# Dogtra or Tri tronics or Other



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Hey curious to what other preferences are, I am a Dogtra guy, also am looking for the best customer service / cheapest place to buy a 3 or 4 dog system, but would settle for a 2 dog system used but still close to brand new for a fair price. Only have two dogs right now but would like the capabilities of more if need be than to have two transmitters.


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

we had tritronics till about 5 yrs ago, but they can't be imported anymore due to the used frequencies. Don't ask me the details, don't know.. since than we use dogtra


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Just went through this  I love love love my dogtra, wouldn't trade it for anything. I have the 1702, 2-dog system. They don't make them anymore but 1902 is the equivalent, there are others.

As far as the multi dog ones, they're about equal. I have a thread when I was trying to choose, and wrote a review on the TT system I ended up getting.

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f30/looking-multiple-dog-ecollars-18831/


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Dogtra all the way !

have the 2300 ncp and never had any issues with it.


----------



## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> Hey curious to what other preferences are, I am a Dogtra guy, also am looking for the best customer service / cheapest place to buy a 3 or 4 dog system, but would settle for a 2 dog system used but still close to brand new for a fair price. Only have two dogs right now but would like the capabilities of more if need be than to have two transmitters.


Dogtra!


----------



## Dominic Rozzi (Aug 2, 2009)

Ted Efthymiadis said:


> Dogtra!


if you are looking for versatility, then i would say tri-tronics, you can buy anyone of their units and go from one dog to three and there is a six dog unit---the newer models are redsigned in the placement of the tone button, but i think that is the only change---dogtra does not give you the options tri-tronics does---for example if you buy a two dog unit and for some reason you need to add another dog you cannot---with tri-tronics if you buy a unit you have a number of options the sport basic and combo lets you go to three dogs. i've used them both and field tested for other companies i like the tri-tronics over do tra for just those reasons----


----------



## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I like the tri tronics because the way I use it the stim is less harsh than the dogtra


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Im a sculpter with my Tri-Tronics 8)


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Mine are all Dogtra. I think they are th 1900 or something like that. I like the dial-up stim, it's good when training in some surprise, fight type situations. I've got 4 and am in the process of ordering 4 more. I just don't have problems with them. 

DFrost


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I have Dogtra, and I have no complaints, great collars great service!


----------



## Grant Cusworth (Feb 15, 2011)

Dogtra for training, and tri-tronics for my bark collars. No complaints about either for those uses.

Grant


----------



## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I've used both and find both have good reliabilty , customer service and operate in all types of areas and situations . But I like the smaller size of the Dogtra and the rhiostat control of the stim .


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Appreciate all the feedback, any other takers with opinions:wink:


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Appreciate all the feedback, any other takers with opinions:wink:


Yes there has been a few who mention that they have "had no problem" with Dogtra collars. Trying to decipher if that means that they 'have' had problems with Tri-Tronics? 

I'm not sure if I do need an e-collar any more but I do like the idea that the TT is still made in America. I also like the idea of 3 different levels of stim without having to play with a rheostat. Another thing that has me leaning towards the TT is it has the capability to easily upgrade the amount of collars as well as accessories like different colour tracer lights for locating the dog in the dark as well as a beeper option. I do like the idea of a vibrate on Dogtra though vs the Tone on the TT. 

This is not the first time I've heard that a TT has a smoother stim as well when working with lighter levels of stim. 

It would be nice to hear some feedback on the Martinsystem from Belgium products especially the finger kick option. http://www.martinsystem.com/index.htm


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I use the dogtra. I have had tri-tronics and innotek as well.

I like the dogtra "vibrate" option to let dog now she is doing something correctly.

I also like the size of the transmitter. it is small light and convenient, and I like the range of intensities on the stim.

A lot of people like the tri-tronics better for other reasons. 

I know someone who got in a road rage type short scuffle recently, and he grabbed the tri-tronics transmitter and whacked the guy with it.

If you have to hit someone with something, I vote for the tritronics, especially the older ones, can kill someone with it if you have to , the dogtra would probably break....


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> I use the dogtra. I have had tri-tronics and innotek as well.
> 
> I like the dogtra "vibrate" option to let dog now she is doing something correctly.
> 
> ...


Your funny Joby8), never looked at it from that point of view, but good observation on your part.


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I really like the Dogtra collars, in fact I am a Dogtra dealer, but I will say that the quality of the Tri Tronics is maybe a little better than the Dogtra. I prefer the Dogtra due to smaller and simpler transmitter size. Both collars are at the top of the list in terms of quality, customer service, performance and reliability.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> A lot of people like the tri-tronics better for other reasons.
> 
> I know someone who got in a road rage type short scuffle recently, and he grabbed the tri-tronics transmitter and whacked the guy with it.
> 
> If you have to hit someone with something, I vote for the tritronics, especially the older ones, can kill someone with it if you have to , the dogtra would probably break....


Nice!!! \\/ That's another thing the TT transmitter (the pro ones) looks like they would be harder to break, you know falling out of your vest unto the concrete harder to break. Being bigger it would be harder to misplace too, I misplaced my Dogtra transmitter at one point. I knew it was in the house but for the life of me couldn't find it. When I did find it it was hanging up in the front hall as one of my kids put a back pack over it and no one could see it. I looked for the thing for like a week! [-X Almost called Dogtra to order a new receiver as I panicked when it wasn't showing up.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> Nice!!! \\/ That's another thing the TT transmitter (the pro ones) looks like they would be harder to break, you know falling out of your vest unto the concrete harder to break. Being bigger it would be harder to misplace too, I misplaced my Dogtra transmitter at one point. I knew it was in the house but for the life of me couldn't find it. When I did find it it was hanging up in the front hall as one of my kids put a back pack over it and no one could see it. I looked for the thing for like a week! [-X Almost called Dogtra to order a new receiver as I panicked when it wasn't showing up.


