# Introducing "Kids" to Working Dogs



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

More of a general question (or perhaps two). For those of you with kids, how did you get your kids involved in working dogs? How did you get them interested in helping with training & dog maintenance, as well as wanting to drive hours & hours to train or watch a dog trial out in some middle-of-nowhere field?

Also, do you find there is a certain age where you are comfortable letting them interact with your high-drive working dog(s), or do you wait until they are old enough to no longer be rightfully considered "kids"? Specifically the supervised-around-appropriately-social-and-tolerant-dogs and the non-tart variety of kids.

-Cheers


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ill tell you what didn’t work and that was having a little 45 pound Mali give my 8 year old a play full nip in the ass. Been 6 months and she still hates that dog. And trust me she has not learned to separate her frustration with the dog from how she talks to it when its around


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

David Ruby said:


> More of a general question (or perhaps two). For those of you with kids, how did you get your kids involved in working dogs? How did you get them interested in helping with training & dog maintenance, as well as wanting to drive hours & hours to train or watch a dog trial out in some middle-of-nowhere field?
> 
> Also, do you find there is a certain age where you are comfortable letting them interact with your high-drive working dog(s), or do you wait until they are old enough to no longer be rightfully considered "kids"? Specifically the supervised-around-appropriately-social-and-tolerant-dogs and the non-tart variety of kids.
> 
> -Cheers


Easy!! Take video games, cell phones, TV, CD's, DVD's, movies, idiot friends and any other distraction away from them. Lock them in a bedroom for a week with the new working dog until the become best buddies!

Then tell them if they want the car keys in the future they need to love this new son of a bitch pup!\\/


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Hold the dog and tell the kid to run!


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Easy!! Take video games, cell phones, TV, CD's, DVD's, movies, idiot friends and any other distraction away from them. Lock them in a bedroom for a week with the new working dog until the become best buddies!
> 
> Then tell them if they want the car keys in the future they need to love this new son of a bitch pup!\\/


Brilliant!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Hold the dog and tell the kid to run!


Then let the dog go?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> Then let the dog go?


Take a wild guess!


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Easy!! Take video games, cell phones, TV, CD's, DVD's, movies, idiot friends and any other distraction away from them. Lock them in a bedroom for a week with the new working dog until the become best buddies!
> 
> Then tell them if they want the car keys in the future they need to love this new son of a bitch pup!\\/


Lee, does that work with wives too? :idea:

-Cheers


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

David Ruby said:


> Lee, does that work with wives too? :idea:
> 
> -Cheers


I'm still stumped on the wife one. Locking them in the bedroom alone is kind of like beating the shit out of yourself if you get my drift.


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## Rox Brummer (Jul 7, 2009)

My daughter is 4 and she LOVES working with the dogs. I have detection dogs and she just loves getting involved in training where she can, she hides scent, she washes and fills water buckets in kennels, she carries straw for the kennels, no problems. She enjoys every minute and is bugging me for her own dog. Dare I say she actually handles dogs better than my husband does? My son in only 2 and he isnt up for it at all. Yet. He is more into the horses.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

My kids don'tknow better. Neither did I. If the weather is good we go watch traIning. Is it bad i stay home with the kids. Don't train myself any more, kids can't left by themself yet (to young,2.5 yr and14 mo.)

The oldest may interact with the most social, easiest dog under strict supervision.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Rox Brummer said:


> My daughter is 4 and she LOVES working with the dogs. I have detection dogs and she just loves getting involved in training where she can, she hides scent, she washes and fills water buckets in kennels, she carries straw for the kennels, no problems. She enjoys every minute and is bugging me for her own dog. Dare I say she actually handles dogs better than my husband does? My son in only 2 and he isnt up for it at all. Yet. He is more into the horses.


When you teach her to pick up the terds send her over!:razz:


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I think like most things you expose them to it in a positive way, give them the opportunity, and if they are going to do it, they will. My son was very into the dogs when he was young, liked going to training (most of the time LOL), wanted to "train" the dogs, help care for them, was even learning to take bites at an early age. Kind of lost interest, then came back briefly, doing a little decoy work, then lost interest again. Now that he's 18 he's a "pet dog" type of person, he likes dogs, but has no interest in training or competing with them, just likes them for the companionship. His personal dog is about as "pet" as you can get in terms of her level of training. Very easy to live with, non destructive, walks on a leash kind of, etc but wouldn't know what "down" meant if you didn't give her some body cues to go with it. Can sit for a treat like nobodies business though LOL

But he does on occasion talk about getting back into it, so who knows. He's got the foundation training LOL he could always pick it up again later in life.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

David Ruby said:


> More of a general question (or perhaps two). For those of you with kids, how did you get your kids involved in working dogs? How did you get them interested in helping with training & dog maintenance, as well as wanting to drive hours & hours to train or watch a dog trial out in some middle-of-nowhere field?
> 
> Also, do you find there is a certain age where you are comfortable letting them interact with your high-drive working dog(s), or do you wait until they are old enough to no longer be rightfully considered "kids"? Specifically the supervised-around-appropriately-social-and-tolerant-dogs and the non-tart variety of kids.
> 
> -Cheers


I have a 13 year old that is starting helper work and might start training his own dog in September. He loves it. Been a tough balance he plays drums, football and a honour student to match. I am a proud papa. Picture of him tracking a dog below.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Then let the dog go?


That is the idea.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Back tie both the kid and the dog. Put muzzles on both.
then do the intro 
kid...dog 
dog ....kid


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

Both my son and my daughter have been involved in dog training. My daught started taking bites on a sleeve when she was abt 13. It was all very controlled and safe to make sure that her introduction to it was successful. My son got more involved and started working with a good friend of mine who is a Schutzhund decoy. He even invited Zachary to go train with him in Canada, but Zachary was unable to attend. I invited and encouraged both children to try different things and allowed them to say no if they were too nervous or not interested. The members at my first club were all supportive and took care to make sure that my children and all the dogs involved were kept as safe as possible.
Terry


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

do like the dumb chicks do that I have encountered at training.

If it is indoor training.... set the small childs chair up right inside the door, practically in front of it...where all the strange dogs come in to do bitework..while you are outside on your phone for 1/2 hour...

Let them go on the field and play with the whip, while the dogs are on it..or pick up the tugs and sleeves to run around and play with...

Or you can let them bring a cap-gun and shoot it all over around stranger's working dogs, while they are doing bitework..

Or the best is, just let them run around getting into whatever they want, and have the decoys babysit the kid, while you are in your car..in a hung over stupor..


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> do like the dumb chicks do that I have encountered at training.
> 
> If it is indoor training.... set the small childs chair up right inside the door, practically in front of it...where all the strange dogs come in to do bitework..while you are outside on your phone for 1/2 hour...
> 
> ...


