# What's the scoop with Vitamin C?



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Great for us. Is a small amount good for a dog?


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Almost all other mammals make an "adequate" amount of it on their own. Primates and guinea pigs are a notable exception, so we must get it in the diet. I have had good luck with giving it to foster dogs with kennel cough and having them recover quickly without antibiotics. I also give it to my dogs when we have a recovering foster dog in the house and my dogs (who are not vaccinated for bordatella) have never had kennel cough. Except when you get in to the super mega doses, anything the body doesn't need will be excreted in the urine since it's water soluble. So you can give some if you like and it's probably not a bad idea when your dogs are going through times of high stress (trial season, for instance). 

The ester C is easier on their stomach than ascorbic acid. There has been anecdotal reports that it may help with hip dysplasia and allergies as it's an anti inflammatory and antihistamine, but I don't think any formal studies have been done, especially on the hip dysplasia thing.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I did have an ortho vet tell me he would be concerned about too much for a young dog -- something about excessive bone remodeling.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I gave it to my current dog (although I must admit, not from day one, from around a year - and sporadically at that). He OFAed Good, has a littermate with a Fair and another littermate with an Excellent (prelim only on that one). So I guess as far as I'm concerned, I don't know!


----------



## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

This is an interesting article about Vit. C http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/013.html


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Yeah, that same site is also saying that raw diets aren't good for dogs. Great credibility.

Ofcourse, you have to buy the book if you want to know exactly what food you should *COOK* for your German Shepherd. Ofcourse, every breed requires a different recipe!?

The author of that article Frank posted even goes as far as saying that if you believe a dog should eat what a wolf eats, then humans should eat bananas and leaves like Chimpanzees because the DNA profile is closer between Human/Chimp than it is Dog/Wolf :roll:


----------



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> The ester C is easier on their stomach than ascorbic acid.


Is this a pill form?


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes, Ted, you can get it from any pharmacy in the vitamin aisle.


OR, you can feed foods that contain vitamin C, such as liver, kidney, heart, & fish.


----------



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Hey! I feed all of those. Didn't know they contained C


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Sure do!  And natural is always better than pill form


----------



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Most dogs love orange slices, apples, pears, sweet bell peppers, and tomatoes as long as they can tell it's sweet. I don't give them a measured amount from the fruits and veggies I eat. It's just whatever I'm eating, I'll take a big bite and divide it up and toss a little bit to the dogs. They snarf it up.


----------



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Sure do!  And natural is always better than pill form



Absolutely. And the fruit that Maren mentioned.


----------



## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Yeah, that same site is also saying that raw diets aren't good for dogs. Great credibility.
> 
> Ofcourse, you have to buy the book if you want to know exactly what food you should *COOK* for your German Shepherd. Ofcourse, every breed requires a different recipe!?
> 
> The author of that article Frank posted even goes as far as saying that if you believe a dog should eat what a wolf eats, then humans should eat bananas and leaves like Chimpanzees because the DNA profile is closer between Human/Chimp than it is Dog/Wolf :roll:


Mike, the studies quoted are valid and worth concideration. I don't really care about the editorial comments on that site. 

In the last 24 hrs. I've learned about a friend that was murdered by her husband and I found out my dog has SAS. I just really didn't need to read your SMART***BULL**** tonight. 

Admins - Please delete out my profile.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Is there any concern about any consequences from too much sugar for dogs from the fruit?


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm sorry to hear about your friend Frank, but I hardly see what that has to do with this forum. We can't all be super nice to eachother in case someone had a bad day. I apologize for hurting your feelings.

Valid or not, credibility goes out the window when they make statements along the lines of "your dog will die if you give them Vit C!" and "You must cook for your dog!" Unless you wrote that stuff personally there's no need to be offended by it. This is a discussion forum. Credibility comes into question in a discussion.


----------



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Mike, that's exactly right. 

I don't think the small amount of sugar (fructose)is that bad. If it were, generally it wouldn't taste good.

It's ben theorized that babies start liking sweets because generally in nature sweet things are not harmful.


----------



## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

But is that true of dogs as well??


----------



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

The way nature works, I would personally think so. This topic came up a little while ago and I seem to recall that sugar from some fruit was OK. They eat it in the wild, after all.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Except I wonder if large amounts of high sugar fruits might lead to a serious problem down the line. Since we aren't able to 100% mimic what they would eat if they were free to hunt, is it not possible for them to develop problems when we add too much of a good thing? As far as the way it tastes, any dog I've ever known would be happy to wolf down a few gallons of ice cream or anything that contains a lot of sugar - if allowed. So what is the right amount? Personally I give my dogs only a smidgen amount of veg/fruit glop. The more I read, the more people I see getting away from veg/fruit or giving a token amount.


----------



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

There's no standard, and obviously a dog will eat anything to excess if allowed. Any amount proposed would be opinion only.

None of these items are high sugar, really. We're not talking sugar beets, and I don't think people promote giving multiple pieces of fruit daily. 

I personally take bag of frozen mixed veggies, and a couple apples or whatever I have and steam to mush. Then I add fresh veggies and a fresh apple.

Puree the whole cooked and raw veggie mix. Then freeze small containers. Pup gets about a heaping tablespoon a day.

I figure that's enought to maybe help something, but certainly not hurt anything.


