# Baden promo video



## Chris McDonald

I got back from a few days of basic handler training at Baden k9 that I enjoyed. Found out they have this promo video that I though some might enjoy looking at. 


http://www.scginternational.com/baden.html


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## Kyle Sprag

what is that video suppose to promote?


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## Patrick Murray

Hey Chris, wanna buy a timeshare?


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## Kyle Sprag

Patrick Murray said:


> Hey Chris, wanna buy a timeshare?


 
:lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D> :lol: =D>


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## Chris McDonald

Kyle Sprag said:


> what is that video suppose to promote?


 
Got me man, I just put it up there, I just visited there place for a few days I’m not involved with there advertising program O


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## Connie Sutherland

Kyle Sprag said:


> what is that video suppose to promote?


Smoke.

All kinds.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Mirrors too.


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## Chris McDonald

Easy everyone, I didn’t want to start a whole new rip fest! Although feel free. Just saying my dog and I had a good time up there for a few days, and I did see a lot of cool stuff.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

They have a really cool golden bridge for sale in California......I am doing the brokering, so maybe you would be interested. =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Connie Sutherland

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> They have a really cool golden bridge for sale in California......I am doing the brokering, so maybe you would be interested. =D> =D> =D> =D>


So you handle the funds, then, right? :lol:


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## Chris McDonald

and I already got a timeshare, it was a good one though!


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## Chris McDonald

Connie Sutherland said:


> So you handle the funds, then, right? :lol:


No they handled mine I paid them!


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## Chris McDonald

Just to add fuel to your guy’s fire I attached a few images (I think I did) of my dog and I


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## Patrick Murray

Chris McDonald said:


> and I already got a timeshare, it was a good one though!


I'm just kidding with you Chris. Thanks for sharing and I'm glad you had a good experience; I wish I could say the same for me and some others.


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## Kristen Cabe

Chris McDonald said:


> Just to add fuel to your guy’s fire I attached a few images (I think I did) of my dog and I


What is going on in that last one??


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## Chris McDonald

Patrick Murray said:


> I'm just kidding with you Chris. Thanks for sharing and I'm glad you had a good experience; I wish I could say the same for me and some others.


 
Its all good!! I certainly new it was coming when I posted “Baden promo video”. I just had to do it. If I couldn’t take it I wouldn’t have posted it. I can understand people with bad tastes in there mouths, but so far so good. I dig my dog and as you can see in the image he can even walk on water.
I can say they look to be busy up there, they had a few trainers getting ready to deliver 10 dogs to Africa. The dogs were there and they were packing things up. My daughters love staying at Niagara Falls and I get to go play for a bit. 
My father might be getting a dog this fall from them. 
As I figure out the video editing stuff on the Apple I will bore everyone with home videos of my dog.


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## Patrick Murray

[QUOTE I can say they look to be busy up there[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

They've got a good gimmick and there's obviously no shortage of suckers out there.


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## Jennifer Coulter

I went looking for a Mal for my first SAR dog, but did not know anything about breeders or the Mal community in general back then. (Still learning all these years later) 

Baden was easy to find as they advertised and I have family in Ontario so I thought I could check it out.

It took one phone conversation for me to realize I did NOT want a dog from these people, or a relationship with these people. 

For a short while I thought that is what pointy eared dog breeders were like:-o Glad I kept digging.

The compound does look like summer camp for boys and dogs  You are smart to put the kids and wife up somewhere fun to make time for hanging with your dog at least


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## Chris McDonald

Patrick Murray said:


> [QUOTE I can say they look to be busy up there[/font][/size]


They've got a good gimmick and there's obviously no shortage of suckers out there.[/quote]

Maybe? But so far so good for me, hope it stays that way. Its been about a year and a half now. Supposable the contact in Africa has had a few of there dogs. I have no reason to doubt them, I really don’t see any reason for them to put on a show for me. I already have a dog.
They obviously have there share of people who dislike them on these chat rooms. I was certainly aware of it the first time I went there but after my second visit I felt OK about taking one.


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## Chris McDonald

Kristen Cabe said:


> What is going on in that last one??


 
Made a quick harness out of his lead that goes around his chest to pull him up on the platform, he doesn’t seam to mind it at all.


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## Chris McDonald

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I went looking for a Mal for my first SAR dog, but did not know anything about breeders or the Mal community in general back then. (Still learning all these years later)
> 
> Baden was easy to find as they advertised and I have family in Ontario so I thought I could check it out.
> 
> It took one phone conversation for me to realize I did NOT want a dog from these people, or a relationship with these people.
> 
> For a short while I thought that is what pointy eared dog breeders were like:-o Glad I kept digging.
> 
> The compound does look like summer camp for boys and dogs  You are smart to put the kids and wife up somewhere fun to make time for hanging with your dog at least


Took me a few seconds to figure out the pointy ear thing.. Every time I come on here I learn some new lingo… nice 
Believe it or not my wife is up there right now for a week of handling lessons; I am hoping its going to get her to like the dog a little more. Today was her first day up there and I haven’t heard from her yet. This should be very, very interesting. As I am sure you can understand many of my ideas do blow up in my face 
Nice picture, wish the cold weather didn’t kill my knees. Me and my dog would conduct the rescue from the hot tub


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## David Frost

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> They have a really cool golden bridge for sale in California......I am doing the brokering, so maybe you would be interested. =D> =D> =D> =D>



I've already entered negotiations for that one in Brooklyn, maybe I should consider a west coast investment as well.

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf

Chris McDonald said:


> I can say they look to be busy up there, they had a few trainers getting ready to deliver 10 dogs to Africa.


