# What gives?



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I've been on Facebook since September and made a number of connections with folks from the WDF and other working dog folks. Either I am looking at the wrong stuff or the notion that Facebook killed the forum is pure bull S-H-I-T.

The only thing I can see that gives Facebook any kind of an edge is it suits lazy people who aren't all that interested in any meaningful working dog dialogue. I'm somewhat grateful to at least see some of the people who I have developed friendships with here actually are alive and well, but beyond that well...

What am I missing? 

BTW a mal has appeared in a nearby property. I don't particularly like all the noise it makes. I do hope that she at least liked the moose scraps she stole from my yard. I discovered this on my security cameras. At first, I thought WTF is my dog doing outside? Turns out same shape, different color. :grin:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've never agreed that face book killed this forum.

Many forums run their course with the same ol. same ol questions and that can make some just stop logging on.

Also, we have had a few people on here that would harass the hell out of new folks that may not be as informed as others.

Maybe made for some excitement but some could and did get way to carried awy with insults and name calling.

I've seen it on more then one forum and often time these forums become more pet folks the working dog folks. 

I've also been to a few forums where there was no control over the insults and name calling and these turn int guts that. name calling and insults with nothing constructive at all.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

What are your options with a strange dog in your area? 

Doubtful there are leash laws where your at but a roaming dog coming on your property and stealing things seems to be a serious violation.

My grand father on my mom's side had a nice place in the country and grandpa was a dog lover.

At the same time I know he had no issues with shooting free roaming dogs that became a pia!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Ah Bob, she's a mal. She jumped the fence.

The noises… well. Some of it started off with rutting around looking for stuff to keep busy with. I thought at one point her head got caught in something by all the noise she was making. No, listening more I could tell it was frustration and to some extent self rewarding noise/stimulation. 

She also does this repetitive and odd yelp. If you didn't know it, you'd think you were listening to a puppy that just got hurt. I suppose maybe under two is what she is, and probably grew to replicate some of that attention seeking stuff that netted a reward of a human appearance. I haven't analyzed it that much more (ya had to ask…) but I suspect she's alone, probably on a chain or certainly confined in a way that isn't all that interesting. So the SOS bark evolved and repeats. Those prick eared dogs are good for that...

A few options to sheltering myself the noise - expressing gratitude for my silent Dutch and listen to music. I might sing once in the while or talk on the phone to people who listen to what I got to say. Sometimes I look at old cars too (smile). I took a pic of me next to that car I sent you a pic of. It was pretty cool to see it in it's glory days. Thanks for the 411 on that!

And hey, I own my fractious ways here. I mostly toy (name called/insulted) with rick. It's kind of my schtick here. He rolls the new people, I play tetherball with him.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

HA! I got it. A project for the three that remain on the forum. Let's figure out what the f.u.c.k is wrong with this pale colored Wasabi impostor with a voice. 

rick! what say ye?!?!

I found a rib bone in the front yard. Maybe this is a clue of some sort. Fence dividing of course… :wink:


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

I check in on this site most days, but it is pretty quiet. I'm one to usually only respond when it is a topic of interest or I feel I have something to share...but it has been super quiet as of late... rhythm of life I would assume...


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

No for sure FB kills this forum, there is so many dogs forum on FB from all over the world, people keep adding me to them and I keep having to get out because some are ruthless lol. But I'm Khoi Pham on FB if anyone wants to friend me, make sure you see me catching a dog and not another Khoi Pham.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm game. Next time I log in I will hunt you down.  

So, uh there's actual forums within FB? People actually talk there and not just thumbs, give a heart, or a WOW face? If they do talk, I'm betting it's not more than a few sentences. Most people live off their phones, it's a shitty platform for discussion. JMO. 

Well… now the prick eared bitch is howling. This is new. I honestly wonder what my Dutch thinks of all that noise she makes. 

