# Dealing with anxiety (the dog's)



## Mike McKenna (Apr 22, 2013)

I am fairly new to working with service dogs. Recently began fostering them at various stages in their training. I am not a trainer but am trying to learn more about that so I can be a better handler/foster.

The dog that I have right now is training to assist with Autism. I was asked to foster this dog due to some anxiety induced failures during basic training. The anxiety supposedly came from kennel life during basic training.

The dog does not show many signs of anxiety, but will do a controllable pull towards an exit whenever we near the doors of a store/restaurant. The dog forgets staying at my side and heads for the comfort? of the outdoors. This behavior sometimes continues in the parking lot. Interestingly, at least to me, the dog finds comfort in automobiles. He will pull towards random cars and if I let him will just go up to it and lean on it for a second. Its not too difficult to get him back in line and walk with me, but if we can't break him of this he may wash out of the program.

My question is are there techniques for dealing with canine stress? What training exercises would you recommend?

Thanks,

Mike


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Hmm, I think maybe he needs washing out of it tbh, but I am no service dog trainer.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

you may not be a certified trainer but you are certainly training the dog when you are with it and it is observing and learning from your actions. so don't consider yourself "just a foster" that is feeding and watering it 
- training is no more than conditioning a dog to "do things" the handler wants it to do 

regarding stress ... if you can recognize it simply try and lower or remove whatever the stimulus is that is stressing the dog and continue walking it ... if you can't ID what is causing the stress, simply remove the dog in a calm manner to another area which will hopefully put it more at ease. 
- what you do NOT want to do is try and "calm it down" in any way or project any "stress" of your own "down the leash" 
- test to see if you are having any positive effect by allowing the dog to go back to the same environment and do the same work, or bring it to that area and simply occupy its mind with something you know the dog likes to do and give it a chance to ignore the stimulus

- i feel strongly the people you work for should be telling you how to handle these kinds of situations rather than you having to go online and get snippets from people who don't know you or the dog you're working with. 
- they shouldn't expect you to work in a vacuum and seek outside help on basic issues of how to deal with stress and other issues .... imo 

sorry, not much help here .... good luck and thanks for doing the work you do


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## Mike McKenna (Apr 22, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Rick.

There is not any certain identifiable stressor that I am aware of. The most recent outing was just a walk through the grocery store with a few sit and waits. Then as soon as he saw the door he wanted to go.

I agree that I should get more guidance from the training staff, I am trying to plan some dual training sessions with them. The main reason I came here for advice is because I 'want' to be able to "fix" him, even after the tainer said that he may not be able to be fixed.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike, please don't forget to do an intro/bio:

http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f20/


Thanks.

And Welcome to WDF.


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

Mike McKenna said:


> The dog that I have right now is training to assist with Autism. I was asked to foster this dog due to some anxiety induced failures during basic training. The anxiety supposedly came from kennel life during basic training.


First I think it is a very nice thing you are doing to try and help with the service dog program. In order to get a better idea of why the dog reacts this way I hope they gave you more details of this dog's history? 

Based only on your above comment about the dog supposedly having anxiety due to kenneling, it seems to me it is a possible lack of socialization or exposure to the world. I am not sure how old the dog is, or how the basic training routine goes, nor how many hrs a day it was in a kennel- but those answers may help figure this out a little easier.

So I am "assuming" here which I don't like to do, but IF the dog was worked an hour or 2 a day, then kenneled....it makes sense that going into these busy, noisy establishments somehow trigger the thought that he's about to get put up (or resembles the train/kennel routine) and wants to get out when the chance presents itself.

It is also possible the dog finds comfort in automobiles from associating a fun activity with them like going to a park, walking, or swimming after the ride. 

I am not sure if any of my input applies to this dog, but if some more details can be offered you may get some clearer advice.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Just a random comment on the door/car thing. Through early experiences, some dogs learn to see doors as a vehicle (transitional context) leading to something else more interesting, new or exciting. My dog Wasabi is one of them. There could be a fire on the otherside of that door, a wall of water, or the passage to hell and it wouldn't matter to her, she wants to get to it and go through. 

Keep in mind though that I exposed her a lot to rooms and buildings where she could get in them and act like a fool while searching for hidden objects so to her doors have a positive relationshipthat leads to eventually being rewarded. 

