# Victoria Stillwell :) positive ONLY



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ran across these 2 videos...

Victroria Stillwell....
http://animal.discovery.com/videos/its-me-or-the-dog-shock-collars.html

and this guy...Who in my opinion knocks Vitoria Stillwell into the next solar system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_5SPdDz9I


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Joby ...I like that new pic with you wearing the collar. Who handles the transmitter?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Doug Zaga said:


> Joby ...I like that new pic with you wearing the collar. Who handles the transmitter?


there are multiple transmitters, scattered about the population...


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## Chris Keister (Jun 28, 2008)

I'm glad you posted this Joby. I could load the second video so have no idea who the guy is or how he trains.

But Victoria is just as big a wingnut as Milan just at the other end of the spectrum. 
She is too passive on dogs that need a little more assertiveness and Milan just goes way overboard with compilation techniques on dogs that really don't need it. 

Balance and tailoring to the dog behavior and temperament makes a trainer. We all should know not one size fits all. My issue is with both of them they only have one way to train and they do it with every dog.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

I don't see VS training a lot of dogs. Just a bunch of management techniques. I'm all for using rewards and food in training, but she doesn't understand how to do that. imho of course.


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

Victoria Stilwell is a crappy actress turned dog trainer via correspondence course. It wasn't until after she got her Tv show on dog training that she actually got a dog of her own. Hold your breath ... her dog is a lab named Sadie. 

Besides warm glows of hypocracy that is a woman who spouts purely positive dog training meanwhile berating owners and showing up in a dominatrix girdle to client homes I find the few shows I've sat through to be absolutely nothing but management with a side of stupid. I was watching one episode where she advised time outs in the basement for a food raiding, leg humping, biting husky living in a house roughly the size of horse stall.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

No kidding, her shrill screeching makes me want to claw my eyes out.


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## Travis Ragin (Apr 10, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> No kidding, her shrill screeching makes me want to claw my eyes out.


This is actually what I like about her........because she screeches and points her finger directly at the *owners* for any laziness and bad habits that *they* have let go on.

The shows I've seen,that is the *first* thing she does....she doesn't blame the dog.




Not many people like that mirror to be held up to them,it's a lot easier to just blame the dogs genetics......


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Travis Ragin said:


> This is actually what I like about her........because she screeches and points her finger directly at the *owners* for any laziness and bad habits that *they* have let go on.
> 
> The shows I've seen,that is the *first* thing she does....she doesn't blame the dog.
> 
> ...


What professional dog trainer blames the dog??? Maybe I don't want the answer to that. But you can point your finger at the owner without making them feel like crap about themselves and/or their dog. People make mistakes and at least the people that are going to her are looking for help at all (instead of dumping the dog or going to euthanasia).


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## Travis Ragin (Apr 10, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> and this guy...Who in my opinion knocks Vitoria Stillwell into the next solar system.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_5SPdDz9I


_at :23 "off-leash in 5 days or less!"_




Regardless of whether one chooses to believe that or not,the fact that he is positive that he can train the/any *dog*(sight unseen)...shows a clear difference in "training" philosophies between these two anyway.


He tasers,..uh,I mean trains *dogs*.......She concentrates on training *owners.


* 
I don't even see what is the purpose of comparing them?



t


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Travis Ragin said:


> _at :23 "off-leash in 5 days or less!"_
> 
> Regardless of whether one chooses to believe that or not,the fact that he is positive that he can train the/any *dog*(sight unseen)...shows a clear difference in "training" philosophies between these two anyway.
> He tasers,..uh,I mean trains *dogs*.......She concentrates on training *owners.*
> ...


Travis... The "knocking into the next solar system" comment was not meant to compare the training styles of these two people in any sense of the word.

It was meant to address the smackdown he gave her on the issue of debating the use of the ecollar as a training tool...and her insults hurled at people that do use them.

I saw the clip of the episode, and thought her comments about ecollar use was really really really stupid, personally... not once did she address the proper use of the training tool. It was an all out slam against the use of the tool and an open insult to everyone that uses them...

Listen to the intro in this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA45uB2cTjY

"It defies explanation, belief, understanding, how people who call themselves trainers, put shock collars on dogs, especially puppies" (not only puppies but apparently all dogs) "to train them...what is that all about...??? It is disgusting, perverse, and abusive....." 

She was not present when the ecollar was used on the dog, so how does she know anything about it? she doesnt... 

As a person that uses an ecollar, among 100's of others on this board alone that do as well...I found it insulting... 

After watching that, I ran across that guys video...which I thought was a great retort to her *ignorant* comments made on television about the use of the ecollar.

as far as the guys comments about 5 days...found that hard to swallow myself, but did love the video retort to Victoria Stillwell...and agree with him that the use of remote collars is humane if used properly, and his closing statements about it being the best training tool out there if used properly..

It is statements and stances like hers, that will cause the ban of the use of the ecollar, especially when the ignorant people are given such a highly publicized platform to spew their ignorance...

I am sure I am not the only person that has had total strangers fly off into a diatribe of stupidity and ignorance, when they noticed the ecollar on a dog...just happened to me over the weekend at the park, not once, but twice...both from people whos dogs were out of control, and didnt like me heeling the dog in the area they were trying to walk their dogs in, but couldnt, because they had almost no control over them..

so again it was not meant to compare the training styles, it was meant to say that I agree with the guy, and that she is an idiot...basically...at least when it comes to her ignorant views on training tools...


