# prong colloars where to get



## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

a "pointy" one.... by that I mean "sharpened".... does anyone make them already sharpened or is it all a diy?

thanks,
t


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

tracey delin said:


> a "pointy" one.... by that I mean "sharpened".... does anyone make them already sharpened or is it all a diy?
> 
> thanks,
> t


Why? The design isn't to cut, but to pinch. Hence the name ------ I don't understand what sharpening the points would do, other than draw blood.

DFrost


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Just curious O

Not really posting for debate or discussion... if you really want to know why Im asking, feel free to PM me. :wink:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

It was an open question. I'm not ashamed of asking it. Never claimed to be the smartest dog trainer in the world. I was just really curious.

DFrost


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Pm sent... :wink:


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## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

I've heard that they are called spiked collars and that the french use them..... don't know how true it is.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I'm pretty ignorant too on the use of sharpened prong collars, when would you use them and why?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

T: diy on a stainless steel prong.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Get the barbed type and test it on you own bicep to insure the proper penitration so as to allow the endocarditis to have a good entrance to your body. When you need a heart transplant you will know you have the correct method to at least kill yourself.

Peta can recommend a few suppliers.

[-X


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

DIY with a beltsander or grindstone on a prongcollar but you can also buy a spiked collar instead of the DIY project.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

This is retarted


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> This is retarted


What we might have missed is the collar is for reverse on the dogs neck, prongs pointed outward. Just one of those real odd requests.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> What we might have missed is the collar is for reverse on the dogs neck, prongs pointed outward. Just one of those rear odd requests.


 
I don't think so.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> What we might have missed is the collar is for reverse on the dogs neck, prongs pointed outward. Just one of those real odd requests.


 
That’s just as retarted


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> This is retarted


Do you mean retarded?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

We had this conversation before I like it with a “t” it rolls out of my mouth better. You can be retarded if you want. But to me you are a retart, t-t-t-t


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> We had this conversation before I like it with a “t” it rolls out of my mouth better. You can be retarded if you want. But to me you are a retart, t-t-t-t


Why post a topic you are not prepared to discuss? Taboo ?? Why post then ??


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> We had this conversation before I like it with a “t” it rolls out of my mouth better. You can be retarded if you want. But to me you are a retart, t-t-t-t


Chris,

I have no interest in "what rolls out of your mouth better"
TMI lol


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Im with you, the persons a retart regarding the sharpened prong, unless they bring up a reasonable use. I was talking about a retart/ retard conversation. What one flows better for you?


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> That’s just as retarted


 I agree, retarded. Dog fighters do this when out banging.

Just trying to understand the original request.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Chris,
> 
> I have no interest in "what rolls out of your mouth better"
> TMI lol


You know it’s the “t” it would kill you to admit it though. Almost as bad as admitting doggy kung fu is real serious shit. You silly sport person


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> You know it’s the “t” it would kill you to admit it though. Almost as bad as admitting doggy kung fu is real serious shit. You silly sport person


Chris 

My little sport dogs aren't "real" enough to do doggy Kung Fu
Will my dogs get better if I drink lots of Budweisers or wear a cowboy hat and American Flag shirt? ;-)


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> You know it’s the “t” it would kill you to admit it though. Almost as bad as admitting doggy kung fu is real serious shit. You silly sport person


Now I get it, doggy kung fu, only for wheel trayners. LOL pls continue and retart the disgustyn.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> I agree, retarded. Dog fighters do this when out banging.
> 
> Just trying to understand the original request.


You're a shit liar and an even worse deflector !


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Chris
> 
> My little sport dogs aren't "real" enough to do doggy Kung Fu
> Will my dogs get better if I drink lots of Budweisers or wear a cowboy hat and American Flag shirt? ;-)


LMFAO :lol:


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> You're a shit liar and an even worse deflector !


tank yu


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> tank yu


Welcum!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> I'm pretty ignorant too on the use of sharpened prong collars, when would you use them and why?


