# How many of you think you are??????



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

How many folks think they are PSD or MWD trainers because you train sport dogs? How many of you really are thinking that your breeders of working dogs for police or MWD procurements / usages ? Big question is how many do you really think your sport titled dog is a real life applicant ( not directed at the SAR folks ) for street or war usages because they bite a sleeve or suit ?

These are things that I have been sitting back and reading and seeing on websites wheter being personal or forums in conversation and has really got me wondering what the **** is going on in peoples heads, I have been talking with some of the folks from this forum behind the scenes and I am glad to know that I am not the only one shaking and scratching my head asking themselves are these people for real.

*** Not meant to start arguments or raise hair on peoples necks, just looking for some insight on what people are seeing or thinking about *** , please dont call out peoples websites or name folks, just hoping for some eye openers, if you want to call yourselfs out than I'm sure the mods won't have a problem with that being that itself inflicted.

One of the reasons for this post is because theres another thread on here for a department thats trying to do right and raise funds for the betterment of themselves and their dogs and you have miscellaneous people making claims and put there nose and mouths where they have no right being. Its ridcuolous because a individual doing this says the wrong thing or does the wrong thing or his dogs is out of control and cause accidents, there going to see this individual with a department function and could POSSIBLY ASSUME that he is attached or some how part of this unit when hes not and make the whole bunch look bad.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> How many folks think they are PSD or MWD trainers because you train sport dogs? How many of you really are thinking that your breeders of working dogs for police or MWD procurements / usages ? Big question is how many do you really think your sport titled dog is a real life applicant ( not directed at the SAR folks ) for street or war usages because they bite a sleeve or suit ?
> 
> These are things that I have been sitting back and reading and seeing on websites wheter being personal or forums in conversation and has really got me wondering what the **** is going on in peoples heads, I have been talking with some of the folks from this forum behind the scenes and I am glad to know that I am not the only one shaking and scratching my head asking themselves are these people for real.
> 
> *** Not meant to start arguments or raise hair on peoples necks, just looking for some insight on what people are seeing or thinking about *** , please dont call out peoples websites or name folks, just hoping for some eye openers, if you want to call yourselfs out than I'm sure the mods won't have a problem with that being that itself inflicted.


What would you consider yourself?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

it's automatically argumentative. The reason is; you can't compare apples to oranges. It's a totally different mindset working v. sport. The mind set working a dog in a war zone is completey different that working a PSD. Yes, I've done both. Are there sport dogs that could be used in PSD or MWD, yes of course. One of the most noticible differences between MWD/PSD trainers and sport is; when reading a thread about sport dogs, it invariably starts off with what line, the breed, who bred the dog and what it's ancestors have done. In MWD/PSD, more often than not, we don't know, don't particularly care and are concerned only if the particular dog we are training is capable. Besides physical condition, capability os the only selection criteria. While we may often be the captured audience of the vendor, even they know it's the potential of the dog more than the breeding, breed and country of origin.

DFrost


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> What would you consider yourself?


Somebody thats been around the block a few times and knows his limits to avoid conflict with the public or a agency and thats the point I am trying to make, is that there are plenty out there that are saying or claiming way to much and are going to get themselves or somebody else hurt sooner or later.

I don't cross the line with customers or agencies if I am unsure and make some shit up just to sound even more stupid then when I first open my mouth in the first place.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

David Frost said:


> it's automatically argumentative. The reason is; you can't compare apples to oranges. It's a totally different mindset working v. sport. The mind set working a dog in a war zone is completey different that working a PSD. Yes, I've done both. Are there sport dogs that could be used in PSD or MWD, yes of course. One of the most noticible differences between MWD/PSD trainers and sport is; when reading a thread about sport dogs, it invariably starts off with what line, the breed, who bred the dog and what it's ancestors have done. In MWD/PSD, more often than not, we don't know, don't particularly care and are concerned only if the particular dog we are training is capable. Besides physical condition, capability os the only selection criteria. While we may often be the captured audience of the vendor, even they know it's the potential of the dog more than the breeding, breed and country of origin.
> 
> DFrost


Oh I know that its apples and oranges but how many others really do understand that, yea I know that there is dogs that can do it but bot all and these are all things that made to be clear. 

