# First Table Session



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I've seen lots of chatter about table work on the board but no vids. Here's a vid of my Mal's first table session. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9B3JKVA8sU


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

rottweiler - not as confident up there.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_MxBwVYn2I


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

I have heard about table training but dont really know anything about it. what is the purpose, benefits etc?


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

I don't think I have ever seen a table where there wasn't a fixed chain so the dogs don't loose their front feet off the front of the table. That looked a little funky to me. But what the heck to do I kow?

I don't think the Rott looked bad.

Julie


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Chris, why do you think the Rottweiler was more uncertain than the Mali?

The Rottweiler's grips were better than the Mali but of course only the helper could tell!!

Why did either of them "need" the table?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Chris, why do you think the Rottweiler was more uncertain than the Mali?



the rottie was lying down. He wasn't bad.... the Rott is the hardest biting dog in the club.

We were working on grips. Pull em off the table and they better hang on or fall. We also wanted them to pull. The unstable table makes them a little more edgy and in the case of the Mal it seemed to make him work more "free" It's hard to explain, his B&H is intense but not very active. After the session on the table he showed us his best B&H


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> the rottie was lying down. He wasn't bad.... the Rott is the hardest biting dog in the club.
> 
> We were working on grips. Pull em off the table and they better hang on or fall. We also wanted them to pull. The unstable table makes them a little more edgy and in the case of the Mal it seemed to make him work more "free" It's hard to explain, his B&H is intense but not very active. After the session on the table he showed us his best B&H


thanks for sharing the video chris...


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Chris we do table training and I liked both dogs but saw the rottie as the best. If this is their first time on the table they WILL get better. I didn't see a lot of defense and that's good. They looked like they were having a good fun time so next time it will be better and later you can add more defense. I'll post some from a different table and how it's used and what we are trying to get from the dog. Most of what we try to get from the dog is where to bite and the outs. H&B is done here too, if this is wanted. Nice job Chris. Now what do you think of table training?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> I've seen lots of chatter about table work on the board but no vids. Here's a vid of my Mal's first table session.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9B3JKVA8sU


Chris 

There is a BIG difference between working a dog on any old table and real "table training". There's nothing wrong with either of your dogs. You're just not doing "table training"
Here's a link to a dozen videos of what "table training" should look like
http://www.sl-prokeys.com/wffcw/sl_wrecktable.htm


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I have never put my dogs on a table - maybe they would be better??? Maybe not. They all, Briard ( I don't think tables were "en vogue" then) but with the Working Line GSDs, I cannot honestly see what I can achieve more than i have.

I'm open to all methods, always have been but have yet to find a plausible answer to the fact that when my dogss run to the decoy, challenge and afterwards bite, what more can I do with the table. They both bite with full grips and hard.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Any chance you're selling your Rottweiler short? I just wonder because of your previous comments of the Mali being 10X the dog when your Rottie looks (just from what little footage I've seen) like a pretty nice dog. Not to be the off-breed apologist or anything, but...

All that said, I don't know jack about table training. Thanks for sharing the video, but I'm not even going to pretend to know what's good or bad about it or what your dogs showed relative to what is the ideal for that training. Thanks for posting though.

One question though; I thought it was generally trained to get the dog to push into the bite more than pull back. Am I off on that? Just wondering how that fits into things or the thought behind it.

-Cheers


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I have never put my dogs on a table - maybe they would be better??? Maybe not. They all, Briard ( I don't think tables were "en vogue" then) but with the Working Line GSDs, I cannot honestly see what I can achieve more than i have.
> 
> I'm open to all methods, always have been but have yet to find a plausible answer to the fact that when my dogss run to the decoy, challenge and afterwards bite, what more can I do with the table. They both bite with full grips and hard.



my dogs didn't NEED to be worked like that, but I did see an immediate improvement in the Mali. Whether or not he will be as good tomorrow night is another story. The Mali is a pretty strong dog as it is. When we talked about it last night, it was said that all dogs can benefit from that form of table work. I wish I had video from later in the session because you can really see the mali show improvement once he became more comfortable. The Rottie too.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Chris

We were training last evening and one dog, a Mali doesn't jump to the sleeve, rather, like my Briard, bites "under" and the decoy was on the ground with the Mali trampling all over him.

We put up a "jump" covered with sheet and tried to get the helper to stand near to the other side of the jump so that the Mali would jump and grip correctly.

I have my "thoughts". I never got the Briard to do this as I think it hangs together with the prey drive which was probalbly lacking.

