# Bin Laden Is DEAD



## Lee H Sternberg

Need I say more? We got him!


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## Jerry Lyda

Yea, Good job. Who's next


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## Joby Becker

Yaaaaaaay!


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## Lee H Sternberg

Time for a drink!\\/


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## Nancy Jocoy

And waiting for the formal announcement / details on whitehouse.gov

Supposed to start streaming now at 1120 - was 1030


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle

F**k yeah!!!!!


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## Joby Becker

funniest part is I am watching that toolbag Heraldo Rivera, and he slipped up and actually said something like :

If *Obama* is dead, I don't care how they did it....LOL LOL


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## Maren Bell Jones

Jonathan Hoffnagle said:


> F**k yeah!!!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI


As cool as it is...I have to fly from St. Louis to Salt Lake City tomorrow for an externship/job interview. YIKES...


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## Connie Sutherland

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/01/3593735/video-osama-bin-laden-found-in.html


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## Maren Bell Jones

Joby Becker said:


> funniest part is I am watching that toolbag Heraldo Rivera, and he slipped up and actually said something like :
> 
> If *Obama* is dead, I don't care how they did it....LOL LOL


My husband had a rather amusing thought. He thought they should have given the honor to Beck so he could have a legitimate reason to cry on air. \\/


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## Jim Nash

I hope it was slow and painfull .


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## Harry Keely

Never been more happy in my life I am glad that all of NYC and our military are finally getting some justice from this. Now bring our men and women home.

Oh yea and thanks to whom ever it was that was the principal hitter on taking his ass out.


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## Joby Becker

Maren Bell Jones said:


> My husband had a rather amusing thought. He thought they should have given the honor to Beck so he could have a legitimate reason to cry on air. \\/


I liked Beck, for a while, got too depressing and religious for me in the last year or so though...I can see why the ratings dropped off...I stopped watching him regularly, but would check back from time to time. 

That guy exposed A LOT of things, that no one ever was able to dispute. facts are facts...whether people want them known or not.

I have always hated Heraldo....he is a toolbag in my book...

I like Hannity too, I am a conservative, but I dont need the stuff POUNDED in my head repeatedly on a daily basis, and he repeats so much stuff....it gets irritating...

O'Reilly is kinda soft for me, but more mainstream..and is entertaining...

I mostly watch the FOX busniess network now, Cavuto, Imus, and Stuart Varney mostly, with a little Judge "The Ape Man" Napolitano and Stossel thrown in to get my blood boiling if I start relaxing too much....to keep things in perspective...

It is about time they got the son of a bitch....


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## Megan Bays

I would LOVE to have seen the high five after that shot! 

:twisted::lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg

We are all united in wanting Bin Laden dead. Please be careful as we celebrate to stay off the political stuff or this thread is going to get locked up.[-X


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## Joby Becker

Lee H Sternberg said:


> We are all united in wanting Bin Laden dead. Please be careful as we celebrate to stay off the political stuff or this thread is going to get locked up.[-X


I didnt realize that talking about TV shows was political.. But who knows..


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## Maren Bell Jones

Megan Bays said:


> I would LOVE to have seen the high five after that shot!
> 
> :twisted::lol:


The pres said there was a fire fight (I think), so I bet the high five had to wait for a little bit. ;-) It's cool no Americans or civilians were harmed though.


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## Bob Scott

This actually happened a week or so ago but the news was held back until DNA could verify that it actually was him. This is aka Fox News.
As Lee commented, lets be careful and not get political with this.


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## catherine hardigan

There are some enlisted men who just wrote themselves into the history books. Hopefully they enjoy their hero status into a ripe old age!

We're leaving Afghanistan now, right? Right? Never mind... how foolish of me.


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## Joby Becker

DNA tests CAN be done quickly???


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## Ashley Campbell

I heard about this tonight, all I can say is I hope that f*cker rots in the deepest pit in hell...for all those lost on 9/11, for my friends I've lost during their deployments, and a few other things.


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## James Idi

> Yea, Good job. Who's next



Zawahiri.


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## Carmen van de Kamp

This topic was 1 of the first things I read this morning, it sounded so unreal that it took until I was in the car & hearing it on the radio (didn't look at the link at home) that it really hit me.....

A historic day for not only the USA...


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## catherine hardigan

Maren Bell Jones said:


> It's cool no Americans or civilians were harmed though.


Actually, it cost thousands of lives, many of our freedoms, and our economy. 

I think headlines calling Osama's death a "defining moment" in the war on terror/al Qaeda is misleading. Americans are going to be feeling pretty good right now, but our happiness is not equal to real change in the world.

