# Symptoms of an ACL injury.



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I had my 9 year old partner out today and while warming him up before doing some OB he began favoring his right rear leg . He will walk on it lightly for a few steps then carry it for a few . He acts no different then usual , no other signs he's in pain other then the way he's walking. Just before he started limping I had let him jog around with his kong and he diffenately had a very pronounced bunny hop going that I haven't seen before . I manipulated both of his rear legs and felt around and he gave no reaction to pain either.

He hasn't lost a step up until now . I've had him since the age of 2 years and I've always suspected possible hip issues because his rear legs would often seem to run out from under him when he made a fast tight turn . His hips were xrayed when I got him and were good . He never had a problem catching badguys or jumping things so I just chalked it up to him being clumbsy. This has gone on for years and never got worse or effected his work .

Currently only 1 of our guys has had ACL issues and he's on a much needed vacation and I don't want to bother him . 

I'm praying he just pulled something and he's now at home resting . If he's still limping tommorow I'm going to bring him into the vet. I'm hoping I could get some feed back on this since all of got is time to think about this . 

I know this could be any number of things but in general; Does this sound typical of an ACL injury or more like a hip related problem?


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## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

My two cents - not worth much - but I'm thinking hip....
ACL usually involves some kind of fast movement or turn, a yelp, then total non weight bearing for a period of time - in my experience anyway....bunny hopping - I think hip - arthritis maybe???
X-rays are in your future I'm thinking


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hoping for the best!


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Jim, 
Have them xray his spine, spondylosis makes them bunny hop. Your description is spot on with the symptoms my Marek displayed. Does his leg look like he's "carrying it in stride" ? Know what i'm trying to describe?


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

You're probably right . I just talked to another handler whose first K9 had very similiar symptoms and it was arthritis. If it doesn't go away by tomorrow I'll for sure get x-rays. I'm still hoping it's a pulled muscle or something minor like that.

It sure came on fast and out of nowhere.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Jim, my Bentley did the same thing and it was ACL. Best to get him checked. He was around the same age. He's 11 now and he takes it all in stride.


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## R Janssen (Jul 25, 2008)

Hope everything will be fine with your partner Jim!

I'm don't have much medical experience, but in a Documentary i posted 2 day's ago 
There is a simple test done by the Vet to see if the dog has any spinal problems (at 11:10-11:40) 
The dog needs to reset the pawn to its normal position within 5 seconds.

http://www.swr.de/betrifft/schaefer...ideo/gp1=4658760/nid=98466/1jk4cx5/index.html

(At 10:09 you can see the actual dog limping...)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jim, sure hope it's nothing serious. As a trainer, I would be concerned. To be practical, you know what lies ahead in the not too distant future. 

DFrost


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks for everyones' support . 

I took him to the U of M Hospital and it's a partial ACL tear . 2-3 weeks rest plus some anti inflamatories and something else . Then they will look at him again to see how it's going . 

Not great but could be worse . David , I know what your saying . I thought our career might be over yesterday . I've always took this job 1 day at a time . I've learned this job can throw alot at you and it could be over in the blink of an eye . 

I'm going to take good care of him and try my best to help him recover . Funny thing is I stopped by the kennel and ended up catching a dog today and reaggravating the same injury in one of my knees . So I know what he's going through . 

I know surgery is in my future I'll do my best to avoid that with Bingo .


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Same thing here with my dog, it took 3 months for him to heal, just in time for my trial last weekend, you can tell also by the way he sits or lay down, my dog sits or lay down with the bad leg spread out more, I was giving him anti imflamatoried drug like you and the vet also told me to do ice/heat twice a day, glucosamine tablets, stretching excercise everyday, absolutely no running and by the grace of the good god he heal just in time for the trial, actually even at 2 weeks before the trial I started to train again and everytime after training he started to limp a little bit at night after training, I let him rest for 3 days and train again and he still limped but much less and the last week, 2 days before the trial he stop limping completetly after training, and I trial him last week 2 days in a row and he is back in full (-:, just take your time with the surgery, my vet said if it was small tear it could just heal itself and so she was right. Good luck.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I think Bentley's was a little more than a small tear. He does sit and lay with ease. When he first did it he had a very small limp right after it happened. The next day he wouldn't put any weight on it at all. He took his meds and seemed much better. The rest did him good.I didn't train him at all for about eight months. He was nine when it happened. He's eleven now and retired. I don't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. That's retirement right? Surgery isn't always the best for these. A friend of mine had the same injury with her dog but much worse. Surgery was required for him. He still has the bunny hop.

