# Let's try this again: screening potential PPD buyers



## Woody Taylor

*Okay, I got a lot of feedback--some of it much more explicit than others ;-)--about how this was a good thread done bad by me cutting up with a forum participant yesterday. FWIW, I was very serious about what I said about the forum and its participants, but I should have knocked it off sooner than later and quit feeding it, and definitely done it in another thread. I want to apologize to those of you who were offended or irritated. I set a bad example yesterday and forgot that it's a community forum. Hoping we can start this topic off again, and stay on topic, the right way this time. I'll keep my yap shut. Thanks in advance for hitting it this time the right way.*

I had a great question PM'd to me by a forum member last night...who wanted it put out for discussion.



> Quote:
> Back in the 80's, folks with money and an interest in Schutzhund (but no interest in training for Schutzhund) would purchase titled dogs. It seemed like these owners lacked the ability to maintain these dogs, and the dogs neither respected nor worked for them.
> 
> It seems like there are a ton of people offering up PP trained dogs for sale to people with money. What I'm wondering is...what kinds of qualifications do trainers require of these buyers? Are there "rules" about to whom you do and do not sell these dogs? Are these rules ignored by less ethical PP trainers, and what are some of the consequences of this?



Well, PP trainers and owners, what do you think?


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## Anne Schmaltz

Okay, for what it's worth...
Last night I returned home with my "new" PPD.(Having spent the last two weeks with the trainer learning as much as possible about handling the dog.) This is the fulfillment of a search which began this last November when I was abruptly convinced of the need for the added vigilence and support. (My husband and I have, and know how to use, a 9 mm handgun, but hardly consider ourselves ready for WWIII, Jeff. Interestingly enough, several PPD trainers will not sell a dog to someone unwilling to at least make the minimal effort to protect themselves which owning a gun indicates)

While I needn't go into detail as to my circumstances, the trainer/seller with whom I ultimately placed my confidence did indeed ask immediately why I felt the need for a PPD. He cautioned me as to the responsibility that came with owning such a dog, the need to learn from him how to handle the dog, and the need to maintain the dog's edge with regular training provided by an experienced decoy. 

I really can't comment as to the type of person who regularly seeks out a PPD, but I can tell you I am eternally grateful this man didn't blow me off as some crackpot who didn't deserve the time of day. I am equally glad that forums such as this exist which enable one to gain information from those kind enough to share their experience. It seems to me that one of the great benefits of civilization is that people can utilize knowledge which they need not always acquire first-hand.

My experience is that there is at least one very responsible source of PPDs doing business with the highest integrity  

Anne, avowed newbie.


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## Woody Taylor

Anne Schmaltz said:


> Anne, avowed newbie.


*And welcome Anne!* Take a moment to go introduce yourself in the Members Bio's page. Glad to hear about your PPD experience, hoping others will chime in. Including the people training and selling them...Al, Andres (?)...


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## Sarah Hall

When I USED to train/place PPDs, I would use an extensive interview process. First and foremost, the person wanting the dog would have a background check performed for any violence on others (human and animal alike). Next, if I was still a little iffy, a psychological exam would be performed (at their expense, they want the dog they can pay to get it!) to make sure the person is stable mentally. Then, they would spend a week down here handling a few finished dogs (not neccesarily the one they were interested in) to see what their skill level was. If they had little to no skills, they were denied a dog and encouraged to attend seminars and trainings to learn more and gain more experience. If their skill was adequate, they would be matched with a dog based on personality, working style, and family situation. I know it seems an awful lot to put someone through, but these dogs are like firearms. When placed in the proper hands they are amazing, but in the wrong hands the results can be catastrophic.


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## Tim Martens

Woody Taylor said:


> *Okay, I got a lot of feedback--some of it much more explicit than others ;-)--about how this was a good thread done bad by me cutting up with a forum participant yesterday. FWIW, I was very serious about what I said about the forum and its participants, but I should have knocked it off sooner than later and quit feeding it, and definitely done it in another thread. I want to apologize to those of you who were offended or irritated. I set a bad example yesterday and forgot that it's a community forum. Hoping we can start this topic off again, and stay on topic, the right way this time. I'll keep my yap shut. Thanks in advance for hitting it this time the right way.*


that's crazy. you shouldn't have to apologize to anyone for voicing your opinion. geez. i don't believe there was much if any vulgarity. so things got a little heated. so what. you're human. i like to see people fired up. it shows they have passion for what they're debating. i, for one, salute you for your contributions in the other thread...


