# Hip injury/ Arthritis



## John-Ashley Hill (Jan 5, 2011)

About 4 months ago I took Renzo to the vet after noticing that he was constistently slow to get up and would "bunny hop" occasionally when making a cut or turn. The vet did X-rays and found mild severe arthritis and slight arthritis in his hips and put him on arthritis medication. Since then I have been very mindful of the trainin we are doing so as not to aggravate his arthritis anymore than is neceassary. Fast forward to a week ago and Renzo was sent on an apprehension and the suspect had approximatlely 30 yds head start and it took Renzo about 100 yds. to catch him. I saw the guy make a couple of cuts and you could see Renzo have a hard time making them also but he did apprehend him. Renzo seemed fine after and was not limping or favoring any leg. Last night Renzo was rewarded at the end of a training track and he snapped at the toy when I threw it and it shot about 15 yds away. Renzo went to run after it and there was a random hole someone dug that was not visible. He cleared it with his front legs but his back legs landed in it and he sort of bottomed out landed on his side and could not get up. He was kicking his feet trying to get up but couldn't. When I made it to him I got him calmed down waited a bit and tried to get him to stand and he could not. 15 minutes later and he was able to stand, 10 minutes later and he could walk but knuckled his the back leg that he landed on, 10 minutes more he could walk and the dragging of the foot was barely noticeable. Took him to the vet this morning and was told it was probably pinched nerve/nerve damage and that the injury was also affected by and intertwined with his arthritis. When the vet place his inured leg in that knuckled position Renzo did not have the albility to correct it but he could immediately correct his other paw. Vet basicallly said it is a wait and see situation but that while he will show some improvement that he probably will not get back to where he was and that with more wear and tear he will get progressivley worse. He recommended doing narc detection only. Anyone had anything like this and how did your dog recover/not recover, were they put out of service or could they be worked on a limited basis( detection, article searches,etc.)


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your dog's misfortune.

I am not a vet. Can you see on the affected limb if the toes nails are a little more worn than on the other foot ?

This test apparently where he can't correct his knuckle I believe can be indicative of a neurological issue, possibly even the dreaded CDRM condition which gsds can be prone to. Maren will chime in I'm sure when she sees this.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The knuckling over sounds more neurological, as that is a test for proprioception (how he knows where his limbs are in space). His prognosis depends on what disease process he has. Disclaimer: I am not saying your dog does or doesn't have any of these, it's just an example. If it's fibrocartilagenous embolism (FCE), it will likely improve, particularly with rehabilitation. If it's intervertebral disc disease, the best choice is likely surgery, but the prognosis can be good if done quickly. If it's degenerative myelopathy or lumbosacral disease, both of these get progressively worse, but can be prolonged with rehab exercises and medication. What arthritis medication is he on? To look for a board certified neurologist, you can look them up by specialty and location at this website:

http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=3


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## John-Ashley Hill (Jan 5, 2011)

He is on rimadyl and has been since the arthritis was detected in an x-ray,he is also on tramadol for the next two weeks.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi,

I would say get him to a good vet chiropractic. Second, the best thinig I've seen for an acute disc injury is injectible dexamethasone and water therapy if you can find it. Shuts down the inflammation must faster. Next, if you can find a facility that does doggie water therapy with the underwater treadmill. They did the test for proprioception and I'm assuming he had deep pain sensation. As far as the hips go, find a vet that knows something about Adequan. A lot of vets want to wait until the dog is crippled or really in pain and don't see the preventive aspects of it or that it can treat as well as retard disease progression. You can do the 8 injection series and then the maintenance. I'd look into a good home made diet and oral glucosamine/MSM/chondroitin supplement along with with Ester C supplements and other anti-inflammatory supplements. There's lots on the internet so do your research. I rehabbed a dog back to full function after a disc injury that left him paralyzed yet with deep pain sensation. No surgery and after the first 6 weeks, the neurologist couldn't tell that there had been an injury even though I thought he still had some residual offness to his gait. Took him to a vet chiropractic who immediately saw what I was talking about with gait analysis and did acupuncture and an adjustment and wallah, along with the lifestyle changes he went back to working livestock. Never a repeat back injury, either. 

I won't do Rimadyl--deadly stuff and one of my puppy homes lost a dog to it recently. I haven't used Tramadol. Talk to your vet about injectible antiinflammatories. I had him on Etogesic for a few weeks. For the rest of his life, I swam him over the summer and made sure I stretched him out with warm ups and cool downs with any work. I also kept crates to a minimum--a gigantic one for the car and an x-pen if I was going to confine him in the house.

Your description of the x-rays say mild, slight, and severe so that's hard to interpret. I imagine its in both hips and they are different in terms of severity. You didn't say how old the dog was or what breed. I don't think anyone can tell you this dog will be able to work rough terrain or be safe for himself or his handler in terms of apprehension because its a couple of months minimum to see if a treatment protocol will help him in terms of his work life and apprehensions.

Terrasita


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## John-Ashley Hill (Jan 5, 2011)

Teresita- i didnt explain the arthritis very well the vet said from the x-rays that he had severe arthritis along his spine and mild-slight arthritis in his hips Also he is an 8 yr. old Mal but is not built like a typical Mal he is very tall and weighed 95 lbs at the vet today


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Great informative post from Terrasita.

