# Are Belgian Malinois as hyper as people say?



## Rick Ma

Most of the things I've read or heard about Belgian Malinois warn people about how much activity they need and how hyper they are. A Malinois breeder actually told me that they are like German Shepherds on crack cocaine. The way these people are talking, it sounds like I would need to get a treadmill and just leave the dog on there all the time when it's awake! :-o

I have a couple of questions for all of you Malinois owners.

1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?
2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?
3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?
4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?
5. Does it try to bite children all the time?
6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?
7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?

I'm looking for a pet/part-time schutzhund/family protector/best friend to hang out with me when I do stuff type dog. Will a Malinois be content with that? Or does it really need to run 5 miles per day?


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## Rick Ma

German Shepherd owners please reply as well. I'd like to compare answers between the two breeds. Thanks!


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## Mike Schoonbrood

A Malinois is a lot more than just energetic. This is what a lot of people don't get. It is also about the way a Malinois behaves. The aggression, the teeth, the biting, the cockyness. The first year is probably the biggest pain in the ass, puppies "never stop," and you can't over-exercise a puppy because of their joints.

Are all Mal's like this? No. But not all Mal's are made equal.

I have a Dutchie, but somewhat similar to a Mal....



> 1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day?


For the first year of her life, my entire days revolved around dealing with my 2 dogs. Now, on a regular day, I take her out to play fetch for about 20 minutes. I am on 1.7 acres, I use 2 balls, I throw a ball as far as I can, then when she comes near me I tell her to out and throw the 2nd ball in the opposite direction, so essentially she is at an all-out run constantly running after her ball for the equivalent of 1.25 miles a day. I have 4 dogs, I walk one dog a day, so every 4 days she walks 1.5 miles around the neighborhood with me. During the day she is either in the kennel, where she runs back and forth for most of the time making a horrible and annoying squeaking sound as she paces, or she is in the living room with me where she either sleeps on the sofa or keeps putting a ball on my lap, lies down and stares at me waiting for me to throw it. If I don't, she'll bark at me after about 2 minutes of staring  When I do OB with her, every 2 or 3 days, it's about 20 minutes. OB tires them out more than exercise IMO.

Bare in mind, she is less than 40lbs, very small, and probably takes less exercise than a dog twice her size.



> 2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?


If she is in the kennel I am relaxing  If she is in the house, it's about 35% hanging out, 45% bugging me with her ball, 20% over-reacting to every sound outside at which time she will dive over the coffee table (so far she's never knocked glasses off it in doing so, but I try to remember not to set anything down there), then over the sofa (she's too quick, haven't managed to get her to stop doing that shit either) and slams into the side window scratching at the glass barking at whoever is walking by (or not, as the case may be). At least she will stop the scratching if I tell her to knock it off. She's very sharp.



> 3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?


Sure, at age 2 I can sit through a DVD as long as she doesn't hear something outside to bark at. Thats what the pause button is for  But generally if there is nothing to bark at, no passersby talking loudly, no cats slinking along the windows or stuff like that, she'll just hang out and watch a movie, or lie on the sofa watching TV for 3 or 4 hours at a time. Once she settles down she settles nicely. Remember, she is 2, not a puppy, even though she's about the size of a puppy  



> 4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?


This isn't a trait of a breed, but rather the trait of a specific bloodline. Lyka isn't animal aggressive at all.



> 5. Does it try to bite children all the time?


I would never trust a young dog around kids, but as they grow up and learn what's what you can control it. Although, Lyka is very antisocial, so I don't trust her around people she doesn't know anyway. 



> 6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before?)?


Never seen a person on crack before, but I also have 2 GSD's and they are night and day difference.

While they can also be hyper and really annoying, and they are raised as outside/kennel dogs, rarely ever coming into the house, if I do let them in the house and give em a toy they will go lie down somewhere. When they are bored, they'll walk around a bit, jump up on stuff (never taught 'em not to since they are kennel dogs), and are a whole different type of dog. In the kennels they are usually sleeping, or barking at someone passing by, but they don't pace back and forth all day long.

Lyka at the same age was running around the house like she had a rocket up her ass. It was a (growling teeth chomping) fight to get her into her crate (now, she'll go in her crate, but if I go out for a few hours, I come home and the crate has moved about 4ft from her going nuts), she'd run around the house growling and barking for no real reason other than to be a snotty lil bitch. I couldn't pet her at all until she was about 10 months old without feeling her teeth. Till 6 months old she was basically permanently attached to my pant legs when I walked. She was a lil demon and I never pictured that she would ever lie down on the sofa to watch a movie with me. Even now if I put her on a leash she's bouncing around biting and tugging on the leash until I tell her to knock it off and keep walking. As a pup when she was on a leash she turned into a lil tasmanian devil spinning around snarling barking growling biting. I miss those days 

I am not saying these things as a negative, these are traits I like in a dog. They bring life to an otherwise dull household. I like annoying hyper aggressive dogs with cocky attitudes.

And don't get me started on the multiple-dog thing. Cujo and Lyka love eachother, and settle down nicely at night, but during the day they can drive me crazy. I'll tell them to settle down, I'll get into whatever I'm doing, then one of them sneaks over to the other and before I know it they're tearing up the living room again till I have to go break it up. I can't let both of them walk around at the same time, one of them has to be lying down somewhere. Usually Lyka, since she actually listens to her OB and Cujo is a snot. If one of them starts growling at the window, before I know it both dogs are going ballistic whether there is something there or not. It's really quite the circus having 2 sharp dogs around  Usually one dog will end up in the kennel and they will take turns in the house if I don't have time to keep dealing with them.

**EDIT: Just to clarify, when I say I have 2 GSD's, I mean working line GSD's. I also have a show line GSD, but he doesn't count. He's not that annoying


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## Howard Gaines III

I would say the Malinois is something like the Border Collie. To say they are hyper isn't always true. Some are and others aren't. It depends upon the lines and what you allow them to do. VERY ACTVIVE dogs they are. For the type of person who sits at home watching TV and wants a lap dog, this ain't it! [-X 

The dog needs exercise, a job, and lots of social training. It is a herding breed and as such all herds MUST be worked. Failure to do so will produce an animal that will cause you to find new four-lettered words! :-o


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## leslie cassian

1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family?
Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?

I have a Malinois and a LabX. I work a 9 - 5, M - F job. Dogs stay home in the house while I'm at work.

During the week, I spend at least 30 minutes in the park every morning before I go to work playing ball and doing a bit of obedience. Some nights I drive to the dogs to a wooded area and let them run off leash for an hour or so, but not every night. I try to get out to Schutzhund training at least once during the week as well.

Weekends are usually a long walk mid day off leash with a friends GSD's and training on Sunday.

Ronan is three now and much less demanding than when he was younger. From about 6 months old to about a year and a half, I went every day for at least an hour to the off leash trails to run or to play ball. Every day. Rain, snow, summer heat, feeling sick - we went, because if we didn't he was a huge pain to be around.

2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?

If I'm not at work or training, I'm usually at home with the dogs. 

Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls? Yes

4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?
Squirrels and bunnies are fair game for chase. At least one squirrel has lost that game. House cats are boring. It took about a week for a new cat to stop being of extreme interest and become boring. Strange cats get chased out of the yard. I wouldn't trust him with small pets. Has also gone after and left some nasty bites on a friend's sheep.

5. Does it try to bite children all the time? No, he likes kids, and is pretty social in general, however, he is careless with his teeth when playing and can be bitey when excited, so I am careful around kids.

6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?
More like a GSD with ADHD. Busy. Easily distracted. Nose into everything. Center of attention.

7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?
House dog. Sleeps on the bed. Passed out on the couch right now.

I'm looking for a pet/part-time schutzhund/family protector/best friend to hang out with me when I do stuff type dog. Will a Malinois be content with that? Or does it really need to run 5 miles per day?

I adore my Mal. He is unlike any dog I've owned, but he is very high maintenence. Yes, he can be relaxed and quiet, but he is no couch potato, content with a walk around the block. He can also be annoying, barking incessantly and wanting to play. He is from working lines, but was selected by the breeder as a pup to be a pet. He is too much dog to be an easy pet. I started schutzhund with him because he needed something to do, and I wanted the obedience. He has lots of drive, but as a competitive dog, he doesn't really have what it takes.


