# Youth in working dog venues.



## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Hey guys, I haven't really posted here in awhile, mostly creeping around.

I run into quite a few issues when training dogs due to my age, I'm 15 currently and have been training since I was 6-7. Most people fail to take me seriously or 'hear me out' when opinions are asked on the subject of training issues, or just anything dog in general. Fortunately, it only lasts a short time until they get to know me, then it almost switches to "kid knows her stuff". I don't mean anything in a ego trip way- I still have a lot to learn and there is a very very extremely large list of things I don't know, but I do have experience and sometimes wish people would give me a chance before writing me off. Does that make any sense at all? I have worked with and trained (yay apprenticeships!) SAR, Detection (Narc/Explo/Cad), Schutzhund, PPD, PSD and Tracking to give you an idea of my experience with dogs.

Anyway, I was curious as to how you/your club views youth trainers/handlers. I understand it's a very broad question, which makes it hard to answer. I mean are you against it? Do you treat youth trainers/handlers equally as you do the adults? Does it simply depend on the maturity of the child? I'm interested to say the least.

Another thing- would you allow a youth trainer to train your dog? Say you have observed them on the field with their own dog, with a few others people's dogs and they appear to be very good at what they do and carry a conversation on the subject of training with a well rounded head, interesting theories and ideas? AKA, would you pick them over an adult based on a higher experience level? 

...If this whole thread screams 'brain fart' then feel free to ignore me. It makes sense in my head but I'm not sure if I'm translating it correctly into text lol.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm always open to any opinions, but generally anyone under the age of 20 doesn't have enough experience in life or anything else
to be offering advise. I've met a few exceptions over the years, but they can be counted on one hand ;-)


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

i don't take anyone under 40yo seriously about anything - no offence to you.

best of luck


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

What have you accomplished with all this dog training? Any working titles on any dogs?


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Hi Lindzey,

I think it is great to have the younger crowd involved in dogsports. I think any club would be lucky to have you..I wish you all the success in the future!

There are many “oldtimers” who I wouldn’t listen to personally, time in the sports, titled obtained or age certainly doesn’t equal wisdom. 

All the best!

Tracey


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## mel boschwitz (Apr 23, 2010)

Like has been said, its the mileage thats lacking. in 10 yrs, esp at that age when you obviously cant devote yourself full time to it, your lacking in dog experience. you may hoave done a lot, but not with enough dogs. And the fact that you've worked so many different venues in such a short period of time says "jack of all trades and master of none". Most adults wont want a teenager teaching them, no matter how good you may be, or think you are. Keep your mouth shut and let people come to you as word of mouth spreads IF you deserve it. For years i trained horses professionally. As a teen i let word of mouth spread the word and never touted my horn, and i kept training myself as i taught others, using their horses if i could, cuz theres always someone better. Be patient, you'll get there.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Tracey Hughes said:


> ....
> 
> 
> There are many “oldtimers” who I wouldn’t listen to personally, time in the sports, titled obtained or age certainly doesn’t equal wisdom.
> ...


 
Very, very true, and it's always good to see young people getting involved....but since she also wants to train other peoples' dogs, the obvious question (to me) is what has she accomplished with her own dogs after training in all those venues.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

As long as you wouldn't hold my age against me I wouldn't hold yours against you!!!!! :lol:


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I am 25 and still have this problem. My interest in dogs/dog behavior started when I was about 7, and I got my first dog to train when I was 10. Been training ever since and while I only have 3 years of sport training (Mondioring) I've been involved with dogs for most of my life. I find it is best to keep quiet unless asked, and even then if what I say doesn't line up with someone else's ideas my age is said to be the reason I am "wrong."

To me, it is not the person's age but the number of years they have been working with dogs and what they have done. Titles don't mean as much to me, there are people out there with lots of titled dogs that I would never take advice from. 

