# My puppy bites a lot!



## guilherme sa marques (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello again,

As you may know i have a male Bullmastiff and yes im happy because he as good drive (most of bullmastiff not), he doesn´t like very much the ball...he prefers the tug.
I play tug with him with comands of course (he as 3 and half months ) and he loves it, the problem is that he bites me and my wife (he bites my wife harder), once he bite my finger and wanted to carry to is bed ](*,)](*,)

I am a bit concerned...is this because we play with tug? how can i fix this (with leash maybe?) 

some help please.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

guilherme sa marques said:


> Hello again,
> 
> As you may know i have a male Bullmastiff and yes im happy because he as good drive (most of bullmastiff not), he doesn´t like very much the ball...he prefers the tug.
> I play tug with him with comands of course (he as 3 and half months ) and he loves it, the problem is that he bites me and my wife (he bites my wife harder), once he bite my finger and wanted to carry to is bed ](*,)](*,)
> ...


How do you fix this? Why does it always seem so hard to fix? A lot of people are going to jump on this post and say redirect the bite to something else or come up with other solutions which pretty much go around dealing with the problem.

My suggestion is that you stop allowing it to happen by whatever means neccesary. This could be by grabbing it in the scruff and lifting it of the floor with a firm NO, or a slap on its fat head with a NO. You do not want to let this continue specially since it will be one hell of a big dog in a few months and trying to fix it then will be a lot harder. Do not be afraid that a slap on the ass will take away its drive, it wont, it will however show it that any negative action from his side gets rewarded with a negative reaction from your side.


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## guilherme sa marques (Jan 27, 2010)

Alice Bezemer said:


> How do you fix this? Why does it always seem so hard to fix? A lot of people are going to jump on this post and say redirect the bite to something else or come up with other solutions which pretty much go around dealing with the problem.
> 
> My suggestion is that you stop allowing it to happen by whatever means neccesary. This could be by grabbing it in the scruff and lifting it of the floor with a firm NO, or a slap on its fat head with a NO. You do not want to let this continue specially since it will be one hell of a big dog in a few months and trying to fix it then will be a lot harder. Do not be afraid that a slap on the ass will take away its drive, it wont, it will however show it that any negative action from his side gets rewarded with a negative reaction from your side.


Thank you for the advice, i alreadt grab him And lift hImfrom the floor, i do tell him a firm no but its nothing for him...i think he as no pain since i grab him in very ways AMD he dont care , is nothing for him.. Maybe with prong collar? Isn't he too young for prong copiar? Thnks


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

](*,)


guilherme sa marques said:


> Thank you for the advice, i alreadt grab him And lift hImfrom the floor, i do tell him a firm no but its nothing for him...i think he as no pain since i grab him in very ways AMD he dont care , is nothing for him.. Maybe with prong collar? Isn't he too young for prong copiar? Thnks


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Alice is absolutely correct

please go back and REread your introduction...
you said this about dogs : "they teach me more than i teach them"

but now your post is a great example of why this is the wrong type of attitude :razz:


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## guilherme sa marques (Jan 27, 2010)

rick smith said:


> Alice is absolutely correct
> 
> please go back and REread your introduction...
> you said this about dogs : "they teach me more than i teach them"
> ...


thnks for slap me..i was trying to get help..
thnk you alice.. To the other well...thnk for your help (not), im sorry i haven't the same experience as you!


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

guilherme sa marques said:


> Thank you for the advice, i alreadt grab him And lift hImfrom the floor, i do tell him a firm no but its nothing for him...i think he as no pain since i grab him in very ways AMD he dont care , is nothing for him.. Maybe with prong collar? Isn't he too young for prong copiar? Thnks


Prong collar on a 3.5 month old pup? Okay, let me ignore you just made that suggestion yourself and you will understand how wrong in many ways that suggestion was of you! 

