# Looking for real working Bull Terrier lines in Germany



## mike suttle

Does anyone on here know of any real good Bull Terrier clubs or breeders in Germany (or anywhere in Europe)? If so can you give me some contact info. Next time I go overthere (hopefully sometime this fall) I want to visit a few Bull Terrier clubs and talk with some breeders if there are any good working Bull Terriers left in World.


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Look in Russia


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Were there any good breeders to begin with ??


----------



## Steve Strom

A Bull Terrier like Spuds Mckennzie?? Or a Staffordshire Bull Terrier? Working like hunting badgers or something?


----------



## Jason Moore

Why the bull terrier mike? Just curious. I did have a friend that asked me if through my research of AB's if I ever ran across any working bull terrier kennels.


----------



## Nicole Stark

I can't imagine that it would be all that easy to assemble enough good dogs to make up a working breeding program with this breed.


----------



## Bob Scott

I hate putting human terms on dogs but, of all the breeds I've owned in my life time, the Bull Terrier was the ONLY one that I could convince myself was a dumb ******* dog. 
Spuds started the "Party Animal" term with them and it's dead on! Big clown! Just not the brightest bulb in the lamp.


----------



## mike suttle

Let me make a few things more clear here about this post. This dog will be for a friend of mine who is hell bent on getting a Bull Terrier and working it in our training group. So I figured since I was going to be the one doing all the decoy work I would take it upon myself to help him find one that would work.
I am not talking about the show dog/pet dog Bull Terriers that we have here in the USA. When I was kid on buy trips with my dad I saw some pretty intense working Bull Terriers in Germany. They were nothing like the white one I see here today in the USA. These dogs were mostly brindle and much longer legged and much more agile and athletic, they had over the top prey drive and they were very solid nerved dogs, I remember my father commenting on how tough they were. This was 25 years ago so I dont know if that type of dog is still available or not. But if it is then I would like to try to get something like that for my friend, instead of something from a pet or show breeder here.


----------



## andreas broqvist

Ther is a guy cald *igmuska* at the 13 Legion Bord that have a Bullterrier that sounds pretty good.
Hes from Michigan US. Downt know more about the dog than what I have seen from his post but maby somthing to start loking in to withou getting to germany. He Is from show lines but maby you can get some god ones ther to.


----------



## mike suttle

thanks for the help, but based on the pictures alone that is not exactly what I am looking for.


----------



## andreas broqvist

Ok  
Will post If I se ore hear of any in Europe. HAvent sen ay thug


----------



## mike suttle

Thanks, I have got a few leads to the old bloodline Bull Terriers so far, but I want a lot more before I commit to anything.


----------



## andreas broqvist

Ok nice. If you find somthing shoot me a PM, Wuld realy like to se thos dogs myself.


----------



## kristin tresidder

is something along these lines like what you're looking for?




























and something i didn't think was possible for a bull terrier - she can swim without drowning, let alone while carrying a ball!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

I think that you are ****ed, but look for the dogs like the one above that have as little EGG face as you can. Like looking for a needle in a haystack.


----------



## Josh Queen

Ya know.... I cant tell you how many months I have wondered if this breed would excel in protection/Schutz. I do not know much about their level of intelligence however they seem to have great drive, are fast, look to be agile and supposedly have a very strong bite. Im beginning to wonder if I should pursue finding a breeder in the US.......anyone have suggestions?

I currently have an American Bulldog, he lacks in speed and agility but has very good drive and a good bite. I often worry about him getting injured because he is so lumber-some and blocky also attempting to turn on a dime. I def want to stick with the bully breed of dog...... Anyone know much about using a Bull Terrier for these types of sport?


----------



## Mike Lauer

I just watched one compete at the Capital Area DSO in August
but looking back at the results i cant for the life of me remember her name or her dogs
so i cant tell you how they placed

The dog had drive and an evil Tasmanian devil sounding gargle for a bark

there are a couple people on this board from that club, maybe they know the handler


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

kristin tresidder said:


> is something along these lines like what you're looking for?


I read they were bred to Staffies to get the brindle color, to me the looks of all those bully breeds is just so..steroidesque for lack of a better term.

Give your friend a Dutchie and save him some big bucks on vet bills. If he/she needs to be that different when working a dog, make that friend wear a grass skirt.


----------



## Matt Grosch

I remember the Carl Semencic (author of fighting dogs books) had a chapter about working BT's


----------



## Nicole Stark

It's probably more plausible to get what he's after by him breeding the type dog he's interested in. I think that'd be easy enough to achieve with the right combination of dogs.

