# Appda



## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Jay and I resigned from APPDA today.

Now to have some fun with our dogs.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Really? May we ask why? I thought you guys started Appda????


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

We did...........


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## Ron Ackerman (Jul 29, 2007)

Well crap.

We REALLY need a legitimate PPD venue to proof our training.

Are you guys going to start something else?


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Don't think so Ron. I would hate to start something else after ASR and now this, it just wouldn't look right. I think we will just dabble in all others and still train as we have always done.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Really sorry to hear that Jerry. Yall were the first group I was exposed to in protection sports and I will never forget the knowledge and friendship I found in GA. Thank you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sorry to hear that Jerry! IMHO, it was you folks that put the word "legitimate" on PPD training.


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## Josh Smith (Jan 14, 2009)

Still looking forward to training with you guys. See you soon.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

About time you quit farting around with that shit. Time to get you guys doing Mondio. I think that you will have a good time with FR and MR and as an added bonus, it is legitimate sports.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jerry and Jay when one door closes, another opens. Get up early and ya'll can train with us on Sunday morning. LOL


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks guys, you can bet we're still kicking. Just another door to open.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

There you go Jerry! If you were here today, we would have you and Jay working in the 20 degree heat of the Maryland Eastern Shore...and it's still in the South!!! Refresh yourself!


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Don't think so Ron. I would hate to start something else after ASR and now this, it just wouldn't look right. I think we will just dabble in all others and still train as we have always done.


Jerry, I remember those days back then with ASR, Problem was other than you and jay it only left myself and Eric scratching our heads going why cant we jusy go ballistic and still have fun. But times go on and now we train as we wish and we train for a hard days work. Its a nice freedom to have, welcome to the dark side Lyda gentleman. LOL, enjoy your freedom and train like you never trained before. Good luck and hopely I see you guys when ever a date is put together.=D>


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

APPDA Split the Patrol and Protection Divisions into two separate divisions. This made some folks upset and they decided to leave. APPDA is still going strong and is still the most legitimate protection dog sport offered. We have trials planned this year in South Carolina, Augusta, GA, Ocala FL, Malvern AR, and North Carolina. 

APPDA would like to thank the Lyda's for their hard work and wish them the best in the future.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Like this shit is gonna last. Mondio is a much better PPD test than anything you are coming up with, and it is a legitimate sport.

Why even bother with something that was "just came up with" when you can actually do a legitimate sport ?? Is it fear ?? Is it the PPD small penis issue ?? WTF is it ?? 

Why the separation ?? With 12 people doing it, was it really that important to do so ?? Especially when two of the founders call it quits ??

Just another reason why dogsports in the US is such a goof. Everyone going which a way and scatter ****. 

Bunch of slack jawed *******. LOL


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

why am I not surprised I would get this post from you. Is the best you can do is call me a ******? Really? If dog sports in the US are so bad THEN MOVE. No one is asking you to complete and no one is asking for your advise.

Jerry and Jay were no the original founders, they helped yes, but not the original founders.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I thought the quote from predator was a funny touch. No one got it.

My fault.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

ShayCarl would get it. He would see the predator quote at the end and get it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opwAiSy7p9w&feature=sub

Can I stay in the US Matt ?? Please ?? Please ??


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ShayCarl would get it. He would see the predator quote at the end and get it.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opwAiSy7p9w&feature=sub
> 
> Can I stay in the US Matt ?? Please ?? Please ??


That was cute. Matt!!!! Please let him stay.

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

ShayCarl ROCKS !!!!

On a more serious note, The welcoming arms of a real live legitimate sport are open and waiting for the Lyda boys to come in from the goofballness.

Come to the light, we will entertain you with ShayCarls fat guy on a trampoline video if you do.

It is much more fun, and we would never dis our friends by separating into a "patrol" division.

The most painful thing happened today, and that was pics of Mac doing fagball. 

He just doesn't realize how close he is to getting his card pulled. Poor Mac, Poor untrainable Mac.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ShayCarl would get it. He would see the predator quote at the end and get it.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opwAiSy7p9w&feature=sub
> 
> Can I stay in the US Matt ?? Please ?? Please ??


Anybody ever think Jeff's just misunderstood? Horribly, horribly misunderstood?

