# black shepherds



## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

I am curious. 

Are black german shepherds good working dogs. I been looking and looking at working kennels online and I don't see as many with solid black dogs in their pedigrees. ( I could be very wrong )

Also they all seem to have their own look to them, narrow chest, narrow nose ect.. could be wrong too:-\" 

I always see them as just family pets. I know my old neighbor had one that was beautiful, but was soooo shy and had problems with seizers.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

We had two of them in our old Schutzhund club. One especially was a fairly serious dog and worked well (I don't remember how high he titled in Schutzhund beyond a BH, but he has a VCD1 in AKC), though he seemed a bit hard/hard headed. He was pretty impressive to look at. The other was more physically what you described.


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

I think a lot of the difference in look is illusion due to their solid coat colour and the fact that it is well...black. It can play tricks on the eyes. I don't think colour has much of an effect on workability, though there is some scientific speculation as to colour in connection with temperament and personality. I however see solid or close to solids all the time. They're not all that rare imho. 

The best worker I know home is a solid black named Seicko (no idea how it's spelt pronounced Say-ko)


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## Daniel Cox (Apr 17, 2006)

The color gene that a dog carries has nothing to do with how well it is going to work. Look at the pedigree and forget about the color of the dog.


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

> I had the honor of working (3) solid blacks in my military and civilian police career. K9's (Lucifer), (****) and (Kanto). All were hard workers and accumilated a lot of honors over their careers.

> Phil


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I think there are those out there who breed blacks just to get the color and are doubling up on all kinds of recessives in the process. A lot of folks think black longcoats are "to die for" and I must admit they can be striking. 

It is one thing when it just happens, and another when it is intentional. I have seen some nice blacks.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

There are actually a alot of black working shepherds. Some that are highly titled. EXP. http://www.vandenheuvelk9.com/orry.html. That being said, I have a pure black one that is just a pet, and thinks he is a 100lb lap dog. Complete opposite of my working line one


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Black is rarer because the black gene is recessive. Sable is dominant and is the most common color for working shepherds.

I find color makes no difference to working ability.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

My TD had 2 solid blacks. There was nothing narrow on either of them. One was a czech dog and one was not (can't remember what he is). 

There was one solid black male in my GSD's litter and he is suppose to be a larg/strong impressive male with a big muzzle. 

Bomber is an exceptional looking male as well. 

http://www.gsd-kennel.de/13761.html

Julie


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## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

thanks for the info!


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

As has been said the solid colour makes them look similar, Pike was a famous black sport dog

I have a black female operational police dog that has numerous apprehensions to her name.. so that cant be that soft can they

Its like saying all malis are nervy ... cant judge a breed or strain of breed from a few examples


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm also of the belief that many of the black GSDs are just a bit finer boned on average. (not softer) 
Titus z P was an excellent exception. It could also be that many of them go back to W German lines instead of DDR or Czech. That would be an interesting thing to see. :-k 
Although it's are recessive, there are people breeding for JUST the black color but for the most part it has nothing to do with working ability.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

My dog Bentley was bred to a sable. There was six pups and four out of the six were solid black. None were as big boned as he but they were very nice looking dogs with enough bone. 4/6 he beat the odds.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

*You gave me a excuse to watch it again
Click > Ø MOVIE 
*


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

My bitch has 3 littermates who are police dogs , one is sable & one is black. By sure what the other brother is as it's with another force. 

All retain a good working ability. She was bred recently to a working Sable PD so it would be interesting to see what is produced if it's taken


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## Jack Krizman Jr (Dec 27, 2008)

todd pavlus said:


> There are actually a alot of black working shepherds. Some that are highly titled. EXP. http://www.vandenheuvelk9.com/orry.html. That being said, I have a pure black one that is just a pet, and thinks he is a 100lb lap dog. Complete opposite of my working line one


My Loki is from Orry, he is a Dark Black Sable (according to what Dari listed on his papers).

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/589832.html

He is only 17 weeks old

Here is one of my photobucket sights with some pics of him.

http://s547.photobucket.com/albums/hh444/JasperGsd9/

He is a little Hellion.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I'm also of the belief that many of the black GSDs are just a bit finer boned on average. (not softer)
> Titus z P was an excellent exception. It could also be that many of them go back to W German lines instead of DDR or Czech. That would be an interesting thing to see. :-k
> Although it's are recessive, there are people breeding for JUST the black color but for the most part it has nothing to do with working ability.


This one I once owned, was 2-2 on Titus. Not too fine boned for a female. We have one now from Orry, whose a very nice pup. But, I'm noticing a lot of tiny feet from him.


