# Behaviour shaping device K-9 BSD ..



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

http://www.k-9bsd.com/ 

Am thinking of getting one don't really have a need for odor training at this point but may in the future so that points towards the BSD 2. But I have used the BSD 2 and find the lack of range a bit of a pain in the arse for the other stuff I do. I can only afford one or the other. 

People who use them do you have any preferences between the 2 models. Or even some special uses for either model if you could list those I'd love to hear them.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

I have the bsd 1 and its very limited on position. It has to be nearly straight up or the ball falls out. I'd go with the 2.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

julie allen said:


> I have the bsd 1 and its very limited on position. It has to be nearly straight up or the ball falls out. I'd go with the 2.


When you mean nearly straight up you can't really angle it less than 90o? What about the other rewards that they say they the BSD1 will deliver tug, kong, towels etc? Is it the same issue? 

Just for clarification this is the BSD-1, same model you have?


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

G look up the Cannonball


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

If somebody made one of these for $200 I bet they would corner the market. ... just so darned expensive.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Get a cheap...or is that cheep bird launcher from Cabellas and rig it with a simple remote operated solenoid from Radio Shack. That's what we sometimes used for the send out training at the club I belonged to.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks but no one has answered my questions yet. 

I've looked at the Cannonball it is way way to expensive 470 euro without shipping and duties and can only launch a specific sized ball. I've looked at bird launchers from Zinger Winger, Dogtra et al and by the time it is said and done they are more expensive than the BSD. 

The BSD can launch kongs, tugs, towels, balls, food, etc. Can be hidden in grass or hung in a blind or used on the other side of a jump. The BSD 2 can be used for these things as well as detection boxes just it doesn't have the range as the BSD 1. 

I'd be using more for reward for jumps, send aways, retrieves, initial blind search training. As a secondary use I'd be interested in using it for detection training as well. 

So I am hoping for some advice on the 2 models of the BSD for these tasks. 

I'm not interested in chopping up a R/C car and rolling my own device or cobbling anything together from parts. 

The price of the BSD has come down it is 1/2 the price of the cannonball from Denmark. So I buy a BSD or get another bite suit for my club.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Bob, I am not imagining how this bird launcher works. It looks like a cage that "releases" the bird so it can fly? Totally lost and the one guy who put up a youtube video of how to build something......it got removed from youtube and he has not been on the forum for half a year.

Has anyone tried THIS thing? The design looks like it would work and it would be easy enough to get dummy tubes and load with other balls as distracters or to hide the unit. Downside is drop only but I could live with that. A lot more affordable.

https://kraftwerkk9.com/store/the-original-helfer/the-original-helfer/


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## angelo sintubin (Jul 21, 2013)

Maybee this is a option.
http://www.k9shop.nl/dogsport-and-training-nl/others-nl/balschieter-en-afstandsbediening-nl.html


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

I can't bring myself to pay $700 for a tennis ball launcher when I built potato guns in high school for $10.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> When you mean nearly straight up you can't really angle it less than 90o? What about the other rewards that they say they the BSD1 will deliver tug, kong, towels etc? Is it the same issue?
> 
> Just for clarification this is the BSD-1, same model you have?



Sorry I'm completely backwards, I have the bsd2.

I've worked with the bsd1, and they do shoot towels, some other toys, depending on shape.

I've never tested the range on either. I can test it on the bsd 2 if you'd like.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Geoff,
I've used the BSD2 quite a bit. The ones we used with the Ray Allen metal boxes severely limited the range of the remote down to maybe 15 feet away. It barely launches a kong and a regular tennis ball only goes up about 3 feet maybe. If you want to pay that much for a glorified rewarding system then that's up to you. Our department paid for ours so I have no complaint but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a tool with IMO limited use. It works well for it's intended purpose as long as the trainer does his part. A good imagination will expand its' uses so I guess it's all in how bad you want one. Being as you want to use it for the stated reasons, range may be a deal killer for you.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Has anyone used this ball dropper like the one from Kraftwerk? In some ways I like the lack of a forceful ejection which can cause the dog to back up. It should be easy to set up blanks as distracters .........


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Has anyone used this ball dropper like the one from Kraftwerk? In some ways I like the lack of a forceful ejection which can cause the dog to back up. It should be easy to set up blanks as distracters .........


