# mysterious lameness!! guesses anyone???



## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

Hello,

Well let's start at the beginning, maybe one of you had something similar and has an idea what it is.

about 8 weeks ago, I was doing Obedience with one of my dogs. I had he in the basic position and had thrown the dumbell. As I sent her to retrieve it, she let out a sharp yelp as she shot out of her basic position to retrieve the dumbell, held her left hind up for a few paces, but never slowed down und kept going full boar towards the dumbell, retrieved it and by then no limp anymore. I checked the paws,pads legs- nothing. Trotted her, no limp no nothing. so we went on and i sent her over the wall. as she jumped up again, sharp yelp, left hind leg up- but no reduction of speed and she wanted to conitnue with the excersize, had to stop her physically from going over the wall again.
again i trotted her felt over her , no slight limp no pain response.
I had her checked over a couple days later, no reaction to any feeling,palpitation, twisiting, bending strectching of her whole body. No swellings no heat spots.
During the next two weeks the only thing she refrained from by herself was jumping. I have to say though that is was just reduced, not completly avoided. she still jumped onto her "porch" to nap on, she still jumped up on me (i tried to stop her from it nad for a while she obeyed)
but other than that you could not see anything different.
After 4 weeks she happily jumped back into the vehicle again. If you looked closely you could see in full speed she keeps the hind legs a little closer together and prefers right turns.
She is now back to work, I am building her up slowly and see what happens.

Now a friend of mine has the same problem, for about a week now. This dog though seems to be a little more sensitive and she complains more often. she complains when she is jumping into the vehicle, and sometimes when she is getting up from a down or sit. seems to slightly avoid putting weight on the left hind - occationally!! She trotts fine, just had been to the Vet. Twisting, stretching, bending- nothing!!!

For both dogs, if you do not know there is something wrong, you would not see it!!
Anybody has any ideas what this could be?


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

there was an Xllnt vid here awhile back on how to do a physical exam to check basic range of motion for sled dogs...if whoever posted it reads this will repost the link it sure wouldn't hurt to at least go thru that with the dog

if i remember correctly, the vid clip was a vet who takes care of sled dogs
taught me a LOT and really helpful for me ... would be worth practicing regardless of what breed you work with

too busy to dig it up myself; sorry

of course u know to shoot the leg to rule out a small bone chip or something else that may not present on a consistent basis, etc


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Rick, not sure if this one was it, but I had this saved, so I obviously saw it before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yihpOUnJ9ww&feature=plcp


----------



## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

Have you checkt the spine? Culd be spondylos.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

That's the one Joby ! Tx for posting
i will keep it this time 
so Kat....have you watched it yet or would you like to hear of all the other similar stuff that has happened to OPD's ??

imo everyone should learn how to go thru their dog from end to end like this guy so clearly demos...whether they (dogs) need it or not  make it a habit and than you could prob give your dog a more thorough physical check than some vets i've been to 
...in fact i have taken in many dogs to get the basic exam and NONE of them have ever been as thorough as this guy !


----------



## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

she got recently x rayed, there is nothing on the spine...

Awsome video, i have to say!!! Thanks for posting.
Our examination went far beyond that, though :mrgreen: -minus the head twisting...
Because we were so at a loss, we even did typical examinations one usually does with horses...
hold for two minutes, trott out circles left circles right... you name it we did it...

I wasn't at the other dogs examination-was a different Vet then mine,too. buts he described the examination it as "strecharm strong" twisting... so I have to think that was one along what the video represented.... 

would be great if he has something for the back,too. just in case we missed something.


----------



## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Couple more things to consider. Have you tried a tail head jack? GSDs can get lumbosacral stenosis which can make them have difficulty jumping as the first initial sign. Take the tail and hike it up curling it over the back. This will cause pain in the case of stenosis. Other issue would be what I had to deal with in my dog...which was an iliopsoas injury. Many vets will not know to look for it nor know how to diagnosis this injury. There are a lot of online articles that you can find regarding this injury.


----------



## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

Thanks for that info, i will double check for it. don't think it might be doing any good for mine, since she seems to have recovered. Plus she carries it very high for a GSD... so i don't think there is anything there. but I will check for the other again.

but my friends dog was clamping her tail a bit. I will pass it on to her also and maybe we are getting closer....


----------



## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

Ok, guys, back to square one....
just talked to my friend, the tail was thorrowly taken care off, and the LS is ruled out!


