# Breeds which can do bitework...



## Manon Lagniel (Jul 1, 2010)

Hello, 

I hope this question was not already asked...
It's just for my information 

In France, some breeds can do bitework, and some other can't. 

Is there any similar rule in UK & in the USA ?

Thanxs


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Never heard it based on breed, just based on the individual animal.


----------



## eric squires (Oct 16, 2008)

There are no such rules per se.Although there are rules/law against owning some breeds at local levels.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

ARF follows the FR rules, so there are breeds that cannot do the bitework there, just like in France. nara claims to follow the rules, but allows pits and bulldogs and stuff like that, thus NOT following the rules.


----------



## Leri Hanson (Apr 3, 2008)

This same question recently came up. I'm using an extreme here, the Pit Bull/AmStaff which is THE most misunderstood breed. So of course, is the number one target of BSL. 

A young fellow new to sport training has high hopes of getting a top notch, world class APBT/AST and wants to compete internationally. I encouraged his enthusiasm but also questioned the legality of it even being possible? Some thought that if it was a FCI recognized breed that he'd be OK. Others say it's dependent on the individual country/providence's specific breed restrictions. For example, in Mexico APBT/AST can compete in protection sports (PP), obedience, weight pull etc. However, they can not compete in FR. In France, the breed can not compete and I believe the same holds true in Germany. In some parts of Canada my breed is forbidden to even exist, however the CRA allows us to play. I've been to FR trials where a French or Mexican judge presided and they did not want to judge my dog (APBT) and also the American Bulldogs entered simply based on the information they receive from "their" countries rules. Luckily, when in Rome........ ;-)

Jeff, I could be wrong but I do believe I can compete my Pit Bull in ARF since ACA does recognize (and promotes) the breed. 

I'd be interested and appreciative of any information other international WDF members might be able to supply.

Ms. Carla Restivo has been helping me research this. She put this same question out to a competitive/international message board and here were a few responses:

Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:01 pm Location: Belgium 
Re: Bite work allowed? 
In Belgium it's not allowed for the Amstaff. 
It's a rule from the Belgium kennel club. 
_____________________________ 

Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:48 pm Location: Netherlands 
Re: Bite work allowed? 
in holland i believe it is also forbidden... 
we tried our local club, and found out it was not allowed by kennelclub and law no exceptions 

______________________________ 

Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:00 pm Location: Stockholm 
Re: Bite work allowed? 
In Sweden the Am Staff cannot enter official protection trials as regulated by Swedish Kennel Club few years ago. The breed is however not prohibited from the sport - only from entering official SKK sanctioned trials. 

____________________________________ 

Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:22 pm 
In Australia they are not allowed to do bitework (not sure how 'discouraged' they are from other aspects of sport) but I know that I could do BH for example with my dogs. 

However, for some reason I thought that this was AST/pit bull specific. But, when you look at FCI rules, its only because ASTs dont fall into the category that SchH was designed for... So, most other breeds will also fall into the same basket. In US I think its different because that FCI rule doesnt apply but in Europe and Australia that rule is still in place... This is how I understand it.... 

_______________________________________ 


Location: normandy - France 
Re: Bite work allowed? 
in France, it is also forbidden 

________________________________________ 


Location: Netherlands 
Re: Bite work allowed? 

I wonder if it is still prohibited by law since the end of BSL. 
The kennel club can stop them from participating in recognized events, but I have seen images of clubs allowing them.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If it is one of the dogs that are not allowed, (which it is ) then ARF is going to follow that rule as far as I know. You would have to ask, as part of the deal is to see if the dog is worth breeding. That is why they cannot be neutered. Well I guess blue dog rules apply there, but that is once per lifetime.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The pit bull being accepted is a completely different thread. I happen to like the breed, but feel no need to try and compete with one. I also feel that in ten years there is a very strong possibility that they will not be allowed except in very few places in this country. I imagine then it will be even MORE popular with the idiots that cause all the problems.


----------



## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

I posted some pit stats a week or so back, so staggering are the numbers it's hard to even believe it, but it's fact

I'm talking about the number euthanized daily across the country and the number of new ones coming into shelters and animal control facilities daily

I have a personal connnection to the breed also and happen to think they are the most affectionate and human dependant breed of all time, which makes the numbers that much more sickening


----------



## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

There are legal issues that vary from country to country (and in the US, county to county) about the use of Pit Bulls and/or American Bulldogs in sport. This kind of thing is mentioned frequently on some of the working bulldog boards though I will be honest, I don't pay it enough mind to remember the details.

I am interested in whether or not ARF will allow the Pit Bull and the American Bulldog to compete in FR. 
Although my previous trainer did tell me that my Pit Bull mix would be able to compete in ARF - which may have been because he was mix, however he is also neutered. So who knows, maybe I just got wrong information.



> From the ARF Rulebook:
> "the dog must belong to one of the breeds on the working dog list drawn up by the Societe Centrale Canine, as well as on the list of dogs authorised by the cun-cbg to take part in biting sports; the dog must also have successfully passed all the tests in the French Certificate of Sociability and Aptitude for Use (CSAU)." pg 4, part B.


As for BSL, there is no doubt in my mind that one day Pit Bulls and American Bulldogs will be banned all across the country. People will still own the dogs, it will just be kept quiet. Once that happens though, rest assured that "they" will come after other breeds too. It won't be over until all we have left is a bunch of yappy kick-dogs and then PETA will insist that we should set them free to survive on their own in the wild.


