# Kumpi Dog Food



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

What do you guys think of this food?
http://www.kumpi.com/

The entire "fleet" of NY State Police K9s is apparently fed this stuff.

Ingredients:
Corn Meal, Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols [a source of Vitamin E] and Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Lamb Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Chicken Liver Meal, Egg Product, Dried Cheese, Rice Flour, Dried Kelp Meal, Flax Seed Meal, Cod Liver Oil, Yeast Culture, Linoleic Acid, Lecithin, Salt, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Amino Acid Complex, Sodium Bicarbonate, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Prayer, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Chloride, Manganese Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite, Rosemary Extract, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Ascorbic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B-6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Calcium Iodate, Yucca Schidigera Extract

What do you think of their article regarding the use of corn in dog food?
http://www.kumpi.com/cornphobia.pdf


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Konnie Hein said:


> What do you guys think of this food?
> http://www.kumpi.com/
> 
> The entire "fleet" of NY State Police K9s is apparently fed this stuff.
> ...


If cornmeal is so digestible, then why do I see whole grains of cornmeal in my dog's stool when fed a corn-containing food?

I do agree with the last statement - grain free is not carb free. I feed a grain free kibble and I'm pissed that there is potato and pea flour in it. But until I get back to raw, it's a heck of a lot better than other foods.

But back to the food - it looks a cheap base, with tiny amounts of additives that give it a better appearance. Also looks like adog would like it, and like it would be a less "gaseous" food than some others!

What the heck is "egg product"? I've seen whole egss, raw eggs, dried eggs, dried egg yolk on labels, but never "egg product." I'm thinking shells - which is not necessarily a bad thing - but curious that it is so far up in the list. ETA: FDA defines "egg product" as liquid, dried or frozen egg.

Menhaden fish meal: "Menhaden contain large amounts of highly unsaturated fatty acids that are prone to rapid oxidation. They have a reputation for rapid spoilage. Protein content of whole menhaden is generally within the range of 15-17%, while the edible flesh averages about 18-19% protein. Menhaden are not suitable for the standard fresh or frozen fillet markets because of their bone content and sceptibility to lipid oxidation. Successful food products must be processed in a manner to eliminate these problems. Appropriate product forms include canned products, to soften bones and protect against oxidation, and surimi, with mechanical separation of bones and removal of oxidation catalysts by washing.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

This is big in Colorado, the dogs that I have seen on it look just fine.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> This is big in Colorado, the dogs that I have seen on it look just fine.


You're not a dog food snob like me. :lol: Didn't you feed BilJac or something like that?!


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Konnie Hein said:


> What do you guys think of this food?
> http://www.kumpi.com/
> 
> The entire "fleet" of NY State Police K9s is apparently fed this stuff.
> ...


... Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, *Prayer*, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, ...

WTF? is that some sick joke? :lol:


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Corn meal as the main ingredient doesn't impress me. It's very high in omega 6, which is an inflammatory and is also present in high amounts in grain-fed meats. Omega 3's are more important. Flaxseed is also high in omega 6. 

I've seen worse foods, for sure. I wouldn't feed or recommend this particular food, though. 

I don't know _what_ to say about 'prayer'!! It's not mentioned on their ingredient analysis page :lol:


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Although I'm no expert on food, every dry food I've ever seen appears to mimic in a Mcdonalds variety of what a raw/fresh food diet contains.

Aside from conveniance and cost in some areas, what is the advantage ? fast foods are the leading cause of fat people and dogs, not to mention the general health problems.


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Agreed, Gerry. However, I'm really asking about this food in order to get information for a friend who is basically forced to feed his PSD this stuff. He doesn't like the food and I told him I'd compile some info for him. 

I think he should be feeding his dog a higher protein and fat diet (this one is 22% protein, 13% fat) based on what I've read in veterinary texts, but the corn doesn't sound like a great ingredient either. Despite what the Kumpi site says about corn, a lot of other information I've found doesn't support the use of it in dog food, especially for working dogs.

Of course, I also think the chances of his department switching what they feed their dogs is slim to none, but I thought I'd help him out.


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

I'm also now wondering if the raw diet I feed my dogs is severely deficient because I'm apparently neglecting to add one key ingredient....PRAYER. 

That's just about the nuttiest thing I've ever seen. Aren't there standards as to what is included on the list of ingredients?? And, is she praying that dogs don't fall over dead after eating this stuff???


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Konnie Hein said:


> I think he should be feeding his dog a higher protein and fat diet (this one is 22% protein, 13% fat) based on what I've read in veterinary texts, but the corn doesn't sound like a great ingredient either. Despite what the Kumpi site says about corn, a lot of other information I've found doesn't support the use of it in dog food, especially for working dogs.


Raw food diets rarely go over 20% protein, I believe you have to add a vegetable source to get higher, which is just numbers and doesn't mean much in terms of nutrition. A person can add as much fat as they need.

