# Considering an APBT



## Al Lewis (Feb 3, 2009)

OK, I am considering adding an APBT to my home (along with my Rott). I will train him in SCH, OB and PPD as well. Currently I am looking at York Kennels - any advice, thoughts and of course, oh so funny comments?


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## Chris Ciampi (Dec 10, 2008)

You can add him to your home. They are great dogs. Easy to train and love to please. I don't know much about where you are getting him/her from and also...the more educated people can help out with this one but ABPT's have not worked out to well for Sch and PPD. I don't know why so much but that seems to be what I have read.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f23/i-want-hippo-christmas-4194/


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Al, if you are buying your APBT for work, that york kennels is a mistake IMO. All I see are that they are registered with the UKC. The females are more type, but some of the males are hippos and are just simply not "real APBTs". There are a lot of good Bully people on this forum. I also know of a excellent working APBT breeder I can refer you to. PM me and I'll give you his info. 

Also look at this site: http://www.workingpitbull.com/


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Al Lewis said:


> OK, I am considering adding an APBT to my home (along with my Rott). I will train him in SCH, OB and PPD as well. Currently I am looking at York Kennels - any advice, thoughts and of course, oh so funny comments?


I would not go with York as they are bred for conformation. Finding an APBT for PPD is ...well... :lol:

I love APBT's - they are my breed (addiction) of choice. But if you want to well in your sport of choice, choose a dog that can work well. For instance, is your TD familiar with the behavior patterns of APBTs? Some training (particularly foundation training) needs to be modified.

In general, I have found that APBTs in bitework don't deal well with pressure or take a lot of agitation to be turned on to the decoy. Neither is good for PPD.

The club I train with (sporatically) does have some APBTs, Bulldogs in it. The APBTs fall into the two categories above. 

I've only seen one APBT work well. It was SchH and on video. 

If you are serious about the sport, this is a time to look at green dogs that you can evaluate in the work. Don't risk a puppy because your chances of buying an APBT pup that ACTUALLY works is very low.


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

i would second the recommendations on (against) york kennels. if you're looking for a staf/pitbull that has the head and the heart for SCHH, look for those staf/pit breeders producing dogs that already work in one capacity or another. start talking to those people, and they will be able to help you hone your search.


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## Kay Halvorson (Jan 22, 2009)

I know of a girl that has a beautiful Lars line APBT that she does SCH with. She just bought a male that she is going to work in this area too. Have you looked at the T-N-T lines.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Al Lewis said:


> OK, I am considering adding an APBT to my home (along with my Rott). I will train him in SCH, OB and PPD as well. Currently I am looking at York Kennels - any advice, thoughts and of course, oh so funny comments?


Hey Al, are you that far along in your Rotts training that working two dogs won't be a little too much?


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

The APBT and AB will always have a soft spot in my heart. I was raised with APBT and GSD. If I was looking for a APBT to do sport work. I would contact Leri Hanson, I liked her old male Goose Sch 3.

Try these links... Leri Hanson, Howard burgess and Ron Marshall.

Best of luck with your search.

Mario

http://www.ca-k9services.com/


http://performancek9dutchshepherds.20fr.com/index.html


www.soundcanine.com


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## Al Lewis (Feb 3, 2009)

Hey Steve - 

I am not far along with my Rott, but have a flexible enough schedule (I work from home) where working two dogs is not an issue.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Al Lewis said:


> Hey Steve -
> 
> I am not far along with my Rott, but have a flexible enough schedule (I work from home) where working two dogs is not an issue.


Good luck Al. Hope it goes well.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I also recommend Leri Hanson, Howard Burgess and Ron Marshall as well as Chris Fraize. 

Stay away from York. They are show bred dogs that more than likely won't do what you would need. 

I sincerely DOUBT that you will find a breeder let alone trainer that is going to help you PP train an APBT. This breed is NOT made for that. They USAULLY don't do well with it. 

Also, look at the OFRN dogs and their pedigrees as they are workers. They usaully have drive out the wazoo. That's not saying all do BUT I prefer the OFRN lines myself. 

