# Open OB sits and downs



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

I have been training Zak for Open OB and he is ready to show. He has never broken a sit or down stay but I am a bit nervous about the out of sight sits and downs and want to ask how others have proofed these exercises. I want to make sure he is 100% dependable or close to it before we hit the show ring. 
I taught him open at home and took him to a showngo for a test run. The judge there told me he did not move but was very anxious looking and she thought he might. Is there anyway I can work with him to ease his anxiety? This is one exercise that is tough to work on by yourself. Any help is appreciated as always.


----------



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

vicki dickey said:


> I have been training Zak for Open OB and he is ready to show. He has never broken a sit or down stay but I am a bit nervous about the out of sight sits and downs and want to ask how others have proofed these exercises. I want to make sure he is 100% dependable or close to it before we hit the show ring.
> I taught him open at home and took him to a showngo for a test run. The judge there told me he did not move but was very anxious looking and she thought he might. Is there anyway I can work with him to ease his anxiety? This is one exercise that is tough to work on by yourself. Any help is appreciated as always.


One of my favorite places was the scocer field while a game was going on. First I'd do some OB, then put him in a long down a bit out of the way from the crowd and walk away, hiding behind bleechers etc. Set him up for sucess, at first only go out of sight for 30 sec., then build up to your trial time plus.


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Vicki, What I do (and edward had some good advice) is first I make sure it is absolutley proofed the best I can with me first. So, I put the dog in position and try to pull them out with a leash, throw a ball, have another dog walk by, people call the dog. And I just keep telling the dog what I want...sit, wait....that sort of stuff. I do like edward does with duration...short at first....then building duration. I also slowly increase the competing motivation. So they are far away and mild at first...building up to close and intense.

As for the Anxiety. I think that most anxiousness is the dog is really because they do not understand what is happening. 

So when it's in terms to me leaving. I have my down proofed with me close, and all the proofing I can do. I would see if there is a point in distance that I see anxiety. So, I would put the dog in position and move away from them. If I saw anxiety at a distance. I go to the distance of anxiety, and stay there for a short time, then slowly increase the time. I know some people are going to say your rewarding the anxiety. but I think once dog understands your coming back...it will go away. So, I just keep rewardig the dog for short durations at a distance...the same amount of time. Over time the dog will start to understand your going to come back...then I would start to increase the time. And If I see anymore anxiety, I would remember how long I can push the dog to, and start rewarding there, or just before it. Then push longer. 

Then I would start over, with me going out of sight. You will need a spotter to tell you whats happening...or some cover with a hole in it so you can see them. 

But I think you can only worry about one thing at a time. So if it's the anxiety your worried about....just focus on that. Do not worry about adding distractions yet. 

And some anxiety is caused by dogs in static positions amping up cause I think they do not know when they are getting thier toy. Long downs and what not, I think a fixed reward schedule helps. So my dogs know they have to wait a certain amount of time has to pass when they get thier reward. This one area I think randomizing the reward can create some anxiousness.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"This one area I think randomizing the reward can create some anxiousness."

James, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I think random is key. I don't want the dog ever expecting me to return and reward on any given time schedule. I supose I could be talked into it for OB competition only since that is always 3min sit, 5min down for the AKC CDX but I don't believe that helps a solid sit or down in the real world. I'm just not a fan of pattern training
I definitely agree on your time/distance method. You never add both in the same scenario. 
I would add that adding distractions follow the same time/distance idea.......randomly! :wink:
All JMHO of course!


----------



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

James and Bob-Thanks again for the advice. He has been very solid on his stays but show situations are more stressful plus me walking out of sight seems to make him anxious. He is very protective of me and this makes this exercise hard for him I think. Even if my daughter or husband gives me a hug he will jump straight up and looks them in the eye-never touches them and my husband is 6'2-to check things out.

BTW my puppy who was coming in on a recall crooked is now coming in sraight. I had him at Purina's practice day and at a showngo. He is 8 months old and will be going for his Novice title in ASCA in February. I wasnt going to show him this early but the trainers who have seen him all agree he is ready.
He is a nice laid back boy with great focus and enjoys the work. Zak is a serious type dog whereas this puppy is happy and carefree. I might be wrong but I think this happy attitude will show better. Not that Zak isnt a happy dog but he gets so serious in OB work-his joy only comes out in agility-and that serious 
attitude makes him looked bored or unhappy in the ring. Dont know if I am saying that right. I have tried all kinds of ways to get him up but I now think it is his personality just as the puppy's is to be perky and happy.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

How often do you do out of sight sits/downs just around the house?

Terrasita


----------



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Terrasita I have done them several places all where there is someone to watch him-our home, a kennel where I can rent a training room, Purina Farms and at a park. He doesnt break but everyone tells me he is very anxious. I would like to help him lose the anxiety. I am not sure if this will just take a lot repetition or if because he is so protective of me that it will never leave. My fear is in a real show situation where there are so many people,dogs, etc he might break to find me and then I will have a bigger problem to fix.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

vicki dickey said:


> Terrasita I have done them several places all where there is someone to watch him-our home, a kennel where I can rent a training room, Purina Farms and at a park. He doesnt break but everyone tells me he is very anxious. I would like to help him lose the anxiety. I am not sure if this will just take a lot repetition or if because he is so protective of me that it will never leave. My fear is in a real show situation where there are so many people,dogs, etc he might break to find me and then I will have a bigger problem to fix.


Protective of you or separation issues? Is he secure at home for 10 minutes or longer? This is the one area where those group classes can come in handy. But daily around the house and then out and about in public should help. Purina does their rent a ring twice a week I here. I think also, really long distance downs where he can see you would help--sorta what James is talking about. But sounds like he isn't comfortable being away from you yet and just needs more experience with it.


Terrasita


----------



## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

Stays at home are fine....but I think you need to get to dog in the actual situation of a show scenario to work on the anxiety. There are two schools of thought,...make the dog less anxious in the show scenario...so it will stay. Or make the dog so afraid of moving in a show scenario...it will stay. I show alot in the B classes and see really fine dogs blow nice scores over and over over stay issues. I am a big fan of the first scenario...makes for a better relationship IMHO. 

Dogs don't generalize exceptionally well...so you can work stays at home and other places alot...but still have issues with that very specific show environment.

Get to funmatches and show and gos and work your stays. Yes, its a pain...but its the only way I have ever been successful at stay behaviors...especially for a dog that does them over and over and clearly knows that in a show situation all bets for corrections are off. See if you can find a drop in practice and work them their. Different dogs and different dogs and different show type scenarios can only help. 

I work them just like above...randomize rewards....layer in some proofing that builds the dogs confidence rather than fooling the dog into making a mistake.

I would not put a anxious dog out there to fail stays in a show until I knew it was capable and calm...you may make it through...you will probably create an even bigger probelm to fix.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

For me it starts at home. If he is anxious at home, then count on it elsewhere. So I run the gamut around the house first. I do different rooms which involve different distances and for different times. Then I've done the yard. I can down on the porch while I go do things on either side of the house. Down on either side of the house with me out of sight. Once they are doing that well we take it on the road. The new Purina building has all sorts of possibilities. Finally if I were really proofing for the ring, then in a ring with other dogs and eventually where other dogs will get up and break theirs. Proofing includes crowds, other dogs moving around, etc. You can do this other than in a ring environment if you get creative. My gut says the anxiety is a separation issue so deal with it as an issue standing alone. And if this is an 18 month old dog, he's young and in the worry/pressure sensitive adolescent stage.

Terrasita


----------

