# My Rescue Malinois: Second Time on the Leg Sleeves



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm also working Lily, my 5 year old rescue Malinois, in PSA and we also just switched her to the jambieres for a couple reasons. She's my dog with the neurological disorder called fibrocartilagenous embolism (FCE) around the sixth or seventh cervical vertebrae in her neck, so jumping for an arm bite will sometimes flip over her over on her back as she doesn't have as much proprioception on the right side. FCE is non painful though and we can't make it worse by doing bitework.

Anyone who saw her at The Gathering knows she's kind of a nut for any bite work, but she's calmed down a lot and is starting to gain confidence, though she still bites front mouthed. This was from last weekend, so sorry if my leash handling still sucks. ](*,)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zNrAPghdIk


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I'm also working Lily, my 5 year old rescue Malinois, in PSA and we also just switched her to the jambieres for a couple reasons. She's my dog with the neurological disorder called fibrocartilagenous embolism (FCE) around the sixth or seventh cervical vertebrae in her neck, so jumping for an arm bite will sometimes flip over her over on her back as she doesn't have as much proprioception on the right side. FCE is non painful though and we can't make it worse by doing bitework.
> 
> Anyone who saw her at The Gathering knows she's kind of a nut for any bite work, but she's calmed down a lot and is starting to gain confidence, though she still bites front mouthed. This was from last weekend, so sorry if my leash handling still sucks. ](*,)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zNrAPghdIk


Hi Maren,

Nice dog, nice decoy work and YES your leash handling skills still suck. 
I think/hope it will help if I tell you why they suck? 
Put the leash loop around your right hand and lock your hand
behind your hip, put your weight on your back leg. (alternatively put the leash around your butt and "sit" on the leash) Do NOT
try to hold the dog with your left hand. The only thing the left
hand should be doing is keeping pressure on the leash as the decoy moves in and out the circle. Drag ins are a great training tool BUT you need to learn how to be a post first . 
The next video I want to see your whole body move if you do drag ins NOT your arms going back and forth like you're sawing a log


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Will do, boss! ;-) Hope it's better than the previous sessions though... [-o<


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Don't waste time training this dog. Seriously. Nothing worse than working a dog like this. Spend more time with Fawkes. Let this one find something else to do.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Don't waste time training this dog. Seriously. Nothing worse than working a dog like this. Spend more time with Fawkes. Let this one find something else to do.


Jeff,

I totally disagree. The dog seems to be enjoying its self. You don't learn much working a perfect dog. You have to think to train the
less then ideal dog. If Maren has the time to train both dogs then
I say go for it. As long as SHE enjoys herself and her decoy is
willing to work with both dogs.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The dog is enjoying itself ?? Why is it letting go then ? Focus on the dog that works.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

She comes out more amped for the work than Fawkes does. In fact, I think she'd actually be a better first time suit dog for me than Fawkes as her out is clean as a whistle cause she loves the interaction but doesn't care much about possessing the object, she's fast and strong but not quite as fast or as strong (she's about 15 lbs less) as Fawkes, and she's a bit softer in drive than he is and so more amenable to correction. In my mind, her nerve is not quite as strong and add that to the fact she never started bite work until she was 5 years old, she's be more likely to come off a bite, yeah.

I'm focusing a bit more on Fawkes at moment though for any trialing purposes as I've done much more more obedience with him because I always intended for him to be a sport dog, yada yada yada. I only needed enough obedience on her to be a good therapy dog plus you intentionally do not train a therapy dog to do sustained focus on you (as it needs to be on the patient), so we just never worked on it and it'll take some catching up to do. But hey, if I can ever get a middle aged rescue dog with no previous history of being worked titled in a suit sport, that'd be cool too. :smile: I don't make a dog work if they don't want to or don't have the aptitude (been there, done that). I'm enjoying working her and our decoy says she's very much like his 10 year old female in the work, so I'll take her as far as she wants to go.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Can someone please explain how she says she has this much of a history with working with dogs and she gives advice to everyone about everything but it look like her first day ever holding working a dog? The only thing I can come up with is these videos are several years old and it was her first day holding a lead. Something just doesn’t add up to me?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't typically give advice on bitework, Chris. Most of those threads on the bitework nitty gritty I may or may not read but I usually don't speak up and when I do, it's usually to ask questions. Plus I'll *always* admit I'm not a good handler. I'm in the game to have fun with the dogs and to get experience with working dogs so I know what they go through so I can better treat them, not to be tops on the podium, which will likely never, ever happen. #-o :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is wrong with you ?? You gotta shoot for something, might as well be the podium. Of course most trials I have been to don't have one. Maybe you don't get there, but for ****s sake at least AIM in that direction.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is wrong with you ?? _*You gotta shoot for something, might as well be the podium. Of course most trials I have been to don't have one. Maybe you don't get there, but for ****s sake at least AIM in that direction*_.


