# since the other thread got locked!



## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

i thought it was interesting how the argument/debate/discussion of opinions played out.
as on the working dog forum the people with the experience or experts if you will, are malinois and knpv dutchy breeders and trainers there is that shift in power and discussions tend to fall in favour of the malinois or dutchy and the opinions of these breeders and trainers.
now on the gsd forum when the comparison of the malinois and gsd starts you see that as the majority of the "experts" their are gsd breeders and trainers, there is that "shift in power" and arguments tend to favour the gsd, and the maly/dutchy supporters are crowded out in a way.
For example Chris gets a bit of a "beating" by hans (gsd breeder of alpine k9 and associate of jinopo kennels) on the forum , know on this forum he would have probably got support from van leeuwen and suttle etc

Its just funny how the world works hay, the truth is whatever the "highest status" people say it is.


----------



## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Michael Murphy said:


> i thought it was interesting how the argument/debate/discussion of opinions played out.
> as on the working dog forum the people with the experience or experts if you will, are malinois and knpv dutchy breeders and trainers there is that shift in power and discussions tend to fall in favour of the malinois or dutchy and the opinions of these breeders and trainers.
> now on the gsd forum when the comparison of the malinois and gsd starts you see that as the majority of the "experts" their are gsd breeders and trainers, there is that "shift in power" and arguments tend to favour the gsd, and the maly/dutchy supporters are crowded out in a way.
> For example Chris gets a bit of a "beating" by hans (gsd breeder of alpine k9 and associate of jinopo kennels) on the forum , *know* on this forum he would have probably got support from van leeuwen and suttle etc
> ...


now


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

It is an interesting read because it debates the working attributes and history of each breed. Its also interesting to read regarding the training differences and which countries/LE/MW prefer each breed and why. Of course I'm only half way through it. I have no idea who's who except for a couple of GSD folks but didn't really see it as a numbers might makes right power struggle. 



T

Before this one gets locked too.[-X


----------



## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> i thought it was interesting how the argument/debate/discussion of opinions played out.
> as on the working dog forum the people with the experience or experts if you will, are malinois and knpv dutchy breeders and trainers there is that shift in power and discussions tend to fall in favour of the malinois or dutchy and the opinions of these breeders and trainers.
> now on the gsd forum when the comparison of the malinois and gsd starts you see that as the majority of the "experts" their are gsd breeders and trainers, there is that "shift in power" and arguments tend to favour the gsd, and the maly/dutchy supporters are crowded out in a way.
> For example Chris gets a bit of a "beating" by hans (gsd breeder of alpine k9 and associate of jinopo kennels) on the forum , know on this forum he would have probably got support from van leeuwen and suttle etc
> ...


I didnt realize I got a beating lol. I made a comment which Hans didnt agree with and I couldnt be stuffed arguing on a forum about something that I really dont care to try and convince people of. 
This is a working dog forum for all breeds and tastes. There are other forums which are a breed based forum. Is it really crazy to think that a forum made for lovers of a breed are going to push their breed forward? And a forum like this where its less about a breed and more about the quality of an animal are going to show other breeds in a brighter light?


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

shift in power??


----------



## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

I'd like to see the world through your eyes for about 30 minutes. I bet it would be interesting. I think i have heard most people with opinions i'd listen to on the wdf say "a good dog is a good dog is a good dog."



Michael Murphy said:


> i thought it was interesting how the argument/debate/discussion of opinions played out.
> as on the working dog forum the people with the experience or experts if you will, are malinois and knpv dutchy breeders and trainers there is that shift in power and discussions tend to fall in favour of the malinois or dutchy and the opinions of these breeders and trainers.
> now on the gsd forum when the comparison of the malinois and gsd starts you see that as the majority of the "experts" their are gsd breeders and trainers, there is that "shift in power" and arguments tend to favour the gsd, and the maly/dutchy supporters are crowded out in a way.
> For example Chris gets a bit of a "beating" by hans (gsd breeder of alpine k9 and associate of jinopo kennels) on the forum , know on this forum he would have probably got support from van leeuwen and suttle etc
> ...


