# Spinal Sensitivity



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Yasko has always been pretty sensitive to the touch, I just thought it was the way he was. He's quick to bite your hand if you pet him anywhere other than his head or neck.

When he pees, I always notice he doesn't stretch out as far as Tiko, like he's hunched up a little bit. Never thought much of it, but I suppose it could be related to the below problem.

Today I was petting him along his spine and I noticed he'd duck down his back when my hand got to about mid-way of his spine. If I put any pressure there he lies down to avoid the pressure. If I persist and push on it firmly he lets out a whine and bites my hand. Its right around the same spot every time, and only that spot. Not like I'm pushing that hard either.

Before I make the haul down to the University of Liege for x-rays, I'd like to see if this sounds similar to anyone elses experiences. This is a dog that LOVES to jump, I can't keep his paws on the ground when there's a toy or food or anything. He runs back and forth in the kennel run and slams himself into the dividing wall about 300 times a day.

I kinda feel like this has been a long time problem that I've just not noticed, but it could be recent too I guess?

I've had so many damn medical problems with my dogs this past year that I am hesitant to call my vet yet again over something that I may not even have to worry about.


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Call the vet, and let her take x-rays. Sounds like he maybe has a moved joint or something. Backs and giving signals of discomfort are for me a big red sign.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

OK thankyou. Will call her in a minute.

Edit: Called the clinic in Leuven that did Lyka's operation when she was bloating, they seemed better equipped to deal with x-rays and such. Appointment at 2030. Will post back with results.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Mike, I hope the pup is OK, please post as soon as you can. I agree with Selena and if it is a disc issue, you want it to be corrected ASAP, so better to have it checked out.


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

If the x-rays don't show much, perhaps visit a good chiropractor? I've seen a pretty dramatic difference in a dog after only a couple of "adjustments", as far as running and junmping...

Hope he is OK...


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

WTF!

I took him to the vet, and the vet put all kinds of pressure on his spine and not a peep out of Yasko.

I get home, I run my hand along his spine and push down similar to before n he jumps up and squeels in pain.

Either the vet didn't "hit the right spot" or its not something I should worry about. So, now I dunno if I should just wait it out a few days or go back.

The fact that he jumps around without any problems makes me think it can't be too serious. Gotta love it when dogs start their day with the intent to make you look like an idiot


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> WTF!
> 
> I took him to the vet, and the vet put all kinds of pressure on his spine and not a peep out of Yasko.
> 
> ...


I would definitely take him back. Then you could do the touching.

As Sue says, if it's a disc that's, say, pressing on a nerve (and it would not necessarily always be doing it, as I understand it), then you want to fix it. A piece of a disc can even be causing a pinched nerve. I think that you totally don't want a cycle of an inflamed nerve to get started.


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Gotta love it when dogs start their day with the intent to make you look like an idiot


You know he spent the weekend planning that.....](*,) :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I am with Connie though, re-check.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> You know he spent the weekend planning that.....](*,) :lol: :lol: :lol:


And in fact, it might have been a group plan. He just drew the short straw.


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

hahahahhahahahahahahha... dat is wel echt wat voor jou, ja.

I'm with Conny to, re-check and x-ray anyway. If it is nothing, maybe chiropracter. But you can't be carefull enough with backs , esp. with GSD's...and both your puppys have a loooooong back.


----------



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

No advice here Mike but I hope all turns out well.


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> WTF!
> 
> I took him to the vet, and the vet put all kinds of pressure on his spine and not a peep out of Yasko.
> 
> I get home, I run my hand along his spine and push down similar to before n he jumps up and squeels in pain.


Do the x-rays anyway.

I had the same experience with Cyko. 10.5 wk old puppy that can't walk more than 1/2 block without limping and cries in pain at home, bouncing and jumping like nothing is wrong at the vet's. My regular vet even asked me why I brought him - he did see the problem in his gait when I trotted him back and forth though. When I took him to the specialist for an exam and x-rays a week later, he was all normal bouncing again. Diagnosis was OCD in both knees.  

Thankfully he seems to have recovered completely. Can't tell that anything was ever wrong with him.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I too have seen some dogs have remarkable results whith chiro. 

However with your dog's symptoms, I would not go to chiro without x-rays being done and a trusted vet consult.

Man...I hate mysterious health sh**


----------



## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I too have seen some dogs have remarkable results whith chiro.
> 
> 
> Man...I hate mysterious health sh**


I'm with you Jennifer, been there done that way too much in the past year.

Good luck Mike. Chiro and acupuncture have worked wonders for a few of my dogs but we always get x-rays first.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Terry Fisk said:


> I'm with you Jennifer, been there done that way too much in the past year.
> 
> Good luck Mike. Chiro and acupuncture have worked wonders for a few of my dogs but we always get x-rays first.


Absolutely, on the x-rays first.

I had what the doctor called a slipped disc (years ago), and he consulted with the chiropractor, who did whatever he did to the vertebrae in order for the disc to go back where it was supposed to be and stop poking partly out and doing something bad to the sciatic nerve. And it worked.

His explanation was that he moved apart the two vertebrae in order for the disc to be able to slide back in.

He also told me about a similar situation where they put the person into traction just for a day or so, which effectively pulled apart the two vertebrae in question and allowed that disc to slip back in between.

Interesting how as scary as the spinal column is, sometimes it can be a clear mechanical (or engineering) fix.

