# Puppy visiting the training club



## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Seems a shame that we're not using this section of the forum. Do you folks introduce the pup to the sights and sounds of the training field right away?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I've heard many say to wait for the puppy shots to be through. I hate wasting those weeks 7-12 when so much can be imprinted on a pup. I start them as soon as I get them.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Seems reasonable to have a lot of the nerve wracking things wait until the pup really trusts you. If you get him at 8 weeks I guess that means waiting until at least 10 (?)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I spend a few days until the pup is comfortable with me. Most working line dogs that usually takes less then a couple of days.
I got my current pup at 6 wks. We were at club within the week. 
Just keep an eye on the pup to see that your not tossing more then it can handle. That's probably more about your individual expierience then anything else. Trust someone you know well to guide you.
Have you spent any time at the club your going to? It would be good to talk with them about this also. They may/should have a particular procedure with pups.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I've heard many say to wait for the puppy shots to be through. I hate wasting those weeks 7-12 when so much can be imprinted on a pup. I start them as soon as I get them.


This month's Whole Dog Journal agrees with you, Bob. It reprints the open letter below.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache...ert+k.+anderson,+dvm&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us is about puppy socializing classes, but it's the same principle.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nice article Connie. Thanks! 
I might add that at aprox 16 weeks I've seen more then a few pups that go through a brain fart during training. Some seem to forget everything they've learned. Don't know if it has to do with teething or what. 
That period would be a tough spot to get a pup. JMHO!
Any others observe this?


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I think because at 16 weeks the first spurt of independence kicks in and puppies become really, really interested in stuff outside to their up until then fairly narrow existence. I really notice it in confident pups as right about then you would swear their ears fell off....they are more intersted in exploring all the interesting stuff.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Lynn Cheffins said:


> I think because at 16 weeks the first spurt of independence kicks in and puppies become really, really interested in stuff outside to their up until then fairly narrow existence. I really notice it in confident pups as right about then you would swear their ears fell off....they are more intersted in exploring all the interesting stuff.


So then do you think it would it be less noticeable with a less confident puppy?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Good point Lynn! Also the perfect reaso to do imprinting on the younger pup. What the learn at 7-12 wks stays with them.
Connie. Not to answer for Lynn but I think it could be more noticable in a less confident dog. All the new awareness could create an overlaod.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

What Bob said -:smile: 
I notice that some pups that have seemed pretty outgoing can start to show being spooky at about then


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That could also create a velcro dog. Maybe not a bad thing in a pet. It might keep the weak little bassad from running away. :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

4 months is a crappy time to get a puppy. Definately the shithead stage. I would rather wait and get the pup later, if at all.

There is something to be said for letting the pupopy be and waiting to train when they are 9 months. Depends on what kind of pup it is, so a lot of styles don't work as well. 

New people are always in a rush, (can't blame them) and will not see the effect that they have on a pup, as none are overtly negative.

I guess "casual training" or "oh yeah" training is better for the dinkers, were you stop and do 15 seconds worth of work here and there through out the week. Especially if you are new, and don't really know exactly what kind of pup you have.

Start reading clicker articles and articles on "bridging". This is better than just comin at the pup real hard.

Also, you only get a sketch or outline a lot of times on the internet, because a lot of people paid a lot of money, or took a long time to get this ionfo, and most internetters want that shit free, and they want it now. So maybe we don't use this forum so much


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I do three times a week at club but definately a "dinker" (I like that word)with puppy work. Being retired has a big advantage of my dogs being with me most of the day and that's made for "dinking". The clicker/marker training is custom made for pups and young dogs although I don't use the clicker, just a marker word.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

puppies come to the club from 6/7 wks, in the puppypen with some toys. 
I keep an eye on them when shots are fired, but usually they only look and go further playing/sleeping  

No real training is done before about 9 mo., only learn their name, and come here (first playfull, later on it is to obeyed always)


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I am with Selena, pups should watch the adults work from as early as possible. I got Lyka at 10 weeks old and she was at the "club" immediately. She quickly caught on to what was going on and became a pain in the butt jumping around doing backflips trying to join in with the big guys :lol: Watching her run around the field with bite suit pants in her mouth was aways amusing 

I start basic OB with food at around 5 months, just "come" and "sit" and "shut the hell up, all your barking at cows is driving me crazy". Before 5 months I just get em chasing a ball and learning what a hotdog is, and socialization type stuff ofcourse.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

All good stuff. And that's really all I would plan on exposing the pup to. Biting tugs, countering with a full bite, etc.

