# it makes me sad to say that..



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

the GSD is ranked the 3rd most popular dog in the country according to the AKC. this is NOT good for the breed, esp if you look at the pic in the article on MSN (where i saw it). i know, i know, shoulda posted the link. if anyone needs it i'll post it, but it's my baby boy's 19th b-day and i gotta go eat cake


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

That's what I thought, too, when I saw it posted on one of the AKC show boards I belong to  but they were all excited about it there. I kept my mouth shut.:-\"


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I believe GSDs were 3rd in 2007, 2006, 2005 and 4th in 2004. I think they fluctuate in popularity but have stayed in the top 10 for a long, long time now. I agree, it's not a good thing at all.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

You GSD people have to learn from us Mal people..... When someone asks if you dog is a Dingo you say, "Yes, yes he is". :grin:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matthew Grubb said:


> You GSD people have to learn from us Mal people..... When someone asks if you dog is a Dingo you say, "Yes, yes he is". :grin:


Most Dingos look better then that ASS they used for the pic in that article.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Yeah, but the Malinois has moved up in rankings also, we are 79 this year and I think we were in the low 90's last year. I'm still trying to find actual numbers of dogs/litters produced. I think that is still pretty small, even if we are moving up in the ranks.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

here's a link to the article:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/22670868/?GT1=10755


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

> You GSD people have to learn from us Mal people..... When someone asks if you dog is a Dingo you say, "Yes, yes he is". :grin:


I have to agree with Matthew. While I love Mals and have since I was exposed to them in the Military, I still prefer them to remain fairly anonymous to the world at large. I am definatley not a snob but I really kind of like having a dog not many people know about and am very happy they haven't been placed on any insurance list as a "dangerous breed"! 

Stay under the radar, thats my motto!! :wink:


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Here is the information I was looking for, although I could have sworn it was also by individual dog counts also. They don't have the 2007 stats up yet. http://www.akc.org/reg/litter_stats.cfm

This is the number of litters registered

German Shepherd 2006-15,374 2005-15,344 
Malinois 2006-218 2005-202 

Based on the stats for 06 and 05 though, and the jump in rank the Malinois had in 07, I suspect the number of litters doubled and is somewhere in the 400's for 2007. Still not even a drop in the bucket compared to the GSD, but that's still a big jump.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm sorry to hear that Kadi, but not surprised. Unfortunately the same thing will probably happen with Dutchies too. The worst thing that can happen to a working breed is to become "popular".


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> I'm sorry to hear that Kadi, but not surprised. Unfortunately the same thing will probably happen with Dutchies too. The worst thing that can happen to a working breed is to become "popular".


The other day while out training some "urban" stuff a couple walked over and asked what kind of dogs I had (Rock was in the car and Jesea was with me) and I told them I really know what mix it was but I knew there was some shepherd in there......:-\" 

I do not want the Dutchie and the Mal to get any more popular, they are not the breed for your common pet owner. ](*,)


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Here is the information I was looking for, although I could have sworn it was also by individual dog counts also. They don't have the 2007 stats up yet. http://www.akc.org/reg/litter_stats.cfm
> 
> This is the number of litters registered
> 
> ...


That's interesting I had posted on another board that a breeds popularity with the public could be the death knell of 'true' working lines being the greed of some people to breed just for the sake of the all mighty dollar. 

Some of the unethical breeders are offering tempered drive in some Malinois pups because the real driven ones can't be handled by John Q Public. These dogs then are not what you say true working Malinois anymore the tempered drive dogs should only be pets,. IMHO if those dogs get bred they soften the whole breed and you get less and less choice of real working lines.

I'm thinking the slow 60-70 year crawl of German working line GSDs where unethical people have bred most of that working ability away turning them into those ASS show lines where 10% or more of the dogs progeny are dysplasic etc, I just hope that doesn't happen to the Malinois in 50-60 years from now. 

Since 9/11 there has been a plethora of Malinois interest, and the market has gotten swamped with breeders jumping on the Malinois bandwagon. IMHO some for the right reasons and others for the wrong reasons. What makes the breed so great has made the breed popular with the public. That adds related stress on breeding programs so hopefully that will not be "my breeds" undoing either. 

That's why I could never support a breeder who bred for tempered drive vs working ability. There is a lot to be said for ethical breeders who put the breed first from a working stand point. They are the true champions of the breed IMHO. That goes for any working breed GSD, Lab, Bouvier etc.

The Lab is another example of a working dog gone to pot, a victim of its own popularity. I see so many Labs that look like Watermelons held up by toothpicks and the best part John Q Public thinks that is a good thing!! I wouldn't know where I could get a working line Lab. But I know I could look in the local paper and find a Lab puppy ASAP. "From Champion Bloodlines parents on site" :roll:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Carol Boche said:


> The other day while out training some "urban" stuff a couple walked over and asked what kind of dogs I had (Rock was in the car and Jesea was with me) and I told them I really know what mix it was but I knew there was some shepherd in there......:-\"
> 
> I do not want the Dutchie and the Mal to get any more popular, they are not the breed for your common pet owner. ](*,)


HEY leave our poor GSDs out of it!!! Actually, I think that's an excelent idea and now when people ask me what my dog is mixed with I'm going to tell them he is a purebred Soviet Duck Tolling Spitz.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> HEY leave our poor GSDs out of it!!!


 :mrgreen: at least I did not say what kind of shepherd.....:mrgreen: 



susan tuck said:


> Actually, I think that's an excellent idea and now when people ask me what my dog is mixed with I'm going to tell them he is a purebred Soviet Duck Tolling Spitz.


