# Beauceron?



## symeon kazanas (Jul 3, 2006)

Does anyone have any firsthand info on this breed?
Saw one the other day, and chatted with the dog's owner. While we were talking, the dog pretty much displayed the classic aloofness-confidence of a good GSD.

This dog was a pet, so I'm mainly interested in any working ability that this breed might have, if it does.

Thanks, SK


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I realize this is an old post, but thought I'd bump it up to see if we could generate any kind of discussion. I've been drawn to Beaucerons for a while now, and I'm actually entertaining the thought of getting one ...... maybe.


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## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

they don't really look like their own breed of dog to me. they look like a rotti shepherd mix with cropped ears


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## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

they look like a rotti shepherd mix with cropped ears.. oops I reposted


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

They look like a Rottie lab if their ears are left uncropped, and they kind of look like a cattle dog mix if they have the harlequin coat pattern and cropped ears! :lol: I'm with you; they do look like a mixed breed, but I think they're kind of neat. They're just very rare in this country, I believe.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Debbie and Ron Skinner have some very nice working Beauceron's. Debbie is a WDF member.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Kristen, I think they're becoming rare everywhere. I had a Briard, forunately a very good one. Typical of his breed but with outstanding drive. He was very neutral to other dogs outside his territory, people didn't interest him but he had an "unhealthy" attitude to cattle, horses, in fact everything that wasn't canine. It wasn't too difficult to check but it need monitoring from time to time!

I would not buy a Briard or a Beauceron again. The Beauceron "looked" the part with "pricked ears" but there are very few that make the grade to Schutzhund. Due to their athletic body, they could be used in SAR, etc. but here, I've not seen many actively engaged. The Briards are seldom too nowadays. They don't like going to anyone, let alone a helper.

Sorry to be so negative but, for the very few that make it, there are dozens that don't - whatever sport.

I made it to IPO 3 with my Briard but he was the only one in the country who was also "clear in the head".

Obedience, for Agility, in my mind he's too large. For SAR he c o u l d be good. Bear in mind that these Clubs, Briards and Beaucerons are not often interested lin working the dog which means they don't place too much emphasis on gait, HD??, etc.

On the other hand, a good Briard, a good Beauceron, is something else, I can tell you. They are usually quiet in the house but nutters outside. Where to get one is the $1000 question.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I like the breed, probably because my old dog looked like she could have been part Beaceron, but more likely was a Rotti mix. 

The last security guard company I worked for had a couple of Beaucerons that I worked a few times. Nice dogs, the bitch was grossly overweight and pretty mellow, the male dog was fun. Goofy, happy, probably pretty nice drive, though I never saw him worked in protection. 

The company also had Dobe X Beaucerons. A couple of them I liked a lot, though some were pretty spooky and useless as a protection dog.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

> Where to get one is the $1000 question.


Yes, it is. Just about every breeder's website that I've seen so far claims that they both show and participate in some sort of work with their dogs (SchH & French Ring being the most popular activities). Are you saying that the dogs might_ not _do so well?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I owned a Beacueron many years ago for awhile, he was an interesting dog but not really my kind of dog. I've followed the breed since then, and seen quite a few over the years. Some are good, a few are very good, the majority I wouldn't want to have as a serious working dog. Maybe play around with, but that's about. But I think it's like any "off" breed. You can find some really nice ones, just be ready to sort through a lot of less then nice ones in the process.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You could always look for a AB to do ring while you are looking. LOL SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTERS. LOL


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Kristen, I don't think the breed club themselves do very much to promote the working Beauceron.

We had a breeder in Switzerland that produced good Beaucerons but in all honesty, I would not recommend you to get one if you are thinking of doing Schutzhund. 

I like the Beaucerons - I loved my Briard (similar) but there's no backup (Clubs) behind them like with the Mali's and GSD's.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Maybe I'll just get one to show in AKC. :razz:


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Maybe I'll just get one to show in AKC. :razz:


That's where they are going (AKC) after starring in Disney's Hotel for Dog's :roll: ... it'll be a short trip down working dog memory lane in 5 years or less once the conformists get their hands in the limited Beaceron genetic pool. 

Here is a series of clips from the French Ring Coupe in 2006 @ 4:04, 4:48 and @ 6:49 there is a Beauceron .. Nice work on the Attaque D'Efface but not so good on the DOH. Oh well can't win 'em all. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_7JQT6lcys


It is a fun video some wickedly good work from both all the dogs and all the decoys. :mrgreen:


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

I saw one that belonged to a service dog trainer. The dog was trained as a service dog for the handicapped. Very smart dog I was impressed with his desire to work for the trainer and try to find the solution to the exercise on his own. Maybe it was just a good trainer but I did see something in the dog I've never seen before, very focused but not in a drivey way. Big dog with big mouth and good dentition. Has potential to be a man stopper with that size and agility. That particular dog didn't display a lot of strength of character to face a human adversary but it wasn't raised or bred for that I think. I see the dog as having a GSD type character as far as willingness to please but with an edge due to the size. Not sure why the double dew claws in the rear are necessary.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

http://www.bergerbeauce.ch/schutzdienst.html

It's a great pity because the Beauceron is very agile and well built. A lot of herder clubs are against their breed doing Schutzhund. I think they're pretty easy to train as they love to work, like the Briard.
I think they're pretty calm dogs although the guy who owned my Briard's father had a Beauceron who turned on him savagely but then this was at a time when some tried to make their dogs "meaner" by all sorts of methods.