Joby

You're being sarcastic right? ;-)


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

David Ruby said:


> More of a general question (or perhaps two). For those of you with kids, how did you get your kids involved in working dogs? How did you get them interested in helping with training & dog maintenance, as well as wanting to drive hours & hours to train or watch a dog trial out in some middle-of-nowhere field?
> 
> Also, do you find there is a certain age where you are comfortable letting them interact with your high-drive working dog(s), or do you wait until they are old enough to no longer be rightfully considered "kids"? Specifically the supervised-around-appropriately-social-and-tolerant-dogs and the non-tart variety of kids.
> 
> -Cheers


Toys and OB works


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> do like the dumb chicks do that I have encountered at training.
> 
> If it is indoor training.... set the small childs chair up right inside the door, practically in front of it...where all the strange dogs come in to do bitework..while you are outside on your phone for 1/2 hour...
> 
> ...


What club would even put up with this for a whole session let alone become a regular occurance? My club would say pack up your kids and dog and get the **** gone!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Joby
> 
> You're being sarcastic right? ;-)


there are a few out there Thomas...one girl came to mind in that post, she has done all of those things. The poor kid was crying when Steve (the decoy) had to go back on the field to work dogs, because "Steve doesn't like me anymore". 

I was outside one time an a pretty nasty gsd almost bit me, the guy just got it in from europe, and was not a great handler. When I went in the barn, I almost fell over the kid's chair that the mom had just settled him into, right at the door...so was like "hey buddy, why don't we move your chair over here, between these two horse carriages, so you can see better...the mom is off talking on her phone and comes in, and was asking who moved her kids chair...with a sour look on her face...the kid is 4 yrs old...

I said

"I DID, I figured I could babysit him much better over here, out of harms way, considering you put him right in front of the door, do you see that "dirty" ass GSD that just bit the decoy?, that dog just came in through that door. She shut up for a while....

then she asked anyone if they wanted any coffee or anything, that she was making a run...I gave her $5.00, got a small gas station coffee, and NO CHANGE...after I babysat her kid while she was gone for 20 minutes...
Then I got to listen her yell at the kid and watch her drag him by his arm and make him sit on top of MY Bitesuit when we moved outside, as she went back to her car for something that took her 10 minutes...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> What club would even put up with this for a whole session let alone become a regular occurance? My club would say pack up your kids and dog and get the **** gone!


she was a personal friend of the decoy who had a training group on Sundays., It was not a formal club...but still...

She came out a couple times, always late, one time probably still drunk from the night before, or on some pills or something...and was pissed because I would not do muzzle work with her dog because his muzzle did not fit properly, as she was arguing with me about how it was fine, the dog tore it off with his paw...truth is I was not gonna do it with her handling the dog period...

She came out a few times last fall, until we told her she needed to leave her son at home, and show up prepared to handle her dog responsibly, never came back, but I see her on facebook trying to find out where we train now, but no one answers her.....

real piece of work she is...


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Wow. Just...wow.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

anyhow...as to the OP...I dont have kids, was just trying to be funny about a not so funny thing...

My gf has 2 bigger kids, they interact with the dog. They do not try to take anything from her, dont give her a bath, and dont handle her, unless I am right there. She loves to take advantage of the 12 yr old, will lean on him til he almost falls over, he pets her a lot..


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

honestly, we didn't have a choice. We were three girls with parents that lived the Schutzhund Lifestyle. Every weekend we were on the road with the RV, the dogtrailer and travelled from Schutzhund Trial to Schutzhund Trial or from Training to Training. Every day we were out at the Kennels, cleaning kennels, feeding, exercising the dogs, running around having fun. 
We all had our own dogs. We all grew into training dogs. We never competed but we sure grew into training and left the competing to my parents. 
We traveled all over Germany, Switzerland, France, Denmark... pretty much anywhere where the big trials were and we literally grew up in the Dog Clubs all over Europe, rather than at home. :lol:
German Shepherds are in our genes and once I've got Kids, it'll probably be passed on. 
It's easy to expose them if you live the lifestyle and the kids grow into working dogs like a Farmkid would grow into working with horses and cattle. 

It's the lifestyle, embrace it. There is nothing better than watching a child having a close bond with a dog.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

we were training at a place that had much more to offer than just dog training, often with other people there as well.

The guy who let us use the property, was a gazillionaire. LOL

all types of exotic and weird animals...camel rides, pony rides, horse rides...carriage rides...etc...etc...atv's hot rods etc..etc...pogo sticks, pool..etc..

it was common for people to bring their friends and children. Usually they were off doing other things, and all were supervised properly..


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Joby Becker said:


> we were training at a place that had much more to offer than just dog training, often with other people there as well.
> 
> The guy who let us use the property, was a gazillionaire. LOL
> 
> ...


Please correct me if I am wrong, but could it be that the families over here are not as much involved as they are in the "motherland"? 

At least that is what I've noticed at different clubs. You generally don't see the kids or spouses out there. I am used to it that it is, in fact, a family event since you are out at the Club pretty much all day long until it gets dark and even after the sun went down, they are not done training, which is why, the entire family is out there supporting each other. 

However, the club you are talking about sounds like a Family dream and awesome!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Sandra King said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but could it be that the families over here are not as much involved as they are in the "motherland"?
> 
> At least that is what I've noticed at different clubs. You generally don't see the kids or spouses out there. I am used to it that it is, in fact, a family event since you are out at the Club pretty much all day long until it gets dark and even after the sun went down, they are not done training, which is why, the entire family is out there supporting each other.
> 
> However, the club you are talking about sounds like a Family dream and awesome!


The Motherland? LOL..

It was not a formal club, it was awesome while we were there...during the winter he had a couple breakins in his barns, even though I doubt it was dog related, we did move the group to ease his mind some. A couple of us will still go there occasionally, but no more a regular thing there.

The guy that owned the property was not into training dogs all that much, he like to hunt with his retriever though, part of what we did for him was pull out his shepherds and let them get a work out. I usually handled his dogs, 

The family dream was about being rich LOL...and having all the toys...I asked if he would adopt me, he declined. So then we asked if they would adopt my girl's 16 yr old, his 16 yr old kid has a corvette dragster that does mid 9's in the 1/4 mile, with a $40,000 motor that has been replaced more than once..


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Sure wish my family had had the same interest in my involvement in dog sports all those years as I did. They came to probably two events in over 15 years. To them, I was pushing the limit by just having the Dutch and German Shepherds around the household let alone get them involved in coming along. It was strictly tolerance on their part. So it was always a solo journey for me. Kids are now grown and the next generation are over often but daughter-in-law is afraid of the dogs so the grandkids dont have that exposure. With the exception of the DS, the others are great with kids. This is all why I have most of my dogs and training equipment now at my little farm just out of town. My sanctuary....


