# Doing what it was bred to do.



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Maybe not politically correct, but this is what terrier heart/gameness/fightdrive is all about.
the BT just ran around having fun till the bull put the matador on the ground. 
Those here who are intelligent enough to speak two languages, "What the he(( are they saying"?   :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5lnUwkkWrk


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I always root for the bull in bull fighting even though that video was more like bull baiting. In my opinion that's animal cruelty. People that participate in bull fighting simply aren't very bright. Now, bull riding takes mucho cajones!! which that dog DEFINITELY has,
AL


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Now that's a personal protection dog I'd like to have. It's nice to see throwbacks to the old days, dogs with both the courage and ability to stop man or beast.


Andy.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ditto on the bull fighting and bull baiting. There was just a side of me that really apprieciates what heart a dog can have when I saw that video. 
What I really find enjoyable are the videos that show the Matador getting the bull's horn ran up his.......errr...back pocket.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Had to bump this..now thats a GAME DOG!


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## dewon fields (Apr 5, 2009)

Haz Othman said:


> Had to bump this..now thats a GAME DOG!


Haz, Not a game dog. A lot of heart yes, but gameness no. You see the dog was running around in the beginning like a cur. Nice dog though. My bull got loose last month on neighbors heavily wooded property. After 2 hours of chasing the summabitch, I had to enlist my malinois TJ. We found the bull down creek, i released the beast and he hit the bull square in the nose, and got tossed 10 ft in the air. He hit the ground hard, and went in for round2. 5seconds and tossed again. Bull decided to run back home, with TJ on his heels. Got bull home, patched fence up, and gave TJ a steak sandwich(bologne). 

He is game...no, doing what he bred to do....no. Doing what his master says..yes.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Al Curbow said:


> People that participate in bull fighting simply aren't very bright.



What makes you state this?

I can accept you being against it...but determining the participant's intelligence level seems to be a bit too much. 

Would you like to question my intelectual capacity? Especially, since I enjoy and attend bullfights in my country, because it is legal. I also have very good friends who are bull fighting bull breeders... 

Just curious...


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

i don't understand the knock against the Bull Terrier's gameness, because i always thought gameness was the willingness to engage in a fight and keep fighting, in spite of injury, exhaustion, reason, self-preservation, etc. i thought the dog did an outstanding job of taking his knocks and coming back for more, and whomever he belongs to ought to be pretty frickin' proud of him.
this video aside, i only like bull fights when the Matador gets himself skewered, because that's what he deserves. this blunt animal is bled with little spears and then bled some more with those short decorated spears they bury in his shoulders so he can no longer raise his head and he's hurting and he's angry and tired and here's this arrogant postulating jerk who twirls him around until the sword is sunk in. sometimes they kill the bull with a proper thrust lined up to get to the heart, but they also screw it up a lot and so it takes a couple swords and stabs. also, there is the goring of horses going on from time to time before the matador gets his turn in the ring. it's a STUPID past time. there's no way it's got the dignity or street brawler balls of bull riding, either, so while Tiago Fontes may like to attend, what he is watching is a cowardly spectacle. as for his friends who breed these bulls, if they're any good they probably make pretty decent money, but i doubt it comes anywhere near what the stock handlers/purveyors working with the PBR are bringing in. oh, and those bulls live nice long plush lives...no blood-letting or skewering allowed. i wouldn't hazard a guess on the intelligence of those who support or engage in bull fighting because even smart people do really stupid things sometimes.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i don't understand the knock against the Bull Terrier's gameness, because i always thought gameness was the willingness to engage in a fight and keep fighting, in spite of injury, exhaustion, reason, self-preservation, etc. i thought the dog did an outstanding job of taking his knocks and coming back for more, and whomever he belongs to ought to be pretty frickin' proud of him.
> this video aside, i only like bull fights when the Matador gets himself skewered, because that's what he deserves. this blunt animal is bled with little spears and then bled some more with those short decorated spears they bury in his shoulders so he can no longer raise his head and he's hurting and he's angry and tired and here's this arrogant postulating jerk who twirls him around until the sword is sunk in. sometimes they kill the bull with a proper thrust lined up to get to the heart, but they also screw it up a lot and so it takes a couple swords and stabs. also, there is the goring of horses going on from time to time before the matador gets his turn in the ring. it's a STUPID past time. there's no way it's got the dignity or street brawler balls of bull riding, either, so while Tiago Fontes may like to attend, what he is watching is a cowardly spectacle. as for his friends who breed these bulls, if they're any good they probably make pretty decent money, but i doubt it comes anywhere near what the stock handlers/purveyors working with the PBR are bringing in. oh, and those bulls live nice long plush lives...no blood-letting or skewering allowed. i wouldn't hazard a guess on the intelligence of those who support or engage in bull fighting because even smart people do really stupid things sometimes.