Nice video though, and I totally forgot about that quote from Predator. You need to lead that in a bit more, some subtle Jessie Ventura allusions perhaps.

-Cheers


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Thanks guys, you can bet we're still kicking. Just another door to open.


I'd be interested what other doors open. Sorry to hear about that though as I had heard good things about ASR, and liked the concept, and had recently heard good things about APPDA. I have no idea what happened as far as your involvement and the dissolution thereof in either ASR or the APPDA, but they both seemed to be geared toward what I think a lot of people are interested in. Best of luck to both of you though, and the organization for that matter.

-Cheers


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
Nice video though, and I totally forgot about that quote from Predator. You need to lead that in a bit more, some subtle Jessie Ventura allusions perhaps.

Or, you could just get quicker. Throwing in Ventura is gonna give it away.


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*Question for the two Lyda gentlemen & Mr. Hammond*

First off let me express my respect for people actually
trying to do something, even if it is not always as 
successful as you might wish.

I believe that to make any real progress Americans need to
break off from the Euro tit and build our own programs, to
grow up and quit being children seeking approval.

Sure, get dogs, knowledge and help from Europe, but after
thirty years it is time for a step forward.

My view is that the primary problem in America is the complete
separation from police canine breeding, training and trial
activities, that no matter what the rest of us do, none
of it really matters.

Furthermore, more and more the real value of the police
dog is the olfactory capability, the search, some tracking
and substance detection.

This is an integral part of KNPV and Schutzhund, although
we all understand the practical limitations of Schutzhund
style tracking.

Ring sports have no tracking, but also make less claim
to real world relevance. I am not too much up on
Mondio ring, is that sort of like playing golf from the ladies
tees ?

Now then, what I would like your opinion on.

How much of the lack of success of these programs is
the general lack of higher level police involvement ?

I fully understand that you would welcome such involvement,
that you probably did whatever you could to get it.

But my question is, can such a program ever really have
long term, broad base success without finding away to 
include the police operations in a more substantial way ?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: I am not too much up on
Mondio ring, is that sort of like playing golf from the ladies
tees ?

Let me help you a bit. I know that you did (do) Schutzhund.

I think I can put in perspective, as I did the sport and went to Mondio. Everything you think you know about what a dog is capable of changes. 

I am not a big dog fan as far as personal protection, as most of what is out there is all hype. Look at that kid, he took a supposedly trained police dog and choked him to death. Look at the shredded clothes. It is just a small matter of time before the reality that once you take a dogs mouth from him, he is basically useless.

Mondio is not a pattern. I can make it so you simply cannot pass. You cannot do that in Schutzhund, as it is a pattern, and very easy.

Mondio needs a dog that brings it on his own. Sure, you can train things, but at least then you know you have a dog that gets choked out. Dogs like Dobes, and Bouviers and GSD's are all up against it, as it would be easy to design a trial to put them to sleep and BOOM, you all fail.

All the silly whipping and running about you see in Sch is just gonna **** you in Mondio. Your dogs thresholds are too high. If you had the balls to go and train this sport, you would see how sad your dogs will do. At least there is a chance in hell in Sch for you.

I am glad that you mentioned Mondio, it just goes to show everyone that you really do know **** all about dogs and are just a parrot.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The most painful thing happened today, and that was pics of Mac doing fagball.
> 
> He just doesn't realize how close he is to getting his card pulled. Poor Mac, Poor untrainable Mac.


LOL So I guess I shouldn't mention I've also been taking him to the Sch club and working on the obedience routine? If I train him for the MR obedience titles instead, can he have his card back? 
Admit it, those photos are like a car wreck, you just can't help looking. Over and over and over again :-D :-D :-D


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Mondio and French Ring are sports. While very respectable, and entertaining organizations, APPDA was not, and is not intended to follow, as another sport. 

APPDA is a test, to take a well trained dog, and place it in "real world" situations. These scenarios are an attempt to get as close as possible to the real thing, while still taking the dogs, and decoys safety into consideration.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> ...
> Why even bother with something that was "just came up with" when you can actually do a legitimate sport ?? Is it fear ??* Is it the PPD small penis issue* ?? WTF is it ??


 PSA is a sport that was "just come up with." Legitimate sport? JEFF!, It's still a SPORT, Mondio, SDA, or any other venue that PATTERN trains!!!!!!! Schutzhund is a sport and one I got screwed with, but it is a sport and an outlet some want or need. We need some form of working dog venue that isn't pattern training and isn't Fluffy focused!

