# Mals vs Dutchies



## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

I have been told that neither can be good family dogs unless the Dutchie was a wash out. What are the opinions of the Forum.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Nope...both my Mals are house dogs and they both *gasp* do have an off switch in the house, especially if properly (read: extensively and almost exhaustively) mentally and physically exercised. Me and my husband don't have kids, but one small reservation is that I would somewhat worry if there were other kids over and boys in particular were rough housing, what they'd do. My male, even as young as like 8 months or so, was at a dog show and saw two kids who were brother and sister (boy was about 10, girl was about 8) horsing around and the boy grabbed the girl from behind in a bear hug and Fawkes did NOT like that one bit. So you may have the "fun police" to deal with.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f50/malinois-dutch-shepherds-15518/


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## Richard Russell (May 10, 2010)

I have been guilty of telling people they are not good housedogs. I told this to people that were not planning to work the dog. I told them if Dutchies are bored and don’t get enough exorcise they will take it out on your property like a couple of teenage boys on a sugar rush. Then this year I had to eat my words. My 1 ¼ year old Dutch has done well with me being sick and being trapped in the house most of the time so, I’m being forced to rethink my response. I have to ask, am I being a dog snob? After reflecting on my old response I think I was trying to protect my favorite breed from over breeding by scaring away potential owners. 

MY NEW RESPONSE ! I think ultimately it has more to do with the individual dog and how it is raised and trained. No dog regardless of breed is maintenance free or problem free.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

I also have a dutchie that is far from a wash and a great house pet. He's great with kids and adults and dogs as well. His father and brother are the exact same way and they are all titled FR3 and are out of their mind while working. They have a great turn off switch.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

I don't beleive their is any difference from a Malinois and Dutchie other than looks!

But, certain bloodlines and how the dog was raised/trained will be the determining factor if he can or cannot survive inthe house, or rather you! LOL

I have a one inside the house and she acts calm and like a house pet, however is a super worker. 

Raising/Training and what you want to do with the dog, I do not recommend it for a first time dog owner though, try a lab first!


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## AJ Johnson (May 1, 2010)

Im sorry to sound harsh but really this is a silly question that is just as ignorant as Breed Restriction laws stating all Pitbulls are killers. Seriously Every DOG BREED no matter what it is can produce a family dog and a Killer all from the same litter. ITs like the breeder that says all my pups work great. Seriously c'mon every thing training shuld teach you is that every dog is different and you need to try the spirit by the spirit (judge the dog by the dog) not the breed. NOt trying to bash but we as dog enthusiasts especially need to be careful the questions we ask and the way we view dogs. If we dont get it right who will


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

I wrote on another thread about Mals being good childrens' dogs. My dog takes roughhousing from my kids everyday. My kids are small so sometimes they get rough with the dog. My daughter bite my dog's ear, poked eyes, pulled his tongue, etc... She was small but it still happened. My dog did not do anything. My Mal has a high pain tolerance and any dog that is going to be around small kids should have a high pain tolerance. I will not pick a pup who is sensitive to squeezing his paw. The dog is going to get stepped on and other things with kids.

My dog is no wash out and comes from strong working lines. He will work himself to heat exhaustion and will bite anything, so he is far from a watered down dog. The dog knows that the house is for him to cap his drive. I do not train the dog in the house. The only training that dogs receive in the house is in household manners. 

Every dog has an off switch. It is called training. All my dogs have been in the house and do not destroy property, pace or run in my house. It is never allowed from the time they are brought in my house. They learn to respect my boundaries and are happy well adjusted dogs because of basic house training that anyone can learn if they put the time into it. I do not use Ian Dunbar's book but do suggest it for new owners. If you follow Dunbar's training methods, you will have a Mal or another working line dog with an off switch. You just do not want to inhibit the dog's bite, if you are going to bite train the dog. I inhibit my dogs' bites with the kids and rough behavior with my kids is not tolerated. 

A lot of people are dog snobs and like to think they are the only one that can handle or work a Mal or Dutchie. Sometimes my dog does not get worked for a week and he is fine, especially in the winter. Personally, I get tired hearing people call the Malinois coyote on crack. It sounds like they are just repeating what they have heard or been around dogs that do not know how to behave due to not being trained. My guess is that they have never been around a Mal. If they had, they would know the Mal is a big mush of a dog with the family. My dog is always in the same room with me laying down. The worse part about the Mal is that they want to be with you constantly and you have to be firm with them or they can get pushy for attention. I give attention on my time, not when they want it.