There has not been much evidence that bin Laden is necessary to the growing Wahabist movement. In fact that is part of the point: since he was driven into the mountaints, the movement has shown every sign of lacking the kind of leadership he could actively provide pre-9/11.

So, bin Laden's absence really makes no difference to the people on the ground. Killing him may bring about a certain _lese majeste_, but broke, angry, crazed militants aren't suddenly going to become less broke, less desperate, less angry, or more interested in joining the global economy.

It's not like I miss the guy. But we're all adults here. We know the symbol is not an actual substitute for the real thing. 

...Right?


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## Alice Bezemer

Bin Laden is dead....welldeserved and I hope it was painfull!


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## Bob Scott

"A historic day for not only the USA..."

Well said Carmen! He was a threat to the world, not just the US. 

Symbolic or otherwise, it had to be done!


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## Maren Bell Jones

catherine hardigan said:


> Actually, it cost thousands of lives, many of our freedoms, and our economy.
> 
> I think headlines calling Osama's death a "defining moment" in the war on terror/al Qaeda is misleading. Americans are going to be feeling pretty good right now, but our happiness is not equal to real change in the world.
> 
> There has not been much evidence that bin Laden is necessary to the growing Wahabist movement. In fact that is part of the point: since he was driven into the mountaints, the movement has shown every sign of lacking the kind of leadership he could actively provide pre-9/11.
> 
> So, bin Laden's absence really makes no difference to the people on the ground. Killing him may bring about a certain _lese majeste_, but broke, angry, crazed militants aren't suddenly going to become less broke, less desperate, less angry, or more interested in joining the global economy.
> 
> It's not like I miss the guy. But we're all adults here. We know the symbol is not an actual substitute for the real thing.
> 
> ...Right?


Erm...yeah. I wasn't making light of the nearly 10 year old conflict with bin Laden (nearly 20 if you count other instances). And I realize it's bigger than one person. That being said, he was certainly no friend of the United States or anywhere else. I'll let you all know how the airport security checks go tomorrow when I fly out...


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## Ashley Campbell

Probably worse, Ft Carson is at force con Bravo (normally alpha) so they have heightened security - have fun at the airport.


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## Jhun Brioso

This news really MADE MY DAY! Justice is served to all 9/11 victims!


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## Jerry Lyda

I'm hearing that he wasn't killed a week ago. I'm hearing now that it was just a couple of days ago now. Talk is cheap so really I don't know when he was killed.


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## Christopher Jones

Theres a couple of things which just dont make sense with what has been reported at the moment. He was "killed" Sunday, so yesterday. They said they have done DNA testing and confirmed its him. DNA testing takes 2 days to complete in a lab. You got to get the samples to the Lab first. Secondly he apparently surrendered, yet they decided to shoot him in the head. Why wouldnt they take him alive, have him shackled and in court, then executed? 
They then flew his dead body to Afganistan and then flew him to a ship and threw his body in the water????? So no body? No pictures? DNA testing inconsitancies? Dont take him alive for trial when he surrenders? I can understand why they wouldnt want him taking the stand with all the dirty secrets he would have in his dealings with the USA.
Maybe some more info might come to light in the next few days, but the conspiracy theorists will be all over this one.


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## Gerald Guay

Killing him is the best solution. Putting him on trial would have brought organized violent protests and bombings, during the lengthy trial, in many Islamic countries causing all kinds of havoc around the world. Being killed right out is a sign of weakness to his organization and the knowledge that the USA will eventually catch up to you.

Things will now never be the same. Either Al-Qaeda will fade away, we hope, but most likely this will lead to increased terrorism against the USA and it's allies for a while from independent pseudo Al-Qaeda groups around the world who will now act on their own. Expect more but smaller incidents, at least on the short term until the movement, like everything else in this changing world of ours, fades away.

Have a good day our American friends,

Gerald in Canada


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## susan tuck

Here is what I have been reading:

1. DNA testing is underway (obviously not completed)
2. Osama bin Laden was killed in a firefight

Of course over the next few days and weeks the news media will be advancing any and all stories, regardless of whether they are credible or not, because news media really isn't all that concerned with reporting facts. Checking their sources went out the window when get the story first became the priority. Hence they will provide fertile grounds and a field day for all the lunatic conspiracy theorists to indulge their fantasies.


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## Edward Egan

This is fantastic news for sure!!! Finally that bastard is dead!!! May the families and friends of those lost in the 911 attack have a day filled celebration.

I just read the news account on Yahoo and they said a firefight had ocurred. Also that a female human shield was killed. Sorry about that, but hey we didn't hold her up in front of them, they did!

