# Santos Caradona's sentence



## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Well, here's how it went down for him, I guess: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/02/D8I054DG2.html

I think the whole situation is bogus and a cluster but that's my speculation. 

Anyway, just wondering for those who may know...what specific rules of engagement are given to MWD handlers about how the dogs can act around people? Is it just stuff that's inferred from things like the Geneva convention or are there specific things (You will not let a dog within 5 feet of an enemy combatant/prisoner) that a handler must learn and adhere to?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've tried three different answers to this post, each one infuriates me more than the other. To that end, I'll just have to agree with you that the 
<<<the whole situation is bogus and a cluster >>>

Since I've not seen the rules of engagement for this particular fracas, I can't say. I can say this is not the first time occurance of this usage of an MWD.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Political Correctness sucks! It's all about CYA, public image, and who can we throw to the press on this one.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

You know, I don't see anything wrong with what he did. If the man was in prison and needed special guarding, I wouldn't have a problem with making the guy not DARE to make a move. But I'm a little biased because of a family member of mine was KIA in Iraq.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Political Correctness sucks! It's all about CYA, public image, and who can we throw to the press on this one.


that right there bob, is what pisses me off most about this. yeah, i can live with the fact that we as a society have grown soft and now take exception to letting our dogs bark at prisoners :roll: . BUT WHY THE HELL ADVERTISE THIS? this should be between the military and this soldier. nobody else needs to know about this kind of stuff. it makes us look weak. heaven forbid our imprisoned enemies be scared of us. oh no not that! i can understand the outrage if they were letting their dogs bite passive prisoners, but barking? c'mon....


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

I guess what I'm wondering is--independent of Sgt. Caradona's case, which my guess is most of us feel is representative of a lot of things wrong with everything but Sgt. Caradona and his dog--what MWDs are told about protocol out of the gate. I recognize that this protocol was changed from very senior administration on down with this recent war, but just wondering.

Maybe Matt Hammond can comment on the protocol itself. And Matt, I'm sorry about your friend.


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

*SGT Santos Cordona*

Let me clear a few things up.......

First off I served with Santos in Germany, Iraq, and Afghan. He is an outstanding soldier, father and friend. He was with me when I lost my partner and friend Donja in Kuwait. He was right there blood on his face helping me get her to the vet to try and save her, right there with me on the Helo pad when the vet looked at me and shook his head no telling me that she didnt make it and right there with me as I cried like a school girl. He is a true friend one that most of us only come across once in a while.

He was put in a situation he could not win. The brass was covering their own butts on this one. These are people that would cut your head off if given a chance and all he did was let his dog bark at them. We did much worse in Afghan I promise you that. 

Santos was on his THIRD deployment all back to back. He had been gone for over three years at the time of this incident. As a handler we where always asked by M.I. to help out with the "interviews" of the detainees. We would use the dogs as a tool to get people to talk. Fear is an awesome motivator and we would use this to our advantage. It worked we got and still get a lot of good Intel this way and if you think this is wrong or barbaric welcome to the real world and the ugly face of war. Now most of the stuff we did I really cant get into but I can say this. As a MWD Handler your ROE (Rules of engagement) are set by the task force commander and or kennel master. We had a pretty open ROE. We could release if we felt threatened, to protect person or property, to displace crowds, and to protect the innocent in the area. Now this is loose version of it but it pretty much sums it up. Of course all bites and/or release would have to be reported to your KM, and on up the chain. When you are a SGT and an officer tells you to do something you do it and ask questions later that is life in the military you may not like it but you do it.

Santos was a very proactive handler a real go getter. He was an infantry man that reclassed into the Military Police Corp and then to K-9. He loved his job and did it well. I was with him in Afghan when things got real hairy and let me tell you when the bullets start flying I cant think of a better person to have next to me. He was fearless in that aspect. Always put the Army and the mission first. Unlike some now a days. He got screwed nothing more nothing less, he was a scape goat a sacrificial lamb for the head shed. I get a lot of emails from tree hugging hippies that dont think I should have his picture on the main page of my website, they dont think I should support a monster like him; it could be bad for business. Well if you think this way then I dont want your business anyway. Santos and Smith are the very reasons we can write and say the things we want, they stand up for and protect our very freedom to speak what is on our minds. So not to support them weather you agree or disagree to me is un-American. 