Perhaps it's time to return the favor. Few people have heard the ruckus this dog makes while in drive. I don't know if this is specific Leewen line or if a lot of dogs make this noise. But that noise Spike makes around 1:10 or so is what she does. The pitch varies a lot and sounds like sheer madness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTUwVWO8qO0


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Here's a better example of that noise…. not the music Bob :wink:.

For those wondering what the hell is going on in this video, it's noting more than an unskilled helper giving stick hits to the dog. This came up because of a scenario presented here that I didn't think a good dog would back down from. What I did not realize is it was a single stick hit came before engagement and that's what stopped the dog. 

Had I realized that I wouldn't have even bothered to see what she might do the first time she was hit with a stick. I didn't think the hits looked all that bothersome, but I got hit with it and noticed not only the dog had welts from it, so did I.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAf3FWVP6LE

Mind you. We're talking about noise trading here; that is, it's why I brought it up at all. I wanted to show a small sample of what she sounds like.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Well it worked and I learned that "she" has a penis. 

He remains quiet. I'm sure he's trying to figure out how he missed another dog nearby. Um, too much noise maybe? Teasing. He is however, looking toward the fence waiting for something interesting to see or hear. This might be an interesting experiment. 

So for those handful of people still lurking. If a fence was your barrier and direct rewards (like food/toy) aren't likely. How might you go about shaping silence? that is if you even believe there is such thing that can be achieved... 

So for those creative souls, besides the obvious of talking to the neighbor which will most likely involve a less desirable way to address this, how might you approach quieting the dog?

Keeping Dick Staal's "making it rain" in mind - I'm going to keep an eye on him and see if he's influenced by rain.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That noise Spike is making sounds like a monster sized version of one of the grand kid's Pap x Pom when she gets excited.

I've had terriers that made the same noise with quarry and I have always connected it to very high drive dogs.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I want to see that picture with the 54.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> I want to see that picture with the 54.


You know Bob, if I show you... I'm going to have to kill you. :grin:

I did pass to you a pic of me, which I could never been identified from anyway. :twisted: It was of me and my last walk with Willow. The pictures were caught on a game trail. It was pretty cool to see there was another picture taken the day before and then the one of us following. 

Man if there were ever two pics that summed up a decade of some of my best times, those two pics would be it.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

:lol: :lol: 

Of course I recall the pictures of willow following the Moose scent and some unrecognizable "person" way off in the distance. :lol: :wink:


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

I prefer quiet dogs. Sounds like new neighbour dog is bored or lonely. If the weather is nice, hangout in your yard on a lounging chaise with some refreshment and play some relaxing tunes. See what happens. Sure makes you appreciate having a quiet dog yourself, right?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Hi Meg, lovely to see you again. Quiet is certainly nice.

Interestingly enough he does appear to like music. I played Willie Nelson and sang along. The song seemed fitting, in some way. Maybe I'll check and see if he and the Dutch can keep company with one another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdtx-pxjX8A


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I'm a little late to the party here. Still recovering from 3 sweltering days in the sun with Jim Duncan in a hard surface tracking class. It's a reminder of why I work at night.](*,)

Reference the neighbors Mal....Catch him. Test him. Then if he has the goods, sell him.  Seriously though..have a conversation with the neighbor and see if they're open to rehoming him.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Funny Howard, I had a slightly similar thought as I was looking at him though the fence. You know, he's already somewhat been rehomed. The dog belongs to the neighbors daughter. 

How did the HST go? Did you guys have fun?


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

That noise in human means let me go, bitch.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I just deactivated my fb account for a while.
There are good groups on there that are somewhat like forums but there's serious "cliques" going on within them.
Convo's go on for way more than a few sentences but you have to filter through a load of shit in them also.
FB has had a really positive effect on working dog training in the UK, especially in bitey stuff. The scene has grown in bucket loads. 

This forum is pretty cool atm I would say, shame about the lack of new content though. 
I might make some soon I think.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Funny Howard, I had a slightly similar thought as I was looking at him though the fence. You know, he's already somewhat been rehomed. The dog belongs to the neighbors daughter.
> 
> How did the HST go? Did you guys have fun?


