# Puppy exposure & testing



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

I've got 5 day old pups and I'm doing the biosensors exercises now. What all do you all do and at what age? What are you looking for or what is the objective of whatever exercises you do?


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## Paul Cipparone (Feb 13, 2011)

With all my pups, dogs in for training , security dogs , all protection dogs, i plant myself with the dog in front of the exit door of a Wal-Mart, .The dogs get much attention from all those exiting They get exposed to bags flapping the wind , wheelchairs, children, people of all sizes & smells. I ask children to give my dogs a treat.An great place to teach manners. Children cannot resist the chance to pet puppy, with the parents consent of coarse .Teaches children to ask permission , before petting.
I start my pups at 6 weeks.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i don't breed so i don't raise puppies, but i do work with them and i would never do what Paul says he does even tho i DO agree with his intentions.

my reasons :
1. my first priority with a puppy is to ensure i look out for it when i am socialising it. that means i have total control of who approaches the pup, and unless you have a helper or eyes in back your head i don't see how that can be ensured by parking in front of a busy store with foot traffic going in and out
2. i would like to see exactly how he allows kids to feed the puppy. i have very specific ways of doing that but i am also sure it is way different than how he does it. (learned over years of doing it without control of the treat giving and having to deal with "Murphy" showing up)
3. i don't give much credibility to the "parents permission part" ... sounds good on paper, but parents are often clueless and few parents ever have complete control over their kids when they are out and about. i could list many ways how this happens

i am NOT disagreeing with the socialising part; just saying that seems like a poor place to do it.
- unless you live in a VERY rural area, there are plenty of places you can take a pup and either park or do some moving around and have a LOT more control over the training situation regarding who and what you want the pup to interact with

the fact that i live in japan has no bearing on how i would do it. i would do it the same in any city anywhere. there are plenty of clueless people all over the world, and if they don't have a well mannered dog with them, to me, they are clueless until proven otherwise //lol//


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

forgot to add ... pups rarely like to "park" for any amount of time. having the space to walk it around helps keep it more settled and less "antsy"


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I know a lot of gun dog folks who start firing off blanks around the pups to acclimate to sudden and loud noises. When I was picking out my current pup, the breeder whipped out a starters pistol and let loose with a couple of rounds about 5 ft from the pups and they never stopped doing what they were doing. In the kennel area, you can put small barriers up that the pups have to go up or over every time they want to eat or go out of the kennel area.

I like people to interact with the pups and let them interact with him. Just have to watch the puppy teeth. None of my family's dogs are dog aggressive so they get to pack out with them and learn how to talk dog. I don't mind them putting that pup in his place. I want my dogs to be able to deal with loose dogs coming up to them and not looking for or picking a fight.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Hunter

curious if your vet has given any advice in this regard...
i've heard from quite a few vets to keep young pups isolated until vaccinations are done.

i have not followed that very strictly and have taken pups out to meet the world at a very young age (before they get their sea legs)
- my only concern was exposure to other animals, and not mucking around, but not from keeping them from sights, sounds, smells, etc.

to me, vets seem to be overcautious and i always figured that results in missed opportunities for environmental exposure and conditioning.

i doubt there is hard data one way or the other. just seemed like the kinda thing that if you hear it enough it must be true, etc


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

This is what was being done with the military dogs. http://www.vspa.com/k9/biosensor.htm

My older GSD had this done at 3 to 5 days old. I have nothing to compare to but he has been the absolute best dog I've ever owned in 60+ yrs. 

I understand there is a small window for this to be done.

With any pup I've had it has been exposing them to anything and every thing I can from the get go.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

interesting article. wish it had gone into more detail as to how they arrived at their conclusions.

this was my takeaway : "It seems clear that small amounts of stress followed by early socialization can produce beneficial results. The danger seems to be in not knowing where the thresholds are for over and under stimulation."

re: the nature/nurture debate -- 35%/65% ???


