# Raw with Kibble



## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

Why do people feed raw along with kibble. Right now I'm feeding Diamond Naturals xtreme energy to my AB puppies. I've been thinking about going to raw but I'd rather wate until at least 6 or 8 months and do some more research to gain some knowledge on the subject.


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## Lori Longardino (Apr 4, 2009)

why 6 to 8 months? What do you mean along with? rotating days, meals, same meal? there is alot of info about raw diets, RawMeatyBones, prey model, barf. Research these 3 and chose one then study and follow it strictly. There are alot of complete premade raw feeds but if you learn what is required for a particular diet you can feed your dog very economicaly.


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## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

I primarily feed raw and have for almost 10 years now with great results. But I do use a high quality, all natural, grain free kibble both as training treats and in addition to the raw meat so that if I have to travel for training/vacation or a search, I don't have to angst about carrying/packing/finding raw meat for the dogs. I know that they can do well on kibble alone in a pinch.


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

Lori Longardino said:


> why 6 to 8 months? What do you mean along with? rotating days, meals, same meal? there is alot of info about raw diets, RawMeatyBones, prey model, barf. Research these 3 and chose one then study and follow it strictly. There are alot of complete premade raw feeds but if you learn what is required for a particular diet you can feed your dog very economicaly.


The reason I stated at 6 to 8 months is basically a time line for me to research it enough to feel comfortable I don't want to do any thing to hender there growth right now and make sure they get all the essential vitamens and such. I would like to possibly get started sooner of course. I'm just basically using the 6 to 8 months old( is what I meant to put) as a time line to make sure I'm ready.And feed along with. The question there was exacly what you stated. I really don't know. Do yall feed along with the meals on a daily basis rotating days. 

Now for another question while I've got some attention. LOL What about mixing raw game in the diet. I'm an avid hunter most years but never make use of all of my game tags. I can take 6 deer a year here in Louisiana but I never take over 2 because hononstly we never eat any more than that. I also duck hunt and was wandering would this compare to chicken in protein and such. I realize wild ducks wouldn't have the fat content of farm raised chicken. My main question in all of this is some people seem to emphasize the never freezing of there food. But to make use of the 6 game tags(deer), the ducks, and wild hog's I sometimes trap and hunt. Will freezing the food hurt the vitamins and protein levels in the food and will I have to do any thing to supplement for this.

I'm gona continue in my reading and research. Thanks for the answers for now and in the future.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jason Moore said:


> Why do people feed raw along with kibble. Right now I'm feeding Diamond Naturals xtreme energy to my AB puppies. I've been thinking about going to raw but I'd rather wate until at least 6 or 8 months and do some more research to gain some knowledge on the subject.


I saw the "Extreme Athlete" formula and took a peek at it. (I was curious.) It has higher energy density than most kibbles (even grain-free kibble). This higher energy density is obtained from fat. This is appropriate for a canine athlete.

HOWEVER, I'm not saying this is some great food. Continue reading down the label. "cracked pearled barley, powdered cellulose, beet pulp, ..., natural chicken flavor"

I am not a fan of grain in dog food. I am even LESS in favor of "sawdust." Food grade cellulose powders are made from wood pulp. Cellulose cannot be digested by mammals (except indirectly digested by ruminants).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose
http://www.nbent.com/use.htm

Beet pulp is another fibrous filler that I don't want to see in my dog's food.

"Natural chicken flavor" has me about as stumped as the food that lists "prayer" in the ingredient list. I don't understand why it is in this food, except if there is so much filler that the food would otherwise be unpalatable. This seems unliekly given the amount of fat in the food. 

I think you can make a raw diet as good (or better) than this kibble and still maintain the same or higher energy density. If you are interested in trying it, there are couple people on the board (Connie!) that can answer your questions.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I feed both raw and kibble. Sometimes separate meals, and sometimes in the same meal. I know according to the purists this is a big “no-no”, but I have found it works for my dogs. I can feed a dog raw in the morning and kibble in the afternoon, and not see the same weight gain (some of my dogs are hard keepers) that I’ll see if I feed them the same food combined into one meal. As far as why I feed both, I just like to. Some people rotate their kibbles, I like to give my dogs variety in this way. I've tried going all raw and wasn't happy with the results, I've done all kibble, and for my dogs the combination seems to work the best.

