# Where is your pup at 10 months?



## Austin Porter

I need some input please. Where are your pups at in bite work at 10 months? How much pressure are you putting on them, if any at all? I understand all dogs move at different rates and some dogs have it and others dont. My pup has moments of greatness and other times im left scratching my head. Just wondered where everyone else is with their pup. Thanks


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## Tiago Fontes

I have one female (GSD) on the intermediate sleeve... Very slow maturing.

One male (GSD) which was on the suit by 8 months old... 


It all depends on the maturity rate of the dog. However, I dont believe the female will even be close to the male's quality. Time will tell and we shall see.


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## Thomas Barriano

Austin Porter said:


> I need some input please. Where are your pups at in bite work at 10 months? How much pressure are you putting on them, if any at all? I understand all dogs move at different rates and some dogs have it and others dont. My pup has moments of greatness and other times im left scratching my head. Just wondered where everyone else is with their pup. Thanks


It all depends on the dog and the breed and the sex and your relationship and how much time you spend with it and what kind of toy or tug you use and how good you are at training and the health of the puppy and the genetics of the puppy and..................................... 

You really need to get someone with experience to look at the puppy in person and evaluate it. If you have "moments of greatness" then there is something to build on. If the puppy isn't into it? Put him up and bring him out later. Maybe you just need "engagement" with your dog? Check out some of the
Michael Ellis DVD's


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## andreas broqvist

This it traning from when she was 10 mont.
Just Fun traning, let her get easy bites, some stick hits and objekts. Notering hard, no hard ob ore corections. Just Fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njgLKv5JIK0&feature=youtube_gdata_player


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O03z57UD1I8&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Austin Porter

Thomas Barriano said:


> It all depends on the dog and the breed and the sex and your relationship and how much time you spend with it and what kind of toy or tug you use and how good you are at training and the health of the puppy and the genetics of the puppy and.....................................
> 
> You really need to get someone with experience to look at the puppy in person and evaluate it. If you have "moments of greatness" then there is something to build on. If the puppy isn't into it? Put him up and bring him out later. Maybe you just need "engagement" with your dog? Check out some of the
> Michael Ellis DVD's



Thanks for the reply Thomas... I have most of Ellis' dvds, a lot of good stuff in there, spent a small fortune. As far as experienced help goes, my mentor is a former Military K9 handler/trainer and is now a police k9 handler. I think he has around 25 years experience under his belt and I get to pick his bain a couple times a week! Lol 

Most of the dogs I'm around are finished adults so I wanted to see how everyone elses pups were coming along.


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## Tiago Fontes

Which dog do you have? GSD, Mal, Dutchie?


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## Austin Porter

Tiago Fontes said:


> Which dog do you have? GSD, Mal, Dutchie?


He is a DS


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## Tiago Fontes

Good luck with him.


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## Lisa Brazeau

It's not time to call it quits, but I would ease off any pressure. Ten months is not mature enough to handle pressure for a lot of dogs. Make the dog feel big and strong, it'll bring the fight later.


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## Brett Bowen

Like already said it all depends. My mal was on the suit at around 10 months and doing really well. So well in fact that my trainer thought he was older than and then when he started having problems he realized he still has some (a lot) maturing to do. Plus his nerve isn't rock solid so when things started getting more "real" and not so much of a game he slipped backwards. So we're having to take a step or two back and build him back up. There are dogs in the club I'm a member of that are on forearms sleeves, inner arms, rags, around that age. Just depends on the dog. 

If it's there go with it, but don't force it, I think we came close to "ruining" my dog putting too much on him too soon. He was basically a 15 year old punk and got a butt whipping his first time out. slow and steady wins the race.


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## jeremy anderson

This is my 10.5 month old female GSD. She had foundation work when she was younger then basically "put up" for the last 3-4 months. This was Monday night, her first time back out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tnwpga7hSo&list=UUfeM4oGXp00lzqetsS40TZA&index=1&feature=plcp


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## Brian Anderson

jeremy anderson said:


> This is my 10.5 month old female GSD. She had foundation work when she was younger then basically "put up" for the last 3-4 months. This was Monday night, her first time back out.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tnwpga7hSo&list=UUfeM4oGXp00lzqetsS40TZA&index=1&feature=plcp


nice pup jeremy! Thats a nice looking training area too..


