# Stock Market



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

](*,) This is starting to suck in a big way I am now starting to get nervous how long can this go on. Don't know if I buy, switch, hold or shit! or stick my head in the sand. 
Any one else getting freaked.


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## Terry Fisk (Jul 26, 2007)

Mike Scheiber said:


> ](*,)
> Any one else getting freaked.


Definately, since my two 401K's are directly affected. I just saw what little retirement I had go down the drain


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yeah, big time. For us, the good news is the house we are in now is paid for, and our land in Washington is paid for. The scarey stuff is our investments. We were thinking about picking up some income property, but not now. Peter is a contractor, people won't be building or doing any large scale home remodels if the economy tanks. I used to joke I hated So Cali so much I would be willing to erect a damn teepee on our Washington land just to get the hell out of Dodge, that might be the only way I'll get to live there any time soon. Now's the time to be a squirrel not a grasshopper.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Yeah, this is a hard time for me and hubby. He just got laid off a little less than 2 weeks ago and can't find anything.  I'm 25 and just started my Roth IRA a few months back, which is cool, but I wonder if I should put it on pause til he finds one. I know in some ways you can think of a tanking market really being like a sale, but that's only if you've got the money to buy.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

We are in uncharted waters. The end of the tunnel is not yet in site. It will take years to work through this crisis. Liquidity is KING now. You don't here much about leveraging assets anymore.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I just worry about the dogs digging up the mason jars buried in the yard! 8-[


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

you guys need to get whatever cash you can out of your bank. By the week of Oct 5th things are going to get really nasty. Cash rules!

This is the "shock" phase just wait until "awe" that comes around Oct 7th.

Maren, sorry your hubby is out of work. I know what's it like. It took me a year to find a $35K/yr job. That's less than half of what I had been making for the prior 10 years. My wife and I operate on less than 30% of what we have been used to and ya know what? I like it. No TV, no going out just lot's of "quality time" [BIG GRIN]

You guys will be fine.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> you guys need to get whatever cash you can out of your bank. By the week of Oct 5th things are going to get really nasty. Cash rules!
> 
> This is the "shock" phase just wait until "awe" that comes around Oct 7th.
> 
> ...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Just remember two things: 1. Don't panic. 2. If you are in a diverisified 401K, or other investment, you haven't lost a cent, until you sell. that's what ole Sam Walton said one time after a particularly rough day on the market. He did ok.

DFrost


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## Russ Spencer (Jun 2, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> you guys need to get whatever cash you can out of your bank. By the week of Oct 5th things are going to get really nasty. Cash rules!
> 
> I believe your banked funds are protected up to $100k. At that point you need to be moving the excess around. Doing a run on the banks helps no one. Pretty soon you're gonna be reading about a four-fold increase in home burglaries and they won't be going for the electronics either. They'll be going for the cash that people have been yanking out of the bank.
> 
> ...


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I agree with you Russ. You should keep some cash on hand because of what we saw with the IndyMac failure. Panic set in no matter what they were telling customers with deposits there. Long lines of people of panic stricken angry people trying to get money out is, if nothing else, a pain the the a**.

That may not happen again because the public is more educated on how the system works. Time will tell.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

You're correct Russ BUT did you notice the article where the FDIC says it's insurance fund is dwindling? They are tell everyone they don't have the money.

America has been bankrupt for years and on Sept 30 it's the end of the fiscal year. What do you think that report is going to be?

I don't believe for a second my money is safe...not anymore

Did you read about the gold prices? That means hyper inflation is coming. When folks start buying up precious metals like that only bad things are coming.

**
*Will the FDIC run out of money? Taxpayers' growing burdens
*
Posted Aug 27th 2008 8:35AM by Douglas McIntyre
Filed under: Forecasts, Bad news, Economic data

From the end of March to the end of June, problem banks, as they are defined by the FDIC, rose from 90 to 117. These are banks with a high percentage of "non-current" loans.

*The trouble is that the agency may not have enough money to cover the possible upcoming bank closings. So the FDIC said it "might have to borrow money from the Treasury Department to see it through an expected wave of bank failures," according to The Wall Street Journal.
*
At least two implication arise from this. The most obvious is that the credit crisis is spreading. More banks are having trouble with mortgage, business and commercial real estate loans. Given the spreading effects of the recession, that is not odd.

The other is the extent to which the taxpayer will be hit because of lax bank management. Money from the Treasury is eventually money from every man, woman and child in the country. But who cares? After bailouts of banks and brokerages and possible help for car companies, what is a few more billion?



