# Using a ball when training "heel?"



## Kori Bigge (Nov 28, 2007)

I just started teaching Kodee to heel. We are starting out veerrry slowly, off-lead (in the house) with one step at a time. He is the first dog I've ever trained, and so I am learning "how" to train him, as I'm doing it, so bear with me. 

Tonight I used a cut-up hotdog for his lure/reward. We started out w/him on my left side in a sit, then I said "heel", took one exaggerated step forward with my left leg, and lured him into position w/the hotdog. It worked pretty well. I literally just did one step each time, and marked and rewarded for being in the correct position. He did great, and I kept it brief, so he was still eager to train.

My question is: Is there a way to use a ball as the lure/reward? Kodee will do anything for his ball, and I normally use it as his reward when we practice commands that he's already learned. I normally use food mainly for the teaching phase. I think I saw somewhere (don't remember where) that you could drop a ball from your armpit for your dog while teaching the heel, but I have no idea if that really works. I can't see how you could do it without the dog getting totally distracted. But I wanted to ask, because if there is a way to do it, Kodee would probably be the dog to train with that method.

TIA!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

You can do the arm pit ball dropping thing (and there's all sorts of rather expensive training vests that will do this as well), but I find it easier just to have it out of sight in a pocket or whatever, mark the behavior you want, and then present the ball/tug for playing. Avoid the temptation (and it's a big one!) to mark at the same time you're reaching for the ball because the dog will likely pay more attention to your hand moving than the sound of the clicker or your verbal marker. The meaning of the marker may be lost in the shuffle if this happens. I'm a klutz as it is, so this works out better for me. Plus I want the dog to look at me, not the ball under my chin or armpit or wherever. Keeping it totally out of sight so the dog has more chances to get it right without too much excitement is what works best for me at first.


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## Kori Bigge (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks, Maren. So it's a good idea to stop in the middle of a training session and "play" as the reward? I feel like an idiot, but I've never thought of that.  I always had the impression that you don't play until after the session is over. Man, I've been missing out on the best incentive Kodee could have! I've never seen a dog as ball-crazy as he is. He'd stand on his head to play ball if he could figure out how to do it. \\/


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If the dog's drive for the ball is that strong I would stay with food until he understands the exercise really well. The ball this early in the game may be to much distraction for the dog to think properly.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I used a ball for Tiko and food for Yasko because Yasko is a clown and Tiko is Mr Serious  Still amazes me how opposite 2 litter mates can be, yet, stick em in the kennel and its like you're watching twins do exactly the same thing at the exact same moment.

Anyway, sent you a video Kori.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

> but I find it easier just to have it out of sight in a pocket or whatever


Something I learnt from someone recently was that "where" the reward comes from makes a big difference. Especially with a very reactive dog. If you take a tug from your right pocket, many dogs will then lower their heads toward the right pocket even while maintaining eye contact, in anticipation of the reward coming from that pocket. If you want that really tight "looking straight up at you" face and the dogs gaze is kinda low, have the reward come from behind the dogs head, like having it in your back pocket or left pocket and bringing it out around your left side.

This is also why ball droppers are so effective. My dogs are rewarded for eye contact, but the reward also comes from the direction of the eyes. They have to look up with their NOSE in order to catch the ball when it comes. If I wear no ball drop jacket and have no ball, I can still get that same focus, they look at the eyes, not the ball dropper, but where the ball comes from (like armpit) reinforces where their head should STAY.

Not all dogs are effected, but especially very reactive dogs like Lyka benefit considerably from anticipating the reward coming from behind them.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

You could hold the ball on your left shoulder, and drop when he is focused and looking directly at you, this has worked great for me. Just use the intermintant reward system, so he doesn't know exactly when the ball is going to drop.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Mike, I'd say that'd be why it's especially important to click/mark only for looking you in the face with correct body positioning *short pause* then reach for the toy and switch where it is coming from. Once the exercise is complete and correct and behavior is marked, why would they need to keep the focus? But certainly, mixing it up where it comes from (jacket/vest pocket, tucked under the shirt, in a cargo pants pocket, etc) is helpful. Once the dog _really_ gets the point is to keep that eye contact=reward, I would suspect you could dance around naked jumping up and down yelling and waving the tug or toy in your hand, but they would know that they whould not be marked and rewarded unless they keep that eye contact.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Breaking the heel down will help if your trying to keep the dogs focus. Teach the dog to "focus" first, then the seated position, then the motion. I also believe that marking good or bad behavior is very important in keeping good communication. Im not a big fan of the spontaneous reward, I believe it makes the dog "flinchy" always looking for his reward, which may cause him to break easily. I would try to mark his good behavior, followed by his release command, then a short game with his ball.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Something I learnt from someone recently was that "where" the reward comes from makes a big difference. Especially with a very reactive dog. If you take a tug from your right pocket, many dogs will then lower their heads toward the right pocket even while maintaining eye contact, in anticipation of the reward coming from that pocket. If you want that really tight "looking straight up at you" face and the dogs gaze is kinda low, have the reward come from behind the dogs head, like having it in your back pocket or left pocket and bringing it out around your left side.
> 
> This is also why ball droppers are so effective. My dogs are rewarded for eye contact, but the reward also comes from the direction of the eyes. They have to look up with their NOSE in order to catch the ball when it comes. If I wear no ball drop jacket and have no ball, I can still get that same focus, they look at the eyes, not the ball dropper, but where the ball comes from (like armpit) reinforces where their head should STAY.
> 
> Not all dogs are effected, but especially very reactive dogs like Lyka benefit considerably from anticipating the reward coming from behind them.


