# Climbing Ladders !



## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

A quick video clip for your entertainment. I don't know how popular or achievable this type of training is, but I've never personally had a dog manage it previously.

Here's my 19 month old GSD bitch "Xena" tackling some ladders.

(please click on the link below)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KjrIN7maGgY

\\/


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Ladder training is good for dogs.
It builds confidence, trust, and most importantly, it lets them learn where their rear feet are.

Just don't leave any ladders laying against the house, or you'll be calling the Fire Dept to rescue your dog from your roof, LOL.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Just don't leave any ladders laying against the house, or you'll be calling the Fire Dept to rescue your dog from your roof, LOL.


yeah, very true.. 8-[ :-&


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## Jason Fox (Apr 30, 2007)

Good stuff as usual Gary! Keep up the great work and videos.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Good job! I do this with my dogs too. Going up is easy, going down is more of a challenge - and as I found out, my crazy mal would think nothing of jumping off the roof. How do you get Xena down?

Like Alyssa said - I once left a ladder and Candy ended up on the garage roof. Thank goodness she has some sense of self-preservation and didn't jump before I noticed and got her.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Anna Kasho said:


> Going up is easy, going down is more of a challenge - and as I found out, my crazy mal would think nothing of jumping off the roof. How do you get Xena down?


I carried her down. Like your Mal, my GSD will simply throw herself from any height to get down - without thought for her safety. So yeah, you're right, teaching them the down safely is a much harder task when you've got a 'balls out' dog..

I'm going to have to have a go at teaching her the climb down, but I'm guessing it's not going to be easy at all. The climbing up was relatively easy, apart from having to get her to slooooooow down a little.


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## Tom Moorcroft (Aug 27, 2008)

Awesome job! Control is key. Having a Mal who thinks a ladder is the same thing as running up the stairs in the house, I know how difficult it can be to achieve control. My favorite part was the down on the roof. That's awesome control and key to the dog's safety.

All dogs that pass the Federal and State Disaster Search Dog certification exams (FSA or fundamental skills assessment) are required to climb ladders to an elevated plank. State Disaster HRD dogs are required to do this, too. So there are a bunch of us out there who enjoy this type of training :smile:


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Tom Moorcroft said:


> Awesome job! My favorite part was the down on the roof. That's awesome control and key to the dog's safety.


Thanks Tom. I'm glad you noticed it 

I will often get her to 'DOWN' during agility exercises. For example, I'll have her hop on top of a bin/garbage can and then 'DOWN' up there.. it sometimes takes some fidgeting to get her legs and bum in position etc - but it's good for future control when you need it in an emergency.


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## Jane King (Nov 24, 2007)

:smile: Allways great to see Xena in action - she obviously enjoys working for you so much!

Do you have anything like the canine assualt course I took Dill on in Cheshire? That was great - cargo nets, ladders, swinging rope bridges........really fun! 

(I put some pics of Dill up in the photo thread, but I suppose as he's only a tiddler, nobody seemed to notice:-({|= )


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

its a nice skill to have, i have had the opportunity to do it operational onto flat roofs in 6 storey buildings etc , plus deploy the dog over roofs of varying height in order to gain access to buildings

Control & confidence of the dog i feel are the over riding factors, nice vid Gary


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Jane King said:


> Do you have anything like the canine assualt course I took Dill on in Cheshire? That was great - cargo nets, ladders, swinging rope bridges........really fun!


There's nothing like that near me. I didn't know there was one in Cheshire. I'll have to make a trip to that when i'm over the west some time.

At my club, we have the usual 6' scale, A frame, barrel jumps, cat walk etc - but nothing radical.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

A couple of yrs ago when I redid my garage roof I had to keep pulling the ladder up with me. My JRT wouldn't stay off of it. 
Seem he thought the ladder was so much more convenient then using his normal route to the roof via the rose trellis. :roll:


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

He just figured he finally had you trained.
'Bout time Dad got me a ladder.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

gary, she is SUCH a good girl!! so talented, and so lucky to have a handler that challenges her also.

now--wouldn't you train going down the ladder kind of like going up? ie, start with a ladder on a slight incline, then increase the incline? but, yeah, how to stop the "oh, i'll just bail off, i'm good"??


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

ann freier said:


> now--wouldn't you train going down the ladder kind of like going up? ie, start with a ladder on a slight incline, then increase the incline? but, yeah, how to stop the "oh, i'll just bail off, i'm good"??


