# Mother Biting Pups



## Frank La Fauci (Jun 29, 2012)

Hi all,

I have a Female that bit one off her pups at 2 days old. I saved her now they are 2 weeks old. This morning she bit that same pup again very badly and had to be put down. After 3 hours she bit another pup again very badly. Why would she do this?? She was bred last year with great success. can any one help thanks.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Some very good females do this as well as some very bad ones,if you want to make sure this does not happen again you should give the pups to a surrogate mother as soon as they are born.
I have seen it happen mostly in very aggressive dogs.
Could she have been reacting to something she normally shows aggression towards and now she is redirecting?


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I would not use past success as a predictor of future ones. I don't know the age she was bred for her last litter but maturity could be bringing out new traits on her. It could be genetic (do other owners of the siblings report similar issues) or your females hormones are all out of whack and she's acting on those.

Either way, you may have to muzzle her and only bring her in to feed the pups and then remove her or start hand rearing them.


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Frank La Fauci said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a Female that bit one off her pups at 2 days old. I saved her now they are 2 weeks old. This morning she bit that same pup again very badly and had to be put down. After 3 hours she bit another pup again very badly. Why would she do this?? She was bred last year with great success. can any one help thanks.


Could she be "seeing" something wrong in the pups and culling them? Is she showing the behaviour towards all of them or just some?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

one of my bitches put a pup in a bark and hold in the corner of the box at about 3 weeks old.. who knows why.

another one killed the entire litter one day, looked like a gruesome homicide scene... who knows why

i know of many other incidents, mostly with aggressive bitches as Jack sad already.

a good brood bitch is worth her weight in gold I always say..

mothering skills and attitudes I think are somewhat hereditary as well.. at least to some degree, I have seen trends in certain families of dogs.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I have seen females do this for a variety of reasons.

1) they simply have crappy mothering skills and a screw loose
2) they are excessively aggressive and/or stressed about something in the environment and redirecting
3) they are highly possessive and the pup go to close to a toy, food, water, another pup, whatever
4) they were tired of the pups, gave warning signs the pups were to young to respond to appropriately, so they attacked them

Doesn't really matter the why IMO, I made the mistake of breeding a female like this a second time because I liked the first litter so much (she started this crap when they were about 4 weeks old with the first litter). The next litter she attacked them within 12 hours of giving birth. I gave the pups to a surrogate mom, and she was never bred again. One thing I won't tolerate is a crappy mother, I don't care how great a worker she is, those are genes that IMO do not need to be reproduced.

I would just remove her from the pups, and start bottle feeding them. Make sure they can eliminate on their own, or you will need to help with that also. They can go onto gruel in another week or so.

I had a breeder tell me years ago her best producers were the sisters of her best working females. The best workers tended to be "off" when it came to mothering skills, but there good working sisters had the mothering skills and the working abilities. I don't think this is always the case, but I will say I've had more issues with mothering skills from the highly dominant, possessive type females. I think we also screw up our females sometimes, breeding for more "male type traits" (traits that come from high testosterone), not paying attention to mothering skills, then raising them to be as possessive, aggressive, etc that we can. Taking traits that are there naturally, but in a reasonable amount, then trying to amplify them even more for the work.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I have seen females do this for a variety of reasons.
> 
> 1) they simply have crappy mothering skills and a screw loose
> 2) they are excessively aggressive and/or stressed about something in the environment and redirecting
> ...



yeah what she said 

I agree with almost all of this


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I would try to work around it...if she is producing well. Good mothering instincts are great but good working drives are more important.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Ben Thompson said:


> I would try to work around it...if she is producing well.


If you do this, I hope you let all the puppy buyers know that you had to hand raise or otherwise raise the pups because the mother was attacking/killing them. It may just be this female, but it may also be a genetic tendency in the line.



> Good mothering instincts are great but good working drives are more important.


 IMO both are necessary. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? This female is a great worker but can't get pregnant without a vets help. This female is a great worker but has to have a C-section. This one works great but you have to hand raise her litters or have a surrogate mother. Etc. pretty soon we'd have great working English Bulldogs, unable to get pregnant, whelp, or raise a litter without human intervention.

I'm all for not throwing out the babe with the bathwater, but I don't think good working dogs are so rare, at least in the Malinois (don't know what breed the OP has) that we need to start making allowances for to many things just because a dog is a good worker. Now if this was a top sport (FRIII, MRIII, etc) or working police dog and it was a Doberman, I'd be making allowances


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Sorry, but I believe in allowing nature to take its' course.

Weakness breeds weakness.


