# Raw on $1.25 a day



## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm transitioning from bag food to RAW, and trying to spend $1.25 a day per dog.

My dogs eat once a day. Here is the RAW meal they are being fed daily:

3 raw eggs
raw carrots
raw squash
raw beef heart, or one raw turkey leg
a small amount of pig knuckle 

The results have been good. Very little waste, and the waste is firm.

I'd welcome any constructive thoughts.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jason Caldwell said:


> I'm transitioning from bag food to RAW, and trying to spend $1.25 a day per dog.
> 
> My dogs eat once a day. Here is the RAW meal they are being fed daily:
> 
> ...


I am tired and crabby right now, so I'll only post "one" comment (for now  ).

Where is the organ meat? Heart counts as muscle meat. 

Variety is the key to raw diet. 

If you can estimate the amounts of each food item, I can give you better feedback. But without it, I'd be guessing.


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## Chris Wild (Jan 30, 2008)

This is not a good raw diet. No organ meat, too many eggs. If it's beef heart OR turkey leg, looks like not enough muscle meat or RMB either. Really appears the majority of the diet is veggies and eggs, and that is not appropriate.

Way too much veggies (and if these are raw veggies as you describe, unless they are run through a juicer to break down the cellulose the dogs are unable to digest them so they are just filler and have no nutritional value). And it does not contain variety which is very important.

To compare, our raw diet includes the following on a weekly basis. Every individual meal varies.

About 80% of the diet consists of a combo of 2 or more of these in every meal:
Chicken leg quarters
Ground beef meat and organ mix (includes liver, kidneys, spleen, lungs, pancreas, etc...)
Ground venison
Ground lamb (organ and bone included)

The other 20% is made up of varying amounts of:
Green tripe
Fish (usually canned Jack Mackerel unless we can get fresh for a reasonable price)
Occasionally some pork, turkey or rabbit.

Veggies are given only on occasion, and only once turned into veggie mush in a juicer. And the type of veggies and fruits is quite varied.

Eggs 3x per week, not per day.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

I'd say more bone and organs. chicken backs or necks are good. This time of year you can get turkeys for $.40 a lb. I bought 12 of them yesterday at walmart


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I feed one of mine a prey model RAW diet. I use liver and kidney as an organ meat. Also, What type of RAW are you trying to do? BARF or Prey Model? Mine get no veggies except for as snacks. I also stay away from pork. I feed mine 4 days a week RAW and 2 days a week kibble, then we have 1 fasting day. 

I mainly feed Chicked quarters, whole cornish game hens, beef, a little lamb and some tilapia once in a while. They get eggs 2x a week. 

Courtney


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## Jenn Caskill (Oct 7, 2009)

Find the slaughter house (not the butcher), feeding your dogs gets even cheaper, and if your nice and make friends with some of the guys there you'll likely never pay for food again. 
(bring the dog/s it's key!)

If thats not accessable, check out if your town/city... whatever has a sysco food or symilar company 25cents for chicken necks and backs.

I dont know about horse meat in the states right now but thats cheaper than anything out there and my dogs and my parents dogs are doing great on it. (half a horse is like 100$ 400lbs of meat and organs and bone)

do a bit of leg work in the begining you'l see that figure come way down.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Find a wild game processor/butcher - they'll usually give the scraps away for free! Hunting season is my favorite time of year!


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

todd pavlus said:


> I'd say more bone and organs. chicken backs or necks are good. This time of year you can get turkeys for $.40 a lb. I bought 12 of them yesterday at walmart


 
Yeah great buy! How did you get 12, I thought its only 2 turks per customer??

I only got 2 lastnight but i might go back for more tonight. hehehe....



I agree with everyone, you need more protien type meats. I generally, I feed my dog a staple of 1.5lbs of chicken a day, and at least 2-3 times a week, for variety, i'll feed eggs, Jack Mackeral, beef, pork, turkey, left over pasta noodles (plain), and whatever is on sale.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Meng Xiong said:


> Yeah great buy! How did you get 12, I thought its only 2 turks per customer??
> 
> I only got 2 lastnight but i might go back for more tonight. hehehe....
> 
> ...


I hit 2 stores yesterday and my wife picked up 4 while she was out. Might go back tomorrow if I can find freezer space. It's great...I keep the breast meat for sami's and the rest is chopped for the dogs


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

If we try to replicate what a wild canid in times of plenty would eat, we do indeed include produce. The best choice (kind of obviously) is green tripe, but mooshed-up or otherwise processed (or naturally soft) produce of other types can stand in. Real "prey model" isn't clean supermarket quarters of poultry. Real prey contains organs, and produce in the process of digestion. That supermarket rabbit or chicken is missing some stuff that the dog would devour on his own.

