# Ball Possessive



## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

I'm looking for some suggestions for a dog who is very possive of his toys. 
He will out his kong and even certain balls okay. But if we use his favoite ball on a rope. He has to be forced to release it and will growl to the point of letting you know he want let it go with out force. He will actually release any tug, or ball to get to the one with the rope.

Any suggestions on how to get him to out better and should his favorite ball just be taken out of the picture.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Ball Possive*



Patrick Cheatham said:


> I'm looking for some suggestions for a dog who is very possive of his toys.
> He will out his kong and even certain balls okay. But if we use his favoite ball on a rope. He has to be forced to release it and will growl to the point of letting you know he want let it go with out force. He will actually release any tug, or ball to get to the one with the rope.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to get him to out better and should his favorite ball just be taken out of the picture.



Is this a puppy?


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: Ball Possive*

I had out problems with my main guy for a while. What I did was go a step back and made him out for food with less important things, so I know that he knows the command. Then I had to use compulsion again since he would not trade for more important items like a sleeve, but it was easier on us the second time around. In the beginning I would mark him every time he so much as 'thought' about outing, and if he did release even if it took a while he was immediately given a rebite so he learns nothing is being taken from him. So now he outs, still not prettily but he will out.


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## Helan Peters (Oct 9, 2007)

*Re: Ball Possive*

I would just remove that toy and work on the outs with other toys, saves conflict


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

*Re: Ball Possive*

I'd like to see an answer to Connies question. I'd certainly handle the problem differently for an adult dog than a pup.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: Ball Posessive*

Stop ALL movement with the toy. I lock it against my leg. He'll get bored and let go. Mark and reward him with another bite.
It can take a bit of time the first few times till he understands that he will get it back as a reward for letting go.
As with any training, timing is critical.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

*Re: Ball Possive*



David Frost said:


> I'd like to see an answer to Connies question. I'd certainly handle the problem differently for an adult dog than a pup.
> 
> DFrost


 I'm interested in your opinion on how you handle if it was an adult or a puppy.:smile:


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

He is a year and half old I think. He is a Mal that is handled by one of the Police Officers who trains with us sometime. Last night was the first time I saw him. The handler was asking for advice on how to handle this with out raising the stress level of the dog. 

Other than the out the dog seems to do pretty well for him. It did look to me that he was possive of his kong as well but not to the point of a possible bite to the handler. But from what I understand he would like him to out with out having to use a sleeve. Right now he simply shows him the toy he likes most and the dog will go after that dropping what he has at the time. So I'll pass along some of your suggestions.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

What Bob said. Even the slightest movement can trigger the dog to fight for it.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

I have seen a dog like that before. The handler went to using two balls on a rope during training. The dog would out the one ball and he'd throw the second one as a reward. As the dog brought the first ball back he'd show him the other. Worked a treat! Sometimes he'd throw the ball and as the dog came to him, he'd produce the biteroll and start running away from him. The dog would out the ball and go for the biteroll. That worked also.
Depends how fired up the dog is I guess. I like Bob's suggestion too of dropping all movement.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

*Re: Ball Possive*



Lindsay Janes said:


> I'm interested in your opinion on how you handle if it was an adult or a puppy.:smile:


If it was a puppy, I'd do exactly as Bob suggested. Don't fight him for the toy, that merely reinforces the behavior. The release would be marked with purely verbal reinforcement.

With a year and one-half old dog, I'm less patient. Keep in mind, out is a critical item and near immediate results are expected. Being the less patient person I am, I'd go to electronics. The original poster stated the dog does know the command and responds on items of less value. While the dog may well determine the value of an object, it still must learn out is out regardless of the object.

DFrost


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

I guess I should have mention that I suggested using two balls the first night. The dog still would not out either ball with out compulsion. And would only out the kong for a ball. I'll let you know in a couple of days how it goes.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't have a lot of experience in the matter, but I'd say wait him out and immediately mark and let him re-bite the instant he outs, as Bob suggested. Like 10-15 outs with subsequent re-bites for reward for every actual out where he has to give it up. Seems a lot of possession issues, even a toy poodle growling at someone over a bone, stem from insecurity from not getting it back, not necessarily that the dog is so BA and dominant, though that can be too. Will he out a Kong for another Kong? I'd start playing two ball (or two Kong, whatever) with a Kong first or whatever he will out to get him used to the idea and then move up the chain of higher priority toys so that he gets used to "if I out it, I'll still usually get it back and get to keep playing the game." Alternatively, perhaps start out with something lower, like one of those Airdog sticks or a bumper or a flying squirrel, use the Kong to out him out on that, and then out him on the Kong with the ball.


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## Patrick Cheatham (Apr 10, 2006)

Well I said I would post an update when I was able to train with the SO again. Our buddy with the Mal who will not out for him was there. We all are from different counties so its been a while. But his Mal would still not out for him. Dog would out fine for two other handlers. But actually bite the his handler when he reached for the kong after he had to force the dog to out. It was almost as if the dog was expecting a fight from his handler. It was amazing to see the dogs expression change between handlers.


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