# How do you pick your puppy owners?



## Julia Jones (Aug 10, 2010)

What steps do you go through to screen your puppy owners? I know most everyone has an application but anyone could write down some BS on a piece of paper from far away and present themselves as a committed owner when, in actuality, they just want a cool biting dog. How do you know that your pups are going to people who will work them in the field of sport they were bred for? 

Would you sell a puppy to someone charged with a felony? Someone who burglarized houses or didn't use their real name (example: creating a fake first and last name to go by when birth cert/drivers license is something completely different)? Would you sell to someone who had an "oops" litter with pet or working dogs? What if they weaved a good story to you on paper and through phone calls and you found out all sorts of truth later in who the person was? Do you have any ability to yank a dog from unfit owners?

How do you do it? There are so many wackos out there, how do you ensure your dogs are going to normal people who have a general interest in their dogs and WANT to train and compete and not just collect and collect and collect?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Julia Maeskye said:


> What steps do you go through to screen your puppy owners? I know most everyone has an application but anyone could write down some BS on a piece of paper from far away and present themselves as a committed owner when, in actuality, they just want a cool biting dog. How do you know that your pups are going to people who will work them in the field of sport they were bred for?


You really don't know, it all goes with a gut feeling and by word of mouth really. Most of my puppy buyers with my last litter were friends of friends or actual friends out of 8 pups 4 were good friends 2 were friends of friends and the other 2 have now become good friends. So I was lucky I guess in that way. I see pretty well all of them from time to time as well at training or at least through other people training with them. 



Julia Maeskye said:


> Would you sell a puppy to someone charged with a felony? Someone who burglarized houses or didn't use their real name (example: creating a fake first and last name to go by when birth cert/drivers license is something completely different)? Would you sell to someone who had an "oops" litter with pet or working dogs? What if they weaved a good story to you on paper and through phone calls and you found out all sorts of truth later in who the person was? Do you have any ability to yank a dog from unfit owners?


Once the dog is gone and paid for, contracts signed you are done. There is really nothing you can do about it unless they want to return the dog to you. The rest you mention would be up to local animal control and/or law enforcement if there was any abuse happening. Oops litters happen all the time and it doesn't have to be in a backyard, I know many experienced people that have had opps litters it doesn't make a person a criminal or any less of a potential puppy buyer if they were going to work a dog they bought from you. Let me ask you if a person crashed a car into the local drive thru 'Oops' would you sell them a car after? Accidents happen that's why they call them Oops. If it is someone whose track record shows that sure. 



Julia Maeskye said:


> How do you do it? There are so many wackos out there, how do you ensure your dogs are going to normal people who have a general interest in their dogs and WANT to train and compete and not just collect and collect and collect?


Only sell to people you know. Really if I ever do another litter it would be only for myself and for others that needed a working dog. My grandfather on the farm when they needed a replacement for Rover (he had 10+ successive dogs named Rover btw) they would breed to the neighbours dog, kept what they needed and culled the rest.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Julia Maeskye said:


> What steps do you go through to screen your puppy owners? I know most everyone has an application but anyone could write down some BS on a piece of paper from far away and present themselves as a committed owner when, in actuality, they just want a cool biting dog. How do you know that your pups are going to people who will work them in the field of sport they were bred for?
> 
> Would you sell a puppy to someone charged with a felony? Someone who burglarized houses or didn't use their real name (example: creating a fake first and last name to go by when birth cert/drivers license is something completely different)? Would you sell to someone who had an "oops" litter with pet or working dogs? What if they weaved a good story to you on paper and through phone calls and you found out all sorts of truth later in who the person was? Do you have any ability to yank a dog from unfit owners?
> 
> How do you do it? There are so many wackos out there, how do you ensure your dogs are going to normal people who have a general interest in their dogs and WANT to train and compete and not just collect and collect and collect?


#-o


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

](*,)
The Delaware ******* translation..........