 Hope its not a Nigerian scam. One of those idiots contacted me and wanted 10 dogs...all pre-paid of course with a cashiers check. You gotta get up pretty late in the day to pull one over on me!=D>

Howard


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## Al Curbow

Hey Chris, it's great that you had a good experience and you have a good dog.

The live rounds RIGHT next to the dog wasn't cool to me, stuff like that's one of the reasons they're viewed the way they are, incredibly stupid stunt. The dog has zero clue that it's a live round, might as well have been a grasshopper or something. It's hard to get past the dumb shit to even look at the dogs on a fair basis. 

I met a guy that bought a pup from them and sent it somewhere in N.C. to be raised and trained, $30,000 large! OMG, lol. Haven't met the dog yet


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## Gerry Grimwood

Someone already said it before me.


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## Chris McDonald

Al Curbow said:


> Hey Chris, it's great that you had a good experience and you have a good dog.
> 
> The live rounds RIGHT next to the dog wasn't cool to me, stuff like that's one of the reasons they're viewed the way they are, incredibly stupid stunt. The dog has zero clue that it's a live round, might as well have been a grasshopper or something. It's hard to get past the dumb shit to even look at the dogs on a fair basis.
> 
> I met a guy that bought a pup from them and sent it somewhere in N.C. to be raised and trained, $30,000 large! OMG, lol. Haven't met the dog yet


 
its all fun and games till some(one/ thing) gets hurt

they do have some nice pups 

for $30,000 the dog should be able to drive to your house and show himself off


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## Mike Scheiber

Chris McDonald said:


> its all fun and games till some(one/ thing) gets hurt
> 
> they do have some nice pups
> 
> for $30,000 the dog should be able to drive to your house and show himself off


And carry in a ice cream pail full of peanut butter.


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## Al Curbow

What did you do there? How did you work your dog? etc.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Chris McDonald said:


> Believe it or not my wife is up there right now for a week of handling lessons; I am hoping its going to get her to like the dog a little more. Today was her first day up there and I haven’t heard from her yet. This should be very, very interesting.


Practice saying this with emotion in front of a mirror:

I am so sorry, what was I thinking ? just before you say "thinking" slip in a mouthguard just in case :razz:


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## Chris McDonald

Al Curbow said:


> What did you do there? How did you work your dog? etc.


Very basic handling. As corny as it sounds, I guess the best way I would describe it would be communication. Although they did pack a lot into a 10 hour day, more than any place else I have seen, two and ½ days really go quick. 
Spent most of the time on elevated unstable obstacles, getting the dog to go under, through, over, off, down, up, turn left, turn right, back, easy, pushing through, waiting etc. I found the dog to have quite a vocabulary. Unfortunately more than I can remember. Then we spent a little time on some larger outdoor obstacles.


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## Chris McDonald

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Practice saying this with emotion in front of a mirror:
> 
> I am so sorry, what was I thinking ? just before you say "thinking" slip in a mouthguard just in case :razz:


Sound like you have experience in this, I will give it a shot


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## Phil Dodson

> Sounds to me you had a great time!!


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## Matt Hammond

You can ay what you wnat about Baden, but they have a different mission from all of us sport style trainer. They sell an a$$ of dogs too.


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## Al Curbow

Matt,
live rounds right next to the dog? That's just retarded and for me disqualifies them as legitament. The puppy swimming thru fire to engage the bad guy and all that shit is fine, marketing is an important tool in business so one can "stretch the cash", so that's fine. Look at the video, the rounds are right next to the dog, really bad judgement, just my opinion,
AL


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## Carol Boche

Al Curbow said:


> Matt,
> live rounds right next to the dog? That's just retarded and for me disqualifies them as legitament. The puppy swimming thru fire to engage the bad guy and all that shit is fine, marketing is an important tool in business so one can "stretch the cash", so that's fine. Look at the video, the rounds are right next to the dog, really bad judgement, just my opinion,
> AL


Was not going to watch it, but I finally did......ugh, I agree 100% with Al. Live rounds right next to the dog=stupid. [-( :-o


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## Chris McDonald

As far as the rounds go, if you have a highly skilled person firing the rounds and a well trained dog (as they do) it’s really not a big deal at all. As Matt said they certainly do have a much different mission from most of us on this site. In my opinion there is a call in the world for their dogs and training, and it certainly aint to score points at some sporting event. They do supply many dogs worldwide. I had a great time up there and am planning to get to their Costa Rica location for a week this winter. I have been many places before and after there’s but have not seen anything close!


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## Al Curbow

The skill of the shooter plays one part, unless they're good enough to manipulate the richochet then it's stupid. The dog has NO idea it was a bullet, it might as well be a bug jumping out of the dirt or something, we know it's dangerous but the dog has no clue, if you think differently then that's fine too. For me personally it disqualifies them as legitament, something a young kid would think was cool and a barometer of courage, JMO,


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## Mike Scheiber

Chris McDonald said:


> As far as the rounds go, if you have a highly skilled person firing the rounds and a well trained dog (as they do) it’s really not a big deal at all. As Matt said they certainly do have a much different mission from most of us on this site. In my opinion there is a call in the world for their dogs and training, and it certainly aint to score points at some sporting event. They do supply many dogs worldwide. I had a great time up there and am planning to get to their Costa Rica location for a week this winter. I have been many places before and after there’s but have not seen anything close!


You should get out more see more other places and different missions


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## David Scholes

Al Curbow said:


> The skill of the shooter plays one part, unless they're good enough to manipulate the richochet then it's stupid. The dog has NO idea it was a bullet, it might as well be a bug jumping out of the dirt or something, we know it's dangerous but the dog has no clue, if you think differently then that's fine too. For me personally it disqualifies them as legitament, something a young kid would think was cool and a barometer of courage, JMO,


Very risky and wouldn't be done with a human trainee... except some rounds overhead during advanced infantry training. Testing the dogs coolness under fire should be able to be done other ways. However if you are dealing with an animal you are taking into combat... some buyers are going to want to be sure. Their life may depend on the dogs reaction under fire.


