# Ring Starter Kit



## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm trying to talk my TD in to doing some french ring training on our field. I will probably have to buy all the gear. What equipment do you consider essential for training the protection phase of ring from puppy to advanced (aside from leashes etc)?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Ben Colbert said:


> I'm trying to talk my TD in to doing some french ring training on our field. I will probably have to buy all the gear. What equipment do you consider essential for training the protection phase of ring from puppy to advanced (aside from leashes etc)?



DON'T

Ring sport isn't DIY
Find a Ring club with equipment and an experienced Ring decoy.
Trying to do Ring sport with a Schutzhund decoy is a BAD idea.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm in a tough spot here.

There's no recognized clubs in my area. I know I'm not going to have a championship dog when I'm done but what else would I do?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

A few different types of jambieres jute and french linen with the quick release leather strap. Plus Belgian arm sleeves, if you are not using a harness you need one for working grips and entries. A bungee is nice but first you need someone to show you how to use it.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Yes I agree with Thomas it is tough to do Ring with a Schh decoy as they always feel the need to bring defense into the work. Ring the foundation really is all about building the dog in prey. If your decoy can get that mentality you have a chance if not ... "It's finished" to quote a French decoy I train with.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Ben,

Have you tried contacting either of the Ring organizations to see if they can offer any support? Hosting a seminar with some qualified decoys and trainers might drum up some interest with others and help get you started in the right direction.

Just a thought.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Ben Colbert said:


> I'm in a tough spot here.
> 
> There's no recognized clubs in my area. I know I'm not going to have a championship dog when I'm done but what else would I do?


Have you ever considered doing something that you do have access too?


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## Shade Whitesel (Aug 18, 2010)

What about doing Schutzhund with a ring decoy? Are the two sports really that different? I mean, the dog is biting, right? Just different targets?


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## Wawashkashi Tashi (Aug 25, 2009)

Shade Whitesel said:


> What about doing Schutzhund with a ring decoy? Are the two sports really that different? I mean, the dog is biting, right? Just different targets?


I'd say yes, it *really* is that different. In Sch, the dog really only has 1 target. In suitwork, the dog can bite _anywhere_.. & it's probably easier to break teeth, injure the dog, etc, when someone who doesn't know how to use the suit climbs in it to "try it out".  -Not to mention the majority of Sch decoys we've had come out to learn some suitwork with us rethink that plan once they actually _feel_ the bite & get all marked up. It'd be a pity to spend a bunch of $$ on a suit, then have whoever is the helper bail on your Ring plans after a few days of feeling the bites. (I'm not saying all Sch decoys are a bunch of wusses.. just that in my experience many who have never taken a suitbite a typically unhappy about the difference in sensation.)
There's quite a few great people involved in Ringsports. I agree that you'd probably be best off trying to find a club to go check out &/or attending a seminar or two, to get a better feel for the differences. It's super-fun & very much worth pursuing! IMO you should try to find someone experienced! HTH :wink:


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Guys I appreciate your advice and I understand where you are coming from but one has to start somewhere. At one point in the not so distant past there was no ring sport in the US, then there was no ring sport on the east coast, then none in the north east and now there is no ring sport in NYC.

I have reached out to one of the Ring organizations about them sponsoring a seminar in Staten Isalnd. I'm luck enough to have access to a venue. I will be attending any ring seminar I can.

In the mean time...what do you guy consider the absolutely necessary equipment to bring a dog from pup to FRIII?


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Ben Colbert said:


> In the mean time...what do you guy consider the absolutely necessary equipment to bring a dog from pup to FRIII?


Most important is an experienced decoy and a good team to help you. First you need those and then you can start worrying about the necessary equipment.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Thanks Martine! I didn't think about that! No one suggested that previous!


