# Bring your dog anywhere!



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

http://www.servicedogsamerica.org/certification/index.html


----------



## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Are you kidding me? I hope that is a joke


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

scary huh?


----------



## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Very scary. No actual testing required just "check yes" and pay 250 bucks to take a dog into restaurants?! People already take illmannered pets into stores and public places they shouldn't by saying the dog is a service animal, with a vest and a card those people will try to rule the earth with Fifi and Lulu.


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

does anyone know what it actually takes to have a certified service animal? My brother-in-law sent me that link and asked me if that's all he had to do to be bring his dog to the bar. THE BAR!!! dummy.

NO WAY!!! He has a high drive field lab. I tried to work with it the few times I was visiting but it was a very ill-mannered dog and I ended up doing compulsion with him just to get him to not rush the door.


----------



## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

from ADA.gov


<LI type=disc>[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Businesses may ask if an animal is a service animal or ask what tasks the animal has been trained to perform, but cannot require special ID cards for the animal or ask about the person's disability.

[/FONT]<LI type=disc>[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be charged extra fees, isolated from other patrons, or treated less favorably than other patrons. However, if a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may be charged for damage caused by his or her service animal.

[/FONT]<LI type=disc>[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the animal is out of control and the animal's owner does not take effective action to control it (for example, a dog that barks repeatedly during a movie) or (2) the animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.

[/FONT]<LI type=disc>[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]In these cases, the business should give the person with the disability the option to obtain goods and services without having the animal on the premises.
[/FONT]<LI type=disc>[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Businesses that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]A business is not required to provide care or food for a service animal or provide a special location for it to relieve itself.
[/FONT]

<LI type=disc>[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Allergies and fear of animals are generally not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people with service animals.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Violators of the ADA can be required to pay money damages and penalties.
[/FONT]


----------



## Lisa Maze (Mar 30, 2007)

You do not have to do anything to "certify" your dog but you do have to have a "disability". I don't think alcoholism counts though 

Lisa


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> Very scary. No actual testing required just "check yes" and pay 250 bucks to take a dog into restaurants?! People already take illmannered pets into stores and public places they shouldn't by saying the dog is a service animal, with a vest and a card those people will try to rule the earth with Fifi and Lulu.


We lived in Germany from when I was about 6 months old to about 4 years old and my father would tell us how well-behaved dogs were allowed in many restaurants because they are expected to behave. My brother is in the Army and is stationed out in Germany at the moment and confirmed this. I wish it was like that here in the US. No one ever takes personal responsibility for their misbehaving children or animals and no one can ever say something without fear of *gasp* offending someone. :roll:


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

There are plenty of people with "emotional support dogs" because petting the dog calms them down. I think, technically, you are supposed to have a doctors note but they can't ask for it......

Yes, it is scary - no certification requirements, no consideration for balancing the severity of the need with the rights of other people.

I take great offense at someone subjecting an allergic person or a scared person to their dog, if they don't really need a service animal, thus abusing the system.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I take great offense at someone subjecting an allergic person or a scared person to their dog, if they don't really need a service animal, thus abusing the system.


I don't disagree that it could certainly be abusing the system, but there's not too many public places that are completely free of potential environmental allergens. Dander on people's clothes from home could be enough, if the allergy was bad enough.


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

An emotional support dog is not considered a service dog and is not covered by the ADA. However, airlines usually honor emotional support dogs.

What these peopls forget is that no dog - not even a service dog has access rights. The people get the access rights. There are situations in which a service dog can be "ejected" from a business or public place.

There are laws prohibiting against fake service dogs, but very hard to enforce:

1) A person is not required to carry proof of disability. In fact, a person needs to only believe s/he is disabled and have sufficient eveidence to support his/her case in court of law. The only person who can determine wheterh or not a person is "disabled" is a judge in a court case. However, receiving governement disability benefits is a nearly fool-proof way to define "disabled." 

