# Civil work, video



## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Hi,
Today we ended our regular training with some civil work.
We set up a scenario that could happen to me anytime ..
Just wanted to share for those who're interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK9Y2HP08ms

Regards, Jo


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Nice, thanks for sharing!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Show another stupid video of a "car jacking" and I guarentee it's going to happen. LOL


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Thanks Patrick.
@ Jeff, no probs you don't like it. Each his own.
But with my mal it WILL happen, feel free to give it a try ;-) 

Regards, Jo


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Johan Dekinder said:


> Thanks Patrick.
> @ Jeff, no probs you don't like it. Each his own.
> But with my mal it WILL happen, feel free to give it a try ;-)
> 
> Regards, Jo



I'm curious to know why you seem so sure it WILL happen?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Johan, I am a good guy. I was trained by this organization called the US Marine Corps.

If I need your car, I will shoot you and your dog and take your car.

BUT since I am never ever gonna be a piece of shit like that, your car and yourself are 100% safe from me.

The last thing I want in a car jacking scenario is some stupid ****ing loose dog acting retarded when the guy has a gun to my head.

Mals are really stupid dogs in many ways, and conditioning a dog to get me shot in the head, which is what you are doing is just adding to the many horrible attributes of the Mals.

So yeah, all I see is a guy teaching his dog how to get his owner shot in the head. LOL


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Let me just say that I experienced a certain scenario 3 weeks ago that made me 100% sure that my mal def. will defend me and bite. No matter what.
I do understand Jeff's statement. My 2 gsd's work good too, but here I'm not sure they will.

regards, Jo


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for sharing, Johan. One of the dogs barking sounds like Deja, who I have no doubt would also bite someone in a heartbeat if they tried to get into my car. She's safe in drive thu's now, but let someone approach the car any other time and it's ON.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Jeff, previous posts must have crossed.
Never said you weren't a nice guy ;-)
a) the guy has no gun
b) the crate was closed, so I decided to let the dog go or not
I love this kind of training. I can do the same and start to analyse every attack they do in mondio and say : what the f*ck is the use of this!

Regards, Jo


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

We get "car jacked" in scotland all the time try parking your car for longer than a minute and those traffic wardens are all over you


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I can do the same and start to analyse every attack they do in mondio and say : what the f*ck is the use of this!

Oh so true, but at least the exersizes won't lead to you getting shot in the head.:-o


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I for one liked the video. It's good training and stuff like this happens all the time. I saw the video as a person attacking another and NEITHER had a gun. If the handler had a gun he wouldn't need the dog but this is specific training for the purpose that is intended. Good training.

I do have a question though, How many handlers are bit doing this?
(Refer to other thread.)


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

> but at least the exersizes won't lead to you getting shot in the head


But you don't read Belgian newspapers Jeff. Every week you have a deadly shotgun accident in some mondio or ring club ;-)  

take care, Jo


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So you are saying that in Belgium, it is kind of like Monty Python's Twit race, episode 27 I think.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Jeff, not into tv.. sorry.
I received a good deal of positive comments incl. usefull training tips. Some as you find it nothing. I can live with that.

Thanks, Jo


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Johan Dekinder said:


> But you don't read Belgian newspapers Jeff. Every week you have a deadly shotgun accident in some mondio or ring club ;-)


Touché ! :lol:


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

I thought it was genetic that only British folk could appreciate Monty Python haha


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

personally, i love monty python, and have raised my children to appreciate him also. and i live in the MIDDLE of the US. where it's "sunny" haha


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

type into youtube "chewing the fat" see if you can understand that.. oh btw i liked the video


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Any dog that does what you want of it in training is good to me regardless of what its about, and what does Jeff care if you get shoot in the head?.. it aint his head. 
 Was that van a Mercedes?


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

I had a chortle when i read these two words together "Belgium" & "violent" haha come to the most violent place in Europe


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Jo, if the decoy was wearing an oversized hat and some clown pants Jeff would've got it :-\" 

The video was nice and I know this isn't possible, but on the internet or in person I would have to see a dog actually bite someone before I would believe it to be true.

You can see the dog is sport trained by the targetting.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That is exactly my thoughts on that kind of training. Clown shoes.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> :-\"...You can see the dog is sport trained by the targetting.


The (hidden) sleeve arm looked to be the "first available" bite, so it was hard for me to see a targeting issue, per se. If I was the decoy, I'd have the arm presented right at the kennel door too, and would worry that the dog might push through for the leg or center mass. Looks like fun training, though (again I'd be nervous about timing, and presentation/targeting). I correspond with a guy in Belgium who trains for Mondio and "reality"/K9. I would think that trainers and decoys from Mondioring (and Belgian Ring) would come up with great ideas for training PPD's. I imagine there's more overlap... :-k


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chad Byerly said:


> The (hidden) sleeve arm looked to be the "first available" bite, so it was hard for me to see a targeting issue, per se.


That's one of the things I don't get about any protection type of video, the bite is almost always pushed right into the dogs mouth and you really don't get to see what the dog would do if a choice were there.

If it was a real situation I wouldn't think the assailant would be offering up anything to the dog, I could be wrong though.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

He would offer up a "9" to the head most likely.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Thanks for the different replies everybody.

@ Chris, no , the van is only an Opel  ;-) 

When training civil work we never use a hidden sleeve, only a velcro and some "bandages" over it. Some people in Holland even use newspapers. The rest of the body is unprotected.
Than a sweater, jacket, whatever.. Not every dog will do this.
Therefore it is very important that everybody is awake ;-), and that there is a very good communication between both decoy and handler.

Thanks, Jo


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

I heard about a seminar (police K9) where a Dutch guy wrapped his arm with newspapers...but wouldn't take a bite my friend's dog. He gave some reason, but I think he was gonna feel too much of a chomp from this part-pony Mal. So, do the dogs you train target the forearm? Or do you wrap the upper arm too and hope the shoulder or armpit isn't bit? And do you train legs at all? I'm intrigued.

"...it is very important that everybody is awake







, and that there is a very good communication between both decoy and handler."

Wow, you don't mean maybe! #-o 

Do your dogs come from Belgian Ring and take the forearm when/because it's presented?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have used the newspaper on a couple of dogs. If you get the right dog, you get holes.

You said the van was an opel??????? We had a car called the opal that is a collectors item now. Had these cool headlights that you turned over yourself with a handle. People took out the little engine in these cars and went way over the top with some of the 8 cylinder engines. Good times.

I still think in that situation, you were done. why wrestle with someone your size ??????

Why wouldn't the guy just slam the dogs head in the metal crate door?????

Clown shoes.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

My mal is most of the time trained on the full suit (see f.e. some other training videos of my dogs if you want). She bites biceps, triceps, forearm, leg .. often what the nearest by..
Civil we only do forearm but not with every dog. A dog that f.e. "plays piano" on a sleeve will never be allowed to do this -> too risky.
The dog has to have a v good "out" as the decoy can't hold the bite for a long time of course.
Normal training with my mal is based on knpv (also see vids if you like).

My 2 gsd did schutz before, so they're only on the sleeve. Next gsd will be trained same way as the mal.

Jeff, you're okay ;-) O 

Hope this answers some of the questions.

Jo


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks Johan. I appreciate the information, and will check your other videos.


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

clown shoes haha

clowns are evil


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