# pup lost it's voice



## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

I have a new pup and as long as it is out of the create it is fine but close the door and it starts barking. It will go in the create be it self, even lay down and sleep but close the door and it barks for I know last night for 6-7 hours. I’m not talking wining but a full constant bark. I picked him up Friday and have had two sleepless night but today I had to go to work and when I came home he had barked or strained his voice that he can not bark. 
Any ideas on how to work this out or help his voice? Any treatment for strained vocal cords? He is only 8 weeks old.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

maybe i'm a hard-ass, but if i had a pup that barked himself hoarse due to being crated, i'd say "thank heavens, i can get some sleep".

with that said, i want to add that before i'd ignore that kind of barking in an 8 wk old pup, i would be sure he'd been out to eliminate before being crated. and i mean both pee & poop. 

i would also do EVERYTHING i could to ensure he wasn't crated for that consecutive amount of time--he just came to you, he's having some separation issues, and he's stuck in a crate. get him out, let him pee, etc. every couple of hours. you're his hero/savior/friend--use it!!!

it sounds (haha) like he's comfortable in the crate. after play/elimination,put him in,close the door (do NOT make big deal of this), let him be for 2 hrs. bring him outside to pee, etc....rinse, repeat.

i CANNOT believe i just responded to this post.....spring fever, ok?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gerald Dunn said:


> I came home he had barked or strained his voice that he can not bark.
> Any ideas on how to work this out or help his voice?
> Perfect.
> If it starts barking again roll the crate over 360 degrees, do it once for every bark.


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## Gena Ratcliff (Mar 10, 2012)

What Ann said... An 8 wk old puppy isn't going to sleep thru the night, nor should it be left alone all day in a crate. 

For each month of age, it can last an hour between needing to go out, so 2 months old - someone should be taking that pup out to eliminate and get lots of positive reinforcement every 2 hours. It's a baby and has needs much like a human baby when that young.

Also you might consider putting the crate in the room with you so it's not alone. Wear a tshirt for a few hours and put it in the crate too, to give the pup your scent as comfort.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

What I've found helps is if you want the pup out to sleep in the main part of the house and not your bedroom, sleep on the couch at first with the crate right next to you so the pup can see you for the first day or so. Then over the next few days, move the crate closer to where you eventually want it with you on the couch so the pup can still see you. After 4-5 days of this, the pup has usually gotten over it and will go to sleep on their own. During the day, a pup that age should not be in the crate more than 2-3 hours or so. If it's still cool out, bring your pup to work in your car in the crate (venting the car appropriately, of course) for the first few weeks so you can take the pup out often.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gena Ratcliff said:


> What Ann said... An 8 wk old puppy isn't going to sleep thru the night, nor should it be left alone all day in a crate.
> 
> For each month of age, it can last an hour between needing to go out, so 2 months old - someone should be taking that pup out to eliminate and get lots of positive reinforcement every 2 hours. It's a baby and has needs much like a human baby when that young.
> 
> Also you might consider putting the crate in the room with you so it's not alone. Wear a tshirt for a few hours and put it in the crate too, to give the pup your scent as comfort.


 
I wont say you are wrong because I don’t have a lot of experience. But the few pups I had I got at about 8 or 10 weeks. Ill just say my experience has been much different. No peeps ever and very rarely have they pissed the crate within 6 hours. Pups are rarely kept in a crate during the day.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> What I've found helps is if you want the pup out to sleep in the main part of the house and not your bedroom, sleep on the couch at first with the crate right next to you so the pup can see you for the first day or so. Then over the next few days, move the crate closer to where you eventually want it with you on the couch so the pup can still see you. After 4-5 days of this, the pup has usually gotten over it and will go to sleep on their own. During the day, a pup that age should not be in the crate more than 2-3 hours or so. If it's still cool out, bring your pup to work in your car in the crate (venting the car appropriately, of course) for the first few weeks so you can take the pup out often.


 
I don’t get it, I put the pup in a crate in the garage at night and never heard a noise, and I would if they made one. Should you really get a pup if you’re working all day? Your going to get them fired with your bring to work advice


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> I don’t get it, I put the pup in a crate in the garage at night and never heard a noise, and I would if they made one. Should you really get a pup if you’re working all day? Your going to get them fired with your bring to work advice


Why would it get them fired? I haven't had to do this with my current pup since I work from home, but I've done this with two previous pups. Most people who work 8-10 hours get two short breaks and a lunch. Should be plenty of time to walk out to the car and let the pup out for a quick break or even a little training. Then by the time the pup is about 3 or 4 months or so, you can leave the pup at home and run home at lunch to let the pup out.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I thought you do your own things for work?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

I had a formal complaint made against me by some turd for taking my pup to work. Boss felt bad about having to relay the complaint on.

