# The Newest Designer Breed :-(



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Unfortunately I can see an interest in these dogs from the people who like the labradoodles, now they can get it in black and tan.


----------



## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Do most people even know what a beauceron is? I think they may have chosen something a little too esoteric. I agree though, not cool.

Maybe dutchie-doodles will be next.


----------



## christina chapman (Oct 9, 2011)

That is actual ad? 

I have a tendency to always "check" my local papers for listings that mentions Beaucerons, but I've never actually seen one.

(As a humorous side note, my boss pointed out that the "black & curly" was a tad off-putting. LoL)


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Yes, it's an actual ad in the newspaper, my sister took a picture of it and sent it to me this morning.


----------



## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Pls tell me things aren't AKC registerable. As snooty as they tend to be.


----------



## Deb Vigil (Jan 1, 2008)

The WDF is not the place for ads for designer dogs.


----------



## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

catherine hardigan said:


> Maybe dutchie-doodles will be next.


 
Those are called Lakenois


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm guessing this wasn't actually a designer breed. Just an
opps the Beauceron nailed the poodle lets try to get rid of the pups


----------



## christina chapman (Oct 9, 2011)

I was curious if they had some other puppies they sold as well, so I googled and found a few other ads with the same contact number...considering the June ad, it isn't the first litter they've had:

A few ads, posted throughout November 2011 (higher price):
Beaudoodle Puppies AKC beauceron/standard poodle cross, intelligent, athletic, large, curley, black 6wks $550 541-754-9537 

And one posted on June 10, 2011: 
We have 5 Beaudoodle (Beauceron X Std. Poodle puppies available for adoption. They are 8 weeks odl, healthy, and well socialized. Please call Debi for details. (541)754-9537.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

More google fu:

http://www.ypsort.com/info/OR/1101427/

And the use of "for adoption" makes me vomit. :roll:


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

This ad has photos of the pups and parents.

http://registerguard.kaango.com/ads/viewad/print?adid=19918168


----------



## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

catherine hardigan said:


> Maybe dutchie-doodles will be next.


How about a Malincollie?


http://bcsportdogs.com/

(our dogs > by breeding)


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

At least with the Malincollie, there is some purpose to them besides looking cute. It appears they do health testing on those dogs as well. People have crossed horse breeds to make sport horses ad nauseum and there's the Alaskan husky and Dutch Malinois. I'd be interested to see if the Malincollie is more of a loose eyed dog for herding like the Mal or the opposite like a collie.


----------



## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

I am waiting for some racing greyhound X Dutchie/mals


----------



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

So they breed mals to border collies for fly ball but why??

I could see they bred borders to what seemed like whippets now i wouold like to see that dog do flyball or agility would be interesting.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

One of the blood donor greyhounds in our vet school was a red fawn with a black mask and her ears often stood up on their own, so didn't have the proper rose ear. I let her out on turn out a few times and she was quite fast. She probably would have made a nice cross for you, Will. :wink:

If someone wants to breed me a Mal/black sable GSD/Siberian husky cross, I'd be okay with that.


----------



## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

So if designer dog breeders do health testing its ok?


I just dont see the point in their breedings. They are breeding dogs to be under 16" that will run around an agility ring or down a flyball track. While I guess thats a purpose its not a good one IMO.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

"Designer Breed" is just a catchy name someone came up with, to sell mutts for $1k and up. Damn JQP is gullible and DUMB


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sarah Best said:


> So if designer dog breeders do health testing its ok?
> 
> 
> I just dont see the point in their breedings. They are breeding dogs to be under 16" that will run around an agility ring or down a flyball track. While I guess thats a purpose its not a good one IMO.


Then what purpose are Alaskan huskies? Most people who have them either mush recreationally or competitively, not to get around as their main source of transportation (though I'm sure there are some that do). I don't know that breeder, but if they are doing health testing, are breeding for a purpose (and not just because they are cute pets, there's plenty of cute pets in shelters), and making sure the pups get into the right hands, I don't have a problem with it anymore than people who breed Alaskan huskies and Dutch Malinois who do the same. They're doing more than most BYBers and show breeders.


