# Rear leg bite pros and cons



## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

I recently started my 4 mo old on rear leg bites. Insert video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZA-GzhFDSA

I had a conversation with a fellow competitor about this and found the conversation entertaining. I'm interested to hear what you guys think are the pros and cons of teaching leg bites ,rear or frontal, vice on the arms (bicep or tricep)


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Nice work and nice puppy.

Max


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

They typically feel more comfortable, and confident back there, as they feel safe from decoy pressure. As long as you're not doing Schutzhund... then why not lol


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## Amanda Caldron (Mar 2, 2009)

Don't see anything wrong with the work done in that video or with the dog. What issues were being presented in your discussion? Did you mean as far as traininig the rear and then train frontal? I personally feel it is a little easier to teach rear first, also when the dog is ready to do some short sends etc. the rear is easier to distinguish target because how the suit bends (its almost a little imprint saying bite here)and less impact and makes the dog feel extra tough and naturally brings out more fight cause of the chase. However these things can be done teaching frontal first as well but more work at it from the decoy i think.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What sport are you trying to compete in ? I think that you sit around with your training buddies and go over all the pro's and cons. Since you didn't say what you are training in, kinda hard to help. 

Just as a side note, teaching the dog to target is never a waste of time. Good targeting keeps the dog safe.

Want to add that you have a good training decoy there. He is just right for a pup that age, and gives nicely when your pup is trying out his big boy pants.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I get all of our puppies working on the leg and the upper body. We teach them to target biceps, triceps, and the back of the calf just like your puppy is doing here. I teach them to target with a rag, tug toy, puppy sleeve....whatever from the front before I do it on the suit. When I put them on the suit for the first time I usually start them on back bites (tricep)
He looks good man, who is the father of that Coyote you got there?:razz:


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Ron Davidson said:


> I recently started my 4 mo old on rear leg bites. Insert video here
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZA-GzhFDSA
> 
> I had a conversation with a fellow competitor about this and found the conversation entertaining. I'm interested to hear what you guys think are the pros and cons of teaching leg bites ,rear or frontal, vice on the arms (bicep or tricep)


Hey Ron nice looking crocodile on the end of your leash. I really like how your training decoy is building the dog. 

I like the dog targeting exactly where you have him on the back of the leg for the flee attack and all escapes. For all of the fast moving decoy protection sports like French Ring, Mondio PSA etc the foundation should be the same for those exercises. 

There is lots of B.S. theories out there, but less people who have actually gone out and done it. The best trainers out there strive to keep it simple but efficient movements for the dog, while thinking how the physics of how the human body works in planning your foundation bite work training. 

Here is a thread that talks about targeting upper vs lower, what I said there would be the same I'd say here since you asked this question it will save me from rehashing the same posts. Bob Solimini had a great take on it with that thread too. http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f17/targeting-french-ring-dog-13118/ 

Keep up the good work with your dog and buy that training decoy a beer!


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Nice, I like it. This might be one of only a few videos that have gotten positive responses on here, You should be proud. keep up the good work


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Amanda Caldron said:


> Don't see anything wrong with the work done in that video or with the dog. What issues were being presented in your discussion? Did you mean as far as traininig the rear and then train frontal?


The guy had an older pup (15 mo) that was biting up top on the runaways. He was thinking of changing the dog to the legs on the rear attack. We were just going back and forth about the trouble he would have and what the downfalls/pitfalls were to the switch.


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What sport are you trying to compete in ? I think that you sit around with your training buddies and go over all the pro's and cons. Since you didn't say what you are training in, kinda hard to help.
> 
> Just as a side note, teaching the dog to target is never a waste of time. Good targeting keeps the dog safe.
> 
> Want to add that you have a good training decoy there. He is just right for a pup that age, and gives nicely when your pup is trying out his big boy pants.


We compete in PSA which is pretty free. The dog can bite legs or bicep/tricep but the dog has to be consistent in where he bites on all exercises. And you are absolutely right we do sit around and go over the pros and cons. All we talk about is training and what every dog needs or needs to see in order to become stronger. 

And I'll let my decoy know about the compliments. He'll get a kick out of it.


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> I get all of our puppies working on the leg and the upper body. We teach them to target biceps, triceps, and the back of the calf just like your puppy is doing here. I teach them to target with a rag, tug toy, puppy sleeve....whatever from the front before I do it on the suit. When I put them on the suit for the first time I usually start them on back bites (tricep)
> He looks good man, who is the father of that Coyote you got there?:razz:


Well I have him on the bicep in the frontal attack also. Insert video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-wJIsmyAkU

And Mike you know his father is none other than Grumpy old man Arko himself, but our bitch Phoenix had a little to do with it. You know TommyxRudie bitches aren't just lying around. I can't wait to see what we get from Carlos. We'll be posting the same kinds of videos from that litter I hope.


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## Ron Davidson (Mar 5, 2009)

todd pavlus said:


> Nice, I like it. This might be one of only a few videos that have gotten positive responses on here, You should be proud. keep up the good work


Well there is the old adage; "The only thing two trainers can agree on is what the third one is doing wrong."

There is always a risk of your feelings getting stepped on posting on these boards. I'm pretty thick though. ](*,) 

Thanks for the compliment.


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