# Guard dog vs Protection Dog



## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

New on here so just wanted to know the real difference between guard and protection. I used to have a corso, lost him at a young age. Looking for a different breed. I live in suburbs so trying to decide what type of dog would be right. My wife had a hard to dealing with the corso cause her friends didnt want to come over because of him and his guarding issues. I still want a dog to protect my family when I am not home. Other than the mals and gsd are there comparable breeds as I really want to get into pp. Just to note I am a big dog lover, so its not that the mal couldnt do the job just looking for something with more size.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Glen Murray said:


> New on here so just wanted to know the real difference between guard and protection. I used to have a corso, lost him at a young age. Looking for a different breed. I live in suburbs so trying to decide what type of dog would be right. My wife had a hard to dealing with the corso cause her friends didnt want to come over because of him and his guarding issues. I still want a dog to protect my family when I am not home. Other than the mals and gsd are there comparable breeds as I really want to get into pp. Just to note I am a big dog lover, so its not that the mal couldnt do the job just looking for something with more size.


What is the question? it is unclear....


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Glen Murray said:


> New on here so just wanted to know the real difference between guard and protection.


Joby, it looks to me like he's trying to discern the differences between a guard and protection dog.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

sorry what is the difference between guard dog and protection type dogs. Secondly living in surburbs where the most that happens is someone breaking into to steal something not necessarily to harm you what is the best dog


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Glen Murray said:


> sorry what is the difference between guard dog and protection type dogs. Secondly living in surburbs where the most that happens is someone breaking into to steal something not necessarily to harm you what is the best dog


Get a big Rott, ask Chris Michalek..he had a break in with a couple of those dogs in the house and they performed perfectly.


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## Dennis Jones (Oct 21, 2009)

Glen Murray said:


> sorry what is the difference between guard dog and protection type dogs. Secondly living in surburbs where the most that happens is someone breaking into to steal something not necessarily to harm you what is the best dog


 
Good locks and good nieghbors go along way in keeping your stuff in your house. Alarm systems are also a good investment. I would check the rescues and find a barker. that sound more of what you need.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

I prefer a pure bred dog. Correct me if I am wrong guard dogs dont let anyone near your property and protection dogs will not some one in but at a moments notice can and will attack.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Glen Murray said:


> I prefer a pure bred dog. Correct me if I am wrong guard dogs dont let anyone near your property and protection dogs will not some one in but at a moments notice can and will attack.


Yes, purebreds are best at both jobs.


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Glen Murray said:


> I prefer a pure bred dog. Correct me if I am wrong guard dogs dont let anyone near your property and protection dogs will not some one in but at a moments notice can and will attack.


A true protection dog will do both. What exactly are you looking for the dog to do? Also, what state do you live in? What is the law in that state about a dog biting someone that is on your property? What does the law say about the dog biting someone that breaks into your home?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Glen Murray said:


> sorry what is the difference between guard dog and protection type dogs. Secondly living in surburbs where the most that happens is someone breaking into to steal something not necessarily to harm you what is the best dog


Get yourself two dogs. A noisy little yapper and a large, scarry looking dog for the yapper to wake up and scare the bad guys away. 
From the sound of your situation that's all you need. Probably just the yapper! :wink:


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

not a fan of yappers I orginally got the corso I admit because of the look. However I did research breeds that did not bark alot cause I dont like yappers. I live in Canada another reason I got a corso cause they are rare. Pitbulls are banned as while as anything resembling them that dont have their papers to prove them otherwise.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

How about a german shepherd and you can join a shutzhund club? He will bark at the bad guys. If you are successful at that you can determine if you need a personal protection dog later on down the road.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

gsd have started to grow on me i was never a fan, not because they couldnt do the job just with the popularity of the breed brings out poor breeders. for most everyday life surburban situations is it best to have pp dog or just a guard dog


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Am I still on the working dog forum ? Where is Will Rambo ??


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

rott or gsd if size is important probably the rott. ive had more bull breeds then i care to remember and not one of them would hold a candle in natural ability to gaurd that my one and only rott has and its a she.


