# Bloat



## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Brought Jaeger in last night...took one look at him and knew his stomach had twisted.

One emergency surgery later, he's home and stable, but pretty sore. What a scare. My god, I thought we were going to lose him on the way to the vet clinic. Seems like we actually caught it pretty quickly, though, as the vet was pleased with his condition (all things considered) and recovery thus far.

Scary stuff.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh my gawd, that was way too close for comfort. I'm always scared my dog will bloat in the middle of the night & be dead when I wake up. I have a real paranoia about that. I'm so glad Jaegers' was caught in time.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> Brought Jaeger in last night...took one look at him and knew his stomach had twisted.
> 
> One emergency surgery later, he's home and stable, but pretty sore. What a scare. My god, I thought we were going to lose him on the way to the vet clinic. Seems like we actually caught it pretty quickly, though, as the vet was pleased with his condition (all things considered) and recovery thus far.
> 
> Scary stuff.


Can you tell us what the symptoms were? Also, did the vet do a staple?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

And YES, thank heaven he's OK! Man....... that has to be the scariest.....


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I always worry about this, and limit my dog's water intake if it seems like he wants to drink a lot and feed kibble sparingly. But I've heard it can also happen with raw fed dogs and that feeding many meals a day isn't really effective?


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## Julie Ward (Oct 1, 2007)

I had a doberman bloat about 7-ish years ago. Same thing, one look and oh crap....
I'm glad everything turned out okay, it's pretty scary.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Glad your guy is OK! I know that feeling all too well and it really sucks.

I came home one night, gave Lyka water before bed and she ballooned up big time and walked around with her tail down (very unusual for her). I was incredibly lucky that my vet's number is her cell phone and she answered in the middle of the night and got me in touch with a vet that does emergency surgeries not far from here because she thought it might be a partial twist, but couldnt be sure. Turns out it wasn't bloat (x-rays proved that), but they stapled her stomach anyway in surgery the following morning and never did find out exactly what was wrong.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

One of my teammate's USAR dogs just had a close call with bloat just a few weeks ago. The vet at the emergency clinic told him another 10 to 15 minutes and the dog would have been dead. The handler is a fireman and returned home in the evening from his shift to find the dog unconscious and blocking his front door. After breaking down his back door (no key apparently), he found the dog barely breathing. He had no idea what was wrong with the dog, but knew it was obviously serious and immediately rushed him to the 24-hour clinic. He had to carry the dog to the car and gave rescue breaths while driving him to the clinic. It was a very scary night for him. The surgeon told him the dog likely would not survive, but miraculously he did. He's now completely recovered and you wouldn't know it had ever happened (with the exception of the shaved belly and scar).

Makes you wonder exactly why some dogs don't survive and some who are at the brink of dying completely turn around and make it. Scary stuff indeed.


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Can you tell us what the symptoms were? Also, did the vet do a staple?


Well, when I brought him in about 10:30 I had the lights out, so I didn't notice right away... But when I opened a mostly empty peanut butter jar and offered it to him, he walked right past it...so I knew something was wrong. :lol: Funny, but not. He loves those things. He didn't respond to his name either.

When I turned on the lights, I just knew. His abdomen was distended and, when I felt it, tight as a drum; his back was kinda hunched up; he was a little foamy at the mouth; raspy breathing; and he had this really distant look on his face. Grabbed his leash and ran out the door with the phone book. Figured I'd find the closest emergency vet en route. (*Note: A good time to find the closest/best emergency vet is when you don't need one.)

Yes, his stomach is tacked to his abdominal wall now, so I guess it's pretty much impossible for this to ever happen again. I hope. Vet said there's less than a 1% chance. He's really, really hurting - got an incision pretty much the entire length of his body.

Scary isn't quite the word. I was shaking so hard I could hardly drive, let alone dial my phone.

Julie, Mike, and Konnie - glad all the dogs you know made it through okay (bloat or not). I feel horribly guilty as it is, even though the vet said I have been doing everything right to reduce the chances. I can't imagine how bad I'd be feeling if we'd actually lost him.

Thanks for everyone's well wishes! Jaeger thanks you, too!