When Bentley was better we trialed in ASR-1 and he finished in second over all. Had to give schutzhund up because of the hurdle and A- frame. I will still track him from time to time and he always goes to training and he'll get his bite and show off the sleeve to EVERYBODY. He's happy that is important to him and me.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Khoi , Jerry ,

I'm glad to hear your dogs recovered from this well . It sounds like Bingo's injury isn't quite as bad as your dogs (at least I hope) .

He's actually walking better , still a noticable limp though but he can put weight on it walking and isn't lifting it anymore , sitting or laying down don't seem to be effected . 

I brought up my concerns about his hips . The vet stated that when she worked his hips they were very flexible with no noticable pain from Bingo . She felt his hips were in very good shape , so that's good news . 

Everything looked good until she moved his knee a certain way and you could see him react slightly to it and his leg quiverred some . 

I was planning on trying to qualify to go to Nationals one last time with him but that's out of the question . I won't do hurdles or a frame anymore. Even though it sounds like he would be able to do them when he's done healing . I can still certify with that loss of points but my scores won't be up with the big dogs . He looks and acts much younger then his age . This is the first thing to come along and slow him down .

Thanks to everyone for the information and support . I'm going to start researching now to see if I can help more with his rehabilitation . From the dogs I've seen in the past here with small ACL tears it seems like some of them tore worse later or the other ACL went out compensating . I don't want that to happen .


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jim, I know it's a bit cold up there but is there anywhere you can swim him? It's great for rehab.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Yep ,

I swim him often during the summer . I think that is part of what has kept him in such good shape up until now . There's a great lake in the city I take him to . He will actually swim underwater to retreive things . I will probably start next week since the vet gave the ok for it .

Our head trainer's last dog(just retired at about 12 years old) had hip dysplasia so bad the Vets said he would only last about 2 years . The dog tested out so well he thought it would be worth the short time he'd have with him . He took good care of Shadow and swam him more then anyone I know . Dog worked a long time and walks better then most GSD's his age .


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Good luck Jim. Hopefully it will heal quick. I have to take Ichilles to the vet tomorrow for him limping on his right front pretty bad. I don't know whats going on here lately. ](*,)


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Jim, I know it's a bit cold up there but is there anywhere you can swim him? It's great for rehab.


I did that with my dog too 3 times a week in the last month before the trial, I also gave him 1 tablespoon of apple cider vinegar in his food everyday, I'm not sure if it does anything but I was desperated, I would try anything for him to heal before the trial and not have to do surgery, so from anti imflamotory drug, heat/cold, stretching, apple cider vinegar, guocosamine, swimming and rest is what fixed my dog, if you think your dog injury is not as bad then maybe rest is what he needs, also if they gave him pain killer, be sure that it is not the pain killer that makes him feels good and not limping again but because he was healling for real.
Good luck.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

Jim, just wishing Bingo a quick recovery, had the opportunity to catch you two on K9 cop show...I'd say you both did the unit proud, although the big elephant guy that Bingo bit in the belly wasn't to thrilled with him.\\/ ...not sure if it would help Bingo, but we had a FR3 dog, Racky, the day before the start of a trial he went lame...the judge from France told us about arneca montana, got it at the health food store, gave him a dose every 6 hours, and Racky went on to compete in the trial that weekend-no signs of injury.(it worked out it was 2 days later)

and thanks again for letting us see you guys on the show, it has got to be hard having cameras follow you all shift.8-[


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks folks for all the advice . I'm going to check it all out and give it a try . The glucosamine I've been meaning to use for some time now but never got around to it . Wish I would have started before he got hurt . 

Thanks Mo , I got to give the big badguy credit he took it better then most . At the hospital he told me to tell Bingo he was sorry , that he's a good dog and he loved him . He then asked for some pain medication . He's quite proud of Bingo and has shown some Officers his stomach and how it got that way . He's actually a nice guy when he's not drunk . 

It wasn't fun having the crew along though they were awesome people . Luckily they didn't ride with my shift much because we were the only overlap shift and they didn't know if anyone would be there for work if they showed up . The other shifts require a K9 to be working to ensure 24 hour coverage .

Jay , I'm pulling for you guys . Hopefully it's nothing . Let us know how it goes . It sounds like you guys have plenty of help to get him back on track if it is something so your dog can't be in better hands . Good Luck .


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thunder has moderate HD. At 5+ yrs old he has no signs but I'm going to start him on the Adequin (ssp) shots as a preventitive. I've heard great things about it.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I'll help with Bob's spelling so folks can research it---Adequan. This is a series of 8 injections with follow-up maintenance injections as needed. I've used it with great results along with 2000 mg of Ester C and a good glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, Maganese, Yucca, Bromelain oral supplement. Couple of my herding buddies have gotten the Adequan from their vets and its just as effective given subcutaneously as IM. So you can do it yourself if you are comfortable with injections. Hoping for the best for all the dogs. 


Terrasita


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