# Big Ole' Farm Dog Breed???



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

NOT a real working farm (YET)...just some chickens that occasionally escape thier enclosure, neighbors on both sides of 25 acres have cows though, not visible...wooded lot mostly...

A friend of mine is looking to get a dog, likes BIG dogs, used to own presas mostly.

NOT a real "dog guy" Not looking to spend lots of time training...(guess that is where I come in...lol)

anyhow he is looking to get a biggish dog that wont mind spending fair amount of time outside, even in winter in Wisconsin.

a dog that should not need lots of training and interaction, but might get it some times, his current GF had 5 kids from 7 on up...

probably not looking to have dog just attack people like the UPS guy and the Mailman etc that may drive up the 600 foot wooded driveway...

but would like a dog that will bark at people (at night or whatever) and will hopefully take notice of coyotes that may go after the chickens, and hopefully one that will not decide to eat or kill the chickens itself...

dog may or may not end up spending lots of time loose on the property, may be garage kept or kennel kept for time periods depending on how it works out...

His neighbor has a St bernard and it works great for him...

Anyhow, he was looking up Bernese Mountain dogs...I immediately said GSD, but the one Id help him get would probably be above his level, and might need work on not killing chickens..although he is open to gsd still..

anyhow any big semi-lazyish farm dog suggestions..??? of course I realize everything is relative and dogs are individuals...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The Bernese have a hing rate of HD.

Great Pyr, Maremma, Komondor, Anitolian, losts more. 

The working GSD isn't anymore prone to Kill chickens then any of the other breeds.

I herded ducks and sheep, also chickens by.....accident :-o with my SCHIII GSD.

He had no issue with gripping the sheep by the withers but never in a preditor sort of way. it was all about control.

He never laid a tooth on a duck and we did LOT of duck work.

Chickens will bring out the predetor in a LOT of dogs simply because of their herky jerky movement, squawking, and less inclination to move as a flock. They just scatter.

It's all in the genetics and training. 

Find a good stock dog breeder and trainer.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Where's he stand on a Rott? Seems like a fair balance for what he's looking for and I agree with Bobble :twisted: on the chicken thing. Hell, they make me want to chase them and I don't have a good reason to.

Joby, how does the Berner fit into this if his background is in Presa's?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

what's the total "budget" for this dog, Joby ?
....both in dollars he will pay to get it and time you can spend training it 

lots of pretty cheap 'big ole' watchdogs can be found and i'm sure you could help him find one, but i always figure that the more biting that will be involved, the more it'll cost to buy one with decent bloodlines, and the more time it will take on the training side


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Rescue dog? Lots of really nice dogs end up homeless for no good reason. 

Berners are lovely dogs, but notoriously short lived, from what I've heard. 

What about a Newfie? Big and heavy coated for extreme weather, imposing enough looking to be a guard dog, but generally gentle and friendly. Then get a terrier as an alert dog.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I'd really look at an old Scotch Collie. Not the brainless rough coated collies ruined by show breeders but a Scotch Collie known more as a Landrace. I knew many of these dogs as a kid growing up in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia there isn't a better 'chill' farm dog out there. It that doesn't require a lot of work to maintain can stay outside 24/7 will do all you ask of in your OP without any prodding. 

Poke through this website I've linked to glean more info on the 'real' Scotch Collie. 

http://www.oldtimefarmshepherd.org/tag/landseer/


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I think its pretty much an open budget for a well bred dog. Since he spends money like crazy on everything else he wants and used to sell small pups for 1500, and older dos for a few grand himself for years.

I do "THINK" he will be looking for a puppy not a dog, but can re-check, so rescue is probably out.

Like I stated before there wont be any trainers hired, and minimal EFFECTIVE training time will be spent most likely. (I know this man well)

He is looking for an addition to his land and "family" not a ball and chain of a dog, and not one that needs a significant change of his lifestyle.

Dont take that the wrong way, the dog will not be ignored and will be taken care of well, but dog will need to be somewhat independent in its needs anyway...no one will mind it being close and wanting attention but I also know he is not going to keep up with any kind of serious training regimen that takes much time.

This will be my prediction though, the hard part will be that....

He might not "qualify" for some dogs just because he is a unique type of guy that will most likely rub certain breeders the wrong way, or get quickly perturbed if they rub him the wrong way..
You know, the ones that want your whole life story, a bunch of personal details, like your mother's maiden name, a bunch of references, your DNA, and generally make it very difficult for you to get a dog from them by jumping through a bunch of hoops, the ones that seem to relay the attitude that THEY are doing YOU a huge favor by allowing you to buy one of their dogs.. He has already complained to me about 1 breeder's insane (in his words) screening and contract process... Ended up telling her he wanted a puppy, not to move in with her and pretty much hung up on her I think.