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Glen Murray said:


> gsd have started to grow on me i was never a fan, not because they couldnt do the job just with the popularity of the breed brings out poor breeders. for most everyday life surburban situations is it best to have pp dog or just a guard dog


Again, a good dog should be able to do both personal protection and be a guard dog. What exactly are you looking for? What do you want the dog to do? If you have never had a really high drive dog like a working line GSD, Mali, or Dutchie, than I highly reccomend NOT getting one. However, I agree with some of the other people that said to just get a Rottie.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Glen Murray said:


> for most everyday life surburban situations is it best to have pp dog or just a guard dog



What exactly is it in Canadian suburban life that you need a big badass protection dog for?

Any large breed dog is a deterrent to property crime or random intruders, so pick whatever breed you like. Then train it either for a sport or just solid, reliable obedience.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Get a big Rott, ask Chris Michalek..he had a break in with a couple of those dogs in the house and they performed perfectly.


Yes gerry is correct. A big rott would have done the trick, my rott is less than 6 stones and he didn't do shit.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

OP, you don't come off as a guy who is actually going to train a dog to do anything. If I were you, I'd get a yapper, a mossberg 590 and a shit load of razor wire for the perimeter of your yard. Land mine work damn good at keeping out bad guys. 

You may want to consider a goose. Bad ass protection animals and you don't have to train them and if the screw up you can make stew out of him.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> What exactly is it in Canadian suburban life that you need a big badass protection dog for?
> 
> Any large breed dog is a deterrent to property crime or random intruders, so pick whatever breed you like. Then train it either for a sport or just solid, reliable obedience.


Takes a female to suss it out :lol:


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> OP, you don't come off as a guy who is actually going to train a dog to do anything. If I were you, I'd get a yapper, a mossberg 590 and a shit load of razor wire for the perimeter of your yard. Land mine work damn good at keeping out bad guys.
> 
> You may want to consider a goose. Bad ass protection animals and you don't have to train them and if the screw up you can make stew out of him.


 
1+ on the goose, the crap alone is a huge deterant.



For real though, I think a well bred Rott would fit the bill.


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## Gregory Escolta (Mar 11, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> OP, you don't come off as a guy who is actually going to train a dog to do anything. If I were you, I'd get a yapper, a mossberg 590 and a shit load of razor wire for the perimeter of your yard. Land mine work damn good at keeping out bad guys.
> 
> You may want to consider a goose. Bad ass protection animals and you don't have to train them and if the screw up you can make stew out of him.


 
HAHA! I have a Bullmastiff... Wonderful natural guarding ability and great with the family. A lot of Bullmastiff fanciers say that you shouldnt pp train this breed because it will do it on its own... Having said that, its like having a high school football star that doesnt go to practice... To bring out the best and to have control over the dog, train em!


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

For those that had legitimate advice thanks. For the others the dog world consist of more breeds than just the mal, ds, gsd (although great dogs)


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

the majority of poeple who say they own a guard dog who has a natural ability to guard and will bite a theif without any bite work training is very rare. In fact MOST, will only bark or growl at the intruder, which is enough of a deterrent to scare most intuders away. The sad part is, if the intuder were to challenge the dog with as little as loud verbal pressure, the dog would run. Just becuase you buy a particular breed of dog that is known for its ability to guard or protect, does not mean that individual dog you buy will. The dog must have both the genetic ability and have been trained in protection.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

agreed, that is why the mals etc excell at the sport, my thing is for example a bullmastiff from history was designed not just to guard but attack and knocked the intruder down, but never excelled at the sport. I think it has been dumbed down.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> agreed, that is why the mals etc excell at the sport, my thing is for example a bullmastiff from history was designed not just to guard but attack and knocked the intruder down, but never excelled at the sport. I think it has been dumbed down.



you don't seem to know much about dogs. few untrained dogs are going to do anything for you. 

Speaking of bullmastifs, last week there was a loose in my neighborhood. I didn't notice it around the corner of my house when I let my dog out to get in the truck. He charged my rottie and they tangled for a few seconds. Then I grabbed my padded whip from the car and whacked the shit out of the BM. He quit fighting and ran to my door step where I continued to wail on him with my padded stick. Then the owner came and yelled at me for beating her dog. 

