# Asko von der Lutter



## Tiago Fontes

Hello guys, 

Would like to hear opinions on Asko von der Lutter as a producer. Anyone handling Asko offspring? 

What are the challenges and strengths? 


Regards


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## Joby Becker

may or may not be applicable here....



Joby Becker said:


> Stefan...did I see correctly that you used Bill Kulla's dog, Kway for a breeding...
> 
> Did you have any personal knowledge of ASKO?
> 
> I have heard that on the field he was a machine, but in the kennel and off the field, he was a basket case...hiding in the back, with his hackles up...
> 
> is that true or false info? just curious...





Stefan Schaub said:


> Asko was one of the top producer from the last years. he was not easy, not social. outside he was real dominant. a lot of people want a strong dog,high dominance and best no one else can touch him and must protect the family.
> 
> but no one can life with the time where this kind of dog is growing,this dominance is not a sign of being strong it have grow out of being not sure with things. most of these kind of dogs get early sold because we can not live with this, but we can live with the end product.
> 
> asko for sure have produce kind of these dogs, at the beginning you hate them for his behavior and at the end you love him. i would do it again.
> 
> kway was in my club in germany, real bad behavior when he was young,but all time great in work.he gets older and his behavior better.bill was able to fix all and was successful with him.he was only sold because his owner quit dog sport. when i was 2007 here for a seminar i worked a son of him, for me one of the best young dogs of the last years, worked him again 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXt8M3sissU
> .this dog in germany have made for sure 50 studs.


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## Tiago Fontes

Thanks for taking the time to answer, Joby. I started this thread after reading you quoting Stefan regarding Asko. 


Regards


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## Joby Becker

Tiago Fontes said:


> Thanks for taking the time to answer, Joby. I started this thread after reading you quoting Stefan regarding Asko.
> 
> 
> Regards


I caught that


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## susan tuck

I think Stefan nailed it, my Asko Lutter grandson fits his description.


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## Tiago Fontes

One thing I didn't quite understand was:

Was the dog unsure while growing up or he was already too much to handle from young age? 


Thanks


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## Tiago Fontes

susan tuck said:


> I think Stefan nailed it, my Asko Lutter grandson fits his description.


 
Can you please elaborate? Some things I did not quite understand and would appreciate if you took the time to explain. 


Thanks again


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## susan tuck

Tiago Fontes said:


> Can you please elaborate? Some things I did not quite understand and would appreciate if you took the time to explain.
> 
> 
> Thanks again


No I really can't because I'm not an expert the way Stefan Schaub is, so I can't say what or where the behaviour sprang from as far as fear based or dominant, though personally I always thought it a nerve/low threshold issue? Hopefully Stefan will chime in. All I can say is when the dog was young he was not a fun dog, not one who was social or even always neutral outside of his own environment. As he matured, he became reliably neutral/social outside of his own environment, at almost 8, he is still not social in his own environment, but definitely not hiding in the back hackles up.

Also in the beginning he was not a safe dog for helpers. He would do bad things like try to go over the sleeve try to get the neck or under the sleeve to bite the stomach. It took a long time for him to not hate everyone else. As Mark used to say "he just really doesn't like people, he's a mean dog".


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## Mark Sheplak

I know a guy named Vit Singh who recently imported an Asko son, Gonso vom Wieratal. I have seen him work a couple of times. 

He recently bred him to his girl, Akira vom Forsterhaus. I think that they have puppies on the ground in case you are interested. 

Anyway, Vit loves to talk dogs, so here is his contact information, 


http://interviewswithvit.blogspot.com/


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## Stefan Schaub

Mark Sheplak said:


> I know a guy named Vit Singh who recently imported an Asko son, Gonso vom Wieratal. I have seen him work a couple of times.
> 
> He recently bred him to his girl, Akira vom Forsterhaus. I think that they have puppies on the ground in case you are interested.
> 
> Anyway, Vit loves to talk dogs, so here is his contact information,
> 
> 
> http://interviewswithvit.blogspot.com/


vit is for sure a nice guy but does not have the experience to talk about asko. only he bought gonso full trained does not make him more knowledge about asko.

