# Police Dog pinched/pulled off bite by suspect..



## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Interesting video of a police dog being pulled/pinched off the bite by the subject....

Some debate with this one I think...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVE7pIwkshI


:-#


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## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

Wow, interesting! Good that the dog did reengage later - he certaintly seemed to quit with whatever the bad dude did to get him off the first time. I know nothing about real street work so I'd be interested to know what people think. Just seemed that the dog was a bit flat.....that guy was interesting....


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

It was kind of hard to see exactly what the guy did to get the dog to release. While that in itself isn't unheard of, I much rather would have seen the dog continue the fight right then. It's good that he did reengage, but I still would have rather seen the dog fight the guy on the spot. With the film though I couldn't hear if the handler recalled the dog once he released. Body language didn't appear that way, but can't be sure. 

DFrost


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

i guess i'm the only one who heard the handler tell the dog to release.

nothing wrong with this dog at all. the guy was wearing a thick leather jacket which will GREATLY reduce pain/injury. plus the guy looked like he was possibly under the influence to boot.

good doggy...


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I heard the handler tell his dog twice to "heel" . I think he would have returned on the first command but the suspect was holding on to him . Very obediant dog under those circumstances . 

The badguy was wearing a heavy leather jacket with a denim jacket and a shirt underneathe . Some badguys can take alot of pain plus the dog was wearing good protection . 

It was a nice 2nd apprehension on the badguy . I can't give much of an opinion on the dog based on this short clip . Hard to see first bite , feel the presure of the bite , etc. . But to me based on the little I saw , it looked like a good job . The suspect didn't pull the dog off , he was commanded off the bite by the handler who was off camera .


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Sorry I meant the badguy was wearing good protection. 

I'd just like to add that this is a good video for folks (police and civilians) who think their K9 is always going to totally dominate a suspect . It's a team effort . I expect my dog to take to do his job but I'm prepared to coordinate help for him if it's needed .


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Gary Garner said:


> Interesting video of a police dog being pulled/pinched off the bite by the subject....
> 
> Some debate with this one I think...
> 
> ...


 
The handler told the dog to heel, the dog let go, then the suspect was told to let the dog go (because the suspect had the dog by the scruff of the neck)

then the subject released the dog.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

the volume does not work on my computer with this video for some reason. So I can not comment on what the handler told the dog to do. But I will say the the suspect actually did nice decoy work for a first time decoy!! LOL he took the back bite like a champ.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I thought the dog was called off as well. He let out a little growl after the second "heel command", released and returned to the handler after the suspect let go of him. Hell of a bite suit.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mighty calm bad guy. Looked odd to me why the cops didn't nab the guy after the dog outed the first time. Nothing more than my observation though


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike , 

With just a video we know very little about this incident . By the way they were giving this guy space I'm guessing they know more about him then we do . I personally don't take the dog off until the suspect is in cuffs . But if you saw me on the show I took my dog off my suspect early because he complied and went to the ground and I could see his hands . I thought we could get him cuffed faster that way . But it was a gamble that paid off that time . Maybe not next time . 

With the guy in this video I wouldn't want to go hands with him . 90% of bikers I've dealt with have knives , plus this guy was big . They still had the option of sending the dog back on which they did . I would rather go hands on with a guy like that when he is busy with my dog . 

In my department we've had Officers cut severely going in on the suspect in these type of situations . 

But these are just my opinions and other Officers may have different opinions on the tactics used here . Bottom line there are many ways to deal with this situation and it's easy comment after the fact . When you're actually in that situation you have to make split second descisions and the badguy many times will counter those . 

Most cops I know look back on situations like that and discuss it to see if there was something they could have done better . Overall I think they did a good job . Was there things I would have done different . Yes , but it's easy for me sitting back watching it on video . When you're in the mix different story .

I'd rather leave it up to the Officers that were invovled to review their tactics and descide what they could have done different . They were there and knew way more then I did .


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

> You are absolutely right Jim. As a young inexperienced handler I use to think the same way, my partner was invincible!!

> One night I sent him (Lucifer) to take down a very large intoxicated Samoan, and when he engaged him the Samoan simply stated to me with a large grin on his face, "That's all you got"? I quickly jumped in with mag light wailing and with the assistance of (3) other officers and (Lucifer) finally able to grab a calf and gain a good hold, were finally able to put him to the ground. 

> It took us over 5 more minutes to finally place 2 sets of cuffs behind his back, 2 more times I had to have (Lucifer) reengage to take his priority off of the other officers trying to cuff and secure him. Even then we had to place him in leg irons and eventually hog tie him after kicking out a window and damaging the door of a patrol car. 

> From that moment on the word invincible ceased to exist in my vocabulary when it comes to PSD work!!

