# Raising Meat Birds



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Wasn't sure where to put this (the lounge vs here), but I'll stick it here in case people are interested in trying this out.  Last year, our city decided change the livestock ordinance and allows up to 6 chickens per residence in the city limits. Most people seem to be doing layers, but I don't eat all that many eggs, so I am trying meat birds. I picked up 6 Cornish cross chicks and 2 Ameraucana layer pullet chicks (probably mutt Easter eggers, but I don't show so I don't care) from the farm and home store today. Went two over in case a couple don't make it. Here's the little peeps already making themselves at home.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100726113025630&set=vb.15907030&type=2&theater

The Cornish crosses are the hybrid breed that are ready for processing in 6-8 weeks. They'll stay inside either in my house or my garage until they are mostly feathered out and it's warm enough. I made a brooder out of a big Rubbermaid tub I used to store bags of dog food in and cut an opening on the top. I used a soldering iron to poke holes in the top of the box and used zip ties through the holes to secure a spare piece of hardware cloth I had leftover from another project. I can take a picture of the box if anyone is interested. I had a dome reflector and red bulb from my reptiles. Got a bag of the Nutrena non-medicated chick starter/grower (they don't seem to carry the organic feed around here, so will start with the non-medicated unless I get ambitious and want to make my own). The feeder and waterer were $2.50 a piece. So overall investment for stuff I had to buy, including the chicks and feed, so far is about $20. I pay around $8-10 for a pasture raised bird at the farmers market, so if I break remotely even, this will be an interesting experiment. 

We have a 6 foot wood privacy fence in the backyard and several dog kennel panels that haven't been used in years that I'd like to make a coop of. I might also get ambitious and try building a small chicken tractor to move each day around on the grass. I'll do the slaughtering and butchering myself. I'm sure the dogs will enjoy that day. They'll probably get the necks, backs, by products, feet, and so on, so not much waste. 

As an interesting aside, I have a thermometer gun I use for my reptile enclosures that spot tests the temperature. You aim it with a laser on the gun. I was using it in the brooder to test the heat under the bulb and a couple of the chicks started to chase the laser. Pretty entertaining.


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

I would like the legs please. \\/


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Anyone who wants to come over for Sunday roast chicken is welcome. I am not normally this immodest, but I do make a really excellent roast chicken. Or on the grill. Train first, eat after! =P~ Dogs can have the scraps!


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Wasn't sure where to put this (the lounge vs here), but I'll stick it here in case people are interested in trying this out.  Last year, our city decided change the livestock ordinance and allows up to 6 chickens per residence in the city limits. Most people seem to be doing layers, but I don't eat all that many eggs, so I am trying meat birds. I picked up 6 Cornish cross chicks and 2 Ameraucana layer pullet chicks (probably mutt Easter eggers, but I don't show so I don't care) from the farm and home store today. Went two over in case a couple don't make it. Here's the little peeps already making themselves at home.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100726113025630&set=vb.15907030&type=2&theater
> 
> ...


Do you find yours do best on 2 meals a day? I had a lower death rate when I raised them like that. One meal lasts four hours then a break then feed them again when I get home. I found it too be a balancing act with the cornish crosses too much food they, die too little they die. I had the best results with Salatin's methods. Sometimes I raised them inside with success too. I never have raised them down here been meaning to try it though.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Ben Thompson said:


> Do you find yours do best on 2 meals a day? I had a lower death rate when I raised them like that. One meal lasts four hours then a break then feed them again when I get home. I found it too be a balancing act with the cornish crosses too much food they, die too little they die. I had the best results with Salatin's methods. Sometimes I raised them inside with success too. I never have raised them down here been meaning to try it though.


I've heard that especially once they start getting close to finishing, 12 hours with free choice feed, 12 hours off (with access to grass to forage) is a way to limit heart disease and orthopedic problems. Otherwise I'm hearing the Cornish crosses will just about fall asleep in the feed bin.  They are already bigger at day 1 than the two Easter egger girls I got. I chose that breed since they are not huge egg producers, which I wouldn't use anyways. We don't get taught a whole ton of poultry management in vet school (the major diseases yes, husbandry not so much) probably because they assume if you want to be a poultry vet, you were probably an animal science major.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Have they been sexed? Most of the cities/townships/etc that are relaxing laws on having chickens have rules that say no roosters.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The Easter egger layers are supposed to be sexed as girls. The Cornish crosses are straight run (can be either). They will be butchered before they start crowing, so it doesn't matter either way. From what I understand, you pretty much have to process them absolutely no later than about 11-12 weeks as they start suffering from growing so fast. If one of the layer girls is actually a boy (not uncommon), I may try surgically castrating them to make a capon or simply butchering them as well if they start crowing like a roo. I hear capons are quite delicious.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

a little off topic but since Maren mentioned that laser thermometer i was wondering if there are reliable non invasive ones you can use on dogs now ... i've seen one that you can aim near their rear but wondered about the reliability of the readings....would be great for some dogs tho that don't like their hershey highway invaded


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Love raising chickens (for eggs). Hate plucking them though. 

We raise rabbits for meat because they are faster and easier to process, grass fed and we like the meat. 

