# Working Presa Kennel?



## Ryan Weigle

I'm looking for a working Presa Canario kennel. I really like the breed. Anyone recommend a good kennel?


----------



## Joby Becker

contact Mark Banks, closest thing to working Presa enthusiast/breeder in the states right now, I'd say.

oustide the states there are a few breeders concentrating on "working Presa"

depends on what you mean by "working Presa"

what are your goals for the dog?


----------



## Ryan Weigle

My goals are to train for personal protection. I had a young male that I really like that developed severe health issues and had to be put down. Dog sports would be possible but not likely. There aren't any local clubs that I know of, especially for an off breed. There are tons of kennels online and all the dogs are great for this type of work......for some reason most of them don't work their dogs. That doesn't stop them from asking some prett silly puppy prices though. Where is Mark Banks from? Thanks for the reply.

Ryan


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

http://www.red-star-kennel.com/performance.shtml

Facebook: Arne Pohlmeyer http://www.dogo-canario.biz/

The second website, they have lots of vids on youtube...plus they have a lot of experience working herders too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLIezBiGXW8

Good luck in your search


----------



## Ryan Weigle

Thank you.

Ryan


----------



## Leon Sampson

Mark Banks of Harijan Kennels located in Maryland


----------



## Zakia Days

I recommend looking into Red Star Kennel. Mark Keating, who I believe is the proprietor, is very informed regarding the breed. Good luck with your search.


----------



## Ryan Weigle

I really appreciate the replies and will look into all of them. Thank you all.
Ryan


----------



## lannie dulin

Vigilant Kennels is doing a breeding soon. Deb works her presas and is closest thing I've seen to a "sport presa". She's got some good vid's of her male working legs on her page. More importantly she does health testing (hips, elbows, and heart). Mark banks doesn't. Mark Keaton does health testing as well and works his dogs too. He also had the only presa(s) with French ring titles. I actually got my mal from Mark Keaton and she's turning out to be top notch. So obviously I like his program. I just like Deb's presa program better because she does multiple sports with her's (including weight pull). 

https://www.facebook.com/Heaxe?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/Vigilantk9?fref=ts


----------



## Ryan Weigle

Thanks, I might have to get a Facebook page so I can check those out. I'm the last guy without one...lol

Ryan


----------



## lannie dulin

Ryan Weigle said:


> Thanks, I might have to get a Facebook page so I can check those out. I'm the last guy without one...lol
> 
> Ryan


Oh yeah, do that man. That will be the best way to research presa breeders. When you go to Deb's facebook page check the groups she's in and her friends list. Talk to the other presa people she has there and join the groups. You'll get a lot more feedback than you will on a general forum. 

Only problem is presa is not many of them really work but a ton of owners claim they do and post a few short clips and pics as proof. One of the things I liked about Deb is she posted a 8 minute vid of her male working on control and leg bites, no editing. You can hear the commands and all that. If you want to do sport then save yourself some stress and headache and get a Mal. 

Hope this helped.


----------



## Joby Becker

Ryan,

The best way to research Presa Canario is NOT Facebook, or listening too hard to advice from people on the internet period.

The best way to research working Presa Canario is to visit kennels and test the dogs yourself, or bring a qualified trainer with you.

Especially if you are talking about getting a dog that might possibly be called upon to actually protect you, or fill a serious role as a protection dog.

That being said, the breeding that Lannie mentioned looks like it should be a good breeding to INVESTIGATE further. Th


----------



## Daniel Lybbert

Red Star Kennel has wicked presas. It is actually Irina's dogs. They have put tones of time into them.
Mark and Irina are the most honest people out there also.


----------



## Joby Becker

Ryan,

The best way to research Presa Canario is NOT Facebook, or listening too hard to advice from people on the internet period.

The best way to research working Presa Canario is to visit kennels and test the dogs yourself, or bring a qualified trainer with you.

Especially if you are talking about getting a dog that might possibly be called upon to actually protect you, or fill a serious role as a protection dog.