According to comments I've read, they could be used for Avalanche, SAR, Disaster, etc. When it comes to Schutzhund they say it needs an experienced and patient helper (in clear text that would mean for me that it would be a lot of work with no guarantee that it would work).

The double dew claws is a faible of the French have for some of their breeds and stories say it's so they can balance on the back of sheep......


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

It looks the part though:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xagyk_beauceron_animals


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I've had owned/bred/imported many Beaucerons over the last 20 years. It is breed where most breeders in the States and Europe focus on Beauty now, but there are a few working bloodlines left. When you own a good one working Beauce, it can be a very good working dog and ranch dog/companion. I have owned many good working Beaucerons over the years...not as many as I've owned Malinois of course. A working Beauce needs a firm hand not unlike a good malinois, but many exceed 100lbs. The problem is as some have mentioned is to find the good working Beaucerons. Also, the breed is slower to mature than the Maliinois which makes puppy selection more difficult. 

I breed both the Beauceron and Malinois for work and call the Beauceron 'my project' and the Mals keep me sane in both breeding and working. For now, in the States one can show the working lines and I've had good success showing of our males (#1 Beauce 2008 and 2009 Westminster Winner). This particular dog is a trained assistance dog and not a sport dog. The breed has only been recognized by the AKC since last year. I put this particular dog on the circuit as I was tired of the "reverse-j" tailed show dogs that were out there and wanted to show people a "normal" tempered dog. I've mentioned to many that if you don't want to then start docking their tails so I don't have to look at the tail tucking...I speak this about many breeds, not just the Beauce. 

In addition to the numbers being reduced during the world war and the "beauty" breeders influence, harm has been done to the Beauceron and other cropped and/or docked breeds in Europe due to the outlawing of such. There is a significant difference in expression between a properly cropped dog and a natural or as I call them "floppy" one.

I'm a constant advocate for breeding for temperament. To breed the Beauceron, you must actually create more of your own working stock and truely practice sensible line-breeding and evaluations. It's not an easy breed to breed like walking into generations upon generations of working mals or gsds and then breeding and saying "voila" look what I've produced. As I mentioned before, the Malinois keep sane with their "instant gratification" when breeding and working them. However, to take to task a breed like the Beauceron, which is in need of help is something I have enjoyed doing and feel a difference can be made by many small breeding programs across the globe working separately, but also sharing in stock and experiences. I'll never say it's easy..but, then again "why do it easy, if you can do it hard!" :razz:

I believe the breed is a worthy project and my favorite handful of past dogs owned include mostly Beaucerons.

Tim Welch has a male "Avatar" from us that is an extremely good French ring dog. Soon to be French Ring III. He has done well with him and the dog has a lot of heart and drive like his sire, grandsire, great-grandsire.

I have to laugh when people say they look like a mix as back 20 years ago that's all I heard about the malinois too! :razz: It's natural to call a breed one isn't familiar with a mix between similar breeds that are known. Actually the Beauceron is one of the breed used in the creation of the Dobermann. The Beauce is no more diverse in type than the GSD or Malinois, it's just that Americans are not yet used to looking at them. The merle color (not my favorite) is behind the Catahoula Leopard Dog. The Berger de Beauce (Beauceron) or Bas Rouge..all names used for the same breed dates back before the renaissance (around 1578). 

Well, there's a little bit about Beaucerons and I am always happy to talk or meet people interested in the breed. We will be at the Del Mar Fairgrounds, CA (Silver Bay Dog Show) this weekend..Yes, a beauty show as my male "Leo" with his handler Perry Payson will be showing and I'll be showing a couple youngsters and bringing a couple malinois pups along just for fun and socializing.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Debbie, has anyone tried outcrossing the Beauceron to the Malinois to help the working drive and keep the gene pool healthy with such a small population? Wouldn't surprise me if they had similar lines way back...


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## Jeanine Daugherty (Feb 18, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Debbie and Ron Skinner have some very nice working Beauceron's. Debbie is a WDF member.


I agree, I met one of their bitches about 10 years ago and would have taken her in a New York minute had her owner been willing to give her up. That bitch was drivy and willing and energetic as well as very pretty (although I don't like the multiple dew claws personally!).


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## Jenny Thorp (Nov 8, 2008)

I have a Beauceron.
FUN & smart dog.
Boundless energy.
Although my experience is limited to just one example of the breed I will definately look for another in the future. One with a more serious working background.
I did not find a SchH group in my area until she was 2yrs old. So I am a complete novice in that working area. She does not have the stuff to be a real SchH competitor but she is having fun and the group I train with is being wonderful about helping me learn handling skills. They think she'll get a SchH1 but it'll take a lot of work. Tracking and obedience is going well, the gripwork is not so hot. 
Our main competition area is agility. She is awesome there :mrgreen: 
So I will continue SchH and learn while having fun with her. 
My next Beauceron will be sought with the goal of a more serious sportwork future .