Ok, Catherine.  

Meanwhile, look at some of my "coward" friends catching a bull... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOST7XoHr8M


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Ok, Catherine.
> 
> Meanwhile, look at some of my "coward" friends catching a bull...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOST7XoHr8M


yep, those guys should be sterilized so they don't further degrade the gene pool. 
how long did they work the bull before the matador needed some foils for his cape work?
would your good pals have fared so well against a fresh bull?
really.truly.not impressed.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

This is not a bull baiting or fight. From what I can make out from the presenter, this is an old traditional thing where guys screw with the bull to show courage. The dog is a stray that happened to show up.

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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> This is not a bull baiting or fight. From what I can make out from the presenter, this is an old traditional thing where guys screw with the bull to show courage. The dog is a stray that happened to show up.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This is what I thought, too. And I know that it's similar to what Bob thought, too, except that he thought it was the guy's dog, and that it was a "dog defending owner" thing.

If we were wrong, I apologize.



I know everyone will help us keep inviolate just about the first rule ever put into place here, seven years ago (and there are very few rules here) .... no pen- or pit-fighting.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

+1! What's so brave about repeatedly stabbing an animal before you tease it and see if you can get out of the way? This is brave! - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...eraman-faces-black-rhino-video_n_3983913.html


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Nothing like posting on a thread from 7 YEARS AGO.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

The video was cool enough it was worth reposting.

I thought a game dog was a dog that liked to fight, gets in the fight and stay in the fight. The dog shows no fear and plenty of willingness to engage. When the bull gores him off the bite he either came back in to engage or dodges. I dont see his running around as an expression of fear merely a strategy to tire the bull before he re engages.

Either way awesome dog that seems to be the real deal. Also, Iv seen a lot of strays but never a pure bred BT.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> This is not a bull baiting or fight. From what I can make out from the presenter, this is an old traditional thing where guys screw with the bull to show courage. The dog is a stray that happened to show up.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



That was my original thought when I posted it. It's more like an open street or town square then anything like a gage or pit. the dog was doing nothing more then running around being a PIA till the man went down. 
I've hunted many critters with my earth dogs. Putting them in a pen or cage with another animal is something altogether different. I retired a couple of dogs before I finally got one that bayed the quarry iin the ground. I say no point in my dogs or the quarry getting trashed. NONE of my hunting partners were into seeing something get tore up. When the farmers wanted them gone we dug to the dogs and shot the critter.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Catherine Gervin said:


> yep, those guys should be sterilized so they don't further degrade the gene pool.
> how long did they work the bull before the matador needed some foils for his cape work?
> would your good pals have fared so well against a fresh bull?
> really.truly.not impressed.



Catherine, 

I had one "good pal" in coma for two weeks from a bull. You speak and give opinions on something completely unknown to your existence. 

I accept that is not something you enjoy... but to say "those guys should be sterilized so they dont further degrade the gene pool" is a bit silly. 