Theres a few in my state that I have been getting phone calls from over the last couple of months one we got to see his supposed dogs and they were not PSD nor was he a handler and here he is breeding the **** out of dogs and saying they are PSD pups and lying to schools and doing searches when he can barely hold onto his own dog in bitework. Then two others that claim to be police and anothe claiming PSD or MWD one has been doing sport for a couple of years and the other is a couple of months old into dogs period.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Keely, if you had about 3 more neurons firing in that dark abyss between your ears, you'd probably be dangerous.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Sorry if it gets argumentative mods, you can lock it if you like, I think enough has already been said between me, Jody and David to open they eyes of alot of readers and some posters on the forum.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Drew Peirce said:


> Keely, if you had about 3 more neurons firing in that dark abyss between your ears, you'd probably be dangerous.


Didn't you mean neutrons ?


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Drew Peirce said:


> Keely, if you had about 3 more neurons firing in that dark abyss between your ears, you'd probably be dangerous.


Yea well your not the first to tell me I a few shots shy of being close to normal, I try to stay of the ledge of being dangerous so I guess I will deny looking for those 3 more neurons:mrgreen:


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> Didn't you mean neutrons ?


Those too;-)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Are you one of those people that put those people on a pedestal ?

I am just curious, as it seems you are pretty fired up. LOL


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Are you one of those people that put those people on a pedestal ?
> 
> I am just curious, as it seems you are pretty fired up. LOL


No actually not bias towards sport folks or police or military folks or what ever other disciplines people get into with there dogs although I do have a special little hatred for sieger dogs / akc show people AH HAHA. No honestly I am cool runnings with most dog people in most disciplines and think its cool that they are actually doing something with there dogs. 

And yea it fires me up for people to present something thats fictional and try to make it fact:twisted::roll:](*,)


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> And yea it fires me up for people to present something thats fictional and try to make it fact:twisted::roll:](*,)


Maybe a few more neutrons and a few less neurons would help out .


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> Maybe a few more neutrons and a few less neurons would help out .


Or maybe some of those things they call protons or protrons or something like that:-k would work too.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Folks no reason to send PM's and Emails ( no names mentioned ) that you don't think you are what the post is about, this post was put together to just look into the minds of some and not others for nothing else but shits and giggles or for some that want to be argumentative I guess they feel the need to be. everybody that has posted I think gets the drift and knows its not pointed at them but just a general inquiry. So far I think David has answered best so far.


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## John-Ashley Hill (Jan 5, 2011)

If a dept. doesn't do their homework and due dilligence before purchasing a dog from a breeder/kennel then they are getting out of the deal what they put into it. There are always going to be those that claim that they cand do alot more than they can actually deliver and not just in the dog world. As far as the sprot dogs go, the fact that they are sport dogs definetly doesn't mean they can't be awesome working dogs. There are tons of IPO, Schutzhund, and KNPV dogs at the kennel where we purchase our dogs and everyone of them that I have seen is a great working dog, my KNPV Mal X included. But there are definelty people out there that can't or don't differentiate between a dog that is a good sport dog but doesnt have it in them to be a PSD/MWD and definelty enough people to ignorant or lazy to do some research to find out themselves.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

John-Ashley Hill said:


> If a dept. doesn't do their homework and due dilligence before purchasing a dog from a breeder/kennel then they are getting out of the deal what they put into it. There are always going to be those that claim that they cand do alot more than they can actually deliver and not just in the dog world. As far as the sprot dogs go, the fact that they are sport dogs definetly doesn't mean they can't be awesome working dogs. There are tons of IPO, Schutzhund, and KNPV dogs at the kennel where we purchase our dogs and everyone of them that I have seen is a great working dog, my KNPV Mal X included. But there are definelty people out there that can't or don't differentiate between a dog that is a good sport dog but doesnt have it in them to be a PSD/MWD and definelty enough people to ignorant or lazy to do some research to find out themselves.