I have used tramadol daily in addition to other drugs for the last year on my dog, the maximum dosage and sometimes more. I have reduced him to half the dosage now as he seems to be making progress. It is not an anti inflammatory, it is simply put a pain killer much like an opiate. I have experienced no problems with it at all.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Ohhhh, I understand now. If he can see it on the x-ray, sounds like spondylosis. My gut would say given that and his age, might think about retirement from the apprehension aspect of his life. With the spine, I think you are back to an ortho--neuro consult but with it being severe and given his age again, I don't know that there is anything they can do with it where his work life wouldn't jeopardize the result. I'd still look into the holistic side of things. With what you describe, I'd suspect more than a slight--mild on the hips but with the back involved, hard to say if that's more his problem. You have the acute fall in the hole but if he has severe spondylosis and nerves involved, that could effect his hind end function as well. Unfortunately with dogs I think you have to get into myelegrams and such which is mega expensive---lots of cost/benefits weighing. The trouble is at this point he is very susceptible and high risk for injury.


Terrasita


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

I will only comment on the arthritis. We have several dogs with arthritis from elbow and hip dysplasias and they are all on an injectable called cartrophen which I think is similar to adequan and used in Australia and Canada. They had the initial course and then get monthly to 3 monthly maintenence injections depending on how they respond. Tramadol works well on several but one of them gets very glassy eyed so we use Previcox on her if she needs it. But we find they dont often need it with the supplements and cartrophen.

It does sound like there is potentially neurological damage that needs to be addressed. One of our working whippets had a spinal injury and surgery worked wonders.

Swimming in warm water has certainly benefitted several of my older dogs. I find that to keep them in work they enjoy I have to work really hard to keep them fit and strong enough or they become very susceptible to injury. Hydroptherapy, physioball work and other hind leg push up type work.

Hind ends often become very susceptible with age and really need work to keep them strong better supported.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

A side effect of tramadol is drowsiness and sedation. Some dogs really get drowsy with it, some (like my Rottie) do not affect her at all. I also like gabapentin for neurologic pain and it's pretty inexpensive too. I just bought a pair of bear bells from the REI store while I was out in Salt Lake City for my Rottie. We walk a block down with them above her back feet and a block back above the front feet to increase range of motion. For arthritis pain, she's also due for her HA injections into her hips and elbow joints (I'm a big fan of this too and I am going to ask the surgeon to teach me how to give them before I leave town).


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

You Ladies are just a bunch of nuturers :-s


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> You Ladies are just a bunch of nuturers :-s


Yes that is me LOL- must be in the genes

I have also heard from overseas friends that the HA injections are great. I dont think we can get them here.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sara, the equine vets use them more frequently than general practice small animal practitioners. Knees are pretty easy to do for a general practioner, but hips and elbows (what my Rottie needs) are more tricky. The surgeons use the equine HA product on my dog.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Sara, the equine vets use them more frequently than general practice small animal practitioners. Knees are pretty easy to do for a general practioner, but hips and elbows (what my Rottie needs) are more tricky. The surgeons use the equine HA product on my dog.


 
I just hadnt heard of it being used over here. I will ask my sister who was a specialist surgical vet for many years and has done my various cruciate, elbow and hip surgeries over the years on several dogs and my BIL also a vet who breeds and races horses. Neither have ever mentioned it to me, nor other specialist vets or people in the horse world I know.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Let me know what you find out. I am most curious to hear what colleagues do down in Oz.  Some of the older school orthopods will do steroid injections into the joints along with hyaluronic acid, but I've had reasonably good luck (with how really bad both her hips and elbows are) with just HA.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Let me know what you find out. I am most curious to hear what colleagues do down in Oz.  Some of the older school orthopods will do steroid injections into the joints along with hyaluronic acid, but I've had reasonably good luck (with how really bad both her hips and elbows are) with just HA.


Will let you know. My sister did her surgical fellowship in the late eighties/early nineties - dont know if that qualifies as old school LOL, she retired very recently to spend more time with her children.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

HA definitely given to horses but not to dogs but as my sister says she could be out of date, have asked another vet friend


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## John-Ashley Hill (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses they are very helpful and much appreciated!


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## Albert Dillingham (May 13, 2011)

Hello...

Have you tried asking for a second opinion from another vet or from a specialist?

Considering your dog's age and the strenuous activities that he engages in, the wear and tear will certainly manifest itself as bone-joint-cartilage degeneration. For the meantime, I think restricted activity is called for before a definite diagnosis is made.

And also, have you asked your vet for some natural joint supplements and natural analgesic/anti-inflammatory medications? The risks and side effects are just to serious to ignore.


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## Carlos Machado (Dec 28, 2008)

I would give the dog ester C twice a day work up to 2000mg a day if you start slow at 500mg and add more Vit C every couple of days if the stool gets too soft you have reached the limit your dog can handle and back off a bit till the stools hardens. I also would give a b-complex twice a day and glucosamine chondroditin with msm and get all three together a liquid is best it is much more absorbed then pills and hydrochloride is twice as absorbed as the sulfate versions again give 2000mg a day it could help in as little as a week but takes two months fore the full effect. 
Human versions are about 20 dollars a bottle horse versions are a little cheaper dog versions can be expensive they are the same just read the label to work out the dose. I have used it for myself after a bad back problem and many people I know take it works if you take enough and keep it going.


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