# "American Bully"



## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

so, while being a housewife is not identical to living under a rock, it does lend itself to becoming less than connected to the world at large. today, for the very first time, i have been introduced to the perceived existence of the "American Bully" . it's as if the APBT grew three or four inches and put on about 25lbs of inert bulk. this slovenly offshoot has declared itself a separate BREED. it has constructed a registry. it has a logo to go with the webpage it has put up as a declaration of legitimacy. it has the audacity to string up, like some kind of fat camp marquee, a come one-come all for overly fleshed and deliberately less game bait dogs. how far out of the loop am i? is this now an accepted thing?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I would much rather see the rise of the "American Bully" breed, than to have people keep referring to the dogs as APBT personally.

what exactly do you feel is unacceptable or offensive about the breeders of "American Bullies" attempting to gain "breed recognition"? 

just curious.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

i consider it superfluous and absurd to inflate certain physical aspects of an established breed and then take a monkey wrench to the intended nature of the type of dog in an effort to cash in on what it appears to be rather than what it actually is. like Velveeta. it isn't cheese, it's a substitute for cheese if you prize things like molecular stability over flavor. tiny print and asterisks imply that it is based on the public opinion of cheese but is not, in and of itself, technically cheese. 
i'm upset, actually, that soooo many people are clamoring to produce less effective, less durable animals based on the pursuit of having a dog who looks like one of the cast of Jersey Shore.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i consider it superfluous and absurd to inflate certain physical aspects of an established breed and then take a monkey wrench to the intended nature of the type of dog in an effort to cash in on what it appears to be rather than what it actually is. like Velveeta. it isn't cheese, it's a substitute for cheese if you prize things like molecular stability over flavor. tiny print and asterisks imply that it is based on the public opinion of cheese but is not, in and of itself, technically cheese.
> i'm upset, actually, that soooo many people are clamoring to produce less effective, less durable animals based on the pursuit of having a dog who looks like one of the cast of Jersey Shore.



You do realize that most bullies are results of crossing various "breeds" right? as are most dog breeds. 

I am glad to live in a free country myself, where I can do what I want to do.

I hear you though, not my thing to breed dogs for looks, but there are bullys that can work too. They are not gonna last with a fast lane game bred dog in a pit, but theycan do bitework and OB and be active pets, not all are useless oversized lumps....

here's the thing, some people that breed dogs, like to make money doing it. 

pitbull puppies are so common now, I can get them for free most anytime I want to, sometimes even well bred ones.

bully's are the new fad, they sell. if and idiot breeds a litter of pitbulls they will be lucky to not have to give them away. if they breed bullies there is a good chance that they can get 2000 or more per pup...

if they can get them into a category of their own I think that is great, personally.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I agree that it's better they have their own registry, than to call them APBTs. This breed seems to be really deformed, especially in the front, like a piano. I'm surprised to hear the breed can work, I find it painful to watch them move.

http://youtu.be/fYhpaftaw_A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhwoH6wVj10

http://youtu.be/mIoTrh8Ae9A


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> I agree that it's better they have their own registry, than to call them APBTs. This breed seems to be really deformed, especially in the front, like a piano. I'm surprised to hear the breed can work, I find it painful to watch them move.
> 
> http://youtu.be/fYhpaftaw_A
> 
> ...


Ill look for some video.

I had a couple different ones enter my shows. One was super cute. On the small side... instead of jumping over the bails of hay on the long bite, she blasted right through the top one which had loosened up some..

I have also ran across a few "good" ones at various PP and Bully/Bulldog events, but I agree the vast majority of them cannot do much, and are either way over-sized or have some crazy stuff going on with the front ends...

I have seen some with some pretty impressive drive, and builds that were not totally useless, which usually occurs on the smaller side of the spectrum.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Why ANYONE would breed into the English Bulldog is beyond me. That's all these are. Pit crosses with the EBD. 
Yes, all breeds start somewhere but why start with a genetically and physically doomed breed like the English Bulldog?!!!


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Wow Susan, I've never seen dogs like that called American Bulldogs! Space Aliens maybe... Those are not the AB's I've known for years! This abomination is no different than the New GSD that can't climb stairs or the Blue Tick hound that wouldn't know a **** if it bit 'em on the nose. IMO it's the same "In the eye of the beholder" crap.

I saw some hog dogs in Texas that were considered AB's and they were awesome, large (95 to 120 lbs) athletic and powerful dogs much taller than APBTs. They worked hunting hogs all the time. I understood they were more of a Dogo Argentino cross with something with a short muzzle. (NOT an English Bulldog) Those good ole boys wouldn't give me the recipe, LOL. I personally wouldn't mind those dogs being a recognized breed. They could work!!