Obviously that dog is not trained to deal with pressure, start that shit with either of my two trained dogs and you're going to end up with an appendage or two full of Rottie or Mal teeth.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

you missed what i was saying i was agreeing that not all guard dogs will go beyond guarding ie actually attacking. the bullmastiff was that they were designed to first guard but if things went further they were to knock the intruder down and hold them. I would think that if the bullmastiff had this original design then obviously breeds have dumbed it down to the point where the cannot succed at mondio or other like sports.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

You live in the suburbs, just go down to your local shelter and adopt a small terrier. There are plenty of pure bred dogs in the shelter system. Since you have neighbors the barking dog is going to be more than enough to deter any would be thieves. You say you don't like barking dogs, me neither, but if you want an effective guardian the bark is going to be your biggest asset. 

1) It will almost always scare away a thief. The only time it wouldn't neccesarily scare someone away is if they knew you had a big ass priceless diamond or a picasso hanging in the foyer or if they were there not to steal something but to do you harm. Thieves would rather rob the people with no dog. In and out, quick and easy. 

2) It will wake you up or alert neighbors that something may be awry.

You really don't want your dog to attack an intruder just as you don't want to have to shoot an intruder, as it opens up the possibility for litigation. I don't know about canada but here in the states, there are some municipalities where if your dog is trained in PP and attacks and injures/ maims an intruder, the intruder can sue you for damages and use of excessive force. 

It doesn't matter how big the dog is or how scary it looks, as long as it barks with some gusto at the window or door. This is especially true if your little plot is surrounded by a bunch of other little plots with people who can help or call the fuzz or some such. 

If you are dead set on a "guardian" dog to buy I'd still suggest a small terrier. If you just need to have a big bad looking dog then I'd say you're being silly as hell, but a well bred, trained and handpicked adult Rott *to suit your family* might work very well. Please get yourself a good trainer to come to your home and continue with the dog's training. It doesn't sound like you are prepared for this, but in the end its your life, decision and money.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> you don't seem to know much about dogs. few untrained dogs are going to do anything for you.
> 
> Speaking of bullmastifs, last week there was a loose in my neighborhood. I didn't notice it around the corner of my house when I let my dog out to get in the truck. He charged my rottie and they tangled for a few seconds. Then I grabbed my padded whip from the car and whacked the shit out of the BM. He quit fighting and ran to my door step where I continued to wail on him with my padded stick. Then the owner came and yelled at me for beating her dog.
> 
> Obviously that dog is not trained to deal with pressure, start that shit with either of my two trained dogs and you're going to end up with an appendage or two full of Rottie or Mal teeth.


Chris, I agree. Few untrained dogs will help you. There are some that will, but they are rare. You could not beat my previously untrained female off a bite with a rubber garden hose at 6 months old. 

We concentrated much of her training on controlling that natural aggression.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

Let me try this again. I HATE SMALL LITTLE TERRIER DOGS. i recently lost my cane corso solid as a rock he did his job well and was trained by a professional. I am looking for suggestion of dog that has both guarding and protection skills that I WILL TRAIN. My corso wouldnt let ANYBODY in my house or my property except my brother. As some have suggest a rottie or gsd would be the way to go, just looking for other suggests. I like to be different so that is why just seeing if there are other breeds.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

What's wrong with small terrier dogs ??? Jrts are fab guards and good biters too !!


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

lol my friends bit me thats why i dont like them


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> lol my friends bit me thats why i dont like them


Fair enough ! You say you like to be different, have you considered a standard poodle, I've heard a good one can be awesome ?


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## Dennis Jones (Oct 21, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> Fair enough ! You say you like to be different, have you considered a standard poodle, I've heard a good one can be awesome ?


 
Didn't I read a few of them got Sch titles?


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Good grief, you want and untrained dog that will bite...get a chow chow. They probably only bite because nobody ever told them that untrained dogs don't bite. 
Personally, I don't need a dog for protection....all they got to do is tell me someone is around because I figure I am a better judge of who gets a pass and who doesn't than my dogs and my guns are sitting on the tables


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Or a dachshund.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Dennis Jones said:


> Didn't I read a few of them got Sch titles?


 
Probably, I think they are an interesting and whacky breed, I've heard some do well in bite sports.


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## Dennis Jones (Oct 21, 2009)

Glenn, any dog you choose is going to have to be trained for what you want it to do. A Border Collie doesn't know how to herd sheep, it just has the genetics that predisposes it to try to move and check the movement of large moving things


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> lol my friends bit me thats why i dont like them


So... one dog bit you once... so you don't like no even just the breed but the entire type of dog now? :roll:
That's pretty weak nerves there. Maybe you should just get another dog like your last one since you seem to be so very particular about the type of dog you want?