I have dropped my dogtra a couple times in the grass while training.
In grass of any length they are not super easy to find. It also has fallen in the crack of the car seat/console...have luckily always found it. Have dropped in on the pavement before too, luckily did not break.

I cannot remember if it was Thomas or Mike Scheiber that is big on tri-tronics, but someone was saying how the delivery method of the stim is faster and better with the tri-tronics. I have been ok with the dogtra though...

UNRELATED:
one of the funniest things I ever saw, concerning an e collar was a girl training a DS, the dog was not outing. she was yelling LOS...and was hitting the button, over and over, her BF was getting chewed up in the suit in a bad spot...dog was not outing.

The funny part was the collar was not on the dog, it was in her hand with the transmitter... would have been funnier if it was on and she shocked herself....I doubt that could happen with the tri-tronics....


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

While opening the package for the first collar that Dogtra sent me, I popped the transmitter out of the foam, fumbled it and then watched it skid across the kitchen counter and "Bloop" as it disappear into a sinkful of soapy dishwater. After a mental "Oh sh!t!" I rationalized it away by remembering that I had warned them that I was going to try to break it and figured that would be a good test of it's waterproofness. I left it there overnight. It's still working, probably 10 years later. 

I've intentionally dropped that same transmitter onto hard surfaces repeatedly; I stopped counting at 40 times. Once I threw it through a layer of wallboard when I was teaching a class indoors on rubber mats and realized that dropping it onto rubber would not be much of a test. Someone said "Throw it" and I did. 

I prefer the Dogtras because they have about 8 1/2 times as many stim levels as the TT's and that lets me dial in, with more precision, the level of stim that the dog needs.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I have dropped my dogtra a couple times in the grass while training.
> In grass of any length they are not super easy to find. It also has fallen in the crack of the car seat/console...have luckily always found it. Have dropped in on the pavement before too, luckily did not break.
> 
> I cannot remember if it was Thomas or Mike Scheiber that is big on tri-tronics, but someone was saying how the delivery method of the stim is faster and better with the tri-tronics. I have been ok with the dogtra though...
> ...


I like the low stim continues butterfly flutter of the Tritronics rather than the zzzzzzzzzzzz of the Dogtra Ive never compaired the speed I suspect there both faster than me.
Tritronics is second nature to me I understand it as dose my dog.
My dog sees me grabbing my collar and here's the jingle of his pinch and hes stoked and knows its time for fun and work obedience, bite work or tracking no matter.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Lou Castle said:


> I prefer the Dogtras because they have about 8 1/2 times as many stim levels as the TT's and that lets me dial in, with more precision, the level of stim that the dog needs.


I understand that yes in theory they (Dogtra) have a lot more adjustability and you say precision but in practical application I did not find that. It has a momentary nick and a continuous which is the same level of stim unless you visually look at the rheostat and dial it up or down. With a pro level TT there is a low /med and high and then adjustment with the rheostat. It can be done with feel under your fingers where you don't need to take your eyes off the dog. That can't be said about the Dogtra product IMO. 

There is nothing wrong with either product in how they operate but they do operate differently. I think it does boil down to the handler in what they feel comfortable in using plus their style of training and what the dog responds too.


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> I understand that yes in theory they (Dogtra) have a lot more adjustability and you say precision but in practical application I did not find that.
> It has a momentary nick and a continuous which is the same level of stim unless you visually look at the rheostat and dial it up or down. With a pro level TT there is a low /med and high and then adjustment with the rheostat. It can be done with feel under your fingers where you don't need to take your eyes off the dog. That can't be said about the Dogtra product IMO.


When you adjust stim by moving from one level to another as you've described doing with the TT's, by using the low/med/high buttons or going to another click stopped level, you're guessing as to what the dog needs in the given situation. It's an arbitrary increase or decrease in the stim level. When it's done by someone with experience it's an educated guess, but it's still a guess. 

There's no reason to look at the LCD readout of Dogtras as you increase or decrease the stim. It's there so that you can know what your dog's working level is and you can go back to it tomorrow. You should be watching the dog as you move the dial. When you see a response from him, usually a head movement, you know that he's feeling the stim in the new situation. 

I prefer the dial system of the Dogtras, that allow me to go up and down smoothly, without "stops" in the stim. That allows better use of the guidance system with the Ecollar. Before the Dogtras came along training like this was only an approximation. 

With a product that has relative few stim levels there are bigger jumps between them. Going up or down one level on a Dogtra means a change in power of 0.8%. Going up or down on an Ecollar that has only 15 levels means a power change of 7%. That's big a jump, especially when increasing the stim level. it may be too much for some dogs. It's not all that critical if all you're doing is using the Ecollar to correct misbehavior or for aversion training. But if you're training with the collar as I do, it's way too much. It may also be too much of an increase for a stim−sensitive dog. 



Geoff Empey said:


> There is nothing wrong with either product in how they operate but they do operate differently. I think it does boil down to the handler in what they feel comfortable in using plus their style of training and what the dog responds too.


