# Feeding frequency and gorging



## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Does anyone have experience with lower frequency feeding or gorging? I read this article and some of it appeals to empirical reasoning: http://k9joy.com/dogarticles/dogfood01stomach.pdf

This is, of course, with a raw diet. I'm currently feeding twice a day and thinking about transitioning to once a day but I've heard about people fasting their dogs on a routine basis and this article suggests even feeding only 3 or 4 times a week and explains the thinking behind such a practice. It seems a little novel to me as I was not aware of any of the "majors" in the dog world doing this. Anyone?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

From a zoo perspective, I do know it is common to give big cats and raptors one fast day a week, which is probably fine for dogs too. When I fed more exclusively raw and not just supplementary like I do now, they'd get one fast day a week. However, my two Malinois (especially my female) would occasionally regurg some clear yellow fluid from their stomachs, so instead of a full fast, they'd get a light meal of yogurt, a few tablespoons of canned dog food and/or veggie mix instead. The other thing I'd be concerned with "gorging" a dog is GDV (bloat), even with "exercising" the stomach muscles. While everyone has the image in their mind of the wolf pack stuffing their faces with freshly killed moose, they also eat small meals of rodents, birds, and fruits/veggies as it is available, and pariah dogs are scavengers eating what they can, so I don't quite buy the "your dog was built to do nothing but gorge" theory. 

This statement in particular is not true, having done numerous necropsies on dogs and having seen numerous endoscopies on a dog's stomach. A dog's stomach does not have that many folds. A ruminant's, perhaps, but not a dog's.




> Further, the dog's stomach is full of small glands that produce digestive enzymes.
> Those glands start to work when they get in contact with food. This will happen for
> some of them immediately as the dog gets some food in the stomach, but, *because*
> *of the folding nature of the stomach, most of those glands do not get to touch food, **unless the stomach gets filled so that all the folds are stretched out!*​


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

I feed my dogs 4-5 times a week, once per day. I have done this for over 20 years. I do this because I feel it's healthier for the dog to not have food constantly digesting. IMO, having food constantly digesting is unnatural. 



> However, when you do this, you will see the "food searching" behavior disappear,
> and you will see your dog gain weight if it is too skinny and lose weight if it is too
> fat.


I agree with this 100%. My clients often have problems with their dogs stealing food (trash, counters etc) and moving to a once a day feeding really tends to help the problem. It's counter intuitive, but it works.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Empirical? How about flawed!

The dog's stomach does not fold when empty. The dog's stomach does not appear like an intestine when empty. The dog's stomach is a muscular organ that churns food. Even when partially filled, the contents of the stomach comes into contact with the entire surface of the stomach lining.

I used to do multi-day fasting and gorge feeding with raw diet. I'd let my dog literally eat until she looked like a bloated tick and then fast her for 3 days or so until she didn't look so swollen. :lol: I did this with about 5 - 6 different dogs and I had CONSTANT battles of keeping dogs out of the trash, off the counters. Had a very memorable experience of coming home to a dog standing on top of the fridge and eating out of an upper cabinet.

Now I measure out a ration in the morning, fill a treat pouch and feed the dog a few bites here and there throughout the day as training rewards. I have done this with about 10 different dogs and don't have abnornaml food-seeking behaviors now.

As far as a training point of view, I get MUCH better results. Letting a dog gorge itself is not a solution to the root problem of not giving a dog the stimulus, exercise and the JOB a dog needs to have.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

This whole thread is like an episode of outer limits to me.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Doesn't appeal to me and I'm not sure how healthy it is. I've had free fed dogs in the past and noticed that they didn't gorge and fast, but tended to pick here and there. Weight was good on my last free fed dog until we got a second dog and she started eating all the food so the other dog wouldn't. Then I had to go to portion control.

When my dogs are running loose on the trails they mouse hunt in the long grass, despite the fact that they are well fed. Suggests to me that a wild canid would not be gorging and fasting, but gorging and rodent hunting and scavenging opportunistically in between the big kill feasts, as Maren already said. 

Twice a day I gather up bowls and measure out food. My dogs get happy, especially my Labx. Wooo hoo food time. Twice a day I get to rock their worlds - why miss that for some weirdo feeding schedules?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Anne, I've had similar experiences with clients. Make the meals small and frequent, especially if they are interactive somehow (like in a Kong or other food dispensing toy) and a lot of the frantic scavenging behavior will go away. 

The author (PhD in chemistry aside) does not have an understanding of the physiology of the stomach:



> Further, the dog's stomach is full of small glands that produce digestive enzymes.
> Those glands start to work when they get in contact with food. This will happen for
> some of them immediately as the dog gets some food in the stomach, but, because
> of the folding nature of the stomach, most of those glands do not get to touch food,
> unless the stomach gets filled so that all the folds are stretched out!


There are not any "glands" as in a discrete glandular organ in the stomach. There are two individual cells types, called chief cells and parietal cells, that stimulate the production of hydrochloric acid and some of the digestive enzymes (but certainly not all, as there are others made by the pancreas and so on). They individually (not as a proper "gland") secrete the HCl and the enzymes and there is no need for food to "touch" the cells because the secretions get all churned up together. The process starts even before the food reaches the stomach. So I honestly don't know what the author is talking about?


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Thanks for the additional info Maren!

I remember this article coming up before and I was flamed for saying that just 'cause he is a chemist doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about! It bothered me ever since, but not enough to look up the article. 

This time, I had my fiance (a veterinarian) read the first 3 paragraphs and it was refreshing to hear that I had been right all along (even though I didn't know why I was right). I don't think he read as far as the "glands" part. :wink:

Maybe we can put this "theory" to rest?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

See, that's what bugs me is when people come up with theories but they present them as facts, especially if they require (as this person does) that their biography stating they have a PhD in chemistry be included in their "article" to lend it more credence. I have a masters degree in biology, but I didn't study the physiology and microanatomy of the stomach in grad school, nor would I have claimed to be an expert on it. I studied it in vet school, which is how I know first hand the stomach doesn't have a ton of folds like an "accordion" or glands that must be touched to pass off its enzyme-y goodness. :mrgreen:


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