It is called being persistant and consistant Guilherme... Just because the first time he didn't seem to care of gave no clue doesn't mean he wont get the idea. Its not as much about pain as being able to punish in the right moment. Be consistant and do not be afraid to be a bit forceful about it. A CC is a pretty stout dog, it can handle a bit of rough loving.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

also...
no, i don't think he is biting you and your wife because you are playing tug, but i do think you need to teach him some tug rules too. 

what are the rules you use now for the tug game ?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

guilherme sa marques said:


> thnks for slap me..i was trying to get help..
> thnk you alice.. To the other well...thnk for your help (not), im sorry i haven't the same experience as you!


guiherme..

the search function is your friend... there has to be a least 25 threads on here concerning this matter, lots of good info in those.


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## guilherme sa marques (Jan 27, 2010)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Prong collar on a 3.5 month old pup? Okay, let me ignore you just made that suggestion yourself and you will understand how wrong in many ways that suggestion was of you!
> 
> It is called being persistant and consistant Guilherme... Just because the first time he didn't seem to care of gave no clue doesn't mean he wont get the idea. Its not as much about pain as being able to punish in the right moment. Be consistant and do not be afraid to be a bit forceful about it. A CC is a pretty stout dog, it can handle a bit of rough loving.


Alice..i´m learning...wasn´t a suggestion...it was a question 
Thanks for your help


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## guilherme sa marques (Jan 27, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> guiherme..
> 
> the search function is your friend... there has to be a least 25 threads on here concerning this matter, lots of good info in those.


I had read some other threads too but thank you for your advice and help


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

guilherme sa marques said:


> I had read some other threads too but thank you for your advice and help


I just got bit by my puppy yesterday too...12 months old 80 lbs


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

So has Slo Mo gotten on her big girl bloomers?
BTW I like her name. (I had a rooster called "Schlomo" when I lived on an atoll in the middle of the Pacific.)
Post pix of wound/bruises or her happy face?
Honestly, I hope it wasn't a bad bite.


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## Kevin Rowland (Jun 29, 2013)

Listen to Alice. I had a similar issue and the same advice. It works and no effect on prey drive. You don't allow the pup to bite you.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

if it's not being effective your not holding the pup up long enough. Even if it stops it still needs to say uncle. It may fight and scream before it gets to that point and if you let it back on all four feet before it totally relaxes it's body then the pup wins again. 
Ya gotta get a handle on it befoer the beast is to big to lift and/or has developed the idea that your on the bottom rung. Then you have a war instead of just another obnoxious pup.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i had a reason for asking what your tug rules were. it wasn't just because i was curious. i was looking for a problem area i might be able to help you with

review the post :
1. you have a big enuff problem with the dog biting you and your wife that it caused you to ask for help
2. you received a suggestion
3. you said you had already tried that suggestion and it didn't stop the biting

so what do you do now ?

i see at least three options :
1. do nothing - maybe the dog will learn all by itself and stop biting you and your wife
2. when he bites, quickly apply more forceful corrections than what you have using, which will either work, or kill drive, or start a fight
(because i DO believe you can kill drive with bad corrections)
3. try and prevent the dog from biting you and your wife in the first place

#1 - stupid way, imo
#2 - can be effective but you need some level of experience to know how much of a correction to apply and how to time it properly, etc
#3 - can also work and can be accomplished by doing many other things with your dog in addition to when it is biting and playing tug. but if tugs are used, you should have strict rules and most people don't make rules until it is too late and a problem has already started

i said playing tug doesn't cause a dog to bite people like you have described. but my idea of "playing tug" are probably different from yours and that's why i asked what your rules are
- i DO think handling tugs the wrong way can cause a dog to be more inclined to bite people
- much easier to help if you shoot a video, especially since english is not your first language and you seem to think your are not explaining things well by writing


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> So has Slo Mo gotten on her big girl bloomers?
> BTW I like her name. (I had a rooster called "Schlomo" when I lived on an atoll in the middle of the Pacific.)
> Post pix of wound/bruises or her happy face?
> Honestly, I hope it wasn't a bad bite.


