# New pup



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Kids and wife wanted a smaller dog and we all agreed of a boarder Terrier. Im pretty sure the reconditions from many on this board a ways back was the main reason a boarder was chosen. 
She “Nellie” showed up a day ago and is doing alright. Chasing the cat twice her size and ripping around. Just about 8 weeks old, kids are talking about agility work. Im sure we will play with tracking/trailing and likely some narcotic work for the fun of it. Took the dogs out back for a few pics this morning.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

I like that last pic. Probably feel good.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Congrats on your new puppy. The Border has always sounded like an interesting dog to me. I will be interested in following any updates of the pup along the way.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

nice pup ! not very common in Japan; never seen one over here ....
who's she out of ? peds ?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Congratulations! I think they're wonderful dogs! My friend has one called "cricket", cricket doesn't mind ruling the roost, her highness is strict but fair to all her loyal big dog subjects.


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

Nifty little terrier. My old boss has one that works Schn, Earth Dog and has a herding temperment test.
Much easier to groom then other terrier with a broken coat and lots of fun to work with.
Wish you the best with the new pup.
K


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Enjoy your new puppy! I love smelling puppy's breath


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Thanks, she came from this place http://www.wartraceborders.com/index.html . Dont really know much about the breeder, could not find anything bad about them. Certainly tougher to find breeders of Boarders than I thought it would be. Tried to find something from working lines that had nothing or as little as possible with the AKC. But all in all I have no idea about the lines? My wife really kind of handled it I never even spoke to the guy selling them. I mean its not like I would really believe what he told me. 
I don’t know about the rest of you guys but I got most breeders/ brokers right up there with used car salesmen until they prove other a few 100 times. Then I click them over one click to new car salesmen. 
Basically my daughters wanted a small house dog to play around with. They didn’t believe me that the DS and Malis that come and go were small cuddly. Or at least the kind they wanted. They insisted that there were other kinds of dogs out there. This thing looks like a hamster with an over sized head right now. Its tiny! 
SO, I said im good with a small dog as long as it is a terrier, I never had one. I tried to get a Patterdale or Jager to be approved by the wife and kids but they read a bit to gamey when they read up on them. 
Basically a few people here recommended the Boarder when I asked about a year back. 
I did a few things I shouldn’t such as had it shipped without seeing it. The breeder has a friend that is a truck driver and my wife and kids picked the pup up at a truck stop not far from home. 
Thought it might take a few days for the pup to come out of its shell, but it took me a minute to realize it was never in a shell. Fit right in. Tinny 2 or 3 pound pup messing with our DS and greyhound and the family cat. We also have a 6 month old DS and 6 month old Mali here at the moment (not mine to keep) I have kinda been keeping a closer lead on the two of them when the pup thinks it’s a tough guy. 
So far so good. 
Also looking to get a new GS, DS or Mali pup to keep for good over the next few weeks. Im thinking this dog is going to be spending a good bit more time than I thought outside. 
Will post a few pics and videos of the pup as she moves along in life.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've had two of them. Probably my fav terrier of all time but they can be very people soft.
I also think your hiding the fact in that last picture that Nellie killed your Dutchie. :lol:;-)
Be very careful with critters. The Border can be a slow starter but will willingly tackle a tiger when they mature.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Thanks Bob, You did mention that they can be sensitive before and point well taken. You were likely the one that mentioned the boarder first when I asked about a good small family terrier. This dog will see very, very few corrections in its life. I will never say none but as few as possible and only for big ticket items. I have spoken on here in the past about my mistakes with my first DS 6 or 7 years ago, bad timing and unfair corrections. Not necessarily hard or tough corrections at all but my first dog was a lover and really didn’t need more than a quick word or even a un-approving look. Especially since the dogs whole foundation was working with the handler without the treats and toys (I didn’t put the foundation in this dog) iv come to find that I believe being fair is even more important than other training methods. 