I also feed the Diamond extreme athlete, finally found a food that keeps the weight on all my hard keepers, and actually wouldn’t recommend it for puppies. I have a 3.5 month old Mali right now who I’m feeding something else to, I find that the foods like the extreme athlete are too much for a pup, and can result in issues with the feet and pasterns.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jason Moore said:


> What about mixing raw game in the diet. I'm an avid hunter most years but never make use of all of my game tags. I can take 6 deer a year here in Louisiana but I never take over 2 because hononstly we never eat any more than that. I also duck hunt and was wandering would this compare to chicken in protein and such. I realize wild ducks wouldn't have the fat content of farm raised chicken. My main question in all of this is some people seem to emphasize the never freezing of there food. But to make use of the 6 game tags(deer), the ducks, and wild hog's I sometimes trap and hunt. Will freezing the food hurt the vitamins and protein levels in the food and will I have to do any thing to supplement for this.


I don't believe freezing the food depletes it. I have yet to meet a raw-feeder who does not freeze food.

Game is a good way to add variety and reduce the cost. Hopefully, you have a vet that you can get straight answers from about any health / parasite concerns. "If I feed "this" food, is there any parasite my dog can get if I worm with X product, at Y dose, at Z frequency?"

The best way to get started is to explore your resources. Where can you get RMBs, and at what prices. It pays off to be friends with the butcher! I have a hard time finding chicken backs, but yesterday I got a call at work from the butcher - they had 30 pounds of chicken backs, plus hearts and livers for me.

If you can be more specific on what animal / animal parts you are considering feeding, I can get some nutrition analysis for you. 

Not saying this is the best way... I've been working on improving the way I feed raw. Right now, I figure out a couple "base" meats, that are:

cheap
readily available
correct calcium : phosphorus ratio
include organ meat
With these, I get the major nutritional requirements met. Then, I add in "variety" which can change according to whatever I have on hand. This is a small part of the diet - rarely more than 1/8 c. per 1 lb of RMB. This list is only a few examples:

plain yogurt
cottage cheese
berries, apples
food items destined for the compost pile
vegetables
cooked oatmeal
fermented plant matter
eggs
supplements, if needed (many raw feeders include salmon oil and vitamin E, I do not unless an individual dog seems to need it)
One other note - with raw feeding, you will never have to worry about your dog not getting enough protein. Cross that off your list of things to figure out about raw diet.


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

Kadi you said with the foods like extreme athlete you think it could lead to probelms with feet and pasterns. Why is this? Because of the high fat that could result in to much weight gain. I started with the diamond puppy formula and have been working torwards the extreme because it had it listed as an al ages feed and as being a natural feed. Also the guy I got my male pup from was feeding Canidae all ages grain free. Would this cause the same problem. Or what. I work at a hardware/feed store and can get my hands on most types of feed at whole sale prices so this deffinatly helps. Vet supplies as well.


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

Anne thanks as well I will talk with you some about the amounts and where to get the value of which each food has. On what all vitamins I'll need to add with what food and such. 

As far as Connie goes I've already read several of her posts as well as she's answered several of mine. I'm sure I'll be picking all of your brains for help as time goes by. Thanks again every one.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jason Moore said:


> Kadi you said with the foods like extreme athlete you think it could lead to probelms with feet and pasterns. Why is this? Because of the high fat that could result in to much weight gain. ...


Sorry to jump in on this one (slap me Kadi!) 

When an energy dense kibble food is fed, nutritional defieciencies can develop because the dog eats less food to meet it's energy requirements. So if the food has the nutrients required for maintenance in 1 cup, but the dog eats 1/2 of that, it's getting only 1/2 of the nutrients it needs. I hope that make sense.