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## Anna Kasho

Rick Ma said:


> I'm looking for a pet/part-time schutzhund/family protector/best friend to hang out with me when I do stuff type dog. Will a Malinois be content with that? Or does it really need to run 5 miles per day?


Some of this depends on the lines, some breeders prefer dogs that can relax while others like crazy ones. I don't like hyper, to me this means a lot of silly energy with nothing to back it up. I did a lot of research to get Cyko, and then worried rather intensely because he was TOO good and TOO well behaved as a pup, and never did anything I disapproved of. Havoc has been the complete opposite, so far. 

1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?

I try for at least an hour of intense exercise per day per dog - that is, combined or separate, in one chunk or in several short sessions. Walks don't count. It has to be intense, tiring them out mentally or physically, to keep them sane. And keep in mind, a high-drive intense mal will kill himself rather than stop working, so you have to be the responsible one and stop in time...

2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or exercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?

Whoever I take to work gets to spend the day with me. Everyone else gets what they can mornings or evenings or weekends, as long as they're not driving me crazy. Some days they spend more time in crates, some days they're all out except for an hour or two. It depends.

3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?

I trained RELAX as an OB command, so I really can't say if they can... But they will if I tell them to. DVD's are most fun when there's a knock, a doorbell, or an aggressively barking dog in the movie. As far as bouncing off he walls, no. But without sufficient exercise Cyko will pace and pace and pace and shove toys at me (trying to bite me through the toy if I ignore him) and patrol all the doors and windows, barking at stuff, and did I mention pace and pace?? When he's good and tired he is content to follow me around the house and lays down watching intently in case I have something for him to do.

4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?

Nope. Every small animal in the house is mine and I lay down the law, and there will be hell to pay. So no, not unless I specifically allow this. Flies are fair game though. And the outdoor watchdogs (not malinois) can hunt critters all they want, and eat them too.

5. Does it try to bite children all the time?

No, but I can't stand children so I avoid them usually. 

6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?

Yes, and I really like the intense part. But it can be a bit much if you're not prepared for it. I see the major difference with GSD's is that a good GSD can be calm and quiet unless you tell him to turn it on. A mal is turned on unless you tell him to be calm and quiet. Puppies of both can drive you crazy equally well though :lol:

7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?

In house. I have a kennel, which is nice when I want to be rid of a dog for a half-hour or so. But I worry about them harming themselves or thinking up creative ways to get in trouble, they just don't settle. Pretty much the same as what Mike said about Lyka... Crates in the house work much better with them.


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## Khoi Pham

Rick Ma said:


> Most of the things I've read or heard about Belgian Malinois warn people about how much activity they need and how hyper they are. A Malinois breeder actually told me that they are like German Shepherds on crack cocaine. The way these people are talking, it sounds like I would need to get a treadmill and just leave the dog on there all the time when it's awake! :-o
> 
> I have a couple of questions for all of you Malinois owners.
> 
> 1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?
> 2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?
> 3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?
> 4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?
> 5. Does it try to bite children all the time?
> 6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?
> 7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?
> 
> I'm looking for a pet/part-time schutzhund/family protector/best friend to hang out with me when I do stuff type dog. Will a Malinois be content with that? Or does it really need to run 5 miles per day?


1. I do about 20 minutes ob/play with my dog almost everyday, you want to combine the 2, play alone does not excercise his mind, and yes I have a job and 2 kids and a wife, 1 session of Schuzhund a week is not enough for the dog to build upon what he learned on the previous session, it is too far apart, you will be moving forward at a very slow pace.
2. My dog stay in the house so I guess he spend all the time with him when I'm there.
3. As long as I want.
4. No killl anything unless I told him to do it. 
5. No way.
6. Maybe but I've seen GS with just as much drive as Mal. but them GS sheds all year long, I'm glad I have Mal now, they only sheds twice a year.
7.Yeah my dog live in the house with me.
It just depend on you, how you raise your dog, if you set the rules in the house and be consistent about it and maintain it and be a good and fair leader, and if you have the skill needed to release your dog energy and if your dog truly look at you as the alpha, he will not kill small animals, bite children and all that crap, he will look for signal from you first before he do anything, yes they have crazy drive but also perfect house pet, my dog's drive only turn on when we train, when he is in the house he sleep most of the time, it is me that always bug him and not the other way around, if you think that you can set rules and enforce it correctly then yes get a Mal, btw if you are doing Schutzhund, that will not make him automatic a family protector, Shutzhund is a sport, dogs are trained to bite the sleeve, but it is a great sport to teach you how to train and read dogs.
Good luck.


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## Jeanine Daugherty

Rick,
I have 1 Mal who lives with me permanently and always have at least 1 foster Mal at all times. I can't stand hyper so my 4 year old knows how to be quiet in the house and the fosters learn how to very quickly. Having said that, I walk/run my dogs on average 4 miles at least 4 days per week. I have a path that is 5 miles round trip, surrounded by woods and ending at a nice river. We walk that path frequently and as we go the dogs retrieve sticks from the tall grass (well over their heads) on the sides of the path and swim at the end. I am a teacher so in the summer it is pretty easy to wear them out. When I am working they are in their indoor/outdoor kennels for about 10 hours. I walk them at least 3 times per week and our walk is 4 miles long. I get up early to do this before work. The dogs go to obedience classes once a week and to Ringsport training once a week. When I am home my dogs (fosters included) live in the house with us. They sleep on the floor in our bedroom and hang out with us in general. I do not tolerate hyper or reactivity in a dog and they figure that out quickly. 

As far as kids, my female was at my school with me a few weeks ago, teaching 2 kindergarten kids about the right way to approach a dog. She played with my middle school kids all afternoon. I have an 18 year old son at home and she loves him and his friends. She used to go to work with me every Friday when I taught at a group home for boys. 

When Georgia first came here as a 8 week old pup we had a declawed, 10 pound, 14 year old Siamese cat who knew he was the boss of all animals. He was an excellent leader-discipling only when necessary. She loved him and was convinced that he could kill her if he wanted to! Until the day we had him put down due to cancer at 20 years of age she repected him completely. On the other hand, our neighbors free roaming cat has learned to stay on her side of the fence if she wants to live to a ripe old age having been cornered inside the fence once by Georgia and my daughters corgi. 

I do think that Malinois need a good amount of exercise to stay happy but I really like that, it kicks me in the butt to get my 50 year old self up and moving too! 
JEanine


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Rick, you sound like a nice guy, but part time bitework ? ? ? ? Just get a nice pet. I think you should pass on a Mal.


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## Rick Ma

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Rick, you sound like a nice guy, but part time bitework ? ? ? ? Just get a nice pet. I think you should pass on a Mal.


What I meant by part-time is that Schutzhund would be a hobby or a sport in which my dog and I would participate on a local club level. I would intend to bring my dog to Schutzhund training once a week. But I certainly would not be training to compete in any regional or national level competitions or doing this for a living. That's what I would consider "full-time". Do you think all Malinois owners should be "full-time"?


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## Rick Ma

Thanks to everyone who responded. All of your posts have been extremely informative and insightful. Please keep them coming! I am actually leaning towards a GSD now. But I still would like to hear as many opinions and advice from actual owners as I can. Your opinions and advice have been very helpful in my selection of a dog, breeder and type (working line vs pet). Thanks!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Rick, agility is a "fun" thing to do with your dog. Training once a week gets you pretty much nowhere, so what would be the point??? I took it that you were looking for a pet more than anything else. Quite frankly, a rescue Mal might be the way to go, as they have already proven useless.LOL I was just thinking of a dog that would let a cat "rule" the house. HA HA. 

Anyway, good luck with everything, and try a GSD. I love the breed.


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## Chris Michalek

Rick Ma said:


> Thanks to everyone who responded. All of your posts have been extremely informative and insightful. Please keep them coming! I am actually leaning towards a GSD now. But I still would like to hear as many opinions and advice from actual owners as I can. Your opinions and advice have been very helpful in my selection of a dog, breeder and type (working line vs pet). Thanks!



Actually sound like a rottie would be good for you. It's hard to find a lazier dog.