Anyway, here are a couple of good overviews:

http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=428

http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dspine.html

http://www.vetspecialists.co.uk/06_Animal_Welfare/Neurology_Facts/Slipped_Disc.html


----------



## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Mike I would suggest re check also, one of my boarders...a GSD only 4 years, I noticed a funny gait on him when his owners were dropping him off at the kennel and I questioned them...he seemed fine, running around swimming having a great time, but also when you touched his back he would kind of drop down...when they returned..they took them to their vet...nothing really showed...I suggested they follow with the local orthopedic specialist...they did...he thought it was the dogs knees and suggested MRI's...but that was not it...so ...another opinion was requested..they brought in a neurologist, the dog did indeed have a herniated disc... but surgery at this time, she actually does NOT recommend, and placed the dog on steroids..decreasing in dose...the dog appears well now, although the owners are keeping a very strict watch on him... they can't keep him from running or jumping, playing etc...unless they keep him locked in his crate- and they aren't going to do that...maybe in the future he will need surgery, but ...hopefully your dog will do well. Mo


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Thankyou Mo.

I did in fact go to my regular vet last night. Surprise surprise, she couldn't reproduce the problem either. She spent a good 5 minutes poking and prodding every part of his back.

Then I did it, and I heard them lil Yasko teeth go snap snap snap and him whining. The vet looked very surprised that he'd do it for me but not for her :lol: But I pushed a different way, so I guess I hit the right spot.

Anyway it is something at L6/L7 vertebrae's and she told me to put him on Metacam for 7 days for the inflamation, as well as a hot-pack 10 minutes a day for the next 2 weeks. Exercise: No pulling, but good brisk walks... not sure how to do that, he hasn't learnt leash manners yet for regular walks so it would be 100% pulling. No jumping or running. Swimming would be good, but nowhere to swim.

Then in 14 days if he still has problems, take him for a contrast xray at the specialist to check for a hernia.

I of course have also added him to Cujo's Glucosamine schedule, and he was already on Omega 3/Vit E before.

Hoepfully it's gone in 14 days, but something tells me I need to start looking for someone less ridiculous in pricing for contrast x-rays. $450 is a bit much for a single photo.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Mike,

I don't know how old he is but from the responses, fairly young. If he pulls on the collar - try a harness and see if you see any good results. 

I always thought the 6/7 disc was connected to Wobbler's Syndrome, mostly found in Great Danes and Dobermanns, i.e. neck.

That seems a lot of Euros for an X-Ray but on the other hand a lot of GSD handlers are having their dogs X-rayed for back problems, can be done whilst in the anaesthetic for hip X-Rays.

On a German Forum, the University of Giessen was mentioned for "free" or priceworthy X-Rays.

I paid CHF 400.- for an X-Ray on my Briard, diagnosed as Hip Displaysia - the dog was HD Free, at 11 years' old, only to be told by the vet I now visit, that he had Cauda Equina Syndrome. The University in Zürich never sent me the evaluation - I only had the Professor's opinion but my vet sent off for the reports. He tested this by sticiking a needle into his spine and the dog never murmured, plus when bending over his paw backwards, it took a long time to "return". His tail hung unnaturally but I hadn't noticed as this dog was not a "wagger".

We wanted the best for our old friend and didn't shy the cost but we were cheated.

Doesn't mean that you will be but have a "Google" first.

Good Luck
Gillian


----------



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I hate the wait involved with this kind of stuff. Fourteen days on pins and needles is tough. Good luck!


----------



## Sarah Mark (Jul 11, 2006)

L6/7 is lumbar (L) vertebrae, ie lower back, wobbler syndrome is cervical vertebrae, ie neck.

Mike, of course take your vets advice, but maybe just get some plain films soon (which should be a lot cheaper), and proceed to myelography only if needed? Or are you hoping to only have the one sedation/GA at a facility able to do contrast imaging if required?

Another possibility - the dog is 'trapped up' - muscle spasm in the spinal muscles - anti-inflammatories and hot packs will help.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Thankyou Mo.
> 
> I did in fact go to my regular vet last night. Surprise surprise, she couldn't reproduce the problem either. She spent a good 5 minutes poking and prodding every part of his back.
> 
> ...


Has digital radiology caught on over there as much? It's an extremely expensive investment if you're in private practice (not only for the actual machine, but for good software and a special monitor). Keeping in mind I haven't had radiology yet, contrast x-rays cost more because they use a contrast media (barium swallows and barium enemas are pretty common for GI stuff) and it's more labor intensive than simply putting the person or dog on their back and taking a film. Is this what they're doing?

http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/vmth/clientinfo/info/neuro/myelogram.html
http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=myelography&bhcp=1


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

If by Digital x-rays you mean where they are taken onto a computer instead of film then handed to me on a CDR, then yes, they have caught on here 

I think they did a contrast x-ray with Cujo, they did inject something into the area explained in your first link and I was under the impression that it was magical contrast syrum 

On the metacam I can't tell if his back is better or not, I will know next week when he's been off it for a few days. Unfortunately other than putting pressure on that point, he doesnt show symptoms.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Digital radiography is excellent and IMO easier to work with since the shot shows up instantly so you know right away if you need another instead of waiting for the film to develop. You can also play with the settings more easily for contrast than in traditional radiographs, which can be helpful for diagnostic purposes. It's just an enormous initial investment (60-100K+) and a lot of private practices in the States still can't afford it. Anywho, good luck and feel free to post the x-rays if you get a copy.


----------



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

The ongoing saga with my pup has led me to a possible narrowing of the L4-L5 vertebrae space. No idea if disc bulging is an issue, though I don't see how the disc could avoid bulging. 

Vet recommended seeing a Chiro specialist for dogs. 

Anyone had such issues? Looking for specific exercises to help keep things tight. Also wondering if certain massages or pressure have been effective?

Thanks,


----------

