# neutering a working rottweiler



## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

I have a year and a half 130 pound Rott. who came from a very good bloodline. My parents want him neutered because he lives with them. If we do this will this effect his energy level, or his protective nature? He is extremely active now and extremely entergetic, and I don't want him to lose this.

Thank you


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

If a dog has it, he has it. His hangy downs, in my experience aren't going to change that. Having said that however, I'd still question why. 

DFrost


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

the Rott is super strong and super energetic. My parents are older and beleive neutering will make him more relaxed and calm.

Thank you for your comments


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Neutering can have an effect on certain medical issues - positive for some, negative for others.

It MAY reduce tendencies to roam and territorial aggression in males.

If your parents are having this done in the hope that it will make him more relaxed and calm, you should advise them that it probably will not...


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Unless this dog is some giant in height out of the standard he is at least 30 pounds over weight trim him down he will certainly easier to live with. 
My Schutzhund III Rotty at working weight was 93 pounds and he was less than a inch below the standard in height. Your asking for a ton of health problems with a dog that fat. Neutering him wont make him easier to live with trimming him down will though.


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

The rott is by NO means overweight, just very tall and muscular. He is extremely active and extremely powerful. NO problems with being overweight though.

Thank you for your comments. Greg


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Greg Davidson said:


> I have a year and a half 130 pound Rott. who came from a very good bloodline. My parents want him neutered because he lives with them. If we do this will this effect his energy level, or his protective nature? He is extremely active now and extremely entergetic, and I don't want him to lose this.
> 
> Thank you


Greg not busting dude, but a "working" Rottie weighing 130 pounds is too much. A working dog should weigh about 85+/- pounds. Second point, neutering only takes away the man parts, it has NOTHING to do with his ability to work. The swinging gear doesn't make him protective, genetics does that. Neutering *will add* weight on a dog. You mentioned bloodlines. Is it show lines, American lines? I don't know of many German working lines where the dog is that big. If it works, what kind of endurance does it have?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Greg Davidson said:


> The rott is by NO means overweight, just very tall and muscular. He is extremely active and extremely powerful. NO problems with being overweight though.
> 
> Thank you for your comments. Greg


Unless your parents are road working him 2 hrs. a day and he is on steroids he is over 30 lbs over weight I have be around and owned trained and titled and showed. I seen a "tons" of fat dogs in and out of the ring. 
This is good advice take it or not.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

For the sake of fairness, post a picture. Unless he is a *giant* Rottweiler and from American lines, the working aspect is killing me. I certified as a Schutzhund decoy on a Bouvier des Flandres in 2000. Kai was a giant by the Bouvier standard, he was also a KNPV met lof dog. BIG BODY and all go! In fairness, it might be possible...might.:-o Post the pics!


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

I should take and post a picture of our Rott. to let the forum see what type condition Scout is in. When I say working, I mainly mean guarding, sorry for not making that clearer from the get go. Right now my brother has been taking him on day, to half day hiking trips, 6-12 miles 2, or 3 times a week. When I say he has excellent endurance, he is able to run/walk/jump, hills, cliffs, water etc. and is never exhausted afterwards. He has absolutely NO excessive body fat, but very muscular. The main reason I am questioning the neutering is that I don't want him to lose his energy or drive. As of now he will not let strangers near my family or house, but is kind and playful to us the family. His grandfather and mother are German, although I cannot remember here in my office of what name, although I do have documentation. I just don't want to do something we will regret by getting him neutered. My mother is getting sick and the Rott is very active and always wants to play. This was a suggestion from my parents to maybe calm him a bit. 

Thank you for taking time to read this, and giving your opinions. Greg


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Greg is he an inside or outside dog? Neutering is not going to change his basic nature; unless you are doing the operation yourself and he is awake! He then might bite the piss out of you and hate you forever!!!:-o


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

Lets change the post to a guard/family Rott. rather than working Rott. I will post a pic as soon as I can get one from home to download. Our Rott. is an outside dog with about 6 fenced acres to himself. We let him inside maybe an hour a day to visit and play with the family. He is trained to not do anything he shouldn't bathroom wise in the house, and has done well since a puppy. Although he does knock over furniture occasionaly when we play with him indoors. That's our fault, not his.

