# Male vs. Female - What is your opinion on these statements?



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Male vs. Female - What is your opinion on these statements? And would you say these statements could be true for a GSD but untrue for a different breed such as a Mal or Dutchie? Or are these universal truths? Or is this bullshit?

1. Females are a little easier to live with as a house dog

2. Females never (or very very seldom) get dominant

3. Females want to please their handlers more than males

4. Males are tougher, it is extremely rare to find a female who can do serious work or police quality work

5. If you want to compete at the top level of sport buy a male, very very few females can cut it at this level

6. As a general rule, males are harder than females and can take a harder correction


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

7. Never make generalizations. :lol: :lol:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> 7. Never make generalizations. :lol: :lol:


I pulled that stuff off this page:

http://www.leerburg.com/pupqa.htm#female

I was just curious whether there was any merit to this, because alot of people have told me they love working females, but those statements would lead you to believe that a female is worthless as more than a puppy vessel lol. I've also been told the phrase "dominant female" many times by various dutchie breeders over the last 6 months. My pup is supposed to be a dominant bitch as she grows up, but the page above would suggest that it's unlikely that she'd be dominant. Or would those statements only apply to the lines bred at this kennel rather than a generalization for the entire breed or all dogs in general?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I would make that generalization with MOST breeds, but there are lines out there that have extreamly dominate bitches. Will's Fetz and Van Camp's Emma are litter mates. They are BOTH dominant monsters that would eat the 'AVERAGE" dog owner for lunch!


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I like Jeff's #7 but this IMO
#1- ?
#2- False
#3-False
#4-True
#5-True
#6-True

#7- very true


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Male vs. Female - What is your opinion on these statements? And would you say these statements could be true for a GSD but untrue for a different breed such as a Mal or Dutchie? Or are these universal truths? Or is this bullshit?
> 
> 1. Females are a little easier to live with as a house dog
> 
> ...


i'll preface this with the following: i have never owned a female dog, so my comments are based on other people's stories and from the females i've seen work...

1. wouldn't know

2. i would say that's pretty much false. while true those problems are usually associated with males, i wouldn't say that it only occurs "seldom" or "never"

3. untrue

4. generally true

5. generally true

6. generally true

the only two i have a major problem with are 2 and 3. 4-6 are a pretty accurate generalization. again, being a generalization, there are many exceptions to the rule. i have seen females every bit as hard as any male.

and do we have to hear about how unbelievable some leerburg moderator's dog is over here? :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Male vs. Female - What is your opinion on these statemen*



Tim Martens said:


> ......and do we have to hear about how unbelievable some leerburg moderator's dog is over here? :lol:


I know that was just a funny, so I'm just popping in to remind us all that we do not bash any other boards. 8)


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Male vs. Female - What is your opinion on these statemen*



Connie Sutherland said:


> we do not bash any other boards. 8)


then it's a good thing i didn't bash another board isn't it? :roll:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Male vs. Female - What is your opinion on these statemen*



Tim Martens said:


> Connie Sutherland said:
> 
> 
> > we do not bash any other boards. 8)
> ...



LOL! OK, you got me. Yes, you didn't need the reminder! 8)


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

I would rather have a great female than a great male.They do seem to be hard to find.

Can anyone direct me to a forum where I can bash other boards.I have a lot of bashing pent up inside me. :wink:

Greg


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> I would rather have a great female than a great male.They do seem to be hard to find.


that's the problem greg. EVERYONE would rather have a great female. not because they would work the dog, but in hopes that she would pass her DNA on to her pups. most of the time, they work till they get the lowest title they can (SchH 1, PH1, PSA 1, Brevet, etc.) and then they are turned into puppy plants....


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> .....Can anyone direct me to a forum where I can bash other boards.I have a lot of bashing pent up inside me. :wink:...Greg


Type a big mean message bashing everyone you want to bash, then click "preview" so you can read it and see what it would look like.......then don't click "submit."

Kinda like in email (Outlook or Entourage) when I fire up a big fat nasty-gram and then put it in my "drafts" file, and look at it every now and then, and smile a nasty little smile......... :twisted: 

It's not perfect, but it helps!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Screw it, I just write it. 


I see females as a bonus program. If they have good genetics, they are used in a breeding program, and if they are really good workers, they get used in a breeding program. Either way, they make puppies, unless you don't want puppies, so why did you get a female?????


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

As the saying goes, "Don't mess around with a bitch". :lol: 

I generally like strong females, more focused on the work, easier to handle, less testy, explosive on defense work. I guess them being puppy vessels and carries much influence on the pups make them genetically stronger. 

Just a question, weren't the most elite canines of Nazi Germany females? Why, even Hitler had one.

Just my preference....


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## Mike Russell (Apr 9, 2006)

1. bullshit
2. bullshit
3. sometimes
4. sometimes
5. bullshit (males are often used because there is no off time for heats and a female's true worth to a breeding program is in the whelping box)
6. bullshit
7. true

About great females being hard to find...
For sale? Yes! Who wants to part with a great bitch that can help further a breeding program. It's always easier to "rent a male" (via stud service) than to try to lease a good producing bitch.


