# Decoying!



## J Ramanujam (Dec 30, 2007)

Hey guys! 

Got some questions for the decoys! 

I have been learning a little bit of decoy work here and there over the past year. I really dig it - I LOVE getting in the suit and taking bites. It's great. 

I would really like to get better at it... better as in: good, as in 'certifiable for PSA.'

I know I have a lot against me. For starters, in case you haven't noticed the name, I'm a girl. I can't say I see a lot of female decoys around. I'm 5' 8". It seems like most of the people I see decoying are at least 6' tall... that in itself will probably make things difficult.

But, I'm tough enough... I was in the US military for four years, and in tech school, I held the record for being the fastest female in my squadron. I've always been into soccer, biking, hiking, going to the gym, whatever. I need to train up a bit, but...

Well, that's why I'm here - what are some of the best conditioning/training methods that you guys use for decoying? I'm an avid little athlete, so there's no need to sugar any of it up.


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

These is nothing saying Chicks can't decoy. I am 5-11 and have no problems. It is all about learning to use the dogs momentum (spelling?) to your advantage.


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## Jeremy Norton (Apr 4, 2007)

Most of the women I've spoken with who are interested in decoying, have done some, or who do it semi-regularly say that the biggest factor (to them) is strength/mass. For PSA, and Sch, arm and shoulder strength to lift/move the dog; trunk/core strength to absorb the strike and move/fight with the dog; lower back strength to support the weight of a dog's gravitational downwards pull; leg strength to drive the dog.

Some fairly tough and determined gals I've seen work dogs all say that, ultimately, they don't have the core strength and mass to manage the dogs. There's technique, of course. The decoy/helper who did most of the catching for my presa was/is about five seven and 130# tops. He got abused by the dog, but he hung in there.

Lots of men are adequate simply by virtue of being large--doesn't mean they have any skill (whole separate issue).

For the ringsports, legs legs legs. Balance and coordination, flexibility, quick wrists.

Are you near SLC? I'd really recommend hooking up with Jason Farrish and his UPSK9 group. Jason is to fun dog training what opium is to an opium den... and I don't say that just because he's the Orient Express. Oh, wait, I _do_ say it because he's the self-titled O.E.

Jason is smart and talented and there are good dogs in his group to learn on. 

(Unless you're the woman in the recent video; in which case, you know I'm full of shite and Jason's a raving lunatic...)

I find myself combining exercise I do for work as a firefighter with exercises that would help me decoying. At my age, I'm just trying not to fall over and not get up.

Good luck with it. 
Jeremy


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

*Julianne give it up, chicks can't decoy...the handlers would go nuts!* :mrgreen: 

We have a girl in our training group who is learning to decoy. The dogs NEED to see threats from different ages, sexes, sizes, you name it. Sorry you live so far away as I would let you catch some of our crazy dogs, after that you can anwer your own question, is it worth it?

Got my vote...\\/


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

\\/ Good luck Julianne! Go for it!\\/


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Julianne, Jeremy has some good points. Strength is probably one of the main issues I see with woman decoys. I decoyed for 6 years (then really messed up my knee) and I'm only 5'6" but I'm also a lot stronger then your average woman. I still decoy, just mainly puppies and upperbody since my knee can't take the punishment a good adult can dish out.

I'd do weight lifting and other strength training. The other thing my trainer had us do when I was first learning to decoy is just work out in the suit. Put it on and go jog, do sprints, "run lines" (can't remember what it's called, but where you go back and forth between lines on the ground, touching the line each time you turn to go back the other way), etc. We did a lot of training in the suit without dogs actually attached to us, so we could learn to move naturally, and also just build up the flexibility and muscles needed to haul that suit around. 

There are plenty of male decoys who aren't any taller then you, so I wouldn't worry about the height. And each brings their own technique depending on what their strong and weak points are. There was a women in my area about a year ago who did a Sch certification. I don't know if she lives here, or just traveled from somewhere else to certify. But when she screamed at those dogs coming down the field, more then one stutter stepped. They had probably never even seen a woman decoy, and definitely not one screaming at them as they charged at them like she did. It threw them for a loop. 

Good luck.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

We have a lady decoy at our club.
It all about attitude and timing, not power. Go for it! :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Squadron.....guess thats air farce, so here is what you do, pack your stuff and move to San Antonio. We are needing a decoy, as Edoc destroyed another one, besides the fact that he is going to be getting out of the military. There are a lot of opportunities for you to get bitten.....er work dogs down here. Buko is a good one to start with. He is good with new decoys.


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Technique! I think if you have good technique, that can balance lack of strength. I'm only 5'10" and I don't have a problem catching the big dogs. I also had open heart surgery a little over a year ago. I have to be careful, but I have learned technique is more important than actual strength.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Julianne we have an awesome decoy coming over from France to host a seminar and decoy at our trial in June in Montreal. He has this little 8m video on Youtube that shows some of his clubs decoys fitness warm ups and some techniques with the dogs. The subtitles are in francais but you get the gist of what is going on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_54kJ3EeNA


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## J Ramanujam (Dec 30, 2007)

Whoa! So many responses! 

Thanks for all the input!! 

I do train with Jason and the crew on Sundays - I can go every Sunday now, which is way tight. On Tuesdays and Fridays I also train with Dwayne Baker. Those guys are a lot of fun and I really enjoy training with them.

haha... thanks for the offer Jeff... I'll have to start getting used to the name 'Sharkbait' ...

That video is awesome. I'm reviewing it for the third time right now... great resource, thanks! I can read French ok, so the subtitles aren't an issue.