Thank you for your comments, Greg


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

I have a 85 lb crazy german rottweiler that I personal protection trained. I would never nueter him. From all of my studies nuetering does not chnge the behavior of a dog. My sister has a minature pincher that was nuetered when he was a puppy before he learned to hold his leg up. Gues what he is a little terror, he humps, holds his leg up and marks every where. It seems like the problem may be that your parents are somewhat uneasy with this dog (perhaps a little scared). It is not a good idea for your parents to be in control over such a dominant breed. A good rottie will test and retest for dominance even if the behavior is slight. 

It takes a strong handler for a rottie, they are not for the average lab owner. You should look for other means for your dog. I not sure why the dog needs to live with your parents or whether this is a permanent solution. If it is suppose to be a permanent residence and you no longer can care for the do, try to adopt the dog out to workign home. Of course a true working sport competitor will want to test the dog. He is rather large for a working rottie. 100 - 115 tops should be his working weight but if he is a musular tall boy then perhaps his weight will not matter.


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

See this link...http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

It provides some informative informaiton about the effects oof nuetering you dog...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have neutered many many dogs. From the sound of it, I really doubt that the energy level is going to go down. My experience with this is that dogs that are not socialized and live in the backyard might straighten up depending on their sensitivity level. Most dogs do not change, other than they have no balls afterwards.


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

Being in Europe, I've seen some big boned German Show and Working Rotts.
We ain't got anything over 110lb, mine is 27 1/2 inches at the shoulder, going back to Jenecks Wotan (Big Lump) and 90lbs in fighting condition, and I think he is too slow for anything other than a bit of PP work.

130lbs is St Bernard terrority.

Check your scales Greg, your clearly a good bloke which cheap scales.

Mark (and don't neuter)


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

When the problem is excess energy, the answer is exercise...... NOT surgery. 

There are valid reasons to spay/nueter, excess energy is not one of them.

Get off the 'puter & leash that big boy up. A bicycle is the great equalizer, hit the road. 

Best of luck with your Rotty.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I wouldn't neuter.

And I agree, that's a big dog you have, help him shed some pounds. My male rottie is 77.4lbs and quick as a whip.


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

I added a photo of our Rott. " Scout ". This is from a hiking trip a couple of weeks ago. It is hard to compare him to any of the trees or bushes around, but this is all I could attach in the JPEG pic. I stand corrected on the weight, his most recent weigh in was 114 lbs. As you can see there is no excess body fat, and he is able to jump a 3 foot incline from a stand still. I just don't want him to lose any of his potential if we neutered him.

Thank you for your comments, Greg


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

Here is another of the same pictures at a distance. I am looking for my Rott's Documentation today. I do remember his grandfather was an import from Germany though. I will do my best to dig up the docs. to see what the name of the bloodline is. As you can see though he is mainly muscle.

Thank you for your comments again, Greg


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

he looks big and tall but not fat. nice.

As of last Saturday at 16mo my dog is 24.6" at the withers 77.4lbs. I don't think he will grow much more but might gain another 10-15lbs over the next 18 months.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Greg Davidson said:


> I added a photo of our Rott. " Scout ". This is from a hiking trip a couple of weeks ago. It is hard to compare him to any of the trees or bushes around, but this is all I could attach in the JPEG pic. I stand corrected on the weight, his most recent weigh in was 114 lbs. As you can see there is no excess body fat, and he is able to jump a 3 foot incline from a stand still. I just don't want him to lose any of his potential if we neutered him.
> 
> Thank you for your comments, Greg


Well he doesn't look fat he doesn't look 114 lbs. ether he just must be a whopper


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

Greg,

You dog is definitely not fat. I thought you said he weighed 130lbs. Maybe I misread that. If he is 27 invhes at the withers then 114 lbs is a decent weight for a big boned dog and within the standards for a rottie. My boy is at the bottom ont he standards at 24 inches at the withers and 85 lbs. I have a Cane Corso with big bones that is 27 inches at the withers and weighs 115 lbs. He is small by most corso owners but I like to keep him slim around 110 - 115 lbs. 

I would be against nuetering a working rottie unless he got sick and the vet required him to be nuetered to save his life.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

sorry to interrupt this thread... Mari, how old is your dog? I have a small one too. I like them small!


