# Proofing a 'Stand' Command



## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Just a few ideas on some things you can do to proof a 'stand' command. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFBIHCQsMEM


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Fred Hassen said:


> Just a few ideas on some things you can do to proof a 'stand' command. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFBIHCQsMEM


Fred,

I don't know nuthin about Conformation but why do you wear a half a hat (visor) out in the sun and a regular hat inside?


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Fred,
> 
> I don't know nuthin about Conformation but why do you wear a half a hat (visor) out in the sun and a regular hat inside?


Pretend like I didn't say 'conformation' and take whatever you want from it. Pretty universal.  I'm an equal opportunity hat wearer and wear both in both places, and sometimes wear neither in both places, and sometimes wear them backwards, and sometimes sideways.


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## Kerry Foose (Feb 20, 2010)

great idea...somehow I doubt it would work for my corgis tho ROFL!


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Kerry Foose said:


> great idea...somehow I doubt it would work for my corgis tho ROFL!


I guess you'd just need a minpin to crawl under him!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

why are you "proofing" a dog that isn't ready for it? Clearly the dane isn't solid on the STAND without distraction. 

Honestly, I don't give a shit about the visor or the crocs but I simply don't understand why a trainer like you would allow for such a cluster **** scenario. In nearly every video of yours I have seen, you are doing too much too soon. Clearly, you're a high level trainer and thusly must have a reason. I would like to hear your theory behind making a dog do things it's not ready for.


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

If this is training for Breed isn't the dog supposed to present itself a bit better ? I don't hang at Conformation Shows much, but I think the tail tuck kinda takes away from the whole picture. 

Does the tail get zapped out later in training?


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I see the examples of distractions for proofing a stand in your video.

That said, I am unclear on how to actually use the training tools the handler in the vid has to correct/maintain proper stand position for the proofing excersise. Would you tell me a little about what is going on there?


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Mary Buck said:


> If this is training for Breed isn't the dog supposed to present itself a bit better ? I don't hang at Conformation Shows much, but I think the tail tuck kinda takes away from the whole picture.
> 
> Does the tail get zapped out later in training?


Hi. Yes, I asked the woman the same question when she brought the dog to us because the other 3 trained she had been to could not even get him to stand still. I do agree that in a perfect world the dog should be standing there wagging his tail a hundred miles an hour.
She said that is just the demeaner of the dog. 
He does wag it a little bit once in a while, and she says it's just him.
Maybe I will tell her to get a Basenji so the tail will be up all the time. 
we just work with what we get handed.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> why are you "proofing" a dog that isn't ready for it? Clearly the dane isn't solid on the STAND without distraction.
> 
> Honestly, I don't give a shit about the visor or the crocs but I simply don't understand why a trainer like you would allow for such a cluster **** scenario. In nearly every video of yours I have seen, you are doing too much too soon. Clearly, you're a high level trainer and thusly must have a reason. I would like to hear your theory behind making a dog do things it's not ready for.


Hi Chris....can you show me what you mean with one of your dogs? I'm sure they have been standing much longer than this dog. We can do this with the handler across the room now, but I'm not even asking that much from you.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I see the examples of distractions for proofing a stand in your video.
> 
> That said, I am unclear on how to actually use the training tools the handler in the vid has to correct/maintain proper stand position for the proofing excersise. Would you tell me a little about what is going on there?


Hey Fred , Jennifer asked you a question . You must have missed it .


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

since i could not see her hand are you using constant low level stim or multiple nicks to proof the behaviour?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Fred Hassen said:


> Hi Chris....can you show me what you mean with one of your dogs? I'm sure they have been standing much longer than this dog. We can do this with the handler across the room now, but I'm not even asking that much from you.



not a stand video but still distraction training where I am "proofing" his focus during heeling. I don't have a reason to train the stand for the show ring but you can bet it would be just as solid if I did. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoVRF5v-x1A


The dane in your video was looking around without distract and then you add distraction. Clearly the Dane wasn't ready for more


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

will fernandez said:


> since i could not see her hand are you using constant low level stim or multiple nicks to proof the behaviour?


Hi Will! I am catching a plane on my way to Denver to do a regional seminar, as you can tell from today's video. Sorry, but I have been shooting and publishing today's video as it is not easy doing one every day. I will get to your question and any others I have missed when I return in a couple days. I've gotten rid of some of the useless posters to me, so it should be much easier to weed through when I return. Good questions. Here I am on the tram heading out. www.YouTube.com/fredhassen will get to this upon returning. Thanks for watching!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> Hey Fred , Jennifer asked you a question . You must have missed it .


