# Bark and Hold issue



## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

Currently I'm working with a Malinois that screams at the B&H. His handler says that at home, the dog barks, but when we try working him on the field, he can only scream. The best I've gotten from him is a sort of yap/scream. 

Any advice or ideas to change the scream to a bark?
I've tried several "tricks" and methods to accomplish this and can't get more than the yap/scream. 

Thanks,
Mike


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

Mike Spivey said:


> Currently I'm working with a Malinois that screams at the B&H. His handler says that at home, the dog barks, but when we try working him on the field, he can only scream. The best I've gotten from him is a sort of yap/scream.
> 
> Any advice or ideas to change the scream to a bark?
> I've tried several "tricks" and methods to accomplish this and can't get more than the yap/scream.
> ...


Here come the questions. How was the dog taught the bark and hold, how was the foundation laid? Is the dog ever rewarded with the bite when he's screaming and not barking? Does the dog scream during any other exercises? Of course the dog barks at home, they always do :razz:. What have you tried so far?


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## Jason Sidener (Nov 8, 2006)

How old is the dog?


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Let him Scream if he is a good dog!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I would love it if my dog screamed like a Banshee. I hate my Mali's bark as it sounds like a seal....ugh! how embarassing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxTMO7qBZdU


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> I would love it if my dog screamed like a Banshee. I hate my Mali's bark as it sounds like a seal....ugh! how embarassing.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxTMO7qBZdU


 
That's not that bad. I've heard a few that I swear the owner lets smoke cigars and drink whiskey.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Adam Swilling said:


> That's not that bad. I've heard a few that I swear the owner lets smoke cigars and drink whiskey.


he gets much worse but I don't have video of that.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Spivey said:


> Currently I'm working with a Malinois that screams at the B&H. His handler says that at home, the dog barks, but when we try working him on the field, he can only scream. The best I've gotten from him is a sort of yap/scream.
> 
> Any advice or ideas to change the scream to a bark?
> I've tried several "tricks" and methods to accomplish this and can't get more than the yap/scream.
> ...


Video would be good to see. Tried any thing spooky/unsettling. Dog's prolly locked up in prey doesn't make for strong guard bark especially Mals. Just guessing with out video


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I'd look at 2 things. What drive is the dog in, if it's prey like Mike suggested you might try something unsettling. But also, you might try lowering the dogs drive. I have a female Malinois who screams sometimes when she's in a very high state of drive. More then once someone has freaked thinking she's seriously injured, that or someone sat on the e-collar transmitter and she's being fried on high. She can also do some great barking, I have a video somewhere of her doing over 2 minutes of continuous barking at 7 months old. But she needs to be in an 90% drive state, not 100%.

This is probably what the owner is seeing at home, the dog is in drive, but more relaxed, and therefore can bark easier.


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## Adam Swilling (Feb 12, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I'd look at 2 things. What drive is the dog in, if it's prey like Mike suggested you might try something unsettling. But also, you might try lowering the dogs drive. I have a female Malinois who screams sometimes when she's in a very high state of drive. More then once someone has freaked thinking she's seriously injured, that or someone sat on the e-collar transmitter and she's being fried on high. She can also do some great barking, I have a video somewhere of her doing over 2 minutes of continuous barking at 7 months old. But she needs to be in an 90% drive state, not 100%.
> 
> This is probably what the owner is seeing at home, the dog is in drive, but more relaxed, and therefore can bark easier.


That's my thinking as well Kadi. The dog is in such a high gear and frustrated that it's just screaming. And if any type of reward (bite) is being given while it's screaming that behaviour is just being re-inforced. I agree, the dog needs a curve ball thrown.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike Spivey said:


> Currently I'm working with a Malinois that screams at the B&H. His handler says that at home, the dog barks, but when we try working him on the field, he can only scream. The best I've gotten from him is a sort of yap/scream.
> 
> Any advice or ideas to change the scream to a bark?
> I've tried several "tricks" and methods to accomplish this and can't get more than the yap/scream.
> ...


