# mixed feelings



## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Its that time of year when the wild dog packs are training their pups. They have been causing havoc on the farm livestock. neighbours maremas have been working overtime and getting bit to hell.

in a normal season only about 2 pups in a litter will survive but this year 5-8 pups are surviving per litter.

one old lady watched her pet whippet get torn apart in her front yard just metres from her house and 3 pets have been killed all within a mile of my house, another pet got its photo in the paper with 8 drains in it after an attack, the owner was right there where it happened.

a massive baiting (10-80) is well under way along with trapping and shooting.

my old girl has bought them in before when in season, the dogs are mainly hybrids and lack the natural fear of humans that pure dingoes have.

interesting watching the pup, his territorial nature and sharpness is coming out, he started running the perimeter.

the mixed feelings come about while listening to the packs howl followed by the gunfire and the barks of the lurchers, see pic in my gallery and threads.

the problem would be far less if only people kept their dogs on their own property and desexed. this things are dangerous and are clashing with the community so they gotta go no doubt, but if ya didn't feel something in the middle of the slaughter you would have to lack a heart.

rant off.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

A .243, .270 or 22/.250 are good instruments to assist in alleviating such a problem. 

DFrost


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

all of the above lol, the people with firearms aren't the ones getting their pets killed in their front yard though.


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## Christina Kennedy (Aug 25, 2010)

That is a crappy thing for sure....And a shitty way to die (ravaged by a lurcher...) hopefully the guns get them first.

Do the people who are getting their pets killed know how to successfully use a firearm for hunting?


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

Kind of how I feel about feral cats, lead poisoning in the right dose and trapping seems to knock them down yearly as well around these parts once the frost breaks. We recently had a pack of very large bold coyotes come through feeding on anything smaller than a lab, after a tense couple weeks they moved on, a few less cats and free roaming small and medium dogs to their credit. 

It's sad that it comes to this cycle of boom and bust but that is nature. It's not their fault but a gun is much kinder than the other options available in most cases.

Do most of the hunters down there bark them in? rabbit calls? bait? all of the above?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

can certainly understand the problems ... but don't understand why people never seem to accept responsibility for causing them in the first place  

Mother nature handles the problems of interbreeding and overcrowding just fine when left alone ... PEOPLE screw up the balance and then, after the damage is done, consider it their duty to "eradicate" the "invasions" of these evil and nasty creatures no matter what the species, and the ends always seemed to justify whatever means

either we correct the problem at the origin or deal with it as best you can 
- but don't blame the invaders whether it's feral cats or feral dogs


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Thanx thought u would all laugh for being a tree hugger or sumthin, Chris. in these specific cases owners did not own firearms, gun laws make it harder as well but thats another thread.

Mel. yes they bark them in, we have one genuine humane hunter who cage traps and shoots them in cage or just shoots to kill, some angry farmers want some payback first.

Rick see why i am having difficulty replying a PM from a few months back.

cheers all.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

My friend in NC told me that his neighbor's boxer is always running loose in a well to do neighborhood in the mountains. One day the dog would not get off the floor and seemed to be in major pain. The dogs' nut sack was the size of a grapefruit and when taken to the vet it was discovered that someone apparently put a rubber band tightly around the upper sack area much like you would do to castrate a bull. 

I guess the castrater either felt de-nutting the dog would stop its' roaming, or was just pissed about the dog being loose. Either way, the dog is sans nut sack now. Too much damage had occurred and he had to be fixed. The neighbor learned a lesson at the expense of his dog enduring the pain.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Sorry to go a bit off subject but Im going to be moving in the spring to a house with a bit more land and backs up to protected land. I have seen several coyotes since I have been working on the house. My daughters and wife want a smaller l terrier, due to several of the recommendations I got from this board I think we are going to be looking for a Boarder Terrier pup. They also want a kitten or two when we move in-in the spring.
 I haven’t said anything to them yet, but I am a bit concerned about the coyotes needing an easy lunch.
 I am letting a few local guys deer hunt on the property and they have seen but not got any cleat shoots at the coyote. Got to admit I really don’t really know if I want them taken out. I mean there really not bothering me in anyway… yet, no one is going to eat them. I wish these coyote would gang up and take some of these deer out, just had one run into my car a few weeks ago. Owned the car for 30 hours and it had 300 miles on it. Still did not get it back yet. 

