# Elbow Hygroma



## Anna Kasho

Havoc has developed a Hygroma on his right elbow. It seems to have stabilised at about golf-ball size, and isn't bothering him in the least. I'm not sure how he got it, could be the "sleeping on hard surfaces" because he shreds everything in the crate, so doesn't get anything except for a fairly tough rubber cow mat... Or could be from an injury, because he is growing in different directions and is a klutz right now.

My vet gave me three options:
1) drain it and wrap his leg - it is very likely to come back, and draining is also a chance to introduce an infection.
2) surgically implant a drain, and flush the thing daily - again some chance of infection, but it will stay flat and will hopefully heal in time.
3) surgically remove it and the surrounding tissues - best chance of resolving it permanently, according to my vet.

For now, I've chosen to do nothing untill I do some research and lern enough to make a good decision. Do any of you have any experience with that sort of thing, any advice? I am reading everything I can, would love to hear opinions, suggestions, treatments that did or did not work. Anything.


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## Connie Sutherland

A forum-person successfully treated his dog's early hygroma by creating a garment that padded the spot so that she was effectively carrying the soft "bedding" around all the time. I think he used a sweater with a lot of extra padding at her elbow area.

What you're being told makes me think that your dog's is infected (but not ulcerated)... ?

How bad is it? Infected? Draining? The treatment is based on whether it's complicated by infection or not, I believe.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

> A forum-person successfully treated his dog's early hygroma


And *I* was that person! dun dun dunnnnn.............

Yeah, went to C&A and grabbed a kids wool sweater, doubled up the sleeve and stitched it in place right on the elbow. The other side I cut to about elbow length so there wasnt a full length sleeve on that side.

Also cut out the metal zipper in the front, so she looked like Elvis with the V neck and the collar 

My vet told me to try and keep her off hard surfaces and keep her from knocking it, because her quick-downs on hard floors ends up smacking the elbow alot causing the hygroma's to appear. If there was no improvement after a few months then surgery would have been the course of action, but I saw it go down and after 4 months or so of wearing the sweater it was (and still is now) completely gone.

So I would avoid draining and surgery if that's at all possible and give the time-heals-all-wounds approach.

I feel like I live at the vet's office with 4 dogs :roll:  But always a plus when the solution doesn't involve sharp instruments.


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## Connie Sutherland

Yup, that is the conservative treatment I read a lot of positive stuff about after Mike did it. Nice to have such good first-hand info backing up the patient approach. 


But are we talking about infection here, O.P.?


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## Anna Kasho

No, no infection. It's just a soft, fluid-filled lump about the size of a golf ball. It bothers me more than him, Havoc is completely oblivious to it.

As much as I want it gone NOW, I think I'll give the conservative treatment a try first. I think my vet is pushing surgery because it's more $$$:-( How long before you see improvement, with the padding?? Days, weeks, months?

Jeez, never thought I'd be the kooky owner with a dressed up dog... Ya think he might like some ribbons and bows to match the new sweater?:lol:


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## Connie Sutherland

Anna Kasho said:


> No, no infection. It's just a soft, fluid-filled lump about the size of a golf ball. It bothers me more than him, Havoc is completely oblivious to it.
> 
> As much as I want it gone NOW, I think I'll give the conservative treatment a try first. I think my vet is pushing surgery because it's more $$$:-( How long before you see improvement, with the padding?? Days, weeks, months?
> 
> Jeez, never thought I'd be the kooky owner with a dressed up dog... Ya think he might like some ribbons and bows to match the new sweater?:lol:


A vet pushing surgery when there is no infection or ulceration or draining, etc., would give me pause. When I read up last night, I find clear lines between treatment for "simple" (uninfected) hygroma and "complicated" (infected, draining, recurring, etc.) hygroma.

At the very least, I would get a second opinion. What you were told does not match up with what I read on vet med sites.

Want some links?


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## Mike Schoonbrood

For me I saw improvement in about a month, but after 3 months it just went down rapidly and by 4 months or so it was gone. I left the sweater on for quite some time after that (until it didnt look like a sweater anymore :lol: ) simply because once the hygroma develops, they can come back easily. So I wanted to give it lotsa time to heal up before letting it return with a quick smack against the wall.

Believe me, I know the embarassment that goes along with having a dressed up dog. I'm sure Selena and Johan Dekinder can vouch for my insistance that "the vet made me do it" :lol: :lol: And this one time, I didnt take it off when I walked through my neighborhood, and I got 1/4 mile down the road and went "OH CRAP! I hope nobody saw!!"


