# Selecting a Schutzhund prospect



## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

Oh my lord so I have never been so torn about selecting a pup! (I have also never really had to select a pup, they were always given to me or selected for me) So finally I have a breeder waiting for my decision on one of two male pups, a black or a sable...here is what I'm getting so far:

At almost 4 weeks:
Black: was the first to do everything...first to eat, first to try and escape the welping area; he was happy to try and get out and go exploring on his own.
He's "killing his bedding" and carrying around a toy. When he plays with the breeder he tends to want to pull her around. When eating he is very single minded and scarfing it down.
Sable: he's a bit bigger and a bit broader in build. He's nice also but he is content to hang out in the whelping area and hang out. He's just as playful as the black puppy, but a bit "slower" to get doing some things. When playing with the breeder he wants to tug and climb up onto her. When eating he is into his food, but will occasionally check and come and say hi, then go back to his food.
Both puppies wil come and snuggle with the breeder when they are tired.

As of today (at 5 weeks):
Black: is really starting to be a pain, he is getting into everything. He's heavier than the sable in weight, but she says he eats twice as much as the sable and she considers his weight more "bulk weight" because he is a little piggy.
Sable: is much more outgoing this week. He's climbing out of the whelping area and killing the rug, he is also trying to get the older dogs around to play with him. Though he isn't bigger than the black, he has the stockeir frame and (as she puts it) the better conformation of the two. 
She says that the sable settles more and is more willing to play with things while the black is off looking for something to get into.
She says that the black is more active and outgoing, while the sable is more eager to instigate play and not as busy...

This is such a hard call for me! I am told that both have nice drive but I don't know which to choose. On one hand I agree that you want a dog to be outgoing, but at the same time I don't want a dog that is so independant that he feels he can go satisfy himself on his own (I already did that once, no thanks on a second one)...

any suggestions?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Has she (breeder) done any retreive testing with them? You know me. I want that willing worker if all else is equal. 
If everythig tests out equal, go for the color you like. :grin: :grin: :wink:


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

I don't think she has, she's been pretty up front with everything she's seen so far...I think a good looking black dog is awesome, I do like what she says that the sable is the broader of the two (I think of Iltis on that one) and so far the one thing that sort of sticks in my mind is what she said that the sable will instigate play while the black is off into things (I think of Beowulf here) whew...indecisive? not me :wink:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I would ask if she would do some one on one retrieve testing. After Beowulf, I think you want a bit of less independence. Course with a sable you have to convince Ryan he's not going to get eaten......or peed on......or humped. :grin: :grin: :wink:


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Hey Lindsey,

I personally would go with the one that seems more balanced. If you go with the wild child he may end up being a little hectic (or have ADD)...LOL

What is the pedigree? Can you post it?

5 weeks is really early. I would wait until they are 7-8 weeks and do the Vollard puppy apptitude test.

Good Luck and Have Fun,

Julie


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## Daniel Cox (Apr 17, 2006)

Lynsey Fuegner said:


> Oh my lord so I have never been so torn about selecting a pup! (I have also never really had to select a pup, they were always given to me or selected for me) So finally I have a breeder waiting for my decision on one of two male pups, a black or a sable...here is what I'm getting so far:
> 
> At almost 4 weeks:
> Black: was the first to do everything...first to eat, first to try and escape the welping area; he was happy to try and get out and go exploring on his own.
> ...


From what you describe I would choose the black puppy.


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## Daniel Cox (Apr 17, 2006)

Daniel Cox said:


> From what you describe I would choose the black puppy.


So much can change because they are so young.. I would also suggest you make the final decision at 7 or 8 weeks.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

this is a great thread!! i myself would be leaning toward the sable at this point b/c he seems to be a bit more level-headed. as a beginning Sch handler i just don't want a crazy-drive, independent SOB.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

You know, puppies develop at different rates, what one shows one week the rest will have the next week and vice versa. Sometimes you need to just close your eyes and pick one. It's really more about what you do with him once you get him home.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> Hey Lindsey,
> 
> I personally would go with the one that seems more balanced. If you go with the wild child he may end up being a little hectic (or have ADD)...LOL
> 
> ...


