# DogTown/Michael Vick dogs



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I just saw that on this coming Friday, National Geographic channel is airing a new series called DogTown. Apparently the first episode is called "Dog Town - Saving the Michael Vick Dogs". I have no clue what "DogTown" is, for all I know it could be a fluff piece with some sort of gimicky training, or it could be really good. Anyway, I have set my DVR to record it and I thought others might want to do the same.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Dog town is at Best Friends animal sanctuary in Southern Utah. They support Animal Rights groups. They do much more harm than good. IMO


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh yuck, thanks for the heads up.


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Susan I have seen a few episodes of Dog Town and I am with Kyle they do more harm than good. The episodes I saw they showed how little they know of dog training and behavior, putting a dog that was suspected of being dog aggressive, but they weren't sure, in with a smaller quite dog dominant dog. They just let the dogs loose with each other and never stepped in when the smaller dog bullied, pushed, and pestered the larger dog who just wanted to get away. They let it escalate to the point where the dogs began fighting and then used pepper spray or citronella spray (can't remember which) to break it up and claimed "dogs are unpredictable!" as the reason the aggression occured.

They also placed a dog in a home with many other dogs that obviously had issues with leadership, the dogs ran the place and they evidently saw no problems when they did a home evaluation. They placed the dog with them and gee whiz he was returned because the bossy male doxie they had didn't get along with him.

There was more but I won't list it all.

I think they do good in caring for dogs "no one else" will and they do house a lot of unfortunate animals as they have the finances to do so, but from what I saw on the shows (and yes I realize there is a lot I did not see thanks to the edit factor) and have heard otherwise, they don't know what they are doing.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh okay, I think I saw a thread about this show on Leerburg and I even think I caught part of the show on TV! I had no idea this was that. I thought this was some brand new series. I'm gonna go deprogram my DVR rather than waste the space.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Oh okay, I think I saw a thread about this show on Leerburg and I even think I caught part of the show on TV! I had no idea this was that. I thought this was some brand new series. I'm gonna go deprogram my DVR rather than waste the space.


I am still going to watch it, but I would rather watch Vick's trial. I bet he does not get anything near what he deserves. FLUFFYBUNNY DUMBASS that he is. :-x


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

also, I know a young lady that worked there for a short time, she was "fired" because she wouldn't Neuter here ScH titled working dog. :-o


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## Catalina Valencia (Feb 20, 2008)

Jennifer Marshall said:


> Susan I have seen a few episodes of Dog Town and I am with Kyle they do more harm than good. The episodes I saw they showed how little they know of dog training and behavior, putting a dog that was suspected of being dog aggressive, but they weren't sure, in with a smaller quite dog dominant dog. They just let the dogs loose with each other and never stepped in when the smaller dog bullied, pushed, and pestered the larger dog who just wanted to get away. They let it escalate to the point where the dogs began fighting and then used pepper spray or citronella spray (can't remember which) to break it up and claimed "dogs are unpredictable!" as the reason the aggression occured.
> 
> They also placed a dog in a home with many other dogs that obviously had issues with leadership, the dogs


I saw that episode too. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who tought they had no idea what they were doing.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> I am still going to watch it, but I would rather watch Vick's trial. I bet he does not get anything near what he deserves. FLUFFYBUNNY DUMBASS that he is. :-x


Oh YEAH, baby! I'm wondering if Court TV will televise it?:-o WAIT! wasn't he sentenced in April?


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Oh YEAH, baby! I'm wondering if Court TV will televise it?:-o WAIT! wasn't he sentenced in April?


I think so, I'll have to google search it.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

There was just a show on the whole case over the weekend, Vick ending up losing like $150 million worth in contracts and ended up declaring bankruptcy#-o,all for some dog fighting. You can take 'em out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of them!!! Might be wrong to say but it is true.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

todd pavlus said:


> There was just a show on the whole case over the weekend, Vick ending up losing like $150 million worth in contracts and ended up declaring bankruptcy#-o,all for some dog fighting. You can take 'em out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of them!!! Might be wrong to say but it is true.


I agree with you. I think it was Whoopi Goldberg was on television about it a while back and made the excuse of "This is how "we" were raised, so we do not know any better" NOT exact quotes but something similar. (hopefully I can find that blurb that was sent to me in my email)

This made me fume. Anyone with common sense and a concious would have to know this is WRONG!](*,) ](*,)


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## Kris Finison (Nov 26, 2007)

I haven't seen it before so I think I'm going to check it out if I'm back from protection training in time.
I must say, though, that when I saw the commercial for the Mike Vick dogs it seemed like they were trying to boost their credibility by using those dogs to gain people's sympathy and support. Just looking at the way it's being advertised and played up seems like a political gimmick... almost along the same lines of taking on a female running mate to compete against a black candidate.:lol:


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Are you guys talking about the "animal witness - the michael vick case" from Animal Planet? 

