# Two working dogs in the house



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Moved from http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f8/support-police-k9-bushido-37969/index2.html#post575969




rick smith said:


> Cornell
> re this statement :
> "My dept. canines are assigned to live with their handlers so the only change for Bushido is he is now inside the house and he watches me drive off with the new k-9 and he's pissed."
> 
> ...


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

Having more than one working dog in a household would depend entirely on the dogs... Some will be best buds straight off, and others will *always* try to kill each other at any opportunity... Some are happy to be managed and separated and share the handler's time, others will make life a major misery for everyone around them if they can't be the only dog... Because just like humans every dog is different......


I personally currently have 4 protection trained civilian patrol dogs at home... It's a long story and I never want this many dogs again once current pack members pass on...

They are all mals, all male, and the older 3 are half brothers... The youngest is the son of the eldest...

The pup (now 2yo, but he's still my puppy), is an obnoxious jerk, but he is not outright nasty or aggressive with any of the others... I could quite safely leave him unattended with with the two middle boys but choose not to as they don't deserve the harrassment... The two middle boys are best buddies... And my old boy whilst being similar in nature to the pup will almost always escalate what should have been a short snark match or otherwise harmless scuffle into a serious fight and cause damage, often requiring a vet visit... I have learnt the hard way it is just easier for everyone to keep him separated entirely from the others...

That being said I can walk all 4 of them on leash together quite happily with no arguments.... They all sleep crated in the same room and can see each other but know they have their own space...

So it is entirely possible to have more than one working dog in a household if the dogs are happy to allow it... If not then sometimes it doesn't matter what you do or how much effort you make they will never truly get along...

And there is a big difference between enforced obedience ("you WILL leave the other dog alone") in the presence of a handler, and the dogs actually truly getting along or at least simply agreeing to ignore each other when not under some form of handler control... Doesn't matter how well they ignore each other when you're around, if they truly don't like each other then the midden is going to meet the windmill one day when you're not around.....


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Jay, of course all dogs are different and i'm assuming you don't try and train them all at the same time, etc

re this : "If not then sometimes it doesn't matter what you do or how much effort you make they will never truly get along..."
- can you elaborate on what you did and at what point you decided to stop trying and decided that separation was best ?
- and i'm not talking about forced OB, but actually i don't understand what you mean by the term

i'm more interested in learning about training that works and doesn't work than a history of each individual dog and why they can't interact 
- the part about being able to walk them together is interesting

fwiw, my house dog HATES every new dog that shows up for boarding and will tear into them if he could. it takes anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks before they will tolerate each other without having to keep them separated. and yes, it all depends on the dogs. but the exceptions i can count on one hand. i have worked out a very specific way of doing this and it's the same routine for any new dog that will be boarded for more than a couple days.
- that'w why i'm always interested to hear about other's successes and failures

- others may disagree, but i always think a pack of dogs has to abide by the house rules the owner sets up, and if they won't , it's more of an owner/handler problem than a dog problem
- if i had a pack that would fight when i wasn't around and result in vet bills, one or some would have to go; no ifs ands or buts


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

and i'm not saying all have to love each other and be best buds. tolerance without bloodshed is my only goal


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

I have 4 working dogs in the house... Two males and two females. Plus another (non-working) GSD that has been my wife's "pet" for a number of years. 

Two are my primary PPD's plus I have a third dog (15 months now) that I've been training so there will be continuity down the road when either of my older dogs retire or pass on. My wife also decided she wanted a PPD so she took on a pup last year and has been training and rolling with that dog.

The dogs all live under the same roof. They train both individually and together... Sometimes in pairs, sometimes all at once. They are rarely put in crates... Normally they have access to the entire house (what good is a protection dog if it's locked inside a crate)?

When I go out I usually take two dogs with me... Leave one behind in the house for security... My wife takes her new dog when she rolls, leaving her older GSD at home... So this means we have two female GSD's alone in the house (one fully bite trained and the other has had some bite training but came from "show lines") and there are no issues.

When I roll I have two to three working dogs in the vehicle... No crates... The dogs work together and don't fight amongst themselves. Doesn't matter if I leave the vehicle with them inside... No issues.

I know there is some tension between my wife's male and my male... The potential is there for a scrap, but we've never allowed it to fester. We control the interaction between those two and make it clear to them that certain behaviours will not be tolerated. We also do repeated Phoenix sessions (obedience and obstacle work) with those two dogs together and in close contact with each other, to reinforce our expectations. My wife's dog joined the inside household about 4 months ago so it's was a slow process to get him accustomed to what was expected and allowed... Plus get the other dogs used to him being there. 