Agreed. There's an awful lot of brand loyalty that has more to do with what you started out using than with any real advantage of one system over another. I used TT's for many years because they were the only brand that was consistent and reliable. But when I saw the Dogtra system and heard of the changes they have made that brought them to the same reliability level, I switched over. My TT's have sat in a drawer or been sold off since then.


----------



## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

Both have their good points, both are high quality too. Innotek is a POS. I prefer Tritronics for lots of reasons but the big one is that its made in the USA. Both have good customer service too. I like that you can increase the stim on a Dogtra mid correction, but I'll disagree with Uncle Lou about needing to look at the transmitter while doing that. That is meant as no disrespect to Uncle Lou, just my opinion. I can increase the stim by feel with Tritronics just not mid correction. I'm a knuckle dragger and the rheostat dial on Dogtra is a tad senistive for my pickle fingers.


----------



## Derek Milliken (Apr 19, 2009)

I like Dogtra.
Actually bought my first collar off Uncle Lou about 10 years ago (1200NCP). Used it with no problems for years.
Bought a 1900, but I need to replace the transmitter battery after only a few years, it's not holding a charge anymore.
Have a 7100 on order, hopefully it gets here tomorrow.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Another thing that's nice with Tritronics is their trade up program. They will give you 25% off of a new system if you need to replace a system because of an issue beyond the warranty period. That's something that none of the other companies do. Smart move on TT's part as that sure creates quite a bit of brand loyalty for their products. http://www.tritronics.com/content/trade-up/


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> Another thing that's nice with Tritronics is their trade up program. They will give you 25% off of a new system if you need to replace a system because of an issue beyond the warranty period. That's something that none of the other companies do. Smart move on TT's part as that sure creates quite a bit of brand loyalty for their products. http://www.tritronics.com/content/trade-up/


Wow, that IS a hefty chunk o' change discount, very nice!!


----------



## morris lindesey (May 2, 2009)

Martin Systems and then Tritronics


----------



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

I had the 1700 and now the 2300 Dogtra. I didn't like the battery on the 1700 took for ever to charge and the charge lasted a day or two at most, after about 1.5yr the charge only lasted a couple hours. The 2300 is much nicer, charges in a couple hours and lasts a few days, and so far so good. I also prefer the magnetic collar to receiver on/off vs the button on the collar. I actually had the 1700 turned off by accident more then once. 

How about the TT vs SportDog? I'm considering their 1825. I do like the option of being able to program multiple buttons for a certain stim level without having to toy around with the rheostat. 

Regarding having all those 127 levels of stim, it's a bit of a moot point. I never use any thing below 15 and when I increase the level it's always by a couple points at a time. I only go one at a time if I'm trying to find a base level to work with.


----------



## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

I was a TT fan and think they are a very well made product and have excellent customer service but I love my Dogtras and find them more suited to my training style now. I am currently using a 1900 and have yet to try out my 3502, but will probably break that out this season.

I have owned a couple of SportDogs as well, had terrible luck with them. I wouldn’t recommend them, although the customer service was fantastic, the collars themselves just didn’t work out for me. But that was a few years ago now, maybe they have improved their products.


----------



## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

currently putting dogtra's customer service to the test. what should be an easy $10 solution for their error is turning into a headache for me. we'll see how it turns out tomorrow when i speak with the "supervisor".


----------



## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

I like my little Sport Dog!! Really cool little hand piece and solid construction too.


----------



## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

It goes down to personal preference. Both are great but I'm a Tritronics guy. We use them in our law enforcement seminars that we host with Doug Roller from Tactical K9. The Pro series give you lots of different stim levels that you can choose from to meet the needs your training. The EXP transmitters ,AKA remote, in the in the Sport series can control up to 3 collars. In the other series, the EXP models can control up to 6 collars. You can buy the collars as you need them because they are all the same and programable in the field. If you break or loose a receiver, AKA collar, you can just order one and program it when you get it. Its very simple to program the collars. And for some very stubborn dogs, you can easily program 2 receivers to the same freq and place them on both sides of the neck. Something you can't do with Dogtra. If you do go with Dogtra, stay in the lower number models like the 1900 NCP. The only difference you get as the numbers get higher is range and more money. In LE and sport, if our dogs are more than 1/2 a mile from us, we have other issues besides e-collar problems.


----------



## Charles Wrenn (Apr 22, 2008)

Which dogtra system do you recommend for Schutzhund training?


----------



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Pete Stevens said:


> The only difference you get as the numbers get higher is range and more money. In LE and sport, if our dogs are more than 1/2 a mile from us, we have other issues besides e-collar problems.


lol very true

The one nice perk you get with moving up to the 2300 from the lower models is the rapid charge. 2h from dead to full and the charge lasts a few days, even over a week with little use. 

Old thread... I just sent my 2300 off to Dogtra for warranty work. The remote was stuck on 40 even though the dial was turned all the way down to 0. We'll see how they handle it. 

I did buy a SportDog 1825 about a year ago, what a piece of shit! Hated it, barely used it and ended up selling it. Some thing as simple as going up a level.. I'm so used to just turning the dial on the Dogtra.. on this thing you had to cycle through the 3 sub settings, or take the collar off the dog and change the settings on the collar.. way too many things bells and whistles tones multiple settings, etc I just want the damn thing to zap the dog when I press the button.. and even on all the settings turned to high (and confirmed that the collar was working) could never make contact even with longer prongs on my Corso, that or he just wasn't bothered by it. 
I did like how tiny and light the collar was but at the same time it felt really cheap and like it wouldn't survive much good use.


----------



## Rik Wolterbeek (Jul 19, 2009)

..