I stopped doing free overtime and went home on breaks instead of working through them as I normally would. 

Employers gotta consider a bit of work life balance to get more productivity from their people sometimes. Not like many of us have a pup all the time.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

I had a formal complaint made against me by some turd for taking my pup to work. Boss felt bad about having to relay the complaint on.

I stopped doing free overtime and went home on breaks instead of working through them as I normally would. 

Employers gotta consider a bit of work life balance to get more productivity from their people sometimes. Not like many of us have a pup all the time.


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## Gena Ratcliff (Mar 10, 2012)

There are usually dog walkers/dog sitters that can do the hours you are at work. It costs a bit depending on where you are but a good alternative if the weather or work environment doesn't allow for pup at work.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

Bit funny this on a few levels firstly i have never had a 8 week pup behave in crate straight up they usually need to be near you in the crate for a few days at least and secondly i never seen a pup who would bark like that most carry on for a while then get tired and lay down and sleep 8 week olds usually eat play sleep and repeat so if he barking for that long id be concerned somethings up or if you dont stop it he might start a pattern.I would keep him close in crate if he carries on talk to him to settle him and persist for a bit and if that doesnt work i would scold him if he has played fed and pooped.

As for the voice im sure it will come back?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> I thought you do your own things for work?


Before this pup, the last pup I had was 5 years ago, right before I started vet school, so as I said...



> *I haven't had to do this with my current pup since I work from home,* but I've done this with two previous pups...


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Before this pup, the last pup I had was 5 years ago, right before I started vet school, so as I said...


 
So you only had two pups in five years and your telling people how to raise one. And didn’t you say you kinda had to try and do your own thing because you didn’t have any good job offers? Is any of this adding up for you? :-k


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

OMG, chris, get off it would you??? how many pups have YOU had/housebroken in the past 5 years ?? no issues? they were all outside dogs and didn't need housebreaking??

address the issue at hand, would you? it's not anyone's particular method, ok? it's how to deal with the OP's issue, and if you have something salient to add, ie, if you don't have anything to add that's helpful, STHU. as my dad used to say.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Gerald: You've gotten a lot of good advise, though differing, it's all good. What kind of pup?


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## Ariel Peldunas (Oct 18, 2008)

Good advice, Maren. I tried the "cry it out" method with my first pup. Looking back, I feel bad. She was ripped away from her mother and littermates and shut on a dark porch by herself. I have used your method with my pups since then. It's a bit inconvenient for the first month or so, but they have all slept peacefully and enjoy being in their crates. The only time they make noise is when they have to go out. I also have brought my pups to work and never had anyone give me any trouble. I make sure they have plenty of water and ventilation. In the event I can't take them, I have set up an exercise pen inside a baby pool and put a top on it. Not that I want to encourage going to the bathroom inside, but I would rather them be able to go to the bathroom and be able to stay out of it rather than learn to be dirty if they can't hold it. They are still babies, you know.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

ann schnerre said:


> OMG, chris, get off it would you??? how many pups have YOU had/housebroken in the past 5 years ?? no issues? they were all outside dogs and didn't need housebreaking??
> 
> address the issue at hand, would you? it's not anyone's particular method, ok? it's how to deal with the OP's issue, and if you have something salient to add, ie, if you don't have anything to add that's helpful, STHU. as my dad used to say.


Not a ton of pups but way more than 2, right no real issues, and right again they were all outside dogs the first house they seen from the inside was mine. Very minimal house breaking. Ill write it all off as luck. 
As far as how to deal with the OPs issue it doesn’t look like he has the time for the pup so he should give it back. Once again things are not the dogs fault but the owners. JMO


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Holy sheet, I just checked the OP, dude u need a fluffy stuffed dog, u got no business owning a real one, hope it busts out and kills you in yr sleep.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> So you only had two pups in five years and your telling people how to raise one. And didn’t you say you kinda had to try and do your own thing because you didn’t have any good job offers? Is any of this adding up for you? :-k


Obvious troll is obvious. Out of the 6 dogs I've had as an adult (had more as a kid), 3 were pups, 3 were adults I got as rescues/shelter dogs. I've also crate trained DOZENS of foster dogs, mostly adults but an occasional older pup. So yes, I have done my fair share of crate training, thanks! :roll:


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

with ya on this one, peter.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Obvious troll is obvious. Out of the 6 dogs I've had as an adult (had more as a kid), 3 were pups, 3 were adults I got as rescues/shelter dogs. I've also crate trained DOZENS of foster dogs, mostly adults but an occasional older pup. So yes, I have done my fair share of crate training, thanks! :roll:


