# Smaller dog/puppy aggression



## Samantha Martinez (May 23, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I wanted to know if any of you guys have had to deal with your Mal being aggressive to smaller dogs/puppies for no absolute reason. 

Everyone once in a while I'll take Princess to the dog park usually after around 7 pm when no one is there so she can run around and do as she pleases conflict free. But to my surprise after I had let her loose and she was wondering around there were these 2 small girls with 4 puppies/small dogs on leashes and loose in the Big Dog section of the park that were off to a corner running around. Princess was fine until the girl started screaming bloody murder basically (could have ruptured an ear drum with her screams) because Princess went to sniff the dogs/puppies. As soon as she screamed Princess snapped and took after one of the small dogs basically barking, growling and pawing the dog but she never tried to bite the dog.

She was socialized since I got her with all sized dogs which is why I don't understand her behavior. With some small dogs she is perfectly fine all playful and calm, and with others she just wants to rip em' to shreds. Any insight would be much appreciated.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

a few points to consider even tho not directly related to your question :
- little kids are MUCH more unpredictable than dogs
- NEVER trust them to be predictable (or even good) around dogs and always have your dog under control around little kids
- if you want to take your dog to a dog park, spend more time outside looking in before you enter, and don't let your dog off lead if it doesn't have a rock solid recall. 
** if you had immediately recalled your dog no incident would have happened. if you say your dog HAS a solid recall, you were probably way late in giving the command, or you have never proofed it well enuff 

dealing with DA ... 
-- another matter, lots of factors involved, and nearly impossible for me to comment on without seeing the dog and handler out and about


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

btw, I realize recalls are not easy to train in real world conditions, but it CAN be done and if you don't train for it, don't expect it to be solid when you need it to be


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I would NEVER bring a dog to a dog park period...
unless it was outside the fence for exposure.

solution, dont bring dog to dog park, a dog park is not really a place for a mal X gsd in my mind anyhow.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

certainly nothing wrong with this advice either :
"I would NEVER bring a dog to a dog park period...
unless it was outside the fence for exposure."

i spend 95% of my time with dogs OUTSIDE the fence and the only park i use i know most all the dogs that go there on a regular basis

fights and bites can be triggered no matter how well "socialized" the dog is. with that said, the term is used pretty loosely by a lot of people i deal with, so i don't give it much credibility when i hear it


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I would NEVER bring a dog to a dog park period...
> unless it was outside the fence for exposure.
> 
> solution, dont bring dog to dog park, a dog park is not really a place for a mal X gsd in my mind anyhow.


agreed....BIG time!

Your dogs prey drive might have been triggered, but it doesn't really matter because she's not under your control, other dogs and people darting around...not good. And don't blame the gal who screamed - your dog was not under your control, something your dog did scared her, so she screamed, period. Dog parks suck, most people who frequent dog parks stand around talking to one another and ignore the dogs. Your dog doesn't need it and neither do you.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: kids screaming

it is OFTEN not the dog's fault :-(

little kids scream for all kinds of reasons...it's what they do...many just like to scream. it's a way to vent and show excitement. they haven't learned how to control their emotions. at least 2-3 times a month kids shriek when they walk by and see my dog laying down next to me when i'm having coffee. the dog isn't doing a damn thing to make em scream except EXISTING :-(

it's bigger than most dogs they see, maybe that might be another reason, but who cares...any decent dog should be able to handle it, and if it can't, train your damn dog

MANY little kids act like they love dogs and are not afraid of dogs, but that is only when they are under momma or poppa's wings and right next to them. if they've wandered a few steps away they freak out and scream when they see a dog. if you haven't seen that happen you don't get out in public enuff.
- NOTHING to do with the dog triggering anything

i simply motion for the parent to quiet their kid; sometimes they do and sometimes they pretend not to see :-(

similar to handling joggers who are glued to their music and charging past you and your dog

but i would hope there might be a few parents here with dogs and little kids who understand this simple fact about kids and have seen it happen

i still say : don't trust kids if you don't know em
- common sense. basic dog safety


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"but to my surprise"


There in a nutshell is why problems happen in dog parks. 
Not ragging on you but it's just not worth it.It doesn't matter how well your dog is trained or how good a handler you are because you have absolutely no control over the other dogs and the turd stuck to the other end of their leash.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

You say your dog was pawing and barking and growling,i did not see it but was the dog trying to play?What other body language did she use?


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

rick smith said:


> re: kids screaming
> 
> it is OFTEN not the dog's fault :-(
> 
> ...


There's really good advice on the side of match boxes and lighters:

"Keep away from children"

Good advice indeed


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I think the first thing I would have done is find the parent - assuming there was one there and if not then speak to the girls - and ask how much longer they were going to be using the Big Dog section. This would have occured BEFORE bring in your dog. I would then have told them I was going to be bringing in a big dog and they might want to shift over to the other section. I've taken my dogs to dog parks but you really have to be on your toes. In all probablility your dog may not have had any issues until the scream caused your dog to go into an alert mode and preceive that there was a threat or a need to be in a more protective mode. I really hate the high screech screamers myself and even they set me on edge and make me nervous so I really can't expect that my dog would be so different.
And once the screaming started, it's hard to bring stuff down to a zero base again. I don't think you need to stop going to dog parks but take this as a lesson learned. The other thing to consider that if you keep up with dog sport work, that you will find your and your dog's perceptions/behavior changing. Remember to keep up with them.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

if you want to take your pet to a dog park be selective

some are well designed and well managed. they are fine and the world needs more of them to keep dogs from running loose in public. people can have fun. dogs can have fun. that's fine with me too cause that's what a lot of dogs and people need in their life. the people that volunteer to work at the good one i use are hard workers and i respect them. i am too lazy to do that myself 
- i see lots of people who bring dogs that are not allowed to go inside the park

imo, AS A TRAINER, they are good places to bring a dog around other dogs and keep them separated. MANY dogs need that kind of training because many dogs can't handle being around dogs off leash and just the sight of dogs running loose triggers problems. our dog park people understand this. ....they also know what barrier aggression means and they also know that just because a dog is running and barking doesn't mean it is aggressive 

the OP's problem could have happened anyplace. it's not the "evil dog park's" fault :-(

if you have a dog with any level of dog aggression you WON'T fix it by staying away from dog parks, or isolating your dog from other dog's and other people, and you might not be able to fix it by yourself. 