Right now we have about 50 chickens for eggs (Marans, Ameraucanas, E.Eggers mainly) and about 50 rabbits (NZW & Rex). 

I use a few bantams hens for incubating and then put the chixs in a commercial brooder. 

Rabbits can be truely grass fed since they don't need the protein content chickens need. You have to either give chickens access to bugs, small rodents, etc. or go with the soy protein in chicken feeds. One can forage for rabbits (grasses, broad leaf weeds..).

Chickens are more expensive to feed as it's hard to get away from commercial bagged feed. Equipment set up is cheaper with Chixs.

Rabbits are more sensitive to high temps so in many parts of the country one must have cooling system...misters and cages which are expensive to set up. Rabbits are quieter than chickens (it's not just the roos..hens talk too).

There are trade offs depending on your situation. Some people could never bring themselves to kill and eat/feed a rabbit, but have an easier time with poultry. 

I think it's great that more folks are raising their own food. We've done it for years. I was quite surprised last month when I sold off some of my extra laying hens the volume of calls I got to purchase them. We had about 20 to sell off (rotating stock) and I could of sold 100 if I'd of had them.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Debbie Skinner said:


> There are trade offs depending on your situation. Some people could never bring themselves to kill and eat/feed a rabbit, but have an easier time with poultry.


Rabbits are vermin here so I have an easier time shooting them. Killing a chicken - I still dont think I could do it. Using ones bare hands to wring their neck would probably give me nightmares LOL


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Sara Waters said:


> Rabbits are vermin here so I have an easier time shooting them. Killing a chicken - I still dont think I could do it. Using ones bare hands to wring their neck would probably give me nightmares LOL


Actually hit the rabbit on the back of the head with a blow hard enough to seperate the head from the spinal column. There's a tool that you can buy too if you lack the skill to do it this way ( therabbitwringer.com )

Rex or NZW rabbit is no more vermin than a malinois is a wolf.

Chicken - we cut the head off with a hatchet on a cutting block.

With domestic raised animals for meat..only thing we shoot is a goat, lamb -- the side of the head "temple".


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Maren - would be interested to know if you find an affordable protein source for the chixs other than commerical feed containing soy. I would love to be able to feed our chickens something like fish meal as the protein source instead of soy protein. I can't afford to feed the birds something in the cost range of Innova EVO. ](*,)

We have organic feed in CA - Modesto Feed Co. It's quite pricey and is organic but still soy protein based.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I came across that company when I was searching for possible feeds. It looks like they do have a soy-free organic feed, but I'm reading from folks on some of the chicken forums that it's really expensive and you have to usually either order it in or have a couple people go in on a pallet together.

http://www.modestomilling.com/soy-free-poultry.html

If I was really ambitious, I'd grow my own grain and grind and make my own feed. I don't think that's going to be practical right now, but what I'll probably have them do is range around in the fenced backyard during the day (when the dogs aren't out) and put them in the coop overnight. Or alternatively make a small tractor for them during the day. 

How I was taught to slaughter was hold them in your left arm (non dominant) like a football near your body and then do the cervical dislocation with your right hand. Then hang them upside down and cut the head off or just the vessels in the neck. I've seen the killing cone method too and it seems if you cervically dislocate them first, they don't flap and move around quite as much as if you just bleed them out. But I know both ways work fine. Have not tried the hatchet method. I'd have to be pretty sure of my aim first.  If anyone wants me to either photograph or videotape how I do it or how I butcher (particularly for meat for the dogs), I can, though there are quite a few videos on Youtube.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I came across that company when I was searching for possible feeds. It looks like they do have a soy-free organic feed, but I'm reading from folks on some of the chicken forums that it's really expensive and you have to usually either order it in or have a couple people go in on a pallet together.
> 
> http://www.modestomilling.com/soy-free-poultry.html


The Modesto feed is just too expensive. Protein from peas..very similar to the game bird and high octaine feed we get..not organic and I have a pan of d.e. seperate that they dust in and peck at if they want. I pay about $18/#50 bag. I believe Modesto feed is about double that. 

Here's a link with recipes to make your own chicken feed. http://www.lionsgrip.com/recipes.html 

Part I liked was the idea of using the cement mixer to mix the ingredients. I have mixed crumble w/high octane and game mix. Haven't made any poultry feed from scratch yet though (no pun intended).


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Actually hit the rabbit on the back of the head with a blow hard enough to seperate the head from the spinal column. There's a tool that you can buy too if you lack the skill to do it this way ( therabbitwringer.com )
> 
> Rex or NZW rabbit is no more vermin than a malinois is a wolf.
> 
> ...




I wrang a giant roosters neck once to feed it to a snake....or so I thought...he played dead for a while, then got up and shook it off...


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Actually hit the rabbit on the back of the head with a blow hard enough to seperate the head from the spinal column. There's a tool that you can buy too if you lack the skill to do it this way ( therabbitwringer.com )
> 
> Rex or NZW rabbit is no more vermin than a malinois is a wolf.
> 
> ...


