# Oh look, I have to do drive building.



## Jeff Oehlsen

Esko is a GSD, Esko is a GSD. This is what I have to keep saying to myself over and over again.

He had these nice thresholds, and would play real nice with the tug, and then he started teething, and got all *** mouthed. Probably my rediculous standards for what I want to see. Everyone is telling me to shut up, but here is some video of the little ***.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zngkSO8Nz2A


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## Candy Eggert

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Esko is a GSD, Esko is a GSD. This is what I have to keep saying to myself over and over again.
> 
> He had these nice thresholds, and would play real nice with the tug, and then he started teething, and got all *** mouthed. Probably my rediculous standards for what I want to see. Everyone is telling me to shut up, but here is some video of the little ***.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zngkSO8Nz2A


Shut up  Were you expecting a Malinois in a GSD body?! LOL

Seriously do you think his thresholds are too high? I thought he looked good for a GSD puppy. Give him some time to mature...they don't come out of the womb "ready" like Malinois'.


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## Timothy Stacy

Your are expecting way to much. He is still a baby. I wouldn't give up on him just yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't want him I'll take him off your hands!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Sadly, I wasn't looking for a Mal, just the thresholds he had to start with. WTF ?? He will be 6 months old in a couple of days. I am thinking of changing his name to average.


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## Anita Griffing

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sadly, I wasn't looking for a Mal, just the thresholds he had to start with. WTF ?? He will be 6 months old in a couple of days. I am thinking of changing his name to average.


Oh I bet Esko was looking for you....loloolol :-({|=
AG


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## todd pavlus

I think you have been living with mals too long. He will grow into it. Someday I MIGHT be able to let my mali in the house and trust him not too rip it apart. My shepherd has a on/off switch that I like. Just 2 very different breeds


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## Carol Boche

*** mouthed???? <snort> 

Okay ALL....Jeff has a GAY dog!!!! Paybacks for all the times he called Schutzhund and SAR gay....

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Send him to me Jeff....


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## Konnie Hein

I will not post video of my same-age DS "detection" pup Jeff. That would just discourage you even more. :razz:

Just kidding. It will be interesting to see how this pup pans out.


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## Dave Colborn

Don't really care about the dog..no offense. He'll either work out to your standards, or he won't. At least he wasn't running behind you, sniffing the ground and jumping up on you to avoid the decoy. And he looked reasonably in to the work.

The decoy work was neat. I haven't done much leg stuff at all, and I saw some stuff I can use. For Mondio, where do you teach the dog to target? Is it all legs, or do you get them up in the body and arms as well? Do you teach specific targets to work on the grip and then teach them to get whatever they can if being esquived? Is the grip judged?


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## Paul Fox

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> and then he started teething, and got all *** mouthed.


Jeff, I make no claims to being an expert, far from it but all the clued up respected guys that I know say to give the bite work a rest while they are teething because it can really hurt and puts them off the hard bite for some time, maybe for ever.

That even meant me with my super hard, do it all Mali x GSD \\/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6712576/Crisp-lover-changes-name-to-Mr-Monster-Munch.html


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## mike suttle

I guess it all depends on your goals with the dog, you will be the judge of that obviously.
If I only had a couple dogs and I was going to play around with some sport it may be worth the time to let him grow up and see how he will do. I am sure he will work when he is an adult if you keep working with Kevin. but I think you can already see that he will not be a breeding quality aniimal for sure. if he were here at my kennel he would have a "free to good home" sign on his kennel.
I am not trying to bust your balls here, honestly. But I think you already have a gut feeling that he is not working as he should be working for his age. GSD or not, he should have more intensity in my opinion.
Hopefully this does not open a can of worms on here. I think you should place him with someone who has lower standards, and you should get a dog that you and I would agree has more intensity. 
I think Wayne Dodge has a GSD litter coming next week that will be something you are interested in. This is a litter that I would buy a puppy from.


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## Chris McDonald

Maybe he will be good for sch or sars? \\/\\/


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## Chris McDonald

"free to good home" sign on his kennel.