I would try not to take it too much to heart, just keep doing what you enjoy and ignore the people that try to bring you down. Try to resist any temptation you might have to prove yourself as this usually only creates more problems. I've been told that I'm "wrong" about dogs or training because I'm female.. because I am currently overweight .. because I'm blonde ... because I'm young.. whatever people seem to think is going to annoy me the most at the time. 

You can have a 45 year old that has been working/training dogs for 5 years and a 20 year old that has been working/training dogs for 10 years and most people will take the 45 year old more seriously.

I am all for young people getting into sport or any kind of training. So keep on keepin' on


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Lindzey.

There is only one thing that makes you good or great at training. Being good. 

It's not 30 or 40. When I hear someone base their opinion on age, I walk away. 

Keep the open mind and keep gaining experience. Good luck to you!!!


People listen to me more when I have a beard. It's funny.


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Thank you for all the input guys!

I can definitely see where most of you are coming from and I think I can agree with a great deal of it. It's true that I've tried a lot of things in a short amount of time, but I don't see that as a disadvantage. Stop me if I'm defending myself, but, I was actually home schooled my whole life until I turned 13 and graduated. I actually did (and do) have all the time in the world to devote to training. Back on the subject of a lot of venues in a short amount of time, I started out as an apprentice at a working dog kennel that kinda did everything- I worked dogs in Schutzhund every weekend and did Detection on Thursdays for an example. 

I myself have not formally titled a dog outside of titles that aren't worth mentioning (BH, CGC, NTD etc.), I have trained dogs to a SchH3 though, just never was able to trial myself. I've trained more as well but I'd rather not flaunt them around unless someone specifically asks, I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to boast or brag because that isn't my intention. I'm not trying to teach adults, I just want to be acknowledged as more than just a kid at Karate class or something. That's all I really mean here. Does that make sense? 

Bear with me, I'm trying to remember what people commented on while I'm typing this.

Someone mentioned 'tooting my own horn' or something of the like? Anyway, I've actually never done that, I'm pretty quiet unless someone speaks to me. Maybe that's why they don't take me seriously? I don't just give out advice or toss it around, I only mention it if someone seems stumped, asks or I think I might have noticed something someone missed. I don't know. But thank you for the advice, I'll take it to heart! It's true that I haven't worked with a astronomical amount of different dogs.

I already have trained other peoples dogs. Nothing sport or working without a mentor but Tracking, OB and random 'pet' stuff. The end question wasn't for me, I was just curious on the outlook and general 'attitude' on it 

I -think- I covered most of it! If I haven't please ask me again! 

. . . . . . . . . . 

Thank you Tracy and Dave, that's very encouraging to hear (...read) that from outside sources. Your comments are very much appreciated on my side of the fence!

Susan, sounds like a fair deal to me


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Lindzey,

In my experience it is better to stay quiet unless asked. What you accomplish will speak for itself and if you are any good people will see it and eventually more and more questions will come your way.

I mentioned resisting the urge to prove yourself to others because I did it for a few years and it got me nowhere. 

Happy training


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> Lindzey,
> 
> In my experience it is better to stay quiet unless asked. What you accomplish will speak for itself and if you are any good people will see it and eventually more and more questions will come your way.
> 
> ...


Oh okay! I get it now, so pretty much just keep doing my thing and not worry about it?
Thank you for replying!


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Yeap, keep on keepin' on  

I find that there are 2 types of people that are the hardest on me:

1.) The people that want the best for me and are pushing me to keep getting better

2.) The people that felt threatened or irritated about the fact that I was/am younger and doing better than they were/are.

There are also people that just plain like to argue, doesn't matter if you are wrong or right they are going to nitpick you to death anyway. But these I see less of face to face than on the internet


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## Rob Kringel (Aug 2, 2011)

What does it matter if anyone takes you seriously. Your 15 years old. I think it is great that you are involved in something at all. I am just getting into this and I am 39. I wish I had started years ago. My son is 13 and he is sort of interested as well. I hope his interest grows. Right now, I am happy to have him doing anything other than playing video games.


