# What temperament and qualities primarily must have a good SAR dog



## Ivan Rogachev

Hi Sorry for my bad english firstly:|
I am new to the forum 
and I would like to 
question for

your views on this. 
What qualities and temperament 
is requires for a dog to be a really good SAR dog. 
Whether dominant and strong dog would be appropriate for the job or quiet and calm would be better? 
What you looking at puppy and its ancestors when you select it for SAR training and and similar stuff..?
Тhanks


----------



## Sarah Platts

First I would suggest you go to the SAR section and check out some of the other threads on this same subject. 
I think most agree it needs a dog 
-of stable temperament
-a somewhat active, alert dog that wants to get out and do things as opposed to sitting on the couch all day.
- able to adjust quickly to new people or situations
-likes to hunt and use it’s nose
-willing to work in conjunction with humans 
-structurally sound with good hips and elbows and at the appropriate weight for their size
-should not be human aggressive and, ideally, not animal aggressive either

“strong” and “dominate” mean different things to different people. If you are in ring sports it means one thing, in SAR in can mean another. A strong/dominate dog suitable for ring sports may be considered overly aggressive and unsuitable for SAR. I like a dog that is outgoing, confident, curious, and quickly adjusts to new situations. Many breeds were developed for specific purposes. If you select from a dog or breed that contains the genetic traits that are utilized in SAR then things are better. For example, most sight hounds (afgans, greyhounds, etc) do poorly in SAR whereas dogs used in hunting (labs, viszlas, etc) do very well. Also dogs from working backgrounds – GDS, Mals, etc - tend to do well.


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

Thanks for the reply Sarah, I looked through all 15 pages in SAR section  but little confused by fragmented information and released a new topic sorry about that.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Just to add - it was implied but not explicitly stated - nerve strength. Must be solid. You can "condition" a sport dog to the environment of a competition but the real world is pretty unforgiving and dog must take everything in stride.


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

About my case I have experience in practice SAR, in particularay alanches searches and lost people but both dogs that have passed through my hands 
were selected and given to me "on a platter". 
Now for the first time have the opportunity contact with the breeder with my specific requirements and the ability to choose puppy from litter or
from more then one litters. 
I have always preferred and dominant independent self decisions dogs which deal perfectly and without the human next to them. Yes they are often difficult to manage and have a lot of other negative but... 
Just wondering and want to hear opinion of people from this sphere...


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

I have no experience with avalanche, only with Human Remains but, as much of a headache as they are, I chose a somewhat independent puppy who has been a handful but is an excellent worker; even so I have learned he is still capable of cueing on me - though I have no problem with him ranging out and working a larger area on his own.

Of course no matter what you do a puppy is more of a gamble than a young dog. But it is nice having them keyed int work at an early age.


----------



## rick smith

Ivan
you are asking questions before you join the forum. 

introduce yourself first and tell us your background.
those are the rules of the forum

- then people will be able to help you better
- the more background you tell us first, the easier it is to help


----------



## Sarah Platts

Ivan Rogachev said:


> About my case I have experience in practice SAR, in particularay alanches searches and lost people but both dogs that have passed through my hands
> were selected and given to me "on a platter".
> Now for the first time have the opportunity contact with the breeder with my specific requirements and the ability to choose puppy from litter or
> from more then one litters.
> I have always preferred and dominant independent self decisions dogs which deal perfectly and without the human next to them. Yes they are often difficult to manage and have a lot of other negative but...
> Just wondering and want to hear opinion of people from this sphere...


See how more information changes the answers you are looking for? 

I prefer independent self-thinkers. They are not dominate the way sport dogs can be but in matters pertainng to odor, they develop severe attitudes when they are right and I am wrong. I usually end up selecting not the first ranking puppy of a litter but the second or third. But first or last, it's all about the nose..... and the desire to use it.


----------



## Alex Whitelock

In addition to the excellent responses offered, I look for a medium size dog with exceptional work ethic and play drive.
Work ethic - means a dog that will remain focused for a very very long time to solve the task as taught. Not one that tries briefly, then switches to a more interesting distraction. Test by tossing a ball/toy into tall grass, or huge box filled with plastic bottles, or such.
Excellent environmental nerves.....ability to handle stress
and lastly - most have a very high reward system...if a hound, this w/b food. I see dogs with low toy interest just not excellent at this.

hope this helps.

Alex Whitelock
VSARK9


----------



## julie allen

Great nerves, correct structure, strong hunt drive, independent yet biddable,social or neutral at least. I also like one that thinks on its own.


