# Young Rott and horses-need help or a new home



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

My daughter has a 5 month old rottie pup who has grown up at the horse barn where she works, trains and gives lessons. This pup has no fear of the horses and will go out right in front of a horse. She has tried everything to educate this pup about horses to no avail. The pup even wants to go up to lick the horse's face. She is now considering rehoming this puppy for its safety and the riders at the barn. Does anyone have any suggestions? She has trained all breeds of dogs-this is her first rottie-but never have we come across one that is so stubborn about staying away from the horses. She hates giving up but at this point with the weather so nice and people out riding everyday, she is considering a new home for her.
If anyone knows someone who would give this pup a good home please send me a message. She is 5 months, been raised with dogs, cats, housebroken, great dispostion, is a velcro dog and all around nice girl. She is from registered parents but the litter was not registered. She has had all her vaccinations. She lives in the St. Charles MO area. Here's a pic of her at about 2-3 months.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157629630127511/


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

What exactly is the problem ? The pup needs to learn some awareness around horses ?

Funny thing I have found is that dogs who are non threatening toward horses often have little problem with them.


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Really? What's wrong with a leash? Am I missing something?


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Maggie if she is not rehomed needs to learn to be a barn dog during the day. Leashes are great but not something a barn dog has on it during the day being lead around by an owner. Some horses are tolerate of dogs, others ust as soon run a dog down. Horses can be deadly to dogs so Maggie needs to learn respect of them. If you do not work around barns and horses and people riding in and out you can not understand the problem. Dogs there are not tied up but learn the limitations of the barns and horses or they are not welcomed. Lisa manages the barns and works everyday of the year including holidays so her dogs are always with her and go home with her at night. Although Maggie knows basic obedience she is quite stubborn about her fascination with the horses. The last thing Lisa wants to do is rehome her but she will if it is best for the puppy. Just hoping someone might have an idea that will help. Otherwise she will look for a home for her.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

The dog's name is Maggie, right ?


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Oh hi Maggie-yes my daughter named her Maggie. She's a beautiul girl. Good name right?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Pup sounds exactly what a lot of people would want in a barn dog, not reactive????


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

vicki dickey said:


> Oh hi Maggie-yes my daughter named her Maggie. She's a beautiul girl. Good name right?


Yes 

Tie the dog out whiist she's young and can't be supervised, save her getting stood on or kicked. I've had a few dogs around horses, never had any problems at all. Pup will learn to keep out of the way of their feet as she gets experience,,,,no fancy tricks required,, just common sense.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Is the dog fascinated with the horses or just doesn't leave them alone?? That sounds like the same thing to me.

I agree with Maggie. I find nothing wrong with leashes or ties, or the tack room, office, or a spare stall. Saves the rehoming drama.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

That is what Lisa is doing right now-Maggie is in her office at the barn (yes it is heated and has AC)-when she can not watch her. This being a very busy time of year she feels bad that the pup has to be confined so much. Usually by 5 months the dogs are able to stay out and know their place. Maggie has no sense with the horses and seems to think they are big dogs. She has been around them since 8 weeks so why she is doing this now seems odd. Lisa hasnt given up yet but it doesnt hurt to get ideas and so many people on here have good ones.


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

If she is opposed to tying the dog up or confining her away from the horses, how about an e-collar to make being too close to the horses an uncomfortable place?


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## Jill Lyden (May 25, 2011)

I've been around horses and dogs for 31 years and I'd never expect a 5 month old puppy to "just know" to stay away from horses. And remember, Rotties are stock dogs - of course they have very little fear of big prey animals. Leash the pup, crate the pup, confine the pup when she can't be supervised. And do it for another 6 months, don't give her a chance to do it wrong for the next 6 months and then see if she learned by maybe taking her off the leash. But, in my opinion no dog should be left loose around horses unattended - the owner should have an eye on them or the dog should be confined, every dog whatever the age.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

yes...

I agree..just contain it somehow...and work on TRAINING dog to stay away from horses, while there is down time...with whatever method...

empty stall. put up a kennel...chain dog out...

I would never expect a 5 month old puppy to behave itself walking around freely at my place of work..without being supervised or contolled..and neither should anyone else..if they are realistic...


