# LE PSD and SAR K9 acquisition



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i've started a project that is outside my normal scope of work so i won't be posting much. That will be welcome news to some of you //lol//

I need to know the cost range and some procurement details for a green K9 for SAR or PSD work.
* note....I don't want info on a dog who was trained or perviously certified for PSD or SAR work. * 

I'm inquiring about a GREEN dog, and only for a police/sheriff dept or certified SAR association; not a dog for a govt, or federal agency, or private firm, etc. And i don't want to get hung up with definitions of green. Just state how "green" it was in your replies 

Part 1 
Specific Q's for LEO's, LEO K9 handlers, or breeders/vendors who have sold to PD's directly. More info would be appreciated, but these are the minimums :

1. What was the price for the last 2 dogs your department bought, or, as a breeder/vendor, the dogs you sold ?
(a) State the breed, age, and level of training the dog came to the PD with
(b) State what the dogs were certified for, and if they are currently working, or did not make the cut. If rejected, what happened to the dogs ?
(c) If the dog was donated, provide the background


2. Sources. Did the dog come from an established breeder, vender or private source ? ("established" means they have sold dogs to PD's or SAR groups before and have dogs who are currently working
(a) what specific paperwork came/went with the dog ?
(b) what specific health checks were provided or done before purchase and who paid ? (either on the seller or the buyer side)
(c) provide names or a P.O.C. for the sources

3. re: Training. Was the dog advertised up front (prior to transfer) as single, dual purpose, or already odor trained, etc ?
(a) Plse explain if your PD or SAR group trains in house or uses additional outside training assistance prior to cert testing.

Part 2: my Q's for SAR K9's are essentially the same as for a PSD

I would very much prefer the info be provided openly on this forum, but if you feel it has to be private, PM the info and state why you think it needs to be sent that way. I won't disclose any names or agencies sent in a PM, but if members would want, I might repost generic info since i don't consider that anything above requires privacy unless you explain a reason I hadn't considered before  

TIA


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Libby:
Free, 
Dutch/mal mix 6 month old PD reject with no ball drive.
Green, only tested for ball drive (zero when I got her).
I was asked to find her a pet home ( officer that had her said she was too crazy to be a pet)
Now certified HRD. (Wilson county SO, & NCK9)
No health certs, no papers, from local SO breeding Ricky Wade.
We do our own training.

Greta:
$400,
Malinois, 12 weeks, advertised as possible work prospect.
Certified trailing & tracking, HRD (NAPWDA, AWDA, NCk9, USAR, & Wilson co SO)
No health certs, vaccination record provided.
LE breeder, Mark Smith.

Fenna:
$650,
Malinois, 10 weeks, sold as work prospect
No health certs, vaccination record provided
Aaron Rice breeder
Not yet certified, pup is 5 months old


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Unit does all in-house training with additional exposure through selected seminars or workshops.
Most people start with the dogs they currently own. If they stick with it, the next dogs are selected with SAR in mind.

Sam: German Shorthaired Pointer
$600
8 weeks old, litter advertised as hunting prospects
Certified trailing, articles, area search, HRD through two or more of the following: NAPWDA, VPWDA, LETS, VK9
No health certs, vaccination record provided
NAVHDA backyard breeding

Gus: Deutsch Kurzhaar registered
$1,500
8 weeks, litter advertised as hunting prospects
Health cert and vaccination record provided, one year guarantee against genetic defaults
Jorg Kaltenegger, breeder
no certs, puppy is 4 months old.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Unit does in house training and consults with NAPWDA trainer available weekly. Also seminars and bringing in specialty trainers for in-house team only training.

Grim-GSD-Green Dog $2000 as two year old with x-rays and health certs. - more like a lab-not good dual purpose prospect for aggression work. Was 2.5 in 2006 when purchased.
-First HRD dog, certification delays not due to dog
-AKC Full registration
-30 Day unlimited warranty
- raining in house and seminars
- ertified NAPWDA HRD 2008-2012, IPWDA 2009. Death Cancer 2012.
-Basic obedience, Indication on black powder and pseudo (extinguished the black powder)

Beau-bought as 10 week old puppy Oct 2011 
-AKC Full registration
-Health Cert Vaccination
-No training
-Full refund on genetic defects up to 2 years
-Training in house, with LE (NAPWDA) and Seminars
-NAPWDA Cert HRD Oct 2012 to current. (annual)