That being said, the breeding that Lannie mentioned looks like it should be a good breeding to INVESTIGATE further. Those two dogs should match up pretty nicely. 

Lamonts Dog is straight Curto blood, Deb's dog is Curto on the bottom.

The thing that would make me think about it more is all the show blood on the top of Boz's pedigree, it almost all leads back to Urco Coliseum and Mayantigot blood... and TRUST ME on this, Urco was used alot, because of his looks, NOT because of any redeeming health or temperament qualities. 

I was a charter member of the Presa Canario Club of America and talked with Gomez when he was president of the CEPRC for several hours one on one in the 90's, and personally would have to really really really really like an individual dog to even consider buying another dog that had very much influence from any of those popular CEPRC foundation dogs. 

We tested alot of dogs back then, and dogs from those breedings were pretty much the worst in character and health. But hey, they looked good, if you didnt watch to closely when they moved.


----------



## Joby Becker

Lannie please stop telling lies about people.

You have a lot of nerve to blast out on the internet that Mark Banks does not do any health testing on his breeding dogs. 

Did you pull this thought out of your ass? and decide to post it?


----------



## Joby Becker

Joby Becker said:


> Ryan,
> 
> The best way to research Presa Canario is NOT Facebook, or listening too hard to advice from people on the internet period.
> 
> The best way to research working Presa Canario is to visit kennels and test the dogs yourself, or bring a qualified trainer with you.
> 
> Especially if you are talking about getting a dog that might possibly be called upon to actually protect you, or fill a serious role as a protection dog.
> 
> That being said, the breeding that Lannie mentioned looks like it should be a good breeding to INVESTIGATE further.


addition.

The thing about that Vigilant breeding that would make me real hesitant is the bottom half of the females pedigree, its all CEPRC SHOW STOCK. all goes back to Urco and Mayantigot... 

Lamonts dog is 100% Curto, as is the top half of the female...hopefully that is enough to override the bottom half..

I was charter member of the Presa Canario Club of America and talked one on one with then CEPRC President Antonio Gomez in the late 90's for hours...

I would probably never again by dogs from those popular show breeding studs in the CEPRC, Urco was used A LOT...he was bred for his looks. and thats about it...we tested lots and lots of dogs back then, and the Urco and other popular CEPRC stuff at the time were producing the absolute worst in character and health.. Urco looked good, if you didnt watch too closely when and if he moved...almost all those dogs from those lines back then were real real crappy (as functional dogs with strong character and good health)

I would have to absolutely love the dog to buy it from those lines, and probably would never buy a pup, but would consider young/grown adult if I never intended on breeding it....

Lannie is a liar, so please be careful who you take advice from, and take it with a grain of salt... with presas, titles and sport work are ok, but truly testing the functional character is far better, especially if dog is to be counted on in real life.

Mark Banks xrays all of his breeding stock and offers a 4 year guarantee against hip dysplasia, which is unheard of in the Presa world...
He also tests all of his dogs for correct character, and works them rigorously. Does not produce a lot of dogs, but I would consider him as a great source of knowledge and an excellent person to contact when looking for a functional "working" presa...even if he doesn't have anything, he is a wealth of knowledge on whats out there currently.


----------



## Leon Sampson

I agree that Mark Banks consistently produces presa with the character and physical attributes to excel at personal protection. MB/Harijan Kennel stock is well tested and prodcues working in each litter. I'm no longer involved with presa's but imported several back in the 90's. 

If i were looking for a working presa mark banks would be the only kennel i would look at state side. Of course Arne, De La Arena, and the Iron Bulls of the world of available if your are interested in importing. RedStar was one of the early working presa kennels however in my opinion the current litters pale in comparison to what used to be produced in the 90s/2000s. 

I personnally have observed (closely) the product of a 2011/12 breeding that according to Irina needs another 2 years of maturing before he is capable of work. Whereas, I have personally observed Harijan litters over that past 3 years that all produced consitent working dogs.


