# Bark and hold great video



## Peter Cho (Apr 21, 2010)

Great video!
Especially about jumping high off the ground during barking and hold. 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCqeYTjR3IM&sns=fb&desktop_uri=/watch?v=CCqeYTjR3IM&sns=fb#


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Peter Cho said:


> Great video!
> Especially about jumping high off the ground during barking and hold.
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCqeYTjR3IM&sns=fb&desktop_uri=/watch?v=CCqeYTjR3IM&sns=fb#


I saw this video a long time ago.. actually greatly influenced how I train and polish our bark and hold


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Peter Cho said:


> Great video!
> Especially about jumping high off the ground during barking and hold.


Dogs keep all four feet on the ground so they can run away. So is that good element to have in your guarding? 

Every dog that I have ever seen run in a trial had all four feet on the ground. 



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## David Baker (Aug 31, 2013)

Christopher Smith said:


> Dogs keep all four feet on the ground so they can run away. So is that good element to have in your guarding?
> 
> Every dog that I have ever seen run in a trial had all four feet on the ground.
> 
> ...



Who said anything about running away??? Youre not going to stand on one foot if youre in a fight with another person are you? Well, unless youre going to attempt "the crane" LoL. No, people and in the case dogs, should have feet planted for manuverability (spl?), agility, and to give a good base for an attack. Just like martial arts/boxing. Balance is crucial in a fight. And obviously, the bark and hold is portraying a dog ready for a fight if the helper decides to give him one. It is just a simulation of a real fight.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

David Baker said:


> Who said anything about running away??? Youre not going to stand on one foot if youre in a fight with another person are you? Well, unless youre going to attempt "the crane" LoL. No, people and in the case dogs, should have feet planted for manuverability (spl?), agility, and to give a good base for an attack. Just like martial arts/boxing. Balance is crucial in a fight. And obviously, the bark and hold is portraying a dog ready for a fight if the helper decides to give him one. It is just a simulation of a real fight.


bark and hold is only a learned behavior,real dominance does not involve barking. watch dogs outside and you see it all time


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Stefan Schaub said:


> bark and hold is only a learned behavior,real dominance does not involve barking. watch dogs outside and you see it all time



I was about to ask if any of them had ever seen a dog on a real hold [on a person]. Key word--simulated and from the human's point of view--not dogs. B & H is mostly about display and frustration. The one with the cold fixed stare and his mouth closed is the one you worry about.

T


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Stefan Schaub said:


> bark and hold is only a learned behavior,real dominance does not involve barking. watch dogs outside and you see it all time


Yes, but since a dog MUST bark in the blind, a dog can be trained to bark out of aggression, or trained to bark for a ball.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> Yes, but since a dog MUST bark in the blind, a dog can be trained to bark out of aggression, or trained to bark for a ball.


how many dogs bark for aggression??? and why should they bark for aggression??25 years ago they have bark for aggression because all time when they have come around the blind someone hit them with a real stick.today no Judge would give you points for that barking because most time the dog have show also bad behavior,that means hair up unsure standing in front of the helper sitting far left to sleeve site or barking with jumping and holding his front legs away that you can not hit them.

is nice that someone tries to tell now all the people out there that a trained barking for ball,wedge or what ever can not bring full points. most of the winner of most big champion ships get trained today the same way.why??because you get 10 points.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

In looking at the "incorrect" examples and the "correct" examples --there is some seriousness that is quite lacking in the incorrect dog although the positioning is correct. I guess you certainly can train a behavior but either the dog has that intensity or it doesn't. Not sure if growls and hackles up is the intensity we SHOULD have but clearly not what the judges are looking at. Is coming from the dog from a place of confidence and domination? Or fear that this helper may harm me? I suppose all that bouncing and jumping maybe viewed as "avoidance". I do like to see the intense barking that seems to say "bring on the fight Mr. Helper, bring it on" Perhaps the 1-10 scale should be brought in to clearly see those dogs whose fight is a direct representation of their genetics rather than just excellent training. Hard to separate the "wheat from the chaff" at that level. Good thing the B and H is not the total picture of the dog. Sure wish it was only 5 points because it gets too much weight on the score for the dog--but it is the initial crowd pleaser.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Then how do you test for real aggression? If a dog is barking for a ball or wedge how do you evaluate this dog's aggression? 

