# Possessive 12 week old pup-



## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

I am fostering a 12 week old malinoisx pup from FR/KNPV lines. He will be trained to be a miltary working dog in his future. He probably be sold to the Air force or other brance of military. I am to socialize this dog and begin prey drive work, some bite work and OB if I can fit it in. Focus on not deminishing any drive due to the future military use.

Interesting situation so please read the entire "story"

Background:
Pups were raised as a pack until 10 weeks old in a laundry room. Supposedly very doggy and aggressive when together, calmer and good pack drive wehn individual. Owner aquired them in a "rescue" situation to take them off guy's hands who could not handle these mals tearing up his house.

The male pup I have is said to be the most dominant one who picks on and fights with other littermates. Assumed to have the most potential.

No previous bite work, obedience or pack structure had been started.

The male pup I have has good nerves and is hard- very intelligent, affectionate/pack driven as well. Prey drive is there, just not channeled at a toy/tug/ball yet. (chases soccer ball, small children, cats, my legs, not as intersted in moving towel too much or tennis ball. Loves to chase decoy running away.) Natural calm, full grip on items. - Long holds and carry naturally.

Very confident around other dogs (even those barking aggressively at him through fences- will ignore if asked.) Good around people- ignores most. Barks at people who are running at him including my husband or small children.

Working to socialize him everywhere- Home Depot, Playground Equipment, Car rides, Weird noises etc.- No stranger pet policy- sometimes let responsible people pet him correctly.

*Okay, so*.... My problem is this little pup growls when he is chewing a rawhide & someone gets close to his mouth. He has been corrected with a cheek grab until submission and will bouce back from correection immediately and discontinue the growling after if tested by getting close to his mouth again. 
He also growls and will attempt to drop object and bite if he is carrying an object in his mouth and I bring him into my arms to hold/calm and pet face. If I get close to the object in his mouth while petting/desensitizing to touch while holding item- he growls. I corrected for this once and he continues to do it, but stopped testing him since I thought I might negatively associate this correction with the hold. I have only done "into my arms" once with a toy present & the other times I do it to bond, calm and get him used to the way I hold him. I do not take the toys away either, just nearing his mouth.

*Do I correct him for this- or how can I do it without a consequence to his 
hold or drive? How can I avoid this growling stuff? Does this mean he has genetic aggression or prone to handler aggression? WIll this just get better in time with more confidence and tust between handler and dog?*
Take into consideration he will be used for a miltary working dog in his future.

I am taking this slow, but jsut playing wiht his genetic strengths for the mean time. I have only teased him with a cat toy for prey, not too many bites, no grip work, etc...

I am such a newbie (can you tell?) to some stuff. any help would be great.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

This is a military prospect right?

Why are you trying to take him in your arms and calm him when he has a toy???

At what point is this necessary with a young dog that possibly has a lot of posession, and drive, and not enough mental maturity to deal with it.

If you explain this to me a bit better maybe I can get an understanding of what is up.

Or I could just tell you to leave that alone, and that is pet type stuff you are trying to do.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Sounds like a nice pup to me, I wouldn't worry about it right now. I like dogs that are posessive over their prey. Atwhat age is the dog going to the military? Let them deal with it when the dog is old enough for it to be a problem


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## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

Normally the military dogs this guy has are not really worked on anything but a towel until about 8months old.Then they move to the sleeve and compulsion OB (I assume) He wants focus on the towel not the man. 

The pup is more of a "science project" to me. I get to kinda do whatever I want to the dog. So yes, I may just be doing some pet stuf with him. I think he's gonna be a serious dog, but has some issues to overcome to get there. 

I told him how he is doing and he says that the pup is being too possessive to waste time with correction and waiting to see if the pup will outgrow it. He says there are better prospects out there who want the towel and arenot possessive- they'll do better in the training to get to be military dogs... Can someone decipher thing reasoning to me other than "time is money"


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Means you get to keep the dog : )


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## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

I wish- We are swapping him out for another for me to work and then selling off the crap dogs. I'd love to work him to a level for sport though!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Make a deal with the guy. If he has better, maybe he will trade you for the puppy raising you are doing.


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## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

WEll, what do ya know... I got myself a Mal Pup! My first mal!
Jeff, you were right- my hubby got to it before I could think twice and got him for me at a deal- Better for both of us- He can spend his time on a better dog for him & I can fix this one. 
I think I'm gonna learn alot and have fun with this little rascal- I like his stubborn independance also. I don't mind working through it. I'll just give him some time to bond with his new owner and grow into his drives a little.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Nothing to fix, they are supposed to be possesive. Think object guard.

