# PPD training cost for adult dog



## Donna DeYoung

I've contacted several trainers in my area about types of PP training available for my 4 yr old male GSD. 
I'm a single female, no kids, private property, live alone on farm in country and am interested in owning a PPD. Have a GSD that may make a good candidate.

What are the typical costs/situations that a reputable PPD trainer would charge? One trainer will evaluate my dog for $40 and I don't have costs on PP training - but he is a reputable person who has put many titles on dogs and has trained for someone I know. Primarily does DVG but also PP. Could also work with their wife/trainer w/ my female GSD on schutz/agility and OB.

Another trainer said $1000 for training 2x a week at a club and possibly take 6 mo to a year. $500 down and $500 when dog does home invasion test. Trains for sport and PP.

Another trainer said free evaluation, $2500 30 day min. for a month in-kennel/training plus $500 per week after.Former police experience/trainer. also offers OB and other training private lessons for $75/hr.

So I'm just curious what the expectations should be. I'm more likely to start out w/ Ob and work at a club and take some private lessons until I made sure I wanted the dog in a kennel/training situation and how does one ck references?
thanks,
D


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## Chris Michalek

what makes you think you're dog is a good candidate?

Have you seen the Glock line of PPD? I guarantee it will work better and longer than any German Shepherd you might own.

BTW- twice that money and two months of training isn't going to get you a PPD. You know that right? Unless you like screwed up dogs that can't stand people.


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## Harry Keely

Go find a reputable group doing PPD or find a sporting group / PPD group. Those prices are retarded. You shouldn't pay more than $500 for a club for a year that meets 2-3 at least a week.


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## Donna DeYoung

he has already bitten someone? haha. you can't hear yourself think if someone comes in the house (as in repair man). he is fine w/ small dogs and furry critters but has strong prey/toy drive. i can control him. he's very attentive to me. just amateur observations as I admit I know nothing. he is german working lines.

I'm going to have him evaluated and then will let you know.
No, I don't want to own a gun. 

the $500 was for PP training within the club?
D


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## Donna DeYoung

no, i don't know how much it will cost. but i know most people selling PPDs wont' talk to you unless you have at least 10K. 
I dont' want a screwed up dog.


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## mike suttle

Chris Michalek said:


> what makes you think you're dog is a good candidate?
> 
> Have you seen the Glock line of PPD? I guarantee it will work better and longer than any German Shepherd you might own.
> 
> BTW- twice that money and two months of training isn't going to get you a PPD. You know that right? Unless you like screwed up dogs that can't stand people.


 I think a Springfield XD would be the perfect protector for this type of situation. Available in 9mm, .40, or .45 cal


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## Chris Michalek

Donna DeYoung said:


> he has already bitten someone? haha.
> D



That's not a good sign at all.

Seriously, you want a dog that will protect you but you're not willing to own a gun? The best home defense system is a small yappy dog, a large dog and a Mossberg 590

what are your plans after your personal protection dog gets shot and they are coming for you?


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## jack van strien

Do not send your dog away for training,it is toooo xpensive and you will not know what they are doing to your dog .You do train your own horses i guess.
When do you need your ppd?If he is away for training he will not be able to alert you.
Imo if your dog makes a lot of noise when someone comes around all you have to do is get another one ,the two of them will scare of anyone .


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## Chris Michalek

Donna,

why do you think they all want you to leave the dog?


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## chris haynie

if someone isn't deterred by a large GSD barking they will probably just shoot him, PPD trained or not. then you'll be thinking "i wish i had bought guns and learned to use them"


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## Donna DeYoung

"Seriously, you want a dog that will protect you but you're not willing to own a gun? The best home defense system is a small yappy dog, a large dog and a Mossberg 590"

I have a yappy dog, an alert dobie, and 2 large dogs that make enough noise to deafen your ear drums.

Seriously. Yes. I want a protection dog but I don't want a gun. A gun could be used against me, but no one can make my dog kill me? ah yes I know dogs are not the end all of protection. more a deterrant and something that makes you feel better they are around. that way I can sleep at nite.

yes, I train my own horses, very well, thank you. have ridden/trained patrol horses and take all my horses to police/type training.


