# Seriously? this is great PPD trainer...



## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

what do you think protection sport people. This guy says he the best trainer, "Master Trainer" in Minnesota. hmmmm if you want to yawn at the so-so obedience go to about 2:20 or thereabouts and sign up for his class!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3XZtrYgMe4


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> what do you think protection sport people. This guy says he the best trainer, "Master Trainer" in Minnesota. hmmmm if you want to yawn at the so-so obedience go to about 2:20 or thereabouts and sign up for his class!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3XZtrYgMe4


I am sure he IS a master certified trainer, and probably DID get rated as the best dog trainer in MINNEAPOLIS by someone. 

Have you trained with him? or is there some kind of personal issue with him? just curious.

Curious as to why you might ask sport trainers what they think of his training, as he is not doing sport.

I have seen a lot worse dogs, and training. Athough the dog for sure did NOT return his focus to the handler as labeled in the first segment.

What did you see that you thought was so ridiculous in the short video?


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

I chuckled about the character coming out of the wood pile all crazy. I know nothing about personal protection. Didn't realize I was just asking sport trainers. There seems to be a lot of "Master Trainers" out there......


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

> what do you think protection sport people.


I dont think I would judge the man himself from the short video, or the dogs really.

Was the guy jumping out of the woodpile the guy who owns the training business?


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

I believe so. opps my bad on the typo-wasnt my intention> I only know sports.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> I believe so. opps my bad on the typo-wasnt my intention> I only know sports.


I dont know the guy. was just curious why you chose to focus on him specifically, when there are examples of dogs and training that are far more terrible than that, youtube is full of them.

The obedience looked ok to me personally. Not everyone wants or needs perfected attention heeling, not even all sport people.

I suppose it is his proximity to you, and his claim of being rated the top trainer in Minneapolis that drew your attention, call the guy up, visit with him, find out what he is about, judge for yourself, that is my advice.

If that OB is laughable, I am sure glad I dont post OB videos


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

hard to make judgements from such a short clip... 

i've seen FAR worse obedience... and a protection dog does not require the precision needed on a sport field... in that regard things looked fine to me... i would have liked to have seen the dog operating with some distractions around - heeling among people perhaps, or stuff going on during a stay... 

as far as the protection stuff goes... the dog coming up the container looked like she was already chasing someone, was alert and pulling towards where the 'bad guy' jumped out... response on that one looked ok to me... 

coming up to the wood pile where the dog was just moseying along and then was startled, there was a lot of defensiveness and some displacement and uncertainty.... probably something that could be overcome with training but again hard to judge on just that short vid... 

if they're selling her as a dog that'll bark and make a lot of noise but not necessarily bite, she's great... 
if they're selling her as a dog that'll nail someone, they should have demonstrated some bitework with hidden equipment in their video...


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Do not know this guy,have had a guy here with a puppy out of his breed!!full black gsd female.after a few weeks in training she have get white hair on her back legs and her arm pits. told the guy to ask the breeder why she get white hair,he have come up with something sounding stupid."i try to breed full black but sometimes later they get white hair."

so i told the owner to make a dna test. result Half gsd,other half mix out of bull mastiff and white shepherd. normaly you say you get what you pay for, but 1500$ is a lot for a mix. after some arguments he have take her back.

checked his website and was only wondering about his breeding line, never have hear this name. and than "University of Minnesota K-9 Training Center"
.there is no trainings center!!!! that picture was taken from a dean calderon seminar from one of the Minnesota clubs in the live stock arena in the U.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

stefan..

I know people that have sent in DNA tests on dogs for fun, that have gotten back results that were not even close to being accurate...it is not really reliable, and the companies vary as well..

great for tracking parentage, not so great for determining breed influences..

That being said, I would think a purebred GSD should come back as a purebred GSD, as that seems to be a really basic type test, and the breed should be pretty clean genetically on average. 

(If a DNA testing company could not even get a purbred GSD right, then that is pretty sad)


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I don't think it was a particularly well edited video, or anything spectacular either in terms of reaction to stress/threat, but the dog is clearly obedient in that setting for obedience.

