# Whats the story on this picture by Kerry Engels?



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Club initiation? :mrgreen:


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

great picture, thanks for sharing it


----------



## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

I was there, she was a friend of another member and just wanted to. She even got up and caught a dog like 5 more times. In fact, took more bites than her boyfriend did.


----------



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Brett Bowen said:


> I was there, she was a friend of another member and just wanted to. She even got up and caught a dog like 5 more times. In fact, took more bites than her boyfriend did.


 
In shorts and sandals!! =D> Wow, props to her.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

that kind of stuff scares me really..

I know I know, the dog is 100% clean, only targets upper body, strictly prey never would bite a person for real etc,etc... (999 times out of 1000 anyhow)....

the last time we let a guy take some bites like that, we used the safest dog there, a really nice GSD, all prey. good nerves ect... super safe to work..tons of training, sch III, friendly, prey only, years of suit work and sleeve work, never tried to bite anyone...

one guy wanted to try it out, suited him up, did some online stuff 4-5 bites...etc...

he wanted to try a send, so they did a medium length send 50 ft or so I guess, dog hit him, he tried to stay standing, got twisted up, fell on top of the dog and cranked the dogs neck, and landed on top of him, probably hurt the dog, dog let go, and then chewed on the guys head for a few seconds....he got staples....and bought a bite helmet.


----------



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Yeah, but shorty shorts and sandal? LoL... Should even an experienced decoy work a dog in shorts and gladiator sandals?

Non the less, its a cool picture.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Meng Xiong said:


> Yeah, but shorty shorts and sandal? LoL... Should even an experienced decoy work a dog in shorts and gladiator sandals?
> 
> Non the less, its a cool picture.


well they are gladiator sandals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
\\/[-X

And I agree, none the less, cool photo!


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Meng Xiong said:


> Yeah, but shorty shorts and sandal? LoL... Should even an experienced decoy work a dog in shorts and gladiator sandals?
> 
> Non the less, its a cool picture.


we all do unsafe things. 
There is a risk all the time when working with biting dogs, it is inherently an unsafe activity. 

THAT IS A COOL PICTURE... 

I think many times, people do not realize all the risks involved, because they see 100's of bite sessions with various dogs in training for years, and everything works out fine....until it doesn't that ONE time. At least people that do this often, take bites, realize that...some newer people might not realize it all the time.

To let a smaller inexperienced girl take longer bites in shorts and sandals, at a distance far enough that the dog blasts her off of her feet, cause "she wanted to", is not something I would do, but hey, nothing happened, so no big deal....

I had a friend that was learning the mechanics and stuff, took plenty of bites. We used a dog that was 100% safe  , sleeve happy, no aggression.

He wanted to try some longer sends, so I figured I would do a few to warm the dog up and talk to him through the procedures and safety measures..dog was super fast and high flyer, 10-12 feet was his average launch distance...

It was super hot outside, so I did not put on the scratch pants...](*,)

Handler sent the dog, first longer send, after a few on-line bites and short sends..dog did not launch like he always did before, 100's of times, and at about 4 feet away he started turning his head, I tried to sidestep and block him with the sleeve, but still ended up with a giant bleeding hole in my leg ... dog flew by, and of course came back and bit the sleeve happily...

dog probably saw the other dogs doing leg bites, and wanted to just "try it out" once...best I can figure...

My friend did take a bunch of bites from him, with the pants on . That dog did sleeve bitework consistently from a pup til he was 9 yrs old, never did that before, never did it again...he was a super "safe" dog, except the "one" time...

We always do online bites for a while, over multiple days, and explain to anyone that wants to "try it out", that there is the very real risk, that they can get bitten, in the head, in the face, in the hand, in the foot etc...even though they have never seen it happen before, and even though the dogs are what we call "safe" ,it is still a real possibility that they can be injured.

that being said, I still do not put on the pants every time, depending on the dogs, and I even put my GF's 17 yr old in a suit, to "try it out" last year. so I am not really preaching or anything, just letting people that read this thread that might not realize it, know, that you can get injured, even with "safe" dogs...here is the kid's first longer send...


----------



## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

Meng Xiong said:


> In shorts and sandals!! =D> Wow, props to her.


Yeah I would not want to fall asleep if she was ever mad at me. I would probably wake up missing something important to me. :razz: 

Joby, it wasn't a very far send, maaaaybe 7-10 yards probably less. I don't think she was prepared for the force.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Brett Bowen said:


> Yeah I would not want to fall asleep if she was ever mad at me. I would probably wake up missing something important to me. :razz:
> 
> Joby, it wasn't a very far send, maaaaybe 7-10 yards probably less. *I don't think she was prepared for the force.*


I concur... 

like I said not really preaching, if I was I would be a hypocrite..better in my mind to put a little "scare" into people, than to not say anything at all, or tell them not to worry, it is totally safe.