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## Chris McDonald

Al Curbow said:


> The skill of the shooter plays one part, unless they're good enough to manipulate the richochet then it's stupid. The dog has NO idea it was a bullet, it might as well be a bug jumping out of the dirt or something, we know it's dangerous but the dog has no clue, if you think differently then that's fine too. For me personally it disqualifies them as legitament, something a young kid would think was cool and a barometer of courage, JMO,


Point well taken, we can back and forth forever! I am by no means in anyway an expert in gun fire or ricocheting. But, Al if you spent a week there I am willing to bet you will think they are ligit. As I said in the past I did get a dog from them, but I’m certainly not on their pay role. I have no reason to try and sell their dogs. I certainly cannot speak on their behalf in anyway. But man, they do stuff most dog handlers I met say can’t be done.
 My wife was up there for 7 or 8 (12) hour days for dog handling skills and they had US Marine Force Recon guys living on site for several weeks learning dog handling skills when she was there. My wife is 105 pound dog (animal) lover that would typically think correcting a dog with a pinch color is abusive until she spent time up there and learned to understand their methods. I know you guys online like to bust them, but the fact is most of you don’t know what for. I have yet to hear from someone who spent a week or two there and had a problem with their training methods. They definitely care about their dogs and their wellbeing. The trainers are all great people. 
The dogs in the video are the norm of what they produce. I am willing to bet you any dog they consider ready to sell and they can perform as the dogs in the video. I have one of their dogs laying nest to me as I type. All everyone on this site seams to bring up is a few rounds fired. Is there nothing that is the least bit impressive on the video? If I posted it without the BADEN logo and the rounds fired what would you think? If I said the video was me and my dog what would you say?


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## Gerry Grimwood

David Scholes said:


> However if you are dealing with an animal you are taking into combat... some buyers are going to want to be sure. Their life may depend on the dogs reaction under fire.


I would be very suprised if anyone going into combat is buying dogs on the internet.


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## Chris McDonald

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I would be very suprised if anyone going into combat is buying dogs on the internet.


Many people buying their dogs will depend on their life under fire, and who said they are just buying them off the internet? They have people flying in from around the world. When I was there for 3 or 4 days they were sending 10 dogs and a few trainers to South Africa for a security company that was to protect diplomats. *Again I don’t really care if anyone believes me I have no reason to stand up for them*. I have only been slowly learning dog handler skills for 2 years as a hobby. From what I have seen for some reason they are getting a unjustifiable bad rap from a few. There may be more to it than I know, but I don’t have a bad thing to say.


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## David Scholes

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I would be very suprised if anyone going into combat is buying dogs on the internet.


Of course not. However, I can see front line military personnel wanting see how their dog would react to live fire before purchase.


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## Chris McDonald

Mike Scheiber said:


> You should get out more see more other places and different missions


Mike, God know I have no missions, other than running out late at night for milk for the kids in the morning. I’m looking and trying to learn any where I can, I am having a blast with my dog from them. I am open to any handler experience I can get and had many over the past two years. Another 20 years and I will consider myself an experienced hobbyist. I am not trying to be a wise guy but can you explain your issue with them to me? As I said I was there, they are really nice guys who have some incredible dogs. With the best training grounds I have ever seen. After spending time there I just have a hard time seeing what everyone’s problem is? What they do is not for sport, but they have no problem with sport guys. Can someone who has spent a good deal of time with them tell me of issues, and I mean real issues? From what I have seen any trainer who spends time with any other trainer has an issue.
 I am talking about real issues. Someone who has spent time there tell me? 
Thanks


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## Gerry Grimwood

Chris McDonald said:


> Mike, God know I have no missions, other than running out late at night for milk for the kids in the morning.


Glad to hear you're just like most people, look at it this way if you will..if this is a legitimate buisness who's main focus is supplying dogs for military/security around the world and they have a large demand for these dogs, you as an average person will most likely be getting the bottom of the bottom of the barrel to begin with and secondly if the above is true, they wouldn't even talk to you.


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## Mike Scheiber

Man there promo video looks like a spin off a old Mission Imposable pilot. I sent it to friends for laughs 
I really don get the hole PPD thing bad enough we have some goofy mofos marching around there backyards wearing cammo fatigues yanking there dogs around barking out German commands wearing bandoleros and guns strapped to them. Now we have the mercenaries hounds. 
Sorry I'll stick to my play sport dog's and training. Hay wate we got some old raggedy blinds maybe we can lite one on fire and do some bitework got a starter pistol to!\\/
Sorry Chris I'm just playing but I honestly don't get the PPD thing my guess is most of the real bites these PPD trained dog's get are mistake bites. I've trained bite dogs with hundreds of people through the years don't know any that had reason to put there dog on any one. If you live somewhere where you need a dog like this don't give them your money use the money to get a better place or better yet skip the dog camp get even a better place where you don't have to have this fear.


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## Chris McDonald

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Glad to hear you're just like most people, look at it this way if you will..if this is a legitimate buisness who's main focus is supplying dogs for military/security around the world and they have a large demand for these dogs, you as an average person will most likely be getting the bottom of the bottom of the barrel to begin with and secondly if the above is true, they wouldn't even talk to you.