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## Jason Demo (Apr 23, 2013)

I'll answer your LEO dog question first, hopefully this helps. I'm a full time LEO, but I am not a LEO K9 handler. I purchased my GSD for personal protection from a trainer in South Florida. He basically was around the level of a Brevet in French Ring. On and off leash obedience, well socialized, solid bites and outs, good nerves etc. I purchased him for $2,200. The trainer was actually trying to sell him to an agency and he had passed to LEO tests at different agencies. I just snagged him up before anyone else did. 

I am a K9 handler for my local SAR team. I use the above dog for that. I started area search training in December 2013 with him and he was completely green in that aspect. I certified him in NOCSAR area search 7 weeks later and NAPWDA area search 6 weeks after that. I was extremely dedicated to training but my GSD is very high drive and he was bred to be a working dog. Most of the K9 handlers on my SAR team rescued their dogs. They just went out and found a high drive dog somewhere and started training. 

In my opinion you don't need to pay for a SAR dog (outside of an adoption fee) if you are an experienced handler and know what you are looking for in a dog. There's no need to get one that is already trained if you have the time and dedication to train one on your own. 

I hope this helps you some...


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## Jason Demo (Apr 23, 2013)

Jason Demo said:


> I'll answer your LEO dog question first, hopefully this helps. I'm a full time LEO, but I am not a LEO K9 handler. I purchased my GSD for personal protection from a trainer in South Florida. He basically was around the level of a Brevet in French Ring. On and off leash obedience, well socialized, solid bites and outs, good nerves etc. I purchased him for $2,200. The trainer was actually trying to sell him to an agency and he had passed to LEO tests at different agencies. I just snagged him up before anyone else did.
> 
> I am a K9 handler for my local SAR team. I use the above dog for that. I started area search training in December 2013 with him and he was completely green in that aspect. I certified him in NOCSAR area search 7 weeks later and NAPWDA area search 6 weeks after that. I was extremely dedicated to training but my GSD is very high drive and he was bred to be a working dog. Most of the K9 handlers on my SAR team rescued their dogs. They just went out and found a high drive dog somewhere and started training.
> 
> ...


I forgot to say my GSD was 18 months when I got him and I started the SAR work a couple months after he turned 2.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

>36 day thread, but here is a short update anyway ....

Disappointed but not completely surprised at the lack of responses to my thread. Thought there were many members here who fit the categories I listed and were qualified to answer. Bad assumption on my part 

The back story is I received some extra funds as a result of helping a working dog and I decided to "give back" to the community and buy one and donate it. The only string attached is that I be kept informed (once or twice a year emails w/ a pic or two) of how the dog performs. I set aside 5K (USD) so I know that will buy a decent (health tested, environmentally solid with tested drives) K9 that can get certified and start working. And I want the (green) dog to go to an outfit that has proven in-house training capability so that the handler who gets it will be the one training it since i'm not a fan of turnkey training.

Japan PD's don't need PSD donations (they are well budgeted), and Uncle Sam and the Feds also have deep pockets and don't need freebies either, so I was intending to give it to a stateside PD, and that would probably mean I would never be able to see the dog in person and would have to buy "remote" from here. Therefore I need to get it from an established breeder with a proven track record who had sold b4 rather than risk an "experiment" that might wash since if for any reason the dog got injured and couldn't work, i'd also be willing to pay to have it sent back to me here. So health testing is important to me. But my preference is still for it to go to an outfit capable of doing their own training.
- I know there are lots of high volume vendors with lots of "extreme, high drive" kenneled dogs ready to roll out the door for the right price, but I don't want to go that route just yet. My main concern is that people who get a dog for free often treat it like it was worth that same amount, and obviously I don't want that to happen :-(

Had one contact started that seemed like it might work, but they said that even if I bought/donated the PSD, the PD could not promise they would give me any updates on how the K9 was doing. I took that as being lazy and eventually crossed them off the list, since I don't think that should be too hard to do. Aside from that ... nothing from the PSD related crowd and no PM responses either. Looks like like a dead end thread, but if anyone has an interest in how it turns out, PM me and i'll keep in touch with you


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