# Wellness CORE



## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

connie and the other food experts:

any thoughts on this food? a few months ago i switched to innova evo to try and help with some ear allergies my dog was having. it seemed to greatly reduce the dog's ear issues, but the gas he had was horrendous. i gradually added in some cannidae to try and keep the benefits of the evo, but cut down on the gas. seems that the gas is as bad as it ever was. looking at why the evo was helping the ear allergy, a friend suggested that maybe it was the rice. just about every friggin dog food has rice, but this wellness CORE does not. it's their answer to evo. anybody have anything to say about that food?

also, what is the website that scores the foods?

thanks all.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> connie and the other food experts:
> 
> any thoughts on this food? a few months ago i switched to innova evo to try and help with some ear allergies my dog was having. it seemed to greatly reduce the dog's ear issues, but the gas he had was horrendous. i gradually added in some cannidae to try and keep the benefits of the evo, but cut down on the gas. seems that the gas is as bad as it ever was. looking at why the evo was helping the ear allergy, a friend suggested that maybe it was the rice. just about every friggin dog food has rice, but this wellness CORE does not. it's their answer to evo. anybody have anything to say about that food?
> 
> ...


Tim, do you mean the new Wellness no-grain cans, or kibble?


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

it's wellness CORE kibble. no grains. i noticed the protein/fat content is lower than the evo, so maybe better for gas?

the only other thing he gets in a squirt of grizzley salmon oil on top of his kibble. does that stuff make dogs gassy?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.feedmypet.com/dog-food-comparison.html

Unfortunately, none of the comparison sites have stayed current with new products. For example, only Whole Dog Journal (that I know of) has actually tested and rated (as excellent) the new Wellness 95% meat canned foods.

Many comparison sites are set up to compare a food the site is selling against other foods, and there's much spin involved. For example, Omega 3s might be highlighted, but the Omega 3s dogs need (long-chain, from marine sources) are NOT the short-chain Omega 3s that most dog food manufacturers use (flax, canola, etc.). Even dog foods that actually include fish oil are leaving out the fact that fish oil PUFAs cannot survive either the kibble or the canning process intact. 

So anyway, comparison sites paid for by a pet food company are probably a poor source of info. :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> the only other thing he gets in a squirt of grizzley salmon oil on top of his kibble. does that stuff make dogs gassy?


No, salmon oil would not be likely to trigger gas. (By the way, when you give fish oil, or any oil supplement, you want to give a Vitamin E capsule, which are easily available. I use 200 IU for a small dog and 400 IU for a big one. Dogs' systems use Vitamin E in processing oil supplements, to protect the delicate unsaturated fats.)

I will re-read the Wellness kibble review in WDJ, but I am pretty sure it was an excellent review.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/wellness/dog_wellness_grain_original.html

ingredients:

Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Tomato Pomace, Natural Chicken Flavor, Canola Oil, Chicken Liver, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract. 
_Wellness® uses Ethoxyquin-free protein sources_


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Yup, just read that site.

I would buy that food if I fed kibble. 

I would keep a close eye on his ears just in case there's a flax allergy, but I wouldn't expect it. (A few dogs are allergic to flax.)

If his ears ever look inflamed inside, there are ways to nip that in the bud before it becomes a full-blown ear infection, if you can keep a bottle of each of these on hand (next time you are at the vet's, you could pick them up):
ChlorhexiDerm Flush (a blue foaming liquid) and Otomax (drops).

