# Innova Evo



## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Does anyone know where to purchase Innova Evo in the Raleigh, NC area? Or is it only available online? Seems a little crazy to pay shipping on dog food...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> Does anyone know where to purchase Innova Evo in the Raleigh, NC area? ...


Animal Rehabilitation & Wellness Institute (919) 861-5868 700 Blue Ridge Road 
Raleigh, NC 27606 
Bowman Animal Hospital (919) 847-6216 8308 Creedmoor Road 
Raleigh, NC 27616 
Canine Country Club (919) 876-9538 1654 N. Market Drive 
Raleigh, NC 27609 
Dogs Gourmet (919) 821-5301 1805 Glenwood Avenue 
Raleigh, NC 27608 
Earth Fare (919) 433-1390 10341 Moncreiffe Rd. 
Raleigh, NC 27617 
La Di Dogs (919) 832-9877 419 B Daniels Street 
Raleigh, NC 27605 
Pawz Pet Supply (919) 845-9332 7317 Six Forks Rd 
Raleigh, NC 27615 
Pet Mania (919) 676-3225 7901 Falls of Neuse Rd. 
Raleigh, NC 27615 
Pet Supplies Plus 2 (919) 878-0080 4025 Wake Forest Rd 
Raleigh, NC 27609 
Triangle Nutrition (919) 847-8498 8801 Lead Mine Rd. Ste. 1... 
Raleigh, NC 27615 
VIPet Resort (919) 875-9899 5014 Lacy Avenue 
Raleigh, NC 27609 
Wag (919) 836-8865 603 Glenwood Avenue 
Raleigh, NC 27603 
Wag 2 (919) 841-5093 7414 Creedmoor Rd 
Raleigh, NC 27614


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

WHOA! Connie, I love you! Where did you get that? I Googled "Innova Evo in Raleigh, NC" last night and couldn't find squat!


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

They have a red meat variety out now as well. I've not tried Annie on it yet. But we love Innova Evo. Got the fat cat (23.8 pounds this weekend at the vet's office...her belly rolls spilled over the scale...I am way guilty) on the cat version, too.


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

I've never tried it, but I know a lot of people advocate it as the best alternative to raw, and since my vet seems to think that Dom's "problems" are a result of the raw diet...well, I'll feed him a kibble that might as well be raw. :lol: Not cheap, though. 

Let me know if you try the red meat variety. I saw that last night and thought it looked interesting.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> I've never tried it, but I know a lot of people advocate it as the best alternative to raw, and since my vet seems to think that Dom's "problems" are a result of the raw diet...well, I'll feed him a kibble that might as well be raw. :lol: Not cheap, though.
> 
> Let me know if you try the red meat variety. I saw that last night and thought it looked interesting.


Heh, I can tell you want to get Mother Hen worked up this morning. :wink: A sidenote about a vet pointing to raw is a good way to do it. :lol:

I'm keepin that red meat one in my back pocket for now. Haven't tried it yet. I tend to fold in a few treats here and there for Annie's dish to keep it interesting. A few pieces of dehydrated lamb lung, some sliced banana, ice, lsome nice salmon treats I have...all little stuff. And I always put in 3/4 tsp of Solid Gold Seameal. She has a beautiful coat and (relative to what I understand from other people's experiences) minimal shedding.

Connie, one of the store managers at the pet food place I go to...Chuck and Don's...was saying that additional fish oil might be overkill with all of the fat in Innova Evo already. What's your perspective? Here is the nutritional info.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> WHOA! Connie, I love you! Where did you get that? I Googled "Innova Evo in Raleigh, NC" last night and couldn't find squat!


Went to their site and clicked on "stores." 8) Damn. Now I have given away a big secret! :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> .....Heh, I can tell you want to get Mother Hen worked up this morning. :wink: A sidenote about a vet pointing to raw is a good way to do it. :lol:
> 
> I'm keepin that red meat one in my back pocket for now. Haven't tried it yet. I tend to fold in a few treats here and there for Annie's dish to keep it interesting. A few pieces of dehydrated lamb lung, some sliced banana, ice, lsome nice salmon treats I have...all little stuff. And I always put in 3/4 tsp of Solid Gold Seameal. She has a beautiful coat and (relative to what I understand from other people's experiences) minimal shedding.
> 
> Connie, one of the store managers at the pet food place I go to...Chuck and Don's...was saying that additional fish oil might be overkill with all of the fat in Innova Evo already. What's your perspective? Here is the nutritional info.


Well, that said how much fat (which could easily be upped to 30%, IMO, unless there's a weight problem), but not what sources.

Omega 3s from plant sources are not sufficient for dogs. This is the hottest newest Tufts (and other) research (along with the advantage of certain RX antihistamines over Benadryl): That dogs do not change plant-source Omega 3s into the beneficial long-chain EFAs they need. Our rate is about 10% and theirs is about 0%. This means to me that if we rely only on flax and other plant sources of Omega 3 EFAs, we're shortchanging both ourselves and, even more, our dogs. We need marine sources.

