# Here's the rescue girl Andi!



## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Finally got new batteries in my camera and just shot these. She looks a LOT better than she did nearly a week ago at adoption, but she hasn't gained weight yet.




























**Disclaimer: my dogs are usually not allowed on my furniture. I was otherwise occupied and found THIS when I went back into the living room. She was toppled from her perch after I shot a picture and made her bite her own tail:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I think she will look really good when she has a few pounds added!

Nice face.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I think she will look really good when she has a few pounds added!
> 
> Nice face.


Thanks, Connie. I'm putting teh weight on slowly due to that questionable hip. Vet said worst thing I could do was to aggravte it by fattening her up too quickly.

She's an alligator, though LOL.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

<<< Thanks, Connie. I'm putting teh weight 
on slowly due to that questionable hip. Vet said 
worst thing I could do was to aggravte it by 
fattening her up too quickly. 

She's an alligator, though LOL >>>>>>

Oh, absolutely! And she doesn't look awful,
either.....just very thin.

Really good vet advice, IMO.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> <<< Thanks, Connie. I'm putting teh weight
> on slowly due to that questionable hip. Vet said
> worst thing I could do was to aggravte it by
> fattening her up too quickly.
> ...


LOL Connie. She *is* very thin -- you're 120% correct. Poor thing's got at least 10 lbs to go, and probably more like 15! I didn't take a lot of before photos, but when I brought her home she looked sad, her fur was gray with all of the matted/dirty hair, and she was limping pretty badly. It's amazing what a week can do (and a couple of baths). She's still seriously skinny, but stools are normal, smile on her face, adn she's wrestling with me!!!!

I'm still wondering if her "hip" issue isn't just sleeping on very hard, cold concrete for 2 weeks? I've been helping her get some light exercise iin the frm of short neighborhood walks (like 5 minutes at a time) and soft things to lay on and I don't notice it as much as I did. But at any rate I'd rather be safe than sorry where HD is concerned nad will still have hte x-rays done.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

She's going to be absoultely gorgeous after weight is on her, and because of the good nutrition that coat is going to SHINE! She's lucky you found her!


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Sarah Hall said:


> She's going to be absoultely gorgeous after weight is on her, and because of the good nutrition that coat is going to SHINE! She's lucky you found her!


Thanks, Sarah! Her coat already is shining from the Royal Canin.

Totally off topic: but do you know much about Canidae? I was looking at it last night and noticed that my dogs would eat way less of it than they do their current food, and I liked that the first fivef ingredients were mostly meat (whereas in RC they're meat and then rice). I would prefer to go back to raw, but we don't seem to have the resources here that I was hoping to have (there are NO butchers nad NO slaughterhouses in the area at all...very odd).


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

*Canidae*

Canidae is what I feed, Stacia. I LOVE it and cannot sing its praises enough! My pet dog has been on it for going on 3 years now, and Jak has been on it for a couple of months now. It's an "all life stages" food, so it can be fed to puppies, adults, and seniors. That means that everyone's on the same food, so you don't have two or three different bags of dog food. It's also made with human-grade ingredients, and no corn, soy, chemical preservatives, or byproducts.

I did a price comparison several weeks ago for a guy that was feeding Beneful to his 60 pound Golden retriever, and it actually came out _equal_. I think it was something like $285 to feed one 60 pound dog over the course of a year, for Beneful or Canidae. There's a BIG difference in the two foods, and a decent difference in price per bag, but when you look at how much you have to feed of the Beneful, you're having to buy it almost twice as often as the Canidae, so that's why it equals out in cost in the long run. Gypsy gets 1 1/2 to 2 cups of food a day depending on how active she is, and whether or not she starts to look a little 'chunky' to me. Jak gets anywhere from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 cups a day, depending on whether he's in the middle of a growth spurt or not - which I think he is right now, because he's literally SCARFING. :lol: 

Canidae has two "all life stages" formulas now; the original, which is made with turkey, chicken, lamb, and herring and their new chicken & rice one which only uses chicken as the meat protein. I've always used the original, so I can't comment on the chicken formula at all. The kibble is fairly small, so Abbie shouldn't have trouble with it, and it's got a 'dry' crunch that's very similar to a baked food - not hard and not crumbly. Doesn't taste bad, either (yes, I've tried it!)