He is a more of a here is your asking price for MY puppy without too many hassles, kind of guy for sure..

I saw him keep a $300 laser printer once that did not work correctly just because Best Buy wanted to enter his license number in the register..
He paid cash for it the day before and had his receipt, and did not see why they needed his license for the return..:roll::roll:

Admittedly he is a little unique in that way, not wanting to be giving out all his information to everyone..

super nice guy though, and would definitely take good care of a dog that would have a great environment to live in if its a good fit.

as far as short life and HD goes, he seems to like the neighbors St Bernard down the way lol. I don't think he is super emotional about his dogs, meaning he will not have a nervous breakdown if the dog has a shorter life span, but I am sure he is not looking for unhealthy dog.

keep em coming appreciate it, I am sure he is open to rarer type dogs as well, if he can personally deal with the "screening process" that is 

I will look into the Old Scotch Collies Geoff, look like nice dogs, personally but I think he wants a 100lb dog or so. 
Do not know for sure why but he said he wants a big dog, and Id like to help him get something he is going to like, we all have our preferences I guess.

I think he is looking more at some type of mastiff type or molosser.. The Presas he had were in the 130 lb range, his stud was 140.. And believe me, back then, the right big dog COULD MOVE...had enough leg and the right build for it..I had a 125 pounder I got from him that could jump a 6 foot fence over and over, and run like the wind it seemed, and that was WITH Moderate Dysplasia...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Where's he stand on a Rott? Seems like a fair balance for what he's looking for and I agree with Bobble :twisted: on the chicken thing. Hell, they make me want to chase them and I don't have a good reason to.
> 
> Joby, how does the Berner fit into this if his background is in Presa's?


He is not what I would call a "dog guy" he has had dogs, and can take care of them properly, but is probably not interested in dog training as a new hobby, or altering his lifestyle too much to take a lot of time training, this is just my opinion, because I know him pretty well. 

He is not looking for presa type dog in temperament I don't think, too much work..and liability without strict training, I think he just wants a decent big ole farm dog type, cant think of anything real specific.

his neighbor has an outside St Bernard. It stays outside year round, is super happy, it runs the trails with us on the quads and razors, (NOT LIke YOUR DOGS, LIKE A ST BERNARD ON A SMALLER PROPERTY OF 20 ACRES OR SO LOL)

it stays in the main yard mostly and "greets" anyone that comes all the way up the driveway, barks at night at people, hangs out in the garage with you etc...An older guy owns him with zero training experience, and just yells at him when he has too and the dog actually pretty great there..except that one time I was alone and had to pick up the backhoe and the guy was not home, and the dog bluff charged me and I had CUJO flashbacks..but hey I did look suspicious...lol

this is what he is looking for I think in a general sense..although it doesn't have to run and follow 4 wheelers if it doesnt want to, and should look to ward off predators, which I am not sure if the St Benard does or not..

I would say a lower maintenance easier keeper kind of dog, although I dont want to paint a bad picture of the guy, he will do what he needs to, but just looking to help him get what he wants.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

The Scotch Collies I remember were in the 75-85lb range basically a decent working GSD weight for comparison sakes. Look a lot bigger though because of the coat, the coat protects from coyotes, snakes etc but I remember were a magnet for burrs. 

If the guy just wants a Presa let him get a Presa. To me not a really effective overall farm dog that's my opinion. I read that he wanted an overall farm dog, not a one trick pony such as a LSG/straight herder etc.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> what's the total "budget" for this dog, Joby ?
> ....both in dollars he will pay to get it and time you can spend training it
> 
> lots of pretty cheap 'big ole' watchdogs can be found and i'm sure you could help him find one, but i always figure that the more biting that will be involved, the more it'll cost to buy one with decent bloodlines, and the more time it will take on the training side


biting is NOT a requirement I dont think, it would have to be kenneled then. 

ideally this dog will be able to be left alone outside for time periods. as well as accompany people that are outside doing things...There are permanent kennels up by the house though too. I do know the dog will NOT be allowed in the main house, but will be allowed in the garage/work shop areas, where lots of activity goes on anyhow throughout the week..