Forget those pics, I wanna see pics of the rooster and Atoll!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

here's some more guesses, so please tell me which ones are right or wrong...
1. even tho you say the pup is high drive compared to other mastiffs, i doubt that your pup is a man eater, and the biting is probably not from people aggression
2. he might be biting to try and start a play session which might mean he is pushy
3. he might be biting because he doesn't know when the play stops
4. he might be biting because his teeth are not done maturing and he likes chewing stuff
5 he might be biting because you allowed a little bit of it when he was very small and thought it was a good sign that was showing his drive potential
6. when you tug you have a nice long session and then let him have the tug and run off, but he rarely gives it up when you stop tugging
7. he will bite/chew/nip or get mouthy with other people that play with him

please add your own observations if you won't be posting a video


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Rick, please explain (if possible), how you teach/deal with these two:

_2. he might be biting to try and start a play session which might mean he is pushy
3. he might be biting because he doesn't know when the play stops_

Matt, I will look for epic atoll pix. No pix of the rooster, sadly. When I moved there, I was given a pig and a hen. I didn't kill and cook the hen (nor the pig). By the time I left, I had two pigs and about 40 free-ranging hens (all descended from that original hen). There was a rocking big farewell feast on the night before my departure. Everything got caught, killed, shared and eaten. Everyone went to sleep full and happy.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Matt, I will look for epic atoll pix. No pix of the rooster, sadly. When I moved there, I was given a pig and a hen. I didn't kill and cook the hen (nor the pig). By the time I left, I had two pigs and about 40 free-ranging hens (all descended from that original hen). There was a rocking big farewell feast on the night before my departure. Everything got caught, killed, shared and eaten. Everyone went to sleep full and happy.


two pigs and 40 hens is A LOT of meat--you must have had quite the gala!

i think it's awesome that you gave a meal as your send-off!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

First and foremost I'd like to thank everyone for the OP regarding help with his problem. Reading this thread reminds me of how far I've come, and how far I need to go. You guys are actually taking the time to help him whilst I sit here and bang my head against the wall. Methinks my job prevents me from having such patience. Hopefully I would recieve the same help should I ever try to go to a higher level instead of someone at that level just banging their head against the wall.](*,)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> First and foremost I'd like to thank everyone for the OP regarding help with his problem. Reading this thread reminds me of how far I've come, and how far I need to go. You guys are actually taking the time to help him whilst I sit here and bang my head against the wall. Methinks my job prevents me from having such patience. Hopefully I would recieve the same help should I ever try to go to a higher level instead of someone at that level just banging their head against the wall.](*,)



Why do you think we're both short on hair? :grin: :wink:
I do agree about folks getting help today instead of just beating them up. 
I wanted to be a cop some 40 yrs ago. The wife said "with your temper I'll leave if you do". 
Been happily married for going on 47 yrs now. :lol: :wink:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Prong collar on a 3.5 month old pup? Okay, let me ignore you just made that suggestion yourself and you will understand how wrong in many ways that suggestion was of you!
> 
> It is called being persistant and consistant Guilherme... Just because the first time he didn't seem to care of gave no clue doesn't mean he wont get the idea. Its not as much about pain as being able to punish in the right moment. Be consistant and do not be afraid to be a bit forceful about it. A CC is a pretty stout dog, it can handle a bit of rough loving.


Hi Alice

As ever I agree with your post - but what is a CC? And "pretty stout" is what I would call a plump handler!

In my experience the Molosser breeds are pretty easy to make obedient (if one so wishes :smile: ) and there is the clue to the matter. 

A lot of people buy a pup, bring it home and think "oh! let's let him get settled first to his new home and then we will see about laying down the law".

Two, three weeks later, the pup has sussed out his new home, has sussed out his new owners and, unfortunately, in a lot of cases has found them lacking.

There is one message I would like to inscribe in stone:

WHEN YOU LET (CARRY) YOUR NEW PUP OVER THE THRESHOLD BE SURE YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE CARRYING A POTENTIAL TERRORIST INTO YOUR HOME. 

Sure, the new pup needs care and attention but, at 8 weeks, this little "would be Monster" has probably wrapped you round his little claws.

