# Dog Shipping Question...



## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

How do you ship your working dogs if they are very aggressive? I know I took one of mine to the airport and he merely barked a few times and they almost did not let him on the plane because he was 'vicious'. I am going to need to ship both of mine soon. The airlines I have dealt with do not allow the dogs to be tranquilized. They also have all this literature on aggressive breeds and aggressive dogs will not be shipped. I know working dogs get shipped though. How does one get around this?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

How far? Is driving an option?


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Damn far, driving isn't an option


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I used to have crates that had very small airflow holes and double locks and handles. It was a long time ago though.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> How do you ship your working dogs if they are very aggressive? I know I took one of mine to the airport and he merely barked a few times and they almost did not let him on the plane because he was 'vicious'. I am going to need to ship both of mine soon. The airlines I have dealt with do not allow the dogs to be tranquilized. They also have all this literature on aggressive breeds and aggressive dogs will not be shipped. I know working dogs get shipped though. How does one get around this?


It is a major problem. It depends on who is behind the counter. Continental shipped my dogs to Costa Rica. They are both nuts crate aggressive even tranquilized. I tranquilized even though it is not permissible. They took them without a problem even though the drugs didn't seem to help.

Coming here from CR was a whole different story. They actually accepted them and then when I was ready to board found me and told me they were going crazy in the luggage area and they were not going to take them.

I explained they were the same dogs Continental flew to CR and I considered it their responsibility to bring them home. Finally the agent called his manager in the US and after a 10 minute conversation they decided to take them. 

In the meantime the plane is late sitting out on the tarmac. They made me go with them on the tarmac to keep the dogs a bit calmer while they loaded them. I'm fairly certain I was the first passenger ever that was ever allowed on the tarmac. 

When I finally boarded all the passengers who witnessed the commotion in the airport and on the tarmac cheered me.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> When I finally boarded all the passengers who witnessed the commotion in the airport and on the tarmac cheered me.


Sure it was a cheer??? LOL


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Sure it was a cheer??? LOL


You know, Joby, I actually thought passengers would be pissed because of the hold up. Most of them were aware of what was going on in the tiny airport at Liberial, Costa Ricsa. The dogs were in the terminal going completely bonkers while the everyone was checking in.

It was jeers not jeers.:-D


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

An aluminum crate with handles on the sides helps to.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Carol Boche said:


> An aluminum crate with handles on the sides helps to.


The issue is you pay by the weight of the whole package. They did drill holes in the plastic crate and double zip tie the door and the 2 halves of the crate together. 

They did that before they ever got out of the states because the were so crazy.


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> The issue is you pay by the weight of the whole package.


I agree with that. It sucks to pay more that is for sure.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

My dogs, one especially, is bat shit nuts in the crate. The second he sees strange men he is going to go mental. I'm stressing out. I'm going to go out on a limb and bet they won't let me drape the crate in an opaque sheet.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Interesting topic; hopefully those more experienced with transporting aggressive dogs will comment.

I would call a few different airlines and ask what they would recommend for flying an aggressive dog. Say you're dog is very aggressive but needs to be shipped to ____ to be taken to a special veternarian for some medical problem or something and flying is your only option.. ask what airlines may be more lenient or if there is a special crate or something allowed for aggressive dogs.. good luck


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> My dogs, one especially, is bat shit nuts in the crate. The second he sees strange men he is going to go mental. I'm stressing out. I'm going to go out on a limb and bet they won't let me drape the crate in an opaque sheet.


It is definitely worth stressing over. I breathed a sigh of relief when the dogs made to back with a the luggage. I never expected them to grab me as I was ready to board the plane and tell me they were not going to take them. 

They told me the male was "walking" the crate all over the concrete floor trying to get at the baggage handlers.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> It is definitely worth stressing over. I breathed a sigh of relief when the dogs made to back with a the luggage. I never expected them to grab me as I was ready to board the plane and tell me they were not going to take them.
> 
> They told me the male was "walking" the crate all over the concrete floor trying to get at the baggage handlers.


 
This is exactly what is going to happen to me. The vet idea is a good one. Maybe I can work something out. I am not above making some bribes.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Dave Martin said:


> Interesting topic; hopefully those more experienced with transporting aggressive dogs will comment.
> 
> I would call a few different airlines and ask what they would recommend for flying an aggressive dog. Say you're dog is very aggressive but needs to be shipped to ____ to be taken to a special veternarian for some medical problem or something and flying is your only option.. ask what airlines may be more lenient or if there is a special crate or something allowed for aggressive dogs.. good luck


She will here the same thing whoever she calls.


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## Tanith Wheeler (Jun 5, 2009)

If you have a little time you could try de-sensitizing your dog to passers-by when in the crate.

I'm lucky, mine is totally neutral in the crate - unless another dog walks past....


