# Training from Birth



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

How much imprinting do you do with your puppies from the time they are born? I get mine use to noise with a radio. After 3 weeks, I introduce new footing into the box. Looking for that something new with this litter of Bouvs...maybe I'll feed them!:?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

there is a great book by steven r. lindsey called theory of applied dog training or behavior vol.1. (I think that's the name)...it's an expensive book. But the first part of the book talks about what parts of the brain are working, some studies on why they do the behaviors they do at such a young age. One thing I noted is the pups are very aware of temps. always strugging to be warm. And that introducing the pups to a cool surface with heat close by, and letting them make thier way to it seems to help in later problem solving skills.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Imprinting? None....unless you consider they are born when they can walk. But you already knew the answer.LOL


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Yes, I do agree with Don.. That I do not think it is necassary...and sometimes can be hurtful. I see people trying to install stuff into a puppy that simply is not there...the end up exastrubating the problem. So, I think moderate the moderation.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I think there are many different opinions about this. I say do what you believe works best for you. The truth is that you can do nothing except feed the mother well for the first 6 weeks and with a good mother you will have healthy puppies when they are 6 weeks old. You can also start to do a lot with the puppies from birth, start to feed them at 3 weeks, wean them at 4 weeks, separate them at 5 weeks, and expose them to a lot till they are 16 weeks old. I know people who use both methods, and some people who do something in between. I think everyone knows my take on this topic, but you should do what you think is right for the litter, that is all that matters I guess.
According to some people you can raise a pup in a dark basement until he is 18 months old and he will come out, let his eyes adjust to the sun light, and be ready to pass the special forces selection testing.
I have not figured out how to breed those types of dogs yet, so I chose to expose my puppies to the world early.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

If I was breeding solely for pets, I would handle them from day one so they all looked solid. Handling never hurts the less confident. Actually, after 4 weeks, they get the most attention. In the long run, I agree with Mike, it is best to do what you are used to doing so there are no surprises like feral acting pups that can't be handled.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike what do you use for your shot and deworming schedule? I know what I use and others say that doing anything is not natural. No need to have puppies full of worms...


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Out of curiosity, why wean them at 4 weeks and separate them at 5 weeks. There has to be a reason.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I think 4 or 5 weeks is a great time to subject them to novel experience, to examine how they handle their _first take_ of the situation. That's IMO more of a _socialization_ thing, than any sort of imprinting of a behavior for them to perform.

For example, I used 22LR gunfire when Nickie and her siblings were 5&half weeks old. I began from 35-40 foot distance, firing a blank shot every few steps on approach until I was about four feet away from the group, prepared to stop if any reacted negatively. Nothing wrong with conditioning to lots of sensory experience, but I don't view that as imprinting behaviors.

I see imprinting as more of a limited-time experience of responding to a situation with a particular behavior, while you may be guiding to help shape that behavior. Then, it's simply "stored away" for later. So that, some long time later, when the dog is exposed to that or a similar situation when it is older, past being a puppy and now engaged in a regular regimen of training, it doesn't need to tax its brain about what it's going to do, just draws from that stored response option from the past, without distortion from between-time learned behaviors.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Mike what do you use for your shot and deworming schedule? I know what I use and others say that doing anything is not natural. No need to have puppies full of worms...


I worm them at 2 weeks, 4 weeks, and again at 8 weeks. I feed them a lot of raw meat when they are little and it seams like I get a lot of worms out of them maybe from that??
I vaccinate them around 7 weeks, and again at around 12 weeks, and that is all.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Out of curiosity, why wean them at 4 weeks and separate them at 5 weeks. There has to be a reason.


I start to feed them raw meat mixed with soaked kibble around 3 weeks or so, and begin to wean them shortly after that, 4 weeks is not written in stone, it depends on the puppies, but most of them fight like hell around that age anyway, so I just separate them to avoid problems and to start to evaluate how they do on their own. Last year I went to Holland for 10 days and I left a litter together that was 4 weeks old when I left. Before they were 5 weeks old the best puppy in the litter had been killed in a fight with his littermates, ever since then I dont allow Arko puppies to stay together past 4 weeks usually.
When an enire litter is together you see a fake picture of what the puppy is like, he will show much stronger character when he has his mother and his littermates with him. When he is separated and forced to cope with life without any "backup" then you can see the real character.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike at 3 weeks for worming, 2cc of wormer? I use 3cc @ 4 weeks.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Mike at 3 weeks for worming, 2cc of wormer? I use 3cc @ 4 weeks.


 That depends on the type of wormer. I use the strongid-T stuff from Revival Animal Health for the little puppies, it is very safe. My vet says you can not really overdose a dog with the stuff, but I wouldn't test that theory. The Nemex-2 is way more diluted that the stuff I use, so 3 cc of what I use would be good for a 30 lb dog. I give my 2 week old puppies about 1/2 cc, by 4 weeks they get about 1 cc.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> When an enire litter is together you see a fake picture of what the puppy is like, he will show much stronger character when he has his mother and his littermates with him. When he is separated and forced to cope with life without any "backup" then you can see the real character.


I can see what your getting at here Mike and makes sense. We look at it a bit different because I am not looking for character but total confidence and it is easy to see with the littermates around I think. My preference is the pups that don't look for trouble but don't avoid it. The pups that the bullies to avoid. I rely on the other dogs to tell me what is what. Also, many of my dogs have to be able to interact well with other dogs so I keep them around dogs.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> That depends on the type of wormer. I use the strongid-T stuff from Revival Animal Health for the little puppies, it is very safe. My vet says you can not really overdose a dog with the stuff, but I wouldn't test that theory. The Nemex-2 is way more diluted that the stuff I use, so 3 cc of what I use would be good for a 30 lb dog. I give my 2 week old puppies about 1/2 cc, by 4 weeks they get about 1 cc.


 I used 1cc for my 3 week olds and one was nothing but fight...he got it anyway! It was Nemex and I'll do it again next week. 1cc as well?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I can see what your getting at here Mike and makes sense. We look at it a bit different because I am not looking for character but total confidence and it is easy to see with the littermates around I think. My preference is the pups that don't look for trouble but don't avoid it. The pups that the bullies to avoid. I rely on the other dogs to tell me what is what. Also, many of my dogs have to be able to interact well with other dogs so I keep them around dogs.


I understand your logic here as well. The type of jobs that we do with our dogs require them to work solo, without a pack to work with. With a hunting dog it would be totally different for sure.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> I used 1cc for my 3 week olds and one was nothing but fight...he got it anyway! It was Nemex and I'll do it again next week. 1cc as well?


I think with Nemex because it is more diluted than the type that I use, the dose with Nemex-2 is 1 cc per 5 lbs of body weight I THINK (not for sure because I dont use it) with the stuff that i use the does is 1 cc per 10 lbs of body weight. But like I said the stuff if very safe and you could triple the does and have no problems.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike thanks for the information, I appreciate your thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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