In the coming days we will see how organized Al-Qaeda is, if an retaliatory attack happend quickly then they still have it together, if not then it would seem they are finally being reduced to piss ant status.


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## catherine hardigan

Christopher Jones said:


> Theres a couple of things which just dont make sense with what has been reported at the moment. He was "killed" Sunday, so yesterday. They said they have done DNA testing and confirmed its him. DNA testing takes 2 days to complete in a lab. You got to get the samples to the Lab first. Secondly he apparently surrendered, yet they decided to shoot him in the head. Why wouldnt they take him alive, have him shackled and in court, then executed?
> They then flew his dead body to Afganistan and then flew him to a ship and threw his body in the water????? So no body? No pictures? DNA testing inconsitancies? Dont take him alive for trial when he surrenders? I can understand why they wouldnt want him taking the stand with all the dirty secrets he would have in his dealings with the USA.
> Maybe some more info might come to light in the next few days, but the conspiracy theorists will be all over this one.


I agree, Chris. There was no way he would be taken alive... too much embarrassment all around. And the fact that he was killed in an expensive villa, in an upscale suburban area, really clearly defines the fact that killing him the last 10 years was not that big a priority for us or our Pakistani "allies."

But a dead or captured bin Laden would have been less useful to the U.S. war machine. Do you think the American population would have stood for the war in Iraq in 2003? Probably not since this war was sold to the public on the (false) Osama bin Laden-Saddam Hussein link.

It is somehow sickening to see so many people celebrating his death in the streets. What are we, a bunch of snuff film aficionados? There is no dignity in spazzing out over someone's death... even that of an evil man whom we once used to fight our proxy war against the USSR.

So, Chris, it is my estimation that nothing here in the States is really any different. The loss of our civil liberties is permanent; the soldiers and civilians lost will never return. In a quixotic "war on terror" there can never be any final victory and there was never intended to be.

But maybe Donald Trump will ask for proof.


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## Joby Becker

If he was hiding in a hole in the ground, he would have been taken alive, is my guess..But he was NOT hiding in a hole in the ground.

Putting him on TRIAL would have been one of the stupidest and ridiculous things to do.

He would get a tribunal and killed in secret.

He took credit for 9/11 and multiple other attacks. He publicaly declared WAR on the US and pretty much everyone else...

He was not a criminal defendant, does not deserve the rights of a criminal defendant.

He has not had an operational role in Al Qaeda for 8 years or so, he was a figure head, Al Qaeda is not going to disappear, he will be a martyr.


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## Edward Egan

catherine hardigan said:


> I agree, Chris. There was no way he would be taken alive... too much embarrassment all around. And the fact that he was killed in an expensive villa, in an upscale suburban area, really clearly defines the fact that killing him the last 10 years was not that big a priority for us or our Pakistani "allies."
> 
> But a dead or captured bin Laden would have been less useful to the U.S. war machine. Do you think the American population would have stood for the war in Iraq in 2003? Probably not since this war was sold to the public on the (false) Osama bin Laden-Saddam Hussein link.
> 
> It is somehow sickening to see so many people celebrating his death in the streets. What are we, a bunch of snuff film aficionados? There is no dignity in spazzing out over someone's death... even that of an evil man whom we once used to fight our proxy war against the USSR.
> 
> So, Chris, it is my estimation that nothing here in the States is really any different. The loss of our civil liberties is permanent; the soldiers and civilians lost will never return. In a quixotic "war on terror" there can never be any final victory and there was never intended to be.
> 
> But maybe Donald Trump will ask for proof.


Catherine, your distortion of the facts seems to hint of an agenda of political nature. I for one, not interested in your political views.

Eddie


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## David Frost

Jim Nash said:


> I hope it was slow and painfull .


Imagine how pissed off he's going to be when he finds out there isn't 140 virgins waiting on him, ha ha ha ha.

DFrost


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## David Ruby

catherine hardigan said:


> Actually, it cost thousands of lives, many of our freedoms, and our economy.


That is not what she was talking about.



> I think headlines calling Osama's death a "defining moment" in the war on terror/al Qaeda is misleading.


No, they are not. It marks the relentlessness went through to get the admitted architect of the most blatant terrorist attack on the U.S.



> There has not been much evidence that bin Laden is necessary to the growing Wahabist movement. In fact that is part of the point: since he was driven into the mountaints, the movement has shown every sign of lacking the kind of leadership he could actively provide pre-9/11.
> 
> *So, bin Laden's absence really makes no difference to the people on the ground.* Killing him may bring about a certain _lese majeste_, but broke, angry, crazed militants aren't suddenly going to become less broke, less desperate, less angry, or more interested in joining the global economy.