Too many questions....
They're used on the handler. When folks don't use motivational style training, beat their animals up to make them work b/c the pieces weren't introduced in a smaller fashion, the handler gets the sharpened PRONG job, not the dog!!! \\/


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

I find this so interesting.... how such blank statements are made...

So Im curious... Do you not use corrections? A pinch collar? an ecollar?What are your thoughts then if someone uses an ecollar or regular pinch on a sensitive dog vs a higher level of stim or sharpened pinch on a dog that barely notices? I am not talking injuries, punctures, etc... Does the method and level of correction not directly correlate to the specific dog and lesson to be learned or do you use the exact same for every dog?

For the record I generally use alot of motivational methods, teach in small pieces, and I have never "beaten" a dog.... :roll:

t


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Why? The design isn't to cut, but to pinch. Hence the name ------ I don't understand what sharpening the points would do, other than draw blood.
> 
> DFrost


They don't even do that - unless you use it wrongly - the dog reacts at the needlle shart points pretty quickly - no need to draw blood :grin:


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## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

Will your helper be putting the sharpened prong on you? If a dog is dulled to sensation enough to "have" to use a sharpened prong (OMG I can't believe i even typed those words)........ I have an idea, take your dog to the vet and have his K9's sharpened to a point, better yet if he has titanium implants then get those sharpened. Hopefully he will have enough balls to nail you right after you nail him with a sharpened prong collar. Even playing field. WTF????? Seriously?????


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

My dog would never bite me …. he doesn’t take corrections personally (sometimes I wish he did) and I would never give him one that was unfair (didn’t learn from) anyway. After reading some of your previous posts, I do however understand where you’re coming from, and if I had a dog that shut down from a prong collar I would probably say the same. Esp since you also posted you felt about the same prior to using the ecollar. So I do get your perspective, but sometimes correct use and exposure can make a world of difference in ones perspective. For more reading on its use there was an entire thread on the subject if you search, pages long.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

long time ago, a guy I trained with used the sharpened prong collars- his dogs learned the lessons very quickly and looked really nice....but I personally would not, could not use one on my dogs.[-X


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## Dominique Domogala (Nov 16, 2010)

don't SHARPEN the iron models that are on the market ! you will injure your dog .

i make my own prong collars ( brabanders ) or called spiked collar . this is something else then an iron one .


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Dominique Domogala said:


> don't SHARPEN the iron models that are on the market ! you will injure your dog .
> 
> i make my own prong collars ( brabanders ) or called spiked collar . this is something else then an iron one .


any pics?


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## Dominique Domogala (Nov 16, 2010)

sorry no pics . but the prong collar just looks likes an ordinary leather dog collar . 

you won't notice it if you don't know


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Dominique Domogala said:


> sorry no pics . but the prong collar just looks likes an ordinary leather dog collar .
> 
> you won't notice it if you don't know


Are you talking about something like this?
http://www.neilsnet.com/archives/collars/jasa.html


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## Dominique Domogala (Nov 16, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Are you talking about something like this?
> http://www.neilsnet.com/archives/collars/jasa.html


 
yes , looks likes the picture above . but the spikes are not the same , and my collars don't bend up or down . i use strong chrome leather and 2mm thick polyetheleen


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Yeah I definitely am not trying to hurt the dog lol. Just make it more seamless and effective at the same time. On another post following this one, or maybe it was in a PM, I got some very detailed instructions on how to sharpen yet keep it blunt if that makes any sense. 

Thanks though,
t


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

The only way to really injure the dog is to pull like hell on a prong collar that is not sharpened!! By the time the dog feels anything, his inner neck will be injured. X-Rays have shown this.

A correctly sharpened prong collar will pull the dog to attention much quicker! But, will call him to attention quicker than injury will allow.

The Europeans use sharpened prong collars, not to injure the dog, but to call him to reason without injuring him.

Switzerland is not allowed to use a prong collar.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> A correctly sharpened prong collar will pull the dog to attention much quicker! But, will call him to attention quicker than injury will allow.
> 
> The Europeans use sharpened prong collars, not to injure the dog, but to call him to reason without injuring him.


