# Ray Allen agitation harness broke.. :(



## Hoyt Yang (Dec 26, 2007)

Hey mods, not sure if this topic should be posted here in the 'bitework' section, so excuse me in advance if it's not in the right place.

During stake out agitation, my 15 month mal broke an agitation harness made by Ray Allen. The harness has been used only a few times, with no signs of wear and tear. The damage occurred right where the rivets connected two overlapping pieces of leather. Since there is already a hole in the leather to accommodate the rivets, that proved to be the weak point. The leather simply ripped. 

Question is, was the harness designed to be used ONLY in conjunction with a bungee, to ease the instant stress that's placed on it? I am sure that the good folks at Ray Allen will stand by their product and take care of my purchase, but I wanted to know what everyone's opinion was- before I accuse the manufacture of making a harness not strong enough. I have also never had such an issue with my old agitation harness.

Any recommendations for a new harness will also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


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## Kevin Powell (Aug 15, 2008)

I sure hope for your decoys sake you weren't using the opportunity to discover the civil side of that 85 lb mal of yours!


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## Hoyt Yang (Dec 26, 2007)

Kevin Powell said:


> I sure hope for your decoys sake you weren't using the opportunity to discover the civil side of that 85 lb mal of yours!


LOL. No, this one is smaller Kevin. Jack will be taking a bite from him tomorrow. (The one that broke the harness- :-\")


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Hoyt we have our own made. If the harness broke at the rivots, was there any stiching in that area? As a decoy, I had a snap swivel break on tie out lines and landed on my back. Talk about wetting yourself! ;-)


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I like the harness I got from Fullgripgear.com

send the Ray Allen harness back to them, they most likely will fix or send you a new one. 

I had a 20 year old leash where the stitching was coming out and a rivet had popped. They fixed it AND sent me a new one all for the price of me shipping the original leash to them.


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## Chad Byerly (Jun 24, 2008)

I had great dealings on the phone with Ray Allen about a pair of their old bite pants with the big M stitched on (Michel Moreau?), because a couple of the weird buckles broke. I just wanted to know if I could buy some buckles, or if they could suggest where to get them. The guy on the phone said they'd ship me a box of their new style buckles so I could replace any more that might break, no charge. I was clear that I got these from ebay and wasn't the original purchaser. Really good customer service, from my experience. 

I got my Belgian suit around the same time, and the club member who has the pants now still has the unused free buckles, he's happier using his carharrt suspenders anyway. ;-)


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I like Ray Allen, but I wasn't impressed with their harnesses. My years in the military, I made dozens of harnessing sets for the US Army's Caisson platoon (horses), and my family runs a saddleshop business with decades history, so I know good quality leather construction when I see it. My wife bought one from http://www.fordogtrainers.com/ before I could stop her, but surprisingly the quality wasn't all that terrible at all (made in China). I'd still recommend doing as Howard did, going to a custom shop, and stitching will always outperform rivets.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> I like Ray Allen, but I wasn't impressed with their harnesses. My years in the military, I made dozens of harnessing sets for the US Army's Caisson platoon (horses), and my family runs a saddleshop business with decades history, so I know good quality leather construction when I see it. My wife bought one from http://www.fordogtrainers.com/ before I could stop her, but surprisingly the quality wasn't all that terrible at all (made in China). I'd still recommend doing as Howard did, going to a custom shop, and stitching will always outperform rivets.


Fullgripgear.com has the nicest harnesses I have seen. Well built and well thought out.

http://www.fullgripgear.com/harnesses.html


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

I bought mine on ebay from a amish leather worker. Better quality than any harness I have seen online. Stiched, riveted, and padded. It was also custom. They let you pick what kind of harware you want and the color. I've also bought a 33 ft leather tracking line and a police lead, all very reasonable priced. Just search (amish dog or something like that) on ebay


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

The harness should have been fine on a stake out, I've used mine (various manufacturers) on stake outs over the years without problem. It was probably just an issue with where the rivet was put, to close to the edge of the leather or in a spot that was already thinner/weak. I'd just send it back and get it replaced. It's never a bad idea to have a backup line on the dog though either, just in case


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## Hoyt Yang (Dec 26, 2007)

Thanks for all the advice. I called Ray Allen, and I gotta say, they have excellent customer service. A new agitation harness is going out tomorrow with a return slip for me to return the broken one. They've speculated that it probably has something to do with what Kadi said- the positioning of the rivet being to close to the edge, causing it to rip.

