# how to increase fat in diet



## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I've got a dog that I was feeding Diamond Extreme Athlete to but having to switch him off of it. I was using it because of the high fat to help keep the condition on this dog. The other food I switched him to has the fat ratio at about 12% and this dog is rapidly getting to skinny. What are some things I can add to the kibble to bump up the fat content?


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

my mistake, the new food is actually a 30% protein, 20% fat mix (4health performance) but he's still losing weight. Highly active and 'busy' all the time which isn't helping.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Calories per cup is what you should try to match the old food, but a guy in my club use MVP supplements (muscle builder) and I had to tell him to stop because his dog is getting fat lol.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Bacon or other meat fats? Salmon oil capsules? Coconut oil? One thing about adding fat to the diet is it makes the other end more messy, at least until adapted.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Sarah, I agree with Meg. 

What you end up doing I suppose depends upon what you are willing to do and of course what works for the dog. Sometimes the low hanging fruit approach works best. 

If you want to add something that's part of the feeding process and not just a basic add on, take a look at satan balls.

I imagine that another food change is not something you can or want to consider?

BTW, there is a reason I am not giving you a direct answer. Everyone has a different idea about how to approach this. For some it might just be as simple as adding a bit more food to each feeding. For others they make it into what seems like a small science project.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Be careful of bacon. 

Often it's way to high in salt.

One thing that helped keep weight on one of my GSDs that had EPI was sardines (in water).

I added them in small pieces as the dog adjusted to them and worked my adult dog up to a can a week. 

Again, this is what worked for MY dog.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I really hate having to supplement kibble because my dog isn't doing well on it. I'd rather switch to something that works, but sometimes that's not possible. (For me, foster dogs and food provided by rescue) I've heard all the suggestions. Eggs, cottage cheese, pasta, but you'll get the biggest calorie bang (by weight) by adding more fat. I used coconut oil for one dog - cheap enough at costco and came in a nice big tub. 

When Ronan, my malinois was young, keeping weight on him was a challenge. What worked for him was Orijen - high protein, high fat, (38 /18 ) high price. But anything else I ended up increasing portion size so much that there was little saving in cheaper food, and also I don't like feeding large portions. Three cups at a time is too much food in his belly.
Acana is a bit cheaper and comes in a sport and agility formula that is 35/22

Nicole's suggestion of satin balls will work too - there's lots of online recipes - basically a mix of ground meat, cereal, and fat. Dogs love them. I can post the recipe if you'd like.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Answers to questions:


Yeah, I'm not going with bacon grease anytime soon. I remember, years ago, adding it on a regular basis to the bowls, along with feeding pig ears, and the dogs having the runs and poop soup. All the dogs ended up with butt rash. I only consider it now if the dog is constipated.


The current food is a 30/20 mix. Some have suggested increasing the protein element over the fat backing up Khoi's suggestion. I have found that feeding bully sticks can add condition to a dog pretty fast.


The breeder suggested Oijuin as well as adding fish oil to the kibble. Bob, thanks for the idea about Sardines. I wouldn't have thought of that.


Leslie, please post your satan ball recipe.


The dogs are pretty much on free choice. I put out the "normal" amount ( right now approx. 2c twice a day) and they eat it at their own pace. If one is feeling particularly peckish, then they will make the rounds and clean out the other pans. I've never had a dog overeat or gorge themselves sick. But if they act hungry, I will put down more food. Right now Hoss isn't acting hungry. I thought of worms but that's a negative.




More info about the situation: I had stopped feeding the Diamond because Gus was having symptoms of his food allergy again. Scratching up his face and chewing his pads. It took me a while to twig to the problem as I was switching between the two foods every couple of days and was slow making the connection. Hoss was also having a similar reaction. Sam was less still but clearly something was happening. Now neither Sam nor Hoss have never had any allergy problems. Since I've totally stopped feeding the Diamond, everyone is clearing up. 
At this time, I am suspecting a bad sack of food as I have never had a problem in the past and I've feed Diamond for years and never had any issues but this was the last sack of a batch I had purchased in the late spring of 2017. I'm trashing the rest of the bag and once everyone is stable will run a test feed with a fresh bad of the Extreme Athlete to see if it pops up again.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

If you try it be sure and use the sardines packed in water. 

Those packed in oil can just add to the runny poop. 

Great Omega 3 and calcium with the Sardines also. 