Oh dam, if I knew this was coming I would have never made my stupid little post. shit


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## Timothy Stacy

or you could get a couple decoys and do a bunch of ridiculous unorthodox shit and call it whatever you want. Then whose to say your doing anything wrong? \\/\\/


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## mike suttle

No worries Chris....that does not mean he is a bad dog at all, and I am sure that Jeff and Kevin can get this dog biting and working fine in another year. I just meant that he is not what I would call a "no brainer", meaning he is not a sure thing. Sometimes you will see a puppy this age and you just know he is a sure thing, there is no doubts, no "maybes". With Esko, I see a "maybe", not a no brainer sure thing.
Jeff and I have different objectives, I just meant that I dont have the room or the time to put into "maybes", so I would cut my losses and place him with someone who has more room and more time.
But Jeff may very well have enough time and enough room to wait him out and see how we will work in another 12 months.


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## Chris McDonald

mike suttle said:


> No worries Chris....that does not mean he is a bad dog at all, and I am sure that Jeff and Kevin can get this dog biting and working fine in another year. I just meant that he is not what I would call a "no brainer", meaning he is not a sure thing. Sometimes you will see a puppy this age and you just know he is a sure thing, there is no doubts, no "maybes". With Esko, I see a "maybe", not a no brainer sure thing.
> Jeff and I have different objectives, I just meant that I dont have the room or the time to put into "maybes", so I would cut my losses and place him with someone who has more room and more time.
> But Jeff may very well have enough time and enough room to wait him out and see how we will work in another 12 months.


I have seen a few crazy ass “no brainiers” in the past. I want a hard dog some day but after a few more years of learning. I kind of need my hands and fingers right now


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## Chris Michalek

I thought you were done with the sleeve shit?


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## Carol Boche

Chris McDonald said:


> Maybe he will be good for sch or sars? \\/\\/


:razz::razz: PPPPLLLBBBBBBTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!! LOL :razz::razz::razz:


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## Michelle Reusser

Don't name him average, name him Elton....John. LOL AH that's too bad Jeff. I'm sure he'll work in the end but your right, not my cup of tea either. I don't care if they are spitting teeth, ****er better bite that shit and not let go. I don't agree with those who quit working their dogs when they are shedding puppy teeth. That's when you get to find out how much pain they can take and how serious they want it.


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## Chris McDonald

Timothy Stacy said:


> or you could get a couple decoys and do a bunch of ridiculous unorthodox shit and call it whatever you want. Then whose to say your doing anything wrong? \\/\\/


Exactly, I know some jack ass who does that stuff.:razz: 
 Unfortunately for me there are things that can be done wrong in what many on here would call “unorthodox”. You might be surprised how much of a standard there is to non-standard stuff. You really might be surprised how many don’t feel that sports are not helping to contribute to better the working dog and are just as responsible for the GS falling apart as the show ring. I am outa my league here to continue this point though. I get emails from people who do “unorthodox” work from around the world and it’s amazing how they point out similar things. I can even pick out many things that should be done different in the videos. Just when I thought I found a scapegoat I find out I look like a retart to the orthodox and unorthodox guys out there.


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## Timothy Stacy

Oh that wasn't intened for you but "WHO THE CAP FIT- LET THEM WEAR IT"

Big problem with what your saying is,
"Criticism can never apply to me, because I do something nobody else does. The dog is SUPPOSED to do that."

Of course, of course.


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## Timothy Stacy

Did your dog come from no sport lines in it's past?


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## Chris McDonald

Timothy Stacy said:


> Oh that wasn't intened for you but "WHO THE CAP FIT- LET THEM WEAR IT"
> 
> Big problem with what your saying is,
> "Criticism can never apply to me, because I do something nobody else does. The dog is SUPPOSED to do that."
> 
> Of course, of course.