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## Mike Russell (Apr 9, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Screw it, I just write it.


AMEN BROTHER! :twisted: 



Jose Alberto Reanto said:


> As the saying goes, "Don't mess around with a bitch".


They don't call em bitches for nothing. :wink:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't know how my pup compares to other pups, but she's an aggressive psycho at less than 13 weeks n throws tantrums worse than my craziest ex.... if her bitework on the field is as good as her bitework on my legs then I think she'll be alotta fun. The only problem I have with breeding is that I'd wanna keep all the pups... lol. But I'd like to breed her one day if she proved her worth and I were in a situation where that'd be a good idea :lol:

As for why I got a female... I have a male that hates other males, but loves females. I played the odds and got the sex that is most likely to work long-term. Maybe I'll get another male one day, but not before I have the escape plan of being able to seperate the dogs... seperating them 100% of the time would be very difficult for me right now, so I went with a female


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

I dont think there are any good bitches anymore.....oh you are talking dogs.My mistake :lol: 

I really love to work bitches in protection work.They are less distracted and can do everything a male can do.

Greg


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2006)

You guys are cracking me up. Greg, I'm so glad I taught you humor. I was actually laughing out loud, by myself, reading your posts. Connie, great idea. I thought I was the only one who did that trick. People think I'm bad now-they should see what I DON'T submit :twisted: .

I wasn't going to be the one to say what Al said, but I'm glad he did. Hitler himself had females. While he may have been a "bubble off," he didn't do anything w/out reason. Not saying that females now are of the same caliber, but if not, I think it's lack of testing and work that have caused this.

I think part of the male-oriented mindset is intentional in a way. It was generally perceived for whatever reason, and it's continued to the point where females are nothing more than easy-bake ovens for pups. People underestimate the impact a female can have on pups, as if she's unimportant...folks, she's half of the DNA in that pup... :roll: I am not a breeder, but I wouldn't even bother breeding a really kick-ass male to a half-ass female, as many seem to do. I think a lot of them are perceived unfairly as being less capable than their male counterparts, when it's really greed that's stunting their potential. People think they have a decent female on their hands, so they want to make money immediately, and get greedy. They don't work her to her fullest and see how far she could go; they stop when they've seen enough to justify breeding her to a good male. Just look at the title (not that they're everything at all) differences in general between them. Are they not capable of more than IPO1, or has no one bothered to find out?


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> I wasn't going to be the one to say what Al said, but I'm glad he did. Hitler himself had females. While he may have been a "bubble off," he didn't do anything w/out reason.


Yea, but they might not have been good reasons. :wink:


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2006)

Patrick, I'm not going to say anything more on this, but I will tell you that I think you'd be quite intrigued if you did any research on this particular topic. :wink:


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

If the bitch wont work..."kick her to the curb"!! :wink:

To underestimate a female is a huge mistake.I had a bitch a few years ago with very little training.She wouldnt back down from anybody.She was sharp but very stable.
I would take her over any dog Ive had ever.

Also bitches can be more focused in serious work.

On the other hand,I dont like sporty type bitches.I have a Leerburg bitch that is just annoying. :x 

Greg


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2006)

Aww, c'mon, what's annoying about her? The fact that she's unable to make eye contact, jumps at you constantly, can't maintain a simple "sit," yaps like a terrier, and is for all intents and purposes the hardest (or dumbest?) dog anyone's ever encountered, or is there another reason? :|


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> People underestimate the impact a female can have on pups, as if she's unimportant...*folks, she's half of the DNA in that pup*... :roll: I am not a breeder, but I wouldn't even bother breeding a really kick-ass male to a half-ass female, as many seem to do.



I would never breed a kick-ass male with a half-ass female, but I can the other way around and still have good chances of producing good pups. Physical DNA distribution being even may be true but it seems there's more to it than that. I count heavilly on my females, breeding-wise.

My opinion...


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> If the bitch wont work..."kick her to the curb"!! :wink:
> 
> To underestimate a female is a huge mistake.I had a bitch a few years ago with very little training.She wouldnt back down from anybody.She was sharp but very stable.
> I would take her over any dog Ive had ever.
> ...



Same here, Greg. I have female returnees, too much of a female for their male handlers. 

My current personal is a female Mal, very little training when she was returned. It is a common joke in our group that if anyone absents himself from training, he would be weekend decoy to my female Mal for a month. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It really is in how you look at things. Of course they (females) are important. Really good programs can be based on a good bitch, or a good stud. Really doesn't matter which, there are so many variables to begin with, just be glad you have one or the other. (or at least think you do  )


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

There is a really good passage in Schutzhund: Theory and Training Methods about how von Stephanitz preferred females for a lot of reasons...mostly boiling down to him thinking they had more empathy (I had typed it out but it got erased somehow and I ain't gonna repost it :evil. But the authors, like pretty much everybody here and other places I have read/seen/heard, say that good females are much harder to find and I bet that's a economic issue (people are going to hold onto a good female) than purely a genetic one.