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

rick smith said:


> Ivan
> you are asking questions before you join the forum.
> 
> introduce yourself first and tell us your background.
> those are the rules of the forum
> 
> - then people will be able to help you better
> - the more background you tell us first, the easier it is to help


Sorry did not know that. 
I will now


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

Alex Whitelock said:


> In addition to the excellent responses offered, I look for a medium size dog with exceptional work ethic and play drive.
> Work ethic - means a dog that will remain focused for a very very long time to solve the task as taught. Not one that tries briefly, then switches to a more interesting distraction. Test by tossing a ball/toy into tall grass, or huge box filled with plastic bottles, or such.
> Excellent environmental nerves.....ability to handle stress
> and lastly - most have a very high reward system...if a hound, this w/b food. I see dogs with low toy interest just not excellent at this.
> 
> hope this helps.
> 
> Alex Whitelock
> VSARK9


Thanks Alex julie Sarah Nancy everyone - helps a lot. 
I've never used a toy as a reward and in training 




I've seen this but this practice was not popular here. Is this is the best method in the majority of dogs?


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

If you are dealing with breeders is some don't understand because some are limited to understanding sport that, while a dog with high toy drive is desirable, you want the dog that will HUNT with its nose. A lot of dogs can be crazy for the toy but are not so excited about searching for it if it is not visually there. 

A puppy that naturally brings back a thrown toy and makes eye contact is nice. A dog who wants to go exploring in a new environment. You can take him out hungry and hide some treats (approved by the breeder) in the area and observe if he notices and goes to it then is persistent about trying to get it....


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

Nancy Jocoy said:


> If you are dealing with breeders is some don't understand because some are limited to understanding sport that, while a dog with high toy drive is desirable, you want the dog that will HUNT with its nose. A lot of dogs can be crazy for the toy but are not so excited about searching for it if it is not visually there.
> 
> A puppy that naturally brings back a thrown toy and makes eye contact is nice. A dog who wants to go exploring in a new environment. You can take him out hungry and hide some treats (approved by the breeder) in the area and observe if he notices and goes to it then is persistent about trying to get it....


Thanks Nancy these are great tips will definitely try it out.


----------



## Jim Delbridge

Above all you want a puppy/dog that is rulled by its nose such that it just can't help itself if it picks up the scent you desire it to find. Having ball or tug drive built in means you have a ready-made marker to tell the dog it did good.
After that you need to test for a temperment that you can work with including noise, visual, surface, and tunnel sensitivity, i.e. it won't freak out at an active construction site where engines are backfiring and things are flying around. It will go down under a house to seek out that elusive scent without you there to hold its paw.
The downside is the more focused and intense dog your find and nurture, the more control you have to have to ensure its safety when it wants to cross the autobahn to find that body on the other side.
Picking one of the known breeds sight unseen is no insurance that you'll have good stock as there are many of the mals, GSDs, labs, etc that could not do the job you want. It always behooves you to go test the puppies you are considering or else you have no one to complain to when the developing dog has issues you didn't even consider.

If you've been lucky to have been given two really great dogs, the odds are that a challenge is waiting to greet you with the next dog. I tend to think it's better for the handler to have a challenging dog first so they can appeciate the natural when it comes on the scene. What happens more often is someone gets a really great dog that learns the job despite them and the handler develops the illusion that they are a great trainer. Then the typical dog curses them with either humility, or as just as often happen, the handler goes through a string of dogs, giving the dropouts to others, blaming the dogs rather than their lacks of skills. Even with a decent handler and a decent dog, life can still deal you a hand such that the end dog team just doesn't mesh. Such is life.


Jim Delbridge


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

Very well said.
The new dog will definitely GSD old love doesn`t rust.
About stuff like construction site, autobahn and similar probably whole life will not see such things. I live in the high mountain and it will be distraction by the tree, rivers, wild animals and rarely by misguided tourists.
If it develop and do a good job of search - good if not it will remain a pet
surrounded with all the love of family. I'm not obsessed at all costs to find 
this which will do a perfect job. Just do research and try to make a good choice with my next dog.


----------



## chandan singh

Ivan Rogachev said:


> Hi Sorry for my bad english firstly:|
> I am new to the forum
> and I would like to
> question for
> 
> your views on this.
> What qualities and temperament
> is requires for a dog to be a really good SAR dog.
> Whether dominant and strong dog would be appropriate for the job or quiet and calm would be better?
> What you looking at puppy and its ancestors when you select it for SAR training and and similar stuff..?
> Тhanks


Hard operating, dedicated, well socialized with individuals, strong, sensible and an honest nose. He should be intelligent, agile, have sensible balance and powerful legs for dig, jumping or rise. However, beside correct coaching, there ar specific qualities an honest SAR dog has to faithfully aid his human handler. Like individuals, some dogs aren’t suited to rescue work.