So do you think my larger dogs will keep the coyotes far enough away to not eat pups and cats? Or is it likely the coyotes will risk there life for an easy lunch? Im kinda thinking the easy lunch.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Our dogmen or doggers work overtime in some areas, trapping, shooting and baiting wild dogs and some farmers are starting to use guardian dogs, but acerages are huge in a lot of cases. Sheepdog bithches on heat sometimes attract them in. I havent heard of hunting them with lurchers, hope the wild dogs are shot rather than mauled to death. Most are baited trapped and shot by professional doggers and farmers. 

Most land holders round here including myself have a gun. I use mine mainly for putting down sheep if required and any feral cats I trap but I really dont enjoy hunting and shooting things, but my neighbours do and are happy to come and do vermin control on my property for me and are very good shots, so death is clean and fast. I would shoot a wild dog if I had to to protect my sheep and dogs but fortunately I havent so far had any problem. I dont bait because of my own dogs.

Every christmas we get lots and lots of christmas gift puppies dumped along our major highways that travel through national parks and farming land on the way to holiday areas. People just boot em out the car to fend for themselves, sometimes with a bowl of water WTF! It is really sickening. People are limitless in their stupidity.

Many baits are laid to kill these pups. I have had several friends lose dog when they stopped on the side of the road to let their dogs out to do their business, and picked up a bait. I never let my dogs out except on a leash while travelling through national park areas and station country.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Chris,

I live in a rural area with lot's of wildlife, I haven't had any problems and my wife's damn cat is still alive. I have 5 dogs at the moment and seems to keep most wild and domestic animals from comming around except for the deer. That being said, coyotes will try to lure a dog into the bush so the pack can gang up on it. The couple of times I've seen it happen, my dog must have known there were more waiting they just chased a lone coyote to the tree line and stopped.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I sell a good number of dogs to people that have coyote problems, lions and such where they have kids. Sold a couple to some folks in Montana.. They had a 170 lb Newf got packed by coyotes. The dales stopped the packing but one lost an eye in the fight. Newf was a mess but made it home. Losing the eye never phased the one dog or slowed him down from what the folks said.


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## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

I've never had much trouble, though you can hear them just in the treeline off of our property and you know they want to come for the chickens. We had two dogs (a wolf hybrid and a pit bull mix) that we put outside of the fence at night and that kept things quiet. I have since had young dogs (5-6 months+) kenneled and chained on the same property and sometimes alone and have never had a problem.

Never had an outside cat be injured or killed either.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Not a fan of using poison on anything. To slow and to easy for the wrong critters to get hold of it. 
22/250 would be my choice. I've still got the first gun I ever bought. 222 Remington I bought at Western Auto as a kid. Great varmit rifle but a bit light in flight for anything substantial.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Not a fan of using poison on anything. To slow and to easy for the wrong critters to get hold of it.
> 22/250 would be my choice. I've still got the first gun I ever bought. 222 Remington I bought at Western Auto as a kid. Great varmit rifle but a bit light in flight for anything substantial.


I am not a fan either of poison, but over here native wildlife is immune to the poison we use as it is common in native plants. It only targets foxes, rabbits, wild dogs, feral cats and of course dometsic dogs.

It really is the only practical option given the terrain and the vast areas in a lot of cases aerial baiting is used. Large vermin are often killed using high powered rifles from choppers.

I have a 22 which is quite adequate for my needs, not being particularly keen on guns, but one has to be practical and I dont use baits on my property.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I knew of an area in Illinois where people would poach a deer, let it lie, then send their dogs on the coyotes when they came in to feed. Also heard they would put a pan of antifreeze near the deer carcass.

Varminting is a blast. Some places allow electronic calls and night hunting.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> I knew of an area in Illinois where people would poach a deer, let it lie, then send their dogs on the coyotes when they came in to feed. Also heard they would put a pan of antifreeze near the deer carcass.
> 
> Varminting is a blast. Some places allow electronic calls and night hunting.


A cold night, full moon, chicken pieces parts and an electronic rabbit in distress call makes for a fun evening. Adult beverages are NOT permitted until the shootin' is over and the guns are cased. 

DFrost


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Never could or will understand killing for the sake of killing.

There is no thrill in killing.


