# Dog Birth Control



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Interesting article regarding a new non-surgical birth control option for dogs. The female is given the drug either orally or it's injected and they are sterlized.

http://www.free-online-veterinarian-advice.com/dog-birth-control-chemspay.html

Although this seems like it might be a good way to sterilize a female without having to do surgery, my immediate reaction is "what happens when the AR people get a hold of this". Your dog gets loose and AC picks it up, and yes it happens even to responsible owners, some AR person there just gives the dog a pill or injection before you pick it up, and you are none the wiser. The neighbor doesn't like that you breed, they can just toss a pill over the fence wrapped in a little meat, or "borrow" your dog for an hour and take it to the vet then return it, and once again you are none the wiser. And I can just see them at a competition, walking around and asking people if they can give their dogs a treat.

It seems like a good idea in theory, but the potential for abuse is huge.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

yeah, that is kinda creepy - alot of potential for abuse.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Interesting article regarding a new non-surgical birth control option for dogs. The female is given the drug either orally or it's injected and they are sterlized.
> 
> http://www.free-online-veterinarian-advice.com/dog-birth-control-chemspay.html
> 
> ...


I can't imagine something that powerful being available to the general public. It would probably have to be given by a vet.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

What I didn't like about the article is that it states it will solve the over population problem in this country. Not in this country. Maybe in developing countries where there are feral dogs all over that are not owned where they can pass this stuff out to the feral females. That would probably work pretty well. In this country, it's peoples' attitudes towards their dogs, not just their presence or absence of gonads.


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

I would assume it's going to be too cost-prohibitive to worry about that stuff.

Laura


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

scary stuff ... 
will not be thoroughly tested because malpractice and litigation sure won't an issue :-(
will be made on the cheap with third world markets as the target, further reducing the quality :-(
will be abused like any other pill or drug :-(
too many vets won't think it through and support development "in principle" :-(
...only force that seems able to prevent it would probably be thru the vet field

also surprised to hear there are already similar drugs being used on wildlife control :-(


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

It would seem to me that they need a marking system, the way a lot of places place a small tattoo on the dog's stomach if they have been spayed so that they don't get opened up twice if they come through a shelter. If only a vet can give it and it has to be followed by some type of identification mark (tattoo, maybe injecting a special microchip, etc) then I could see it having value. But I don't see Veterinarians giving up their bread-n-butter Spay and neuters. In Orange County, I know several vets who charge $1000-1500 to spay/neuter a large dog. The prices have to come down if they expect people to steralize their pets, especially in this economy.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Ben Thompson said:


> I can't imagine something that powerful being available to the general public. It would probably have to be given by a vet.


I'm sure it will only be available to vets, but kind of like other controlled substances are "controlled", there are many ways around it. And when you have groups like PETA, who have vets on their payroll, it wouldn't be hard for them to make it available to certain "volunteers". Not to mention the neighbor who steals a dog and takes it to the local vet, then returns the dog without the owner being any wiser. Or the animal shelter with an overly zealous medical staff, etc.

Assuming there are no health issues associated with this, which is a big assumption, I actually like the idea from the standpoint of an owner who wants to spay their dog, can now sterilize it without the risk of surgery. Or the down time. Just not sure the pros outweigh the cons.

I could see something like this being really useful for a feral cat population, although I would think they would have to mark the cats somehow to prevent double dosing. I know in some areas they notch their ear after altering them, but that (surgery/notching) means catching them. This could be administered without even having to catch them, but what happens to the cat that ends up beinging dosed multiple times, what are the side effects. Same for a wildlife population.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Dang, maybe I need to move to Orange County.  It's like 1/10th of that around here! I'm guessing though that those animals are probably on extensive monitoring equipment, gas anesthesia, IV fluids, pain management, an overnight stay with possibly 24 hour monitoring, pre-anesthesia blood work, assistance with a certified veterinary technician, and so on. I only get paid $20-25 to spay a cat and $30-50 to spay a dog at the shelter I'm doing spays/neuters for (they operate on donation dollars). Then again, no fluids, no monitoring, no gas anesthesia (just injectable), no blood work, uncertified tech assisting, no pain meds, and so on. So you usually get what you pay for...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I could see something like this being really useful for a feral cat population, although I would think they would have to mark the cats somehow to prevent double dosing. I know in some areas they notch their ear after altering them, but that (surgery/notching) means catching them. This could be administered without even having to catch them, but what happens to the cat that ends up beinging dosed multiple times, what are the side effects. Same for a wildlife population.


