# Forget Socializing



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I've been fortunate to find a retired expert trainer located here in the outback of Idaho. His name is Jean Claude Balu. He still maintains a website jcbalu.com for anyone that's curious about his credentials.

He has worked bitework with both of my Dutchies. He knows this female's extreme antisocial attitude well. We've even met off site for him to observe her behavior.

His opinion is at 1.5 years old she is what she is and I should forget about any more socializing. He is very impressed with her and told me I could never hope for a better Mal or Dutchie female. He says she has the attitude that I want for Costa Rica and I should not mess around with it any more. In other words unless somebody shoots her she won't take any shit from anybody. This is her natural behavior and really has nothing to do with training.

I've spent a "million" hours socializing this dog to get her to the point she is at now. I'm no expert with this type of dog. I understand she will never be a social dog but I don't want to loose any of the ground I gained with her. Because she is still basically a pup, I think I should continue to keep her as exposed to people as possible.

Opinions?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Are you talking about doing OB under the distraction of people around, or are you talking about people petting and feeding her ??


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Are you talking about doing OB under the distraction of people around, or are you talking about people petting and feeding her ??


I'm not talking about petting or feeding. She will not allow petting anyway. I do OB around people all the time. 

I'm talking about just "hanging out" around other people in general. On rare occasion after I'm speaking with other dog smart people for a while, she has approached them for a sniff. That's about it and then she does her own thing. I think this kind of stuff is good for her.

Balu's opinion, as I understand it, is when company comes over, kennel her. After she matures more, teach her who she can't bite and who she can bite.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Socialize her forever. It will only do her good. 
I can't imagine her ever going soft on strangers. That's just her nature!
As for people comming over (friends/family), that's one thing. If you will constantly have to bee on edge then that particular part may not be worth it.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I've been fortunate to find a retired expert trainer located here in the outback of Idaho. His name is Jean Claude Balu. He still maintains a website jcbalu.com for anyone that's curious about his credentials.
> 
> He has worked bitework with both of my Dutchies. He knows this female's extreme antisocial attitude well. We've even met off site for him to observe her behavior.
> 
> ...


Didn't some people told you already????? 
I know her father very well, remember. I bred and owned him......(and his father/mother/ grandfather.......)

Dick


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I'm not talking about petting or feeding. She will not allow petting anyway. I do OB around people all the time.
> 
> I'm talking about just "hanging out" around other people in general. On rare occasion after I'm speaking with other dog smart people for a while, she has approached them for a sniff. That's about it and then she does her own thing. I think this kind of stuff is good for her. Is it????
> 
> ...


Dick


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Your point is well taken, Dick. I truly understand she will never be social. I never thought about making her insecure. That is a very interesting point that the trainer brought up with different wording.

"Hanging out" was probably the wrong wrong way to put it. I did mean being around a casual group of people at a distance once in a while without her wanting to eat them.

I won't let anything happen to her. She definitely does her father grandfather, etc JUSTICE. There is no doubt she is YOUR dog and I'm proud to have her. 

Thanks for the advice!


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

If Jean Claude said it... I'm inclined to agree.

He taught my husband, and my husband taught me.

(Holy crap, I'm a poet!)

Proof the down stay.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> "Hanging out" was probably the wrong wrong way to put it. I did mean being around a casual group of people at a distance once in a while without her wanting to eat them.


Show me the money :razz:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> If Jean Claude said it... I'm inclined to agree.
> 
> He taught my husband, and my husband taught me.
> 
> ...


That old Frenchman does know his stuff, huh Alyssa. He does have a temper though!

Strangely enough he may end up re-retiring down to Costa Rica. I've been helping him out explaining lots of stuff about C.R. to him and his wife.

