# Mondio or French Ring?????



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I have a GSD that I got for Schutzhund......however, I'm thinking of changing it up and going to Mondio or French ring with him as I want something different. The trainers I work with have expierience in these areas so I wouldn't have to change trainers etc. BUT I think that he may be too big for those sports. In French ring I'm worried about the wall with him. So, what's the average size of mondio or frnech ring dogs??? Does it matter? What all will I have to change in OB work with him, anything???? I've done my research but I'm still unsure of the difference in the OB routines. 

Thanks for the info! 

Courtney


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Courtney, do K-9 PP and cheese off some of our forum members!!!:-k :twisted: 
On a more positive note, do what you want as long as you find someone who has done it and can help you have success. I got out of Schutzhund due to the game playing that I experienced. I enjoy the type of training that we do and have met others who do the same or something close...Train Proud!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If the dog can jump well, then I would go for it. There really is no good reason not to do a sport because of the pallisade. You only HAVE to do it in Mondio at the 3 level.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

If you have people to train Mondio with, I'd do that. FR the palisade is optional at level 1 but compulsory at level 2 plus the Mondio Palisade has a ramp on the other side of the wall for easier landings. 

As much as I love French Ring a bigger dog can struggle and injure themselves a lot easier than a smaller dog. Especially if your dog is a little bit older when you start training the foundation. It's possible though with a bigger dog, I have a friend who has a Giant Schnauzer and we are going to prepare him for a FR Brevet which = (no jumps) to a level 1 which = (1 jump of choice) 

Most people in Ring 1 do the hurdle, it's very common. Though you can pick any jump though. I now just want do the broad jump for our FR1. Once the dog hits the ground, the exercise is done, no return jump. My bitch 2.5 years does the basics to all 3 jumps. She does the hurdle at 1m max level 1, the thing is the hurdle while easy at first the repeated landing are hard on elbows (I don't want to hurt her joints by going too high during training), the palisade she does 2m with ease, but we use an A-frame for training, again safety. Now we are working the foundation of the broad jump. 

I feel that the broad jump is probably the easiest on the dogs joints. They leap and bounce naturally, there is no real landing impact. We should imprint all the jumps early, but there is a lot to be said for modifying things as to not jeopardize the dogs long term health. So if you approached it like that you could easily train FR if that is all that is available to you.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> What all will I have to change in OB work with him, anything???? I've done my research but I'm still unsure of the difference in the OB routines.


The only thing different is there is no down/sit in motion in Ring just auto sits durign the heel with leash and muzzle. Also in Ring they don't look for the artsy fartsy attentive heel like they do in SchH. It's either the dog lags or forges that's it. 

The retrieves are done with a rolled up pair of socks, glass case, or tied off rag/hanky. 

The important things with Ring are the placements .. Thankfully they are all closely the same between the exercises .. 

_"X 'heel'"_ 3 steps to the line stop .. _"X 'sit'"_ move a 1/2 step away from the dog . .. _"'Don't move' "_ The dog is then placed. Sounds easy on screen but there is lots of little things for the green handler to remember. 

Kadi has a nice article of the diffs between the 2 sports on her www. Check it out here. http://www.dantero.com/frschdif.htm 

As well take a peek at the Rulebook on the NARA www here. There is a a new rulebook being worked on but this will give you a good idea of what to expect. http://www.ringsport.org/rulebook.htm


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks for the info! it's not that I don't like Schutzhund....it's that we're getting bored and I don't want that. I have heard that FR doesn't like the big dogs and Judge is a BIG boy. 

I'm gonna check those websites out! 

Courtney


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> Thanks for the info! it's not that I don't like Schutzhund....it's that we're getting bored and I don't want that. I have heard that FR doesn't like the big dogs and Judge is a BIG boy.


Remember the entry level title for MR or FR (Brevet) is on a level of a SchH1-2 because it includes bite work as well as the obedience.

We actually have a few 80+ lb GSDs in our Ring Club one of them has a Brevet now and is working the level 1 routine. 

As well as Joe's Giant Schnauzer ... like I said it can be done just don't expect a national or world championship. Though you and the dog will have a blast. Ringsport in it's nature either FR or Mondio is a sport of many variables and surprises where SchH is more like a well rehearsed ballet for lack of a better description. If it is because you are bored look no further! :twisted:


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I'm gonna talk to the trainer and make sure that he has Mondio expierience I know that he has FR exp. as there is a guy in the club that is training a Mal for it. 