I find it's more a matter of teaching the new dog it's "role" and limits... The existing dogs already know their roles and we just need to remind them if/when they get out of line.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

most of the introducing i did was crate and rotate as i didn't have the luxury to be able to introduce the dogs beforehand... then leashed and muzzled walks together and after quite a few walks then supervised free time in the yard after they'd been worn out on a walk, without muzzles... time was gradually built up until i felt comfortable turning them out in the yard together... but then i've never had a dog that's been outright aggro towards the others, and i wouldn't keep one that was... 

the big fights i have had have been very quick to escalate beginning from something relatively minor and they've all involved the old dog... the first fight was when they were running about in a dog park together (we had the place to ourselves, no other dogs but mine) and the old boy had picked up a stick... he'd dropped it and was mucking about with it on the ground when the younger of the two middle dogs ran up to him and the old boy had a snark to say keep away from my stick, but the older middle dog had been close by and at the snark from the old boy decided for whatever reason that he was the fun police and told the old boy off, and promptly found himself upside down with the old boy's jaws clamped firmly around a thigh... i had to choke him off... large hole requiring surgery in the younger dog... it went from stick dropping to choking in a matter of seconds... i kept those two separate from then on...

younger 3 would run together in the yard, old boy would go in the large pen... i'd usually let the younger 3 out first as one of them would scream the house down if i took the old boy out first... so i'd have them out for long enough for them to have a drink and a piss and then i'd put away the one that had fought with the old boy and i'd let him out and put him in his pen... he'd never given a shit about the two others before and i got slack and let him run down the stairs on his own without holding his collar... one day the youngest was in the pen having a sniff around as the gate is almost always open if the old boy is not in it... before i'd even managed to make it all the way down the steps the two had sniffed, postured, the old boy had tried to hump the young dog and then it was on... no e-vet visit this time but the young dog got some good punctures and tears in his front legs and the old boy's face got quite messed up... that was when i decided that he could just stay separate from all the others unless he was muzzled, because the silly old shit lives for a fight and will go from zero to tearing the shit out of something at the drop of a hat... 

the others will snark and scuffle and make lots of noise and shake mouthfuls of scruff and give each other the odd scratch or small puncture, the old boy wants to get the other dog on their back and dominate the crap out of them, and will do a LOT of damage in the process >_<




from my observing of others' experiences with dogs that want to kill each other, no matter how well they might be able to control the dogs while they are there, leaving them together unsupervised eventually results in lots of frigging tears - could be weeks or months later, and one pair even lasted close to 2yrs, despite me saying the whole time they needed to make separate yards - and then one day the owner came home to a dead dog... 

leaving two dogs who are in any way uneasy with each other alone unsupervised is just asking for problems, IMO...


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Our intro process was very similar to Jay's.

When I got my second PPD my first PPD had been with me about a year and was about two years old. 

The second dog arrived and initially was crated at night but at all other times was worked next to my main dog... Only separated when I was not present to control and enforce obedience. When left alone in vehicle the new dog was crated. These two dogs were not allowed "free time" together, only separated.

I would say that it was probably two to three months before those two were allowed to run "free" together and their initial interactions were a bit scary... Very vocal and a lot of teeth and rolling and dominance behaviours. At the beginning I would stop them as soon as those behaviours started... But continue to allow them to run together as long as they "controlled" the aggression levels... As soon as it ramped up I would show displeasure and stop it.

Over time (months) they learned to limit their behaviours and I extended their free time together. Now (over two years later) those two dogs are often left in a field together for an hour or more... Sometimes they roll around and do a lot of back and forth play fighting (for lack of a better description), lots of teeth, snarling, throat biting, etc. but never any damage and all very much controlled. If I call them they stop instantly and recall.

They never do this when working... Only when told "free". They are often left together in vehicles unattended and in the house unattended... Never had an issue. Work very well together and have never lost focus during bite work sessions, never taken a nip at each other during a tandem bite training session.

I will say this... All of my dogs are very stable around other dogs. They have all been raised that way. They don't "play" with other dogs and have almost zero interaction with other dogs. Their only interaction with dogs outside of our own, is when we do obedience and Phoenix obstacle work with strange dogs.

As other dogs have been brought into the home, they have been introduced the same way. Acceptance is an obedience exercise for the existing dogs and a gradual learning process for the new dog (one new dog at a time).


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Good read about an issue we all have to deal with sooner or later.

