# The Honest Kitchen



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Moved from Urban Wolf thread:



Kat Hunsecker said:


> How many feedings are in one 3 LB or 7 LB box? I think it said 1 1/8 cup dry product for a 51- 70 LB dog.
> Or roughly how many cups are in a box?



Here are their Frequently Asked Questions:

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/learn/frequently-asked-questions/

Included are:

_How do I measure out 1 cup of food and how much fresh food will this make?_

and

_How long will a box last?_


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Geoff mentioned (about THK, on another thread):_

"THK for me is something I would only feed when I am traveling. Though my dogs don't really do that well on it they have very loose stools. I've tried a few of the different varieties of THK too so it isn't just one flavour. It is billed as being a complete meal in a box just add h2o. "_

Yes. My dogs are all used to plain old raw rather than THK with add-ins. Straight THK gives them loose stools, too. I would have to acclimate them to it.

But really, I don't use THK that way. I mentioned elsewhere that I use it for travel .... but I still add RMBs. It just makes it a lot easier on a car trip. And when I use it at home, I use it as a source of balanced variety, mixing it thinner than usual and pouring some over the raw meal every now and then, like when I think I've been relying too heavily on chicken and want to easily add a balanced beef or fish "side dish."

Of course, it is balanced as is (except Preference), but I don't know anyone who uses it as is, and even THK says "most dogs" will do better with add-ins as directed.

All JMO!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Yes. My dogs are all used to plain old raw rather than THK with add-ins. Straight THK gives them loose stools, too. I would have to acclimate them to it.


For me the price difference between THK and my regular supply of RAW negates any acclimatizing to THK. I guess it is ok if you are rich and I'm far from that. . (well rich in friends) :wink: But they won't pay for THK for my dogs! 

I usually can keep depending on the outside temperature enough of my regular RAW in a cooler for 2 days then I would use THK or alternatively NRG. Most of my trips for trialing or training never really are more than 3 days and if I know I have access to a fridge I can bring more of my regular RAW. 

Being performance sport dogs I am pretty anal about changing their diet and will even bring h2o from home as to not upset their performance balance. It's more about keeping their diet routine as close as possible to what it is at home. Really in competition they need every advantage that they can have and getting dehydrated from loose stools or picking up a bug from some well water negates why we went to the trial in the first place .. which is to do well. Even attending seminars the dogs will learn better if they are 100% healthy from a nutritional stand point.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> For me the price difference between THK and my regular supply of RAW negates any acclimatizing to THK.


Yeah, it would be more than I would be able to pay too. But for travel (with mainly RMBs) and a once-or-occasionally-twice-a-week "side dish" is OK. It sure is convenient (and high quality) .... and you sure do pay for that. :lol:


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> It sure is convenient (and high quality) .... and you sure do pay for that. :lol:


You sure do pay for it. To me alot of k9 nutritional products are based on marketing. Just because a product is expensive, high quality and convenient doesn't mean it is a good value. I have found many grocery store bought meats (sic_)"human grade"_ are cheaper than the equivalent dog foods in a bag. Then you have all the prepackaged RAW fresh, frozen, dehydrated etc. It is all hyped beyond belief and the consumer laps it up like a kitten drinking milk from a saucer. Not saying that any of these foods are bad but people need to educate themselves and understand what their animals are getting for what their paying. 

There is a RAW k9 food company here that sells turkey necks as one of their side dishes. Good quality stuff for sure but I went into the local chinese grocery and found the exact same things turkey necks for $1.10/lb guess how much that the k9 food place was selling 5lbs for? $22!!!!! Almost $4.70 a lb!!!!! Is it any better? It's all perception. #-o 

I can feed 2 active sport Malinois for under $35/month and they are fed well.


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

I just talked to them about "preference". They recomend you mix it with muscle meat according to the directions and every 3rd day to substitute rmb for the muscle meat.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I would do it more evenly, using a third RMB and two-thirds MM every day, because the calcium in the RMBs will change the poops (more solid). But if it works out the other way, fine.

Do you have a dog with a meat allergy? That's why you want to use Preference?