Development of feet and pasterns has more to do with calcium, phosphorus and magnesium. I don't have enough information on the food or about the nutritional requirements to say more than that.



> On what all vitamins I'll need to add with what food and such.


It is unlikely that you would need to add pill/powder supplements, unless you choose to add salmon oil and vitamin E or don't include enough variety in the diet.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Annie did a good job with it  Also the Extreme Athlete is a lot denser of a food then Canidae's all life stages, I'm actually surprised EA is being listed as an all life stages food. I only feed it to the dogs who are actively working/hard keepers. The pup and the retired dogs eat something else, if I fed them EA even close to recommended amounts they would ballon up to 100 lbs in not time  

Each dog is different though, I've had pups do great on one food, then other pups not do well on the same one. Different dogs, or different formula's, don't know. I just know I have a short list of foods I've had success with, and if I see flat feet or down pasterns I switch to something different and see how that works. I like an "average" adult food for pups, not to dense but not a low-cal food either.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> I have yet to meet a raw-feeder who does not freeze food.


The enzymes and the main unstable micronutrient (B5) that can be degraded by freezing also happen to be pretty ubiquitous. Feed an occasional unfrozen meal and feed variety (the biggy) and you're all set.

JMO!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> The enzymes and the main unstable micronutrient (B5) that can be degraded by freezing also happen to be pretty ubiquitous. Feed an occasional unfrozen meal and feed variety (the biggy) and you're all set.
> 
> JMO!


Connie - do you have any links / info on that? Is it in SACN? (I just bought the 4th edition.) PM is fine. TY in advance!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> Connie - do you have any links / info on that? Is it in SACN? (I just bought the 4th edition.) PM is fine. TY in advance!


I don't know. It was in some seminar notes. I'll see what I can find. You mean on the prevalence of B5 or the problem with freezing it?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I don't know. It was in some seminar notes. I'll see what I can find. You mean on the prevalence of B5 or the problem with freezing it?



BTW, again, it's in many of the variety foods you listed (and which are not frozen). I pretty much consider it a non-issue unless the dog gets zero variety _and_ never gets unfrozen food.


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

Well as for frozen it would not be an every day thing. Because I would deffinatly include variety. Other wise I would stick with kibble. The only thing that would get frozen would be deer,duck, and wild hog. I would buy fresh chicken, turkey, and beef. And I intended on mixing it up along with the neccasary vegatables. That has been one of the big decisions in looking about feeding raw is variety. We were talking about it and I've thought about it a little but all I've ever heard around here is staying with the same or you will either develop finicky eaters or tear there stomach up. So it was just easier to stay with what I knew.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jason Moore said:


> .... all I've ever heard around here is staying with the same or you will either develop finicky eaters or tear there stomach up. ....


Terrible advice, IMHO.

Considering that these animals are scavengers and omnivores (although far to the carnivore side of the spectrum), there is no justification for saying that they should be fed the same food every meal forever. And there is plenty of justification for saying that they should not.

If I fed kibble, I would mix that up, too.


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

when feeding chicken is it best to debone them. Or what. That is also something every one says around here. For fear of them choking on them. I don't want to bother yall to much I'll do some more research before asking to many more questions.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jason Moore said:


> when feeding chicken is it best to debone them. Or what. That is also something every one says around here. For fear of them choking on them. I don't want to bother yall to much I'll do some more research before asking to many more questions.


Please DO ask questions. This is an IMPORTANT one!

Leave the bone in. When feeding raw, you are not feeding "raw meat." You are feeding "raw meaty bones." This is absolutely essential. Without feeding bones, it is impossible provide certain nutrients essentail for maintenance and most specifically - the developing skeletal system of a young dog. 

When thinking of a "raw meaty bone," think of a chicken back or chicken neck, NOT of a big leg bone. Raw meaty bones are approx 30 - 40% bone and 60 - 70% meat/other, and the dog consumes the bone portion entirely. The dog will chew the bone, not choke.

It is essential that the bone is raw - not cooked, smoked, or dried.