The Kraftwerk one looks nice a ball dropper would be fine to use in teaching the blinds. Not so much for a Ringsport long jump or send away though. The send away it is about the visual or lack of which I like as in trial you will not have a silver tube hanging on a pole at the end of the field. I do like a ball dropper as I can see many uses especially when working alone. (which I do a lot)



Howard Knauf said:


> I've used the BSD2 quite a bit. The ones we used with the Ray Allen metal boxes severely limited the range of the remote down to maybe 15 feet away. It barely launches a kong and a regular tennis ball only goes up about 3 feet maybe. If you want to pay that much for a glorified rewarding system then that's up to you. Our department paid for ours so I have no complaint but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a tool with IMO limited use. It works well for it's intended purpose as long as the trainer does his part. A good imagination will expand its' uses so I guess it's all in how bad you want one. Being as you want to use it for the stated reasons, range may be a deal killer for you.


I could see metal boxes killing range on a BSD-2. One of my friends has one and when we used it we were lucky to get 35 feet with the remote. A medium kong I'd get 18" maybe, it still is enough for reward though. I used it a lot when I was training the Ringsport long jump. 

Yeah I don't really need one as I do have other ways to train what I am training. It is on the list of a nice to have for me. It is some of my club members that want it, I still think we need another bite suit! LOL! 



julie allen said:


> I've never tested the range on either. I can test it on the bsd 2 if you'd like.


Thanks Julie I have played with a BSD-2 so I am aware of its range limitations, no need to go out of your way to do that. Appreciate the thought though. 



angelo sintubin said:


> Maybee this is a option.
> http://www.k9shop.nl/dogsport-and-tr...iening-nl.html


They don't really give a decent description in English. What are its capabilities? Have you used it? 



Nancy Jocoy said:


> Bob, I am not imagining how this bird launcher works. It looks like a cage that "releases" the bird so it can fly?


There are a few different bird launchers some do like you describe and can launch live birds but most throw dokken decoys or dummies. Zinger Winger make really nicely engineered launchers here is a video of some in use. http://youtu.be/eVDNJky4R8U

Here is the type you could put a live bird in. http://youtu.be/7uLvTYpkPtc Would throw a dummy too just not as far as the Zinger.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nancy, the Cabella's launcher is pretty basic. It's operated by a pull stiring that is easily rigged up to a simple remote operated solenoid. We weren't looking for distance but that simple 2-3ft pop up in the air can really get a dogs attention on a send out. Give the hand signal and when the dog looks down field, "POP"!
Even on a flat field a simple cloth camo netting makes it fade away. Dogs are much more in tune with movement then blended shapes.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Bob. I see how that may work for the send out. You put the toy on the fabric and the motion makes it pop up?

I am on the other side of things for passive indication. I think it may be real cheap and easy to make a ball dropper with something like this? If I can drop a ball on a string the dog will be happy and run back to me with it for tug

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAR-AUTO-KE...R-LOCK-UNLOCK-ACTUATOR-KIT-GRAY-/390591451524


I think it would only be useful for one actuator as you need the control box. But you could buy another control and box and use the actuators in the kit. Am I on the right track? With both items, I could build and have 2 spare actuators.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-C...606?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c298aa9e6


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Geoff, we sell the cannonball in north america for $600 plus shipping costs.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Bob. I see how that may work for the send out. You put the toy on the fabric and the motion makes it pop up?
> 
> I am on the other side of things for passive indication. I think it may be real cheap and easy to make a ball dropper with something like this? If I can drop a ball on a string the dog will be happy and run back to me with it for tug
> 
> ...



That makes sense. Do you hang it above the "find"? I would make sure that you handle it so none of your scent gets on it. Of course you know that. 
A question I just though of. If it's over the "find" then will the dog start looking up for the click? You might want to train for the click to be a non issue same as critter or food scent at the sight.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> That makes sense. Do you hang it above the "find"? I would make sure that you handle it so none of your scent gets on it. Of course you know that.
> A question I just though of. If it's over the "find" then will the dog start looking up for the click? You might want to train for the click to be a non issue same as critter or food scent at the sight.


Good questions and same would apply to any remote launcher used for detection training. You could not use it 100% nor should you and you would have to use it as a distracter by its own right.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Figured so!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Good questions and same would apply to any remote launcher used for detection training. You could not use it 100% nor should you and you would have to use it as a distracter by its own right.


Yeah like anything you have to proof without the equipment. It's the same in any training. Even if you use a ball or food when training a heel the dog has to do it without the reward. Which is why I like to use random rewards. Any BSD or ball dropper type of product can be used as another random reward. For me the only danger in training with equipment is relying solely on them and not using the biggest tool that the trainer has (his/her brain).


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Chad Byerly said:


> Geoff, we sell the cannonball in north america for $600 plus shipping costs.


Thanks Chad, 

What is the range of the remote reward? I really need 90-100m+. Can it use other ball brands like say a kong ball or chuck-it ultra ball?


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