# Welcome to Kanada - WTF?



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

You wouldnt believe it if it wasnt written down and admitted. 
http://www.therecord.com/news/local...after-daughter-draws-picture-of-gun-at-school

Again, what goes through the police's mind where they think they can do this type of shit?


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Christopher Jones said:


> You wouldnt believe it if it wasnt written down and admitted.
> http://www.therecord.com/news/local...after-daughter-draws-picture-of-gun-at-school
> 
> Again, what goes through the police's mind where they think they can do this type of shit?


Police weren't the only ones overreacting in that situation.


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## Lori Gallo (May 16, 2011)

Whoa....I'm not familiar with Canadian gun laws but what if the Dad had a legal weapon? Those bureaucrats would have a heart attack if they saw the Dad's at my local gun club. They even go shooting together for the fun of it.
I like this story much better.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us...02/25/dnt-oh-elderly-man-shoots-intruder.wews

Score one for the second amendment.


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## kerry engels (Nov 7, 2010)

Lori Gallo said:


> Whoa....I'm not familiar with Canadian gun laws but what if the Dad had a legal weapon? Those bureaucrats would have a heart attack if they saw the Dad's at my local gun club. They even go shooting together for the fun of it.
> I like this story much better.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us...02/25/dnt-oh-elderly-man-shoots-intruder.wews
> ...


 
I like your story much more also.


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## Cassandra Lane (Jul 2, 2010)

The Canadian Gov't does NOT want its citizens to protect themselves. Even in cases where the police are 20 minutes away. As evidenced by... 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01/20/man-faces-jail-after-protecting-home-from-masked-attackers/

This poor man who wanted to protect himself from *Molotov cocktails.

*I'm thinking of moving to the US, in a state that recognizes Castle Law. This shit would never have seen the light of a courtroom.


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Surprise my head does not fall off with all the shaking back and forth I do lately. RIP commonsense eh? ](*,)


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## scott zimmerman (Dec 7, 2009)

To me, it isn't the cops reaction that bothers me the most as much as it is ridiculous firearms laws and restrictions in countries such as Canada, UK, and Austrailia (and I guess you could throw California in that mix too!). Not ever having lived in Canada or knowing Canada law, I cannot comment on the actions of the Police. I can say however that if it happened just as that article reported it, it wouldn't fly here in the States! As others said, God Bless the 2nd!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Over reaction by LE or LE that is obligated by law to follow over the top, ef'd up laws of the country?! 
The child made the drawing and also commented about a hand gun in the house. The school made a complaint and FCS said it needed to look further into it. 
Not that I agree with it but till the law is legally changed...it's the law! 
Without knowing the actual laws it would be useless for me to comment on how it was handled.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Wow! Was this all only because a child *drew a picture* of a gun? Was the child interviewed and asked about her and siblings alleged access to the firearm? Or was it *just* the picture that did it?

Scary.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Thomas H. Elliott said:


> Surprise my head does not fall off with all the shaking back and forth I do lately. RIP commonsense eh? ](*,)


+1:-\"


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

No big mystery. What is/was/did happen is in a different country.

While we may shake our collective heads over the seemingly idiocy, the fact remains; it's a different country with different values and with their own laws as they see fit to handle the issues they feel needs to be addressed.

This country has enough problems without involving ourselves in someone elses problems and how they've chosen to deal with them.
You think Canada or California is restrictive? Try living in/under a real martial law state/country for awhile. And report back, then let us know what you've figured out inre to Canada or California.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

yupp.. Welcome to Kanada comrades! The new Soviet state! God knows we're all incapable of wiping our own asses without filling a form paying 50% ass wipe tax on our toilet paper and getting the government's approval. Oh but it's all worth it! We get free health care.. for most things.. and we only have to wait months to get it.


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

What's wrong with Canadians, there murder rate is just above the UK's at 1.81 per 100,000 how are they ever to beat the US rate of 5 per 100,000 if they try to address gun crime at this low level. In order to triple shootings at educational premises, work places, and to ensure over 300 Law Enforcement Officers get slain every year they have to ease up.

