# Play time vs. Crate Time



## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

Hey all,

Question for everyone... is there a ratio or recommended amount of time that a puppy should be out playing vs. in the crate?

The reason i ask is that i have my 12 week old pup and i simply cannot watch her in the house and outside of her crate ALL day. I have things to do also. I have been letteing her out and playing with her for about an hour and then putting her back in her crate for 1-2 hours, then repeating. Is this too much time in the crate? 

Thanks.

Brian


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

sorry to pick on you but this half baked typhoon has given me way too much time at the pc 

but when i see a short post that would require a bunch more Q's from me b4 i could even begin to offer advice, i tend to get sarcastic, so i'll give you my short answer :

puppies require time - if you don't have it you shouldn't have it


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

rick smith said:


> sorry to pick on you but this half baked typhoon has given me way too much time at the pc
> 
> but when i see a short post that would require a bunch more Q's from me b4 i could even begin to offer advice, i tend to get sarcastic, so i'll give you my short answer :
> 
> puppies require time - if you don't have it you shouldn't have it


Really Rick.... if you think i don't know that then you are a moron.

The point of my question is, yes, i have ample time to supervise a puppy. I have a job that leaves me with a ton of spare time, alot more than most people. I fully understand that puppies take ALOT of time. What i wanted to know was, if i have the dog out and have things to do that i can't take the dog with me.. (i.e. run errands, go to the gym, do homework, and tend to my house work) what would be a ideal amount of time to keep her inside the crate? I'm definately not letting her have free reign of the whole house while i'm away.

I haven't been a prick to anyone on the forum, and i would appreciate it if you feel like posting something a douche would say, please refrain from doing so in my thread.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

ok, even tho i may be a moron and a douche, i'll still give you my best answer to your short and somewhat ambiguous question :

"is there a ratio or recommended amount of time that a puppy should be out playing vs. in the crate?"

answer is Yes, of course  .... the generally accepted ratio is 86/26, but i'm bad at math so you better check my numbers  
....but this ratio is breed specific of course 
and you didn't provide that data point unless you assumed i was a mind reader or that the avatar pic was the pup in question

and also be aware this ratio might require further modification depending on what you consider play (inside, outside, interactive, self satisfying, treadmill time, swimming, etc) when it is outside, and what brand of crate you are using, and whether it is stuffed with toys bones or food, etc

does that help ? 

my Q : the moron part i get, but what exactly is a douche when the term is applied to a human ???


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

i would say having it in a crate for a hr or 2 and out of the crate then for a hr or 2 seems to be fine


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I use it to my advantage. If this is a dog for work. I let them play by themselves very little. I take them out to pee, then put them back for about 10-20 minutes, then pull them out again and play intensly for a few minutes, then back to the crate. I'm talkin less than 5 minutes...we can wear a pup out quick.My pups do not get a lot of freedom and do spend some time in the crate. but I try to capitalize on thier desire to be out, I direct and associate it with me. letting them just roll around the yard teaches them that freedom is a right and not very valuable. I teach the dog freedom is limited and very valuable. When I put them back, I have one toy that is thiers, a kong. filled with pb they can lick. It helps teach them to relax in the crate. I also, take the pups everywhere I can. So I can do the same in many different places. Then I can also capitialize on if I see a good place to expose the dog to new things. If your taking the dog out and giving it attention daily...it's about quality not quanity. Teach them how to play with you, have wonderful intense reunions, do some basic food ob, and how to behave in the world.


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Spend some of that spare time to build a kennel.
Take the dog with you every where you can (or squeak by with as he's a puppy (for now)).
Keep the dog with you as much as you can, as James said; 'teach the dog the way in your world'. Everything at this point is (and the near future) training.


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

rick smith said:


> ok, even tho i may be a moron and a douche, i'll still give you my best answer to your short and somewhat ambiguous question :
> 
> "is there a ratio or recommended amount of time that a puppy should be out playing vs. in the crate?"
> 
> ...


I think you forgot to carry a 1 or multiply by ounces of food given per meal. Again... thanks for nothing.


