# Reporting breeder to AKC to get papers?



## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Has anyone ever had to report a breeder to the AKC? I bought a pup nearly a year ago and had such a bad experience with them. I've put off emailing the breeder for my dog's papers until now (he turns a year old in less than a month). I've heard stories that other people have had to seriously harass the breeder to mail out the papers.

I have all the emails from three years back and photos of puppies from the breeder's kennel. If I end up having to report them, is it pretty easy to get the papers then? Anyone have advice in dealing with the AKC in this matter?


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## Courtney DuCharme (Feb 5, 2011)

My first Boxer I had to harrass the breeder about her papers- got them when she was 11 months old. Now if you don't have the paperwork in hand...... unless I know you well or you come highly recommended by someone I know well..... I'd pay you for a non papered dog- I'll pay you the differance when the papers are ready for me to pick up. Haven't had to deal with papers not in hand though since Izzi. So not sure how common it is to have to wait.

Sorry re read your post- you said you put off emailing the breeder about it til now...... have you called, talked to, etc the breeder since you got the dog? Maybe they just forgot or lost your contact # and have been waiting for you to contact them (most likely forgot that too at this point)


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Apparently it's common for these people to keep dogs in bad condition (had no idea until I got there and spoke to other people afterwards) and be horrible about the paperwork. I'm not interested in selling the dog ( if I was I wouldn't care about the papers).

Other people are telling me that I can't report them to the AKC, but they saw the condition the puppy was in when I brought him home and there might be something I could do with that.

No, I stayed with the breeder several days when I picked up the pup. They were good to me for the first few and then the last day and a half I got treated like shit. I haven't kept in touch with them and I didn't want anything more to do with them, ever. Kinda a shame they sold a really good dog.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Apparently it's common for these people to keep dogs in bad condition (had no idea until I got there and spoke to other people afterwards) and be horrible about the paperwork. I'm not interested in selling the dog ( if I was I wouldn't care about the papers).
> 
> Other people are telling me that I can't report them to the AKC, but they saw the condition the puppy was in when I brought him home and there might be something I could do with that.
> 
> No, I stayed with the breeder several days when I picked up the pup. They were good to me for the first few and then the last day and a half I got treated like shit. I haven't kept in touch with them and I didn't want anything more to do with them, ever. Kinda a shame they sold a really good dog.


Wow, they let you have free room and board for several days..that part sounds pretty nice. After staying with them and spending time with the puppies you purchased your puppy "even though" it was in bad condition? 

I would suggest sending them some pixs and an update of your puppy and your contace information and asking nicely about the paperwork.


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## Courtney DuCharme (Feb 5, 2011)

I didn't figure you wanted to sell him- he's your SchH lab isn't he?

I'd recontact the breeder about getting the papers- I don't believe AKC would step in unless there were alot of FORMAL complaints on them about this. And quite frankly- if I worked at AKC and you contacted me to complain, and had never contacted the breeder again- I probly wouldn't take the complain to seriously. And I'd be looking at my moutain of work to do and just tell you to try and contact the breeder yourself first- doument everytime, then call back in a couple months if you don't have them. You waited this long- the late fee for Registaring is just as much your fault as the breeders.

My advice- if you want the papers- you email, call- harrass them. They don't have to be your friends- they just have to send you the papers. Was there a contract with the dog? If so- you can use that in small claims if they don't comply. If not...... make them dread the phne ringing so much that you get your papers in the mail. But don't piss them off so much that they arrive in pieces.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Courtney DuCharme said:


> I didn't figure you wanted to sell him- he's your SchH lab isn't he?
> 
> I'd recontact the breeder about getting the papers- I don't believe AKC would step in unless there were alot of FORMAL complaints on them about this. And quite frankly- if I worked at AKC and you contacted me to complain, and had never contacted the breeder again- I probly wouldn't take the complain to seriously. And I'd be looking at my moutain of work to do and just tell you to try and contact the breeder yourself first- doument everytime, then call back in a couple months if you don't have them. You waited this long- the late fee for Registaring is just as much your fault as the breeders.
> 
> My advice- if you want the papers- you email, call- harrass them. They don't have to be your friends- they just have to send you the papers. Was there a contract with the dog? If so- you can use that in small claims if they don't comply. If not...... make them dread the phne ringing so much that you get your papers in the mail. But don't piss them off so much that they arrive in pieces.



I never said that I wasn't going to contact them ever again and just go off to the AKC in a tantrum about it. I have been emailing them with no replies, and I will continue to email. I'm asking if it's possible to get the AKC involved in this, because I heard that it is (because if the litter registration isn't going to the puppies where are they going?).

Like I said, everything was fantastic the first few days and then it went south. They were friendly and hospitable. I'm not out to badmouth anyone; I don't and never plan to tell people where the pup came from. I'm looking to see what else can be done to get the papers I paid for and if anyone has had this happen before.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

call them....

akc does not care if you think they keep the dogs in poor conditions...not their business..

what does your contract say about paperwork?


