# Best "Protection" Dog as a Deterrant



## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

A friend of mine at vet school (a single gal in her early/mid 20s) lives in a duplex where the neighbor's duplex got broken into. She doesn't really want to buy a gun or a real high powered trained protection dog, but she is interested in getting a dog just as a deterrent so she can go on walks with and alert bark for intruders. I told her a nice black lab from a shelter would probably do fine as most people are naturally more scared of large dark colored dogs, even if it's not a "protection" breed. This got me thinking...say you were on a walk in a not great area at dusk or you didn't live in the best neighborhood. What breed would be the best visual deterrent, ignoring their actual abilities to protect?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Rottweiler. In most case the reputation alone is enough. Countless people cross the street rather than pass us on a walk. And this is with a perfectly controlled rottie who is walking calmly on a loose lead.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

How'd this do?














Andy.


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## Kris Finison (Nov 26, 2007)

Andy, 
I have a Caucasian Ovcharka and I will say that many people (at least here in the US) see a big fluffy dog and assume it's friendly. Now, my bitch has been very well socialized, but people do some VERY stupid things when approaching her... like coming up from behind without saying anything, leaning over the top of her, making eyes contact and trying to stare her down, etc. 
The thing is not only does her appearance seem to attract people, but they also are very defensive and have a short trigger, meaning they are not always going to give a lot of warning. IMO a DETERRENT is a dog that prevents and incident from happening. While a CO will protect you, I think there are plenty of other breeds that are better personal protection deterrents by giving more warning.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Very few people people in the world know about this Caucasian dog not sure it even belongs here. That would be another thread. 
A Rottweiler Or a German Shepherd have a reputation that most recognize.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Kris Finison said:


> Andy,
> I have a Caucasian Ovcharka and I will say that many people (at least here in the US) see a big fluffy dog and assume it's friendly. Now, my bitch has been very well socialized, but people do some VERY stupid things when approaching her... like coming up from behind without saying anything, leaning over the top of her, making eyes contact and trying to stare her down, etc.
> The thing is not only does her appearance seem to attract people, but they also are very defensive and have a short trigger, meaning they are not always going to give a lot of warning. IMO a DETERRENT is a dog that prevents and incident from happening. While a CO will protect you, I think there are plenty of other breeds that are better personal protection deterrents by giving more warning.


Kris, I think you're right on. A friend of mine has a Newfoundland (a very mellow dog who's a certified therapy dog) and a livestock guardian Great Pyrenees who is fairly calm, but with a sharp side to her. People will want to pet the big fluffy white Pyrenees, who doesn't really like it much, but be afraid of the big fluffy black Newf just on color alone. 

Public perception is pretty strong. I've always wanted a wolfhound or deerhound, but I've heard a surprising number people are scared of them, not just on size, but how many movies has there been set in the medieval period where there's a "release the hounds!" scene and they've been deerhounds or wolfhounds? The only "problem" with German shepherds is that even though the public sees them as "police dogs," their popularity breeds familiarity...which breeds contempt? I dunno. How many people come up to you with a GSD and are like "oh, I used to have one when I was younger (or whatever)!" I think Rotties might have a little more deterrent power than GSDs, but just my experience.

Andy, I'll see your CO and raise you a MaliGSD! :wink:


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I agree with Mike, Rottie or GSD


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Yeah, the photo was joke. Just forgot the :wink:. lol



Andy.


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

I'd have to say Rottie or Pitbull. Even though the PB is not a good protection dog, just the appearance/reputation will work on the stupid people. A Cane Corso/Presa would look like a BIG PB to lotsa people too.


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## Katie Schifferli (Oct 17, 2007)

I know I've had Mother's pull their children from the sidewalk, and plenty of people back up and move away from my PO-lice dog (and this was when he was only 7 months old)...I can't even count how many times I've been asked if that dog is a K-9...like that's it's own breed of dog. 

Here's my vote for the GSD, BUT I think a sable dog is more likely to be perceived as a threat than your Rin-tin-tin black and tan.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sable, black, bi, saddleback GSD in that order or a Rottie.
Pits, in my old neighborhood, were toys for the "kids" to "play" with. :evil:


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I asked Maren's question to a few people who know nothing at all about protection breeds.

Doberman came up a few times. As did Rottie, GSD. Most average people have no concept of what dogs would actually do better as a protection breed.

