# Payback Is Coming



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Many of you know I have a male and female Dutchie here. I rarely mention that I have a old female Lab in the household. My female Dutchie does not like her and it has been a strained relationship at best. The Lab is very submissive.

Occasionally I throw the ball with a Chuck It for all three dogs at the same time. It has never been a problem. 

Today the 2 females were chasing the ball and my Dutchie ran into a tree because the Lab kind of out muscled her for once. My Dutchie hurt her leg as a result.

Now every time my Dutchie comes in the house she hackles and stares down the old Lab at the top of the stairs.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is going on and what is coming next. I am paying very close attention.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

oh yeah - some "blaming" going on


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Sounds like she may be feeling the lab may have the upper hand on her due to her injury and needs to put on a show I don't think there are reasoning thoughts of pay back. 
Still could be trouble


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

It has been interesting watching this scenario play out today. My female is definitely not forgetting and she has decided to hold a grudge.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Sounds like she may be feeling the lab may have the upper hand on her due to her injury and needs to put on a show I don't think there are reasoning thoughts of pay back.
> Still could be trouble


I'm no dog shrink but I wonder about how much "reasoning" is going on.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Does anyone think dogs actually hold grudges? Or is something else going on here? I know some people on this board can hold a grudge but I don’t know If a dog can hold a grudge


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

they hold grudges - especially females


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I doubt theres an actual grudge thing going on here...as you said the relation between the 2 females was strenous to begin with....your dutchie female is in a vulnerable position right now...even tho the lab female might have been submissive in the past, this would be a perfect time to take over the lead in the household and the top female aint stupid, she knows this and is on her guard since she knows with her bad leg she wont be able to defend herself as well as she normaly would....i have serious doubts that grudges even come in to play....


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> I doubt theres an actual grudge thing going on here...as you said the relation between the 2 females was strenous to begin with....your dutchie female is in a vulnerable position right now...even tho the lab female might have been submissive in the past, this would be a perfect time to take over the lead in the household and the top female aint stupid, she knows this and is on her guard since she knows with her bad leg she wont be able to defend herself as well as she normaly would....i have serious doubts that grudges even come in to play....


All the "attitude" is the female Dutchie's. The Lab is in her usual area, at the top of the stairs, far from the two Dutchies. That is the way it always is when the Dutchies are in the house.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> All the "attitude" is the female Dutchie's. The Lab is in her usual area, at the top of the stairs, far from the two Dutchies. That is the way it always is when the Dutchies are in the house.


there doesnt have to be any attitiude from the lab in order for the dutchie to feel insecure...you can stick em in different rooms 24/7 they are still under the same roof living by your rules therefor part of your pack for lack of a better word...theres an imbalance right now and it will probably get cleared up by the dutchie asserting herself in her rightfull place...

but thats my point of view...i could be wrong but ive seen it in my house to many times to ignore the signs ;-)


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> they hold grudges - especially females


Ya? Can you give me an example? I just didn’t think dogs have the capability of a pay back. I always thought Lee really was a dog shrink but now he says he is not, I was hoping he can help.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> Does anyone think dogs actually hold grudges ?


I dunno but I'll tell you a story..last week I was out with my dog trying to do some heeling.

He was blowing me off and things weren't going well, I was trying to heel for a few feet and then a sit..after 3 of these reps instead of sitting he pissed on my leg.

I dunno :razz:


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

>>>I doubt theres an actual grudge thing going on here...as you said the relation between the 2 females was strenous to begin with....your dutchie female is in a vulnerable position right now...even tho the lab female might have been submissive in the past, this would be a perfect time to take over the lead in the household and the top female aint stupid, she knows this and is on her guard since she knows with her bad leg she wont be able to defend herself as well as she normaly would....i have serious doubts that grudges even come in to play.... __________________



I am with this train of thought for sure, the ductchie is injured therefore more vulernable , therefore on guard ,


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I dunno but I'll tell you a story..last week I was out with my dog trying to do some heeling.
> 
> He was blowing me off and things weren't going well, I was trying to heel for a few feet and then a sit..after 3 of these reps instead of sitting he pissed on my leg.
> 
> I dunno :razz:


