# Peeing in Crate



## Carlo Hernandez (Aug 30, 2008)

Hello,

My GSD pup was doing very good with crate training. No accidents at all...but for the last week he is all of a sudden peeing in his cage all the time? He is going to vet this week, but thought I would ask now. Any ideas why?????

He is is 14 weeks old and goes out every 2 to 3 hours. At night 4 hours. I cut his water off about 7 to 8 pm. 

Now, we leave him for about an hour and a half, and huge puddle. We started taking him out every hour, but he is now peeing in his cage regularly. I know they say once they go in their cage they think its okay...is that my probelm here??? We cant even leave for 2 hours anymore and come back with a puddle. Even with little to no water, theres a puddle in his crate. I will tell the vet this week, but do you think he has a urinary problem now? He is on raw, following the Leerburg puppy diet and adding variety. Should I be concerned? Out of the crate he is fine, lays next to me chewing his bone or playing.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Carlo Hernandez said:


> Hello,
> 
> My GSD pup was doing very good with crate training. No accidents at all...but for the last week he is all of a sudden peeing in his cage all the time? He is going to vet this week, but thought I would ask now. Any ideas why?????
> 
> ...


I would get a clean catch the morning of the vet visit, preferably the first pee of the day, and take it along.

PM me if you don't know "clean catch."

If he has a UTI, it will probably be simple to treat, and if you post the name of the antibiotic, we can help you with replacing intestinal flora/fauna that the antibiotic will kill along with the infection bacteria.

I would encourage water and take him out every hour if at all possible until the vet visit because if he does have a UTI, the last thing you want to do is concentrate his urine by withholding water. In fact, you want to "flush" it, making his urine pale and plentiful.

If this had been ongoing from Day 1, I'd ask you to keep him outside longer each trip to empty the bladder better, etc., etc., but since you have seen a sudden change, UTI is my first thought. (I'd also give you links to boards more suited to potty-training issues, but this sounds like a health question at this point.)

JMO.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Carlo Hernandez said:


> He is is 14 weeks old and goes out every 2 to 3 hours. At night 4 hours. I cut his water off about 7 to 8 pm.


This may not be a health issue, maybe it is but.. a 14 week old pup can piss about every 15 minutes if they choose to.

Save the money on the vet check and get off your ass and let the pup out more, Jesus..every 2-3 hours, puts a new meaning to Sofa King Wee Oh Todd.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry, I missed the 2-3 hours.

I saw this: _"We started taking him out every hour, but he is now peeing in his cage regularly," _and not the part you caught.


p.s.
Still, drop off a specimen because of the change in urinating habits.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> This may not be a health issue, maybe it is but.. a 14 week old pup can piss about every 15 minutes if they choose to.
> 
> Save the money on the vet check and get off your ass and let the pup out more, Jesus..every 2-3 hours, puts a new meaning to Sofa King Wee Oh Todd.


 
I don't agree at all, a small pup should be able and willing to hold it for at least 2 to 3 hours. I have had pups as young as nine weeks learn to stay clean for 8+ hours when I am at work, With access to water in their crate. Not optimum but it can be done, set schedule is key.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Kyle Sprag said:


> I don't agree at all, a small pup should be able and willing to hold it for at least 2 to 3 hours. I have had pups as young as nine weeks learn to stay clean for 8+ hours when I am at work, With access to water in their crate. Not optimum but it can be done, set schedule is key.


Glad it works for you.

Young pups should be able to relieve themselves whenever necessary, and they will.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

They can Kyle. Mine never pee when shipping at 8 weeks....only for a very occassional reason. Your doing it on a regular basis and the pups has decided screw it, I gotta pee. At 8 weeks I have watched them and they pee about every 20 to 30 min on the yard. It isn't good for them even if they "can" do it. How would you like to just get to pee once a day? That would be about the same thing.
I had a guy inquire about a pup the day before yesterday. In the course of the conversation he asked about the proper way to crate train. I asked him what he meant by crate training. He said keeping them in a crate while they were at work. I had to ask him what he really thought he was training aside from neurotic behavior. Told him he would have to get a dog elsewhere.


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## Carlo Hernandez (Aug 30, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Save the money on the vet check and get off your ass and let the pup out more, Jesus..every 2-3 hours, puts a new meaning to Sofa King Wee Oh Todd.



Its his scheduled vet check for his vaccines. When we first got him we were taking him out every half hour to an hour. But eventually he started holding his pee longer and was consistent. Then all of a sudden he was peeing in his cage, thats is why I am concerned. Thanks for your post...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Kyle Sprag said:


> ..... I have had pups as young as nine weeks learn to stay clean for 8+ hours when I am at work ....


