# hip dysplasia



## Elizabeth Digmann (Jan 28, 2009)

i have a pet gsd mix shes 15 months old and i just found out she has a bad case of hip dysplasia, i can not afford to have her hips replaced. i got the dog to go hiking with me and now she can no longer do that. i am trying to get into SAR and and looking into training a dog for that! so the decision i have to make is 1) do i keep the dog, she cant come hiking with me so she would be left at home alone more often and if i get a high drive dog to train for SAR she would be unable to be apart of that or 2) do i try to find someone to give her to, someone who can afford the meds shes going to need and possibly the hip replacements? I just want to do what is best for the dog.
i know this is a decision that i have to make but i need some 3rd party advice!

Thanks for any advice or opinions!


and sorry if this is hard to understand!! i really suck at stuff like this!!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I seldom give advice but will ask you a question do you think your going to find someone who will take your crippled dog and spend thousands of dollars to repair it


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I have a rescue Rott with severe HD. We give her Cosimin tabs that I buy at Costco. There is a huge difference between when she has pills and when she doesn't. 

She is still stiff after running but she runs where before she didn't.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I have a "retired" SAR dog with SEVERE HD - we got the diagnosis about the time we were ready to certify. I kept her, I now have a 2nd dog I bought as a young adult [with hip clearances etc hint hint] that is my working dog. She enjoys the company of my other dog and is quite happy with her life as a pet. 

Only you can answer that. I figure I have my dog and I am obliged to give her the best life I can. In her case, her hips are horrid but she does not seem to know it and does great - even three years after diagnosis. If she gets to the point of being in constant pain and not enjoying life, then we would probably euthanize. 

Have you seen a veterinary orthopedist? How bad is it to the dog? I would not recommend buying your SAR prospect until you are established on a team. If you try it and decide it is not for you the high drive dog may be more than you bargained for.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I seldom give advice but will ask you a question do you think your going to find someone who will take your crippled dog and spend thousands of dollars to repair it


She was just wondering and asking for advice.....the dog is not crippled and she gets along well and does not seem too affected....yet....she is happy and vibrant with Elizabeth so I think exploring her options is a good thing. 

She is training with our team, and she knows that she has some decisions to make as far as getting a SAR dog, which is why she is learning to victim first. 

Elizabeth, I will send you some information via email....


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

We have had great success so far with keeping my female lean, glucosamine/MSM, and fish oil. She rarely needs a deramaxx. She still can jump on the sofa but not in the back of the truck - and loves to run albiet with a bunny hop. 

If the dog is not showing signs and loving life and you can keep her as a pet, I would consider it. I would not consider working her - I did continue doing water training with my female but immediately retired her from wilderness so I could continue to learn water, but as soon as I got my male up and running on water, he became the only working dog.


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## Elizabeth Digmann (Jan 28, 2009)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I now have a 2nd dog I bought as a young adult [with hip clearances etc hint hint]
> 
> I know I know!! i should have checked the dog out more before i got her](*,) i think i did everything your NOT suppose to do when buying a dog!! it was stupid but now i know and i wont make the same mistake twice!! ( i hope )
> Carol has been helping me get started with SAR! I've still got a LOT to learn before getting another pup!!
> ...


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## Meena Moitra (Jul 11, 2008)

Elizabeth, I have no experience w/what you are facing. I can only offeer an outside voice. Keep things manageable for all parties concerned. Your bank account, available hours in the day, the dog's health and quality of life as well as your own and other in your family.
I think I might put some effort into trying to find a new home for the pooch. There may be an older person out there who would love to have the dog, and the dysplasia may be maintained to fit such a household so both would be cared for.
I would wait to get another dog till this problem is resolved.


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## Meena Moitra (Jul 11, 2008)

Elizabeth, I have no experience w/what you are facing. I can only offer an outside voice. Keep things manageable for all parties concerned. Your bank account, available hours in the day, the dog's health and quality of life as well as your own and other in your family.
I think I might put some effort into trying to find a new home for the pooch. There may be an older person out there who would love to have the dog, and the dysplasia may be maintained to fit such a household so both would be cared for.
I would wait to get another dog till this problem is resolved.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I seldom give advice but will ask you a question do you think your going to find someone who will take your crippled dog and spend thousands of dollars to repair it


Yes Mike, in Vino Veritas.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

To put it bluntly, you can't expect anything more from a new owner than you would be prepared to do for the dog yourself. There are methods, there is help - there are aims that have to be forgotten ...........

On the other hand there's a dog that needs help. Who gives it to him??


