# AKC and WDA



## Bob Scott

I was sent this as an e-mail if anyone is interested.

I couldn't copy and paste the forms it mentions but they are probably on the AKC site or through the number at the bottom.

*
Subject: **Fw: Working Dog Titles Earned in the Past*


 More good news on our partnership with WDA

This is to inform you that the AKC Board has approved a recommendation that AKC acknowledge Working Dog titles earned since 1991. These titles must have been earned in events held by the endorsed working dog organization. Only titles that have been approved by the AKC Board will be acknowledged. Titles must be applied for by the owner on the form provided by the AKC.

Attached are the Title Application form, an instruction sheet, and a list of the endorsed working dog organizations by breed and the titles recognized at this time. The mailing address for submitting Applications is shown on the form.

The Performance Events Department is very pleased with this decision and feels it is a positive step in recognizing the working skills of the breeds involved.

Doug Ljungren
AVP of Performance Events
Phone: <skype:span id="softomate_highlight_0" onmouseup="javascript:skype_tb_imgOnOff(this,1,'0',true,16,'',0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" class="skype_tb_injection" onmouseover="javascript:skype_tb_imgOnOff(this,1,'0',true,16,'',0);" title="Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +19198163903" onmouseout="javascript:skype_tb_imgOnOff(this,0,'0',true,16,'',0);" onmousedown="javascript:skype_tb_imgOnOff(this,2,'0',true,16,'',0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" onclick="javascript:skype_tb_doRunCMD('call','0',null,0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" iamrtl="1" context="919-816-3903" durex="0" skypeaction="call" skypeid="0"><skype:span id="skype_tb_img_r0" class="skype_tb_imgR"></skype:span><skype:span id="skype_tb_text0" class="skype_tb_injectionIn"><skype:span id="skype_tb_innerText0" class="skype_tb_innerText"> 919-816-3903 </skype:span></skype:span><skype:span id="skype_tb_img_s0" class="skype_tb_imgS"></skype:span><skype:span style="background-image: url("file://C:/Users/Kate/AppData/Local/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif");" id="skype_tb_droppart_0" onmouseup="javascript:doSkypeFlag(this,'0',1,1,16,0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" class="skype_tb_imgA" onmouseover="javascript:doSkypeFlag(this,'0',1,1,16,0);" title="Skype actions" onmouseout="javascript:doSkypeFlag(this,'0',0,1,16,0);" onmousedown="javascript:doSkypeFlag(this,'0',2,1,16,0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" onclick="javascript:skype_tb_SwitchDrop(this,'0','sms=0');return skype_tb_stopEvents();" skypeaction="drop" skypeid="0" skypesms="0"><skype:span style="background-image: url("file://C:/Users/Kate/AppData/Local/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif");" id="skype_tb_img_f0" class="skype_tb_imgFlag"></skype:span></skype:span></skype:span>
Email: [email protected]





​


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## Keith Jenkins

http://www.akc.org/events/working_dog_sport/

Info above.


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## Bob Scott

Thanks Keith!


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## Thomas Barriano

Bob Scott said:


