# Ineresting application



## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Spent the morning with the owner of any unlisted security company, has a large contract protecting gov assets in a high crime area. One application is protecting nurses, doctors and patients in a hospital. I never thought that would ever be a job, it is and its high risk!!!!

Another contract is guarding a fenced complex for 12 hours every night.

The first he only uses german shepherds, the second he uses free dogs he took off death row. Mainly hunting dogs?? 

The compound work he lets about 10 dogs loose after he has cleared the employees, collects them next morning and takes them home.

I asked about dog aggression with so many loose dogs and no handler, most of the dogs are there because of dog aggression issues? he said its a common question, he has never seen a fight or any evidence of one. none of the dogs have had any protection training and he doesnt give them any. The dogs get tested almost continually, the subjects are of one minority group as the public have to apply to enter the community. They fear dogs but do not fear the law, its a high promotion extra pay job for cops, stay 2 years get any station you want.

He said he leave a show lab in the compound for a week and it will attack that minority for the rest of its life.

Heres the best part and he has worked a lot of tough dogs....at some point all shepherd breeds will pop off and quit the fight, when he has to rescue an assaulted guard from a blood bath he leaves the herders home and only takes pits and bull arabs, he says only dogs that will fight a man untill they expire!!!!!!!!

Both breeds i thought were notoriosly not civil????


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

he probably uses death row dogs for the compound work, because he probably loses a fair number of dogs, if people are "testing" them almost continually. over here and in puerto rico they often set the dogs on fire.

as for "the best part" of your post.

all I can say is he has not worked ALL the tough herders. 

I will say that tough bullbreed types CAN be more physically resilient than SOME herders, and also say that plenty of bullbreed and molloser types WILL quit as well.

Does he often have to send dogs into a bloodbath? doesnt he have armed guards?

I do not think large security firms probably spend the money to get the best dogs available.

Sounds to me like he has his opinions, which may not be based in reality.

Just like some over here stateside that think bullbreed and molloser types cannot make great protection or functional guard type dogs.

there are plenty of very civil bullbreed types, just not characterstics that many breed for, and are certainly not the norm for the breed.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Joby his main criteria is staying in a for profit business, he hasnt tested every herder or ALL herders living or dead for sure, he has worked enough dogs to satisfy his business criteria.

The large number of compound dogs is for their mutual survival, off leash dogs is a whole other branch of law. Most people could deal with 2,3 dogs, a large pack is im guesing another ball game, the compound dogs are supported by a guard doing spot checks in a vehicle. Its like the foolish practice of laying a mine field and not patrolling it, the mines will most likely get lifted and replanted outside yr own camp.

A dog i swear is only 50% of the équation at best, at least thats how i plan to utilise my dogs training.

And yes the blood baths are real and ancient, they are these days enhanced by drugs and alcohol and people once scatteted in different groups forced to coexist in a small area with little to do.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> and people once scatteted in different groups forced to coexist in a small area with little to do.


Scatteted? What is this word that you use? Is this your reference to being under the influence or something else?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ok...

all I am saying it would not take very long to light 10 dogs on fire, if there is a fence or a wall that they are behind, unless they are trained to not go near the fence.

how often are the spot checks?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

No the literal meaning, small groups separated by large distances.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Dont know every operational detail Joby, i spent the morning mainly talking dog not analysing some strangers internal affairs, would you settle with the guy survives long term in a competitive industry so his decisions must work more times than they dont....thats what i know.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Sounds pretty hero like ???

have to agree with joby if he is over here im sure his contact with dutchies is next to zero so not all herders can be put into this class.


And yeah i agree with the pitbull part


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Dont know every operational detail Joby, i spent the morning mainly talking dog not analysing some strangers internal affairs, would you settle with the guy survives long term in a competitive industry so his decisions must work more times than they dont....thats what i know.


sure man.

I guess you were just telling the story of your conversation...

I am sure that the guy knows his business well,


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Thats about right, guy could be fabricating everything, so could i, hell you might not even be who you think you are.

I got an invite to train when pup is 18mo, will see if its bs, i doubt it. I know the area well and its problems. Half the guys i ever fought in comp with come from that community. 

Hero???? WTF is that?

