# This is why your dog needs to bite arms



## Daniel Lybbert

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9fy1m_ulko-face_sport


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## Timothy Stacy

Scoop with stick hand is still illegal, no? Two times in that video

i agree with you Daniel, nice video!


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## Timothy Stacy

It's dangerous!!! There are some people on here who have seen just how dangerous that baton can be to the face of the dog. Not to mention when it starts falling apart like it did in the video! Very very sharp. I believe if one of the flares broke off half way the dog could literally be stabbed in the side while being scooped! 

Didn't the Vietnamese use bamboo in some crafty ways?


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## brad robert

So does that mean ring is unrealistic,cruel to dogs and gay?


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## Geoff Empey

Daniel Lybbert said:


> *This is why your dog needs to bite arms*


But don't create an arm chaser while you do it.


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## Timothy Stacy

brad robert said:


> So does that mean ring is unrealistic,cruel to dogs and gay?


Gayness is also illegal in ring but accepted throughout the world in SCH


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## Chris Keister

Couple of observations and opinions......

1. Did not see a "scoop" but a continuous barrage and pushing with the stick hand. Dog was never really inside the arm and when it was, the arm was not really in a C shape. 

2) the top level decoys always bend and sometimes break the rules. 

3) phenominal footwork and speed. 

4) some lack of commitment in the dog and indecision at one point as to which leg it was targeting. 

5) people who say ring is "just a game" and doesn't test the dog don't know what they are talking about. 

this is what I love about ring. Dog vs decoy and the decoys get a lot of leeway. No excuses when it comes to the training and the courage/commitment of the dog. If the judge didn't like it he would tell the decoy to knock it off.


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## Daniel Lybbert

I didnt see anything illegal. He put the stick down, the dog ran into it and the decoy just moved his feet around the stick. Didnt see anything dangerous either. Sticks break all the time. Its how it goes in ring. That is one of the best face attacks ever! I wish I could do that.


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## Robert Palmer

?

Looks like a game to me...a rough and vigorous game, but a game nonetheless.

Ain't nothing wrong with that, though.


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## Timothy Stacy

I'm not exactly sure what letter of the alphabet his arm made but I did see a obvious attempt to "push" with the stick hand. Bend rules ok but not on a rule to protect the dog!


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## Timothy Stacy

Robert Palmer said:


> ?
> 
> Looks like a game to me...a rough and vigorous game, but a game nonetheless.
> 
> Ain't nothing wrong with that, though.


Yes, I agree! Just a game of tag!


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## Timothy Stacy

One minute 37 seconds begins the infraction in slow motion it's pretty obvious! 
Yes sticks break :-$ thus the reason for the rule. 
The stick comes under the dog and it could easily gore the dog in the side!
I don't get a chubby from watching guys in a suit but a lesser of a man might!
Fernando obsession is a treatable condition. Mostly treated by finding a hot chick to fascinate over!


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## Peter Cavallaro

Fernando obsession???? Please explain.


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## Jake Brandyberry

Fernando Dosta is the decoy in the video


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## maggie fraser

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Fernando obsession???? Please explain.


I looked it up....American for OCD I believe.


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## Timothy Stacy

American for "hot in the loins"


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## Peter Cavallaro

Thanx, but wish I never asked now.


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## Chris Keister

Tim seems to have an issue with anyone at the top of their game. 

Ellis, Dosta, is there a problem with Bellon too?


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## Peter Cavallaro

I think Tim just likes to razz disciples, healthy imo.


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## Jake Brandyberry

He doesn't have a problem with either one of those guys. He has never said Ellis is a bad trainer or Dosta is a bad decoy. He has issue with the blind following that Ellis has and how when anyone has a basic training question there are those people whose first response is Ellis does this or get this Ellis video etc. Forcing people to think om their own and pointing out that just because someone puts a video out, it isnt all their original thoughts and methods. Ellis did not create marker training or touch pads or any of the other things his videos are on. Has he streamlines a method and made it easy for any average dog trainer to understand, yes.
Dosta is a great decoy bit this is one of the biggest issues we have in the states when it comes to ring. All the videos people from France post are either from the selectifs or the cup. When it comes to these trials the rules go out the window for the decoys. They get away with a ton of shit that they would never be allowed to do in a regular trial. Why do you think Herve and Manolo are persona non grata in france right now? People see all these videos and assume that is all okay when the reality is that is far from the truth. Jimmy will tell you that himself. I had the chance to work with Marc Villain last fall and his definition of the work at each level and the differences between selectifs and other trials wasn't even remotely close to what you see here.
Think for yourself and do a little research before you follow the sheep people.


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## Chris Keister

Your speaking for him so if he doesn't say anything I will assume you are correct. If that's the case ok I get it. Blind following and one way thinking or doing is not good. I agree. 

As for ring you are correct there is differences between the level of trials. However if you get guys doing that kind of work here in the regionals or nationals, you get people crying about it. 

The judges instruct the decoys before each trial. They have the say in what is going to be allowed. 

I get what your saying and I agree.


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## Peter Cavallaro

i doubt agreement is what Tim seeks...lol


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## Jake Brandyberry

Im not speaking for Tim, just my interpretation of his comments. I could be completely wrong, though I am pretty sure I can read between the lines. I agree that regionals and nationals should be a little looser with the rules but the system is different here for qualifications for nationals so it is inevitable people are going to bitch. I have no problem with the work in the video as long as people understand the situation and that the work is not the norm.


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## Geoff Empey

In training that type work should be the norm. I always welcome that type of work it tests my teams training and shows holes that we need to work if the training isn't up to snuff. It's a very simple rock n roll training to counter that type of stick work. But many people see it and think they understand it but don't, then cry on how hard done by they were by the rulebook. Awwww, did the bad Mexican man hold off your dog off the bite for 10 seconds. :lol: People need to quit making excuses for their own training defaults for their dogs being inadequate when push becomes a shove. 

Train hard trial easy, sooner or later if you trial long enough and really test your dog your dog will see something that it has never seen before. So train for everything, show your dog everything. Outside arm bites to counter the stick, over the stick, under the stick, scoop counters, stick push counters balance the opposition with building confidence and you will build a lion not a pussy.


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## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> In training that type work should be the norm. I always welcome that type of work it tests my teams training and shows holes that we need to work if the training isn't up to snuff. It's a very simple rock n roll training to counter that type of stick work. But many people see it and think they understand it but don't, then cry on how hard done by they were by the rulebook. Awwww, did the bad Mexican man hold off your dog off the bite for 10 seconds. :lol: People need to quit making excuses for their own training defaults for their dogs being inadequate when push becomes a shove.
> 
> Train hard trial easy, sooner or later if you trial long enough and really test your dog your dog will see something that it has never seen before. So train for everything, show your dog everything. Outside arm bites to counter the stick, over the stick, under the stick, scoop counters, stick push counters balance the opposition with building confidence and you will build a lion not a pussy.


Geoff, Geoff come back down! You make me laugh!

Jake,,, I love you man but not in the same way as,,, ah forget it!


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## Timothy Stacy

Didn't the OP originally complain about Dosta walking into Vulcain on the object guard?
No matter how good someone is perceived to be, mistakes happen and if he stabbed my dog doing that I'd have a problem. I don't have a problem with the barrage at all!


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## Peter Cavallaro

Is all this lion building just reinforcing the proposition to the dog that no matter what it looks like u will not get hurt... ever? Just askin.


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## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Is all this lion building just reinforcing the proposition to the dog that no matter what it looks like u will not get hurt... ever? Just askin.


Yes, this is a doggy slam! Notice how she holds the grip! Lioness! Most think they are training lions but they aren't really!We show the unexpected!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEzTykhAx5s


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## Daniel Lybbert

I couldn't find the thread of that video. I cant remember what I said. I watched the video again of Vulcains basket. I didnt see anything wrong with the basket.
Geoff is on the right track. I train hard I want to see a decoy try that hard on my dogs. There was no brutallity in the face. It was just techincal. If the dog just bit the arm he would have been just fine.
Tim have you never broke a stick or had a dog bite the stick?


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## Timothy Stacy

Daniel Lybbert said:


> There was no brutallity in the face. It was just techincal. If the dog just bit the arm he would have been just fine.
> Tim have you never broke a stick or had a dog bite the stick?


Daniel, arguing with you is similar to arguing with a "fill in the blank"
You make things up like brutality to the face, like I said this video showed that? No I didn't! If you comprehended what I wrote, I was referencing how dangerous "a stick" can be! With that said i am comfortable saying this again and again, the stick barrage "on this particular video" was not the problem! It was the push/scoop with the stick hand! It is fine he is testing the dog but it is a rule in place for the safety of the dog and he broke the rule. Again, I have no problem with bending rules but not rules that compromise the dogs safety!
IMO, if he stayed within the rules the dog would have had him at the point where the infraction took place! I too believe in your original reason for posting the vid! The dog should have took the arm!


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## Geoff Empey

Timothy Stacy said:


> Geoff, Geoff come back down! You make me laugh!


It's ok ol' Timmy boy, nobody expects you to taste the whole rainbow all in one day.


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## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> It's ok ol' Timmy boy, nobody expects you to taste the whole rainbow all in one day.


Thanks for the invite to taste the rainbow Geoff but I don't swing that way :-\"


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## Benjamin Allanson

That video was hilarious tim! Had to watch it again. I think we should all post up our best face plants.


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## Timothy Stacy

Benjamin Allanson said:


> That video was hilarious tim! Had to watch it again. I think we should all post up our best face plants.


LOL let me unlock a private one of my friend!


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## Timothy Stacy

Alright here it is, limited time only!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU222gBjCt4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I like how the onlookers look so serious!


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## Peter Cavallaro

So Tim havin trouble following yr point, so you are or aren't OK with bending some rules?????

One more time to clarify yr stance.


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## Maren Bell Jones

*non-ring person raises their hand*

What's scooping? Thanks...