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## Shade Whitesel (Aug 18, 2010)

I'd say it's pretty easy to injure the dog and break teeth in sleeve work as well. I can't send my dog at any distance with someone who doesn't know what they are doing!
I'd agree with you about the Schutzhund helpers not being used to feeling the bite. And the Schutzhund dogs not being able to feel the bite as well! Might lead to a really different emphasis in training in my opinion. The different targets, sleeve vs suit, and turning the head for legs is probably just the easy stuff for the dogs.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben...
I would also agree that to get to a RING III you will need experienced help in the training of the dog. especially a decoy, most likely more than just a decoy.

I was able to decoy for a friend in order for her to get a FR I, but am no where near fast or skilled enough in the specifics of the sport, and lack the knowledge of the tricks of trade for training a FR program, to train a dog for a III. 

Since I am not into FR these items are just a guess, I am sure you will need more than this. But this should be a good start...In fact I know you will need more, you will need someone who knows how to train a FR program sequentially, and people to help that are familiar with FR and a decoy that knows FR well enough to train a dog to a III and TEST a dog to a III. Someone who knows how to work dogs and do suit work, and train for FR...

I dont do ring but my GUESSES would be. 

harness, collars, various lines 
Ecollar (most likely)
batons
various leg sleeves/jambiere's 
a decoy
various tugs, rags etc. balls/toys
belgian arms, sleeves
bite suit(s)
a decoy
muzzle(s)
whistle
Blank gun/blanks
retrieve item(s)
Basket
a decoy
palisade
A frame (for training)
a decoy
long jump
hurdle(s)
Blinds
etc.......and a decoy..

And lastly a DAMN good dog that is well suited for FR, to make up for everything else that you are lacking...and a decoy

since I took the time, you are planning on doing this yourself with your dog? What kind of dog do you have? and who is going to decoy?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Shade Whitesel said:


> I'd say it's pretty easy to injure the dog and break teeth in sleeve work as well. I can't send my dog at any distance with someone who doesn't know what they are doing!
> I'd agree with you about the Schutzhund helpers not being used to feeling the bite. And the Schutzhund dogs not being able to feel the bite as well! Might lead to a really different emphasis in training in my opinion. The different targets, sleeve vs suit, and turning the head for legs is probably just the easy stuff for the dogs.


eh...my SCH helper has has suits forever too..and knows how to work in one...although the formal club that we go to, does not allow muzzle work or suit work on their grounds...which I fully understand..we still train at another location of our choice as well.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Shade Whitesel said:


> What about doing Schutzhund with a ring decoy? Are the two sports really that different? I mean, the dog is biting, right? Just different targets?


To a point up to when the pup is teething and then it's not just targets like in SchH it becomes technique in FR that makes or breaks the dog. 

The initial foundation is very similar for a pup i.e rag, tug, bite pillow/wedge though once the pup gets its adult teeth in French Ring you work leg pivots, inside and outside arm bites and start showing the dog other options where to bite in response to certain pressure from the decoy. Such as stick barrages and pushing on the stick. It's a lot more work than just targeting a sleeve on the outside arm. 



Ben Colbert said:


> In the mean time...what do you guy consider the absolutely necessary equipment to bring a dog from pup to FRIII?


He he he ... ok, 

Minimum 30m x 70m field, (fenced of course) 6 regulation blinds, 8 different coloured traffic cones, regulation sized basket, about 100m of 3/4" bamboo, Regulation jumps (palisade,hurdle and long) (A-Frame to teach the palisade, puppy hurdles) bite equipment .. rags, tugs, jambieres, wedges, arm sleeves, bite suit and someone to wear it that hopefully has a clue. Spray paint. 

For the dog. Harness for all life stages, assorted training collars, 10m long line, 5m long line, 3m thin long line for operating the prong collar. Different tension bungees and tie outs. 

For the handler, Training Vest with regulation retrieve items, Fox40 whistle. Patience, time, perserverence and a little bit of craziness, yup that should get you there! \\/


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Joby,

I'm getting a nice Mali puppy and have always loved ring but never had enough dog to give it a shot. I figured now that I will have a dog I'd like to give it a shot. Who would have thought that it'd be so difficult to find a club with an hour of the most populous city in the country?