If yr in QLD Brad i will give you directions to loc. You decide after you seen the mess.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Thats about right, guy could be fabricating everything, so could i, hell you might not even be who you think you are.
> 
> I got an invite to train when pup is 18mo, will see if its bs, i doubt it. I know the area well and its problems. Half the guys i ever fought in comp with come from that community.
> 
> ...


Pete not saying he fabricated anything, just saying that I dont agree with his statements, if you quoted them correctly, as they pertain to the herders and pitbulls. 

like I said, it appears you just wanted to talk about your visit, not hear what others might think about what this security guy told you, so I apologize... cool man, glad you got the chance to talk dogs with him. I am sure it was interesting.

I was just talking to a police k9 handler last week that told me pitbulls are no good for bitework cause they are crazy and will turn on thier handlers, that mals suck cause they are too nervy, and he prefers GSD because they have better noses.. 

I also told him I did not agree with any of those statements.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

No problemo man, just relating some general points that stuck from a conversation with a stranger, i am sure i got his words not exactly how he said them, its a discussion board not a testimony under oath.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> No problemo man, just relating some general points that stuck from a conversation with a stranger, i am sure i got his words not exactly how he said them, its a discussion board not a testimony under oath.


Hell yes it is! If you can crucify me for my rat tales then Joby can burn you at the stake for repeating a conversation that didn't happen. 

Ok guys I gotta admit, Friday tends to be a long day for me. I'm usually up for 21-23 hours. But by then I pass that point of wanting to sleep and end up just killing time doing unproductive things. Sorry about that but you two are kinda fun to kid around with.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Nicole is sweet on me n Joby, send me some good chewin tobacco Joby and we wont have to fight for her, fair deal? I will transfer full ownership to you.

Throw in a used bite suit for good will.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Well done Pete. That's mighty white of you to agree to transfer full ownership of me over to Joby.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Good chewin tobacco is rare and precious here.......


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> No problemo man, just relating some general points that stuck from a conversation with a stranger, i am sure i got his words not exactly how he said them, its a discussion board not a testimony under oath.


LOL...

Pete, congrats on you visit, I also enjoy talking dogs with various people in various fields. You are seeming slightly sensitive this evening, was just bored and found this thread interesting.

in the security industry here, sentry dogs used are often 'taken off of death row' as well, because they are usually very cheap to acquire, and if they are lost, injured or killed, the companies do not lose large amounts of money. makes good business sense.

using multiple dogs in a largish pack makes sense as well, make sure there are at least a couple nastier ones in the pack so they can lead the charge, and the rest will follow, don't need training for that, just a couple cheap aggressive shelter dogs to lead some more cheap shelter dogs. saves money on dogs and training. 

I have a close friend that worked for a large security company that supplied dogs for the security guards they posted under contract at the train stations in the Chicagoland area. 

About the same the dogs were 50% of the equation, mostly for deterrents, very few had training, most were dogs that would not be effective in a real fight, according to my friend.

I acquired a few dogs for him when his boss asked him to find some dogs, they wanted dogs as cheap as they could find them, found him 4 dogs, they paid me a total of $1200 for 4 dogs that I found that people had to get rid of. A dobie, a rottie and 2 pet type GSD's. They did not care if the dogs were any good, the requirement was basically a largish herding breed, preferrably not too friendly looking, but they did take the dobie cause his ears were cropped and he was a bigger dobe so he fit the bill as intimidating enough.

I also found a couple dogs for the same company that sent dog/handler teams to the middle east for EDD contracts, they paid $3500 each for those 2 dogs. 

All makes perfect sense when running a business. keep costs down, due what you have to, to fulfill the contracts, and keep the customers happy.

do they train the GSDs Pits and Bull Arabs?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

They train the gsd for on leash patrol. i took my dog for a critique, i went to get a tug from car, no need he wanted to see dog, so i went to get a harness, told the guy to come round the corner and scare the shit outta my dog, he laughed and said no i want to see the dog???

I let the dog off leash he put his paws on the guy eyeballed him then went out and patrolled the property. The guy said great you can bring him training in 6 months and forget all that tug shit in the meantime?

it was weird.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> Well done Pete. That's mighty white of you to agree to transfer full ownership of me over to Joby.


Hey Nicole

Those grey wolves don't seem so bad now do they?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hey Nicole
> 
> Those grey wolves don't seem so bad now do they?