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## Woody Taylor

Tim Martens said:


> i, for one, salute you for your contributions in the other thread...


Now THAT is a cut and paste. ;-)

Tim, do you all ever run into a lot of PPDs in your line of work? Or is it mostly just toughened up junkyard dog stuff?


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## Tim Martens

Woody Taylor said:


> Tim Martens said:
> 
> 
> 
> i, for one, salute you for your contributions in the other thread...
> 
> 
> 
> Now THAT is a cut and paste. ;-)
> 
> Tim, do you all ever run into a lot of PPDs in your line of work? Or is it mostly just toughened up junkyard dog stuff?
Click to expand...

i don't think i've ever run into a PPD on the job. actually i don't think i've ever seen a dog anywhere that someone called a "PPD". seen plenty of sport dogs, but never a "PPD"...


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## Woody Taylor

Anne Schmaltz said:


> several PPD trainers will not sell a dog to someone unwilling to at least make the minimal effort to protect themselves which owning a gun indicates)


Anne, how was that communicated to you as you looked at different vendors? Would people verbally set out expectations to you, or was there some type of screening document they would share?

All new to me, just wondering.


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## Anne Schmaltz

Actually, on another forum frequented by PSD trainers (who, IMHO are the best source of good PPDs) the subject came up for discussion earlier this year. Also Will Rambeau, who recommended Matt Hammond, brought up the subject during my pre-screening screening  

While I was researching trainers and kennels prior to meeting Will, I did come accross several outfits that prominently stress screening, instruction and follow-up training either verbally or in their websites. The thing is, anyone with half a brain (myself, for example) would expect a reputable PPD seller to do exactly this, so I really couldn't take it as any real measure of integrity. The absence of any mention of on-site training being required, however, ("Dog comes with instructional DVD," for example) does allow one to eliminate maybe half of the sellers immediately, though.


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## Woody Taylor

Anne Schmaltz said:


> The absence of any mention of on-site training being required, however, ("Dog comes with instructional DVD," for example) does allow one to eliminate maybe half of the sellers immediately, though.


That amazes me. Wonder how they (the PPD "trainer") would avoid liability in a situation like that? I would think someone on the wrong side of one of their dogs who was then improperly handled would be looking down the barrel of a really big civil suit, at the very least.


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## susan tuck

Oh that reminds me of something. In the early 90's there was a kennel importing/training GSD's. Anyway, the proprieter sold a dog to a lady, who was shortly thereafter bit very badly. She sued the kennel & the jist of the whole thing was that he had told her to never take the dog out without a muzzle. Now obviously, you don't sell a dog like that to an inexperienced person. I guess this is an example of the bad extreme. I don't remeber what the outcome of the whole thing was.


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## Bob Scott

susan tuck said:


> Oh that reminds me of something. In the early 90's there was a kennel importing/training GSD's. Anyway, the proprieter sold a dog to a lady, who was shortly thereafter bit very badly. She sued the kennel & the jist of the whole thing was that he had told her to never take the dog out without a muzzle. Now obviously, you don't sell a dog like that to an inexperienced person. I guess this is an example of the bad extreme. I don't remeber what the outcome of the whole thing was.


Why, for the life of me, would you purchase a PPD, then have to keep a muzzle on it? Someone got took on that one. JMHO!


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## susan tuck

The whole thing was screwy, but supposedly she was in the "getting to know ya" stage with the dog & the trainer let her take the dog home, but with instructions to keep the dog muzzled if she took him out of his kennel except when the trainer was there to "complete" the training. No one with any credibility would have ever sold the dog like that. I think with this particular facility, it was only a matter of time until something bizarre & stupid happened. This trainer was one of those who bought European rejects & turned around & sold them for big $$$ as pp dogs. He was more interested in the turn around time than the consequences.