to the OP :
1. get help from someone who knows what they are doing and has references from people they have helped
2. realize that it might include teaching you and your dog how to interact with other dogs and other people rather than how to isolate your dog or simply teach you how to redirect bad behaviors with strict OB control
3. K.I.S.S. !!!! teach your dog a recall and you will solve a lot of other problems too


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

rick smith said:


> re: kids screaming
> 
> it is OFTEN not the dog's fault :-(
> 
> ...


unfortunately i have found that it's best to assume that any kid who wants to meet my dog might still freak out when they get right in her face. even "big kids", like 11+ can be terrified of dogs and react like a horse whose head got stuck in a cooler right out of the blue. sometimes the parents make it worse by forcing them to not be scared and demanding that the kid pet the dog--one Mom we know dragged the little girl's hand and placed it on my dog while her daughter cried and shrieked and tried to flee. her statement was that she didn't want her kid to be afraid of things--i think that girl is now much more frightened of us after that than she was before.
none of this bothers my dog--she is awesome with children and the smaller they are, the more she wants to give kisses and say hello. the only problem we've ever actually had--whether they are screaming or running around the playground or whatever--is when the other kids are either crowding or chasing my daughter. my dog does not care for that AT ALL, and it causes her to switch modes and become protective and hypervigilant, but she is on a leash so at least i know she won't cause problems just because her wire has been tripped.
kids are such wildcards that i think any dog could have some kind of unplanned reaction with them--especially when it's not to your kid, but to someone else's--and you just have to be careful so your dog doesn't end up in a bad spot.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

dog parks and working dogs arent usually a good mix. The best way to avoid those kinds of problems is to protect your dog from being put in that position. Sometimes you have to pick your battles carefully...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: "one Mom we know dragged the little girl's hand and placed it on my dog while her daughter cried and shrieked and tried to flee. her statement was that she didn't want her kid to be afraid of things--i think that girl is now much more frightened of us after that than she was before."

IMO you should NEVER have allowed that to happen in the first place ](*,)

when i do allow other people (kids or bigger) to touch my dog, it is after i take their hand and hold it while they touch pet or whatever.
- they never touch a customer's dog when i have it out. NEVER

Sooooo freaking simple and TOTAL control of the interaction by the dog handler. best and ONLY way i allow that to happen; and it doesn't happen often

agree in principle with what Brian posted. but with that said, the longer i have been on this forum the more i think people with working dogs are just as clueless as pet owners when it comes to safely handling dogs in public. i have read MANY times that their advice is avoidance, don't go, don't interact, separate, keep others away from your dog, etc etc etc

IMO that is NOT training advice at all if you are one of the few people who actually DO take your working dog out in real world areas besides your training field.

i keep harping on the importance of a solid recall. Sooooo freaking simple. your dog can do NO harm if it is hurriedly running back to you. nor can any other clueless person or other dog bother you or your dog. END OF PROBLEM. period
....and that is only one of many "go to" tools you should have at the ready

99% of everyone i train with has a crappy recall that only works when the owner is in an empty lot or dangling a toy to bribe the dog with. so that is why i require their dogs to be put back ON LEAD "until further notice" //lol//


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## Samantha Martinez (May 23, 2014)

Thanks for the insight, Im not a fan either of dog parks which is why I like to taker her late in the day, I always notice its with the smaller and submisive dogs that she reacts like that.

One of the main things I have noticed that she does is as soon as the smaller dog/puppy starts to whimper and start to run that gets her more hyped up, so is it caused by aggression or could it be prey drive kicking in?


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Samantha Martinez said:


> Thanks for the insight, Im not a fan either of dog parks which is why I like to taker her late in the day, I always notice its with the smaller and submisive dogs that she reacts like that.
> 
> One of the main things I have noticed that she does is as soon as the smaller dog/puppy starts to whimper and start to run that gets her more hyped up, so is it caused by aggression or could it be prey drive kicking in?


if it were aggression the fur would be flying.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

It's most likely her prey drive being triggered, but without actually seeing her in action, that's just a guess. It could also be a combination of things, she's not much more than a puppy herself, she might be experiencing a rush of hormones, she might just be getting so amped up she doesn't know how to handle it and spazzes out. 

Personally, I see no reason to socialize my dogs with strange dogs. I prefer my dogs not interact with strange dogs and ignore them instead. 

In any case, you've recently started going out to an IPO/Ring club with the idea of training/titling in sport? Those are the people you need to speak to about whether or not she's acting out of aggression/prey/whatever, and what to do about it because they have eyes on your dog. Remember too, that what's good for dogs that are companion animals only is not always good for sport/working dogs....especially young ones, so the people in your club will be able to help you without screwing up the dog for sport. 

The WORST thing you could do at this point is to take the advise of a pet trainer with an agenda.


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## Jessica Hodges (May 16, 2014)

I agree that dog parks aren't the best environment; especially for working dogs. But, what is an alternative for leash free runs?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

nevermind, not important.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I've used school yards and athletic fields after hours. Also large business parks are good if you have a good recall (no fences if your dog gets away) and use their back parking areas or grassy areas. I've also used tennis courts. Regular parks if you tuck yourself away from the high traffic areas. Also horse venues with their horse rings and jump areas.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sarah Platts said:


> I've used school yards and athletic fields after hours. Also large business parks are good if you have a good recall (no fences if your dog gets away) and use their back parking areas or grassy areas. I've also used tennis courts. Regular parks if you tuck yourself away from the high traffic areas. Also horse venues with their horse rings and jump areas.


