# Tracking in Snow or Not



## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Should I practice tracking in the snow, or do you think the dog would get used to "seeing" the track instead of smelling it. Ive heard both, but was wondering what the general consensus was on here


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

If the dog is not new to tracking, then yes.

I have had some really good dogs get really lost in the right conditions. The snow was crusty, and I couldn't tell you what happened. There were footprints that were old in the area, but the track wasn't that old and it was snowing lightly. 

Didn't always happen, but it did happen.

New snow I didn't have so many problems.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

todd pavlus said:


> Should I practice tracking in the snow, or do you think the dog would get used to "seeing" the track instead of smelling it. Ive heard both, but was wondering what the general consensus was on here


Todd if you don't want to pass under ANY and ALL conditions. How many trials are done in bad weather? Practice in the weather you might have to face. Rain, snow, heat...you see it.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Our club does not advocate tracking in the winter. It is very cold- today it is suppose to be 8 degrees. 

We usually start back up as soon as break up hits (late April). The dogs do not forget. We have our first trial in July and those members who actually track a few times a weeks do well. I think my TD new dog did an 88 (missed an article in his SchH 1) and then did a 98 in his SchH2. He had a great first year foundation done during the summer and skipped the winter. The dog was not even 2 yet.

I will occationally go tracking in the winter if it warms up and I can find a place where the snow is not deep. Parking lots after a 2-3' powder are good if you can get to it before cars ruin it and it is warmer (25-30). 

Good luck,

Julie


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

May be an old wives tale, but my experience is, it's pretty darn accurate. Old snow, very cold, there isn't much odor. As it thaws, the odor is released much like frozen food is good to eat. In a new snow, because of the atmospheric conditions, there is considerable moisture, the moisture holds the scent very well. In addition to the visual, you have a great odor picture. As it freezes, the scent becomes less detectable, until the thaw. I've found that to be pretty accurate.

DFrost


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

> Right on the money David!!


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I also think the dog itself makes a difference. Tracking in potentially unpleasent conditions can be a problem. If a dog is good tracker, has a zest for it more than most. I may do it. But most of the dogs are not this way, Even though I think a lot of handlers would like to think thier dog is one of these dogs. It's unfortunate when they are not and they track the dog in unpleasent conditions often or for to long. The dog can start to dislike tracking. Now you have real problems. If the dog is an average tracker, I will take my chances and be more reserved about tracking the dog in unpleasent conditions. But again I see a lot of people, track thier dog in pleasent conditions, think thier dogs is more than it really it is. Then start making every track hard, and in unpleasent conditions. Then wonder what happened to the great tracker they had. 

My dog in her Sch1 tracked in howling wind and cold rain, and ankle deep mud. She got a 95. only one other dog had passed tracking that day. My dog had never seen those conditions and did just fine. But I have the feeling If I tracked her often in those conditions we may start to have problems.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ditto with David! Old, cold and dry or old, hot and dry makes for hard scenting conditions. 
I think tracking in wet snow, in particular for a beginner, is a great idea. In training you really need to see the track. If you can't see if the dog is correct or not, your going to create a lot of bad habits.
I've always admired the folks that do any type of scent work in the SW USA. Hot and dry!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I think it depends on the dog, too. One training morning, the snow was packed hard and two of the "big Boys" asked me to lay tracks for them and one of them crossed the track once or twice. Their GSDs were not bad but then came my Landseer and worked right through without being fazed by the "crossings". Otherwise he wasn't specially good, especially in the Spring with fresh vegetation.

My Briard on the other hand could even do untidy corners in the snow. I honestly don't think that they always "see" the tracks in cold hard snow. At a trial though in deep snow up in the mountains, he had no trouble (neither did I - there was no question where the corners were).
We've had one good fall of snow already and I'm looking forward to some more. 

I think one of the worst things is if the track is laid on frost ground and before you can work it out, the sun comes out and changes the whole scent of the track. Heavy steady rain can also cause problems but all these things could happen on trial day.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I started my GSD puppy in the snow....It worked Awesome. He has become a great tracker because of that. 

