# NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News



## admin (Mar 27, 2006)

<table border=0 width= valign=top cellpadding=2 cellspacing=7><tr><td valign=top class=j><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class=lh><a href="http://www.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.policeone.com/K-9/articles/1691140-N-C-s-K9-program-stopped-over-roughness/&cid=0&ei=u_QZSN3rNozkywSEuOSCCQ&usg=AFrqEzdvtTvtu0Y9oBmsH0YA6uaGKILmxA">NC's <b>K9</b> program stopped over roughness</a><br><font size=-1><font color=#6f6f6f>Police News, CA -</font> <nobr>24 minutes ago</nobr></font><br><font size=-1>By Dan Kane RALEIGH, NC — The NC Highway Patrol took its police dogs out of service indefinitely Wednesday, after a hearing exposed rough obedience <b>...</b></font></div></font></td></tr></table>

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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*

Facinating.

I am quite sure that there are many LE dog handlers quite worried about the pendulum now swinging the other way.

Though the consensus seems to be hanging a dog from a porch and kicking it repeatedly is NOT an acceptable training meathod, you can bet that other corrections that would be found acceptable to many (maybe not all) police dog handlers will now be coming into question.

I really hope that this ends up somehow making things better for LE dogs and their handlers....but I have my doubts. 

For those of you in LE K9 programs...will this change anything for you? Do some departments have written procedures for acceptable training meathods, corrections?


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*

Maybe this will be a new beginning for the Hwy Patrol. Get some trainers in there who know what they're doing, write some guidelines about how the dogs are to be treated, and start over.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*

Most LEO aggencies need an overhaul when it comes to K-9's. Many are stuck in old school land or just don't know anything at all. We have officers lining up for K-9 teams simply for the fact that it pays more and that just isn't right. These jobs aren't handed out by experience as they should be but by what your number on a list is, just like the Union. It's not who is better qualified but who got in line first. 

Tragicly LEO's are trained extensively in all other forms of weapons or combat but the dogs are left last if the budget is lucky enough to include dogs at all. I see most times the officers themselves are shelling out time and money of their own for training. 

If I ever breed again, it will be for Police/Military use dogs and this story makes me second guess myself. I have a huge love for productive dogs that fill a need and save human lives. At the same time, I would hate to see my efforts at building a quality lines of dogs, only to be handled in this manner.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*

How many is most, 75%? How did you conduct the survey to determine that most are stuck in "old school land", or just "don't know anything at all". There are some fine programs out there, I dare say have been around longer than you. I've been doing it for 43 years, I'll take the "most" as a personal affront. I stated clearly that wouldn't be permitted in my program, nor in any of the programs with which I'm familiar. Yes, this trainer stepped over the line, don't paint us all (or most as the case may be) with the same brush. I'd be curious to see the statistics on the study you did, to come to that conclusion

DFrost


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## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*

While I haven't seen very many k9 units working their dogs, the few that I have seen have impressed me with their abilities. They were very capable dog trainers/handlers, and one k9 unit where I was friends with the senior officer had anyone who was interested in joining come out to training for a year before being accepted.

_Now the mounted officers I used to work with..._


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*



Michelle Kehoe said:


> Most LEO aggencies need an overhaul when it comes to K-9's. Many are stuck in old school land or just don't know anything at all.


Where do you get your data?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*



David Frost said:


> How many is most, 75%? How did you conduct the survey to determine that most are stuck in "old school land", or just "don't know anything at all". There are some fine programs out there, I dare say have been around longer than you. I've been doing it for 43 years, I'll take the "most" as a personal affront. I stated clearly that wouldn't be permitted in my program, nor in any of the programs with which I'm familiar. Yes, this trainer stepped over the line, don't paint us all (or most as the case may be) with the same brush. I'd be curious to see the statistics on the study you did, to come to that conclusion
> 
> DFrost


Ah, David beat me to it.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*

Not a problem Connie. I'm truly appalled at what was shown in that video. However, the idea that "most" police trainers are like that or just too stupid to do anything else is insulting. I would fire a handler immediately for such actions. I have no doubt the administration in my department would agree. 

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*



David Frost said:


> Not a problem Connie. I'm truly appalled at what was shown in that video. However, the idea that "most" police trainers are like that or just too stupid to do anything else is insulting. I would fire a handler immediately for such actions. I have no doubt the administration in my department would agree.
> 
> DFrost


The PD TD here reacted exactly the way you did, David. If someone suggested to him that "most" police trainers were like that, it would be extremely insulting to him too.

It would be news to me, too, and their training field is where I spend most Sundays.

Budget problems are a whole 'nother issue, and really don't have a lot to do with this.

JMO.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: NC's K9 program stopped over roughness - Police News*



David Frost said:


> Not a problem Connie. I'm truly appalled at what was shown in that video. However, the idea that "most" police trainers are like that or just too stupid to do anything else is insulting. I would fire a handler immediately for such actions. I have no doubt the administration in my department would agree.
> 
> DFrost


I don't believe I pointed fingers at individual trainers but the machine as a whole and how LE aggencies "choose" their K-9 officers. I don't recall once saying officers are not smart enough or tallented enough to handle a dog. I have officers in my family, many friends of mine wear a badge and my ex was a LEO also and he was actually seriously qualified in my opinion to make a excellent K-9 officer. No doubt when he moves on to a department with dogs, he will have to stand in line behind much less qualified officers who no next to nothing about dogs or training. The only reason they will get a dog before him. is because they got in line first, not because they tested higher or have more experience. Then we all stand around shocked, scratching our heads when BS like in this video happens. My gripe is the hiring practices not the officers themselves. The officers can only do as much as they are taught.


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