# Bloat in my 4mo GSD - Advice and help needed



## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

All, 

Had a very scary incident with my 4mo old puppy last night, long story short he got bloat luckily no twisting of the stomach so he spent the night in emergency care and is spending the day with the vet under observation and getting xrayd to make sure his stomach is coming back to correct size and location. The vet feels that probably a gastroplexy will be needed since this occured at such a young age. I've spoken to the breeder and there is no familial history of bloat in his bloodlines so she was just as concerned as I. So here are the facts.

1. Diet - Feed exclusively Orijen Large Breed puppy mix, with no extra additives or enhancements. Feed recommended 2x daily although he is more of a grazer than a gulper and doesnt generally eat everything in one sitting. He does gulp his water though and I haven't limited his water consumption either before or after eating. He is a normal working puppy so he is always on the go both before and after meals so I haven't limited his activity after eating. His bowl is slightly elevated but no more than 4" off the ground.

2. He has not exhibited any excessive gas, burping or farting, at anytime since I got him.

3. I haven't noticed any excessive eating of grass or any foreign objects (rocks, dirt, etc), except last night when he was trying to make himself throw up.

Has anyone else experienced bloat at such a young age? What about treatment and preventative measures, any thoughts or ideas? I have no issue with the gastroplexy and will probably get that done just to be sure he doesn't twist if it reoccurs. Has anyone had the laproscopic gastroplexy done vs. the traditional method and if so, any complications or benefits?

I want to make sure my puppy stays healthy and happy so please any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


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## Erin Suggett (Nov 17, 2007)

What did the vet say was the cause of the bloat?
What did the x-ray show? Did the vet have an opinion?


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

The vet really had no idea what caused the bloat, based on what I've been reading that is often the case. As for what the xray showed it was just a bloated stomach, no twisting, no obstructions, just the food he had eaten several hours earlier. The only real opinion was regarding the potential for the gastroplexy and I have another meeting with him this evening when I pick my boy up (barring any unforseen consequences)


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

I also feed the same food to my dutchie, but Im always a little nervous around feeding time. I split his meals in two (day and night) but also, since he is excited in the morning when I get home, I will sometimes split the morning meal into two divided by an hour or so. I also limit his water around food time. I let him get a good drink first, then wait about 20 mins, then only give him a small bit with food. I dont really know how much this helps, but it just always concerns me after he eats and then I see him at the rear arcadia/glass door wanting to come inside and sitting there bouncing six feet in the air with excitement



Someone mentioned here that when they treat bloat they can staple the stomach (to the back or something?) to help prevent it in the future, dont know anything about it other than that post but it sounded interesting


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

Yes, the stapling is called a gastropexy. They staple the stomach to the chest wall cavity and while it doesn't prevent bloat it will prevent the twisting of the stomach. This can be done traditionally through surgery or laproscopically. The laproscopic procedure requires less down time for the dog and risk is smaller. Here's a slide presentation I found regarding the procedure www.rmiwa.org/images/Lap*gastropexy*IW.pdf . I don't know the impact of the procedure on the dog's ability to work although it appears all of the deployed military dogs have the procedure done as a matter of course.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Having owned Dobermans before I have had a bit of exposure to it. While myself I only had full blown bloat once, other friends of mine got it alot. One lady had a dog that would bloat a couple of times a year even just through drinking too much water. They were always able to put a tube down and relieve it (ie no twisting). So there are dogs which seem really prone to it and generally not so much puppies from what I was told. In the end with my dobies and now with all my dogs I crate them an hour before and two after, feed very little dry food and no water with their food.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Internet exams really suck, but then so do exams from vets like the ones at the Banfield/petsmart hospitals.

I'm curious what you saw to warrant taking the dog to the vet in the first place? Were there signs of abdominal discomfort? Flatulence (that's a medical fart) why did you take him in the first place?


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

Well the fact that he spent 15-20 minutes trying to throw up with no results, the fact that he ran outside and then ate about a ton of grass to make himself throw up and then the fact that he was breathing like a son of a bitch, salivating endlessly and wasn't healthy. Oh not to mention the constant whining in pain, kinda thought I shouldn't just put him in his crate and go to bed


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

John, 

Does he scarf down his food? If so, you can put something heavy in the dish that he has to eat around, which will slow him down. 

Bloat is a controversial issue as far as the "why's" and "how's" of it. 

I limit water intake at one time, don't feed within and hour of working or one to two hours after working, and some of the other precautions mentioned......but some think that it could be a genetic issue and that some dogs are predisposed to bloat....I don't know that I agree with that 100 percent, but I don't dismiss it either. 

I hope your pup gets better soon.