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## Liz Monty

OK, I will be the one to be honest about this. I had NO experience with a trained or civil/defensive dog. One day I bought an older puppy from a family home that said it was too rough on their smaller breed dog, but that she was a good dog. GSD of course. The problems were immediate. This older puppy was in full control. Fist, I received a bite on my arm that sent me to emergency for tetanus shot, then she began to use my young son's clothing as a tug toy, but would not release. I had no experience and pulled and popped that leash out of instinct. It took everything to make her release. She constantly mauled me and everyone else she could get near. Pulling socks from feet, pullng clothing, mouthing until hands and arms where torn up. I began to read books and start to learn. Then things escalated as she matured a bit more. But she also, bonded to my son and myself and stopped mauling us and instead became a highly civil and aggressive dog to strangers and other dogs. Then she became civil with close friends that she knew very well. I called our local working dog trainer and asked for help. He stated that "he did not waste his time with beginners and would have nothing to do with the dog" I finally gave up this dog to a cop who wanted her to protect his girlfriend. I gave her up gladly and bought an 8 week old GSD and went to obedience school with her right away. Then continued to learn from there until I fully understood their nature and what was needed to remain in control of a working dog or any other aggressive dog. But I am still and always learning. I think the screening process is highly important and a good match between dog and owner is needed.
Actually about 5 years back, one of my females ripped me up pretty good and I met Lou Castle on line for advice. He had good advice and I used it to solve the problem. I think any dog owner needs to be fully educated and learn from experience before ever owning a civil/guard/protection dog.


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## Luna Wolf

I am new to the professional training world and have had my own business for almost 2 years now. In that time I have had several requests to train a person's dog as a PP dog. Out of all the requests, I have had none that qualify in my professional opinion as being capable or ethical enough to have a PP dog in their possession. Many were involved in growing or selling drugs, some just thought it was cool, some haven't the brains to deal with it. (For clarification, I would never train a person's pet as a PP dog that was trained to bite unless it had the breeding behind it to handle the job and the owner was exceptional in every way. I would however, train a pet dog to be a Bluff dog if the owner was exceptional, but the dog not of good breeding. I see a PP dog as a loaded weapon. Very few people can handle that responsibility.


My qualifications (hoops I make people jump through) before I will train a PP Dog or Bluff Dog for anyone:

1. Extensive interview process conducted by me in their home, billed at my hourly rate
(If I am even slightly unsure of the person's motives, qualifications, etc, I will refuse.)
2. Criminal Record Check at their expense
3. Dog must be proficient in obedience and have no behavioral vices. If obedience is not up to snuff, they must work with me to get the dog up to par, if possible.
4. Thorough tests and examination of the dog and vet check of current and past conditions. Mental and physical tests of the dog's capability to possibly learn the skill of PP/Bluff.

No one has ever made it past #1. Actually, no one has ever made it past asking me if I can do it, and me telling them about the process before they back out. No one wants a PP/Bluff dog enough to let me interview them or do a crim check.

Mind you I have only been training professionally for 2 years and I do not own my own kennel yet. It would be nice to be able to purchase and train real PP dogs and then find suitable buyers, as not all "pets" can become PP dogs or Bluff Dogs. But that will come in time.

Hope my 2 cents made sense!


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## Lyn Chen

Just a thought...maybe nobody wants to be billed for just an interview?


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## Al Curbow

Luna, What do you mean by "bluff dog"? LOL, i've never heard that term,
AL


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## Connie Sutherland

Al Curbow said:


> Luna, What do you mean by "bluff dog"? LOL, i've never heard that term,
> AL


I believe it's used in this sense: dogs who look like they will bite as opposed to "actual man-stoppers."

These are not my terms; I've read them on web sites.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto

A person who has identified his requirement and in in dire need of a protection dog will work his dog to supply his need. No question about that or the deal is off. The person must possess good judgement and with deep respect for humanity, making sure his use of dog will only be under extreme cases where his personal safety will be heavilly compromised. On the other hand, anyone who supplies that dog must make sure the buyer receives adequate training fitting his security needs as well as instilling stability on that dog in the name of public safety. Of course, info on proper care, maintenance and feeding of that dog should go as well. 

As a PPD, it goes to say that the dog must be crowd-safe, street-safe and above all, child-safe, else it's too far off to be called a PPD and hence, has no business being in the streets. Now you can probably imagine the level of training that dog must have that, totally handler-controlled and can be commanded to ignore commotions up ahead that doesn't concern its handler, nor triggered by non-aggressive movements like a child running with a ball, etc. Nowadays a dog sees a ball and he goes nuts, or bites anyone in motion. One simply reaps what he has sown.