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## Nicole Stark

I don't know if this will help but I don't have anything recent (she's 10 months now) but this is my Dutchie pup Wasabi at 7 months. The video is of two separate sessions during which we were working on her outting from the sleeve for the first time as well as encouraging other aspects of her work to remain intact along the way. 

I enjoy working with her very much. I presently have her on a 4-2 or 3-1 rotation for the winter, which basically means I work her twice in a four week period or once in a three week period. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuVkiAwQjmg


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## Martine Loots

Every dog is different and training circumstances can differ too.

When we have a pup from 6 wks of age he gets a good foundation, so will already know a lot when he's 10mths old. And even then there can be a big difference as some dogs mature fast and others take more time.
My husband's dog Fun already did the whole NVBK program off leash at 11mths, except for the muzzle object guard and the stopped attack, whereas my young dog didn't even know a leash when I got him at 9mths. Had to start from scratch with him.

As long as there is a positive evolution and no "ugly" things, then it's ok


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## Daniel Lybbert

Nicole Stark;316631
I enjoy working with her very much. I presently have her on a 4-2 or 3-1 rotation for the winter said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuVkiAwQjmg[/URL]


That doesnt seem like very much dog training to me. What is your reasoning behind this?


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## rick smith

so what does your mentor say about your Q of when to start pressure ?
... sounds like you feel he is highly qualified. but i would add that it has also been my experience that some mwd handlers work great with mature working breeds but have NO clue how to handle a pup well

since you already said you know all dogs are different, you already know whatever someone else does/did with their dog will have absolutely nothing to do with yours. 
-- i just don't understand why you would care about other 10month puppy bite work and then somehow relate that to your situation ?

if you want more accurate opinions on your training and your dog, you could try making some decent length videos of complete sessions from start to finish rather than a two min "highlight" film


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## Daniel Lybbert

Rick that was a good answer


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## Joby Becker

i think it really depends on your goals. and what you plan to do with the dog. also what your interests are..I have seen dogs that have not taken a single bite at 10 months that turned out great. I have also seen dogs that were doing advanced things at 8 months that turned out great..


I will say most problems that I see are caused by going to fast, or starting too young, or other errors made.


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## Joby Becker

another point..

if you are scratching your head, then that is the sign of a problem, in my opinion...you need to be able to analyze and read the dog and what is happening with him...all variables considered. if you cannot, then your mentor should be able to do this, if he is that good, and should be able to give you his theories of what is going on...*if he sees it and* is honest with you..about mistakes being made, most likely by him...if there are mistakes occuring...and he is working your dog.


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## Mario Fernandez

It is the end product that really matters. Everybody always feel that their is a time line what their dogs should be doing at a certain age. Take your time, have fun in no time you will be reflecting back how time flies by.


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## jeremy anderson

Brian Anderson said:


> nice pup jeremy! Thats a nice looking training area too..


Thanks, I'm excited about what she's shown & others have said so far.
The training area is at a members house. A lot of room & he keeps it real nice.

To the OP.
After I posted that I went through some videos of my older dog & she was doing more than this one at a younger age but she was never "put up" like this one was. I think different dogs, different training will have different outcomes.


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## Jason Davis

I train FR with a DS. At 10 months Sniper had all of the FRIII program (not perfect of course) except for the stopped attack. I don't recommend it to my clients, but I put a lot of pressure on my personal dog and I require a dog who can handle it. Sniper was competeing at FRI shortly after his first birthday. My uncle owned his brother, from a previous litter, who was a titled FRIII at 20 months, so obviously this is a trait of the lines. At the end of the day, it depends on the dog. I'm fortunate enough to own a dog that is capable of handling a lot of pressure in order to move him along quickly, without ruining what could of been by allowing him to mature first.