----------



## Deb Vigil

Well I'm gonna chime in.. You are not gonna find many kennels out there that do the following in the Presa/Dogo world- HEALTH TEST
- TEMPERMENT TEST
- TITLE IN ANYTHING
- MEETS STRUCTURE / STANDARDS
- REGISTRATION PAPERS UNLIKE SOME OF THE NAMES MENTIONED DONT GIVE REGISTRATION PAPERS 


I am not here to slam anyone but if you Ryan would like to talk to me about anything on Presas I'll be happy to talk to you rather you want a pup from me or not. I am not a big breeder, I breed for me. Joby is correct on my lineage but he also fails to mention how much work is into my female, her mother (the show lines, who is a straight working dog) or her father who is out of Curto (but is really a show dog, but owner has put a few bite titles on).. My female Xade has many working titles and has been tested if she is for real. I have many decoys/trainers who have worked her & can give anyone info on my female. Her son Anabis is very confident, loves to work and is going for a Mondio Ring 1 title will be the 1st Presa to get it if he passes. I am working on having a nice working line of Presas but this takes time.
Now going to the sire I chose to breed to. Yes the breeder he got him from mainly shows but both parents have working titles as well. Owner of him is working on SchH titles. 
Curto has some nice old lines but fell in the trap of breeding what the mass wants, a bigger dog instead of staying to what his dogs where good at working. This all being said minus the breeder overseas De La Arena who has generations of Presas that have worked with titles (not that there isn't other that work dogs) you will not find a Kennel here in the states who can claim the same not mark or red star. (No insult to them at all) we have this breed who needs more folks who want to get them out and actually work them. 
So also to tell you I am the person who has started the Working Presa Canario Assoc (WPCA) to get this breed recognized by AWDF so this beloved breed can be excepted as a working dog in there eyes. I hope to continue to get it off the ground and for it to happen. 
Anyway, hope you find the pup you are looking for and I get to judge him/her sometime for the WPCA 




Deb


----------



## Ron Coleman

Here's a Mark Banks presa at around 5 moths old in the video 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2gmxVPfJUI

Tibet, sire of the pup above. Iron Bull lines. at least 3 generations of working Presa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vIUKhaWw5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQCTL-DwW78


----------



## Brian Anderson

good luck with your hunt. It will prove to be easier to find hens teeth than a really good working presa. The whole presa/dogo canario drama is to much for me,,, get a good herder and be happy! Other than that contact Todd up in Canada ,, he has some pretty tight dogs but does very few breedings.


----------



## Brian Anderson

Red Star has been out of the Presa dogs for a while .. they are more into mals and poodles ,,, mark is a cool guy!


----------



## Ben Thompson

Its hard to work with a dog that big that is also quite dog aggressive. They will kill my shepherd otherwise I would consider getting one.


----------



## Ryan Weigle

The more calls I make the closer I am to buying a Dutch Shepherd.


----------



## Brian Anderson

Ryan Weigle said:


> The more calls I make the closer I am to buying a Dutch Shepherd.


you will be a lot more pleased with the workability of a DS or Mal or GSD... especially if you want to do bite sports and such .


----------



## David Baker

Another vote for Mark Banks. Mark is a good friend of mine. I was up training with him and HCK9 this past weekend. He's got 1 pup left from his last litter. Did a repeat litter from Tibet and Jetta. The first litter produced one of the best puppies ive ever seen. Pups name is Jesus. Dog is a nut job. Awesome dog. You need to talk to Mark and no one else.


----------



## Brian Anderson

David Baker said:


> Another vote for Mark Banks. Mark is a good friend of mine. I was up training with him and HCK9 this past weekend. He's got 1 pup left from his last litter. Did a repeat litter from Tibet and Jetta. The first litter produced one of the best puppies ive ever seen. Pups name is Jesus. Dog is a nut job. Awesome dog. You need to talk to Mark and no one else.