----------



## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't agree with breeding dogs for sports like flyball and agility. Even if the test their dogs or whatever I'm still not a fan.There are plenty of dogs in shelters that can do those things. 

All this argument really is about is what purpose is important enough to breed dogs for. Even though I compete in agility I would never buy a sport mix bred dog as I find it pointless. But other people don't. Just like other people find breeding dog just for the show ring fine while I don't.

Its all a mater of opinion. No one ever wins.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I went with to pick a "teddy bear" puppy for a friend of a friend...told him to leave...but he picked out a real cute one for 2500.00

toy poodle X bichon X Shih Tzu...no training..no health checks...$2500.00 per pup...but they are cute


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Sarah Best said:


> I don't agree with breeding dogs for sports like flyball and agility. Even if the test their dogs or whatever I'm still not a fan.There are plenty of dogs in shelters that can do those things.
> 
> All this argument really is about is what purpose is important enough to breed dogs for. Even though I compete in agility I would never buy a sport mix bred dog as I find it pointless. But other people don't. Just like other people find breeding dog just for the show ring fine while I don't.
> 
> Its all a mater of opinion. No one ever wins.


I would agree. I also do agility and find my working bred sheepdog is amazing as are my 2 working bred rescues that were unwanted as they were either to full on for the surburban back garden or not working out on sheep. Fab in the agility ring. A couple of the best agility dogs are unwanted mixes from shelters and shelters are overflowing with working bred dogs that were too much for the suburban back garden. A friend has 4 kelpies she rescued and they are great sport dogs.

One breeder that irritated me recently is breeding Borderpoos, thought it would be a cute mix to make some easy money with.

The ANKC over here would strike any breeder off if they were found to be cross breeding registered dogs.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

So by that token, is it wrong to buy or breed purebred dogs purely for agility or flyball if there are so many shelter dogs who can do it? Why or why not?


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So by that token, is it wrong to buy or breed purebred dogs purely for agility or flyball if there are so many shelter dogs who can do it? Why or why not?


I sold a pup to an agility lady...


----------



## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*Re: The Newest Designer Breed :-( Genetic Diversity !*

Look at the up side, more genetic diversity.

As far as I am concerned, selling cross breeds with
silly names and hype is not one bit worse than selling
dogs based on AKC show wins and "champion blood 
lines."

I grantee you the AKC will sooner or later buy in,
since the mid nineties their registration count has
FALLEN IN HALF !

My view is that the general public is catching on to
the fact that "purebred" dogs is one huge con game....


----------



## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So by that token, is it wrong to buy or breed purebred dogs purely for agility or flyball if there are so many shelter dogs who can do it? Why or why not?



I say yes to both but I can deal with people buying working dogs to do agility or flyball with.

I would never buy a dog purely for agility from a breeder but thats just me. I would only buy a dog from a breeder if I wanted to do some type of protection work although most likely that dog would also be doing agility. If I wanted a dog just for agility I would be looking through the shelters. 


The only way I could see me agreeing with a sport breeder is a breeder for the companion breeds. The breeds that have nothing more to do that sit on your lap all day or parade around the show ring. Ive seen a boston breeder doing that. Their dogs are a lot healthier that the normal companion bostons. But how is breeding for sports improving anything on lets say a border collie?


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So by that token, is it wrong to buy or breed purebred dogs purely for agility or flyball if there are so many shelter dogs who can do it? Why or why not?


Rescue dogs are not for everybody. I dont really care if people breed for sports but for example with BC and kelpies - I think though that there are quite a lot of working bred dogs coming out of breedings for sheepdogs that are very suitable for these sports, not every dog from these breedings is going to be a sheepdog, but is often highly suitable for sports.