Not always found in pond raised fish such as talapia (white fish).


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Sarah, I think I've got a bit of strangeness going on the brain at the moment. So bear with me because I had some trouble tracking your response. In this moment, I am feeling very much like a guy because whatever you said makes sense in the parts they were written in but at the end I thought.. so, what's the situation?

It's not you, it's me. Really. I got the request for the satan balls recipe, but past that I realized I didn't leave any bread crumbs to find my way back. Nevermind that though. 

No bacon grease. You want the satan balls recipe. What else?


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Nicole,


I did go internet hopping and found a recipe for Satin Balls. I'm not sure how they got that name but the first recipe I pulled up, I was bummed. It contained ingredients like wheat germ, and oatmeal. All which contain gluten. So went shopping again and found one that's gluten free. I gained weight just reading the ingredients. Can't wait to wipe up a batch and see how it works in real life.


Some of my posts tend to jump around a bit. This one is a bit of a mystery with me and as I type stuff, the brain hits the gears and connections get made as I ponder how to put stuff into words.


Bob, that's about reminding me of the oil. That probably would have missed my attention until the poopies began.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I can relate Sarah, I have a pretty active mind. Endless thinking and about anything imaginable it seems.

I'm (not the devil dog, me) in the group of needing to seek gluten free sources so I was going to suggest finding GF oats. As to the function of the wheat germ, I haven't looked into that yet but one thought occurred to me as a potential suitable substitute might be flax meal.

I'll look into that later.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

This should help with the thought I had about flax meal as a substitute for wheat germ in the recipe. Good luck.

Flax Seed Vs. Wheat Germ - Fresh Food Perspectives


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nicole, put the bong away when your on the computer! :twisted: :wink:


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Sarah, here's the recipe I have.

1 lb ground beef
1 cup multigrain cereal. (I use rice crispies, because that's what I have on hand)
2 tbsp oil (I use coconut or olive)
3 tbsp molasses
1 tbsp gelatine
1/2 cup rolled oats
1/4 cup wheat germ
2 tbsp flax oil (I never have this, so just leave it out)
1 beaten egg. ( I crush the shell and add) 

Portion into balls (or tubes, or patties) and freeze 

I use the recipe as a starting point. Leave out or substitute whatever looks problematic. Wheat germ not good - maybe try oat bran, or flax meal as Nicole suggested. I would tweak fat content (type and amount) depending on if you use lean or regular ground beef and what your dogs can tolerate without digestive issues. I have also made this with ground chicken or whatever was on sale at the store.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Nicole, put the bong away when your on the computer! :twisted: :wink:


Hahaha


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

this was the one I found for gluten-free


10 lbs of ground beef
1 large tub of 4% fat cottage cheese
500 gm of cream cheese
1 1/4 cup olive oil
1 1/2 cup unsulphered molasses
10 raw eggs including the shells
10 envelopes of unflavored gelatin
a pinch of salt (I'm going with 1 tsp of salt)


Mix, portion out servings, freeze. Defrost in frig as needed.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Pretty sure my dogs wouldn't turn their noses up at either recipe.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

any idea of how big the balls should be? None of the recipes seem to state. 


The ones I just made were about the size of a small fist. Flattened them out between wax paper and froze.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

doesn't anyone think "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" applies to more than just behaviors ?


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I'd make the balls about as big as your dog can gulp down in one bite. Too big and you have to deal with more raw meat mess as you feed, and they take longer to thaw. Too small is just too much prep effort, for me anyway. All those little tiny balls on cookie sheets... I used my patty maker. (Does anyone else remember the Patty Stacker from K-Tel?) Lol


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

is this a dog who's required to burn a zillion calories and work EXTREMELY hard (competition sled dog, weight pull competition dog, etc), or a family pet, or a dog who will be required to run a few miles a week ?

is it growing ? mature ?

is the "skinny" part affecting performance in a measurable way, and are you monitoring performance to know if it is ?

if it's bright eyed, high drive with fire in the gut, motivated to work, happy …...and skinny, it doesn't automatically mean there’s a nutrition issue caused by a fat deficiency in the diet.

if the problem is allergy based, the solution may not be to add more fat in the diet

i'm a firm believer that "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" applies to nutrition too. i've seen plenty of super healthy dogs who showed a LOT of ribs. i've also seen some buffed looking dogs who were slugs. also seen some very healthy dogs fed crappy kibble and very unhealthy dogs fed high priced super kibble with numerous nutrional supplements added. that’s why i’m a believer that many people overlook the genetics that might be at play.