My opinion and best regards...


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## Luna Wolf

*Bluff Dogs*



Al Curbow said:


> Luna, What do you mean by "bluff dog"? LOL, i've never heard that term,
> AL


Just a term used to describe a dog that will bark and act like a PP Dog, but if the attacker continues, the dog will back down and will not bite anyone. The point being that you can have a "protection dog", but not have to worry about an accidental bite as the dog is never taught to bite, only bark - and most attackers can be scared off by a barking dog.


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## Connie Sutherland

*Re: Bluff Dogs*



Luna Wolf said:


> Al Curbow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Luna, What do you mean by "bluff dog"? LOL, i've never heard that term,
> AL
> 
> 
> 
> Just a term used to describe a dog that will bark and act like a PP Dog, but if the attacker continues, the dog will back down and will not bite anyone. The point being that you can have a "protection dog", but not have to worry about an accidental bite as the dog is never taught to bite, only bark - and most attackers can be scared off by a barking dog.
Click to expand...

And I've even read it as a three-tier thing. There's the alarm dog (bark loud), the bluff dog (bark and lunge and look scary), and the actual "man-stopper."


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## Bob Scott

The perfect PPD combination.
Large, serious, dog that doesn't over react and a small yappy little monster to start the big dog's motor. 
Example- My, dern near perfect  GSD and my psycho  JRT. 
NOTHING gets by those two.


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## Connie Sutherland

Bob Scott said:


> The perfect PPD combination.
> Large, serious, dog that doesn't over react and a small yappy little monster to start the big dog's motor.
> Example- My, dern near perfect  GSD and my psycho  JRT.
> NOTHING gets by those two.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Bob Scott

Yes, but I'm dead serious! 
That combination will serve 99% of the people that think they need a PPD.


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## Connie Sutherland

Bob Scott said:


> Yes, but I'm dead serious!
> That combination will serve 99% of the people that think they need a PPD.


The JRT alone will cover 98%.


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## Liz Monty

I have a funny story, at least I think it is funny. An example of a PPD who is a little unclear of her job. A female GSD I had and ended up going to a Toronto Police officer. She (the dog) was first screened by John Cyd here in Ontario after I had raised her to 1 and a half years of age. It took one 5 minute session of me holding her lead and John approaching with a whip, not hurting or touching her, but snapping it near us and having me tell the dog WATCH. Oh my, she was ready to eat him, it was funny to see this in her because she was the sweetest dog in all ways and totally trustworthy with peolple, kids and dogs. But she had great prey drive. So I thought I would see where she could go. Here's the funny part - one day my car overheats and dog and I get out to walk home. A man pulls up and asks if I need help, I tell him no thankyou. He drives ahead and turns back. He stops ahead of us and gets out and approaches. He comes right up to us and insists he drive me home, kinda like he never saw the dog there, very strange. Well he grabbed my shoulder when I refused his invite and my sweet doggy took a chunk out of his leg. The police ended up checking hospital ER rooms to catch this guy but he did not show up at any. I loved that dog.
Oh I forgot funny part two - the officer in toronto who got her later, called me one night and asked two really funny questions. He asked why the dog was keeping him from getting in his bed at night, and why she jumped around crazy when he would wear his watch. LOL.
Her prey drive included chasing shadows and glitters of reflections, we all used to play with her with that, it was hillarious, but never a problem. Well then I had to explain to him that when she was a puppy she challenged me only one time, on my bed, I came to bed and she stood her ground growling on my bed and would not respond to my commands. So I called John and he said, "simple - go downstairs and get her a toy or food, when she leaves the bed get into it, it won't happen again." he was right. So to this day I still laugh picturing this poor man facing her in all her challenging glory in his bedroom.


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## Bob Scott

Some months ago, my 93yr old father-in-law, who lives with us, had opend the door when the mailman was comming down the street. 
I apologized to the mail man the next day and he said Pete just barked at him till he (mailman) put one foot on our lawn. then the mailman said "That crazy little MF looked like someone dropped a running chainsaw on your lawn."
Then he handed me the mail we didn't get the previous day.


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## Liz Monty

Oh my mistake, I meant Syd Murray, not John Cyd, hard to remember names after a long time.