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: Canidae*



Kristen Cabe said:


> Canidae is what I feed, Stacia. I LOVE it and cannot sing its praises enough! My pet dog has been on it for going on 3 years now, and Jak has been on it for a couple of months now. It's an "all life stages" food, so it can be fed to puppies, adults, and seniors. That means that everyone's on the same food, so you don't have two or three different bags of dog food. It's also made with human-grade ingredients, and no corn, soy, chemical preservatives, or byproducts.
> 
> I did a price comparison several weeks ago for a guy that was feeding Beneful to his 60 pound Golden retriever, and it actually came out _equal_. I think it was something like $285 to feed one 60 pound dog over the course of a year, for Beneful or Canidae. There's a BIG difference in the two foods, and a decent difference in price per bag, but when you look at how much you have to feed of the Beneful, you're having to buy it almost twice as often as the Canidae, so that's why it equals out in cost in the long run. Gypsy gets 1 1/2 to 2 cups of food a day depending on how active she is, and whether or not she starts to look a little 'chunky' to me. Jak gets anywhere from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 cups a day, depending on whether he's in the middle of a growth spurt or not - which I think he is right now, because he's literally SCARFING. :lol:
> 
> Canidae has two "all life stages" formulas now; the original, which is made with turkey, chicken, lamb, and herring and their new chicken & rice one which only uses chicken as the meat protein. I've always used the original, so I can't comment on the chicken formula at all. The kibble is fairly small, so Abbie shouldn't have trouble with it, and it's got a 'dry' crunch that's very similar to a baked food - not hard and not crumbly. Doesn't taste bad, either (yes, I've tried it!)


Thanks, Kristen! I think we're going to switch. It would cost me FAR less to feed Canidae than it is to feed Royal Canin. I have to give Achilles 6 cups of the Royal Canin a day (sometimes more) and Andi is 5-6 cups! A 35 lb bag only lasts Achilles about 30 days, and it's nearly $50. Abbie's been eating Nutro Naturals weight management and one 40 lb bag lasts her 3 months LOL.

Where do you get your Canidae? I tried an online store search and the site came back with no hits. I was looking at Petfooddirect.com but it's about $15/bag to ship it to me (less if I buy more at once -- 3 40-lb bags was about $57 in shipping). I think Achilles' issue lately might be that he just doesn't have the desire to eat 6 cups of food a day, adn the RC seems to have gotten harder all of a sudden. He'll eat Abbie's Nutro without too much fuss (but of course that won't sustain him). He's only interested in about 1 c of food at a time suddenly!

Thanks again!


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I get it from the local Pet Supplies Plus! store, where I talked to the manager and got him to start ordering it for me, but apparently it's popular because now he carries it all the time. It's about $35 with tax (I think) for a 40 pound bag, and when I get home, I can tell you how long a bag lasts feeding both dogs. When I was just feeding Gypsy, a 40 pound bag would last between 5 and 6 weeks!

If you want, I don't mind to buy a bag for you and bring it down there if you can't find a place locally to get it. I don't think the Pet Supplies Plus! store that I get mine from is listed on their website either, so there _may_ be a place down there that carries it - you'd just have to look. If Wayne has training this weekend, I'll be down there anyway, and can bring you a bag then, or if you don't want to buy a whole bag right now, I can bring you 5 or 10 pounds to try, since I will have to buy a new bag before the weekend anyway. Just let me know. 

Oh, and I've also got some Nutro coupons if you want them. If you go to their website and sign up for the Frequent Buyer Program (http://www.nutroproducts.com/fbpnutroReg.asp), they will send you a bunch of coupons. 
I still have 2 coupons for $2 off any 15 pound bag or larger of Nutro Natural Choice that expire in July, and I won't use them so you're welcome to them if you want them. I've also got:

2 $2 off 15 pound bag or larger of Ultra, 
2 $2 off 15 pounds or more of Nutro Max, 
2 $1 Natural Choice treats, 
1 $2 off of 6 large or 12 small cans, and 
1 $1 off a box of biscuits 

All of them expire July 31, 2006.


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## Guest (May 3, 2006)

I don't have time to get into the food discussion part, but how much does she weigh? How tall is she? She looked ok from the pics. Is she much thinner than she appears? I know it's hard to see much in a picture of a black dog, so is her torso much thinner than it looks? As long as she's healthy, I wouldn't be overly concerned if she's a little thin. 

Maybe I'm just the world's worst mother, but from what I saw, she looks like Caleb. Last set of ribs slightly visible, hip bones visible, small "waist", spine visible. His spine and hips always seem to be visible, regardless of weight.I think with a large dog, it's better to err on the side of thin. Compare the health issues of overweight versus underweight. Depending on size and lines, if she's only 2, she may not be physically mature. Caleb turned 2 in December, and he's still a little puppyish, which I think has a lot to do with some of his protruding bones and supermodel physique. Except for the giant head  .