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey Elizabeth

Not sure how helpful it may be, but I'll share my experience with HD. My male LabX was diagnosed shortly after I got him at 7 months old with severe HD. The vet rated his hips as 'dreadful'. I thought I'd be looking at surgery for sure. 

I did a consult at OVC (Ontario Veterinary College), the big guns in this area. I was told that it would get worse before it got better as the bones in his hip sockets microfractured and then healed. For me it was worth the drive and the expense to have a better picture of what was going on with my dog and what my options were.

Is there an ortho specialist in your area that you can consult with? It may be helpful to know what the options are for your dog. 

Six years later, I still haven't done anything other than keep him _very_ lean, give glucosamine, chondroiten and/or msm supplements and let him exercise at his own pace. He carries himself on his front end, can't jump, but copes just fine. He will never be anything but a pet, but that hasn't stopped me from having a working dog, too. Part of the reason for choosing a purebred from a working lines breeder was in hopes of avoiding hip issues.

There is a yahoo group called orthodogs. Tons of knowlege and advice there, too.


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## Elizabeth Digmann (Jan 28, 2009)

Meena Moitra said:


> I think I might put some effort into trying to find a new home for the pooch. There may be an older person out there who would love to have the dog, and the dysplasia may be maintained to fit such a household so both would be cared for.
> I would wait to get another dog till this problem is resolved.


 
that is what i was thinking, she would be a good pet for an elderly person, she has her moments but for the most part shes a calm lazy little thing! she has some fear/aggression problems with other dogs and people she dose not know ( once she gets to know the person shes fine), so that would make it a bit harder to find her a home. maybe i should start looking around for someone willing to take her:-( 


And I'm defiantly not going to get another dog till i figure out what to do with the one i have#-o

thanks for the help!



Elizabeth D


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Ekizabeth, I am not going to offer any advie either but, I will give you a suggestion. Do yourself a favor and read this article before you spend a bunch on stuff rom the vets, glucosamine, chondroitan and such. This stuff is $10 buck for a 5 mo supply. I am walking because I take it. I hyave friends that are back on their horse because they now take it for their knees. It works, it is cheap.
http://workingdogs.com/doc0039.htm


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Boy Don, that was not my experience and after a long discussion with the ortho vet, don't think I will ever megadose a puppy on ester C because if its impact on bone metabolism. FWIW, my dysplastic dog - ltter ZW 78, and was very carefully fed on Raw diet during her growth years.

You can buy horse formulations of glucosamine/MSM and cut it down for the dog. 

I think you are going to have a hard time outplacing a dysplastic mutt. I had a lady offer [spontaneously] to take my female who is a striking little working lines GSD, but I knew she would overfeed her and not excercise her so I decided I could not do that to her.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

You have a point Nancy. So wait a few mo. until the bones are set, or don't megadose, just give the 1000 mg a day and forget the 2000 mg for faster effect. It has been a long time since I read the article. How many dogs did they give it to that started moving around like young dogs again. I couldn't stand on my feet without intense pain because I dammaged the instep of both feet when the rungs on a wood ladder brock when I was 7 or 8 rungs up. Broke every rung on the way down. A dog guy sent me this article and I figured I had nothing to lose and was hiking around the mountains in a month.
Just for a touch of reality, Nanct mentioned megadosing on Ester C with pups. Have any of you listened to the pharmcetical ads on TV. Advair being one of them. Advair does a better job of helping asthma but the ingrdience are responsible for athsma related deaths. So, why would someone take it? That is not the only one that mentions death as one of the side effects.


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## Meena Moitra (Jul 11, 2008)

A while ago lots of praise was heaped on Sylvia Hammerstrom of Skansen Kennels on another board. Sylvia is a huge proponent of vitamin C for dogs, especially in its usefulness in dealing with CHD. Both treating and avoiding in her program.
Not that it would work in Elizabeth's case but for interested parties, check it out:
www.skansen.com and go to the nutrition tab.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Elizabeth Digmann said:


> that is what i was thinking, she would be a good pet for an elderly person, she has her moments but for the most part shes a calm lazy little thing! she has some fear/aggression problems with other dogs and people she dose not know


Personally, based on the HD and above statement I would not consider this dog a candidate for an elderly person. You have to consider the financial impact and limited income with the cost of supplements as the disease progresses to keep the dog comfortable. The fact that there may be children or caregivers that might frequent an elderly persons home and that the dog has fear/aggression problems would put the dog and visitors in a bad situation. Another problem we see with many elderly owners is over feeding. Most dysplastic dogs benefit by staying lean and active to maintain muscle tone and keep ligaments strong to support the hips (or lack thereof) as best possible. 

