# Littermates full or half littermates WHY!!!



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Keep on seeing on different websites, forums, listings the same stuff over and over and over again. Something along these lines being written This dog or stud or mother is litter mate to or mother is blah blah blah of the great so and so. Folks why is this that you feel you need to do this?

Just because your dogs littermate and half sibling is the great so and so DOESN'T mean your dog is any good for better or worse. Every pup / dog is based and tested on a individual basis. Top genetics only lessens that the chance of crap being produced in doesn't guarantee anything. Puppies are a crap shoot no matter the parents. You never know what your getting 100% to its matured and you have accomplished why you bought the pup / dog in the first place.

I also love the people that pic a pup at 6 - 8 weeks old and say this is your next MWD or police dog, oh really how do you know this, are you psychic cause if you are please I want to hire you it would save me all the hard work of imprinting and so forth and so on.

I can see advertising the parents because its there genetic makeup but to say your dog or pup is a littermate to such and such and post pics and videos of the other littermates does your dogs NO justice if people have the slightest clue on how to pic a pup.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> Keep on seeing on different websites, forums, listings the same stuff over and over and over again. Something along these lines being written This dog or stud or mother is litter mate to or mother is blah blah blah of the great so and so. Folks why is this that you feel you need to do this?
> 
> Just because your dogs littermate and half sibling is the great so and so DOESN'T mean your dog is any good for better or worse. Every pup / dog is based and tested on a individual basis. Top genetics only lessens that the chance of crap being produced in doesn't guarantee anything. Puppies are a crap shoot no matter the parents. You never know what your getting 100% to its matured and you have accomplished why you bought the pup / dog in the first place.
> 
> I can see advertising the parents because its there genetic makeup but to say your dog or pup is a littermate to such and such and post pics and videos of the other littermates does your dogs NO justice if people have the slightest clue on how to pic a pup.


can give some additional info on the family of of the dogs concerned...I do agree it does not give additional info on the individual dog.

I am sure that you like to see what the family of the dog is about, if that information is available...to find out what the lines are producing. Can never have too much info...unless it clouds your judgement...


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

I agree Joby.

I was just popping back on just to clarify that I agree and understand there are proven litters and also there is people that can pick a pup with good hopes for future application. just to avoid confict of this thread.

But still no guarantees of a pup at 6-8 weeks old no matter the lines, defently no guarantee of people showing videos of littermates that have nothing to do with the immediate pups ( meaning the actual biological parents ) or saying this is the littermate to so and so, I think we all know thats nothing more than a sales pitch. I know I have as well as others that there has been some really nice producers from a litter and others that most likely should not be reporduced.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

By looking at litter mates of the parents of a puppy you're considering buying. You might be able to see the genetic potential
of the parents if they weren't titled.


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

i would rather get a dog from breeding that consistently produces high % of dogs demonstrating quality X in each breeding, so do want to know what litter mates etc & etc are like. if the line consistently produces quality X, demonstrated in multiple dogs, i like my chances of getting quality X even better in the dog i get. if you know nothing about any of the litter mates, or other dogs produced by either parent, the pup you get is much more of a gamble, IMO.

should litter mates, other dogs produced etc & etc be used to brag or advertise, or compensate for deficiencies in the dog at hand? no.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Because I can do no work or training with my dog, breed her/him and still get a good price for the puppies by riding on the coat-tails of those with related dogs who actually invested the time and effort to title or otherwise prove their dogs.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> Because I can do no work or training with my dog, breed her/him and still get a good price for the puppies by riding on the coat-tails of those with related dogs who actually invested the time and effort to title or otherwise prove their dogs.


that too....lol


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

It's about genetics, percentages and what has consitently worked before....

It allows you to have a snapshot of what is produced by xxx lines. I for one want to know as much info as possible. Pups are always a crap shoot, however I rather roll the dice on something that has worked before....


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Some will take a shot at breeding to a litter mate if the well know stud isn't available for whatever reason.


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

You're looking at the consistency, traits, temperament, drives in the siblings. Can give you insight if the breeding produced a one dog wonder, or it produced good, consistent dogs throughout. 

