# Retrieve



## Lauren Hogge (Aug 3, 2011)

Could someone direct me to a resource (or give advice) on teaching a retrieve with a reward? 

I have never taught a retrieve before. Right now I have been trying to build motivation for the dumb bell and don't feel it is really improving. He loves the ball and tug, doesn't like to bring it back. The previous dogs I have had (GSD) have been natural retrievers. Hans (Doberman) loves to go get it, run around with it, and tease me with it. 

He loves to swim and I throw a toy in the water for him every day, so I have been trying to get him to associate the dumb bell with something he loves (water) and throwing that instead of the ball. He will always go get it, never brings it back to me...I know this is a separate problem. However, on the ground, his motivation is much less, will get it a few times but loses interest. 

Help? [-o<


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

best suggestion :
hire a trainer 
next best :
teach him to sit in front of you and HOLD something you offer him, when you can take one or two steps back and he will bring it to you without dropping it or taking off, and will let you take it out of his mouth, then maybe you can start thinking about tossing it (anything) a few feet away
- if you can't teach that - revert to the best suggestion


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## Jehane Michael Le Grange (Feb 24, 2009)

There are various ways of teachng the retrieve using a reward system, alot of dogs are not comfortable with the feel of the wooden dumbell, so allowing him to carry it abit while on lead walking around might get him abit more comfortable with it at first.

I would then teach him the retrieve of the dumbell as an "exchange exercise". simply, you bring me the dumbell and hold it until i take it and then you will get your ball/toy. 

I usually do this with the dog sitting infront of me (as if he has just been recalled. You can also be sitting on a chair so you are more at his level, it makes it easier to handle) and give him the dumbell to hold and keep him nice and calm with it in his mouth. when he is calm and holding it without chewing etc, you "mark" that behaviour and reward him with the toy or food, etc. you have got to do this for a little while at first so that he understands he actually has to hold the dumbell calmly before he gets his reward. Once he is comfortable doing that, you can move to actually fetching the dumbell and presenting/holding it before getting his reward. Instead of throwing it out at first I sort of hold it to the side away from him, while he is sitting in front of me still. so instead of me now giving it to him to hold, as previously done, he has to move abit to actually take it from me and present it to me calmly, before then getting his reward. And then when he is doing that, you can progress to throwing it to the side or dropping it for him to pick up off the ground, present to you and then be rewarded. Once thats in place the distance just increases and is built up into a more formal retrieve exercise. 

The big thing with this is getting the dog to understand he needs to present the dumbell to you in order to get his reward and the quicker he presents it, the quicker the reward comes. The dog must however only be rewarded for a calm presentation in the correct position. 

This might sound time consuming and abit complex and I probably have not explained it in the best terms possible but it does work quite nicely once the dog "clicks" what he has to do to get the reward. 

There are of course far simpler ways of teaching the retrieve esp if you have a dog thats a natural retriever.

Its just my way of doing it, I am always open to any constructive comments :smile:


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Did you start with a hold Lauren?


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## Lauren Hogge (Aug 3, 2011)

rick smith said:


> best suggestion :
> hire a trainer
> next best :
> teach him to sit in front of you and HOLD something you offer him, when you can take one or two steps back and he will bring it to you without dropping it or taking off, and will let you take it out of his mouth, then maybe you can start thinking about tossing it (anything) a few feet away
> - if you can't teach that - revert to the best suggestion


Thank you for the suggestions, Rick. 

I have a trainer and have been following their method. However, I am having a hard time building a drive for it and it seems the other dogs have a natural drive. They have instructed me to treat it like a tug and get him to really want it, then throw it...but he doesn't like holding it very hard and tugging. He will go get it and carry it around, though.


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

play the game with 2 toys - 2 hoses. Build up drive for bringing back. then throw the other. work on this separately from working on holding dumbbell.

also the video link posted here before on this thread
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f9/how-would-you-start-retrieve-20996/

some good resources are DVDs such as Advanced OB by Dildei. ALso OB without Conflict by Ivan Balabanov

available at caninetrainingsystems.com

also the book Advanced Schutzhund by by Karen Duet with Ivan Balabanov
and Schutzhund OB Training in Drive

look up "back chaining" as a method.(working backwards with front finish first).


D


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

also, you can wrap some carpet or something soft around the wooden dumbbell middle. get him bringing back regular toys before using dumbbell... 

For pond work, I use 2 toys. throw one. as he's coming back, show him the other. He always comes back for the 2nd toy and drops the 1st one as I present the 2nd one to throw.

Also, run from the dog to get him to "chase" you w/ the toy. just my guess, but your dog probably doesn't want to bring it back to you because he loses his toy every time. 

for holding training, I use hotdogs as reward. but have to build up his drive to want to hold onto his toy because my dog almost has more food drive than toy drive right now and is too ready to spit out the toy for the food! So I've worked on getting him to follow me actively, stepping back myself. for him to hold the dumbbell for a few seconds. timing is everything. I was having trouble marking the hold and was marking closer to the out... am fixing that.
D


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

also I use the opposition reflex by pushing on the dumbbell back towards the dog. but first just got dog used to me tapping the dumbbell lightly. the books and videos I listed show this.

we also used the decoy to present the dumbbell to my dog the first time we worked on retrieve.


