# I would pay dearly for this bitch............



## Drew Peirce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agwqet8mhjo


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## Joby Becker

have you made an offer? I was just looking at their videos earlier today..this one escaped me, looks better than all of their other videos I watched...even of there "executive" dogs, and their "anti-terrorist" dogs...


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## Drew Peirce

It's not something I would seriously pursue due to the parties involved, still, that is one seriously impressive bitch, looks like a big mal GSD cross, too bad she was born into those hands.


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## Timothy Saunders

not that impressed. she seemed decent.


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## Drew Peirce

by all means then, show me one that really impresses you, would love to see your take on impressive.........


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## Thomas Barriano

Joby Becker said:


> have you made an offer? I was just looking at their videos earlier today..this one escaped me, looks better than all of their other videos I watched...even of there "executive" dogs, and their "anti-terrorist" dogs...


Joby,

They're in Southern Colorado now. I trained a couple of times with the owner when they were outside of Colorado Springs. He didn't come out too often cause we were training
"sport dogs" and his were "real"?
Maybe they do a lot of training in Slovenia, but I wasn't overly with the dogs or the training, I saw here. Over hyped, over priced. The Colorado version of Baden K9


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## Al Curbow

Cool dog, I was impressed.


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## Chris McDonald

This guy has a goofy website with some pretty bad videos I remember seeing in the past. This video has been up for a while. It’s a fun video to watch im surprised it doesn’t have a few more views.


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## jack van strien

Drew,
i would not make an offer based on a video.Take a good dog and let it bite and bite only,dont put in any rules or obedience and certainly no out pressure,most dogs will look like this.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Buy the bitch already. At least find out if they are selling.


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## Drew Peirce

The vid is like a year and a half old I'd prolly be pissin in the wind, plus with goons like that for trainers she's most likely damaged goods by now wouldnt you think?


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## Eric Shearer

If not soon to be if these CQB K-9 guys get a hold of her... some pretty bad training ... especially for a guy that is putting out there lik he is professional.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You would still have the genetics.


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## Drew Peirce

valid point ^


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## jack van strien

Jeff,are you kidding?


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## Jerry Cudahy

#-o


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## Martine Loots

My idea of an impressive female would be more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AM1fkC-as

Moreover I know what she endures during training... the girl's got "balls" for sure


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## Dominique Domogala

Martine Loots said:


> My idea of an impressive female would be more like this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AM1fkC-as
> 
> Moreover I know what she endures during training... the girl's got "balls" for sure


yes , this is a very though female . i like her very much 

also a bit of a naughty female (enig) 

volgens rudy zijn favoriete meisje :mrgreen:


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## Megan Bays

Martine Loots said:


> My idea of an impressive female would be more like this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AM1fkC-as
> 
> Moreover I know what she endures during training... the girl's got "balls" for sure


Very impressive looking female, thanks for sharing Martine!


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## Amanda Caldron

I agree I wouldn't say the bitch in the first video was "impressive" but the one in the 2nd video definately has nice pushing grips, good entry, and great nerve. You have to take all the "training" into consideration though. For purchasing purposes I usually want a raw dog no training to see what it will really be about. I have never purchased a "trained" dog so wouldn't know if I'd test them the same or not. I probably would but I think I'd have to really trust the seller and their training methods. Someone who would be honest with me about the weaker points in training, etc. so I can view each area for the dog and the training. liked both the videos thanks for sharing


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## Alice Bezemer

bitch in OP vid looks energetic, dont however confuse energetic with quality....she looks ok but impressive would be to see her work in real life so you can judge for yourself....all the vid shows is that she likes to bite....dont show sweet fk all on anything else....dont mean she has nerve or balls at all, just that shes got teeth and knows how to use them.....could be a strong threat will run her of at the first chance she gets...
cant see that by watching a vid


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## Thomas Barriano

*Ishtar*



Martine Loots said:


> My idea of an impressive female would be more like this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AM1fkC-as
> 
> Moreover I know what she endures during training... the girl's got "balls" for sure



Lousy movie (Dustin Hoffman version) Great Bitch 
You NVBK Players make great obstacles and accessories


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## Alice Bezemer

Martine Loots said:


> My idea of an impressive female would be more like this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AM1fkC-as
> 
> Moreover I know what she endures during training... the girl's got "balls" for sure



nice looking dog there Martine....good full bite on her! 

I would agree with you on the impressive, this one shows a lot more of the whole range that we look for in a dog, not just the bite in itself


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## Debbie Skinner

Martine Loots said:


> My idea of an impressive female would be more like this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4AM1fkC-as
> 
> Moreover I know what she endures during training... the girl's got "balls" for sure



NICE! =D>=D>


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Jeff,are you kidding?

No. Drew said he liked that bitch a lot, and was worried about the people that had her. I think that if he thinks a lot of her, that he should try and get her.

Then Martine cheats and throws up Ishtar, ( who I would love to have ) who has had much better training.


