# How do you control the people?



## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

When you're out socializing a puppy, how do you deal with the people coming up and "training" your puppy for you?

You know the people, the ones who tell the pup to sit and down and then feed their own cookies, whether or not the pup did as asked. Can't decide if that one or the people "enforcing" their own rules about jumping or not jumping are more annoying. I think the former because it's not like anyone else has ever prevented my puppy from jumping on them to begin with so in effect it's still teaching the pup their words are worthless. And they look like fools. :twisted:

Does it matter depending on what purpose the puppy has? (PPD, PSD, sport?) Do you care if your dog listens to other people or not?


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Thats rude on thier part, so be rude back. Tell them to leave your dog alone. I'm a prick when it comes to people (outside the club) interacting with my dogs. What if some sick bastard fed your pup poison and you were too nice to tell them to leave your pup alone?

If I had kids, I wouldnt let just a random person tell them what to do and stick food in their mouth either.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

I used to get cut up about it, the only people that do its are pet/show people.

I'm not worr about it now, i just let my pup go. They never seen anything like him and he gets so wound up and starts treating them like a prey toy they always be looking for out.

It's a fun game i play, my pup has no respect, everything and everyone is just there for his amusement, it's great to watch


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Brian McQuain said:


> If I had kids, I wouldnt let just a random person tell them what to do and stick food in their mouth either.


That's pretty much my take on it. I wouldn't walk up to someone's kid and start feeding them or telling them to do shit, so why do it to mine???


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> That's pretty much my take on it. I wouldn't walk up to someone's kid and start feeding them or telling them to do shit, so why do it to mine???


 
Exactly! So enforce that when you see it about to happen.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Stop giving bad advice, my method is way funner and good for drive building.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Brian McQuain said:


> Exactly! So enforce that when you see it about to happen.


Oh I know what I do, just wondering what other people do. Depending on the age I'll usually correct the dog for not paying attention to me (sends people on quite a guilt trip when they think they've caused the poor puppy to get a correction) or flat out say good bye and walk away from them, calling my pup and continuing work. Or if they're trying to interrupt the middle of a training session I'll just ignore them. Again, I don't see myself going up to someone's desk and getting between their monitor and their face, so just what the hell?

(Yea Peter I've done yours too. My last pup wasn't worthy, but my Dutchie sure was fun to sit back and watch!)


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Stop giving bad advice, my method is way funner and good for drive building.


My method is the funnest.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

From the minute that I introduce a new pup to the club I control that situation. No food to be given by them - I will not let people walk to the pup but I bring the pup to them - and if they don't like the pup jumping and puppy bitting them then don't try to pet him. Lastly if they want to pet him I tell them to pet him under the chin. 

If they don't like the rules that I set - They have 2 options 
1. Build a bridge and get over it 
2. Don't pet the puppy


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

For you, but think about the lost training opportunity lol.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Jackie speaking Dutchies - No one wants to pet my new pup either hahahahhahaha


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

Train the dog in French or German. That will frustrate people as your dog won't respond. 

Buy him a toy rubber rat that he gets to carry on your social outings with him. I assure you no one will want to touch him.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Shane Woodlief said:


> From the minute that I introduce a new pup to the club I control that situation.


Do you ever socialize outside of your training club?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Brian McQuain said:


> If I had kids, I wouldnt let just a random person tell them what to do and stick food in their mouth either.


Can you imagine if you treated a strangers kid the way some strangers treat puppies????? 

"OH AREN'T YOU A CUTE LITTLE KID, HERE KID, COME HERE, SIT RIGHT HERE WHILE I RUN MY HANDS ALL OVER YOUR HAIR. HERE KID HAVE SOME CANDY!"


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

For me I turn it into a training oppertunity. My dog naturally didn't like anyone touching him. So if an adult wanted to pet him, I'd just say don't pet him on the top of the head. My dog would usually let them pet once then he'd walk away. I'd just tell them he's not a petting kinda dog. When kids ask, I put the dog in a down and let them pet him. I don't have kids so it my way of socializing the dog with kids, which has much improved his behavior around them. I don't want him to ever see kids as a threat. As for adults he can behave as he does, I enjoy the look on peoples faces when he walks away after only one or two pets. "My lab would lick you to death for a pet, what wrong with your dog?" He, he.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Do you ever socialize outside of your training club?



Jackie,

Not answering for Shane but I socialize working puppies with working people. Which usually means a training club situation.
JQP tend to do too many stupid things with puppies. That it is just not worth the risk IMO
When my dogs are older they tolerate people when I tell them


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Do you ever socialize outside of your training club?


