# Bitesuits suitable for PSA Style upper body work.



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Hey I do French Ring but we have been finishing off our dogs training to target upper body on retour d'esquives and other situations. 

We have a gamut of suits in our club and even the training weight tops from Demenat all the decoys are getting punished bad especially on the bicep bites and collarbone bites. 

Is there a specific cut of suit that you PSA decoys use? Or do you use more padding underneath on top of a product like under armour?


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## manny rose (Jun 3, 2010)

Try the neoprene gauntlets they have on most equipment sites....if that is too skimpy for you they also sell padded gauntlets that offer more padding also to go on pre suit like the neoprene. Check knvp equipment suppliers for the under padding ones. Also most any suit maker will add thicker padding in the bi/tri cept area of suit if you request....a few people have done it with real nice results...say training weight padding only in the bi/tri and maybe armpit shoulder area and then rest of suit in semi or comp. If that aint enough......get a tougher decoy...lol


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Hey I do French Ring but we have been finishing off our dogs training to target upper body on retour d'esquives and other situations.
> 
> We have a gamut of suits in our club and even the training weight tops from Demenat all the decoys are getting punished bad especially on the bicep bites and collarbone bites.
> 
> Is there a specific cut of suit that you PSA decoys use? Or do you use more padding underneath on top of a product like under armour?


Most of the serious PSA decoys I know go with either Demanet or, lately, Seynaeve. When I ordered my bite suit, I got it from Mic Foster, who supplied a lot of the suits for quite a few PSA decoys I know. I had the option to get reinforced biceps and triceps, so I went with a semi-comp with the reinforcement. Now, I'm a woman so my arms are much smaller than most men and I don't seem to get bruised up as badly. It also depends on how the dog is biting. If the dog bites full and pushes in, it's a lot less punishing than when they have a less full grip and wind up pinching. 

Jonathan Katz, who is a member on here, can tell you more about the Seynaeve. I know he has one and has ordered some for decoys in his region and they all seem to be happy with them.

As far as wearing Under Armour, unless it's really cold (which usually it's not as most trials are in the spring/summer, not many decoys I know wear much of anything but a neoprene gauntlet.


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## manny rose (Jun 3, 2010)

Basically....What I Just Wrote...lol


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## manny rose (Jun 3, 2010)

And under armour no matter what the weather helps keep sweat back to help keep suit dry....and also as you propably know doing ring, the under armour top is same as spandex under the bottoms....helps tremendously with your movement under the suit.


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

manny rose said:


> Basically....What I Just Wrote...lol


You beat me to it! 
:lol:


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## manny rose (Jun 3, 2010)

Its all good... Just had to mees with ya!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

manny rose said:


> Basically....What I Just Wrote...lol


He he. Thanks Manny and Ariel! 

You know any suppliers of the KNPV equipment in North America? I've heard of the reinforced biceps and triceps built in, I wonder if the collar bone area can be reinforced too? All of our dogs are targeting center mass it's pretty exciting but can easily be a decoy bloodbath! One of our last sessions with a semi comp Demenat top my 45 lb female targeted collarbone going up over the stick barrage, she punctured the suit and clamped on to the decoy's man boob and punctured that too through the suit! :lol:


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## Jake Brandyberry (Jan 24, 2010)

The best thing that I have found it to use hprse wraps on the biceps. They don't slip n slide like the neoprene does and they stat tight so that there is no pinching. You are pretty much screwed with any good fitting suit on the collarbone. Only real solution there is a marshmallow man ray allen or something like that.


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## Chris Keister (Jun 28, 2008)

I have a slight masochistic side to me and enjoy a little pain . The kimono cut is a little better than the standard semi comp cut. I tried adding padding specific to upper arm bites in a Dement jacket and didn't like it. If I had to do it again I would size it larger in the arm measurements so there is more room to slip the bite. 

Gauntlets or wraps are to only other real solution that comes to mind for me.


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> He he. Thanks Manny and Ariel!
> 
> You know any suppliers of the KNPV equipment in North America? I've heard of the reinforced biceps and triceps built in, I wonder if the collar bone area can be reinforced too? All of our dogs are targeting center mass it's pretty exciting but can easily be a decoy bloodbath! One of our last sessions with a semi comp Demenat top my 45 lb female targeted collarbone going up over the stick barrage, she punctured the suit and clamped on to the decoy's man boob and punctured that too through the suit! :lol:


MOOBS?! Oh heaven's no!


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

Ariel Peldunas said:


> Most of the serious PSA decoys I know go with either Demanet or, lately, Seynaeve. When I ordered my bite suit, I got it from Mic Foster, who supplied a lot of the suits for quite a few PSA decoys I know. I had the option to get reinforced biceps and triceps, so I went with a semi-comp with the reinforcement. Now, I'm a woman so my arms are much smaller than most men and I don't seem to get bruised up as badly. It also depends on how the dog is biting. If the dog bites full and pushes in, it's a lot less punishing than when they have a less full grip and wind up pinching.
> 
> Jonathan Katz, who is a member on here, can tell you more about the Seynaeve. I know he has one and has ordered some for decoys in his region and they all seem to be happy with them.
> 
> As far as wearing Under Armour, unless it's really cold (which usually it's not as most trials are in the spring/summer, not many decoys I know wear much of anything but a neoprene gauntlet.


