# confronting the dog whith the decoy ?



## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

question after seeing so many different people work in every type of sport work 
in the building up fase 
i see almost every hanler stay on his spot keeping the dog and the decoy comes up make his work and give the bite 
this is so totally different than were used to train in our eyes the decoy makes present and the handler and dog come up towards the decoy and than gets the bite so the dog is always in a forward moving 
this because when building up is done you want your dog comming up to the decoy as well
maybe its nothing to many even not noticed but i noticed it and i see big changes quickly when a dog is switched over to this type of decoywork 
greetings gerben


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

This is how we do it but we are not far away from you, geographically!


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

You see that often in PSD training. When trying to teach a arm biter how to target the body or the leg. Many decoys will make the dog miss until the dog bites where he wants it. A much easier way would be to bring the dog in and just place him where you want to bite and actually show them where to bite.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

My trainer is a PSA guy and I always bring the dog to him for the bite


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

This is usually the easiest to do when a decoy and handler don't communicate well, or the handler is new. If you tell them to be a post, it simplifies it so the decoy can focus on the dog. Otherwise you have handlers not knowing when to move, not giving at the right time, etc and it can create more issues. Plus the decoy will then always know exactly how much space he has to make misses, versus trusting the handler to not get him bit at the wrong time.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Allowing the dog to be in control and having a proper target is something that empowers it. Shoving the head into the bite if the dog is not strong in defense might mess it up. Sounds like the KNPV guy understands training...show some photos. Best in training!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

kamphuis gerben said:


> question after seeing so many different people work in every type of sport work
> in the building up fase
> i see almost every hanler stay on his spot keeping the dog and the decoy comes up make his work and give the bite
> this is so totally different than were used to train in our eyes the decoy makes present and the handler and dog come up towards the decoy and than gets the bite so the dog is always in a forward moving
> ...



Gerben, the reason I come into the dog often is because I feel that it's an important skill for an IPO dog. In IPO3 there are two bites with the helper standing directly in front of the dog and coming forward when attacking. Depening on the dog's guarding style, this distance can be anywhere from 1cm to 1m. There is also an attack into the dog while the dog is following from a couple of meters. 

For me it's an important part of an IPO dog's foundation. He needs to learn to bite about an area about the size of your hand with only a split second to target, and he should bite with his whole mouth. If this is not done correctly the dog can loose *A LOT *of points.

Gerben, do you ever attend IPO trials?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

When a dog is first learning the target area for biting, how to turn it's head, etc we have the decoy go to the dog. So they can time the bite perfectly based on where the dog is looking, how they are turning their head, etc. 

After the dog has the basics then we start sending the dog into the bite. This is how most of the FR clubs I've worked with have trained.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

kamphuis gerben said:


> question after seeing so many different people work in every type of sport work
> in the building up fase
> i see almost every hanler stay on his spot keeping the dog and the decoy comes up make his work and give the bite
> this is so totally different than were used to train in our eyes the decoy makes present and the handler and dog come up towards the decoy and than gets the bite so the dog is always in a forward moving
> ...


yes. changes can be BIG when switched to this type of work...


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Active barking is also required for Schutzhund giving/rewarding the young dog the bite for barking is one of the best methods for teaching this. Often in the same sessions there will be a restraint bites ware the young dog is allowed to pull to the bite and that's how the sessions will end with a strong victory.That's how we balance the sessions according to the dogs development.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: When a dog is first learning the target area for biting, how to turn it's head, etc we have the decoy go to the dog. So they can time the bite perfectly based on where the dog is looking, how they are turning their head, etc. 

Is this a left over from Sch, or is this something that just began because we have many decoys that cannot target correctly ??

For some reason, it seems that if the dog is in motion, a lot of people cannot just stick the leg in the dogs mouth. 

If I have them do drag ins from the start, they just seem to get it. If they start with the dog still, and they present, they tend to get lost on the drag ins at first. Just an observation. At my first club, a lot of what was done was done as a evolution from Sch training.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

We also let the pup chase the decoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeLulNQMXj4


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