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

Unfortunately, with my son, he is desensitized to the dogs. He still gets excited about puppies, but he gets tired of getting mauled everytime they are out and run him down. On the positive side, he can probably handle most dogs better than your average pet owner. I dont really force anything on him. He does enjoy working the young pups on a rag. Nothing more humiliating then trying to get a young dog to bark for the rag with little luck then turning around 5 minutes later to hear that same dog yacking like a banshee for your five year old son!#-o If he wants to work a young pup I let him, but I dont try to make him. If you force it on them, they are going to end up not liking it. I also dont make him clean kennels or anything like that. Some people try to start there kids that way, but how enticing is cleaning up dog shit? JMHO


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

Just wanted to clarify the mauling is from little pups! figured I had some verbal butchering coming my way after I read that! probably still do! haha


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

sam wilks said:


> Just wanted to clarify the mauling is from little pups! figured I had some verbal butchering coming my way after I read that! probably still do! haha


pup teeth are sharp


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: " For those of you with kids, how did you get your kids involved in working dogs? "
>> you shouldn't try

" How did you get them interested in helping with training & dog maintenance, as well as wanting to drive hours & hours to train or watch a dog trial out in some middle-of-nowhere field?"
>> u probably can't and probably shouldn't try

" do you find there is a certain age where you are comfortable letting them interact with your high-drive working dog(s), or do you wait until they are old enough to no longer be rightfully considered "kids"? 
>> maturity comes at different ages and sometimes never at all.....
but it also requires knowledge of canine behavior and if they don't have that, or don't have an interest to learn it's even harder

Specifically the supervised-around-appropriately-social-and-tolerant-dogs and the non-tart variety of kids.
>> non-tart ?? looks like no prob on this one

imo the worst thing you as a serious dog enthusiast, is to force your enthusiasm on anyone else, especially kids
- kids either like animals or they don't and whether they really like them, which they would have to do if they were going to interact with WORKING dogs, only comes through time with animals

- we have 35-40 kids that come to our house every day, plus adults of different ages....i would like every one of them to enjoy our dog but some want nothing to do with it, some love to play with it and some are scared of it....
- i respect everyone and don't ever force the issue...and that means you have to "read people" just like you do a dog ... same goes when out in public .. when i see someone that is not comfortable around my dog i don't try and show it off or calm them, i move away
- since u sound like your are talking about your own kids, a lot of their choice has already been taken away and they have to deal with the dogs one way or another
- but i think u might actually develop their interest more if you always make a conscious effort to give them the space to NOT interact whenever the dogs are around and of course you should be damn sure you have absolute control of the dogs so they don't invade the kids space at ANY time
- i won't even let a kid in public approach my dog without the parent being in FRONT of the kid and meeting the dog first.....don't know about other countries anymore, but over here parents let the kids wander up to see dogs and hang in the background, especially if the dog "appears" calm, as in a down :-(
- in my work in homes, i see way too many rude parents with ruder dogs who think it's funny; all shapes and sizes of both 

different strokes, but that is the philosophy i use with other people and my dogs, and i do it the same whether they are family or total strangers, and i think it might apply in some ways to your question as well


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Interesting thread in some ways. I find it fascinating how people think kids should always have a choice in what they do today. Thisnis where them pussification of America starts. You don't give gids free choice about everything. I had none when I was growing up or I would have never chosen to do most things. Things like cleaning the yard, garden, or what ever would not have been my choice at a young age. I did what my "Parents" wanted or I got to do "nothing" else. I was given the choice of how long I wanted to spend doing what they wanted. I could spend all day(which resulted in me not getting to do anything else anyway) or I could get in and get the job done and do what I wanted when I was done. Didn't take me long to figure out that spending all day doing a two hour job was not what I was going to do. The comment about if a kid has something forced on him will make him not like it is way off base to my waynof thinking. I hated doing the yard as a kid, now I take care of big properties for other people and get paid well to do it and I love doing it because I am outside. I love taking a shit hole and turning it into a park. I think parents are way to concerned about immediate gratification. Immediate gratification is not the point to being a parent. Given a choice most kids will never get the experience they need to make good choices the rest of their lives. Your job is not to give them free choice and let them just do what they lile. Reading some of of the threads here makes me realize how different people are today. If you want them to work with dogs, teach them everything you know, or think you know, when they are young whether they like it or not. Some day, when they are more mature and settled, odds are they will turn back to what they learned as kids.


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

People aren't that much different. There have always been bratty, spoiled kids and there always will be. That must be the turning point into old age: when you think things were so much better when you were young.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Has nothing to do with old age little girl, I have a definite advantage over you. I have been watching the changes since I was younger than you. Besides, nothing I said had to do with kids being bratty. Where did that come from?


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Your post clearly implied that the way you were raised was "right" and that another way was "wrong," and would result in spoiled self-indulgent kids. I assume you have raised some really great kids yourself, otherwise your statements are out of place.

And being old is about age, but it's also about outlook. The old in outlook always bitch about the young... always have and always will.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I watched a 60 Minutes episode on this new generation . I forgot what they are called today but they are the kids of baby boomers and most the oldest are or just have finished college . They interviewed a group of college kids who admitted to the same weaknesses Don mentioned . 

They said for instance that they were use to instant gratification , something they get from the internet , computer games , texting , they way their parents did things for them and it was a tough transition for them when they went into to the workplace and weren't getting instant feedback on what and how they were doing things . They also had a tough time doing self initiated things because they were use to having things planned out for them by their parents . 10am swimming , 12 luch , 3pm soccer , 6 Boy Scouts , etc. The kids also admitted that early on the everyone's a winner thing was harmful to them as they got older . 

The show also pointed out some good points of that generation too and I agree with it . They are very morally sound , propably the highest educated , good at multi tasking , team players and are very strongly bonded to their family . I've seen this with my kids . They are so much farther ahead educationally then I was . They also seem so much more nieve(sp?) then when I was a kid . I listen in on my kids and their freinds and they don't swear and really look out for each other . At least around here it seems we are realizing the everyone's a winner thing was a failure . They have fazed that out and are pushing the kids harder along with expecting more self initiative . 

I've had my son in a 3 hour hockey program . 1 hour weight lifting , 1 hour on ice skating and 1 hour dryland training . Very old school . My kid was puking the first day . The differences between this generation and mine though were the older kids nowadays went up and asked Will if he was ok . In my day noone cared and were more apt to give you crap for it . I was proud of my son because he never gave up . Puked and finished out the next 3 hours without complaint . 