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Tanith Wheeler said:


> If you have a little time you could try de-sensitizing your dog to passers-by when in the crate.
> 
> I'm lucky, mine is totally neutral in the crate - unless another dog walks past....


I tried the too. I did it every day for a month. Everyday the same thing - NUTS! Didn't work!


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## Kara Fitzpatrick (Dec 2, 2009)

lol Lee that's funny! 
I'm interested in this too, hope more will chime in. 
What a PITA.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I tried the too. I did it every day for a month. Everyday the same thing - NUTS! Didn't work!


that is becuase you did not have a clicker LEE...dummy


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

*loads up on elephant tranquilizer*


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> that is becuase you did not have a clicker LEE...dummy


But I had the ecollar on that I don't a have a clue how to use!:-D


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## Jessica Kromer (Nov 12, 2009)

I am not a pro, but just this last spring I had to ship my super crate agro (just an all around asshole) Rott to the Virgin Islands. We were rejected at a small, local airport. They said there was no way they were putting him on that flight.

We did it all, desensitizing, close to abusive corrections, and tranquillizers. None of it mattered. He would NOT let chill in his crate. The only saving grace we had was that LAX is only a 2.5 hour drive and we had no problem making it down there well before the flight. What worked for me was some SERIOUS flirting with the guys that were going to be handling the crate and taking him to the plane, and made them feel a little silly that this little girl could handle the big, scary Rott so they wouldn’t admit they were scared. I was also being SUPER courteous to the chick at the counter and made the dog sound like he was soooo, scared by all the commotion and that was why he was being so bad, he was just scared… I just happened to have pics of him on my phone snuggling with the kittens…

More practically, we had two people, one to keep him out of way of everything while on leash, with the other at the counter with the crate for the pat down and VERY quickly walked the dog into the crate so it was done quickly and with little time for the dog to sit there and brood about the people walking by his crate. He is much better behaved on leash than in his crate.

Once on the plane I made a point of telling the stewardess that I had a difficult dog that would be going in cargo, and that if there were any problems I would be happy to help. There were… The guys loading the crate on the conveyor were too scared to go near the crate. They had me come down to the tarmac, and that little cart thing to “calm him” but really they needed me to help load him up on to the conveyor with the one guy there that was not scared of him. 

The Atlanta International airport guys that handled the cargo shipping were absolutely great! They were understanding and had the balls to just do what needed to get done. 

Bottom line is it depends on who you deal with. That person makes the rules at that moment.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

georgia estes said:


> This is exactly what is going to happen to me. The vet idea is a good one.


I'd be careful with this, if you tell them the dog needs to go see a specialist, they may think there is something wrong and the dog is therefore at higher risk for a health issue while flying. They may not want to take the dog just because they are worried about the dog dying or something during the flight.

Other then tranqs I really don't have many suggestions for you. This is one reason I'm nuts about my dogs aggressing on people around their crates, I'll pull them out and clean their clocks for it. Doesn't gaurantee they won't do it when I'm out of sight, but at least they will make it out of the check in area since I'm standing there within their sight. I've always been told once they accept them, it's a done deal as far as transporting them, although Lee's experience proves otherwise. I think in general once they take them though, you are good to go.

I'd post the actual airports you are going to be flying out of on a few lists. In my area, I can ship from San Diego, Ontario, LAX, John Wayne and a few others. I always ship from Ontario because the people in the cargo area have a laid back attitude about things. Never been hassled about anything, never run into any issues. Can't say that about the other airports I've used. Someone in your area may have a recommendation for an airport/airline (in Ontario it's the same handlers for all the airlines cargo) that is more laid back about things.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Sorry to go a bit out of context,
Is it cheaper to travel with your working dog like its just a pet than shipping that usually costs 600-800 euros?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: *loads up on elephant tranquilizer*

Dead dogs transport quietly.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sounds like a royal PITA. Unless you gotta cross a major puddle of water (Atlantic, Pacific, etc.), I'd say it's TIME FOR A ROADTRIP! :mrgreen: 8)


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Speaking of shipping a dog, whatever happened to the seminar with Dick van Leeuwen and Spike ??


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Does anyone know if the type of crate used for these type of dogs matter to the airlines? I'm wondering what's the greater concern for them, the display from the dog and disruption or the potential liability in the event that the dog gets out? If it's the liability in a potential escape then I'd think a good solid crate might address the concern here.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Dick was so embarrassed by the people at the seminar he had Spike kill them all.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

