# Switching Adults to Raw



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Hey all. I have two 70 lb. GSD's, Greta who is 10 and Jake who is 8. They currently get 3 cups of Solid Gold per day, one cup in the morning and two in the evening. 

I want to switch them to raw food, but perhaps not completely, at least not at first. My thought is to continue to give them one cup of Solid Gold in the morning and then raw in the evening. 

What do you think of doing it this way? Also, how much raw meat should they each get? 

Thanks!

P.S. I'm been driving like a Sunday school teacher in the church parking lot!


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## Natalie Heath (Apr 18, 2008)

When I made the switch, I did a kibble meal in the morning and a raw meal in the evening until my bag of kibble ran out and then they got raw from then on. Sparky was 9 when I made the switch. The other two were 5 and 2. 



> Also, how much raw meat should they each get?


The amount of raw fed is typically 2-4% of body weight depending on activity levels, so 1-2% of their body weight for one meal a day.

You will be including bones and not just muscle meat, right? 

Natalie


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

What I did (and still do) is feed about 85% raw and 15% commercial canned (Evo 95% line and Solid Gold green tripe especially). That may go over a bit better digestively is to feed a raw meal and then a canned meal (or together is fine too). It will also help cover your bases variety wise (using just one protein source is not a good idea...the strength of a raw diet lies in its variety).

One thing with adults is that they may gulp and you may have to teach them to chew a bit. This is done best with a turkey wing or something similar and you hold it for them while they gnaw.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

If you were switching from good food to crap food it might help to ease into it, I doubt you'd have any problems going from kibble to a good raw diet.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don't forget that RMBs are crucial.... the calcium in kibble doesn't "cover" the missing calcium in a muscle-meat-only raw meal.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Patrick Murray said:


> They currently get 3 cups of Solid Gold per day, one cup in the morning and two in the evening. My thought is to continue to give them one cup of Solid Gold in the morning and then raw in the evening. ... how much raw meat should they each get?


If you give half of the kibble requirement, then you could give half of the fresh requirement. (2 to 3% of the adult dog weight is average for the full day's requirement.)


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks all!


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

A few years ago we moved our then 11 year old GSD/Golden mix to raw. We didn't do any transition- one day kibble, the next day raw. She lived a couple more years but those couple years were far better quality than if we'd have kept her on kibble. 

Just to show it WILL make a difference even on an older dog, here's a before and after shot of her:

Before raw- tufts of hair falling out, bad breath, lick sores/hot spots, stinky fur.









After 3 months on raw- completely different looking dog- leaner, beautiful coat that no longer sheds or smells, no more lick sores or hot spots. That is not silver hair on her- thats the sun gleaming off of her coat.


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## Mike Talkington (May 13, 2008)

I switched by fasting from the kibble for a day and went totaly raw from there. At first I split my meals in half. Connie was a super help for me, she always answered my questions and sincerley wants to help you out. She doesnt know it but I look to her as a mentor on the subject 


> Just to show it WILL make a difference even on an older dog


My retired dog "Bam" I switched to raw 11/2 years ago and I honestly feel that by doing so I have added some time with him.
Anyhow good luck!
Mike


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

The hardest part of feeding RAW is the thinking you do up until you make the leap and go for it. After that you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.


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## Melissa Blazak (Apr 14, 2008)

When I switched Max he was around 8-9. I first started by doing the veggie mash with organic apple cider vinegar and natural yoghurt with live cultures. I did this for about a month with his kibble meals. He was already eating Wellness. He never had a problem with the switch. I don't really know if it helped or not, he had been used to human food since he was about 4 or 5 months old (although nothing raw).


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## Kris Dow (Jun 15, 2008)

I know this is a bit of an old thread, but I want to get my dogs eating at least SOME RMBs for the dental benefits. (Once I've gotten them eating one, I'll consider switching the whole diet! Atm they get Solid Gold Barking at the Moon plus quality table scraps.)

The trouble is they seem kind of confused by the whole idea of having to actually GNAW. Chester, my recent addition mutt, seemed to at least get the hang of chewing meat off the bone after a bit, but Foxy, the cocker spaniel, just sits and looks at the thing like it's some kind of alien creature. The perplexing thing is that Foxy does like gnawing on things (those smoked pig bone thingies are a favorite which I will be happy to abandon because who knows what the heck is in them?) and she's quite happy to eat extremely rare meat, but apparently when you put gnawing and meat together it's a deal-breaker.

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas? (I quickly seared the outside to make it smell more familiar and more meaty.) I was offering beef rib bones in case it makes a difference. (I found a good deal on them.) Would chicken hunks maybe seem less intimidating to start?