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

My GSD pup Havok has one at the same spot. He too eats everything in site and doesn't even know it is there. I haven't taken him to the vet because it shrank to the size of a golf ball (it was bigger before). I decided if it got bad I would take him in but so far so good (I check him several times a day). 

I was told by a friend it is just like the ones that dogs get on their ears and not to worry to much- they take a long time to heal but should be okay.

My vet treated one of my AB's for the ear before and wanted to put in a drain tube. I said no and drained it my self several times over the course of a few weeks. The dog was fine. The ear healed perfectly with no hard scar tissue.

If I put anything on him I am sure he would injest it. He would need a small kennel and a big white plastic collar.


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## Connie Sutherland

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> I was told by a friend it is just like the ones that dogs get on their ears and not to worry to much- they take a long time to heal but should be okay...


I think that your friend was maybe confusing hematoma with hygroma a little ... ?

A hygroma is a fluid-filled bursa; it forms to protect the area from repeated or constant trauma (like a hard surface). An ear hematoma is kinda like that, but it's a pocket filled with blood between the skin and the ear cartilage. The cause is often an infected ear canal, which would also need treatment. Also, hematomas are painful.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

I suppose your right. I knew the ear was painfull. She didn't like me draining it. 

Thanks for setting me straight ](*,) . 

At any rate he doesn't show pain in the elbow when I feel it and is not hot- just like there is some liquid in a ball shaped. 

I will take him to the vet if he gets worse or shows pain.

Thanks Again,

Julie


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## Connie Sutherland

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> I suppose your right. I knew the ear was painfull. She didn't like me draining it.
> 
> Thanks for setting me straight ](*,) .
> 
> At any rate he doesn't show pain in the elbow when I feel it and is not hot- just like there is some liquid in a ball shaped.
> 
> I will take him to the vet if he gets worse or shows pain.
> 
> Thanks Again,
> 
> Julie


It does not usually cause pain. A complicated hygroma causes pain.

I would treat it, and I would do it the way Mike did.

I would not just leave it. You don't want it to ever get to the pain-or-infection stage, because then conservative treatment like padding is not gonna be enough and your choice is lost.


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## Anna Kasho

Connie Sutherland said:


> A vet pushing surgery when there is no infection or ulceration or draining, etc., would give me pause. When I read up last night, I find clear lines between treatment for "simple" (uninfected) hygroma and "complicated" (infected, draining, recurring, etc.) hygroma.
> 
> At the very least, I would get a second opinion. What you were told does not match up with what I read on vet med sites.
> 
> Want some links?


Thanks Connie - yes I would appreciate the links. It is definitely not a "complicated hygroma" not infected or ulcered or draining. Hmmm. I had a feeling surgery was too extreme of a solution in this case... I think Monday I'll call back my vet and question him about conservative treatment, armed with information. I like my vet, I really do, but he does go for the more expensive/invasive side of treatment...


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## Anna Kasho

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Believe me, I know the embarassment that goes along with having a dressed up dog. I'm sure Selena and Johan Dekinder can vouch for my insistance that "the vet made me do it" :lol: :lol: And this one time, I didnt take it off when I walked through my neighborhood, and I got 1/4 mile down the road and went "OH CRAP! I hope nobody saw!!"


Heh, at least here in yuppietown people aren't going to blink twice at a well-dressed dog. If anything we'll get compliments on the design and label - I think a nice chestnut cashmere from DKNY will bring out the highlights in his hair... :lol: 

Serious question, how did you keep your dog from shredding /eating the sweater when you were not around?


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## Matthew Grubb

My work dog got a hygroma last summer….. he was jumping into a crate at a weird angle and slipped back out. On the way out he smacked his right front elbow. Our vet said to leave it alone, pad his crate and car kennel a little better so not to aggravate it, and make a little “sleeve” to wear out of a sweatshirt. 


It’s been almost a year and it’s almost un noticeable now. Our vet said aspirating it almost guarantees infection with work dogs in most cases so he recommended leaving it alone.


