# Wibo likes Americans!



## Timothy Stacy

Very embarrassing but I promised! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ12WunSpS4


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## Carmen van de Kamp

and more vids to come 

oh and luckily for Tim no more training before he leaves.........


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## Chris McDonald

That was good, it didn’t look like you had bite paints to me, it looked like you were going to do muzzle work but forgot the muzzle.


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## Timothy Stacy

Chris McDonald said:


> That was good, it didn’t look like you had bite paints to me, it looked like you were going to do muzzle work but forgot the muzzle.


It felt like that too! He did not let go either, he about ripped the pants off me. It took a little while to fully let go and then he stared at me directly in the eye like I've never felt before(no blinking no looking away just a death stare. I think that dog has bad intentions!


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## Guest

Tim has a birthing cry!


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## Selena van Leeuwen

I posted already in the topic "litter Ebro x Mika" that you have met some family members of your puppy :mrgreen:
I can hear myself laughing very loud on the vid  Dick and I find you a brave man to post the vid, you didn;t have to do it, RESPECT!

Tim Martens en Mike Schoonbrood know how you're feeling ;-)


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## Carmen van de Kamp

Timothy Stacy said:


> Very embarrassing but I promised!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ12WunSpS4


he just volunteered by coming to Holland..........


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Chris McDonald said:


> That was good, it didn’t look like you had bite paints to me, it looked like you were going to do muzzle work but forgot the muzzle.


Under the training pants he's wearing thin sleeves with kevlar in it, very close around his legs. You can feel the pressure/intention of the bite, but the canines can't come through. You will be bruised though.

Wibo haven't had a bite for awhile, he enjoyed it very much :mrgreen:


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## Ted Efthymiadis

Timothy Stacy said:


> It felt like that too! He did not let go either, he about ripped the pants off me. It took a little while to fully let go and then he stared at me directly in the eye like I've never felt before(no blinking no looking away just a death stare. I think that dog has bad intentions!


hahahahahha, love those knpv dutchie... I know the stare you speak of.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Carmen van de Kamp said:


> he just volunteered by coming to Holland..........


But did you tell him before he went to the plane ?!?! All those new experiences in Holland, first Queens day, than seeing you guys train (and see me running after a 15 mo old, looking like a whale) AND have some civil bites (and not from weak biting dogs..)

Selena

@ Tim: I really enjoy having you on the club: your curiosity, your questions, our talk, respectful exchange of experiences and your open-minded attitude.

Dick


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## Nicole Stark

LOL, that was funny but whew I bet it HURT. You reminded me of Steve-O a bit there . How's the leg doing? BTW, Selena/Dick, he is a beautiful dog. I love his attitude.


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## Christopher Jones

Haha, cool clip. It looked like they just put an old IPO sleeve cover around your leg and said it would be fine. 
Me thinks the Dutch do seem to get a little too much fun from sending their dogs in on Americans....I could be wrong tho.....


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## Anna Kasho

You are a brave guy, Tim.  I think Wibo was having too much fun to let go... WOW!


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## Timothy Stacy

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> But did you tell him before he went to the plane ?!?! All those new experiences in Holland, first Queens day, than seeing you guys train (and see me running after a 15 mo old, looking like a whale) AND have some civil bites (and not from weak biting dogs..)
> 
> Selena
> 
> @ Tim: I really enjoy having you on the club: your curiosity, your questions, our talk, respectful exchange of experiences and your open-minded attitude.
> 
> Dick


Dick, without seeing first hand it is hard to describe as you often say. Your explanations along with Selena's were worth more than the plane ticket. I can tell you that I do know that not many people could handle a dog like Wibo after seeing him and hearing you were not his first trainer, I know I could not and would not try it! To say the least I was very intimidated by him, especially after!!!!!!!!!!
A true testament to your experience and knowledge! Thank you for taking time to talk to me and letting me be a part of everything! You guys made me very comfortable!
Selena, Queens day??? I'm still recovering!
For you guys putting Wibo on me, I think you should go a few more weeks before the baby comes !!!


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## Guest

That made my whole freakin week! Looks like you're bringing home some little dragons babies. =D>


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## Timothy Stacy

Anna Kasho said:


> You are a brave guy, Tim.  I think Wibo was having too much fun to let go... WOW!


And they told me to hit him, LOL. No ****ing way, I knew better than that!


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## Timothy Stacy

Christopher Jones said:


> thinks the Dutch do seem to get a little too much fun from sending their dogs in on Americans....I could be wrong tho.....