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## Carol Boche

Donna DeYoung said:


> I have a yappy dog, an alert dobie, and 2 large dogs that make enough noise to deafen your ear drums.


This is enough to ward off 90% of people that are intending any kind of criminal activity. 
The other 10% that are intent on doing what they are going to do will dispatch the dogs, and then come at you. 

Not meant to be negative towards you in any way, but it is reality. 

Also, no PPD training on a dog that nails someone and you can pull the "I didn't know he would bite" card and your insurance will be at least willing to deal with you. 

Have you looked into what your agent would say if you have a trained PPD, what the rates would be and what would happen if they found out you failed to mention you trained your dog to bite? 
Liability is really high. 

As a gun owner, I can honestly say that my dogs make me feel safe, and if someone is intent on getting to me to do any kind of harm, I am not waiting to see if my dogs will bite them or if they will kill my dogs.


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## Carol Boche

Some of the stuff in this one is hilarious...but some is pretty good
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/#experts

I am sure you could get an umbrella type policy that will help you for an additional cost to your existing insurance.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Carol Boche said:


> This is enough to ward off 90% of people that are intending any kind of criminal activity.
> The other 10% that are intent on doing what they are going to do will dispatch the dogs, and then come at you.
> 
> Not meant to be negative towards you in any way, but it is reality.
> 
> Also, no PPD training on a dog that nails someone and you can pull the "I didn't know he would bite" card and your insurance will be at least willing to deal with you.
> 
> Have you looked into what your agent would say if you have a trained PPD, what the rates would be and what would happen if they found out you failed to mention you trained your dog to bite?
> Liability is really high.
> 
> As a gun owner, I can honestly say that my dogs make me feel safe, and if someone is intent on getting to me to do any kind of harm, I am not waiting to see if my dogs will bite them or if they will kill my dogs.


I don't live in a crime area here. I don't even know a insurance agent. I am not sure anyone even understands liability. I never saw a lawsuit here. Just in case anyone has any stupid ideas I work my own dogs in prey with a sleeve once in a while on the main road in town next to the local gathering hole. Everyone in town knows they will bite. A different culture from what we are accustomed to in the US.


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## Carol Boche

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I don't live in a crime area here. I don't even know a insurance agent. I am not sure anyone even understands liability. I never saw a lawsuit here. Just in case anyone has any stupid ideas I work my own dogs in prey with a sleeve once in a while on the main road in town next to the local gathering hole. Everyone in town knows they will bite. A different culture from what we are accustomed to in the US.


Absolutely...I called our insurance guy a few minutes ago and the conversation went like this: 

ME: "Hi Mike, Carol Boche here"

MIKE: "Hi Carol, how ya doing?"

ME: "GREAT!! Gotta question for ya?" 

MIKE: "Okay, I got an answer"

ME: "I am going to train a Personal Protection Dog?" 

MIKE: "a WHAT?!!"

ME: "You know, a dog that is trained to attack people that show aggression towards me?" 

MIKE: "Well, for one, I hope your not serious and for two, don't expect me to help you get this covered." <nervous chuckle> "Really? Why?" 

ME: "No not really....but just wanted to see what your reaction would be to a dog that is trained for this." 

MIKE: "You owe me lunch when I am there Friday....need to go do some research on that. It is hard enough insuring the kennel part for what you want it insured for, let alone a dog that is going to be trained for that." 

Our insurance agent is a GREAT guy and he insures not only our personal stuff and my kennels, but the entire contracting company as well, so he knows his stuff. The reaction I got pretty much told me that it was going to be a nightmare. 

THIS is for a single dog in a home and NOT a training facility.


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## Donna DeYoung

I think this got off on another issue. Cost vs WHY the *#$*$& do you want one?

Anyone looking into PPDs should know the liabilities and issues. Certainly helpful for newbies. but I've looked into the issues and started that years ago. most homeowner policies won't cover you.

Now actually wondering HOW MUCH IT COSTS (the dog training). Any dog training? I know how much horse training costs. I don't know the typical rates for dog training. Altho I'm sure it's a heck of alot more than what it used to cost 20 years ago!

