# any suggestions for 2,4-d poisoning?



## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

dog has ataxia and very lethargic. brought the dog to the vet they gave her fluids and then told me to take her home and bring her back if she gets worse. any suggestions on anything else i could do?


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

the vet also did a kidney and liver function test. both were fine.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

it was granular. the vet didnt bother with charcoal or stomach pumping because it was last night that she ate it


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/24d.htm 

Scroll to Effects in Pets
http://www.pesticide.org/24D.pdf

Scroll to Signs of Toxicity in Pets
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/2,4-DTech.pdf


How much did the dog ingest? 
Did not find anything regarding treatment per say, but it does talk about the effects. 
What is the dog acting like now after treatment? How much fluids did they give? 

If the dog starts acting the same way, I would go back in immediately. And I would have another liver/kidney panel done in 24hrs or sooner if the dog is not acting normally at all.....might be an emergency visit, but with that kind of ingestion I would not mess around at all.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

i have no idea how much she ate. i spread bloodmeal on my garden. all the plants died. the bottom of the box was rotten from getting wet. there was granular 2,4-d next to it in the tote. she ate the blood meal from the garden. this morning her back legs were pretty much useless. they still are. the vet gave her 800 ml of fluid. she said the neurological symtoms are consistent with 2,4-d ingestion. she said to bring her in if she has new symtoms or gets worse. she said typically symptoms would resolve within 24-48 hours.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I have seen dogs drink 2-4D concentrate when we were mixing it in a commercial sprayer. Never bothered them but they are ranch dogs. Don't know what the blood meal is but the dog ate that also? Product labels usually have instructions on what to do if ingested on the label. They also have instuctions on how to handle them safely if you going to use them around pets.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

I am assuming that this is what you are using...

http://www.the-organic-gardener.com/blood-meal.html

I think that this is a good reminder to all of us that work in our yards to store all of our gardening "stuff" up and away and in containers that cannot leak or be torn into. 

Went through a lab that was eating the dead mice after they had gotten on DCon.....IV fluids and Vitamin K forever (at least it seemed like)......we now have cats for the rodents and do not use any kind of stuff that is toxic to the dogs or cats.

Jaime....I truly hope all turns out well for your dog....


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Dang Jamie hope he's going to be ok that's horse shit luck


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

just brought her to a emergency vet. he said 2,4-d wouldnt do it unless she ate alot. he is leaning towards some old cheese. my wife gave her some cream cheese that she saw a little mold on. she is being kept over night with a iv and cath. i changed my mind on her getting worse. i think what i was seeing is she was getting used to falling and was stiffening up in the front rather than trying to fight the fall. what is so strange is how aleret she is. i ask her where her ball is and she starts looking around and trying to find it, but her legs just dont work right. she has awarness in all her limbs(put her feet out of position she puts them back) i guess i'll find out tommorrow morning if she is improving or not.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Is there anything else she could have gotten into??? I am having a hard time with a little mold on cheese....that just sounds odd to me.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

dog ate the blood meal (safe just dried blood) that was stored next to a granular 2,4-d. they got wet somehow mixed together. thats why it killed my garden where i used it. the new vet thinks it was just a coincidence that she ate something else at the same time i killed my garden.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

sounds like the vet thinks it might be something like this. funny because it was cream cheese my wife fed her. guess i'll read a little and see if his treatment is what is reccommended
http://springerlink.com/content/v50254327m14227l/


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## Kerry Foose (Feb 20, 2010)

jamie lind said:


> sounds like the vet thinks it might be something like this. funny because it was cream cheese my wife fed her. guess i'll read a little and see if his treatment is what is recommended
> http://springerlink.com/content/v50254327m14227l/