Oh I think your right as that was the first out of 5 dogs! I started taking the pants off and they said, your not done yet!


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## Howard Knauf

Makes waterboarding look like childs play.


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## Chris McDonald

Don’t you hate it when you fell like your the food?


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## Gerry Grimwood

Timothy Stacy said:


> And they told me to hit him, LOL. No ****ing way, I knew better than that!


I wish you would've hit him, I bet you would've broke down and swore then.


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## Timothy Stacy

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I wish you would've hit him, I bet you would've broke down and swore then.


The next dog the handler did the hitting for me =D>


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## Timothy Stacy

Chris McDonald said:


> Don’t you hate it when you fell like your the food?


I think he liked the way I yelled!


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Timothy Stacy said:


> Selena, Queens day??? I'm still recovering!


You just over did it a bit after 9hrs in a plane :mrgreen:



Timothy Stacy said:


> For you guys putting Wibo on me, I think you should go a few more weeks before the baby comes !!!


 Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyy, that's just a very cruel thing to say to a whale-like mum-to-be.](*,) You're just picking on me 'cause I was the one that said you wasn't done yet after Wibo:-\"


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## Michelle Knight

Of COURSE Wibo likes us Americans...

...for LUNCH! ;-)


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## Vanessa Dunstan

Ohhhh that looked painful LOL have to give you 10 out of 10 for courage tho =D>


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## Candy Eggert

Timothy Stacy said:


> Very embarrassing but I promised!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ12WunSpS4


Priceless =D> :lol: Sick American!!


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## Ted Efthymiadis

It did kind of remind me of this... just a little.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ2fGuKqeJA


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## Vanessa Dunstan

ted efthymiadis said:


> it did kind of remind me of this... Just a little.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj2fgukqeja


 

lmao!!!


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## Fathi Shahin

WOW ! Awesome to see Wibo in action again. He definetly lives up to his reputation. 

Very gratefull to have a daughter of his.

You got some balls dude ! =D> 





.


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## Sam Bishop

'kay - that was funny! However, you have my utmost respect - at least you didn't cry. Not sure who enjoyed it more, Dick or Wibo


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## Timothy Stacy

Sam Bishop said:


> 'kay - that was funny! However, you have my utmost respect - at least you didn't cry. Not sure who enjoyed it more, Dick or Wibo


Yeah I think Dick enjoyed that just as much!


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## andrew kurtowicz

Timothy Stacy said:


> It felt like that too! He did not let go either, he about ripped the pants off me. It took a little while to fully let go and then he stared at me directly in the eye like I've never felt before(no blinking no looking away just a death stare. I think that dog has bad intentions!


One of our stud dog is out of dick and selenas lines and he has that same stare kinda like a great whites eyes just dark and no emotion at all you gotta love it


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## Timothy Stacy

Yeah dark eyes with no emotion , I remember the nightmare from last night!


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## Carol Boche

Thanks for the laugh Timothy!!! I enjoyed it! 

Doug, Chris and Dixie here at the office got a great laugh at it too....they had to come see what I was giggling about. 

Wibo definitely looks like he likes you lots!!!


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## Tim Martens

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> I posted already in the topic "litter Ebro x Mika" that you have met some family members of your puppy :mrgreen:
> I can hear myself laughing very loud on the vid  Dick and I find you a brave man to post the vid, you didn;t have to do it, RESPECT!
> 
> Tim Martens en Mike Schoonbrood know how you're feeling ;-)


But I took Wibo AFTER I took Spike. Bonus points! Plus, the concealed leg sleeve was a bit too small for my leg so it didn't completely close. Of course one of Spike's canines got in between and left it's mark on my leg.

Unfortunately my video footage of the incidents was lost (along with a bunch of other stuff from trip), so I feel confident in saying that I didn't scream nearly as much as Tim Stacy. HAHA.

But again, as Tim Stacy said, Wibo is a different dog. Unlike any I've seen before or after. Yes, he has a crushing, full mouth grip. But it's the stare that Tim Stacy speaks of. There isn't any frantic high pitch screaming from him. He just stares.....Through you. You can see he wants to hurt you. It is not a game for him. Not even a little bit. Difficult to describe really. You just have to see it...


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## Matt Grosch

How where Wibo and Spike compared to other good dogs you have seen around the US? I havent seen him in person, but everyone seems to be super impressed by Bogan, just wonder how similar or different they are.



