# Firing squad in Utah



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

I found this to be kind of intersting. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37759499/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts?GT1=43001

I personally think its more humane than lethal injection. When you got a target on your chest and a dozen bullets flying at you, there is no question you are going to die!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Those articles always make me chuckle. Exacly how many bullets are in a "barrage". another article I read stated it was a "hail" of bullets. Obviously, the answer is in the reading. There are four bullets in a barrage/hail. Instructions were simple; remember, good sight picture, control your breathing, and squeeze. I would prefer they use the method I've suggested several times to execute the condemned. I've always felt an electric bleacher gives more bang for the buck.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Those articles always make me chuckle. Exacly how many bullets are in a "barrage". another article I read stated it was a "hail" of bullets. Obviously, the answer is in the reading. There are four bullets in a barrage/hail. Instructions were simple; remember, good sight picture, control your breathing, and squeeze. I would prefer they use the method I've suggested several times to execute the condemned. I've always felt and electric bleacher gives more bang for the buck.
> 
> DFrost



 "Electric bleacher" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Gotta love it!
Suprised Texas hasn't figured that one out. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> "Electric bleacher" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Gotta love it!
> Suprised Texas hasn't figured that one out. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


 So Bob when it hits you, you do the wave? [-X


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> So Bob when it hits you, you do the wave? [-X


I'm thinking more like popcorn in a skillet!  :-# :-\"


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

just one more POS getting his just reward. they should all die by firing squad--e-chair/lethal injection, blah, blah.

did these sick SOBs show "compassion" to their victims?? i have a hard time with this (obviously, right?).


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I believe the method for execution should be selected by the victims family. I don't see any need for speedy executions. 

For instance if it is death by firing squad, I would choose blind drunk guys to pull the triggers.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

ann schnerre said:


> just one more POS getting his just reward. they should all die by firing squad--e-chair/lethal injection, blah, blah.
> 
> did these sick SOBs show "compassion" to their victims?? i have a hard time with this (obviously, right?).


 
This POS really had it coming.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100615/ap_on_re_us/us_texas_execution_dna

I would rather be compassionate for my sake, not thier sake. Just because they were evil, and vindictive does not give me the right to be. Ann **** it....lets just bring back public beheadings, crusifixtions, and burning at the stake. I always wonder when people are for harmful acts to another human being behind the guise of justice.


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## Bob Solimini (Aug 10, 2008)

I find it funny that every message board I find (dog or not) I never see the bleeding heart liberals that the news channels always seem to find on the street! I also think it is funny that people say it is inhumane to have a firing squad, or to get rid of the death penalty. How humane was is when this jack ass walked into a building and started shooting innocent people? Why does the murder rate drop so fast in states with the death penalty and more people carrying firearms?? 
In Saudi Arabia if you shop-lift they "humanely" remove your hand... I'll bet the shop-lifting rate is low!!!
I say bring back public hangings in the town square! Back in history Fathers would bring their children to the public hangings and say to them... “You see son; that’s what happens to people who do bad things...” IT WORKED!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

How about if they died the way they killed. Of course you are going to have to bring one of his compadres out of prison that enjoys doing that kind of thing


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Solimini said:


> I find it funny that every message board I find (dog or not) I never see the bleeding heart liberals that the news channels always seem to find on the street! I also think it is funny that people say it is inhumane to have a firing squad, or to get rid of the death penalty. How humane was is when this jack ass walked into a building and started shooting innocent people? Why does the murder rate drop so fast in states with the death penalty and more people carrying firearms??
> In Saudi Arabia if you shop-lift they "humanely" remove your hand... I'll bet the shop-lifting rate is low!!!
> I say bring back public hangings in the town square! Back in history Fathers would bring their children to the public hangings and say to them... “You see son; that’s what happens to people who do bad things...” IT WORKED!



Gotta say that I agree 100% with Bob on this. Although, I kinda like the idea of shooting out there elbows & kneecaps & letting them lay there & rot until they bleed out in excruciating pain. The cruel kinds of execution might make a greater deterrent to violent crimes. 