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

K thanks anne your right on with that chicken leg thing. lol thats mainly what I was thinking of. Didn't know if that applied as well.


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

Anne Vaini said:


> Sorry to jump in on this one (slap me Kadi!)
> 
> When an energy dense kibble food is fed, nutritional defieciencies can develop because the dog eats less food to meet it's energy requirements. So if the food has the nutrients required for maintenance in 1 cup, but the dog eats 1/2 of that, it's getting only 1/2 of the nutrients it needs. I hope that make sense.
> 
> ...


Sorry I didn't acknowledge this sooner as I read it my mind wandered further on to the next question. LOL Thanks and yes I do understand. I will continue the puppy food with it as well. Although it does have grain in it for right now until I either start putting raw in with it or find some of the canidae through one of our suppliers. I've been mixing some ground deer in with there feed once a day instead of the usual canned dog food(purina puppy formula). Also do different parts of the animal have more nutritional value than other parts?


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jason Moore said:


> Also do different parts of the animal have more nutritional value than other parts?


I would say "differing" nutritional value, not "more." 

Muscle meat
Organ meat
Skin/separating fat
Bone
Other - connective tissue, hair, scales, whatever...
You'll see differing nutritional values between the parts of the animal. But if you are comparing "apples to apples", you'll find nearly identical nutritional values. At least - this is what I have found so far, but the data I can get is limited to animals/food items intended for human consumption.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jason, please don't let Anne's advice about de-boning slip by. A no-bone raw meat diet (meaning no calcium) is a nutritional disaster, and will, among other very bad things, seriously damage forming skeletal structure and growing teeth. Taken to extreme, over time it can be (and probably will be) fatal. Sadly, it is usually discovered this way: the pup starts fracturing bones during normal play. That osteoporosis is not "fixable," and can only be halted in its progression when discovered.

You mentioned mixing ground deer in with kibble. If you mean muscle meat, then no, that is not a good idea. The commercial food is phosphorous/calcium balanced, and deer plus bones is, but ground deer meat is not. 

I don't mean to jump on you, but feeding the correct calcium/phosphorous ratio to a puppy whose body is trying to lay down bone and grow new teeth is critical. Nature does a wonderful job with RMBs, organ meat, etc. We humans can really screw it up when we play around with it. 


P.S. Adult dogs can live and even thrive on a lot of different diets. Puppies need what they need, or they cannot develop right.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> .... think of a chicken back ....


My very favorite beginner-RMB, with nice soft cartilage-y bones and even a tiny bonus bit of kidney stuck on. I always start a dog on raw with backs (removing the skin the first couple of days).


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

No. Thank you for correcting me. Connie. If any one see's any thing I do wrong weather it be training or feeding habbits that I post about. Feel free to correct me the only thing I ask in return is exactly what you did a reason why. Thank you. This is why for now I'm probably gona stick with kibble untill I feel comfortable in my knowledge of the subject. Thanks guys.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jason Moore said:


> No. Thank you for correcting me. Connie. If any one see's any thing I do wrong weather it be training or feeding habbits that I post about. Feel free to correct me the only thing I ask in return is exactly what you did a reason why. Thank you. This is why for now I'm probably gona stick with kibble untill I feel comfortable in my knowledge of the subject. Thanks guys.


You might want to find a raw-feeder in your area. I didn't "get it" until I got some hands-on at a kennel that feeds raw. I started my dogs on raw right away after that - it made sense! I don't feed the same way that I learned, but it gave me a solid foundation to not-screw-up-my-dog until I learned about it. I started out with a don't-confuse-me-with-the-facts attitude. I was confused by a lot of different thigns. Now I'm having fun finding evidence to verify or debunk what I learned. In doing this, I'm seeing a lot of misinformation out there surrounding home-prepared and raw diets!

Feel free to throw more questions at us!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jason Moore said:


> No. Thank you for correcting me. Connie. If any one see's any thing I do wrong weather it be training or feeding habbits that I post about. Feel free to correct me the only thing I ask in return is exactly what you did a reason why. Thank you. This is why for now I'm probably gona stick with kibble untill I feel comfortable in my knowledge of the subject. Thanks guys.