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> i would say having it in a crate for a hr or 2 and out of the crate then for a hr or 2 seems to be fine





James Downey said:


> I use it to my advantage. If this is a dog for work. I let them play by themselves very little. I take them out to pee, then put them back for about 10-20 minutes, then pull them out again and play intensly for a few minutes, then back to the crate. I'm talkin less than 5 minutes...we can wear a pup out quick.My pups do not get a lot of freedom and do spend some time in the crate. but I try to capitalize on thier desire to be out, I direct and associate it with me. letting them just roll around the yard teaches them that freedom is a right and not very valuable. I teach the dog freedom is limited and very valuable. When I put them back, I have one toy that is thiers, a kong. filled with pb they can lick. It helps teach them to relax in the crate. I also, take the pups everywhere I can. So I can do the same in many different places. Then I can also capitialize on if I see a good place to expose the dog to new things. If your taking the dog out and giving it attention daily...it's about quality not quanity. Teach them how to play with you, have wonderful intense reunions, do some basic food ob, and how to behave in the world.





Randy Allen said:


> Spend some of that spare time to build a kennel.
> Take the dog with you every where you can (or squeak by with as he's a puppy (for now)).
> Keep the dog with you as much as you can, as James said; 'teach the dog the way in your world'. Everything at this point is (and the near future) training.


Thank you all.


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Brian,

I know for a fact, if you were a moron, you would NOT ask for some opinions/ideas from some very talented and experienced people on this forum. You would just yank the pup outside and chain it up. Obviously, you do care because you asked. I have a pup at 12 weeks too. I do not need to be with it 24/7. I got the dog to protect my property when I am not there. That will be its job (amongst other things) If I was home all the time then I would protect the property. lol. Anyhow, you have some great answers already. You seem to be adding some variables for the pup to keep entertained. Good luck!!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Thomas H. Elliott said:


> Brian,
> 
> I know for a fact, if you were a moron, you would NOT ask for some opinions/ideas from some very talented and experienced people on this forum. You would just yank the pup outside and chain it up. Obviously, you do care because you asked. I have a pup at 12 weeks too. I do not need to be with it 24/7. I got the dog to protect my property when I am not there. That will be its job (amongst other things) If I was home all the time then I would protect the property. lol. Anyhow, you have some great answers already. You seem to be adding some variables for the pup to keep entertained. Good luck!!


Thomas,

Reread the thread. No one called Brian a Moron
Brian called Rick a Moron and a Douche.
I find if amusing when someone on the WDF a couple of months, starts copping a attitude and lecturing anyone that
doesn't take their inane noob questions seriously.
Just because "you" start a thread don't mean "you" own the thread


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Don't mind Thomas, he wasn't hugged as a child.


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Thomas,
> 
> Reread the thread. No one called Brian a Moron
> Brian called Rick a Moron and a Douche.
> ...


The point of a thread is to ask a question and recieve help. Not to recieve sarcasm or attitude. Rick knew he was being a jerk with his reply. If you are going to be that way, don't reply to any thread. Same with you, Thomas. I'm assuming you chimed in because i called you on the carpet via PM about a homophobic remark you made in a thread i posted in.... am i right?

You can also please not post in my thread unless you have something constructive or helpful. Grow up and stop being a troll.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Brian Hicks said:


> The point of a thread is to ask a question and recieve help. Not to recieve sarcasm or attitude. Rick knew he was being a jerk with his reply. If you are going to be that way, don't reply to any thread. Same with you, Thomas. I'm assuming you chimed in because i called you on the carpet via PM about a homophobic remark you made in a thread i posted in.... am i right?
> 
> You can also please not post in my thread unless you have something constructive or helpful. Grow up and stop being a troll.


No Brian,
The point of most lists (especially WDF?) is to ask questions and accept ANY input you get and NOT to get all bitchy like
a little girl. When anyone doesn't give you the answer you want.
Your reply calling Rick a moron and a douche was a total over reaction to his post.

You can ASSume all you want Brian. There was no homophobic
remark. You stuck your nose into a reply I made to another person and misconstrued the reply. Then you sent me an unsolicited PM trying to act all superior and I told you to fuk off
If you really think you "called me on the carpet" you have a greatly overinflated opinion of your importance.
This ain't YOUR thread. You don't get to control what anyone posts here or anywhere else. The owners and moderators are the only ones that get to dictate what is or is not posted.
Now go look in the mirror and tell yourself how important you are. ROTFLMAO


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## Steve Groen (Aug 22, 2010)

rick smith said:


> my Q : the moron part i get, but what exactly is a douche when the term is applied to a human ???