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ok. couldnt sleep so read the 22 pages...

saw like 3-4 posts from Chris. (didnt count them) did not see any beat down in any form. I saw a dude putting words in Chris' mouth on one small point, and not getting what he was saying. That he does not want a dog to be thinking alot when put to a task, that he would rather the dog do the task., and Chris trying to answer the original question giving his opinion on the use of the breeds in Aus. as he sees it.

the rest of the entire thread seemed to be more a bunch of gsd people arguing and slinging mud at eachother.

what is this shift in power that you saw? I saw mostly GSD guys arguing with some dude that was not making much sense for the most part, a guy that apparently used to be into gsd specifically and now is also into malinois, and making really naive arguments based on the fact he got a GSD dog with bad hips and or produced abad litter, hard to understand, to the point of irritating everyone.

anyhow, was not fascianted by it personally, and still dont know what you mean by shift in power.


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> since the other thread got locked!


Just curious why your start this one about a thread that got locked because the Mods were requesting you not bring drama from one board to this one. Sorry, just wondering aloud to myself.



> i thought it was interesting how the argument/debate/discussion of opinions played out.
> as on the working dog forum the people with the experience or experts if you will, are malinois and knpv dutchy breeders and trainers there is that shift in power and discussions tend to fall in favour of the malinois or dutchy and the opinions of these breeders and trainers.


By "shift in power," do you just mean there are more Belgian and Dutch Shepherds being used? I think that is largely just because it's easier to find quality Malinois or Dutch Shepherds in decent numbers for sport or K9 work. People favor different things, some really like German Shepherds, others prefer Malinois or Dutch Shepherds (or various lines within the breeds). I'm not sure you can say there is a "shift in power (whatever that means), as Dave C. mentioned most will readily admit a good dog is a good dog. Some just prefer a/o have an easier time finding their idea of a "good dog" in certain breeds, lines, from certain breeders, programs, whatever.



> Its just funny how the world works hay, the truth is whatever the "highest status" people say it is.


I'm not so sure "the truth" is determined by who wins a virtual argument on discussion boards. Really, who gives a $#[email protected]?!!! I mean, yeah it might be amusing, but really, just research and find out what you like, get a good dog, throw some good training on it in whatever venue, and have fun with it. This isn't the NFL, the breeds aren't trying to lock down a playoff spot or clinch their division. There's no home-ice advantage by some Internet-awarded "balance of power" if your breed somehow gets prestige on a dog forum. They're dogs. If there are good examples in your breed(s) of choice suitable for your venue, and you are lucky enough to get one, if you get off the computer most people you meet in real life are usually happy for you and think that your really solid ________________ is pretty cool regardless of what somebody said on some message board they've probably never heard of and certainly don't take into their lives.

-Cheers


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Dave Colborn said:


> *I'd like to see the world through your eyes for about 30 minutes. I bet it would be interesting.* I think i have heard most people with opinions i'd listen to on the wdf say "a good dog is a good dog is a good dog."


Stare at a brick wall for about 30 minutes, that should give you a good idea. :lol:


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Stare at a brick wall for about 30 minutes, that should give you a good idea. :lol:


Exactly!!! 

Michael enough is enough, if you want to keep stirring the shit, please go elsewhere.


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Regards, The Stupid Director of the Fascist Nazi Thought Police!

:lol:

(sorry admins! Couldn't stop myself!)


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Regards, The Stupid Director of the Fascist Nazi Thought Police!
> 
> :lol:
> 
> (sorry admins! Couldn't stop myself!)


as secretary, I would like to point out that your title is not the Stupid Director of the Fascist Nazi Thought Police...it is...

The Director *of* Stupid, within the Fascists Nazi Thought Police.


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> as secretary, I would like to point out that your title is not the Stupid Director of the Fascist Nazi Thought Police...it is...
> 
> The Director *of* Stupid, within the Fascists Nazi Thought Police.


