# I hate free roaming dogs! ! !



## kevin holford (Apr 11, 2009)

Me and GloK went for a walk one day. We live in the mountain and walk down to the hard road that ones along the base of the mountain; no side walks. So we're walking up the road and all of a sudden here comes two goldens and an Australian Cattle Dog full speed. They came out into the road. I remember telling GloK, "Here we go buddy." The ACD was first, he headed straight for GloK. I stepped in front and gave the ACD a front kick, he jumped back then went around me and straight at GloK. Well, bad move on the ACD's part. GloK grabbed heim by the side of his face. He had almost half his head in his mouth. All I heard was the ACD screaming and GloK wasn't letting go. In the mean time one golden came straight for me, he got my shin on the side of his head and the both of them ran back to their yard. GloK still hasn't let go of the ACD and is giving him the death shake. I had to pick GloK up with his prong to out the ACD. He finally let go, I thought the ACDks eye was going to be hanging from its socket. The owner came running out and was apologizing. I was not very happy and let her know. If it had been the other way and that ACD was latched onto my boy, the Kel Tec .380 would of came out. In Pa you can use any force to protect yourself and property from loose dogs.

I hate careless owners.


----------



## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

agree with you 100%- I know we all have stories like that- irresponsible owners....hate them..hope you weren't injured badly. For that reason, I won't exercise my dogs off our property, I am lucky we have 5 acres to play on. 

when we lived in West Palm we had a neighbor who let his Pit run free, everyday he would come onto our property and fence fight with our dogs who were contained in their kennel area ...which would cause all of our dogs to get fired up, and insight fights....anyway after multiple times of telling him to get his dog off our property- we told him, next time we are just going to shoot the dog....well dog comes back, my husband went out with his glock, and fired into the ground,...dog hightailed it, but the owner came running....hoping we didn't kill his dog....told him that was his last warning...he never let his dog out of his yard again loose. \\/


----------



## Kevin Cramer (Jan 26, 2008)

Sounds like a fight scene from a movie.


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

you named the topic wrong 

its not the hate for the unleashed dog, dog cant help it when its owner is a total and utter ignorant ****tard regardless if its a nice fluffy pet with good manners or a totaly mean bastard that goes for dogs and people.

there are leashes for a reason and laws to keep them on a leash as well...blame the owners and hate them


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Welcome to my world...

Shit like that happens almost daily here. Sometimes 3-4-5-6 in ONE DAY!...

Luckily they are almost always little ankle biters here, I always string her up and handle it, she has been bitten several times.

I do not let her engage, because I don't want any hassles, and I don't blame the dogs...

If It was a big enough dog, I am not sure what I would do...I probably should start carrying mace or something...A neopolitan mastiff came into the street last night, she was only a year or so old, and the owner did grab her, this is the second time that neo has charged out into the street at us.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

People around here usually keep their dogs in tow these days because if they are loose, they will end up here because someone is always coming tnto or going out of heat. I know I will collect all the males......and they know I will be showing up at their door. Butted heads with a gal down the road for several years over her loose dogs. Finally her akita came running after the truck, down hill, couldn't stop and slid far enough to get a leg broke under a tire. The had a fence put up. Their next door neighbors dog got run over down on the main road. Another neighbor lost his male dobe when he came onto the property and jumped Higgins when he was 6 1/2 mo old. Last dog he ever jumped. That dog had killed three of the other neighbors dogs right in ther own yard. There was two rotties and a rottie mix running loose. Haven't seen them since they killed a neighbors 3 sheep. Another guy moved in a road over that used to have two real nice blue ticks he let roam....I saw them both laying on the side of the main road going to town one day. To bad to because they were really nice dogs.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I live in the country. In my area there are cattle, sheep and goats. This is the season for calves, lambs and kids. A free roaming dog around here has a very short life span.

DFrost


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

David Frost said:


> I live in the country. In my area there are cattle, sheep and goats. This is the season for calves, lambs and kids. A free roaming dog around here has a very short life span.
> 
> DFrost


Yes, same here. Not to mention the high rate of Parvo here due to the lack of care the rez dogs get/don't get. 