*If I had a Mal to sell, I would prefer the dog go to a family who was willing to learn how to train the dog than a trainer who was going to crate the dog or kennel it. I have taught people who were new to dogs how to train a dog. The important part is if they are willing to learn and be consistent. A lot of people are lazy and expect the dog to be perfect with no training or consistency. 

It seems like there are a lot of myths surrounding working dogs. People treat them special instead of a like a dog and then you end up with a spoiled dog with no house manners. Then people come on here or other forums telling people that these dogs are not family dogs, when the problem is that they never trained the dog how to behave in the house. You are not going to ruin your working dog by giving him/her boundaries and requiring that the dog behave with your kids and not destroy your property. It is interesting in other countries that the Mals and Dutchies live with families.

**If you have a dog that is fearful or aggressive towards kids, then put the dog down. I have no patience for child aggression and it is a serious fault in dogs. It seems like people are breeding some child aggressive bull breeds. I will not try to rehabilitate a child aggressive dog or even nervy dog. The dogs are better put down, since there are many other good dogs needing homes that are not child aggressive.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

hello Jody,

No i am far from a first time dog owner. I had Rotts when Rotts were a no no because of the breed. I wanted to get into obedience and agility and wanted a smart dog. Maybe even into sport. My step-brother and his partner has a Dutchie and she is wonderful, but is just her. They bought her from a guy up North about 5 years ago. I was just wanting to know if anyone here had them as pets and it is surprising how many of you do.




Jody Butler said:


> I don't beleive their is any difference from a Malinois and Dutchie other than looks!
> 
> But, certain bloodlines and how the dog was raised/trained will be the determining factor if he can or cannot survive inthe house, or rather you! LOL
> 
> ...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jack Roberts said:


> My guess is that they have never been around a Mal. If they had, they would know the Mal is a big mush of a dog with the family. My dog is always in the same room with me laying down. The worse part about the Mal is that they want to be with you constantly


Not ALL mals are big family mushes and not all want to be with you constantly.

remember what you just said. judge the individual dog not the breed.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

AJ Johnson said:


> Im sorry to sound harsh but really this is a silly question that is just as ignorant as Breed Restriction laws stating all Pitbulls are killers. Seriously Every DOG BREED no matter what it is can produce a family dog and a Killer all from the same litter. ITs like the breeder that says all my pups work great. Seriously c'mon every thing training shuld teach you is that every dog is different and you need to try the spirit by the spirit (judge the dog by the dog) not the breed. NOt trying to bash but we as dog enthusiasts especially need to be careful the questions we ask and the way we view dogs. If we dont get it right who will


Well Mr Johnson,


I was always told that the only stupid or ignorant question is the ones that are not asked. I am NOT new to working dogs, just new to this breed. When I tell you I have spoken to numerous so called breed enthusiast and when I tell you how many negative comments I have received about these dogs, it is crazy. I happened across this board and saw some things that peaked my interest. I am not ignorant nor am I silly. I just asked a question. If you have dealt with ignorant and silly people in the past, I feel for both of you. Them not knowing all that they needed to know before posting and you for knowing it all.

The BSL is a stupid law and it will be around as long as we have people out there just doing breedings and creating problems. The problem will exist as long as dogs are being bred that are not tested. Sorry that you are turned off to new people wanting to get into this breed. Have a blessed day.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Eryka Batiste said:


> I was always told that the only stupid or ignorant question is the ones that are not asked. I am NOT new to working dogs, just new to this breed.


Just for clarification, I think when we mean working dogs on this forum, we usually mean dogs that are actual working dogs (police K9, SAR, ranch herding, detection, etc) or working sport dogs (Schutzhund, Ring, sport herding, etc). Do you mean you're familar with working dogs or breeds in the working dog group?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jody Butler said:


> I don't beleive their is any difference from a Malinois and Dutchie other than looks!


If you are talking about the Dutch dogs, then I'd agree. But if you are talking about the dogs outside of Holland, I have to disagree. I think there is a big difference between an FCI Malinois and an FCI DS. I also think there is, in general, a difference between a Malinois from France or Belgium and a Dutch DS or Malinois.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Just for clarification, I think when we mean working dogs on this forum, we usually mean dogs that are actual working dogs (police K9, SAR, ranch herding, detection, etc) or working sport dogs (Schutzhund, Ring, sport herding, etc). Do you mean you're familar with working dogs or breeds in the working dog group?