Take for example a well-balanced, family-raised german line GSD w/ titled parents, good drive and natural protection capabilities. Basic obedience and a handler that is intelligent, has well-behaved dogs, and is a good pack leader. and what do most trainers want for their time? hrly or by the month...

D


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## Lee H Sternberg

Carol - If I was able to locate a insurance agent here where I live I know he would tell me WTF are you talking about.

I don't know of anyone that has any type house insurance and auto liability is included in govt. registration. All other car insurance is too expensive to consider. I had a quote of $400 per month for car theft (which is a national pass time) and collision. I bring a dog and park where I can see the car if I go to high crime areas which is much of the country. I also have dual alarms. One is a GPS locater.


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## Donna DeYoung

and what about dog laws? I live in Texas, in an unincorporated county area. no county ordinances. no city requirements.

Good old Texas law says:

(f) The court *may not order the dog destroyed* if the court finds that the dog caused the serious bodily injury to a person by attacking, biting, or mauling the person and:
(1) *the dog was being used for the protection of a person or person's property*, the attack, bite, or mauling occurred in an enclosure in which the dog was being kept, and:
(A) the enclosure was reasonably certain to prevent the dog from leaving the enclosure on its own and *provided notice of the presence of a dog*; and
(B) the injured person was at least eight years of age, and was trespassing in the enclosure when the attack, bite, or mauling occurred;


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## Chris Michalek

Donna DeYoung said:


> I think this got off on another issue. Cost vs WHY the *#$*$& do you want one?
> 
> Anyone looking into PPDs should know the liabilities and issues. Certainly helpful for newbies. but I've looked into the issues and started that years ago. most homeowner policies won't cover you.
> 
> Now actually wondering HOW MUCH IT COSTS (the dog training). Any dog training? I know how much horse training costs. I don't know the typical rates for dog training. Altho I'm sure it's a heck of alot more than what it used to cost 20 years ago!
> 
> Take for example a well-balanced, family-raised german line GSD w/ titled parents, good drive and natural protection capabilities. Basic obedience and a handler that is intelligent, has well-behaved dogs, and is a good pack leader. and what do most trainers want for their time? hrly or by the month...
> 
> D


It costs what you are willing to pay for it. The prices you were quoted were given because they know you don't know anything. 

You can't just send a dog away and expect him to be fully trained for life, you have to maintain the training. Most of us here work our dogs 2-4+ times per week within a club setting. You need to be part of a club and even then the dog may do nothing. 

I had a break in a few months ago, we were home and have six dogs, NONE of them barked until it was too late. Two dogs are bite trained, the rott has had a lot of civil work with suits and hidden sleeves. The Mal is constantly itching to bite at any opportunity and yet NONE of them acted. Now had I caught this person, I likely would have sent the dogs and then grabbed my gun.

You don't have a gun so what are you going to do? 

Get in a club and/or get at gun but whatever you do, don't waste your time and money by sending the dog away for a month for personal protection training.


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## Carol Boche

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Carol - If I was able to locate a insurance agent here where I live I know he would tell me WTF are you talking about.
> 
> I don't know of anyone that has any type house insurance and auto liability is included in govt. registration. All other car insurance is too expensive to consider. I had a quote of $400 per month for car theft (which is a national pass time) and collision. I bring a dog and park where I can see the car if I go to high crime areas. I also have dual alarms. One is a GPS locater.


Not directed at you or anyone Lee....this thread got me curious to see what he would do. 

I just agreed that it would be different where you are at.....if not better, to own a dog that will bite....(trained or not...saying this for arguments sake.....)


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## Jeff Oehlsen

How much does dog training cost ?? That is a good question. I know many many trainers that are around the same skill level as a trainer in petsmart, and petsmart gets about a hundred bucks for 6 sessions I think.

I am not joking here. Most dogs trainers are at that skill level, or a little better.


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## Ben Thompson

Why does it seem like nobody on a personal protection dog forum wants anyone getting a personal protection dog? Guns get stolen you can't just leave them out in the house and it takes too long to open a gun safe. A dog can react a lot quicker.....you need both dog and gun.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

This is a working dog forum, not a PP dog forum....per se.

I don't care if she gets the dog trained PP style or not. She can spend a butt load of money, or not. I do think that she needs to see what someone elses dogs can do. THat is where the discussion needs to go. Sad it went a different way.