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> The hardest part of feeding RAW is the thinking you do up until you make the leap and go for it. After that you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.


Ain't that the truth!

I fed RAW and kibbe on and off. Usually I don't transition, one day it's kibble the next it's RAW. I run out of RAW, they get kibble until I can buy more. It's not a big deal and the dogs like me keeping them on their toes.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kris Dow said:


> Anyone have any suggestions or ideas? (I quickly seared the outside to make it smell more familiar and more meaty.)




Are you talking about recreational bones? I ask that because of some terms like gnawing and searing, and chewing meat "off the bone." Chicken backs, for example, don't involve gnawing unless it's a tiny dog, and you'd never sear (or cook in any way) raw edible bones.

I'm not a personal fan of recreational bones, as natural as they are, just because I've seen Tufts bills for crowns on my granddog. But lots of people give them and lots of dogs do great with them. Sounds like yours are the kind who do great, and who don't try to "get that damned bone OPEN" with their molars.

BUT I would never cook bones, even searing. Cooked bones (or, in fact, even bones allowed to hang around and dry out) get brittle and shard-y.

If you mean real edible bones, you have the wrong animal parts for that. You'd want poultry or rabbits or lamb flaps, etc., that are eaten, not gnawed at. Those bones too will do a lot for the teeth, with both the friction and the enzymes they contain.

Mine get no recreational bones and still have actually all stopped accumulating plaque and even reversed accumulation from prior homes (slowly) on RMBs.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Kris Dow said:


> Anyone have any suggestions or ideas? (I quickly seared the outside to make it smell more familiar and more meaty.) I was offering beef rib bones in case it makes a difference. (I found a good deal on them.) Would chicken hunks maybe seem less intimidating to start?


IMO, beef ribs are for those dogs who understand that some bones aren't meant to be eaten. OK as a recreational bone for a puppy, not OK for an adult who may want to chew open and eat the bone. Beef ribs tend to be pretty tough. I give them as a treat, and only to those that aren't likely to try cracking them.

I'd go with softer, edible bones - chicken backs/necks/ribs/keel, lamb, pork necks. Chicken is probably easiest to start with since you can cut it up to make he first few meals mostly meat, and work in the meaty bones later, when the dog figures out it's good food.


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## Kris Dow (Jun 15, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Are you talking about recreational bones? I ask that because of some terms like gnawing and searing, and chewing meat "off the bone." Chicken backs, for example, don't involve gnawing unless it's a tiny dog, and you'd never sear (or cook in any way) raw edible bones.
> 
> I'm not a personal fan of recreational bones, as natural as they are, just because I've seen Tufts bills for crowns on my granddog. But lots of people give them and lots of dogs do great with them. Sounds like yours are the kind who do great, and who don't try to "get that damned bone OPEN" with their molars.
> 
> ...


Ahh, I picked the beef ribs because they were a good price and the chicken parts available all seemed too small for the larger dog- he has a tendency to eat very quickly and I didn't want to get anything he might not chew up enough. I think I'll get a whole chicken next time and cut it up a bit- a leg+thigh seems like it'd be the right size for our cocker to start out with (she's a dainty eater so I have no worry she'd try to swallow it whole) and then Chester (~70lb rottweiler mix) can have the rest of the chicken as one piece. Does that sound reasonable?

I was told by someone who feeds raw that it's okay to quickly sear when introducing RMBs if the dog doesn't seem to realize that it's food in the fully raw state. Is there a better trick?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kris Dow said:


> I was told by someone who feeds raw that it's okay to quickly sear when introducing RMBs if the dog doesn't seem to realize that it's food in the fully raw state. Is there a better trick?


That's OK for meat or organ meat -- not for bones. Not IMO, anyway.

And yes, when I have had recently-adopted seniors who were suspicious about this new stuff, I have had instant success with ground poultry. I guess the texture might be part of the suspicion, because ground seems to be just fine. (It's available everywhere -- both turkey breast meat and thigh meat.)

Then once that introduces the taste, the texture thing seems to be over.

I do know one club member who lightly seared part of the ground thigh meat and part not, and the previously-suspicious dog plowed through it all with great enthusiasm.

This is not a drawn-out deal, IME. Once the dog gets it that it's a new feeling but that it's actually meat, it's pretty fast.


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## Kris Dow (Jun 15, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> That's OK for meat or organ meat -- not for bones. Not IMO, anyway.
> 
> This is not a drawn-out deal, IME. Once the dog gets it that it's a new feeling but that it's actually meat, it's pretty fast.


