# Judge at the Dean Calderon seminar...



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Here are some videos of Judge working at the Dean Calderon seminar in Post Falls, ID a few weekends ago. He is doing very well. I just wish I had a more serious club at home to train with that had a timeline instead of when they get titled they get titled. I'll be traveling a couple hours/2x a month to a different club to help us more. 

http://youtu.be/Bvfv1LYDe4A

http://youtu.be/Z04r8LDlqSg

http://youtu.be/Au5Tt6fl7yM

http://youtu.be/nxUVijoY7nA


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Holy shit ! ! ! ! ! ! !


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Ok.....I'll bite...what's that supposed to mean?


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Did I write something ?? Must have gotten the wrong thread.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> Ok.....I'll bite...what's that supposed to mean?


I think it means that part of the seminar sucked, what do you suppose the reasoning behind the second person on the long line was ?

It didn't seem consistent, lots of babble from someone in the background....decoy didn't seem to have a plan other than what he's seen before..


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

The reason for the person on the 2nd line was to stop him from going in and grabbing groin, which is what he had been doing a lot at our club. We had him at the club where he wasn't doing it as much but the decoys don't tend to wanna work him when he is biting them in the leg cause he isn't getting a bite on the sleeve. 

What you hear in the background is actually Dean(the decoy) on the PA system explaining what he was doing. 

I'm not sure what you mean about the plan, this was the 2nd day that he saw my dog and worked him, so he didn't know him well or anything like that.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I've always thought that if someone is giving a seminar he or she should be able to adjust their methods to suit any dog..for marketable reasons if nothing else.

But what the **** do I know :lol:


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I thought it was a good seminar and that Dean knew what he was talking about...that or he is a good bullshitter, I choose to believe the former. I also thought he worked my dog well and gave us some tools to get better performance out of him as my decoys have made him a little lazy due to their inexperience. 

It is what it is. I learned a lot of new things, heard some others repeated and had a great weekend just training dogs.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> It is what it is. I learned a lot of new things, heard some others repeated and had a great weekend just training dogs.


That's all that matters really.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

If anyone ever wonders why I don't ask for advise over the internet, just remember this thread. :lol:


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Too ****ing stubborn to take it anyway.


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> If anyone ever wonders why I don't ask for advise over the internet, just remember this thread. :lol:


For sure! I wasn't asking for advice just to make that clear. I paid to go to the seminar because of Dean's accomplishments and experience. Is his way for everyone? Nope, and he'll tell you that. He'll also tell you that you have to change things for every dog, they're all different. I definetely will take his advice over most others because he knows what it takes to get to the top and has done so often. 

This is why I don't post vids very often. I am not the best trainer but I get out there and TRY, that's what counts!


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Personally I loved watching him squirm in the blind like an old woman with mice running across her fat feet. 

Perhaps he should wear a skirt while doing this. That, and at least get someone competent with a long line to help out.......... HA HA 

How many times does it have to go wrong before you get someone that won't get you bitten ??


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Jeff- I hae to say that the guy putting this seminar on was an honest, hardworking dog trainer. He also happens to have a LOT of accomplishments under his belt...MANY MANY more than you. I'll take what he said to heart, he saw my dog, worked my dog and helped us fix a couple issues we had. 

I've never heard your name associated with World Competitons.....just saying. 

The long line did get screwed up a couple times and you won't see it in the videos but things changed regarding the long line. 

Thanks for your ever so helpful critique(that wasn't asked for) as always...you are the master of training!


----------



## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Just to echo what Courtney said for anyone browsing this thread.. Dean is without a doubt a VERY accomplished dog trainer and Schutzhund competitor. His accomplishments in the sport are amazing to say the least and his work/theory behind table training, etc is followed by many other serious trainers & competitors. 

No reason to talk to this guy up as I have never even trained with him, though I'd love to attend one of his seminars in the future, but I don't think these clips posted are really doing him justice based on what I've seen from him. We have no real way of knowing what else occured during Judge's session(s) with him so personally I wouldn't judge this guy off of those short clips.


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Anyone that can judge a program/whole seminar on less than 5 minutes worth of bitework videos is a master at training! 

The long line person did screw up a couple times, however, we worked that exercise a lot longer than what you see in the vids, those were from the beginning, the long line guy got it together after the second clip.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> If anyone ever wonders why I don't ask for advise over the internet, just remember this thread. :lol:


=D>


----------



## Hugho Aldaco (May 7, 2011)

I see here large difference between schutzhund and french ring. Schutzhund emphasis always frustration and restraint. F?rustration and restrain always with same picture to dog. When two things change, many dogs think confused. Dog need frustration again for new picture in order for dog to act same. Picture to dog change and no frustration... dog acts like he knows nothing. Worst dog when same picture but ALWAYS need frustration. No frustration, dog acts confused.
Easier with malinois who always show frustrate, no need for always restraining when not puppy. Dog bites easy. No need for much anger and impatience in dog from always restraining.