 Still thinking about how we may go about training this little pup. I do enjoy getting dogs to accomplish things without toys and treats as rewards. Part of me thinks it might be interesting to see how training this little girl without treats and toys will go. Im pretty sure it will go just fine. But it might also be fun to get the kids to play around with another method. But then I think, after years of mostly concentrating on the no treats and no toys training and having a lot of things really come together the past few years why change? 
I got a bit of pride in getting dogs to do things willingly without the toys and treats. “Willingly” being the main word there. 
And after learning to get dogs to do stuff without the toys and treats it kind of feels like I would be going backwards by using them. I didn’t say that to start a pissing match or anything and I do respect the way anyone gets results in the end. Its just my own mental thing. 
Anyway as you can see I been thinking about the training with this little thing. This might or will likely be a whole nother future post with this pup.
The one thing I have really noticed is it seems like dogs that are going to stay little and are currently real small certainly are allowed to slide on a lot of things that dogs that are going to be larger or larger pups would not be allowed to. The training of the bad habits are more allowed with the little ones or ones that are going to stay small. 
None of the larger breed dogs we get are allowed to mouth anyone or anything ever no matter how small at the time, never allowed to put paws on anyone or anything, never felt a couch or soft chair, never were allowed to chew anything at all in the house ever, not allowed to mess with the cat etc. Lots of habits that are never allowed that never have to be not allowed. 
And for the most part my 9 and 12 year old do a lot of the work in regards to this stuff. But, Man this pup has been here for two days and there are no rules. Some of this stuff might not be as cute in a year. 

Ya, I still have a few things to figure out as far as the parameters of this pup, nothing earth shattering.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I don't know if terriers can be as diciplined as your big dogs. What do you think? I think alot of terriers have selective hearing. I just expect different things from different breeds of dogs. Like some kids like to study and get good grades others like to raise hell.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

wow ... they're little they're cute and they're sensitive
- funny, but that is exactly what i hear from pet owners who bring me their little out of control monsters who rule their family and attack anyone in sight //rotflmao//

i will be interested to learn about your training techniques with this dog

as for me, i don't really make allowances for size or temperament, i train all breeds in exactly the same way, using exactly the same system. maybe that's harder for the dog but it sure keeps it simple for me 
- fwiw, i use a lot of rewards that DO include treats and toys in addition to praise, and that DOES vary a lot from dog to dog...but the system doesn't vary a bit

sounds like a nice dog; have fun with the new addition


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i said it a long time ago but just remembered it again
the most impressive dog i've ever seen in my life was a JRT
- the most highly trained and definitely VERY well disciplined
- watching the dog being worked gave me goosebumps
(and it bit too) 

that owner could wind that dog thru a crowd of wild preschoolers (off lead) and none of the kids would even be looked at ... and could be tossed a tug it would pounce on and try to KILL; then retrieve it and keep fighting, and then drop it instantly and give paw a microsecond later

my idea (and goal) of a well trained dog...size doesn't always matter even tho it helps


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

I agree with the tackle a tiger thing. I have a friend that got one to show and he was doing great, about 5 months old and one of her GSD's came home from training to get his OFA and such. Well her husband let all the dogs go out back together an a few minutes later found the BT dead in the back yard. No visiable marks just a little wet. Well the vet confirmed he'd been crushed and died from a torn artery and puctured lung. 
Yet he'd been playing just fine with her GSD in the house. They can be too bold and rather annoying to other dogs. Just be careful or your wife and daughter will be really mad at you!
Best of luck,
K

P.S. are you going to IPO train her?


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

rick smith said:


> wow ... they're little they're cute and they're sensitive
> - funny, but that is exactly what i hear from pet owners who bring me their little out of control monsters who rule their family and attack anyone in sight //rotflmao//
> 
> i will be interested to learn about your training techniques with this dog
> ...


