# interesting e-mail



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Hopefully this works.

Denver Snow vs Louisiana







THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A MOMENT.



Denver Post:



This text is from a county emergency manager out in the central part
of 
Colorado after todays snowstorm.



WEATHER BULLETIN



Up here, in the Northern Plains, we just recovered from a Historic

event--- may I even say a "Weather Event" of "Biblical Proportions"
--- 
with a historic blizzard of up to 44" inches of snow and winds to 90 
M
PH 


that broke trees in half, knocked down utility poles, stranded
hundreds 
of motorists in lethal snow banks, closed ALL roads, isolated scores
of 
communities and cut power to 10's of thousands.



FYI:



George Bush did not come.



FEMA did nothing.



No one howled for the government.



No one blamed the government.



No one even uttered an expletive on TV .



Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton did not visit.



Our Mayor did not blame Bush or anyone else.



Our Governor did not blame Bush or anyone else, either.



CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX or NBC did not visit - or report on this category 
5

snowstorm. Nobody demanded $2,000 debit cards.



No one asked for a FEMA Trailer House.



No one looted.



Nobody - I mean Nobody demanded the government do something.



Nobody expected the government to do anything, either.



No Larry King, No Bill O'Rielly, No Oprah, No Chris Mathews and No

Geraldo Rivera.



No Shaun Penn, No Barbara Str! iesand, No Hollywood types to be 
found.



Nope, we just melted the snow for water.



Sent out caravans of SUV's to pluck people out of snow engulfed cars.



The truck drivers pulled people out of snow banks and didn't ask for 
a

penny.



Local restaurants made food and the police and fire departments
delivered 


it to the snowbound families.

Families took in the stranded people - total strangers.



We fired up wood stoves, broke out coal oil lanterns or Coleman
lanterns. 






We put on extra layers of clothes because up here it is "Work or 
Die".



We did not wait for some affirmative action government to get us out
of a 


mess created by being immobilized by a welfare program that trades
votes 
for 'sittin at home' checks.



Even though a Category "5" blizzard of this scale has never fallen
this 
early, we know it can happen and how to deal with it ourselves.



"In my many travels, I have noticed that once one gets north of about
48 
degrees North Latitude, 90% of the world's social problems 
evaporate."



It does seem that way, at least to me.



I hope this gets passed on.



Maybe SOME people will get the message. The world does Not owe you a

living.



I smell a horrible slam on New Orleans, but I cannot seem to point at the exact moment that I stopped giving a crap. Probably 3 days before the storm hit, but possibly before this. This is probably one of the best explanations of why I don't give a crap.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Yep, you're right, that's a pretty despicable over-simplification of what happened in New Orleans. I hope that guy gets fired for being an idiot. Good to see that there is always more ignorance out there. What happened in New Orleans--speaking as a guy with a friend (medical doctor, wealthy, not black, etc) who had enough money to get out of there in time, but came back to find his place completely destroyed--what happened in New Orleans was pretty simple, in my own words:

A nuclear bomb dropped. 
On a place that has been known for decades to be a site where one would drop. 
In a place where political and business corruption insured that a nuclear bomb could drop. 
On people--whites and blacks--who could only watch the bomb drop.
In an environment that, even post 9/11, couldn't figure out how to clean up after a nuclear bomb.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

This happened in Colorado recently, and unlike New Orleans we didn't have anyone crying for help.

No nukes, nor did I see ANYTHING like the devastation that a nuke would produce in New Orleans.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> This happened in Colorado recently, and unlike New Orleans we didn't have anyone crying for help.
> 
> No nukes, nor did I see ANYTHING like the devastation that a nuke would produce in New Orleans.


Ha-ha. Read up on Katrina. Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_katrina. Talk to people that experienced it. And let me know if you come up with anything close to "a category 5 blizzard that _hit a little earlier than usual_ in a place that knows it can happen and can deal with it themselves." You're comparing apples to oranges here to infer some kind of statement about Those People and it's about as weak as my dog handling. Which sucks, by the way.

And Jeff...by the way...if five or eight feet of water suddenly rose in Denver, Buko would have a nice obstacle course of floating corpses to navigate on his recall work.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

...and let me know the source of that statement, I would love to spend time trying to make sure that guy never serves the public again.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Say it ain't so, Jeff! You don't really believe the two are comparable, do you? Nobody is that naive.