Gerry, I have thought of your point prior to buying. They did offer me several dogs and, they did know my dog was going to be a pet. I will admit my dog is not the highest drive Dutch they offer and for my use he is just right, a pet! They suggested a dog that fitted what I needed and they did a good job of it. If I wanted another dog from them I can go up there and select, leave it or take it or come back when there are others ready to roll. They certainly have dogs that are way, way too hard for a pet, way too hard! My dog is a lover that is great with kids, except when he tries to heard them, but he just cant help himself! I have spent a good deal of time with many police K9 teams. I have video of some of it I will try to figure out how to post. Most wish they had my dog, and say it. As I said I will post the video. When I went to BADEN 3 years ago I explained what I wanted, I wanted a trained Dutch. I even asked if I could get one without bite work. They suggested that the dog have bite work training and I learn to control it. This method was also suggested by some police dog handlers I know. I actually wanted a guard dog (to bark) for my wife and two young girls for when I was traveling. My full sized greyhound only wakes up to pee and eat. Believe it or not I came up with a Dutch because I did not want a typical tough guy dog. I did not want to be placed in the stereotype Rottweiler, Doberman owner category and wanted something smaller than a German Sheppard. I think I could have got a Chiwawa for what I wanted. I looked long and hard before I came up with some kind of mutt called a Dutch 
It took me three trips to Canada many phone calls and my father and the owner both being in Vietnam before they would sell me a dog. From what I have seen is does take a bit for them to spend some time with you now (may be part of there bad rap here). If my dog is the bottom of the barrel he is still way more than I expected and just shames the hell out of 90% of the police K9s we have been with. Again give me a week or so I will post a few cool video of me and Quinn going on missions to get milk at midnight, man were crazy:roll: . If I’m lucky an old lady will walk by my truck to get to her car and I will hear my dog going nuts inside Wawa.


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## Chris McDonald

Mike Scheiber said:


> Man there promo video looks like a spin off a old Mission Imposable pilot. I sent it to friends for laughs
> I really don get the hole PPD thing bad enough we have some goofy mofos marching around there backyards wearing cammo fatigues yanking there dogs around barking out German commands wearing bandoleros and guns strapped to them. Now we have the mercenaries hounds.
> Sorry I'll stick to my play sport dog's and training. Hay wate we got some old raggedy blinds maybe we can lite one on fire and do some bitework got a starter pistol to!\\/
> Sorry Chris I'm just playing but I honestly don't get the PPD thing my guess is most of the real bites these PPD trained dog's get are mistake bites. I've trained bite dogs with hundreds of people through the years don't know any that had reason to put there dog on any one. If you live somewhere where you need a dog like this don't give them your money use the money to get a better place or better yet skip the dog camp get even a better place where you don't have to have this fear.


 
Mike, from the little I know its about seeing how a dog acts under stressful conditions. Is that not the reason for the use of rocks in plastic bottles and umbrellas? Gun fire, rocks in plastic bottles what’s the difference. I have no intent to ever have my dog bite someone and enjoy any form of scent work better than bite work. I live in a very nice section of town, there have been two homes robed very close to mine and my next door neighbor’s car stolen in the past year and a half. I have no guns in my house and hate alarms (they always go off). I sleep better with my mutt at home when I am traveling. He is a deterrent at the window. So your saying Force Recon should not train in full gear? Let’s face it people going into bad situations have to train somewhere (and I’m not talking about over weight cops). I would think they should do it in what they would be wearing.


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## Matt Hammond

Al, I know the shooter in the Video very well, Spent some time with him in the Stan. He has taken shots for me and in my direction a hundred times. This IS the guy you want behind the trigger for this type of training. 

On a side note, I have done live fire training with dogs in the past. In shot houses on SWAT entry training. Nothing wrong with it as long as you are careful. And again, these are not FR, or MR, or PPD dogs we are talking about here. A bit more advanced.


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## Patrick Murray

Mike, have you ever seen the video "War Dogs"? It's about working dogs in Vietnam that went on patrols looking for VC. These dogs were trained not only to warn against VC, but to detect trip wires hooked to boobie traps and explosives. They were also invaluable as sentries. American casualties dropped in units that began using these dogs. The dogs were so effective that the VC put bounties on the dogs and their handlers. 

Anyway, these types of dogs need to be able to operate in arenas filled with gunfire, fire, smoke, etc. Thus the need to train in such an environment.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Patrick Murray said:


> Anyway, these types of dogs need to be able to operate in arenas filled with gunfire, fire, smoke, etc. Thus the need to train in such an environment.


I am genuinely interested in what these dogs would do in a combat situation in todays world, considering the technology and resources available to the military now.


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## Chris McDonald

Do any of you trainers train your dogs to do a specific job like explosive detection while the dog is under stress? For example: checking boxes for explosives on an elevated wobbly 2x6 with loud noises or with the famous fire and smoke underneath?… etc. 
The only war my dog has been in is with my wife when he walks around the house with one of her shoes in his mouth. I’m pretty sure he can kick her ass, he’s just being nice about things though.


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## Mike Scheiber

Patrick Murray said:


> Mike, have you ever seen the video "War Dogs"? It's about working dogs in Vietnam that went on patrols looking for VC. These dogs were trained not only to warn against VC, but to detect trip wires hooked to boobie traps and explosives. They were also invaluable as sentries. American casualties dropped in units that began using these dogs. The dogs were so effective that the VC put bounties on the dogs and their handlers.
> 
> Anyway, these types of dogs need to be able to operate in arenas filled with gunfire, fire, smoke, etc. Thus the need to train in such an environment.


No mention of the dogs put out on long lines and used as mine sweepers guess they were the shitters not worth mentioning.
Why put your family's life at risk with a animal Build a machine gun nest on the roof.That should do the trick.
No doubt there is a need for dogs trained this way Chris mentioned South Africa and several dozen other {Mod Note: Visit the countries before commenting on their condition.}. I remember some mentioning getting a Lion that should work to.
No need for this sort of dog here. Like I keep saying keep your 20K and get a better place to live so you don't have to be scared interest rates are low houses are cheep.


