# Contes d'Hoffmann Dogs in the Midwest?



## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Just wondering, are any of you working/trialing any Cd'H dogs in the Midwest area? It's one of the lines I'm interested in checking out to learn more about, however I'm not really aware of any in Wisconsin or the general Midwestern region. If anybody is aware of any that might be in the area a/o competing anywhere in the general vicinity, feel free to let me know. Thanks in advance!

-Cheers


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey David, you might try contacting Laure at http://www.contesdhoffmann.com/ Her father Philippe, and now her (with Patrick's guidance) are the CdH breeders in the US and might know of some dogs in your area. Philippe also imported and resold a lot of CdH dogs while he lived here. There are a lot of dogs out there that are part CdH, but if you really want to get a feel for a line, and the goals of that breeder in terms of production, I'd look at dogs from that kennel first, and ones a generation or two down from those dogs second.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey Kadi,



Kadi Thingvall said:


> Hey David, you might try contacting Laure at http://www.contesdhoffmann.com/ Her father Philippe, and now her (with Patrick's guidance) are the CdH breeders in the US and might know of some dogs in your area. Philippe also imported and resold a lot of CdH dogs while he lived here. There are a lot of dogs out there that are part CdH, but if you really want to get a feel for a line, and the goals of that breeder in terms of production, I'd look at dogs from that kennel first, and ones a generation or two down from those dogs second.


Thanks, that's actually a really good idea. I'll try to contact her and see what's close enough for me to drive to or that might be coming to an area close by for any events that I might be able to check out in person. Thank you very much for the reply!

-Cheers


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

You can also check w/ Le Chenil de Loucyn and Stephanie O'Brien. I believe she also received a great deal of guidance from Mr. Phillipe and breeds his line as well (CdH). Good luck w/ ur search.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Zakia Days said:


> You can also check w/ Le Chenil de Loucyn and Stephanie O'Brien. I believe she also received a great deal of guidance from Mr. Phillipe and breeds his line as well (CdH). Good luck w/ ur search.


Yeah, that is a good idea. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure Stephanie does not have any dogs around by me. I'd love to see some of her dogs in person. I should probably just take a vacation to Cali sometime and meet some of the dog folk out there and see their dogs. There are a lot of pretty impressive kennels and dog events out there that I'd love to check out. Anyway, yeah, if there are any Loucyn dogs regionally or that are planning on competing by where I'm at, I'd love to go out and check them out.

-Cheers


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I have seen a few of those dogs. They bite like crazy. I think they are a little stupid too. Infact I think they are fairly dense. Some people do really well with them and some are just not so bright. But they do bite that is for sure.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I have seen a few of those dogs. They bite like crazy. I think they are a little stupid too. Infact I think they are fairly dense. Some people do really well with them and some are just not so bright. But they do bite that is for sure.


I agree with this, that's one reason I like some CdH in a pedigree, but not 100%. I prefer a dog who is a little more intelligent among other things.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I have seen a few of those dogs. They bite like crazy. I think they are a little stupid too. Infact I think they are fairly dense. Some people do really well with them and some are just not so bright. But they do bite that is for sure.


can you give me a few examples of stupid?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I agree with this, that's one reason I like some CdH in a pedigree, but not 100%. I prefer a dog who is a little more intelligent among other things.


Agreed. My half CdH is a thinking Malinois. Most of the time. \\/


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

super man head plant into the palisade is pretty stupid


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I agree with this, that's one reason I like some CdH in a pedigree, but not 100%. I prefer a dog who is a little more intelligent among other things.


Kadi, where would you say, generally speaking, they fall on the intelligence spectrum? Are they less intelligent then other Malinois, other breeds, etc.? I'm a Bulldog person, so my perspective is a bit slanted. ;-) Anyway, just curious. Thanks for the input!



Daniel Lybbert said:


> super man head plant into the palisade is pretty stupid


Dude, there was totally a banana peel there! Also, "into" or "through" the palisade? Enquiring minds want to know!