PPD offers folks an outlet without pattern training and behaviors one has to work towards. Every sport venue AFTER schutzhund has been something that has been a COME UP WITH outlet. Give us some good information rather that the same old same old...](*,)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: APPDA is a test, to take a well trained dog, and place it in "real world" situations. These scenarios are an attempt to get as close as possible to the real thing, while still taking the dogs, and decoys safety into consideration.

So it is a sport. You are not doing magic here. 

Kadi. So Mac is gay. That would explain some things. HA HA

STOP MAKING HIM DO GAY FLYBALL


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: APPDA is a test, to take a well trained dog, and place it in "real world" situations. These scenarios are an attempt to get as close as possible to the real thing, while still taking the dogs, and decoys safety into consideration.
> 
> So it is a sport. You are not doing magic here.


Your right Jeff. What was I thinking, cause with over 7,000 posts.. surely, you must be the know-all of dogs... That is how its measured right?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No, it is measured by the fact that you keep banking off trees and cannot figure out that you are in a forest.

Still a sport, still a situation and a pattern, and you cannot figure that out. 

Go back and read the 7000 posts and get a clue. If you need help with the big words let me know.


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Predator quotes are good for all occasions. =D>




Anyways, being a newb perhaps my opinion doesn't count, but nonetheless I'm curious to know why a breed test/trial the likes of NAPWDA and KNPV cannot be started/opened up to civilians with the intent of titling dogs so they can be sold into police and military service? Forget all the PPD scenario based exercises with clown suits and just focus on a uniform set of exercises(and scoring system, or simply make it pass-fail) that test the dog against the working demands of a police service dog so the transition from sport/training to deployment is smoother(and perhaps shortened).


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

James Lechernich said:


> Predator quotes are good for all occasions. =D>
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I"ve been a member of USPCA for a good number of years. I've actually suggested USPCA develop a vendor type "certification". It could assist departments looking for trained dogs. They've elected not to do that. I don't know about NAPWDA I've never been a member. If memory serves me correctly, they do offer certification in cadaver to people outside law enforcement. Certification in the law enforcement community though is varied. There are only a few (less than 5) states that have mandatory certification. The more popular certification associations, in general, are all pretty much the same. A few variances here and there, but basically the same stuff. The one thing they all have in common; they rely on membership, paid membership, for their existance. 

DFrost


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

James APPDA was orignally set up , as the mission statement implies, for the people that wanted to test and trial their dogs in both PPD and PSD. The new APPDA is taking that away. The PSD is only for LE. So these Cert. and titled dogs can be used and sold into the police depts.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

Train your dog in whatever sport you like, take him to a vendor (that can offer a guarantee, support and training) and try to sell him. I am sure any vendor that travels to Europe to import dogs would love to buy a good dog. Just dont expect the big bucks everybody needs to make a profit.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

The new APPDA Patrol division, officially became effective 1 Jan and has just that in mind. Initially it is only open to LEO and LEO Venders in good standing. It focuses more on a Certification program, and less on a sport based points first, second, and third place system. 

The program focuses less on SchH fundamentals and more on that of KNPV. It will have, and will gain more, scenarios based on LEO Experiences and protocols (Thus, it being only available to LEO). Its goal will be to provide a testing ground for active K9, and green dogs hoping to fill the same roles.


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## steven sheridan (Sep 21, 2009)

I currently am a member of the Virginia Police Work Dog Assoc. It is pretty much a mirror to NAPWDA. I would love to see a venue that would provide the same service KNPV does for Holland, but our Assoc. only certifies the narcotics, explosive, cadaver, and tracking for civilians. Their only excuse for the controlled aggression certification for civilians is they don't want the liability. I don't see this changing until new people become board members in NAPWDA or VPWDA.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Michael Santana said:


> The new APPDA Patrol division, officially became effective 1 Jan and has just that in mind. Initially it is only open to LEO and LEO Venders in good standing. It focuses more on a Certification program, and less on a sport based points first, second, and third place system.
> 
> The program focuses less on SchH fundamentals and more on that of KNPV. It will have, and will gain more, scenarios based on LEO Experiences and protocols (Thus, it being only available to LEO). Its goal will be to provide a testing ground for active K9, and green dogs hoping to fill the same roles.


