# Do I have a GSD or Belgian Mal? You be the judge!



## Fred Yankellow (Dec 13, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I recently adopted a dog. He is wonderful and we love him. This is nothing more than curiosity. He is not going anywhere no matter what he is !!!

When we first got him, we thought that he was a GSD (we adopted him from a GSD rescue). When we took him to our vet, he said that he was prertty sure that he is a Belgian Mal and not a GSD. 

I walk him frequently and take him a lot of places with us on the weekends and I've had a number of military and police officers tell me that they think he is a Mal. I recently had a person from another GSD rescue tell me that he is a GSD and not a Mal.

So just trying to figure out what this beautiful boy is. Either way, he's a keeper! ;-)

Thanks!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Looks like a gsd to me.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Mali with GSD in the bloodline


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## Fred Yankellow (Dec 13, 2013)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Mali with GSD in the bloodline


I was kind of thinking the same thing. He is built more like a lot of Mals I've seen pictures of and is extremely fast and agile too. He can jump over 6 feet in the air.

His coloring is more GSD, but his build looks more Mal-ish to me. This is just purely my un-educated opinion of course. 

I do find it strange that several have told me he is Mal and several have thought he was a GSD. Usually it's no guessing, right? That's why maybe he is mix of both.


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## Annamarie Somich (Jan 7, 2009)

Cross. 

The mal makes the GSD nicer looking! 

Good looking dog.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Mali/GSD mix 

Body is Mali, head has typical GSD features like the larger cheeks and the general build of the nose which seems to be more GSD then the narrower Mali build. Not a bad looking dog to be honest.


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## Jon Harris (Nov 23, 2011)

mali-herd or maybe a shepernios

we are working a few of those they make great dogs


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

I don't see any mal, just a thin looking sort of plainish BYB shepherd. I've had a lot of mal/GSD crosses come through the vet office where i worked and he just doesn't mat the type i've seen before. Not saying he can't be a mal cross, but i'm not seeing the phenotype. 
I think he's young and just sort of at that skinny teenager stage. Teeth look nice and fresh. 
Seen a lot of shepherds in florida that look just like this, not show line or working line. Must be sandy beach line?


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## Fred Yankellow (Dec 13, 2013)

Jon Harris said:


> mali-herd or maybe a shepernios
> 
> we are working a few of those they make great dogs


Hi Jon,

What is a "mali-herd" dog? Thanks so much!


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## Jon Harris (Nov 23, 2011)

same thing as the shepernois

just a play on words Most posters here have learned my humor is a little uh bent


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## Fred Yankellow (Dec 13, 2013)

Jon Harris said:


> same thing as the shepernois
> 
> just a play on words Most posters here have learned my humor is a little uh bent


LOL, I like it. Thanks! 8)


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Wish I could find some decent pictures of Robbie 2's littermates. Robbie is the darkest one in the litter and there is no GSD in the bloodline (as far as I know) He is a Berry II offspring and most of his littermates are the exact color as your dog is, also same build except for the head which in my dog and his littermates is more Mali to the eye. Will try and find a decent photo to show you if I can.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Is it a Mal or GSD? Hint...It's both. My current partner.


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## Fred Yankellow (Dec 13, 2013)

Wow Howard, now I can really see it!

Mine was rescued from Tennessee if that matters (he was brought to the local rescue here in Maryland via Tennessee).


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Fred, I don't see it but we do have another MalxGsd working here and he is almost a dead ringer for yours. Nearly the same size and the exact same sable looking color. Putting them side by side it would be difficult to tell except for the ear size.


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## Fred Yankellow (Dec 13, 2013)

Howard Knauf said:


> Fred, I don't see it but we do have another MalxGsd working here and he is almost a dead ringer for yours. Nearly the same size and the exact same sable looking color. Putting them side by side it would be difficult to tell except for the ear size.


I would love to see a picture of that one. Thanks so much!


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Nice looking partner you have there Howard!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Nice looking partner you have there Howard!


 Thank you. I believe he comes from your neck of the woods but I have no pedigree to confirm it.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I had a Mali GSD mix 6 years ago. Mother was a GSD from the ukraine, she was imported by a clubmember at the time and we were looking for a pup so we grabbed one out of his litter since it was a breeding back to Rambo bloodlines and it was the last breeding Rambo was going to do. (his fathers bloodline is BRN511 ) Not a spot of GSD on or in him by the looks of it, the only difference I could see was that the build was wider then a Mali has. 



the large picture is 6 months, the smaller insert is 14 months. He was larger then the average Mali as well, weighed in at 48 kilo's full grown and 70 cms.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Thank you. I believe he comes from your neck of the woods but I have no pedigree to confirm it.


You have peeked my interest now, share the wealth!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> You have peeked my interest now, share the wealth!


 I'll get with the vendor and try to confirm it. The reason I say that is becaause I use Dutch commands on him.

Here is the cross I had before him. Awesome sport dog...not a street dog though. I inherited him from another handler and I washed him out of our program after 4 months. When he let me walk up on 4 bad guys in the dark without alerting....and later I saw the avoidance upon scenting them, he had to go. He's a drug dog only up in Indiana now.


