# Little Recall Work



## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

Okay, please don't kill me! 

My dog is not a working dog, he is not in any sports - all I am striving for is a well trained house pet at this time. I don't really have anyone to train with, so I make do with what I have.

In this video I threw the ball for Axle, he is more tug driven then ball driven but he will still chase and enjoy a ball as a reward. With that being said, the goal was to call him off chasing the ball and recall. Any constructive criticism is welcome, I know this video is EXTREMELY short but to me it's a big deal. We've only been working on it for 2 days with the remote collar only. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tvYGOUbbKc


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I don't do sport dog stuff but it looked nice to me. My question is did you thumb the collar to get that response on the segment taped?

I was taught that the collar is used to fine-tune what you have already taught. Not to teach it in the first place. So the second question is will the dog to the same recall while not wearing the collar? And on a consistent basis?

If the answers are no, yes, and yes respectively then you have definitely got a solid recall. And if you can do it under all circumstances..... then you have a proofed recall. 

Still a nice video.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

Sarah Platts said:


> I don't do sport dog stuff but it looked nice to me. My question is did you thumb the collar to get that response on the segment taped?
> 
> I was taught that the collar is used to fine-tune what you have already taught. Not to teach it in the first place. So the second question is will the dog to the same recall while not wearing the collar? And on a consistent basis?
> 
> ...


Yes he was stim'ed on a 6 (out of 100), I have not tried to recall with no collars on although I should. Yes he will however recall consistently, I do not let him be off some sort of collar. Just personal choices, I should however work more on proofing with no correction collars. Would be curious how to do this properly though...

I do understand that the eCollar is used to fine tune commands, in this case I did use it incorrectly. I did thumb the eCollar, my reasoning might not be agreeable by some but hey - I'll put it out there. I could be wrong how I do my stimming as well, he was stim'ed from when I gave the command to when he turned around. Realistically I should give him the chance to comply with no correction, that is wrong of me.

In an instance like this, I would rather not hook my dog up to a prong collar with a leash, toss a ball and hope he doesn't get to the end of it and possibly hurt himself. I know his recall is good, with the eCollar I feel it is safer for me to proof it in situations as such. I do this because I have never been taught any other way, everything beyond sit and down is new to me.


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

nothing wrong with how you are using the collar. you dont have to give your dog a chance to comply. you are teaching him how to turn it off. the quicker he listens the faster the stim turns off. 

be interesting to see his response without a stim though. sometimes dogs who are lightning quick on the ecollar suddenly have to have commands repeated a few times without it on. 

for me i'd rather just throw a ball and recall him and the moment he turns to look at me i whip out a tug and make it move. teach the dog coming back to you is better than chasing the ball.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

John Ly said:


> nothing wrong with how you are using the collar. you dont have to give your dog a chance to comply. you are teaching him how to turn it off. the quicker he listens the faster the stim turns off.
> 
> be interesting to see his response without a stim though. sometimes dogs who are lightning quick on the ecollar suddenly have to have commands repeated a few times without it on.
> 
> for me i'd rather just throw a ball and recall him and the moment he turns to look at me i whip out a tug and make it move. teach the dog coming back to you is better than chasing the ball.


Thanks John, would I be ruining training if I tried it with no collars? Also should I be marking with a "YES!" as soon as he turns away from the ball?


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

No, I don't think you are doing anything wrong but, I personally, don't start with an ecollar. I know I taught recalls with the dog on a flat collar and a 100ft rope. I'd throw the ball or not but could reel him in if he didn't recall (I didn't have an ecollar then) Lots of practice, lots of work in the park. Later I got an ecollar and incorporated it but made several mistakes initially and now I use it but rarely and mostly for specific habits or situations and I try to wean it off as quick as I can.

anyway, that's just my take. I would make returning to me more fun and a better place to be at. Food, toys, praise, etc. There's nothing wrong with your method and it's getting you the results you want. But the acid test is when you take the collar off and see if you get the same behaviors.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

I understand Sarah, his recall with no call off is solid. Normally I'm forced to put him in a wait then call him. Occasionally we will be strolling through the ball field park (always on a 15ft lead) I will call him to me and reward. 