If your dog is free roaming and skirts the edge of our property, I leave them alone, but if they come onto the property, they are dispatched. Doesn't happen very often as we are far enough away from where the dogs come from. 

Did have some mountain lion tracks in the driveway the other day......hope he was just passing through.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Sounds like GloK rocks...
The reason states have dog laws and owners pack heat...:x
PPD at his best!


----------



## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

that's most probably because their last meal was not sheep meat but some lead for added minerals...



Don Turnipseed said:


> There was two rotties and a rottie mix running loose. Haven't seen them since they killed a neighbors 3 sheep.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> Yes, same here. Not to mention the high rate of Parvo here due to the lack of care the rez dogs get/don't get.
> 
> If your dog is free roaming and skirts the edge of our property, I leave them alone, but if they come onto the property, they are dispatched. Doesn't happen very often as we are far enough away from where the dogs come from.
> 
> Did have some mountain lion tracks in the driveway the other day......hope he was just passing through.


I was deer hunting when I was in SD and in a beautiful spot. Early in the morning, across a small draw. I was on one side watching the draw when I noticed movement on the ledge across from me. I put my scope on the spot and watched and watched. A mountain lion came into the clearing, sniffed the air and kind of stretched. It was really a neat scene. I watched it through my scope, it was probably only 2, maybe 300 yards across the draw, but in the clear. I had no desire to shoot, as I enjoyed watching it. I'll never forget that hunt. Have you, by any chance, ever heard of the Jungs? They are, or at least were then, east of Rapid City, can't remember the name of the area. They have a pretty big spread. 

DFrost 

DFrost


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

David Frost said:


> I was deer hunting when I was in SD and in a beautiful spot. Early in the morning, across a small draw. I was on one side watching the draw when I noticed movement on the ledge across from me. I put my scope on the spot and watched and watched. A mountain lion came into the clearing, sniffed the air and kind of stretched. It was really a neat scene. I watched it through my scope, it was probably only 2, maybe 300 yards across the draw, but in the clear. I had no desire to shoot, as I enjoyed watching it. I'll never forget that hunt. Have you, by any chance, ever heard of the Jungs? They are, or at least were then, east of Rapid City, can't remember the name of the area. They have a pretty big spread.
> 
> DFrost
> 
> DFrost


I think I have heard the name, but do not know them personally. 

We have SO many pheasant right now that I am sure he was feasting before moving on. Have some bald eagles in the area now too. They are beautiful to watch. 

If ya ever want to hunt again, the training facility is doubling as a hunting lodge starting this year. Have 6 hunts booked so far for pheasant.  

Going to take Isai prairie dog hunting in June when he gets here, that should be fun. I think he might bring his son along this time.


----------



## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Legally you may have been right, but the dogs attacked because you and Glok started it. I've seen this before... dog runs out to meet a dog and handler. Usually the handler shlts himself first, and his dog picks up on it speed of light. Now the strange dog approaching without malice reads the reaction and realizes it just ran into a sh|tstorm. Guess what? It does and you get all the crap that happens. If your own dog isn't dog/animal aggressive, and you're not scared of dogs approaching you, it would be exceptionally rare to encounter loose dogs that attack offensively. I'm not saying that you're legally outside your right, just that it was in your control to make this go completely differently.

The owner of the loose dogs is liable. I've had three of them approach me, my puppy and my child like that. I hated it too because the risks I had to deal with for which the owner was entirely responsible, but nothing went wrong. I'm not blaming you for defending yourself and your dog.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Bart Karmich said:


> Legally you may have been right, but the dogs attacked because you and Glok started it. I've seen this before... dog runs out to meet a dog and handler. Usually the handler shlts himself first, and his dog picks up on it speed of light. Now the strange dog approaching without malice reads the reaction and realizes it just ran into a sh|tstorm. Guess what? It does and you get all the crap that happens. If your own dog isn't dog/animal aggressive, and you're not scared of dogs approaching you, it would be exceptionally rare to encounter loose dogs that attack offensively. I'm not saying that you're legally outside your right, just that it was in your control to make this go completely differently.
> 
> The owner of the loose dogs is liable. I've had three of them approach me, my puppy and my child like that. I hated it too because the risks I had to deal with for which the owner was entirely responsible, but nothing went wrong. I'm not blaming you for defending yourself and your dog.