> I was sent this as an e-mail if anyone is interested.
> 
> I couldn't copy and paste the forms it mentions but they are probably on the AKC site or through the number at the bottom.
> 
> *
> Subject: **Fw: Working Dog Titles Earned in the Past*
> 
> 
> More good news on our partnership with WDA
> 
> This is to inform you that the AKC Board has approved a recommendation that AKC acknowledge Working Dog titles earned since 1991. These titles must have been earned in events held by the endorsed working dog organization. Only titles that have been approved by the AKC Board will be acknowledged. Titles must be applied for by the owner on the form provided by the AKC.
> 
> Attached are the Title Application form, an instruction sheet, and a list of the endorsed working dog organizations by breed and the titles recognized at this time. The mailing address for submitting Applications is shown on the form.
> 
> The Performance Events Department is very pleased with this decision and feels it is a positive step in recognizing the working skills of the breeds involved.
> 
> Doug Ljungren
> AVP of Performance Events
> Phone: <skype:span id="softomate_highlight_0" onmouseup="javascript:skype_tb_imgOnOff(this,1,'0',true,16,'',0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" class="skype_tb_injection" onmouseover="javascript:skype_tb_imgOnOff(this,1,'0',true,16,'',0);" title="Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +19198163903" onmouseout="javascript:skype_tb_imgOnOff(this,0,'0',true,16,'',0);" onmousedown="javascript:skype_tb_imgOnOff(this,2,'0',true,16,'',0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" onclick="javascript:skype_tb_doRunCMD('call','0',null,0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" iamrtl="1" context="919-816-3903" durex="0" skypeaction="call" skypeid="0"><skype:span id="skype_tb_img_r0" class="skype_tb_imgR"></skype:span><skype:span id="skype_tb_text0" class="skype_tb_injectionIn"><skype:span id="skype_tb_innerText0" class="skype_tb_innerText"> 919-816-3903 </skype:span></skype:span><skype:span id="skype_tb_img_s0" class="skype_tb_imgS"></skype:span><skype:span style="background-image: url("file://C:/Users/Kate/AppData/Local/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif");" id="skype_tb_droppart_0" onmouseup="javascript:doSkypeFlag(this,'0',1,1,16,0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" class="skype_tb_imgA" onmouseover="javascript:doSkypeFlag(this,'0',1,1,16,0);" title="Skype actions" onmouseout="javascript:doSkypeFlag(this,'0',0,1,16,0);" onmousedown="javascript:doSkypeFlag(this,'0',2,1,16,0);return skype_tb_stopEvents();" onclick="javascript:skype_tb_SwitchDrop(this,'0','sms=0');return skype_tb_stopEvents();" skypeaction="drop" skypeid="0" skypesms="0"><skype:span style="background-image: url("file://C:/Users/Kate/AppData/Local/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif");" id="skype_tb_img_f0" class="skype_tb_imgFlag"></skype:span></skype:span></skype:span>
> Email: [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Bob,

FYI The WDA only represents the GSDCA (German Shepherds)
The UDC (United Doberman Club) has been approved to run
the IPO program for the DPCA (Doberman Pinscher Club of America) I'm not sure what organizations the other working dog
parent clubs have selected.


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## Bob Scott

Thomas Barriano said:


> Bob,
> 
> FYI The WDA only represents the GSDCA (German Shepherds)
> The UDC (United Doberman Club) has been approved to run
> the IPO program for the DPCA (Doberman Pinscher Club of America) I'm not sure what organizations the other working dog
> parent clubs have selected.



Thomas,
In addition to the two you mentioned the (AMWA) American Working Malinois Association is also recognized.
Those are the only three to my understanding.


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## Thomas Barriano

Bob Scott said:


> Thomas,
> In addition to the two you mentioned the (AMWA) American Working Malinois Association is also recognized.
> Those are the only three to my understanding.


Bob,

The original WDS program included the Rottweiller, Bouvier and 
Giant Schnauzer (if I remember correctly) Last I heard the Rotty club was trying to going with DVG BUT DVG isn't participating at this time, so I'm not sure what their plans are now. The AWMA was not part of the original WDS program but I guess they did apply to have Schutzhund/IPO titles put on their pedigrees now.


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## Bob Scott

Thomas Barriano said:


> Bob,
> 
> The original WDS program included the Rottweiller, Bouvier and
> Giant Schnauzer (if I remember correctly) Last I heard the Rotty club was trying to going with DVG BUT DVG isn't participating at this time, so I'm not sure what their plans are now. The AWMA was not part of the original WDS program but I guess they did apply to have Schutzhund/IPO titles put on their pedigrees now.




As you say the Mals weren't involved in the original WDS which was a suprise. Now they show up. :-k
Numbers are large enough on the Rotty.....but then the show Rotty is to large  :-# to function so that doesn't suprise me. 
DVG has joined with the AWDA hasn't it?


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## Candy Eggert

Bob Scott said:


> As you say the Mals weren't involved in the original WDS which was a suprise. Now they show up. :-k
> Numbers are large enough on the Rotty.....but then the show Rotty is to large  :-# to function so that doesn't suprise me.
> DVG has joined with the AWDA hasn't it?


Since the AKC only recognizes one parent club for each breed, for the Malinois it happened to be the ABMA (koff koff). Not AWMA. You know the "working" organization ](*,) We were "there", willing and able. The show side didn't want "bite sports" attached to the breed 

From what little I know, there is/has been some collaberation between AMBA and AWMA. Maybe Chris Smith (VP AWMA) can shed some more light on this.


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## Bob Scott

As per the article.