This is why I think, that more than the training routine, the dog needs to be worked in other scenarios where you can expect its mindset to change. 


Regards


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Then how do you test for real aggression? If a dog is barking for a ball or wedge how do you evaluate this dog's aggression?
> 
> This is why I think, that more than the training routine, the dog needs to be worked in other scenarios where you can expect its mindset to change.
> 
> ...


have him come around the blind and have the helper clobber him with a stick..joking of course, sort of...


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## Shade Whitesel (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm just glad to have some clarity on the picture of what to train for. 

One question though- a neutral person in a blind is a "real threat"? (I am not criticizing, just asking for clarification.) The helper in the blind is supposed to be totally passive, to the point of not even looking at the dog.


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## Shade Whitesel (Aug 18, 2010)

In almost every video of the "correct" barking, the helper is staring and posturing at the dog (except for the first one which is at a trial.)
I'd love it if they'd stare at the dog in trial!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

David Baker said:


> Who said anything about running away???


 I did.




> Youre not going to stand on one foot if youre in a fight with another person are you? Well, unless youre going to attempt "the crane" LoL. No, people and in the case dogs, should have feet planted for manuverability (spl?), agility, and to give a good base for an attack. Just like martial arts/boxing.


First of all thank you for recognizing that I'm a BMF apt to Crane Kick somebody at a moments notice. But I don't go out looking for a fight like I want my dog to do. I want my dog to be the bully. Much more Johnny than Daniel-san. We sweep the legs up in this bitch!









Go back and listen to the quote in the video. She even talks about the dog being able to move in all directions with *all four feet on the ground*. Now why would a dog need to move backward in a bark and hold if its not leaving the helper? Anyway, every example of "correct" work she shows has a dog coming off of it's front feet.:-? 

My dog only need to go forward while engaged with the helper in IPO.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Shade Whitesel said:


> I'm just glad to have some clarity on the picture of what to train for.


You only have clarity on what one organization says it's judges are looking for and that's all. The first 30 seconds of thee video is spent explaining how they are looking for something different than other judges. And do you think that all judges in USCA agree with this video? 

Just train your dog to show off his best qualities and you will do well under all judges.


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## David Baker (Aug 31, 2013)

Lol at the crane kick at moments notice. Nice. Wax on wax off chris. Don't forget!! And watch out for those pesky Cobra kai kids. Chuck norris approves of your post, sir.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Christopher Smith said:


> You only have clarity on what one organization says it's judges are looking for and that's all. The first 30 seconds of thee video is spent explaining how they are looking for something different than other judges. And do you think that all judges in USCA agree with this video?
> 
> Just train your dog to show off his best qualities and you will do well under all judges.


I am happy that someone here have a clear mind. there is a rule book it says what the dog must do, how every Judge interpret is a different thing.

i must watch out what i say or Thomas jump on my back and tells me the whole story who is who!!