I have work for sure more than a hundred asko kids,grandkids and grand grandkids.have use him for my breeding program in first generation second and third and now already in fourth. used asko when he was 12 years old.have wait long time before i used him.have first used a asko son out of my training and than him self. have sold a Asko grandson because i have hate his behavior, at the end i have pay money to use him as stud.


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## susan tuck

With mine it was also difficult because where I was, no one knew how to correctly do helper work with a youngster like this, to bring out the best in him. So I would go visit Dean and Mark in Oklahoma and they would work so hard freeing him up, then come home but all their hard work would quickly be screwed up again, back to Oklahoma and square one and so on. Then Dean came out to Calif for about 4 months straight which was really great, things really started to gel, then Mark Saccoccio moved back here for a couple years. Mark worked very hard straightening out the problems that were created by others, and it took a long time, but in the end (thanks to Mark), he became a very fun dog.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

I've known 2 Asko grandsons that were fairly social. I'm curious how the mother line influences the equation. Also, with Stefan returning to him or his line so many times--what do you like about the adult dogs vs. the young adolescents or puppies?

T


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## Christopher Jones

So what im reading is that Asko produced some spooky kids who grew out of it as they matured?


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## susan tuck

Christopher Jones said:


> So what im reading is that Asko produced some spooky kids who grew out of it as they matured?


To me, a spooky dog is one who is scared of his own shadow, a fear biter is spooky, so that wouldn't be an accurate description of my dog now or as a young dog or any of the Asko progeny I know.


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## Joby Becker

susan,,, does this sound like something you could get on board with?



> I think it may just have a lot to do with internal conflict with the young dog in some cases, that the dog is not sure of what he should do, how he should react, or what is expected of him
> 
> sort of like a young dog showing social aggression, or dominance that he is not yet mature enough to back up. He may have urges, but is not mature enough to make sense out of them, or use them to any real degree.
> 
> I think that dogs that are not social dogs by nature, will be more apt to go through some of what is being talked about here.


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## susan tuck

Joby Becker said:


> susan,,, does this sound like something you could get on board with?
> 
> I think it may just have a lot to do with internal conflict with the young dog in some cases, that the dog is not sure of what he should do, how he should react, or what is expected of him
> 
> sort of like a young dog showing social aggression, or dominance that he is not yet mature enough to back up. He may have urges, but is not mature enough to make sense out of them, or use them to any real degree.
> 
> I think that dogs that are not social dogs by nature, will be more apt to go through some of what is being talked about here.


Yes.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

So what behaviors do you see? Lunging, barking at strangers? Is it always forward movement or do they retreat? At what age did these behaviors cease. Was it a matter of age or socialization, conditioning, etc. Is it just people or environmental? Would it be better even to delay the bite work training until they mature?

For me if they were truly spooky, they wouldn't grow out of it. The dogs I've seen test at 7 weeks or so, sound as a dollar--very social and environmentally confident. Then somewhere after 16 weeks, they start phasing and you see what could be described as fear, spooky, or nervy behaviors. Handled right, they outgrow it and are very sound, reliable adults.

T


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## Christopher Jones

susan tuck said:


> To me, a spooky dog is one who is scared of his own shadow, a fear biter is spooky, so that wouldn't be an accurate description of my dog now or as a young dog or any of the Asko progeny I know.


 Spooky to me is a pup who gets spooked by some things. Not a fear biter but might be suspicious of something for no apparent reason.


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## Christopher Jones

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> For me if they were truly spooky, they wouldn't grow out of it.
> T


 I just call them "nervous shit bags"


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Chris, I know where you're coming from. It sounds and feels better to characterize it in terms of the Armin quote but when it comes right down to it--spooky behavior. The dog startles. It can be noise, different visuals or objects in the environment or different movement by or people in general. Spooky, nervy, fearful, reactive--whatever. 

