# Braxton's First Send Into The Blind..



## Tiffany Compton (Oct 7, 2009)

Up to this point Braxton's only blind work has been presented to him from directly in front of the blind... This weekend we started with the actual send into the blind on his own as well as working on going from the 5 blind into the 6 blind on Sunday... He's pretty dirty, but we can work on that.

Suggestions? Opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgYNhgYzB4


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Tiffany,
Looks like a dog with a lot of eagerness! Why does the decoy reward him when he is being dirty?
Imo this way he gets rewarded for taking liberties,i would also leave the line on the dog in this stage.
Does he do all six blinds already or do i understand this wrong?Does your dog out already?


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## Brian McConnell (Feb 6, 2010)

Dog looks great lots of drive and reallly likes the helper. I would clean up the dirty bites soon as it can get to be a habit very quickly . Helper seems to push the sleeve down to the dog after giving the bite signal , could this hurt the dogs neck, dog going one wat sleeve going the other.
Lastly where did you get that fab fiddle misic in the background.
Brian


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Really like seeing Braxton working again - *always* loved that dog! Reminds me of his sire.

I'm not an experienced trainer in the sport by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm curious....If you just went from sending him in to do a b&h from the front - was he* consistently* clean, without a line correction/checking? Once my boy was clean from the front we spent almost as much time ensuring that he was clean when sending him from the side of the blind (just even with the blind) *keeping the line on* so that he could be checked if needed BEFORE he was able to get dirty...then moved the distance back slowly. As I remember...Braxton always had alot of drive and I don't think it will squelch any of it...if you show him now that being clean is *required* of him.

It is always easier to teach things right the first time then to have to go back and "fix" things - as I've learned the hard way in my short time in this sport. A very smart trainer reminds me frequently - if a dog shows you an undersireable behavior...if your not extinquishing it ...then *your teaching it*. Even more so when he gets rewarded after the undesireable behavior with a bite. Easier to make it clear to the dog from the beginning and set a good foundation , then to possibley create unnecessary conflict later (especially knowing the history of Braxton with his first handler) trying to fix what you actually taught him.

Just my two cents.....wishing nothing but the best for Braxton and you!!!!


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Lacey Vessell said:


> A very smart trainer reminds me frequently - if a dog shows you an undersireable behavior...if your not extinquishing it ...then *your teaching it*.


 
LOVE THAT......... and can so relate....getting dirty can be one of the hardest things to fix.....](*,)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The dog was clean till the leash came off, and that is pretty telling. The progression that i like is to go from the front, you being 6 o'clock and then go to 7, then 8 then bla bla bla. You leave the leash on. To me, you went way to fast. When you get to 9 then someone else holds the leash to keep the dog clean. If the dog bites, you don't continue the exercise, you take him back and do it again.

WTF do I know, according to the morons here I don't do and have never done Sch. LOL


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

why ask opinions from a dog board when you train with one of the best clubs in the country


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> why ask opinions from a dog board when you train with one of the best clubs in the country


I'll also ask dose your club and helpers know that your posting video of there work on dog boards and asking for critiques.
A first glance I might question but since you train with OG Indy Ill give more than the benefit of doubt to your helper. First you got the stupid fiddle music playing so I cant here the dog barking second no one here can see what the helper sees why hes allowing the dog to be dirty and why he gives the bite at the moment he dose.
Ive never watched them train"OG Indy" but I'll bet a million bucks they don't clean a dog up in the blind like that namby pamby method Michael Ellis dose drop the sleeve crap and do it again, again, again, again.
Prolly I'm guessing going to let him settle and get confident, often and prolly in your dogs case pot shots are insecurity with some good training he might bark like hes got a set of nutz instead of the bullshit prey bark 95% of the malis got coming into the blind.
Any way its your dog but if there club is like ours there stamp is on every team in the club.
"just guessing"