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## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

I have one that has been fine on raw but has problems with all other foods except diamond lamb and rice. The other can eat anything. We had a bit of a thaw here and after looking in the backyard and seeing all the crap out there I want to go back to raw. I'm just looking for something a bit easier to mix.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

jamie lind said:


> I have one that has been fine on raw but has problems with all other foods except diamond lamb and rice. The other can eat anything. We had a bit of a thaw here and after looking in the backyard and seeing all the crap out there I want to go back to raw. I'm just looking for something a bit easier to mix.


And you don't want to do one of the complete THK formulas with add-ins of RMBs? I ask this because Preference is even spendier than the complete THKs, when you figure that there is no meat in it.

If the RMBs are good balanced ones, the THK can be cut down. Sounds like you're looking to cut down on poop size and amount.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

I used to feed a lot of HK, it was my stepping stone into raw while I got comfortable with the idea, it was my back up and occasional supplemental meal, and it was what my dogs ate while traveling. 

However I have found that my dogs shit like it's going out of style when on HK, and a lot of the stuff that comes out is mostly what I saw in their bowl. Considering this stuff costs me about $100 per box with taxes here, I'm not thrilled about that, and really question how much of the nutrition is actually absorbed. 

Last time I went away I bought some anyways and my dogs actually refused to eat it after being fed exclusively raw for a while without seeing this stuff. They ended up eating kibble which I had in the truck which is what I use for their treats. From now on my travel food is kibble (Orijen, Evo, Go). 

Since I had a couple unused boxes left I've been feeding this stuff to my litter of pups mixed in with their ground raw and sure enough their poop output went through the roof and sure enough was all speckled with colours of HK. I don't even want to feed it to them any more, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the rest of this stuff, find some one who feeds it and try to get rid of it. 

What I do now for my veggie content (which I want my dogs to have) I bought a juicer for myself (loving it!) and the dogs get the left over pulp and love it and I don't see it coming out the other end like I did with HK.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"However I have found that my dogs shit like it's going out of style when on HK, and a lot of the stuff that comes out is mostly what I saw in their bowl."_ 

Yes, I rehydrate it much longer than they say, even the night before.

And yes, there's more poop than there is on straight raw.

Totally agree.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> What I do now for my veggie content (which I want my dogs to have) I bought a juicer for myself (loving it!) and the dogs get the left over pulp and love it and I don't see it coming out the other end like I did with HK.


Two people in our club do this! First one did, and he talked about it so much that now a second one does.

They both mention "leaving the pulp juicier" than they would to just throw it away (I don't know how juicers work, and I might not have understood 100%), and both use almost all vegetables (as opposed to almost all fruit) for their dogs' portions. (Of course, no onions or grapes.)

I'm pretty intrigued.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Two people in our club do this! First one did, and he talked about it so much that now a second one does.
> 
> They both mention "leaving the pulp juicier" than they would to just throw it away, and both use almost all vegetables (as opposed to almost all fruit) for their dogs' portions. (Of course, no onions or grapes.)
> 
> I'm pretty intrigued.


I'm mostly juicing veggies... beets, spinach (actually makes very interesting juice with a hint of coffee like flavour), carrots, celery stalks, cucumbers, with some apple, pear, mellon... going to try some blueberries today


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> I'm mostly juicing veggies... beets, spinach (actually makes very interesting juice with a hint of coffee like flavour), carrots, celery stalks, cucumbers, with some apple, pear, mellon... going to try some blueberries today


Those are almost all foods that I would give my dogs after breaking down cell walls either by freezing or processing.

Blueberries in particular .... low sugar, high phytonutrient/anthocyanin content.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> I used to feed a lot of HK, it was my stepping stone into raw while I got comfortable with the idea, it was my back up and occasional supplemental meal, and it was what my dogs ate while traveling.
> 
> However I have found that my dogs shit like it's going out of style when on HK, and a lot of the stuff that comes out is mostly what I saw in their bowl. Considering this stuff costs me about $100 per box with taxes here, I'm not thrilled about that, and really question how much of the nutrition is actually absorbed.
> 
> ...


 
If you've not gotten rid of it yet, I'll give it a try. I'll pay the shipping for it if you just want to get rid of it. Whats the amount or how is it sold (lbs/kg)? PM me w/ details if you're still looking to pass it off.

