# Speaking of Coyotes...



## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

So on my way out the door I look out and saw one of the herds of elk that frequents my area. This is the small herd that runs through my backyard (literally)

I grabbed my camera and took a few pictures. Sorry some of them are fuzzy, camera is a POS
Then they relaxed and just watched the hillside it had gone over for a while:




























And then they started to spook, but they were not looking at me. I walked around the side of the house and saw this:










That is the only picture I managed to get as the elk and the coyote were moving too quickly for my camera to stop being stupid (I hate digital delay) but this lone coyote actually went after a mature cow elk. It got kicked and took off. 

There is a larger herd (60+) that runs this area near my house, also. So, who wants to hunt with me this year?


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Me me me! I used to hunt elk in CO every year but have not done so in the last 5 years and really miss it.


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Wow that is crazy. It must be beautiful where you are. Where are you located??


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Sams Valley, Oregon. 18 miles or so from Medford, Oregon. My brother, father, and I are avid hunters and we fill our tags every year. We are going to get bear and cougar tags this year. My brother and I have been keeping tabs on a herd in the Cascades where I used to live (Prospect, Oregon) that has the biggest bull I have ever seen with my own eyes, a HUGE 6x7 Roosevelt bull.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

they look to be well within rifle range...if i was in your place i'd be aiming my carbine instead of my camera. i love coyote hunting. i call them whenever possible, many counties in VA have bounties on them. they are terrorizing the livestock and chicken farms and are starting to do serious damage to the ecosystem around here. i took 4 this week and that's more than enough to pay for the new coyote call i bought and some shiny new parts for my coyote rifle.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

You weren't kidding when you said you had game all around were you Jennifer? Great pictures and to get them with a coyote hunting is special. Now that you have a camera that works maybe......LOL


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Oh they were pretty close, about 50-60 yards or so. I have to call the landlord before I shoot anything with the big guns, they have some very expensive stallions at the barn (friesians, saddlebreds, arabians) and if I spook one and it hurts itself I'm out of a house! The only exception is when the cats start coming down the hill, or the bears. 

Torched off the .444 at a cat last year but it doesn't have a scope and I don't shoot that rifle enough to be good on the fly at dusk with open sights. I only think I'm tough until I pull up that bad boy and he reminds me that I'm a girl. I sold my stevens .22 250 to help pay some debt and wish I hadn't.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Don Turnipseed said:


> You weren't kidding when you said you had game all around were you Jennifer? Great pictures and to get them with a coyote hunting is special. Now that you have a camera that works maybe......LOL


LOL the camera I have SUCKS but I can't afford to fix my good camera (I have an old school film camera, 2000 Elan II with 3 lenses) or get the camera I really want (Rebel T1i) ... but my new years resolution is to take advantage of some older rich guy... :-o:lol: 

Yes there is wildlife everywhere. I run over a hare 3-4 nights a week just going down my driveway at like 15 mph. Stupid freaking animals don't move. 

If you go to the hillside behind my house you will see less than week old bear, cougar, elk, deer, bobcat, coyote, and "big dog" tracks (though no dogs are ever seen there)


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

i think that .444 would make anybody feel less than tough. no shame in it. nasty recoil on those big bore rifles. i hunt the yotes with either an AR in 223 that i built just for yotes, or if we're calling them longer than 150-175 yards i use my .243 that i built on a savage bolt action. .444 is too much for my skinny lightweight self, but then again i dont hunt elk so i have no need to deal with it. those big bore rifles will knock your fillings lose.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

It's my brother's gun, he has the Marlin XLR .444: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Images/photo_336xlr.jpg

It has a pussy pad on it but yeah it's like getting kicked by a percheron with rubber shoes.

The only gun I currently own was an Xmas gift, a Neos U22 (Beretta). I've shot my brother's .44 mag and a friend's 45/70 and decided I like smaller caliber weapons. Some day I want a 308 MXLR for my all purpose hunting rifle, and another .22 250 varmint gun.