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

also he has 4 days at home, and works Thu-Sat from about 10am to 10pm/Midnight. As a driving route salesman. So he is not home for 3 days out of the week during the daytime and evening.

but his gf and 3 kids live at the house and she is an animal/dog person.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> The Scotch Collies I remember were in the 75-85lb range basically a decent working GSD weight for comparison sakes. Look a lot bigger though because of the coat, the coat protects from coyotes, snakes etc but I remember were a magnet for burrs.
> 
> If the guy just wants a Presa let him get a Presa. To me not a really effective overall farm dog that's my opinion. I read that he wanted an overall farm dog, not a one trick pony such as a LSG/straight herder etc.


He doesnt want a presa, he just wants a good dog that he will like. he doesnt want a dog that wants to bite and kill things, except maybe a coyote.
I am looking at the collies right now, I like them...but of course I like the GSD too...

personally Id like him to get a MAL:twisted:, Im sure I could find an 80-90 pounder that I like...but know that would be a terrible fit most likely.

just trying to help the guy, hes my best friend, and it is big deal to me that he wants another dog...his last dog was a presa, died a few years ago, but that dog was more of a guard dog, not a dog that interacted with people on a daily basis, now he runs a business off the property, has more people living there, and has people coming and going a lot more.

I am not sure if herding is a huge requirement but can see the advantages of that instinct for his situation for sure


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Guy up the road from me has a GSDxbernese it's exactly as per your requirements.

What about Wolfhound/Deerhound or cross of either with a bit of Bull in it?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

.....i was gonna suggest a newfie too, but pretty high maintenance if they are thrashing around by themselves a lot.....there's one here locally that is out all the time and has done his own dreadlocks ](*,)

if short lived is ok, a great dane who gets a tummy tuck out of the box might be acceptable for him.....most are all bark and no bite


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Working line Airedale maybe?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I like the Dale idea. 

I personally believe a good one can be as much of an all rounder as a good GSD.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> Where's he stand on a Rott? Seems like a fair balance for what he's looking for and I agree with Bobble :twisted: on the chicken thing. Hell, they make me want to chase them and I don't have a good reason to.
> 
> Joby, how does the Berner fit into this if his background is in Presa's?



My sisters always call me Bobby so I guess you mispelled my...na.................:-k :-o

*HEY! :razz::razz::razz: *:lol: :wink:


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

LOL, just making sure you're still paying attention.  BTW which of you moderators were asleep at the wheel and forgot to approve pending memberships?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm not sure if I even know how to do that.

I blame it on these new fangled typewriters.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Nice. Blame it on the cop.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Blame it on the boogie just to be safe


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

looking at anatolian litter within a day or two...local...set up appointment very easily, talked to guy on phone immediately....

my friend also commented on last puppy inquiry he made for some breed or another...

lady wanted names, details and phone numbers for every person living in the home, (phone numbers for anyone 16 or older in the house) and at least 3, preferably 5, personal references with phone numbers...

this is required before even discussing "opportunity to purchase puppy from us"

and that was only an email, phone number only comes after you fulfill the requirements ....

He emailed back asking where he should send his DNA sample and also that the NSA doesn't have that much info....

DO PEOPLE REALLY SELL DOGS THIS WAY?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Nice. Blame it on the cop.


 I'm used to it. 

Connie's usually the gate keeper.  She trumps the two old guys.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> looking at anatolian litter within a day or two...local...set up appointment very easily, talked to guy on phone immediately....
> 
> my friend also commented on last puppy inquiry he made for some breed or another...
> 
> ...



Maybe more should! Sounds like a good breeder, if your buddy can put up with initial baloney I bet he'll get a nice dog out of it.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> DO PEOPLE REALLY SELL DOGS THIS WAY?


Evidently so. I don't know what else to say about that. People often do as they think. Truth is, you are either good for your word or you are not. Having that information may feel like an appropriate action of due diligence on her part - hence doing as she thinks.

Speaking of big dogs, I really dig the Kangal. There's just something about those dogs …


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Joby Becker said:


> DO PEOPLE REALLY SELL DOGS THIS WAY?


They do indeed, some have 4 page contracts. In a way it's good, especially if you're a breeder who takes back dogs, but tbh I think it's all part of the pedigree dogs money machine. Makes the product seem more exclusive. It's their puppy I spose so they can do what they want. I just walk when breeders start getting a bit psychopathic like that. Just not interested in that but I can see why they do it. Very common among Dobe breeders, unsurprisingly.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> but tbh I think it's all part of the pedigree dogs money machine. Makes the product seem more exclusive.


For certain. That is kind of what I was getting at. Manufactured exclusivity is questionable but as you said, its their right if that's how they choose to go about placing their pups.