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Personally I liked this ecollar video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl-6T1fk3Os&list=UULFJfSltiXVfv3hHbbDHpww&index=17&feature=plcp



For me to compare trainers I look at how happy and motivated the dogs are, as well as the control on them obviously. Who cares about the tools or methods??? All that matters to me is getting the job done while keeping the dogs' joy for life.

Lots of these "positive only" trainers have dogs that put out such lackluster performances. They can boost all they want about their dogs being trained the way they did, but what good is it when the tails are down and the dog is just going through motions instead of putting his heart into the work and really loving what he's doing (with his partner).

I'd love to see Victoria training her own dog and what their work looks like. I tried looking but couldn't find anything...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

guess i'm lucky over here in Japan ... no one has ever given me any crap when they see an Ecollar on a dog i'm with ... i do get questions, and i give em a straight answer ... "it's a wireless remote control so i can get my dog's attention without talking or using a leash"
....on the navy base i do get Q's ,,, usually they ask if it's a "hunting dog" or a "gun dog" ???
....gave a short seminar to the navy base animal rescue group once and got a lotta flack tho....but no one who gave me the flack had ever used an Ecollar, so i slapped it on each dog hugger and that shut em up fairly quick 

- i do get some looks when a dog is in a muzzle, but usually they look away quickly and distance themselves from me 

don't get her show over here but she sure looks "snappy" in her black outfit 
,,,anyone get a program called "Borstal"....something ... think they filmed in in england ...doggy boot camp type ... that was a riot; but not on anymore....one guy was like a combo of napoleon and a marine drill instructor ... also always wore all black


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jackie Lockard said:


> ... For me to compare trainers I look at how happy and motivated the dogs are, as well as the control on them obviously. ..


Me too. My dogs are marker trained* (and well trained, even if I say so myself), and besides meals, the thing that makes them happiest and most eager and excited is when I say "Ready?" to indicate a training session. 




*ETA
Marker training, of course, is not synonymous with "no corrections."


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

rick smith said:


> ,,,anyone get a program called "Borstal"....something ... think they filmed in in england ...doggy boot camp type ... that was a riot; but not on anymore....one guy was like a combo of napoleon and a marine drill instructor ... also always wore all black


The show was called Dog Borstal, it was quite an entertaining show with three different trainers and styles. Not only did the problem dogs have to go to boot camp, but so did their owners and rough it military style . Lots of vids on you tube... here is the link.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mkcy


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

THANK you Maggie for the link !
it was a good mix of all types of owners....i remember one where the two gay owners couldn't hack the camp conditions .. bailed out, packed up and drove off with their dog without even saying anything to the trainers 

i'll have to watch some of those vids .. wish it was still running here


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

rick smith said:


> THANK you Maggie for the link !
> it was a good mix of all types of owners....i remember one where the two gay owners couldn't hack the camp conditions .. bailed out, packed up and drove off with their dog without even saying anything to the trainers
> 
> i'll have to watch some of those vids .. wish it was still running here


Yeah, there were a few owners I recall who couldn't cut it, plus the odd dog who would make an ass of the trainer. Enjoyable show :-D


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

wanted to watch the Hall of Shame episode of their worst dogs ...
so much for that idea :-(((((((
"not available in your area"......:-((((((((((
........#$#&'%'&%$&%$'%....grrrrrrrr !


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Travis Ragin said:


> This is actually what I like about her........because she screeches and points her finger directly at the *owners* for any laziness and bad habits that *they* have let go on.
> 
> The shows I've seen,that is the *first* thing she does....she doesn't blame the dog.
> 
> ...


Oh believe me, when I do a behavior consult (or really, just about any medical problem that's directly a result of the owner), I'm pretty honest with them on why. But I don't screech and wag my finger and make disgusted, dramatic faces for the camera. That's the difference. ;-)


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: "The shows I've seen,that is the first thing she does....she doesn't blame the dog."
in well over 15 years i have NEVER seen a pet dog that did not have probs caused by owners and that is why it is so hard to train pet owners
--- it's always "my dog does this or that"
- any trainer will learn that and see it immediately

i used to do a lot of finger pointing and straight talking and the result was often that the owners bailed :-(
- so imo that is NOT a good way at all, no matter how correct it is because you will not be helping the dog

and to take it a step further...
the problems were always a result of the TOTAL manner in which the owners lives with their dog, which means a total change in attitude and living style ...... owners usually just want their dog to "learn" how to lay, stay, come and learn cute tricks :-(

the way i have had more success is throw a lot of jokes in to the sessions and make them see how stupid they are being...then start talking about all the lifestyle changes they need while you give them the simple ways to get the dog to pay attention to them and actually learn how to learn

pet training is very frustrating, but when they start to get it it's worth it, and i can usually tell in a week or so if they are gonna get with the program...if it's hopeless i will make them quit and move on :-(
...that's the easy part


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

rick smith said:


> wanted to watch the Hall of Shame episode of their worst dogs ...
> so much for that idea :-(((((((
> "not available in your area"......:-((((((((((
> ........#$#&'%'&%$&%$'%....grrrrrrrr !


Found a wee taster for you,hope it plays. I'll have a dig around and see if I can come up with something :-D.

http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/dog-borstal-episode-10/8nyto5j6


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

When the pvc pipe hits the off switch, the dog absolutely positively understands. Positive only training is cool


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