Edit; this dog was also checked out by John who used to screen and train dogs involved with OVERT before being sent to live with the Officer. Just so you know, she was not sent by me without checking her temperament first. John actually thought she was so sweet she stayed in his family home for a week with his children.


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## Liz Monty

Bob, do you mean he ran off, or he went nuts on the mailman??


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## Greg Long

For me personally,a "good" dog is a pet and friend first.It is also a dog that will bite under certain circumstances.I dont like the term "PPD",never have.Because of the dogs I have and occasionally sell,the person that ends up with them has a big responsibility.The more training the dog has then more stable the dog is.It is the untrained dogs that I worry the most about.
I recently placed a young Czech male with a girl.This dog was not what I would look for as a "PPD" but she just wanted a good pet.He did have quite a bit of training however.I just found out he is being very protective of her when she was "play" fighting with a friend.She is able to tell the dog "its OK" and has good control.This dog bites very hard for a young dog.I dont worry about them at all.If this same dog didnt have the training he has now,the situation might have turned out badly.


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## Connie Sutherland

Greg is great! Greg is great! Greg is great!

Wait!  Why did I type that?


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## Al Curbow

I disagree with Greg, the term PPD is exactly that to me. I want a dog to bite and fight when i or my wife need it, to give us time to get away or get a weapon, it's not complicated. If the animal won't do this , it's not a PPD. I was thinking about that "bluff dog" stuff and in my mind it can give someone a false sense of security, not good. And no, nobodys looking to get me but i do read the papers and watch the news and there's quite a few bad people out there doing home invasions and carjackings etc. , so having a dog that will really bite does add an extra layer of protection, JMO,

AL


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## Connie Sutherland

Al Curbow said:


> I disagree with Greg, the term PPD is exactly that to me. I want a dog to bite and fight when i or my wife need it, to give us time to get away or get a weapon, it's not complicated. If the animal won't do this , it's not a PPD. I was thinking about that "bluff dog" stuff and in my mind it can give someone a false sense of security, not good. And no, nobodys looking to get me but i do read the papers and watch the news and there's quite a few bad people out there doing home invasions and carjackings etc. , so having a dog that will really bite does add an extra layer of protection, JMO,
> 
> AL


I finally found that PPD site where I read the three-tier terms of alarm, bluff, and PPD:
http://www.protectiondog.com/selfdefencedogs.htm

It also mentions, as Al does, the possibility of a false sense of security from a "bluff dog."


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## Greg Long

Al Curbow said:


> I disagree with Greg, the term PPD is exactly that to me. I want a dog to bite and fight when i or my wife need it, to give us time to get away or get a weapon, it's not complicated. If the animal won't do this , it's not a PPD. I was thinking about that "bluff dog" stuff and in my mind it can give someone a false sense of security, not good. And no, nobodys looking to get me but i do read the papers and watch the news and there's quite a few bad people out there doing home invasions and carjackings etc. , so having a dog that will really bite does add an extra layer of protection, JMO,
> 
> AL


 I didnt make myself clear I guess.A "good" dog to me is a well trained PPD.That is,I want my dogs to be able to do that but that is not the reason for me having that type of dog.The term "PPD" gives some a false sense of security.If I truly believe my life is in danger and I cant handle the situation myself,then I want my dog to neutralize(read "kill") the threat but that is the very last resort.Why wouldnt you want a dog like that?As long as it is stable (and the training is really what stabilizes the bite).If you have one of these so called "protection" breeds then they may bite anyway when you dont want them to.
I dont like the idea of selling a person a dog and labling it a "personal protection dog".The protection part is just part of the package of a well trained dog from these strong working breeds.These PPDs should not be the first line of defense.They should be part of the big picture for a 'security conscious' minded individual.
Also I do not believe a person has to have a gun before they are able to buy a "PPD".Many people are more likely to shoot themselves or someone they love than an assailant.


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## melissa mims

Bluff dog=bite but won't fight.

I got one of those. Highly territorial, a little thin nerved, responds to threat with aggression, but the goal of the aggression is to drive the threat away, not dominate or fight it. Serves my purposes; she is crated when company is over. She is a little too edgy and suspicious to trust with people in the house.

