# dobermanns, the way they should be..



## steve davis (Mar 24, 2009)

steve and jen have done an awesome job with silence..best dobie i've ever seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzrqjVfOjqA


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Looks good on a line all the free bites were back up bites nothing wrong with that however until I see a dobie Take a drive with threat and stick hits and stick a full field full threat attack courage test with out doing a fly-by I cant make a a judgement sorry mang.


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## Erynn Lucas (Dec 10, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Looks good on a line all the free bites were back up bites nothing wrong with that however until I see a dobie Take a drive with threat and stick hits and stick a full field full threat attack courage test with out doing a fly-by I cant make a a judgement sorry mang.


How about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ds0LTaPLxs

Poor quality, but I assure you it is a Doberman.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Erynn Lucas said:


> How about this one?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ds0LTaPLxs
> 
> Poor quality, but I assure you it is a Doberman.


EXELENT smoked him when the got it they got it


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Yeap. Nice dog. Both of them.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That dog should **** everything that even looks close to a Dobermann.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Who is that dog in the second video? I am trying to find some information on him. Is there a website? Breeder?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Anna, if you mean the last video posted, this is the kennel:

http://www.dbzvomedertal.de/cms/

These seem to be serious breeders – they even own a “Racoons”.

Here's another one:

http://www.dbzvomedertal.de/cms/


I recommended them to my girlfriend who will only have Dobermanns but she got one from France, although of German lines. I haven’t seen the latest one in Schutzdienst but she’s been 2-3 times a week since it could walk and changes the helper frequently…

It must be a breed fanaticism. There is nothing wrong about being loyal to the breed of your choice as long as you don’t lose touch with reality.

Last year only one Dobermann competed at the FCI Worlds. IMO, competing only nationally and exclusively in the Breed Club competitions will only further their downfall.

Better a little fish in a big pond than a big fish in a little pond.


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

I have seen some nice dobermans, in particular one dobie bitch.
Wasn't I surprised when I saw another one at AWDF, turns out it was the female's litter mate 



Julie


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

So as not to appear to be a Dobie basher by just posting negative stuff (other thread)...the dog in the second video was the shit. First video wasn't so bad either. I've owned two in the past. A red and a blk/tan, both only pet quality though. I really like the breed.

Howard


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> So as not to appear to be a Dobie basher by just posting negative stuff (other thread)...the dog in the second video was the shit. First video wasn't so bad either. I've owned two in the past. A red and a blk/tan, both only pet quality though. I really like the breed.
> 
> Howard


Still alive heh!!

What I've noticed with my girlfriend's Dobies, they were / are all friendly specimens - no problems on this count.

In my case, it's not a that I want to bash them but I'm sorry to see them disappear from the sport scene without a fight. Let's face it the bodyworks are there, it just needs the nerves to join in.


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## Erynn Lucas (Dec 10, 2008)

Here is the comlpete video of the dog that took down the helper at the IDC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFCd742-V8I


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Not bite work video. This is probably one of my favorite OB performances..Have the video of his Protection routine (a nice routine at that) video somewhere on my old computer. I think he got a 96 or something like that. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8WM5ji_RVg


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

It took me a while to remember the name of the kennel, anyway here they are. Working dobermans near Vancouver, BC.


www.blitzkrieger.com


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Anna Kasho said:


> Who is that dog in the second video? I am trying to find some information on him. Is there a website? Breeder?


Edertal is the Kennel name. I noticed they had something like 10 dogs in the top 20 of the German Dobermann Meisterschaft. One also won the IDC last year. 

The dog mentioned that was in the AWDF was probably Josh Bane's dog from Wustensturm Kennel (Breeder John Kowalczyk). I think the dogs name was Jewal Ha'ras. She failed in the bitework when she would not out, but the judge in his after routine comments said she was one tough bitch. It was out of the B litter Wustensturm breeding. The dam of the litter was Evita v. Dragonerreich Sch3, who V'd in protection many times under some very difficult judges. The sire was Alfred von Haus Mann VPG3, a dog who was very strong in bitework, but did not meet his potential because he was too much dog for his handler. However the litter was co-owned so it is confusing on the litter specifics, because dogs from the same litter had two different kennel names according to which of the co-owners sold the puppy. The other owner died.

John has a brown male from that litter, Bruno. Not trying to take anything away from the dog in the first video, but from what I have seen Bruno is the strongest Dobermann in North America. He probably won't make any podiums becasue he is not really a point dog, especially in tracking. He had no foundation work when he came back to the Kowalzyc's at the age of 18 months. Then life circumstances got in the way of giving him any polish (Tammy, John's wife who handled him broke her ankle, and then they adopted a baby. He did recently get a VPG1. I will be breeding to him on my bitch's next heat cycle.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Adam Rawlings said:


> It took me a while to remember the name of the kennel, anyway here they are. Working dobermans near Vancouver, BC.
> 
> 
> www.blitzkrieger.com


How would we know? Nice lines, but the breeder does nothing with her dogs. Most of the breeding bitch's have never seen a training field or helper.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Steve Burger said:


> How would we know? Nice lines, but the breeder does nothing with her dogs. Most of the breeding bitch's have never seen a training field or helper.


 The site says she stopped training shutzhund and now does protection work, other than that I have no idea about her dogs. I just thought it would be worth checking out for people looking for dobbies.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Most of the breeding bitch's have never seen a training field or helper.

What do you see is the benefit behind training a bitch that is for breeding ???

I do not really care about titling a bitch, she need to prove herself in the brood box. I use a different set of criteria for selection.