They are athletic, fast, smart and many of these dogs come into our agility community and do amazingly well, often faster than anything else you will see. Certainly we have some of the best and fastest agility dogs in the country and they are mainly from working dog breedings rather than sport breedings. They can be purebred collies or kelpies (not ANKC) or mixes thereof.


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: The Newest Designer Breed :-( Genetic Diversity !*



Jim Engel said:


> Look at the up side, more genetic diversity.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, selling cross breeds with
> silly names and hype is not one bit worse than selling
> ...


I have no interest in the ANKC, AKC or such as I really am only interested in working bred dogs for my farm. 

However the public is being conned into paying outrageous prices for a couple of dogs thrown together often with no form of health testing at all. Saw quite a lot of these dogs coming through rescue with all sorts of issues. Not saying that purebred dogs dont have issues either as I am no fan of the kennel clubs, but I have seen some shocking designer breds. The breeders were probably laughing all the way to the bank.

I mean there are some fab working bred BCs out there, why would you cross them with a shizu zu poo or whatever it is. At least cross it to another working breed like a kelpie or whatever. I guess the money aint as good.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: The Newest Designer Breed :-( Genetic Diversity !*



Sara Waters said:


> I have no interest in the ANKC, AKC or such as I really am only interested in working bred dogs for my farm.
> 
> However the public is being conned into paying outrageous prices for a couple of dogs thrown together often with no form of health testing at all. Saw quite a lot of these dogs coming through rescue with all sorts of issues. Not saying that purebred dogs dont have issues either as I am no fan of the kennel clubs, but I have seen some shocking designer breds. The breeders were probably laughing all the way to the bank.
> 
> I mean there are some fab working bred BCs out there, why would you cross them with a shizu zu poo or whatever it is. At least cross it to another working breed like a kelpie or whatever. I guess the money aint as good.


are they really being conned,if they go buy a cute puppy on a whim, and don't ask any questions, and pick the cute, or the shy one..???


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: The Newest Designer Breed :-( Genetic Diversity !*



Joby Becker said:


> are they really being conned,if they go buy a cute puppy on a whim, and don't ask any questions, and pick the cute, or the shy one..???


Probably not, more fool them to part with thousands of dollars based on hype or whatever. The breeders see the opportunity in the typical range of human traits and pounce. LOL.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: The Newest Designer Breed :-( Genetic Diversity !*



Sara Waters said:


> Probably not, more fool them to part with thousands of dollars based on hype or whatever. The breeders see the opportunity in the typical range of human traits and pounce. LOL.


is it really pouncing? when all the pups sell by 6 weeks, and there are waiting lists?


----------



## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So by that token, is it wrong to buy or breed purebred dogs purely for agility or flyball if there are so many shelter dogs who can do it? Why or why not?


That's a good question. While I don't think it's "wrong" to buy a pet or flyball dog per se, I think it's less generous, often naive, and sometimes elitist. 

Shelter dogs are cheap, in need, make great pets, and are often more than capable of playing at a variety of activities. For the majority of dog owners what else is necessary? But who am I to say what is right or wrong; both of my "working dogs", although not from shelters, were given to me for free. It's pretty surprising what some people are willing to pay for a protection/sport dog too.


----------



## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> This ad has photos of the pups and parents.
> 
> http://registerguard.kaango.com/ads/viewad/print?adid=19918168


Did anyone have called the seller?


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> That's a good question. While I don't think it's "wrong" to buy a pet or flyball dog per se, I think it's less generous, often naive, and sometimes elitist.
> 
> Shelter dogs are cheap, in need, make great pets, and are often more than capable of playing at a variety of activities. For the majority of dog owners what else is necessary? But who am I to say what is right or wrong; both of my "working dogs", although not from shelters, were given to me for free. It's pretty surprising what some people are willing to pay for a protection/sport dog too.


HI Catherine

I've got a slightly different slant on it. I think it's wrong to buy any dog to compete in any particular sport. I'd rather pick the dog first and then find a sport where we both can have fun.


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> HI Catherine
> 
> I've got a slightly different slant on it. I think it's wrong to buy any dog to compete in any particular sport. I'd rather pick the dog first and then find a sport where we both can have fun.