I have seen her serious once, when she felt her 'boy' (my son) was in danger. When she went for the guy (provoked), there was no doubt in my mind she would have followed through. But that was the exception. 

A dog that would kill a man? Spousal abuse is one of those areas that I feel a PPD would be an excellent idea; nothing like a serious maneater to keep hubby wifebeater/stalker off the property, along with a .45.

Or maybe a pack of PPD, to get rid of the evidence....Back to the original topic, I wonder if emotional stress (such as being stalked) would be an exclusion criteria for an ethical PPD vendor/trainer. Would stress affect your judgment? _Could_ you send your dog to do its job, if its job is to drive ex-hubby away, by any means necessary?

I have no pratical experience in this at all. Ya'll can tear me up with your PPD dogs, if ya want. :lol:


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## David Frost

<<Highly territorial, a little thin nerved, responds to threat with aggression, but the goal of the aggression is to drive the threat away, not dominate or fight it.>>

They can call it a bluff dog if they like, but let's call it what it is. That type of behavior is fear based, nothing more. I wouldn't think that would be a good PPD.

DFrost


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## melissa mims

Absolutley right, never said it wasn't.  

I know she is fear-based, but most people don't. And she is under much better control than when I first got her. Lotta control and a lotta socialization. And no, I know she wouldn't be a PPD, far from it. She is a good doorbell though.

Seriously, for those that do train and sell these kind of dogs, what would be the exclusion criteria? Aside from the obvious; criminal record, drug dealer, what not. I would imagine selling a dog that had the potential to really hurt someone (not just bite, but fight) would expose a vendor to liability; how do you screen out the wackos? Or do wackos find their own nervy, fearful dogs, and train for their own ends?

Sorry if I am butting into a subject that I have no practical experience in. I know nothing about PPD and their training; I am just a Schutzhunder, with one good dog and a pack of pets. But I am curious.


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## Liz Monty

Bob, now I finally get it, some things take me a while. Your dog wents nuts in the yard, so the mailman didn't go further, LOL.
Sorry took me a while. LOL


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## Tim Martens

David Frost said:


> <<Highly territorial, a little thin nerved, responds to threat with aggression, but the goal of the aggression is to drive the threat away, not dominate or fight it.>>
> 
> They can call it a bluff dog if they like, but let's call it what it is. That type of behavior is fear based, nothing more. I wouldn't think that would be a good PPD.
> 
> DFrost


exactly. there really shouldn't be "levels" of PPD's. it either can, or cannot do the job. i'm reminded of an alarm call i was sent to. my partner and i arrive. the front of the house is secure. we go around to the backyard and there is this all black GSD barking his head off at us.....but from about 20 feet behind the fence. my partner walked away saying, "i guess it's ok. i'm not going in there." i knew if this dog was serious about biting us, it would be jumping all over the fence. so i walk in the yard and he continues barking his head off, but always maintaining a 20 or 30 foot distance. the house was secure and there was no break-in, but if i was a burglar with even a little dog knowledge, that dog is useless...

the flip side to that is another alarm i went to....i go to check the yard and these two little min pins are snarling, growling, jumping all over the fence praying that i go back there so they can shred my pants. i didn't check that yard...


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## Liz Monty

After reading all the posts and looking back at mine, I can say what I think a good ppd should be like. Or what I would like it to be.
A dog who loves me and my family. a dog who does not lunge at neihbors fences when they come out. A dog who does not chase down children, a dog who does not bark/growl at people when crated (normal people visiting). A dog who does not bite because I am playfighting and laughing, A dog who does not bite and then back up barking and growling. A dog who does not just circle me barking at the bad guy. 
My perfect dog would easily no the difference between danger or not, and/or be able to follow a command suggesting him/her to advance to a level of danger reaction. My perfect dog would not only bite, but hold the bite or bite again until I commanded "out". If I was unable to respond to command because of being incapacitate, I would want that dog to keep that person there, not send them away with barking/growling. A great dog will hold the person and keep them from further movement.
I know it's a great deal to ask of a dog, but that is my perfect dog. And they have to be large enough for me to touch their back/head to pat them, because I am only 5 foot 2 inches. And I like to pat my dogs a lot.


