# What went wrong???? Handler/Dog/Decoy



## Denise Picicci (Sep 9, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiZPiK48pZ0


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

LOL,

Handler Sucks!


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

hahahahaha me thinks dog revenge...LOL
remember that time...


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I think all three. 

I just erased my explaination of why I though all three. Now I don't think so. We can't really say what went wrong. We don't know the handler or the dog. How much training has been had we don't know. We do know that it happened. This is Murphy's law. 

Alright it happened. What should the decoy have done to prevent this ? The decoy could have prevented this IMO. He should have been between the handler and dog. This would have prevented this.

Murphy's Law........sucks


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

"The decoy could have prevented this IMO. He should have been between the handler and dog. This would have prevented this."

So, the decoy needs to be between the dog and Handler? :-o


If anything the Handler did not know his dog and the dog did not respect the handler, Crap Handler.

IMO it is not the Decoys job to protect Stupid Handlers.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

YOUCH!!! Bet that hurt like a mother ***** 

I agree with Jerry.....and I could see the conflict for the dog there for a split second or two........the "Oh Sh*it.....I was supposed to bite that guy, but this guys is moving around like crazy too....."


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## Denise Picicci (Sep 9, 2007)

I wonder if during the excitment of going for the bite the dog was not thinking at that moment. Looks like the dog did know his handler after the fact so maybe during the rush of it all he was not thinking about the handler but about the bite. The decoy should have seen this coming before hand and try to attract the dog to him. JMO


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

YES, the decoy needs to protect the handler. The decoy pushed the handler out to the side of the decoy. The dog went for the easy bite or at least the most available bite. Lack of training maybe that's what got him bit but the decoy should have protected him.

If a decoy let some people get bit like this, a decoy may also have a bad day.
The decoy is responsible for the safty of the dog and handler and anyone else the dog may go for. Judge or someone in the stands. The decoy is dressed for this and he better protect.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

In training Yes, that kind of Demo NO it is not the Decoys job to protect the Handler.

If the dog is not ready the Handler should know this, if not He/she gets bit.

The Handler was Afraid of the dog, not a good scenario.

Seen this type of Jack Assery quite a bit, mostly with the PP crowd! :lol:


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## Toran Scott (Mar 27, 2009)

Did anybody watch the other two vids? Looks like this was at a convention or something showing off sport work. Looked like FR but I didn't understand the two dog attack (when showing sport). Stinks that an issue like that would happen when you are giving a demo... at least the dog didn't decide to go into the crowd... he certainly wasn't too afraid to bite for real... no fun...
Toran


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## Denise Picicci (Sep 9, 2007)

Have to disagree that in A Demo like this the decoy should have done something to redirect the dog before he took a LIVE bite. I am sure alot of the on lookers are not informed on bite work. WHat they saw was a dog that took a LIVE bite. Not good publicity for the sport or the breed.

I will also add that maybe this dog should have not been put in this demo. The other video could have gone south also, looked like a dogfight could have happened all while the public is watching.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

It IS the handler's dog and responsibility. In this case He chose to put a dog out there that was not ready or trained for the type of demo given. 

What is the handlers job Here in the video? Just stand there looking stupid and bleed? #-o


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

same scenario as the muzzle attack when you fall in front of your dog. They should of had a few practice attempts outside 
.


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## Jason Hammel (Aug 13, 2009)

OUCH!

looked like he almost pushed the guy into the dog.

I heard about a scenario similar to this once but it was at a seminar. The dog was sent on the decoy = everything went well. Later in the day that decoy was out of suit and the dog was sent on a new decoy BUT instead the dog went back to targeting the original decoy (who had already undressed from suit) = the dog was called off but I bet the original decoy dropped a load in his shorts

anyone heard of that scenario?


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Kyle, I'm sorry but we'll have to disagree. Safty is always the most important thing in bitting dogs wheather it's ring or PP as you put it. Demo , trial, training or whatever. The decoy will at all times have safty as his first responsibility. If not then that decoy should be excused. Again Murphy's law will jump in and show himself. I would even bet that this decoy would have jumped in sooner if he had been paying closer attention to what was happening. This was the decoys fault.

Sorry Kyle but we can agree to disagree. That is all good.


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## Niomi Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

Hi I am new here, but I wanted to ask a question about this video, I just hope the question doesn't sound too stupid

But.....

Is it possible the handler bite worked his own dog?