On the other hand, those guys have guts, skill and enjoy what they do. I've been by their side bull catching and really enjoyed myself (the day after is hard, though). 

Nonetheless, I am not here to change your opinion/perception. You offered the reaction/response of someone who is emotional about something you know nothing about. It was expected... nothing surprising.

To my last paragraph, you will most likely come back with something within the lines/meaning of: 

"most sound individuals wouldnt do it...it is cruel to stab an animal...there is no courage involved... there is nothing to be emotional about cruelty against animals... is the animal not suffering? ..." thats how you're conditioned, it is how you view it... it is your perception.

Just keep something in mind, not everything is what it seems... There's a lot to learn about in life.


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

There's nothing I can learn in life from stabbing an exhausted, drugged and terrified cow. This has been banned in all civilized countries;

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Mark Horne said:


> There's nothing I can learn in life from stabbing an exhausted, drugged and terrified cow. This has been banned in all civilized countries;
> 
> The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;


Drugging? Where do they do that?

Bullfighting is horrible enough in reality so there is no need to make things up. 

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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't like the actual bull fighting or bull baiting either but I still wont force my beliefs and traditions on a culture I know nothing about. 
We were all raised with different values and I look at it as pure arrogance to tell some one from a different culture that they are wrong as long as it doesn't hurt me or my family and friends.
Personally I think if we were all alike the world would be pretty damn boring. 
"When in Rome"........


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Bob Scott said:


> I don't like the actual bull fighting or bull baiting either but I still wont force my beliefs and traditions on a culture I know nothing about.
> We were all raised with different values and I look at it as pure arrogance to tell some one from a different culture that they are wrong as long as it doesn't hurt me or my family and friends.
> Personally I think if we were all alike the world would be pretty damn boring.
> "When in Rome"........



Wise words.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Mark Horne said:


> There's nothing I can learn in life from stabbing an exhausted, drugged and terrified cow. This has been banned in all civilized countries;
> 
> The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;



No bulls are drugged, thats another silly comment... Drugging a bull would only numb its aggression and nobility, which would turn the "faena" into a very weak session. Bullfighters need hard, aggressive bulls that have style and keep pushing until the end. 

No cows are fought at events (although tested thoroughly for aggression and willingness to go, females are only used as breeding stock). Your words originate in an emotional reaction...That type of speech would lose credibility if there wasnt an emotional side to it...

Instead if you said, these are specifically selected and bred bulls for the purpose of fighting. 
In this type of selection, the bulls spend the first four years of their lives in a pasture, eating the best grass and food with regular veterinary care. At age 4 are then evaluated and taken to the arena. 

Such approach would be far more objective and straight to the point. Nonetheless it is a blood sport and sometimes people dont like it. Thats reality. I happen to love it and have strong family tradition behind it. 

The difference between this type of cattle and beef cattle is that instead of going to a slaughterhouse...they end their lives doing what they were bred to do...FIGHT.

ONLY gamebred bulls are fought in the arena...these are 500/600 year old bloodlines selected only for the purpose of bullfighting. Each bloodline possesses certain characteristics in the fight...Similar to what we expect from our dogs "higher prey, more defense, etc"...this happens in bullfighting bull bloodlines, except the traits are not prey drive, etc. Fight drive, hardness, willingness to take the fight to the man and heart to stay there...are present in bullfighting bulls. 

As for the civilized world allegations, Portugal, Spain, southern France are not civilized countries? 

You know Mark, if we were to discuss the "civilized" concept I could bring several very uncivilized things happening in your country...but these things pertain to humans, not some gamebred animal being used in what it was created to do. 

I choose to leave it at that, for I REALLY learned to respect other countries, even if I disagreed with some of their traditions. That, in my humble opinion, is the ultimate definition of "civilized". 


Best regards


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Mark Horne said:


> The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;



I disagree. 