All you have to do is forget his sweet little face and remember that he is capable of sussing you out quicker than you can h/him.


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## guilherme sa marques (Jan 27, 2010)

rick smith said:


> here's some more guesses, so please tell me which ones are right or wrong...
> 1. even tho you say the pup is high drive compared to other mastiffs, i doubt that your pup is a man eater, and the biting is probably not from people aggression
> 2. he might be biting to try and start a play session which might mean he is pushy
> 3. he might be biting because he doesn't know when the play stops
> ...


My dog as a really good drive compared to other bullmastiffs here in my country, yes. Althought cannot be compared to GSD drives or malinois as you understand. He is not a man eater, he bites and i think is quite normal as the theeth are growing and puppys tend to bite the other puppys in them pack, Im grabbing him and say a firm NO, when he bites my hand and when i say NO i do normaly pick a toy and he starts to bite the toy so im eliminate the hand chewing.
I just want you to understand this, Im learning and learning and learning... I thought to ask this questions here where i can get more experienced advices i never said i was using prong collar cause im not, for several reasons and one of them is because i think, well, i know that my dog hasn´t the proper foundation work to do some hard corrections.

What i was really asking in this Topic was, If i do not allow him to bite my hands, legs or what so ever with a Firm NO and grabbing him can his Prey drive dies a little?

One more time i say sorry for my English and i do know that somethimes i can´t express or tell what i tend to.

Im not punishing my puppy or so...im informing of what is the best way to get my point


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

my pup is starting to put the bite on me and I think it's because of #2 on Rick's list.

A quiet, firm 'no' wasn't getting the job done. Last time he did it I did what dogs do and turned back on him catching a ear and neck fold and pinched both sharp and hard then dumped him off me. He yipped and gave me the Hurt/Betrayed Look. I gave him my back and then 30 seconds - a minute later, gave him some positive attention that I wasn't holding a grudge and so we were friends again. But that one rapid, sharp correction did a lot more then saying "no" and giving him a toy. It didn't hurt him per say but I got the point across in a manner that there was no mistaking the transgression with what I was correcting for. Right now, if I was your dog and wanted a toy, all I would need to do is bite you and you give me one. What are you teaching him or what is the dog learning? Just remember that what you think you are correcting for may not necessarily be what the dog understands it to be for. 

My advice is once the firm, gentle method isn't getting the impression across you really have to be a bit nasty and leave no room for doubt that he's done wrong and it happens at the exact moment of the problem.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Hi Alice
> 
> As ever I agree with your post - but what is a CC? And "pretty stout" is what I would call a plump handler!
> 
> ...



+1
If the pup needs time to "settle in" it just may not be a pup for me. I want the "potential terrorist".


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

what Sarah just said - read it again "G"

"G"....stop worrying about your english
it's simple and clear and we understand

about this :
"when he bites my hand and when i say NO i do normaly pick a toy and he starts to bite the toy so im eliminate the hand chewing."

are you eliminating the hand chewing ?? maybe, maybe not (i would need a video of this to know for sure)

but if the pup comes up to you and starts biting, and you then get him to stop biting you by giving him a toy to bite, you might also be teaching him that biting you will get him a toy....


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

rick smith said:


> what Sarah just said - read it again "G"
> 
> "G"....stop worrying about your english
> it's simple and clear and we understand
> ...



Agreed and that's a fine line I never have to cross. I just don't redirect. 
Although I'm a big believer in reward based motivational training, house manners can be dealt with a bit of corrections.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Agreed and that's a fine line I never have to cross. I just don't redirect.
> Although I'm a big believer in reward based motivational training, house manners can be dealt with a bit of corrections.


 
Me too!!


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Why do you think we're both short on hair? :grin: :wink:
> I do agree about folks getting help today instead of just beating them up.
> I wanted to be a cop some 40 yrs ago. The wife said "with your temper I'll leave if you do".
> Been happily married for going on 47 yrs now. :lol: :wink:


I have most of my hair and I'm a very helpful MOFO!

