# Some MR cross training



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Doing some cross training with Kita to prepare her for trialing in Mondio Ring.

Face attack with accessories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5-3OEYcRJQ

The blind search and escort. This is still a new skill overall so we are keeping it fairly basic (decoy isn't climbing over stuff yet), she's also still confused about him walking out of the blind vs escaping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwkU0teYfs4


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## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

Great vid. What trial are you going to? Best of luck.


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## Mac McCluskey (May 17, 2007)

nice looking female Kadi!
with a good solid foundation in French Ring, the cross over should be no problem!

Mac


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Hell of a dog, Kadi. Very nice work with her.

Best of luck with your future training.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

NICE job!


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## Oscar Mora (Mar 31, 2010)

Nice vid Kadi!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

chad paquin said:


> Great vid. What trial are you going to? Best of luck.


I don't have a specific trial picked out yet, but it sounds like there will be quite a few in my area this year, at least within driving distance. Kita already has her FRI so I'd like to start her in MRII, but we'll see where she's at when the time comes, we may just do an MRI and then bump up to MRII later. We have a fair amount of work to do to make the jump into MRII. She likes the little wood though (yeah hunt drive :-D) so at least she's picking that up fast. The other stuff is just modifying what she already knows for FR. She's also taking some time off for maternal duties, so we'll take a hit in training time there. The down side of training/trialing a female.

I have to brush up on my rules also, the last dog I trialed in Mondio Ring was Kita's great grandma LOL


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## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

Ya i here ya on the working a female thing. Dont know if there is any tricks tto keep them out of season till you are done trialing. Best of luck.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

chad paquin said:


> Ya i here ya on the working a female thing. Dont know if there is any tricks tto keep them out of season till you are done trialing. Best of luck.


There are, but nothing I would give a female I thought I'd breed later. The show dog people use a product, something like check drops? that will delay a heat cycle. But I'd be worried messing with the horomones like that would cause issues down the road. I just usually train and trial them in heat. Have to go last, but oh well.


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## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

Heard something about copper bowls. Giving water n food in them to hold off there heat. Going to look into it.


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## Benjamin Allanson (May 2, 2008)

Don't they have doggy birth control?


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## eugene ramirez (Jun 22, 2010)

Nice dog, it also depends on the female. Some females are not adversely affected during their heat.


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio (Jan 24, 2011)

Why is this a good dog? Just wondering if people can tell that much from the video. The dog got whacked by paper streamers in the first video, does that really impress people? Looks like a regular malinois to me, nothing special.


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio (Jan 24, 2011)

The dog in the second video doesn't handle the pressure well when the decoy bends down to look at him. He would fold under a pressure situation.


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## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

Hey Dom sport work may not be your thing an thats ok. People just trying to suport others in what they do . Every dig can be picked apart but being that - all the time and spending your life looking for it is no way to live. Bottom line you feed your dog i will feed mine and best of luck to you in what ever you do with your dog.


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio (Jan 24, 2011)

Your right, that was a bit critical. People sometimes see dogs like this and want to breed it.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Dominic D'Ambrosio said:


> Why is this a good dog? Just wondering if people can tell that much from the video. The dog got whacked by paper streamers in the first video, does that really impress people? Looks like a regular malinois to me, nothing special.


It's a dog in training for a certain sports discipline and executing an exercise. Purpose is not to do something impressive but to show the dog's progress



Dominic D'Ambrosio said:


> The dog in the second video doesn't handle the pressure well when the decoy bends down to look at him. He would fold under a pressure situation.


It isn't the decoy's intention to put pressure on the dog. The dog is LEARNING a certain exercise and he is guiding her in the right position.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

eugene ramirez said:


> Nice dog, it also depends on the female. Some females are not adversely affected during their heat.


What I've noticed with most of mine is they get stronger, but also not as clean in the work. Little bitchier in the bitework, more prone to cheap shots and slow outs. Most aren't so bad they can't be trialed in heat, we'll see with Kita. She seems to be a little worse than the others were.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Martine Loots said:


> It's a dog in training for a certain sports discipline and executing an exercise. Purpose is not to do something impressive but to show the dog's progress
> 
> It isn't the decoy's intention to put pressure on the dog. The dog is LEARNING a certain exercise and he is guiding her in the right position.


