# 1.Should the working pup be a house dog or a kennel dog?



## Jeff Kuchel

I'm not sure what to do with this, Kennel the dog or have it in the house. I thought I heard before that if they stay in the house they can loss the drive.


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## Brian McQuain

Jeff Kuchel said:


> I'm not sure what to do with this, Kennel the dog or have it in the house. I thought I heard before that if they stay in the house they can loss the drive.


I dont think it matters where your working dog stays. Ours have always stayed in the house with no loss in drive


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## Craig Snyder

I'm a believer in house dogs for the most part. Especially if you only have 1-3 dogs. 

Personally I don't think kennel vs. house makes much a difference. If the dog has the drive, it has it. I think having the dog in the house makes the handler/dog bond stronger, and if anything, should increase the dog's drive to please you.

Craig


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## Nicole Stark

Your decision will probably be decided by what's most important to you. Either the dog in the house and integrated into the daily routine of the family or be housed separately with dedicated time and a particular structure/routine for that time. 

I've got something in between a kennel/house set up. Even still when I put hours of exercise and offer endless freedom to the Dutch or Mastiff at the end of they're both still the same dogs they were when I took the out.


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## Faisal Khan

If the dog has what it takes then it does not matter where he sleeps. Did a wise man say that?


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## julie allen

A kennel dog may appear to have more drive, but what it has is more pent up energy. Which you actually spend more time trying to control them running, jumping, barking, biting, pissing on everything, than a dog that has manners and still has the drive.

I recently had this discussion with a woman who bought a pup, and believes working dogs must be kenneled. Compare hers to mine, similar drives, her male is actually a litter better than my female. She brings him to train, the dog is psycho spinning, won't focus, is distracted by everything, bites her, jumps, has a crappy recall, etc. I often hear, man that pup has crazy drive.
My female sits quietly, looks like a lump on a log, then goes straight to work focused, performs great, quickly, and back to the kennel waiting her turn again.
She does come inside, has an acre fenced with toys and dogs and plays all day. We go to every public outing we can, pet stores, off lead walks on the farm, lots of play time.
Her pup is in a kennel, not allowed toys so he won't "lose his drive" and only comes out to train. He is "a pain to handle" so he doesnt get to go anywhere.
Yesterday at a demo, my dogs worked off lead in a crowded fire prevention festival, tons of people, fair rides, food, bands, the bagpipes full blast, and the PA system beside us. 
Her finished dog, completely freaked. 

So it doesn't matter house or kennel, as long as you spend the time required, to whatever each dogs needs individually, drive is drive, and they have it or they don't. It comes down to whether you want a dog inside, or kept in a kennel.


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## Daniel Lybbert

IMO. I think a good working dog with lots of drive will wreck your house. Therefore you must teach it not to wreck stuff. I believe there is enough things to teach it for work with out fighting over him wrecking my couch. Therefore I say put it in a kennel. If you train him 3 or 4 times a week he wont need more interaction than that.


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## Jerry Lyda

Obedience is obedience either in the house or on the field. It makes no difference where you keep him. Obedience is the KEY to any working dog.


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## Timothy Stacy

I assume in the house means "crate trained" so to me it is easier to have the crate in the house and as the dog starts getting into things he should be leashed with you in the house. It's very amusing to me when "working dog people" can not/don't know how to teach manors to a dog and then use the excuse its too high drive. Makes me wonder what they are training and how they train in sport. 
It takes time, commitment, and consistency .....a dog only eats your coach if you let it. Pretty simple and basic pet obedience IMO but maybe some are afraid they will kill drive in their not so "high drive" dog or possibly there dog is handler soft, not sure.
There are police and working dogs of many venues who live in the house... I'd say do what you want


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## Timothy Stacy

To me, the biggest reason for having your " bite trained" dog in the house is so that one day he can roam free and protect. Having your biting/ protection dog in the outside kennel is like leaving your loaded gun out in the shed!
Especially if you only have a couple dogs.


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## leslie cassian

I have my dogs in the house because I like having them around. Also, because I live in a crappy neighbourhood, so I want them inside, protecting my worthless stuff, instead of in a kennel out in the yard where they might bark all day and annoy my neighbours or fall victim to malicious intent.

Being house dogs and having manners and the ability to relax when there's nothing going on doesn't seem to have crushed their drive so much that it has affected their desire to train or work. 

They hang out with each other and play with compatible dogs (Ronan loves his GSD girlfriends), I take them places, socialize them with people and let them run off leash and act like dogs. I also let them sleep on the bed. I think happy dogs make good workers, YMMV.


