# A couple of interesting GSDbreedings here.



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Not a breeding ad, but one that could be interesting from a "Were the old dogs bettter?" point of view.
A guy over here has just had a couple of AI breedings to some well known old dogs. 
He has four pups from Natan Busecker Schloss and two puppies from Gento v h Larwin.
It will be interesting to see how the pups compare to the newer dogs.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Frawley did the same thing in 06.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Yeah, I havent heard much about how they turned out. 
Its just gonna be interesting to see how these top dogs of their time compare to todays dogs. 
The Gento one is more interesting to me.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> Yeah, I havent heard much about how they turned out.
> Its just gonna be interesting to see how these top dogs of their time compare to todays dogs.
> The Gento one is more interesting to me.


My guess will be nothing special what used to get people all whipped up years ago prolly not so much any more lotso great dogs have come and gone some of them old dogs weren't as great as made up to be.
Shitty training and lack of control doesn't make a dog great.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> My guess will be nothing special what used to get people all whipped up years ago prolly not so much any more lotso great dogs have come and gone some of them old dogs weren't as great as made up to be.
> Shitty training and lack of control doesn't make a dog great.


Could well be. Thats why it should be interesting to see. You always hear how the old dogs were more serious, stronger etc, so lets see if theres much if any difference.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> Could well be. Thats why it should be interesting to see. You always hear how the old dogs were more serious, stronger etc, so lets see if theres much if any difference.


Keep a eye out for them and keep up dating if you can.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

who were they bred to?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

When I see some of the old youtube video on dogs from the 30s, etc all I see is crappier training. Nothing to say the dogs themselves are any better. I do believe that, in general today, more people are breeding just cause they can instead of for the good of the breed as a working dog. That can put more crap in the gene pool.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

im no breeder but i think its a lot to do with personal opinion i knew a guy who had a dog of gento and thought he was ok but he wasnt his favourite dog but others absolutely raved about him.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

ann schnerre said:


> who were they bred to?


 They were females that were a mix of West/DDR and Czech. Not my cup of tea, but its the results that carry weight.
For me another good thing that comes from these litters is that the semen was frozen along time ago, couple of decades ago even. I was starting to have my doubts about wether frozen semen actually lasts as long as they were telling us. Between the semen comming into Oz and getting some litters on the ground a few attempts were made with it and no puppies. So that is some good news for owners of frozen semen.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

is it von forrell who has done the breeding chris?


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

brad robert said:


> is it von forrell who has done the breeding chris?


 Yeah it was Kris. I saw three dogs from his first Gento litter (Robbie, Pam and Ziggy) and they were good dogs. Ziggy was owned by a guy here in Adelaide, very serious and dominant dog. I liked him.
But then apparently there was a second litter to Gento and they were all spayed. Also Tannie was bred to Gento and Ted Young had them in Hawaii. Apparently they were train wrecks. It would appear Gento was a bit hit and miss. 
Would be good to see how they come up.


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## Chi Nguyen (May 23, 2010)

Hi all,

The bitch bred to Natan is Unique Von Forell and I have seen her in person, she is an awesome dog, very strong! She is not your average bitch and can definitely hold her own amongst good working males. The pups from this litter should be great also but I guess only time will tell.

Chi


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Chi Nguyen said:


> Hi all,
> 
> The bitch bred to Natan is Unique Von Forell and I have seen her in person, she is an awesome dog, very strong! She is not your average bitch and can definitely hold her own amongst good working males. The pups from this litter should be great also but I guess only time will tell.
> 
> Chi


always nice to see a bitch like this Chi. You got video to post so we can see her. Thanks in advance.


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## Chi Nguyen (May 23, 2010)

Hi Harry,

Unfortunately I didn't take any footage the last time I saw her. Your best bet would be to contact Kris directly to find out more info:

www.vonforell.com
Email: [email protected]
Telephone: +61 3 5786 5388
Mobile: 0418 348 804


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

I don't know what is meant by crappier training. I saw some videos on vombanholz.be and i was amazed at how much corrections those dogs would take and not even blink. There was a guy that even ran up to the dog and hit it on the head repeatedly-the dog still focused on th helper...i felt bad for the dog but was still impressed. I can't say those dogs were harder than say stuka, or stormfront's brawnson but the thing is today's trainers will never be as hard in tarining as those old guys.
Sometimes i think all this cry about the fall of working Gsds is a marketing strategy, i mean look at czech kennels like anrebri etc those people are still producing wonderful dogs if you need a good dog find a good breeder, they are not many but also not extinct.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Christopher Jones said:


> Yeah it was Kris. I saw three dogs from his first Gento litter (Robbie, Pam and Ziggy) and they were good dogs. Ziggy was owned by a guy here in Adelaide, very serious and dominant dog. I liked him.
> But then apparently there was a second litter to Gento and they were all spayed. Also Tannie was bred to Gento and Ted Young had them in Hawaii. Apparently they were train wrecks. It would appear Gento was a bit hit and miss.
> Would be good to see how they come up.


Thanks chris figured it must have been.My friend owned Robbie then sold him on.will be interesting to hear the outcome.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> When I see some of the old youtube video on dogs from the 30s, etc all I see is crappier training. Nothing to say the dogs themselves are any better. I do believe that, in general today, more people are breeding just cause they can instead of for the good of the breed as a working dog. That can put more crap in the gene pool.


Agreed, Bob!

With regards to the Busecker Schloss line, Alfred Hahn was one of THE breeders in his time. He attended all the shows, read all the Körung reports and books, noted all the offspring of the stud dogs and would never breed from a dog that had not much pigment. He combined lack of pigment with lack of nerves. The Dutch Breeder Koos in an interview said that Hahn liked "dark coated dogs". He didn't only like them, he would only breed from the well pigmented dogs. I think that Koos has followed in Hahn's footstepts.

Hahn commented on the show line breeders who just need a SchH 1 to breed, and at age 2 can be mated to, thereby increasing the "turnover" rapidly, compared to the "greys", i.e. the working lines who he and his colleagues tested apart from the SchH and, when they had reached Europen or nowadays World level were 5-6 years old.

He also considered the dam's quality as important as that of the sire (Mendel).


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

From Gillian's post;
"He also considered the dam's quality as important as that of the sire (Mendel)."

I'm not a breeder but I believe the dam has more influence on the litter then the stud. Her temperment/nerves/etc will naturally transmit to the pups while she's carrying them. Whatever hormones she has will transmit to the pups. I also believe she has a strong influence on them after they are born. If she show aggression/fear/confidence/etc the pups will do the same.
Genetics AND environment!


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## doinglifewithmydog (24 d ago)

Christopher Jones said:


> Not a breeding ad, but one that could be interesting from a "Were the old dogs bettter?" point of view.
> A guy over here has just had a couple of AI breedings to some well known old dogs.
> He has four pups from Natan Busecker Schloss and two puppies from Gento v h Larwin.
> It will be interesting to see how the pups compare to the newer dogs.


I was wondering if you had any contact info for the breeder you mentioned above.


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