Michael,

Sorry, but when any sport organization starts "certifying" it's own dogs with the goal of selling them to Police and/or military it becomes a business and loses ALL credibility IMHO :=(


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*A little hypocrisy here ?*



Michael Santana said:


> The new APPDA Patrol division, officially became effective 1 Jan and has just that in mind. Initially it is only open to LEO and LEO Venders in good standing. It focuses more on a Certification program, and less on a sport based points first, second, and third place system.
> 
> The program focuses less on SchH fundamentals and more on that of KNPV. It will have, and will gain more, scenarios based on LEO Experiences and protocols (Thus, it being only available to LEO). Its goal will be to provide a testing ground for active K9, and green dogs hoping to fill the same roles.



The fundamental strength of KNPV is that it provides a linkage
between the civilian training and breeding community and the
police, both at the patrol level and the administrative level.

To run a program for "vendors" and the police trainers is the
height of hypocrisy !


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

David Frost said:


> I"ve been a member of USPCA for a good number of years. I've actually suggested USPCA develop a vendor type "certification". It could assist departments looking for trained dogs. They've elected not to do that. I don't know about NAPWDA I've never been a member. If memory serves me correctly, they do offer certification in cadaver to people outside law enforcement. Certification in the law enforcement community though is varied. There are only a few (less than 5) states that have mandatory certification. The more popular certification associations, in general, are all pretty much the same. A few variances here and there, but basically the same stuff. The one thing they all have in common; they rely on membership, paid membership, for their existance.
> 
> DFrost


Not familiar with USPCA but as an outsider the lack of mandatory certification is somewhat disappointing. That's not to say certification is a fail-safe, because nothing is, but in my opinion it levels the playing field and gets everyone on the same page. I can only guess as to why USPCA passed on this kind of idea but I don't think people would have a problem supporting an organization through paid membership that is apolitical(or at least biased towards the interests of producing PSDs), has a standardized scoring and training system(like KNPV) and is fun and rewarding for people to participate in(a title that means something and the ability to recoup training/ownership costs by selling dogs to departments) no matter how limited membership may be initially. 

I don't assume to know how everything would work out, but if you got those few states that mandate certification to adopt such a program why couldn't it grow into something big rather quickly?


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Michael,
> 
> Sorry, but when any sport organization starts "certifying" it's own dogs with the goal of selling them to Police and/or military it becomes a business and loses ALL credibility IMHO :=(


Thomas, 
I agree, this is not the intentions of the APPDAs Patrol section, quite the opposite. The separation of the Protection and the Patrol Divisions is focused on just that, provide something for everyone, while now offering an opportunity for LEO to test their dogs. It is based more on the growth of K9, and opportunities for the industries growth and improvement and less on membership dues and trophies. 

The protection will remain open to any wishing to participate.


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> James APPDA was orignally set up , as the mission statement implies, for the people that wanted to test and trial their dogs in both PPD and PSD. The new APPDA is taking that away. The PSD is only for LE. So these Cert. and titled dogs can be used and sold into the police depts.


That's unfortunate, Jerry. 

Forgive my ignorance regarding APPDA, but what affiliation does/did it have with LE? I ask because what I'm suggesting would be an organization akin to KNPV that is overseen by a multi-state/national LE body that allows civilians to produce dogs for police and military service. Obviously, a person can train and trial solely for sport, and adapt their dogs/training to PPD uses later on, but the standardization of trials(as in pass-fail) would be geared towards working environment of PSDs in the cities of member states(and eventally becoming a national organization).


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: A little hypocrisy here ?*



Jim Engel said:


> The fundamental strength of KNPV is that it provides a linkage
> between the civilian training and breeding community and the
> police, both at the patrol level and the administrative level.
> 
> ...


Jim, KNPV is a great program, we can only hope to achieve even half of what it has. But, with that said, APPDAs Patrol Divisions focus will be in the training and improvement of current K9, it will be heavily focused on LE protocols. While a system is being created, a large concern is, and will always be focused on operational security and the safety of LEOs.


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

As of last sept civiians can certify with uspca, i did in daytona beach fla last oct with about 75 teams there,i certed in explosive detection single purpose dog, wasn,t easy i will say that.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

"The program focuses less on SchH fundamentals and more on that of KNPV." 

