# ok, so it's not a torn ACL...



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

it's bad hips that showed up after he got "bumped" by a pick-up (but that's another story). he's 15 mo old, i saw the x-rays and was not impressed with his hip structure either, vet said to put him on gluco/chondritin, and that he'd be a good candidate for complete hip replacement down the line. this guy knows his stuff, i was impressed, and i believe him.
so, other than light duty for 6 wks, the gluco/chondritin, you guys have any other suggestions? i could take him to the river to swim, but it's the Missouri and it has a rep for bad undertows--i'm scared he'll get out too far, get tired and away he goes...

also, would it be advisable to re-xray him at 24 months (i forgot to ask the vet, and he's long-distance, and yes, i'm cheap--but not easy)? seems like i read on leerburg that the hip can tighten up some after adolescence (?), or that the sedative can affect the pic too...I just don't want him to have bad hips this young!!!

anyway, tips or links to threads that address this would be appreciated. :-&


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Call the breeder and get a new dog????


----------



## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

I dont have any tips for you (sorry! ) But wanted to say I am sorry to hear about your dog. Im sure there are other places you could swim him. What about a doggy life vest and a long line?


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

ann freier said:


> it's bad hips that showed up after he got "bumped" by a pick-up (but that's another story). he's 15 mo old, i saw the x-rays and was not impressed with his hip structure either, vet said to put him on gluco/chondritin, and that he'd be a good candidate for complete hip replacement down the line. this guy knows his stuff, i was impressed, and i believe him.
> so, other than light duty for 6 wks, the gluco/chondritin, you guys have any other suggestions? i could take him to the river to swim, but it's the Missouri and it has a rep for bad undertows--i'm scared he'll get out too far, get tired and away he goes...
> 
> also, would it be advisable to re-xray him at 24 months (i forgot to ask the vet, and he's long-distance, and yes, i'm cheap--but not easy)? seems like i read on leerburg that the hip can tighten up some after adolescence (?), or that the sedative can affect the pic too...I just don't want him to have bad hips this young!!!
> ...



You know about weight management, right? And smooth exercise? And fish oil with vitamin E (anti-inflammatory)?

Can you get access to a pool?

Exactly what did the x-rays show? Are there OA changes? What was the diagnosis?

Is he showing lameness or pain or anything? What symptoms?


----------



## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

usually breeders have health guaranties take him back get a new one


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

steve gossmeyer said:


> usually breeders have health guaranties take him back get a new one


I was assuming this was not an option.

The accident with the pickup was not a factor? Just the reason the x-rays were done?


----------



## steve gossmeyer (Jan 9, 2007)

but the x rays shown that the dogs hips were bad before the accidnent correct? if not then no suggestion here but if so take him back


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

first, his breeder's a crook so taking him back (even tho there is a hip guarantee in the contract) isn't an option. live and learn...

next, the xrays were done to determine if his lameness was due to a torn ACL fr accident or hip issues; the vet suspected hip after initial exam. so, on the xrays done just 10 d after the accident, he showed me a spot on the socket when he's already laying down calcium (OA). i have the impression that it was due to the hip being knocked around, but maybe not. at any rate, that's what i have to deal with. yeah-his hips had to be bad b/f the accident.

so, he is on vit E/salmon oil already; his weight is perfect (if i'm good at anything it's keeping animals in good condition); he is minimally lame at this point, took him off metacam actually to try and remind him his hip hurts so he won't over-do.

what's "smooth excercise" Connie? one of my challenges at this point is keeping enough energy burned off to keep him quiet.....


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Smooth means non-jarring, such as loping on grass, swimming, passive exercise, treadmill, and there are others which I will coax my aged brain to remember.

If he is showing OA changes already, I would absolutely start glucosamine-chondroitin, and/or a glucosamine relative.

Even though the jury is still out a little bit on both, there is so much anecdotal evidence for gluscosamine and its relatives, and I've used it often enough with obvious success in senior dogs, that I recommend it whole-heartedly. (Chondroitin, I'm not sure about, but I've never seen any evidence for a down-side, and some think it helps synergistically, so why not.)

I buy the caps so I can open and sprinkle. (You are already doing this with another dog, right?)

There are several other related remedies, all covered in a thread last year that I'll dig up.