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## Kadi Thingvall

Enzo had one of these years ago, it was quite large. Bigger then a golfball, not as big as a baseball. Somewhere in the middle. We left it alone for quite awhile, but it didn't resolve on it's own so we finally drained it. My vet put Enzo on antibiotics since the process of draining it opens it up to exterior bacteria, he never had any problem with infection. I think we only drained it once, maybe twice, it came back but only 1/2 the size it originally did and was able to resolve on it's own after that. I just made sure he had padding in his crate, wrapped his elbow when we worked so he wasn't smacking it, etc.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Anna Kasho said:


> Heh, at least here in yuppietown people aren't going to blink twice at a well-dressed dog. If anything we'll get compliments on the design and label - I think a nice chestnut cashmere from DKNY will bring out the highlights in his hair... :lol:
> 
> Serious question, how did you keep your dog from shredding /eating the sweater when you were not around?


Oddly, she didnt mess with it too much. Not sure why, she shreds everything else you put in her crate, but other than a few holes here and there it was fine. Maybe she thought it looked cool??????


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## Jamielee Nelson

I hate to do any SX's when I dont have too. My vet told me about a ointment you can rub on the area. He also recommended placing the dog on a few other meds. 
But to be honest my vet tends to always place ppl on meds... so I am not totally sure if it would be needed.
I will check with him tomorrow and see what everything is called.


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## Mari Steward

My cane corso has experienced hygromas (false bursitus). My vet has effctively treated this condition and he has not flared up again. She drained the fluid and then shot steriods in the bursa sac. It is caused from sleeping laying on hard surfaces. I used those rubber matts that they ell at sporting good stores and SaMs. They lock together in squares and come in black on one side and colors on the other. depending on the size of the crate you may need one or two squares. 

It is better to have the dog rip up the cushion then to suffer from the fluid sacs. They will grow as big as baseballs if allowed to persist. if you can kennel the pup outside, the soft grass or dirt will be better for the joints. Also, if the dog lays on its side versus his elbows, so putting the dog in a larger crate with more room and a soft surface will help. 

Do not hve surgery that is not asolution tha you want. ifthe bursa sac is removed the dog will have little to no movement movement in the elbow and its working career will be over.


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## Connie Sutherland

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> .... Maybe she thought it looked cool??????


It did! Post a pic here; everyone will be whipping them up for their dogs.

:lol: :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland

Jamielee Nelson said:


> I hate to do any SX's when I dont have too. My vet told me about a ointment you can rub on the area. He also recommended placing the dog on a few other meds.
> But to be honest my vet tends to always place ppl on meds... so I am not totally sure if it would be needed.
> I will check with him tomorrow and see what everything is called.


What meds did he say? If you post them, we'd have a good idea of his diagnosis. Or his need for money.... whichever.

I would pad the area now. Nothing else that you might do precludes that, and that is the advice that runs through every authoritative vet med source, no matter what else they may advise.


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## Anna Kasho

*Update!*

Well, I called my vet back to question him again, and I opted to treat conservatively. Padding, careful excersise, etc. Not going to go for surgery or draining unless there are complications. It's not bothering him, and good news, it even seems to have gone down a little bit! I can't be sure, maybe I've just grown used to seeing it - but it seems to be more like a soft squishy water balloon rather than full round water balloon...

The padding is an adventure  . He is fine with anything as long as I am watching. When he's all alone, he gets, bored I guess. My first try was vetwrap with some padding, which ended up in tiny shreds soon as he had some time to work on it - he's pooped out little colored bits of it too, but otherwise seems ok. Going to do the sweater thing today, will see how that goes. Also changed my routine a bit to teach him to stay (tethered for now) on a dogbed instead of the crate when I am around. He does have a rubber cow mat in his crate for padding, but he shreds anything else. I am scared to give him anything that he might bite chunks off and swallow. Surgery for blockge would not be my idea of a fun time 

I think he must have banged his elbow on something while out playing - never had any of the other dogs develop ANYTHING similar, and they all lay down on the same surfaces, their crates, wood floors, concrete...

p.s. His crate is plenty big enough for him to stretch out, it's made out of an aluminum truck box, 42" x 26" x 26"


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

My Havok's has now shrunk to the size of a large grape. When I first noticed it about 3 weeks ago it was the size of a tangerine.

I haven't done anything. My yard is flooded due to all of the snow melting and he eats/destroys his bedding. Being covered with wet mudd he hasn't been in much lately- he sleeps in a 500 size crate in the garage or his dog house outside for the time being.

If it gets worse I will make one of those very cool shrugs for him and take him to the vet for some steroids and keep him in one of our out door kennels.

I will look for the rubber mats at costco or sams club this week. Thanks for the great idea.

Julie


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## Becky Shilling

I dealt with this in a LARGE Dobie I had. If his weight went over 98# he would get hygromas on his elbows. If he dropped below about 94, he'd get them on his hips!

