# Leerburg Pack Structure Video



## Katie McLellan (Jul 22, 2008)

I have a very dominant, female Malinois around 5 months of age. I decided to check out the Leerburg Pack Structure video and wonder if anyone here has utilized the techniques, particularly the initial 'social isolation' phase. If so, what were your results? Do you recommend it? 

Thank you,
Kate


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

What's your pup doing that is dominant?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Sometimes there is good info to be had from videos. It would be better if we knew a bit more about your situation before we start recommending any video. You could start with where your dog is from????

What situations is the dog being dominant, and how are you responding to the dog????


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

At 5 months, it is easy for normal puppy behaviors to seem like dominant behaviors. Please post video of your pup's dominant behaviors or go and see a dog trainer in person about your pup.

I agree with the social isolation phase to a degree for ALL dogs. I don't do it as a phase. To me, it is a mindset. A way of living with a dog. 

I express it in my #2 rule: Don't touch me, I'll touch you.

For a puppy, this is taught through:

1. Jumping on me uninvited never gets a reaction. 4-on-the-floor gets a reward.
2. Self-control games with food and toys and sit-stay for petting.

I also express it in my #1 rule: Your world revolves around me.

A puppy must give me calm focus before receiving anything (with the exception of a potty break).

These give a beautiful result. I can't speak to the behavior of your puppy. I encourage you to avoid supressing/punishing behaviors now. You can do a lot of damage to your relationship with your dog and your future training goals. I learned this from my own mistakes.

A NILIF program is a behavior modification technique in which the dog must *perform progressively more submissive behaviors * to recieve anything. This could work very nicely for your puppy. 

A common way to start out is to have the dog sit before it gets ANYTHING - food, water, petting, exercise.

But the beauty of the method is lost if the handler stops there. Once the dog sits before receiving anything, the next step is have the dog lie down before receiving anything. Then to lie on it's side befoe recieving anything.

The ultimate goal is for the dog to choose to offer submissive positions freely and willingly.


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## marta wade (Apr 17, 2008)

I am only here to learn and will not offer advice on this. I am curious while I know all dogs should respect their owner but in regards to puppy raising wouldn't it be very different depending on your goals such as for very well manner pet or service dog vs. sport/police? I have usually been instructed to allow and encourage behaviors that in a pet I would discourage.
Marta


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

A puppy that shows problems in sport work because you have explained that you do not want it's feet on you will not be all that great at sport work to begin with. Dogs think situationally, so what happens at home is not the same as on the field.

This silly sport mentality has to stop. It is of no use to anyone. If you do not want your dog to jump on you, then TEACH the dog not to. It is your lump of clay, not your breeders or your trainers.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

marta wade said:


> I am only here to learn and will not offer advice on this. I am curious while I know all dogs should respect their owner but in regards to puppy raising wouldn't it be very different depending on your goals such as for very well manner pet or service dog vs. sport/police? I have usually been instructed to allow and encourage behaviors that in a pet I would discourage.
> Marta


Marta,

Suppressing behaviors is usually problematic, but good (house) manners can be taught without supressing behaviors (on the training field).

It is this simple: Reward the good, ignore the bad, correct the dangerous.

An example: I can teach a dog not to jump on me without inhibiting the dog. I have a Service Dog in training now. I taught her that it is more rewarding to keep her feet on the floor than to jump. (I ignored her jumping on me, and rewarded her for keeping her feet on the floor.) So as an adult, she has no inhibition for putting her feet up on her handler to perform tasks, but she chooses to keep her feet on the floor if she isn't otherwise intructed.


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## Katie McLellan (Jul 22, 2008)

My biggest issue is her aggression towards strangers and specifically strange dogs. If we are out for a walk, she is going to growl and potentially lunge at a stranger walking by whether they so much as glance her way, or not. With strange dogs, she will growl and behave very threateningly. If they are running out in the yard, she is quite happy to chase them, but the second they stop she will be snarling appearing quite vicious in their face, but doesn't bite them. (My interpretation of that is that she is establishing her rank with them.) She is also toy and food possessive with my other dog. She has no problem with me being near her food, or touching it, same with toys. However, if i am preparing her food, she doesn't want my other dog anywhere near the process. 

I got the pack structure video to see if I could garner some good advice from it. This may seem a silly question, but how do you know when the crate/social isolation period is over. They say when your dog is calm/submissive...does this mean all of the time, most of the time...Just curious about your experiences with this method. 

Thank you!

Kate


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie McLellan said:


> My biggest issue is her aggression towards strangers and specifically strange dogs. If we are out for a walk, she is going to growl and potentially lunge at a stranger walking by whether they so much as glance her way, or not. With strange dogs, she will growl and behave very threateningly. If they are running out in the yard, she is quite happy to chase them, but the second they stop she will be snarling appearing quite vicious in their face, but doesn't bite them. (My interpretation of that is that she is establishing her rank with them.) She is also toy and food possessive with my other dog. She has no problem with me being near her food, or touching it, same with toys. However, if i am preparing her food, she doesn't want my other dog anywhere near the process.
> 
> Kate


Then what? What do you do?

In what situation is your dog loose with strange dogs ("happy to chase them, snarling", etc.)?

What is the toy thing? Are there toys left out with both dogs? 

And I have to ask what this is about: _However, if i am preparing her food, she doesn't want my other dog anywhere near the process.

