# Sexist to find female helper/decoys odd?



## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Just wondering, I havent formed an opinion...

But was looking at some pics here and the ones for their training group and saw what looked to be a 45 year old woman, that looked like an english teacher, with a sleeve on working a dog.....it made an eyebrow raise in curiosity

a few thoughts

1) Id think the most punishing dogs would be difficult for many men to work, let alone any woman (maybe...if she looked like the big butch chick from the bar scene in Inglorious Bastards....maybe)

2) since its related to combat, and while I know Im not the toughest guy there is, I am certain there is no chick in the world that could beat me in a fight, and girls dont really compare

3) since you dont have to worry about a woman breaking in your house or mugging you on the street (hey, give me your shoes!), is there really a reason to have a female decoy?....kinda like having a ten year old kid doing it


If I am wrong, enlighten me


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I decoyed for many years, until I blew out my knee. Although I might not be as strong as many men, IMO decoying isn't about just brute strength. One thing Serge Ocard pointed out to me many years ago, was although most women might not have the strength of many men, our center of gravity can also make some things easier. I think men are built better for working upper body dogs, but I actually think a woman can have an advantage with a leg dog. Actually for many years I was the primary training decoy for the FR club I belonged to, Club du Euro Canine. 

You might be surprised at how many woman do commit crimes. Granted guys are more popular, but it's not like the criminal population is 100% men. And you might be surprised how many dogs get a little wiggy the first time they work on a woman. I've seen some refuse to bite, especially during "that time".

Give me a person with the skill and natural "feel" to catch a dog safely, work them well, apply pressure or help as needed, and then after that I'll worry about their gender. IMO it's hard enough to find good decoys, to pass one over just because of gender.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Nope not my dog


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I decoyed for many years, until I blew out my knee. Although I might not be as strong as many men, IMO decoying isn't about just brute strength. One thing Serge Ocard pointed out to me many years ago, was although most women might not have the strength of many men, our center of gravity can also make some things easier. I think men are built better for working upper body dogs, but I actually think a woman can have an advantage with a leg dog. Actually for many years I was the primary training decoy for the FR club I belonged to, Club du Euro Canine.
> 
> You might be surprised at how many woman do commit crimes. Granted guys are more popular, but it's not like the criminal population is 100% men. And you might be surprised how many dogs get a little wiggy the first time they work on a woman. I've seen some refuse to bite, especially during "that time".
> 
> Give me a person with the skill and natural "feel" to catch a dog safely, work them well, apply pressure or help as needed, and then after that I'll worry about their gender. IMO it's hard enough to find good decoys, to pass one over just because of gender.




thats why indians banished them from the village during that time, evil spirits or something


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> 2) since its related to combat, and while I know Im not the toughest guy there is, I am certain there is no chick in the world that could beat me in a fight, and girls dont really compare
> 
> 3) since you dont have to worry about a woman breaking in your house or mugging you on the street (hey, give me your shoes!), is there really a reason to have a female decoy?....kinda like having a ten year old kid doing it
> 
> ...


Personally, I feel you have formed an opinion. the paragraph that starts; "since its related to combat......." pretty much sums it up for you. 

I don't pretend that I could enlighten you. I will say my experiences may be different than yours. I use female decoys when I can and yes we have a few that are willing to take on the challenge. I understand our PSD's may be no match for the dogs you are used to working. Those that you said some men could barely handle. I do feel ours (dogs) can do an adequate job. The females that want to do it, do it quite well. 

Maybe the females are different in your part of the woods, I don't know. I do know I've seen a few I'm glad I had help with. 

DFrost


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I You might be surprised at how many woman do commit crimes. Granted guys are more popular, but it's not like the criminal population is 100% men. And you might be surprised how many dogs get a little wiggy the first time they work on a woman. I've seen some refuse to bite, especially during "that time".
> 
> .


Yep. We got a prison not too far from the hospital where I work at, and it is a Max security. All the inmates that have been brought in are real brutes and most are serving life sentences.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

> And you might be surprised how many dogs get a little wiggy the first time they work on a woman. I've seen some refuse to bite...


I have worked every dog I've ever done bite work with on a female..at one time or another...

a couple ones that took bitework very seriously had issues initially...

I believe it is best to get bites in on the biggest variety of people as possible..to get them used to the variations as much as possible..

I will grant you that most were very short sends or bites on line...but only 1 of the women I have worked dogs on was over 5 ft tall...and most were under 105 lbs I'm guessing....


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Matt Grosch said:


> Just wondering, I havent formed an opinion...
> 
> But was looking at some pics here and the ones for their training group and saw what looked to be a 45 year old woman, that looked like an english teacher, with a sleeve on working a dog.....it made an eyebrow raise in curiosity
> 
> ...


Seriously? Not even worth the time........


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I voted YES
but I was assuming they'd be working the dogs with a 9mm and a steel rod while dressed in their underwear? ;-)


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I have worked every dog I've ever done bite work with on a female..at one time or another...
> 
> a couple ones that took bitework very seriously had issues initially...
> 
> ...


I want to work my dog on the biggest strongest helpers out there who can attack and catch my dog with 100 o/o full tilt!!! I want someone who can eye fuk my dog or not. I want my helpers to be able to help me train my dog to be his very best so that means my dog will have to bite and train with the devel when I need him to.
Sorry gals


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

You need all different types and styles of decoy work,some people are really good at building up pups and others can test your dog everytime.You need them all!
Yes maybe female decoys can not take the punishment some dogs dish out but i have seen a lot of male decoys being sissys.
Being bitten in the same spot on a regular basis can hurt a lot and not everyone is willing to undergo that kind of treatment!
I think you can not really comment on this unless you have been there,done it and got the t-shirt.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I want to work my dog on the biggest strongest helpers out there who can attack and catch my dog with 100 o/o full tilt!!! I want someone who can eye fuk my dog or not. I want my helpers to be able to help me train my dog to be his very best so that means my dog will have to bite and train with the devel when I need him to.
> Sorry gals


This is my first dog attempting SCH...the others were trained to bite people for real...