AKC Parent club Event Giving Working Organization
ABMC AWMA

GSDCA WDA

DPCA UDC


Also

The AKC will record Working Dog titles* earned in events held by organizations** as requested
by Breed Parent Clubs and approved by the AKC. Recording of a title is done at the request of a
dog’s owner through the following process -
1. Upon earning a Working Dog title, complete the Application to Record a Working Dog Title.
2. Attach a check or money order for the appropriate amount or complete the credit card
information.
3. Mail the application and payment to the AKC.
4. AKC will verify and record the title.
5. AKC will issue and mail a title certificate to the recorded owner.
Only one title will be recorded per application and only the highest level achieved will appear on
the dog’s pedigree. An updated Registration Certificate and Pedigree may also be ordered via the
Title Application form.
Please see the AKC website at http://www.akc.org/events/working_dog_sport for the following
information:
* Working Dog titles that will be recorded for your breed.
** Event giving organizations whose Working Dog titles AKC will recognize.
Questions: Please contact AKC at [email protected] or (919) 816-3900, or contact
your AKC Parent Club or event giving organization.

This is all from the e-mail I was sent which was sent down from the AKC to individual WDA clubs


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## Christopher Smith

> The AWMA was not part of the original WDS program but I guess they did apply to have Schutzhund/<acronym>[FONT=&quot]IPO[/FONT]</acronym> titles put on their pedigrees now.


 <o></o>
You guess? Tomas you and I hashed this out on this forum months ago and I told you then what was going on. Just in case you forgot:
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f17/akc-working-dog-title-12833/
The AWMA is not an AKC club therefore was unable to participate in the WDS program.
The AWMA did not apply for anything. The AWMA was invited by the ABMC (American Belgian Malinois Club)to work with them on this project.


> Last I heard the Rotty club was trying to going with DVG BUT DVG isn't participating at this time, so I'm not sure what their plans are now.


 <o></o>
Yeah wouldn't that be great. A German club saying what titles go on American pedigrees? The DVG is not an American club so they can't participate. 


> As you say the Mals weren't involved in the original WDS which was a suprise. Now they show up. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_1" o:spid="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/images/smilies/eusa_think.gif" style='width:12.75pt;height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\CHRIST~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif" o:title="eusa_think"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->
> 
> 
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> <!--[endif]-->


 Maybe they saw that the WDS was ill-conceived, would not last and choose not to participate?
<o></o>


Candy Eggert said:


> From what little I know, there is/has been some collaberation between AMBA and AWMA. Maybe Chris Smith (VP AWMA) can shed some more light on this.


 The AWMA has been in touch with the ABMC (not ABMA) for a few years (This was before the WDS program). We saw what was going on with USCA and the WDA a decided that there had to be a better way. I feel that our relationship has been very good for both clubs and the breed. Hopefully we will be able to work on other things with them in the future.


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## kristin tresidder

*so here are my "AKC-titles-for-dummies" questions of the day**: if a *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*person*[/FONT]* earns a SCHHI with an AK C german shepherd dog through SCH-USA, can they get it's title listed on the dog's AKC pedigree, or does the SCHHI have to have been earned under WDA? if the AKC mini-schnauzer *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*parent club wanted to seek recognition for SCHH titles, would they have to go w/WDA because it's already a*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*p*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*proved*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*, or could they *[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*petition for a different club, i.e. SCHH-USA for their own titles. if they got a*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*p*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*proval, then could they also title through WDA, or would all mini-schnauzers have to be titled through SCHH-USA because that's what their s*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*pecific *[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*parent club requested? 
*[/FONT]


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## Thomas Barriano

kristin tresidder said:


> *so here are my "AKC-titles-for-dummies" questions of the day**: if a *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*person*[/FONT]* earns a SCHHI with an AK C german shepherd dog through SCH-USA, can they get it's title listed on the dog's AKC pedigree, or does the SCHHI have to have been earned under WDA? if the AKC mini-schnauzer *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*parent club wanted to seek recognition for SCHH titles, would they have to go w/WDA because it's already a*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*p*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*proved*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*, or could they *[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*petition for a different club, i.e. SCHH-USA for their own titles. if they got a*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*p*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*proval, then could they also title through WDA, or would all mini-schnauzers have to be titled through SCHH-USA because that's what their s*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*pecific *[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*parent club requested?
> *[/FONT]


Hi Kristin,

Schutzhund titles earned under UScA judges are NOT recognized. UScA has not recognized WDA titles for years, so a little quid pro quo isn't surprising. Each AKC parent club can apply to be part of the program (even mini schnauzers) individual parent club choose their own "certifying" organization.
The WDA is the group that the GSDCA picked. At this point, the
WDA is only for GSD's. Schutzhund/IPO titles earned by Dobermanns at UDC trials and Malinois at AWMA are also eligible to be put on AKC pedigrees.
There is also a provision for past titles to be put on pedigrees.
I"m not sure how this will work, since UScA titles aren't recognized. I would hope DVG titles would be recognized?