Hmmmmm....duck tolling Spitz huh? Interesting. I wonder how many people would go home a google that just because of the name......=D> =D> :grin: 

I know my Mom probably would.......(sorry Mom)


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

SOVIET duck tolling spitz, you wouldn't want to confuse it with the HUNGARIAN duck tolling spitz. 

This morning this list was brought up by Barbara Walters on her show, The View, only she referred to GSDs as Alsatians.](*,) ](*,)


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

What's wrong with telling people they're Alsatians? Nobody here in the states really knows what an Alsatian is!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Alsatian is a name the Brits started using during WW1 to alienate themselves from anything German. I don't think it's been used officially since WW2 ended.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Alsatian is a name the Brits started using during WW1 to alienate themselves from anything German. I don't think it's been used officially since WW2 ended.


Lots of Brits still call them that....#-o 

I wonder if they changed any other breed names between the wars...North Austrian Shorthaired Pointer?


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I don't think [Alsatian has] been used officially since WW2 ended.


My point exactly


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> HEY leave our poor GSDs out of it!!! Actually, I think that's an excelent idea and now when people ask me what my dog is mixed with I'm going to tell them he is a purebred Soviet Duck Tolling Spitz.


As the owner of a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, my dog most certainly decends from the Soviet Duck Tolling Spitz :wink: :grin: 

Ours is a breed suffering from marked jump in popularity. As breeders struggle to keep the breed split (show/working) from happening, I wonder how long they can hold out  The vast majority of dogs bred have hunting/field titles as well as a Ch. (plus a whole lot more) but that does not mean too much these days. There are way more dogs working or competing in some venue than pet Tollers at the moment, but I think the shift is still happening...


I do my part to keep them unpopular by saying "why yes" when people ask if it is a border collie/ golden cross. If they get the breed right I make sure I firmly expain that this is not a mini-golden temperment wise when they comment on how nice it would be to have a dog that size.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

The worst thing that can happen to the working breed isn't being popular, it's working folks not standing up with one voice and supporting the cause for working dog ownership. This has been one of the main issues with the AKC and the ABCA dealing with the Border Collie. I know, I'm a lifetime member.

When you genetically breed the working traits out of the lines and make them "show pieces" you have nothing to show for but looks. Looks don't work. When folks who own working breeds allow state and local government to pass breed specific legislation (BSL) without a fight, it's their own fault!

This is one reason why this venue shouldn't have a *Pet Section.* Sure our dogs are our pets, but they are for some of us *Working Tools!* :twisted:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> As the owner of a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, my dog most certainly decends from the Soviet Duck Tolling Spitz :wink: :grin:
> 
> Ours is a breed suffering from marked jump in popularity. As breeders struggle to keep the breed split (show/working) from happening, I wonder how long they can hold out  The vast majority of dogs bred have hunting/field titles as well as a Ch. (plus a whole lot more) but that does not mean too much these days. There are way more dogs working or competing in some venue than pet Tollers at the moment, but I think the shift is still happening...
> 
> ...


I was thinking of you when I made up the breed name! I agree, it was not that many years ago when nobody knew what a Duck Tolling Retriever was. Unfortunately, they too are becoming quite popular and the breed will most certainly suffer for it - they always do!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> This is one reason why this venue shouldn't have a *Pet Section.* Sure our dogs are our pets, but they are for some of us *Working Tools!* :twisted:


 
I'm not clear on what you mean, can you elaborate?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Working forums and working breeders should keep it pure. To mix show or pet with working stuff, I think is wrong. I know it is done. Want a Pet Forum?Then just have a Pet Forum. I am a Border Collie purest and do not dual register with the AKC and give them no DNA support. The working Border Collie people want dogs that work, they could care less what the dog looks like, can it work? I have been talking to folks in Belgium about Bouviers and they say that the true working Bouv is almost a thing of the past. What I am looking for is VERY hard to find. My read on that is too much conformation!!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I agree 100% about how were loosing working dogs. Unfortunately the show/pet market is where the real money is. 
I do believe that there will always be someone breeding good working dogs. The only thing that will really change that is to many tree hugging furbaby folks that will have a strong voice in law making.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I agree 100% about working lines, and one of the things I love about this forum is it concentrates on working and sport dogs. The thing is, I still don't understand what you mean by "this venue shouldn't have a pet section". What part of this forum are you referring to and how does it negatively effect the topic of this thread?


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> I agree 100% about how were loosing working dogs. Unfortunately the show/pet market is where the real money is.
> I do believe that there will always be someone breeding good working dogs. The only thing that will really change that is to many tree hugging furbaby folks that will have a strong voice in law making.


I hug trees regularly.....:wink: 

The rest I totally agree with :grin:


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I hug trees regularly.....:wink:


No doubt!! 

With backing music from George of the Jungle cartoon .. 

_Jenn .. Jenn, Jenn of the mountain, as fast as she can ski .. Watch out for that tree! AAAAaaaaaaaoooaa!!_ :lol:


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> No doubt!!
> 
> With backing music from George of the Jungle cartoon ..
> 
> _Jenn .. Jenn, Jenn of the mountain, as fast as she can ski .. Watch out for that tree! AAAAaaaaaaaoooaa!!_ :lol:


Ha ha...I had organic granola for breakfast this morning too 8) 

Three cheers for breeders that still breed working dogs, even though they will never get rich.... and quite frankly may be lucky to break even =D>


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