- hope Cornell adds his experience and training approach

- any LEOs dealt with more than on psd at home ?

i've always felt dogs are not the best multi-taskers, and agree it is a lot easier to work dogs in close proximity to each other when each is focused on the job in front of them
- but left to their own devices, it's often a different matter 
- one of my main goals when getting two dogs to tolerate each other is to keep them both focused on ME while it is happening, and most of the time that involves me being between them

who was it that was going thru a similar issue awhile back ? Kat maybe ?
curious what resulted

to continue to fix or manage is always the bottom line, but the more the "fix" side gets discussed, the better the chances of success, imo of course


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## Cornell Paterson (Apr 30, 2014)

I agree it depends on the k 9 and the trust the k9 has in their handler. Before Bushido retired I also have two pet GS at home who did not make the cut to be police K9s and I have had all three out tuning around playing in the snow but for the most part we are advised to keep the working K-9 out of the house and segregated from the house pets, the working k-9 has to maintain his Alpha mentality and not become subordinate to any one other than his handler 
That alpha need to always be intact and ready he has to have no doubt he's going to win if sent on an apprehension. Bushido replacement is a 19 month old Dutchy Mali who gets his size from his Dutch side and his looks speed and mental for the Mali side I have yet to bring them together even though they know the other exist


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I've trained and/or trialled with all my dogs over the last years

What on earth is the difference between "Working" and "Family" Dogs?

All need to obey the rules of the house / dog owner.

This isn't a discussion between working and family dogs, or shouldn't be. 

Do you differentiate between working citizens and non-working citizens?


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I've trained and/or trialled with all my dogs over the last years
> 
> What on earth is the difference between "Working" and "Family" Dogs?
> 
> ...


Gillian, I took the OP to be a reference to Working K9's that were bite trained and "civil" minded. Though he originally asked about working PSD's it struck me that a PPD would also fit that personality/mindset so I added my experience, and present similar problems and issues or at least potential for issues.

We have a "family" dog as well... not really bite trained, though we did expose her to some bite work a couple years ago (not her "thing" genetically speaking). He behaviour is very different, when she mixes with our working dogs, than the behaviour of the working dogs when they interact with each other or with her... her character is quite different and her behaviours are different. The working dogs almost treat her as the "stupid sibling" and let a lot of behaviours "slide"... behaviours that if done by another working dog would likely start a scrap. It's actually quite interesting to observe and learn from sometimes.

You asked if we differentiate between a working citizen and a non-working citizen... I think a better way to phrase it would be differentiating between a trained, active LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) and an untrained regular citizen... they have been trained to see things differently, respond differently and think differently than others.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Mark Herzog said:


> Gillian, I took the OP to be a reference to Working K9's that were bite trained and "civil" minded. Though he originally asked about working PSD's it struck me that a PPD would also fit that personality/mindset so I added my experience, and present similar problems and issues or at least potential for issues.
> 
> We have a "family" dog as well... not really bite trained, though we did expose her to some bite work a couple years ago (not her "thing" genetically speaking). He behaviour is very different, when she mixes with our working dogs, than the behaviour of the working dogs when they interact with each other or with her... her character is quite different and her behaviours are different. The working dogs almost treat her as the "stupid sibling" and let a lot of behaviours "slide"... behaviours that if done by another working dog would likely start a scrap. It's actually quite interesting to observe and learn from sometimes.
> 
> You asked if we differentiate between a working citizen and a non-working citizen... *I think a better way to phrase it would be differentiating between a trained, active LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) and an untrained regular citizen... they have been trained to see things differently, respond differently and think differently than others.*



Going to stick my nose in here and say that that dog don't hunt by any means, Mark. 

Regardless of the dog, be it trained or not trained, it should do as told and should not present problems within the family. I have had trained dogs and family pets in the house and it presented slight issues the first few days but it quickly changed since I simply did not allow for any byplay between the dogs. Sure, they would try eachother out but were smart enough to know when to say uncle. 

A dog, be it a working LE dog or a crossbred mutt should do as told, background doesn't matter and training doesn't matter. Inside the house the same rules apply to all dogs and just because one has had training and one hasn't doesn't mean they get to see things differently, they get to do as told and nothing else. To say a trained dog sees things differently is to use a cop out in order to use it as an excuse for the dogs non compliance.