Once again: Fish oil! Fish oil and Vitamin E! We need a little smiley that has a trumpet blaring or something. :lol:


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Alicia Mertz said:
> 
> 
> > WHOA! Connie, I love you! Where did you get that? I Googled "Innova Evo in Raleigh, NC" last night and couldn't find squat!
> ...


Uh...right. Of course you did. Why didn't I think of that?          Didn't even cross my mind. #-o :lol:


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

This seems to list the ingredients of Innova Evo a bit more specifically, Connie. 

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=product-detail&pxsl=//product[@id='1246']


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

P.S. The reason I call it "the hottest" new research is this: It confims all the less-authoritative and smaller studies that have indicated very strongly the benefits of marine sources of Omega 3s, and have also addressed the reasons for the steadily-increasing levels of inflammation we experience (modern diets, pollution, chemical use in big ag) ----- why we need the most efficient sources of Omega 3s, which are a major anti-inflammation agent.

Inflammation is a (in many cases, THE) huge factor in systemic disease, from coronary heart disease to arthritis to allergies.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Acording to their site, Inova Evo is the same thing as their dry food. 
wouldn't the dry food need some sort of presevatives that wouldn't be necessary in a canned product?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> This seems to list the ingredients of Innova Evo a bit more specifically, Connie.
> 
> http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=product-detail&pxsl=//product[@id='1246']


Herring meal..... good.

Extremely heated and cooked herring meal ........ not so good for the Omega 3s in the fish fat.

MHO only: I would add fresh, unheated, refrigerated, distilled (no heavy metals), no-liver fish oil* and vitamin E, slowly and gradually. Since there is 22% fat and dogs need 30% or more, I personally would not worry about adding this extra fat unless there was a weight problem. This is JMO. Sorry you asked? :lol: 

* http://www.crnusa.org/o3group.html


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Acording to their site, Inova Evo is the same thing as their dry food.
> wouldn't the dry food need some sort of presevatives that wouldn't be necessary in a canned product?


I think--based on the people at my store's opinion, based on what makes sense to me :lol:--is that Innova Evo is not something you buy five bags of and throw out in the garage to pull from during winter. I think it's got a much higher chance to go rancid/break down. I buy the biggest bag they sell (~30 pounds) one at a time, store it in an airtight container, and go through that pretty quickly. I would definitely not buy older Evo product.

All speculation on this newb's part...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Acording to their site, Inova Evo is the same thing as their dry food.
> wouldn't the dry food need some sort of presevatives that wouldn't be necessary in a canned product?


I thought so. But I don't know. 

Hmmmmm........ :?:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Bob Scott said:
> 
> 
> > Acording to their site, Inova Evo is the same thing as their dry food.
> ...


The food is cooked, the macrobiotic stuff that gets destroyed in heating is sprayed on afterwards.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Connie Sutherland said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Scott said:
> ...


Then I would expect the shelf life would be shorter then "regular" dry foods. Course a 33lb bag of food doesn't last long here.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Right, but how long does it sit on the shelf in the store?

Maybe the bags are dated..........?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

You guys reminded me I gotta go pick some up! :lol: Answers shortly! Be back after lunch.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Right, but how long does it sit on the shelf in the store?
> 
> Maybe the bags are dated..........?


Wait...... 33-pound bags?!  

How do you get them into the shopping cart?? :lol: 

Don't worry about dates on products -- do what I do everywhere in the store (OCD behavior alert): Reach for the very back item on every shelf and haul it out, and then spend a lot of time putting back all the "bad" front ones you knocked off.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Connie Sutherland said:
> 
> 
> > Right, but how long does it sit on the shelf in the store?
> ...


  I thought I was the only one who did that. 
It only takes one bottle of sour milk to become a shelf digger for evething. :lol: :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Heck yeah!!

I'm getting the newest of EVERYTHING! :lol:


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> This is JMO. Sorry you asked? :lol:


Not in the least.  Very informative. I'll look into how much it would cost to feed my mongrels lol Innova Evo and then do as you've suggested.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I do think we can give good food these days even if we can't feed fresh raw food.

I am lucky that I can feed raw with THK as backup, but that doesn't mean there is only one way to feed.

I do believe strongly that no kibble (or can) can possibly provide everything. I think that variety is required for that. 

So everyone who adds fresh meat and produce and feeds good unheated fish oil, etc. -- well, that can make all the difference, IMHO. 

I applaud people who do this kind of search to find the best food, and also add fresh ingredients even if they can't feed a basically fresh diet.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I do think we can give good food these days even if we can't feed fresh raw food.