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## Joby Becker

Carol Boche said:


> This is enough to ward off 90% of people that are intending any kind of criminal activity.
> The other 10% that are intent on doing what they are going to do will dispatch the dogs, and then come at you.
> 
> Not meant to be negative towards you in any way, but it is reality.
> 
> Also, no PPD training on a dog that nails someone and you can pull the "I didn't know he would bite" card and your insurance will be at least willing to deal with you.
> 
> *Have you looked into what your agent would say if you have a trained PPD,* *what the rates would be and what would happen if they found out you failed to mention you trained your dog to bite?*
> Liability is really high.
> 
> As a gun owner, I can honestly say that my dogs make me feel safe, and if someone is intent on getting to me to do any kind of harm, I am not waiting to see if my dogs will bite them or if they will kill my dogs.


Tried to stay out of this one but couldn't...

Carol this logic does not hold with me. (not picking on ya)
This would be the case for anyone on this board that does bitework with their dog..period..no matter if you call it PP or sport or whatever....

PP=dog bites man in sleeve or suit
Sport=dog bites man in sleeve or suit

A biting dog is a biting dog......period.

There are plenty of sport titled dogs that want to take a piece out of someone, equipment or no equipment. No matter the sport. Plenty of sport dogs also serve the function of protection, just not called PP dogs. Almost every person with a SCH dog that I talk to is pretty sure in their mind that their dog would bite someone that breaks in their house, or at least think the chances are high that they would. The ringsport, and PSA guys too. I imagine most of the sda, IPO, appda and k9ps people (and whoever else)think so to.

Sorry just doesn't fit for me...telling your agent you do ANY type of bitework would be like telling him you get drunk a lot and pass out all the time with lit cigarettes burning..but only in the bed...

Can you imagine telling your insurance guy. "Yeah I train my dogs to bite, yes they bite a man in training but don't worry, its not for protection...

They just bite the guys arm with a sleeve on it, or they just bite the guy in the legs, or shoulders or biceps, but they only bite if the guy is wearing a suit, they are not trained for protection though, so don't worry I know they won't bite a person outside of training or competing..."

You might tell your agent you do bitework if he was your buddy, but he sure as hell ain't gonna put it in the paperwork, if something did happen, it would be HIS ass on the line... 

Excluding policies for dog businesses, breeders, LE or club grounds that should have specific liability insurance, I doubt any people on here call their homeowners insurance agent and tell them about their dogs bite work training. How many could honestly say they know there dogs wouldn't bite anyone under any circumstances off the field?

*(person calls his agent)* Hey Phil hows it going?

*(agent)* Not too bad...Whats up? how are your dogs? Don't you own malinois, and a rottweiler ???

*(person)* Yep, cool that you remembered, actually I took them to training today...we have been training to compete in (insert sport here)

*(agent)* Oh really? how did it go?

*(person)* went ok, coulda been better though, the mal was being an asshole today, he was real dirty in the blind, kept biting the decoy when he wasn't supposed to, but we're working on it..the pushy bastard..

*(agent)* oh yeah? it happens keep working on it...

*(person)* and the rottie's outs were for shit, but hey, it's been 3 weeks since he got to bite anyone and the decoy was pressuring him a lot today, only 2 dirty bites after he finally started outing..so who can blame him.

*(agent)* yeah your right, who can blame him...

*(person)* The best part of the day was at the end of the day when the mal actually performed 4 out of the 5 call-offs we did without any type of corrections... the rottie did 3 out of the 5.

*(agent)* wow that's great, that is almost 75%....anyone else you train with want some coverage? In fact, I'm gonna lower your rates, sounds like the training is coming along...

Kinda like telling your car insurance guy that you love to speed and drive reckless all the time, "just wanted to tell you, I know I don't have any claims for accidents or tickets...but I'm an honest guy and thought you should know anyway..."

And you can bet your ass if someone with a sport titled or trained dog has a dog that bites someone, 99 times out of 100 they are gonna use the same old "I didn't know he would bite" card as well. IF THEY WERE SMART.