I agree, you can get creative, get to know your area, find the out of the way, less traveled spots. 

Like Sarah said, you do need to have a rock solid recall, until then, long walks/runs on a long line!


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

rick smith said:


> re:
> IMO you should NEVER have allowed that to happen in the first place ](*,)
> 
> yes, i must admit that i was kind of paralyzed by her crazy as it held court...my dog was impassive to the tears, was looking at me, i told her "friends" which is what i tell her whenever i am making an introduction with someone of whom i have the expectation of niceties, and i was stroking my dog's neck while this insistent woman held her kid's hand to my dog like a bad permutation of a live flame. the moment physical contact was made--palm to fur--the Mom released her squalling child and my dog and i withdrew to the other side of the bench.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Catherine Gervin said:


> rick smith said:
> 
> 
> > re:
> ...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

There is one item that has not been addressed.

We were in the horse arena (Winter) for training. My colleague brought in his small pup (12-14 weeks or so) whilst my Briard, a very neutral dog, was free. The pup was the only one in the litter and our trainer said "this pup has never seen other dogs". This might have been the reason but I do not think so.

The Briard approached the pup whereby the pup started screaming and ran off, the Briard moving after it, always faster. I called the Briard back as I had a bad feeling.

Don't forget that pups in the wild that leave the litter and approach another pack, will most often be killed.

I noticed with a 4-month old pup, my Briard started to stare at it. I couldn't see the reason but I removed the Briard.

I have since noticed that my GSD had problems with weak or frightened dogs.

I think this could go much deeper than just encountering dogs being lead out by children.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Whereby I would say the answers are completely correct.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Within the past month or so there was a Great Dane that killed a Golden Retriever at a dog park near here. 
The owners were "SO" surprised. It was over in a matter of seconds. ](*,)


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

every owner who came to me with a dog who bit someone always told me it "happened so fast" and "came out of nowhere"

learning how to read a dog and recognize behavior changes is not always easy to do. if it was there wouldn't be a dog trainer under every rock 

i will say that for every dog that kills a dog at a dog park, there are hundreds of thousands who don't. similar to people


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

i think, with animals just as with people--who are, incidentally, really animals after all--there is always the propensity for them to show you something you've never seen before. there are indicators, there are sometimes warning signs and sometimes not, but any organism that survives by adapting must posses the capability to change. people who never saw it coming perhaps assume too much about how well they know their dog but also there is the likelihood that the dog never did such a thing before...first time for everything and whatnot. all anyone can do with their dog is expose it to life as much as possible and strive for a good relationship with their animal--trust your dog to be a dog, and dogs aren't machines.
i say this having a dog who has problems--still major problems, unfortunately--being around other dogs of all sizes without trying to kill them.
we do not go to dog parks, and we wouldn't go even if she were civil, but that is more a commentary about me than my dog because i don't want to stand around and do the small talk thing with random strangers while my dog runs around like a feckless social butterfly.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

i must augment my statement to include the fact that i meant training one's own dog to go without saying-- trust the dog to be a dog, but train the dog to behave the way you expect your dog to behave. lots of untrained dogs zooming merrily around in dog parks can't do anything but test how well my dog's training has been taken to heart. in our case, my control and training goes right out the window.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Unfortunately, you have to contend with more than your dog. Alot of owners take the attitude of let them (the dogs) sort out their own squabbles. To a small degree they are not wrong but I've run into many dogs that were raised as a solo dog and, for want of a better term, don't know how to behave as a dog. Since they have never been with other dogs they don't know the social nuances of polite doggie behavior.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHZYp2lCNjw


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHZYp2lCNjw


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

brian mcquain said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzyp2lcnjw



+1 x 100


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

after i posted this : "i spend 95% of my time with dogs OUTSIDE the fence"
... and then I watched that ME vid at the dog park
... it made me feel better.
tx for posting it

my only comment is we have a LOT more dogs running loose at the park I use 
...and that one was poorly designed from the get go


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Dogparks (the scurge of the dogworld) have the amazing ability to wake up a person to what their dog is and will pull them out of their dreamworld.

Its a good training tool to see if you really have the control over your dog that you think you have and its pretty much always a slap in the face of the owner since the dog they thought they had turns out to be quite something else.

I don't go to dogparks or play areas and I do not let my dogs offleash in areas where dogs are roaming free to be idiots. Not because I don't trust my dogs, I simply do not trust the idiot ****up owners that think they have control over their dogs. 

There is one critical rule that people forget when visiting a dog park. Its not so much the worry you should have about your dog but about the other dogs that are out there... the ones that you can't control in their actions and that will do what they like as their idiot owners stand by the side of the fence, doing nothing at all to retain or correct their dogs. 

Dogparks are for pet owners... working dogs have no place at a dog park... Wanna have fun with your dog? Wanna let him roam free? Find a closed of area where he can go off leash. Do not force your dog into a dogpark and then stand there looking confused when everything goes to hell... It ends up in your dog getting blamed for something you could have simply avoided by not putting your dog into a situation where you have no control over anything.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Dogparks (the scurge of the dogworld) have the amazing ability to wake up a person to what their dog is and will pull them out of their dreamworld.
> 
> Its a good training tool to see if you really have the control over your dog that you think you have and its pretty much always a slap in the face of the owner since the dog they thought they had turns out to be quite something else.
> 
> ...



and thats a wrap folks ... NEXT!!


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Jessica Hodges said:


> I agree that dog parks aren't the best environment; especially for working dogs. But, what is an alternative for leash free runs?


school yards, baseball fields, pastures, city streets,,,,, I tend to take my dogs into areas that I think will challenge them and also proof my training at the same time. Busy city streets, busy parking lots, events with lots of people loud music etc. just keep your eyes open when you are out and about and take note of places you see that might make for some fun outings wiht the dog.