Sarah, you already have a LOT of knowledge on nutrition and have probably heard about most of the options that will be posted, but if you aren't keeping just as close tabs on performance factors too, focusing on nutrition alone might give you a better looking but not better performing dog. this is not the first thread of this type and i’m surprised that analyzing and comparing performance is never discussed

in my experience of dogs i've considered healthy, it's been easier to add weight to a dog compared to losing weight, and when you can see it, it often means there's too much of it, then a vicious circle to manage an overweight dog begins.

all i’m saying is to look at the whole picture and not fixate on one issue. and of course i’ll restate that what works for one dog may not work the same with yours…….because of genetics, work requirements and many other issues you probably are already aware of 

i’ve noticed that oxtails have always added weight to dogs i’ve fed them to, especially when soaked in a raw egg to add more protein, and i’m somewhat surprised they haven’t been mentioned. ….. maybe the raw feeders have stayed away from posting.

i will also add, mwd’s are on VERY strict kibble based diets that many of you would not consider “nutritious”, and handlers are restricted from playing around with dietary supplements. allergies and weight problems happen, but from the ones i’ve been around i haven’t seen many of either. how much is due to breeding and how much is due to nutrition would be hard to confirm either way.

don’t feel a need to answer any of my questions…..it’s just food for thought and hoping you can keep an open mind to a bigger picture and keep performance in it as well as weight.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Rick, That's true. There is a lot to think about when dealing with condition. Genetics do play a role even among dogs of the same breed. Most are to quick to think a fat dog is a healthy dog and a dog in "field condition" as being emaciated and starved. Just a difference of a couple of pounds can make a huge difference in physical appearance.


Hoss typically runs #3 on the Purina score. I try to keep him between 3 and 4. Just to put some perspective on my thought process. This is something everyone needs to do before reaching for the supplements.


So Hoss is normally a solid 3, and "fat" at a 4/5. The issue here is that he was now a 2 and staying there. You could visually see his ribs all the way to his elbows, his hip bones looked like Kermit the Frog eyes, and you could see the top of the vertebra all the way from his pelvis, up his back to his shoulders. His flank was sucked up to his loin which was a shelf sticking out. His face was getting angular. True his coat was clean and bright, good energy, no signs of illness but I felt that waiting until the dog physically lagging or until other physical signs of poor health (change in coat, etc) was a bit of closing the barn door after the horse is gone. 


Add to that that the dogs were not eating well and showing signs of hunger but refusing the kibble. Which, curiously, was not easily corrected. Once my dogs made the connection that the food was making them ill, they stop eating until absolutely necessary. When I changed the food, they still didn't eat right away. It took a couple of days but the new food is very low in fat. (I took them off the 4health brand also) and the limited ingredient one is 25/13 mix which is to low to bring Hoss back up to a 3


Everything else you wrote is correct. Just throwing more food at a dog may not be the correct answer or even an option. There's a lot of things folks need to think about.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Update on Hoss.


The satin ball folks were adamant about watching the weight gain when you feed them. OMG were they right. Hoss was getting one patty a day about 4in across, 1/4-3/8in thick. After 5 days, he was looking super. When you live with the dog day in and day out, you see things that others don't see but you also miss stuff that occurred so gradually that it can take an outsider to see. Ha, I thought his energy was "good". I now realize he was really sucking bottom. Now that he's 'back', he's a maniac. The level of energy/stamina is extremely noticeable over what he was doing. My Energizer Bunny is back!


If I had to do it again, I think I would have made the balls about the size of golf balls just to give a more gradual effect and 'control' how fast he gained the weight back. And I sure would not have made 10lbs of the stuff. But I cannot argue with the results.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Sarah, thanks for the update.

I imagine you already considered this but perhaps a few times a year make up a batch of it, put them in a small muffin tin to freeze them and then add some weekly to his feeding schedule.

Just a thought. Glad to see the suggestion brought about the results you were after.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

glad it worked !

for what it's worth, i've also noticed seasonal weather changes will also have an effect on weight/energy/performance levels.

at my age i have to watch that I am not a contributing factor too


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I never thought of using muffin tins. Put the little paper holder in there, freeze, throw the holder into a zip lock bag.... Would have been faster then how I did it.


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