# Mal and gun shyness!



## Nabe Hosaka (Dec 3, 2008)

I have seen some belgian malinois with sound sensitivity problem, like gun shot, is it really normal for the breed? how do you introduce gun shot to puppy or young adult?


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

I used to leave the radio on for my pup when I was out of the house. Once he was older I would blast a Gunfire video, they're all over youtube. I'd start them slow and build them up as they mature.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

I wouldn't say it is the "breed" of mal, I have 5 of my own, and we have raised 2 litters of puppies- we started the puppies out very young-5 weeks old, being placed in a pen on by the training field, so they got used to hearing gun fire- actually my dogs hear gun fire, or clatter sticks, and they know it is time to rumble, the show is about to begin, and become the great crazy mals they are. but this is just my experience...Mo


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

we have 5 Mals, and we raised 2 litters of pups, we started them out very young approx. 5 weeks of age, placing them in a pen by the training field, with older pups or young dogs, if they enjoy the bite work, just before they are given a bite, we would have someone off field initially fire a gun, and overtime get closer and closer, first working with a clatter stick, a penny jug, other noise makers, before getting to the gun-but so the noise became the dogs "marker" of the fun is about to start...my dogs hear a clatter stick or gunfire they become the "crazy mals" they are....and know they are ready to rumble...Mo
I edited my last post, didn't read your question correctly the first time.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

I agree with what others have posted. The earlier the better. Ones I have seen with gun problems were older with limited exposure or a bad experience in training.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

They either have it or they don't in my experience. However, Keith Jobe showed me a good exercise to minimize any problems. Not like they will tell you.

You put two dogs out about 30 meters apart, the decoy agitates, and runs away. When he fires the gun you both run forward, but the new dog gets to run down and bite.

The idea here is to just take off running when the gun goes off like a starter pistol. The next time the other dog gets to bite, and the new dog gets to go halfway before you slow him down to a crawl.

Do this a couple of times and then you can add the gun to start, and at the halfway point. Eventually, if the dog is not seeming to have some sort of problem, you fire the gun on the bite.

I say eventually, but most dogs get this stuff right away, and do not care about the noise, as much as they get all pumped up from the other dog getting to go.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We introduce gunfire from a minimum of 100 yards, while the dog is engaged in some sort of activity. Ob, bite work, confidence course, anything that is keeping the dog occupied. The proper response to gunfire, in my business, is no response. As training continues, it's brought closer and used in all training sequences. 

DFrost


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm more familiar with David's training (dog neutral to gunfire). I also would think that for Mondio (as with SchH sport) you wouldn't want the dog to key up at the sound of gunfire. Wouldn't that cause problems with the long down, if shots or pops or whatever go off..? Jeff, I'm picturing the Braveheart-themed trial, where I saw that the dog had to hold position while a stuffed animal was being whipped by a SchH training whip. 

For FR, allowing gunshots to prepare the dog to attack is more understandable (unless crossing over to Mondio or other surprise scenario sports, which exploit this type of potential weakness). But I'm just planning to train and play in the future, so I appreciate learning different methods from you experienced ringers.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

My dog never flinched, and the goose beat down the week before was much more brutal.

Of course, none of that helped at the trial were dipshit the dog decided to **** me off on pretty much every exercise.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I started my present GSD by playing fetch with the kong about 100 yards behind my son and friends while they were shooting trap. He was 12 wks old. 
Kept tossing it in the direction of the shooting and watched for reactions (I would have backed up).
No reaction and it wasn't long before we were within 10-15 ft behind them. No problems!
I also believe it can be as much about genetics as it is a learning situation.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

See, this is what I don't understand as well._ Why _do we teach the dogs to fire up and go into 'bite mode' at the sound of the whip or gun, but then expect them to ignore it during the obedience routine??! #-oThat is the only time any such sound is used in a trial. 

I just don't get it. ](*,)


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Yep. It can also be a problem if you ever decide to bring your dog into the show ring.
They do gunfire for the older dogs. :-\"

Julie


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

I attempted a BH where the dog was not quite ready. He broke his down to go get the person with the gun... sounds too much like a whip crack.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

That must have been some time back. There is no gunfire in the BH anymore.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> That must have been some time back. There is no gunfire in the BH anymore.


Time flies... been about 10 years.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

_"......That is the only time any such sound is used in a trial._ "

It depends what you are training for- gunfire is not used in the OB portions of all venues, and even though we use gunfire to amp up our dogs- we work on our obedience also- A lot...yes,it does make the OB harder to keep your dog in a position when they are wanting to go with the sound of gunfire- but again that is why you train,train train,and down means down and stay means stay....they don't take off, until you say it is ok, even if they are about to have a seizure to get there... and on trial day...well you just hope it works.... because they know it is trial day too.....but the original question had to do with "shyness" of the gunfire- so this is one way we would definately work on the problem of shyness.


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## Nabe Hosaka (Dec 3, 2008)

Follow up question, how to fix an older dog with a gun fire avoidance, i understand that proper introduction of gun fire to a puppy is one of the best way, how about for an older dogs? are there ways on how to fix them?


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Nabe Hosaka said:


> Follow up question, how to fix an older dog with a gun fire avoidance, i understand that proper introduction of gun fire to a puppy is one of the best way, how about for an older dogs? are there ways on how to fix them?


At any age, I take them out in the desert hunting jackrabbits (or some other game). The dog normally has so much fun that it quickly loses fear of the gun shots. Use many different calibers for a variety of noise levels and different people shooting near & far from the dog (never shooting toward the dog). 

Just be careful not to shoot the dog... unless this doesn't work :-\". JK, kinda. If this fear is not easily overcome, the dog is POS.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Nabe Hosaka said:


> Follow up question, how to fix an older dog with a gun fire avoidance, i understand that proper introduction of gun fire to a puppy is one of the best way, how about for an older dogs? are there ways on how to fix them?


I just took on a client with a gunshy springer (would be hunting dog). My plan is to desensitize to audiory, olfactory and visual cues and pray for good results.

I'm off to go buy some "poppers" fireworks and a clicker.


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