 
We have thousands of wild rabbits that destroy habitat and cause huge land degradation issues. My neighbours do a rabbit shoot every now and then just to try and keep them under control. There is also the myxamotisis virus that was released and is carried by mosquitoes and calici virus carried by flies to try and control the huge populations. Vaccinating pet rabbits is not allowed so everything has to be mosquito and fly proofed if you want to raise domestic rabbits or they can die.

Joby - your story is exactly what I fear if I attempted to kill a chicken.


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

Bob Scott said:


> Have they been sexed? Most of the cities/townships/etc that are relaxing laws on having chickens have rules that say no roosters.


These cornish crosses will be dead in 8 weeks or whenever they lose the ability to walk which is unfortunately pretty common with their rapid growth. Crowing won't be too much of a problem. 

Rabbits really do better on pellets as a primary with hay as a side. Raised them for years and years and imo the need for wet green grass is a human issue as I just found it a transfer point for pathogens from wild critters and a giver of the goopy poops. A good meat breed is 8 - 10 weeks to butcher weight. 

As far as the best ways to off a rabbit or a chicken - broomsticking (youtube if you wish) I always found more than ideal with bunnies and hard to F up, and making a butcher cone out of a milk jug and simply slitting the jugular I found best with chickens. They bleed out so neatly, quickly, and it results in a better carcass IMO. The best thing I can tell you about making butchering go well is get a good knife and a set of poultry shears - too many people butcher with crap knives and it's a royal PITA..


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Sara Waters said:


> We have thousands of wild rabbits that destroy habitat and cause huge land degradation issues. My neighbours do a rabbit shoot every now and then just to try and keep them under control. There is also the myxamotisis virus that was released and is carried by mosquitoes and calici virus carried by flies to try and control the huge populations. Vaccinating pet rabbits is not allowed so everything has to be mosquito and fly proofed if you want to raise domestic rabbits or they can die.
> 
> Joby - your story is exactly what I fear if I attempted to kill a chicken.


There are many examples of "wild" hogs destroying habitat, etc. Again we are talking about domestic livestock raised w/good animal husbandry.

Chickens - this is why we use a chopping block for poultry. Head off = dead for sure. Rabbits - break their necks with a blow to head.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Melissa Thom said:


> These cornish crosses will be dead in 8 weeks or whenever they lose the ability to walk which is unfortunately pretty common with their rapid growth. Crowing won't be too much of a problem.
> 
> Rabbits really do better on pellets as a primary with hay as a side. Raised them for years and years and imo the need for wet green grass is a human issue as I just found it a transfer point for pathogens from wild critters and a giver of the goopy poops. A good meat breed is 8 - 10 weeks to butcher weight.
> 
> As far as the best ways to off a rabbit or a chicken - broomsticking (youtube if you wish) I always found more than ideal with bunnies and hard to F up, and making a butcher cone out of a milk jug and simply slitting the jugular I found best with chickens. They bleed out so neatly, quickly, and it results in a better carcass IMO. The best thing I can tell you about making butchering go well is get a good knife and a set of poultry shears - too many people butcher with crap knives and it's a royal PITA..


Raised rabbits since early 1990s (Commercial Whites, NZWs, CA and Rex). Have done strictly pelleted ration and also have done foraged grasses/weeds w/pelleted ration (current way). We keep weight records (weaned, @ butcher time) and litter sizes on all our breeding stock. We strive for 5-6lbs at butcher weight..not 8 weeks but 10weeks with the Standard Rexes. For the Commercial Whites that wt at 8 weeks. The Commercial Standard when selling rabbits is 8-12 weeks and 5-6lbs. Depends too on litter size. Some keep 7, others 8 and others 9. There is a 10,000 hole rabbitry in Ramona, CA that keeps 9 kits/litter. It's where we've gotten some of our Comm. Whites from. 

Foraging reduces feed costs for us by about 1/2. No illness or loose stools. Our rabbits are raised in hanging cages outdoor with a lot of airflow and in 3 seperate areas. Overcrowding, indoor setups and keeping a lot of rabbit in close proximity to each other like if we kept 50 rabbits in one area will lead to health issues much quicker than green grass ever will.

Also, depends on Granted Pellet w/soy gets them to market weight a little faster. That doesn't equal "rabbits do better on it". It's just like saying a dry kibble is better than raw. Or horses do better on hay than on pasture. Sure a person that doesn't give a balanced ration can cause harm. However, giving a fresh balanced ration to animals is not inferior to commercial feed. I prefer to grass feed the animals we eat and a little slower growth is okay by me. Our chickens are slower maturing as well since we do not raise hybrids.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Melissa Thom said:


> The best thing I can tell you about making butchering go well is get a good knife and a set of poultry shears - too many people butcher with crap knives and it's a royal PITA..


This is definitely true. I love pathology and I really enjoy doing necropsies. Yeah, I'm weird. ;-) I'd want to be a pathologist if I was smarter and if I liked microscopes more. We likewise mostly used poultry shears when doing avian necropsies on chickens, turkeys, and other fowl that'd come in. So I am a big fan of a well sharpened knife. You can do a whole necropsy on a cow except for the brain with a good knife. I need to have mine sent off for professional sharpening as they are due. I will probably use a scalpel blade to cut the throat as that's about as sharp as you can get and then use my trusty Cutco knives for the rest.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I wrang a giant roosters neck once to feed it to a snake....or so I thought...he played dead for a while, then got up and shook it off...


bummer. chop'n block all the way.  