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## Julia Jones (Aug 10, 2010)

I ask regarding hearing of people who are interested in dogs but I know are probably not up to the task of handling the sport they're interested in. It's a lot of time, a lot of money, and long drives to get to the clubs. I was lucky to receive my Mal from a friend thus going along with the "I sell my dogs to people I know or friends of friends" route that I thought was typical. I guess my question stems from knowing other people who breed dogs who find out later the owner was a shitter. Either dropped the dog into the back yard and didn't do anything with it, or turned out to be a psycho. They talked a good talk up front and presented themselves as a committed owner only to turn around and screw the dog in the long run by doing nothing with it. 

I asked this question not to disguise myself or to sell to shady people but because I know people who fit this bill and wondered what bigger breeders would do. I am very happy with my Mal, my breeders, and my training group.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Julia Maeskye said:


> I ask regarding hearing of people who are interested in dogs but I know are probably not up to the task of handling the sport they're interested in. It's a lot of time, a lot of money, and long drives to get to the clubs. I was lucky to receive my Mal from a friend thus going along with the "I sell my dogs to people I know or friends of friends" route that I thought was typical. I guess my question stems from knowing other people who breed dogs who find out later the owner was a shitter. Either dropped the dog into the back yard and didn't do anything with it, or turned out to be a psycho. They talked a good talk up front and presented themselves as a committed owner only to turn around and screw the dog in the long run by doing nothing with it.
> 
> I asked this question not to disguise myself or to sell to shady people but because I know people who fit this bill and wondered what bigger breeders would do. I am very happy with my Mal, my breeders, and my training group.


a person does not have to train and participate seriously in a sport to be a good dog owner. In fact many sport people are not very good dog owners. 

if a person got charged with a felony, that does not mean they cannot be a good dog owner, even if they are guilty of the crime.

If a person just wants a cool biting dog to train, that does not mean they are a bad dog owner.

If a person has an OOPS litter, that does not mean they cannot be a good dog owner.

Once you sell a dog to someone, you cannot just take it back, because you find out later you do not like the owner for various reasons, or that they may have been dishonest at times.

I have sold some dogs in the past, and some of the worst owners turned out to be people that I had a great feeling would be very good owners.

I have convinced a couple people to give me the dog back, so I could find a better home for the dog.


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## Julia Jones (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm just trying to gain an understanding of how people go through the process since I know my breeders, they knew who I was training with, and know what kind of a person I am. One of my dog's litter mates had the best grips and was sold to a novice who wanted to step into Ringsport. The dog is trained for detection and hasn't had any work as far as bite work goes. It seems a shame that the most promising dog went to someone who will not bring out and use that innate ability. She is in a great home. She has a great owner and a great life. 

I know good dog owners can come from non-working homes, felons, and people who just want a dog that bites but it does a disservice to the dog who was sold as a good working dog. I would be upset if I sold a dog to someone who told me they would work it and found out later they did nothing with it. I would want my pet-quality puppies to go to those low-key homes, not the dogs with solid, deep grips. 

Guess picking owners for puppies is a crap shoot just like getting puppies is a crap shoot. Thank you to those who took my question seriously. I'm still learning.


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

I meet them, talk to them, find out what their hopes are with this puppy and if it seems incompatible with my program goals I would politely decline the sale. If I have strong enough conviction about an animal not reproducing I'll alter them before they leave my home at my expense. I know it's taboo in sports breeders but for some dogs that is the condition. 

My contract has a lot of asking in it but very little demanding. I ask for first right of refusal at market value, I ask that they feed their puppy a good food, I ask that they keep their puppy in good health, I ask that they train their puppy, I ask that they never give their puppy up to a shelter without returning it to me. Before each puppy leaves they are microchipped, registered with their name and chip number, and I basically rub some prayer beads and wish the puppy the best life as the best dog she can be. 