 
With all due respect Gillian, that sounds like a load of bollocks!

Sharpened prongs are used for greater control are they not, and yes they can and do injure the dog, I'm sure Dick confirmed that. Any tool in the hands of an inexperienced idiot can injure a dog I'm sure, just as I am sure when you sharpen the cutting edge, the margin for error is diminished so to speak.

I am using my imagination here, and my brain.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Why bollocks Maggie??

Most Europeans have used and use sharpened prongs - the idea being, the sharpened prong draws the dog quicker to attention than the blunt prong - the blunt prong needs a tougher draw and can cause inner injuries to the neck.

If you can prove scientifically that the blunt prongs are less injurious than the sharpened ones, I will be interested.

Otherwise, I call your post bollocks!!

When we were allowed to use prong collars, I checked my dogs' necks out regularly - slight to no scratches were apparent compared to inner neck injuries caused by heavy handed blunt prong collar users.

Don't make me out to be an ill-treater of dogs.

BTW just a thought - have YOU ever used either????


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Why bollocks Maggie??
> 
> *Because* *a spade is a spade* .
> 
> ...


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Isn't it about time that we all resisted from criticising other handlers' methods of training, i.e. e-collar, prong, sharpened or not, on this forum?

For me the "tool" isn't the issue. the use of it by the handler is. As far as I know, most of the handlers on here are responsible handlers, and weigh the pros and cons of using certain methods. 

Do not forget that some dogs cannot only be contained by light corrections. It is a grievious mistake to assume that all dogs can be corrected by a tap on the head or by distraction (yikes - how I hate this inconsequence on the part of the handler).

Our younger GSD only resorts to strong correction - i.e. when something banal as using the rake in the garden. I use what I have to, and am not answerable to anyone.

If we want to carry on with dog sports, the only thing is that dog sport handlers stick together and don't beef about something they assume, but do not really understand.

When thieves fall out........


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

It is important to remember, as Gillian just pointed out that not all dogs can be trained with the use of light corrections only.

It is up to us as their handlers to be able to read them and correct according to the level that they need for the corrections to be effective. Effective being the behaviour you are correcting, stops. It is no benefit to the dog to be giving it numerous light pops on the leash with the dog continuing the repeat the undesirable behaviour, all you are doing in that case is teaching the dog to ignore you and actually cause it to become “numb” to that level of correction, so in time you will have to increase them. So in fact it is better to use 1-2 more effective corrections so as the dog responds properly you can then reward them, making it more fair for the dog. Keep it black and white for the dog, and the dog needs to understand that by listening to you it can make the correction stop, first in obedience without distraction, then increase the levels of distraction you bring in and then finally teaching the same principle in the protection work, when the dog is in a much higher drive. To expect a dog to go from OB right to protection without teaching him how to avoid a correction is unfair.

Some dogs are ok on a flat collar or fur saver and some will need a prong collar, and maybe some just your tone of voice will do the job, but rather then getting focused on what tool you are using, you need to start looking at how the dog is responding to the correction and use what you need for that individual animal to listen and obey on the first command. 
Only the dog can tell you what is too hard, or not enough as far as correction is concerned..


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>


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## patricia powers (Nov 14, 2010)

i buy car insurance and hope i don't have an accident. i buy health insurance and hope i don't end up at the hospital. when i have used a prong collar, it is like insurance - hope i don't need to use it. hopefully, the presence of the prong collar is enough to remind the dog to behave.  my prong collar of choice is actually two tiny prong collars hooked together plus or minus a few links for correct fit. i find that the larger link collars are difficult to get a correct fit, but the tiny ones are perfect. having more than twice as many prongs, distributes the pressure better and requires much less pressure to get the dog's attention. a light weight lead, held between 2 fingers is usually plenty of correction. a full hand or a sharp yank with this tiny prong collars is way way tooooo much. i don't know if anyone else uses them, but i think they are more effective and much more humane.


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