My brother is skilled at making weapons .. quieter.. than they should be. So I used to shoot stuff out my kitchen window. Heh.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Here is a shot of one of the Fallow Deer bucks that a rancher down the road has. The guy has a herd of 50+ Fallow Deer he raises for meat and "just because." Until recently he had LSGs with the herd but in the last year he lost all of his dogs to cougars. There are 4 in my area, a mom with 2 juveniles, and a big tom.
Watched a guy take one out with a longbow a few weeks ago. Wasn't expecting it, just sitting watching the herd and THWACK, a 3 foot long arrow skewered a doe, sticking out both ends of her. Usually they just walk up to one and shoot it in the head.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

You might need a .700 nitro express. I've never shot one, but I enjoy watching this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ged4lz_Fw2Y


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

One of those trees in the background could hide a bowhunter. Wish you weren't so far away, I'd come out and get me one of them cows. Got no room in the house for an bull Elk mount. All I can fit is my deer and an otter mount. Gotta get out of the city when I retire.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Oh come on, you don't want a bull like this?

2008 bull. And yes I dressed like that on purpose. I butcher what I harvest so I wear my crappiest clothes.











My small 2008 buck


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Yea, go ahead and rub it in. Send some meat over to the Lyda residence in April, will ya?

If'n I had a fresh kill in the living room like that my wife would have a coronary. She barely tolerates my clean mounts.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Heh that's our hanging shed  That's why the carpet is red! I hang and skin in the shed and take the skinned quarters into the house to cut up on the table in the living room.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

There ya go again....Ohhhhh!, a hanging shed. 

I'm just jealous. Ignore the flatlander.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I even have a working two door Pepsi cooler (like you get soda out of from convenience stores) big enough to hang a buck. I can keep my kill at 40 degrees until it's perfectly aged. 

I love getting big groups together and hunting. I know where all the big boys are hiding. Elk and deer, that is.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

It appears you're bucking to be the host of next years WDF gathering. Schedule it for hunting season (early), I can only stand so much cold.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> It's my brother's gun, he has the Marlin XLR .444: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Images/photo_336xlr.jpg
> 
> It has a pussy pad on it but yeah it's like getting kicked by a percheron with rubber shoes.
> 
> ...


 
The 308 is my favorite. Mine's a Winchester model 88 lever action. I haven't hunted in a lot of years, but it'll take anything in North America.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> We are going to get bear and cougar tags this year.


 I hope you guys don't plan to hunt cougars because there aren't many of them out there. It is considered on the endangered list.
http://www.earthsendangered.com/search-regions3.asp


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Howard Knauf said:


> It appears you're bucking to be the host of next years WDF gathering. Schedule it for hunting season (early), I can only stand so much cold.


Doesn't get too bad here. But that is coming from someone that lived through 6 winters in Wisconsin. Eep not for me. Hunting season doesn't usually see cold weather here, days are in the 60's and 70s nights are 40s.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Lindsay Janes said:


> I hope you guys don't plan to hunt cougars because there aren't many of them out there. It is considered on the endangered list.
> http://www.earthsendangered.com/search-regions3.asp


 
Lindsay, it is legal game in this state. It is rare to actually fill a cougar tag because they are difficult to hunt without dogs. State of Oregon is considering opening bear and cougar up to dogs again, I am hoping they do.

Have you ever had to deal with cougars face to face? I have, I have been stalked by them, lost a dog to one 8 years ago and a friend's foal that same year. I know a lot of people that have lost livestock or dogs from the cats. Where I live they are NOT endangered, there are 4 of them in my area alone which is close to schools and I am surrounded by ranches. 

