# Whitehouse secret service dogs



## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

It looks like the first dog disengages as soon as the guy kicks. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152609908711336&id=15704546335


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## John Wolf (Dec 12, 2009)

Never send a Mali to do the job of a GSD. HAHA! Just kidding. Don't know much about that world but I cannot believe that the secret service has an animal in service that won't withstand a kick.


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

After the kick it looks to me like the dog hesitates then is responding to a recall. 

GG


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

Responded to the recall or decided to recall itself?


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Gerald Guay said:


> After the kick it looks to me like the dog hesitates then is responding to a recall.
> 
> GG


 

Small clip to make judgmements, I can understand though without knowing the whole story


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

John Wolf said:


> Never send a Mali to do the job of a GSD. HAHA! Just kidding. Don't know much about that world but I cannot believe that the secret service has an animal in service that won't withstand a kick.



You got that right!!


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

Actually videos can sometimes be misleading so most opinions can only be speculation at best.

GG


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Even if the dog was recalled after the kick, his kick shut that dog down. Wonder if the dog will be hesitant on his next bite, either real or during training...I bet it will.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

And it looks like he punched the next dog right off him as well, and took off running. Would training the dog to fight back, instead of one calm full grip while getting hammered on, create a different ending?


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

John Wolf said:


> Never send a Mali to do the job of a GSD. HAHA! Just kidding. Don't know much about that world but I cannot believe that the secret service has an animal in service that won't withstand a kick.


Two words "Lowest Bidder"


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Regardless, 

It's a shame the dogs quit like this... Training or genetics? We'll never know, I guess...


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Hunter Allred said:


> Two words "Lowest Bidder"


Not always....even if it is the government

I bet it was a PHI Male Mainois


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

Kevin Cyr said:


> Not always....even if it is the government
> 
> I bet it was a PHI Male Mainois


How do you know this ?.............

This are sure PH-1 Mal


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz-Iycjg3VI


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Marcel Winter said:


> How do you know this ?.............
> 
> This are sure PH-1 Mal
> 
> ...



lol, does it upset you? some people just have a little more information than others, sorry 

Never said I did either, take it how you want it....they both were/are


Ive seen plenty of PHI dogs, some good, some sucked, the title just meant that, they got titled, had nothing to do with it being a good dog or not, sad not everyone can see that


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

Kevin Cyr said:


> lol, does it upset you? some people just have a little more information than others, sorry
> 
> Never said I did either, take it how you want it....they both were/are
> 
> ...


 Well I,m curious how you get the information this is a PH-1 dog and not example a certified ringsport Mali ?
thats all do you work for Special Services ?


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

How many dogs get kicked square in the face during training though? Or something similar


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

John Ly said:


> How many dogs get kicked square in the face during training though? Or something similar


I think this is the big thing...a lot of videos I see on YouTube of people training they don't train for the worst case....this is the worst case - you have an intruder, who has no fear in fighting back. There is a few guys I see training for the worst, not sure where he's from but a guy named Sam from the documentary http://www.thek9guardians.com/ has plenty of videos of them training the dogs for worst case.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Rob Maltese said:


> I think this is the big thing...a lot of videos I see on YouTube of people training they don't train for the worst case....this is the worst case - you have an intruder, who has no fear in fighting back. There is a few guys I see training for the worst, not sure where he's from but a guy named Sam from the documentary http://www.thek9guardians.com/ has plenty of videos of them training the dogs for worst case.


Agreed to an extent on this one or you can question so many things...

Titled dog? What do they train for?

Bad Vendor?

Bad Dog?

Bad Training?

Dog not exposed enough?

Not trained hard enough?

What was dog doing just before initial scuffle?

Two dogs are usually protocal for that job.....did they effect one another prior to engagement?

Dog was startled, then looked like he was going to re-attack, but something tells me he was being recalled for whatever reason, but thats me.

So many things you can look at....


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Kevin Cyr said:


> Dog was startled, then looked like he was going to re-attack, but something tells me he was being recalled for whatever reason, but thats me.
> .


The guy pulled up his shirt.... perhaps he was recalled because no weapons were seen in his waist and he was only wearing gym shorts and a t-shirt. A K9 bite is WAY up there on the use of force continuum and the guy was surrounded by like 20 Secret Service personnel.