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

All I learned from that video was that Anne Marie Chaffin likes German Shepherds 

BTW, the first "correct" barking dog she showed was not displaying anything I would consider "dominant" or "convincing", and really, it didn't look a whole lot different than the "incorrect" dog.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, they shouldn't really speak of bark & hold "in the wild," since I would say show me where that exist. Every hold I ever witnessed, the secure/confident dog wasn't barking. Have seen barkers get their heads bashed because livestock called their barking bluff. As for the all four feet off the ground--pure rubbish. They don't realize that dogs work stock that are a lot taller than them. The only way for my bouv to deal with the yearling cow that was coming at her and me was to be on her hind legs gripping the nose. She can't reach it if she keeps all four feet on the ground. Same with my corgis. Stock don't always present a lowered head so the dogs can reach it for a grip. Several of the herding breeds utilize body hits where they don't have all four feet on the ground and one breed that originated as a herding breed was bred for a trot that has a period of suspension where all four feet are off the ground. I can understand the dog's focus should be on the man and not the sleeve but other than that, you can't make much of a determination of what drive he is in. I could argue that the bouncing dog is just as into the man and seeking control as the one that plants his feet on the ground. Some of those barks have anxiety whines in terms of tone. Bottom line, its all training because how many of them see the guy in the blind as a foe? Realistically, should they? 


T


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Bottom line, its all training because how many of them see the guy in the blind as a foe? Realistically, should they?
> 
> 
> T



Most of the dogs competing at a high level in the sport see the helper as a real threat at some level. And yes they should. Why? Because it puts the dog in the correct mental state. When the dog has correct drives and is working in the correct mental state eveything else is easier.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Most of the dogs competing at a high level in the sport see the helper as a real threat at some level. And yes they should. Why? Because it puts the dog in the correct mental state. When the dog has correct drives and is working in the correct mental state eveything else is easier.


What is it about that passive helper in that blind with no intent to escape or attack that is a threat from the dog's point of view? In that situation, what is the correct frame of mind? All you can really hope for is him generalizing something you showed him.

T


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> What is it about that passive helper in that blind with no intent to escape or attack that is a threat from the dog's point of view? In that situation, what is the correct frame of mind? All you can really hope for is him *generalizing something you showed him*.
> 
> T


exactly, that a helper can be a threat, in or out of the blind, based on things you have showed him in training... how else would it be done? how does the dog know that the helper has no intent to escape or attack?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> exactly, that a helper can be a threat, in or out of the blind, based on things you have showed him in training... how else would it be done? how does the dog know that the helper has no intent to escape or attack?


Have you ever seen an untrained dog hold someone?

T


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Have you ever seen an untrained dog hold someone?
> 
> T


yes I have, plenty of them, of all shapes and sizes....

not sure what that has to do with a dog being in a certain frame of mind in a bark and hold in a blind though, or IPO, which involves training.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> yes I have, plenty of them, of all shapes and sizes....
> 
> not sure what that has to do with a dog being in a certain frame of mind in a bark and hold in a blind though, or IPO, which involves training.


Yet you ask how does the dog know? The problem is the exercise. As an I found him and my bark lets the handler know--fine. As a hold--not realistic. Judging by the USCA video, what demonstrates that certain frame of mind seems to be highly debatable.

T


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

And what about the "Flushing bark". 

I don't think the dogs are "holding" at all at the blind, I think they are using the canine "Flushing bark" to get the prey to move so that they can chase or bite. As mentioned, a predator with aggressive intent is silent, staring and immobile. There no difference in the IPO dogs barking at the blind than **** hounds that have treed or a beagle that has put a rabbit to hole.

JMHO


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Stefan Schaub said:


> how many dogs bark for aggression??? and why should they bark for aggression??25 years ago they have bark for aggression because all time when they have come around the blind someone hit them with a real stick.today no Judge would give you points for that barking because most time the dog have show also bad behavior,that means hair up unsure standing in front of the helper sitting far left to sleeve site or barking with jumping and holding his front legs away that you can not hit them.


It's nice to see we agree on one thing Stefan - I fully agree with your comments.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Gerald Guay said:


> And what about the "Flushing bark".
> 
> I don't think the dogs are "holding" at all at the blind, I think they are using the canine "Flushing bark" to get the prey to move so that they can chase or bite. As mentioned, a predator with aggressive intent is silent, staring and immobile. There no difference in the IPO dogs barking at the blind than **** hounds that have treed or a beagle that has put a rabbit to hole.
> 
> JMHO


I think they are doing what they have been trained to do, I agree in a sense of course with your analogy, the intent of the exercise is a type of flushing scenario for sure, but a trained one, but the barrier that is stopping the dog from engaging is a mental one, and not a physical one, and that some dogs view a helper in a blind a little differently than a rabbit in a hole....


