# balancing family with a working dog hobby



## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Wanting advice or to hear about any lessons you've learned while having this hobby and a family.

Besides collecting pets, I haven't had a hobby aside from family activities. This will be a transition. I have a lot of time to myself during the school year, so at least that is good. And thank God everybody likes dogs. Anything you have learned would be great. 

Gina


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

There's a saying: I used to have a life, but then I got dogs.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

This is really your choice. You can get a deep in the weeds as you like or stick to the sidewalk. It's a question of priorities. If you are a soccer mom you will need to decide which you want to do. Go to your child's games or go to dog training. 

What will you do if something comes up with the dog (that you've been dying to do) and this conflicts with something the family is doing? In the last 14 years I have not taken a vacation that didn't include the dogs. Any "vacations" were searches, workshops, seminars, etc. Good Luck but it really does come down to you and your time management skills.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hands down #1 is Having a fantastic spouse.

I have to many hobbies. Dogs, woodworking, cars and gardening.

Over the yrs I've done sculpting, oil painting, mold making, resin casting, yadda, yadda.

Dogs have always been at the top.

I call it the magic of ADHD. :-o :lol: :wink: 

My wonderful wife has always supported what I do...........and she still likes me after 49 yrs come Sept. :grin:


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Awesome Bob. Thank God I married the one I did too. I think I would have made non animal lovers nuts. Our first date, we walked our dogs at the harbor. I was showing him how high my cattle dog could jump and she accidentally jumped on the hood of a parked car. Oops. It wasn't a real fancy car

Camping will be fine for him with the pup, but he doesn't think Catalina Island by boat will be a good idea. I dont want to stress the pup or family so I'm researching. The breeding hasn't even been done. LOL


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Gina as far as boating. Unless the pup is spooky, don't give it a second thought. The Dutch was boating in inboard and outboard boats at 12 weeks, by 7 months she was flying in a bush plane and cool around guns, heavy equipment, etc. A few months later she was being hauled 60+ miles by snow machine, in a freight sled, and just about every weekend.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Thanks Sarah,

I'm going to have to seek some balance, but I am looking forward to many vacations with the pup or dogs. I dont want to push myself or family too far. It made me feel good to hear you say to do as much or little as I want. I want the whole family to enjoy having a working dog, not loathe us.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Super cool Nicole. That's the kind of pup I'm praying for. I think my problems will be about the pup being able to settle down in a crate or dog bag (dont laugh, I'm just thinking on it). 

The family will want to spend a little time on the beach and I can't take a dog there. I thought if the pup were small enough and I had a big dog bag, I could carry it inconspicuously. LOL  A Mal in a dog bag probably can't be done. I dont know the age or size it would be by trip time. Also, the fam will want to see a nighttime movie. The pup will need to be happily crated, so no one calls harbor patrol.

Thank you for the boat encouragement.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

If Kadi does what I think she will do, there's a chance this pup will have had crate time early on. If you are not sure, ask her. Mine arrived as a very, very, small adult version of herself. She was a mini for a while, at 2.5 years that changed. Why? Late to mature I guess.

Anyway, in the crate her resting character was/is exceptional and it's like that if loose in the car which I only permitted twice. In fact, she is so quiet it's easy to forget she's with me. It's in environments where there's more excitement and activity that she becomes more cagey. 

A word of caution, just something to think about... I've seen people get high drive dogs and work them with this notion that these dogs need to be highly stimulated and for prolonged periods of time. For some this isn't a problem. But it can be one of the worst things you can do with certain high drive dogs. It's like they can't learn to settle in properly and this is when things can go south.

There's a time and place for work and there's a time for rest. I don't deviate from that and the pup adapted exceptionally well from the get go. I do believe that if I was out there running the piss out of her every day, throwing a ball or whatever or hours at a time given her natural ramped drive state when not resting, she'd be a spun up mess.

Just be careful in that regard. It might not make sense now, but in time it eventually will.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Kadi exposes them to a lot, but I'll have to ask about a crate. I know they are rasied inside, but with lots of outside time and trips too. Yes, Kadi warned me about trying to over exercise. My dogs get so used to routine, so I can see what would happen if they became used to a hard exercise regimen (not that that would be bad for every owner). She says, she likes what she calls kitchen training or the pup following her into the kitchen while she cooks to train for short increments and reward with on hand treats. She focuses on the mental part and lets her dogs wear each other out together outside too. 