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## Drew Peirce

No question ishtar is impressive also, but in a profoundly different way, just further evidence that sport and street will always be in different universes from each other.
The sport folk can see the strongest dog imaginable working in totally unfamiliar environments that they've never seen before and kicking ass but until they've seen them on a field with props and obedience and judges and "CONTROL" exercises well then they aint really shit.
On the other side the LE trainer looks at the second video and see's a bitch who excels at the excercises she's been taught all of her life in the exact environment they've always been taught with the same distractions always used in that venue of competition, in this case NVBK.
So where the sport folk need to see the dog on the field in a competition setting to be impressed the LE guy needs to see it somewhere it's never been before and more likely wont be comfortable with and up against a decoy thats putting up way more of a fight than tapping it on the back with the same little training stick thats been used on it since it was a pup.

My mistake for posting it, forgot where I was, wont happen again.........


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Just get the bitch. Listen to what people say, and if you have a different opinion, remember how many people went to war to protect that opinion. : )


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## Martine Loots

Drew Peirce said:


> No question ishtar is impressive also, but in a profoundly different way, just further evidence that sport and street will always be in different universes from each other.
> The sport folk can see the strongest dog imaginable working in totally unfamiliar environments that they've never seen before and kicking ass but until they've seen them on a field with props and obedience and judges and "CONTROL" exercises well then they aint really shit.
> On the other side the LE trainer looks at the second video and* see's a bitch who excels at the excercises she's been taught all of her life in the exact environment they've always been taught with the same distractions always used in that venue of competition,* in this case NVBK.
> So where the sport folk need to see the dog on the field in a competition setting to be impressed the LE guy needs to see it somewhere it's never been before and more likely wont be comfortable with and up against a decoy thats putting up way more of a fight than tapping it on the back with the same little training stick thats been used on it since it was a pup.
> 
> My mistake for posting it, forgot where I was, wont happen again.........


This female was working on a field where she had never been before, with distractions that had been built the day before so they were new to the dog too and they weren't the kind of distractions you see in an every week's trial. A lot of dogs had problems with that first attack (to have a better idea of the attack, look at this video. There is more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhfj89FpJnA )
The female bites civil without hesitation, in buildings or slippery floors and under extreme pressure (her handler sells personal protection dogs and does this kind of work all the time.

About the female in the first video this is my opinion. I'm not going to judge her grip because compared to what I like it is lousy but then again for the work she does the quality of the grip isn't important.
I'm not going to judge the environmental stress either because the video doesn't say anything about that. The dog has probably done the same exercises on the same spot numerous times.
I'm not going to judge pressure from the decoy either because there is none.
Very well possible that the female is strong, but that video doesn't prove a thing. As Alice already said, the only thing I see there is a dog that likes to work and likes to bite.


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## Drew Peirce

roger that


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## Ricardo Ashton

Determined, dedicated bite,good clean out and good focus during distractions on the bitch in the 2nd video. The first video shows only that the dog truly enjoys being in fight drive, but very little else. In the 1st vid the dog has teeth, knows how to use them & enjoys using them to no end, but she seems overly willing to go @ anything that moves. And thats not necessarily a good thing. JMO


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## Martine Loots

Drew Peirce said:


> the *LE *trainer


I know I'm blonde...but what does "LE" stand for?


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## Debbie Skinner

I didn't watch the first video..my bad because I saw GSD/Mal-X and then saw Martine's video of a Mal and went there first. Now I watched it. It's hard for me to learn a lot from watching. It is filmed from farther away and no zooming in so hard to see the dog's expression during the work. The handler grabbing the tail made her release..that's about the handler relationship possibly as our dogs are comfortable with me picking them up and touching them during biting. She seems very enthusiastic. How do we know this is all strange surroundings and new to her? Maybe they train together there regularly? If she is in Colorado, the best thing is to have someone you trust work her or for you to do it if you can see her in person. I'd like to see more such as how she handles control, outing, corrections, hunt drive, jumping. With the control how are her entries, grips, attitude. Then you know more. 

The NVBK scenarios and distractions are always changing. You can try to train for 'everything' but like in life there will always be 'surprises' and then it depends on the size of motor in the dog to get him/her through imo.


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## Alice Bezemer

Martine Loots said:


> This female was working on a field where she had never been before, with distractions that had been built the day before so they were new to the dog too and they weren't the kind of distractions you see in an every week's trial. A lot of dogs had problems with that first attack (to have a better idea of the attack, look at this video. There is more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhfj89FpJnA )
> The female bites civil without hesitation, in buildings or slippery floors and under extreme pressure (her handler sells personal protection dogs and does this kind of work all the time.
> 
> About the female in the first video this is my opinion. I'm not going to judge her grip because compared to what I like it is lousy but then again for the work she does the quality of the grip isn't important.
> I'm not going to judge the environmental stress either because the video doesn't say anything about that. The dog has probably done the same exercises on the same spot numerous times.
> I'm not going to judge pressure from the decoy either because there is none.
> Very well possible that the female is strong, but that video doesn't prove a thing. As Alice already said, the only thing I see there is a dog that likes to work and likes to bite.


as impressive as the video might appear it doesnt tell you anything more then the fact that the dog is energetic  do I like what I see ? hell yes...she looks nice and has an air about her of certainty and selfconfidence...do i trust what my eyes tell me tho ? hell nooooo.....its a moment in time of one particular exersize being the biting of the decoy....what does this tell me or you for that matter drew ? not much if youre honest  it tells us she has teeth and knows how to use them in a for her probably well known environment....I can post tons of video's of any dog and make them look friggin awesome when for a fact I know that they are not....its all about what im willing to show on the video 

Most people here look at the bigger picture out there...Im a simple person and I look at it like this: My dog on a trial day gets perhaps a total of 5% bitework and 95% OB and other exersizes so even tho I like to see my dog take a decoy down, its not the end all when it comes to a good dog...a good dog doesnt only bite and look impressive at a certain moment in time...its impressive all allong the line of every exersize 

Dont put all your eggs in one basket when looking at this video coze then you thread name might actualy become that you would PAY DEARLY for this bitch and not in a very good way!


