# Mismate shot?



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

So my ugly male GSD (when I say ugly it's not just looks, the dog doesn't have any redeemable qualities and no papers) was tied with my female...he's neutered as of 2 weeks or so ago. Not that my bitch isn't old enough for pups since she's 2.5 - but I don't want these pups. 
I let them out so I could move their crates to vacuum underneath. He hadn't been showing any interest and his lack of nuts seemed to be a good enough reason to let them out and do my cleaning - wtf was I thinking?
What's the chance that dipshit there was shooting blanks? 
Anyone had experience with the mismate shot? This just happened so...if I can prevent the little plug uglies, I'd much rather do that, but I also don't want to make my bitch sterile.

Ideas?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kudos to owning up to the problem.  Many, many people would say, "oh well...at least they are purebred!" and sell each for $500 on whatever website BYBers are using these days...

There's an 8 times more likely chance she'll get pyometra after the "mismating shot" and from what I understand, the bitch pretty much must be bred on the next cycle due to the high level of estrogens (I think the mechanism is somewhat similar to how female ferrets must be bred each cycle or they can have fatal bone marrow suppression, if there are any ferret people in the audience). So that older protocol is currently not recommended. If she is not going to be used as a breeding animal, they now typically wait approximately 3 weeks into gestation to terminate the pregnancy with a spay. The idea is to let the increased vascularity of the uterus in estrus to subside without the fetuses being large enough to be problematic. 

That is also to say if he was still capable of producing viable spermatozoa. I've heard of neutered males still being able to mate and tie with an intact female in estrus, but I need to read up on when the amount of viable cells basically goes to zero. I'll try to PM you by tomorrow.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Thanks. I do not want to spay her, we had it worked out for her to be bred her next heat cycle (she came in really early this time, she was just in heat in May and now again in September, so I'm hoping it's one of those lucky infertile cycles, but I'm not holding my breath either) but that wasn't planned until November - when she should have come in heat - and this is the first time she's had an early heat, normally she goes every 6 months.

I'm in the process of rehoming the male anyway, I finally decided that he's not going to be what I want and I don't want to spend the money shipping a dog overseas that I don't have any use for. Hence neutering him and finding him a pet home.
I thought it might be that he could still have some viable swimmers up there, from what I read it can last 2-3 weeks or something like that. 

I guess the mismate shot is out, because now I'm not sure when she'll be back in heat so I'm going to have to wait and figure it out with the male she was supposed to be bred to in November - and I don't want to deal with a uterine infection over what might be nothing. I'm very un-f'ing happy right about now, but it's my own damn fault. 

If I end up with pups I'll sell them off for whatever it costs me to get them their first shots and a vet visit - I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, I just really don't want them at all.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Or the last season could of been a false heat where she didn't ovulate. I'd guess that would be more likely since she has come in again after 8-12 weeks. I'd let her have the pups and do with them what you feel comfortable. If she was mine, I'd let her whelp over giving the shot if it's a future breeding female.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I talked to hubby about it. Looks like he's not pissed about accidental pups like I figured he might be - his response:

Oh how cute, you can sell them all.

I checked my calendar. She came in January, then the first week of May, and now again Sept 4th. 

Thanks, I read different opinions on the mismate shot. One of my friends swears by it, others say it's a real bad deal. I think the risk of a nasty infection is worse than dealing with an oops litter.


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

i know when you fix a stallion you can get them proud cut. basically it allows them to do everything a stallion can do ( including act like an ass) without producing sperm. they are shooting blanks.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

sam wilks said:


> i know when you fix a stallion you can get them proud cut. basically it allows them to do everything a stallion can do ( including act like an ass) without producing sperm. they are shooting blanks.


Yeah proud cut is a bit different. Horses have glands further up on the uhm, tube things (<-- technical term there) that if you don't cut above with the emasculators, it leaves them acting the fool and breeding mares, the benefit is they still retain the hormones and masculine look - the down side is - they're assholes. But even a gelding still has viable sperm for 3-4 weeks after castration, since whatever's left up the tubes and such. I don't think the same thing applies to dogs but I could be wrong. I've assisted with a lot of geldings but never with dogs.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Yeah proud cut is a bit different. Horses have glands further up on the uhm, tube things (<-- technical term there) that if you don't cut above with the emasculators, it leaves them acting the fool and breeding mares, the benefit is they still retain the hormones and masculine look - the down side is - they're assholes.


Yeah I can vouche for that . I had a vasectomy and I'm still an asshole .


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

sam wilks said:


> i know when you fix a stallion you can get them proud cut. basically it allows them to do everything a stallion can do ( including act like an ass) without producing sperm. they are shooting blanks.


Erm, no, not exactly. Being proud cut usually refers to one of two things. The first is that one testis was missed (usually because he was cryptorchid), so he can still act like a stallion because he has the influence of the extra testosterone. This sort of thing usually pops up when someone sells a horse as a gelding when he's really not because the other is in the abdomen or wherever. When an owner watches their horse get gelded, the vet will often show them both testes once they are out to show he was truly gelded (testosterone is produced by the testes, not by the tubules). The other is that a stallion gelded after he was used as a breeding animal still may exhibit a lot of the same rather obnoxious behavior traits as a learned behavior that he exhibited before castration.

Ashley, from the reading I did today, it seems like the spermatozoa can indeed still be stored for up to 2 weeks in the epididymis and so on (where it is normally stored to finalize maturation). I still need to e-mail my theriogenology professor to double check though....


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## Erynn Lucas (Dec 10, 2008)

Agreed that the sperm can be stored for up to 4 weeks, but most vets won't give a mismate shot. The bitch would be a much GREATER risk of developing pyometra. Culling the puppies would be safer for the bitch.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Jim Nash said:


> Yeah I can vouche for that . I had a vasectomy and I'm still an asshole .


Yeah but look at the bright (perv) side - that's like free advertisement for no baby-making sex...lol.

As for "culling" the litter, what did the previous poster mean by that? Having them put down or culling as in making sure they won't ever reproduce? I'm not particularly comfortable with culling healthy puppies (birth defected ones don't get a chance though) other than trying to insure they don't make more. Not that I haven't seen and heard of culling pups by drowning them and other nasty things, but I can't bring myself to kill healthy animals.


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