I love wildlife, nothing should be hunted to extinction and populations should be managed carefully, but we do not lack in the big cats here.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/cougar/


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> Have you ever had to deal with cougars face to face? I have, I have been stalked by them, lost a dog to one 8 years ago and a friend's foal that same year. I know a lot of people that have lost livestock or dogs from the cats. Where I live they are NOT endangered, there are 4 of them in my area alone which is close to schools and I am surrounded by ranches.
> 
> I love wildlife, nothing should be hunted to extinction and populations should be managed carefully, but we do not lack in the big cats here.
> 
> http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/cougar/


 I haven't come face to face with cougars, but I saw a mountain lion in my backyard a few summers ago. We had a swimming pool and it jumped over to drink water. I used to live about five minutes from Sabino Canyon Recreation Area. The rangers had to close the park a few times because the mountain lions were targeting and attacking hikers.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sorry the picture of the elk didn't work. This is a picture one of our neighbors snapped of our resident cougar with her cub:


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I could send you some wolves. The wolves will attack the hunting dogs and therby deter the hunting of cougars for that area. About three weeks ago and twenty miles away, there was one dog killed and two others injured by wolves during a mountail lion hunt.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

'Kay, I got the word out..._get ready!_

Wolf sightings on rise in Oregon Cascades


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

There was a reason that wolves were hunted almost out of existence. People will have to learn the hard way, as they are too ****ing dumb to see what and why it happened in the past.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Does .223 ring a bell? Coyotes? We ain' got no stinking....


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There was a reason that wolves were hunted almost out of existence. People will have to learn the hard way, as they are too ****ing dumb to see what and why it happened in the past.


That reason was, we moved in on their territory and got pissed when they ran into us or our livestock. Still not a reason to wipe them off the face of the earth but that is what us white folk do isn't it? Just ask the Native Americans who coexisted with them just fine, for thousands of years before the white man rolled in like a cockroach infestation, demolishing all in his path.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I just don't have a problem with the strong stomping out the weak. It is not yours if someone can take it. You can romanticize the indians all you want, I look at it as they just were not strong enough to hold their shit.

Then again, my ancestors came from a cold place and went about trading and taking peoples shit. What do I know about diplomacy and political correctness.

Kinda like Iraq. I would just take all the oil out of that country, and let them fight over the dust. **** em.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

There have been wolves here for years, I am not concerned with wolves, Coyotes are far worse. I lived in the Cascades and know people that shot wolves and saw a few myself. 

There are wolves in more areas than the government will openly admit, it's been kept on "the DL" for as long as it could be to prevent people from freaking out. If a wild predator attacks or kills people, livestock, or pets, then the problem animals should be taken care of, otherwise I don't really care. Unless its a coyote. I'll shoot them all damn day.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Lindsay Janes said:


> I haven't come face to face with cougars, but I saw a *mountain lion* in my backyard a few summers ago. .


Mountain lion and cougar are 2 names for the exact same animal. If you've seen one you've seen them both.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Mountain lion/cougar/catamont/puma/Florida panther/painter
All the same


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I live in a place with lots of bears, cougars, coyotes..OH MY! 

Heaven forbid that anyone should enter the wilds without a gun :roll: I love that people are terrified of this stuff. Less crowded that way.


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> That reason was, we moved in on their territory and got pissed when they ran into us or our livestock. Still not a reason to wipe them off the face of the earth but that is what us white folk do isn't it? Just ask the Native Americans who coexisted with them just fine, for thousands of years before the white man rolled in like a cockroach infestation, demolishing all in his path.


That's just silliness. The tribes "coexisted" with them only because they didn't have effective means (firearms) to do otherwise. Do you really think the little indian babies who got carried off became North American Mowglis?

I know of a sheep farmer in Minnesota who in one season lost 90 lambs (almost $10,000) when a wolf pack moved into the neighborhood. And unlike coyote kills, the wolves leave no carcass to present to the government for recompense. Almost put her out of business. Think about that next time you are enjoying a lamb chop.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I just don't have a problem with the strong stomping out the weak. It is not yours if someone can take it. You can romanticize the indians all you want, I look at it as they just were not strong enough to hold their shit.
> 
> Then again, my ancestors came from a cold place and went about trading and taking peoples shit. What do I know about diplomacy and political correctness.
> 
> Kinda like Iraq. I would just take all the oil out of that country, and let them fight over the dust. **** em.