It will probably be a combination of myself and my schutzhund TD doing decoy work. I would love nothing more than find an experienced decoy to work with and have contacted both NARA and ARF to get some assistance and ask if they'd be willing to sponsor a decoy seminar.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Colbert said:


> Joby,
> 
> I'm getting a nice Mali puppy and have always loved ring but never had enough dog to give it a shot. I figured now that I will have a dog I'd like to give it a shot. Who would have thought that it'd be so difficult to find a club with an hour of the most populous city in the country?
> 
> It will probably be a combination of myself and my schutzhund TD doing decoy work. I would love nothing more than find an experienced decoy to work with and have contacted both NARA and ARF to get some assistance and ask if they'd be willing to sponsor a decoy seminar.


not sure, but I think it is YOU that sponsors the seminar..not them... If they are good guys, and you get enough interest ($) to cover travel, lodging and food from people in the area, shouldn't be a problem..I wouldn't think..


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Sure, but as an organization devoted to advancing French Ring in America I would think they would have interest in helping set up a new club.

There's no way I could afford to bring in decoys without a club supporting me.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> There's no way I could afford to bring in decoys without a club supporting me.





Geoff Empey said:


> Patience, time, perserverence and a little bit of craziness, yup that should get you there!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Colbert said:


> Sure, but as an organization devoted to advancing French Ring in America I would think they would have interest in helping set up a new club.
> 
> There's no way I could afford to bring in decoys without a club supporting me.


I think you found your answer....start a club, find more people with an interest such as yours...


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## Jake Brandyberry (Jan 24, 2010)

If you are still in NYC contact Vinnie Demaio

*East Coast Ringers *
Covering Westchester and Coram Long Island, New York 
Contact Vinnie Demaio [email protected]


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Yea I would second what Jake said and contact Vinnie there right near the suffolk and nassau county line of the L.I.E. , They are a ARF club and from what I understand there the only ring club because I coulod be wrong so don't qoute me but the NARA club is no longer operating. Also there a new and young club but don't mistake that because they are serious about training and get their dogs titled in ring. Good luck Ben.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> Sure, but as an organization devoted to advancing French Ring in America I would think they would have interest in helping set up a new club.
> 
> There's no way I could afford to bring in decoys without a club supporting me.


One important tool nobody mentioned including myself that was missed is *"Passion"
*
That means you won't get it delivered to you on a silver platter and have it hand fed to you like a Greek goddess is fed a grape. 

I drive 2-3 hours one way to train every time I train. Others I train with drive a lot more, some go to France once or twice a year to train with a French club to update skills, others bring in decoys known and unknown it is about the passion to do this wonderful sport. There is nothing easy about it, no shortcuts except for hard work. I'm not saying this to discourage you. I would love to see you on an international championship podium in a couple of years. Once you get into it and see the enjoyment that your dog gets and the passion builds. Ben if you have the passion you will do it by finding a way that works for you.


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Good on you Ben for jumping into ring. you will need a cup, new decoys tend to draw the dog up to the jewels. bamboo clatter stick , burlap rag , bite tube , reward tube, leg sleeve , and a suit. the dancing with dogs video is not to bad for explaining suit work. Herve Mavunga has a dvd that shows good training from pup to adult. good luck 
Where is your pup from?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Hans Akerbakk said:


> Herve Mavunga has a dvd that shows good training from pup to adult.


Hans

Do you have a link or pointer to where this DVD is available?
Thanks


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hans
> 
> Do you have a link or pointer to where this DVD is available?
> Thanks


+1


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

I bought the Herve dvd thru Karin Corpal she films all the French coupe . Google her name and you should be able to find a link.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Hans Akerbakk said:


> I bought the Herve dvd thru Karin Corpal she films all the French coupe . Google her name and you should be able to find a link.


Here it is .. http://www.caporal.com.fr/www.caporal.com.fr-realisations.html Just a heads up all the dialog is all en francais. I don't believe it is subtitled in English. If you speak dog though I'm sure you'll be fine. 