UNRELATED:
one of the funniest things I ever saw, concerning an e collar was a girl training a DS, the dog was not outing. she was yelling LOS...and was hitting the button, over and over, her BF was getting chewed up in the suit in a bad spot...dog was not outing.

The funny part was the collar was not on the dog, it was in her hand with the transmitter... would have been funnier if it was on and she shocked herself....I doubt that could happen with the tri-tronics....[/QUOTE]

Do I know the girl?

Rik Wolterbeek


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Rik Wolterbeek said:


> ..
> 
> UNRELATED:
> one of the funniest things I ever saw, concerning an e collar was a girl training a DS, the dog was not outing. she was yelling LOS...and was hitting the button, over and over, her BF was getting chewed up in the suit in a bad spot...dog was not outing.
> ...


Do I know the girl?

Rik Wolterbeek[/QUOTE]

Rik we once told a kid in order for the dog to be shocked he had to put the prongs on his forearm and turn it up to mid range and hit nick, because if he was going to shock the dog he had to know what he was doing to the dog, well you can guess what happen next LOL, he was pissed but laughing at the same time afterwards, we honestly didnt think he was going to do it.


----------



## hillel schwartzman (Nov 9, 2008)

I have been a real big TRI-Tronics fan for years and still love mine.But I am now experimenting with the Martin Systems (finger kick) and Must say so far Very Very Impressed...The simple fact is it is freeing up my hand and improving my timing with repect to corrections and releases...Keep ya posted..


----------



## Aaron Rice (Jun 12, 2010)

Rik Wolterbeek said:


> ..
> 
> UNRELATED:
> one of the funniest things I ever saw, concerning an e collar was a girl training a DS, the dog was not outing. she was yelling LOS...and was hitting the button, over and over, her BF was getting chewed up in the suit in a bad spot...dog was not outing.
> ...


Do I know the girl?

Rik Wolterbeek[/QUOTE]

Was that here in IL?


----------



## Aaron Rice (Jun 12, 2010)

hillel schwartzman said:


> I have been a real big TRI-Tronics fan for years and still love mine.But I am now experimenting with the Martin Systems (finger kick) and Must say so far Very Very Impressed...The simple fact is it is freeing up my hand and improving my timing with repect to corrections and releases...Keep ya posted..



How is it holding up?

Pretty Reliable?


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Pete Stevens said:


> Both are great but I'm a Tritronics guy. We use them in our law enforcement seminars that we host with Doug Roller from Tactical K9.


I'd prefer to learn from the guy who trained Doug. His system takes a bit more time (a couple of days, tops) but it gives much better results. I've seen both, I've used both. The Ecollar is just part of the system that is used to get the most from the dogs. 



Pete Stevens said:


> The Pro series give you lots of different stim levels that you can choose from to meet the needs your training. The EXP transmitters ,AKA remote, in the in the Sport series can control up to 3 collars. *In the other series, * the EXP models can control up to 6 collars. [Emphasis Added]


The _"other series"_ is called the "Field Series." But it's more confusing than that. In the Field Series ONLY the Classic 70 G3 and the Trashbreaker G3 can handle six collars, NOT all of the collars in the Pro series (there are six of them) can take six receivers, as you said. In the Pro Series, you can only link three collars to a transmitter. Best way to compare their features is on the comparison chart on TT website. CLICK HERE. 

I question the real need to have collars on six dogs at once but I'm happy to let those who know more about this issue, school me. In many pack situations it's necessary to control only the pack leader and the rest of the dogs will follow his lead. Just about everyone who has a two dog system has, at some point, stimmed the wrong dog. I'd bet that the problem would be much more frequent with six buttons. It's rare that two dogs, much less six, will be working at the same stim level, and so, not only do you have to remember which button goes to which dog, but which stim level is the right one for each dog. I'd bet that there are very few people who can do this without error. It is good marketing though!



Pete Stevens said:


> You can buy the collars as you need them because they are all the same and programable in the field. If you break or loose a receiver, AKA collar, you can just order one and program it when you get it. Its very simple to program the collars.


TT has a marked advantage for those who run large packs of dogs. But for the average user, this difference means nothing. Usually, systems that provide two collars are plenty enough. With many of the Dogtra units, you also can replace lost receivers by programming new ones yourself. This is the case with the 2300, the 3500, the 300, the 7100, the 7000, the 2500 and the RR Deluxe series. And with the others in the line, since you have to go to Dogtra to get them replaced, all you need to do is to supply some information that's on the transmitter to have them send a replacement collar with the correct frequency. 



Pete Stevens said:


> And for some very stubborn dogs, you can easily program 2 receivers to the same freq and place them on both sides of the neck.


This is a bit off topic but should be addressed. I've never felt the need to do this. I think that a goal of using an Ecollar with a PSD (Police Service Dog) should be to work at the lowest levels possible so that he stays focused on his searching, NOT to escalate higher and higher until, at some point you have to do something like this, use multiple receivers to get compliance. What's the next step − the cattle prod? Having to go to two receivers on one strap shows that the trainer is working against the dog, rather than with him. Instead of setting up training to allow the dog to fulfill his drives, he's working against those drives. Instead of a team that's working together, you have a trainer/handler who is trying to force his will on the dog. THIS sort of thing is what gives ammunition to those who are working to ban Ecollars around the world. 

I'd suggest that instead of working with a trainer who advocates using HIGHER levels of Ecollar stim levels, that you investigate someone who can show you how to use LOWER levels of stim. It's better for the search work, and that is, after all, the reason that we have dogs. 