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## Samantha Martinez (May 23, 2014)

Thanks for you input everyone, I do have to look around where I live, there arent too many places were I can take her


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> I agree, you can get creative, get to know your area, find the out of the way, less traveled spots.
> 
> Like Sarah said, you do need to have a rock solid recall, until then, long walks/runs on a long line!


I agree.

One answer is to go Jogging with the dog, belt round your waist and attached to the dog's harness or collar.

Otherwise, buy a Springer attachment for your bike and off you go. Many say they are dangerous? Why? The only time the dog can pull you away is if you stop cycling!!

Toni had Gaucho (Fila) 50 Kilos on one side and Eric, (Briard) 40 Kilos on the other. No problem.

Exercising the dog means exercising yourself as well. Or why buy a dog?


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I agree.
> 
> One answer is to go Jogging with the dog, belt round your waist and attached to the dog's harness or collar.
> 
> ...


just DONT do like Brian and go jogging with an idiot ass mal and let the line get tangled in your legs when you get up to speed... yeah it was one of those kodak moments but thank god nobody got a pic of it HAHAH


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: the ME vid ....
IMO that empty lot with a low fence around it, a half ass A-frame and a couple places to sit on your ass out of the sun in NO way qualifies as a dog park. plus, they probably picked a day it was closed and brought a couple of dogs to to play the role "dog park dogs" //lol//

with that said.... there will be no convincing any of you who already have your minds made up about how dog parks are bad places to take your working dog's so i won't waste keyboard time repeating why the are necessary and good.
- trouble is, a lot of you probably can't recognize the difference between a good one and a bad one because you've probably never checked out very many
- NO on site manager is a red flag to me
- NO separated areas is another
- POORLY designed entries and exits are another
...i could go on but i'm pissing in the wind 

fwiw, i have taken MANY aggressive dogs "inside the wire" with ZERO problems, and i'm no Michael Ellis by a long shot //rotflmao

which is why i will add one more point b4 i bail too 
- MANY dogs who have fence fighting problems and other levels of barrier aggression can be fixed rather easily.
- but DO NOT always think that this means you have taken a big step towards fixing DA (if you dog IS truly DA), because it often will have NO effect when your dog is around other dogs and there is no fence or barrier
- it can be a good start, but should only be considered a part of your overall training plan

which is one way of saying i DO NOT believe you can fix DA just by working a dog who is separated from other dogs by a barrier and getting it to be non-reactive and motivated to perform simple OB drills

for Alice ... I don't try and tell you how to train for KNPV, so I see no reason why you should make that blanket statement that dog parks are no place for "working dogs" ... especially since you don't even use that tool
- i know for a fact they can be used for off lead OB drills and a few other drills for working dogs, with your dog isolated safely from all the others. iow they CAN be multi purpose facilities
AMEN

so much for this thread ... time for me to bail too 

anyway.....good luck with your small dog/puppy aggression training. let us know how you decide to do it in a new thread...later; when you have some progress to post about


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Brian Anderson said:


> just DONT do like Brian and go jogging with an idiot ass mal and let the line get tangled in your legs when you get up to speed... yeah it was one of those kodak moments but thank god nobody got a pic of it HAHAH


 The line is supposed to be taut and pullimg me.......

If the line is tangled, I'm probably too quick for the dog??


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

rick smith said:


> re: the ME vid ....
> IMO that empty lot with a low fence around it, a half ass A-frame and a couple places to sit on your ass out of the sun in NO way qualifies as a dog park. plus, they probably picked a day it was closed and brought a couple of dogs to to play the role "dog park dogs" //lol//
> 
> with that said.... there will be no convincing any of you who already have your minds made up about how dog parks are bad places to take your working dog's so i won't waste keyboard time repeating why the are necessary and good.
> ...


 
As many have pointed out, you simply can not control the other people and dogs at a dog park. Dogs dont need other dog friends, and fights do break out, regardless how well the park is set up. 

The only dog I ever brought into dog parks (multiple, all over the country) was an amazing APBT that I rescued/rehabbed, and had been used for dog fighting in beautiful Oakland CA. I took him, and only him out of the dozens of pitties Ive had for 2 reasons: 1, I used him to educate people about the breed, and most importantly, 2, he was under complete control, even when another dog, and sometimes dogs, attacked him (which happened frequently). He was 100% reliable to listen to me, even during a fight. He even stopped and stared at me after I gave the "look" command while the other dog was still on his face, shaking away. I never worried about what MY dog would do. Its always the other idiots around.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

They are just a bad idea in general. I would go to a dog park that was filled with trained dogs though...especially working dogs. Now back to reality...


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Samantha Martinez said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I wanted to know if any of you guys have had to deal with your Mal being aggressive to smaller dogs/puppies for no absolute reason.


 Well, there is a reason for the behavior to occur. My guess would be pack/ranking issue.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

The E Collar will set you free. 
Parks, dog parks, sport fields, conservation areas...doesnt matter what critters or dogs are there. If your training is half decent your good to go and the E Collar gives you the insurance for those just in case situations.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Haz Othman said:


> The E Collar will set you free.
> Parks, dog parks, sport fields, conservation areas...doesnt matter what critters or dogs are there. If your training is half decent your good to go and the E Collar gives you the insurance for those just in case situations.


Ive seen far too many dogs blow off the ecollar at the highest levels to do what they want. Ecollars are a great tool, but can't physically restrain a determined dog. Long lines are what I start with, then ecollar to proof, then nothing.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

rick smith said:


> re: the ME vid ....
> IMO that empty lot with a low fence around it, a half ass A-frame and a couple places to sit on your ass out of the sun in NO way qualifies as a dog park. plus, they probably picked a day it was closed and brought a couple of dogs to to play the role "dog park dogs" //lol//
> 
> with that said.... there will be no convincing any of you who already have your minds made up about how dog parks are bad places to take your working dog's so i won't waste keyboard time repeating why the are necessary and good.
> ...


Aw Rick.. Come on now! Don't bail on me yet! 