I know one lil gal that is excellent at getting a dog to want to KILL her...


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> This is my first dog attempting SCH...the others were trained to bite people for real...
> 
> I know one lil gal that is excellent at getting a dog to want to KILL her...


My dog wants to kill this old guy in my neighborhood with cerebral palsy


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Mike Scheiber said:


> My dog wants to kill this old guy in my neighborhood with cerebral palsy


 
Some dogs just seem to know their limits.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> My dog wants to kill this old guy in my neighborhood with cerebral palsy


Sounds like a menace


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Sounds like a menace


I'm not sure why maybe he seances he ain't rite or what? and of course the mail man. He has never gotten close to ether.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I'm not sure why maybe he seances he ain't rite or what? and of course the mail man. He has never gotten close to ether.


of course the mailman, the world's best agitator, comes by to work the dog 6 days a week..a quick threat, then he is gone..  making dogs all over the country think they are the toughest dogs on the planet...


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Some dogs just seem to know their limits.


:lol: Good one :lol: ...............:-x


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I was just yankin your chain, couldn't resist the setup :razz:.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> Just wondering, I havent formed an opinion...
> 
> But was looking at some pics here and the ones for their training group and saw what looked to be a 45 year old woman, that looked like an english teacher, with a sleeve on working a dog.....it made an eyebrow raise in curiosity
> 
> ...




If she's hot I don't care what she does .


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## Rochele Smit (Feb 3, 2010)

My opinion

I enjoy working the dogs, but I will never be as strong as the guys, and we have some dogs that are very powerful. Yes, I know how to work a dog up, put pressure on it, catch it correctly, blah blah blah, but at the end of the day, unless I become some heavy weightlifting champ, I just can't compare myself to the male decoys.

I do think it's very beneficial to have a dog bite as many different people as possible, male, female, young, old, whatever.

We've had as few girls (club members, decoy's girlfriends, etc) want to try taking a bite, in the suit, they always get their asses kicked. With sleeves... they still almost always get beat. Of course, they have no experience, but even guys with no experience can at least stand up to most bites.

So I help out when we are short decoys, or when its real hot out, but I will usually work the weaker dogs, or just one of our stronger dogs, then I'm done.

So... no, I don't have a problem with female decoys... I just don't think that most girls can successfully decoy. Not saying they can't, as I've seen some really good ladies decoying... but they are few and far between. I think if you are going to be a girl decoy, you really need to learn how to correctly catch a dog, and catch it right every time.

Example:









This was some guy's wife... sure, she's having fun, but... Shadow was in a sit, a foot away from the sleeve, on leash when he bit. It was very controlled, and she was still bruised afterwards. She could have never handled a situation where Shadow was sent on her. A girl can't just walk in and start decoying.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I think it's nice to see a woman holding her own with the dog. I would love to learn to decoy, but I've been told I"m a bit too small to take that kind of hit. It's a valid point, most of these dogs are over half my body weight, and at least a good sized GSD can stand on it's hind feet and we see "eye to eye". So I'm pretty sure a dog hitting me at full force is going to knock me flat on my ass and being that I'm short it's just going to lend to accidents if they miss a bite. So I'll leave the "chew toy" business up to the guys, but more power to women who do decoy!


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I'm not sure why maybe he seances he ain't rite or what? and of course the mail man. He has never gotten close to ether.




isnt it just the dog thinking "WTF is up with that guy?.....I dont know, but I dont like it"



*side note, I have heard more than one account of apes and monkeys becoming highly agitated when they see a handicapped/retarded person


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

"I do think it's very beneficial to have a dog bite as many different people as possible, male, female, young, old, whatever."



I kind of hit on that in my orig post, if reasonable minds could differ on the female thing, what about the kid thing? Would there really be any value as opposed to teaching a dog that it is something that NEVER happens? And kind of like the example with dogs hesitating when on a female and its new, would you almost want some of the internal conflict in place?


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> isnt it just the dog thinking "WTF is up with that guy?.....I dont know, but I dont like it"
> 
> 
> 
> *side note, I have heard more than one account of apes and monkeys becoming highly agitated when they see a handicapped/retarded person



My first PSD lit up and became very aggressive towards a young mentally retarded girl years ago . She did nothing out of the ordinary but simply approached the dog to pet him . I had never seen him react to anyone else like that . My dog scared her very bad and it wasn't one of my fondest memories of an otherwise great dog .


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

..People let kids take bites too. I have seen kids as young as 10 yrs old taking bites from certain dogs, and big pups...and quite a few women working adult dogs...

I assume you are talking real world bites, and not sportwork.
as far as real world type dogs...No one should want a dog biting kids...LOL so that should never happen.

A grown woman is not a kid...and can be very dangerous...ever watch "SNAPPED"? woman attack and kill people all the time...

Do you really think that a dog will never be asked to bite a female in real life?


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> "I do think it's very beneficial to have a dog bite as many different people as possible, male, female, young, old, whatever."
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of hit on that in my orig post, if reasonable minds could differ on the female thing, what about the kid thing? Would there really be any value as opposed to teaching a dog that it is something that NEVER happens? And kind of like the example with dogs hesitating when on a female and its new, would you almost want some of the internal conflict in place?


I also think it's a good idea for the dog to be diverse and not balk at biting a woman the same as a man...but children? No, I'd draw the line on that. Children move like a threat, especially small ones. They're loud, movement is erratic, and I can't think of a single reason a dog should ever be deployed on a "child" younger than approximately 14 or 15. By 14 or 15, they're on their own, as most teenagers are already adult sized. You should check out my sons elementary school, there are 5th graders as big as me there, no joke! 