2) Secondly, there are owner-trained service dogs. Many trainers don't understand the work that service dogs do and are leary of assisting these disabled individuals. Those that do work with service dog frequently charge exorbitant prices. OWner-trained service dogs are often poorly trained - performing tasks at home, but with poor manners in public.

3) Many service dogs work in the home without passing a "Public Access Standard" test. Common test items include running the dog's tail over with a shopping cart and putting the dog in a down-stay in a food aisle in a grocery store, having kids run up and pet the dog. The dog can't move or respond to the children and then must recall to the handler who is still out of sight. A service dog does not have to pass these type of tests or be certified, but it is unwise to take a service dog that does not meet these criteria into a public place.

4) Another place that enforcing laws about service animals gets dicey is with psychiatric service dogs. These dogs mitigate invisible mental disabilities and their physical effects on the body. Some pyschiatric disabilities come and go in "flares" and the person is perfectly competent inbetween, but completely disabled during a flare. Some of these people, particularly those with owner-trained service dog, believe it is necessary for the "bond" to bring the dog with them even when they are not needing the assistance.

* I put the word "bond" in quotation because of the erroneous belief that service dog work soley because of a bond with the owner without any training.


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Is that website/certification for real???

OMG. Unbelievable.

I trained mine like a service dog because I like the challenge and she does too - but actually passing her off as one would be a huge disservice to all the real, working, service dogs out there.


----------



## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

> SDA recognizes that every person
> in America may have some form of disability.


yuppers ~ my disability is that I am addicted to dogs and cannot leave home without at least one...his mere presence is the task he performs...

and the cape that you get with the certification says "Ask to pet me, I'm friendly"


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

from the website:

*Your Indentification Package:*

Your identification materials will be mailed USPS Priority Mail within 5 days. Materials include:

a dog vest
*Service dog patches (we do not sew patches to vest) *
Personalized Service Dog Certificate
Wallet card
*All for $249 (+ S/H) *
*"Ask To Pet Me" patch is an additional $10 *
***
WOW!! What does that stuff cost retail? Maybe $24.95 for the dog vest and another 3 bucks for the patches that they just throw in the envelope? 

If I weren't such a stright shooter, I'd consider running a business like that...what is that a 1000% mark up? Crazy!


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Although I'm a great supporter of "real" service dogs, this country (USA) isn't ready for the furbaby invasion into eating establishments, etc. The ill mannered bassids will be fighting and crapping all over the place. 
Toss em all in a dog park and let em eat one another. 
 Did I just say all that with my outloud voice?  :grin:


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Bob,

For $100 I could get you and your dog certified to let your dog run in a dog park without a leash. And for an additional $49.95 I'll throw in a 24ft retractable to help you control your dog if it gets in a fight.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

You couldn't give ME a $100 to go to a dog park. I even quit going for walks in the park because of all the frickin furbaby people that want there furbabies to play with the "nice big doggies". 
Don't get me started on that crap! This is a working dog forum. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Anna Kasho said:


> I trained mine like a service dog because I like the challenge and she does too - but actually passing her off as one would be a huge disservice to all the real, working, service dogs out there.


Which begs the question .. What is a real, working, service dog?

I'm sure everybody has a view on what a disability is as well. No matter if it is physical or mental. 

I'm mobility impaired from a couple of issues the big ones ... Asthma, Arthritis. On a good day I can walk miles, other days 20 feet is a issue. Then my joints can lock and put me in a tailspin while I'm at the grocery store because of the hard floors. I've literally have had to use a grocery cart for support to get back to the car. 

I have an accessable parking permit. Every day I get people who challenge me because I'm a youngish strapping 45 year old lad. There is a lot of unseen circumstance, but yet people just assume you are a _faker S.O.B. little old lady parking spot thief_ .. [-X Drives me a little batty really. 

I know that there is a push up here to legislate into law rules for service dogs as well as proper testing and certification of said animals for particular disabilities. 

