# Tracking.....BS or what???



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I would like to see how many here really think that tracking is of any importance. OR.......Possibly that the Sch 3 tracking is just so stinking easy, in the concern of how old it is, not all the stupid deep nose crap.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

IMO, SchH style tracking is more about the ability of the handler than of the dog. it's not fun to train, and takes a lot of time and patience.

yes, there are dogs that are naturally better at it, but i wouldn't EVER buy a pup based on his father's tracking ability. lol...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I agree with Tim in that tracking is about the ability of the handler, but I disagree about it not being fun! As to whether or not it's important, I don't think it's any more or less important than anything else. It does demonstrate trainabilty & willingness to please. I don't think everything is all about the bite work. 

One thing is for sure, it's a great way to weed out macho newbies who only want to teach a dog to bite!!!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

From a practical standpoint FST is pretty much useless. Could be a good foundation for further scent work (air, trailing) but otherwise it's a discipline of traing, not really tracking.
Having done real scent work (air, trailing, article indication, cadaver, boat) FST is really hard for me to get into.
I enjoy working the track with the dog but starting out with a new dog, placing food in each step is BOOOOOOOOOORRRIIIINNG.
Make a test where my dog has to find someone hidden in a building, woods, etc, as do the real K9 dogs and I'll be a happy camper.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I liked tracking when it was Sunday mornings at 9am. Then "they" decided that we should start grass tracking not just dirt tracking and wanted me to be there by 6, which meant getting up at 5. That happened, uhm.. twice. Now I moved and I don't track at all. Life is wonderful. I will title Lyka when she is 8.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

in honor of mike, i'm officially changing my dog's name to:

Cämo

jeff, you should change your dog's name to:

Büko

i dunno....what do you think Böb?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I was on another board and they were saying that ring type sports are easier because they have no tracking. My point isn't that tracking is silly or nonsense, just that When you have a breed of dog like the Mal that historically does not do tracking, come to a sport like Sch, and do well, that it is not really necessary as a breed test.

I do find tracking to be interesting, and I have found more people that look at tracking to be important than ever before. However, for me, tracking is more about who is doing it than what the dog actually is.

There are people out there that just "get it" and can get any dog to do well in tracking. I also find that these people put a lot more time into it, and have different methods than most, and it shows when the dog trials.

As far as a test of a dogs ability, I do not see a Sch track doing this. it is on the very low end of what a dogs capabilities are.


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

I enjoy tracking as part of the overall training experience with my dog. I've only been doing SchH for a little over a year....maybe tracking will get old????

I like being outdoors with my dog in the morning. In that respect I find tracking to be of importance. If it's "reality" that's being questioned, I'm not sure. I'd guess that the SchH training could be a foundation for "real" work.

I agree that real scent work is where the thrill would be. I've walked behind hunting dogs and it's an awesome experience.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I think there's a similar discussion like this in the working malinois board and the general consensus is about the same...footstep tracking is pretty much useless.

I find it boring myself. My dog likes it but when I have to get up early in the morning just to chase crows off my the food pieces that I nearly broke my back putting down there...well, you get the drift.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lyn, use a length of PVC pipe to drop the food in your tracks. No bending! I'm old! I learn these important things!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Pauline Michels said:


> I enjoy tracking as part of the overall training experience with my dog.


I do too. :smile:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't mind it yet, which reminds me, I need to start Fawkes on it. My difficulty in tracking is because despite 5 years of martial arts training, my balance still sucks. I don't break my back putting food down, but I wobble terribly and am sometimes prone to accidentally stepping off the track especially when trying to keep the foot steps in one single line instead of a natural footstep. My dogs would probably just be better off having someone else lay the track from the get go.  I'll just try the PVC pipe way.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

OK, enjoyment was not really the point I was trying to get across, or even the footstep tracking.

Tim, I agree, and if I could figure out how to make the little marks above his name, I would definately say it adds something.

The point I am making is that tracking is a piss poor thing to have as a test for a dog. Especially "stylized" tracking.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

How much you enjoy something is probably somewhat correlated to how much you think it is a good test of this or that.  I haven't done "real" scent work, so I'll just sit quietly on that subject. :-\"


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> How much you enjoy something is probably somewhat correlated to how much you think it is a good test of this or that.


Nah. Not me. :lol:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I don't think it demonstrates any special ability with regards to the dog, beyond trainability, so in that respect and since it is a breed test, I agree with you. Now with that said, I wonder if that was the point, to show the great ability of the dog to perform a task that requires long periods of concentration while still conforming to the requirements of the handler?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I think tracking is the most fun a person can have with their britches on. I've always found it almost mystical.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David, you've made that comment before. Have you done FST type tracking?
I would agree that REAL tracking is pure enjoyment to watch a dog work a cone, or being in a building, trying to determine "wind current" from an air conditioning unit, dead corners, scenting in water, etc.
Having had the priviledge to be a part of it, tracking in the real world IS something almost mystical! 
I still say FST is boreing, saying that even after I took High Scoring Tracking at our trial. I just don't enjoy any of it except the actual dog on the track. 
Just old and lazy I guess! :lol: 
and I sure as hadies don't wannna try it with my britches off! :lol: :lol:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

ÿ is another way of writing ij in Dutch, but if her name was written Lijka then people would butcher the pronunciation even more since that sound doesn't exist in the English language


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

OK Jeff,

I'm working on a schutzhund 3 track right now with my "low-drive" gsd.

I too -- like tracking (It is an acquired taste)
I have discovered that going from 400 paces to 600 paces on a warm day in dry hay/alfala is having a noteable change in his desire to proceed. aging it up to an hour and a half -- again seeing change.

I know that it might not be a breed standard thing, but it certainly says something about a dog that will do this correctly from 30' away without being forced (at least not on trial day). And then go out and do pretty obedience and powerful bitework.

I have a new found appreciation for the training involved in schutzhund!


lg


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

No sir, i've not done FST. In beginning tracking, with short tracks etc, may resemble FST but it doesn't last long. Tracks could also end up in a building search or a air scent search. We try to build some realism into a track replicating what might actually happen. We may even trail the bloodhound with a GSD and have the decoy run upon being discovered. Or the bloodhound track a subject to a building and the GSD does the building search. Tracking has always fascinated me. Scenarios may start from an abandoned car, with no know direction of travel. It then becomes a, trust your dog, adventure from the beginning.

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I have discovered that going from 400 paces to 600 paces on a warm day in dry hay/alfala is having a noteable change in his desire to proceed.

OK, that is pretty sad. I had one dog (actually bitch) that was like that, but she was weird. 4-600 paces isn't even one lap around a football field, unless you are a lot taller than I am. LOL

Having a dog that doesn't like the work is a challenge, but also sort of a waste of time. There are dogs that will knock that off in thier sleep. I had Rotts that would, so take that into consideration next time you are thinking of continueing to train this dog.

I tend to get really bored with a project dog, so if you are doing this to learn, just remember what you are doing is kind of like studying nerve pathways after having been up for 23 hours. A different dog will be a LOT more fun.

Good God , he is pooping out after that little distance???? YIKES!!!!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Here is Dave "happy britches" Frost going to his 2nd day of tracking
(notice I got my fav word in on the sly, you first amendment right abusing bastages.)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Now that's funny right there. 

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Hey, it's not us bastages..... it's the canned program.


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