# Poll: Fish oil capsules or liquid?



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm trying to decide if I want to carry liquid fish oil that you would pour over their food or fish oil capsules for my practice. I would have the option of special ordering the other type if someone really wanted capsules versus liquid. It would be slightly more expensive per day (like 15 cents per day for a 50 lbs dog) to use capsules for the brand I want to carry, but some people don't like touching the oil.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Grizzly Salmon oil comes in a pump bottle, no measuring, I just held it over the food bowl and gave it a squirt or two.


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## Lori Gallo (May 16, 2011)

Maren , I use both, depending on what they're eating that day. I have my dogs on a raw diet and the capsules are easier to slip inside the skin of the chicken. If I'm feeding beef or venison etc, I add the liquid. 
That's not very helpful now is it!
What brand are you considering just out of curiosity?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm looking into carrying Nordic Naturals since the health food stores around here only carry the human variety, not the pet variety.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I did not vote because the grizzly seems more expensive than cheap pills but I must admit I am really liking it.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Edward Egan said:


> Grizzly Salmon oil comes in a pump bottle, no measuring, I just held it over the food bowl and gave it a squirt or two.


So the issue with the pump bottles is that just like any pump bottle, it actually pumps air (oxygen) right into the oil, which will make it go rancid earlier. That's why I prefer the non-pump style.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So the issue with the pump bottles is that just like any pump bottle, it actually pumps air (oxygen) right into the oil, which will make it go rancid earlier. That's why I prefer the non-pump style.


I've had bottles in use for mouths. Just refrigerate after it's open. No big deal. Never had any go rancid.
I never used any other oil, but I seen dramatic results with this product. 

Not sure how the pump design works exactly, but I don't see it pumping O2 into the oil, but the empty area above the oil.


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## Melissa Thom (Jun 21, 2011)

My dogs are under 10lbs for the most part so I just use capsules most of the time.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I use Grizzly Salmon Oil. To avoid the problem of it going rancid, I keep it in the fridge, and also I order (2) 32 oz bottles at a time. 4 pumps once a day for my adult male.

I was ordering the gallon bottle (another brand), but found that it went rancid even though I kept it in the fridge. The other problem was the bottle was just so damn big and unwieldy - it was difficult to manage.

You can also keep it in the freezer.


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Melissa Thom said:


> My dogs are under 10lbs for the most part so I just use capsules most of the time.


Yup, essentially that. Also all my dogs will take a pill but two will get cagey if I try adding oil. They dislike the smell or texture or something...


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Doc I cant really say in the vote because I have used them both (caps and liquid). 

I will say though...if you carry them let me know and I will buy mine from you. You give out a buttload of help to people and the last time I checked they weren't standing around handing out DVM's at the local pet mart.


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## Lori Gallo (May 16, 2011)

Brian Anderson said:


> Doc I cant really say in the vote because I have used them both (caps and liquid).
> 
> I will say though...if you carry them let me know and I will buy mine from you. You give out a buttload of help to people and the last time I checked they weren't standing around handing out DVM's at the local pet mart.


Ditto


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

well if you are not wanting to go with a pump go capsules for sure , the non pump stuff is messy i find, and gets all over the bottle , pet people like easy not messy
i use the grizzly oil too , no issues , doesnt last long enough with 8 dogs to go bad


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I was just at a dermatologist and they said that although fish oils are not usually an allergen, sometimes the actual capsules can be. Something to think about if you might be using fish oils to help dogs with allergies.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I was just at a dermatologist and they said that although fish oils are not usually an allergen, sometimes the actual capsules can be. Something to think about if you might be using fish oils to help dogs with allergies.


That is some good information Jennifer. I did not know this. Thanks


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Maren,
I use Natures Logic for multiple reasons. It is a liquid, but I find this easy to mix in with their food.
What makes me like this product is that it has the correct EPA/DHA ratio. It is also very concentrated, so it requires less oil to reach the appropriate dosing. This is very important for me because the cardiac dosages for Omega 3 fatty acids are pretty high ( EPA 40 mg/kg and DHA 25 mg /kg).

http://www.natureslogic.com/products/saroil.html


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I was just at a dermatologist and they said that although fish oils are not usually an allergen, sometimes the actual capsules can be. Something to think about if you might be using fish oils to help dogs with allergies.