> Phil


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

nice find Gary. I would be happy with that. I usually have the opposite of what happened ..other cops steaming in for the apprehension with no regard for the dog.

We had this situation recently where my dogs littermate took a cop by the calf who had jumped in .... one painful surgery later


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> i guess i'm the only one who heard the handler tell the dog to release.
> 
> good doggy...


I wasn't sure, my audio didn't work with that video. If that's the case, that was indeed a good deployment.

DFrost


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Phil , 

We've had many incidents like that here . 

These types of incidents are good reasons for PSD handlers to train their K9's in extended confrontations . Much longer then most train for or the majority of most real K9 engagements . Involving numerous Officers , impact weapons , mace , etc. .


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> I wasn't sure, my audio didn't work with that video. If that's the case, that was indeed a good deployment.
> 
> DFrost


i had seen that episode several times before. this youtube version is obviously a crappy recording. somebody just held their camcorder (no need for a tripod) up to their television. if i remember correctly, they did indeed have a history with the guy and the want was for felony threats.

the dog did well. as mike suttle said, the badguy does good decoy work. what police decoy doesn't pull the dogs scruff toward his nose? that dog was right at home.

again, the suspect DID NOT PULL THE DOG OFF as the title of this thread suggests. the handler told the dog to release the bite.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

The suspect was not particularly big nor was he particularly well padded nor was he particualrly violent or "high". 

Yet he was just brushing off this dog as if it didn't exist. 

This dog doesn't fill me with much confidence at all.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

"nor was he particularly well padded "

Leather jacket and several layers, more than most Old School hidden sleeves.

As far as the level of violence, this is a good example of why bitting the passive should not be overlooked.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Like I said - not well padded at all.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Nice video. I liked your comment for the first time decoy, Mike. Looked like he was wearing a tactical/low profile bite suit. He sure did a good job but I would have liked to see him work the grip more. He might be too old now, but you could probably coax the bad guy into doing decoy/helper work for you. Nice seeing you and your dogs at HITS.


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

Should have been a Rottie :grin:


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> Nice video. I liked your comment for the first time decoy, Mike. Looked like he was wearing a tactical/low profile bite suit. He sure did a good job but I would have liked to see him work the grip more. He might be too old now, but you could probably coax the bad guy into doing decoy/helper work for you. Nice seeing you and your dogs at HITS.


hey Dave,
I actually started a thread just to thank you and Signature K-9 for your help and support at the HITS seminar. Thanks agian for working my dogs for me there.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Anytime Mike. In fact, how about thursday night or friday morning? I am headed that way and would like to work a few if I could.


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## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

My audio doesn't work - so that would explain why the dog seemed so shut down after the initial bite then went back in so well after the second. Sorry!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Andy Larrimore said:


> Should have been a Rottie :grin:


I was waiting for this!


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

James Degale said:


> Like I said - not well padded at all.


:roll:

compared to all the real bites your PPD has had on various types of clothing on people?

"'tis better to keep your mouth shut and have people assume you are an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt."


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## Dwyras Brown (Nov 21, 2008)

For all the officers here, look at the guys face. Does the vacant look on his face and the total indifference to what would be painful to a normal person tell you anything. The dog was definitely called off, then the suspect was told to let go of the dog. The dog was definitely not pinched of the bite by the perp. James Degale, I don't know what you do for a living and how big you are, but the guy looked pretty big to me. And I've seen lots of big guys and he looked big to me.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

James Degale said:


> The suspect was not particularly big nor was he particularly well padded nor was he particualrly violent or "high".
> 
> Yet he was just brushing off this dog as if it didn't exist.
> 
> This dog doesn't fill me with much confidence at all.


I don’t know what you saw but that was a good sized dude, looked cracked out to me and although he was fairly calm I would consider him a bit on the violent side. Definitely wasn’t in the teen punk category. I wouldn’t really want to come home to him in my house.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> Mike ,
> 
> With just a video we know very little about this incident . By the way they were giving this guy space I'm guessing they know more about him then we do . I personally don't take the dog off until the suspect is in cuffs . But if you saw me on the show I took my dog off my suspect early because he complied and went to the ground and I could see his hands . I thought we could get him cuffed faster that way . But it was a gamble that paid off that time . Maybe not next time .
> 
> ...


Not a critique or even questioning what the cops did. The entire video looked odd to me but I don't spend much time in your world. And Jim if you stay clear of Porky's this summer it will stay that way I got a new set of rear tires ready to put on the old ones just need to get warmed up a couple of times before I change them. :mrgreen:


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

James Degale , your statements on this subject make it painfully obvious you have little to no experiance with a situation like this . 

Tim , I couldn't have summed up James any better . 

Mike , no problem . I'm the last guy you've got to worry about traffic enforcement . Unless it will some how involve the use of my partner . You may see me detailed there but I'm looking for a reason to get out of there .


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