# Should a disaster SAR dog be cross trained?



## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

I am looking for some constructive criticism:

I was thinking about training my Mali for disaster SAR. He is a working explosive/demo/sport dog. He has also worked as a patrol/trailing dog (in Israel). I will be showing him soon for a PSA 1. He is also in training for AKC ob/agility.
He is social, when he wants to be. However, he is very work minded.


I'm looking for pros and cons:

Will I have problems going for Cert. if they know he bites?

Is everyone certifying for disaster SAR and the last thing we need is another dog?

If we decide yes, is a bark alert a no no? or maybe a down? (he sits for ED)

I Iive 3 minutes from NYC. I would just like to give back.*


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Hi Jonathan:
There are 2 disaster SAR teams in your state, and a few more within a couple hours drive of NYC. If you're really interested in USAR, I suggest you look up one of these teams. There's no need for a solo handler and K9 at a disaster. Too dangerous and risky. I can give you contact info for all of these teams if you're interested. The NYTF-1 canine component consists only/entirely of NYC Police Canines. That's the team based in NYC. They don't allow "civilian" canines, so you'd have to look at joining one of the other nearby teams. 

Also, the biggest problem I would see with cross training your dog in USAR isn't the sport protection training, it's the ED training. It's generally frowned upon to cross-train a USAR dog for other odors, and I'm pretty sure it's a big no-no to cross train an ED dog for other odors as well.

Your best bet, if you're truly interested in USAR, is to get another dog appropriate for the work. A USAR dog is traditionally trained to do a bark alert. A down would be useless when the dog is working out of sight, which is often the case in disaster SAR work.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Konnie Hein said:


> Also, the biggest problem I would see with cross training your dog in USAR isn't the sport protection training, it's the ED training. It's generally frowned upon to cross-train a USAR dog for other odors, and I'm pretty sure it's a big no-no to cross train an ED dog for other odors as well.
> .



None of the credible ED programs, that I am aware of, permit training on any odor other than explosives. I don't even believe a SAR dog should be trained on cadaver. The living always comes first and there is no such thing as a perfect dog. 

DFrost


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## Hilde Van Durme (Feb 9, 2010)

My dog is trained in PSA as you call it but the Belgian version (Fieldwork) and is training here in French Ring and I started recently training here in SAR wilderness. It has its advantages if your dog already knows to go forwards and search and bark when found and that they are familiar with retrieving their favorite toy and the obedience part is also very welcome.
I couldn't have done it with my oldest Malinois because he was trained the full way in Belgian Fieldwork and that means search and biting in...oeps


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## Hilde Van Durme (Feb 9, 2010)

David Frost said:


> None of the credible ED programs, that I am aware of, permit training on any odor other than explosives. I don't even believe a SAR dog should be trained on cadaver.* The living always comes first* and there is no such thing as a perfect dog.
> 
> DFrost


You are absolutely right David, the living come first but we decided to start with three teams, two for living (one search team and one confirmation team) and one for cadavers. You know its also important for the families to retrieve their dead ones if possible...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Hilde Van Durme said:


> You are absolutely right David, the living come first but we decided to start with three teams, two for living (one search team and one confirmation team) and one for cadavers. You know its also important for the families to retrieve their dead ones if possible...


Retrieving the dead absolutely is important. It should never take precedence over the living. 

DFrost


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

Konnie Hein said:


> Hi Jonathan:
> There are 2 disaster SAR teams in your state, and a few more within a couple hours drive of NYC. If you're really interested in USAR, I suggest you look up one of these teams. There's no need for a solo handler and K9 at a disaster. Too dangerous and risky. I can give you contact info for all of these teams if you're interested. The NYTF-1 canine component consists only/entirely of NYC Police Canines. That's the team based in NYC. They don't allow "civilian" canines, so you'd have to look at joining one of the other nearby teams.
> 
> Also, the biggest problem I would see with cross training your dog in USAR isn't the sport protection training, it's the ED training. It's generally frowned upon to cross-train a USAR dog for other odors, and I'm pretty sure it's a big no-no to cross train an ED dog for other odors as well.
> ...


Thank you Konnie, for answering my question. I wasn't so much worried about the bite work, but the ED too. I wish I could get another dog right now, but I have 6 dogs at the moment. I work detection dogs. I need my working dogs to make my living. I wish I could raise a pup only on human odor. Maybe the next one. 

Thank you again.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I don't know what all the non dog related requirements are to be part of a USAR team, but I do know that for wilderness the dog is just a tool and there is so much more other stuff that really soaks up your time.

SAR takes an enormous chunk of time plus money plus most of my PTO.

I know many folks multitask at this but it is often so much more than most people think.


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