I'm learning that everybody has a different style for management for sure. I like having a pup underfoot maybe more than others, but agree that it will be CRUCIAL that the pup learns down time in a crate. I'm thinking, I will put the pup away at different times of the day and for different intervals even when it may be easier or more fun to just keep him out. I think right away that crating in different rooms and places will be essential too. Which type of crate do you have? I'm thinking for the 25 ft sailboat, I will need a collapsible one.

Thanks for continuing with all your advice!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I have 5-7 crates of different types (hard bodied) and just two dogs currently. As far as boating, I opted initially for a short tether which has a quick release. In the situation of boating weird stuff can happen so you might want to reconsider a crate if you don't need it. Course if you only mean for a baby puppy, then that probably makes sense to safely contain them. Not surprisingly all of my dogs have bailed out of the boat at least once.

BTW I do the same as Kadi does with my dogs. I don't object to the notion that they can and should have companionship with other dogs. The "center of the world" status is something I don't ever want from any one person or thing.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Good info. I figured you'd have several crates. Makes sense allowing a dog to bail out and having it on a short tether. I was thinking of when we were docked and sleeping too for the crate. Cool that you think that they should have companionship with other dogs. I love watching my dogs play, especially with puppies. On the other hand, I want this guy to know his role. Im thinking hiding him away from my family and dogs would be unfair and dangerous, but he will get to be with me in many more situations as a PPD. I think this should be plenty of a bond. I'm guessing that growing up with the older dogs will help him get along with all dogs better up to some point. Your Dutchie sounds very well rounded. That is my number one goal, with the PPD and social aspect of training for me to follow.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I do find her to be extremely manageable. Most people who have met this dog outside of the weight pulling community do not like her. It's understandable.

My mastiff is one of those dogs, if you are into such a thing, that in my world, should raise up every dog that comes after it. There are certain ones that this is not a good idea for (reactive for example). In some cases people feel it makes the pup to doggy for sport. But does it really do that was the inclination there to begin with and it just wasn't measured or managed well enough?


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

I don't know enough about sport to know what too doggy would look like. I'm not real perfectionistic, so having a dog that seems like an extension to my body does not appeal to me. Glad there is some variety in dog sports and activities.

My Pyrenees didn't ever play with my youngest when she was a pup. He is very serious except with me occasionally and my Borsenji. He makes up his mind as to who is worthy maybe. My senior dobe has been great with pups. The borsenji is crazy playful. So much stamina in that dog. I dont know how the Shepinois does with pups yet, but so far she is very respectful of male dogs. I will be careful until I know. What do you like about your Mastiff's style with pups?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Gina Mezin said:


> What do you like about your Mastiff's style with pups?


It's more about what I like about the dog herself. She's very stable environmentally, confident, curious, independent, self sufficient, an exceptional scent/hunting dog (from voles, to fish, to medium sized game all the way up to bear). She has developed a more primal side to the Dutch, one that as a human being I don't think I could have ever influenced to the degree that she has.

With the Dutch as a pup order seemed to fall into place naturally. Despite both being bitches, there are no resource issues between them. They play, the Dutch curiously handicaps herself with fake falls so the Mastiff can pin her. Surely, that's not what she's thinking when she's doing that (or maybe she is) but whatever it is, the dogs have a very balanced and fluid relationship with one another.

The Mastiff has a presence about her that is hard to put words to.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

That's neat what they can teach each other. I certainly understand why someone can have only one dog, but for me, that would be hard. Also, am all about more than one breed. The confident, more independent nature of my Pyrenees is great, as is his way of finding a high vantage point and watching way off. My favorite thing is how his calm but serious presence keeps dogs from messing with us on walks. And how when he has put his mouth around a strange dogs head that it chooses to not struggle, but just leaves us alone. If a dog is going totally nuts, he just blocks us. I hope to make my life a little more simple and get down to two or three dogs only eventually. A homestead guarding type and a more in tune to human direction type like a Mal. I dont know anything about hunting though. I think if I ever got involved with it, it would be small game and only with a dog. Just wasn't brought up with it, so my mind wont go there yet. Even target shooting made me a bit uncomfortable at first. Now I enjoy that quite a bit. Thanks for sharing.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> Gina as far as boating. Unless the pup is spooky, don't give it a second thought. The Dutch was boating in inboard and outboard boats at 12 weeks, by 7 months she was flying in a bush plane and cool around guns, heavy equipment, etc. A few months later she was being hauled 60+ miles by snow machine, in a freight sled, and just about every weekend.


