# Sorry More Raw



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

A while ago I posted some limited info on some very fairly priced very convenient for me to get and use Raw mush. I bought a shit load of it and have been mixing it with other stuff such as turkey necks and chicken backs, and kibble. 
I had limited info on the makeup of the frozen mush, I just knew there were some dead farm animals floating around. So I was looking for the address to go back tomorrow and there is a newer website that has a bit more info. Although it looks to be for big cats and not the “performance dog food” I have been getting. I was just wondering if any of this meant anything to you knowledgeable Raw people.
Jeff I welcome your opinion on this as well I always like when you are involved in Raw and SARs threads. 

http://www.bravopacking.com/main/products.htm 

http://www.bravopacking.com/main/products.htm


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## Sidney Johnsen (May 31, 2009)

Are you feeding the horse meat blend or the beef?

It's always been my understanding that horse meat as the _main_ component of a raw diet is a bad thing.

There was a study done a few years back on animals fed horse meat vs other meat diets and there was a clear 20-25% shorter lifespan in the horse meat fed groups. Something to do with the different levels of phosphorus compounds and some sort of natural steroid(?) that degraded the kidneys of the animals. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of this laying around anywhere, and my internet searching hasn't found me anything solid yet. 

There is also this, which is an unrelated study/problem;


> An outbreak of liver disease which killed more than 30 dogs at Alice Springs was associated with feeding meat from horses, some of which had developed Indigofera linnaei poisoning (Birdsville horse disease).


http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120739656/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

I'll try to dig up a reference for that kidney thing though, too, and get back to you on it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> .... I had limited info on the makeup of the frozen mush, I just knew there were some dead farm animals floating around. So I was looking for the address to go back tomorrow and there is a newer website that has a bit more info. ...


Same problems with it that I pointed out from the old site's info ...


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Sid Plissken said:


> There was a study done a few years back on animals fed horse meat vs other meat diets and there was a clear 20-25% shorter lifespan in the horse meat fed groups. Something to do with the different levels of phosphorus compounds and some sort of natural steroid(?) that degraded the kidneys of the animals. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of this laying around anywhere, and my internet searching hasn't found me anything solid yet.


I have read the same or a similar study. The bottom line was that horse meat is fine as long as bones and vitamin D (cod liver oil) were also fed. I have also heard that horse meat has a lot of heavy metals in it, but I have not seen a study on that.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Same problems with it that I pointed out from the old site's info ...


Got you. So if I use the Beef and Tripe (not listed here) here and there it’s OK understanding this is not an only source of food. I might grab a bunch more meet bones this time. I’ll stick with the beef.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

How are you measuring how much bone they get? Bone is pretty important to keep the calcium/phosphorus ratio in check.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

No measuring, I have two dogs they both weight about 70ibs each. After spending a little bit of time looking into it I decided to keep it simple. I have this Brovo stuff called “performance Dog” and there Tripe. The performance dog is frozen in 5ib bags and the trip is in 2ib bags, one swing of a machete and there cut in half. I also have turkey necks and chicken backs. They also get kibble, the name is Alaskan something or nother. So they might get 2.5 ibs of the performance dog one day and a few chicken backs or turkey necks with some tripe here and there followed by two or three days of kibble. I have no science to the feeding. They probably average about half frozen and half kibble. They get feed once a day and skip a day or two here or there. I don’t mix the kibble with the raw and I give the raw right out of the freezer. The portion sizes depend on how fat or skinny they been looking and that usually depends on how many calories they been burning.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> No measuring, I have two dogs they both weight about 70ibs each.


Your Dutchie looks like he weighs more, did you mean him ?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Your Dutchie looks like he weighs more, did you mean him ?


 
I don’t think he ever went over 75ibs at his fattest. He has been down to 63 at times; he is a bit too skinny then.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Maybe he loses weight from climbing all those ladders :razz:

My dog was 76 lbs at 1 yr on a walkon vets scale, about the same on our home scale but I just about blew a nut everytime I held him in my arms and did the math...but then I'm abit older than you, he still looks skinny.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Dan Long said:


> How are you measuring how much bone they get? Bone is pretty important to keep the calcium/phosphorus ratio in check.


That was my problem (made clear to the O.P.) with that stuff.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> That was my problem (made clear to the O.P.) with that stuff.


Ya it certainly was made clear, and used much less. Connie yelled at me and I am very sensitive. The Frozen pro dog is still used a bit; between my two dogs it took since my last post a few months ago to use about 100 pounds of it. The rest was kibble, necks, backs and occasionally whatever other raw stuff I pick up.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Maybe he loses weight from climbing all those ladders :razz:
> 
> My dog was 76 lbs at 1 yr on a walkon vets scale, about the same on our home scale but I just about blew a nut everytime I held him in my arms and did the math...but then I'm abit older than you, he still looks skinny.


My dog has a different deeper rip cage than most other Dutch shepherds I have seen. There is one other up there that Quinn is related to with the same big rip cage. Quinn has a big head too compared to other Dutch shepherds. Even at the place I got him. I really wanted a 50 pounder but they said this one would be better for suited for what I ultimately wanted (house pet). My dog is fairly agile compared to any other dog I have seen not from “that place” but the 50 pound females can make him look like a stumbling fool up there. I wanted a small non aggressive happy ass looking dog the small females fit this bill better. When he is laying next to my father’s German shepherd that is about 100 pounds he looks real small.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Connie yelled at me and I am very sensitive.



:roll: :roll: 


:lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

We have seen this dog, right?

I don't remember him looking too thin.


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## Jennifer Sider (Oct 8, 2006)

*Re: Sorry More Raw . . . horsemeat is not a good*

choice for more reasons than just nutritional.

Beef cattle supposedly aren't fed/or are weaned off drugs that are detrimental to the health of the consumer (canine or human).

Horse is not bred for human consumption in North America and any drug that has been used will most likely end up in the flesh of the animal and is most likely not safe for us or our dogs to consume.

There is no weaning off period; the animal is purchased at an auction, shipped to Canada or Mexico; processed and shipped to the consumer/packer.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> We have seen this dog, right?
> 
> I don't remember him looking too thin.


He almost always can stand to lose two or three, it’s a fine line. But one or two times after spending a week or two at “that place” he starts to enter the needs to add a few pounds category. Below 65 pounds he looks like he can be on one of those starving dog cans at 7-11. Maybe I should actually weight him sometime. I am just going by what he weighed and looked like on a few trips to the vet for health certificates. Between my normally bony greyhound and him on his light side one day animal control is going to show up at my house. Sometimes he looks like he can lose a few but the sun hits him right or you look from a certain angle and you can see several ribs. I kind of try to judge by what I think are his hip bones. I like to just see those two little bones stick out of the back of his back… or something like that


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I had a hard time keeping my Dane from looking to skinny too. Now that she's almost 3 her metabolism has leveled out and she no longer requires 5lbs of meat a day and still looked like a bag of bones. I have her down to about 3-3.5 now and she's just right, you can see a rib or 2, feel them under her skin and her spine and hips aren't poking out. It's hard when a dog has a waist that's about 20" and a 36" chest!


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