We don't have to kill chickens often as ours are layers.

and we have the bantam hens that hatch eggs for us. They will sit on anything.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Foraging reduces feed costs for us by about 1/2. No illness or loose stools. Our rabbits are raised in hanging cages outdoor with a lot of airflow and in 3 seperate areas. Overcrowding, indoor setups and keeping a lot of rabbit in close proximity to each other like if we kept 50 rabbits in one area will lead to health issues much quicker than green grass ever will.
> 
> Also, depends on Granted Pellet w/soy gets them to market weight a little faster. That doesn't equal "rabbits do better on it". It's just like saying a dry kibble is better than raw. Or horses do better on hay than on pasture. Sure a person that doesn't give a balanced ration can cause harm. However, giving a fresh balanced ration to animals is not inferior to commercial feed. I prefer to grass feed the animals we eat and a little slower growth is okay by me. Our chickens are slower maturing as well since we do not raise hybrids.


I don't have experience with rabbits for production, just pet rabbits. But for pet rabbits, I definitely recommend to owners doing almost solely good fresh timothy hay and fresh veggies and very little if any pellets. I recommend that they can graze them outside supervised in a covered exercise pen or a wire dog crate with the bottom removed as long as their lawn has not been treated with chemicals.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I don't have experience with rabbits for production, just pet rabbits. But for pet rabbits, I definitely recommend to owners doing almost solely good fresh timothy hay and fresh veggies and very little if any pellets. I recommend that they can graze them outside supervised in a covered exercise pen or a wire dog crate with the bottom removed as long as their lawn has not been treated with chemicals.


I like with this lady has to say in her article "Plight of the Caged Rabbit" makes some good points about quality of life and with a little effort the owner can make their rabbits lives better. 

http://www.khrexrabbits.com/caged.html

You know there is one brand of pellets that contains ethoxiquin (sp?) that I came across when I got back into raising rabbits. 

Mine love Mulberry leaves and the small twigs as well as the horsetails that grow around our koi pond. I try to forage a variety of grasses and broad leaf plants. Oh and they love the pears from our tree.

I just remembered that our neighbor who is the 4-H chicken leader was telling me about the varies kids raising cornish-x for the meat pens at the fairs. Each in the group fed a different feed and had a different strategy in growing out their birds. I'll ask him which brought them to market the fastest and most uniform. One group of birds at least was fed a homemade diet that included peanuts, peas.. Others were fed commercial feeds of various brands.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Debbie Skinner said:


> There are many examples of "wild" hogs destroying habitat, etc. Again we are talking about domestic livestock raised w/good animal husbandry.
> 
> Chickens - this is why we use a chopping block for poultry. Head off = dead for sure. Rabbits - break their necks with a blow to head.


Yes I know, I thought you thought that I was shooting domestic rabbits as a way to kill them when in fact it was wild rabbits.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Sara Waters said:


> Yes I know, I thought you thought that I was shooting domestic rabbits as a way to kill them when in fact it was wild rabbits.


No, no way. I thought you were saying they were basically the same thing..vermin ](*,) I probably misunderstood.

No, no one would want to bite down on buckshot if they didn't have too!:-D


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Debbie Skinner said:


> No, no way. I thought you were saying they were basically the same thing..vermin ](*,) I probably misunderstood.
> 
> No, no one would want to bite down on buckshot if they didn't have too!:-D


The joys of internet conversations LOL. although I am probably more desensitised to killing rabbits than chickens, I still cant imagine doing either myself in a domestic setting.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I started working in my uncle's poultry/produce store when I was 10. On of my most memorable "events" was a chicken, after it lost it's head, took off into the front part of the store and did it's last happy dance in front of half a dozen customers. Of course, being low on the totum pole it was my job to clean up.
I HATED geese and turkeys during the holidays. Mean, evil bassids!!


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> I started working in my uncle's poultry/produce store when I was 10. On of my most memorable "events" was a chicken, after it lost it's head, took off into the front part of the store and did it's last happy dance in front of half a dozen customers. !


Yes I recall a farmer I was working for dispatching about 10 birds in swift succession this way. There was a flurry of activity and spurting blood going in all directions. Not an experience I am in any hurry to repeat. I was 18 and it has probably scarred me for life in terms of dispatching chickens LOL. In biochem we had to dispatch rats. The med students in particular were a bloodthirsty lot and had no problem cracking their heads on the bench.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I used to use the killing cone method.. there is no chance of them running around or coming back to life using that method. .looking back I used to cut their windpipe, so I was wrong on that part. You're only suppose to cut the arteries if you want to get the most blood drainage. I'd show the youtube of it but I don't want to gross people out. It sounds like I am describing a horror movie hehehehhe


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I don't have experience with rabbits for production, just pet rabbits. But for pet rabbits, I definitely recommend to owners doing almost solely good fresh timothy hay and fresh veggies and very little if any pellets. I recommend that they can graze them outside supervised in a covered exercise pen or a wire dog crate with the bottom removed as long as their lawn has not been treated with chemicals.