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Cornell Paterson said:


> I agree it depends on the k 9 and the trust the k9 has in their handler. Before Bushido retired I also have two pet GS at home who did not make the cut to be police K9s and I have had all three out tuning around playing in the snow but for the most part we are advised to keep the working K-9 out of the house and segregated from the house pets, the working k-9 has to maintain his Alpha mentality and not become subordinate to any one other than his handler
> *That alpha need to always be intact* and ready he has to have no doubt he's going to win if sent on an apprehension. Bushido replacement is a 19 month old Dutchy Mali who gets his size from his Dutch side and his looks speed and mental for the Mali side I have yet to bring them together even though they know the other exist


Cornell, you mention "be intact". It was my understanding that most departments these days are requiring their K9's to be spayed or neutered as a matter of policy. 

Are Bushido and your new K9 partner intact?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I fail to see the difference in dogs that are kept in the house whether working or pet dogs. Lets face it, neither knows the difference but the owner.

I harboured for two weeks, 3 males and one female:

No. 1 was an IPO 3 male dog
No. 2 a Fila Brasileiro part working / part house dog

No. 3 was the sister of the Fila Brasileiro (no working)
No. 4 was a Malteser.

Obviously my welcoming speech didn't mention that No. 1 was a working dog and No.2 also trialled.....

No. 3 and No. 4 were happy until, towards the end of their stay the Malteser decided to challenge the Fila Brasileiro. He accepted No. 1 (the Briard) but not the FB. Nothing much happened but the owners had arrived to collect their dogs and maybe he didn't want to lose face (his face was smaller than the FB).

I would welcome Forum members who think "canine" and not "working dog" or (Family dog"). This is a matter which, without the laws laid down by the owner, would be laid down by the canines themselves, regardless of their working or non-working Backgrounds.


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Going to stick my nose in here and say that that dog don't hunt by any means, Mark.
> 
> Regardless of the dog, be it trained or not trained, it should do as told and should not present problems within the family. I have had trained dogs and family pets in the house and it presented slight issues the first few days but it quickly changed since I simply did not allow for any byplay between the dogs. Sure, they would try eachother out but were smart enough to know when to say uncle.
> 
> A dog, be it a working LE dog or a crossbred mutt should do as told, background doesn't matter and training doesn't matter. Inside the house the same rules apply to all dogs and just because one has had training and one hasn't doesn't mean they get to see things differently, they get to do as told and nothing else. To say a trained dog sees things differently is to use a cop out in order to use it as an excuse for the dogs non compliance.


Not at all. It simply recognizes that there is usually a huge difference in genetics, personality and behaviours between (as an example) a Police K9 and a family/pet GSD, otherwise why would so many departments and trainers say that only a very small percentage of the dogs they evaluate "make the grade" to go on and be trained and certified as Police K9's, while the others are said to have "washed out". For many trainers the very characteristics that make the dog a good candidate as a police K9 often do NOT make it a good candidate as a pet and that is often further complicated by training that may make the dog less "sociable" and/or more aggressive.

I absolutely agree with you that a dog must "obey the rules" and obey the handler... to me this goes without question. The issue really isn't what the dogs do when they are in the handler's presence and under his/her control. The real issue is what do the dogs do when they are alone and without supervision and free to make their own decisions. 

Some might respond that they simply crate the dogs when they aren't there... and I suppose that is a solution, but not an answer. To me it suggests that they are being created because they can't be trusted to be left alone or left together without supervision. If that's the case then it would suggest the reason is that, if left alone and unsupervised the two dogs would do something that the handler would not want or approve of or allow if the handler was present.

I know a lot of people and a lot of dogs that can't be left alone, unsupervised. In fact, when it comes to working PSD K9's the vast majority that I know are never left unattended with another PSD. If you read Cornell's earlier posts he indicates that his department doesn't even want his "working" PSD to live inside, let alone associate with his retired PSD. That is normal policy from the various departments I know.

Since my dogs must work together, for me they must also live together and since they must work both with and without direct supervision, they must be able to co-exist even when not supervised and even with non-working dogs that live in the household.

I agree that it's an obedience issue but I think it's also a training issue and frankly my experience is that the personality of the working dogs I have is very different from the personality of the "pets" and therefore it's often more than "a few days" as you suggested. As for the "_they would try eachother out but were smart enough to know when to say uncle_" all I can say to that is, the last time I had a working dog and a new "house dog" that "tried each other out" neither one said uncle because they were BOTH type A personalities (as most working dogs I know have been) and when they tangled it was fast and brutal and costly. Taught me a good lesson and helped me to work out the system I use now to introduce a new dog to our environment.