What do you mean by crate training? Think about it, “ Ive also crate trained DOZENS of foster dogs” what does that mean to you? Putting an adult dog in a crate? I don’t get it. I don’t see putting adult dog inn a crate as training? Dogs in a crate so they don’t piss or trash the house to be considered training? To me getting a dog to understand not to trash or piss the house while he is out of a crate is training. The dog may go in a crate here and there if he has not learned to be reliable enough to leave out if I must leave the house. But except for very rare instances no training is being performed when a dog is in a crate. Everyone on this site seems to like comparing dogs to people and pups to babies and mention how pups need attention like babies. There retards, would you lock a baby in a crate (well maybe) a better one is would locking a teenager in a closet training?.... Ok maybe again. Pups have so few needs to Babies you cant even compare unless you’re a basket case or something. But isn’t this just punishment if done to a person? I am not trying to punish a pup when putting him in a crate. If he did something wrong when he was out it was my fault for not watching and redirecting or correcting to fix the issue. When I get a pup the goal is to get it to be able to function within the house hold without screwing things up as soon as I can. Maybe that is what you call crate training but I just don’t see it that way. For every minute the dog is in the crate it’s a wasted minute of training possibly even setting them back a bit. Maybe I am just misunderstanding something again?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

ann schnerre said:


> with ya on this one, peter.


 
What kinda dog is it?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

One that is a puppy that is locked in a crate going insane cos the owner evidently lacks sufficient knowledge,is either plain lazy or has a lifestyle that doesn't accommodate responsible dog ownership.

Hope i'm wrong.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> One that is a puppy that is locked in a crate going insane cos the owner evidently lacks sufficient knowledge,is either plain lazy or has a lifestyle that doesn't accommodate responsible dog ownership.
> 
> Hope i'm wrong.


LOL, oh well Yes lets hope your wrong. You might be you know


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

ann schnerre said:


> OMG, chris, get off it would you??? how many pups have YOU had/housebroken in the past 5 years ?? no issues? they were all outside dogs and didn't need housebreaking??
> 
> address the issue at hand, would you? it's not anyone's particular method, ok? it's how to deal with the OP's issue, and if you have something salient to add, ie, if you don't have anything to add that's helpful, STHU. as my dad used to say.


 
YAY Ann!!!!!


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> YAY Ann!!!!!


i get a hair in an "uncomfortable" position once in a while....:-o


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> What kinda dog is it?


who cares? it has nothing to do with the "ISSUE"...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

ann schnerre said:


> who cares? it has nothing to do with the "ISSUE"...


Except some breeds are more inclined to yap until hoarse than others! Not saying it would effect the way I handled the situation, but I would like to know too. 

Incidently, I too have raised my share of puppies and also crate them in the house at night. The young ones I do let out for elimination every couple hours, stretching out the time as they get older. For particularly obnoxiously loud and persistant barkers, I find it easier to put them in a very quiet room in a crate, the less sound & sight stimulation for the pup (when I want it to be quiet), the better and the quicker I find they quiet. For the young ones, I ignore their barking because it's easier for me. With no reaction to their barking (no one comes in, no one talks to them), they learn pretty quickly that crying,barking, howling has no reward other than wha tever they derive from it themselves.

With my pups at least, I try to get them to understand as quickly as possible that daytime is for playing, rabble rousing, barking and training, nighttime is for quiet and sleeping.
;-)


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

delete please, sorry.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> What do you mean by crate training? Think about it, “ Ive also crate trained DOZENS of foster dogs” what does that mean to you? Putting an adult dog in a crate? I don’t get it. I don’t see putting adult dog inn a crate as training? Dogs in a crate so they don’t piss or trash the house to be considered training? To me getting a dog to understand not to trash or piss the house while he is out of a crate is training. The dog may go in a crate here and there if he has not learned to be reliable enough to leave out if I must leave the house. But except for very rare instances no training is being performed when a dog is in a crate. Everyone on this site seems to like comparing dogs to people and pups to babies and mention how pups need attention like babies. *There retards*, would you lock a baby in a crate (well maybe) a better one is would locking a teenager in a closet training?.... Ok maybe again. Pups have so few needs to Babies you cant even compare unless you’re a basket case or something. But isn’t this just punishment if done to a person? I am not trying to punish a pup when putting him in a crate. If he did something wrong when he was out it was my fault for not watching and redirecting or correcting to fix the issue. When I get a pup the goal is to get it to be able to function within the house hold without screwing things up as soon as I can. Maybe that is what you call crate training but I just don’t see it that way. For every minute the dog is in the crate it’s a wasted minute of training possibly even setting them back a bit. Maybe I am just misunderstanding something again?