Most Americans don't own guns or even want to own guns, I respect the view of those on this forum, I carry a Glock and a Colt M4 every day of my working life, but the US is so violent, and the criminals so merciless you are slaves to your guns, you couldn't give them up if you all wanted too because there are so many firearms in the hands of ruthless criminals; its actually tragic when you think about it objectively.

I don't shake my head at other countries who don't share my views but I do try and look objectively at the reasons behind it, and how they arrived down this road.

The Police in this case reacted to the school and social services, exactly the same way if the little girl had drawn a Penis on the paper, that said you can investigate and review a situation more proportionately before taking the final action of arrest.

There might be a little more to this story that the media has published, but it makes for good headlines, it might even be of interest to Mitt Romney listening to him on our many free US News Channels.

Having been fortunate to drive through 35 of your states in the last 20yrs with my wife, met some amazing lovely people at all levels of society, I genuinely hope they find a way to make your country safer in the future so the good and the young don't keep dying at nearly 3 times the rate of most other western countries. 

Mark


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Mark Horne said:


> What's wrong with Canadians, there murder rate is just above the UK's at 1.81 per 100,000 how are they ever to beat the US rate of 5 per 100,000 if they try to address gun crime at this low level. In order to triple shootings at educational premises, work places, and to ensure over 300 Law Enforcement Officers get slain every year they have to ease up.
> 
> Most Americans don't own guns or even want to own guns, I respect the view of those on this forum, I carry a Glock and a Colt M4 every day of my working life, but the US is so violent, and the criminals so merciless you are slaves to your guns, you couldn't give them up if you all wanted too because there are so many firearms in the hands of ruthless criminals; its actually tragic when you think about it objectively.
> 
> ...


Really? Comparing a gun to a penis? Cos a little girl is going to come in contact with images of penis in the same way she would see a gun. Yeah, all those cop shows on tv where they walking around with the wangs out as well as their guns. And all those movies, same thing and lets not forget those cartoons kids watch. 
No wonder the UK is listed as one of the biggest police states in the world. 
And dont go down the gun control vs crime path, you will loose that every day. How did your murder and crime rate go when you banned hand guns?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/1440764.stm


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## scott zimmerman (Dec 7, 2009)

The real question is whether the US is so violent because we have guns or do we use guns to express our violence? While on the surface Mark's argument makes sense, when you thing of the number of people who use guns on a daily basis legally for the purposes of sport, recreation shoooting, and hunting, the number of folks that fall victim to "gun crime" is extremely low. Combine that with the fact that many if not most of those guns involved were obtained illegally and/or used by those who couldn't legally own the guns, those numbers fall drastically. Likee Chris' link in the previous post points out (though dated in 2001), stricter gun control simply removes the firearms from those with legit purposes/citizens while doing nothing to take them from the criminals. If you get a DUI, you lose your license. Are you so niave to think the suspect will then just say, "OK, I won't drive then." No. I honestly wish that banning all guns would remove all violence from our society. The REALITY is that is not true. It would be like trying to control traffic related deaths by banning automobiles. I have not had the pleasure (yet) of even visiting the UK, but I hope to go one day. Therefore, I won't pretend to think I know anything about the country as far as statistics, laws, etc. and it is too late for me to research. But I had a friend that worked for the Met that told me that while shootings did eventually drop in the UK after passing severe gun control measures, stabbings increased dramatically. I did read an article about 6-8 months ago that some part of England (can't remember where at the moment) was considering outlawing glass pub glasses b/c they were having increased incidents of stabbings with them once broken. I couldn't imagine having a pint in plastic. My point is whether or not it is the actual guns that cause the violence, or whether the violence is there regardless. I will admit though, we Americans have a habit of being lazy, and the gun can be a lazy way of committing violence.