Yes - even then though I try to control the situation as much as possible to make it a very positive one for the pup. Social is social if that makes since I like the word exposer - I like to expose my pups to a lot of things and situations not always just people if that makes since.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Can you imagine if you treated a strangers kid the way some strangers treat puppies?????
> 
> "OH AREN'T YOU A CUTE LITTLE KID, HERE KID, COME HERE, SIT RIGHT HERE WHILE I RUN MY HANDS ALL OVER YOUR HAIR. HERE KID HAVE SOME CANDY!"


 
lmao...nice


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## Kelly Godwin (Jul 25, 2011)

Jackie Lockard said:


> When you're out socializing a puppy, how do you deal with the people coming up and "training" your puppy for you?
> 
> You know the people, the ones who tell the pup to sit and down and then feed their own cookies, whether or not the pup did as asked. Can't decide if that one or the people "enforcing" their own rules about jumping or not jumping are more annoying. I think the former because it's not like anyone else has ever prevented my puppy from jumping on them to begin with so in effect it's still teaching the pup their words are worthless. And they look like fools. :twisted:
> 
> Does it matter depending on what purpose the puppy has? (PPD, PSD, sport?) Do you care if your dog listens to other people or not?


We take our mal pup with us everywhere for socialization. We are in a very dog-friendly area (Athens, GA) and there aren't many places where he can't go outside of the obvious. People here are also very courteous and ask if they can pet Viper rather than taking the liberty themselves. People who try to approach us to pet Viper or give him treats without asking are ignored. I'm not there to make friends, we are there to socialize our pup.

We try to avoid places where we know there are going to be dogs that we do not know. We want him around dogs that we know are stable and will provide him a positive experience to build on.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> When you're out socializing a puppy, how do you deal with the people coming up and "training" your puppy for you?


It's easy put a muzzle on the pup. Nothing scares the shit out of tree hugging Golden Doodle owners than a Jafco or Wire muzzle. 

When they ask "does the pup bite?" You just say "no" and walk away.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> It's easy put a muzzle on the pup. Nothing scares the shit out of tree hugging Golden Doodle owners than a Jafco or Wire muzzle.
> 
> When they ask "does the pup bite?" You just say "no" and walk away.


So is it safe to say you don't socialize young pups with people? 

Nice tip for the older dogs, though. That's starting tomorrow!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> So is it safe to say you don't socialize young pups with people?
> 
> Nice tip for the older dogs, though. That's starting tomorrow!


No I never said I don't socialize my pup with people. But I do *'control'* who I socialize them with, big difference. 

So my advice is just to not expose your pup to these types of scenarios in the first place.

It boggles my mind why people think it is needed to go into every dog park, Petstupid store on the planet to let their working/sport prospect pups be mauled by clueless cookie pushing imbeciles. Those are the places as a working dog pup owner needs to avoid like the plague. There really is to many things that can go wrong even just little things. For example the pup thinking other people are much more interesting than you, that's a biggy *you want the bond to be with you!* Not some mid 50's woman with a fedora hat and a purple boa with a pocket full of milk bones. To people actually physically hurting your pup whether they mean it or not let alone the parvo and other crap a pup can catch from other canines that have gone before him in that property. 

So really socialize the dog with your family 1st. 2nd at the field with your training director and decoys. 3rd group obedience .. rinse and repeat. 

The muzzle is funny the reactions I get from people. It's mostly fear, but sometimes people are curious, whatever it is the chumps stay back! LOL!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i take my pups out to football games/walmart/etc., but ppl approaching him/trying to treat him (like they do at an un-named major pet chain), i simply say "do NOT-he's in training". i allow kids to approach if they come slowly and agree to follow my instructions, and if an idiot asks "does he bite?" i say "not hard".

bottom line i try to get him out and about as much as i can, but ppl are NOT allowed to treat him, and he doesn't respond to ppl that try to give him commands.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> So really socialize the dog with your family 1st. 2nd at the field with your training director and decoys. 3rd group obedience .. rinse and repeat.


That was the answer I was looking for then. I can imagine the people's faces around here walking a little 8wk pup with a big ol' wire muzzle on his face. :twisted: The only thing I like to do regarding my dogs and pet stores is distraction training, not til they're older with their shots of course. Then I run into that problem ten-fold, although with older dogs people DO tend to be respectful and at least stare at a distance. But I run into the same thing walking down the sidewalk in a non-dog populated area just minding my own damn business. 

I've also raised SDs as pups and run into these issues at regular stores. Basket muzzle for those guys from now on.  I'll tell 'em the truth too...to keep YOU AWAY! LOL


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

I pick my battles. I tend to steer away from "dog lovers" at the mega chains and tend to go with dog people. One of my favorite places to socialize the pups... the gun range parking lot. Lots of people, noise, traffic, some who look at the dog, some who want to pet the dog nicely but usually not people who gush over the pup or want to pick it up. Usually there are a few well trained social dogs there as well more than happy to blow off a random pup in leau of chasing a bumper or a half frozen dead bird. 

