# The Dutchie = Mali debate .



## kelsey cooke (Jan 2, 2011)

Has anyone got a clue what's going on?
I was looking through some breeders (being the lurker I am!) and have seen some different things discussing the Mali=/=Dutchie debate.
Some breeders say "the Dutchie is a Mali but just brindle" while some others say "they are entirely different breeds".

I'm a confused wreck right now!


----------



## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

There has been lots of discussion on that topic here...search away.


----------



## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

I don't think there is too much to debate here. Registration wise, the Dutch Shepherd and Malionis are separate breeds, but in the working dog world, especially in the Netherlands, registration, papers and pedigrees don't mean much. 
The reality is that the Dutch Shepard as a breed has had a relatively hard time keeping going, and even among formally registered dogs today a very large percentage of the ancestors of most Dutch Shepherds are actually Malinois.
The desire to show the Dutch Shepherds in Schutzhund or IPO has required registration, and many dogs in the past bred without papers have been registered. There has been, shall we say, a certain amount of imagination and creativity behind this process.
The KNPV people could care less, and I don't think there is too much interest in the rest of Europe, where the Malinois popularity in all working venues has been surging.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

pretty easy...dutch (knpv) lines..dogs are the same basically..depending on color..

purbreeds..nuther story


----------



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

kelsey cooke said:


> Has anyone got a clue what's going on?


Not me.  However, I've talked to some that have. From what I've been told (so consider this third-hand info at this point, however much that's worth to you), and a bit of what I've seen, it seems almost more like the types or lines of Malinois. There are French lines which have certain traits or tendencies. Specifically finer boned, maybe a bit twitchier, faster, more agile. Then there are Belgian/NVBK lines, which also have certain traits or tendencies. Specifically then tend to be larger boned, have full bites, be larger than the Frenchies but still fast and agile. Then there are KNPV line dogs. They tend to be bigger (although I've seen some small ones), described as "kamikaze" in their work, stockier, probably a few other descriptors I missed. The KNPV-lined dogs tend to be the ones where people are describing Dutchies as Mals with stripes, but they are _Dutch_ Mals w/ stripes. There has been much spoken about how within the same litter there can be striped dogs and fawn dogs, and they call them Dutch Shepherds of Malinois depending. Then there are people breeding just stripey dogs, FCI registered Dutchies, and all that stuff.

From there there are variances. You get dogs of one "type" that look kind of like another, breeders in France breeding dogs they got from Belgium, KNPV breeders whose stock goes pretty much back to NVBK line dogs (so far as you can tell on the Internet), breeders using dogs from multiple types, and so on. And that's just what a rank novice like me has seen and been told. Then you meet some and there seems to be quite a range.

Michael Ellis has some videos that sort of explain the (or some of the) differences in the major sports/events and the lines/types of dogs best suited for them.

SchH/IPO
http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=154

French Ring
http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=156

Dutch/KNPV dogs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsgZUltKQS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdrkxfN0Mxk&feature=related

Belgian Ring (NVBK) line dogs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQEJ_Jl_tws&feature=related

Mondioring dogs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mosLTuSlFc

Anyway, that's kind of what I've been told a/o seen. If you do a search, there is a lot out there, and various breeders/lines/dogs might match the above entirely or not at all.

-Cheers


----------



## kelsey cooke (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks guys!
Cleared me up, A LOT.


-Not so clueless teenager who needs to write an essay on a balloon


----------



## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

David, about the best explanation i ever seen on the topic. 

The experts opinion would have a combination of propaganda, denial, wishful thinkin and bs.

Thanx.


----------

