# influence of current adults on puppy



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

let me start by saying that i may, or may not, be getting a pup yet this year. but even if it's next year, i still have the same question.

Gracie, the GSD bitch i adopted (she's now 5 yrs old) this summer, is scared to DEATH of thunder. normally she will NOT get on the furniture, but if she hears the faintest rumble, she's either on the couch if someone's sitting on it or heading for the nearest open closet. i have never had a dog (maybe i'm just lucky w/all the rescue/shelter dogs i've had) who's afraid of thunder--and she's really no problem; even if we're not here, she isn't destructive, she just hides.

with all that said, if/when i get a pup--will s/he pick up on Gracie's fear? pups do learn so much from any adult dogs they're raised with, both good and bad. actually, i find a well-trained adult a useful tool for shaping pup's behavior. but anyway, the pup will be crated with limited interactions w/the big dogs--but should i be concerned about Gracie, IDK, "channeling" her fear to a youngster?

if so, what can i do to at least minimize, at best negate, any effect she may have on the pup?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Ann I see this an a possible learned behavior... The fear my female BC has and the reason I moved my Bouvier puppy to the other end of the kennel. I don't want the squirrel dog screwing it up!


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

I think if your pup has good nerves it won't matter. My 6 yr old male is scared of thunder too. My working pup though could care less about any loud noise, and he sees my older dog head for the hills anytime there is a storm, or loud wind for that matter:-o


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

There is ample evidence to demonstrate that kids never pay attention to the adults in their life. :mrgreen: So, no, you have nothing to worry about.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

So why do we use older dogs/Labs to imprint skills to the younger ones? Geese imprint behaviors, adults imprint behaviors, too much evidence to support that statement!


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

I would think that the pup might learn to head for the closet when there's thunder. The pup might not know why they're sitting in the closet, but the pup will learn the behavior.

I had two dogs who flat out do not have SA learn to exhibit separation anxiety behaviors while being influenced by a _younger_ SA dog. When that dog was gone, the non-SA dogs stopped behaving like that.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I would get rid of the bitch and keep the pup.......but thats just me.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I would get rid of the bitch and keep the pup.......but thats just me.


No doubt you would Jeff. But Ann has a soul and I'm sure she'll keep that dog. :mrgreen: 

I'm just messing with ya Jeff! 

Ann, for what it's worth I think the pup can definitely learn and be influenced, both good and bad, by the behavior of your older dog. You might consider removing the pup in instances where the behavior is undesirable and, when the behavior is desirable, keep the pup present.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I would get rid of the bitch and keep the pup.......but thats just me.



Hee hee...

Ann, 
I would say that it is a learned behavior as well and you can limit the amount of time the pup spends with the female in order for you to be the one the pup looks to for confidence and what behaviors will be tolerated. 

I have never had an issue of a pup learning a negative behavior since my dogs get limited, supervised time together. 

I would agree that it will also depend on the nerve and temperament of the new addition. Which is why it is important to use the "selection" testing process.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Patrick Murray said:


> There is ample evidence to demonstrate that kids never pay attention to the adults in their life. :mrgreen: So, no, you have nothing to worry about.


boy, ain't THAT the truth!! haha. i think....

well, getting rid of the bitch isn't an option--i RESCUED her for god's sake, so she's stuck with me for the rest of her natural life.

so basically, in order to prevent the pup fr learning the behavior, keep the 2 separate (which they will be anyway if i'm not here--i love crates), and if i AM here and the pup happens to be out of it's crate, act like "no big deal", Gracie can go to her closet, but pup stays w/me. i don't trust pups out of my eyesight anyway.

here's another thing i've been thinking would be a good idea all the way around for a new pup: my (one and only close) neighbor raises English Setters for huunting, and he's always down there shooting shotguns. which we can hear up here, and which don't affect Gracie as badly as thunder, but she doesn't like it. so i could condition the pup to that noise quite early (at what age should i start taking him down there?), without Gracie having an influence on his reaction. 

it seems to me that conditioning the pup that way will bleed over to thunderstorms and minimize or eliminate any influence Gracie may have. thoughts?


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I am not sure how everyone else does it, but all my dogs are okay with gunfire....well, Ember tries to eat me when she hears it....

Usually what happens here is I have Doug go down to the south end of the property (we have 80 acres) and fire off a few rounds, we start small .38 and work our way up as the dog warrants. 

Any standing alert and curious, ignoring the noise and staying focused on playing or forward progression to go check out the sound is rewarded. 
As the pups gain more confidence we move closer to Doug.

Might not be the right way, but it is what works for us.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

carol--Em tries to eat everything anyway, doesn't she?  that's the method i was thinking of: just work our way closer to the sound; we would start 1/4 mi away, and as the pup shows no fear, work our way closer. but how fast do you go toward the sound? i know it'll depend on the pup, but do you take a week to get close? 2 weeks? or is it just one of those pup temperment-dependent things (which i'm kinda sure it is).

have any snow up your way yet?


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Yes, Em tries to eat everything, but she is much better about thinking first now. ha ha

It really depends on the pups. The Labs usually are next to Doug within a week a week or two, calm and waiting to go after the ball when the shotgun fires off.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I wonder if you could teach Gracie a place command so at least if there is a storm, you are the one sending her the crate, the closet, whatever? Melatonin can be a help for thunderstorm phobias, or so I hear. PM me if you'd like the dose I've read can be helpful.

And Jeff, I had to jump through like 20 zillion hoops to get that dog pulled for Ann, so she better not be coming back! :razz: How much does she weigh now, Ann?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

maren, i don't have an official recent weight on her at the moment (she and Zeus will be taking a vet-trip next week and i'll get one), but i'm thinking she's around 95-100#. heck, she's blown at least 5# of undercoat in the last 3 weeks, so let's say 95


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Carol not everyone can go out and give their dog a flesh wound...Is this called capping?:twisted: :mrgreen:


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Carol not everyone can go out and give their dog a flesh wound...Is this called capping?:twisted: :mrgreen:


Okay....I am having a moment and don't get it????    :mrgreen:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Carol, which dog is em ???


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Carol, which dog is em ???


My Kaiserhaus Mal bitch. She is almost a year old now.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i also didn't follow howard's thought....


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

ann freier said:


> i also didn't follow howard's thought....


He is giving me a hard time....maybe about my aim????:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Pm me with more about her. I have some nutty questions I would like to ask, or call on the bat phone, 210 781 2480


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Carol you said something about a .38? [-X


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Carol you said something about a .38? [-X


Yes, we start there, and then work up with handguns, rifles and shotguns.....


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I start mine out small and work our way up. Neither of my dogs have fear towards sound! We go to the firework shows and they go too. No problems....guns...a cinch.....If there is one thing I can't stand it's a noise sensitive dog. 

I work my butt off to ensure that mine won't be leary. If they have never had a bad expierience it helps and if they are solid on nerves it really helps!!!!! 

Courtney


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