Maren what basis do you give for this? I'm just curious how much rabbit experience you have.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Along with the usual vet school curriculum on pocket pets and lab animal medicine and continuing education at various conferences on rabbits and other pocket pets/exotics, I had my own rabbits (Brego a mini rex doe and Thor an English spot mix buck) as pets about 5 years ago. They got free choice fresh timothy hay (there was a local farmer who repackaged his hay for those purposes and they sold it at one of the local independent pet supply stores), mixed salad greens and other veggies, and just a very small handful of pellets. I don't like going overboard on the alfalfa that's usually used in pellets. Good quality timothy and "botanical" hay is my preference.


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

I thought I'd check as my feed training was a bit more agricultural rather than pet stock not that there is much difference. When someone mentioned it's like saying grass is bad for horses I had a good chuckle over it because pasture here during times of the year (spring and sometimes fall) causes founder and often times we had to pull a very disappointed pony into the round pen until the rains stopped, pastures are also deficient in essential minerals (you must supplement horses, cows, goats), and the nutritional value of hay timothy or otherwise can vary wildly from cut to cut. That is the pellet advantage - you have a pretty good idea of what you're getting in the bag. Raw feeding dogs IMO to an extent is quite a bit easier because at least you're pretty sure that the animal your feeding to another animal was healthy enough to get by USDA inspection and get to butcher weight. I have a hard time looking at pasture and telling the same as carrying capacity acre to acre can be vastly different - usually we sampled and sent hay to the WSU lab to make sure we were getting the proper nutrition we needed on the dairy and for hay competitions at the local fairs. 

Anyway, if what works for you works for you go with my blessing but for me pellets with some hay on the side was where it's at with the bunnies.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

It is quite geographically and seasonally dependent, this is true. I don't do much of anything on horses (maybe vaccines for friends, that's about it), but apparently the grass around in central Missouri is outstanding for feeding and finishing grass feeding beef cattle relatively quickly, if people are interested in doing that. But it is often too rich for some horses (especially the obese minis, like you mentioned with the pony, which makes them get laminitis and metabolic syndrome), depending on what was previously planted. But even the early/mid spring clover may be too much like rocket fuel with cattle and they'll bloat as well if the producer just turns them out with no transition. Like I said, I don't mind a small amount of pellets, but a lot of the newbie bunny owners that feed nothing but pellets (especially alfalfa based since alfalfa is typically cheaper) and some hay that may be sitting in the Walmart pet aisle for months will make some rabbits get overweight with possible urinary issues as well. I like to see the bulk of the diet be good quality timothy and botanical hay with some fresh greens (obviously not iceberg lettuce), a little bit of fruits and veggies, and real easy on the pellets. And letting them graze when it's warm in a safe and controlled area.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Anyone who wants to come over for Sunday roast chicken is welcome. I am not normally this immodest, but I do make a really excellent roast chicken. Or on the grill. Train first, eat after! =P~ Dogs can have the scraps!


Now that is a hard to refuse offer, nothing like a well cooked bird! Would be there in a heartbeat if we were closer.


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## Mike Ivancevic (Feb 8, 2012)

I used to keep Rhode Island Reds. When it was feeding time, I gave them Purina Layena feed as well as any and all lefotovers in their feed pan, and I also opened their fenced in area's door and they would free range feed as well. I caught a couple of them one day tearing a mole and a mouse apart. They would eat any and all bugs/frogs/rodents that werent quick enough to get out of their way. I would also supplement their diet with some calcium powder you add to their feed. I didnt raise them to feed to the dogs, although I most definitely could have gotten my 2 dogs at the time fed on 1 bird per day. They got to be pretty big and healthy birds who would lay about 7 eggs a day, not bad for 5 birds. I would also feed these eggs, shell and all, to the dogs. There is such a difference between these kind of eggs and the bleached white ones from the store. The yolk color was a darker orange(not red like in blood eggs), the whites werent as gritty and the shells were stronger. I will definitely be raising birds again when I get a bit further out into the country. Goats and rabbits as well for feed.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike Ivancevic said:


> I used to keep Rhode Island Reds. When it was feeding time, I gave them Purina Layena feed as well as any and all lefotovers in their feed pan, and I also opened their fenced in area's door and they would free range feed as well. I caught a couple of them one day tearing a mole and a mouse apart. They would eat any and all bugs/frogs/rodents that werent quick enough to get out of their way. I would also supplement their diet with some calcium powder you add to their feed. I didnt raise them to feed to the dogs, although I most definitely could have gotten my 2 dogs at the time fed on 1 bird per day. They got to be pretty big and healthy birds who would lay about 7 eggs a day, not bad for 5 birds. I would also feed these eggs, shell and all, to the dogs. There is such a difference between these kind of eggs and the bleached white ones from the store. The yolk color was a darker orange(not red like in blood eggs), the whites werent as gritty and the shells were stronger. I will definitely be raising birds again when I get a bit further out into the country. Goats and rabbits as well for feed.