Keep in mind if your last one was "protective"you were pretty lucky, it's easy to find a dog that will guard it's space, throw any dog in the backyard long enough and you'll almost always get that result. If you want a dog that will actively protect your person it takes a bit of actual work. There are reason certain breeds are popular, it's because they do the JOB.

People aren't being tight wads by suggestion certain breeds they simply know the LIKELYHOOD of that breed actually doing the job versus just being a gigantic couch potato that looks kinda scary sometimes. People on this board actually know what they're talking about, they don't say get a breed for no reason. You can listen to all the hype bs other breed specific boards will tell you or you can come to a place that's not biased and actually listen. 

If you want a dog that will protect a yard get a scary looking dog that will bark, if you want more than that, you have to PUT IN more than that.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Amy Swaby said:


> So... one dog bit you once... so you don't like no even just the breed but the entire type of dog now? :roll:
> That's pretty weak nerves there. Maybe you should just get another dog like your last one since you seem to be so very particular about the type of dog you want?
> 
> Keep in mind if your last one was "protective"you were pretty lucky, it's easy to find a dog that will guard it's space, throw any dog in the backyard long enough and you'll almost always get that result. If you want a dog that will actively protect your person it takes a bit of actual work. There are reason certain breeds are popular, it's because they do the JOB.
> ...


Amy - I think you just explained everything in plain, blunt English. I am also guessing there are decoys here that could have run his untrained Cane Corso off the field. Just a hunch!=D>


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

I try to talk to people looking for a dog all the time about this.
Thousands of years of breeding for specific traits creates certain types of dogs
people only see looks and cute, or they had one as a kid or someone just happens to have pups right now but they never bother to research the breed.
its like thinking any car can run in Nascar, or even that a nascar car could run in drag races, they are build for different things, so are dogs. 
guard shepherd breeds like the Pyrenees or Komondor, left with a flock to guard it. Real life work. The best ones kept and bred. They guard great but worked alone so dont take direction as well.

best thing you can do is not care what a dog looks like,but no one ever does.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

At what point in my posts did I suggest that mals, gsd, ds where not great in what they do orthat people on here dont know what they are talking about. I came here to find out if I really needed to have a protection or guard dog. I realize I need something in the middle like a rottie or gsd. I have preference for larger dogs what is the big deal? When I do get another dog I would like to compete in one of the sports with them that I will enjoy and have some success.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> At what point in my posts did I suggest that mals, gsd, ds where not great in what they do orthat people on here dont know what they are talking about. I came here to find out if I really needed to have a protection or guard dog. I realize I need something in the middle like a rottie or gsd. I have preference for larger dogs what is the big deal? When I do get another dog I would like to compete in one of the sports with them that I will enjoy and have some success.


 
In that case hang around for a while and read a bit.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

My male Dutchie just killed a chicken from the next door neighbors place. It wandered through the farm fence dog run I have. I have to go apologize to the neighbor. He's a great guard dog.

Is this off topic?:grin:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> My male Dutchie just killed a chicken from the next door neighbors place. It wandered through the farm fence dog run I have. I have to go apologize to the neighbor.
> 
> Is this off topic?:grin:


You've been at those banana/coconut wallbangers again haven't you ? :grin: This is serious shit you know.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

maggie fraser said:


> You've been at those banana/coconut wallbangers again haven't you ? :grin: This is serious shit you know.


Not talking!:lol:


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> My male Dutchie just killed a chicken from the next door neighbors place. It wandered through the farm fence dog run I have. I have to go apologize to the neighbor. He's a great guard dog.
> 
> Is this off topic?:grin:


 
Nope. Just a free meal.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Patrick Salerno said:


> Nope. Just a free meal.


I didn't let him eat it. I don't want my dogs to think killing the neighbors chickens entitle them to a gourmet meal.=;


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Is your dog fed raw or kibble?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I didn't let him eat it. I don't want my dogs to think killing the neighbors chickens entitle them to a gourmet meal.=;


Did you eat it then, pan fried with garlic and chilli followed by a long cool one ?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> At what point in my posts did I suggest that mals, gsd, ds where not great in what they do orthat people on here dont know what they are talking about. I came here to find out if I really needed to have a protection or guard dog. I realize I need something in the middle like a rottie or gsd. I have preference for larger dogs what is the big deal? When I do get another dog I would like to compete in one of the sports with them that I will enjoy and have some success.



what's the fascination with large dogs? They don't have the stamina to do anything. Do you have plans to get a dog and train it or just keep in the house or yard and expect that it will protect and guard you?