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

I gave the Canadian Government my guns...a Dutchie takes less time to load and fire!!! (probably has better accuracy rate too!! LMAO) 8-[


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## kerry engels (Nov 7, 2010)

Cassandra Lane said:


> The Canadian Gov't does NOT want its citizens to protect themselves. Even in cases where the police are 20 minutes away. As evidenced by...
> 
> http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01/20/man-faces-jail-after-protecting-home-from-masked-attackers/
> 
> ...


 
This is nuts! What do they expect this guy to do? The criminals were casually walking around his home cussing and throwing fire bombs.And he has the video to prove it, do they charge people in Canada on a regular basis for protecting themselves and there property?


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## Cassandra Lane (Jul 2, 2010)

Thomas H. Elliott said:


> I gave the Canadian Government my guns...a Dutchie takes less time to load and fire!!! (probably has better accuracy rate too!! LMAO) 8-[


Only problem with that is here they will destroy your Dutchie. The gov't protects the criminals - not the family being burglarized. ](*,)


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## Cassandra Lane (Jul 2, 2010)

kerry engels said:


> This is nuts! What do they expect this guy to do? The criminals were casually walking around his home cussing and throwing fire bombs.And he has the video to prove it, do they charge people in Canada on a regular basis for protecting themselves and there property?


Everyday. It is a sad state of affairs. Like I said, the gov't does NOT want their citizens to protect themselves or their property. They want sheeple. The gov't would have preferred that poor man burn in the house (along with his dogs) then take the situation in his own hands.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

You know the Kanada haters and the rest of you Cop haters can go ***** yourselfs. You obviously have no clue and just have ignorant dripping pieholes. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/03/01/bc-schoenborn-report-watchdog.html


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

I lived in Canada for many years. I had a friend who participated in target shooting competitions. She had a friend on the police force who offered to critique my shooting abilities. We met and he was very nice and I did great! I seriously thought about getting a handgun and taking part in these competitions until I realized what it amounted to in Canada!! OMG!!! You HAVE to belong to a gun club, you have to get a FAC "Firearms Aquisition Certificate" you are not allowed to keep the handgun in your home , it has to be left at the club. If you are going to a shoot you have to get police permission to transport the gun...and on and on. It wasn't worth it to this yankee!


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Denise King said:


> I lived in Canada for many years. I had a friend who participated in target shooting competitions. She had a friend on the police force who offered to critique my shooting abilities. We met and he was very nice and I did great! I seriously thought about getting a handgun and taking part in these competitions until I realized what it amounted to in Canada!! OMG!!! You HAVE to belong to a gun club, you have to get a FAC "Firearms Aquisition Certificate" you are not allowed to keep the handgun in your home , it has to be left at the club. If you are going to a shoot you have to get police permission to transport the gun...and on and on. It wasn't worth it to this yankee!


Canadian gun laws are worse than ours (australia) To own a handgun here you have to be a member of a gun club but you can keep it at home.
And the funny thing is ask any military guy and they will tell you a sniper with a bolt action rifle is far more effective at creating issues than a
handgun or ak is.


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## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

Denise,
In Canada you do need an FAC but you can also keep your handgun in your residence,properly secured,and you can travel to and from the gun range with your gun.You do not need police permission, and you don't need to keep it at the gun club.
Not sure where you got that info but it is wrong.
Mike


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Cassandra Lane said:


> [/U][/I][/B]I'm thinking of moving to the US, in a state that recognizes Castle Law. This shit would never have seen the light of a courtroom.


Cassandra,

Colorado has the "make my day law". Tell me about your training and dog and I'll see if I can get you in ;-)


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Kanada, gun ownership is not guaranteed by law. You can own guns , hand guns have been registered since 1934. Kanada has 7400000 fire arms 1200000 are hand guns.
2010 population of Kanada 34,126,200-----number of homicides 554 total, 32% are shootings or 177 people,
31% stabbings or 172 people, and the remaining are beatings 205 people.
28 accidental shootings so only 149 intended people .
The victims 83% knew thier killer, 40% were acquaintances , 34% family, 9% criminal relationship.
17% strangers or 94 people out of 34,126,200 people.

