# Do hips worsen with age?



## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Would it make that big of a difference to xray the hip of a two year old vs. say, a five year old? If a young dog who xrayed well later gets dysplasia, does he still have any value in breeding? I mean it's still the same dog, still passing on the same genes.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes, they call it DJD. Degenerative Joint Disease.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Yes, they call it DJD. Degenerative Joint Disease.



What he said. 

DFrost


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Lyn Chen said:


> Would it make that big of a difference to xray the hip of a two year old vs. say, a five year old? If a young dog who xrayed well later gets dysplasia, does he still have any value in breeding?


According to OFA, if a dog xrays clear (Fair to Excellent) that dog will never get hip dysplasia. So in this case no, the hips shouldn't change with age. 

If however the dog has hip dysplasia, then yes, you could assume that over time it's going to get worse, as more and more arthritis builds up.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So we should go with the OFA?????:-k :-k 

I have seen dogs with exellent hips have difficulty at an older age. Wear and tear occur, but this is something different.


----------



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

My ASD's orthopedic surgeon examined and xrayed, at my request, my working dog's (Jake) hips. Jake was five at the time. He said Jake's hips looked ok and if nothing clinical (limping, etc.) was happening that Jake should be just fine. So I think HD is something they either have or don't have, it's not something they can get. 

You could probably google that type of question and come up with some information.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

As I understand it, HD is more of a socket/ball or femoral neck problem, and DJD is the rate that a dogs socket/ball deteriorates.

Both have a genetic and environmental factor, but they are not the same.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

so, when considering whether or not to breed a dog that OFA'd "good" or better at 2 yrs old, then had a DX of DJD at 5 yrs old, one should also consider the "wear and tear" the dog's been thru in the 3 yrs difference? 

cause the DJD isn't necessarily a function of "lurking" HD, it's simply of function of response to working conditions?

and if a dog's hips show DJD at 5 yrs of age under "normal" (i LOVE that word, don't y'all???) even if they OFA'd well at 2, would we want to breed that?? i mean, who cares about OFA if the hips ultimately can't stand up to normal useage?


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ann, Most start breeding after the dog is cleared for HD (aprox 2 yrs old). Even if the hips show "normal wear and tear" at 5, ther may have been a number of breedings in the mean time. 
I don't think "normal wear and tear" would stop me from breeding to a particular dog.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I cannot even begin to tell you how many dogs were taken out of the gene pool for slightly bad hips, meanwhile their worthless brother screwed himself sterile. AND produced bad hips anyway, even though he was excellent.

What good did it do?? Just about nothing, as we still have hip dysplasia and in about the same numbers.

Numbers, which are completely artificial, because if I show you your x-ray and the hips are obviously bad, you are not going to waste your $$$$ sending them in.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Then theres the people who write a dog off because the prelim's were bad, or the vet said the prelim xrays looked bad, when there's countless of instances where a dog will look like he might have HD at 10 months old, but it turns out at 2 years old that the dog just wasn't done growing properly. And there's the vets that just don't have a clue about how to position a dog properly for the xray.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

<<<And there's the vets that just don't have a clue about how to position a dog properly for the xray.>>>

I use one vet for all of our x rays. He's a former MWD vet and is certified to do OFA as well. While I don't bother with OFA for our working dogs, I use this vet exclusively. Some of the best hip/shoulder,spine xrays I've ever seen. Over the years (he says somewhat braggardly) I've learned to read xrays rather well myself.

DFrost


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Even though OFA and PennHIP are not by any means perfect in their assessment of hips, I think they are at least on the right track. No doubt if people would be required to submit ALL results/X-Rays we might have a better understanding of HD concerning heredity . I really don't think one dogs hip/elbow etc. results is the "key" in determining to breed or not to breed, but if a breeder was to look at the vertical pedigree with OFA/PennHIP evals it just might give a better idea of what that particular dog may produce. http://www.offa.org/hovanart.pdf. I applaud responsible breeders who have various health tests/certification done on their dogs...some even offer incentives to puppy purchasers who have their dogs tested. 

Purchasing a pup is a crap shoot and I do realize that just because the Sire and Dam's hips rated Excellent/Good does not guarantee that my pup won't have HD.....that being said, I personally would opt to purchase a pup from a breeder who has their dogs tested versus one who does not.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Ann, Most start breeding after the dog is cleared for HD (aprox 2 yrs old). Even if the hips show "normal wear and tear" at 5, ther may have been a number of breedings in the mean time.
> I don't think "normal wear and tear" would stop me from breeding to a particular dog.


too true, wouldn't stop me either. i guess what i'm not really getting is how "degenerative" hip disease isn't related to HD....the word's getting in my way. why would simple wear and tear be called degenerative? can anyone help me on this?


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1569&articleid=271


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

thank you susan!! 

once again--terminology rears it's ugly head!

so brix will end up with secondary DJD, while a dog w/OFA'd hips at 2 would be a LOT more likely to have primary DJD at 5 yrs old. i'm good with that--and again--thanks for the link


----------