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## Jennifer Michelson

I will add to the 'it probably doesnt matter' crowd. I like very high drive dogs and both of mine have been described as high energy and high drive. The young one is kind of crazy and is a lot like a Mal. They both live to work and both live as 'pets' in the house. I have a crate and am not afraid to use it. So far it seems that I crate pups/young dogs when I am not home until they are about 1 yr old. Then they get more freedom. I also have a good kitchen area to gate them in and they are there when I am not home. My young one had to be taught that when I put him behind a gate, he must stay behind the gate (he would jump out immediately). He did take a bit of convincing (he truly believes that I am not to be out of sight...), but he learned. He is more difficult than my older dog was, but neither dog has been destructive. They are not allowed on furniture, must sit or down and stay before eating or going outside. Again my younger dog is much less compliant than my older one was, but he has learned and will keep getting better as he gets older (I hope!). It can highly irritating to have a dog up you butt because he is convinced that any time you stand up , you must be taking him out to do something, but that is what gates are for.


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## Lauren Hogge

I don't think it's the house or kennel that makes the difference...its the handler/owner. The owners that treat their dogs as pets and not as if they are working dogs with a job to do always have trouble getting what they want out of the dog on the field.


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## Bob Scott

With the doesn't matter crowd! Both my GSDs are outside dogs for no other reason then the shedding. Both spent the first 7-8 months in the house learning basic house manners and early work with marker training.
The OB competition terriers as well as the working earth dogs were all house dogs. 
My first SAR dog (Australian Shepherd) was also a yard dog. Again only because of the shedding.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

All are kenneled, have to much dogs who cant go along with eachother, i hate teaching housemanners. I/ we get annoyed, not good for a puppy. So for their and our best will kenneled.


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## Timothy Stacy

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> All are kenneled, have to much dogs who cant go along with eachother, i hate teaching housemanners. I/ we get annoyed, not good for a puppy. So for their and our best will kenneled.


That could get rather bloody with that many anyhowLOL.


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## Joby Becker

Timothy Stacy said:


> That could get rather bloody with that many anyhowLOL.


why? they are pack animals, they will just school eachother and work it out, wont end in anything serious, wild dogs and wolves rarely seriously fight, and just mostly posture and use body language to work it out....


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## Timothy Stacy

Joby Becker said:


> why? they are pack animals, they will just school eachother and work it out, wont end in anything serious, wild dogs and wolves rarely seriously fight, and just mostly posture and use body language to work it out....


I have a feeling you'd have some vet bills a couple times a year and it would not be surprising if they'd kill one. Wild dogs and wolves are able to flee/flight, much different than a house environment.


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## susan tuck

Joby Becker said:


> why? they are pack animals, they will just school eachother and work it out, wont end in anything serious, wild dogs and wolves rarely seriously fight, and just mostly posture and use body language to work it out....


Joby I don't think this holds true with female dogs, I have seen some awful bloody battles requiring veterinary attention. It also seems like once a couple female dogs get into it, it happens again and again, it's never quashed.


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## Kadi Thingvall

I'm in the "raise them where you want them" crowd. If being taught house manners is going to squash my dogs drive, then it's not the dog for me, doesn't have nearly the drive levels I want.

My dogs are indoor/outdoor. They have a large dog yard to run around and play in when outside unsupervised, plus when I'm outside with them they get full run of the backyard. They also are in the house, and sleep inside at night. Some are in more than others, during the day I have 2-4 dogs that can be left loose in the house, the youngsters are outside where they can run and play. And sometimes one or two of the older dogs are outside also. Just depends.

I like having the dogs inside, although I have to sweep every day due to the hair (hardwood floors). But we spend a lot of time doing "stupid pet tricks" in addition to working obedience exercises when they are inside with me, that translate into an even better working bond, and also various skills that may seem goofy but actually can result in better generalization of skills and also better dog/handler communication.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Timothy Stacy said:


> That could get rather bloody with that many anyhowLOL.


Yup. 15 dogs in a small house, with 2 todlers, 2 ft jobs,1 FIL, 2 cats...no thank you...i keep them kenneled..


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## Timothy Saunders

One chain of thought is a working dog should be put in a kennel to keep It's training as Sharp as possible. Kenneled meaning outside .


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## Robin Van Hecke

I don't worry about the dog's drives, I worry about the state of my house.


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## john axe

right or wrong I always kept my service kenneled after being together all day mainly narc searches . he needed time just to relax in the kennel .no commands etc.


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## Joby Becker

Timothy Stacy said:


> I have a feeling you'd have some vet bills a couple times a year and it would not be surprising if they'd kill one. Wild dogs and wolves are able to flee/flight, much different than a house environment.


that was the ole' sarcastic wink in my post, like Thomas does.. sorry for the sarcasm..