shipping crate aggressive dogs can be impossible or it can be easy, it all depends on the airport and the person behind the counter. Just like shipping a large sized dog in a size 400 crate, at some airports it simply will not happen and at other airports it is quite easy.
I ship a lot of dogs every month and most of them are idiots in the crate, but are very social out of the crate.
Georgia in your case, I would suggest you carry the empty crate in the airport with all of the paperwork already filled out, the newspaper in the crate already, the food bowl snapped in place, tape a water bottle on the top of the crate and a small zip lock bag of dry food. Then go get the dog and walk him into the airport, let everyone know that he is a puppy, and let them pet him and see how social he is out of the crate, then if he barks in the crate just tell them he is making noise and not really aggressive at all (which is the case with about 90% of the dogs that are idiots in the crate)
This will increase your odds at least. Or you can drive to my place and I can ship him from my airport with no problem at all.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

hmmm good idea. If you weren't 17 hours away I'd take you up on that offer.  I am a little worried to let people pet him due to the fact that he nailed a friend of mine last night and he had to be pryed off. Where he is a decently social dog, I don't trust him fully. I am looking into some better crates. Anyone know of a good airline acceptable one that's not $800-2k? Or some kind of shipping company that ground ships dogs?


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## Kara Fitzpatrick (Dec 2, 2009)

What about that pet airways?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> hmmm good idea. If you weren't 17 hours away I'd take you up on that offer.  I am a little worried to let people pet him due to the fact that he nailed a friend of mine last night and he had to be pryed off. Where he is a decently social dog, I don't trust him fully. I am looking into some better crates. Anyone know of a good airline acceptable one that's not $800-2k? Or some kind of shipping company that ground ships dogs?


You can check with Suttle on this but I don't think the airlines are worried much about the crate material as they are about taking a vicious dog out of the crate in case on an emergency.

They had so many holes and doubled up zip ties in my crates the dogs weren't getting out unless they gnawed through the crate. They couldn't escape by banging or pounding the crate around.

In Seattle they made me stay while they drilled the holes. The whole time the dogs are going nuts trying the bite the guys hand as he drills away.

When I look back on it I'm very fortunate they took these guys in either direction.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Georgia, where are you going and when? There's all sorts of folks who travel for seminars, trials, etc. I'm sure for the right price, you could find somebody. :smile:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is the point of being a 6 ft tall blonde with big tits and pictures of yourself just in bubbles if you cannot even get past an airline guy.

Beat the dog retarded, tranq him and ship him off.


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> hmmm good idea. If you weren't 17 hours away I'd take you up on that offer.  I am a little worried to let people pet him due to the fact that he nailed a friend of mine last night and he had to be pryed off. Where he is a decently social dog, I don't trust him fully. I am looking into some better crates. Anyone know of a good airline acceptable one that's not $800-2k? Or some kind of shipping company that ground ships dogs?


http://www.petcratesdirect.com/dog-crates-airline-approved-sky-kennel.html


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Georgia, where are you going and when? There's all sorts of folks who travel for seminars, trials, etc. I'm sure for the right price, you could find somebody. :smile:



Not totally sure on the date yet but I am being relocated to Seattle from Dallas sometime soon. Anyone going that'a way? 8) If I have to, I will just drive the 32 hours but I'd rather just pay someone else to do it .


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

georgia estes said:


> Not totally sure on the date yet but I am being relocated to Seattle from Dallas sometime soon. Anyone going that'a way? 8) If I have to, I will just drive the 32 hours but I'd rather just pay someone else to do it .


Georgia - If you are flying Continental Airlines I don't believe you will have a problem out of Seattle. I've flown crate aggressive dogs a few times out of Seattle with Continental without incident.


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Georgia - If you are flying Continental Airlines I don't believe you will have a problem out of Seattle. I've flown crate aggressive dogs a few times out of Seattle with Continental without incident.


 
Well, I am flying out of Dallas, into Seattle. DFW gave me some problems with my last dog and he was nothing compared to the two I have now. :/


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm thinking maybe you repost the question about transport and see if anyone can transport the dogs for specific legs of the trip. This seems to be a fairly common practice amongst bulldoggers and those who work in rescue. I'd expect you might be able to get what you need or at least part of the trip handled.

Seattle eh? It's really not too bad out that way. Port Townsend/Angeles are a places to go and check out. Lovely country.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

was going to try and take the time to explain how to FIX this problem rather than just try and further isolate it, but after the reading the part about ... "I am a little worried to let people pet him due to the fact that he nailed a friend of mine last night and he had to be pryed off. Where he is a decently social dog, I don't trust him fully...." i realized there is too much denial taking place to waste the bandwidth trying


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

rick smith said:


> was going to try and take the time to explain how to FIX this problem rather than just try and further isolate it, but after the reading the part about ... "I am a little worried to let people pet him due to the fact that he nailed a friend of mine last night and he had to be pryed off. Where he is a decently social dog, I don't trust him fully...." i realized there is too much denial taking place to waste the bandwidth trying


Rick - I would be interested to know any idea you have to FIX the problem. I do need to say that my male Dutchie is aloof but reasonably, with proper introduction, social. My female is different. Anyone that tries to pet my female will loose a hand. 

No denial just fact.:-D


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