T


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## Tiago Fontes

Christopher Jones said:


> So what im reading is that Asko produced some spooky kids who grew out of it as they matured?


 
This is exactly what I would like to know. 

Also, when fully mature were there issues being observed when worked outside the routine or nothing was noticed? 



Regards


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## susan tuck

Tiago Fontes said:


> ...
> Also, when fully mature were there issues being observed when worked outside the routine or nothing was noticed?
> Regards


None that I am aware of. Asko progeny are just real pains in the ass until they mature.


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## Stefan Schaub

Tiago Fontes said:


> This is exactly what I would like to know.
> 
> Also, when fully mature were there issues being observed when worked outside the routine or nothing was noticed?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards


when fully mature you can do with them what you want and where you want. 
but who really want a real strong dog with real character.Asko have produce a lot of them

i bought a few weeks ago a dog from germany,ipo3 good points, a real male. have make a ad on pedi-data. someone makes a downpayment and have come last week down here to pick him up. the guy thought he is taff and knows so much.have show him the dog in ob and than he want to play with him.it did not take ten seconds ,Oniel growled hat him because the guy was pulling on his pinch,5 seconds later he showed him real teeth. end of the story the guy left without Oniel. Talking about real dogs and handling real dogs are two different pair shoes.


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## Rick Mattox

"Talking about real dogs and handling real dogs are two different pair shoes."

Amen. Know how to handle what you ask for. LOL.


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## Tiago Fontes

Stefan Schaub said:


> when fully mature you can do with them what you want and where you want.
> but who really want a real strong dog with real character.Asko have produce a lot of them
> 
> i bought a few weeks ago a dog from germany,ipo3 good points, a real male. have make a ad on pedi-data. someone makes a downpayment and have come last week down here to pick him up. the guy thought he is taff and knows so much.have show him the dog in ob and than he want to play with him.it did not take ten seconds ,Oniel growled hat him because the guy was pulling on his pinch,5 seconds later he showed him real teeth. end of the story the guy left without Oniel. Talking about real dogs and handling real dogs are two different pair shoes.


 
Ok. And what is your point with this story? water down" the dogs because those who want real dogs cant handle them? Make the breed even weaker than it is? 

Explain it to me, because I really don't understand the purpose of your posts. 

I asked about Asko's progeny. What he throws, good, bad and ugly... Not about some person's handling skills regarding a dog he purchased through an ad on pedigree data base. 

Which lines cross well with Asko blood? Legitimate question. 


Thank you


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## Sue Calkins

I have an Asko grandson through his motherline, sired by Dasty Berger Hochburg.http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=408409-lazer-vom-landschaft Stable dog, aloof but social, environment not an issue. Extremely hard hitting and gripping, very powerful overall. A workaholic. NO handler aggression, thankfully  High prey, serious when called on, nicely balanced drives. He was very trainable from the start, but strong minded. Could have been a top competition dog with another handler, as was told to me many times by many people. I'd own another like him in a heartbeat. Stefan, Greg Mominee knows this dog.
I also have his daughter. Very much like her father, but although very stable in neutral settings, is more civil.


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## jamie lind

Tiago Fontes said:


> Ok. And what is your point with this story? water down" the dogs because those who want real dogs cant handle them? Make the breed even weaker than it is?
> 
> Explain it to me, because I really don't understand the purpose of your posts.
> 
> I asked about Asko's progeny. What he throws, good, bad and ugly... Not about some person's handling skills regarding a dog he purchased through an ad on pedigree data base.
> 
> Which lines cross well with Asko blood? Legitimate question.
> 
> 
> Thank you


He's explained what asko produces. Joby quoted it. Then he said it again. What I got from the story is if you can't understand what he's talking about you might haved not seen it before. And it might be a good idea to see it before you decide you want one.


