# shyness and ability to do protection phase



## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm discovering that my Mal is even more shy than i thought. She tugs and gets excited and has good drive with me but put the same toy in front of her with a stranger and she wants mommy. She'll do it to an extent but is distracted.

any hope?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

virginia reed said:


> I'm discovering that my Mal is even more shy than i thought. She tugs and gets excited and has good drive with me but put the same toy in front of her with a stranger and she wants mommy. She'll do it to an extent but is distracted.
> 
> any hope?



How old? You mostly likely will have issues but keep working at building confidence. Play play play....


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## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

4 years/acquired as an adult/good girl but shy


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No. try agility, as that is a mommy based sport, and the tug play issue will be gone.


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## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

no - tried agility - i don't like it for some reason - not sturctured enough, maybe?

but i do think that she's not suited for the protection phase so i think i'll just go for the OB titles


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

How long have you had her?
What do your club members think/say?
It's not going to hurt her to continue trying since you'll continue with OB (and tracking?) anyway--like was said, play play play. Get a good helper with the tug on a line and go for it! Praise like crazy if she even looks at the helper. 

(can you tell I'm not one to throw in the towel so easily? lol)


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## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanks for your positive ideas. You make a good point - doesn't hurt to keep working her with it.

I'm a new club member but the main helper sees the problem too. I think she'd do well if i was the handler AND the helper - lol!

i've had her several years now. I've always seen her as a shy dog but now that i see how the GSD's are in my club (ie naturally gregarious) - i see that her shyness with strangers is quite inhibitory when it comes to being comfortable with strangers (helpers) being around.

Now i see why people buy "bloodlines."


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

Right on the bloodlines. I, by no means am saying go out and breed your dog if you get her going on the helper! lol. But I'm just in the SchH for fun anyway. It'd be good for your girl to try at least and work through it, especially since she has so much fun with you.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Confidence building will never hurt, whether it's done at the Sch club, agility field, herding field, or just the local park. You may decide she's not suitable for the protection phase of Sch, but you can still have the people in the club help you with the tugging issue just to help build her confidence for life in general. And maybe she will start to have fun and be able to do club level protection work. If your club doesn't mind taking the time to work with her, then I see no reason not to since you are out there anyway working on the obedience and tracking phases. When you get your next dog the experience you are getting now working in the A/B phases will help you train your next dog.

For dogs like your girl I usually do the following. I take a long tug, the ones that are about 3 feet long with a handle on each end. I get the dog very excited and play some tug with them, while another person stands next to me. When the dog is really into it, I hand one end of the tug to the other person who starts playing tug with the dog. They either let the dog win, or hand the tug back to me. And you progress from there until you have multiple people passing the dog around while it's on the tug. Eventually they "up the anti" by petting her while she's on the tug, letting her win then encouraging her to come back and re-engage them instead of taking it to you, etc. If need be put a leash on the tug so when you do the hand off it's not quite as personal, also so when the person lets her win they can bring her back to them to play more vs her taking the tug straight to you.

And I'll second what someone else said, if you do get her working, don't forget what she's like now, she's not a good candidate for breeding.


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## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanks Kadi - great idea! btw - she's already spayed.

I think that's what her problem is - she wasn't exposed to enough different experiences in her puppyhood and youg life and is not solid in those areas.

I know i made that mistake with some puppies i had once. I thought they didn't need to "get out" because we lived on 80 acres. So they knew nothing and when they went to the vet - they were very frightened.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Now that is good advice Kadi. 
The dog is not breeding material but, she's in the world, and biting can make her stronger and, as you say give the handler a chance to see what it's all about.

My congratulations to any helper who has the generosity to work with such a dog.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Problem dogs can be fun to work. Odds are she will warm up to one helper. Then if you take her to a new field with a new helper, you can start from scratch. So if you find someone willing to work her, make sure they're sticking around for a while!


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## Michele McAtee (Apr 10, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Now that is good advice Kadi.


Ditto. I really liked how you spelled that out Kadi.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Have you tried putting some distance between you and the tug? I mean attaching the tug to the end (assuming it has a handle) of a horse lunge whip and let her chase it while you drag it and whip it around on the ground. You could attach a leash to one end instead. When she engages, tug with the whip or leash and gradually decrease the distance when she is comfortable.

Sorry, didn't see Kadi's post that included the leash.


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## Leri Hanson (Apr 3, 2008)

I know a fellow who had a fairly shy Mali pup. The pup would bite well on him but showed strong fearful behavior on others. He continued to do his own work for quite some time. This young dog now (2.5 maybe?) recently won a Protection dog Tournament and earned his SchH 1. 

I'm normally always on the "under dogs" side (ie: special needs, confidence building, etc.) but the fact your girl is already 4 gives me a little lless hope. 

Kadi's suggestion is great and I've seen her have good success with it! I also like the other idea about distance on the tug during play. Even a 4-6 foot leash attached to a tug or rag flirted around makes for great fun to almost all dogs. 

Puppy circles (even for older inexperienced dogs) can be helpful too.

Good luck and love that girl up


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Tugging and bite work with a helper who is willing to do it will benefit any dog, me seems.

However, be absolutely sure in your mind that such a dog will never be a strong biting dog for ANY protection sports. Any good advice as to how it could get there is pointless.

Here, we used to say that any dog who wouldn't / couldn't bite would be good for SAR, FH, KH, SH, etc. Forget it. They lose out here too, in my mind.

We don't all have to go to ballet, after all. Only the symphlike creatures make it


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