Courtney


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## Andy Larrimore (Jan 8, 2008)

Tracking should be done during all variations of weather as well as at night. It does not matter if it is windy or if another person / vehicle has passed through the area. Tracking is following a specific scent. If your dog is having problems then you should train the problem more until it is no longer a problem. I have seen dogs that were fair weather trackers fail their trial due to not being exposed to bad weather conditions. I would recommend tracking in the snow.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Andy Larrimore said:


> Tracking should be done during all variations of weather as well as at night. It does not matter if it is windy or if another person / vehicle has passed through the area. Tracking is following a specific scent. If your dog is having problems then you should train the problem more until it is no longer a problem. I have seen dogs that were fair weather trackers fail their trial due to not being exposed to bad weather conditions. I would recommend tracking in the snow.


 
If Jeff had Said dog above. He would shoot it, blame it on Schutzhund and use it as proof that Bio Sensor is horse shit.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

well now here's a question for you guys: i (for some reason, probably a female hormonal thing), brought home an 8 wk old GSD pup today, who has his nose to the ground constantly (!!), he actually fought me tonight when he was out on a potty-break when i attempted to pull him off of "something" he had his nose into...

now, IDK if i'll ever trial him in Sch, but may in AKC (more available), but want to train him in FST--what's the best way to do this? his feed in a scent pad? what about when the weather turns really horrible? for 8 wks old, this guy USES his snout! imprinting ideas? i just really don't want to ruin/decrease what he's showing me right now. 

mods--move if you want/need to...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Good article
http://www.finographics.com/schutzhund/tracking/tracking.html

Excellent tracking DVDs
http://www.fleming-plumb.ca/videos.html

The basic TD required by AKC is about on par with the Sch III but longer.
AKC isn't as anal as Sch about the deep nose and perfect corners.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: If Jeff had Said dog above. He would shoot it, blame it on Schutzhund and use it as proof that Bio Sensor is horse shit.

I know where the fault lies with dogs I have trained, and it is me.

However, if you have research that proves that the Bio bullshit works, go ahead and produce it. My research showed me nothing.

However, if the dog was such a piece of crap that it wouldn't track cause it was cold or rainy, then yes, it would get shot.

Why on earth would you want something like that???? LOL

9 billion dogs on the planet, you expect me to own a shitter?????:-D


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Good article
> http://www.finographics.com/schutzhund/tracking/tracking.html
> 
> Excellent tracking DVDs
> ...


Many judges at a club level trial will pass you if your dog finds all the articles and turns and finishes even if it is AKC ish looking.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: If Jeff had Said dog above. He would shoot it, blame it on Schutzhund and use it as proof that Bio Sensor is horse shit.
> 
> I know where the fault lies with dogs I have trained, and it is me.
> 
> ...


 
Jeff, Your research? in the begining of this thread you posted Bio-Sensor covered things up or raised thresholds. That you could not see the real dog. Now you claim it does not work at all. So which one is it?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Many judges at a club level trial will pass you if your dog finds all the articles and turns and finishes even if it is AKC ish looking.


 
Agreed as long as the basics are followed. Dog doesn't go further then a leash length, actively works out the corner, etc.
Even at the higher levels the dog should pass IF it finds all the articles and finishes. 
AKC just makes it a bit easier.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I do claim that it does not work as they say. How hard is that to figure out????

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=bio+sensor+for+puppies&btnG=Search

Just read what the different links are saying about the "super dog" program. LOL


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff, I read your links. I will respond on the Bio sensor. Just to keep things organized.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i can say with confidence, that an 8 wk old pup has NO problem tracking in snow. as of 11-30-08. therefore, he should have no problem the rest of the winter. but what happens when spring/summer comes along-EEEKKK!!!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

ann freier said:


> i can say with confidence, that an 8 wk old pup has NO problem tracking in snow. as of 11-30-08. therefore, he should have no problem the rest of the winter. but what happens when spring/summer comes along-EEEKKK!!!!


Not uncommon that you'll have to go back to basics for just a bit when exposing the dog to new surfaces. It should pick things up quickly though.


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