Sorry Ms Jones,

I meant dogs in the working group.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Eryka Batiste said:


> hello Jody,
> 
> No i am far from a first time dog owner. I had Rotts when Rotts were a no no because of the breed. I wanted to get into obedience and agility and wanted a smart dog. Maybe even into sport. My step-brother and his partner has a Dutchie and she is wonderful, but is just her. They bought her from a guy up North about 5 years ago. I was just wanting to know if anyone here had them as pets and it is surprising how many of you do.


You cant compare a Rotti to a mal or DS. I have live with both for many of years now. My Rott that is now a old timer was drivey and was very aggresive, BUT compared to our mals or DS in the past or in the present is two totally different animals. Mals and Dutchies are great depending on a individual basis more so then the Rotti. My Rotti's were always able to be left out once they grab the whole house concept. My mals and DS I will never leave out alone when not home. I have one particular female that now is loose in the house for durations of us being home but as a pup we never left her in the house because we did not want to put restrictions on her drives. Once we got her to where we wanted her she then started coming in the home more frequesntly. Just because you have had a Rotti or even a GSD for that matter doesn't declare the same as a Mali or DS, JMO.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Hi Joby,

The dogs may not all be big mushes but the Mal as a breed is highly biddable. There is a reason that they are highly biddable. You take the Mals high biddableness and drive his behavior towards a family dog and home protector. The Mal loves to please his master and that is why they make good working dogs. If you have a Mal that is not a good family dog or social enough to take anywhere than you have a poorly bred Malinois. You should be able to take a good dog anywhere. A good Mal should have the confidence and nerves to go anywhere and be touched by other people. I think that I disagree with you on how we would define a good dog and it is after all just opinions. Everyone likes different kinds of dogs. 

Most of the Mals I have been around are good with their families. I have been around a lot of kenneled Mals who were the same way. Mals are not fire breathers and just regular dogs with a higher prey drive and willingness to bite with their drive. 

I should define a mush. The Mal may not be always want to be right next to you but usually they will lay in the same room with you. My dog is impervious to pain and high corrections but I banish him from the family or remove him from the environment, he is deeply effected. He would rather take hits than have to be away from his family. It is pretty simple, I use the power of the pack to make him behave.

**I still say that a Mal puppy raised with a family makes a great family dog as long as the dog is raised with consistent boundaries and taught manners. The same drive that makes them good working dogs can be used to make them good family dogs. It is in the training that makes the difference. I still insist that on/off switches in dogs is a training problem and not a dog problem.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

I would like to hear Kadi's thoughts on Mals as family dogs, especially ones trained from puppies to be with their families. If you have someone willing to learn and train the puppy to behave, you can have a great dog. 

It is my understanding that a lot of green dogs from France are brought up in family situations and raised by families.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Jack Roberts said:


> Hi Joby,
> 
> The dogs may not all be big mushes but the Mal as a breed is highly biddable. There is a reason that they are highly biddable. You take the Mals high biddableness and drive his behavior towards a family dog and home protector. The Mal loves to please his master and that is why they make good working dogs. If you have a Mal that is not a good family dog or social enough to take anywhere than you have a poorly bred Malinois. You should be able to take a good dog anywhere. A good Mal should have the confidence and nerves to go anywhere and be touched by other people. I think that I disagree with you on how we would define a good dog and it is after all just opinions. Everyone likes different kinds of dogs.
> 
> ...


As far as your last qoute, I have to agree and disagree fella. Just because the pup is removed from the house doesn't mean the dog cannot make a good house dog later on. I have living proof of that shes a hell of worker but can come in the house and in time settle down and relax. We meaning my house have found out that even no the pup is removed from the house as long as the pup is interacted with us we can still make the dog a house dog / outside dog once training is complete. On your behalf we have had a few that were not able to figure that out LOL, which is fine for us to.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

Harry Keely said:


> You cant compare a Rotti to a mal or DS. I have live with both for many of years now. My Rott that is now a old timer was drivey and was very aggresive, BUT compared to our mals or DS in the past or in the present is two totally different animals. Mals and Dutchies are great depending on a individual basis more so then the Rotti. My Rotti's were always able to be left out once they grab the whole house concept. My mals and DS I will never leave out alone when not home. I have one particular female that now is loose in the house for durations of us being home but as a pup we never left her in the house because we did not want to put restrictions on her drives. Once we got her to where we wanted her she then started coming in the home more frequesntly. Just because you have had a Rotti or even a GSD for that matter doesn't declare the same as a Mali or DS, JMO.