Nope, you don't train KNPV and yep I have plenty of reason why I make it a blanket statement. 

Dog parks (Again I shall call them the SCURGE of the dog world) are pet people areas. No matter how many people gaurd the place and stand there to keep things in check and no matter how many damn flags they are waving you simply can NOT ACCOUNT FOR STUPID PEOPLE! 90 percent of pet dog owners are FULL BLOWN IDIOTS! Again I will state that they might be good for training purposes when the need arises but that is just about all the use they have. If you take your working dog, the one that you have trained and worked on hard to get him to do what you want and you place him in between a large amount of idiots with dogs that have NO CONTROL what so ever over their dogs and that will scream blue murder at the drop of a dime for no apparant reason and it does something unexpected then who is at blame here? The dog? Or the idiot who decided it was smart to take a working dog to the park to begin with? 

Let me blanket the statement even more... Dog parks should be banned! They are a useless thing all together! There are plenty of places out there where you can take your dog, have it offleash and let it enjoy itself! There are plenty of places where dogs can interact with eachother at a much more comfortable and unforced scale. Dog parks are there because people say their dog wants to have fun and play with other dogs, he does so love his playtime at the dog park but who is the one that loves it? Is it the dog or is the owner? Who is the one proclaiming this? Its the owner who wants to see the dog have fun but simply and strangly enough the dog has fun whereever he gets to run free or play and that doesn't mean it has to be a dog park. People are stupid, its a fact of life, nothing we can do about it except maybe avoid the stupid places where they hang out in order to avoid stupid problems that could have so easily been avoided to begin with. The only thing a dog park does is slap you on the ass with a huge dose of reality when you go there expecting one thing from your dog only to discover he will do something completely different... and that only happens because you are faced with idiots who can not control their dogs. I don't care how much you say a working dog should be under your control and his recall should be solid. Recalling your dog when another dog is hot on its heals ready to bite its ass will remove said control and leave you picking up the pieces, Rick. Putting your dog in an unknown situation with unknown factors and then saying "to my surprise" Yeah right, nothing surprising about it appart maybe the lack of common sense of the owner for letting it happen to begin with...


AMEN and a big fat Hallelujah!


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Brian McQuain said:


> Ive seen far too many dogs blow off the ecollar at the highest levels to do what they want. Ecollars are a great tool, but can't physically restrain a determined dog. Long lines are what I start with, then ecollar to proof, then nothing.


So true... Seen plenty of dogs at 127 level running across field, head crooked and still moving to their destination without fail. All it does is piss off certain dogs and makes them more determined to get to where they want to go.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Brian McQuain said:


> They are just a bad idea in general. I would go to a dog park that was filled with trained dogs though...especially working dogs. Now back to reality...


that would be a different dynamic wouldnt it LOL ... the dogs would no longer be a problem ... but now we now have multiple "trainers" all in the same spot ,,,, ](*,) imagine the proverbial fur flying hahaha

thank you we now return to our regular broadcast


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Brian Anderson said:


> that would be a different dynamic wouldnt it LOL ... the dogs would no longer be a problem ... but now we now have multiple "trainers" all in the same spot ,,,, ](*,) imagine the proverbial fur flying hahaha
> 
> thank you we now return to our regular broadcast


 
Haha. Very true


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Brian McQuain said:


> Dogs dont need other dog friends, and fights do break out, regardless how well the park is set up.


This is the other thing. People think their dogs need "friends", "play dates", "dog parks" and even "doggy day care", but in actuality, nothing could be further from the truth. Goes hand in hand with "doggy fashions", and carrying around their dogs in purses all day. 

Seems like a lot of people have no limits and no shame when it comes to neurotic behavior, treating their dogs like human baby/child substitutes. Those people need dolls not dogs.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Dog parks should be torn down and the fences sold to the highest bidder.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Aw Rick.. Come on now! Don't bail on me yet!
> 
> Nope, you don't train KNPV and yep I have plenty of reason why I make it a blanket statement.
> 
> ...



Yep! Yep! My hero! 
8-[...........Just don't make eye contact with her. :grin: :wink:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Yep! Yep! My hero!
> 8-[...........Just don't make eye contact with her. :grin: :wink:


AHAHHAHA!!!!! Good one........ as I submissively belly crawl to get past her...


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Yep! Yep! My hero!
> 8-[...........Just don't make eye contact with her. :grin: :wink:





susan tuck said:


> AHAHHAHA!!!!! Good one........ as I submissively belly crawl to get past her...


:-o8-[:mrgreen:


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> This is the other thing. People think their dogs need "friends", "play dates", "dog parks" and even "doggy day care", but in actuality, nothing could be further from the truth. Goes hand in hand with "doggy fashions", and carrying around their dogs in purses all day.
> 
> Seems like a lot of people have no limits and no shame when it comes to neurotic behavior, treating their dogs like human baby/child substitutes. Those people need dolls not dogs.


Amen sister!! (as I fight the gag reflex "play dates" holy god no)


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I took my dogs to the dog park this morning. 

Hate them all you want, but if I want somewhere safe, fenced and LEGAL, to allow my dogs some off leash freedom to just be dogs for a bit, that is my only option. Bonus is that it is walking distance from my house, so I don't need to drive to get there.

I go first thing in the morning, before anyone else, so there is no issue with other dogs and other owners, though I have gone when there are one or two other people there. There's lots of space, I go off to an area away from others, let my dogs do what they need and leave.

The park fills a need in this neighbourhood. While I may use it only rarely, there are people who have happy, friendly dogs that do thrive in that environment, that need to run and play and have an outlet for high energy. I've owned those dogs before. Not everyone likes to train, not every dog enjoys training. (I do agree with Alice, having learned from experience, that a working dog, especially a high drive malinois is just a little too much for play time at the park.) If there were no demand from local dog owners, that space, used for nothing else, would just be a grassy wasteland - exactly what it was a couple of years ago when I took my dog over there to play/train and was told to leave by security because I was trespassing. 