There are three good ways to deal with gas (aside from #1, which you are doing, which is to try another top-quality food):

Feed twice a day because some dogs who eat their day's ration in one meal are more prone to gas;
Add probiotics to the food (unflavored, no sugar, live-culture yogurt;
Exercise lightly (just a walk -- nothing heavy) after meals and get the farting over with outdoors.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

as far as the ears, every time they've been checked, the vet just says they look red and irritated. last time i was there they gave me some two part cleaning/flushing solution (ADL Foaming Ear Cleanser and ADL Ear Flushing Drying Lotion). his symptoms are just head shaking. not bad enough to distract him while he's working, but usually first thing when i get him out of the car or out of the kennel and maybe a few times between working.

i'll try this wellness stuff and if the gas continues, i'll try some of your other suggestions. it really seems to have gotten worse. i can actually hear them now if the car isn't moving. pretty gross. then the accompanying smell a few seconds later. it isn't just right after feeding. i feed him at night before i goto bed and he'll fart all day the next day...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

If he is eating a big meal and then sleeping, some of the digestion process is slowed until he gets up and moves around. Any chance of feeding him earlier in the evening and maybe getting a little walk (just a couple of time around the yard will get the gas out of the upper and into the lower intestine where it will exit pretty fast)?

But maybe the food change will be enough. At first, the change itself might cause some gas, but then his system will acclimate.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> If he is eating a big meal and then sleeping, some of the digestion process is slowed until he gets up and moves around. Any chance of feeding him earlier in the evening and maybe getting a little walk (just a couple of time around the yard will get the gas out of the upper and into the lower intestine where it will exit pretty fast)?
> 
> But maybe the food change will be enough. At first, the change itself might cause some gas, but then his system will acclimate.


how soon after feeding for the walk? immediately or after about 10-15 minutes?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> how soon after feeding for the walk? immediately or after about 10-15 minutes?


Either, as long as it's not heavy exercise.

Some gas is a byproduct of "good" bacteria activity, but some is just swallowed air. Even the swallowed air kind gets smelly if it sits in the system long enough.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Buy some beano. It works. Ol mother ****er products usually produce gas.


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## Justin Eimer (Oct 17, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Buy some beano. It works. Ol mother ****er products usually produce gas.


I just laughed MFAO:lol:=D>=P~:lol:=D>

Interesting topic on the food allergies and the gas producing contents.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Tim,

In my experience some products do not suit some dogs. When I switched my Rott to Timberworlforganics Wild and Natural she had terrible gas and cowpats. I thought this was due to overfeeding (many of the grain free foods are very nutrinets dense), which helped with the cowpats but the gas stayed for the 6 weeks I fed the food. I switched to Orijen and no cowpats and no gas - just seems to suit her better.

Connie's advice is what I would normally advise along with feeding less, but sometimes you just have to change food.....


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I fed Wellness for years. Not the CORE, it wasn't available then, but the Fish and Sweet Potato, which totally took care of my chicken allergy dog's problems. He did great on it. Then something changed. My two older dogs lost some weight - only five pounds off a hundred pound dog for Baker, but nothing had changed in his routine - same exercise, same quantity of food, but he got thinner. So I talked to the salesperson in the store I buy from. She also mentioned gas. Yup. Baker had been farting up a storm. (hey all dogs have stinky butts... but his was baaaad) She also mentioned Wellness being bought by a multinational... Not sure of the truth to that, but something changed in their product.

So I switched. I'm in Canada, so not sure if these foods are available to you. The older dogs are on Oven-Baked, a kibble from Quebec that is very similar to (the same as??) what Wellness used to be. 

Ronan, the Malinois, is on Orijen. Nothing I tried before that, other than EVO, kept weight on him with a normal portion. (Wellness was near 6 cups a day and he was thin, Orijen is 3 cups a day and he looks good)


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## Melissa Hoyer (Aug 28, 2006)

Wanted to chime in here...I feed raw most of the month, but keep Wellness Core around for days the food doesn't thaw in time. It is the only kibble (and I have tried many!) that my GSD who has EPI can eat. Truly, it doesn't bother her at all and I find this amazing because she typically cannot eat kibble without nasty side effects...think this speaks highly of the quality of ingredients, balance, etc. I also use it as training treats...yum-o according to the dogs


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I feed raw but I use the Wellness Kor as training treats also - very well accepted by the dogs! They try and mug me for the contents of my pockets...


