# Czech GSD Lineage



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

What do you know about Czech GSd Lineage?


----------



## Tamara Villagomez (Nov 28, 2009)

What were you looking to find out about them ?


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Thats the line I'm looking into myself. I've heard good things about it, just like anything though, you gotta do your homework and seperate the good kennels from the bullshitters/trash breeders.


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

I want to know if people prefer them over the other GSD lines, like West German, DDR (East German), Belgian, Slovak, etc...


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Everyone's preferences are different, Patrick. Some people like them, some people don't. Some people like W. German lines, others don't.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

The first question is do you like them FOR WHAT?

There are some nuances between different lines but then also some of the West German working folks are working Eastern Bloc dogs into their own breedings.

I have a Czech dog - but I got him as a young adult and it was less about lines and more about he was the dog I wanted and still really like but that does not mean I would not consider one from other lines. The question is too vague and it will still come down to the individual dog.


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Me personally would not touch anything other than a Czech line dog. There more hyper / energetic and seem to mature faster than other lines. Few that I have had were alot more real and civil as well.


----------



## Dennis Jones (Oct 21, 2009)

I like my "Bad" Czech. But I have to qualify that by saying she is a pet.....a really intense pet


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Thank you for your responses. I would like to know more about Czech line lineage. Can someone tell me about the history of the Czech line GSD and who some of the original stud dogs were and some of their individual characteristics?


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Assuming you mean german shepherds, and assuming you're referring to border patrol dogs, and assuming again, those which were influenced by east German working times of the Cold War era (IOW, "DDR"), here are some of the their earlier imports.

Mek v. Weida Grund
Bojar v. Shotterhoff
Viktor von der Edelquelle
Treu v. Schafferstolz

The Czech dogs I have most personal experience from are through *Held vom Ritterberg*. Held's sire, Ingo von Rudingen was linebred 3-2 on Ex vom Riedstern, who was a significant ancestor in the pedigrees of every Czech or DDR dog I've owned. Held's mother, Burga vom Haus Himpel was linebred 2-2 on another very significant ancestor in workinglines, Bernd vom Lierberg. One of my current stud dogs, Faro Policia is linebred 3-2 on a best son of Held, named Bero vom Friedersdorfer Flur. I will probably do a close linebreeding on Faro myself, someday.

Held vom Ritterberg lines are often very strong and much healthier, but sometimes need more prey drive to pull off all that well in sporting venues. They can be used to achieve a good balance of drives for sport when crossed with faster and more agile, higher drive breedmates.

This picture is of Bero as a pup, around 1984.


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Awesome. Thank you. Can everyone please post more info like this. I have seen quite a bit of Faro Policia offspring and they are all quite nice. Can you tell me about Faro Policia. I also would like to know about other Czech line GSD's as mentioned on the website www.ddrlegends.com . I would like to know more about Pohranicni Straze lines and others as well. I am working with a dog out of van den heuval kennel which is a Cak Boure son who is amazing and a prey monster. I would like to know everything about the Czech line GSD's.


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Please let me know when you plan on breeding Faro Policia.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Look under "Planned Breedings" of Faro to a Reno Jipo Me daughter. Once pregnancy is confirmed, there will be further information. There are plans for Faro to breed a Norbo Ben Ju daughter as well, probably before the year is out.

I owned a Cak son, and witnessed the development of two other Cak sons at my former club, and another visiting son of Cak that I was able to see as well. One had incredibly intense civil drive, another mostly prey with easier social behavior. The one I owned was a good balance of both drives, and strong in each of them. He could be stubborn, or less biddable at times. Health matters washed out most of these dogs from having any great reproducing potential. I don't recall seeing him employed for breeding in the last few years.


----------



## Sarah Atlas (Dec 15, 2008)

if you go to the Eurosport web site (www.eurosportk9.com) you can read their link about the czech dogs and the happening to them during WW2
owner of a czech female
Katrina z. eurosportu By Galant P.S.


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

We imported a number of Czech dogs and also sourced a number for another kennel here. 
We imported a Chuligan PS daughter called Fella PS, a Tom z PS daughter called Kottorps Fanta, a Gero z BZ daughter, a Bonny z KZ daughter and a Olymp Policia son. We also sourced Warkos Anrebri, Marko z BZ and Dark Gaja Nova for a friend of ours. This guy also imported two Faro z Policia daughters as well as Xero PS daughters. A freind of mine also imported a female called Saprina Policia in whelp to Blek Egiduis, which we had some puppies here from. Another friend of mine on this forum imported a great Czech male called Dares z Geradonu. 
As far as GSD's go the Czech lines are valuable. On the average they give a more civil dog, with higher levels of suspision than the West lines do. They all had as high prey as any west GSD's did. 
When you get a bad Czech dog, you normally have thinner nerves and fear aggression. 
Health wise hips are on par with West GSD's, but you do have to watch the elbows. This is not only displacia related but also a bit of pano from Tom PS's lines. 
However it is pretty hard to find 100% Czech working lines as most Czech/Slovak breeders went out to the German and Belgium dogs. They thought the grass was greener.