I like Urban Wolf cuz its got all the veggies I'd feed if I had the time to do so (I've not yet set up my juicer to get the pulp from it), and the dogs look awesome on it. I don't truly believe in feeding any food solely unless the dog's condition warranted it, and so I don't. Even the Urban Wolf is mixed w/ Abady and RMB and/or muscle meats. Stool is perfect and coats are glossy. Thats on a good day when I actually have time. I make adjustments to the ratios based on work schedule, amount of exercise or conditioning, weight, and amount and quality of stool. I am also a big believer in fasting every so often. I've not seen any issues thus far.


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

I LOVE THK. I don't use it as directed though. Just like most everyone here, I make a super dilute version and pour the 'gravy' over my RMBs or whatever else they are having. I just like adding some 'extra'


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Interesting. My dog does not do well on kibble (cow patty craps), and does very well on raw.

I have fed THK when travelling (and working the dog) with success and am glad for the product. I have only used Embark.

These are the issues I have found with it....

If I feed as much as she needs to maintain weight, she will get softer stools. She is fine if I feed smaller amounts. If it is just a couple weeks, I don't really mind if she looses some weight for a bit, I put up with it for the convenience. I should really just feed an extra meal of it a day, that would likely work.

It does indeed produce more stool than raw!

It is expensive!

The good:

It is easy to travel with

My dog transitions no problem to it

My dog's energy for working is normal on it (think the longest I have fed it is two week).

Works well in the backcountry, easy for the dog to carry.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Do you use the NRG as an alternative Jenn to THK still? I think I am going back to NRG next time I need to buy some dehydrated RAW.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

We used THK extensively as our step into RAW.

We would give both dogs the "Embark" formula in morning and at night. When we eventually made the switch to RAW, although we had a great source of meat and bones, there was no veggies/fruit in their diet. Therefore we ended up getting THK "Preference" formula. Did this for about a year. While their stools were smaller than they were when on kibble, they were still relatively large. As Marta mentioned, what I could see in their stools looked pretty similar to what they were ingesting. So we wondered just how much of the Preference they were actually taking in.

We moved and found a new source of meat, which fortunately has 6 fruits and veggies mixed in at a ratio that I'm comfortable with. Not only is it easier, as there is no lee time for soaking, but their poops are small and crumbly.

Since we are not far from the US border and train in Michigan frequently, bringing meat across the border is out of the question. We always have a box of THK Embark on hand for when we do overnighters. Again, they have huge poops and often multiple poops, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the product. It's sure as hell better than kibble, IMO.


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## Rachel M. Reams (Nov 29, 2012)

I fed raw to my (now departed) GSD mix, along with any number of high-quality kibble and canned foods. He basically got a mix of everything.

I started my Rhodesian Ridgeback as a puppy with THK, but didn't like how what came out the back end strongly resembled what went in the front end, so moved him over to prey-model raw, and now both dogs are fed exclusively on PMR. They get bites of whatever I'm eating (within reason) but otherwise I don't worry about plants or vegetable pulp. When I think of it (which isn't regularly) I squirt a caplet of fish oil and vitamin e over their food, or I throw in a teaspoon of Solid Gold Seameal, but I am not at all regular about supplements.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Do you use the NRG as an alternative Jenn to THK still? I think I am going back to NRG next time I need to buy some dehydrated RAW.


My client dog eats NRG and I swear it all runs right through her--some of which is undigested. She was best on Vitality Buffalo. Her mom sent Optima this time and its back tons of stool and lower weight.


T


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Here's the breakdown for Optimum Buffalo. Naked Oats does not digest. Neither does the carrots. I always wonder just how much meat makes up the protein when Naked Oats has such a high protein content. The meat in most of the NRG food is cooked. Here its cooked and raw--what percentage? 

Cooked and raw dehydrated Free Range buffalo muscle meat, squash, carrots, naked oats, wheat germ, eggs, buffalo liver, grapefruit, pumpkin, broccoli, salmon fillet, flax seed, cranberries, blueberries, apples, limes, papaya, parsley, garlic, goat milk yogurt, kelp, cider vinegar, eggshell, coconut oil, cod liver oil.
​All NRG Diets are formulated to meet AAFCO standards for all life stages.
*Guaranteed Analysis*

Kcal/cup 600Protein 26%Fat 18%Fiber 3.5%Calcium 0.95%Phosphorus 0.85%Sodium 0.30%Potassium 0.84%Sulphur 0.31%Magnesium 0.2%Copper 3mg/kgIron 85mg/kgZinc 61 mg/kgManganese 52mg/kg7,516 IU Beta Carotene/kg

