# Widget



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni,

I was wondering how the healing is going on Widget's surgery site? And is he eating, sleeping OK?


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2006)

I never see him sleep, Connie! He's doing really well, and he'll be so flattered to know that a whole thread was opened just for him :lol: . He is acting like his old self. I feel really guilty that I didn't see that he was being too quiet. I thought it was because of the neutering, but now I think he was in pain  . He's going to GA with me to pick up another dog in 10 days, and the vet says flying won't be a problem; basically, he's fixed!  I can't wait to get him off steroids; he is acting like such a meathead (see other topic after the ferret comment). :roll:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> I never see him sleep, Connie! He's doing really well, and he'll be so flattered to know that a whole thread was opened just for him :lol: . He is acting like his old self. I feel really guilty that I didn't see that he was being too quiet. I thought it was because of the neutering, but now I think he was in pain.....


No guilt. I learned long long ago that it is in their natures to endure, and that they will often wait until LONG past the point we humans would, before they vocalize.

I've had almost all adult (or senior) dogs. Now I \"scan\" them regularly. I feel them all over, look for wounds, bumps and lumps, sensitive areas, etc. I also sniff their ears and mouths and look into their ears, between their toes, and so on. Not only do I think it's useful -- I also find it a good experience with my dog.

This would not have been likely to work in Widgie's case. It's kind of a nice barometer, though, in general. 

I'm so glad he's doing great! Again, that was FAST diagnosing and fast action.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2006)

Thanks for the support! He's just soooo healthy normally (sounds odd to say about an epileptic, but it's true) that I feel like I should've seen something, but then again, every time I thought he was acting funny I'd say something to him and he'd jump right out of bed like normal, and he was still walking MILES w/me and my Mom...  

I don't take any chances on this kind of stuff. I can't imagine other than money, why someone would wait until the dog is dragging their legs and has no bladder/bowel control to perform surgery :?: . I am NOT one to over-medicate, operate, etc., but in this case, it just puzzles me why anyone would do differently. I'm far from rich; I just didn't consider it an optional expense.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

You getting another dog Jenni??


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jenni, I'm so with you on that. It's heartbreaking to see a dog so far gone nothing can be done, especially with people that have the $$ but don't think dogs are worth spending it on GRRRRRR


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Jenni, I'm so with you on that. It's heartbreaking to see a dog so far gone nothing can be done, especially with people that have the $$ but don't think dogs are worth spending it on GRRRRRR


Me, too!

I also think how terribly sad -- like devastating -- it must be NOT to have the $$ when the dog could be treated, but only expensively.

I have a pretty tight budget, but I am SO lucky to have a long-term relationship with my vet, and the agreement that whatever needs to be done will be done and I'll eventually pay it off. It didn't get back to zero after my extremely health-challenged Luna died in 11/04 until maybe June of '05. But she had good life quality, and me at her side for the end, the day it started to turn bad (when she refused food).

Jenni......Did you say you're getting a new dog?


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2006)

<Sigh> Yes, I'm getting another dog if all goes well. Widge and I are leaving on April 6 to go pick up a Sch3,IPO3, personal protection trained GSD. I hope I like him when I get there; I doubt my deposit is refundable :lol:! I've wanted a PPD for a while, but had problems finding one that wouldn't butt heads with Widge....he can be, uh, difficult. Supposedly this dog tolerates small dogs/cats and has always been a house dog, so it should be a fairly easy transition. Caleb is my biggest concern. He is such a dominant SOB.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> <Sigh> Yes, I'm getting another dog if all goes well. Widge and I are leaving on April 6 to go pick up a Sch3,IPO3, personal protection trained GSD. I hope I like him when I get there; I doubt my deposit is refundable :lol:! I've wanted a PPD for a while, but had problems finding one that wouldn't butt heads with Widge....he can be, uh, difficult. Supposedly this dog tolerates small dogs/cats and has always been a house dog, so it should be a fairly easy transition. Caleb is my biggest concern. He is such a dominant SOB.


Well, IMO, step #1 is good........that they are meeting away from Widgie's home territory. Could Caleb come too?