(And there is a line from some movie about dead eyes staring through you, I know the one in JAWS, but I think there is something else where they are talking about a person)


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Tim Martens said:


> But I took Wibo AFTER I took Spike. Bonus points! Plus, the concealed leg sleeve was a bit too small for my leg so it didn't completely close. Of course one of Spike's canines got in between and left it's mark on my leg.
> 
> Unfortunately my video footage of the incidents was lost (along with a bunch of other stuff from trip), so I feel confident in saying that I didn't scream nearly as much as Tim Stacy. HAHA.
> 
> But again, as Tim Stacy said, Wibo is a different dog. Unlike any I've seen before or after. Yes, he has a crushing, full mouth grip. But it's the stare that Tim Stacy speaks of. There isn't any frantic high pitch screaming from him. He just stares.....Through you. You can see he wants to hurt you. It is not a game for him. Not even a little bit. Difficult to describe really. You just have to see it...


 Tim took Spike after Wibo and Baloe ;-)


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## Timothy Stacy

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Tim took Spike after Wibo and Baloe ;-)


There was one more that hurt a lot, I think Bassie!


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## Christopher Jones

Timothy Stacy said:


> There was one more that hurt a lot, I think Bassie!


I'd love to see some Bassie video. Wibo x Benta, pretty nice breeding. 
Hey Dick/Selena, what differences did you get with the addition of Mido in the breedings than without Mido?


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Christopher Jones said:


> Hey Dick/Selena, what differences did you get with the addition of Mido in the breedings than without Mido?


 more mal-like behaviour in some dogs


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## Timothy Stacy

Almost forgot it was Wibo's birthday the day that was taken. A fresh piece of meat for his B-day!


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## Candy Eggert

Timothy Stacy said:


> Almost forgot it was Wibo's birthday the day that was taken. A fresh piece of meat for his B-day!


Heard a rumor that Wibo likes his meat RAW


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## Timothy Stacy

I have a feeling he would have preferred it without the hidden sleeve :twisted:


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## Tim Martens

Matt Grosch said:


> How where Wibo and Spike compared to other good dogs you have seen around the US? I havent seen him in person, but everyone seems to be super impressed by Bogan, just wonder how similar or different they are.
> 
> 
> 
> (And there is a line from some movie about dead eyes staring through you, I know the one in JAWS, but I think there is something else where they are talking about a person)


I have only personally seen one dog in the US that was worth mentioning in the same breath with Wibo with concern to dominance/social aggression/whatever you want to call it. I did not get to see this dog very long as he ate his handler during his basic school so the dog went back to Adlerhorst. I don't know where the dog ended up. 

this is the dog: www.bloedlijnen.nl/stamboom.php?ID=9008

the problem with berry and i assume would be the case with Wibo as well, is that a dog with that much dominance will eventually bite the wrong person. what you have to remember is that in the US we ask much more of our patrol dogs than the dutch do. our dogs need to be able to search off leash with cover officers in close proximity. we need them to be able to work with our tactical team, often bypassing 6-8 team members in a stack while the dog is "in drive". we also ask our patrol dogs to be dual purpose. berry had almost no drive for a toy. he just wanted to eat people. i remember asking dick about wibo's drive for a toy and he said that wibo had good drive for the toy, but that he never played with wibo because getting the toy back would be a fight and he chose not to deal with that (smartly). dick/selena can correct me if i'm wrong here, but from my talks with dutch patrol dog handlers, they said they don't do a lot of searching with their dogs. most of their uses are crowd control/riot/bar fight type scenarios or what we would call "contact bites" (where the dog is placed on a bite). so when that is most of your deployments, you can afford to have a dog with high dominance because it is under direct control of the handler in most situations. 

don't get me wrong. i think a good patrol dog (in the US) needs at least some degree of dominance, but dealing with the level of a wibo is more than most could deal with and you'd have a hard time finding cover officers for your searches.

my dog bites people as a function of his training. we've channeled his drives such that: at the end of a search, he's getting a bite; if i yell at someone as they run away, he bites them; if someone attacks me, he bites them; if i have him by the collar and give him the vast command, he bites them. i'm quite sure that if my dog had not gone the route of sport/police dog, he'd never even think about biting a person. with a dog like wibo, you have the opposite training. you have to teach him the times he cannot bite because he has no qualms about biting a person. 

don't know if i answered your question, but it fun typing this


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## Matt Grosch

Wish I knew more so the pedigree would mean more than just some good looking dogs, (I do like brindle best, but those dark mals, like Robbie on the far right side, always impresses me too)


the only thing Im still trying to sort out, is how social the 'toughest' dogs can be. It makes complete sense that those monsters will only care about eating people, but have heard too many accounts from credible sources about dogs that were great social family dogs, but then a demon when working.


