# make money taking your working dog for a walk !



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

I've been thinking about this for some time, so here goes.....

Imo anyone with an ounce of dog sense between their ears can and should be able to safely walk their dog in crowded public places ON lead. If you dog is titled, it should be an even easier day. But just like on the competition fields, the true measurement of control in OB is whether this can be done OFF lead and with distractions.

Many on here have reached high levels of obedience and control in IPO, SchH, PSA and other Ring sports, and I truly DO respect those levels of accomplishment a LOT. Right now i have a MUCH lower trained house dog that took almost a year to train to NOT lunge and bite people and only bite stuff I tell him to grip. 
- But he has ZERO problems walking thru arcades filled with all ages of idiots with NO dog sense, including people being dragged along desperately trying to follow their dog. But when someone wants to meet him, I can sit him and allow the person up close to check him out, touch him, and feed him a treat. And when i'm sitting at an outside coffee table and a stranger shows up and is interested to meet him, and i've made them sit down at my table, I can tell him to lay his head on their leg and wait for them to give him a treat. Petting is considered, but it's 50-50 whether I allow it or not. 

But with that said, even tho I would like to, and maybe he could handle it most of the time, he will NEVER be off lead in public. So in terms of MY level of OB control over THIS dog, I still consider it VERY low level even though I consider it a major training accomplishment 

What always impresses me about handlers is the CONTROL they have over their dog.....both ON the field and OFF; with working dogs or pets. sometimes I get the impression that for a lot of working dog people, this applies only ON the field.

**so i'll put my money where my mouth is **
i'll be the first WDF lister that I know of who will PAY to view your vid of you walking your titled dog and interacting in a crowded public place 

1. what I would like to see some are vids of a TITLED dog from any of the "frequent posters", OFF lead, doing what i described above in a crowded public area. Walking thru the crowds with an occasional stranger meet, then go over to an outside table to sit down with your dog while you have a leisurely cup of coffee or whatever, and deal with a stranger who would like to meet your dog and have your dog interact with them in the way I described. 
***note : by "titled", i mean titled in a BITE sport .... SAR, therapy service dogs, agility, comp OB, or dock divers, etc., need not apply 

- of course this would probably be boring to all those who are much more interested in the traditional clips of working dogs engaging sleeves and bite suits, and canine crocs staying on a bite while being tossed around, but it would also impress me a LOT to see this same type of dog in a real world public environment, off lead, and still under handler control, around people who are NOT club members and don't know dogs

I don't think i've ever seen a vid like this since i joined this forum, but if anyone cares to step up, you have at least one interested viewer, and if this would be interesting to any lurkers, feel free to add your "me too"  
*** btw, rural country towns would not fit my category of busy public areas. I'm interested in dogs in a real city, crowded shopping area environment, not the "everybody knows everybody" towns, or taking a stroll down a back road, etc

- we can't take dogs into stores here, but if you can and want to go for it.

2. So if you can verify your dog IS titled, and go thru the paces as i have described above, i'll gladly pay you 75 bucks just to walk your dog around on camera. That should be enuff to entice someone you know to walk along with you and hold their Iphone. All i need is an address and i'll send it registered mail from Japan on my nickel  ... or paypal it if that's what you would prefer
- if you're a cheater and try to set up the meets with people the dog knows, go for it if you think you can get away with it  .... but i doubt you can pull that off, regardless of how you prep it .... dogs CANNOT lie, and i'm a pretty good judge of recognizing when a dog meets a stranger for the first time 
- a two min clip won't cut it either; too easy to set that up...anyone who has walked their dog should understand why 
- at least a five minute session, since it will also involve chilling out at a table somewhere

Seems pretty easy to me, and I don't need to see a perfect trial score OB ... points won't be deducted  .... just keep em on your hip and have fun walking with your dog next to you and in a down at your table ... in fact, the more your dog checks out the people the better i like it .... but if you charge thru at an elevated pace like you're running a gauntlet, don't bother posting it 

3. I'll spring for at least the first two vids that get posted here, and maybe throw in a tip if it's extra cool and you add some extras ... like a down in motion  if you need further clarification fire away, but i hope i've been pretty clear on what i'd like to see. 
- If you wanna post why it is a stoopid idea, by all means do, but i think most of those reasons have already been posted here b4 

4. btw, you all know who the "usual posters" are, but this is open to any and all lurkers too !! just please introduce yourself a bit and verify your dog's title first

5. btw, this is not a "call out". Just something i'd like to see because I enjoy watching working dogs under control in the real world as much as on a trial field. 

I really AM interested in seeing this and expect to learn a bit in the process

..... and it might even benefit other members with working dogs and challenge them to get better control of their dogs 

no time limit ... if you need to prep and practice for this, fine
and i know it is hard to get a camera holder to go with you sometimes 

if you post one, PM me so I don't miss your thread !