Everything else aside, I do understand you mentioned the dog was coined with some sort of anxiety issues. I will take you at your work on that and ask, if so are such dogs properly suited for autistic individuals especially in a service related capacity? Perhaps a different goal for the dog may net more pleasing results,


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

I see this with puppies during the socialization process when I get them out and about - it is when they are in an environment that they are not comfortable with. They are ready to leave and start pulling to the door and then to the car which is a place that is less stressful for them.

Sometimes they know and are comfortable with the place, but there are more environmental things going on - for example Petsmart on Saturday with adoptions and crazy poorly behaved handlers and even crazier dogs.

Sometimes it is the length of time in an uncomfortable situation - they are mentally tired and ready to get out of there. 

You need to get specific information about what the dog could and could not tolerate before you got him. You also need to find out what the requirements are for your program. Your trainer needs to be very specific. You obviously have the time and interest in training this dog, but you need help - they shouldn't just throw the dog at you. 

I suggest that you try to get a baseline going - familiar place, so many minutes with certain activities. I would go back to the same place, spend less time, and see how he does.Then add more time. Then start adding environmentals to the situation. After the dog is comfortable with this, then change to a new place. Just logically build.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

+1 to what Nicole said. 

I have a dog that pulls towards a door. It incessantly pulls unless it is under strict obedience. When I do obedience within eyesight of the door the dog is shaking out of control with anxiety, and quivering, eyeing the door while under obedience. Left to her own devices, the dog will hop and jump and claw at the door. She looks like she can't stand being where she is. Coming out of her skin to neurotically claw at the door. Oh my.

In reality we play chuck it on the soccer field on the other side of the door and she is driven for a tennis ball. I put some obedience in prior to the door, and it looks great now. 

What specifically would make YOU think that the dog has problems, other than being told that it has problems with anxiety? 





Nicole Stark said:


> Just a random comment on the door/car thing. Through early experiences, some dogs learn to see doors as a vehicle (transitional context) leading to something else more interesting, new or exciting. My dog Wasabi is one of them. There could be a fire on the otherside of that door, a wall of water, or the passage to hell and it wouldn't matter to her, she wants to get to it and go through.
> 
> Keep in mind though that I exposed her a lot to rooms and buildings where she could get in them and act like a fool while searching for hidden objects so to her doors have a positive relationshipthat leads to eventually being rewarded.
> 
> Everything else aside, I do understand you mentioned the dog was coined with some sort of anxiety issues. I will take you at your work on that and ask, if so are such dogs properly suited for autistic individuals especially in a service related capacity? Perhaps a different goal for the dog may net more pleasing results,


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

I went back and read the OP's post and got even more confused. 

Is the dog pulling you toward the door and out to the car really an anxiety problem or is it an obedience problem? I originally answered because I thought that you said that the dog was acting this way because it was anxious. Is the dog really anxious? Do you know how to read the dog correctly when it is anxious versus when it is not? 

The dog failed basic training due to anxiety issues that were caused by kennel life? What? Was the dog not properly socialized or was he traumatized while kenneled? Do you have a socialization or maybe a rehabilitation situation?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Mike, 

Chances are the dog does not handle change of environment well and he is relieved when he gets to leave. Would have to see the dog but as AnnaMarie states, having recently dealt with this with a dog where its public places with increased stimuli, that's probably what you are dealing with.
Like Annamarie said, you need more information--or we do.

T


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

It's obviously a crank post, and he got you...

Good call Nicole!!!


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Yes, its probably better to let the investigators investigate when its someone new--especially when I'm back and forth between WDF and FB.

T


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

after reading this ...
" The main reason I came here for advice is because I 'want' to be able to "fix" him, even after the tainer said that he may not be able to be fixed. "

it sounds more like the certified trainers are in the process of washing the dog out.
i'm fine with that. 
- they should set high standards and not compromise. based on that, i'm also assuming the trainers worked on this problem and couldn't fix it so chances are you won't be able to either. 

but it doesn't seem clear about what info you were given when the dog came to you and of course they shouldn't expect you to fix something THEY couldn't, UNLESS it was something that required a lot of time they didn't have, and only if you were given clear instructions how to continue the work.

i would like to think the problems can be overcome, but at the same time, the dog either has to get certified and placed with a disabled owner, or be dropped and sold to a family as a nice pet.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

not sure what an autism dog is required to do, but if the dog has anxiety issues, really doesnt sound like it is a good job for that dog..doesnt sound good at all really...