Also, in a situation where you want the Omega 3s to be therapeutic, I'd vote for a gram of fish oil for every ten pounds of dog weight.

That's about 1.5 teaspoons a day for a 70-pound dog.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

This link
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=911
is a good overview of home treatment.

Then on the bottom, click on "part three" 
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&siteid=12&acatid=361&aid=912
for a recap of the available supplements/meds. They include and discuss the proven meds and the "we don't know" meds. It's a good page, even if it has ads. I think it's good enough and up-to-date enough to print it out and refer to it if the vet suggests something (or fails to).

Here's their exercise paragraph (a good one): 
Exercise is the next important step. Exercise that provides for good range of motion and muscle building and limits wear and tear on the joints is the best. Leash walking, swimming, walking on treadmills, slow jogging, and going up and down stairs are excellent low-impact exercises. An exercise program should be individualized for each dog based on the severity of the osteoarthritis, weight, and condition of the dog. In general, too little exercise can be more detrimental than too much; however, the wrong type of exercise can cause harm. While Frisbee is very enjoyable and fun for the dog, it is very hard on a dog's joints. Remember, it is important to exercise daily. Only exercising on weekends, for instance, may cause more harm than good if the animal is sore for the rest of the week and reluctant to move at all. Warming the muscles prior to exercise and following exercise with a "warm-down" period are beneficial. Consult with your veterinarian regarding an exercise program appropriate for your dog. END QUOTE


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is this crooks name?? Why wouldn't it be an option??? The biggest pain in the ass anyone can be to a breeder is to call them on their shit and send the dog back. Now they have to deal with the displastic dog.

Not to rant all over you,[-X but this is how the crooks stay in business. Americans do not want to see fluffy go to a bad situation. Screw the sentimental shit, and get a replacement pup. **** that guy.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What is this crooks name?? ... this is how the crooks stay in business.


That's a really good point.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

oh heavens, i thought i'd plastered it on here too last year when i found out that his guaranteed registration was no good either....
it's mike madrone, vom haelden kennels in maine. i did send him an email about the hips just to see if i could get a response; usually he responds by saying i'm crazy , nothing so far though....and i wouldn't get a replacement from HIM for anything in the world.

it's ok though-in a couple years when i have the $$, i'm gonna get a pup out of Mike's bitch pup and someone, or out of Luna and someone, or something...meanwhile, brix stays here cause i'm sentimental and i made a commitment to him when i bought him.

Connie--thanks for the links, i'm off to explore them now.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

oh--i mean OUR mike s....NOT mike M


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Ann: I understand how you feel. I've heard that walking in high water is also a good form of exercise. I'm really sorry for what you are going through. One other thing I would suggest is if it looks like you will be having to replace a hip in the future, it's very costly. If money is an issue, start putting some aside for it now.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

oh yeah susan--i traded in a $500 ACL repair for a total hip replacement at $3000/per.... but, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
meanwhile, i guess bitework's out at least for a while, so we'll just keep on tracking and OB. who knows, i may just be able to get an FH on him in spite of it all!


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

That is a great attitude to have. I hope you get an FH2 with him.


----------



## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

Best of luck with him Ann. He's lucky to have you.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I also really like ester C as well. My old boy Buck's hips aren't great, but as long as I keep him up with about 2000 mg a day, he doesn't need glucosamine and he will lope around pretty well. The ester C seems to work better from what I've heard anecdotally. Easier on the tummy too.


----------



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

evidently better me than that heartless, harda$$ JEFF!! (i do still love ya jeff--you remind me SO MUCH of my jar-head ex and his brother).

at any rate, with his genetics (let's not talk about handlers here, ok??)--he should easily be able to do the FH2. he's SUCH a good boy, his only limitations are mine....

i'm just not sure about the ester C; mostly b/c i have a financial limit. i too have heard it's "good", but for now i think i'll let someone else prove it's worth. i would just feed him oranges (my other 2 dogs would eat 'em), but he's WAY too picky.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Actually, the ester C is cheaper than glucosamine, if I recall. Around $10-15ish or so for a real big bottle from Sam's Club. I also take them when I feel a cold or something coming on. If you ever have to foster a dog or hear of someone who has a dog with kennel cough, get them on ester C for a few days and it shortens the cold. At least half my foster dogs from the local shelter have kennel cough and it lessens the symptoms big time.


----------