----------



## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

I would love to participate in this with my young dog... I should be able to get something filmed tomorrow morning... Not sure about being near any cafés though as dogs tend to be prohibited for health reasons but we can find a public seat to chill at for a while....

Only thing is we have no titles and no way of getting any because the only bite sport here is SchH and I am not allowed to participate because I work a street dog >_< I can however provide videos of his bitework as well, I'll even let someone else set a reasonable scenario that I can then get on video... Nothing too complicated or difficult though - just something that is likely to happen in real life and I'll show my dog can deal with that as well as be social when off-duty too... Can use a muzzle and/or hidden sleeve but no easy access to a suit...

Edit: PS not in it for the money... Just want to do it for something cool to do!


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

I dont have any "titled" dogs but I do have dogs that are certified PSDs does that count?

like Jay I dont need the money ... but hey if it will help you or someone else out Im up for it ... I assure the dogs are ... I wont be able to do it today Im almost sure but this weekend I should have the opportunity to get out with some dogs ... not sure its fair only because I do this with dogs all the time lol ...


----------



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm interested in this too, not cos I don't believe they can do it but just cos I am interested in seeing how cool peoples dogs and training is.
Bit limiting though containing it to bite sport titled dogs though, obviously you have your reasons. Loads of people out there doing bitework that just plain don't have any interest in sports and titles.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

in case it isn't obvious, the money thing is mostly to help motivate a helper to tag along with you and catch the drill on video. uploading is a piece of cake. finding a "camera holder" is often a pita. at least it is for me. i even have to bribe my wife, and most of my customers don't want to post their vids public on youtube

over here, that will buy a pizza, a few big macs or a cheap steak ... or 40 min of eye candy at my favorite lounge 
maybe even a round of coco locos ??


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i really think you need someone to shoot a decent vid. i've tried with a gopro by myself and it was sucky.

- i explained the money angle

- i excluded a few types of working dogs. I don't know policies for PSD's but we don't allow the public to interact w/ mwd's and i assumed PSD's were in a similar category. i know some PD's have PSD's that are well behaved enuff for public demos, but always suspected those were single purpose sniffers rather than patrol dogs  at least that's how it happens over here in Japan.

i tried to explain as best i could what i wanted to see
- known members w/ their dog titled in bitework, or as i added, for a lurker who hasn't posted that type of info
- off lead
- crowded public place
- walkin around and than chilling at a public table with people walking by. THAT is because if you are doing that and have a half ass decent looking dog, behaving itself, you WILL get clueless people who stop and inquire about your dog. for some dogs that can be a challenge

if the vids come, fine; if they don't; fine too


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

How about you posting a video of YOUR dog doing what you describe? You have been on this forum a long time, made a bunch of claims, but never post a video. Hell I would even take the footage that you claim to have taken on your gopro. Show us what you want by example.


----------



## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

Rick, for my own dog, what would you like to see in terms of bitework? As I said above there is no way I can get a title in this country but I have 4 protection trained dogs here, that I at least used to work among the public just about daily until my work decided to banish me to a paddock over political BS... 

one dog would never bite a person in anger so he doesn't count, one dog had way too much pressure and compulsion from others when younger so he is antisocial and will not allow strangers to touch him, my old boy who has had multiple live bites is very social but has pretty bad off lead obedience so I would not be able to do as you have asked with him (though I will happily film him on leash if you like)... The 4th dog is the closest I have come to the best of both worlds so far, he is still untested in a real life shit fight but I have every confidence in him, he has nice obedience and is also quite social... So I would like to show him off... 

So at the end of that little ramble - for those of us with bite trained dogs who are untitled and for whatever reason unable to be titled, what would you like to see in the way of bitework, so that we can go "here is my dog, he will commit to a human and take a reasonable amount of pressure"?


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> How about you posting a video of YOUR dog doing what you describe? You have been on this forum a long time, made a bunch of claims, but never post a video. Hell I would even take the footage that you claim to have taken on your gopro. Show us what you want by example.


This is important so we know exactly what you're looking for, also so you can't change the parameters down the line...


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> This is important so we know exactly what you're looking for, also so you can't change the parameters down the line...


Exactly! :mrgreen:


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Let me be the mean bitch that you all know and say that this topic is not WDF material and should be removed immediately.

Why? I do not like to see members of the WDF being turned into personal whores for 75$ If we need a pimp I am sure we can find one in our local area, there is no need what so ever to have them on our forum, paying the members to do tricks at a persons leasure is not what this forum is about! 

I am very sorry, Rick. I do not want to be mean or pissy or attack you but this topic is a crock of shit and to pay members to do tricks for you? Get the fk out of here! Not what this forum is about. You could have made this topic without waving around cash infront of people and enticing them to play for you at your whim... 

I for one am thouroughly disgusted....