No problem Ill where the cap… and I see and understand you point. But believe it or not there are many who do a lot of things that are not judged on a field. But it doesn’t mean there in not a right way for it to be done. It may not be judged as critical as some things on a field though. There is a lot of justifiable criticism that many, many people can point out with my cowboy videos. I wish I had a lot more experience in all aspects of dog stuff so I can hold up my side of a conversation better, but it aint so. 
Where did I hit the soar note with you? Was it the SCH thing? Those SCH people are very sensitive


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## Chris McDonald

Timothy Stacy said:


> Did your dog come from no sport lines in it's past?


 
Tim this is again opining a can of worms that I am not able to hold up my side on. The breeder says no, but many don’t believe that to be possible. I really have no idea.


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## Timothy Stacy

LOL thin skin for sure! Guess I didn't expect that comment from you!
As long as you're happy-- you are doing fine. I don't have a problem with you doing your own thing but my panties got up my crack for the cheap shot from someone who has no experience in any of the sports. Any of these sports are super time consuming and take a dedicated person. These guys who compete on a national level in Schutzhund are pretty damn good. It's bad in any sport when people get a undeserving pass but it's the world we live in......

There are still good GSD's out there. They are a popular breed with many moron's breeding them. The sport has not ruined the ones I know!


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## mike suttle

Chris McDonald said:


> Tim this is again opining a can of worms that I am not able to hold up my side on. The breeder says no, but many don’t believe that to be possible. I really have no idea.


Hey Chris, where did you get your dog? He does not look like an FCI show dog to me (too big and too thick) so I would have to believe that his lines go back to working lines even without seeing his bloodlines.


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## Chris McDonald

mike suttle said:


> Hey Chris, where did you get your dog? He does not look like an FCI show dog to me (too big and too thick) so I would have to believe that his lines go back to working lines even without seeing his bloodlines.


Mike, Once I say where I got him the typical pissing match will start with no result but a locked thread. ](*,)
That being said I would think that is possible to have dogs with no show stuff in them. I bought my dog because he fits what I wanted/ needed. I don’t know anything about bloodlines or any of that stuff and it really doesn’t matter to me. I never got hips and elbows x-rayed. He is what he is. 
I didn’t even know you could really tell all that much from a dog just by looking.


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## Timothy Stacy

I remember something about Baden K9, is that right?

I'd imagine there are working dogs somewhere back there...... since they didn't invent the breed!


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## mike suttle

Chris McDonald said:


> Mike, Once I say where I got him the typical pissing match will start with no result but a locked thread. ](*,)
> That being said I would think that is possible to have dogs with no show stuff in them. I bought my dog because he fits what I wanted/ needed. I don’t know anything about bloodlines or any of that stuff and it really doesn’t matter to me. I never got hips and elbows x-rayed. He is what he is.
> I didn’t even know you could really tell all that much from a dog just by looking.


I think I know where he came from. i can tell by the build of the dog he likley has very little if any show lines in him. This will sound crazy to you, but I can tell by just seeing the videos of the dog where he was trained. PM me if you want a detailed explaination of what I mean by this....by the way i mean nothing bad by it all. 
What matters is this.....do YOU like the dog? I know that you like him, so who cares what anyone else on here thinks or says about him.


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## Paul Fox

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I don't agree with those who quit working their dogs when they are shedding puppy teeth. That's when you get to find out how much pain they can take and how serious they want it.


Hey, I was just helping Jeff out with “reasons” for when he realises he bought a shitter lol. 

That said, the bully pup I had as a child was ragged so hard his K9’s pointed at you and wore away by the time he was 4yrs old , in the end, he would “gum” you with some force, never a no shitter though! :wink:


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## Jason Lin

Can someone explain to me what the problem was with Esko? Not possessive enough? Is that what everyone is shaking their heads over - that he loses the sleeve/bite pillow too easily?

Thanks.


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## Christopher Jones

Is it just me or does Jeff look like Nick Nolte? Everytime I see video of Jeff I think about the mug shot from when Nolte was arrested.......


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## Carol Boche

Christopher Jones said:


> Is it just me or does Jeff look like Nick Nolte? Everytime I see video of Jeff I think about the mug shot from when Nolte was arrested.......


:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## susan tuck

Christopher Jones said:


> Is it just me or does Jeff look like Nick Nolte? Everytime I see video of Jeff I think about the mug shot from when Nolte was arrested.......


Maybe a cross between Nolte and John Lithgow


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## Timothy Stacy

Christopher Jones said:


> Is it just me or does Jeff look like Nick Nolte? Everytime I see video of Jeff I think about the mug shot from when Nolte was arrested.......


Are you talking about the Nick Nolte that was whacked out on the liquid G. That is too funny!


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## Jason Hammel

You guys mean this one? I'd give jeff the benefit of the doubt I don't think he would be caught dead in a shirt like that.


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## Michelle Reusser

Jason Hammel said:


> You guys mean this one? I'd give jeff the benefit of the doubt I don't think he would be caught dead in a shirt like that.


You mean that's NOT Jeff? :-k


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I had a shirt like that. Bartended in it.

The sad thing is I will just train the little shit and do mondio with him. I haven't seen too many that weren't even bigger **** than he is.

I was hoping for a little more juice. Oh well.


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## Meng Xiong

Carol Boche said:


> *** mouthed???? <snort>
> 
> Okay ALL....Jeff has a GAY dog!!!! Paybacks for all the times he called Schutzhund and SAR gay....
> 
> AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> Send him to me Jeff....


 
LoL...


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Sad thing is he would probably do real well in faggotty Sch, and definately in SAR, he uses his nose quite well.


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## Carol Boche

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sad thing is he would probably do real well in faggotty Sch, and definately in SAR, he uses his nose quite well.


YAY for Esko!!!! :razz::mrgreen:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Soon he will be in France.


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## Timothy Stacy

What do you mean?


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## Timothy Stacy

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Sad thing is he would probably do real well in faggotty Sch, and definately in SAR, he uses his nose quite well.


National competitor in Schutzhund or a show line type?
Just take a pic of him standing on some rubble and sell him as a disaster dog!!!
Oh yeah and don't forget his vest


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## Jennifer Coulter

I certainly don't want a gay dog for SAR...and EVERYONE says their dog has a really good nose. =;

I don't know a lot about GSD's, but had my fingers crossed for you that you would find one to slay at mondio.


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## Chris McDonald

Tim do you know you typed “got my panties up my crack”? Jeffs *** dog is brining it out in others now.


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## Timothy Stacy

LOL...Chris M. your dog looks really good and your not doing anything wrong. Sometimes your better off dealing with your own thing than dealing with a club! I'd be proud of that dog, and that is the truth!!! It don't matter where he came from. Your right I'm getting soft and gay


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## Chris McDonald

Timothy Stacy said:


> LOL...Chris M. your dog looks really good and your not doing anything wrong. Sometimes your better off dealing with your own thing than dealing with a club! I'd be proud of that dog, and that is the truth!!! It don't matter where he came from. Your right I'm getting soft and gay


Ha :razz: 
I can’t be doing anything wrong cause I aint really doing nothing


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## todd pavlus

Put some bitework on him, Basic obediance, teach him the OG, and sell him to a very wealthy man for $20k


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## Timothy Stacy

Chris McDonald said:


> Ha :razz:
> I can’t be doing anything wrong cause I aint really doing nothing


Yes exactly


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## Chris McDonald

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I certainly don't want a gay dog for SAR...and EVERYONE says their dog has a really good nose. =;
> 
> I don't know a lot about GSD's, but had my fingers crossed for you that you would find one to slay at mondio.


If dogs have such sensitive noses how come they can sleep through there farts, when me with just a normal people nose have to leave the room?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
I certainly don't want a gay dog for SAR...and EVERYONE says their dog has a really good nose. 

He uses his nose a lot. Is that better ?? He is just about 6 months old right now, and we didn't film the first part of the training session for some reason unbeknownst to me.

He stood in the door, and that kinda took a bunch off the faggotty thing. He has never seen that before, and at 6 months, when Kevin rushed him, he went for the bite.