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## Tiago Fontes

He said:

*"I have work for sure more than a hundred asko kids,grandkids and grand grandkids"*

I would like to know if these "for sure more than a hundred asko kids, grand kids..." were all good... Also, if there were any health problems observed in these "more than a hundred"... 

If Asko produced hundreds of descendants and Stefan has worked " for sure more than a hundred..." then we're talking about a 100% success rate, based on his expertise, that Asko dogs can do it all. 

I've been in this game for a while... and smell bullshit from a distance. 

I do not want (for now) Asko blood. My hands are full with what I got right now...


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## jamie lind

100% success? No health problems? I think your crazy. Hye said he used him at an old age. I think he said 12. I would think he was happy with what he saw. Its not like he was using a new stud.


Tiago Fontes said:


> He said:
> 
> *"I have work for sure more than a hundred asko kids,grandkids and grand grandkids"*
> 
> I would like to know if these "for sure more than a hundred asko kids, grand kids..." were all good... Also, if there were any health problems observed in these "more than a hundred"...
> 
> If Asko produced hundreds of descendants and Stefan has worked " for sure more than a hundred..." then we're talking about a 100% success rate, based on his expertise, that Asko dogs can do it all.
> 
> I've been in this game for a while... and smell bullshit from a distance.
> 
> I do not want (for now) Asko blood. My hands are full with what I got right now...


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## Joby Becker

Tiago Fontes said:


> He said:
> 
> *"I have work for sure more than a hundred asko kids,grandkids and grand grandkids"*
> 
> I would like to know if these "for sure more than a hundred asko kids, grand kids..." were all good... Also, if there were any health problems observed in these "more than a hundred"...
> 
> If Asko produced hundreds of descendants and Stefan has worked " for sure more than a hundred..." then we're talking about a 100% success rate, based on his expertise, that Asko dogs can do it all.
> 
> I've been in this game for a while... and smell bullshit from a distance.
> 
> I do not want (for now) Asko blood. My hands are full with what I got right now...


I did not read anything that impied 100% success rate personally, or that they can do it all...to me anyhow..

I dont think Stefan is very big on typing in English, on message boards, and some things MAY SEEM to come off differently than intended, due to this, but could be also wrong, as I don't know him.


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## Tiago Fontes

jamie lind said:


> 100% success? No health problems? I think your crazy. Hye said he used him at an old age. I think he said 12. I would think he was happy with what he saw. Its not like he was using a new stud.


 
I think you're trying to argue with me, without fully understanding what I said... 

If he's worked hundreds of Asko descendants, then, for sure, he must have seen some crappy ones... I would like to know the good, the bad and the ugly on Asko's production sheet. That simple.

If he can't point out the weak parts of Asko descendants, then I must assume he has worked hundreds of dogs that were all good, hence a 100% success rate. 

But, I am sure, out of those hundreds of Asko descendants, he must have seen some sub-par individuals. I am interested in learning about the weaknesses concerning these dogs. 

Hope it's clearer now. 


Regards


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## jamie lind

I understood what you said. I also understood what he said. And no I'm not trying to be a dick.


Tiago Fontes said:


> I think you're trying to argue with me, without fully understanding what I said...
> 
> If he's worked hundreds of Asko descendants, then, for sure, he must have seen some crappy ones... I would like to know the good, the bad and the ugly on Asko's production sheet. That simple.
> 
> If he can't point out the weak parts of Asko descendants, then I must assume he has worked hundreds of dogs that were all good, hence a 100% success rate.
> 
> But, I am sure, out of those hundreds of Asko descendants, he must have seen some sub-par individuals. I am interested in learning about the weaknesses concerning these dogs.
> 
> Hope it's clearer now.
> 
> 
> Regards


