# For Geoff Empey



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I told you I would post a couple of pictures Geoff. I guess it was to early for me because apparently I didn't hold the button half way down long enough for the camera to focus....but you will get the idea.

The first picture shows Jack, Palin, and the pup(behind Palin). I am a motivational trainer....just not the way others perceive motivation. Here is the scenario. I have the counter covered wi8th their daily raw chicken. The dogs are never in the house when the chicken is being prepared but I brought them in specially for this because they love their chicken. They will not go past that rug even if I conveniently drop a piece on the floor. The chicken is to motivate them to come in. It is not a reward. They will get the chicken even if they were to cross into the kitchen, this way they are not working for the chicken(reward). They were taught right off the bat, the kitchen is a "no go" zone when young. There is maybe 15 minutes of training between them all. The pup learned the kitchen is a "no go" zone the first day he was here. Takes maybe a correction for a day or to to reinforce it. I do give them an atta boy and a pat on the head when they and it means a lot to them considering the alternative which is never going to be a treat. Think about it....while an atta boy doesn't carry the weight of a treat usually, it carries a lot more weight than the correction they will get for going past that rug. The reason praise means so little to dogs today is because they have treats thrown at them continually. Let's be real, I'll take a Snickers any day as opposed to a slap in the mug. That is no different with praise, I will take the pat on the head rather than a slap in the mug also. Modern training methids don't believe in a slap in the mug. They would withhold the chicken for the infraction. The dog works for the reward at that point and praise now means nothing to them. Like I said, 15 minutes for all three dogs over a couple of days and I don't have to say crap to them again. The real imprtant part is they are not workinmg for the food, they are paying attention to me and what I want, not what they want. Of course this is a lot easier for me than it will be for many because I don't care how cute and cuddly they are as pups, they never go in the kitchen any time at any age. 











This picture shows my garbage sack which normally has pieces of chicken and any assortment of food in it. It is in the dogs comfort area. Same as the chicken, it is to motivate them to break the rules. At almost 12 weeks the pup goes around it as they all do. Doesn't matter what is in it. Motivational and clicker trainers say it isn't an important thing to them(same with countersurfing) It isn't worth the time it takes to train them off of something. The reality, it takes no time at all if you know how to do it......and none off it really requires being mean. This second picture also shows the stairway. Halfway up is the landing. The pup spent his first unsupervised night in the house last night. No pee accidents and he didn't get in the trash witch is sitting at the last step. Griff, the pup, spends 90% of his time outside with the dogs and he ios about totally housebroke. I will add also that he hasn't been inside a crate since his first night. He only had a couple of accidents in the house to begin with but rather than have him do that, he went outside to be house broke. Simple proccess and he didn't have to be watched 24 hrs a day this way. 









I am not a trainer. I don't really consider this to be training because it is so absolutely simple to teach even to a pup. In the end, these dogs work for me. They don't bite me, they behave in the house. When they get ansy, they go to the door and I let them out to go as crazy as they want.

I am not going to get into any more training debates. I put this up for Geoff.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

But the pictures are so blurry Don I can't see any saliva or hear the bell.  

I agree Don it's not training .. just manners. I think it is the base thing that everyone teaches at first. This all translates to not breaking the line in competition or forging during heeling, reward after a track. It all starts with simple manners around dinner time and goes from there. 

I've always had the mind set that anything and everything can be a training exercise. From Dinner as you pointed out, to going outside, engaging a hog whatever it's all in the handlers way of approaching it.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Geoff, second unsupervised night for the pup. I heard him at the door about two and let him out for a few. When he came back in, we played for a few minutes and then I went back upstairs to bed. The pup will be 3 mo the 28th of this mo.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Geoff, second unsupervised night for the pup. I heard him at the door about two and let him out for a few. When he came back in, we played for a few minutes and then I went back upstairs to bed. The pup will be 3 mo the 28th of this mo.


So what is the plan here Don? Do you have something invisioned for this pup? Companion or otherwise? Or is he a experiment for you, would he be a house/demo dog for your potential pup buyers?


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> So what is the plan here Don? Do you have something invisioned for this pup? Companion or otherwise? Or is he a experiment for you, would he be a house/demo dog for your potential pup buyers?


He is my supplier mostly....of new genes. Much of it is an experiment of sorts to see the differences in hunting lines and protection lines. While the differences are small at this point because pups are pups, I really want to see the differences as he gets older. I am sure many traits are going to be hard to see as he is being raised like I raise mine.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> He is my supplier mostly....of new genes. Much of it is an experiment of sorts to see the differences in hunting lines and protection lines. While the differences are small at this point because pups are pups, I really want to see the differences as he gets older. I am sure many traits are going to be hard to see as he is being raised like I raise mine.


Oh ok, but for what it is worth. I'm of the opinion that a good (overall) working dog for whatever discipline your pups background comes from, a lot of the traits that makes one a good hunter would make it a good SchH tracker for lack of a better comparison. It boils down more to how things get explained to the dog. The rest is genetically imprinted in basic instinct. 

I think you will be surprised that the traits won't be the night and day difference people would like to think it is, even if you raise it the exact same way as your other pups. Good (worker) genetics is just that, if you can see real tangible differences I'd be surprised. You should take some notes of your observations so you have some sort of record of the progress. I'd put a bet on that he'd be at the head or close to it with/of the pack on the tail of a hog, he might not be the kill dog but he'll be in harms way that's for sure.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

You are probably right Geoff. This is actially an important cross in the airedale world. East German dales probably have 50 years of line breeding behind them and this pups heritage is protection. There are a lot of III titles on the pedigree in DVG, IPO and Sch. This pup is the first that is being crossed into the only extensively line bred hunting line in the US. THis cross is being watched on both side of the pond...or should be. Be a real nice time for someone to come ond prove these dogs won't potect as a matter of fact.......because if they do ot will be a heck of a marriage between the two lines. LOL People don't realize how far I am sticking my neck out with the challenge from the other thread. LOL


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