Anybody's thoughts would be welcome. Malinois is about 2 years' old.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

David Ruby said:


> Any chance you're selling your Rottweiler short? I just wonder because of your previous comments of the Mali being 10X the dog when your Rottie looks (just from what little footage I've seen) like a pretty nice dog. Not to be the off-breed apologist or anything, but...
> 
> All that said, I don't know jack about table training. Thanks for sharing the video, but I'm not even going to pretend to know what's good or bad about it or what your dogs showed relative to what is the ideal for that training. Thanks for posting though.
> 
> ...



We wanted to work on grips and pulling. We may do something different. The trainers I work with like pulling dogs. It doesn't matter to me, it's just a sport.

Yes the rottie is very nice. He's been called exceptional by a few people, I just have more fun with the Mali.

BTW- I don't know shit about table training other than what I have read and have been told. I was just following the advice of the guys in the club that know better. All of the dogs except one had a table session last night. I know the guys I work with will not screw up my dogs. Frankly, it's hard to find better helpers in Phoenix.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Chris
> 
> There is a BIG difference between working a dog on any old table and real "table training". There's nothing wrong with either of your dogs. You're just not doing "table training"
> Here's a link to a dozen videos of what "table training" should look like
> http://www.sl-prokeys.com/wffcw/sl_wrecktable.htm



I couldn't open any of the vids. How did you get them to play?


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> We wanted to work on grips and pulling. We may do something different. The trainers I work with like pulling dogs. It doesn't matter to me, it's just a sport.
> 
> Yes the rottie is very nice. He's been called exceptional by a few people, I just have more fun with the Mali.
> 
> BTW- I don't know shit about table training. I was just following the advice of the guys in the club that know better. All of the dogs except one had a table session last night.


Hey, no problem. It's all new to me, so don't take it as being critical, and different people obviously like different things.

Both dogs look nice, so if the Mali's more fun to you, that's cool. Best of luck with them both!

-Cheers


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

David Ruby said:


> Hey, no problem. It's all new to me, so don't take it as being critical, and different people obviously like different things.
> 
> Both dogs look nice, so if the Mali's more fun to you, that's cool. Best of luck with them both!
> 
> -Cheers



does that mean you want to buy the rottie?:mrgreen:


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Is he for sale?


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> does that mean you want to buy the rottie?:mrgreen:


Hey, I'd love to help you out but I don't want to piss my wife off too badly.

Nah, I'm going to see what I can learn from my Bulldog to get my handler skills up to snuff and then probably get a Malinois for Mondio once my daughter is a bit older to see if I can bring her up with this stuff. Predictable choice I suppose, but I need every advantage I can get. 

That said, I do like your Rottie, FWIW.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Is he for sale?


If so I'd think he would be pretty easy to get rid of.

-Cheers


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

anybody gonna explain this stuff to me>


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

sam wilks said:


> anybody gonna explain this stuff to me>


http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f50/table-training-what-suposed-do-13069/

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f53/table-training-dog-sports-14316/

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f30/table-training-13942/

Or just do a search for "table training." Look for locked threads; they seem to be a recurring theme with table training conversations.

-Cheers


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Is he for sale?


Honestly, yes but only to the right home and I'm in no rush to move him along. I simply do not have the time to train effectively two dogs to a high level and believe that I am selling both dogs short.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> Honestly, yes but only to the right home and I'm in no rush to move him along. I simply do not have the time to train effectively two dogs to a high level and believe that I am selling both dogs short.



IF anybody is seriously considering a Rottie this is a dog that has been started by us. She's going to be a very nice female and she's bred right. A true working Rottie. NO she hasn't been on the table :mrgreen:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/rottweiler/classifieds/10861.html


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## jeremy anderson (Mar 19, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> IF anybody is seriously considering a Rottie this is a dog that has been started by us. She's going to be a very nice female and she's bred right. A true working Rottie. NO she hasn't been on the table :mrgreen:
> 
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/rottweiler/classifieds/10861.html


:-o 
I have seen both dogs in person. from a novice view they are both impressive to me. You already know how I feel about Kaiser. I have been holding ilsa for last month & if I could afford her she would be mine. Here's another link to the parents http://www.alpharotts.com/litters.htm


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Looked good be careful/mindful with the Mali he looks like hes wound plenty tight this looked to be a feeler session? I think you can do some cool shit with the Rottie and the table.:mrgreen:


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