 
Well you wouldnt have much choice here! We have agility, obedience, tracking, retrieving and herding to choose from. Retrieving is only open to the retrieving breeds, ANKC herding is open to herding breeds. Working sheepdog association herding is only open to dogs that have been approved for the working sheepdog register and are all working bred dogs.


----------



## christina chapman (Oct 9, 2011)

I dislike those who make breeding decisions based on potentially catchy "breed" names so they can sell them for ridiculous amounts of money. (Then again, I have a problem with any breeder whose motivation is a quick buck.) 


When it comes to those who breed for a specific goal (e.g., a specific job/sport, bettering the health of a breed), I can understand that--even if it is mixing breeds. I can respect those motives as they tend to be the same breeders who work to find good homes for the pups, who are breeding with a higher goal in mind, and who tend to be responsible overall. 

Some people care about a breed standard and ability, and some people don't care what the dog looks like as long as it does the job well. IMO, one opinion isn't necessarily more right than the other.


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

christina chapman said:


> Some people care about a breed standard and ability, and some people don't care what the dog looks like as long as it does the job well. IMO, one opinion isn't necessarily more right than the other.


I guess it depends. Take Border collies, how is breeding to a breed standard for the showring, bettering the breed. Breeding for working ability on sheep is what that breed is traditionally all about. Most working bred Border collies I know would never make it in the showring. They are very variable in looks often depending on the landscape they are bred in. The Australian showbred BC on the other hand is very homogenous in looks and has never to this day ever made it in the Australian working sheepdog trials.

Sure they are often nice dogs and can make nice pets and sport dogs but they are for all intensive purposes very different from what their origins were all about. I dont really personally care as there are plenty of working bred collies out there to suit my purposes, but I know there are those to which it is absolute sacriledge. Kelpies are going down the same path.


----------



## christina chapman (Oct 9, 2011)

Lindsay Janes said:


> Did anyone have called the seller?


I didn't contact the seller myself, but I did send the ad information to some members of the Beauceron breed club. 


(Having typed that, I kind of feel bad that I'm not concerned about the poodle.)


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> That's a good question. While I don't think it's "wrong" to buy a pet or flyball dog per se, I think it's less generous, often naive, and sometimes elitist.
> 
> Shelter dogs are cheap, in need, make great pets, and are often more than capable of playing at a variety of activities. For the majority of dog owners what else is necessary? But who am I to say what is right or wrong; both of my "working dogs", although not from shelters, were given to me for free. It's pretty surprising what some people are willing to pay for a protection/sport dog too.


It probably depends on your point of view. Which do you love more, the dog/breed or the sport? If you love the sport more, you're more likely to get a dog designed for that sport. So if I *REALLY* loved flyball, I'd get a breed or sport breed mix that would stack the deck towards succeeding. If I loved my dog no matter what, I'd go and try out a bunch of different activities and see what they like and do best at and leave it that. I don't think either of those are necessarily wrong per se, just as long as enough thought is put into it.

But some people really want to do the best they can, so pick a dog from a breeder. I say this having one shelter dog (who was a very good herding Rottweiler...kills me that I couldn't have picked her up younger, she has beautiful instinct) and one dog from rescue (who is also training in herding and comes out for PSA every once in a while, but can't ever trial due to a neurological limp).


----------



## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> It probably depends on your point of view. Which do you love more, the dog/breed or the sport? If you love the sport more, you're more likely to get a dog designed for that sport. So if I *REALLY* loved flyball, I'd get a breed or sport breed mix that would stack the deck towards succeeding. If I loved my dog no matter what, I'd go and try out a bunch of different activities and see what they like and do best at and leave it that. I don't think either of those are necessarily wrong per se, just as long as enough thought is put into it.
> 
> But some people really want to do the best they can, so pick a dog from a breeder. I say this having one shelter dog (who was a very good herding Rottweiler...kills me that I couldn't have picked her up younger, she has beautiful instinct) and one dog from rescue (who is also training in herding and comes out for PSA every once in a while, but can't ever trial due to a neurological limp).


