# from 6 weeks to 6 months



## Rory Hennebry (Jan 22, 2011)

Hello all, I have been lurking here for a bit, by way of re-introduction here is a few videos. I am helping a friend of mine bring on his pup.

- any feedback, positive / negative or otherwise would be greatfully appreciated...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWEfYY_2NX0&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-TT-NBLhak&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI2B1EMkuSk&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_irj4R9NF0&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIWiHkmNaBw&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipsS7A25A-c&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsFhrBqpCHQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0KW5CNcfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXEBYwOV3Lw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np7qtcDPEf8&feature=plcp

Thanks,

R.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Wow, what a super cool roof mount/dismount. 


Havent viewed the others yet.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

What an awesome little pup!! Hope you keep posting vids of him.


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## Sam LaRochelle (Jan 31, 2012)

Nice pup!! Great videos, please keep posting them


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

super cool. What breeds went into the pup?

thanks for sharing the video


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Interesting stuff you did with that puppy.


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Awsome pup!

Just curious, does anyone think its doing too much too soon though?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Meng Xiong said:


> Awsome pup!
> 
> Just curious, does anyone think its doing too much too soon though?


do you think that?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Meng Xiong said:


> Awsome pup!
> 
> Just curious, does anyone think its doing too much too soon though?



There is the thought that you may mask what is really there. Nothing wrong with that thought but my choice is work with a pup.


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## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

Nice environmental exposure with the pup...


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## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

Tim Connell said:


> Nice environmental exposure with the pup...



Tried to edit to add...but I was too late...

Nice environmental exposure with the pup...my only concern would be where the dog will want to target later...with a lot of this very early imprinting on the forearm, will it always want to default to the forearm target rather than up in the pocket/bicep area, or going to a leg...I guess it depends on your preference...


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

He sure does seem like a nice puppy.. thanks for sharing the videos! 


What are your plans for him? 


It very well may be a bit "too much, too soon", but often you don't know until it is too late and the dog is broken down already at 2 years old.. I just generally tend to subscribe to the idea that just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. 

The few key things I see "wrong" (just stuff I wouldn't do) are that whether you are training him for Police, Personal Protection or Sport, you are giving him a very unstable target, teaching/encouraging him to bite low on the forearm/wrist and when you are using no equipment at all, you are doing absolutely nothing to develop proper gripping behavior. That is first and foremost in my training for dogs of any type of bitework application. It's great that he'll do all the things you've done with him thus far, but you are teaching him to bite very shallow and be satisfied with it and even in some cases, bite clothing and be satisfied with it. With enough pressure, a good decoy could easily push him right off a grip if he still bites like that later on in his life.


Best of luck with him!


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## Rory Hennebry (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks for watching the videos and giving your feed back. I will put up any videos as we do them.

Here is my thoughts on the questions raised-

Ref- is the pup doing to much? The pup lives in a familly environment, travels around with his handler where ever he goes he brings the pup so he is a well rounded pup and takes most things in his stride. While the videos have a lot of bite work we spend more time doing stabilization in training than biting. He appears to me to be very capable of dealing with the training and is developing a good positive attitude.

Ref- tageting,- the pup is encouraged to target arms with weapons, and then avoid blows from other hands or legs or re-bite where the blow is comming from. I don't believe his handler has any intentions of putting him on a sports field so the idea is just help him develop his fighting to the best of his natural ability, hence the re-biting and targeting of the weapon hand.

I would not be concerned about a shallow bite. If he wants to use his canines to rip and tear so be it, and if the decoy or bad guy can get him off the bite I would like if he re-engaged and came back in fast.

@Britney, I agree with that about biting the clothes- where he managed to bite the bandages and pull, in general he is encouraged to go right in on the arm.

Thank you all again.


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## Rory Hennebry (Jan 22, 2011)

A quick update, the pup is now 9 months. 

A leap of faith-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HDXBqSwUPA&list=UUZyn7Psj8zr1bUtVL0gxJTA&index=2&feature=plcp

Bite work-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DpulcvZz8A&feature=channel&list=UL


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Rory Hennebry said:


> A quick update, the pup is now 9 months.
> 
> A leap of faith-
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HDXBqSwUPA&list=UUZyn7Psj8zr1bUtVL0gxJTA&index=2&feature=plcp
> ...


Awesome stuff, keep it up. You Cantrell the dog is having a great time. Just one thing. He is looking a little heavy and that could be tough with all the cool agility stuff you're doing. That could just be the 10 pounds video adds


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## Jake Brandyberry (Jan 24, 2010)

Well first your decoy is going to kill your dog. Why are you teaching the dog to transfer the bite ?


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Personally I love the exposure you're giving the pup and the agility scenarios you work, but I'm not a fan of that bitework. 

To me, the transferring and shallow grips will only get him or his handler seriously injured down the road..

