# Guard Dogs



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Ever hear of a Lab being used as an effective guard dog? What happens when the bar is raised and it has to deliver? Genetically it can't in my book. An alert dog yes, true guard dog no. Bob is big on the JRT...


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

My Golden Ret has backed a friend of mine into the corner. The guy is 6'3" and abt 280 lbs. Now I truly doubt that if he needed to protect he could do it. He just does not have what it takes. When the fit his the shan I think the Golden would out run me getting away from the threat.

Terry


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

My previous lab was the perfect "watch dog". He'd distinquish from cars passing by and cars pulling into my drive. A car door slam brought forth the barks. A knock on the door, the door bell or just him hearing someone outside the house would start him barking. He sounded very intimidating. Beyond that, he was harmless. From my perspective, all I needed was a few seconds warning, then I'd take over, if protection was needed. He respnded like that if either my wife or I were home. I don't know how he reacted when we weren't home. Didn't really care, that's what insurance is for. My current Lab, the retired cadaver dog, would try to get an intruder to feed him before they left. 

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ever read about dogs saving their owners by biting the bad guy ?? There are a lot of labs and lab mixes.


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

I don't know why a yellow lab would be any different than a black lab, but I have met 3 different yellow labs that would bite in protective situations, but I have never met a black one that I would count on to be there.


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## Jason Moore (May 3, 2009)

IMO thats like saying that a sable shepherd protects better than a black and tan. For it is not that uncommon to see yellow chocolate and black labs in the same litter so what would make the yellows a better protecter. I'm not saying in your case that it didn't happen. But I don't see that being the case for the entire breed.


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Not if it's a 'correct' lab. 
It would go completely against the nature they're renown for....a soft mouth and pliable disposition of the same character.

One may find a guardian in the Chesapeake though.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We had a lab that would have passed USPCA PD I certification. I don't know that I ever would have said it was a patrol dog. It's that genetic soft mouth. It's part of the breeding, part of the beauty of the lab. That isn't to say there aren't ones that won't bite. I have 5 yellow labs. You'd be hard pressed to make one bite you. That said, the only law suit we've paid because of a dog was a yellow lab. It knocked over an 89 year old lady, just trying to say hello. It really wasn't a law suit as more of a civil claim, paid immediately in addition to the handler doing her grocery shopping and mowing her yard.

DFrost


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lee Robinson said:


> I don't know why a yellow lab would be any different than a black lab, but I have met 3 different yellow labs that would bite in protective situations, but I have never met a black one that I would count on to be there.


A Denver Colorado Veterinarian put a SchH III on a black Lab
a few years back. Dr. Gerald Pasek, titled a black lab to SchH3 back in the early 80's. It isn't what you would call usual - but it can be done...

Also in 1995 Petra Sporrer was the vice champion at the DHV Meisterschaft with a LAB and scored 290. I've seen some tough ass Chessies who I'm sure could be titled


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## Lee Robinson (Jun 22, 2009)

Jason, I hear ya and I agree with you...and I am aware that you can get yellows and blacks in the same litter. Choc too I believe...and although there are labs everywhere in society I don't work labs in PP work obviously since the breed isn't developed for that. I was just sharing an observation I have made with a few yellows over the years, but MOST of the labs I have met (and all of the black labs I have met) though act like they have never met a stranger.


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## Julie Argo (Feb 22, 2009)

I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of anyone using a Chessie for PP? I know Labs are known for their even temperment, but I was wondering about the Chessies. I've known a few that were very aggressive and protective.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I know a guy in MN that has a Chessie that is bite trained


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## Michele Fleury (Jun 4, 2009)

Back in 2000 I met some conservation LE from Canada that were using Labs as patrol dogs, and they were trained to bite. They said they did not like Shepherds because they were too intimidating and they didn't like that image. :-s


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Julie Argo said:


> I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of anyone using a Chessie for PP? I know Labs are known for their even temperment, but I was wondering about the Chessies. I've known a few that were very aggressive and protective.


It's de je vue all over again. There was a thread about Chessies somewhere. We have one that incapacitated my assistant trainer. IT's one mean and stout dog. It's a single purpose drug dog with a serious attitude. 

DFrost


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Late 80's, early 90's there was Janet Birk and her SchH 3 Chessie "Jason".


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

My husband's last Lab was a very serious dog. He'd bitten several people. He could be sweet and friendly, but any stranger that put their hand into my husband's vehicle ended up with holes in their hand. No doubt he was our only dog at the time that I ever would have bet on biting an intruder if somebody broke into our home.

He was also terribly food aggressive.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

David Frost said:


> We have one that incapacitated my assistant trainer. IT's one mean and stout dog. It's a single purpose drug dog with a serious attitude.
> 
> DFrost


Yikes David! I've heard that about their attitudes but I thought it was more about a few dogs/lines, than a breed thing. Guess not!

How about the oil slick they leave when they get up from laying down?!?!? I'd pass on that alone...even for a kennel dog.


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## Sidney Johnsen (May 31, 2009)

My mom has a Lab at her place in town.. good on the alert, useless for anything else. Will bark if someone comes to the door, and admittedly -- he does sound pretty big and mean, but as soon as you open the door to talk to the person, he'll go run and hide in the other room.

I picked up an Akita/Malamute mix from the pound a couple of weeks ago (because I'm a sucker with a soft heart), and boy has that dog shocked me. Had an intruder try to come up over the wood fence and onto the deck yesterday, and that dog came outta no-where and sure put up an impressive spectacle. I honestly think if the guy had made it over the fence before the dogs heard him, he might be missing a few pieces. Never would'a thought it if I hadn't seen it myself.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I've told this story before . We had a very tough Chessie detector dog in the unit . The handler was getting promoted and the dog retired . On their last day I got in a bitesuit (dog had never bitten a suit , sleeve , nothing other then it's handler before ). 