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## Julie Ward (Oct 1, 2007)

I always have a handful of large hypodermic needles on hand for de-hissing just in case I get another case of bloat here. I de-hissed my doberman immediately before leaving for the vet, and the relief was immediate and evident on her face. I had another dobe, a male, that got into a bag of dog food once and ate himself stupid, miraculously he didn't bloat though.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm over the moon for you... You were so lucky...

My 8 year old male GSD developed bloat in June. Despite a blue light run to the vets, and an operation, he died a hour later.

So sad.  Such a waste. ](*,)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lyn Chen said:


> I always worry about this, and limit my dog's water intake if it seems like he wants to drink a lot and feed kibble sparingly. But I've heard it can also happen with raw fed dogs and that feeding many meals a day isn't really effective?


One of the statistical "trends" among bloat dogs (aside from body type, tendency to inhale food fast, and hyperactivity) is kibble. That can be further broken down into kibble with cooked fat above fifth place in the ingredient list, and so on and so on.

The statistics on raw bloat are very hard to analyze, partly because it seems that raw-fed dogs rarely bloat, but also because the vast majority of dogs, period, are kibble-fed. I think from what I've read that there are no solid bloat numbers on raw-fed dogs, and that it's because the samplings never have a lot of raw-fed dogs in it, period. (I think this because I see conflicting figures in three different sources from the same approximate time period, and because all three have footnotes about the small raw-fed sample.)

The numbers about one-meal or two-meal dogs are close, with an edge for two-meal dogs. This might just be because they are not so eager if they are fed twice, and inhalaing the food is a common bloat factor.

Another common bloat factor, I imagine almost everyone here knows because Tufts made such a surprising splash with this research, is that raised food dishes are bad. :!:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gary Garner said:


> I'm over the moon for you... You were so lucky...
> 
> My 8 year old male GSD developed bloat in June. Despite a blue light run to the vets, and an operation, he died a hour later.
> 
> So sad.  Such a waste. ](*,)


Oh, I am so sorry. That's the age, too.... over seven.

I'm so sorry.


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## Julie Ward (Oct 1, 2007)

> My 8 year old male GSD developed bloat in June. Despite a blue light run to the vets, and an operation, he died a hour later.


Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that.


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Gary Garner said:


> I'm over the moon for you... You were so lucky...
> 
> My 8 year old male GSD developed bloat in June. Despite a blue light run to the vets, and an operation, he died a hour later.
> 
> So sad.  Such a waste. ](*,)


I'm really sorry, too, Gary. Really. What a horrible thing.  

Believe me, I know I got lucky.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

So there is less chance if the dog takes his time eating? Normally I give the raw half-frozen, so the dogs take about 30 minutes to eat. I've had one dog steal about 3 days worth of raw food and the most he'd had was gas and diarrhea.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lyn Chen said:


> So there is less chance if the dog takes his time eating? Normally I give the raw half-frozen, so the dogs take about 30 minutes to eat. I've had one dog steal about 3 days worth of raw food and the most he'd had was gas and diarrhea.


Yes.

I can say that I have never read a conflicting opinion on fast eating being a contributing factor. It's connected to swallowed air.

There are many ways that vet med books suggest slowing the dog, such as hand feeding and scattering kibble all over a large space to make the dog go from piece to piece. Naturally, they do not think to address the simple solutions of RMBs that must be gnawed and chewed or of partially-frozen meat.


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

The night before, he and Dominic both ate whole chickens (well, the kind you buy at the grocery store). About 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 pounds each. For $.49/lb, I couldn't pass them up.

Granted, they were pretty frozen, but I must say that it took both of them SIGNIFICANTLY longer to eat the chickens than it takes them to eat their Canidae.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> ... it took both of them SIGNIFICANTLY longer to eat the chickens than it takes them to eat their Canidae.


'Zackly. ........


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

So it really is helpful to "de-hiss" the abdomen via needle?


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## Julie Ward (Oct 1, 2007)

> So it really is helpful to "de-hiss" the abdomen via needle?


Yes, it helps relieve some of the pressure from the gas expanding the abdomen. I had done it several times while I was working as a vet tech so knew to do it when my own dog bloated.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Does anyone stock a bloat kit?

A pre-measured piece of plastic tubing to insert into the dog's stomach to relieve pressure.

I've inserted stomach tubes in dogs before, so I've thought about it a lot. Not sure I could do it safely while nervous. But there's a 30 min wait for emergency vet services around here...