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## Chris McDonald

Mike Scheiber said:


> No mention of the dogs put out on long lines and used as mine sweepers guess they were the shitters not worth mentioning.
> Why put your family's life at risk with a animal Build a machine gun nest on the roof.That should do the trick.
> No doubt there is a need for dogs trained this way Chris mentioned South Africa and several dozen other shit holes. I remember some mentioning getting a Lion that should work to.
> No need for this sort of dog here. Like I keep saying keep your 20K and get a better place to live so you don't have to be scared interest rates are low houses are cheep.


Mike my dog has been exposed to many things other dogs have not and you’re right no one needs it here. As I said he does not fit the “hard” dog profile in anyway. And as Gerry pointed out that might be why I got him and not South Africa. My neighborhood is filled with multimillion dollar houses. I’ll be the first to admit they don’t look it (god bless NJ) I’m a ½ block from the water. If you drove through my neighborhood you would not feel threatened. When it comes down to it it’s a great neighborhood to rob a house in. I think your logic is little backasswards. And just for the record I don’t think 20k can really buy much of an upgrade, even in Minneapolis. And even if it could it’s just a nicer house to rob. Im defiantly not putting my family’s life at risk with my dog from Baden… yes they absolutely have dogs I would not want in my house as do many places.


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## Patrick Murray

Mike Scheiber said:


> No need for this sort of dog here. Like I keep saying keep your 20K and get a better place to live so you don't have to be scared interest rates are low houses are cheep.


That is beyond an IDIOTIC statement. Who the ____ are you to make a blanket statement and pretend to tell anybody on this board what they need or don't need? You have no clue as to everybody's particular circumstances. Any moron can post on an internet board, you proved it. Are you always this arrogant? You should take your bullshit to a PETA board.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Are you upset Patrick?


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## Chris McDonald

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Are you upset Patrick?


Lee you got to admit it was an ignorant looser statement in so many ways. I’m not that used to being on the receiving side of ignorance…. I’m usually too busy dishing it out! I don’t think you can even upgrade to a double wide trailer for $20k. On top of it Mike must think nice houses don’t get robbed.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Chris McDonald said:


> Lee you got to admit it was an ignorant looser statement in so many ways. I’m not that used to being on the receiving side of ignorance…. I’m usually too busy dishing it out! I don’t think you can even upgrade to a double wide trailer for $20k. On top of it Mike must think nice houses don’t get robbed.


I agree. I was kind of shocked that Sheiber put down South Africa as a shithole when we just had a new member join from that country. What a "welcome aboard".

Just because we feel fortunate to be citizens here doesn't mean you need to cram it down other peoples throats that don't live here. That's kind of a elitist attitude don't you think.

I was teasing Patrick because he got so upset. I hope he's not angry.


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## Mike Scheiber

Patrick Murray said:


> That is beyond an IDIOTIC statement. Who the ____ are you to make a blanket statement and pretend to tell anybody on this board what they need or don't need? You have no clue as to everybody's particular circumstances. Any moron can post on an internet board, you proved it. Are you always this arrogant? You should take your bullshit to a PETA board.


Your tone leads me to believe you would like one of them Rambo dogs and not be goofing on ya about it. 8-[
OK I'll stop.


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## Al Curbow

Do any folks here think that bullets landing next to the dog is stressful on the dog?


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## Alyssa Myracle

Wow.

What a bunch of stupid civilian wannabes.
Compensating for that little pang of regret for not manning up and enlisting. Running around in camo and pretending to have Military Working Dogs.

What a joke.


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## Mike Scheiber

Al Curbow said:


> Do any folks here think that bullets landing next to the dog is stressful on the dog?


Pfft that fricken dog has no clue. I say make a video of a dog on a down on the center line of a busy 2 lane high way in rush hour in a hail storm and toss in a tornado for proofing.


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## Patrick Murray

Al Curbow said:


> Do any folks here think that bullets landing next to the dog is stressful on the dog?


Al, it probably depends on the dog. Some of the professional folks here may be able to answer this question better than I. Perhaps a dog that is stressed a little is best. A dog not stressed at all may not be taking the exercise seriously. But I have no experience with this and I might certainly be 100% wrong. 

It was explained to me by Baden themselves that it is essential that dogs destined for certain work venues be "comfortable" with live rounds "zinging" past them. It was explained to me that the dogs can detect the rounds going by them and so it is best that they first experience it in training rather than in a real-life situation.


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## Al Curbow

I guess my point is that the dog has no clue what a bullet is and what it can do, not very stressful on the dog at all, that's totally for marketing, not a test of the dogs nerve, that's my only point on the whole thing.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Al Curbow said:


> Do any folks here think that bullets landing next to the dog is stressful on the dog?


Not anymore than a crack from a whip, unless it was fired close range, that looked like small caliber to me.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Running around in camo
> What a joke.


I'm burning my camo pj's tonite, and they're the good ones with the sock built in.


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## Carol Boche

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I'm burning my camo pj's tonite, and they're the good ones with the sock built in.


There goes all my hunting gear and dog training pants.........


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## Patrick Murray

Mike Scheiber said:


> Your tone leads me to believe you would like one of them Rambo dogs and not be goofing on ya about it. 8-[
> OK I'll stop.


Dude, it's nothing personal but you've made it abundantly clear in this and other threads that you don't believe that anyone needs a dog trained to protect their handler. Considering that you're on a "working dog" forum, I think it's pretty likely that the vast majority of us here disagree with your point of view. I'm not really sure why you choose to participate in this forum based upon that point of view. It might be like one opposed to guns posting such, repeatedly, on an NRA message board. Go tell them they don't need a gun and that THEY need to move to a "safer" area. You'll be really popular very quickly over there. The bottom line is, if you don't believe in these types of dogs, why are you here? 

