# How to choose a puppy



## sandra f. johnson (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm not looking to acquire a puppy but I was just curious about choosing one.
How does one tell which puppy in the litter would be better suited for personal protection and guarding? Would it be the more aggressive puppy, the more outgoing pup, the more social pup?
I know it surely wouldn't be the shy one or the submissive one. If I had to guess, it would be the dominant one.
I would imagine there are many people who pick a pup mostly because they are cute but when the dog grows into a young adult, all it wants to do is lay on the sofa and the pup's owner thought the dog would keep strangers away. There must be a way to know.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Lines...and then...luck...

People will tell you one thing or the other, but only someone who really knows the lines and how they develop can give you an accurate prediction of what the pups will turn out. 

If you find a breeder producing the kind of dog you want, or with the kind of lines that will get you want you want, and the breeder is fairly good at matching up, then hopefully the pups should all be fairly consistent in ability. That's wishful thinking though.

Know what they say...pups are a crapshoot.


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Lyn Chen said:


> Lines...and then...luck...
> 
> People will tell you one thing or the other, but only someone who really knows the lines and how they develop can give you an accurate prediction of what the pups will turn out.
> 
> ...


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I love your post here right up to the last sentence. Please dont be offended here. But, if all you say about a breeder is true. In that, a truly competent, ethical and experienced breeder is doing what he should with his or her genetics, then in my opinion the crap shoot is NOT the puppy, but YOU the puppy owner. Far too much is put upon the paws of this little pup. I think more owners and trainers should take more responsibility for the outcomes of their pups. If all pups were such a gamble, no one would be taking them.

Bryan


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## Eros Kopliku (Jan 30, 2008)

Sandra, since you are not in a rush, I would suggest that you buy Schutzhund: Theory and Training Methods; there is an entire chapter on how to select a working pup. Whether or not you intend to do Schutzhund, you'll find this book very helpful. I have read it twice in the past two years and still go back for references.

If you find a reputable breeder and be honest when conveying your expectations, you will likely end up with what you want. I had first pick for a working male, but much to my chagrin, I could not be there for the selection. The breeder placed all the pups and I am extremely happy with what I got. To my knowledge, my pup did turn out to be the strongest working male of the litter.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

It really depends on what you want in a pup. You mentioned personal protection and guarding. This sounds to me like a basic PP dog whose main function is as a house pet, but does some basic bitework training. As a breeder I'd place a stable/solid pup, but not the highest drive pup, with an owner who came to me and said that is what they were looking for. Despite what the potential owner probably thinks they want (usually the biggest, driviest, strongest temperamented pup in the litter LOL) they don't actually want to live with what they think they want. They are going to want a dog who isn't to difficult to live with, but can do some basic work. Stability is going to be the #1 trait they need, high drive isn't. 

Now if you came and said you wanted a dog for high level competition, then we'd be looking at a different set of traits. Well, the same set of traits, but ranked differently in order of importance and level of intensity needed.

If you are new to picking puppies, the best way to do it is to listen to the breeder, and if you want take someone with you who is a lot more experienced then you are. But hopefully you choose that breeder because you like what they produce and you have researched their reputation and concluded they are honest, experienced, etc. So trust them to help you pick the right pup from the litter, they know their pups better then anyone, since they have been there since day 1, and should be able to help match you up with the right one if you give them enough information about what you are looking for.


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## sandra f. johnson (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks all for your advise. My son is an armed security guard and although he isn't actively seeking a dog at the present time, he has mentioned that he would eventually like to have a dog that can go on patrol with him. My son works at night and does a lot of walking. The area he works in isn't the best. 
My son lives with me and my husband so the dog he chooses will live with all of us including my own 'pack'.
We have a male GSD but he's a big sweetie and is no good for this type of work.
I was thinking maybe a retired GSD who is still in good physical shape would enjoy going on patrol.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

sandra f. johnson said:


> I was thinking maybe a retired GSD who is still in good physical shape would enjoy going on patrol.


Maybe you should look at that retired PSD that was posted elsewhere on the board  Sounds like it might be a good fit.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Bryan Colletti said:


> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> I love your post here right up to the last sentence. Please dont be offended here. But, if all you say about a breeder is true. In that, a truly competent, ethical and experienced breeder is doing what he should with his or her genetics, then in my opinion the crap shoot is NOT the puppy, but YOU the puppy owner. Far too much is put upon the paws of this little pup. I think more owners and trainers should take more responsibility for the outcomes of their pups. If all pups were such a gamble, no one would be taking them.
> 
> Bryan


You're right, I didn't explain very well...they say pups are a crapshoot usually if the breeder doesn't know a dog's tail from his head. In the event of a good breeder, the variables decrease, but they're still there.

Naturally, you can have the best puppy in the world and screw him up bad...


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Lyn says the breeder, Bryan says the buyer, and I agree with both. The breeder is responsible for initially working with the proper genetics, and their intimate knowledge of the litter can help the purchaser make a sound decision for their lifestyle. But even the "sweetest" dog can have proper behavior for personal protection and guarding of property, surprising even the owner, as one customer wrote to me...



> On another note, we are finishing our basement. Elsie and the contractor have become close pals. One day he let himself in through the front door, Ian and I were in the back and Elsie realized that even though they were friends, Ian and I were not in the house and he could not enter. When Ian went into the house he saw her guarding the front door and our contractor trying to calm her down through a 2 inch opening in the doorway. All of the hair on her back was standing straight up and Ian has never heard her bark and growl so loudly. Once he got there and told her it was OK, she let her friend enter the house. Elsie is such an outgoing social butterfly I often wondered what would happen if someone broke into the house, well I feel much better that if someone was stupid enough to break into our home they would not get very far. The uncomfortable thing was that Logan was sticking his nose in the door crack and trying to get the door open and let the contractor in.