Oh, are you prepared to Crate and Rotate IF the 2 dogs don't get along. As an APBT owner there is a LARGE possibility that it will be Dog Agressive. It happens. Training helps manage it but it will always be there. What about BSL in your area? Are you renting? Are you planning on moving in the next 10 years? These are all questions that should be answered BEFORE you get an APBT. They are NOT the breed for everyone. BUT getting the right one from a good breeder is priceless. Also make sure that health testing is done as HD is becoming rather common. Be aware that structure is a BIG thing with them as well because they do blow ligaments doing Schutzhund if their structure is off and putting more pressure on their legs. My APBT has 2 blown ACLs, one in each leg as well as a blown cruciate in one, with ehr surgery is not an option as there is nothing take from without creating more problems later on. 

Good Luck!!! 

Courtney


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

_As Courtney said- "What about BSL in your area? Are you renting? Are you planning on moving in the next 10 years?"

_what about your home owner's insurance- you may not be able to obtain any with a APBT...which is in my opinion ridiculous, but is a realistic issue. 

When I was involved with PSA years ago, Big Mike in Florida, had the coolest little Pit...Rusty...that little dog was awesome and didn't care how big a decoy was... later on Mike trained him to be a pet therapy dog...
good luck


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## Al Lewis (Feb 3, 2009)

Thanks for the great input. Yes, I have considered the potential of dog aggressiveness, as well as the home-owners insurance - great points though. This is not a decision I am making lightly. I am simply uneducated about the bloodlines of APBT, as there appears to be more show lines than I first thought and MANY sites I have visited have either been shut down (some for dog fighting) or seem to give a fine display of "frankenstein" breeding - YIKES! What I like about the APBT (from my research) is that they were born to be a working dog, and in spite of the obstacles, have remained in large part true to that calling - like my beloved Rottweilers. Both breeds face not only bad breeders/breeding programs, but an unfair public bias. When I lived in California, I got turned down for rental places many times because I had two Rotts. I try hard to be an ambassador of the Rottweiler and would like to be one for the APBT as well. 

Having said that, I want a working dog, but as we all know it is a crap shoot to a degree. Regardless, the APBT I get will be trained in OB, possibly agility and will be titled, even if only a CD, CGC, or what have you as I believe this gives a great example to others. 

Do not consider this post closed, again, the more I learn about working bloodlines, the better, so please recommend bloodlines, breeders, forums, and the like.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Well, since you still have NOT ran away...lol lol lol Most people would've. I'll give you a little insight into what *I* know about lines. 

My little bitch is scatterbred as all hell. Staff lines on the top, OFRN(Old Family Red Nose) lines on the bottom etc. She is highly driven yet content to lay around the house. She is a dog that needs to do something though as she is destructive if she isn't entertained. 

I personally like the old Family Red Nose lines BUT they DO TEND to be more dog aggressive than other lines. Have you looked at Game-dog.com, they have a lot of well bred dogs on there and knowledgable people. 

Also, I know a TON of people that have rescued APBT's that are EXCELLING in the sport. You really need a dog with a ton of prey drive and solid nerves for Schutzhund the problem is finding one that has both. 

Courtney


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> You really need a dog with a ton of prey drive and solid nerves for Schutzhund the problem is finding one that has both.


actually, i don't think that it would be as hard as one might think. what should be hard to find is a staf/pitbull that has good defense drive or will work in defense. i have one, but that dog is a rarity (as it should be) and that trait makes that individual less than ideal (for that breed) temperament-wise. 

i would recommend contacting julie kinsey on this board - she's got some good working dogs herself, and has been around these dogs for along time, and will probably know most anyone with dogs like you're looking for.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

If you're just getting a dog for sport, why would it *need* to be worked in defense at all? Ruh roh...I went there! :mrgreen:


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I spent 3 years looking for an APBT. I got a dog with great temperament, ugly (but sound) sturcture.

I was specifically looking for a dog for bitework. I was thinking FR. I choose a litter that was triple-line bred off of a stud that was out of a bitch and stud that were euthanized for human aggression. Her dad is a PPD dog with real-life bites. I've watched her mom do protection work as well.