Yes, it does. We can work to make things better. However, when somebody acts as a figurehead to give people an outlet and push a bunch of angry, broke, desperate people to direct that emotion into one target, it makes it much harder to actually make meaningful change.



> It's not like I miss the guy. But we're all adults here. We know the symbol is not an actual substitute for the real thing.
> 
> ...Right?


People have rallied around figureheads, martyrs, and ideas before. Killing Bin Laden helps remove a possible catalyst for terrorists and acts as a deterrent. If the U.S. Government can track a terrorist leader ten years later who has been pretty incognito to an isolated compound that virtually nobody knew about in the middle of nowhere, it makes it less attractive an idea to orchestrate something like that in the future if you know it is just a matter of time until you are hunted down & killed. If Bin Laden gets away forever unscathed, it probably acts as an inspiration to those who are like-minded.

Besides, what were they supposed to do? Just say, "oh well, sure he killed thousands of people including attacks on our Pentagon, World Trade Center, and a failed attempt likely on the White House, but he's laying low and it's been like ten years, let's just drop it"? Really, this was the only solution to that sort of an attack. The ramifications seem pretty fundamental.

-Cheers


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## Jennifer Michelson

CNN just announced that the DNA results came back as a match.


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## Lee H Sternberg

David Frost said:


> Imagine how pissed off he's going to be when he finds out there isn't 140 virgins waiting on him, ha ha ha ha.
> 
> DFrost


I always knew that wasn't possible because all 140 virgins are waiting for ME!!!!:-D=D>


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## Guest

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I always knew that wasn't possible because all 140 virgins are waiting for ME!!!!:-D=D>


Are there really that many virgins out there now a days?


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## catherine hardigan

I am sorry if I offended you, Eddie, with my jab at Trump... I thought it was prescient. But since he is a celebrity and holds no public office I don't see how it is "political."

As for anything else: I have written nothing untrue; actually, it is all pretty common knowledge. The burden of our conduct as a nation falls on all our shoulders, not just one group or individual, and I don't think my post implies otherwise.


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## David Ruby

catherine hardigan said:


> It is somehow sickening to see so many people celebrating his death in the streets. What are we, a bunch of snuff film aficionados? There is no dignity in spazzing out over someone's death... even that of an evil man whom we once used to fight our proxy war against the USSR.


There IS dignity in joy over justice being done and some balance or karma restored. This is not necessarily a celebration of death. For some, sure. I will not begrudge them that. I think the need for justice is ingrained pretty heavily in us. I really feel nothing over his death per se except that it was earned. However, I feel a sense of shock and joy that some sense of justice was done. He truly got what he deserved.

As for "are we a bunch of snuff film aficionados" that is a pretty weak argument. First, as a species we have enjoyed much more blatant blood sports than a CNN news report and can in fact find much worse on the Internet. Your argument seems terribly mis-aimed. However, looking at that claim for a minute, call it what you want, people generally want there to be consequences. If somebody does something terrible, in this case the death of thousands, and dies, why should we not feel joy? A threat has been removed, he was punished in the most natural of consequences, and there is some sense of justice and closure for those who remember somebody, friend or family, who died or was involved in the conflict on any level.



> So, Chris, it is my estimation that nothing here in the States is really any different. The loss of our civil liberties is permanent; the soldiers and civilians lost will never return. In a quixotic "war on terror" there can never be any final victory and there was never intended to be.


And yet, we have killed Bin Laden, captured & killed Hussein for that matter, taken away the significant "success story" for terrorists, and not had any major attacks on U.S. since. Those seem like pretty big steps. As for the "Quixotic War on Terror" there is a kernel of truth to that. We can never completely eradicate ANY of the major problems. Life will be a constant struggle. That does not mean we should not fight to make the world better. Part of that is eliminating threats. It should also be about making life better for everybody. It is not like I think nothing but good decisions (or results) have come from what's happened the past decade. Certainly the backing of groups that would eventually end up becoming enemies to America is neither unprecedented nor a particularly positive outcome. Still, not every life lost was in vain, there will always be evil things in the world that we can never entirely remove, and as Americans we still have it pretty well. Poking fingers at things that are not perfect and second-guessing from the safety of the hindsight of history is one thing. Finding some viable solution that we as a nation (or world) can agree to act upon that is better? Be my guest.

In this case, Al Qaeda forced our hand, this is the end result we knew was going to happen, and I am proud that we finally put an end to this chapter. It does not mean we win and nobody will ever bother us again. It _does_ mean we set out what we as a nation asked for and set out to do. All things being told, we should feel some sense of accomplishment, joy tempered by the realities of what led us down this road in the first place.