I can't make someone be a good owner anymore than I can make someone be a good parent. Life just doesn't work that way.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Once a dog is sold, it is sold. Lots of people think I shouldn't own dogs because what I use them for the get beat to crap and sometimes killed. Just because some people have opinions doesn't make their opinion worth worring about. Everyone has an opinion. Being totally realistic, a dog isn't, or shouldn't be on the level of your first born. Yes, some people throw the dog in the yard and forget about them. Not a great life, but, keeping things in perspective, not all people have a great life through no fault of there own. They have kids and are losing their homes and jobs. No, I am not going to beat myself up over a dog not being worked or living outside. I do my best and try to not make the same mistake again....but I will probably.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Julia Maeskye said:


> Thanks for the replies so far. I'm just trying to gain an understanding of how people go through the process since I know my breeders, they knew who I was training with, and know what kind of a person I am. One of my dog's litter mates had the best grips and was sold to a novice who wanted to step into Ringsport. The dog is trained for detection and hasn't had any work as far as bite work goes. It seems a shame that the most promising dog went to someone who will not bring out and use that innate ability. She is in a great home. She has a great owner and a great life.
> 
> I know good dog owners can come from non-working homes, felons, and people who just want a dog that bites but it does a disservice to the dog who was sold as a good working dog. I would be upset if I sold a dog to someone who told me they would work it and found out later they did nothing with it. I would want my pet-quality puppies to go to those low-key homes, not the dogs with solid, deep grips.
> 
> Guess picking owners for puppies is a crap shoot just like getting puppies is a crap shoot. Thank you to those who took my question seriously. I'm still learning.


working a dog does not have to be titling it in a sport. 
the important part is that dog gets a good home, and if it is a working dog, that it has an outlet for all the drives and extra energy. And the the owner gets a good working quality dog, if that is what they want, regardless of goals they have with it.

It usually is a a benefit to the breeder to have people title their dogs, but it is not necessarily a benefit to the dog itself. 

I can see if a breeder was deceived, or gave some kind of price break becuase they thought the dog would get titled, and therefore give the breeder a bump. 

*"It seems a shame that the most promising dog went to someone who will not bring out and use that innate ability. She is in a great home. She has a great owner and a great life." *

So where is the shame, the dog is doing detection work, and has a great home and a great life. I can see a breeder being disappointed because the dog is not living a higher profile life, that might get him some gold stars if the dog went on to the nationals, but it sounds like the dog went to a great place to me, and I would be happy for that in itself.

I guess it goes back to what is a working dog? 

and what does a breeder care about most? good homes, or exposure.


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## Julia Jones (Aug 10, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> I guess it goes back to what is a working dog?
> 
> and what does a breeder care about most? good homes, or exposure.


Good points. Though I don't know that having a desire to see your pups do well necessarily equals desiring exposure for the kennel. Maybe it's just a desire to see how well the pairing did for future breeding plans.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Julia Maeskye said:


> Good points. Though I don't know that having a desire to see your pups do well necessarily equals desiring exposure for the kennel. Maybe it's just a desire to see how well the pairing did for future breeding plans.


that is a valid point as well..

If that was the case you would not sell your best pup to a novice, that "might" try a sport though, I don't think.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Melissa Thom said:


> I can't make someone be a good owner anymore than I can make someone be a good parent. Life just doesn't work that way.



Thank you Melissa! 



Julia Maeskye said:


> One of my dog's litter mates had the best grips and was sold to a novice who wanted to step into Ringsport. The dog is trained for detection and hasn't had any work as far as bite work goes. It seems a shame that the most promising dog went to someone who will not bring out and use that innate ability. She is in a great home. She has a great owner and a great life.


If you have to worry about anal stuff like that, I'd just not breed then. If you worry about every little thing it will drive you crazy. 

I bought my first Malinois as an active family pet for instance, Now we are playing Level 2 French Ringsport funny how that happened! 

The great Scottish poet Robbie Burns wrote this as an apology to a mouse who he upturned it's nest while plowing a field. 
_
But, Mousie, thou art no thy lane [you aren't alone] 
In proving foresight may be vain:
*The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft a-gley, [often go awry] *
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,_

Kind of fitting for the nature of this thread.