Answer your PM and maybe I can help. LOL


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Hey now no PM'ing I like this topic


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## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

So I am a newbie and I wan tto fill in the gaps and make this dog into something great- sports, ppd, whatever- lean toward real world training- I like ppd but sports are cool too.
Any general or specifics on how ot make this pup head in the right direction based on what's been said in this post considering the pups background and mine (newbie, trained before, not protection, know alittle, want to know ALOT, no fruffy doggy-lover here- if the dog can't work- what's the point? is my thoughts).


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm a little confused here, the pup is 12 weeks old right? And the guy who sells these dogs say's this is a crap dog? Your fostering the dog, has the breeder/seller seen the puppy in person since you started fostering it? I guess my question is who did the evaluation?
AL


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## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

Not really a crap dog, just a waste of time to invest when he has better pupr to put his energy into. Not somehting he's interested in working with.

No real evaluatoin done except for some prey drive exercises- he's got no drive towards the ball or tugs, but is crazy for prey movement, like us running away from him or a large soccer ball. He wans to chase us and is not turned on as much by the movement of an item, like the towel. (what's this mean anyways...) 
I told him how the dog worked and he said he noticed that when he worked him too- sohe wasn't interested in messing with him more.

The guy said he wants the dog to be focused on the towel not the man, so he says he has no real use for him, since he has other pups he considers better. Dogs are pretty much machines to him that do a job. He doesn't want to program the machine- he just wants it to work. (Is this the way most military dog people are?)

I actually jsut bought the pup about an hour ago for a very nice low price, so he'll be a good pet if anything. My hubby said he'll take him for his dog if he really isn't worth messing with.

I think the dog can be something- supposedly the parents were both frenchring dogs who had high ball drive and were both very hard. I see potential, just need to know how to bring it out better.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

A malinois that doesn't bite at 8 weeks old is not a malinois 

But I am confused.... he is posessive, but he has no interest in biting?


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## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

He has interest in biting but not the tug or ball. He shows alot of displacement when working with the towel. I am not making any defensive moves, so I don't think this is it. He will chase the when I stop and encourage him to bark before moving again, he starts looking around like he heard a noise or begins sniffing the ground or backs up.
Maybe I am not letting him win enough and he is becoming frustrated and giving up?
He will chase the ball but will not retreive, yet...
He like one of those wand cat toys with the feathers on the end though better.
help! lol

I am sure I am moving too fast, huh?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Looking at this explanation, maybe you just give him more time. Barking is not important at this time.

Buko didn't bite at this age either. Maybe he is a weirdo like him : )


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

hah in my eyes the guy made the wrong choice.:roll:

A possesive puppy, who wants to bite a man instead of a toy, but does´t bite if he thinks it isn´t necessary ´cause he´s confident enough to do it without biting...who wants more?

Oh, don´t do the petstuff...you´ll waste a good sportprospect :wink:


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Alison Voore said:


> He has interest in biting but not the tug or ball. He shows alot of displacement when working with the towel. I am not making any defensive moves, so I don't think this is it. He will chase the when I stop and encourage him to bark before moving again, he starts looking around like he heard a noise or begins sniffing the ground or backs up.
> Maybe I am not letting him win enough and he is becoming frustrated and giving up?
> He will chase the ball but will not retreive, yet...
> He like one of those wand cat toys with the feathers on the end though better.
> ...


Any chance you can post a video of this?


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## Alison Voore (Mar 13, 2007)

I did some reasearch last night and found out what I was doing wrong.(Wow- I sure am a newbie...so humbled now.) 
I could post a video- but I'm sure I am the problem not him, so I'll save myself the embarrasment. 

I began this morning playing inside the house for 2-3 minutes with a toy he's excited about. I stood still and made the toy move more & really fast. Bingo! He loved it! He was watching the toy, not me, except when I stopped it then he'd bark or yip at it, so I'd move it again. 

Then, because he growls when I tug with him, I just let him win it and run- no tugging. After a few times of this, he kept running back and wanting me to tug with him! I did short tugs and if he growled, I would relax and let him stop growling & be calm and then tug again for like 2 seconds then he wins it.
This helped alot and he has almost stopped the growly/whiny stuff altogether.

Once, I reached past him to get the toy off the floor to begin moving it again and he about swallowed my arm because of it. He wanted to bite and do the possessive stuff, but hesitated and just gripped onto my arm instead when I began moving the toy.

I have done this a couple times this morning and now all he wants to do I play when I get near him! He won't stop biting my legs and jumping on me! Ouch!

I guess I am beginning to experience the joys of owning a mal, huh?

Do I have to use a ball or can I just use tugs/toys? Haven't tried getting him to retrieve yet, so we'll see how that goes. He seemed really nervous about chasing the ball yesterday- he'd look at it chase it & then when he got near the ball he'd run away, like he was afraid of the ball. His mind seemed somewhere else. Do you think he was hit with a ball?

I am stopping the into my arms stuff. What other "pet stuff" do I need to avoid?
I'm gonna have a long road ahead huh? lol!


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