----------



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Joby,

By no means was I trying to preach anything about safety either, just poking fun.

I don't care what anyone choses to do, but I've learned my lesson. One time I was working a rotti with shorts and an appron on in hold and bark, when I jumped up and presented the sleeve the dog some how went under the apron and bit the inside-upper portion of my shorts - close enough to my groin area to not want to use the apron ever again. Still, no cool picture picture though.


----------



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Meng Xiong said:


> Still, no cool picture picture though.


Don't you feel so ripped off? No internet fame for you!


----------



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

I know huh? Dammit!


----------



## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

I have a t-shirt with a jagged hole right around the left nipple area from a dog that had always bit legs, and when I decided training with just pants on with him would be fine. That lasted one time. Luckily I channeled my inner mongoose and the nipple is fine, for those who are concerned.


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

cool picture .. great action shot, etc etc 

but mostly stupid and irresponsible for EVERY experienced dog handler on scene to allow her to do it ](*,)
..... as Joby explained ... 

only thing more irresponsible might be sport divers hand feeding sharks ....


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> cool picture .. great action shot, etc etc
> 
> but mostly stupid and irresponsible for EVERY experienced dog handler on scene to allow her to do it ](*,)
> ..... as Joby explained ...
> ...


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Meng, I bet you learned some good evasive techniques...on the quick....

nothing like trying to crawl away from a dog that is trying to chew the back of your neck/head out...or get away from a dog trying to chew out your stomach.. 

This shit happened with a full suit on, some of it with gauntlets some without. various suits various weights over the years. from can-am to demanet training. 
I will spare the belly and leg shots LOL...














































here is a good reminder of the dangers...dog was on Mikes neck for at least a minute I would guess (all 4 canines in the neck)....before someone pried him off with a scoop handle..and he has been working dogs for a looooong time..


----------



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Is this just an excuse to show off the ole guns? haaah...

Looks pretty narly, man. What kind of injuries did Mike sustain? and why wasn't the dog called off?


----------



## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Another good one!!! :-o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ94CnHrt18


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Unsafe? Sure.......but I'm old. I enjoy seeing a nice leg. :grin:OO


----------



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Unsafe? Sure.......but I'm old. I enjoy seeing a nice leg. :grin:OO


Yeah, but maybe there's a reason the face is a covered up with hair!!!:-k:-D


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Meng Xiong said:


> Is this just an excuse to show off the ole guns? haaah...
> 
> Looks pretty narly, man. What kind of injuries did Mike sustain? and why wasn't the dog called off?


well the dog* was* called off. apparently the dog's out was not that good in that situation...

there were tons of people there, due to the nature of what it appeared was going on, the seriousness of it, the handler and the people were hesitant to get involved for fear of something worse happening. Mike did a good job of keeping the pressure off by prying at the dogs mouth, but his arm was wrapped over the dog so no one could get to the collar...

I admit, I did not run up there, I hate blood and stuff (unless it is my own, for some reason that is fine with me)...but I did start yelling for someone to find a breakstick... and Waine S. was next to me, we both started looking around, and spotted a poop scoop, he grabbed it and ran over, and with a little help, popped the dog off....

Mike was basically ok, all things considered, 4 punctures on his neck, went to the hospital with his GF, got at least 3, maybe all of them stitched up and made it back to the event before it was over..

Let his experience, be a teachable moment to everyone....

IF YOU GO DOWN ON THE GROUND AND THE DOG COMES OFF (for any reason), THROW UP AN ARM OR WHATEVER, PUT SOMETHING IN ITS MOUTH, do NOT let the dog decide where he is gonna re-bite, and don't assume he will not re-bite...


----------



## kenneth roth (Jul 29, 2010)

joby this what you mean by rebiting? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYBYC1DSCAs :-o


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Yeah, but maybe there's a reason the face is a covered up with hair!!!:-k:-D


Not a problem Lee. That's what paper bags and American flags are for ;-)


----------



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

kenneth roth said:


> joby this what you mean by rebiting? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYBYC1DSCAs :-o



Man check!


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

LOL...

If you fall on the ground with that dog, just cover your nuts and hug him, you should be fine most likely...


----------



## Ken Seminatore (Apr 20, 2011)

Never a good idea to have an unexperienced young lady in shorts to take bites from a send out , just kind of stupid.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Ken,

When you have a bunch of guys and add a young lady in shorts
(especially if she's good looking) that's when stupid stuff happens most of the time


----------



## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

thomas barriano said:


> ken,
> 
> when you have a bunch of guys and add a young lady in shorts
> (especially if she's good looking) that's when stupid stuff happens most of the time


 
aaaaamen!


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

the real question is how far did she travel?


----------



## kenneth roth (Jul 29, 2010)

6ft :-o bet her butt is flaten like a pancake :razz:


----------