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## Bob Scott

Liz, you wouldn't have trouble petting my JRT's head. He has a verticle jump that is higher then you are tall. 
Well.....at 11yrs old, he's down to about 4 ft now. :lol: :wink: 
Yes! He went ballistic in the yard but backed off when the mail carrier stepped back into the street. 
He's well aware of his boundary lines and his yard belongs to him.


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## Lyn Chen

You can easily get this perfect PPD with a combination of good genetics and good training. :lol:


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## Liz Monty

Well, I can't wait to get her. she will be large they say, and they sent me an email today asking If I could pick her up as SOON as possible. We had agreed on Tuesday, but I think they are hoping for Sunday (tomorrow). Apparantly she is now with the younger litter that came in and they don't like that too much. The kennel owner said that she is greeting her at the door every time. I just can't wait to get her home. Are the West German usually taller than the KNPV, DDR, East German, Czech lines??


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## Luna Wolf

*Non-stressful barking-bluff dog*



David Frost said:


> <<Highly>>
> 
> They can call it a bluff dog if they like, but let's call it what it is. That type of behavior is fear based, nothing more. I wouldn't think that would be a good PPD.
> 
> DFrost


A bluff doesn't have to be fear based. A great bluff dog can be trained that the barking at the "suspect" is a fun game. You can start with bringing out the defence in the dog and then you build the confidence so that the dog is playing a "game". Barking ferociously at the suspect becomes a fun game that does not negatively stress the dog.

When I took my 7 year old chow mix to "dog school" with me, we practiced aggitation and decoy work with her. For 2 days she wouldn't bark because she didn't understand why some idiot was dancing around in a funny suit trying to antagonize her - ie: she knew the person was not a real threat. When he tapped her toes with a stick, she got into the game and started to bark at him. She was having fun barking and we got her to stay in front of me and bark loudly, as she loves to bark for fun anyways. So she learned that strange people are fun to bark at and if I had kept up with it, I could have added a command and had a simple type of PP Dog. And most criminals will back away from a barking dog.

Simple type of PP Dog, no stress on the dog, she's great with kids and people and animals, super family dog, and if I wanted to, she could bark for protection.

I think that is the type of PP Dog that most families want/need anyways. The average person doesn't need a dog that will bite. Barking can be almost as effective for the average citizen. Plus the liability of an untrained "yard dog" is eliminated, so the dog can be a part of the family and protect his family as well. Less bitten children who accidently stick fingers through fences or from dogs who escape yards and run loose. Most happy, family dogs can make great barking bluff dogs and the dog just thinks it is a fun game.

Thoughts and comments?


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## Luna Wolf

*Non-stressful barking-bluff dog*

sorry, computer issues, deleting duplicate post


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## Luna Wolf

*Non-stressful barking-bluff dog*



David Frost said:


> <<Highly>>
> 
> They can call it a bluff dog if they like, but let's call it what it is. That type of behavior is fear based, nothing more. I wouldn't think that would be a good PPD.
> 
> DFrost


A bluff doesn't have to be fear based. A great bluff dog can be trained that the barking at the "suspect" is a fun game. You can start with bringing out the defence in the dog and then you build the confidence so that the dog is playing a "game". Barking ferociously at the suspect becomes a fun game that does not negatively stress the dog.

When I took my 7 year old chow mix to "dog school" with me, we practiced aggitation and decoy work with her. For 2 days she wouldn't bark because she didn't understand why some idiot was dancing around in a funny suit trying to antagonize her - ie: she knew the person was not a real threat. When he tapped her toes with a stick, she got into the game and started to bark at him. She was having fun barking and we got her to stay in front of me and bark loudly, as she loves to bark for fun anyways. So she learned that strange people are fun to bark at and if I had kept up with it, I could have added a command and had a simple type of PP Dog. And most criminals will back away from a barking dog.

Simple type of PP Dog, no stress on the dog, she's great with kids and people and animals, super family dog, and if I wanted to, she could bark for protection.

I think that is the type of PP Dog that most families want/need anyways. The average person doesn't need a dog that will bite. Barking can be almost as effective for the average citizen. Plus the liability of an untrained "yard dog" is eliminated, so the dog can be a part of the family and protect his family as well. Less bitten children who accidently stick fingers through fences or from dogs who escape yards and run loose. Most happy, family dogs can make great barking bluff dogs and the dog just thinks it is a fun game.

Thoughts and comments?


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