Ha ha Thomas, I'm thinking you might be on to something.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Peter im sure its a bad area heard plenty of stories about areas up there.

Hero maybe a bad choice of words.My bad.

I agree pits are not civil for the most part but have seen a few that were but its just the sort of breed that when nurtured it will do anything the owner wants and till theres nothing left thats my experience anyway.And there level of hardness is without question.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

WTH is *INERESTING*...:?:


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Oh well, i meant interest to me, which is about any application of working dogs.


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Ahhhhh Ok...I thought it was some new drunken Aussie slang not yet up on the web! 8)


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Doug, you are becoming more ne than po............jk


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Doug, you are becoming more ne than po............jk


LOL! Are you wearing the collar? 

...No, not that leather one with spikes!


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> he probably uses death row dogs for the compound work, because he probably loses a fair number of dogs, if people are "testing" them almost continually. over here and in puerto rico they often set the dogs on fire.
> 
> as for "the best part" of your post.
> 
> ...


two thumbs UP!!


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> The guy said great you can bring him training in 6 months and forget all that tug shit in the meantime?
> 
> it was weird.


Yeah! No sense in playing tug with your dog if you want him to be a killing machine.. you could probably just stop interacting with him altogether so that when it comes time to train him you can just sit in the car while he goes to work :wink:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just beat em till they bite!  ;-)


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Some things can be taken out of context.......just sayin


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

just giving you shit, Pete


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

brad robert said:


> Peter im sure its a bad area heard plenty of stories about areas up there.
> 
> Hero maybe a bad choice of words.
> 
> ...


 Actually guys that allow doctors to do their job and stop nurses being raped after a long shift while walking to their cars by methadone addicts with hep C or worse qualify as heroes in my book.

If what the security provider does works im more inclined to believe it over internet critiques, but hey we post for feedback so all good.


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Actually guys that allow doctors to do their job and stop nurses being raped after a long shift while walking to their cars by methadone addicts with hep C or worse qualify as heroes in my book.
> 
> If what the security provider does works im more inclined to believe it over internet critiques, but hey we post for feedback so all good.


 
What hellhole is this in again?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Actually i would give you the google earth coordinates but i would only end up being branded a racist nazi and it aint worth the angst.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Bart Karmich said:


> What hellhole is this in again?


No kidding. I'm thinking I wouldn't want any part of that. I've got a stupid side to me that tends to react forwardly in dangerous/hostile situations.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

long way from kansas toto but definately in the land of oz, does that make me the wonderful wizard??


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Actually guys that allow doctors to do their job and stop nurses being raped after a long shift while walking to their cars by methadone addicts with hep C or worse qualify as heroes in my book.
> 
> If what the security provider does works im more inclined to believe it over internet critiques, but hey we post for feedback so all good.[/QUO
> 
> ...


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

My first canine security job was with a small company. Most of her dogs - GSDs, Rotts and Dobes were shelter dogs. The shelter would call her when they had a dog on death row for being too much dog to be a suitable family pet. Small company and most guards had the option of keeping their dog when they left, but she was never short for dogs.

Some of her dogs I liked taking to work, some were nothing more than good company, but all of the dogs were an effective deterent to being harassed. Good dog or shitter, I never wanted to be in a situation where I was relying on my dog to save my ass with any of them. Just didn't get paid enough for that. That's what the cops are for. 

Last company I worked for sent me to pick up a compound dog from a site one night. Never met the dog, but was assured that I would have no problem taking him out of the yard. Sure enough, show up, open the gate and snap the leash on the dog with no problem. He rode home in my car with his head on my lap. Not much of a guard dog, not sure how the company got away with that.


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

Very interesting! I am not a LEO but a very interested civilian. I have questions: this place is in the US? That makes me feel sick. When you say "tested", you mean someone tries to break in? What is a " Bull Arab"? Must be slang, I have never heard of the breed. How would they light dogs on fire? Surely it would be simpler and easier to use a handgun, perhaps with a silencer.

Thanks for putting up with my ignorance!


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Bull Arab is a pure unregistered line of hunting dog built mainly on pointer, they are imo the most succesful compromise between speed, grip, stamina, hardness and scent ability. The breed has become fashionable amongst suburban slobs that dont work them, so the puppy mills have started big time, result, mutts and quality going through the floor.