There are also a couple (maybe more) very inexpensive, clear, and accessible raw feeding books that if you would like link to, just PM me.

And yes, feel free to throw questions at us.


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## greg wilson (Mar 17, 2009)

> think of a chicken back or chicken neck, NOT of a big leg bone


Anne,

I've had my 2 yr old AB on the raw diet for about 6 months and about 60-70% of his meals are chicken quarters. Are you saying the chicken leg bone is to much? Or are you referring to wheight bearing bones on larger animals?

And the hook in the fish guts is right on, I have found a couple in the guts and a few deep in the fish mouth or throat.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

greg wilson said:


> Anne,
> 
> I've had my 2 yr old AB on the raw diet for about 6 months and about 60-70% of his meals are chicken quarters. Are you saying the chicken leg bone is to much? Or are you referring to wheight bearing bones on larger animals?
> 
> And the hook in the fish guts is right on, I have found a couple in the guts and a few deep in the fish mouth or throat.


I don't start like to start the dog on weight-bearing bones, even chicken. But once the bone-processing enzymes kick in, many folks do feed quarters.

I don't know whether you will read this or find it to be commonplace, but I have one dog who pooped out chunks of leg bones, so I started not giving him unground leg bones.


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## greg wilson (Mar 17, 2009)

Thanks Connie,

I keep a pretty close eye on his stool and have never seen any undigested bones that would concern me. So I guess at this time he's handling it ok but i'll keep an eye on it.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jason, I like you was concerned with doing it right. However I also didn't want to posion my puppy either (think Chinese pet food). I also felt that the puppy years where so important in development, so RMB would provide much better nutrition for a growing puppy. 

So I used The Honest Kitchen (THK) everyday for two meals and chicken, turkey, egg, organ, etc. for the third meal. I also used the Salmon Oil and Vit. E. It worked out very well. Now he's 2.5 yrs. and feed two meals, one usually being THK and the other RMB's. I found it to be an easy way of providing proper nutrition and not to concern about screwing it up. THK can be expensive, but when you break it down (all the proper additives) it not too bad. As a side benefit, his teeth are pearly white and the coat is awsome. No allergy issues (nock on wood).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Edward Egan said:


> Jason, I like you was concerned with doing it right. However I also didn't want to posion my puppy either (think Chinese pet food). I also felt that the puppy years where so important in development, so RMB would provide much better nutrition for a growing puppy.
> 
> So I used The Honest Kitchen (THK) everyday for two meals and chicken, turkey, egg, organ, etc. for the third meal. I also used the Salmon Oil and Vit. E. It worked out very well. Now he's 2.5 yrs. and feed two meals, one usually being THK and the other RMB's. I found it to be an easy way of providing proper nutrition and not to concern about screwing it up. THK can be expensive, but when you break it down (all the proper additives) it not too bad. As a side benefit, his teeth are pearly white and the coat is awsome. No allergy issues (nock on wood).


THK is a wonderful "bridge" to complete raw (fine for the basis of a permanent diet too!). I think it's a great product, and I keep it for travel and just to add some variety (by mixing some into a thin "gravy" and throwing it on top of the raw diet). I agree that adding RMBs to THK makes for a diet that would be hard to screw up. 

I am not an advocate of kibble mixed with raw. THK, as you know, is not kibbled, but low-heat dehydrated, and great for adding RMBs to.


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

Hi Jason,

With puppies I feed kibble in the mornings for tracking training and RMBs at night with K9 Puppy Gold Supplement, some ground veggies, yoghurt, salmon oil and flexile plus (a glucosamine + chondrotin supplement). 

I feed a lot of chicken necks to puppies as they can easily be used as rewards. I also feed Natures Variety raw patties and grind up beef and lamb meat and bones. I have also fed deer meat from our local processor. I used to have a friend who raised rabbits, so I fed quite a bit of those as their bones are pretty small and easy for puppies. 

