# What age to start E-collar?



## Matthew Criner (Apr 19, 2006)

At what age can I start using an E-collar?


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## Matthew Criner (Apr 19, 2006)

Also, at what age can you use a Prong?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Prong I use from aprox 8-9 mo. (depends on the dog, a soft dog later or never).

E- collar if it´s necessary while I working on a distance, usually the already learned the excercise but fail to obey me on a distance, probably not regurarly before 18 mo (depends on the dog also). Used it once with my girl for the recall (in combination with a long leash) while she was playing and didn´t want to get into the car at 9 mo.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

I thing the age is not important. IT'S what you DO with the tool that's important.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> I thing the age is not important. IT'S what you DO with the tool that's important.


true, very true..


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## Gregg Tawney (Apr 4, 2006)

I agree with Angdres and Selena on this. I start my dogs between eight months and one year. Depending on thier maturity and drive. 

I use the three action introduction. Remember, you do not teach the dog the command with the collar. He should already understand the command you are telling him. You are simply reinforcing the command. 

I start out doing recalls without distraction. I introduce distrations slowly. I then move onto using it to reinfoce the release of toys. I then teach him to down from a distance with the collar. I then finally use it in bitework after he has a clear understanding that the correction is coming from me and not the decoy. It is very important that you do not begin collar work with a decoy. The dog will associate it with the decoy and you will create more problems then you solve. 

Also, when he is learning the collar you should use a level that gets a light reaction. The dog should not be vocal. There is a good video called "Out 
for the patrol dog". You can get it through Ray Allen.


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## Matthew Criner (Apr 19, 2006)

Thanks guys, what age can I start using a flat collar?


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Jeez Matt...at least don't write that in public! 

You can wear a flat collar whenever you want...and I don't want to know about it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Matthew Criner said:


> Thanks guys, what age can I start using a flat collar?


Doesn't he have one now?

A "flat collar" is just the regular leather or sometimes woven
collar.

He is probably wearing one with his I.D. tags and leash attached
to it. It's the top collar here: 
http://www.boxerworld.com/training/collars/


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

A question here about collars. I have seen an artical about different collars. What someone has done was to test 100 dogs for each collar, choke, flat, and pinch. The study showed that the pinch collar was the collar that had the least amount of injuries to the dog. 

I want to find that artical again so that I can direct people to it when they tell me how bad the pinch collar is. 

Thanks


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jerry Lyda said:


> A question here about collars. I have seen an artical about different collars. What someone has done was to test 100 dogs for each collar, choke, flat, and pinch. The study showed that the pinch collar was the collar that had the least amount of injuries to the dog.
> 
> I want to find that artical again so that I can direct people to it when they tell me how bad the pinch collar is.
> 
> Thanks


I linked it in the message just above yours.

http://www.boxerworld.com/training/collars/
refers to the study, which is referred to all over the web, but which I have never actually read.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I found this one but it don't have the flat collars too.

A Study on Prong Collars was done in Germany:
100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong. 
The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed. 
Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma. 
Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma. 
The numbers seem to speak for themselves. 
(Information about above study taken from an Anne Marie Silverton Seminar)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Right, I have seen the reference to the study from that Silverton seminar. What I have never found is the study.

I quote it anyway, because I believe those statements. :>)


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Jerry, that study has been bumped around for a long time...and there appears too be no substance behind it, beyond what the short page that describes the results says. There are no further references. Nonetheless, given how most people use the choke collars...it's most likely true.

I want to add that for me...again, for me...choke collars are a fine tool quite misused. I do not use a choke to give a dog a pop. I use a choke to give a dog a choke. It's a gentle, firm and smooth move. Typically it works like this: I lift the dog on the choke and say sit very nicely. When the dog sits, I release and praise.

It's comparable to an electrical stimulation, or a prong.

By the way, I don't use a prong to POP either.

Disclaimer: I don't use that method on puppies, nor do I use it to teach a command period. I use it as negative reinforcement...in conjunction with positive reinforcement and positive punishment.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:Thanks guys, what age can I start using a flat collar?

Or more importantly, how old do you have to be to get a dog. You don't have one yet do you? Please God tell me no.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jerry, this is an article I like to give to new dog folks. 
http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html


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## Matthew Criner (Apr 19, 2006)

oh a flat collar is just a regular collar. Now I feel real stupid.


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