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Martine Loots said:


> I know I'm blonde...but what does "LE" stand for?


LE= law enforcement
LEO= law enforcement officer

dus overheid, of overheidsmedewerker, hier wordt meestal politie of militair bedoeld.


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## Martine Loots

Ricardo Ashton said:


> Determined, dedicated bite,*good clean out* and good focus during distractions on the bitch in the 2nd video.



:lol::lol::lol: Have you actually watched the out of the first attack?
She's a very nice female but she doesn't often score high because most of the time she doesn't out at all and is too wild on the object guard (too soon, no out...)
During training her outs are very clean but she knows very well that the handler isn't allowed to punish during a trial...


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## Drew Peirce

Debbie, I didnt really study it closely enough to catch that, now that I have, my enthusiasm has waned signifigantly, great eye.

Alice I hear ya


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## Ricardo Ashton

Martine Loots said:


> :lol::lol::lol: Have you actually watched the out of the first attack?
> She's a very nice female but she doesn't often score high because most of the time she doesn't out at all and is too wild on the object guard (too soon, no out...)
> During training her outs are very clean but she knows very well that the handler isn't allowed to punish during a trial...


In my opinion, an out is an instruction to the dog to release, that's it. Not a suggestion or request, so that means on the first out, the dog must release, or at the very least acknowledge the command. All i saw is a dog unwillingly(but in a somewhat timely fashion) follow a basic command,which shows a very mild form of disrespect to the handler, but nothing too serious to warrant excessive concern yet. She seems focused in her search, but just a little too enthusiastic for my taste. I could be wrong, but this i what I perceived & is only my opinion. 

Do you know if she ever did work on a hidden sleeve? I'd like to see a vid of that if she ever did.


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## Drew Peirce

Thank you ladies, for your piercing insight on this, it's most appreciated, in an attempt to save face I will say that when I posted this last night, the drink had already been flowing for several hours possibly clouding my perception of the video just a wee bit


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## Martine Loots

Ricardo Ashton said:


> In my opinion, an out is an instruction to the dog to release, that's it. Not a suggestion or request, so that means on the first out, the dog must release, or at the very least acknowledge the command. All i saw is a dog unwillingly(but in a somewhat timely fashion) follow a basic command,which shows a very mild form of disrespect to the handler, but nothing too serious to warrant excessive concern yet. She seems focused in her search, but just a little too enthusiastic for my taste. I could be wrong, but this i what I perceived & is only my opinion.
> 
> Do you know if she ever did work on a hidden sleeve? I'd like to see a vid of that if she ever did.


Are you talking about the first video? I guess I misunderstood then. Thought you were talking about the second one.


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## James Degale

Martine Loots said:


> Moreover I know what she endures during training... *the girl's got "balls" for sure *


I like them too. Girls with balls. The internet is a wonderful thing. ;-)

What's her pedigree Martine?


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## Martine Loots

James Degale said:


> I like them too. Girls with balls. The internet is a wonderful thing. ;-)
> 
> What's her pedigree Martine?


She's an Enig daughter. Mother line I'd have to check. Have it written down somewhere but don't know it by heart.


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## Drew Peirce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z1aWhUqj78 

like I said, apples and oranges


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## Al Curbow

Drew, you've been estrogenitically corrected, lol. 

That's how it works here, look at a video and see a dog and think "Hmmmm nice dog" with a few assumptions made ( mine was that the people probably don't train at a castle everyday), theeennn you get corrected by people also making their own assumptions on the video, the dog and the training, AND then correcting you about your assumptions, of course their assumptions are perfectly clear and yours aren't. LOL

The dog world is a funny place!


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## Debbie Skinner

Martine Loots said:


> She's an Enig daughter. Mother line I'd have to check. Have it written down somewhere but don't know it by heart.


I was interested in importing Enig a couple years ago, but it turned out that the guy selling him wasn't the owner..was a scammer. :-( I didn't lose anything, but time and some phone calls. Always was interested in that dog after seeing a few nice ones out of him. Was told his offspring were not consistent, but I want to try one sometime.


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## Drew Peirce

too true Al, too true....


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## Timothy Saunders

Al Curbow said:


> Drew, you've been estrogenitically corrected, lol.
> 
> That's how it works here, look at a video and see a dog and think "Hmmmm nice dog" with a few assumptions made ( mine was that the people probably don't train at a castle everyday), theeennn you get corrected by people also making their own assumptions on the video, the dog and the training, AND then correcting you about your assumptions, of course their assumptions are perfectly clear and yours aren't. LOL
> 
> The dog world is a funny place!


I tried to tell him Al in the beginning but he wouldn't listen.