If so, it was aired a few weeks ago and I saw it. I thought it was pretty good. They basically went over all the facts that were on the news last year and did some re-enactments. They did a good job showing how almost all the Pits on the property were still able to be saved and that they are judged unfairly, and are a great breed. I think they did a good job with that part, it could've easily been shed in a bad light.

They also talked about vick losing those $150M, going bankrupt, and being sentenced for 2 yrs by the feds. The state can still press charges, but they said, they probably wouldn't.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Alex that is the show I saw. If I had $150 million dollars, I could probably find 150 million other things to do with it than run a dog fighting ring. It's amazing how dome some people are . Why is it that so many proffesional athletes think there above the law.[-X Maybe they were also "raised that way". Woopi Goldberg must be retarded. They must know it is against the law. Just another excuse.:-({|= I'm sure there are plenty of good people on this board that could use $150 million, and would do some good with it.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Vick is an a$$hole because he fought dogs!!
Dog fighting is not a "them" or "they" situation. Lets not get to carried away in this direction folks. 

Bob Scott - Mod


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Vick is an a$$hole because he fought dogs!!
> Dog fighting is not a "them" or "they" situation. Lets not get to carried away in this direction folks.
> 
> Bob Scott - Mod


Your right Bob, my apologies. Should have thought about my post before I sent it. 
Feel free to delete it if you like. 

I honestly was not stating it to include anyone other than Vick, but rather to point out the obviously stupid comments that were made trying to defend his actions. 
If I offended anyone, I truly apologize as it was not my intention at all.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

None taken Carol and I know it wasn't ment to be. 
Just didn't want the conversation to take a bad/uneducated turn by anyone!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Just to set the record straight, here is what Whoopi Goldberg actually said about Michael Vick fighting dogs. This was her first day on the TV show, "The View" :
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14040573/detail.html?taf=atl

"You know from his background this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from," said Goldberg. "There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of our country." 

Co-host Joy Behar seemed shocked at Goldberg's statements. "How about dog torture and dog murdering," Behar asked. 

"Unfortunately it's part of the thing," Goldberg replied. "You're a dog lover. For a lot of people dogs are sport," she added. 

Behar continued to shake her head in disgust. 

Goldberg said it seemed to her that it took a while for Vick to realize that the charges against him were serious. "It seemed like a light went off in his head when he realized that this was something the entire country really didn't appreciated, didn't like," Goldberg said, referring to Vick's guilty plea. 

She said if the case had involved somebody from New York City her feelings would have been different. Goldberg pointed out that Vick was raised in the South. "This is part of his cultural upbringing," said Goldberg. 

Co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck said she was encouraged by the NFL suspending Vick indefinitely. 

But Goldberg continued to defend Vick saying "This is a kid who comes from a culture when this is not questioned." 
_________________________________________

I saw the program when it aired. In my opinion, she did not excuse or defend him, but was trying to explain the phenomenom of dog fighting in certain parts of our society.

Personally, I think her statements were jumped on and twisted by certain talk show hosts and of course, the animal rights groups. Much of what she said was taken out of context and made to sound much more incendiary than it was. Funny, seldom do the two end up on the same side of an issue. Politics does make strange bedfellows.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Thank you Susan....I appreciate it as that was not the blurb I got in the e-mail message. Probably was a re-written version of the statement you posted. 

That'll teach me.....


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

I agree that in certain countries there are activities that are commonplace and people may not realize that these activities are illegal and frowned upon in the united states.

But, sorry, something being illegal is a pretty damn good indicator that you shouldn't do it.

Claiming you grew up around it is no excuse for purposefully going against the law, everyone has a choice. I grew up around poaching and drug use, alcoholism. I don't poach, I don't use drugs, and I rarely drink at all and never to excess (anymore) because I choose not to. I know people who grew up in very bad areas of big cities where drugs and violence are the norm. Just because its been done doesn't mean you should do it. 

People claim a lot of things. What I don't understand is that even if they believe what they are doing to be ok, they still know they are breaking the law - thats why they don't go to the local park and host these activities. When you make the attempt to hide something you are admitting that you know it is wrong in some way or another. If it wasn't "wrong" (meaning illegal) then there would be nothing to hide.