Too funny, and you're both good sports. The answer to the question is that it's one of the beauties of being a native Californian. Everyone here knows, and it's our secret.

Steve


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## Brian Hicks (May 10, 2011)

Thomas Barriano said:


> No Brian,
> The point of most lists (especially WDF?) is to ask questions and accept ANY input you get and NOT to get all bitchy like
> a little girl. When anyone doesn't give you the answer you want.
> Your reply calling Rick a moron and a douche was a total over reaction to his post.
> ...


First off, i'm not important. I never thought, said, or implied i was. I'm new to working dogs, so please excuse my "inane noob questions". I know i'm not a badass dog trainer such as yourself, but i think if i work on being a badass 6-7 times a day, i might be on your elite level sometime in March, 2017. Seriously, you are the man. 

You are right, i should stop being a little girl about things. I should stop making threads that solicit a straight forward honest answer, but probably on a "inane noob" topic. Then i should sit back and watch as trolls, such as yourself.. although you are the manly awesome badass dog trainer type of troll, come in and spam my thread by being smartass jerks. That should bump my self esteem up to a level that would make me feel superior and important?

How about this.... why don't we just measure our manhood and make a thread about that? I'm sure such a badass dog trainer.. errr... handler is more appropriate, you would have the biggest and best i'm sure right? You could tell me what to do with it and feel even miore manly then you already do. I mean, a badass such as yourself must eat nails for breakfast, you must have ice water in your veins, you must piss excellence.

Just remember, before your spam my thread again, that most people are not born fuking awesome badass dog handlers like you are. Most people have to ask "inane nobb" questions to learn. Maybe i wouldn't have to ask these questions via this forum if we lived closer. That way i could come over and have you berate me in person. A 1 on 1 training session might make you feel more manly and badass about giving advise... 

Now i'll digress... please Thomas, I'm asking polietly here, after you give your rebuttal to this post (which i expect will be full of testosterone and manlyness), please do not post in any more of my threads. Your comments are not only unwanted, but will also be ignored. I don't need you as my fanboy, spamming my threads. If you want to be pals in real life, send me a PM and maybe we can skype on sunday mornings over crapes and jasmin/lemon whole leaf tea.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Brian

Your reply to my post was almost as off topic and ridiculous as your reply to Ricks posting
"puppies require time - if you don't have it you shouldn't have it"
and you calling him a moron and a douche.
Spend a little more time training your puppy, instead of trying to lecture anyone on how to behave and you may be able to call
yourself a trainer someday.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

let me be perfectly clear to the OP

i am old fashioned and do not agree that any question is a good question
i believe there is such a thing as stupid questions.....usually they fall into that category when the asker could easily find an answer with a little effort, and i am not into spoon feeding.....and that goes for anyone i train with too, and they can usually handle that
- or that the Q is so vague and ambiguous that an answer is impossible without first clarifying a lot of things, which is what i considered this OP
---and i am too lazy to spend a lot of my time, which i usually get paid for, to ask more questions so i can them give a free answer, that will just be considered an "opinion" and given the same value i gave it for ... nothing
- i DO notice that people who are PAYING me to train with me usually take my advice a lot more seriously 
- i don't have a damn problem with that either 

- sometimes i have actually helped people, and many have been nice enuff to take the time and give me a PM "thanx", which does make me feel good ... i'm like a dog that way.... reinforcement works for me

- and i've made my share of stoopid comments and gotten called on it ... guess my navy training gave me thicker skin than the average dog owner these days cause it doesn't bother me

- i monitor this forum to learn, provide what experience i have had, and get entertained.....in that order ... it's not a chat room for me, and and people who can't handle a little flak should start one up to take up their pissing and moaning where someone might GAF 
](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Rick,

I really don't want to spam Brian's private and personal topic .........

but are you some kind of Moron? ;-)

Seriously, I agree with every thing you posted. Must mean I'm a moron and a douche too?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

This thread is some funny shit :lol: I couldn't say which post was the funniest :lol:, _The point of a thread is to ask a question and recieve help. Not to recieve sarcasm or attitude. _Now that one was really pretty funny!


