# Best time to worm



## brad robert

I was wondering if anyone had a "best time" to worm a dog e.g early in the day before a meal etc for the most effective treatment possible?? Or is this not something to worry about as long as they get it into them.


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## Faisal Khan

Does the dog have worms? If yes, then follow vets advice as he will choose meds based on the type of worm identified. If no or you do not know then run a fecal test first.


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## brad robert

No the dog doesnt have worms or at least has shown no signs of it.I just wanted to know when people found the best time of day or if they had a ritual the followed e.g a fast or first thing in morning etc 

Its just a question out of curiosity


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## Connie Sutherland

Faisal Khan said:


> Does the dog have worms? If yes, then follow vets advice as he will choose meds based on the type of worm identified. If no or you do not know then run a fecal test first.


+1

I don't de-worm my dogs, who are adults, without a fecal (except heartworm).

And then there are different meds, depending .... for example, there's one for roundworms and hookworms but not tapeworms. Another one is for roundworms, hookworms, and some kinds of tapeworms. There's also a just-tapeworms med.

There's no across-the-board instruction for all de-worming.


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## Tammy St. Louis

alot of times worms dont show up on fecals, i have done a few fecals where it comes back negative, and the dog did end up having worms, i think the fecal just pics up on the eggs so if they are no eggs , just adults it wont show up


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## Connie Sutherland

Well, if I saw evidence, I'd de-worm. 

Tapeworms, for example, are often far easier for you to detect than the vet doing a fecal, because the segments are usually on the outside of the poop (not inside) and become dried up tiny enough to be pretty invisible quite quickly. 

I didn't mean that I'd deny evidence if a fecal didn't agree with it. I meant that I don't de-worm unless I have a reason to, with adult dogs.



Of course, there are different fecal tests, too (suspension and flotation).

I have a pretty good explanation of them somewhere. I'll dig it up.


ETA: Posted below


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## Connie Sutherland

http://dogs.about.com/od/caninediseases/tp/Common-Canine-Intestinal-Parasites.htm


also http://www.2ndchance.info/parasite-dog.htm#S1
QUOTE:
Some parasites are large enough to be seen in the dog’s stool. When owners bring those to their veterinarian, the parasites can usually be identified. This goes for tapeworms and roundworms and a few others. However, the rest of the common parasites of dogs are too small to be seen with the unaided eye. In those cases, your veterinarian will look microscopially for the parasites, their eggs or cysts in stool specimens that you bring.

When parasites are in your dog in very large numbers, the veterinarian may be able to see them in a fresh* suspension* (“smear”) of the feces placed on a slide with some saline and examined under the microscope. That is the most rapid screening test a veterinarian can do.

But fresh *direct suspensions* (smears) miss over half the pets that carry parasites. They are quite good at detecting giardia and other protozoa that live within the intestine in vast numbers, but they often miss hookworms, roundworms, and whipworms. The later parasites are attached to your pet’s intestinal lining. The vet is looking for their eggs, not the worms, and those eggs are passed only in numbers reflecting the number of parasite and their maturity and even then, only intermittently.

*Direct suspension smears *are best used to pass the time with clients while a technician runs a* fecal floatation *specimen in their laboratory area – about 5-10 minutes. Even if the *smear *is positive for one parasite, there may be others found in the *floatation*. Multiple infections with several species of parasite is quite common in pets.

There are a few parasites (strongyloides) that do not float to the top of the liquids used to concentrate them in the *flotation *methods. Some of those remain on the bottom of the floatation tube and can be found there, but most of those are picked up on the* direct suspension *or missed.

Tapeworm (segments) and tapeworm eggs are rarely found mixed with feces. They pass out of your dog on the surface of the feces. So do not be surprised if your vet does not detect them even though you have. You need to specifically bring the suspicious objects in. Any time you bring in a suspected parasite, place it in a baggie with a moist paper towel using gloves. When they come to me shriveled and dried up like a mummy, it can be quite hard to firmly identify them. Many can be plumped up again with saline or distilled water - but that takes time.