Russ Spencer said:


> Chris Michalek said:
> 
> 
> > you guys need to get whatever cash you can out of your bank. By the week of Oct 5th things are going to get really nasty. Cash rules!
> ...


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Some fun quotes to support this thread \\/

September 1929
"There is no cause to worry. The high tide of prosperity will continue." — Andrew W. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury.

October 14, 1929
"Secretary Lamont and officials of the Commerce Department today denied rumors that a severe depression in business and industrial activity was impending, which had been based on a mistaken interpretation of a review of industrial and credit conditions issued earlier in the day by the Federal Reserve Board." — New York Times

December 5, 1929
"The Government's business is in sound condition." — Andrew W. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury

December 28, 1929
"Maintenance of a general high level of business in the United States during December was reviewed today by Robert P. Lamont, Secretary of Commerce, as an indication that American industry had reached a point where a break in New York stock prices does not necessarily mean a national depression." — Associated Press dispatch.

January 13, 1930
"Reports to the Department of Commerce indicate that business is in a satisfactory condition, Secretary Lamont said today." - News item.

January 21, 1930
"Definite signs that business and industry have turned the corner from the temporary period of emergency that followed deflation of the speculative market were seen today by President Hoover. The President said the reports to the Cabinet showed the tide of employment had changed in the right direction." - News dispatch from Washington.

January 24, 1930
"Trade recovery now complete President told. Business survey conference reports industry has progressed by own power. No Stimulants Needed! Progress in all lines by the early spring forecast." - New York Herald Tribune.

March 8, 1930
"President Hoover predicted today that the worst effect of the crash upon unemployment will have been passed during the next sixty days." - Washington Dispatch.

May 1, 1930
"While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed the worst and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There is one certainty of the future of a people of the resources, intelligence and character of the people of the United States - that is, prosperity." - President Hoover

June 29, 1930
"The worst is over without a doubt." - James J. Davis, Secretary of Labor.

August 29, 1930
"American labor may now look to the future with confidence." - James J. Davis, Secretary of Labor.

September 12, 1930
"We have hit bottom and are on the upswing." - James J. Davis, Secretary of Labor.

October 16, 1930
"Looking to the future I see in the further acceleration of science continuous jobs for our workers. Science will cure unemployment." - Charles M. Schwab.

October 20, 1930
"President Hoover today designated Robert W. Lamont, Secretary of Commerce, as chairman of the President's special committee on unemployment." - Washington dispatch.


November 1930
"I see no reason why 1931 should not be an extremely good year." - Alfred P. Sloan, Jr., General Motors Co.

January 20, 1931
"The country is not in good condition." - Calvin Coolidge.

June 9, 1931
"The depression has ended." - Dr. Julius Klein, Assistant Secretary of Commerce.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Interest rates dipped on home loans. I have a few clients buying homes with rates around 5.5%. I don't expect that to last for long. The problem is the banks have now gone to the extreme in paranoia so only about 1 out of 5 people are able to qualify in our area. Some have to sell due to variable rate loans but then they can only rent after they sell. About 25% of my deals have been short sales (bank comes up short). Luckily most money is now just electronic. Government just creates more with electrons. But the basic economic principals have not changed we'll have inflation.

With the us gov's subsidy on ethanol .. corn, ALL feed prices have increased dramatically (hay has tripled in our area). Meat is still reasonable only because farmers can not afford to feed livestock so are sending more supply to slaughter. You can't give a horse away right now. Wait until that supply is no longer there. Meat, dog food etc will sky rocket.

I expect it to be rocky for a few more years. I'm raising a lot of my own protein rabbits and a few ducks and chickens. Just for fun and just in case. After butchering my pup sure likes what we don't eat. I feed my weened rabbits weeds so they are real cheap to raise but grow slower.... Just rambling now


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I'm good and significantly less freaked out than most. My company is growing and the industries it supports have not been _as_ affected.

In the Midwest, there's a bit of a cushion, less growth overall so not so far to fall. 