Pete Stevens said:


> Something you can't do with Dogtra.


Sure you can. First of all. NO ONE needs to put two collars on one strap to get more power. But even if someone wants to do this, you can get Dogtra, or any other manufacturer for that matter, to provide collar units tuned to the same frequency. Many units that Dogtra has (I mentioned them above) allow you to program another receiver to the collar, just as with the TT's. But again, there's really no need for this. It's the electrical equivalent of giving harder and harder corrections. That's the path to the sharpened pinch collar, the nail collar and the cattle prod. What happens when you run out of power? Do you plug into the house current? 



Pete Stevens said:


> If you do go with Dogtra, stay in the lower number models like the 1900 NCP. The only difference you get as the numbers get higher is range and more money.


Sorry Pete, when you go to the higher numbers, like the 2300 or the 3500 you get several things. You get the longer range you mentioned, you get the ability to program more collars to the receiver yourself and you get the quick charge capability (two hours to a full charge). With the 7000 and the 7100 you get a vibration in the transmitter that tells you that you've pressed the button. The last is useful for those who wear gloves, which includes those working in cold climates, and many of those who work tactical ops. 



Pete Stevens said:


> In LE and sport, if our dogs are more than 1/2 a mile from us, we have other issues besides e-collar problems.


If the only difference was in range, you'd have a point. But since these units have more range (more power in their output – not in the level of stim), it allows them to get a signal through in difficult receiving conditions, such as rolling hills, the presence of chain link fences or buildings that have internal metal construction. It's rarely an issue with sport dogs but it is often is with police dogs. 

But I think that the real advantage of the Dogtra Ecollars is still the fact that they have so many levels of stim. This allows the stim to be turned up and down smoothly without the huge jumps between levels that collars with 8, 10 or even 15 levels have. If you're blasting, and someone who suggest two collars on one strap – because one collar is not strong enough, IS blasting; it's not going to be important. That trainer has issues that are separate from this discussion. If you want to take full advantage of an Ecollar to communicate more than just pain and correction to your dog, the Dogtra is the better choice.


----------



## Dan Spenser (Oct 29, 2010)

TriTronics = reliability


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lou Castle;32457If you're blasting said:


> Lou,
> 
> I'm going to ignore most of your rant, because it's just more of the same old same old.
> Multiple collars on one strap are for balance and non directional LOW stimulation. I'd suggest asking the trainers that use multiple collars (Bart Bellon) for their advise. Multiple collars on separate straps can also be used for directional training. Labeling a style of training as "BLASTING" because you don't understand, it is pathetic.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Dan Spenser said:


> TriTronics = reliability


Short, sweet, to the point and 100% correct


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Dan Spenser said:


> TriTronics = reliability


Those of us who have been around for longer than others, and have been using Ecollars for that period, know that this has not always been the case. TT has had some quality problems. They've never admitted it to my knowledge, but I know that I sent my, then brand new, Pro 1000 back to them five times for repair and they were never able to fix it. The collar would work sometimes ... It would work for 4-5 stims and then stop working. Then it would work 4-5 more times and then stop for the rest of the day. Other TT users in this area had similar problems, and the people that I was in contact with, across the country, did too. 

That's about the time that Dogtra sent me a collar to use to see if I liked it. I did. I put my TT in the drawer and only took it out to send it in one more time for repairs, and then to sell it on eBay. I've purposefully dropped my Dogtra 1200 transmitter, the first one that they sent me, onto hard surfaces, over and over at seminars, to show how tough it was. I stopped counting at about 40-60 drops. I once threw it across a room, almost all the way through a layer of wallboard. I let it sit overnight in a sink−full of soapy water the first night I got it. It's never needed repairs. 

These days the big three, TT, Dogtra and Innotek are easily equal in quality, quality control and customer service. There are some new Ecollars on the market that show promise, Unleashed Technology, and the Einstein among them. But they have yet to pass the test of time. There are some others too, but I don't have experience with them yet.


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Multiple collars on one strap are for balance and non directional LOW stimulation.


Nope Thomas you're wrong. The one time that it's been mentioned in this discussion, was when Pete Stevens wrote this, *"And for some very stubborn dogs, *_you can easily program 2 receivers to the same freq and place them on both sides of the neck."_ [Emphasis Added]. It's obvious that he is NOT using it for, as is your claim, _"balance and non directional LOW stimulation."_ It's obvious that he's using it for the extra power that it provides. Otherwise he'd not have said anything about _"very stubborn dogs."_ 

It's true that SOME people are using it for balance with low level stim. But it's not, as you hint, the only reason for doing this. In my experience, and that of many that I've spoken to, people who are using it for these reasons are in the minority. With low level stim, rarely do the dogs try to move away from the discomfort. That is much more of an issue with high level stim. Rarely do the dogs try to move away from the minor discomfort that a low level stim brings. It's much more common that they try to move away from the pain of high level stim. THAT is where the balance that two collars on one strap brings, is useful. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> I'd suggest asking the trainers that use multiple collars (Bart Bellon) for their advise.


You use the plural, _"the trainer*s *that use ..."_ but then you only mention one trainer, Bart Bellon. I use multiple collars when it's appropriate. But rarely is it. Oddly, Mr. Bellon never mentioned this "balance" thing that you describe at the seminar that I attended. He DID mention using multiple collars, but not in this fashion. He spoke about using them on various parts of the dog's body to achieve various ends. He may be doing this now, but when I saw him, it wasn't a concern. 