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## Christopher Jones

I like the second female, she looks good and appears to have great nerve. I would own her. First female there is just not enough to judge her by. The whole letting go when the decoy pulled the tail was weird, as was training the out this way. 
On looking at that video its not enough for me to "pay dearly" for her. 
I thought that maybe Drew knew the female or had seen more of her so he wasnt going going off that video alone.


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## Christopher Jones

jack van strien said:


> Drew,
> i would not make an offer based on a video.Take a good dog and let it bite and bite only,dont put in any rules or obedience and certainly no out pressure,most dogs will look like this.


Nowdays with all the positive training methods being used even average dogs still look good with Ob and the out trained. I dont look to this as a measure of a dog.


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## Martine Loots

Al Curbow said:


> Drew, you've been estrogenitically corrected, lol.
> 
> That's how it works here, look at a video and see a dog and think "Hmmmm nice dog" with a few assumptions made ( *mine was that the people probably don't train at a castle everyday*), theeennn you get corrected by people also making their own assumptions on the video, the dog and the training, AND then correcting you about your assumptions, of course their assumptions are perfectly clear and yours aren't. LOL
> 
> The dog world is a funny place!


Mmmm, you'd be surprised what people do to give their dog experience and that's exactly why it's almost impossible to judge a dog if you don't know him from many trainings.

With a video it's even more tricky. I'd assume that it could very well be that they did the exrecises they wanted to film a few times and then took the best version. Sometimes it's good from the very first time but then again you can't prove that is you weren't there when it was filmed and even then you have to be sure that it is the first time she comes there.

If I want to buy a dog, then I'd go and watch a number of training sessions (without making clear that I'm interested in the dog) to get a better view on the quality of the dpg.
If the decision to buy or not to buy has to be made, I have to see the dog work in a neutral environment, on my own decoy and doing the things I want him to do. And even then buying an adult dog always stays a lottery...


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## Martine Loots

sorry double post


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## Gillian Schuler

I know I've told this before...

But, the breeder of our dogs in Germany was interested to know to what sort of criteria the Bavarian Anti-Terror Unit was breeding.

He spoke to a number of the trainers and handlers and on one he noticed that he had a thumb missing. "Where did your thumb go to?" he asked. The handler pointed to the dog and said "it went into his stomach."

This information is genuinely from hand to mouth. I wonder how many handlers could handle these dogs. It's ok to say you would pay the earth for an anti-terror trained dog - it's another to train it yourself!!

As far as I know they are never let out of their kennels (with run, of course) unless on duty.

To get the dogs to this level I assume breeding, "environment" :roll: and specific training (that you will *never* see on a public video) are required.


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## Wawashkashi Tashi

Drew Peirce said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agwqet8mhjo


Just curious what you found impressive about her, other than her drive? :-k


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## James Degale

Lots I like about the dog from the video. But as others say, nobody buys a dog based on a short video, just like nobody marries after the first date, usually anyway.


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## Martine Loots

Gillian Schuler said:


> I know I've told this before...
> 
> But, the breeder of our dogs in Germany was interested to know to what sort of criteria the Bavarian Anti-Terror Unit was breeding.
> 
> *He spoke to a number of the trainers and handlers and on one he noticed that he had a thumb missing. "Where did your thumb go to?" he asked. The handler pointed to the dog and said "it went into his stomach."*
> 
> This information is genuinely from hand to mouth. I wonder how many handlers could handle these dogs. It's ok to say you would pay the earth for an anti-terror trained dog - it's another to train it yourself!!
> 
> As far as I know they are never let out of their kennels (with run, of course) unless on duty.
> 
> To get the dogs to this level I assume breeding, "environment" :roll: and specific training (that you will *never* see on a public video) are required.


Unfortunately those things happen. I know quite a few handlers with missing fingers. 
It doesn't take much for a dog to bite off a finger.


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## kristin tresidder

Drew Peirce said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agwqet8mhjo


and you would too. they definitely don't give their dogs away over there....
estrogen aside, i liked watching her work too, and i've only had coffee today! lol


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## Gillian Schuler

Martine Loots said:


> Unfortunately those things happen. I know quite a few handlers with missing fingers.
> It doesn't take much for a dog to bite off a finger.


You mean that's why we never say "thumbs up" any more?


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## Mike Scheiber

Martine Loots said:


> Unfortunately those things happen. I know quite a few handlers with missing fingers.
> It doesn't take much for a dog to bite off a finger.


Club members boy friend lost one stacking her GSD for a promo photo


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## Thomas Barriano

Mike Scheiber said:


> Club members boy friend lost one stacking her GSD for a promo photo


Must have been a show line GSD. Nobody would want to stack a working GSD


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## Gillian Schuler

How many on here have lost fingers / thumbs to their dogs?


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## Debbie Skinner

Gillian Schuler said:


> How many on here have lost fingers / thumbs to their dogs?


just a broken hand with steel rods sticking out for a some weeks to put the knuckle back together. Physical therapy was way more painful that the bite. #-o Brevet Beauceron..not a malinois. Dog was "off" though i.e. screw loose.