As a kid working at my uncle's poultry and produce store the old ladies coming in "demanded" the brown eggs for cooking. More minerals, better protein, better tasting then todays store bought.
Even now we try and get eggs from the guy we get our beef from. His chickens and beef cattle are all free range (cattle) or mostly yard fed (chickens) .


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

One week update on the chicks...was a very nice sunny day today, so I put the chicks outside for the first time for about an hour to enjoy the warmer weather. The Cornish crosses are already significant larger than the Easter eggers, maybe by about 30-40% at least. No losses so far. Also used the opportunity to start training the dogs to leave them alone (not that the two will be out together unsupervised). The wire cage is just the top of a small animal cage I used to have for rabbits/guinea pigs, etc. Lily the more trained herding dog just ignored them. Arya the pup was somewhat interested, but then wandered away. Fawkes is stress panting a bit (and it was a bit warm out), probably trying to decide which one looks the tastiest...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100735835646420&set=vb.15907030&type=2&theater


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The Cornish crosses will be going outside for good on Wednesday or so, as they have just about outgrown their brooder box. They are about 3 weeks old today (give or take a day). I might wait another day or so on the Easter eggers, who are probably not even half the size of the Cornish crosses. Since it's been quite warm, they have had little trial times of going out in the yard for 2-3 hours in the backyard. They graduated from the wire cage top in the video above to a XL wire dog crate with the tray removed. Today I put them in my small garden plot because I didn't use it last year in case we moved (which we didn't) so they could start tilling and fertilizing. It is quite interesting just sitting in a lawn chair watching them peck and scratch. The most annoying thing about keeping them inside in a brooder box is having to check their water many times throughout the day, since they big enough to knock it over and the wood pellet bedding gets kicked in. Outside will be better! Fawkes does help me herd them a little bit, from behind a barrier though. Not quite brave enough to try it out in the open yet.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

So we had our first accidental death on the Jones family homestead. I was putting up the gate for their coop (basically 6 foot by 6 foot dog kennel with a tarp over the top) and the gate accidentally fell on one of the meat birds, fatally injuring it. :-( It was a little too small for us humans to eat, so the dogs got an early lunch. I took some pictures, but this whole process was kind of on the fly since they are not supposed to be ready to eat for another 3ish weeks. 

Warning: graphic photos!

I cut it throat with a scalpel blade after breaking its neck, then hung it with a zip tie upside down to bleed out outside.










Next, I got my supplies ready. I got a big stock pot with some water set to heat up with a little Dawn dish soap added in and some newspaper with my knife and kitchen shears.










I rinsed the bird off first in warm water to remove any obvious dirt and then dunked it in the scalding hot (but not boiling) water for about 30-45 seconds. 









Next I started plucking, getting the wing and tail feathers relatively clean first since they are the hardest to pluck. I didn't worry too much about getting every feather off since it was going to the dogs and not to my table. In this photo, you can see the still very full crop on the bird's right side (the photo's left) towards the neck as a big bubble under the skin. Normally you would want to fast the birds for 12-24 hours before hand as it makes for a cleaner butchering process, but I didn't have the luxury of this.










Next I cut the head off with the knife and made a cut under the skin of the neck towards the crop, not wanting to break into it. I separated it out from the underlying tissue with my fingers. I went as far down into the base of the neck as I could and cut the crop out and threw it away. It was still a rather sludgy mix of water, feed, and a little grass.










The feet were then removed and it was time to make the cut into the abdominal cavity. Turn the bird on its breast and you look for the bird's cloaca (the equivalent of a mammal's rectum) and cut between that and the tail using the shears to expose the abdominal cavity. Don't cut too deep because you don't want to cut into the intestines and make a mess. 










Then after you make your two cuts, you reach in (I prefer wearing exam gloves, but many use their bare hands) and use your fingers to gently tease the guts away from their attachments and pull the whole thing (from esophagus to cloaca) out. Then you can reach in a bit further and find what feels like a firm grape and pull out the heart. The guts with the gizzard at the "front end" of the GI tract and the intestines at the "rear end" of the digestive tract are shown on the left and right side of the picture respectively. I already fed the liver and heart to the dogs, so those are not in the picture.










To butcher the rest of the carcass for the dogs, I use the shears to cut the breast straight up the middle and butterfly it as shown. The kidneys are shown with the two white arrows. Then I make a cut along each side of the neck and spine to make a separate piece. For large dogs, that's basically it.










I then divided up the carcass and the guts into three portions for each of the three dogs outside. Interestingly, Lily my female did not want to eat any of it, where she has had plenty of raw before? Not sure why. The cats also didn't want any liver. Oh well, Fawkes and Arya didn't complain. Here's Arya eating outside. Then there's Fawkes enjoying some fresh salad after his chicken since our grass is way too long with all the rain we've had. ;-)


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Is there a reason why you waist time doing this for a dog when you could have just thrown it to a dog as it was? Or if you really felt you must share you could have just swung a machete twice? Just wondering? 
I just never seen anyone go through this to feed a dog?