I agree that it depends on your interests. It would be difficult to find a shelter dog that can be successful at certain activities or levels of competition. How many schutzhund dogs come from the pound? How many obedience champions? Not many, but in all reality how many dog owners are headed in that direction anyway? Anybody in the market for a beauceron/poodle mix certainly isn't.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

isn't every domestic dog "breed" a designer breed ?
as long as there are dogs and people, dogs will be designed to suit people

it's the reasons for designing and how carefully the genes are mixed that are important in my book

seems painfully clear if you only breed for a look or image, you will obviously get a lot of bad baggage and health problems along the way
- same goes if you only breed for behavior ](*,)](*,)

but no matter the job or if it will even have one, most people still base a lot of decisions to buy on looks when they buy or rescue babies....pups have that effect on humans


----------



## christina chapman (Oct 9, 2011)

Sara Waters said:


> I guess it depends. Take Border collies, how is breeding to a breed standard for the showring, bettering the breed. Breeding for working ability on sheep is what that breed is traditionally all about. Most working bred Border collies I know would never make it in the showring.


I mentioned "breed standard and ability" with the intent to include form and function, not just looks. 
I 100% agree that breeding for the show ring is NOT a way to better a working breed.

I want my next Beauceron to look _and _act like a Beauceron....so from my perspective, that is breed standard. Maybe there is a better term to use...?

While many breeds' official standards do not actually support the breed function, there are some that have maintained it so a functional dog could still win in the breed ring. IMO, it is unfortunate that show and working lines are so separate; ideally, they'd go hand-in-hand. (Or maybe I still have some optimism that needs to get knocked out of me...? haha)

I still recall the first time I saw show-bred GSD puppies...they could hardly walk but were apparently full of "potential." I don't have any respect for those breeders either-doesn't seem ethical to breed such a dog. And a breed club and standard that supports it is just as unethical.


My point was more that I personally could accept the logic of a breeder having various motives (within reason), provided the end result was for a well-formed and functional dog. 

And if research showed that breeding in a poodle would eliminate some genetic issue in the Beauceron (hypothetically speaking), I could also see the purpose of the addition to breeding programs. (Didn't they do something like that with dalmatians and pointers?)
...but I think breeding a Beauceron and a Poodle every few months just to get Beaudoodles to adopt out for $550 is crap.


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

christina chapman said:


> While many breeds' official standards do not actually support the breed function, there are some that have maintained it so a functional dog could still win in the breed ring. IMO, it is unfortunate that show and working lines are so separate; ideally, they'd go hand-in-hand. (Or maybe I still have some optimism that needs to get knocked out of me...? haha)
> 
> .


Some optimsim I think. The working breeders I know have neither the time or inclination to run dogs around the showring, let alone spend hours doing their coats etc and live too far away to care. They are way more interested in breeding dogs that can work livestock. Nor do most show breeders know anything about working a dog for instance on sheep. If the dog isnt within a certain height range, doesnt have the right tip of the ear etc they are gone.
Different working conditions require different adjustments of physical traits and coat lengths and even build of the dog sometimes and really unless the dog has a physically sound, athletic body they are not going to be suitable and I dont think the good working breeder needs a breed standard to know that. 

The old style station bred cattle dog looks very different to the current showbred dogs as does the aussie showbred BC with its thick heavy coat and shorter stature to the taller leggier short coated collies that you often see working and suit our environment. You can always pick an aussie showbred BC, even from the rough coated working breds. I have to clip my showbred in summer or her thick long coat is a real liability with heat and grass seeds. Although fast she has not got the same top end speed as my working dogs when they open up in a big outrun.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

the show breeding philosophy is a no brainer ... why not keep that on the pet forums list of topics

but what about something that may (or may not ) pertain to dogs on thsi forum 
example :
"black malinois" ... have seen the term a few times on web sites when i wasn't even looking for em ....but sounded like a "feature" and was on working dog web sites .... a designer trend maybe ??

malinois in general :
have well bred mals always been "crack heads" ?? that seems to be the "in" word these days .... as opposed to "balanced" which i heard more of in past years
- will breeders who select for crack heads be making the breed better or worse in the long haul ?
- will they be developing a dog who is uncontrollable for the majority of owners who get em just to find a few select ones for niche work and hi level sport, etc ??
- why do i never hear crack head and gsd in the same sentence ?? 