So,especially living in a house full of rug rats myself, I would not want a dog that felt comfortable biting a child. It's an accident waiting to happen. By the time children are getting old enough to be a pain in the ass with burglaries and such, they're about adult sized (14 or 15ish) so it's rather a moot point.

My dog and my gun are my equalizer. I have no doubt I cannot fight off a man or psychotic woman inside my house if it comes down to physical strength; my husbands a small man at 5 ft 6 and he can easily physically overpower me even playing around. But a "child" sized kid isn't much of a threat to me unless they have a gun.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jim Nash said:


> If she's hot I don't care what she does .


Oh sure, get all truthful and stuff. I could have done that too ya know.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Matt Grosch said:


> I kind of hit on that in my orig post, if reasonable minds could differ on the female thing, what about the kid thing? Would there really be any value as opposed to teaching a dog that it is something that NEVER happens? And kind of like the example with dogs hesitating when on a female and its new, would you almost want some of the internal conflict in place?


There are 12 and 13 year old kids out there with guns, robbing and killing people. Are you sure a PPD or police dog will never be called upon to bite a kid? Not that I'm suggesting a 10 year old become your normal decoy, but I've known a number of people who began decoying at 12 and 13, that's one reason some of the French decoys are so freaking good.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> There are 12 and 13 year old kids out there with guns, robbing and killing people. Are you sure a PPD or police dog will never be called upon to bite a kid? Not that I'm suggesting a 10 year old become your normal decoy, but I've known a number of people who began decoying at 12 and 13, that's one reason some of the French decoys are so freaking good.



The biting rules for my dogs are


"Bite them all............let God sort them out"


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> ..People let kids take bites too. I have seen kids as young as 10 yrs old taking bites from certain dogs, and big pups...and quite a few women working adult dogs..


yes these kids are growing faster than normal due to all the hormones they ingest. For some it's hard to tell a 13 year old from a 18 year old    . I say send the dog!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I just used the 10 yr old kid as an example, he did not really state what type of "decoy".

There are many (more than a few, not none) occurences of Police K9 assisting in apprehensions of female suspects. I am sure there are many many more men, but there are women criminals too. The bite to no-bite ratio is probably much lower (guessing) becuase more females probably give up comparatively to men.

I have a friend who is a female, that did have her dog bite a female in a BAR brawl, small bar, out of town, no bouncers...she got attacked by two females and when her BF stepped in to "assist" her, the whole bar turned on both of them. As 3 guys were kicking th shit out of her BF, she made it out the the car, got the dog, brought him in, one of the women immediately picked up a chair and tried to pummel her with it, she was the first one to get bit, along with 2 men, the dog did give them time to get out of there...not saying I agree with the whole incident, but it did happen, and as far as she was concerned things coulda went very badly without the dog there...

I also had a dog that I let bite a female that was with 3 males that were attempting to break into to my house to kick my azzhole roomates ass, because he slept with some guys GF. They broke the front window and were trying to kick the door in, 2 of them had baseball bats, one was a female. I had 3 guys at my house who all HID under the beds, in the closets, whatever..LOL I was not about to let those people trash MY house or beat someone with a bat in my house...2 people got bit one female one male...I stupidly snuck out the back door with a dog onlead and went out the side gate and flanked them....right or wrong it did happen....

I googled women getting bit and did find this one:

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local...r-30-Minute-Chase/MtGWjTfQGkmotoNjja-2Dw.cspx

and this study which analyzed a suburban Police department K9 program over a six year period which states that K9's assisted in the apprehension of 104 women, with 5 bites...which was overall was much lower than the men of course, and the bite ratio was about 1/3 of what it was for the men...but this is just one suburban department over a six year period, so I assume this is not a fluke...that K9's are often called to assist with women suspects....how often I don't know, but more often than never...

http://k9.fgcu.edu/articles/hickey.pdf

I had a female perform the 360 degree civil "handler protection" scenario at a couple "shows" we did in the past...

If you are talking strictly sport, then I don't think it is a necessity, but I am not against women wanting to do bitework, especially if they are hot LOL....


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## Loren Leffew (May 11, 2009)

Sorry, had to jump in here. I think it mostly depends on the female. Some tiny little girls just couldn't take a large dog, but in general, I think they could. I'm 5'11" and more pounds then I'd like to admit, and would like to decoy (I haven't yet, I might get my butt kicked and change my mind, lol).

It depends, I suppose, like if you want a dog that will protect you no matter what and bite no matter what. I also think a female handler should make sure their dogs will bite a female, since they would be more likely to get attacked by a female. Or, what if you went to a competion and a female was the decoy. Would your dog perform sucky just because it was a female? You really wouldn't know unless you tried it out on a female decoy beforehand. Just my opinion, of course, and I am probably biased since I would like to decoy.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Timothy Stacy said:


> yes these kids are growing faster than normal due to all the hormones they ingest. For some it's hard to tell a 13 year old from a 18 year old


that kinda thinking can get you on a sex offenders list Tim...better check ID's :roll::roll:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Loren Leffew said:


> I also think a female handler should make sure their dogs will bite a female, since they would be more likely to get attacked by a female. Or, what if you went to a competion and a female was the decoy.


I do agree a dog should have experience biting a female just for the experience of it. 

The Sun Dog protection events have also used females in suits as decoys in the past...


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


> The Sun Dog protection events have also used females in suits as decoys in the past...


There have also been some women who certified as FR decoys, and Sch helpers.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> that kinda thinking can get you on a sex offenders list Tim...better check ID's :roll::roll:


I knew you'd pick up on that


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

I work my dogs on everyone. My favorite is female children :twisted:

















This is my niece Shelby when she was 10 years-old. She's 18 now and I would kill to have her close by to work dogs for me. She is an absolute natural and the pics above are from her first time working a dog.


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## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> of course the mailman, the world's best agitator, comes by to work the dog 6 days a week..a quick threat, then he is gone..  making dogs all over the country think they are the toughest dogs on the planet...