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

http://www.jinopo.cz/ Patrick here you can find out alot of what your looking for. This man knows all there is to need to be known about the border patrols. Most of these dogs were founded by him that are being mentioned in this thread including Eurosports bloodlines.


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Thank you all very much for all of the helpful info.


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

I would like to know which kennel everyone thinks has the best breeding program for Czech GSD's and why?
If a almost perfect breeding were to take place, which dogs in your opinion would be in the breeding?


----------



## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

The Czech line has a wide variety of dog types just like German and other lines have. You can find a dog for every job in every of those lines, you just have to look at the individual dog.


----------



## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Hi Patrick. I stumbled upon a PS/BZ dog and have never looked back. Now I have chosen a pup based on much discussion here and oodles of research, one line led me to another and another....as I am sure you are finding out. My male PS is built somewhat like a Mal and will top out about 75lbs. From what I have learned they can have stong scenting abilities, mine in particular loves it, lacks all civil drive and will not bite, could care less about most people and loves other dogs, would eat a cat if given the chance and loves catching phesants and rabbits, but I am certian with some work he would be an asset as SAR.

The PS, BZ, Policie dogs are my personal preference. The breeder I chose was due to 2 dogs he has in his breeding stock, and his long standing reputation for being good to deal with. www.gillsgermanshepherds.com

Have fun and good luck! The people here are very helpful.


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Patrick Salerno said:


> I would like to know which kennel everyone thinks has the best breeding program for Czech GSD's and why?
> If a almost perfect breeding were to take place, which dogs in your opinion would be in the breeding?


Patrick if you want to know the best and get the best go to them man who is responsible for this.

www.jinopo.cz , good luck.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Kat LaPlante said:


> Hi Patrick. I stumbled upon a PS/BZ dog and have never looked back. Now I have chosen a pup based on much discussion here and oodles of research, one line led me to another and another....as I am sure you are finding out. My male PS is built somewhat like a Mal and will top out about 75lbs. From what I have learned they can have stong scenting abilities, mine in particular loves it, lacks all civil drive and will not bite, could care less about most people and loves other dogs, would eat a cat if given the chance and loves catching phesants and rabbits, but I am certian with some work he would be an asset as SAR.
> 
> The PS, BZ, Policie dogs are my personal preference. The breeder I chose was due to 2 dogs he has in his breeding stock, and his long standing reputation for being good to deal with. www.gillsgermanshepherds.com
> 
> ...


What's "BZ"?


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> What's "BZ"?


 Blatenskeho zamku


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Harry Keely said:


> Patrick if you want to know the best and get the best go to them man who is responsible for this.
> 
> www.jinopo.cz , good luck.


"Too big to fail" would be my thought, and the border patrol kennels were already using DDR dogs before Jiri joined. He would be more accurately described as 'a great influence'. I would give Jinopo kennels only the most critical consideration for a prospect, myself. With dozens of litters each year and even more outside breedings of their studs, I can recall only two which I found interesting that didn't raise too much speculation about health concerns.


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Christopher Jones said:


> Blatenskeho zamku


you refering to Erri the dog that is co owned by Mike Diehl and Eurosport Chris or another dog?


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> "Too big to fail" would be my thought, and the border patrol kennels were already using DDR dogs before Jiri joined. He would be more accurately described as 'a great influence'. I would give Jinopo kennels only the most critical consideration for a prospect, myself. With dozens of litters each year and even more outside breedings of their studs, I can recall only two which I found interesting that didn't raise too much speculation about health concerns.


Whys that your Faro came form Dari, which buys almost 90% of her dogs from Jinopo, I could be mistaken but faro is also from jinopo but could be wrong on that one. You look at alot of Eurosport dogs right now all bred off of Jiri stock or past stock.


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

That's correct, Jinopo provided Faro and many other dogs to Dari. They were the shipping service as well for my own new puppy. Many czech breeders don't want to deal with the hassle of exporting of their dogs or pups, and the shipper makes a far greater profit than the breeder where a pup is concerned.

The fact that temperament and drives of czech lines have been retained well through it's breeding program is commendable, and so is the fact that healthy production has improved across the board, overall. I would still however, utilize great caution.


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> you refering to Erri the dog that is co owned by Mike Diehl and Eurosport Chris or another dog?


BZ kennels was a large and influential breeder in Czech. The BZ male I knew was a dog called Marko BZ, SchH3, IPO3, ZVV3 to name a few titles. He was twice on the Czech Nats from memory, and had done all of this by four years of age. He was a good dog. Erri was also from the same kennels as Marko. I dont know too much about Erri as he came along after I had moved more into Dutchies.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How much mal is in the Czech lines ?? I have seen my share of nervebags. There were good dogs coming out of there at one time, but out of how many produced ?? There were a ****load that were culled.