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Yet you ask how does the dog know? The problem is the exercise. As an I found him and my bark lets the handler know--fine. As a hold--not realistic. Judging by the USCA video, what demonstrates that certain frame of mind seems to be highly debatable.
> 
> T


terrasita .

not sure what you mean... have you ever seen a dog trained to do a bark and hold, do a real hold? or a police dog that slips into a bark and hold for what ever reason? pretty realistic in my book.

the exercise in its intent was to hold the helper in the blind, the dog of course is doing what he is trained to do, if the dog is good he is looking to bite, to make a reason to bite, to hold, is not the intent in the dogs mind I dont think..

for you to say it is not realistic is kinda silly in my book, if you were to go somewhere and someone sent their dog to do a bark and hold on you, and the dog did it, would you say that is not realistic?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> What is it about that passive helper in that blind with no intent to escape or attack that is a threat from the dog's point of view?


His prior experience with passive helpers.

But how would the dog know what the helpers intent is? I'm a damn good dog trainer but have yet to train a dog to be a mind reader. How do you develop a dog's ESP drive?






> In that situation, what is the correct frame of mind? All you can really hope for is him generalizing something you showed him.


 The main element should be aggression. How that aggression is has been tapped into can come from many different places and depends on the what the dog brings to the table character and drive wise.

Lastly, you can't tell me what to hope for! If I allow that you'll be trying to steal my dreams next.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Joby Becker said:


> I think they are doing what they have been trained to do, I agree in a sense of course with your analogy, the intent of the exercise is a type of flushing scenario for sure, but a trained one, but the barrier that is stopping the dog from engaging is a mental one, and not a physical one, and that some dogs view a helper in a blind a little differently than a rabbit in a hole....


 
This is why I prefer the bite, out, guard of KNPV... Get's easier to see the dog's natural guarding (or not) this way. 


JMO


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Gerald Guay said:


> And what about the "Flushing bark".
> 
> I don't think the dogs are "holding" at all at the blind, I think they are using the canine "Flushing bark" to get the prey to move so that they can chase or bite. As mentioned, a predator with aggressive intent is silent, staring and immobile. There no difference in the IPO dogs barking at the blind than **** hounds that have treed or a beagle that has put a rabbit to hole.
> 
> JMHO


Gerald I agree with you that flushing can be the reason a dog barks. And if the dog brings that instinct to the table, I like to use it. But I think you are way of base believing that aggressive intent is silent. The dogs we use are NOT natural predators. There drives and instincts are diminished and increased by breeder selection. They don't do the same things wild canines do. I even know some dogs that bark while they are biting.And beyond instincts we have training.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> This is why I prefer the bite, out, guard of KNPV... Get's easier to see the dog's natural guarding (or not) this way.
> 
> 
> JMO


What is differnt about the out, bite, guard in KNPV in comparison to the IPO out, bite, guard?


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> terrasita .
> 
> not sure what you mean... have you ever seen a dog trained to do a bark and hold, do a real hold? or a police dog that slips into a bark and hold for what ever reason? pretty realistic in my book.
> 
> ...


Maybe if you trained him to hold, you might see more of the dog if the actual hold was tested instead of the bark. As for silly, I guess you could go that route if your understanding is limited.

T


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Christopher Smith said:


> What is differnt about the out, bite, guard in KNPV in comparison to the IPO out, bite, guard?


 
Dude...seriously? lol My rate is 200 Euros/hour. Are you willing to pay me to consider engaging in an intelligent discussion with you? 

If not,

How do you like my new dog? Looked similar to what you keep in your yard, so I thought, why the hell not!