I'm guessing that is not a recurring problem with the line.

-Cheers


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I know a couple cdh dogs. One of them is my dogs dad. I like them. I just think a cross is better than the full meal deal. I know a few crosses too and I like them. Alot.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

I don't feel that they are stupid or dense. I think they are atypical of the average Malinois. I think the biggest thing that makes them look "dumb" is that they tend not to have the energy that most Malinois have. It's hard to explain, but it's like they are just as happy not do anything as they are doing something. They are not the kind of Malinois that cruises they yard looking for some shit to get into. But when you tell them it's time for action they are always ready to go. I think Rotts and Bouvs are the extremest of this trait. A Bouv fancier I read called it a sleeping volcano. 

I also think they tend to be hard to physical correction and super resilient. They take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. But this makes the dog look "dumb". For instance when my dog was a puppy I was teaching him to hold his down on a table. My dog would hold the down and I would feed him randomly in less than 30 seconds. And every fifth time or so he would break the down. So I started to correct him lightly with the pinch for breaking. After a month of this he would still break. One day I got frustrated, grabbed him by the scuff and told him NO and placed him back into the down. And I don't think that he has broken a down since. The correction had to be personal. So if you are not willing too or don't know how to make it personal, I think the dog will look dumb. Once I started to make it personal he looked like a prodigy. 

They also tend to look stupid. Big ears, light eyes, big feet, heavy boned, long bodied and sort of dopey looking. They just aren't the sharpest looking line of Malinois.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

There are two Contes d'Hoffmann dogs in Colorado that I'm aware of one puppy 4-5 months and one young adult < 2?
both seem super drivey and social and not dense at all?
I'd take either one if they were Dobermanns ;-)


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

You would take a mal if it was a dobe.............eh???


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Peter

Don't over think it


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> There are two Contes d'Hoffmann dogs in Colorado that I'm aware of one puppy 4-5 months and one young adult < 2?
> both seem super drivey and social and not dense at all?
> I'd take either one if they were Dobermanns ;-)


Hey Thomas, I hear you! I've seen some Dobes that I'd take if they were Bulldogs.  No, I understand what you're saying. The one Dobe I saw that I _think_ has a MRII seemed like a fun, solid dog and had some real desirable traits, working and just how the dog seemed to process things. That's why I'm just trying to get out and see some of the dogs I'm interested in personally if possible to see how they tick.

Anyway, I'll have to go check some Contes d'Hoffmann dogs out. I'm probably playing with a different set of expectations than a lot are, and some things would bother me more than others so I kind of think even if they are not as bright as some of the other lines there are traits that would make them appealing to me. Plus, going from a Bulldog to any sort of Malinois or herder in general, they are likely to blow the doors off what I'm used to.

-Cheers


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Thomas Barriano said:


> There are two Contes d'Hoffmann dogs in Colorado that I'm aware of one puppy 4-5 months and one young adult < 2?
> both seem super drivey and social and not dense at all?


We have a littermate to the younger one in our Ring club, and I will say he's one of the brighter CdH dogs I've worked with. Makes connections quickly, doesn't take an excessive amount of reps for the lightbulb to go on. Which is interesting, I own his 1/2 sister and IMO she's one of the less intelligent dogs I have. She pattern trains OK, but in terms of creative thought there is little happening.

As a side note, the dog Christopher was talking about is actually an example of what I mentioned earlier, CdH lines mixed with other stuff. IMO this gives you the best of both worlds, the resiliency, drives, grips, etc but with a higher level of intelligence. I agree with what Christopher mentioned though also, that with many of them the correction has to be personal. And for some people it can take a higher level of correction than they may be comfortable with, many of these dogs are not the type where a "pinky pop" on a pinch is going to even register with.


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## Jhun Brioso (Dec 28, 2009)

Hi Kadi

In your opinion/experience what other bloodlines of mals improves the intelligence factor when infused w/ some CDh? Thanks in advance.


