# drives,defense,prey,anger,fight,hunt, intent..what?



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

that photo thread of Alice's is interesting and got me thinking a little.

I want to relay something that happened during "training" with my dog and see what people think...it was a training session, but also a "let's see what happens" kinda deal...very informal, no major plans...

Dog was about 2 years old or so. had not worked on any men in a building before.

Dog was muzzled onlead. It was the second time using muzzle for actual work type stuff..dog was wearing muzzle many times during preceding couple months..

unknown agitator, (to the dog) police k9 guy.. using whip came in fairly hard and fast from around a corner...threatening the dog (us, i guess). He then used the whip to sting the dog a few times, dog was what I would call pretty "angry" at that time, straining to get to the dude wherever he moved to, however he moved. At no time that I can remember did he openly show submission or faint fear of the dog, guy was in a teeshirt and jeans, no bite equipment, just the whip in his hand.

Guy then began working his way backwards, but in a forward manner, if that makes any sense, he did not run away. he did keep up with his frontal posturing and verbal threats, and slipped into a door of a building that was about 80 or so feet away from the dog. We had never been to this building or place before, we had not worked with this agitator before.

the entire time the guy was "retreating" (i realize he was "retreating") the dog was straining at the leash and going bonkers to try to get too him.

after he entered the building I waited a couple seconds and then allowed the dog to slowly drag me to the doorway, she was highly determined (in my opinion) to get to that door.

I opened up the door and allowed dog to enter the building, with no announcement type cues, or commands to the dog, just let go of the leash and followed her into the building to observe her.

dog began "searching" for the guy (I think anyhow)... she "swept" the first floor which had quite a few doors and rooms.

she went to the stair cases and started to go up, and the came back down, could hear the nose working quite loudly the entire time, dog was sort of frantic in her searching, seemed pretty determined to find the guy.

The dude was silent the entire time he said, I didnt hear him at all, I did not know where he was, and I did not say anything to the dog in regards of commands or encouragement..

Dog caught a whiff of something on back hallway, got to the basement stairwell and went down the stairs quickly, I stood at the top of stairs after she went down.

after a short time (a minute or less) I heard a little commotion, and a guy screaming, and a good bit of noise coming from the dog.

I got down there, and followed the noise, had to turn back a time or two to find my way to them..The basement was was pretty complicated, with rooms and hallways and stuff.

I found the dog and the guy in a really dark slender utility hallway, they were in the back at the dead end.

guy was on the ground putting up a little struggle hitting the dog some, and using a cardboard box to try to push her off and as a "distraction". Once I got a little closer he curled up and submitted to the dog.

The dogs hair was slightly hackled and and she was very determined to keep the muzzle on him, in what I would consider a very real attempt to bite the guy, dog was pretty vocal..even after the guy turtled up.. 

I seem to remember the dog becoming more vocal as time ticked by and more so when dog knew I was present and approached..dog continued screaming/barking/growling (whatever) towards the guy, as I dragged her back out of the hallway, she appeared to me to be what I would call "pissed off".

The guy had been in the building before, used it a few times..we had not...dude said he ran around in there went half way up the stairs, and went into the basement finally and sought out the darkest, most hidden, but still accessible place, which was that utility hallway.

he said he waited silently for the dog to find him. and that he saw the dog come into the hallway, searching for him. 

He said the dog eventually saw him there cowered in a corner of boxes holding a cardboard box. He told me that once the dog saw him the dog made some vocalizations and ran to him the last half of the hallway, and launched at him. he tried to deter dog from engaging, but did finally go to ground with the dog and put up a small "fight", after which he curled up and I dragged dog off of him.

ok aside from a couple things I can think of that would have made this a more effective "training"session, or discussing what could have or should have been done.. I would like other people opinions about what went down that day, in the dogs head, I am pretty confident that the dog would have engaged if not in muzzle that day, after seeing what I saw. I can give more background info if needed.

motivations/drives/"emotions"/intent/nerves/frustration/intent? stuff like that.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Joby Becker said:


> that photo thread of Alice's is interesting and got me thinking a little.
> 
> I want to relay something that happened during "training" with my dog and see what people think...it was a training session, but also a "let's see what happens" kinda deal...very informal, no major plans...
> 
> ...



It's a good dog, period. Who cares what kept her in the fight, searching the guy, etc.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Tiago Fontes said:


> It's a good dog, period. Who cares what kept her in the fight, searching the guy, etc.


yeah I guess, who cares...thought it might make for a good conversation.

in my thinking, there were definite angry and retaliatory motivations, without trying to use too much "anthropomorphization".

I know that some people may think differently.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

People say dogs don't hold grudges, I disagree.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Joby Becker said:


> yeah I guess, who cares...thought it might make for a good conversation.
> 
> in my thinking, there were definite angry and retaliatory motivations, without trying to use too much "anthropomorphization".
> 
> I know that some people may think differently.



I hope my answer didnt come as harsh. That wasnt how I meant it.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Tiago Fontes said:


> I hope my answer didnt come as harsh. That wasnt how I meant it.


Not at all Tiago...


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