By 6 months, my puppies are mostly on raw, with some kibble, BliJac or Natural Balance rolls for tracking / training treats.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

greg wilson said:


> Anne,
> 
> I've had my 2 yr old AB on the raw diet for about 6 months and about 60-70% of his meals are chicken quarters. Are you saying the chicken leg bone is to much? Or are you referring to wheight bearing bones on larger animals?


I previously used chicken leg quarter as the main food item. The dogs did "fine", but after I looked into the nutritional analysis, I see it's a little low in calcium and phosphorus. Chicken leg quarter is 27% bone. (I stated wrongly on the board recently that it is approx 17% bone.) The backs and necks are 30 - 40% bone.

Some (many) dogs tolerate it well, but I wouldn't want to see a puppy or young dog having the leg quarter as the primary RMB. 

If you can get a good source, necks and backs are considerably cheaper. That's enough reason for me!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> Some (many) dogs tolerate it well, but I wouldn't want to see a puppy or young dog having the leg quarter as the primary RMB.


Added to the calcium count, not all dogs digest the weight-bearing bones completely (as I know, purely anecdotally).

It's just another point for giving the whole small prey (over time), which in its entirety is balanced. If not, it's best to give parts that replicate the whole prey animal.

As Anne says, it's hard to beat backs for a replicate part. You can add muscle meat when they are particularly non-meaty ones.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Added to the calcium count, not all dogs digest the weight-bearing bones completely (as I know, purely anecdotally).


A little OT - is this because of the individual dog or the food item? Do we know? Does it matter? Can incomplete digestion of bone be induced (in order to work towards determining the cause(s)?)


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Anne Vaini said:


> A little OT - is this because of the individual dog or the food item? Do we know? Does it matter? Can incomplete digestion of bone be induced (in order to work towards determining the cause(s)?)


It's all in the poop! I remember when I began feeding RMB's I would see a few peices of bone in the poo, I was concerned. However they seem to be digested completely after a short time. I think the digestive system just needed to adapt.
I also believe it can depend on the dog. Does the dog chew and cruch well? I friend with a 2.5 year old Mal doesn't seem to chew that well, and on occation would deposit large chunks of bone.

I have wondered weither starting a pup out on RMB's conditions them to crunch it up better as an adult, learned behavior if you will?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> A little OT - is this because of the individual dog or the food item? Do we know? Does it matter? Can incomplete digestion of bone be induced (in order to work towards determining the cause(s)?)



I don't know. I just noted that thigh bones were the only bones that came back out still partly recognizable. From that, I assumed that weight-bearing bones (which are far denser than most other bones) might be less digestible for at least one dog, and I doubted that I happened to own the only one in the world. :lol:

The store where I buy poultry will do anything the customer wants for no charge, so now I have the back end ground up (bones and all, of course) into a chunky grind (they call it "chili grind) and I leave the rest intact.

I could also have ground just the leg bones for him, or added a bit of calcium (but I am NOT a fan of screwing with calcium supplements for dogs), or given him all but legs. I took a simple route. (I call ahead; that's the only effort on my part. They will even grind in the livers if I want.)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Edward Egan said:


> It's all in the poop! I remember when I began feeding RMB's I would see a few peices of bone in the poo, I was concerned. However they seem to be digested completely after a short time. I think the digestive system just needed to adapt.
> I also believe it can depend on the dog. Does the dog chew and cruch well?


None of mine chew. They inhale. :lol: 

But yes, I agree 100% that bone-digesting kicks in gradually over a week or two, even three (occasionally). Much observing has taught me that. 

This dog's never kicked in as much as most.

He's in wonderful health, though, and he looks great for a senior. Maybe it had something to do with his age when I acquired and switched him (already a senior).


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## Heather Arlinghaus (Oct 7, 2008)

I also use the Honest Kitchen varieties, but recently switched to Sojos premixed raw. The Sojos can be stored for a longer duration in the frig and can be mixed and soaked in advance, so I don't have to spend my busy mornings making dog food fresh! I am very happy with both products.


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