He was too young probably to see that, but did real well considering. This was also the first time he has ever had anything on a line, so his habit of dropping the tug, jambierre, whatever, was being worked on. Once the decoy is walking away, he has little interest in him, or the toy. LOL

He has some threshold problems, so we are gonna work on them. He did get all pussy mouthed while teething, something I don't care to see. We did not work him, but one time on the rag, and he was chewy. I would prefer that he got pissed off, but he didn't. He didn't have these problems before he started teething, but it makes me wonder. I have seen enough dogs start off great guns, and then get higher thresholds as they get older.

Kevin and I worked him Sunday, and he was biting well, and wrapping Kevin's leg. We will have to work on his threshold issues, but he was that way before he was teething, I think he will come back a bit. I will film the next training session, and show that one.

Still a little ***. 

He is gonna be a pain in the ass in OB. You saw his grandfather Sarco work and I think that he is a lot like him in a lot of ways. He doesn't quit, and that is why he is still here.


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## jack van strien

jeff,a few questions.Why are you not helping Esko,why is the line so long and why do you work him so long?
I have a ten month old ds malinois cross and he shows not much interest in biting at all.
I am not worried about him at all because i see things in him that i really like.I have never been impressed with young dogs going crazy about bitework.Don't get me wrong i am not saying it is not good but it does not mean so much to me.
I do not believe people can build any kind of drive into a dog,it is in the dog or it is not.
When i let my guy bite i hold him on a short leash and encourage him all the way,one bite and he can take the tug to his kennel.If he drops it he will be teased some more but he will not get another chance to bite!
Give the dog time and don't get frustrated with him,let him watch other dogs doing bitework from close up but dont let him bite.You and i are having dogs for our enjoyment and not for financial gain,we can afford to wait!


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## Mike Scheiber

Not sure what your helper was waging around in front of your dog but he needs JUTE that hokey suit material cuff just don't have the same allure, attraction and taste of JUTE.
Get your self a pack of hot dogs and a potato sack and he should spark rite up for ya.
Oh hes real impressed with that racket stick get a god damn whip or **** sakes hes a German Shepherd.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Did you say something about jute ??

Jack, I do not always work him that long, for the most part, I have just been working on him ignoring me in OB work, or that is what it feels like. LOL

I will get to use the e-collar to train this dog in OB. For whatever else he is lacking in, he is not lacking in character. His sense of self is intact, and willingess for OB is not high on his list.......yet. : )


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## Christopher Jones

Whats he like out of drive? Is he handler sensitive or quite strong willed? 
To me he just looks like a nice GSD puppy, which is exactly why I moved away from them. I prefer to see my pups drive and hardness early on, while most GSD's do require time to mature. 
It is intersting to see how a GSD bred for FR actually differs from a GSD bred for IPO. Keep showing how he progresses, if you end up keeping him.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

He is strong willed for sure, and not real handler sensitive. If I get on him about being too much to my unGodly tolerant Mals, then he gets it. I would say he is somewhere in the high middle.

I was really hoping that having that many ring dogs in the pedigree would get me lower thresholds. If he keeps going the way he is, he should be fine, the video was a bit of a goof to see who would say what.

Before this video, he had never been worked like that, and not really worked much at all. Been working on his stubborn asswipe side in OB, trying to get him a bit of a foundation. I will let you know if that house ever gets built, probably looks like it is on sand, and made out of butter right now. Gotta keep hacking away at it, I am used to those damn Loups du soleil mals. Gonna have to actually work at training. Damm.


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## Christopher Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> He is strong willed for sure, and not real handler sensitive. If I get on him about being too much to my unGodly tolerant Mals, then he gets it. I would say he is somewhere in the high middle.
> 
> I was really hoping that having that many ring dogs in the pedigree would get me lower thresholds. If he keeps going the way he is, he should be fine, the video was a bit of a goof to see who would say what.
> 
> Before this video, he had never been worked like that, and not really worked much at all. Been working on his stubborn asswipe side in OB, trying to get him a bit of a foundation. I will let you know if that house ever gets built, probably looks like it is on sand, and made out of butter right now. Gotta keep hacking away at it, I am used to those damn Loups du soleil mals. Gonna have to actually work at training. Damm.