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## Mike McKenna (Apr 22, 2013)

[/QUOTE]Everything else aside, I do understand you mentioned the dog was coined with some sort of anxiety issues. I will take you at your work on that and ask, if so are such dogs properly suited for autistic individuals especially in a service related capacity? Perhaps a different goal for the dog may net more pleasing results,[/QUOTE]

Nicole, you are probably correct that this dog may need to be repurposed. That is what the trainer indicated to me after I described these behaviors to her. The thing is, I don't want that to be true! He has a great demeanor, gentle, patient, affectionate. So I came here to get a second opinion of sorts. He is not out of the program yet though, the trainers will take him back this week and work with him and reevaluated him.

Since I learned last night that the trainers are going to take him back on saturday I guess there is no urgency for me to learn techniques for dealing with his anxiety if that is what it is. Still I want to learn more about these things. I have a full time job (which allows me to bring these dogs with me every day!) so my time for learning training is somewhat limited.

I too was surprised that they just "threw these dogs at me" without much training. I guess they just really didn't need me to do much more than take care of them for a few weeks. As I have shown more and more interest in their work the trainers have been inviting me to become more involved.

As for this dog specifically, the trainer hoped that after the stressful kennel experience the dog may "reset" after being in a stable environment for a while. Let's hope it worked.

Thanks All.


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## Mike McKenna (Apr 22, 2013)

Dave Colborn said:


> It's obviously a crank post, and he got you...
> 
> Good call Nicole!!!


Not sure why you would think this was a crank post! To quote Sweet Brown: "Ain't nobody got time for that!"


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

gentle affectionate and overall good demeanor is admirable, but a certified service dog should also have a strong UNFLAPPABLE working ethic to deal with idiots and environmental stressors it will encounter on a daily basis

hoping the dog will "reset" seems a little like wishful thinking 

....Some very general advice for any type foster you are out with :
- if you constantly try and get the dog to focus on YOU rather than the environment around it, the better and stronger it will get. your goal should be to keep thinking of new imaginative ways to hold the dog's attention rather than let it develop a "scanning" attitude. dogs have good enuff vision and other senses to know what's going on around them without depending that much on eyesight. getting better focus with all the various types of "watch me" drills is sure to help. all in all, think of it as a constant drill to make the dog care less what is happening in its vicinity and instead make it focus on the handler and still have fun in the process ... and NOT just focus on you because it HAS to, based on some OB command
... pretty "general advice" for sure, but not everyone does it that way. if you can get a "look" whenever you ask for it, but then it immediately looks away; you're not there yet 

discuss this with your training staff and see if they concur 
good luck


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

Mike,

It sounds like since you do not have a background in developing a dog for their program, you did not know enough to ask the pertinent questions from the trainers. You could still call them even though you only have a few days left with the dog - they at least owe you that. I would still take the dog back to the same places where you have been socializing him to see if he improves. It is great that you are taking him to work - that is probably why the trainers asked you to foster him.

Maybe the dog was rescued from a shelter situation. That environment can really mess a dog up for a while, especially if he spent some time there. And if the dog had a bad start before he ended up in a shelter, it just makes it worse. You just can't take a dog from that environment and turn it around quickly. Maybe this dog needs more time.

But learning how and why to socialize any dog is good information. What you learn here can be applied to all dogs. Even if the dog gets washed out, he needs to be properly socialized for a pet home.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

well, i don't know anything at all about training a service dog for someone with autism but i sure hope whoever he's working for has some recognized certification and is not a home grown company selling "service dogs"
...i have worked with JGDA trainers working labs in training and the situations he described would not have happened that way under this system....in Japan, service dogs are bred, not rescued from shelters


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Crank post?

Well, a trainer that would send a potential service dog home with someone with no instructions.

No description of the anxiety, instead posting that the dog doesn't seem anxious.

Your description of the dog pulling is getting it washed out... of what program?

