# And how many get it right?



## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Seeing as this anti-pitbull law here seems to be going right up s*** creek with people screaming at every Cane Corso etc that its a pitbull I thought this would be a good test.

Pits are illegal here in Holland even with pedigree papers but the RAD (literal translation =Regulations Agressive Animals) here are confiscating X Staffies and X anything that resembles anything similar and the dog and owners have to wait sometimes months on end untill someone has judged the dog to see if it must be destroyed or not. The charachter of the dog doesnt seem to be of any importance , just how it looks!!!

How many people can really pick out a pitbull?
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i got it right on the second try--but i would guess that 99% of the ppl in the US wouldn't have; just like if you call some here randomly, they can't tell you who's running in the presidential primaries (i love glen beck/rush limbaugh, i don't care what anyone says).


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Took me 3 tries On a positive note though: I do know who is running for office


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

I sure would love to see these people who are judging whether these dogs are to be destroyed or not do this test. Tell the truth Im afraid that most would get it wrong.

Here in Holland at the moment there has been a lot of disscusion about a dog called Hellas. Hellas is an Am Staff without pedigree papers and is 10 yrs old! The dog has been confiscated for more than 4 mths and the owners were frantic waiting for the judgement of their pet would be euthanised or not.

The judgement over Hellas was put off so many times its incredible! Hellas was tested (MAG test. Literal translation =Society Acceptable test) which is a behaviour test to see if it was "responsible" at again 10 yrs of age to put the dog back into Society

this is a video of the test with Hella
*http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-8403934558970433079&q=MAG-Test+Hellas&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0*

and still after seeing this the discision was postponed.

Im glad to say after more than 4 mths Hella is finally home with the owners. 

Im sorry to say but this pitbull law here stinks! Most are judged on just what they look like and euthanised. Long live goverment law!:-&


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Hil Harrison said:


> Im sorry to say but this pitbull law here stinks! Most are judged on just what they look like and euthanised. Long live goverment law!:-&


Ditto here in the UK. Guess what..... it's made no difference to dog bite statistics :roll:


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Ian Forbes said:


> Ditto here in the UK. Guess what..... it's made no difference to dog bite statistics :roll:


Yeah Ian what a surprise eh.;-) The nr of golden retrievers that have been put down in the last 6 yrs here that have bitten people and children. One bit me some years back and bit right through the nail and teared my hand up pretty bad. The dog was playing and out of nowhere just flipped! Dont see any laws on goldens without pedigree:x let alone having them do a test.

I really hate this biased attitude towards Staffies, pits and anything resembling them. Sure there can be some agressive staffies and pits but its the same for all breeds, but NOT just these dogs!


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Hil Harrison said:


> *Pits are illegal here in Holland even with pedigree papers but the RAD (literal translation =Regulations Agressive Animals) here are confiscating X Staffies and X anything that resembles anything similar and the dog and owners have to wait sometimes months on end untill someone has judged the dog to see if it must be destroyed or not. The charachter of the dog doesnt seem to be of any importance , just how it looks!!!*


I'm curious, how come the law(s) don't apply to PitxMal/PitxDutchie crosses that law enforcement have/use? Most of the time they look close enough to a bull breed that you'd think they'd be confiscated too.



Andy.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Andy Andrews said:


> I'm curious, how come the law(s) don't apply to PitxMal/PitxDutchie crosses that law enforcement have/use? Most of the time they look close enough to a bull breed that you'd think they'd be confiscated too.
> 
> Andy.


Cant recall having heard any mentioned but as far as I know it wouldnt make any difference. A xstaf or xpit I assume would be confiscated whoever the handler/owner was. If there are X staff or x pit law inforcement dogs they just dont look enough like staffs or pits to get them taken off the streets. Interesting I will go see what I can find.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Been looking for a while now but nope Andy nothing to be found.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

What are you looking for exactly? Evidence of those crosses or K-9 seizures?




Andy.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Andy Andrews said:


> I'm curious, how come the law(s) don't apply to PitxMal/PitxDutchie crosses that law enforcement have/use? Most of the time they look close enough to a bull breed that you'd think they'd be confiscated too.
> 
> 
> 
> Andy.


I mean I couldnt find any that of have been confiscated from law enforcement officers or any that come close by looking at them. Well at least here in Holland. I guess the x mal and x dutchies here dont look enough like bulls . While I was reading and searching.......I found a piece about a lady who not long ago had 4 x staffs that were good loving family pets confiscated, and all 4 were euthanised. God I cant imagine losing 4 dogs at once. It must have been hell  2 of her dogs she thought had pedigree papers but the person who sold her the dogs had forged the papers. 4 dogs? its more than sad!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

all i can say is that dog is lucky he's so muscular or he would've worn himself out wagging that tail! OBVIOUSLY a dangerously aggressive dog--JK, JK!!!! i loved what he did with the umbrella, thought he might lift his leg on it there for a second 

and they kept him for FOUR MONTHS???? what, thought he might suddenly change his ways? that is SO stupid. i'm glad he's back home-he just looks like a happy (well-adjusted) boy.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

BSL serves one purpose, and one purpose only! Political aholes can get their names in the paper.
BTW! I got the right dog on the first try. My old neighborhood was overrun with pits.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

OK got it right, but I have a long history with pits.

Pit mal crosses in law enforcement????? Where??


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Jeff, 

The Dutch have been known to cross APBT into their Mals/Dutchies, and I have it on good authority that some have made it into LE there. 