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## Tammy McDowell (Dec 4, 2006)

While I don't believe the 2 are even remotely comparible either, and w/out getting into a political debate over it all, I would like to say that I was highly surprised this year when my daughters school sent home a notice before the holidays stating that local assistance groups would again NOT be able to help local families w/ meals/toys for the Holidays because they were still assisting the Katrina families. Luckily WE did not and do not need assistance from these groups but I know there are many people around us that DID and DO need help. I just found it very upsetting and wrong that our local community was put on the back burner for Katrina people again. I think it is great that help is still being offered in some form I guess but I'd liked to have seen the local community considered as well.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

That's too bad (seriously). It was (is) a horrible event. I think the last time my Mom went down with her church to serve food lines in (a white and not destitute pre-Katrina) area of Mississippi was last Fall.

Not sure when that deal will ever end. Those things leave a lot of head wounds even when the stuff seems over...saw that in OKC after the bombing, saw it with my parents in the OKC tornado, you certainly see it still with people trying to deal with 9/11.

Of course, it could be worse.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yes, people gave as much as they could after the Tsunami, & then gave more after Katrina. I'm not surprised local groups were unable to help locals who are down on their luck. It is just a bad situation all around.


Please note, federal funds are being released to help those states (including Colorado) effected by the blizzard.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Please note, federal funds are being released to help those states (including Colorado) effected by the blizzard.


All that white trash in Aspen. Ungrateful, all of them.


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## melissa mims (Jul 12, 2006)

Teach us to care and not to care, teach us to be still.

http://www.thislife.org/
Episode 297. "This is not my beautiful house" Act Five.

She was a strong woman, but the emotional pain she had to endure in the last months of her life- homeless, unable to center, because the center was gone, home, hearth , all the physical manifistations of her selfhood destroyed- was wrenching. She died a stranger in a strange land, even though she was welcome with me. Lost.

People are relation. Not...objects.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

That Buber stuff keeps coming up, eh, hippie? :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Kinda missing the point.

Two tragedys one community looted and destroyed a football stadium, the other took care of each other.

I saw idiots stealing shoes and clothes. People were dying, and all they could think of was making off with material items. Sad.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Aspen is not on the eastern plains last I checked. I will look again, but pretty sure it is in the Mts.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Didn't miss your point at all, unfortunately. :roll:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Why unfortunately? Are you hanging a tag on my point?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I don't know what "hanging a tag on my point" means.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Why unfortunately? Are you hanging a tag on my point?


Because the point you're trying to make--pretty unsuccessfully--is unfortunate.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

What I can't quite figure out is the 48 degrees latitude thing. That's like the US-Canada border, isn't it? Is this some kind of shadow email from one of those dirty Canadians trying to subvert the US once again?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lets see! Nobody died in Denver. 1, 000 or so did in New Orleans. 
I doubt anyone in Denver lost everything they had. 1,000s did in New Orleans.
Yep! Definately worth a comparison. :roll:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Lets see! Nobody died in Denver. 1, 000 or so did in New Orleans.
> I doubt anyone in Denver lost everything they had. 1,000s did in New Orleans.
> Yep! Definately worth a comparison. :roll:


Actually closer to 2,000, believe it or not (Katrina and then what those nice insurance companies like to call the "indirect (and uninsurable) water surges" or whatever. Kind of amazing more didn't die. I remember when all that first went down and the hysteria really got rolling (for good reason) and they were estimating orders higher than that final tally.

9/11 is amazing to me for the same reason. Not a conspiracy guy, but it's really amazing that so few died.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Tammy McDowell said:


> I just found it very upsetting and wrong that our local community was put on the back burner for Katrina people again. I think it is great that help is still being offered in some form I guess but I'd liked to have seen the local community considered as well.


Just one more note on this...there were two big hits on the ability of national and local charities to provide assistance for their regular operations. Katrina in 2005 and the Tsunami of 2004 (kind of amazing that's almost forgotten, huh? nearly 250,000 people. Dead. In a few hours.). Both of those two events took enormous resources at the national level, pulled in a lot of direct donations that would have otherwise gone to local causes.


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## melissa mims (Jul 12, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I saw idiots stealing shoes and clothes.


You saw? Where you there? WHAT exactly DID you see? Where you personally involved in anything, or anyone down there?

Or did you, like 95% of the people in this country, THINK they saw anything except what the media chose to depict for the viewing pleasure of the public? "Anarchy in the Big Easy" "Escape from New Orleans" with the same feed of the same people looting the same goddamn store.

The crime after the hurricane was overdepicted and under reported. Cops shot a man in the back. Nurses and doctors euthanized patients..

_euthanized_..like dogs. After only 3 days of societal breakdown. Armed suburban militias kept women and children at bay. This was the minority of the population. If you think that the rule of the strongest doesn't apply to you and 'your area', you haven't been through a disaster.