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## Christopher Jones

Berry is a dog I was looking at getting semen from when he was in Holland. In the end I didnt get around to it before he got sold off. 
Interesting to find out a little that happened to him. 



Tim Martens said:


> I have only personally seen one dog in the US that was worth mentioning in the same breath with Wibo with concern to dominance/social aggression/whatever you want to call it. I did not get to see this dog very long as he ate his handler during his basic school so the dog went back to Adlerhorst. I don't know where the dog ended up.
> 
> this is the dog: www.bloedlijnen.nl/stamboom.php?ID=9008
> 
> the problem with berry and i assume would be the case with Wibo as well, is that a dog with that much dominance will eventually bite the wrong person. what you have to remember is that in the US we ask much more of our patrol dogs than the dutch do. our dogs need to be able to search off leash with cover officers in close proximity. we need them to be able to work with our tactical team, often bypassing 6-8 team members in a stack while the dog is "in drive". we also ask our patrol dogs to be dual purpose. berry had almost no drive for a toy. he just wanted to eat people. i remember asking dick about wibo's drive for a toy and he said that wibo had good drive for the toy, but that he never played with wibo because getting the toy back would be a fight and he chose not to deal with that (smartly). dick/selena can correct me if i'm wrong here, but from my talks with dutch patrol dog handlers, they said they don't do a lot of searching with their dogs. most of their uses are crowd control/riot/bar fight type scenarios or what we would call "contact bites" (where the dog is placed on a bite). so when that is most of your deployments, you can afford to have a dog with high dominance because it is under direct control of the handler in most situations.
> 
> don't get me wrong. i think a good patrol dog (in the US) needs at least some degree of dominance, but dealing with the level of a wibo is more than most could deal with and you'd have a hard time finding cover officers for your searches.
> 
> my dog bites people as a function of his training. we've channeled his drives such that: at the end of a search, he's getting a bite; if i yell at someone as they run away, he bites them; if someone attacks me, he bites them; if i have him by the collar and give him the vast command, he bites them. i'm quite sure that if my dog had not gone the route of sport/police dog, he'd never even think about biting a person. with a dog like wibo, you have the opposite training. you have to teach him the times he cannot bite because he has no qualms about biting a person.
> 
> don't know if i answered your question, but it fun typing this


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Wish I knew more so the pedigree would mean more than just some good looking dogs, (I do like brindle best, but those dark mals, like Robbie on the far right side, always impresses me too)

It will never cease to amaze me how people still choose a "look" first.


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## Tim Martens

Christopher Jones said:


> Berry is a dog I was looking at getting semen from when he was in Holland. In the end I didnt get around to it before he got sold off.
> Interesting to find out a little that happened to him.


I want to say that another agency had him before our county did. I think LASO. Berry was the first of a couple dogs my county took after being rejected by LASO. It was a running joke for a while. If memory serves, it was told to our county that LASO saw something in one of his elbows. A funny gait or something. His xrays checked out and our county didn't see it. Berry ends up eating his handler. This happened one or two more times the same way. So our county guy who ran the unit said "LASO says his hips or elbows are funny, that means the dog eats handlers".

Berry would have been a nice addition to a breeding program that lacked dominance. Throw him in with some high prey lines and you'd theoretically have a nice litter. Again, because of Berry's lack of drive for a toy, he was only suitable for an agency that had single purpose dogs. So if you wanted to breed dual purpose prospects, again, you'd have to start with some super high prey lines to throw Berry in with.


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## Joby Becker

Nice!
Thanks for sharing


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## Matt Grosch

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Wish I knew more so the pedigree would mean more than just some good looking dogs, (I do like brindle best, but those dark mals, like Robbie on the far right side, always impresses me too)
> 
> It will never cease to amaze me how people still choose a "look" first.






Reading comprehension...., I didnt say anything like that. What I said was that I wish I had knowledge and familiarity of the dogs in that ones bloodline so that I would be able to tell something about it, as opposed to just seeing good looking dogs.

And, anyone that says they have no color preference, all things being equal, is lying.


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