Thanks for the shout out Ariel! 

I started the PSA Seynaeve revolution. When we told Seynaeve what we were doing they recommended a kimono suit. we told them we wanted to do KNPV with ring suits. They made for us a bicep cuff to add protection and to save the suits from wear and tare. We do 90% bicep targeting and we wanted the suit to be able to last a long time. If the cuff gets beat up we cut it off the suit and its still brand new.

I myself don't like neoprene gauntlets. They seem to cut off the circulation in my arm. Seynaeve makes padded under-padding for every area under the suit. 

My latest training suit is a Seynaeve comp suit with semi-comp arms and a left bicep cuff. I love this thing!


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Yup. Thats the thing about the Seynaeve suits. He makes the suits to address the particular sport as best he can. And you can call and specify. Trick is getting him on the phone. Busy guy. I highly recommend his suits though. Good luck.


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

Here is a left bicep cuff in action.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jonathan Katz said:


> Thanks for the shout out Ariel!
> 
> I started the PSA Seynaeve revolution. When we told Seynaeve what we were doing they recommended a kimono suit. we told them we wanted to do KNPV with ring suits. They made for us a bicep cuff to add protection and to save the suits from wear and tare. We do 90% bicep targeting and we wanted the suit to be able to last a long time. If the cuff gets beat up we cut it off the suit and its still brand new.
> 
> ...


Hey Jon, how does it feel taking leg bites? Would be interesting to get a left leg cuff for my left leg only (not pivot leg), but may not be necessary. Guess I should probably ask Geoff and the other ring folks.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jonathan Katz said:


> I started the PSA Seynaeve revolution. When we told Seynaeve what we were doing they recommended a kimono suit. we told them we wanted to do KNPV with ring suits. They made for us a bicep cuff to add protection and to save the suits from wear and tare. We do 90% bicep targeting and we wanted the suit to be able to last a long time. If the cuff gets beat up we cut it off the suit and its still brand new.
> 
> I myself don't like neoprene gauntlets. They seem to cut off the circulation in my arm. Seynaeve makes padded under-padding for every area under the suit.
> 
> My latest training suit is a Seynaeve comp suit with semi-comp arms and a left bicep cuff. I love this thing!


Cool Jonathan, hopefully we can touch base when I am trialing in ME, MA or CT this year. I'd love to see the suit. 

Still doesn't do much for that collar bone bite. Gotta protect those MOOBS from unnecessary roughness!! :mrgreen: Any ideas there outside of making the suit a bit bigger in measurement or the extra Seynave padding?


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## Evan Stuart (May 19, 2011)

seynaeve makes a padded under vest or under shirt that I would think could help. It's not a muzzle vest, just extra padding for body bites. 

here is the link:

http://www.seynaevedogsport.com/dogsport_equipment/EXTRA_PROTECTION.pdf


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## Rik Wolterbeek (Jul 19, 2009)

I always have and still use the horse wraps. I wrap them always on my arms and put on top of that a knee protector, the ones volley-ball players use. I also have shin protectors (the ones they use for soccer) and use those if I am already bruised up and know I have another dog coming biting in the same spot.

Rik


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Hey Rik, when you use the polo horse wraps, how tight do they need to be? Like real tight or just pretty snug? You're the man for still doing this work, by the way.


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Hey Jon, how does it feel taking leg bites? Would be interesting to get a left leg cuff for my left leg only (not pivot leg), but may not be necessary. Guess I should probably ask Geoff and the other ring folks.


I was taught suit work in a comp suit so i can't comment on the pain, but this suit is the first suit I can really move in. I think a left leg cuff could add a lot of protection if you are doing a lot of grip work on the leg. I only have 3 leg dogs in my club, so I just suffer through it. lol:smile:


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Pierre from CAN-AM used to make a padded vest to wear under your jacket for chest bites.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Tell your decoys to quit being pussies. If they got man boobs and are getting bit in them that is good insentive to loose the weight. I use Neoprene arms if I am doing lots of arm stuff. Chest bites just got to suck it up. Did you see Freds collar bone after Edmonton?


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> Cool Jonathan, hopefully we can touch base when I am trialing in ME, MA or CT this year. I'd love to see the suit.
> 
> Still doesn't do much for that collar bone bite. Gotta protect those MOOBS from unnecessary roughness!! :mrgreen: Any ideas there outside of making the suit a bit bigger in measurement or the extra Seynave padding?


Seynaeve makes two cuts of suits, "American Cut" & "European Cut". The american cut is tighter to the body and european cut is baggier. You could also ask for reinforced collar bone, I'm sure they would make it for you!

I hope we can meet at a trial this year and I would love to show you my suit!


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

What is the PRO and cone of the 2 cuts?


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

andreas broqvist said:


> What is the PRO and cone of the 2 cuts?