Harry I was not comparing the 2. All I was saying is that I am not a first time dog owner and have had a dog in the working group. Never was I comparing the 2. Although me and my boy did obedience and some search and rescue to give him an outlet and he was a great dog as a protector, he was no Mal.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

Well off to work. I will get with you guys/gals when I return. Everyone play nice now lol.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Eryka Batiste said:


> Harry I was not comparing the 2. All I was saying is that I am not a first time dog owner and have had a dog in the working group. Never was I comparing the 2. Although me and my boy did obedience and some search and rescue to give him an outlet and he was a great dog as a protector, he was no Mal.


 
Let me ask you a question, not looking to turn into a argument are you looking for a working dog from a working breed or are you looking for a house pet from a working breed, because there is a huge difference still if it comes from the same working breed, Like I said just a question I'm not making a assumption? Just trying to figure out what your exactly saying.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> Let me ask you a question, not looking to turn into a argument are you looking for a working dog from a working breed or are you looking for a house pet from a working breed, because there is a huge difference still if it comes from the same working breed, Like I said just a question I'm not making a assumption? Just trying to figure out what your exactly saying.


Huge difference indeed. the term working "group" when referring to dogs always peaks my interest.

Eryka...you said your dog was a great protector, what type of training did you do with him, and what was the testing that was done that gave you the opinion that he was a "great protector"? just curious, not trying to sound hostile in any way.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

Harry Keely said:


> Let me ask you a question, not looking to turn into a argument are you looking for a working dog from a working breed or are you looking for a house pet from a working breed, because there is a huge difference still if it comes from the same working breed, Like I said just a question I'm not making a assumption? Just trying to figure out what your exactly saying.


Hello Harry,

No worries. I am wanting a family pet that I can do obedience, agility and maybe sport work with. Definitely the first 2. I am sorry if i cam across like a "B". It has been hard getting info and learning about these dogs, because what I have experienced from others is nothing but negativity. Not on this board, but on a couple of other boards.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> Huge difference indeed. the term working "group" when referring to dogs always peaks my interest.
> 
> Eryka...you said your dog was a great protector, what type of training did you do with him, and what was the testing that was done that gave you the opinion that he was a "great protector"? just curious, not trying to sound hostile in any way.


Well Jody,

He was tested in the worst way I think. He was about 11 months old at the time of the incident. I would take him walking in the morning before I went to work. He and I did obedience at that time. Well, he learned really well and we were doing some off leash work. He never chased a person, a kid or another dog being off lead with me. Well this particular morning, we were about 5 blocks from home and near an apartment community. He was taking care of his morning business lol under a low lying tree. I had my back to the main road. The apartments had a chain link fence and large sun flowers grew along it. Well this guy grabbed me from behind and snatched me around the fence. My dog didnt even see it happen. He was trying to choke me with the leash. When my boy was done, he went to the end of the street and looked toward the school where we were going. He didnt see me and just sat looking in that direction. All this took about 30 to 45 seconds. Well he must have heard something and looked our way and that is when I saw the devil in his eyes. He jumped on me and we both hit the ground. When I regained myself, he was tearing this man apart. I never wanted him to have to protect me in that manner but i am glad that he did. After that ordeal with the cops and animal control, I never had to worry if he would protect me or not. Sad to say the police never found the guy, just his van with a shovel, rope, tape, trashbags and a knife. Sounds like a story, but i wore a 1 inch acrylic burn around my neck for about 6 weeks. Thanks to a great bond between me and my $250 byb pup lol I am here to talk to you guys.


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## Charles Guyer (Nov 6, 2009)

I would check with Christie Meyers. She runs the DS rescue. Many of the PSD, sport home washouts are more than capable of excelling in other arenas and making great family pets (and being good entry level protection sport dogs). Some of the breeders have them advertised from time to time as well. This way you introduce yourself to the breeds and the sport while giving a good, active home to a dog in need, without making a huge initial investment. There are two rescue mals in my group and both are super pets and good workers. The rescue folks can match you to the right dog as well, which is more than you'll get with an 8 wk old without out being really familiar with the breed.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Eryka Batiste said:


> Hello Harry,
> 
> No worries. I am wanting a family pet that I can do obedience, agility and maybe sport work with. Definitely the first 2. I am sorry if i cam across like a "B". It has been hard getting info and learning about these dogs, because what I have experienced from others is nothing but negativity. Not on this board, but on a couple of other boards.


