# Chameleon e-collar



## sam haddad (Jun 7, 2010)

http://www.dogsport.be/shop-product-detail.aspx?ID=f6ebc354-b764-4f51-85b5-62dbf6397c0a

has any one used it. and it better have a liftime no Qs asked warranty for 690EU


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## sam haddad (Jun 7, 2010)

sam haddad said:


> http://www.dogsport.be/shop-product-detail.aspx?ID=f6ebc354-b764-4f51-85b5-62dbf6397c0a
> 
> has any one used it. and it better have a liftime no Qs asked warranty for 690EU


sorry its not out yet. looks cool though. pair that with the ring remote and you could take your dog to an akc event without getting the look of death


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

it's a good example of an effort to refine product development but I feel diminishing size is premature for remotes because the performance is not good enough yet

One of the key areas where I see performance lacking is with capacitor cycle frequency in continuous mode. If you hold the continuous button down, the capacitors in the collar discharge, recharge and discharge at a frequency based on the battery's voltage, capacitor size and what I imagine is something like a MOSFET to switch the capacitors. A low frequency results in a relatively slow pulsing instead of a more continous discharge. Think about how fast a dog's reflexes are and you will realize this has a completely different effect on the dog than continous pressure.

We really have nick and pulse. Since the remote is useful for both positive punishment and negative reinforcement, we need a better collar that delivers low levels of more continous pressure. I believe that will come with a different selection of battery and capacitor parameters that allow a mosfet to switch at a higher frequency. We're getting a couple hertz right now at best and we should have at least several hundred hertz or a kilohertz.

Another way to do it would be with a completely different mechanism. The vibrate mechanism in my remote is the most useful feature. Beep is second. I don't even use stim anymore but I would be more likely to with a completely different dog than the one I have.

Unfortunately, sales to pet people totally overwhelms the sport and gun dog markets and product development for performance has slowed to a crawl. Instead we're going to get Apple versions of the products that look like iRemotes or iCollars and come in slick cases with fruity looking color accents and flashy LED's, and they'll be an app for it on your phone instead of a separate transmitter.


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## Jennifer Thornton (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm interested on how this will be refined in the coming years. I like the idea very much! This design has a lot of potential as the kinks get worked out.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

euro 690 and does NOT include the transmitter?
I don't think I'll be buying one anytime soon


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Jennifer Thornton said:


> I'm interested on how this will be refined in the coming years. I like the idea very much! This design has a lot of potential as the kinks get worked out.


 
Potential? For what? How would this improve your e-collar training during training sessions? What is appealing about the potential to have a concealed remote-collar on an untrained dog?


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Maybe this collar is trying to capitalize on markets where e-collars are banned. The description says it can be "adapted" to laws, presumably by disabling it, but the design suggests it will rather evade recognition.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

don't know about the electronics in it, but obviously another "advancement" based on how it looks to people rather than how it works for the dog....just like that leather collar it was attached to that was built "inside out" 
- smooth side out for people to look at, rather than smooth side in, where it rides on the dog's neck/fur ...


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## Jennifer Thornton (Dec 12, 2010)

sam haddad said:


> sorry its not out yet. looks cool though. pair that with the ring remote and you could take your dog to an akc event without getting the look of death


Should have quoted what I meant. I was agreeing on the AKC comment. Sure it's really only for the sensitive general public, but hey, it's a cool idea nonetheless.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i don't understand why it would bother people about the "looks" they get from other people when they are out with their dog ??
i take dogs out in crowded public places ALL the time ... with Ecollars on and with muzzles on 
- i get lots of looks, questions and comments ....puzzled looks, scared looks, Q's about the "shock collar", and comments like "isn't a shock collar hurting the dog ?", etc etc etc
... no big deal 
- i walk dogs in muzzles right past a line of little leaguers and other kids sports teams begging for donations while their parents behind them are quivering, which also doesn't bother me a BIT

why should anyone want to dress a dog in something that "looks good" or is "cool" unless it was better for the dog ?
- about the only dress i'll put on a dog is a bandana but it does have a bit of function too
- overall, the dogs BEHAVIOR is the only cool factor i want to project

people who see a dog under control with a confident handler are impressed over here....just as much as some fluff ball dressed in a wild looking cute vest

building a collar just so you can hide it from public view is a step backwards in Ecollar R/D imo and has NO cool factor for me, and this one actually looks like it might even be a fur catcher which would be a NEGATIVE to me 

otoh ... the bellon micro collar seemed like a step forward.....less brick weight to hang on a dog's neck
-unfortunately their web site was a black hole and non responsive to american inquiries from Japan, and after i inquired here, it seemed like no one on has used it or wasn't impressed or interested enuff to repond, so i gave up on trying to get one... so i saved some bucks 
- and i doubt i'll be trying to get the newest most expensive edition that is only available in "limited quantities" either 

just my opinions of course since i have no way to know what kind of electronics are in the newest version


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

E-collars are illegal in some European countries and I think this collar was designed to address that.