USA 2010 stats population 308,745,538 this is 9 times Kanaduh population .
Aprox 222,000,000 firearms numbers were up to 270,000,000 so I went with the FBI stats.
76,000,000 are handguns. Murders 12,996 -- 67.5% were firearms or 8772 people of these 68.5% were by handgun or 6009 people.
53% knew thier killer and 24.8% killed by family member
2010 justifiable homocides 665 people, felons killed by LEO's 387, and by citizens 278 out of a population of 308,745,538 .

World ranking gun ownership USA #1, Canada #13
World ranking Homocide USA #1
Finland #2 wtf ? bad vodka ?
New Zealand #3
Czech Republic #4
Canada #5
Scotland #6


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Wow and FARK, 


They need to mandate pot and ecstasy with every packet of live ammunition to chill all those gun toters out.


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

personally I don't think the number of users would change if drugs became legal, but most of the criminal violence would , for the last 12 years or so there has been drug related turf wars in Canada from biker wars back east , out west we have turf wars with the Angels, the big circle ( jerks) gang , and red Scorpions.
Scorpions are on trial right now.At the Trial Mommy and Daddy scorpion said they didn't know why thier boy Jamie would come to breakfast with a bullet proof vest on ! You would think parent would take a bigger intrest in thier kids, and kids it's just bad P R not to tell your parents your expecting a drive bye this month.
Local news grow-op bust 800 plants , 60 firearms,and a hash lab, three dudes ages 49,53 and 56 all arrested and released with a promise to appear](*,)


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Not sure of the exact figures but a big portion of people in aussie jails are on drug related crime, solve the drug problem and it looks like you solve the majority of crime.

What happened to the Dutch experiment?? Users increase with drug laws on pot?? Violent crime increase?


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

The statistics for gun control just do not add up. Mexico has a total handgun ban and it is one of the deadlist places on the planet. In Switzerland most households have a fully auto assault rife supplied free by the government and the person gets to keep it for ever once they have done their national service. Cant get more liberal gun laws than that. Homicide rate in Switzerland = around 0.8 per 100000
In Australia full-auto are banned outright and semi auto is basically banned as its so hard to get one its not worth bothering. Homicide rate in Australia = around 1.35 per 100000. Now the standard of living in Australia is the equal of Switzerland, and in some ways a better standard of living. In a recent worldwide most livable cities survey,Australia had four of their six capital cities in the top ten in the world. 
French gun laws are more open than Australia with every house allowed a handgun for home defence and also full autos are in private ownerships. Until 1996 you could own 3 full auto assualt rifles per person in France. 
France has a lower homicide rate than Australia at around 1.09 per 100000.






Hans Akerbakk said:


> Kanada, gun ownership is not guaranteed by law. You can own guns , hand guns have been registered since 1934. Kanada has 7400000 fire arms 1200000 are hand guns.
> 2010 population of Kanada 34,126,200-----number of homicides 554 total, 32% are shootings or 177 people,
> 31% stabbings or 172 people, and the remaining are beatings 205 people.
> 28 accidental shootings so only 149 intended people .
> ...


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

The Dutch government has announced that it does not have enough prisoners to fill its prisons, and as a result is closing down 8 prisons. Currently, the Netherlands has the capacity for 14,000 prisoners, but only has 12,000 people to fill those jails. The shutting down of these prisons are being attributed to an ever decreasing crime rate in the Netherlands.


http://www.lifemeanshealth.com/heal...-8-prisons-due-to-plummeting-crime-rates.html



Peter Cavallaro said:


> Not sure of the exact figures but a big portion of people in aussie jails are on drug related crime, solve the drug problem and it looks like you solve the majority of crime.
> 
> What happened to the Dutch experiment?? Users increase with drug laws on pot?? Violent crime increase?