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> Yeap, keep on keepin' on
> 
> I find that there are 2 types of people that are the hardest on me:
> 
> ...


Thanks a ton Jennifer, that makes me feel less pressured knowing that it isn't really a big deal. I know what you mean, I'm pretty non-confrontational and avoid situations like that. Online and off! I have had the occasional snapper though 



Rob Kringel said:


> What does it matter if anyone takes you seriously. Your 15 years old. I think it is great that you are involved in something at all. I am just getting into this and I am 39. I wish I had started years ago. My son is 13 and he is sort of interested as well. I hope his interest grows. Right now, I am happy to have him doing anything other than playing video games.


Excellent point. Thank you, I think ^^"
Hey, that would be really great if you and your son trained together! Unfortunately I'm the only 'dog person' in my family, so I don't have a parent or sibling that is willing to do stuff like this. I'll admit that I wish they had more of an interest. Haha, video games can be fun! Nothing wrong with late night Halo tournaments


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## Dana McMahan (Apr 5, 2006)

I am coming from the same place as you. I started showing dogs when I was 10 years old and doing competitive AKC obedience classes with a friend's dog soon after. I did apprenticeships under several trainers, titled over a dozen dogs in different venues and have a pretty long resume for my age.

At the end of the day, even though I'll be 25 this weekend I still look 15 and get the "hey there little lady, let me learn you up" from everyone under the sun. 

It really doesn't matter how many dogs you title or how much more experience you have than the people trying to learn you up, they will always look down on you because you are younger. And don't you dare have an opinion on how to train your own dog. 

Not saying its fair. Its just what I've dealt with at a number of clubs. I always thought once I titled some dogs it would be different but it really isn't. 

My favorite quote though about experience is that "some people have twenty years experience, and some people repeat the same year twenty times". I've met some really impressive youth trainers and handlers who are just gifted with animals that people don't give the time of day. To me I look at the individual and what they bring to the table. Experience in the sport is only as good as what you take from it and I can think of a dozen people who have been in the sport a long time but at some point stopped learning and absorbing new information. 

As long as you are still learning I wouldn't care what people think. Just keep training your dog and showing your results on the trial field.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I'm not a "sport" person, but I have spent some time around dog trainers, young and old. I like the idea of exhuberant youngsters in my business. The weight I might put on what they say is based on more on experience than age, but as so often in life, experience comes with some age. As long as you know your limitations and you don't let your ego get in the way of learning and you don't get your feelings hurt to easily, I think being young has some great advantages. I didn't start off as a balding, fluffy, egotistical, rarely wrong dog trainer. Experience and time has done that to me. 

DFrost


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

You just do what you do. If others don't take you seriously go out there with your dog and hand them their ass. Outside that I wouldn't worry about what other folks may think about your age, your dog, you or anything else. I commend you for being involved and working towards a goal. 

Just a little dogland secret: There are a lot of people who think they know a lot. But they just THINK they know a lot :wink: consider that when your dealing with people.


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## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

The future of working dogs in whatever venue: police, sport, etc. lies with the young people that will "take over" for the preceding generation. 

Somewhere out there are future versions of this generations best trainers, so its important for young people to be ready to step up and be the frontrunners when some of the best "age out"...someone will rise to the occasion to carry the torch.

I think it's great to see young people that are passionate about productive activities like this young lady is. Clearly, she is motivated, articulate, and has the guts to post on a forum putting herself out there to subject herself to public critique.

With time, comes experience, and the opportunities to demonstrate your abilities. Most of the people who will critique you will probably be people who like to talk a lot, and should spend more time holding a leash. 

Take the time to learn all you can from as many different people as possible...retain what works for you, discard what doesn't, create your own style, and enjoy training dogs!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I love seeing young people involved in dog sports, they are after all the generation that will carry on when us "old farts" get to old to do this.