TBH were either scenarios a threat situation?
I couldn't hear any alert commands given but that could easily have been masked by the awful music.
Bit too 'hair trigger' for my personal preference, you could go to the local shelter and find a dog that would react like that.
Both scenarios just looked like what I would consider a washout test on a green dog.
I agree with Jay about the container clip, possibly the second 'take' for that scenario which in itself is not a good sign that all is well.
The dog alerts merely for the sudden presence and you could argue that the agitator 'reacted' to the aggression if this was CCTV and we were in court.
The dogs 'bounce back' on the log pile test was fairly good result in terms of stress coping, seeing as the dog was a bit unsure during the 'assault' lol, would have been happier to see the dog to have then returned to heel or a heel alert position looking for reward or 'whats my next job' rather than start sniffing daisies. Probably a 'first take' for that clip as you see the dog genuinely alert to the 'neredowell (lol) just before he leaves his hiding position, in a 'Hello whats this chappy up to?' kind of way.
Would need to see a vid of the dog in a passive social setting and a social setting with threat to even get an idea of what the dog is like and what training it has taken on successfully.
From what I am seeing from just these clips, I would suggest the dog is a liability BUT I am not saying the dog IS.
Then again some people want a PPD that reactive, I don't. I want a dog that doesn't kick off at for example a kid that runs round a container late for class.
The clips were short, under very little distraction or no social setting, one cannot judge without testing the dog yourself, personally, I wouldn't waste my tyres driving there unless I saw further vids constructed as above described with social setting and real identifiable threat. 

This is a bit more like what you want to see from a PPD in my opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SjOgzUdExpU

I know the 'helper' is wearing a bite suit but I also know that they move on to hidden equipment in the dogs training from watching other vids.

What this has to do with sport training, or how one could judge it from a sport perspective, I have no idea. 
Just my two pence on the matter.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

The trouble with PPD's and trainers is that there are NO standards.
You can claim to be the best in the City, County or State and there is no one that can say otherwise since it's just an opinion.
As far as not needing attention or sharp obedience in the real world. This dog is being advertised as 

"Kora is a two year old female German Shepherd Dog who has an excellent Schutzhund foundation, strong drive and solid nerves."

I didn't see any of that in the video clip.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Stefan Schaub said:


> Do not know this guy,have had a guy here with a puppy out of his breed!!full black gsd female.after a few weeks in training she have get white hair on her back legs and her arm pits. told the guy to ask the breeder why she get white hair,he have come up with something sounding stupid."i try to breed full black but sometimes later they get white hair."
> 
> so i told the owner to make a dna test. result Half gsd,other half mix out of bull mastiff and white shepherd. normaly you say you get what you pay for, but 1500$ is a lot for a mix. after some arguments he have take her back.
> 
> ...


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Brian McQuain said:


> Stefan Schaub said:
> 
> 
> > Do not know this guy,have had a guy here with a puppy out of his breed!!full black gsd female.after a few weeks in training she have get white hair on her back legs and her arm pits. told the guy to ask the breeder why she get white hair,he have come up with something sounding stupid."i try to breed full black but sometimes later they get white hair."
> ...


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## Stefan Schaub (Sep 12, 2010)

Brian McQuain said:


> Stefan Schaub said:
> 
> 
> > Do not know this guy,have had a guy here with a puppy out of his breed!!full black gsd female.after a few weeks in training she have get white hair on her back legs and her arm pits. told the guy to ask the breeder why she get white hair,he have come up with something sounding stupid."i try to breed full black but sometimes later they get white hair."
> ...


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## Jim Cook (Mar 17, 2010)

I own Kato's sire Lasso and we have a littermate to your dog in our club, Brian. He is a very dark bi color with no white on him.

Hey Stefan, has Ultra had pups yet?


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Jim Cook said:


> I own Kato's sire Lasso and we have a littermate to your dog in our club, Brian. He is a very dark bi color with no white on him.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## lannie dulin (Sep 4, 2012)

Yeah dna test are trash. I have a friend that had his presa tested just to see what comes up. It's a reconstructed breed so he didn't expect anything specific. He got some silly stuff like 25%JRT! In a 130lbs presa?! I would kill for a 130lbs JRT, that would be the hardest dam dog you ever seen out on the field, lol.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

lannie dulin said:


> Yeah dna test are trash. I have a friend that had his presa tested just to see what comes up. It's a reconstructed breed so he didn't expect anything specific. He got some silly stuff like 25%JRT! In a 130lbs presa?! I would kill for a 130lbs JRT, that would be the hardest dam dog you ever seen out on the field, lol.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

a 130 LB JRT?! Now THAT would be a serious reason for BSL. :lol: :wink:


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