# Civil bitework on passive person in couch, no agitation at all



## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Hi,

No agitation at all (before, during attack), person not moving.
This is the kind of work you either love or just don't like.
Anyhow, wanted to share.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_jNiT2Aq-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOP1pbUF4YA

Regards, Jo


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

nm - wrong thread

Nice video!


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

thanks Chris ;-)


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

If someone doesnt like it it's usually because their dog wont do passive, nice work jo.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Very nice! No wonder she got pissed when you made her out, she probably felt cheated that the decoy didn't scream and fight back...


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Many thanks Drew, good to hear you appreciate.
Anna, we were thinking the same thing ;-)

regards, Jo


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## Tiffany Compton (Oct 7, 2009)

Nice video, we are beginning to do passive work on our dogs in group..


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Hi Tiffany,
cool ; how's the training going? What kind of equipment / suit do you use please? Do you train in small groups?

Regards, Jo


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Great video... as always Jo.

Your innovative training methods and enthusiasm are very inspiring. 

Keep up the good work and the videos mate.

regards,
Gary


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Thanks for that Gary.
It's motivating for us to read this.

You too, keep up the good work with Xena!

Regards, Jo


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Kinda funny, I always wonder how stupid dogs are. It is the same guy that is always the decoy, and while he is not aggitating, it couldn't be more obvious he is padded up.

I do like your videos, don't think that I am asking you to stop, I just find this stuff unimportant. The dog is a nice dog.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

> I just find this stuff unimportant


Jeff, myself I don't react to unimportant stuff.
You have a lot of talk (plenty of posts), still looking fwd. to see your first important video where you prove something with a dog, padded up or not.

Thanks for the comment. Best regards, Jo


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is it that you want to see ?? The dog biting his decoy sitting on a couch ?? I can make a video of his decoy sitting down and he will bite him. 

I have never had to have someone do anything for him to bite them. I do sport, and there is no importance placed on this in the sport.

It takes nothing away from the dog to say that it is unimportant. I think that the dog does a fine job, I just wonder what it shows us. 

I like the video of your dog looking for people. Those are the best to watch.

I have a lot of posts, but I have been here a long time. If you actually engaged in some of the other conversations, I think it would be a lot better than what you do now. That is just me though. I think that you limit yourself to talking about your dogs and little else, which is fine if that is all you want to do.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

> I can make a video of his decoy sitting down and he will bite him.


Ok, same scenario, "padded up". Thanks. There are people who like to see this kind of work.



> It takes nothing away from the dog to say that it is unimportant. I think that the dog does a fine job, I just wonder what it shows us.


Jeff, maybe it shows nothing to you, but it does show something to other people.



> I like the video of your dog looking for people. Those are the best to watch


Thanks for that.



> If you actually engaged in some of the other conversations, I think it would be a lot better than what you do now


Not many people on this forum share the same interest in our type of training. If I have something to say or think I can be of any help, don't worry, I will post or pm.
I could also just start posting what the use of mondio is, how I find schutz "unimportant" etc. but I don't. Despite not being a fan of certain "sports", I don't start doing this.... Too easy.
Or I could put other people's videos on the forum too, but I don't.

Anyhow, I'll limit the acces to new vids to people I know so you don't have to worry anymore & I don't have to spend time defending myself for what I like to do or train.

Best regards, Jo


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

Johan Dekinder said:


> Jeff, myself I don't react to unimportant stuff.
> You have a lot of talk (plenty of posts), still looking fwd. to see your first important video where you prove something with a dog, padded up or not.
> 
> Thanks for the comment. Best regards, Jo


I agree. 

Johan you have shown over and over you have a good decoy, are a good trainer and have good dogs. I like the small Mali.

There are some on this forum who just talk but cannot train. They new members might be fooled by them but experienced members know who they are and choose to ignore. You have nothing to prove to them.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: It takes nothing away from the dog to say that it is unimportant. I think that the dog does a fine job, I just wonder what it shows us.

Jeff, maybe it shows nothing to you, but it does show something to other people.

Like what ?? That was the question. Sorry if you take it so hard when someone asks questions.

Quote: 
Anyhow, I'll limit the acces to new vids to people I know so you don't have to worry anymore & I don't have to spend time defending myself for what I like to do or train.

Kinda like the girl that ran off and took her video off after someone commented on it ?? No one asked you to defend anything, just answer a simple question. WHat was so painful about that ??

I will get that video for you, then maybe you and I can have a conversation about what it is that you like about it..........or not.

I know Deagle is trying to soothe you, but asking a question does not imply you are a bad trainer or decoy or person, or that your dog is good or bad, I like the dog just fine. However, the response does raise a question in my mind to what you think I was saying


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Jeff, you find this stuff unimportant as you said, so I'm not further wasting my time or feel the need to explain the 'like what'.
I've discussed the matter and what it shows us with people who were interested.



> Kinda like the girl that ran off and took her video off after someone commented on it ??


No, kinda like the boy who has other things to do. I can perfectly live with neg. comments if it leads to something instructive, but don't call your reply a "comment"...

Jo


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

<Yawn> What ?? You said something ?? 

I hear crickets. have fun.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2009)

Johan,

You have to understand something about Jeff.

He's Norwegian. The British and Americans understand that continental germanic peoples have long ago bartered away their senses of humor to Odin in exchange for great height and muscular endurance. Granted, this is his attempt at humor and banter, and we can all see how it's going. It usually devolves to homosexual themes and capital letters. But he tries, and that's what counts.

But don't let that distract you from legitimate content in the form of questions.

I'll rephrase what he said in a civilized manner, because I would genuinely like to hear the answers from you. My plead is bona fide ignorance.

Is this a decoy the dog is familiar with? 

If the hidden sleeve has been used before, can't the dog smell it?

If the sleeve has been used before, and if the dog is familiar with the decoy, and since animals are so attuned to small changes in body language (i.e. arm presentation, slight differences in appearance padded arm) doesn't the value of a hidden sleeve progressively diminish the more you use it?

My understanding is that hidden sleeves and muzzles were kind of like tests with a high degree of finality. 

But I don't know. I'm asking.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Steven, hi,


> Is this a decoy the dog is familiar with?


Yes



> If the hidden sleeve has been used before, can't the dog smell it?


It's not a hidden sleeve, it's a leather jacket we used. 

The video wasn't about the civil work, but to check how my dog would do when a person was sitting totally passive, no agitation at all, no shouting, whatever.., and this before and during the bitework. Also to see how she kept biting.



> doesn't the value of a hidden sleeve progressively diminish the more you use it?


A dog that bites civil (or hidden sleeve) once, will most of the time always do so imo & my experience.

Thanks for the interest Steven.

regards, Jo


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2009)

Well, that clarifies things. Thank you.

I'm a big fan of your dog and videos.

I also particularly like his searching.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

No problem Steven.

Thanks , we'll be concentrating mainly on high scents the coming months.

Regards, Jo


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## Curtis McHail (Nov 7, 2009)

Why wouldn't anybody like passive work??? I love it...also perplexes me when people hate tracking! Great work, I really enjoyed watching and if you've read my other posts you know I VALUE that bit of anger she showed!!!!!!


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