As for their program....it's top notch. I can speak from first hand experience in knowing their trainers.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I would guess a city police dog gets a lot more action and can fine tune his skills.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm sure it's not a breed thing...Anyone that has trained long enough knows there are good and bad dogs in each breed....Lots of Malis and Gsds plus occassionally rottweilers in the UK doing riot control work in much more stressful environments: Bricks being thrown on them, kicked , punched etc.
It's good though that the video showed that a fast dog does not always equal a strong one.
I think the dog could have been better with training but f==k that guy must have been high on something, He kept punching the second dog repeatedly despite the dog biting him. I shut down when a dog mistakenly nibbles on my finger during obedience training lol:-#


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I would have been ok if he got a little closer to the White House. I'm sure he had good intentions to go through all that trouble. A bouquet of flowers perhaps, maybe even a nice bottle of wine is all he wanted to offer. :twisted:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Breaching the White House security should be met with deadly force. Protecting the President regardless of who it may be at the time should be the #1 security concern. 

What problems would we have now if the first guy a couple of weeks ago to be strapped with C4?!

This isn't about politics. It's about security!

Look at our neighbors to the North. One security guard killed and offender killed.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Who knows. But we could speculate about that too if you like.

And yes absolutely Bob... You said what I was getting at albeit in a rather facetious manner, you just said it differently. Security, should be paramount. Too bad that any and all breaches in security where the White House is concerned aren't all met in the manner you stated.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

Does anyone know who contracts the training for those SS dogs?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

one the poorest quality video clips i've ever tried to watch....

but like all threads this has already morphed a few ways

unfortunately, politics and security IS often mixed together and the more social media is used the more it will crop up
- so at least this comment is thread related 

i have said a few times that until the Security/LE/Mil and any other K9 users learn how to EFFECTIVELY use social media, it will always work against them and make their jobs tougher
- many people out there probably think releasing a K9 is one use of deadly force 

if i get the time ...
- but (( prob won't  ))
i would like to start a thread entitled :

" Effective use of Social Media in Law Enforcement and Security Planning and Applications Involving Canines "

would be a lot more beneficial to many of our professional members than commenting on a sucky short vid clip


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## Leon Sampson (Feb 10, 2011)

Sam is out of the Washington DC metro area. He's a solid guy and trainer. Mike S. knows him as well.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

rick smith said:


> one the poorest quality video clips i've ever tried to watch....
> 
> but like all threads this has already morphed a few ways
> 
> ...



Please don't ban me for this... please edit if needed mods... but I will say this.

Social media has done *NOTHING* but made the pussification of America MUCH MUCH worse. These dogs when trained and handled properly are NOT anywhere near equal to the use of deadly force. In fact, I would be interested to compare the deaths from Tasers vs K9's... 

Social media has played an overwhelming part in the discipline of LEO which is terribly unfortunate.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Rob Maltese said:


> Please don't ban me for this... please edit if needed mods... but I will say this.
> 
> Social media has done *NOTHING* but made the pussification of America MUCH MUCH worse. These dogs when trained and handled properly are NOT anywhere near equal to the use of deadly force. In fact, I would be interested to compare the deaths from Tasers vs K9's...
> 
> Social media has played an overwhelming part in the discipline of LEO which is terribly unfortunate.



Wise words.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

rick smith said:


> one the poorest quality video clips i've ever tried to watch....
> 
> but like all threads this has already morphed a few ways


Ah, here we go with that again. So what? Don't comment then.

As to the last part if you don't like it, why not make your own forum, with your own rules and requirements so you always get a detailed bio, with an introduction video (sans music of course and at the required distance), so you can make sure people don't waste your time and always agree with you.

Speaking of videos, how about putting up something fresh regarding what new project you are working on and tell us about how to properly go about dealing with the problem?