Thomas Barriano said:


> Multiple collars on separate straps can also be used for directional training. Labeling a style of training as "BLASTING" because you don't understand, it is pathetic.


What's pathetic Thomas is that you think that I don't understand these concepts. I understand that this is driven more by your personal dislike for me, than by reality. It's a shame that you can't separate the two. I struggle not to respond in kind. 

It's obvious that Pete Stevens is using two collars for the extra power, NOT for balance using low level stim. I've seen the person he mentioned, Doug Roller, work many times, and he's not using low level stim.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> You use the plural, _"the trainer*s *that use ..."_ but then you only mention one trainer, Bart Bellon. I use multiple collars when it's appropriate. But rarely is it. Oddly, Mr. Bellon never mentioned this "balance" thing that you describe at the seminar that I attended. He DID mention using multiple collars, but not in this fashion. He spoke about using them on various parts of the dog's body to achieve various ends. He may be doing this now, but when I saw him, it wasn't a concern.


Where and when did you get to attend one of Bart Bellons seminars? A large number of NVBK trainers seem to be using multiple collars not just Bart. Please explain your use of multiple e-collars other then for direction or balance.


----------



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> I just sent my 2300 off to Dogtra for warranty work. The remote was stuck on 40 even though the dial was turned all the way down to 0. We'll see how they handle it.


Dogtra called me today, they are replacing the dial assembly at no charge under the warranty. They asked if while they have the collar I would like them to replace the batteries in the collar and remote, $64 charge. I haven't had any battery issues, not sure how long they're supposed to last. I got the collar in May 2010.. what say you more experienced folk?


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Since it's already there, I'd go ahead and do it. Saves the hassle of having to do it in the future anyway/

DFrost


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> Dogtra called me today, they are replacing the dial assembly at no charge under the warranty. They asked if while they have the collar I would like them to replace the batteries in the collar and remote, $64 charge. I haven't had any battery issues, not sure how long they're supposed to last. I got the collar in May 2010.. what say you more experienced folk?


I sent back my Tri-tronics G2 receiver to replace the housing (one of the strap clips broke) they'll replace the housing under warranty but offered to replace the battery while it was there 
The rep said the battery lasts 3 1/2 - 5 years and I've had it for a little over 3 years. I passed, figured the battery should be good for another two years and when the time comes. I'll replace it myself. Just take out two screws.


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> Dogtra called me today, they are replacing the dial assembly at no charge under the warranty. They asked if while they have the collar I would like them to replace the batteries in the collar and remote, $64 charge. I haven't had any battery issues, not sure how long they're supposed to last. I got the collar in May 2010.. what say you more experienced folk?


Marta if you've taken proper care of the batteries they'll last 3-5 years. "Proper care" means that you've charged the unit at least once a month if it's not in use, and that you've not left it on charge continuously when it's being used regularly, but it's not on the dog. Charging them continuously will kill the batteries pretty fast, it's about the worst thing that you can do to them. So the real answer lies with you. They're easy to change yourself but you have to be careful of a few things. There's an article, with photos, about this on my forum.


----------



## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

I'd hate to see what Uncle Lou would do to one of my arrest reports. Probably run out of red ink.....


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

I'd guess that this comes from my numerous corrections to your last post in which you gave incomplete, and at times, improper information. Instead of enlightening and informing, which was probably your goal, you did the opposite. Some of the _"information"_ you supplied was flat−out wrong. If a police report that you'd written contained as much misinformation as your post, you're darn right it would be "bleeding red." When you try to pretend that you're an expert on Ecollars and then you spout information that's completely wrong (I'm not referring to matters of opinion, I'm speaking to matters of fact) you lose credibility. 

I notice that you didn't disagree with any of my "corrections." 

BTW there is no such thing as "... out of red ink."


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Good GAWD Lou.........give it a rest.


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Pete took a cheap shot after being corrected, and I responded to him politely and professionally. 

Why don't you take some of your own advice for a change?


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> Pete took a cheap shot after being corrected, and I responded to him politely and professionally.
> 
> Why don't you take some of your own advice for a change?


If you think your reply was polite or professional...you're delusional. WTF are YOU to correct any/every one?


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> If you think your reply was polite or professional...you're delusional.


Perhaps I should check with you in the future. BWAAAAAAAAA 



Thomas Barriano said:


> WTF are YOU to correct any/every one?


I hardly correct _"everyone."_ 

Several things that Pete said were incomplete and some were just wrong. If you REALLY had knowledge about Ecollars you'd know this. I filled in the blanks that he left and corrected his errors. Anyone who doubts my statements can check them on the TT and the Dogtra websites. Perhaps YOU can show me where my corrections were in error. 

Wondering, WTF are YOU to question how or why I correct someone? To paraphrase ... Good GAWD Thomas.........give it a rest. 

You're well on your way to getting this thread locked too!


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Lou, has Dogtra ever givin you free merchandise or paid you for anything?


----------



## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

Gees Lou- You need to lighten up. My comment about the report correction was some humor about you tearing me a new one. If thats a cheap shot in your view, I apologize for your perception. Again, it was meant as humor not a personal attack. 

As far as being an expert- I have never claimed to be an one. I give my opinions and realize that just like all opinions, some may not agree with me. If I made a mistake about features of Dogtra, I will stand here and be spanked and accept it. Uncle Lou is correct that the higher end models of Dogtra have a stronger stim level. I was wrong because I was going off a comparison chart for the models that I sell. Non of which are the low/medium models.