8 hours without urinating at 9 weeks?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

There is nothing good about a pup holding it regularly for 8 hours. 

What I mentioned earlier about keeping urine pale and unconcentrated and keeping it flushing through -- this is what that small bladder (any bladder) needs.

Water in and water out. This is the best defense against bladder crystals, infections, and stones, and kidney problems.

JMO, but even my adult (smaller) dogs would have a dog-walker stop by halfway through the day if I had to leave them for 8 hours at a stretch.

You may not know that a very common mechanism of the start of a UTI is when the normal external bacteria around the urethral opening is not flushed away regularly, and instead is given the opportunity both to multiply and to travel up the urethra and into the bladder, and even into the kidneys.

It's not a good habit for the dog to have to form.



p.s. There is such a thing as inappropriately dilute urine, but that's a completely unrelated topic.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Carlo Hernandez said:


> Its his scheduled vet check for his vaccines. When we first got him we were taking him out every half hour to an hour. But eventually he started holding his pee longer and was consistent. Then all of a sudden he was peeing in his cage, thats is why I am concerned. Thanks for your post...


This kind of change calls for a urinalysis and culture.

A clean catch is catching the flow after it starts so the bacteria around the opening are flushed away and not confused in the analysis with any bacteria actually in the bladder or other area of the urinary tract.

Also, and this is JMO, I'd try very hard to get the dog out as often as he needed it because of what you mentioned: the habit being formed of going in the crate. Whether or not the dog has a UTI, I'd back up the crate-training to Square 1, and make sure the dog is outdoors every time he has to be, and keeping him out for long enough so that even if he is saving it for multiple events, he still empties his bladder.


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## Vendo Vincent (May 15, 2009)

Given that everything is fine with your dog. Would anyone agree that maybe this is a dominance issue. The pup is saying - I don't like the creat. And every time I pee in it you let me out and clean it for me> If you let me out I stay next to you an behave. Others might have a solution for you. 

I could be wrong.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Vendo Vincent said:


> Given that everything is fine with your dog. Would anyone agree that maybe this is a dominance issue. .... The pup is saying - I don't like the creat. And every time I pee in it you let me out and clean it for me



No.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Just because a 9 wk old pup can hold it for 8 hours is absolutely no reason to expect it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Just because a 9 wk old pup can hold it for 8 hours is absolutely no reason to expect it.


Well put.


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## Vendo Vincent (May 15, 2009)

Carlo Hernandez said:


> Hello,
> 
> Out of the crate he is fine, lays next to me chewing his bone or playing.


How long befor he has to go. When out side laying next to you. 1/2 hr 1hr 2 or 3?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> No.


 
Double NO!

There is no reason on earth why a dominant pup will intentially pee in a crate. 
It's a training or health issue. 

Also it doesn't matter "how long before he has to go". With a 9 wk old pup it's the owner's responsability to take the pup out on a VERY regular time schedule. 
At that age I'd still be taking a pup out every 15-20 mins.
I would also add that if this is a training issue it might be better addressed on a pet forum.


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## Vendo Vincent (May 15, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Double NO!
> 
> There is no reason on earth why a dominant pup will intentially pee in a crate.
> It's a training or health issue.


I originaly posted providing everything is fine medicaly. And I agree that it is a training issue. My train of thought is that. The dog went one day in the creat, they cleaned it up let it out. Its a smart dog it tries it again and again. So yes I agree with you 100 percent If it is not medical that it is training. The pup has trained them.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Vendo Vincent said:


> ..... So yes I agree with you 100 percent If it is not medical that it is training. The pup has trained them.



You are kidding, right?


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## Vendo Vincent (May 15, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> You are kidding, right?


OK step back a bit. I do not want to get every ones nikers in a knot. Original posted - the owner states that out side of the crate the pup is fine. But in the crate 1/2 hr then here he wets in the crate. 

You could be right , it could be medical. But if it is medical why dose the pup seem to hold it in fine when out?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> This kind of change calls for a urinalysis and culture.
> 
> A clean catch is catching the flow after it starts so the bacteria around the opening are flushed away and not confused in the analysis with any bacteria actually in the bladder or other area of the urinary tract.


Carlo, if the vet finds a UTI or other health problem, start another thread, and we'll give you some probiotic and other help to go with the med the vet prescribes.

If the urinalysis and culture (I would ask for both) are clear and you want some suggestions and URLs for backing up and refreshing the housetraining, just PM me.


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