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## Chris Keister (Jun 28, 2008)

PSD would be an application as well. There is the public perception and the stigma that "the dog is not under control" if it needs to wear an e-collar. 

My friend had an equipment manufacturer make a leather collar that held a receiver for his patrol dog. For much less money I might add....


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

the closer i look the more that design on that collar on the web site looks like a fur catcher ... no matter how tight you cinch em down they still move

Q:
- why in the world do you need a MILSPEC heavy duty collar to attach an Ecollar to ???? 
- i sure hope that doesn't mean you would attach your lead to this set up because that would seem dumb to me too, or maybe i should clarify :

- would anyone here attach their lead to a collar that was attached to the Ebrick ?
- do some of you use the Ecollar as your primary collar; with a lead attached to it ??
(fwiw, guess i've been doing it wrong; i never do that)

- regardless, i don't think i would want that set up on my dog's neck no matter how well it hides the Ecollar look


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> E-collars are illegal in some European countries and I think this collar was designed to address that.


How long will it take for police/AC to recognize these new E-collars and still give you a ticket and take your new $1k+ collar/transmitter?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> How long will it take for police/AC to recognize these new E-collars and still give you a ticket and take your new $1k+ collar/transmitter?


The cops are not looking for e-collars. The collar only has to not look like an e-collar enough that your rivals can't take a picture of it and rat you out.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

It's the Green Party and AR types they have to worry about not their rivals


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

History contradicts you.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

is my thinking all screwed up ?

- a dog that needs to wear an Ecollar in public is one that needs a strong correction for (unacceptable) behaviors that might pop up at the wrong time
- if the Ecollar is "integrated" into a flat collar many people will use it as a single purpose collar and attach their lead to it
- so now the dog does "something" that requires E
- when that happens, the dog will probably add considerable more tension to the lead
- now you have a dog that gets an E stim of some sort PLUS a lead pop that is pulling the two prongs deeper into its neck at odd angles

i have always used an Ecollar as a separate collar with NO lead attached
- shouldn't this be the only way to use one and NOT do away with a requirement for an additional collar that attaches to a lead ?
- assuming a large dog who requires a strong collar, don't you still need TWO collars.....one for the E and one for the lead ??

seems to me anyone trying to get by with one collar (with the hidden brick) is now going to apply much more wear and tear on the dog's neck during normal usage
...or is this not gonna happen because every owner will have the safety of their dog in mind when applying corrections and still use two separate collars ??
..... i just doubt that will be the case for many owners ](*,)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> is my thinking all screwed up ?
> 
> - a dog that needs to wear an Ecollar in public is one that needs a strong correction for (unacceptable) behaviors that might pop up at the wrong time
> - if the Ecollar is "integrated" into a flat collar many people will use it as a single purpose collar and attach their lead to it
> ...


yeah I think you are overthinking it.

I think almost all Dogtra Ecollar straps and many others also come with a D-ring...I have never seen a dog hooked on any ecollar strap, even those with rings to attach a leash to.

I also think that trainers that used this type of collar would also use a fursaver or pinch most of the time, and a different (wider) collar for agitation.

I am pretty sure that people using ecollars would not hook leashes onto the Ecollar, and also pretty sure that normal dog and pet owners are not gonna shell out that kind of money for an ecollar.

I did not see anywhere where anyone said that this would be the only collar in use OR have a lead hooked up to it.

I also do not agree with your assessment that if a person chooses to use an ecollar in public ,that it is because the dog requires strong corrections for undesirable behaviors.

I think this collar is mainly produced for the reasons that Chris has stated, to hide it, possibly in places where it may be illegal to use.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> History contradicts you.


I'm not sure what your point is or if you have one?
I am sure I don't care either way 
Later Chris


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