Also how old is this information ?? I mean really, how much influence does a dog barely linebred on a dog 5 generations back really going to have on yet another generation ??

They had dogs ****ing non stop, and used showline dogs as well. The quality of the dogs is completely scatter****ed.

To the OP, it is better to research what is going on currently, and not go back so far.


----------



## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

Look at that,


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The spelling wiz is still butchering the english language. Try 2spell check .


----------



## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How much mal is in the Czech lines ?? I have seen my share of nervebags. There were good dogs coming out of there at one time, but out of how many produced ?? There were a ****load that were culled.
> 
> Also how old is this information ?? I mean really, how much influence does a dog barely linebred on a dog 5 generations back really going to have on yet another generation ??
> 
> ...


A dog that shows up many times in the 4th or 5th is going to have significant influence, but otherwise I agree, that each closer generation is twice as important as the one preceding it. If you don't see a strong pedigree in the first few generations, there's no point in looking further back. I also agree about the quality and consistency, and would extend that to Eurosport as well. My preference would be a breeder that works extensively on a more narrow scale of bloodlines.


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How much mal is in the Czech lines ?? I have seen my share of nervebags. There were good dogs coming out of there at one time, but out of how many produced ?? There were a ****load that were culled.
> 
> Also how old is this information ?? I mean really, how much influence does a dog barely linebred on a dog 5 generations back really going to have on yet another generation ??
> 
> ...


 
What does this "OP" stand for?


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Original Poster - You


----------



## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

Naaa takes to long 



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The spelling wiz is still butchering the english language. Try 2spell check .


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Thanks Nancy.


----------



## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How much mal is in the Czech lines ?? I have seen my share of nervebags. There were good dogs coming out of there at one time, but out of how many produced ?? There were a ****load that were culled.
> 
> Also how old is this information ?? I mean really, how much influence does a dog barely linebred on a dog 5 generations back really going to have on yet another generation ??
> 
> ...


Has the Malinois been crossed into some GSD lines? I often see GSDs that show traits very similar to the Malinois and also in appearance. I have asked and gotten a lot of cold responses.

Opinions? or facts? 
http://www.eurosportk9.com/forsale/g/gary/gary5.jpg


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

I personally believe in the first three generations, 4 & 5 are great and stuff but are alot less likely to prove what a pups going to be like I feel its alot more up front and personal in the pedigree for me no matter it be dutchie, mali or GSD. more worried about the genetic crap that may be passed into a pup with the ones in the first three although stuff in the 4 or furtherback could show its head but not as likely as the ones up close.


----------



## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Robin,

This kennel in Slovakia has Mals/GSD's for sale. 

http://www.policedogsk9.sk/index.php?idp=greend


----------



## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Adam Rawlings said:


> Robin,
> 
> This kennel in Slovakia has Mals/GSD's for sale.
> 
> http://www.policedogsk9.sk/index.php?idp=greend


 
Thanks for the link Adam, I just checked out this site, it is funny how intense some of those dogs look, the ones you can tell are the Mal/GSD X.

Do you know if they sell pups as well? I could not find anything about that, do you know what they want for their dogs? Just curious what they charge..

Thanks


----------



## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Kat LaPlante said:


> Thanks for the link Adam, I just checked out this site, it is funny how intense some of those dogs look, the ones you can tell are the Mal/GSD X.
> 
> Do you know if they sell pups as well? I could not find anything about that, do you know what they want for their dogs? Just curious what they charge..
> 
> Thanks


I don't know too much about them, my pups dam is a GSD from their kennel. I'm pretty sure they speak english, so a quick call to enquire couldn't hurt.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Has the Malinois been crossed into some GSD lines? I often see GSDs that show traits very similar to the Malinois and also in appearance. I have asked and gotten a lot of cold responses.

Opinions? or facts? 
http://www.eurosportk9.com/forsale/g/gary/gary5.jpg

Not quite the rep that the Germans had for precise pedigrees and breed wardens, you know, all the checks and balances.

Your example looks suspicious for sure. :-k:-k:-k


----------



## Debbie Dibble (Jan 12, 2010)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Assuming you mean german shepherds, and assuming you're referring to border patrol dogs, and assuming again, those which were influenced by east German working times of the Cold War era (IOW, "DDR"), here are some of the their earlier imports.
> 
> Mek v. Weida Grund
> Bojar v. Shotterhoff
> ...


 i have a male from policia line his father is Hard policia, and just like you said, he has lower prey drive, but higher defensive drive, strong nerved, very stable minded.


----------



## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

I came acorss this page you might find it useful.

http://www.duborez.net/hausfelbab/ser/index_nastanakrase.html


----------



## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

awesome link.


----------