Bob, you mentioned imprinting. Is there an article out there that anyone likes on imprinting?


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## Amanda Layne (Aug 9, 2006)

Every puppy I have ever had has come out to training as soon as I get them. Ziris got off of a plane from Amsterdam to georgia and was at training at 7 am the next morning.


















She loved watching the "big dogs" from day one.


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

It seems the watching would help imprinting (maybe not the right term here) and drive to some extent.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes, it gets the pup used to the sights and sounds of what they will be doing later.


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## Pauline Michels (Sep 1, 2006)

I've always exposed pups from as early on as possible. But it certainly takes a GOOD helper, one who can truly read the dogs, to not exploit a talented pup. (I speak from experience!) Letting them watch and a bit of rag work with the pup winning BIG TIME has worked well for us.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ted White said:


> All good stuff. And that's really all I would plan on exposing the pup to. Biting tugs, countering with a full bite, etc.
> 
> Bob, you mentioned imprinting. Is there an article out there that anyone likes on imprinting?


Ted, I use the word imprinting instead of training when it comes to puppys. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but my pups know sitz, platz, here, and start understanding basic foos position by 10-12 wk old. This is all done as a fun game. Absolutely no correcting. Just great rewards when the proper behaviour is offered. Nothing more then marking and rewarding a behaviour when it happens during playtime. Once the pup starts understanding what it's being rewarded for, THEN you put a command with it. I think making all the early "training" into a game is a great way to bond with the dog. If you decide to go to compulsion later, things will happen much faster with less need for compulsion.
It's all operant conditioning.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I start taking a pup to training right away if I get it from someone else. And if it's a litter I bred, they start going at 5 weeks and just hanging out in an x-pen watching, playing, etc. Once they are a little older, 8 weeks or so, and I only have 1 or 2 that I have to keep an eye on, I'll tie them out on a harness instead of the x-pen.


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## Leo Hinojosa (Sep 4, 2007)

Take your time training your pup but expose him/her to everything as soon as possible. Do not expect much, and you will be happy with the results....

Too often people want to see the 12 week old pup biting suit pants and stuff...But they have their whole lives ahead of them for that. 

Use allemimic behavior whenever possible...meaning, allow the dog to witness other dogs doing the work...Allow them to see the sends and attack on handler....

If you have dogs in a circle, decoy teasing the younger dogs with a rag or tug...allow your dog to slowly become part of the circle and the action. Sometimes they may freak, so you may be near the circle and as the dogs confidence grows slowly move in. If the dog is pulling to get to the rag, praise and let him pull you to it and reward him for it....

I spend a lot of time on evironmental stimulation as possible...Climbing whatever I can think of... I play with bottles, keys and other objects so the pup is comfortable with all sorts of objects in his mouth....

Remember at this point in time, its all PLAY....and having fun enjoying your pup...

Leo Hinojosa
www.malinoisdesdomaineduhinojosa.com


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

After the puppy has had its last set of shots, we like to crate them near the training field. Using an open/wire create. The puppy can see and hear what the big dogs are doing. And imprinting is going on! We never allow a puppy to run free or to socialize with others.


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

I got my pup at 7 weeks of age. Picked him up on Saturday and he was at the club "Playing around" on sunday morning. Nothing to stressful the first day but let him bite a puppy sleeve a few times with TONS of praise. 

Granted, I had been down to visit him on three seperate weekends during which we played together (myself and the entire litter) for the whole weekend so they were all accustomed to me. 