*Points up to Joby's post* What he said! :lol:


----------



## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

Hans has the most experience on the forum (it's his forum) whos going to argue with him? nobody. i can tell he is a smart guy but won't accept/admit that the current gsd might be lacking in certain areas and that the malinois is currently a more consistent working dog

i guess chris getting a beating" was the wrong word to use, what i ment was it was funny how what chris was saying about a dog thinking too much was in my eyes pretty obvious but the pro gsd guys would twist it and take it to extremes or act like they didnt understand what he was saying to "win" the debate in favour of gsd ( the smart thinking dog) vs the knpv malinois (apparently no problem solving ability)

a good dog is a good dog, but i think some of the "excuses " the gsd supporters had on that thread in that forum, would have been exposed on this forum as just that, excuses.......


----------



## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> Exactly!!!
> 
> Michael enough is enough, if you want to keep stirring the shit, please go elsewhere.


i would, but i know Alice would miss me. she wont admit it but there is a love hate relationship 8-[


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

What part of "Don't bring another forums problems over to the WDF." do you not get? Who gives a shit what Hans or anyone else says on that or any other forum? He is not the authority on GSDs and it has nothing to do with this forum.


----------



## Michael Murphy (Nov 27, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> What part of "Don't bring another forums problems over to the WDF." do you not get? Who gives a shit what Hans or anyone else says on that or any other forum? He is not the authority on GSDs and it has nothing to do with this forum.


how does this or the previous thread result in problems being brought into this forum?


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

If the other forums are so great, go with them. Thought the directive was clear the first time!!!


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Michael Murphy said:


> how does this or the previous thread result in problems being brought into this forum?


Why don't you ask the mod who locked the other thread you started about the exact same thing? 

It's nothing but pointless gossiping and shit stirring. Doesn't belong on this forum.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michael Murphy said:


> Hans has the most experience on the forum (it's his forum) whos going to argue with him? nobody. i can tell he is a smart guy but won't accept/admit that the current gsd might be lacking in certain areas and that the malinois is currently a more consistent working dog
> 
> i guess chris getting a beating" was the wrong word to use, what i ment was it was funny how what chris was saying about a dog thinking too much was in my eyes pretty obvious but the pro gsd guys would twist it and take it to extremes or act like they didnt understand what he was saying to "win" the debate in favour of gsd ( the smart thinking dog) vs the knpv malinois (apparently no problem solving ability)
> 
> a good dog is a good dog, but i think some of the "excuses " the gsd supporters had on that thread in that forum, would have been exposed on this forum as just that, excuses.......


Micheal you really need to sit back and read and analyze. no one said that the malinios has no problem solving ability. that is what YOU are saying...

If presented with the simple problem of a door being closed and a window being open, I dont think most malinois would have an issue going through a window. The other examples of a thinking dog may or may not have happened, but even if they did how can Hans say whether a Malinois that is a PET dog that spends lots of time with his family could not do the same things. 

In the instance of the story of the owner throwing the stick in the water and the dog going to the other side, it is great that the dog remebered the fallen tree 1/3 mile down, that he could use to get back accross the river on, since he did not want to go back into the water, but the dog also DID NOT retrieve the stick that was thrown for him to retrieve,,,you can also look at it that way.

The point Chris was making in the context of doing WORK was, that he does not want a dog to "think too much" about what he is doing, he just wants them to do it.

he is giving his opinions just like everyone else. I saw quite a few things that he posted that I for sure give a valid argument against regardless of the man's experience...but why go on his board and do that, I dont have the interest.

what are you expecting a GSD expert on his own board to do? say that he thinks the Malinois is better? get real... In his mind, for what he needs out of dog the GSD is perfectly capable, so if his dogs are doing whats he needs, how can one say another is doing what needs to be done, better?

there are pros and cons to every breed of dogs in everyones minds.


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Michael Murphy said:


> i would, but i know Alice would miss me. she wont admit it but there is a love hate relationship 8-[


In order to miss something there has to be something worth missing to begin with? 

Let me put it in terms that appeal to you... Extreme drive! You have it! Its a shame you use it for your mouth instead of applying it to your brain tho...


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Ruby said:


> Just curious why your start this one about a thread that got locked because the Mods were requesting you not bring drama from one board to this one. ...



Me too. The thread was locked with the comment about not bringing threads from other boards into this one. I have no idea how it could have been clearer.

Michael, now it's a warning.


----------