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I fail to see the difference in dogs that are kept in the house whether working or pet dogs. Lets face it, neither knows the difference but the owner.
> 
> I harboured for two weeks, 3 males and one female:
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

All my dogs have always been ran together in the yard without my supervision. 

Of the 20 or so personal dogs I've had over the last 60+ yrs only two couldn't totally be trusted. BOTH of those two I would classify and nucking futs and couldn't be trusted with just about anyone and anything.
My present two intact male, working line GSDs have both had bite training, one Sch III and are together 24/7. 
A number of working bred and hunted terriers also were together 24/7. 
I agree that the "working" dogs in my house are expected to co-exist the same as my other "pet" dogs cause they are pretty much ALL my pets. 
My 8 yr old grandson spent the weekend with us as well as his 10 yr old Chi dog. I expected nothing less from the Chi dog as does my daughter at her house. 
They're all dogs!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

to me these threads are kinda useless unless people specifically explain how they get a new (incoming) dog to tolerate other pack members ... working/professional/pet or whatever
- i already know most of the ways to keep dogs separate, and i've already made most of the mistakes that have resulted in dog fights and didn't even need to watch the dog whisperer to learn them 

- why people keep dogs separate (to me) is boooring 

was hoping maybe this thread would be different and surprised that such a common problem never gets discussed in terms of TRAINING for it


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

rick smith said:


> to me these threads are kinda useless unless people specifically explain how they get a new (incoming) dog to tolerate other pack members ... working/professional/pet or whatever
> - i already know most of the ways to keep dogs separate, and i've already made most of the mistakes that have resulted in dog fights and didn't even need to watch the dog whisperer to learn them
> 
> - why people keep dogs separate (to me) is boooring
> ...


How specific do you want me to be? 

As I indicated earlier we use a phasing in process. I can detail the step-by-step for you if that's what you're asking for.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Phase adult dogs in together over time, after they actually have a good deal of obedience training, and you can have them both perform behaviors individually in the same general area, around each other. They should not be focused on interacting with eachother.


I think it depends on lot on the dogs, and that some dogs will never be able to be trusted together un-supervised, regardless of the ability of the owner, handler..an ecollar and a short piece of garden hose will work for the rest of them


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re "Phase adult dogs in together over time, after they actually have a good deal of obedience training, and you can have them both perform behaviors individually in the same general area, around each other. They should not be focused on interacting with each other."

good advice, and this is the same basis i work from
(if i am the only handler in the picture)

- if they are real bad i will put a barrier between them with me in the middle (like a sliding door), but i don't like to do that for very long because it also tends to build up barrier aggression
- sometimes i will tie out one while i work the other one and then reverse the set up
- i always try and stay between the two dogs as much as possible. if they are gonna have a go, it has to be thru me, and that ain't gonna work 
- work them face to face; and sometimes not. all depends on the dogs
- give each simple OB and then raise the bar to include motion drills
- i always feed them together and to start, it's always from me. that has to be rock solid before i would give them their own bowls, but it's mostly hand feeding

- walking both is a given. with lots of variations so it doesn't get boring and they stop paying attention
- there's a ton of specific drills you can do
- some may require muzzles, but a lot cheaper than vet bills

- and as long as you continue to raise the bar they will tolerate each other better
- if it backslides; no biggy ... just take a step back. shit happens but it's not the end of the world 

** but to me "managing" or "separation" is almost the same as quitting, and if the dog is hopeless, it probably doesn't deserve to live with you, or vice versa. find another arrangement


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

For the most part I never introduce a new dog I planned to keep directly in my yard. Puppies included but that was dependent on what personalities of dogs I had at the time. That can create a "My yard" situation. 
Neutral territory and walks. 
When I did the show routine with terriers I did a lot of grooming on other people's dogs. 
I generally groomed in the yard on a grooming table. Often the dog being groomed would try and get pissy with my dogs. I didn't allow it to happen from either side and you would be suprised how quickly that dog being groomed would settle down. 
My own dogs were so used to me grooming other dogs that they rarely bothered more then a sniff or two at the table. One or two sniffs was all I allowed and the old hands in the yard usually wouldn't bother at all.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

use of neutral territory for alcon...
GOOD point !