However.....I disagree with you on the need for 127 stim levels...again, just my opinion, not a personal attack on Uncle Lou. I like the positive click of the Tritronics system because I like to look at the dog and know that I'm not going jump way up in levels from a 40 to an 80 because I didn't need to look at the LCD displayand take my eyes off the dog, again, my humble opinion.

The need for up to six dogs is mostly for the hunting guys and trainers. For example, you go to a training site with 3 or more dogs you are training. Since you will most likely be training them one at a time, it might be nice to just have one transmitter and just flip switch when you bring a new dog out to train instead of needing to put a collar on or buying another transmitter. As far as training just the pack leader- I'm not a hunter and haven't trained a pack of hunting dogs.

I also like the feature of being able to marry any transmitter to any receiver without sending it to the company to be programed. 

2 receivers can be used at low levels or briefly at a high level but then reduced down to a lower level. It gives some balance to the correction which some dogs need. Again, my opinion which some may disagree with. 

I haven't experienced an inability for either system to not transmit through a chain like fence and I usually have my eyes on the dog when I press the stim button so the need for me to transmit over a hill or through a building hasn't been necessary for me at this point.

I don't Don Yarnell personally and I'm guessing that is who you are referring to in your last post when you commented about learning from the person who taught Doug Roller. But I do know that Yarnell was a pioneer in E-collars for LE and I have nothing but respect for him. However, I do know Doug personally and I've been able to do a lot of training with him. I have great respect for Doug and consider him a good friend and mentor.

As far a customer service- I've heard both positive and negative about both companies. I personally have only experience positive from both. I do like buying American though.

Maybe we can agree that you prefer Dogtra and I prefer Tritronics for LE applications. Just like some people like Chevy or Ford , Sig or Glock, taste great or less filling, etc. And for the record, I'm known for my good arrest reports...and my humor.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I just think they're both good ecollars, they both have their negatives and positives, it simply comes down to what works best for the individual. I'm not an expert, but I know what I like, happens to be Dogtra, but that doesn't mean it's the best collar in the world nor does it mean it's the right collar for everyone.


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> Lou, has Dogtra ever givin you free merchandise or paid you for anything?


When they first made the changeover to the E−linear system they sent me a 1200 to test, to see if I liked it. Other than being a dealer for them (I used to be a dealer for TT too) they don't pay me anything.


----------



## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Pete Stevens said:


> Gees Lou- You need to lighten up. My comment about the report correction was some humor about you tearing me a new one. If thats a cheap shot in your view, I apologize for your perception. Again, it was meant as humor not a personal attack.


Pete I'd suggest that if you intend for something to be taken as "humorous" when there's a chance that can be taken otherwise, is that you use the occasional "lol" or a smiley. People who study this stuff tell us that about 50% of communication comes from such things as body language, tone of voice, and facial expressions. Since we don't have those things here, it's easy to err and misunderstand some meanings. Had you thrown in a smiley, more than likely, all you would have gotten was my last sentence about never running out of red ink. 



Pete Stevens said:


> As far as being an expert- I have never claimed to be an one.


When you authoritatively make statements about "what Ecollar does what" as you did, someone who knows little or nothing about Ecollars will assume that you know what you're talking about. People who know Ecollars, but don't know the product line, well may also be confused if you give out information that is not accurate. You made several errors of fact that might mislead someone into making the wrong purchase. 



Pete Stevens said:


> I give my opinions and realize that just like all opinions, some may not agree with me.


Not one of my comments about the products, was about opinions Pete. They were all matters of fact. 



Pete Stevens said:


> If I made a mistake about features of Dogtra, I will stand here and be spanked and accept it. Uncle Lou is correct that the higher end models of Dogtra have a stronger stim level. I was wrong because I was going off a comparison chart for the models that I sell. Non of which are the low/medium models.


I'm sorry Pete, but you got it wrong again. Dogtra offers Ecollars with two ranges (not levels) of stim. One group has power (of the stim) in what they call "the low to medium range" and the other is in "the low to high range." The highest level of stim that the first group has, is about 2/3 of the highest level of stim that the second group has. However, this was not under discussion. 

The collar that you mentioned, the 1900 is in the "low to high range." You told people that _"the only difference you get as the numbers get higher is range and more money."_ That's incorrect, as I pointed out in my response to you. There are quite a few significant advantages to the higher numbered (and more expensive) units. 



Pete Stevens said:


> However.....I disagree with you on the need for 127 stim levels...again, just my opinion, not a personal attack on Uncle Lou.


Pete this is a matter of opinion and while I disagree with you, and have demonstrated the advantage of it many times, I can't "correct" you on this. There is no right or wrong, as there is with facts. You are entitled to whatever opinion you like. We work and train differently. You see nothing wrong in using high level stim (as evidenced by your _"2 receivers"_ on one strap for _"very stubborn dogs"_ comment) on a police dog and I know that it negatively affects the search work by focusing the dog on the handler instead of on the search. You work against the dog's natural drives at times (the reason that you need two collars) and I strive to work with them. 



Pete Stevens said:


> I like the positive click of the Tritronics system because I like to look at the dog and know that I'm not going jump way up in levels from a 40 to an 80 because I didn't need to look at the LCD displayand take my eyes off the dog, again, my humble opinion.