And there were great acts of kindness, and most of the people banded together. They helped the weak, and children, as best they could. Sent runners for water, for food, candy, anything. Shoes so they could walk out of the city (because no one is coming) without burning their feet. But, of course, there is no footage of them. Wonder why?

My cousin is a firefighter, and stayed. We talked about the reality and the televised selection a bit. Civilians are not trained to withstand the stress of societal breakdown; most of what was depicted was fear. Unreal the damage, unreal the chaos and crime, unreal how close true anarchy lurks, and unreal how people think they know what it is like.

So, if you were there, tell me your story.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:9/11 is amazing to me for the same reason. Not a conspiracy guy, but it's really amazing that so few died.

I think that it would have to do with the incredible amount of heat needed to cause the infrastructure to fall and the amount of actual fuel ie desks and paper and things like this that do not generate that kind of heat. 

This would give more time to people, at least in theory.


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## Debbie High (Jul 2, 2006)

All I can say is that Katrina has been a hell of an ordeal to overcome physically, mentally and monetarily. I live in south Mississippi, 90mi. north of New Orleans. We are just now getting our place back in order. It has been a long slow go and not all of us have had governmental assistance. I'm just thankful that I still have a home and not just a slab of concrete in the middle of nowhere because the whole town was blown and/or washed away! I am also thankful that I don't live in New Orleans

Must add this story. My son-in-law's 74yr old father stayed on a bridge for 5days without food or water before he was air-lifted to Atlanta where he was hospitialized for dehydration. We had no way of knowing whether he was dead or alive for over a week because we had no means of communication. He was given a ride from Baton Rouge to my daughter's home(150mi) by a total stranger. For all the crappy things that did happen there were many, many acts of kindness that were not reported by the media. What has been seen on television is nothing compared to the real devastation the area has suffered and is still suffering. The impact of this storm had no socio-economic boundries. Covered em all!!!


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

Being snowed in can hardly compare to having your home filled to the ceiling with toxic-waste contaminated water filled with debris, snakes and alligators! 

That being said, I do think the "government", starting with _the city of New Orleans itself_, had much to do with the severity of the problem. NO had dozens of city buses sitting there getting flooded. Why weren't those buses filled with people heading to safety? Where was the NO police force while people in the Superdome were being raped, robbed and victimized? 
Likewise blame for the state of La. No National Guard? 
IMO, the main failing of the Federal government was the fostering of the welfare mentality that was so evident here. No personal responsibility for your lot in life, no concept of "helping yourself", all is to be given to you by the gov. No worries about medical insurance  Free! No worries about food on the table  Free! No worries about housing  Section 8, Free! Can't have the poor downtrodden doing without, so new computer and internet access  Free! Is it any wonder that so many people had the idea that they should just be literally picked up out of their tracks and transported via limo to their new apartment stocked with food?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Becky Shilling said:


> Is it any wonder that so many people had the idea that they should just be literally picked up out of their tracks and transported via limo to their new apartment stocked with food?


I can't imagine any American--particularly the rich ones that I interact with out in Silicon Valley--not having the same expectation, Becky.


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

Not a particularly heartening statement on America, I'm afraid. 

We used to be a country of do-it-yourselfers. What happened? 
Americans can be the most generous, caring people in the world. (As we showed with our private sector donations for the Tsunami AND Katrina victims), but we can also be the most self-absorbed self-centered bunch of bone heads on the planet.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

We are trying to impress the French.


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

Now there's a bunch of winners! :roll:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> We are trying to impress the French.


    That's certainly my life's goal!


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## melissa mims (Jul 12, 2006)

Becky Shilling said:


> Where was the NO police force while people in the Superdome were being raped, robbed and victimized?
> Likewise blame for the state of La. No National Guard?
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

melissa mims said:


> Becky Shilling said:
> 
> 
> > Where was the NO police force while people in the Superdome were being raped, robbed and victimized?
> ...


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

> And a lot of the people were elderly, sick, or kids. Or British.


 :lol: :lol: This made me laugh. 

_mental image of John Cleese in Superdome_


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## melissa mims (Jul 12, 2006)

lol. Now that would be news!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Becky Shilling said:
> 
> 
> > Is it any wonder that so many people had the idea that they should just be literally picked up out of their tracks and transported via limo to their new apartment stocked with food?
> ...


Right. But in Silicon Valley the expectations would have been met.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Becky Shilling said:


> > And a lot of the people were elderly, sick, or kids. Or British.
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: This made me laugh.
> ...



I loved the phrase too. :lol:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I appreciate that the news reports of looting & gangs roaming the streets terrorizing people were highly exagerated. On the other hand, thanks to some very skillful reporting, done by the likes of Anderson Cooper & others, the scope of the disaster in the effected states was brought to the nations attention. I am sorry to say that I now firmly believe had it not been for those reporters bringing the story to the rest of the world, our federal government never would have stepped in.