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## Julia Jones (Aug 10, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> If you have to worry about anal stuff like that, I'd just not breed then. If you worry about every little thing it will drive you crazy.


I don't ever plan to for a multitude of reasons (not just concerning where the dogs go). The example of a dog going to a detection home was not the object of this thread, just merely an example. I'm hoping that guy finds more time to come train with us once he is finished with other things in his life sucking up his time.  

The original point, I suppose, was would you want to sell a dog to someone who was reckless and stupid enough to get busted on a felony charge (as well as other questionable behavior). It appears some have no problem as long as the dog gets good care though if that person faces jail time - who will be caring for the dog, then? Others appear more cautious (going with friends and family). It's interesting reading the responses thus far and I appreciate the feedback thus far.

Thankfully I'll never have to worry about picking buyers for puppies as I never plan to breed. I just want to train and compete (If I can). Doesn't erase my curiosity, though!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Julia Maeskye said:


> I don't ever plan to for a multitude of reasons (not just concerning where the dogs go). The example of a dog going to a detection home was not the object of this thread, just merely an example. I'm hoping that guy finds more time to come train with us once he is finished with other things in his life sucking up his time.
> 
> The original point, I suppose, was would you want to sell a dog to someone who was reckless and stupid enough to get busted on a felony charge (as well as other questionable behavior). It appears some have no problem as long as the dog gets good care though if that person faces jail time - who will be caring for the dog, then? Others appear more cautious (going with friends and family). It's interesting reading the responses thus far and I appreciate the feedback thus far.
> 
> Thankfully I'll never have to worry about picking buyers for puppies as I never plan to breed. I just want to train and compete (If I can). Doesn't erase my curiosity, though!


lol....you inferred a few things, and are really stretching those things I think.

My point was the things you are mentioning are not as cut and dry as you might think...

I have a close friend that was convicted of murder. He is 53 yrs old, the crime happened when he was 18, 35 yrs ago. Has never gotten in any trouble again..He is not a career criminal and is not facing jail time for anything. He is also a great dog owner. 

I got a DUI, in 1991 when I was 20. I am now 40 yrs old...Does that make me a bad dog owner prospect?

I have met many people actively competing in sports that have had legal troubles in the past, and more than a couple that are convicted felons...there are people that do stupid things, and others that make mistakes, and some that are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I just dont see what that has to do with being a good dog owner. 

Obviously if a person is a repeat offender, a career criminal, or has pending charges and is facing prison time, *and you know these things*...those are not very good candidates for dog owners, no one said otherwise.

Friends and family are not always good choices to sell dogs to, my family are great people, no criminal history, but I would never give a working dog to any of them.

And I still stand by the statement that often dogsport people are not necessarily good owners.

You do what you can to screen, you turn away people that obviously aren't a good fit for you to feel comfortable with, and sometimes get fooled by people that you thought would be great owners, and aren't

If you can, if things arise after the sale, you try to help the dog. 

Once a dog is sold however, you have little recourse and cannot force someone to give it back to you. You just do not deal with them anymore if they were not what you thought they were.


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

I completely agree. And further, I think some breeders take their screening process incredibly too serious. Talked to a couple when trying to find a dog for my wife that completely put me off with their process and the questions they asked on their "application'. I understand about being responsible and not wanting to sell to the wrong people, but in the end there's only so much you can do. 

Luckily we got ourselves a discount pup :-D from a guy who was sort of in our club sort of not and had health issues and couldn't work her like she needs to be. 



Joby Becker said:


> I just dont see what that has to do with being a good dog owner....
> 
> And I still stand by the statement that often dogsport people are not necessarily good owners.
> 
> You do what you can to screen, you turn away people that obviously aren't a good fit for you to feel comfortable with, and sometimes get fooled by people that you thought would be great owners, and aren't


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> The great Scottish poet Robbie Burns wrote this as an apology to a mouse who he upturned it's nest while plowing a field.
> _
> But, Mousie, thou art no thy lane [you aren't alone]
> In proving foresight may be vain:
> ...


Why, Jeff, you are poetic.


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