Gerry alluded to a situation that I had last year. I have six dogs. Three Rotts, one Mal and two pugs. Somebody broke in and the dogs didn't alert until it was too late.

Of all my dogs, I can tell you right now, the mali is the one you don't want to face in a confrontation.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Patrick Salerno said:


> Is your dog fed raw or kibble?


 Costa Rica kibble (shit in a bag). I live too far back in the mountains to get them on a descent regular raw diet plus I don't have the freezer space.


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## Dennis Jones (Oct 21, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Costa Rica kibble (shit in a bag). I live too far back in the mountains to get them on a descent regular raw diet plus I don't have the freezer space.


seafood maybe? I use salmon or mackeral and rice


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

maggie fraser said:


> Did you eat it then, pan fried with garlic and chilli followed by a long cool one ?


No Maggie! It had to be relatively small to fit in through the farm fence dog run. They drive my dogs crazy. They are always try to get though the fence. This one didn't escape in time. People who keep chickens here are very common. I have people who have chickens on both sides of my property. In the mornings they turn them loose to "graze". 

Semi "wild" chickens are a bit tougher but tasty.


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## Carlos Machado (Dec 28, 2008)

This may have been said already but I think of a guard dog as a yard/shop/junkyard/home dog with usually little training or testing as long as it looks and acts the part it may not stand up to a real fight but few would chance it. A protection dog has been trained to bite and gained confidence trough repeated wins with a decoy along with obedience training for control if they have the right balance of drives and good nerves they can be safer in public and better able to deal with a real threat than just a Guard dog who may bite out of fear and put on a good show but wouldn't stay in the fight if things get real and some sport dogs aren't guard dogs naturally it may all be a fun game. My first Rottie was a natural guard dog that she had many live bites usually for no reason until I took her to bite a man with a sleve she put on a great show bites quick but lets go just as quick it gave her enough confidence that she realized people had to ask for a bite she lived the rest of her life without biting anyone else, she put fear in anyone who saw her but wouldn't make the best protection dog but a good guard dog. If your looking for big off breeds I'd recommend Rottweiler, Boerbeol, Presa, Cane Corso, American bulldog, Bullmastiff, Fila Brasileiro, English/French/German/Italian Mastiff, Bouvier, Giant Schnauzer, Beauceron, Rhodesian Ridgeback_,_ Azores Cattle Dog or one of the many Livestock guardian breeds they are all big but would be difficult to do any sports with they usually lacking prey drive and the last 5 may not be giants but still capable. With any breed you have to research the parents more than the breed there are many more rare breeds that could do it dogs under 100 pound usually do better for real work with more energy & drive.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> what's the fascination with large dogs? They don't have the stamina to do anything. Do you have plans to get a dog and train it or just keep in the house or yard and expect that it will protect and guard you?
> 
> 
> Gerry alluded to a situation that I had last year. I have six dogs. Three Rotts, one Mal and two pugs. Somebody broke in and the dogs didn't alert until it was too late.
> ...


I am a big athletic guy so I like larger dogs so when we are at home with the family we can rough house and play again not that small dogs are no good just not for me. I do plan on getting into one the many sports that are available as I have been to a few and like what I saw particularly from the mals. But I want the challenge of a different breed. By the way when I mean big dogs I am talking like 90-120lbs


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> I am a big athletic guy so I like larger dogs so when we are at home with the family we can rough house and play again not that small dogs are no good just not for me. I do plan on getting into one the many sports that are available as I have been to a few and like what I saw particularly from the mals. But I want the challenge of a different breed. By the way when I mean big dogs I am talking like 90-120lbs



you're going to end up like me and a lot of others. You start with a dog like a Rott and then as you get serious you realize the other breeds are nothing but a pile of fur that eats a **** load, shit a tonne and doesn't really do anything and you get into real working breeds. 