Alicia, this is total BS from Connie...she is a militant...all this hand-holding is really part of a long-term plan to convert people over to *Cleaned Rhino Nuts*. :lol: She'll be the first to deny it though. :wink:

So Connie, you did get in my head, I asked them a lot about stock rotation. They're a small group of stores with knowlegeable people (best place to buy food, IMO...lower inventory variability and lots more awareness about spoilage). Anyway, she walked me through the expiration dates that are on all Evo bags. 

Alicia, just as an FYI, expirations for Evo seem to run at least one year (the bag I bought today had an expiration of July 14, 07...not that I'd ever store it that long!). So if you buy Evo you may want to be wary of stuff that's close or near to the expriry date.

Not sure how they get away with that long of a shelf time, by the way...it's an airtight seal (no "ripcord") but that still strikes me as a fair chunk of time for kibble.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Around here, EVO is outrageously expensive. Sorry, but I just can't afford to spend $43 on a 28.6 pound bag (which is the largest EVO comes in - Regular Innova comes in the 33 pound bag). A 28.6 pound bag would only last about 2 - 2.5 weeks at my house I think. $86 a month on dog food? No way!

I'm more than happy (I typed yappy first, and had to change it :lol: ) with Canidae, and it is more affordable at $35 (incl. tax) for a 40 pound bag, which lasts me a full 4 weeks. Even Jak's trainer comments on how good Jak looks, and I've almost convinced him to try it, too! I'm not holding my breath on that one, though, because Purina has given him a LOT of money over the years. At least he feeds Pro Plan and not any of the worse stuff that Purina makes. :?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> .......Alicia, this is total BS from Connie...she is a militant...all this hand-holding is really part of a long-term plan to convert people over to *Cleaned Rhino Nuts*. :lol: She'll be the first to deny it though. :wink:.......


Woody, isn't someone calling you??


P.S. to the sane readers (if we have some) :lol: ........ Cleaned Rhino Nuts is a not-very-inside reference to a rearranging of the letters in my name. :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Cleaned Rhino Nuts is a not-very-inside reference to a rearranging of the letters in my name. :lol:


Funny coincidence, NOT. Militant. :lol:

I pay $48 a bag for my stuff.  This store does have a quarterly rebate program, which is nice, but obviously still expensive.

Oh, how I wish this was my one dog-related indulgence....yeesh...good thing my wife doesn't know about the off-shore bank accounts and the number-running/cocaine smuggling I do to feed my dog habit.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> ...... I asked them a lot about stock rotation. They're a small group of stores with knowlegeable people (best place to buy food, IMO...lower inventory variability and lots more awareness about spoilage). Anyway, she walked me through the expiration dates that are on all Evo bags. ......



Woody, is this an actual date on the bag of Innova, or a secret date code?


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm sorry, but I cannot just quote one post.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

We need one of the emoticons where the little guy is rolling around on the ground laughing! :lol: 

I had no idea that asking where to get Innova Evo would provide this much entertainment!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> .....I had no idea that asking where to get Innova Evo would provide this much entertainment!


On this board??!!

Heck, these people have done more with a lot less.........


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> I'm sorry, but I cannot just quote one post.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> We need one of the emoticons where the little guy is rolling around on the ground laughing! :lol:
> 
> I had no idea that asking where to get Innova Evo would provide this much entertainment!


We are full-service Mods, Alicia. Our business is helping yours. Show me one other forum where a mod will run to the store to check labels on a %@#! bag of food that he wouldn't even eat. And then tell me so we can get him help because that is one pathetic dude. 

The comedy we throw in for FREE. (Alicia Mertz can be re-arranged to "A Miracle Zit," by the way).

No secret codes Connie, I only worry about anagrams and numerology when I get around BARF militants. It's stamped in clear indentation on the bottom quarter of the front of the bag.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> ...........I only worry about anagrams and numerology when I get around BARF militants........


Man. And I never post about your secret pen-spinning habit.........


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Okay, so here's a new question...

When comparing Innova Evo with Nutro Natural Choice (what I'm currently feeding) and Canidae (which I know is also quite popular), I notice very quickly the difference in the Protein and Fat found in Evo. Evo lists Protein at 42% vs. Nutro/Canidae at an average of 25%, and Evo has 22% fat vs. Nutro/Canidae's 13.25% average.

How much does a dog really need? I saw earlier that Connie said a dog needs 30% fat, but what benefits are seen with almost twice the fat found in Nutro and Canidae? And is 42% Protein really necessary, or at some point is it wasted?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Kristen Cabe =
1. Entices Bark (cool!) and
2. "Eek! Crab nits!" (ugh!)


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Man. And I never post about your secret pen-spinning habit.........


