# Hip opinons?



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

2 years 9 months. Not the greatest set but I am thinking Fair, hopefully not worse, definitely no issues for work. The vet is annotating the shot to include the requisite info for OFA (microchip, registration number)


----------



## Chip Blasiole (Jun 7, 2006)

Looks like some degenerative changes on the femoral heads, especially the right.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ditto on the femoral heads. Right is the worst one and I'd like to see a bit more ball in the socket on both.


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Is hip displasia in GSD related to their conformation? The fact that they are usually more long then tall? I've noticed over the years APBT don't seem to get hip displasia as much. With GSD that topic always has to come up because its so common with them. Same with labs and rottweilers.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

No. More related to years of breeding less than ideal hips.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi Terassita

Which has culminated in many breeders only breeding from HD free lines.

My Briard had HD free hips as well as my elder GSD and the younger one, although not X-rayed Show no signs of it (obviously not documented).

There are many GSD lines in Germany and Switzerland with dogs showing no HD for a number of Generations.


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> No. More related to years of breeding less than ideal hips.


 My gsd has hips similar to the one above. He has a straight back too. He's not one of those roach backed dogs.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Will update with what the OFA says in a few weeks.

While I am not seeing the remodeling being commented on, I do see a slight flat spot on the right head. Is that remodeling or is that the fovea capitus? You can see right through the head to the acetabular rims. 

The x-ray is more transparent than some I have seen. I can also tell the hips are not flat on the table with the right hip and femur slightly lower than the left and the right femur twisted inward. How much that distorts the relative size of the heads and the apparent thickness of the neck, I don't know.

I don't know. My interest is not breeding but the quality of the hips for continued working.


----------



## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

I had the wife look at it. She wasn't sure on long term working. I'd definitely keep him on the thin side and consider starting him on the joint supplements. Both parents had good-to-excellent hips? Got anywhere to put in regular swimming to build muscles without stress on the joints?

Jim


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Hi Terassita
> 
> Which has culminated in many breeders only breeding from HD free lines.
> 
> ...


Gillian can you comment on those lines/dogs. Thanks


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nancy, was there a reason you had him Xrayed or jut in the normal routine?
My older dog Thunder was diagnosed at 2yrs old with Moderate HD. It's only in the past 1 1/2 yrs that he's showed any signs at all. 
Not all dogs with HD will show any issues. I've seen terrible xrays and the dogs lived a long and active life.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Bob, normal routine. Also did backs and elbows.

Both parents good. Sibling x-rayed so far good to excellent. In 3 generations, 2 not listed, one fast normal, one fair, the rest good or a 1/2

No good place for routine swimming but have good hills. Yes on glucosamine/msm/fish oil etc. I agree the right hip is looser than I would like. My dysplasic dog had a lot of remodeling at this age but no symptoms and did fine into old age. He is not showing any signs of problems but the goal is to minimize that.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

One thing I had planned to do this summer anyway was take Beau to a sports veterinarian in Atlanta. She helped a teammate work through a recurring carpal injury in her air scent dog. She can give me a routine for him. My goal was to wait for x-rays (hips, elbows, back) and also get advice on keeping the back strong as that is really my biggest worry. The vet saw no issues with the spine or elbows but I know that these long backed working line GSDs are prone to back injuries and that is what forced Grim's early retirement.

FWIW, thankfully he is not a heavy dog. He is 72# soaking wet.

When my dysplastic dog (she was severe with mushroomed femur heads and flanged sockets by this age) was this age, I was sent to a dog physical therapist who gave me exercises targeted for her helped keep her good until her death at 9 from hemangiosarcoma.


----------



## Ang Cangiano (Mar 2, 2007)

Those are workable hips. I bet they come back fair, I've seen worse get a GOOD rating! At the end of the day though, even if they come back EXCELLENT _you_ know what they are.

Ang


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I once talked to a women who had a female GSD with hips as good as a greyhound. But I was more interested in the feamles drives and how she produced those traits, did she bite hard etc. Health can easily take a back seat since low drive dogs with awesome hips and spines are not suitable to be working dogs.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Thompson said:


> Is hip displasia in GSD related to their conformation? The fact that they are usually more long then tall? I've noticed over the years APBT don't seem to get hip displasia as much. With GSD that topic always has to come up because its so common with them. Same with labs and rottweilers.


Ben, how have you noticed this? 

APBT do get hip dysplasia, its just that hardly anyone ever xrays them.

add in the great musculature and higher pain tolerances and most dogs will never show signs until they are older unless it is severe. Then it is called "arthritis".


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Ben, how have you noticed this?
> 
> APBT do get hip dysplasia, its just that hardly anyone ever xrays them.
> 
> add in the great musculature and higher pain tolerances and most dogs will never show signs until they are older unless it is severe. Then it is called "arthritis".