=D>=D>


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I don't have the strength to decoy. I get injured enough playing with my own dogs - what really sucks is, there's nothing to look forward to with getting older. Kudos to anyone willing and able to work dogs over and over, whether you are male or female


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Loren Leffew said:


> Sorry, had to jump in here. I think it mostly depends on the female. Some tiny little girls just couldn't take a large dog, but in general, I think they could. I'm 5'11" and more pounds then I'd like to admit, and would like to decoy (I haven't yet, I might get my butt kicked and change my mind, lol).


I'm kinda similar. 5'9" and a few more pounds than I'd like, but I've always been pretty strong. I always had strong legs, so I would try leg bites, but the bad lower back, not a good idea. :-({|=


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## Lisa Clark (Feb 14, 2008)

Probably the most talented helper I have ever had the pleasure to train with in my almost 20 years in SchH is a woman. Helper work is not about brute strength and muscles. The best training helpers have an attitude, a presance that the dogs recognize immediately. They know this person is an opponent and not just someone out there who is going to play a game with them. It isn't about hurting dogs or over powering them. These helpers don't need to do this. Good helpers also must have the ability to think and react quickly to what they see in the dog. Helper work is just as much mental as it is physical.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No matter how many times you might hear a guy or a girl say that chicks rock and all that, the bottom line is that it is their opinion, and you do not see them working competitions at any real level. I don't see anyone going to a chick to get them ready for a big trial.

You can make up your own definitions for what "good" is, but why ? They are a fluke at best and I cannot believe that I wasted good time explaining this to you.


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

The best helpers that I know of at least in the So Cal area is a 40+ year old woman. Anne Kent is one of a kind. Been in the dog game for a looong time and really knows how to work a dog. 
She is one woman that I would go to to get ready for a "big trial". 
She really gets into the dogs head and has a VERY powerful presence. Quite a few people on this board have learned a great deal from her including myself. She is an asset to anyones training program.
JMHO.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How many do you know ?


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## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm not going to argue that a woman decoy is going to be comparable to a man in physical strength. The two are just built differently, and men are going to naturally have more upper body strength in particular. But I don't think that means that women cannot be good or valuable decoys.

I've done a little decoying myself and personally think it is fun as hell, bruises and all.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

it also depends on what your goal is for a specific training session. With a trained PSD it isn't always about the decoy. If the person being used can take the hit, without significant injury, they can be quite an effective decoy. There has to come a time the dog is going to do what it's supposed to do regardless of whom it may be biting. If that isn't so, then it's just a show dog anyway.

DFrost


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I'm kinda similar. 5'9" and a few more pounds than I'd like, but I've always been pretty strong. I always had strong legs, so I would try leg bites, but the bad lower back, not a good idea. :-({|=


And you're singing the blues why? At least you don't have to find a chair to reach the top of the fridge


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> And you're singing the blues why? At least you don't have to find a chair to reach the top of the fridge


like me....:sad::sad:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Do you think she could handle your dog? I double dog dare you to call her odd to her face. And I bet she could punish any dog that was sent on her.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> Do you think she could handle your dog? I'll bet you she could run your dog in a minute.


I do not.....but she could most likely run me...


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> Do you think she could handle your dog? I'll bet you she could run your dog in a minute.


Now the photo is kind of blurry but from what I'm seeing my answer is , I don't care . She could decoy for me anyday .


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Ah Ushi Fuchs  She's a very good trainer/helper ;-)

But that said I sincerely doubt she's in to running dogs. Men maybe ;-)~


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

We have a few females in our K9 unit . 2 will decoy and helpout any chance they can . The are good cops and K9 handlers , but know there are certain situations and certain dogs that it would be best someone else does the decoy work . The 3rd is scared sh**less to work any dogs no matter how easy .

I don't care what sex just as long as you can do the job you stepped up for .


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> We have a few females in our K9 unit . 2 will decoy and helpout any chance they can . The are good cops and K9 handlers , but know there are certain situations and certain dogs that it would be best someone else does the decoy work . The 3rd is scared sh**less to work any dogs no matter how easy .
> 
> I don't care what sex just as long as you can do the job you stepped up for .


If they are in the K9 unit do they all have to take bites, regardless of the gender? I do know one school that requires all of them to suit up.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Lisa Clark said:


> Probably the most talented helper I have ever had the pleasure to train with in my almost 20 years in SchH is a woman. Helper work is not about brute strength and muscles. The best training helpers have an attitude, a presance that the dogs recognize immediately. They know this person is an opponent and not just someone out there who is going to play a game with them. It isn't about hurting dogs or over powering them. These helpers don't need to do this. Good helpers also must have the ability to think and react quickly to what they see in the dog. Helper work is just as much mental as it is physical.





Eric Shearer said:


> The best helpers that I know of at least in the So Cal area is a 40+ year old woman. Anne Kent is one of a kind. Been in the dog game for a looong time and really knows how to work a dog.
> She is one woman that I would go to to get ready for a "big trial".
> She really gets into the dogs head and has a VERY powerful presence. Quite a few people on this board have learned a great deal from her including myself. She is an asset to anyones training program.
> JMHO.


My guess is Lisa is making reference to Ann also I have never met her but like her thoughts on the German Shepherd dog and Schutzhund. She seems a bit opinionated but so are many good dog trainers. 
She MAY be the exception but she's in Cali and I'm not, she is the only Women training helper that I have EVER heard multiple Schutzhund trainers reference her exceptional training helper abilities.
So there is one women that may be a great training helper in all the US that ain't enough for me changing my opinion on women being good training helpers for Schutzhund dogs.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> We have a few females in our K9 unit . 2 will decoy and helpout any chance they can . The are good cops and K9 handlers , but know there are certain situations and certain dogs that it would be best someone else does the decoy work . The 3rd is scared sh**less to work any dogs no matter how easy .
> 
> I don't care what sex just as long as you can do the job you stepped up for .