Best regards,

Tiago


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Tiago Fontes said:


> This is why I prefer the bite, out, guard of KNPV... Get's easier to see the dog's natural guarding (or not) this way.
> 
> 
> JMO


Really? last time I checked with my KNPV peeps that was a trained behavior.. additionally, I have seen many KNPV dogs not bark at all after the out in the guard. Are you telling me this is just the dog's choice he has made?? :-k


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> Lastly, you can't tell me what to hope for! If I allow that you'll be trying to steal my dreams next.


You friggin' crack me up, Chris! 8)


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Shade Whitesel said:


> In almost every video of the "correct" barking, the helper is staring and posturing at the dog (except for the first one which is at a trial.)
> I'd love it if they'd stare at the dog in trial!


The note is correct barking, not correct helperwork 

Why would you want them to stare at the dog during the C phase?

Looking at the dog is not correct, should not happen in the trial (yet it does, at most trials/levels). It is helping the dog.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Dude...seriously? lol My rate is 200 Euros/hour. Are you willing to pay me to consider engaging in an intelligent discussion with you?
> 
> If not,
> 
> ...


Tiago you need to Check the heading on the page! This is the *WORKING* Dog Forum. Get that showline crap out of here! My dog is pure workinglines. I know he's a good one because he ain't got no papers or nothin'.


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## Peter Cho (Apr 21, 2010)

Sue DiCero said:


> The note is correct barking, not correct helperwork
> 
> Why would you want them to stare at the dog during the C phase?
> 
> Looking at the dog is not correct, should not happen in the trial (yet it does, at most trials/levels). It is helping the dog.


Sorry. A helper is to keep an eye on the dog at all time. You don't stare in a menacing way. Neutral. Safety is key.

If in training if helper rewards by popping the sleeve, no amount of staring is going to help in improving the bark, IMO. 

In fact, one should train the dog so that a neutral helper creates the MOST conflict.

IMO


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Maybe if you trained him to hold, you might see more of the dog if the actual hold was tested instead of the bark. As for silly, I guess you could go that route if your understanding is limited.
> 
> T


please explain what a natural hold looks like in your mind, and what a trained hold trained by you is like.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Peter Cho said:


> Sorry. A helper is to keep an eye on the dog at all time. You don't stare in a menacing way. Neutral. Safety is key.
> 
> If in training if helper rewards by popping the sleeve, no amount of staring is going to help in improving the bark, IMO.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Keep an eye on the dog - do not look or stare at the dog. Neutral.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> please explain what a natural hold looks like in your mind, and what a trained hold trained by you is like.


Why don't you start.

T


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Why don't you start.
> 
> T


Terrisita, 

I really have no clue what you are trying to convey, that is why I was asking a few questions, which you ignored and then posted more confusing comments, that is why I was asking.

I am not a dumb person, but I really am not sure what you are saying, and how it all connects together here.

most of the dogs I have owned are not natural holding type dogs, unless you mean hoilding with a bite, they have been more active in their responses, as opposed to passive. 

I train a bark and hold for fun, but would not use one in real life personally, unless onleash. I also train a "guard" position, that is quiet, also which I would probably never use offleash. I think if the shit was that bad, most likely either would not be reliable, and the dogs would engage anyway if allowed the freedom of a guard in real life at a distance.. 

most dogs that I have seen that do a "natural" "hold" have some serious inhibition towards biting. and if they did bite, they were lacking in the desire to fight department.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> yes I have, plenty of them, of all shapes and sizes....
> 
> not sure what that has to do with a dog being in a certain frame of mind in a bark and hold in a blind though, or IPO, which involves training.


so when you said this 'hold' meant bite--to you?


T


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Dude...seriously? lol My rate is 200 Euros/hour. Are you willing to pay me to consider engaging in an intelligent discussion with you?
> 
> If not,
> 
> ...