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## Martine Loots

Jason Davis said:


> I train FR with a DS. At 10 months Sniper had all of the FRIII program (not perfect of course) except for the stopped attack. I don't recommend it to my clients, but I put a lot of pressure on my personal dog and I require a dog who can handle it. Sniper was competeing at FRI shortly after his first birthday. My uncle owned his brother, from a previous litter, who was a titled FRIII at 20 months, so obviously this is a trait of the lines. At the end of the day, it depends on the dog.* I'm fortunate enough to own a dog that is capable of handling a lot of pressure in order to move him along quickly*, without ruining what could of been by allowing him to mature first.


Move quickly really has nothing to do with the quality of the dog.

My husband's old dog, One van de Lopes, didn't even bite at 11mths of age. He just stood there and watched while the decoy tried to agitate him. Everybody told him to get rid of the dog as he had an 8mths old to that bit like an alligator. They said he was crazy when he said he was washing the 8mths old and keeping the other one. But One became the youngest NVBK Belgian Champion ever. He won the championship 2 weeks after he turned 2yrs of age and became Provincial Champion twice too and Vice National Champion Cat1. He was a very strong dog that could handle a lot of pressure.

On the other hand Fun was a very quick maturer and knew a lot already at 11mths. He's a very strong dog that can handle a lot of pressure too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGueOOlp-pM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew2aH_ednCs

Both dogs were completely different as youngsters but still they both were a perfect match for my husband.


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## Jason Davis

Martine Loots said:


> Move quickly really has nothing to do with the quality of the dog.
> 
> My husband's old dog, One van de Lopes, didn't even bite at 11mths of age. He just stood there and watched while the decoy tried to agitate him. Everybody told him to get rid of the dog as he had an 8mths old to that bit like an alligator. They said he was crazy when he said he was washing the 8mths old and keeping the other one. But One became the youngest NVBK Belgian Champion ever. He won the championship 2 weeks after he turned 2yrs of age and became Provincial Champion twice too and Vice National Champion Cat1. He was a very strong dog that could handle a lot of pressure.
> 
> On the other hand Fun was a very quick maturer and knew a lot already at 11mths. He's a very strong dog that can handle a lot of pressure too:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGueOOlp-pM
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew2aH_ednCs
> 
> Both dogs were completely different as youngsters but still they both were a perfect match for my husband.


Oh don't get me wrong. I don't believe for a second that Sniper is higher quality of a dog because I was able to move along quickly. I was just saying I was fortunate enough to have a dog that I was able to move along quickly with and could handle the pressure of moving quickly. I also know a few dogs at 10-11 months would just stand there or show minimal interest in the decoy or agitation, but now are absolute power houses. Every dog is different and as I get older, I become more patient ;-) The more experience I get learning from others is that there is no set pace or expectations for dog training. You have to train accordingly to each dog. 

P.S. I love Fun!!!!!


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## Nicole Stark

Daniel Lybbert said:


> That doesnt seem like very much dog training to me. What is your reasoning behind this?


That's easy, my reasoning behind it is because training this dog in SchH holds limited value or interest for me and is in no way a priority of mine. Course, if you want something deeper and relative to why I train her at all if that's the case, then to that I would say that the dog hasn't required more training to achieve what few training goals I have set for her. 

Frankly, I'd rather see her doing detection work as opposed to messing about in some silly sport and that's where I have been applying my effort and focus with this particular dog. I like her very much but she I believe she'd be rather useful in a more meaningful capacity.


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## Christopher Jones

Martine Loots said:


> Move quickly really has nothing to do with the quality of the dog.
> 
> My husband's old dog, One van de Lopes, didn't even bite at 11mths of age. He just stood there and watched while the decoy tried to agitate him. Everybody told him to get rid of the dog as he had an 8mths old to that bit like an alligator. They said he was crazy when he said he was washing the 8mths old and keeping the other one. But One became the youngest NVBK Belgian Champion ever. He won the championship 2 weeks after he turned 2yrs of age and became Provincial Champion twice too and Vice National Champion Cat1. He was a very strong dog that could handle a lot of pressure.
> 
> On the other hand Fun was a very quick maturer and knew a lot already at 11mths. He's a very strong dog that can handle a lot of pressure too:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGueOOlp-pM
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew2aH_ednCs
> 
> Both dogs were completely different as youngsters but still they both were a perfect match for my husband.