The 90 days hard labor was just the militarys way of saying hey we cant prove anything and dont have crap on you but since this made national media we need to do something. I was and still am against the decision to embed the media with units during the war. The general public does not need to know what happens in war, they cant handle it. They cant and dont realize that sometimes you have to do ugly things to people. I have seen this first hand and let me tell you not a night goes by that I dont see the faces in my sleep. It sucks but that is what I signed up for. To protect our country and our way of life. The people that are complaining the most are the same people that are complaining about the immigration problem and how we should do something about it but dont like the way we do it. The same people that will fly a American flag upside down at a high school in southern California and have the balls to question the Vietnam Vet that busts through the crowd to take it down and put it back up right. To these people I have this to say. If you dont like it here you can always leave nothing is stopping you. At least John Walker had the balls to leave when he got fed up with the government. In this whole Rant about this I guess what I am trying to say is this Santos was convicted of something that happens all the time, it goes un said and un noticed UNTIL the liberal media gets a hold of it and blows it out of proportion. I am pissed at the way the Army shit on ones of its Heroes, a decorated veteran doing the things that most are afraid to do. I will say this about Santos as you can see in the picture you will never get him to hang his head or feel sorry for himself. 

Santos if you read this keep your head up, you did nothing wrong . You walk proud knowing that you did what you where told, and I know you would do it again if you had to. No regrets!!

Weather you agree with me our not one thing is certain a great injustice was done and now Santoss little girl will have to be with out her daddy for a while. 

Matt Hammond
Quality K-9 Concepts


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

*Re: SGT Santos Cordona*



Matt Hammond said:


> As a MWD Handler your ROE (Rules of engagement) are set by the task force commander and or kennel master. We had a pretty open ROE. We could release if we felt threatened, to protect person or property, to displace crowds, and to protect the innocent in the area. Now this is lose version of it but it pretty much sums it up. Of course all bites and/or release would have to be reported to your KM, and on up the chain. When you are a SGT and an officer tells you to do something you do it and ask a question later that is life in the military you may not like it but you do it.


Thanks Matt, this is what I was wondering.

And thanks for your thoughtful post.


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

As I seat here and typed this I remembered the speech I was given on the day me and a dude named Currier landed in Kandahar. We where told the the USMC ran the STHF (Short term holding facility) and how they would not let the red cross in because the detainess where trying to smuggle coded messages out about the lay out of the camp. I remember Santos getting wind of this and marching right over there with his dog Freida The ugliest little Mal/DSD you had ever seen. I saw him and said our hellos, welcomes, hows the wifes, and then i noticed his dog. I said "man that is the hell is that. He looks like a hihenna (how ever you spell it) I swear that was and is the ugliest, nastiest dog I have ever seen. You can see a picture of him on the main page of my site www.qualityk9concepts.com

Santos was so proud of the dog and took what I said hard. But no matter how you cut it that is one ugly a$$ dog. 

Freida was his first dog out of school I think anyway he thought the dog was a real DonJuan. I have a few other pic I will post of him so you can see what I am talking about.

Anyway Santos will make it he is not the kind of guy that will let someone get the better of him. When all is said and done he is still a handler and he will aways have a spot reserved for him in my company.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for posting that Matt, I'm with you 100%. Feel free to post any photos of either your friend or his hyena.. I mean, dog, in this thread, or in the photo gallery.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

yes, thank you matt for telling the side of the story that the liberal tree hugging media don't care to report. that this guy was and is a hero. it's a shame that the guy who is doing what he is told gets the hammer dropped on him. at least in police work we usually have notice when the political winds change. case law comes down and then we must follow it. not so in the military. some brass want a fall guy and BAM. a guy gets punished for doing what he is told. what a damn shame...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Matt, if you do get a chance to speak with him, let him know that I and everyone that I have told about this situation disagrees with what happened and we thank him for being there for us.