Agree and well put I think, cheers. Yea although some departments don't know any better and are either new and or not made up of alot of experience, those are the ones I feel bad for that they actually need to go out there and be careful, because theres actually folks that have the balls to bullshit and try to rape a department of what a good green or finished police dog should be. There was a department more south of me that got a dog that i wouldn't of probally used for a club dog meanwhile a tactical dog. They ended up just turning the dog into a single purpose narc dog so it wasn't a complete wash for them in which the dog is a banger for dope thank god.


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

Harry Keely said:


> Or maybe some of those things they call protons or protrons or something like that:-k would work too.


Or possibly a few shots of whiskey:lol:


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Harry, what do you consider yourself to be?


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> Somebody thats been around the block a few times and knows his limits to avoid conflict with the public or a agency and thats the point I am trying to make, is that there are plenty out there that are saying or claiming way to much and are going to get themselves or somebody else hurt sooner or later.
> 
> I don't cross the line with customers or agencies if I am unsure and make some shit up just to sound even more stupid then when I first open my mouth in the first place.





Al Curbow said:


> Harry, what do you consider yourself to be?


 I already answered that question for Mr. Butler sir to the best of my knowledge and outlook on this topic, How about yourself Al, how would you describe your outlook on this.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Ricardo Ashton said:


> Or possibly a few shots of whiskey:lol:


I might need to if another person ask me what do I consider myself after I have already answered once now twice:lol::lol: I don't think I will be answering that question for a third time I do believe:twisted:](*,). Folks lets here what your outlook is on this argumentative or not ( mods if you wanna lock it you won't have any complaints out of me being the original poster ) After you have read the thread from the beginning that is don't jump in on the middle or tail end of a conversation if you don't mind please. If you don't have time to read point -a- to point -z- please dont comment on this topic.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I have worked with 3 vendors/trainers of police dogs, as a job for over 4 years...and currently work with 6 K9's over 3 departments, almost weekly, as a monkey in a suit, or a moneky to get pummeled in a muzzle, or a moneky to hide and be found, in a building or in the woods...

But.....I DO NOT claim to be a police dog trainer...

I suppose if I agreed to sell the dog to the police (who have tried to buy her) then I could say I sell dogs for police K9...I donated a GSD 15 yrs ago to Indiana State Prison system, to work as a cell extraction dog...so I guess I am a prison dog supplier...LOL... 

is that what you mean?


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I've read D. Frost say that he's gotten dogs from the pound.........so what's the big deal?


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> I have worked with 3 vendors/trainers of police dogs, as a job for over 4 years...and currently work with 6 K9's over 3 departments, almost weekly, as a monkey in a suit, or a moneky to get pummeled in a muzzle, or a moneky to hide and be found, in a building or in the woods...
> 
> But.....I DO NOT claim to be a police dog trainer...
> 
> ...


Don't mean nothing Joby just curious to what peoples perceptions are, nothing more nothing else.O


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Al Curbow said:


> I've read D. Frost say that he's gotten dogs from the pound.........so what's the big deal?


Nothing wrong with that, if the dog works the dog works, I or I believe so far nobody has said that a sport dog will not make a good police or military dog or a pound or rescue puppy be able to do the job. 
I know I have said in recent threads it should be based and tested on a individual dog to dog basis. I think people are looking way to deep into a simple conversation here#-o:lol::lol: I left it as wide open broad questions of how many people think not how many people know sir. I am not here to judge for the fact I have only known and talked with a handful of ya, but defently not enough to say wheter you are something or not something.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

thanks Harry, this thread will take the pressure off me and my poorly thought through outburst recently. 

to be sure of your question do you mean like those tools that turn up to sch. training in camo gear, "K9 Unit"sweat shirts n the like. 

i think those people are just playing out their fantasies, mostly harmless but certainly delusional. keeps a healthy market for breeders, gear manufacturers, trainers etc.

must get me one of them sweat shirts though n maybe wear it n a weapons utility belt with nothin in it cept some candy bars maybe. also wanna get one of them GSD vest things n look like a trainer.