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## Lauren Hogge (Aug 3, 2011)

Jehane Michael Le Grange said:


> There are various ways of teachng the retrieve using a reward system, alot of dogs are not comfortable with the feel of the wooden dumbell, so allowing him to carry it abit while on lead walking around might get him abit more comfortable with it at first.
> 
> I would then teach him the retrieve of the dumbell as an "exchange exercise". simply, you bring me the dumbell and hold it until i take it and then you will get your ball/toy.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input, this makes sense. Does this video in the thread that Donna suggested show how you teach the "hold"? http://www.athosworkingdogs.com/isaclick.wmv



Steve Strom said:


> Did you start with a hold Lauren?


I did not start with a hold. 



Donna DeYoung said:


> play the game with 2 toys - 2 hoses. Build up drive for bringing back. then throw the other. work on this separately from working on holding dumbbell.
> 
> also the video link posted here before on this thread
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f9/how-would-you-start-retrieve-20996/
> ...


Thank you for the advice and links to resources. I see how this needs to be treated as different exercises. One the "hold" the other building drive to bring back the object.


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## Lauren Hogge (Aug 3, 2011)

Donna DeYoung said:


> also, you can wrap some carpet or something soft around the wooden dumbbell middle. get him bringing back regular toys before using dumbbell...
> 
> For pond work, I use 2 toys. throw one. as he's coming back, show him the other. He always comes back for the 2nd toy and drops the 1st one as I present the 2nd one to throw.
> 
> ...


Thanks again, Donna. Yes, I think you are right on with why he doesn't bring it back, I am still kicking myself for messing that one up. 

Hans does have a strong food drive, like you said, I will have to pay close attention to timing to reinforce the actual hold and not reward him for dropping it.


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## Jehane Michael Le Grange (Feb 24, 2009)

Lauren Hogge said:


> Thank you for your input, this makes sense. Does this video in the thread that Donna suggested show how you teach the "hold"? http://www.athosworkingdogs.com/isaclick.wmv
> QUOTE]
> 
> This is very very close to the sort of thing I do :razz: Its all about bring the dumbell (or any article or item) back in order to get a reward. So the focus is alll about bringing it back and not the item itself. You can try sit on a chair at first with the dog infront of you, it might be a little easier to be on his/her level.
> ...


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

At the first time she drops the ball, she's working hold. Her steps are probably a good order for you to build motivation with the way she has the dog take it. I think generally back chaining the retrieve begins with placing it in the dogs mouth before coming forward to take it like that, but the order on the clip, I think is a fun way to do it for your dog.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

And I agree with Jehane about making the dumbell too much of a play item. You have to be careful with that. Just because the dog will retrieve a ball all day, the formal retrieve is an obedience. Its different.


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## Lauren Hogge (Aug 3, 2011)

Jehane Michael Le Grange said:


> Lauren Hogge said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your input, this makes sense. Does this video in the thread that Donna suggested show how you teach the "hold"? http://www.athosworkingdogs.com/isaclick.wmv
> ...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Lauren, I would get the Michael Ellis video on the subject. He does a nice job of explaining the calm hold and then back chaining from there as my dog loved to jaw on the retrieve object. Really helped remind him to hold calmly.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I wouldn't teach my dog the retrieve with the object I want him to retrieve. If he is not motivated for it he might start to chew it. I would find something that he like to retrieve and start with that. I sometimes use the old method of tying a string to the object so he you can make a connection with what you want him to do.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I marker train it with food rewards. I find it bypasses the posessiveness/keepaway problems, because the dog learns to do the job in order to get paid, and the faster and better he does it, the faster and better he gets rewarded. Also gets the dog out of the prey drive mindset that might cause him to mouth and play with the retrieve object. Prey drive is for the ball or tug, not formal retrieve...

As for the number of reps, whatever keeps it fun for the dog. Change it up and keep the enthusiasm high. Less is better, I think, and if the dog does it perfectly it's best to stop right there and reward big.


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## Lauren Hogge (Aug 3, 2011)

Jehane Michael Le Grange said:


> Lauren Hogge said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your input, this makes sense. Does this video in the thread that Donna suggested show how you teach the "hold"? http://www.athosworkingdogs.com/isaclick.wmv
> ...


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

sounds like you're starting to get it. be careful about playing too much fetch. always quit when the drive is high. or quit fetch while he's in high drive, and switch to holding, front sits, whatever.

I had my dog sitting in front of me and taking the dumbbell. also work on strong front finish, pushing into me, for treat . And threw in the "game" of using a tug for reward. to get dog driving. The compulsive exercise helped teach the dog the dumbbell wasn't "his", it was mine to put in his mouth. And it helped stop him from taking it (or toy) without command. But I had to be careful and quit compulsion (tapping him under jaw for dropping) after 1 session because it lowered his drive for the dumbbell. It got his attention on me (and he almost came up the leash!) but he told me it was enough. So we immed did something else.

I also taught him to catch food treats so I could drop them from my mouth.

yes, switch it up as you see it. I did 3 sessions in one day. Then gave it a break. Saw a good improvement. Also took away anything he could play with in the house (except a bone that keeps him settled at night) so he would really look forward to grabbing the dumbbell from me.

and then plan on lots of time lots of time...

D


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