Just a lot of things that raise flags, and yes, people do post things on here that are crank-ish. 

What behaviors did you describe to the trainer, that you haven't described here, to make her think the dog would need to be washed out?

Why would you come to this board when you have pro trainers that gave you the dog in the first place?

Yeah, lots of things don't seem right about your post. If you are here to learn, great. Hope it works out well for you.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

2012 NYT magazine article on autism dog.

www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/magazine/wonder-dog.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

Mike, one last time, I would call one of the trainers and see if you can get your questions answered. If they are not able to advise you over the phone, especially after they left the dog with you, then you may need to reevaluate how much involvement you want with this organization. You need support. 

You are also "training" the dog. Yes, socialization is a very important type of training in a dog's development. It is not difficult, but it takes planning, time, and patience. Even socialization training has to have goals - what is the end environment for this dog and how are you going to get him there based on his individual temperament. 

Is this a certified organization or individual? What are their credentials? Where have they placed dogs? 
There must be a reason why you are so hesitant to get more information? Maybe you feel put upon and are just waiting to send the dog back on Saturday. Maybe you realize this group or individual is not a good fit for you. Maybe you do not feel comfortable dealing with this trainer and want the anonymity of an internet forum. Maybe since this forum is anonymous to you, you don't feel you owe us an explanation.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

btw, don't think i'm bragging that Japan has a super great guide dog system. we are way behind other countries both in training and in gaining access for guide dogs.
...there are problems :-(
and here is one i'm very familiar with ... it's a legit story and happened in my neck of the woods :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IERsFdY104E

back on topic .... if the OP doesn't want to discuss the outfit he is working for, i would not tend to give it much credibility ... they should be proud of their work and happy to discuss their training system, and open to suggestions for improvement that are thoughtfully and respectfully presented.


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## Mike McKenna (Apr 22, 2013)

Dave Colborn said:


> Crank post?
> 
> Well, a trainer that would send a potential service dog home with someone with no instructions.
> 
> ...


Oh well, sorry I didn't include enough information for you in my first post. I'll try to do better next time. Frankly, I didn't know what information was pertinent at the start of the discussion.

Still the overall question remains, are there techniques for dealing with a dog that shows signs of anxiety? or are those dogs destined to wash out of the SD world? I realize that the answer, as with lots of things, is probably 'it depends'.


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## Mike McKenna (Apr 22, 2013)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> 2012 NYT magazine article on autism dog.
> 
> www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/magazine/wonder-dog.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


 
Thanks for posting that. What great motivation for getting more involved!


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

_"Frankly, I didn't know what information was pertinent at the start of the discussion."_

We told you what information we needed, even in the quote that you included in your post. You never gave us more information. You obviously are in contact with the trainer because you had a conversation with the trainer about returning the dog on Saturday - you could have gotten the information then. The issue is that you resist sharing information with the forum to where it makes us suspicious of you and/or the trainer. 
.
_"Still the overall question remains, are there techniques for dealing with a dog that shows signs of anxiety? or are those dogs destined to wash out of the SD world? I realize that the answer, as with lots of things, is probably 'it depends'."_

The answer is "yes" there are techniques. And "yes and no" these dogs are destined to wash out of the SD world. Why don't you start reading up on service dog training - there are books and dvd's available. If you are not satisfied with your current service dog group, then contact some others. 

This thread is now at a point where it's wasting my time - I'm gone.


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## Mike McKenna (Apr 22, 2013)

Annamarie Somich said:


> Mike,
> 
> It sounds like since you do not have a background in developing a dog for their program, you did not know enough to ask the pertinent questions from the trainers. You could still call them even though you only have a few days left with the dog - they at least owe you that. I would still take the dog back to the same places where you have been socializing him to see if he improves. It is great that you are taking him to work - that is probably why the trainers asked you to foster him.
> 
> ...


Thanks Annamarie, that is helpful. I am at the very beginning of MY training. Could you suggest a good DVD or book that will help me?

As to your other point about my reluctance to identify the group that I am working with. I guess that I don't want the professionals in this forum to judge the professionals in 'my' group too harshly based on my lack of knowledge. I wanted to come here as an alternate source of information that is easy to access (right at my fingertips 24/7). 

