# things that make a club sucessful ?



## JOE SAMSON JR (Feb 24, 2009)

what are some things that can help make a club successful ?
in short i am putting together a psa club out here and trying to get some input from people (i really don't care what the venue) who have put a club together


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Members dedicated to training helps. And trainers who know what they are doing. Biggest problem I have is people who show up thinking they will have a fully trained dog THAT DAY. When they find out this is a commitment, we never see them again...until they try dumping their out of control dog on one of us.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

JOE SAMSON JR said:


> what are some things that can help make a club successful ?
> in short i am putting together a psa club out here and trying to get some input from people (i really don't care what the venue) who have put a club together


When the membership thinks along the lines..."we are one and we suceed or fail together, there is no me"
Those clubs are very successful.


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## Karen M Wood (Jun 23, 2012)

I agree with Faisal, you need everyone to lend a hand. Not just pay their dues and be a member. 
I'm with a all breed obedience and agility club that has been going for 53 years. We average about 80 to 100 paid members. But when you get down to the bare bones the club is really run by about less then 20 members. These are the people that show up and work the trails, seminars, fix the building and equipment and run the club itself. We are always looking for people that will join and be willing to dedicate a little of their time and effort to make the whole club run smoothly. That is one of the hardest parts of having a successful club. No matter what the venue. That and the ocassional personality clashes!
Best of luck with your new club.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

I think this is where we (as Americans) fall short compared to our European friends. Every club I've to in Europe has strong club membeers who are so willing to help out everyone in training, club maintenance, hosting trials, whatever. The clubs there take it very seriously and they want everone to be successful from their club, and even from other clubs in their region. I've not seen one club here in America with the same attitude about working together as a team.


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## dewon fields (Apr 5, 2009)

Dont be afraid to cull bad apples!! They will screw up a club in a heartbeat. Also beware of people joining with hidden agendas:---). Be very careful of full time dog trainers wanting to join. Unless your a full time trainer starting a club. Seperate PP from Sport, they just don't mix. Do a background check (if possible) on treasure. If she/he has bad credit or behind on bills...RED FLAG![-X! Last but not least....make sure you have a "standard" when it comes to working dogs. Dont waste your time on freshout the dog pound,craigslist,rescue Mals/GSD/Pits/mutts with zero drive.


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

8-pack of beer penalty if anybody's dog pees on the training field.

a case if it shi**.


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## dewon fields (Apr 5, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> I think this is where we (as Americans) fall short compared to our European friends. Every club I've to in Europe has strong club membeers who are so willing to help out everyone in training, club maintenance, hosting trials, whatever. The clubs there take it very seriously and they want everone to be successful from their club, and even from other clubs in their region. I've not seen one club here in America with the same attitude about working together as a team.


 Can I get an AMEN!! I had a newbie trainer bugging me to help with his dog. I told him Sunday. He refused to train because the Dallas Cowboys were playing that Sunday. He could have recorded that game!


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

JOE SAMSON JR said:


> what are some things that can help make a club successful ?
> in short i am putting together a psa club out here and trying to get some input from people (i really don't care what the venue) who have put a club together


 
LEADERSHIP AND ORGANIZATION FIRST....members want this!


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## JOE SAMSON JR (Feb 24, 2009)

thanks for the input everybody


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

JOE SAMSON JR said:


> what are some things that can help make a club successful ?
> in short i am putting together a psa club out here and trying to get some input from people (i really don't care what the venue) who have put a club together


It has to be a team effort. A title is a team win, not an individual win. If the people are committed to each other, it makes a good team.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jody Butler said:


> LEADERSHIP AND ORGANIZATION FIRST....members want this!


Very true. Also, don't allow your desperation for good help overshadow someone's flaky personal behaviour. Even if the person is the best trainer in the world, if they are a flake or shady in their personal life, it will follow into the club sooner or later, and wreck it.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> I think this is where we (as Americans) fall short compared to our European friends. Every club I've to in Europe has strong club membeers who are so willing to help out everyone in training, club maintenance, hosting trials, whatever. The clubs there take it very seriously and they want everone to be successful from their club, and even from other clubs in their region. I've not seen one club here in America with the same attitude about working together as a team.


I wouldn't know whether it was just Europe but I do know that come trial time, we enter our names on a list to help (payment is coffee and croissants on arrival and lunch). It's interesting to be able to watch the teams working if one is a judge's helper or has time in between. Toni and I were mostly in the scoring office but we have figured as track layers, judge's helpers, dish washers, dinner servers, etc.

