# Bite duration.



## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

While you're training, how long +/- do you leave your dog on the bite (per bite) before commanding release?

What is your rationale for it?

When do you command the release sooner than later? Why?

Please enrich your answers with observations regarding other people's dogs...if you can...


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> While you're training, how long +/- do you leave your dog on the bite (per bite) before commanding release?
> 
> What is your rationale for it?
> 
> ...


i try to vary it. sometimes very short. sometimes much longer. that's for a few reasons. 1) so the dog does not "time" me and self out when the timer in his head goes off, 2) to simulate real life. sometimes bites will be very quick on the street, sometimes for a bit longer....


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Tim, What's short and what's long?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Like Tim, I like a variation. It prevents timing problems. Short and long are difficult to describe. With a newer dogs, it's short enough for a full engagement, solid bite. Long enough is always just short of the dog wanting to release. With an experienced dog short can range anywhere from seconds to 15 seconds. Long can, perhaps up to 25 to 45 seconds. In addition to the timing however, I also like to include the actions of the decoy. Ensureing the dog does not release a still subject, calling the dog off from a still subject and one still fighting. 

DFrost


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Do you set specific goals for each bitework training session, and do those goals dictate the duration of the bites as well? If yes, what "can be" some of those specific goals?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Young dogs may bite long (up to 3-4 minutes) if the bite stays good, to learn to improver their bite. If first bite isn´t good, very short and another (good/bettter)bite.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Ensureing the dog does not release a still subject, calling the dog off from a still subject and one still fighting.
> 
> DFrost


VERY important. especially a dog with a sport background (where the dog stops biting when the badguy stops fighting).


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> Ensureing the dog does not release a still subject, calling the dog off from a still subject and one still fighting.


 Agreed.

To the other forum members that do bitework, please chime in...so we can have an interesting discussion about bite development...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'll add my minimal sport view on bite duration. 
As others have said, a lot depends on the dog. With a green dog that has a solid bite, the sleeve is slipped as soon as the bite is made. Time is built on from there. 
With an older dog that has a chewy bite, it will be kept on the sleeve, ideally till it calms down, then rewarded with the sleeve. 
With a good dog that normally has a good, deep grip, but bites shallow, it will be allowed to regrip or loose the bite altogether. Depends on the reason for the shallow grip. 
I will say that sport trained dogs are often put through their "normal" exercise and then outed with the helper locking up and/or the "out command. Not much variation.
Even though were primarily sport, we try to vary the exercises. Were not big fans of pattern training. We want the dog to expect the fight goes on till the fight is over (aka Yogi Berra) Not always 5, 10 seconds after the initial bite is made.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

<<<Do you set specific goals for each bitework training session,>>

I believe every training session should have specific goals, regardless of what you are training to do. If not, you're just wasting valuable training time.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Specific goals
The TD will always tell us what and why were doing something. 
It may be based on an upcomming trial or possibly a particular situation or problem we've ran into in receint training. 
After training we always go eat somewhere. That's often when we discuss our next training plans/goals. 
You can't reach you goals without planning. You can't make plans without goals in mind.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I like David's response. Young dogs on a sleeve are just a few seconds long, slip and wins. Police dogs or PPDs I want fight drive to last about a minute. The "bad guy" can roll around, holler, or even crawl away. I want the dog staying on the bite until he gets and out command.


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