The O.P. diet, as mentioned by others, contains produce that a dog can't process in that form, and it needs organ meat, less reliance on eggs for protein, fish oil* (plus E), and more variety. Chris pointed out some other imbalances. OTOH, it's great to be working on it and asking.  

It's true that we are feeding omnivorous scavengers. But we control the diet, and that pretty much wipes out the scavenging aspect. So variety is crucial, and not repeating the same limited-item meal every day forever is the only viable way to touch most of the nutritional bases.



*Cheapest/easiest way to get the long-chain Omega 3s the dog needs


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Wild said:


> This is not a good raw diet. No organ meat, too many eggs. If it's beef heart OR turkey leg, looks like not enough muscle meat or RMB either. Really appears the majority of the diet is veggies and eggs, and that is not appropriate.
> 
> Way too much veggies (and if these are raw veggies as you describe, unless they are run through a juicer to break down the cellulose the dogs are unable to digest them so they are just filler and have no nutritional value). And it does not contain variety which is very important.
> 
> ...



Very nice, Chris. It might look like a lot of trouble, but I imagine that you (like me) have it pretty streamlined.


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Hi,

Switching is a very hard time for most newbies to raw. Worring about every ingredient and measurment.

I personally do not feed veggies very often anymore. Maybe once or twice a month when I get lazy and buy the premade stuff.

Hunting season and hunters become the raw feeders bestest best friend. Ensure you make nice-nice with LOTS of hunters.

The slaughter house is also a good friend. I personally do feed pork, necks, legs, feet.

The bulk of my dogs diet is chicken carcasses (I get them from the local organic farmer for $0.50lb, but usually they throw in extra). It is the entire carcass minus the breasts and legs/thighs. Or else turkey necks.

Weight bearing bones are much harder bones for dogs to completely consume and digest. So leg bones of any species.

I add suppliments to my dogs. I use K9 showstopper and kelp and during intense work I use K9 Super fuel and kelp. Mind you that stuff is getting really hard to find in Canada these days.

Tamara McIntosh


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

A lot of that frozen turkey is pumped FULL of sodium to enhance moisture - same thing for frozen chicken. If/when I go back it will be waste from the processing plant


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tamara McIntosh said:


> ... The bulk of my dogs diet is chicken carcasses (I get them from the local organic farmer for $0.50lb, but usually they throw in extra). It is the entire carcass minus the breasts and legs/thighs. ..



Well, this beats the organic chicken backs I was so thrilled about for under $1/pound! :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jason Caldwell said:


> ... raw beef heart, or one raw turkey leg ..




You could get chicken backs instead of the weight-bearing turkey bones, and then use the heart as the added muscle meat. Then vary the muscle meat, add the 5 to 10% organs, process the produce (maybe zucchini and the like) and use much less of it, cut the eggs to 2 or 3 a week, add the fish oil and E, and then look around for all the great cheap sources mentioned here for variety.

I was just working up some numbers. I think you can do it with variety right now for $1.50 to $2.00 a day using regular retail outlets, and the more freebies you find, the cheaper it gets.


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Well, this beats the organic chicken backs I was so thrilled about for under $1/pound! :lol:


The funniest part of this is that for the last 3 years I have been getting the chicken carcasses for the DOGS from them.... do you THINK I was buying the meat for US there?? DUH! Now I buy from them for us too.. lol


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Tamara McIntosh said:


> The funniest part of this is that for the last 3 years I have been getting the chicken carcasses for the DOGS from them.... do you THINK I was buying the meat for US there?? DUH! Now I buy from them for us too.. lol


It is funny how we go to great lengths for our dogs diets and it does not dawn on us to buy our own meat from people as well.....LOL


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> It is funny how we go to great lengths for our dogs diets and it does not dawn on us to buy our own meat from people as well.....LOL


No kidding! I reserve the right to take the choice bits for myself, after all I am paying for it! Never thought I'd be learning butchering and processing skills b/c of the dogs... though I think it might make an interesting job, now... Also really fun to see the reaction my parents had watching me process an entire beef liver in the kitchen sink. For dogs and me. Stewed liver in white sauce, done right, is one of my favorite foods. YUM.


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

Lots of good stuff on here. I'll see if I can find a Sysco type vendor. Thanks.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jason Caldwell said:


> Lots of good stuff on here. I'll see if I can find a Sysco type vendor. Thanks.


You will find that opportunities pop up from the most unexpected places once you get started.

The farmers' market just before closing is where I usually get the dogs' produce, and it's very close to (or literally) free. Bruised summer squash, celery tops, and other unsold stuff can be tossed into the food processor (or not, if it's something with very little in the way of cellulose walls, like zucchini guts) and then tossed into the freezer. The same farmers' market has fishermen who sell trimmings from when they fillet their catch -- they call it cat food, and it's pretty much what the supermarket calls "fish for stir-fry" (except the price).