Most clubs are run like this in Switzerland. The club doesn't earn a lot of money even so but can earn a reputation of a club where everything runs smoothly and the participants come again, year after year and this is more important than financial win.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> I think this is where we (as Americans) fall short compared to our European friends. Every club I've to in Europe has strong club membeers who are so willing to help out everyone in training, club maintenance, hosting trials, whatever. The clubs there take it very seriously and they want everone to be successful from their club, and even from other clubs in their region. I've not seen one club here in America with the same attitude about working together as a team.


I have, but it's been the clubs that are run as a club, not a business. You run it like a business, people will treat it like a business, and themselves as clients. You run it like a club, and you get good members, it will be treated like a club. And if a club member wants to act like a client, send them to the "club" down the road. 

Similar goals are important for a club to succeed. If you have some people who are there because they just want to have fun with the dog they have, and others who are there aiming for the Worlds, it may not work. Then again, it still may, but in general similar goals will make things run smoother. Compatible personalities are also important. I didn't say the same personality, but compatible. If the club is going to be successful, you are going to be spending a lot of time with these people. If people in the group just aren't compatible, you will start to see the club suffer.

I agree with a number of other posts also about organization, dedication, etc.


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## JOE SAMSON JR (Feb 24, 2009)

Thanks again this is all great insight , and more than a few things I would have not thought of


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Couple of things, some already noted. 
1. Be a club for the sport; not for a business, not for ego, not for club breeding. There are too many like this…….
2. Always thank those who help you, just because. Publically. There are too few like this…..
3. Focus on the dog and handler. Be open to dogs from other people. People have been kicked out of clubs due to having a certain line dog or dog from other breeder. 
4. No drama people in club. No BS people.
5. Look at what works and what does not work in other clubs. Adjust to your own club. 
6. Ask what goals are, set training goals and update with everyone on consistent basis.
7. We started as a group training together and then decided to form a club. Looked at who was serious (not matter what level and experience) about learning and doing well. Even if just a BH or all the way to a top level. People come and go. Let them determine their priorities. But, that also helps determine how to focus training on those people that attend each time.
8. We do have people in the club with different goals and people recognize that. That is no issue with our group – in fact, it works better because of that.
9. Get feedback from people in club on consistent basis – make sure club is on right track.
10. Support other clubs that support you.
11. Be welcoming of visitors from out of state, long distances.
12. Train people to succeed correctly  how you handle yourself, your dog on and off the field at club and at events.
13. Do not train to cheat – who lays tracks, balls in pockets, handler help (physical and clothing – close fit “training vests”, etc)


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## Megan Berry (Jul 19, 2010)

dewon fields said:


> Dont be afraid to cull bad apples!! They will screw up a club in a heartbeat. *Also beware of people joining with hidden agendas*:---).* Be very careful of full time dog trainers wanting to join.* Unless your a full time trainer starting a club. Seperate PP from Sport, they just don't mix. Do a background check (if possible) on treasure. If she/he has bad credit or behind on bills...RED FLAG![-X! Last but not least....make sure you have a "standard" when it comes to working dogs. Dont waste your time on freshout the dog pound,craigslist,rescue Mals/GSD/Pits/mutts with zero drive.


Sometimes those two (that I bolded) go hand in hand! :evil:

Also (IMO) start small and build. Sometimes having a smaller club with the most honest, dedicated people is more important than a large member roster. You have to like & trust your core people, or the club becomes a headache!

Just my 2 cents! ;-)


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

We're with 3 in our "club", an i am not training actively 'cause the kids are still a bit to small. Concentating at your dog and watch the kids dont work, at least not for me. The highest member rate was 6/7.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jody Butler said:


> LEADERSHIP AND ORGANIZATION FIRST....members want this!


New members do want this, but it also is a recipe for disaster in the long term if only one person does everything. When club members continue to never step up to the plate it is always at the expense of a few or one key person(s) when members just expect it. Unless the club is run as a business that you pay real money, above the price of club dues. I would never expect one person to buy the sleeve covers, dry clean the suit, buy the beer, cut the grass, clean the gun, come up with training solutions, etc etc. 

I am getting out of a situation now where 60%+ of the members of the club were under that expectation, it didn't last. Especially when the 60%+ decided enough was enough as they were not getting their money's worth for the $250 they paid for the year, as the blinds were not up or the grass wasn't cut, or the TD was off doing seminars. These people who went under the muse that everything was going to be done for them and that their hands were going to be held forever, had a rude awakening. They would never show up to help install the blinds or cut the grass, they would just show up when they needed their personal bite puppet to perform magic tricks for them. #-o 