Yes, that was one of my concerns as well, especially since I help people with diet trials and what not. Most capsules these days are made out of bovine gelatin or soy (Nordic Naturals uses gelatin).


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

Caps Since it oxidizes as soon as it contacts Oxygen the caps are better long term


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Gina Pasieka said:


> Maren,
> I use Natures Logic for multiple reasons. It is a liquid, but I find this easy to mix in with their food.
> What makes me like this product is that it has the correct EPA/DHA ratio. It is also very concentrated, so it requires less oil to reach the appropriate dosing. This is very important for me because the cardiac dosages for Omega 3 fatty acids are pretty high ( EPA 40 mg/kg and DHA 25 mg /kg).
> 
> http://www.natureslogic.com/products/saroil.html


Yeah, apparently all the veterinary nutritionists love Nordic Naturals. I was thinking about Welactin because I can get it in right away from my distributor so I don't have to stock a bunch of it, but I didn't like how they have vegetable oil in there too. I like the Nordic Naturals because I am very impressed with their processing and the n-3 EFA profile is just about identical to Nature's Logic: 

http://www.nordicnaturals.com/pet/nnpet_prodO3_liq.html

You can get the even more concentrated human stuff from Nordic Naturals. I bought some of the human Ultra Omega and it was like 3200 mg of total n-3s in one teaspoon, WOW! I was using that much right before my Rottie died (wouldn't normally go that high, but with pulmonary metastasis, what the hey, right?)


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Edward Egan said:


> I've had bottles in use for mouths. Just refrigerate after it's open. No big deal. Never had any go rancid.
> I never used any other oil, but I seen dramatic results with this product.
> 
> Not sure how the pump design works exactly, but I don't see it pumping O2 into the oil, but the empty area above the oil.


When you first put the pump on and have to pump it like half a dozen times before it will start to come out, I think that's what they mostly mean about putting extra oxygen into the oil. Like for the small dog/cat sized bottles, it uses a medicine dropper but it basically says not to blow bubbles into the oil:



> Apply oil onto food, or serve by itself. Do not use dropper for delivering oil to the mouth of your dog or cat.* To preserve freshness, do not depress bulb with pipette in the oil.* Clean pipette thoroughly between each use. Use within three (3) months after bottle is opened. Store bottle with original cap in refrigerator after opening. Store unopened bottle in a cool, dry place, away from sunlight


http://www.nordicnaturals.com/pet/nnpet_prodO3_2oz.html

Fish oil that has gone the least bit oxidized is no good and can actually be harmful, so I want to make sure it stays as fresh as possible as long as possible.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Brian Anderson said:


> Doc I cant really say in the vote because I have used them both (caps and liquid).
> 
> I will say though...if you carry them let me know and I will buy mine from you. You give out a buttload of help to people and the last time I checked they weren't standing around handing out DVM's at the local pet mart.


There's people standing around Petsmart definitely thinking they have the equivalent of a DVM though. :-o But thanks, I will let you and Lori know! I always try to price it very competitively and I can have it shipped right from the manufacturer as well. Thanks for thinking of me. :mrgreen:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> When you first put the pump on and have to pump it like half a dozen times before it will start to come out, I think that's what they mostly mean about putting extra oxygen into the oil. Like for the small dog/cat sized bottles, it uses a medicine dropper but it basically says not to blow bubbles into the oil:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you undo a pump bottle you can depress the plunger, hold it down, and screw it back in, then let it come up, repeat if necessary to avoid air going into product. It then just draws..

I have no vote, I am new to fish oils..but why not carry both kinds? seems to me like that would be the way to go, you then have whichever people want, makes sense unless there is a super short shelf life or something..I am sure you can start with small quantities of both, and gauge your needs..

unless there is some other reason not to do it...