People get caught up in the fact that different cultures have different types of morals, different levels. That to some people animals are nothing but objects to be used and abused. Yes, it is true. Not everyone has compassion for animals, or they have different levels of compassion and understanding.

Someone's culture being different does not make their actions any less illegal. If it is illegal, you're better off not doing it.

At least I used to feel that way - with all the laws being passed these days I may go from a nice law abiding country girl to a pitchfork waving torch yielding ******* B****!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Just to be clear, I don't believe Whoopi Goldberg was trying to excuse what he did, she was just trying to explain the mentality. Unfortunately people hear what they want to hear, and don't always hear what someone is actually saying. Also I don't see where she or anyone else for that matter, said he didn't know it was against the law. 

Personally I'm no girl scout and I sure as hell am not perfect. I try to obey most laws, but I have been know to blow a stop sign or two ("California Stop") even though I know it's "against the law"- ON PURPOSE!


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## Jennifer Marshall (Dec 13, 2007)

Susan I was talking about people in general. I understand that there are "reasons" and that people are just trying to explain the reasons things happened and not making excuses. 

My post was in response to the "reasons" behind blood sports being cultural differences. I'm not directing this only at those involved in the Vick case. My post is meant to address violence and blood sport not every law in existence.  There is a very fine and blurry line surrounding morality and the human race. 

I love animals in general but I am an avid hunter. I have no qualms shooting a buck or a bull, but I try to make the suffering as minimal as I can. I don't hunt for sport, I hunt for food, for meat. I use almost every scrap of game animals I take during season and while I do cause harm and pain for my own personal gain, it is not my intent. Blood sports involve taking pleasure in the suffering of an animal, it is money and pride in exchange for blood and death. The entire point of animal fighting/baiting is harm, bloodshed.

Nice blurry line there, huh? I kill for my personal gain, and to many people that is very wrong and I can't argue that it is right. BUt it is not illegal. This is where action versus intent comes in and makes things even more blurry. But I won't get into philosphy here!

My point is that those who fall back on their culture having no problems with a blood sport are still knowingly breaking the law. So even if you have no compassion for animals it is no excuse for breaking the law.

If I went to some far off country where picking fruit off a tree and eating it was illegal, I wouldn't do it. Not because I think their culture is right or that I think picking fruit off a tree to eat is a bad thing, but because it is against the law.

I guess I'm just one of those strange people that avoids trouble.


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## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

I watched both shows. Dog Town isn’t anything new to me though I know a lot about Best Friends working in the Dog Rescue world for years now. I know Best Friends does a lot of good locally by organizing and funding local dog rescue events and animal abuse awareness.
As for them kicking out the girl bc of her unaltered dog... I know that when you are doing rescue work any type of unaltered dogs is frowned upon. Not saying I agree 100% bc I don’t but I can see where they are coming from. 
I am happy that the public was able to see Pit Bulls as something other then fighting aggressive things to be scared of and loving intelligent animals who deserve a change to live and that euth isn’t always the answer.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Jennifer, 
This is one of the most profound and educational statements I have read on the whole animal morality issues; * I love animals in general but I am an avid hunter. I have no qualms shooting a buck or a bull, but I try to make the suffering as minimal as I can. I don't hunt for sport, I hunt for food, for meat. I use almost every scrap of game animals I take during season and while I do cause harm and pain for my own personal gain, it is not my intent. Blood sports involve taking pleasure in the suffering of an animal, it is money and pride in exchange for blood and death. The entire point of animal fighting/baiting is harm, bloodshed.
*

As far as the Best Friends group, I have given them kennel space for the Pits they rescued form Katrina, and helped rehab a few to get them homes. They have been very non-political and dog friendly in all my dealings with them. They certainly are no PETA or HSUS group.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

They easily Sucker people. Sure Sounds like an AR agenda and PARTY line to me!!!!!! #-o :roll: #-o ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) 

Butch Writes: "As far as the Best Friends group, I have given them kennel space for the Pits they rescued form Katrina, and helped rehab a few to get them homes. They have been very non-political and dog friendly in all my dealings with them. They certainly are no PETA or HSUS group."



""From: _"Best Friends, Denise" <[email protected]>_
Reply-To: _<[email protected]>_
To: _"bfnmembers" <[email protected]>_
Subject: _You Can Help the Tethered Dogs of NV!_
Date: _Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:00:32 -0700_

.ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal{margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';}.ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}.ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}.ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle17{font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none none;}@page Section1{size:8.5in 11.0in;}.ExternalClass div.EC_Section1{page:Section1;}
Dear Best Friends Members,

We need your help particularly if you are or know of a Nevada veterinarian that would be willing to speak up on the behalf of the dogs that live their lives chained, tethered or caged!

