# Personal Protection Wolves?



## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Ok, bare with me this is a bit of a rant. A friend who knows I'm into dogs calls me up, it's urgent. Him and his gf got their first dog, a Rott from a byb a few months ago so I figured he has some general dog care question. Nope.

He wants to import a wolf from Texas. Some one in Texas breeds Canadian Timber Wolves for pets and he wants to know if I know of any one here locally in Canada who breeds them so he can get one for cheaper. WHY??? Because I always wanted one and they're cool and they're unique and they're 200lbs... as the conversation progresses.. and I want one for personal protection. This is where I smack my forehead for the second time even harder. 

Long story short conversation went from why on earth would you want to buy a wolf to live with you in the city to the typical what is a protection dog, etc I think I managed to convince him to hold of on the idea of importing the wolf and training it to become a protection dog through some guy he found who used to train pit bulls to fight (oh this was some conversation!)

Does any one have any good links/articles for total newbs who want to look cool on what a protection dog is, etc. I think I convinced him to come with me to our club and watch some protection dogs in training for now, maybe I can convince him to do sport or at least he can see how much work goes into a dog like this. He even self admits he doesn't like dogs very much (that's why he wanted a wolf, uha).


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Hi Marta,

Do you know Renee from Niagara Hundesport? I believe she has experience with owning a wolf hybrid years ago, so she may be able to help you out.

From people I know with experience in anything even partly wolf, the animal is normally too fear aggressive to be of any help as a protection dog.

A couple of links I found..

http://ezinearticles.com/?Wolf-Hybrids---Wolf-Dogs---A-Controversy&id=2448467

http://www.wolf-to-wolfdog.org/chapter2.pdf


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Just tell him they always turn on their owner.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Geoff on this forum had one.


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## Matthew Thurston (Jul 26, 2010)

Heck why stop with a wolf when you can get a PP Kodiak! :twisted: Or if you have a moat I hear Bull sharks are highly trainable...


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Geoff on this forum had one.


I've owned quite a number of wolves in the past, usually from about 200 yrds.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I've owned quite a number of wolves in the past, usually from about 200 yrds.


 
Lol. I owned one male...actually I was just a temp home for two years until an appropriate home could be found. He ended up going to a rescue/preserve. I would NEVER encourage anyone to own one. They are not dogs, do not make good pets, and if you have one that thinks its the protector in the household, you've done screwed yourself. I have a friend who currently owns a female that he's had for 10 years. We both rant to each other all the time about how morons think owning a wolf would be cool.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think you should let nature take it's course. He will figure out pretty quickly that he has made a mistake.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I think you should let nature take it's course. He will figure out pretty quickly that he has made a mistake.



Yea. Here's your sign...dumbass\\/


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I have one of these in one of my obedience classes. Pretty cool dog. It isn't a wolf but it would be better for him if he is looking for the appearance of a wolf. It's called a Tamaskan.

Here's the website: http://www.puppyfind.com/tamaskan.php


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## Cassandra Lane (Jul 2, 2010)

Thow him to the wolves! Problem solved.\\/

To be serious...exactly how many brain cells is this yahoo missing?! 

Unfortunately in Canada we don't have much PP. There is something called SDA (http://servicedogsofamerica.com/) that some people are really into, but its not available here. I really seriously doubt this guys ability to keep up with training. Bring his rott to get evaluated, after a few weeks he'll start rebuidling engines or some nonsense....


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Cassandra Lane said:


> Thow him to the wolves! Problem solved.\\/
> 
> To be serious...exactly how many brain cells is this yahoo missing?!
> 
> .


If it sais Ed Hardy on them I'm sure he has them all.

Thanks for the wolf links, I was actually looking for good what is a pp dog links so he can at least start grasping that idea before he even decides on a breed or species for that matter.

I've met the rott before, she's timid and looks like some sort of lanky dobe cross. The "trainer" he has been in touch with who has been helping him train this dog told him they have to wait until she is 1yr old before they can do protection training (implying they will) with her (this is the pit bull guy). 

While I don't know much about wolves and wolf hybrids, from what I have heard from people who have dealt with them as pets, all said NOT PETS. People buy them because they think they're cool and then dump them when they realize it's a wild animal.