get a border collie


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Eryka, do you alreay have a puppy picked out. It sounds like your possibly interested in a DS? I have two litters coming at the end of this month. One from Titan (Last years NARA FR3 champion) and one from my dog Sniper (last years NARA FR2 champion). They are incredible working dogs and also amazing house pets. Very relaxed in the house and non working enviornments. If that is something that interests you, let me know because I would love to help you out.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Eryka Batiste said:


> Well Jody,
> 
> He was tested in the worst way I think. He was about 11 months old at the time of the incident. I would take him walking in the morning before I went to work. He and I did obedience at that time. Well, he learned really well and we were doing some off leash work. He never chased a person, a kid or another dog being off lead with me. Well this particular morning, we were about 5 blocks from home and near an apartment community. He was taking care of his morning business lol under a low lying tree. I had my back to the main road. The apartments had a chain link fence and large sun flowers grew along it. Well this guy grabbed me from behind and snatched me around the fence. My dog didnt even see it happen. He was trying to choke me with the leash. When my boy was done, he went to the end of the street and looked toward the school where we were going. He didnt see me and just sat looking in that direction. All this took about 30 to 45 seconds. Well he must have heard something and looked our way and that is when I saw the devil in his eyes. He jumped on me and we both hit the ground. When I regained myself, he was tearing this man apart. I never wanted him to have to protect me in that manner but i am glad that he did. After that ordeal with the cops and animal control, I never had to worry if he would protect me or not. Sad to say the police never found the guy, just his van with a shovel, rope, tape, trashbags and a knife. Sounds like a story, but i wore a 1 inch acrylic burn around my neck for about 6 weeks. Thanks to a great bond between me and my $250 byb pup lol I am here to talk to you guys.


wow. ok  good enough for me...LOL..


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## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

yep I would say thats sounds like he passed. sounds like a rare find. where is this dog now? breed?


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Eryka Batiste said:


> Hello Harry,
> 
> No worries. I am wanting a family pet that I can do obedience, agility and maybe sport work with. Definitely the first 2. I am sorry if i cam across like a "B". It has been hard getting info and learning about these dogs, because what I have experienced from others is nothing but negativity. Not on this board, but on a couple of other boards.


I don't think you should have that problem on this board for the simple fact that there are many professionals on here with alot, alot of knowledge. Also many of us on here have at least one or the other breeds that this topic is subject for in many differing venues. Sorry to hear about your run in to. You were lucky to have a dog that reacted thank god and not tuck tail and split on you. Both breeds are used for the two venues you mentioned but are very non popular in those venues but do excel in them from only what I have heard in talking to people over the years. As far as sport dog they are defently the breeds to most not all for choice of workability. With proper up bringing and training also make a great protector, but if done wrong can either turn out crappy or worst dangerous. Overall I love them and think they are some of the finest breeds this earth has to offer for being able to accomplish what ever training you give them. Good Luck in search hopely we can give you the advice your looking for.=D>


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

You will have one before you know it!


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> You will have one before you know it!


You talking about problems or a dog LOL


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> You talking about problems or a dog LOL


 
dog, no problems!


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## Austin Matthews (Apr 19, 2010)

Eryka,

I just got my first Dutchie. I totally understand what you mean; there is only so much information out there on them. I think internet forums account for about 60% of that knowledge/information on them.

Some people are dog snobs, yes. Even fans of the Doberman, GSD, or Rottie will sometimes tell people not to get them. I did 5 months of reading up on the Dutch Shepherd before getting one, and I found that most owners were VERY helpful and encouraging. They like to share their knowledge of the breed because they are very proud of the breed. I think only two people were condescending about my decision to get one.

I think if you want to read more about them just read about the Malinois. There are a couple books about them out there I think. It's a very similar breed (as people have already pointed out).


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Hey Austin, where did you get your dutchie and what are your intensions with him/her?


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## Austin Matthews (Apr 19, 2010)

Land of Oz. I want to get him titled in Schutzhund and for him to be a running partner for me, and a hiking companion for my family and I.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

Oh ok. Very cool


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

I have a mal x dutch cross....so I guess you could say he's the best of both worlds...he's evil, he bites me,he bites everything moving or not, he has no off switch... but he's only 8 weeks old lol


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## Austin Matthews (Apr 19, 2010)

georgia estes said:


> he bites me,he bites everything moving or not


Pretty much hit the nail on the head :lol: The first thing I noticed about him was how much he bites/how much prey drive he has. He eats everything too, so I have to be careful when taking him out because he loves eating sticks.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

Jason Hammel said:


> yep I would say thats sounds like he passed. sounds like a rare find. where is this dog now? breed?