One thing is for damn sure, you have no clue what you are talking about when you make assanine statements that people don't need PPD dogs and that they should just move, etc. You don't know what any of us need any more than we know what you need. Peace.


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## Patrick Murray

Al Curbow said:


> I guess my point is that the dog has no clue what a bullet is and what it can do, not very stressful on the dog at all, that's totally for marketing, not a test of the dogs nerve, that's my only point on the whole thing.


Al, you may be right. Perhaps Chris or another here who is on good terms with them (if that's possible) might contact them and ask them to explain why it's done.


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## Patrick Murray

Mike, I apologize for my reference to an "idiot". I was the one who stepped over the line with that remark and I am sorry.


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## Alyssa Myracle

Nothing wrong with civilians wearing camo, in and of itself.


But I'll bet half the guys at that school tell BS stories about being Special Forces/Ranger/Delta... and none of 'em were ever in the military.
Or if they were, they were cooks and clerks.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Nothing wrong with civilians wearing camo, in and of itself.
> 
> 
> But I'll bet half the guys at that school tell BS stories about being Special Forces/Ranger/Delta... and none of 'em were ever in the military.
> Or if they were, they were cooks and clerks.


Hey Alyssa, don't forget Recon, Semper Fi!


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## Lee H Sternberg

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I'm burning my camo pj's tonite, and they're the good ones with the sock built in.


I think we need a photo of you in those Gerry!


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## Carol Boche

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I think we need a photo of you in those Gerry!


OH crud......I hope they don't have the flap in the back too.....\\/ \\/


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## Mike Scheiber

Patrick Murray said:


> Mike, I apologize for my reference to an "idiot". I was the one who stepped over the line with that remark and I am sorry.


Not to worry I am written about in the shit houses on the job sites I work all the time. The shit pumper guy asked me to lighten up or he was going to start charging my company extra for cleaning up the graffiti.
The other night I got called a prick at a restaurant.
Just to clear things up about PETA I don't get out hunting much any more but a couple of weeks I did get out with my kid. He shot a couple of geese and some ducks I shot a few ducks. Tonight I had goose breast with apricot sauce. Mmmmm=P~


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## Gerry Grimwood

Carol Boche said:


> OH crud......I hope they don't have the flap in the back too.....\\/ \\/


Made with an IED of sorts :-o


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## Al Curbow

Alyssa,
Matt said he served with the guy doing the shooting in the video so not sure of the wannabe comment, 
AL


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## Chris McDonald

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Nothing wrong with civilians wearing camo, in and of itself.
> 
> 
> But I'll bet half the guys at that school tell BS stories about being Special Forces/Ranger/Delta... and none of 'em were ever in the military.
> Or if they were, they were cooks and clerks.


Alyssa, again I can’t emphasize enough how much it doesn’t matter to me what anyone thinks of them, and I have no real reason to stand up for them. Nor do I feel anyone needs to. But I did mention that there was a Recon member up there when my wife was there for a week. My wife only mentioned it to me because my father was one in his day as well. The 20 something year old kid up there had no reason to lie to her, the guys at Baden have no reason to go along with it and they know who is paying the bill for him being there, and I really don’t think my wife saw a need to make it up. When my wife showed up at 8 am he already had been up training for a while and when she left a 7pm they were getting ready for night work. There were several people there training, all of them were staying in hotels except for this guy who was living on site in some real bad barracks. Anyone who wanted could stay for night training or get there earlier none of them chose to. Ultimately who cares?


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## Chris McDonald

Patrick Murray said:


> Al, it probably depends on the dog. Some of the professional folks here may be able to answer this question better than I. Perhaps a dog that is stressed a little is best. A dog not stressed at all may not be taking the exercise seriously. But I have no experience with this and I might certainly be 100% wrong.
> 
> It was explained to me by Baden themselves that it is essential that dogs destined for certain work venues be "comfortable" with live rounds "zinging" past them. It was explained to me that the dogs can detect the rounds going by them and so it is best that they first experience it in training rather than in a real-life situation.


Pat I never got on the rounds topic with them when I was up there or when I speak to them, I’m still working on basics. Spoke with Josh this afternoon but not about gun fire. There are certain things they say really cant be explained over the phone and tell me to drive on up, or go to Costa to see. I would imagine this would be one of them. I am making plans to go to their facility in Costa this winter for a week. My only problem with asking them about live fire when I’m there is somehow I know I know I’ll be down range on the wrong end of the deal. And the beat thing is they really don’t allow cameras around so I won’t even have a picture of it.


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## Chris McDonald

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I'm burning my camo pj's tonite, and they're the good ones with the sock built in.


Camo PJs don’t count, there like superman/ Spiderman under-roz for adults, just don’t wear them shopping or anything. Do they have those attached feet?


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## David Scholes

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Wow.
> 
> What a bunch of stupid civilian wannabes.
> Compensating for that little pang of regret for not manning up and enlisting. Running around in camo and pretending to have Military Working Dogs.
> 
> What a joke.


I was thinking more of a comparison with martial artists where in reality there are so many rules that it is really just a sport and should have the word "martial" removed. Some think they are prepared for real combat but when a real life situation comes along... hey you can't kick below the knee... ahhh your thumb is in my eye socket...

Nothin wrong with gaining the skills as long as you know what is real and what isn't. 

I joined up in the Carter years... didn't have the patience to re-enlist... Looks like we may be heading for worse with this election and the state of the world at the moment. What it gets down to is if the shit really hit the fan... everyone is in the militia... and the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting. So, I think it's good for everyone to have their fun and pretend. If in 1 year or in 200 years everything falls apart at least some playing around experience is better than nothing. We have a great military but it's only as good as the leadership. If we face a threat and the commander in chief decides to surrender, what then? But of course history tells us that will never happen. LOL.