----------



## Martin Koops (Oct 15, 2009)

I would be taking the dog to a dog Chiropractor, have been very lucky to have access to a greyhound trainer with a wealth of knowledge. Usually takes one look at my dogs and will tell me whats out just by the way the dog moves. 

Can be very subtle and hard to pick up if your not very experienced, especially with high drive dogs with high pain tolerance.


----------



## Martin Koops (Oct 15, 2009)

Should have added might be an Idea to contact a local Greyhound racing association to get a recommendation for a Dog Chiro.


----------



## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

That is a great idea, I know there are two here, but don't know how good they are. No greyhounds here anymore that I know of. If I would be still living in Kansas I would know exactly where to go to....


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

A similar thing happened to one of my agility dogs. Extensive examinations revealed nothing. It was very puzzling as it didnt seem to affect her performance and she is a very high drive dog. 8 months later her cruciate went and we were in surgery.


----------



## Martin Koops (Oct 15, 2009)

You can normally tell very quickly how good a Dog Chiro. is, they should be able to tell you whats wrong with out any prompting from you. 

Do you have a local dog club or forum where you could ask for referrals?


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

I was seeing the same issues with my Malinois a while back.
I took him to my vet of 9 years, she checked everything, and nothing came up.
He continued to get worst, unless I didn't allow him to do anything... He would still cry out in pain for simple things like getting off his bed in the morning to go out... he was in serious pain!

When a friend of mine suggested I take him to a vet in the next city over for chiropractic treatments. 
I have since done only 3 sessions, and he's now 95%.

Since then, I put him on FLEX K9 by MVP K9, and that has taken him to 100%. 

I hope that helps you... these issues can be very hard to diagnose. 
All the best.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

It's going to be impossible to say without doing a thorough exam in person and likely doing radiographs. Before you even consider sending your dog to a chiropractor, have a knowledgeable in orthopaedics/neurology vet examine them. Never allow a chiropractor to adjust a dog without radiographs.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

I got my dogs and horses done with a bowen massage, $65 a pop. Dont know if it did anything, they weren't lame, but she balanced their energy!!!


----------



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> I got my dogs and horses done with a bowen massage, $65 a pop. Dont know if it did anything, they weren't lame, but she balanced their energy!!!


 I remain very reluctant to buy into this stuff my dog got done.result=nothing.other peoples dogs got done=nothing.But i too felt much better knowing my dogs energy was balanced.........:roll:


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

funny thing (to me anyway) ... there is a fairly well known lady in our town who does this energy balancing thing ... a little massage and a lot of hand waving action following the contour of the body to "feel the energy vibes" being given off, etc etc ....

she always hooks the customer by casually asking them if the person was feeling any stress.....
...came up to me and started in and i went with it...
....told her i had been stressed out...then i asked if it worked like that for all creatures and she said yes of course, and she told me how she had balanced out some friend's toy poodle...

... then i told her my dog had been very stressed lately and had been snapping at people for no apparent reason  
...then told her i would like to get him "balanced" and asked her if she wanted to run her hands around him to check his "aura" too  .... she declined


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> funny thing (to me anyway) ... there is a fairly well known lady in our town who does this energy balancing thing ... a little massage and a lot of hand waving action following the contour of the body to "feel the energy vibes" being given off, etc etc ....
> 
> she always hooks the customer by casually asking them if the person was feeling any stress.....
> ...came up to me and started in and i went with it...
> ...


*reiki healing*...That is what it is called here...

I talked to a guy at a PP event once that does Reiki for dogs in Chicago.. guy gets big bucks for it...claimed it works...I am sure mixed with a little massage it works at least for that..

same guy charges $950.00 for 7 one on one OB sessions.

He claimed he did Protection when I talked to him, I asked what equipment he used, and he told me...towels....

Funny thing happened a few months later, I was helping a friend who took in 2 dogs for OB and PP training, and they were this guys dogs...the same guy that charges 950.00 for one on one OB, and trains protection..

He is now doing DOGA too, yoga for dogs...which might be interesting I admit...

I am thinking of making a Q-Ray dog collar..might be my [-o< ticket ... EDIT: dammit someone has a magnetic healing dog collar already, and it is only 24 bucks...