I will admit a minor age bias, if the person looks and acts like a teenager I may want to know their experience level, but frankly many times that is obvious just by watching them work with their dog. Past that, I really don't care how old someone is when it comes to training. If they have obvious knowledge/skills, a # doesn't matter. Besides, I find sometimes that some of the best ideas come from people with some inate ability, but not a ton of experience, because they aren't shackled by the "this is how we do things" mentality, and are more likely to say "what about doing this?" which can lead you down a new and interesting road that you might not have considered as a way to tackle a problem.

When it comes to training dogs for other people, then I do think a resume is needed, once again age doesn't really matter to me, but if you don't have a resume I'm not sure why people would want to have you train/handle their dogs. Unless they are doing it to help a youngster out.

The main concern I see with people in the 10-15 age range is that to many times I've seen someone get really interested in the dogs, people spend a lot of time mentoring them, sometimes giving them a dog to handle, etc only for the person to discover the opposite gender, or a new interest, or whatever and leave the dog scene, basically wasting all the time and effort that was spent on them. Then again, I see adults doing that also, so ...


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Wow. Lots of comments! I don't know where to start and reply at so just thanks to everyone who posted here! I really am grateful, and I value the advice and tips you guys are sharing with me. It's great that I can get a lot of feedback from adults who are involved in the sport/working world. I'll seriously keep everything typed out here in mind, I'm sure it will come in handy on more than one occasion. I'm young and definitely have a lot to learn, besides the fact that we never truly _stop _learning! 

I do have one question though, do any of you mind if I message you sometime with questions or just general dog crap? I don't want to be a bother, but it would be nice to know I have a few more experienced people to ask advice from when I need it.
Don't worry, I don't spam people with random kid stuff ;x

But no, seriously, thank you!


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## Kara Fitzpatrick (Dec 2, 2009)

Dana Williams said:


> At the end of the day, even though I'll be 25 this weekend I still look 15 and get the "hey there little lady, let me learn you up" from everyone under the sun.
> 
> It really doesn't matter how many dogs you title or how much more experience you have than the people trying to learn you up, they will always look down on you because you are younger. And don't you dare have an opinion on how to train your own dog.


this drives me crazy! I'm 22 and I get it all the time. you kind of just have to keep your mouth shut, nod, and smile- then go back to training your dog the way YOU want to train it. 

not that I don't want to learn from experienced trainers... but the people that do that usually aren't, and just want to feel important without you even asking. 


Lindzey: 

just keep doing your thing, and eventually (if you're an awesome trainer) people will notice, want to train with you, listen to your advice, tell other people about you- and your name will spread. 

don't get caught up in what other people think. 

my hubby got in the suit in his early teens... he just kept learning, and training with different people and different dogs. 
People DO take him seriously even though he's only 25 years old... he does seminars and trials all over the place. 

You just need to establish yourself slowly and naturally- don't rush it and don't push it... it will happen if you're a good trainer.


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Kara Fitzpatrick said:


> ...Lindzey:
> 
> just keep doing your thing, and eventually (if you're an awesome trainer) people will notice, want to train with you, listen to your advice, tell other people about you- and your name will spread.
> 
> ...


Thank you Kara 
Really cool about your husband! I think it would be fun to do seminars someday.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Before they got into raising families both of my daughters were involved with dogs, both in the breed ring and obedience ring. One thing they both found out fast was NOT to tell someone how to do such and such unless asked. Then all they said was "This is what works for me". 
Now they both have kids and Chi dogs. Don't know where in the hell I went wrong. ](*,) ](*,) ;-)


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Before they got into raising families both of my daughters were involved with dogs, both in the breed ring and obedience ring. One thing they both found out fast was NOT to tell someone how to do such and such unless asked. Then all they said was "This is what works for me".
> Now they both have kids and Chi dogs. Don't know where in the hell I went wrong. ](*,) ](*,) ;-)


Lmao! Chihuahuas? 
Jeez, they're like little Chupacabras xD


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi Lindzey

You sound like you've got your head on straight. If you want to be taken seriously by the adults (or maybe just older people? 
at your Schutzhund club. Show them what you know, don't tell them. I've gotten to train with some younger trainers over the years. Mark Saccocio has won some big Schutzhund events while still in his early twenties and is one of the best natural trainers and decoys I've met (at Tim Crusers place).