 It was good. We started with hydration tracks, then tracking through drive, then discrimination tracks. My boy was clueless at first with the hydro system but he picked it up pretty good on day two. The asphalt was blistering and a few dogs had some injuries. Luckily my boy only came out of it with a slightly torn rear pad. It's an eye opener to see the dogs actually track in such severe conditions. I work nights so I'm hardly ever exposed to said conditions.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> It was good. We started with hydration tracks, then tracking through drive, then discrimination tracks. My boy was clueless at first with the hydro system but he picked it up pretty good on day two. The asphalt was blistering and a few dogs had some injuries. Luckily my boy only came out of it with a slightly torn rear pad. It's an eye opener to see the dogs actually track in such severe conditions. I work nights so I'm hardly ever exposed to said conditions.


For those who hard track during the day wouldn't it be a plus to introduce the dogs to foot gear such as some sled dogs wear? 

I would think burning feet could really distract all but those with crazy drive for the track.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> For those who hard track during the day wouldn't it be a plus to introduce the dogs to foot gear such as some sled dogs wear?
> 
> I would think burning feet could really distract all but those with crazy drive for the track.


 Absolutely. I don't think any of us thought it was going to be that hot. The biggest distraction was all the dogs and activity going on at the same time. They settled in though.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> There are good groups on there that are somewhat like forums but there's serious "cliques" going on within them.


Nah. That's a deal breaker for me. Not interested in cliques or drama. Always been that way. Appreciate the heads up on that. I'm not desperate enough for some good dog talk to waste time in the mucking fields for a few nuggets of gold.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Facebook, for me is for fun. I may click a thumbs up on a post but any attempt to discuss your own opinion meets with nothing but anger and insults. 

To many folks ready to trash you as a person.for any one "belief" they disagree with.

I offer my opinion on somethings to those I know will at least listen and offer their on thought on the subject. 

Those people also know it's not about insulting and name calling. 

No matter where I'm at or on my motto will always be the same. 

"The words of a fool offend only another fool". :wink:


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Bob Scott said:


> For those who hard track during the day wouldn't it be a plus to introduce the dogs to foot gear such as some sled dogs wear?
> 
> I would think burning feet could really distract all but those with crazy drive for the track.


Don't some people use that Musher's Secret balm to kind of protect dogs' feet from hot pavement too?


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> Absolutely. I don't think any of us thought it was going to be that hot. The biggest distraction was all the dogs and activity going on at the same time. They settled in though.


Was the class in Florida? Jim's good folks. Probably one of the best, most humble, dog guys I've ever worked with. I learned a lot from him. Always willing to do cadaver hides for me. Most cops won't touch the stuff with a 10ft pole.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sarah Platts said:


> Was the class in Florida? Jim's good folks. Probably one of the best, most humble, dog guys I've ever worked with. I learned a lot from him. Always willing to do cadaver hides for me. Most cops won't touch the stuff with a 10ft pole.


Yea, he brought up some HRD stuff. lol


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## Jim Duncan (Jan 19, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> It was good. We started with hydration tracks, then tracking through drive, then discrimination tracks. My boy was clueless at first with the hydro system but he picked it up pretty good on day two. The asphalt was blistering and a few dogs had some injuries. Luckily my boy only came out of it with a slightly torn rear pad. It's an eye opener to see the dogs actually track in such severe conditions. I work nights so I'm hardly ever exposed to said conditions.


I really enjoyed the training, some super nice dogs down in Florida with excellent Officers and Handlers. I was very impressed. Super great bunch of guys as well. Howard has a super nice Malinois as well, a tracking machine. A nicely balanced dog, social and absolutely civil. A very friendly, approachable, high drive dog that turns it on. 

There is no doubt that dogs can track / trail on hard surfaces. 