----------



## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> I am thinking of making a Q-Ray dog collar..might be my [-o< ticket ... EDIT: dammit someone has a magnetic healing dog collar already, and it is only 24 bucks...


http://www.amazon.com/iRenew-Red-En...XKOC/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1337491242&sr=8-7

:-\"


I second the chiropractor. Mine undoubtedly saved my dog from retirement. Had I taken him to the vet it would have been some xrays, "don't see anything wrong", and maybe some anti-inflammatories while his pain got worse and worse for no obvious reason.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Doga - thats too much.

Tai-Chi????


----------



## Chris Keister (Jun 28, 2008)

My guess is something in the spine......

I have learned the hard way to go straight to a board certified Ortho vet for any type of potential structural issues. You save money in the long run. 

Nobody asked how old the dog was. If she is between 4-7 have an Ortho vet check for trans vertebral segment. This boney process between lumbar and sacral causes cuadae equine. The first initial symptom is a very slight shortening of the stride called "stamping" most people don't even see it. Further symptoms can be what you are describing. 

Another symptom is gradual "dead tail". Pull the dogs tail up and see if it stays or if it drops and is kind of limp. Pull the leg out straight so that the rear toenails touch the ground. If the foot stays in that position for more than a second that is another symptom. 

I have had three dogs with this. In addition my brothers dog has it and a friens had two Gsd, with it. All were symptomatic in the left rear leg. I can spot it in an instant now when I see it.


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Chris Keister said:


> My guess is something in the spine......
> 
> I have learned the hard way to go straight to a board certified Ortho vet for any type of potential structural issues. You save money in the long run.
> 
> ...


I agree with the above ^^^.

My dog (gsd) has been diagnosed with Cauda Equina or LSS, the specialist had a difficulty in seeing the 'lameness' I was talking about initially... it is still difficult to notice it for some. I had noticed very slight lameness in him,,, (I have background in horses and tend to be quite obsessed with movement), vet couldn't see anything at all with him. My dog is the rear right leg.


----------



## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

My girl seems all fine now, doesn't make any differences with her turns anymore, and when I talk about turns it is not a heeling version it is full blast run stop grab ball turn. 
Best guess was a pulled muscle. I am building her up slowly...well in her terms it is, slight jumping until I am sure her muscles and her are back in shape...

the other dog just turned three. there are no flaws in the range of motion, they move fine, certain movements seem to be painfull, ever so slightly but it is there. Jumping down from something is not painfull, jumping up is.
We have some homeopathic stuff we give. she will just do flat work for two weeks and then we'll see if we need to do further investigations....


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Also have the dog checked for Lyme disease. It can cause a geat deal of arthritis and swollen painful joints that seem to resolve at some points and then worsen at others. Good luck w/ her care.


----------



## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

Kat Hunsecker said:


> My girl seems all fine now, doesn't make any differences with her turns anymore, and when I talk about turns it is not a heeling version it is full blast run stop grab ball turn.
> Best guess was a pulled muscle. I am building her up slowly...well in her terms it is, slight jumping until I am sure her muscles and her are back in shape.......


 
I'm glad your dog is fine now, I had a similar thing happen to my GSD when we were training out in a new field, in investigating it, it appears that he bruised his paw deep enough inside on a rock or something to where it only bothered him when he ran and cornered and his paw took more weight. Took it easy on him for about 3 weeks and no further issues. Hope yours is something simple as well.


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Kat Hunsecker said:


> My girl seems all fine now, doesn't make any differences with her turns anymore, and when I talk about turns it is not a heeling version it is full blast run stop grab ball turn.


This was the same scenario which kicked off my dog.... he had this very slight lameness going on and off for a while and as I've already mentioned, the vet couldn't find anything wrong, he would go for the ball in the manner you just described, and one day his hind leg went under him on the turn and he looked like he had kinda been electrocuted. His tail clamped till about half way down then stuck out horizontally...it was spinal shock and he had popped a disc.

CES, or Lumbosacral Stenosis is apparently not uncommon, often times in the early stages the only symptoms can be very slight lameness in a hind limb, or a flat tail carriage, the main issue being pain though, it can be a very painful condition (nerve pain) for a dog. I had note of a study on this made on Swiss police dogs from a few years back...can't seem to find it, I'll have another look.

Hope it isn't that with your dog though and it resolves itself,,,maybe you'll be lucky and she has just had a knock.


----------



## Kat Hunsecker (Oct 23, 2009)

With my girl, we got to see, no visual limp,s she is fully working- well built up again.
we do have another lead possible with my friends dog . Currently doing more research.
the flea and tick treatment clean cause abdominal pains as well as lumbar pain.......


----------