This all reminds me of soccer conditioning... or playing Dance Dance Revolution -grin-


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## Kris Finison (Nov 26, 2007)

Julianne, 
As posted, there's nothing saying that females can't decoy. While with some strength and mass might be an issue I think that being in good shape coupled with knowing how to move a your body to move the dog are more important than sheer brute force.

Here's a woman decoying for a Dog Sport Protection Alert with a Central Asian Ovcharka. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNIUF-zHMSw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MyySxU0WiY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q1Ue-C1140


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## Axel Van der Borght (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi,
That you are fast can be an advantage. You can make yourself actrictive for the dog to bite you. You are his prey that wants to flee ! Their is a difference between a good decoy for trials and one for training. Some decoys can do it all, most of them don't. A good decoy on training is someone who makes the dog stronger ! I rather call a decoy like that a helper ! But it is hard to find someone like that. I think that is good challenge for you ! I am not very fast be I try my best to become a good helper for my friends and their dogs. We train the clickerway,even in bitework. So I have to think while training and not just get bitten. Anyway, keep on learning from the dogs, lol.
Axel
www.belgiank9friends.com


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Axel Van der Borght said:


> Hi,
> That you are fast can be an advantage. You can make yourself actrictive for the dog to bite you. You are his prey that wants to flee ! Their is a difference between a good decoy for trials and one for training. Some decoys can do it all, most of them don't. A good decoy on training is someone who makes the dog stronger ! I rather call a decoy like that a helper ! But it is hard to find someone like that. I think that is good challenge for you ! I am not very fast be I try my best to become a good helper for my friends and their dogs. We train the clickerway,even in bitework. So I have to think while training and not just get bitten. Anyway, keep on learning from the dogs, lol.
> Axel
> www.belgiank9friends.com


Axel I like the way you are thinking! "A good decoy on training is someone who makes the dog stronger." Lots of us feel that is the answer in the nut shell. Keep the personal egos at home, forget about trying to look better than the handler, and remember to work safely! You say you're fast...any K-9 tatoos/bite marks? ;-)


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

There are many qualities needed to be a decoy. In my mind, being physically strong is important. But, is of little value in problem solving dog and handler issues. My partner is about your size or smaller and one of the best decoys in North America, both in mind and body. He has won super selections in Ring Sport, etc... where a decoy earns his keep is how quickly he learns the dog team, human included that are in front of him. More importantly, that his own personal goals in training never overcome the personal goals of the handlers. There are a great many decoys in the world capable and beautifully trained to catch dogs at the highest level at the biggest events, yet cant train a dog to get to that level. 

In my opinion: the very best decoys never survive their own ego's. They work with a great club or trainer, get taught some things, then often times they feel that they have achieved a celebrity status and start asking for a lot of money, take offers from rival trainers, or burn every bridge behind them. 

Dont allow your body to be tricked by your mind. Leave it open to all kinds training influences. Offer to get beat up, in exchange you get to ask questions and learn how things were taught. Be humble and compassionate to handlers with years of experience who beat the hell out of you for screwing up their dog 

Depending on how much you want to learn and where you are, we can offer some help if you like?

Sincerely,
Bryan Colletti
WWW.K9CS.ORG












Julianne Ramanujam said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Got some questions for the decoys!
> 
> ...


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## Greg Williams (Aug 5, 2007)

Hello Jullianne,
Let me start b saying you've recieved a ton of good advice! I'd love to see a woman PSA certified decoy! And your training with a couple of good guys (Jason and Dwayne). If your millitary, you should have all the strength you need. Proper technique will keep you from having to use all that strength. Just listen to what Dwayne and Jason have to say, and watch them closely, then find your rhythm. once you find it you'll be fine.
Don't tell those guys I said all these nice things! We know it'll go to the orient express' head! lol Just teasin!
Tell Them I said hello! Actually tell Jason "Big Red" says hey!
Good luck and I look forward to hearing you certified and having you catch my dogs in a PSA trial.

Greg Williams
PSA decoy & new this year, PSA Judge
But always a competitor first!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Another problem with women decoying is with the equipment. Most suits are made for men. Now when you add to the issue that some women are top heavy or bottom bound, the standard male suit doesn't work. If the woman has top and bottom issues and is tall........forget it! The suit must be custom made. 

I like to see everyone try their hand at decoying. It is impoprtant for others to experience what the club decoy is going through. Almost anyone can catch a dog, unless they stand stone still and jamb the dog on the sleeve. Not every athlete is a good decoy, to often macho attitudes over rule good acting and following the NEEDS of the K-9 handler. *The decoy works for the handler. *When the handler is new and doesn't know a thing, this is when experienced folks should help out.

When a dog training club can use the wise experiences of the group, then many positive things can happen. Let women decoy, let kids decoy on easy dogs and with all the safety checks put in place. This is alot like hunting, the old wise ones are kicking the bucket and the young fit ones would rather play inside on the computer. 
Exercise Grasshopper!:mrgreen: =D>


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

All the women in our club ( 5 of us) all have been either in the suit, or have used the sleeve with scratch pants. Some of us like decoying more than others, some of us get knocked down more than others, \\/\\/ the flees and the long down field attacks do it....everytime  ..... but you are right, part of it-has to do with the suit- the ones we are using are just way to big....but the more you do it, the more natural it feels, and you learn to go with the dog.....initially we felt all club members needed to take a bite at least one time, to understand and appreciate the work of our decoys- as far as us girls, we didn't realize we were going to have so much fun--showing off the bruises we got from one anothers dogs.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I don't like a scratch apron. It flops around, gives the dog something else to "think" about, and makes you look like a cook and not a decoy!:-# [-(


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