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Let me be the mean bitch that you all know and say that this topic is not WDF material and should be removed immediately.
> 
> Why? I do not like to see members of the WDF being turned into personal whores for 75$ If we need a pimp I am sure we can find one in our local area, there is no need what so ever to have them on our forum, paying the members to do tricks at a persons leasure is not what this forum is about!
> 
> ...


I never took you for a mean bitch .... just someone who says what they think ... I guess i didnt see it the way you do.. (could be Im all F*&^%$ too) ... seemed like a fun thing to do ... not to put words in Ricks mouth ,,, but I think the money part was more for fun than anything. Hell I could be wrong too!


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

are toys allowable?

Pretty sure Dom might be a member here, here is Donovan's Scratch in Times Square. (toy included).

PSA titled..

should I let him know that he can collect 75$ in case he missed this?

or does this not qualify..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHEL2-c-Y2E


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> are toys allowable?
> 
> Pretty sure Dom might be a member here, here is Donovan's Scratch in Times Square. (toy included).
> 
> ...


he made need the 75 bucks for bail ,,, he tends to be on the wrong end of animal cruelty cases and the like ... never know


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Brian Anderson said:


> he made need the 75 bucks for bail ,,, he tends to be on the wrong end of animal cruelty cases and the like ... never know


New cases? thought that was all wrapped up...

I was thinking more for leash law violations....


----------



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Joby Becker said:


> are toys allowable?
> 
> Pretty sure Dom might be a member here, here is Donovan's Scratch in Times Square. (toy included).
> 
> ...


didn't watch it all but what I did watch was cool


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> New cases? thought that was all wrapped up...
> 
> I was thinking more for leash law violations....


none that I know of ... one is to many IMO...


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

hey Brian,

I am not a huge fan of Doms or anything. I do not know the details of his legal troubles and dont really care...

that being said.

I know lots of people that have had animal cruelty charges, and many more that could have...and others that should have...well respected people..people on this board.

AC took a friend's dog for not providing medical/vet care for a small cut on its foot, that occurred at the same time animal control showed up and knocked on door and the dog fired up in its kennel. They took another dog for not having FOOD in the kennel when they were there...

anyone who keeps a dog in a crate without water in it for even a minute, can face Animal Cruelty charges in most places....

anyhow back to the topic at hand....

most cities around here have leash laws, I think most Americans would be breaking the law to fulfill the requirements of this video challenge... has that factor been thought of?


----------



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Let me be the mean bitch that you all know and say that this topic is not WDF material and should be removed immediately.
> 
> Why? *I do not like to see members of the WDF being turned into personal whores for 75$* If we need a pimp I am sure we can find one in our local area, there is no need what so ever to have them on our forum, paying the members to do tricks at a persons leasure is not what this forum is about!
> 
> ...


I sorta just blanked that bit. I just wanna see the cool dogs and training


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> hey Brian,
> 
> I am not a huge fan of Doms or anything. I do not know the details of his legal troubles and dont really care...
> 
> ...


Joby I have been in these dogs for near the 30 year mark (some of those years were lean times you know what I mean)... never had an animal cruelty charge... none of the people I train with have ever had one... yeah there are some silly charges to be sure ... his wasnt ... now back to our regularly scheduled programming


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

***MODS***
this thread has already gone off track and lost any value to me and has turned me off BIG time...and that takes a lot to do 

i'm disappointed that there have been no mod comments, and i'm not gonna waste my time replying to some of what i consider personal attacks tossed at me

anyway, i started the thread so i should be able to request that it be removed, correct ?
- delete, lock or do whatever you mods do and remove my posting privileges just in case i get that "watching a train wreck" feeling sometime in the distant future 

i'm outa here .... 
- the WDF has some narrow minded people that i don't need to waste my time fighting with or responding to
- I got MUCH better ways to occupy my time 

don't worry, the door won't hit me on the way out 

anyone with pending PM's, I will follow up. you know who you are and have my email address


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

You must be joking, Rick. There have been no personal attacks. I think it's pretty funny that you accuse us of being narrow minded, when it seems as if you are the one with the very black and white rules of what is right and what is wrong, proper dog etiquette, position, etc., and according to you, most of what the rest of us do is wrong, but no matter. As for this little contest, I don't give a shit about the money, in fact I think you should keep your money, I just want to see a video of exactly what you do with your dogs that you want us to duplicate....seems only fair.


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

No chance of that happening Sue. I think that rick is only keyboard trainer. But I think thatabout the majority of the regulars here.


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

This forum would take on a whole different level of seriousness if folks had to post a video or two of thier dogs.


----------



## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> This forum would take on a whole different level of seriousness if folks had to post a video or two of thier dogs.


A video should replace the silly introduction thread. Doesn't matter what venue.


----------



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

jamie lind said:


> A video should replace the silly introduction thread. Doesn't matter what venue.


