# update on my puppy



## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

So this is what is going on. 

One of the growing plates closed to early due to an injury while the other one is still open. That causes his leg to grow outwards. The Vet said that the only way to fix it would be to break his leg and re-arrange it. 

However, it's an expensive procedure and I honestly don't have that kind of money. The other thing is, that he is not sure if he could still do Wilderness SAR after that but he most certainly could do HRD. 

He said we'd be looking at 5000+ Dollars. He also said that I should get a second opinion and that he can give me a referral to any doctor I want. 

I talked to the overall Team Captain and asked if it is possible to hold a Fundraiser for the boy. He's just 8 months old. It's not genetically and he can still bring the money back in by going for HRD. My friend will talk to her vet and we'll get a second opinion to find out if he needs the surgical procedure or if he can live without it and to find out how bad it really is.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

That's not very good news, a leg growing outwards surely can't make a fit dog can it? Is he likely to have joint problem there in the future ?

Sorry for your bad luck.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Yes, if it doesn't get fixed he will always have problems. 









This is what it looks like now and it could get worse. It is why he starts limping after 20 minutes of running. 

I highly doubt that he'd be fit to work without the procedure. He's already having problems.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your pup. That sucks, what bad luck.  Did you know what kind of injury damaged the growth plate? Sounds like something that may still be structurally "off" even after the rebreaking and repairs. If it's that much money with no guaranteed success, is it really worth continuing training? Maybe retiring/rehoming and getting another young dog would be an option? Sorry if it's been mentioned before, I don't remember if you previously posted about the problem...


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

I have no idea how to spell or even pronounce what the Vet said. 

I talked to the team captain, if it is possible to work him as an HRD, we'll hold a fundraiser and raise the money for him. If the vet advises against working him, we'll wash him out.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

If you have a vet school nearby, consider going to them and getting an estimate on the procedure with the consideration that he's a non-profit working dog and they can use it as a teaching procedure.
Even with that, if the dog is not comfortable moving around it doesn't matter what the scent work is, it will not enjoy it and might not do well.
Before suggesting the dog will be a good HRD dog, you might have those with materials and who have worked HRD dogs evlauate the dog for HRD work; otherwise, you might be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Jim


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Sandra King said:


> I have no idea how to spell or even pronounce what the Vet said.
> 
> I talked to the team captain, if it is possible to work him as an HRD, we'll hold a fundraiser and raise the money for him. If the vet advises against working him, we'll wash him out.


Did it begin with an O ? Like osteochondritis ?

I would think if his leg grows outward he isn't ever going to get fit.

And I certainly wouldn't donate any poor pup of mine for teaching/surgery practice, but that's just me.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

No, that would be a disease if i am not mistaken. 

I have an appointment with an orthopedic specialist on Friday and will find out more. 
Trust me, I would not donate him for practice surgery either. However, I will not write him off until I have not talked to the Orthopedic Specialist, especially since the Vet said that he could be entirely wrong. 

So for now, it's the waiting game, once again and that is what I paid 444 Dollars for, to be left, yet again, in uncertainty.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Did he call it Angular limb deformity? My old female had a growth plate injury at about 6 months old, just a yelp and continued playing (chasing the ball and jammed bad on some roots) a week later her foot was turning out like a flipper. They cut the non growing bone and injected fat in the space left, the other long leg bone grew to it's normal length and the one with the injected fat eventually grew together. She became a pro at eating off the cast so I fabbed a SS hinged removable outer shell, worked perfect. That was 10 yrs ago and cost me 1600 bucks.

Just looked at the photo, yup looks like my dog.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I am so sorry for your news - and I can empathize with you since I have a dysplastic dog at home who has awesome working drives.

I agree, I think you need a thorough evaluation. Having been on a good many HRD searches and Wilderness Searches, other than pace, I cannot see how HRD is *any *easier on the dog. 

It really may not be worth the time investment - particularly since he is not even operational yet.


??????

What MONEY is in HRD?. I get to spend thousands a year to do this. We do get a few thousand in donations from grateful families a year but not enough to offset what we spend

??????


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.azzore.com/services/orthopedic-surgery/angular-limb-deformities/

Better one, http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Medicine/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/412211


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Al Curbow said:


> Did he call it Angular limb deformity? My old female had a growth plate injury at about 6 months old, just a yelp and continued playing (chasing the ball and jammed bad on some roots) a week later her foot was turning out like a flipper. They cut the non growing bone and injected fat in the space left, the other long leg bone grew to it's normal length and the one with the injected fat eventually grew together. She became a pro at eating off the cast so I fabbed a SS hinged removable outer shell, worked perfect. That was 10 yrs ago and cost me 1600 bucks.
> 
> Just looked at the photo, yup looks like my dog.


Yes, that would be it and it's exactly what happened just a short yelp and kept on romping. You just gave me some hope. 

I have an appointment at May 6th with an orthopedic specialist and 1600 Dollar sounds much better than 5000+ Dollars, however just the evaluation today was over 400 bucks and I guess the prices changed a lot over the past 10 years.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

> What MONEY is in HRD?. I get to spend thousands a year to do this. We do get a few thousand in donations from grateful families a year but not enough to offset what we spend


No, not in terms of earning money but in terms of that he can earn his food and the surgery by doing it by working. If he can work after whatever treatment they suggest. Does that make sense?