I just think that in the beginning it is important to make the puppy feel invinceable and promote supreme confidence which is what we did and continue to do still since he is only 18 weeks old. Stress them and build that stress but always promote self assurance. JMHO.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

The big red flag!
I would not want any puppy to come out to our club until it had all of its shots. You never know what type of bug your new dog could get and kill it. After all of the shots have been had, sure! Exposure to new sights, sounds, and smells are all important to the working puppy. We have a vet coming out with her Giant Schnauzer in a few, but not until it has all of the shots!


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Point of clarification on my last post. There was a "house cleaning" of sorts to the club prior to my arrival, the only dog at the club that day was mine and the training venue was the TD's house since the other members travel from out of state to train and take the winters off of training and the in-state members were awaiting their pups to mature so they could be picked up from France. There was no danger of the pup getting sick or something of that ilk.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I like to have young pups out after the shots. It is a valuable imprinting time that can never be recaptured. Puppies learn by watching and if they bark in a crate, they are saying, "Hey let me have some of that fun."


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Why not just let 'em watch YouTube videos of good dogs working, until they're vaccinated and ready to go?! :lol:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Why watch when you can play! :twisted:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm not a fan of waiting til the shots are finished. To much imprinting can be done in those early weeks. I think that idea has been prover to be over stated.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I'm not a fan of waiting til the shots are finished. To much imprinting can be done in those early weeks. I think that idea has been prover to be over stated.


Duh! It seems I've already commented on the puppy shots and Connie posted a link verifying my thoughts..........Nevermind! :grin:


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I start taking my pups to the club at a very early age. As the breeder, that's one place they start going at 5-6 weeks to socialize. I take precautions, they only go to fields I believe are "safe" (ie no history of any dogs out there having been sick lately), they are only around dogs I personally know to be current on vaccines and healthy, etc. But I don't see much difference between leaving the pup at home, going to training, walking around, touching dogs and equipment, then coming home and being around the pups, and just taking the pups out there. The stuff I worry the most about in this area is Parvo, which is transmitted via the stools. One TINY piece of stool has enough of the virus to infect 20+ dogs, so I could just as easily bring it home by walking through something on my way through the grocery store parking lot as anywhere else. 

To me it's a risk to take pups out, but one that I will take. I'd rather do that then deal with a pup who is 4 months old and unsocialized until that point.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> The big red flag!
> I would not want any puppy to come out to our club until it had all of its shots. You never know what type of bug your new dog could get and kill it. After all of the shots have been had, sure! Exposure to new sights, sounds, and smells are all important to the working puppy. We have a vet coming out with her Giant Schnauzer in a few, but not until it has all of the shots!


Howard, I'm a vet student and I don't believe in waiting until your pup has had all its vaccinations by 16 weeks. I've heard too many stories of puppies picking up parvo even in the soil in their backyard. It's a very tough little virus. We had mouse parvo virus (it doesn't cross species) turn up in our research lab while I was in grad school. We had to spend about $25,000 to go in, kill every single mouse in our colony, clean everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) top to bottom with this solution of stuff, replace the walls, sterilize the floors, even fumigate it. After a time, we got a new colony going. Had sentinels placed and tested 2 months later. Guess what? Parvo positive!! :evil: I partially blame that damn virus for making me get my masters degree a year late. 

I had Fawkes (a pup from Kadi's litters) climbing around all over the place outside at 8.5 weeks. We went somewhere new and interesting just about every day. Ironically, he ended up having a vaccination reaction at nearly 12 weeks to the distemper/hepatitis/parainfluenza/parvo shot. :roll:


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Maren can't a puppy pick up parvo from people who have walked from a kennel that has it and spread it to the new area? And aren't some places more prone to getting it? I have always felt that it was safer to wait and have all the shots than to do puppy social stuff in new areas of possible question. To me I can create scenarios at home where it is safer than going out into the unknown. But I do see your point and thank you for sharing...


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

As a vet student, are you hearing about any new "bugs" that we need to watch out for or strains that don't respond well to regular treatments? Info please!


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

My pup had and survived Parvo. As Maren said, the virus is almost impossible to kill (bleach) and survives for a year, through winter freezes, and can be airborne. My pup was in isolation in my backyard in the country far from other dogs, yet he contracted it. 

So really, there's just no hiding from it.


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