Do I know one of the two :-k


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Ah Ushi Fuchs  She's a very good trainer/helper ;-)
> 
> But that said I sincerely doubt she's in to running dogs. Men maybe ;-)~



She has a lot of presence that's for sure.... Ya know Matt, Uschi lives in Phoenix. Give her a call.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Candy Eggert said:


> If they are in the K9 unit do they all have to take bites, regardless of the gender? I do know one school that requires all of them to suit up.



Yep it's a K9 unit . Everyone has to take bites .

But if they(male or female) suck then most of the handlers don't want them decoying for their dogs . So they get out of alot of stuff then if it's a scenerio where it doesn't require much they always happen to wander of or find some way to avoid it . 

It would be nice if they(males and females) pulled their weight when the opprotunity arises but they don't . I think it has more to do with fear then not being good at it .


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> So there is one women that may be a great training helper in all the US that ain't changing my opinion on women being good training helpers for Schutzhund dogs.


 Who knows, what the purpose of the thread was, real life PSD SPORT PP whatever...cause it hasn't been clarified..so does ANN get the thumbs up? 

all I know is if you want to get your dog pissed off enough to want to kill somebody, I know a girl that is just as good as any guy for the job...and she is under 100 lbs..


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Candy Eggert said:


> Ah Ushi Fuchs  She's a very good trainer/helper ;-)
> 
> But that said I sincerely doubt she's in to running dogs. Men maybe ;-)~



It is soooooo tough not going off on a tangent about her name .


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jim Nash said:


> It is soooooo tough not going off on a tangent about her name .


i saw that name on a website..i think...or something similar...(joking) no REAL offense meant...:???:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> It is soooooo tough not going off on a tangent about her name .


just imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice when you think of her.... no joke


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ooooh she does what?? 
I am still trying to find hot pics of my little decoy friend...


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> just imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice when you think of her.... no joke


You are such a party pooper . But at least I'm ready to move on now and stay on topic . Thanks.............


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> ooooh she does what??
> I am still trying to find hot pics of my little decoy friend...



This is Uschi's website

http://www.k9u-international.com/index.htm


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> You are such a party pooper . But at least I'm ready to move on now and stay on topic . Thanks.............



LOL!!! 

check out her website, that outta get your mind back in the gutter. 

The question is, are YOU ready to be somebody's bitch? She would oblige you in a heartbeat.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> LOL!!!
> 
> check out her website, that outta get your mind back in the gutter.
> 
> The question is, are YOU ready to be somebody's bitch? She would oblige you in a heartbeat.



Not ready for that but I can take her . I do like a challenge though .


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Who knows, what the purpose of the thread was, real life PSD SPORT PP whatever...cause it hasn't been clarified..so does ANN get the thumbs up?
> 
> all I know is if you want to get your dog pissed off enough to want to kill somebody, I know a girl that is just as good as any guy for the job...and she is under 100 lbs..


Lotso people can piss a dog off, I like the helpers that are both physical and can get in there heads, move and manipulate them with there presence, demeanor and acting even be able to run them off, but understand limits and yes all dogs have limits, and they should be visited occasionally during training.
Lots more to making a good Schutzhund dog than agitation and feeding them the sleeve.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> just imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice when you think of her.... no joke


Here is a video of Uschi working a Dobermann at a seminar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwKi9w_m8ho

I don't think she looks or sounds like Arnold Schwarzenegger?
She also does some nice decoy work.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> just imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice when you think of her.... no joke


Does that give you a chubby Chris


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Does that give you a chubby Chris


Most of the time 8-[


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> Yep it's a K9 unit . Everyone has to take bites .
> 
> But if they(male or female) suck then most of the handlers don't want them decoying for their dogs . So they get out of alot of stuff then if it's a scenerio where it doesn't require much they always happen to wander of or find some way to avoid it .
> 
> It would be nice if they(males and females) pulled their weight when the opprotunity arises but they don't . I think it has more to do with fear then not being good at it .


Jim I feel the same way about some decoys working my dog if they suck just cause they put equipment on. But I do think it's good that you all suit up and take bites so that you will know/feel what that power is all about.

The one woman handler who is scared s**tless could be an asset...to the dogs that is ;-)


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Candy Eggert said:


> Jim I feel the same way about some decoys working my dog if they suck just cause they put equipment on. But I do think it's good that you all suit up and take bites so that you will know/feel what that power is all about.
> 
> The one woman handler who is scared s**tless could be an asset...to the dogs that is ;-)


Just to be clear everyone has taken bites . It's just some way more than others and she has perfected the art of avoidance in record time .

I agree about the fear thing being an asset . I have requested her , for training purposes , as a decoy for my dog while in the bitesuit to no avail .

Nobody likes working my dog in the suit .


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

here is video of my current female decoy..I could not find video of her working dogs, just her and her dog..(same dog I worked in diggging in thread)..

If I was compatible with her personally, I would marry her,,this is no secret..she is hot and is great with dogs...
Angie Stark is a good friend of hers, and she knows that Teresa can certainly get in a dog's head and make a dog want to eat her alive...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOQDpS-5GOM


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

We used a female in a building search, second floor. She was scared shitless, and put out a lot of adrenal harmones which was excellent. Dogs responded really well! Best training session in a long time. We made sure no perfume or abnormal scent was added. New decoys are wonderful.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> like me....:sad::sad:


Do not despair! My husbands 5 ft 6, and as of yesterday, I am 5 ft 2 apparently. Just remember the benefit, I don't have to duck 90% of the time, so leaving kitchen cabinet doors open for people to whack their heads on is a great game. 