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I also agree with Jill. Good sound advise. When the dog is more mature and will understand the danger of the larger animals, Maggie will be better prepared to get out of the way.

A street wise dog is hard to hit with a car. Most of the time it's learned behavior. They just don't get many second chances. Supervision will make this dog barn smart.


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

vicki dickey said:


> Maggie if she is not rehomed needs to learn to be a barn dog during the day. Leashes are great but not something a barn dog has on it during the day being lead around by an owner. Some horses are tolerate of dogs, others ust as soon run a dog down. Horses can be deadly to dogs so Maggie needs to learn respect of them. *If you do not work around barns and horses and people riding in and out you can not understand the problem.* _Dogs there are not tied up but learn the limitations of the barns and horses or they are not welcomed._ Lisa manages the barns and works everyday of the year including holidays so her dogs are always with her and go home with her at night. Although Maggie knows basic obedience she is quite stubborn about her fascination with the horses. The last thing Lisa wants to do is rehome her but she will if it is best for the puppy. Just hoping someone might have an idea that will help. Otherwise she will look for a home for her.


I have been involved with horses for MANY years. I have managed boarding facilities and still board to this day. At each and every one of these barns, dogs are welcome if they are leashed or under voice control. And being the one with the Rotties, trust me, I understand the problem. 

We keep pups tied or leashed until they can be trusted to be loose and out of stalls and arenas and are known not to be reactive to horses. Interested is fine if it is calm, and being comfortable around their legs and while in motion is a must, not a reason to rehome... We don't expect them to come knowing to stay back and that not all horses want to be friends.

It sounds like her expectations are way to high for this PUPPY and if she is unable or unwilling to take the time to raise and train this pup to be a barn dog, then she SHOULD find her a better home. One who will appreciate the great temperament that this pup shows so far.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

I am heading out there today to get a better understanding of the problem. After talking with Lisa last night she does not want to give up on Maggie because she is such a great pup. Lisa has trained a variety of breeds around the horses-boxer, cattle dog, aussie, rat terrier, pitbull-and had them all out around the horses by 5 months offlead. Most dogs are leary of the horse's size if nothing else but Maggie has no fear and that has made it a rougher job. It doesnt mean she cannot learn but we want to accomplish that without her getting hurt. Each breed is different and I knew there were rott people on this forum that might be of help. Although you would think all dogs can be trained the same I personally believe each breed is different as each dog is different and having experience in that breed is valuable. Thanks for your all your input.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

it may be as simple as realizing no matter how much she likes to be with her dog, she can't handle her job and a rot puppy at the same time 
...if i was her employer i would point that out to her nicely.....once


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

maybe try a e- collar and use it to teach the dog not to go around them ? i am assuming she has already since you said you tried everything , but i am a dog trainer and here that everyday and mostly the people havent tried much , so thats my thought///


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

vicki dickey said:


> I am heading out there today to get a better understanding of the problem. After talking with Lisa last night she does not want to give up on Maggie because she is such a great pup. Lisa has trained a variety of breeds around the horses-boxer, cattle dog, aussie, rat terrier, pitbull-and had them all out around the horses by 5 months offlead. Most dogs are leary of the horse's size if nothing else but Maggie has no fear and that has made it a rougher job. It doesnt mean she cannot learn but we want to accomplish that without her getting hurt. Each breed is different and I knew there were rott people on this forum that might be of help. Although you would think all dogs can be trained the same *I personally believe each breed is different as each dog is different and having experience in that breed is valuable.* Thanks for your all your input.


Did she do her research on how long Rotts take to mature?


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

I certainly wouldnt be giving up on a 5 month old Rottie pup. I also dont like the thought of leaving dogs unattended around horses, especially if there are different ones coming and going. I have met several horses in my life that will try and a kill a dog with real murderous intent and have seen a loose dog minding its own business killed by such a horse.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

tie a few carrots around the dogs neck or tie a few tugs and the horses neck, either one will make for a good youtube video.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)




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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> tie a few carrots around the dogs neck or tie a few tugs and the horses neck, either one will make for a good youtube video.