----------



## Sarah Platts

chandan singh said:


> Hard operating, dedicated, well socialized with individuals, strong, sensible and an honest nose. He should be intelligent, agile, have sensible balance and powerful legs for dig, jumping or rise. However, beside correct coaching, there ar specific qualities an honest SAR dog has to faithfully aid his human handler. Like individuals, some dogs aren’t suited to rescue work.


Here's a bit of the problem. Alot of these qualities will not manifest themselves in a puppy which is what the OP is looking at. These are things that age and maturity bring in. When selecting a puppy, you work off a different set of criteria because at 8-10 weeks old they don't exhibit half of the above. I would recommend the OP take along someone who has helped select his original dogs.


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

You helps me a lot with all the opinions. Thanks for all attention to me
That's my problem - the choice. then comes the easy part.. . but I just found the internet and GSD forums for better or worse wii see 
Speaking of size... 
just to show some of SAR dogs they was worked in our mountain rescue service in the 70s. 
dog at the feet of the man with glasses on hat(my father) was my first GSD as I was a kid
He was about 55 cm and 30 kg light very fast dodgy and excellent working. 


how to screenshot on windows 7


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Very nice. It's "in the family"


----------



## Sarah Platts

The biggest thing outside the desire to use the nose is picking from a line that has good structure health: feet, legs, shoulders, hips, etc. Nothing breaks the heart faster to spend a couple of years training and then have to early retire a dog due to physical issues.

Good Luck.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Sarah Platts said:


> The biggest thing outside the desire to use the nose is picking from a line that has good structure health: feet, legs, shoulders, hips, etc. Nothing breaks the heart faster to spend a couple of years training and then have to early retire a dog due to physical issues.
> 
> Good Luck.


Been there, done that (severe hip dysplasia on an almost certified dog) and swore I would never get another puppy .....well........I got another puppy. Knock on wood. 2.5 years no issues but have not done the x-rays.


----------



## Meg O'Donovan

Ivan Rogachev said:


> Thanks Alex julie Sarah Nancy everyone - helps a lot.
> I've never used a toy as a reward and in training
> I've seen this but this practice was not popular here. Is this is the best method in the majority of dogs?


Hi Ivan, 
How do you encourage/pay the dogs for their work? Praise, food, or play? Or?

I look forward to reading of your mountain searches and training. I live in a small, rural community in Western Canada. There is plenty of wilderness/forest/mountains around us, and it is a great place to train.

Are your lost people mainly hunters, skiers, shepherds, old people, children?

The photo was very nice. Thanks for uploading it.


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

Sarah Platts, Nancy Jocoy


Happened so that missed to have generations of wonderful dogs that we had and now physical health and mostly dysplasia are my biggest concern for a new puppy. The dog in my avatar was heavy type and very large dog but had no such problems until his last day, and lived 14 years. Consider the possibility of taking a dog from Russia rumor has it that there is less affected...


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Hi Ivan,
> How do you encourage/pay the dogs for their work? Praise, food, or play? Or?
> 
> I look forward to reading of your mountain searches and training. I live in a small, rural community in Western Canada. There is plenty of wilderness/forest/mountains around us, and it is a great place to train.
> 
> Are your lost people mainly hunters, skiers, shepherds, old people, children?
> 
> The photo was very nice. Thanks for uploading it.


Hi Meg, 
mostly people from earthquakes and avalanches lost tourists and children in the mountains



Practice encourage left to depends on the dog handler views. Most use food and praise with petting and playing. 
in my case food as a reward I use it only in the first months, then it is fighting game kissing and stuff  a relationship man - dog and love and joy of working together. I even thought occasionally that they understand their work better than us and do it for people in need of their help not for us.
I was lucky to have a unique dogs and relationship with them.


----------



## Ivan Rogachev

Ivan Rogachev said:


> Sarah Platts, Nancy Jocoy
> 
> 
> Happened so that missed to have generations of wonderful dogs that we had and now physical health and mostly dysplasia are my biggest concern for a new puppy. The dog in my avatar was heavy type and very large dog but had no such problems until his last day, and lived 14 years. Consider the possibility of taking a dog from Russia rumor has it that there is less affected...


This is the dog I was talking about. The man is tall 1.90cm (6.25feet) if you help to assess the size


----------