Hi Dana and Kara

Oh you poor babies...you look young for you age?
I don't know how you get out of bed in the morning with that
terrible affliction? LOL
Tell us what a big problem it is in 20 years ;-)


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hi Lindzey
> 
> You sound like you've got your head on straight. If you want to be taken seriously by the adults (or maybe just older people?
> at your Schutzhund club. Show them what you know, don't tell them. I've gotten to train with some younger trainers over the years. Mark Saccocio has won some big Schutzhund events while still in his early twenties and is one of the best natural trainers and decoys I've met (at Tim Crusers place).


Thank you Thomas! I'll be sure to do just that, it makes a lot more sense to show instead of tell.

. . . . . . . . . .

I recently moved from Florida to Colorado. In FL I went to Iron Dog, I really liked it there! Do any of you know of any Schutzhund clubs in SW Colorado...or just Colorado in general?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lindzey Wills said:


> I recently moved from Florida to Colorado. In FL I went to Iron Dog, I really liked it there! Do any of you know of any Schutzhund clubs in SW Colorado...or just Colorado in general?


Hi Lindzey

There are no clubs in SW Colorado, but there are a couple of ladies training in Durango. They go down to train with the Endeavor Club in Los Alamos, New Mexico every couple of weeks and drive up to train in Denver every couple of months.
I can look up the email address (es) of the Durango ladies if you're interested. 
Most of the Schutzhund Clubs are in the Denver Metro area
There are three Mondio groups, one here in Colorado Springs
the second in Castle Rock (1/2 way between Colo Spgs and 
Denver) and the third that trains in Denver but holds trials
and trains a couple of times a year near Las Animas.
There is a new UScA Schutzhund Club in La Junta.

How'd you wind up in Colorado?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lindzey Wills said:


> Lmao! Chihuahuas?
> Jeez, they're like little Chupacabras xD



Bass plugs with feet! :roll:


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

I dont think age is something to focus on. Would I let you train my dog, probably not, but I wouldnt really let anyone mess with my dog. Thats what makes it my dog. I would have no problem letting you decoy for my dogs if you are willing to do what I want. There are a lot of people that are 40 plus that have 20 years of experience and still dont have a clue. We are all in need of learning and for the most part everyone has something to bring to the table. I used to have the age problem when I got married cause I was only 18. I would talk them into giving me a chance and they always ended up liking me. I would say to always keep yourself in check as far as how much you think you know. I still find myself getting humbled all too often when I start thinking Im doing a great job! Also keep in mind that every discipline can teach you something. For example maybe you want to do ring, you can still learn off schutzhund people something valuable!


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hi Lindzey
> 
> There are no clubs in SW Colorado, but there are a couple of ladies training in Durango. They go down to train with the Endeavor Club in Los Alamos, New Mexico every couple of weeks and drive up to train in Denver every couple of months.
> I can look up the email address (es) of the Durango ladies if you're interested.
> ...


 Darn. It would be great if you could get me in contact with them, once I get my license I'll probably be doing something similar. Thanks for all the info! I know where those towns are. I'll have to check them out.

Mountains are better than humid beaches !
I didn't like Florida all that much outside of the dog stuff, and my Mom is having some financial issues so the dogs and I moved with my Grandfather here to SW Colorado.



Bob Scott said:


> Bass plugs with feet!


