# Vet Visit



## Carlo Hernandez (Aug 30, 2008)

Hello all,

Well just got back from my visit with the vet. My pup is almost 15 weeks old. We switched vets from his first visit as the first place pretty much lectured me about feeding raw.

So my visit-

He started peeing in his cage every our and looks like reason is he has a UTI. So we have some medicine to give him 2x a day.

The vet was doing her exam and also said he has a Grade 1 Heart Murmur...said some pups grow out of it but we need to keep an eye out for it. And finally...he also has an umbilical hernia and I was told he should not be bred. I was not planning too, but I spent ALOT of money on him. I specifically chose this breeder just because I wanted the classic black/tan look and one with high drive for Schutzhund work.

So I am pretty dissappointed, ANGRY and sad. When I email the breeder about this...what should I expect to happen? Their warranty states this

If determined, by a veterinarian, that said puppy has any genetic problems that would preclude it from living an otherwise normal and healthy life, or in the case of hip and elbow evaluation, as determined by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA), Mittelwest German Shepherds will replace the puppy with another puppy of equal value.

Is it too much to ask for a partial refund? I do not want to return him as obviously we are attached and I believe if his murmur does not get worse he can still do well in Schutzhund.

Thoughts?


----------



## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

[


If determined, by a veterinarian, that said puppy has any genetic problems that would preclude it from living an otherwise normal and healthy life, or in the case of hip and elbow evaluation, as determined by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA), Mittelwest German Shepherds will replace the puppy with another puppy of equal value.

quote]
They could say no if he can still live a healthy life with a heart murmur but just not suited for Schutzhund. Technically the pup hasn't voided the contract yet. I really hope that they do right by you and square you away.

Kayla


----------



## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

I would get a second opinion. Some vets are stupid and some are just sadistic. They get more $ when they scare you. 

Many pups have small umbilical hernias that close up as they grow. You would know it if it were a bad one. There would be a large bump with an intestine sticking out of it. 

On the heart murmur I wouldn't worry either, get it checked in a few weeks by another vet. I would call some members of your club and ask for vet recomendations. 

Julie


----------



## Carlo Hernandez (Aug 30, 2008)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> I would call some members of your club and ask for vet recomendations.
> 
> Julie


I cant believe I never thought of asking my club member for Vet recommendations! 

I will get a 2nd opionion.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Look, this is a classic classic breeder thing. Here is how you get over on them. Find a vet that you or one of your buddy's know. Give him a c note and tell him that you got stuck with a dog that cannot do what you got him for. 

He writes you up a nice note and boom, your problem is solved.

The breeders that I know will take back and replace a dog just because. No need for a perfect reason, they will take the dog back just because you don't like his color.

Breeders like what you got your dog from HATE getting a pup back, and rely on your attachment to the dog to get over. If worse comes to worse, send him back, or better yet, drive there and tie the pup to the front door.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Although I think it's a grey area if the contract has been broken yet or not, I do think the heart murmur would potentially be an issue if it doesn't resolve. The umbilical hernia, if it's small like you said, I wouldn't be concerned about. Sometimes they resolve, and even if they don't, I haven't seen a dog yet that had a problem from it, assuming it's small. It's also questionable if this is a genetic issue as it can also be caused by the mom chewing the umbilical cords to short, tugging on them excessively trying to "clean" them, etc. 

I would definitely get a second opinion, I've had people take a dog to one vet who declares it perfectly healthy, then a week later another vet says there is a murmur, so who knows. If the second vet says there is a murmur then take the documentation from both, send it to the breeder, and tell them you want a partial refund. Or cut your losses now, send the pup back and get a replacement. I know when you are attached to the pup that can be hard, but depending on how the murmur turns out (I'm not a vet, so I don't know if the pup will be fine, always have problems, etc) do you really want a dog for the next 10-12 years who could have been the dog you really wanted? Or do you want a dog who can hopefully live up to your dreams/desires?


----------



## Guest (May 22, 2009)

> When I email the breeder about this...what should I expect to happen?


Based on how many litters she has planned, and how much she charges for each puppy, do a little math, and consider how much money she's making. 

And ask yourself if it is objectively unreasonable to have even a _full refund._

Then there's this if you're unaware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwg8dDOSj0I


_Connerz is a gorgeous young, proven stud dog with incredible pedigree. Connerz is excellent in the home and has very good manners as a home dog. *Very well trained, with very solid, formal obedience training and powerful protection work as well.* _
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E09xVRKc6Cg @ 4:30

http://www.mittelwest.com/German%20Shepherd%20Dogs%20For%20Sale%20pictures.htm


----------



## Vivianne Herrero (May 20, 2009)

Wow! Been there and all I can say is I feel your pain. You've been given some great advise. My boy has a grade 2 (mild to moderate) heart murmur and his first vet said he'd grown out of it when we went back for his 10-week shots. You can imagine my surprise when his 2nd vet found the murmur again at 10 months. I'd get a second opinion as has been suggested and a recheck a few months later.

If you want a definitive answer sooner rather than later make an appointment with a cardio vet. They will be able to determine if it's a congenital heart defect or if it's something the pup will outgrow.

As far as the umbilical hernia, that can be surgical fixed and your dog should be able to work in SchH, but not bred.

The wording on your contract is pretty standard. If your pup is deemed to have a congenital heart defect it still doesn't mean it can't live a full healthy life especially if it's only a grade 1 murmur. I had a similar situation with my dog's breeder in that I asked for the price to have him echo'd by a cardiologist refunded to me...I'm still waiting...it's been over 2 years. Needless to say his breeder and I are no longer on speaking terms.

I wish you luck.


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Steven Lepic said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwg8dDOSj0I
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E09xVRKc6Cg @ 4:30



those gave me a good LOL, thank you for making my day.

I love when the dog just breaks the heel, runs off, past the helper and pisses on the tree.


----------