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## Christopher Smith

kristin tresidder said:


> *so here are my "AKC-titles-for-dummies" questions of the day**: if a *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*person*[/FONT]* earns a SCHHI with an AK C german shepherd dog through SCH-USA, can they get it's title listed on the dog's AKC pedigree, or does the SCHHI have to have been earned under WDA? if the AKC mini-schnauzer *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*parent club wanted to seek recognition for SCHH titles, would they have to go w/WDA because it's already a*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*p*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*proved*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*, or could they *[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*petition for a different club, i.e. SCHH-USA for their own titles. if they got a*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*p*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*proval, then could they also title through WDA, or would all mini-schnauzers have to be titled through SCHH-USA because that's what their s*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*pecific *[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]*parent club requested?
> *[/FONT]


Hi Kristin,

USCA will unfortunetly not be perticipating in this program. Per Doug Lungren, the AKC did not feel that it was appropriate for USCA to perticipate in the program due to membership rule changes that affected the GSDCA members. And to me this makes sense. Why should the AKC work with USCA when USCA is directly attacking an AKC breed club's membership? WDA has nothing to do with this decision in any way. 



> I"m not sure how this will work, since UScA titles aren't recognized. I would hope DVG titles would be recognized?


It will work because there are more schutzhund clubs than USCA (contrary to what USCA sometimes thinks):grin:, and those titles will be allowed on pedigrees.

And you can hope all you want but DVG titles will never be recognized as long as DVG is a German club.


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## Thomas Barriano

Christopher Smith said:


> It will work because there are more schutzhund clubs than USCA (contrary to what USCA sometimes thinks):grin:, and those titles will be allowed on pedigrees.
> 
> And you can hope all you want but DVG titles will never be recognized as long as DVG is a German club.



Christopher,

There are only two main type of Schutzhund judges in the US
UScA and DVG. Titles earned under UScA judges are specifically 
excluded, all that leaves are titles earned under DVG judges.
AKC/DPCA is going recognize titles earned at UDC events BUT
there are no UDC IPO judges, so that leaves DVG. UDC trials don't get enough entries to afford bringing in a foreign DV or FCI judge. Does the AWMA have any judges that aren't also
UScA licensed?


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## Christopher Smith

Thomas are you serious or are you just screwing with me? 
<o></o>
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JUDGES!!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!!! 

* N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!*​ <o></o>
The AKC is recognizing titles earned at *AWMA trials*. The judge doesn't matter. It's the organization that matters. If the AWMA wants' to send out a striped-ass ape with a top hat and a monocle (or a USCA judge), and make it their judge, those titles will be recognized by the AKC.


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## Thomas Barriano

Christopher Smith said:


> Thomas are you serious or are you just screwing with me?
> <o></o>
> THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JUDGES!!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!!!
> 
> * N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!*​ <o></o>
> The AKC is recognizing titles earned at *AWMA trials*. The judge doesn't matter. It's the organization that matters. If the AWMA wants' to send out a striped-ass ape with a top hat and a monocle (or a USCA judge), and make it their judge, those titles will be recognized by the AKC.


You wrote previously

"USCA will unfortunetly not be perticipating in this program. Per Doug Lungren, the AKC did not feel that it was appropriate for USCA to perticipate in the program due to membership rule changes that affected the GSDCA members. And to me this makes sense. Why should the AKC work with USCA when USCA is directly attacking an AKC breed club's membership? WDA has nothing to do with this decision in any way." 

So which is it? The AKC will recognize any title at a AWMA event
no matter who the judge is, even UScA or UScA isn't participating in the program? The AKC is NOT going to recognize anything but titles under VDH or FCI judges. It has everything to do with
judges. I don't care what organization is holding the trial (GSDCA, DPCA or ABMC) the judge is going to have to have a 
VDH or FCI recognized Schutzhund/IPO license


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## Christopher Smith

Thomas Barriano said:


> You wrote previously
> 
> The AKC is NOT going to recognize anything but titles under VDH or FCI judges.