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

I don't see why you would want the thread locked it seems like a pretty civil and great discussion to me. A deputy saw me playing tug the other day and stopped and asked me what all I was doing with her. Not really being nosy just curious. We talked for about 30 minutes before he got a call(small town) and from talking to him I would really like to get into training PSD's. I train both of my dogs in Schutzhund and idk the differences in the training other than seeing muzzle fighting mentioned but I think with the Schutzhund training and me being a novice it would certainly help me with training PSDs instead of hurt me. Just with learning more about dogs and there language in general. I looked up some police training DVDs to just kind of see them and take them in. Probably gonna order one tomorrow. I love the sport of Schutzhund and I don't want this to sound selfish but I know I would get more self gratification training a dog to do a job in the real world and help communities than I would training a dog to be titled. Any advice you or anyone else has will be heeded and I also have never claimed to do anything with PSDs or MWDs.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> thanks Harry, this thread will take the pressure off me and my poorly thought through outburst recently.
> 
> to be sure of your question do you mean like those tools that turn up to sch. training in camo gear, "K9 Unit"sweat shirts n the like.
> 
> ...


HAHA no problem they can sit on this thread and write all day long and take the weight off the shoulders of the world if they like in idle, I 'm glad it takes the heat off of ya LOL. 

Mope not talking about the players playing, I know exactly what your talking about, but nope not referring to the fantasy folks either, just making conversation and I guess I laced and twisted way to tight in the original starting thread i guess for most folks to grasp :roll::-k:-s


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Thomas Jones said:


> I don't see why you would want the thread locked it seems like a pretty civil and great discussion to me. A deputy saw me playing tug the other day and stopped and asked me what all I was doing with her. Not really being nosy just curious. We talked for about 30 minutes before he got a call(small town) and from talking to him I would really like to get into training PSD's. I train both of my dogs in Schutzhund and idk the differences in the training other than seeing muzzle fighting mentioned but I think with the Schutzhund training and me being a novice it would certainly help me with training PSDs instead of hurt me. Just with learning more about dogs and there language in general. I looked up some police training DVDs to just kind of see them and take them in. Probably gonna order one tomorrow. I love the sport of Schutzhund and I don't want this to sound selfish but I know I would get more self gratification training a dog to do a job in the real world and help communities than I would training a dog to be titled. Any advice you or anyone else has will be heeded and I also have never claimed to do anything with PSDs or MWDs.


Hey they can leave it unlocked fella, I'm cool with that too I am just throwing it out there that I could give a shit less either way because some have grab the concept and answered well and some are just twisted and thats what I was trying to avoid, but like I said I guess it was worded for disaster for the folks that get upset over sport vs. police or military#-o.

Heres my advice for ya, do what makes you and your dog happy, if you choose sport go to a club, if ya can get in with a pd on their training or find a retiree of pd or mwd thats great too if thats what you so choose.

For me I think at this point it will be interesting to see how long it gets dragged out and how many post and views it gets because from the sounds of it, it has already derailed.

Oh another bit of advice I be careful with the sport comments, you will upset and piss the world off and leave alot of panties in a wad about doing things with dogs in the real world. Where alot of th PD's in the USA use KNPV dogs and occasional other sport dogs for the job so I don't know why sport people get so upset about it. Oh just for safe keeps one of two of my dogs is a titled brevet ring dog, so just gos to show ya I am not aginst sport dogs.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Thomas the first thing you need to do
is read a book called "Signal Zero" it might give you something to think about on your feelings for police.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Thomas skip the whole PSD thing .