I'm so terrified of bloat. When I worked at a vet there were just TOO MANY dogs that bloated, had surgery, bloated again, surgery again, bloated again and died - all in one night. It is so sad.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> One of the statistical "trends" among bloat dogs (aside from body type, tendency to inhale food fast, and hyperactivity) is kibble. That can be further broken down into kibble with cooked fat above fifth place in the ingredient list, and so on and so on.


Unfortunately some of the statistical trends make no sense (that fat one being an example). No doubt that body type is significant, eating speed is a factor and that stress/exercise around mealtimes is bad as well.



> The numbers about one-meal or two-meal dogs are close, with an edge for two-meal dogs. This might just be because they are not so eager if they are fed twice, and inhalaing the food is a common bloat factor.
> 
> Another common bloat factor, I imagine almost everyone here knows because Tufts made such a surprising splash with this research, is that raised food dishes are bad. :!:


I don't use raised bowls, but this was another one I question. Not long ago they were recommending raised bowls. Did they take account of the fact that many people with breeds at risk of GDV went out and bought them and that this might have skewed their new data?



Connie Sutherland said:


> I can say that I have never read a conflicting opinion on fast eating being a contributing factor. It's connected to swallowed air.
> 
> There are many ways that vet med books suggest slowing the dog, such as hand feeding and scattering kibble all over a large space to make the dog go from piece to piece. Naturally, they do not think to address the simple solutions of RMBs that must be gnawed and chewed or of partially-frozen meat.


I think whatever the dog is fed, the slower it eats the better (within reason!).


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## Julie Ward (Oct 1, 2007)

> Does anyone stock a bloat kit?
> 
> A pre-measured piece of plastic tubing to insert into the dog's stomach to relieve pressure.


No, but I think it's a great idea. I have watched enough stomach tubes inserted before in dogs with bloat, but never thought of having a stomach tube for home use. Um....if anybody does this at home be sure and do it outside, what comes up sometimes is the most vile concoction you have ever smelled.


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

But isn't there a very real concern about inserting the stomach tube into the esophagus? How is that prevented? Is the "de-hissing" safer than the tube? Is there a danger of puncturing an organ with the needle?


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## Julie Ward (Oct 1, 2007)

You have to try pretty hard to get a tube down the esophagus, it naturally will go down the throat instead. And with de-hissing the needles aren't even close to long enough or inserted far enough to puncture any internal organs. If I had never done it before I would probably have my vet show me how, but it can be the difference between life and death in a bloat case that is borderline fatal and you can do something proactive immediately yourself.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Julie Ward said:


> You have to try pretty hard to get a tube down the esophagus, it naturally will go down the throat instead. And with de-hissing the needles aren't even close to long enough or inserted far enough to puncture any internal organs. If I had never done it before I would probably have my vet show me how, but it can be the difference between life and death in a bloat case that is borderline fatal and you can do something proactive immediately yourself.


If it's anything like tube feeding a puppy, I've done that with no problem. 
Is there any concern with the stomach being twisted and not being able to get the tube down?


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## Shelley Fritzke (Oct 7, 2007)

When my one dog had to have her spleen out due to an injury they tacked down her stomach (common as the spleen helps keep the stomach in place). This surgery (tacking the stomach down) can be very hard on the dog. The specialist who did mine said he has seen dogs not recover from it. Not sure
' why'....

My girl was very uncomfortable for a month or so afterwards. You can try to give your dog Arnica. I would give it at the 1M or 10 M strength. This will help temendously with the pain, swelling, bruising etc. You will be amazed at how it can make such a difference for your dog. You can give it every few hours as needed. 

I do have a paper on how to respond to bloat through accupressure, if anyone wants a copy. I have not had to try it or use it, but some say it really works. Remember that Bloat and torsion, although simular are also different. 

Shelley


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Shelley Fritzke said:


> Remember that Bloat and torsion, although simular are also different.
> 
> Shelley


Yes. Most torsion starts with bloat. But not all bloat cases suffer torsion.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

When Jessie ate those packets of Moist N Meaty she blew up like a balloon within 2 hours, but I don't think she bloated. I was kind of scared when I left her, but they didn't seem too concerned.


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