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## Anna Kasho

Rick Ma said:


> I am actually leaning towards a GSD now. But I still would like to hear as many opinions and advice from actual owners as I can. Your opinions and advice have been very helpful in my selection of a dog, breeder and type (working line vs pet). Thanks!


Whatever you choose, a "pet" from working lines will be a far FAR better dog than one bred to be "just a pet". Most good breeders are happy to discuss their lines and steer you towards the right dog when you tell them exactly what you want. IMHO.

I think a GSD makes an easier, less high maintenance pet. Just enough slower than a mal that you think you can outsmart him in training...


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## Rick Ma

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Training once a week gets you pretty much nowhere, so what would be the point???


How often do you guys train? All the schutzhund clubs in the area only meet 2 times a week. If 1 is not enough, is 2 enough to make the training worth it? Or are these people doing schutzhund work at home?


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## Mike Scheiber

I'm not going to go through the hole pro GSD thing but I'm sure your familiar with the term "Mans Best Friend" this is a direct reference to the German Shepherd to be more specific working lines. Though a Shepherd may be a notch or 2 less on the busy scale of a Mal they are by no means a couch potato. A working lines GSD MUST have daily play, training, exercise, challenge. Give them these things and they will think you and your family are god.


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## Mike Scheiber

Rick Ma said:


> How often do you guys train? All the schutzhund clubs in the area only meet 2 times a week. If 1 is not enough, is 2 enough to make the training worth it? Or are these people doing schutzhund work at home?


For my self I go to club 2 times a week and track at a minimum of 3 times a week I also do some sort of training every day. I don't expect to make it to the big dance podium I'm not that good of trainer but I really would like to show this dog I have now he's a good one.


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## Geoff Empey

Rick Ma said:


> How often do you guys train? All the schutzhund clubs in the area only meet 2 times a week. If 1 is not enough, is 2 enough to make the training worth it? Or are these people doing schutzhund work at home?


Like Mike S says there is a lot of homework. i.e. You don't go to the SchH club to practice heeling or other basic stuff at the club you do that at home. Plus a lot of the people that I train with that do SchH track a minimum of 3 times a week on top of what they do with the club. Just going to the club 2 times a week is going to grow your dog like a plant without fertilizer. The club IMHO is for working with the decoy and working with your training director to get the kinks out of your dog's program. If you don't do your homework you might as well forget about going to the club.


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## Mo Earle

_"Most of the things I've read or heard about Belgian Malinois warn people about how much activity they need and how hyper they are. A Malinois breeder actually told me that they are like German Shepherds on crack cocaine. The way these people are talking, it sounds like I would need to get a treadmill and just leave the dog on there all the time when it's awake!







"
_ 
_ I have a couple of questions for all of you Malinois owners.

1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough? _*we work full time, we have 5 MALS and 6 GSD's, sometimes I train the dogs,sometimes my husband, at least once a week we train together. Training could be obedience, agilitlyl, retreives an jumps, swimming, bite work...but something every day.!!

*_ 2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day? _*not a lot, but with 11 needing exercise, and working it doesn't leave a lot of free time-maybe a little time in the evenings.

*_ 3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls? _*Depends on the Mal- Hugo,Chico,Tora,and Rebel...Mals, they can sit and watch the dvd, but if you breathe different, shift in your chair, speak or clear your throat...they think it is time to go...could be a minute, or 2.....Tango, a Mal, on the other hand is a couch potato...in the house he is mellow, he loves to sleep in, and would stay in bed for hours....but ..on the field, he is great! Loves to bite, swim, retreive, but will do it on our schedule.... All our GSD's love to hang out, can relax , but are ready to go when you are.

*_ 4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?
_*Only one of my Mals...my other mals are fine, Hugo Mal, is a very good herder of cows, and all my Mals except one, don't care about other dogs, unless they are challenged by the strange dog, then it is all Heck breaks out.. I have one animal,dog aggressive GSD...otherwise no problem. So it makes it somewhat easy when we are letting them out.

*_ 5. Does it try to bite children all the time?
_*We don't have kids of our own, but Mals definately need to be socialized appropiately, otherwise they can go through a stage where some can become very nervy...but socialized appropiately they are great. All ours are good with our club kids, and other people.
I guess our GSD's except one, is fine too- but the one GSD...not sure what socialization he had..if any. 

*_ 6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?
_*I think it depends on the actual dog...Tango, Mal, we got from Paris-his sire is a FR111 champion- is awesome, mellow in the house, past out on the floor by me right now, but he also has done ASR 11, trained for PP, worked a little bit as a security k9, is super social also, has been trained in APPDA-the patrol side, and got his Brevet in FR...Hugo,Chico,Tora and Rebel , all Mals, on the other hand, I would definately describe as a GSD on Crack...and RED BULL and Monster drink...all at once, and yes I work as a Trauma Nurse, seen a lot of losers on crack....:-#
it can be very draining if you don't wear them down a little first. For the first 2 years, I didn't think I would ever get hard head Hugo under control...now he is a blast to work.
It depends on the dog though...I have one GSD, that we just took in 22 months old, bit his previous owners mailman and family member, they gave him back to their breeder- he is a ton of energy, but had NO direction, no obedience, I am sure no socialization...since I have been working him, he is doing awesome- but is a ball of energy also. My other GSD's are pretty mellow.
years back We had one other Mal we got from D.M. from Paris also, Racky...he was older a french ring 3 dog, way to much for us to handle at the time, very handler aggressive and intense, so we gave him to someone that was more experienced than us...which was better for the dog....the point being....they are all different. 

*_ 7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?_ 
*we have 2 GSD's in the house, and One Mal, Tango in the house...we tried to have Hugo in the house, but he is only good in a crate, as long as he doesn't see or hear you move-once you do, that's it...time to go go go......\\/the rest of our dogs are in an air conditioned kennel with indoor and outdoor runs. (but the Mals needed toppers on the runs, otherwise, up and out they go...6 foot high is nothing to them.)
but grooming wise- Mals are much easier to maintain...as far as brushing, washing, and seem resistance to fleas - and I must say, I personally love the intensity, but they aren't a starter package dog. I think if you can handle a Mal, successfully, you probably can handle any breed of dog. It has made my kenneling business easy ...dealing with all the breeds and temperments. good luck Mo
*


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## Bob Scott

Neither of the two mals I had stayed long. I realize not all are like the ones I had but the envoronmental issues drove me crazy. If they were in drive they did fine. If not, they seem to worry about everything that moved. My GSDs have always accepted anything I've exposed them to with little or no adjustments needed. 
I've heard a number of people refer to the Jack Russell Terrier as a Mini-Mal. I've had many working terriers over the years and all but one of them have had absolutely no issues with environmental stuff. 
The comparison stops with the high energy level of both. 
Aside from the Mals I've had,most of the ones I've seen seem to be in workaholics and have a harder time just being a dog then the GSD. . My GSDs and most I know and have seen are more into sharing and being part of a pack. 
I also think a working line GSD is more user friendly for a new dog owner. 
All JMHO! :wink:


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## Jeanine Daugherty

Wow Jeff, your response regarding rescue Malinois and a Mal that would let a cat rule the house sure felt like an unnecessary slap! I foster Malinois on a regular basis. I am delivering one to his new home today and getting another in on Sunday. I don't think that the owners of those Mals would agree with you about their uselessness. Most of the Mal we get in are not working dog wash-outs, they are dogs purchased as pets by people who didn't do the kind of research needed. 

In regards to a Malinois allowing a cat to rule the house-the Mals were "told" from day one that they would allow the cat to rule the house or not live in it! The cat had been with us for 20 years and deserved to live out his years unharassed by a dog. I am not the biggest cat fan in the world, he was my husbands cat, but I do feel that my dogs are not the only animal in the world that deserves respect and kindness and my protection. 

I train Ringsport with that same Mal. While I am very new to the sport I can tell you that she has at least enough guts to do what I am asking her to learn as I make my new sport mistakes on her while at the same time being a sane, balanced dog. I have trained dogs in other sports for a long time and I learned a long time ago that what is most important to me in a dog is that it s a good companion for me. I want a dog who can go anywhere I take it-a family gathering, my school, to the park, etc. We will both have a better life because of it. It sounds to me like that is what Rick was looking for too and I do believe you can gt that in a nice Mal. Maybe not in one that will go out and kick major butt in the protection sports, but I can tell you they can do a nice job and be a great pet. 