I do think that yes people need leadership and organization, but in a club situation there has to be more than just that. For me clear communication and clear understanding of everyone's role of what is required from the greenest of members to the most experienced of trainers in any club so that there is no false expectations from all members of any club. As when there is an agenda or a lack of teamwork it isn't a club, it is a free for all and you might as well train alone.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> New members do want this, but it also is a recipe for disaster in the long term if only one person does everything. When club members continue to never step up to the plate it is always at the expense of a few or one key person(s) when members just expect it. Unless the club is run as a business that you pay real money, above the price of club dues. I would never expect one person to buy the sleeve covers, dry clean the suit, buy the beer, cut the grass, clean the gun, come up with training solutions, etc etc.
> 
> I am getting out of a situation now where 60%+ of the members of the club were under that expectation, it didn't last. Especially when the 60%+ decided enough was enough as they were not getting their money's worth for the $250 they paid for the year, as the blinds were not up or the grass wasn't cut, or the TD was off doing seminars. These people who went under the muse that everything was going to be done for them and that their hands were going to be held forever, had a rude awakening. They would never show up to help install the blinds or cut the grass, they would just show up when they needed their personal bite puppet to perform magic tricks for them. #-o
> 
> I do think that yes people need leadership and organization, but in a club situation there has to be more than just that. For me clear communication and clear understanding of everyone's role of what is required from the greenest of members to the most experienced of trainers in any club so that there is no false expectations from all members of any club. As when there is an agenda or a lack of teamwork it isn't a club, it is a free for all and you might as well train alone.


 
Leadership and Organization is a broad and general term I used, however it is the foundation to anything successful. I do agree with your comments as well, its how that Leadership and Organization is used to draw members in and WANT to be there and support as well as share goals, etc. Makes people want to belong and proud


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Joe try FUN and it works well in FUNction!

If everyone is walking on eggshells in training and not having fun, how can you get anything done? If it isn't fun for the dog, will it want to work? I say keep if fun, help newbiew learn without passing judgement, showcase the good and the bad so visual learners can have a reference point in both venues...


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jody Butler said:


> Leadership and Organization is a broad and general term I used, however it is the foundation to anything successful. I do agree with your comments as well, its how that Leadership and Organization is used to draw members in and WANT to be there and support as well as share goals, etc. Makes people want to belong and proud


Yeah I agree Jody, I've seen a lot of variation of people's wants in this era of McDonalds where they just wrap up the hamburger and throw it at you. People want that 'fast food service' and the reality of a 'functional' club is just so far removed from that mentality. What people can not get individually, can achieve collectively in a club. That's if they agree with and fulfill their place in the collective role of a club as well as always having their minds open to change. Sounds simple but it is hard for many people's characters and egos. Not just talking about green people but of people with experience too. 

Just because a person is the leader or founds a club still doesn't mean that they are always right. Mix that in with others expectations. You get an ever changing club dynamic. 

Face it most people can be jealous and selfish, people can be shifty and some people are downright flakes. By the time you figure it out it is usually to late, people like that can destroy the working ambiance of a club fast.


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

The best way to have a good club is to make it a buisiness. When people pay money they just seem to try harder. If its cheap or free people just come to expect it that way.
Regular club dues never cover the cost of keeping stuff trial ready.


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## Britney Pelletier (Mar 5, 2009)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> The best way to have a good club is to make it a buisiness. When people pay money they just seem to try harder. If its cheap or free people just come to expect it that way.
> Regular club dues never cover the cost of keeping stuff trial ready.



Couldn't agree with you more, actually.. 

I've experienced it first hand both ways, and from what I have seen and been a part of, people are far more committed when they have some sort of financial obligation to the club. The most functional, successful and ultimately most fun clubs I have ever seen or been a part of where very structured and required a fair bit of financial expense of the members.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Most times people who say it should be ran as a business make a buck at it somewhere...single biggest problem with the sport today is the money involved....


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I don't know Keith even if someone makes a buck at it or not, it's not really a bad thing. Having money involved does bring out the seriousness and an expectation of something tangible of value. I have no problem to pay someone to help me, if they actually help my dogs achieve what I can't do on my own or offer something that will help my dog that someone else can not do. 

I think it is a myth that you get something for nothing. I know it would be great if all clubs charged nothing and the field was always mowed, fences always painted and blinds never needed repair. But that isn't the reality. Let alone having a national select helper that needs helper equipment and an experienced handler that has won regionals and placed high at nationals, that coaches everyone. Those guys/gals spent lots of money to get where they are, it's no trivial matter to get that type of experience in any of the sports we do. It is worth money! That's why guys like Ivan B, Micheal, Bart B and many others make a living by sharing that experience. So why wouldn't it be any different at a competitive club level?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> The best way to have a good club is to make it a buisiness. When people pay money they just seem to try harder. If its cheap or free people just come to expect it that way.


When it's a business though, the people are clients. When I take my car to the mechanic I don't expect to help him change the oil, hand him tools, help vacumn out another clients car, etc. Same for a "club" that is actually a business, yes when people are paying more money it tends to weed out those who aren't serious, or at least weed out those who can't afford it. But it also brings in people who are clients, and expect to act as a client. IE show up, train their dog, and leave. It can't be a business when it comes to the money, and a club when it comes to what is expected of the clients.



