# What are markers?



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

I've heard the term, and assume it's some sort in Pavlov imprinting. Are there any good online articles on this topic anywhere that I could read?

Thanks much


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

A marker is often used with a clicker (aka clicker training), where you teach the dog that a certain sound (click) or word (like "yes") is followed by a reward (food or toy). The dog associates the word as being a positive praise, and knows that following the word (or click) always comes a reward. It is quicker to say "yes" when your dogs butt touches the ground than it is to fumble around and get a treat to the dog, especially a pup that doesn't catch treats mid-air yet. So by having a quick marker such as "Yes" you can theoretically reward the dog the second he performs a desired behavior, and have an extra second or 2 to get the treat into the dogs mouth.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

What a fabulously direct and excellent answer! Thank you, Mike. So if a "yes" is so much quicker, why use a clicker? I see clickers for sale and even wrist holders for them?

Is there a sport that does not allow speaking, maybe?

E. Frawley mentions marker training as a separate sort of training entity (at least that's what I gathered). I have not found an article on this over on his site, though I believe there is one.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Clickers and verbal markers are the same thing, some people like the clicking, other people find it more convenient to use a verbal marker so you can do it anytime anywhere without worrying about having a clicker with you. I will try and find the link for you, someone posted a video on this forum a while back showing a wonderful example of how clicker training can teach a dog something without doing more than sitting on a stool and tossing treats.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

"...teach a dog something without doing more than sitting on a stool and tossing treats."

I like him already


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW5mRswhURU

Watch that video.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

What a cool demonstration. Thanks for digging that up.


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Hey Mike, thanks for the link. That IS a cool video. I have about 7 clickers all over my house, in cars, everywhere. They have helped us (my dog & I) learn a ton.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Hi Alex,

If I could ask, what is it about using a clicker rather than using your voice do you prefer?


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Hi Ted, I have found (In my limited dog experience) that I am more comfortable using a clicker. It's more consistent than using the same tone for "yes", or "good" etc. Clickers are pretty small and you can put one in your pocket, I have them on most of my keychains and one hanging from my treat bag. I just get better results. Maybe when I get more comfortable doing the silly doggie talk I can use my voice instead, but I'm pretty laid back so I don't know if that will happen. Haha.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Thanks for that explanation, Alex. I'm new to this level of training and I really appreciate everyone's perspective. Thanks again.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ted, I've been told that a clicker is faster then a verbal response, in particular for beginners.
It's basically a gimmick that works. 
There are a ton of books on clicker/marker training. My favorite is "Purely Positive" by Shelia Booth.
Here's a nice article on eye contact with marker training. http://www.leespets.com/TheEyeContactGame.html


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

That is a fabulous article!


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## Simon Mellick (Oct 31, 2006)

Aside from a clicker being a quicker and more consistant marker than verbal praise, I think it's biggest benefit is that it makes the handler more conscious of his or her timing.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Simon Mellick said:


> Aside from a clicker being a quicker and more consistant marker than verbal praise, I think it's biggest benefit is that it makes the handler more conscious of his or her timing.


 Another good point about clickers being more consistant! We humans can sometimes let emotions get into our commands. This can confuse some dogs. The clicker takes out that variable.
We use marker training at our club and the TD is always reminding us to use the marker word as unemotional as possible.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Supposedly the sounds the clicker makes is also processed differently by the brain then the sound of someone's voice. Haven't read any studies about this but a friend of mine who has read up on this a lot says the studies are out there showing this.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

"...a friend of mine who has read up on this a lot says the studies are out there showing this."

Now that is really interesting!! I would love to read up on this IF anyone has links to that sort of research.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ted White said:


> E. Frawley mentions marker training as a separate sort of training entity (at least that's what I gathered). I have not found an article on this over on his site, though I believe there is one.


http://leerburg.com/markers.htm

If you watch the LB Basic Ob video, you will see that the whole video is based on marker training. It's not a clicker-training video, but a marker is a marker... :wink: 

Marker training, as Mike and others have pointed out, is a a great timing aid.... a great communications benefit.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

I have been reading up quite a bit on the concepts and it sounds really extraordinary. I'm just on the fence with the verbal vs. clicker deal. I'm warming to the clicker.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I haven't found any downside to using both verbal marker "yes" and clicker together. Sometimes it's not practical to carry a clicker. Take my dog out on the field and say "Yes!" loudly and he goes into instant action going for the reward toss that he expects coming.

With a more sensitive dog, a verbal marker with enthusiasm can be encouraging.

For things that take really accurate timing, the clicker does better. 

I don't know why, but in studies and IME, dogs learn faster with the clicker.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Ted White said:


> Now that is really interesting!! I would love to read up on this IF anyone has links to that sort of research.


Just did a quick Google search and this is the first thing that came up.

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/72

it's by Karen Pryor, she says in the article that no formal research has been done specifically on the clicker, but it has on sharp sounds in general. I'll have to do some more searching around to see if I can find any other articles.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

That's really interesting reading Kadi. Very kind of you to look that up. Interesting theory that a sharp sound would imbed itself easier into the subconscience. Though I imagine voices would also. Like a mother's voice or a childs.

Either way, it seems no one is contending that the voice works better, and there are so many that feel that clickers are better. Since there's no downside, is there a great place to pick up a bag of clickers? I don't imagine there's much of a difference between them. 

I suppose the clicker trainers carry them attached to all sorts of areas.. Sort of like piercings


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

> I suppose the clicker trainers carry them attached to all sorts of areas.. Sort of like piercings


:lol: Rubber bands work very nicely for keeping the clicker in your palm so you can click it but still use the hand.


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Ted White said:


> is there a great place to pick up a bag of clickers? I don't imagine there's much of a difference between them.


I got them all at petsmart or petco. $.99 each. Heck, Walmart may even have them.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

That's what I needed to hear! Thanks Alex

Good idea on the rubber band Kristen. Does anyone know if they make some sort of wrist strap / clip?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ted White said:


> That's what I needed to hear! Thanks Alex
> 
> Good idea on the rubber band Kristen. Does anyone know if they make some sort of wrist strap / clip?


I've seen them with elastic wrist straps, held on with a clip similar to a coaches whistle.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Hi Bob,

That's a good idea. I'd like to have a gadget that keeps the clicker on my wrist or hand.


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