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its citizens are treated - Tiago Fontes


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Mark Horne said:


> There's nothing I can learn in life from stabbing an exhausted, drugged and terrified cow. This has been banned in all civilized countries;
> 
> The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;


 
Mark, are you aware the British tax payer partly funds this bull shit ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lfighting-via-EU-subsidies.html#disqus_thread

Some interesting reading and facts...

http://www.bullfightingfreeeurope.org/


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Tiago Fontes said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its citizens are treated - Tiago Fontes


i don't believe you have the credibility to alter a quotation attributed to Ghandi.
and also, animals and children, being innocent and mostly defenseless, are totally at the mercy of everyone else and that is why their treatment gives you a pretty good litmus test for peripheral humanity. 
now it is true, no, i don't know a whole lot about bull fighting other than what Hemingway wrote about it and what we learned in 4-H almost 20 years ago, but it was abominable then and it is still. i HATE it when shady/horriffic/immoral things are done under the protective wing of "culture". like whaling for the Japanese and genital mutilation in numerous places in Africa. part of the culture in Afghanistan brought men so afraid of little girls being educated to burn them in their school.
this is not to imply that the government of the United States of America doesn't do whatever it can get away with, lots of which is pretty evil,too. no. this is to stick to the hope that standards can somehow be dragged kicking and screaming out of the dark ages.
do i know anything first hand about bull fighting? nope, because i would never contribute a solitary cent to such an enterprise. i do love some PBR--the rodeo faction and the beer, equally!


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i don't believe you have the credibility to alter a quotation attributed to Ghandi.
> and also, animals and children, being innocent and mostly defenseless, are totally at the mercy of everyone else and that is why their treatment gives you a pretty good litmus test for peripheral humanity.
> now it is true, no, i don't know a whole lot about bull fighting other than what Hemingway wrote about it and what we learned in 4-H almost 20 years ago, but it was abominable then and it is still. i HATE it when shady/horriffic/immoral things are done under the protective wing of "culture". like whaling for the Japanese and genital mutilation in numerous places in Africa. part of the culture in Afghanistan brought men so afraid of little girls being educated to burn them in their school.
> this is not to imply that the government of the United States of America doesn't do whatever it can get away with, lots of which is pretty evil,too. no. this is to stick to the hope that standards can somehow be dragged kicking and screaming out of the dark ages.
> do i know anything first hand about bull fighting? nope, because i would never contribute a solitary cent to such an enterprise. i do love some PBR--the rodeo faction and the beer, equally!


What's it say about American culture when bull fighting and whaling are compared to genital mutilation and burning to death of humans.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> +1! What's so brave about repeatedly stabbing an animal before you tease it and see if you can get out of the way? This is brave! - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...eraman-faces-black-rhino-video_n_3983913.html


How old is that video? I thought Black Rhinos are now extinct?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its citizens are treated - Tiago Fontes


There is no comparison between the way a nation treats its animals and the way it treats it citizens. The way it treats its citizens is far more important.

Thank you Tiago for your post on the the bullfighting. I didn't grow up in this culture but can understand it now.

When I think of the badgers that are prey for dogs in GB and hundreds stand around watching the badger being torn to pieces by the dogs - I could subscribe easily to bull fighting.

At the dog club we had a number of stray cats around. The building of a road neaby made it necessary to have some workers living in barracks nearby, who fed the cats.

I was about to take one of the cats to my vet to see if he could find an owner for it. We already had a tom cat who wouldn't take kindly to a newcomer.
When I came to collect it - it was gone - killed by one of our "oh! so correct dog handlers".

Today many cast the first stone without thinking of their own mistakes or of the mistakes of society in general which they and their families past and present bear.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i don't believe you have the credibility to alter a quotation attributed to Ghandi.


I will "whatever" the rest of your post simply because I do not care about your feelings on bullfighting, nor do I really care about changing your views. I only commented when you said my "pals" should be "sterilized", because, truth be told, that is way too silly. 