 
Correct. In a few months, I'll post another video of the exercise, and the progress she's made (hopefully LOL) will be obvious to those viewing it.

We want her to lay down during the guarding, not be popping up into a sit, definitely not be taking those cheap shots LOL Not only is the decoy telling her to lay down, the camera person was also.

That video is from 3-4 weeks ago, we have moved away from the decoy corrections with her since then as she just wanted to fight back and we weren't getting clarity in the exercise. She's already made more progress in 2 sessions with the new method than she made in a couple months of sessions with the previous method.


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio (Jan 24, 2011)

I understand it's a exercise. I'm listening to all the compliments thinking ? I see a dog that gets nervous simply by the decoy looking at down at it at one point. I'm not into throwing out compliments on dogs that are average by saying how nice they look. I don't see it!


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## Percy Longfellow (Oct 24, 2010)

> It isn't the decoy's intention to put pressure on the dog.


And yet the dog displays that he feels pressured. I fail to see how the decoy's intentions have anything to do with this.

In Europe, we call that an American export.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Percy Longfellow said:


> And yet the dog displays that he feels pressured. I fail to see how the decoy's intentions have anything to do with this.
> 
> In Europe, we call that an American export.


What do you mean "we" call that an American export?
You're supposed to be an American lawyer, if one is to believe your bio, which of course no one does.
I must have missed the believable bio you were supposed to provide before you were allowed to post any more


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## Percy Longfellow (Oct 24, 2010)

My close European associates and I.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> What do you mean "we" call that an American export?
> You're supposed to be an American lawyer, if one is to believe your bio, which of course no one does.
> I must have missed the believable bio you were supposed to provide before you were allowed to post any more


 
His bio said, quote; "Ask Percy anything".


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## Percy Longfellow (Oct 24, 2010)

I encourage that. But let's keep it civil and related to our passion of dogs. Thank you.


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio (Jan 24, 2011)

I see people in the personal protection arena get their egos inflated all the time from the decoy they pay. Your dog is great, you owe me 25 dollars! Come again.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Percy Longfellow said:


> I encourage that. But let's keep it civil and related to our passion of dogs. Thank you.


Yes, of course. Thankyou.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

"Percy" and "Dominic", did you watch the entire video? Did you see the clear use of decoy corrections?

The dog came into the blind and screwed up. Of course she felt some pressure when the decoy bent over, past experience tells her that he may correct her. He didn't correct her, simply gave her some verbal/body language guidance, but I did, with the electric. That little jump back was me hitting her with the collar. 

Considering we use decoy corrections in our training, it wouldn't make sense for her to not "give" to the training decoy. If she just wanted to fight him, and sometimes she does, hence a recent change in methods, it would just spiral up into "ugly" real fast.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Percy Longfellow said:


> I encourage that. But let's keep it civil and related to our passion of dogs. Thank you.


Percy,

There is no civility when one party YOU, doesn't have the courtesy to use their real name and then presumes to lecture the other members of this forum.

MODERATOR

I thought it was forum policy that you had to use your real name?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Thanks for posting, Kadi. I appreciate when folks post videos still in the learning stage instead of the nearly perfect trial video. It seems over the last 5 years or so since the advent of YouTube, people are less and less inclined to post training videos as they don't want to be ridiculed, especially by people who don't know what is going on. My camera is pretty kaput at the moment and don't have the money to get a new one, that's my problem... :-?


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## Percy Longfellow (Oct 24, 2010)

Ms. Thingvall,

I appreciate the time you took to explain that. You're right in that it's much easier to play at the sports when the dog lacks fight drive. You summed that up better than I could.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Percy Longfellow said:


> You're right in that it's much easier to play at the sports when the dog lacks fight drive. You summed that up better than I could.