 
One of the best comments in a long time....more people should think and DO THIS!!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

*shrug* I'm almost self critical to a fault. Plus I'm a realist. Even if by some miracle I'd qualify to go the nationals somehow in either PSA or dock diving or whatever, I logistically just can't do it. Fawkes is really quite good at extreme vertical for dock diving (he got 3rd place for the cadet division last night with a leg towards that title and placed 11th out of 26 for his first real trial at the Lake of the Ozarks, the first trial he's actually figured out how to jump out 8 feet up and grab it off the boom) and EV is nice cause it doesn't require a ton from the handler, but I just can't take off school to go to nationals. I'm literally the only one in my class of 70 who still tries to trains in dog sports other than a small number who have therapy dogs, and even that is pushing it.

Maybe someday...that a better attitude for ya? :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No. Lack of time is a poor excuse. God knows I have tried it in the past. Lack of a decoy hurts like the dickens, but you have one of those.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Ha, I know...I was without one for three and a half years. ](*,) That's why I appreciate ours. Gotta keep 'em happy (and hydrated in this weather!).

While I agree with you to a point and you do make time for what's important to you, there's literally no way I can just take off days, especially during the week and especially during certain rotations (small animal surgery, internal medicine, or equine medicine and surgery, all of which I have coming up). I have small animal surgery and then equine coming up next month. It will be back to 14-16 hours days 5 days a week (more if I'm on emergency and ICU) and 4+ hours on the weekends for 3 months straight. Depending on the schedule and caseload of patients, there's a chance I literally might not get a single day 100% off for 3 straight months. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. Someone kill me already... #-o


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is wrong with you ?? You gotta shoot for something, might as well be the podium. Of course most trials I have been to don't have one. Maybe you don't get there, but for ****s sake at least AIM in that direction.


Why? 
There are only 3-4 places on the podium (if they even have one)
So anyone chances of getting on the podium are limited. You can have a goal on getting on the podium and wind up being disappointed in your dog and/or yourself OR you can have a goal of getting a title and having fun with your dog and be HAPPY 
when you achieve that goal :=)


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Amen Thomas.

Maren I did see the dog at The Gathering. Thanks for taking in a dog like this. This is a great dog for you to learn tons. Starting at her age and your handling skills I don't think you'll make the podium. So be it. If you are havng fun then that's the ticket. We all, Jeff included, started out doing this because it was fun. In the begining none of us ever thought we would really be on a podium. Very few of us have but we all have had fun.

Good job. If you're shooting for fun, you have made it. ;o))


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Lol people who feel the need to constantly be at the TOP of shit like a HOBBY crack me up hands down. It'sa HOBBY it's FUN. The only time you need to aim to be at the top is if it' your damn JOB. So no I don;t care if rottweilers aren't going to be able to beat that top point mal. I don't like working mals, I have fun working the dogs I have, so guess what I'm going to do?

Until someone pays me to do this? Oh well. :-({|= Ho shit no, someone's actually having fun with their dogs even if though they have no goal to try for the tippity top, RUN.

This is why I'm going to keep harassing them Lyda boys, those young kids know how to have a good time =P


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Thomas, don't even try and pull that fun shit on me. I have seen you trial, and seen how serious you take it. 

There are many many goobs out there that just want to have fun, but they are basically at the clubs as filler. If the sports were more popular here, and in some places they are, "fun" is not gonna cut it, and you will have to find another club.