Here in North Carolina the locals call EVERYTHING either a Bulldog, Hound dog or Rat dog so when you actually see their dog it's sometimes like those videos... a mystery bred "Handy to Ready" dog.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Tim Lynam said:


> Wow Susan, I've never seen dogs like that called American Bulldogs! Space Aliens maybe... Those are not the AB's I've known for years! This abomination is no different than the New GSD that can't climb stairs or the Blue Tick hound that wouldn't know a **** if it bit 'em on the nose. IMO it's the same "In the eye of the beholder" crap.
> 
> I saw some hog dogs in Texas that were considered AB's and they were awesome, large (95 to 120 lbs) athletic and powerful dogs much taller than APBTs. They worked hunting hogs all the time. I understood they were more of a Dogo Argentino cross with something with a short muzzle. (NOT an English Bulldog) Those good ole boys wouldn't give me the recipe, LOL. I personally wouldn't mind those dogs being a recognized breed. They could work!!
> 
> Here in North Carolina the locals call EVERYTHING either a Bulldog, Hound dog or Rat dog so when you actually see their dog it's sometimes like those videos... a mystery bred "Handy to Ready" dog.


Don't confuse Bully and Bulldog. I didn't understand the point of these either when I first heard about them. However, do know of at least one that does work. I think its a new designer fad that those involved will cash in while they can.


T


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Tim Lynam said:


> Wow Susan, I've never seen dogs like that called American Bulldogs! Space Aliens maybe... Those are not the AB's I've known for years! This abomination is no different than the New GSD that can't climb stairs or the Blue Tick hound that wouldn't know a **** if it bit 'em on the nose. IMO it's the same "In the eye of the beholder" crap.


American Bullys aren't the same as American Bull Dogs. I really like American Bull Dogs, very athletic with good heads on their shoulders, at least the ones I've had the pleasure of knowing through the years, nice dogs.


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## Eric Read (Aug 14, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Why ANYONE would breed into the English Bulldog is beyond me. That's all these are. Pit crosses with the EBD.
> Yes, all breeds start somewhere but why start with a genetically and physically doomed breed like the English Bulldog?!!!


Someone already nailed the "why" Because I can go out and get a great pitbull puppy or dog for 50 bucks or less. Can't make money giving away dogs for free, so add in some freak to make them look bigger and badder and suddenly they're worth 2K.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

just for the record, i think American Bulldogs are amazing, and i will forever be a big fan of the APBT, too, because i've met really great specimens from both breeds and no, they weren't all manstoppers, but they all had tremendous physical capabilities and they wore their power very lightly, were sweet, fun dogs ready for a good time and eager to make friends, especially if you had food. they could handle themselves and certainly were prepared to do anything for their people. 
i know it's bad form to judge based on appearance, but the credo i read for this "breed" says they have chosen to breed out the gameness--the aggression, it said--because it has nowhere to go in these modern times.
a Smooth Collie and a Rough Collie are both used for the same tasks and are both the same size, minus extra fur. the White Bull Terrier and the Colored Bull Terrier are still the same size and function and the Miniature Bull Terrier is allowed to be a little more ADD than his larger counterparts but he is supposed to be a tinier version of them. the Belgian Shepherds differ primarily in coat length/type but they're all supposed to be Shepherd dogs. this is just a stylized and chummy version developed for aesthetics, this American Bully, and breeding them to make money regardless of their health is like issuing a second run of the Ford Pinto.
i know, i'm going to hell, but in America, as any place else, just because it can be done doesn't mean it SHOULD be done


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

I know some dogs snort and pant a lot but these dogs seem to have a hell of a time fighting to get a good breath of air in their lungs. All I can see is panting and panting, then panting some more. 

Looks more like a fashion statement then a dog. "Lookie what I has on ma leash dude!" As always, health has had to pay the price to get what these people consider is beauty.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I honestly do not know how the English Bulldog is today. But I do know that this breed has a lot of temperament. However this temperament is thwarted by it's breathing apparatus.

I boarded my Landseer once with someone who had an English Bulldog. It was pitiful to see how the dog wanted to play with the Landseer, but couldn't.

There is a lot of talk about "Qualzucht" in breeding here in Switzerland but I think more rigarose breeding standards must prevail. 

Very often, these breed clubs are mainly run by old ladies (old biddies) trying to preserve an English breed. Here in Switzerland, it is ok to preserve "old English traditions" as long as it doesn't involve canines.