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## Jim Cook (Mar 17, 2010)

Our pup from Laurie's latest litter is very nice. Biddable, driven, social, and very stable. Huge grips, and very forward biting behavior. Has me thinking seriously about getting one like him for myself. Laurie and Philippe were great to deal with too. All in all a great puppy and buying experience. 

I wouldn't say he was dumb, but he certainly isn't twitchy. More GSD like in his temperament than some other mals we have had. Maybe that's why I like him.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jim Cook said:


> Our pup from Laurie's latest litter is very nice. Biddable, driven, social, and very stable. Huge grips, and very forward biting behavior. Has me thinking seriously about getting one like him for myself. Laurie and Philippe were great to deal with too. All in all a great puppy and buying experience.
> 
> I wouldn't say he was dumb, but he certainly isn't twitchy. More GSD like in his temperament than some other mals we have had. Maybe that's why I like him.


sounds good to me.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> I have seen a few of those dogs. They bite like crazy. I think they are a little stupid too. Infact I think they are fairly dense. Some people do really well with them and some are just not so bright. But they do bite that is for sure.


I have a CdH x Kukay male... who is just over year old... I think he is a typical CDH dog... he's got an amazing bite, crushing in fact... but when the decoy comes out, you can literally see the switch turn off. He gets a 1000 yard stare, doesn't swallow (just drools)... and we've been working on out for a good 9 months now. We've only started making progression w/ an ecollar. Be careful what you wish for... these are very very hard dogs. Some are not sport dogs, as they cannot pass trials because they zero on bite work for not outing.

But that being said, he's an amazing dog... just have to figure out how to out him.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

That being said, I'd get another... 

I can't remember if somebody told me this, or if I'm making it up... but I think somebody said a CdH x calvaire aux acacias was a very good breeding.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I would get another one too...my guy has nice hunt and retrieve drive, athletic, very stable and clear in the head, selectively social, nice on/off switch in the house, very handler responsive, good environmental nerve. His grips have improved tremendously in the last four months, so I am starting to see a little bit of the huge grips that these dogs are known for. Sucks that he was nearly 5 years old before we started getting good consistent decoy work for more than a few months at a time. I think the only thing I'd really change up a little is make him just a tiny bit harder in personality without losing the responsiveness. But it's nice not having to use a 2 x 4 to get him to do something too.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I would get another one too...


Just remember he has two parents  Not all the traits you like are from his father, although many of them are.


> my guy has nice hunt and retrieve drive (dad), athletic (both but more from dad), very stable (both) and clear in the head (mom), selectively social (both), nice on/off switch in the house (both), very handler responsive (mom), good environmental nerve (both). His grips have improved tremendously in the last four months, so I am starting to see a little bit of the huge grips that these dogs are known for (both parents have excellent grips).


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jhun Brioso said:


> Hi Kadi
> 
> In your opinion/experience what other bloodlines of mals improves the intelligence factor when infused w/ some CDh? Thanks in advance.


The CdH x Calvaire aux Acacias combination seems to work well, I'm seeing a number of those being done in France. There have also been some done here in the US. I think combining it with a number of the French lines would give you similar results.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> The CdH x Calvaire aux Acacias combination seems to work well, I'm seeing a number of those being done in France. There have also been some done here in the US. I think combining it with a number of the French lines would give you similar results.


That'll be my next puppy then... Kadi, do you know who is breeding this in North America?


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Just remember he has two parents  Not all the traits you like are from his father, although many of them are.


Oh, I know, I meant a CdH X something else. Much love to Chaos's influence too. Takes a special girl to make FR 3!


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

They are too big too for the most part.


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## Jhun Brioso (Dec 28, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> The CdH x Calvaire aux Acacias combination seems to work well, I'm seeing a number of those being done in France. There have also been some done here in the US. I think combining it with a number of the French lines would give you similar results.


Thank you very much for the response Kadi!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Ryan Venables said:


> That'll be my next puppy then... Kadi, do you know who is breeding this in North America?


