# malinois trailing



## Rebecca Kuder (Aug 3, 2013)

Ok, I have a malinois who is about 17 months old, ad have been working on trailing with her. I have had issues getting her started, so we start doing the footstep hotdog method and that got her interested enough to be able to cut out the hotdogs. Now she has regressed some and not starting the trail very well. No one around here has worked a malinois for trailing and they say I should just work her on cadaver because that's a malinois a great for. I wouldn't mind doing cadaver but I really love trailing and want to build a good foundation in trailing before we try cadaver. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

What do you mean by not starting the trail well? Is she unwilling? Uninterested? Cant find it? 

What kind of terrain are you working on? How long has she been training? How long are the tracks? Age of tracks? 

Whats happening at the end? Is there a person there or just something for her to play with or eat?

Not all dogs can be a trailing dog. She may have the drive for SAR, but that doesnt mean she has the desire for what trailing involves. 

Can you post a video?

What kind of dog are the people you work with used to training? While there are differences between types of dogs, they arent exactly polar opposites


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

What Mel said,

Plus.....

Trailing is not tracking. The dog is following odor which may or may not be where the person walked. So the hotdogs may be counter productive. Most trailing dogs work at a faster pace and with a higher head then what the FST (Foot Step Tracking) folks like. 

Where are you getting the training for this? Books? Trial and Error? A local sport dog club? Airscent SAR team?

Also there are peaks and valleys with training dogs. Occasionally, there are regressions and you have to figure out if it's a natural event or something you have artificially created.

On a personal note: I have an issue with putting food out on tracks for sar dogs. Partly because when you're doing work on city streets you don't want your dog thinking it gets to scarf up any food it finds along the way because with you working 15-30ft behind the dog, they can suck it up faster than you can stop them.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what is the motivation for the dog > how are you training?


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

Have you tried the runaway exercise with her. Have someone else hold her and let her observe you run into the woods. Take her out of sight for a moment then return and let her search.


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## Rebecca Kuder (Aug 3, 2013)

Ok, I am working with my local sar team which consists of shepherds, and one lab. At the start she just doesn't take the track consistently and just walks around. When we started the hotdogsit was to get her to realize there was middle the the tracks and not just the end reward. She is a food reward with a person at the end of the track. I dont have any video of her working.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I really wish you would answer a few more of Mel’s questions. As most will tell you it’s a bit hard to give helpful advice when the people who would like to help you don’t know what you are doing, have done, or tried. None of the questions are meant to bash your team or the people you are working with but being vague isn’t helping you out either. 

I will say that visual runaways have a place but when you want to the dog to stop relying on prey and move to hunt you have to make the end reward worth the hard work. A lot of people rush the finish and give a limited, hurried reward because they want to discuss what the dog did right (or wrong) and move on to work the next dog. You have got to make it worth it. Perhaps you moved the trail variables too much. Length, time, difficulty, age, blind starts, determining direction of travel, making the dog move to slow, making the dog move to fast, etc. Once the dog makes the determination that this work is no fun, it’s very hard to get them motivated to work reliably. As Mel said, not all dogs are motivated to trail. But is the dog not motivated because they lack the capacity or do they lack the motivation because of something you’ve done? That’s a tough call and that’s why Mel posted a laundry list of questions. 

A video would sure be a help. I worked with one officer who said his dog wandered all over the beginning. But when I watch, what I saw was a dog searching for the start of the track and he eventually locked on and tracked really well. Once this was pointed out to the officer, he finally saw what was happening (the third party perspective) and realized the dog was not just farting around at the beginning but was actually working. If you are not starting at the beginning of the trail but beginning off to one side and walking your dog up to or across the start then this may have started this wandering behavior you are seeing. I don’t know if this is accurate but just something to think about.

I’m going to offer this advice however this is just a general response and not very in-depth due to the lack of info.

I would back it up a bit and add a mix of a visual start with nose work. The person quickly turns out of sight so the dog gets a visual start but then must rely on his nose to get to the end. The distances do not have to be great. At this point, don’t make the dog search out the beginning. Start the dog at the PLS, facing the correct direction. The runner greets the dog and maybe plays with him a bit. Even though you will still use a scent article, the dog will already have a nose full of the person’s scent. Person walks off and soon turns off from the dog’s sight by turning behind a bldg’s corner or brush. Maybe a short distance with a left or right turn. Dog gets an easy start due to the visual and then most use his nose. I would use the same runner through several training sessions if you can. If you can’t, do not switch runners in the middle of a training session. The goal of these exercises is to get the dog motivated to start a trail (which you say is now an issue) with a great finish. If the dog begins to get good starts then wean off the visual runaway but keep the same person’s scent. Watch how many trails you do per session. I would recommend no more than 3 at a time. Also if you get one fantastic run, consider stopping on this high note instead of trying to get just one more run. Because if that run isn’t very good then you are forced to try another run or must end on a bad note.


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Sarah already mentioned it but it is worth repeating again. Huge reward at end of trail.  Not necessarily a huge amount of food, but make sure it's a party at the end. And the food reward needs to be the thing the dog goes bonkers over, and only use it at the end of a trail. Lots and lots of praise time. Several minutes if possible. If the dog will play with a toy, bring that too. If the end of the trail is ho hum the rest will quickly follow suit. And vice versa usually.

I dont remember how old your dog is, or what she used to do. 

I've never trained a mal to trail, altho I have watched several work. Didnt see them as being a lot diff then other dogs as far as training schematic. Mostly differences I've seen is that hounds are more instinctive in putting their nose to the ground. 

I start my dogs the way Sarah described, emphasizing the big ending, till the dog understands what the game is about. Then phase out the visual. My new dog was off visual by the 4th day. My female was a slow learner, took a few weeks before she figured out what it was all about. Altho she was just 3 months when I started her. So make sure you are taking your time in moving forward. Foundation work is key.

If you can get someone to video you that would be most helpful. As Sarah said, it may just be a matter of perspective.


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