I've been a rottie guy for over 15 years, my current is a good one, he loves to work and has a great temperment but he is no comparison to the Mal that I have. The Mali is soooo much better at everything and it makes it fun. I enjoy training and felt like I was worthy of putting a feather in my cap for making my Rottie what he is. What I realized is I was really just banging my head against the wall. The Mal is so easy to train, works harder and faster and is simply a better breed for what I am doing. You can rough house with either one. If I had to choose which dog is tougher, it's the Mali hands down.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> I am a big athletic guy so I like larger dogs so when we are at home with the family we can rough house and play again not that small dogs are no good just not for me. I do plan on getting into one the many sports that are available as I have been to a few and like what I saw particularly from the mals. But I want the challenge of a different breed. By the way when I mean big dogs I am talking like 90-120lbs


This gets even more incredible. Rough house with a PPD. My dogs would light up after about 5 seconds. This is Lassie or Rin Tin TIn stuff.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

DUMB ASS if you cant rough house with your dog without him lightening up on YOU then he is unstable


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> DUMB ASS if you cant rough house with your dog without him lightening up on YOU then he is unstable


Okay mister 13 post dude. Now we are going to start with the personal insults. I suggest you do a lot of research reading. This forum is loaded with good info.](*,)


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

Last time i checked if your dog is well trained it will understand that you and it are just having fun. Your dog is not in work mode all the time unless your keeping it locked up when your not working it


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

you just said this is rin tin stuff didnt you? I came here looking for info and guys like Chris are helping me, guys like you are wasting space on this post


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Okay mister 13 post dude. Now we are going to start with the personal insults. I suggest you do a lot of research reading. This forum is loaded with good info.](*,)


Why is it those "alternate" PP breeds guys always seem to know more than the guys who have the same type of dog that is widely use around the world in a multitude of situations?


Glen, have you ever been around a seriously serious dog?


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

Only at the events I have been to and talked to some of the handlers


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> Last time i checked if your dog is well trained it will understand that you and it are just having fun. Your dog is not in work mode all the time unless your keeping it locked up when your not working it


My dogs understand that I'm playing but it gets out of hand rapidly. My male growls at me when I give him a unfair command or correction. I don't correct for his noisy objections. We have a mutual respect for each other. 

My female does not do that but you would not want to run into her in a dark alley.

Their obedience is excellent. I am retired and spend lots of time time with these guys. I know they get more one on one time with me than most dogs every day.

I DON'T ROUGH HOUSE!


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## Dennis Jones (Oct 21, 2009)

Glen Murray said:


> Only at the events I have been to and talked to some of the handlers


Good start, I'd talk to them and see what the would recommend and see if you could train with them or have them recommend a trainer. I got a friend who is a hobby breeder of working line GSDs and he is working with Cane Corsos because they "fit" better, he's a big guy, use to be a ball player, he makes his 80Lbs look like a puppy. Who knows, there may be that Cane Corso you're looking for. But I'm going to repeat myself. you have to train the big pupper to the goals you want/need


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> Only at the events I have been to and talked to some of the handlers


so you haven't been around really serious dogs. 

Lee has a serious dog.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I don't rough house much with my dog either, he gets too worked up and if he two foots you in the gut you fold up right now.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> so you haven't been around really serious dogs.
> 
> Lee has a serious dog.


Aight got no problem with that, just learning more and getting better info not to be treated like a 1 year old[-X lol


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

*Jack Russell Terrier!!!*


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> you just said this is rin tin stuff didnt you? I came here looking for info and guys like Chris are helping me, guys like you are wasting space on this post


 Chris is patiently trying to help you. Many others are too. Are you hearing what they are trying to explain?

I'm bummed out my male Dutchie killed one of the neighbor's chickens today. Maybe that's why I'm impatient.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

I am reading and understanding clearly. Its hard cause l like be dogs but realllyyyy loving the sport more so I can conform just hard to accept thats all


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

OK, so I'm bored and read another PPD thread 

Glen, how about this?

1. You never clearly stated what you want the dog to do for you! Guard you, house, wife, kids, bark it's head off at anyone that approaches or sink teeth, etc. All of the above?

2. Do you have a Sch. or Ring club near you?

3. Why on earth would you want an off breed?

Consider:
Rare car, say a 1959 Fiat, real PITA to get those expensive parts for or find someone that knows how to diagnoise and repair. But pretty cool cruisin the Blvd on Friday night.

Off breed, real PITA to find a trainer that is very familuar with the breed or that would even want to work one. But on the off chance you could get a rare bread a title in Sch or Ring and it will do what you want at home, it would be a very cool accomplishment. But I think most here would tell you as a green handler/trainer, very improvable. Pretty cool thow walking through the park on Sunday afternoon.