Thomas, liked the Dobe vid. I think she's the first lefty I've seen decoying too.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> Do you think she could handle your dog? I double dog dare you to call her odd to her face. And I bet she could punish any dog that was sent on her.





hmmmm....makes me wonder if (to make it a general question), a female schutzhund decoy could run a serious PSA/KNPV dog, there is likely no way in hell she would make a dog like suttle's or the van leeuwens run (no way she would make the gilbert PD, chucky, or probably chandler PD dogs run either).....given that she couldnt do it to them, Id have to wait till mine is mature and ready to compete before I could potentially include him in that group


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

and it might be a mistake, but I would think there would be a certain level of rough physical brutality involved in decoying tough dogs (the type wear you will be bruised even with gauntlets under the suit, and will shake you so much you cant keep your footing)

just like any serious wrestling, bjj, mma, boxing, kickboxing, etc training would be beyond the level of any woman to participate in


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I decoyed for many years, until I blew out my knee. Although I might not be as strong as many men, IMO decoying isn't about just brute strength. One thing Serge Ocard pointed out to me many years ago, was although most women might not have the strength of many men, our center of gravity can also make some things easier. I think men are built better for working upper body dogs, but I actually think a woman can have an advantage with a leg dog. Actually for many years I was the primary training decoy for the FR club I belonged to, Club du Euro Canine.
> 
> You might be surprised at how many woman do commit crimes. Granted guys are more popular, but it's not like the criminal population is 100% men. And you might be surprised how many dogs get a little wiggy the first time they work on a woman. I've seen some refuse to bite, especially during "that time".
> 
> Give me a person with the skill and natural "feel" to catch a dog safely, work them well, apply pressure or help as needed, and then after that I'll worry about their gender. IMO it's hard enough to find good decoys, to pass one over just because of gender.




now I think there may actually be something there, Im not super experienced with FR and have just seen a bit, but the dogs pretty much just working the legs (vs coming in like a torpedo KNPV style) would make me think that gender and weight may not be a much of a factor here

side note, Ive thought about the best way a dog could bite a potentially armed attacker, and biting the left arm sleeve style would be the worst, a flying chest bite or same entry but trying to take their legs out from under them and knock them down would seem the best


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> No matter how many times you might hear a guy or a girl say that chicks rock and all that, the bottom line is that it is their opinion, and you do not see them working competitions at any real level. I don't see anyone going to a chick to get them ready for a big trial.
> 
> You can make up your own definitions for what "good" is, but why ? They are a fluke at best and I cannot believe that I wasted good time explaining this to you.


 
Hmm I wonder why a female decoy is getting decoy of the year out here, catching police dogs in trials?  She is being pulled so many different directions she can't keep up with demand.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I would probably attribute that to "police" dog trials. Everyone wants the decoy their dog can punk. Well, not everyone. No cop is going to want to have his dog run off the field during a demo.

Again, it is one person, and that goes along with the "bulldog" theory, Odin got a two 25 years ago, so I should be able to as well.

I love it when people have absolutely nothing to back their arguements, but go ahead and try anyway. Michelle grew up being told that she could do anything that a guy can do, and better. Still struggling with that are we ?

Here. This helped me out. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98LeLZ2crZE&feature=PlayList&p=FCBF8F2E2837B311&index=0&playnext=1


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How many do you know ?


I know almost all in our region (South West). Trust me... I'm not trying to blow smoke up Anne's ass.... I am just giving props where it is due. I have trained with a lot of helpers and decoys... Don't misunderstand me. I am talking training helper not necessarily trial helper. 2 totally different animals. Yes there are some helpers that I know that are great "rabbits" and get the dogs working well... but she truly balances the dog and brings the aggression and gives the dog power where most either bore the dog to death or bring it too high in prey / material lust... 
She is by far one of the best... around here anyway. 
Like I said before JMHO...
E


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

material lust ?? I rarely see aggression in a dog that works in Sch. Thats just me though. I do know what you are talking about with the lack of skill in working a dog.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Matt Grosch said:


> hmmmm....makes me wonder if (to make it a general question), a female schutzhund decoy could run a serious PSA/KNPV dog, there is likely no way in hell she would make a dog like suttle's or the van leeuwens run (no way she would make the gilbert PD, chucky, or probably chandler PD dogs run either).....given that she couldnt do it to them, Id have to wait till mine is mature and ready to compete before I could potentially include him in that group



she does more than schH Matt. 

A dog is a dog and they all have breaking points. 

How are you training your dog to deal with serious pressure Matt? How about you come and train with us on sat am? Nobody is going to try and break your dog btw that's just shit talk and you wouldn't want to work with somebody that would try to run a dog. But if you think it can't happen, you have some learning to due. Were you at the Desert Dog trials a few months ago? How many of those police k9s looked like shit? A LOT!


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I would probably attribute that to "police" dog trials. Everyone wants the decoy their dog can punk. Well, not everyone. No cop is going to want to have his dog run off the field during a demo.
> 
> Again, it is one person, and that goes along with the "bulldog" theory, Odin got a two 25 years ago, so I should be able to as well.


Two things:

1) I wouldn't say, even in "Bulldog Theory" the fact that a rare example means I can do the same thing. I _would_ say that those rare examples should prove that it is possible to be done. Hence, if there is even one Uschi Fuchs (or, yes, Oden) that exists as an example that the unlikely can be done and it inspires others to try, honestly, what does it hurt? Sure, best-to-best, it's unlikely, but who _doesn't_ like stories like the Jamaican National Bobsled Team competing at the '88 Olympics, or the 1980 Miracle on Ice where the U.S. beat Russia, or a Bulldog from non-sport lines makes it to a II and competes for a III without really being bred specifically for it.

2) Your math sucks. :razz: At least according to http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/pedigree/578351.html it does.