I had a Rottie bitch years ago that for some reason bonded very closely to an Arab yearling. The two would play out in the pasture, the dog chasing the colt around with the colt bucking and kicking up a storm, then the dog would suddenly stop and stand there barking. The colt would turn around and start start chasing the dog around the area still kicking and bucking (he was a nut). Eventually he would pass the dog up and she would chase him again. Stupid creatures.... 

As for the OPs situation, it has nothing to do with the breed. It is a pup that is not ready to be off leash around horses yet. Pretty simple. I would advocate an e-collar, but if she can't deal with a five month old pup and is even considering rehoming it because it is confidant around horses and she wants it to be more nervous, and can't see to keep it leashed a bit longer... Well I wouldn't put a remote in her hand at this point.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Jessica where in the world do you get your ideas? Why would you want a dog to be nervous around horses?


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

I sure as hell don't. I want a dog that is confident and non reactive. Like I said in my post.

However *YOU* said


vicki dickey said:


> Most dogs are leary of the horse's size if nothing else but Maggie has no fear and that has made it a rougher job.


Implying that if she were more nervous around them it would be better, easier. I feel the opposite. I feel that this sounds like a great dog to have around the barn, AFTER it matures and can be trusted off leash. She needs to learn boundaries until then and is not ready yet. But when it was suggested that the pup be leashed YOU said that was inappropriate and that the pup should be more leery. Am I missing something?


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## kenneth roth (Jul 29, 2010)

--->> Training Dogs to Get Along with Horses DVD on leerburg.com ;-) http://leerburg.com/211.htm


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Thank you Kenneth this could be very helpful.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

PLEASE lose the idea of the e-collar on a five month old puppy that has no fear of, yet an interest in what is to her, livestock. How about a 36 inch crate in her office when she can't supervise. Who is the breeder on the puppy? A good Rottie shouldn't have fear. My bouv as a puppy would walk up to cattle [on a long line] and lick their noses. The cows would actually lick her back. I used to say she was one with cows. That changed when she grew up and one snorted at her. From then on they were to be cnotrolled. Several of my dogs have not seen horses as stock and had no interest in them. But they weren't afraid of them either. I am amazed that someone thinks a five month old puppy ought to have off leash reliability around stock and run around a stable and keep itself out of trouble. If I were the breeder, I'd rather you give her back than risk her being killed since she is expected to stay away from something as baby puppy and too much trouble to supervise. There is nothing wrong with confining a puppy to keep it safe and prevent it from forming bad habits. This is as bad as one of my club members telling me she was annoyed with her new BC pup for wanting to run down to the barn to be amongst the sheep. Duhhhhh!!!!

Terrasita


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks Terrasita. It's too simple.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

_I wonder if you people read and comphrehend or if I cant write something that is precise and simple to understand. The puppy IS in a 48" crate in a heated/AC office when it is not supervised. We have never used E collars on any of our dogs and would never even think of one on a puppy. I was only trying to get ideas on how to work with a pup that sees a horse as something to lick and has no respect or knowledge or a healthy fear of a horse and the hurt it can cause. You all jump to conclusions that we are dumb enough to just let her run loose and unsupervised in a potential dangerous enviroment. We would not give up on her and rehome her unless we felt it was better for her. And if we did the new home would be scrutinized under a microscope to make sure it was a great one. So please take it easy out there and dont misjudge so quickly._
_I took one of my aussies out there to see the situation first hand. When I got out of the car Maggie was out with Lisa and sat at her side until Lisa released her to greet me and Zak. We let the two dogs play as Lisa was telling me the situation. Maggie has an excellant recall and even while playing with Zak wouldnt run out more than 8 feet and leave Lisa. Lisa said she has been working on commands to stop her in her tracks and of course the recall is priceless. She feels she is making progress with her although she finds this breed slower than any she has worked with and not as quick in movement. But she loves her calm quietness and says when she does learn something she knows it well. I was very impressed with Maggie.We went to Lisa's ofice with the two dogs and Maggie willingly shared her space, toys and chews with Zak. There wasnt a snarl or growl or any concern if Zak helped himself to a chew or walked into her crate. Lisa has even worked some obedience with her on their walks around the grounds there for fun. She will down, sit, come, knows let and right finishes to the heel position and will walk loosely in the heel position and sit when you stop. Lisa walks her for miles morning and night if she has to be crated any length of time when she is busy with clients and uses that time for training as well. _
_So the pup isnt being tortured by shocks nor let loose to get kicked in the head. In fact that is what she is trying to avoid at all costs. She just never had a puppy run up to horses and try to give them a bath with their tongue before since most pups are leary of horses because of the size if nothing else. I thought someone on here might have had a similar problem with a pup over- friendly with horses that solved it and could share their method. I will in the future try to write more clearly so you do not think so poorly of how handle our dogs._