:lol::lol::lol:


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Except some breeds are more inclined to yap until hoarse than others! Not saying it would effect the way I handled the situation, but I would like to know too.
> 
> Incidently, I too have raised my share of puppies and also crate them in the house at night. The young ones I do let out for elimination every couple hours, stretching out the time as they get older. For particularly obnoxiously loud and persistant barkers, I find it easier to put them in a very quiet room in a crate, the less sound & sight stimulation for the pup (when I want it to be quiet), the better and the quicker I find they quiet.
> 
> ...


oh, all RIGHT, susan! seriously, good point. crating in a quiet place initially is what i've found effective for my pups as well. 

one of the most effective strategies i've found for the yakkers is that they don't get attention/out until they shut up. for this to be really effective, however, one must understand the "yakking" language, ie, is the pup just running it's mouth, or is it truly trying to tell you it needs to go out?

that's the secret to me, along with body language--read your pup. it's just hard to put into words.....


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

OK, he is a Mal, first born, and per the breeder always got the biggest tit 

this was the first litter for them in three years, I was on the list for seven months for a pup
I retire on Aug 1st and there is no one else at home, It is to cold to leave outside or in a car at work if they would even let me
the pup is not in the pen except to sleep all other times he goes in and drinks and even lays down
the barking only starts when the door is closed, walk back to the pen and he stops waiting for you to open the door

I did get some sleep last night 

thanks to most of you for understanding that I work to feed my dogs
I spent 17 hrs. on the road last Friday to get this pup


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Everyone on this site seems to like comparing dogs to people and pups to babies and mention how pups need attention like babies. There retards, would you lock a baby in a crate (well maybe) a better one is would locking a teenager in a closet training?....


 
*I think your perception of people on this site is whacked out. As a matter of fact, it seems to me the majority of people on this board have little patience for the "pet set" who anthropomorphize their dogs. *

*It's funny (not funny haha, funny odd) how you and one other person who frequents this site, like to make unfounded and bizarre (mis)characterizations and digs about the majority of members of this message board. You two seem rather bitter.*

*Of course, I could be wrong, and if I am I have no doubt you can provide some back up to your claim....but I'm not going to hold my breath. *

*Have a great day, see ya later!*
:-D


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Gerald Dunn said:


> I have a new pup and as long as it is out of the create it is fine but close the door and it starts barking. It will go in the create be it self, even lay down and sleep but close the door and it barks for I know last night for 6-7 hours. I’m not talking wining but a full constant bark. I picked him up Friday and have had two sleepless night but today I had to go to work and when I came home he had barked or strained his voice that he can not bark.
> Any ideas on how to work this out or help his voice? Any treatment for strained vocal cords? He is only 8 weeks old.


I wouldn't worry about the vocal chords. I have had pups do this too, with no permanent injury. I was happy actually because it allowed me to sleep & pups quickly learn barking is not the answer...though it doesn't seem quick when you're going through it. 

I do agree with those who say 6-7 hours is a little too long he probably needs to eliminate, at least pee every couple hours or so.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> :lol::lol::lol:


We went over the Retard and Retart thing a few thousand posts ago and the their, there’s etc.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> *I think your perception of people on this site is whacked out. As a matter of fact, it seems to me the majority of people on this board have little patience for the "pet set" who anthropomorphize their dogs. *
> 
> *It's funny (not funny haha, funny odd) how you and one other person who frequents this site, like to make unfounded and bizarre (mis)characterizations and digs about the majority of members of this message board. You two seem rather bitter.*
> 
> ...



OK out with it!!! Who is the other person????:-D


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> We went over the Retard and Retart thing a few thousand posts ago and the their, there’s etc.


Ironic troll is ironic. :lol::lol::lol:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> *I think your perception of people on this site is whacked out. As a matter of fact, it seems to me the majority of people on this board have little patience for the "pet set" who anthropomorphize their dogs. *
> 
> *It's funny (not funny haha, funny odd) how you and one other person who frequents this site, like to make unfounded and bizarre (mis)characterizations and digs about the majority of members of this message board. You two seem rather bitter.*
> 
> ...


 
A huge vast majority of us on this site are the pet set. Do you really think what you do is really that much different than what Vicky does. Every couple of weekends having your dog play tug with a sleeve really doesn’t make for working dog category. Maren and everyone else busting Vicky are just hypocrites, Except Jen. Maren is bragging about walking over balls and other distractions, I mean come on.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> A huge vast majority of us on this site are the pet set. Do you really think what you do is really that much different than what Vicky does. Every couple of weekends having your dog play tug with a sleeve really doesn’t make for working dog category. Maren and everyone else busting Vicky are just hypocrites, Except Jen. Maren is bragging about walking over balls and other distractions, I mean come on.