Yeah, that's basically how they give rabies vaccine to wild animals is set out baits in areas where there are rabies breakouts. Not legal for dogs and cats, but I suppose they do the best they can.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I am going to predict this:

The FDA approves the drug. But the AVMA does not support it's use in general practise. They support it's use only in cities with a stray dog problem like Detroit or KC. and/or with shelters whom are strapped for cash. 

Removal of the surgical sterlization would severly reduce revenue in the vet world. Neuters and Spays are the bread and butter for the pet vet industry.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

St. Louis is in the process of trying to pass a required spay/neuter law in the city. 
If someone with good common sense could get hold of some of this new medicine we could feed it in sandwiches to all these idiots.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

James Downey said:


> Removal of the surgical sterlization would severly reduce revenue in the vet world. Neuters and Spays are the bread and butter for the pet vet industry.


James, we've gone over this. Vets make a lot more profit doing things like scheduled c-sections of abominations like the English bulldog than they do spay/neuter. Or especially an emergency c-section or emergency pyometra spay. 

I'll give you an example...a spay takes about the same amount of time or a little less to do than say a splenectomy (and that's probably only because spays are done more commonly so we are more practiced at that surgery), but it uses the same amount of suture materials, same instruments and clamps, same anesthesia protocols, etc, etc. I am from central Missouri in a city of 100,000 surrounded by lots and lots of farmland. A spay in private practice around here is usually going to run $100-150. A scheduled (not emergency) splenectomy will be 3-5 times that at least. Spay/neuter is not a big area of profit, trust me on this one...


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> James, we've gone over this. Vets make a lot more profit doing things like scheduled c-sections of abominations like the English bulldog than they do spay/neuter. Or especially an emergency c-section or emergency pyometra spay.
> 
> I'll give you an example...a spay takes about the same amount of time or a little less to do than say a splenectomy (and that's probably only because spays are done more commonly so we are more practiced at that surgery), but it uses the same amount of suture materials, same instruments and clamps, same anesthesia protocols, etc, etc. I am from central Missouri in a city of 100,000 surrounded by lots and lots of farmland. A spay in private practice around here is usually going to run $100-150. A scheduled (not emergency) splenectomy will be 3-5 times that at least. Spay/neuter is not a big area of profit, trust me on this one...


 
Maren Bell,

I guess we will have to see won't we. 

I wonder if just by chance the magic spay pill gets a counter part a magic nueter pill, gets approved and gets sold OTC. That would be magical. I am sure the vet industry would go with an additude of that's a good thing and go on about life as if nothing ever changed. 

Back here on Earth....The AVMA would go Bananas. Because it would be an economical blow to the pet vet industry. Vets can try and pitch spaying and nuetering to every dog that walks through the door. And they do with almost to good to be true bennies. It's hard selling bulldog c-sections to a male golden retriever. So where's the money in the Golden... In removing his gonads. 


I have conflicting information about how important spaying and neutering are to the vet would from a reproductive vet. He helps people breed, store semen, his speciality...making puppies. He told me what pays his bills. Spay and Nueters. the Irony.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

James, we've gone over this. Vets don't pitch spay and neuter to everyone that walks through the door on all planets....just back on earth apparently. :razz:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

James Downey said:


> Maren Bell,
> 
> I guess we will have to see won't we.
> 
> ...


Having a background in endocrine disruption, I am always wary of chemical forms of birth control. That's one reason I'd be worried about it in owned animals. Feral animals are a different story.