Per suggestion of Anne Vaini - I really broke it down and taught Cyko to do one step at a time. On small stairs, where he couldn't bail off and break something. I can also direct him to step with "front foot" and "back foot" which helps a lot. High drive, ball as a reward. It's really a very mental thing for him, rather than physical. He has to concentrate and do each step AND STOP, and it's very hard for him to hold his GO-GO-GO drive in check... But he is doing MUCH better on the ladder. Although the descent is slow as hell, because I'm sure if I just let him go for it, he'd still jump. He really doesn't see the point of self-preservation.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Haha! Don't credit me! :lol: It's 2o-2o (2-on-2-off), a technique used for training contact points for Agility.

Anna,

If you want to move towards a faster pace, first teach your dog to back up into the 2o-2o position (with his hind feet on the bottom step and his front feet on the ground. Use big rewards.

Then set him up to come down steps faster. You WANT him to bail. Withold reward. Have him backup into 2o-2o and HUGE reward. To make this work, your reward needs to be more than the self-reward of jumping off.

I'm glad to hear it is working for you and your dog.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Hey!!! I think I have figured this video thing out… dam you people I though uploading video to youtube was only for 14 year olds. Anyway I got some video of Quinn playing around on ladders. I put this together a while ago and can’t figure out how to cut it, so its kind of long. Somewhere in there is some video of Quinn being lowered of a low roof via his lead and a tracking lead. I have lowered him down 40 ft walls via this method. He can go down almost any ladder except completely vertical ones. When he goes up the aluminum ladder in this video it is very sloppy, I have figured out how to make him do it much smoother now. He can go down the aluminum ladders but I usually harness him up for that when there high. He has gone up and down fully extended 40 footers. 
Where working on it! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIDK-Xsp_c


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Found another lower/lift you just going to have to watch the dog be abused for the first half of the video, its much shorter though. The lowering is a little more [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']challenging when I do it from the second story of the house. He then has to be told to “climb” when he gets to the first floor or “no clime” and keep on going to the basement. This video is me and him from the first floor [/FONT]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA6uCdYhm0w


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Superb videos Chris. . ! They piss all over mine.. #-o :-\" Now I've got something to aim for..

Well done mate.. great stuff.. =D>


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gary Garner said:


> Superb videos Chris. . ! They piss all over mine.. #-o :-\" Now I've got something to aim for..
> 
> Well done mate.. great stuff.. =D>


Thanks, but I cant take the credit for what he is doing. I’m just a puppet trying to learn to handle him. At least you trained yours from scratch. I’ve got some really cool other stuff floating around on video I got to find. 
One of these days I want to try to lower him via harness and swing him in to an open second story window to take a bite in the room. Working on it! 
I have also been taping rags to the rungs of the ladder with one of them being hot for dope and making him indicate on the right rag as he goes up or down. As I said “working on it”.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> Thanks, but I cant take the credit for what he is doing. I’m just a puppet trying to learn to handle him. At least you trained yours from scratch. I’ve got some really cool other stuff floating around on video I got to find.
> One of these days I want to try to lower him via harness and swing him in to an open second story window to take a bite in the room. Working on it!
> I have also been taping rags to the rungs of the ladder with one of them being hot for dope and making him indicate on the right rag as he goes up or down. As I said “working on it”.



What you're doing is what I try to do, and this is making things interesting for your dog and keeping them 'on the ball'. It's so easy for a high drive dog that wants to please, to become stale and disinterested in life. Things like ladder climbing and the other weird, wonderful and wacky things you're describing are ideal to keep the dog happy in life.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gary Garner said:


> What you're doing is what I try to do, and this is making things interesting for your dog and keeping them 'on the ball'. It's so easy for a high drive dog that wants to please, to become stale and disinterested in life. Things like ladder climbing and the other weird, wonderful and wacky things you're describing are ideal to keep the dog happy in life.


If I don’t do much with him for a day or two he drives me f-n nuts


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> If I don’t do much with him for a day or two he drives me f-n nuts


 
I know exactly what you mean :lol: But isn't he fun?

I need one of those monkey bar setups for Cyko :roll:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Anna Kasho said:


> I know exactly what you mean :lol: But isn't he fun?
> 
> I need one of those monkey bar setups for Cyko :roll:


 
Just go to the park, the kids love it, I keep him on lead then though


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I’m glad I could not figure out how to get my daughter out of the second video man my daughter and dog are cute I just watched it again


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Hey Gary, I got a few emails and private messages that my video is a little too much for this board, sorry man I kind of got your thread to quiet down. Somehow your dog on a ladder is great.. but not mine! I got some basic obedience video I will try to post it’s a little lower key. I kind of was hoping on getting a few responses good or bad on my handling skills or the lack of them. I’m just trying to get some info and learn, it sure beats the crazy chick though! I started two threads that got locked….. Anybody know the record?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

You guys at least have to give me the dog a kid are cute!


