# Interesting Opportunity



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Going to look at a 7 week old puppy tomorrow out of an Autism Breeding program. Puppy is West German x Czech and this little fella was the first one to walk, the first to eat, the first to go up the dog ramp, and an absolutely incorrigible landshark. 

One of the volunteers with the autism organization is also on our team and has a nice dog same sire x different dam and he thought of us when they mentioned that this puppy (at 5 weeks old) may not be calm enough to do the work.

-The group feels that this puppy will probably be a "dropout" from their program and will definitely be too much for most of their puppy raisers and would like to see him in a working LE or SAR home, so I have the opportunity to raise him (they pay medical and help me with training, and providing some great socialization opportunities) 

- IF the puppy continues to develop as expected - I would get him as my next cadaver dog prospect.

-My risk is that the puppy does not become what we think it will and may be pulled back into the program and become an Autism service dog or else they would place him in a pet home. 

_But if he does not have what I need for a cadaver dog, I would not want him anyway. So I loose 6 months to a year. OTOH the other 2 cadaver dog handlers have new young adult dogs that should be up in 6 months to a year and my dog is still working fine at 8. [Not to mention their operational older dogs, also 8 and 9]-so my missing the time is not leaving the team in a lurch._

-NOT my risk is health problems or bad hips. When they do prelims and if they find a problem, they not I wind up dealing with the issue.

-I am really thinking of doing this as the puppy crapshoot risk is mitigated and since I telecommute anyway I can do things with him throughout the day and imprint him EARLY on scent [and they are fine with me doing drive buidling etc]

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So I get to meet him a few times this week. I know there is the PAWS test. Would appreciate insights on anything and everything to observe.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Test the puppy for affinity to human remains. I can send you a link to my test, but it's grown to some 46 pages over the years by questions and comments. I test puppies at 5-6 weeks to find the naturals and find they stay true to form if I test impartially without prejudice. Part of the test is a modified Volhard test to fit my requirements, then there is an unstable surface test, an 18 inch agility tunnel with a food source inside, a bone/teeth tea ball is left out for the puppy to find(or not), a prey toy is set up on a fishing line, and a maze with live article, food source, and a human remains scent source at the farthest upwind part of the maze. If a puppy doesn't eventually get to the HRs and exhibit a fondness for it then I don't want it for a cadaver dog.

Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I sent you a pm. Will definitely take some training material tomorrow.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

What ya got to loose Nancy, go for it, its a win win situation for the dog having a cause in life and ya got a 50 -50 shot at it being your next dog if not it gos to help a even bigger cause with children. You said your GSD is operating fine still I say go for it, I think it would be admirable.=D>=D>=D>


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Why test any puppy, still don't get that part. If you observe a puppy you can see enough, can't you?

And what Harry said, no loss anyhow for you in it.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I have only raised 5 puppies from 8 weeks to adult. Still a learning curve. Though they 4 were GSDs and little landsharks.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

I test to find the "natural" HRD dog, the dog that has all the right temperments and an obsession with the scent due to genetics not due to imprinting. I've been doing this over 15 years and not only for my own dogs. The puppy develops into the predicted dog more times than not and if working with a decent trainer than the traits are all encouraged such that they become stronger. 
The other side is wait until they are 12-18 months and exhibit high ball drive. During the 4-16 week learning curve I can establish a very solid foundation for all the scent components of HRD and set up the work ethic. After 16 weeks, I have 36 more weeks to develop the skills I need in a working dog that most have to deal with afterwards. If I make it all a big game then I create a dog that loves the search as much as I do rather than a dog that works for that appearing reward.
I worked a blind this morning with 3-week decomposed placenta in dense woods. Fortunately, the problem setter put the source deep down into some branch debris piles as my working dog wanted to roll in it then paused and decided to include me in on the find with his alert. We were some50 feet away from him when he started to alert. His behavior changed about 100 feet away from search, so we both knew the source was close. 

Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

This adds to the complexity 

I would up being interested in another puppy and will see him 2 times this week. She was not going to put him in the program but hold him back for her breeding program if all worked out.

He was not quite as crazy about chasing the toys, and was not bringing them back though he did carry them around. Both dogs did fine with all kinds of surfaces, noises, air blown on them, etc., But the pup that liked the odor was more social (the other pup fought on his back though he was not screaming and biting and resisted being held) ---- but when I put out a cadaver scented rag and lured "mellow puppy" (relative scale) past it, he did a head pop went straight to it and buried his face in it and just breathed it in for maybe 5 seconds, then carried it off. The other puppy noticed it but was not really interested in it unless I made it move.

She is willing to let me take the more "mellow" puppy that loved the scent so much if she can breed to him later if all else works out.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

On that test I actually like a puppy to resist some, then relax for a bit, the finally resist again. The ones that just lay there don't interest me. The ones that fight the entire time don't interest me.
That's just my personal preference.

Did you use puppy-size toys or big dog toys?

I sent you a PM describing what I expect. It might clear things up a bit more for you. From here on out, I'd only look at the two puppies and if one of them doesn't sell you on the idea that it's an HRD wunderkind, then I'd thank the breeder for the opportunity and move on. There are always more litters.

Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Thanks for the PM

I absolutely agree - if puppy does not have it all it is not worth the risk. There is a lot of effort put in between 8 weeks and 6 months. 

Realize even with the testing there is risk. There is always risk with a puppy. Just working to hope the die are loaded.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Well, after a 2nd visit I decided to walk. I did not see enough of what I wanted. So I have another prospect who is 6 months and not local. I may ask for some comments when I get a video. 

The person who has this puppy has more than enough expertise in working dogs both in schutzhund and SAR to make an honest evaluation so we are just going back and forth on the phone.

It is a littermate

This is the pedigree, however.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=704472


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

Experience in SAR and Schutzhund is all well and good, but realize that what they like in a dog for working will (most likely) not be the perfect fit for you. If you become serious about the six month old then I'd still test it to see if it was the right fit for me before taking it on.


Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

That one fell through - she wants to keep the dog. So not in a rush. My original goal was Nov/Dec anyway - but open for the right dog if it happens. 

I have decided to stick with a GSD mainly because I am used to their nuances and like them. 

Good enough for me. I have to live with them.

I figured when I am old enough to NEED a wee little dog then I am too old to be doing this.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> That one fell through - she wants to keep the dog. So not in a rush. My original goal was Nov/Dec anyway - but open for the right dog if it happens.
> 
> I have decided to stick with a GSD mainly because I am used to their nuances and like them.
> 
> ...


You can live with a mali or DS too if you know how to select a working dog JMO? not implying you don't know how to pick a dog, just making a general statement.


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## Jim Delbridge (Jan 27, 2010)

I talked an area searchdisaster dog handler friend of mine into looking at a Dutch Shepard/GSD mix bred by an officer. (Actually, we discussed the shepard breeds and she talked herself into it. He has a GSD she's working as well.) She tested the litter and selected a puppy about 16 months ago. The puppy is blowing everyone away she's training with. Her only complaint is the puppy wants to work all the time. The dog is awesome. And this from a floppy-earred dog handler.


Jim


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

True, I have seen some nice dutchies and mals but have also seen some truly nice GSDs as well. They are out there.


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