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The dog was clean till the leash came off, and that is pretty telling. The progression that i like is to go from the front, you being 6 o'clock and then go to 7, then 8 then bla bla bla. You leave the leash on. To me, you went way to fast. When you get to 9 then someone else holds the leash to keep the dog clean. If the dog bites, you don't continue the exercise, you take him back and do it again.
> 
> WTF do I know, according to the morons here I don't do and have never done Sch. LOL




Jeff doesn't know shit about schH so ignore his post and let me tell you what to do. Keep the leash on the dog. Don't worry about running blinds until the dog is clean. There are ways to teach the B&H off leash but the helper doesn't know how otherwise he'd be doing it but you can ask him how his kung fu is anyway.

You're doing too much too soon, imagine a clock, start from 6 o'clock then move to 7 then 8 etc. As you progress then have somebody ready to grab and hold the leash. A dog like that is going to gain some mighty bad habits very quickly.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Nice work, how old is Braxton?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Prolly I'm guessing 

Quote: "just guessing" 


Why would you even bother to write then ?? I mean as pointless as your post is, maybe you just be quiet. After all, with your amazing club, and the fact as you say, dogs only do what you train them, AND the fact that you ripped out an amazing 240 after 2 years of training for the silly Sch two, with your amazing club, with their powerful barking dogs, not all prey, but apparently unable to teach a pattern in two years. Two years, and a ripping 240 with a power bark.

Yep, you are right, you are just guessing. It shows in your training, as dogs only do what they are trained to do. 

God damn your dumb. Good luck with that amazing club and thier amazing techniques for ripping out a shitty score every two years.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Faisal Khan said:


> Nice work, how old is Braxton?


Braxton will be 6 yrs old in a couple of weeks.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Prolly I'm guessing
> 
> Quote: "just guessing"
> 
> ...


:lol: Yeh what was I thinking she needs to cut copy and print your post and get it to the TD and helper rite away and tell them this guy on the dog board watched my video and said his is all wrong and were clueless this what we need to do.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Your reading comprehension is just as bad as ever. I often wonder why someone asks for people to comment, like she did, when she is right there at the club, and even has video of the dog being dirty over and over. However, if you DO slow down and sound out the big words, you will find that she does ask.


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

A couple things here from me..

She did ask for opinoins so she deserves what she gets..
On the other hand i know this clube very well and they train there way with great success..

We all train different ways, training is training no matter the sport i do lots of suit work at my sch club, I also have been at ring clubs world wide and have seen them use sleeves..In almost all sports we ask for similair behaviors. YES?NO?..

Why does all costructive topics become a cussing match, WHY?..This is why most high level trainers avoid boards like they are a untreatable disease...

On the other hand why do people believe that you can get advice on what to do with your dog on a video..WHY? It is STUPID and in many cases would piss off who you train with..If a club memeber came to me and said Joe Blow said we should do this because he watched a video..I would tell them to go train with them..Training is hands on, must beable to see the dogs eyes ears shoulders tail to determine what to do next..We also let somethings slide to benifit what to do next..This is done HANDS ON..


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Oh Tiffany not an attack on you good luck have fun, Mike and Nate will do what is right for you and Braxton according to there program..

Clark Niemitalo


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Prolly I'm guessing
> 
> Quote: "just guessing"
> 
> ...


Things were bad enough at 260 not 240 for the record not sure you know what your talking about a couple of months prior our Sch 1 score was 273 
I'm not so stupid as to tell someone how to fix a problem by there description or video best I got is a guess or a suggestion.
Ain't there a ring section to hang at and dazzle them your brilliance, knowledge and video assessment get wile you can wont be long before they throw the lock on that one too.
JMO best thing WDF has done start the Schutzhund section and lock your dumb ass out maybe we can get some credible lurkers to come in.