I'm not seeing successful Ringsport Bulldogs or great woman agitators falling from the sky. I'm not seeing Musky out at the Lake when I go fishing, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Matt Grosch said:


> and it might be a mistake, but I would think there would be a certain level of rough physical brutality involved in decoying tough dogs (the type wear you will be bruised even with gauntlets under the suit, and will shake you so much you cant keep your footing)
> 
> *just like any serious wrestling, bjj, mma, boxing, kickboxing, etc training would be beyond the level of any woman to participate in*


Hey Matt, I think that would depend. If you are talking about the training or the skills in general, I'll disagree. There are women in lots of Martial Arts gyms training at a high level. They have been in the minority the times I've been to them, but they are still out there. Also, Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu are by their very nature about negating size & strength advantages, so to say they are beyond any woman to train a/o compete at any serious level is almost inherently false.

If you are saying that Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos would lose against Fedor, Brock, or B.J. Penn in an actual match, sure, almost indefinitely. That is not really the same though.

I'd also argue somebody like Cris "Cyborg" could effectively train with the guys and serve some role as a training/sparring partner. I've gotten taken apart in Randori with some female Judoka. I was not the best by any stretch, but I was much bigger and stronger and they just destroyed me. Same with some of the bigger and more advanced guys. You can even train with people that might lose to you in a match and still learn things from them. It's not like you are going to solely train or match against them anyway and I'd imagine confidence-building (either a dog getting an easy bite or "winning" in a light sparring session where you're just going ~1/2 to 3/4 speed/resistance to learn moves or randori without killing each other) has its role as well. It's not a direct correlation, but you can probably make some parallels.

-Cheers


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
If you are saying that Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos would lose against Fedor, Brock, or B.J. Penn in an actual match, sure, almost indefinitely. That is not really the same though.

But, yet they "claim" to be doing the same sport, or at least that is how it is promoted, or more to the point, bullshitted.

Americans will always love the underdog. There is something wrong about the extent of what level they will take that to. That is always something to be considered.

A good example of this is our use of the word "hero".

Retards are heros because they exist.
Police are heros because they have a uniform
Firemen are heros because they ride a firetruck, 
"everyday heros" is another bullshit use of the word. It cheapens the perception of the terminology, so that "everyone" can be a hero. It doesn't make you a hero though.

This is a hero. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLFMi7eSbdY Now having listened to this, does calling someone a hero that just showed up not cheapen what a hero really is ? How many can even come close to living up to this guy ? I see people get shot out of stupidity on PD's and they get called heros. Is that the way things should be ?

Just like the two women that have been mentioned, it doesn't make being against the idea females decoys wrong.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Sorry wrong link. Right guy, but ooops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=RZ7968BbMnU&feature=related

Much cooler.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> If you are saying that Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos would lose against Fedor, Brock, or B.J. Penn in an actual match, sure, almost indefinitely. That is not really the same though.
> 
> But, yet they "claim" to be doing the same sport, or at least that is how it is promoted, or more to the point, bullshitted.


Sure. But it's a matter of trying to square-off equals. That is largely why they have different weight classes. Also, in a fight men are generally going to win in part just how they tend to be built.



> Americans will always love the underdog. There is something wrong about the extent of what level they will take that to. That is always something to be considered.
> 
> A good example of this is our use of the word "hero".
> 
> ...


I don't know if there is anything inherently wrong with loving the underdog. That said, I don't consider all of those examples heroes. Specifically because just belonging to a group does not warrant calling them a hero.



> This is a hero. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLFMi7eSbdY Now having listened to this, does calling someone a hero that just showed up not cheapen what a hero really is ? How many can even come close to living up to this guy ? I see people get shot out of stupidity on PD's and they get called heros. Is that the way things should be ?


Agreed. That is a heck of a story! However, people will always overuse terms. Does it make the term "hero" in this example seem to mean less overall? Probably. Does it at all cheapen what a true hero is? No. I think it's largely semantics, and when you see or hear something that is truly great and heroic, it is apparent. I do see your point though and am largely in agreement about that.



> Just like the two women that have been mentioned, it doesn't make being against the idea females decoys wrong.


I just guess I'd just view it as they came. I wouldn't be opposed to the idea so much as I'd personally prefer to base it on how they actually did at the job before presuming them to be great or terrible at something.

-Cheers


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Wow that was a lot of reading! I think it's great to get dogs on a large variation of people. Short or tall, light or dark, lots of hair no hair, male or female... and another funny thing i have always wondered which it would be real hard to find but if anyone has ever had a midget do work.... I wonder how a dog would respond. I have done decoy work for my personal dogs and others (more building and foundation). I have worked some very serious big dogs before also (several 90 lb gsd, rotts, dobes, and a very big mal just a few weeks ago at the psa event that some say is the hardest biting dog they have worked)..... normally very controlled and not sent from a distance. But I have caught dogs safely from a distance and most dogs are more than half my weight (I have been helicoptered a few times as well I must admit), it is not easy to find equipment that fits if this is not something you regularly do and don't have something custom made so therefore will limit your mobility and possibly your safety. I will agree that if your talking preparation for trial and regular routine decoying it probably should be a male. Females can do it, I have heard of great female decoys very similar to skill level of a male but it is hard to come by. I agree with Kadi on the center of gravity and we are flexible and use more of our lower body which is a great thing for a leg dog. Obviously the strength and stamina I would believe will go to the guys every day of the week. A good helper/decoy should be able to get into the dogs mind and many females can do that! I have seen several times where a dog was apprehending a female and the dog would circle the female in a happy bouncy way... I have seen females sweet talk in gay little voices the k9's in the vehicles of their patrol cars and they shut up and you can hear them wagging their tails. I would say if you are doing strictly sport it probably isn't vital to use a female at anytime cause the chances of them working a trial is slim to none but if you plan to have a dog protect you in real life I would advise you get your dog worked on a female more than a handful of times. I personally have had several situations with females... I am a young female that's 4"11 and 115lbs. I depend on my dog if I am jumped, robbed, stalked, etc. I enjoy seeing females get into any kind of bite equipment though! especially when they know they are getting ready to work a serious hard biting dog!!!