I've had many dogs who would not allow entry to a frequently known person, without the presence of me or family members. Socialization conducted on behalf of the puppy owner allows the dog to develop the ability to discern a "true threat", or even simply "uninvited guests". The social development stages are well into the time that the new owner has taken their pup into their home and lifestyle, and this period has strong influence on guarding and protecting behaviors.

A pup with a strong sense of self-assurance, coupled with "sharpness" would be my recommendation. In a 5 week old evaluation, a loud calamity created by a crashing metal bowl, popping garbage bag, running power-saw, vacuum, or some similar test of sound, would reveal good potential prospects. In the example below, one pup paused a bit, four hardly noticed, one ducked but quickly did a "180" to go check it out, and three instantly ran toward the sound without a thought. Those three should prove to be very "sharp" adults, by my estimate. So would the "red" pup, but would not be preferable as the more self-assured "none", "pink", and "purple" pups.










PLEASE NOTE!!: These are NOT the sorts of tests that prospective buyers should be conducting on the breeder's pups, but you might request the breeder to perform them for you.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Find a knowledable breeder or take an expierienced person with you to test the pups. 
The best advice I could give an inexpierienced person who thinks they want a working dog for PPD, etc is "Be careful what you wish for. You may get it." :wink:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Reach yer hand in and jest pull one out. If the underlying equipment isn't right, do'er again! ;-)


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> Lyn says the breeder, Bryan says the buyer, and I agree with both. The breeder is responsible for initially working with the proper genetics, and their intimate knowledge of the litter can help the purchaser make a sound decision for their lifestyle. But even the "sweetest" dog can have proper behavior for personal protection and guarding of property, surprising even the owner, as one customer wrote to me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
very interesting I do something similar and also at 5 weeks, i think 5 weeks is a critical point. When they are very raw. I am basically trying to "test" them and see recovery/ reaction. Im not quite as "organized" as you though lol.............very nicely done.........bet it comes in handy when they are adults to further evaluate.

t


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I evaluate at 6 and 7 weeks also, with a couple additional tests more appropriate after initial testing, and compare against previous scores to track progress. Evaluating when "they are very raw", prior to any training and conditioning is very telling, I think. But also the socialization period, upbringing and interactive life at their new homes should not be underestimated.


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

Find a reputable breeder who you feel comfortable with and develope a good working relationship. Look for one who has successfully produced what you are looking for. Get references from them, talk to the owners, talk to the training directors, people in the club, etc. Then tell the breeder exactly what you want, what your plan is for the dog. Then discuss your experience with dogs in regards to your skill level, training, etc. 

Hopefully you find a breeder who then selects a puppy with the proper drives and temperament for what you want. Then you continue what the breeder has started. You usually get out of a dog what you put into them. 

I do temperament tests on all the pups also. But honestly, I have no surprises..I've been with theses pups 24/7, you watch who's the pushiest puppy to eat, who is the first out of the box, then their hierarchy with one another, who's dominant, who's the follower. Watch prey drives, how they grip the towel, reactions to exposure to different surfaces, loud noises, etc. Thats what tells me about the puppy.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I agree that works fine during the litter's short period of time with the breeder. Though it may seem unnecessary recordkeeping, it has multiple purpose. The three "snapshots" help capture the 'moving' dynamics in the rate of their development. It ensures that the least "noticeable" pup has been evaluated, not just the good or bad ones. The overall reason for record keeping these details is long term, with multiple litters and various mates, it can get a bit fuzzier over the years. It can help track and analyze the smaller components of your greater successes in matchmaking, so you have a better opportunity of repeating them or refining them. There are a few other significant benefits, but it's not my intent to conform anyone. ;-)

Anyone who believes it's "just a crapshoot", tell me how that's workin' for ya. Going whichever way the wind blows has never satisfied me.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

If you have good genetics going in and all things are equal, I think that a very high number of puppies should be very similar. You will have 10%+/- very high and 10%+/- low (1 and 1). I know that with the Border Collies that I have bred over the years, all litter mates were too close to tell. The real big difference was the coat and color. Drives were all balanced.

Now with that said, I have a Bouvier des Flandres litter which is 2 1/2 weeks old. I see bigger differences in size and attitude with these guys. There are two males which are BIG, the other 4 mates are regular size. Still too soon to tell which one is top dawg! I also agree that around 4,5 or 6 weeks of age, you can test for some things, some you can train through, and you sometimes get a "nut" in the mix. \\/


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Trish Campbell said:


> Find a reputable breeder who you feel comfortable with and develope a good working relationship. Look for one who has successfully produced what you are looking for. Get references from them, talk to the owners, talk to the training directors, people in the club, etc. Then tell the breeder exactly what you want, what your plan is for the dog. Then discuss your experience with dogs in regards to your skill level, training, etc.
> 
> Hopefully you find a breeder who then selects a puppy with the proper drives and temperament for what you want. Then you continue what the breeder has started. You usually get out of a dog what you put into them.
> 
> I do temperament tests on all the pups also. But honestly, I have no surprises..I've been with theses pups 24/7, you watch who's the pushiest puppy to eat, who is the first out of the box, then their hierarchy with one another, who's dominant, who's the follower. Watch prey drives, how they grip the towel, reactions to exposure to different surfaces, loud noises, etc. Thats what tells me about the puppy.


Trish I do the same thing. 24/7 is the right call, you can see those puppies which want to explore and those that watch and follow.


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