Jeanine


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## marta wade

I am not a long time Mal owner and have only owned two. I agree with alot of what has been said. It really depends on the breeding and how you raise the dog. My first Mal now passed was really energetic but would love to sit and cuddle-she was a protection/shutzhund reject so she was missing some drive. If I failed to play/work/walk her every morning and night while she was young it would not be a pleasant day for me. Like some others mentioned this was the extremely reactive/sharp type barking at most things near the house. She was fine with kids, but cats and squirells were not safe but I did not stop her since I did not own any:-\" 

My current Mal is just over one year and I would say YES she is on crack! She does not cuddle unless she is tired from playing ball & working obedience& going for four mile walk and definately not as long as a DVD maybe a third of the way through she will be up and asking what is next!? I do work and my routine is up around 5/6 AM let her out to go potty with a ball in her mouth, then we play fetch and I give her balls she pushes around the yard herself. While I make coffee she must have something to do/chew. If I am sleepy and forget to give her something she will pace, find other things to chew, stare at me, pace find toys and punch me in the stomach or leg with the toy...Once I have a little coffee we will go for a minimum of two mile walk, practice ob and throw ball for about 15-20 minutes. When we return she is relaxed but not tired. She is crated while I or my husband are at work. Normally we are opposite shifts so she is not crated all day. In the kennel in the yard she will dig and bark and we have neighbors that do not appreciate dogs on crack.:lol: i dont go to work until late afternoon and return around 11 PM I repeat part of the morning routine taking her outside, playing ball, sometimes OB...I do take her to various activities when I can such as protection sports (couple times a week) agility or rally training...

I think a MAL is not the dog for many people but for some it is the best! Do lots of research on the breeder and dogs related to any you consider. Decide how little sleep you can live on and any others in your household. Marta


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## Kadi Thingvall

If you are considering a Malinois, be prepared for the first year to be a little, um, challenging LOL They can be a LOT as a pup. But if you raise them right, right being raise them to fit into your household, they can also be a lot of fun and IMO not that hard to live with.

At any given time I have anywhere from 8-12 Malinois. Ranging from puppy (ie a few months) to 11 years old. I also have a full time job. But since I have so many dogs, they self-exercise for the most part. Turn 4 or 5 Malinois loose in the backyard, and watch the fun begin LOL I train some of the dogs 3-4 days a week, depends on the dog and the day. IE a couple go to the FR club 2 days a week. 1 goes herding once a week, some will be worked at home on obedience, jumps and/or protection, etc. 


1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?

I would say I spend a couple hours a week actually training any 1 dog. 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there, then 30-45 minutes at each formal session at the club. I don't train every dog every day, that would be a fulltime job itself. I think 30 minutes of training a day, plus the time at the Sch club would be enough to keep the dog happy, but I agree with the people who said 1 session at the Sch club a week isn't going to get you very far very fast. Unless your 30 minutes a day are spent working on the things the Sch club is showing you.

2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?

Quite a few hours, since at least some of the dogs are always underfoot when I'm home. I don't know if I'd call it relaxing, since when I get home from work my "second job" has just begun (cleaning the house, spending time with my son, taking care of the dogs, etc) but we hang out.

3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?

Depends on what I'm doing, and how old the dog is. It would be a stretch for my 8 month old pup to watch an entire DVD without wanting to get up and bounce around. No problem at all for my adults. Although if I get up, they will get up. To see where I'm going and what I'm doing. After all, I just might be going to the fridge to get a steak for them, at least they can always hope LOL

4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?

Other pets, no. Although I don't consider the chickens pets either LOL I have had cats, and also had small dogs, without problems. However the dogs KNEW the cats were off limit, and they knew the JRT was a dog, so they treated her like one. Squirrels, rabbits, etc are pretty much fair game, some of the dogs are very keen on that, other's don't really care. 

5. Does it try to bite children all the time?

When they are puppies, they use their mouths a LOT. Resulting in them sometimes being labeled aggressive, dominant, etc when they are not. It's prefectly normal for a 3 month old Malinois pup to be cuddling up to someone, licking and wiggling, get overly excited, and bam bite them in the face. I am VERY careful with my young Malinois and children. As they mature though they do learn proper and improper behavior, ie when they can and can't use their mouths, and they can become more trustworthy around kids. I have some dogs that are very good with kids, I have others forget it. They are either to excited to be around kids (mouthy and such) or they just don't like kids. Sometimes they love them, but that won't stop them from plowing the kid over when they wave a toy above their head so ...

6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?

Beats me.

7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?

Both. All my dogs sleep in the house, either in crates or loose. During the day some dogs are in the house, some are outside in kennels. When we are home some will be loose in the house, some loose in the backyard, and others are in/out of the kennels. Nobody is crated/kenneled all the time, they all get "family time".


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## Maren Bell Jones

1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?

I have two purebred Mals and a Malinois/GSD cross. I usually spend 20-30 minutes a day with Fawkes the youngest doing obedience, water retrieve, etc. Or we go out on the off leash trails with all the dogs. My best advice is that if you get a decent trail bike and ride with them off leash, that will wear them out nicely. I'm getting a building membership to the local agility training facility, so we'll start that soon in a little more earnest, but it's hard to keep him off the equipment. He thinks he owns it all. :-D I would love to do a protection sport again, but there isn't a ring sport in my state and the closest Schutzhund club is Bob Scott's club. Unfortunately with vet school, I would only be able to make it out once or twice a month, especially during the school year, and I don't want to be that "hey, I'm here! Train me!" person. I have two part time jobs, I'm in vet school, and I'm married.


2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?

They're all asleep now, even the youngest (14 months old) is asleep near my feet. Oh wait, Malinois don't sleep...they wait...

3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?

The youngest probably couldn't sit still through an entire 2 hour DVD until around 11-12 months old, assuming he got a good hour of off leash exercise in. At 7 months old, he could probably stand about 5-10 minutes of stillness to work on a bone or toy before he hopped up to get into more mischief. He was left in the crate a LOT as a pup. He still got lots of exercise and training, but this was more to get it in his mind how to be calm, relax, and not try to eat everything in the house. ;-)

4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?

I've got a ferret, two snakes, a rat, and a goldfish. He was interested in the ferret's cage at first since it's on the ground and dogs LOVE ferret poop. He'd try to nip at him between the bars of the cage at first, but that got nipped in the bud pretty darn quick. I actually had the ferret somehow get out of his cage about a week ago and Fawkes just bounced around after him play bowing at him before I managed to intercept the little evil weasel. Outside kitties are not tolerated.

5. Does it try to bite children all the time?

He's tried to nip at kids before out of the fast moving prey drive and gets corrected pretty hard for it. Then he gets they are fine. But he's not especially fond of them. My female Mal is a certified therapy dog at the Children's Hospital. She much prefers kids about 8 and up as the little screaming ones she doesn't care for. She has never offered to bite.

6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?

I'd say more on speed. I tell people they are like crossing a working German shepherd with a working border collie. Very intense, almost always alert.

7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?

They all live in the house. Fawkes sleeps free in the house, but is crated when we leave the house.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Wow Jeff, your response regarding rescue Malinois and a Mal that would let a cat rule the house sure felt like an unnecessary slap!

I ****ing hate cats, and no matter what I said to my dog, the cat wouldn't last.](*,) 

Quote: I don't think that the owners of those Mals would agree with you about their uselessness.

Pet people still believe in Lassie, so what are the odds that I am wrong ????=D> =D> =D> 

Quote: I train Ringsport with that same Mal. While I am very new to the sport I can tell you that she has at least enough guts to do what I am asking her to learn as I make my new sport mistakes on her while at the same time being a sane, balanced dog.

Are you sure of that???? I have yet to meet a "balanced" Mal in the classical sense of the term.:grin:


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## Maren Bell Jones

I dunno, Jeff. Especially in Malinois rescue, it seems like they were turned over usually through no fault of their own. I think it'd be possible to get a nice diamond in the rough from Malinois rescue to do sport with rather than say through GSD rescue. Not that a GSD from rescue would be impossible either.