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I think you have just made a massive mountain out of a mole hill. Unless the dog has no brain, she will learn that horses can move quite sharply and suddenly, as she gets more exposure and matures. Tieing her out where she is safe but able to observe is a good strategy I think, better than locked up in a heated office when unsupervised. jmo

It does help I think if one learns about dogs and not just training.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Vicki
- your original post pretty much was asking if anyone wanted a nice rot that was destined to get hurt due to a lack of fear of the horses, and you didn't paint a clear picture of any TRAINING that had been done to prevent that from happening
- so you got lots of comments, most hinted at better management; none that i read were specific training techniques

- now you say you visited her at work and the dog was "at her side" when you showed up ... and it seems it was off lead to :-(
- then you list all the OB it can do .... impressive and nice, but :
- still bad pup management as i see it from a few thousand miles away 

- please explain how she can work a job around horses with a five month pup with her, and please don't try and tell me it never is.. 

if she needs specific training techniques, you might try having her provide you what hasn't worked so far that she HAS done with the pup around the horses


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Yep the pup was off lead at the time and did I say there were horses running all over the place free and wild ? No all the horse were in stalls and there was no threat to the puppy-she was out to potty and have free time play.

AGAIN there is a 48 size crate in the temperature controlled office where the puppy is at when Lisa is working with the horses. The puppy is out free only if there are no horses out and if there are horses out she is on lead. 
She is always supervised. There is no way you could work around horses AND keep your eye on a puppy-anyone knows that.

Even from a block away this is not bad puppy management. She is well socialized with people,cats and dogs, is crate trained, housebroken, knows basic obedience commands and is always supervised. And it is a happy, relaxed confident dog.
Lisa's hope and goal was eventually to be able to have her go along with her on trail rides. Her previous dog that she lost to cancer would go out with her. She is hoping to be able to enjoy that again.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Vicky, not sure if this will help, but several of my pups are never afraid of the horses. Although they view them more as prey, than a friend. 

The new pup seemed not real interested in them, until the other day, when switching pastures, one horse bumped me in a hurry to get out of the gate. The pup launched herself firmly attaching to the horse's face. Well this didn't go over well. 

They both survived, and the pup had a lesson on personal space, regardless of what she viewed as a threat. She now understands "back up" very well, and knows to stay a nice distance away. This could have ended terribly, for all three of us. 

So use that obedience the pup is so good at to teach a respectable distance from the horses. Some just don't have fear, and even if the horse teaches the lesson himself, they just don't get it. If I can trial ride with 7 fearless, some even aggressive, dogs, then a pup trained with voice commands to " move" or "get back" can happily follow along.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Julie thank you so much for a great reply. You really understood the problem having encountered it yourself. When I talked to Lisa yesterday that was the direction she was taking-voice commands of stay or go. Thanks again!


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

Vicki, as Rick pointed out, you came on here essentially looking for a new home for a pup that you said was too comfortable around horses. Nobody thought you/your daughter were torturing the pup. But you said


> She is now considering rehoming this puppy for its safety and the riders at the barn.


 and


> If anyone knows someone who would give this pup a good home please send me a message. She is 5 months, been raised with dogs, cats, housebroken, great dispostion, is a velcro dog and all around nice girl. She is from registered parents but the litter was not registered. She has had all her vaccinations. She lives in the St. Charles MO area. Here's a pic of her at about 2-3 months.


 So you can see how this comes across as this is too big an issue for her to handle and she wants to rehome the pup. You even put up a picture of the dog!

Leashes were suggested, but you said


> Leashes are great but not something a barn dog has on it during the day being lead around by an owner.