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## Joby Becker

susan tuck said:


> Joby I don't think this holds true with female dogs, I have seen some awful bloody battles requiring veterinary attention. It also seems like once a couple female dogs get into it, it happens again and again, it's never quashed.


I was kidding. sorry that was not clear...just injecting my thoughts on other topics into this thread, like comparing wild animals to purpose driven selectively bred dogs, that may be worlds apart from eachother.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

susan tuck said:


> Joby I don't think this holds true with female dogs, I have seen some awful bloody battles requiring veterinary attention. It also seems like once a couple female dogs get into it, it happens again and again, it's never quashed.


I've always had multiple bitches. Usually when the younger turns 2, they have a go at it. Then I intervene and its over and they are together the rest of their lives. The only exception to this were two littermates that were 1/2 corgi, 1/2 rat terrier. One was going to kill the other any chance she got after they reached a certain age. The ones I've separated have been the males. Ours are house dogs. Like Leslie, I like them in and around me. For what I do, I haven't had them live as indoor dogs and pets affect their work. 


T


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## Joby Becker

it is not only 1/2 rat terrier. and 1/2 corgi that want to kill eachother..

BTW...whats up with that?

all the female dogs I have raised, seriously, have wanted to try to kill eachother (i think) by 9-16 months..and would most likely, if I let them...

The fact that they were under control in my presence did not change the fact that they still would like to fight and possibly kill eachother..

bitches are almost worse than males in some regards..

either way.. almost every dog, dogs, and litter of pups, has NOT behaved in the same manner as wild/feral dogs would..

I am sure that the situation of my involvement has influenced this, but it does not change that fact.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Joby Becker said:


> it is not only 1/2 rat terrier. and 1/2 corgi that want to kill eachother..
> 
> BTW...whats up with that?
> 
> .


My breeding nightmare. Shipped semen from my stud dog to a leased bitch. Bitch owner whelped the litter. I got them and mother at 9 days to raise. They were a bit strange from the beginning. DNA confirmed not my stud dog. 5 years later I was told that a rat terrier had gotten into the kennel.

T


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## Bob Scott

I've had multiple dogs all my life. Multiple males, multiple males with "a" female but I've never had more then one female at a time. They are called bitches for a reason. :-o :-#


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## Alice Bezemer

Bob Scott said:


> I've had multiple dogs all my life. Multiple males, multiple males with "a" female but I've never had more then one female at a time. They are called bitches for a reason. :-o :-#


Amen to that!

Had males fight and it ended without to much problems or I ended it for them. Had females fight and they tend to involve you in the fight! They will turn on you and then continue to finish their own fight. My personal experiance is that females will always keep sizing each other up after they have been in a fight and will be very sneaky about it as well. Males are more direct in their fights and laid back in the aftermath, females are sneaky and and vendictive.

As for kennel or house dog? Depends on what you want and nothing more. I keep one in the house and one in a kennel. Caylinn is inside since she will never leave this house again. Robbie is outside since he will get sold as soon as he has done his trial. I'm pretty simple, dogs that get sold are kennel raised, dogs that are not going to get sold get to live in the house. Drive wise it makes no difference at all.


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## Bob Scott

Males fight to dominate. Once it's determined it's usually done. Females fight to hurt, trash and humiliate one another.
It's like wimmins in a bar fight. Rip, tear and hold a grudge. No rules apply! :grin:


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## Joby Becker

Bob Scott said:


> Males fight to dominate. Once it's determined it's usually done. Females fight to hurt, trash and humiliate one another.
> It's like wimmins in a bar fight. Rip, tear and hold a grudge. No rules apply! :grin:


some bitches do that to males.

but we AND society tried to protect them..

I agree bitches are worse in many regards, but would add that males of certain breeds are not always just "working shit out", too many dead dogs I have heard of... to agree with that, hook line and////


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## Craig Snyder

Two spayed females in the house. Have only had a few incidents. But the younger one clearly rules the roost and takes whatever she wants. But they do play together all day long.

It can be done.

I don't think I'd want to try to add a third however!

Craig


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## susan tuck

Alice Bezemer said:


> Amen to that!
> 
> Had males fight and it ended without to much problems or I ended it for them. Had females fight and they tend to involve you in the fight! They will turn on you and then continue to finish their own fight. My personal experiance is that females will always keep sizing each other up after they have been in a fight and will be very sneaky about it as well. Males are more direct in their fights and laid back in the aftermath, females are sneaky and and vendictive.


This has been my experience as well.


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## susan tuck

As to the question of kenneling, I don't think it makes a difference with regards to quality care of the dog or drives, it's more a matter of the persons personal preference. My adult male is a house dog, my 2 pups are not, though I do let them in the house every once in a while.


