# Lazy dogs



## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Have you ever encountered lazy dogs? If so how do you deal with it? I got a dog he is 13 months and his bite work is pretty good. He bites hard and fast. Legs arms chest front and back. He has a pretty good routine. Then comes his ob. It is so flat and so boring. I have tried making him hungry and training. Locking him up and training. Training like its fun. He just comes along and its flat. Bite work he is in for sure.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Flat, boring, and correct? Or just flat and boring which inhibits being correct?

Sounds like there's a picture you want/expect to see that he's not giving. I assume that you've seen him present physical behaviors that represent what you want? If so, under what circumstances are these behaviors expressed?

Just thinking out loud…BTW no, I haven't encountered lazy dogs. But I have had dogs that I didn't initially know how to properly motivate. Same difference? Depends upon who you ask I guess.


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## Robin Van Hecke (Sep 7, 2009)

Don't know if you've tried this but try having a decoy on the field during obedience, I've seen dogs wake up doing this.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Robin Van Hecke said:


> Don't know if you've tried this but try having a decoy on the field during obedience, I've seen dogs wake up doing this.


That's exactly what I was getting at without saying as much. In other words I agree.  I was curious to see what he would post in terms of things he's tried and didn't want to assume that he hasn't tried this already as this is a relative go to staple (at least I assumed it was).


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

What breed of dog? Did he come with obedience work done already? Did the previous trainer grind all the fun out of obedience?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just a couple of thoughts.

Lack of motivation or desire based on low level reward.

Poor handler timing.

To much compulsion.

Overall low drive in the dog.


"Training like it's fun". In what way? Are you using correction only? Marker training?

"I have tried making him hungry and training". Unless the dog has strong food drive this isn't going to work.

You said his bite work is good. Have you tried using a tug for reward? 

Are you training on your own or do you train with a club that could give you a bit of feedback? 

Video would be great for helping those here to help with the problem.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re : "Have you ever encountered lazy dogs?"

interesting problem Daniel

when i think back over the years about "lazy", my first impression is either old, or overweight and lethargic, etc 

since the dog is young and does well in bite work, over confidence comes to mind

the only young dog i was around that acted similar to what you are describing was a rott about a year and a half old
- very confident, nothing rattled it but it liked to bite a lot more than it liked to listen to the owner. OB was terrible. i saw the dog often and really wanted to train with the owner but she never signed up even tho she always complained how difficult it was to take the dog out. 
- since i wasn't scared of it she let me play around with it and there was nothing that dog wouldn't/couldn't do for a tug fight. it was like she treated me like a free baby sitter for her unruly little kid 
- i liked the dog so much i asked if she would sell it to me if it became too much a problem
- people around her were scared since she always had that big tug that she would use and the dog would rip into it. the dog was very pushy of course but she put up with it and always gave it what it wanted. but the dog had zero aggression towards people or other dogs around her
- eventually she stopped coming around

wish i had gotten to work with it. maybe i woulda had the same problem 

probably not a good comparison, but it made me remember and was wondering if the confidence factor could be a part of what you are dealing with ??


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Have you ever encountered lazy dogs? If so how do you deal with it? I got a dog he is 13 months and his bite work is pretty good. He bites hard and fast. Legs arms chest front and back. He has a pretty good routine. Then comes his ob. It is so flat and so boring. I have tried making him hungry and training. Locking him up and training. Training like its fun. He just comes along and its flat. Bite work he is in for sure.


I'd mix up training and have a decoy on the field. Do the hurdle, send for a bite recall, do positions, send for bite, Send out recall to decoy for bite. If he's good at and likes the bite work ? Give him the idea that obedience leads to (reward for) bite work.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

makes obvious sense Thomas
reward with the highest value reward

also seems like it would be a royal pita to need a bite suit and or sleeve standing by to do positions //lol//

but to follow that train of thought ... specifically how would you fade the reward and could this technique be done solo ?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Have you ever encountered lazy dogs? If so how do you deal with it? I got a dog he is 13 months and his bite work is pretty good. He bites hard and fast. Legs arms chest front and back. He has a pretty good routine. Then comes his ob. It is so flat and so boring. I have tried making him hungry and training. Locking him up and training. Training like its fun. He just comes along and its flat. Bite work he is in for sure.


How long have you had him? What breed? Did you see him working OB with previous handler? 13 months is still really young, was he tamped down too hard by previous handler being that he's still a pup or has he had minimal ob and this is a drive issue? Do you have this dog in for training or is he now your dog? 

If your pup, and you aren't in a hurry, I'd think about dropping all formal OB for a while and just do a lot of play behaviors with him, then gradually add a minute or so of OB when he's having fun, then switch back to play before he drops his drive again, and then stretch it out, longer periods of working in drive during OB. 

What are you using during OB - ball tug or ?? What did his previous handler use?


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

He is my dog from a puppy. He is a mal. I have done all his work. I do train with corrections. I use a tug a ball and I have started jumping him for a sleeve. I try to keep him excited but he just get lazy after a bit. I dont have another decoy cuz I am the decoy. My wife handles him in all the bite work. I will try and get a video but its tough when there are only 2 of us training. I do agree I get in a bit of a hurry and expect a certain look. He is excited and loaded in his bitework. When I have him in a down before an attack he is ready to go. His Defense of handler he is stalking back and is ready for any reason to go. His tail is up and he is having a good time. maybe it will just take some time for him to start to understand the routine. 



> the only young dog i was around that acted similar to what you are describing was a rott about a year and a half old
> - very confident, nothing rattled it but it liked to bite a lot more than it liked to listen to the owner.


As a young puppy this was him all the time. Nothing really phases him. He doesn't get stressed out but he doesn't really get excited either.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Our younger GSD was similar but I wouldn't call it "lazy". His bitework was excellent but in obedience he'd even look up at a crow flying overhead instead of paying attention.

We didn't do much about it apart from continuing obedience and in a short time he became interested and started to work well. One of my colleagues said her Mal was just the same at first.


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