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## Connie Sutherland

Maren Bell Jones said:


> What's scooping? Thanks...


_" .... Within the bounds of safety and non-brutality, you should 
be able to make a valid attempt at an esquive, and if you are 
successful, you may try to execute a safe and legal, lateral 
deflection of the dog’s direction of travel with your arm— 
commonly referred to as a “scoop”—to allow you to gain 
additional no-bite time, thereby taking points from the dog. This 
is touchy business in a selection though, as these lateral 
deflections (“scoops”) can easily become illegal if the angle of 
the arm is wrong, the timing is off, if the dog’s head receives the 
impact of the deflection, or if the hand or stick pushes the dog 
by accident. To be sure you are fully aware of all of the 
pertinent points related to legal and illegal scooping, be 
sure to carefully review Section 4.3.1 of the NARA 
Rulebook." _quote from http://hammerhauskennel.com/resources/DecoySelection.pdf

http://www.ringsport.org/Documents/Rulebook2009.pdf
Scroll to 4.3, and also do a document word search for the word _scoop._


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## Maren Bell Jones

Thanks and cheers, Connie! :mrgreen:


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## Timothy Stacy

if the dog shows no hesitation when coming in to bite, the Decoy has the following options, depending on the adopted plan of defense
-either Unbar the entry at the last minute to avoid injuring the animal, while allowing the Dog the least possible hold (under no circumstance MAY THE DECOY USE HANDS OR BATON TO TOUCH a Dog who has NOT taken hold)

Pushing back with the arm is authorized in ring3 under the following conditions:
Pushing back with the arm(and without a baton or revolver in hand)!


IT IS PROHIBITED BY THE REGULATIONS AND WITH NO EXEPTIONS TO PUSH THE DOG BACK WITH AN ARM HOLDING A WEAPON OR THE BATON


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## Daniel Lybbert

I watched it again. I still just see the stick getting put in the way of the dog and the feet moving around the stick and arm. Not sure I would consider this a scoop.
this is a scoop.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icl9ZfD1q3o&list=FLAfTzrzRx_59TMwDV168Opw&index=25&feature=plpp_video


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## Timothy Stacy

V-Decoys Equipment
B) Baton
It is absolutely imperative for the decoy to avoid touching a dog with the Baton, while it is trying to bite, and for as long as it has not seized hold!
In addition, the decoy will Unbar the entry, if it is obvious that the dog is clearly oblivious to being threatened with the baton!


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## Timothy Stacy

The more I watch the less I see a barrage and the more I see him delibaretly pushing the dogs nose down into the dirt with the baton! Obvious????
Not even a barrage at that point!
I admit his timing is superb but it really destroys the rules in more ways than one! Just because he can? I was under the impression it was about the dogs capabilities and not a test to see what rules the decoy can break to keep the dog off the bite!


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## Geoff Empey

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Is all this lion building just reinforcing the proposition to the dog that no matter what it looks like u will not get hurt... ever? Just askin.


Short answer *Yes* ..


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## Geoff Empey

Timothy Stacy said:


> V-Decoys Equipment
> B) Baton
> It is absolutely imperative for the decoy to avoid touching a dog with the Baton, while it is trying to bite, and for as long as it has not seized hold!
> In addition, the decoy will Unbar the entry, if it is obvious that the dog is clearly oblivious to being threatened with the baton!


It is called pushing through the stick.


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## Peter Cavallaro

Cheers for response Geoff, without you thinking i'm starting anything would it be more appropriate to think of it as just plain old conditioning moreso than lion building?


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## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> It is called pushing through the stick.


Pushing the dogs nose in the dirt? You having trouble reading? Hahaha


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## Peter Cavallaro

No Tim thats pushing terra-firma with dogs face, duh.


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## Geoff Empey

Timothy Stacy said:


> The more I watch the less I see a barrage and the more I see him delibaretly pushing the dogs nose down into the dirt with the baton! Obvious????
> Not even a barrage at that point!
> I admit his timing is superb but it really destroys the rules in more ways than one! Just because he can? I was under the impression it was about the dogs capabilities and not a test to see what rules the decoy can break to keep the dog off the bite!


Do you swear out loud, clench your fist and shake it at the ceiling when you watch all his videos.  Am sure he will continue to decoy selectifs and other important trials while winning super selections in spite of your critiques.


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## Peter Cavallaro

Either way lions are the most ineffective and least successful even cowardly predators, they have nice manes. You peoples dont have animal planet?


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## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> Do you swear out loud, clench your fist and shake it at the ceiling when you watch all his videos.  Am sure he will continue to decoy selectifs and other important trials while winning super selections in spite of your critiques.


I think you clench your fist and pull your hair at my superior intelligence and my attention to detail!


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## Geoff Empey

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Cheers for response Geoff, without you thinking i'm starting anything would it be more appropriate to think of it as just plain old conditioning moreso than lion building?


It's old school conditioning really. In training the dog is shown the pressure and it gets balanced back and forth like a see saw. Lots of LE do the same type of training confidence so when the dogs get in a fight with a cracker head with a ice pick the dog doesn't care and goes in does its job in spite of the obvious danger. 

Many ruin young dogs by putting to much pressure early. We've all seen the videos of 3 month son/daughter of Xabada Metlof. Where they have the pup backed into a corner and they are laying the wood to it while it is gripping a puppy sleeve. While some are all impressed to see the young dog working through that pressure you rarely see video of that same dog at 2-3 years old. I wonder why? Because they broke the dog.


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## Geoff Empey

Timothy Stacy said:


> I think you clinch your fist and pull your hair at my superior intelligence and my attention to detail!


If your intelligence was superior you'd at least know how to spell C-L-E-N-C-H ... :lol:


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## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Either way lions are the most ineffective and least successful even cowardly predators, they have nice manes. You peoples dont have animal planet?


I bet this is what Geoff is talking about! Hahaha lion training hahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCfDiPIydZ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> If your intelligence was superior you'd at least know how to spell C-L-E-N-C-H ... :lol:


What are you talking about?


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## Peter Cavallaro

Well those A-holes need a good head kicking for being A-holes.

thats what will get yr sport banned.


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## Geoff Empey

Timothy Stacy said:


> What are you talking about?


It could be a gift from nature; a signalling method, to let us know that nature is trying to tell us something, that we fail to acknowledge. It could very well be a conflict between your concious and subconcious mind.


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## Geoff Empey

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Well those A-holes need a good head kicking for being A-holes.
> 
> thats what will get yr sport banned.


Which A-holes?


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## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> It could be a gift from nature; a signalling method, to let us know that nature is trying to tell us something, that we fail to acknowledge. It could very well be a conflict between your concious and subconcious mind.


Are you hitting on me?
Very uncomfortable feeling here! Stick to bears and avoid lions!
You were a bit thinner in 07 but you still had that chip on your shoulder!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjqCjt_fY24&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Peter Cavallaro

The dudes who beat the puppy till they broke it.

Haha, the lion guy had a pony tail, funny in light of recent comments.


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## Peter Cavallaro

Careful Tim dont rile Geoff, he will write a poem at ya.


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## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Careful Tim dont rile Geoff, he will write a poem at ya.


The following must be read with a lisp!
(So true Peter, so true! 
It's delightful having Geoff's exquisite poetry skills!)
I bet He's "clenching" more than his fist at the moment!


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## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Haha, the lion guy had a pony tail, funny in light of recent comments.


Yes, a pony is a necessary step in training animals!


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## Peter Cavallaro

Personally i'm cultivating the master guru bald on top pony tail hanging look.


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## Geoff Empey

Peter Cavallaro said:


> The dudes who beat the puppy till they broke it.


The most recent puppy beater video I've seen was a chick not a dude. Sad to say. Pretty funny that all her fanboy/girls will lick it up her propaganda and think how cool it is, but never see the stress the pup is under. 



Tim Stacy said:


> Are you hitting on me?
> Very uncomfortable feeling here! Stick to bears and avoid lions!
> You were a bit thinner in 07 but you still had that chip on your shoulder!


It's ok Tim your dirty little secret is safe with me! 



Peter Cavallaro said:


> Careful Tim dont rile Geoff, he will write a poem at ya.


Here Tim sits broken hearted
Tried to get a Brevet 
But his dog only Farted
Tim needs a Break 
The Dog eats the Steak
So Tim craps his pants 
and does the chicken dance

How is that Peter? :lol:


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## Geoff Empey

Timothy Stacy said:


> The following must be read with a lisp!
> (So true Peter, so true!
> It's delightful having Geoff's exquisite poetry skills!)
> I bet He's "clenching" more than his fist at the moment!


Chuckle chuckle ..


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## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Personally i'm cultivating the master guru bald on top pony tail hanging look.


Mullet? No, Skullet! Skillets in a pony give that hippy/ biker vib! Throw on some reading glasses and you are going places!


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## Timothy Stacy

Geoff Empey said:


> The most recent puppy beater video I've seen was a chick not a dude. Sad to say. Pretty funny that all her fanboy/girls will lick it up her propaganda and think how cool it is, but never see the stress the pup is under.
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok Tim your dirty little secret is safe with me!
> 
> 
> 
> Here Tim sits broken hearted
> Tried to get a Brevet
> But his dog only Farted
> Tim needs a Break
> The Dog eats the Steak
> So Tim craps his pants
> and does the chicken dance
> 
> How is that Peter? :lol:


You little ham! I thought I ran you!


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## Peter Cavallaro

I retract my statement if u were referring to females, I dont condone the caving in of womens skulls, guys OK.

Nice poem Geoff, thats my second from u. Trying to be gentle here, dont waste yr emotions on me man, i'm not worth it, just got no plans for the mans.


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## Timothy Stacy

Sunday night,
Geoff sits in tights!
Stroking his stubble 
While Timmy busts his big bubble!

He talks of lions
While I'm laughing and crying!
He types his shit
With two flabby tits!
Wow wow wow, don't slam those fist!

He try's to impress
While wearing a dress!
As I laugh it up!
He can't train a pup!

