# Any and all thoughts?



## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Sent this to Connie, figured I'd also throw it out to the group....need suggestions for a friend of mine. RAW is not an option.



> Here's the deal:
> 
> Nate: 3 year old male GSD (78 lbs.) with FCP and UCP diagnosed in both elbows at age 1. Had elbow surgery at University of Iowa in Ames by Dr. Conzemius at a little of 1 year old and seemed to help with his limping significantly (has more of a "unique" gait now - not a limp but if you know shepherds - you know it's not "normal"). He already has some arthritis in both elbows so the Dr. recommended Hills Science Diet Prescription formula (for joints = j/d formula). We notice a difference in his limping if he doesn't have that food because we experimented giving him the Canidae that Sophie eats with an omega 3 oil supplement and seemed he didn't do as well.
> 
> ...


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

j/d is essentially a very crappy, low-quality (and over-priced), nasty gross dog food that has fish oil, glucosamine chondritin and antioxidants added.

So - feed the Canidae. Double the fish oil amount, add vitamin E, add the highest quality glucosamine chondritin that money can buy. Check with vet for dose. There should be a loading dose. Add "Missing Link" supplement.

Even when raw is not an option, a dog can benefit from fresh foods added to the diet. plain yogurt, a raw egg in shell, pulped or canned veggies, cranberries/craisins, blueberries, banana, orange, cooked oatmeal, cooked potatoes (a favorite with my dogs), canned mackerel, sardines, 

Really anything except chocolate, onion, garlic, grapes and raisins. No things high in salt or sugar.


----------



## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Absolutely agree with Anne - great advice. Additionally, some natural anti-inflammatories you could look into include Bromelain, Turmeric, Devil's claw and Green-lipped Mussel.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne is 100% correct; that food is crap. It's crap on every level, from the basic ingredients to "supplements" added.

Also, dogs need the Omega 3s from marine sources, which do not survive undamaged in the commercial food process. Omega 3s are EFAs in very unsaturated oils, which need to be unheated and carefully handled. Only fish itself is a safe vehicle for cooked fish oil, and even fish has to be gently cooked not to damage the Omega 3s.

No commercial food should be chosen for its "Omega 3" content..... on several levels, that's nothing but a marketing ploy.

I PMed you, Woody. :>) Omega 3s for dogs are all about dosage and source.


----------



## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

everything above, but add...

put that dog on Cosequin DS. It's not cheap, but then again, neither is that PD food.  The instructions are on it, but make sure she knows to actually follow the six week initial administration period, then wean it down gradually. I have heard some vets tell clients that the initial admin period was not necessary and to just start on the maintenance dose, but it does make a difference. 

I have tried pretty much all of the other g/c supplements (or treated dogs on them) and none of them stack up to the Cosequin, particularly with a dog that already has problems with their joints. If she chooses another brand of supplement, she needs to have a long talk with the vet and do her research before choosing dosages, b/c a lot of people administer the human dosages, and dogs need almost double that.


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

http://www.kvh.com.au/Cartrophen Vet.html
I've had good results with this.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> http://www.kvh.com.au/Cartrophen Vet.html
> I've had good results with this.



Not available in the U.S. yet. If I'm wrong, someone please tell me, because I've been trying to keep up with this. We need it.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

OK, call me cruel, but keep the limping GSD around. I do not have a food recommendation, but the other alternative should be looked into. This is a young dog and it is rediculous to leave them in pain like this.


----------



## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> OK, call me cruel, but keep the limping GSD around. I do not have a food recommendation, but the other alternative should be looked into. This is a young dog and it is rediculous to leave them in pain like this.


I do not disagree. 

Thanks for the feedback, everybody.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

> Anne is 100% correct


You're a good teacher, Connie :grin: But I do have some learning to do about the omega-3's. Please PM or email some more info about it so I can give more enlightened advice.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> OK, call me cruel, but keep the limping GSD around. I do not have a food recommendation, but the other alternative should be looked into. This is a young dog and it is rediculous to leave them in pain like this.


Absolutely, and there are good (and safe) treatments now. They do NOT include that food (did I mention that it's the highest order of crap there is?), but there are several really good suggestions here.

The basis (IMO) is always fish oil (plus vitamin E, used to process the oil) because Omega 3s help supress the production of the prostaglandins causing the uncontrolled pain. This is accompanied with the best (and the best is still cheap, BTW) glucosamine, and then other supplements and safe meds that don't rip the stomach apart and can work at replenishing the ground-away protective tissue.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i would suggest to NOT use glucosamine sulfate, the hydrochloride is easier on the stomach (at least in my dogs).


----------

