# Does your dog have this kind of courage?



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Dang...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA9pw53WaKQ&NR=1


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh HELL no [-o< Pretty intense video! The orgins of the Pit Bull, as a bull baiter are alive and well.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I thought for sure that dog would end up dead with the way it was being flung around like a rag doll.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I see he didn't go for the guy on the ground!:razz: 

Seriously, that was amazing to watch, my heart was in my mouth. I have NO idea what my dogs would do. They'd either get the hell out of there or get themselves killed fast, probably.:-o 

Was that a pit bull dog?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've seen this a number of times and have seen discussions on it. 
That is a showline Bull Terrier! :-o


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

I have also seen this video. A true testament to what the breed was meant to do, bite and hold on.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> Dang...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA9pw53WaKQ&NR=1


I hope I'm never in that situation to see how my dog reacts... [-o<


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## Frenk Delacroix (Oct 10, 2008)

Anna Kasho said:


> I see he didn't go for the guy on the ground!:razz:


My thought exactly! According to some theories propounded on this site, the dog should have jumped in and HELPED THE BULL. Because the man was down and dogs always go for the one down, see. (Not my opinion, btw.)
:-o


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Terry Fisk said:


> I hope I'm never in that situation to see how my dog reacts... [-o<



Maybe it's time for another WDF challenge. No muzzle this time. Yeah right.... somehow though, I can see Howard Gaines wanting to try this. [-X


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## Jaana Aadamsoo (Dec 5, 2008)

My first french bulldog took on a stallion when he broke from his gate and tied to mount the mare I was riding. He attacked the stallion head on, got stepped on, ran screaming for a second and attacked the horse again. Needless to say that he got injured pretty badly but was lucky enough to not get any bones broken. After knowing this sort of bravery, I was really surprised to see most of the dobermanns in the Finnish caracter test I went to see try to hide behind the owner or lie down when a man was attacking them or they were tied to a fence... :-s


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Frenk Delacroix said:


> My thought exactly! According to some theories propounded on this site, the dog should have jumped in and HELPED THE BULL. Because the man was down and dogs always go for the one down, see. (Not my opinion, btw.)
> :-o


Huh? As if a dog would ever consider a bull as part of his pack. LOL.

I take that back, my anatolian would have helped the bull if the man was a stranger.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

David Scholes said:


> Huh? As if a dog would ever consider a bull as part of his pack. LOL.
> 
> I take that back, my anatolian would have helped the bull if the man was a stranger.



I think Frank is referring to the WDF challenge thread where it seems the dog like to go for the man on the ground.


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## Frenk Delacroix (Oct 10, 2008)

David Scholes said:


> Huh? As if a dog would ever consider a bull as part of his pack. LOL.
> 
> I take that back, my anatolian would have helped the bull if the man was a stranger.


It has been suggested on other threads (Chris Michalek alludes to this above) that a dog would join a perp in attacking its handler if the handler was down, because of an innate tendency to go for whoever is weakest. 

I find this hard to believe, and I'm glad to see you do, too!


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Frenk Delacroix said:


> It has been suggested on other threads (Chris Michalek alludes to this above) that a dog would join a perp in attacking its handler if the handler was down, because of an innate tendency to go for whoever is weakest.
> 
> I find this hard to believe, and I'm glad to see you do, too!


Actually just the opposite. I tend to believe those with real life LE & military work experience who train for it because they KNOW that often (not always but most of the time) the dog will get confused and get their handler on the ground if not trained for it.

I just find it strange that people would construe a bull on man attack as equivalent to a man on man or dog on dog as discussed in the WDF Challenge thread. Man and dog bond to dog. Bulls are always viewed as prey and not viewed as a pack member UNLESS you have a dog bred and bonded for livestock guardian work. The dog sees the prey animal and the aggressive MOVEMENT and of course would go for the prey animal. If it was two men, or two dogs, or a dog and a man, then he'd have a tendency of going for the one on the bottom depending on the amount of movement, experience of the dog, training, level of pack bond, lots of factors.

I have actually witnessed a dog go for a man the dog thought was fighting a hooved (usually prey) animal. My mare was having trouble giving birth and my neighbor came out and helped pull out the foal. Our anatolian went for the man but because she viewed the horses as part of her pack.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Apples and oranges, not the same. ;o)


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

todd pavlus said:


> I have also seen this video. A true testament to what the breed was meant to do, bite and hold on.



LOL - it makes teaching a reliable "out" difficult!


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

I saw that clip a while back maybe a year or so. It was passed around the Bulldog Boards.

I don't know that my AB would take care of buisness with a bull. He seems to know to stay away from the moose. He did however catch a very nasty 100% russian boar when he was 7 months old. We used a break stick to take him off the top off the head. No worse for wear. He was drug around and slammed into some things but finally got control of the boar.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Glad he fared well. Last week one of our locals had to put their pit down when one of these feral hogs tore him up good. Pigs are tough.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Originally Posted by *Frenk Delacroix*  
_It has been suggested on other threads (Chris Michalek alludes to this above) that a dog would join a perp in attacking its handler if the handler was down, because of an innate tendency to go for whoever is weakest. 

I find this hard to believe, and I'm glad to see you do, too!


_
You are entitled to your beliefs, I hope you aren't proved wrong one day, and find yourself in the same situation-as you won't be prepared with that belief. I looked at the video very slowly- it is difficult to see, but appears that the dog first goes toward the man for a target, and then is at his legs-and ends up under the bull- did the guy get nipped first, or was the dog going for the guy down, we'll never really know, but regardless- it is one stupid lucky guy, one tough dog and one tough bull.


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## Frenk Delacroix (Oct 10, 2008)

David Scholes said:


> I tend to believe those with real life LE & military work experience who train for it because they KNOW that often (not always but most of the time) the dog will get confused and get their handler on the ground if not trained for it.


You're already talking about something else. The point of the WDF thread was not that the dog was "confused," it was, "The guy is down, I'm going for him!" 

But of course we were just joking about this dog not attacking the guy on the ground. Just for the record. I'm not sure if Mo is serious or not, though -- he seems to suggest the dog was actually going for the guy, got "confused" and got the bull instead!


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Frenk Delacroix said:


> You're already talking about something else. The point of the WDF thread was not that the dog was "confused," it was, "The guy is down, I'm going for him!"
> 
> But of course we were just joking about this dog not attacking the guy on the ground. Just for the record. I'm not sure if Mo is serious or not, though -- he seems to suggest the dog was actually going for the guy, got "confused" and got the bull instead!


Like Jerry said, this situation is not the same as the WDF Challenge, apples & oranges but as Mo points out there might be some we can learn from. The point of the other thread is that it happens, we don't know why, just train for it to prevent the situation from happening. Especially for LE & military this training could save their life.

I joke a lot on this board, but in this situation it is too serious. I'm not sure if it's because of the Disney/Lassie effect but too many people want to scoff at the idea that their dog might bite them if they were on the ground in a fight. It's incredible that despite video, there is joking and denial. You see skepticism on the Challenge thread posts and in your posts here. It does seem that the skeptics are the ones with the great bond with their dog and would never think the need to take the "challenge" or train for a fight going to ground.

I think Mo was serious about the dog having some confusion on targeting. A dog's perceptions are not the same as ours. Just goes to show more of a need to train so the dog doesn't waste time thinking through any confusion in the heat of battle.

I'd make a joke here about ego and it's effect on cleaning up the gene pool but I'll refrain :-\".


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