# Commanding Voice



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I've seen folks whose "commanding voice" to their dog hits at different ranges. They either ask the dog if it's okay to do the command or at the other end, barking out orders towards the dog. 

I'm guessing the dog isn't deaf or stupid; a simple "leadership" voice which is done in a clear manner works for me. Why then do some need to yell the commands at the dog as if it can't hear you from a foot away? Or the other handler style that bends down in a matrial arts bow...asking if the request is too much to do? 

Commands which are clear and taught properly should in most cases be given in a normal voice tone...:-$


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, I like a certain Scottish trainers take on it. Commands--sing/quiet voice. Correction--harsher tone, not necessarily loud. If the dog is trained its not a question of ask vs. commanmd. I want mine to associate the command as reward which in a marker system it does. Handler starts barking commands is an indication that he doesn't have a lot of faith, myself included.

T


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I've seen folks whose "commanding voice" to their dog hits at different ranges. They either ask the dog if it's okay to do the command or at the other end, barking out orders towards the dog.
> 
> I'm guessing the dog isn't deaf or stupid; a simple "leadership" voice which is done in a clear manner works for me. Why then do some need to yell the commands at the dog as if it can't hear you from a foot away? Or the other handler style that bends down in a matrial arts bow...asking if the request is too much to do?
> 
> Commands which are clear and taught properly should in most cases be given in a normal voice tone...:-$


Fred Hassen said it the best...Sit means Sit. Someone mentioned on another thread turning your back on the dog standing still and giving a command to see if it actually works. I like this idea.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> ... Handler starts barking commands is an indication that he doesn't have a lot of faith, myself included.
> 
> T


Could it also be that they FEAR the dog they are working? When I raise my voice, my dogs know I have *great displeasure* with their efforts or the lack of them. Barking out orders isn't in IMO a sign of a tough dog or a strong handler, but rather a question of your ability to handle such a tool!

I holler to keep the bears and lions from eating me, therefore I fear the critters of the woods...8-[


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

hard to say.. I know lots of people that bark out commands. Just what they do..I dont get the impression of them thinking that they are tough, or the dogs are tough, because of how they give commands. Just what they do. 

I dont see a relation really, and definitely dont see them as scared of thier dogs.. 

I tend to bark out commands sometimes as well at times.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Joby it goes back to the reason...is it that the dog is blowing you off, not interested in the command, just being a pain? The big question: Do we yell at our employees or friends to get them to function? If not, then what is the reason behind the BIG COMMAND VOICE?:razz:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Joby it goes back to the reason...is it that the dog is blowing you off, not interested in the command, just being a pain? The big question: Do we yell at our employees or friends to get them to function? If not, then what is the reason behind the BIG COMMAND VOICE?:razz:


good question as usual...let me think on it a little....


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Well, I like a certain Scottish trainers take on it. Commands--sing/quiet voice. Correction--harsher tone, not necessarily loud. If the dog is trained its not a question of ask vs. commanmd. I want mine to associate the command as reward which in a marker system it does. Handler starts barking commands is an indication that he doesn't have a lot of faith, myself included.
> 
> T


With Scottish trainers, it's not the tone that gets their attention. It's the accent ;-)


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> ? If not, then what is the reason behind the BIG COMMAND VOICE?:razz:


Its not a good reason but its the reason I originally started putting music to my videos. We were having out issues and one day I had enough and gave a forceful angry out command. She immediately outted and so it began a few months of training time of me using my voice in a way I wasn't comfortable with or accustomed to. We are past that now and I can work with her in a much more natural way.

Like I said not a good reason just the reason it ever entered the picture to begin with.


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

At our club since we normally are working in pairs or teams of people we are expected to say our commands loud enough for all those working together to hear. So sometimes our commands are a bit louder in a club situation then we'd maybe do it when training alone. 