I tried to get training for my Malinois to be an assistance dog for me. Mostly for mobility issues and the hurdles trying to get the specialized training make it really counterproductive. All the agencies up here that train service dogs always want you to take one of their own dogs and the wait time can be upwards of 2 years or more. (I need help now) Then they will only certify a dog that they have trained even though the dog may pass the certification process. To train your own service dog is not unheard of. But it is the certification of said animal that is the area that is iffy, up here at least. 

I'd love to spend $249 to get my dog in the door at least. By the time the management figures it out it is not a certified government document. My dog picked up that can of peas I dropped which I can't bend to get, and hopefully I'll have had my dinner or watched my movie without having to worry about falling down the stairs, or fall getting up out of a chair.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> I have an accessable parking permit. Every day I get people who challenge me because I'm a youngish strapping 45 year old lad. There is a lot of unseen circumstance, but yet people just assume you are a _faker S.O.B. little old lady parking spot thief_ .. [-X Drives me a little batty really.


 
I know exactly what you mean. The blue haired brigade can be down right brutal at times!


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Which begs the question .. What is a real, working, service dog?


To me, a "real working service dog" does something you are not able to do without the dog. And before you ask, NO I have no clue who would evaluate that, and how to go about it.:sad: 

I was talking about MY dog - I bet she could certify for real (hm, not sure about running her tail over with a shopping cart though) and she enjoys doing these things with me. But I don't *need* her to pick up my dropped keys and coins, or to hit a button for crossing the street. So to me, everything she does is for fun and not in a real working capacity.

I bet there would be some real hysterics though, if whoever you asked about the cert. find out your mal is bitework trained. Being the vicious mean killer "policedog" that she is, of course. LOL


----------



## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> You couldn't give ME a $100 to go to a dog park. I even quit going for walks in the park because of all the frickin furbaby people that want there furbabies to play with the "nice big doggies".
> Don't get me started on that crap! This is a working dog forum. :lol: :lol: :lol:


I let mine kill a few little dogs every time we go. The people eventually start avoiding you.


just kidding, but I bet I'm not the only one who's thought it.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Although I'm a great supporter of "real" service dogs, this country (USA) isn't ready for the furbaby invasion into eating establishments, etc. The ill mannered bassids will be fighting and crapping all over the place.
> Toss em all in a dog park and let em eat one another.
> Did I just say all that with my outloud voice?  :grin:


 
Oh my! My FUFU dogs are hurt...their self esteem is crushed, ruined for life, never to be the same again. The thought of being gobbled up by the big, bad Danes, Shepherds, and other blood letting breeds of society....oooooooooh!:-({|=


----------



## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

I actually didn't see what the problem was, WHEN I began to read the "Qualify my dog" and all it's requirements. THEN, I see at the very bottom _"I verify that my dog complies with the above guidelines, By checking this box, you personally assure Service Dogs America that your dog can fulfill most of the above criteria. Proceed to Step Two - Payment"_
*WTF?!!*

There isn't ONE test to make sure you're telling the truth? Has anyone sent these yahoos an email? Cuz I am.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Anna Kasho said:


> To me, a "real working service dog" does something you are not able to do without the dog. And before you ask, NO I have no clue who would evaluate that, and how to go about it.:sad:
> 
> I was talking about MY dog - I bet she could certify for real (hm, not sure about running her tail over with a shopping cart though) and she enjoys doing these things with me. But I don't *need* her to pick up my dropped keys and coins, or to hit a button for crossing the street. So to me, everything she does is for fun and not in a real working capacity.



That is why we have someone offering certification without any real testing for $249!!! There really is no legislation or if there is it is so grey people can interpret it any way they like. For better or worse.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Anna Kasho said:


> I bet there would be some real hysterics though, if whoever you asked about the cert. find out your mal is bitework trained. Being the vicious mean killer "policedog" that she is, of course. LOL


Yeah not only can she pick up my cane, she can bite the waiter for bad service!!


> No Tip for you!! ATTACK!!!