As far as my credibility... Let me tell you something:

I never accept things just because they were said by X,Y,Z person. I could care less if Ghandi, Mandela, Mother Teresa, came up with the sentence.

I find the quote ridiculous. That is my personal opinion, whether I have credibility before you or not. 

Can you live with the fact that I find Ghandi's quote ridiculous? I mean, am I allowed to find it ridiculous? In a free world, I should be able to say it's ridiculous...whether my statement is ridiculous itself or NOT. 


Kindest regards,

Tiago


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

jamie lind said:


> What's it say about American culture when bull fighting and whaling are compared to genital mutilation and burning to death of humans.


To me it is just the confirmation of the saying:

Opinions are like assholes and everyone's got one... Then I add:

Use it as wisely as possible! 


Regards


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

maggie fraser said:


> Some interesting reading and facts...http://www.bullfightingfreeeurope.org/



That website is just like PETA and pet ownership... in one word BIASED. 

It is a website owned by an organization wanting to end bullfighting... 

What happens when one day you find a website that shows terriers at work, loaded with words against it? What happens when you cannot ride a horse, because the horses get injured from "carrying a human on its back"? 

What happens when you no longer can work your dogs, because dogs are "our companions and not weapons"? 

Anything can be twisted to suit an agenda. Remember that and teach yourself to become rational and judge situations from a standpoint of reason, not mass thinking or emotions. 

Only my opinion


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> That website is just like PETA and pet ownership... in one word BIASED.
> 
> It is a website owned by an organization wanting to end bullfighting...
> 
> ...


You're right, it wasn't a great choice of web site, bit of a speedy knee jerk reaction when I discovered british taxpayers were helping to subsidise such a barbaric practice... Here's another countering some of the flawed arguments of the pro bullfighting... it helps to give people some background. It's in Spanish and English... 

http://www.stopourshame.com/en/argumentos.htm

I actually find a great deal of the argument very rational, and just like you, I am also entitled to an opinion.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Yes, you're entitled to your opinion.


Why thank you kind sir.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

maggie fraser said:


> Why thank you kind sir.



It's the wrong one, though ;-) lol


(Kidding).


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> It's the wrong one, though ;-) lol
> 
> 
> (Kidding).


Of course it is, thank you, thank you


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Put darkness behind your back and become enlightened...


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Put darkness behind your back and become enlightened...


 
A little something ^^^ resonating here.  Taken from http://www.stopourshame.com/en/argumentos.htm I kind of found this bit interesting.

The pro bull fighting people say: 

_“The bull is not killed in the ring to satisfy an unhealthy appetite; on the contrary, it reveals qualities and essential characteristic such as dedication, bravery, intelligence, creativity and solidarity and the event allows thousands of “aficionados” to commune together in the simple belief that Man triumphs over Chaos and in so doing elevates his condition. The experience, which has a strong metaphysical connotation, can at times give the participants a taste of eternity._

The citizens of the EU and members of the SOS Platform argue:

This idea, peppered with a medieval interpretation of metaphysics and religious fervour, is a negation of that which they hope to achieve: the elevation of the human condition. To start with, this line of thinking negates the scientific basics of evolution and perhaps situates their theorists alongside the creationists. 

We do not deny the differences between us and other mammals. We understand that our capacity to reason, to judge, to think, to control ourselves, to invent systems of government and laws and to establish customs. All these abilities make us different. We hold that this difference, which makes us instrumental in human destiny, makes us responsible for our lives, our decisions and our environment. We are now experiencing global warming and the climate change which are precisely consequences of -………………………. We are creatures of habit as well as political creatures; we establish a way of life and a way of going about things. These ways are only ever modified as a result of the historic revolutions.

