# Marine Corps bans pit bulls, Rottweilers at Camp Pendleton, other bases



## Debbie Skinner

Article Links: LA Times http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/my-entry.html 

Sign on San Diego: http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/oct/08/marine-policy-bans-certain-dogs-bases/?uniontrib


----------



## Guest

Debbie Skinner said:


> Article Links: LA Times http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/my-entry.html
> 
> Sign on San Diego: http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/oct/08/marine-policy-bans-certain-dogs-bases/?uniontrib


 
What is this society coming to.......Military banning dogs.....hmmm I wonder who will make these evaulations on the current owners of these said dogs and their temperments.....sounds scary....and SAD! :-(


----------



## Guest

Debbie Skinner said:


> Article Links: LA Times http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/my-entry.html
> 
> Sign on San Diego: http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/oct/08/marine-policy-bans-certain-dogs-bases/?uniontrib


 
Another knee-jerk reaction to an isolated incident or very few cases.....that are more the owners fault than the animal.....

Hate to admit it, but very typical of the government now and military...


----------



## Debbie Skinner

Also, I caught the promo for the news a few nights ago and Los Angeles wants to ban cat "declawing". The city has manditory spay/neuter of pets though! As if a declaw is more invasive than a spay. The government is always in our business! Soon what can we own and what can we do? Less and less freedom.


----------



## Michael Santana

Jody Butler said:


> Another knee-jerk reaction to an isolated incident or very few cases.....that are more the owners fault than the animal.....
> 
> Hate to admit it, but very typical of the government now and military...


Very true.. It seems like all you need is one incident to change regs, and its usually for the worst.


----------



## David Ruby

The branch of Devil Dogs and a Bulldog for a mascot is banning the APBT (a breed of some historical military significance) and the Rottweiler? Oh, that's just perfect. Brilliant.

-Cheers


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff

Wow.

The commandant's stance on this is really surprising to me. 

Having served in the Corps a healthy number of years, this strikes me very much as the "new Marine Corps", with undecorated Marines serving as four star generals, who are more interested in being vocal about don't ask don't tell and restraining dog breeds than getting to the root of the problem.

Next will be Shepherds, Presa Canarios, and soon enough, Dutchies and Malis. Where will it end? 

Hopefully this general's tenure will be short, specially given how much against the current administration's policies he seems to be. I don't think I ever served under General Conway at all, and it strikes me as though there are a good number of harder, stronger, smarter Marines more apt to be qualified for the job.


----------



## Anna Kasho

Debbie Skinner said:


> Also, I caught the promo for the news a few nights ago and Los Angeles wants to ban cat "declawing". The city has manditory spay/neuter of pets though! As if a declaw is more invasive than a spay. The government is always in our business! Soon what can we own and what can we do? Less and less freedom.


Animal Rights...

Has nothing to do with benifitting animals, or even rational logical thought, and this idiocy is created by the misguided or inexperienced who believe everyone else should be made to conform to their ideology "for their own good". 

Sucks to be living in La...


----------



## Christopher Smith

Anna Kasho said:


> Sucks to be living in La...


You wish!:mrgreen:


----------



## Meng Xiong

Anna Kasho said:


> Animal Rights...
> 
> Has nothing to do with benifitting animals, or even rational logical thought, and this idiocy is created by the misguided or inexperienced who believe everyone else should be made to conform to their ideology "for their own good".
> 
> Sucks to be living in La...


WERD!


The pussification of America continues...


----------



## Guest

Anna Kasho said:


> Animal Rights...
> 
> Has nothing to do with benifitting animals, or even rational logical thought, and this idiocy is created by the misguided or inexperienced who believe everyone else should be made to conform to their ideology "for their own good".
> 
> Sucks to be living in La...


 
If this is a Military Base and in LA, it wouldn't suprise me if it was every Military Base in the future......................................


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Meng Xiong said:


> WERD!
> 
> 
> The pussification of America continues...


"Pussification" if ya don't mind I'll borrow that one.


----------



## Jim Domenico

This may sound like some kind of crackpot theory, but they did the same in Australia when the inception of BSL banning Pit Bulls nation wide with the exception of previous owners (mandatory spay/nueter for existing non breeding pets) and licensed kennels who relied on the breed for making a living.

Basically, they tried to pass the BSL through a referendum vote, it failed, people voted against it. They then enforced it at every military base in the country even though there was only like 1 - 2 attacks from them ever reported in the history of the nation on military grounds - spin doctored some bullshit research paper showing how their nationwide ban on military grounds decreased the attacks by 200% and got the REAL nationwide ban imposed through Senate without the general public ever having a say on the matter "for their own good."

Now if memory serves me correctly, they tried banning them in Cali not so long ago (05/06) and failed... *taps nose* funny how coincidental the motions of the two respective governments are on the same issue.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

BSL people are together, have a goal, and are consistent. Something dogsport people need to work on.


