# Laekenois drive?



## Chloe Bibby (Mar 5, 2016)

Hi! 

I have been discussing with my friend laekenois and malis. 

I have no experience with laekenois, but she has worked as a pet trainer with both varieties. 

She has said she likes laekenois over malinois because they have more drive than malinois. 

And this has me really sceptical. 

She says the reason they are not seen in bitework is because they are rare, not because malis are more suited for work. 

I am wondering if anyone has any personal anecdotes for the variety in regards to their drive, as I am really finding it hard to believe and would prefer to hear anecdotes from different people.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I have seen a few Mals and a few Tervs, and a Groen or two, trialing, but I have only ever seen one Lakenois. They are so rare here, I could not form an opinion. Where are you that they are so common, or Mals so much rarer that your friend can form such an opinion? 

Perhaps she is right, but if so, why are there not more of them? Surely if they were superior working dogs, someone would be breeding and competing with them in some venue.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

There are shit mals as in any breed, but don't think a pet trainer have seen real working mals before to form such an opinion.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

You bring up a good point Khoi. In fact, I'd suspect that if the only perspective this individual has is from a pet standpoint they may feel entirely justified in holding that opinion.

That said, I am curious as well about what Leslie asked.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Pet. show and working lines are WORLDS apart with most any breed! 

With that said I've never seen a Laekenois in any dog sport, venture, etc in my many yrs in the dog world.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Yea, she's probably seen the FCI Mals. I've seen a few and they can be shite. Seen more drive in a Wiener dog than some FCI Mals. Breeding for looks kills the working dog.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

When I was doing natural earth work with my terriers I've dug to a couple mini - Wiener dogs. 

Bad ass little mofos but they didn't want anyone to pull them out other then their owners.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

When I was teaching tracking classes to local civvies I had an older guy in the class with a young long haired mini wiener dog. That little sucker could track. It was the perfect combo as the pace was just right for an elderly handler. We trained in the mornings and that little dog would end up soaking wet every time while the bigger dogs just got their lower legs wet.

Also, a student paid for the classes before the business owner realized she was a spy for a local competing business. That lady gave me all kinds of a hard time. I remained calm and taught the class. She had a Flat Coat Retriever with a great nose. She had been trying to get a tracking title on the dog since she got it but no success. At the end of 5 week class she left the field and a few days later got her title. She called me to let me know...then apologized for being such a bitch. True story.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

lol, I guess a bitch feels remorse.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Khoi Pham said:


> lol, I guess a bitch feels remorse.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> When I was teaching tracking classes to local civvies I had an older guy in the class with a young long haired mini wiener dog. That little sucker could track. It was the perfect combo as the pace was just right for an elderly handler. We trained in the mornings and that little dog would end up soaking wet every time while the bigger dogs just got their lower legs wet.
> 
> Also, a student paid for the classes before the business owner realized she was a spy for a local competing business. That lady gave me all kinds of a hard time. I remained calm and taught the class. She had a Flat Coat Retriever with a great nose. She had been trying to get a tracking title on the dog since she got it but no success. At the end of 5 week class she left the field and a few days later got her title. She called me to let me know...then apologized for being such a bitch. True story.





the history of the wire and the long hair Dasch is a spaniel cross to get the long hair and a terrier cross to get the wire coat.

ALL of the Dachs are tough little dogs and the name Dachund means Badger dog because that was their original quarry.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

ha ha that's funny Khoi.


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## Chloe Bibby (Mar 5, 2016)

Well, she has met a few malis from a working breeder I know too who has strong working dogs, and still has the opinion. 
Though who knows the temperament of the malis she has seen. 

I also am not sure how she knows enough laekenois to form the opinion...

I also think if they were superior to malinois, they would be seen more often than they are. 
But she thinks that they are not seen as often as malis simply because they are not as common. 

I honestly cannot imagine it. The malis I have met have incredible intense drive, I cannot imagine as a pet trainer how you would quantify the sheer drive and which dog has more...


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Laekenois are bred out of Mali's, there are no longer any "real" Laekenois left.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

What's a "real" Laekenois anyway? All four types are supposed to be one breed, with variations in coat type and colour. Is there a difference between a long coat GSD and a short coat? What if they were born in the same litter? 

Only in the US, where Belgians are considered four separate breeds do you get "fluffy" Malinois. In Canada, one breed, four types, if it was long coated, it would be a Terv. 

They are different, so where does the difference in temperament come from? Is it linked to coat type, or is it that breeders are selecting for different traits along with coat type? 

Pretty hard to argue with the trainer's opinion - Laekenois are so rare, there's very little evidence to back it up or refute it, aside from the fact that if they were so great, someone would be breeding and competing with at least a few of them somewhere.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Laekenois were bred to guard the bleacher fields, not sheep. They were all killed in either WW1 or WW2 and they were bred back through malinois.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Interesting. Thanks.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Matt Vandart said:


> Laekenois were bred to guard the bleacher fields, not sheep. They were all killed in either WW1 or WW2 and they were bred back through malinois.


 What are bleacher fields?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Thank goodness that I'm not the only word challenged person today. I wondered the same thing about these bleacher fields and then somehow ending up getting mixed up in Sefi's bubles. I still haven't figured that out or Matt's bleacher fields.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ditto on the Bleacher fields!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

No personal experience but from what I've been reading they have a number of health issues such as Epilepsy, HD, and a number of other health issues.

More then many breeds? 

I have no idea.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Bleacher fields is where the massive cotton sheets would be spread out to dry after bleaching.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> Bleacher fields is where the massive cotton sheets would be spread out to dry after bleaching.


Thank goodness that's the case! I thought for sure that you were talking about the fields where all the drunks go to puke. :twisted:


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

There are two owned by the same woman in my obedience/protection class. The woman tried the protection part with at least one of them and told me he wasn't very interested in it. I haven't asked about her other one, but I haven't seen her try protection. She admits she likes them for their rarity and wants to breed them to preserve the breed. I wasn't real impressed.


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