The Nevada legislature is considering a bill, S.B. 11, that would restrict the tethering, chaining or other restraint such as caging of any animal. 

Sen. Randolph Townsend is sponsoring the bill. 

The author of the bill, Karen Goodman, describes that she is 搄ust a citizen?who wanted to do something about the cruelty of tethering or chaining and penning dogs. 

Dogs, in particular, are social animals. Chaining or tethering and crating or caging dogs away from the family isolates them and tends to make them frustrated, intensely bored, neurotic and aggressive. 

Tethered or chained dogs tend to be more neglected and generally do not receive the veterinary care they need.

In addition tethered or chained dogs are a danger to themselves, as they can choke to death when their tethers or chains became entangled with other objects. They can develop infections and severe wounds when their collars become embedded in their necks. 
Dogs kept for long periods in crates or small runs live akin to a person placed in solitary confinement in a prison. 

Also, 81% of fatal dog attacks are by dogs that were isolated, neglected or not part of the family.

A study by the Centers for Disease Control revealed chained dogs are 2.8 times more likely to become aggressive. Indeed, the American Veterinary Medical Association has condemned the tethering or chaining of dogs. 

*We need your help to pass this bill. The bill is pending before the Nevada Senate Committee on Natural Resources. If you are or know of a Nevada veterinarian who would be willing to help, please reply to this email; we need your help to convince Nevada state senators about the cruelty and danger of tethering, chaining and caging animals. *

Or, call or write your Senator and urge him or her to pass this bill, an important step in Nevada to the elimination of all tethering, chaining and penning of dogs and other animals. Click here to find your Nevada senator. 
http://mapserve.leg.state.nv.us/website/lcb/viewer.htm

Click here for a list of all Senators and their addresses, email addresses and phone numbers. http://www.leg.state.nv.us/74th/Legislators/Senators/slist.cfm

Best regards,
The Best Friends Network Team
Best Friends Animal Society
5001 Angel Canyon Road
Kanab, Utah 84741
435-644-3965 ext 4254
http://network.bestfriends.org/""


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Wow, that's quite a letter Kyle. I think that pretty much makes it crystal clear they are no different from any of the other animal rights group fanatics.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kind of like Jamielee mentioned, unfortunately, especially when you are involved in a lot of rescue work, the typical dog that you see chained/tied out/kenneled is not worked, exercised, or played with everyday, or sometimes even fed or sheltered. So I see why they'd say it. But crating dogs, especially when young...I'd rather not have my house destroyed when my dogs are young. :roll:


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

We must remember that there are already laws in most, if not ALL, juristictions considering such Non-Sense; PROTECTING dogs that are left without, Food, water and proper shelter.

Sad thing is these laws are NOT inforced for whatever reason, what makes anyone think New ones will be :!: 

ARs want access to your yard and property without Due-Process. THAT is the reason behind this BS!:-x


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## Amy Swaby (Jul 16, 2008)

Kyle i fully agree with that statement and have argued the point on a million things.

In savannah people were getting fake id's to get drinks. So they passed a law saying no one under 21 at clubs....so what's stoping the same people with the fake id's? it's only hurting the responsible

BSL fighting dogs and improper containment and treatment of animals is already illegal...so when they pass a law to ban a breed what's going to make the people already breaking the law in such an aspect not continue doing when they were already breaking the law in the first place?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I understand what you guys are saying, I do. I also agree that they need to enforce laws on the books. But someone can put a dog out on a logging chain with a rudimentary dog house and a bucket of Ol' Roy and be following the letter of the law. And if you read books like "Fatal Dog Attacks" by Karen Delise, it is pretty clear that dogs who are more like resident dogs (chained out back, never exercised, worked, played with, etc) than actual family dogs are more likely to be involved in fatal dog attacks than family pets. Particularly when a kid, either a neighbor or from the family, wanders into the yard or if the dog gets off the tie out/chain because that kind social isolation with no outletan d no protection from strays just makes it batshit crazy aggressive. 

So yes, I agree. It would be difficult/almost impossible to enforce and educating people would be preferrable, but I do agree that tying out/chaining dogs on a permanent basis is a bad idea. And not that I don't ever use a tie out either, because I do every day to let the dogs out on 5 minute potty breaks or if I'm out with them working on the yard. But it's never more than a few minutes and I'm usually supervising.


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