They are certainly not x rayed much. Doesn't seem to matter if they are scatterbred, inbred, outcrossed, linebred. They just don't generally seem to get it as much. But like you said the high pain tolerance and the fact that they are muscle bound covers it up. Somebody told me more squarely built dogs are less likely to get hip issues. I don't know if that is true or not. 

I think you said your Presa had it a long time ago. One of the worse cases ever.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

He was graded OFA good on the hips. DJD1 on the elbows. No lameness, and I understand many dogs never have issues with DJD1 elbows but I will follow up with vet.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Fantabulous!


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

So this thread went from people hoping he might be able to scrap through with a fair score and people not sure if he was going to be capable of having a working career to him getting a good rating and he is now fit and fine. I think it goes to show just how little we know about hips and how they effect the dog. Happy your boy scored well.


----------



## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Christopher Jones said:


> So this thread went from people hoping he might be able to scrap through with a fair score and people not sure if he was going to be capable of having a working career to him getting a good rating and he is now fit and fine. I think it goes to show just how little we know about hips and how they effect the dog. Happy your boy scored well.



Very true...


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I still plan on working on building more muscle....and asking a vet if we should do any more testing (e.g., cat scan) on the elbows. 

From all I can gather from multiple sources and research, DJD1 is very often NOT associated with any joint disease in a sound dog. .. but it sometimes is associated with a problem.

I will be more consistent with not letting him jump off the tailgate and giving him glucosamine, but other than that, I can't see any changes. I was surprised on the hips. I really thought fair.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Gillian can you comment on those lines/dogs. Thanks


Hi Terrasita

Must have missed this (on busman's holiday 

I'll try and compile a list for you: I know this is important so I will not Forget it.

Gillian


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Nancy, was there a reason you had him Xrayed or jut in the normal routine?
> My older dog Thunder was diagnosed at 2yrs old with Moderate HD. It's only in the past 1 1/2 yrs that he's showed any signs at all.
> Not all dogs with HD will show any issues. I've seen terrible xrays and the dogs lived a long and active life.


This is a fact that is often overlooked. Our Fila Brasileiro had less than good hip results (about middling) but, our vet told us that each HD Report tells its own story. Gaucho had always had, from 8 months on, extremely good muscles (my friend at our physical fitness centre called him the "Body builder".) The more muscles a dog has, the less he suffers from the Hip Dysplasia. It is still there but held up by the muscles. Gaucho lived to be 14,5 years.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Ben Thompson said:


> I once talked to a women who had a female GSD with hips as good as a greyhound. But I was more interested in the feamles drives and how she produced those traits, did she bite hard etc. Health can easily take a back seat since low drive dogs with awesome hips and spines are not suitable to be working dogs.


 Well blow me down with a feather - this is the most idiotic post I've seen for a long time.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

There is a new "opinion" on hip Displaysia that definitely says it is genetic. (I'm still struggling with the texrs in German).

It was always said that part of the blame for HD was that the owners were partly responsible.

I must honestly say that my last three dogs were HD free,all from a relatively long line of HD-free parents, etc. and I was overjoyed. Protection work is guarenteed at least physically.

There is the back side to the story. If all breeders just use HD free dogs to breed from, will other good traits from HD infested dogs with other good traits go awol?


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Well blow me down with a feather - this is the most idiotic post I've seen for a long time.


May the curse of the black pearl fall on your limey head.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I don't think we British have been called "limeys" for a long time now in the US. If that is your answer to my post, then your intellect is surely "unterste Schubladen"


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

At least I have never been called a "Limey". Just shows you what you can experience on a allegedly neutral Dog Forum :-s


----------



## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Re: limey, I think he was talking "pirate speak", maybe a reference to "blow me down with a feather", which also sounded to my hillbilly ear like "pirate speak". So maybe no nationalistic insult was intended, just a reference to pirates/sailors?


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I don't think so and can see no connections! Limey was attributed to the British years ago.

What do you think he meant my "Limey"? I would be really interested to know. I do not wish to make an issue of this but would certainly like to stake my point.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Re: limey, I think he was talking "pirate speak", maybe a reference to "blow me down with a feather", which also sounded to my hillbilly ear like "pirate speak". So maybe no nationalistic insult was intended, just a reference to pirates/sailors?


Sorry, but for me your are talking "double dutch"!!

"Blow be down with a feather" is equivalent to "geez, what are you saying?"


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Re: limey, I think he was talking "pirate speak", maybe a reference to "blow me down with a feather", which also sounded to my hillbilly ear like "pirate speak". So maybe no nationalistic insult was intended, just a reference to pirates/sailors?


Aye, I thought someone who implied I was a idiot could take a little pirate talk.


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I don't think so and can see no connections! Limey was attributed to the British years ago.
> 
> What do you think he meant my "Limey"? I would be really interested to know. I do not wish to make an issue of this but would certainly like to stake my point.


Been called a Limey is hardly an insult. It relates back to the fact that the British realized you needed vitamin c to stop people getting scurvy and so kept alot of lime on board their ships to stop that happening. Not really an insult if its pointing out something the Brits did right.


----------