There are many Anglophiles over here but as long as they don't dabble in canines, they don't bother me.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

maybe it's a "bigger is better", "muscle car" mindset, american thing ?
- none of these giants have hit the shores here, but fwiw the few pits (mostly staffs) i have met here all had a much better overall temperament than the average goldens and labs i get to work with.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Just a quick "Thank You" to Terrasita and Susan for grabbing the end of the rope and pulling hard to dislodge my head from my ass!! The relief was instantaneous. Boy, was I confused...


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## Tonya Beam (Jun 18, 2013)

My son got one of these for Christmas this year. These dogs come down from the APBT, but are shorter, wider, and heavier. I will say that the dog aggression is a lot less, and the general temp is nice. He went with one where the parents were not as exaggerated as some of the ones that you can find. Most of these dogs are show dogs and do weight pulling. They can have heart issues and joint issues obviously. The breeder he went to, all of the dogs were out together with no aggression issues, even the females could be together with the puppies right there. My son went with this type of breeding because of the aggression issues with bullies.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi Tonya,

what is the name of this breed?


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

This may help...

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breeds/CompanionDog/AmericanBully

Most of the "American Bully" sites I visited seemed to be ignorant of this standard...

Therefore, Buyer Beware.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Thank you.


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## Tonya Beam (Jun 18, 2013)

Here is another one

http://theabkcdogs.org/


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## Tonya Beam (Jun 18, 2013)

And I would agree that most breeders are very much over doing it with these dogs. We got lucky and found one that is not doing that. The dogs are active and healthy.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Tonya posted:

_*Here is another one

http://theabkcdogs.org/*_


Well Tonya, let the games begin... According to that site, what type of Bully do you want? No breeding program left behind...

For example, the January 25, 2014 - Las Vegas Bully Invitationals II, Show 3, Las Vegas, NV - 
(Judge: Cindy McCloskey-Johnson) list these types to be judged:

AMERICAN BULLY:
STANDARD
POCKET
XL
CLASSIC
EXTREME
SHORTY BULLS

Er, they left out Handy to Ready.


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## Tonya Beam (Jun 18, 2013)

> Well Tonya, let the games begin... According to that site, what type of Bully do you want?


?????


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Which type did you buy your son for Christmas, Tonya?


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## Tonya Beam (Jun 18, 2013)

The parents would have fit in the classic description. 

Is there a need to be snarky?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

the mind trick here is not to get in the mindset of comparing "bully" type dogs of ANY size, to functional working APBT or AB.

this is a "new" type of dog entirely.

IF one was really interested, there IS an opportunity to break into this "new" type of dogs breed, on any size level, and attempt to make a line of functional working type dogs. They ARE out there.

if not THEN WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT PEOPLE BREED OR BUY.

here is how the original Bully breed started.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> the mind trick here is not to get in the mindset of comparing "bully" type dogs of ANY size, to functional working APBT or AB.
> 
> this is a "new" type of dog entirely.
> 
> ...


Well Joby, the pictured cross would have at least given the offspring a better nose for SAR... and would be far superior health wise to the English and Ole English Bulldog used. By the way, there some American Bullys for sale on the WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT PEOPLE BREED OR BUY Forum.:-\"


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## Noel Long (Mar 13, 2013)

When I opened this, I thought it would be about the taller, longer-legged Bulldogs, not the downhill, stumpy-legged, gasping ones. I don't like it. So extreme. Unfortunately, they seem to be taking foothold in UKC, more in the Southern half of the country.

"Extreme micro," "pocket," "XXL." Why not breed a historically accurate, moderate Stafford? Those are kinda neat. At least one kennel also sells Frenchies (Gomez Bullyz) so I guess that is how they are getting that extreme body & head.



susan tuck said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhwoH6wVj10


His choke chain is on wrong :smile:. And how many times are they going to show his nuts?

The kennel names are telling: Cash Money, Moneyline, Royal Family, Razor's Edge, etc. Where's the barf icon?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Noel Long said:


> When I opened this, I thought it would be about the taller, longer-legged Bulldogs, not the downhill, stumpy-legged, gasping ones. I don't like it. So extreme. Unfortunately, they seem to be taking foothold in UKC, more in the Southern half of the country.
> 
> "Extreme micro," "pocket," "XXL." Why not breed a historically accurate, moderate Stafford? Those are kinda neat. At least one kennel also sells Frenchies (Gomez Bullyz) so I guess that is how they are getting that extreme body & head.
> 
> ...


For some reason I am reminded of those people who think it's a cool thing to hang testicles from the hitch of their pick up.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> For some reason I am reminded of those people who think it's a cool thing to hang testicles from the hitch of their pick up.


Hopefully with the man attached to them :grin:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Hopefully with the man attached to them :grin:


Nope. It's a weird thing. There's apparently a whole subset of people who think hanging fake bull testicles from the tow hitch of their pick up truck is really cool:










:roll: 
go figure...