What KNPV fundamentals do you intend to focus on?


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Keith Earle said:


> As of last sept civiians can certify with uspca, i did in daytona beach fla last oct with about 75 teams there,i certed in explosive detection single purpose dog, wasn,t easy i will say that.


Congrats, heard you did very well.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Mike, is Quality k9 Concepts and Dogs 4 Blue concidered vendors in good standing?


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

As of last Sept civilians can certify with USPCA, I did in Daytona Beach, Fla last Oct. with about 75 teams there,I certified in explosive detection single purpose dog, wasn't easy I will say that.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Michael Santana said:


> The new APPDA Patrol division, officially became effective 1 Jan and has just that in mind. Initially it is only open to LEO and LEO Venders in good standing. It focuses more on a Certification program, and less on a sport based points first, second, and third place system.
> 
> The program focuses less on SchH fundamentals and more on that of KNPV. It will have, and will gain more, scenarios based on LEO Experiences and protocols (Thus, it being only available to LEO). Its goal will be to provide a testing ground for active K9, and green dogs hoping to fill the same roles.


If it will be more of a certification program for LE, will you also have certifications on narcotics and/or explosives? Would this certification be available for support personnel? Exp. Zo is now trained for narcotic detection and we conduct searches at an oil refinery. I am allowed to certify under NNDDA and Canine Standards International.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Kyle Sprag said:


> "The program focuses less on SchH fundamentals and more on that of KNPV."
> 
> What KNPV fundamentals do you intend to focus on?


Sorry Kyle, that was in reply to a statment edited since then. 

To clarify, we are hoping to achieve a common goal, while being our own organization. The training and certifications of Police K9


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Kyle Sprag said:


> "The program focuses less on SchH fundamentals and more on that of KNPV."
> 
> What KNPV fundamentals do you intend to focus on?





Jerry Lyda said:


> Mike, is Quality k9 Concepts and Dogs 4 Blue concidered vendors in good standing?





Keith Earle said:


> As of last Sept civilians can certify with USPCA, I did in Daytona Beach, Fla last Oct. with about 75 teams there,I certified in explosive detection single purpose dog, wasn't easy I will say that.


Curious on your first statement, why is this second question being asked Mike ( must be for a reason ), please do share. 

Kieth congrats sir, I think thats great.=D>=D>=D>


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

_Mike, is Quality k9 Concepts and Dogs 4 Blue concidered vendors in good standing?-_


Jerry- I don't know the answer to this question, but I am sure you already do...:evil:
I am glad to see Matt and Mike stepping in fixing APPDA- and making it move in a positive direction!


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

kim guidry said:


> If it will be more of a certification program for LE, will you also have certifications on narcotics and/or explosives? Would this certification be available for support personnel? Exp. Zo is now trained for narcotic detection and we conduct searches at an oil refinery. I am allowed to certify under NNDDA and Canine Standards International.


Kim, haven't seen you and your LSU tent in a while! 

Yes, APPDA will have certifications that will fit your needs. It is still a young org. and systems are still being put together, but that is the end goal.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Mike which breeds of dogs will be allowed to certify?


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## Keith Earle (Mar 27, 2006)

meant to edit not double post, thanks mike and harry


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

I will tell you having to been to several seminars, trials and training with a variety of PDs that the desired Seperation between Civilian "sport" and LE type training has NOT helped LE with the quality of dogs, training, handling, performance and understanding.:-|


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Jerry, you know very well that QK9C has nothing to do with this. You also know very well that we (QK9C) do not certify our own dogs, as this is unethical. Furthermore, since a majority of the QK9C company, is involved with APPDA, No, we will not certify our own dogs, as this is unethical. 

Dogs 4 Blue is a non-profit organization.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Mo Earle said:


> _Mike, is Quality k9 Concepts and Dogs 4 Blue concidered vendors in good standing?-_
> 
> 
> Jerry- I don't know the answer to this question, but I am sure you already do...:evil:
> I am glad to see Matt and Mike stepping in fixing APPDA- and making it move in a positive direction!


Thank you Mo. Hope all is well with you and yours.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

No Mo I don't know but mike did say that LE and vendors in good standing would benifit from the sale of dogs that are certified by appda. Mike said this not me.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Jerry Lyda said:


> No Mo I don't know but mike did say that LE and vendors in good standing would benifit from the sale of dogs that are certified by appda. Mike said this not me.