My best buddies wife (love her to death but a real tree hugger) is always on my ass when I talk about thinning out the deer on their 100 acres with their million dollar house. 
She always makes the comment that they were here first. I said if she's that concerned about who was here first she should give her land back to the indians. 
Shuts her up for a couple of days anyway. 
She was in love with the coyotes that hung around the place till they started stalking her Yorkie. 
I helped thin out a couple of those.....with her blessing. Go figure! :lol::lol::lol:


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> She was in love with the coyotes that hung around the place till they started stalking her Yorkie.


LMAO! I saw a documentary about suburban coyote populations which claimed that 80% of their diet consisted of people's pets, mostly cats but also smaller dogs, rabbits, anything they could grab and drag off. I personally know one person whose maltese was grabbed and mangled by a coyote(they scared him off and he dropped the dog), and another whose standard poodle was stalked by a couple of coyotes at a park. And this is in the city, not even that close to any undeveloped land.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Them little dogs are already in catch pens (yards) so the coyotes don't really have to work that hard. :lol:


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## Anna Van Kovn (Aug 24, 2009)

Anna Kasho said:


> LMAO! I saw a documentary about suburban coyote populations which claimed that 80% of their diet consisted of people's pets, mostly cats but also smaller dogs, rabbits, anything they could grab and drag off. I personally know one person whose maltese was grabbed and mangled by a coyote(they scared him off and he dropped the dog), and another whose standard poodle was stalked by a couple of coyotes at a park. And this is in the city, not even that close to any undeveloped land.


I live in Los Angeles and I take my dogs almost every morning for a walk to the Franklyn canyon park( in the middle of the city). My dog is always on the leash. I seen a lot of coyotes and they never bother us. However, I witnessed when female coyote lured a medium sized dog (dog was not on the leash) into the bushes and then the dog never comeback...
In the bushes were more coyotes waiting for easy prey. It is interesting , that there sign everywhere in the park saying to keep dogs on the leashes but people never do. The couple who owned that poor dog asked me to send my dog for rescue.. No way I would ever do anything like this.
I have a question for people who live in wildlife areas with coyotes and mountain lions . Do you take your dogs off leash on walking in the wildlife. What a chances for a 2 big dogs 80-100 lbs get attacked by pack of coyotes or mountain lion ?


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Stephanie P Johnson said:


> That's just silliness. The tribes "coexisted" with them only because they didn't have effective means (firearms) to do otherwise. Do you really think the little indian babies who got carried off became North American Mowglis?
> 
> I know of a sheep farmer in Minnesota who in one season lost 90 lambs (almost $10,000) when a wolf pack moved into the neighborhood. And unlike coyote kills, the wolves leave no carcass to present to the government for recompense. Almost put her out of business. Think about that next time you are enjoying a lamb chop.


LOL oh really? A bow and arrow they can take down Bison with, but can't kill a wolf? I'm sure hords of little red children were gobbled up. (laughing so hard it hurts)

So the wolves hid or ate all 90 lambs? Must have been a really huge pack (to eat them all) or really hi tech wolves (to have the forsight to hide the evidence). For the record, lamb chops are ****ing disgusting. The smell of mutton makes me sick. I'll take a good elk steak or backstrap any day. Blek, whool maggots make me cringe.

Controling a population is one thing, riding an area of problem animals (bears that eat out of dumpsters, wolves that prey on livestock, coyotes picking off pets or any animal posing a threat to human life) needs to see the pointy end of a bullet. However cleaning out a whole population of animals for the mistakes of a few is just retarded. OMG we should just rid the oceans of the Great White so we can all swim fear free. [-X

No wolves here in CA but you still have to watch for Mountain Lion, Bear, and an assload of Coyotes if you raise livestock. It's a chance you take ranching anywhere. Shit, snakes will put a hurt to your pocket book or the neighbors dogs that run lose. You shoot the ones you see going after your stock, not get a lynch mob after them all.


