# Abseiling harness?



## Karin Niessen

With our group we also do some abseiling stuff and being raised by a crane to be dumped in a building and stuff like that. Jamey (dog) and I are not allowed to do this, because there isn't a harness in her size... I have a 'doggy backpack' in whicch I can carry her, provided by the group, but that isn't safe enough by far in my eyes... I have been searching myself, but haven't been able to find a mini-sized harnass over here. Everything is for larger dogs. And I guess that is kind of logicall as there aren't many mini SAR dogs, but it is making it hard for me to be able to join my team on those trainings...

Do any of you have any clue if those harnasses exist in her size (Jack Russell size), and where to get them? Preferably in Europe, but if it won't become too expensive I would consider importing it from America...


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## Catalina Valencia

We got a harness as a donation from Great Britain that could be adjusted, but the smaller size you could safely get a dog on it was about a Border Collie of no less than 14 kgs.


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## Randy Allen

Karin,
If you can't find the harness you want, why not make or have one made?
The places I'd starting asking about making something like that would be sail makers or cobblers. Any place that handle heavy material.
I'd think any talented seamster could give you a smaller version if they had an example of what you wanted and if not too out sized cut one down.

A JR huh? Cool.


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## Randy Allen

Perhaps the harness repair shop at a race track?


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## Karin Niessen

Randy Allen said:


> A JR huh? Cool.


A JR/Yorkie cross :mrgreen:

Still haven't found any. Am indeed thinking of hanving one made or something... She is only 5 kg's and I just can't find anything in that size... very annoying...


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## Jennifer Coulter

Good luck! I am still looking for one for my 42 lbs dog!

Do you need a vest that the dog can search in, or just one to sling the dog in and then you will remove it?

If it is just for hanging the dog in, it should be pretty easy to get one made, for your dog.

If you actually want the dog to be able to work in the same harness it can hang in, getting a really good fit will be more important.

Also are you going to be with the dog, or does the dog need to be slung/repelled on it's own?

I have different types of harnesses for different applications. I am still looking at getting one made that the dog can wear to search in, and can hang in.

So far I am using this modified Ruffwear harness for glacier travel, it will hold a fall, and the dog can be raised or lowered in it. I wouldn't want to fly with the dog in it long distances, or hang him too long as I would prefer some more rear end support. I use another harness he can't search in if he will be hanging long time.

The Ruffwear harness has had the plasitic parts removed and replaced with fall rated hardwear and extra bar tacking has been used. Maybe you can modify some harness that comes in your dog's size to work?
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02717.jpg
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02719.jpg


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## Anna Kasho

Jennifer Coulter said:


> The Ruffwear harness has had the plasitic parts removed and replaced with fall rated hardwear and extra bar tacking has been used.


 
Sorry to side track - but where can I get hardware like this? And what is "bar tacking"?


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## Lynn Cheffins

fall rated hardware would be stuff that is made for climbing/slinging applications or parachute hardware etc.

bar tacking - like a really close zigzag stitch - (belt loops and pockets on jeans, coveralls etc are usually bartacked) - one method of reinforcing the stitching on high stress points.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Anna Kasho said:


> Sorry to side track - but where can I get hardware like this? And what is "bar tacking"?


Not super easy to find in Canada, I have a connection that brings some gear from this company in. Doesn't have a store front.

You could try to find a dealer in the US.

http://www.austrialpin.at/

Not sure why it won't give the complete link. Go to English, then Products, then Industral Safety, then Cobra and so on....


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## Jennifer Coulter

Here is another one. I am pretty sure that Emergco buys them from someone else and puts their name on it, but not sure. You could call them and ask.
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=January081.jpg
http://www.emergco.com/


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## Jennifer Coulter

Upon further reflection the Emergco buckle I posted may not be fall rated. Rather it is designed to carry a load, like under a helicopter, but not be shock loaded by a fall. Make sure if you really want a fall rated buckle that you ask specifically about that. If you just want one to sling the dog in, the Emergco one would be fine.


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## Anna Kasho

Lynn and Jennifer, thanks for the help!