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> There's people standing around Petsmart definitely thinking they have the equivalent of a DVM though. :-o But thanks, I will let you and Lori know! I always try to price it very competitively and I can have it shipped right from the manufacturer as well. Thanks for thinking of me. :mrgreen:


Uh huh and lots of "trainers" there too lol..yes please let me know.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> If you undo a pump bottle you can depress the plunger, hold it down, and screw it back in, then let it come up, repeat if necessary to avoid air going into product. It then just draws..
> 
> I have no vote, I am new to fish oils..but why not carry both kinds? seems to me like that would be the way to go, you then have whichever people want, makes sense unless there is a super short shelf life or something..I am sure you can start with small quantities of both, and gauge your needs..
> 
> unless there is some other reason not to do it...


The reason I don't want to carry both comes down to inventory. I can't carry very much stock as a house call vet (can't just run in the back and grab some more), so I have an intentionally limited pharmacy. With my main veterinary supply distributor, if I order most anything by 8 PM, I can get it in by the afternoon the next day with free shipping. So with a lot of my products, I just buy one or two units worth and then if I need more, replace as I need it. But my preferred brands of fish oil are not carried by that distributor, so I have to order it separately and it takes a longer time to get here since it ships from the west coast instead of from Kansas City, Kansas. So I basically need the product that is going to have the best rate of compliance with clients, the best price, and the best quality product.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> The reason I don't want to carry both comes down to inventory. I can't carry very much stock as a house call vet (can't just run in the back and grab some more), so I have an intentionally limited pharmacy. With my main veterinary supply distributor, if I order most anything by 8 PM, I can get it in by the afternoon the next day with free shipping. So with a lot of my products, I just buy one or two units worth and then if I need more, replace as I need it. But my preferred brands of fish oil are not carried by that distributor, so I have to order it separately and it takes a longer time to get here since it ships from the west coast instead of from Kansas City, Kansas. So I basically need the product that is going to have the best rate of compliance with clients, the best price, and the best quality product.


I can see that, but it seems you could keep small inventory at your home and load up a couple to take out with you...how big are they?

I did a lot of mobile sales (tattoo supplies) and we carried a lot of medical products. gotta have what people want..when they want it..not the same thing I realize, but it sort of is...certain people like certain products.

just looking at it pragmatically...sales is sales, and I am sure vets are involved in sales as well.

You got 12 votes, split down the middle on here... 50/50...6 each...that tells me you should carry both, from a business standpoint..I am sure you are not as poor as me, and can afford to keep some inventory.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Oh no, I am definitely poor right now...  I won't be able to pay myself a salary for quite a long time. Just trying to keep the business related bills at bay really while business during the slow time of year slowly picks up. And I've been doing too many working dog friends favors! Bad business model. :mrgreen:

One problem I run into is that I need to keep most of my drugs and medications at room temperature or refrigerated (certain drugs, heartworm/feline viral tests, vaccines, etc), so I cannot leave like 3 big toolboxes worth of equipment for any major length of time in the car. So I have to travel pretty lean. I usually spend quite a bit of time on the phone with clients before a visit to make sure I bring everything I need. I dread the "oh, by the way, Fluffy's been having X for 10 days that I forgot to mention yesterday on the phone..." comment. With fish oil, I don't want it to be sitting on my shelf for a long time and that's money wasted in inventory I don't have. Based on this discussion, I think I will end up stocking the liquid and then having people order the capsules if that's what they prefer.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Oh no, I am definitely poor right now...  I won't be able to pay myself a salary for quite a long time. Just trying to keep the business related bills at bay really while business during the slow time of year slowly picks up. And I've been doing too many working dog friends favors! Bad business model. :mrgreen:
> 
> One problem I run into is that I need to keep most of my drugs and medications at room temperature or refrigerated (certain drugs, heartworm/feline viral tests, vaccines, etc), so I cannot leave like 3 big toolboxes worth of equipment for any major length of time in the car. So I have to travel pretty lean. I usually spend quite a bit of time on the phone with clients before a visit to make sure I bring everything I need. I dread the "oh, by the way, Fluffy's been having X for 10 days that I forgot to mention yesterday on the phone..." comment. With fish oil, I don't want it to be sitting on my shelf for a long time and that's money wasted in inventory I don't have. Based on this discussion, I think I will end up stocking the liquid and then having people order the capsules if that's what they prefer.


ah, makes sense...

first of all, NO favors..if your services are good, get what your worth..
probably have some PET friends too, why not just do them favors too, along with the working people. 

second of all, if you are in a car, might have to get some kind of van eventually. then you could run a college dorm fridge, or pack a bigger cooler..