You would have to just look around. There are only a couple people with CdH females in the US, there are more people with dogs that are from the bloodlines (at least part CdH), but not the kennel. Same is true for Calvaire aux Acacias. I don't think it would be hard to find say a 1/2 or 3/4 CdH dog bred to a 1/2 or 3/4 CaA dog. 

Laure has talked about this type of breeding, but you would have to contact her to see if she will do it, and when. She's expecting 2 litters soon, but both are CdH females bred to CdH males. I plan to breed "Lilly" CdH in the fall/winter, but I haven't decided who to. Probably frozen semen, but I haven't decided for sure. Other than mine and Laure's I don't know of any other breeding age CdH females (from CdH, vs having some CdH lines in the pedigree) in the US.


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Hmmm... I enjoyed this read!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> They are too big too for the most part.


What size do you like? I got almost exact average between an 85 lbs CdH male and a non-CdH 50 lbs female at 65 lbs. Just right.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> What size do you like? I got almost exact average between an 85 lbs CdH male and a non-CdH 50 lbs female at 65 lbs. Just right.


Keep in mind though that one of the reasons I bought that 85 lb CdH male, other than the simple fact that he was the first dog I'd seen in a long time who my gut reaction to was "I WANT that dog, how much", was that my dogs in my program were getting to small. Including the litter your dogs mother was from. She's 50 lbs, but she had produced even smaller than herself when bred with a 70+ lb male, one female was only 28lbs. Another was the same size at upper 40's to 50 lbs. A lot of CdH are in the 70 and 80 range, with some in the 90lb range. I didn't want dogs that big, but I don't want 55lb males either. 65-75 is my ideal for a male, so by that standard the Mac x Chaos breeding was a success, Fawkes is right in the size range I was looking for  I think smaller and you loose some of that size needed to effectively fight a man, to much larger and you start to loose agility. Not necessarily jumping ability, but those real quick/tight turns a sport like FR can require.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I agree 100%. When he was significantly larger than the other pups, I was not real sure I wanted an 80+ lbs dog. But he matured at the exact right size that I like. Did any of his littermates end up being much bigger? 

Seems the trend is for the Malinois size to be creeping up. I am hearing reports of 100+ lbs Mals now, which I don't think is a great idea. Too much bigger means more food, bigger crate, more expensive for medication and so on, let alone their performance.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I agree 100%. When he was significantly larger than the other pups, I was not real sure I wanted an 80+ lbs dog. But he matured at the exact right size that I like. Did any of his littermates end up being much bigger?
> 
> Seems the trend is for the Malinois size to be creeping up. I am hearing reports of 100+ lbs Mals now, which I don't think is a great idea. Too much bigger means more food, bigger crate, more expensive for medication and so on, let alone their performance.


I have seen 100+ lb mals, the performance expectation is really dependent on their function. 

aside for the 100+, many people want s dog that is 80+ for sure..


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

65 lbs is great. How do you travel with dog over 80lbs? got to drive or send cargo. No thanx I want a compact solid fast mal. 2feetx2feet makes a good size.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> 65 lbs is great. How do you travel with dog over 80lbs? got to drive or send cargo. No thanx I want a compact solid fast mal. 2feetx2feet makes a good size.


in a bigger crate.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Did any of his littermates end up being much bigger?


Poe is bigger, I believe he is mid 70's, but most of the males were in the 60's. 



> Seems the trend is for the Malinois size to be creeping up. I am hearing reports of 100+ lbs Mals now, which I don't think is a great idea. Too much bigger means more food, bigger crate, more expensive for medication and so on, let alone their performance.


While there are some out there that big, there is also a trend of "bigger is better so I'll add 10+ pounds to how big I say my dog is". I've seen a number of Malinois people claim are 95+ who are Mac's size or smaller, I have a really hard time believing they are that heavy. I know of one who was 70-75 but was advertised as 90 when he was sold. Same seems to go for heights, which are even less variable than weight, a Malinois weight can be a little deceptive, but height is height. Once again I've seen dogs claimed to be 28-30 inches tall who I have stood next to Mac (27 inches) or compared to some of my other dogs, and I know for a fact they aren't as tall as claimed.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Sorry, I'm not familiar w/ who Laure is??