Better yet the May 14-15-16 -17, 2011 the CRA Club de Trois Brasseurs in Montreal Quebec are hosting a FR trial with M. Mavuanga and a multiple day decoy camp. So I'm sure you could get your DVD signed in person by Herve!  That and an esquive or a few stick hits .. LOL!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Ben we touched on passion and overcoming roadblocks that prevent people to train. I have a nice video here from the Classic 1999 French Coupe to inspire you. This dog is L'O de la Cite des Muages it took 4 times for this dog to pass his Brevet everyone teased the owner and ridiculed the dog's character and training. But 2 years later look where they ended up. You can see the dog isn't super strong but they worked within the dogs limitations and always kept building the dogs basic foundation so that the dog always had a place in his head to return to when things got tough. In the end they got a very good score and gained a whole lot of respect. It was all done with passion to do the work with the dog and not listening to the haters. Well actually haters = motivators in this case! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgVQCuUa1YQ


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

inspiring vid, thanks for sharing...
I had to re-read it...if that *was* the Brevet, that would not be inspiring LOL....


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> inspiring vid, thanks for sharing...
> I had to re-read it...if that *was* the Brevet, that would not be inspiring LOL....


Ha ha Jeff O says you are post skimmer maybe he is right!  One of the French Decoys I train with showed me this and told me the story of the dog, his handler and training decoy. Everyone likes a underdog that beats the odds and this was one. 

So people can say they need the best e-collar, the best genetics they can pay for on paper pedigree, the top decoy flown in every week, etc etc. 

When in reality it is having a plan, sticking to it working through the adversity to bring out the best your team can do. That's the passion.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> Ha ha Jeff O says you are post skimmer maybe he is right!  One of the French Decoys I train with showed me this and told me the story of the dog, his handler and training decoy. Everyone likes a underdog that beats the odds and this was one.
> 
> So people can say they need the best e-collar, the best genetics they can pay for on paper pedigree, the top decoy flown in every week, etc etc.
> 
> When in reality it is having a plan, sticking to it working through the adversity to bring out the best your team can do. That's the passion.


focused passion is a great asset...and as I am learning, a necessity for some... (have not found a love for FST yet, I have been told I will though)


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## Kevin lee (Jan 15, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Ben we touched on passion and overcoming roadblocks that prevent people to train. I have a nice video here from the Classic 1999 French Coupe to inspire you. This dog is L'O de la Cite des Muages it took 4 times for this dog to pass his Brevet everyone teased the owner and ridiculed the dog's character and training. But 2 years later look where they ended up. You can see the dog isn't super strong but they worked within the dogs limitations and always kept building the dogs basic foundation so that the dog always had a place in his head to return to when things got tough. In the end they got a very good score and gained a whole lot of respect. It was all done with passion to do the work with the dog and not listening to the haters. Well actually haters = motivators in this case!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgVQCuUa1YQ



Mr Etienne DUPLAN is a great trainer and L'O has a BIG heart.


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## Kevin lee (Jan 15, 2008)

Hans Akerbakk said:


> I bought the Herve dvd thru Karin Corpal she films all the French coupe . Google her name and you should be able to find a link.


Hi Hans, 

Hope will see you in Montreal next year to see Herve.

kevin


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Hey Kevin its good to see you made your certification.Maybe my little female will let you have a closer look at how clover grows some day. She's very fffffast, and has excellent technique.
Herve is one seminar I would love to be attend, I hear He's a very motivational trainer. And if your looking for a tough dog check out the 2005 coupe .Some of those dogs took a lot of crap to only recieve 5 pts, heart of lions. I have been working out of town alot so I can't commit 3 weeks in1 week out . Unless you would except me last minute kinda like a wild card spot.I'd like to see Montreal again.
Take care friend.