Its a buyers market on used bigger vehicles now. There are tons of slightly used fleet vehicles for sale or auction..

I know of 6 vehicles that friends purchased at differnent times in the last couple years from the University of Minnesota....


Dont laugh but we actually run short school buses now, vans were too small for the inventory..like a small church bus..they are cheap vehicles, can find them with low miles in great shape for under 4,000 usually, sometimes in the 2500-3000 range Take all the seats out and you have a good amount of space in there..to do whatever..gas mileage is not good at all, but when you do the math it is great vehicle for our purposes, and if something major goes wrong it is easier to not have to think about dumping a bunch of money into it, cause it didnt cost 45,000-50,000 each vehicle gets about 700-1000 miles a week on it, so it is not a good choice to spend alot a vehicle for that kind of mileage in my opinion. use them for 2-3 years, get another one.

Hell I might just get a short bus for personal use, bring back some good memories...maybe a helmet too, for the muzzle work


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Well I pushed it over the 50% mark for capsules  I like that they are easy to store and easy to give. Haven't had any problems with them going rancid, and the dogs don't mind eating them. A few dogs I had to prick the capsule the first few times so they realized there was something "yummy" (yummy is their opinion LOL) inside then they started eat them on their own. 1 dog I don't think liked the texture of the capsule but decided it was worth crunching on to get to the oil. 

I don't worry about refrigerating the capsules either, which is very handy when I'm traveling, I can just throw the bottle of capsules in with the rest of the dog supplies, and go. I make sure I keep it room temperature, ie don't leave it in the vehicle and let it bake in the sun, but other than that I haven't needed to give it any special treatment.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Liquid for me. 


But also, I'm glad to get this pump info. I had read somewhere that the pump protected the oil better than the screw-cap. I should have read further!


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Liquid for me.
> 
> 
> But also, I'm glad to get this pump info. I had read somewhere that the pump protected the oil better than the screw-cap. I should have read further!


Logic would tell me that with a pump you prime the pump with 2 pumps and other than replacing the oil as it's used with air, there is no other exchange. However with a cap, every time you open it, a partial air exchange takes place, so I would believe that more fresh air contacts the oil in a cap/bottle than a pump bottle.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I thought they'd be about equivalent too, but when I talked to the veterinary rep for a while yesterday about it when I asked about a pump (since obviously people like the pump), they apparently tested pumping versus pouring and found pouring to be better. They said they are testing a syringe like device to be dipped into the oil and pull the correct amount out, but that has not passed the testing phase yet.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

So I now have the fish oil in stock. Because it has a tendency to drip when the bottle is first opened and poured into a teaspoon, I am putting a 5 ml syringe in the bottle to draw up how much I need (5 ml=1 tsp). Seems to be working well so far and the dogs are enjoying it as always. Once the level in the bottle goes down a bit, I'll probably go back to pouring.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> So I now have the fish oil in stock. Because it has a tendency to drip when the bottle is first opened and poured into a teaspoon, I am putting a 5 ml syringe in the bottle to draw up how much I need (5 ml=1 tsp). Seems to be working well so far and the dogs are enjoying it as always. Once the level in the bottle goes down a bit, I'll probably go back to pouring.


That was very clever.

Now I can't believe the little protocols I have developed over time around that little fish-oil bottle in my fridge. I keep tiny pieces of paper towel stacked on top of the fridge for any stray drip, and I keep the bottle on an upside-down lid with a tiny bit of paper towel in it.

AND YET! All this time (I'm talking years here), I have always had syringes around so I could buy one size of Frontline, etc., and split it up for the smaller dogs. #-o 

:lol: :lol:




Maren Bell Jones said:


> They said they are testing a syringe like device to be dipped into the oil and pull the correct amount out, but that has not passed the testing phase yet.