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> sorry to interrupt this thread... Mari, how old is your dog? I have a small one too. I like them small!


 
Chris,

My boy is 5 years old and a fireball. He loves to run (sometimes up to 6 miles a day) and jump in the water. he hates to swim but loves water....go figure. He can swim but quickly moves to areas where he can feel ground beneath his feet. I posted some pictures of him under the title Barnabus Maximus (in the photos section).


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

Mari my Rott. is the same way with water. Exactly the same. Just thought that is ironic. you can tell in the pic. of him he likes water, but doesn't swim good....I wonder why that is? My former rott was the same.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I've had four Rotties, 3 females and 1 male. All of the females loved to swim. My male will swim if he has to, he even dock jumps but he's just not into swimming. We have months of 110F heat and he won't jump into the pool.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Just to add, even if you have your dog neutered, there is no reason for a dog/bitch to put on weight. If you have to reduce the food intake or up the exercise then that is easily done IMO.

This is my neutered bitch - not fat, although not in peak muscle condition in this picture due to issues with her CCL:


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

Well for all who have contributed to this post. I went to my parent's house last week and the Dog was gone. When I asked where he was they told me he had gone to the vet. So my parents went ahead and had our Rottweiler neutered. We brought him home the next day, and he was very nervous and slow moving. The weekend has past and he is back to his old self for now. He has been running and jumping again and full of energy. I just hope this energy level stays where it is at and he maintains his happy go-lucky attitude. My brother and I were very down and depressed over the weekend because he had the operation, but hopefully he will be the same as before. 

Thanks again to everyone who participated in this thread. Greg


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Ya know, I think that is the first time I've ever seen a Rott with a tail. ha ha. Just kind of surprised. 

DFrost


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

FYI the Rott in the above pic. is of another member's Rott. My Rott has his tail docked.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Greg Davidson said:


> Well for all who have contributed to this post. I went to my parent's house last week and the Dog was gone. When I asked where he was they told me he had gone to the vet. So my parents went ahead and had our Rottweiler neutered. We brought him home the next day, and he was very nervous and slow moving. The weekend has past and he is back to his old self for now. He has been running and jumping again and full of energy. I just hope this energy level stays where it is at and he maintains his happy go-lucky attitude. My brother and I were very down and depressed over the weekend because he had the operation, but hopefully he will be the same as before.
> 
> Thanks again to everyone who participated in this thread. Greg


Too bad.

There is no reason for his temperament or energy levels to change. Keep him lean, work him often, build drive....


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Ya know, I think that is the first time I've ever seen a Rott with a tail. ha ha. Just kind of surprised.
> 
> DFrost


Sorry about that, David. I'll photoshop any future pictures - don't want you having nightmares... 

FYI, most European countries have banned tail docking, so we are now seeing a lot more Rotts, Dobes, Boxers etc with tails.


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

As most of you remember my Rott. was neutered by my parents unknowing to me or my brother.

He has since lost around 10 lbs of lean muscle mass.

Our only option now seems to be testosterone replacement therapy. Cost is not a factor as the one who had the surgery done will be paying for the bill. So the vet. will wind up making lots of money from us it looks like.

How should we confront the vet. in order to get this therapy started.?

100% serious on this issue.

Thank you for your help. Greg


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

honestly, I would get a new dog. If you weren't around enough to stop the dog from getting fixed then he probably wasn't worked that often either. And it mostly likely an issue of your dog not having what it takes to work. Good rotts are hard to find.

I could be wrong too so apologies in advance.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Greg Davidson said:


> Lets change the post to a guard/family Rott. rather than working Rott. I will post a pic as soon as I can get one from home to download. Our Rott. is an outside dog with about 6 fenced acres to himself. We let him inside maybe an hour a day to visit and play with the family. He is trained to not do anything he shouldn't bathroom wise in the house, and has done well since a puppy. Although he does knock over furniture occasionaly when we play with him indoors. That's our fault, not his.
> 
> Thank you for your comments, Greg


I went back and read the whole thread again. Why bother with Testosterone Therapy? Just let the dog be. The chances are better that he doesn't have the nerve to be a proper estate guardian unless it's a nerve bag but then you don't want that either...