Every park is different, every park has it's own vibe, it's own setup - from fenced compound to meandering trails through fields and woods. Don't go if it's not for you, but my dogs and I are glad they exist.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Like Leslie, I don't condemn the dog parks. In fact, I like the idea. But you have to be aware of your dog, their dogs, and be vigilant because, like people, dogs are individuals and all don't work off the same set of rules. Like children, some play nice and some don't.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> I took my dogs to the dog park this morning.
> 
> Hate them all you want, but if I want somewhere safe, fenced and LEGAL, to allow my dogs some off leash freedom to just be dogs for a bit, that is my only option. Bonus is that it is walking distance from my house, so I don't need to drive to get there.
> 
> ...


I was just at a dog park a day or two after I posted that I would not take dogs there.

I like them too, because I like dogs... Went with the GF and her 5 yr old daughter to watch and play with / pet a few dogs to expose the child to some nutty friendly if mostly untrained dogs.

here is the thing, I dont use them for my personal dogs, and dont recommend that most people use them, but then again many of the dogs I own and deal with in training are not the kinds of dogs that one should bring to a dog park anyhow...

I will admit that my Vet's office waiting room is a tad bit crazier than most dogs parks I have been to...

I dont mind either (dog parks or waiting room at vets), they are always entertaining..

At the dog park I watched a guy have to drag h


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> I took my dogs to the dog park this morning.
> 
> Hate them all you want, but if I want somewhere safe, fenced and LEGAL, to allow my dogs some off leash freedom to just be dogs for a bit, that is my only option. Bonus is that it is walking distance from my house, so I don't need to drive to get there.
> 
> ...


I was just at a dog park a day or two after I posted that I would not take dogs there. It was right near a forest preserve that we went walking in.

I like them too, because I like dogs... Went with the GF and her 5 yr old daughter to watch and play with / pet a few dogs to expose the child to some nutty friendly if mostly untrained dogs.

here is the thing, I dont use them for my personal dogs, and dont recommend that most people use them, but then again many of the dogs I own and deal with in training are not the kinds of dogs that one should bring to a dog park anyhow...

I will admit that my Vet's office waiting room is a tad bit crazier than most dogs parks I have been to...

I dont mind either (dog parks or waiting room at vets), they are always entertaining..

At the dog park I watched a guy have to drag 2 Irish wolfhounds all the way across the damn park, after chasing them cuase they didnt want to leave, another guy had to carry his ancient GSD about 100 yards, either because it couldnt or didnt want to walk that far. and 1 good fight erupted in the little dog side...a couple kids got knocked down pretty good by some kind of bigger mongrel. and right after I was talking to a guy that had what looked to be a Dutchie Cross of some kind that he just adopted from the shelter, I watched as he left the fence and was walking to his car and his dog got jumped by a huge english bulldog that some idiot was letting drag around a 5-6-7 yr old kid in the parking lot, like a water skier that forgot to let go of the leash..who wasnt paying attention to the fact that the dog was keyed up and making his move, kid or no kid wrapped up in the giant chain link leash.

I have probably gotten a 100 or so dog training clients from visiting dog parks over the years and passing out cards, and never even brought a dog in there, which is kinda funny actually, no demo dog..usually I offer to work with a few dogs there that obviously need the help, and get a couple people to let me.. a couple times I set up a table and offered mini CGC class and on the spot evaluations... I dont hustle training anymore really, just go to watch the show usually.

I think dog parks are good for communities in gen


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> I took my dogs to the dog park this morning.
> 
> Hate them all you want, but if I want somewhere safe, fenced and LEGAL, to allow my dogs some off leash freedom to just be dogs for a bit, that is my only option. Bonus is that it is walking distance from my house, so I don't need to drive to get there.
> 
> ...


I was just at a dog park a day or two after I posted that I would not take dogs there. It was right near a forest preserve that we went walking in.

I like them too, because I like dogs... Went with the GF and her 5 yr old daughter to watch and play with / pet a few dogs to expose the child to some nutty friendly if mostly untrained dogs.

here is the thing, I dont use them for my personal dogs, and dont recommend that most people use them, but then again many of the dogs I own and deal with in training are not the kinds of dogs that one should bring to a dog park anyhow...

I will admit that my Vet's office waiting room is a tad bit crazier than most dogs parks I have been to...

I dont mind either (dog parks or waiting room at vets), they are always entertaining..

At the dog park I watched a guy have to drag 2 Irish wolfhounds all the way across the damn park, after chasing them cuase they didnt want to leave, another guy had to carry his ancient GSD about 100 yards, either because it couldnt or didnt want to walk that far. and 1 good fight erupted in the little dog side...a couple kids got knocked down pretty good by some kind of bigger mongrel. and right after I was talking to a guy that had what looked to be a Dutchie Cross of some kind that he just adopted from the shelter, I watched as he left the fence and was walking to his car and his dog got jumped by a huge english bulldog that some idiot was letting drag around a 5-6-7 yr old kid in the parking lot, like a water skier that forgot to let go of the leash..who wasnt paying attention to the fact that the dog was keyed up and making his move, kid or no kid wrapped up in the giant chain link leash.

I have probably gotten a 100 or so dog training clients from visiting dog parks over the years and passing out cards, and never even brought a dog in there, which is kinda funny actually, no demo dog..usually I offer to work with a few dogs there that obviously need the help, and get a couple people to let me.. a couple times I set up a table and offered mini CGC class and on the spot evaluations... I dont hustle training anymore really, just go to watch the show usually.

I think dog parks are good for communities in general, but sometimes do not like to think about how much the government must have spent on ridiculous things or high maintenance layouts that cost too much, only to impress the people there..much of it is very unnecessary spending in my opinion...


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Brian McQuain said:


> Ive seen far too many dogs blow off the ecollar at the highest levels to do what they want. Ecollars are a great tool, but can't physically restrain a determined dog. Long lines are what I start with, then ecollar to proof, then nothing.