Anyone have any creative solutions for proofing the recall in different scenarios?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Put a bowl of food down at a distance so that he has to go to it. Send him to it. Call him back before he gets there. Try it later once he's started eating. Obviously, that's just one of several things you can do with him. BTW he looks pretty thick, what's he weigh?


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

Nicole Stark said:


> Put a bowl of food down at a distance so that he has to go to it. Send him to it. Call him back before he gets there. Try it later once he's started eating. Obviously, that's just one of several things you can do with him. BTW he looks pretty thick, what's he weigh?


That's the first I've ever heard someone say he looks thick! Haha most of the time people say he's malnourished. Axle weighs 59.8lbs to be exact, we were nervous for awhile because we would put food down and he wouldn't eat it right up but he feeds himself when he's hungry. We're okay with it, I don't think the food idea would work unfortunately for that reason.

Someone posted up that they thought that this website was dying...so here's some food for thought and input is welcome. I was on the phone with someone who wants me to come train with him, we were discussing my current training of "recalling" or in his words "calling off". His thoughts were that I need to train a different word for the call off... We're currently using the same "recall" word as we are for "call off". Should I need to train a different word? Is it confusing to him or does the value of getting a higher valued reward (tug toy) outweigh that?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Very nice!

#1 I wouldn't do a recall more then one out of ten or you can slow down the run after the ball. 

#2 Absolutely "Yes" and reward for the turn. Actually mark and reward the return any time during the run back. 

#3 When you do start proofing off the collar don't take the collar off..just in case.

#4 When you do take the collar off make a short throw. The further the dog is away from you the more chances for distraction and not stopping.
Make the throw random distances in any case even now.

Simply make the recall the most important thing it the dog's life and you'll do well.


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

Rob Maltese said:


> Thanks John, would I be ruining training if I tried it with no collars? Also should I be marking with a "YES!" as soon as he turns away from the ball?


if you're training him to turn off the stim with the ecollar then i would just be consistent with it. i'd only take the ecollar off if the dog is consistent and reliable for about a month. just make sure to put the collar on an hour or two before training and leave it on an hour or two after training so the dog doesnt become collar smart. dog needs to know the stim can come with or without the collar on. 

why are you training a call off for a pet dog?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: recall vid
decided to post online since i believe a recall is one of the most important commands to teach/proof

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i see no reason for giving a double command :
No - Come

1. why make the dog process/interpret two sounds ?
2. the No is obviously some negative marker (No, don't run away ?)
3. the proper response to that (negative marker) would be an immediate stop which is impractical and almost physically impossible, plus the Come was given almost immediately after the NO which allows even less time for full compliance to the "No"
4. if the recall is Come, just give it.....if taught progressively the dog should know that command means :
-Come back to me now-
...regardless of what it is doing at the time

K.I.S.S principle 


when i DO give negative markers, i ensure the animal is given time to process it and stop what it is doing and show me that it is waiting for another command.....
- for me, when given some time to respond, it's easy to see if the animal is understanding the negative marker i'm giving
- and for me it is a STRONG negative that will be rapidly followed by a correction if ignored, so i plan in advance to have a way of correcting if the animal ignores the NO


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

John Ly said:


> why are you training a call off for a pet dog?


I guess I'll reply with a why not? That reply isn't meant to be a smart ass either. I can think of many situations where it might come in handy in fact I almost lost my dog to him chasing the ball into the road with a lazy recall that's what opened my eyes to see I needed to put in some quality work. 

Just a few situations that can commonly happen around here...
- Chasing squirrels
- Chasing bunnies
- Chasing balls when emergency comes up. 

Often times we walk around a wooded park area with him on the remote collar, if I see an animal that I don't want him to get involved with I will call him off whatever it is he is doing and return to me. Some might just consider that a well trained recall, I am fine with that. Regardless of what it's called, I just want to know it is 110% there.