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## Chris McDonald

David Scholes said:


> I was thinking more of a comparison with martial artists where in reality there are so many rules that it is really just a sport and should have the word "martial" removed. Some think they are prepared for real combat but when a real life situation comes along... hey you can't kick below the knee... ahhh your thumb is in my eye socket...
> 
> Nothin wrong with gaining the skills as long as you know what is real and what isn't.
> 
> I joined up in the Carter years... didn't have the patience to re-enlist... Looks like we may be heading for worse with this election and the state of the world at the moment. What it gets down to is if the shit really hit the fan... everyone is in the militia... and the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting. So, I think it's good for everyone to have their fun and pretend. If in 1 year or in 200 years everything falls apart at least some playing around experience is better than nothing. We have a great military but it's only as good as the leadership. If we face a threat and the commander in chief decides to surrender, what then? But of course history tells us that will never happen. LOL.


*** Mod edit out political comments. *** You know you’re in a lot of trouble after you statement now!


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## Alyssa Myracle

Interestingly, their website claims they trained dogs for the USMC.
The provided link is broken, and a search of the USMC's website says nothing.

I got quite a chuckle out of their claims that they are the premier private intel company in Iraq.
Wrong. Try Titan/L3.


I challenge you to give me the name and DOB of ANY of the personnel claiming to be prior-military at this place.
I'm more than happy to verify their claims.


Of course, like all bullshit artists, they'll say their record is classified.

You're getting lied to and ripped off. Wake up.


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## David Scholes

Chris McDonald said:


> Come on Dave it’s a great time to have a Muslim for president, never been better! You know you’re in a lot of trouble after you statement now!


Thank goodness it's a religion of peace. Always has been... Thomas Jefferson had a Koran and he was one of my favorite US presidents.

From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli...


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## Matt Hammond

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Nothing wrong with civilians wearing camo, in and of itself.
> 
> 
> But I'll bet half the guys at that school tell BS stories about being Special Forces/Ranger/Delta... and none of 'em were ever in the military.
> Or if they were, they were cooks and clerks.


Alyssa before you start to spout off know the facts.

Mike Mc. was a Nam handler
Rocky B is a retired Canadian SF member
and these are just two of the many military guys he has working for him. Please know your facts. 

I am not Pro or Anti Baden, I know these guys, and have served with Rocky I can verify that. All of these trainers have a good idea what they are doing weather you agree with it or not, they do have a clue about dogs and their function in Combat. Do you? Sch is not the only way to train a dog, and GSD are not the only breed. Some time you have to open your eyes to the bigger picture and that is the dogs they train are working in places you don't need to know about, and doing things you wouldn't understand. Why, because there is not a point value attached to it. Just lives.


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## Alyssa Myracle

Yep. Sure do.
What branch are you in? Feel free to search me via AKO.

Care to address this post:



Alyssa Myracle said:


> Interestingly, their website claims they trained dogs for the USMC.
> 
> The provided link is broken, and a search of the USMC's website says nothing.
> 
> I got quite a chuckle out of their claims that they are the premier private intel company in Iraq.
> Wrong. Try Titan/L3.
> 
> 
> I challenge you to give me the name and DOB of ANY of the personnel claiming to be prior-military at this place.
> I'm more than happy to verify their claims.
> 
> 
> Of course, like all bullshit artists, they'll say their record is classified.
> 
> You're getting lied to and ripped off. Wake up.


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## Matt Hammond

USMC Exp unit now has dogs. SOC now has dogs, Rangers now have dogs, none of them came from or come from Lackland. They all come from private vendors. Like Baden and Von Licke. You will not find them because they don't want to be found. Just except that there are things google will not find, and you will sleep better at night.


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## Alyssa Myracle

People in my line of work rarely use Google to verify things (although I've gotten a few convictions from MySpace).
Uncle Sugar has nice big databases for that.
The only reason I brought up the USMC public site, is because Baden's website provides a link to support their claim that they trained dogs for the USMC. The link doesn't go anywhere, and a search of the site doesn't provide any supporting info.

I found that to be true of a large volume of their links.

Baden/SGI is owned by a real estate company.
Many of the claims on their site are patently false. 

Like the fact that they are the premier intel contractor in Iraq. They may be over there, but they are by far *not* the largest. Titan/L3 has held that honor almost since the beginning of OIF. Even despite losing some of their linguist contracts to OSSI in the spring of this year, they retain their status as the largest intel contract. Last I knew, Raytheon was the second largest.

If Baden _does_ have a legitimate intel contract with the DOD and/or State Dept, I find it difficult to believe it's very large, given that Baden/SGI did not have a presence on the base that is HQ to MNFI/MNCI. But I doubt they do at all, since their company also does not appear on any DOD/US Govt contractor lists, which *no* they aren't classified. The fact that they hold a govt contract wouldn't be sensitive info, nor would it be withheld from established lists of contractors. 

If you are foolish enough to believe the old BS line of, "my missions were classified/our contract is classified" (which, BTW, is Red Flag #1 that someone is lying), then you would also have to accept that their contract is so classified that it appears on no public list, and yet they are allowed to publicly advertise the fact that they hold government contracts. Kind of counterintuitive, don't you think?

Just for shits and giggles:
Matt, is your middle name Ryan, Scott or David? 
What rank do you/did you last hold?
Feel free to PM the info.

And my challenge to anyone associated with Baden/SGI and claiming military background, still stands:
Give my your full name and DOB. No SSN, so I can't steal your identity.