I'll Beta-test it!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I have seen some pretty big syringes, like ones used to drain an abcess on a horse. What about just buying the oil then transfering it to as many big syringes as needed for storing. One time access to the air as you fill the syringe, then each time you need some oil you just dispense the right amount until that syringe is empty. Then move on to the next one.


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

As a dietary supplement Flax oil works well as an alternative to fish based products.Without getting too complicated Flax oil contains ALA which is then converted to substrate for synthesis of 3 omega fatty acids.Stumbled upon this when after several trips to the vet couldn't get rid of itching and a hot spot.
Tried Flax oil and problem was gone in a week, Also coat is more healthy looking with a great shine.
Flax keeps well sans oder.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Edward Weiss said:


> As a dietary supplement Flax oil works well as an alternative to fish based products.Without getting too complicated Flax oil contains ALA which is then converted to substrate for synthesis of 3 omega fatty acids. ....



You might want to do a quick "search" here about long-chain 3s versus short-chain 3s for dogs. 

While there is nothing inherently bad about flax oil for dogs (not at all, as far as I know), it cannot substitute for marine products (fish oil is my choice).

The mechanism that allows humans to ingest shorter-chain Omega 3s (like ALA) and convert them (even though inefficiently and at a low rate) to the DHA and EPA that I am taking and giving fish oil for is almost completely non-functional in dogs.


ETA
First post that came up:




Connie Sutherland said:


> Dogs mostly lack one of the enzymes needed to use ALA. Humans can convert ALA (flax and other plant sources of Omega 3s give us ALA) into the beneficial long-chain Omega 3s (DHA and EPA) at maybe a 10-15% rate. Dogs cannot.
> 
> So while canola and flax oils and the like might be useful to a dog who is otherwise not getting enough raw fat, they are not a source of long-chain Omega 3s for most (nearly all) dogs. In fact, although I keep reading that "a few" dogs might have that enzyme that allows coversion of ALA to long-chain EFAs, I have never read who those few dogs might be. :lol: I want names.
> 
> ...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...-oil-supplements-20001/index5.html#post269128

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...s-older-stud-dog-12232/index7.html#post141113

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/royal-canin-vet-diet-ivd-3410/

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/solid-gold-flax-seed-oil-3051/#post37203


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

Interesting theoretical consideration but the contrary apears well substantiated .
There are numerous referrences to Flax and its effect in dogs. 
http://www.vetinfo.com/flax-seed-oil-dogs.html is one in lay literature.Google Flax and dogs ......

There are a multiplicity of references in the literature but again everyone is free to chose what they wish.

Interestiingly for severral years it was stated that long acting nitrates didn't work in humans since the were deactivated in the liver with the first pass.
This seemed to fly in the face of empirical observation.Peoplle felt better and their BP lowered.
The answer was an active metabolite was resposible for the ttherapeutic effect.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Edward Weiss said:


> Interesting theoretical consideration but the contrary apears well substantiated .
> There are numerous referrences to Flax and its effect in dogs.
> http://www.vetinfo.com/flax-seed-oil-dogs.html is one in lay literature.Google Flax and dogs ......
> 
> There are a multiplicity of references in the literature but again everyone is free to chose what they wish. ...





Dogs need their long-chain 3s to be consumed as such, I believe, based on a ton of research over many years.

_" .... everyone is free to chose what they wish."
_
Absolutely correct.


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

This probably is beyond the needs of forum readers but the article is of interest demontstrating the definite conversion of flax derived precursors..
*Dietary Flaxseed in Dogs Results in Differential Transport and Metabolism of (n-3) Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids1,2*


<LI class=contributor id=contrib-1>John E. Bauer3, <LI class=contributor id=contrib-2>Brent L. Dunbar, and
Karen E. Bigley


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Edward Weiss said:


> This probably is beyond the needs of forum readers but the article is of interest demontstrating the definite conversion of flax derived precursors..
> *Dietary Flaxseed in Dogs Results in Differential Transport and Metabolism of (n-3) Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids1,2*
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I've read that, I think in the 90s.