Fred, Jim informed you that Jen asked you a question, you must have missed both. By the way I didn’t watch your pollution video. I swore them off. I hate used car sales men


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So, the next generation of e-collars need to have beepers on them for me.

I want to hear that old school, cowboy movie, telegraph sound that you are making with the remote.


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## Niomi Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

:evil: Disgusting [-(

I'm not sure who lied to you and told you that was good "proofing", but tell them to get their sh%#t straight.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

A dog, any dog in the conformation ring ain't gonna be given a second look if it's ears are flat on it's neck like that. 
You might be able to convince the (dumb) breed judge that the object (transmitter) in the hand is a toy for baiting/rewarding but I don't believe that looks like a martingale lead around the dog's neck. 
I've taught all my "stands," show and OB competition, with motivational and marker. Never saw a need to buzz a dog for something that simple.
JMHO of course! :wink:


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

for christ sake mods just ban this guy he was asked by two or three people to explain different things he completly ignored them (once again not adding anything of significance especially when asked which is just freaking rude)or asked chris to post his own video when asked for some clarification,fred your an idiot.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

why would you need to stim to teach and proof a stand?
i really don't understand why you want you dog w/ his ears back to his neck and tail tucked like that? he looks scared and nervy.

why would you be "proofing" a stand looking like this when the dog hadn't learned a proper happy stand? Sadly i have to work at some confirmation shows on a somewhat regular basis and i can tell you they dont like this kind of shit, especially from a dane thats supposed to be " spirited, courageous, always friendly and dependable, and never timid or aggressive."


does it require more frequent billed by the hour session and/or the sale a stronger and more expensive collar?

do you make more money with this method?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Well Fred, I posted a video of me and my dog doing some proofing now I would like an explanation to my original question. What is your theory behind pushing the dog too far too fast and why do you constantly do it. Obviously you're a great trainer because your the CEO of an entire dog training organization, you teach dogs to jumps from dogs and kinda run straight so there is no question you kinda know what you are doing.

Like I mentioned before, I don't give a shit about the silly visor or the stupid crocs with a shorts and button up shirt. I just want to hear about the theory behind how you proof and what you were doing with that Dane.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I see the examples of distractions for proofing a stand in your video.
> 
> That said, I am unclear on how to actually use the training tools the handler in the vid has to correct/maintain proper stand position for the proofing excersise. Would you tell me a little about what is going on there?


Fred, I know you were busy this weekend, but you have found time to post some more videos and answer some other treads.

Wonder if you have some time for my question now?


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Fred, I know you were busy this weekend, but you have found time to post some more videos and answer some other treads.
> 
> Wonder if you have some time for my question now?


Hi Jennifer. I can see that you are obviously not familiar with how we do things. Our clients go through a training period of hands on and problem solving with their dogs, and how to use the collar in their instances. In the video that you see, this particular client has been through some training on different things to do when the dog could do a variety of adverse things, and how to fix them. Each dog would be different in some way, as would a client to some degree.

We do not hand out a one or two paragraph answer to give to them in order to tell them how to achieve their goals. If you watch the video, you can see various adjustments being constantly made by both the trainers and the handler as adjustments and counter adjustments as to what is going on. These are living breathing creatures.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Fred Hassen said:


> Hi Jennifer. I can see that you are obviously not familiar with how we do things. Our clients go through a training period of hands on and problem solving with their dogs, and how to use the collar in their instances. In the video that you see, this particular client has been through some training on different things to do when the dog could do a variety of adverse things, and how to fix them. Each dog would be different in some way, as would a client to some degree.
> 
> We do not hand out a one or two paragraph answer to give to them in order to tell them how to achieve their goals. If you watch the video, you can see various adjustments being constantly made by both the trainers and the handler as adjustments and counter adjustments as to what is going on. These are living breathing creatures.


Wow. I have to give it to you Fred. What a bull shit answer. You typed two paragraphs and never said a damn thing.

An aswer might be "one of the ways is to give low level stims as we move a limb in to position and stop when the dog is where we want it." or "we train with food and at his point the dog pretty much knows that he should not move once stacked. If he moves he gets a negative marker, a medium to high stim and he's put back in place"

See those are real answers. This is why know one here respects you. You can't stop the snake oils salesman thing for even one post.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Ben Colbert said:


> Wow. I have to give it to you Fred. What a bull shit answer. You typed two paragraphs and never said a damn thing.
> 
> An aswer might be "one of the ways is to give low level stims as we move a limb in to position and stop when the dog is where we want it." or "we train with food and at his point the dog pretty much knows that he should not move once stacked. If he moves he gets a negative marker, a medium to high stim and he's put back in place"
> 
> See those are real answers. This is why know one here respects you. You can't stop the snake oils salesman thing for even one post.