I prefer to give softer commands but I know in trial I can get pretty loud when my nerves kick in!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Start off barking and you've got nowhere to go. I'd prefer that the dog responds to normal but crisp commands then if I have to raise my voice it means more to the dog. 
Loud barking commands, for me, usually means I'm not in a good place.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Start off barking and you've got nowhere to go. I'd prefer that the dog responds to normal but crisp commands then if I have to raise my voice it means more to the dog.
> Loud barking commands, for me, usually means I'm not in a good place.


 Gotta Love Bob!!! Thanks...I now have someplace to go.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Start off barking and you've got nowhere to go. I'd prefer that the dog responds to normal but crisp commands then if I have to raise my voice it means more to the dog.
> Loud barking commands, for me, usually means I'm not in a good place.


That's true! I also think that loud commands are often coupled with emotion and the dog notes this and realises the hander is losing it.

There is a way to give commands with conviction. In German it's called "schneidend" (biting, cutting, incisive). I learned this whilst training the protection phase. I had a good helper who could always hear whether it was "biting" enough. He could tell if the dog obeyed obviously.

My husband once asked me if I thougt my dog was hard of hearing - took the hint and whilst out with the dog, tried lowering my voice and realised the dog was just walking in front of me although he should have been in "Platz". It took a day or two until I gradually got to the stage where I could issue commands in a normal voice. Once or twice it needed a physical correction to accompany the lowered tone but it worked.

Whispering can sometimes unnerve a dog, especially if you've been shouting too loudly - that's assuming he hear you


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

so what if the person just gives loud commands, without emotion?

does that mean they are just an ass?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Not necessarily - they might earn one the title of Sergeant Major at the dog club - happened to me when training my first dog.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

During trials the judges must be able to hear your command. They may be half way down the field. Some people are just louder than others too.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

At least they didn't hear me muttering to my Briard "I'll have your guts for garters" if you don't stop prancing like a pony" on the first leg of the obedience. Luckily it worked- by the time we turned, he'd settled down and we were able to produce a decent obedience.


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Joby it goes back to the reason...is it that the dog is blowing you off, not interested in the command, just being a pain? The big question: Do we yell at our employees or friends to get them to function? If not, then what is the reason behind the BIG COMMAND VOICE?:razz:


Next time my friends are in high drive guarding a helper with a loud bark that even the helper goes deaf I'll ask them in human comunication can you hear me? My male is so loud even helpers say they can't hear and their ears hurt! so I end up giving very loud commands for protection training and I hate it I think it can depend on the dog too! in the BH with this dog the judge told me my commands where "too quite" even though he did all his OB very nice! go figure.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

I have heard my TD ask many times of people, is your dog hard of hearing?. He goes on to add that loud commands need to be saved for stadiums full of people, where it is needed.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I have always taught a handler should use three voices;

1. command voice
2. praise voice
3. correction voice. 

Yes I demonstrate them and make the handlers say them as well. I think voice is very important, particularly when it gets stressful.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> I have always taught a handler should use three voices;
> 
> 1. command voice
> 2. praise voice
> ...




I'm always amazed at the men that refuse to use a good correction voice. Seems they think it's not manly to talk like that. ](*,) :lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> I'm always amazed at the men that refuse to use a good correction voice. Seems they think it's not manly to talk like that. ](*,) :lol:


bob, do you mean Praise voice???...I think the correction voice is probably pretty manly...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

David Frost said:


> I have always taught a handler should use three voices;
> 
> 1. command voice
> 2. praise voice
> ...


That is very true. I have often listened to handlers use the same voice. For instance:

"Sit"
"What the heck are you doing you idiiot - I said "sit"
"Good boy"

all in exactly the same tone. We expect our dogs to be flexible but we can't even change our voice in a second ourselves.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Practicing my voice was something I learned right around the time I learned to watch myself doing mark-and-reward in a mirror (to check for timing and not telegraphing with the reward hand). 

It appears that lots of folks agree that an unnecessarily loud command voice can convey emotion that we don't want to convey. I do think that paying attention to the voice can help avoid that. 