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## Chris McDonald

Matt Hammond said:


> Alyssa before you start to spout off know the facts.
> 
> Mike Mc. was a Nam handler
> Rocky B is a retired Canadian SF member
> and these are just two of the many military guys he has working for him. Please know your facts.
> 
> I am not Pro or Anti Baden, I know these guys, and have served with Rocky I can verify that. All of these trainers have a good idea what they are doing weather you agree with it or not, they do have a clue about dogs and their function in Combat. Do you? Sch is not the only way to train a dog, and GSD are not the only breed. Some time you have to open your eyes to the bigger picture and that is the dogs they train are working in places you don't need to know about, and doing things you wouldn't understand. Why, because there is not a point value attached to it. Just lives.


Matt I was not going to mention names, but I have spent time with both Mike and Rocky, and as you know you are correct. Rocky and Josh actually came down to my place to deliver my dog and as you could imagine running with Rocky is impressive. They were in my area for a few days, they have a few of their dogs at a swat team in PA they were going back and forth. I will be seeing him and Josh in Costa this winter. I’m looking forward to it. 
**** MOD EDIT *****
This whole thread is getting way beyond stupid! Somebody please shut it down!!!!!!


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## Alyssa Myracle

Now to address this one more thoroughly.


Matt Hammond said:


> All of these trainers have a good idea what they are doing weather you agree with it or not, they do have a clue about dogs and their function in Combat. Do you? Sch is not the only way to train a dog, and GSD are not the only breed. Some time you have to open your eyes to the bigger picture and that is the dogs they train are working in places you don't need to know about, and doing things you wouldn't understand. Why, because there is not a point value attached to it. Just lives.


167 days ago, I was sitting at the terminal at BIAP, waiting to catch my bird to Kuwait.

Our dog teams didn't leave with us. They were assigned to our replacements during RIP/TOA.
We did have one Mal, one black Lab, and the rest were GSDs.


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## Connie Sutherland

I was hoping that you were planning to answer the condescending posts directed at a soldier who also trains SchH.... posts like "working in places you don't need to know about, and doing things you wouldn't understand." :roll: 

Because this comment "This whole thread is getting way beyond stupid! Somebody please shut it down!!!!!!" was accurate.


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## Matt Hammond

Connie my point is /Baden has dogs all over the place, and this is not second hand BS I know this for a fact.

Alyssa, for a res MP from Washington you sure are high speed. I am done, tab chasers and one timers love to argue about this and that. The thread was about Baden and dogs, no you are talking about Titan/L3. And not the info you have on me is not currect. 

Mike please lock this and shut her the f#$% up.........


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## Chris McDonald

Please shut it down !!


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## Alyssa Myracle

Matt Hammond said:


> Alyssa, for a res MP from Washington you sure are high speed.


Guard (AGR). And thank you. I pride myself on being a squared-away NCO.



Matt Hammond said:


> I am done, tab chasers and one timers love to argue about this and that.


Love to argue about what? I asked pretty simple questions. Why so defensive?
Not sure how "tab chaser" came into the equation, since I've neither claimed to have a single tab, nor indicated a desire to have one. I'm pretty content with my Basic Aviation Badge and MP Badge. Plenty enough for me.
I guess since you can't discount my arguments, you'll attack the person making them, eh?




Matt Hammond said:


> The thread was about Baden and dogs, no you are talking about Titan/L3.


In passing. Only to point out that Baden/SGI's claims of being some large Defense contractor in Iraq are false, which brings into suspect every other claim made by the company.



Matt Hammond said:


> And not the info you have on me is not currect.


So correct it.


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## Carol Boche

Been following this thread and I agree......it needs to be locked.


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## Mike Scheiber

Carol Boche said:


> Been following this thread and I agree......it needs to be locked.


Don't click=; if it troubles you


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## Alyssa Myracle

Heres an odd little nugget of info:

"Mike McConnery" is a trademarked phrase according to Baden's website.


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## Chris McDonald

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Heres an odd little nugget of info:
> 
> "Mike McConnery" is a trademarked phrase according to Baden's website.


 
Get a Life!


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## Alyssa Myracle

Snappy comeback.


So, is his name Mike Mcconnery, or is it Lloyd Perry?

(hint hint, the Candian government says it's Lloyd Perry)


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## Carol Boche

You're right Mike=D> ....doesn't trouble me at all....it just gets tedious when some of us want to read the discussion about the topic and it turns out when we click that it is not about the topic of the thread at all.....](*,) :mrgreen:


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## Alyssa Myracle

Oops.
That'd be the Canadian government.

Sheesh, you'd think with all my computer skills, I could use spellcheck.


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## Chris McDonald

Alyssa please don’t private message me your like a weird stalker, and don’t speak on the behalf of “We’re all” you are not “We’re all” no one here can respond to this thread anymore.. let it go 

*Mike McConnery*

​
We're all awaiting your response with baited breath.

Did you know his name wasn't really Mike McConnery


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## Gerry Grimwood

I used to think the Baden site was abit "off the wall" , before I read these posts by Alyssa.


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## Alyssa Myracle

Scroll down and observe how many people are watching the thread at any given time.
Hence my "we're all".

Now, do you intend to address my question, or are we going to play more diversion and deflection?


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## Chris McDonald

Men must run from her


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## Alyssa Myracle

http://www.ckc.ca/en/portals/0/pdf/Ineligible_Aug%2031_2007.pdf

Wow. Mike McConnery and his wife, Emmy Lloyd, as well as Baden K9 are banned from participating in any Canadian Kennel Club event.
Interesting.


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## Alyssa Myracle

Chris McDonald said:


> Men must run from her


That'll be the diversion and deflection.


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## Chris McDonald

I don’t think anyone cares about my answer there looking at this like a train wreck


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## Mike Schoonbrood

I'll read the thread tomorrow. Locked for now. I gave it a couple extra hours to play out.


----------