As far as people needing help is concerned, the greatness of this country can only be measured by how we help our fellow man during a crisis. I have the distinct feeling that some people actually blame the problem on the poor. Why didn't they leave prior to the hurricane? They couldn't. They either didn't have cars or gas. These people rely on public transportation (as does much of New York City, regardless of class).


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> the greatness of this country can only be measured by how we help our fellow man during a crisis


Amen, sister. We lose sight of that and we are done.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

while the death toll and monetary damages may not be equal, jeff, and the author were comparing the reaction of the people involved. therefor his comparison is valid.

melissa, we had one of our firefighters who went to N.O. give a de-briefing when he got back. he said the looting, the violence, etc. was UNDER-REPORTED by the media. he said they (firefighters) were not allowed to go anywhere without armed assistance (police). it was also terribly disorganized and he and his team sat around for 2 days before they were given direction on what to do.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> while the death toll and monetary damages may not be equal, jeff, and the author were comparing the reaction of the people involved. therefor his comparison is valid.


Kind of hoping this thread would die a quick death, but you are 100% completely wrong. Reread what you just typed. Think really, really hard about what you just typed. Think hard, man, think HARD. Make sure you have a pillow on your forehead to block your hand when the realization of your poor logic hits you so hard you involuntarily slam your hand into your forehead in a D'oh of historical proportions.

They are not equivalent events and we would not expect people to react the same way to them.

I am no cultural apologist, I joke about being a liberal but I have very little patience for a lot of cultural relativism, but let me make this clear as a bell: comparing the Katrina disaster to an EARLY BLIZZARD IN COLORADO is a dumb, weak thing to do.

And I can promise you that the author of that email was making a few other points as well. Let me know what you thought about that whole line about no problems north of 48 degrees latitude. Chew on that. Let me know what you think.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

There was an earthquake here that leveled 70% of the downtown (two blocks away); one house on my street blew up in a gas explosion, and of course there were deaths in my town and in the surrounding cities and towns. Everyone did indeed pull together and help each other. We also had federal and state help.

But we were NOT isolated from the rest of the world for a week first, surrounded by floating dead bodies and sewage, and without food or transportation, with infants dying of malnutrition and dehydration in the subsequent days.

I wouldn't dream of equating the two in any way. 

I'd be embarrassed to.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> There was an earthquake here that leveled 70% of the downtown (two blocks away); one house on my street blew up in a gas explosion, and of course there were deaths in my town and in the surrounding cities and towns. Everyone did indeed pull together and help each other. We also had federal and state help.
> 
> But we were NOT isolated from the rest of the world for a week first, surrounded by floating dead bodies and sewage, and without food or transportation, with infants dying of malnutrition and dehydration in the subsequent days.
> 
> ...


Nice thing about disasters in your area. Every one is a liberal and a vegetarian. No crime, no cannibalism. If I am ever in the aftermath of an apolcalyptic event, I want to be near Connie's place. Hopefully the "vegetation" will survive. If it's a flood, no problem--hydroponics, right!?!?!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> .... If it's a flood, no problem--hydroponics, right!?!?!


Absolutely! 8)


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> [Make sure you have a pillow on your forehead to block your hand when the realization of your poor logic hits you so hard you involuntarily slam your hand into your forehead in a D'oh of historical proportions.


...by the way, this better have not been a Simpsons line because I'm very, very proud of it.


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Connie Sutherland said:
> 
> 
> > There was an earthquake here that leveled 70% of the downtown (two blocks away); one house on my street blew up in a gas explosion, and of course there were deaths in my town and in the surrounding cities and towns. Everyone did indeed pull together and help each other. We also had federal and state help.
> ...


LMFAO


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

the point is that in a terrible situation like either of these, there will always be a segment of the population whose first instinct is to stick their hands out (for help), loot, and behave violently toward their fellow man/woman because of the lack of law. unfortunately there is a disproportionate number of these people in N.O. (no, this is not a race thing. i saw white people looting on camera).

the real argument here is had the death toll and destruction been equal in colorado, would you have seen the atrocities that were witnessed in NO? it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with a "no" answer here. anything different and you are the naive ones.

and before you come at me with the "you don't know what you would do in a situation like that. would you not steal for your family?" yes, i would steal, but it sure as hell wouldn't be a DVD player or television from walmart that i would steal.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > [Make sure you have a pillow on your forehead to block your hand when the realization of your poor logic hits you so hard you involuntarily slam your hand into your forehead in a D'oh of historical proportions.
> ...


"Simpsons did it."