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Thomas
i'm definitely NOT a moron

i'm a "fuking awesome badass dog handler"
and i didn't learn it, i was born that way
i make Cesar look like a wuss
i can alpha roll a hyena
to me, bite suits are for wimps
ok, i lied


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## Steve Groen (Aug 22, 2010)

He can alpha roll a hyena. If he bed your woman, you'd brag to your friends. He is the most interesting man in the world.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Steve
not that it matters, but i'm not only a douche, i'm a SoCal native douche 
born in Lynwood, but grew up in Westchester and used to surf at D&W, Playa del Rey beach and Rosecrans in Manhattan ....last time I was in PDR, it was a gangbanger hang out at night :-(

could almost chuck a rock on the LAX runways we lived that close, and our high school was right under the departures which drowned out the teachers quite a bit  
.... sister went to San Diego State
.....my "dorm mates" were Lew Alcindor and Mike Warren, so u know i'm also an OLD douche


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

" Lew Alcindor":-o
DAMN! I thought I was old! :grin:


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

You guys got some catching up to do. A month or so back I was a douche bag, but, in the last week, I have achieved the status of WDF asshole, and a douche twice. Give y'all something to shoot for. :grin:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I didn't have a crate when my first GSD was a puppy and, when working in the garden, I'd tie his line round my waist and weed - next to me, little Buster was weeding, too in his preferred manner! I also tied a Beisswurst to a rail between door jambs ( my press-up bar) and he would play with this for a long time each day.

I carried him to the woods, set him down and let him explore -if he missed me, he never looked around, just set his nose to ground and sniffed me out (a good indication).

I already had a crate for the younger GSD thank God! He scrambled over 1,20 metres at 8 weeks. I took him out for 20 minutes or so, built an "obstacle garden" for him, let him splash in a plastic pool, let him search out kibble hidden under plant pots, etc, walk over diagonally placed planks, etc. He'd sleep in his crate for abot 2 hours after that.

I don't know who had more fun, the pup or Gill!!

20 minutes "brainwork" tires a pup out and the learning effect is not to be sniffed at.

Empty fizzy drink plastic bottlrs, tied up or free provide endless entertainment.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Soooo, are there any more opinions on crate time v. play time?

DFrost


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Why, do you want to add yours in conclusion?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Soooo, are there any more opinions on crate time v. play time?
> 
> DFrost


There is NO precise percentage. It all depends on the dog and the handler. Like in any protection training, NO training is better then bad training. Twenty minutes of good engagement training with the dog is better then two hours of cluster fuk tug play with bad presentations and bad timing. The most important thing is to learn to read your own dog and not depend on advise from strangers on the Internet. Get with a sport club (Schutzhund, Ring, Agility, whatever) and get advise/help from experienced people who can observe you and your dog over time. The most important thing (IMO) if you're on your first dog, STFU and listen to anyone with more experience. All advise may not be appropriate for every dog BUT any well intentioned advise is something to consider.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

The only thing I will say is do whatever you want, just remember, puppies are like sponges and they learn nothing in a crate other than to be quiet and not bother anyone. Use some common sense. If you thought what you were doing was a great thing, I doubt you would be asking opinions.... unless you are looking for positive reinforcemnt click, click.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

rick smith said:


> Thomas
> i'm definitely NOT a moron
> 
> i'm a "fuking awesome badass dog handler"
> ...


Rick

I can alpha roll a hyena too.............or am I thinking about my Dutch Shepard ? I keep getting the two confused ;-)


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## Steve Groen (Aug 22, 2010)

rick smith said:


> Steve
> not that it matters, but i'm not only a douche, i'm a SoCal native douche
> born in Lynwood, but grew up in Westchester and used to surf at D&W, Playa del Rey beach and Rosecrans in Manhattan ....last time I was in PDR, it was a gangbanger hang out at night :-(
> 
> ...


Rick,

Thanks for the post. I'm not far behind! Believe me. 

Living in LA in the Sixties must have been quite the adventure. Fast times at Ridgemont High. 

I'm from Oakland orginally. Mom went to Oakland High and dad went to Willits High School in Mendicino County. Stepdad, who also attended Oakland High, was a football coach who moved us to UofIowa in Iowa City when I was in 9th grade (sea change), so that's where I attended high school, but I'm still a diehard, yet nearing perpetually-embarrassed Raiders fan. 