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Rounding out the top ten for homocides

North Ireland #7
England #8
Aussie are #9
Japan #10

Like you say solve the drug problem ,I would think that Canadian numbers would drop in half ,and if you check out Geoff's link, our only concern would be if your new brother in-law looked like that guy.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> The Dutch government has announced that it does not have enough prisoners to fill its prisons, and as a result is closing down 8 prisons. Currently, the Netherlands has the capacity for 14,000 prisoners, but only has 12,000 people to fill those jails. The shutting down of these prisons are being attributed to an ever decreasing crime rate in the Netherlands.
> 
> 
> http://www.lifemeanshealth.com/heal...-8-prisons-due-to-plummeting-crime-rates.html


 There is the end of the KNPV program, obsolete, lol.



Err Chris, so what is the status of pot laws in SA, I heard decriminalised????

I heard you can find pot growing on student res window panes at ANU in canberra??


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Personal use is decriminalised. If you grow one outdoor plant than that is deemed personal as well. If you get caught with a few ounces or one plant outdoor then you get a on the spot fine, same as a typical speeding fine. Outside of that it is still to the courts.



Peter Cavallaro said:


> Err Chris, so what is the status of pot laws in SA, I heard decriminalised????
> 
> I heard you can find pot growing on student res window panes at ANU in canberra??


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Where do you get your stats from? The top 20 countries are all South American and African countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate





Hans Akerbakk said:


> Rounding out the top ten for homocides
> 
> North Ireland #7
> England #8
> ...


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> Personal use is decriminalised. If you grow one outdoor plant than that is deemed personal as well. If you get caught with a few ounces or one plant outdoor then you get a on the spot fine, same as a typical speeding fine. Outside of that it is still to the courts.



So has it caused hordes of drug crazed zombies to walk the streets??

Anyways dont try it in QLD, when the police stopic beating you, you wont be able to spell pot. Not joking.


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

I think that top ten was Wiki ,but I was all over the map hard to find just gun stats.

thats why I went with stats that broke down the homocides ,Canada was police report, USA was FBI.
As far as top ten they are all over the place .
I don't like the % out of 100,000 scale when I looked at Canada they colour coded the provines and territories
from most dangerous to least based on homocides per 100,000, the Yukon was second most dangerous with 1 homocide, Ontario was safe with 184 homocides wich is 33% of all homocides in Canada for 2010.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what is a ****-CIDE????? lol....

Homicide people....homIcide.....


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Sorry, Joby I spell as often as we use guns up here.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Mike Di Rago said:


> Denise,
> In Canada you do need an FAC but you can also keep your handgun in your residence,properly secured,and you can travel to and from the gun range with your gun.You do not need police permission, and you don't need to keep it at the gun club.
> Not sure where you got that info but it is wrong.
> Mike


Mike, she's not entirely wrong. I used to be a police officer not too far from where this happened. In CDA there is no longer a FAC, it's called a PAL (possession acquisition licence). And you do need to submit information to the police IF you are transporting certain kinds of restricted/prohibited (not sure of the wording and I'm not going into the Firearms Act to look it up) weapons prior to the transport.

As for my take on this situation. There had to have been more going on behind the scenes. Police, here in Ontario, do not just go out and arrest people for poss'n of a firearm w/out corroborating evidence (If they did, hello... call me please, I'll be more than happy to represent you in a lovely negligence suit once I'm done law school in 2 months). That being said, the school officials have a POSTIIVE duty to inform the police as per the Child and Family Service Act. The analogy to the penis was a good one. It requires further looking into, but before going off half cocked (OHHHHHH DOUBLE PUN... like that??? LOL) why not get the father in for questioning. There is NEVER a rush to arrest somebody, and all the LEO's here know this, unless there is exigent circumstances. Which in this case, I highly doubt there was. there was also no evidence of search warrant, which I suspect, he just said go take a look for yourselves. Also Canada has a pretty strict weapons registry for handguns, not that that means anything, but it also would have been checked.