To get where you recall the breed to have once been, you'd have to find a solid old type working line which I can only imagine would be difficult to do on any type of appreciable scale. Regardless, I'm interested in knowing what you guys come up with.

I'm betting a mixed rescue could more likely get him what he wants. I found a few on line that would fit the bill at least in physical characteristics, working is another story but likely.


----------



## Jason Moore

Josh Queen said:


> Ya know.... I cant tell you how many months I have wondered if this breed would excel in protection/Schutz. I do not know much about their level of intelligence however they seem to have great drive, are fast, look to be agile and supposedly have a very strong bite. Im beginning to wonder if I should pursue finding a breeder in the US.......anyone have suggestions?
> 
> I currently have an American Bulldog, he lacks in speed and agility but has very good drive and a good bite. I often worry about him getting injured because he is so lumber-some and blocky also attempting to turn on a dime. I def want to stick with the bully breed of dog...... Anyone know much about using a Bull Terrier for these types of sport?


About three. LOL I remember when you were talking about it. See yall soon. Tell Steve and Alan high.


----------



## Nicole Stark

Not having quite the right idea to work with on the old type your looking for I'm not entirely sure if a dog like what's represented in the link below would work for him.

I figure your looking for old type, which at one time had a more pitty look to it anyway so a cross might interest him. I figure that your best bet, if you cannot find a good breeder would be to go with a cross - if he's open to it. 

The UK seems to produce some pretty interesting crosses in otherwise overdone and diluted out breeds. When I was looking for suitable dogs to work with, I found that time and again my searches led back that way - with the exception of New Zealand but that's another story...

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...rier+cross&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&um=1


----------



## Mike Lauer

> If he/she needs to be that different when working a dog, make that friend wear a grass skirt.


hahahahahahaha
that's funny right there, i don't care who you are


----------



## Ian Forbes

If you think that finding a Staffy, Pit Bull, American Bulldog etc. that works is difficult, I would think finding an EBT that works would be nigh on impossible.

Even here in the UK they are numerically small (probably because they are fugly). There is no working venue that I know of where they are common (not since bull baiting was made illegal a few years ago!!).

Best of luck......


----------



## Sheldon Little

Mike Lauer said:


> I just watched one compete at the Capital Area DSO in August
> but looking back at the results i cant for the life of me remember her name or her dogs
> so i cant tell you how they placed
> 
> The dog had drive and an evil Tasmanian devil sounding gargle for a bark
> 
> there are a couple people on this board from that club, maybe they know the handler


That would be Betsie Janson and her dog Kaiser (spelling?) he is a tenacious lil bastard isn't he? I found it funny opening this thread and seeing my picture decoying him on the first page. :grin:


----------



## Josh Queen

I have googled everything I can possibly think of trying to find a breeder that produces "working" bull terriers in the US.........NOTHING......CAN SOME ONE PLEASE PROVIDE SOME INSIGHT.

I dont mean a smart @ss answer of "well thats because they dont exist!".


----------



## Don Turnipseed

I can't say anything about the temperament but the dog pictured by the pool has great working dog structure as far as running. Low tailset, slightly roach backed with good length. You can see how the roach and the downward curve of the spine to get the tailset has rotated the hips so the legs are under the rear of the dog instead of stuck oput the back like they are stacked for benchwork. I bet that dog can stand with his chest against something and still jump straight up on it......where dogs with the legs rotated to the rear have to stand back away from something to make the jump. That dog is actually built to move.


----------



## Gillian Schuler

Here's a link to a dog club. The "Vorsitzender" (TD?), Jürgen Kolb, has owned and worked with bull terriers for 20 years. His email is shown, too:

http://www.hundefreunde-langfurth.com/index.htm

See also "Fotos" and "Alte Zeiten". Unfortunately the videos of his present bull terrier in Schutzdienst aren't working but the webmaster says he had to take some videos off the site and it will be back to normal shortly.

Most bull terrier breeders are being bred for show from what I've seen.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Run across this. Don't know if they have been mentioned.
http://www.thunderrockoldtymebullbreeds.co.uk/index.html?_ret_=return


----------



## Bob Scott

Interesting site Don.
I'm thinking he's got some Lurcher working for him in those "Alaunte" dogs. 
I've seen Pit/greyhound crosses that could pass for litter mates.


----------



## Mike D'Abruzzo

You might find this site of interest. In Pakistan they have maintained their own dogs from the original Hink's Bull terriers brought over by the brittish in the 1800's. They seem to be used primarily for hunting and guard dogs there. They call them "Gull Terr"

gallery:
http://k2bullykutta.com/w/gallerygtm.htm


Description:
http://k2bullykutta.com/w/breed.htm#GulTerr


----------



## Mike D'Abruzzo

I looked deeper into the page....apparently dog fighting too...I'm obviously not promoting this!