My female Mal from rescue has the drive to be a fun club level sport dog. Fawkes outweighs her by probably soon to be 10 lbs, but she tugs harder for certain. I was told by the vet clinic who turned her over to rescue that she was "from working lines." I just can't do bite work or even much tug work due to the nerve damage in her neck.  I may try rally with her as she's got nice natural attention. She's more bonded to me than any puppy I've had.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

People have different standards for their dogs. What one person might see as a good sport prospect, is a junker to someone that expects more.

It is the distinguishing point between a "sport dog" and a dog that "does sport."


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## Mike Scheiber

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> It is the distinguishing point between a "sport dog" and a dog that "does sport."


One of the better statements I have heard in a wile. Good one!


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## Kadi Thingvall

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> People have different standards for their dogs. What one person might see as a good sport prospect, is a junker to someone that expects more.


I'd even tweak that a little to "expects different". I've seen top level sport dogs I wouldn't want to own, and dogs that aren't going to be top level dogs that I would want to own. Each person looks for something different in a pup also, when looking for a prospect.


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## Michael Santana

Rick, 
Im sure if you keep looking for what you want you can find it. I have a 9 month old mal and he is great, exactly what "I" want. He sits and watches TV, or takes a bone to a corner and just relaxes. Outside he is all play. He loves bitework and fetching. I believe that it is all how you bring them up to be. If you get a young pup and teach him an on and off switch from the get go you should be fine. You might find it difficult to bring an older one in and teach it those fundamentals you are looking for.
Some have worded their opinions here, as entitled, and given you excellent information. Others, a little disrespectful in my opinion. Take it lightly and see things through. Maybe you can ask a mal owner for a little "demo" of the dog in more than just the sport aspect. Good luck, hope you find what you are looking for.

-Mike


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I'd even tweak that a little to "expects different". I've seen top level sport dogs I wouldn't want to own, and dogs that aren't going to be top level dogs that I would want to own. Each person looks for something different in a pup also, when looking for a prospect.


Yeah, thats what I meant, thanks Kadi  English being my first language and all, sometimes I can't find the right words. Wait... no... yeah, er, you know what I mean


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## Geoff Empey

Rick Ma said:


> Are Belgian Malinois as hyper as people say?


This question is pretty loaded and you have gotten lots of great answers and rebuttals. Some other advice I''ll give you is be careful of what you read on the internet especially on places like dog breed info http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/belgianmalinois.htm Sure it is a general description and it is pretty good, but there is so much more to know about the Malinois than what is to read there. 

People always seem to want a Malinois that behaves like a Golden Retriever .. but they are not even close. Even with all the research I did before picking up my pup which was supposed to be a pet btw. Dod NOT prepare me for the first year of my dogs life. Malinois pups are pretty intense, it is not when they are adults that they are over the top. It is that first year they are really zippy dee doo daa then like any other dog they get more focused and calm as they get older. 

If I had to do it all over again I'd be visiting as many breeders as I could as well as as trying to attend as many dog sport where Malinois compete to talk to the handler/owners. Even if your local police force have Malinois see if you can talk to them. Seriously the more the merrier.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I have found a huge difference in what people consider a good dog, let alone any of the BS working dog people like me come up with.

I personally could give a shit if a dog was calm.......ever. I am sure I could convince it to be calm, but Mals are "all the rage" now, like the Rottweiler was in the 80's. Rotts are not beginner dogs, and neither are Mals. All we need is to encourage part timers who, lets face it, are not going to train the dog to get a Mal. Like we need more of this going on. 

This has nothing to do with who Rick is, I am sure he is nice, but lets be realistic. Think about the percentage of part timers who "want to do something fun with their dog" that actually do anything. 

Got a lot of good dogs that way.


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## Rick Ma

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I have found a huge difference in what people consider a good dog, let alone any of the BS working dog people like me come up with.
> 
> I personally could give a shit if a dog was calm.......ever. I am sure I could convince it to be calm, but Mals are "all the rage" now, like the Rottweiler was in the 80's. Rotts are not beginner dogs, and neither are Mals. All we need is to encourage part timers who, lets face it, are not going to train the dog to get a Mal. Like we need more of this going on.
> 
> This has nothing to do with who Rick is, I am sure he is nice, but lets be realistic. Think about the percentage of part timers who "want to do something fun with their dog" that actually do anything.
> 
> Got a lot of good dogs that way.


Thanks for the advice Jeff. I think you've convinced me that I need one of these dogs instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKAeihiy5Ck


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## Lindsay Janes

Howard Gaines III said:


> I would say the Malinois is something like the Border Collie.


 Really? Are you serious? That statement makes me very happy! We have a border collie who comes to visit once in a while; however, he is my sister's dog. My parents got Riley for my sister's birthday. We had him since he was a puppy. I lived with him for three years until my sister got married and moved out. She took him with her. He was a great jogging buddy and I have always thought I couldn't handle a malinois. If their temperament are kinda similar, then I can handle a malinois! :smile:


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## Kris Dow

Not about Mals or GSDs specifically, but I wanted to reinforce what's being said about kids and dogs, namely that no matter what any given breed is known for, it depends a LOT on the dog.

My field-line cocker spaniel is enormously popular with kids because she looks kind of like a stuffed animal, but she honestly doesn't care for them. (She's never offered to bite, but she will take any chance offered to get away, and has that 'please get me out of here' look if she can't.) And well-bred cocker spaniels are generally considered to be reasonable family dogs- it's just her preference. (She doesn't like hyperactive dogs with no manners either.)

Also, it depends a lot on the kids. Some dogs might be perfectly happy with kids who are dog-savvy and willing to interact appropriately, but not as tolerant of kids being 'kids', whereas others don't care what kind of attention they're getting. (The former is my cocker spaniel- if the kids leave off trying to pet and cuddle her, and start throwing a ball, she's in heaven.)


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## Lee H Sternberg

That is great advice Geoff. I just want to emphasize that within any breed there is all kinds of different temperaments. Others have pointed this out on this thread. I have two here who both love kids. But one is so antisocial with adults she wants to bite everyone but family. She is the same with strange dogs. My male is very social and never met a dog he didn't want to play with.

Both are the same breed but have entirely different temperaments.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Lindsay Janes said:


> Really? Are you serious? That statement makes me very happy! We have a border collie who comes to visit once in a while; however, he is my sister's dog. My parents got Riley for my sister's birthday. We had him since he was a puppy. I lived with him for three years until my sister got married and moved out. She took him with her. He was a great jogging buddy and I have always thought I couldn't handle a malinois. If their temperament are kinda similar, then I can handle a malinois! :smile:


Well, they are similar in their intensity. They have a similar "eye" to them. I brought Fawkes and my foster Rottie into a pet store today to go buy Fawkes a new collar (just after that collar thread, he lost his in the woods, d'oh!). He likes to look at things and people intensely. Not in a necessarily challenging way (he's almost 15 months and hasn't tried to pull rank with me), but just very focused sort of way. It's like they are always tracking something in an appraising way. My female is the same way. 

They kind of remind me of raptors. Even when you've got a "friendly" relatively trustworthy and well fed hawk or falcon on your arm, they are always watching and appraising and it can be unnerving to people. It's just something that I tend not to notice myself because I am used to it, but other people point out to me. My female foster Rottie (and my male husky/Rottie mix) are both kinda goofy, mellow, people oriented. But the Malinois are not mellow, even when they are physically exhausted from several hours of off leash exercise.


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Mals are like Border Collies? Are Border Collie pups also aggressive, like to growl and bite everything? I'd never heard of a border collie being anything like a Mal other than perhaps the energy level. Perhaps I haven't been around the right border collies?

I know people with incredibly high energy bc's and they'd die if they had to live with a Mal.


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## Lyn Chen

Probably like BCs in terms of the handler sensitivity and the way they work (tendency to act first before they think).


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## Gillian Schuler

like dog , like handler you mean 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Geoff Empey

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Mals are like Border Collies? Are Border Collie pups also aggressive, like to growl and bite everything? I'd never heard of a border collie being anything like a Mal other than perhaps the energy level. Perhaps I haven't been around the right border collies?
> 
> I know people with incredibly high energy bc's and they'd die if they had to live with a Mal.