If he does go, I can continue with him. He digs my dogs. (almost a poet):smile:


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> That old Frenchman does know his stuff, huh Alyssa. He does have a temper though!
> 
> Strangely enough he may end up re-retiring down to Costa Rica. I've been helping him out explaining lots of stuff about C.R. to him and his wife.
> 
> If he does go, I can continue with him. He digs my dogs. (almost a poet):smile:


 
Lee,

Maybe you could start a new thread explaining lots of things about Costa Rica to some of us others here? I really would like to know. Please. :-D


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Tina Rempel said:


> Lee,
> 
> Maybe you could start a new thread explaining lots of things about Costa Rica to some of us others here? I really would like to know. Please. :-D


I sent you a PM, Tina. :smile:

If anyone else would like to know more just PM me and I will try to answer your questions.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

I would agree with what the others are saying. Ive had some pretty anti-social Dobies and Czech dogs and I have found that they are this way because they are that way. They are doing what they are doing to gain confidence their way, and pushing people onto them is only imprinting in their minds that their intital dislike of people is correct. You dont make a child like eating brussel sprouts by forcing him to eat more of them.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Christopher Jones said:


> I would agree with what the others are saying.


Well, I don't.

I've had a couple of dogs like this and when push came to shove they were just chicken shits, pretty much unable to deal with anyone outside the family or handler, couldn't take em anywhere because they would just lose it around people.

There was a time when I was impressed by a display, and I could be totally wrong here but I believe this could be the case.

There has been lots posted about this particular dog, everybody likes to think their dog is the real deal, maybe Lee has it..maybe not. A dragon isn't really a dragon if only one person has seen it :razz:


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Well, I don't.
> 
> I've had a couple of dogs like this and when push came to shove they were just chicken shits, pretty much unable to deal with anyone outside the family or handler, couldn't take em anywhere because they would just lose it around people.
> 
> ...


We been down this road before. Your dog was unstable and attacked your wife. Sorry Gerry but you are dead wrong! I'm sorry if you had a couple of shitters. There has been 2 different totally unrelated trainers in agreement on this dog. 

You can ask Alyssa about Balu's credentials or take a look at his website and credentials or email him if you like about this dog. Alyssa's husband goes way back with Balu. Balu wanted to buy the dog.

Haven't you been reading any of Dick van Leeuwen's posts? It's her breeding and her nature.

I have 30 days left here. Take a ride down and work her yourself. 

Are you sure you don't have some sour grapes going on?


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Are you sure you don't have some sour grapes going on?


Absolutely not.

I also can't take one breeders opinion that all the dogs bred in their kennel will turn out like the parents, your dog was bred in the US right ??with a female from a different line, so it doesn't even apply.

To a point I've fooled myself about what a dog was showing, I'd like you to prove me wrong.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> I also can't take one breeders opinion that all the dogs bred in their kennel will turn out like the parents, your dog was bred in the US right ??with a female from a different line, so it doesn't even apply.
> 
> To a point I've fooled myself about what a dog was showing, I'd like you to prove me wrong.


I just did! Come on down and I will show you a good time! The trainer does not owe me anything. He is a total hardass who tells it exactly like it is. Alyssa can testify to that. Go ahead, email him! If you want the other trainer who I haven't seen in months I will give you his email too.

You don't have to take my opinion for anything. So unless your coming down or writing some emails I'm done with the nonsense.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I just did! Come on down and I will show you a good time! The trainer does not owe me anything. He is a total hardass who tells it exactly like it is. Alyssa can testify to that. Go ahead, email him! If you want the other trainer who I haven't seen in months I will give you his email too.
> 
> You don't have to take my opinion for anything. So unless your coming down or writing some emails I'm done with the nonsense.


There's no reason to get upset, you don't believe everything you read here do you ?? I hope you are right in your evaluation of your dog..I really do.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> There's no reason to get upset, you don't believe everything you read here do you ?? I hope you are right in your evaluation of your dog..I really do.


I said I was done but I just could not resist. I've been a transparent open book about this dog. I spent lots of this on the forum, PM's and emails. I don't walk around thinking I have the best dog God created. My male would be that except his tale is a little crooked. :smile:

I received some great advice here.

My evaluation IS NOT JUST MY OPINION! 