He said his dogs aren't allowed to touch the couch or mouth anyone or anything. He runs a more disiplined dog pack then most. No food reward, no toys. He is the opposite side of the sepctrum as your clients out of control ankle biters.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Ben, first i don't deal a lot with pure ankle biters ...japan is filled with em just like the states but i have plenty of business with bigger dogs to keep me busy and now i can pick and choose now since i've built up a few referrals over they years.....i rarely work with what you may think of as ankle biters 
...more like shiba-kens, bull terriers (who grip as hard as a small mal), akita-kens, standard poodles, huskies and kai-kens .... just as well as the smaller terrier types (currently working with a cairns w/ an attitude)

so please don't apply "ankle biters" to what i posted

*plus, i thot he was referring to his "big dogs", not the new addition when he was discussing rules and boundaries ala "pack leadership" and i was led to believe the new pup had a lot more freedom at this point
- that is EXACTLY how the new guy should be treated also ...imo of course
- discipline doesn't always mean leash pops for christs sake  discipline can come thru management and control
- don't have time to fact check, but i thot i he wrote that he leashed the bigger dogs sometimes...that would also be the opposite of what i would do...imo it's the pup that needs to learn control when leashed and i'm not talking about a traffic lead length...it is also MUCH easier to yank a small dog from trouble than try and pull off a big dog
...plus the bigger dogs should already be under much better control at six months

but yes i think it is totally wrong to let a pup run loose and expect the older "resident" dogs to keep out of the pup's face especially a BT ... exactly the opposite usually happens, and i hear much of the same reasons why probs developed 

sorry "pets" don't always mean ankle biters, and i do think he is taking a risky approach as of now ... but they are his dogs and he knows them better than i do 
- that's also why i wrote that i was very interested in how he was planning on training the pup...more than one way to do it....if you can train dogs without having to pay em, i'm all ears !!!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Hey Chris, congrats on the new pup! By the way, wot's a Boarder ? A terrier come to stay ?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ben Thompson said:


> I don't know if terriers can be as diciplined as your big dogs. What do you think? I think alot of terriers have selective hearing. I just expect different things from different breeds of dogs. Like some kids like to study and get good grades others like to raise hell.



Ben, I don't believe in "selective hearing", "stubborn", "give you the finger" when it comes to dogs. These all point to training issues in my books. I think it was Von Stephenitz who said something to the effect that "when my dog does wrong, I should ask myself what did *"I" *do wrong to cause it. ;-)
In the early 80s I had a Kerry Blue that regularly kicked butt in the AKC OB ring. He was the #1 KBT in the country and in the top ten all terriers. Convince a terrier it's having fun and the world can be yours.
I think Connie said it best. "Marker training was made for terriers". Wish we had marker training back then. I can only wonder how well we'd do.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris, don't allow the "little" dog to get away with anything you won't allow from your big dogs. Dogs are dogs. 
Both my daughters have Chi dogs (don't know where I went wrong:lol Bass plugs with feet as I call them but the most well mannered Bass plugs with feet you'll ever see. They are brought up that way and not babied...to much.:wink:


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Ben, I don't believe in "selective hearing", "stubborn", "give you the finger" when it comes to dogs. These all point to training issues in my books. I think it was Von Stephenitz who said something to the effect that "when my dog does wrong, I should ask myself what did *"I" *do wrong to cause it. ;-)
> In the early 80s I had a Kerry Blue that regularly kicked butt in the AKC OB ring. He was the #1 KBT in the country and in the top ten all terriers. Convince a terrier it's having fun and the world can be yours.
> I think Connie said it best. "Marker training was made for terriers". Wish we had marker training back then. I can only wonder how well we'd do.


