# Need some advise - problems with pup



## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

I am having a number of problems with my almost 6 month old GSD pup (currently 30kg). He has always been a bit of handful but he was improving greatly … until recently. I have to be very firm with him and not give him an inch. We make him work for everything.

He knows all the basics such as wait, toilet on command, come, sit, drop, back up, leave and stay. Walking on a leash is still a bit of a problem but he is generally good – it is just when he gets over excited that he seems to lose the plot. He is obsessed with food, water and tug toys – human affection is not something he seems to want. He is not a dog who comes looking for a pat.

Just when we thought he was doing well ... in the last week or so he is starting to play up again. One moment he will be perfect ... doing a snappy drop on the run, will do a drop/stay when I walk to the other side of the field, will do a drop/stay when I walk out of sight, perfect sit/stay, walking beautifully on lead, snappy heal etc and then other times … he is a nightmare.

He will bark and lunge at other dogs when he sees them in public … we have introduced him to some dogs and he behaves the same way until he gets close and then he is playful and friendly. Because dogs have a high level of interest for him – we don’t let him play with them (he has had a couple of play dates where he is “released” to play). I take him to obedience classes so he is exposed to different dogs regularly but is not allowed any interaction with them. We use these other dogs as part of his distraction training and he has been handling it well.

He will also bark and lunges at people he sees – there is no aggression but it is more of “come and play with me” – once they walk away then he settles down again. We don’t allow him to play with people other then myself and my brother (his handler when he starts working security) – so we don’t understand why he has this reaction to people. At home (when we have people over) he doesn’t have this reaction – it is just when he is out in public.

How can I reduce the full on reaction without it affecting him later on when he is working? He understands when we tell him “enough” but this doesn’t get through his head when he is reacting. I have been getting him to heel/sit or drop and then correcting when he doesn’t heel/sit or drop, rather then correct the barking and lunging – is there a better way?

Some of the other naughty things he has started to do is not coming when called … he will come towards you but then veers off or stays out of reach. He used to fetch nicely but again has started to veer off before getting to you or stays out of reach. We tried having 2 balls or a high value toy/treat to swap but this wasn’t working so we stopped the running off game by keeping him on a long leash so he can’t run off.

Yesterday he was being a nutcase in the backyard as he wanted to play with the garden hose while I was watering some plants, so when he wouldn’t “leave” as he was told … I removed him and put him on a leash attached to the clothesline (and check chain – I don’t like them but he works better on one) a bit of a distance away from me … and after a moment or two of whinging he settled. As I moved closer to him he lunged to grab the water coming from the hose, so I told him to leave when he looked like he was about to lunge and used his lunge as a self correction. This seems to work as after about 3 attempts he settled again.

After a while I told him to drop (he was sitting) and he dropped but got up again almost immediately. I corrected him and put him in a drop again, he then gets up again … at this stage I wasn’t going to let him get away with it and dropped him again … and then he started fighting the correction and drop – I refused to let him win or get away with it. He then latched onto my arm and I immediately smacked him across the muzzle (I don’t believe in hitting) and physically forced him to drop again, this time holding him down with my foot on the leash. I counted to 20, removed my foot from the leash and counted to 10, praised (because he didn’t get up) and then “released” him.

I was extremely annoyed with him and don’t think I handled the situation in the best possible way. How could I have better dealt with the situation?

I am beginning to get really frustrated with his dog because I don’t know how he is going to reaction from one moment to the next. Just when I think I have him worked out … he then seems to change.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

He is 6 months old and you are confused about this behavior ?? Is this your first dog ??

I saw that petsmart has a sale on betta fish.


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> He is 6 months old and you are confused about this behavior ?? Is this your first dog ??
> 
> I saw that petsmart has a sale on betta fish.


No - he is not my first dog ...