Bart, I can agree with your synopsis of what happens in some maybe even most cases. I would have to disagree that it is exceptionally rare that a loose dog will attack offensively..

If you are talking a homeless dog, with no territory to protect, sure. 

In this instance maybe...but I have seen many DA ACD's. IF the ACD considered that part of the trail HIS territory, I doubt it was caused by what you are proposing.

I walk my dog every day. Dogs that charge out of their houses, busting the door open, and run into the street barking, or fly out of their yards charging and barking, are not coming to greet you in a friendly manner. They are either territorial, or just DA. Some dogs that are territorial view anything that they can see, everyday, as their territory, this includes the sidewalk, the street, across the street, down the street.

There are also many loose dogs that will "challenge" a dog, with posture, eye, piloerection etc. with out flat out coming to attack. 

To say HE caused the situation, because it is *exceptionally rare* that a loose dog will be offensive is not what I see on a daily basis.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

"Legally you may have been right, but the dogs attacked because you and Glok started it. I've seen this before... dog runs out to meet a dog and handler"

If I'm on my property, or at least not on the owner of the dog's property, the dog rushes me and, in my experience, I feel a fight or a bite it about to ensue, it's a dead dog. I am rarely unarmed, a decent shot, not prone to panic.

DFrost


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Talking about loose dogs, loose dogs which I have encountered out and about who were not close to their home were very seldom if ever a problem.

It was something I learned as a child and have come across it many many times over the years. We used to have a very dog aggressive black lab which my mother used to let out very early doors years ago. I was up the crack of dawn one day and had ventured down the town where I saw our black lab and a half dozen other dogs all without an owner in site, hanging out by the butchers. Peacefully, awaiting scraps whilst the butcher was getting ready to open for the day.

I've had bad experiences too obviously, but there was always an owner or a territory very close by.


----------



## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

Carry a Hot Shot cattle prod. it has different length shafts too so get one that fits your style. I agree with Dave in being about to defending yourself and your property since I'm rarely not packing but not everyone has that perk of the job. Light them up like a Christmas tree if they get close. The green one is rechargeable. Its a tad pricey at around $175 but worth it. No drama of a gun shot, your not actually injuring the dog, just sending a powerful message.


----------



## kevin holford (Apr 11, 2009)

The ACD most definitely was aggressive. This was not a "hey let's check these guys out" charge. GloK is not dog aggressive. Usually a loud "No" or something will stop or slow not so aggressive dogs, didn't work this time. 

Trust me, I get chased all the time on my Mtn bike and I've already shot dogs at work.

I'm just glad did a good pit bull impression and got the upper hand; he still seems fine with other dogs.

If the dogs are not on THEIR property, they are fair game to be punted or shot; zero tolerance.


----------



## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

David Frost said:


> I live in the country. In my area there are cattle, sheep and goats. This is the season for calves, lambs and kids. A free roaming dog around here has a very short life span.
> 
> DFrost


The farm I live on now is the first place I have ever lived where I have not ever seen a loose dog. I suspect the reason for that is mainly what David has said. Probably that and the fact that there are not many dogs that are strictly pets. 

Sounds like GloK can take care of himself though.


----------



## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

kevin holford said:


> If the dogs are not on THEIR property, they are fair game to be punted or shot; zero tolerance.


I used to think that way. When I had the puppy I almost got myself a sjambok to dispatch strays. With correct technique, they can be used to easily dispatch an untrained man with a 38 peashooter too. Then I studied further and I learned the art of "figh-ting wid-out figh-ting." My dog knows it too.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

When charged, I see NO reason to second guess what the person or animal will do! A fast read of the dog's body language tells lots, then seconds later you brace for the bite or boot the hell out of it.

Keeping your dogs under control and off the streets, the reason most states have animal control laws. Now if this were a little kid walking, what do you think the kid would do and how would the herding dog react?!!!#-o


----------



## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

Howard Gaines III said:


> When charged, I see NO reason to second guess what the person or animal will do!