Julie - I agree with you on the more balanced opinion, hectic, and worse off ADD (not bashing it, I myself am a bit ADD most days :wink: ) which si why so far I am leaning towards the sable.
I'm getting him from Cimmerian shepherds...here are his parents:
Sire: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/65025.html
and Dam: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/485026.html



Daniel Cox said:


> From what you describe I would choose the black puppy.


my only hesitation about the black puppy at this time is the indepenence thing...I had a really independent male bafore him who was a major pain in the ass, otherwise I like the outgoing attitude.



ann freier said:


> this is a great thread!! i myself would be leaning toward the sable at this point b/c he seems to be a bit more level-headed. as a beginning Sch handler i just don't want a crazy-drive, independent SOB.


I agree with you on this Ann, the breeder has told me that the drives on the two are pretty much the same, the only difference being the overall personalities, the black being the more outgoing and independent and the sable being more of the attention seeker



susan tuck said:


> You know, puppies develop at different rates, what one shows one week the rest will have the next week and vice versa. Sometimes you need to just close your eyes and pick one. It's really more about what you do with him once you get him home.


I've gotten to the point now where I am almost tempted to have the breeder surprise me...#-o


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Yup, close eyes and pick. They're freakin babies.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

The parents are very dark sables. Beautiful. I am guessing that the sable pup will be very dark as well. 


Good Luck,

Julie


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

So???? Which one did you choose???? Did you end up letting the breeder choose for you? Have any pics of him??? I LOVE puppy pics! :grin:

When will you pick him up? Sorry, this isn't 20 questions its just fun to hear about new puppys and the adventure that follows! :twisted:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I know.......but I ain't tellin! :razz: :grin:


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

Will Kline said:


> So???? Which one did you choose???? Did you end up letting the breeder choose for you? Have any pics of him??? I LOVE puppy pics! :grin:
> 
> When will you pick him up? Sorry, this isn't 20 questions its just fun to hear about new puppys and the adventure that follows! :twisted:


lol! Don't worry (as Bob can tell you) I love answering 20 questions! especially about puppies :grin: I ended up going with the sable pup, the breeder says that drives are pretty much the same; though honestly, after my last dog Beowulf, I'd take the less independent pup any day! I'll post some puppy pics in the picture gallery right after this thread :wink: As far as picking him up goes, the breeder is planning on shipping him out to me late next week. He's coming from Idaho, so I'm praying for good weather. I promise to update as soon as I get the little devil home :grin:


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

Hey all! I don't have any pictures yet (I know, I'm a horrible mommy...) but Mauser made it home last night :grin: he flew in around 9pm and we had a surprisingly restful night. He had his first encounter with the Schutzhund club this morning and was absolutely dynamite!  He's a real fireball and I couldn't be happier :grin: Thanks everyone for the advice throughout this thread!


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## Marie Miller (Jan 16, 2008)

I agree with Bob. When I did my first pick it was very difficult and I asked alot of people what they looked for. The one thing everyone missed was the retrieval testing. When I did my testing I brought my own toys to see reaction to new things, I watch the pups interact with each other and then separated. I watch for agility, decision making on how to get to hidden food tucked under things, I worked prey drive and did one on one playing. When I would throw a ball, the go out to the ball was fabulous, what we lacked was the return. Being a novice I did not realize that this is a major problem. The pup I picked has great FULL GRIPS and her agility is still awesome. I struggle on a daily basis for her WANTING to return things to me. She is 16 months old now and I am dreading teaching the dumbbell. I will probably wait until my BH is done before I tackle that. GO FOR THE ONE WHO WILL RETURN THINGS TO YOU AND WANT TO INTERACT!!
Learn by my mistake. Good luck


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Lynsey Fuegner said:


> Mauser made it home last night :grin: he flew in around 9pm and we had a surprisingly restful night.


*YAY!!! *Very happy to hear it was restful, my little guy was a real PITA (Pain in the [butt]) the first night. Don't think I got a wink of sleep until I broke down and slept next to him! 
I know, I know, I am just a softy! =;


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

Ya your so lucky that he slept my new girl screams her head off the last two nights, I took the advice of my friend her breeder and got out my earplugs from when I go shooting. I will sleep like a baby tonight


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

I've been playing with him quite a bit before bed to tire him out...he was so cute today; we were over at my fiance's house (that is not quite puppy proofed) and Muaser found a water bottle, after he "killed" it he tried to bring it over to me and when he couldn't pick it up and carry it to me he batted it over to where I was sitting and crawled into my lap, stretched out so his head was on touching Ryan too and fell asleep; now he's zonked out in the crate right next to me; he's really been a good boy so far.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hey kid, before Mauser decides he wants to take a bite out of Ryan I suggest you get rid of him (Mauser). I think I can find a good home for him.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Hey kid, before Mauser decides he wants to take a bite out of Ryan I suggest you get rid of him (Mauser). I think I can find a good home for him.


lol! I dunno...I've already given up one dog for Ryan...I think this time it would be Ryan's turn. :lol: just kidding!