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Sounds like you're correcting for the bad behavior, but are you rewarding for the good behavior? i.e., the focused pause, when showing self restraint. Might appear that you're rewarding for nothing, but in his mind, he'll recognize the difference. Reward for the slightest amount at first, then make it a little longer before rewarding each progressive session.


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## Jimmy Dalton (Apr 29, 2009)

He is only 6 months old? I would slow down a little and go back to just having fun and let him mature some.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: No - he is not my first dog ...

Sounds like it. 6 months they are supposed to be a pain in the ass, as it is when they get their first little blast of testosterone and look to move up in the pack.

If you squash him now, then what will he be when he grows up ?? There is also the possibility that you'll just have to chill the **** out.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Mike Schrieber, right here is that drill sargent syndrome I was talking about in that other thread. It is a common syndrome. Dog probably spends a lot of time in a crate also.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> He is 6 months old and you are confused about this behavior ?? Is this your first dog ??
> 
> I saw that petsmart has a sale on betta fish.


 HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My thoughts here. 

It's a puppy, kind of like asking a first grader to look at the playground stuff and not use it. Is the puppy crated for long periods of time? When was it allowed to be a puppy? Or did you start for "strong" OB from 8 weeks of age?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Don I'm glad you posted that. This is a behavior I see lots with folks who want OB lessons on young critters. They come out like a bang and can't FIND enough FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!! When will these folks let puppies be puppies? D.I. behavios at an early age=MAJOR training issues down the road.#-o


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

So is this typical for GSD? Because I got my two (working line) at right around 6 months old, when they started getting aggressive and their idiot owner was too scared of them. I can't remember my male mals acting up at that age, though they certainly did later, at 10-12 months or so.

p.s. What are D.I. behaviors??


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

"D.I." drill instructor in armed forces. complete, precise compliance w/command, or take the consequences. think koehler, lol.

tily--6 mo olds are assholes. they test. best thing i've found is to give them no opportunity to not comply (your long line for the recall, for example), and focus on when they DO comply--have a party, as they say.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That first little blast comes between 6 and 11 months. You just got the later version of it.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I like a dog to test....don't care for a dog that won't. That brings it down to how the handler perceives a dog testing him. I don't get mad at them testing me. It's a game, they test, I laugh.....and push them to the point they say "screw this" and simply do what they were supposed to in the first place. The really good ones always test. If you are going to act like a drill instuctor about it....you are not going to have any fun with your dog and he is not going to play your game if he is a good dog. Don't get anal about everything. If he isn't doing what you want..remember, he is a dog and your doing something wrong.


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> He is 6 months old and you are confused about this behavior ?? Is this your first dog ??
> 
> I saw that petsmart has a sale on betta fish.


LoL... you're such an ass sometimes, but what a great way to start the morning. :mrgreen:


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

To the original poster: You basically just described what pretty much EVERY, or 9 out of 10 working line GSDs do at that age, nothing new under the sun.

If you weren't talking about your dog, I would think you came for a visit and were interacting with my dog when he was that age, maybe September 2008, 5, 6 months.

Let him have FUN - together - with you. Forget the damn plant, it'll be there after you play with him. My dog was having a blast while I was holding a water hose and he will "chase" and "bite" the squirts of water all around him. BEsides fun, I figured something good could come out of it and since he was wet, might as well put some flea repellent shampoo on him, lather and rinse, then play more, give him a bath and wash it off while we are playing.

The good news for you is this - they all outgrow the misbhehaving brat stage, and please ease up on the formal stage, what's the rush?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Sometimes*



Meng Xiong said:


> LoL... you're such an ass sometimes, but what a great way to start the morning. :mrgreen:


SOMETIMES???

You're slipping up Jeff.


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Sometimes*

To those who think I am being a drill sargent ... I am not asking more from him then I know he understands.