There are pros and cons with every generation . I think Don hit the nail on the head in pointing out the cons and they are something the kids of this generation are finding out is their weakness .


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jim Nash said:


> I watched a 60 Minutes episode on this new generation . I forgot what they are called today but they are the kids of baby boomers and most the oldest are or just have finished college . They interviewed a group of college kids who admitted to the same weaknesses Don mentioned .
> 
> They said for instance that they were use to instant gratification , something they get from the internet , computer games , texting , they way their parents did things for them and it was a tough transition for them when they went into to the workplace and weren't getting instant feedback on what and how they were doing things . They also had a tough time doing self initiated things because they were use to having things planned out for them by their parents . 10am swimming , 12 luch , 3pm soccer , 6 Boy Scouts , etc. The kids also admitted that early on the everyone's a winner thing was harmful to them as they got older .
> 
> ...


What a weird post. I can't find anything to argue about! :lol:


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

A very good post, Jim. I think we of the younger generations are realizing, too, that we will have to work a lot harder than our parents for what we get in life. Sad to say, but that is a reality you should prepare your kids for: having to work harder than you did for less than you have.

Everything is much more competitive now.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> Your post clearly implied that the way you were raised was "right" and that another way was "wrong," and would result in spoiled self-indulgent kids. I assume you have raised some really great kids yourself, otherwise your statements are out of place.
> 
> And being old is about age, but it's also about outlook. The old in outlook always bitch about the young... always have and always will.


Catherine, it is always the kids like yourself that like to think people haven't changed. It must be terrible to think you were just like us folks that have seen the changes. Why, you probably don't even know what life was like before computers, video games. and cell phones. Cell phones maybe. Yet you swear people were the same when you have so little to judge by. It is laughable though how much you want to be the same....but you are not. First off, people that voiced opinions such as yours were few and far between and are now famous. Today, everyone voices such opinions. You said in a post that kids have to work harder for less today. Kids today don't even know what work is. You think taking you cloths off is work. Hell, we did that for recreation when I was a kid. Now it is work. LOL


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Catherine, it is always the kids like yourself that like to think people haven't changed. It must be terrible to think you were just like us folks that have seen the changes. Why, you probably don't even know what life was like before computers, video games. and cell phones. Cell phones maybe. Yet you swear people were the same when you have so little to judge by. It is laughable though how much you want to be the same....but you are not. First off, people that voiced opinions such as yours were few and far between and are now famous. Today, everyone voices such opinions. You said in a post that kids have to work harder for less today. Kids today don't even know what work is. You think taking you cloths off is work. Hell, we did that for recreation when I was a kid. Now it is work. LOL


Clearly you don't know what you are talking about. Unemployment is higher today than ever before since the great depression... and that isn't going to change no matter what president is in office. Our country has 830 billion in student loan debt (this is even more than our nation's credit card debt) and it isn't getting paid. Why? Because there are too many qualified people and too few jobs, and because funding for scholarships has been slashed. In fact... it's another bubble that will probably burst. For those who will not be getting post-high school education... good luck finding a decent paying job with any kind of benefits and long term job security. I guess there's always the military, but that's hardly something that millions of people can have as a profession for the rest of their lives. Gone are the days when you can readily find a good long-term job with only a high school diploma.

Job benefits are being cut, student aid is being cut, social programs are being cut, retirement benefits are being cut etc. Many job openings are hiring only temporary "term" positions. You can forget about people buying houses because a mortgage prevents mobility... and the young know to move were the jobs are.

No. Young people today learn, one way or another, that they are on their own. There will likely be no social security or medicare when we are of retirement age, even though retirement age for us will be much older than it is for your generation. On top of that we will have to pay off the debt accrued by you and yours. Thanks.

And work? There are more people and fewer jobs. We have to be better at what we do than people of your generation, and there are fewer unions so we have to be willing to work longer hours for less pay and weaker benefits. As a scientist, it must be nice to have a secure job working for the government or at a university, but those jobs are incredibly hard to get. I have spent my working years as a biologist netting sea lampreys out of Lake Huron, testing water for bacterial contamination, slogging through South American jungles trapping insects, and hiking 15-20 miles per day in the Arizona summer doing rattle snake population studies. I could go on, but what's the point... we young people have no idea what hard work is.

But the more likely scenario is that you are so hung up about our phone and computer use (both of which have LARGE positive aspects) that you can't see the forest for the trees.


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.


The above quote is attributed to Socrates by Plato.

Terry


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Terry Devine said:


> The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
> 
> 
> The above quote is attributed to Socrates by Plato.
> ...


Like I said: some things never change.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jim said;
" good at multi tasking". 


Not such a big deal. The older I get the better I multi-task.
I can sneeze, fart and piss my pants all at the same time.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Bob Scott said:


> Jim said;
> " good at multi tasking".
> 
> 
> ...


Guess you got to work on that burp then. Sneeze, fart, piss and burb... now thats the ultimate multitasker.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

bob scott said:


> jim said;
> " good at multi tasking".
> 
> 
> ...


lmfao =d>


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

You forgot about picking your nose!!!!


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Shane Woodlief said:


> I have a 13 year old that is starting helper work and might start training his own dog in September. He loves it. Been a tough balance he plays drums, football and a honour student to match. I am a proud papa. Picture of him tracking a dog below.


Good looking boy you got there Shane!! He is something to be proud of sounds like to me. My son always loved the dogs and interacted with them quite a bit. He never cared much for training them he preferred wrenching on a truck or motorcycle.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

catherine hardigan said:


> Clearly you don't know what you are talking about. Unemployment is higher today than ever before since the great depression... and that isn't going to change no matter what president is in office. Our country has 830 billion in student loan debt (this is even more than our nation's credit card debt) and it isn't getting paid. Why? Because there are too many qualified people and too few jobs, and because funding for scholarships has been slashed. In fact... it's another bubble that will probably burst. For those who will not be getting post-high school education... good luck finding a decent paying job with any kind of benefits and long term job security. I guess there's always the military, but that's hardly something that millions of people can have as a profession for the rest of their lives. Gone are the days when you can readily find a good long-term job with only a high school diploma.
> 
> Job benefits are being cut, student aid is being cut, social programs are being cut, retirement benefits are being cut etc. Many job openings are hiring only temporary "term" positions. You can forget about people buying houses because a mortgage prevents mobility... and the young know to move were the jobs are.
> 
> ...