Could he have worked the dog as a decoy in practice, making the dog a little confused as to who the actual decoy was?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I think the dog looked mighty confused on what he was suppose to be doing...It does make me to suspect the handler may have worked his own dog prior to this. The dog starts to second guess himself when the decoy tries to attract him...But yet stays with the handler. The dog is looking at them both as if to say "but that's not what we practised". And the dog quickly comes under control. With that I think the dog was trying to do the right thing...It just was not taught very well. 

The lack of information here is quite the problem when trying to guess what happened. Also the dog did not look like he had more than the mans pants.

Just looks like the dog was confused and did not know what was expected of him. It's easy for us to arm chair quarter back this one. But I also have a feeling that this was a simple training error, and could happen to anyone. 

The only thing they both are guilty of, is thinking the behavior was proofed and the dog was sure in his work. I am sure all of us have thought our dogs knew what they were doing and did something else. They just did it with a bunch of people watching.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Does this seem similar to the handler pushed to the ground scenario to anyone else - where the dog goes for the handler instead of the decoy? 

We had a huge thread about it...


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

I agree with KS... The handler dropped the ball way before he entered that demo. and as a decoy I always try to position myself between the dog and the handler when ever possible but in this case the decoy did try to hit the dog with the bottles and it seemed like the dog took the easier target. The lack of bond and training are the cause of this snafu. IMO. I also feel that in a lot of trials and even in training people get too complacent and treat bite work as a fun game... leaving holes in the training and areas where things like this can happen. To me form the time the dog enters the field... training area...the attention should be 100% on him/her from both handler and decoy until the game is over and the dog has left the field / training area. It is also very important to train and proof for these type of scenarios as you can only count on you and your dog and never count on the decoy to step in... unless you just train for a specific sport and are happy with the mediocrity of the confines of any one sport. Imagine if this was a carjack and the dog had to come across the handler in the drivers seat and engage the decoy over the handlers lap... Huuummmm...lol 
I feel the handler should have took a second to regroup and get clear communication with the dog before trying to send him back to the decoy... poor handling and another training error.
Great video though. 
JMHO
E


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Training is the cause BUT prevention should have been on the decoy.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

A good example why we shouldn't demonstrate our bite sports in demos, game fairs and stupid exhibitions.
Who's fault is all involved they shouldn't have been doing that stupid shit with out 100% preparation in the first place, dumb asses.
As for here its just a matter of time with all the PPD people and street thugs starting to put on there little shows for public display trying to make money and just showing off.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I think the dog and handler have a few issues. First, the dog bites the handler. But we can chalk that up to confusion on the dogs part. However, the dog did not immediately let go, and I can't believe once he bit the handler he didn't KNOW who he was biting. He just didn't care. But to me, and just as importantly, is what happened after the dog let go and the handler told him to "attack attack". The dog turned and took another shot at the handler, who then fended him off, grabbed the leash, and held the dog away from him. At that point that dog is either VERY unclear in the head or very aware of who he is biting and doesn't give a sh!t.

I had something similar happen to me years ago in a PP competition, it was a two decoy scenario where the dog was sent on a decoy about 50 feet away, then a second one jumped out of hiding and attacked me. I had to call my dog "out" and have him come back to bite the second decoy. The decoy didn't let go of me, kept "attacking" me (more like hugging me) and my dog came back and nailed me in the leg. But he also let go so fast and redirected into the decoy that nobody watching was sure if I'd been bit or not. I heard a number of people in the crowd asking each other if I was bit, I acted like nothing at all had happened, finished the scenario, outed my dog and we left the field. I checked the damage later, out of sight LOL. 

The decoy was trying to redirect the dog onto himsef, and shoved the handler far enough away that I am sure he thought the dog would know who to bite, vs a scenario like my bite. The dog had a clear target, if he took the handler instead of the decoy because he was the "easier" target then I would suggest he might have gone right past the decoy to the handler regardless of where the handler was.

Either way, the dog/handler have some issues they need to work out, and shouldn't have been doing that type of demo.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

that was interesting to watch.

would ya'll say that was a case of bite redirection or handler aggression? maybe both?

to my newbie eyes it looked like a very confused dog who redirected on the first bite, but the second shot at the handlers makes me think the dog might not like him very much.


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## Jackie Mulligan (Mar 15, 2009)

A new dog/handler team, maybe? The dog looked like he didn't hesitate at all to try and re-bite his own handler. The first bite I could see being a case of mistaken identity from a less than clear-headed dog, but the second (attempt) to bite?


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