# Supplemental Homeowners Insurance



## Junior Johnson (Mar 19, 2010)

Does anyone know of any home owner insurance companies that will insure (PPD, Schutzhund, FR, Mondio) or any sport dog for that matter? Is there a supplemental ryder involved or will they outright deny any "protection" trained dogs. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## Rina Rivamonte (Jan 11, 2011)

The State Farm agent I spoke to said I wouldn't have any issues getting insured by them. They just recommended adding an umbrella policy. We're renters atm so no personal experience.

Sent from my Droid 2 using Tapatalk


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Why would you bring up the fact that your dogs do any grip sports at all? The subject doesn't come up on an application and there is no grip sport dog bite exclusion, at least that I am aware of. 

Lately many companies flat out won't insure certain breeds at all, including GSDs and other working breeds, they exclude coverage from injury casued by certain breeds, and/or just refuse to write a policy for you if you own one of the breeds they don't like.

I have my primary homeowners and primary liabilty with Safeco Ins Co..
My Umbrella used to be with Navigators, but they no longer write in my state so now it's with US Liability Insurance Company. 
My dogs are not excluded from either policy, neither company has issues with GSDs.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm pretty sure USAA is non breed restrictive (and they're cheaper than most companies I've found). I don't think I'd mention any kind of bitework training though, they might get the wrong impression.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Junior Johnson said:


> Does anyone know of any home owner insurance companies that will insure (PPD, Schutzhund, FR, Mondio) or any sport dog for that matter? Is there a supplemental ryder involved or will they outright deny any "protection" trained dogs. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Dont tell me you shopping for insurance and telling the agents your dogs are bite trained shit dont stop there tell them about your hobby making fireworks wile your at it.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

I have an umbrella policy with Geico but the stipulation is that it only provides coverage IF my homeowner's insurance also provides coverage, which it does. I live in Florida and use Homewise insurance company.


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## Junior Johnson (Mar 19, 2010)

My question didnt say anything about speaking with an insurance company nor did it say anyhting about telling them about biting sports. I am trying to find out if there are any insurance agencies who offer supplemental coverage. With all of the biting sports, there has to be an umbrella policy out there that should cover it; since a lot of individuals on this forum have *most* of the answers, I figured I would ask.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I have Farmers insurance they know I have a German Shepherd not a problem. I don't offer any information to any one including my neighbors.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Junior Johnson said:


> My question didnt say anything about speaking with an insurance company nor did it say anyhting about telling them about biting sports. I am trying to find out if there are any insurance agencies who offer supplemental coverage. With all of the biting sports, there has to be an umbrella policy out there that should cover it; since a lot of individuals on this forum have *most* of the answers, I figured I would ask.


Well that's where you're going to get your answers. Insurance varies by state and by company. What you can get in one state for coverage doesn't mean you'll get that in another.
Example: My NY car insurance was a ton higher than here, with lower coverage amounts and when I moved here they made it have a mandatory $50 deductible for glass, when before I had $0 deductibles for everything.

Basically, you need to call and ask insurance agents. I still stand by "if they don't ask me what I do with my dog, I'm not going to offer any information".


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

You could just move to a less litigious area and not have to worry about it....or like someone else said don't say anything about your killer dogs


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Junior Johnson said:


> My question didnt say anything about speaking with an insurance company nor did it say anyhting about telling them about biting sports. I am trying to find out if there are any insurance agencies who offer supplemental coverage. With all of the biting sports, there has to be an umbrella policy out there that should cover it; since a lot of individuals on this forum have *most* of the answers, I figured I would ask.


There are not seperate umbrella policies to cover different types of (personal) liability, that's why they are called Umbrellas, it's an umbrella that covers all your personal liability exposures, not just excess over primary coverage. A true Umbrella covers things that are not covered on many primary policies like personal injury, eviction, dog bites, etc., (unless specifically excluded or unless policy is amended to limit the coverage to excess).

Excess Liability policies are exactly that "excess over primary", and do not provide the broader coverage afforded by Umbrella policies.


Sportsmans Insurance is the only agency I know of that writes grip sport liability Insurance, but it's for clubs not for individuals. If you want you can always call them and see if they can refer you to a company that will endorse coverage specifically for a dog trained in grip sports or personal protection. here is a link to sportsmens http://www.dogclubinsurance.com/


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## Junior Johnson (Mar 19, 2010)

The club I belong to uses Sportsmans, which I am familiar with. I just got off the phone with an underwriter who stated that they may be able to offer a separate home owners"umbrella policy" for sport dogs. She said that it would offer between $35-$50K per occurrence and would be in the area of $375 per year. If that is the case and the insurance can be written, it could be monumental for sport enthusiasts. I'll know the particulars next week.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm sorry, but that doesn't even make sense. The lowest limit you can get on a Personal Umbrella policy is $1,000,000 and they usually top out at $10,000,000. Maybe what you are talking about is some sort of stand alone policy that would cover only dog bites, and would only provide $35,000 -$50,000 and is not connected with a homeowners policy. That's not a lot of coverage if someone is bit by a dog, but something is better than nothing. Perhaps this would help out people who can't purchase homeowners coverage or have homeowners coverage but dog bites are excluded from their policies?