Nothing could make me upset right now. I'm a short time away from laying on a deserted beach with my ice chest next to me. \\/


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Well, I don't.
> 
> I've had a couple of dogs like this and when push came to shove they were just chicken shits, pretty much unable to deal with anyone outside the family or handler, couldn't take em anywhere because they would just lose it around people.
> 
> ...


Im not giving an opinion on whether his dogs are great or not. I cant make that decission if I havent seen them. I am just saying that I agree with other people on how to address this situation, and like I said, you dont fix it by forcing people on them. Let them mature and gain confidence their way. Alot of people will give these types of dogs civil bites, teaching them they are stronger than people, you then see their levels of defence drop. But hey, each to their own.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Normally, I happily stand in line to call bullshit on "serious dog" claims... 
BUT, I know Balu's attitude towards dogs.

If he is convinced that the dog is the real deal, that's enough for me.

'Round about 1978, Balu flat told my husband he had an absolute POS dog. Total shitter. My husband had been ripped off, sold a "protection" dog that was crap. Big bark, and not much else.

Note that Balu, despite being a breeder at the time, did NOT offer to sell my husband a dog.
Instead, he had my husband put on a suit, and start learning how to read dogs. Then he sent him out to find his OWN dog.

My husband ended up with a Liver GSD. He and Balu trained the dog together down in California.
In the end, my husband had a very ugly, very outside the breed standard, very REAL personal protection dog.

Worthless as a family dog, but damned good at everything else.
Took more than one live bite, protecting the limo business my husband ran at the time.
BROKE arms, and this little liver bitch got hurt several times, and never let go.

In the end, my husband had to sell her, because he had a brand new son, and it just wouldn't have worked out well... so Balu took the dog for awhile, and eventually sold her to a client.

All in all, Balu is one of the FEW trainers I would trust to tell me a dog really is serious.
B'sides, anyone who can curse the paint off a barn wall in French and NOT sound gay, is pretty cool in my book... even if he is older'n dinosaur shit.

Re-retire to Costa Rica... little survivalist left in ol' JC yet, eh?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks Alyssa. I hope he does move down to C.R. Balu is painfully honest. He jumps all over me all the time when I screw up. He is a hell of a teacher.:smile:


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Thanks Alyssa. I hope he does move down to C.R. Balu is painfully honest. He jumps all over me all the time when I screw up. He is a hell of a teacher.:smile:


My kind of guy.......:mrgreen: :mrgreen:  (so he is an european pain in the **** also.. I feel a connection....:-\" )

:-D :-D Dick


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> My kind of guy.......:mrgreen: :mrgreen:  (so he is an european pain in the **** also.. I feel a connection....:-\" )
> 
> :-D :-D Dick


Hey Dick, take a look a this old Frenchman's website. He's got a interesting resume. He has a hell of a temper. When he gets really pissed the French curse words roll out easy. I have no idea what he's saying but it certainly gets my attention. His website is jcbalu.com, click on "who we are"


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

=; [-X I might add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being older then dinosaur shit!


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> =; [-X I might add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being older then dinosaur shit!


Can you cuss in French??


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hell! My English sucks! Just ask any Brit! :-o 
Only thing I know in French is......well...... :-k That doesn't count! :-D :wink:


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> =; [-X I might add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being older then dinosaur shit!


One of the many reasons to love JC... and Bob for that matter.

Old is cool.

What's creepy is, the guy is even older than most people think.

He was *OLD* in 1975 when he opened his first school.
This guy was in the military in the 40s.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I think he's a young 73 years old. He has titled pretty much everything but a horse. Most people don't recognize his name because his hey day was in the 70's through early 90's.


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

I enjoyed reading the who we are page you suggested Lee. :verycool:
I wonder if Ellis has any of those Mals in his beginning breeding program. Just a wonder...some of Balus mals look "familiar" lol.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I don't know about Ellis, Michele. I believe most of Balu's Mals are the French variety. His personal dog now is very serious. He never takes his eyes off me for one second when I'm around. He stares me down. It's kind of unsettling.


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