....the picture in my brain. LOL.



sam wilks said:


> I dont think age is something to focus on. Would I let you train my dog, probably not, but I wouldnt really let anyone mess with my dog. Thats what makes it my dog. I would have no problem letting you decoy for my dogs if you are willing to do what I want. There are a lot of people that are 40 plus that have 20 years of experience and still dont have a clue. We are all in need of learning and for the most part everyone has something to bring to the table. I used to have the age problem when I got married cause I was only 18. I would talk them into giving me a chance and they always ended up liking me. I would say to always keep yourself in check as far as how much you think you know. I still find myself getting humbled all too often when I start thinking Im doing a great job! Also keep in mind that every discipline can teach you something. For example maybe you want to do ring, you can still learn off schutzhund people something valuable!


I agree! Excellent advice and well put!
Thank you


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## Mica Bender (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Lindzey, I'm a fifteen year old Youth Handler too







(You can read my bio) I've also been homeschooled all my life, and I graduated from highschool at 14, and now I'm starting College through an online program (I plan to get a four year degree at home, then go to UT for vet school, then do UT's post-graduate dog sports medicine and rehab program) I have a friend in Denver who goes to some Schutzhund Club up there, but she says they're not very good. I know what you mean about being overlooked because of you age, you just have to keep quiet, keep learning, give suggestions now and then if people ask for them, and then beat all the people who looked down on you at the Nationals! The Schutzhund people I've met (and I've met a lot through seminars) in my experience, tend to first doubt and look down on you (very reasonable, after all, most teenagers just pick their noses and brag about it on facebook) but once you prove how knowledgeable and good you and your dog are at the sport, or if you're not, how willing to learn you are, they become very supportive. Then again, maybe I was just blessed with exceptional schutzhunders. There was a time when I went to Michigan for a Michaela and Horst Knoche seminar, and some people there, were a little rude, one guy who obviously ate one to many McDonalds even cussed at me (like a lot) for getting to close to his dog trailer (he was very apologetic afterwards though). So anyways, keep training, and learning, and start proving that you really do know what you're talking about. "Actions Speak Louder Than Words". And I look forward to meeting you someday at the Nationals! (Or World Championships)







This sport definitely needs more Youth/Young Handlers.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Hi Mica, welcome to the forum.  This is derailing the thread a bit, but as I enjoy talking with pre-vet students a great deal, I thought I'd inject this a bit. You won't be able to get into vet school with an online degree, nor would I recommend you do so even if you could. Most of the major pre-requistes like inorganic chemistry, organic chemistry, intro to bio, genetics, physics, and so on require in class laboratories. Some pre-vets fill in a course here and there, but you cannot do the whole thing online. In addition, you'll need several thousand hours of shadowing experience working with animals both in a non-veterinary situation (dog training is one, but think about shelters, doing research, 4-H, that sort of thing) as well as veterinary experience to be competitive. This should include small animal, food animal, equine, exotics, and beyond. They like to see you have a breadth of experience. While you're a smart cookie if you finished high school at 14, there is a LOT of world out there too beyond an online course. I went to UT for one of my last rotations in vet school and really enjoyed it and I plan to take their rehab course as well. Let me know if you have any questions about the process.


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Mica Bender said:


> Hi Lindzey, I'm a fifteen year old Youth Handler too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, great to see another young handler! High five!
Our stories sound pretty similar, the homeschooling part for sure. Thanks for the tips, they're appreciated. Haha, maybe we will meet up sometime, I'll see _you _at trials







! 

Really though, nice seeing you here 



Maren Bell Jones said:


> ...This is derailing the thread a bit...


I don't mind Maren~


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Mica Bender said:


> There was a time when I went to Michigan for a Michaela and Horst Knoche seminar, and some people there, were a little rude, one guy who obviously ate one to many McDonalds even cussed at me (like a lot) for getting to close to his dog trailer (he was very apologetic afterwards though).