All of the WDA judges save 2 are not VDH or FCI recognized so I guess WDA titles won't count either? 

Ok Thomas you win. =D Everyone else in dogsport is an idiot and you have all of the answers. So I'll call it quits with you now. If anyone else has any questions or need anything clarified just ask.


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## Keith Jenkins

As a member of the ARC Working Dog committee I can tell everyone that the ARC will not participate if the USRC must be used. It's just not going to happen. Just too much bad blood between the two organizations. 

We wanted to use DVG LV/America but their stance is basically unless we accept the USA also they won't allow us to use them as a go to organization. It has nothing to do with them being a German entity. 

I know the AWDF is having fits because the UDC and the AWMA went along with the AKC counterparts instead of presenting that united front they tried to push.


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## Christopher Smith

I don't want to hijack this thread but I think I need to point out something. Recently I have seen a few threads where people ask or state why knowledgeable people don't post on these boards and this thread is a classic example. I have been involved with this program from the beginning I have seen and or written all of the correspondence between the AWMA and all interested parties. I am one of my clubs AWDF delegates and have been in the meetings concerning this subject. And yet after dedicating many hours to this subject some proven know-nothing muddies the correct information with bullshit that he pulls out of the ether. More so than bad words or threads that go off topic, this is should be the number one concern for moderators, IMO. It's this type of stuff that really F's up the good that could come of the internet. It just not worth the bother. I have more interesting things to do like cleaning kennels or draining anal glands.


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## Christopher Smith

Keith Jenkins said:


> We wanted to use DVG LV/America but their stance is basically unless we accept the USA also they won't allow us to use them as a go to organization. It has nothing to do with them being a German entity.


Keith the president of DVG said in an AWDF meeting that Germany will not allow them to participate. I'm not doubting that she or the DVG may have told you something else, but the bottom line is that one FCI country can't do business on another FCI or affiliate country's turf.


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## Keith Jenkins

Well I just re-read the emails to double check and yes it is completely different than what you have been told, in fact not any mention at all was made of the FCI. Nada. 

By-the-way that is the catch-all phrase...the FCI doesn't allow it. Don't get me started on the whole AWDF thing. That's for another time and thread.


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## Thomas Barriano

Christopher Smith said:


> I don't want to hijack this thread but I think I need to point out something. Recently I have seen a few threads where people ask or state why knowledgeable people don't post on these boards and this thread is a classic example. I have been involved with this program from the beginning I have seen and or written all of the correspondence between the AWMA and all interested parties. I am one of my clubs AWDF delegates and have been in the meetings concerning this subject. And yet after dedicating many hours to this subject some proven know-nothing muddies the correct information with bullshit that he pulls out of the ether. More so than bad words or threads that go off topic, this is should be the number one concern for moderators, IMO. It's this type of stuff that really F's up the good that could come of the internet. It just not worth the bother. I have more interesting things to do like cleaning kennels or draining anal glands.


Christopher,

Simple question. The AWMA website lists two judges, Glenn Stephenson and Nathaniel Roque both have UScA licenses.
Do you think that UScA will allow either to judge a ABMC event
that can be listed on an AKC pedigree? When Bill Knox agreed to
judge the DPCA/WDS pilot trial, they pulled his UScA license.
Save the know it all attitude and the shouting and the insults.
Simple question


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## Thomas Barriano

Keith Jenkins said:


> Well I just re-read the emails to double check and yes it is completely different than what you have been told, in fact not any mention at all was made of the FCI. Nada.
> 
> By-the-way that is the catch-all phrase...the FCI doesn't allow it. Don't get me started on the whole AWDF thing. That's for another time and thread.


Hey Keith,

The last DPCA National had Vic Wilms scheduled to judge.
Apparently he had too many foreign assignments using
his SV license and attempted to judge under his FCI license.
Something happened with that plan and he had to cancel at the
last minute and the trial got canceled.


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## Thomas Barriano

Christopher Smith said:


> I have been involved with this program from the beginning I have seen and or written all of the correspondence between the AWMA and all interested parties. I am one of my clubs AWDF delegates and have been in the meetings concerning this subject. And yet after dedicating many hours to this subject some proven know-nothing muddies the correct information with bullshit that he pulls out of the ether.