 And when OB was suggested you said


> Although Maggie knows basic obedience she is quite stubborn about her fascination with the horses.


 implying that her OB wasn't up to snuff when it comes to ignoring a horse (which is FINE! She is a BABY and can't be expected to ignore some of the biggest distractions out there). So, leash the pup until it is....

It is great that she has the pup contained while she can't be supervised. But when the pup is around horses, it needs to be on leash to help the pup learn and understand to maintain a safe distance. Obviously using safe horses... If the pup is on voice command to the point that it will recall off the horses while the horses while thy are moving (which I find doubtful and would bet that that will be challenged in the next few months) then use the voice. In all honesty though, if this is such a simple thing, why did you type up an ad to rehome the pup?



> I wonder if you people read and comphrehend or if I cant write something that is precise and simple to understand.


 I'm gonna go with number two. If every one had about the same advice for you, it was based on the way you presented the problem. This really is a very basic problem to solve and shouldn't have needed four pages for you to find an answer you liked to solve it. 

Manage the pup while it can't be watched, leash the pup while it can and let it grow and mature with a ton of positive experiences. No reason this pup shouldn't grow up to be a great trail dog. I have never had a dog that I can't ride trail with by the time they are all grown up. Many here have raised pups alongside horses and all said about the same thing.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

So much for conflict free. 
I give up but once again the pup is on a leash when horses are OUT. The pup is allowed to be offlead when horses are stalled or in pastures that are out of the area. When she is working the pup is in her crate in her office. Leashes are wonderful-I love them-Lisa loves them-but her goal is to have her respect horses and be able to trail ride with her. 

I asked for help initially-if anyone had suggestions or said she might have to be rehomed. I gave the description just in case because you never know. 
Apparently rehoming strikes a nerve in people. I have had to rehome just two dogs in my life-I hated to have to part with them but in the long run it was the best thing I did for them. I did it for the best of reasons and out of love for them. 
And if it takes 5 pages to find a solution so what? Thats what this forum is about isnt it? Besides some of the replies are made to make you smile not to answer the question and I appreciate them as well.
And it is not always as easy as some training and letting them mature. Some dogs just arent suited to what you might have in mind for them or what YOU think they should do when you pick out that puppy. And if it isnt going to work out why not find them a home and a life that is right for them after you exhausted all avenues.


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## Kellie Wolverton (Jan 16, 2009)

You may also want to provide a "place" for the dog outside of the office. Teach the dog to go to its "place" and stay there until released. We use this while working stock. It comes in handy if/ when there is a dangerous situation, ie loose horse, etc.


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

Jessica Kromer said:


> I'm gonna go with number two. If every one had about the same advice for you, it was based on the way you presented the problem. This really is a very basic problem to solve and shouldn't have needed four pages for you to find an answer you liked to solve it.
> 
> Manage the pup while it can't be watched, leash the pup while it can and let it grow and mature with a ton of positive experiences. No reason this pup shouldn't grow up to be a great trail dog. I have never had a dog that I can't ride trail with by the time they are all grown up. Many here have raised pups alongside horses and all said about the same thing.


That is good advice.

Vicky, if it matters to you (or Lisa) you will find a way (contain, leash, train). If it doesn't, you will find an excuse (can't leash at the barn, yadayada).

Since Vicky, and by proxi Lisa, are uninterested in putting in the extra time and training to keep the dog, they SHOULD rehome her! Do it while she's young and the problem grows out of control (both ways).


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## Ingrid Rosenquist (Mar 27, 2006)

vicki dickey said:


> So much for conflict free.
> I give up but once again the pup is on a leash when horses are OUT. The pup is allowed to be offlead when horses are stalled or in pastures that are out of the area. When she is working the pup is in her crate in her office. Leashes are wonderful-I love them-Lisa loves them-but her goal is to have her respect horses and be able to trail ride with her.
> 
> I asked for help initially-if anyone had suggestions or said she might have to be rehomed. I gave the description just in case because you never know.
> ...


I do not see where this discussion was ever demeaning, insulting, or ridiculing but that is just me. I come from a background of showing horses before I "down-sized" to dogs including running and training at a small barn that specialized in show Apps. My personal experience is that many horse people (not saying all or specifically your daughter as I do not know her and do know many dog saavy horse people) look at dogs an accessory to showing horses. Yes, they are animal people and love them but many times they do not put the work into training their dogs as they do their horses and instead let them wander around the barn/show site. The dogs eventually either get injured/killed or they learn to stay an appropriate distance from the horses. Kudos to your daughter to wanting to avoid the former scenario there!