Should I come out of forced retirement to be a cop?

Actually, I really wanted to be a astronaut!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"Actually, I really wanted to be a astronaut!:smile:"


Would I be wrong in thinking you've been pretty high before without a space ship? :twisted: :wink:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> "Actually, I really wanted to be a astronaut!:smile:"
> 
> 
> Would I be wrong in thinking you've been pretty high before without a space ship? :twisted: :wink:


Yeah, but with a space ship maybe I could do it without crash landing so often!


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## Janet Hammond (Jan 6, 2014)

guilherme sa marques said:


> Hello again,
> 
> As you may know i have a male Bullmastiff and yes im happy because he as good drive (most of bullmastiff not), he doesn´t like very much the ball...he prefers the tug.
> I play tug with him with comands of course (he as 3 and half months ) and he loves it, the problem is that he bites me and my wife (he bites my wife harder), once he bite my finger and wanted to carry to is bed ](*,)](*,)
> ...


You apparently wanted a dog with drive and you got it. Now you don't want to mess up his drive. Have you researched trainers in your area? While you search for a trainer who admires drive and who can directly assess what is going on, you might want to move from direct confrontation (ruff shaking etc.) to establishing indirect dominance. Some ways to do this are:

Get a crate and use it when you can not watch him or he needs a time out. 

Provide exercise, but some puppies become hyper with too much. Figure out how much works best for your puppy

Start basic obedience. At this age clicker training would be a good choice. Tricks are a fun activity and not so serious

Stop tug of war, chasing toys (balls, soft stuffed toys, toys with treats in them, etc.) is better. Returning them to owner is best.

Have your puppy sit for all petting

Feed meals with puppy sitting before you put bowl down, no leaving a bowl down for nibbling

Sit puppy for all good things

Do not allowed on furniture

Sit puppy before going through a door

You and your wife go through door first, eat first, etc. 

You should post some photos of your lovely puppy!


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## guilherme sa marques (Jan 27, 2010)

Here is my Love and pride


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

guilherme sa marques said:


> Here is my Love and pride


he is tremendous! what a great looking boy!


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## Janet Hammond (Jan 6, 2014)

He is beautiful! He looks intelligent.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

"G"
beautiful puppy pic; most puppies look so cute 

you came here with a problem and got a lot of advice. hope you take some of it and fix this problem because i know of quite a few dog owners who loved their puppies but didn't teach them the necessary foundation and later changed their mind and got rid of them. this is not just my opinion. i speak from my own experience

of COURSE you will NEVER think this will happen to your puppy 
- but i'll bet he doesn't look as cute when he is hanging on to your wife's arm and your wife is in pain.

it's your choice that you don't want to continue the discussion and instead post a pic of your pride and joy, but try and accept the reality of your situation and send some progress reports along with the pictures

good luck


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## guilherme sa marques (Jan 27, 2010)

rick smith said:


> "G"
> beautiful puppy pic; most puppies look so cute
> 
> you came here with a problem and got a lot of advice. hope you take some of it and fix this problem because i know of quite a few dog owners who loved their puppies but didn't teach them the necessary foundation and later changed their mind and got rid of them. this is not just my opinion. i speak from my own experience
> ...


Thank you Rick, have you seen my PM?
Im not a writer type of guy and i prefer read all the info you had put in here! Don´t get me wrong but somethimes is dificult to me trying to write in english what im thinking in Portuguese 8-[8-[

Im not a newbie in all of this "training world" but i do know nothing, if you understand me....
I had search for the last year os the two last years about dog technics and problems and some other kind of research. Here is a little bit difficult to have a "master" to teach you for several reasons like most of them try to train a dog with some oldschool punishment training. Others are more curious then dog trainers and for last i don´t have a dog school that i trust near me! they are more likely money maker no mather how type of guys and i don´t like this!
I had done some certified courses, some cientific and other practical type of courses..and seminars off course like spanish Professional police dogs and mondioring trainers (Can search for Toni Tur) or Bart Bellon (e-collar type of guy) and others.
I have offcourse some reading and video "school" like Dick Staal, Michael Ellis, Ed frawley (i don´t like him very much...he looks like a punishment type of dog curious), Pat Nolan (E-collar) and some others like Ivan or Koehler. They are like my "teachers".
And now i have my first dog as a student and a friend (had others but just pets).