I asked about size because there is another guy with a Mal that was started in FR but due to the dog's size and the decoys reluctance to catch him on a suit he switched to Schutzhund! 

Sounds like a lot of fun...I'm gonna keep doing my research but I have a feeling that I'm switching to the dark side of things. lol 

Courtney


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

One thing to keep in mind about the Ring sports, you do not have to do the jumps at maximum. It's not like Sch where there is just one height for all the jumps. In FRIII you CAN do the hurdle at 1.2m, long jump at 4.5m and palisade at 2.3m for full points. But you can also do them at .8, 3.0 and 1.8 for just partial points. At 0.8m the FR hurdle is lower then the Sch hurdle. If the dog can easily do the Sch a-frame it should be able to do a 1.8m wall also. And I've seen some BIG show line GSD doing the long jump at 3.0. 

I'd just give the sport a shot, and see how far you can go with it. Even if the dog doesn't do one of the jumps for some reason it can still pass, just have to have everything else pretty tight.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> I asked about size because there is another guy with a Mal that was started in FR but due to the dog's size and the decoys reluctance to catch him on a suit he switched to Schutzhund!
> 
> Sounds like a lot of fun...I'm gonna keep doing my research but I have a feeling that I'm switching to the dark side of things. lol


Courtney I don't understand what you mean by catching a bigger dog on the suit. Basically all ringsports foundation bite work is done with an agitation harness or collar with the dog back tied. Nobody sends a green dog on long attaques and even most level 3 dogs they back tie dogs to work grip technique. 

Sending a Green dog on a 30m Face attaque is asking for the dog and the decoy to be injured. Everybody sees videos of the NARA championships or French Cup and want that right away. There is steps to get there and those steps *SHOULDN'T* be skipped. 

This is what Ringsport Grip training should look like in the beginning. The video is with our Friend Fernando Dosta and what I'm talking about is the first 1:46 of this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siKjMY3UUqI To start a green dog it won't even get a run into the decoy. The dog will be put out at the end of a back tied static line to build grip foundation then the decoy would be feeding the dog the bite so the dog doesn't go into error. You don't want the dog to gain bad habits, there is so much going on with Ringsport bite work it is easy to screw a dog up if you add to much to fast.


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## Jaana Aadamsoo (Dec 5, 2008)

I know very little about the sport but couldn´t the helper be reluctant because with a bigger dog he can get hurt himself? I have been really wondering about the legbites- they are like cannonballs and knees are pretty vulnerable (I have had both dislocated and even though years have passed, I can still feel the difference).


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quit yer bitchin and train. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LviwuNy1XDY&feature=related

A little inspiration.


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

I think if more GSD breeders started doing ringsport we would have to worry less about them breaking doing the sport.

I saw a very nice -- very large gsd competing at the MR world cup. He was owned by the team from Russia. I have it on video, I'll try to load it up.

great video jeff, but...I particularly like the dosta one -- cute dogs in that one!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Dosta, Dosta.......hmmmmmm, I heard he helped train the 6th place dog at the WORLDS.

Never heard of him. LOL


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

Maybe this can inspire you...

Here's my starter dog Ramsey, he was very low drive and really didn't like biting people at all. He was 4 -- and I was brand new in ringsport, ... and the closest trained decoy lived 6 hours away in Chicago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7YQh39yK54

:-&


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

... Not to mention this years USMRA MR1 Champion
Bacchus -- He started ringsport at 4 yrs old

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRVIzxNuErk

This dog is all there and could easily compete to level 3-- the handler, who I love dearly, is low drive.:lol:


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quit yer bitchin and train. LOL
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LviwuNy1XDY&feature=related
> 
> A little inspiration.


Yeah what the man said!! You and the dog will love it!


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

OK, OK! lol lol Jeff- you are becoming my hero! Can I come live in your doghouse???? lol lol lol Or maybe your's Geoff??? lol lol lol lol 

Courtney


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

San Antonio is nice and cold now, good for training.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> OK, OK! lol lol Jeff- you are becoming my hero! Can I come live in your doghouse???? lol lol lol Or maybe your's Geoff??? lol lol lol lol
> 
> Courtney


Our Doghouse is under 3 feet of snow now. Though the spare bedroom is open LOL! Buy a parka and give me 48 hours notice!


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

OK, I'll hit San Antonio first and then on to CAnada!!!! lol lol lol 

I'll have to fly home first and get my dogs!!! 

Courtney


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