You are welcome to try either of those ways Ben. Seeing that you have the respect and can do ecollar training pretty well on the internet without knowing anything about the person or the dog that you are dealing with, then by all means I would suggest that they try this. I personally do not evaluate dogs over the internet.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Fred,

I'm no E-collar expert. I wasn't making suggestions for anyone's dog and I certainly wouldn't teach my own dogs using these methods. What I was doing is showing you what Jennifer is asking from you. We want to know what you are doing and you continually dodge the question. We're not trying to get suggestions on our own dogs, just trying to see how you do what you do.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Fred Hassen said:


> Hi Jennifer. I can see that you are obviously not familiar with how we do things. Our clients go through a training period of hands on and problem solving with their dogs, and how to use the collar in their instances. In the video that you see, this particular client has been through some training on different things to do when the dog could do a variety of adverse things, and how to fix them. Each dog would be different in some way, as would a client to some degree.
> 
> We do not hand out a one or two paragraph answer to give to them in order to tell them how to achieve their goals. If you watch the video, you can see various adjustments being constantly made by both the trainers and the handler as adjustments and counter adjustments as to what is going on. These are living breathing creatures.


Hi Jennifer, I am the King of one paragraph answers and I make no adjustments or excuses but we sometimes train on counters.

For a hundred damn dollars we can make your dog paint like Picasso.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Fred Hassen said:


> I personally do not evaluate dogs over the internet.



but you can discuss methods and theory which is all we really want. 

Jennifer isn't the kind of person that needs an evaluation but is the kind of person that likes to learn just in case she needs to employ other methods in her training regime


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Hi Jennifer, I am the King of one paragraph answers and I make no adjustments or excuses but we sometimes train on counters.



Gerry, you wouldn't be able to start and stop that dog and move him around on those boundaries. You were comfortable with the 'sit' next to you, as to be expected. Thus, you wouldn't be able to transfer that into all kinds of advanced stuff outside of patterns. Starting, stopping, back and forth etc, etc. The jokes about the soccer field were good, but you were fortunate they weren't closer, and that you wouldn't have had to drop that line, or direct him on that tables while you back up and are stationary. I know what I'm looking at, as this is my life. I'm thankful for your video, cause it supplies me with more insight. I learn a lot by watching. How old is that dog, and how long have you had him/her?


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Fred Hassen said:


> I personally do not evaluate dogs over the internet.



Forgive me if I'm wrong, but no one asked you to evaluate any dogs over the internet. We asked what you had done in this video to work with a dog we ASSumed you had already evaluated in person since you are seen in said video working with said dog.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Fred Hassen said:


> Gerry, you wouldn't be able to start and stop that dog and move him around on those boundaries. You were comfortable with the 'sit' next to you, as to be expected. Thus, you wouldn't be able to transfer that into all kinds of advanced stuff outside of patterns. Starting, stopping, back and forth etc, etc. The jokes about the soccer field were good, but you were fortunate they weren't closer, and that you wouldn't have had to drop that line, or direct him on that tables while you back up and are stationary. I know what I'm looking at, as this is my life. I'm thankful for your video, cause it supplies me with more insight. I learn a lot by watching. How old is that dog, and how long have you had him/her?


I don't answer questions over the internet, you need to come to one of my seminars and don't forget to bring your dog.

Fred, have you watched my dog falling out of tree training vid ?? I think it would help expand your buisness. I could wholesale the rights to you.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Forgive me if I'm wrong, but no one asked you to evaluate any dogs over the internet. We asked what you had done in this video to work with a dog we ASSumed you had already evaluated in person since you are seen in said video working with said dog.


Jackie, you had some pretty strong statements about us not able to do much when our equipment comes off cause we are a bunch of know-nothing pet dog trainers. We like that position, we have nothing to lose against a very multi-talented sport dog person like yourself. I'm sorry if I only started you with a few sporting accomplishments, as I have many more by me and our trainers if you need me to dig a little. I kind of like the disrespect you offer, cause I know I'm about to get hit with a boatload of stuff on your end that is going to totally back up your uppity attitude. Looks like Chris bowed out early, without even a CGC. 