He can't see the scoop
Cause he's full of poop
He knows I am right
But try's with great might 
To fend off my bite

Stevie Wonder can see
That His arms in a C
So as you look for a fight
I just say good night!


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## Andy Sepulveda

Geoff Empey said:


> It's old school conditioning really. In training the dog is shown the pressure and it gets balanced back and forth like a see saw. Lots of LE do the same type of training confidence so when the dogs get in a fight with a cracker head with a ice pick the dog doesn't care and goes in does its job in spite of the obvious danger.
> 
> Many ruin young dogs by putting to much pressure early. *We've all seen the videos of 3 month son/daughter of Xabada Metlof. Where they have the pup backed into a corner and they are laying the wood to it while it is gripping a puppy sleeve*. While some are all impressed to see the young dog working through that pressure you rarely see video of that same dog at 2-3 years old. I wonder why? Because they broke the dog.


 
Can you post the video? I would like to see it


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## Chris Keister

Cute guys...../

Back to the original topic people can cry all they want to about the rules and the evil decoy who broke them. 

Simple fact of the matter is in ring they have judges. They have a dog in white for each level so the judge can critique and/or give instructions for how he would like a decoy to perform at said level. 

So no matter what anyone of us boo hoo about , if the decoy was consistently going to far in the eyes of the judges ; he wouldn't be decoying any more trials.


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## Geoff Empey

Andy Sepulveda said:


> Can you post the video? I would like to see it


They are all over youtube the particular one I was thinking about was on Facebook and has been since pulled down.


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## Timothy Stacy

Chris Keister said:


> Cute guys...../
> 
> Back to the original topic people can cry all they want to about the rules and the evil decoy who broke them.
> 
> Simple fact of the matter is in ring they have judges. They have a dog in white for each level so the judge can critique and/or give instructions for how he would like a decoy to perform at said level.
> 
> So no matter what anyone of us boo hoo about , if the decoy was consistently going to far in the eyes of the judges ; he wouldn't be decoying any more trials.


Yes, if a judge wants to ignore the fact that a rule is in place to protect the dog, yes that's his decision I guess. The rules state this matter very clearly and multiple times and in Bold face type as well! His timing is very good which makes it hard to see in real time so a judge who might be in his silver years may have a bit of trouble seeing this in real time.It's really not a matter of boo hoo and a matter of the rules stating you can't touch the dog with the stick hand. I'm again talking about the push/scoop where the stick goes under the belly of the dog. It's extremely dangerous for the dog and sorry if I care about a rule for the dogs safety. There is another rule about putting the stick under the dog as well! 
It was truly a work of art, just illegal in more ways than one!


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## Robert Palmer

If a dog can't take a paper cut in the heat of battle, I don't know what to say about that. 

Maybe a joke about French courage in combat. LOL


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## Timothy Stacy

Robert Palmer said:


> If a dog can't take a paper cut in the heat of battle, I don't know what to say about that.
> 
> Maybe a joke about French courage in combat. LOL


:grin:
They should all be scarred up like battle tested warriors!
The cuts from a stick are much worse than paper and I'd describe it more as a laceration!


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## Robert Palmer

I'm not saying they should be intentionally cut.

I'm saying everyone shouldn't worry about it. 

When I get a personal protection dog, I gaurantee he's not going to worry about all the "threats" which I see in these dog sports.

In KMPV, they intentionally break a stick on the dog. In France they pussy-foot around.

I think it says a lot about character.


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## Timothy Stacy

Robert Palmer said:


> I'm not saying they should be intentionally cut.
> 
> I'm saying everyone shouldn't worry about it.
> 
> When I get a personal protection dog, I gaurantee he's not going to worry about all the "threats" which I see in these dog sports.
> 
> In KMPV, they intentionally break a stick on the dog. In France they pussy-foot around.
> 
> I think it says a lot about character.


I thought someone suggested How "real" that video was, and how real FR is!


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## Peter Cavallaro

Robert Palmer said:


> I'm not saying they should be intentionally cut.
> 
> I'm saying everyone shouldn't worry about it.
> 
> When I get a personal protection dog, I gaurantee he's not going to worry about all the "threats" which I see in these dog sports.
> 
> In KMPV, they intentionally break a stick on the dog. In France they pussy-foot around.
> 
> I think it says a lot about character.



Oh my lord, here we go.


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## Timothy Stacy

Chris Keister said:


> Couple of observations
> 
> 4) some lack of commitment in the dog and indecision at one point as to which leg it was targeting.
> 
> 5) people who say ring is "just a game" and doesn't test the dog don't know what they are talking about.


Lack of commitment in the dog? Seriously? Stop watching the fancy footwork and watch the dog.
I watched again in real time and there were 3 pushes with the stick hand! Sad as he gets older And after a face bite and broken leg he has to resort to these blatant technical violations to fend off fully committed dogs!


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## Peter Cavallaro

If some big final was one line that you spent years training for and u lost because and official broke the rules would you be a happy camper, if money was also one the line? 

Really talking ANY sport here. I know of people that dont see the funny side of officials breaking rules and causing you to fail in competition.


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## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> If some big final was one line that you spent years training for and u lost because and official broke the rules would you be a happy camper, if money was also one the line?
> 
> Really talking ANY sport here. I know of people that dont see the funny side of officials breaking rules and causing you to fail in competition.


Peter, you got it!
What we have here is a decoy who peaked a few years ago and had some injuries and is trying to stay at the top by using any means necessary! Like putting metal in your boxing gloves, corking a bat, etc etc


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## Chris Keister

I'm gonna allow myself to be baited here.....

I used a poor choice of words when I said it was not a game. I was making a jab a those who downplay ring as a good test of a dogs character. Never said it was real. 

One observation I have been keeping to myself....

I think it's funny someone will bash others for "blindly following" some very good trainers, yet swing from the nuts of others when it benefits them in breeding to or buying a nice dog.


----------



## Daniel Lybbert

Tim your a wank. and you train your dog like shit. Therefore you should be scared of Fernando. He has not peaked. He never broke his leg either.He is still the best FR trial decoy in the world and aerguably the best training decoy also. He is also a good friend of mine. So shut the **** up mister ring 1. You talk so much shit its amazing.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter

Timothy Stacy said:


> What we have here is a decoy who peaked a few years ago and had some injuries and is trying to stay at the top by using any means necessary! Like putting metal in your boxing gloves, corking a bat, etc etc


Soooo....I take it you don't like Dosta? LOLOLOL Tell us how you really feel! #-o

Sometimes a lot of the details of decoy work are over my little blond head, but I can tell you from a safety perspective, I think I would feel safer having that guy work my dog than a lot of other decoys. Just from a speed/safety perspective I mean. Maybe I will get to find out how I feel about it first hand this summer.

Also on the subject of the op, I guess it would be nice to have a dog go high sometimes? Don't you think? I mean it IS something you have worked with your dog for that reason?


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Tim your a wank. and you train your dog like shit. Therefore you should be scared of Fernando. He has not peaked. He never broke his leg either.He is still the best FR trial decoy in the world and aerguably the best training decoy also. He is also a good friend of mine. So shut the **** up mister ring 1. You talk so much shit its amazing.


Ahahah a! A little sugar in the tank sweetie?
I heard about your training so I'd stop there! You should train with Ted E., he could teach you something LMAO!
Ok, maybe he didn't peak but I think you did after staring at his picture on your bedroom wall!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Soooo....I take it you don't like Dosta? LOLOLOL Tell us how you really feel! #-o
> 
> Sometimes a lot of the details of decoy work are over my little blond head, but I can tell you from a safety perspective, I think I would feel safer having that guy work my dog than a lot of other decoys. Just from a speed/safety perspective I mean.


He hurt my friends dog! Collapsed esophagus!


----------



## Jennifer Coulter

Timothy Stacy said:


> He hurt my friends dog! Collapsed esophagus!


With a stick? Collar?


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Jennifer Coulter said:


> With a stick? Collar?


Helicopter technique!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Chris Keister said:


> I think it's funny someone will bash others for "blindly following" some very good trainers, yet swing from the nuts of others when it benefits them in breeding to or buying a nice dog.


????
No comprende amigo
Elaborate


----------



## Chris Keister

No comprende? Really? You were gargling on Rick Rutt about a year ago big guy!

youtube.com/watch?v=zUJK5wIE4H8


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Yes, Rick had a lot of good advice! For breeding or buying dogs, I don't think that had anything to do with anything. Paid for the breeding like anyone else and I never bought a dog from him! By the way, I never swung from his nuts :grin:


----------



## Connie Sutherland

Timothy Stacy said:


> By the way, I never swung from his nuts :grin:



Now there's a statement I rarely read.


----------



## Chris Keister

Your a nut swinger when it benefits you Timmy!

Don't worry though all in fun.....


----------



## Chris Keister

To elaborate swinging from his nuts, pounding your chest, and giving the Tarzan call of the jungle. :lol:


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Connie Sutherland said:


> Now there's a statement I rarely read.


Well Connie, some people have trouble when dealing with the truth of the subject matter at hand and resort to hurtful comments  . It's avoidance behavior that usually comes after one has been beat fairly in a intellectual debate on subject matter dealing with a particular issue! Irrelevant in this argument but it happens to people who feel they are losing it, just as it happens to decoys who are losing it and turn to any means necessary to continue on while it slowly slips away!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Chris Keister said:


> Don't worry though all in fun.....


Always is! You just happened to take it up the "Keister" in this argument =D>


----------



## Chris Keister

Gee I never heard a Keister joke in my life...that's a first for me.

You are pretty intelligent and witty.... When your on your meds!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Chris Keister said:


> You are pretty intelligent and witty.... When your on your meds!


You're sharp as a bowling ball in a argument!
I didn't even have to take my shoes off to debate here!
Game, set , match!


----------



## Chris Keister

deleted by mod






ENOUGH!