I hear people say that they want the bitch to be titled, just do not understand the big deal.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Most of the breeding bitch's have never seen a training field or helper.
> 
> What do you see is the benefit behind training a bitch that is for breeding ???
> 
> ...


IMO, Too many nerve issues with Dobermans not to give strong consideration to both dogs in the breeding combination. I think they need to see some pressure to see what they are made of.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Adam Rawlings said:


> The site says she stopped training shutzhund and now does protection work, other than that I have no idea about her dogs. I just thought it would be worth checking out for people looking for dobbies.


No doubt, there is a lot of good info on the site. However, from what I see, though you may have to have a bit of a thick skin to train Dobies in GSD clubs, I have not seen people ostracized for working a Dobie like she claims. I happen to train at a club in her area, and was a part of another. I find I get a bit of teasing but mostly it is in good fun. 

I have had people tell me that she left Sch clubs partly because of not wanting to adhere to breeding policies, and partly because she had a hard time getting along with people. Don't know if it is true as I was not around then. If a person has the desire to train then it is easy to ignore the trivial bullshit. If you are looking for an excuse not to get off yer ass and train then I guess making the argument you are discriminated against because of the breed you have works as good as any other excuse.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Most of the breeding bitch's have never seen a training field or helper.
> 
> What do you see is the benefit behind training a bitch that is for breeding ???
> 
> ...


I think Doberman's tend to mature slower than GSD's. Because of this I can definitely see the benefit of breeding a bitch before she is titled, as long as you know what she is made of. However I belong to a club that has a policy that states you cannot breed unless both dogs are titled, so it is a moot point with me.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Pressure that cannot be seen in training ?? For me the Dobermanns that I liked when I was younger, and even today, I want a bit of sharpness, or willingness to bite first.

I do not like flighty weird Dobes. They all have some sort of weird sighthound influence, but I do not mind that so much.

I want a female that has the ability to deal with small children, and small pets, and what not appropriately. I definately want confidence, but not what I might see on a training field. I guess tolerance of small annoyances, and not reactive to things that are not a big threat. Kinda hard for me to explain I am finding out just now.

I want the drive, and good thresholds, but I want a female that can live with other creatures. Solid environmentally, and I want her to be totally committed to me, or her owner. Others should not excist.

The male is an entirely different subject. Big drives big bites, big commitment ect. I want the female to act like a female.

Man, this has got to be the lamest explanation. Hope it made some sort of sense.

THis is a lame explanation for sure. I


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: However I belong to a club that has a policy that states you cannot breed unless both dogs are titled, so it is a moot point with me.

I had a long conversation with a friend of mine who was lamenting the fact that their were no studs that she liked for her bitch, who was not titled, and how she would get a lot of grief if she bred her.

She had wanted to title her in Mondio, but the club was not a good fit for her. She was not happy with Sch anymore.

I told her that people had been breeding titled dog for some time, and it was not really improving the Dobermann breed. Sch looks for GSD traits so I do not think it is the end all for breeding Dobermanns.

I suggested a dog that was untitled, who I had worked, and bit like a vice, and took the work seriously, no matter how much I tried to make it a game. The owner was not going to be able to title the dog, and he is from Dutch breeding, and more than she could handle.

The breeding turned out real nice, there was one skitch, but based on the womans really odd reactions to bringing the pup back, he was probably just going along with her and her husbands oddities. I do not think throwing yourself on someones lawn and moaning and wailing is gonna be the person to raise a dog normally. Unfortunately, due to the internet, she had all the right answers to my friends questions.

I worked her young male, and he is a nice dog for the work.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Jeff, titling is one thing, I agree that this does not have to happen. However, over here most people won't buy from breeders who don't title their bitch and 99% of the breeders have to sell their litters.

On the other hand, you say:

The male is an entirely different subject. Big drives big bites, big commitment ect. I want the female to act like a female.

As the male and female each contribute 50% of their genes to the litter, can you be sure that the male is delivering just big drives, big bites, big commitment and the female is going to pass on her "female" qualities?

I understand what you are saying. It's like in KNPV where the female is a "brood bitch" I guess. But she, too 
has to prove she is a good brood bitch.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Pressure that cannot be seen in training ?? For me the Dobermanns that I liked when I was younger, and even today, I want a bit of sharpness, or willingness to bite first.
> 
> I do not like flighty weird Dobes. They all have some sort of weird sighthound influence, but I do not mind that so much.
> 
> ...


I follow you- scary thought, but wtf. You mean relatively solid temperament, who will not eat her owners children and have her own pups for dessert.


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## Jennifer Gossmeyer (Nov 19, 2008)

steve davis said:


> steve and jen have done an awesome job with silence..best dobie i've ever seen
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzrqjVfOjqA



Thank you Steve.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

*Bruno v. Wustensturm training video.*

I came across this video earlier when I was cruising around the net. I also had an email from Tammy, who handles him. She has only handled working line GSD's (she always worked GSD's and John worked Dobies) in the close to 20 years she has been a Sch handler. She told me he has been difficult to work because he did not have any foundation as a puppy or even as a young dog, but is the best dog she has ever handled. It was the result of their B litter breeding. 

For those that don't know this dog got a rough start in life. His owner who had done not much of anything with him, died of a heart attack when Bruno was about 14 months old. He was then taken in by a member of the man's family, kept in a crate 24/7 and just fed and let out of the crate once a day. When the Kowalczyk's found out about it they rescued him back. Tammy shortly afterward broke her ankle and was out of commission for months. So he really did not start being worked until he was older than 2 years. 

Recent video by jk78426 on Photobucket


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