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

keeping dogs completely separate or heavily managing things is not giving up... giving up would be getting rid of one of the dogs... sometimes that's not an option, especially with a bite-trained dog or a pet dog with a bite history... 

separation and/or management is the handler showing a continued commitment to both or all their dogs, and not just discarding one when it becomes inconvenient... 

my guys do my damn head in some days, but i've put a hell of a lot of time and effort into all of them and i've actually moved 2 of them on in the past because i thought they'd be better off somewhere else, mostly because i had no one to train with or help me out at the time and the dogs were getting bored and stir crazy... after my circumstances had changed they ended up coming back to me and i guess things happen for a reason... 

so i have my little crew who variously do everything i require of them, and i won't be moving any of them on again and i probably won't replace the first two who pass on, two dogs are much easier than 4!!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Jay
not trying to rant when i use the "train or give up" analogy

example : no matter how many points a sport dog might get or not get in a trial, the training should go on with the same level of motivation
- same with pack issues

maybe i should have said most people i have come across, that i consider the "separate and manage" type, have tried hard too, but at some point the training falls off and more management takes over as a path of least resistance. a lot more peace of mind and a heck of a lot easier then continuing to deal with an issue head on

my point is we will never get the perfection we would like in any dog, but i'm just the type who tries to keep moving in that direction. dogs don't burn out as easy as their owners, and that's probably one reason why the wold is filled with dog trainers //lol//

i don't mind the roller coaster rides. keeps life interesting;but that's just me

when to cut losses and remove a dog or kill it so it won't be a liability is a whole thread in itself 
- not to rehome because of previous bite training is not always a valid reason. i rehomed a Mal (MWD with a LOT of "bite training") who went to a navy chaplain's home with no issues that carried over after the transfer


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Mark Herzog said:


> Cornell, you mention "be intact". It was my understanding that most departments these days are requiring their K9's to be spayed or neutered as a matter of policy.


 As a matter of policy the majority of departments keep their dogs intact unless it becomes a medical issue. I've never heard of a department that requires their PSDs to be spayed or neutered. Whoever writes that policy doesn't know dogs.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

rick smith said:


> - any LEOs dealt with more than on psd at home ?


 I've had two PSDs in the same house for many years without issue. With them were also Akitas, Rotties and other GSDs. Not to mention cats and Chi's or Cockers. 

My new PSDs stayed in the outdoor kennel for about 6 months during his training and early days on duty. He is also allowed to be crated indoors on hot days. Interaction with my other dogs was supervised for awhile before they could be trusted to interact unhindered. I socialize all my dogs and don't allow animal aggression. I currently have 4 at home and any stray, non aggressive dog can come here without any issues.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

For me it's just easier to pre-select the dog or type of dog that will get along w/ other dogs without all the "training". And then manage for even less conflict. 

1) spayed female GSD WG lines
2) neutered small dog mutt
3) intact 4 yr old Czech-bred GSD male, IPO1, BH, AD working towards IPO2 and 3
4) intact 2 yr old GSD WG lines

I leave spayed female and small dog loose in yard. Each intact male has his own yard/kennel. All allowed to play together with close supervision. All can be in house together with some supervision. I don't leave anyone loose in the house when I'm not at home.


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Howard Knauf said:


> As a matter of policy the majority of departments keep their dogs intact unless it becomes a medical issue. I've never heard of a department that requires their PSDs to be spayed or neutered. *Whoever writes that policy doesn't know dogs.*


I agree. The reason I asked was a thread that started a short while ago... 

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f18/intact-spayed-females-le-35754/

Seemed most comments indicated spayed/neutered was the norm... Hence my confusion


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> As a matter of policy the majority of departments keep their dogs intact unless it becomes a medical issue. I've never heard of a department that requires their PSDs to be spayed or neutered. Whoever writes that policy doesn't know dogs.


Just one of the reasons I left SAR!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Mark Herzog said:


> I agree. The reason I asked was a thread that started a short while ago...
> 
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f18/intact-spayed-females-le-35754/
> 
> Seemed most comments indicated spayed/neutered was the norm... Hence my confusion


 I stand corrected. I totally forgot about that Mali bitch. Haven't seen her in 10 months even though she works next to me. She was spayed out of convenience to the best of my knowledge, not by policy....unless they modified their policy for the exception. She's the first female I've seen work in my area so I completely forgot.

My first dog was neutered due to medical issues. He had prostate problems. It didn't kill his drive as he had already matured and had three years on the road.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

_"Since my dogs must work together, for me they must also live together and since they must work both with and without direct supervision, they must be able to co-exist even when not supervised and even with non-working dogs that live in the household."
_
I know and have heard of dozens of dogs that have lived together in the same household, be they, "working dogs" or pet dogs.

It's like saying that celebreties can't live more comfortably together than the ordinary folks. maybe?


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