Thanks to the tireless work of people who glimpsed in themselves the capacity to handle political power and who convinced their society of this capacity, the absolute monarchies were overturned. Later, citizens won economic, social and political rights. Again this was achieved thanks to the tireless work of a few visionaries who convinced and educated their society; reasoning and rationality convinced people that these were universal rights and not only pertaining to the privileged class. This movement, this revolution, known as the Enlightenment, has left us with the knowledge that we are rational creatures and morally responsible for our actions.
The duality of Nature/Culture (Nurture) (which the bull fighting supporters say is reflected in the ring, as the struggle between Order and Chaos) is ethically comprehensible if you look at things from the anthropological and ethnocentric point of view which separates Man from Nature. But if you see Man as part of the Natural World then the duality is not ethically comprehensible. bull fighting people, who tend to be anthropocentric, see the fight as Rational Man fighting to re-establish Order; the fight represents a mystic, purifying experience where Man prevails over the Brutality of Nature and he becomes the Creator; the subject transforms the object; the res cogitans moulds the res extensa.

For us, the members of the SOS Platform, the human species is not perceived from the metaphysical point of view. We see animals, humans and nature as interrelated parts of life. The bull fight is irrational where Man refuses to accept himself as part of Nature and subjects the bull arbitrarily to a cruel ritual ending in his death; Man refuses to admit that the bull feels like he does, has interests as he does, and who has the right not to suffer unnecessarily.
The members of the SOS Platform feel closer to a scientific standpoint; we accept that we are a part of the Natural World, that we are interrelated; we also feel a great responsibility for its upkeep. 
We accept that we belong to nature and we feel connected to the rest of living creatures which inhabit the planet.

From this standpoint we face a new ethical dimension which requires us to answer some questions: questions about the value of other living creatures, questions about our own value within the chaos and the order in the Natural World, questions about where Man stands now in the cosmos, Man who has ethical and scientific concerns, Man who rejects the old-fashioned version of humans as the ones chosen by God to make sense of the world and to dominate and order it. Obviously we try to order and make sense to the world (after all we are the ones who know and transform the world), but we are not in the centre of the world. We are situated there where science, ethics and society tell us we are: if science tells us we are “part of the ecosystem” then we are woven into the tapestry of the planet; if society tells us to “appreciate living in peaceful and respectful coexistence” then we recognise the richness of diversity but not only human diversity, the rich diversity of animals and nature; if ethics tells us we are “responsible for our actions” then it is because Mankind is active in changing the world and in so doing , has the power and logistic capacity to destroy everything that exists but who also has the power of ideals, ideals about life, culture and society, and must seek a life worth living for. 
*Thus we see bull fighting as a tradition which, unjustifiable from the moral, economic and cultural point of view, should have disappeared long ago due to popular revolt, but which still exists thanks to grants and subsidies and which, with our taxes we are all unwillingly and undemocratically supporting*.
For these reasons we ask you, please, to sign the Written Declaration and help us put an end to bull fighting and thus take a step forward for humanity.

I don't need to read stuff like this to know when something is _intrinsically_ wrong, maybe you should have a read Tiago. That is my opinion only, which I am entitiled to. Clear things up any?


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Alright Maggie. Bullfighting is cruel and I shall stop attending bullfights from now on. ;-) 

Am I morally a better person now? lol


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Alright Maggie. Bullfighting is cruel and I shall stop attending bullfights from now on. ;-)
> 
> Am I morally a better person now? lol


Now then, how hard was that ?


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

maggie fraser said:


> Now then, how hard was that ?


BTW, I could break that article into pieces and present another side of the story, but it would be time consuming and possibly pointless, given my audience. 

To answer your question:

It was very easy. No more bullfighting for me...the internet article made me realize my whole existence was imoral! 


Thank you ;-)


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> BTW, I could break that article into pieces and present another side of the story, but it would be time consuming and possibly pointless, given my audience.
> 
> To answer your question:
> 
> ...


You're very welcome. Friends again?


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

More than ever... Given my newly acquired moral purity!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

tiago fontes said:


> more than ever... Given my newly acquired moral purity!