So there is less "bidability" from him than a typical IPO dog you think? 
So what thresholds do you think are too high on him? 
I dont mind a stubborn dog, it gives them personality and character


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Currently, his first bite is weak. the tug slips right out of his mouth. I think that while this might go away, it is an indication that he will need a lot of work staying in drive on the OG and the escort. I think that he could be put to sleep, and a lot of points taken from him.

I have not worked him a lot, but it used to be that if I was playing with him, he was locked on, and right away. Now it takes two or three misses to get him to go, and that is after the first few, and the tug sliding out of his mouth.

Maybe it is the *** mouth he has, and it is still ****ing with his mind a bit. I see a lot of electricity in this pups future. The work that we will have to do to get him to go right away, is gonna make it a pain in the ass to out him.

Quote: So there is less "bidability" from him than a typical IPO dog you think?

Definately.


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## Bob Scott

Damn Jeff! Let him grow up. Looks like he could be a nice dog. You've just spent to much time with those non thinking dogs. :wink:


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## ann schnerre

well, if worst comes to worst jeff, i can give him a home with my "show" dog. maybe. but he has to be willing to bite until he bleeds like Ike does. no **** here


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## Michelle Reusser

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> I certainly don't want a gay dog for SAR...and EVERYONE says their dog has a really good nose.
> 
> He uses his nose a lot. Is that better ?? He is just about 6 months old right now, and we didn't film the first part of the training session for some reason unbeknownst to me.
> 
> He stood in the door, and that kinda took a bunch off the faggotty thing. He has never seen that before, and at 6 months, when Kevin rushed him, he went for the bite.
> 
> He was too young probably to see that, but did real well considering. This was also the first time he has ever had anything on a line, so his habit of dropping the tug, jambierre, whatever, was being worked on. Once the decoy is walking away, he has little interest in him, or the toy. LOL
> 
> He has some threshold problems, so we are gonna work on them. He did get all pussy mouthed while teething, something I don't care to see. We did not work him, but one time on the rag, and he was chewy. I would prefer that he got pissed off, but he didn't. He didn't have these problems before he started teething, but it makes me wonder. I have seen enough dogs start off great guns, and then get higher thresholds as they get older.
> 
> Kevin and I worked him Sunday, and he was biting well, and wrapping Kevin's leg. We will have to work on his threshold issues, but he was that way before he was teething, I think he will come back a bit. I will film the next training session, and show that one.
> 
> Still a little ***.
> 
> He is gonna be a pain in the ass in OB. You saw his grandfather Sarco work and I think that he is a lot like him in a lot of ways. He doesn't quit, and that is why he is still here.


 
Oh well, I went back and watched the whole thing. First minute bored me to tears the first time, so I shut it off. He perked up after the first few misses like you said and got better at the end. Now that I know you haven't worked him much, I'd say he's about as gay as the little **** I have @ 9 mos. My *** likes to drop the pup sleeve too or let it get yanked out of his face a few times. His brother never did this shit, so I'm not sure what the deal is? But the bro got worked from 9 weeks on and this one has sat and rotted for months. Hopefully both our queers can benefit from some good training. 

Hang on to him for another 6 mos. I'm not thrilled with my fagboy either but I've seen worse, so he stays. Plus my trainers seem to see something I don't, in him and like him more than I do. If I get sick of feeding him, maybe they will buy the next bag?

Everybody says when you luckout with a real nice dog, it's hard to find another to fill those paws. Maybe you suffer from the same sickness? Watch, I'll be on a ****ing scooter still looking in 52 yrs.


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## Gillian Schuler

Well, maybe he's breeding material and maybe he's not. One video tells it all (if this were so easy).

