# Playing pup



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

My pup likes to grab an object and prance away and loves when I chase him. It gives him exercise, some bonding / imprinting, and keeps him from biting my ankles and pants!

I have really no interest in him learning the retreive, so I figured this might be an OK activity. I'm wondering if this creates an image of him as the leader, and not me, though...

Any thoughts? Is this maybe not a good thing to do?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I wouldn't do it simply because its annoying as hell when a pup plays keep away. Wait till he is 5 months old and turns into a bonehead that doesn't come back.

As for the retrieve, even informal, you will really really enjoy it when your dog is older and brings the ball back to you and places it on your lap/in your hand every single time wanting to keep playing fetch, instead of walking away and dropping the ball accross the yard expecting you to chase after it.

Chasing a puppy around is a bad idea from all standpoints IMO  I find the habbits it forms incredibly annoying. Yasko likes doing it thinking it's a fun game, I walk away and toss kibble into his crate. Its like a Yasko-magnet, wherever he is however far away he is, he charges into his crate, and he loses his toy and I don't play again.

Tiko's a lil smarter, he figured out that getting the kibble means the crate closes, but usually the benefits of eating outweigh the negatives of being stuck in the crate :lol:


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Good thoughts Mike. No more keep away.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

> I wouldn't do it simply because its annoying as hell when a pup plays keep away. Wait till he is 5 months old and turns into a bonehead that doesn't come back.
> 
> As for the retrieve, even informal, you will really really enjoy it when your dog is older and brings the ball back to you and places it on your lap/in your hand every single time wanting to keep playing fetch, instead of walking away and dropping the ball accross the yard expecting you to chase after it.


Yup!

With my pup, I play tug with her gently, let her win, grab the tug while she still has it, play tug gently, let her win... I NEVER* take the toy away. She has never tried to play keep away.

* Ok - so when she picks up baby toys and delivers them to my hand, I do take them away in exchange for food, a dog toy or play.

The other thing you can do is, "If you don't bring it to me, game over." This worked for my dogs. They deliver toys to my hand. I had train do this when I was too pregnant to reach the ground! :lol:


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

THat's the course I'll take then. No return = no more play. You just leave the toy on the ground and go back later to get, I assume.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Keepaway places more importance on the toy then on interaction WITH you.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Good point


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Words to live by. Nothing more annoying than a 9 month old dog that gets away from you then stays away "just because he can" or because he wants to play "keep away". They can make you feel especially stupid because they let you get "almost close enough" then dance away. You might be able to tell from this post I have had unfortunate experience with particular game. For whatever reason, I didn't try to play this game with any of my previous GSDs, oh but I decided to play it with this one. stupid, REALLY stupid.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Cujo was really good at 4.5 months old, walk into the front yard off leash to pee while I waited at the door, came right back. By 6 months old he was a lil jackass that decided to run off down all my neighbors lawns playing keep away, while a neighbor was yelling at me about leashing my dog not understanding that its not easy to catch a 6 month old GSD pup that can outrun you.

Lots of compulsion fixed that later. He's still an ass, but he doesn't play keep away anymore!


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

I'm getting the picture... glad I asked now rather than in 4 months!


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

I will restate what I mentioned before, you have powerful Border Patrol Genetics at hand. If you teach him the retreive motivationally, it will great excersize and fun. If you continue down this road, what you are teaching and rewarding is POSSESSION. Combine that with these particular genetics, and you may end up with guarding objects too. You need to show him clearly, the fun comes from you, and ENDS with you.

Once you attention and motivation for the toy, he will no longer notice folks on his walks and bark and hackle at them. This way you don't have to over socialize your dog to people, you desensitize him to people and create a focus on you for the toy.

Bryan


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Bryan,

Thanks for the thoughts. Are you in the "don't pet my pup" camp? Just going off your "desensitize him to people" comment.

Could you clarify: "Once you attention and motivation for the toy..." You mean have him focus drive on a toy? A toy that I have and control?

Thanks,


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Ted White said:


> Bryan,
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts. Are you in the "don't pet my pup" camp? Just going off your "desensitize him to people" comment.
> 
> ...



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Sure I will share what little I know 

First I decide what my goals are, working or pet. Then of course I do the best I can with the genetics I have in front of me. When I have a strong pup I want attention on me ONLY. I start with food for the name. He hears his name from me, and I reward with food. This gets the dog used to focusing on me. I can then start doing this in busier areas promoting the desensitizing the people, animals, noises etc.. 

Once I have that amazing spin of the head for hearing his name, I will use it at various times, like when people are approaching. Soon enough I will start using a rag or ball on a string to replace the food for this excersize.

I will purposely play tug rag in a very busy place, or ball on the string. Very short sessions, mixed with some food reward games. 

That is just a few things I do, to try and bring more focus on me, to make myself more exciting than other people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now if I want a pet, I may have strangers feed and pet my puppy.

My point about a working puppy is, I have had pups that were genetic social butterflies, just could not meet enough people or children, tails waggin all the time.

Those pups are very hard to do work with. Affection can be very rewarding to some dogs, more than hunting for things, which concerns me.

My goal is indifference to strangers.

Bryan
www.k9cs.org


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ted, you have a couple of more weeks with this pup where it will try it's darndest to keep you in it's sights. At this age they do not want to be left alone. Take advantage of that. If you have a place(field/woods/park/etc) that you can walk the pup off lead, do so. When it gets a bit distracted, step behind a tree or some other object. When the pup realizes your gone it will stress just a bit. Step out and call the pups name. Reward when it gets to you. This keeps the dog focused on you. 
In a few more weeks it will start more of an independent phase in its life and will do more investigating. Get a strong leadership bond going before it gets to this point. The whole training/imprinting process will benifit.
I've done this as long as I can remember and have never had a dog, that I raised from a pup, refused to come when I call. So very simple and so very easy!


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Great words Bryan and Bob. I have done a lot with tiny chicken jerkey treats and name calling. He's pretty good about it. I'd say about 50% of the time when I call he comes racing. The other 50% it's like he's wondering if I'm going to put him in the crate or leave the deck when he'd rather stay on the deck. But some coaxing and hand action (the hand with jerkey) gets him to come along.

I didn't know about the anxiety situation. Makes sense. I'll capitalize on that more heavily over the next few weeks.

Thanks


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Creating Crate aversion?

ahhh, a little trick here. I'm often asked how do you have suck happily crated dogs. Not a big secret, it's where they eat big raw beef bones with loads of meat still on it. They don't realize I'm leaving and can't wait to hit the back of the crate. 

I keep crates in almost every room of my house and especially in the truck. They have a purpose, desire and most importantly a huge anticipation full of enthusiasm to crate up. 

you are treating your puppy in the yard, then punishing with a crate. I build up to the crate, even if I don't have a bone for him, I make sure there is always chicken jerky left to crate him up with. They say "Crate up"

It is good for them to rest after eating a few ounces of meat, then potty them and then quickly another small treat to the back of the crate.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

I love it! Thanks. Some others have had similar thoughts about the ol' bone in the crate game. I'll get some soup bones this week. 

Some freeze the bone in between knawing sessions.


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