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

We used to just feed them whole with the feathers and everything - but if you are in the 'burbs the feathers are messy.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Chris, three dogs + one bird = fight. So no, I'm not going to give one bird whole to split among three dogs. The photos and descriptions are meant to be educational for those who have thought about raising and feeding* real *whole prey raised humanely and how to process it, but maybe who don't come from a farm background and who have never done it. It is quite easy to raise chickens in your backyard even in the suburbs, so if people have the interest and want to know where their own and their dog's food comes from, it's a great beginner project. 

When the birds are old enough to process, they will be primarily for our food, not the dogs, but as we do not eat the necks, backs, guts, liver, heart, head, feet, etc, it will go to them. Pretty much the only thing that will be waste is the feathers. Lynn is right. I live right inside the city limits on about a 1/3 of an acre. I am trying to keep this low profile and chicken feathers blowing all over the place may not be appreciated. 

PS: my machetes are for the zombies. :-$


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> The photos and descriptions are meant to be educational for those who have thought about raising and feeding* real *whole prey raised humanely and how to process it,
> 
> You wouldn’t just take its head off and give it to the dog? Again just wondering , Im just to lazy to do this to a bird for a dog.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Apparently you are also too lazy to read. Go back and read my response.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Well, I caught that


Maren Bell Jones said:


> *they will be primarily for our food, not the dogs,* but as we do not eat the necks, backs, guts, liver, heart, head, feet, etc, it will go to them.


 and I'm envious.

:lol:

I copyedited GTR Poultry last month, BTW, and some of your pics are as good as the book pics. 



I really am envious, BTW. I live just a little too close to downtown, unfortunately.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Apparently you are also too lazy to read. Go back and read my response.


Never seen to many feathers left behind when dog were done.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, I'm going to have to get some more chicks. What was likely a raccoon(s) dug under the main 6 foot wood privacy fence AND the 6 foot dog kennel enclosure and got all 7 of the chickens. No blood or bodies and just a few stray feathers. The other two chicks still in the brooder are salmon Faverolles pullets, which are a rare dual purpose bird. They are a bit more costly than the feed store chicks, so may get some hotwire and/or set traps and/or have my dog out at night with them before letting them leave the brooder. The enclosure is probably only about 20 yards from the house. Surprised the dogs didn't alert on something digging under the two fences as my dog will let you know if a butterfly flaps down the street... :-k


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Well, I'm going to have to get some more chicks. What was likely a raccoon(s) dug under the main 6 foot wood privacy fence AND the 6 foot dog kennel enclosure and got all 7 of the chickens. No blood or bodies and just a few stray feathers. The other two chicks still in the brooder are salmon Faverolles pullets, which are a rare dual purpose bird. They are a bit more costly than the feed store chicks, so may get some hotwire and/or set traps and/or have my dog out at night with them before letting them leave the brooder. The enclosure is probably only about 20 yards from the house. Surprised the dogs didn't alert on something digging under the two fences as my dog will let you know if a butterfly flaps down the street... :-k


Do you have coyotes in your area? We bury old fence about 1' below the fencing and attach to the existing perimeter fencing. Sorry to hear about the chickens. We've had a raccoon get chickens in our old coup but it came over using the neighbor's tree onto the coup and then came through the rafter spacing.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Do you have coyotes in your area? We bury old fence about 1' below the fencing and attach to the existing perimeter fencing. Sorry to hear about the chickens. We've had a raccoon get chickens in our old coup but it came over using the neighbor's tree onto the coup and then came through the rafter spacing.


yes! (sidenote)

This burying of the chainlink that is connected to the fence is great to thwart digging animals. especially dogs, if put on the inside of the enclosure, as opposed to the outside.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I could not find any tracks, but both holes were pretty small. Like my 25-30 lbs pup may not have been able to squeeze through. Coyotes are in the area and I can hear them occasionally. I'm thinking I may do some hotwire like this since it's movable (I was trying to avoid putting a permanent coop up):

http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplie...ontainment-ft1_electric_fencing;pg108071.html


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

maren...

on another side note...are you zoned Agricultural?. If so you can apply for property tax reduction for having chickens and/or other livestock, most likely...

here you have to have 10 chickens minimum to qualify for tax break.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm just barely in the city limits and we are allowed 6 birds, no mature roosters. When I move to my eventual dream location (probably either Colorado or Utah), I'll want chickens, horses, sheep, and possibly a few cattle, so I will do that, especially if I sell lamb, chicken, or eggs.


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I'm just barely in the city limits and we are allowed 6 birds, no mature roosters. When I move to my eventual dream location (probably either Colorado or Utah), I'll want chickens, horses, sheep, and possibly a few cattle, so I will do that, especially if I sell lamb, chicken, or eggs.




will you take me with you, I'm an old goat????


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

No pictures, unless people want to see pics of the eating process LOL But I butchered 2 of my hens yesterday, they are layers not meat birds, but have started to eat their own eggs. Gave them a couple of weeks trying different tricks to get them to stop and decided I'm done paying for their feed, time for them to become food. Have 2 more that may end up with the same fate, they eat about 1 egg a week between the two of them, but if they keep it up, they will be goners.

I just killed them then cut them up into a number of pieces, when I feed as a group I find having 2-3 pieces more than the number of dogs works well, so everyone has their own and if they finish, or do loose it to another dog, they can go find another piece instead of starting a fight. No cleaning done to the carcasses.

