# Add Water to Kibble?



## Jennifer Coulter

I have cause to feed kibble for a couple of weeks (I normally feed raw). Normally my dog's water bowl goes untouched for days at a time on raw. On kibble he is a thirsty dog.

Is it safe to add water to kibble at time of feeding? Does it increase chances of bloat or such thing? This is for hydration purposes, he has no problem with palatablilty of kibble.

My dog will not have water always available through days of decent energy output, so want to add water to food at time of feeding if I may.

Do they do this with sled dogs if they are feed kibble?

PS-I know about dehydrated raw and use it at times, but have decided kibble (grain free) is the way to go for this particular adventure.


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## Matthew Grubb

Lots of people soak their kibble in water for 20 mins or so before eating... thought being that it does it's expanding in the bowl and not in the dog's tummy.


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## Leslie Patterson

Don't know the cause but my dog bloated/stomach twisted about an hour or two after eating soaked Orijen kibble. If you are concerned you could feed can or moisten the kibble with can food and/or Tripett and use Prozyme.


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## Anne Vaini

Soaked kibble is a factor for bloat WHEN the kibble contains citric acid. So read your label or feed dry.


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## Leslie Patterson

Anne Vaini said:


> Soaked kibble is a factor for bloat WHEN the kibble contains citric acid. So read your label or feed dry.


I read that is actually not true.


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## leslie cassian

I've been adding water to kibble for years. I don't soak it, just add about 1/2 cup or so to 1 1/2 cups kibble and set it down. Slows down my 'inhale every mouthful like it was his last' dog so that he doesn't choke on the dry stuff and gives him a bit of 'soup', too.

I had no idea it could be bad for them. Figured it was getting a bit of extra fluids into them and filling their bellies a little more.


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## Anne Vaini

Leslie Patterson said:


> I read that is actually not true.


Came from a Purdue study. I'll dig it out...



> Purdue University Study shines much light on this perplexing disease. They found that certain factors increased the incidence of GDV. The first and most important factor was age. The older the dog was the more commonly they develop GDV. The second most common factor was having a relative that had developed GDV. This shows that genetics plays a part in the disease. The third factor was feeding the dog in a raised food bowl. Raising the food bowl is often suggested in large breeds that have trouble swallowing. So there may be some linkage between esophageal problems and GDV. There was a 2.7-fold increase in the risk of GDV in dogs that ate dry dog food that contained fat as its most common or first ingredient. The risk of GDV increased 4.2-fold in dogs that ate dry foods containing citric acid when the food was moistened prior to feeding. Dry foods containing meat meal with bone among the first four ingredients significantly decreased GDV risk (53.0%). Approximately 30% of all cases of GDV in this study were attributed to consumption of dry foods containing fat among their first four ingredients, while 32% could be attributed to consumption of owner-moistened dry foods that also contained citric acid. Citric acid in the stomach is conducive to gas formation. So choosing your dog's diet is probably the most important thing you can do to prevent gastric dilatation/volvulus bloat and torsion.


I always give water with kibble (2 parts water to 1 part kibble) - my dog won't drink enough otherwise. I have noticed that with many kibbles, it will all bubble up when water is added. Citric acid will foam/bubble when added to water. I'm feeding Fromm Surf & Turf now and it doesn't bubble up at all.

The logic is that the reaction of citric acid + water produces excess gas.

I think it is pretty clear that something about food causes bloat. One article I read was talking about "fermentation gases." My gut instinct is that bloat is largely a product of kibble - specifically grain-heavy kibble. It slows the digestion - giving time for the food to ferment and build up gas. In true prey model feeding, it seems that most plant matter would be pre-fermented and exposed to air, allowing the fermentation gases to escape. It's my totally unprofessional and largely-uneducated opinion of the moment. Subject to change as I learn more. 

Are there any studies or surveys comparing bloat in raw-fed vs. kibble-fed dogs?


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## brad robert

I do it like anne just add water to kibble and feed.Interesting study although i cant see the difference in weather the food is soaked or the dog eats some kibble than drinks a ton of water and it sits in his gut and soaks and digests?? Beacause if it bubbles and stuff in the dish with water at least the gas can escape when it eats dry then drinks water the gas gets trapped?You would think the soaking would help.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Interesting..

It is Orijen I am going to feed. No soaking, just water added to kibble and fed right away.

No time to soak, no chance to add canned or moisten food.

I got a couple of pm's as well. I think I will add some water with the kibble, and do my best to ensure that he drinks when I can offer it. 