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## Guest (May 3, 2006)

Ok, wouldn't let me edit cuz it was in "debug mode" (MIKE?), so I am forced to double-post. While everyone's on food and comparing cost, don't rule out Innova Evo. It seems outrageous if you're just comparing bags by weight. BUT-they eat FAR less Evo than Royal Canin or Canidae. Caleb eats just slightly over half the amnt. he normally eats when fed kibble. He eats about 4-5 cups of Royal Canin and about 4 of Canidae; he eats 2-2.5 cups of Evo. IMO, it's far superior to other kibbles, if you're planning on feeding kibble long-term. I did a cost comparison, and found that Evo is less expensive than Royal Canin GSD, and about on par with Canidae, but I think it's way better than Canidae as far as quality of ingredients, and the fact that Evo uses cartilage, bone, etc. to simulate raw feeding. It's by far the easiest I've found to switch back and forth from raw.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

What about if kibble is all you're feeding? I've been told that EVO shouldn't be fed exclusively; that it should be fed in conjunction with a raw diet.

Innova EVO can be more difficult to find than some of the other brands like Canidae and Solid Gold. At least in my experience.


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## Guest (May 3, 2006)

I've never heard you can't feed Evo by itself; I wonder if the fact that it's one that is *safer* to feed in conjunction w/raw has gotten twisted into that? Hmm. If I remember correctly, the bag just says that it's a great alternative to raw, and good with raw...I'll have to check. I've never fed it for "extended" periods of time. As far as finding it-order it online or go to the site and click on the list of who carries it in your state. I think you could probably get someone to order it for you if they saw the price :wink: .


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

I just switched over both my cat and dog to Evo (Cat and Dog, respectively). It is designed as either a total RAW food or to balance out ratios in a mixed diet between it and RAW.

Edited to say that it does smell kind of funky.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

From the Natura Pet website:



> Innova EVO is also a convenient, complete and balanced supplement to a raw feeding program.


Don't get me wrong; I'm NOT knocking the food. Innova makes a great product. It's just that I don't know that I'd recommend EVO to someone who was going to feed _just_ kibble.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Oh crap. NEVERMIND. I also found where it said it could be fed in lieu of a raw diet. #-o


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## Guest (May 3, 2006)

Kristen, don't let it happen again  :lol: . I am going to the store right now hoping to make some exciting discovery in dog food. Since Caleb is gone, I can afford to feed Widge and Dustin differently, and raw is hard in such small quantities w/my schedule. I'll let everyone know if I strike gold...


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> I don't have time to get into the food discussion part, but how much does she weigh? How tall is she? She looked ok from the pics. Is she much thinner than she appears? I know it's hard to see much in a picture of a black dog, so is her torso much thinner than it looks? As long as she's healthy, I wouldn't be overly concerned if she's a little thin.
> 
> Maybe I'm just the world's worst mother, but from what I saw, she looks like Caleb. Last set of ribs slightly visible, hip bones visible, small "waist", spine visible. His spine and hips always seem to be visible, regardless of weight.I think with a large dog, it's better to err on the side of thin. Compare the health issues of overweight versus underweight. Depending on size and lines, if she's only 2, she may not be physically mature. Caleb turned 2 in December, and he's still a little puppyish, which I think has a lot to do with some of his protruding bones and supermodel physique. Except for the giant head  .


Jenni, she's 61 cm at the withers and only 50 lbs. I didn't show the pic of her from the top and b/c she's black you can't see very well but EVERY one of her ribs is showing completely (to the point where you can watch her muscles and skin move over them). I thouhgt for sure I posted that pic of her from teh top...oh well, here goes:










I want her around 60 lbs I think. Poor thing was full of worms and just whelped so that accounts for most her skinny physique. I keep Achilles pretty thin (he's 65 cm at the withers and 63 lbs at 13 mths). 

Innova Evo? I'll have to look into that Jenni. Thanks!!!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Oh crap. NEVERMIND. I also found where it said it could be fed in lieu of a raw diet. #-o


Has anyone been using Evo for a while? I was looking at the product profile, and it looks outstanding (for a non-allergy-prone dog).

I wish I could get some kind of fix as to the difference between THK (I very much like the fact that it's dehydrated at relatively low temps instead of cooked to kibble) with added RMBs, and Evo and raw fed at different meals. Is anyone doing that (the second)? I'm looking for anecdotal evidence.