To each his own, but nice control work on those obedience exercises.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

so far i watched half of the vids and seems like a very nice confident pup

just a quick observation since you are doing bite work at an early age ... if you want to develop his grip i would lose that green knit sleeve and use a pony wrap, which is not very fat so he should be able to get on it, but it will not allow him to get a fang grip and should encourage a deeper one

other material and techniques available too for building a deeper grab, but i just don't care for the way he grabs the knit and it is not what you want to condition even as a pup


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I like the first video. It reminds me just a bit of Gary and Xena.
I agree about transferring the bite in the second video. The dog seems very confused and not very committed about where to bite.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

I like the dog...why not get the dog comfortable on the bite ..placing him in the bicep or leg, getting him to bite full and deep first...then work on your targeting later...no need to rush ..it would take you a small amount of extra time and the picture would be much clearer for the dog..he can still bite deep, full and crush while targeting..


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## Rory Hennebry (Jan 22, 2011)

@Larry Krohn- thank you very much for your feed back, I hope the 10 extras lbs comment is about the dog and not the handler cause I know he is a very sensitive soul. 

@Jake Brandyberry- thanks for the feedback, I know it's not the intention of the decoy to kill the pup so you might explain how and preferably when and where he was going to do this, thanks for the heads up.
As for 'why' teach the pup to re-target, well the handler has taken his own and others experience of violent situations involving trained dogs and weapons and believes that the best way to keep the dog alive and ultimately useful in violent encounters and for his personal situation is to have a dog that does not bite a per-determined fore-arm or bicep and hold on regardless of weapons. 
I will give an example, there were some soccer fans last year traveled here from another part of Europe who were not content with the football or the local police being present, anyway what ever the reason one ran at a police dog handler and presented his arm much in the fashion of a trained sports decoy. He had some sort of heavy jacket on and was happy to take the bite of the dog on his forearm while inserting a large flat head screw driver into the dogs rib cage causing a lot of damage. 
The idea of allowing a dog avoid blows of weapons is not a new one. Col. Konrad Most brought up the issue in his book over a 100 years ago,
''Unless we provide dogs with armour, we should never train them to be steady under the stick, for a single well directed blow will always be enough to render them incapable of self defence. A dog with its limbs broken can be of no further use to its master. In trials, steadiness under the stick is only shown under conditions in which the stick used and the force of the blows are calculated to spare the dog's bones. This may result in his attacking blindly on active service and thereby cause him to run into trouble.
On such a dog it may be said, "Well, he did his duty." But has the animal in reality performed any service to its master when it is struck down by the cudgel of a man it has attacked before being able to seize him? The only result is that the master is deprived of his dog's assistance. It is surely far more to the purpose so to train the animal that it will evade the blows of a man laying about him with a cudgel by merely circling round him barking or remaining barking near him.''
'''Those who hold anthropomorphic views on 'brave' and 'cowardly' dogs may wish to have a dog with the attributes often shown in working trials. Here he may appear to be the 'bravest' animal in the world, not to be diverted from his purpose by the blows of a stick administered by a sham criminal in protective clothing, but ready to defend his master 'to the death'. The expert knows, however, that the heros of the trial ground may well prove useless bundles of nerves on active service. Their actual lack of interest in defense may in fact have been effaced by regular experience of fights involving no danger.' Col. K. Most.''

@Dave Martin- thanks for your feed back it is appreciated. 

@Rick Smith- thank you for taking the time to respond, I think I mentioned in an earlier post that it was not intentional that the pup bite the fabric and in general the horse bandages are tighter wrapped. But thanks again for the feed back.

@Bob Scott- the comparison with Gary and Xena is high praise and I am sure the handler would appreciate it. 
ref- not being committed or clear on where he should be biting- I believe it is the intention of the handler to allow his dog take the bite anywhere depending on the individual situation. I believe operational bites are most commonly on the most available target regardless of training and that with that information the handler is working with the dogs natural default response when real stress is applied. But any further thoughts would be grealy appreciated.

@Will Fernandez- I will definitely think about what you said and pass on the opinion to the handler. The dog is accustomed to biting the decoy in the video from an early age. When an attack comes on the handler from a decoy he has not met before he fights in a more chaotic and aggressive manner.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

> I will give an example, there were some soccer fans last year traveled here from another part of Europe who were not content with the football or the local police being present, anyway what ever the reason one ran at a police dog handler and presented his arm much in the fashion of a trained sports decoy. He had some sort of heavy jacket on and was happy to take the bite of the dog on his forearm while inserting a large flat head screw driver into the dogs rib cage causing a lot of damage.


In other words, you feel the biting style you're training could have prevented this weapon harming your dog?

Interesting concept, and I look forward to hearing others' responses, but to me the dog is in *far* more danger constantly disengaging a suspect when he could just be kicked or flung off a cliff, down a stairway, etc.. 

Imagine a dog like this attacked the same person in your example, and how easily the attacker could have slipped the jacket with only your dog's front canines engaged.. this could have led to both him _and _ his handler getting stabbed, IMO.

I'm always interested in hearing how and why different handlers train things differently, but I do not believe training anything but a full, hard grip (whether or not he can redirect that grip) is beneficial in a real life scenario.


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