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Alex Corral said:


> I actually didn't see what the problem was, WHEN I began to read the "Qualify my dog" and all it's requirements. THEN, I see at the very bottom _"I verify that my dog complies with the above guidelines, By checking this box, you personally assure Service Dogs America that your dog can fulfill most of the above criteria. Proceed to Step Two - Payment"_
> *WTF?!!*
> 
> There isn't ONE test to make sure you're telling the truth? Has anyone sent these yahoos an email? Cuz I am.


A test to make sure it's the truth??? Exactly what kind of a test would you propose??? Unbelievable and really insensitive to boot.

I dont know what people are up in arms over. This company provides vests and IDs so peoples service dogs will be easily recognized. Oh how awful. Service dogs don't have to wear any special collars, capes or IDs for that matter, so what is the issue here? The federal government doesn't require proof, why should this company require proof?


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

While you ar at it, be sure to send Leerburg an "email" too, since they sell capes and will attach patches without making people take a test too.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> A test to make sure it's the truth??? Exactly what kind of a test would you propose??? Unbelievable and really insensitive to boot.
> 
> I dont know what people are up in arms over. This company provides vests and IDs so peoples service dogs will be easily recognized. Oh how awful. Service dogs don't have to wear any special collars, capes or IDs for that matter, so what is the issue here? The federal government doesn't require proof, why should this company require proof?


Goes back to me and my _accessable parking permit_ bad enough that you *are* disabled not that I enjoy having to use a accessable permit. 

I'd love to be able to jump out of trees and carry big buckets of water 30 miles, but I can't. To have to justify to the peanut gallery time and time again .. sure is tiring.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

exactly. I feel the same.


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I see both sides actually. 

Wonder why they do not require proof of passing a service dog training and CGC in order to obtain that stuff.


----------



## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

Carol Boche said:


> I see both sides actually.
> 
> Wonder why they do not require proof of passing a service dog training and CGC in order to obtain that stuff.


As far as I know, service dogs don't ever need to have any official certifications. To require it would be limiting as not everyone has access to certifying venues. There are organizations that offer a public access test, which can help if anyone takes issue with your dog being brought into a business, but isn't required.

My problem with this site is that it's a scam, and it's preying on people who have disabilities. People who don't know the laws and think they need some sort of certification and believe that this will suffice (if it was necessary to defend the dog's presence with certification, this would never hold up).


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> I see both sides actually.
> 
> Wonder why they do not require proof of passing a service dog training and CGC in order to obtain that stuff.


What other side?


A persons disability is a private matter. It is against the law to ask someone what they need a service dog for or why they need a service dog or what their disability is.


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> What other side?
> 
> 
> A persons disability is a private matter. It is against the law to ask someone what they need a service dog for or why they need a service dog or what their disability is.



Oh crap, sorry....I was not paying attention to the disability part...so I have no comment about that....it is private and that I totally agree with that.

What I was talking was the whole "being able to order your dogs certs off the internet without anyone that is qualified to see if the dog can actually perform the requirememnts" part....I am really sorry...


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Accroding to ferdal law, a dog does not have to pass a service dog training course or have a CGC in order to be considered a service dog. There are many invisible disabilites and it's really no ones business what the dog does or what the disability is. A good example is a seizure alert dog, but there are many more examples, such as panic disorder. These people are able to have so much more freedom because of these dogs, but it's demoralizing to have to explain why they need a dog to people who are so worried about assholes who might abuse the system.


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Accroding to ferdal law, a dog does not have to pass a service dog training course or have a CGC in order to be considered a service dog. There are many invisible disabilites and it's really no ones business what the dog does or what the disability is. A good example is a seizure alert dog, but there are many more examples.


Okay, okay I give up:smile: ....I misunderstood this whole thread I think....


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> Okay, okay I give up:smile: ....I misunderstood this whole thread I think....


 
You didn't misunderstand Carol... the intent was OMG you can spend $250 and then bring your dog anywhere. I didn't know a thing about service animals until this thread and now, for me, this thread is OMG, I could spend $15 on vest and $3 on patch and bring my dog anywhere. 