Also if I ever get a slightly shy pup it's easy to adjust hours to not push too hard with too many people, too much noise, or even working in an empty parking lot.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

When I lived near the coast I used to take my cattle dog pups down to the fishermans harbour when the crayboats came in. Having worked as a deckie on a charter boat I knew quite a few of them. Plenty of action and lots of men working. The blokes had a very no nonsense approach to pups and I could rely on the fact that they generally had no inclination to feed and cuddlle the pups. Quite a few of them had reliable adult dogs waiting dockside for them so my pups got used to the general melee of other dogs and blokes. I could work at any distance my pups were comfortable with.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Jackie Lockard said:


> When you're out socializing a puppy, how do you deal with the people coming up and "training" your puppy for you?
> 
> You know the people, the ones who tell the pup to sit and down and then feed their own cookies, whether or not the pup did as asked. Can't decide if that one or the people "enforcing" their own rules about jumping or not jumping are more annoying. I think the former because it's not like anyone else has ever prevented my puppy from jumping on them to begin with so in effect it's still teaching the pup their words are worthless. And they look like fools. :twisted:
> 
> Does it matter depending on what purpose the puppy has? (PPD, PSD, sport?) Do you care if your dog listens to other people or not?


 You can never control what people do, but you can always stand up to them and tell them not to pet your dog. I have a service dog is a white fluffy and is really cute. People and kids always come to my dog for a pet and I would wave my hand "no" to them when they walk up to me. It works very well and often they just turn their backs on me. Problem solved!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Do you ever socialize outside of your training club?


"Socialize" to me means they have to accept any situation I put them in. It doesn't have to mean they meet and greet people or other dogs. 
When people ask about petting my dogs or "introducing" them to their dog I just say I don't allow it. If that doesn't sit well with them that's their problem.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

haven't had time to read any responses yet but my system is the same regardless of age and regardless of what i am wanting to accomplish when i am out with the dog ,,, or pup
I CONTROL the environment and space around my dog - TOTALLY

I control what happens or doesn't happen - TOTALLY
I want all my dogs; pups or adults to be totally NONreactive to whatever and whoever is going on around them

As i get better control in more proofed situations I modify this as needed depending on what i'm working on at the time 

this has worked for me for years - with all ages and types of dogs - particularly with pups and problem dogs

...and no dog i am ever with will ever be a demo dog, petting machine or treat eater for anyone, including my friends......but my goal of course is a social dog that is relaxed and confident and under control in public


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

after reading some i'd like to add a muzzle note

i love em and use em all the time
if the dog i'm with hasn't been properly conditioned to wear a muzzle and drink from it i do that first

then i will muzzle it just to give it more space it often needs and keep people away from it.....helps me control the environment without having to try
- works great in that mode (space maker)

i prefer clear jafcos with more breathing/drinking holes added but also keep some for other type work not around public places
- when i condition a dog to drink i use deep pails rather than a shallow water bowl to prevent the dog from banging its nose on the bottom, which often sends a frustrating signal to the dog that they "can't drink" ... they need to learn how to allow the muzzle to fill with water and the ones who are not the sharpest blade in the drawer "don't get it" very quick


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> When you're out socializing a puppy, how do you deal with the people coming up and "training" your puppy for you?
> 
> You know the people, the ones who tell the pup to sit and down and then feed their own cookies, whether or not the pup did as asked. Can't decide if that one or the people "enforcing" their own rules about jumping or not jumping are more annoying. I think the former because it's not like anyone else has ever prevented my puppy from jumping on them to begin with so in effect it's still teaching the pup their words are worthless. And they look like fools. :twisted:
> 
> Does it matter depending on what purpose the puppy has? (PPD, PSD, sport?) Do you care if your dog listens to other people or not?


I would never let any I did not know feed my dog anything, unless I agreed to it...like the lady at petsmart..they ask first..and certainly do not involve anyone in the OB like that..I would stop it before it happened..


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

My friends can pet my dog if they want, but not strangers. I feel no obligation to satisfy some strangers need to touch a dog, let alone feed it.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

maybe i'm weird or overconfident, but when i'm working with dogs who have aggression (people biting) problems i make every effort to get the dog in public specifically so people CAN feed it.

i have worked out my own VERY controlled way of doing this and like to think i am very safety conscious. so i'm constantly looking for the right type of "training aid" person to do it with, and it doesn't always mean male or female; or age related
- people who are overly "dog friendly" are automatically excluded 
- in almost every case the reason the dog had developed such a bad problem in the first place is because the owner isolated the dog and/or denied the problem existed

never had a problem in quite a few years ... hope i'm not jinxing myself 

touching or petting ? NEVER for me in any training situation, with anyone, until the dog is totally reliable ... that is always the absolute last thing i allow and is WAY down in the final proofing stages


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