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## Karin Niessen

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Good luck! I am still looking for one for my 42 lbs dog!
> 
> Do you need a vest that the dog can search in, or just one to sling the dog in and then you will remove it?
> 
> If it is just for hanging the dog in, it should be pretty easy to get one made, for your dog.
> 
> If you actually want the dog to be able to work in the same harness it can hang in, getting a really good fit will be more important.
> 
> Also are you going to be with the dog, or does the dog need to be slung/repelled on it's own?
> 
> I have different types of harnesses for different applications. I am still looking at getting one made that the dog can wear to search in, and can hang in.
> 
> So far I am using this modified Ruffwear harness for glacier travel, it will hold a fall, and the dog can be raised or lowered in it. I wouldn't want to fly with the dog in it long distances, or hang him too long as I would prefer some more rear end support. I use another harness he can't search in if he will be hanging long time.
> 
> The Ruffwear harness has had the plasitic parts removed and replaced with fall rated hardwear and extra bar tacking has been used. Maybe you can modify some harness that comes in your dog's size to work?
> http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02717.jpg
> http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02719.jpg


I am going to be with the dog, she will be fixed onto my harness... And then we will be raised/lowered together... It's also for helicopter work, but I don't know anything about that, haven't seen it or anything.
I know my group has harnesses that have straps around the hind legs and a piece of cloth or something under the belly
http://94.100.113.184/354750001-354800000/354779301-354779400/354779376_5_LLYl.jpeg
http://94.100.114.107/354650001-354700000/354696401-354696500/354696475_6_M1gk.jpeg


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## Jennifer Coulter

Karin Niessen said:


> I am going to be with the dog, she will be fixed onto my harness... And then we will be raised/lowered together... It's also for helicopter work, but I don't know anything about that, haven't seen it or anything.
> I know my group has harnesses that have straps around the hind legs and a piece of cloth or something under the belly
> http://94.100.113.184/354750001-354800000/354779301-354779400/354779376_5_LLYl.jpeg
> http://94.100.114.107/354650001-354700000/354696401-354696500/354696475_6_M1gk.jpeg


Yes, I have one like that too. 
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=settofly.jpg
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=indoorpractice.jpg

A friend with an industrial sewing machine made it for me, since I could not buy anything pre-made in his size. You could just copy the pattern of the one in the picture and have someone sew you one in your dog's size.


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## Lynn Cheffins

http://www.teeft.com/harness.htm


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## Jennifer Coulter

Lynn Cheffins said:


> http://www.teeft.com/harness.htm


Thanks for the link Lynn, I will save it. I had not seen this company before. Those types of harnesses are the fastest and easiest to get the dog in and out of. Those types of harnesses are widely used by some groups in the province, especailly for flying. This is a pic of the same type of harness, made a little lighter weight. 
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=January118.jpg

The company that was making them is no longer doing them however. 

I am still holding out hope on a fly/rappell ready harness that the dog can actually work in so you don't have to have various harnesses stashed at work, home, sar hall, helipad and so on. I think I am on my way to getting one, but pricing and sizing is still an issue. This big handsome boy is wearing one:

http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02761-1.jpg


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## Jason Hammel

Abseiling or rappeling - I spoke with the folks at Ruffwear.com and they said they are making a climbing rated harness this year. 

I didn't read through the entire thread but...my wife and I are rock climbers here in the states and we have alot of climbing harness manufacturers here. If you are in the UK you may want to contact somone like ben moon of Moonclimbing.com and see if he knows some harness makers. 

The people versions are fall rated but they are rating the stitching and materials. So if you stick with those and have a good pic of the design of what you want that may be the best way.


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## Maddy Freemont

You mean like this?


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## Jason Hammel

Just got a email back from ruffwear yesterday that on 10/01/2009 their climbing harness grade dog harness will be available they said it will only come in charcoal grey.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Jason Hammel said:


> Just got a email back from ruffwear yesterday that on 10/01/2009 their climbing harness grade dog harness will be available they said it will only come in charcoal grey.


I am know that they were working with a guy from our orginization on the idea of a climbing rated one as he had been modifying their webmaster harness for our use for a couple of years now. (I talked about it in this thread)

Do you have any pictures? There are some things I am hoping for....

I was really hoping it would come in pink for example:wink::wink:


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## Maddy Freemont

You may want to look at "K9 Storm"- a Canadian company that is putting out some really nice gear...


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## Jennifer Coulter

Maddy Freemont said:


> You may want to look at "K9 Storm"- a Canadian company that is putting out some really nice gear...


Maddy, they are well known to folks on this board and have been discussed in various threads before. I actually posted a pic of a GSD wearing a K9 Storm Harness in this thread.

http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02761-1.jpg


A great option if someone else is paying for it:wink:


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## Maddy Freemont

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Maddy, they are well known to folks on this board and have been discussed in various threads before. I actually posted a pic of a GSD wearing a K9 Storm Harness in this thread.
> 
> http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02761-1.jpg
> 
> 
> A great option if someone else is paying for it:wink:


 
Yep- you had to show the k9storm one! Didn't you? Where's the napkin to mop up my drool?