In the end, the school officials sound like they went a little off the deep end, but that is what the laws have done. You SHALL report, leaves them with no question, especially when you have an overzealous school official. It would have been the police officer's job to take the complaint from there and to ascertain what is actually going off.

I would have never taken it to the extent these officer's did, but hey that's just me playing armchair QB. As I said prior, there must have been something else going on to necessitate the immediate arrest. But let's all not forget how astute the media is. They have no idea what the difference is between arrest and detention. I would suggest that he was probably detained rather than being arrested. 

When I was on the job, ANYBODY arrested for drugs/weapons was strip searched prior to being lodged in cells. So the search is good... the arrest may be bad, if it was an actual arrest and not a detention.

Either way, crappy situation.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> So has it caused hordes of drug crazed zombies to walk the streets??
> 
> 
> > No but pizza deliveries went up by 30%.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Roflmao!!!!!!!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Gun control means having a tight grouping!


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## Don Dool (Jan 30, 2012)

Thats was one of the reasons I got out of being on the job !! Their were days I wondered if I had woke up on the wrong side of the fence sometimes....Were we worst than the real bad guys at times...


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Im surprised so many people are surprised at this. I know NJ has a zero tolerance policy on guns in school. I don’t know if it is nationwide. And this don’t mean kids cant bring guns to school. They cant even say the word. 
If kids are drawing a picture of the revolutionary war and there is a gun or rifle in the picture they get sent to the shrink, detention and the parents have to come in. No cowboys with guns. No pictures with guns, no talking about guns. 
 No joking, they cant even pretend to make a gun with their fingers and go “bang”, same problems happen. When I go to the Halloween parade all the kids dressed as soldiers have empty holsters and no rifle. It is really silly but its just the way the government wants it. You know for our “own” protection.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

http://www.ursenbach.net/govwatcher/articles/zerotolerance.asp


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Im surprised so many people are surprised at this. I know NJ has a zero tolerance policy on guns in school. I don’t know if it is nationwide. And this don’t mean kids cant bring guns to school. They cant even say the word.
> If kids are drawing a picture of the revolutionary war and there is a gun or rifle in the picture they get sent to the shrink, detention and the parents have to come in. No cowboys with guns. No pictures with guns, no talking about guns.
> No joking, they cant even pretend to make a gun with their fingers and go “bang”, same problems happen. When I go to the Halloween parade all the kids dressed as soldiers have empty holsters and no rifle. It is really silly but its just the way the government wants it. You know for our “own” protection.


Shame too. When I was in high school, most boys had a shotgun in their P/U. Hunting was a given after school, when in season. Every boy carried a pocket knife. 

DFrost


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

We had comps with aerosol combustion fired spud guns!! and winchester supplied all students with heavily discounted 12 gauge shotgun rounds for the student trap shooting contest.


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

In Alberta? I was told by the LEO who took me out shooting at the Police firing range that you were not allowed to keep a handgun at your residence and did need a permit to transport to and from competitions? Mind you, this was 15 years ago or more.
Denise


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> http://www.ursenbach.net/govwatcher/articles/zerotolerance.asp


 Sounds like freedom and liberty to me.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Don Dool said:


> Thats was one of the reasons I got out of being on the job !! Their were days I wondered if I had woke up on the wrong side of the fence sometimes....Were we worst than the real bad guys at times...


 That reminds me of an interview I saw on a documentry about American prisons. There was a prisoner who used to cause issues for the guards and so they wanted to get some revenge. A group of them went into his cell in the middle of the night and bashed him real bad. An hour later they came back and beat him some more. The next morning he was found dead as he had died of his injuries during the night. The guards then fabricated a story of him attacking them with a shank and planted a knife on him. They then claimed self defence. They convinced all their work mates to give false statments and to lie about what happened. One of the guards who knew about what happened and helped cover it up was asked why all the guards would do this? Her reply was "because we are the good guys"


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