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## Rick Mattox

Tiago to get a true picture of what you are looking for I think you would have to keep your scope to just direct offspring of Asko's. These are the dogs that he has the most influence over. Then you would have to look at the entire pedigree. This will help you to see if the good or bad came from Asko or the Dam. If it was the combination of the linebreeding in the pedigree.... As we know it's a lot more complicated than did Asko sire the dog. Unfortunately the Breed warden system here in the States is lacking compaired with that of Germany. This would be a great question for one of them.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Tiago Fontes said:


> Ok. And what is your point with this story? water down" the dogs because those who want real dogs cant handle them? Make the breed even weaker than it is?
> 
> Explain it to me, because I really don't understand the purpose of your posts.
> 
> I asked about Asko's progeny. What he throws, good, bad and ugly... Not about some person's handling skills regarding a dog he purchased through an ad on pedigree data base.
> 
> Which lines cross well with Asko blood? Legitimate question.
> 
> 
> Thank you


Obviously he feels that they cross well with his. Those pedigrees are a start.


T


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Tiago,

I think you are crying BS on your assumptions, not what was posted. The "weakness" he and others pointed out is that the dogs are sub-par [for want of a better description] while immature. They like what they see in the mature adult and in the whelping box.

What Stefan said:

*I have work for sure more than a hundred asko kids,grandkids and grand grandkids.have use him for my breeding program in first generation second and third and now already in fourth. used asko when he was 12 years old.have wait long time before i used him.have first used a asko son out of my training and than him self. have sold a Asko grandson because i have hate his behavior, at the end i have pay money to use him as stud.*

Minimally, what this means to me is:

1. He has worked enough Asko descendants to feel he has knowledge of their working traits.
2. He saw enough positives to use him in his breeding program multiple times, including linebreeding. He must like what he is getting combined with the mother line he has continued since he started. In the past he has stated which of his bitches is best combined with Asko blood and which is not. If you follow his breeding there are dogs in Asko's pedigree that he has said he likes so its not just the dog himself but what is behind him.
3. He waited a long time before he used Asko himself as a stud. That was the research time. He first used an Asko son "out of his training." Hugely important to me. As a trainer, once I run a dog through my system, then I know what he is. So reading this, he was confident of the dog because he had fully tested his genetics through his training system.
4. Lastly, he's not that crazy about how they are as immature dogs and didn't want to wait a particular dog out so sold him. The poetic justice of that is paying the stud fee in the end. 

As for your weaknesses, obviously the good of what he gets in terms of what he is looking for outweighs any negatives, if they are there when this dog is infused with what he already has. WITH HIS LINES and for what he wants, Asko works and Pike didn't. Does it mean that he is saying Asko works with everything? No. This is the essence of breeding--finding the clicks that are breeding gold. 

T


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## Gillian Schuler

Rick Mattox said:


> "Talking about real dogs and handling real dogs are two different pair shoes."
> 
> Amen. Know how to handle what you ask for. LOL.


And you do?


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## Gillian Schuler

Joby Becker said:


> I did not read anything that impied 100% success rate personally, or that they can do it all...to me anyhow..
> 
> I dont think Stefan is very big on typing in English, on message boards, and some things MAY SEEM to come off differently than intended, due to this, but could be also wrong, as I don't know him.


This is nothing personal but many of our members do not have English mother tongue but apart from grammatical errors seem to get their point across.


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## Stefan Schaub

Tiago Fontes said:


> He said:
> 
> *"I have work for sure more than a hundred asko kids,grandkids and grand grandkids"*
> 
> I would like to know if these "for sure more than a hundred asko kids, grand kids..." were all good... Also, if there were any health problems observed in these "more than a hundred"...
> 
> If Asko produced hundreds of descendants and Stefan has worked " for sure more than a hundred..." then we're talking about a 100% success rate, based on his expertise, that Asko dogs can do it all.
> 
> I've been in this game for a while... and smell bullshit from a distance.
> 
> I do not want (for now) Asko blood. My hands are full with what I got right now...




i do not think you smell bullshit from a distance.