-Cheers


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## Jim Nash

Chris, I think you are goig to hear a lot of crazy stuff down there . Australians seem to e big into conspiracy theories . I got a new one for you . Catherine isn't who she seems to be . Just a theory .


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## Chris McDonald

catherine hardigan said:


> Actually, it cost thousands of lives, many of our freedoms, and our economy.
> 
> I think headlines calling Osama's death a "defining moment" in the war on terror/al Qaeda is misleading. Americans are going to be feeling pretty good right now, but our happiness is not equal to real change in the world.
> 
> There has not been much evidence that bin Laden is necessary to the growing Wahabist movement. In fact that is part of the point: since he was driven into the mountaints, the movement has shown every sign of lacking the kind of leadership he could actively provide pre-9/11.
> 
> So, bin Laden's absence really makes no difference to the people on the ground. Killing him may bring about a certain _lese majeste_, but broke, angry, crazed militants aren't suddenly going to become less broke, less desperate, less angry, or more interested in joining the global economy.
> 
> It's not like I miss the guy. But we're all adults here. We know the symbol is not an actual substitute for the real thing.
> 
> ...Right?


 
All I get out of this is we got a lot more people to kill. I hope we get to it, I hate taking my shoes of when I fly.


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## Edward Egan

catherine hardigan said:


> I am sorry if I offended you, Eddie, with my jab at Trump... I thought it was prescient. But since he is a celebrity and holds no public office I don't see how it is "political."
> 
> As for anything else: I have written nothing untrue; actually, it is all pretty common knowledge. The burden of our conduct as a nation falls on all our shoulders, not just one group or individual, and I don't think my post implies otherwise.


Thanks for your apology. I will not argue with you about the points of your post as it to me involves politics which will do nothing other than get this thread locked. Lets just say it has nothing to do with Trump or dog training ha,ha (the first sentence ever with Trump and Dog training included). What you call common knowledge includes in part what I call common rhetoric.


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## Mo Earle

I say thankyou to our military men that did the job, job well done-it might have taken a long time, but we prevailed - I don't care that Bin Laden is fish food now- I am glad they can't honor him at a shrine sight- I am sure we pissed of some that are going to try to come after us-or maybe they will know, the USA will not forget, not give up.... also after Hilter was taken out, the Nazi's faded-hopefully the same will be of AlQueda crap.


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## catherine hardigan

I hear you, David, and I agree with some of what you say.

Personally, I don't think it is incumbent upon the U.S. to eliminate threats throughout the world. We need to become better at saying "Sorry, but that is not our problem," at least in terms of sending troops overseas. We have really shot ourselves in the foot with the whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" ethos. And we could take some steps in neutralizing bad will towards ourselves simply by being less brash. For example, bin Laden used the presence of our bases in Saudi Arabia (built in 1990 during Desert Storm) as a rallying cry to expel foreign occupiers. After all, Saudi Arabia is home to the two holiest sites in Islam, Mecca and Medina, yet we did not get out of SA until 2003. I think this is a really great example of America needlessly pissing people off. 

But now bin Laden is dead, thank goodness, and I hope people feel some sense of closure. It sounds like he was killed by special forces working in coordination with the CIA and the Pakistanis. Nobody knows the details, but this is the sort of joint effort that probably could have taken Osama down many years ago without invading Afghanistan or Iraq, and without all the money spent and loss of life. I do not think his death means that we will be left alone. And learning from past mistakes is not second-guessing from the safety of an armchair, it is intelligence.

I think ultimately, David, you and I simply have two different ideas as to value. Clearly I am not willing to pay as high a price to manufacture peace and stability in the Middle East... I'd rather have my civil liberties and less national debt.

Either way, I am happy that polite, informed dialogue can take place on this board.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

WHAT ??? He was in Pakistan in a house 8 times larger than the rest of the houses ?? 

Now what ?? The war is over and everyone comes home to add to the unemployment ?? LOL 

It couldn't be that in death, we created a Martyr much stronger than the man himself.............................. Noooooooooooooo, couldn't be.


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## todd pavlus

This is great, but lets not forget the real reason the US Government is there $$$$$$$
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html


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## David Ruby

catherine hardigan said:


> I hear you, David, and I agree with some of what you say.


Ditto. 



> Personally, I don't think it is incumbent upon the U.S. to eliminate threats throughout the world. We need to become better at saying "Sorry, but that is not our problem," at least in terms of sending troops overseas. We have really shot ourselves in the foot with the whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" ethos. And we could take some steps in neutralizing bad will towards ourselves simply by being less brash. For example, bin Laden used the presence of our bases in Saudi Arabia (built in 1990 during Desert Storm) as a rallying cry to expel foreign occupiers. After all, Saudi Arabia is home to the two holiest sites in Islam, Mecca and Medina, yet we did not get out of SA until 2003. I think this is a really great example of America needlessly pissing people off.