Cooked and raw dehydrated Free Range buffalo muscle meat, squash, carrots, naked oats, wheat germ, eggs, buffalo liver, grapefruit, pumpkin, broccoli, salmon fillet, flax seed, cranberries, blueberries, apples, limes, papaya, parsley, garlic, goat milk yogurt, kelp, cider vinegar, eggshell, coconut oil, cod liver oil.
​All NRG Diets are formulated to meet AAFCO standards for all life stages.
*Guaranteed Analysis*

Kcal/cup 600Protein 26%Fat 18%Fiber 3.5%Calcium 0.95%Phosphorus 0.85%Sodium 0.30%Potassium 0.84%Sulphur 0.31%Magnesium 0.2%Copper 3mg/kgIron 85mg/kgZinc 61 mg/kgManganese 52mg/kg7,516 IU Beta Carotene/kg
Cooked and raw dehydrated Free Range buffalo muscle meat, squash, carrots, naked oats, wheat germ, eggs, buffalo liver, grapefruit, pumpkin, broccoli, salmon fillet, flax seed, cranberries, blueberries, apples, limes, papaya, parsley, garlic, goat milk yogurt, kelp, cider vinegar, eggshell, coconut oil, cod liver oil.
​All NRG Diets are formulated to meet AAFCO standards for all life stages.
*Guaranteed Analysis*

Kcal/cup 600Protein 26%Fat 18%Fiber 3.5%Calcium 0.95%Phosphorus 0.85%Sodium 0.30%Potassium 0.84%Sulphur 0.31%Magnesium 0.2%Copper 3mg/kgIron 85mg/kgZinc 61 mg/kgManganese 52mg/kg7,516 IU Beta Carotene/kg
Cooked and raw dehydrated Free Range buffalo muscle meat, squash, carrots, naked oats, wheat germ, eggs, buffalo liver, grapefruit, pumpkin, broccoli, salmon fillet, flax seed, cranberries, blueberries, apples, limes, papaya, parsley, garlic, goat milk yogurt, kelp, cider vinegar, eggshell, coconut oil, cod liver oil.
​All NRG Diets are formulated to meet AAFCO standards for all life stages.
*Guaranteed Analysis*

Kcal/cup 600Protein 26%Fat 18%Fiber 3.5%Calcium 0.95%Phosphorus 0.85%Sodium 0.30%Potassium 0.84%Sulphur 0.31%Magnesium 0.2%Copper 3mg/kgIron 85mg/kgZinc 61 mg/kgManganese 52mg/kg7,516 IU Beta Carotene/kg
http://www.nrgdogproducts.com/proddetail.php?prod=nrgoptbuffalo13.2#&cat=8
Cooked and raw dehydrated Free Range buffalo muscle meat, squash, carrots, naked oats, wheat germ, eggs, buffalo liver, grapefruit, pumpkin, broccoli, salmon fillet, flax seed, cranberries, blueberries, apples, limes, papaya, parsley, garlic, goat milk yogurt, kelp, cider vinegar, eggshell, coconut oil, cod liver oil.
​All NRG Diets are formulated to meet AAFCO standards for all life stages.
*Guaranteed Analysis*

Kcal/cup 600Protein 26%Fat 18%Fiber 3.5%Calcium 0.95%Phosphorus 0.85%Sodium 0.30%Potassium 0.84%Sulphur 0.31%Magnesium 0.2%Copper 3mg/kgIron 85mg/kgZinc 61 mg/kgManganese 52mg/kg7,516 IU Beta Carotene/kg
Cooked and raw dehydrated Free Range buffalo muscle meat, squash, carrots, naked oats, wheat germ, eggs, buffalo liver, grapefruit, pumpkin, broccoli, salmon fillet, flax seed, cranberries, blueberries, apples, limes, papaya, parsley, garlic, goat milk yogurt, kelp, cider vinegar, eggshell, coconut oil, cod liver oil.
​All NRG Diets are formulated to meet AAFCO standards for all life stages.
*Guaranteed Analysis*

Kcal/cup 600Protein 26%Fat 18%Fiber 3.5%Calcium 0.95%Phosphorus 0.85%Sodium 0.30%Potassium 0.84%Sulphur 0.31%Magnesium 0.2%Copper 3mg/kgIron 85mg/kgZinc 61 mg/kgManganese 52mg/kg7,516 IU Beta Carotene/kg


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> My client dog eats NRG and I swear it all runs right through her--some of which is undigested. She was best on Vitality Buffalo. Her mom sent Optima this time and its back tons of stool and lower weight.