You are a funny guy. If i say more than a hundred than i mean more than a hundred. Asko have make more than 300 studs maybe more, so what do you think how many Asko kids,grand kids have been around and are still around. right now i have still more than 10 dogs with asko blood in my training.

Bsp 2004 9 Asko Kids ,best one in my opinion Quincy Waldwinkel not because i have have seen it on youtube!!!oh right i was helper there

Quincy vom Waldwinkel (289 V/3) real dog German Police dual purpose

Janoch von Grube Waldecke (288 V/4)

Nando vom Hilsblick (285 SG/7)

Balco vom Mörfelder Land (283 SG/11)

Igor vom Dunklen Zwinger (283 SG/13)

Wismo vom Herding Brook (276 SG/31)

Wolf v. alten Felsenkeller (275 SG/34) full brother Watz High Protec.BSP03 

Gordon vom Schafweide (271 SG/50)

Drago Eichendorffsiedlung (267 G/63)

go on my youtube and you find for sure more than ten videos with asko lines in work with me.

Asko is one of the best producer!!!done!!Health who knows,how many people tell you the truth about there dogs,how many people send bad hips or elbows in for certification.how many people tell you about missing teeth.

if you can read between the lines you will find your answer.German SV is great for the reason of research. statistic for how many-pup born,how many x-ray how many titled how many breed survey how many used in breed.

I know you are big in Pike,but compare Pike/Asko today. 



I think my english is way better than the dog training/breeding of a lot of people here in this forum. for sure it is easier to write than to train dogs and for sure it is easier to get a expert for dogs online than in real training.


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## Stefan Schaub

Gillian Schuler said:


> This is nothing personal but many of our members do not have English mother tongue but apart from grammatical errors seem to get their point across.


here we go again


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## Gillian Schuler

_I think my english is way better than the dog training/breeding of a lot of people here in this forum. for sure it is easier to write than to train dogs and for sure it is easier to get a expert for dogs online than in real training._



He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good.​


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## Tiago Fontes

Stefan Schaub said:


> I know you are big in Pike,but compare Pike/Asko today.


 
What would you like me to compare? 

I even started this thread in hopes to obtain enough information to guide me towards Asko as a potential cross to my linebred Pike dogs (in due time). What is the problem with questioning you? Understand that I do not accept things, just because you or some other guy says so... It must make sense. 

Here's something about me: 

Believe nothing in what I hear and only half of what I see. 


Thanks for your time.


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## Eric Read

so if you're not going to accept what he says, why ask? Go work the dogs yourself and form an opinion. Problem solved.


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## Tiago Fontes

Might as well... and talk to some others who have hands on experience with Asko descendants.


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## jamie lind

Tiago Fontes said:


> Here's something about me:
> 
> Believe nothing in what I hear and only half of what I see.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your time.


Then why ask on a message board. I've never heard of Stefan turning anyone away that wanted to come see.


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## Kat Hunsecker

I have no first hand experience with Asko 

All my girls are have Asko somewhere in the lines.
First one is Kessy von der Grube Waldecke, a grand daughter to Asko, and a grand daughter to Troll von der Boesen Nachbarschaft. 
She was very tough and intelligent, independent. not too much prey drive but lots of defense drives, came to herself and peak in work with about 2- 3 yrs old. Tough and determined in all her doings. Though people who knew Troll and saw her- were more inclined to call her a "typical" Troll!!!

I have kept a few of her offspring, they all are tough and determined, combined with high intelligence. Her one daughter is a copy of her temperament wise ,but looks the total opposite. All offspring from her are intelligent and all capable of working hard and determined.