Your life sounds awesome


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> If Kadi does what I think she will do, there's a chance this pup will have had crate time early on. If you are not sure, ask her. Mine arrived as a very, very, small adult version of herself. She was a mini for a while, at 2.5 years that changed. Why? Late to mature I guess.
> 
> Anyway, in the crate her resting character was/is exceptional and it's like that if loose in the car which I only permitted twice. In fact, she is so quiet it's easy to forget she's with me. It's in environments where there's more excitement and activity that she becomes more cagey.
> 
> ...


This ^^ I made this mistake with my dobes, it was hell for about two years, lol


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Glad to be getting the same advice about a time to work and a time to rest. For sure I will maintain the above, but do you find it beneficial to stick to any daily schedules with a dog or pup and/or are there times to mix it up so you don't have a dog anticipating.

Thanks. And I agree with Matt, sounds like Nicole, you have a lot of fun


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks guys. I do have a lot of fun. Course, I'm up for about anything and when necessary I make a choice to adapt and overcome things that I might initially find unpleasant. Though, I'm not sure I could ever do that Naked and Afraid Show. What a strange notion. The only time I could see being in a real situation like that is when that Baker fella up here entrapped prostitutes, then flew them off to the wild only to hunt them. WTF.

That said, I find there's certain things I don't deviate from but even this can be dependent from dog to dog. They both sit and wait for their food until released but I change positions and distance with the Dutch. It's less necessary for the Mastiff for me to do that. Certain things I don't mind either of them anticipating, like sitting and waiting for me to open the door and release them. I got into pits when I was young. I learned early on this was a breed not well received by the general pubic and it was my duty to make sure I never lost my dog or that no one ever was on the receiving end of something one of my dogs did.

An example of mixing up something small would be that normally I stand up after I put the Dutch's food down and release her. One day, I didn't stand up. I released her and she wouldn't move, I said the same thing and she started by caught herself. I didn't move but as I said free brushed my hand up the back of her neck and that's all that was needed to get her to release. Sometimes I turn her away from the food, put her in a down, or I don't have her sit at all, etc. 

A lot of what I do with and for each dog really depends upon the dog. I presume you have kids? I don't but I've heard from countless people that they're not the same and as such people adjust accordingly and just do what works. Why be firm with a crier when talking is all that's needed? Course, I was the kind of kid you'd have to whip and even then I'd laugh and mock it. Knowing this, one might find me and the Dutch an odd combo because she fits that mold too. 

I learned very early from the people on this forum who had intimate knowledge of these dogs. "Don't fight with a dog that likes to fight." I don't and she is much easier to handle. To get to B, she has to go through A (me). This isn't quit the center of the world type of handling, but it helps with her impulse control and general awareness that she doesn't run the show. If I didn't take these measures, I'd still have her snatching up whatever she wants. 

She did that with a spray paint can when my brother watched her after my dad died. He asked what the hell is wrong with that dog? I just replied and said, I told you, she's like that line in a George Michael song "Everything she wants, is everything she sees."


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Thanks for the info. Your Dutch is quite the character! I have to anticipate a lot with the Dobe. As a pup she grabbed up all sorts of objects. Now, in her old age, its just any food she can get away with. She needs to know I'm serious. She wouldn't retaliate, but fighting her doesn't work. I call her the tank, as she mows down whatever is in her way to get what she wants. I've noticed how changing my feeding routine (how I ask them to wait) can confuse them. They anticipate a lot without really listening, or they read gestures. I'm working on getting rid of the little gestures that I hardly realize I do. Any routines or purposeful variation of routine in the use of the crate? Thanks


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

For the crates, they are valuable for travel in the summer and across the trail in the winter. I do contain the Dutch when I am unable to watch her, which is about 4-5 hours a day. The routine for that is the same and I always provide a reward either for her to find in it or to offer once she's in and sitting, which she does automatically.