----------



## maggie fraser

Chris Keister said:


> deleted by mod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ENOUGH!


 
Which Mod ?


----------



## Chris Keister

I was done


----------



## David Frost

maggie fraser said:


> Which Mod ?


Wasn't me. Usually, when a mod edits a post, it will show "last edited by" and then the mods name. That is unusual. Look at Maggie's post and you'll see what I mean.

DFrost


----------



## Connie Sutherland

David Frost said:


> Wasn't me. Usually, when a mod edits a post, it will show "last edited by" and then the mods name. That is unusual. Look at Maggie's post and you'll see what I mean.
> 
> DFrost


When it's edited immediately, apparently "last edited by" does not appear. :lol:

I edited it immediately.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Chris Keister said:


> I was done


Long before that, you just didn't know it! Much like a decoy who's best years are behind them!
Chalk another one up for me!


----------



## maggie fraser

Just keeping you on your toes !!! :-D


----------



## David Frost

Thank you Connie. I didn't know that. 

DFrost


----------



## Connie Sutherland

David Frost said:


> Thank you Connie. I didn't know that.
> 
> DFrost


I didn't either for a long time. Years. :lol:


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Well the judge did see it my way. The dog was awarded full points for the exercise due to illegal stick work \\/. This dog was in the selectiffs, what 3 times and Daniel,Chris and Geoff are gonna give training tips hahahaha ahahah!
Also just do you know, Fernando does well in the endurance/physical (blows other decoys away) and does well in written portion, but loses it in the technique portion, a lot has to do with his stick work!


----------



## Daniel Lybbert

Thanx for your all seeing powers oh god of Ring sport and dog training. your a dork


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Daniel Lybbert said:


> Thanx for your all seeing powers oh god of Ring sport and dog training. your a dork


Funny, all your boo hoo shit and you got called out but you would be the same person bitching when a guy teaches his dog to bite Dosta in the hand.

Being a dumbass and called out hurts huh! Read the rules before you post some dumbass video of your hero, DORK ahahah a
You claim to know French ring? Glad I don't train with you! You are a know it all who hangs on coat tails, it's freighting knowing that YOU think YOU KNOW!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Probably the most laughable post!
1. Really? C shape, WTF

2. This one does for sure!

3. If the footwork and speed were so phenomenal, why is breaking the rules necessary?

4.lack of commitment? Really? I don't think a dog gets to his level by lacking commitment but I'm sure you know better Chris!

5. You already stated you hit the stupid button on this one!

*“It is what we learn after we know it all that really counts”*




Chris Keister said:


> Couple of observations and opinions......
> 
> 1. Did not see a "scoop" but a continuous barrage and pushing with the stick hand. Dog was never really inside the arm and when it was, the arm was not really in a C shape.
> 
> 2) the top level decoys always bend and sometimes break the rules.
> 
> 3) phenominal footwork and speed.
> 
> 4) some lack of commitment in the dog and indecision at one point as to which leg it was targeting.
> 
> 5) people who say ring is "just a game" and doesn't test the dog don't know what they are talking about.
> 
> this is what I love about ring. Dog vs decoy and the decoys get a lot of leeway. No excuses when it comes to the training and the courage/commitment of the dog. If the judge didn't like it he would tell the decoy to knock it off.


----------



## Zakia Days

Geoff Empey said:


> In training that type work should be the norm. I always welcome that type of work it tests my teams training and shows holes that we need to work if the training isn't up to snuff. It's a very simple rock n roll training to counter that type of stick work. But many people see it and think they understand it but don't, then cry on how hard done by they were by the rulebook. Awwww, did the bad Mexican man hold off your dog off the bite for 10 seconds. :lol: People need to quit making excuses for their own training defaults for their dogs being inadequate when push becomes a shove.
> 
> Train hard trial easy, sooner or later if you trial long enough and really test your dog your dog will see something that it has never seen before. So train for everything, show your dog everything. Outside arm bites to counter the stick, over the stick, under the stick, scoop counters, stick push counters balance the opposition with building confidence and you will build a lion not a pussy.


YES, Geoff!! My thoughts exactly! "Train hard, trial easy." I don't mind a difficult trial either, as I get to dee where either my training or my dog is weak and either adapt and/or overcome. I think that is why many become concerned when they get a Dosta, or Mavunga, or Pugrenier(sp) on the field. They will either expose the "holes" in your training, the "holes" in your dog or both. And you have to be a top notch trainer w/ a top notch dog to do well when any of those top decoys are on the field. I like it. Keeps the game "honest (if you will)."


----------



## Zakia Days

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I watched it again. I still just see the stick getting put in the way of the dog and the feet moving around the stick and arm. Not sure I would consider this a scoop.
> this is a scoop.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icl9ZfD1q3o&list=FLAfTzrzRx_59TMwDV168Opw&index=25&feature=plpp_video


 
Now THAT...is a scoop:mrgreen::lol::twisted:!!!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

So let's say there's a championship boxing match.

And one boxer throws and LANDS an elbow.

The referee let's it because it's befitting of a championship bout to get out of the way and let competent fighters fight.

The crowd loves the fancy move too...because it's fancy.

Meanwhile the recipient of the elbow is out with a irreperable cut on the face; thinking to himself: "If I knew they were going to allow elbows, I would have trained for that possiblity."

Oh, there's a beautiful head butt! Very nice move!

If the dog's handler knew they were going to allow snout-pushing with the hard end of a stick, I imagine he might have prepared for that with greater diligence. Silly him WTF was HE thinking , he must not train lions


----------



## Tamara McIntosh

Timothy Stacy said:


> If the dog's handler knew they were going to allow snout-pushing with the hard end of a stick, I imagine he might have prepared for that with greater diligence. Silly him WTF was HE thinking , he must not train lions


Pretty much every ring trainer i know shows their dogs illegal moves during training so that the are prepared in case of accidents or whatever. It is not legal to step on a dogs feet but accidents happen in trials, decoys stumble, etc. so we train the dogs for it before hand. 

You can bet that dogs that get to the selectifs have trained thru every possible scenario, illegal or not, before hand. Its a hole in the training and i bet the next time that dog is training they will teach him to work thru it and he will beat the decoy at the next match up. 

That is the point of trialling. Test your dog and then train to better it, then test again.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Great, do you teach the doggy slam?
How bout the eye poke?
Blow sand in the eye technique?
Pile driver?
The jump in the air on the face attack?

It's illegal decoy work and the judge said so too Tamara! I'm glad to know that you'll be coming to events more well prepared than this dog who has many accomplishments! Can't wait to see what you come up with!


Tamara McIntosh said:


> Pretty much every ring trainer i know shows their dogs illegal moves during training so that the are prepared in case of accidents or whatever. It is not legal to step on a dogs feet but accidents happen in trials, decoys stumble, etc. so we train the dogs for it before hand.
> 
> You can bet that dogs that get to the selectifs have trained thru every possible scenario, illegal or not, before hand. Its a hole in the training and i bet the next time that dog is training they will teach him to work thru it and he will beat the decoy at the next match up.
> 
> That is the point of trialling. Test your dog and then train to better it, then test again.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

This thread is nutsoid, are there no standards anymore?

I guess Holleyfield should have shut his pissing and moaning when Tyson put the ear bite one him, Ah Evander shut yr hole, ya trained for that.

Hell if the UFC let the occasional eye poke and sack wack through I would get a truckload of hombres to contest the title, might end up with a hot wife like Chelsea and a fist full of cash.

I dont even know what a selectiff is, irrelevant. I guess it is something to do with people spending hundreds of hours of training for and expect the actual rules of the sport to be applied.....crazy.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> I dont even know what a selectiff is, irrelevant. I guess it is something to do with people spending hundreds of hours of training for and expect the actual rules of the sport to be applied.....crazy.


Let me share a PM

"You are beating your head against the wall with these people. As long as it didn't happen to them, it's ok. You can bet your bottom dollar if it was their dog they would be crying."

These people hear some guy from France say something and they play it back to everyone else! In there head they believe there training is elite!
I remember 3 years ago when someone here gave me some shit about a training video in which I was not following the "rules" of Ivan B's video The Game! He said how he don't do anything unless he does it perfect! Well after the video surfaced of his BH (it made me realize how bad some people's perception is of themselves, especially the ones that don't record and watch their training! ........


----------



## Bob Scott

Timothy Stacy said:


> So let's say there's a championship boxing match.
> 
> And one boxer throws and LANDS an elbow.
> 
> The referee let's it because it's befitting of a championship bout to get out of the way and let competent fighters fight.
> 
> The crowd loves the fancy move too...because it's fancy.
> 
> Meanwhile the recipient of the elbow is out with a irreperable cut on the face; thinking to himself: "If I knew they were going to allow elbows, I would have trained for that possiblity."
> 
> Oh, there's a beautiful head butt! Very nice move!
> 
> If the dog's handler knew they were going to allow snout-pushing with the hard end of a stick, I imagine he might have prepared for that with greater diligence. Silly him WTF was HE thinking , he must not train lions




Ali got away with holding opponents by the back of the head and pulling their head down in a clinch. The refs would warn him multiple times in a given match but I never saw him loose a point for it. Some can just get a way with that crap. ;-)


----------



## Robert Palmer

Until Mike Tyson had this melt-down, he put people down with clean punches without exception.

I guess Ali and this Dosta guy have a lot in common. OVER RATED and insecure.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Tyson's a pit bull, Ali is sport dog. Ali, is a great human being, Tyson is just super cool.

Dare I ask, who in theory would have won, both matched in their prime???


----------



## Robert Palmer

Honestly, Ali could have probably frustrated and tired-out Tyson. Frazier was mentally strong and had greater endurance. Those were his strengths against Ali.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Not sure if Ali ever dealt with the outright pure aggresion Mike bought, Foreman/ Frazier/Norton..........never had it, I dont think anyone did/has.

Noone ever saw anything like Mike before or since, I believe in his peak he was unbeatable outright.