Yes Jerry I did. you are letting your personal agenda and feelings get involved. Im sorry you left the way you did, as you left big shoes to fill. I and many other respect both you and Jay, and think very highly of you both, but to question our ethics is uncalled for.


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

Jerry you know well and good the answer to every question you are asking. 

Any dog currently working in Law Enforcement will be allowed to certify. All breeds will be allowed to certify in the Detection phase. 

QK9C DOES NOT, HAS NOT and WILL NOT certify our own dogs. This creates to many possibilities in the way of legal issues. Jerry you know this as you were once a part of the QK9C team before you quit. To bring our ethics and moral standards into question speaks volumes of your character and your own morals. 

Some say the best way to leave something is better then the way you found it, I say the best way to leave something is quietly.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

will fernandez said:


> Just a question--Since when do police dogs need to be certified in Georgia?


Will, as of now they do not, but we are hoping that a setting a high standard will help improve the industry.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

So, just to get this right, QK9C and Dogs 4 Blue aren't vendors in good standing? Just asking here. Where will Dogs 4 Blue get their dogs? 

I am sure that QK9C would never sell dogs to Dog 4 Blue that were certified through APPDA. I never said that. You guys are above anything like that.


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## James Lechernich (Oct 20, 2009)

Wow. This thread got ugly in a hurry... :-o



I'm envoking my newb right to claim ignorance and bow out now while I can.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I'm out of this too. Simple questions and you would think someone got thrown on a defense table.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Harry Keely said:


> Mike you have yet to answer myself or kyle regarding the KNPV way of doing things. **** that dude why is it that morals are even coming into question about yourself. We dont need people to stick up for you answer the questions for yourself and step up to the plate and be a man with honor. If there has been some wrongful doing say there has and let by gones be by gones. Out with the old and in with the New Year. We all have skeletons.


Harry, Sorry, I thought I already did...



Michael Santana said:


> Jim, KNPV is a great program, we can only hope to achieve even half of what it has. But, with that said, APPDAs Patrol Divisions focus will be in the training and improvement of current K9, it will be heavily focused on LE protocols. While a system is being created, a large concern is, and will always be focused on operational security and the safety of LEOs.


I'm not following what you're asking.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

_"No Mo I don't know but mike did say that LE and vendors in good standing would benifit from the sale of dogs that are certified by appda. Mike said this not me."_

Jerry you were part of the Quality K9 business in the past working for/with Matt- so it appears that your questions are just inflammatory due to your personal falling out - it seems you are negative right now and just want to put a negative spin things-it is a New Year, we need to keep all the personal crap and issues, egos etc out of this, out of dog training and get back to making the programs that are around more effective, even more fun....better dogs-for whatever goal the individual is trying to reach with their dogs.

If there is a program,for example a new APPDA, out there that tests the dogs efficiently-wether it be LE dogs,security dogs, personal protection dogs....training is going on, hopefully a clear headed dog, that can stand up to the needed pressures will benefit those needing that particular dog.


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## Matt Hammond (Apr 11, 2006)

Jerry Dogs for Blue is a non-profit org, as you know, D4B is set up to DONATE full service dogs to PDs that can not afford them. DONATE!! D4B gets its dogs from all over, not just QK9C. You are missing the point on purpose I am sure, If I Matt Hammond were to trial a dog in APPDA PD I would be judged by SOMEONE ELSE, just as you would be. SK9S is a vendor in good standing with APPDA, so you Jerry Lyda could bring your dog and certify. Would that make your dog any more or less marketable then mine, no, would it make it any more or less unethical no. Why start fires when you don't have to, just to see smoke I can only guess.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I do see your point Matt and you did explain it very well.

I'm sorry but Southern K9 Solutions is not and will not be a vendor for APPDA.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Keith Earle said:


> As of last sept civiians can certify with uspca, i did in daytona beach fla last oct with about 75 teams there,i certed in explosive detection single purpose dog, wasn,t easy i will say that.




http://www.uspcak9.com/html/certification.cfm


I'm confused. I'll ask Russ tomorrow, but the rules specifically state, must be an active full time law enforcement officer.