Yes, I think Chester has the idea- he might be marginally suspicious of new types of meat, but all in all he's pretty trusting of what we offer him for a dog who has only been with us for 5 days, so I'll see how he does tomorrow with a decent sized hunk of chicken if the weather is good enough for us to hang out outside while he eats. (I know you can train the dog to eat over a towel or something indoors to avoid mess, but I figure to get him used to the idea of eating RMBs first and then work on eating neatly.)

He certainly didn't take long to get used to the idea of getting the meat off the rib bones.  (I kind of 'primed' a few bits of it by cutting it almost off so he'd have some pieces which were easy to get off and taste.  )


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I had three terriers when I switched to raw. The oldest was 12 at the time and he didn't eat the first day. Two days without eating was all it took. I always scaled my dog's teeth twice a year. When I started the raw I did two dogs and left the third for a control test. Within 6 months his teeth had cleaned up and he started acting like a pup again. I didn't clean another set of teeth after that. 
Being retired now with two GSDs and one terrier I don't do raw anymore because of cost. 
If I could I would. 
BTW, each terrier got one whole leg quarter and never had a problem.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I always scaled my dog's teeth twice a year.


I'm actually reading that scaling teeth your own dog's teeth is not a good idea for a couple reasons. There was an article in the Whole Dog Journal about this in this month's issue, but basically it can make little tiny grooves in the enamel where bacteria can build up. When your teeth or your dog's teeth is scaled by a dentist, they polish them afterwards to prevent this. Another issue is I guess you can't really get below the gumline with an at home scaling.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Interesting! I've scaled all my dog's teeth for the past 30 + yrs. Never had any problems. My GSDs haven't needed it though. They do a heavy flossing on jute sleeves 3 times a week. My JRT is just about due now. 8-[


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

And on a similar note, I asked my bacteriology professor about prophylactic antibiotics after a routine dental cleaning. He is pretty cool as even though he's pretty old, he knows about the benefits of probiotics and encourages us not to overdo it on steroids and systemic antibiotics due to "superbugs." Anyways, he says that unless there is very severe periodontal disease and the bacteria introduced into the bloodstream during a routine dental from a nick on the gums could be a major issue if the dog is immunocompromised, prophylactic antibiotics are NOT indicated. Just like how if you go to your dentist and the hygienist nicks the gums, you likely don't need antibiotics either.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> He is pretty cool as even though he's pretty old, .


Like over 45 or what? :lol:

You don't mean the age of dirt, right? Like a few mods here?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> he says that unless there is very severe periodontal disease and the bacteria introduced into the bloodstream during a routine dental from a nick on the gums could be a major issue if the dog is immunocompromised, prophylactic antibiotics are NOT indicated. .


Good to hear this, because I do know it's still around as S.O.P.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Like over 45 or what? :lol:
> 
> You don't mean the age of dirt, right? Like a few mods here?


I think he's even OLDER THAN BOB! :-o:-o:-o He's semi-retired but still goes out west every year on a fall photo trek to Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, Mt. Ranier (he supposedly climbed it a few years ago!), Bryce Canyon, etc. He always likes to put random pictures of his travels in his lecture powerpoints. :mrgreen:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I think he's even OLDER THAN BOB! :-o:-o:-o


Oh, c'mon.

That kind of crazy talk will lose you some credibility!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

You mean I had some to begin with???? WOO HOO!!! \\/\\/\\/


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Funny posts


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ted White said:


> Funny posts


 
Oh sure! YOU think it's funny. 
Connie probably fell of her rocking chair she was laughing so hard. :razz: :razz: :grin: 
This lack of respect from these younguns today is down right mean! :razz: :wink:


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

My pup just turned 1 year old. Was looking at the diet and wondered if he's considered an adult from the RAW feeding perspective. Should I be targeting maybe 3% of his weight at this time?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ted White said:


> My pup just turned 1 year old. Was looking at the diet and wondered if he's considered an adult from the RAW feeding perspective. Should I be targeting maybe 3% of his weight at this time?


How is his figure?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

The 2%, 3%, 5 to 10% numbers are all to guide us in maintaining appropriate weight. Sometimes it's a medium-active adult, and sometimes it's a growing puppy who is using calories to grow and to run around like a puppy, which is why the % in the guideline varies.

Whatever it is, if the dog is the right weight, then the % is right.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

figure is really good, actually. Slight rib, etc.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ted White said:


> figure is really good, actually. Slight rib, etc.


Then you're still at the right percent.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I don't go by % at all, just use it as a guideline. I go by body condition. My Dane is eating 4% of her BW per day to maintain her slim figure, yet my GSD who is far more active and is only about 20lbs lighter than her only needs about 2 to 2.5lbs per day. Every dogs metabolism will be different.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Great replies, thanks a lot


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