That's sorta an awesome idea except for people that are just starting out and may not even have a dog.
I love posting vids on here and I love watching other peoples vids even more!


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I used to have video but I don't anymore, it went away when my old computer crashed.


----------



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Oh that sucks 
Make more!


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> I used to have video but I don't anymore, it went away when my old computer crashed.


I made the aweful mistake of NOT backing up my last phone and ... well you know the rest of the story .. LOL ... I got smart with this phone and have it backed up to the cloud. I lost nearly three years of video and photos ... that sucks!


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

rick smith said:


> ***MODS***
> this thread has already gone off track and lost any value to me and has turned me off BIG time...and that takes a lot to do
> 
> i'm disappointed that there have been no mod comments, and i'm not gonna waste my time replying to some of what i consider personal attacks tossed at me
> ...


Dang Rick ya dont have to leave out mad man... You have to remember that theres people from all over the planet on here and everyone has a little different way of presenting themselves ... I know my posts can come off kinda hard sometimes (I dont do it on purpose) ... go get you a soak in some salt water toughen up your skin a little and come on back ... we still got some shit to discuss!


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I know a number of handlers of dogs that train nationally and internationally that cannot or won't take their dogs into public venues.

Is this a problem?

Most of these dggs live very active lives with tracking ( very often neglected), obedience and protection.

Many of these would be neutral if lead through a crowded area but,is it necessary?

Watch dogs leaving the trial ring. They are under control just as if they would be under control in a crowded area.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I know a number of handlers of dogs that train nationally and internationally that cannot or won't take their dogs into public venues.
> 
> Is this a problem?
> 
> ...


My personal dog is also my buddy and pet ... so therefore he goes with me a lot ... he enjoys it and I enjoy it....I have seen more than a few trial dogs that did great on the field and totally went to hell in another enviro. and thats all cool .. not say they all do but it happens and that owner might like it like that. But for me I like to enjoy my dog outside "work" as much or more than I do when he is "working". In order for me to do that then I have to give him the tools he needs to be able to cope and get along with whatever we might be doing. To each their own!


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Gillian said
"Watch dogs leaving the trial ring. They are under control just as if they would be under control in a crowded area."


Excellent example!
In AKC obedience there are often 100-200 plus entrants and it's often held in VERY crowded buildings where the dogs and people are often shoulder to shoulder getting through the crowd. 
The people watching arer sitting right outside the ring often times with little kids standing there eating hot dogs, candy, whatever. 
Same thing outdoors. Huge crowds and unruly kids. 
More distractions then ANY bite field I've ever been on and all just a crowed sniff away.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Gillian said
> "Watch dogs leaving the trial ring. They are under control just as if they would be under control in a crowded area."
> 
> 
> ...


not to mention many of those dogs are impressive as all get out... I went down to the local AKC OB groups place about a month ago to visit with them about some nose work they are wanting to undertake. While I was there they were working dogs and I was highly impressed with the level of control and snap those dogs showed. Got me all worked up ... I came home jumped out and grabbed a dog and went to work lol ... Im pretty sure Id have to really work at it to stay in there with some of those folks..


----------



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

I have hours and hours of video. Working, in public, etc. I've posted them before.


----------



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Hunter Allred said:


> I have hours and hours of video. Working, in public, etc. I've posted them before.


Dude, those vids combined with the bitework ones are one of the main reasons I am looking towards GSD's! I like


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Matt Vandart said:


> Dude, those vids combined with the bitework ones are one of the main reasons I am looking towards GSD's! I like


Matt a good solid GSD is just hard to beat man ....


----------



## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Brian Anderson said:


> But for me I like to enjoy my dog outside "work" as much or more than I do when he is "working".



This. 

My Malinois puppy is a breeze in public. But he wasn't a super badass drivey strong tactical uber puppy. He's just a really nice puppy. Most dogs that are great on the field also must be great off the field, because most people enjoy them as pets as much as competition dogs.

I also live in the city. So there's really no other option but to be nice in public because we're typically sharing our training space with soccer players and picnickers.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Brian Anderson said:


> not to mention many of those dogs are impressive as all get out... I went down to the local AKC OB groups place about a month ago to visit with them about some nose work they are wanting to undertake. While I was there they were working dogs and I was highly impressed with the level of control and snap those dogs showed. Got me all worked up ... I came home jumped out and grabbed a dog and went to work lol ... Im pretty sure Id have to really work at it to stay in there with some of those folks..



It still boils down to some of those dogs and in any dog venue aren't worth a crap outside that competion ring. 
I learned that years ago when I was competing in AKC OB on a regular basis. 
It's all a matter of choice but the well mannered, everyday truck dog is first and foremost what I want in my dogs. I really did enjoy the competion though. 
It's also much more anal in point scoring compared to Schutzhund.


----------