My rate is only 42$/hour but I promise you will leave my trainings facility and your dog can do it, you will know that I am all time right and on the end you want buy a puppy from me. Than on your home way you will call Thomas and tell him that I can make his dog biting in the escape bite.

I am funny today, must be the air in Missouri


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Christopher Smith said:


> Tiago you need to Check the heading on the page! This is the *WORKING* Dog Forum. Get that showline crap out of here! My dog is pure workinglines. I know he's a good one because he ain't got no papers or nothin'.


 
My dog is 2-2 linebred on Rag Von Cleanfloorein's. He will be good, because he has all the right working blood. 


Speak not of what you know not!


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Stefan Schaub said:


> My rate is only 42$/hour but I promise you will leave my trainings facility and your dog can do it, you will know that I am all time right and on the end you want buy a puppy from me. Than on your home way you will call Thomas and tell him that I can make his dog biting in the escape bite.
> 
> I am funny today, must be the air in Missouri


 
I was alluding to my rate as a lawyer... Spending time here, posting on a lengthy thread takes time away from my clients. 

Yes, I am sure I would want to buy a dog from you... You have the best dogs in the world! 


Regards


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Britney Pelletier said:


> Really? last time I checked with my KNPV peeps that was a trained behavior.. additionally, I have seen many KNPV dogs not bark at all after the out in the guard. Are you telling me this is just the dog's choice he has made?? :-k


 
Who said anything about it not being a trained behavior? Try understanding my words, instead of trying to pick everything apart. 

Good luck with your new dog.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Tiago Fontes said:


> I was alluding to my rate as a lawyer... Spending time here, posting on a lengthy thread takes time away from my clients.
> 
> Yes, I am sure I would want to buy a dog from you... You have the best dogs in the world!
> 
> ...


I know you would✌


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Stefan Schaub said:


> My rate is only 42$/hour but I promise you will leave my trainings facility and your dog can do it, you will know that I am all time right and on the end you want buy a puppy from me. Than on your home way you will call Thomas and tell him that I can make his dog biting in the escape bite.
> 
> I am funny today, must be the air in Missouri


Gee Stefan do you have to mention me in every post you write? I'm starting to get worried you're becoming obsessed with me ? 

Seriously $42/hr is a decent rate and you're probably more then worth it.
I'm not sure where you're getting your information but Flann just got his IPO III earlier this month and had no problem with the escape bite in fact he only missed the escape bite at ONE trial.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> so when you said this 'hold' meant bite--to you?
> 
> 
> T


LOL...NO!

I am trying to find out what the hell you are talking about..
let me know if you just plan to ignore everything and to keep tossing one liners at me, and I will stop trying here.

to some people there is a "hold" that is done by certain types of dogs that involved the dog holding the person with the mouth. That is NOT what I think a hold is, not sure where you got that at all. 

You asked if I have seen untrained dogs do "holds", I said YES, plenty of them of all shapes and sizes. 

I did not say they were all my dogs, although I did also have a few dogs that would do this. 3 that I can think of for sure, probably more.

I have walked into at least 100 homes and saw the reactions of untrained and trained dogs, many many of which did some type of "holding" action (in their mind).

I wish to know what you are talking about, what is a hold to you? a natural one, and a realistic trained one.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Gee Stefan do you have to mention me in every post you write? I'm starting to get worried you're becoming obsessed with me ?
> 
> Seriously $42/hr is a decent rate and you're probably more then worth it.
> I'm not sure where you're getting your information but Flann just got his IPO III earlier this month and had no problem with the escape bite in fact he only missed the escape bite at ONE trial.


how much do you charge per hour Thomas? just curious 

any video of Flanns III?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> how much do you charge per hour Thomas? just curious
> 
> any video of Flanns III?


I don't charge anything. I help people who are willing to accept help and don't worry about the others.

I didn't take any video but there maybe someone who did.
I wouldn't be posting it anyway. I have no interest in any other opinions. The three judges (Ann Dolan and two apprentices) agreed on the scores and Flann is now an IPO III My third HOT
Dobermann.


