# Protection work



## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Hi,
Here's a part of the training we had on a basement. Decoy is Tsjech., used to work with police dogs and security people over there. I'll try to put the search & bite, and a video with the 2 gsd too.
Mal still learning.

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=GhN3Ij7kbHM
Thanks.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Hi, 
capacity of search & bit/bark videos to big for youtube it seems..

But here the two germans : 
my female, doing some ipo/schutz style protection work (have to be carefull with her now with jumping etc ..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mUZH7a2qXo

my male, aka "the diesel" ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab0m8pl5L0w

thanks, Jo


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Who is the helper in the videos of your GSD's?


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Jarmila Pallot, has a training center in Jersey (UK), now started one here in Belgium.
Why Mike?
Thanks.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Just curious, was trying to hear what you guys were saying and thought I heard an english accent, but wasnt sure


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Haha, language .. mix of Czech, Dutch, French, and English :wink:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

You speak Czech too???

And here I am struggling with French.... I can't even say "I don't speak French" in French :lol: But most people understand "non francais, nederlands??".

Ofcourse, only 0.5% of Brussels speaks Dutch......


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Search and bite video mal : 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SAZnUIsi_I

rgds, Jo


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

so is the growling on the bite that the diesel's doing an ok thing? it just seems like i remember (ha ha) that growling like that is 'conflict' or 'stress' or something...

feel free to educate me--that's what i'm here for...


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Ann,
you have a point, heard and read the same thing.
But with him, he likes to growl :roll: He growls when I play with him, he growls while playing with the 2 bitches, he growls when he's hungry:wink: , so it's just him I think. Should call him the growler instead of the diesel.

Thanks. Other comments on the vids, pos of neg, welcome of course.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

my gsd male, search and bite work
(Ann, he'll growl while barking, listen good  )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SAZnUIsi_I

thanks


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Some dogs are just really noisey 

Do all your dogs only target the forearm? What happens if the decoy is passive, with arms straight up in the air so the dog can't reach the forearm. What does the dog do? I have seen alot of dogs that just stand there trying to jump up to reach the forearm or act confused, instead of biting the leg or something else that is reachable.

I don't really like forearm bites on a bite suit, even though I know this is what they do in NVBK.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Yep, like some people are noisey, he's very noisey :wink: 

Yeah Mike, and it's a shame. I started all the protection work on a ipo-sleeve and continued for quite some time... Will not happen with the next pup, believe me.
For my gsd's it's too late, and yes, my male would take anything if needed, so does the mal.
I had a very good chat with the owner of the father of the mal after he saw the videos (he trains knpv) and from tomorrow on we will start working on the upper arm (inner & outer).

It's always great to see how we can learn from a st*pid vid.

Many thanks


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

It's never too late to teach new targeting to a dog. Once the dog understands the option then it becomes a matter of preference for the dogs.

I have worked with several police dogs that were trained almost entirely on a sleeve, but after they bit a few bad guys on the street, the dog naturally developed his own style and preferences. I didn't like the dog that liked to bite my ass very much, but hey, he bites


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> You speak Czech too???
> 
> And here I am struggling with French.... I can't even say "I don't speak French" in French :lol: But most people understand "non francais, nederlands??".
> 
> Ofcourse, only 0.5% of Brussels speaks Dutch......


Mike:

Je ne parlez pas Francais, parlez vous néerlandais/anglais s'il vous plaît.

fonetisch:

se ne parlee pa fraansais, parlee vou neerlandee/anglees sil voe pleet.

that's about all the french I can speak


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Come on guys, especially Selena : 
Man is never to old to learn...and a wise man will learn forever! :wink:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

I will try to learn some French when I can go to south Belgium and speak Dutch to someone


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Still working on English here! :wink:


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

well, diesel's kinda growl especially in low gears, so we can make it work! i wondered about it because he didn't really act "stressed", looked to me like he was having fun and maybe trying to scare the bad guy by sounding like a BA 
nice dogs!!


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Ann ,
thank you for the nice comments.
I just cleaned the kennels and he even growls on the hose, bigh mouth :wink:


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## Ty Brown (Jan 17, 2008)

Where do you get the hand protectors?


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

I love the fact that you bravely put you and your training out there for the world to see, warts and all. Video's dont lie. You see all sorts of stuff. I think it awesome. 

Yes, I can see the IPO issues, lots of IPO trainers have a very regemented and patient approach. Doesn't translate well to real life scenarios. You could see your dog doesn't like being touched by anything while biting. Whether the decoy or man made objects. These are things as puppies we condition our pups. He tries to avoid the contact of the decoy. As a good decoy, at this point, you could make him even more nervous and get him thinking alot more to a point where he might break off the bite to make sure he is safe.