----------



## James Downey

This is pretty Typical of Military thinking. They are not going to debate if the dogs are actually a threat, or who's a fault...and think of any other sort of remedy that will appease people. It's not that they are Pussifing the military. The military views this type of stuff as a potential threat. So just get rid of it. That's it case closed, tommrrow if there was incling of indication that red shampoo was more harmful than blue...they would ban it. The military is not interested in arguing if it is actually a threat. They just do not want Marines hurt which effects operational readiness...nor do they want Civilians who live/work there collecting a check from the goverment. Also, Any Commanding Officer running a base does not have the time nor the inclination to dispute if it's right or wrong. They simply see a potential problem and eliminate it. 

Just like liberty....E-4 and below living on some bases have a curfew of usually 2200 or 2400. Is it right? are all e-4 and below trouble makers...probably not. But they will just make a blanket policy so as to eliminate any potential problems.


----------



## Steven Stroupes

The dogs that I am least likely to walk up on are the Mali/Dutchies. But you never see them on Banned Breed Lists (not that I want them to be). I think that it just goes to show that the people who are making these decisions are going on nothing more than media hype. I wish that people would use their heads and address the real problem - bad owners.


----------



## Meng Xiong

James Downey said:


> This is pretty Typical of Military thinking. They are not going to debate if the dogs are actually a threat, or who's a fault...and think of any other sort of remedy that will appease people. It's not that they are Pussifing the military. The military views this type of stuff as a potential threat. So just get rid of it. That's it case closed, tommrrow if there was incling of indication that red shampoo was more harmful than blue...they would ban it. The military is not interested in arguing if it is actually a threat. They just do not want Marines hurt which effects operational readiness...nor do they want Civilians who live/work there collecting a check from the goverment. Also, Any Commanding Officer running a base does not have the time nor the inclination to dispute if it's right or wrong. They simply see a potential problem and eliminate it.
> 
> Just like liberty....E-4 and below living on some bases have a curfew of usually 2200 or 2400. Is it right? are all e-4 and below trouble makers...probably not. But they will just make a blanket policy so as to eliminate any potential problems.


They should just ban all dogs, period.


----------



## Erin Suggett

Sad {and ironic} how *the* _*most decorated war dog in history *_is simply forgotten in all of this.










*Sgt. Stubby* decorated in medals during his WWI service.


----------



## David Ruby

Erin Suggett said:


> Sad {and ironic} how *the* _*most decorated war dog in history *_is simply forgotten in all of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sgt. Stubby* decorated in medals during his WWI service.


Or how BSL proponents will twist this to mean that even Marines can't handle Pit Bull Terriers and Rottweilers (and "Pitbull-type" dogs and anything that remotely falls under whatever loose connection they can come up with), thus reasoning that if _Marines_ can't handle them nobody should. Banning them was stupid, but if they're going to ban anything, ban all dogs. Period. At least you don't give ammunition against specific breeds because one nutter (dog a/o handler) ended up on a military base (and according to the second article linked, a stray, maybe a Pit Bull Terrier mix or not even an APBT but some look-alike breed for all we know) and bit a kid. Now, the propaganda essentially writes itself.

-Cheers


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Steven Stroupes said:


> The dogs that I am least likely to walk up on are the Mali/Dutchies. But you never see them on Banned Breed Lists


Unfortunately the Malinois has made it onto a number of breed ban lists already. I'd have to look but I think I've seen the Dutchie on different lists also, but not in as high of numbers. Sometimes the Malinois is listed on it's own, other times it's lumped in with the other Belgian Shepherds.

I am 100% against banning, but a friend works in Animal Control on Camp Pendleton and they do have a problem with the breeds they are banning. From what she has told me, a lot of the incidences just don't make it into the media. Their shelter is a typical one, overrun with certain breeds and mixes of, but they also get called out for loose dogs, dog fights (not people fighting them but loose dogs fighting) and dog bites for the banned breeds on a regular basis. 

She also told me current dogs will be grandfathered in, but new dogs won't be allowed. I think requiring the dogs to pass a CGC or other basic temperament/obedience test would have been a better idea. Not that it gaurantees the dog will never be a problem, but it does show the owner has at least some basic responsibility for the dog to have taken the time to train it and get it tested.

Hopefully this won't be a launching board for more BSL in the area, and maybe once the numbers of certain breeds go down, but the number of issues stays the same (the idiot owners won't change, just the breed they own) the military will realize it wasn't a good idea and reverse the decision.


----------



## Matt Grosch

So you cant own a gun or the type of dog you want.................


----------



## Colin Chin

Honestly, is APBT a monster dog after all ? I would think they have superb temperament around human beings. What's the rationale behind all this ban and BSL ? Seen a couple of them, they all behave very well. No signs or incidents of mauling children or adults per se. Just don't get it with all those hypes there about this breed.