I am up at 4am in the morning and spend up a minimum of 4 hours with this pup ... playing and working with him!!!! During play he might be asked to sit or drop or stay a couple of times - we then head down to the park and do about 5 minutes of walking on leash, turns, drop and stay etc and then have a game and run around before heading home where he is fed. I am getting into work at about 9 to 10am. He is then home alone (in the backyard) until about 3am when he is played with, given a couple of sits, drops etc and then run around and played with again. At about 6pm until about 8pm I do more work. He is then walked and played with again with until I go to bed which is usually about midnight. A couple of nights a week we visit my brother on the work sites the pup will might eventually be working on - so he gets to experience the different evnironments such as the big machinery, different surfaces and different situations. This is all fun and games for him as he loves exploring - he might be asked to do a couple of sit, drops, stays etc.

He goes swimming at least once a week and to obedience classes twice a week. Obedience classes started in the last half of October but there was 2 weeks that he didn't attend as I was away on a course for one and the other week I had a seriously sick dog (our older dog had a paralysis tick).

I started taking him to obedience classes so he was exposed to more different types/sizes of dog as his barking and lunging at other dogs was perceived as aggression by other dog owners - I know it is not but I can't have him displaying this behaviour. I need to nip this in the butt because in another 6 months he is going to be a very big boy and people won't understand he is just a pup. I asked for advice because the methods of distraction etc are not working and I don't want to squash his drives etc by overly correcting. My previous dogs have never displayed this level of behaviour - and I have always been able to get their attention - nothing has been working with this boy.

"Leave" is a behaviour that I expect them know and comply with - usually for their own safety. The situation I described with the garden hose is not one of the "own safety" situations but it was an example of him not listening. The event happened late a night before I was about to take him inside for the night to his crate so I didn't want him all wet and muddy - yes I could have crated him first before hosing the garden but I didn't ... my fault but I still expected him to "leave" when he was told. What if it had been a snake or something dangerous?

I don't expect much from my dogs but I do expect them to obey when I tell them to do something - I am not one who goes out and drills commands and punishing. I don't ask them to drop and stay for hours on end - we are looking at the count of 10 at the most. The drop and stay while I am out of sight is me walking around behind a garden shed - again all within the count of 10. This has been part of games - such as I run off with a toy and waits and then I release him to find it - he loves this sort of play.

I don't want him to think that he can pick and choose when he listens to me.


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## Chip Blasiole (Jun 7, 2006)

Some of this will go away with maturity. As for the lunging, don't let your dog get so close to other dogs and people until you have told him to sit and he can contain the sit long enough for you to give a release command. Then move a little closer to the other dogs/people and repeat. You can't just go up to someone or another dog and expect your dog to maintain his composure with obedience if he can't maintain a composed sit from a distance. Try it first at a distance of fifty feet and see how he does. If he is too wild, increase the distance. Then over time, gradually decrease the distance. This is a fundamental approach in training. Consider the dogs and other people as a distraction. With increased training, using reinforcement and punishment, along with maturity, the dog will get it. Use food to reinforce the composed sit from a distance and correct when the pup gets stupid. I would use a prong and you need to know how to give a clean, concise correction while keeping your composure. Focus more on reinforcing the desired behavior than correcting the unwanted behavior. Alternate between you moving closer to the distraction and the distraction moving closer to you. Don't forget to reinforce with food for a composed sit, and then give your release command and offer praise and petting, then go back to a composed sit. Quit on a success and don't go too long at first.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: Sometimes*

I dunno, you are asking adult behaviors from a puppy. Ease up!! If I don't want my pup going crazy when I am watering. I taught a behavior of sitting before meeting a dog-- its now a default behavior with occasional reminders. He will sit and look to me. But he was about 9-10 months. They are pests at that age. Soon I will be joining the ranks of puppyhood. In December I will be bringing home a pup.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I am up at 4am in the morning and spend up a minimum of 4 hours with this pup ... playing and working with him!!!!

So do you get what we are saying or not ??


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: I am up at 4am in the morning and spend up a minimum of 4 hours with this pup ... playing and working with him!!!!
> 
> So do you get what we are saying or not ??


