# Raised Feeders??



## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

I have always been of the school that the raised feeders help prevent bloat..Now I read that they can increase more that 100% of causing bloat:-k:-k What is everone opinon??


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Never used raised feeders when I had the 500 dog military kennel, and haven't since. Being careful as to when dogs are fed, relative to when they are worked or exercised has been most benefical. 

DFrost


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## Alan Fielding (Dec 7, 2009)

Hello- I just went through a episode of Bloat with one of my Bouviers, he was fine one minute and 2 hours later he was close to death- one expensive emergency surgery and he is okay . This is what the vet said as INCREASING the risk. Feeding only one meal a day, family history of bloat,eating rapidly,being thin and underweight, moistening dry food,feeding in a elevated bowl,restricting water before and after meals, feeding a dry diet with animal fat as first four ingredients, fearful and anxious temperament, history of aggression toward people and other dogs, being male,older dogs 7 to 12 years. I do not know how accurate this info is but it was what was provided to me by the Vet--- Alan


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I agree with David, as well as most of Alan's post too. Not sure that I agree with the aggression part, and not sure if nerves or sex of the dog would be a factor either. Would like to hear the reasoning on those. 

I am just really careful to feed, water and exercise. Making sure that I keep at least an hour or two (especially after a hard run) in between.....if I get called out on a search and depending on my response time (if it will be more than an hour travel) I will feed and water before I hit the road. Less than that time, I will wait until we either stop searching for a few hours or if the search is over to feed again. 

I also feed good quality food (RAW) or a good quality kibble....grain free most of the time.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Like Alan said, there was indeed a university sponsored study that showed that apparently raised feeders do increase the risk.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

So Maren, what about all the other factors he listed, besides the obvious ones we know????


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

We do not know what is good or bad.

Milk....

Good or bad for humans. There has been millions of studies on that, we do not know. we don't know shit. We think we do, but we do not. Bloat probably does not have shit to do with eating food for all we know.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

James Downey said:


> We do not know what is good or bad.
> 
> Milk....
> 
> Good or bad for humans. There has been millions of studies on that, we do not know. we don't know shit. We think we do, but we do not. Bloat probably does not have shit to do with eating food for all we know.


LOL....BEEF...it's what's for DINNER!! Doesn't have anything to do with cholesterol.....:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Animals in the wild don't have raised feeders...wildbird feeders I see. So how does raising the feeder help prevent it when the food still travels south? Restricting excess activity is something and limiting water intact after training.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> So Maren, what about all the other factors he listed, besides the obvious ones we know????


Yeah, you got me! :lol: I kind of suspect that people with giant breed dogs with deep chests that are prone to bloat (like Great Danes) are more likely to be fed on raised feeders to help orthopaedic issues, so it might just be an incidental finding. I would probably stick with the general advice of don't feed or water excessively 1-2 hours before or after exercise and two or three meals is probably preferable to one larger one. 

They are now suggesting that when pet quality Great Dane owners come in for their neuter/spay to go ahead and gastropexy (tack) the stomach while the abdomen is surgically opened as a preventative measure because the dogs will not be used for breeding anyways. This may be a good thing for pet dog level owners, but may hurt responsible breeders who try keep track of which offspring in their lines are prone to GDVs for future breeding considerations. All I know is I would not feel comfortable ethically offering to gastropexy a dog prophylactically as a preventative and keep the dog intact as a breeding animal as I think it's something that people should be aware of in their lines and try to actively breed out. Just like I wouldn't keep a puppy that had the juvenile pubic symphysiodesis (a relatively new and less invasive solution to puppies showing signs of hip dysplasia) intact for ethical reasons. *[FONT=&quot][/FONT]*


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Maren, I can see that as being one argument. Maybe you can help me with something though. I've had two elective gastropexies performed on my dogs, which were done during a routine spay. My understanding has always been that a gastropexy would not prevent bloat but would greatly reduce or diminish the risk of the much more serious event - volvulus. In such cases and particularly for those who opt to attempt a life saving surgery after the fact, it seems the responsible thing to do as it can substantially reduce the cost and success rate of the surgery. Am I mistaken in my understanding of the role gastropexies play? If not, then do you think that argument legitimately carries much weight?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Yes, I believe you are correct. They do seem to reduce the likelihood of volvulus, but not necessarily bloat (the D in gastric dilation and volvulus) and there are some cases where it can happen again if the stomach is tacked after a GDV event. 