We have two very dysplastic GSD's and a couple Aussies with severe Spondylosis. All have been on Joint Strong http://www.showandsport.com/joint_strong.htm and show no signs of pain and are pretty darn mobile. Our customers have also used the Joint Strong successfully for Panosteoitis, post surgical inflammation, fractures on the mend and Spondylosis. Likewise we have been using this instead of the veterinary preferred meds like Metacam or Rimadyl. Much safer and all-natural =D>


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Meena Moitra said:


> A while ago lots of praise was heaped on Sylvia Hammerstrom of Skansen Kennels on another board. Sylvia is a huge proponent of vitamin C for dogs, especially in its usefulness in dealing with CHD. Both treating and avoiding in her program.
> Not that it would work in Elizabeth's case but for interested parties, check it out:
> www.skansen.com and go to the nutrition tab.


¨
I had a peep at her web site but must honestly ask, why doesn't she eat a varied, vitamin rich diet?

As for Vitamin C for canines working wonders - I have to wonder??'


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Terri, the joint strong is not that different than the actiflex 4000 [horse formula] that I use. Certainly another product to analyze [I have to look at your formulation]. A lot of folks also like Glycoflex III.

The regular vet was all doom and gloom. The orthopedic vet said many dogs with hips as bad as my female's [and it was bilateral with joint heads mushroomed and sockets very flanged] go all their life with no apparent problems. He felt hip replacement was a last ditch resort and did not recommend it.

From the canine PT, the main thing I got was some easy range of motion, and hill walking excercises. She can still [at 6] go for walks in the woods, I just don't let her go crashing over tree trunks and up and down steep creek banks, not do I let her jump in and out of the truck though she really wants to. We do some things they don't recommend, like chasing balls, but I would rather her enjoy the time she has, even if that makes it shorter in quantity. You can do the underwater treadmill but time and cost was prohibitive for us to do that. The PT did say walking in chest high water was better than swimming. He did not even see issues with her working on the boat, but I saw that she could not effectively hang off the edge [back legs on platform, front half of body cantilevered over the bow] like most do to get to the water. I have also observed that cold AND wet seem to be the conditions that impact her the most.

It is tough. I really understand now why folks get young adults with health, hip, and back screenings for working. Not the cheapest way to go but more cost effective in the long run. My first prospect had nerve issues and the second had the hip issue. Three times a charm but, like I said thorough evaluation on all fronts before I got him.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

I can't offer advice on what another person should do, especially not knowing the person, exact situation, dog, etc. etc. I do know, however, what I would probably do. If I were in your situation, I know I would have already bonded with the dog. I think I'd keep it as a pet and get a second dog for SAR work. I'd also keep my eyes open for the right home, just in case something came up. If the dog was very laid back and low energy, I'd think about training it to become a therapy dog. That way I could keep the dog mentally stimulated in training and provide a wonderful service to others.

The above scenario, of course, assumes that a person is in a situation to have two dogs, can afford two dogs, and has the time, dedication, and interest in working with both of them.

Just curious... How successful are the hip replacement surgeries? How much do they typically cost? I don't have any experience in this area.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I know hip replacement is several thousand dollars per hip, has a long recovery, and when done on a young dog, don't always last the life of the dog. There are other options based on age and size that are much less expensive.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

You don't say how bad the HD is.

Our Fila Brasileiro, 55 kilos, was diagnosed with middling (D) when he was 4 yrs. old - "C" was often allowed to be bred from in some breeds. He had D in both hips, which although fairly severe, in my mind is better than C in one and D in the other.

As he had very good muscles it didn't seem to bother him a lot until he got a older. Our vet said that the HD X-Ray is one thing but each dog tells a different story. Regular, but definitely not extreme exercise can keep up the muscle strength and activities such as tracking or square searching, obedience exercises without jumping can provide mental exercise.

I used to give mine Devil's Claw in either plant or homeopathic form which I felt helped. He lived to be 14,5. I live by the principle that if I can't help the dog, I have it put to sleep - if not, I do all I can to make sure he has a liveable life.


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## Melanie Moore (May 21, 2008)

Erica Boling said:


> Just curious... How successful are the hip replacement surgeries? How much do they typically cost? I don't have any experience in this area.


There are 3 surgeries that they offer for dogs with dysplastic hips: TPO, THR, and FHO.

TPO - Triple Pelvic Osteotomy - THe surgeon cuts the pelvis in three places and adjusts how the head of the femur sits in the socket of the hip joint. It must be done before any signs of arthritis begin to show in the joint, meaning that it must be done at a young age, usually less than a year. Results tend to be pretty good. Cost in Northern VA (outside DC) ~$3500 per hip.