I have a 14 year old bitch that I got at two because she would not stop chasing her owner's (and breeder's) stallion. She is to this day very prey driven but I did quite a bit of obedience training with her and she became fine around livestock. Ironically I think it was the herding training where she learned to control her drives and respond to my commands around livestock that solidified her training.

With that said, as someone who has been reading this thread with interest due to my former life with horses, I do not think the people that have responded have been unreasonable and quite frankly I have interpreted your posts the same way they did. 

It seems pretty straight forward to me. Puppy needs to be kept on leash when around the horses and appropriately trained as to the proper behavior around horses. As to when the puppy will be safe to be off leash - that is dog dependant. While your daughter's previous dogs might have picked up this by the time they were 5 months old, not all dogs are created equal. As to how to train this, in my opinion, it is not something that can explained over the internet let alone over the internet to a 3rd party. If she is unsure of the steps to undertake this training I would suggest she look for a horse saavy dog trainer/person in her area. 

At the end of the day, your daughter is the only one who can decide what the deadline is to determine if the dog is not going to work out and how much more effort she is willing to put into solving the issue. I wish her luck in her endeavor


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## Les Brill (Mar 1, 2011)

Well, i wasn't going to reply, but here are a few suggestions. First as teach pup out, or get out or away, (dont know what yure going to do if you need this command for something else) when it bumps into you or vice versa. Then transfer to quiet horse in xties or aisle. good luck.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I understand "training around" unwanted behavior is the way to go today. Possibly redirect and treat?? Personally, take me about five minutes to teach the dog to stay away from the horses. Could even set a limit line....say 20 feet but no closer. :grin: Before anyone says anything, teaching dogs to stay away from livestock of any kind is just something that has to be done if you are going to run dogs out of handler control. Would have been pretty simple if the dog was trained from the get go.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Lisa Brazeau said:


> That is good advice.
> 
> Vicky, if it matters to you (or Lisa) you will find a way (contain, leash, train). If it doesn't, you will find an excuse (can't leash at the barn, yadayada).
> 
> Since Vicky, and by proxi Lisa, are uninterested in putting in the extra time and training to keep the dog, they SHOULD rehome her! Do it while she's young and the problem grows out of control (both ways).


 
Lisa I dont get where you get the idea Lisa is not interested in taking the time to train this puppy. I have copied and sent her all the replies that had an idea or something that had worked for them to give her a plan. Lisa could teach a mule how to be stubborn so if anyone can teach this dog to ignore a horse I would put my money on her. She just needed some ideas on the best way to do it since she never had one so fearless as to go up to a horse and lick its mouth and wanted ideas that would teach her but keep her safe too. I have raised horses and dogs since I was a teenager and I dont want to tell you how many years that has been and never lost a dog to a horse injury. In fact I never even had a dog injured by a horse but never had one running up to a horse to lick it either 

Thank you to those people who responded with a possible solution.One of them should work.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I never really thought about it when I started taking my rottiex puppy to work with me when I started a barn job many years ago. When she was very young, she was in my car or in a stall when horses were being taken out for turnout. While I mucked stalls, she was allowed to bounce around the barn and entertain the boarders or play with their kids or dogs or just get in my way. If she was bothering anyone, she was put away. She seemed to have a good instinct about horses, and as she got older, would try to help discipline the naughty ones. There seemed to be a lot of herding/driving instinct in her. A full day of helping with barn chores made her the best behaved puppy ever at home after work. No need for a crate, either.

I think the only thing she was specifically taught was that she was not allowed in the paddocks and that she had to get out of the sand ring or arena when told to.

I didn't do anything special to teach her to trail ride. Got on a horse one day and let her follow. Did much the same with one of the boarders crazy little JRT who wanted to come with us for a hack in the big field. Mount up, ride off, dogs are expected to follow or get left behind.