DFrost


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

David Frost said:


> http://www.uspcak9.com/html/certification.cfm
> 
> 
> I'm confused. I'll ask Russ tomorrow, but the rules specifically state, must be an active full time law enforcement officer.
> ...


I thought support personal could certify as long as they are under contract? Keep us posted.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

David 
Here is the rule change from the last board meeting:


September 29, 2009
The following By-laws were voted on in Des Moines and passed: They are effective immediately. Please note the changes in your By-Law books. The changes will be made on the National Web site as soon as possible. 


September 29, 2009
The following By-laws were voted on in Des Moines and passed: They are effective immediately. Please note the changes in your By-Law books. The changes will be made on the National Web site as soon as possible. 

Under Article VIII _5. There shall be a Special membership to the USPCA. These members shall be any persons so designated by a Regional Executive Board. Detector Dog Handlers whose work is done primarily for Law Enforcement, but are not employed by a Law Enforcement Agency full time or otherwise, may be granted Special membership to the USPCA with sponsorship in writing from a LEA who they have worked for as well as approval from the Region Board in which they reside. The sponsorship letter shall be included with their yearly membership application. Special members who meet these qualifications can be allowed to obtain a USPCA certification on a Regional level only from the geographical Region in which they reside. A Special member shall be liable for dues or assessments. They may attend regular meetings and may be heard at the discretion of the President. Special members cannot hold office, nor do they have voting privileges._
**********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Will, thanks. I'm embarrassed to admit; "I knew that". Old age is a bitch, I truly forgot. Thank you for the post. 

My apologies. I had forgotten about that special membership provision.

DFrost


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## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*Re: A little hypocrisy here ?*



Michael Santana said:


> Jim, KNPV is a great program, we can only hope to achieve even half of what it has. But, with that said, APPDAs Patrol Divisions focus will be in the training and improvement of current K9, it will be heavily focused on LE protocols. While a system is being created, a large concern is, and will always be focused on operational security and the safety of LEOs.


Mike,

I realize that there is a lot going on here and it
will spin out of control.

But I would like to make a point and ask a question,
without any double meaning.

My best friend in Europe is a KNPV judge, I was a
KNPV member for quite a while, and I have been
to quite a few trials and several training clubs.

To me the huge thing about KNPV is the cooperation
and mutual benefit that comes from these people
training and trialing together.

There are some precautions, if you have certain
criminal records you can not compete.

Now I am going to ask a question because I
really want to know the answer.

What threat is there to officer safety in this
sort of thing ? 

Yes, you need to take precautions, but you
need to take precautions when you go to the
corner to buy a loaf of bread.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no
"vendors" in Holland to sell dogs to the local
police, the connections are there through the
clubs. This cuts out the middle man and is
good for everybody.

Yes we need an American police level training
and supply system, but we need to break down
barriers, not set up a system to make money
for vendors.

If you want to do this off line because of the
board bull shit you can reach me at

[email protected]

To me this is the most important question for
the working dog in America, and if you have
serious answers I really want to hear them.


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

I am not interested in the political on-goings of this organization at all, yet I would like it if Matt or Mike would take a second to explain something to me.

As I understand it you are limiting the Patrol division to active LEO K-9 and vendors, is this correct?

If so… why? I am curious as to why you feel this will help the law enforcement world.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: A little hypocrisy here ?*



Jim Engel said:


> Mike,
> 
> I realize that there is a lot going on here and it
> will spin out of control.
> ...


Will Email soon.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

This sure got ugly and personal.

Please take the personal stuff to PMs so it doesn't have to be locked. Thank you.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Here is some "real world" non sport training. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eSmMK4SqRk

I feel totally confidant in saying that this is a sport. The dog let the owner get punked, JUST LIKE IN MONDIO, JUST LIKE IN FRENCH RING.

But yours is "real world". All 12 of you that are "real world" trainers.

God I am good at this shit. I can just see you guys pm'ing each other in a frenzy. LOL

Just like PSA you are doing a crappy job of doing Mondio.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Matt Hammond said:


> APPDA Split the Patrol and Protection Divisions into two separate divisions. This made some folks upset and they decided to leave.


Having two divisions, which we already had that in the first place, is not why we resigned. If we feel the need to explain our actions we are more than capable to do so on our own, thanks anyway though.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Gonna start training Mondio "for real" now ??


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