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I think it ties into the school of thought that all knowledge (ideas/beliefs/thinking) is basically generated initially through our senses. The example that Hunter used I believe works off that by allowing the breeder to establish a fundamental but controlled basis for delivering experiences that may neutralize reactions to relatively new or unpleasing circumstances going forward.

I don't breed but I do have a dog that was exposed to the biosensor protocol. I am just offering my opinion on what I believe the original approach was based off of. I really don't care to offer an opinion one way or another about whether or not it's successful.

Hunter, I know you were looking for a breeders approach but recently I was looking for something on YouTube and saw a breeder that was deliberately placing obstacles in the way of pups to the dam. The objective was for them to find their way over or around it to the food source. I believe what I was looking for had something to do with problem solving and this video showed an exercise (one of them anyway) that was utilized by that breeder.

As for my own pups, I work with what's in front of me and aside from the obvious, I do whatever I feel is right for that particular pup at any given time. I guess I just go with my gut.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

The obstacle thing is something I've seen others replicate. Because you do it at an early age, it's just part of life. Noise, obstacles to overcome, work to live..... it's just part of life and nothing special. I know one breeder who wants her dogs climbing out of stuff. A friend got one of her pups and had to put a lid on the outdoor kennel because the dog would climb out. On the flip side, the dog was extremely fearless and confident on getting into difficult locations during searches.
When I bring pups into my house, I do stuff normally. Vacuuming the rug? This is the vacuum, this is the rug, deal with it, pup. Now I have to physically bump the dog with the unit to get them to move because they love to be vacuumed and follow me around until I do. (I run the end of the hose over their bodies. I think they like the massage effect of the suction and cooler air movement)

I know when there are litters on the farm, they are whelped in the house but then moved out shortly thereafter. Jen used to take over one of the barn stalls (used by cows, horses, sheep) and the pups lived with the farm stock until they left for their new homes. They would run around getting into the mud, poop, and what not until they were sold. I never know if its luck or good management but in the 30-something years she's never lost a puppy to sickness.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> This is what was being done with the military dogs. http://www.vspa.com/k9/biosensor.htm
> 
> My older GSD had this done at 3 to 5 days old. I have nothing to compare to but he has been the absolute best dog I've ever owned in 60+ yrs.
> 
> ...


I've been doing exactly this and videoing it all


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> I think it ties into the school of thought that all knowledge (ideas/beliefs/thinking) is basically generated initially through our senses. The example that Hunter used I believe works off that by allowing the breeder to establish a fundamental but controlled basis for delivering experiences that may neutralize reactions to relatively new or unpleasing circumstances going forward.
> 
> I don't breed but I do have a dog that was exposed to the biosensor protocol. I am just offering my opinion on what I believe the original approach was based off of. I really don't care to offer an opinion one way or another about whether or not it's successful.
> 
> ...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Sorry can't delete the above. This is in reply to Nicole's post:


I have watched various breeds temperament tests which obviously have been adapted to the breed's requirements.

Today, it seems that a lot of it is overrated. 

One of the testing that is the same for each pup, is the gunshot test.

I asked the breeder to time which of the pups reached the bitch's tits the fastest. This pup grew up to be a dog without any problems. He was vital, able to cut a good figure in IPO, oblivious to humans apart from his own family, quiet in the house but a dog that had to be controlled in the forest.

One thing I would never do again is ignore a pup's aversion to certain elements, i.e. small children, women, etc. My older GSD was only visited whilst he was in the litter probably by large men (working dog handlers). He got used to the others but for me it wasn't important.

It takes a while to check out how a pup ticks (much longer than it takes for him to check you out).

As a breeder, one would have to test them outside the "comfortable zone", i.e. Kennels.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I think that all the tests done at the breeder's property can't be judged as conclusive.

The only way to properly judge a pup is to take him out of his "comfort" zone and introducee him to an unknown environment.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

When my Mom and i used to take her PWC out and ask people "Could you help us with something?" their guard would go up, and some caution and resistance would wash into their eyes and then we would quickly launch into "We're trying to socialize our puppy--would you pet her and say hello?" and not a single person ever refused or even hesitated. they would break out into huge smiles and pet that puppy. that was a very friendly Corgi when she grew up!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Catherine,

Why would you ask people to "pet" your pup?