So what you do is keep moving forward and improvise and overcome. Much of your post reeks of entitlement which has infected our culture. You don't see it because your perspective is what it is. I think its great that your out there with a hump in your back "gittin it" as we say down south. Just a little side note for ya. The "unions" your talking about are the very reason we have fewer jobs. I live in a right to work state and we have always made it just fine without a union. I will give you a a good example of the lack of manners and the "me" mentality. I gave you a sincere apology in public and private for something I said I felt was off base. Did you reply?? Or did you think "screw him" when you read it?? Or is it just typical where your from to dismiss people who you have had disagreements with? Or is it because your a scientist and "educated" that it's beneath you to actually agree with a hick like me? Your post is "poor pitiful me". We live in a society where "the poor" have big screen tv's and cellphones and little cards they swipe to get baskets full of groceries, free medical care and a tax return (never figured out how you get money back from the gov that you didn't pay to start with). Sorry no pity here!!


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I thought of Don's "POA" theory the other day. I was at a big public swimming pool with lots o' kids running around.

Watching all the boys and girls having to plug their nose to jump off the diving board made me think....maybe kids ARE all wimps these days.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I thought of Don's "POA" theory the other day. I was at a big public swimming pool with lots o' kids running around.
> 
> Watching all the boys and girls having to plug their nose to jump off the diving board made me think....maybe kids ARE all wimps these days.


LMFAO I keep having this visual after reading your post of lil abner doing his "belly buster" HAHAHAHA


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"But the more likely scenario is that you are so hung up about our phone and computer use (both of which have LARGE positive aspects) that you can't see the forest for the trees."_

I am pretty sure this is the underlying problem. No one on this thread (except a couple of younguns) uses those newfangled gadgets. Computers! :-o



:lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Anyone just use their cell phone to make and receive phone calls ONLY?

CALL ME and talk for a few minutes or an hour, but don't send me 50 texts.....


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> _"But the more likely scenario is that you are so hung up about our phone and computer use (both of which have LARGE positive aspects) that you can't see the forest for the trees."_
> 
> I am pretty sure this is the underlying problem. No one on this thread (except a couple of younguns) uses those newfangled gadgets. Computers! :-o
> 
> ...


*sigh* Connie I hate when you interject with reality!! I wanna be 29 again damnit LOL


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> Anyone just use their cell phone to make and receive phone calls ONLY?
> 
> CALL ME and talk for a few minutes or an hour, but don't send me 50 texts.....



I betcha you have no time for 50 texts because you are too busy tweeting. :lol: :wink:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I betcha you have no time for 50 texts because you are too busy tweeting. :lol: :wink:


I don't even know what tweeting is. I'm on Facebook but don't "get" the whole purpose or theory. I just learned how to send and receive text messages since I got home from the hospital with no voice.

I'm a stone age fossil I guess!](*,):-D


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I don't even know what tweeting is. I'm on Facebook but don't "get" the whole purpose or theory. I just learned how to send and receive text messages since I got home from the hospital with no voice.
> 
> I'm a stone age fossil I guess!](*,):-D


Join the crowd Lee ughhhh


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Brian Anderson said:


> Join the crowd Lee ughhhh


I don't much care about a lot of that stuff but I really do wish I wasn't so computer challenged. I was lazy for many years. I was a businessman with secretaries I could count on to be computer literate. Now I'm retired and stupid.:sad:


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Up until I became a single father I thought texting was stupid . For a single guy it is awesome . Women say and send things in texts they never would in person . Speeds up things during the dating process ALOT . 

Still don't get why people will spend hours typing when they could just dial the damn phone and get it over with but it does have it's benefits . 

Haven't tweeted yet , I'm not into Facebook , just don't care to know all the boring stuff people do everyday . It's good for getting in touch with old friends but then I just get their phone number and call them . I'm getting harrassed by this new computer I bought to sign up for Skype . WTF is that ?!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

It all depends upon the level of "working dog." 
When many kids can't or will not make their own bed, how would you trust them or the dog together. AGE isn't always the marker of measure here; responsibility and "knowing" the dog are! High drive dogs can be too much for some handlers, so what will happen with a kid? The classic introductions: being kennels helpers, brushing the dog, basic obedience UNDER adult supervision, these are the starters I would want to see!!!


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

My husband finally texted me for the first time ever today! Usually he will just call me back with an answer. He seriously hates texting. Hmm he must not have been in a postition to make a call and it was just a simple yes or no answer anyway. But I did get all excited and text him back " OMFG you texted me"! :lol:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Don't do facebook, don't tweet, don't linkinden, don't text, use the computer for dog stuff and store pictures, use the cell phone(which the GF insisted on for emergencies and she pays for) except in emergencies but I am usually where there is no reception anyway. Got a swamp cooler and burn wood for heat. My brother called me twice today to tell me about his new cell phone. On the second call I asked him if he had some more earth shattering reason for calling than telling me how he can touch the screen on his new phone because I had things to do. I just don't see the addiction. A new gun I could understand, but a phone????


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> ... A new gun I could understand, but a phone????


How about a picture of the new gun sent on the new phone? :lol:


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> My husband finally texted me for the first time ever today! Usually he will just call me back with an answer. He seriously hates texting. Hmm he must not have been in a postition to make a call and it was just a simple yes or no answer anyway. But I did get all excited and text him back " OMFG you texted me"! :lol:


Text him the right picture and I'll guarantee he will text more .


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> My husband finally texted me for the first time ever today! Usually he will just call me back with an answer. He seriously hates texting. Hmm he must not have been in a postition to make a call and it was just a simple yes or no answer anyway. But I did get all excited and text him back " OMFG you texted me"! :lol:


Michelle thats hilarious because my wife just said that to me yesterday :lol:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Don't do facebook, don't tweet, don't linkinden, don't text, use the computer for dog stuff and store pictures, use the cell phone(which the GF insisted on for emergencies and she pays for) except in emergencies but I am usually where there is no reception anyway. Got a swamp cooler and burn wood for heat. My brother called me twice today to tell me about his new cell phone. On the second call I asked him if he had some more earth shattering reason for calling than telling me how he can touch the screen on his new phone because I had things to do. I just don't see the addiction. A new gun I could understand, but a phone????


The other issue is you have to learn how to use all this "new" shit. But that's another story all together.](*,)


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Well between driving an old truck with no power steering, hauling doubles at 80,000lbs or screwing around on a jobsite with various people and equipment rolling on the side of the highway somewhere, it can be difficult to answer the phone when it rings, so I think texting when I have a moment to get back to someone works best. I'm trying to get that accrossed to my husband. No dropped call or me having to hang up because someone is flagging me down for work reasons. It's short and to the point. All I wanted to know was if he had got the trailer tires replaced and onto the job. I got a "yes" so no more worries for the day.