I think there is truth in that. At minimal, the U.S. could have been more selective in our foreign affairs.



> But now bin Laden is dead, thank goodness, and I hope people feel some sense of closure. It sounds like he was killed by special forces working in coordination with the CIA and the Pakistanis. Nobody knows the details, but this is the sort of joint effort that probably could have taken Osama down many years ago without invading Afghanistan or Iraq, and without all the money spent and loss of life. * I do not think his death means that we will be left alone. And learning from past mistakes is not second-guessing from the safety of an armchair, it is intelligence.*


I think his death diminishes if not entirely eliminates one threat from people who would (and given time, probably will) try to harm the U.S. in one fashion or another. As for the "learning from past mistakes" I half-agree with you. Amicably so, however. I believe it is possible, paramount even, to learn from history. However, it is also important to realize (for me at least) the pressures in place and the information available at the time decisions were made.



> I think ultimately, David, you and I simply have two different ideas as to value. Clearly I am not willing to pay as high a price to manufacture peace and stability in the Middle East... I'd rather have my civil liberties and less national debt.


I would agree. As to what price I think we should pay and my values in the idea, I think it is a very convoluted issue. I'm conflicted about some of it to be honest. I won't bog the board down with my beliefs nor get this locked with political rhetoric that nobody cares about anyway. Needless to say, we probably have different views of this. Which I'm fine with. Largely, I think it is fine and understandable to feel some sense of relief and even happiness over this without it being akin to us being a bunch of people worshiping death or gleefully relishing over the thought of people dying. The rest is probably the stuff we could debate for years and just never agree upon, which again, is totally fine.



> Either way, I am happy that polite, informed dialogue can take place on this board.


Yeah, miracles do happen, even on the Internet. 

-Cheers


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## David Ruby

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> WHAT ??? He was in Pakistan in a house 8 times larger than the rest of the houses ??
> 
> Now what ?? The war is over and everyone comes home to add to the unemployment ?? LOL
> 
> It couldn't be that in death, we created a Martyr much stronger than the man himself.............................. Noooooooooooooo, couldn't be.


So if he is never caught he is the ultimate symbol for defiance against America, if he is caught he costs millions of dollars to take to trial and ultimately end up in jail for life as a living symbol of the man who single-handedly created the biggest terrorist attack on America just living pretty peacefully (death threats aside) in prison or (more likely) just getting the death sentence anyway, and if he dies he ends up a martyr.

Concerning the martyrdom, I suppose we'll have to see. Other crazy cult leaders have NOT gone on to be more powerful martyrs following their death.

Not to be a cynic, and this is kind of a rhetorical question, but what's the "good" choice in that virtual 3-way catch-22? Where is the way out of that mess? If there is no good choice, they sort of did the one that made the most sense as the least-of-all-evils.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby

todd pavlus said:


> This is great, but lets not forget the real reason the US Government is there


Can't we? Just for a day, even? There's no way you can directly correlate a nearly year-old story about mineral deposits and them just happening to stumble across Bin Laden in some out-of-the-way mansion in Pakistan. I'm pretty sure the SWAT team was in Pakistan at the highly-secured mansion looking for bin Laden, not more mineral reserves inside the house and bam!, he just happened to be there.

That and this will get locked up pretty quick if we bring that into the conversation. So maybe we could just leave that until tomorrow or something?

-Cheers


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## Erin Suggett

I am _thrilled_...FINALLY!! =D>


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## Chris McDonald

todd pavlus said:


> This is great, but lets not forget the real reason the US Government is there $$$$$$$
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html


 
Ha they have been going hungry for a few hundred years and all this time and there sitting on a trillion in commodities that we had to find. That’s funny


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## David Frost

This thread is for those that wish to reflect on Bin Ladens death. It is not a political stump for either side. Keep the politics out of it. 

DFrost


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## todd pavlus

David Ruby said:


> Can't we? Just for a day, even? There's no way you can directly correlate a nearly year-old story about mineral deposits and them just happening to stumble across Bin Laden in some out-of-the-way mansion in Pakistan. I'm pretty sure the SWAT team was in Pakistan at the highly-secured mansion looking for bin Laden, not more mineral reserves inside the house and bam!, he just happened to be there.
> 
> That and this will get locked up pretty quick if we bring that into the conversation. So maybe we could just leave that until tomorrow or something?
> 
> -Cheers


I should have said....Why the US goverment will never leave Afghanistan


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## Keith Jenkins

Perhaps Jeff Dunham can now get Achmed the Dead Terrorist a friend? \\/


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## Don Turnipseed

I have a few reservations about the whole deal. Body was pretty conveniently disposed of. That is all I can say because everything after that becomes political.