Not fair.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Okay, so the new Ruff Wear Doubleback Harness is out.

I think that this harness holds some promise for SAR dogs. For the OP...it comes in XS! There are very few harnesses of that type that fit a dog under 50 lbs.

It designed to have dogs hang in it. I like that the dog can wear it without the leg loops (they store in a pouch on the back), and you can take them out when needed.

Unlike a sling like harness, the dog can search and hang in the same harness. I am not sure, but it seems like the dog could even get used to walking with the leg loops on. Might be ideal if you are searching your dog roped up in cliffy areas, cravass, icefall and so on...

It only costs $125 dollars!

The downsides I see without having tried it yet, so take with a grain of salt...

I would have rathered have rated buckles like the ones on my modified harness I showed. Reason is that I like to remove my dog's harness when I kennel him. My dog has to work with a vest on as per the rules of my resort so I end up taking the vest on and off many times in one day. The double back buckles could be annoying and super time consuming, especially when it is done outside in the blowing snow and I would have to take my gloves off to put it on and off.

Secondly it is a lot of straps and such...this is a trade off because it allows a very nice fit to many different sizes of dogs. Not as slick as a nice custom fit unit such as the K9 Storm model however. The $1300 price difference might justify one to make some concessions if paying out of pocket!

They have a little movie on it.
http://www.ruffwear.com/DoubleBack-Harness?sc=2&category=24


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## Jason Hammel

LOL I just got my email from ruffwear that said the harness was out and then logged in to post it and of course jennifer is on her game already.

too funny

http://www.ruffwear.com/DoubleBack-Harness so I will finish my mission lol


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## Jason Hammel

Jennifer Coulter said:


> The downsides I see without having tried it yet, so take with a grain of salt...
> 
> I would have rathered have rated buckles like the ones on my modified harness I showed. Reason is that I like to remove my dog's harness when I kennel him. My dog has to work with a vest on as per the rules of my resort so I end up taking the vest on and off many times in one day. The double back buckles could be annoying and super time consuming, especially when it is done outside in the blowing snow and I would have to take my gloves off to put it on and off.
> 
> Secondly it is a lot of straps and such...this is a trade off because it allows a very nice fit to many different sizes of dogs. Not as slick as a nice custom fit unit such as the K9 Storm model however. The $1300 price difference might justify one to make some concessions if paying out of pocket!
> 
> They have a little movie on it.
> http://www.ruffwear.com/DoubleBack-Harness?sc=2&category=24


I hear ya about your specific concerns. Honestly if I were in your line of work I might pony up for the primo harness if finances allowed. Since adjusting webbing harness straps when they are iced over will be a recipe for the looney bin. However for the rest of us out there this particular harness will be great.

Question: When we go climbing naturally I wear my harness over my clothes since climbing naked is totally overated. Why couldn't the dog put this harness over the working ski resort vest?


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## Jennifer Coulter

Jason Hammel said:


> Question: When we go climbing naturally I wear my harness over my clothes since climbing naked is totally overated. Why couldn't the dog put this harness over the working ski resort vest?


The ski resort does not have their own vest per say. The dog just has to be vested and flying the CARDA flag. That is the orange harness you see on my dog in lots of pictures. It serves no other purpose other than to ID the dog as a working dog at my job to staff and public. I would just sew a CARDA patch onto whatever vest I am using. Two vests would be redundent if the vest I use is one the dog can actually work in. Like this patch sewn onto the modified webmaster harness is fine for him to wear at work:
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02869.jpg

Does that answer things? If I was just using a simple sling harness for flying or rapelling, I would leave his ID vest on underneath as is shown here.
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=indoorpractice.jpg

My goal is to only have one freaking harness though, instead of different ones for different applications that I need to carry around with me.


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## Jason Hammel

I totally understand Jenn. No wonder the 1300clams vest harness is sooo inticing. It's all sleek with no fluff bells and whistles. 

Now if you had the ruff wear harness for 125 and went to a good seamstress or better yet ( arc'teryx since they are a climbing harness manufacturer in BC ) and asked about stitching a vest to the harness in some way. If it worked and didn't look like butt then it may be a darn sight less than 1300 bucks.

Just thinking like a cheap old man.