- or is setting the bar high to get a few great ones the best way to breed ?
that would be my perfect breeder, as long as they keep a balanced overall focus and set health as a higher priority than behavior

obviously mother nature has a whole different philosophy than humans, and i see mostly bad long term effects from "human" dog breeding


----------



## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Sport dog breeding can be quite popular in flyball circles and agility. Jack Russels, Border Collies, Staffies, Whippets are frequently the breeds crossed together here. 

I don't agree with it personally. You should find what you want for your sport in a purebred dog. Just go to the right breeders.

As a poodle owner (standard) our breed is taken advantage of all over the place with these crazy crosses. I have found through Google, dobe, shepherd, husky, collie, mal, bouvier, wheaten and who knows how many others crossed with standards. This is not including the minis and toys that are crossed to make all sorts of oodles or poos.

Good standard poodle breeders, those who are striving to bring back skills needed for performance such as retrieving instinct, love of water, proper "working" conformation (as opposed to show ring style), drive, and terrain courage are few and far between. We don't need more "non shedding" crosses. Unfortunately, JQP is mostly unaware that the $2500 they just plunked down for a puppy will not get them a "non shedding" dog. What part of 1/2 of your dog is a lab or whatever and it's going to shed... a lot don't they understand? For some reason people have a phobia of poodles and want the poodle coat but not the dog itself. I don't know whether to be happy or sad about that. 

The showring and popular sire syndrome have not been kind to my breed. There are many who would love to see the poodle presented in the ring in a modified continental, a MUCH shorter more natural version of the bouffont do you see today. From the 1400s to the 1800s that natural clip was used to keep the dog swimming without being drowned by all the excess hair. The old guard that runs the Poodle Clubs and the professional handlers would probably rather die than see a modified clip or short sporting clip allowed in the ring.

I have a young male, unneutered, currently training and competing in obedience, rally, disc, dockdiving, and field training. He is a great example of a working dog for my breed but would never win in the showring. He is only 19" (his father and maternal grandfather are from Germany) and he is undocked, but he is full of drive with natural swimming ability and a great retrieve. Some have said he is not to "standard" because his eyes are a lighter colour and his ear leathers are not long enough and he has a slightly longer European style loin. Others are waiting for me to complete his health testing and get some titles on him. Two different camps, one leaning more towards bettering the breed and ignoring his slight confirmation flaws to get his temperament and drive.

It must be difficult for those who have a truly split breed like GSDs, labs, springers, mals, etc.


----------



## Tracy Collins (Nov 22, 2011)

Bravo ! I also own a standard poodle who has never had a "poodle" haircut and can attest that they are smart and athletic dogs (and if you keep the hair cut short are remarkably easy to maintain.) I spend far less time grooming my poodle than I do my GSD. I also detest that they are the -oodle half of all these poorly bred mutts. There are a number of non-shedding breeds in addition to poodles. There's no need to "invent" a new "breed."


----------



## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Many years ago my family had a poodle when I was a kid. Although she was regularly clipped she always had simple puppy cut I think they called it. None of the ridiculous looking clips you see. She was high drive, extremely athletic, bold and would have made an awesome working dog I reckon. She loved water and would dive into the breaking surf to retrieve her ball, totally unconcerned if she were dumped. She would run herself into the ground if you let her and she was very smart. As kids we taugth her all sorts of tricks and she was very willing. She wanted a ton of exercise LOL. Brilliant dog.


----------