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Ben , Herve Mavuange on the East coast you should go to this seminar .When Decoys of this caliber are close don't miss out. I don't do many seminars any more but Herve is one I would like to attend.
The last one I attended was Jimmy Vanhouve excellent seminar ,and Kevin Jimmy knows how Canadian clover grows.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Hans Akerbakk said:


> Ben , Herve Mavuange on the East coast you should go to this seminar .When Decoys of this caliber are close don't miss out. I don't do many seminars any more but Herve is one I would like to attend.
> The last one I attended was Jimmy Vanhouve excellent seminar ,and Kevin Jimmy knows how Canadian clover grows.


Yeah Jimmy was a lot of fun eh Hans? I was only able to make the one day as I was flying out the next day but we had a blast working with everyone out west. 

I'm really looking forward to working with Herve Ben. His work with puppies and young dogs looks pretty amazing. Check some of it out here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3hf2wnrPVs&feature=related


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## Kevin lee (Jan 15, 2008)

Hans Akerbakk said:


> Hey Kevin its good to see you made your certification.Maybe my little female will let you have a closer look at how clover grows some day. She's very fffffast, and has excellent technique.
> Herve is one seminar I would love to be attend, I hear He's a very motivational trainer. And if your looking for a tough dog check out the 2005 coupe .Some of those dogs took a lot of crap to only recieve 5 pts, heart of lions. I have been working out of town alot so I can't commit 3 weeks in1 week out . Unless you would except me last minute kinda like a wild card spot.I'd like to see Montreal again.
> Take care friend.



Thanks Hans, As you know one of the hardest thing in FR is the decoy certification.Next spring i will try my Level 2 certification.I am not the best trial decoy but who cares.We need decoys in Canada to keep the sport growing and I hope people will keep support decoys.Some thinks that decoys are just biting bitches and no respect at all. I am one of the co founder of "Club de ring des 3 Brasseurs" with 2 other friends.They help me so much to keep the passion for the sport. Without their support, I was so close to quite the game( Too much BS).


I still remember the first time I met you was in June 2007. My first ever FR trial for Yako's Brevet with a 98.9  . You were the first trial decoy that I competed against.Next " Victim" HERVE MAGUANGA. 

I am looking forward to met you again and your dog. You should show me how to keep the speed Vs technique of a dog.I will be in Vancouver next spring for the 'Fraser Valley Ring Club Trial'. Hope we will have the chance to hang out and talk about FR stuffs.

Not only Herve is a motivational trainer but he is very passionate and a cool guy.He will bring one of his personal dog and will come with one of his club member and his dog( will compete at our trial). So you will have the chance to work with some high level dogs at the seminar and see some good level FR3 dog compete in a trial in Canada.

For me 99' and 05 ' are the best final with the 2 Herves: Jacopite and Mavuanga.

Anyway just let me know if you are coming to Montreal. Herve will stay for 2 weeks.We will have time to hang out and visit Montreal area.

Cheers

Kevin


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## Kevin lee (Jan 15, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Yeah Jimmy was a lot of fun eh Hans? I was only able to make the one day as I was flying out the next day but we had a blast working with everyone out west.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to working with Herve Ben. His work with puppies and young dogs looks pretty amazing. Check some of it out here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3hf2wnrPVs&feature=related


Monsieur Empey,

I think Hans is talking about the seminar by the WCRC March 2010.


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## Kevin lee (Jan 15, 2008)

More Info will come soon about the seminar and trial with Herve.We were supposed to have a club meeting last Saturday at the restaurant after training but we were all drunk.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Kevin lee said:


> More Info will come soon about the seminar and trial with Herve.We were supposed to have a club meeting last Saturday at the restaurant after training but we were all drunk.


I can attest to that! =;


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Looks like a great spring for ring in Canada. Congrats on the club Kevin.
I'm looking forward to seeing you and Geoff.


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## eugene ramirez (Jun 22, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> One important tool nobody mentioned including myself that was missed is *"Passion"
> *


@Geoff, passion is a powerful motivating force, it can make the difference between success and failure.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

hey Ben I live in Newark N.j. I train in french ring. I didn't last yr because my decoy hasn't been around. PM me and I will give you my number. We can talk.


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