# When is old enough?



## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

At what age do you start real bite work? I mean more than those little prey games, i mean when do you start your dog on the back tie and how often (also in terms of neck/back/hip health)? Here in Germany many Schutzhund people don't do it before the dog is one year old. Others, foremost the Ring people start literally at puppy age.


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I usually put my puppies on a back tie when they are about 5-6 weeks old. I dont work them from the tie, but I just let them hang out on the back tie for an hour or so, then I feed them there and put them up. I do this for a week or more before I even show them a rag there. After they feel comfortable there and stop fighting the chain then they are ready to work there. I see too many people tie the baby puppy back and start to try to do rag work with him right away. The first time you tie a 5 week old puppy out he is going to protest and fight the chain, pull backwards against it and throw a fit. If you try to work him then he will only have a negative association with the rag because he is under stress from the chain. Give him a while to adjust to the chain and then he will be able to focus on the rag.
I do a lot of work here from a back tie with dogs as young as 7 weeks to 3 year old dogs that we are just starting to teach to bite. You can really build a lot of drive and frustration form a back tie, you can work on setting grips and building gripping endurance, you can also do most of it by yourself if you dont have a decoy to help.


----------



## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

So you also think there's no sense to do nothing with the dog until he's a year or so?


----------



## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

I wouldn't know enough to comment personally but
I wonder if that is a throwback from old training practices
seems more compulsion only was used back then and maybe they needed an older dog to take it
in Armins articles over on schutzhund village on defense he also mentions never starting before 1 year old


----------



## Marina Schmidt (Jun 11, 2009)

Indeed mostly the old school guys practice the "not before one year" rule.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I personally don't wait but putting the pup up till 1 year might show a better perspective of the true animal with out any human influence.
I'm no Mal or Dutch guy but it seems like those that are are seem to start with the desensitizing stuff rite away must be a breed specific sort of thing  I had my Jett "German Shepherd" when he was a little pup at a ring club, I seen some people with young dogs and pups making them go through all sorts junk so I had my little guy run through it and what not, none of it mattered to him so that was that.
I have recently been working with a French ring guy and for the hell of it one day grabbed a rattle stick and did all sorts of stupid shit with it my dog has never seen one or heard one before he didn't care or give a shit no different reaction than a padded Schutzhund stick.
So dose any of it matter prolly boils down to what the handler thinks to me I lean more to waiting till a year even though I don't practice it. If its a good dog its just there.


----------



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I backtied jr today to see if he would fuss. Nope, he bit the towel and had a grand old time. No extra silly shit necessary.

Just wanted to see what a "baby" puppy would do. After all he missed all those ENS sessions. HA HA =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>

Maybe he could feel my eyes upon him those two or three times I looked in those first few weeks. :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Dont believe in waiting to a year. Young pup imprinting I believe kinda makes the dog you will have in the future but thats just me. There are some that throw a switch later in life and are slow maturers and become monsters. I think its really a individual dog to dog or pup to pup decision. Me personally am very hard and fast to wash a dog out for working, either its got it or shows it can be built or I get the dog a new home. Not trying to be harsh but a dog that is lacking needs twice or three times the amount of attention and time which I don't really have to spare.


----------