I still gasp when I see his tapes.

Ali's best fights were outside the ring and on a different plane to us mortals.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Lots to learn about people from Ali.


----------



## Zakia Days

Guess you guys will be avoiding any Dosta, Mavunga, Pugrnier(sp), and any other decoys of the like, trials, then. If they're working the trial you have the right to b*tch out. Oops! I meant "withdraw." ROTFL


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Zakia Days said:


> Guess you guys will be avoiding any Dosta, Mavunga, Pugrnier(sp), and any other decoys of the like, trials, then. If they're working the trial you have the right to b*tch out. Oops! I meant "withdraw." ROTFL


No, I'm LMAO at your score on June 26th 2011!
47?
I think you prove my point perfectly here!
http://www.ringsport.org/2011_trial_results.htm

I have a good chance of running circles around you with my 6 month old hunting dog!
For fuk sake you have gull!
Is that your boyfriends score underneath, geezus!!!! Did your boyfriend "bitch out", I meant withdraw? Lmao


----------



## Robert Palmer

Zakia Days said:


> Guess you guys will be avoiding any Dosta, Mavunga, Pugrnier(sp), and any other decoys of the like, trials, then. If they're working the trial you have the right to b*tch out. Oops! I meant "withdraw." ROTFL


Let's go back to that boxing analogies. Do they throw clean and devestating punches? Or do they bite ears like this Dosta guy?

You know what that rule breaking is? Desperation. 

I'm sure this Dosta guy reads the hype about himself and figures he has to live up to it even as he gets older and slower. I don't envy his situation if this is typical of the kind of fans he has. Kinda painted himself into a corner.


----------



## Zakia Days

Wow ur feelings are easily hurt. Its okay, calm down. Yes thats my score. I know when my dog is ready to trial and when she is not. And that day she was not ready and I trialed her anyway. Unlike yourself, I don't trial w/ my butt clenched as tight as possible. To the point where you could a diamond from a stone, know what I mean? LOL We'd not been training, I messed around w/ a schutzhund club a bit, and I just wanted to see where we were and what was needed to work on. Trust me, I was LMAO right along w/ you. Still am. 

Forgive me for not purchasing a titled FRIII dog, for not attempting to title it and then not crying about a decoy cheating my dog. My bad. I'll go buy one so I can be on your page. I'll also make sure that he's seen all the decoy cheats in training, so I have no excuse when he sees it in trial. I'll get right on it, sir. Try not to take all these posts so seriously. No one else is. Its just a screen and a keyboard.


----------



## Robert Palmer

Tim, what's this about you trialing pre-trained dogs?

Kind of a cop-out. No offense.

I thought part of this was about building a partnership with a buddy and working hard...not just cleaning house with someone else's handiwork.

Good call, Zakia. Honesty is the best policy.


----------



## Robert Palmer

> Try not to take all these posts so seriously. No one else is.


Are you suuuuuuure? ::Tickle, tickle, tickle:::


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Robert Palmer said:


> Tim, what's this about you trialing pre-trained dogs?
> 
> Kind of a cop-out. No offense.
> 
> I thought part of this was about building a partnership with a buddy and working hard...not just cleaning house with someone else's handiwork.
> 
> Good call, Zakia. Honesty is the best policy.


No idea what she is talking about Robert! I never bought a trained dog!
Just as she doesnt know when to trial, she doesn't know when to keep her yapper shut!
Come on, everybody has failed a trial but a 47 out of 200?
Don't hold the record for the most failed Brevets as well or was that a club member of yours?


----------



## Robert Palmer

I have no idea what YOU are talking about now.

I don't have a dog (currently), a club (therefore no club members), or achieved a brevet title.

So, no and no.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Robert Palmer said:


> I have no idea what YOU are talking about now.
> 
> I don't have a dog (currently), a club (therefore no club members), or achieved a brevet title.
> 
> So, no and no.


Sorry, the question for failed Brevets was directed at Zakia!


----------



## Justin Gannon

Good decoy work for that trial. Dog just needed to take the arm. Isn't that what this thread is about. Dog is a leg chaser and has bad technique for upper body. But what do I know. Tim please post your scores and decoy resume, before you bash others.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> Good decoy work for that trial. Dog just needed to take the arm. Isn't that what this thread is about. Dog is a leg chaser and has bad technique for upper body. But what do I know. Tim please post your scores and decoy resume, before you bash others.


1 trial at ring 1 182! Minus 12 points handler errors!
So Justin?
Why did the judge award the dog full points?


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> Good decoy work for that trial. Dog just needed to take the arm. Isn't that what this thread is about. Dog is a leg chaser and has bad technique for upper body. But what do I know. Tim please post your scores and decoy resume, before you bash others.


You are a decoy obviously and it's sad to know that you don't know the rules either!


----------



## Justin Gannon

Wouldn't have been an issue If the dog had proper technique. Not saying its legal. But the thread was about why your dog needs to bite upper body. I would of done the Same thing. So when the decoy is working a dog and is spinning and lifts the dog off the ground. Is this legal? NO. But at that level it is accepted.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> Is this legal? NO. But at that level it is accepted.


Well not in the video at hand which "we are talking about"


----------



## Justin Gannon

I am sure the handler bitched and was given full points.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> But what do I know.


Not sure!


----------



## Justin Gannon

Nice scores by the way. You can see in the video as the dog returns the handler doesn't look happy when the dog returns. He had that look of " are you fing kidding me"!!!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> I am sure the handler bitched and was given full points.


So since you are "the decoy" and nobody else can comment on "rules " unless certified! What does it take to certify in NARA Justin? So we know exactly how elite one must be!


----------



## Justin Gannon

I am certified in Nara level 2and arf level 1. Never said I was a good decoy. Not sure I follow your question.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> I am certified in Nara level 2and arf level 1. Never said I was a good decoy. Not sure I follow your question.


Nice resume by the way! Are you s judge too?


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> Not sure I follow your question.


I find interesting that you come after me for someone who writes a comment like "bitching out" or withdrawing when she herself is more guilty of her own comment!
She prepares for "illegal" stuff but skips the standard things!

So the question is, where are you going with this Justin?


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> So when the decoy is working a dog and is spinning and lifts the dog off the ground. Is this legal? NO. But at that level it is accepted.


 There is a difference between voluntary and involuntary! Not sure where you are going here,,,, or there!


----------



## Don Turnipseed

So, why have rules if they aren't going to be followed? Maybe they are just there to give an air of legitimacy to the organization. I think what everyone is saying Timothy is that the rules mean nothing to people today....kinda like the constitution as of late. The only time anyone wants rules is if they can use em to their benefit. Got to get with the program Tim. :grin:


----------



## Justin Gannon

He never lifted his stick hand (like 99.9% of decoys) dog never committed. IT WAS NOT LEGAL. For the fourth time. Dog just sucked at technique.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Don Turnipseed said:


> The only time anyone wants rules is if they can use em to their benefit. Got to get with the program Tim. :grin:


Yes and if it is an advantage to the decoy whether or not it puts the dog at risk it's OK! I really love how the "decoys" say, the work is fine.......cause this other decoy told me so and I trained under him!
The decoys don't make the rules! The dog is the most important part here and at some time the handlers got together and made a few rules up to "try" and keep their dogs(who they love) safe in a already risky sport! That is, safe from some morons who want to play hero! Whom find their self image more important than the dog and rules!
I'm sure their have been judges that have let things slide which can have a snowball effect!


----------



## Justin Gannon

IT WAS ILLEGAL. Now the 5th time I have said this.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Justin Gannon said:


> IT WAS ILLEGAL. Now the 5th time I have said this.


I agree and I also agree the dog should have bit the arm


----------



## Justin Gannon

All good then. Hopefully see you at a trial sometime.


----------



## Daniel Lybbert

just dont wack his dog with a stick he might cry


----------



## Justin Gannon

I only hit the dog with the stick on the entry


----------



## Jason Davis

Nice work!


----------



## Justin Gannon

Jason how's aigle's girlfriend sniper? I hope you are doing good. Can't wait till November, should be a good time. Sniper and aigle need to watch out for my wife's dog diablo this year.. He turned out very nice. Hows florida treating you. And for the record I donot stick a dog on the entry. First I esquire them and then I stick them.


----------



## Robert Palmer

So strange how rule violations get not just winks-and-nods, but out-loud PROPS.

You'd think the OPPOSITE would be true. I would have thought people might have been saying: "Hmm...looks like ol' Fernando was having an off day. Oh well. But hey, at least the rules were enforced."

Instead: "Those particular rule violations are GREAT for that level of competition."

So it's the world series: "You gotta expect SOME guys to cork their bats A LITTLE BIT."

Wha-wha-WHAT?

Yeah, just a little bit. Nothing drastic. Just enough to give certain players an edge over others. It's good to spice things up at that level of competition...with cheating....and endangering pitchers. And it's called "bitching" when someone discovers it and tells the umpires.


----------



## Justin Gannon

The handler can always say something and object.


----------



## Robert Palmer

I'm just trying to keep it real, cuz.


----------



## James Downey

Justin Gannon said:


> The handler can always say something and object.


Seriously....The handler can object a judges "judgement" in ring?


----------



## Timothy Stacy

First Daniel you'll find some pics on here of my dog taking a barrage to the face! I just don't open my mouth wide for decoys, sorry!

Robert, a big problem is people like Daniel bringing decoys like Fernando in to train with. I believe its good for experienced people but not people still in the begining learning stage like Daniel! Another guy who doesn't "train dogs himself", but competes against the dog only and will use crafty techniques to cheat!He then fills Daniels head of great tails of how he did this and that and as you can picture, Daniel opens wide for chunky! Yes, Fernando has been around great dog trainers who "use" his decoy skills, not his training of dogs skills!
Remember these guys are professionals and tell Fernando to do this and do that and by the end of the day Dosta retreats to the decoy shack to sleep! When he comes to Daniel he is also the "dog trainer" and Daniel stares like a cult member at his glory stories! This happens with "trial decoys" often here in the USA! 
They believe these rules are true, Ferndando does it! 
Dosta must have fun corn noodling Daniel


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Robert, do you have any experience with killing a dog in training or have you ever heard of anybody killing a dog in training?