I was a little surprised at the torn pads on a few dogs. I've never had that happen before. I'm doing another seminar in VA next week, I will see how if those dogs have tougher feet.  

The Florida K9's had no issues with tracking in the heat or all of the distractions. We ran some split tracks and every dog followed the correct tracklayer. It was a little warm, I ran 7.2 miles on tracks on Thursday. 

Sarah, I learned a lot from you as well.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words, Jim. It was good to meet you in person finally. There were some excellent dogs there to be sure. I was impressed as well. It was nice to see that over the last 10-15 years PSD handlers have upped their game, in S. Florida at least.  I can't remember the last time I've been to a group training like this one and seen so many good dogs. I don't believe I saw one dog there that I personally would not work. They were all very good. The arm bites whilst wearing the fire hose was, shall we say...very interesting. Ouch!


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## Jim Duncan (Jan 19, 2009)

The fire hose wrap is fun and good stuff. It is really good for "green" dogs. I thought it was funny that you and I took the most dogs in the wrap.  

I wish I had gotten pics or video of that. Besides being a good exercise for new dogs, I really wanted to show how well and quickly the "outing tool" works. It is a good thing to have to get a dog off a bite in a second or two. 

Seriously, you guys have really nice dogs. I don't say that lightly. I like Johnny's dog and the fact that you all let me pet him during the conditioning drills. Then later on you all say that your shocked he didn't bite me when I was petting him. Good times.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jim Duncan said:


> The fire hose wrap is fun and good stuff. It is really good for "green" dogs. I thought it was funny that you and I took the most dogs in the wrap.
> 
> I wish I had gotten pics or video of that. Besides being a good exercise for new dogs, I really wanted to show how well and quickly the "outing tool" works. It is a good thing to have to get a dog off a bite in a second or two.
> 
> Seriously, you guys have really nice dogs. I don't say that lightly. I like Johnny's dog and the fact that you all let me pet him during the conditioning drills. Then later on you all say that your shocked he didn't bite me when I was petting him. Good times.


Well, we are either brave, or stupid. 

I have video of me taking Archie's big GSD on the wrap. I also have video of you taking the dogs as well.=D>

Johnny's dog, Caesar probly figured you were just stupid so he didn't bite you out of respect. LOL Every time he gets near me he's looking for a fight. David's young dog bit the hardest. I was very surprised. Hurt like hell.

It was good to see Koby, the dog I sold to Indian River County almost 7 years ago. He was my most favorite at the kennel. Sure would have been nice to see your rank dog though. You should bring him down next time.


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## Jim Duncan (Jan 19, 2009)

I was smart and took the green dogs. It wasn't too bad on my arm. Cesar is a really nice dog, I liked him. He is also a good judge of character. 

Yes, that dog Koby was another really nice dog. 

I almost drove and brought my dog, I wanted to. My wife not so much.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

So Bodie tracked a suicidal subject last night. Just heard from Johnny that Caesar tracked, and apprehended a burglary suspect with warrants. Got additional charges of armed occupied burglary and battery on a police dog as well. Nice engagement from what I'm told. Caesar stayed in the fight despite getting beat on by the suspect.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

That is great to hear.


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## Jim Duncan (Jan 19, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> So Bodie tracked a suicidal subject last night. Just heard from Johnny that Caesar tracked, and apprehended a burglary suspect with warrants. Got additional charges of armed occupied burglary and battery on a police dog as well. Nice engagement from what I'm told. Caesar stayed in the fight despite getting beat on by the suspect.


Awesome work! Funny, Johnny was asking me to evaluate his dog and if I thought his dog was "soft"? That dog is a really nice dog! I guess Johnny was just trying to get me bit again. :grin: I wouldn't want to get bit by Caesar.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Thanks Khoi.

Jim, that dog bites hard. Even through the suit he leaves marks. The perp was screaming that his leg was broke. Can't imagine a bare flesh bite with that dog I'd scream too!


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