I actually didn't say that. It is one of the reasons we are moving away from a style of training that includes decoy corrections, because she will fight them. But that doesn't mean it can't be done, there are other methods that will just work better for her. I'm not sure I'd call either method "easier", just that one is more appropriate for a specific dog than the other. 

Course then there is the whole argument about wether or not "fight" is a drive LOL


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

sorry double post


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Percy Longfellow said:


> And yet the dog displays that he feels pressured. I fail to see how the decoy's intentions have anything to do with this.
> 
> In Europe,* we* call that an American export.


Contrary to you *I *am from Europe so no need to explain to me what we might call things...

And if you don't know it's normal that a dog feels some kind of stress when being taught an exercise then you sure haven't done much training yet.


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## Dominic D'Ambrosio (Jan 24, 2011)

Guess this is a nice forum where everyone gets their ego inflated through the dog. Fine I agree, the dog is great. Although a bit to reactive and not confident enough for me. 
Mr. Loots, do you train with this dog?


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Dominic D'Ambrosio said:


> Guess this is a nice forum where everyone gets their ego inflated through the dog. Fine I agree, the dog is great. Although a bit to reactive and not confident enough for me.
> Mr. Loots, do you train with this dog?


No, I'm from Belgium and I'm not into French Ring at all.
I simply don't like things being mixed up and I prefer to see some respect for other people's work and training even though it may not be something you like.


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## Dominique Domogala (Nov 16, 2010)

chad paquin said:


> Ya i here ya on the working a female thing. Dont know if there is any tricks tto keep them out of season till you are done trialing. Best of luck.


 
if you have a female and you train with them many times a week , they seem to get into heat later .

i know females that didn't came into heat during trial season . but when off season they almost instantley came into heat , i think it has to do whith the pressure that falls away


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## chad paquin (Apr 16, 2010)

Dominique Domogala said:


> if you have a female and you train with them many times a week , they seem to get into heat later .
> 
> i know females that didn't came into heat during trial season . but when off season they almost instantley came into heat , i think it has to do whith the pressure that falls away


So not sure how to take that post. But ok.


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## Dominique Domogala (Nov 16, 2010)

chad paquin said:


> So not sure how to take that post. But ok.


 
i was talking about the problem of the heat about female dogs . in the nvbk there aren't many female dogs just because its a problem because you can't train them when they come in heat . you have to trial as last dog of the day when you have a female .


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Dominique Domogala said:


> if you have a female and you train with them many times a week , they seem to get into heat later .
> 
> i know females that didn't came into heat during trial season . but when off season they almost instantley came into heat , i think it has to do whith the pressure that falls away


I think the same is true for serious Human Female athletes as well. At least that was what I was told when I was younger.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

will fernandez said:


> I think the same is true for serious Human Female athletes as well. At least that was what I was told when I was younger.


They don't have to be athletes....stress can do it quite simply on it's own.


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## Dominique Domogala (Nov 16, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> They don't have to be athletes....stress can do it quite simply on it's own.


 
yes also true , when doing a trial you have to put pressure on your dog to get every point correct .

that causes stress , but also the fact that they have to work very hard and strict . 

in my opinion thats the reason why they come into heat later , when the fysical and mental work stops and they can relax for a few days /weeks


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

will fernandez said:


> I think the same is true for serious Human Female athletes as well. At least that was what I was told when I was younger.


Absolutely true, according to a friend whose daughter is in the dance program at Juillard. Although with the female dancers, malnutrition also takes a toll...


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

When I was doing sports, way back when LOL, my coach told me that in women being below a certain percent body fat would cause you to stop having periods. Considering how slim many people keep their working dogs, I would hazard this may play into the heat cycles also. If the dogs body doesn't think it's healthy enough to carry a litter, it may not go into heat until it gains weight.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Dominique Domogala said:


> yes also true , when doing a trial you have to put pressure on your dog to get every point correct .


Wrong person lol


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Percy Longfellow said:


> And yet the dog displays that he feels pressured. I fail to see how the decoy's intentions have anything to do with this.
> 
> 
> In Europe, we call that an American export.


Thought you were unjustly kicked off. Did you get my PM?


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