# stomach twisting and bloat ?



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

This whole stomach twisting and bloat stuff. A while back someone on here posted an article about dogs stomachs. I think it was about how there stomachs are kinda like an accordion and feeding dogs like most people do or like they tell you on the back of a dog food bag may actually be a bit contributing factor to twisting and bloat. Something about how you would be better off feeding your dog much larger amounts of food less often. Such as 10 percent of their weight 2 or 3 times a week. Something about muscles that hold the stomach in place not being used if you don’t feed like this? Most people would find this cruel because in their mind dogs are little people and need daily feedings and snacks and treats. But from a few things I have learned feeding large quantity less often is actually what I believe to be the better way and a smaller meal every day is cruel because you are just keeping your dog in a constant state of being hungry. 
So my question is does anyone have any further info regarding feeding larger less often really decreases the chances of twisting and bloat. Or what are your opinions on this?


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## Rashae Lamar (Feb 19, 2011)

Hey chris I know with my MWD I feed him twice a day but he only gets one cup a meal. The chance of bloat are still high with deep chested dogs and dogs that eat their food really fast. So to slow them down we us the break-fast bowls, bloat can happen if the wind blows the wrong way. To decrease the chance of that you can get your dog pexied ( gastropexied )


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

interesting viewpoint..are you considering switching to this style of feeding ?
i never read the article you referred to, but would like to if you find it.

you will probably have to look far and wide to find a dog owner who doesn't feed their dog on a daily 2/3 squares basis; hard to even find the owners who will fast a dog periodically, but they are out there 
- so you will probably get very little data to go on if you are considering feeding 2-3 times a week

regarding the bloat issue...
it is "almost" agreed upon that the cause is unknown 
- a few studies have been done; lots of theories of course
- since it seems to happen a LOT more to the big breeds, and mostly to domestic dogs, my opinion is it is based on weird breeding (organs that don't match up well to the cavity they reside in)..and that is just a wild assed guess based on zero scientific data 

but if you look at mammals in general, they DON'T get three squares and GORGE themselves whenever they get a chance for big meal, so if you go by human evals, they should be bloating like hell all the time, but they seem to handle it just fine 
- wild canines will overeat too just to carry food back for pups
- lots of other hard data available related to that kind of binge eating

maybe the horse people might have some insight ... heard they (the horses) will stuff themselves if given the chance ,,,, but i'm unfamiliar with equine bloat and horses in general

keeping a dog a bit hungry does have some advantages of course 
- but being a genetically over-manipulated species, hard to tell where the problem came from and who is to blame for the problems the bigger breeds seem to have
- and fwiw, i've seen plenty of small dogs running around with big full guts that look like they should roll over and bloat at any time...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

btw, i don't agree eating fast in itself is a cause of bloat even tho it might seem logical
- could cite MANY reasons, especially if you include all breeds


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

I know there are vets on this forum that can jump in, but I was always told quite the opposite! After my dog made it through surgery after twisting my vet told me to never feed him a large meal ever.

He explained it like this...a dogs stomach is like a pendulum and when it has too much in it, whether food or water (in my case) the weight and pressure cause it to turn over- the torsion or "twist".

My GSD was only 1 1/2 when this happened, so for the next 12 years, I fed small meals (1 1/2 cup) twice a day. I also soak kibble before feeding, and no one moves for at least 4-6 hours after eating. If we have to train, we don't eat until after.

So far, so good with my over the top bloat fear, but it is beyond terrifying if you actually go through it. I was lucky I knew what was happening and to get to a vet immediately.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

My dogs definitely skip a day or few here and there. They do get larger portions when they do eat but I would not say I adopted this feeding method fully. My understanding is that activity after eating may increase the chances of a problem. So if you only feed them small amounts they will still run and jump around. If you don’t feed them for 3 days then let them eat till they are full they will then go take a nap. I only power feed with raw, I believe this method to really be meant for a raw based diet. I think the characteristics of kibble are too unpredictable to power feed. To me the feeding method I mentioned does make logical sense, but we tend to humanize dogs a bit. I think everyone feeds their dogs so often because it says so on the back of the bag. Like fish food. The best tanks I have ever seen the fish are feed once or twice a week. 
I wonder how many wolves are dying of bloat?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Im thinking to myself. I think? I think bloat and spinning is more likely after a dog eats, correct? So if you feed a dog 3 times a day 7 days a week that’s 21 feedings a week(what a pain in the a**) but if you feed 3 times a week that’s 3 feedings a week (im a pretty fart smella) if what I am saying is right you are reducing the chances of your dog bloating or spinning by about a bazillion percent buy doing this alone. AND this does not even take into consideration if in fact feeding larger amounts helps reduce the problems by conditioning the stomach in any way or that the dog is more likely to go lay down? 

I will find it very unlikely that anyone can convince me there is any performance based issues with a dog not being feed daily compared to a few times a week. If anything I believe the opposite


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I know the article you speak of. I have met the author in person some years ago. One time when I am home I will pm you.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I have had a lot of dogs and never had one bloat but have heard of other airedales doing it. I feed 24/7. There are 10 feeders that hold 40 lbs ea. in the yards. They ha=ve access to food all the time and NBEVER eat much at once or wolf their food down. They get 5 to 10 pieces of kibble in their mouth and go lay down and spit it out and eat it a piece at a time. They never gorge.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I know the article you speak of. I have met the author in person some years ago. One time when I am home I will pm you.


Tnx, its on here someplace I just cant find it


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I am pretty sure the article you were referring to was by Mogens Eliasen. I have sniffed around a couple of his sites for it, but can't find it. I checked some of the free articles, but his sites are not super current or easy to navigate. I think he wants you to buy some e-book on raw feeding now.