Hello Jason,

he was a Rott and that was about 20 years ago. i miss him still.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

Austin Matthews said:


> Land of Oz. I want to get him titled in Schutzhund and for him to be a running partner for me, and a hiking companion for my family and I.


Land of Oz has good dogs.


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## Jason Davis (Oct 12, 2009)

I've never personally worked any, seeing that I mainly work french ring dogs, but I've heard good things about their breedings.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I've heard of a streak of dog aggressiveness in their lines. Not my favorite problem to deal with...


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I've heard of a streak of dog aggressiveness in their lines. Not my favorite problem to deal with...


 
If what you "heard" was correct.....I don't beleive that is true at all and I have owned a few in the last few years.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

*shrug* Just going by what I heard. Glad your dogs have worked out for you. :wink:


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

i think in 10 years from now the malis will still be good have good have overall good health 
there gene pool is big enough 
the dutchies if breeders dont look further than they do now and only make use from a few popular 
lines used in the us and also in holland 
when it really comes down to lines there are 3 lines used in holland and bred back and back 
i dont think that many people have heard of inbreeding depression 
i see more than enough signs already 
i really think that the dutchie need the malilines to stay by work and health at least on the same level as today iam pretty sure the malis dont need the dutchies to ad something exstra there you have choises enough 
hopefully in 10 years from now well still have good dutchies i hope so


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

kamphuis gerben said:


> i think in 10 years from now the malis will still be good have good have overall good health
> there gene pool is big enough
> the dutchies if breeders dont look further than they do now and only make use from a few popular
> lines used in the us and also in holland
> ...


Very good observation Gerben. Very good point you raise. 

What features of "inbreeding depression" are you starting to notice? 

With very close line breeding in GSDs sometimes I've seen pancreas disorders, cataracts. Temperament wise some dogs were a bit "dull", hard to explain but the dogs seem to be "half tank". I'm sure this could happen with any breeding and it is hard to tell if it was due to the close genetics.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jack Roberts said:


> I would like to hear Kadi's thoughts on Mals as family dogs, especially ones trained from puppies to be with their families. If you have someone willing to learn and train the puppy to behave, you can have a great dog.


I think it depends on the family and the dog. I've had Malinois since right about the same time my son was born, and my dogs are house dogs, so I'd say I've always had them as family dogs. That said, there were always rules. I've never allowed him to do things like pull their tails, hit them with toys, or do any of the other things that kids will do. On the flip side, if he did do something like that, and the dog reacted negatively, they were both corrected. Him for being unfair to the dog, and the dog for reacting, because in my house I'll deal with it. And I think that's an important thing, a working dog in a household with a weak owner can be a problem, in a household with an owner who will take the leadership role I think can work quite well. 

You also have to pick the right dogs. I think Kelson (my son) has lived with at least one FRIII in the house for most of his life. Some dogs I got as adults, others were dogs that grew up in our household. But the dogs I keep are not excessively sharp/reactive or handler aggressive, a trait I personally don't like. Some of them are dominant, but you can have dominance without handler aggression. And dominance doesn't mean "I'll kill the kid because he tripped and fell on me" They have also been stable dogs who know the difference between a toddler who does something because they don't know any better, and a pre-teen who does the same thing because he's being an ass. Similar to how they interact with puppies vs "teens" vs other adult dogs. That doesn't mean they are push overs either, if Kelson does something to the dogs that they don't like, they will tell him. But he's also got great dog sense, and knows how to handle the dogs.

I also think an "off switch" is important. Some people consider this a trained/learned thing, some consider it a trait a dog just comes with, either way I think it's important to have. I just don't see any reason to have a dog who has to be nuts 24/7, if we are in the house, traveling, or even just waiting our turn at training a dog who can just relax is important. Especially if you are going to have that dog as a housedog.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I have a Mal and a Dutchie. Both are house dogs, both are training in schutzhund, so kinda working pets. 

I got the mal as an active pet, and then realized I needed to do more with him, so started in schutzund. He was a much higher maintenance dog than I expected. More exercise, more training, more management, just more than I was used to from other dogs I had owned. But he is quiet and easy going in the house.

The DS is similar, but she's still only a year old, so has her moments. With her, I told her breeder, (Mike from Logan Haus) what I wanted - house dog, social and confident, suitable for schutzhund, and asked if that was possible with his dogs. So far, she's what I asked for. 