I think next time though I'm going to take the time to either do a rough plucking, or cut most of the feathers off with scissors. A couple of the dogs ended up throwing up an hour or two after eating, and the ones that did had a lot of feathers in there. They have eaten raw chicken many times before, although it's been cleaned since it's from the store, any other ideas on what might have made them throw up besides the feathers? Can eating things like the gall bladder cause issues?


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Usually the small feathers are pretty consumable and and some dogs are pretty good at plucking - if you give them a whole bird they will often stand on the wings and feather pluck the carcass somewhat before eating it - it might be that the dogs are just not used to consuming the feathers yet and thus upchucking them. Some dogs will disect the chicken fairly thouroughly and some will just gorf the whole works down. Alot of dogs will not eat the wings of bigger or older chickens as they have big coarse feathers.

you can see alot of discarded feathers in the pic - it can get fairly messy 









I did get one dog that had been raised eating alot of whole chickens and his reaction to getting a big chunk of beef was to step on it and go thru the plucking motions with it!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> if you give them a whole bird they will often stand on the wings and feather pluck the carcass somewhat before eating it - it might be that the dogs are just not used to consuming the feathers yet and thus upchucking them.


Maybe that was my mistake, I cut the wings off LOL Actually they were good about just eating the meat, skin and bones on the wings, most of the feathers left in the yard are wing feathers. I noticed some plucking, but I also saw a lot of consuming of the feathers from along the back and some tail feathers, not just the softer downy ones.

It's probably an aquired skill, not sure how much practice they will get since I don't plan to butcher a lot of chickens since we have them for the eggs, but we'll see.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

An update on my bird raising experiment. So about 3 days ago, I went to go let the chickens out (they were about 5.5-6 weeks at that point). I noticed one had a long laceration about 4 or 5 inches long in its thigh. It was not deep and did not look like a bite. Almost like the skin had been torn, maybe on the fence? Anyways, decided to cull that one since it was big enough to eat and did not want it to suffer. I kept the white meat and one leg quarter for us and gave the entrails, bad leg, back, neck, head, and feet to the dogs. Well, apparently that got them inspired to help themselves as Arya the pup dug under the enclosure and killed the remaining four the next day, just a mere 2 weeks from butchering. When I came outside, Fawkes was eating one bird and Arya was eating another. Oh boy, was I pissed... :evil: Didn't help that the next morning, she had diarrhea in her crate, likely due to all the feathers that were obvious in the poop. [-X

So out of raising two batches of birds, mostly meat birds with a couple layer pullets, I have only gotten to eat one due to four legged predators of either the domestic or wild variety. I grilled the chicken I culled tonight over indirect charcoal heat for about 15 minutes per side with soaked hickory chips. Very tasty. I am trying to decide if I want to give this a try again or wait til the fall when it will be cooler again. I hear Cornish crosses don't do well in the heat. I may also consider doing freedom rangers, which are another hybrid cross more suited to backyard production. I'll have to order them from a hatchery if I do.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Huskies(and X's...) and chickens - not the best of mixes unless one side is in some sort of maximum security facility....:lol:


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## Robley Smith (Apr 20, 2012)

I am surprised that no one has mentioned automatic pluckers / plucking machines. Pretty simple, scalded chicken is stripped by stationary rubber fingers in a drum with a rotating floor plate that has fingers as well. Done in like 30 seconds or less. Check you tube.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Robley Smith said:


> I am surprised that no one has mentioned automatic pluckers / plucking machines. Pretty simple, scalded chicken is stripped by stationary rubber fingers in a drum with a rotating floor plate that has fingers as well. Done in like 30 seconds or less. Check you tube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC051HphyvY&feature=related


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't raise enough at a time to make it worthwhile to rent or buy. It significantly drives up the cost per bird to process. Like we can only have 6 birds at a time in the city, so even if I did make to a full butchering without the dogs deciding they need to help out, it wouldn't probably be worth it. Now if I was doing 10+ per session, I probably would.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Robley Smith said:


> I am surprised that no one has mentioned automatic pluckers / plucking machines. Pretty simple, scalded chicken is stripped by stationary rubber fingers in a drum with a rotating floor plate that has fingers as well. Done in like 30 seconds or less. Check you tube.



I started working in my uncle's produce and poultry market when I was a kid. The first time I used the auto plucker I didn't hang on as well as I should have. It grabbed the chicken out of my hands, slammed it against the guard and ground it to a pulp before I could shut the thing off. 8-[


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I feel your pain Maren. The last time I had layer chickens, the foxes ate the first group of six before I realized that living in the middle of nowhere and having free range hens wasn't going to work. Bold as brass I saw a fox grab one right off my back porch in broad daylight. 

The second round of chicks were almost old enough to lay before they got sick and one by one wasted away leaving me with just one hen and the rooster. Something (racoon?) harrassed them in the pen one night killing the hen and leaving just the useless rooster. He lived, but never really recovered and died a few weeks later.

Total investment in chickens and supplies was probably well over $100. I think I was lucky enough to get maybe a dozen eggs. Most expensive eggs ever. But I miss my pretty chickens and I would do it again if I could.


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