# Starting Heeling Off-Lead or On-Lead?



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

When you start your green dog on heeling, do you train with or without a lead? Do you start with a prong to speed up the positioning or do you start 100% motivational?

Do you proof it with compulsion once the dog knows what to do? Or do you find that starting off-lead motivationally reduces or eliminates the need for proofing with compulsion?

What do you see as the Pro's or Con's of each method?

I have known some trainers to do everything off-lead from day 1, and other trainers that believe in limiting the dogs opportunity to make mistakes by doing everything on-lead.

I personally find that when doing things off-lead it requires the dog to think more about what it is that he does to cause the reward to come, so once he figures it out it "sticks" better. Kinda like a dog that figures out how to steal food from a trash can by using his nose to lift the lid. Once he figures it out the behavior "sticks," whereas if I shove his nose under the trash can lid he will resist the compulsion and not learn as fast.


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## Jane King (Nov 24, 2007)

I have had to go back to the start with my heelwork because when I first got Dill, I just taught him to walk on the lead without pulling and wasn't bothered about his exact position. Off-lead, he naturally lurks just behind my right foot and until I looked into obedience and working trials, I was happy!

I've started from scratch again off-lead, for the same reason - he had to work harder and think about what he is doing. However, I'm startinng with just a few steps at a time and gradually building up. When I re-introduce the lead, my aim is that I won't actually have to use it if he is working to the new 'close' command. Also, it focusses me as the handler, as I don't have the back-up of the lead in my hand, so I find I am using my voice, timing etc., much more effectively because it's all I've got!!!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Start off-lead (in a small space) and 100% motivational. "Proof" in distractions, then add in correction.

In a perfect world, the leash is only a distraction - not a means of restraint.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I have two commands for this, a general "stay with me" for on-leash walking that means hang out somewhere on my left side without stopping or lunging forward, and several formal heel comands for different positions - forward, backward, left side, right side, eye contact, touching my leg... When Cyko's leg was really gimpy I couldn't walk or run him for excersise, so we had plenty of time to learn the "trick OB" stuff at home.

I found it helpful to teach the position before the motion. I stood still and made him figure out where to be to get rewarded, and then put a word with the action, and then taught him to keep position while moving... Coincidentally, he learned the flip finish before he learned to heel, LOL. Sometimes I used a leash to giude him into position, but sometimes the leash restriction just ended up frustrating him - and when he got frustrated, I could see him getting worked up enough to bite me - so I had to time it short and do fun stuff in between. So most of the heeling I taught off leash with a ball. He's great without distraction. With distractions we still need a lot more work. And if I ever want him to do all this stuff on leash, I expect I'll have to teach it on leash all over again...

He always wears an e-collar for outdoor training, but I didn't start to correct him for heeling until he knew what to do. For teaching, a "no, try again" command worked very well.

Also, a funny observation. If I walk Cyko with a leash (any leash, flexi, leather, whatever), without any commands, he sprints back and forth exactly the length of the leash, as far as he can without actual pulling. Take the leash off, and he stays right with me and looks to me until I tell him to "go ahead".:lol: 

No one ever said I was a good trainer... #-o


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Off leash in the hallway against the wall with lots of hotdogs, that's the beginning with me.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Off lead! In fact, for Thunder's BH we had to actually practice with the leash on because I only used the leash to get on and off the field with him. Trooper is a bit different. I work him with the leash dragging on the ground cause he's got ADHD way more then I do and he just might want to go looking for shinny things in the middle of his training. If I can ever get him to focus he's gonna be really nice.


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## gisela festerling (Sep 30, 2007)

To me it depends on the dog and situation.
I would like to add a different point of view. I believe that every person that ever trains a dog should take a specific behavior (something more challanging than sit:-\" ) and try to teach it without any physical restraint. I come from the horsetraining side and although have always considered myself on the softer side it is still very much "on top of things". So when I got introduced to strictly motivational training (and no I don't believe in the strictly part but my exposure was through that kind of trainer) it was hard.
My first thing I tried was to get a dog to crate across the room without ever leaving the chair. The dog ended up (took about 1 hour with a dog that had never been crated) being as good as my other dogs about it....however, in the process of trial and error (I had no clue really) I learned a bunch. So for me, a lot of the focus is for me to learn and then apply depending on the situation and the dog.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Interesting and very good idea Gisela. I used to think like this when I was younger and I get less creative as I wrinkle. Playing with something is sometimes the best way to learn.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Off leash. Too quickly the leash becomes an addiction, as a lot of people need to wean themselves off the leash, PLUS it is too easy to use the leash as a crutch to keep the dog focused.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Generally off leash, but depends on where we are. I like to work my pups in a distracting environment as early as possible so that later on in life they are used to it. My current pup has been going to training with me since she was about 7 weeks old, comes out to the bleachers and we sit and do focus, positions, etc while they are doing bitework at the other end of the field. Sometimes it takes a while for them to settle, but they pretty quickly realize they aren't getting "any of that" so they may as well focus on the food and stuff I have going on. In these cases they are on leash, or I'd be randomly chasing my pup down the field LOL But if we are in a fenced area, area with no distractions, etc then it's off leash. Later I'll introduce a leash, but my foundation is off leash, and actually I go to off leash as quickly as possible once the dogs pretty well proofed. That's how I trial, so I'd rather train that way when I can. I can always put the leash on if I need to use it to guide the dog for something, say the defense of handler, but otherwise it's off.