I do consistently hear people say female GSDs are more pack-protective than territory-protective...from my breeder to these forums to trainers to books to whatever...that is one of the main reasons I got a female. I do think that's probably just as much a generalization (and a "projection") as people talking about bad-ass male dog aggression. But the funny thing about generalizations is that, in general...well, you know....


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> 1. Females are a little easier to live with as a house dog
> 
> ?
> 
> ...


my opinion and experience :wink:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

> my opinion and experience :wink:


Hah, I laughed out loud when I read this. Way to put it up there, alpha lady!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> > my opinion and experience :wink:
> 
> 
> Hah, I laughed out loud when I read this. Way to put it up there, alpha lady!


Dutch experiences are way different than the american ones, I guess.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

not experienced enough to say whether you are right or wrong, just that i like your style! 8)


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

I have to say.... that it is nice to hear people say good things about females other than the fact that they are good puppy machines.. :lol: I have a female that will give any male a run for their money. She is extreme all drives, hard as hell, smart like crazy... a real thinker, & fast & agile. She can be a big clown or hell on the otherside of the sleeve. She commits to the sleeve on the courage test like a male & comes in like a missle. I have a wonderful male, also......but he is paled by her drives & ability. I only can hope that when the time comes she can pass on at least 1/2 of what she is to her pups. She doesn't change a bit in her work when in heat...she is just as intense & committed. She will work anywhere, anytine, & will engage always !!! I love her to bits & would not trade or sell her for all the $$$$ in the world. She IS a handful to live with as times. & she lives in the house along with my male...but that's what you get with that kind of drives. It has nothing to do with being a female it's all about the drive.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Male vs. Female - What is your opinion on these statemen*



Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > > my opinion and experience :wink:
> ...


I watched 2 females work today, I was gonna work one of the females (an X MH) but didn't have time. Any doubt I may have had as to the working ability and intensity of a female dog is completely gone now. Perhaps female GSD's are different, but the Mal's I saw today were very very nice dogs!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If you'd like to see a nice working female GSD, go to my club's web site. The bitch on the cover page, Lens Vikar, is the dam of my dog Thunder. She is kicka$$ awesome. 

www.rwdc.org


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

I would prefer watching any dog, male or female, worked in changing environments and scenarios, making sure the dog performs in the way it really is, and not routined or conditioned into the dog. The foundation of that dog will be evident, as well as its nerves and its willingness to work with its handler.

Just my preference...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Well said Jose! Although we are a sport club, we have a lot of fun setting scenarios in cars, on cars, slick floors, dark buildings, etc. I doubt we do this to the level of serious ASR folks, but we do enjoy testing our dogs. Not all can do it. I started my dog in SAR when he was 7wks old. By 16 weeks, he had been in planes, helicopters, boats, fire houses with horns and sirens blairing, firing ranges, collapsed buildings, etc. He's alwasy been steady as a rock. The Schutzhund field is just another big playground to him, yet he'll go civil in a heart beat on helpers with no equiptment on. I'm moe then happy with my sport dog. :wink:


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Well said Jose! Although we are a sport club, we have a lot of fun setting scenarios in cars, on cars, slick floors, dark buildings, etc. I doubt we do this to the level of serious ASR folks, but we do enjoy testing our dogs. Not all can do it. I started my dog in SAR when he was 7wks old. By 16 weeks, he had been in planes, helicopters, boats, fire houses with horns and sirens blairing, firing ranges, collapsed buildings, etc. He's alwasy been steady as a rock. The Schutzhund field is just another big playground to him, yet he'll go civil in a heart beat on helpers with no equiptment on. I'm moe then happy with my sport dog. :wink:


Now that makes an awesome dog, Bob. Real to the bone!!!

Best regards...


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## Carmen van de Kamp (Apr 2, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Male vs. Female - What is your opinion on these statements? And would you say these statements could be true for a GSD but untrue for a different breed such as a Mal or Dutchie? Or are these universal truths? Or is this bullshit?
> 
> 1. Females are a little easier to live with as a house dog


false
no difference here with our dogs (3 males, 2 females) and also not with all the dogs I know from friends


> 2. Females never (or very very seldom) get dominant


false
know some extremely dominant females who will keep even a really dominant male under their rules


> 3. Females want to please their handlers more than males


false
have seen both, subborn females and males with a great will to please....


> 4. Males are tougher, it is extremely rare to find a female who can do serious work or police quality work


false
In my opinion this is something created in the years because most handlers didnt wanted to work with females, mainly because of some of the reasons named here (and then not out of experience, but from hear-say) and because a female gets in heat and then they left her at home for 3 weeks and I see in my own area that it isnt a problem to keep training with a female in heat (not for the females or for the males)


> 5. If you want to compete at the top level of sport buy a male, very very few females can cut it at this level


true/false
it is a problem competing because you have problems with entering a competition when your females is in heat, so that can keep you from competing at the top level (you are never sure if and when you can enter) but I dont think it is because of the quality of the females


> 6. As a general rule, males are harder than females and can take a harder correction


false
also just a difference in type of the dog and in my opinion not related to a male or female....


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