Cans of mackerel and salmon are actually $1 a can at dollar stores in some places! I am so jealous of my sister near Boston who picks up 20 1-pound cans at a time and stocks the pantry! (Start slow with canned fish just in case too much at once triggers a little diarrhea.)

A supermarket near me sells "chicken for soup" for under $1 a pound, and it's mostly backs with some neck pieces. The same one will throw in a package of free chicken livers if you buy two whole chickens.

Look around in ethnic specialty grocery stores, too. 

Oh, and a fellow forum member has emailed me a couple of times when a chain that has stores near both us us had whole Cornish hens for $1. Talk about no bone-meat ratio guessing! :lol:

Even if you have no hunters handy, speak up and spread the word, including in stores where you already shop and they want your continued patronage.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Another cost-cutter: Have a plastic bin in both the freezer and 'fridge that's just for dog stuff. For example, I use a tray that comes in a big picnic cooler, meant to hold foods above the ice.

Then odds and ends can go straight in there. If you use plastic bags, like the ones you get your grocery-store produce in (or maybe you actually buy them, unlike me .... :lol: ), you can then toss the emptied bag right back into the bin for re-use. 

I have seen people rinse them -- or even discard them -- after one use! Can you believe!? :lol: :lol:


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

With that thought... See if your grocery store does markdowns on meat that is getting close to exp date. The dogs don't care, and there's nothing wrong with it. My last score was several 5lb chubs of ground beef at $2 each. Granted that doesn't happen very often, but I've been able to get some super deals that way. I rarely pay more than $1 per pound for anything. Organ meats and mutton tends to be the most expensive, closer to $2 or $3 per pound... But overall I think it works out to $0.80 per pound for me... Not too bad! 

A big freezer is essential, if you are feeding several dogs and buying in bulk.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> With that thought... See if your grocery store does markdowns on meat that is getting close to exp date. ...


How did I forget that one!? :lol:

I've seen folks with a cart FILLED with marked-down trays of meat, and pictured in my mind how many happy dogs there were going to be .... :lol:


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I feed my dogs mostly chicken and pork, with beef as a 3rd variable. Supplement with beef liver, fish/fish oil, an egg or 2 a week, and a meal of high quality kibble thrown in for good measure. I also give canned green tripe once a week with the kibble meal. 

I rarely feed any veggies. I will give leftover baked potatoes or plain rice that doesn't get eaten by anyone in the house. 

I understand the prey model idea that the dog will eat what's in the stomach, but really, how much is in the stomach of a chicken or rabbit?

I'm always scouring the shelves of the grocery stores for the "buy it today or we throw it away" stuff. I've found 10# bags of chicken leg quarters for .39/lb. They looked at me funny when I had every bag they had in my cart. 

In the next week we're getting a quarter of a cow. It averages a little over $2/lb, but considering we're getting some top cuts of beef for us to eat, ones that normally are $6-12/lb in the store, the ground beef, cheaper cuts, rib bones, liver, heart are all a good price for the dogs.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

There's actually quite a bit of stuff in a rabbit's (or other small animal's) stomach/intestines!

I don't have any rabbit dissection photos handy, but I do have a mole dissection photo that demonstrates it. (The mole's forelegs had been removed before the photo was taken.) (left)

The only animal that I have noticed very little stomach/intestine content was a fetal Axis fawn. (right) The orangish blob on the left is the liver, the curly stuff in a sac is the intestines.


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

Tamara, I order my kelp from http://www.cleanrun.com. They also carry K9 superfuel which I haven't tried. I live in Southern Ontario and don't mind importing their items. Mind you I'm only feeding one 25lb dog now!

When I started raw 8 or 9 years ago it was with all of the advice from Connie and the Leerburg website. At first it seems intimidating, but once you get into a routine it's no problem. 

For me I find that taking a day every couple of months to bag up a whole bulk purchase is the easiest. When ground beef goes on sale in bulk I mix it with cans of green tripe, liver, heart, kidney, chicken or turkey gizzard (all ground up with cranberries or blueberries or some other fruit). I then make big meatballs or patties, freeze them individually on cookie sheets then bag them up. Last night I spent 3 hours cutting up 50lbs of chicken frames that I bought for $10 at a poultry processing plant.

I buy canned sardines and salmon or Costco or wherever they're cheapest. To manage my dog's weight I do the rib test every week. 

Connie's info is always good!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Dan Long said:


> ... I understand the prey model idea that the dog will eat what's in the stomach, but really, how much is in the stomach of a chicken or rabbit?.



Hence the fairly small part of the diet that produces makes up. 