There might be another side, though, that maybe Dave was referring to on page one. 

That is, maybe the dog should also learn that down means down no matter what the tone of voice, so that there is no hesitation or confusion if we ever respond to a frightening situation by inadvertently giving a command in a loud panicky voice. 

I don't want my dog to stare at me in confusion if he hears "down" in a voice he has never heard a command given in, at what might be a crucial time.

This too, like giving commands with my back turned, was advice, and not my own idea  (sadly, the gems I consider to be some of my best tools all came from someone else .... :lol: ): Even though I do what David said and practice my tone(s) of voice, I also make sure as a part of proofing that the dog has heard and complied with my worked-up-to best approximation of a panicked shout too.

This advice came with "immediate praise in normal praise voice" each time I did that gradually-escalating panic-command, demonstrating that panic-voice is no more than part of the training, and nothing "personal."

I hope I'm describing it OK. It's easier to understand in person. LOL


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Practicing my voice was something I learned right around the time I learned to watch myself doing mark-and-reward in a mirror (to check for timing and not telegraphing with the reward hand).
> 
> It appears that lots of folks agree that an unnecessarily loud command voice can convey emotion that we don't want to convey. I do think that paying attention to the voice can help avoid that.
> 
> ...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I hope I'm describing it OK. It's easier to understand in person. 

I'll come and visit you :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> _"I hope I'm describing it OK. It's easier to understand in person." _
> 
> I'll come and visit you :lol:



OK. Then YOU can describe it. :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> bob, do you mean Praise voice???...I think the correction voice is probably pretty manly...



Yep! Praise voice. 8-[


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Yep! Praise voice. 8-[


I love the praise voice  my neighbors prolly think I am fruity...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> I love the praise voice  my neighbors prolly think I am fruity...


Especially with a puppy. I get on the ground flat on my back or belly and sound like a squealy little girl. Amazing how you can get a shy or cautious pup to pounce on you. Some pups ya gotta stay on your feet though if you want your face in one piece. :lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Especially with a puppy. I get on the ground flat on my back or belly and sound like a squealy little girl. Amazing how you can get a shy or cautious pup to pounce on you. Some pups ya gotta stay on your feet though if you want your face in one piece. :lol:


yeah...no thanks..I havent gotten on the ground flat on my back and squeled with a pup in a long time, they all like to bite pretty hard lately..

I did fall down one time when this dog was about 2 years old, 2 years ago, was drinking and trying to run in the mud....I fell down flat on my back..

the dog climbed up on me and sat on me...just sat there...
she is not one of those dogs that is submissive and will try to get under you...maybe she was guarding me, or maybe she just wanted to sit on me..


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

Don't forget the people that have the oppisiate problem, you and the dog can barely hear their tiny winey pleas for the dog to comply. Sounds like they are training mosquitos. 
Had that lady in last night for regular OB. Dog is described as fearful of people, owner is very very soft. So she has this poor shepherd that could really use a confident person in what we hope will be a positive enviroment. And the lady is begging the dog around the ring. Hovering over the poor animal. And i'm trying to stay out of it cause i'm not the class instructor. But the lady who does teach has the happiest command voice i've ever heard. She is very pleasent but also very firm. The command is done is a positive and just a bit louder then normal voice. So I'm hoping Wimpy owner might pick up on that instructors tone. 
I think i was taught to speak the command in a little louder voice by an old school style trainer, before all this "Purely Positive" stuff started. And it just stuck.
My Schn trainer thinks i'm soft though.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> . I get on the ground flat on my back or belly and sound like a squealy little girl. QUOTE]
> 
> Are we talking about puppy training or the Halloween party where your wife dressed up as a sailor and you were the sailors Ho in a red dress? ;-)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Bob Scott said:
> 
> 
> > . I get on the ground flat on my back or belly and sound like a squealy little girl. QUOTE]
> ...


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