Heh, by far the deepest and most troubling thing on that page. :wink: I had never put together a "current state" biography before, I figured what the heck.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> ..........When comparing Innova Evo with Nutro Natural Choice (what I'm currently feeding) and Canidae (which I know is also quite popular), I notice very quickly the difference in the Protein and Fat found in Evo. Evo lists Protein at 42% vs. Nutro/Canidae at an average of 25%, and Evo has 22% fat vs. Nutro/Canidae's 13.25% average.
> 
> How much does a dog really need? I saw earlier that Connie said a dog needs 30% fat, but what benefits are seen with almost twice the fat found in Nutro and Canidae? And is 42% Protein really necessary, or at some point is it wasted?


You have entered forbidden territory. Sorry.

Do you have your password?

Instant recap: Do you think that dogs need and do best on what they'd eat in a perfect world of plentiful prey and ripe, fallen produce?

If so, then you probably want to feed about 40% protein, 30+ % fat (raw fat), and the rest "other", including bones and produce.

There would be a little partly-digested grain in there (I believe, but that's not universal -- still, it's not very material), along with seeds and wild greens, from the prey's stomach. There would be eyeballs and brains abd other stuff that we have good reason not to feed, but that provided Vitamin E, Omega 3s, and other micronutrients.

There is no good, clear translation from fresh to kibble, IMHO. And this time I mean the "humble" part (I usually don't :lol: ).

We all have to feel our own way here, relying on the vet med research we trust and trying to sort out the stuff from the companies with big vested interest in promoting grain-heavy foods, leftover rancid restaurant fats sprayed on the food, and other extremely questionable ideas (again, IMO).

I believe that Hills and SD and some others are guilty of very poor research, or worse.

I also believe that there are other companies trying and succeeding to make kibble and canned foods that are feasible to produce and store but are still close to what dogs would do best on in a perfect world.

Cooked fat is a whole 'nother thing from raw fats and oils for a dog. I'd be happy about the lower protein and fat than optimal, and I'd supplement with fresh unheated oils and some RMBs or meat.

You asked! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You dragged the soapbox over and beckoned me onto it!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

P.S. Protein from meat is a way different thing from grain protein, btw. And many commercial foods are grain-heavy, meaning that even the % they list is not primarily meat protein. Dogs need meat. Dogs' systems are streesed by producing enough amylase and other grain-processing enzymes to digest grain-heavy foods. This is JMO, but there's a ton of reading behind it.

The %s on the package are less important (to me) than what the food is made of and where those %s come from.

OK, stepping off the soapbox.

For now.......... :twisted:


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Kristen Cabe =
> 1. Entices Bark (cool!) and
> 2. "Eek! Crab nits!" (ugh!)


What the hell is a crab nit? :lol: :lol: 

You have way too much time on your hands, Woody. You could be doing a lot of things right now, like picking your nose or mowing the lawn, or both! :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> ........You have way too much time on your hands, Woody. You could be doing a lot of things right now, like picking your nose or mowing the lawn, or both! :lol:


..... not to mention spinning your PEN!


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Kristen Cabe said:
> 
> 
> > ........You have way too much time on your hands, Woody. You could be doing a lot of things right now, like picking your nose or mowing the lawn, or both! :lol:
> ...


Or WORKING. For--literally--dog food.


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## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> WHOA! Connie, I love you! Where did you get that? I Googled "Innova Evo in Raleigh, NC" last night and couldn't find squat!


She is one of a kind :!:   

Rob


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Robert Blok said:


> .....She is one of a kind :!:


And we won't discuss WHAT kind! :lol:


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## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I do think we can give good food these days even if we can't feed fresh raw food.
> 
> I am lucky that I can feed raw with THK as backup, but that doesn't mean there is only one way to feed.
> 
> ...


Connie,
I feed my shepherds Royal Canin (switched from Innova) which is working very well for them, but I add salmon oil and sometimes add raw meat. I have gotten rid of hotspots and other irritating skin issues.
Rob


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

QUOTE I have gotten rid of hotspots and other irritating skin issues END

Good work! Hot spots can be full-time misery for the dog.


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## Mike Armstrong (Mar 29, 2006)

Got this from the Innova people in response to a question about date codes and preservatives:

_Thank you for contacting us about our product. The expiration date for the 13.2 lb or smaller bags is on the back center, or the top front part of the bag. 

Naturas foods are preserved with vitamin E (mixed tocopherols - alpha, beta, gamma and delta isomers) and vitamin C. 

Just like the food you buy for yourself, our pet foods are affected by natural environmental elements over time. That is why we recommend to provide appropriate storage conditions. The natural enemy of food is air, light and heat. The more you can do to minimize exposure to these elements, the longer the pet food will stay fresh and nutritious.

After opening a bag, we recommend using it within 3 months.

Please feel free to contact me if you need any additional information or if you have any questions. 

Veronica Moreno 
Natura Pet Products 
800-532-7261_


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