# Double Rabies Vaccination...



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

So I screwed up, sort of. Both my dogs were within regulation to move to the EU with their rabies shots (less than 12 months, older than 30 days), but the USDA ****tards are telling me that since the dogs were not microchipped prior to the rabies shot, that they are void and have to be redone, even though I called prior to having their rabies updated to inquire about it, and they told me they needed to be chipped and UTD on rabies...not chipped before the rabies.

Anyway, my dogs are going to the military vet clinic so I don't have to screw with the USDA anymore. It's become a BS hassle with them, and apparently I get a lot of this stuff free with the copy of my orders.

But the question is, my bitch just had her rabies shot on 7/31 and the male sometime in May. I'm bringing this proof into the mil vet, so I hope they can do something rather than give them a 2nd dose. But in the event that I'm screwed here, is giving a 2nd dose of the rabies vaccination that close (only a month or so old) a health risk?


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

Yes it would scare me . Can you get to a Holistic Vet and get homeopathic antidote? Would they accept titers instead of another vax?


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

yeah...no. They HAVE to have the rabies vaccination - I did get a suggestion on another forum that I call the vets who did the rabies vaccine and see if they'll reissue the rabies certs with the microchip #'s on them though.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> yeah...no. They HAVE to have the rabies vaccination - I did get a suggestion on another forum that I call the vets who did the rabies vaccine and see if they'll reissue the rabies certs with the microchip #'s on them though.


seems logically, should be co-operative in this situation unless they are jerks...


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## Tamara Champagne (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow, that is not an ideal situation!!! I would be a little worried about re-vacinating for sure, but if you do have to, give the homeopathic remedy for Rabies Vacinosis....I just bought some for a dog I just vaccinated (he's two years old and just getting his first rabies vaccine) It's called Thuya - but I believe there are other remedies that work as well. 

Good luck - hopefully you can just get those certs re-issued!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> seems logically, should be co-operative in this situation unless they are jerks...


 
Quite the contrary Joby!

I think you could have problems. Your dogs will need a passport for EU, it will require to be officially stamped with microchip number which must be implanted PRior to vaccination for rabies if I am correct....You mentioned you chipped diy at home...does that mean they are not officially recorded on a registered database (and dated ) ? Do your dogs have a passport each ?

I've a feeling you may have to start again... from the beginning forwards. I don't suppose your current skunk problem will be helping much either, that's quite a lot of bad luck, I wouldn't like to be in your shoes.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> Quite the contrary Joby!
> 
> I think you could have problems. Your dogs will need a passport for EU, it will require to be officially stamped with microchip number which must be implanted PRior to vaccination for rabies if I am correct....You mentioned you chipped diy at home...does that mean they are not officially recorded on a registered database (and dated ) ? Do your dogs have a passport each ?
> 
> I've a feeling you may have to start again... from the beginning forwards. I don't suppose your current skunk problem will be helping much either, that's quite a lot of bad luck, I wouldn't like to be in your shoes.


You're right, the chipping was done at home, which was ok, just needed to be verified by the vet when they do the USDA pet passport. They're going back on the 8th and apparently my mil clinic said they can fix it for me.
The chips are officially recorded with HomeAgain (the manufacturer) with date of implant, so at least that part is done right, they may or may not have to have new rabies certs, we shall see. I called one vet today and they said they'd add the microchip ID number to the rabies cert for me - we will see if that flies.

It's been a real bad week so far, lol, I'm telling you, if it weren't bad luck, I'd have none at all.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> You're right, the chipping was done at home, which was ok, just needed to be verified by the vet when they do the USDA pet passport. They're going back on the 8th and apparently my mil clinic said they can fix it for me.
> The chips are officially recorded with HomeAgain (the manufacturer) with date of implant, so at least that part is done right, they may or may not have to have new rabies certs, we shall see. I called one vet today and they said they'd add the microchip ID number to the rabies cert for me - we will see if that flies.
> 
> It's been a real bad week so far, lol, I'm telling you, if it weren't bad luck, I'd have none at all.