----------



## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Who knows, someone will say they do it and it's great, another will say your killing your dog. I used to have a Dalmatian that loved grapes, years later I heard grapes can be toxic to dog...whatever! I don't feed much veggies either. A dollup of pumpkin, some leftover peas or green beans, usually I give Ollewo once a week or so. I used to give it daily, the dogs do like it, but I noticed the poop increased allot so it really wasn't being used up by the dog. I see veggies more as a treat or filler not much nutrition like it is for us. I feed allot of orgnas and I know they collect the important things we eat, so basicly the dog is getting his vitamins in those.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Frank Smego said:


> Mike, the studies quoted are valid and worth concideration. I don't really care about the editorial comments on that site.
> 
> In the last 24 hrs. I've learned about a friend that was murdered by her husband and I found out my dog has SAS. I just really didn't need to read your SMART***BULL**** tonight.
> 
> Admins - Please delete out my profile.


Editorial comments are what you get when you post to a forum.

Even a page peppered with gems of wisdom is going to lose out if the rest of the text is crazy.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

And Frank, I'm very sorry -- sorrier than I can say -- about your friend and your dog, who have nothing at all to do with a thread on Vitamin C.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Sue is correct about the sugar problem. I started reading it in canine cancer books and have now seen the no-regular-sugar advice in a lot of material I think is authoritative. 

Dogs are even more prone than humans to the cancers that feed and grow rapidly on simple sugars.

Ted and others who posted about low-sugar produce seem to be adhering to the low-sugar rule of thumb already.

Berries, which are particularly low in sugar, are a perfect choice, and Ted's apples too (but not pips in any quantity). I skip most fruits (except that I always keep frozen blueberries around from cheap summer farm stands) most of the time. The occasional bite is something mine all love, but they don't get regular servings of anything that has much sugar.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

This reminds me: Again I read on a forum that someone thought vanilla yogurt was plain yogurt. AARRGGHH!


It's loaded with added sugar, which I'm sure everyone here knows.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh my Connie, you have been soooooo missed my friend! I have a question for you. I once tried to use straight chicken livers for my dogs organ meat. He had violent diarrhea so I've stayed away from those. What organs do you use as staples?

My apologies for straying off topic. Connie I am wondering if you have any new advise regarding organs?


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I think there is a difference between what a dog eats when you put it in a bowl, and what a dog eats when he's walking through the woods. A dog will eat as much fruit as you put in his bowl, but will he eat as much if he's just poking around the wild?

As for grapes, I wouldn't risk it. Its not a quantity-specific thing, its a "1/2 a grape can kill a dog that can't handle them" type thing. I know people who have given grapes as treats for their dogs whole lives, but its not something I would risk knowing that there is a risk.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Oh my Connie, you have been soooooo missed my friend! I have a question for you. I once tried to use straight chicken livers for my dogs organ meat. He had violent diarrhea so I've stayed away from those. What organs do you use as staples?
> 
> My apologies for straying off topic. Connie I am wondering if you have any new advise regarding organs?


Yeah, start SMALL. STart with a teaspoon if you have to.

Sudden organ meat is by far the most common diarrhea-vomiting trigger I hear about, followed by sudden fat.

I use livers, but with two of mine I had to start very very small, GRADUALLY increasing it.

I also give those kidneys that are often stuck to the chicken backs, of course.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I think there is a difference between what a dog eats when you put it in a bowl, and what a dog eats when he's walking through the woods. A dog will eat as much fruit as you put in his bowl, but will he eat as much if he's just poking around the wild?
> 
> As for grapes, I wouldn't risk it. Its not a quantity-specific thing, its a "1/2 a grape can kill a dog that can't handle them" type thing. I know people who have given grapes as treats for their dogs whole lives, but its not something I would risk knowing that there is a risk.


I do not risk grapes or raisins either. It's a crap-shoot.


----------



## Natalie Heath (Apr 18, 2008)

Vitamin C is involved in the synthesis of collagen and connective tissue repair. My older Malinois has strained her left cruciate ligament twice. The first time I did not supplement with vitamin C and the healing process was very slow. The second time she injured herself, a friend of mine who knows a lot about supplementation told me to give her therapeutic doses of vitamin C. Even though the injury was more severe, her healing time was much less. I still rested her for 8 weeks but it was quite obvious after 4 weeks that she was much sounder than she had been at the 4 week point during the healing process of the first injury. I can't remember what the therapeutic dose per body weight was was but I can find it if anyone is interested.

Natalie


----------



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Hi Natalie. Thats an interesting story. Thanks for sharing that. I'd be curious what the dose was, personally.


----------



## Natalie Heath (Apr 18, 2008)

Hi Ted,

I cannot remember the dose per lbs. of body weight. But, she is 58 lbs. and was getting 1000 mg per day split into two meals. So, she got 500 mg with her morning meal and 500 mg with her evening meal. I bought a powdered ester-C and just mixed it in with her food (I feed a ground raw meal that I get from the butcher that has horse, fish, chicken and beef liver) so it was pretty easy to give.

I only gave it to her while she was healing from the injury. She no longer gets it but does get daily glucosamine to slow down the onset of arthritis in the joint. 

She was out of sports for 11 months. I had retired her from fly ball after the second injury last May. She made her come back this week-end. She told me in no uncertain terms this winter that she is not ready for retirement at the age of 5 (she'll be turning 6 in July). When I took her to the vet to have the stifle looked at before returning her to fly ball, the vet was amazed. There is no thickening at all in the joint or along the ligament. She was given a full thumbs up to return to fly ball with a few concessions. No back to back tournaments and no double running (running on two different teams within a tournament). Usually there are 10 to 15 races per team with 3 to 5 heats per race. I decided to take it one step further and she will only share a spot with another dog so she will only run half a tournament. At least for now. I'll see how she does the rest of this racing season and decide from there. She was a VERY happy girl to be racing this week-end!

Natalie


----------