Exactly why I like the ball in my left arm pit. My dogs head position is straight up, but his legs are nicely collected under him. Also as you say, the dog must never be rewarded if he is not in 100% perfect position. The other reason I like the ball in the arm pit is I can release it with very little movement instead of having to reach into a pocket.

You should be rewarding after only a few steps, especially in the beginning. You might heel a few steps, let him have the ball for a second then step right back into heeling, or be heeling theh suddenly turn to the dog and start playing tug and backing up at the same time, take the toy, step right back into heeling.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

todd pavlus said:


> You could hold the ball on your left shoulder, and drop when he is focused and looking directly at you, this has worked great for me. Just use the intermintant reward system, so he doesn't know exactly when the ball is going to drop.


I do this, too, as my armpits are not far from the ground - it's not that unmowed grass would tickle them, but my GSDs are 68 cm at shoulder. I put the ball/kong under the t-shirt and let the loop show a little.

Another idea is to wear something like a key "chain" of cotton around your neck and attach a "plug" to it, from a bottle of sherry or something. The plug fits in the hole in the ball and the loop hangs down so that it's pretty quick to tug on. Wearing a vest with a zip means that it can be hidden gradually. The dog will want to grab it at first but if it's in such drive, it's easy to deliver a correction.



Bob Scott said:


> If the dog's drive for the ball is that strong I would stay with food until he understands the exercise really well. The ball this early in the game may be to much distraction for the dog to think properly.


I'm with you here. I start off with stationary heeling, spitting reward into his mouth. I do it all slow motion at the beginning and then take half steps. Spitting is contra-productive with the other dog as he jumps up afterwards - I've tried correcting it but lost the "flow" and was becoming disfigured so I gave it over his head like Mike Schoonbrood says.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Most of the time I start my heeling with the ball tucked under my jaw to reinforce eye contact. I’m too germaphobic to keep it there after the first drop so I move it to the left armpit. I stay away from pockets because I don’t want to telegraph the delivery of the reward.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

My dog is too reactive to my arm movement up as I release the tug/ball from my pit, I hold it with my elbo bent and my hand practicly in my armpit and fling it away instead of just dropping it down. I have been bit a few too many times by my bumbling mutt and I sure as hell don't hold anything under my chin, I like my face the way it is. Allot of people I train with stash their tug in their back, reach with the left hand and toss it over the back of the dogs head. I'm going to try to get myself to get in this habit and see how it works for my dog. Better a dog slobbery back/buttcrack than a wetted up armpit or neck, I even know one gal that stashes her dogs ball in her bra. Sorry I can't do it! I don't mind so much at the end of the day whenI know my showeer is coming soon but allot of times I work my dog for 5 minutes put him up and then wrk him 5-10 more in an hour or 2 several times a day. The thought of the cumulative drool crusted to my body parts makes me gag, especially when I have to return to the house and sit on my furniture or hold babies. :-&


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matthew Grubb said:


> Most of the time I start my heeling with the ball tucked under my jaw to reinforce eye contact. I’m too germaphobic to keep it there after the first drop so I move it to the left armpit. I stay away from pockets because I don’t want to telegraph the delivery of the reward.


Matthew, if you marker train and the dog fully understands it, having the ball in a pocket is not a problem. Once you mark the dog understands the reward will come. 
Course me being old, I fumble all over the place trying to remember what pocket I put the reward in. 
It's embarressing when the dog starts rolling it's eyes and yawning out on the training field.  :grin:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I agree with Bob. I am a huge klutz. In between the leash, the treats, the tug/ball, the clicker, trying not to trip over my dog, and my own two feet and poor sense of direction, I'm a disaster on the training field or agility field if I have to hold more than one or two things. It's pretty simple (in theory, haha). Dog does it right, mark/click, slight pause, get treat/tug/ball out for reward. Once the dog is primed for the marker word/clicker, they know it's coming so you don't need to resort to fancy gadgets to drop the ball or spitting treats out of your mouth. Makes things much simpler and low tech.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

hahahha....I see it the opposite way. if you train the dog to be in correct position from the time it is little, and just keep a ball in your pit to help the young dog keep in position, your hands are free.... and you don't have to worry about dealing with fancy newfangled gadgets like clickers or verbal markers.\\/ \\/


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Cmon now! How would you feel about holding a ball in yer mouth that someone had in their arm pit? :-& 
I wouldn't do that to a ....well....to a dog! :-D :wink:


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Glad to know I'm not alone in the bumbling dept. I mark with a word, so one less gadget to have on hand.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Cmon now! How would you feel about holding a ball in yer mouth that someone had in their arm pit? :-&
> I wouldn't do that to a ....well....to a dog! :-D :wink:


Never let'em see ya sweat.:-D


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, in Chris M's case, he's got nice aerodynamic pits now. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad... :-k


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

LOL at least the ball wont come out full of hair like his wifes soap. :-&


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> LOL at least the ball wont come out full of hair like his wifes soap. :-&


:-o :-& Now that's just plain wrong. Don't care how ya spell it! :lol:


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