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2006)

I really can't afford to take Caleb too (ask Widget why). It's $300 to put him on the plane, and with the expenses of bringing the other one back, it's well over $1000 to bring Widge AND Caleb. I would do it, though, if I thought it would help. Caleb is not dog aggressive in the least; he's dominant. There will be fights if the newbie does not submit (which he may not; he's six years old). Caleb is still very puppyish, though, and several older dogs have cut him quite a bit of slack and ignored his attempts to establish rank. It doesn't make any difference who I bring home, unless it's a female. That's why I just plan on separating them and rotating them until I see how they do. If I don't feed them near each other (which I don't do with the other GSD in the house) it should be ok. Caleb is not a fighter; he's just an a$$, but I've never seen him after his domination attempts have failed, either. Other dogs usually submit immediately, and all is well and playtime continues. These were the problems between Caleb and Widge; Widge was not about to give up his rank for this puppy who was all the sudden huge (Widge is of the mindset that size doesn't matter), and we had some major issues; they've worked it out where they mostly ignore each other except for the occasional cheap shot :wink: .


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> ..... Caleb is not dog aggressive in the least; he's dominant. There will be fights if the newbie does not submit (which he may not; he's six years old). .......


I hope others will jump in here. 

I believe that the intro is really important, and I have \"guided\" an intro for two people whose dogs I helped train.

Both times the dogs were introduced in neutral territory (my yard), and while they were meeting, another family member (not the primary handler) was setting up the new crate, the new dishes, etc., so they were \"just there\" when the dogs came home. The old and new dog were taken on a walk together, one on each side of the handler, before going home. They became familiar with each other w/o having to \"face off.\" (Last week I saw Cesar Millan do something similar, which made me feel pretty good!  )

The meeting was no-excitement, no fuss, no emotion.

We may have just lucked out, but it worked out both times. In one case the \"old\" dog dominated (casually) and in one it was the opposite.

Ed Frawley has a new podcast about this very topic! I haven't heard it yet, but his other podcasts are really good.

Here's the podcast: http://www.leerburg.com/dogtrainingpodcasts.htm

(Scroll down to the dog-meeting one.)


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes Jenni,

Maybe you should ask Ed his opinion on the matter.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2006)

I wouldn't mind if others jumped in here too, but I am not going to think I'm home free just b/c they don't fight the first day. Caleb is no less dominant outside the house-just less territorial. He's positively vicious if he's crated and another dog walks by. Let him out, and he's very playful. He just doesn't like anyone to have the upper hand. He does not seem to \"hold grudges\"-he gets his point across and moves on to the next thing quickly, except where Widget is concerned, but that is more Widget's doing than his. I really think I'll just separate them; they're too big for me to be able to break up a fight.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> I wouldn't mind if others jumped in here too, but I am not going to think I'm home free just b/c they don't fight the first day.......


Oh, no, I definitely didn't mean to imply that, and my experience with dog-meet-new-dog is very limited outside my own home.

In my house, the pack leader (me) doesn't allow dog-aggression, period. I understand that this is no indication of some great trainer/leader abilities, and that I have been lucky. I hope my experiences so far will bolster me when/if I ever DO have a difficult new addition. Also, my max is two, and I understand that there is a huuuuuge difference between two and three in terms of pack structure.

P.S. In reading back, I see that you weren't asking for advice  ; you were commenting. I'm working on *not* being the big sister (oldest of seven siblings), but it does pop up a lot.


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

This was a huge problem with Jaeger and Dominic. It still is, actually, but to a much lesser degree. Jaeger isn't dog aggressive, either - just dominant, like Caleb. The only time he gets upset is if another dog challenges his rank. As long as he feels that's secure, however, another dog can bite at his heels, growl, posture...whatever...and he doesn't care.

When he and Dom were first introduced, it was fine. They were fine the entire car ride home from PA. Once we got home, though, it was a totally different story. And not because Dom challenged Jaeger for the alpha male position - obviously not at 9 weeks old - but because Jaeger became very jealous of us giving any attention at ALL to Dom. He doesn't mind us giving attention to Bruno (our Corgi) or Buffy (our Pomeranian), but they were already in the family when we brought him home...

Over the past few weeks, we've had to monitor Jaeger closely. He's bitten Dom pretty solidly a couple of times, drawing a little blood once.

Every time, he's been disciplined, which has only pissed him off exponentially...

Tonight was the first breakthrough. Dom and Jaeger ACTUALLY played...pretty nicely, too. Dom started it by going over to Jaeger, who was laying down, and crawling on top of his head...and then laying down on it. It was a very odd gesture from a puppy who has been very cautious around Jaeger for a number of days now. I was quite nervous, but nothing happened. Jaeger sniffed him and they started playing. I made Jaeger stay in a down position, but they rolled around with each other, play fought, growled, showed their teeth, barked... I honestly think Jaeger had fun with Dom for the very first time. So YAY!!