Hyena is the correct spelling


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks Matt for the explanation and for your great service to our country. I come from a military family and I can appreciate everything you said so well.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Well, here's how it went down for him, I guess: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/02/D8I054DG2.html
> 
> I think the whole situation is bogus and a cluster but that's my speculation.
> 
> Anyway, just wondering for those who may know...what specific rules of engagement are given to MWD handlers about how the dogs can act around people? Is it just stuff that's inferred from things like the Geneva convention or are there specific things (You will not let a dog within 5 feet of an enemy combatant/prisoner) that a handler must learn and adhere to?


I hate to say this. My entire life, since birth, has been the military. I believe in service, I believe in defense, I beleive in soldiers. The fact of the matter is that when teh public finds out about certain things that are considered SOP (standard operating procedure) and gets up in arms about it, our gov't immediately blames the soldiers. Under teh Uniform Code of Military Justice they don't have a leg to stand on when this sort of thing happens. It's all political, and we have no choice.

I have watched in disgust as numerous soldiers are convicted of "crimes" against the prisoners of Abu Grahib...it is nothing short of immoral the way soldiers are being offered up as sacrifices...


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## Rick Lewis (May 21, 2006)

*Re: SGT Santos Cordona*



Matt Hammond said:


> Let me clear a few things up.......
> 
> First off I served with Santos in Germany, Iraq, and Afghan. He is an outstanding soldier, father and friend. He was with me when I lost my partner and friend Donja in Kuwait. He was right there blood on his face helping me get her to the vet to try and save her, right there with me on the Helo pad when the vet looked at me and shook his head no telling me that she didnt make it and right there with me as I cried like a school girl. He is a true friend one that most of us only come across once in a while.
> 
> ...


I agree that he was rail roaded but this has nothing to do with your assertion of a so called liberal media and tree hugging hippies. 
At least put the blame where it belongs instead of those ludicrous assertions. 
It was this administration that scapegoated your friend. No one else.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/03/iraq.cardona/index.html


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## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: SGT Santos Cordona*



> I agree that he was rail roaded but this has nothing to do with your assertion of a so called liberal media and tree hugging hippies.
> At least put the blame where it belongs instead of those ludicrous assertions.
> It was this administration that scapegoated your friend. No one else.


[/quote]


GIVE ME A BREAK Rick, whoever gave the ok to send these egobusted media people to a war needs his/her head examined. :twisted: :twisted: 
I TOTALLY agree with Matt, a war is NOT a tea party, nobody wants it but you do like your freedom?? Well.. Hollywood stars and camera men are not going to defend it. I am SICK of the liberal blaming game.
Blame the ****** terrorist who started this crap.
I have been part of a softened/liberalized armed forces that now stands for very little.

Matt and Santos, you are what I call Great Americans. 
You're right, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT.......LEAVE :!: :!: :!: 

Very frustrated and pi**** off Dutchman
Robert


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote: IF YOU DONT LIKE IT.......LEAVE .... End



Let's keep the debate way above that level. 

E. B. Hall:
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
-- The Friends of Voltaire, 1906


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: SGT Santos Cordona*



Robert Blok said:


> > I agree that he was rail roaded but this has nothing to do with your assertion of a so called liberal media and tree hugging hippies.
> > At least put the blame where it belongs instead of those ludicrous assertions.
> > It was this administration that scapegoated your friend. No one else.



GIVE ME A BREAK Rick, whoever gave the ok to send these egobusted media people to a war needs his/her head examined. :twisted: :twisted: 
I TOTALLY agree with Matt, a war is NOT a tea party, nobody wants it but you do like your freedom?? Well.. Hollywood stars and camera men are not going to defend it. I am SICK of the liberal blaming game.
Blame the ****** terrorist who started this crap.
I have been part of a softened/liberalized armed forces that now stands for very little.