Getting me started on basketball and speaking of Alcindor and Warren, I attend a lot of basketball games here in the county, including Aztec games. (No, I don't crate my Malinois when I'm gone. She's not a puppy, and she knows she's got a good gig going without destroying the furniture and the wrath incurred thereafter.) The high school game isn't quite LA ball, but decent. In fact, the best ball player I've ever seen in high school was Torrey Pines' Chase Budinger, who now plays for Houston. SD Lincoln's been tearing up Division II statewide lately. 

Anyway, one of the guys I go to games with is Neville Sanger, who was Kareem's and Warren's teammate. You might have known him if all of the team lived in the same dorms. He was Judd Buechler's coach at Poway High before Judd went to UofAriz. Lots of Wooden stories as you might expect, but it's always good fun. There's encyclopedic knowledge of sports trivia in that group (as I struggle to throw in a stat or two I read in that day's newspaper) over Mexican food before the game. That's what this old farts does for fun anymore. Everything else is illegal. 

Good hearing from you, and cheers,

Steve


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I didn't have a crate when my first GSD was a puppy and, when working in the garden, I'd tie his line round my waist and weed ...



Tethering to me is something I wish I had learned about decades before I did.


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Thomas,
> 
> Reread the thread. No one called Brian a Moron
> Brian called Rick a Moron and a Douche.
> ...


 ____________________________________________________________________________________

Yes Tommy, reread the thread. I never said anyone called anyone a moron. I just plainly stated that if he was a moron.....you can finish reading the rest my good man. :-\"


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

maggie fraser said:


> This thread is some funny shit :lol: I couldn't say which post was the funniest :lol:, _The point of a thread is to ask a question and recieve help. Not to recieve sarcasm or attitude. _Now that one was really pretty funny!


 _________________________________________________________________________________
It is funny Maggie. I love it. You are so correct. The point of a thread is to receive help. I am sure there are others out there who want to ask a question and are afraid because they may word it wrong or someone jump on them about it.....(My eyes are full of tears from laughing so hard and I have a couple of pages to go)


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## Thomas H. Elliott (Aug 6, 2011)

Don Turnipseed said:


> You guys got some catching up to do. A month or so back I was a douche bag, but, in the last week, I have achieved the status of WDF asshole, and a douche twice. Give y'all something to shoot for. :grin:


 _________________________________________________________________________________
I hate it when someone sets the bar sooooo high!!!


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Thomas H. Elliott said:


> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Yes Tommy, reread the thread. I never said anyone called anyone a moron. I just plainly stated that if he was a moron.....you can finish reading the rest my good man. :-\"


Brian called Rick a Moron and Douche. I don't know or care if you called Brian a moron or not. IMO Brian's WDF behavior leaves a lot to be desired


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Thomas H. Elliott said:


> _________________________________________________________________________________
> It is funny Maggie. I love it. You are so correct. The point of a thread is to receive help. I am sure there are others out there who want to ask a question and are afraid because they may word it wrong or someone jump on them about it.....(My eyes are full of tears from laughing so hard and I have a couple of pages to go)




The point of a thread is to open up a topic for discussion, not to demand and expect. Your manners could do with a little development and practice, as well as your expectations on life seriously curbed.

Anyway, I've never used a crate, don't really like them for a regular housing for a dog at all. I'm with Rick, if you don't have the time for a pup, or the nouse to know what to do with it when you get it...maybe you should get a stuffed dog instead, or maybe search the board prior for related threads (of which there are a few pertaining to crates and crating) if you're so easily wound up. .


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> The point of a thread is to open up a topic for discussion, not to demand and expect. Your manners could do with a little development and practice, as well as your expectations on life seriously curbed.


Hi Maggie

"The point of a thread is to open up a topic for discussion, not to demand and expect."

Can we get that posted at the top of the log in page?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Hi Maggie
> 
> "The point of a thread is to open up a topic for discussion, not to demand and expect."
> 
> Can we get that posted at the top of the log in page?


Nah, where would the fun in that be then, we'd probably never ever hear from these nobs....oops there goes my spelling again :wink:.


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