A purposeful variation? Depends who you ask, I guess. Some might take a look at the below and think what useless shit. As I said, I use everything with my pups and at times in relatively unorthodox ways. Move to about .40 seconds in the video if you want to see just that part with the crate. The earlier stuff was for footing and to get accustomed to putting her head in odd places.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNNODKtmTSI

BTW I always vary my feeding schedule. I even change the bowls, placement, frequency of meals, etc. All of it's variable.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Cool video. 

Gotta LOVE her drive.

........and I still think your Mastiff is one of the best looking ones on the planet.

Built for function! :wink:


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Yes, I love the drive too. Like her climbing and athletic approach. Thanks for this video example and your other examples. I like trying stuff like that too. You inspired me and I tried it on my four. The borsenji got in there in less than five seconds. The problem solving ability on this dog is the highest I've seen in my personal dogs. (To be fair, the Pyr and Dobe have never been crated in their lives and the borsenji likes a crate sometimes) The Shepinois and Pyr circled a few times and casually tried to see if I left food somewhere else that was easier to get = Not high drive at all. The Dobe bashed the crate, even got her nose stuck for a second. She got lucky with the bashing and the door swung open. She got it on the second pass once the door was wide open. Her tank approach works for her. 

I can't wait for a mal puppy to have drive plus athleticism. I'm not excited to bring the Shepinois to the obedience/protection class, (this may be why I've been putting it off, as well as how uncomfortable she is in the car). I just don't know if she can get motivated on my praise alone. I was told "no food." Toys don't even do much for her. Maybe this weekend I can share how it went. I've been working on the car situation and she is about 50% better. I HAD to take the poor thing on a 1 hr. 45 min ride though and by the second half she was drooling. This ride is a little under an hour.

Anyone hear from Rick, don't know where he is located in Japan. I know he was vacationing before the quakes. Pray he is well.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

That's good to hear! Did you film it?

It might not be of interest to note why the Dutch went in there to begin with. She was sent to retrieve the metal pipes that were in there. The Mastiff would have walked over and opened the door. Since I had never done anything like that with this odd looking contraption of a crate, to her it was not obvious initially that it had a door. That was the first time I used it, aside from that piece of garbage I don't have any metal crates. 

I put the copper pipes in there. I wanted to see if she'd see the barrier and give up, given her age (6 mo) would she continue the search and effort, go off and play with the Mastiff (not usually an option since I worked the Dutch around the Mastiff early on) or would she stick with it and get inside. I expect she would have just opened the door if it had been a standard crate but since this wasn't that's what made it interesting to me (it's a cut down contraption to fit a small space).

Several times she got on top which opened the door, but her pattern was to circle right which closed the open door. I didn't leave the video on long enough because eventually she got inside and picked up both copper pipes. To this day, just hearing the sound of a metal pipe hitting the floor and she'll come skidding around a corner to get it before I do.

Interesting though. My plan was to throw that mess away but for some reason it seemed useful for training so I kept it. The Mastiff hasn't seen it since that exercise. I will put it back out there and see what she does. Since it's nothing she can fit into I will use it for the same purpose which would be a search and retrieve.

I have not heard from rick, but i did notice that he accessed the forum somewhat recently. He's usually on when I am in the evenings.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

No, didn't record it. Will have to see if I can video something in the future. So far, I can't even figure out how to post a photo right side up. Will work on it.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

I went to training one time and forgot about my anniversary, not good, don't do that. My only advice for you LOL


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Khoi Pham said:


> I went to training one time and forgot about my anniversary, not good, don't do that. My only advice for you LOL




Well Khoi, if you married the right girl then she would unders...hahahahahaha! Just kidding. I did that once too.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Khoi Pham said:


> I went to training one time and forgot about my anniversary, not good, don't do that. My only advice for you LOL


You are my hero. If that's the only time you blew your anniversary I don't know what she's whining about.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> You are my hero. If that's the only time you blew your anniversary I don't know what she's whining about.