Matt and Santos, you are what I call Great Americans. 
You're right, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT.......LEAVE :!: :!: :!: 

Very frustrated and pi**** off Dutchman
Robert[/quote]

HIP HIP HOORAY!!!!! 

i love this dutchman...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: SGT Santos Cordona*



Matt Hammond said:


> ........I am pissed at the way the Army crap on ones of its Heroes, a decorated veteran doing the things that most are afraid to do. I will say this about Santos as you can see in the picture you will never get him to hang his head or feel sorry for himself.
> 
> Santos if you read this keep your head up, you did nothing wrong . You walk proud knowing that you did what you where told, and I know you would do it again if you had to. No regrets!!
> 
> ...


Well said, Matt. Despite your feelings about the injustice and despite your anger about the "brass covering their own butts on this," that doesn't translate into you leaving because you don't like it. 

It translates into you speaking up against something you believe went wrong with the running of our country. I'm thinking that's a true patriot: the person who fights for his country, defends his country, and has the guts to speak up when he feels that his country's Army has taken a wrong turn and "crapped on one of its heroes."

Good for you, that you exercise your right as an American to speak up.


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## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: SGT Santos Cordona*



> Agree, disagree, argue and discuss. But "if you don't see it my way, then leave" is not a discussion.


Sorry Connie, I wasn't referring to LEAVING the forum. I was referring to the constant complaining by people who don't like their country, neighbourhood, government etc etc.
There are lots of things we don't like in live but most of the time we have to make the best of it.
In my books that does not mean undermining your democratically elected government, and more so, the man and woman who are out there fighting for you. I hate this blaming game it's such a defeatist attitude.
Like the PM of Australia said;"If you don't like our language, our religion, our way of life, our culture then don't stay here, move on. 
The pioneers that build this country did just that !!!
Have a wonderful weekend all, make the most of it   
Robert


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: SGT Santos Cordona*



Robert Blok said:


> > Agree, disagree, argue and discuss. But "if you don't see it my way, then leave" is not a discussion.
> 
> 
> Sorry Connie, I wasn't referring to LEAVING the forum. I was referring to the constant complaining by people who don't like their country, neighbourhood, government etc etc.
> ...


I hate the blame game, too. I knew what you meant about "leave."

You and Matt and Tim and everyone on the thread are wonderfully eloquent and passionate, and the forum benefits from these thoughtful and thought-provoking positions, expressed so well.

That's the greatness of the U.S.: we can speak out. Good for those among us who do speak out and exercise that all-important right.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i find my self agreeing w/connie--let's keep the debate on a higher level. my thoughts are completely in line w/Matt: santos has been made a scapegoat. it's shameful--WWAAAAYYY shameful that the military has (let itself? or been forced to by our supreme commander?) become a lapdog to the media.

and why, if our executive branch wants our nation to come across as a tough, kick-a$$ when needed part of this world, are our military personnel fed to the media like sheep to wolves, to *take the blame* for every screw-up that comes as a direct result of *upper management* directives????

oh--i forgot--upper management has nothing to do with the orders the grunts on the line carry out. and that the grunts on the line pay for....

it's all politics--don't forget to vote on tuesday!!! and if you don't vote, don't whine. i'm stopping now, b/c my mother always told me that one doesn't discuss religion or politics in polite company. and i consider this polite company. JUST MAKE SURE YOU VOTE!!!


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

i think what robert was saying basically was respect the office or title. i have many problems with how bill clintion ran this country, but i didn't call for his head when he was in office, because i respected that he was our president and that he was the choice of the people. it irks me (to say the least) to hear people rip our president while he is in office (as it did when clinton was). i have no problem when someone points out what they feel was a bad decision by the president, but personal attacks on the man's character are going too far. he is the top dog of the country you claim to love (if you call yourself a patriot). respect that...

when someone makes a simplistic, poorly thought out, and rash statement like "It was this administration that scapegoated your friend. No one else." it smacks of a personal attack. even if you buy into the idea that the administration "scrapegoated" this man, you must realize there were people outside "the administration" calling for his head (which the liberal media played no small part in). the liberal media has painted a picture of a war crazed, irrational president who was frothing at the mouth to go to war. you don't think this same media would jump at the chance to paint the war in a bad light?

the bottom line is that no prisoner was hurt. the dogs intimidated them. BIG F-ING DEAL. this wasn't the local homeless drunk on a saturday night. these were enemy soldiers who would slit one of our servicemen/women's throats if they got half a chance. whatever they got/get in those prisons wasn't harsh enough....