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

If the dog was climbing up there to kill a squirrel or something, that's one thing.

Just for the sake of doing it, I don't get...better to teach him to play poker and smoke ceegars  
He does look confident going up though, i gotta give him that.


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## Jason Fox (Apr 30, 2007)

Chris, thanks for posting. Very impressive!

It is not often that we get to see the full range of what the dogs are capable of (especially regarding advanced agility work). Thanks for sharing.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> If the dog was climbing up there to kill a squirrel or something, that's one thing.
> 
> Just for the sake of doing it, I don't get...better to teach him to play poker and smoke ceegars
> He does look confident going up though, i gotta give him that.


He still has to train to kill the squirrel! We don’t do it too often but it does have a few advantages and does add to other things. I can understand the safety issue, but I am third generation in the commercial industrial roofing industry and have been on ladders since I was three. I spent too many years 50 ft off the ground. It kind of makes it uneventful. I will keep that in mind in the future. As I said if things get hairy I will harness him up. For some reason if you were onsite watching it seems less eventful than it does on tape. Point taken! 
I don’t even know how to play poker; I would like him to bring me a beer though.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jason Fox said:


> Chris, thanks for posting. Very impressive!
> 
> It is not often that we get to see the full range of what the dogs are capable of (especially regarding advanced agility work). Thanks for sharing.


Thanks Jason, I’m open to anyone giving me advice on my performance. What I did wrong, right could change? I can take it


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Hey Gary, I got a few emails and private messages that my video is a little too much for this board,


Seriously????

I dunno, I don't think it's too much. The only thing I would change is maybe a different kind of harness so he's more horizontal for lowering. The angle at which he's lowered makes me worry about him slipping out of the harness. I'll have to look to see what type of harness I have - it's specially designed so the dog is balanced while being lowered.

Maybe you need to add a "don't try this at home" or "professional stunt dog on a closed course" type of disclaimer?? :grin:


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

All in all, I found your video to be entertaining, Chris.
The dog seemed to be enjoying the majority of what he was doing, although it looked like there were a few points where he displayed some avoidance (immediately after being lowered from the roof the first time, it appeared as though his tail was slightly tucked, and while he was on the wobble platform he appears to yawn.)
The dog appears happy to be working with you though, and the only thing I would recommend is perhaps some prey-driven activities mixed in to help remove a little of the stress than can build up.

Otherwise, he seems very eager to work for you, and your handling skills seem dead-on as well.
The only thing I noticed with your handling is the tendancy to praise "including the command".
I noticed it when the dog was on the wobble platform. You asked him to turn around, which he did very well, and so you praised him saying, "good turn around", whereupon he turned around again, mistaking the praise for another command.

Other than that, good communication between dog and handler, and it looked/sounded like you were both enjoying yourselves.
I suspect that in person, the heights the dog was at, aren't as high as they appear on the video. Sometimes camera angles can fool the viewer.

(And yes, your daughter is adorable.)



________________________________
"The crazy chic"


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> All in all, I found your video to be entertaining, Chris.
> The dog seemed to be enjoying the majority of what he was doing, although it looked like there were a few points where he displayed some avoidance (immediately after being lowered from the roof the first time, it appeared as though his tail was slightly tucked, and while he was on the wobble platform he appears to yawn.)
> The dog appears happy to be working with you though, and the only thing I would recommend is perhaps some prey-driven activities mixed in to help remove a little of the stress than can build up.
> 
> ...


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Seriously????
> 
> I dunno, I don't think it's too much. The only thing I would change is maybe a different kind of harness so he's more horizontal for lowering. The angle at which he's lowered makes me worry about him slipping out of the harness. I'll have to look to see what type of harness I have - it's specially designed so the dog is balanced while being lowered.
> 
> Maybe you need to add a "don't try this at home" or "professional stunt dog on a closed course" type of disclaimer?? :grin:


Konnie, we don’t use a “real” harness it is made from his lead that has clips and rings as needed and it is also attached to his prong collar that is inverted so the flat side is in, you can see me switch it around. He does often where a flat as well not at that moment. There is no pressure on the collar it just helps to stabilize things. You guys can call it as goofy as you want but it’s all about traveling light. Between the collar, the lead and a tracking line we can get up over or around pretty much anything. 
I think many just cant stand the dog is from Baden and all I took was a three day handles course. It’s all smoke and mirrors I think was the term used for Baden. Actually that’s not a dog in my video it’s all computer generated. The only things real are the turds in my yard.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Chris,
I don't think stress is bad for the dog either.
It can help the dog to focus and "get it right".