> Regular club dues never cover the cost of keeping stuff trial ready.


They can, if the club wants them to.



Keith Jenkins said:


> Most times people who say it should be ran as a business make a buck at it somewhere...single biggest problem with the sport today is the money involved....


I agree. The business model is not going to grow the sports the way the club will, it prices the training out of reach of many people. People who might have other things to give (time, energy, experience, etc) but don't have the money.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> People who might have other things to give (time, energy, experience, etc) but don't have the money.



It's been my experience, that type of person is in shorter supply than those with enough money to pay dues. 

DFrost


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I agree with Kadi although I also agree that there is a type that only values what they spend a lot of money for. I figure you can leave the business model to the seminar format which has lot of value and hopely maintain a club system with stringent participation requirements.

T


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Clubs HAVE to make some money for equipment, field seed and fertilizer, rent, and other upkeep needs. To ask everyone to chip in...then it becomes a game of who and how to collect! If it takes a business approach and the management end is targeted for the "good of the cause" I have no heartburn with that...


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

You are correct as well Kadi. Business is business and business gets in the way of friendship exactly the way you described. I know a few trainers that expect you to work their dogs or drive them all over the place, then offer nothing in return not even a thank you. It's a 2 way street, and don't expect to be considered a professional if you are going to work peoples dogs in a park with no blinds, jumps and equipment. I have no problem paying someone for sure but it is a slippery slope the business end of it when friendships are involved. If it is a club you collectively build those things that you need to train. The physical things like equipment, blinds, jumps etc. If you want to run it as a business sure no problem but treat it like that, and be professional.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

David Frost said:


> It's been my experience, that type of person is in shorter supply than those with enough money to pay dues.


I agree, but I have met a number of them over the years, in the clubs I've been in I'd say 20% of the membership was this type of person. And the ones that were, were willing to work their butts off to help out in any way they can.



Howard Gaines III said:


> Clubs HAVE to make some money for equipment, field seed and fertilizer, rent, and other upkeep needs. To ask everyone to chip in...then it becomes a game of who and how to collect! If it takes a business approach and the management end is targeted for the "good of the cause" I have no heartburn with that...


I guess I should clarify that to me a business is when the money is going into the pockets of one or two people. A club can be collecting dues, but the money is going into a central account that the club controls. IE the money is used for equipment, holding events, whatever. But the club votes on how the money is used, there is a treasurer tracking it, giving the club feedback in what is in the account, etc. In this scenario there is no reason the club shouldn't charge monthly dues to cover expenses, but it's club money, not an individual(s) money.


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## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

I highly recommend doing a background check. I know of a club that had a member of who was on "To Catch a Predator" shows. Once that was learned, they kicked him out of the club, especially since they had some younger members in the club. I'm not talking about a full blown criminal investigation but at least Google them. Another thing is thick skin. Most of the mistakes in dog training happen on the two legged end of the leash. So when the trainer tells you that you did something wrong, don't take it personally. Everyone makes mistakes and probably the same ones you did and probably worse than you did. But one of the biggest distractions for a club is DRAMA. Good Lord there are some drama queens out there! Don't bring your drama to the training field. It's infectious and does nothing positive for club.


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## JOE SAMSON JR (Feb 24, 2009)

A ton of good advice , we do not need to make money from the club . A small group of experienced people looking to train hard no matter which dog or what stage and a couple of us who will do all we can to contribute from buying a suit to going to classes or seminars to get the experience that's where we are so far. Truth is if this is not fun I won't be a part I do this because I like spending time with my dog and family involved and its friendly competition for us. Thanks to all who took the time to share your experience it has given me plenty to think on


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Daniel Lybbert said:


> The best way to have a good club is to make it a buisiness. When people pay money they just seem to try harder. If its cheap or free people just come to expect it that way.
> Regular club dues never cover the cost of keeping stuff trial ready.


and like every GOOD SUCCESSFUL Buisness, Leadership and Organization is the foundation. And I don't mean someone in charge at the top, thats not Leadership at all...


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## kenneth roth (Jul 29, 2010)

JOE SAMSON JR said:


> what are some things that can help make a club successful ?
> in short i am putting together a psa club out here and trying to get some input from people (i really don't care what the venue) who have put a club together


My comment is off topic but the nearist psa club for me is 3 hour drive I am up for a closer club :grin:


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## JOE SAMSON JR (Feb 24, 2009)

yea a little off topic , i see your from northern California your more than welcome to come check out what we have going on Wednesday nights or Sundays


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

Things that make a club successful ?


*BEER.*


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