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

My evaluation was " walk away with your dog and walk back towards me, okay it's angular limb deformity" It was free, change vets.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Al Curbow said:


> My evaluation was " walk away with your dog and walk back towards me, okay it's angular limb deformity" It was free, change vets.


No kidding. I already had my suspicions and my dad said the very same thing without even seeing him just from years of experience. I hope the orthopedic specialist can say more on the cost to fix it. 

He's got more balldrive than Indra. It would be such a shame if he washes out.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Sandra King said:


> No, not in terms of earning money but in terms of that he can earn his food and the surgery by doing it by working. If he can work after whatever treatment they suggest. Does that make sense?


Not really. 
I would see what they say.
Not trying to be callous.

I have been there with HD on an operational dog that I retired because I knew she was not going to be 110%. 

I do not believe HRD is any easier on the dogs than Wilderness. We have worked enough very very steep bridge overpasses, railroad banks, and Dam bases to make that statement as will as crawing into tunnels and under trailers etc. 

Wish you luck.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Well, my wife is a vet and I've had to take my working dogs to the OSU vet school several times. Considering my dogs are able to go off-lead with me and are working dogs, they tend to get special attention.
I'm not suggesting you donate your dog for a teaching procedure as in they would put it down when they are done or let a student do the surgery. I'm suggesting they can use this as a teaching procedure where a board certified university surgeon can allow the vet students to watch the surgery. They often times discount the bill for such cases.

Jim


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Jim Delbridge said:


> Well, my wife is a vet and I've had to take my working dogs to the OSU vet school several times. Considering my dogs are able to go off-lead with me and are working dogs, they tend to get special attention.
> I'm not suggesting you donate your dog for a teaching procedure as in they would put it down when they are done or let a student do the surgery. I'm suggesting they can use this as a teaching procedure where a board certified university surgeon can allow the vet students to watch the surgery. They often times discount the bill for such cases.
> 
> Jim


Oooh, now I got you. Yeah, that would be a possibility. I believe there actually is one close by. I'll ask the orthopedic specialist about that. They already said that they could help with the fundraiser, if it comes down to it.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Unfortuantely, prices do vary a lot among vets and it does pay to shop around. I'd also talk to other working dog handlers to see who they recommend. If you have access to them, talk to L.E. handlers as they are more likely to seek out solutions to covery their investment first. When I got hydrotheraphy for my dog, I was following a trooper's dog and a narc dog was coming in after mine.

Jim


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Thank you so much for the advise. It's good to know what kind of options are out there, especially since I am new in this country and things work a little different and I don't have that many contacts as I have at home, in Germany.

Even if I have to retire him, I'll keep him. It's not his fault that he got injured. I have one very good dog I can keep my main focus on.


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## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

I'd have to agree with Nancy, HRD is no easier on the dog physically than live find. Wilderness search is wilderness search. The areas to be searched are no different whether the subject is alive or deceased.](*,)


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Michele Fleury said:


> I'd have to agree with Nancy, HRD is no easier on the dog physically than live find. Wilderness search is wilderness search. The areas to be searched are no different whether the subject is alive or deceased.](*,)


Well, if I have to retire him, I will retire him, however, that doesn't change the fact that he needs to be treated.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> Better one, http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Medicine/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/412211


Sandra, I just e-mailed Dr. Fox (the author mentioned in the paper and is one of the experts on angular limb deformity, who is faculty at our vet school). I'll let you know if he has any suggestions of who to see in your area.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Dr. Fox just e-mailed me back and he recommended Dr. Kurt Schultz at New England Veterinary Surgery and Sports Medicine clinic in Burlington, VT. Hope that helps!

http://www.burlingtonvetspecialists.com/Pages_Main/doctors.html


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Thank you so much for the information. I will definitely look into it. 

I went to the Country Side Clinic in Carthage, they have a Vet from Germany, Dr.Hetzner and as far as I know, they work a lot with the dogs from Ft.Drum and fix them up. 

Dr.Hetzner, said that one of the way to fix the problem would be a costume made brace. He would be fully functional and could be worked without any restrictions. He'd wear the brace during the day and it would come off during the night. He'd wear it for about 8-9 months and the leg would straighten out by itself and there'd be no problems left but he does want to talk to an orthopedic surgeon first. 

If we go with the brace, he'd make the cast free of charge send the cast to the company where the braces are made and all I'd have to do is to pay for the brace itself. 

The second option would be to close off the second growth plate, put in some screws and straighten the leg. Third option would be to cut out a piece of bone, which usually is done with fully grown, adult dogs and I'd have to keep him completely quiet which is definitely going to be a pain in the butt.


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## CJ Neubert (Sep 7, 2009)

Jim Delbridge said:


> Well, my wife is a vet and I've had to take my working dogs to the OSU vet school several times. Considering my dogs are able to go off-lead with me and are working dogs, they tend to get special attention.
> I'm not suggesting you donate your dog for a teaching procedure as in they would put it down when they are done or let a student do the surgery. I'm suggesting they can use this as a teaching procedure where a board certified university surgeon can allow the vet students to watch the surgery. They often times discount the bill for such cases.
> 
> Jim


Thanks Jim you beat me to it, The above is the usual procedure at a teaching hospital. The dog gets first rate treatment and the students observe and learn. And as Jim says a very experienced and very qualified board certified surgeon does the procedure.


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