# teaching regrip, rebite, full bite



## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Hi,
I have a year old male GSD from Slovakia (west german lines mostly, some Slovak/Czech). He is a green dog, already started over there. I am taking him to a club for schutzhund work once or twice a week.

my question is about the regrip - this week my trainer made a comment that they (in Slovakia) hadn't taught the dog to regrip his bite. he said, as long as he gets a good hard bite the first time, he'll be okay ...

but was wondering more about this. it must be natural for some dogs to latch on and not let go? (maybe some pit bull in there, ha ha). an individual thing? or bred in? trained in? all of the above?

I searched for regrip and got a few threads. My dog is not mouthy and goes for the helper with a full, hard bite. he hangs on, handles being struck w/ stick, and sometimes fights back (with paws, his strength). he is being worked on bungee cord/tie out. It is hot here and he is still getting used to it ... getting better as we go.

this is a video of him when he was a 6 mo puppy
http://youtu.be/hvrZFtvNAzQ

when I choke him out, off the sleeve, he hangs on for a loooonggg time. for me, a female, holding up an 85 lb dog is difficult. he also holds on with his feet to keep from dropping it. we have started throwing him another sleeve and cracking whip and he outs right away.

thanks for any input,
newbie
Donna


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> Hi,
> I have a year old male GSD from Slovakia (west german lines mostly, some Slovak/Czech). He is a green dog, already started over there. I am taking him to a club for schutzhund work once or twice a week.
> 
> my question is about the regrip - this week my trainer made a comment that they (in Slovakia) hadn't taught the dog to regrip his bite. he said, as long as he gets a good hard bite the first time, he'll be okay ...
> ...


all i can say is that the NEED to fill the mouth full is evident in some dogs,,, regardless of whatever training is practiced..


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

hello,saw your video 6 mths looks very good 
what do you want to train he has a very nice grip ipo schutzhund regripping cost a lot of points 
he must stay on his gripp and must be calm and full on an ipo sleeve thats if exspierenced not too difficult by learning him out whith another sleeve trowing towards him i think you can easy ruin his really nice grip and focus when hes on the bite 
by choking you make him more possesive and more difficult on the out 
in my eyes when a dog can really bite well he can out well also 
than give him a rebite on the same sleeve again out than rebite out than rebite than make more time inbetween 
a really easy way for the out is whitout any pressure use a wooden stick whith round top and slide it betweeen sleeve and mouth in his troath using the word out then stick it in 
than rebite again 
i have a special sleeve whith a hole for this purpose in the midlle 
but between his mouth and sleeve works also ok 
you teach him than the out clean whith no pressure at all 
greetings gerben


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

_hello,saw your video 6 mths looks very good_ 
6 months have passed. just got him. thanks.

_what do you want to train he has a very nice grip ipo schutzhund regripping cost a lot of _
_points_
what to train schutzhund, USA or DVG

_by choking you make him more possesive and more difficult on the out _
have read that, but I think we're working more on bite than out right now

_in my eyes when a dog can really bite well he can out well also _
you mean when trained? he does out well and fast when presented with another sleeve

_a really easy way for the out is whitout any pressure use a wooden stick whith round top and slide it betweeen sleeve and mouth in his troath using the word out then stick it in _
interesting. I have seen them put the stick in between the sleeve and dogs mouth to pry off when the dog did not get a good bite and was helper's fault for not presenting item correctly.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> all i can say is that the NEED to fill the mouth full is evident in some dogs,,, regardless of whatever training is practiced..


is that a need or part of their inherit drive/breeding? or both. what is a need? an obsession? instinct?

off topic, but, my dog has a need or drive to eat thru his kiddie pool and try to drag it around his pen while i'ts full of water. he also has the need and drive to carry his ball on a rope around and drop it in the pool. he has a need to keep anything he gets in his mouth if I act like I want it, too (possessiveness).


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> is that a need or part of their inherit drive/breeding? or both. what is a need? an obsession? instinct?
> 
> off topic, but, my dog has a need or drive to eat thru his kiddie pool and try to drag it around his pen while i'ts full of water. he also has the need and drive to carry his ball on a rope around and drop it in the pool. he has a need to keep anything he gets in his mouth if I act like I want it, too (possessiveness).


a need IS and inherent part of inborn drive and breeding.... an obsession And an instinct..what is your question..????