Yes, pups at 8 weeks are always a crap shoot for a variety of reasons, but looking at the total picture is good research and hopefully gives you some insight as part of your selection process.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Many here all scoff at sport but if you know how to look and who to talk to going to a event and watching the dogs work, comparing, looking at there genetics talking to the trial helpers and training helpers talking to others who may have siblings or other related dogs or worked related dogs pay attention what the different lines bring study the family trees.
How the hell do you people here with the Dutch dogs really really know what you have and how it came about. I'm sure the Dutch know there lines and there neighbors lines. Who's dogs will compliment each others who to out cross to who else to line breed to with some certainty.
I watch the KNVP videos but the people standing at the side lines really know what and who they are watching. The KNVP people seem to be a fairly tight bunch. JMO from the far outside just watching


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Many here all scoff at sport but if you know how to look and who to talk to going to a event and watching the dogs work, comparing, looking at there genetics talking to the trial helpers and training helpers talking to others who may have siblings or other related dogs or worked related dogs pay attention what the different lines bring study the family trees.
> How the hell do you people here with the Dutch dogs really really know what you have and how it came about. I'm sure the Dutch know there lines and there neighbors lines. Who's dogs will compliment each others who to out cross to who else to line breed to with some certainty.
> I watch the KNVP videos but the people standing at the side lines really know what and who they are watching. The KNVP people seem to be a fairly tight bunch. JMO from the far outside just watching


are the dutch dogs not from sport????


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Yea understand all of what has been written but the main point I am trying to throw out there is People say here is the mom or dad of the pups and they are half or fully related to so and so. Here is videos of so and so.

To me this means absolutely Jack because yea the full or half littermates look great and have achieved this and this but and are proven producers this doesn't mean that the father or mother are worth a dam. So here people are throwing out videos of so and so that are not even the parents of the pup, but because this great dog is related means to some people that there dogs are great and are going to be producers.

How many litters do you know that have produced 100% litters that were all top notch workers and proven producers of themselves. And what I mean everyone is a bad ass working machine( dual purpose, national competitor or world champ ). Anybody who says they have produced this is a bullshit artist and a crook.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> are the dutch dogs not from sport????


yeah, but if you read the statement Mike said, I didn't get anything saying they weren't....


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> are the dutch dogs not from sport????


 
Your bitch go in heat yet? LOL


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

You are right Harry a lot of people use this as a good marketing of a litter or kennel. It doesn't hurt to have a half sibling or a litter mate that is the tearing things up. On the flip side... History has show that some of the best workers are not always the best producers, its often the litter mate that has not been campaigned, just been a club dog, been a pet, the dog is fugly, ect...


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> are the dutch dogs not from sport????


Yes but its a Dutch sport all Dutch dogs and its in Holland like I said its a tight bunch and sport they know whats what with there dog's and sport. Explains why registration and papers ain't necessary


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> Your bitch go in heat yet? LOL


nope...

future litter announcement to be posted IF pups are confirmed...

"DS X from decent dogs, should be good for something...
a few lame videos of Dam here:"


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> nope...
> 
> future litter announcement to be posted IF pups are confirmed...
> 
> ...


 
DAMN FO REAL!! I'll take one.......


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> DAMN FO REAL!! I'll take one.......


blah diddy blah blah blah...
I was thinking of trying to trade with ya, but had nothing to trade.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> blah diddy blah blah blah...
> I was thinking of trying to trade with ya, but had nothing to trade.


trade what?


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

joby becker said:


> blah diddy blah blah blah...
> I was thinking of trying to trade with ya, but had nothing to trade.


 
hey text me! \\:d/


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> hey text me! \\:d/


TEXT???? NO...my phone has no keyboard and is tiny..LOL
was talking of trading pups...if it works out this time....


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> TEXT???? NO...my phone has no keyboard and is tiny..LOL
> was talking of trading pups...if it works out this time....


 
you wouldn't want mongrel Pitbull looking pups anyway...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> you wouldn't want mongrel Pitbull looking pups anyway...











I am a bullbreed guy at heart......bully looking dogs of THAT breeding would be right up my alley...

NO THE DOG IS NOT IN HEAT YET...


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Now thats a total package bitch there Joby, shes a nice worker from what you have posted with good gentics and a substantial bitch. Thats a dog to be proud to own there. U defently have done good by her dude. Also enjoyed visiting your homepage, I thought I was the only one that liked that group, glad to see others have good taste.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> Now thats a total package bitch there Joby, shes a nice worker from what you have posted with good gentics and a substantial bitch. Thats a dog to be proud to own there. U defently have done good by her dude.


thanks Harry, appreciate the kind words...
I try...she is a better dog than I am a trainer for her...

that picture is trick angle though, no stretching, but close and above the dog to make her look more bully... becuase I like bullbreeds too...
here is normal pic...to be more honest....
PMed you with my new phone number...


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## Leri Hanson (Apr 3, 2008)

I keep reading breeding is a crap shoot. It reminds me of a tag line.....

"If you think breeding is a crap shoot, you should shoot the crap you have"


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Leri Hanson said:


> I keep reading breeding is a crap shoot. It reminds me of a tag line.....
> 
> "If you think breeding is a crap shoot, you should shoot the crap you have"












Man no reason for you to advertise your own dog for you above comment, but thanks for the advertising you got here


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