This guy got chatted up by this breeder he found and she has told him that they make excellent pets, that they are very protective of their family (which he likes because he wants to have a mucho protection dog), a little harder to train then the average dog (I think that's a big understatement on her part), and guess what she has two pups available immediately. This guy barely knows the first thing about dogs, he didn't even want the rott because he doesn't like dogs (his gf convinced him to get the puppy). 

When will some one invent the cure for stupid?


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

To be honest, I skipped most of the replies.

My 'Husky mix' Maverick is part wolf. He's not a really high percentage, but it's there, and pretty evident in his behavior. He is NOT a typical dog. He doesn't warm up to strangers very fast, or very well, and has bonded closely with our family. 

However, he is VERY skittish, and despite any 'bond' I wouldn't rely on him for protection. Nor would I trust him with anyone's kids but my own, simply because kids can be stressful and he is so jumpy. That being said, He is not what I see as a threat either, because he will simply go outside or in another room to avoid at all costs.

Tell them they are welcome to contact me with any questions. Wolfdogs are one thing I have researched the crap out of, and will gladly share info about. (even if Maverick isn't the best example)


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Marta Haus said:


> Ok, bare with me this is a bit of a rant. A friend who knows I'm into dogs calls me up, it's urgent. Him and his gf got their first dog, a Rott from a byb a few months ago so I figured he has some general dog care question. Nope.
> 
> He wants to import a wolf from Texas. Some one in Texas breeds Canadian Timber Wolves for pets and he wants to know if I know of any one here locally in Canada who breeds them so he can get one for cheaper. WHY??? Because I always wanted one and they're cool and they're unique and they're 200lbs... as the conversation progresses.. and I want one for personal protection. This is where I smack my forehead for the second time even harder.
> 
> ...


There was some research done into this. I believe it was a US military experiment. If I remember correctly, the wolves/dogs/hybrids performed well WHILE WORKING, but were generally unmanagable otherwise. I read reference to this in Steven Lindsay's Handbook of Applied Dog Behavior and Training, Vol. 1. I no longer have this book so perhaps someone who does can post the citation and more info.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Megan Berry said:


> To be honest, I skipped most of the replies.
> 
> My 'Husky mix' Maverick is part wolf. He's not a really high percentage, but it's there, and pretty evident in his behavior. He is NOT a typical dog. He doesn't warm up to strangers very fast, or very well, and has bonded closely with our family.
> 
> ...


He's not looking for a wolf hybrid, he wants to buy an actual wolf.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> There was some research done into this. I believe it was a US military experiment. If I remember correctly, the wolves/dogs/hybrids performed well WHILE WORKING, but were generally unmanagable otherwise. I read reference to this in Steven Lindsay's Handbook of Applied Dog Behavior and Training, Vol. 1. I no longer have this book so perhaps someone who does can post the citation and more info.


Yes I saw some thing about that too in one of the articles I read. Even if this was a viable option it sounds like the end result would be a kennel animal, not a suburban house pet that carries your groceries for you and magically becomes a fearless protector if you say a special word.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

when I had my boarding kennel- I had a client that had a Wolf...the animal was just beautiful- HUGE but beautiful- the client was an LEO , but he had to have special permits to be able to keep him, he had to show he had safe containment areas on his property to keep him, as did I in my kennel - this animal, was passive- I would let him run our property-he loved to swim, and he actually got along with my other boarders- he was aloof, not super affectionate-like a golden, or lab....more like a confident, dominant dog like -did not show any aggression- this particular wolf was a joy. But this officer had him since a pup- and did not introduce him to any kind of bite/protection work- just obedience- and that was an officer that was involved in working dogs and K9's-had a lot of experience. I am sure he made that choice-not to ever introduce this Wolf to bite work for a responsible reason.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

There was actually a full hour of The Dog Whisperer on exactly why you should not own a wolf simply because you will never give it what it needs and on how bad they are when forced into the role of a dog. He travelled around Cali with a wolf expert helping the owners... It wad pretty educational. In the end many of them are abandoned, put in shelters or killed.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Geoff on this forum had one.