My labx, adopted at 7 months old, had zero horse sense. He seemed to think they were just big tables and was a bit taken by surprise when the one he was trying to walk under started to move. He also walked over my horse's hay pile one time too many and got a muzzle punch to the shoulders from him. He got to be leashed or left in a stall when there were horses being moved or groomed in the aisles. 

How do the horses respond to the dog, especially when she's trying to be kissy with them? Does the dog seem to have any sense about horses?


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## kenneth roth (Jul 29, 2010)

just let the horse kick the pup, the pup will learn to leave them alone .our cats hit my sisters dog and the dog leaves the cats alone


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Like all of Ingrid's posts I thought that was thoughtful, articulate and to the point.









_Note: Peter also made a joking and not inappropriate comment about Ingrid's post that I took seriously and deleted. I apologize!_


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Leslie the pup seems to have no sense at all when it comes to the horses that is why she is in the office or on lead when one is out. Luckily the one she went up to lick was my daughter's horse and tolerant of dogs, but not all of the horses are good with dogs. Like you she was able to let her other dog out around horses as early as 4 months and thru the years never had a problem. 

Kenneth surely you were joking. 

Peter I take full blame for not writing clearly enough. I thought I had asked for suggestions first and added IF she couldnt be made horse saavy then we would place her in a home without horses. Everyone seemed to jump to the conclusion that she wouldnt be given a chance to learn, wouldnt be on a leash ever when the goal was to get her off one eventually and that puppy management was bad. I didnt have a lot of time when I jotted down that first post-just tried to hit the highlights but learned my lesson well. I have been trying to clear it all up ever since. Next time I will post with precision.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Do horses have foal license the same way dogs have puppy license? Perhaps the pup is getting away with some things now that won't be tolerated later. Horses posture in their interactions with each other, as do dogs. How much has the pup been allowed to interact with horses? Not all horses are good with dogs, there are some that will kick or bite with serious intent to harm, but there are others that are much more tolerant of dogs and those may be the ones to allow the dog to be around to learn how to be around horses in general.

I guess I was pretty slack about my dog's interaction with horses, given that I didn't do much other than remind her that horses can cause brain damage and that a brain damaged dog was a dead dog. Most of the horses tolerated her, some respected her, there were one or two that would not put up with her and she dodged a few hoofs and got chased.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

kenneth roth said:


> just let the horse kick the pup, the pup will learn to leave them alone .our cats hit my sisters dog and the dog leaves the cats alone


Trust me, the dogs just learn to Dodge the kicks!:roll:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Horses reaction time is much faster than a rottie..... I would guess.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Well mine are lighting fast mals  lol


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## Ingrid Rosenquist (Mar 27, 2006)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Like all of Ingrid's posts I thought that was thoughtful, articulate and to the point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sigh. All the good stuff happens and is deleted when I am away from the computer


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

I missed it too Ingrid!!!! Man!!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Rotties are herding dogs...I agree with teaching her a "get out" command, just like with herding. Just means, get out of their zone. Simple enough to do with a stock stick (unless you have a certain Malinois who is taught to go through stick pressure... *cough cough*) and just channel your inner Cesar Milan :wink: and "own the space" around a horse with eye contact, body language, and a little help from a long line on the dog just in case and a stock stick. I could probably come out some time and give it a try. I like me a good Rottweiler.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ingrid Rosenquist said:


> Sigh. All the good stuff happens and is deleted when I am away from the computer


I PMed you. He was being wry and actually complimentary and I thought he was being, well, you 
know ..... :lol: .... Peter. 100% my bad.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

No, I would not work it with a stock stick and tell it get out. You are essentially working it like stock. Teach pup on a long line a "leave it" [don't interact] with command and reward it for doing so. A good strong Rottie might be pulled in with stick pressure. I still wouldn't rehome a dog because it wasn't great at one part of my lifestyle. There are herders who work stock on horseback and with dogs. Maybe Tony McCallum has a spin on this. My dogs didn't see horses as stock but its not because of fear. I essentially told them leave it even when they were sniffing the air with the horses at some distance. 