The fascinating part is, The self realization. It makes you a better handler and trainer to stay working with the challenges. I have a very soft dog now, drives me crazy. But, it is new for me and I like the challenge of this unique dog.

I cant wait to see your next pups. Keep up the hard work and video's. I hope to get some soon of my Happier than hell Malinois, too freaking happy for me. PUDGE loves kids as much as food. Hard to imagine him being a Police Dog someday, but we shall see)

Bryan


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Thank you very much Bryan, really appreciate. I hope more comments, pos or neg will come.
There is so much to learn.

Ty, they ordered it via the internet, U.K.store.
If you want I can ask the link?

Regards, Jo


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Johan Dekinder said:


> Thank you very much Bryan, really appreciate. I hope more comments, pos or neg will come.
> There is so much to learn.
> 
> Ty, they ordered it via the internet, U.K.store.
> ...


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Ok Jo here goes: since you are now training reality work instead IPO I would only try a few things. To see the true heart of the dog, I like to make them uncomfortable. For example: If you are going to make your decoy put on an entire bite suit, force him to use it. Your IPO dogs are comfortable biting sleeves, so break that cycle and REALLY use the suit. Or if you have some standard that dictates you only are allowed sleeve bites, then start using a hidden sleeve a little more. Part of being a decoy is being creative, brave, and learning to deal with getting hurt a little. Where you find stress, then go back to really fun bite work, be a parnter with praise for him, like when your Malinois was biting, the decoy tried to take him over the wooden beam while on the bite. He had some serious stress with that. Next time be right there with him, and your decoy should really respond like he was hurt almost upon bringing the dog over the beam. Once I see a problem, I go back to baby steps. He was in that fight all alone and had to not with a terribly intimidating decoy, but environmental pressure as well. 

I love it though.

Bryan


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Thanks again Bryan.
Two very good points : a) the decoy could and should be a bit more creative b) I should more act like a team with my dogs, especially the malinois -> help each other when needed.

Kind regards, Jo


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Johan Dekinder said:


> Come on guys, especially Selena :
> Man is never to old to learn...and a wise man will learn forever! :wink:


Je me deteste Francais a l'ecole. Je me parle Francais un peu, monsieur.

Had French in my first 3 yrs of High School, also German. German isn;t to bad, I can read and understand about everything, but talking or writing is a crime çause I automatically fall back in Dutch. I hate the naamvallen.

If I hear or read french, some thing come back but I forgot about almost everything I've learnt those years in school. Always had a 5 or 6 (out of 10) for it (= a C or D rate, i think).


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

> but talking or writing is a crime çause I automatically fall back in Dutch.


ha ha. I do that. I took German for 6 months. I dropped the class because I kept talking Dutch to my teacher.


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

Selena meid, je maakt me aan het lachen :wink: ..
Je me déteste means : ik verafschuw mijzelf, haha


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Johan Dekinder said:


> Selena meid, je maakt me aan het lachen :wink: ..
> Je me déteste means : ik verafschuw mijzelf, haha


 ](*,) hahhaha zie je waarom frans niet zo'n goed idee is :-\"


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## Bryan Colletti (Feb 16, 2007)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> ](*,) hahhaha zie je waarom frans niet zo'n goed idee is :-\"


My goodness Selena, do you know any Native Navajo tongue? In America there is so little focus on learning other languages. It is terrible since so many are spoken here, and the internet has brought us all closer.

Bryan


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

I speak and write fluent dutch (my motherlanguage), my english is getting better since I come here :wink: 

In high school we're taught german, english, french and dutch in the first 3 grades. You must take your exam in dutch and 1 foreign language, you can choose if you want to take exams in other foreign languages (german, french or in some schools spanish). 

We've 3 different levels on high school, on the highest level they teach you also classic greec and latin.

I graduated in the intermediate level and took only english and dutch as languages.

So no, I don;t speak any other languages:wink: Johan told me that my french sucked by the way. As a belgium he's taught in Dutch and french in his whole schoollife, and probably speaks both languages fluently, besides english.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

so mike, ask your dad if he knows what "do-ohla dahpadix" (that is STRICTLY phonetic, BTW!!!) means. it's a phrase my grampa used when talking to, ummm, stubborn cows. in german. (the 'a's are short 'a's). 

and if anyone else here knows, PLEASE tell me! PM me if you have to, i don't think it's a "nice" phrase.


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

My first language is Welsh, my Grandparents never spoke english, and parents only learned it in their late teens. Not very useful in the dog world I'm afraid, although there are certain remote parts of Argentina that speak it, handy if the FCIs or WUSVs are ever held there.


Mark


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