Has your dog been treated in the past with any type of penicillin antibiotic? Is your dog sensitive to it or anything else that comes to mind?
I have seen severe pennicillin reactions in horses, it's a crap shoot because you never know until its too late. I had a pony drop dead in less than 10 minutes once and I have been wary of pennicillin shots ever since. Some animals/people do have a sensitivity to pennicilin and the mold in which it is made from...but I am with the others and find it hard to beleive that a small amount of mold on that cream cheese would have that severe of an effect on a fifty plus pound dog. In the article the mold described is thick green and bordering on black...the cheese in question which you described was far from that.
So the vet did not offer any other supportive therapy or ask to keep for observations? Was the organ panel still normal on the next visit? You went over him real good and don't see any trauma or bite marks or anything like that? Any vit. b1-shot?
Honestly I would be more inclined to think that your dog got into a noxious weed before I believe the cream cheese...it is the time of year when pollen is high, blossoms are out and curiosity can kill the cat...or dog in this case...Not literally, (sorry I didn't mean it that way.) But anyway, you get the idea...keep digging so you can rule other things in or out also. 
Best of luck, keep us posted.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Well now we have it narrowed down. Spider bite? Noxious weed/plant? Bee sting? Ate a lizard? This is no joke. I had been on the phone for about an hour. Was still talking when I saw my cocker walking across the floor really out of control. She was heading for the door and fell down three times crossing the room. I immediately got off the phone and call the vet as this was my lap dog and long before I learned better. He said in all honesty, as fast as it happened it sounds like the dog is drunk . I had left a drink sitting on the end table while I was on the phone in the kitchen. It was empty. Sometimes things just work out.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Well now we have it narrowed down. Spider bite? Noxious weed/plant? Bee sting? Ate a lizard? This is no joke. I had been on the phone for about an hour. Was still talking when I saw my cocker walking across the floor really out of control. She was heading for the door and fell down three times crossing the room. I immediately got off the phone and call the vet as this was my lap dog and long before I learned better. He said in all honesty, as fast as it happened it sounds like the dog is drunk . I had left a drink sitting on the end table while I was on the phone in the kitchen. It was empty. Sometimes things just work out.


Tsk...Tsk....Don, you should know better than to leave good whiskey down where the dogs can get it.....:-\":grin:


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

don i haven't got a dog drunk since i got married. i went to check her out this morning. she is now able to stand up to go to the bathroom. i'm going to check on her later in the day and see if she is in good enough shape that i want to take her home. they are going to do another liver and kidney test on her before she comes home.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

well i went to pick up my dog today. she was pulling my wife all over the vets office. from not able to stand to completely normal. they ruled out 2,4-d like the first vet. 2nd vet thought it was mold on cheese, doesnt seem likely to me. the 3rd vet guessed xylitol(sugarless gum), he thought the reason the other vets ruled it out was because her glucose was normal. i guess xylitol lowers glucose most of the time but not all the time. this seems the most likely to me because my 4 year old chews a brand of gum with it as an ingredient and i find it everywhere a 4 year old would put it. well we changed brands of gum.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

jamie lind said:


> well i went to pick up my dog today. she was pulling my wife all over the vets office. from not able to stand to completely normal. they ruled out 2,4-d like the first vet. 2nd vet thought it was mold on cheese, doesnt seem likely to me. the 3rd vet guessed xylitol(sugarless gum), he thought the reason the other vets ruled it out was because her glucose was normal. i guess xylitol lowers glucose most of the time but not all the time. this seems the most likely to me because my 4 year old chews a brand of gum with it as an ingredient and i find it everywhere a 4 year old would put it. well we changed brands of gum.


One thing for sure, we will never see this episode on House. Jesus..is that the best they could come up with ??


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

all that anyone will ever know is she was really sick now shes better. everything else is just guesses. 3 different guesses by 3 different vets.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

what i really need to do is figure out how to rig up an IV because thats all the 3 vets did. i could have saved alot of money. the reason i had to go to 3 differnt vets is they kept closing and kicking her out because no one could take care of her after hours. At least i did find a vet i like in the process.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

jamie lind said:


> what i really need to do is figure out how to rig up an IV because thats all the 3 vets did. i could have saved alot of money. the reason i had to go to 3 differnt vets is they kept closing and kicking her out because no one could take care of her after hours. At least i did find a vet i like in the process.


 
IV is just a thing to do when there are no answers. I had a sick pup once and they thought it was parvo...to this day I believe they drowned him with ringers.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jamie, where are you from? PM me if you like...


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

minnesota.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I'd see if you can get a hold of the University of Minnesota veterinary diagnostic lab's toxicology department for some ideas. There's so many things that can cause toxicities, they'd probably know the best:

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vdl/


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I'd see if you can get a hold of the University of Minnesota veterinary diagnostic lab's toxicology department for some ideas. There's so many things that can cause toxicities, they'd probably know the best:
> 
> http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vdl/


I seriously had a problem like this when a dog got hold of a toad.......it resolved over about a 24 hour period but he could hardly stand and drooled excessively. I know this time of year we can hardly walk down the street at night for all the damned toads everywhere.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

i think she is completely back to normal. today she dug up and killed 2 gophers.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

good to hear!!!!!


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

jamie lind said:


> i think she is completely back to normal. today she dug up and killed 2 gophers.


People poison gophers and on occasion they die topside or close to it and are eaten by dogs etc.

Just a thought if this has happened before.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

i only have 1 neighbor that way. they do not poison them. i try to keep their numbers down by shooting them while i mow the lawn.


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