Please keep us posted.


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## Junior Johnson (Mar 19, 2010)

I may have the particulars skewed and may not be presenting the coverage as explained by the underwriter, but when they get back to me on Monday, I will spell it out as it is presented to me. What is important to me is the fact that there may be affordable coverage out there specifically for home owners who own sport dogs.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I haven't found a homeowner's policy that will cover sport dogs or other extreme "hobbies" or sports. 

We have a business insurance policy with Farmers that covers the dogs. It's called a Retail Service business and is classified as Animal Speciality. It runs about $1000/year and has a $1Million/occur. Farmers has been great to work with. My horse hit a car last year. Yes, she ran into the side of a car when someone let her out of a field and the toyota was really damaged. I believed totaled as the whole driver's side was caved in and windshield was cracked up from the impact. Horse was fine. Farmers handled it w/o a hitch. 

I think what you are looking for is an insurance for your hobby/sport, which is not part of a home owner's policy. You can purchase an umbrella policy to cover your personal liability separate from home owner's.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Debbie Skinner said:


> I haven't found a homeowner's policy that will cover sport dogs or other extreme "hobbies" or sports.
> 
> We have a business insurance policy with Farmers that covers the dogs. It's called a Retail Service business and is classified as Animal Speciality. It runs about $1000/year and has a $1Million/occur. Farmers has been great to work with. My horse hit a car last year. Yes, she ran into the side of a car when someone let her out of a field and the toyota was really damaged. I believed totaled as the whole driver's side was caved in and windshield was cracked up from the impact. Horse was fine. Farmers handled it w/o a hitch.
> 
> I think what you are looking for is an insurance for your hobby/sport, which is not part of a home owner's policy. You can purchase an umbrella policy to cover your personal liability separate from home owner's.


Debbie,

That ain't the way it works in Colorado :-( I was in Las Animas for a Mondio Ring training weekend a couple of years ago and
ran into a bull with my Ranger and did major damage. Found out the bull had a history of getting out from the cops, tow truck driver and Charley B. Then I found out that Colorado had
a "free range" law and that the owner had NO financial responsibility and I had to pay for all the damage myself :-(
At least that bull wouldn't be getting out anymore


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Debbie,
> 
> That ain't the way it works in Colorado :-( I was in Las Animas for a Mondio Ring training weekend a couple of years ago and
> ran into a bull with my Ranger and did major damage. Found out the bull had a history of getting out from the cops, tow truck driver and Charley B. Then I found out that Colorado had
> ...


But, you say YOU ran into the Bull. That would be different. My horse ran into the side of the car. She was trotting across the road according to a witness and tried to stop but slid sideways and broadsided the side of the Toyota. If the car would of hit the horse then that would of been the driver's fault.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Debbie,
> 
> That ain't the way it works in Colorado :-( I was in Las Animas for a Mondio Ring training weekend a couple of years ago and
> ran into a bull with my Ranger and did major damage. Found out the bull had a history of getting out from the cops, tow truck driver and Charley B. Then I found out that Colorado had
> ...


get new glasses  or was the bull in your blind spot? 

to the OP...
Are you looking to do training at your home? and insure that? you can get insurance as a dog "club" that will cover ya...but as said not part of homeowners insurance...


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

I have Farmer's Insurance also and they don't have problems with Rottweilers. In fact they asked me if I wanted life insurance on my dog...lol.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh OK, now I think I understand what he's looking for. He wants Animal Mortality coverage, not Umbrella Liability coverage. Thanks for the clarification, Debbie, and sorry for the confusion, Junior!
A google search brought up these agencies:

http://www.mourerfoster.com/fullmortality.shtml

http://www.lkalmanson.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=4&Itemid=8


http://www.mynewmarkets.com/products/cs594o

Junior if this is what you are looking for, I hope you do keep us posted with regards to any info you get on the subject, because you're right, Animal Mortality and/or disability is NOT covered by standard homeonwers policies.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> get new glasses  or was the bull in your blind spot?.


Black bull at night, on an unlit country road and I hit him with the right front fender and damaged the windshield and hood, fender
grille etc.