Two of my other dogs, go back to Asko son Yago von der Belferlein, one daughter of Yago, one Grand daughter. I like them, and all the dogs I have met out of Yago. 
Hard workers and all intelligent. 
As to the maturity thing, It may be just my point of view, but I call them late bloomers. Not because they are slow, no -exactly the opposite,because they are very intelligent. 
The tendency for them to give it their all early on, makes them easy to train, but can easily get overload. They are busy in their heads, and it takes some time to get it all absorbed and put together, and this happens with maturity. Yes , they can be challenging to raise, but if you keep patient and keep educating them without overloading them- or asking too much too early ( beware because they are willing to give it) you will have a great dog once they come fully into their own.

How much of this is Asko, I don't know, but you may be able to paint a picture if you put all knowledge together and see what seems to be consistent?!?

There is was an artice in the SV magazine quite a while ago about Asko. I do not have the exact year and Edition, but maybe someone does and you care to find it and translate it... ?!?


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## Rick Mattox

LOL, Gillian. As a matter of fact I do. And anyone that knows me and seen my dogs can verify. As a matter of fact Mike Diehl worked my Sch3 male and said he'd have no problem working the the street with him. When I was in Florida for work I visited Gottfreied Dildei's club and the Police department that trains there wanted to buy him. And if you're a little closer to Germany ask Horst from Talka Marda what he thought of the Enno v. Fuchsstein son of mine he worked in Ohio. 

Is this a fight you're trying to pick? I thought this was the WDF not the PDB? LOL


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## Rick Mattox

As far as Asko direct offspring the only one I had personal interaction with was this female; http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=119935-yelli-vom-kassler-kreuz

She was an extremely tough/serious female in the work, owned by a good friend of mine. She made Sch3 with her by 2yrs of age and didn't seem to go through an uneasy stage that I know of. Yelli's mother Anja of course was the best producing female for Kassler Kreuz.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Okay, leave it to JO to incite a riot and of course, locked thread--but there are some discussions here of Asko working and even reference videos. Thoughts?

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f17/asko-von-der-lutter-has-died-4695/index3.html

T


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## mike suttle

Stefan Schaub said:


> I know you are big in Pike,but compare Pike/Asko today.


I will voice my limited experience with offspring from these two dogs. I had one direct son from Asko out of my old female Shaquira V Tiekerhook. He was a nice GSD, good drives for the ball, solid hunt, good nerves, good grip, and was easy to push into real aggression. He was social but dominant. Overall a normal good police K-9 quality dog. I sold him to Drew Pierce on this forum several years ago and I believe Drew was happy with him.
I imported three Pike sons from one litter, to be honest they were all shit. I tried again later with another bitch and Pike, and once again, not good pups. All 5 pike sons together were not as good as the Asko son that I had. But to be fair, there are some good Pike sons out there, I have seen them, But I have seen a lot more good Asko sons.


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## Drew Peirce

The dog your talking about was sired by Fado vd Lutter not Asko, but considering the sheer amount of inventory (dogs) that have passed thru your kennel since that time it's an understandable oversight.


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## mike suttle

Drew Peirce said:


> The dog your talking about was sired by Fado vd Lutter not Asko, but considering the sheer amount of inventory (dogs) that have passed thru your kennel since that time it's an understandable oversight.


Holy shit Drew, my mistake, you're absolutely correct. I'm getting old and losing my mind. I stand corrected. There certainly have been several through here since that one for sure. In any case I do think Asko (and Fado too) was a good producer.


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## Connie Sutherland

A few posts have been deleted (about PMs).



Let's keep PMs in PMs.



The thread is about "Asko von der Lutter."


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## Sue DiCero

I had a female from one of the earlier breedings from Asko; Fina vom Wolfhagerland. No issue with temperament, pushy female that could be a bit dominant.


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## patricia powers

would it be fair to assume this?..........asko produced well against strong nerved bitches, but not so well against more effy ones. i would be curious to know how much quincy inherited from dixie rather than asko. when i look at dixie offspring i see a lot of fado/harro coming thru which seems quite likely as the sire of the dam is a very prominent position for inheriting character traits.