And what is a PWC???


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

The Pembroke Welsh Corgi. Or maybe a Personal Water Craft… you never know these days.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Sorry just seen Catherine mentioned a Corgi.

Back bending Events!


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Bob Scott said:


> This is what was being done with the military dogs. http://www.vspa.com/k9/biosensor.htm


Bob, thank you for posting the link.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

rick smith said:


> interesting article. wish it had gone into more detail as to how they arrived at their conclusions.
> 
> this was my takeaway : "It seems clear that small amounts of stress followed by early socialization can produce beneficial results. The danger seems to be in not knowing where the thresholds are for over and under stimulation."
> 
> re: the nature/nurture debate -- 35%/65% ???



I think that 35%/65% could probably argued + or - forever. :lol: 

They did go a bit into "over and under stimulation". I think to much would probably create issues whereas to little "probably" wont do anything to add to or detract from what's there at birth.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I think that all the tests done at the breeder's property can't be judged as conclusive.
> 
> The only way to properly judge a pup is to take him out of his "comfort" zone and introducee him to an unknown environment.



!00% agree! I like to see the pups as individuals and away from the breeders property.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I know of MANY working terrier breeders that raise their pups with kenels full of "junk". Sewer pipe and PVC pipe of all sizes. Plastic baby wading pools, you name it. 

I had a 20 x25 ft vegetable garden behind my garage at the old house and there was buried 6 and 10 in PVC pipe of different lengths with turns and dips all over the place.

I also had a "correct" according to the AWTA 9"x9"X30' w/two turns tunnel there also. My 40 and 35lb Kerry Blues would use those "big" tunnels to cool off on hot days.

I used to laugh at the folks that brought their fat, furbaby terriers to trials and would withdraw their enter because they though their babies would get stuck in the tunnels. ](*,) 
Hard to take the evil out of the little bassids though and very few refused once they had 5-10 mins of schooling.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

On the topic of brain development:
Scientific studies on rats were done in the 1990s, comparing rats confined to a cage w/ no exercise vs. rats who ran a treadmill each day (also caged). These two groups were also compared to rats that were taught to go over and through an elevated obstacle course. Brains of the first two groups of rats were about the same, but for the obstacle course group their cerebral cortexes were heavier. So learning or problem-solving tasks built brains bigger than just exercise. 

Other rat studies done at Berkeley focused on what stimuli had the most powerful effect on brain development. They found that exercise alone, visual stimulation, petting & handling, pressing levers for a food reward, none of these separate variables consistently improved rat's neural development as much as freely roaming around a large, object-strewn space.

If extrapolated to dogs, this means the detritus in the yard or house is a good thing.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> On the topic of brain development:
> Scientific studies on rats were done in the 1990s, comparing rats confined to a cage w/ no exercise vs. rats who ran a treadmill each day (also caged). These two groups were also compared to rats that were taught to go over and through an elevated obstacle course. Brains of the first two groups of rats were about the same, but for the obstacle course group their cerebral cortexes were heavier. So learning or problem-solving tasks built brains bigger than just exercise.
> 
> Other rat studies done at Berkeley focused on what stimuli had the most powerful effect on brain development. They found that exercise alone, visual stimulation, petting & handling, pressing levers for a food reward, none of these separate variables consistently improved rat's neural development as much as freely roaming around a large, object-strewn space.
> ...


I've got cut up pool noodles in the box now to provide some "structure" and I've got parts in route to make a respectable obstacle course


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald (May 23, 2014)

I've done this, but I don't think any thing can replace the ordinary, every day handling pups can recieve from being raised in the busy environments they will hopefully grow up in.

Being picked up to have bedding changed and checked for growth or problems, letting the kids in to play with them, having them where they can watch life go on around them in the farmyard or home and lots of time to explore and interact. Moving them to better shade in the heat or close quarters in the cold. Variety and experience and contact with it from day 1.. Lacking that, your stimulus excersizes might over come that some.


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