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## Caitlin Beaumont (May 2, 2012)

If he is a GSD, looks like he has a decent back. I think he is either a BYB GSD or has some Mal in his lines. Did the rescue give you any info on where he came from?


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

My local police dept, Mal X shepherd.









Another mal x shepherd








And this one they list as a shepherd, but he's a dutchie mix, because he's the tallest dutchie i've met yet. The photo is deceptive because that cop is only about 3" taller them me. (I'm 5'5") But that dog's back comes almost to my waist.

K


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Great looking group!
The man in the middle looks very familiar to me but I can't place where.


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

They all work for the Tampa Police Dept. http://www.tampagov.net/dept_Police...t/Special_Support_Division/K-9_unit/index.asp
Good bunch of guys. Crazy bunch of dogs!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Karen M Wood said:


> They all work for the Tampa Police Dept. http://www.tampagov.net/dept_Police...t/Special_Support_Division/K-9_unit/index.asp
> Good bunch of guys. Crazy bunch of dogs!



I knew I had seen/met him before. At an OPD training day or maybe during monthly regional multi agency explosives training modules if he's worked a bomb dog in the past.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Fred, for my money I'd say a young, lanky GSD all the way.

Howard, your present dog looks GSD from the side, head profile but from the front he has those close set eyes and possum head like a lot of Mals. :grin: :wink:


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

nice pics !!
.... i like "variety" in dogs too 

tried to post a pic to add some comic relief but couldn't get it in here, so it went to the photo gallery section ... not a psd but has a great cat guard //lol//

Happy holidays to all. Kinda weird, but this one is stacking up to be one of my worst and one of my best on record.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Funny in all these crosses shown to me they seem to have a mal appearance


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

I was looking for another dog on the TPD site but i think he's been retired because he was a mal cross that looked like a body builder shepherd. Shepherds coat, dark sable coloring, big husky male. Awesome looking animal and a good solid working dog. Can't remember his name any more. But also a nice clean dog at the clinic, cause some of the nut bags the cops get are just nasty! (Disgusting kennel dogs!)


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Fred Yankellow said:


> I would love to see a picture of that one. Thanks so much!





It's interesting to see the working traits in crosses. Mine is more GSD like. This one is definately more mal like. They both have the drive but mine is more manageable (maybe it's experience) and this new handler has his hands full with this little rocket. Nothing like trial by......crazy Mal.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Fred Yankellow said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I recently adopted a dog. He is wonderful and we love him. This is nothing more than curiosity. He is not going anywhere no matter what he is !!!
> 
> ...


 
GSD or GSD X....


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## Alexis Roy (Dec 7, 2011)

Looks like a BYB sable German Shepherd to me. I don't see any Mal in there at all....And every single other cross listed on this thread has very obvious Malinois traits to it.


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## Bill Hoban (Jun 27, 2006)

Looks 100% GSD to me aas well... Very good looking dog either way.. Whats his temperment like? Does he have over the top Mali type drives?


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## Marcel Winter (Mar 29, 2013)

It,s a GSD 100 %


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## patricia powers (Nov 14, 2010)

i agree. 100% gsd. i don't see any mali there. pjp


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I don't know if any dog breeder that does not listen to the SV is concidered a "backyard breeder" but I like the looks of the dog in the OP. Actually all the ones posted so far look great to me. I don't study conformation though and I'm not that picky so long as the ears stand up. I don't think I would buy a floppy eared herding dog. Thats about the end of my conformation standard that and a straight back.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Is your dog really young? If so, I think your dog may be 100% GSD. Being that he's a sable, his color will continue to change (lighten and darken) as he matures, and even once he is an adult, you'll see color changes when the seasons change. As he matures, I believe he'll most likely fill out a lot more, and look more like a traditional GSD.


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## Fred Yankellow (Dec 13, 2013)

susan tuck said:


> Is your dog really young? If so, I think your dog may be 100% GSD. Being that he's a sable, his color will continue to change (lighten and darken) as he matures, and even once he is an adult, you'll see color changes when the seasons change. As he matures, I believe he'll most likely fill out a lot more, and look more like a traditional GSD.


Yes, he's very young (well under 2 years). Thanks!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

GSD

Here's a video of Onya v. Fliesenstein. I've seen her in the flesh and always thought she was rather pale in colour but she's not pale in temperament!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

And if you look at Eugen Ecker's "Fasanerie" dogs, you'll see some similar:

http://www.fasanerie2000.de/

Our elder GSD is "Dunkel Grau" dark grey, i.e. looks brown with beige undercoat.

The younger one was "Dunkel Grau gewölkt", i.e. very dark grey but with silver white undercoat.