But here's why I'm not really worried: If the economy crashes, I will still be alive. I will have someplace to live - whether or not it is the place I now call home. I will still be close to the people that I care about. As long as the earth has dirt, I will have food to eat.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

David Scholes said:


> With the us gov's subsidy on ethanol .. corn, ALL feed prices have increased dramatically (hay has tripled in our area). Meat is still reasonable only because farmers can not afford to feed livestock so are sending more supply to slaughter. You can't give a horse away right now. Wait until that supply is no longer there. Meat, dog food etc will sky rocket.
> 
> I expect it to be rocky for a few more years. I'm raising a lot of my own protein rabbits and a few ducks and chickens. Just for fun and just in case. After butchering my pup sure likes what we don't eat. I feed my weened rabbits weeds so they are real cheap to raise but grow slower.... Just rambling now


That's an interesting point, David. We are doubling the size of our veggie garden for next summer. It was nice not having to pay for tomatoes, cantaloupe, herbs, and lettuce. With all the rain, I only had to water once this summer. I even made 4 meals worth of spaghetti sauce from the bumper crop of tomatoes, I was pleased, especially since the garden plot wasn't that big. 

I'm going to try my hardest to do chickens next year. I'd like to have a good little flock of broilers and a few nice layers. Fortunately, even if I don't, I can get fantastic pastured chickens from a guy at the farmers market for $6 (no tax) a piece when I buy 12 at a time. That's like the same price as Wal-Mart and you cannot beat the taste! 

What I'd like to see is a conversion back to pasture/grass feeding the food animals. Less money for antibiotics because they aren't as sick with crowding and stress and a high grain diet in feedlots. Less fat in the meat and more of the good stuff. There's slightly over 100 million cattle in this country now. 150 years ago, there was between 60-100 million bison all grazing on the prairie. Surely we can do it if we're smart about it and turn some of the corn fields into pasture. Better for the soil, better for the ecology (grass polyculture is better than grain monoculture), less pesticides, and better for the local family farm and the animals. Buying and supporting local and buying smart is our best bet.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Just remember two things: 1. Don't panic. 2. If you are in a diverisified 401K, or other investment, you haven't lost a cent, until you sell. that's what ole Sam Walton said one time after a particularly rough day on the market. He did ok.
> 
> DFrost


That is exactly my plan - after recovery I am definitely going to reallocate to lower risk but only because I am 52 and I am probably over invested in stock funds for even now. But those funds are at least diversified within the stock fund sector. Hopfully things will recover in the next 14-15 years  

In terms of a run on the bank - I keep less than 10K in the bank so I am not really worried in that regard.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Anne Vaini said:


> I'm good and significantly less freaked out than most. My company is growing and the industries it supports have not been _as_ affected.
> 
> In the Midwest, there's a bit of a cushion, less growth overall so not so far to fall.
> 
> But here's why I'm not really worried: If the economy crashes, I will still be alive. I will have someplace to live - whether or not it is the place I now call home. I will still be close to the people that I care about. As long as the earth has dirt, I will have food to eat.


 
You go girl!
I've seen the "sky falling" to many time in my life. It ain't landed on me yet!


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm hoarding canned chili and 5.56mm... just in case.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> I'm hoarding canned chili and 5.56mm... just in case.



Gut bombs and bullets...mmmmmmm


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> I'm hoarding canned chili and 5.56mm... just in case.


You could be very useful to have around. My car runs on natural gas. We could cut a hole in the hood for funnel and you could sit.... :mrgreen:


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

this guy has been spot on for years. This is a good explanation of what just happened with the stock mkt "fix" if you don't already understand. Pass the chili. Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivaXMEB6HzE


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

Chili is probably the ONLY thing every member of my family will consume with glee, to include the four-legged one.

It isn't bean chili thankfully... I just had a horrible image of being trapped in a tent with three men, a four year old boy and a GSD who'd been eating bean chili.
There aren't enough weather flaps in the world.


It's economic times like these, that make me thank my lucky stars I joined the Army. Job security, y'know? 8)


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Alyssa Myracle said:


> Chili is probably the ONLY thing every member of my family will consume with glee, to include the four-legged one.
> 
> It isn't bean chili thankfully... I just had a horrible image of being trapped in a tent with three men, a four year old boy and a GSD who'd been eating bean chili.
> There aren't enough weather flaps in the world.
> ...



Why not stock pile MREs? I have several boxes from my neighbor who's son is in the military.

I'm afraid to try one.


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## Alyssa Myracle (Aug 4, 2008)

MREs aren't a bad idea to stockpile... I just hate eating the things. Not because they are bad, but because I eat so many of them on a regular basis, I'm just tired of eating them.

I do keep a case or two around the house, for power outages, camping, etc. I prefer to keep other things on hand too, so I'm not stuck with MREs only. In the event of a nuclear holocaust, if all I had to survive on was MREs, I'd envy the dead.