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Donna DeYoung said:


> is that a need or part of their inherit drive/breeding? or both. what is a need? an obsession? instinct?
> 
> off topic, but, my dog has a need or drive to eat thru his kiddie pool and try to drag it around his pen while i'ts full of water. he also has the need and drive to carry his ball on a rope around and drop it in the pool. he has a need to keep anything he gets in his mouth if I act like I want it, too (possessiveness).


My Dutchie doesn't have much bite training because I thought she's going to be a complete dud, we did other things. Then all of a sudden she decided she wanted to bite and when she does it now you would think she is trying to swallow what it is she's biting and her teeth are just getting in the way. It's more then just "full bite", looks more like a fat kid stuffing his face with cake. In her case it's definitely genetic and not taught. I think you could teach a dog some thing similar with enough time, but for her this is a hard wired desire. 

It's not like eating a pool. Most dogs will chase a squirel but some will run through walls and climb up trees to get at it, it's a hard wired level of wanting some thing.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Marta Haus said:


> My Dutchie doesn't have much bite training because I thought she's going to be a complete dud, we did other things. Then all of a sudden she decided she wanted to bite and when she does it now you would think she is trying to swallow what it is she's biting and her teeth are just getting in the way. It's more then just "full bite", looks more like a fat kid stuffing his face with cake. In her case it's definitely genetic and not taught. I think you could teach a dog some thing similar with enough time, but for her this is a hard wired desire.
> 
> It's not like eating a pool. Most dogs will chase a squirel but some will run through walls and climb up trees to get at it, it's a hard wired level of wanting some thing.


yes check its gums in the back at the fulcrum, where there is no teeth when it is done...they will be raw from friction...that is what I was talking about..

that cannot be taught...I do not think


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> yes check its gums in the back at the fulcrum, where there is no teeth when it is done...they will be raw from friction...that is what I was talking about..
> 
> that cannot be taught...I do not think


Yes! If we're playing fetch the stick and she thinks I'm waiting to long to throw it, she comes in for a dirty bite and pretty much it's the elbow of her jaw that hits the stick with mouth at full open and then she grips it with her back teeth as she's falling off. 

I think you can teach a dog to regrip and push in, but this is border line psychotic desire.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Donna DeYoung said:


> Hi,
> ...when I choke him out, off the sleeve, he hangs on for a loooonggg time. for me, a female, holding up an 85 lb dog is difficult. he also holds on with his feet to keep from dropping it. we have started throwing him another sleeve and cracking whip and he outs right away.
> 
> thanks for any input,
> ...


 Donna, what is all this CHOKING about?! IMO it only helps build conflict and NOT trust. Using verbal markers doesn't help? If the dog has a fight at one end and a battle at the other, what should happen? Can't this critter work on a simple, "Out?"


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Donna DeYoung said:


> Hi,
> I have a year old male GSD from Slovakia (west german lines mostly, some Slovak/Czech). He is a green dog, already started over there. I am taking him to a club for schutzhund work once or twice a week.
> 
> my question is about the regrip - this week my trainer made a comment that they (in Slovakia) hadn't taught the dog to regrip his bite. he said, as long as he gets a good hard bite the first time, he'll be okay ...
> ...


Video grips look fine to me. Hard to say sometimes with a consistant regrip, training, genetics, helper too far away from dog coming in fast with experience with the gymnastics of a speed bite. Your dog is still young. Everyone here is right that if you plan on IPO sports a dog that comes off the sleeve no "V" score. No one mentions to "flank" the dog for an "OUT" here but after all else tried it worked great for me!! I too have a very powerful male lotta dog for my size. If you do go that route make sure you do it right and stay safe, easy to get bit, but after three times I have a nice out and a lot more respect with- out conflict. That was about a year ago my dog was your dogs age then. Move on get on with life it's great!!! looks lke you have real nice dog


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Just out of curiosity- in the video while he is with the trainer that sold him to you he looks fine. So is it a question about grips or are you trying to show us how well your dog bites?