To add to the above post!
Roget Clemons was at a signing when I was young and I asked him to show me how to throw a curve ball. He told me I was too young to start trying and I'd learn when I became more experienced! Later on in life I wish he would have just told me to do steroids and the rest will follow!
Kind of like Dosta telling Daniel he will show him how to cheat when he gains experience! To late, Daniel has now awed over cheating on a slow motion video !


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

So a decoy can be paid by a trainer to tell them what illegal moves the decoy will make at an upcoming trial, the people that haven't paid the decoy will lack that knowledge and compete on an even playing field??

Evil.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

And how does one distinguish between a krafty bending of the rules to separate the 'lions' from the dawgs and just plain old incompetence.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

These are all good points and a reason ring sport is being swallowed by Schutzhund!


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Just askin man, dont have to be all up in my face about it......lol


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Just askin man, dont have to be all up in my face about it......lol


I'm not saying, I'm just saying!


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Oh, I get things


----------



## Jason Davis

Justin Gannon said:


> Jason how's aigle's girlfriend sniper? I hope you are doing good. Can't wait till November, should be a good time. Sniper and aigle need to watch out for my wife's dog diablo this year.. He turned out very nice. Hows florida treating you. And for the record I donot stick a dog on the entry. First I esquire them and then I stick them.


What's up buddy? Snickers is doing good. We look forward to coming out your way! I'm glad to hear the Mrs' pup is doing good! What level is he now? Hope he bites the arms;-) For the record, I dont even get in the suit. That stuff hurts to much.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Timothy Stacy said:


> Robert, do you have any experience with killing a dog in training or have you ever heard of anybody killing a dog in training?


Well Robert?


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Daniel Lybbert said:


> just dont wack his dog with a stick he might cry


Why you think this is tough and some measurement of your weiner size is beyond me! And if my dog happened to have a problem with a stick to the face, would that reflect on me Daniel? Just wondering what this means exactly! It's a very odd statement to throw out there!


----------



## Robert Palmer

To answer your question, I'll just say this...

My back yard as a BUNCH of old timey marble tombstones with typical dog names enggraved on them.

Make what you will of that.

Do I have regrets in life? 

Yes.

Have I learned from them?

Yes.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Back to the boxing analogy, paying to do pre-trial training with the trial decoy who will use illegal techniques in the trial is like paying a fighter to take a nap in the fifth round WTF??


----------



## Timothy Stacy

It's just sad Peter! This guy is judging ones manhood by his dog! Talk about lacking self confidence!
Yes, if you don't get in with the in crowd and train the illegal moves that the decoy presents, you might lose! Who knows what infraction next months decoy can come up with!
And to think this thread was almost dead and Zakia brought it Back to life!


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Get on email list of this months illegal moves, stop yr outsider moaning.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Get on email list of this months illegal moves, stop yr outsider moaning.


old school ear blows are out!
but I heard a gamer out in Tulsa is on the cutting edge of developing illegal techniques. Checking the oil was his first well known technique but he has since invented more streamline moves, Spine locks, the can opener, and Filipino pinching and biting techniques! If you get the chance, go see this cat!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Back to the boxing analogy, paying to do pre-trial training with the trial decoy who will use illegal techniques in the trial is like paying a fighter to take a nap in the fifth round WTF??


This is my homeboy from Chicago!You can get one of these French Ring sticks, also called a pocket stick from any decoy at the top of his game! The best decoys can't even get caught using it in slow motion footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7iQc-YOT_g

GOOOODDDDDD NIGHT


----------



## Zakia Days

Would you like for us to apoloize to you Tim, for trying to train and prep our dogs for the "bending" of some rules? Because we don't mind the "bending" of rules at a trial? At the trial you are referring to one thing occurred that sent the dog out of control. we weren't going to pass anyway, but I might have had a bit more control of the dog. This occurrence was against the rules in the NARA rule book. I didn't cry to the judge about it. The score is low because I decided to "b*tch out." Excuse me "withdraw" from the remaining exercises because I knew the dog was out of control and would not perform. Why stay? You sir, are free todo the same. Remove your dog from any trial that allows your least favorite decoy to work the dogs. You will not go to jail or do any time for it. Is it too much for you that some don't mind that kind of competition while others do? If you mind, don't participate. Register for trials with rule abiding decoys only and judges that have a rule book in their back pocket. Simple. We're sorry your feelings are so hurt by this.

"First Daniel you'll find some pics on here of my dog taking a barrage to the face! I just don't open my mouth wide for decoys, sorry!

Robert, a big problem is people like Daniel bringing decoys like Fernando in to train with. I believe its good for experienced people but not people still in the begining learning stage like Daniel! Another guy who doesn't "train dogs himself", but competes against the dog only and will use crafty techniques to cheat!He then fills Daniels head of great tails of how he did this and that and as you can picture, Daniel opens wide for chunky! Yes, Fernando has been around great dog trainers who "use" his decoy skills, not his training of dogs skills!
Remember these guys are professionals and tell Fernando to do this and do that and by the end of the day Dosta retreats to the decoy shack to sleep! When he comes to Daniel he is also the "dog trainer" and Daniel stares like a cult member at his glory stories! This happens with "trial decoys" often here in the USA! 
They believe these rules are true, Ferndando does it! 
Dosta must have fun corn noodling Daniel"


Look at you, so emotional. All kinds of exclaimation points and such. Ooooh, you're on fire. A cold shower might be in order here. I mean, wow! You are really upset over this. Is it REALLY that big a deal?


----------



## maggie fraser

I think largely, this thread reads to me as what is referred to as sports all having their vices, the higher up you go.. the greater the vice. I think it is shocking to be complacent and accepting of rule bending and violation,, never mind the actual promotion of it...the sport can have no integrity if that is the mindset. Pretty distasteful!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

maggie fraser said:


> I think largely, this thread reads to me as what is referred to as sports all having their vices, the higher up you go.. the greater the vice. I think it is shocking to be complacent and accepting of rule bending and violation,, never mind the actual promotion of it...the sport can have no integrity if that is the mindset. Pretty distasteful!


It's good to hear some intelligent people are reading this and getting the meat potatoes out of it! Remember Maggie, these people like this guy and buy his plane tickets, so biasm is also at work here! Also a good portion are decoys who are ok with cheating even though it can become extremely dangerous! NARA has a history of rule blunders and now you see some members outwardly showing that disregard for rules even though this judge followed them correctly! Absolutely mind blowing that one would put the judges desicion of the decoys 6 rule violations on the handler, WTF!


----------



## manny rose

Been reading tbis thread and wow.....i agree rules are made to be followed. But also in any human sport rules get bent and small things overlooked. That said if you trial your dog and decoy does illegal moves to prevent your dog from biting....i personally would be upset at myself and training! Thats just me i am competitve by nature and like to be prepared, so i wpuld feel like i let my dog down by not showing him those pictures in training, knowing some of the top decoys make it tougher. But you buddy have been going on and on for i guess days crying about it? Train hard and compeye. I dont train ring but in any sport sometimes some decoys are harder and slicker than others....some judges let some shit slide happens in anything that people are involved with! WE ARE HUMANS...shit happens. Its your type of whining that creates the pussification.(learned that saying here lol) of any sport people such as yourself compete in! Seriously..im willing to bet top level competitors dont cry too much brcause they are out there over training their dog for thing that may happen and those that may not. The person usually crying is a struggling competitor who dont knw he picked a trial with better experienced decoys who may pull out some tricks. Most COMPETITORS like the challenge! Now for the record i dont mean judges overlooking safety issues and blatent breaking of rules but......best way i can say it is, no matter what bitesport the yearly championship or national event sets things up a little more difficult and calls in their best, fastest, hardest and most experienced decoys. Now i dont know how that a national event is more difficult than a regular club trial....but i guess if you train shitty and dont prepare for what some of the best have to offer your dog, or just dont have access to good decoys. You would propably in for a rough day. Now you go on and on about this and you are a novice competitor with an entry level tittle? Some input was given by those with more experience and your still whining.......hey you know what to do.....leave nara and start your own ringsport! Lol


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## Timothy Stacy

So you are saying its ok when it's ok but it's not ok if it's not ok and while it's a rule you follow rules but you are ok with rule breaking them for the sake of competition!
Way to give your opinion even though I think you really never gave one! What exactly do you compete in Manny? I'm guessing your friends with somebody here!
I also competed in SCh and in SCH the rules are pretty much the rules!


manny rose said:


> Been reading tbis thread and wow.....i agree rules are made to be followed. But also in any human sport rules get bent and small things overlooked. That said if you trial your dog and decoy does illegal moves to prevent your dog from biting....i personally would be upset at myself and training! Thats just me i am competitve by nature and like to be prepared, so i wpuld feel like i let my dog down by not showing him those pictures in training, knowing some of the top decoys make it tougher. But you buddy have been going on and on for i guess days crying about it? Train hard and compeye. I dont train ring but in any sport sometimes some decoys are harder and slicker than others....some judges let some shit slide happens in anything that people are involved with! WE ARE HUMANS...shit happens. Its your type of whining that creates the pussification.(learned that saying here lol) of any sport people such as yourself compete in! Seriously..im willing to bet top level competitors dont cry too much brcause they are out there over training their dog for thing that may happen and those that may not. The person usually crying is a struggling competitor who dont knw he picked a trial with better experienced decoys who may pull out some tricks. Most COMPETITORS like the challenge! Now for the record i dont mean judges overlooking safety issues and blatent breaking of rules but......best way i can say it is, no matter what bitesport the yearly championship or national event sets things up a little more difficult and calls in their best, fastest, hardest and most experienced decoys. Now i dont know how that a national event is more difficult than a regular club trial....but i guess if you train shitty and dont prepare for what some of the best have to offer your dog, or just dont have access to good decoys. You would propably in for a rough day. Now you go on and on about this and you are a novice competitor with an entry level tittle? Some input was given by those with more experience and your still whining.......hey you know what to do.....leave nara and start your own ringsport! Lol


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## Timothy Stacy

Manny, wanna play poker at my house?
On the third hand my 2,6,7,9,10 of differnt suits beats anything, on the fourth hand I'll let you know what wins! I'm just bending the rules!
6 violations in 15 seconds!