 
Hi, Mica

I'm confused as to why you brought this incident up as an example. Were you upset because he possibly wasn't cutting you slack because you are young? Do you honestly think he only yelled at you because you're young? Do you think maybe he was cussing you out because he just plain didn't want you near his dog trailer and he overreacted to it and then realized it later?

Laura


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

Hi Lindzey,

First, I'm probably somewhat reiterating what Dana and Kadi said, but remember this ...just because someone has been doing something for 30 years doesn't mean they've been doing it right for 30 years.

Some people may argue, but you have at least two things working against you: you're young and you're a woman. If you're attractive, that's another. I'm sure people will argue, but I experience this first hand all the time. 

I also grew up working with dogs and it took me a while to realize my mouth was going to get me into trouble (and it still does, at times - this thread is a good example http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f30/what-has-competition-done-21458/). I have learned in most cases, it really doesn't make sense to argue. Actions always speak louder than words. I've instructed handlers and trainers in a variety of venues and have realized that trying to force them to do what I want by using my position of authority does nothing but create more conflict. Generally, when I meet someone who wants to challenge me because of my age, gender, appearance or the fact that I haven't been doing it as long as them, I try to be respectful and listen to what they have to say and recognize that their experiences are valuable and important. Most of the time, these people are insecure and want to feel important. So make them feel important and be genuine. Make eye contact, listen and be respectful. You'll find there are always things you can learn (even if it's what not to do) and being a good listener often softens their demeanor, making them more willing to be receptive.

Also remember, it's not your job to try to change people or educate them against their will. Much of the time, when groups of people sit around and discuss things like dog training, it's just about people listening to themselves talk. So, learn to be a good listener and become a sponge. If you see each new experience or encounter as a chance to learn something new, your accomplishments are going to speak for themselves. Even if you know more or are better at something than someone else, they have to realize that on their own. I know when I meet a new trainer or go to a seminar, I'm more interested first, in what I see. Once I see someone with a leash in hand or watch them demonstrate a technique, I know if they are legitimate or not. That's when I really begin to listen. People are going to judge you the same way. 

There will be crowds that you will never be able to influence. I've with military and law enforcement for a while and been in positions where I've had to instruct and advise and I just know that there are some people who will never take me seriously and never truly listen to what I have to say or watch what I can accomplish. That's the nature of this business. There are always a lot of egos involved when it comes to training and working dogs. Every day I wish I could have been born a man because I love what I do, but being a woman makes it so much more difficult. But, it also drives me to be the best I can be and to let my accomplishments speak for themselves. Those who have that drive also, will notice you and be interested in what you know.

When you get to the top, just remember how it felt when people didn't take you seriously and always afford them the same respect you would have appreciated. The only people I write off are usually the ones who tell me they have nothing to learn from me because I haven't been doing it as long as them. They just motivate me to be better. And really, what does it matter if people listen to you or not? Whenever I'm feeling the need to prove myself for the sake of someone else, I think of this quote, "I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." 

Your accomplishments are yours. Do what you love because you love it and people will notice, but don't make the recognition the reason you do it.

Sorry if that was kinda preachy ...this is just something I'm passionate about.

By the way, you articulate yourself very well and I've found that to also be extremely important. Speak well, write well, carry yourself with confidence and work hard. If the natural ability is there, that's pretty much all you need.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Hi, Mica
> 
> I'm confused as to why you brought this incident up as an example. Were you upset because he possibly wasn't cutting you slack because you are young? Do you honestly think he only yelled at you because you're young? Do you think maybe he was cussing you out because he just plain didn't want you near his dog trailer and he overreacted to it and then realized it later?
> 
> Laura


HI Laura

Exactly, I'm a "little" older then Mica 
I had some Doberman owner(at the UDC Nationals) go off on me for getting too close to her motor home/puppies in an x pen
and I was trying to tell her husband in the vehicle that his headlights were on (She was off in a crowd 50 feet from the parking lot) With all the PETA nut jobs and thieves in the world lots of people have a problem with someone getting too close to their dog trailer or vehicles. I doubt if it had anything to do with age.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Ariel Peldunas said:


> Hi Lindzey,
> 
> First, I'm probably somewhat reiterating what Dana and Kadi said, but remember this ...just because someone has been doing something for 30 years doesn't mean they've been doing it right for 30 years.
> 
> ...