Look kids, I never brought this playing field stuff up, but of course a training system wouldn't work unless you could get out there on the field without equipment on. You are good at name calling, so maybe we just need to bring it down quite a few notches to make all your 'on high' attitudes easily to obtain. How about we just start with as easy as it gets........ a simple CGC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJphD4clVCU No equipment on there either, and verifiable.
This is an older video and we went 21 for 21 on the next round as well. Lowering the bar for ya, but don't quit on me now as you came into the room all yelling and screaming. What do ya got? I'm seated and ready for the onslaught cause that's the way you wanted to judge the field and play the game..........let's play.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I don't answer questions over the internet, you need to come to one of my seminars and don't forget to bring your dog.
> 
> Fred, have you watched my dog falling out of tree training vid ?? I think it would help expand your buisness. I could wholesale the rights to you.


Nope, seen enough. Don't watch vids that I can't learn anything a zillion times, and I'm not a whiner.


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

How long is this ping pong/dodge the question going to go on, Fred??? Is it that you just don't want anyone to know your training ' secrets' ? Why can't you just answer the question that has been asked of you repeatedly?! We would all like to know how you produce the results that you posted on video. It''s really not that difficult of a question. How about the answer.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Fred Hassen said:


> Nope, seen enough. Don't watch vids that I can't learn anything a zillion times, and I'm not a whiner.


Then answer me..why do you keep posting your useless videos here ? You think anybody learns anything from those videos ? I know the economy is tough, but can't you find work on QVC or something similar ??


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

BTW...I thought someone had said the "Fred was gone' ??!!!! I guess not.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Fred Hassen said:


> Jackie, you had some pretty strong statements about us not able to do much when our equipment comes off.


No I didn't, but thanks for the compliments, my ego needed that. I have some pretty strong statements about you not able to do much BEFORE the equipment goes ON. Maybe now it's clear enough for you to understand? Don't know if I could make it clearer, but I can try again if you still can't comprehend my simple questions.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Unless you have a severe learning disability, I don't think this guy has anything to offer.

Think about it...he critiqued my video :lol:


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Unless you have a severe learning disability, I don't think this guy has anything to offer.
> 
> Think about it...he critiqued my video :lol:



I'd like to think I don't. These past couple pages have given me quite a few laughs. #-oGood think I don't take much personally. ;-)


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Then answer me..why do you keep posting your useless videos here ? You think anybody learns anything from those videos ? I know the economy is tough, but can't you find work on QVC or something similar ??


You are either learning something, or insane to keep watching them.
Or maybe you just like the name calling. It can only be 1 of the 3.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Fred Hassen said:


> You are either learning something, or insane to keep watching them.
> Or maybe you just like the name calling. It can only be 1 of the 3.


I've only watched a few Fred, that's all I needed. 

I agree a person would have to be insane to watch them all. Can I ask why you choose to post so many videos ?? 

Can you tell me what you charge for your training ?? any basic course will do.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Fred Hassen said:


> Looks like Chris bowed out early, without even a CGC.
> 
> ..........let's play.



I bowed out? YOU bowed out to my challenge. Anywhere anytime Fred. Put your money where you mouth is $1000.

Let's play for real Fred.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Can you tell me what you charge for your training ??


Bet he tells you in one sentence or less.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I've only watched a few Fred, that's all I needed.
> 
> I agree a person would have to be insane to watch them all. Can I ask why you choose to post so many videos ??
> 
> Can you tell me what you charge for your training ?? any basic course will do.


Sure, got a 4 day FREE seminar listed that will have the exact dates on the events page soon. I don't personally train for the public besides that any longer. The other SMS' you would have to ask individually, as I don't set their price and you were asking about me.
I know you don't care, and I know you ain't coming........so what's your point? What do you charge? We'll be training a green dog for a whole day at the Police K9cop magazine event also, but I'm not charging for that also. You ain't gonna come to that either. Again, what's your point?


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Fred Hassen said:


> Sure, got a 4 day FREE seminar listed that will have the exact dates on the events page soon. I don't personally train for the public besides that any longer. The other SMS' you would have to ask individually, as I don't set their price and you were asking about me.
> I know you don't care, and I know you ain't coming........so what's your point? What do you charge? We'll be training a green dog for a whole day at the Police K9cop magazine event also, but I'm not charging for that also. You ain't gonna come to that either. Again, what's your point?


My point is you should answer the questions people ask of you about your training instead of replying to me.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> My point is you should answer the questions people ask of you about your training ...




That's a pretty sound point, Gerry, IMHO.

Seems that many folks on the board have made the same request.



Chris Michalek said:


> .... you can discuss methods and theory which is all we really want. ....


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