First off I doubt her dog is that hard. Second that sounds more like an issue with a training system then with the tool. I stand by my belief that nothing surpasses the E Collar for off leash work/control.

Havent been in a while but I was using the dog park for real world training last fall. Heeling and recalls through all the crazyness.
I have also taken pet clients there and dog aggressive dogs, its a great tool. I personally dont care how many stupid people are there, they also provide a great training opportunity. The world is full of stupid people the dogs and I will have to deal with them at some point.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jessica Hodges said:


> I agree that dog parks aren't the best environment; especially for working dogs. But, what is an alternative for leash free runs?


Why especially not for working dogs?


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> I was just at a dog park a day or two after I posted that I would not take dogs there. It was right near a forest preserve that we went walking in.
> 
> I like them too, because I like dogs... Went with the GF and her 5 yr old daughter to watch and play with / pet a few dogs to expose the child to some nutty friendly if mostly untrained dogs.
> 
> ...


some of the stuff one can see in the vets waiting room can get quite colorful to say the least ... LOL


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jessica Hodges said:


> I agree that dog parks aren't the best environment; especially for working dogs. But, what is an alternative for leash free runs?







Jessica Hodges said:


> I agree that dog parks aren't the best environment; especially for working dogs. But, what is an alternative for leash free runs?


Why especially not for working dogs? A "working dog" isn't a breed. It is a dog like any other canine If I had a non working dog I wouldn't take it to a dog park either.

As to where you can take your dog out to let it free - forests (if it doesn't critter). Football fields, other fields, etc. etc. etc. Get up early morning and go out. 

BTW dogs, even "working dogs" don't have to have copious free running. Track with them or quarter, at the beginning a field 30m x 30 m in which are placed 3 articles without the dog seeing them.

Systematic search until the dog finds an article, Either teach it to rerieve (not my fashion) or indicate by lying down. Repeat until all 3 articles have been found.

With young dogs I take them to the forest and climb over small obstacles and watch if they follow - I higher the obstacles to match their ages.

I abhor dog parks.

If you haven't got a garden you can still exercise the dog in the flat, house, Apartment by letting it search for items. Top this up with a brisk march on the lead and the dog is mentally and physically exercised.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Why especially not for working dogs?


gillian, I cannot think of many working venues for working type dogs that require them to allow a bunch of other dogs to harass them, period.

almost all my dogs have been trained and under control in most all situations, offleash harassment from other dogs, not so much.

I would hate to see any opinions that working dogs should be required to be able to function properly in a dog park, as I think selecting dogs that would do so, would not be very good for selecting "working dogs"


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

leslie cassian said:


> I took my dogs to the dog park this morning.
> 
> Hate them all you want, but if I want somewhere safe, fenced and LEGAL, to allow my dogs some off leash freedom to just be dogs for a bit, that is my only option. Bonus is that it is walking distance from my house, so I don't need to drive to get there.
> 
> ...


Leslie Im not sure anyone said they didnt like dog parks ... just that its not the best place for some of these knuckle head dogs we have. Thats my view anyway. Hey I love all dogs ... I personally like to see folks take their pet dogs out and have fun with them. Im glad you guys have that resource there especially being as its so close.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> gillian, I cannot think of many working venues for working type dogs that require them to allow a bunch of other dogs to harass them, period.
> 
> almost all my dogs have been trained and under control in most all situations, offleash harassment from other dogs, not so much.
> 
> I would hate to see any opinions that working dogs should be required to be able to function properly in a dog park, as I think selecting dogs that would do so, would not be very good for selecting "working dogs"


 I'm of your mind, too.

I was just quoting a sentence from Jessica Hodges who said:

Originally Posted by *Jessica Hodges*  
_I agree that dog parks aren't the best environment; especially for working dogs. But, what is an alternative for leash free runs?_


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## Noel Long (Mar 13, 2013)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*

I quickly scanned each post, since a lot were repetitive about no dog parks. Anyone mention predatory drift? Normal play, which is based on the prey sequence anyway, drifts to actual prey and the dog now means harm. Obviously, small dogs are most susceptible though larger dogs who scream, are infirm, or act vvvvery submissive can become targets.


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## Samantha Martinez (May 23, 2014)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*



Noel Long said:


> I quickly scanned each post, since a lot were repetitive about no dog parks. Anyone mention predatory drift? Normal play, which is based on the prey sequence anyway, drifts to actual prey and the dog now means harm. Obviously, small dogs are most susceptible though larger dogs who scream, are infirm, or act vvvvery submissive can become targets.


Thata how she is, she always picks on the little dogs, puppies, and the very submissive


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*



Samantha Martinez said:


> Thata how she is, she always picks on the little dogs, puppies, and the very submissive


That is called a "punk" or a "bully" in my book, I have owned them, both in the tough and not so tough category..

not a dog for a dog park.

"preditory drift" is also not good at a dog park.


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## Samantha Martinez (May 23, 2014)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*



Joby Becker said:


> That is called a "punk" or a "bully" in my book, I have owned them, both in the tough and not so tough category..
> 
> not a dog for a dog park.
> 
> "preditory drift" is also not good at a dog park.


What would cause this behavior in her? She was socialized with all sized dogs when she was a pup, and gets along with some small dogs. She lives with 3 Chihuahuas and an Italian greyhound and gets along fine with them, but constantly barks and terrorizes the greyhound


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*



Samantha Martinez said:


> What would cause this behavior in her? She was socialized with all sized dogs when she was a pup, and gets along with some small dogs. She lives with 3 Chihuahuas and an Italian greyhound and gets along fine with them, but constantly barks and terrorizes the greyhound


Why do you allow her to terrorize the greyhound?

As much as I think dog parks are a good thing for many dogs, there are also dogs that are just not suited for them. My Malinois is a prime example - raised as a pet, well socialized, but way too much dog for the dog park by the time he hit seven months. I had to find other things for him to do - like schutzhund training. 