In absence of that, I look forward to reading the thread you probably won't start.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

for good or bad "social media" is here to stay

agree with a lot of the pussification aspect, but i do feel it can and should be used as an effective tool on both sides

when LE ( or any other related agency ) learns how to use it effectively i happen to believe it will benefit all their jobs; not just the ones using K9's. so far, i do not see that happening

that's why i believe it has more value as a thread and that's why i posted ... it's as relevant to the secret service as any other LE related agency

why would a source who obviously is trying to promote their K9's say that a dog wasn't sent because a handler was afraid it might bite the wrong person ???
- dumber than dumb comment imnsho


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I cant remember exactly if ph1 was required for vendor supplied dogs but they had some stringent requirements.

I wouldnt speculate on the video anymore than to say everyone (police, military, ss, any nationality) is on an even playing field when a dog takes a bite on a man. 

As far as policy, I do wish they could shoot sooner with no repercussions. People would know the consequences of their actions. For those that cant understand consequences, it would be a shame, but its needed for security.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

Dave Colborn said:


> As far as policy, I do wish they could shoot sooner with no repercussions. People would know the consequences of their actions. For those that cant understand consequences, it would be a shame, but its needed for security.


This statement couldn't be more accurate...When it becomes more then a slap on the wrist, 3 hots and a cot it will be less likely too occur.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

maybe i wasn't clear but all these comments are in some ways examples of where the power of social media could strengthen security

the guy being interviewed could very easily have said that the guy was damn lucky he wasn't gunned down immediately or permanently DISABLED from a K9 bite, even tho a dog is not considered an application of lethal force
- NOTHING wrong with getting the word out in STRONG terms that lethal force applies when national assets are breached, and them explain to the incredibly stupid people how the president's backyard is a national resource that cannot be breached. Say it enuff times and it won't be nearly as big an issue when it happens
- he shouldn't have said ANYTHING about why and how K9's are or aren't deployed and/or sent :-(
- he should have played down the "fun play/ball drive" aspect of training and emphasized that this type of K9 is trained by being subjected to intense pressure etc.

a zillion other ways to do this in a multitude of social media outlets 
- NO brainer imo

i don't always agree with the way the Israelis handle things but it is never a surprise to the world when they hammer an intrusion on their spaces 

regardless, this subject is VERY close to me and i will never stop tossing in my long winded rants when it comes up


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Kevin Cyr said:


> Small clip to make judgmements, I can understand though without knowing the whole story


whats the story???


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

Dogs are just one step below lethal force. A dog bite is just as good as stabbing someone with a knife. A dog bite can permanently damage nerves. So if the guy shows he had no weapons and was just standing there, in the eyes of the law there are better ways to detain him. Sending a dog on a guy standing still/or not threatening could easily be use of excessive force. 

So there's the slight chance the dog could've been recalled?


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

First dog could have been recalled, after the dude (who should have been plugged right there) shut the dog down.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

John Ly said:


> Dogs are just one step below lethal force. A dog bite is just as good as stabbing someone with a knife.


That's funny. They must be super dogs with 5" fangs.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

John Ly said:


> Dogs are just one step below lethal force. A dog bite is just as good as stabbing someone with a knife. A dog bite can permanently damage nerves. So if the guy shows he had no weapons and was just standing there, in the eyes of the law there are better ways to detain him. Sending a dog on a guy standing still/or not threatening could easily be use of excessive force.
> 
> So there's the slight chance the dog could've been recalled?


I understand what you are saying.... Yes, the dog bite is one step below deadly force on most force continuum, equal with the police baton.

Remember, the Police K9 is subject to the rules of use set by Grahm vs. Connor. First, what was the severity of the crime that the officer believed the suspect to have committed or be committing? Second, did the suspect present an immediate threat to the safety of officers or the public? Third, was the suspect actively resisting arrest or attempting to escape?

You have to apply those three prongs to the incident and determine if the deployment of the k9 was reasonable.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I understand and wish our president's security was more clear cut. Step over this fence....get shot. No matter who he is or his policies or whether i like him or not. He's in the family. He represents our country. He deserves better security and our country should present the hard target most of us are.



Matthew Grubb said:


> You have to apply those three prongs to the incident and determine if the deployment of the k9 was reasonable.


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## Nick Hrycaj (Mar 30, 2014)

I wonder if it becomes more of residential law so to speak. In Colorado as a private citizen you could concievably use your apprehension trained dog to stop someone from stealing or breaking your property. The white house is a residence despite the governmental security detail


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> I understand and wish our president's security was more clear cut. Step over this fence....get shot. No matter who he is or his policies or whether i like him or not. He's in the family. He represents our country. He deserves better security and our country should present the hard target most of us are.