For most American pet owners (note: not necessarily performance/working dog owners), they don't want to have an intact animal. I don't care if you disagree, but to most people, having an intact animial is an inconvenience for John Q. Casual Pet Owner. Your friend the repro vet may have a different experience, but my experience with four repro vets (one in Utah, one in Illinois, two in Missouri who are both board certified in theriogenology) would disagree. Collecting semen and doing c-sections is much more profitable than doing spay/neuter. Collecting, evaluating, and freezing semen usually costs around $300-600, depending on how many breeding units you want saved, plus the storage costs of $50-100 per year. Compare this to an average $100 neuter, which requires lots of equipment (anesthesia, suture, an autoclave, surgical instruments, surgery lights, scrub, disinfectant, drapes, a table, a tech to monitor, etc etc) vs collecting and evaluating semen, which doesn't require a huge ton of equipment or technical assistance. I had a job offer at a repro clinic after spending a week there working, I understand what is involved. Breeding is a luxury, not a necessity after all, and you will pay for the expertise. There's also not that many vets who are really into repro work, so they can usually charge pretty fairly. You can argue with me all you like, but I have no reason to make this up. If you're making a ton of money on spay/neuters, you're either in a very upscale area and can charge for it or you're cutting corners.


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

The potential for abuse with this kind of thing is so big it's actually scary.What if some PETA pita were to get they'rehands on this drug, and drive by someone's kennel? What's to stop some idiot vet tech(not sayin they're all idiots) from trying to make a few bucks by selling this as some kind of wonder drug to help one of his pals keep his GF from getting preggers. There needs to be some very stringent security protocols when dealing with chemical sterilization. Thats the only way to minimize the potential for abuse.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Dang, maybe I need to move to Orange County.  It's like 1/10th of that around here! I'm guessing though that those animals are probably on extensive monitoring equipment, gas anesthesia, IV fluids, pain management, an overnight stay with possibly 24 hour monitoring, pre-anesthesia blood work, assistance with a certified veterinary technician, and so on. I only get paid $20-25 to spay a cat and $30-50 to spay a dog at the shelter I'm doing spays/neuters for (they operate on donation dollars). Then again, no fluids, no monitoring, no gas anesthesia (just injectable), no blood work, uncertified tech assisting, no pain meds, and so on. So you usually get what you pay for...


In this case Kadi you don't get anything special for the extra money. Somehow the prices went up when the vets and the AR people successfully lobbied for a maditory spay and neuter law. Funny how things like that happen?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Yeah, except most vets don't support the mandatory spay and neuter law, including the AVMA. 



> *The AVMA does not support regulations or legislation mandating spay/neuter of privately owned, non-shelter dogs and cats. *Although spaying and neutering helps control dog and cat populations, mandatory approaches may contribute to pet owners avoiding licensing, rabies vaccination and veterinary care for their pets, and may have other unintended consequences.


http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/animal_welfare/population_control.asp

Most vets believe it should be a matter between the client and the vet, not a difficult to enforce and probably arbitrary law. I for one do not want to be part of the tail lifting police. [-(


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I for one do not want to be part of the tail lifting police. [-(


Maren,

Even if they give you a nice spiffy uniform and shiny gold badge? 
I think the spray has great potential in a shelter or feral dog situation, as soon as the costs go down. 
Severe penalties for misuse by PETA types.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Ricardo Ashton said:


> The potential for abuse with this kind of thing is so big it's actually scary.What if some PETA pita were to get they'rehands on this drug, and drive by someone's kennel? What's to stop some idiot vet tech(not sayin they're all idiots) from trying to make a few bucks by selling this as some kind of wonder drug to help one of his pals keep his GF from getting preggers. There needs to be some very stringent security protocols when dealing with chemical sterilization. Thats the only way to minimize the potential for abuse.


I agree. Not just that what is listed above here. What if someone decided to use it on humans? Some people believe in eye for an eye.


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