One attacked two people in the same day in past week, will find news link.

Loc australia, tested means compound is in public space and idiots continually harrasing dogs from other side of fence cos they have nothing better to do, not a full invasion i guess so not real test.
If they sensed weakness in dogs tho then prolly would breach boundary, which does make it a test???


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Peter, can't remember what you said about the breed mix that makes a Bull Arab, but assume the Arab part was for speed, from an "arabian" breed ?

also, when did it become "pure" ??


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Its a quirky rumour, greyhound was used, somehows as the story goes a saluki was seen at one of the trio that started the breed, so rumour spread saluki was used hence arab, the breeder laugh about the rumour but the name stuck.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Denise King said:


> How would they light dogs on fire? Surely it would be simpler and easier to use a handgun, perhaps with a silencer.
> 
> Thanks for putting up with my ignorance!


to have a gun with a suppressor or even just a handgun, is not easier to get for some people, than some gasoline and a squirt sports drink bottle or other container and a stick...and getting caught with a gun can be a bigger charge, and especially a gun with a suppressor can be, in some places a very big deal.

dog approaches fence or wall, is squirted or splashed with gasoline....stick is dipped in gas on the tip and lit, and stick is used to ignite dog at the fence. at least that is how I imagine it goes in those cases..

heave heard of more than a few of these incidents, in Chicago, and in Puerto Rico. guy I worked with for a short time lost a couple dogs that way, started trying to train them to NOT approach the fence, which was impossible for certain dogs I am sure, and probably not reliable for other dogs, I know he started using cable systems on a few sites, which of course limited the use of the dog....the dogs barking usually was enough arouse people in the area, if they are close enough, and if they care at all...


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

Thanks guys for taking the time to answer all my dumb a*** questions! I have been training dogs for about twenty years and it astounds me how much is out there that I haven't heard about ! I stay fascinated about all things dog. No one answered the question as to where this is happening. Just general..like north eastern US, ETC


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Koehler outlines training the dog off the fence, the more i read of that guy the more i think he is right, like table training i was taught to despise it before i even knew what it was.


,Rick there are a million different versions of the arab name story, whatever the truth is the name stuck.

A group, not the original breeders, is working on AKC registration. The purists dont support it. A standard has already been written, they demand DNA to be part of the group. The standard reads like a bazzillion other working dog standards.

The orignal breeders had a large enough gene pool and enough uniformity of geno/phénotype to be a distinct species.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Denise King said:


> Thanks guys for taking the time to answer all my dumb a*** questions! I have been training dogs for about twenty years and it astounds me how much is out there that I haven't heard about ! I stay fascinated about all things dog. No one answered the question as to where this is happening. Just general..like north eastern US, ETC


Glad you found the thread of some interest, not all did lol. I find all applications of working dogs interesting.

I did tell you loc. Australia, state of qld :—)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Glad you found the thread of some interest, not all did lol. I find all applications of working dogs interesting.
> 
> I did tell you loc. Australia, state of qld :—)


I found it interesting, for the record  keep us posted....


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Tx Peter
and when did they become "pure" bull arabs ? ... can i assume from the beginning or thereabouts after about xxx(?) generations, but "purity" is going down the pooper now that they are trendy ?

Joby re: "to have a gun with a suppressor or even just a handgun, is not easier to get for some people,"

WELL written !! ... more and more it appears the only people that can get em "easy" are the ones who shouldn't have em ](*,)](*,)


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

The breed became clearly distinct and uniform in type, hunting style and traits in the seventies, the breeders never ever planned to have a breed, standard or any of that rubbish. They wanted a dog to do a job, they selected for it, tested for it and presto a certain repeatable type emerged.

Everything else is an afterthought by other people......true history of every working breed there is.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> The breed became clearly distinct and uniform in type, hunting style and traits in the seventies, the breeders never ever planned to have a breed, standard or any of that rubbish. They wanted a dog to do a job, they selected for it, tested for it and presto a certain repeatable type emerged.
> 
> Everything else is an afterthought by other people......true history of every working breed there is.


+1 mostly I think...