Absolutely agree. Screw playing nice by sending the dogs...pop pop...fence jumper down.


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

An other video ABC news




www.abcnews.go.com/US/secret-service-dogs-battling-white-house-fence-jumper/story?id=26399761


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Watched the video again and again and it seems the dog that got kicked, although it went back, didn't really show any signs of fear more like a NVBK recall lol.....Another thing is these dogs rarely get to work, not as much as regular police k-9s, its not like poeople jump into the white house on a weekly basis


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## Lars Vallin (Jan 17, 2009)

Ben Thompson said:


> I would guess a city police dog gets a lot more action and can fine tune his skills.


Good point Ben. The SS dogs like SWAT dogs are so specially trained to very specific scenarios. Difference is a good urban street K9 constantly runs into situations that are impractical to replicate in training. Thus the dog has to figure out in a moment what will work best from years of " trial and error". Various injuries, near misses etc all motivate a dog to next time do what will ensure success. Also that guy was NOT necessarily on drugs. If I had a dollar for every time a suspect started punching, kicking my PSD just to try and avoid going to jail. 
It is absolute pride to see the genetics and character of your own dog as he unleash hell on a people who violently punch/fight him. God bless the Dutch Shepherd! lol


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> Watched the video again and again and it seems the dog that got kicked, although it went back, didn't really show any signs of fear more like a NVBK recall lol.....Another thing is these dogs rarely get to work, not as much as regular police k-9s, its not like poeople jump into the white house on a weekly basis



Yes after kick the handler give a command recall people " the experts here " have to
learn read and understand the dog body language first .

Some funny comments in this topic judge about a few seconds video
:mrgreen:


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Marcel Winter said:


> Yes after kick the handler give a command recall people " the experts here " have to
> learn read and understand the dog body language first .
> 
> Some funny comments in this topic judge about a few seconds video
> :mrgreen:


Marcel... I agree that a few seconds video is not a lot to base decisions on but sometimes that's all there is. It would be nice if there was audio and we could hear the handler "out" the dog... But we don't, so it's all conjecture and opinion. If you are so sure that the dog responded to the handler's out command, please tell me why the handler issued that command at that moment. What reason (besides the dog's failure) did the handler have for recalling the dog. I can't think of a reason to out the dog at that point, unless it was decided the dog was not engaging as trained and so he was called off... And to me that's a failure.


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

Mark what I can see ( body language ) the dog had doubts to
attack the intruder ,after the kick the handler gives a fast reaction
for a recall.also the dog is on a long leash? (action-reaction) The dog runs back in a *straight* line I don,t know what the 
K9 handler protocol SS are .


Sorry for my bad english not first language


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

Its is not easy for me to explain it in words its my personal observation.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Lars Vallin said:


> Good point Ben. The SS dogs like SWAT dogs are so specially trained to very specific scenarios. Difference is a good urban street K9 constantly runs into situations that are impractical to replicate in training. Thus the dog has to figure out in a moment what will work best from years of " trial and error". Various injuries, near misses etc all motivate a dog to next time do what will ensure success. Also that guy was NOT necessarily on drugs. If I had a dollar for every time a suspect started punching, kicking my PSD just to try and avoid going to jail.
> It is absolute pride to see the genetics and character of your own dog as he unleash hell on a people who violently punch/fight him. God bless the Dutch Shepherd! lol


Yep probably the hardest courage test is the street. I would rather people used dogs then shoot people. I saw a video of a kid who threw his hat over that fence. What if he had gone over or through the fence. One really can't make a black and white statement about security like that. Other then lethal force should be a last resort. Common sense is definitely a necessity for that job.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Ben.

Your thoughts are reasonable when dealing with reasonable people. You are reasonable, so what you say and think is reasonable. Suicide bombers, terrorists and anyone with an agenda of violence in direct contradiction with how we agree to live as a society here in the US, are not reasonable. SS uniform division guys should not have to die to make more clear cut rules of engagement that are easy to follow for both the good guys and everyone else. The only person that benefits is the one making the mistake of crossing the line. Let's just educate the ones that can cross the line erroneously. 

