# Corrections



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Which do you feel is most useful, guided corrections or natural ones? I see guided as handler/trainer generated and natural as dog discovery.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Is your goal a good house dog is your goal a competition ready dog?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Aw, Ben! Don't be so patronising! It doesn't befit you!

Howard, depends, natural corrections tend to occur with or without your knowing. They could be beneficial or not?

The others are calculated.


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## Sanda Stankovic (Jan 10, 2009)

Would natural one be more benefit driven (for the dog)?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Sandra, if I'm reading you correctly, they could. I think here, someone has to spell it out for me first!


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Aw, Ben! Don't be so patronising! It doesn't befit you!
> 
> Howard, depends, natural corrections tend to occur with or without your knowing. They could be beneficial or not?
> 
> The others are calculated.


What does this mean?

I was asking a serious question. Corrections have a much different place when you are raising a house dog than when you are raising a sport dog.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Actually, with your sweeping statement of "I have a Sport Dog" I don't go for walks with it and others here don't do it either (or words to that effect) you more or less made it apparent what sort of a handler you are but as you ask "what does this mean?", I'll ask you to be more explicit:

Why do you consider corrections for the house dog to be so different from those for the sport dog?

I would actually have assumed on a "working dog forum" that the corrections were for the sport dog myself.

So let's hear what you think about the difference.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Actually, with your sweeping statement of "I have a Sport Dog" I don't go for walks with it and others here don't do it either (or words to that effect) you more or less made it apparent what sort of a handler you are but as you ask "what does this mean?", I'll ask you to be more explicit:
> 
> Why do you consider corrections for the house dog to be so different from those for the sport dog?
> 
> ...


Gillian,

Your apparent animosity is confusing. I don't take my dog on walks. He doesn't need walks as he gets enough excersie during my multiple training sessions a day and his free time around the house. This allows me to better manage his environment. I don't have to worry about him barking at dogs, him getting into scraps, people getting in his face etc. Maybe you train your do differently. That's fine. I don't understand how that tells you what kind of handler I am and fosters that holier than thou attitude.

As far as corrections go, I would correct a house dog for things I would never correct a sport dog for. An example of this may be jumping on strangers. My house dog needs to know "four on the floor" at all times. My sport dog on the other hand is crated when strangers come to the door and thus neer jumps and is never corrected for jumping. I'm a bit confused by what the OP means by natural corrections. The only corrections my sport dog gets tend to come from me because once again, I manage his behavior much tighter than I may do with a pet dog.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Ben, that wasn't animosity, by any means. If you don't walk your dog, then you shouldn't assume others don't either.

You obviously keep your dogs differently from the way I do. I can assure you though that my "house-trained" dogs who have to accept who I let enter the house are in no way hindered by this on the training field, on the contrary. A dog that just knows the training field and dog pen isn't necessarily the better trained dog.

Howard was asking about the difference between "natural" and "guided" corrections and not house dog corrections as opposed to working dog ones.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I guess Howard means natural corrections to be those where the dogs learn from their own mistakes.
You see it in Schutzdienst or maybe tracking.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Ben Colbert said:


> Is your goal a good house dog is your goal a competition ready dog?


 No goals, just a question. None are house dogs...


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Gillian Schuler said:


> I guess Howard means natural corrections to be those where the dogs learn from their own mistakes.
> You see it in Schutzdienst or maybe tracking.


Oh you are so good! I see a dog as a dog. Venue doesn't matter to me and the question is one that hasn't been posted b/c I haven't a clue...All dogs must come under the same direction of the owner. A house pet is as much of a liability as a sport dog. Bites and scratches can cost you in court.

My question was created with a tracking mindset, other applications could be used. I think when a dog is "created," you offer guided corrections and not let them build their own mistakes, from things like false avoidance or to an enviromental issue.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Can you guys give me a specific example of a natural vs handler correction during tracking?

I assume a handler correction would be a pop for dog lifting its head or for hesitating at the article.

What would a natural correction be?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Ben, nice to see you staying on the track :smile: OT, I've grown allergic to some handlers who have dogs that are merely Sport Apparatus. Maybe you're not one.

Howard, when you say you "create" a dog, do you mean you train a dog to track how you want it to and the guided corrections are not allowing him to make a mistake such as weaving (especially at corners) or indicating articles too soon or not at all?? Reducing speed?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Yep! You control the dog as if "joy stick" training. In the classroom you would lead questions into the area you want kids to "discover." Guided in K-9 was a similar thought, gentle directional focus to how the track or behavior will be done. 

Yank and crank "says" <pop> with the long line and barking commands. Natural corrections gives the dog LOTS of room to scent and move, the reward being the animal returns to the scent and article/food at the end. Natural OB would be the dog making the adjustments and is rewarded at the time of proper placement to the handler.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

As I see it you mean natural corrections, you let the dog "roam" from the track to a certain extent and his reward is coming back on to the trackof his own free will? A lot of trainers give the dog 1 1/2 metres leash freedom, stem him from behind to prevent his turning round and praise him when he finds food on the track.

I'm still not quite with you but I like a dog that has learnt to track under my guidance but that has the assurance that he is leading me. It needs quite a bit of confidence on both sides, dog and handler.

There is no real reason for a well trained tracking dog to leave the track and here it is in my mind safe to issue corrections if it does but at this stage, usually, a "hey, what the heck" could suffice.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Gillian Schuler said:


> As I see it you mean natural corrections, you let the dog "roam" from the track to a certain extent and his reward is coming back on to the trackof his own free will? A lot of trainers give the dog 1 1/2 metres leash freedom, stem him from behind to prevent his turning round and praise him when he finds food on the track.
> 
> I'm still not quite with you but I like a dog that has learnt to track under my guidance but that has the assurance that he is leading me. It needs quite a bit of confidence on both sides, dog and handler.
> 
> There is no real reason for a well trained tracking dog to leave the track and here it is in my mind safe to issue corrections if it does but at this stage, usually, a "hey, what the heck" could suffice.


I have heard or read somewhere that when you start proofing tracking you actually will want to jump off the track with a huge pace and go a different direction to hang up the dog so he learns to work through any weird shiza that may come up. The dog learns that he will be rewarded and not to quit- builds determination/drive etc.

Is this what your talking about Howard?


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