So you take say a beagle and a JRT and expect them to be as obedient and trainable as a border collie or GSD. Even though they are not as intelligent as the herding breeds.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Can't say about the Beagle cause I've never had any sort of hound but the terriers are a lot closer to the top then they are given credit. VERY intelligent!
I've had a couple of Kerrys, a couple of Borders, a White Bull, a Norwich, A JRT, a couple of mixed working earth dogs, a rat terrier and a couple of "pet" terrier mixes over the years. I've not found them to be any harder to train then most anything I've had. the one dog that stood apart from all that is my present older GSD. He's one in a 1,000 regardless of breed.
Firm but fair! Make it a game! Have fun! 
Not all my dog's were competition dogs. Some were show dogs, some were working line, some were just pets but I've never had a dog I couldn't walk down the street with off lead and not have it respond to any command I give. I've never had a problem calling any of my dogs to a dead stop from running any sort of critters from bunnies to deer. 
I've also had many mutts and cross breds, Two GSDs, two Mals, a St. Bernard, a Weimaraner, a Collie, a Spitz. They are all just dogs.
Over my 67 yrs I've learned that your training is adjusted to match the dog, not the breed. JMHO of course! :wink:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

maggie fraser said:


> Hey Chris, congrats on the new pup! By the way, wot's a Boarder ? A terrier come to stay ?


A lodger??


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> A lodger??


Surfer


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm goîng to put Chris out of his misery:

A *Border *terrier is what you have. The spelling wouldn't naturally be a problem, apart from the fact that *boarder *is someone who boards with a family. A Border Terrier *boards* with a family, ok. 

The actual fact is that the Border Terrier is from the "borders" between England and Scotland.

Great little dogs - have fun with him.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I'm goîng to put Chris out of his misery:
> 
> A *Border *terrier is what you have. The spelling wouldn't naturally be a problem, apart from the fact that *boarder *is someone who boards with a family. A Border Terrier *boards* with a family, ok.
> 
> ...


Ha, I don’t think you guys are even from my country and you know English better
There is no reason to have two words that sound the same spelt different.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> Ha, I don’t think you guys are even from my country and you know English better
> There is no reason to have two words that sound the same spelt different.


Know kidding! ;-)

As it is I have enough trouble with spelling words backwards or putting them in reverse order, transposing numbers, etc. It's particularly apparent when I am tired.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Border Terrier official name is Nellie, she is a her. 
I attached a few images of a Mali that I think I will be keeping and making mine. This is him last week at 8 weeks old. I had him for a day or two in these pics. I really like the dog. No name yet, kids are working on it. Will get more pics and video up soon, like I said in another thread Hurricane kinds made me a bit busy. A few members here have seen the pups already. 

As far as the Terrier, Yes I agree I would think small dogs should be living under the same rules as larger. My main point was I can see how the little guys become a pain, you just don’t feel you need to be as strict regarding many things like jumping or biting. Then there is the fact that my kids and wife are the main ones spending time with the little thing. They are all good with the pups that are going to be big but think its cute when this little one is biting. I mean it is cute… but you know what I mean. And you could never let a pup that’s going to be big play with a cat like this little dog. Just hoping this little dog doesn’t bring home a dead cat one day. 
My first terrier, you got to like the personality. They just don’t seem to know “flight”


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"I attached a few images of a Mali that I think I will be keeping and making mine. This is him last week at 8 weeks old. "_

No images .... ?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Hey ya, I’ll try again.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Offa, ill get better pics soon


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Chris, I've been around more then a bunch of working terriers. Many of them were/are raised with cats and absolutely no problems *BUT* that has nothing to do with cats outside the ones the dogs grow up with. Even my Border was tolerant around friend's cats *IF* I was present. He still had no problem "doing in" a big farm tom when we were on a hunting trip. Luckily the farmer was happy to be rid of the baby maker. Seems toms are a PIA on a farm.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Are you saying that a terrier is more likely to have issues with other animals that are not in its circle than other types of dogs would? I can believe that after having this tiny thing for a week or two. 
This tiny pup with its big attitude does make me laugh right now. But I can see how this attitude can be an issue. What would make many pups hesitant just makes this 3 pounder pissed off and fight harder. 
Its pretty funny to have seen all the past threads on here regarding dogs and biting and fighting, dogs and pain etc. Then watch this 3 pound dog get the attitude it gets when its messing around.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I think it's not uncommon with a lot of dogs but terriers have more critter drive (for lack of a better term) then other dog. If they weren't raised with it, it's quarry and more then one has gotten in over it's head with coyotes, etc.


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