# Panda Shepherds



## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

I was playing around online and I found a panda shepherd. It was the craziest looking thing.:-o What I gathered from the website is that it is still registered as a GSD and does conformation? Just wondering if anyone had heard anything about them and if they were more susceptible to disease. 

Kayla


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

here was the website i was looking at... www.*pandashepherds*.com/ 
Atleast the color testing for horses from UC Davis is very reptuable....not sure about dogs though.

kayla


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

that sounds like the extremely rare Colossal, Roman and Red Rottweilers you can find around here.

http://www.colossalrottweilers.com/

http://www.colossalrottweilers.com/protectiondogs4.html This series of photos made me bust out laughing.

They say they are bred for work but every one I have seen was nothing better than a big tub of shit and didn't even look like a rott.

Here's one of those [puke] rare red rotts


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## Zak Lambert (Mar 30, 2009)

I had seen those before and thought the exact same thing as you, Chris. Doesn't even look like a rottie.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

pffffft IB4TL :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kayla Barth said:


> I was playing around online and I found a panda shepherd. It was the craziest looking thing.:-o What I gathered from the website is that it is still registered as a GSD and does conformation? Just wondering if anyone had heard anything about them and if they were more susceptible to disease.
> 
> Kayla


Possibly shown in UKC as is the :roll: white german shepherd. 
I would suspect the gene pool is extreamly small so whatever health/temperment problems the founding dogs have will show up in spades with this careless breeding for color crap!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I love it when the newbies want to learn, and then waste time and what little brain power they have on this crap.

There is nothing to learn from reading about Pandas. Go to the local shelter and **** up some of their dogs with your sad OB (lack of) skills so your dog doesn't have to pay 'cause you want to read about Pandas.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

This thread isn't locked yet? Hmm


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I love it when the newbies want to learn, and then waste time and what little brain power they have on this crap.
> 
> There is nothing to learn from reading about Pandas. Go to the local shelter and **** up some of their dogs with your sad OB (lack of) skills so your dog doesn't have to pay 'cause you want to read about Pandas.


 
It has to do with breeding. The parents of the panda where two normal colored GSD with no white in the pedigree, I was just curious to see if anyone had seen them in real life or possibly had seen them work. Damn Jeff have you been hiding behind my couch watching me this entire time!!!!!:-o Just FYI I came across a dicussion about a GSD that had a blue and brown eye and what the cause of it was and someone had mentioned pandas. If you are trying to get me all fired up Jeff it isnt going to work. I will now go and drill my 9wk old puppy on 30min down stays with the ecollar. J/K  BTW Jeff you never did tell me if I had the correct assumptions on the vid of that dog you showed me.



Kayla


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Which video was that ??


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Which video was that ??


it was this on http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x99...m=mailalert_us

I said no because after he tried to jump over the palisade(sp.) wall he sorta spazed and I thought it showed in his bitework. I am not that versed in this subject to say if it was training or if he was nervy but at this point I wouldnt breed him. 

BTW the panda shepherd in question has a working line father and a mother that is a mix of showline and working lines.

kayla


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The panda shepherd thing is goofy and not worth thinking about. It is a couple of years old at least by now.

I cannot get that video to open, was it a black dog named brix ??


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

it was Brix_à_La_Souterraine http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x99per_brixalasouterraine_sport?from=mailalert_us try this link the other one didn't copy right


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That dog got a nice big fat stinger when he slipped off the palisade. He did not want to sit right after, if you notice. There is another of an earlier trial where he does real nice work.

Watch the dog when he falls, he hit pretty hard, and it looks like he jammed himself. The dog kept working.


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

I thought he fell pretty hard myself...cringe...you are right about how he looked a hell of better in the other ones. Back to learning I guess.....If one doesn't ask question how will they ever learn


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## virginia reed (Mar 10, 2009)

It's a very old saying but "no question asked is a bad question" I'm BIG on questions though sometimes too many questions gets me in trouble. I've learned to suppress.

Many people don't ask questions because they're afraid they'll look stupid. So they pretend to know the answers. But if you press - you'll find out you know more than they do because they're afraid to ask.

ASK ASK -that's how you learn!

All genetics is interesting to me. how about finding out if you'll inherit that dread disease that runs in your family, for example? Would you or wouldn't you find out?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I am all about thinking first and asking second.


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## chuck madden (May 8, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am all about thinking first and asking second.


Then maybe you should think about what ann ASS you look like when noobies are trying to learn. I've read several threads on here and you seem to be more of an ass than a help. If you are so damned smart and don't want to be bothered by the rest of us... maybe you should start your own forum.


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## Cate Helfgott (Feb 16, 2009)

I've heard alot of different things regarding the Panda Shepherd...some folks say it's a mutation and is dominant at a simply recessive gene...however, I havent seen any studies done on it so I can't say for sure.