Your dog is just not a dog park dog. Find another way to have fun with her.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*



Samantha Martinez said:


> What would cause this behavior in her? She was socialized with all sized dogs when she was a pup, and gets along with some small dogs. She lives with 3 Chihuahuas and an Italian greyhound and gets along fine with them, but constantly barks and terrorizes the greyhound


 If ya don't like being around loud obnoxious people will you being forced to be around them and "socialize" with them make you want to have their company more? The whole socializing thing is crock in many ways IMO.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*



Samantha Martinez said:


> What would cause this behavior in her? She was socialized with all sized dogs when she was a pup, and gets along with some small dogs. She lives with 3 Chihuahuas and an Italian greyhound and gets along fine with them, but constantly barks and terrorizes the greyhound


Maturity can be the cause of some changes in dogs.
Other than that,,,, Id be guessing...

but why let her terrorize the greyhound?


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

My Dutchie lived quite peacefully with my cat (now gone), but would try and kill any other cat she saw. I had to call AC to collect the last cat that wasn't fast enough over the fence out of my yard. I like cats - that experience sucked. 

Do you want to find out the hard way that your dog is not safe around small dogs other than your own?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Leslie said
"My Dutchie lived quite peacefully with my cat (now gone), but would try and kill any other cat she saw.



Not at all uncommon.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Bob Scott said:


> Leslie said
> "My Dutchie lived quite peacefully with my cat (now gone), but would try and kill any other cat she saw.
> 
> 
> ...


my dog lives with our 17 year old, has-a-bum-hind-leg, looks-like-a-fuzzy-pumpkin-with-a-head cat and is generally very gentle with him. she steps on him sometimes, and she begrudges individual attention he receives and tries to shove herself in the path of it instead, and she crowds him when he gets scraps because she has finished hers well before he does but they do hang out together and the cat grooms her and she nibbles his itchy spots that he has a hard time reaching on account of his bad hind leg. other cats are off-limits out of respect for our own cat and she will make a move to pursue until i give her the "no kitties" and then she whines and frets by stamping her feet--identical to what my own daughter does when thwarted, actually--and then she moves on.
other critters? well, no, she is beserk for squirrels and groundhogs and chipmunks and she's got some successful kills to her credit, but she abides by the "no kitties" rule remarkably well.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> My Dutchie lived quite peacefully with my cat (now gone), but would try and kill any other cat she saw. I had to call AC to collect the last cat that wasn't fast enough over the fence out of my yard. I like cats - that experience sucked.
> 
> Do you want to find out the hard way that your dog is not safe around small dogs other than your own?


My Briard, I had alread noticed when he was about 7 months, regarded cats as prey (horses, sheep, etc. I found out later).

When our elder cat had to be put to sleep (the Briard had played with him and later tolerated him) I took over a tiny 5-7 week old kitten. It took days and days of holding the kitten in my hands, the Briard next to me until I realised his neck had relaxed. I think it took about a month.
Afterwards with the younger Fila Brasileiro and another young cat, the four animals and I would walk around the garden altogether. One pocket of my jacket had dog futter, the other cat futter. It was really great experience, never to be repeated with the next dogs.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*



Noel Long said:


> I quickly scanned each post, since a lot were repetitive about no dog parks. Anyone mention predatory drift? Normal play, which is based on the prey sequence anyway, drifts to actual prey and the dog now means harm. Obviously, small dogs are most susceptible though larger dogs who scream, are infirm, or act vvvvery submissive can become targets.


You know, I've seen this term "predatory drift" discounted by many people on the Internet, but I have to say it describes the behavior I've seen in many of my own dogs and other dogs.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: Smaller dog/puppy aggression Predatory Drift*



susan tuck said:


> You know, I've seen this term "predatory drift" discounted by many people on the Internet, but I have to say it describes the behavior I've seen in many of my own dogs and other dogs.


for sure...


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I never meet anyone who named there dog Princess who didn’t have problems. Is it the name or the namer? I got my idea


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> I never meet anyone who named there dog Princess who didn’t have problems. Is it the name or the namer? I got my idea


That quote should be on a plaque.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

i totally cannot recall the source, but i once read a blurb about the name of a dog becoming its' own eventual state of being, as in "bear" is a big lug who mauls you and "baby" is a spoiled untrained animal who misbehaves. the bend of the statement was that the name became a sort of foreshadowing for the behavior of the animal.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i totally cannot recall the source, but i once read a blurb about the name of a dog becoming its' own eventual state of being, as in "bear" is a big lug who mauls you and "baby" is a spoiled untrained animal who misbehaves. the bend of the statement was that the name became a sort of foreshadowing for the behavior of the animal.




I've had two Thunders. Both fit the bill well.


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## Noel Long (Mar 13, 2013)

Chris McDonald said:


> I never meet anyone who named there dog Princess who didn’t have problems. Is it the name or the namer? I got my idea


Hahahaha! I thought it but didn't say it.:twisted: I'm sure we were all thinking it.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> I never meet anyone who named there dog Princess who didn’t have problems. Is it the name or the namer? I got my idea


 If I get a female puppy, I could name her "Princess" or "Cruella de Vil." I think I will go with Cruella better than Princess.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> I've had two Thunders. Both fit the bill well.


had a dog named "Whisky" what does that say bout me then? :lol:


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Alice Bezemer said:


> had a dog named "Whisky" what does that say bout me then? :lol:


That you're Scott!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Tiago Fontes said:


> That you're Scott!




:-k Alice, what are you hiding from me? I thought I was Scott. :wink:


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> :-k Alice, what are you hiding from me? I thought I was Scott. :wink:


And for being Scott you get a free pass with me every day of the week lad  it be yer savin grace :lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> had a dog named "Whisky" what does that say bout me then? :lol:


My male is named WHISKEY. I know what that says about me. I almost named him COCO LOCO.


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