I know what Howard is saying Mike .. 

Sure the obvious difference is the biting thing they don't call them Belgian Biters for nothing! 

But the energy level, intelligence and athleticism of both breeds are very similar. YMMV


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## Katie McLellan

I have had my Mal pup for a little over a week and am relieved to read the responses to this post. I was expecting a very intense and active dog, but I also thought she might sleep at some point. When she does sleep she seems to resist it the entire time.

I go on a minimum of two walks a day with Grimm and my collie. We also go out several times a day to toss the ball around when she's getting too crazy in the apartment. 

I have cats and when I can't get her to stop eye balling them and attempting to leap onto the countertops, that's my signal that someone has too much energy to be inside right now. As for eating them, I don't think she intends that, but I am careful because her teeth are razor sharp. 

On the topic of teeth, I don't plan to have her around any children until she is old enough and trained enough to know what is acceptable to nip at and what isn't. 

I've never seen a GSD on crack, but I often find myself thinking that if my sister's terrier were on speed it would be a lot like Grimm.


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## Geoff Empey

Katie McLellan said:


> On the topic of teeth, I don't plan to have her around any children until she is old enough and trained enough to know what is acceptable to nip at and what isn't.


I think you are making a mistake by not letting her have controlled exposure to children. My dog has been raised with a 4 and 6 year old sure there was some moments by both the dog when she was really young and by the kids continually to this day. 

But now my dog is actually really good with small people because of the exposure. She is brought into kindergarten classes when I pick up my son and to soccer and it is not a problem. She doesn't have any interest for kids as prey items. And this is a Ring dog and one of the most prey driven dogs I have ever seen.


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## Bob Scott

Geoff Empey said:


> I think you are making a mistake by not letting her have controlled exposure to children. My dog has been raised with a 4 and 6 year old sure there was some moments by both the dog when she was really young and by the kids continually to this day.
> 
> But now my dog is actually really good with small people because of the exposure. She is brought into kindergarten classes when I pick up my son and to soccer and it is not a problem. She doesn't have any interest for kids as prey items. And this is a Ring dog and one of the most prey driven dogs I have ever seen.


 
Absolutely!!


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## Maren Bell Jones

Agreed! I don't have kids, but I made a point of having kids give Fawkes treats and whatnot. It served a dual purpose to do a little public service type education in showing how to correctly give a treat to a strange dog (with a cupped hand) and how to act (don't shriek, don't flail your arms around, etc). He is still not particularly fond of the real little ones (5 years and older are great as long as they pet nicely) and if they shriek and run away, he sometimes air snaps because of the movement. Which he gets soundly corrected for. And this is why I teach dog bite prevention to the kids who I do childcare for at the church I work at NOT to shriek and run away. I'm actually doing a presentation on it in two weeks for the kids at church with Lily and Dolly (my foster Rottweiler who I'm starting to train as a therapy dog).


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## Carol Boche

Katie McLellan said:


> I have cats and when I can't get her to stop eye balling them and attempting to leap onto the countertops, that's my signal that someone has too much energy to be inside right now.


Don't let her fool you.....if she has prey drive, your cats may feel the wrath later on when you are not looking. 



Katie McLellan said:


> On the topic of teeth, I don't plan to have her around any children until she is old enough and trained enough to know what is acceptable to nip at and what isn't.


I would start now, trying to introduce an older Mal to kids can be difficult if not impossible. My older Mal is triggered by small, quick kids and this is because she was not socialized properly to them when young. She is okay on lead around them, but off-lead.....UH...NO.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

if a puppy has a decent temperament, and good obedience, does it really have to be exposed to children????? This is some serious pet bullshit. What happens when the puppy just doesn't like children ? ? ? ? Do you still work and train the dog ?? ? ?


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## Maren Bell Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> if a puppy has a decent temperament, and good obedience, does it really have to be exposed to children????? This is some serious pet bullshit. What happens when the puppy just doesn't like children ? ? ? ? Do you still work and train the dog ?? ? ?


If you want your dog out in public and you don't want your dogs killed and a lawsuit, yup. They don't need to smother the kids in kisses, but neutrality, yes. The good obedience is part of it, as you mentioned.


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## Carol Boche

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> if a puppy has a decent temperament, and good obedience, does it really have to be exposed to children????? This is some serious pet bullshit. What happens when the puppy just doesn't like children ? ? ? ? Do you still work and train the dog ?? ? ?


Jeff, 
I am in the field of Search and Rescue, and I also am asked to do a lot of PR stuff with the dogs. So while I agree with you, I still need to have at least one or two of my dogs socialized to kids. 
The kids are not allowed to "maul" the dogs though. I want my dog to stand calmly, their attention on me and the kids get to pet the dog on the back.


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## Gillian Schuler

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> if a puppy has a decent temperament, and good obedience, does it really have to be exposed to children????? This is some serious pet bullshit. What happens when the puppy just doesn't like children ? ? ? ? Do you still work and train the dog ?? ? ?


 
My answer is yes.

My elder GSD wasn't struck on kids as a pup - just the tiny ones that belonged to a family who had a pup the same age and we let them play together - the kids were often with us and he loved them. I have to walk through the village for 2-3 minutes before I get to the woods, football field, etc. and the kindergarten kids usually come screaming down the hill but luckily, GSDs aren't so popular here- not fluffy enough maybe. All I need is for my dog to treat them neutrally. After all, why should all and sundry come and stroke my dog. The Fila Brasileiro loved kids and they loved him - if it works, ok, if it doesn't - leave it.


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## Kris Dow

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> if a puppy has a decent temperament, and good obedience, does it really have to be exposed to children????? This is some serious pet bullshit. What happens when the puppy just doesn't like children ? ? ? ? Do you still work and train the dog ?? ? ?


It doesn't have to like them, just to tolerate/ignore them in the vicinity. From that perspective, it seems like exposing the pup to kids (and the attendant running and shrieking) is a reasonable thing to do as part of exposing the pup to the world in general. If the kids approach, the dog should behave appropriately (i.e. no nipping or trying to pounce OR play without permission) and expect the handler to deal with getting the children to leave it alone or directing the interaction.


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## Geoff Empey

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> if a puppy has a decent temperament, and good obedience, does it really have to be exposed to children????? This is some serious pet bullshit. What happens when the puppy just doesn't like children ? ? ? ? Do you still work and train the dog ?? ? ?



Sure do Jeff! It's not even Pet bullshit per say. I look at every situation as a training exercise for the dog including exposure to younger punk kids. 

I have lots of kids in and out of my house with the kids we babysit to the killer on the adult head kid birthday parties. We've sometimes have had 25+ kids in a 1400 sqft house including a magician and a dumb pony in the back yard. So while yes the dog was tethered to me she didn't lose her mind or even stressed out about it. 

Sure you can't prepare for everything and the dog still may bite a kid one day if a kid did something stupid. But hopefully the groundwork that was laid by me will defer that from ever happening. With todays litigious society I do not want to lose my dog and my life savings to something as preventable as a bite on a kid.


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## JMB

Rick Ma said:


> Most of the things I've read or heard about Belgian Malinois warn people about how much activity they need and how hyper they are. A Malinois breeder actually told me that they are like German Shepherds on crack cocaine. The way these people are talking, it sounds like I would need to get a treadmill and just leave the dog on there all the time when it's awake! :-o
> 
> I have a couple of questions for all of you Malinois owners.
> 
> 1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?
> 
> Mine was trained as a pup but is super hyper almost all day if my kids are around.
> 
> 
> 2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?
> 
> I try to throw the ball 3 times a week at a park.
> 
> 3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?
> 
> Dog rarely relaxes... Constantly pacing, whining. We have our routines but if my kids or gf is around, he can’t relax.
> 
> 4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?
> 
> Mine doesn’t give a care in the world of other dogs. I don’t keep him on a leash at the parks. He only wants his ball to play with and will allow others to play but he is big, strong and fast. He’s not aggressive just plays hard. Sidenote: He will defend himself against any size dog if attacked. Does not really acknowledge other dogs. Even up close.
> 
> 5. Does it try to bite children all the time?
> 
> Kid friendly, allows strangers/kids to pet him. He plays a little rough at times, shows teeth, very vocal and can get scary but a stern warning and he’s waging his tail
> 
> 6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?
> 
> YES! And speed. Can rarely tire this dog our
> 
> 7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?
> 
> Lives in house, can be let outside in back yard, no fence and will not wander out of backyard. Just plays with his toys. Both
> 
> 
> I'm looking for a pet/part-time schutzhund/family protector/best friend to hang out with me when I do stuff type dog. Will a Malinois be content with that? Or does it really need to run 5 miles per day?
> 
> Mine really needs to run more. I throw the ball at the park..can be busy there, dog walkers, kids, etc. He will chase his ball and only come right back. Nothing distracts him from play time. I have people almost everytime comment on how well behaved he is. (Psycho hyper crazy at home at times). Kinda like kids. Have had other dogs drink from water bowl on a hot day 2 feet from him. Doesn’t care. Just want ball. After a day out at the park, we go home and immediately wants to go out and play more. Car rides can be tough as he knows the area, where we are going. Hyper in car. Sleeps well at night.