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

I understand the health issues with these dogs but I have to admit that I love their temperament for the most part. I work with a fair number of these dogs and they make really nice pets. They seem to have much less dog aggression than other bull breeds to. 

I have also been to a few bully shows and they are the most fun dog events I have ever been to. Where else can you see a guy that looks like he would dominate the prison yard kissing and cooing on a dog and a booty shake contest? These guys really like their dogs and take great care of them. I have a hard time being critical. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Noel Long said:


> His choke chain is on wrong :smile:. And how many times are they going to show his nuts?


Maybe they know more than you do? The chain is often put on "wrong" on show dogs becuse they want the chain to stay snug so that it pulls the skin up and defines the dog jawline. This is important when showing head breeds.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Christopher Smith said:


> I understand the health issues with these dogs but I have to admit that I love their temperament for the most part. I work with a fair number of these dogs and they make really nice pets. They seem to have much less dog aggression than other bull breeds to.
> 
> I have also been to a few bully shows and they are the most fun dog events I have ever been to. Where else can you see a guy that looks like he would dominate the prison yard kissing and cooing on a dog and a booty shake contest? These guys really like their dogs and take great care of them. I have a hard time being critical.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Dude, you're a nice person after all!

Damn, now I am going to respect your posts more. 


Regards


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

The conformation wise, they look to have more in common with the English Bulldog than the American Bulldog, which I think is interesting.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Dude, you're a nice person after all!
> 
> Damn, now I am going to respect your posts more.
> 
> ...


Nice? That's what matters to you on a forum like this? I'm a super nice guy. Ask anyone here that actually knows me. But I don't suffer fools or bullshit very well. And there are a lot of fools spouting bullshit on this forum. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Christopher Smith said:


> Nice? That's what matters to you on a forum like this? I'm a super nice guy. Ask anyone here that actually knows me. But I don't suffer fools or bullshit very well. And there are a lot of fools spouting bullshit on this forum.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Alright man...lol

Have a good one.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> Nice? That's what matters to you on a forum like this? I'm a super nice guy. Ask anyone here that actually knows me. But I don't suffer fools or bullshit very well. And there are a lot of fools spouting bullshit on this forum.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I know Christopher and he is very nice...also always ready to help.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Ipo would be more popular if there were "Booty Shake" contests at the trials. Perhaps the winner could get a trophy or a sleeve?


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## Julia Norton VMD (Sep 11, 2008)

When I worked in the city I had a client who bred them and got $3000 a pup. Dogs were overdone, saw heart problems, deformed front legs etc. Less dog aggression but a number of them were nerve bags. Offered to fix one up and find a home for it since owner was unwilling to spend any $. He signed her over but she was so fearful needed a rabies pole to get her out of the run. Had to euthanize her as unadoptable. All fear based sadly.


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

The fact that this fad has gained enough credibility to have attained (albeit questionable) breed status makes me sad.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

kristin tresidder said:


> The fact that this fad has gained enough credibility to have attained (albeit questionable) breed status makes me sad.


Because of health issues or because of the way they look, or another reason?


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Julia Norton VMD said:


> When I worked in the city I had a client who bred them and got $3000 a pup.


Now that's good business! 8-10 litters/yr and no need to work a reg day job!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> Nope. It's a weird thing. There's apparently a whole subset of people who think hanging fake bull testicles from the tow hitch of their pick up truck is really cool:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Not sure if they are still out there but it used to be possible to get a woman,s purse made out of a bull scrotum. I believe it was in "The Western Horseman" magazines. 
Just cold I tell yas! COLD!! :lol:


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## Angela Renee (Dec 1, 2012)

kristin tresidder said:


> The fact that this fad has gained enough credibility to have attained (albeit questionable) breed status makes me sad.


Me too.  I'm about to go into rant mode... I have a lot less respect for the UKC now. Though, I've been irritated with them for a long time anyway due to the fact that they have been rewarding AKC type dogs in the ring. They ought to just change the breed name to American Staffordshire Terrier and leave the APBT to the ADBA. They have their own set of problems with overdone dogs but at least they don't award them in the ring. 

Anyway, I just don't get it. 
If you want a short dog with a sway back, high rear, straight stifle, as well as a short muzzle and pronounced stop why not just get an Old English Bulldogge? Lol 
If you want a dog bulkier than the APBT with less aggression but isn't so short and wide, get a show AmStaff. 
If you want a big blue guard dog, get a Cane Corso, a bandog, or something.
There are already plenty of breeds in exsistence that fit the bill without breeding these dogs. No health testing, several varieties to suite every freak show out there. It disgusts me.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

yes, that is exactly how i feel about this, thanx


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