 
That don’t count everyone pisses on your leg
I still like the story about you pissing in hotel ice machines though


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## Alan Fielding (Dec 7, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I dunno but I'll tell you a story..last week I was out with my dog trying to do some heeling.
> 
> He was blowing me off and things weren't going well, I was trying to heel for a few feet and then a sit..after 3 of these reps instead of sitting he pissed on my leg.
> 
> I dunno :razz:


He was blowing you off BECAUSE he needed to take a piss! Handler error!!![-X


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> That don’t count everyone pisses on your leg


I dunno, maybe it smells like a telephone pole..it's about the same size :razz:

My dog has pissed on just about everybody I know that has been close enough, a genetic fault I suppose :lol:


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> My dog has pissed on just about everybody I know that has been close enough, a genetic fault I suppose :lol:


Environment is everything ;-)~ :mrgreen::razz:


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Ya? Can you give me an example? I just didn’t think dogs have the capability of a pay back. I always thought Lee really was a dog shrink but now he says he is not, I was hoping he can help.


Not in the human sense of "grudge" - dogs see it as unfinished business and a fight you break up now will generally be finished by the dogs later.
Dogs bumping or shouldering even while it is sometimes accidental is how dogs test and jockey to assert their position. While the old lab might have just been intent on getting the ball the dutchie female has definitely taken it as a challenge - she's feeling she was dissed and if she tries to settle scores would not be a surprise. Some dogs can have pretty long memories for this stuff.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> Not in the human sense of "grudge" - dogs see it as unfinished business and a fight you break up now will generally be finished by the dogs later.
> Dogs bumping or shouldering even while it is sometimes accidental is how dogs test and jockey to assert their position. While the old lab might have just been intent on getting the ball the dutchie female has definitely taken it as a challenge - she's feeling she was dissed and if she tries to settle scores would not be a surprise. Some dogs can have pretty long memories for this stuff.


 
Ah, thankks


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> Not in the human sense of "grudge" - dogs see it as unfinished business and a fight you break up now will generally be finished by the dogs later.
> Dogs bumping or shouldering even while it is sometimes accidental is how dogs test and jockey to assert their position. While the old lab might have just been intent on getting the ball the dutchie female has definitely taken it as a challenge - she's feeling she was dissed and if she tries to settle scores would not be a surprise. Some dogs can have pretty long memories for this stuff.



Good post Lynn!
They don't hold a grudge. They just remember to hate for a long time. :-D :wink:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I liked that post too. I know this dog. I don't believe she is threatened that the Lab is going to challenge her pack position. I think she is pissed off and wants to settle up.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

This is the second day since the "event". As soon as my Dutchie enters the house she looks for the passive Lab and heads straight in that direction. It is obvious to me she wants to fight.

A couple of times I intentionally allowed her to get close to the Lab to see the reaction. When she got within 3 feet she hacked and started to growl before I diffused the situation.

I will play the game for a few more days and then out comes the old ecollar.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Heck Lee,

Every post you've ever mentioned her in indicates what a bitch she is. I noticed the lack of surprise in your post. LOL 

The old man seized the opportunity for a little payback. There's going to be hell to pay though! I hope he enjoyed it while he could...

Fun to watch the primal dynamics though, eh? Sorta makes ya feel alive.

Tim


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Females of all types hold grudges for eternity its a known fact. :---)


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Tim Lynam said:


> Heck Lee,
> 
> Every post you've ever mentioned her in indicates what a bitch she is. I noticed the lack of surprise in your post. LOL
> 
> ...


It is very interesting to witness even though it's a pain in the ass. I never thought she would have this type of reaction. 

There is zero challenging going on by this Lab. That's why the Lab stays outside the family circle whenever my dogs are around.

I don't believe my Dutchie has any fear of getting challenged for higher rank.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Ben Thompson said:


> Females of all types hold grudges for eternity its a known fact. :---)


I never thought of that. Maybe she learned this from my wife.:smile:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

When I was younger a real wise man at the bar once told me not to trust any animal that bleeds once a month and doesn’t die. That the devil sent them


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

I miss my ex-wife, but; my aim is getting better!


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