I agree with Kadi about the second safety line.. you can never be too safe! In the last two months, I've had 2 harnesses (yes, this is the second harness that broke, the first one was ordered from Leerburg) and a long line snap on me. My decoy personally checks all of my equipment before we train.. LOL


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I had exactly the same thing happen with a leather agitation harness from Dethyse. They also responded satisfactorily, but I chose to take it to a leather guy I know who fixed it. When all my stuff was recently stolen I decided to replace that harness with this one, which I really like better:

http://www.dogequipment.com/products/HARNESSES-ULTRA_leather.html

One of the things I like better are the buckles are bigger, which make it easier to work with a hyped up dog. I also really like the quality of the leather and the workmanship. Also, my dog is not a large shepherd, but the largest size of this harness is perfect for him. It's Amish made I guess (at least that's what I just read on that site. Knowing what I know about the way they treat puppies I probably wouldn't have bought it if I had seen that before.)


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I have one of those as well and it is very nice, how do the Amish treat puppies ?? 

We don't have Amish in Canada but we have Hudderites which is probably the same thing, they are a waste of skin.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Hi Gerry, Off Topic, so I sent you a "PM".


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## Sara Findley (Feb 27, 2008)

I have a fullgripgear harness as well and I love it! its held up well.


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## Josiah Neuman (Aug 14, 2008)

I have purchased the tracking harness by Bridgeport for agitation work and have yet to see one break or need to be replaced. Super durable and very reasonably priced. 

http://www.bridgeportequipment.com/ProductDetail.aspx?productId=96


Josiah


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## Hoyt Yang (Dec 26, 2007)

Although Ray Allen is replacing the one that broke, I will definitely be in the market for another harness. Thanks for all the suggestions... now it comes down to narrowing down my choices. 

I looked at the one Susan suggested, and have to agree that it looks very well made- and should be a cinch to put on given the almost 'oversized' buckles.


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## Hoyt Yang (Dec 26, 2007)

Josiah Neuman said:


> I have purchased the tracking harness by Bridgeport for agitation work and have yet to see one break or need to be replaced. Super durable and very reasonably priced.
> 
> http://www.bridgeportequipment.com/ProductDetail.aspx?productId=96
> 
> ...


I actually like the lighter color of the harness shown, and the fact that you can choose the color. Price is certainly reasonable. Do you know where it's made? Have you seen this harness used for stakeout agitation or by handler on a leash?


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## Josiah Neuman (Aug 14, 2008)

Yes I have used this harness for tie-out agitation work and its been great. Someone recommended this make/model a few years back, specifically for this type of work and I am very pleased.

I placed an order this past week for a few clients and one of them is the light color you were talking about. I really like it - this morning I snapped a few pics and put them on my site for you to check out: http://www.mndogtraining.com/Harness.html

Regards, 

Josiah Neuman


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## Hoyt Yang (Dec 26, 2007)

Josiah Neuman said:


> Yes I have used this harness for tie-out agitation work and its been great. Someone recommended this make/model a few years back, specifically for this type of work and I am very pleased.
> 
> I placed an order this past week for a few clients and one of them is the light color you were talking about. I really like it - this morning I snapped a few pics and put them on my site for you to check out: http://www.mndogtraining.com/Harness.html
> 
> ...


Awesome, thanks for the help Josiah! Interestingly enough, they list the harness you've shown as a 'tracking' harness, but also offer another harness on their site without the breast plate as an agitation harness. The one shown for agitation is the same style as the Ray Allen one that I had. Logically, it seems as if the ones made for tracking will be more durable, since there are more areas to divert the pressure, and should be more comfortable for the dog.


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