Andy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I was hoping for specifics, as everyone I have talked to has said that it would be stupid to put a lesser working dog in the mix.


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## Jessica Fry (Jan 4, 2007)

Andy Andrews said:


> Jeff,
> 
> The Dutch have been known to cross APBT into their Mals/Dutchies, and I have it on good authority that some have made it into LE there.
> 
> ...


Hmmm... Like Hil, I'm racking my brain here trying to think of an example... No luck unfortunately.

The only Mal. in KNPV that seemed to have some 'bull blood' in him (which could have been AmStaff, PBT, or something else) I ever knew was owned by some weirdo lawyer. Dog was a disaster (he was at our club for awhile), but that was more the lawyers fault than the dog's. You could tell the dog had 'bull' blood by his wider head and funny looking tail. (well, it would have been a normal tail if it had been attached to an AmStaff, but it looked funny on a Mal body)

But like I said, I can't think of a LE example. What's your source Andy?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Andy Andrews said:


> Jeff,
> 
> The Dutch have been known to cross APBT into their Mals/Dutchies, and I have it on good authority that some have made it into LE there.
> 
> ...


Obviously the Dutch have their own urban legends as we do here.  ;-)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Silly pit people trying to legitamize their dogs


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Jessica Fry said:


> *But like I said, I can't think of a LE example. What's your source Andy?*


A few years ago a friend of mine was kind enough to share some photos with me of a PitxDutchie he had from Holland that was in LE. Kind of weird looking, but he said the dog was pretty good. 

Since that time I've seen two examples of PitxMal crosses, though I believe they were schutzhund dogs, not LE. I can't be sure though, you'd have to ask Chris Duhon. I believe he's worked the dogs I'm talking about.



Andy.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> *Obviously the Dutch have their own urban legends as we do here.  ;-)*


Don't be shy, Bob. Go on and call me a liar if ya want to! I'll just hide behind my noob badge and exclaim that since I'm not Jeff, I don't know everything *yet*.  ;-) 



Andy.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> *Silly pit people trying to legitamize their dogs      *


Too late, Jeff, the dogs have accomplished that feat all by themselves, DESPITE our best efforts to ruin them. It's us who need to convince others that we're legit! ;-) 



Andy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Don't be shy, Bob. Go on and call me a liar if ya want to! I'll just hide behind my noob badge and exclaim that since I'm not Jeff, I don't know everything *yet*. :razz: :wink: 

Of course, maybe it is because when I do not have a clue what someone is talking about, I do not respond with "hearsay" LOL      

Only way a pitxMal is gonna be worth a damn, is if the pit's mental side is all recessive.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> *Of course, maybe it is because when I do not have a clue what someone is talking about, I do not respond with "hearsay" LOL     *


So, what, are we supposed to refer to you as Jeff, Your Honor now?? 'Cause, if this ain't a court of law, hearsay is perfectly submissable!! ;-) :lol: 



Jeff Oehlson said:


> *Only way a pitxMal is gonna be worth a damn, is if the pit's mental side is all recessive.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:*


Genius is always misunderstood by the mentally inept.  


Okay, I'm done baiting Jeff for one evening. Have your fun. 



Andy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

In todays society it is just a matter of time before the pit is outlawed everywhere. Today, you are guilty until proven innocent, and people just go along way too easily for my tastes.

I cannot tell you how many people I know that just quote a source, and believe it completely without thinking it through, or understanding it. People are constantly lowering the bar. Good example is just how many people say that their children are "gifted". What a croc. You see this with dog people as well. Too many times I have seen someones dog who according to their description ought to be "all that" and the dog is roughly average at best.

I do love the pitbull, the last of the true warrior dogs out there, but I do not see them being around in 50 years. Hopefully I am wrong, but there are too many signs that I am not.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Andy Andrews said:


> Don't be shy, Bob. Go on and call me a liar if ya want to! I'll just hide behind my noob badge and exclaim that since I'm not Jeff, I don't know everything *yet*.  ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Andy.


 :lol: No calls here. Just having fun. For the record, I love Pits. I've had numerous family members that have owned them. I just don't want the resposibility of owning one now days. Where I lived till receintly was a haven for gangbangers, Pits and all the bad press that went along with both. 
Still no GSD though!


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## Cadence Nakashima (Oct 6, 2007)

First try. 

Owning a APBT in a "pit type dog" banned province, I guess I'm sort of required to be able to. Here the ban invovles American Pitbull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers. On another board a point was brought up that an APBT was actually "smuggled" OUT of Canada into the US to work as a drug sniffing dog in Washington.... How hypocrtical is that? A breed that's a menace to society working FOR the Government for the good of society?!?!? Just mind boggling I'll tell you. I know my little guy could be trained to do almost anything because of his intense prey drive. Bring out that frisbee, he'll not only jump through a flaming hoop, but he'll step it up and light it aflame too! ROFL!

With all of the hubbub when they were trying to get the ban changed to a dangerous law act, I had no choice but to educate myself so I could educate others when my ferocicious muzzled pitbull was anywhere in the public eye.

I've heard it all, they have locking jaws, they have the PSI of a Great White, their brains get too big for their skulls and they go crazy...

All of which are the most ridiculous myths. I'll tell you, my Hades is a vicious, shark biting, neurotic have-to-use-a-tire-iron-to-pry-him-off-the-tug-toy-everytime American Pitbull Terrier.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I got it right on the first try, but probably I'm late to this party & who the hell remembers the question anyway !!!!!!!


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