Since it is my thread....maybe I could add a second question?

How would folks feel about feeding dehydrated raw products like THK or N-R-G dry with the correct amount of cold water added on it without the soaking time? Would that bung the dog up...or be business as usual?


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## brad robert

why wouldnt you just hydrate the food then add to kibble and water for peace of mind.This also makes think about the rehydratable dry foods and weather they have citric acid in them ive never checked.

I know its a different off breed but sled dogs eat a lot of wet feed and some is dry watered and they seem to do alright:-| they also waterbait there dogs to take in extra water a couple of hours before running this could be kibble in water or a tasty fluid poured into some water.


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## Leslie Patterson

This is the only thing i can find right now about citric acid.
http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/on_my_soap_box_purdue_bloat_study.htm


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## Leslie Patterson

Leslie Patterson said:


> Don't know the cause but my dog bloated/stomach twisted about an hour or two after eating soaked Orijen kibble.


If there is a big difference, to be exact it was not soaked with water, water was just added.


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## Howard Gaines III

I use hot water and chicken broth in the winter. Bloat? I think if you exercise them after feeding you stand a great chance of it. After mine are fed, it's lights out and NO NOISE!


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## Jennifer Coulter

brad robert said:


> why wouldnt you just hydrate the food then add to kibble and water for peace of mind.This also makes think about the rehydratable dry foods and weather they have citric acid in them ive never checked.
> 
> I know its a different off breed but sled dogs eat a lot of wet feed and some is dry watered and they seem to do alright:-| they also waterbait there dogs to take in extra water a couple of hours before running this could be kibble in water or a tasty fluid poured into some water.


Just want to know all my options. Going on a trip where water, timing, and other things will present special challenges.


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## brad robert

i wasnt trying to be harsh jennifer i just thought if you got water to wet the dry put rehydratable in first let soak for a bit then dry and more water.

I also thought like howard in that a dog only gets bloat after exercising on a full stomach,im not sure if this rule still applies?Most vets have told me the same as have dog clubs.You would think it pretty hard to feed a dog then crate or kennel(sleep, rest) and it gets bloat maybe the gas could cause this to happen.


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## Anne Vaini

Jennifer,

I fed THK without soaking - wasn't a problem. I am of the opinion that dogs get more out of it if it is fully soaked though. It wasn't a routine thing.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Leslie Patterson said:


> Don't know the cause but my dog bloated/stomach twisted about an hour or two after eating soaked Orijen kibble.


Did your dog survive it? Exersice after eating or no?

I have to admitt that my dog is hyper after eating (night feeding especially) and has not always been rested after eating meals of all shapes and sizes.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Anne Vaini said:


> Jennifer,
> 
> I fed THK without soaking - wasn't a problem. I am of the opinion that dogs get more out of it if it is fully soaked though. It wasn't a routine thing.



Thanks for that Anne. Makes sense.


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## Carol Boche

Jennifer...

Not sure if this helps...but if/when I feed kibble my dogs drink more water than with raw. 

Maybe I am just lucky that way, but it seems to be that kibble without water is like popcorn without pop......

Jesea actually will bang her water bucket in her crate around til I give her more if she eats kibble.


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## Dan Long

A lot of the info I've read about bloat, and info given to me by our Dane's breeder, is that it's an older dog problem and has some genetic influence. As in, if your dog is genetically prone to bloat based on it's breeding lines, then you are probably more prone to it. Our Dane breeder has only ever had 1 dog bloat in all her breedings. It was an older dog. That doesn't mean I'm not going to take precautions. 

My personal, unscientific opinion based on my reading is I don't think food type has as much influence on bloating as their activity level before and after eating. I keep our dogs calm for at least 30 mins before feeding, and if we've been doing anything strenuous, I wait until they are not panting and are relaxed, and then wait another half hour or so. After feeding, they are kept calm for an hour or so. Not always easy, but it's something we are very aware of. 

Wetting food, not wetting food, feeding raw, feeding mixed raw and kibble, raising the food bowl, not raising the food bowl- every one of those factors has people who are for and against, they all have examples of dogs getting bloat, so there really isn't any scientific proof to me about any of those things. Maybe one good idea is the size of the meal- smaller meal, less chance for enough gas to develop. So maybe if you are worried about it feed more smaller meals per day vs one large one.


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## Alyssa Myracle

As an aside, if you are wetting kibble, make sure it is eaten promptly.