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## Mike Scheiber

Thomas Barriano said:


> Must have been a show line GSD. Nobody would want to stack a working GSD


Nope she bought a page in USA to campaign the dog he ended up chewing her up really bad too sent him back to the broker he became a fence dog for the border patrol


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## Christopher Smith

Al Curbow said:


> Drew, you've been estrogenitically corrected, lol.
> 
> That's how it works here, look at a video and see a dog and think "Hmmmm nice dog" with a few assumptions made ( mine was that the people probably don't train at a castle everyday), theeennn you get corrected by people also making their own assumptions on the video, the dog and the training, AND then correcting you about your assumptions, of course their assumptions are perfectly clear and yours aren't. LOL
> 
> The dog world is a funny place!


Great post Al!!!!


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## Christopher Smith

Gillian Schuler said:


> I know I've told this before...
> 
> But, the breeder of our dogs in Germany was interested to know to what sort of criteria the Bavarian Anti-Terror Unit was breeding.
> 
> He spoke to a number of the trainers and handlers and on one he noticed that he had a thumb missing. "Where did your thumb go to?" he asked. The handler pointed to the dog and said "it went into his stomach."
> 
> This information is genuinely from hand to mouth. I wonder how many handlers could handle these dogs.


It's obvious by the missing fingers that they can't handle these dogs either!:lol:

Every scar from a dog an idiot mark. It screams out to the world "I screwed up real bad".


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## Alice Bezemer

Gillian Schuler said:


> How many on here have lost fingers / thumbs to their dogs?


not lost any but dislocated and broken a few tho :lol: 

it serves as a good reminder to me to never again grab the dog on the chain of the prong when its on top of another dog hes trying to dismember...he turned around and basicly went nuts on me and kept turning and turning while my fingers were still in the chain so he broke 2 and dislocated 3 of my fingers on my right hand.


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## Gillian Schuler

I guess I'd agree with you if you have the pup from 6-8 weeks. A few colleagues of mine experienced frustration bites but never a "thumb off".

However, I've not had enough dogs to judge. But, should I ever lose a thumb or finger to one of my dogs, their "Abgang" is assured!


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## Gillian Schuler

Alice Bezemer said:


> not lost any but dislocated and broken a few tho :lol:
> 
> it serves as a good reminder to me to never again grab the dog on the chain of the prong when its on top of another dog hes trying to dismember...he turned around and basicly went nuts on me and kept turning and turning while my fingers were still in the chain so he broke 2 and dislocated 3 of my fingers on my right hand.


Ton's (husband) dog got loose and went hell for leather for mine in Schutzdienst. He jumped out of the car, knocked Toni down and went for Buster. Luckily I had B on a long lead and the younger one just held on to his cheek. Toni tried to separate them and was bitten.

Handler's fault.


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## Mike Scheiber

Christopher Smith said:


> It's obvious by the missing fingers that they can't handle these dogs either!:lol:
> 
> Every scar from a dog an idiot mark. It screams out to the world "I screwed up real bad".


Not every dog, the dog I was referring to did in fact have some screws loose wasn't hard for any of us to see why he came to the US including the guy that brought him in








Its a odd story about the event/events that happened when he chewed up the handler


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## Laura Bollschweiler

Alice Bezemer said:


> he turned around and basicly went nuts on me and kept turning and turning while my fingers were still in the chain so he broke 2 and dislocated 3 of my fingers on my right hand.


Eww, I saw that happen to an agility person with a rescue border collie who freaked out when she realized her owner wasn't the one holding the collar. She spun and spun and the woman's middle finger was broken in several places. 



Christopher Smith said:


> Every scar from a dog an idiot mark. It screams out to the world "I screwed up real bad".


Can't agree with this statement unless you're including "I screwed up by buying a dog with a screw loose"


Laura


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## Debbie Skinner

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Eww, I saw that happen to an agility person with a rescue border collie who freaked out when she realized her owner wasn't the one holding the collar. She spun and spun and the woman's middle finger was broken in several places.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't agree with this statement unless you're including "I screwed up by buying a dog with a screw loose"
> 
> 
> Laura


I'll agree with your quote..should of off'd the one I imported when I saw the "signs" and not risked it. It was the littermate to my beloved male who had just been overdosed by a vet and brain-damaged so I kept pretending the imported brother would turn out like the good brother. However, it was like Cain and Able. Never do that again.


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## Christopher Jones

Zico vd Berlex Hoeve took the top of his old owners finger off here in Oz. But Zico was a good dog.


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## Debbie Skinner

Christopher Jones said:


> Zico vd Berlex Hoeve took the top of his old owners finger off here in Oz. But Zico was a good dog.


There's many excellent dogs that have bitten their owners up a bit.


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## Laura Bollschweiler

Debbie Skinner said:


> There's many excellent dogs that have bitten their owners up a bit.


And that's what scares the crap out of me in this sport. I don't mind getting dinged up anywhere but my hands. I need all my fingers to work so even an accidental bonk of a tooth into my hand could mean I'm out of work for a period of time. Or worse, forever.

Laura


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## Alice Bezemer

If you train with dogs, specialy dogs that are required to bite for that training then at some point you will get bit...its a simple fact of life you deal with...it can happen by accident or on purpose and has sweet fu,ck all to do with the handler being a twit or the dog being messed in the head...its called training...

*quote:  Every scar from a dog an idiot mark. It screams out to the world "I screwed up real bad".


*now that is without a doubt the biggest bullshit remark I have ever witnessed, then again coming from the person who made it....id expect nothing else.