I guess what I'm trying to say in my very long post (I'm good at those guys, sorry...) is that even if Caleb and this new boy don't get along right away, give them some time... I bet they get used to each other (unless this other dog is just downright aggressive).


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2006)

Greg! ARGH! Do we ALWAYS have to post at exactly the same time?? :x 

Connie, Yeah, butt out! Kidding :lol: . I wasn't meaning to imply I DIDN'T want advice; I just am preparing for the worst. 8) Since Caleb isn't truly dog-aggressive, I'm just working on not allowing him to be an a$$. He's just flat-out not allowed to be a dominant jerk in my house. What Alicia says is SO true though; corrections at the beginning of a \"scuffle\" always escalate it; as soon as I make the move to stop his attack, he goes ballistic. I end up inevitably putting him in a headlock, because he's so strong, it's the only way I can control him. That sounds horrible, I know, so I should clarify that even when he has gone after Widget, he has never injured him; he just gives him a VERY stern talking to! 8)


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> Yes Jenni,
> 
> Maybe you should ask Ed his opinion on the matter.


 Greg, i'll tell you what, over the years i've learned a lot from Ed's site, and made a few friends along the way. It's an exellent source for information and it's helped me to learn to live with 3 gsd's with no problems. You won't find me bashing his site. Jenni should post her plan on adding a 6yr old ppd to the mix on the leerburg site, why not?


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2006)

Al, I agree with you about the site being very useful.... It's a great site, mostly because of the unbiased people on it-not just the people selling DVDs. If I have a major issue that can't be solved, I'll look into it, but I predict lots of \"Buy Ed's DVD on _______\". :lol: Gee, thanks. Never would've thought about that on my own...

I don't really need a whole bunch of opinions on how I should do this, I don't think. I'd inevitably get one that would be just ridiculous, and my temper makes me try to limit my intake of ignorance. I don't know how many different words there are for separation :lol: . The guy I'm getting him from is not exactly a beginner...and besides the main reason I'm getting THIS dog is because of his temperament w/other animals. 

Maybe I'm nuts, but I just plan to rotate their \"with me\" time in the house, unless hell freezes over and Caleb becomes submissive in the next 10 days...I really am not hoping for a miracle here.


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Well Al,

That was more of an inside joke between Jenni and myself than it was bashing Ed.

Ill try to keep my remarks about Leerburg to a minimum.I know there is a ton of useful info there.I wont hide the fact that I dont like Ed's closed minded mentality though.Some of the things he tells people is just crazy.Thats all Ill say on the matter.

Greg


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jen, good to hear Widget is doing better. I've never seen any dog get depressed about being nuetered. WOW! That's just WRONG, not to get depressed over that!  :wink:


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks for caring! He's a tough little SOB, I tell ya. He's looking forward to his vacation to Georgia, since he's a little short on fur these days :lol: . He only had morphine the day after, and he is totally his old self...being rather lively and making me quite paranoid 8) . Luckily, he's down to the steroid every other day for just a couple more days, so hopefully he'll stop the meathead trash-talking and the tantrums :roll: . Connie never should've told him the ladies like the \"dangerous\" look; he's been talking like Tony Montana for a week  .


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Thanks for caring! He's a tough little SOB, I tell ya. He's looking forward to his vacation to Georgia, since he's a little short on fur these days :lol: . He only had morphine the day after, and he is totally his old self...being rather lively and making me quite paranoid 8) . Luckily, he's down to the steroid every other day for just a couple more days, so hopefully he'll stop the meathead trash-talking and the tantrums :roll: . Connie never should've told him the ladies like the \"dangerous\" look; he's been talking like Tony Montana for a week  .


HAHAHAHAHA!

Hey.......Widgie has the longest forum here!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Thanks for caring! He's a tough little SOB, I tell ya. He's looking forward to his vacation to Georgia, since he's a little short on fur these days :lol: . He only had morphine the day after, and he is totally his old self...being rather lively and making me quite paranoid 8) . Luckily, he's down to the steroid every other day for just a couple more days, so hopefully he'll stop the meathead trash-talking and the tantrums :roll: . Connie never should've told him the ladies like the \"dangerous\" look; he's been talking like Tony Montana for a week  .


HAHAHAHAHA!

Hey.......Widgie has the longest thread here!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Good to hear that Widget is doing ok. :wink:


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