*Fecal floatation *is a way to concentrate parasite eggs and cysts on a slide to make it more likely they will be found. All techniques use a solution that causes eggs to float to the top and most other debris to sink to the bottom of the container. Sometimes the passage of time is all that is required. In other cases the process can be speeded up by centrifugation. Some commonly used flotation liquids are sodium nitrite (Fecasol®), sugar and zinc sulfate. Saturated table salt will work, but it is less efficient. END from http://www.2ndchance.info/parasite-dog.htm#S1


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## brad robert

Connie Sutherland said:


> +1
> 
> I don't de-worm my dogs, who are adults, without a fecal (except heartworm).
> 
> And then there are different meds, depending .... for example, there's one for roundworms and hookworms but not tapeworms. Another one is for roundworms, hookworms, and some kinds of tapeworms. There's also a just-tapeworms med.
> 
> There's no across-the-board instruction for all de-worming.


Connie im not following so why are there worm tablets called allwormers??

I have never known anyone to get a fecal done for just a simple worming this seems like lining the vets pocket for nothing:???:


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## Bob Scott

I worm puppies only unless a yearly fecal test warrants it in adults. I haven't had to de worm an adult dog in many years. 
The yearly test is just one of a couple I do every year in annual checkups with my dogs.


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## Sarah Platts

Fecal tests can miss a good bit depending on several factors. I think the chance of infestations depends on what you do with them and their access to a vector. My search dogs are out in the woods a good bit. Usually have to treat one or more for giardia every year.


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## Connie Sutherland

brad robert said:


> Connie im not following so why are there worm tablets called allwormers?? ... I have never known anyone to get a fecal done for just a simple worming this seems like lining the vets pocket for nothing:???:





Connie Sutherland said:


> ... And then there are different meds, depending .... for example, there's one for roundworms and hookworms but not tapeworms. * Another one is for roundworms, hookworms, and some kinds of tapeworms.* There's also a just-tapeworms med. ...


All Wormer would be the one in bold. I believe it treats two tapeworms, but I don't remember which at the moment. (I think it doesn't treat the tapeworm that rural dogs who live around sheep and rodents get.)



_
"I have never known anyone to get a fecal done for just a simple worming"_


I guess it depends on exposure and other factors. My dogs aren't puppies (I mentioned that I was talking about my adult dogs), and I've treated for roundworms twice since 1976 .... not at all in recent decades.

So for me, I guess I'd be stuffing the pockets of the de-worming manufacturers if I did regular de-worming.


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## Connie Sutherland

Sarah Platts said:


> Fecal tests can miss a good bit depending on several factors. I think the chance of infestations depends on what you do with them and their access to a vector. My search dogs are out in the woods a good bit. Usually have to treat one or more for giardia every year.


Yes, giardia and the other protozoa are different from the worms that I think the O.P. was talking about. 

Giardia is hard to diagnose, for one thing.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2102&aid=739
QUOTE: _If we highly suspect infection with Giardia, but can not find the organism, should we treat anyway? This is often done. Because it is often difficult to detect Giardia in the feces of dogs with diarrhea, if there are no other obvious causes of diarrhea (e.g.; the dog did not get into the garbage several nights ago) we often treat the animal for giardiasis.
_

For another thing, it can recur even after treatment and a post-treatment negative. (See the same link.)



ETA
All JMO. Not a health professional.


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## Connie Sutherland

Connie Sutherland said:


> All Wormer would be the one in bold. ....


I meant to add that I'd be reluctant to use something to kill several kinds of different worms if I had no evidence that the dog had worms of any kind.

And I see the dogs' poop pretty quickly. I'd see tapeworm segments. I'd be very reluctant to treat for tapeworms in those circumstances, having seen none.

JMO, in my situation.


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## Lynn Cheffins

"Canine Allwormer" is the generic ( and less expensive)form of Drontal Plus http://www.drugs.com/vet/drontal-plus-small-dogs-can.html

deworming requirements can vary due to lifestyle, dog numbers and exposure, climate, diet etc 

some tapeworm segments can be pretty small and some types (hydatid) can have serious human health consequences


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## Bob Scott

Lynn Cheffins said:


> "Canine Allwormer" is the generic ( and less expensive)form of Drontal Plus http://www.drugs.com/vet/drontal-plus-small-dogs-can.html
> 
> deworming requirements can vary due to lifestyle, dog numbers and exposure, climate, diet etc
> 
> some tapeworm segments can be pretty small and some types (hydatid) can have serious human health consequences



I would also add that some eggs can remain in the ground for a very long time so repetition can be a common requirement no matter how careful it's done.


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## Connie Sutherland

Lynn Cheffins said:


> ... deworming requirements can vary due to lifestyle, dog numbers and exposure, climate, diet etc ...


Absolutely.


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