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## Alice Bezemer

Gillian Schuler said:


> Ton's (husband) dog got loose and went hell for leather for mine in Schutzdienst. He jumped out of the car, knocked Toni down and went for Buster. Luckily I had B on a long lead and the younger one just held on to his cheek. Toni tried to separate them and was bitten.
> 
> Handler's fault.



same problem here....should have just used a pole or something to hit the ****ers and get them apart but it never entered my mind at that point....other dog was halfway to heaven so i just grabbed the chain and started kicking my dog untill it eventualy collapsed which unfortunatly he didnt do before breaking my fingers :lol:

was nothing wrong with my dog mentaly at all, the other guy had a habbit of letting his dog go long on the leash when walking passed others who were on the field with their dog, his dog used to bark and bite at all the dogs and the owner thought that was funny and cool untill the his dog janked the leash and he got enough room to get near my dog and mine just grabbed and took a few bits of skin and then got hold and started choking the other dog. at that point you dont think but just act...other dog did survive tho...guy left for another club with his dog after it recovered.


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## Debbie Skinner

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> And that's what scares the crap out of me in this sport. I don't mind getting dinged up anywhere but my hands. I need all my fingers to work so even an accidental bonk of a tooth into my hand could mean I'm out of work for a period of time. Or worse, forever.
> 
> Laura


If it makes you feel better, I've been hurt more training horses. When you make a mistake with a horse, well they are just so much bigger and it can be a real disaster for the human. Imagine getting tangled up in rigging or lead, etc. when a horse buggers out #-o Or, getting under one and taking a hoof! Been there..done that.


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## Maren Bell Jones

True enough with the horses. One of the third years recently got kicked right in the face by her own horse. She's still got nerve damage and vision problems even after it's mostly been healed. Hopefully it won't affect her ability to practice. This is one of the reasons I don't want to work on horses. At least cattle are usually in a chute when you work them, though you can still crunch fingers easily enough and chutes can fail...anyways, another reason I think I'll leave the decoying up to the others. :-D


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## Christopher Smith

Alice Bezemer said:


> If you train with dogs, specialy dogs that are required to bite for that training then at some point you will get bit...its a simple fact of life you deal with...it can happen by accident or on purpose and has sweet fu,ck all to do with the handler being a twit or the dog being messed in the head...its called training...
> 
> *quote:  Every scar from a dog an idiot mark. It screams out to the world "I screwed up real bad".
> 
> 
> *now that is without a doubt the biggest bullshit remark I have ever witnessed, then again coming from the person who made it....id expect nothing else.


Obviously said from a twit that gets bit a lot. No... actually twits like you usually get other people bit :lol: 

Accidents do happen but most can be avoided. Every time a person get's bitten they need to look at how they caused it and how the situation could be avoided. Yes if you bought a crazy ass dog and it bit off your finger. YOU SCREWED UP! Shouldn't of bought that shit. If you push a dog to the point that he feels he needs to protect himself. YOU SCREWED UP!


A while back I read one of the smartest post that I have ever read on this board. If memory serves me correctly, a bunch of jackasses on this board were dick measuring about how they could handle tough dogs. :roll: Mike Suttle came on and told a frank and honest story about a dog that he didn't want to confront or lose his finger to and said it was much easier and safer to to simply lure the dog with food (toy?). It avoided the bullshit and kept his digit.


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## Christopher Smith

Alice Bezemer said:


> same problem here....should have just used a pole or something to hit the ****ers and get them apart but it never entered my mind at that point....other dog was halfway to heaven so i just grabbed the chain and started kicking my dog untill it eventualy collapsed which unfortunatly he didnt do before breaking my fingers :lol:
> 
> was nothing wrong with my dog mentaly at all, the other guy had a habbit ......


And that's where you need to look in the mirror. This guy had a *HABIT *of creating a dangerous situation and you knew it. Yet you put yourself and your dog in that situation. :-k


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## Christopher Smith

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Can't agree with this statement unless you're including "I screwed up by buying a dog with a screw loose"
> 
> 
> Laura


Yes I'm including that. I'm also talking about doing things without taking proper precautions. Do you remember that showline GSD we saw trialing a couple of weeks ago? Would you share the field with that dog and handler on a training night? :razz:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Ok Smith. Name one tough dominant SOB dog you have ever owned. Since you are so convinced that you are right, you must be able to name a few.


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## Alice Bezemer

Christopher Smith said:


> Obviously said from a twit that gets bit a lot. No... actually twits like you usually get other people bit :lol:
> 
> Accidents do happen but most can be avoided. Every time a person get's bitten they need to look at how they caused it and how the situation could be avoided. Yes if you bought a crazy ass dog and it bit off your finger. YOU SCREWED UP! Shouldn't of bought that shit. If you push a dog to the point that he feels he needs to protect himself. YOU SCREWED UP!
> 
> 
> A while back I read one of the smartest post that I have ever read on this board. If memory serves me correctly, a bunch of jackasses on this board were dick measuring about how they could handle tough dogs. :roll: Mike Suttle came on and told a frank and honest story about a dog that he didn't want to confront or lose his finger to and said it was much easier and safer to to simply lure the dog with food (toy?). It avoided the bullshit and kept his digit.