For me, the issues, especially with the mal, are not with him at home. Just hanging out chilling, he's fine, it's taking him somewhere that can be a problem. At the club he spins up and come outs out of the crate ready for action, which is great, but spun up is not so great if I just want to wander around the mega pet store or visit a friend with dogs in tow. He's a great dog, but not an easy one.

If he was strictly a working dog, this wouldn't matter, but because my dogs are also my pets and I think that's what the OP is looking for, it may be something to consider. Then again, I've only ever owned one Mal and one Dutchie, so pretty limited experience. YMMV.


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## Eryka Batiste (May 18, 2010)

Thanks Kadi and ALL of you who has given me positive advise. Man I do appreciate it. You guys have opened my eyes to the wonders of Mals and Dutchies. I do appreciate the load of information you guys/gals have provided. Thanks again.




Kadi Thingvall said:


> I think it depends on the family and the dog. I've had Malinois since right about the same time my son was born, and my dogs are house dogs, so I'd say I've always had them as family dogs. That said, there were always rules. I've never allowed him to do things like pull their tails, hit them with toys, or do any of the other things that kids will do. On the flip side, if he did do something like that, and the dog reacted negatively, they were both corrected. Him for being unfair to the dog, and the dog for reacting, because in my house I'll deal with it. And I think that's an important thing, a working dog in a household with a weak owner can be a problem, in a household with an owner who will take the leadership role I think can work quite well.
> 
> You also have to pick the right dogs. I think Kelson (my son) has lived with at least one FRIII in the house for most of his life. Some dogs I got as adults, others were dogs that grew up in our household. But the dogs I keep are not excessively sharp/reactive or handler aggressive, a trait I personally don't like. Some of them are dominant, but you can have dominance without handler aggression. And dominance doesn't mean "I'll kill the kid because he tripped and fell on me" They have also been stable dogs who know the difference between a toddler who does something because they don't know any better, and a pre-teen who does the same thing because he's being an ass. Similar to how they interact with puppies vs "teens" vs other adult dogs. That doesn't mean they are push overs either, if Kelson does something to the dogs that they don't like, they will tell him. But he's also got great dog sense, and knows how to handle the dogs.
> 
> I also think an "off switch" is important. Some people consider this a trained/learned thing, some consider it a trait a dog just comes with, either way I think it's important to have. I just don't see any reason to have a dog who has to be nuts 24/7, if we are in the house, traveling, or even just waiting our turn at training a dog who can just relax is important. Especially if you are going to have that dog as a housedog.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I've heard of a streak of dog aggressiveness in their lines. Not my favorite problem to deal with...


:-oYour kidding me right, I have to agree with Jody I have had 4 of them and they have all been not what I like at all. I see absolute no natural aggression in them or for that matter over the top drive. I had one that was a young pup and required so much extra work to even compare to other D.S. pups it was ridiculous. As well as three older ones that were some what good and might of been good as club level sport dogs but defently no further than that I would say.JMO of my experience with them.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> *shrug* Just going by what I heard.


That seems to be your forte


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Kadi,

Thanks for posting your experiences with your dogs and son.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Harry Keely said:


> :-oYour kidding me right, I have to agree with Jody I have had 4 of them and they have all been not what I like at all. I see absolute no natural aggression in them or for that matter over the top drive. I had one that was a young pup and required so much extra work to even compare to other D.S. pups it was ridiculous. As well as three older ones that were some what good and might of been good as club level sport dogs but defently no further than that I would say.JMO of my experience with them.


All I have heard was just hearsay that they have a tendency towards dog aggression. I'm kind of curious though...why'd you get 4 of them if you didn't like their drives?



> That seems to be your forte


Yeah, Gerry, cause no one on here EVER goes on anything based purely what they've heard from other dog people. :-\":-\":-\"


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> All I have heard was just hearsay that they have a tendency towards dog aggression. I'm kind of curious though...why'd you get 4 of them if you didn't like their drives?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Gerry, cause no one on here EVER goes on anything based purely what they've heard from other dog people. :-\":-\":-\"


I won't lie two were out of my own theory of maybe different moms would chnage shit, which is a true statement in its own and the other was differing children of those lines and parents were okay so I figured I give it a whirl because the price was good and the dog had decent ball drive so I figured I would try to develope the bite if for nothing else shit and giggles / project dog. the last one I didn;t know of the lines until some phone calls and research that it went back on those lines. That sums it up for you I hope Maren.](*,)