HI Ariel

Excellent advise for Lindzey (and Mica) and anyone else.
I'd take your training advise any day based on your titles. scores and the video you've posted. I'd even be willing to
over look the fact that you're female and good looking 
I like the Ayn Rand quote. I've had a similar philosophy based on Fritz Perls Gestalt Prayer probably since before any of you were born 

"I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped."
(Fritz Perls, "Gestalt Therapy Verbatim", 1969)


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> HI Ariel
> 
> Excellent advise for Lindzey (and Mica) and anyone else.
> I'd take your training advise any day based on your titles. scores and the video you've posted. I'd even be willing to
> ...


Thomas,

Thank you again for the compliments and any time you're in the VA area, look me up. I'm always willing to train with anyone, anywhere. I honestly think that's what has helped me to be successful. I always believe I can learn something new and only hope I can share something that will help others be successful as well. That's why I like PSA ...your competitors are your friends and they really do want to see you succeed. We all help each other get better.


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Whoops! Sorry guys, haven't been online for a little while.

Again, thank you or the advice. All of it is welcome, appreciated and helps greatly! I don't have the time to reply to your comment individually right now Ariel, but I did read it and thank you very very much for posting !


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## Tony Hahn (May 28, 2011)

Your post struck a chord with me, so I figured I’d try posting something that might perhaps be helpful to you and other exceptional young folks.

I’m an old fart now, but like you I had an early start into the “adult” world (graduated young, had a full time job/home/etc when ALL my peers were still living at home, yada, yada…)

Just as you seem to be expressing in the OP, I was very frustrated by the manner in which I was treated by the older folks in society. It wasn’t until I was no longer quite such a young’un that I realized WHY the vast majority of older folks did not take me seriously when I was young. 

The key to dealing with the frustration is realizing that you are an exception to the norm. That means you are very different from your peers. Maybe you know 10 (or even 100) youngsters just like you who are mature and knowledgeable, but that doesn’t mean squat in the big picture, because there are millions of teenagers and kids in their 20’s who are immature and ignorant. 

You are in an age group that has very, very, very few individuals like you. Being an exception to your peer group means once people get to know you they will give you more respect than your peers. Realize though, that the people you impress will be thinking something along the lines of “Hey, that kid really knows her stuff!” Kid is the operative word there. No matter how good you are, you will be a “kid” until, well…. until you aren’t. For now, be happy with that, because expecting more leads to frustration. 

Someday you will no longer be treated like a kid. Lol, you may face other challenges due to your gender, race, stature, weight, speech patterns, etc., but those challenges exist for everyone to some degree or another, that’s just how life is. 

Keep striving for excellence and be patient.


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## Lindzey Wills (Apr 12, 2010)

Tony Hahn said:


> Your post struck a chord with me, so I figured I’d try posting something that might perhaps be helpful to you and other exceptional young folks.
> 
> I’m an old fart now, but like you I had an early start into the “adult” world (graduated young, had a full time job/home/etc when ALL my peers were still living at home, yada, yada…)
> 
> ...


That makes a lot of sense, I never thought of it like that. Puts a different perspective on things, makes more sense. When I met up with Randy, he mentioned something about how you don't see many kids training their own dogs, I was a little caught off guard to hear that. All my friends around my age have dogs and train them themselves in different venues- Schutzhund, Agility or sometimes just really insane tricks. But as you said, that isn't the majority. 

Thank you Tony 

-
Side note, I'm 16 now. Yay lol.


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