:lol: predictable post as expected...i can almost see the testosterone dripping down the screen on that one, it only makes it clear that you have never trained or you would know better then to make such a bullshit statement  You're forgiven tho Christopher since I know that you simply dont know any better then to respond in this fashion. I guess youre world is made up out of dogs that are either screwed in the head or dogs that feel the need to protect themself coze you have pushed them to hard....a normal dog in the heat of training obviously never crossed youre path....or maybe you buy youre dogs ready and loaded and dont have to deal with the messy training bit at all ! Ill give you 1 point on copying mike suttle's post, he was totaly correct BUT unfortunatly the whole dogworld doesnt exist out of screwed up dogs or dogs that feel the need to protect themselves from their handler...



Christopher Smith said:


> And that's where you need to look in the mirror. This guy had a *HABIT *of creating a dangerous situation and you knew it. Yet you put yourself and your dog in that situation. :-k


I did? well damn you got me there now didnt you! ....if only you were right huh  some things simply cant be avoided no matter how hard you try to...we all knew he had this habit but theres nothing you can do about stupid people who are looking to show their stupidity, has nothing to do with me putting myself in that situation but with the other handler being a twit to start with...but im sure you will come up with an excuse to try and prove yourself right


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## Christopher Smith

And then what Jeff? ;-)


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## Christopher Smith

Alice Bezemer said:


> I did? well damn you got me there now didnt you! ....if only you were right huh  some things simply cant be avoided no matter how hard you try to...we all knew he had this habit but theres nothing you can do about stupid people who are looking to show their stupidity, has nothing to do with me putting myself in that situation but with the other handler being a twit to start with...but im sure you will come up with an excuse to try and prove yourself right


I have already told you that "Accidents do happen but most can be avoided."

Beezy, you could have easily avoided that situation where your badass dog took another club members dog out. He must be one of those "real dogs".:razz::razz::razz::razz: Tell us some stories about all his live bites and how many helpers he has hurt. I love those fables. 

I have this thing about I do about training with stupid people and you might want to take a few notes. Are you ready.....? Here it goes:

Don't train with stupid people. 

BTW, I'm not trying to "get you". I just simply disagree with you. And if you hadn't started with the personal BS this conversation could have been much more pleasant.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: And then what Jeff?

I hear crickets.


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## Christopher Smith

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: And then what Jeff?
> 
> I hear crickets.


Hey Jeff let's make it a little information exchange. You tell me about the dogs you put schutzhund titles on, names, scores etc. And I'll tell you about all my tough man eating "real dogs". OK?


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## Alice Bezemer

Christopher Smith said:


> Beezy, you could have easily avoided that situation. I have this thing about I do about training with stupid people and you might want to take a few notes. Are you ready.....? Here it goes:
> 
> Don't train with stupid people.
> 
> BTW, I'm not trying to "get you". I just simply disagree with you. And if you hadn't started with the personal BS this conversation could have been much more pleasant.



dont train with stupid people....again something that you cant always avoid Christopher since you know as well as I do that there are way to many of them in any kind of dogsport....

as for the personal remark ? ...knowing you the way I do now theres one thing i have learned and thats the fact that having a conversation with you is you is never pleasant. I dont agree with your statement and I called you on it...dont like it? well to bad aint it...its a bullshit remark at best and a copout at worst....dont agree with it, well then say so, dont like it, then dont read it....dont get pissed of at the fact that youre own way of or reacting on a topic gets thrown back in youre face every so often....If you act a certain way at some point people will respond in certain way....and eventualy they will call you on statements made...youre a big boy, deal with it!

and honey you wouldnt know a real dog if it came up to you and bit you on the ass...so dream on


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## Christopher Smith

Alice Bezemer said:


> dont train with stupid people....


So some guy "_had a habbit of letting his dog go long on the leash when walking passed others who were on the field with their dog, his dog used to bark and bite at all the dogs and the owner thought that was funny and cool._...." and you say you don't train with idiots???? 

OK maybe I was wrong. Maybe that other guy wasn't the idiot in the parking lot. But rest assured there was an idiot in that parking lot. \\/


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## Alice Bezemer

Christopher Smith said:


> So some guy "_had a habbit of letting his dog go long on the leash when walking passed others who were on the field with their dog, his dog used to bark and bite at all the dogs and the owner thought that was funny and cool._...." and you say you don't train with idiots????
> 
> OK maybe I was wrong. Maybe that other guy wasn't the idiot in the parking lot. But rest assured there was an idiot in that parking lot. \\/



never said I didnt train with idiots Christopher....grab youre glasses boy youre in desperate need of them 

a parkinglot even ? owdear you have lost youre vision havent you :lol:

Yep I train with idiots...If I can suffer them on a forum why not on the field huh :lol:


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## Christopher Jones

Am I the only one sensing some massive sexual tension going on here between Christopher and Alice?


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## Thomas Barriano

Christopher Jones said:


> Am I the only one sensing some massive sexual tension going on here between Christopher and Alice?


Christopher Smith or Christopher Jones? ;-)


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## Alice Bezemer

Thomas Barriano said:


> Christopher Smith or Christopher Jones? ;-)



Chris Jones ? I can deal with....Chris Smith ? let me go grab a bucket ! #-o


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## Christopher Smith

Beezy want's it fo sheezy


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## Alice Bezemer

Christopher Smith said:


> Beezy want's it fo sheezy



:lol: Awwww decided to grant a view of youre real mental age did you  Would you like a sideorder of backbone to go with youre lack of maturity ?