He took it for a walk and I jumped out on them . After a little aggitation the handler dropped the lead and the dog came at me no problem . The dog really bit down hard when he heard his handler encouraging him . I'm pretty sure and the other trainers agreed , that that dog would have made a good patrol dog . 

On the flip side I trained my last hunting dog (Black Lab) to take a hidden sleeve and look intimidating at the end of a 6' leash but he would never do it for real . He'd bring a badguy a kong before he'd attack them . It was all just a game to him and it took awhile for him to commit on the sleeve but eventually he did . The neighbors were intimidated though .

It would be a rarity to find a Lab with the goods to be a Patrol Dog .


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Michele Fleury said:


> Back in 2000 I met some conservation LE from Canada that were using Labs as patrol dogs, and they were trained to bite. They said they did not like Shepherds because they were too intimidating and they didn't like that image. :-s



What province/region was that in?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've seen more then a few Labs with attitude. Seems being the #1 AKC breed in the USA has brought out a lot of incorrect dogs.
The Chessie is just BA!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Lee Robinson said:


> I don't know why a yellow lab would be any different than a black lab, but I have met 3 different yellow labs that would bite in protective situations, but I have never met a black one that I would count on to be there.


Just watch the Mexican dog trainer 80% of the dogs on his show bite or are trying to bite someone or something.
Lee you could save yourself a lot of trouble and follow him around and get some of these little naturals plugged into your breeding program.Prolly sell like hot cakes and who knows you may become famous.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

I second that a Chessie is a far more sure bet than a lab.

That said, despite that I've had literally hundreds of traditional "working dogs" pass through my kennel, one of the most dangerous dogs I've ever owned was a male yellow lab. He was out of very strong working retriever lines but had a screw loose somewhere. Part of why I considered him so dangerous was because he was a Lab and people assume labs will be friendly. The dog came to me after permanately re-arranging a child's face and then repeatedely charging and biting the child's parents for coming close to her as he tried to drag her into a nearby bedroom (how he made it out of the owner's home, I have no idea). He was rediculously dominant and territorial and would sustain blind, frenzied aggression if challenged at all. Certainly not normal, definitely not desirable but he was one crazy, dangerous SOB and would unquestionably have mauled someone for coming onto my property.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

When talking about the Lab and breed specific behavior, they are not the breed people use for protection, police work (apprehension portion), guard dogs etc. Sure as with any breed there are those anomolies. There are GSD/Mals etc that won't bite. 

DFrost


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I guess I should back up by saying my farming neighbor has a nasty yellow Lab. But I have seen very few that would make true in the sh&t protection dogs. Understand that I also live in the Atlantic flyway, waterfowl hunt, and know of a few Lab folks...

Candy said something about the 1980s...now that was a time when I saw some NASTY Chessies and the ones bred in the 60' and early 70s were just junkyard mean. Eat you, your lunch, mama's lunch...didn't matter. This is a breed that in my book can do much, if the right lines are found. 

I owned two, and against the advise of my vet, I bought them and got rid of them within 6 month. The temperament wasn't good, and was supported by a vet who does field trial work with Labs.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Jay watched his friends choc. lab. This is one BIG dog. It took both of us to feed him. I would get his attention while Jay would get his food bowl. They were only away for a few days and really we only needed a bowl for each day. That way we wouldn't have to go on to their back deck. That dog scared me.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Jay watched his friends choc. lab. This is one BIG dog. It took both of us to feed him. I would get his attention while Jay would get his food bowl. They were only away for a few days and really we only needed a bowl for each day. That way we wouldn't have to go on to their back deck. That dog scared me.


 So, Jay can't handle is* hot chocolate*! LOLOLOLOLOL Lightweight! :evil:
I got remarked very well by a yellow Lab mix about 3 years ago. NEVER been bit before, but this SOB got my right wrist and could have done some real damage if I hadn't come seconds from choking it out. Grabbed the prong collar and rolled it into the dog's neck for all I was worth. :-x


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

If the dog had been serious, it would have sunk 'em gum deep before you grabbed hold of the collar. 

DFrost


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

David Frost said:


> If the dog had been serious, it would have sunk 'em gum deep before you grabbed hold of the collar.
> 
> DFrost


 Thanks Frost! In fact, the little fuc%er did just that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! K-9 tattoos for life. Seven punctures and 3 majors...thank God they missed the major lines that keep me going. An ice pack of frozen peas, two cold beers, and some down time later...it's all good now. \\/


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> ... thank God they missed the major lines that keep me going. ...


The alcohol IV?





JK. :lol:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> The alcohol IV?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 They have such a thing? 8-[


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> They have such a thing? 8-[



You didn't know???????

DFrost


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Jay watched his friends choc. lab. This is one BIG dog. It took both of us to feed him. I would get his attention while Jay would get his food bowl. They were only away for a few days and really we only needed a bowl for each day. That way we wouldn't have to go on to their back deck. That dog scared me.


I used to house-sit for our neighbors and they had a MEAN MEAN Black Lab. I was the ONLY person besides them that could come in their house as long as I said her name first and got her to come to me, we were fine. She was alright as soon as I was in the door and she recongnized me. There was one day that she didn't and I'll be damned if she didn't eat her food off the floor. lol lol The next day she was fine again. I had to stand outside with her and watch her go potty as she would get out and tree runners etc. 

Honestly, that's the only breed that I'd never search out for is a Lab. I've seen plenty of nasty Chessies as well. Chessies seem to have a little more commitment than a Lab though. 

Courtney


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