----------



## Mara Jessup (Sep 7, 2010)

Alison Grubb said:


> As for BSL, there is no doubt in my mind that one day Pit Bulls and American Bulldogs will be banned all across the country. People will still own the dogs, it will just be kept quiet.


 I dunno. The breed ban has been so effective at preventing dog bites (insert sarcasm here because dog bite are up about 50%) in the UK that the RSPCA is recommending repealing it https://pawsandlearn.org/uploads/Breed_Specific_Legislation.pdf The Dutch had so much success with theirs that they actually did repeal it. Italy threw theirs out too.

And US cities are also seeing loads of success with those breed bans as well (more dripping sarcasm) Check out the results of the breed ban in Miami-Dade county in Florida - no pit bulls but the county does have the highest per capita incidence of dog bite in the state http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/Miami-Dade1.pdf


----------



## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

Unfortunately, common sense is not that common.
And media sensationalism seems to work pretty well.

I'd like to think that one day people will pull their heads out of their asses and stop dooming the dogs/breeds they don't even know. But I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Mara Jessup (Sep 7, 2010)

Alison Grubb said:


> Unfortunately, common sense is not that common.
> And media sensationalism seems to work pretty well.


No kidding! If Pit Bull dogs were as bad as the media makes them out to be there would be hundreds of people each day showing up at ERs around the country with bites from Pit Bulls.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I'd like to think that one day people will pull their heads out of their asses and stop dooming the dogs/breeds they don't even know. But I'm not holding my breath.

The breed is already doomed. It really is just a matter of time.

Quote: If Pit Bull dogs were as bad as the media makes them out to be there would be hundreds of people each day showing up at ERs around the country with bites from Pit Bulls.

Who is to say that there are not hundreds ?? That is a really small percentage of the total amount of people in the US.


----------



## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

IMHO pit bulls have been severely misrepresented throughout the world for many reasons. Their history & origins, myths about "locking jaws":roll: they go crazy](*,) & all other sorts of crap too stupid to mention. But the primary causes of discrimination against APBT comes from two sources: the media and the dogs appearance.
Lets face it. A well bred & properly conditioned APB with cropped ears can look a bit intimidating, but its because of the stigma that the media has tied to the dog to begin with. Another issue is that there are a lot of APBT's out there, scatterbred or gamebred, they are still pitbulls. Their numbers are so vast that no country in the world ,as far as i can tell, has an average number of how many there in their respective nation/area. So by their numbers they may tend to have been involved in a lot of bites. But they should not be banned, from bite sports or any other sport, and definitely not banned in general. 
IMO breed specific bias in dogs is just plain canine racism, & thats really f*_#!ked up considering the ones with prejudice arent even dogs. The most anyone can do is fight it.


----------



## Manon Lagniel (Jul 1, 2010)

Thank you for your answers, about bitework :smile:

About PitBulls, AST, or even Rottweilers or, actually, breeds which are big... we have a lot to do, and I don't even speak of bitework with dogs... - about bitework and breeds which are allowed to do it, it's a way to select a breed on its character. Then, I can understand that some breeds are not allowed to do bitework, like Labrador, who should be selected with hunting work... not bitework. It's a point of vew.

Back to the bans of some breeds in some countries, it's damn frightening, when you see veterinarians who tell us to be careful with a dog who does bitework... that it makes him more dangerous... and he argues that he has like 8 years of studdies... and don't even tell me about "protection" organizations who think that a happy dog is a dog who's lying on the floor all day long with only love and who does not sleep outside (poooooor doggy)... and these same "protection" organizations which don't react when we want to erase some breeds :-o and which don't react when politics do stupid laws... Anyway.

But maybe it's just a period for this type of dogs... remember, dobermann used to become crazy at the age of 7 (not anymore ?! lol)...


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

In our statistics in Switzerland, the dogs who do protection sport work do not rate especially in the bite statistics, actually nearly non-existent.

The main bites are to be found in the family - I think there the breed is irrevelant.

I think and hope that handlers of dogs in dog sport are aware of their dog's potentiality and exert far more caution over their dogs than the general public who think that their dogs are harmless. Not that the sport dog is more dangerous, on the contrary, the sport handlers have, as a rule, far more insight as to the dog's behaviour as any family dog owner.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Alison Grubb said:


> I am interested in whether or not ARF will allow the Pit Bull and the American Bulldog to compete in FR.


There is an American Bulldog that has competed in ARF, I believe it was posted here in some trial results. The dog earned a leg at FRI. There have also been dogs without FCI recognized pedigrees competing. So I think it's safe to say ARF does not follow the French rules in regards to what breeds can/cannot play, or requiring an FCI pedigree to compete, but have an "open door policy" similar to NARA's. I don't know if they have a bluebook for neutered dogs or mix breeds.


----------



## Courtney DuCharme (Feb 5, 2011)

"But maybe it's just a period for this type of dogs... remember, dobermann used to become crazy at the age of 7 (not anymore ?! lol)..."


LOL- I don't know- Rogue is only 5 months & she is pretty crazy......... not in the mean way though


----------



## clinton thomas morton (Jan 22, 2011)

Courtney DuCharme said:


> "But maybe it's just a period for this type of dogs... remember, dobermann used to become crazy at the age of 7 (not anymore ?! lol)..."
> 
> 
> LOL- I don't know- Rogue is only 5 months & she is pretty crazy......... not in the mean way though


just thought i would let yall know in arlington tx a husky was deemed dangerous because it chased
a duck at a public park whats next a chiweenie is dangerous because it kills a squirrle.before long
we wont be able to have a dog at all wothout very expensive insurance


----------