Kibble can have a fair amount of surface bacteria, and when wetted, that bacteria can multiply rapidly to an intolerable level to a dog, if left for too long a period of time. This is why dogs develop salmonella poisoning from eating kibble and yet we don't seem to have that problem in raw fed dogs (where logically, there should be more salmonella.)

If the kibble wasn't completely consumed within 30 minutes of wetting, I'd toss it.


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## Connie Sutherland

Anne Vaini said:


> Soaked kibble is a factor for bloat WHEN the kibble contains citric acid. So read your label or feed dry.


Yes, and Purdue says it's a 300% increase in risk of GDV.

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/dietrisk.htm


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## Connie Sutherland

Anne Vaini said:


> ... Are there any studies or surveys comparing bloat in raw-fed vs. kibble-fed dogs?


All that I have read so far is anecdotal. It's hard to round up enough raw-fed bloat-vulnerable breeds for the ongoing study.

The "other" kind of study, which says after the fact what the dog had been eating, of course favors raw (as less of a bloat-causer) because of the sheer disparity in the numbers of raw-fed and kibble-fed.

I keep reading the vet e-zines, though. I'd love to see a "real" study.


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## Leslie Patterson

Dan Long said:


> Wetting food, not wetting food, feeding raw, feeding mixed raw and kibble, raising the food bowl, not raising the food bowl- every one of those factors has people who are for and against, they all have examples of dogs getting bloat, so there really isn't any scientific proof to me about any of those things. Maybe one good idea is the size of the meal- smaller meal, less chance for enough gas to develop. So maybe if you are worried about it feed more smaller meals per day vs one large one.


True.


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## Leslie Patterson

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Did your dog survive it? Exersice after eating or no?



Yes, with emergency surgery. No exercising before. He is a crazy fast eater though. I think it was genetics, maybe a little stress.
His stomach twisted but the bloating wasn't noticeable.


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## Tiffany Geisen

leslie cassian said:


> I've been adding water to kibble for years. I don't soak it, just add about 1/2 cup or so to 1 1/2 cups kibble and set it down. Slows down my 'inhale every mouthful like it was his last' dog so that he doesn't choke on the dry stuff and gives him a bit of 'soup', too.
> 
> I had no idea it could be bad for them. Figured it was getting a bit of extra fluids into them and filling their bellies a little more.


Same reason why I ad water. If not my guys eat so fast they choke everytime. I don't soak just ad and give. I feed Purina ProPlan shredded formula and it doesn't foam at all.


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## Gerry Grimwood

If the dog gets thirsty he will drink water when you're able to give it or maybe eat snow in your case on his own.

If you are able to, take a few seal flippers or some beaver meat and add it to water, they can't resist that shit :wink: Joking of course, but it works and no bloat.


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## Connie Sutherland

Tiffany Geisen said:


> .... I feed Purina ProPlan shredded formula and it doesn't foam at all.


ProPlan has a pretty shaky ingredient list. JMO. Not the worst in the world (some foods actually have corn fractions in the top ingredient spot), but a long way from the best.

I know that you did not ask, and all I want to do is make you aware of the major ingredients in the ProPlan line .... many folks just have not read the package yet. 

The recipes are all about the same except for the meat protein. Here is the beef one: 

Beef, _brewers rice_, whole grain _wheat_, _corn gluten_ meal, poultry by-product meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), whole grain _corn_, _soy flour_, _soybean_ meal, etc.

And back to water on kibble!


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## Jennifer Coulter

Alyssa Myracle said:


> If the kibble wasn't completely consumed within 30 minutes of wetting, I'd toss it.


Yah..no problem there. Lucky if it was there for 30 seconds...water added or not. You think he would be snobby about kibble after eating raw, but it is like crack to him I swear


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## Jennifer Coulter

Carol Boche said:


> Jennifer...
> 
> Not sure if this helps...but if/when I feed kibble my dogs drink more water than with raw.
> 
> Maybe I am just lucky that way, but it seems to be that kibble without water is like popcorn without pop......
> 
> Jesea actually will bang her water bucket in her crate around til I give her more if she eats kibble.


Yah that is why I want to add some water at time of feeding. The dog drinks WAY more on kibble, but I will only have so much water available outside of feeding times. Snow will be available, but it is not good enough for hydrating.

The dog also has a bad habit of NOT drinking if kenneled or around other dogs working.

It will work out no problem, he will survive, just wanted to think about what my options were and see if it is something that is done by others.