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## maggie fraser

Christopher Jones said:


> Maybe its time for a good olds Osama joke.
> 
> "After numerous rounds of: "We don't even know if Osama is still alive," Osama himself decided to send George Bush a letter in his own handwriting to let him know he was still in the game.
> 
> Bush opened the letter and it appeared to contain a coded message: 370HSSV-0773H
> 
> Bush was baffled, so he e-mailed it to Condi Rice. Condi and her aides had no clue either, so they sent it to the F B I. No one could solve it so it went to the C I A, then to NSA.
> 
> With no clue as to its meaning, they eventually asked Britain's MI-6 for help. MI-6 cabled the White House:
> 
> "Tell the President he's holding the message upside down."


LMAO :lol:


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## catherine hardigan

Don Turnipseed said:


> There is a lot at stake for sure. Just seems a tad strange that such an infamous person wasn't laid out in a casket in front of a saloon somewhere for public viewing so to speak. I have to wonder why the quick burial at sea instead of a hole in the ground. Burial at sea seems pretty undoable as far as proof. Something about this just smells fishy....speaking of a burial at sea.....and it seems to have been well timed with the news of his death.


I agree, Don. That fishy odor could be the smell of bullshit government propaganda. Hopefully it isn't.

Ultimately, it has been almost a decade since 9/11, and finally Osama is dead. Yet, between the crime and the assassination we have invaded and destroyed two countries, lost over 4000 soldiers, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, tortured, spent trillions of dollars, and illegally spied on Americans.

It's a good (if possibly specious) thing that bin Laden finally met justice, but as I look around the smoking rubble it is difficult to feel much like cheering. It just seem too pyrrhic to be worth celebrating. And the longer we linger in the Middle East, the more likely retribution will be. Sigh.

Oh yeah, Government, I want my civil liberties back. Otherwise you all can tongue-kiss my shithole as my fellow socialists and I work to bring you down!


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## Guest

catherine hardigan said:


> I agree, Don. That fishy odor could be the smell of bullshit government propaganda. Hopefully it isn't.
> 
> Ultimately, it has been almost a decade since 9/11, and finally Osama is dead. Yet, between the crime and the assassination we have invaded and destroyed two countries, lost over 4000 soldiers, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, tortured, spent trillions of dollars, and illegally spied on Americans.
> 
> It's a good (if possibly specious) thing that bin Laden finally met justice, but as I look around the smoking rubble it is difficult to feel much like cheering. It just seem too pyrrhic to be worth celebrating. And the longer we linger in the Middle East, the more likely retribution will be. Sigh.
> 
> Oh yeah, Government, I want my civil liberties back. Otherwise you all can tongue-kiss my shithole as my fellow socialists and I work to bring you down!


Out of curiousity are you American?


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## maggie fraser

catherine hardigan said:


> I agree, Don. That fishy odor could be the smell of bullshit government propaganda. Hopefully it isn't.
> 
> Ultimately, it has been almost a decade since 9/11, and finally Osama is dead. Yet, between the crime and the assassination we have invaded and destroyed two countries, lost over 4000 soldiers, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, tortured, spent trillions of dollars, and illegally spied on Americans.
> 
> It's a good (if possibly specious) thing that bin Laden finally met justice, but as I look around the smoking rubble it is difficult to feel much like cheering. It just seem too pyrrhic to be worth celebrating. And the longer we linger in the Middle East, the more likely retribution will be. Sigh.
> 
> Oh yeah, Government, I want my civil liberties back. Otherwise you all can tongue-kiss my shithole as my fellow socialists and I work to bring you down!


You missed out the bit of all those bumped off in mistakes or by friendly fire.

What do you mean about civil liberties ? Can you expand a little on this, I get a little confused by this term when I read it on here from time to time?


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## Geoff Empey

Mark Twain said:


> "I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."


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## Christopher Jones

maggie fraser said:


> Can you expand a little on this, I get a little confused by this term when I read it on here from time to time?


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLrrBs8JBQo&feature=related


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## David Ruby

Christopher Jones said:


> Okay, you have Osama who is the number 1 in your biggest terrorist enemy. The guy who knows everything going on in AQ. He knows where everyone is, what they are up to, and what up comming plots they have on the books.* But rather than take him in alive, interogate him and possibly shut down the organisation and save lives (who knows maybe they have nukes) you shoot him dead, even when he surrenders.
> Yeah thats real bright. Sorry, its just one of the dumbest things I have yet heard of in this war on terror.*


With all due respect, I am suspect that you or anybody else outside a very select group of people that are probably NOT on The Working Dog Forum have the kind of intel as to how that actually went down. There have been conflicting reports already.