I took her out of the litter at 6 weeks old in order to do some intense training to attempt to prevent dog-aggression. She's nearly two and does not express any more dog-aggression than an average dog. (Notice I said express. The genetic potential is all there and could come out.)

She has nice drive and grips. But she's the typical APBT - doesn't take pressure from the decoy. She's got a love-me-love-me attitude. Which is the perfect temperament for an APBT. 

You'll have no problem finding and APBT for OB. You might be able to find one for SchH. But don't expect to get a PPD. 

If a person comes through a bark and hold from an APBT, you don't need a biting dog. You need a gun.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

kristin tresidder said:


> actually, i don't think that it would be as hard as one might think. what should be hard to find is a staf/pitbull that has good defense drive or will work in defense. i have one, but that dog is a rarity (as it should be) and that trait makes that individual less than ideal (for that breed) temperament-wise.
> 
> i would recommend contacting julie kinsey on this board - she's got some good working dogs herself, and has been around these dogs for along time, and will probably know most anyone with dogs like you're looking for.



My little bitch is also a bit defense driven and I hate it. She is also battling fear based tempermant problems as well. 

Julie K is a GREAT resource and has a ton of knowledge. She does great training and is truly a remarkable person for the breed and new owners. I missed the chance to meet her and am still kicking myself for it, maybe one day! I have talked to her on the phone and she is a great lady who you can ask anything and she will probably have an answer for you about this breed. 

Courtney


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## Christen Adkins (Nov 27, 2006)

> I spent 3 years looking for an APBT. I got a dog with great temperament, ugly (but sound) sturcture.


Took me three years as well to find a bulldog I liked. Be prepared to look for awhile, Al. I'm not saying that to discourage you, just to prepare you! 



> Do not consider this post closed, again, the more I learn about working bloodlines, the better, so please recommend bloodlines, breeders, forums, and the like.


Join the Working Pit Bull Terrier Club of America.


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## Al Lewis (Feb 3, 2009)

OK, I am prepared to look for awhile, no big hurry as I am currently training my Rott. Perhaps I need to reconsider the training goals. I have been wanting to further explore agility and more obedience anyway, as it appears that Schutzhund (and obviously not PPD) might go against the grain for an APBT. I can live with that. I do require a high drive dog for training, however, that does not appear to be a trait lacking in APBTs! I will keep looking!


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## Guest (May 30, 2009)

The great thing about APBTs is that there are probably 20 good drivey ones rotting in cages at your local shelter. Badrap.org/rescue also has some good one's if you are in the Bay area. If you are prepared to deal with potential DA then welcome to the best dogs on the planet. I'd try to rescue one though. The benefits of getting an older dog are probably spoken of ad nauseum here. Besides, the last thing this breed needs is more people breeding them, so why encourage it by buying one? Responsible breeders or not, the APBT could benefit from a 5-10 year worldwide moratorium on breeding.


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## Erin Sullivan (Jul 24, 2007)

You can probably find a few folks (and a bit of interesting discussion) at the Working Pit Bull Forum. It's linked on the main page of the Working Pit Bull Terrier Club of America. www.wpbtca.com

You can probably ask around on that board about lines and whatnot . . . and Ron, Leri, Howard, and others do post there. 

There are some nice dogs working out there right now, but I think half the battle is finding the right dog; the other half is finding someone who knows how to work a pit bull in protection sports. 

I have a dog that I'm working in schutzhund right now, he came from god only knows where. Landed in my lap after a series of failed homes. The dog works well in protection and can take a lot of pressure . . . but he's kind of a crappy obedience dog. We actually failed our SCH I last month because it was hot as hell and he just wasn't in the mood. He was really flat, really miserable, and really stressed . . . so we passed our protection and our tracking, but frigging obedience, which should be the easiest thing, was a train wreck! :roll: 

BTW, don't know where you're from, but the WPBTCA is having it's 2009 nationals in Flint, Mich. this year. If that's anywhere convenient for you, you could come out and meet some of the working pit bull folks and see some solid working pit bulls in action!


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

John Turri in california was doing some good stuff with working pit bulls


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