I would have the elbow ones drained and put on a pressure wrap. Usually I had to smear the wrap with some chloramphenicol liquid (a VILE tasting antibiotic liquid) or bitter apple. 

In his case, as long as I monitored his weight very closely, i avoided the problem. If your dog is carrying any extra weight, even a few pounds can make the difference.


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## Anna Kasho

Can't believe I didn't think of bitter apple #-o Thanks Becky! I'll give that a try too. Cloramphenicol is not available OTC here, I'm pretty sure.

My Havoc is not carrying any extra weight - he'll be pretty good size but he is tall and lean and still growing. He is a klutz sometimes, so I am now thinking his hygroma is from banging his elbow into something... Don't know for sure, though.


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## Jamielee Nelson

Connie Sutherland said:


> What meds did he say? If you post them, we'd have a good idea of his diagnosis. Or his need for money.... whichever.
> 
> I would pad the area now. Nothing else that you might do precludes that, and that is the advice that runs through every authoritative vet med source, no matter what else they may advise.


My vet is away till June 6th but I was able to get the ointment (I think the other meds was just an antibiotic, anti inflamatory and Ill have to wait for the other one): 
Domoso (Dimethyl Sulfoxide gel) -- anyone every used this? I have it at home I thought it would be worth a try on my Golden.


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## Mari Steward

*Re: Update!*



Anna Kasho said:


> Well, I called my vet back to question him again, and I opted to treat conservatively. Padding, careful excersise, etc. Not going to go for surgery or draining unless there are complications. It's not bothering him, and good news, it even seems to have gone down a little bit! I can't be sure, maybe I've just grown used to seeing it - but it seems to be more like a soft squishy water balloon rather than full round water balloon...
> 
> The padding is an adventure  . He is fine with anything as long as I am watching. When he's all alone, he gets, bored I guess. My first try was vetwrap with some padding, which ended up in tiny shreds soon as he had some time to work on it - he's pooped out little colored bits of it too, but otherwise seems ok. Going to do the sweater thing today, will see how that goes. Also changed my routine a bit to teach him to stay (tethered for now) on a dogbed instead of the crate when I am around. He does have a rubber cow mat in his crate for padding, but he shreds anything else. I am scared to give him anything that he might bite chunks off and swallow. Surgery for blockge would not be my idea of a fun time
> 
> I think he must have banged his elbow on something while out playing - never had any of the other dogs develop ANYTHING similar, and they all lay down on the same surfaces, their crates, wood floors, concrete...
> 
> p.s. His crate is plenty big enough for him to stretch out, it's made out of an aluminum truck box, 42" x 26" x 26"


How is your dog's elbow? Has it gotten any better? I do wnat you to know that not all dogs are affected by laying on hard surfaces for long periods of time. My rottie has never had a problem with Hygromas but my corso has had them after laying for extended periods on hard surfaces. My vet has effectly treated them without surgery or infection.


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## Anna Kasho

*Update, and a question?*

Update on the hygroma situation...

Havoc is doing better. After some trial and error, I've got a good handle on the padding and stuff. He wears a sweater around the house, which works OK if he is calm. His "down time" is sweaterless, either in crate or on a tether on a dogbed which he has not thought of chewing yet. When I take him out for exercise - the sweater really did not do enough to protect his hygroma. The first few times it seemed to inflate a bit afterwards. Now I put a vetwrap or pressure bandage on it when I take him out to run, and that works a lot better for support. Sometimes I use a vetwrap or bandage for around the house time too, but to keep him from eating it I've actually resorted to muzzling him. It's a lightweight wire mesh muzzle, and doesn't seem to bother him - he's happy to put his face in it himself, for treats.

So, the hygroma actually has deflated a bit. Good, I guess. What surprised me though is that I can feel some teeny-tiny round "grains" squishing around in there. I mean tiny, less than a millet seed in size each, and not real hard but more like cartilage I guess? Should I be worried enough to take him to the vet for this, or can this be a normal part of it healing, or what? Thoughts?

As before, it doesn't bother him a bit and the only thing he notices about it is when I make him wear that bandage :lol:


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## Maren Bell Jones

*Re: Update, and a question?*



Anna Kasho said:


> So, the hygroma actually has deflated a bit. Good, I guess. What surprised me though is that I can feel some teeny-tiny round "grains" squishing around in there. I mean tiny, less than a millet seed in size each, and not real hard but more like cartilage I guess? Should I be worried enough to take him to the vet for this, or can this be a normal part of it healing, or what? Thoughts?