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## Jackson

I have a couple of questions for all of you Malinois owners.

1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?
2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?
3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?
4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?
5. Does it try to bite children all the time?
6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?
7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?

I'm looking for a pet/part-time schutzhund/family protector/best friend to hang out with me when I do stuff type dog. Will a Malinois be content with that? Or does it really need to run 5 miles per day?
[/QUOTE]

1. I'll try to answer these questions as honestly as I can. Maybe others who will read can gain some insight from this also. For me, I do contracting-type work and I work from home a lot also, thankfully, because I have this dog now. During the first year of my malinois' life, I fortunately was with her almost every waking hour from the time she was 8 weeks old. Had I not been, I cannot fathom how her personality would be different, but it would be somehow. 

I almost do not have a set schedule on "working/training" her. Every hour of every day is a constant with this girl, and I'd say 30 minutes a day of activity is a bare minimum, or simply not enough for her at all. We are always together, even if I'm on a job site. She has routines she sort of needs to get through on a daily basis as to simply ease her mind and relax some of the intensity of energy and drive that she has. For example, I live on a few acres(I could not imagine her being in an apartment do not do it do not do it) and there are many deer. So many consistently in fact, every night she goes and runs them off to the edge of the property and returns. She sees them as trespassers, and once they're off the property, she no longer engages them. After she runs off the deer every night, her willingness to relax and carry on is much, much better. She "does her rounds" and she feels a lot better afterwards. I simply allow it as it seems to contribute to her sense of duty and having a role. If I'm working on something, she wants to be involved in it. I don't have to coerce her into these things. She wants to help with whatever people are doing it seems. She's rather nosey and eager to be in the action right with you, and as you can imagine this can be a bit much sometimes, but usually not too bad.

I have two room-mates, and one of them isn't keen on how a dog thinks/operates at all, and especially not the malinois. She's used to little lap types like chiuahuas, which, compared to how this malinois is, seem like almost pointless pets to have for this girl. She doesn't really train them in any way, and they have many undesirable behaviors and contribute nothing to the home but un-due self-esteem issues and incessant, horrible, shrill barking and yapping. I cannot stand people who allow their dogs to act this way. She thinks the dogs understand her, and they do not at all. They aren't my dogs, and she will not listen to my advice. And they don't care. She is not a role-model or leader to them in any way. It is frustrating to have this breed around others who don't fulfill their own dogs in better ways. This malinois of mine could never stand to be that way regardless. She will find ways to fulfill even herself at times that I am busy. She is very, very driven to "be good" and "succeed." She seems to almost investigate her surroundings. And this girls dogs literally lay under a blanket on a couch in a den for hours upon hours upon hours on a daily basis, and I don't understand the point of having dogs if this is how you intend for them to exist. I will only be here temporarily, and I cannot intervene at this point. All I can do is make sure that my malinois is free from their influences. 

With this being said, my other friend here knows that I trust him to engage my dog in a healthy way when I am not around sometimes. I do not entrust her to the woman here, as she would negatively reinforce bad things, as she does with her own dogs unfortunately. People must comprehend these things when owning these pups. They tend to pay very close attention to your activities, are concerned with their owner and surroundings, and socialization is more important with this dog than any other dog breed I have ever raised. They are not casual breeds, not for beginning dog owners, and not for anyone desiring a more typical dog. This dog has completely changed many areas of my entire life. People who will react negatively to the energy of this dog simply need to be separated or removed from the situation and the dog's life IMO, and their interactions with them should be under your supervision when unavoidable. I could only imagine the terrible consequences of one of these dogs being mistreated, unfulfilled, or especially abused. 

2. When we are alone together, having her relax and carry on with your typical dog passtimes is easily done, but she can be easily distracted. Her comfort zone is in my company and alone. When other new people are around, she can be excitable and wanting to engage with others. It takes a good deal of time for her to "calm" herself around new people and situations sometimes, and if you want a dog who's going to sit there, lay on a couch and mostly do nothing, this isn't the dog for you. If someone unknown knocks on the door, she has an almost deafening bark, also. But she doesn't just bark at anything. It can startle you, and she's made my ears ring before. When around a new dog, it's very common that she simply doesn't run out of energy and "wears out" the other dogs. She always is ascertive and confident around other dogs. Positive reinforcements, calming demeanors, lower voices, and creating a relaxing atmosphere also help to keep her from "overthinking" things. New people who are loud or who "talk with their hands" a lot should expect my dog to engage with them quite a bit. She will be very interested in whoever that is. We don't really have any "times" we allot for any of these things. 

3. There isn't really a number I can say. She will be fine given that the "situation is normal" but say she wants to go out. She will very, very clearly let you know this, and if you aren't prompt, she can be very persistent. She will get between you and your phone, computer, TV screen, etc, if she needs to go outside and pee badly enough. If for whatever reason she is "bouncing off the walls" it will almost always have something to do with an outside stimuli. As a puppy, yes, some of her antics would truly baffle me, but in a way I've not seen in other breeds. They seem to be less apprehensive than any dog I've had, and are very, very ascertive and confident in my case. Dogs with bad socialization and self-esteem issues often don't take to her very quickly because she wears her confidence in her body language. These dogs have VERY intense energy and drive. They are very, very curious and also sharp. She tends to be concerned more than she is passive. She takes things head-on and tends to not want to show weaknesses or fearfulness.


4. When she was young, she was very interested in any sorts of animals she encountered and frequently would fearlessly make a straight-shot for whatever it was, almost without fear or hesitation, but she has never attacked any of these animals. It was almost again,"investigatory." She wanted to size up whatever it was. She has never attacked anyone or anything, but she is quick to figure out what they indeed "are about." She's only confidently walked around whatever it was, or purposefully scared it away from us/the house. I am outside with my dog quite a large amount of the time, and as time has went on, she no longer cares about bugs, birds, squirrels, etc. She just had to have more exposure to get over the distraction they caused her, and such small creatures are no longer an issue. She still likes to go ape chasing lizards but it's of no harm and sort of amusing. 

However, she sees cats as threatening and I am proceeding slowly on her engaging with cats. Her energy noticeably changes around them, and it's with great intensity. I can tell her body language is that of a dog who feels threatened, and could act. Unfortunately this arose from bad experiences she's had with cats before as a puppy, and I keep the cat here in a different wing of the house. She is getting more comfortable with the idea, and she freaks out far less than she once did when she was younger, but again, I am approaching that situation slowly and with caution. I don't think it has much to do with her breed; again, she had a few bad experiences with them growing up that she hasn't let go of. But even at a time she could have attacked one, she didn't, and just gave it a lot of hell and made sure that the cat was scared of her instead of the other way around. One day I know she will be a lot better with them. 

5. I'll be honest. When I raised her from a wee-little pup, she put her teeth on things more than any breed I've ever seen, but not aggressively. These dogs tend to like to "play rough," and that can turn off many people and it can be confusing for very small children. Their intensity and a very young child may not be the best combination for this reason, especially if you didn't raise the dog since birth. I see a young malinois as inadvertently having issues with small children rather than purposefully. I had to be very, very consistent and patient with her to completely end her from playing with others with her teeth, but I don't outright say it's a complete no-no. I engage her with a phrase that lets her know it's going to be okay to "play rough," and it's a completely made-up word as to not have someone accidentally uttering the phrase. My dog isn't a "family" dog per se, but I've never seen anything these dogs couldn't learn without being very, very consistent with them. Just be certain that you at least have complete control of them around these domestic situations as to not lead to little accidents of playing too rough or being too high energy for a small child is my opinion on that matter. These dogs are atheletes, not lap dogs. But with proper training I could see this dog being incredibly protective of a family unit and especially of it's children. My girl simply isn't around kids very much that it concerns me, and if she is, I am in control. 