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Per Maren:Yeah, Gerry, cause no one on here EVER goes on anything based purely what they've heard from other dog people. :-\":-\":-\"

I know that some do but not all of this and yes we are all guilty of it.:grin:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Harry Keely said:


> I won't lie two were out of my own theory of maybe different moms would chnage shit, which is a true statement in its own and the other was differing children of those lines and parents were okay so I figured I give it a whirl because the price was good and the dog had decent ball drive so I figured I would try to develope the bite if for nothing else shit and giggles / project dog. the last one I didn;t know of the lines until some phone calls and research that it went back on those lines. That sums it up for you I hope Maren.](*,)


Thanks for the clarification. I won't be in the market for another dog for another couple of years at least, but I'll probably want a stripey, so I'm glad to hear some impressions of the lines.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I won't be in the market for another dog for another couple of years at least, but I'll probably want a stripey, so I'm glad to hear some impressions of the lines.


No problem, this is JMO. There might be others that have had luck with them. I would research though and get a consensus or start a ballad of where to purchase your D.S. and let the people speak of there pros and cons and then make your decision unless you already have your heart set on a specific one.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I've got a couple in mind from back when I was looking for one in 2007. I really liked one breeder in particular, but the breeding didn't take when I needed a pup, so I had to settle for a non-stripey. Oh well, Mals are okay too, I guess.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

I love my Land of Oz pup!

I recently purchased a male pup from Land of Oz. Jett is the sire. My guy is about 11 weeks now and his drives are insane! The bravest puppy I have ever owned/raised. He actually scares me sometimes lol. He is toy aggressive, and bites everything. He has started to bark at the door. Very mature for his age.

I had and opportunity to catch a 11 month old female out of Jett my friend had purchased. This female laid into me like a train. I was like damn. I said to myself I will have one, oh yes, I will. lol.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

hey Jeff, your puppy sounds very nice. Do you have any videos of him or the 11 month old female you are taling about?


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Not at the moment, but will soon. My hard drive crapped out on my pc. As for the 11 month old, I will check with her owner to see if she has anything.

Yeah, he is a devil pup lol. I need to wear leg sleeves around him. Lmao


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## Rachel Kilburn (May 12, 2010)

Don't know where you got that information from... but I have a 4 year old Mal who is my house dog and I also have a 4 year old Dutchie as well who are fine in the house they know that playing around is for outside and that when they are in the house they know they are supposed to chill and find a dog bed to lay down on


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2010)

I have a young Mali bitch (1 yr) who is good in the house and I currently have 2 Pits that are great in the house. The Mali is calm in the house and is nothing like the horror stories you hear. She doesn't pace or destroy stuff and only barks if there is something to actually bark at and stops on command. She is usually relaxed and sleeping on her bed when she's inside. She's ready to go when I am but is truly relaxed otherwise. I don't really get where those stories even come from. She's nothing like a laid back Pittie but she's a good solid house dog, no complaints whatsoever.

To be honest the horror stories are the one thing that made me balk at getting a Mali, I'm glad I ignored them. And no she's not stupid. Fast yes, stupid no.


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## Austin Matthews (Apr 19, 2010)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> I love my Land of Oz pup!
> 
> I recently purchased a male pup from Land of Oz. Jett is the sire. My guy is about 11 weeks now and his drives are insane! The bravest puppy I have ever owned/raised. He actually scares me sometimes lol. He is toy aggressive, and bites everything. He has started to bark at the door. Very mature for his age.
> 
> I had and opportunity to catch a 11 month old female out of Jett my friend had purchased. This female laid into me like a train. I was like damn. I said to myself I will have one, oh yes, I will. lol.


Hey Jeff, sounds like you got your pup from the same litter as I did. :razz:

My guy scares me too sometimes! I love him to death, but he is smart and he knows when he is being picked up to be put in his crate, he starts fighting. And he bites each clip on the gate of his ex-pen as we clip them on; And bites them to try to get them off. He also has a habit of headbutting the door of his crate when he wants out. 

I picked him up the other day and he bit my ear open. There was blood dripping on the floor. Now I have an inch gash on my ear. It's funny, he comes up and licks my face in the morning but then he gets into drive and wants to thrash everything.

I will post pics soon.


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## cody dumont (May 31, 2010)

I have a "Land of Oz" Jett X Maddie Pup from the same litter as well.......Small world! :-D

Here is a picture of my puppy Scout.

*- 10 weeks old*


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## cody dumont (May 31, 2010)

Here is a pic from today.

*-11 weeks old*


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