 Mike you getting some form of verbals from the dog in the B&H? Have you tried having the decoy stand out front of the blind and the dog several feet away? If the dog barks, back the decoy into the blind a few steps, then a few more and then all the way in. Make sure you know if the dog is stronger in prey or defense, this may change how it views the decoy and the verbals you are getting. We have a GSD that yodels as he "barks," and is all ready for action. As asked before, how old???


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## Ashley Allstun (Aug 8, 2009)

I had a similar problem with my dog (this was before a formal bark and hold was taught), and he would just lunge and go crazy at the end of the leash, but would never give us a real bark. I had a bark command for him, so we ended up using that and some food to get a bark out of him (finally!). The way we started then was to put him on a long line, and each good bark we got out of him he'd get to go toward the helper, and finally get a bite. Once he figured out that a real bark got him a bite, he had no problem barking anymore. May not be the "normal" way to do it, but it worked quite well. He has a nice bark and hold now.


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks guys. 
The dog is a police dog, and while I agree that a bad guy thinking a velociraptor is about to eat him for lunch is not a bad thing, the officer wants a bark out of him. I would love to give you a video to show you what we've done but he does not want one taken for public view. If this changes I will definately share one with you guys as again, a picture is worth a thousand words and video is priceless. 

We have tried working him through a door, enticing him to bark and giving him a reward for barking. But the best we can get is a whimper. He can find the decoy easy enough and indicates by scratching at the door and whining. I've tried tapping on the door and teasing him through it to get him up and barking but he won't. 

I've put him in a small outdoor pen and worked him in both fight/defense and prey to see what might work best and figure out what drive he is in when he loses his mind. The intent being that if I can get him to bark, I'll reward him with the bite. Whine or scream. Sometimes the yapping scream. I've tried to work that into a bark, but no joy. 

I've posted him out and done the same thing. Worked him up close to put him into defense or fight and then backed away. Scream only. I've had the handler hold him and done the same thing. Again, scream only. 
I've worked him outside coming into a room and inside coming out of the room to give him a sense of ownership and defending his space.

I have played peek a boo games where I've made a threat and then jumped behind a door or obstacle out of sight. This invokes a scream and a yap. If I get the yap, at this point in time, I've rewarded it with the bite. So in this case I think he gets both prey and fight. 

I've tried working at a distance, doing the same, creating a threat and then popping behind an obstacle to see if it would be similar to the situation at home where he'll bark at the neighbors dog or at someone at the door. No joy. 

When he is in defense, his ears are forward,tail up, he keeps eye contact, does not submit to contact and threat. He stays on the sleeve or suit and will not back down if posted out and threatened. He stays on the sleeve till outed and is cocked and ready for another. No shrinking flower this dog. He's a tough guy. 

Right now I have the officer doing his homework and working a command and reward into every opportunity the dog barks to get the dog to associate the two. I'm hoping this will eventually pay off. When I hear that he can bark on command as part of the "trick" then I think I'll try and put that into a work situation and hope it carries over. Right now, its pretty impressive that while he's holding the dog and making his announcements the dog is working himself up into a full scream and is frantic enough that any bad guy hearing this is bound to get a deficating in public charge added to his rap sheet.

I think this is a case of the dog is overpowered by prey drive and I need a way to cap that and bring out his defense more. I could be wrong but its just my assumption. I'm at a loss and don't want to do more damage than good.


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## Mike Spivey (Jan 1, 2010)

Sorry, forgot to add, the dog is 2 years old. And, I have tried tieing him out next to a barking dog to see if that would help him out but he just continues to pull on the line, pace, whine, scream or just be quiet.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

He barks at home, right? Try starting there and progress away from the home if he continues to bark. It may require a bark at the door, then a few feet from the door, then the sidewalk, then the street etc etc etc.

Territorial barking and his prey lock whining are two different things. You may never be able to fix it. As Kyle previously stated....as long as he holds and alerts, who cares.

I know you say the dog is tough, but can it be stress? Just a consideration.


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