Dog laws are so variable...In some places, "beware of dog" signs protect you more, others its a nail in the coffin. 

I can bet in most all cases, if a jury finds out about *any* type of bite work training (sport or PP) and your dog bit someone it wasn't supposed to, or even some one it was supposed to..it isn't helping you much in regards to a lawsuit...even if you disclosed it to your agent like an idiot.

Just my opinion of the logic being used here, not knocking any sport or PP in this post.

Most people say yes I have dogs, if the agent asks...
then they tell them the breeds, if asked....
Divulging that alone can get your rates raised with most insurance companies.


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## Carol Boche

I agree with you....I was posting based off of discussions I have had in the past....

A dog that bites is just that......a person that sues you due to a dog bite and then it comes out in court that you trained the dog to bite, will most likely get ugly. 

People never assume that the person provoked the bite (and I am NOT talking people who know this kind of work), they always jump to the dog first.....

For me....big, forward barks and a Glock, Sig or Kimber and I am good!!


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## Amy Swaby

Carol Boche said:


> I agree with you....I was posting based off of discussions I have had in the past....
> 
> A dog that bites is just that......a person that sues you due to a dog bite and then it comes out in court that you trained the dog to bite, will most likely get ugly.
> 
> People never assume that the person provoked the bite (and I am NOT talking people who know this kind of work), they always jump to the dog first.....
> 
> For me....big, forward barks and a Glock, Sig or Kimber and I am good!!


I'm sure glad I don't live in a country where the bad guy gets to sue me. PERIOD if you come onto my property unsolicited and you get bitten they have no grounds. God bless stupid laws huh?


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## Chris Michalek

Amy Swaby said:


> I'm sure glad I don't live in a country where the bad guy gets to sue me. PERIOD if you come onto my property unsolicited and you get bitten they have no grounds. God bless stupid laws huh?



HUH? I thought you lived in the US? Dogs have fewer rights than bad guys.


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## Howard Gaines III

*The Best Home Defense...*a stout easten block woman with and iron pan and "Love" in her eye! 
And if she has 7 brats tired to the apron...even better. Models on lease for $19.95...no refunds for marriage contracts. LOL


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## Howard Gaines III

Like Carol, I like my Glock and my Rock...
Guns get stolen? Take my dog...please! :twisted:


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## Lee H Sternberg

Chris Michalek said:


> HUH? I thought you lived in the US? Dogs have fewer rights than bad guys.


Chris, that's Haiti that some idiots think we want to take over not the Bahamas! :lol:


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## Amy Swaby

Chris Michalek said:


> HUH? I thought you lived in the US? Dogs have fewer rights than bad guys.


Nope -points to location- My country born and bred is the Bahamas, I'm working on a green card but technically I still live in The Bahamas. At any rate when when I move to Savannah the kennels will still be in Nassau. Savannah is just my playground.


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## Mike Lauer

to get back to the original poster

*I think* no one answered your cost question because there is no answer
you can pay $40 a month for a club or $35,000 to buy a dog to start
both of those prices exist right now in this country
depends on who you have near you

think of dog training like karate
just cause your kid took a year of karate doesn't mean 5 years later he can protect you or himself
training should be a life of the dog thing
life of a dog can get awful expensive, but at least its spread out over time

personally I carry gun to protect my dog, trained or not I would hate for her to get hurt
dirtbags i dont care so much about


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## kim guidry

Howard Gaines III said:


> *The Best Home Defense...*a stout easten block woman with and iron pan and "Love" in her eye!
> And if she has 7 brats tired to the apron...even better. Models on lease for $19.95...no refunds for marriage contracts. LOL


Howard, don't forget about the strategically placed christmas lights on the porch!:-\"


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## Howard Gaines III

kim guidry said:


> Howard, don't forget about the strategically placed christmas lights on the porch!:-\"


 Hey Kim! The cost of training in Delaware....cheap. We include lots of snow. See for yourself this weekend when we get hammered!


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## Dan Long

Howard Gaines III said:


> Hey Kim! The cost of training in Delaware....cheap. We include lots of snow. See for yourself this weekend when we get hammered!


Just more environmental diversity for the dogs!


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## Janette Oglesby

I like your choice of PPdevice Mike.


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