I only jumped Vick for posting on the "no guts section". There is nothing as good as a brewing flame war. IMO.:grin:


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> A huge vast majority of us on this site are the pet set. Do you really think what you do is really that much different than what Vicky does. Every couple of weekends having your dog play tug with a sleeve really doesn’t make for working dog category. Maren and everyone else busting Vicky are just hypocrites, Except Jen. Maren is bragging about walking over balls and other distractions, I mean come on.


Of course, heeling past high level distractions would be no problem at all for a backyard champion such as yourself. Got any more video of your dogs walking on pallets or really poor decoy work with your stressed out pup? 





(I'm just happy I don't trip over the distraction items) \\/


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> A huge vast majority of us on this site are the pet set. Do you really think what you do is really that much different than what Vicky does. Every couple of weekends having your dog play tug with a sleeve really doesn’t make for working dog category. Maren and everyone else busting Vicky are just hypocrites, Except Jen. Maren is bragging about walking over balls and other distractions, I mean come on.


hahaha is that what I do????? Play tug with a sleeve every couple of weekends? You are so unbelievably clueless. Once more you show your ass and your stupidity. Oh well at least you're good at something.

Bringing Vickie into this conversation is about as fumble footed an attempt at redirecting I've ever seen since it has NOTHING to do with your idiotic statement about the majority of members anthropomorphizing. 

Anyway, I know reading comprehension is difficult for you, so once again I ask you to prove your moronic statement that most of the members here think their dogs are people or babies, and treat them as such. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ha, got tons of video that is to secret to post. Your just mad you couldn’t get yourself up on the pallets. :razz::-#


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Groovy, it's heating up now!!!!:lol:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Ha, got tons of video that is to secret to post. Your just mad you couldn’t get yourself up on the pallets. :razz::-#


I was going to ask you what you're talking about but decided against it since everyone knows it's probably about as important and relevant as the rest of the nonsense you dribble out.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Gerald Dunn said:


> It is to cold to leave outside or in a car at work if they would even let me.


Gerald, don't let these guys get to you too much. There's not much wrong with containing a pup in a crate when you aren't around to supervise it. 8 hours is a long time for a little guy like that though. Anyway, where do you live that it's too cold to take this pup to work with you? I don't know that your employer would take issue with you having a pup in your car any more than they would if you had a spare tire in the trunk. 

Well... I suppose unless it sat out there and yapped for hours on end. Then I'd put the car in the corner of the lot, give it something safe and interesting to chew on while I am gone and make a point take the pup out on breaks and during my lunch. 

Puppies can be a bit of a bitch. I slept with the mastiff for the first 3 or so weeks she was here. Course she was very easy going so if she got up in the middle of the night out she went and back to bed she came with a toy to keep her busy till she fell back to sleep. The snipe all but disappears when she goes into the kennel and has done so since the day she arrived. I brought her kennel in and set it on the floor by my bed which is where she slept for the first week. Then I moved her out to the garage. There weren't any issues once I relocated her.

I am with the others who said they wouldn't let this become a habit. I don't like any kind of frantic, neurotic, weird shit from my dogs and make a point to promptly put an end to anything that might become useless or destructive behavior later on if left unchecked.

Good luck and congrats on your new pup.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

And let the record show that *YOU* Chris, were the one trying to slide in yet another nasty little bullshit dig against all the members of this board with your ridculous statement about the membership treating their dogs like babies, *NOT *Maren, not me, not anyone else, just *YOU. *And this subject has less than nothing to do with Vickie so don't even start. Bringing her into this was just you looking to keep up your pissing fight with Maren. I tell you what - I bet most of the membership are tired of you and your buddies knee jerk pissy asshole reaction to just about anything Maren says. I know I sure as hell am.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Nicole why u baby talkin him, he locks his pup up way more than is remotely reasonable.

Got a dog, do right by it or give it to someone who will.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> tired of you and your buddies knee jerk pissy asshole reaction


ha ha, for a minute I thought you wrote pussy, not pissy. I said, damn the only thing she left out of that string of words was ****. \\/ Yeah, I admit it, I don't have anything better to do at the moment. Sorry guys. :-#


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Nicole why u baby talkin him, he locks his pup up way more than is remotely reasonable.
> 
> Got a dog, do right by it or give it to someone who will.


Pete that's just the kind of nagging crap that has reduced this forum to what it's become. Let's sit and talk circles for days about pups in crates rather than give this guy some advice worth working with. You may as well just say "I got nothing", neither helps anybody out. There's not many people that use crates and feel "good" about using them for containment purposes. As with anything they can be a useful tool like when I use mine to haul them 27 miles each way in order to get them out to my cabin in the winter. Sure, many probably use them more than they should. But whatever, that's not for me to judge. I got enough of my own shiznit to worry about than to fantasize over people who raise up dogs that are confined to some or even a large extent to a crate.