For now, here is a bit more background. I was recommended by a friend who works closely with this SD group as a good foster candidate. I have been asked to foster two different dogs over the past several months. The first had been through most of his training and was supposed to go to an adult with Autism. Due to personal issues with the human client the graduation and placement with the client had to be delayed for a few months, so they asked me to take care of him. He had been socialized and trained but would go through several weeks of 'brush up' training prior to the hand off procedures.

The dog that I started this post about had been through basic training, they call it boot camp. The facility that does this basic training is out of state. When the trainer went to bring this dog back for client specific training, the anxiety isssues were recognized. The trainer surmised that the dog would likey wash out due to the anxiety but called to see if I would take him for a while in the hopes that he would 'reset' after being in a stable home for a while and away from the kennel where they think that his anxiety stems from. I think this shows good judgement on their part. They are perfectly willing to wash him out but are going to give him a chance.

They have shown me how they expect me to handle the dog in public places. I do feel like I need more training in that area and will be working with them more on this. I think that with both of the dogs that I have had so far the trainers weren't to worried about whether I could handle the dog perfectly. As the dogs would ultimately go back into training after their foster time. Also I don't think putting trianed dogs in foster is the norm, they want me to take a puppy but that doesn't fit with my schedule as well.

That's all I've got for now, I don't like typing long posts any more than I like reading long post. Sorry.

As an aside, today I participated in the evaluation of a dog that is graduating and going home with his new family. It was really great to see the interaction of the dog and child and mother, and hear from the mother what a difference the dog will likely make in their lives.


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

When the trainer went to bring this dog back for client specific training, the anxiety isssues were recognized. .......the kennel where they think that his anxiety stems from......

You don't get it Mike. You never gave us the specific behaviors that the trainer said were anxiety issues. You never described the kennel environment that the trainer thought caused the anxiety. You just don't get it dude. Troubleshooting is getting to the root cause. We gave you homework - questions to go back to the trainer in order to gather more information so that this forum could help you. You refused to do that. When you take your car to the mechanic, you don't just drop the car off. When asked what is wrong with it, you don't just describe the paint color or stereo system. That is what you did on this forum.

Sounds like this is a bad deal between the trainer and the facility where he got the dog and you got stuck in between. If you did not want to give enough details in order to get helpful info, then you should not have posted on a forum. You need to find a mentor that you trust and have private conversations.


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## Mike McKenna (Apr 22, 2013)

Perhaps I don't quite get it.

In my mind, the specific points of this entire points were rendered moot when I told everyone in post 16 (wednesday) that I would only have the dog until Saturday. Certainly not enough time for an inexperience person to do much to benefit the dog (especially with a full time job). That is why I didn't seek out all of the particulars from the trainers to pass along to this discussion group. It really became a general question at that point.

Anyway, I think some of the posts here may have helped me. Here is what I have taken from this discussion. The urge that this dog showed to head for the doors could be anxiety or could be an obedience/discipline issue. If its anxiety the key is to understand where the anxiety stems from and try to address that specifically. If it is not anxiety, it is probably that the dog associates outside with a fun rewarding activity and can be corrected with more training.

Is that it in a nut shell or have I misread?

Again, can anyone suggest a good book for a beginner?

Please take it easy on the new guy.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

welcome to the shark tank 

dont be a feeder..

sometimes people miss key things that are posted, it happens. 

Dont take it personally, if you do, you will not have fun posting here.

If you do post, be prepared to answer lots of questions, and check back often, there are lots of people on here that read and also many that post, so threads can build up quickly...snowball...sometimes people do also miss details, like the ones in post 16.

Dont know much about service dogs personally, cant offer much advice aside from anxious or nervesness is NOT good in any service dog that I can think of, and I am guessing that there are plenty of more solid dogs to use than ones with those issues, but I also realize that you are interested in helping out, not calling the shots..

good luck


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike McKenna said:


> .... the trainers will take him back this week and work with him and reevaluated him.
> 
> Since I learned last night that the trainers are going to take him back on saturday I guess there is no urgency for me to learn techniques for dealing with his anxiety if that is what it is. Still I want to learn more about these things. I have a full time job (which allows me to bring these dogs with me every day!) so my time for learning training is somewhat limited.


This sounds like maybe where the thread stands now ... ?


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