It seems to be a running thing with these dehydrated formulas. Undigested food!!! There was another dehydrated product that is new I saw at my local pet food store it is made in the USA and I am willing to try it. You are right the NRG meat is precooked and to me that somewhat negates feeding RAW in the first place. I'll take a mental note on that other new dehydrated product. 

But the more I read about others troubles with dehydrated RAW I wonder if it is worth it to buy a dehydrator and do my own mix? A friend of mine bought a small dehydrator at Cabela's and he does his own liver and heart treats. They are not the expensive.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> It seems to be a running thing with these dehydrated formulas. Undigested food!!! There was another dehydrated product that is new I saw at my local pet food store it is made in the USA and I am willing to try it. You are right the NRG meat is precooked and to me that somewhat negates feeding RAW in the first place. I'll take a mental note on that other new dehydrated product.
> 
> But the more I read about others troubles with dehydrated RAW I wonder if it is worth it to buy a dehydrator and do my own mix? A friend of mine bought a small dehydrator at Cabela's and he does his own liver and heart treats. They are not the expensive.


Geoff,

I think its a huge rip off. I think a grinder, freezer and dehydrator is the better way to go. The problem I have with NRG is the uncooked veggies and whole naked oats--all of which is undigested. The egg shell isn't ground. One of my pups was weaned to this stuff and it took me months to turn the stool eating around and she was always starving. It was like she had deprivation syndrome. I like a homemade diet with some raw.

I'm threatening to boil some of the dehydrated stuff and see what happens in terms of digestion. Also thought about pulverizing it for the undigested vegetables--whole lot of trouble for what it costs. It also doesn't double/triple in amount either. I like the ingredient quality and sourcing idea but for the cost, I can feed them much cheaper with human grade from the grocery store.

T


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I totally agree Terrasita. The more I see the 'rip off' the more ways I see to do it better for me (cheaper) and better for my dogs (digestable). Though I do wonder if it is all dehydration that gives the loose stools.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> I totally agree Terrasita. The more I see the 'rip off' the more ways I see to do it better for me (cheaper) and better for my dogs (digestable). Though I do wonder if it is all dehydration that gives the loose stools.


Geoff,

The stool looks the same as what was in the bowl and the same amount, if not more. I tried googling "naked oats" and didn't find out much other than its fed to horses. It looks and is as hard as uncooked brown rice.

T


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Even for horses, oats are often crimped (lightly crushed) to aid digestibility. I have fed boiled whole oats to my dogs - I see the husks in their poop, but otherwise they seem to digest them without problems.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> Even for horses, oats are often crimped (lightly crushed) to aid digestibility. I have fed boiled whole oats to my dogs - I see the husks in their poop, but otherwise they seem to digest them without problems.


Naked oats are supposed to not have husks. I'm going to boil some and see what happens. Its been cold and rainy so not much stock training this weekend.

T


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

My Corgi can only eat THK with or without muscle meats without getting diarrhea or vomiting. It's the only thing that works for his IBD. Granted, I've only fed the grain free varieties.

Neither of mine ever got loose stools from THK. In fact it had the opposite effect. It's always helped create firm stools.

Danni only gets 1/2-1 cup of THK so I can mix her diatomaceous earth in it and it acts as her veggies too.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> I totally agree Terrasita. The more I see the 'rip off' the more ways I see to do it better for me (cheaper) and better for my dogs (digestable). Though I do wonder if it is all dehydration that gives the loose stools.



Hmmm I wonder if this is why my dogs were having a rough time with loose stools with my last batch of THK. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/2013/02/21/a-note-from-our-president/


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I just got that email, Geoff. I don't feed those varieties, though.


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## Laura Briggs (Jan 11, 2011)

I use dehydrated food when we're travelling. THK runs through both of my GSDs but both do really well on K9 Natural and Smack (Manitoba). I tend to use Smack because it's less expensive.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Hmmm I wonder if this is why my dogs were having a rough time with loose stools with my last batch of THK. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/2013/02/21/a-note-from-our-president/


So none of them are immune? Further indication is that the best kitchen is your own.

T


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