Best dog I ever got came from an honest man who bred for himself first and foremost. He never wanted a dime from me for the pup, just a good place to put one of his pups who could go on to have a better life than he could give it. 

I've had many breeds/dogs, but none quite like this one.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Heck, there are some dog rescue groups that demand the same thing. I know a friend who was looking for a new dog after her old one passed. Not only did the rescue group want all that but ALSO wanted a copy of her last year's tax return (I kid you not!) as well as her vet's phone number so they could check her out through her vet plus an adoption fee of $450 for the 7 year old mix breed mutt she was interested in. A dog that the group had had for over 8 months.

Not a problem for my friend, she basically told them to engage in an unlikely, improbable behavior and bought a nice puppy from a breeder.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

With a couple of the breeds I've owned over the yrs I had to introduce my kids to the breeders. :-o

Sorta pissed me off at first but then I just looked at it as a responsible breeder wanting to be sure her pups went to good homes.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

before you question a breeder's contract, or lack of contract, or motives, get to know the breeder. and if possible get to know the litter

a lot depends on what you can see or not see

if you are buying online and outa sight, things get harder of course, but sometimes that's the only option.
- a few years back i was looking for a specific type dog and stated up front i had a 5k budget. i still had a hard time getting simple raw videos and specific info on the background of the bloodlines. some breeders are just hard to deal with and some don't want to take the time to provide background. the bigger the operation the harder to deal with online

but i think it's VERY fair to say that the easier a breeder will sell off their pups the less they care where they are going or what will happen to them after they are sold.

of course you read many stories of "love at first sight", and how the "pup picked me", etc etc., but i always advise buyers to avoid impulse buying. especially for a dog that will hopefully spend the next decade with them.
- and especially if they haven't had a lot of dogs

in your case Joby, you know dogs and you know what your friend wants. 
- since he trusts you, just try and have him give you a pot to work with and let you get the dog for him. i realize it's his money tho 

be interested to see what he ends up getting


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

My brother's Newfie was pretty much what your buddy is looking for as far as maintenance goes. She was a good farm dog, didn't harass his cows, good with kids, and lived most of her life outdoors. He shaved her down in the summer. 

Or how about a Leonberger?


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

BTW, if this guy doesn't have fields in good shape as far as noxious weeds go (burrs, burdock, pitchfork stickers, briars, etc) a long coated dog like a newfie or leonberger hair coat will get matted up fairly quickly with that trash catching the coat.

Don't know if this is a consideration or not.....


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

there are lots of dense trees / scrub, some more wooded areas around perimeter, swampy areas, 2 "ponds" surrounded by acres of cattails due to low land high water table.. several tree lines and only about 3-4 acres of what I would call nice field like land,

it is largely natural landscape aside from tree line planting 50 yrs ago..and of course whatever has been built..small pockets of burrs and the like, and a shit ton of what I call sticker bushes, that will be attempted to be ruthlessly eradicated this summer by way of backhoe or whatever means necessary...

ill talk to him today to see if he is going to see the anatolians or not, I cant go today if does...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

sound like a great property !

after i stocked the ponds i'd put some fake cameras up in tree stands around the perimeter that would be noticed by any two legged coyotes ;-)
....and some nice strong solar spotlights lights around the house which would enclose a huge fenced in kennel kennel for my two dutch shepherds
.....i'd leave food outside the perimeter every day until i could pick off the coyotes one by one

.....well i can dream anyway //LOL//


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> sound like a great property !
> 
> after i stocked the ponds i'd put some fake cameras up in tree stands around the perimeter that would be noticed by any two legged coyotes ;-)
> ....and some nice strong solar spotlights lights around the house which would enclose a huge fenced in kennel kennel for my two dutch shepherds
> ...


did I say ponds ?? /lol....I guess I meant more like swamps...one is partially dug out, but the "wetland" restrictions in the locale are making it tough to turn them into actual ponds that could hold nice fish population...the water table is high enough to make them functional ponds if he is ever allowed to dredge out more...as it was, every 6-7 years or so they would mostly dry up...except for the part that was dug out years ago...


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> For certain. That is kind of what I was getting at. Manufactured exclusivity is questionable but as you said, its their right if that's how they choose to go about placing their pups.
> 
> Best dog I ever got came from an honest man who bred for himself first and foremost. He never wanted a dime from me for the pup, just a good place to put one of his pups who could go on to have a better life than he could give it.
> 
> I've had many breeds/dogs, but none quite like this one.


Sounds like me, did you get it from me?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> Sounds like me, did you get it from me?


No. Not yet anyway...


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