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

last two days i have been feeding him immediately when i get home rather than waiting until i go to bed. i have noticed a pretty significant decrease in the gas. i have slowly been introducing the CORE as well, but it's at such a low amount i doubt that has had anything to do with the change. 

thanks connie! i'll keep you posted.


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## Joel Anderson (Apr 16, 2007)

Tim,

I may try the core it looks good, but my dog had the same problem it about killed me in the car some times! I switched to Barking at the moon and have had great results, I also tried the Timberwolf organics, but I still like the barking at the moon.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> last two days i have been feeding him immediately when i get home rather than waiting until i go to bed. i have noticed a pretty significant decrease in the gas. i have slowly been introducing the CORE as well, but it's at such a low amount i doubt that has had anything to do with the change.



Oh, good! I have paused to experience gratitude many times to the old dog guy who told me, years ago, about letting the dog move around to get the digestion gas out the other end. :lol: I was quoting him directly when I said "Just a couple of turns around the yard, nothing heavy."


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Joel Anderson said:


> Tim,
> 
> I may try the core it looks good, but my dog had the same problem it about killed me in the car some times! I switched to Barking at the moon and have had great results, I also tried the Timberwolf organics, but I still like the barking at the moon.


you know, the smell was killing me as it was, but when i started actually hearing them, that was the final straw. part of me wanted to hit him with the e-collar when i heard them, but i just couldn't do it. what is attractive to me about the core is that it has glucosamine/chondroitin (sp i know). EVO does not have those. while my dog is only 5 and joint problems are non existant at this point, i like the idea of having a little in the food. it will take me about 2 or 3 weeks before he's fully on the core (i work new foods in VERY slowly and i still have almost a full bag, combined, of his current foods). once he's on it 100% i'll report back with my thoughts on it.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

My friends great dane could totally clear a room with her gas. They switched her to Nature's Variety (they were feeding crap in a can before because she wouldn't eat anything at all, till the recalls) and her gas problem is practically non existant. Diet makes a huge difference.


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

Lamb seems to give my dogs gas. It will run you out of the room.

I have switched all my dogs over to Orijen, and they are doing great on it.

You might have a look at it as well.

www.championpetfoods.com


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

just a note on the grizzly oil - if too much is given, my dogs will get gassy. they're on Canidae ALS and don't normally have gas issues, but when hubby does the feeding, he tends to just squirt it on there until he feels like stopping. At first I thought it was the SeaMeal, which he also tends to be heavy handed with, but it is definitely the oil causing the gas overdrive. 

Side note, I learned something - I've been giving all my dogs - both dobes, the pug, and the eskie - small doses of vit E. Guess I need to start doubling up for the dobermanns so they can be at 400 IU.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Amber Scott said:


> just a note on the grizzly oil - if too much is given, my dogs will get gassy. they're on Canidae ALS and don't normally have gas issues, but when hubby does the feeding, he tends to just squirt it on there until he feels like stopping. At first I thought it was the SeaMeal, which he also tends to be heavy handed with, but it is definitely the oil causing the gas overdrive.
> 
> Side note, I learned something - I've been giving all my dogs - both dobes, the pug, and the eskie - small doses of vit E. Guess I need to start doubling up for the dobermanns so they can be at 400 IU.


i don't know if the grizzly oil was causing the gas, but i do know it caused his stool to soften significantly. i only use one squirt of it. the other thing i've been doing the past couple days is give the vitamin e capsule (200 IU). so maybe the vitamin e has also helped the gas.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

My friend's Boston terrier is pretty sensitive to how much fish oil they can add and would get pretty bad diarrhea, but they are quite a bit smaller. Lily the female Malinois sometimes has the worst SBDs and I haven't quite nailed down what is causing it (almost no meal is the same on raw). Pork perhaps. She was very gassy when she switched to Chicken Soup when I first got her, but then she settled down.


