# scotch shepherd?



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

my daughter's reading "The Call of the Wild", and asked me what a "Scotch shepherd" was, as Buck's dam is one in the book (she DOES have a good eye!--my daughter; don't know about Buck's dam  ).

anyone have an idea? :?:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

ann freier said:


> my daughter's reading "The Call of the Wild", and asked me what a "Scotch shepherd" was, as Buck's dam is one in the book (she DOES have a good eye!--my daughter; don't know about Buck's dam  ).
> 
> anyone have an idea? :?:


A Scots Shepherd Dog is supposed to be a forerunner of the Collie, I believe.

Anyone ever see one? Is a Scots Shepherd actually a Shetland Collie (Sheltie)?

QUOTE: The Shetland Sheepdog originated in the 1700s from the Shetland Islands, off the coast of Scotland. Dubbed the Dwarf Scotch Shepherd and later the Shetland Collie, the breed is actually a miniature version of the large working sheepdogs of Scotland and was re-named in 1908 when the Shetland Sheepdog Club was formed in Lerwick. END
from http://www.dogslife.com.au/breeds?cid=7745&pid=145522

By "large working sheepdogs of Scotland," I think they mean Scots Shepherd.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

this makes sense to me (remember, Buck was a 150# dog, so i would hope his dam wasn't a sheltie :wink: ). 

anyone else have ideas? and thanks, connie! 

i took Brix to Cait's English class last Friday to give the students an idea of how big 150# was (Brix is 75-80). it was neat: he gimped around, throwing himself off-balance wagging his tail, whining to get to Cait, then he recognized (somehow) one of Cait's friends and just stood, and looked right at her until i released him to go visit. 

it was a good opportunity to do some socialization with him, plus he had to deal with really slippery steps (i know, w/his pano, but we went slow, and he did fine. this was the first day he was really lame on his L rear) and floors. 

and, when we were waiting outside the office to check in, he sat and simply watched about 6 students checking in/out; didn't offer to go up and visit, just sat there observing. i thought that was great, but what do i know?

at any rate, a good experience for him and the kids (they got a short lecture on pano, poor things--but they asked  ).


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I read somewhere it is a GSD with a drinking problem


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I read somewhere it is a GSD with a drinking problem


I refuse to laugh at that.



:-# :-#


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I agree with Connie. It's the forerunner of the modern Collie.
It's definately Scots Shepherd, not Scotch Shepherd. 
If that were the case, I would have to agree with Susan.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I like Susan's explanation better, the type dog I could REALLY hang out with.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

well, all i can say is that the author called Buck's dam a "scotch shepherd" in the book, perhaps he'd been "partaking" a bit much when he wrote it, IDK.

Buck's sire was a st. bernard, so i'm thinking that Buck was a big hairy powerful SOB, that probably would put my little GSD to shame when it came to pulling loads, and surviving in the Artic (though i'm not sure--Brix seems pretty possesive about "his" stuff, and the weather doesn't bother him much...).

i do like Susan's definition tho--but not for MY pup


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## Chris Regan (Mar 7, 2009)

Hi every one, I am also reading Call of the Wild in this college English class I am in.

From my research the Scotch Shepherd is what we today call the Collie I would venture that Shep Buck's mother was one of the three bigger breeds of Collie. Can you imagine a large dog like a Saint Bernard and the little Shetland sheepdog (Shelties) having relations. It would of been difficult for a small dog to bare such large pups let alone care them to term.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I have never heard the term. A Scotch shepherd would make me think Border Collie only b/c the BC is the top rated herder of working stock dogs. And this isn't my opinion. Where did the term come from from, England?

Too many collies out there to say "collie." What type of collie?


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Chris Regan said:


> Can you imagine a large dog like a Saint Bernard and the little Shetland sheepdog (Shelties) having relations. It would of been difficult for a small dog to bare such large pups let alone care them to term.


I had a friend about twenty years ago that had a Newfoundland male and a small black and tan shep mix mutt. They produced three litters of puppies before he got around to getting her spayed. She was one of those dogs that went through pregnancy and birth with no complications. All of the pups looked like Lab mixes. 

Not as big a difference as a St Bernard and a Sheltie, but close.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I have never heard the term. A Scotch shepherd would make me think Border Collie only b/c the BC is the top rated herder of working stock dogs. And this isn't my opinion. Where did the term come from from, England?
> 
> Too many collies out there to say "collie." What type of collie?


Originally, from my undeerstanding, the collie dog was in refference to ANY dog that herded the Colly sheep. 
After WWII the "Border Collie" name became popular to distinguish the working Collie from the show collie.
I really can't verify any of this but it's what I've been told in the past.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

My understanding is that the royals and elite had been mixing borzoi with "collies" to get that *pretty* type, around 150 years ago (and this was the collie acknowledged by the Kennel Club). So I would think a "scotch shepherd" would look like a working sheepdog from Scotland (more BC/kelpie looking, or likely wouldn't have sighthound in the mix).


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

I imagine more English Shepherd-like than modern Collie-like. Just a guess.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've looked in my dog lexicons, American and English. Collie is a generic term. 

Scotch Collie or Rough-haired Collie is quoted, although I agree with Susan T. sounds like whisky supping canines.

I don't know when was the last time one of these dogs did anything remotely similar to work, apart from appearing in "Lassie films" when they were displayed as being near human.

Border Collies, are the working collies used in GB and the name "Border" stems from the border between Scotland and England. Sometimes you hear the name "Welsh Collie" but I wouldn't know the difference between a "Welsh" and a "Border".


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