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Hah. I like this line of thinking because it assumes that there are no ******* whackjobs in Colorado. HAH. 

Tim, if there was a situation in Colorado like the one in New Orleans--where there was NO law enforcement around, eight feet of standing water, corpses floating by you, and the rumor of Mr. Stranger Danger roaming the streets to rape the women and kill the men...with no visibility to whether ORDER WOULD EVER BE RETURNED, let alone food and water--I can promise you there would be some serious white trash runs on WalMart. They would carry out Little Debbies, flip flops, day-glo pink trikes, all that crap. It would all be done to a soundtrack off of Heehaw. All that nasty Buck Owens/Roy Clark sh!t.

Guaranteed.

Here's a secret, folks. Do you know what white people do when they are really trapped in a situation?

link


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Hah. I like this line of thinking because it assumes that there are no ******* whackjobs in Colorado. HAH.
> 
> Tim, if there was a situation in Colorado like the one in New Orleans--where there was NO law enforcement around, eight feet of standing water, corpses floating by you, and the rumor of Mr. Stranger Danger roaming the streets to rape the women and kill the men...with no visibility to whether ORDER WOULD EVER BE RETURNED, let alone food and water--I can promise you there would be some serious white trash runs on WalMart. They would carry out Little Debbies, flip flops, day-glo pink trikes, all that crap. It would all be done to a soundtrack off of Heehaw. All that nasty Buck Owens/Roy Clark sh!t.
> 
> ...


nevermind. you chose to make this a race argument. end of discussion for me. when you stop drinking the liberal kool aid and are no longer ashamed to be white, we can talk...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I just love it when a white person plays the race card. [-X


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> nevermind. you chose to make this a race argument. end of discussion for me. when you stop drinking the liberal kool aid and are no longer ashamed to be white, we can talk...


Again, this has to be making your head hurt. Gimme a plausible explanation for that 48 degree latitude comment in the O.P. And I'm not making this a race argument, Tim...that is red herring for the dumb, though obviously a part of that original email is your typical National Alliance/Stormfront speaking points. There is no question, none, in my mind that that tool who wrote that email was a racist. None. I've read more of that crap than you ever will and I can smell it from a mile away. Maybe we will be lucky and Prussian Blue will put out a song committing that email to verse. 

It's the same issues that have knocked people around forever. Economic class, incredible selfishness, and the basic question of whether I really should help somebody if they really need help.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I just love it when a white person plays the race card. [-X


I was more irritated that Tim used the n-word.

["Nevermind." :lol:]

_just a joke_


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> I've read more of that crap than you ever will and I can smell it from a mile away.


well, it's nice that you've _read_ a lot of that crap. i _see_ it in real life. i get the race card pulled on me all the time. "you're only giving me a ticket because i'm...", "you're only arresting me because i'm...", "you're only stopping me because i'm...". so before you hurt your arm patting yourself on the back for being such a worldly man, be mindful of your audience. i will do to you what i do to those people who pull that on me. go about my business and end the conversation.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > I've read more of that crap than you ever will and I can smell it from a mile away.
> ...


Tim, I have no need to tell you what personal stuff I have seen and what experiences I have had to rationalize any comments I want to make about typical whitepower hate speech under the guise of common sense. You have no idea what kind of life I have led, and what kinds of things I have seen, and I make no claims to know either of those things relative to you. I freely admit I know jack about dogs. You are wrong to extend out that limitation to anything else.

And your response--pulling up accusations made of you to rationalize how you know about race relations--is dicey on a few levels.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> ....There is no question, none, in my mind that that tool who wrote that email was a racist..


How could there be?


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## melissa mims (Jul 12, 2006)

Tim, as I said in my second post, UNDERREPORTED and OVERexagerated. There were points exagerated, and others dismissed. Looting vs getting supplies.

Susan, yes, there were a few reporters that really went the mile and did real reporting, from the standpoint of the human level of loss and suffering. I also don't forget that the people of Biloxi, MS lost most of the city. 17 miles of leveled waste. 80% of St Berhnard parish is totaled. There are areas that will never recover completely (NO is one of them). 

No one, no one expected immediate help. If they did, they were fools. Everyone buttoned down, and stocked up, and tried not to think of the worst. Camille in 1969. Doomsday. When the water gets in, it can't get out. Complete failure, at all levels, of infrastructure.

There were those who died, while the some in the media reduced the state of people to that of animals. Animals. It exposed many, many assumptions in the good hearts of the American people. The good reporting, showed what was there; chaos, suffering, crime, fear. Overwhelming loss.