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## Kim Costa (Dec 10, 2007)

You know, Iv'e had an awful time with my Boxers foods. Always try to feed a good quality food, we were just using Timberwolf and had great results, however, after two years of using it, the price went up and the quality went down so we moved on. This is a tough thing, our oldest Boxer Maya has colitis, you need a lower fat % in whatever food you feed to keep off the steroids and avoid any upset, also they "seem" to be sensitive to poultry. I had tried Evo and BATM before and I just couldn't get their stools to form up and their stomach's were so upset. So, I have moved on to Core, they have no gas, no upset stomachs and the allergy Im hoping was to whatever small amount of grains may have been in a previous food tried, I don't know, Im really likin it so far and so are they. They practically attack me when it's feedin time  SO, I will continue to monitor and pray for the best. Oh, and I did e-mail them yesterday with a question about possibly making a grain-free food with a different protein source, just in case the poultry problem does rear it's ugly head, they called me at home this afternoon, they were wonderful, answered all my questions and their sending me some coupons!!!!! Sweet!!! Best of luck to you , I'd give it a try, excellent food!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kim Costa said:


> You know, Iv'e had an awful time with my Boxers foods. Always try to feed a good quality food, we were just using Timberwolf and had great results, however, after two years of using it, the price went up and the quality went down so we moved on. This is a tough thing, our oldest Boxer Maya has colitis, you need a lower fat % in whatever food you feed to keep off the steroids and avoid any upset, also they "seem" to be sensitive to poultry. I had tried Evo and BATM before and I just couldn't get their stools to form up and their stomach's were so upset. So, I have moved on to Core, they have no gas, no upset stomachs and the allergy Im hoping was to whatever small amount of grains may have been in a previous food tried, I don't know, Im really likin it so far and so are they. They practically attack me when it's feedin time  SO, I will continue to monitor and pray for the best. Oh, and I did e-mail them yesterday with a question about possibly making a grain-free food with a different protein source, just in case the poultry problem does rear it's ugly head, they called me at home this afternoon, they were wonderful, answered all my questions and their sending me some coupons!!!!! Sweet!!! Best of luck to you , I'd give it a try, excellent food!


Oh, I was under the impression that they DID make more than one Core recipe. I didn't realize that it was just the poultry blend. When Core came out, I thought I read in WDJ that there were three no-grain Wellness foods, all 95% meat.

When I read the ingredients on the can of poultry Core, I was impressed. If I had to feed a commercial food, Wellness Core would be on my short list.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kim, what went down with the Timberwolf Organics? It's not available in my area (or even in my state, I think...), but I always hear good things about it.


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## Kim Costa (Dec 10, 2007)

Well, after a long list of threads and me reading and re-reading threads, it seems they changed their ingredients in their food and never changed their bags, said it was an oversight?? Then they had to change the "names" of what was in it because the AAFCO?? didn't accept it?? I don't know, it just sounds like a lame excuse, Im upset because I used it for two years and although I did have good results, I feel like they lied. Theres horrible customer service and the price continues to climb, I don't know, I just feel like I really cannot trust them. Google it, Im sure you'll find it. I don't like talking bad or saying things like this because most of the time you don't know both sides of the story, I just feel differently about them now, and although my guys thrived, I have to take a step back, but yes, it was an awesome food, still is, it's just me..............


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kim Costa said:


> Well, after a long list of threads and me reading and re-reading threads, it seems they changed their ingredients in their food and never changed their bags, said it was an oversight?? Then they had to change the "names" of what was in it because the AAFCO?? didn't accept it?? I don't know, it just sounds like a lame excuse, Im upset because I used it for two years and although I did have good results, I feel like they lied. Theres horrible customer service and the price continues to climb, I don't know, I just feel like I really cannot trust them. Google it, Im sure you'll find it. I don't like talking bad or saying things like this because most of the time you don't know both sides of the story, I just feel differently about them now, and although my guys thrived, I have to take a step back, but yes, it was an awesome food, still is, it's just me..............