Are they painful when handled? They're probably either granulomas or fibrosis, which is part of healing. I would probably call the vet to be sure and see if you need to come in, but it's not likely an emergency situation.


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## Anna Kasho

*Re: Update, and a question?*



Maren Bell Jones said:


> Are they painful when handled?


No, not painful. He doesn't seem to care, and believe me, this is not a dog that can hide being uncomfortable. I just didn't expect the beanie-baby feel to the deflating hygroma. It's weird.:?


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## Anna Kasho

Thought I'd post a last, concluding update. The hygroma has deflated completely! Yahoo!\\/ 
It's not a fluid filled lump anymore, but it's not back to the way it was - the elbow is skin, bone, ligaments, and what feels like a lump of scar tissue inside, where the hygroma used to be. Hopefully that will stretch out and disappear in time. Doesn't limit his range of motion, and doesn't affect his gait, so everythings fine.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Excellent Anna!

What was the course of action that you took?


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## Anna Kasho

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Excellent Anna!
> 
> What was the course of action that you took?


To sum it up, just padding in several ways and waiting it out. And creative ways to keep him from ripping off the padding.


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## Jamielee Nelson

Everyone has been saying they wrapped their dogs leg... My golden Still has hers on her RF elbow. We had to drain it yesterday at the vet bc it had gotten SO big!
I asked the vet if I should wrap it and he said there was no point to wrapping that it wouldnt really do anything.... but it seems like everyone else here has been wrapping and it looks to have helped.

Anyone tried these? http://handicappedpets.com/acc/leggings/ 

I cant get her to sleep on her doggie bed to save my life... she just loves the wood floors... but they dont love her!


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## Connie Sutherland

Jamielee Nelson said:


> I asked the vet if I should wrap it and he said there was no point to wrapping that it wouldnt really do anything.... but it seems like everyone else here has been wrapping and it looks to have helped. ...


Did he understand that you meant *padding* it?

I don't think I have seen any sources that did not recommend keeping it off of the hard floor. Whether it's padding it on the dog or providing bedding (if the dog will use it), it's still putting something soft between it and the floor.


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## Jamielee Nelson

Connie Sutherland said:


> Did he understand that you meant *padding* it?
> 
> I don't think I have seen any sources that did not recommend keeping it off of the hard floor. Whether it's padding it on the dog or providing bedding (if the dog will use it), it's still putting something soft between it and the floor.


I said "should I wrap it"... maybe I could have worded that better 8-[ 

Ill start doing it tonight hopfully it helps


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## Anna Kasho

Jamielee Nelson said:


> I asked the vet if I should wrap it and he said there was no point to wrapping that it wouldnt really do anything.... but it seems like everyone else here has been wrapping and it looks to have helped.


 
I didn't ask my vet. I read up, and told him I'm trying the padding before draining or surgery :smile: 

Padding helped while Havoc was low-activity, resting, walking around the house. When I exercised him the padding didn't stop the hygroma from moving and bouncing, which I worried was too much - all that jolting around couldn't be helping, right? So for exercise I put a pressure bandage on it with vet wrap. Kinda like a sports bra, LOL. It had to come off immediately afterwards though, because if left on for more than an hour or so, the leg lower than the bandage would start to swell.

The bed thing was the easiest to solve. I tethered him on a pretty short chain so he had no choice but to lay on his bed. He got used to it over time.


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## Connie Sutherland

Jamielee Nelson said:


> I said "should I wrap it"... maybe I could have worded that better ...



That's what I was thinking. He might easily have thought that "wrap" meant ace bandage wrapping.


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## Jamielee Nelson

Anna Kasho said:


> I didn't ask my vet. I read up, and told him I'm trying the padding before draining or surgery :smile:
> 
> The bed thing was the easiest to solve. I tethered him on a pretty short chain so he had no choice but to lay on his bed. He got used to it over time.


I might start to tie her to my bed then-good idea! ... I have an AWSOME large bed-thing for them it's for dogs with dyplasia so it has all kinda of padding (Ive slept on it b4 feels better then my bed!).


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## Jamielee Nelson

I went to the local CVS since I had to buy epson salt and I picked up two packets of the makeup wedges









Since they are precut into triangles but not cut all the way through they mold to her elbow very easy and they are super thick! I just used some athletic wrap to keep it in place 
At 2 bucks a sheet its hard to go wrong there


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