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

oh and yes.... hot helpers are always wanted! male or female!!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I don't think it's a sexist attitude at all. It is odd, in the fact that there are so few and, why are there so few? I think the ones that do exist are good but they are really few and far between.

I don't buy into the fact that one can use them for young and weak dogs to strengthen their character. Here, a male Schutzdiensthelfer if he's good can help the pup along and as for the weak dog, then going to a female helper for this reason alone will just evade the issue in the long run.

What I could see of benefit is a female Vereinshelfer (Club helper) who would be in charge of the protection work but not the physical bitework. Here, she can be equal to her male counterpart, or maybe better, or worse!!!

I'm trying to imagine a female "Vincenco Magnatii" and the dominance that this little man exudes is enough to keep many a dog in awe of him without his even being physical.

We had nigh on 30 IPO 3 at one of our trials this year. Is this possible for the "weaker" sex to carry out? This is only a regional trial. What are the odds on a female working 100 dogs? Am not saying it can't be done but am wondering.

As "development" helper in the Club, probably superior to some males but, having attained a great deal of experience, wouldn't they want to be utilised at trials and, here, I see problems not only from themselves but from the competitors, whereby, the trial helper faces far less problems than the "development" helper but needs the physical and mental dominance to see it through.

Am off to the "Fitness Centre" this moment ha ha ha


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## Eric Shearer (Oct 30, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> material lust ?? I rarely see aggression in a dog that works in Sch. Thats just me though. I do know what you are talking about with the lack of skill in working a dog.


I totally agree... most dogs don't show aggression... and not all dogs have what it takes...and that is why I say Anne is one of the best. I know the difference as do you and I am totally frustrated with all of the silent guards and weak barks with no meaning and the opposite is the basis of her training. No "flanking" no fear aggression just a real fight between the helper and dog and she is a master at letting the dog win is subtle ways that builds the dogs power and confidence which intern leads to aggression. 
I'm with you Jeff... SchH. as a whole is weak but I still play... and there are still some out there that like the dog doing what they are doing for the right reasons. 
I'm starting to play Mondio out here with OJ and Robert Wademan... (which will be interesting as I am still doing SchH. until I finish my titles) There is a trial this weekend in Oxnard that I'm going to check out. Looks like I am going to be dusting off the suit again... SWEET!!!! I thought I'd never use it again after PSA died here in So Cal... Mondio Cert. here I come!!! I hope!
E


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I really liked the nationals. They did a real nice job of setting up stuff, and were great to be around. I am glad that you have access to them, should be a real asset to you.

They are working on weakening Mondio, but hopefully with the elections coming up we will get some new blood on the board, and get to the core issues that are just not being addressed, or more than likely, politicced to death. : )


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

> I am certain there is no chick in the world that could beat me in a fight


http://www.criscyborg.com/

my moneys on her

Hey Jeff have you seen Dean Calderon's dogs work?
or Mark Saccoccio's, dean trained him, 

the aggression in the blind is damn right impressive


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Is it aggression that you are looking at, or frustration ?

It is a dog, so after 6000 blinds, I doubt that the dog really believes anymore, ya know ?


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> she does more than schH Matt.
> 
> A dog is a dog and they all have breaking points.
> 
> How are you training your dog to deal with serious pressure Matt? How about you come and train with us on sat am? Nobody is going to try and break your dog btw that's just shit talk and you wouldn't want to work with somebody that would try to run a dog. But if you think it can't happen, you have some learning to due. Were you at the Desert Dog trials a few months ago? How many of those police k9s looked like shit? A LOT!




Are there some dogs that she, or lots of other people, could run, yes, im sure even some police or military dogs, but thats why I specified the legit ones. Just like are there guys that tough chicks could beat up, yes, but not any legit ones.

(It would never happen, but I guess our hypothetical bet would be whether she could run Chucky, I dont think for a second she could)

(and ref the training, it actually seems to be going quite well with just me PT'ng him, and a bite or two maybe every two weeks, when Im looking for more reps, then you'll see me)


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

David Ruby said:


> Hey Matt, I think that would depend. If you are talking about the training or the skills in general, I'll disagree. There are women in lots of Martial Arts gyms training at a high level. They have been in the minority the times I've been to them, but they are still out there. Also, Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu are by their very nature about negating size & strength advantages, so to say they are beyond any woman to train a/o compete at any serious level is almost inherently false.
> 
> If you are saying that Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos would lose against Fedor, Brock, or B.J. Penn in an actual match, sure, almost indefinitely. That is not really the same though.
> 
> ...




I will have to disagree too, as a blue belt in bjj (years ago) I was able to 'man' handle one of the best female bjj black belts in the world, and she was my size and built like a guy


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

Mike Lauer said:


> http://www.criscyborg.com/
> 
> my moneys on her
> 
> ...




1) really? what does she fight at, 140? (although I would let Gina Carano beat me in a fight.....*sigh*)....90+ times out of a 100, no chance in hell


2) she has (obviously) taken enough testosterone that she would probably count as a guy now


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Comparing dog training skills and fighting skills?
really?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

I can have some bites, but I´m no where near to be a decoy. To small (1.60m, about 5ft2?), to light (ok have some prego kilo's left, now about 60 kg (about 120 pound)) and not strong enough.

Do you see me to take Spike on a full distance stick attack... I would have broken ribs, land 3-4 meters away from the collision (sp?) spot and will taste dirt/grass for a few weeks :mrgreen:

I can work a puppy on a puppy sleeve, attacks on a very short distance with a light dog, be the decoy in the woods and other non-biting excercises, and be a passive civil decoy.

I have done, and are willing to, all from the above. I can help a (light) dog on technique (which I can apply with my short experience). But a dog won't learn much if I hit the ground on an attack, so no, I'm not decoy material.


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