Really Thomas, you thought that would work ?? I remember you punching the blind, don't think I didn't see that. LOL


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Thomas, don't even try and pull that fun shit on me. I have seen you trial, and seen how serious you take it.
> 
> There are many many goobs out there that just want to have fun, but they are basically at the clubs as filler. If the sports were more popular here, and in some places they are, "fun" is not gonna cut it, and you will have to find another club.
> 
> Really Thomas, you thought that would work ?? I remember you punching the blind, don't think I didn't see that. LOL


Jeff,

That was years and years ago. I'm much more fun loving now 
I used to look for trouble, now I look for ways to avoid it.
In real life, the Internet doesn't count LOL


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Can you hear everyone singing the bullshit song ?? : )


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Can you hear everyone singing the bullshit song ?? : )


During pretty much everything YOU post .......snap
I can keep this up all day 

Imagine how many people would attend your seminars IF you'd
actually managed to pass at the Nationals or at least passed a few
more exercises?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Now, now, gentlemen, not on my thread. Oh wait, who am I kidding? :roll: :lol:











BTW Thomas, did some more posting today and less drag ins for Fawkes (had to work this afternoon, so just brought one dog). No video cause all my dock diving stuff from Friday and Saturday is still on the camera. We're also using a wee bit of compulsion to clean up his outs. Was helpful, thanks!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Now, now, gentlemen, not on my thread. Oh wait, who am I kidding? :roll: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Maren 

I'm glad I was able to help 
Speaking about "a wee bit of compulsion" Last Friday during OB Flann decided to ignore my HERE command and take the tug back to the van. Oh No you didn't ! I put the leash on his prong and drug his azz back to the field. FUSS, pop SIT pop PLATZ pop. By the time we got on the field his eyes were glued to me and he was practically prancing. Sometimes you just have to reestablish the pack order


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Speaking about "a wee bit of compulsion" Last Friday during OB Flann decided to ignore my HERE command and take the tug back to the van. Oh No you didn't ! I put the leash on his prong and drug his azz back to the field. FUSS, pop SIT pop PLATZ pop. By the time we got on the field his eyes were glued to me and he was practically prancing. Sometimes you just have to reestablish the pack order


 
That sounds so gay..well, not as gay as your dogs names but still pretty gay


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> That sounds so gay..well, not as gay as your dogs names but still pretty gay


Compulsion sounds GAY? What kind of kinky gay sex are you into Gerry? 
Flann is short for Flannchadh. Google it


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Flann is short for Flannchadh. Google it


 
Red Warrior, nothing gay about that :lol:


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Red Warrior, nothing gay about that :lol:



Anyone named grimwood would know about gay names.
Do you cruise the gay bars asking if anyone wants to see your
grim woody? LOL


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Anyone named grimwood would know about gay names.
> Do you cruise the gay bars asking if anyone wants to see your
> grim woody? LOL


Is that really all you got ?? Don't blame me because you pick your dogs names from Harry Potter movies.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/thomas-barriano/a/a5a/391

Another LEO wannabe 

http://everquest2.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=893611111&locale=en

*Dubheasa my ass :lol:*


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Imagine how many people would attend your seminars IF you'd
actually managed to pass at the Nationals or at least passed a few
more exercises?

Remember that 16 point trial you had with Jago ??

SNAAAAAAAAAP ! ! ! ! 

What was Du's score that day ??


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## Rachel Kilburn (May 12, 2010)

Getting back to the topic at hand I think that if your Mal thoroughly enjoys working then let him work as long as he is pain free and happy. When it starts to cause pain then its time to stop  but if your competing have fun because like other people on here have said a hobby is supposed to be fun! I know that's why I compete with my dogs, because both me and my dogs walk the field and have fun, win, lose or draw


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/thomas-barriano/a/a5a/391
> 
> Another LEO wannabe
> 
> ...


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Imagine how many people would attend your seminars IF you'd
> actually managed to pass at the Nationals or at least passed a few
> more exercises?
> 
> ...


What trial are you talking about? Give me a little more information and I'll check the scorebook. Got to meet up with
Chris this morning. Hopefully Charly will make it and we can get some quality training in


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

The truth is if these fun loving people didn't enjoy what they do then not enough people would be in the trials and therefore NO MONEY. It takes money to put these trials on ( I know ) and without the money no one would be doing very much of it unless you really enjoy training. 