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

I think you might be right Jim


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

A leader leads by example not by force. Swift as the wind Quiet as the forest Conquer like the fire Steady as the mountain. To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy. Opportunities multiply as they are seized. Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious. Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance. 
All warfare is based on deception.Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by unexpected routes and strike him where he has taken no precautions. To a surrounded enemy, you must leave a way of escape. Management of many is the same as management of few. It is a matter of organization. A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective. For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperilled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle. One defends when his strength is inadaquate, he attacks when it is abundant If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him. Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy.There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities... It is best to win without fighting. What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. When the enemy is at ease, be able to weary him; when well fed, to starve him; when at rest, to make him move. Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you. A skilled commander seeks victory from the situation and does not demand it of his subordinates.
The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand.It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used. The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim.
If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders ARE clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers. The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom. When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of its momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing.All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him. Subtle and insubstantial, the expert leaves no trace; divinely mysterious, he is inaudible. Thus he is master of his enemy's fate. The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. Too frequent rewards indicate that the general is at the end of his resources; too frequent punishments that he is in acute distress. Now the reason the enlightened prince and the wise general conquer the enemy whenever they move and their achievements surpass those of ordinary men is foreknowledge.The control of a large force is the same principle as the control of a few men: it is merely a question of dividing up their numbers. The ultimate in disposing one's troops is to be without ascertainable shape. Then the most penetrating spies cannot pry in nor can the wise lay plans against you.Secret operations are essential in war; upon them the army relies to make its every move. If you know your enemy and you know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself you will succumb in every battle.

On that note folks I'm going to call it quits and pack it in for the night so on that note have a nice and quiet one.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm just a guy that has enjoyed playing with dogs for the past 50-60 yrs. 
I'd love to learn every aspect of what a dog can do. That also means that I'm probably not great at any one of those aspects.......but I'm still having fun!
Harry's question is similar to all the folks that run their terriers in den trials and then claim to have working terriers. Some can do both and some can't do either one. Doesn't stop them from making claims though. :wink:


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Jim Nash said:


> Thomas skip the whole PSD thing .


Why do you say that


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> I'm just a guy that has enjoyed playing with dogs for the past 50-60 yrs.
> I'd love to learn every aspect of what a dog can do. That also means that I'm probably not great at any one of those aspects.......but I'm still having fun!
> Harry's question is similar to all the folks that run their terriers in den trials and then claim to have working terriers. Some can do both and some can't do either one. Doesn't stop them from making claims though. :wink:


DING DING DING DING we have another winner folks=D>, another one that has grab the whole point of the original posted thread. Thankyou Bob and to the others that figured out the reason for this whole thread, alright I'm getting out here for real now, good night folks.

Oh yea all that jibber jabber is exactly that, figured I throw it in there to entertain folks. C - Ya.:-D


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Thomas Jones said:


> Why do you say that


 
In all seriousness folks keep it going its meant well and there are legit people wanting to know, so let the forum be what it is set out to be and thats a source of knowledge for the new and old in correct propaganda.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Keely, are you seriously going to copy and paste that here without giving credit to the author you took it from???

On a thread that you started about people claiming to be something they're not?


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

I just read a review for that book and it looks like a pretty good read. With that said I know I have made some comments on here that have probably offended some of you. I thought about some stuff that I said and realized you have to make decisions on the hoof sometimes and while they may not be right its still a decision that you have to make in a fraction of a second. I have been in a couple of those situations and luckily made the right decision but I know how easy it can be to make the wrong one so I am a little more sympathetic about some of the situations I've argued. I also come to the realization that this place is not a place for me to voice my frustration about something just because there are people that can answer my questions about something.


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## Petra Dabezic (May 23, 2011)

Ok, that is pretty funny.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Drew Peirce said:


> Keely, are you seriously going to copy and paste that here without giving credit to the author you took it from???
> 
> On a thread that you started about people claiming to be something they're not?


:-\" Its actually pieces of the book ( The Art of War by Sun Tzu, 600 BC )


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

John-Ashley Hill said:


> If a dept. doesn't do their homework and due dilligence before purchasing a dog from a breeder/kennel then they are getting out of the deal what they put into it. There are always going to be those that claim that they cand do alot more than they can actually deliver and not just in the dog world. As far as the sprot dogs go, the fact that they are sport dogs definetly doesn't mean they can't be awesome working dogs. There are tons of IPO, Schutzhund, and KNPV dogs at the kennel where we purchase our dogs and everyone of them that I have seen is a great working dog, my KNPV Mal X included. But there are definelty people out there that can't or don't differentiate between a dog that is a good sport dog but doesnt have it in them to be a PSD/MWD and definelty enough people to ignorant or lazy to do some research to find out themselves.