Debbie,

It wouldn't have made any difference if I ran into the bull or he ran into me. Free range means no financial responsibility for the owner. I checked into it a LOT


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Black bull at night, on an unlit country road and I hit him with the right front fender and damaged the windshield and hood, fender
> grille etc.
> 
> Debbie,
> ...


that sucks...


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Black bull at night, on an unlit country road and I hit him with the right front fender and damaged the windshield and hood, fender
> grille etc.
> 
> Debbie,
> ...


I guess there's a different interpretation in SoCal. My insurance agent investigated the "who hit who" as it really mattered in my horse's case when determining liability. This accident was on a straight away during the day and 35mph marked at both ends. If the car hit my horse then the driver would have to pay for his damages as he had the opportunity to avoid the animal and didn't. This is what I was told. 

Hey, who got the bull? Was it then your property and you could have a BBQ?


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Good thing you weren't on an Indian reservation in So Cal when you hit the bull...I believe you'd have to pay for the bull.

Laura


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> Good thing you weren't on an Indian reservation in So Cal when you hit the bull...I believe you'd have to pay for the bull.
> 
> Laura


That's how open range laws are, if I'm going 55 mph by my mom's house in AZ and there's a cow in the road, I don't see it and I wipe it out - I owe the rancher the price of the cow and possibly am liable for potential offspring it would have produced. 

Also, if the neighbors cows get on our property, it's not their responsibility to come fetch them, it's ours to fence them out even if they've done damage it's our problem.


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## Junior Johnson (Mar 19, 2010)

I should have been more specific with what I am looking for. The club I belong to has Sportsmans Insurance, which I am familiar with. I am looking for an insurance company who will *KNOWINGLY AND SPECIFICALLY* cover my dog understanding full well that the dog has been *trained to bite* and is involved in* dog biting sports*. I spoke with an underwriter who told me that she believes that they may be able to write and offer this type of coverage. I did not get into specifics, as she needed to reasearch the limits and pricing. *I am absolutely dumb founded as to why this is not already readily available, as the majority of dog sport enthusiasts are responsible and take exceptional and additional measures to ensure that their dog is under control and their dog's exposure is limited and the public remains safe.* I understand that the polis doesnt understand that biting and control can be synonymous, but that just goes to show that they are uneducated and misinformed about sporting dogs. *I also fully understand that insurance companies are driven by numbers and statistics and of the tens of thousnads of dog bites in the US every year, I would be willing to go out on a limb and bet that maybe, just maybe, only a handful of those bites came from a dog involved in the biting arena. *Given the aforementioned, insurance companies stand to make a great deal of revenue if they offered such coverage, because theoretically, we in the sporting world are the exception, not the rule. The underwriter is getting back to me Monday and I will post what they render.


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

Junior Johnson said:


> Does anyone know of any home owner insurance companies that will insure (PPD, Schutzhund, FR, Mondio) or any sport dog for that matter? Is there a supplemental ryder involved or will they outright deny any "protection" trained dogs. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


I believe Country Financial does.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Ashley Campbell said:


> That's how open range laws are, if I'm going 55 mph by my mom's house in AZ and there's a cow in the road, I don't see it and I wipe it out - I owe the rancher the price of the cow and possibly am liable for potential offspring it would have produced.
> 
> Also, if the neighbors cows get on our property, it's not their responsibility to come fetch them, it's ours to fence them out even if they've done damage it's our problem.


You have that "make my day" law there but you're responsible for someone elses livestock that's loose ?? That seems fairly retarded.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Hey, who got the bull? Was it then your property and you could have a BBQ?



There was a bunch of Mexicans cutting him up the next morning.
I"m not sure if they worked for the bulls owner or just getting some free meat. There was a LOT of it 
I just hit him a glancing blow and did major damage to the truck.
I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd hit him head on :-(


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Junior Johnson said:


> I should have been more specific with what I am looking for. The club I belong to has Sportsmans Insurance, which I am familiar with. I am looking for an insurance company who will *KNOWINGLY AND SPECIFICALLY* cover my dog understanding full well that the dog has been *trained to bite* and is involved in* dog biting sports*. I spoke with an underwriter who told me that she believes that they may be able to write and offer this type of coverage. I did not get into specifics, as she needed to reasearch the limits and pricing. *I am absolutely dumb founded as to why this is not already readily available, as the majority of dog sport enthusiasts are responsible and take exceptional and additional measures to ensure that their dog is under control and their dog's exposure is limited and the public remains safe.* I understand that the polis doesnt understand that biting and control can be synonymous, but that just goes to show that they are uneducated and misinformed about sporting dogs. *I also fully understand that insurance companies are driven by numbers and statistics and of the tens of thousnads of dog bites in the US every year, I would be willing to go out on a limb and bet that maybe, just maybe, only a handful of those bites came from a dog involved in the biting arena. *Given the aforementioned, insurance companies stand to make a great deal of revenue if they offered such coverage, because theoretically, we in the sporting world are the exception, not the rule. The underwriter is getting back to me Monday and I will post what they render.