Not to mention, MREs are not designed to be a sole source of nutrition over a long period of time, like C-Rats were. They are dramatically low in fiber, high in carbs and calories.

There's a reason we refer to MREs as "*M*eals *R*efusing to *E*xit."


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

There's nothing to worry about President Bush just made an announcement that the economy is stable despite the financial crisis. 

Phew, I was really worried for a minute there! If the Pres says its OK, then it must be OK!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Dan Long said:


> There's nothing to worry about President Bush just made an announcement that the economy is stable despite the financial crisis.
> 
> Phew, I was really worried for a minute there! If the Pres says its OK, then it must be OK!



True DAT!!! Bush/Cheney 2008!!!!!


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Dan Long said:


> There's nothing to worry about President Bush just made an announcement that the economy is stable despite the financial crisis.
> 
> Phew, I was really worried for a minute there! If the Pres says its OK, then it must be OK!


God I hope the wheels don't fall off before that dumb ass is gone unbelievable #-o


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Well, it is the week of October 5th and things really ARE getting nasty.

Just remembered this thread..........................................................


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Well, it is the week of October 5th and things really ARE getting nasty.
> 
> Just remembered this thread..........................................................



Things are going to get bad, really bad. Jim Cramer was on the TODAY show and he expects the market to drop 20% or more. He said get your money out now as in today unless you can withstand a financial beating for at least five years. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoSLVCEGKko

Folks, the bailout was nothing more than a $.10 solution to a $1000 problem. 

Time to stock up on those can's of Chili and MREs8-[


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Its a Catch 22. If EVERYONE stopped pulling money out of banks and the market, there would be a less dramatic impact. The problem is, people are gonna do it anyway, so if you're the one that doesn't then you're the one that loses.

So, yay for mass hysteria and media benzine.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I thought last night's "60 Minutes" segment regarding the Credit Default Swaps was very eye opening. If anyone wants to read the article:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/60minutes/main4502454.shtml


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> I thought last night's "60 Minutes" segment regarding the Credit Default Swaps was very eye opening. If anyone wants to read the article:
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/60minutes/main4502454.shtml



THIS is eye opening 


Ex-military intelligence officer says 596 Trillon derivatives market getting ready to explode. This guy says the 700 billion bailout is a 10 cent solution to a $1000 problem. Bank holiday coming this week. Worldwide economic shutdown within 24 hours afterwords. All credit cards frozen, all ATM machines shutdown, etc. 

"We could have a total catastrophe."

http://www.kereport.com/audio/1004-04.mp3


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

At 53, I still don't plan on pulling out of the market or even pulling my money out of, eeek, Wachovia where I bank. But that does not mean I am not worried about the next decade or more. We all live on our ATM money. There would be revolution before starvation. I am stocking up on canned beans and meat though.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

WACHOVIA is halted, Citi wants $20b from Wachovia and $40b from Wells for compensatory and punitive damages. 

Things are SOOOO screwed up right now. 

Nancy, quite honestly I would get some cash to keep on hand while Wachovia is being pushed and pulled. Not sayin' you're gonna lose anything or that anything is gonna happen but it's better to be safe than sorry especially with Wachovia.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

I’m 36… I’m not retiring till I’m 53 or 56. My deferred comp account (457 Plan) is taking a hit but I have 20 years to make a comeback… the way I look at it, you’re buying cheep right now!!!


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## liz shulman (Aug 28, 2008)

Russ Spencer said:


> If you want to move your money to a safe place
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Keep a dog loose in the house!


My idea of a safe place to keep my money is out of reach of the dog. He's welcome to be loose in the house, I just have to be careful where I put my wallet.

On the plus side of things, the price of gas is coming down. ](*,)


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

liz shulman said:


> My idea of a safe place to keep my money is out of reach of the dog. He's welcome to be loose in the house, I just have to be careful where I put my wallet.
> 
> On the plus side of things, the price of gas is coming down. ](*,)


Payed $2.97 for reg. yesterday


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

The best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle your empties.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> The best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle your empties.


If food prices keep increasing we may have to eat the empties!:grin:


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Maybe someday that cheap gas will trickle back into the Carolinas - it was $3.62 here for regular yesterday.

I made the mistake of looking at my retirement accounts today .................. down 25% from this time last year [when I take account for the money I added in] so maybe I am doing *slightly* better than the Dow but OW.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Payed $2.97 for reg. yesterday


Now 2.89
I am scared to check my IRA I have maintaining a fairly aggressive portfolio I am certain its bad](*,)
should be getting another letter from my pension soon I would think.


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