It's the space the decoy has to move in the suit. The american cut being closer to the body means the suit moves when the decoy moves. The European cut has more space and the suit moves a split second after the decoy moves. It also allows the decoy to slip the bite.


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## Evan Stuart (May 19, 2011)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Tell your decoys to quit being pussies. If they got man boobs and are getting bit in them that is good insentive to loose the weight.


HAHA! It's like you were in my head!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Hans Akerbakk said:


> Pierre from CAN-AM used to make a padded vest to wear under your jacket for chest bites.


that thing might be ok for collarbone...but I would NOT expect it to be very good at all for the bicep/armpit areas,,

I bought one, first bite from the first dog I worked, went right through it, under an older Clement semi jacket..

get creative Geoff...leather and even cardboard can work some magic...

sounds really ghetto, but decent sized pieces of cardboard over the collarbone area, on the inside of the suit can do in a pinch, until you guys find the right guards...


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## Rik Wolterbeek (Jul 19, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Hey Rik, when you use the polo horse wraps, how tight do they need to be? Like real tight or just pretty snug? You're the man for still doing this work, by the way.


After doing it so many times you will figure out how tight you can go with the wraps. The tighter the better the protection. Thanks for the compliment, I still feel I can do it, a lot slower and for sure I need a lot more recovery time for my muscles but I still enjoy it.
Rik


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Tell your decoys to quit being pussies. If they got man boobs and are getting bit in them that is good insentive to loose the weight. I use Neoprene arms if I am doing lots of arm stuff. Chest bites just got to suck it up. Did you see Freds collar bone after Edmonton?


Yeah we have been riding him like a donkey about it! LOL A little bird told us to that you went out and bought some soccer padding for under your suit after the beating you got the first day in Edmonton, Ares, Riker and Vader were a little rough on your crispy bones were they? :smile:

We had one of the green decoys yesterday get his neck grazed by Pika's brother. He has a perfect imprint of Phin's incisors down from the clavicle into his chest and he killed the kids t-shirt before finding the suit. When we say center mass hits we mean it! LOL! 

That's the other thing is I'd like to get a higher cut for that area when we get a suit. You can see here that this suit doesn't really cover up the collar bone area and in the heat of the moment the dog could strike the exposed area if the decoy doesn't place the dog correctly.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)




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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


>


cool picture


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

The one I saw was good for chest back ,bicep and tricep. looked more like hockey shoulder pads with out the plastic . Dean Taylor used to wear it for George Vasils Mals they were the size of small donkeys, George liked them to bite center chest. The vest was open in the arm pit . The other design I have used may have been from Demanet Crystal Peters owns it and it's a vest made out of french linen that you wear over your jacket and it has a bite bar sewn across the chest and the back.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Hans Akerbakk said:


> The one I saw was good for chest back ,bicep and tricep. looked more like hockey shoulder pads with out the plastic . Dean Taylor used to wear it for George Vasils Mals they were the size of small donkeys, George liked them to bite center chest. The vest was open in the arm pit . The other design I have used may have been from Demanet Crystal Peters owns it and it's a vest made out of french linen that you wear over your jacket and it has a bite bar sewn across the chest and the back.


Yeah that one with the bite bar is a Can-Am product have heard mixed reviews about the usefulness of the bite bar. I wonder what brand was the one that Dean had, that sounds like the ticket.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> cool picture


Yeah cool picture but didn't show nothing about the suit. Just some dude waving with a dog attached to his Moob!


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## Chrystal Peters (Feb 17, 2008)

Hey Geoff - the vest Hans is referring to was actually made by Freddy in Belgium. It's good for teaching young dogs to target, but not sure how useful it will be for the finishing work you're referring to.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

FINALLY....................a thread that delivers


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Chrystal Peters said:


> Hey Geoff - the vest Hans is referring to was actually made by Freddy in Belgium. It's good for teaching young dogs to target, but not sure how useful it will be for the finishing work you're referring to.


Thanks Chrystal I know Pierre makes one similar and it is like you say for young dogs targeting. Not more for saving wear and tear on the decoys and the suit itself, which is what I am thinking.


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

I"m pretty sure Pierre made the vest he was in Tacoma at the time, or check kick boxing Karate outlets we wore a vest for full contact that was leather and felt padded. I was also thinking of a kids back catcher pad from baseball , or a welding jacket they have ones that cover arms shoulders and chest but stop at ribs like a matadors jacket.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

> LOL A little bird told us to that you went out and bought some soccer padding for under your suit after the beating you got the first day in Edmonton, Ares, Riker and Vader were a little rough on your crispy bones were they?


I wear shin pads and neoprene arm gaurd all the time. I train in a 5 year old comp suit. But yea they deffinatly do bite hard.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I train in a 5 year old comp suit. .


You are a brave man Daniel! O


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

No just a poor man. Can always find something to spend money on instead of a new suit. I spent the weekend in BC with Chrystal and ACE. I need a new suit made out of steel for that dog. He hurts!


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

comp suit /pain = speed squared


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