Colin


----------



## Guest

since when do we live in a free country?


----------



## Debbie Skinner

I'll have to ask my friend in Belgium about breed bans there and how they have progressed. However, over a year ago he was concerned that one province (I think that's the term for "county" there) was trying to ban Malinois! Banning Malinois in Belgium! What has the world come too! I haven't followed up to see if the Malinois ban is in effect in some parts of Belgium. Anyone know?

He said in the area that he lives there has been a law for a couple years now that a dog over "so many centimeters tall" (medium-large dogs) had to be on leashes if not on your own property. How can a person train and exercise their working dogs then? That would restrict them to their own small yard or the training field. Most people have very small yards in Belgium and train in "green" areas and fields for their retrieves, bite work, etc. with 1-2 friends outside of club times.

The pitbulls and "other dangerous" breeds have been banned for sometime and there is a list I know in France of dogs that must be muzzled in public. I think the countries in the "European Community" developed these laws as well. 

I remember years ago...I think around 1998-2000 at the La Mans Selectif trial (French Ring) my friend was judging and I was there watching as I was on a dog buying trip at the time. I remember that Mr. Secretain was competing with Highlander so that kind of dates it. I saw a spectator with his pet Rottweiler and it was muzzled as that was the law even then. I thought what a stupid law as the guy sat with his muzzled Rottie watching the Malinois bite on the field. 

None of these laws make a bit of sense. They just take freedoms away and breakdown the historical relationship we have with dogs by causing misinformed fear.


----------



## Rachel Schumacher

Debbie, as far as I know the Malinois has been added to the list of "dangerous" dogs in Belgium.Tho I don't know what that means when one ones Mals in Belgium. In the Italian speaking part of Switzerland the Malinois belongs to the group of "dangerous fighting dogs", meaning I would have to walk each of my dogs separately and only on a leash plus paying a hefty fee if I stay more than 2 weeks per year in this part ](*,)
Gosh what's wrong with western countries


----------



## Debbie Skinner

What are the most dog friendly (less laws) countries? I need a Plan B if it gets too ridiculous here in the USA! :idea:


----------



## Jim Domenico

The media see any type of Bully dog, and call it a Pitbull - thats another problem and why they get so much bad hype. ANY Bully type dog, takes a chunk outta someone - PITBULL ATTACK!... when in reality, the actual number of true APBT's that have attacked people, is miniscule, its usually some dumb shit gangbangers mutt.

Example:









NOT A PITBULL









NOT A PITBULL









STILL NOT A PITBULL

This is a freaking APBT...









Line up 1000 media goons and get a selection of photos of bully dogs, and ask them what their headline would be if they saw any of them attack, or even just ask them to tell you what kinda dog they are guaran-f**king-teed - they'd be more likely to label the first 3 piece of shit mutts as APBT's than the 4th which is a REAL APBT.

Ignorance drives me up the wall...


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen

Couple of cooks at the nearby IHOP pulled up to get smokes and had an AB, a pit, and a aussie something mix in the car, all perfectly happy to be out for a ride.

Ooooooooooooooooo dangerous. 

Too bad we cannot figure a way to get rid of the owners that create the problems.


----------



## Guest

Too bad we cannot figure a way to get rid of the owners that create the problems.[/quote]


NO SHIT!!!! =D>=D>:-k


----------



## Colin Chin

Guess the problem lies in identifying the breed itself ? That's why a blanket rule was imposed to just ban everyone of them that look a like ?

Colin


----------



## Debbie Skinner

I was just reading an article on the Cat Declawing Ban that was passed in some cities in SoCal 

However, I found this sliver of good news! _This is good news for California. __My guess is that additional cities could pass similar bans in the coming weeks. *At immediate issue is a California bill, SB 762, which becomes law on January 1, 2010. The law prevents CA cities from restricting procedures performed by veterinarians. 
*
Link to entire Cat Declaw article: http://news.discovery.com/animals/california-cities-ban-cat-declawing.html 
Cities include: __West Hollywood was the first, I believe, followed by Beverly Hills, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Santa Monica and now Berkeley. 
_It's bad news that a bunch of cities are trying to pass stupid laws before January 1, 2010 regarding what owners and vets can have done medically with their pets (ear cropping among them). However, it looks like that California will put an end to this as of Jan 1st!

I'm trying to find out more on SB 762. I found this: 
http://cssrc.us/web/4/news.aspx?id=6091&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
_“My measure stands for consumer freedom and freedom of choice,” said Senator Aanestad. “Without legislation that guarantees a uniform statewide governance of licensed professions in the healing arts, those standards will be scrambled and unintelligible for most consumers. It will result in a system where licensed professionals will find themselves prohibited from performing a service in one county that the same licensed professional may perform in the next county over.
_


----------