Now in this pic http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02869.jpg it looks like his vest is a ruffwear vest? I can't tell what is written on the clip in point for the lead just under that patch.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Jason Hammel said:


> I totally understand Jenn. No wonder the 1300clams vest harness is sooo inticing. It's all sleek with no fluff bells and whistles.
> 
> Now if you had the ruff wear harness for 125 and went to a good seamstress or better yet ( arc'teryx since they are a climbing harness manufacturer in BC ) and asked about stitching a vest to the harness in some way. If it worked and didn't look like butt then it may be a darn sight less than 1300 bucks.
> 
> Just thinking like a cheap old man.
> 
> Now in this pic http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=DSC02869.jpg it looks like his vest is a ruffwear vest? I can't tell what is written on the clip in point for the lead just under that patch.


OH the internet is BRUTAL.

Yes that is a Ruff Wear vest you see in that picture. It is the one I spoke about modifying to be weight bearing a couple of times in this thread. If I chose to buy the Doubleback harness I would not need to take it to anyone to sew a vest onto it. I would just sew a CARDA patch onto it as I did with the one in the picture. Then he could wear it at work and it would ID him as a CARDA dog.

The only question is IF I would want to use that vest at work seeing as though it would be a pain in the ass to get on and off. If I wanted to I would modify the Doubleback harness by putting on the cobra buckles (pictured on my modified vest and elswear in this thread), instead of the doubleback buckles. I would also bar tack all the adjustments shut when I had the right fit. It would be superior to the Ruff Wear Webmaster harness I have modified in that it has the leg loops I could put on when needed. I may well do that if I can't get my hands on a custom vest.

CARDA's handler unifoms (as well as the RCMP and Parks Canada Avi Dog handler's Uniforms) are made by Arc'teryx. We are super pleased to be an a very short list of high end partners with them.
http://www.arcteryx.com/Partners.aspx
There was some discussion at one point about them making a dog harness for us, but it would be a lot of product develpoment for such a few dogs, I don't see it happening ever.


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## Jason Hammel

OK JENNIFER YOU OFFICIALLY SUCK don't talk to me anymore. Always going on and on about how cool your job is and how you have the best gear. Now the low blow being 'sponsored' by the porsche of the outdoor gear world. 

LOLOLOLOL 

I applied at to arc'teryx way back to be a product designer - I love their gear but their outerwear is the Shiznat - of course I can't quite take on the expense of 600 jackets and bibs b/c I live in Ga. and don't need them. Just all the hodge podge items I have been able to collect over the years from pro deals when I worked at REI and places like that. I love my marmot softshell tho and my NF nuptse down jacket for chillin around the campfire. 

So can you get me a discount:-\"???


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## Jason Hammel

I am not the best skier in the world but I am a quick study.

So are they hiring at CARDA?


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## Chris McDonald

Did you ever try and take a harness you like to a tack shop and see if they can make you one smaller?


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## Jennifer Coulter

Chris McDonald said:


> Did you ever try and take a harness you like to a tack shop and see if they can make you one smaller?



Not a tack shop, but a few harness I have was either made for me or modified by someone for me, I do have some friends with sewing skills. I have a plan for this winter....we will see if it works out or not.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Jason Hammel said:


> I am not the best skier in the world but I am a quick study.
> 
> So are they hiring at CARDA?


Jason, 

CARDA doesn't pay. It is a volunteer group.

Unless you have an employer paying for you to be a part of it...it is much cheaper just to buy the jacket 

Probably difficult to take your avalanche prerequisits and work on your skiing in your part of the country


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## Guest

Another option is the Eagle vest which is made in the USA and cheaper than the K9 storm vest. It allows for a much wider range of operational work than the K9 Storm which normally has to be modified as soon as you purchase it to do various things. 

Just throwing it out there....


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## Jennifer Coulter

Jody Butler said:


> Another option is the Eagle vest which is made in the USA and cheaper than the K9 storm vest. It allows for a much wider range of operational work than the K9 Storm which normally has to be modified as soon as you purchase it to do various things.
> 
> Just throwing it out there....




The Eagle vest is a very nice, CUSTOM vest. As an example, I like the backpack feature myself. It would be useful for me to be able to ski with my dog in that fashion, though I would likely wear him on the front as I carry a big pack on the back. 

I would agree it is a nice product...if you have a normal sized dog. If I can even remember the origional post in this thread, it is about fitting a vest for a small dog.

At this time, Eagle is not yet making one that will fit my 40 lbs dog.


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## Guest

Oh, didn't realize that was the problem, however I have sized a malinois @ 44lbs with no problem? Maybe body confirmation are diffferent. If I can figure how to post a picture, I would include some.... (?)


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## Jennifer Coulter

Jody...sending you a PM.


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## Jason Hammel

I tried to look for Eagle products but I only found the Military Merchandise - is that the same one or is it another company?


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