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

It's been tried in Europe, as you can see Beauceron/Malinois mixes advertised as oops litters over there in the newspaper and online free ads and in shelters. The photos I've seen are sable like a malinois. I don't know how one would do it and have success quickly i.e get a bi-color black/rust dog and double dews. The problem is that the breed standard is very strict requiring double dew-claws on each hind leg. Maybe if one used a black malinois? I've talked to many French breeders that the cross Mal/Beauce doesn't work. Maybe that means it takes many genrations..not sure. It is possible to "titre initial" dogs in France so it's not forbidden to register such a mix, but it must excell and look like a Beauceron.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I have seen a few malinois that are black and tan (bicolor?), like doberman coloring... Just sayin'...8-[


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Ditto what Anna says. I helped raise a Mal pup that was distinctly bi-color.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Plus my Mal/GSD cross has double dew claws. The genes are floating out around there somewhere...










Has anyone ever had any problems with them being snagged? I was surprised to find I never have known him to injure them doing agility or running through fields and whatnot.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

I know a lady who has a Beauceron that is a FEMA disaster search dog. All that running around on the rubble and, to my knowledge, the dog has never snagged a dew claw. Granted, she's not the fastest, driviest dog out there, but she's still on the rubble.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Don't working dogs pretty much all get their rear dew claws removed (whether single or double)?
 :-k 
That's been my understanding with all the normal-toed breeds, and also with flock guardians and the guardian-ish herders born with double dew claws (beauce and briard). Interesting thread and breed.

Really interesting about your GSD/Mali, Maren. And you know your dog's parents were definately those two breeds?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Chad, German shepherd without question in the head and Malinois for size, color, and build (he's within a pound or two of my purebred Mal and same exact height). He's a shelter dog, so God knows for sure, but that's my best guess. But of all the breeds with double dew claws (Briards, Great Pyrenees, Beauceron), it's pretty clear he's definitely not one of those. I can post photos if you like and there are a few on my gallery, though I'm rehoming him within the next week or two for a number of reasons (mostly because he needs to be an only dog), so it's kind of a moot point....


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I've never had a problem with them being snagged and the dogs go out in thick brush with me when I'm riding in the hills here. Never a problem on the palisade either. They are almost like extra toes and very thick unlike the dews that are routinely clipped from Rottie or Mal litters if they show up.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

When I visited Bart Bellon his Zodt son was bi-colored. I have a Zodt daugther..hmmm! LOL


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

In the Briard and Beauceron standard it is specified that they have to have double claws on the inner side of their hind legs. If you don't want to show the dog, you can have them removed as with other breeds.
They make the rear paws look enormous.

Funnily enough, it wasn't the rear claws that caused my Briard problems but the front ones. He ripped one out and I had to take him to the vets but the same one kept causing problems so I kept it short and had no more trouble.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Actually if you don't want to breed the dog you can remove them. In America you can get away with removing them, but it's a DQ and in Europe you will never get your breeding papers w/o them.


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

I must say a cropped beauceron is looking very good, the natural version looks a bit like cross between a rottweiler and a dobe. Found some films from a beauceron in a charactertest and one from a protectionseminar with the swedish beauceronclub,
http://www.blackpowders.com/filmer/MTZenta.mpg

http://www.grandlutin.com/lagerGBG.mpg


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

I've always been interested in the breed but I have never had the opportunity to work one.


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## xxxxxxxxKarina Scuckyte (Oct 27, 2008)

Today a beauceron was left in our local shelter. Volunteers called me for help, they can't get her out of the crate, she's attacking everyone who gets near. I will go there tomorrow, see what can be done. The dog is 2 years old, without any papers. The owner gave her up because the dog attacked her 12 year old doughter many times. They tried to do something, but nothing helped. I found out that the dog is possibly defending her food. Maybe you have some suggestions what I could do with such dog?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

What Shelter? You must first evaluate the dog to know what is actually going on. If the dog is in SoCal I can drive over and evaluate the dog. If it's somewhere else, I can try to send a trainer to see her.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I just read your profile...you are too far away for me to help...Lithuania, Vilnius


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## xxxxxxxxKarina Scuckyte (Oct 27, 2008)

Yes, I'm really far away. They don't know any trainer that could evaluate the dog, that's why they called me. I'm the only one that has some experience with agressive dogs. Well, to be honest I don't think that this dog will find a new home.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Well, if it's not a stable dog then it shouldn't. Hard to know as many dogs can be aggressive in a crate or kennel with strangers. Someone that knows would need to check her out to know if she's fearful, tough, possessive, wacko or what. Sad story. You can always get her out of the crate by opening it into a kennel and then using a kennel noose to catch the dog later if it is dangerous. Once in a larger area like a kennel, a trainer could determine the character of the dog.


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