Why are you working him on a Bungee?

Can we see his grips as they are now? Maybe if we see his behavior on the outs we can help you.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I just want to see your GSD that has thumbs. All this "gripping" he must have powerful wrists.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

as I recall, he does have thumbs.

It was a question on grips and trying to understand what "re-grip" is and when it's taught or not taught or what dogs do what. And sure, like to know if dog is biting well. Don't have current video. I'm too busy handling dog. will get some soon, though. when it cools off (he he).

in response to other responses - we are not yet teaching him the out as far as I know. There are no "outs". nothing verbal. The choking is done by holding him up by the agitation collar. He seems to be getting quicker at dropping the sleeve while hung as he knows he is going to get it again. Will ask trainer when we teach the out. It's probably AFTER we get the bite he wants.

Why working on bungee? As opposed to me holding dog and trying to be a "post" - the bungee is tied to a telephone pole. I hold dog w/ slack in line. Decoy agitates him, I say "Packen", dog rushes decoy. Use of bungee is a training tool and also because I do not have strength to hold dog. Once he gets the bite, trainer pulls back on sleeve and bungee (leash) basically pulls the other way. Dog strung up between the two. This builds a strong grip? After decoy slips sleeve, I call dog to me, help hold sleeve w/ hand under jaw, and stroke/pet him for calmness. Then I choke him out.

I do not dictate what we do but what we do at club seems to work. Yes they have titled other dogs  and No I do not know reason behind everything we are doing and as it's a busy club I don't always have time to ask. which is why I'm here asking.

Thanks for comments on nice dog. He is coming along great and finally slept in my room all night without having to be crated. (baby gate at door helped).

D


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

Jeff, you can almost see the thumb in this picture.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> aDon't have current video. I'm too busy handling dog. will get some soon, though. when it cools off (he he).
> D


tripod....

or if there are more people there than just you, they will be glad to film for you...

I cant remember ever being too "busy" to take 3-4 mintues to set up a tripod, or take 5 seconds to hand someone a camera...

if you don't want to video, just say so...


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

kamphuis gerben said:


> a really easy way for the out is whitout any pressure use a wooden stick whith round top and slide it betweeen sleeve and mouth in his troath using the word out then stick it in
> than rebite again
> i have a special sleeve whith a hole for this purpose in the midlle
> but between his mouth and sleeve works also ok
> ...


another concept/method I am interested in seeing or hearing more about. Are you actually poking the stick into the back of the dogs throat to induce a gag like reflex? Are you giving the out command at the same time? Giving a re-bite command as well? 
I think I need to start a "GERBEN THREAD" to get some attention on my inquiries.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

here is video. you asked. you recieve.
http://youtu.be/My-3t0BINq8


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Your dog appears to be high drive and balanced, i'm surprised he didn't take a chunk of flesh from that guy at the 55 second mark. You're lucky to train with such great people. Wish you the best.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Donna DeYoung said:


> Hi,
> I have a year old male GSD from Slovakia (west german lines mostly, some Slovak/Czech). He is a green dog, already started over there. I am taking him to a club for schutzhund work once or twice a week.
> 
> my question is about the regrip - this week my trainer made a comment that they (in Slovakia) hadn't taught the dog to regrip his bite. he said, as long as he gets a good hard bite the first time, he'll be okay ...
> ...


His grip looks good, but in the video, they were encouraging him to not counter. (Feet up off the ground, keeping feet off the helper with the stick) incites the opposition reflex. If you are in a sport where grip is judged, then this is a way to do it. Good helper work starts him full, and he stays there. Was this the breeders where you got the puppy from in the video?

Lifting the dog off the bite creates a desire to bite more if done properly. You get to a point where an out has to be addressed, though. When you get to this point, have your trainer to teach the out. Using whatever method you do, the rebite is the big deal. Whether you gag with a stick, gag with the sleeve by pulling into it, or do it motivationally, by waiting for them to release, etc..the rebite is what conditions the behavior to repeat itself, more strongly than the compulsion.


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