Terrasita


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

_Note: Peter also made a joking and not inappropriate comment about Ingrid's post that I took seriously and deleted. I apologize! :lol::lol: _Was that a first ? :lol:


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

Just catching up on this thread and I was disappointed to see the attitude towards using an e-collar. Of course, it is the owner's prerogative to not use what they are not comfortable with, but I would think on a working dog forum, members would have a better understanding of how to use the collar to train the puppy to stay away from the horses rather than assuming it's just a matter of shocking the crap out of her. I feel like we are back to the Victoria Stilwell thread. There are many skilled trainers who use the collar delicately but effectively on young dogs to teach. It's a matter of coupling low level stimulation with rewards and showing the dog that moving away from the horses is the desired behavior. Judging from your comment about never using an e-collar on any of your dogs, I assume this isn't an option, but I still think it's appropriate to address the fact that the collar can be used gently on a pup of her age with no ill effects.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Unlike some livestock horses can aim their kicks. A dog could possibly learn to "dodge", but one kick aimed at the head could be the last kick the dog would ever have the chance to dodge. Have you ever seen and heard a dog getting kicked in the head? I have-it doesnt ever leave your mind. It was a friend's golden at a boarding barn. The dog died instantly. Lisa was there and about 10 years old at the time-she hasnt forgotten either. Possibly why she was quick to think maybe she should rehome Maggie. 

I have raised so many dogs with horses over the years and never had a pup that didnt have a bit of fear (possibly not the right word) maybe watchfulness when in the presence of a horse at this age. I could see a very young puppy getting in the way. She has been going to the barn and been around the horses since the age of 8 weeks and never shown any interest at all. Now she wants to play kissy with them. On the flip side she shows no aggression and isnt out there barking at them so that is a major plus.

Lisa has decided to continue working with her with the suggestions made on the forum because Maggie is exceptional in all other ways.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

I actually only owned one dog who I could not train to leave the horses alone. She would only if they were quiet, but if they ever began running, unless she was confined she would chase. She chewed out of chain link kennels, broke chains, dug under fences. Very hard headed gsd.
I lost count of the kicks she took. Broken shoulder, dislocated hock, broken and pinned hip, even had her eyebrow kicked clean off. I never could get ex to understand she was going to be killed. 

I re homed her, she came back about a 6 mile trip lol. She lived to be 14. Worse dog I ever owned.

We did try several training methods, the only way to stop it was to keep her seperated, which she would often escape, or the ex would let her out to "play".


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Vicky, talk about aim, I owned a mule once who would kick horse flies out of the air. Pretty neat to watch.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

julie allen said:


> Well mine are lighting fast mals  lol


Of course they are Julie....I would have expected no less. :wink: :grin:


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Of course they are Julie....I would have expected no less. :wink: :grin:


Hey Don, an Airedale was at the seminar last week, awesome cadaver dog ( just started training) . Great little dog, with awesome focus! Lol and the only dog at the seminar mine hated.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_Note: Peter also made a joking and not inappropriate comment about Ingrid's post that I took seriously and deleted. I apologize! :lol::lol: 

__Was that a first ?_ :lol:


Yup. \\/


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> _Note: Peter also made a joking and not inappropriate comment about Ingrid's post that I took seriously and deleted. I apologize! :lol::lol: _
> 
> _Was that a first ?_ :lol:
> 
> ...


You should have just stuck to your side of the story,,,, we all would have believed you :lol:.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

julie allen said:


> Hey Don, an Airedale was at the seminar last week, awesome cadaver dog ( just started training) . Great little dog, with awesome focus! Lol and the only dog at the seminar mine hated.


One of mine is being trained in Mn for cadaver work. Name is Tempe. Other than that, Jim Delbridges dogs are the only others I am familiar with doing cadaver work.


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## Les Brill (Mar 1, 2011)

Well, yes they do learn if kicked, but a little drastic. If the pup's prob is getting underfoot, careless walking by handler helps-nudge dog out of way w/foot. Also if too close to horse gently step on toe so dog thinks it was horse. Frankly never had a big problem w/horse/dog intros. in barn at first of course. My GSD was 6mos when i got her, and thought the horses were very dangerous-when i'd go to open a stall door, she'd come up behind me and put her paws on my shoulders to keep me away from those big guys, then finally decided i knew what i was doing. Being around them under supervision 24/7 helps- we have had problems w/visitors dogs chasing horses-they,re not asked back.


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