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## Fathi Shahin (Apr 2, 2010)

Tiffany Compton said:


> Up to this point Braxton's only blind work has been presented to him from directly in front of the blind... This weekend we started with the actual send into the blind on his own as well as working on going from the 5 blind into the 6 blind on Sunday... He's pretty dirty, but we can work on that.
> 
> Suggestions? Opinions?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgYNhgYzB4


On a positive note, well done on at least getting out there and training your dog, I'm sure you will sort out the dogs dirty bits. Keep it up he looks like he has the goods.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

WOW a Sch one. Do you actually hold the leash for training, or does someone do that for you as well.

As far as deserves what she gets, all she got from me was what I would do. There are all kinds of ways to clean up a dog, sometimes the dog just figures out what the deal is, and cleans up on their own.

To say that you cannot give advice from a video is goofy. I have no idea why "high level trainers" avoid giving someone a different perspective. Could give a shit less. I don't see you offering any advice, are you afraid that delicate will get his panties in a bunch ?? LOL If a trainer is so sensitive that his work cannot be shown on youtube, and a different way of training can not be discussed then **** em.

Mike, nice of you to try and hide behind Clark, but I don't know who he is, and I rarely see him help out here, just bitch about the board. Maybe he should go the way of high level trainers if he cannot offer advice. 

Hands on. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

I don't bitch about the board, I enjoy this board..I bitch about the slander between trainers and sports..And Jeff i dont know you either so what does that mean Not a FU##ING thing in my eyes..As far as i Know you just did your first title WOOHOO GO GET EM..

Offering advice is not what is happening most the time..Fighting and bashing is what is..Show me a constructive topic where an opinoin can be given without a down fall im in..


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So what you are saying is that there has never been a thread that constructive advice has been offered, PLUS you goofy ****, tell me about the hands on thing, and how that is the only way that anyone could possibly train a dog again ?? LOL

Your claim to fame is that you can catch dogs, and are unable to run them off the field. Of course your a Sch helper that gets USED a lot. LOL Now you can see that I don't give a **** about you either, maybe you would like to buck up and maybe offer suggestions. Or you can cur out like the last few thousand times I asked you this question.

So here we have famous whats his name, we all see him wearing his little Sch outfit, and clearly anyone can see what a political **** he is. Careful, someones feelings get hurt. Since this comes out fairly naturally, how hard do you think politico here was pushing the dogs ?? LOL


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Ok my advice would be come let me work the dog so i can see what has been done and move on from there..Without knowing the foundation and what has been done its hard to give advice from a short clip..i have never tried to throw my self out there as some sort of a god..My achievements come from a passion of working dogs, That is my own. I dont care what others think or say..

As far as my political view say what you wanna say..I try to promote not bashing of people or there dogs and training to better the dog world..if you ask about me I hope that many would say i am a nice person that is willing to help.No matter the sport or the situation.

But see you know more about what i have done then what i know about you..Once again all i know is you just did a mondio 1 could be the first time you have stepped on the field as far as i know..Maybe you have done more? But what gives you and or anybody else the right to attack other people and what they do? I gave my opinoin now answer mine..

Hands on is a simple term if you dont get it you never will sorry..


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Oh i missed a question sorry.

I have never seen anybody train a dog behind a computer..To me the handler and the helper must be present to see the dogs reactions and behaviors..I video will miss many parts of this YES NO?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What part did we miss in this video ?? I actually like watching video, and I send video to friends and they send back training ideas all the time. What is so hard about that ?? 

As far as if we missed something, of course, the video was only so long. However, the video did show that some steps were not taken, and the dogs understanding of the exercise was not quite there yet. 

See ? How hard was that. Everyone does things different in training, but the dogs show you pretty clearly. No hands on needed.


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Truth be told....Jeff has seen more then a few videos of Braxton working that were posted on this forum by his previous handler. I know I filmed Braxton more then a few times when he was down here in NC with his previous owner working FR. 

Braxton is on his third handler and I've never seen him look better (physically) - I'm really happy for both Tiffany and Braxton and really do wish them nothing but the best. 