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

Vajra is now home from the vet =D>and I have to keep an eye on him for the next few days. No rough play, limited food intake, outdoors only on a leash, rest after eating, (easier said than done for a 4mo pup). He seems to be in good spirits and of course immediately started tearing into my pants legs and shoes. He was very happy to be home. I feed him 2x daily although he is a bit of a grazer in the morning. I feed him the recommended amount on the Orijen package about 2 1/2 - 3 cups of food at each feeding (usually about 5 actual total cups daily) . I feed at 6:30 in the morning after our walk (about 1/2 mile) and then feed about 6 or 7 in the evening, usually go for a walk around 8pm (about 1-1 1/2 miles), its cooler then here in Texas. Still want advice and input so if there is something else on anyone's mind regarding treatment and prevention I would welcome the sharing


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## Melody Greba (Oct 4, 2007)

Ask your vet to tell you the steps on how to tube him in the event that it happens again and get the necessary tubes to elleviate the gas. Also keep Gas-X on hand.

I've personally never heard of such a young pup, bloating. But if he is predisposed to it, it'll happen again regardless or smaller meals, and other advised precautions.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

You all may think I'm crazy, but when my dog was a pup, I accidently discovered burping the dog after meals.

What I found was after maybe 15-30 following a meal if I put him in a sit, and patted his chest, out came a large burp!

So I'd do this as a routine, he seemed to like it as well, after awhile he'd come and sit in front of me, kinda like reminding me to burp him.

So I don't know, maybe a preventative messure.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Edward Egan said:


> You all may think I'm crazy, but when my dog was a pup, I accidently discovered burping the dog after meals.
> 
> What I found was after maybe 15-30 following a meal if I put him in a sit, and patted his chest, out came a large burp!
> 
> ...


Yep, you are nuts....LOL (just kidding)

I notice that Ash lets out a huge burp after every meal.....


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

>>>I feed him the recommended amount on the Orijen package about 2 1/2 - 3 cups of food at each feeding (usually about 5 actual total cups daily)

does anyone else think this is a large quantaty of food for a 4 month old pup ?

I have never heard of a puppy bloating either 
but i have had 2 dogs torsion , 
one shep and a dobe, 
i tacked the shep and she lived another few yrs never had another issue ,died of heart issues
the dobe we also tacked but he died shortly after sugery , bleeding out


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>I feed him the recommended amount on the Orijen package about 2 1/2 - 3 cups of food at each feeding (usually about 5 actual total cups daily)
> 
> does anyone else think this is a large quantaty of food for a 4 month old pup ?


Good catch Tammy ;-)

Yes, it's way too much food according to the feeding schedule posted here:

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/puppyLargeFeeding.aspx

The 3 cups should be divide in to 2 meals. It doesn't go by age but by weight of the pup.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Matt Grosch said:


> Someone mentioned here that when they treat bloat they can staple the stomach (to the back or something?) to help prevent it in the future, dont know anything about it other than that post but it sounded interesting


Yes, that's the gastropexy. The stomach is sutured to the inside of the body wall so it can still bloat (dilate) but not rotate/twist and trap itself or other organs like the spleen (volvulus). I saw a Great Dane in January who was saved from GDV because he was pexied when he was neutered, so he bloated (it was huge on the radiograph), but it did not go into volvulus like it would have otherwise, which is what will kill the dog. GDV typically affects middle aged adults and above, so I'd suspect there was dilation, but no volvulus in that case. There does seem to be predilection for lines. A good fact sheet on GDV:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=672

Candy, last I asked one of our professors who is board certified in both surgery and emergency/critical care about the Gas X thing cause I was curious too and he was actually dubious that it would help because most dogs that are showing signs are going to be vomiting quite a bit, often non-productively, so the issue is if the tablets actually get to where they need to be and if they won't be thrown back up again. About 6 months ago, my own Rottweiler got into the tub of dog food and ate about 15-20 lbs of EVO Red Meat in one sitting, so was vomiting profusely. I gave her Gas X because I was concerned she'd bloat, but she promptly threw it up and I could see the tablets sitting there with the vomit. Yum. She ended up being okay as I monitored her closely every 10-15 minutes with a tape measure around her belly at the same place after bringing her in.

Anyways, as the only emergency after hours hospital in a city of 100,000+, he sees a decent number and recommended not mucking about with trying to pass stomach tubes and that sort of thing (plus there's a kind of trick to it so you don't go down the trachea or perforate the esophagus), but just getting the dog in as fast as humanely possible, particularly for fluids, because it's reperfusion injury from the dying stomach tissue and cardiac arrhythmias from electrolyte imbalance that usually end up putting the dog into shock and beyond.


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## susan jones (Oct 15, 2008)

I think if I`d had a scare like that......i`d feed raw, do some research, dogs seem to need less water on a raw diet and the food digests (oops) much faster.


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

My Great Danes have been Plexied. Healing time was not much longer than my females spay. Most of the dogs I keep run the risk of bloat. (GSD,Dane,etc) I enforce no water or play/workout 30 min before or after eating, daily food intake is split into two meals, and the dogs are fed in a down. 10 years with high risk breeds - no bloat - so far so good.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Candy, last I asked one of our professors who is board certified in both surgery and emergency/critical care about the Gas X thing cause I was curious too and he was actually dubious that it would help because most dogs that are showing signs are going to be vomiting quite a bit, often non-productively, so the issue is if the tablets actually get to where they need to be and if they won't be thrown back up again. About 6 months ago, my own Rottweiler got into the tub of dog food and ate about 15-20 lbs of EVO Red Meat in one sitting, so was vomiting profusely. I gave her Gas X because I was concerned she'd bloat, but she promptly threw it up and I could see the tablets sitting there with the vomit. Yum. She ended up being okay as I monitored her closely every 10-15 minutes with a tape measure around her belly at the same place after bringing her in.