I'm not looking for a switch (I use raw, with THK no-grain formulae as emergency or travel backup), but maybe I should be adding Evo to my "rave" list for other people's requests for recommendations. I get a lot of PMs on this and other boards asking for good alternatives to raw. I think most people who who post a lot about raw probably do!  When THK appeared, appropriate for adding in RMBs, I was thrilled.


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## Guest (May 4, 2006)

Stacia, she's thinner than she looks. Poor thing.  Caleb isn't quite that skinny, but he's not too far off. BUT-he's that way naturally-he doesn't have worms and he's never whelped a litter! She's definitely too thin to have that kind of strain on her body :x . SOME PEOPLE :evil: !

I spent 2 hours in the pet store allowing the clerks to think I must be psychotic, since I took that long and didn't need help...I found several canned foods (including EVO)that I was really happy about for the little ones, but they're just not cost effective for Caleb. Raw is still the way to go; it's just hard to buy just the right amount. I feel like I throw away more than the little ones eat, and I don't have an extra freezer yet. It's hard to buy just enough chicken for a chihuahua and a pekingese to eat in a couple days. About Evo: Connie, I interchange it frequently, but have never done it like you're asking. I do more of a "raw one day/week," "Evo the next" type of a deal. If I have the time to feed raw, I do it as long as I can, and don't feed anything different during that time.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Stacia, she's thinner than she looks. Poor thing.  Caleb isn't quite that skinny, but he's not too far off. BUT-he's that way naturally-he doesn't have worms and he's never whelped a litter! She's definitely too thin to have that kind of strain on her body :x . SOME PEOPLE :evil: !
> .


Yeah, I feel sorry for her, too! People are very cruel...I can almost guarantee those puppies were taken as soon as they were weaned and sold and then she was dumped. Her milk is dried up but you can still clearly see every teat (enlarged and dark black). She still searches under and over things for those puppies, too  .

It'll take some time to get her up to standard. She's at the tall end of the standard for a bitch, but weighs on the low end! I really think that 60-65 lbs will do it for her with her bone structure. Achilles is naturally skinny and narrow. He looks massive from the side and then he turns to face you and his front legs are still side by side LOL! I know he just needs the timem to fill out -- he's at the top of the standard for a male so its' safe to say he'll be around 75-80 once he's done filling out.

I am going to have to see if any of our local food stores have the Innova. Kristen can get me Canidae. I just hope he eats something soon. I'm sure i"m just an over-anxious mom but it's been about 5 days now with him eating just snippets here and there of kibble. He also seems slightly depressed if I'm not playing with him...I'm wondering if it's because my DH is away and I brought a new dog into the house? He's fine if i'm training with him (he''ll even eat after a session). I just love that baby to pieces and if anything were to be wrong with him I'd be beyond help...


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## Guest (May 4, 2006)

Is it very hot there Stacia? Caleb hardly eats during the summer sometimes. He's much more sensitive to heat than the others, and kind of acts lethargic during the really hot days. I was just thinking how well-behaved he'd turned out...then October hit and he was a lunatic  . Hope he's ok. Keep us posted. 75-80! I envy you :lol: !


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## Guest (May 4, 2006)

deleted-double post.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Is it very hot there Stacia? Caleb hardly eats during the summer sometimes. He's much more sensitive to heat than the others, and kind of acts lethargic during the really hot days. I was just thinking how well-behaved he'd turned out...then October hit and he was a lunatic  . Hope he's ok. Keep us posted. 75-80! I envy you :lol: !


Well, it's been about 75 outside but we live in a VERY shaded house so at 75 degrees it's actually chilly inside my house (and my heat even still comes on wtih theh thermostat set at 67!). At first i was worried about an intestinal blockage b/c goodness knows these shep puppies will eat ANYTHING. But no vomiting, stools are scant but perfectly normal. He's just laying around a lot more and won't eat. It might also be a natural slowing down of his metabolism I suppose. He just turned 13 montsh on the 29th and I have to come to grips with the fact that he's a teenage dog now. He's also been doing much better with OB around the house in the last few days and hasn't shown as much aggression toward Andi (he'll stand her for up to 2 minutes before he shows teeth -- he was even letting her give him kisses earlier LOL). Maybe this is just normal and I worry too much...


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## Guest (May 5, 2006)

Sounds like good ol' jealous depression. How's that for humanizing :lol: ? Widget was like that when Caleb came to live with us permanently. You wouldn't think something as trivial as staying EVERY night instead of 4-5 nights would be a big deal, but apparently he saw it as a very big deal. :roll:


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