I have always felt the kind considerate exicuition is stupid.....if they choose to live by the sword ...let them die by thew sword. I know the tree hugger types say that just because they are aminals, we shouldn't stoop to their level....BS....I say we should. There was nothing humain about their actions. Kind should be met with kind.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

I think we should tie them to a tree, out in the back swamps in So. FLa. , the hungry gator, snakes, bear and panthers can visit, then the buzzards, and red fire ants and bugs need to eat to....slow and painful, he or she can think long and hard about what they did....and hopefully suffer while they are there, they didn't give their victims a choice...or think about the victims family suffering long after.......why do they deserve quick and painless?


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Mo Earle said:


> I think we should tie them to a tree, out in the back swamps in So. FLa. , the hungry gator, snakes, bear and panthers can visit, then the buzzards, and red fire ants and bugs need to eat to....slow and painful, he or she can think long and hard about what they did....and hopefully suffer while they are there, they didn't give their victims a choice...or think about the victims family suffering long after.......why do they deserve quick and painless?


 
Is this a Tourist ad for Florida?! LMAO Seriously there should be no doubt that I agree with the majority on this subject. All except "humane" execution. "Humane" is what we do for our animals. It would an insult to animals to afford the same to convicted killers!


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2010)

This isn't really a plug for leniancy on criminals, but more like food for thought...

How many people do you want working for the government who'd sign up to do doing this kind of thing? I.e. a slow, brutal, completely pre-meditated process of torture and homicide on fellow citizens. Whats-his-name is on trial in Chicago for that very thing.

As if there aren't enough psych-based rejects during the LEO application process already. 

Know what I mean?

Careful what you wish for. You might get it.


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> This isn't really a plug for leniancy on criminals, but more like food for thought...
> 
> How many people do you want working for the government who'd sign up to do doing this kind of thing? I.e. a slow, brutal, completely pre-meditated process of torture and homicide on fellow citizens.


and how many of you could actually be the one to look that guy in the eye & then do the things you just talked about doing to him? whether or not people who commit murder deserve 'humanity' from their fellow humans may be a subjective question, but i know i was raised to the saying "two wrongs don't make a right." i am not opposed to the death penalty, but i am opposed to cruelty, and IMO, if we're going to do that route, then it should be carried out in a way that allows us to feel slightly better about ourselves than the murderer should.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

People should look up the stats on just how many people are on death row, but then some evidence comes foward which proves their innocent. Are people happy for 15% of the people being executed being wrongly convicted so you can kill the other 85%? And then who pays the piper for the "murder" of those 15% of innocent people? I guess they were just shit out of luck. 
And I hate to say it but countries that have executions (ie USA) have far higher rates of murder and crime than places that dont. 
If some dude killed someone I cared about and I knew they did it, I would love nothing better than putting a bullet in the back of their heads. But there is problems with the death penality.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2010)

> And I hate to say it but countries that have executions (ie USA) have far higher rates of murder and crime than places that dont.


For one thing, not always. i.e. Singapore.

Or heck, Illinois (my state) doesn't have the death penatly, yet Chicago is still kicking ass and taking names in the homicide department compared to other states.

But...though it's currently beyond the scope of things to explain, the demographic responsible for most U.S. homicides is very, very narrow (in terms of geography, culture, class). Dry numbers are misleading. You say American murder rates are high. For someone who knows better, they'd recognize that _Chicago's or LA's _rate is high...and _more specifically_,_ a handful of neighorhoods with very specific and contextual issues within those cities._

If you discount that narrow geographically isolated demographic, the murder rate looks exactly like western europe.

That drives libtards crazy....that 99% of "Americans" aren't actually more violent than anyone else. In some ways, actually less so.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Steven Lepic said:


> For one thing, not always. i.e. Singapore.
> 
> Or heck, Illinois (my state) doesn't have the death penatly, yet Chicago is still kicking ass and taking names in the homicide department compared to other states.
> 
> ...


