taken away from the originally purported "intent" of the exercise, while not being subjectively in support of or against it, and applied to it a useful meaning for yourself. I just thought that was kind of cool.

When my prospective buyer inquired about the biosensor stuff, my response was...


> I've used the biosensor program (or ENS) on only about four litters, intentionally to compare to the same parent litters who did NOT receive ENS. The results shown to me, that there was no noticeable difference in three of the litters, and one litter was actually hands-down better than the one that received did receive ENS treatment. So, is it any more effective than than the usual early incidental stimulation that results from picking them up and handling them, exposing them to the sounds of background music, etc. nearby their whelping box and so on? I personally have my doubts, but see no harm in conducting the excercises. There's no resulting scientific evidence that can conclude that it's actually beneficial or detrimental either way, and neither has my personal experience. I personally hold greater value for other windows of direct influence, both before and after this sixteen day period. At your request, I'm willing to do so, or better yet tell me which sex you prefer, and I'll do a portion of the litter, and we can compare results.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

_QUOTE: Because you've taken away from the originally purported "intent" of the exercise, while not being subjectively in support of or against it, and applied to it a useful meaning for yourself. I just thought that was kind of cool.

_It would be quite boring if everyone's response was the same.  We all give responses from our experiences. That's what makes discussion interesting instead of everyone thinking the same way, right?  

I actually said I was for it for the handling and "getting to know" the puppies part as it requires daily handling and manipulating of the puppies. Can't work them when they are that young, but I've seen things that gave clues to their individual temperaments later on. Again, I've observed better litters due to the breedings (combos) done. 

Since I've always done ENS I can't comment on the outcome of not doing it though. If someone asked me to do something I wasn't planning to do with the litter, I'd probably just say "no" and not be as accommodating as you were. I had a client ask me to have the front dew-claws removed on a malinois pup and I don't do this so I just said "no' w/o a long explanation. 

Your response was Cool Too!  It's 100 degrees here in SoCal right now so Cool is Good!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Do they do this bio stuff to babies?


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

Yeah they do but not in the same sense that they do with dogs. Mothers-to-be will put headphones on their bellies and play classical music or even ready to their bellies. It is supposed to increase the intelligence of the babies.


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## Sanda Stankovic (Jan 10, 2009)

I was just going through some stuff online that have looked at handling and it appears that it has been shown that in early handling does affect their development. 


Just few random ones. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

All still experimental, the abstracts contain lots of words like "suggests, possibly, could, can", but offer nothing conclusive, and nearly always requiring further study (IOW, funding) into how these mechanisms "may" work. There's no doubt in my mind, that any early influence will have a stronger affect on the freshly laid foundations of the organism's neural network. But the "how", and the limits of these specific techniques, as outlined by the "ENS" proceedure are what I find questionable.


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## Sanda Stankovic (Jan 10, 2009)

Science is always suggestive, rarely conclusive. If you search a bit more on pubmed you will find that there are other papers where the "how" is addressed in some detail. Its also a bit hard with access to only abstracts. 
I am sure someone published ENS stuff, I just couldnt find any, plus they might be calling it something else. It appears that with this bio-sensor stuff they tried and include many different stimuli (positioning, handling, temperatures, etc.) all of which stimulate different parts of the brain.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

"Science is always suggestive, rarely conclusive."

So often true  The other sensory modalities could be further "stressed" at different periods, but little is mentioned in reference to puppies in studies I've read, or "packaged" with different labels among early handlers (i.e., portions of "puppy testing"). Things like elevated positions when they're more aware of their predicament, moveable/unstable surfaces, tight enclosed spaces, loud obnoxious sounds, and such. What do the people who practice ENS like to routinely perform?


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## Sanda Stankovic (Jan 10, 2009)

when you said 'how' did you mean something like this? 
I think it gets a bit too technical, but it does go into a bit more detail on the effects of handling. 

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/20/10/3926

I would assume similar effects would be seen with different stimuli early in life before they are very aware of their environment.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Yeah, that one attempts to describe the steps.

*HOW do you get from...*
1. Tactile stimulation 
2. Head held erect 
3. Head pointed down 
4. Supine position 
5. Thermal stimulation 

*To arrive at...*
1. Improved cardio performance 
2. Stronger heartbeats. 
3. Stronger adrenal glands 
4. More tolerance to stress 
5. Greater resistance to disease 



> *Figure 10.* Handling provides for multisensoral stimulation of pups, which leads to various changes in pup physiology and thus in the sensory characteristics of the pups. This, in turn, leads to changes in maternal behavior (Liu et al., 1997; Francis et al., 1999) that appear to mediate the handling effect on hippocampal glucocorticoid receptor gene expression. In response to the handling manipulation, there occurs an increase in circulating levels of triiodothyronine that stimulates 5-HT activity at the level of the hippocampus (see introductory remarks). The increase in both thyroid hormones and 5-HT are obligatory for the handling effect on hippocampal glucocorticoid receptor expression. In vitro studies with cultured hippocampal neurons reveal that 5-HT can directly modulate glucocorticoid receptor expression in hippocampal neurons and that this effect is mediated by a 5-HT7-like receptor, which is positively coupled to cAMP. The results of the current studies show that handling increases hippocampal cAMP formation, PKA activity, and mRNA levels for AP-2 and NGFI-A. Recent studies (Diorio et al., 1997) show that handling also increases AP-2 and NGFI-A binding to their respective consensus sequences, such as those found on a promoter for the human glucocorticoid receptor gene. We propose that these steps are involved in the molecular basis of the handling effect on hippocampal glucocorticoid receptor gene expression.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Yep. is the exact double talk Daryl was refering to

"*Iam sure*someone published ENS stuff, *I just couldnt find* any, plus *they might be calling it something else*. It appears that with this bio-sensor stuff they tried and include many different stimuli (positioning, handling, temperatures, etc.) all of which stimulate different parts of the brain.

It will do well to remember that the environment will always have a more profound effect on the inherently less confident regardless of whether or not it is a positive or a negative effect.


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## Sanda Stankovic (Jan 10, 2009)

There is a lot of published stuff out there and if you looked at all of them you would get a pretty good idea that a lot is known about the mechanism of early neurological stimulation on the brain. 
The details I think are not fully understood even by those that research this subject. 

However, if you do a bit of your own research and you look up thyroid gland for example and its relationship with immunity and cardiac function I think you will find few things. That, together with the flow chart Daryl posted starts to give you a better overall picture I think. 



> It will do well to remember that the environment will always have a more profound effect on the inherently less confident regardless of whether or not it is a positive or a negative effect.


I agree. But then again, what if the ENS just provides normal natural stimulation. Animals in the wild will be exposed to brief moments of cold, different surfaces, moved around a lot more than pups in a whelping box and airconditioned room. The potential of those pups is genetic, ENS may just enhance its expression, I dont think we can say it will create something that isnt initially there. 

Who is to say that the response of a pup to those stimuli isnt something that should be selected for? Maybe that in itself has other associations in dog's later ability to adjust and interact with its environment...


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Do they do this bio stuff to babies?


I did!!!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Do they do this bio stuff to babies?


When my wife was pregnate with our oldest daughter we followed my buddies rock band. 
The daughter turned out to be one helluva dancer. What can I say! :-D


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