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## Lindsay Janes

I prefer to keep my pack indoor because I like to be closer to them. I like to keep an eye on them to make sure that they are healthy and well. I don't have a problem if I need to kennel a dog outdoor. It's just a personal preference.


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## susan tuck

I don't consider my dogs to be a pack.


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## Sara Waters

I have 4 females and 2 males. All high drive, especially my BC. They are house dogs and are happy to chill in the house. I do crate the boys at night. 

I have less trouble with the females. I have to separate the boys because they will draw blood on each other if I left them together, nothing serious todate but I dont trust them together. There is a continuous ongoing power struggle which is quite frankly a pain. I put 2 bitches and 1 male together if I have to go out and leave them and that works well. I have never really had bitches fight badly, a few noisy scuffles from time to time but nothing serious especially once the pecking order has been established. I trust them together more than I trust the boys together.

As to drive, mine chill in the house but as soon as we step out side to go train or work sheep the dogs are in major drive and super keen. My high drive BC can go from total chill to almost off the dial as far as drive is concerned if he thinks we are about to do something sheepy. I wouldnt want him anymore drivey.


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## Tiago Fontes

Kennel for my peace of mind... Mostly because Im a busy person and cant be supervising them all day.

So, a nice comfortable kennel is how we do it.


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## Nancy Jocoy

I keep mine outside during the day for heat tolerance/cold tolerance - the heat part it really seems to make a difference. Not about drive.

I have the luxury of working from home and can go out frequently during the day to interact though. He comes in in the evening though to sleep.

I do bring him in if it is one of those rain all day days.


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## Amber Scott Dyer

my mal/x is fine in the house while I'm there. He plays with only the dog toys, doesn't pee anywhere, doesn't mess with the birds. Still runs around like a chicken on crack sometimes, but all in all, okay. 

Monday, we didn't latch the kennel right or something, and he got out. He was alone for about an hour. He peed all over the wall, pooped on the living room rug, pulled all the stuffing out of a dog bed, and tore up parts of the beforementioned rug. He also pulled the paper out of the tray in the bottom of the macaw's cage and scattered the spilled bird food across the room. 

I guess my point is that he's the first dog I've ever had that's good at PRETENDING to be house trained.


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## Joby Becker

Amber Scott said:


> my mal/x is fine in the house while I'm there. He plays with only the dog toys, doesn't pee anywhere, doesn't mess with the birds. Still runs around like a chicken on crack sometimes, but all in all, okay.
> 
> Monday, we didn't latch the kennel right or something, and he got out. He was alone for about an hour. He peed all over the wall, pooped on the living room rug, pulled all the stuffing out of a dog bed, and tore up parts of the beforementioned rug. He also pulled the paper out of the tray in the bottom of the macaw's cage and scattered the spilled bird food across the room.
> 
> I guess my point is that he's the first dog I've ever had that's good at PRETENDING to be house trained.


if he only scattered the bird's food around the room, what he do with whatever else was on the paper???


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## Amber Scott Dyer

wellll... there were whole parts of paper missing, so you can imagine


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## Joby Becker

Amber Scott said:


> wellll... there were whole parts of paper missing, so you can imagine


dont kiss him for a while.. Birds are scary as far as things to worry about healthwise..


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## Karen M Wood

I like my dogs in the house with me. 
A, Florida has some horriable bugs, all year long. We don't get a "Winter break" from the skeeters.
B, It's flaming hot out there. If i don't want to be outside then i think my dog can hang inside with me.
C, Well trained protection dog locked in a kennel in the back yard is worthless if the home invaders come crashing through my front door. (We get that sh!t down here)
D, I have kennels in the house. 1 for the pup because she is still too young to have run of the place. 1 for the older dog that i don't even close the door on. It's just her bed and she likes it.
E, I don't like "really high drive dogs" they do drive me crazy. So my dog are very liveable in my house.

And lastly every dog and household is different, what works for one may not work at all for another.
And I've lived 13 years with two bitches that hated each other and spent several trips to the vet for stitches. So i now know how to manage dumb hateful dogs. But i hope to never have that again.
Best of luck with your new pup!
K


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## Gillian Schuler

My sentiments entirely.

We live in a small country and in the lowlands are very near our neighbours. At a dog training school a woman said that her GSD pup started crying in the outside kennel at night. "How long for?" I asked. "Until the police came" she said :grin:

I am not against people keeping their dogs in kennels - that's their business but I feel happier if they are in the house with us. Not only for protection but for health reasons. I know of more than one case of torsion that wasn't discovered until the next day - too late. Although I admit, if we went out for the evening and came home late, it could happen to us, too.

As for drive, as someone said, this is just expended energy but on our way to the dog clubs, our dogs have always built up enough drive to satisfy the helper.

"Driving the drive" so to speak!!


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