So it shows that the death penalty has no effect on bad crimes. If someones gonna be a Ted Bundy, they are gonna be. And if a gangbanger wants to shoot some rounds off into someone elses house to impress people hes gonna do. And crimes of passion, nothing is a deterant for them.
I dont trust my Governement to spend my taxes properly, I dont trust my Governemnt to make the trains run on time. I dont even trust my Government to fix the roads. Im then not gonna trust them to convict and execute people on my behalf. It has nothing to do with being liberal, I wouldnt vote green ever. If the system was 100% correct and everyone was 100% guilty, then I have a different view. But the system is far from 100% correct. I guess its okay, so long as we nor someone we know is one of those innocent people whos gonna be executed.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2010)

Nobody cares that the death penalty doesn't reduce crime.

It's a cathartic thing.

I'm indfiferent to the matter. Locked up forever, or killed. Whatever. Just keep them away from society.


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## Robert E Lee (Dec 16, 2009)

The death penalty may not reduce crime as a whole, but the guy in Utah wont be commiting any more...Im also amazed at the % that people post to make a point. I dont remember any studies that say that 15 % of people on death row have later been proven innocent. I realize it does happen but would be suprised if it was 15 out of every hundred on death row.But I could be wrong.
As far as the question of how many could or would be willing to carry out the task, I for one would have no problem pulling the trigger or tying to the tree. I have no compassion or sympathy for these animals.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I really wish they would shoot them all like this. This is way cheaper than the other methods. I think the cost we pay to keep death rowe inmates alive is crazy.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

If find it very interesting that so many of those that believe that government can't do very much right, would then believe that government should have the power to kill them if the government sees fit.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Robert E Lee said:


> The death penalty may not reduce crime as a whole, but the guy in Utah wont be commiting any more...Im also amazed at the % that people post to make a point. I dont remember any studies that say that 15 % of people on death row have later been proven innocent. .


We can't find out the true numbers because the courts have said that you have no right to a DNA test. In fact if the prosecution has done a DNA test, and it is not a match to the accused, they are under no obligation to disclose that. 

That means that if you are too poor to afford your own DNA testing or detectives (like OJ) you're screwed. But I guess that's one way to get rid of the poor.:razz:


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> For one thing, not always. i.e. Singapore.
> 
> Or heck, Illinois (my state) doesn't have the death penatly, yet Chicago is still kicking ass and taking names in the homicide department compared to other states.
> 
> ...


If you isolate certain areas and people the crime rate falls in Europe too. It goes both ways. But the fact of the matter is that we can't discount certain people or places. It's all the USA. 

What you are saying reminds of the guy that trials his schutzhund dog, gets 220pts and then tells you "I would have had 300pts but the dog didn't retrieve, run the blinds or indicate the articles. :lol:


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2010)

I can discount whatever I want, if it makes sense to do so.

If you think the average applies in such a way as to spread out evenly across the land and taint everyone, and draw conclusions that way, that's dumb. By that I mean, for the purposes of drawing certain broad conclusions.

Is it fair to average in the crime rate of Lithuaniaand Russia for the purpose of tainting the rest of Europe? No. I could be silly and say: "Haha! That's Europe too." Well..._sort of._ Kinda. It's the kind of thing which requires an asterick, and everyone knows it. I would think.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> I can discount whatever I want, if it makes sense to do so.


If it makes sense? I think it's more to fit your narrative. 