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## Ralph Tough (Jun 3, 2012)

I have heard in the past that a mother deficient in calcium could Couse this type pf behaviour towards her pups. How factual it is I don’t know..


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Thompson said:


> I would try to work around it...if she is producing well. Good mothering instincts are great but good working drives are more important.


having litters of dogs with shitty mothers is one of the worst things a breeder can go through....


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> having litters of dogs with shitty mothers is one of the worst things a breeder can go through....


Some people cull a litter if the mother is bad. I don't think anyone wants to hand raise pups. I know dogs are judged for spines hips elbows teeth etc. Don't know if they are judged for bad mothering. If a bitch is great mother but a bad producer that is not exactly a solution either. Someone above said both are necessary...


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald (May 23, 2014)

If she were mine, and had raised a litter no probs before, I would check her health and diet.

Out of curiosity when she whelped did she eat the placentas?


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## Frank La Fauci (Jun 29, 2012)

Hi all,
Thanks for all your answers of helping. Today she is still trying to attack her puppies, and I have noticed that after she feeds them the attack is happening while she is trying to clean them/stimulate them. I have also tried what Sarah Platts recommended the muzzle. And so far all good. I take her away after she feeds her pups, and bring her back in every 4 hours.


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## Frank La Fauci (Jun 29, 2012)

Kirsten Fitzgerald said:


> If she were mine, and had raised a litter no probs before, I would check her health and diet.
> 
> Out of curiosity when she whelped did she eat the placentas?


yes she did eat the placentas and her diet has not changed. why she is doing this I cant work out.](*,)


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## Frank La Fauci (Jun 29, 2012)

Mark Herzog said:


> Could she be "seeing" something wrong in the pups and culling them? Is she showing the behaviour towards all of them or just some?


yes she is showing the behaviour to all pups.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Mark Herzog said:


> Could she be "seeing" something wrong in the pups and culling them? Is she showing the behaviour towards all of them or just some?


I have the same feeling.

The fact that she picked on the same pup might confirm this?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Agree entirely.

I know of Fila Brasileiro litters where the bitch literally sat on one or two pups. However, the breeder of our Fila used to "slam the just Born pups to the wall if they did not seek the bitch's teats.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Really Gillian? Was that necessary to share your breeder's method of killing undesirable pups? I think the OP is trying to keep his puppies alive.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> Really Gillian? Was that necessary to share your breeder's method of killing undesirable pups? I think the OP is trying to keep his puppies alive.


Oh really Leslie - how dare you suggest that the breeder was culling (has also been mentioned in this post!!) UNDESIRABLE pups.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I'm sorry. Was he also killing the desirable ones, too?

Or just slamming newborn pups against walls?


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald (May 23, 2014)

Frank La Fauci said:


> yes she did eat the placentas and her diet has not changed. why she is doing this I cant work out.](*,)


Diet doesn't need to have changed to be causing probs now. I have heard the Calcium thing often enough it could be worth looking into. I have had a bitch crave bloody meat after birth ( vitamin B deficiency?) But she just went hunting until I rectified that:roll:

Same bitch culled her one of her own, but that was with in the 1st week of birth and no messing around.Watched her prodding the pup and came in to think about wether I should interfere or or not. Thought I'd observe a bit more and pup was just no longer there. next litter no probs.

Yes I trust her instincts. But if diet can change whats influencing them that my role.

Sorry I can't offer more help,the only other thing that comes to mind from your description is over active prey drives ?

I would still be looking at diet, fresh meat and calcium.


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## Julia Norton VMD (Sep 11, 2008)

If she was normal on the first litter check a calcium. It is most likely to be an issue about 2-3 wks out since the pups are more of a drain on the mother. This is an issue in bull terriers but I would not rule out in other breeds.


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## Frank La Fauci (Jun 29, 2012)

She is still trying attack them as soon as they go towards her front feet or face. Otherwise she lays down to feed with no issues. I find this mind boggling.](*,)](*,)](*,)


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## Ralph Tough (Jun 3, 2012)

If you have another female nearby on heat or coming into heat this may Couse it as well. There are many opinions to why.. But none are definite answer.:???:


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I don't think that bitches should be attacking their offspring and I don't think female dogs should either. LOL


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Ben Thompson said:


> I don't think that bitches should be attacking their offspring and I don't think female dogs should either. LOL


This opens up a whole new world. 

Am I allowed to talk about bitches now?☺☺☺


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## Mark Herzog (Aug 22, 2013)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> This opens up a whole new world.
> 
> Am I allowed to talk about bitches now?☺☺☺


Do so at your own peril 😱


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