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## Tiago Fontes

mike suttle said:


> I will voice my limited experience with offspring from these two dogs. I had one direct son from Asko out of my old female Shaquira V Tiekerhook. He was a nice GSD, good drives for the ball, solid hunt, good nerves, good grip, and was easy to push into real aggression. He was social but dominant. Overall a normal good police K-9 quality dog. I sold him to Drew Pierce on this forum several years ago and I believe Drew was happy with him.
> I imported three Pike sons from one litter, to be honest they were all shit. I tried again later with another bitch and Pike, and once again, not good pups. All 5 pike sons together were not as good as the Asko son that I had. But to be fair, there are some good Pike sons out there, I have seen them, But I have seen a lot more good Asko sons.


 
Thanks Mike. Appreciate your input. 


Regards


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## Rick Mattox

A lot of discussion has been made about mother lines. I believe that Asko is an example of this. Having heard from those that knew both of Asko's parents and the dogs they produced. Haska also produced Fado v/d Lutter. A strong dominate dog who produces strong dominate dogs, very similar to Asko. She also produced Basko v/d Lutter who was much the same.


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## Kat Hunsecker

glad someone brought it up, the dam is equally important. Might have been a very good thing to point out again.... !
By looking at all the combinations with Asko and different females, you have a better idea of what is being passed on by him on a "regular" basis. 
But one should also look at what the Dam brings to the table!
That is often something that get's forgotten or underestimated! It takes two to make one!!!
Thanks for bringing this up.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Kat Hunsecker said:


> glad someone brought it up, the dam is equally important. Might have been a very good thing to point out again.... !
> By looking at all the combinations with Asko and different females, you have a better idea of what is being passed on by him on a "regular" basis.
> But one should also look at what the Dam brings to the table!
> That is often something that get's forgotten or underestimated! It takes two to make one!!!
> Thanks for bringing this up.


I believe the dam side of things has also been brought up regarding Pike and what he produced with the Gardenfense KNPV bitch line and Kathargo bitches to name a couple.

T


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## Meg O'Donovan

In the Thoroughbred racing world, there are some bloodstock experts whose consulting (and fees) are based on their excellent knowledge and research into the bloodlines and how they have combined/resulted in past breedings/performance. They research the bloodlines and performance to suggest recommended breedings (or to research potential purchases of yearlings, etc.). My sister is an equine vet and I've met friends of hers who make a decent living at this. The ones I've met are skilled at understanding genetics, gathering objective data, and having reputations for personal integrity.

It may be easier to evaluate performance in race horses than in dogs (e.g. quantifiable in times, performance in track conditions, health histories). Does anyone do this kind of consulting as paid work in the dog world? I realize that the pockets of Thoroughbred owners are likely deeper than those of most dog owners, but it does seem that it is a niche market that someone who loved this kind of work could fill?


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## Rick Mattox

That is what a breed warden is for. Like I mentioned earlier the German breed wardens would be the best at this for obvious reasons.


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## patricia powers

very quickly, running thru pedigrees of some of asko's more well known progeny, i could not help noticing some names continued to pop up in the dam's pedigrees: most common was falko sindern. also numerous 
were marc herkulesblick & harro lechrainstadt. i think it would be fairly safe to say that asko produced well with bitches out of those males. (either daughters or granddaughters) as i said, this was just a quick look, so i'm sure there are others, but these three really stood out. pjp


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## Hunter Allred

For whatever it is worth, I have a great grandson through Brawnson & Stuka. He is very sharp but very predictable and stable which as I understand are how Stuka is and Brawnson was... My easiest dog in the house, and has never come up the lead even when perhaps it was well deserved. A correction from some else will get a stern enough warning from him that no one has tried it again. He has been out in public at bars,restaurants, beaches, etc, several times a week for his entire life. Not a single lunge or bite at people or show dog aggression. He will always posture back/growl at a person who locks eyes with him, but the person can look away, walk up low profile, and pet him without issue. He doesn't seek attention from anyone but his closest circle.


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