Let's take a poll 1- for the fun 
2- for the podium.
3- for the fun but if the podium does come so be it.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Is that really all you got ?? Don't blame me because you pick your dogs names from Harry Potter movies.


Ha, I'm the one that has two Harry Potter named dogs (Lily and Fawkes anyone?). \\/ At least my dogs are not named Edward and Bella..... :-&:-&:-&

Jerry, I'll take #3


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I'll take #3


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jerry Lyda said:


> The truth is if these fun loving people didn't enjoy what they do then not enough people would be in the trials and therefore NO MONEY. It takes money to put these trials on ( I know ) and without the money no one would be doing very much of it unless you really enjoy training.
> 
> Let's take a poll 1- for the fun
> 2- for the podium.
> 3- for the fun but if the podium does come so be it.


I think if you're talking club members then I'd agree. We need all sorts from the fun-loving to the deadly earnest, especially if they come in to the clubhouse after training to eat and drink. Sometimes the deadly earnest are a pain the the neck "one beer, 2 glasses" type.

However, at our Summer Trial we have no less than 40 IPO 3 starters and have had to try to find a solution, i.e. another Summer Trial. It will work out to be 2 Summer Trials, a week apart, as our national "Hornussen" Club is using our tracking land on 2 subsequent Sundays.

We have the various working trials in Winter with just a few Schutzhunde but to be honest, if you don't get a name for having Level 3 Trials in IPO or VPG, the club's reputation will sink. Just as not having members in the "higher regions" will not encourage the young trainers to follow suit.

Admittedly, the fun-loving contribute a great deal to the club but not "raising" the standards of the sport in general.

We need each other and this is good so!


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Admittedly, the fun-loving contribute a great deal to the club but not "raising" the standards of the sport in general.

Does that pretain to all club members, the way you see it?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Nah! How could it. The ones who stay in the levels 1 (whatever sport) tracking, allround trials, SAR, etc. can not contribute to raise the standards of the sport, but are welcomed as full members and not treated adversely. They receive (nearly) the same amount of training and are not unhappy. Truly, they do not want to be "pushed" to higher realms!

However, level 3 dogs in IPO and VPG attract the more ambitious handlers and this is good. From this stock we can build a good working group who compete with the best, if not the best of the best!

For years I have worked in many scoring offices at various clubs and have been amazed at handlers who have done 50 or more competitions at the same level, level 1, in our Begleithund which has levels 1-3, Schutzhund without protection work, in other words. If this suits them, so be it but you can't tell me that these teams are an advertisement for dog sport?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Gillian Schuler said:


> For years I have worked in many scoring offices at various clubs and have been amazed at handlers who have done 50 or more competitions at the same level, level 1, in our Begleithund which has levels 1-3, Schutzhund without protection work, in other words. If this suits them, so be it but you can't tell me that these teams are an advertisement for dog sport?


I look at it a little differently. I agree the people who stay in level 1 forever aren't "raising the bar" in terms of the overall level of the sport. But I think they are definitely an advertisement for dog sports. Many times they are the ambassadors at the club, the person who is passionate about the sport (why else do 50 level 1s LOL) but may not have a dog that can go all the way. But because they aren't so focused on the competition, they are willing to take the time to help educate the spectators, chat with people, etc. I also think they are a valuable resource to the club, since it's been my experience these are the handlers doing most of the "grunt work" at the events. The really competitive people are more focused on prepping their dog to trial, vs helping with the BBQ, laying tracks, setting jumps, etc.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I agree with you partly and I'm definitely not rejecting them - they are often the nicest club members. They help more,admittedly but it's not always easy to utilise them for the level 3's as they can't lay tracks competentlx. You can try to teach them, but then their nerves fail them - it's true!

They do something for dog sport as an advertisement but they don't raise the levels of the sport.

They are often not interested in the IPO / VPG issues, and don't interest themselves enough.

No rejection but as much as we need and love them, we can't always use them!

Their wives do make scrumptious cakes for our trials though!

It takes all sorts, I know, and as I said "we need each other" but for different purposes!


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Here here Kadi.