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Brian Anderson said:


> So what you do is keep moving forward and improvise and overcome. Much of your post reeks of entitlement which has infected our culture. You don't see it because your perspective is what it is. I think its great that your out there with a hump in your back "gittin it" as we say down south. Just a little side note for ya. The "unions" your talking about are the very reason we have fewer jobs. I live in a right to work state and we have always made it just fine without a union. I will give you a a good example of the lack of manners and the "me" mentality. I gave you a sincere apology in public and private for something I said I felt was off base. Did you reply?? Or did you think "screw him" when you read it?? Or is it just typical where your from to dismiss people who you have had disagreements with? Or is it because your a scientist and "educated" that it's beneath you to actually agree with a hick like me? Your post is "poor pitiful me". We live in a society where "the poor" have big screen tv's and cellphones and little cards they swipe to get baskets full of groceries, free medical care and a tax return (never figured out how you get money back from the gov that you didn't pay to start with). Sorry no pity here!!


I have no idea who you are or what you said to me, but apparently you do. If I didn't respond to your apology it was probably because I stopped paying attention. Why are you offended? If you think that people don't give you apologies because of your profession, then that sounds like a personal problem of yours. Consider this: whatever you wrote a person with good manners wouldn't have written in the first place, so perhaps a little self-reflection is due.

At what point in my post did I say "poor pitiful me?" What in particular reeked of entitlement? The fact is that there are more people and fewer jobs. In such a competitive work environment we young people have to be better at what we do than older generations. Not only that but we're stuck with the bill that older generations racked up over the last few decades. In summation... more people in the workplace, many fewer jobs, and more debt for the young to pay off. This is not a pity party, these are facts. And unions didn't cause the decrease in American jobs, screwed up trade agreements with other countries did. Either way those jobs have moved overseas and will not be returning. 

And for all you old geezers out there: go to Chat Roulette.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

catherine hardigan said:


> I have no idea who you are or what you said to me, but apparently you do. If I didn't respond to your apology it was probably because I stopped paying attention. Why are you offended? If you think that people don't give you apologies because of your profession, then that sounds like a personal problem of yours. Consider this: whatever you wrote a person with good manners wouldn't have written in the first place, so perhaps a little self-reflection is due.
> 
> At what point in my post did I say "poor pitiful me?" What in particular reeked of entitlement? The fact is that there are more people and fewer jobs. In such a competitive work environment we young people have to be better at what we do than older generations. Not only that but we're stuck with the bill that older generations racked up over the last few decades. In summation... more people in the workplace, many fewer jobs, and more debt for the young to pay off. This is not a pity party, these are facts. And unions didn't cause the decrease in American jobs, screwed up trade agreements with other countries did. Either way those jobs have moved overseas and will not be returning.
> 
> And for all you old geezers out there: go to Chat Roulette.


Im not offended in the least ;-)


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

catherine hardigan said:


> I have no idea who you are or what you said to me, but apparently you do. If I didn't respond to your apology it was probably because I stopped paying attention. Why are you offended? If you think that people don't give you apologies because of your profession, then that sounds like a personal problem of yours. Consider this: whatever you wrote a person with good manners wouldn't have written in the first place, so perhaps a little self-reflection is due.
> 
> At what point in my post did I say "poor pitiful me?" What in particular reeked of entitlement? The fact is that there are more people and fewer jobs. In such a competitive work environment we young people have to be better at what we do than older generations. Not only that but we're stuck with the bill that older generations racked up over the last few decades. In summation... more people in the workplace, many fewer jobs, and more debt for the young to pay off. This is not a pity party, these are facts. And unions didn't cause the decrease in American jobs, screwed up trade agreements with other countries did. Either way those jobs have moved overseas and will not be returning.
> 
> And for all you old geezers out there: go to Chat Roulette.


What did I do?


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> I have no idea who you are or what you said to me, but apparently you do. If I didn't respond to your apology it was probably because I stopped paying attention. Why are you offended? If you think that people don't give you apologies because of your profession, then that sounds like a personal problem of yours. Consider this: whatever you wrote a person with good manners wouldn't have written in the first place, so perhaps a little self-reflection is due.
> 
> At what point in my post did I say "poor pitiful me?" What in particular reeked of entitlement? The fact is that there are more people and fewer jobs. In such a competitive work environment we young people have to be better at what we do than older generations. Not only that but we're stuck with the bill that older generations racked up over the last few decades. In summation... more people in the workplace, many fewer jobs, and more debt for the young to pay off. This is not a pity party, these are facts. And unions didn't cause the decrease in American jobs, screwed up trade agreements with other countries did. Either way those jobs have moved overseas and will not be returning.
> 
> And for all you old geezers out there: go to Chat Roulette.


I am not offended either. I consider the source and your young, got your own ideas and think everything is everyone elses fault. It may come as a surprise to you, but, most of us older folks pretty much thought we knew it all at your age also. It was quite a shock to most of us to find out those older people weren't as dumb as we originally thought they were. One day the young will be blaming you as the root of all their problems just like we did, then one day you will have a brain fart and realize that you were not as all knowing as you once perceived yourself as being.


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## Thomas Jones (Feb 4, 2011)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Interesting thread in some ways. I find it fascinating how people think kids should always have a choice in what they do today. Thisnis where them pussification of America starts. You don't give gids free choice about everything. I had none when I was growing up or I would have never chosen to do most things. Things like cleaning the yard, garden, or what ever would not have been my choice at a young age. I did what my "Parents" wanted or I got to do "nothing" else. I was given the choice of how long I wanted to spend doing what they wanted. I could spend all day(which resulted in me not getting to do anything else anyway) or I could get in and get the job done and do what I wanted when I was done. Didn't take me long to figure out that spending all day doing a two hour job was not what I was going to do. The comment about if a kid has something forced on him will make him not like it is way off base to my waynof thinking. I hated doing the yard as a kid, now I take care of big properties for other people and get paid well to do it and I love doing it because I am outside. I love taking a shit hole and turning it into a park. I think parents are way to concerned about immediate gratification. Immediate gratification is not the point to being a parent. Given a choice most kids will never get the experience they need to make good choices the rest of their lives. Your job is not to give them free choice and let them just do what they lile. Reading some of of the threads here makes me realize how different people are today. If you want them to work with dogs, teach them everything you know, or think you know, when they are young whether they like it or not. Some day, when they are more mature and settled, odds are they will turn back to what they learned as kids.


just a lil something my dad told me one time. He's 64. He said when he was a kid if he was doing something wrong and the neighbor's dad or mama saw him doing it they would whip his ass on the spot then take him home where his mom would do the same. Nowadays a teacher can't paddle a student. He also said back then people were just better overall people


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I am not offended either. I consider the source and your young, got your own ideas and think everything is everyone elses fault. It may come as a surprise to you, but, most of us older folks pretty much thought we knew it all at your age also. It was quite a shock to most of us to find out those older people weren't as dumb as we originally thought they were. One day the young will be blaming you as the root of all their problems just like we did, then one day you will have a brain fart and realize that you were not as all knowing as you once perceived yourself as being.