----------



## manny rose

Listen buddy i know absolutely NO ONE on this board! Trust me. Seriously Tim i dont care too much but you like to argue about it. You train dogs and you cant comprehend my point! REALLY! Short version= train like you want to compete a the higher levels in your sport and if dog,handler and trainer are up to par you should have fairly decent success in anything. Train for what the rule book says and also train for what you see in trials and on video. If everyone cried about everythiing we would have no dog sports or just Sch.lol Im guessing if you had more success in ring you woul not complain so much. Justwhat im getting being that you are driving this to the ground. I would train my dog to take an arm when that picture is givin and then hope the training paidof for the trial! If it didnt, id pat the sneaky decoy on the back and tell him i got his ass and then train the shit out of those scenerios..your making it sound like he really ****ed the dog up or some one up! Thats why people train for the expected, unexpected! Funny thing is you are propably the same typethat says dogsports are watering down.....and then do your best to cry and water down the sport you play in. Wasnt you the same guy who was over in knvp land with all the real dogs. Just sayin thats the mind set these days. Ask them if in knvp they are a little rough on the dogs and if in trial things dont always look like ballet...its a bite dog sport! Then you come off like you trial with penny loafers on over here! Lol i just wanted to say my part, and i am glad many others did not feel the work was bad but more of a challenge in training and on the dog. Maybe there is hope for bitesports in america! But imagine if there were thousands of competitors like you....it would be A LOOONG TRIAL.lol Thats all folks!


----------



## manny rose

Timothy Stacy said:


> Manny, wanna play poker at my house?
> On the third hand my 2,6,7,9,10 of differnt suits beats anything, on the fourth hand I'll let you know what wins! I'm just bending the rules!
> 6 violations in 15 seconds!


All set buddy.....have a good day. I really already used up all the typing i have in me for today! Honest to God no sarcasim, good luck in training and trialing. Just train hard and stop crying. This dog stuff is fun for me and always will be. Have that attitude and it easier.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

manny rose;33071Now for the record i dont mean judges overlooking safety issues and blatent breaking of rules [/QUOTE said:


> =;
> Why even post!


----------



## Robert Palmer

>>>Register for trials with rule abiding decoys only 

I can't believe *good-faith mistakes* are being included with wanton rule breaking. 

Good faith mistakes are worth preparing for. Could happen to anyone. That's a finite list of things. Decoys could fall down etc etc, right? 

Preparing for the possiblity that someone is going to intentionally circumvent the rules? Why even bother? The possibilities are limited only by imagination. 

Honest to god, are you even listening to yourself? You just called Dosta a rule-breaking decoy. LOL.

I can't wait to get involved in this!!


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## Robert Palmer

Manny,

"Shit happens" is forgivable. Accidental bean-balls are forgivable.

What's pathetic is romanticizing intentionally thrown screwballs. That's what happens when a pitcher gets tired, or he's pissed off.

Batters don't practice getting beaned...at all. What's the point? It's supposed to be a fluke thing, and the umpire deals with it accordingly.

Not in this sport, though. It's cute to throw a heater at someone's elbow, I guess....._at the higher levels._

To emphasize...yeah...I'll take a pass on someone throwing pitches at me. I'll wait for a rule-abiding pitcher. I guess I'm a little bitch like that. It's not MY snout going for a bunch of sharp bamboo. Who cares?


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## Robert Palmer

I got ahead of myself. I didn't mean to imply that this was a sport-wide thing.

I'm sure the vast majority of decoys actually give a darn about rules and dog welfare, regardless of the level.

It sounds like this Dosta guy just can't stand to think someone got the best of him, even if it means having points re-instated for his shady antics. In his mind, at least the tape will show that he got a dog to "screw up".

If you can't make your bones training your own dog, why not go make your bones fncking-up someone else's? Makes sense. Kinda like the OWS movement. haha.


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## manny rose

Robert Palmer said:


> Manny,
> 
> "Shit happens" is forgivable. Accidental bean-balls are forgivable.
> 
> What's pathetic is romanticizing intentionally thrown screwballs. That's what happens when a pitcher gets tired, or he's pissed off.
> 
> Batters don't practice getting beaned...at all. What's the point? It's supposed to be a fluke thing, and the umpire deals with it accordingly.
> 
> Not in this sport, though. It's cute to throw a heater at someone's elbow, I guess....._at the higher levels._
> To emphasize...yeah...I'll take a pass on someone throwing pitches at me. I'll wait for a rule-abiding pitcher. I guess I'm a little bitch like that. It's not MY snout going for a bunch of sharp bamboo. Who cares?


Im only going to type again because you dont understand too well what im saying......plus lets talk about subject hand....dont watch baseball. I read back in this thread the dog got full points because of the decoy work, i agree with that. I also agree dog should be taught to take the arm if leg isnt possible upon entry. Im keeping this simple so there is no lack of understanding....i also beleive crying about it for many days and causing a stink over the www over a mistake where the dog got back the points is the whiny type mindset that waters down bitesports. No one got hurt and im guessing,(i dont train ring) if he had used non stick hand that it would have been legal? And to use your analogy.....if a pitcher keeps hitting batters time again, i would assume him not to be a profesional caliber player...and others i would think would not let him play. Think about it. Doing things like that consistintly would not be tolerated. But this guy Dosta is decoying big events right? Maybe now you understand me if not......:arrow:


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## Ryan Venables

I find it funny to note that all these generalizations have been made of Dosta over one video. If there are more, feel free to educate me.

I'm pretty new to ring, hell I had to even look at the rules to educate myself as to what you guys were talking about w/ respect to scoops etc. I've trained w/ some of the people here who have posted and while you guys are discussing the illegality of any said move, in the end, rightly or wrongly I think many people prepare their dogs accordingly. Do they train to expect illegal moves? No. Are the dogs trained to adapt in the necessary situation? Yes. Should that dog have taken the arm? Yes. Did it matter in the long run? No, dog got full points.

Obviously w/ this dog being a Selectif dog, it probably has seen it all in training... or at least I think it should have (if it was my dog I would have made sure it knew what to do). But hey, if I'm not mistaken it was a GSD right? So can't blame it for being simple minded... (JOKES)

In the end, this has gone way past with what Daniel (GREAT guy btw...) wanted to point out, and has degenerated into nitpicking. Just saying...


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## Timothy Stacy

Ryan Venables said:


> Do they train to expect illegal moves? No. Are the dogs trained to adapt in the necessary situation? Yes. Should that dog have taken the arm? Yes. Did it matter in the long run? No, dog got full points.


I think I have said this in 100 different ways! In my first two posts as well!
Daniel was looking to dazzle the audience with his friends "best face attack ever"!


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## Robert Palmer

I've been waiting for a reasonable explanation. Such as: "If you're going to go right up to the limit of the rules in the big events, it stands to reason a decoy would take it too far at times."

See, I could buy THAT. 

Instead, all his BFFs are firmly maintaining he fully _intended _to do every bit of that, and what's more, it's totally cool.

Not generalizing at all. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I have to believe Dosta's personal friends here when they say it was all skillful and intentional rule breaking. What other evidence do I have?


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## Hans Akerbakk

The thread had promise I was expecting to see some links to better face attacks or some training tips as to how people train to counter arms , something useful.
All there is bullshit and Dosta Demons in my closet.
I did watch Hagler- Hearns fight and a couple of Tyson knock outs .


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## Peter Cavallaro

So Hans, tyson or ali?


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## Hans Akerbakk

Long fight Ali split decision.
Short fight then Ali would be knocked out.


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## Peter Cavallaro

Hans Akerbakk said:


> Long fight Ali split decision.
> Short fight then Ali would be knocked out.


Hmm


----------



## James Downey

Ali's whole career was dismantling big punchers, liston, norton, frasier, foreman. There has not been a heavy weight tactical boxer with his power since Ali. Tyson, would not have the experience fighting thinking heavy weights. I think Ali systematically slowly picks apart tyson stops him in the later rounds....shit if buster douglas could do it. Ali, sure as hell could do it. dont give me that shit, that Tyson was distracted by what's her name. Buster was a chump, Ali got chemicals put in his eyes by liston and Ali still whooped that ass. If you watch Tysons rise, while he was knocking people out...his rise was largely uncontested by any fighter, His opponets were chumps. Ali, on the other hand survived and dominated the greatest stretch of heavy weight boxing of all time. Ali had a hard climb to the top, and once there he had monsters trying to take it from him. 

No way Tyson beats Ali.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Dear James, grab the tapes and remote and watch Tyson again and again, pre-rape era.

the error in yr lack of thinking will become self-evident.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Hans Akerbakk said:


> The thread had promise I was expecting to see some links to better face attacks or some training tips as to how people train to counter arms , something useful.
> All there is bullshit and Dosta Demons in my closet.
> I did watch Hagler- Hearns fight and a couple of Tyson knock outs .


You are right! I failed and I will remedy the situation by showing a video of a more technical decoy! Notice the non holding stick hand is doing the scoops! I really wish Dosta would let this guy be his mentor
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8ynrc_gr1-1er-selectif-rogeville-2009-esq_sport


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## Peter Cavallaro

Tim whats with u and these weird video file formats, get with the herd buddy.


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## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Tim whats with u and these weird video file formats, get with the herd buddy.


might be cause of this apple computer! let me switch!