Here's a different perspective. I was 19 and dating a guy who had a young pitty pup that he locked in the bathroom when he went to work. Some might think great, at least it's easy to clean up and he has room to move around during the day. Right.... I came home one day to see him drag that puppy out of the bathroom after he tore it to hell. He then proceeded to pin him down between his legs, basically sitting on this 7 week old puppy, and by the time I managed to kick that asshole as hard as I could in the ribs he had forcibly punched that puppy several times in the head, which wasn't much bigger than a large apple. 

This is reality Pete, there are people who do crap like that to their puppies or dogs to keep them in check so to speak. So, if a crate reduces the possibility of that from happening and/or if the pup needs to hold his eliminations longer than anyone thinks is desirable so be it. Who am I to judge on what his situation is that requires this? He also acknowledged that he will be retiring in a few months so all of that is a fairly moot point as far as I am concerned.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> hahaha is that what I do????? Play tug with a sleeve every couple of weekends? You are so unbelievably clueless. Once more you show your ass and your stupidity. Oh well at least you're good at something.
> 
> Bringing Vickie into this conversation is about as fumble footed an attempt at redirecting I've ever seen since it has NOTHING to do with your idiotic statement about the majority of members anthropomorphizing.
> 
> Anyway, I know reading comprehension is difficult for you, so once again I ask you to prove your moronic statement that most of the members here think their dogs are people or babies, and treat them as such. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT.


 
Ya its what you do, you might do it more than every few weekends but it is what you do. 
Why do I need to redirect anything?
And over the last few days I know of at least two statements made referring to pups as babies. I don’t know by whom and am not going to look but its there. If I cared enough to prove you wrong id look


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> And let the record show that *YOU* Chris, were the one trying to slide in yet another nasty little bullshit dig against all the members of this board with your ridculous statement about the membership treating their dogs like babies, *NOT *Maren, not me, not anyone else, just *YOU. *And this subject has less than nothing to do with Vickie so don't even start. Bringing her into this was just you looking to keep up your pissing fight with Maren. I tell you what - I bet most of the membership are tired of you and your buddies knee jerk pissy asshole reaction to just about anything Maren says. I know I sure as hell am.


Yes most members including myself. A bit sensitive are you? You can exclude yourself with the others who seem to think they meet the minimum requirements to do so of being called pet owners.


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## Gena Ratcliff (Mar 10, 2012)

As one of the newbies to the forum, and the one that had the audacity to use the terms baby and puppy in the same sentence in this topic, I find the derogatory judgements, the bullying, and piling-on done by a few of the members to be not only detrimental to the forum as a whole, but downright infantile.

I came to this forum to learn about the many working dog sports available... I did not come to the forum to re-live the juvenile days of high school. 

If I (or anyone else) ask a question it's because I (we) are interested in learning. I am not interested in being called names, having my dog called useless or any of the other bs that passes for conversation. I have a great sense of humor but there are many here that cross the line with personal attacks for no other reason than their own entertainment. If you don't have positive relevant input it would be best if you say nothing at all.

Going back to lurking - Gena


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Here you are Susan I didn’t even have to look. But you win Susan you have a working dog and what you do really isn’t a game. You can have the last words


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Nicole I wouldn't read a post that long even if was the complete unabridged metrosexual manifesto on how to pull chicks these days with a written guarantee.





Nicole Stark said:


> Pete that's just the kind of nagging crap that has reduced this forum to what it's become. Let's sit and talk circles for days about pups in crates rather than give this guy some advice worth working with. You may as well just say "I got nothing", neither helps anybody out. There's not many people that use crates and feel "good" about using them for containment purposes. As with anything they can be a useful tool like when I use mine to haul them 27 miles each way in order to get them out to my cabin in the winter. Sure, many probably use them more than they should. But whatever, that's not for me to judge. I got enough of my own shiznit to worry about than to fantasize over people who raise up dogs that are confined to some or even a large extent to a crate.
> 
> Here's a different perspective. I was 19 and dating a guy who had a young pitty pup that he locked in the bathroom when he went to work. Some might think great, at least it's easy to clean up and he has room to move around during the day. Right.... I came home one day to see him drag that puppy out of the bathroom after he tore it to hell. He then proceeded to pin him down between his legs, basically sitting on this 7 week old puppy, and by the time I managed to kick that asshole as hard as I could in the ribs he had forcibly punched that puppy several times in the head, which wasn't much bigger than a large apple.
> 
> This is reality Pete, there are people who do crap like that to their puppies or dogs to keep them in check so to speak. So, if a crate reduces the possibility of that from happening and/or if the pup needs to hold his eliminations longer than anyone thinks is desirable so be it. Who am I to judge on what his situation is that requires this? He also acknowledged that he will be retiring in a few months so all of that is a fairly moot point as far as I am concerned.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Nicole I wouldn't read a post that long even if was the complete unabridged metrosexual manifesto on how to pull chicks these days with a written guarantee.