_


Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ... If you do not want your dog to jump on you, then TEACH the dog not to.


'Zackly. So more info needed.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I have an easy solution for you. It will take work, but you can deal with this quickly WHILE training behaviors that are essential for later training.

Here is the premise: Your pup cannot lunge at another being IF it is focused on you. Focusing on you is appropriate. It prevents the dog from amping itself up and getting reactive.

Here are the Rules:

1. Your pup is NEVER allowed to interact with other dogs for any reason. Not even your dogs. Your pup learns to be SOCIAL to other dogs without interacting.

2. Your pup is not allowed to interact with people. Your pup learns to be social without interacting.

3. Your pup is on a leash (or crated) at ALL times.

Here is the Way:

Train your dog to focus on you. It's simple. Put pup on leash in a quiet and boring space. Have food treats and a toy on you. Pup will get bored and look at you. Say "Yes" and offer the toy. Play tug. Pup wins the tug. Walk out of the room and ignore pup. Eventually pup will follow you. When pup looks at you, say "yes" and give a treat. Then RUN back to the tug and initiate a game of tug. Pup wins.

What you want to do is have a session that is so rewarding that the pup learns instantly. We can call it "one-session imprinting." 

Give a treat or play every time your pup looks at you. Seriously.

Once your pup is looking at you frequently to get a reward, then start to put it on cue. I use the dog's name as a cue. Your cue means "turn to me and look at me." So say "Pup!" Pup looks at you and you give the pup the hugest reward it has gotten in it's life.

Now you're going to ask for attention from your pup 100 or more times per day and reward it highly. This is a good time to start attention-heeling. When you've got this amazingly awesome, then you can start to add distractions.

What are your distractions? Your other dogs. Your family. Making dog-dinner. Your neighbors. Strange dogs. Familiar dogs. Passive dogs. Active dogs. 

Work on building up to greater distraction SLOWLY. This is a loong post in itself. Basically, the dog starts to look at another dog, you say "Pup!" and pup spins around to focus on you and you pop a treat in pup's mouth. The pup is learning to break its focus away and direct focus on you. 

You pup will learn 1) you are the coolest thing in the world. 2) you are more fun that lunging at another dog 3) Choosing you over anything else is always most highly rewarded

Then, you've got to do 4) not choosing you over anything is always CORRECTED.

This is a lot of training. It is NOT the fastest way. But, with a pup, you will not suppress behaviors you might later need. You won't cause conflict between you and the dog. You guys will learn to work together. Your dog will learn skills it will need later. You pup will learn the recall, call-off and attention heeling all at once.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

As I said before, I think you have a normal mal puppy. You need to be more proactive, to get her to do what you want. I did not have it laid out so neatly - but from personal experience, what Anne Vaini says WORKS. That is pretty much what I did when raising Candy, then Cyko, and then Havoc, and I am happy with what I've got now.

And, WHY exactly are you letting her chase and snarl at strange dogs??


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> ... And, WHY exactly are you letting her chase and snarl at strange dogs??





Connie Sutherland said:


> ... In what situation is your dog loose with strange dogs ("happy to chase them, snarling", etc.)? .... more info needed.



That is such a red flag part of the O.P. that it really should be detailed and addressed. JMO.:wink:


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## Katie McLellan (Jul 22, 2008)

Firstly, I apologize for not fully explaining the situation. Grimm plays well with my dog and my sister's dog and we will often let them play together in the backyard. However, a while back, one of the neighbor's dogs got out and started running around like nuts in the back yard. Her dog is entirely friendly and Grimm seemed to just be chasing her like the other two dogs and so I said, Ok, maybe she's ok. Once the other dog stopped running, Grimm got snarly and I immediately removed her from the situation. 

When we are on walks, I always bring her ball and if I see another dog approaching, or stranger, I will move to the side and use the tennis ball to get her attention on me. I would say it works a majority of the time, but not 100%. I would like to get to a point where we can walk by without making an issue of the other dog/person.

Again, I apologize. I feel that a lot of folks here think I'm a moron and I don't mean to be. I just hoped to get a little advice on how to address the issue so that I can do so correctly.

Thank you for the advice given.
Kate


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Kate,

If a dog is being raising for any dog sport or intense training discipline, the dog cannot be allowed to run free with other dogs, even if they "get along." The dog will get all of it's needs from the other dogs, then won't respond as well for training. The dog's focus will suffer.

In addition, you can't control the other dogs. If another dog acts aggressively towards your pup, you can expect to have a true dog-vs-dog aggressive dog. That makes training and trialing (not to mention taking the dog for a walk) very difficult.

Your pup won't be missing out because you will provide all the companionship and play your pup needs. Obedience is simply "organized play." Take away the play by letting your dog play in other ways and then we only have organization. That won't get you the focus and enthusiasm you need and want from your pup.

Stopping for a distraction (while walking) is a HUGE mistake, and one that everyone does unless they are trained otherwise. It is one foolproof way to bring out any issues the dog may have. Do this instead:

Get your dog's undivided attention when you are half a block away from the person/distraction. Start rewarding at a high rate (use food). Walk FASTER than normal. The moment before you meet/pass the individual, you and your dog should be animated. You may need to make a RIGHT turn to maintain your pups focus. You should talk to your pup continuously to keep its attention. The INSTANT you pass the distraction, REWARD HIGHLY.


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