Most genetics are hypothesis and theory though. I _think_ that Panda gene is probably caused at the Spotting Locus...the information I have been able to glean from various color genetics articles and books is thus : 
*The S Locus* – allows for white spotting

S – self colored dogs 
si – Irish spotting – 10-30% white (feet, lower legs, belly, chest, tail tip, color and blaze)
sp – Piebald – 20-30%white
sw – extreme white piebald – 10% or less is pigmented

Notes : 
-S is incompletley dominant w/ sp – it causes irish type spotting, (psuedo Irish)…Can produce white like beagles have
-S-sw or si-sw makes the dog sp-sp looking percentage-of-white wise.

We know the GSD carries for spotting alleles because you do see whites spots on the chest and toes appearing...so clearly they carry for some of the spotting alleles...Max also mentions spotted dogs in his book. It's quite possible that the pandas are the result of two S-si individuals mating and producing an si-si (irish spotted) pup.

As far as health concerns -- for irish spotted dogs there generally shouldnt be any more or less then a colored shepherd (other then maybe some sunburn if the spotting allele affects the skin around the nose). The dangers with the spotting alleles come with the extreme white piebalds or serious spotting around the ears...with dogs that are full carriers for 'sw' or dogs with white ears, you'll sometimes see deafness because the white caused by spotting affects the skin as well as the hair follicles in the ear (unlike normal white sherms, which is caused by a masking allele that only affects fur, not skin)

I hope that makes some kind of sense.

~Cate


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

chuck madden said:


> Then maybe you should think about what ann ASS you look like when noobies are trying to learn. I've read several threads on here and you seem to be more of an ass than a help. If you are so damned smart and don't want to be bothered by the rest of us... maybe you should start your own forum.



Way to make an introduction Chuck! :-({|=

We like Jeff and he's one of the few that speaks the straight up truth.

BTW- Welcome to WDF!!!!


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## Lisa Emerson (Mar 30, 2009)

Cate Helfgott said:


> I've heard alot of different things regarding the Panda Shepherd


And here I've never heard of it, but that isn't saying much.



Cate Helfgott said:


> ...some folks say it's a mutation and is dominant at a simply recessive gene...however, I havent seen any studies done on it so I can't say for sure.


It just looks like s^is^i to me. Am I missing something?



Cate Helfgott said:


> We know the GSD carries for spotting alleles because you do see whites spots on the chest and toes appearing...so clearly they carry for some of the spotting alleles...


Not necessarily; often those are simply random mismarks (minus factors).



Cate Helfgott said:


> (unlike normal white sherms, which is caused by a masking allele that only affects fur, not skin)


That is interesting to know. Thanks for sharing.


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> Way to make an introduction Chuck! :-({|=
> 
> We like Jeff and he's one of the few that speaks the straight up truth.
> 
> BTW- Welcome to WDF!!!!


You beat me to it! #-o :lol: 


Lots of information out there about Panda Shepherds. Many theories, many opinions. I don't care if somebody wants one but please don't say they are GSD's. :roll: That's too much like some of the other "Shepherd" out crosses......


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Since they aren't working dogs, who cares what they do? It's the same thing as the Shiloh. Both breeds really excel as Lawn Ornaments. Here is a breeder with both:
http://gallantwatchkennels.com/about.asp


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Since they aren't working dogs, who cares what they do? It's the same thing as the Shiloh. Both breeds really excel as Lawn Ornaments. Here is a breeder with both:
> http://gallantwatchkennels.com/about.asp


You forgot to mention the white ones they gotem #-o


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## Cate Helfgott (Feb 16, 2009)

Except there are a fair number of the white ones working here and overseas in venues like IPO, police / patrol work, SAR, herding, etc.

As far as the genetic stuff goes -- I believe that Franka's owners had some DNA tested at one of the CA universities....and the guy who did the testing said it was a random but dominant allelic mutation...buuuuuut, none of that has been mapped yet so it is all theoretical...the spotting thing makes more sense to me just because I know that it's an allele that exists in the breed (as per the captain's own words). I've always felt the whites spots on the chest and toes was due to the spotting allele and not random...it tends to occur with too much frequency.

~Cate


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

chuck madden said:


> Then maybe you should think about what ann ASS you look like when noobies are trying to learn. I've read several threads on here and you seem to be more of an ass than a help. If you are so damned smart and don't want to be bothered by the rest of us... maybe you should start your own forum.


 
Chuck- despite the fact that sometimes Jeff's interpersonal skills are lacking he has alot of knowledge. I belive he says the things he says to weed out the people that take things too personal and cant accept a little criticism. Not trying to speak for Jeff or anything that is just how i am interpting what he types. There is no need to get defensive cuz once he smells blood he doesnt let up. just some advice from one noobie to another. 

Kayla


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Long hair GSD X long hair white GSD

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/germanshepherdphotos5.htm

Two same breed purebreds create a dog that looks like a mutt. Nice looking dog, but I would never guess he is a purebred GSD.

Remind me why people do this?


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> Long hair GSD X long hair white GSD
> 
> http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/germanshepherdphotos5.htm
> 
> ...


MONEY!!!!!