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## Dominic Rozzi (Aug 2, 2009)

Randy Allen said:


> Never could or will understand killing for the sake of killing.
> 
> There is no thrill in killing.


really if you leave them unchecked they will become more and more of a problem,,,countless stories about domestic dogs large and small getting it from a single or pack of yotes---honestly let your hunters take out some on your property they do trememdous damage to deet herds---and domestic farm animals and pets

in canada there was a young women attacked and killed by a pack----it really isn't killing for the thrill and some point the economics factor will also come into play, the cause a lot of problems and the problem will get worse if unchecked


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Dominic Rozzi said:


> in canada there was a young women attacked and killed by a pack


Can you cite that? Was it a pack of dogs or pack of coyotes?


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/28/ns-coyote-attack-died.html 

I'm thinking this is the story.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Randy Allen said:


> Never could or will understand killing for the sake of killing.
> 
> There is no thrill in killing.


Can't say I disagree. That however does not mean there aren't things that need killed for one reason or the other. I'm not vegan and while I like my beef rare -- well you know, it must meet it's destiny. To the cattle farmer, a loss of a calf is off his bottom line. Running meat off of beef cattle is not why the rancher feeds them. Sometimes, it's necessary.

DFrost


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

David, yr last post is a bit more measured than that of you and Howard's previous. I believe Randy was reacting to yr previous.

BTW in the latest update 3 pets just got shot by some young guys having a good time killin anything they could get a bead on. 

dogs they shot were fox terrier show dogs wandered only 50m from the camp site of a retired couple.

young guys heard of the cull in progress so they thought they would get in on the fun.

police are just working out exactly what charges to lay.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've had a good time at a funeral as well. Doesn't mean I was glad the person died. 

DFrost


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

And you didn't plan to and execute them either. 
You were there to celebrate their life not for extinguishing it. (hmm, thou I think can think a few I have celebrated in their expedited end)

But more to the point, taking pleasure in a slaughter just for the sheer joy of killing is something that completely escapes my senses or measure in the world. 
That we need in one form or other, to kill or feed on the dead to survive just like everything else on the planet, nor that because we're the top of the food chain mean we should be taking pleasure in the killing of another life even if we don't feel that life is equal to our own. They had a life, no matter ignoble it might have been.
After all, are they so different than you or I who are just looking for the easiest meal or marking our territory? The only difference is we don't do it face to face. We do it safely from afar via rifles, traps or poisons.
I'll never apologize for feeling bad about killing for whatever the reason. And I never do it it lightly. 
(as I sit here eating my rib eye roast)


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

I hate killing things but I will kill something that is either suffering or inflicting death on countless other defenceless native australian wildlife (under seige from feral cats and foxes). Unfortunately humans originally caused this problem. Killings thing bothers me greatly, something I had to resolve when deciding to farm sheep.

However quite a few of my male friends love a good night hunt spotlighting, if numbers of foxes and rabbits etc are increasing. I went along once and that was enough. I think they probably thought I was a real pain anyway as I had to inspect everything to make sure it was quite dead, which was lucky in a few cases as a few animals wernt quite dead.


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

There was a problem with feral cats once in my area. Not just a few, I'm talking about 80+ cats.Mangy, starved, ain't afraid of raiding a chicken coop or stealing from a dog's food dish cats. I had no issues dispatching them one by one, sometimes 2 cats a day.I shot and killed of all but 6 of them( and those were left intentionally, trying to keep a balance) We all have to know where the line in the sand needs to be drawn. When feral/wild animals start negatively impacting on human life & surroundings, steps need to be taken to effectively and humanely resolve the problem(or at the very least restore the balance by reducing their numbers or teaching them their boundaries)


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## mike finn (Jan 5, 2011)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Can you cite that? Was it a pack of dogs or pack of coyotes?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/28/taylor-mitchell-singerson_n_337836.html This is an article about one such attack. I have read that by not hunting wolves bears and other predaters, some may lose their natural fear of humans and become aggressive. It is an interesting theory but I am not sure I buy it. I have had a problem with ferrel dogs here. There was a pack roaming around that killed my wifes little kick dog, our cat and over fifty chickens. My wife tried to chase one off and it ended up chasing her into the house. The wild thing about it was, that perticular dog knew what a gun was. If you did not have one he would not run, but if he saw a gun, he wads gone. I was able to get close enough to shoot him by hiding the gun behind my back. We ended up shooting all the dogs in the pack. The amount of deer seemed to increase dramaticaly with in a year.


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