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Seriously, I definetely take what Dean told me WAY more serious than your dribble drabble BS. How many dogs have you titled? If you're SO good, why aren't you competing at a high level and SUCCEEDING!??? 

Anyway...Carry on Jeff, you provide some good entertainment!


----------



## Hugho Aldaco (May 7, 2011)

My friend visited Dean Calderon, and he say things in obedience that I don't understand why. He hold dumb bell whip dog and say "you know what this brings? You know what this brings?"Maybe we do things more simple in Mexico, or we just pick different dog.


----------



## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

Oh Man I miss my friend Mike Scheiber on this one....Mike! Mike! are you reading this?


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

For this dog, what does "revier" and "out? revier" supposed to mean as commands. In video #1 you send the dog, he hits the end of the line and spins and turns tail. Decoy cracks whip to get his attention. Dog ends up in perfect bark and hold, albeit a little far away. However, decoy has you pull him away and he ends up giving a bite for behavior that wasn't as precise. What is his intent as far as this set up is concerned and the "out revier" concept.


Terrasita


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Hugho Aldaco said:


> My friend visited Dean Calderon, and he say things in obedience that I don't understand why. He hold dumb bell whip dog and say "you know what this brings? You know what this brings?"Maybe we do things more simple in Mexico, or we just pick different dog.



Hugho

I bet Dean was cracking the whip to stimulate the dog/build drive for the dumb bell. I doubt that he was whipping the dog. Dean is a world class competitors and has a lot to teach anyone willing to listen.


----------



## Hugho Aldaco (May 7, 2011)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hugho
> 
> I bet Dean was cracking the whip to stimulate the dog/build drive for the dumb bell. I doubt that he was whipping the dog. Dean is a world class competitors and has a lot to teach anyone willing to listen.


For schutzhund maybe. Very little exercise (not many), very much energy and frustration in all them. We would choose dogs that don't need whips for more energy. He use whip for dumb bell any way maybe not on dog. It sound strange for me still.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> For this dog, what does "revier" and "out? revier" supposed to mean as commands. In video #1 you send the dog, he hits the end of the line and spins and turns tail. Decoy cracks whip to get his attention. Dog ends up in perfect bark and hold, albeit a little far away. However, decoy has you pull him away and he ends up giving a bite for behavior that wasn't as precise. What is his intent as far as this set up is concerned and the "out revier" concept.
> 
> 
> Terrasita


Terrasita,

The second handler should have been closer to Courtney so Judge was stopped in the proper position and not pulled off to the side. You're just looking at a very small snippet of a process that takes several sessions. The two lines are usually one aggression line on the prong collar and one prey line on a flat collar or harness. Checking the dog with a prong collar is both a correction and also builds drive. (see Helmut Raisers work) When Dean has Courtney pull back Judge on the harness it is too build prey. Notice that Dean tells the second handler to do a "light" correction when Judge
comes back in for a second revier. Dean hasn't been a successful world competitor and coach for other world competitors for over 20 years if he didn't know what he was doing. Those that can compete do. those that can't are on the Internet.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: We would choose dogs that don't need whips for more energy.


If more people did this, the breeds would be way better off.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Hugho Aldaco said:


> For schutzhund maybe. Very little exercise (not many), very much energy and frustration in all them. We would choose dogs that don't need whips for more energy. He use whip for dumb bell any way maybe not on dog. It sound strange for me still.


You're thinking French ring where the dog has to be in lower drive to get through all the exercises at once. In Schutzhund the dog has to peak during certain phases of protection.
Different sports, different dogs do better in one or the other


----------



## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Hugho, if your friend attended a schutzhund seminar he should have expected to be exposed to dogs from all over the spectrum - highest drives to the lowest. Not everyone competing in the sport has over-the-top drive dogs that need no work to move through every exercise as quickly as possible. 

As Thomas said, I'm sure Dean used a whip to stimulate the dog for the dumbbell exercise, not whipping the dog itself..

I hear you on people wanting the best tool for the job when it comes to dog sports (or anything for that matter), but consider that many people who stumble upon these sports are purely drawn to the control and bond between dog and handler and they figure why not get started with their current dog so they can learn, hope to title, then 'move up' to something bigger and better down the line? There's nothing wrong with that to me (if these same people don't tote their dogs as 'real working' dogs and go to breed them). 

Believe it or not, learning what can help bring the best out in lesser dogs in different exercises can help you to better train your own dog.


----------



## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

But Thomas you're on the internet.......