Twasn't me that posted about Gas X, Maren


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

JOHN WINTERS said:


> All,
> 
> Had a very scary incident with my 4mo old puppy last night, long story short he got bloat luckily no twisting of the stomach so he spent the night in emergency care and is spending the day with the vet under observation and getting xrayd to make sure his stomach is coming back to correct size and location. The vet feels that probably a gastroplexy will be needed since this occured at such a young age. I've spoken to the breeder and there is no familial history of bloat in his bloodlines so she was just as concerned as I. So here are the facts.
> 
> ...



I always have my dogs eat from the ground, no dishes in my house for that reason.


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## JOHN WINTERS (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the comments and advice. One item on the feeding, I was following the Orijen schedule as posted, the difference being projected "adult weight" for a 4mo pup to 90 lbs ( 3 3/4 - 4 1/2 cups) over 90lbs ( 4 1/2 - 5 1/2 cups), I was following the over 90lbs. The cup I use for his food does not hold 8 oz dry ( I measured via my digital kitchen scale, so the term cup is a loose interpretation in my previous email and he was actually only getting in reality 4 actual cups of food split 2x daily which is well within both limits so I presume I wasn't overfeeding him. I also have never restricted a puppy from playing or running or being a puppy after eating but I will start ensuring he has that quiet time now along with restricting water prior to and after eating as the water tub in the back was always accessible. Other than that I am strongly considering the gastropexy when he get's a couple months older unless this is a recurrent issue.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

From my military days through today, we follow a couple of rules.

1. the dog is not exercised or worked, one hour prior to eating.

2. The dog is not exercised or worked, until 2 hours after eating. 

Looking at literally thousands of dogs over the years, bloat and/or torsion was very rare.

David


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I had a problem with my current gsd at 10 mths of age, we had been up the beach on a hot day and he had drunk quite a lot of salt water. He had a good few drinks of fresh water before returning home but on arrival home he blew right up like like an elephant, don't think I had seen such a distended stomach in a dog before, I let it go for a half hour or so and then he exploded out his back end, he wasn't real flash for a while but nothing serious.

Haven't had any problems since, I also don't exercise prior to and after feeding of at least an hour or two, I've heard there is a genetic component likely with bloat, it seems to pop up in certain lines of dogs.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Candy Eggert said:


> Twasn't me that posted about Gas X, Maren


Whoops, meant Melody. My bad! ;-)


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

How frightening for you and your pup!!

My female bloated with torsion. I knew it was in her lines on both sides with mother dying of mesenteric torsion and paternal grandfather dying of bloat w/ torsion. I knew the signs and I took precautions as best I could. SHe was not a sport or working dog. 
We had gone tracking.. after tracking I let her romp in a grassy area. Quite suddenly the grass irrigation sprayer came up and started to water the grass with this fast squirts of water. Sita immediately went to the sprinkler to play and bite the water. I think she got a lot of air with that water. I took her away from sprinkler in short time. I think that was the culprit plus genetics. 2 hours later I recognized the signs and we made it to the ER vet within 1/2 hour. 180 degree torsion very serious. Vet was impressed I caught it so fast. SHe survived.Vet felt it was going to happen no matter what. I had to put her down a few years ago for other health issues. Bloat is always in the back of my mind. 

With working dog and puppy I follow what others have mentioned on this thread. I do use high quality kibble and the older dog is fed raw (so was my dog who bloated). I soak kibble in a splash of water. Dogs rest after eating- in the crate. Sometimes I feel its just being superstitious taking these precautions, but knowing all the symptoms has been critical for me. So many pet owners out there have no idea of the signs and symptoms of bloat. 
Pele my 7 month old puppy is a wateraholic. 
After training, I offer a couple sips of water, walk them, put them in the crate and return to check to see when they are no longer panting and relatively calm and cooled down before I offer more water. No gulping or large quantities of water. I watch them carefully after swimming.
When I travel I find out where the nearest vet hospitals are just in case.
I have considered preventative gastroplexy. This is done with more frequency with Great Danes from what I have heard. Gastroplexy won't prevent the bloat, but it may prevent the torsion.

Good Luck


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

David Frost said:


> From my military days through today, we follow a couple of rules.
> 
> 1. the dog is not exercised or worked, one hour prior to eating.
> 
> ...


I'm wondering if, due to the strict routine of the dogs, this could have helped. After all, you had a varied breed selection?

Sport dog handlers hardly have this "steady" routine?

Would be interesting to know how many sport handlers follow a rigid regime.


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