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## Courtney DuCharme (Feb 5, 2011)

With Izzi's breeder I emailed them once or twice a month at first... then called/emailed several times a month, then they got weekly emails...... then bi-weekly
I got the papers when it was bi weekly email & a phone call...... and a letter a friend typed up that worked at a law firm..... those headers on paper tend to freak some people out. 

I never contacted AKC over it- I took the pup with out papers ready to go, I figure- it's up to me to contact & get them. Izzi was mainly a pet- and in the long run- she was worth way more to me than I paid for her (which was $500 in '92).


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I never give papers at the time of the sale....they all bring checks up here where there aren't any banks. I hat the paper work but have been pretty good about it lately. I also tell them not to start bugging me in a weel, I will get to them but I haven't maied them in yet for starters. Write them a letter without your name on the return. They may not even have the same email address. Show up in person if possible. Don't wait to long because if they get out of breeding they won't care what you do.

Why did things go south? Your fault or theirs.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

while you were staying with them? did you voice your opinion as to how you thought they should house or care for their dogs? basically insulting them in their own place while you were a guest? if so, that may be why things went south, and they were not very nice to you...


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> did you voice your opinion as to how you thought they should house or care for their dogs? basically insulting them in their own place while you were a guest? if so, that may be why things went south, and they were not very nice to you...


As a matter of fact it was the exact opposite. If you need to know the details Joby of how things went bad you can PM me. I'm not completely ignorant and they were putting me up for free while I was stuck out there (truck needed repairs).

The place doesn't have a phone on their site, nor was I able to get it during the purchase of the dog. I asked for it several times but they would call me on an unlisted number. Otherwise I would be calling. I was told they would mail papers and contract and they didn't. The place I picked up from was not the actual breeder, but a business partner, therefore everything was to be mailed. No contract and no papers. 



Don you should get cash not checks.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Don you should get cash not checks.


LOL!!!

Ok, so you can tell Don that but just about anyone can see "SHADY" in what you just said. You picked the dog up through a 3rd party - ever cross your mind that maybe the dog you bought doesn't even have papers, and may not even be out of the litter you thought you were buying from? You have zero proof they sold you the dog you were supposed to get.

So, I wouldn't hold my breath on the papers if the dog can even be registered. Lesson learned, right?


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> You picked the dog up through a 3rd party - ever cross your mind that maybe the dog you bought doesn't even have papers, and may not even be out of the litter you thought you were buying from? You have zero proof they sold you the dog you were supposed to get.
> 
> So, I wouldn't hold my breath on the papers if the dog can even be registered. Lesson learned, right?



What makes that different from any other litter? Unless you're there for the mating and whelping and living in the kennels with the litter what does any buyer actually know?

For the record, I, and many other people on this forum, know the owner of the stud. Who knows if she's lying or not, but again, what makes that different from any other litter of dogs. Should I start demanding doggy porn on youtube for every puppy I'm looking at buying?


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> What makes that different from any other litter? Unless you're there for the mating and whelping and living in the kennels with the litter what does any buyer actually know?
> 
> For the record, I, and many other people on this forum, know the owner of the stud. Who knows if she's lying or not, but again, what makes that different from any other litter of dogs. Should I start demanding doggy porn on youtube for every puppy I'm looking at buying?


No, but you should at least be able to trust the person enough to ship you a puppy or go pick it up yourself AT THEIR PLACE - not some 3rd party...doesn't that just scream "WTF" to you? Does to me. Don't think I'd be giving out money to someone without a great reputation (you stated they don't) or picking it up myself.
Pretty sure even our folks like Mike Suttle will let you come out to their facilities, not broker through a 3rd party.

You're worried about papers when you should be more concerned that you might have gotten ripped off being sold something that could very well be not what you paid for. 

Just so much screams that you got ripped and the dog either doesn't have papers, or if he does you're never going to get them. No phone contact, only an unlisted number? SHADY

Not being a dick but I'd chalk it up to a lesson learned if you can't harass them into sending the papers, if they even have them.

It's kind of like reading on pedigree database - people sent money to "breeders" overseas and then wonder why the dog never showed up after they wired the money...duh?

](*,)


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

I spoke to several people that bought from previous litters, they were happy with their dogs and the experience. It wasn't until AFTER that I started to discover that the non-dog side of the breeders weren't up to par (ie, condition of puppies, paperwork situation, ect). I did not pick up from a third party and the so-called "third party" gave me their phone number readily (and since I've bought new phones since then I no longer have it). The pups weren't brokered, at least not by my definition. 

The phone number issue (I totally agree it's SHADY!) and all these other issues didn't come up until during or after my trip. So whatever you think of me/my dog...whatever. In the end I got a good dog and if I don't have papers on him all it means is that we can't compete beyond club level. And honestly I don't want the kennel's name on my dog anyway. So I'm not going to lose sleep over it either way. Just here for information about AKC.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Didn't say I thought anything of you or your dog, whatever the circumstance. I'm just being realistic, nothing personal, there's just more people out to scam the world these days. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...it might be a duck?