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

Update....
Santos is back and has been for a while. I am trying to get him to join the board. He is doing good and has a good sence about him. HE is planning on getting out of the Army (well forced out) and will be training and working dogs. HEis about to join the QK9C family.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

He will be welcomed here!


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I just saw this post and I want to say that I commend Santos and his dog. 

It is awful what happened to him and the "higher ups" should have backed him with all they had. 

People who look at Santos and see a person who did wrong, should be ashamed. 
Look at what happened to us over here. Cryin out loud, we lost thousands and then they want to whine because a dog barked at someone.......WHATEVER, they need to find a rock to crawl under. 

(I think his first dog was kinda cute....he he just remember....hyenas can snap a femur bone of a large man in one bite.....:smile: )

Hope he joins the board. Seems like he would be full of great information on training dogs.


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## armando acevedo (May 31, 2007)

*Re: SGT Santos Cordona*

Thanks Matt


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## Chris Duhon (May 24, 2007)

Matt and I both had dogs with us on our deployments, we were both Staff Sergeants during deployments. That means most of the time outside the wire (gate) we are the ones in charge. I was investigated 5X's for shooting engagements (paranoid as hell Brigade commander*Full Bird Colonel*) All my commander cared about was getting the senate to confirm him and pick up his Star. He didn't like me and thought I was a *Cowboy* as he once called me. He suggested I help in the TOC (Tactical Ops Center) and track the ongoing operations. My Battalion Command Sergeant Major went to bat for me everytime, sighting that prior to deployment I won Best squad in the Regiment (thats like an a$$load of squads). I was commended for it and given a certificate and medal that HE (Brigade commander) signed. 

None of the 5 investigations lasted longer than 36hrs before it was found that I was in the right and therefore cleared. My battalion commander (Under the brigade commander) Even gave me a coin in formation one time about an hour after one of the investigations cleared, just to throw $hit up at the Brigade commander. He would bring in CID to investigate, and even one time sent civil affairs back out to an ambush sight (we got ambushed) to find evidence of wrong doing. Christ, he should have been praising us as we lost no one in the ambush, and maneauvered around the enemy element and killed 8 insurgents and killed only 2 civilians. The ambush NOT of our choosing was set up so that when we returned fire we would be shooting right towards an apartment complex. We had no choice, but kept our fires very percise and utilized marksmanship from all of us. Out of an entire and full complex, we lost 2 civilians. It gets NO BETTER than that in war and particularly in that situation ask anyone whos been there. Instead of believing me and my men, and making someone else have to prove to him otherwise, he chose to freak out about the civilans and had me investigated, so I guess if anything came out from it, he could save his ass saying he was already on it. To distance himself from anything that would prevent him from getting his star. 

That whole story just to say that I'm doing better in therapy and can talk about things a little now :smile: LOL! . No just joking, Well sorta  Even with working under a commander like this, even with him our dogs NEVER came up into question. You better believe when we couldn't shoot, I was quick to put the dogs on some meat! rock throwers were the first to get it! They knew we couldn't shoot them for throwing rocks, well not after things were settling down. For about 5mo after the invasion we could shoot rock throwers, because we didn't know if they were throwing grenades or what. When we got the orders to stop shooting rock throwers, the Iraqis knew before we did. But we had dogs, and that is considered non-lethal force  Things were pretty cool in terms of using dogs. Santos just got burned, because things were being blown up on capital hill with the rest of the Abu Gharib "scandal". He and his dog was just caught in the tornado that was already spinning. I bet if none of that other crap was in the spot light they never would have looked at Santos. 

Thats why I love soldiers so much, no matter how much we (they) get $hitted on, and even when everyone has seen the political higher ups leave them out to die by firing squad damn near, ALOT of soldiers still keep signing on for more, because they love what they do, and are willing to take crap even from our own people to do it. Talk about truely understand the meaning, a $hitty job but someone has to do it:-(

~CHRIS DUHON


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