Anne, nice pics! :lol:

Since the dog can't instinctively correct my mistakes, I don't withhold something he'd eat in the wild, on his own.... I try to replicate it. At least, to the best of my ability.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Dan Long said:


> I've found 10# bags of chicken leg quarters for .39/lb. .


EXCELLENT score!


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Melissa Blazak said:


> Tamara, I order my kelp from http://www.cleanrun.com. They also carry K9 superfuel which I haven't tried. I live in Southern Ontario and don't mind importing their items. Mind you I'm only feeding one 25lb dog now!


It is my understanding that they can't ship the super fuel/show stopper accross the border due to import regulations, as these produces contain chicken somethingorother, for right now (aparenty the company is desperately trying to get compliant or inspected or something like that). I would happily order it online from the USA if I could! I am about an 8 hour drive form the nearest border so going across to get it isn't an option either, damn it!

Tamara


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

I have seen intelligent, experienced people disagree about drumsticks (weight bearing bones)


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

Melissa Blazak said:


> Tamara, I order my kelp from http://www.cleanrun.com. They also carry K9 superfuel which I haven't tried. I live in Southern Ontario and don't mind importing their items. Mind you I'm only feeding one 25lb dog now!
> 
> When I started raw 8 or 9 years ago it was with all of the advice from Connie and the Leerburg website. At first it seems intimidating, but once you get into a routine it's no problem.
> 
> ...


 
Melissa, what is the rib test?


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I am not totally raw but it costs a tad over $1 a day per dog with about 26#'s of kibble and 10 lbs of chicken. Is turkey more or less nutritional than chicken? It is still a PITA since I have to make a trip to the valley to find anything cheap. Have been thinking of going to 20 lbs of chicken a day which would be about 1 lb per adult. Is one lb ok for a 70 lb dog with kibble for the other nutrients?


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

Does anyone know what the rib test is?


I was going to try adding some cooked sweet potato to the meat tonight. Anyone think that's a bad idea?


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Jason Caldwell said:


> Does anyone know what the rib test is?
> 
> 
> I was going to try adding some cooked sweet potato to the meat tonight. Anyone think that's a bad idea?


The rib test is looking and feeling your dog to determine condition. You require common sense to complete this test, very scientific. 

Tamara McIntosh


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jason Caldwell said:


> I was going to try adding some cooked sweet potato to the meat tonight. Anyone think that's a bad idea?


Not a bad idea in theory, but not helping on the problems with your dogs' diet.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

i get a good deal of my raw feeder parts from restaurant food wholesalers. I have accounts with them for work now, but before i did I got a friend of mine to order my chicken from the wholesaler he used at his restaurant.

If you don't have a friend who runs a restaurant you can try and find a raw food co-op near you. You can also often find smaller local poultry and meat processors that will sell direct to raw feeders. Slaughterhouses like to find people to buy feeders parts so they aint got to toss em out the to open up storage space in their coolers/freezers. 

Others here are on point with the markdown meat idea. I always check the meat cases at the grocery store even if i'm just there for some beer or snacks. If you frequent the store ask to talk to the meat manager.Tell him you want cheap parts fo feed your dogs. A kroger near my place loves me b/c they know i'll buy almost all the "expires next day" meats if they mark em down enough. they got my cell number taped on thier contact board. 

When i check my dog on the "rib test" i look to see that i can just barely see the definiton of the ribs. Then i feel to be sure i can just them when i touch but that they're not like sticking out. its totaly unscientific.


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

What about pork chitterlings?


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## Ryan Cole (Mar 5, 2009)

If you can see ribs, they're too skinny.
If you can't feel ribs, they're too fat.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

Jason Caldwell said:


> What about pork chitterlings?


I wouldn't think the chittlings would be of any real nutritional value. Lots of raw feeders feed green tripe, which is uncleaned cow rumnant stomachs. The only reason green tripe is worth anything to your dogs is because of the "green" in it. the "green"refers to undigested rumnants and vegetative matter. cleaned tripe on its own is damn near useless to the dogs so I would think that cleaned chittlings would be useless as well. 

however i have never fed chittlings nor have i really looked into them so i could be totally wrong.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

chris haynie said:


> I wouldn't think the chittlings would be of any real nutritional value. Lots of raw feeders feed green tripe, which is uncleaned cow rumnant stomachs. The only reason green tripe is worth anything to your dogs is because of the "green" in it. the "green"refers to undigested rumnants and vegetative matter. cleaned tripe on its own is damn near useless to the dogs so I would think that cleaned chittlings would be useless as well.
> 
> however i have never fed chittlings nor have i really looked into them so i could be totally wrong.


 
They'er not bad deep fried! :-D:-D


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

yeah they are...im a big fan of fried crackling too. yummy pork skin. plus damn near everything is better deep fried.


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