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## Carol Boche

Ahhhh, I see....too much or not enough....you need a pointy eared dog...LOL

The Lab does this too.....he has learned though, to take water when offered when we travel though.


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## Jerry Lyda

A girl that trains with us has a GSD that bloated on water.


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## Leslie Patterson

Jerry Lyda said:


> A girl that trains with us has a GSD that bloated on water.


I also know someone whos GSD bloated from gluping water while swimming.


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## Howard Gaines III

Test the kibble...put some in warm water and watch how big it gets. I see cheaper corn basted foods doing it.


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## Howard Gaines III

Jerry Lyda said:


> A girl that trains with us has a GSD that bloated on water.


Jerry this is the reason when my dog is done, he only gets about 3 ounces or so of water. After he comes down to Earth, he can have more...some days he never comes down!!!!!!!!!!


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## Maren Bell Jones

Alyssa Myracle said:


> As an aside, if you are wetting kibble, make sure it is eaten promptly.
> 
> Kibble can have a fair amount of surface bacteria, and when wetted, that bacteria can multiply rapidly to an intolerable level to a dog, if left for too long a period of time. This is why dogs develop salmonella poisoning from eating kibble and yet we don't seem to have that problem in raw fed dogs (where logically, there should be more salmonella.)
> 
> If the kibble wasn't completely consumed within 30 minutes of wetting, I'd toss it.


We don't have that problem? How do you know? Just about every raw feeder I've talked to (myself included) has had random bouts of GI upsets and diarrhea for seemingly no reason. I'd say it's a pretty high likely of it being salmonella, E. coli, campylobacter, etc. Salmonella is salmonella. It doesn't care if it's on raw or kibble. The only real way you're going to be able to tell what the cause of blow out diarrhea is by doing culture and see what plates out. My youngest in particular tends to get random blow out diarrhea on raw (and many kinds of kibble). Whether that's because he's got mild IBD, doesn't do well with certain protein sources, or he's prone to salmonella, it's hard to say. But the "raw is magically protective" is just silly. Tossing the kibble after 30 minutes is probably a good idea though. It's *supposed* be sterile when it comes out of the bag, but it doesn't stay that way.


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## Connie Sutherland

Much experience makes me back up your post, Maren. :lol:

Dogs are far less susceptible to illness from food pathogens than people are, but not at all immune, on any kind of food.


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## Connie Sutherland

Maren Bell Jones said:


> ..... Tossing the kibble after 30 minutes is probably a good idea ..... *supposed* be sterile when it comes out of the bag, but it doesn't stay that way.


And, based on recalls, "supposed to be" isn't necessarily "is."


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## Tina Rempel

I think all of the dishes are empty within two minutes, if there was any food left after 30 mintues I would be calling the vet. I do add water to the kibble just to keep them from eating so fast, I've had a couple close calls of one choking on dry since she basically inhales her food. Adding some water slows them just enough there has been no more choking.


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## Chris McDonald

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Just want to know all my options. Going on a trip where water, timing, and other things will present special challenges.


 
How many days are you going to be in this situation?


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## Maren Bell Jones

Connie Sutherland said:


> And, based on recalls, "supposed to be" isn't necessarily "is."


That, and all those mysterious chicken jerky strips. Hmmm...


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## Chris McDonald

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Just want to know all my options. Going on a trip where water, timing, and other things will present special challenges.


 
What is causing the need for kibble instead of canned? Weight?


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## Lisa Emerson

Somewhat off-topic but regarding bloat, I've always found this article interesting.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Chris McDonald said:


> What is causing the need for kibble instead of canned? Weight?


Yes.


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## Jennifer Coulter

I ended up feeding the kibble and some dehydrated raw (seperate feedings)

I added water to the kibble for hydration reasons and had no issues. As I suspected the dog would not drink any water while on the backcountry portion of the trip (3 days) and though he may have gotten a bit dehydrated, he performed just fine.

Back to raw now.


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## Lisa Emerson

Re the actual question,  (sorry; didn't mean to be late in replying...) I often add water to my dogs' kibble immediately before they eat. They have never had any issue with it whatsoever. I feed Chicken Soup Puppy/Adult, Orijen Puppy/Adult/Senior, and Wellness CORE Reduced Fat.


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## Kris L. Christine

We have added water to Butter's food ever since he was a puppy because he never seems to drink water unless it is on his food. I've read in some places that putting water on the food helps prevent bloat because the dry food doesn't draw fluids when it's in the stomach.

Butter is not allowed to run for a full hour after he eats.


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