# "Down-stay" killed his "sit"



## Greg Jensen (Mar 12, 2014)

I feel dumb even asking a question like this, but I introduced a down-stay to my pup 2-3 days ago. The pup is a 7 month old Doberman. He is very use to sit, and to down, and has never had a problem between the two. Since I started the down-stay, he will almost always go to down, and stay, even at a sit command. Also, seems to have 'unlearned' the ability to come out of a down, up into a sit.. 
I've been doing just very simple reward based verbal marker training with treats or a ball as a reward, any advice on helping us sort this out??


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

go back to his sit. get it clear in his mind and don't pound the down stay.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Looks like your dog learned the down well. Unfortunately he may have learned it from something other than the verbal cue. Try and clear up sit and down by doing them both verbally. If you are using reward based training, with hold the reward until he's correct with the one you've said. He wants the food or ball. Let him have it when he's right He'll get it.


Greg Jensen said:


> I feel dumb even asking a question like this, but I introduced a down-stay to my pup 2-3 days ago. The pup is a 7 month old Doberman. He is very use to sit, and to down, and has never had a problem between the two. Since I started the down-stay, he will almost always go to down, and stay, even at a sit command. Also, seems to have 'unlearned' the ability to come out of a down, up into a sit..
> I've been doing just very simple reward based verbal marker training with treats or a ball as a reward, any advice on helping us sort this out??


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Greg Jensen said:


> I feel dumb even asking a question like this, but I introduced a down-stay to my pup 2-3 days ago. The pup is a 7 month old Doberman. He is very use to sit, and to down, and has never had a problem between the two. Since I started the down-stay, he will almost always go to down, and stay, even at a sit command. Also, seems to have 'unlearned' the ability to come out of a down, up into a sit..
> I've been doing just very simple reward based verbal marker training with treats or a ball as a reward, any advice on helping us sort this out??


Hahaha a 7 month old Dobermann!! a nice age for goofy brains!! for sure not a dumb question  you might try working on the down/long down only for a long time just that even in short sessions, do it every where with lot of rewards and no worries about moving too fast or even adding in a sitz, work on that one thing too, good luck and enjoy your Dobermann it all clicks one day and will not take long you do know how special this breed is right?)


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## Greg Jensen (Mar 12, 2014)

^ This is my 4th dobe, I know exactly how special they are!!


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

"Down" is absolute in a dogs world, they typically learn it faster. Just work on the sit, say 8 out of 10 time and 2 out of 10 times work on the down (for now). 

Dog's associate so he knows the sit from where you taught it, meaning your position wrt to him and your body language + tone and his position. Now you are sitting him from down so new association, totally different in dog's mind. 

Teach him command then slowly change the association (command from different position/distance wrt to him). Once he understands verbal only then it will be no problem. It will take up to 6 months so be patient + consistent and increase difficulty.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Following Faisal's advice and don't teach the down from the sit. That creates the opportunity for the dog to anticipate and get ahead of you. 
Teach all behaviors separately then chain them together. 
When the down, sit, and stand are completely understood "individually" then give the commands RANDOMLY so you don't fall into a pattern. 
The sit "sometimes" follows the stand, the stand sometimes follows the the sit. The down "sometimes" follows the stand. etc, etc. 
Proof each behavior before adding another.


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## Larry Krohn (Nov 18, 2010)

Are you using a stay command with the down? If so try not using two commands for the same thing. If you tell him down then stay is understood. Stay in the last command given. No reason to use a stay command. If he breaks a down or any other command then you need to work on that.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Larry Krohn said:


> Are you using a stay command with the down? If so try not using two commands for the same thing. If you tell him down then stay is understood. Stay in the last command given. No reason to use a stay command. If he breaks a down or any other command then you need to work on that.



That's the big difference between Schutzhund and AKC OB. AKC requires a "Stay" command, Schutzhund considers it a second command. and points lost. 
Although I do both I train without the "stay" and pretty much just use the "stay" word as another distraction for the sit or down command in the AKC ring. the word itself means nothing to my dogs. 
I'm with you on the one command is to be followed until a second command or a release is given to the dog.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Use a box to train all three


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