 
 Now that’s funny


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Nicole I wouldn't read a post that long even if was the complete unabridged metrosexual manifesto on how to pull chicks these days with a written guarantee.


Maybe you should. Perspective is everything. All I am saying is not everything in life fits into nice tidy ideals. There's perception and someplace along the way reality takes over.

Oh and Chris, not that you didn't know this but I am a working dog poser too. I don't like being new at this game or having fairly limited resources to work with my dog (the Dutch) in the manner she needs to be. It's a frustrating process to say the least and I have purposely kept it dialed back so I don't go head long into screwing up my dog to the point of no return with bad training. As it is, I seem to manage to do a bit of that anyway and I regret it every time it happens. 

Thinking back, I realize now how naive I was to think that when the time came that I could draw from the membership on this forum to provide me with some insight and direction along the way. Hard to deny the truth (I don't know what the hell I am going), though I am sure I could find some way to convince myself that everything is going just as planned.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

How about reality that no pup should be left to rot in a crate for 6 hours straight, what the hell u smoking?

If the OP is so retarded he has to even ask then **** him and the camel he rode in on.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Ya its what you do, you might do it more than every few weekends but it is what you do.
> Why do I need to redirect anything?
> And over the last few days I know of at least two statements made referring to pups as babies. I don’t know by whom and am not going to look but its there. If I cared enough to prove you wrong id look


 
No, it's not what I do you dumb fuctard. 

Oh TWO statements??????? WELL I guess in your tiny little mind that must prove that a majority of members baby their dogs or treat them as if they are human. What a joke you are.

If you had a brain at least you might be entertaining. As it is you are nothing but tedious, tiresome, and exceedingly clueless. Anyway say whatever you want, I'm going back to ignoring your dumbass.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> How about reality that no pup should be left to rot in a crate for 6 hours straight, what the hell u smoking?


Smoking hot is what I think they call it. Yeah buddy! Ok, I'm really not but that was kinda funny anyway. $100 bucks says he's considering options and will make some adjustments to rectify the situation with this pup.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Fuctard, I like that, the WDF classic retort, introduced that word around here (offline land) catchin on nicely.

Metro's dont seem to have embraced it tho, whats up with them?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Originally Posted by *Gerald Dunn* http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f52/pup-lost-its-voice-23620-post332327/#post332327
_It is to cold to leave outside or in a car at work if they would even let me._
Gerald, this is the answer I would expect from most people who are employed regarding taking a dog to work? Although there may be place that may allow it and im not against it-it really won’t work very well. Overall its just not a bright idea. I would think it would just snow ball into several employees spending more time than they should hanging out with the pup. I think we could all be guilty of this. But didn’t you say you were retiring soon! This may allow for you to, well you know kinda take the dog to work! 

As far as it being to cold a pup in a crate in a car can be comfortable in some pretty cold weather. I don’t have hard data on this but I have seen pups/ dogs getting hot in cars on sunny 35 degree days.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Nicole Stark said:


> Smoking hot is what I think they call it. Yeah buddy! Ok, I'm really not but that was kinda funny anyway. $100 bucks says he's considering options and will make some adjustments to rectify the situation with this pup.


 Hope yr right.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

and another thread spirals out of control...hopefully it'll self-immolate soon.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Gerald Dunn said:


> I have a new pup and as long as it is out of the create it is fine but close the door and it starts barking. It will go in the create be it self, even lay down and sleep but close the door and it barks for I know last night for 6-7 hours. I’m not talking wining but a full constant bark. I picked him up Friday and have had two sleepless night but today I had to go to work and when I came home he had barked or strained his voice that he can not bark.
> Any ideas on how to work this out or help his voice? Any treatment for strained vocal cords? He is only 8 weeks old.


Wow! This must be your first pup. Who lets an 8wk old pup (baby), bark (cry) for 6-7hrs?! OMG, poor thing! Please, use some of the suggestions already given. I put the pups crate in or near my room. I make sure when they whine they go outside to be toiletted, and/or I place something I've worn in the crate w/ them for comfort. Or, as Chris suggested, you may not have the time and/or resources to raise the pup. Consider returning it. Poor thing.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Zakia Days said:


> Wow! This must be your first pup. Who lets an* 8wk old pup (baby), bark (cry) for 6-7hrs?!* OMG, poor thing! Please, use some of the suggestions already given. I put the pups crate in or near my room. I make sure when they whine they go outside to be toiletted, and/or I place something I've worn in the crate w/ them for comfort. Or, as Chris suggested, you may not have the time and/or resources to raise the pup. Consider returning it. Poor thing.