Kadi Thingvall said:


> You would have to just look around. There are only a couple people with CdH females in the US, there are more people with dogs that are from the bloodlines (at least part CdH), but not the kennel. Same is true for Calvaire aux Acacias. I don't think it would be hard to find say a 1/2 or 3/4 CdH dog bred to a 1/2 or 3/4 CaA dog.
> 
> Laure has talked about this type of breeding, but you would have to contact her to see if she will do it, and when. She's expecting 2 litters soon, but both are CdH females bred to CdH males. I plan to breed "Lilly" CdH in the fall/winter, but I haven't decided who to. Probably frozen semen, but I haven't decided for sure. Other than mine and Laure's I don't know of any other breeding age CdH females (from CdH, vs having some CdH lines in the pedigree) in the US.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

We just had Mako at the vet the other day, and he's a very lean 65lbs and 26" at 16 months. His father is advertised at 80-85... but I suspect he's more likely 75lbs (working weight). I've also heard he throws smaller also.

My female is 55lbs and 23.5"... Both very nice sized dogs... although I wish he was in the 80lb range  Just my preference.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Ryan Venables said:


> Sorry, I'm not familiar w/ who Laure is??


I _believe_ she is Philippe Belloni's daughter and one of the contacts on the Cd'H site:
http://www.contesdhoffmann.com/contact.php

-Cheers


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

David Ruby said:


> I _believe_ she is Philippe Belloni's daughter and one of the contacts on the Cd'H site:
> http://www.contesdhoffmann.com/contact.php
> 
> -Cheers


Correct. She is bringing in her females from Patrick in France, her current females are ones he's used in the CdH program there, and talks to both him and Philippe on a regular basis regarding breedings.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Ryan Venables said:


> We just had Mako at the vet the other day, and he's a very lean 65lbs and 26" at 16 months. His father is advertised at 80-85... but I suspect he's more likely 75lbs (working weight). I've also heard he throws smaller also.


Based on his current size and age, I'd bet he goes 75 when fully mature. He won't gain much more, if any, in height at this point but he should fill out quite a bit still between now and 2.5 years old.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> Based on his current size and age, I'd bet he goes 75 when fully mature. He won't gain much more, if any, in height at this point but he should fill out quite a bit still between now and 2.5 years old.


I think you're right... his ribs are essentially flat lines down his body. They don't have that real curve like my 4 y/o female has. 

Thanks for all the info!


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

I don't understand the fascination with CdH dogs especially by people who want them for Ring which requires smart dogs that can think on their own. Not something CdH dogs are known for. 

Yes they tend to be larger and have a bigger bite than dogs from other lines but there's so many other traits that are more important imo. They certainly have their purpose but if you look at the list of dogs from the Ring Finale in France over years you'll find very, very few CdH dogs. 

I'd take a Calvaire over a CdH any day.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

I think much of it has to do with the look. But your comment is one of the reasons I said a cac x CdH would be a good combo.

Although there are many lines in Europe that have little representation here that are great dogs


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## Jen Henriksen (Dec 21, 2010)

A 90 lb 29" tall mal is not all its cracked up to be trust me . Makes travelling a pain when you can't find a suitable crate for your vehicle. He is not the most graceful thing either lol!


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> I don't understand the fascination with CdH dogs especially by people who want them for Ring which requires smart dogs that can think on their own. Not something CdH dogs are known for.
> 
> Yes they tend to be larger and have a bigger bite than dogs from other lines but there's so many other traits that are more important imo. They certainly have their purpose but if you look at the list of dogs from the Ring Finale in France over years you'll find very, very few CdH dogs.





Jesus Alvarez said:


> I'd take a Calvaire over a CdH any day.