I'm embarassed to say that one of my relatives has an arseholish intent with wanting to spend $250 just so he can bring his dog to the bar instead of leaving early to let him out. It's a ridiculous notion and I'm saddened that there are not more regulations for things like this.


----------



## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> I'm embarassed to say that one of my relatives has an arseholish intent with wanting to spend $250 just so he can bring his dog to the bar instead of leaving early to let him out. It's a ridiculous notion and I'm saddened that there are not more regulations for things like this.


He needs to find a different bar - some do allow dogs, and will even give your dog a bowl of water and a biscuit.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> You didn't misunderstand Carol... the intent was OMG you can spend $250 and then bring your dog anywhere. I didn't know a thing about service animals until this thread and now, for me, this thread is OMG, I could spend $15 on vest and $3 on patch and bring my dog anywhere.
> 
> I'm embarassed to say that one of my relatives has an arseholish intent with wanting to spend $250 just so he can bring his dog to the bar instead of leaving early to let him out. It's a ridiculous notion and I'm saddened that there are not more regulations for things like this.


Exactly ... it is open to interpretation for better or worse. Does it need some sort of legislation? Obviously it does .. but not at the expense of people that really need it. More for the abuse of your relative and people like that.

As for your relative spending $249 so he can have a drinking partner. Why bother? He can get a cape or a vest for $15 bucks elsewhere and be a moron on the cheap. More money for booze .. :---)


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I think where I misunderstood was where the thread turned into a discussion about people and their disabilities being private. I agree with that 100%, I really do. 

I don't agree with scamming them (or anyone) out of money. 

I don't know that I understand the whole website. I am taking my time to re read it, but it looks like anyone can buy the kit for any dog right now to me.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> Exactly ... it is open to interpretation for better or worse. Does it need some sort of legislation? Obviously it does .. but not at the expense of people that really need it. More for the abuse of your relative and people like that.
> 
> As for your relative spending $249 so he can have a drinking partner. Why bother? He can get a cape or a vest for $15 bucks elsewhere and be a moron on the cheap. More money for booze .. :---)


Yeah but it's so much funnier and they look so much dumber when idiots like this guy pay out their nose for it


----------



## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> A test to make sure it's the truth??? Exactly what kind of a test would you propose??? Unbelievable and really insensitive to boot.
> 
> I dont know what people are up in arms over. This company provides vests and IDs so peoples service dogs will be easily recognized. Oh how awful. Service dogs don't have to wear any special collars, capes or IDs for that matter, so what is the issue here? The federal government doesn't require proof, why should this company require proof?


Susan, I'm not saying dogs should or should not need a costume do to their job. There are all sorts of service dogs that help their owner, no matter what the dissability. Which is no business of the public to know. My beef with this company is the 10 commands they ask you to "personally assure" _most_ can be done. Even a CGC requires a test and it still doesn't allow you to take your dog anywhere. Maybe these guys will catch on to that, and start selling their own version of CGC certificates and patches.

If they are gona sell this stuff, just sell it. Don't add requirements they can't check, and don't advertise it as a way to take your dog anywhere. Perfect example: _"Meet Wrinkle, a home-trained service dog since 2004. Her small size makes her unobtrusive while traveling and she can carry her owner's medication in her vest pocket". _ Now which would be easier, bring a dog to carry my medication or, put the medication in my pocket/purse? :-k


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sorry Alex, your last post confuses me even more. I took offense to your statement:

"There isn't ONE test to make sure you're telling the truth? Has anyone sent these yahoos an email? Cuz I am." 

If I misunderstood then I'm glad because it sounded to me like you wanted people who order this stuff to somehow prove their dogs were service dogs before they were sold this stuff. You will have to forgive me if I'm a little testy about this, it gets old having to justify handicapped parking spots, etc..


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Alex: I do agree it's pretty dumb. Hopefully with the test and the cost, the only people this "kit" will take advantage of are those who themselves are trying to take advantage of the system.


----------