And whilst the government heads sat and dithered, and worried about the political implications of allowing this to be a temporary military evac, people died, and no authourity stepped in tho take control, until Honore showed up. And issued orders that guns were not to be leveled at Americans, without cause. Point the guns down. These are Americans. Think about that, for a moment. When did this happen before?

Deeply saddens me to see, and hear, the entire population of unevaced NO painted by the brushstrokes of the actions of fiending junkies, and gangbangers. 10% of the population that stayed submitted themselves to the worst within the human heart. And they should pay, with swift justice, for their actions. 

It was not just NO that allowed itself to be swept up in fear and hysteria. Fear has many faces. It leaps, like a wildfire, and distorts. 

Sorry for keeping this alive, but this is actually cathartic for me. For eight days I lost my mother, and the ruin and loss of NO is symbolic of her ruin. She didn't leave because she was too sick with cancer, and didn't know it. She was too weak. She died 5 months after Katrina, and what should have been a going gentle into that good night, at peace and resolved, i's dotted and t's crossed, she had to haggle with insurance adjusters, and new clothes, and new housing, and new city. 

Symbolic, man. How does it feel? With no direction home. A complete unknown. Fragments against my ruin.

I'll not post in this thread again. I need to close this book.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I applaud a lot of the thoughtful posts on this thread, especially Woody & Melissa.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> I applaud a lot of the thoughtful posts on this thread, especially Woody & Melissa.


I agree wholeheartedly.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> susan tuck said:
> 
> 
> > I applaud a lot of the thoughtful posts on this thread, especially Woody & Melissa.
> ...


I think melissa is a nerd :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Connie Sutherland said:
> 
> 
> > susan tuck said:
> ...


I think Woody is a tard. :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I think Woody is a tard. :lol:


Woody is just irritated because once again his comedic genius is getting buried in flame wars. You all will miss me when I start modding the Cat Fancy board.

_Edited to say, it's been nice, I'm gone. Headed for greener pastures and thread topics like...

"Getting to know Mew."
http://forums.cathobbyist.com/view.php?id=90265,90265

"Cat Goes On Carpet--NOTHING WORKS!"
http://forums.cathobbyist.com/view.php?id=89921,89921

"CAT OLYMPICS"
http://forums.cathobbyist.com/view.php?id=75841,75841

It's like I've finally found my home._


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yeah, but you have cooties! :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Yeah, but you have cooties! :lol:


It's tempting because my dog sucks but my cat would tear those kitties apart.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> I've read more of that crap than you ever will





Woody Taylor said:


> You have no idea what kind of life I have led, and what kinds of things I have seen, and I make no claims to know either of those things relative to you. *You are wrong to extend out that limitation to anything else.*


so you are the only one who can make assumptions or extrapolate?


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## melissa mims (Jul 12, 2006)

"What do Buck Owens, Roy Clark, Little Debbies, Prussian Blue, Cat Fancy, hydroponic Mary Jane, the Donner Party, 
Those People, the Simpsons, Martin Buber, the Darfur genocide, the Quebecois, the French, your mom, and logical fallacies in common? "
workingdogforum.com

ROTFLMAO! LMAO!

This should be preserved...really. :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

melissa mims said:


> "What do Buck Owens, Roy Clark, Little Debbies, Prussian Blue, Cat Fancy, hydroponic Mary Jane, the Donner Party,
> Those People, the Simpsons, Martin Buber, the Darfur genocide, the Quebecois, the French, your mom, and logical fallacies in common? "
> workingdogforum.com
> 
> ...


AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Gimme a plausible explanation for that 48 degree latitude comment in the O.P.

Democrats Dummy, Democrats. Not blacks and whites, Democrats. That is what they were refering to, and how the Democrats are notorious for hand outs instead of programs that can teach a skill.

You know, feed a man and it is good for a day, teach him to fish and it is a lifetime.

Woody, MASTER of the ass umption. Nice job.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Gimme a plausible explanation for that 48 degree latitude comment in the O.P.
> 
> Democrats Dummy, Democrats. Not blacks and whites, Democrats. .


Uh-huh. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.


Are you reading Dave Barry again? :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Jeff Oehlsen said:
> 
> 
> > Quote: Gimme a plausible explanation for that 48 degree latitude comment in the O.P.
> ...


  !!WOW!!  I think they were watching a Cheech and Chong movie marithon when they made those maps. :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

Sure hope they get their money. The Oklahoma City people that had their homes destroyed by the May 3, 1999 tornados never got anything out of them. There were over 8000 homes and businesses destroyed or badly damaged. SF said, "What? Are you kidding? That's millions and millions of dollars you're talking about!" So the insurance commissioner says, "you can't sell insurance in Oklahoma anymore." Oh, boohoo says SF, See ya!