One thing is clear, without support, he stood his ground, just like our little nipper. Toni just held the long line and stood still and the helper said, "well, Toni", you could have supported him "but what he's got, he's got". I showed him some videos of other young dogs working and told him to watch the other handlers at training. The picture looked better but what's wrong at looking at what the dog can do without support.

I've just watched Sarco's video again. I can't think that this breeder sells just "shitty dogs". Maybe I'm naive.

I like the description of the character of the dog. Nearly all working line GSDs bite but not all have strong characters. For me, breeding would also depend on the character of the dog and not just on the bite at 6 months.

My elder GSD had his first real biting at 9 months and the decoy (breeder and good decoy) swapped the young dog sleeve for a adult one because he bit so hard. What he would have looked like at 6 months doesn't interest me, therefore.

Jack van Strien says he doesn't like to see pups biting like crazy and I don't either. Ever seen tham at 2 years? Maybe some work out, maybe some don't.

So, someone show me a video of a pup at 6 months, biting like he's breeding quality!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

This is not about his breeder. Not even a little bit. He has said that if the dog doesn't work out the way I want he will send me another.


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## Gillian Schuler

Who's talking foremost about his breeder? My main issue is with a one-off biting video???

And just so you get it correct, it's not about the pup's handler either - I'm talking about the pup, man! So calm down in your short white socks lol


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Jeff,

What I'm curious about is what does his breeder say about the "stage" he's in. How does he develop the dogs in his line? If he had it to begin with will he come back to it if you let him gel a bit.

Terrasita


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## Ted Efthymiadis

I worked a 6 month old gsd about 6 months ago....
I thought the dog was a shitter and should be sent back.

Turns out the lady kept the dog, and so I invited her out again to try the dog at one year old. 
The dog's drives really changed 100% for the better.

I will never give up on a 6 month old dog again. 
I used to be of the opinion... either a puppy has it or he doesn't. Not anymore, sometimes they came peak later in life.


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## Nicole Stark

Christopher Jones said:


> Is it just me or does Jeff look like Nick Nolte? Everytime I see video of Jeff I think about the mug shot from when Nolte was arrested.......


HA! That was REALLY funny. Honestly Jeff, I didn't even notice. I lost interest shortly after the first minute. After a while, the stuff just gets repetitive and I end up wandering off to find something else to do. That's probably a good indication that I'll likely end up a bag lady in a few years I suppose.


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## Mike Scheiber

Ted [LEFT said:


> *Efthymiadis*[/LEFT];153870]I worked a 6 month old *gsd*​ about 6 months ago....
> I thought the dog was a *shitter*​ and should be sent back.
> 
> Turns out the lady kept the dog, and so I invited her out again to try the dog at one year old.
> The dog's drives really changed 100% for the better.
> 
> I will never give up on a 6 month old dog again.
> I used to be of the opinion... either a puppy has it or he doesn't. Not anymore, sometimes they came peak later in life.


It can go the other way and they can crap out at 14/16 months


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## Erin Hayes

Jason Lin said:


> Can someone explain to me what the problem was with Esko? Not possessive enough? Is that what everyone is shaking their heads over - that he loses the sleeve/bite pillow too easily?
> 
> Thanks.


Being a n00b, I am wondering the same thing...or did I miss where it was explained?


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## Terrasita Cuffie

I'm just curious. Do you guys [bite work context] not see them go through crappy stages only to come back full blast when they mature? Or, and I understand that its preferred, the better dogs are what you see is what you get from puppyhood to maturity? That's why I'm wondering with a breeder who has obviously bred a line of dogs in FR and should have an idea looking at his puppies which are most likely to pan out and which are questionable. Its hit and miss if you are just breeding dog A to dog B. Is there any way to decrease the risk of the puppy crapping out with the selection/breeding process?

Terrasita


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## Mike Scheiber

Erin Hayes said:


> Being a n00b, I am wondering the same thing...or did I miss where it was explained?


The pup is to young to pass judgement some lines mature faster or in different ways if Jeff did his homework he should have some information from the breeder on how this pup might come up.
Its Jeff's pup if he don't like what he see's in the pup and thinks hes a project or a wast of effort that pretty much up to him his time and effort.