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Let the microsoft evil flow through you.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

The devil is out! same link though!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8ynrc_gr1-1er-selectif-rogeville-2009-esq_sport


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## Daniel Lybbert

I think Botaro is a amazing decoy. But he had the stick on the dogs head for the entry and 8 steps after that. How dare he break a rule in the selectiff. That is so dirty and nasty. His decoy book should be shreadded.


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## Peter Cavallaro

Fuggit, something about upgrading to adobe flash which then says not available on mobile.


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## Timothy Stacy

Also notice in this video how he actually works the dog after the bite! Not sure what Dosta is doing!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8yodx_gr1-1er-selectif-rogeville-2009-fac_sport


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## Timothy Stacy

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I think Botaro is a amazing decoy. But he had the stick on the dogs head for the entry and 8 steps after that. How dare he break a rule in the selectiff. That is so dirty and nasty. His decoy book should be shreadded.


We mentioned how sometimes human error can happen but with Dosta its just stupidity and terrible lazy technique! This s probably one of those instance where a judge can make a call on the bigger picture of the work! Daniel If you have any other questions, feel free to ask that's how we learn!


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## Peter Cavallaro

.....the royal 'we' .............hahaha


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> .....the royal 'we' .............hahaha


I have an Olympic committee backing me up here!


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Timothy Stacy said:


> . I don't have a problem with the barrage at all!


I remember you stating this but as we're dealing with Daniels obliviousness to illegal and dangerous part of the work this began to get brought up as well! After the fourth infraction I think it's time to say WTF is this Dosta thinking!


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## Hans Akerbakk

I saw 3 shots to the side of the head ,one on entry two to help the scoop and a punch with the base of the stick trying to turn the dog into a ostritch.
This guys hit when he fell is more brutal then Dosta's
This is in France , not a club trial.
Check the next video on the list Ulko and this decoy .
Ulko came in second at the coupe in 2009 amazing for a German .
I was a helper at a trial with Dosta and he never watched the decoy before him work the dog.
Pretty sporting not using what the first decoy may have exposed.


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## Hans Akerbakk

I tried to put a link to Herve Jacopit le puy 1999 , didn't work file might be to big .
but you can use the search on the daily motion site and get there.
Shows his highlites from both days hard work and less infractions working 26 dogs .


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## Timothy Stacy

Yes, Dosta is lazy and needs to work on his technique!


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## manny rose

Timothy Stacy said:


> Yes, Dosta is lazy and needs to work on his technique!


R u still crying! Lololololololol. Trust me i wont post any more on your topics, but you need to put this much effort into training your dog , and getting some actual tittles on it before you keep bashing somone with some noteworthy accpmplishments. Just saying. Your post usually sound intelligent but your character is shining through....oh i forget you said he hurt your buddies dog! Get over it...i just hate a whiny ANYTHING..woman, dog, and most of all a man! Thats truly why i posted! You seem to b arguing against people who compete in ring at the levels you desire to....but you keep whining. Unbelievable! Im sure we will see you competing at a high level one day:-({|=


----------



## Timothy Stacy

manny rose said:


> R u still crying! Lololololololol. Trust me i wont post any more on your topics, but you need to put this much effort into training your dog , and getting some actual tittles on it before you keep bashing somone with some noteworthy accpmplishments. Just saying. Your post usually sound intelligent but your character is shining through....oh i forget you said he hurt your buddies dog! Get over it...i just hate a whiny ANYTHING..woman, dog, and most of all a man! Thats truly why i posted! You seem to b arguing against people who compete in ring at the levels you desire to....but you keep whining. Unbelievable! Im sure we will see you competing at a high level one day:-({|=


Manny what titles do you have?
I said I have a SCH 2 at home and ring1 who I have no plans of titling either any further! With that said, let's see some videos of your training, I have a feeling I'm gonna see shit! Whining vs arguing on facts! Obviously you are not very intelligent ! Come on let's see the videos Manny or your credibility is done!


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## Timothy Stacy

Manny??? Have you ever trialed a dog?
Lololololololol
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahaha
Snort
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Timothy Stacy

manny rose said:


> Get over it...i just hate a whiny ANYTHING..woman, dog, and most of all a man! Thats truly why i posted! :-({|=


What are you gonna do about it?
You know very little about dogs and I wonder why you even log in here? Maybe your looking for friends. You know there are websites dedicated to losers like you!
Here you go 

http://www.friendship.com.au/findafriend/


----------



## Hans Akerbakk

And right back into the shitter this thread goes.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Hans Akerbakk said:


> And right back into the shitter this thread goes.


Let's review,

Boy post video 
I say the dog should have took the arm, however the decoy work was very illegal. Illegal in the sense that it broke rules that are intended to keep the dog safe!

A few people "with experience" come on and say no the work is legal and there is some back and fourth!

Come to find out the judge awarded the dog full points due to the illegal work! The OP, a board member for CRA doesn't know right from wrong! Sad!

Girl comes on and parrots how trainers should train for every possibility! I state that she trains so hard for the unknown that she can't even pass the regular stuff at level 1!

Manny, a victim of the stupid gene comes on to tàlk about my acomplishments which have nothing to do with this! The funniest part being that Manny is a zero!

I guess everybody should just go with the flow and never think for themselves!


----------



## Chris Keister

Hans Akerbakk said:


> I tried to put a link to Herve Jacopit le puy 1999 , didn't work file might be to big .
> but you can use the search on the daily motion site and get there.
> Shows his highlites from both days hard work and less infractions working 26 dogs .


Thanks for posting this. I have been looking for these videos but didn't know the decoys name. Best decoy work I've ever seen.


----------



## Maren Bell Jones

I'm not a ring person so this doesn't really affect me in the slightest, but is Fernando a member here? Though I prefer sticking to the rules, it just seems kind of odd that he's getting skewered but is not here to defend himself. Perhaps he can give some insight?


----------



## Robert Palmer

deleted post


----------



## Zakia Days

manny rose said:


> R u still crying! Lololololololol. Trust me i wont post any more on your topics, but you need to put this much effort into training your dog , and getting some actual tittles on it before you keep bashing somone with some noteworthy accpmplishments. Just saying. Your post usually sound intelligent but your character is shining through....oh i forget you said he hurt your buddies dog! Get over it...i just hate a whiny ANYTHING..woman, dog, and most of all a man! Thats truly why i posted! You seem to b arguing against people who compete in ring at the levels you desire to....but you keep whining. Unbelievable! Im sure we will see you competing at a high level one day:-({|=


Dude,

Its obvious to everyone on this thread that he has a hard on for Dosta. I think he wants to join the Dosta fan club. No other decoys name has been uttered from his keyboard lips:lol::lol::lol::grin:!!!!!


----------



## Robert Palmer

Probably because there are no other decoys are both admired as much, but are also such huge f***-ups.

Usually admiration is a product of skill and prowess.

This is a product of someone who has fast feet and is a nice guy.

Nobody is blaming anyone for liking the guy personally.


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## Timothy Stacy

deleted post


----------



## Robert Palmer

But I saw a leerburg video where the narrator said you he's the nicest and most polite guy ever. He's also an extremely safe decoy.

http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php?id=266


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## Timothy Stacy

post deleted


----------



## Robert Palmer

post deleted


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## Timothy Stacy

post deleted


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## Ryan Venables

I'll ask my original question (and I don't know Dosta at all...) again.

Are we just basing this off of one video?

If so, this is a pretty big generalization... and like Maren suggested he's not here defending himself, and some of it is bordering on (if not) defamation.


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## Timothy Stacy

Ryan Venables said:


> I'll ask my original question (and I don't know Dosta at all...) again.
> 
> Are we just basing this off of one video?
> 
> defamation.


No, not off one video but also off some details from super selections!

Defamation? Where?
Is that the way you try to intimidate somebody like myself!


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## Ryan Venables

Timothy Stacy said:


> No, not off one video but also off some details from super selections!
> 
> Defamation? Where?
> Is that the way you try to intimidate somebody like myself!


Super selections... fair enough. I'm familiar w/ Dosta, but not the way he decoys specifically.

As for intimidation, I did not turn my mind to attempting to intimidate somebody online, let alone in a different country. But I find it humourous that you piped up. My comment was made in general (more so for the benefit of the mods), and it wasn't one of your posts that caught my eye. You've shown, quite obviously, your resilience to continue to post regardless of what others say (rightly or wrongly).

Anyway... carry on.


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## Hans Akerbakk

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I'm not a ring person so this doesn't really affect me in the slightest, but is Fernando a member here? Though I prefer sticking to the rules, it just seems kind of odd that he's getting skewered but is not here to defend himself. Perhaps he can give some insight?


There is people with lots of training experience who never post .
Trying to explain how something is done in writing takes a lot of effort, Then you get to deal with people like Tim , so why bother.
Back in line 8,9 of this thread Tim says , Dosta is older ,had a broken leg and he peaked a few years ago. Daniel is Dosta's friend and says he has never broken his leg.
The video shown is a 2009 selectif jury A. 
It's 2012 and Dosta is in France doing the selectifs jury C .
Ulko scored 357.148 in Jury A ,against Dosta.
369.55 jury B against Bottaro the other decoy and 366.3 jury C .
So did Ulko get full points on his face attack on Dosta , I call bullshit till I see proof .
It looks likeTim likes to twist the truth at least where Dosta is concerned.
Anyway Ulko came in second at the Coupe. www.sports-canins.net


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## Timothy Stacy

Chuckle chuckle Hans, take a breather! :-({|=


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## Timothy Stacy

Hans Akerbakk said:


> So did Ulko get full points on his face attack on Dosta , I call bullshit till I see proof .
> It looks likeTim likes to twist the truth at least where Dosta is concerned.
> Anyway Ulko came in second at the Coupe. www.sports-canins.net


The burden of proof is on you Hans! Now go fourth....because I say so!


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## Hans Akerbakk

Credibility is gained with out embellishment.:---)


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## Timothy Stacy

Oh yeah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9my1tAzLK8g&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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