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Regardless of Woody's comedogenic genious, the more the government giveth, the more people take...all over the world...and this applies to every, EVERY, subordinate relationship as well. Parents and kids; pastors and flock, (jeje); bosses and employees; and the list goes on. A coronary to that is the more you demandeth, the more you will be giveneth.

There's a BIG difference between solidarity towards people in need, and OBLIGATION towards people whose need is the product of a strong skew towards being lazy and living off the fat of the land - oft opting for fat of the illegal, immoral variety.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Becky, You are so right. Insurance Comissioners are in bed with the Insurance Companies - & very adept at passing the buck. Anything to slither out of paying claims. 

Andres, your remarks are flat out ridiculous. I am really sick of hearing such biggoted bs. In fact, your remarks are way off base. We are talking about a horrible catastrophe & you bring up "laziness"? What is wrong with you?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I find the reactions to this amazing. No one mentions that it was a catagory 5 blizzard with the same wind speeds. 

It is cold, and there is no power. NO it was warm and no power.

There are so many points that were not brought up it is sad.

Worst of all, the sad ass race card was played. Time to get over that. ZI am not old enough to have done anything to anybody of a different color. I think that is stupid. Best of all, I am old enough that I have been denied jobs simply because I was white.

The reaction was Boo Hoo for you. Like being white is this great treat. THe last person that called me predjudiced was a drunk at the bar who I politely asked to leave because he had pissed himself and had a bottle of Popov (cheap vodka) in his hand.

Needless to say I welcomed him with open arms.

So I found some interesting reactions to this e-mail I recieved. I am guessing that most of you computer nerds are leaning towards a Democrat type point of view, due to having theory, but mever actually being out to put it into play,

The rest work in the real world and have eaten shit from affermative action, and been called racist for the dumbest reasons, besides which, always in situations where we had no influence of that persons life whatsoever.

I find myself not reading all of someones post, and commenting on what I see.

I read this e-mail the first time, and thought it was pretty cocky too.

I love experimenting on you guys.    :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

You are a sad frustrated little man. Of COURSE it was affirmative action that cost you jobs, hell couldn't be that a person of color was more qualified than you, could it?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

None had applied. Again playing the race card. That is the sad thing. I applied for a job with the SD police. There were 60 people there, 5 were women. The rest were white males.  

Yes, I was sooooo sad, that I called a bunch of my friends and told them to apply, as they were looking for minorities.

You only see what you want to see was the point I was making with the other post. Obviously all you can see is a racist, which too me proves that you *[Mod Edit--No way. That is not bait that will be dangled on this forum. /Woody].*


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sure, keep telling yourself that. Whatever. You are the one who said you were denied jobs because you were white, not me!


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

> And whilst the government heads sat and dithered, and worried about the political implications of allowing this to be a temporary military evac, people died, and no authourity stepped in tho take control, until Honore showed up. And issued orders that guns were not to be leveled at Americans, without cause. Point the guns down. These are Americans. Think about that, for a moment. When did this happen before?


This was such an important thing, this guy showing up and doing that. It's too bad it's not remembered more by all Americans. It was, in my opinion, a very transcendent moment in American history. Comparable (my opinion) with Lincoln's Gettysberg address, Roosevelt's speech after Pearl Harbor, even Gerald Ford pardoning Richard Nixon (which was, hippies, a very wise thing to do), even our collective response after 9/11. For the very reasons you're articulating here. How does an American react when confronted with something that we have never seen before, something that challenges our very basic notions of security and freedom that we take for granted as Americans? 

Winston Churchill has some great line about how


> "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing after they have exhausted all the other possibilities."


I love that quotation, because it points out the obvious that we make many mistakes, but invariably we do get it right, must get it right, keep trying till we get it right. And these things we eventually do almost always err on the side of believing in the basic goodness of our people and an explicit, audacious effort to get beyond issues of class, race, and what's "natural and inevitable."

A very simple thing this guy Honore did...this guy, a Creole from a family of 12, nothing but a career Army guy...gave a few orders to his troops. Which were so very important for all Americans to see. I get very moved about this guy, and this event, because his very American attitude and confidence was able to (at least initiate) a complete resetting of that entire nightmare. A few words, wisely spoken and brashly American, erased so much terror and so much chaos. Not exaggerating a bit when I say that simple act of him doing that did more for America and our people than all the actions of many career politicians and philanthropists. I hope people never forget that.

What a great country. I never lose faith in the basic power of Americans. They figure it out, eventually, and they eventually figure out something that accounts for the basic human rights we all have, and the love we should feel toward each other. I love my country for that, with all of its warts.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Susan...