Rotties are generally lazy dogs but I'm sure he'll bark is somebody comes along. That should allow for enough time for you to gear up in your tactical outfit and pump a few AR15 .223 Mags into whomever is trying siphon your gas tanks. And when you're shooting don't forget to yell "Take THAT suckers.... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...And that...and THAT." Yep, there ain't no dog on the planet that will match up to a crazed lunatic with a machine gun.

Do you need anything more?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

yeah, i guess i don't get the deal. if you own the dog, why's he at your parent's? and, unless he has irreplaceable bloodlines, it won't hurt him a bit to be nuetered. he won't get fat unless you (or your parents)let him. i've ALWAYS had spayed/nuetered dogs and not ONE was EVER fat. not ONE. (well, til i got Gracie--but she won't be for long!) 

and the dogs that had drive had it, those that didn't, didn't. 

like chris said-let it be, work the dog. have FUN with him!!!


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks for the comments. My Rott was very muscular and now he is really slim. I think that is why we are upset , that he has lost his muscular build.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Greg Davidson said:


> Thanks for the comments. My Rott was very muscular and now he is really slim. I think that is why we are upset , that he has lost his muscular build.


Well, exercise him. Hill running and swimming everyday will get him ripped in no time.

You said he's from great bloodlines? Which ones?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Greg, unless there's actually something physiologically wrong with him, there should be no reason you can't keep a neutered male in good shape and train him if he's got it without testosterone replacement. What diet is he on? 

My 3 year old male was neutered at 4 months and he runs off leash for about an hour on the trails 4-5 days a week at least, sometimes more. He can put a lot of other intact males to shame for muscling. Heck, even my spayed female can. And he can bark at people from the door just fine. Then again, he also lifts his leg to pee too. Maybe he had a hidden one stuck up there somewhere. :lol: Here's my boy at 2.5 years:










Three years:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

That must be one of those American Rotts. Thanks for sharing Maren


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

Our rott is doing fine running and very entergetic. Just really slim now as opposed to how he was.

has anyone here ever thought of or dealt with testosterone replacement, just out of curiousity.

Thank you for your comments everyone. Greg


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i know a male human who HAS to have testosterone replacement therapy that costs him $462/month. does that help?


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Just to add in my thoughts...

If for some reason I boarded my any of my working line dogs with my parents (which, knowing my parents, would not be likely) and my parents spayed/neutered MY dog without my permission, I would be majorly pissed off, and they would be buying me another dog. I wouldn't bother with testosterone therapy, but depending on which dog, they may be left dealing with him/her...

I don't think hormone therapy is worthwhile. The deed is done, deal with the consequences, accept and move forward, or start over with another dog. 

I am sorry this happened...:sad:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Anna Kasho said:


> Just to add in my thoughts...
> 
> If for some reason I boarded my any of my working line dogs with my parents (which, knowing my parents, would not be likely) and my parents spayed/neutered MY dog without my permission, I would be majorly pissed off, and they would be buying me another dog. I wouldn't bother with testosterone therapy, but depending on which dog, they may be left dealing with him/her...
> 
> ...



Frankly, I don't think were getting the full story from the OP. Seems he did know what the plans were for the dog. Seems it was more the parents dogs because OP couldn't care for him at the time.

I dunno, it's just a dog Greg, I'm sure you didn't pay a whole lot for him for get a new one that can work or better yet just train this one. He's better off being neutered anyway. It's not like you could breed him.


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

I have to agree that altering a dog should have nothing to do with temperament or muscle tone This is my bitch altered at 2 going on three due to Hip Dysplasia.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/badkittyamy/Animals/Dogs/IMG_6131.jpg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y2T59_LDWz4


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Testosterone replacement for a dog? what the hell are people thinking Most dogs are altered, and probably should be if they not being bred. There are alot of altered dogs, that have more muscle tone than unaltered ones. It sounds like you care more about the looks, than how the dog is trained to work. :-\"


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

todd pavlus said:


> Testosterone replacement for a dog? what the hell are people thinking Most dogs are altered, and probably should be if they not being bred. There are alot of altered dogs, that have more muscle tone than unaltered ones. It sounds like you care more about the looks, than how the dog is trained to work. :-\"