Timberwolf, right?

Not Wellness Core?


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## Kim Costa (Dec 10, 2007)

Yes, Timberwolf, so far the Wellness Core has been doing great with them, as far as transitioning goes, tomorrow they start full on just the Core. Still crossing my fingers.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

so my pooch has been on 100% CORE for about two weeks. like i said, i still had quite a bit of the other two foods left and that i was going to GRADUALLY phase in the CORE (this is actually my second bag of CORE). results:

1) gas is WAY down. hard to say how much of this is due to the CORE, or following the tip offered by Connie of feeding him earlier.

2) stools seem to be a bit more solid than they were on EVO.

3) ear allergy is MAYBE a little less, but probably the same.


so i think i'll be sticking with CORE for a while.


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## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

Revisiting this thread on a search to report that I have switched to Wellness CORE Ocean Formula. So far my two German Shorthairs have been doing great thier stools are so firm they bounce off the ground and roll:razz:. The reason for the switch was my 12yr old GSP has severe allergies.I was wondering what formula would less likely to cause an allergic reaction the chicken/turkey or the ocean-fish?
Thanks.


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## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

Well been a couple of months now on CORE and I have to say quite impressed! I am using the ocean formula kibble and every bag I get a flat of CORE 95% canned food and alternate the flavor. I liked it so much I am feeding my police K-9 CORE out of my own pocket and giving the ProPLan performance work gives me to the local shelter for dogs!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

David Stucenski said:


> Well been a couple of months now on CORE and I have to say quite impressed! I am using the ocean formula kibble and every bag I get a flat of CORE 95% canned food and alternate the flavor. I liked it so much I am feeding my police K-9 CORE out of my own pocket and giving the ProPLan performance work gives me to the local shelter for dogs!


Good deal!  And I'm sure the local dogs appreciate the donation. It's no where near Wellness CORE, but certainly not the worst! I ran a food and cat litter drive for a local shelter for the shelter club at the vet school and we got some pretty awful junk donated. 

For your previous question, there's really no such thing as a hypoallergenic ingredient for any food (besides *perhaps* the hydrolyzed protein diets, but I still don't know if I buy the idea). It just depends on the dog. What may be hypoallergenic for one is not for another. Plus dogs can show the same signs of GI upset and skin issues and it may not be an allergy (provoked by the immune system). It may be an intolerance, which is not provoked by the immune system. It's also a good idea to rotate formulas when possible, as you're doing. :-D


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## Sharon Adams (Nov 6, 2007)

Kim Costa said:


> Well, after a long list of threads and me reading and re-reading threads, it seems they changed their ingredients in their food and never changed their bags, said it was an oversight?? Then they had to change the "names" of what was in it because the AAFCO?? didn't accept it?? I don't know, it just sounds like a lame excuse, Im upset because I used it for two years and although I did have good results, I feel like they lied. Theres horrible customer service and the price continues to climb, I don't know, I just feel like I really cannot trust them. Google it, Im sure you'll find it. I don't like talking bad or saying things like this because most of the time you don't know both sides of the story, I just feel differently about them now, and although my guys thrived, I have to take a step back, but yes, it was an awesome food, still is, it's just me..............


your not the only one that has left TW because of their terrible customer service, rising prices, lower quality ingrdients, b.s. bag story....
I stopped feeding it because my dogs (all three) did poorly on it, but many friends have now left them too.
Another big beef was during all the food recalls no one could get any info from them. 
I have heard a lot of good stuff on the Wellnes Core and will be giving it a try this week.