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Gee Stefan do you have to mention me in every post you write? I'm starting to get worried you're becoming obsessed with me ?
> 
> Seriously $42/hr is a decent rate and you're probably more then worth it.
> I'm not sure where you're getting your information but Flann just got his IPO III earlier this month and had no problem with the escape bite in fact he only missed the escape bite at ONE trial.


For sure I am and it is not really important for me if she have get her 3!! But nice that she have get it


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Stefan Schaub said:


> For sure I am and it is not really important for me if she have get her 3!! But nice that she have get it


Flannchadh is a male not a female, but I bet you knew that?


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Flannchadh is a male not a female, but I bet you knew that?


Sorry did not know that.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Stefan Schaub said:


> Sorry did not know that.


OK. Sounds like some are enjoying your seminar? Good to hear


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> OK. Sounds like some are enjoying your seminar? Good to hear


By my count, ALL.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> By my count, ALL.


Ok, if you say/think so. I only do seminars with people I really agree with their style and like them personally.


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## Melissa Leistikow (Jan 5, 2012)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Ok, if you say/think so. I only do seminars with people I really agree with their style and like them personally.


Everyone that I have seen train with Stefan seems to be having a good time and learning a lot. People keep going back :smile:


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Melissa Leistikow said:


> Everyone that I have seen train with Stefan seems to be having a good time and learning a lot. People keep going back :smile:


He breeds nice dogs and he has dedicated students that are happy with his work......works for me 

Then there is his $42/hr rate, I know pet dog trainers that think there worth $100 + and personal protection dog trainers who just bought a bite suit and think the same.

Reasonable rates, a successful breeding program and satisfied students? Sounds like a nice business plan.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

gerald guay said:


> and what about the "flushing bark".
> 
> I don't think the dogs are "holding" at all at the blind, i think they are using the canine "flushing bark" to get the prey to move so that they can chase or bite. As mentioned, a predator with aggressive intent is silent, staring and immobile. There no difference in the ipo dogs barking at the blind than **** hounds that have treed or a beagle that has put a rabbit to hole.
> 
> Jmho


a1 =d>


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Ok, if you say/think so. I only do seminars with people I really agree with their style and like them personally.


I'm a tad different and look at it more like Geoff Empey. Its not personal for me. I have trained with people I did not have a personal relationship with. They had something to offer training-wise and that's what is important to me. However, the gravy here is that I enjoyed Stefan. I like confidence even if it does come with a dose of bad boy locker room humor. He's funny, passionate about what he believes in and loves what he is doing. He also cares that the people and dogs improve in their understanding and performance. What more could you ask for in a trainer? What's more, I like his dogs and what he is doing to preserve a breed that I love. As for training styles, I was pleasantly surprised to find wayyyyyy more similarities than differences in terms of how I approach dogs. Just because the style is different doesn't mean there isn't something to learn. I have notes of little tidbits that I can use to enhance my training from his discussion of various aspects of tracking, obedience and protection. One thing about him, he doesn't put BS labels on things and claim its something that its not. The differences I understand and he is able to thoroughly explain why he does what does within the context of what he trains for and it makes sense. Do I believe I can get it a different way? Given my beliefs and what I like to see in a dog, the answer to that is yes. If I'm wrong, I'd be willing to take the point consequences. The best part about it is that he is confident enough to not be offended that I may look at it differently. If anything, he laughs. Furthermore, I train other dogs than my personal dogs. When I meet people and discuss dogs I file away that information for later use. Even though its nothing I would do now, who knows, in the future, a certain dog may present itself and that information or method may be just what I need to work with that dog. I have met very few people that I believe truly understand dogs. He's one of them. I've also met very few people that I would let work one of my dogs. So far, he's one of them. A few years ago, a forum member [Mike Scheiber] who is now deceased, spoke very highly of his training and what he was doing in GSDs. He was right.

T


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