* * *
“When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years.”
Mark Twain


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> What did I do?


You seriously have to ask? Okay, I'll break it down. The voting public is responsible for the actions (and inactions) of its government. This country is a democracy and that is how things work. Under the voting tenure of the older living generations the following have happened:

1. Vietnam, a military action that cost over 30 thousand American lives, many tens of thousands of Southeast Asian lives, and still didn't prevent the spread of communism.

2. Bloated social programs (social security, medicare, medicaid etc.) that people enjoy having, but are expensive and nobody wants to pay for.

3. Trade agreements that favor corporate profits over American jobs, and facilitate the manufacturing sector moving overseas. 

4. The funding and weaponry supply of several proxy wars.

5. Slashing educations funding. This is part of the reason that college tuition rates have gone up between 300-400% over the last 30 years. The days of working your way through college are gone. The days of many tens of thousands in student loan debt are here to stay.

6. Deregulation of our financial sector resulting in the housing bubble and the loss of millions of peoples' retirement savings.

7. Enacting two simultaneous wars and borrowing money from China to pay for them.

The list could easily go on, but these are some of the salient points. But of course the tab was kicked down to my generation to deal with. You are responsible for the things that happen under your watch. Personally, since social security and medicare will likely no longer exist when I am able to retire, I have been actively working for the speedy dismantling of both these programs. My generation has enough to pay for without footing the bill for the greedy self-indulgence of the baby boomers.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

:-o . Holly shit Lee you really f***ed us over !


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I am not offended either. I consider the source and your young, got your own ideas and think everything is everyone elses fault. It may come as a surprise to you, but, most of us older folks pretty much thought we knew it all at your age also. It was quite a shock to most of us to find out those older people weren't as dumb as we originally thought they were. One day the young will be blaming you as the root of all their problems just like we did, then one day you will have a brain fart and realize that you were not as all knowing as you once perceived yourself as being.


Ya know when I figured out what a vulnerable little no nothing shit I was. 1966, Marble Mountain, South Vietnam, perimeter guard duty during my first enemy rocket attack. Until then I thought I was a big shot know it all. Grew up real fast while I almost pissed my pants!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> *This country is a democracy *and that is how things work.




A democracy has citizens deciding policy directly, through town/city-hall meetings and/or ballot initiatives, etc. 

In a republic, like the United States, we elect representatives who make policy decisions on our behalf.


_
" .... to the *republic*, for which it stands .... "_


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Jim Nash said:


> :-o . Holly shit Lee you really f***ed us over !


I suppose the stripper expects a apology!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> My generation has enough to pay for without footing the bill for the greedy self-indulgence of the baby boomers.


Very familiar .... from rallies and speeches in the 60s. 

We didn't have the term "baby boomers," but "the establishment" worked.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Very general responses .... what defines a republic and how every generation rants against the one immediately preceding.

Real political discussions, though .... this is not the venue.



In fact, in hindsight, I shouldn't have defined anything. :lol:


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Very general responses .... what defines a republic and how every generation rants against the one immediately preceding.
> 
> Real political discussions, though .... this is not the venue.
> 
> ...


Okay, your generations are responsible for the elected officials in Washington, and at the state capitals. Ultimately they are representing the wishes of their constituents. The issues I listed are the results of the will of the voters as enacted by their _chosen_ representatives. 

If this is not the case, then America really is beyond repair.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

catherine hardigan said:


> Okay, your generations are responsible for the elected officials in Washington, and at the state capitals. Ultimately they are representing the wishes of their constituents. The issues I listed are the results of the will of the voters as enacted by their _chosen_ representatives.
> 
> If this is not the case, then America really is beyond repair.


Good argument and beyond reproach I do believe. NICE!!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

and back to ....



David Ruby said:


> More of a general question (or perhaps two). For those of you with kids, how did you get your kids involved in working dogs? How did you get them interested in helping with training & dog maintenance, as well as wanting to drive hours & hours to train or watch a dog trial out in some middle-of-nowhere field?
> 
> Also, do you find there is a certain age where you are comfortable letting them interact with your high-drive working dog(s), or do you wait until they are old enough to no longer be rightfully considered "kids"? Specifically the supervised-around-appropriately-social-and-tolerant-dogs and the non-tart variety of kids.
> 
> -Cheers


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> and back to ....


Perfect timing! I was about to really cut loose and have some fun!#-o:-D


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Catherine, You and yours have been voting for a few years now. I am simply astonished at the changes you have made under what is now "your watch". The changes you have seen and the trillion dollar+ budget is your fault as the new voter and future older person. May as well get used to hearing it now.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

catherine hardigan said:


> Okay, your generations are responsible for the elected officials in Washington, and at the state capitals. Ultimately they are representing the wishes of their constituents. The issues I listed are the results of the will of the voters as enacted by their _chosen_ representatives.
> 
> If this is not the case, then America really is beyond repair.


You really believe that do you? God help us.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> and back to ....


It's addictive, they can't stop!:lol:


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I suppose the stripper expects a apology!


Goodness. Here I have getting lectured about how the young have no manners or civility. Don't let some older folks on here read this... it will blow their "back when I was a kid we were taught manners" theory out of the water.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I am done, Connie. I didn't read the previous messages you posted before I posted. I know a fruitless discussion anyway.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

catherine hardigan said:


> Goodness. Here I have getting lectured about how the young have no manners or civility. Don't let some older folks on here read this... it will blow their "back when I was a kid we were taught manners" theory out of the water.


No harm, no foul, Catherine! I actually get a kick out of your refreshing opinionated posts. You are obviously highly educated and make your points clear.

Some people though might find some of your posts offensive. I suffered from some medical issues from the war of my generation. No problem I can handle it!

If you can dish it out then you damn well better be able to handle the insults, because I can.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I am done, Connie. I didn't read the previous messages you posted before I posted. I know a fruitless discussion anyway.


Me too! I just wanted to be done after Don was done for once!=;


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Terry Devine said:


> You forgot about picking your nose!!!!


 NU UH! That's for single tasking only!
Get careless with a sneeze mid pick and you'll poke yer eye out.
Kinda like the official Red Ryder BB gun. Lots of fun but dangerous when you get careless.;-)


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

sam wilks said:


> Just wanted to clarify the mauling is from little pups! figured I had some verbal butchering coming my way after I read that! probably still do! haha


No, that makes sense. I've only been around two litters of herders (one Dutchie litter, one Mal litter), and they are like little sharks. Still cute, and fun, but I enjoyed hanging out with the litter of Malinois pups a lot more than my wife and daughter. Something about being swarmed by a furry pack of small creatures with sharp teeth and claws appealed much less to them than to me. I actually got to feed the Dutchies and it seemed like they liked the taste of flesh almost as much as whatever food the breeder was letting me give them. Painful, but still fun. 