A really good point and one I have spoken about on many occasions from any venue that would listen. I've encouraged law enforcement agencies to use caution when buying a dog. Treat dog vendors as used car salesmen. Most importantly to test, test, test. If it's a trained drug dog, test it in a neutral area, using your drugs, on blind problems. If it's a trained patrol dog, do the basics, using your decoy in a neutral area; will the dog pursue, engage, hold until commanded to do else were. Test on basic ob, a short building search, all simple stuff that takes on only minutes, but can save months of grief. 

I even, on several occasions, have encouraged USPCA to develop a type of vendor checklist. Not a certification, but a checklist of basic tasks and whether a dog could do those tasks or not. It would help departments that don't have staff trainers and at least provide them with some assistance. 

Of course I also encourage departments to do their own health checks to include xrays. I've always had this feeling there is one set of xrays of good hips they pass around, ha ha. 

At any rate, it's good for a department to test their own potential dogs. If they don't have the expertise, then ask a department that does have the expertise. Surly there would be some interagency assistance without having to "pay" some police officer from another agency to help. 

DFrost
DFrost


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I don't think, I KNOW I"m f'ing awesome. End of story.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Harry,

Maybe we do it differently over here, Switzerland, Germany, Austria, etc.

The breeders ensure athletic, healthy dogs - that is a first and always necessary for Police Dogs?

The second is that we have no Police Dog Breeders. The dogs come from excellent dog breeders breeding for dogs that "could" become sport or service dogs and especially not those who are just out to produce fast and furious sport dogs. Anything else would not be viable. There are a number of breeders breeding "serious" dogs.

Many police dog handlers join us for up to 12 months, take advantage of our infrastructure, watch how the young dog develops and, if well, the young dog enters an approximative 2 year training in the police force.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> I don't think, I KNOW I"m f'ing awesome. End of story.


Why am I not surprised with a response like that from you :lol::lol::lol:


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Harry,
> 
> Maybe we do it differently over here, Switzerland, Germany, Austria, etc.
> 
> ...


Alot of things are done professionally over there in which more should strive for here like they do on the other side of the pond. Thats what a breeder should ensure for in all the things you said as well as the police handler if its possible for them I think especially if they are going the puppy route.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

The only people I see in my industry bitching and moaning about others in the industry are the ones that are actually the bottom of the bucket trying to make themselves look/feel better. I very rarely ever heard someone on top of their game bitch about others. It just makes people think less of you. We don’t need any more internet heroes. There are one or two guys on here that actually do sell dogs for real use, I never heard them bitch about other breeders.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> The only people I see in my industry bitching and moaning about others in the industry are the ones that are actually the bottom of the bucket trying to make themselves look/feel better. I very rarely ever heard someone on top of their game bitch about others. It just makes people think less of you. We don’t need any more internet heroes. There are one or two guys on here that actually do sell dogs for real use, I never heard them bitch about other breeders.


 
Out of the mouths of retarts :-\" just kidding Chris, I agree.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I think you are too Ashley.

Great point John.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Out of the mouths of retarts :-\" just kidding Chris, I agree.


 
At least you spelt it with a “T”


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> The only people I see in my industry bitching and moaning about others in the industry are the ones that are actually the bottom of the bucket trying to make themselves look/feel better. I very rarely ever heard someone on top of their game bitch about others. It just makes people think less of you. We don’t need any more internet heroes. There are one or two guys on here that actually do sell dogs for real use, I never heard them bitch about other breeders.


Very good point Chris, but I don't think anyone is bitching, might sound like that but so far all I have seen from the get go is discussion fella. Ain't know body claimed to be gods gift or that top of their game either that there walking on water to the world either in this thread either so far, not saying that their aren't folks on this forum that might think that. Theres alot more than two people that have sold dogs for real life applications as well, maybe not to the extent of the two which you are referring too but that is niether here or there, because thats just a implied consent of ones thinking versus another. 

Also I don't think there is really a issue at least with this site as there is compared to such others that are making claims to what might be or might not be the honesty. There might be some on here but if there is they are not posters on this forum unless I am missing something and others are missing to that you can maybe shed some light on.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> Why am I not surprised with a response like that from you :lol::lol::lol:


Because you know it as well as I do.  \\/


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