You simply can't talk about a countries statistics then leave out vast portions of it's population. We have politicians going around doing the same thing, declaring certain portions of the country "real Americans, and I'm sick of that bullshit. We are one country.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

We had an example in Australia where it became obvious that our legal/police investigations system was not to be trusted.
There was the case of a young girl called Nataha Ryan who went missing at around 13 years of age. Five years later after a tip off she was found hiding in the cupboard of her boyfriend. She had ran away from home and lived hidden away with her boyfriend and actually hid in his cupboard for five years when anyone came over his house. It was mutal and there was a big who ha about what she should be charged with.
What was also reported was that when she was found there was actually a guy on trial for her abduction and murder. Now as the cops here would know, police dont take things to court unless they think they have a good case with a good chance of winning.
Well they cancelled the case once the girl was found, but there was NO WAY the police had ANY evidence that he had abducted her and killed her. None, he didnt do it. He hadnt touched her, or even had contact with her. Yet, the police managed to come up with a heap of evidence to show how he had killed her.
Now how did they get this evidence? Considering it couldnt have been real factual evidence? Was it manipulated? Falsified? 
There was no inquiry into this case.
This guy was up for 25-30 years hard time, and if he was in some states in the USA the death penalty.
That is just how easy it is to find yourself in a world of shit without doing anything.
If they have video evidence of a murder, the guy keeps body parts in his fridge like Dahmer did, well yeah, 100% hes up for execution.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

I hope all you ,hang em high people,dont have kids or family who may ever commit a crime.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2010)

Christopher Smith said:


> If it makes sense? I think it's more to fit your narrative.
> 
> You simply can't talk about a countries statistics then leave out vast portions of it's population. We have politicians going around doing the same thing, declaring certain portions of the country "real Americans, and I'm sick of that bullshit. We are one country.


Yes, if it makes sense. Variables are played-with all the time when it comes to these fields of study (anything with statistics, essentially).

That's why there are different kinds of averages i.e. mean, median, mode, range.

Freakish departures from the norm need to be dealt with appropriately...and I mean in terms of their analysis.

It's pretty enlightening to see what happens when you discount this-or-that, or look a bit deeper than the "mean" of things. Trends tend to pop up one wouldn't have otherwise seen.

It isn't a question of who a "real" american it is, it's a simple question of which americans we're talking about...and where.

Kinda silly to say there's a staggering rate of rape in the Nunavut, but then think twice about your trip to Niagra Falls...cuz hey...it's all Canada.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2010)

> We have politicians going around doing the same thing, declaring certain portions of the country "real Americans, and I'm sick of that bullshit. *We are one country.*


And that's just as political as what you're calling divisive.

That's a feel-good political creed, which admittedly has probably done way more good than harm...but it's still simplistic.

I mean, don't we all hate it when silly laws are passed because a few goofballs do something dumb?

Wouldn't it be helpful to know who's doing what and where before all 300 million of us are subjected to yet another law? I'm NOT saying to selectively enforce a law, but really think about the cost benefit of saving population X from itself before yet another law is passed for everyone's supposed benefit.

Anthropology, sociology, pscyhology...very, very useful. Before anything it just starts with observation. 

In fact, I can think of a few big studies which, despite being almost rote descriptions of simple observation of behavior, really set people off the deep end. People really hate impartial descriptions sometimes. It can be embarassing. And forget about trying to draw conclusions from it! Scary stuff. 

Edit: Fyi, I don't know where I'm going with any of this...in case your time is limited. 8-[

Right, death penalty. Um... If a lifer wants assisted suicide, fine. If an inmate can't even do his time without killing or raping other inmates, fine...kill him. Killing people for what they do on the outside. MMM...probably not. I think I'd still err on the side of caution there.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> I really wish they would shoot them all like this. This is way cheaper than the other methods. I think the cost we pay to keep death rowe inmates alive is crazy.


seriously. what are 30-30 rounds like .85cents a pop for factory loaded primo aummuntion? i was reading somewhere (i'll try and dig up the link) that with all the medical monitoring, chemicals, and equipment a lethal injection can cost over 2k depending on where it is done and the exact chemcicals they use. 

i think its kind of foolish though that they load one rifle with a blank...anybody whose done any amount of shooting is going to be able to the feel the difference b/w a blank and hot round. just load em all up with real rounds...people volunteered for the firing squad anyway so its not like they are going to be heartbroken that they fired the live rounds.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I am pro-capitol punishment. Having said that, what amazes me the most is the ease at which people talk about taking a human life.