Rick, would you suggest just saying "Axle Come" rather then the negative marker?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i thought i specifically answered the "why not" part 

i teach a one word recall for dogs.
- it applies for any situation i want the dog to get back to my side
- and i don't care if they are moving off in another direction, chasing something, or just scanning the horizon from a distance while sitting on their butt
- if i want them to do something else when they get back (sit/down/fus/front or whatever) that will be another (one word) command

sorry, but that's as clear as i can get ... using words 

do whatever works for you. my post was mainly directed at what i considered the use of two words for one command


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## John Ly (Mar 26, 2014)

I guess just a difference in terminology. In my mind you can't call a dog off unless you're purposely sending it towards a target/spot. 

Use the ecollar to stop the crittering. Don't have to call your dog off stuff if he doesn't chase in the first place.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

Thank you all for the feed back,

Met with a K9 Officer I'm friends with to do some training, ran into some issues with his recall & distraction work. Just more to work on for sure!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"why are you training a call off for a pet dog?'


For the very best of reasons. The dog's safety. 

Yes, you don't need the call off if the dog is never allowed to chase something but $#!+ happens and there is no command, IMHO, better then being able to stop a dog in it's tracks with a solid command. 

I've done it with most of my hunt terriers when they decide to chase a rabbit, squirrel, deer, etc when in the field and I've done it with My GSDs. One in particular was on a dead run right on the butt of a farm cat that just cut his nose with a big slap in the face. 

A "QUIT" works in every situation I've came across and I've never used an e-collar.


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

Obedience Routine 10/9/14

Please cut me slack for this is my first time recording myself on film during our training. I am open for constructive criticism as always, please keep in mind we are not training for a sport or anything special right now - simply working on obedience and getting that 110% before we consider any other options. I noticed a few things myself that could use some improvement and I am interested to see what everyone else picks up on.

I am planning on purchasing a GoPro as soon as funds will allow, this is my coworkers and it was a BLAST messing around with. Any questions please don't hesitate to ask. 

I did pm a moderator to request my thread be changed to a simple video tracking thread to show my progression and for feedback purposes, hopefully they're okay with that. Thanks folks!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

good session, but....
if you want to improve i don't think you should start off by asking everyone to cut you some slack and saying you are "only" working on ,,,,,,,etc etc 
..... and you should be able to recognize whether the critique is constructive or not //lol//

what i am implying is that a post that says "nice work", "nice dog", won't help you get any better 

imo, much of what distinguishes good training from great training is the attention to detail
- so i never cut slack even when i am starting out with a first time session with a first time dog owner 

and easier to critique a vid if you set up with the camera closer to what you are doing so you can see the details, watch the dog's body language and hear the commands, etc
- it's also good distraction training for the dog
- and thanks for not adding a head banger soundtrack to drown out the training

is that enuff slack ?? //lol//


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Alright, that's fair Rick. Rob asked for feedback, so I will offer my thoughts. The first is that when I saw how long the video was I thought this better be a damn good video to keep my attention for that long. I opened it and noticed the distance at which it was shot and closed it after 15 seconds. I have no other comments to offer.

Hey Rick, I'd rather listen to metal any day over wind or mouth breathing. Sometimes music makes a video more tolerable. With respect to situations like this where feedback is being solicited, music isn't appropriate. But in others where feedback is not asked for no comment should be offered if you object to the music. It's almost like me inviting you over to my house for a visit and you telling me you don't like the color of my carpet. If you chose to accept the invite, then I presume there would be a reasonable expectation of tolerance on your behalf for such things.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Ditch the collar use two balls 

cool dog by the way


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## Rob Maltese (Jan 8, 2014)

Matt Vandart said:


> Ditch the collar use two balls
> 
> cool dog by the way


Haha thanks Matt, I'm brave but not that brave yet - he's still young, only a year and a half. I'm happy where he is at his age, I know there is plenty of room for improvement.


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