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## Bob Scott

I'm not a big believer in flushing a pup just because it has problems in teething. 
I don't believe in thinking "it should be able to handle the pain" makes it a better dog as an adult.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

There are a couple of things. I actually do like dogs. The breeder is French, so I ask him things and I might as well talk to the wall. I think he sent me a video the last time I asked him a question. Pathetic.

So much for finding something cool and with low thresholds in France. It was worth the try. 

I also think that what I see as extreme is very different from what others see as extreme. There is always an "excuse" to go along with whatever the dogs problem is. I was hoping that the dog would not go all pussy from biting while teething. This is a GAY sch leftover that the EXPERT breeders shoved down unwitting customers for years to cover up the fact that their dogs are little **** at heart.

I have worked him since then, we got some video, I will try and get it sent, but the focus has been Buko, since I have a trial this weekend.

He bites hard for his age and does have passion for it, as you see him trying to grab Kevins legs. That is cute, but at the heart of it, his little mouth hurt, and he went pussy.

Most people here know **** all about what a high end dog really looks like, God knows I have seen average sold here as high end many times. I like this little shit dog, he is pretty funny, so what is the worst that can happen ?? I already took it in the eye socket, so why not train him ?? I am sure he will be able to be sold to a police dept.

I think that this will be helpful for those that are curious as to what I think high end is. LOL I hate spun up dogs, I think that dogs that can't out cleanly are **** all useless, and I hate people that make excuses or settle. Just say what the **** the dog is and either train it, or sell it.

The last few sessions Kevin is just walking up and working the dog. None of this running about. He wanted to bite the bigger jambierre, and was looking for it instead of the smaller thinner jambierres.


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## milder batmusen

todd pavlus said:


> I think you have been living with mals too long. He will grow into it. Someday I MIGHT be able to let my mali in the house and trust him n
> ot too rip it apart. My shepherd has a on/off switch that I like. Just 2 very different breeds


I read that many has some negative things to say about the GSD maybe the mals has higher drive than most GSD but they dont think at all the malinois it just react og does what the handler tell him if the handler tells of a 20 store building and kill itself to get the ball he will do it and think when he is flying 20 store down killing himself so not a very inteligent breed 

and I know when you train with them they learn very easy but overall inteligens is not its strong side


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## Ted Efthymiadis

Mike Scheiber said:


> It can go the other way and they can crap out at 14/16 months


Absolutely. However you will never know if you just send the dog back at 6 months.


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## Paul Fox

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> Absolutely. However you will never know if you just send the dog back at 6 months.


Dont send it back then, do some other stuff other than bite work during that period like OB, muzzel work, tracking etc etc.


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## Debbie Skinner

milder batmusen said:


> I read that many has some negative things to say about the GSD maybe the mals has higher drive than most GSD but they dont think at all the malinois it just react og does what the handler tell him if the handler tells of a 20 store building and kill itself to get the ball he will do it and think when he is flying 20 store down killing himself so not a very inteligent breed
> 
> and I know when you train with them they learn very easy but overall inteligens is not its strong side



I think most of us will take a "stupid" dog (malinois or GSD or ??) that takes risks in the pursuit of work or while taking commands from it's owner. Pretty stupid dog to step up and take on the fight. A smart dog would get the heck out of there or quit. 

BTW, I trained and sold one of those "stupid" malinois and it was deployed on the Coranado Bridge in San Diego on December 31, 2007, New Years Eve. Dog bit the suspect and the guy jumped off the bridge. Dog died. Was he stupid? A big memorial service was held for "Stryker" and he was recognized as a hero. http://www.pawsnclaws.us/strike_ped.htm

Sorry to get off topic.


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## Cesar A. Flores Dueñas

I like that kind of Stupid Dogs


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Memorial service for the terminally stupid. LOL I like that.


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## Daryl Ehret

I don't buy it. Saying that a courageous dog can't be intelligent. Like saying a dog with a LOT of civil drive can't have a LOT of prey drive, too.


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