 

Well personally (and since I started this thread, why not?), it's just a matter of traits. Not sure if they're a perfect fit for me or not, however asking around I've had a few people recommend Cd'H, and a few others, as dogs they thought might be a good fit for me. Kind of why I ended up with an American Bulldog. Apples & oranges, I know, however they had traits that fit my personality. Sure, a Calvaire dog might be better suited for French Ring. However, there's nothing to say a good Cd'H dog (one more in line with whatever you're looking to do with it), or similar style type of dog, might be fine for French Ring, Mondio, SchH, or whatever.



Ryan Venables said:


> I think much of it has to do with the look. But your comment is one of the reasons I said a cac x CdH would be a good combo.


 

Well, America is generally the land of bigger-is-better. And yes, they're pretty dogs . I'm not interested in their looks to be honest, and I am not a fan of huge dogs. Just some of the traits and people saying they might be a good fit for what I'm looking for. Namely they're supposed to be, generally speaking, more stable, less reactive, easier to live with in the house, yet still trainable and still able to work for protection sports. Not saying a dog from a different line or style might not be a better fit for whatever situation, and I realize some of that depends on the dog, just speaking in generalities based on what I've been told. It's just a line of dogs that's interesting and that a few people I have talked to sort of nudged me in that direction. So I'm just hoping to get out and meet some and at least get a feel for what they're like and what makes my blood rush, not just in terms of lines but in what types of dogs or traits I am drawn toward. 

-Cheers


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

That's a good plan! My pup is very reactive to people and dogs. He will not approach a person without hackles if they are at all interested in him, yet is fine approaching on his own terms. He is quite different than my female, who seems to love everybody and everything unless you are an animal (then she tries to catch/kill). They were socialised properly, treated fairly, and came out very very different.

My male is very very stubborn on the bite... Bordering on lack of control. The bite with him is never, nor will it ever be an issue. It's letting go and coming back... We are slowly working on it. But very slowly. I've heard of this problem in many CdH dogs.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Balzac looks pretty awesome to me


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


> Balzac looks pretty awesome to me


Balzac is a very cool dog. I owned his sister, and I have to say I think both of them plus their brother Cannon are smarter than their mom Lilly. Cannon is doing well so far in competition, I will be interested to see how Balzac does on a trial field when there is no leash, collar, etc. He's a lot of dog.


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## Jhun Brioso (Dec 28, 2009)

I know that this is a CdH thread but since the calvaire aux acacias bloodline is frequently mentioned, can someone share what they usually bring to the table aside from the " intelligence factor " thing??? My current male mal of 2.5 yrs old has a twist of calvaire since his dam is a direct daughter of an aux acacias dog ( Oslo ). My mali has very good amount of agression, sharp, fast & has a fair amount of prey needed for ringsport. But having said that he's the only mal that i know in my side that has a calvaire blood so i wonder if this is the usual character that this bloodline offers. Your thoughts pls.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> Balzac looks pretty awesome to me


Hey Joby, from the videos I've seen Balzac looks great. Of course, that's where personally I have to take a step away from the Kool-Aid and realize Francis is _probably_ a much, much, much, much, MUCH better trainer than I am. So I do not want to be so arrogant as to presume I could get a Balzac of my own and get the same results as Francis. And yes, I realize that sounds kinda dirty.  It does at least show that it's possible to do that kind of work with that kind of dog. Again, it does not necessarily mean I can stroll into training and do the same. It caught my interest, just seeing what kinds of Malinois the Bulldog/APBT folk gravitate toward.



Kadi Thingvall said:


> Balzac is a very cool dog. I owned his sister, and I have to say I think both of them plus their brother Cannon are smarter than their mom Lilly. Cannon is doing well so far in competition, I will be interested to see how Balzac does on a trial field when there is no leash, collar, etc. He's a lot of dog.


It should be interesting to see. I'd love to see them do well, but it would be interesting to see what Balzac is like, see him train, and see how that all translates to trialing and just the finished product. Sadly, I'm sort of stuck watching him on YouTube. Thanks for the input though, it's greatly appreciated.

-Cheers


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