Involved in what program? The WDS program did NOT include any Malinois clubs. Are you talking about the program to allow
Schutzhund titles to be placed on AKC pedigrees that replaced the WDS program? The program that started what, 6 months ago? So you're a six month expert? Wow you must know everything LMAO
The AWMA has ZERO to do with the GSDCA or the DPCA programs. I doubt if you were privy to all (any?) of the correspondence between the ABMC and the AKC. 
You being the AWMA rep to the AWDF means squat, since you stated yourself that they have nothing to do with any AKC program and are upset that the AWMA and UDC (AWDF member clubs) went with their AKC counterparts.

FYI I've been involved with AKC and Schutzhund since the 03 
WDS pilot trial. I put WDM III titles on two of my dogs.
So who is the know nothing, someone involved for seven months or seven years? Oh yeah, I know the WDS program isn't around anymore, but it was the basis for the current program.
There wouldn't be any way for Schutzhund titles to be placed on
AKC pedigrees if it weren't for the WDS program


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## Christopher Smith

http://www.akc.org/events/working_dog_sport/


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## Kadi Thingvall

Candy Eggert said:


> Since the AKC only recognizes one parent club for each breed, for the Malinois it happened to be the ABMA (koff koff). Not AWMA. You know the "working" organization ](*,) We were "there", willing and able. The show side didn't want "bite sports" attached to the breed


First, it's the ABMC (American Belgian Malinois Club) not ABMA. And they have been the AKC Malinois breed club for MANY years, much longer then AWMA has even been in existance. So it makes sense AKC is going to work with them and nobody else. And second, the ABMC DID send coorespondence to AKC asking to be part of the WDS. For whatever reason, AKC didn't include the ABMC in the list of initial breeds/clubs.



Bob Scott said:


> As you say the Mals weren't involved in the original WDS which was a suprise. Now they show up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


As stated above, we weren't involved because AKC didn't add us to the list, NOT because we didn't request it.

As Christopher said, the AWMA and ABMC are working together, and have been for quite awhile. There were multiple people on ABMC's WDS committee who were/are also AWMA members. Myself and Glenn S. being two of them, I'd have to go back through the email list to see who else, it's been awhile.


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## Thomas Barriano

Kadi Thingvall said:


> As Christopher said, the AWMA and ABMC are working together, and have been for quite awhile. There were multiple people on ABMC's WDS committee who were/are also AWMA members. Myself and Glenn S. being two of them, I'd have to go back through the email list to see who else, it's been awhile.


Kadi,

It's nice to see AWMA and ABMC working together. The DPCA and UDC have a similar good relationship. The major problem I see is lack of judges. GSDCA/ WDA is in good shape with their own judges. The rest of us are left with UScA and DVG neither of which is a viable choice. I suspect that UScA would threat the
UScA licenses of both your AWMA judges if they attempt to 
judge a AKC/ABMC trial. Do you know something that I don't
about who you're going to get to judge your trials?
How was there a Malinios involvement in the WDS program and you were never added to the list of approved clubs? I mean after 6-7 years even the AKC could have fixed the "problem"


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## Kadi Thingvall

Thomas Barriano said:


> Do you know something that I don't about who you're going to get to judge your trials?


Beats me. And honestly, not high on my list of concerns since I'm mainly a French Ring person 



Thomas Barriano said:


> How was there a Malinios involvement in the WDS program and you were never added to the list of approved clubs?


I'm not sure what you mean? I didn't say there was a Malinois involvement. I said the ABMC sent letters to the AKC requesting to be involved, but the Malinois was never added to the list of approved breeds. I would have to go back through my emails but I believe later it was a case of "the door is now closed", and AKC wasn't going to add anyone else to the list that wasn't already there.


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## Thomas Barriano

Kadi Thingvall;19178
I'm not sure what you mean? I didn't say there was a Malinois involvement. I said the ABMC sent letters to the AKC requesting to be involved said:


> HI Kadi,
> 
> I thought since there was a ABMC WDS committee that there was a long term involvement in the program?
> Anyway, I think AKC has mucked up the process from the beginning. First off they should have just recognized Schutzhund/IPO and not tried to reinvent the wheel.
> After the WDS program trial period, if they had just made it permanent, there was a good chance that the FCI working dog committee would have recognized it and then DVG would have allowed their judges to do the trials and UScA would be out in the cold and forced to change their policy. Even if they weren't going to continue the WDS program, they still could have just
> recognized any VDH or FCI Schutzhund title, instead of this nonsense they're doing now. Oh well, at least there's a way to get Schutzhund/IPO titles on pedigrees.


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