Can I get a video of your dog on a face attack? I just don't want to second-guess.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I don't normally walk my dogs, but, I have had them on leash at the lake on occassion. Been in the situation because of those that think it's ok to have their dogs loose a couple of times. I just step behind my dog so I don't get bit. Surprising how fast people can go from laughing to getting their dog on a leash.


----------



## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I don't normally walk my dogs, but, I have had them on leash at the lake on occassion. Been in the situation because of those that think it's ok to have their dogs loose a couple of times. I just step behind my dog so I don't get bit. Surprising how fast people can go from laughing to getting their dog on a leash.


I can imagine their speed when they see the mouthful of teeth in the Airedales....LOL


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

LOL and the dog that owns those teeth trying to drag me over to get their dog.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bart Karmich said:


> Can I get a video of your dog on a face attack? I just don't want to second-guess.


With YOUR skills and questions Bart, step up and sign a release of liability...
My guess, you don't work or read K-9 body language much.](*,)


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

We live in a little village in little old Switzerland.

At the moment there is compulsory lead control in or near the forests because of the deer setting their young. Most people groan about it and some ignore it.

I always have mine on a long line which I can lengthen or shorten as needs be - no flexi!!! The dogs are either "Fuss" or "Stay by" (da bleiben!!). The lead is always well held but never tightly held!!
I have often had to hang my dog up because another has approached it. A little one, which would have maybe been a goner had my dog just given it a lesson in manners and larger ones in an attempt to avoid a fight.

We have a number of owners that fit Beat Karmich's bill - ""he won't hurt him" which I answer with "yeah, but mine might hurt him".

I once encountered a GSD owner (there's not much wrong with GSDs - it's the owners!!). I had a 70 kg Newfoundland on the lead who was lead obedient. However, as we passed each other, the GSD reared up towards us and the Newfoundland, guessing an attack on me - pushed him into the bushes and luckily I didn't lose hold of the lead, so was able to call Ben back into control. A few days later, the owner who had been carrying a large stick, was talking to a neighbour when he saw me and said "our dogs had a bit of a tiffle the other day".

Pride goes before fall!!

So Bart, don't tell me all dogs approach others with a white flag!!


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Gillian Schuler said:


> So Bart, don't tell me all dogs approach others with a white flag!!


 
Waiting for the white flag with the paw print in the middle, Don't Tread on Me!


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'll press you into the ground if I have to  all 5 foot of me!!


----------



## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

I never implied that all dogs approach with a white flag. What I implied was that a fight with an oncoming dog can be avoided, but not if your first response is to kick and bite it. Unless the dog is performing a trained behavior, it is your reaction to the approach that determines what the dog does. I cannot believe that dog trainers of all people see a dog that approaches entirely under its own volition as anything but a creature whose behavior can be shaped, molded and directed. I do not use kicking, striking or biting the dog in my training.

To be clear, I already assented that it is the dog's owner who is responsible for it's training and actions and because the person being charged could be a helpless woman or child there is no excuse for the negligence of the owner.

Howver, negligence happens and we have no reason to be helpless or to resort to kicking, biting or shooting. Hopefully the person reading this will think of something more clever the next time they're approached.

Again, I am not condemning the person that defends themselves or their dog with force. I'm just saying that when the assailant is an untrained dog, it's usually easier to prevent a fight than it is to win one.


----------



## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

I personally do not tolerate stray dogs attacking me or my property in public. I have on one occasion killed a dog that was about four feet on the wrong side of his gate. Its owner came out acting the ass. I politely asked him if he would like to have some of what I gave his mutt. I don't know why, but suddenly it wasn't that big a deal that I shot his dog anymore. If a person can't or won't train their animal and can't or won't keep it contained, they should not be allowed to keep it.
But what the hell do I know.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Even well trained dogs are not exempt from screwing up. I got a call last night from the trainer that has Cowboy, BlackJacks brother. When he bought the dog I told him what phases to watch for and he is about 2 now and instead of going to other dogs and wanting to play, he is showing a serious side and bumping them with his shoulder and pushing them around because he is maturing. No growling or anything just trying his wings. I told Dan he will get over that when he realises he doesn't have to do it. Then he will get real aloof and just look at other dogs with distain...unless they are looking for a fight.


----------