Mark is a great guy as well as is Irena ...they will also be the first to advise a person against a presa for any kind of sport. I agree with them 100% but if a person were hellbent to own one Id suggest either them or Todd Blas in Canada.. I have tested presas all over the US ... good luck finding a good stable one with working drives.


----------



## Brian Anderson

Ryan a pretty cool story about Presas... a friend of mine who is a KNPV decoy in Holland was giving a seminar last year. He called me and sent me pictures of a Presa a guy had brought to the seminar ... he said he literally tore his freaking suit off and the dog got so stupidly out of hand they had to tell him to leave LOL ... back to my point of who wants to catch a 150lber lol


----------



## David Baker

^ive caught a 140lbr. did not feel good. Had a gauntlet on, and it felt like i was catching the hardest biting herder withOUT a gauntlet. He could have fit 3 of my arms in his mouth. Keep in mind, im 160lbs. That dog did what he wanted to with me. It was all i could do to stand on my feet. he pushed me around like a shopping cart. Its a dog named Kane, in the club i go to in Maryland. Mark's club.


----------



## Ron Coleman

David Baker said:


> ^ive caught a 140lbr. did not feel good. Had a gauntlet on, and it felt like i was catching the hardest biting herder withOUT a gauntlet. He could have fit 3 of my arms in his mouth. Keep in mind, im 160lbs. That dog did what he wanted to with me. It was all i could do to stand on my feet. he pushed me around like a shopping cart. Its a dog named Kane, in the club i go to in Maryland. Mark's club.


Is this Dave the owner of Major? this is Sonny B. Kane is the 140 Cane Corso that had your shoulder, elbow, and wrist in his mouth at the same time. don't tell anyone my government name. lol


----------



## Ben Thompson

Brian Anderson said:


> Ryan a pretty cool story about Presas... a friend of mine who is a KNPV decoy in Holland was giving a seminar last year. He called me and sent me pictures of a Presa a guy had brought to the seminar ... he said he literally tore his freaking suit off and the dog got so stupidly out of hand they had to tell him to leave LOL ... back to my point of who wants to catch a 150lber lol


I do not believe I would mess with that dog. hehehe


----------



## Brian Anderson

Ben Thompson said:


> I do not believe I would mess with that dog. hehehe


Ben I didnt see video ... but he sent me some pics that his wife had taken ... it was funny (although Im sure not at the moment)... he said he kept thinking the dog had a short muzzle and wouldnt be able to dig in ... lol


----------



## Ryan Weigle

I'm pretty sure I left mark a message, I will have to try again. I've talked to 6 or 8 breeders so far and haven't found what I'm looking for. Thanks again guys. I bet catching 150 pounder is pretty painful.......even if it forgot to bite...


----------



## Brian Anderson

Ryan Weigle said:


> I'm pretty sure I left mark a message, I will have to try again. I've talked to 6 or 8 breeders so far and haven't found what I'm looking for. Thanks again guys. I bet catching 150 pounder is pretty painful.......even if it forgot to bite...


Best of luck to you brother ... I hope you find what your looking for!


----------



## Ryan Weigle

I talked to Mark, he seems like a real good guy. I'm going to go check out his dogs, he wasn't shy about showing them work. He does do health testing and it seems like he will really stand behind his dogs. Thanks for all of the info, I think it shortened my search. Hopefully I will be posting some pics next year.......

Ryan


----------



## lannie dulin

Ryan Weigle said:


> I talked to Mark, he seems like a real good guy. I'm going to go check out his dogs, he wasn't shy about showing them work. He does do health testing and it seems like he will really stand behind his dogs. Thanks for all of the info, I think it shortened my search. Hopefully I will be posting some pics next year.......
> 
> Ryan


Thanks for clearing up the health testing thing Ryan. I asked for clarification and never got a reply (via facebook). Like someone else said if you serious about a dog sport like Schutzhund a presa is the wrong breed. Your just fighting an uphill battle that you won't likely win. But if you just want a presa cuz you want a presa and you want to see how far you can get with one then have fun.


----------