But on topic...
Rick the problem is now fixed! the solution was consistency and keep correcting him without force offcourse (i have to be more pacient :razz: )

Now he just knows the simple rules like he sit when im going to feed him, he sits when he goes out or in and im always the first to enter and some other rules. He know the sit, down and when he wants he know he recall to (very stubborn) :mrgreen:

I just want to say to everybody that i admire a lot all of you guys who know much more than me and are here in this forum that i found to teach more things, help and advice me. As i said i do know nothing about this world and im always learning! Don´t get me wrong when i say at what age we can introduce the prong collar to correction, is just curiousity as i really don´t know.
Im making a foundation work with my dog and later when he knows what i want from him and know the comands is time for corrections and maybe im gonna use e-collar (more vantages then disavantages).

With all of that i hope you had understand maybe a little of what i tryed to ask or write to you...im just a simple guy trying to learn more and more.

Regards


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## Janet Hammond (Jan 6, 2014)

guilherme sa marques said:


> But on topic...
> Rick the problem is now fixed! the solution was consistency and keep correcting him without force offcourse (i have to be more pacient :razz: )
> 
> Now he just knows the simple rules like he sit when im going to feed him, he sits when he goes out or in and im always the first to enter and some other rules. He know the sit, down and when he wants he know he recall to (very stubborn) :mrgreen:


Guilherme,

It sounds like you have been too busy doing a great job and I am glad you took the time to post some photos of your handsome boy. Brazil is well known for their formidable dogs and I am surprised that you are not able to find a good trainer. Right now, I am reading Your Dog is Your Mirror, which provides an alternate way to visualize "hard" dogs. While I don't know that the scientific support is as clear as the author does, I find the ideas interesting and accurate. 

I prefer to work with "hard" dogs because they are impressive and can recover more easily from handler error, but I now have a soft dog and need to be a more exact, careful trainer. 

Whatever the dog, they each have something to teach me.

You would be LOLROTF if I were trying to write Portuguese!


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Janet Hammond said:


> Guilherme,
> 
> It sounds like you have been too busy doing a great job and I am glad you took the time to post some photos of your handsome boy. Brazil is well known for their formidable dogs and I am surprised that you are not able to find a good trainer. Right now, I am reading Your Dog is Your Mirror, which provides an alternate way to visualize "hard" dogs. While I don't know that the scientific support is as clear as the author does, I find the ideas interesting and accurate.
> 
> ...


FYI, Portuguese is the official language from Portugal and Brazil. It derives from Latin/Ancient Rome (not Mexico, not Puerto Rico, not Guatemala, not Colombia, not Venezuela, and so on). Just because someone speaks Portuguese, do not assume he/she is Brazilian. It's the same as saying english speaking people are all from the UK. 

I am Portuguese, speak portuguese and was born in Portugal. Same as Guilherme. 

A little history lesson: Brazil speaks portuguese, because it is a former portuguese colony. 

Hope that is clearer now. 

Best regards


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## Janet Hammond (Jan 6, 2014)

Tiago Fontes said:


> FYI, Portuguese is the official language from Portugal and Brazil. It derives from Latin/Ancient Rome (not Mexico, not Puerto Rico, not Guatemala, not Colombia, not Venezuela, and so on). Just because someone speaks Portuguese, do not assume he/she is Brazilian. It's the same as saying english speaking people are all from the UK.
> 
> I am Portuguese, speak portuguese and was born in Portugal. Same as Guilherme.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I am not sure why I assumed Brazil. Sorry Guilherme!


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Janet Hammond said:


> Thank you. I am not sure why I assumed Brazil. Sorry Guilherme!


No problem.


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