DFrost


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm one of those tentatively pro-capital punishment. It's one of those things where I would want to be absolutely sure, and I am poignantly aware of at least some of the cases where people have been tried, convicted, executed, and then whoops! Found innocent after-the-fact. How much are those lives worth?

As for the manner, I would argue for the quickest, most humane, efficient manner possible. First, I'm Christian, so I believe the ultimate judgment resides with God. Small consolation, but if I am right about the whole afterlife thing and they're judged poorly nothing we can do will be a shadow to their punishment. If i am right about the whole afterlife biz and they are unfairly killed but still in good standing with God, I suppose you could make the argument they still get an eternity of Heaven but it still seems kind of a sorry consolation prize that we just tortured the guy to death. If I'm wrong, well, I suppose we've just got to trust the laws set in place.

The reasons I'm against old school Medieval torture type stuff (aside from my faith, which I'm not going to inflict on the general populace) are largely based around the fact that I take no solace in the eye-for-an-eye punishment. It will not correct the mistakes made. There are also inevitably going to be times where mistakes are made, it seems a statistical inevitability even WITH DNA, science, eye witnesses, video, etc., etc., it's bound to happen. Despite all of that, I think there is something to Steven Lepic's point about how to do actual horrible torturous killings you have to actually kind of advocate people who are able to do that without it effecting them, which if you think it out at least could be kind of chilling, or charge people with it who over time are either going to be emotionally effected by it or just become colder, harder people.

I just view it as a clinical issue. People that actually do these horrible, horrible things (ala. Jeffrey Dahmer, Saddam, Bin Laden, Charles Manson, the BTK killer, a run-of-the-mill murderer/rapist who has insurmountable evidence against them with no appeals, etc.) that you would never, ever let out, should just be removed. Don't make it a big production, don't let them turn a long trip on death row into a a platform to be a quasi-celebrity, don't make them a martyr, don't give their followers a reason to "act in kind" against others (thinking of Al Qaeda-types), just remove them, keep them from doing it again or inspiring anybody, and be done with it. I personally would not view the taking of a human life lightly, think capital punishment should be handed out with great reservation and care, however I DO view it as justifiable in some cases so think it should just be done as quickly and efficiently as possible and then let the survivors who have been directly or indirectly effected by the criminal and their crimes have closure and move on with their lives as quickly as possible. But that's just me.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey Chris, about the blanks . . .


chris haynie said:


> i think its kind of foolish though that they load one rifle with a blank...anybody whose done any amount of shooting is going to be able to the feel the difference b/w a blank and hot round. just load em all up with real rounds...people volunteered for the firing squad anyway so its not like they are going to be heartbroken that they fired the live rounds.


I've read that they are not just blanks, they apparently feel the same but, somehow, don't work:

"On the day of the execution, four of the five were armed with live rounds. The fifth received an "ineffective" round that, unlike a blank, delivers the same recoil as a live round. No one knew who had the ineffective round."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/09/utah.firing.squad/index.html?hpt=C2

Interesting article at the above link by the way. I thought there was a psychological aspect of the "ineffective" round. Even under justifiable situations, I'm pretty sure killing somebody takes its toll for most, although the guy in the article seemed to have found a pretty good perspective about it. I could see how it would get to people though.

-Cheers


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Good, bastard deserved it. Then again, I'm probably biased due to the fact that I had a grandfather I never met because of two murderous assholes...that the state of Arizona executed! Granted, they're both dead and will never harm another family the way they've done mine and Mr. Dempsey's family, but they got out of it easy, lethal injection.

One thing I will say is that they shouldn't sit on death row for a long time. One of my grandfather's murderers sat on death row for over 20 years, he nearly got a stay of execution because he ended up having alzheimers by the time they went to execute him...what a crock, he should have been executed with his brother, not like 20+ years later.

I think a firing squad is "humane".I've put more than one animal out of it's misery with a bullet to the head and I don't think they suffered.


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