\\:d/


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## Derek Milliken (Apr 19, 2009)

http://http://youtu.be/U1L-8xLI_5c

Every bit of the balls and courage, with none of the bloodshed. 

That said, I'm not a fan of bullfighting, am a fan of PBR and rodeo, and do love to see a top quality dog endure and come through the pressure of a good decoy. Lots of people would call my preferences cruel. Lots of people would call it a difference of degrees, but fundamentally the same. 
People in glass houses......


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

AR crazies dont care if its bull fighting or dog sport. Its all the same to them, so I just cant give these organizations the time of day. 

I also question the global warming claim made in that article, as that is most defintiely not a settled science.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

another interesting thread that is heating up as it gets more philosophical

anyway, my dog training sure doesn't keep the bread on the table here. and since we also teach flamenco besides classical ballet here at our place, bullfighting has been a topic thru the years. as a kid in SoCal, i watched bullfighting on our mexican TV channel 34 (Paco Camino era). quality wasn't nearly as high as in Spain and a lot of fights ended sloppy and were clumsy compared to watching the "great ones" fight bulls over in Spain

WTH ... maybe i think i'll start a thread on dog fighting  
(which you all probably know is legal in Japan)
- anyone been to one here ?
- do you think it is an animal rights issue ?

anyway, the point of my post is that i take BIG offense when anyone tries to decide what is an animal rights issue and what isn't. to me that is arrogant. 
- imo, kicking a dog in the ribs that pisses me off or bit me IS an animal rights issue, and i'll admit i have been guilty of that
- imo, a LEO making a bad move that results in his K9 getting killed is also an animal rights issue to me
- imo fighting dogs by scumbags who want to gamble and watch one bad ass pit mix rip up another bad ass pit mix is an animal rights issue
- imo breeding a dog to look like some kind of funny faced human is an animal rights issue

to me they are all examples of animal abuse, but in reality is there is NO DAMN thing as animal abuse because the animals have ZERO voice in ANY animal abuse conversation. we can't ask them ad they aren't participating and have no voice
- same goes for bull fighting ](*,)

- and imo, rationalizing either side using cultural differences is just a way to avoid the issue directly
- and since people's opinions won't change during an online discussion, why even bother trying ???

disclaimers :
- i don't support PETA
- i DO support LE and the military using dogs to hurt people
- i do care about how all animals feel even tho i don't understand exactly how that happens or how to know when the line gets crossed and we are abusing them when we shouldn't be

off the soapbox


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Tiago Fontes said:


> I will "whatever" the rest of your post simply because I do not care about your feelings on bullfighting, nor do I really care about changing your views. I only commented when you said my "pals" should be "sterilized", because, truth be told, that is way too silly.
> 
> As far as my credibility... Let me tell you something:
> 
> ...


actually you did not come up with anything to say that wasn't announcing itself before you bothered...the world is not free, bub, and the status of your statement was never something i had to question. keep your regards and your shabby blood sport entertainment and keep 'em FAAARRRRR away from me and mine, okey dokey?


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Ok Catherine, I will be sure to keep my "regards and shabby blood sport entertainment" away from you...lol

No worries.


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## Harrison Graham (Apr 12, 2011)

Tiago Fontes said:


> What makes you state this?
> 
> I can accept you being against it...but determining the participant's intelligence level seems to be a bit too much.
> 
> ...


The use of animals in entertainment, such as bullfighting, is inherently unethical and not morally justifiable.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Harrison Graham said:


> The use of animals in entertainment, such as bullfighting, is inherently unethical and not morally justifiable.


Ok.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

It's two different dogs. 

EBT's are the hardest dogs on this planet, bar none. Bumpy got amongst a herd of marsh horses once (they are nasty wild horses) and took a right kicking and stomping. I had to go in and drag her out.
Nothing wrong with her, didn't even need a vet trip.


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