THR - Total Hip Replacement - Much like what is done for humans. Replace femoral head of femur with a prosthetic. Most invasive surgery. Limited places that perform the procedure. Cost in No. VA ~$6000 per hip. Not as good prognosis as TPO, but if the dog is older, that is not always a choice. 

FHO - Femeral head ostectomy - Surgeon removes the head of the femur. Soft tissue is responsibe for stabilizing the joint, no longer bone on bone contact. PT is a must for recovery, usually done on smaller dogs, although sucessful on larger dogs, not often recommended unless very severe and THR is not an option. Cost in No. VA ~$1500-$2000 per hip.

For the record, I had a TPO done on my working line shepherd and she is able to compete in SchH. She had one hip with pretty bad dysplasia. After healing she has shown almost no signs of issues with that hip. I currently do not have her on any supplements, but I swim her in the summer. It has been ~2yrs since surgery and the joint is still free of dejeneration and pain.


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## Elizabeth Digmann (Jan 28, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> You don't say how bad the HD is.
> 
> 
> the vet said "its bad. its really bad". she said that the right side is almost dislocated, the left wasn't quite that bad. she said the best option would be to have the right hip replaced.
> ...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I hate to be a Job's Comforter but if your vet says the one hip is really bad and needs a replacement, Glucosamines, in my opnion, isn't the answer - it's just a reliever at the best.

I have read quite a lot about HD and listened to vet's opinions. From what I understand, it is not the actual HD that causes pain but the arthrose that can set in. Certain remedies can alleviate the pain but I cannot see how Glucosamine can "cure" a very bad HD. 

Maybe Maren could help out on this.

A vet should be able to tell you what degree of HD is evident. The experts who interpret the X-Rays should only slightly differ from a good vet's opinion.

"Bad, really bad" is not really something to go on and, whether you keep the dog yourself or give it away, you should know the bare facts.

Some dogs live to be old with HD. They are happy to do tracking and take frequent short walks. No extremes such as over hill and dale for hours. 

Some are energetic and such an enforcement as above will not satisfy them so one has to think of the dog's quality of life in the first place.

Think it over for yourself and for a new owner, if need be.

Sorry to be such a Gremlin:sad:


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## Deb Randolph (Mar 4, 2008)

Hey Elizabeth, Sorry about the news on the HD. 
Not knowing you and your situation I can't give advice but I can offer my experience: 
I purchased Fee when she was 8 weeks old as a Schutzhund prospect. At 2 years old I had her hips xrayed never expecting to see hips that were mod/severe bilat dysplastic. This dog up until that day was training for the sport, swimming, hiking, with me snowshoeing and not showing any discomfort at all. I decided that hip replacements weren't an option and no way would I consider euthanizing her as long as she was not in pain and had a good quality of life. I did retire her from SchH but felt that our best option was to try to keep the muscles strong but not over do it and keep her lean. 
Fee is now 8 1/2 years old. She has all the free exercise she wants, swims, takes walks, but isn't allowed to jump (I have a ramp for her to get into the pick-up). The only medication she is on is MSM/Glucosamine. Who knows if it is helping but it certainly isn't hurting so she gets it twice a day. I know that dreaded day is coming but we will cross that bridge when it's time and enjoy what we have until then. 
Good luck in your decision. 
Deb
Fee vom Haus Kaiser
Brit v Haus auf dem Hugel
& my new dynamo Enja vom Teichblick


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi:

You might investigate Adequan injections. You do a series of 8 and then maintenance. I've heard rave reviews with performance dogs that were severe. After the initial series, you do sorta as needed maintenance injections. Also, the BARF crowd believes that a raw diet helps. My guys are on Ester C and Vit E throughout their lives. For joint supplements, I use the horse formulations. They are super concentrated--so alot more foryour money. Look for: Ester C, MSM, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Yucca; Bromelain; Maganese; etc. I've had one dysplastic dog in my adult life time. Actually she was dysplastic in all four extremities. She was my first herding dog and totally asymptomatic until Age 5. She was diagnosed at 2 and the vet believed that continuing herding would improve her musculature [it did]. She was comfortable and functional around the house which is two stories and she had no problems. She was only high drive around livestock so perfectly content to just hang out around the house; until she realized I was going to work stock with one of the younger dogs. I was able to keep her comfy though, but I spent a lot in supplements. I don't know who you could place a dog of that severity which would only get worse. Best I could do is to keep her as a pet and just get another pooch for SAR. 

Terrasita


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