We have gone way off base as to what we are talking about. Let's back up. We are talking about the fun in working dogs not the level you take the dogs. Most of the people that love it don't care if they go podium. If those people didn't love it then they wouldn't go 50 times for their level one. Who cares how many times they do it. It's their decission any way. I'll bet this, they are not as stressed as a person that only competes for the world team. They will also as you pointed out will do repete titles for the fun of it. World competitors will $hit can a dog if it won't take him there.These people although not all are after the prestiage(?) of it all. Remember that this thread is about the fun of it. I would love to compete at the world level but there are only a few that do. So until it ever happens I'll sit back and have some fun with my dog and with all the people I meet in the mean time with their dogs.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So Jerry, you are saying that you just flail around then ?? If you are not trying for the podium, then why compete at all ?? Is it fun to be last ?? I can assure you that it is not.

I think many times this is why people join the odd letters and numbers sports. There is no pressure, as no one is gonna be out there crushing it. However, when you trail in a sport that many many people do, there is a big difference, because people can look at goof training, and point it out and say, WTF is that ?? That is not _______ (pick a sport)

I know there are a lot of people that join dogsports and look real motivated, and are gone in 6 moths when they start to get that training 1 or 2 times a week doesn't get you very far. Then there are those that come to training and in 6 months are on the sidelines stuffing their faces talking shit about every person they know. LOL Ever see that when the person doesn't realize the camera is on ?? God I love that. 

I have NO idea why anyone would put up with the sissy personalities of so many in dogsports if they did not want to try and take it all.

Perhaps you would like to play some little kid soccer, you know, the kind where they don't keep score ?? #-o#-o#-o


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Jeff you too are missing the point.

First let me say this. Being last isn't bad. You learn a lot being there. I have been on the podium , 6 times with one dog. If I wasn't on the poduim would I have had fun trying, hell yes. Do you think that only the people that ends up on the podium are the ones having fun, hell no. Is it fun to be last no, but it's fun trying.

Ya'll are missing the point. Let me ask a question. Would any of you be in dog sports if you didn't think you would have fun doing it????? Some would but most of those people do it as a job and are making money doing it. Then they have to do it because of the money and to them it may not be fun. To some it's still fun. None of this has anything to do with a podium, It's about having fun with your dog win loose or draw.

That's my story( opinion ) and I'm sticking to it. ;o)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Jeff you too are missing the point.
> 
> First let me say this. Being last isn't bad. You learn a lot being there. I have been on the podium , 6 times with one dog. If I wasn't on the poduim would I have had fun trying, hell yes. Do you think that only the people that ends up on the podium are the ones having fun, hell no. Is it fun to be last no, but it's fun trying.
> 
> ...


Second to last is FUN, just not last


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Probably also depends if you're going into trialing with the mindset that you're trying to beat other people or if you are trying to beat your own personal best.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Probably also depends if you're going into trialing with the mindset that you're trying to beat other people or if you are trying to beat your own personal best.


Bingo.

Although being on the podium is nice, it's not a specific goal of mine, I like to trial to test the training, and try to improve on the last time out. And because I just enjoy trialing. First or last really doesn't matter to me, pass or fail does. I enjoy training, I enjoy trialing, if I wanted to be on the podium I never would have bothered trialing Mac LOL But he's fun to work, when I don't want to kill him, so ...

Some people just like to train. At any given time I'm training 3-5 dogs, in 4-5 venues. Chances of getting podium performances when my time/training is going in so many different directions are slim, but that's fine with me. I get bored easily, I'd rather have the variety then just work 1 dog in 1 venue trying for perfection.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I will let Jesse say it for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plY9hpA_Nbg


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Most podium aspirants have fun when training - it's not all about ego. I like to trial to see if my training has been successful and I like to have a goal otherwise I'd probably just play flyball with my dogs.

As for the woman I mentioned who did 50 Swiss Working Trials Level 1, she failed a lot and the 50th found her sitting outside the club crying - that's why I scrutinised her score book.

There's a saying "Participation is more important than winning". If that is so, why do the "also-ran" look so dejected mostly and the first few are beaming at the ranking ceremony?

Learning to be a good sport if you lose is important.


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