You are disagreeing with some set of circumstances that may have not even happened and even if it did still seems to have accomplished their end goal. Their intel also seemed to heavily indicate he was far less involved in al-Qaeda than when 911 happened. Questioning the judgment of those who were actually there in a military operation none of us were exactly given council to and the full account of we do not know really seems unjustified.

-Cheers


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## maggie fraser

Christopher Jones said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLrrBs8JBQo&feature=related


 
D'ya think they know about us Scots and the English Chris? [-X Many think Scotland is in Texas or even worse, in London !


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## Lee H Sternberg

It's been a good run! Say good night now cause this thread is going to get locked!


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## David Ruby

catherine hardigan said:


> Yeah, that's the reaction guys usually have when they find out.
> 
> Although, I would recommend that anybody sign up to nude model at their local college or university... they love getting male models and it's an easy way to make extra cash. And, since so many men seem self-conscious about being nude, I can guarantee that your special lady will love your new-found confidence without clothing.


It was a joke, but I'll pass.



> For some reason people assume it's something like this:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtkHg-GLv2c


Unless you're doing it at a strip bar, I'd have to imagine who thinks nude modeling at a university looks like something from the Porno For Pyros stageshow. It's hard enough to draw somebody standing still, much less writhing around and taking their clothes of rolling around on the ground.#-o



> But I can usually get sketches the students don't keep, and every guy I've dated loves getting them. So unless you take a class I model for or we meet at the beach you are shit outta luck.


I'll live without it. Besides, bringing home drawings of women I've seen naked to my wife and small daughter seems like a good way to discover the joys of sleeping in the garage.



> Oh yeah, Government, I want my civil liberties back.* Otherwise you all can tongue-kiss my shithole as my fellow socialists and I work to bring you down!*


I'll pass. But hey, if that's what you're into.:neutral:

-Cheers


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## Christopher Jones

David Ruby said:


> With all due respect, I am suspect that you or anybody else outside a very select group of people that are probably NOT on The Working Dog Forum have the kind of intel as to how that actually went down. There have been conflicting reports already.
> 
> You are disagreeing with some set of circumstances that may have not even happened and even if it did still seems to have accomplished their end goal. Their intel also seemed to heavily indicate he was far less involved in al-Qaeda than when 911 happened. Questioning the judgment of those who were actually there in a military operation none of us were exactly given council to and the full account of we do not know really seems unjustified.
> 
> -Cheers


 Yeah I guess we should be very careful believeing what our governments and media, who are spoonfed by our governments, tell us. We dont want to be fooled like we were with Jessica Lynch now do we?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IBZKCgobqo&feature=related


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## catherine hardigan

maggie fraser said:


> You missed out the bit of all those bumped off in mistakes or by friendly fire.
> 
> What do you mean about civil liberties ? Can you expand a little on this, I get a little confused by this term when I read it on here from time to time?


This is an overview of some of the fundamental changes to we Americans' legal rights by the USA Patriot Act following the attacks on Sept 11. Per the Associated Press:

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation. 

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests. 

FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation. 

RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation. 

RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial. 

RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.


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## Sandra King

> RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.


Not only Americans. They even abducted people from Germany and flew them out to Guantanamo Bay.


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## Chris McDonald

catherine hardigan said:


> This is an overview of some of the fundamental changes to we Americans' legal rights by the USA Patriot Act following the attacks on Sept 11. Per the Associated Press:
> 
> FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.
> 
> FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.
> 
> FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
> 
> RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
> 
> FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
> 
> RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
> 
> RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.


 
And has any of this really ever affected you? No it has not. You are just an attention whore and need a reason to say look at me. As much as you don’t want to believe it-it was all done to keep you safe. The fact that you are free to be stupid is thanks enough for those that actually contributed to the freedoms you have. You don’t need to thank them 
You know what pisses me off, having to take of my shoes at the airport. Now that’s wrong, I want the freedom of keeping my shoes on.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Chris McDonald said:


> And has any of this really ever affected you? No it has not. You are just an attention whore and need a reason to say look at me. As much as you don’t want to believe it-it was all done to keep you safe. The fact that you are free to be stupid is thanks enough for those that actually contributed to the freedoms you have. You don’t need to thank them
> You know what pisses me off, having to take of my shoes at the airport. Now that’s wrong, I want the freedom of keeping my shoes on.


\\/Well said!


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