Well Pete, this is NOT a matter of opinion. There's no need to _"look at the LCD and take [your] eyes off the dog,"_ with the Dogtras. I've never had, even the rankest of beginners _"jump way up in levels, from a 40 to an 80."_ You just look at the stim level when you start working with the dog, set it to the appropriate level, and after that, you watch the dog. Since some here require video as proof, I'll offer this. Tell me how many times this handler (trained by Donn Yarnall BTW) looks at his transmitter. CLICK HERE 

Here's another handler (also trained by Donn) using the Dogtra. Again, see how often he looks at his transmitter. CLICK HERE 

For those who don't bother to look at links, NEITHER of these handlers EVER looks at his transmitter to set the level while the dog is working. These are clips from the Dogtra video "Guidance Training" done by Donn Yarnall. Those people who think that they need to look at the LCD screen are either newbies, who don't realize the reality or those who have not been properly trained in the Ecollar. There may be another force at work here and that is a basic human need to classify things, to put them into categories, slots and levels. It's not necessary to look at the transmitter with ANY brand of collar. Once you've been taught the correct way to work an Ecollar, you don't need to look at the transmitter to determine the level except at the very start of the work. After that you watch the dog. It takes but a little practice to learn to do it this way. 



Pete Stevens said:


> The need for up to six dogs is mostly for the hunting guys and trainers.


I think you'll find that TT created these units for the hunting guys. Any trainers who are doing this, and I bet that they are in the minority, are taking advantage of a system that was created for people who run packs of hounds. I'd bet that trainers who are taking dogs around to show to prospective clients or for training would rather have a couple of collars, just in case one goes bad or turns up with dead batteries. If it's done as you propose and that happens with the one transmitter that's controlling six collars, you're out of luck. When I was training two dogs of my own, I had BOTH a two dog collar and another single dog unit, in case one of them went belly up. In any case, I think the situation you describe, is relatively very rare. 



Pete Stevens said:


> As far as training just the pack leader- I'm not a hunter and haven't trained a pack of hunting dogs.


Me either. But I know the history of Ecollars. They were originally invented for hunters who ran packs of dogs. Occasionally they'd start chasing "the wrong game." Back then, and for decades after, Ecollars had only one collar unit. The need to correct other pack members is extremely rare, and, as I've said, it's a rare trainer who can pick the right dog and the right stim level with six buttons under his thumb. 

I think that part of this (being able to marry six collars to one transmitter) comes from the computer model of sales. You have to have something new every couple of months. If you don't you'll be behind the curve and your competitor will have those features while you don't. It's great marketing, but has little real application, especially for police service dogs. 



Pete Stevens said:


> I also like the feature of being able to marry any transmitter to any receiver without sending it to the company to be programed.


Pete you just did it again. If you purchase any of these Dogtra units; the 2300, the 3500, the 300, the 7100, the 7000, the 2500 or the RR Deluxe series, you can marry additional receivers to them. You DO NOT have to send anything back _"to the company to be programmed."_ 



Pete Stevens said:


> 2 receivers can be used at low levels or briefly at a high level but then reduced down to a lower level. It gives some balance to the correction which some dogs need. Again, my opinion which some may disagree with.


Again, there's no need to use two receivers even "briefly at a high level" to get a dog to do anything. I've gotten the out from dogs that fought through cattle prods, using just one Ecollar. It's a matter of knowing how to work with the dog's drives, instead of against them. 



Pete Stevens said:


> I haven't experienced an inability for either system to not transmit through a chain like fence and I usually have my eyes on the dog when I press the stim button so the need for me to transmit over a hill or through a building hasn't been necessary for me at this point.


Pete I really wish that you hadn't said this. Many people have had this issue. You can either learn from their experience or wait until it happens to you. If you do that it might be too late, and you may find yourself in hot water. _"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."_ – Will Rogers. 



Pete Stevens said:


> I don't Don Yarnell personally and I'm guessing that is who you are referring to in your last post when you commented about learning from the person who taught Doug Roller.


Yes, it is. We share a common opinion on this "two collars on one strap" thing. For anyone who is interested, the correct spelling of his name is "Donn Yarnall." 



Pete Stevens said:


> As far a customer service- I've heard both positive and negative about both companies. I personally have only experience positive from both. I do like buying American though.


I too have heard both sides of both company's customer service. Do you know where the batteries in your "buy American" Ecollars come from? Let me assure you that it's NOT the US. 



Pete Stevens said:


> Maybe we can agree that you prefer Dogtra and I prefer Tritronics for LE applications. Just like some people like Chevy or Ford , Sig or Glock, taste great or less filling, etc. And for the record, I'm known for my good arrest reports...and my humor.


This is NOT just about Dogtra v. TT. It's about someone who sells these units not really knowing about their features and misinforming potential purchasers. 

It's also about a very basic difference in how Ecollars are used for training LE K−9's. You think that by going to higher levels of stim you can force a dog into compliance. You're not alone in this, in fact, it's the way that many trainers work. There are some who have learned a better way. I suggest that you investigate them. At some point, with some dogs, you'll run out of power. I've worked with a few dogs like this. Instead of blasting them with higher and higher levels of stim, going to two collars on one strap, or a cattle prod, it's possible to use LOWER levels of stim, (that don't distract the dogs from their searching) by setting up training so that you're working with the dog's drives, instead of against them. If you're interested in learning about this, just let me know. Might I suggest that you start with a thorough read of Donn's site.


----------



## Larry Birnholz (Jun 22, 2010)

susan tuck said:


> I have Dogtra, and I have no complaints, great collars great service!


 tritronics is the best and is now with gamin will always be the best American company in the world had many problems with dogtra units have to speak to a Koren woman in Cally and pay to ship back


----------