Its ok Chris...I finaly understand now...the whole distraction on youre part is to make sure no one else discovers the fact that you dont know how to handle being called on a statement you made...specialy not if its a woman...it shows even more how far you are willing to go to protect youre image of manhood....shame it doesnt include having sweet **** all clue about dogs tho...but you cant have it all now can ya...now carry on and keep me amused with youre sense of selfworth...ill grab the squeegy so i can swipe away the testosterone and bullshit im sure you will continue to spout in order to save face against a mere woman.


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## Bob Scott

This post started about a nice working dog that some would love to have. 
That sounded so simple didn't it?!!
Lets try and keep it that way!


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## Christopher Smith

Alice Bezemer said:


> Its ok Chris...I finaly understand now...the whole distraction on youre part is to make sure no one else discovers the fact that you dont know how to handle being called on a statement you made...specialy not if its a woman..



Come on Bezzy, stop trying to play the victim. You can handle the digit biting, "real dogs" but this gets to you? You're the one that started the terms of endearment, "honey". So sit back, relax and have some fun.

But the real fun starts when our good buddy Jeff starts talking about his schutzhund experience


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Luckily, I do not live in the past. There was a time when I was all about it, then, they made it gay. You live in the gay present. You are all about the gayness of Sch.


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## Alice Bezemer

Christopher Smith said:


> Come on Bezzy, stop trying to play the victim. You can handle the digit biting, "real dogs" but this gets to you? You're the one that started the terms of endearment, "honey". So sit back, relax and have some fun.
> 
> But the real fun starts when our good buddy Jeff starts talking about his schutzhund experience



:lol: great distraction...you get a bonuspoint for that !

Trust me Christopher when I tell you that you dont have the smarts to get to me....youre just keeping me distracted from getting to bored  It happens and I noticed that you are so easy to bait so why the hell not take advantage of it and have some fun huh :mrgreen: 

So the real fun starts with Jeff talking about schutzhund huh, so how did he end up in our little chat ?

ooh let me guess, shift topic and confuse in order to avoid actualy getting pinned down to make a real statement or back something up that you said so you wont get called on it.....doesnt it just piss you of to no limit that I wont shut up and fall in awe of you...DAMN I havent had this much fun in years...keep em coming Christoper...next thing you know you might come up with a valid statement about dogs and blow me away !

I cant wait for that to happen :lol: Go on sweetheart....Dazzle us with youre experiance and knowledge....you kept us waiting long enough


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## Gillian Schuler

Bob Scott said:


> This post started about a nice working dog that some would love to have.
> That sounded so simple didn't it?!!
> Lets try and keep it that way!


"nice working dog" is good, Bob. As I understand it, it was supposed to be an anti-terrorist dog!! And they are not so *nice* and, over here in Europe, we've never encountered one in protection training - more's the pity!
In any case, schutzdienst is an emotional affair, both for handler and dog and here, I guess the most accidents happen.

As long as we're all here to tell a tale, it can't be so bad! huh! However careful we are, mishaps happen.

Lighten up folks! It might be your last day :-#


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## Joby Becker

Gillian Schuler said:


> "nice working dog" is good, Bob. As I understand it, it was supposed to be an anti-terrorist dog!! And they are not so *nice* and, over here in Europe, we've never encountered one in protection training - more's the pity!
> In any case, schutzdienst is an emotional affair, both for handler and dog and here, I guess the most accidents happen.
> 
> As long as we're all here to tell a tale, it can't be so bad! huh! However careful we are, mishaps happen.
> 
> Lighten up folks! It might be your last day :-#


This is another anti-terrorist dog....
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=CQBK9#p/u/22/6T2bzNVh3UI

I do like the looks of the OP bitch personally...based on the vid..


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## Debbie Skinner

It's almost the same? :wink:


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## Joby Becker

Debbie Skinner said:


> It's almost the same? :wink:


looks about the same to me..is this an elite counter-terrorist dog too?


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## Debbie Skinner

Joby Becker said:


> looks about the same to me..is this an elite counter-terrorist dog too?


Yes, that c4 in his mouth! :lol::lol:


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## eugene ramirez

Debbie Skinner said:


> Yes, that c4 in his mouth! :lol::lol:





Joby Becker said:


> looks about the same to me..is this an elite counter-terrorist dog too?


Ha ha, that is too funny!!! Good one. So that is what an elite counter-terrorist dog looks like.:-D


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## Joby Becker

eugene ramirez said:


> Ha ha, that is too funny!!! Good one. So that is what an elite counter-terrorist dog looks like.:-D


Just joking around..am not familiar with the people or the dogs in question...did watch all the videos though on the youtube..the one the OP posted was to me, the most impressive...when I saw anti-terrorist I was expecting to seem something like the French RAID videos...


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas

I Agree , Videos are only Aproaches to the temperament of a dog

And live evaluations are only conclusive

Dont go to Far, this female is an active Police k9 dog working on the streets , Just in the border with USA, 2 Hours from San Diego

Happy New Year to ALL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt_WWIWkcsU


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