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## Robley Smith (Apr 20, 2012)

Off subject, but it is interesting to me how a country with such strict anti gun laws still has these problems with violence and crime, and worse how vulnerable and helpless the citizenry are to bigger,younger stronger or multiple aggressors. The creeps have no concern that a well armed and trained nurse or Doctor from that hospital will end them. Of course the same thing occurs here in our larger more anti gun cities, but it sounds worse over there, very "Lord of the flies".


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

The City of Chicago has so far this year:

1267 shootings

272 murders

Worse rate than in Afghanistan.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chi town has had a serious deal with shootings this year. The weird thing is I believe they have had a drop in most other crimes.


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## Robley Smith (Apr 20, 2012)

And Illinois has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, it is the only state that does not allow for concealed carry permits. It has similar problems to what I am refering to in Australia with the difference that the ne'er do wells dont have to go too far to arm themselves, while the law abiding absolutely will not be armed while going about thier daily lives.

I didnt really mean to get into a gun control rant, I just thought it was wierd hearing about security guards armed with dogs, protecting hospital employees because it is so bad there.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Robley these are not standard towns, they are artificial communities where people were originally forced to live against their will. The social probs are well documented and alcohol is a major problem. Sad really.





Robley Smith said:


> Off subject, but it is interesting to me how a country with such strict anti gun laws still has these problems with violence and crime, and worse how vulnerable and helpless the citizenry are to bigger,younger stronger or multiple aggressors. The creeps have no concern that a well armed and trained nurse or Doctor from that hospital will end them. Of course the same thing occurs here in our larger more anti gun cities, but it sounds worse over there, very "Lord of the flies".


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Robley these are not standard towns, they are artificial communities where people were originally forced to live against their will. The social probs are well documented and alcohol is a major problem. Sad really.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Robley these are not standard towns, they are artificial communities where people were originally forced to live against their will. The social probs are well documented and alcohol is a major problem. Sad really.


Gosh Peter, I feel like Varuca Salt when she exclaimed "Schnazberry? Who ever heard of a Schnazberry?"

But seriously, what is this about? Artificial communities, where people are forced to live against their will? I don't know what to make of this place you talk about. Of course, and it may be clear that I am purposely relatively uninformed of such things.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Prefer to keep the conversation about dog training, if i can use my skills to provide some relief and stability at times when it matters most then that would be some useful service.

The states had parralel situations for sure at least in the 80's.

You need to get out of the burbs Nicole.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> You need to get out of the burbs Nicole.


Gosh, maybe you are right. I'll start looking for somewhere else to go tomorrow. Ah, maybe I'll just stop paying my mortgage to see where I might be forced to live against my will. I love a good idea and some adventure. This might just be life changing. 

OK, I'm out. This is apparently way too heavy and corroded for me.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

No point replying to her if shes out i guess?

msg to Nicole, keep paying yr mortgage and enjoy life in the burbs....good ideas arent always that good.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> No point replying to her if shes out i guess?
> 
> msg to Nicole, keep paying yr mortgage and enjoy life in the burbs....good ideas arent always that good.


Aw Peter, yer sayin' that like you know where I live. But you don't. And, maybe it don't matter, it doesn't really to me but if it makes you feel better to know this, I got three other mortgages on separate properties that are already paid for. What happens in these "burbs" mebe don't matter so much for one reason, or another. Spenard ain't so great. That (the location) and other things make that, at least on some level, true.

One difference might be that I choose to not lay out the horror of it all, where ever that might be. At the end of the day, we all see what we want to. Kinda like you, and me living in the burbs. In a word, no. That ain't where I live nor what my situation is.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

I just wanna talk about dogs and answered some specific question about venues, so how did this happen again??


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> I just wanna talk about dogs and answered some specific question about venues, so how did this happen again??


Dang. I'm surprised you don't see that for yourself. We'll for starters don't change the rules in the middle of the game. Ya for real, it's only good when you don't start the thread??

It might appease you to act like you don't know what I mean, but it's for sure you do. Water seeks it's own level.

If you don't mind please spare me the rebuttal on questions about water seeking its own level or changing the rules. We're cool.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Ok, sure, no problemo, peace.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Some Aboriginal communities = some bad shit.And horrendous alchol probs and violence.Much like the native indians over there.No use adding drama to it say it for what it is?


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