# Early start or not?



## Kristen Roberts (Sep 28, 2010)

I've gotten mixed opinions from a limited source, so I wanted to get on here and ask.

Do you start your puppies out early with foundation obedience, bitework, tracking, etc, and if so, then why?

And for those that start puppies out by letting them "just be a puppy" for the first 6 months, 1 year, etc with very limited foundation training but mostly focus on socialization, why do you wait? 

For each that start out different, what are your reasons and what was the outcome?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I imagine someone who is deep into sport work, and has high hopes starts from day one..to maximize everything...working whatever their program entails...most of which I ASSUME is OB or tracking related...along with bitework imprinting...

Others may just socialize, and do environmental stuff...drive building, hunt drive etc, and start OB informally...or just positively.

In my limited experience, if the dog is good, aside from control work advancements.with drivey headstrong dogs..the bitework can be put on a shelf..depending on the goals...

I guess it depends on your goals and what you personally need out of your dog to satisfy YOU...

I know a several people that took good dogs with 0 work at 18 months and titled to SCH 3 levels without much difficulty...

I personally love the bitework, but all the early shyt may or may not be necessary depending...


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I got an early start with my GSD. We began OB around 4 months, including some corrections. It took a very drivey puppy from jumping over my shoulder from the truck bed in antisapation of training, too a dog that didn't want to go out on the field in 2 months.
I took a little time off and found another club that was mostly motivational, Ivan's methods. This saved my dog, his drives came back.

With my limited experience, based on what happened the first time around, I will most definiantly wait until the pup's 6 mos or so before any formal OB is started, bite work can wait until 9 mos. or so other than tug work.
I the 3 - 6 mos. range I'd just introduce tug play, scent pads, re-call, etc. Mostly just have fun. The other thing I'd do differently is expect better behavior during walks in the 3-6 mos. range. I'd bet it also has to do with the dog/breed, Mal's are supose to mature faster than GSD's for instance. Therefore maybe Mal's can be started in formal OB earlier?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

the craziest thing about this thread is this..

If you ARE NOT expected or looking to get on the podium in sport, above club trial level...AND the dog is GOOD or BETTER, it really does NOT matter..at all IMHO...have fun with your fukkin dog....


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I like to start my dogs early in bite work and short tracks ( if their going to track). I'm not big on doing much obedience with a young dog, just some basics for food and basicly learning manners in the house. The work sessions are always short, postitive and fun. IMO the foundation work focuses the pups energy/drive into something constructive instead of having a high drive pup without an outlet. It's a double edged sword if done correctly by people who can work pups the dog is further along in training by the time it's one year old, but if done incorrectly a pup can be ruined or have a lot of problems to fix.


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

Adam Rawlings said:


> I like to start my dogs early in bite work and short tracks ( if their going to track). I'm not big on doing much obedience with a young dog, just some basics for food and basicly learning manners in the house. The work sessions are always short, postitive and fun. IMO the foundation work focuses the pups energy/drive into something constructive instead of having a high drive pup without an outlet. It's a double edged sword if done correctly by people who can work pups the dog is further along in training by the time it's one year old, but if done incorrectly a pup can be ruined or have a lot of problems to fix.


This is exactly what were doing with my pup. (5mos.old)
I'm taking direction from the trainers in my group & all we do for bite work is make it a game. I stand in the field the helper gets her attention with a whip & big soft tug. he starts running towards the blind & i let her go to chase him around the blind & she bites the tug & brings it back. no fight, just play while shes teething. when she gets back i play with her. still no tugging. 2 quick sessions & shes done. OB is basic manners & here for food. no corrections used. everything is play orientated. if she wasn't into it I would stop but i'm lucky she loves it.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

jeremy anderson said:


> This is exactly what were doing with my pup. (5mos.old)
> I'm taking direction from the trainers in my group & all we do for bite work is make it a game. I stand in the field the helper gets her attention with a whip & big soft tug. he starts running towards the blind & i let her go to chase him around the blind & she bites the tug & brings it back. no fight, just play while shes teething. when she gets back i play with her. still no tugging. 2 quick sessions & shes done. OB is basic manners & here for food. no corrections used. everything is play orientated. if she wasn't into it I would stop but i'm lucky she loves it.



sounds like you're working with somebody who hasn't accomplished anything....


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

we started my mal early. It all about progression....

this is my mal at 11wks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbXz-R-b8Es

This is my mal at one year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxTMO7qBZdU

This is him at two years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D6radaiYpc


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

We start early with drive and bitework. Not so much from a "training" point of view, but rather exposure. We do as many different and varied things as early on as we can. If the pups are up to it we will progress them from biting a suit, sleeve, arm, leg, indoors, outdoors, different helpers, distractions etc.
We are not looking at putting much control, or outs etc into them, just using their drive to expose them to as much different things as we can before their teeth change, then they have a month or two off and then when we come back to training with them we start to train them normally.
Stuff like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UEdYC4zlnA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cD5efwrNlQ&feature=related


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

With marker training I want a sit, down and recall by 12wks old.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> we started my mal early. It all about progression....
> 
> this is my mal at 11wks
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbXz-R-b8Es
> ...


To me it looks like the dog may have peaked at 1 yr, that's the shitty part of videos..too subjective.


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## Leri Hanson (Apr 3, 2008)

For me, the earlier the better. I don't want to sit on a pup for months on end, hoping. I need/want a pup that's ready to rock'n'roll from the get go. Once they're biting good, they move to the suit which also includes an out. OB also starts early...8 weeks is not too soon, imprinting everything possible that will be needed later. 

I've had pups that were slow to start, and washed them around a year. When I saw the same dog around 2.5 years, they were OK. New owners were pleased. I was happy about that AND my decision.

Leri


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

guess I'll have to get some more vid this weekend....


I wasn't really showing the dog but rather the progression of long bites... easy puppy bite...then a long bite that really is a prey bite and then the "courage" bite. I like that he doesn't put on the brakes when he goes in for the bite.


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## Ellen Piepers (Nov 6, 2008)

Here we like to do both: let the pup be a pup most of the time, and have short, fun sessions for the foundation of searching and obedience, and whatever you feel the pup/young dog is ready for.

I agree with this:


Adam Rawlings said:


> IMO the foundation work focuses the pups energy/drive into something constructive instead of having a high drive pup without an outlet.


We shelved the bitework of our pup for nearly a year (no drive building necessary, actually) to focus mainly on search, obedience and other foundation work. That seems to pay off now (X-mas he'll be 2), as he's learned to work together instead of just getting over the top in drives. Not meaning to say that there's no conflict whatsoever in the bite work area, but at least it can be reduced considerably.

But then again, it also depends on the dog and if it starts asking for work (sounds daft, but this one did







)


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I honestly think that tracking and protection is not so important to do at a young age, i.e. 2 months or so. At 6 months tracking - terrific. At 9 months protection terrific.

My mistake with the older dog was not to practice the OB properly at an early age. He has a weight of 40 odd kilos, his focas is extremely good, but in retrospect, I think I could have achieved more by working him earlier.


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