Yes a Wolf Malamute hybrid .. it was horrible it turned me off dogs for over 10 years... #-oNever ever again would I consider owning one of these. 

It was very difficult to train to do anything, I spent months trying to heel with the dog and do basic OB with it. I just gave up and just ran the living shit out of him to have him chill. 

Very independent hated children, killed everything it could catch ground hogs, cats squirrels, it lived to hunt. It could never be left in a crate or pen. It wasn't separation anxiety either, it would just try to escape from everything and anything. When it did escape it would run for 3-4 days. If I didn't run it every 2 days for 15-20 miles it would go crazy trying to escape. 

He was very distrustful of strangers and couldn't be left in a boarding kennel as he would go after the caretakers, I tried to rehome with a famer dude and it went after his wife etc. The farmer offered to shot him for me but being a big sucker I felt responsible for the animal and took him back. I shood have taken the farmer up on that offer.

When I put it down after it went after my daughter when she was 2 luckily he didn't get her but that had to be the last straw, it was a relief to rid myself of that furry anchor around my neck. 

Never again ...


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## Kara Fitzpatrick (Dec 2, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> I have one of these in one of my obedience classes. Pretty cool dog. It isn't a wolf but it would be better for him if he is looking for the appearance of a wolf. It's called a Tamaskan.
> 
> Here's the website: http://www.puppyfind.com/tamaskan.php


 
That's not the correct site for Tamaskan-those are just crappy breeders trying to make a buck. And there are also two fraud breeders that are under a website called "tamaskan club of america". 

here is the real website that will direct you to good breeders and have correct information on the breed.: 
http://www.tamaskan-dog.us/web/Litters.html


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

From a quick google search... wolf ownership in Canada is illegal. You might want to point that out to your friend. Hopefully it will discourage him. 

http://www.wolfechovalley.com


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

I had a wolf dog mix I could have given him last year. Instead I had it put down. Worst pets ever. I did my best to rehab once I found out what it was. But didn't work out. The question isn't would they make a good protection dog (which they won't, wolves are shy) but what do you do with them if they don't? And do you have a Ft Knox style kennel to keep them in? They dig, climb, escape artists, can be aggressive to other animals, hard-headed, difficult to train, separation anxiety, eat up stuff, dig up plants, can get out of any fence, not trustworthy around livestock. Wonderful. Everything you'd want in an animal.

Not only that, the thing was poorly bred and had hip dysplasia.

good luck to your friend. 

Donna


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Donna DeYoung said:


> I had a wolf dog mix I could have given him last year. Instead I had it put down. Worst pets ever. I did my best to rehab once I found out what it was. But didn't work out. The question isn't would they make a good protection dog (which they won't, wolves are shy) but what do you do with them if they don't? And do you have a Ft Knox style kennel to keep them in? They dig, climb, escape artists, can be aggressive to other animals, hard-headed, difficult to train, separation anxiety, eat up stuff, dig up plants, can get out of any fence, not trustworthy around livestock. Wonderful. Everything you'd want in an animal.
> 
> Not only that, the thing was poorly bred and had hip dysplasia.
> 
> ...


Was this the specimen you got from rescue and posted on this board ?


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

leslie cassian said:


> From a quick google search... wolf ownership in Canada is illegal. You might want to point that out to your friend. Hopefully it will discourage him.
> 
> http://www.wolfechovalley.com


Ok that's what I thought! I didn't think to look that up myself. I asked him if he checked if they are legal because I didn't think they were (at least not in the city) and he said he called animal services and was told as long as it's not a pit bull (we have bsl) it's ok. 

Thanks Leslie!


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

I kinda knew what would be the topic of discussion when I read a hell of a cool title: "Personal Protection Wolves"... sort of animal version of "honest politician"...


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Marta Haus said:


> Yes I saw some thing about that too in one of the articles I read. Even if this was a viable option it sounds like the end result would be a kennel animal, not a suburban house pet that carries your groceries for you and magically becomes a fearless protector if you say a special word.


There is also the issue of laws, statutes, ordinances. In WI a wolf hybrid is a "dangerous wild animal" and there is a bunch of red tape to keep one.


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