There are major differences of opinion on altering working dogs, Todd, although I'm with you on shelter dogs, mixed breeds, etc.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

I agree with you Connie, I should have made it more clear. My dog is not altered either, but he is only 9 months old, and beginning shutzhund.#-o


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

Our Rott is a family pet and rotates between staying with different members of our Family. My father recently retired form his job and has been running around the house looking for things to do. One day while the Rott was at our parents house my brother came to visit and the parents said he was staying overnight at the vet. When we asked why they said he was getting neutered. In other words it was a spur of the moment thing, because our father had too much extra time on his hands, and just fugured he'd do something stupid, and now here we are. We have in the vet's file when our Rott first went that he was NOT going to neutered . That's the story.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Greg Davidson said:


> Our Rott is a family pet and rotates between staying with different members of our Family.



This is not a dog you wanted to leave intact in order to foster his protective nature (first post)?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

so if he's not YOUR personal dog then what is the issue? You still haven't which lines your dog is from. Did you get him from an ad in the paper?


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

From the story it sounds the only work he was doing was guarding the yard anyway, no training or anything to do "work"


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Greg Davidson said:


> Our Rott is a family pet and rotates between staying with different members of our Family. My father recently retired form his job and has been running around the house looking for things to do. One day while the Rott was at our parents house my brother came to visit and the parents said he was staying overnight at the vet. When we asked why they said he was getting neutered. In other words it was a spur of the moment thing, because our father had too much extra time on his hands, and just fugured he'd do something stupid, and now here we are. We have in the vet's file when our Rott first went that he was NOT going to neutered . That's the story.


IMO, I don't want to be rude. It sounds like you were not prepared to have a dog since it has been living with different members of your family. It seems like you have someone to watch the dog for you and your responsibility was shifted on somebody else. 

If you are upset about having your rottie neutered, why can't you keep him under your roof permanently? It is understandable if dog is going to stay with your relatives for temporary, but you haven't say anything when you are going to get him back. It sounds like you are dumping your dog on somebody to watch because you are busy with other things. :-k


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## Kris Dow (Jun 15, 2008)

Greg Davidson said:


> Our Rott is a family pet and rotates between staying with different members of our Family. My father recently retired form his job and has been running around the house looking for things to do. One day while the Rott was at our parents house my brother came to visit and the parents said he was staying overnight at the vet. When we asked why they said he was getting neutered. In other words it was a spur of the moment thing, because our father had too much extra time on his hands, and just fugured he'd do something stupid, and now here we are. We have in the vet's file when our Rott first went that he was NOT going to neutered . That's the story.


I really don't get why this is a big deal, and certainly not to the level of putting him on some kind of medication (hormone replacement) which potentially introduces new health risks and complications, depending on how it's administered.

Admittedly, I am not an experienced sport dog handler, but from what I've been reading bouncing around from person to person as it sounds like this dog does is not going to make for a great background for the dog to be competitive anyway, since it will make it difficult for the dog to get consistent handling and training. Further, it doesn't seem like being neutered makes a big difference for your average everyday pet dog, even one expected to be something of a guard dog on occasion. (My cocker spaniel has been fixed since she was a puppy, and she still kicks up a heck of a fuss at strange noises.)

I can understand being frustrated by what sounds like communication difficulties within the family, where one person made a choice for the dog that others who also feel some ownership of the dog wouldn't have gone along with given the choice, but I think that's inherently a family issue and the dog should be left out of it. Enjoy him as he is- he's probably still a fantastic dog and well up to what's reasonable to expect from a family pet.


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## Greg Davidson (Mar 28, 2008)

We are going to try to start over with another Rott from the same breeder. We are selling this two year old for $300.00 if you have a good home, and could use this friendly pet. Please call 662 -844-9791. Thanks


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Hopefully the new rott will be staying with you, and then you won't have to worry it being neutered. I just don't understand this post. If the dog is not going to be a sport/working dog, it should probably be neutered anyway. Did you decide to get another dog just because the old one got neutered:-k


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## Jeannie Helton (Aug 10, 2008)

Why??  Reality is you don't have to answer or justify your choices to anyone here. 

I was just curious.


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