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Good thread Mike. I'm a newbie handler and I have taught the heeling on-lead. I just in the last week began to heel off-lead. I wasn't sure how she'd change but my dog maintained her postion.

Our TD says he's always trained on-leash 99.9% of the time. And when he had to heel off-leash for a BH, he had no problems off-leash. I duno, after reading the responses here, I may try starting off-leash with my next dog.


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## Sara Weise (Feb 12, 2008)

When I am starting young dogs at 4-6 months of age I am working to build drive, focus, and attention for the tug or ball. I want that "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" attitude. This is all done motivationally. However, I usually work the puppies on a 15 foot long line. If your line handling skills are good, you can reward the dog with the toy, let them play with it and take in the glory of their win (by either chasing it or carrying it in a circle) for a moment. Then I can reel them back in, snatch the toy, and train a little bit more. There is a leash attached, so I don't have to worry that the puppy might get distracted by something else for a moment and drift away while he is playing with the toy.

Once the puppy gets a good understanding that his behavior is what makes me release the toy, then I make it more difficult. The heeling goes from just 2 or 3 steps to 20 or 30, and I add wide circles, turns, halts, fronts, etc. As the heeling progresses I switch to an actual 3' leash so that I can fix positioning. By this time, the puppy has built up enough drive for the toy and is old enough in his brain to not be so easily distracted by stuff on the sidelines.

When teaching a focus heel, I think the important concept is that the leash should not be used to restrain the dog (from forging ahead, lagging, etc.). If it used this way, you will never have nice off leash heeling. Rather it should be used to fine tune positioning.


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## Catalina Valencia (Feb 20, 2008)

I use the same method than Sara. I teach off-leash, but almost always there is a long leash hanging loose. In a very young pup (2-3 months) I like to imprint than the release means "play WITH me" and not to take the reward away or to be free to wander, the leash is then more useful for that than for teaching the heel itself.

I agree than the leash can become addictive, not for the dogs but for us as handlers, it's hard to have one and resist the temptation to use it, not only for correction and focus, but to "move the dog around" instead of the dog making his own decisions and mistakes.


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm new here and am just now reading this thread. I started Risa the heel position off leash in the house. Then I moved to a tennis court and worked her off leash. She did great, but then she began to learn that she was off leash. A leaf would blow past her, and she'd chase it. She'd see a person walking down the road, so she'd run to the fence of the tennis court to see the person. In the house, I'd be doing some off leash heeling, and then she'd decide to go and check out something that's laying on the floor. So now I tend to put a leash on her, but I try to keep it very loose. I'm just wondering what people thoughts are about working off leash and then dealing with a dog who breaks position and gets distracted with other, more interesting things...

I'd also like to add that when the leash is on, it is sooo hard to not use it as a crutch! I hate using the leash, but I don't know how to take her heeling to a higher level (which includes consistency) while keeping her focused and attentive to me... especially during distractions...


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## Edmond Kan (Jul 17, 2008)

This is from 'normal pet dog' training - not working dog breeds... (I'm new to raising a 9 week Malinois in England now) - 

Being in China for 2 years, I see more off leash dogs in the street than dogs on leash. I see more dogs crossing the street (busy street) than dogs on leash...

Living and working there, my dogs go off leash 99% of the time, crossing roads, dodging bicycles cars etc.

I know, a lot of people are talking about motivational heeling in the above posts, and I can understand in US/UK/most of the developed countries in the world - having a dog off leash is considered 'irresponsible' for a lot of people.. so i am *just* sharing my experiences with you all.

I start training pups off lead from the minute they step into and out of the house. They get to learn that they _must_ follow you. Must, not being from force, but from the idea that - if you don't follow me, you are going to get lost. So you better follow me. And it becomes normal for the dog. And anyway, if they follow me, I take them to cool places.

THIS IS NOT HEELING (heeling=walking directly by your side)

From my personal opinion, and this may be a strange one for some (I don't really teach this to my clients) a dog *choosing* to find YOU and follow you engrains something in them at puppy stage.
So whether they are off lead or on lead they 'should' _look_ to follow you anyway.

In terms of 'starting formal heeling' - it would be off leash - or at least the puppy 'thinks' it is off leash even though she's on.  (using this way at the mo with my Malinois)


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