I just think it's good when all is said and done, and time permits, to help the dog release some of that stress with a nice game of tug or fetch. It helps the dog learn that stress is managable and will not last forever.

For all I know, you did that, since the video stops while the dog is still working.

I think you are spot on with naming offered behaviors, so that they can later be transitioned into commands.
For example, I never "taught" my dog to go to her bed and lay down. As a pup, I just told her "good lay down" when she did it, and eventually she made a connection.

There is nothing wrong with praising with the command, so long as you know that the dog may sometimes misinterpret that as an additional command. Tone and inflection can definitely increase the likelihood that the dog catches the difference between command and praise.

The only time I heard you correct the dog, was on the tree the first time when he jumped off instead of giving you a platz.
He got it right the second time.

Overall, both you and the dog did quite well.




> O no she is following me, she just setting me up for the kill. I’m gona pretend to be nice and see what happens


 
I'm not going to address this one, except to say that my attacks were never directed at you, but at Baden. I never attacked you personally, and the same civility would be nice in return.
I'd like to think reasonable people can disagree without mudslinging or becoming all-out enemies.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Like I've said Chris, I liked the video and I liked the fact the dog was doing the tasks without you close by...

What's he like in protection? Any videos? (link to a different thread of course  )

Regards,
Gary


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Chris,
> I don't think stress is bad for the dog either.
> It can help the dog to focus and "get it right".
> 
> ...


Is that what it is called “offered behaviors” new it had to have some kind of name. As far as the verbal warning and the tree it was kind of a half hearted warning because I think he was trying, but fell off. Got to cut him some slake for trying. And as you can see even though I think you are a nut job I am now being very civil. Your panties must have been all in a ruffle yesterday, maybe you changed them today. I even actually learned a new term from you today “offered behaviors”. If you got a problem with Baden they got a phone and email address. I know the answers too many of your questions but don’t feel it’s my business to be posting them on a public chat room. I’d have more respect for you if you attacked me personally rather than someone not even reading in. I don’t consider you an enemy in anyway, just [delete] *** MOD EDIT: Just saw this. Personal attacks are not acceptable on this board. We don't catch them all, although we try, but if we miss something, send a PM to me or any mod.***


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gary Garner said:


> Like I've said Chris, I liked the video and I liked the fact the dog was doing the tasks without you close by...
> 
> What's he like in protection? Any videos? (link to a different thread of course  )
> 
> ...


Ill work on it Gary I have some floating around, might take me a few days!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> If you got a problem with Baden they got a phone and email address. ....


That's the case with just about every trainer, school, product, etc., ever discussed on the board. 


Regardless, this thread is not a Baden thread.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

... and back to climbing ladders ......


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Konnie, we don’t use a “real” harness it is made from his lead that has clips and rings as needed and it is also attached to his prong collar that is inverted so the flat side is in, you can see me switch it around. He does often where a flat as well not at that moment. There is no pressure on the collar it just helps to stabilize things. You guys can call it as goofy as you want but it’s all about traveling light.


I didn't call it goofy, I just was making a suggestion. We do lots of raising and lowering with our dogs. I don't think I'd personally do it without my specialized harness, but if I was in a pinch and didn't have a harness, then I'd have to make do with whatever. I think it would be interesting to see how you put together the makeshift harness. Maybe you could start a new thread with a pic of your dog with the "leash-harness" all put together?




> The only things real are the turds in my yard.


Funny!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> I didn't call it goofy, I just was making a suggestion. We do lots of raising and lowering with our dogs. I don't think I'd personally do it without my specialized harness, but if I was in a pinch and didn't have a harness, then I'd have to make do with whatever. I think it would be interesting to see how you put together the makeshift harness. Maybe you could start a new thread with a pic of your dog with the "leash-harness" all put together?
> 
> Sorry I know you did not call it goofy, I was referring to the whole traveling light comment I made, I thought my comment was a little goofy. I can only fit so much stuff in my truck! For me it’s much more likely that I have is lead and a tracking line. I never *have to* lift or lower so for the few times we do it I feel the lead works. In your case I can see the need for a harness; you guys do the real deal. I fall into the wanna be category. I got a working dog on welfare. I will work on a few more videos over the next few weeks I’m not the most fluent at getting them together.


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