Sorry Chris. I'm one of those people:mrgreen:.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

If you have a 15 minute break, you go out to your car, let the pup out to potty and put them back in the crate. Don't go over your allotted break time and don't make a big production (i.e.-bring them in for everyone to pet). The goal is not to do this for the rest of the dog's life, but until they reach about 3 months or so and can hold it for a few more hours where you can run home for lunch. To vent the car properly, crack the windows slightly and use one of these if you have a rear tailgate: 

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=879&ParentCat=255

Around freezing is definitely not too cold for an 8 week old pup to be in a crate, especially if you use a crate cover like these (there are less expensive ones out there as well that are not insulated):

http://www.basspro.com/Classic-Accessories-Insulated-Kennel-Jacket/product/35192/75805

I'd prefer it to be cooler than warmer. Obviously if you work in a bad part of town, this would not work if you feel someone is going to break into your car, but this has worked well for me for two previous pups until they were old enough to hold it until I had time for a lunch break and could run home.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> I had a formal complaint made against me by some turd for taking my pup to work. Boss felt bad about having to relay the complaint on.
> 
> I stopped doing free overtime and went home on breaks instead of working through them as I normally would.
> 
> Employers gotta consider a bit of work life balance to get more productivity from their people sometimes. Not like many of us have a pup all the time.


 
I took one of mine to work on a 50 degree day [pouring rain all day] so I could check on him after having him at the vet the day before and someone in one of the other businesses called the cops. They were worried about him. The cop was pretty embarrassed. Like CM said, my pups sleep through the night at 8 weeks---at least 6 hours. 

When I raise a litter, I crate train during the day starting off with a couple of hours. They are already used to being separated from their litter. By 8 weeks, they can sleep through the night and there is no crying or whining. You have to schedule the food and water. I don't like to feed them after 6 and no water after 8:00 p.m. We go out multiple times between 8 and midnight. Crate is always next to my bed. I pick a day I'm home for crate time in a room that I'm not occupying and some evenings for puppies I didn't raise. 

T


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Zakia Days said:


> Sorry Chris. I'm one of those people:mrgreen:.


Its ok nothing several years of intense therapy cant fix. 
This board is full of your kind there are many more baby comments on here. Susan must just read the bad as working dog comments :roll:


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## Gena Ratcliff (Mar 10, 2012)

You get ticketed in CA, or at least bay area where I was, if you leave your dog in the car.


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## jim stevens (Jan 30, 2012)

Back to the original question. My dad was a hound man, and I've seen foxhounds lose their voice almost totally. Their voice came back somewhat, but wasn't the same as it was before. It was pretty noticeable, since we were often running them at night and identifying them by their voice.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

What was the original question??


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

If you saw a dog in a car would you call the cops?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> If you saw a dog in a car would you call the cops?


I had my dog crated in my jeep at my GF's for a few hours, windows were down, wasnt hot out, the dog was quiet.

the cops showed up, one of the neighbors called, when they saw me put her in the crate, after letting her out to pee and get a drink...

people do it all the time...police even had me convinced it is illegal to have a dog in the vehicle, said it is fine to do if you are just shopping or whatever, but not for more than an hour or so, of course when I asked what the statue was, or what it actually says, they had no clue, and said if I didnt take the dog out of the vehicle, they would just call animal control to come out.... I moved the dog....


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

What you talking about Joby? You seem to have a lot of stories did this stuff actually happen or… you know do you just think it happened because you were doing recreational things? 8-[


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> What you talking about Joby? You seem to have a lot of stories did this stuff actually happen or… you know do you just think it happened because you were doing recreational things? 8-[


yeah it happened man...

this was on Halloween in 2010....I remember it distinctly because the cop was knocking on the door and I was yelling at him, from the couch...

"Go away! NO candy, can't you read the sign on the door?"......and he just kept knocking..louder and louder, and finally yelled "Park City Police, open the door!!! NOW"...

we were a little surprised by that one...LOL


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

That’s funny, are you sure you were just eating candy. No mushrooms or nothing? Are you really really sure it happed?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> That’s funny, are you sure you were just eating candy. No mushrooms or nothing? Are you really really sure it happed?


lol yes...

same thing happened in this town about 10 years ago when I had 3 dogs in my minivan...and spent the night at a girls house...
dogs spent the night in the van...when I let them out after I woke up...I looked out the window about 20 minutes later and there was 2 cop cars and police looking in my van, they actually had the door open and everything..

difference was, that was an apartment complex, with strict animal rules, one being NO animals in vehicles...rules are rules, I can respect that,, but made up rules or laws, I cannot....unless they want to get animal control involved LOL...


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