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> LOL oh really? A bow and arrow they can take down Bison with, but can't kill a wolf?
> 
> >>>Are you suggesting that we debate the effectiveness of guns vs primitive weaponry?
> 
> ...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

In all things there must be a balance struck. 

Certainly the eradication of all predatory species is not the answer, nor is ignoring the ranchers' plight. Man evolved from the club to arrow to fire arm and continues to evolve beyond that, we now recognize it's shortsighted and destructive to put nature out of balance. Hell, hunters are the original conservation specialists, the last thing they want is the extinction of species, they understand how necessary wildlife management is.

A big part of the problem was touched on already, by Darryl, a lot of city people (not just Californians unfortunately) are in loooooove with a romanticized fairytale idea of living amongst the beauty of the wilds, but don't want to deal with the harsher realities living in a wilderness area brings, so they bring the same city they left to the wilderness to make life "safer" and "easier". Sticking a subdivision in the middle of wilderness is stupid and invites trouble as has been demonstrated over and over again.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I live in a place with lots of bears, cougars, coyotes..OH MY!
> 
> Heaven forbid that anyone should enter the wilds without a gun :roll: I love that people are terrified of this stuff. Less crowded that way.


I walk around my place at night all the time knowing there are cats and bears around. The coyotes are a nuissance, I consider them more of a threat because my dogs HATE them and I would rather eliminate the coyotes than patch up my dogs.

I used to hike in the Cascades with my dog and no weapon (I was a teen) all day and into dusk. Rarely had a problem, I was stalked by a cat once, I was walking home after dark, a car pulled off the hwy to the access road to Prospect and I turned my head because I was blinded by the headlights and caught movement behind me, I turned around and a cougar was about 30 feet behind me retreating back into the woods. I hitched a ride with the lady in the car, who saw the cat too. That was unnerving for sure.

I will hunt bear and cougar because I consider it a challenge, and I am a hunter. I don't hate or fear them. I respect them for what they are - large predators.

There are a lot of people that fear and hate large predators. They usually fear dogs at some level, too. People get crazy and stupid when something threatens their idea of humans being the top of the food chain. The thought of something out there that they can't see, hear, smell, or control, that can kill and eat them just freaks them out. Kinda makes me laugh.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Imagine living with prehistoric critters with only a spear. Those people had salt.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> Imagine living with prehistoric critters with only a spear. Those people had salt.


 
I believe most of the prehistoric critters were gone (extinct) before man came along.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I had a feeling......anyway, Wooley Mammoths and sabar tooth tigers, right?


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I think they oughta start a recovery program for the woolies and the dire wolf. With cloning technology and frozen samples from the arctic, they can use the modern descendants as surrogates. They were, after all, _here first_.........!


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> I think they oughta start a recovery program for the woolies and the dire wolf. With cloning technology and frozen samples from the arctic, they can use the modern descendants as surrogates. They were, after all, _here first_.........!


That's a bit overkill Daryl. They are already gone and so are the things they ate.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Well, if you abide by that logic, the native wolves of the Rockies were already extinct in the U.S. The Federal govt. at the behest of "wolf lovers" imported Canadian ones, not even the same. This "invasive species" is much larger and very different in temperament than any kind of wolf in our colonized history of the northwestern states. Other than near the highline borders across to the great lakes, they _never were a part of our ecological habitat_ until we recently brought them here!

I could feed a lot of dogs on a wooly mammoth!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Them Dire wolves sure made good PPDs back in the day! :grin:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Michele Kehoe said,


> LOL oh really? A bow and arrow they can take down Bison with, but can't kill a wolf? I'm sure hords of little red children were gobbled up. (laughing so hard it hurts)


Actually, a bison would be much easier to hit than a wolf to start with. The second thing is yes, probably would be easier to kill a bison quicker than a wolf with a bow. Why? There is no membrane between the lungs of a bison. If the arrow just punctures one side, both lung collapse. I believe there is a membrane dividing the chest in canines, similar to humans. To collapse both lungs, both sides or one side and the membrane have to be punctured.


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