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Since they aren't working dogs, who cares what they do? It's the same thing as the Shiloh. Both breeds really excel as Lawn Ornaments. Here is a breeder with both:
> http://gallantwatchkennels.com/about.asp


 
i dont agree with breeding for them exculisly no one should breed based on color alone, but the first one was by a working father and the mother was a mix of show and working lines. But anyways it was more of a discussion about genetics in the GSD lines and I was wondering if anyone had seen them working. Who knows what they could be capable of doing. :-s


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> MONEY!!!!!


 
It is the root of all evil. :evil:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Kayla Barth said:


> It is the root of all evil. :evil:



no it's not. Selfishness is the root of all evil.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

chuck madden said:


> Then maybe you should think about what ann ASS you look like when noobies are trying to learn. I've read several threads on here and you seem to be more of an ass than a help. If you are so damned smart and don't want to be bothered by the rest of us... maybe you should start your own forum.


 
Chuck, read a lot of post and post a few yourself before trying to put people in their place.
Your to new for that.
Mod advice!
All you other folks, quit telling Jeff you like him. I can smell his wires shorting over the web. :grin: :wink:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Then maybe you should think about what ann ASS you look like when noobies are trying to learn. I've read several threads on here and you seem to be more of an ass than a help. If you are so damned smart and don't want to be bothered by the rest of us... maybe you should start your own forum.

Let me guess, bulldog person, or personal protection ??? If they are talking about the panda shepherd for ****s sake, then what the **** are they trying to learn of any importance ??


Leave the teaching to me, my lessons stick a lot better in their heads. And you are right, I do not want to be bothered by you, so just put me on your ignore list. That way you do not have to see any of my posts.

You are right Bob, where do these people come off sticking up for me ?? THat is my job. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> All you other folks, quit telling Jeff you like him. I can smell his wires shorting over the web. :grin: :wink:


We like you too, Bob. Does that help?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kristina Senter said:


> We like you too, Bob. Does that help?


 
Well SHIT! Now I'm being classifyed the same as Jeff. Gonna have to think about that one! :-k: :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## chuck madden (May 8, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Chuck, read a lot of post and post a few yourself before trying to put people in their place.
> Your to new for that.
> Mod advice!
> All you other folks, quit telling Jeff you like him. I can smell his wires shorting over the web. :grin: :wink:


I have not posted because I don't have much experience and I'm here to learn. But... I have read a lot of post and thats how I came to the conclusion that Jeff's an ass.:grin:


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

chuck madden said:


> I have not posted because I don't have much experience and I'm here to learn. But... I have read a lot of post and thats how I came to the conclusion that Jeff's an ass.:grin:


Well then you are learning something


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Ouch!

You mean it takes one to know one ;-) 

But I always believe in "better the devil you know than the one you don't...........and hell, nobody's perfect, not even the pope - oops, no politics!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

chuck madden said:


> I have not posted because I don't have much experience and I'm here to learn. But... I have read a lot of post and thats how I came to the conclusion that Jeff's an ass.:grin:



great, now that you've learned to read and profile people how about you get to learning how to train a dog?:roll:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Why?

It's far more fun profiling people and you can do it sitting on your ass.:-D :-D :-D


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## Kayla Barth (Apr 18, 2009)

Ok guys this thread was not meant to become a noob vs. oldtimers...lol had to put that in cuz I am a noob myself. This was just a dicussion about Genetics and how a pup ends up having a shit load of white on it coming a normal line of parents. Also I was curious to see if they at least still had any type of working ablities. I dont know jeff but I can tell he is very "opinionated" lol but who give a flying F**** how a person comes off on this board. You get access to hundred of opinions for free and if you can't even wade though some snide comments here or there then you shouldn't be hear and you should be paying thousands of dollars to stroke your ego. For me I want a no BS answer to my questions...If I am messing up my dog and I post a training question I WOULD LIKE FOR SOMEONE TO TELL ME!!! I can only speak for my self but If my dog isnt good at sport then I know its because I f***ed him up. Now I am stepping of this damn rickety soap box and going to get ready for a great mandatory fun day 

Kayla


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## Lisa Emerson (Mar 30, 2009)

Cate Helfgott said:


> As far as the genetic stuff goes -- I believe that Franka's owners had some DNA tested at one of the CA universities....and the guy who did the testing said it was a random but dominant allelic mutation...


Hmph. Weird.



Cate Helfgott said:


> buuuuuut, none of that has been mapped yet so it is all theoretical...the spotting thing makes more sense to me just because I know that it's an allele that exists in the breed (as per the captain's own words).


Ditto.



Cate Helfgott said:


> I've always felt the whites spots on the chest and toes was due to the spotting allele and not random...it tends to occur with too much frequency.


In dachshunds, labs, and a number of other breeds, some white has been common on the extremeties (including chest) and does not seem to be related to the three spotting patterns. For instance, 100 or so years ago, a white spot on a dachshund's chest was extremely common, yet partis (tuxedos, piebalds, & extreme whites) were rather uncommon in the breed. Parti labs are, TMK, unheard of, yet there are tons of labs running around with white on their chests, feet, whatever. I agree that the random spotting thing isn't so random, but even so, in my experience it does not seem to be linked to the three spotting patterns in those cases. (Of course, carriers of a spotting pattern can in fact create the same spots.)


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