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

100% GSD... Mali's always give away their presence in the face, specifically the eyes, IME. Having a "Mali build" doesn't equate to mal. My GSD has a Mali build.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Its a GSD, no question


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## mike johnson (Dec 14, 2012)

Jon Harris said:


> same thing as the shepernois
> 
> just a play on words Most posters here have learned my humor is a little uh bent


if you really want to know, do a swab , and send to akc


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

Mike DNA doesn't work that way, least not in real life, now if your dog was on CSI maybe they could pin down the exact breeds. But those DNA test do not select the exact breed just yet. It's more like the roulette wheel, throw the die and see where it lands. Red is shepherd blakc is mal, your chances are 50 /50 % oh and for good measure they will throw in Irish wolfhound for free...........
Don't waste your $60 just yet on a DNA test. Unless you have both parents (or three) an you want to prove who the daddy is.


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## Mike Curtis (Mar 21, 2012)

I think that is 100% GSD


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

When the average person looks at a Belgian Malinois, he might easily mistake the dog for a German Shepherd. The two breeds look remarkably alike and although they are completely different breeds that originated from different areas of the world, they are both shepherds and have similar coat colors and markings. Thus the breeds are often mistaken for each other by those who do not know the differences that tell the breeds apart.

The Belgian Malinois is a slightly smaller dog than the German Shepherd. While the Belgian Malinois stands at between 24 to 26 inches tall for males and 22 to 24 inches tall for females, the German Shepherd has the same height standard; the difference comes in the dog's length. The Belgian Malinois is a square dog, his length actually equaling his height (though females can be slightly longer). German Shepherds are longer than they are tall, and this gives them more of a rectangular shape rather than a square shape.

The look of the dogs is also different, even though they look similar. The German Shepherd is tan in color for his main body; he has a black marking that resembles a saddle on his back, as well as the black mask, ears, and cheeks. The Belgian Malinois also has the black facial markings like the German Shepherd, but his body color is fawn; he does not have black marking on his body, but rather the hairs on his body have black tips, giving him a black overlay.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I've said it on this forum before, and I'll say it again... #-o

A GSD looks like a GSD, and a Malinois... looks like a GSD with wurms. Easy to work it out it from there...


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Tilly Smith said:


> When the average person looks at a Belgian Malinois, he might easily mistake the dog for a German Shepherd. The two breeds look remarkably alike and although they are completely different breeds that originated from different areas of the world, they are both shepherds and have similar coat colors and markings. Thus the breeds are often mistaken for each other by those who do not know the differences that tell the breeds apart.
> 
> The Belgian Malinois is a slightly smaller dog than the German Shepherd. While the Belgian Malinois stands at between 24 to 26 inches tall for males and 22 to 24 inches tall for females, the German Shepherd has the same height standard; the difference comes in the dog's length. The Belgian Malinois is a square dog, his length actually equaling his height (though females can be slightly longer). German Shepherds are longer than they are tall, and this gives them more of a rectangular shape rather than a square shape.
> 
> The look of the dogs is also different, even though they look similar. The German Shepherd is tan in color for his main body; he has a black marking that resembles a saddle on his back, as well as the black mask, ears, and cheeks. The Belgian Malinois also has the black facial markings like the German Shepherd, but his body color is fawn; he does not have black marking on his body, but rather the hairs on his body have black tips, giving him a black overlay.



Tilly, what breed do you think the dog is?

If you take and use other people's words directly, it is courteous to give the source. The above paragraphs you shared were verbatim from this site: www.terrificpets.com/articles/10274365.asp

(or maybe another origin, if someone lifted it from somewhere else prior to the above site).

It is always more interesting to engage in a real person's original ideas and opinions, rather than those borrowed from others.


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## Tilly Smith (May 6, 2009)

Thanks Meg for getting the link to work as a reference ... I gave up trying to get it to work from my ipad.

Sorry one is not as "interesting" as you clearly are ...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what kind of tool goes and posts direct text written by someone else in a fashion that makes it look like their own?

at least paraphrase LOL..

not hard to say, here is something I read that was written by XXX  and put it in quotes or italics or something...even just ...XXX...


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## ravi nambiar (Aug 29, 2012)

Looks like a gsd to me.


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## Robert L. Reiter (Feb 15, 2009)

Looks like a Shepherd to me. Sometimes you get long, lanky ones, sometimes you get the big, brutal, gorgeous structures. Sometimes they both come in the same litter, even in great blood line crosses.

I have been told that back in the day some breeders used Malis studes on the sly to get the drives up.

Anything is possible when people compete in shows and trials and want more beauty or drive, pigment, or whatever.

I had a cattleman tell me that the top US Hereford bull, and the most sought-after for semen, at one time was a mother-son inbreeding. And no one gave a damn. everyone wanted to use him. This guy was an animal genetics professor at Ohio State University.

It's a GSD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi, Robert,

Please don't forget your intro post here:

http://www.WorkingDogForum.com/vBulletin/f20/


Thank you!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> ... If you take and use other people's words directly, it is courteous to give the source.


.... and it's also a rule here (as on most webboards) not to copy and paste someone else's text without 
citation and a link.


Thank you!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

So .... back on topic ....


FWIW (probably not much), I think all GSD too.


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## Ken Seminatore (Apr 20, 2011)

Looks like a GSD, but?


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