# carry the sleeve or not?



## Angelique Cadogan (Jan 3, 2008)

I wanted to know if at training your dog needs to carry the sleeve all the way to the car or ok to drop at the curb? Does it matter if the dog carries it to the car ? And why or why not?

We have a dog that bites the sack very good holds it very nicely, no problem there but has soon has it gets near the car it drops it.To me I would take that and move on but to others they want to see the dog carry it ALL the way to the back of the car. (it's not me or my dog) I want to hear from you guys what you think on the importance of that exercise, or should we take what we get and move on?:-k


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

If I were the decoy and I saw the dog drop it, I'd run over (in a non threatening sneaky way), "steal" it, agitate the dog all the way to the car, then run away and let the dog go to the car wanting more.

I see no importance in carrying it to the car. If he does then he does if he doesnt then it doesnt matter. The car has no significance to the dog.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Oh, there you are, Angelique! I was just asking someone where the heck you were!

And back to:


Mike Schoonbrood said:


> If I were the decoy and I saw the dog drop it, I'd run over (in a non threatening sneaky way), "steal" it, agitate the dog all the way to the car, then run away and let the dog go to the car wanting more.
> 
> I see no importance in carrying it to the car. If he does then he does if he doesnt then it doesnt matter. The car has no significance to the dog.


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## Angelique Cadogan (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree, the helper did agitate all the way to the car ,they even sacked her behind the car..I just saw no point of continuing an exercise that really at the end does not matter, but one person thinks it's so important and I had disagreed and want us to move on. So I want it to hear form others and see if I was wrong. Thanks Mike.

Hi Connie!! I have been busy....4 kids, 2 dogs , a litter and a very busy Club....never ends..


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

I thought carrying it to the car was about confidence building...to car and beyond! However, once the dog is showing full calm grips, calm carry, does it really matter where they are outed? If not trained on the out, let them carry it until they out on their own?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Michele, I believe the point was that the dog WAS spitting it out on his own before reaching the car.

If the dog spits it then let him spit it. If he spits it before leaving the field then fine I'll stick it back in his mouth, but if he's carried it he's carried it. If he spat it out thats his own choice.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I personally don't hold as much importance to it as some do I think its a dog by dog basis thing. My dog will carry to the car but doesn't carry if the helper slips and I run circles to close to the helper he will spit it and want to reengage the helper. It has been this way since he was about 8 months I made a effort to try to make carry and hold but he just wanted to get back to work so be it. When the session is over I take him to the car he may hold it 5 minutes. Also on several occasions he has outed at the car and started to hump it:mrgreen:
I let him do as he wishes when the session is done he works very hard.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

My dog wins when he gets to carry the sleeve to the car, but he is pretty good about spitting it out once we get there. I had a real problem getting it away from my previous dog, he got nasty mean possesive with the sleeve once at the car, so we outed on the field or just off the field always.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My dogs learn to spit it out when they get to the car. It didn't take them long since I leave my car and crate door open for the dog to jump right into and get a short drink of water when they come off the field. 
Jumping into a crate with a sleeve in the mouth doesn't work well.


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## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

Mine tried to get in the crate with the sleeve once...he learned that it was a bit awkward, and now he drops it at the car. I don't worry about it...by the time he gets to the car, the value of the sleeve has depreciated considerably, and I like that he's willing to give it to me.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Carrying the sleeve is a prey mode. It is done to help bring balance to defensive dogs. The carry aspect brings down the defense and pushes up the prey.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> My dogs learn to spit it out when they get to the car. It didn't take them long since I leave my car and crate door open for the dog to jump right into and get a short drink of water when they come off the field.
> Jumping into a crate with a sleeve in the mouth doesn't work well.


Dogs seem to learn pretty quick from those self-administered 'corrections'!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Personally I don't care. I'm more concerned with what they do while they are biting then after it's slipped to them  I've seen dogs with great bites on the decoy, who had little to no desire to carry the equipment after it was slipped. And dogs that would carry all day long, whose bites on the decoy were hectic, growly, etc. 

If you want the dog to carry all the way to the vehicle have a long line on the object, so you or the decoy can keep it "active" in the dogs mouth. If the dog does drop it, have the decoy steal it, tease them, and you drag the dog all the way to the vehicle while it's being teased/frustrated. Next time out it should carry further.


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## Angelique Cadogan (Jan 3, 2008)

Well that's the thing , this young 1 year old female will bite hard ,hold , pull etc.. , we have had the helper keep it "alive" and follow her to the car , and that works but you take that out and she'll spit it out. She will hold on the field very nicely. I think I like all of you guys advise and thoughts, and I will voice that tonight at training that we need to move on from over working her at the car in order for her to hold it there, I really thought it was not necessary and reading all of your thoughts I think it's the best thing to do and that is, to move on and take what we have.Maybe as time goes on and when she is on a decoy carrying the sleeve will matter more, right now it's a sack only..
I thank you guys for your time, and happy training!

By the way ,sorry I said sleeve it really is a sack, my dogs have been on a sleeve for so long that I wrote sleeve but really this young dog is being sacked only at this point..no sleeve yet.


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## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

When I put the dog back in the car, that's his down time. I don't want him continuing to worry about the sleeve and to still be in drive while he's going into a crate ~ unless we're having a problem with his drive on the field.


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