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## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

My two shorthairs are doing well on the Core Ocean, but I was wondering if the regular formula would give better engery for my police K-9? Was wondering what protein source is the best for dogs. You don't see that many dogs diving into the water to grab a salmon. Is it a good idea to change formulas every now and then as long as you stay with the Core?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Stucenski said:


> My two shorthairs are doing well on the Core Ocean, but I was wondering if the regular formula would give better engery for my police K-9? Was wondering what protein source is the best for dogs. You don't see that many dogs diving into the water to grab a salmon. Is it a good idea to change formulas every now and then as long as you stay with the Core?


Are you using the kibble (not canned)?

The original Core is poultry. Both white fish (which is part of the Ocean formula) and poultry are efficient proteins.

The Ocean formula might've been developed as an alternative protein source for dogs who have developed a poultry allergy. (If an allergy had been identified via an elimination diet as poultry, AND no other allergens [like flax] that were in the Ocean formula were identified during the challenge phase of an elimination diet, then it would work.) But it's also the same protein, etc., percentages as the Original.

I think that variety in protein profiles is ideal. If I used kibble, I'd use more than one formula. I'd probably choose a fish one and a different one.

I would be sure to reserve (never feed) at least one protein source (one that's readily-available as a single-protein food) against possible future allergies.

Food (protein) allergies develop after repeated exposure. (Sensitivities are not the same as true allergies.)

Of course, food allergies are way less likely than flea hypersensitivity or inhalant/environmental allergies.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Stucenski said:


> .... I was wondering what formula would less likely to cause an allergic reaction the chicken/turkey or the ocean-fish? Thanks.


That's 100% individual. It depends entirely on what the individual dog's allergies were, and that would depend on what the dog had eaten.

Fish is novel to some dogs, but say a dog had lived with cats -- then the likelihood of his never having eaten fish (in either the form of new cat food or "used" cat food) would be slim.

This is probably another good place to slip in the fact that no matter what a vet may tell you, the RAST, ELISA, and intradermal tests are not useful for identifying food allergies. Only an elimination diet can ID food allergies.

EDIT: I now see that post #36 above already had a lot of this info. Duh.


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## David Stucenski (Mar 29, 2008)

I have been feeding this with great results, but I have a male german shorthair who is 12yrs and was wondering if this food is too high in protein and when to switch to something else.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

David, it kind of depends...if you get annual blood work done on a senior dog (which you should), you can keep an eye out for kidney function. Unfortunately, the BUN and creatinine only looks abnormal when about 60-70% or so of kidney function is already gone. High protein doesn't necessarily cause kidney failure per se in seniors. It's more the high phosphorus ,sodium, etc that stresses the kidneys and animal protein tends to be higher in those than plant protein. This is why most recipes for doing a home prepared cooked diet for dogs with kidney failure will have a good deal of their protein from plant sources. 

There are two current schools of thought in veterinary diets on protein levels and senior dogs. The Hill's school of thought says to greatly restrict the level of protein to around 12% (the average adult dry dog food is around 24-28%, give or take). The Purina/Royal Canin school of thought says to give a moderately low level of protein (like 15-16%, give or take) because they think if you go too low, the glomerular filtration rate of the kidneys will be too low. I personally agree with the Purina school of thought more. Purina has also done research showing that HEALTHY senior dogs actually require slightly more highly digestible protein than young or middle aged dogs because they less efficient at processing it. That's why you can sometimes see lean muscle mass in older dogs (and for the fact they probably don't exercise as much). So healthy senior dogs can do fine on slightly higher protein diet, just do a blood chemistry panel every 6-12 months to make sure.

What I do for my 12ish year old husky/Rottie mix is he gets 1 cup of Innova Senior Plus and 1 cup of something else, like either EVO Original or California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato. He also may get 1/3 of a can of canned food as well. That seems to have been working pretty well for him and he's honestly doing better on that than he was on raw. All except his teeth, that is! #-o But they still get a lamb neck bone or ribs for their teeth a few times a week to work on. (disclaimer: I am the Natura rep at the vet school, but I don't have a problem with people feeding what work well for them)


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