# Breeding the dog or the lineage



## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

The thread about Malinois studs made me wonder as to how many people give any thought to the lineages when breeding as opposed to just the dogs they have in front of them.

I recently stumbled upon a ped of a Mal that had 6 different lines going back only 6 generations. It was a melting pot of Boscaille, Deux Pottois, Loups Moutins, Muizenbos and I can't remember the last one. I've never seen the dog and don't know anything about it other than the ped I saw. 

There are lines that complement each other while others don't mix well at all but with so many different lineages mixed together how can there be any consistency in the offsprings? Is this the norm from people breeding Mals in the US?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

A good breeder does both. Plus you have to look like at what the pedigree says, and what the pedigree is :-#

Something else to keep in mind, a number of kennel names doesn't neccessarily mean a dog isn't linebred, there are many kennels doing breedings on the same basic dogs. You find many European dogs with pedigrees similar to what you described, it's not just here in the US.

I just grabbed a dog, but look at the pedigree for Top Gun des Plaines de Theirache, a Coupe winner twice, and 2nd place twice. 9 kennel names in the first 3 generations. Go back to a 4th generation and you can add 7 more kennel names. And this is the first dog I looked up, that I literally just randomly grabbed, I didn't go searching for a rarity to make a point 
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs_details.php?id=6733&new_lan_en


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> A good breeder does both. Plus you have to look like at what the pedigree says, and what the pedigree is :-#
> 
> Something else to keep in mind, a number of kennel names doesn't neccessarily mean a dog isn't linebred, there are many kennels doing breedings on the same basic dogs. You find many European dogs with pedigrees similar to what you described, it's not just here in the US.
> 
> ...


The last lineage that I couldn't remember, for the dog I referred to, was Perle de Tourbière. 

I'm aware of the differences between just a kennel name and a line of dogs. There are distinct differences between the dogs from Deux Pottois, Boscaille, PT, etc,. and they were started using different dogs.

I know what you're saying though Kadi about some lines going back to and same dogs. Thanks for answering.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> A good breeder does both. Plus you have to look like at what the pedigree says, and what the pedigree is :-#


Exactly!

Both the lineage and the quality of the individual dog have to be there and are equally important.
A mediocre quality dog with a nice pedigree shouldn't be used.
Good dog from non proven lines is something else. If the dog is really exceptional, it could be done, but the outcome will be a big question mark.

Taking exceptional individuals from strong lines will increase the chances for success but still there is no guarantee.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Martine Loots said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Both the lineage and the quality of the individual dog have to be there and are equally important.
> A mediocre quality dog with a nice pedigree shouldn't be used.
> ...


I concur 150%


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Martine Loots said:


> Taking exceptional individuals from strong lines will increase the chances for success but still there is no guarantee.


You've done very well with that Martine. A'tim seemed to reproduce himself really well. 

Was he one of those dogs that produced well regardless of what the female was lineage wise?


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jesus Alvarez said:


> I'm aware of the differences between just a kennel name and a line of dogs. There are distinct differences between the dogs from Deux Pottois, Boscaille, PT, etc,. and they were started using different dogs.


I know, but even in the pedigree I posted there are a number of different lines, Loups Mutin, Deux Pottois, Fontaine du Buis, Noaillerie, Boscaille, etc. 

You can find some very tightly line/inbred Malinois, but in general the pedigrees are going to be more open than most bulldog pedigrees. Knowing you are a bulldog guy, I'm guessing that's part of what prompted the question?


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## Jesus Alvarez (Feb 6, 2009)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I know, but even in the pedigree I posted there are a number of different lines, Loups Mutin, Deux Pottois, Fontaine du Buis, Noaillerie, Boscaille, etc.
> 
> You can find some very tightly line/inbred Malinois, but in general the pedigrees are going to be more open than most bulldog pedigrees. Knowing you are a bulldog guy, I'm guessing that's part of what prompted the question?


Yes, it's not something I'm accustomed too seeing so I was curious as to how it that effects selection.
The better AB breeders do line breed but there are many, many more that don't.


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