Most of this is play - because I am leaving him unattended for a number of hours so I want him a little bit tired. I don't spend 4 hours training him. He might get a couple of sits before I throw a ball or come to return it - yes he is now on a long line when we play the ball games but generally he is off leash playing.

If I didn't spend this time with him he would completely destroy the yard and drive the neighbours nuts.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: Sometimes*



Tilly Smith said:


> To those who think I am being a drill sargent ...
> 
> I am up at 4am in the morning and spend up a minimum of 4 hours with this pup ... playing and working with him!!!! .
> 
> At about 6pm until about 8pm I do more work. He is then walked and played with again with until I go to bed which is usually about midnight.


Try getting more sleep and maybe you'll have better luck, I sleep more at work than you do in an entire 24 hr day, unless you're just BS'in


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Sometimes*



Gerry Grimwood said:


> Try getting more sleep and maybe you'll have better luck, I sleep more at work than you do in an entire 24 hr day, unless you're just BS'in


I have a sleep disorder and don't sleep often ... I crash every couple of weeks and sleep for a day but generally sleep very little.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

*Re: Sometimes*

This sounds slightly familiar to me and maybe you wouldn't agree but if you do spend 4 hours a day with him it sounds to me like your value isn't that high to the dog and that at least for the moment he's finding the outside world more interesting. 

Might sound like reverse logic in relationship to what you perceive the issue to be but try spending less time with him and see how it goes. You might just find that he's suddenly more complaint on his own. By that I don't mean this perfect sitting dog that's lost his evil horns and naughty puppy essence but rather a puppy whose just more in to you in general. When that happens you may find that the rest falls right into place and quite easily so.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So you are bi polar ??


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> So you are bi polar ??


Jeff - if you have nothing constructive to add then post your sh!t elsewhere. I asked for assistance not your crap.

I am not bi polar, I am not stupid and no I am not on drugs. 

I live on less then 4 hours of sleep a night - it is not a big deal or a problem because it allows me to work a full time job, do my volunteer work (which is almost a full time job) and spend time with my 2 dogs.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Dipshit, what do you think is one of the symptoms of bi-polar disease ?? Do you have any idea how many really successful people have this ??

I will post my shit where ever I want, you are not the boss of me. I told you right from the start what you were doing wrong, and you went shopping for opinions......and came up with the same shit I said.

Take some medicine and get control of yourself. I would not want to be your dog.


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

I asked for assistance Jeff - not to be told I should get a fish or that I have bi polar - I DO NOT HAVE BI POLAR - NOR DO I WANT A FISH.

If you are not capable of offer some CONSTRUCTIVE ADVICE then that is all you needed to say or not post anything at all.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You know, you could spend a lot of that wakey wakey time digging a nice goldfish pond. All that extra time ya know. Koi are really pretty fish.


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

Jeff - Stop playing with your self or at least change hands occassionally.... real childish!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I would make it a really deep pond so that the water stays cool. That would be a good start. I also like the white water lillies, do you have those down there ??

Then after you get this finished, take about a month off and read a bunch of books on OCD behaviors and some on dog training.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Sometimes the dog doesn't "fit" the owner, maybe this is the case here? Sounds like a normal pup to me though. Try to enjoy the little guy and not be at odds so much, and do a lot of motivational obedience. I might not be the best person to give you advice on this because i tend to take my time with pups and really just play a lot with them at 6 months old, guide them into behaviours and reward! fun !!!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Lordy, Lordy...dis am phun! :razz:

I'm sure you aren't spending 4 hours training that pup, the attention span is only minutes long. I do very little OB with my pups until they are past 6 months and out of teething. I want them to come when called, walk in a reasonable manner on lead, kennel, and be a "kid." On-lead OB can be done in less than two weeks and still be fun.

Koi...Heron eat them. Go with snapping turtles, keeps the skinny dippers out of the pond! :-(\\/


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