No matter what you do with your dog, I don't think nutrition is the best area to try to save a few bucks or time.

I've tried the very best in dry foods and they just don't compare in the long run, even when I didn't have a clue about feeding raw, not that I am totally sure about what I feed now.


----------



## Sam Trinh (Jul 31, 2006)

Konnie Hein said:


> Agreed, Gerry. However, I'm really asking about this food in order to get information for a friend who is basically forced to feed his PSD this stuff. He doesn't like the food and I told him I'd compile some info for him.


It is not as if anyone besides the handler watches the dog eat it, right? While it would not be in the general spirit of the rules, maybe he could the dog plenty of raw 'treats' and cut the kibble back to say, 1/2 a cup in the morning.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Raw food diets rarely go over 20% protein, I believe you have to add a vegetable source to get higher, which is just numbers and doesn't mean much in terms of nutrition. A person can add as much fat as they need.


That's not exactly true. When you're comparing raw diets to commercial diets, it's better to compare them to canned rather than kibble. Raw diets are closer to canned diets in their protein content because of the natural amount of water in fresh foods versus extruded kibble. For example, EVO 95% venison is 13% protein and 71.56% moisture by guaranteed analysis when it's 95% meat. The conversion to dry matter would look like as follows:

100% total - 71.56% moisture = 28.44% dry stuff. 

So if you take the 13% that's protein and convert it to dry matter so it's similar to dry food, this is what it looks like:

13% total protein/28% total dry matter = *46% protein by dry matter* for the canned food.

If you take a similar high protein dry food, like EVO Red Meat, which is 42.42% protein and 7.5% by guaranteed analysis, this is what you get: 

100% total - 7.5% moisture = 92.5% total dry matter

42.42% total protein/92.5% total dry matter = *46% protein by dry matter* for the dry food. 

So even though the canned is almost all meat (similar to raw) and the other is kibble, they have virtually identical amounts of protein by dry matter. Hopefully that makes sense!


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Ok Maren I stand corrected, I've never fed canned foods so I wouldn't know.

That's the interesting thing about nutrition, there is always something to learn, Thanks for the info.


----------



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Agreed, Gerry. However, I'm really asking about this food in order to get information for a friend who is basically forced to feed his PSD this stuff. He doesn't like the food and I told him I'd compile some info for him.
> I suppose he could always pay for his own food and get a higher quality kibble, if it's allowed


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Not sure if he's allowed to feed something else. I'm sure he could if he paid for it out of his own pocket. Certainly nobody is watching him feed the dog, but he likes to follow the rules, ya know? 

I think I'd add raw to the diet too and already suggested that to my friend.

Thanks for the thoughts so far!


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Raw food diets rarely go over 20% protein, I believe you have to add a vegetable source to get higher, which is just numbers and doesn't mean much in terms of nutrition. A person can add as much fat as they need.


You need to calculate the DRY WEIGHT to get an accurate comparison between raw and kibble.

When you do this, RMB's are 40 - 60% protein.

ETA - sorry Maren - I didn't finish reading the thread before posting!


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> ...It's very high in omega 6, which is an inflammatory and is also present in high amounts in grain-fed meats. Omega 3's are more important.


The reason that 3s are more important is strictly a modern skewing of the 6-3 ratio.

Inflammation is a necessary healing response. 6s do indeed promote the formation of hormones that favor inflammation. It's the balance that's the problem. 3s favor hormones that help to keep inflammation from running amok.

Neither 6s nor 3s = bad or good on its own. The 6:3 balance is the issue, and the modern diet is woefully unbalanced, having gone from what might've been 1:1 for most of history to 15:1 or 20:1 now (and yes, grain-fed slaughter animals are a huge component).


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie, that's exactly what I said.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Connie, that's exactly what I said.


Well, actually, I read it as "Omega 3s are more important."



Kristen Cabe said:


> ... Omega 3's are more important.


They're not. We have to have both, and it's the balance that's crucial.

I know that you know that. And I know that you understand that it's the ratio that's so important.

I'm just clarifying (I hope) a possible misconception that we (and dogs) need 3s and not 6s. 

But of course, that prayer ingredient probably balances the ratio anyway.


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Understood. I did kind of word it wrong, didn't I. What I meant was that, because O6's are typically high in the meats that raw feeders feed (unless it's free range/grass fed), as well as in kibble, supplementing with O3's is more important. Thanks for clarifying. :wink:


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Understood. I did kind of word it wrong, didn't I. What I meant was that, because O6's are typically high in the meats that raw feeders feed (unless it's free range/grass fed), as well as in kibble, supplementing with O3's is more important. Thanks for clarifying. :wink:


'Zackly. It kind of makes me crazy when some commercial foods or supplements rave about containing "Omega 6s." ](*,)


----------