4. If you have a club(s) go visit them, ask a FEW questions about their dogs, etc. DON"T mention you are looking for a guard/PPD, some clubs will send you packing in a flash. After a few visits ask about puppies or anyone breeding and what. If you purchase from someone in the club or a breeder know by the club you are more likely going to receive the best help and training as well. Also consider that many clubs have people approaching them often, with off breeds and most clubs aren't really interested. Why? The chance of success is very low, and the club would spend a lot more time trying to get a off breed working correctly.


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

There is a Sch club near by. I was originally asking the difference between guard vs protection and what might be better for my situation and in a round about way got my answer I did join this site cause I am very interested in training and working my dog (which was a corso but he's gone). So looking for a different breed that would fit my needs.


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

*Jack Russell Terrier!!!*

...they are tough buggers.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Fair enough, while it's really grey, I would say a guard dog does just that, guards people/property, a protection dog will protects people (bite) if the need arises. 

In subsequent post you allso mentioned, large, off breeds, sport, etc.

Understand that many people (not saying you) come here with ideas about getting some savage PPD dog or whatnot cause there uncle's house just got robbed or whatever, and this is why some focks here make a joke or three about it.


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

Glen Murray said:


> There is a Sch club near by. I was originally asking the difference between guard vs protection and what might be better for my situation and in a round about way got my answer I did join this site cause I am very interested in training and working my dog (which was a corso but he's gone). So looking for a different breed that would fit my needs.


If you want a *BIG* dog that can do sport and be scary looking get a Rottie. Especially if you have never handled a high drive dog like a Mali, Dutchie, or (GOOD) WORKING LINE GSD, I would not reccomend one for someone who has never handled dogs like these before. So again I would look around and find a good adult Rottie.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

The neighbor said no problem that my guard dog killed one of his chickens. What a relief. not.:smile:

I knew you guys were really worried.:---)


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## Riley Rodewald (Feb 12, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> The neighbor said no problem that my guard dog killed one of his chickens. What a relief. not.:smile:
> 
> I knew you guys were really worried.:---)


 
Personally I'm very relieved lol


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## Dennis Jones (Oct 21, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> The neighbor said no problem that my guard dog killed one of his chickens. What a relief. not.:smile:
> 
> I knew you guys were really worried.:---)


you offered to pay for it off course.....didn't you? you don't want some strange HooDoo curse that makes body parts fall off or something


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## Glen Murray (Mar 16, 2010)

Patrick Salerno said:


> If you want a *BIG* dog that can do sport and be scary looking get a Rottie. Especially if you have never handled a high drive dog like a Mali, Dutchie, or (GOOD) WORKING LINE GSD, I would not reccomend one for someone who has never handled dogs like these before. So again I would look around and find a good adult Rottie.


Actuallly I prefer the opposite lol that was the problem with the corso, I realize that a gsd or rottie will suit me just fine here in canada especially for the rottie hard to find a good breeder


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Dennis and Riley - Thanks for your concerns. I knew you were worried.:-D

Dennis, it was a small chicken. I did offer, even though it was in my yard. The neighbor is a good guy. He laughed. I will buy him a beer next time he hits the watering hole so I don't get hexed.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Good eat'ins?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> Good eat'ins?


Too small and bony. I threw it out back for the snakes.:-D


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Prolly would have just wound up in the chicken ring anyhows! :roll: :wink:


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## Jeff Batiste (Nov 10, 2009)

I'd suggest a Presa Canario if you're looking for a Gaurd Dog with serious intimidation factor, you just have to be careful with the breeder you select, if you get a good one they are great with the family and leary of strangers. 

If your looking for a more spirited Gaurd Dog I like Giant Schnauzers they are energetic, intelligent and tenacious can be a bit playful as a pup but serious dogs when they mature...