You probably see exactly what I saw and commented on in findings stating almost the opposite. Some of the big funding (such as funding from http://www.enreco.com/ ) behind the research makes it suspect, for me, and I had to find it replicated by disinterested (as far as I could see) sources.

Just as, as I commented in the top link I provided, the financial interest behind some of the fish oil research I quoted was suspect to me and I looked to at least apparently disinterested funding among Alzheimer research findings to back it up.



ETA

Most important: you found what your individual dog needed.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

You probably find it as frustrating as I do to be always questioning the backers behind "research findings."

For me, it started in earnest many years ago when I started to look up the bios of some of the authors of big anti-raw published scare research and found them to be on boards of and even officers of Hills/Science Diet.

I became a tad cynical. :lol: 

Now "who is telling me this" is checked almost before I read what they are saying.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I'm looking into carrying Nordic Naturals since the health food stores around here only carry the human variety, not the pet variety.


What is the difference between human and pet variety? To me fish oil is just that. I just buy bulk human grade capsules from Costco and both my dogs do great on that. I do give whole sardines and the odd freezer burnt tilapia filet a couple times a month too. 

I did try the Grizzly oil with the pump and it was easy to use and again the dogs did great on it, though quite a bit more expensive than the bulk capsules at Costco. 

You can always get bulk oil and transfer it into your own pump bottles too if you are really industrious.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> What is the difference between human and pet variety? To me fish oil is just that. I just buy bulk human grade capsules from Costco and both my dogs do great on that. I do give whole sardines and the odd freezer burnt tilapia filet a couple times a month too.
> 
> I did try the Grizzly oil with the pump and it was easy to use and again the dogs did great on it, though quite a bit more expensive than the bulk capsules at Costco.
> 
> You can always get bulk oil and transfer it into your own pump bottles too if you are really industrious.


I am very careful which kind of oil I use because oil that has been oxidized can actually be carcinogenic. This is what impressed me about how Nordic Naturals handles their product from fish to finished oil to protect it as much as possible. The difference in the human Nordic Naturals vs the pet variety is the pet kind does not contain flavoring agents or rosemary oil, which anecdotally has had some reports of lowering the seizure threshold. I do not believe there has been enough studies in dogs on the effects, so I prefer to stick with just the plain fish oil. I don't recommend buying in bulk unless you have a big kennel of dogs to minimize exposing the oil to air. As fresh as possible is best.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Edward Weiss said:


> Interesting theoretical consideration but the contrary apears well substantiated .
> There are numerous referrences to Flax and its effect in dogs.
> http://www.vetinfo.com/flax-seed-oil-dogs.html is one in lay literature.Google Flax and dogs ......
> 
> ...


I've personally asked both the bigwigs in veterinary clinical nutrition and veterinary holistic medicine and pretty much everyone says flax oil in dogs is nearly worthless. I can find you some good sources later tonight if you like. Ground flax seed can be used as a fiber source, but that's about it. I'd stick to the high quality fish oil because that's where the research has shown it to work best in dogs.


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## Kristin Countryman (Oct 13, 2010)

Love the Grizzly Salmon Oil in the 64oz bottle. divided amongst the masses its the cheapest and easiest way to give to my crew of 7. I also refrigerate after opening, and have not had trouble with it going rancid, but I tend to go through it pretty quickly. :smile:


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## Laura Briggs (Jan 11, 2011)

I much prefer to use a liquid oil than a capsule since neither of my GSDs will eat the capsules. I could prick the capsules and drain them but I'm lazy. I use the Nordic Naturals liquid sardines-anchovies oil; like everyone else here, I keep the bottle stored in the fridge. I just ordered a bottle of the sardines-anchovies oil from Iceland Pure since I thought the pump would be easier to use. Either way, cap or pump, if the oil is very oxygen sensitive, you've got problems.