I think the dog looks confused on what's being asked of him Courtney, maybe you can put a command and teach it like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxM-JDT2Nfo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

It's VERY clear to these dogs what's being asked of them


----------



## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

I'm surprised that Dean gave permission to post video of bitework and table work...
We had Dean a few weeks back and thelesson was so clear on teaching my dog to out. The lesson was very clear to the dog and I certainlty avoided some of the same pitfalls I had with my older dog Like Courtney's video I gave command "out, voran" after the out to hopefully make it clearer to the dog what is being asked of him. The only difference is that I tried to pause inbetween the words in attempt to separate the commands. My dog got it. 
My other opinion is that Dean will compete with a certain type of dog-one that brings a lot to the sport. A genetically superior dog is what he aims for and trains with. And I don't know if he has recently trained a dog from 0 to SchH3. That said, Most of us have OK dogs and they may have issues. My female Sita was a genetic mess, a temperamental mess, and a body that just fell apart. She taught me a lot about dog training however! I can apprecaite the lessons she taught me.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> But Thomas you're on the internet.......
> 
> I think the dog looks confused on what's being asked of him Courtney, maybe you can put a command and teach it like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxM-JDT2Nfo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
> 
> It's VERY clear to these dogs what's being asked of them


Al

I'm a club level trainer. Not an international or even National level competitor. I never claimed to be an expert and I'm not talking trash about a World Competitor based on a acouple of minutes of video tape.

Re Bart Bellon

Bart is one of the best trainers around but you're comparing
a short video of an untrained dog at a seminar with a demo of two trained dogs.


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

deleted out remarks who didn't have anything to do with this topic or dogs (sport) what so ever.
Please stay on topic and keep personal attacks out of here.


----------



## Hugho Aldaco (May 7, 2011)

We see different viewpoint. I talk only of really cases, but often if the dog no likes to work, not fair to ask dog to work. Bosses of sports want to be kind and help, but often better saying not fair to dog and get a different dog. I am not certain where to cut off always, but often case of boss wants to show he can do something, so he do it even if not fair to dog. That show his customer he can do anything. Customer is happy dog does. Boss is happy customer happy. Dog not always happy. In Mexico we train more for what dog does. If the dog behave happy, he happy. Good. Happy always better. If he real on men, he real on men. We can no change much. But we no always TRAIN to be happy or looking aggressive. We train to do. Understand? Often people think restraint frustration is happy. That why french ring more popular. Its ok but different.


----------



## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> I'm surprised that Dean gave permission to post video of bitework and table work...
> We had Dean a few weeks back and thelesson was so clear on teaching my dog to out. The lesson was very clear to the dog and I certainlty avoided some of the same pitfalls I had with my older dog Like Courtney's video I gave command "out, voran" after the out to hopefully make it clearer to the dog what is being asked of him. The only difference is that I tried to pause inbetween the words in attempt to separate the commands. My dog got it.
> My other opinion is that Dean will compete with a certain type of dog-one that brings a lot to the sport. A genetically superior dog is what he aims for and trains with. And I don't know if he has recently trained a dog from 0 to SchH3. That said, Most of us have OK dogs and they may have issues. My female Sita was a genetic mess, a temperamental mess, and a body that just fell apart. She taught me a lot about dog training however! I can apprecaite the lessons she taught me.



Sarah- My dog got it as well by the end of the 2nd day. It was a great seminar. I didn't figure I'd need his permission to post vids of my dog being worked but I can see now,why maybe I would!!! 

To those who think my dog is shit...well Dean disagrees with you. He thinks that I have an EXTREMELY NICE dog who unfortunately has a newer handler that doesn't/hasn't done him justice!!! 

Judge has some handler created issues. Other than that, he's a damn fine dog! 

BTW- Regarding the Hold and Bark, Judge KNOWS a hold and bark and does it well, except he would go in FAST and VERY DIRTY. If he didn't get a bite in what e perceived as a reasonable time he will grab my decoys legs, groin area or wherever he can. That is the reason he was worked like he was in these videos. Just as a side-note. You can't watch less than 5 minutes of video and get the whole story!! 

I'm done here. Thank you to those that are decent people and to the rest....I guess his scores in his trials will prove you wrong!


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Courtney Guthrie said:


> I didn't figure I'd need his permission to post vids of my dog being worked but I can see now,why maybe I would!!!
> 
> Posting a video of this train wreak without asking the guy is the rudest most inconsiderate thing you could have done, you’re a fool for doing it. He is an idiot for letting you tape anything. JMO


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 

BTW- Regarding the Hold and Bark, Judge KNOWS a hold and bark and does it well, except he would go in FAST and VERY DIRTY.

This explains everything. What part of it do you think he knows ?? LOL What part of it do you think he does well, when you have to use the word "except" ??

Reality is a bitch isn't it ? Your dog doesn't understand what he is supposed to be doing, and if he is biting the helper in the ****ing leg, he is not doing it well.


----------