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## vincent mann (Mar 14, 2010)

so original question was "should i get a guard dog or personal protection dog", this question shows your ignorance, these two terms are synonymous unless your equating a guard dog to a junk yard dog (area guard dog that will engage anyone within their current domain)

then you stated something about not wanting the dog to bite an intruder necessarily, are you worried about liability because in Ontario Canada you are not liable if your dog bites someone that is in the midst of a criminal act, including the crime of trespass, and imo a dog that wont bite someone in this situation is not worth feeding

then this thread turned into a breed selection discussion, i think you have a lot of homework to do before you get a real working lines dog because some are very sharp and demand respect, if you think rough play with a dog is something every dog you own should comply with be prepared for an emergency room trip, because its clear you have no clue about living with a real man stopper and the kind of drives they poses

then you also stated you would like to compete with the dog, well ask some of the people on this site the amount of time per week they put into their dogs, its equivalent to a second job, just the tracking takes hours a week, from your level of knowledge i don't think you are prepared for that, (i may be wrong, but don't think so)

so my analysis get a retriever (nice dog you can roll around with it), and a good alarm system,


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Glen Murray said:


> Actuallly I prefer the opposite lol that was the problem with the corso, I realize that a gsd or rottie will suit me just fine here in canada especially for the rottie hard to find a good breeder


If you're looking for people in your area you might be SoL anyway. I import ALL my dogs, when you live in the bahamas there's no such thing as a good breeder they're all byb ghetto wannabe's. If you're serious about looking at a working dog you need to start looking at a broader range.

My rottweilers have come from the U.S., Germany, Hungary and Serbia. Also understand that a decent working rottweiler is usually going to cost more than a working gsd or mal


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## Patrick Salerno (Apr 6, 2009)

good point made, Vincent.


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## vincent mann (Mar 14, 2010)

Amy Swaby said:


> If you're looking for people in your area you might be SoL anyway. I import ALL my dogs, when you live in the bahamas there's no such thing as a good breeder they're all byb ghetto wannabe's. If you're serious about looking at a working dog you need to start looking at a broader range.
> 
> My rottweilers have come from the U.S., Germany, Hungary and Serbia. Also understand that a decent working rottweiler is usually going to cost more than a working gsd or mal


there are good breeders in Canada, most of whom augment their breeding program with adult imports from Germany that have attained titles and breeding certifications, many puppies exported from Europe are often rejects not fit to enter their country of origins breeding program, 

unless you have a contact that is well respected in the country that can demand that the quality dogs be shown to him, and then can test the litter for drives and stability, i would never risk this


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

There is a working long time Rott breeder whose kennel name is Janek. He is located in Spokane, Wa, which is close to the Canadian border. Meng Xong ( hope I spelled that right) trains at his club. He is well known and respected.


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> There is a working long time Rott breeder whose kennel name is Janek. He is located in Spokane, Wa, which is close to the Canadian border. Meng Xong ( hope I spelled that right) trains at his club. He is well known and respected.


 
Yes, Jenecks. Eckart is well known and respected, i'm not well known or respected. :lol:

Go check out his website and call him, don't email because he probably won't respond back. 


If you are used to the molloser/bully/mastiff type breeds I think a Rotti is going to be a easy transition because they are similar in their resting characteristics, but where they differ is working drives/temperment. The dogs ive seen him produce are all very well balanced dogs, great prey drives, intelligent and plenty of fight, but like with any working-bred dog they are going to need training and a strong leader.


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Also, if you'd like to learn more about the breed and the breeder of Jenecks, check out this documentary.;-)

I really enjoyed watching it. It will give you an idea of the type of dogs he strives to produce.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...&ei=DQikS9ODN5mKqQPVl9jjBQ&q=rottweiler&hl=en#


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Oh I'm not saying that there aren't good breeders in Canada, I'm just saying don't limit oneself. Know where to look and how to look. I have never set foot in any of those countries but I know the dogs the lines produce and who is who. It's not that hard to find information if you actually look for it.

I have never had an issue with an import because I know where and who I'm getting my dogs from. Jeneck DOES have great dogs, I just like the tails and they dock litters. Obviously not an issue for other people just my taste kind of thing.


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## vincent mann (Mar 14, 2010)

Amy Swaby said:


> Oh I'm not saying that there aren't good breeders in Canada, I'm just saying don't limit oneself. Know where to look and how to look. I have never set foot in any of those countries but I know the dogs the lines produce and who is who. It's not that hard to find information if you actually look for it.
> 
> I have never had an issue with an import because I know where and who I'm getting my dogs from. Jeneck DOES have great dogs, I just like the tails and they dock litters. Obviously not an issue for other people just my taste kind of thing.


why dont you share with us, the European breeders you have successfully sourced dogs from


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