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## Edward Weiss (Sep 19, 2011)

"flax oil in dogs is nearly worthless. I can find you some good sources"

Sources are always good,(not industry based)particularly in reference to its use in canine skin conditions.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

off topic, poll wise, but i'm curious ...
is the primary reason that you are using fish oil supplements because it is more convenient than adding fish to your raw diets ?

the reason i ask is because i have also used fish oil (caps, not liquid) from the start because of all the refs i read that it was an "essential" supplement. 

with my current dog i ran out of caps and forgot to reorder.....long story short i just forgot about reordering (my bad)
- after maybe 6-8 months it dawned on me that he hadn't been getting any, so i just started adding fish while i checked around for online sources....couple times a week...wasn't too picky about what kind of fish i added, and it was either whole small ones or pieces of bigger ones ... lotta salmon ... obviously being in Japan we have fish available , and a fish market that is close by... 90% raw before we ate it, but sometimes leftovers, cooked at home and eaten by us (we don't use much oil or seasonings with fish)
- i also got lazy and didn't research which fish was better because that involves a lot of translation from Japanese fish names to english and latin, etc
- all the time i really never noticed much difference in the dog ... seemed like overall health was the same

so my questions are :
1. is the oil supp method mostly for convenience ? 
2. do any of you just feed fish rather than add fish oil and if so what fish has the best "oil" ?
- i also have NO idea how i would measure the portions to know how much oil is there, and of course i know some fish (like bonita) are much more oily than other.
- i am very lazy that way too ... variety and mixing it up has always been my rule and the dog i have now has never changed weight by more than a kilo or two in that last year and a half, and seems to have good muscle tone, etc 
- since i may be boarding a dog for a few months who is "not" so healthy, i think i need to get off my lazy butt (Tx Connie !)

thanks in advance from a very lazy raw feeder !!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Fish is something I do use for variety. There are sustainability as well as cost issues that make fish oil from certain fish easier and cheaper to give on a daily basis, but I definitely use fish as a variety protein source.



One caveat is never to give raw salmonids from west of the Cascades. In fact, I no longer give raw salmonids from the Pacific Northwest, period, now that salmon poisoning has crept out of that specific area. 

Brief recap: It's not a human illness; it's often a result of the dog along on a fishing trip and getting into the scraps; it's not hard to treat but very often undiagnosed, in which case it's usually fatal. Cooking removes the danger. And of course, canned fish is very cooked.




(I know we've discussed this many times here, but I always add it again for new folks. There's a pretty innocuous parasite [Nanophyetus salmincola] that can infect fish that go upstream to breed. That parasite can also be infected, though, with Neorickettsia helminthoeca. That's the problem. Last time I read up, only dogs were known to be affected.)


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## Laura Briggs (Jan 11, 2011)

What Connie said.

I feed whole Atlantic herring and whole Canadian mackerel. I pay around $1.25 per pound if I buy over ten pounds of fish at a time. My supplier also freezes it for me according to the US FDA food code 3-402.11 (parasite destruction by freezing). There is some debate (eg. like this study and there are others) that the n-3 fatty acids are better absorbed from whole fish consumption than fish oil supplementation. Don't discount the fun factor of watching your dogs eating a whole frozen fish.

My question is this- does anyone know of an alternative if vitamin E derived from soy gives your GSD pup the runs?
*
*


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## Kristin Countryman (Oct 13, 2010)

Rick I may be mistaken but I was under the impression that raw salmon was not a good idea to feed dogs...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Laura Briggs said:


> My question is this- does anyone know of an alternative if vitamin E derived from soy gives your GSD pup the runs?


Lots of 'em. Nature's Life, GNC, and many others make soy-free E. 

It's enough in demand that Google-searching for "soy-free vitamin E" will yield many returns.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristin Countryman said:


> Rick I may be mistaken but I was under the impression that raw salmon was not a good idea to feed dogs...


See post #50 just under Rick's.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Edward Weiss said:


> "flax oil in dogs is nearly worthless. I can find you some good sources"
> 
> Sources are always good,(not industry based)particularly in reference to its use in canine skin conditions.


You've got access to JAVMA, right? There was a great recent review article of n-3s in pets that I think you'd find helpful.


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## Kristin Countryman (Oct 13, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> See post #50 just under Rick's.


Opps! Thanks


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