I think it is either the Dutch or the Belgians that have the saying, "The trees that grow the slowest grow the strongest". So long as your not seeing nerve issues, and the bloodlines tell you that these dogs tend to mature slower I dont mind. I do prefer a faster maturing dog, because I am an impatient person and like to use the drive to expose them to different things. 
If I see avoidence, nerve issues or sensitivity in any form, the dog is gone. 
Who would personally prefer, One or Funs type of maturity?


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## Timothy Saunders

Hey Christopher I think I would prefer Fun. I would like Martine to explain what Joao saw in One that made him ignore what would seem to be and easy choice the other way.


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## Martine Loots

Christopher Jones said:


> I think it is either the Dutch or the Belgians that have the saying, "The trees that grow the slowest grow the strongest". So long as your not seeing nerve issues, and the bloodlines tell you that these dogs tend to mature slower I dont mind. I do prefer a faster maturing dog, because I am an impatient person and like to use the drive to expose them to different things.
> If I see avoidence, nerve issues or sensitivity in any form, the dog is gone.
> *Who would personally prefer, One or Funs type of maturity*?


With One, it had nothing to do with maturity. Joâo said that "if that dog decides to start biting, I'll have a top notch dog".
He had such an ego that he didn't bother to react to the decoy's agitation. The dog was loaded with confidence. Very strong character. He was like "as long as you dont bother me, I couldn't care less".
In fact the reason why he started biting was when the decoy accidentally hit him with the whip he was agitating the dog with. Then the dog looked at him like "hey WTF" and grabbed him as if he'd wanted to kill him and from that moment onward the bitework training worked like a charm. At 18mths he became club champion and at 2yrs he was Belgian Champion.

I guess Joâo liked both dogs just as much.


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## Thomas H. Elliott

Austin,

Glad you asked this question.My DS, Ecko, is just shy of 8 months. Sometimes I feel he should be doing this or doing that and then I ask myself, "Why do I compare him to other dogs?" He is what he is. What do I want? Is it better to say he knows 50 different commands but gets confused on most of them or he knows 5 like the back of his paw. This dog will bite. I know it. He has been nipping at me since I got him. Besides, he is a Van Leeuwen/Pegge pup. I am keeping it fun, fun, fun (as long as he listens...if he knows the command he better respond) and bonding, bonding, bonding. In time, I have an ex K9 handler who know the DS breed, we will build Ecko to his maximum. Lots of time for training. I do not want the first dog that got all the titles in the world by age one. I could care less....good luck Austin. Enjoy the ride,not the destination. TomCat


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## Christopher Jones

Martine Loots said:


> With One, it had nothing to do with maturity. Joâo said that "if that dog decides to start biting, I'll have a top notch dog".
> He had such an ego that he didn't bother to react to the decoy's agitation. The dog was loaded with confidence. Very strong character. He was like "as long as you dont bother me, I couldn't care less".
> In fact the reason why he started biting was when the decoy accidentally hit him with the whip he was agitating the dog with. Then the dog looked at him like "hey WTF" and grabbed him as if he'd wanted to kill him and from that moment onward the bitework training worked like a charm. At 18mths he became club champion and at 2yrs he was Belgian Champion.
> 
> I guess Joâo liked both dogs just as much.


So was he bred very often and did he pass this same thing onto many of his offspring?


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## Jerry Lyda

Got to wait for two more months. Right now he has a sore (pano) right front. He is biting a sleeve now though, before he got sore @ 7 months.


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## Austin Porter

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post! There was a lot of good video and information posted. I'm working on getting some good vids of my pup, ill post the link when I get it uploaded.


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