> Several surgical techniques have been used to prevent recurrence of volvulus, and *recurrence rates are similar (5-11%) for all.* Techniques include simple incisional gastropexy, tube gastrotomy, and circumcostal gastropexy. A recent prospective study indicated that the median survival times for dogs that underwent gastropexy was 547 days compared with 188 days for those that did not. The value of pyloromyotomy and pyloroplasty in an effort to promote gastric emptying has not been substantiated. *Medical management alone results in a 75% recurrence rate within a 12-mo period.*


http://merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23305.htm


For pet dogs, I don't think I'd have a problem recommending the prophylactic/preventative gastropexy for dogs who are not going to be adding to the gene pool, though if a breeder is actively trying to see how prevalent it is in their lines, that may interfere with that research some. However, if there was someone with a performance Great Dane (gotta love agility Danes!) or GSD or whatever that had no intention of breeding, but didn't want to neuter their dog until their growth plates were relatively closed at 12+ months of age, I would agree to doing so if we could do a tubal ligation on the females or vasectomy the males. I just would hate for someone to tout that no bloat or hip dysplasia was in a particular stud or bitch's history and their hips looked beautiful, but it was thanks to gastropexy and JPS as I think that's pretty fraudulent.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I have always thought raised feeding dishes increased bloat/chances of GDV because it is an unnatural feeding position. Same as feeding a horse from a haybag can cause un natural wear on the teeth (you will see more hooks and such) feeding a dog with raised dishes allows them to gulp in more air as they eat, adding to the gases already produced by the digestion process. This is how I've understood the argument against raised feeders.

I do agree that the speed at which a dog eats plays an important role, feed multiple meals not just one big one, and let your dog cool after exercise prior to feeding, etc. 

I do laugh though when I see people spending money on dishes that are specially designed to try and keep dogs from eating too fast. I have two super fast eaters and I recently was forced to switch back to kibble, instead of putting rocks in dishes or balls or buying fancy space age plastic dishes I just toss the food in their crates, no bowls. Takes them a while longer to eat when they have to chase each bit into a corner first lol. They get fed 3 times a day so they are not eating large amounts anyway but I also don't have to worry about chewed up bowls. Both of them will put holes in metal dishes so I gave up.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Our Dane breeder said bloat is mostly an older dog issue and in her experience is in part genetic. Dogs with a history of bloat in their lines have a greater tendency to bloat themselves. In 15 years of breeding she's only lost 1 dog to bloat so that's good for us. 

We feed a raw diet,and high quality kibble once a week or so. No raised feeder (for the raw food half the time they lay down to eat anyway). Restrict exercise/excitement before and after eating. Even with high quality kibble, the dogs will plow thru water compared to the days they get raw.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

We actually covered GDV in rounds the other morning and it turns out that yes, it's usually a middle to older adult issue. One of the residents said the youngest dog he had seen it in was a 2 year old. Probably younger reports out in the literature, but yeah, middle aged and on up dogs are the most likely to be affected. I am dead tired and I have surgery emergency on call all night tonight, so here's hoping I don't see any tonight! *knocks on wood*


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Dan Long said:


> Our Dane breeder said bloat is mostly an older dog issue and in her experience is in part genetic. Dogs with a history of bloat in their lines have a greater tendency to bloat themselves. ...


Particularly a first-degree relative (parent, sibling, or offspring) that has bloated --- that Purdue bloat study put the increase of risk (statistically, based on the study) at something around 60%. (It was pointed out how important it is not to breed a dog with a first-degree relative that has bloated.)

Yes, as mentioned, age too was a big common factor, with each year of advanced age increasing whatever that dog's initial statistical risk was by 20%.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Dan Long said:


> Our Dane breeder said bloat is mostly an older dog issue and in her experience is in part genetic. Dogs with a history of bloat in their lines have a greater tendency to bloat themselves. In 15 years of breeding she's only lost 1 dog to bloat so that's good for us.
> 
> We feed a raw diet,and high quality kibble once a week or so. No raised feeder (for the raw food half the time they lay down to eat anyway). Restrict exercise/excitement before and after eating. Even with high quality kibble, the dogs will plow thru water compared to the days they get raw.


The down side to that is a 6-7 yr old Dane is old. The unfortunate facts of very large breeds.


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