Not really. The percentage of dog sport dogs are miniscule when you look at the big picture. There are aprox 77.5 MILLION dogs in the USA. Anyone care to venture out a number of how many are sport/PSD's ? Forget about the PSD's because they're probably covered by their municipality. The insurance companys would laugh at you if you tried to explain how much revenue they're leaving on the table not insuring sport dogs, LOL, they're in the business of making money , not throwing it away. It's all about percentages.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Junior Johnson said:


> I should have been more specific with what I am looking for. The club I belong to has Sportsmans Insurance, which I am familiar with. I am looking for an insurance company who will *KNOWINGLY AND SPECIFICALLY* cover my dog understanding full well that the dog has been *trained to bite* and is involved in* dog biting sports*. I spoke with an underwriter who told me that she believes that they may be able to write and offer this type of coverage. I did not get into specifics, as she needed to reasearch the limits and pricing. *I am absolutely dumb founded as to why this is not already readily available, as the majority of dog sport enthusiasts are responsible and take exceptional and additional measures to ensure that their dog is under control and their dog's exposure is limited and the public remains safe.* I understand that the polis doesnt understand that biting and control can be synonymous, but that just goes to show that they are uneducated and misinformed about sporting dogs. *I also fully understand that insurance companies are driven by numbers and statistics and of the tens of thousnads of dog bites in the US every year, I would be willing to go out on a limb and bet that maybe, just maybe, only a handful of those bites came from a dog involved in the biting arena. *Given the aforementioned, insurance companies stand to make a great deal of revenue if they offered such coverage, because theoretically, we in the sporting world are the exception, not the rule. The underwriter is getting back to me Monday and I will post what they render.


head desk head desk head desk


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## Dan Spenser (Oct 29, 2010)

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/

Dan


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Dan Spenser said:


> http://www.dogbitelaw.com/
> 
> Dan


Just so I can be sure I beat this dead horse to death:

Unless dogs are specifically excluded under the Comprehensive Personal Liability portion of a homeowners policy, renters policy, Umbrella policy, dog bites or any damage caused by dogs is covered, regardless of what they are trained to do. 

The difficulty in obtaining insurance is breed specific not training oriented. 

Several posters have provided the names of various carriers who usually do not have issues against specific breeds.


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## Junior Johnson (Mar 19, 2010)

I just received an email from the insurance underwriter who informed me that they offer an *animal* *liability policy* and the base limists are $25,000 per person / $50,000 per accident / $100,000 aggregate. The yearly cost is between $300-$500, but if you want higher limits, the premium would obviously be higher. There were a few posters who appeared to have a great deal of insurance knowledge. Any thoughts?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Junior Johnson said:


> I just received an email from the insurance underwriter who informed me that they offer an *animal* *liability policy* and the base limists are $25,000 per person / $50,000 per accident / $100,000 aggregate. The yearly cost is between $300-$500, but if you want higher limits, the premium would obviously be higher. There were a few posters who appeared to have a great deal of insurance knowledge. Any thoughts?


 
I just renewed my Umbrella policy. $405. annual premium for $1,000,000 liability limit, or $505. for $2,000,000 liabilty limit. Animal liability is not excluded, and is only one aspect of what is covered by this policy, and there is no limit other than the policy aggregate. This is over and above the $500,000 Comprehensive Personal Liability coverage provided by my homeowners policy, which also does not exclude damage caused by my dogs.

I would say that although the coverage Junior mentions is rather expensive considering the narrow coverage provided and the aggregate limit, if someone is unable to obtain liability coverage that does not exclude damage caused by dogs through normal channels, then for sure, the animal liability policy Junior has found is definetly something to consider, and for most people, better than having no coverage at all.


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## Junior Johnson (Mar 19, 2010)

What company do you use?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

My Homeowners Insurance in Washington is with State Farm 
My Homeowners Insurance in California is with Safeco
My Umbrella Insurance is with U S Liability Insurance Company

There are various other carriers that do not exclude dogs, BUT I think you are on to something that might be very helpful to people who cannot purchase standard liability coverage, or whos carriers exclude injury caused by dogs.


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## Junior Johnson (Mar 19, 2010)

The name of the company is Evolution Insurance Brokers and I spoke with Jaime @ 801-304-5522. She informed me that they are able to offer the liability coverage and she emailed me a sample application, which was quite involved and detailed.


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