 Ahhhh, he lives. \\/ Welcome back Lee!


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Ahhhh, he lives. \\/ Welcome back Lee!


Was just about to post on that! Hello there Lee!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Brian McQuain said:


> Was just about to post on that! Hello there Lee!


LOL I am like the all-seeing eye. I see all and am everywhere, even in yer mind. MWHAHHAHAHA. :twisted:


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> LOL I am like the all seeing eye. I see all and am everywhere, even in yer mind. MWHAHHAHAHA. :twisted:



Ooooohhh you don't want to go into my mind. Don't nobody wanna go in there!


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Ha ha so glad I'm not alone, you are just as bad as I am.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Back when I was showing in the AKC breed and obedience rings they were always scheduled on Mother's Day here. 

No trouble at home but my MIL sure got pissy about it. 8-[:twisted:


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Oh no. Thanks for sharing that Khoi.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Glad my MIL lives many states away


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## alexandra ofor (May 8, 2015)

If you are passionate about starting a dog hobby and you have a good support system (extended or close family and friends ). Go for it. Everyone started their journey either by accident or intentionally. I started my journey accidentally, we got a pug puppy and was told their eyes pops out. I was terrified and started looking for more information , went to study a two year animal care course in college,did work experience at a kennel and today I am training with my partners(standard poodle , German shepherd) in dog agility and tracking. You have to be commited and dedicated as it is quite demanding to say the least. However I did take time of to have a baby and got back into it. . What ever you do decide, remember at the end of it all, you will always have your best friend.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Alexandra, what an interesting beginning to your hobby. My family is getting a chance to get used to me training with my three year old dog. I got hassled a bit at first, but now I think they have adjusted well. I think they can sense that it is good for me. I should have my Mal pup in September. There will undoubtably be some adjustments needed, but I'm sure they will enjoy having a pup around. My kids are school aged and they are a bit spoiled with my undivided attention, as I don't work outside the home. It should do them some good to learn to let Mommy get away for a bit. I don't plan on competition at this point, but just a committed training schedule. Agility might be fun at some point too (I'm training in obedience and protection, with a little bit of police style agility), but I would need to meet the right people. There is an agility group by me, but they were not the friendliest people. What characteristics do you like most about your Standard Poodle, and your GSD?


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## alexandra ofor (May 8, 2015)

Gina Mezin said:


> Alexandra, what an interesting beginning to your hobby. My family is getting a chance to get used to me training with my three year old dog. I got hassled a bit at first, but now I think they have adjusted well. I think they can sense that it is good for me. I should have my Mal pup in September. There will undoubtably be some adjustments needed, but I'm sure they will enjoy having a pup around. My kids are school aged and they are a bit spoiled with my undivided attention, as I don't work outside the home. It should do them some good to learn to let Mommy get away for a bit. I don't plan on competition at this point, but just a committed training schedule. Agility might be fun at some point too (I'm training in obedience and protection, with a little bit of police style agility), but I would need to meet the right people. There is an agility group by me, but they were not the friendliest people. What characteristics do you like most about your Standard Poodle, and your GSD?


You come across to me as someone who have put in a lot of thought and have made up your mind to want to work with your dogs while having fun doing it.It's a good attitude to have .You are also doing alot of research otherwise you wouldn't have ended up here in the second place which is great.Having the family get used to the routine of you training helps everyone adjust to the transition from having a family pet dog to a sports / working dog. I wish you all the best with your new pup and current dog.The characteristics I like the most about my poodle would be a list but since the say the most; It has to be her athletic ability (very agile but yet delicate ,`this makes me want to bring her out every day and work with her. My GSD boy is very challenging,he pushes me to work harder and embrace the grind. he makes feel very proud when we get things right .He makes me smile alot when he gets really animated. I enjoy watching him work.Hopefully, you meet the right people who would encourage you and motivate you on this journey.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Thanks so much for your encouragement! I'm sure I will start to meet some nice people. It is a big training group. Nice to hear about your dogs. I've always thought Standard Poodles sounded neat. But you have a dog to help you grow too. Nice to hear from you


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