6. Honesty again. Yeah, it would probably seem that way in some senses. They really seem to have endless energy at times, can be unashamedly loud, are very bold at times, and get themselves into sort of silly circumstances. I'm not sure how she runs as fast as she does, and it's astounding how high she can jump. She also can balance herself very well, has incredible agility, and she wastes no time doing anything. She doesn't tend to go find a stick, she tends to come back with an entire log or maybe even a whole branch. They investigate their surroundings, and they're sniffing out things constantly. She ALWAYS wants to play. She can be awake all of 5 seconds and PLAY MODE if you encourage that. She tends to find ways to more urgently/quickly communicate with me about little things, she can learn new things in mere minutes with positive feedback, and she loves to learn stuff and figure it out. She is very eager to be good and she seeks approval for a lot of things. When she was a puppy, teaching her to sit/lay down was mastered in a mere few minutes, which astounded me. If she was laying down already, at full attention, and told to sit, she would actually sometimes leap up into the air instead of standing up, and then land on the ground in the sitting position! It's as if she was like a soldier shouting SIR YES SIR!!!!!! German Shepards are very driven dogs themselves and very easy to train also, but I'd say the biggest difference in her(and that I see online and hear from other owners) and a shepard is that her driven-ness is a few steps above that of a typical shepard, which is saying A LOT. Most people could not deal with this as their first puppy and I would not advise it at all. She's even taken me for a loop. I've had to re-evaluate a lot of my own techniques raising a dog. She pays very close attention to me sometimes. Most recently for example, she has taken a keen interest in figuring out how to open doors, open gates, and open dog gates. She will open the backdoor without fail. I've seen her take a running start, hop up at the handle, fling the door wide open and continue running outside. I often have to lock that door now. Screen doors she will open with little effort, and if you require a dog gate at a certain part of your home, ours has needed to be quite secured, and fully latched for her to not circumvent it. She knows full and well when it's not fully secure, and doesn't even try to open it when it's secured. On the front door we have an electronic deadbolt that opens when pressing a button, and it closes behind you when you shut the door. She has successfully activated this button a few times now, although this door's handle is trickier to open. I know one day though, she will have figured it out and we will need to change it up. Chain-link fence gates must have master locks on their handles. I have to watch this girl sometimes, but for her own good. She's still only about a year and a half old, and people say I haven't "cleared the hump" with her intensity. She typically means well, but she tends to learn little things "the hard way," also. but learn she does. 

7. Here's where it gets interesting. We coexist. Some people may not be this way with their malinois, but she sleeps at the end of my feet, I tend to not go places without her, she has never required a leash unless we walked close to a busy road, and she has never shown any interest whatsoever in being very far away from me. She is by far the most incredibly loyal and mindful dog I have ever had, and she and I go on tons of adventures together. She knows it's kind of a "me and her" thing, and that others are kind of not in our "unit." Being consistent in the words and phrases I have used with her has been key to our communication, and while what I say to her may sound silly to others, it's what she understands. "Quit trippin" means tone whatever intensity she's having down a notch, "it'll burn you everytime" is a cover-all phrase meaning "puppy, whatever you're nosing around in right now is not going to feel good", and "what's ya doin with it" means go get your toy and let's play, to name a few. I know some people train these dogs to do incredible things, but I'm very happy with her and proud of her. She is very vocal, and interacting with her gets a lot of response. I can tell this dog actually loves me and seeks my own love and approval, which is sort of a first in my life with a dog. She knows she's good. Our favorite thing is to go camping at a river close to me. She never leaves my side, she helps carry stuff on her harness and it's so freakin' adorable, and she has a blast soaking in nature all night. I've gotten her to start understanding how to hunt crawdads under riverbed rocks, and hopefully she won't get snagged by one haha. It's our little passtime to go out camping and a major source of our bond. She also loves running with me on my mountain bike through trails. I know I can trust this girl with my life! It blows a lot of people away that I can take her anywhere. She's one of a kind. If you've ever played Fallout, she's more like a Dogmeat than a Beetoven, but I wouldn't have her any other way. 

I'll conclude this with a few statements. These are not very typical dogs. In many ways they're really not like German Shepards. I'm not certain they are an ideal "family dog" that would be mostly indoors with the family. These dogs need to see the world, they need to learn things, do things, and contribute things to their "pack." They are a handful, require a real commitment, and if you didn't want a best friend, you have a really intense best friend now if you got one. I had to learn a lot of patience when she was a puppy, as I realized she was unlike any dog I'd had previously. This is a learning experience for me as well, and I'm no expert by any mean, but I would recommend teaching them "manners(they can be quite reckless at times)," nip it in the bud their mouthy and teethy ways, methods and commands that help them calm themselves in times of high energy, and give them things to do. Always be consistent in how you train them, do NOT give them negative feedback, and make sure they know they feel loved. Now that she mostly understands me and our life's routines, I make sure she knows she's a good, good girl! It motivates her to keep being better and better. They need to know they're doing a good job! When I look at her now, I see a little sidekick, a partner, and not a pet dog. She has useful qualities, and she can indeed be just that--useful. Sometimes I think she's more like a tool of sorts than a "pet." When I think of a pet, I think of something we as humans own to covet our own selves, but this girl, and like many I assume feel about the malinois, is that it's much more than a pet to them. These dogs won't be sane just sitting around in someone's house all the time. This dog has totally changed how I have to even live my life at times, but I am thrilled with her and these dogs are NOT for casual owners. I lucked upon her, got her for free at 8-weeks old, and I had no idea what I was getting myself into. It's taken a lot of mindfulness, persistence, and patience to understand and accept her for what she is, but now, I don't think I can go back to owning other breeds. All their qualities are next-level. Their puppy antics, teething, their intensity, their energy, their loyalty, their ability, their intelligence, their drive, their body language, their communication, and their love and loyalty for you are all next-level! Sorry if this was long, but this has been my experience with the Belgian Malinois. Please feel free to respond with insights, anyone.


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## drewski1972

Rick Ma said:


> Most of the things I've read or heard about Belgian Malinois warn people about how much activity they need and how hyper they are. A Malinois breeder actually told me that they are like German Shepherds on crack cocaine. The way these people are talking, it sounds like I would need to get a treadmill and just leave the dog on there all the time when it's awake! :-o
> 
> I have a couple of questions for all of you Malinois owners.
> 
> 1. How much time do you actually spend working/training a Malinois per day? Is that every single day? If so, do you guys have jobs and a family? Would 30 minutes per day + 1 schutzhund session per week be enough?
> 2. How much time do you spend with your dog not training, working or excercising (in other words just relaxing) per day?
> 3. How long can your dogs relax for? Can it relax with you while you watch a dvd without jumping around and trying to climb up the walls?
> 4. Does it try to kill every small animal (including other pets you own) every chance it gets?
> 5. Does it try to bite children all the time?
> 6. Is it really like a German Shepherd on crack (please be serious... have you ever seen someone one on crack before? - it's rather intense)?
> 7. Do they live in your house with you or do they live in a kennel?
> 
> I'm looking for a pet/part-time schutzhund/family protector/best friend to hang out with me when I do stuff type dog. Will a Malinois be content with that? Or does it really need to run 5 miles per day?


I train and play with my Belgian Malinois for at least 4 hours a day sometimes 10 hours. Yes he is like a German shepherd looking for his next hit of crack cocaine. If I wasn't insane myself, there is no way I would be able to handle him! I am not joking at all, and the Belgian Malinois is nothing to joke about either. You have to be dedicated to the breed. It does kill small birds but he lives with me and 2 other dogs, a Dutch shepherd and a chocolate lab, he plays rough, but doesn't hurt me or the other dogs. His bark is insanely loud also.


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