Put yourself inside the fence doing the work and think of someone running up to you. Just because no one has blown up on the white house lawn doesn't mean they won't or that anyone will be able to tell they will before they do. Let's keep the good guys safe and the way of life we were born into here, with clear rules. cross this line. die. Rules are easier to follow if they are clear.




Ben Thompson said:


> I would rather people used dogs then shoot people. I saw a video of a kid who threw his hat over that fence. What if he had gone over or through the fence. One really can't make a black and white statement about security like that. Other then lethal force should be a last resort. Common sense is definitely a necessity for that job.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> cross this line. die. Rules are easier to follow if they are clear.


Simple and necessary rules.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> Let's keep the good guys safe and the way of life we were born into here, with clear rules. cross this line. die. Rules are easier to follow if they are clear.


Excellent. 

Rules are certainly easier to follow when they are clear and made easier yet to comply with when the consequences for breaking them are just as clear. Or as you stated, not negotiable.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> Put yourself inside the fence doing the work and think of someone running up to you. Just because no one has blown up on the white house lawn doesn't mean they won't or that anyone will be able to tell they will before they do. Let's keep the good guys safe and the way of life we were born into here, with clear rules. cross this line. die. Rules are easier to follow if they are clear.


 This is where being in law enforcement sucks. Even though I agree with your line of thought there are other variables that are involved. As we all know, the majority of people who jump the fence have mental issues. If we shoot every one of them then you have a media shitstorm how the government executes the mentally challenged. Crazy folks who want to die by the hand of others will take the opportunity to jump the fence and die of suicide by cop. I believe most of the nutters jumping the fence are hoping for just that. Like my good friend Brian Delos Santos said on Worlds Wildest Police videos...."It was either shoot him, or dog him....so I dogged him." Crazy people don't care how clear, or foggy the rules are. The president's men killing nut jobs is bad business for the POTUS. Too bad the cops are caught in the middle.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

It doesn't suck to be in law enforcement. It sucks to be surrounded by stupid people who inhibit your job. Take them out of the equation before the pres pays with his life. 



http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...efd53e-47ea-11e4-a046-120a8a855cca_story.html

I would bet I could make the white house area in question impenetrable, still leaving it beautiful for visitors. 

Since you are in LE Howard, see if you can get me an invite. I'll only require Air Fare, a hotel, and meals while I am there. 

I may use bacon fat to grease up the bars.....lol.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> It doesn't suck to be in law enforcement. It sucks to be surrounded by stupid people who inhibit your job. Take them out of the equation before the pres pays with his life. .



In a perfect world. Unfortunately you can't avoid stupid people, especially when they're in charge. Cops are just pawns and minions. Tasked with an impossible job and held accountable for actions under bad decision makers.. I think if they shot every fence jumper there'd be a defacto cult of jumpers because the outcome would be clearly known. Would definately save the country some money on mental health and disability payments. Did I say that out loud? Never was one to be PC.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Rob Maltese said:


> I think this is the big thing...a lot of videos I see on YouTube of people training they don't train for the worst case....this is the worst case - you have an intruder, who has no fear in fighting back. There is a few guys I see training for the worst, not sure where he's from but a guy named Sam from the documentary http://www.thek9guardians.com/ has plenty of videos of them training the dogs for worst case.


 
I cant find the videos you are speaking of? Id like to see them


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> Ben.
> 
> Your thoughts are reasonable when dealing with reasonable people. You are reasonable, so what you say and think is reasonable. Suicide bombers, terrorists and anyone with an agenda of violence in direct contradiction with how we agree to live as a society here in the US, are not reasonable. SS uniform division guys should not have to die to make more clear cut rules of engagement that are easy to follow for both the good guys and everyone else. The only person that benefits is the one making the mistake of crossing the line. Let's just educate the ones that can cross the line erroneously.
> 
> Put yourself inside the fence doing the work and think of someone running up to you. Just because no one has blown up on the white house lawn doesn't mean they won't or that anyone will be able to tell they will before they do. Let's keep the good guys safe and the way of life we were born into here, with clear rules. cross this line. die. Rules are easier to follow if they are clear.