Just thought some people might be interested to see what the bull terrier is like in a land where they havent been primarily bred for exaggerated show standards.


----------



## Bob Scott

Interesting article but one thing I question. 
The standard calls for the correct ears to be erect and the article says this goes way back in the breed history.
From what I've learned over ther years about the Hink's terrier was that the ears were originally cropped. When that was later considered a fault in order to get away from the pit image, the erect ears then became a "selected for" ear. That always made sense to me because the pit rarely has an erect ear when left natural. I've also read that the Hick's terrier was bred to add a bit of class to the pit dogs. (selection for looks). Just being bred for the white color is a fault in the breeding. 
I had a nice winning SHOWLINE BT and I can tell you that the massive Roman head had litle brains in it. 
IF that erect ear is called for in the standards then they are breeding for physical characteristics no different then breeding for more angulation in the GSD. 
Just an observation. It's still an interesting article.


----------



## mike suttle

Thanks for the info with this kennel. it is still not what I am looking for for my friend. I want to stay away from the white dogs all together. I think I have found a lead on a German imported working line BT, I will keep you posted.


----------



## Bob Scott

Mike, the white dog is crossed with the colored. White to white in BTs is like breeding two merle Aussies. Weak pigment, higher % of deafness, etc!
In that light its mostly what comes up in each litter.
If the all white dog is known to carry the gene for color then there is no problem.
Example;
The white BT that I had had a very small dark streak in the corner of one eye. He would be ok to breed with another white. 
Either way, the colored BTs arent any better/worse then the white BTs.....today!


----------



## mike suttle

Bob Scott said:


> Mike, the white dog is crossed with the colored. White to white in BTs is like breeding two merle Aussies. Weak pigment, higher % of deafness, etc!
> In that light its mostly what comes up in each litter.
> If the all white dog is known to carry the gene for color then there is no problem.
> Example;
> The white BT that I had had a very small dark streak in the corner of one eye. He would be ok to breed with another white.
> Either way, the colored BTs arent any better/worse then the white BTs.....today!


That may be true, but the best ones I remember seeing in Germany 20 + years ago were all brindle dogs, and I remember them saying that the whilte ones were not from real working lines.
I have no idea about the lines of the BT, I am the first person to admit that, but I would tend to believe what the folks there were saying about them.
I may have my friend talked into a DS now anyway!!


----------



## andreas broqvist

Mike.
Bully Cutta Is not bullteriers. Its a Breed they use in pakistan in Bear Baiting, Dogfigts and stuff like that. If you read more about it you se that it sounds like a Garding/fighting dog that do not liek peopel/dogs ore animals. A realy har dog to handel.

When I lookt them up some years ago to me they felt like Otcharkas/Kangal ald likewise dogs in a Bully body.
Not a dog to train in traditional sport


----------



## andreas broqvist

Sorry saw that you ment the Gull Terr now


----------



## kristin tresidder

Don Turnipseed said:


> Run across this. Don't know if they have been mentioned.
> http://www.thunderrockoldtymebullbreeds.co.uk/index.html?_ret_=return


the brindle bull terrier dog is nice looking!


----------



## Long Gao

This is one of my crazy little monsters, she does boar hunting with my dogos, bites anyone anywhere who messes with her. The only problem is that she does not get along with any female dogs.... 

She is rough, rude, but sweet and funny with the family. oh.... I got her from russia.


----------



## georgia estes

This is mine.


----------



## Shawn Killeleagh

There was a guy on this forum http://www.thehuntinglife.com/ breeding old school athletic bull terriers. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/

Would have to search a bit to find the guy but it may be your best bet at an awesome dog


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Long Gao said:


> This is one of my crazy little monsters, she does boar hunting with my dogos, bites anyone anywhere who messes with her. The only problem is that she does not get along with any female dogs....
> 
> She is rough, rude, but sweet and funny with the family. oh.... I got her from russia.


This is ware I would go to get one also


----------



## Shawn Killeleagh

http://www.thunderrockoldtymebullbreeds.co.uk/index.html

Found it.
oops, I cut and paste the image here, and it was huge!! 
These are the old school, kinda look like a gull terr from south asia.


----------



## Jennifer Sider

Try Friar Tuck lines and Mr. Rudolf Severin -- from Germany; I believe Longwood's had a few posts; but the board is unsearchable and tricky to find stuff in


----------