Feel free to do your own searching.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I am pretty sure the article you were referring to was by Mogens Eliasen. I have sniffed around a couple of his sites for it, but can't find it. I checked some of the free articles, but his sites are not super current or easy to navigate. I think he wants you to buy some e-book on raw feeding now.
> 
> Feel free to do your own searching.


Thanks for the effort :roll:


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## kerry engels (Nov 7, 2010)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I know the article you speak of. I have met the author in person some years ago. One time when I am home I will pm you.


 
Your pics are awesome!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I seem to remember this article quite a while ago but I likewise could not find it. I remember seeing something to the effect that to get the "full effect" of the stomach acid, the stomach had to be very full. I do not recall the details, but I remember thinking at the time that guessing this person has no actual knowledge of anatomy or physiology of a dog's stomach.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/feeding-frequency-gorging-16733/

I knew this all sounded familiar...


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/feeding-frequency-gorging-16733/
> 
> I knew this all sounded familiar...


Your like a ninja. Thanks 
This is the guys website at the bottom of the page
http://k9joy.com/affiliates/cgi-bin/peeingpostsubscription.cgi?product_id=1&aff_camp=1_default&vendor_id=1


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

thread started with this - 
"So my question is does anyone have any further info regarding feeding larger less often really decreases the chances of twisting and bloat. Or what are your opinions on this?"
-- almost no responses directly related to your specific Q 

06/09/200 ...you wrote - I feed my dogs 4-5 times a week, once per day. I have done this for over 20 years. I do this because I feel it's healthier for the dog to not have food constantly digesting. IMO, having food constantly digesting is unnatural.

04/07/202 - you wrote - My dogs definitely skip a day or few here and there. They do get larger portions when they do eat but I would not say I adopted this feeding method fully. My understanding is that activity after eating may increase the chances of a problem. So if you only feed them small amounts they will still run and jump around. If you don’t feed them for 3 days then let them eat till they are full they will then go take a nap. I only power feed with raw, I believe this method to really be meant for a raw based diet. I think the characteristics of kibble are too unpredictable to power feed. To me the feeding method I mentioned does make logical sense

well, your two statements are fairly consistent and since it is a 20 year system, i doubt you're gonna change since we seemed to have confirmed that the "accordion" built stomach info is wrong 

side note.... i don't have a good image of exactly what power feeding means, but i'm curious if you feed all raw and have been doing that for 20 years ?

next ... and another side note .... to me counter surfing and dumpster diving is more of a behavior that can be extinguished and imo not always related to how hungry a dog is 
-- my current dog has the highest food drive of any dog i've ever had ... was a trash digger supreme, inside or outside ... i extinguished that behavior, but his food drive is as high as it ever was and it is switched on 24/7/365
-- not that it probably matters, but he was also an aggressive biting snarling food guarder when i got him so he was hand fed for a few months and still has to work for meals
-- i have no set feeding schedule (99% raw), and it is very random (sometimes twice, sometimes 3x and some days nothing) but he seems very healthy (21kg) and holds his weight within 1 or 1.5 kg ... he gets LOTS of exercise...when i feed him a big meal we do nothing...he kicks back at least an hour, but if i gave him the word he would start spinning to go out a min after he ate  ...that just isn't done


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Hey Rick.... It is Christopher Smith that has been doing that for 20 years.



> *Christopher Smith*
> I feed my dogs 4-5 times a week, once per day. I have done this for over 20 years. I do this because I feel it's healthier for the dog to not have food constantly digesting. IMO, having food constantly digesting is unnatural.





> *Chris McDonald*
> My dogs definitely skip a day or few here and there. They do get larger portions when they do eat but I would not say I adopted this feeding method fully.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Tx for the correction Joby ... they all look alike in my feeble mind 
.... plus i think i stayed too long up on my roof painting today


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Thanks for straitening me out Joby because I didn’t remember ever saying that. 
Lets all just leave this thread alone now


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I have had a lot of dogs and never had one bloat but have heard of other airedales doing it. I feed 24/7. There are 10 feeders that hold 40 lbs ea. in the yards. They ha=ve access to food all the time and NBEVER eat much at once or wolf their food down. They get 5 to 10 pieces of kibble in their mouth and go lay down and spit it out and eat it a piece at a time. They never gorge.


 
That kibble must taste like crap!:lol: Joke!:mrgreen:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I feed twice a day. No set times but I want 8-12 hours between meals. I fast them one day a week.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Zakia Days said:


> That kibble must taste like crap!:lol: Joke!:mrgreen:


That's all right, they get 300lbs of raw leg quarters a month also. Kibble probably does taste like crap to them. LOL


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## Destry K. Alldredge (Mar 20, 2009)

Im sure this is posted someplace here on the forums but ??? if not its worth a quick read and has many helpful links. 

http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm#Symptoms


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

My thoughts on the feast and famine stuff is as follows...

They are anecdotal, I am no vet...

I have no issues with people wanting to feed large raw meals at times, nor do I have a problem with fasting a dog for a day or two.

That said, I choose to feed pretty regularly. Reason being is that I know what a dog looks like that has overeaten. I mean really over eaten, and my dogs will do it, they do not have much sense about it.

When the stomach is physically distended, visible to the naked eye, I am just not going to work the snot out of my dog. They would be uncomfortable and I would be worried about bloat type issues.

Since I work a job where my dog has to be kennelled, has to run around to get there, and conceivably could have to work, it is just not worth it to me. Even having to let the dog out more often because they have to shit a lot after eating a huge meal may not work out with my other work duties.

And on the fasting side of things, I think my dogs would work just fine with a day of no eating, and I do it occasionally, but generally speaking I want them to have the energy they need in case of a big day.


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