Dave I can tell you spent a lot of time in the military.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

call me stubborn 

i still say social media can and should be used to help our security and LE forces more than it should be used to try and point out a "perceived" problem with them

say it enuff times and people may start believing that if you jump the white house fence you shouldn't plan on being able to walk away in cuffs, and you are much more likely to be carried off in a body bag


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Saying you'll be carried off in a body bag is the problem. Shoot them. The word will get out. It also wont matter if they believe or not, it will be so.

In the midst of technology and progression we forget the end goal. Fences mean keep out. Security means keeping those inside secure. 






[/B][/B]


rick smith said:


> call me stubborn
> 
> i still say social media can and should be used to help our security and LE forces more than it should be used to try and point out a "perceived" problem with them
> 
> say it enuff times and people may start believing that if you jump the white house fence you shouldn't plan on being able to walk away in cuffs, and you are much more likely to be carried off in a body bag


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I dont know what that means from your perspective, Ben. I'll take that as a compliment and agreement with my thoughts as i cant see a reasonable man meaning it any other way. From my perspective.





Ben Thompson said:


> Dave I can tell you spent a lot of time in the military.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

understood
but i didn't say you WILL be carried off.....
i said it was "much more likely" 

how it's worded is of course a necessary part
- but if the word NEVER gets out the security assets can always expect backlash from social media inquiries and piss poor videos sent around the world to people who have no clue what they are watching


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

The goal is not to keep people off the whitehouse lawn because it mars the beauty of the grass.
The goal is not to manage people with mental health issues.
The goal is not to discourage backlash from the media.
The goal is not to care what social media does or does not do.

*The goal is to keep the President and the first family safe and in doing so, project the strength and resolve that our country really has.*

From there, we need to move on in the same direction of plain talk to clear up any other confusion in our country.

God Bless the USA!!!!



rick smith said:


> understood
> but i didn't say you WILL be carried off.....
> i said it was "much more likely"
> 
> ...


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> The goal is not to keep people off the whitehouse lawn because it mars the beauty of the grass.
> The goal is not to manage people with mental health issues.
> The goal is not to discourage backlash from the media.
> The goal is not to care what social media does or does not do.
> ...


 
There is really nothing more to say about that topic. Dave covered it beautifully. Im all for winning the hearts and minds of those who hop that fence...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Dave Colborn said:


> *... project the strength and resolve that our country really has.*


I think "the times, they are a'changin"... hopey changey..


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

What happened was, the handlers leash got caught on his weapon, and then the dog was recalled.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't know if you are being serious or not, but that would appear to explain the odd hop that the dog did as he entered the frame. I noticed that it when the video was posted but couldn't figure out what might have caused that. I just assumed he was off lead. Fast moving animals usually retain a planed out top line as they move towards their target. He didn't.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Dave Colborn said:


> The goal is not to keep people off the whitehouse lawn because it mars the beauty of the grass.
> The goal is not to manage people with mental health issues.
> The goal is not to discourage backlash from the media.
> The goal is not to care what social media does or does not do.
> ...



Well said!


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> The goal is not to keep people off the whitehouse lawn because it mars the beauty of the grass.
> The goal is not to manage people with mental health issues.
> The goal is not to discourage backlash from the media.
> The goal is not to care what social media does or does not do.
> ...


Hitting the "like" button!


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

todd pavlus said:


> What happened was, the handlers leash got caught on his weapon, and then the dog was recalled.


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

todd pavlus said:


> What happened was, the handlers leash got caught on his weapon, and then the dog was recalled.


So the kick to the face had nothing to do with it?:roll:


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## Lars Vallin (Jan 17, 2009)

In all fairness a few second poorly lit clip. Maybe dog was recalled after kick maybe not who knows. Sometimes a recall is needed after an initial engagement especially if a weapon might be involved. Appears this guy did not have a weapon but who knows. None of us were there. 

The second dog preformed excellent! Took down the suspect, took the punches without letting go. What more can a handler want? Real life bites are NOTHING like how people imagine. Those that work real world dogs know this fact. Variables will happen that you can't realistically prepare for. The ultimate test of your dog's genetics, character, your knowledge as a owner/handler/trainer.


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