PM Sent


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> > but the USDA ****tards are telling me that since the dogs were not microchipped prior to the rabies shot, that they are void and have to be redone, even though I called prior to having their rabies updated to inquire about it, and they told me they needed to be chipped and UTD on rabies...not chipped before the rabies.


My point is, how can the vet register at the time and date of rabies vax against the id of the dog if there was not a microchip (or tattoo) present? That I think is the theory that microchip must be PRior to vax... so as the registered identity is confirmed at time and place of rabies vax.

Anyway, hope you have a bit better luck!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

My experience with USDA is that if you try to cooperate, they will also cooperate. Honestly, they don't have enough manpower to futz around with stuff.

Is the dog tattooed? You vet could sign off that the dog s/he vaccinated was identified prior to vaccination by permanent tatto identification, so that there is not question that the rabies vaccine was given to YOUR dog.

I'm not sure what rule they are following, but USDA AWA Subpart 2.5(a)(2)(ii) permits "a distinctive and legible tattoo marking approved by the Administrator"

Now this is referring to people/facilities holding a Class A, B, or C USDA license, but I'm sure you could use it to have a legitimate case for them to accept tattoo as permanent identification. 

Also, I have heard of a vet giving a minute amount of vaccine in extenuating circumstances. For example, my mom's family was taking their dog to Canada on summer vacation. She had like 3 week old puppies. Vet in USA said no vaccines needed. Border patrol wouldn't let them in. They went to a vet at the border town that gave each pup a minute amount of vaccine and signed certificates.

Plus, with USDA, a letter from a veterinarian fixes EVERYTHING. For example, when I held a USDA Class C license, my house could not be considered a "primary enclosure." So their crates were considered that, but they were a little too small per AWA requirements. My vet wrote a letter that the small crate sizes were to "promote rest" between performances. Never had a problem with inspections.

USDA might accept a vaccine waiver. But your vet would have to write a letter stating that "the risk of giving the additional vaccine...blah, blah, blah... the intent of the regulation is to protect animals and public health, but is endangering the health of this individual animal....blah, blah, blah... and certify that s/he vaccinated this dog x number of days before microchip was implanted, clinic confirmed microchip ID #..."

You get the point. :lol:


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

Tamara Champagne said:


> Wow, that is not an ideal situation!!! I would be a little worried about re-vacinating for sure, but if you do have to, give the homeopathic remedy for Rabies Vacinosis....I just bought some for a dog I just vaccinated (he's two years old and just getting his first rabies vaccine) It's called Thuya - but I believe there are other remedies that work as well.
> 
> Good luck - hopefully you can just get those certs re-issued!


 
Actually for rabies its better to use Lyssin not Thuya (that's for the other vaccinations)


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Anne Vaini said:


> My experience with USDA is that if you try to cooperate, they will also cooperate. Honestly, they don't have enough manpower to futz around with stuff.
> 
> Is the dog tattooed? You vet could sign off that the dog s/he vaccinated was identified prior to vaccination by permanent tatto identification, so that there is not question that the rabies vaccine was given to YOUR dog.
> 
> ...


I've done my part with cooperating, I called in advance, was told something completely different, and then during the last call, got this whole story. I've also been very polite instead of being nasty when they pissed me off. But, all the same, I don't have to personally deal with the USDA, the Army will handle that part for me as apparently we have a few different rules and whatnot - and the stuff is free through the mil vet instead of $70 through the USDA office.

The thing was, the vet wouldn't have known had the dogs been chipped or not. It wasn't on the paperwork, I told them what i needed, they never asked or scanned - so I think that might be my scape goat of "well the dog was chipped it just didn't end up on the paperwork" :-\"
The one office I called is going to reissue the cert with the microchip ID - they said I can pick it up on Tuesday and all they require is they scan the dog to certify he's chipped. They still have their other appt in Sept. so I'm going to bring in the new certs and if it flies, it flies, if it doesn't, they get new shots.


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## Tamara Champagne (Jan 20, 2009)

Mary Buck said:


> Actually for rabies its better to use Lyssin not Thuya (that's for the other vaccinations)


Thanks Mary, good to know! Have you actually used that homeopathic on a dog showing signs of a reaction to the vaccine? I've never had a dog have any problems, but I know it can happen more than we think.


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