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## Anne Flyzik (Jan 30, 2008)

Try this trick: flip a coin, say, for example, heads for the sable, tails for the black, and tell yourself that's gonna be your final decision.

Then when you flip and see the result, what happens? Does your heart go, awww, I didn't get the [black] [sable] one; or is your gut, your "flash" reaction, YES! That's the one!

That may help you find which your heart really wants.

Good luck!


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## James Schalch (Feb 22, 2008)

Just a quick question why was this dog bred at less than a year old with no title or hips cert posted. Or am I missing someting here from the pedigree posting?


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## Anne Flyzik (Jan 30, 2008)

Oops, totally missed the later posts on this thread. Sorry!

Where did you see that the dam is only a year old? (The sire is 10yo). Yikes, I missed that too.

I do know a couple of dogs, though, who have Good or Excellent hips but the owners had posted the pedigree on the database either before the results were in or else just posted quickly and meant to add details later and just never did, so it looks as though the hip cert. maybe doesn't exist.

Hope all is well with the new pup!


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## James Schalch (Feb 22, 2008)

I misread it was the sire the is less than a year old born 20 APR 2007, so no way to have a title or hips, which is almost as bad as the dam.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

James Schalch said:


> I misread it was the sire the is less than a year old born 20 APR 2007, so no way to have a title or hips, which is almost as bad as the dam.


James...where are you reading this? The sire, Iltis, was born in 1998 and is SchH3, IPO3, KkL1 with a-normal hips; the dam, Ginta, was also born in 1998 has her ZVV1 and a-normal hips as well.


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## James Schalch (Feb 22, 2008)

Sorry might have misread the Ped DB, looks like there is a male born 20 APR 2007, apologize, I was taken aback when I saw that.


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## Jack Martin (Feb 12, 2008)

I chose my most recent pup from my litter as you did.The two males I was choosing from had equal qualities across the board.Except my Archer wanted to be near me a bit more,retrieved to me from the get go,and most importantly his grips were full and hard.I really did not want to have to work grips.We train with the sibling now and I still fell like I made the right decision but the other guy claims he has the number 1 dog in the world.LOL 
*** At 11 months In all reality the grip thing has come to light somewhat.My pups grips are always full and calm while we have to work on the other pups grips some.However,the other Pup is showing much more civil aggresion and of course all of our tough dog people love him the most.My dog is more clear across the board for sport.My next litter should be all hard pups though.I am scared already.I need thicker ankles.


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

Did you say the dam was born in '98, so she was 10 when she had this litter?


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## Lee Hough (Mar 15, 2008)

That cross has been done quite a few times from what I remember - I would want to see what the pups from previous litters are like now and what they were like at this age. Should be a gorgeous pup either way!

Lee


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

Trish Campbell said:


> Did you say the dam was born in '98, so she was 10 when she had this litter?


yes, this litter wasn't exactly planned, Ginta was retired but Iltis thought otherwise...I certainly wasn't complaining though  



Lee Hough said:


> That cross has been done quite a few times from what I remember - I would want to see what the pups from previous litters are like now and what they were like at this age. Should be a gorgeous pup either way!
> 
> Lee



Yeah, I've stumbled across some pictures of siblings on the GSD pedigree database...I'm really happy with him so far :-D if I remember I will take some pictures this weekend and post some updates


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

"yes, this litter wasn't exactly planned, Ginta was retired but Iltis thought otherwise"

Guess so! 

Well, I look forward to seeing him at the trial


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

On the topic of "selecting a Schutzhund prospect". Does anyone on the board live in/near the Orlando area? I have a replacement pup that's due to be born this coming weekend. We are not going to be able to make the trip down to select our pup and would like to find someone knowledgable to look at the litter at about six weeks and give a recommendation.


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