I wish Braxton's breeder (Justin Eimer) would come on here to give a little more detailed history of Braxton's prior owner/handlers .... which of course won't change what I'm sure the helper see's personally in the dog, but I would think knowing the dogs history might help* some* in forming a training plan for both Braxton and Tiffany? I know his first handler was *very heavy handed* (unfairly so) which caused alot of conflict . This conflict could easily be seen with his second handler as well.


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## Clark Niemitalo (Jan 21, 2009)

Im not discrediting the advice giving but the argueing about what is needed and how to do it and who is this and who is that..I liked Jeffs responce..I dont give advice on traing forums threw a video because i dont know the fondation or the dogs temperment or what has been done..i get videos also from friends that have worked with me and that is easier to respond to..

Here is my responce he is unclear of the task he is asked to do and is rewarded for this bad behavior..Now how to fix it would be hard answer cause i dont know what has been done or do I know the dog soft hard real sleeve monkey i dont know.. But I would recommend that you find away to clear up this responce back up work on line close and trust when trust is deserved.

My issue is the attacking of people not the advice given or not i choose not cause that is me..Do dont do that is fine..

Just why all the mother fu%%ing..


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## Mike Burke (Jan 28, 2007)

Nice dog.... U have a good helper in Nate. Nate is good people!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Here is the thing. I am not responding to what the foundation is was or could be. I suggested a bit different way to do the exercise. 

I made fun of you, because there was some auto reaction that I also threw in some comment about what a junk _____ and ______. I don't remember saying that. For all I know, the dog might just settle and clean up on his own. That was not the question as I read it, so I just laid out what I would do. Now if you had something different, and laid that out, NOW two people that are somewhere around the same spot training their dog can read this, and they can try one, and if not a good fit, try the other. If ONE more person laid out a plan, then there are THREE different things they can do.

Many helpers cannot verbalize what they are doing and why for shit. So the person that they are training with feels like they are out of the equation, which many times they should be, and decide to post a video to get back some of that control that for some reason they need. I feel that when a helper or decoy gets to a place where they are doing things on their own, they need to be able to tell the person they are working with what is going on, why they chose this or that way of doing things, and what they see, bla bla bla.

Unfortunately, in many clubs, you go back to talk to the helper whatever, and there is someone else there blabbing about their dog out of turn, and they refuse to acknowledge the fact that the reason the OTHER handler is standing there, is there are things to talk about.

I have had this problem before, many times people come out every Sunday, and EVERY Sunday, they have somewhere to be, and are in a big ass hurry, and they have been allowed to jump up the list. Since everyone in the dog world is so ultra sensitive and retarded, the helper is now in an uncomfortable position. Some can take charge, some don't want to deal, ect ect.

WHat were we talking about ??


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## Tiffany Compton (Oct 7, 2009)

Wow... I didn't expect such conflict on such a simple topic lol. I'm staying out of that pissing match. 

But to everyone else.. 

Braxton will be 6 on May 24th. 

I felt that while yes, I do train with one of the best clubs in the nation, it never hurts to get outside eyes on your dog.. I firmly believe that you need to hear from many people and pick and choose from those opinions/suggestions what will work with your dog. I don't think it's a sin, and shouldn't offend to anyone, to get outside opinions. 

He was clean when working on the line, and on the chance he wasn't, he got checked and came right off.. That doesn't excuse his dirty tactics now that he has been off lead though. If I can manage to find a good e-collar at a decent price then I think we could clean him up quickly. 

He has not done all 6 blinds yet, he did his first "check 5 and into 6" on that video.. 

Lacey>> Thank you for the compliment on Braxton looking well, he's your typical hard to put weight on Mali, but my vet and I are doing our best to at least put a few pounds on him. Unfortunately, as you stated, Braxton has quite a history behind him..


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Tiffany Compton said:


> He has not done all 6 blinds yet, he did his first "check 5 and into 6" on that video..



Don't worry about the blinds. If he can do one, then he can do all six. SEARCH > COME if you teach it like that then you shouldn't have a problem.


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