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## Nancy Rhynard (Nov 24, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> I'm also of the belief that many of the black GSDs are just a bit finer boned on average. (not softer)
> Titus z P was an excellent exception. It could also be that many of them go back to W German lines instead of DDR or Czech. That would be an interesting thing to see. :-k
> Although it's are recessive, there are people breeding for JUST the black color but for the most part it has nothing to do with working ability.


sorry the questioner was not able to see many substantial blacks. I had Titus z Pohranicni Straze as an old dog and he was quite the old east german type. I personally thought him a bit too short legged for his substance, otherwise a great working dog. I have some pics somewhere still if someone would like to see or they may be on my site. Have a few black dogs there and some not listed. I agree with the writer of the recessive gene being why we do not see as many. Another breed type for a west german dog was Pike von der Schafbachmuhle (sorry I can butcher German). The some czech dogs go back primarily to Gomo von Schiefferschloss who was a black sable and so carried a black gene. 

Rhynard


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## Ashley Pugh (Nov 9, 2007)

I have a solid black Czech bred GSD and I happen to think he works very well, but the Lyda boys can give their opinion since they take the hits from him.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/546177.html 

His pedigree, which needs a much better picture on it.


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## Nancy Rhynard (Nov 24, 2008)

well, had to check the website and Titus is still there, as a very young then very old dog. 
a few other blacks for those of you who want to see some with different type:

Dasty Anny Mer, not a "looker" but won the Czech Nationals only after he put his owner in the hospital, a very civil dog.
Cak, ok, was an alternate on the WUSV team in 2001 but never produced anything very strong. Good nerve though. 
then Pluto PS, a solid dog. I have a 3/4 brother to him as a stud dog for our police service dogs we produce that is not advertised. 

I don't have Pike on my site but had 3 of his offspring in the past. Pike was an exceptionally civil dog and often produced a dog that would not out. One of his sons, Condor, used to stand in NY and was a very nice male. 

ok, I think the lady with the horses gets to see a few blacks! 

have fun!

Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com


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## Jack Krizman Jr (Dec 27, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> This one I once owned, was 2-2 on Titus. Not too fine boned for a female. We have one now from Orry, whose a very nice pup. But, I'm noticing a lot of tiny feet from him.


Beautiful dog Daryl

LOL, the first thing people comment on Loki (besides his coat) is his paws, they are like bear cub paws, they are huge.

I guess he is the exception:mrgreen:


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Jack Krizman Jr said:


> My Loki is from Orry, he is a Dark Black Sable (according to what Dari listed on his papers).
> 
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/589832.html
> 
> ...


If Orry isn't black, then that is the darkest sable I have ever seen


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## Jack Krizman Jr (Dec 27, 2008)

todd pavlus said:


> If Orry isn't black, then that is the darkest sable I have ever seen


Todd, I am talking about Loki (his color), not Orry


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

Mike Scheiber said:


> *You gave me a excuse to watch it again
> Click > Ø MOVIE
> *



he is a cracking dog, glad you posted that


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

The black shepherd is just a color phase of the white one. Like the blue goose is to the snow!!!


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## Polliana Oliveira (Jan 8, 2009)

Nancy Rhynard said:


> well, had to check the website and Titus is still there, as a very young then very old dog.
> a few other blacks for those of you who want to see some with different type:
> 
> Dasty Anny Mer, not a "looker" but won the Czech Nationals only after he put his owner in the hospital, a very civil dog.
> ...


 Thanks Nancy, 
Dasty Anny Me is a "looker" to me.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Nancy Rhynard said:


> well, had to check the website and Titus is still there, as a very young then very old dog.
> a few other blacks for those of you who want to see some with different type:
> 
> Dasty Anny Mer, not a "looker" but won the Czech Nationals only after he put his owner in the hospital, a very civil dog.
> ...


Is that the same Cak that is owned by Van DenHueval


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I've known four from Cak, and probably disagree, but don't know what precisely is meant by "strong".


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## Nancy Rhynard (Nov 24, 2008)

Polliana, 

my apologies, I will never write again past 10 PM. Way too late for me.
on my website, black dog from 2001 Slovak WUSV alternate was Chester Betkin dvor. A very nice, substantial well bred dog but just did not produce a dog that could stand up to national level competition. 

Cak Pisenca Boure was sort of a "local" czech dog that did very well for his limited exposure. He is a good example of a great dog with an owner who did not have the backing to compete seriously. These dogs are now both deceased or should be. I imported a bitch bred to Cak in the mid 90's and a Titus daughter, Asia Al Zdor, bred to Chester in 2001. Asia's was one of the better Titus litters. A full littermate was with North Coast K9 and competed in Madison Wis. USA nationals. She was disqualified on the BITE and hold,er was that supposed to be a hold and bark? nice serious female. Hit the decoy dead center in the chest and it was not a tag. 

Glad you liked Dasty. He was not bred much because he was so socially aggressive. A real compliment to his trainer who successfully competed this dog. 

I will have pictures on my website of a few blacks I have for sale. Hope you stop to see them.


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