Honestly, you'd probably have better luck with consumer reporting like RipOff report or the BBB, I really doubt the AKC will involve itself. All it takes since you have no contract, is for them to say "we sold her an unregistered puppy." Case closed. Nothing in writing so you're pretty much hosed unless they want to give it to you.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Didn't say I thought anything of you or your dog, whatever the circumstance. I'm just being realistic, nothing personal, there's just more people out to scam the world these days. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...it might be a duck?
> 
> Honestly, you'd probably have better luck with consumer reporting like RipOff report or the BBB, I really doubt the AKC will involve itself. All it takes since you have no contract, is for them to say "we sold her an unregistered puppy." Case closed. Nothing in writing so you're pretty much hosed unless they want to give it to you.


I have all the emails detailing exactly which puppy I was paying for. There's quite a few of us going back and forth, particularly that I liked the stud they were using (that's what originally attracted me to these breedings).

I get where you're coming from.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

was just fishing for info, no NEED to know..
sounds like you are probably screwed....

one phone call to the AKC would answer your question, though...


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## Courtney DuCharme (Feb 5, 2011)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Has anyone ever had to report a breeder to the AKC? I bought a pup nearly a year ago and had such a bad experience with them. *I've put off emailing the breeder for my dog's papers until now (he turns a year old in less than a month).* I've heard stories that other people have had to seriously harass the breeder to mail out the papers.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Courtney DuCharme said:


> Jackie Lockard said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ever had to report a breeder to the AKC? I bought a pup nearly a year ago and had such a bad experience with them. *I've put off emailing the breeder for my dog's papers until now (he turns a year old in less than a month).* I've heard stories that other people have had to seriously harass the breeder to mail out the papers.
> ...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

one phone call to AKC will answer your question. 

I will call for you if there is some major reason you do not want to call them. PM me the details...:-$

As far as I know there are no AKC officials that post here....


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> one phone call to AKC will answer your question.
> 
> I will call for you if there is some major reason you do not want to call them. PM me the details...:-$
> 
> As far as I know there are no AKC officials that post here....


lol I heard you the first time. I tried to call them earlier but office was closed. I'll be calling again tomorrow don't fret. I can even let you know what they say. I wish I could remember who told me they had this issue and that the AKC helped resolve it. (Since when do they resolve anything?)


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> lol I heard you the first time. I tried to call them earlier but office was closed. I'll be calling again tomorrow don't fret. I can even let you know what they say. I wish I could remember who told me they had this issue and that the AKC helped resolve it. (Since when do they resolve anything?)


I seriously wish you luck resolving the problem, but my guess is you are screwed...even if they contact the breeder on your behalf...

does your correspondence with the breeder show that he agreed to issue you papers? if not then I would bet money that you are screwed, that is if the breeder actually does not want to give you the papers..which might not be the issue here, hard to say with the cloak and dagger stuff...

this type of thing is hard enough to resolve even with a contact, without a contract will most likely not be resolved if they just refuse to give you the papers...know any lawyers, if so have them send a registered letter, might scare em...


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> I seriously wish you luck resolving the problem, but my guess is you are screwed...even if they contact the breeder on your behalf...
> 
> does your correspondence with the breeder show that he agreed to issue you papers? if not then I would bet money that you are screwed, that is if the breeder actually does not want to give you the papers..which might not be the issue here, hard to say with the cloak and dagger stuff...
> 
> this type of thing is hard enough to resolve even with a contact, without a contract will most likely not be resolved if they just refuse to give you the papers...know any lawyers, if so have them send a registered letter, might scare em...



Lucky for me the emails tell everything about the puppy I was buying (parents, dates, pedigree, ect) and what my intentions were with the dog as well as what was included with the puppy (guarantees, ect). They have done this to other people and needed to be harassed into sending papers, so hopefully with enough persistence I'll get the papers as well.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Lucky for me the emails tell everything about the puppy I was buying (parents, dates, pedigree, ect) and what my intentions were with the dog as well as what was *included with the puppy (guarantees, ect).* They have done this to other people and needed to be harassed into sending papers, so hopefully with enough persistence I'll get the papers as well.


including registration papers? 

regardless give it a shot...or befriend a lab breeder and get them to give you a blue slip from a litter about the same age...


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> including registration papers?
> 
> regardless give it a shot...or befriend a lab breeder and get them to give you a blue slip from a litter about the same age...


This is about my Mali pup. Labby is waaaay over a year (no matter what he tells you).

So, any Mali breeders around here have decent lines? =;

Yes, registration included.


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## Carlos Machado (Dec 28, 2008)

I had a problem getting papers in the early 90's the breeder moved but he did register the litter so I got my papers from the CKC I just had to pay to register my dog it was easy. I believe the AKC would do the same thing as long as the litter is registered if not than you may have an uphill battle.


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