> Andres, your remarks are flat out ridiculous. I am really sick of hearing such biggoted bs. In fact, your remarks are way off base. We are talking about a horrible catastrophe & you bring up "laziness"? What is wrong with you?


 First of all, I am not biggoted...towards race or any other differentiating cultural factor.

Second, my point is that there are people who try...and people who don't even try.

The latter deserve far less than former. The ones who don't even try, are the ones that make the most noise...and recieve more than they deserve, to the detriment of those who make huge efforts.

At the end of the day, governmental assistance is at best impossibly complicated, because it is managed by people...some who try, some who don't. Regarding the case in point, New Orleans is arguably the most corrupt city in the US, so I feel comfortable making the case that there are many people there that have little interest in doing things correctly...or at least in trying. This made all the efforts much more difficult. Too many people abdicated their personal responsability...in favor of "a government". :roll: 

THIS IS NOT MEANT TO DIMINISH THE KATRINA DISASTER, NOR EXCUSE THE CRASS INCOMPETENCE THAT SURROUNDED IT, NOR THE WASTE, NOR THE CORRUPTION, NOR MORE IMPORTANTLY...THE HUMAN CONDITION THAT SURROUNDED IT...AND STILL DOES, NOR THE IMMENSITY OF THAT ACT OF NATURE THAT CAUGHT TOO MANY PEOPLE UNWITTINGLY UNAWARE.

The world learned much from the US response to Katrina, and I hope the US people did too. Life is HARD...and true security and safety are illusions.

As individuals - members of communities - we have a personal responsability to be prepared, and to do our best for ourselves, and for those around us. Those of us that have worked in huge emergencies - wars, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and hurricanes - are familiar with the ABUSES committed by the "needy". We do careful balancing acts.

Simmer down, Susan.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Loved your post until I got to the part about "abuses commited by the needy". Again, this nation is only as great as it's ability to help those in need.
I think Woody said it best in his last post, I am going to rise above this fray & stop posting on this thread.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Susan, thanks. The only word I enclosed in quotes is the word "needy"...because under the guise of "need" hundreds undeservedly obtain. I am amply familiar with the REAL needy.
I'm glad I got partial approval from you, though. I will strive to improve. :wink:


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Wow, this has been a heated post. I'm almost afraid to say that I 'side' with Jeff and Andres, though.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Wow, this has been a heated post. I'm almost afraid to say that I 'side' with Jeff and Andres, though.


That's good, they needed someone to eat first when the sh!t goes down. They do not trust each other with Russian Roulette.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Yeah, i see what you're saying Andres, kinda like the USA giving loads of cash to a lot of countrys that can't seem to help themselves.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> Yeah, i see what you're saying Andres, kinda like the USA giving loads of cash to a lot of countrys that can't seem to help themselves.


Okay, that one made me laugh out loud at my desk. Good to see you, Al. :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So people forget the woman who started a fake charity immediatly after 911????? Or is it just "I only see the good time?"


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Al...


> Yeah, i see what you're saying Andres, kinda like the USA giving loads of cash to a lot of countrys that can't seem to help themselves.


Not quite. I guess you don't have a "back yard" then? If you do, it probably looks like sh!t.

FYI, back yards are the places where bad guys hide; they are the easiest points of entry into your home; they are where the least noise is heard, etc. In other words, you have to take care of your back yard. A fence or a wall, aren't enough.

I hope you get the point. And I also hope you NEVER have anything to do with International anything. I am also quite sure you won't.

Nonetheless, it was a funny post. You crack me up.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> If you do, it probably looks like sh!t.


Andres, that is what I will tell my wife. My backyard is that ugly not because of the dog pacing. It's those damn FMLN guerrillas. Then I can get a Presa!

Just a joke... :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Wht the "F" would you want one of those junkers???? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Wht the "F" would you want one of those junkers???? :lol: :lol: :lol:


All kidding aside...and say, five pages into a thread on a dog board and we're talking dogs! I really like Irina's Presas. They are cool dogs. Just a lot to take on, for lots of different reasons. But really nice companion/guardian dogs for someone that would know how to handle them, and I have a great deal of respect for Irina and Mark's abilities to select, breed, and home those dogs. Fun to watch them work.


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## Robert Blok (Jul 26, 2006)

> Both of those two events took enormous resources at the national level, pulled in a lot of direct donations that would have otherwise gone to local causes.


[/quote]

Unfortunately, most of the tsunami victims are still waiting to see anything come their way. :evil: 

The real problem is when the politicians get involved and the media hype follows. Neither know s..t about anything other then getting their name and pic in front of the world. I never saw any of them actually sticking a hand out to help. Too busy talking and gettin in the "shot".
Makes me sick,
Robert


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