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Boy, this topic got kinda diverse. I was busy this weekend and it kind of went a little nuts here. So I got that the Internet, cell phones, central heating/air, are all possibly awesome or the downfall of civilization. I'm not sure which, but it is probably one or the other. Strangely, I think all of us think guns are cool while obnoxious kids & the dumb chick at Joby's training totally suck. Somehow we got Greek philosophy and the definition of a Republic in there as well. Did I miss anything else?

Back to the subject . . . It _was_ a serious, legit question. My take on it is, this is something I enjoy. Well, dogs in general. My daughter (and wife, but that's a whole other issue) will have to "deal" with dogs by living with them and putting up with my interest in them. As far as the working of dogs, that is nothing I am going to require of my child(ren). Maybe I'm pussifying my daughter, but I would rather provide a nice structure and let her find her own way. It is not like working dogs are some strong NEED for her in the suburban life style we currently live in.

If I were living where I legitimately needed dogs for hunting, or were in a Police setting, or something where it were less of a choice and more of a necessity Don's advice would be more appropriate. The cleaning up of and general manners around dogs, that I expect. But the getting involved in working dogs, or even basic pet-level stuff like grooming, OB, and going to & listening to a trainer, that will really be up to her. I will give every feasible opportunity and support whichever direction she takes. I also have to admit, I am not terribly concerned about "what's wrong with kids these days" so much as what to do to keep my daughter from being a problem child. So far she is doing fine, and does very little computer or video game stuff, and does not own a cell phone (she just turned four), so she might grow up to be o.k. in Don's book. We'll just cross our fingers here & hope. 

From the posts thus far, I think I tend to be more along the lines of how Kadi & Howard Gaines III described it, as well as how I think Seleena (waaaaaaay back on page 2) was describing how they just grow up with it and do not know any better. Well, that and Joby's point about not being the "dumb chick" at training. I want to introduce her to this stuff, not make it a chore. I also have no intention of letting any kid(s) I have, or am taking care of, run around being stupid at training, of working dogs or otherwise. I believe my trainers would be less than tolerant of that and I am just not wired to let kids behave that way; I'd just take them home and not bring them back until/unless they grew up enough to not try that in the first place.

Anyway, mostly, I am trying to find ways to plant the seed as far as being good around dogs (which she's got), doing structured stuff with dogs (we do some basic OB around the house and she will make the dog do stupid pet tricks before feeding her), and introducing training & awareness of actual working dog stuff. It is a personal value that I want to at least share with my kid(s), instill as a passion if anything and not something I want to ram down their throat. Hopefully that makes sense.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

rick smith said:


> re: " For those of you with kids, how did you get your kids involved in working dogs? "
> >> you shouldn't try
> 
> " How did you get them interested in helping with training & dog maintenance, as well as wanting to drive hours & hours to train or watch a dog trial out in some middle-of-nowhere field?"
> ...


I DID read this and meant to come back to it earlier. Specifically this:

*imo the worst thing you as a serious dog enthusiast, is to force your enthusiasm on anyone else, especially kids
- kids either like animals or they don't and whether they really like them, which they would have to do if they were going to interact with WORKING dogs, only comes through time with animals*

I would rather _foster_ the love of animals. I really only demand manners around them, if that makes any sense. I also wanted to make sure Rick knew I DID actually read the post, and happen to find value in it as well.

-Cheers


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## Ingrid Rosenquist (Mar 27, 2006)

The group I train with is a small informal group that only has about 8 people in it. We train at the house of the TD (wife) and helper (Husband). They have two daughters who are now 15 and 17 who grew up around the sport. Both girls are accomplished trianers who put BH to SchH III/FH on their personal dogs before they turned 15. They have V'd in all three phases (not necessarily in the same trial) and have even turned in a 100 in tracking in one case.

I watched both these girls grow up and their parents never tried to force the sport on them. With that said, when the parents were out training, the girls had to be outside. No TV. No internet. They had a jungle gym fenced off to the side of the field where they could play and be observed. When they were younger, their parents would make sure they had coloring books etc and were safely supervised.

As the girls got older they wanted to work dogs as well and they started with their mom's old competition dog. That dog must have had the BH and OB-1 patterns memorized by the time those girls got their own dogs to work 

Both girls still have dogs but don't really compete because their focus has turned more to the training of their horses. Their parents are fine with that. I think one of the keys to these girls successes is their parents did not use the TV and computer as a babysitter. Books, playing outside, watching training were the things that they did. Sure, when the kids were young it would have been far easier to just pluck them in front of a TV but they would not have learned as much as they did by having to use their minds to create their "horse shows" in the playground area or by watching training etc. 

At the end of the day, you can only safely expose kids to the sport and leave it up to them if it is something that they wish to get involved with.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

My kids grew up around dogs and dog people. We never pushed it on them. It was just normal to have big bad ass dogs around all the time to them. They both learned to read dogs pretty well but neither showed any interest in them as time went on. I think in their mind dogs are hard work, training is hard work, it costs quite a bit of money. 
The end result:
MY son has a cat and my daughter has a little turd hustler dog of some kind. Neither could care less about a working dog. My son was stationed in Afghanistan and called to tell me that one of the K9 guys there had a nice DS but didn't know shit about dogs and he had been helping him in his spare time. That was pretty cool!!


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I have a 16 year old that has been raised around dogs. We raised him to respect life, period--human or animal. His pet is a 9 year old cat. The dog pets are MINE. Hubby and son help when I need brawn or if I was traveling for work but they aren't resposible for the dogs. My kid has requested I get a GSD and says if I need help he will help. He's never cleaned up after a dog. When he was 8, he asked if he could have his own dog. I told him if he put his name on one, he was 100% responsible and that included if he packed his bags for sleepovers, doggie goes with. His response, "maybe I'm not old enough." These days with school and music and his fantasy of playing soccer [time???], other than occasionally helping me at a trial or doing my dog yard lawn work when I need help, he doesn't have time to be a full time dog handler. I expect any dog in my house to treat a child like god. Its a two way street in terms of training and expectation. We work with every person to their own hobby and we support them in it. Yesterday, I was training before the temps hit 100 degrees. Hubby and son don't want to hang out. Its the same when I'm trialing in 20 degrees or pouring rain. I don't wan to go to radio club meetings but I will help you cook something for the annual picnic. If my son has a trumpet gig, we're there.


T


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