Also mentioned by the un dog savy folks I asked was they would be afraid of any dog that was "seemingly" trained to "sic". Some barking directed at them on command would be scary, from any one of the protection breeds.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Visual deterrent is al the "protection" that 99.9% of the general public needs. Most don't understand/can't handle what's necessary to work with a true PPD.
Even the bark isn't needed for "most" idiots out there. A good stare from a GSD or Rottie will deter most of them. 
When I was a kid (50s) a Dobe was a very impressive deterrent. Unfortunately today most are nice "family pets". Doesn't mean the wouldn't work for that visual deterrent though.
Not a stab at the Dobe folks here. I suspect they would agree about the "average" Dobe today just as with the "average" GSD or Rottie.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Visual deterrent is al the "protection" that 99.9% of the general public needs. Most don't understand/can't handle what's necessary to work with a true PPD.
> Even the bark isn't needed for "most" idiots out there. A good stare from a GSD or Rottie will deter most of them.
> When I was a kid (50s) a Dobe was a very impressive deterrent. Unfortunately today most are nice "family pets". Doesn't mean the wouldn't work for that visual deterrent though.
> Not a stab at the Dobe folks here. I suspect they would agree about the "average" Dobe today just as with the "average" GSD or Rottie.


I was surprised to hear the Dobe come up in my friends and families responses as well. I think they just don't see many as pets around here, where as many folks have GSD and Rotties as pets (around here). The cropped ears have someting to do with it too I think. Movies too perhaps.

I was just passing along what the "public" thinks of them. I get the impression that Maren's friend did not have any intention of "training" a protection dog, just wanted a visual deterent.


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> A friend of mine at vet school (a single gal in her early/mid 20s) lives in a duplex where the neighbor's duplex got broken into. She doesn't really want to buy a gun or a real high powered trained protection dog, but she is interested in getting a dog just as a deterrent so she can go on walks with and alert bark for intruders. I told her a nice black lab from a shelter would probably do fine as most people are naturally more scared of large dark colored dogs, even if it's not a "protection" breed. This got me thinking...say you were on a walk in a not great area at dusk or you didn't live in the best neighborhood. What breed would be the best visual deterrent, ignoring their actual abilities to protect?


I would never suggest a lab, that is the fastest way to get her hurt. A hiker in Atlanta that was killed was hiking with a lab. An untrained weak dog is your worst enemy. I say she should get a rottweiler othey are fearless, oblivious to pain and will give their life for her). If she wants something smaller with lots of energy, I would go with a malinois, GSD, a doberman or a bouvier. Personal protection is nothing to play with. I need my protector to take a man down if need be and willing to give his life for mine. I own two intact male dogs...a rottweiler and a cane corso.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Mari, if she was interested in a fully trained personal protection dog, yes, absolutely a Mal, GSD, Dutchie, Rottie, etc would be the way to go. But like I said and Jennifer correctly noted, she is interested in neither a gun nor a formal PPD, just a visual deterrent with a loud alert bark. Was this the story about the hiker in Atlanta?

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/03/22/hilton_0323.html

If she would have had a Malinois or Dutchie or whatever, would that have saved her life? Maybe, maybe not. Sounds like she came pretty close to hurting him badly enough to escape. Anyways, even a fully trained Rottie or a Cane Corso is no guarantee of protection and anyone serious about PPDs is (or should be) well aware of this.

Still, deterrent on its own is pretty powerful. I had almost forgotten about this, but several days ago, I was walking the trails in town with my 3 shepherds (2 Mals, 1 Mal/GSD mix, like in the picture on the previous page). They were off leash and splashing in a big mud puddle about 30 yards behind me. 3 older teenage boys wearing combat boots, black shirts, and fatigues came towards me as I walked around the bend near the trail head. I have no idea why they were in the off leash part of the trail, but they were obviously trying to look tough (maybe go off and do drugs in the woods? Who knows?) and they hadn't seen my dogs yet. So I called out, "Zoso, Fawkes, pas auf!" and clapped my hands. All three came running for me chasing after each other snarling and snarking at each other as only Malinois can do. They ran within about 3 yards of the teenagers and the look of "oh ****, they're gonna get us!" couldn't have been more clear on their faces. I just smirked when all three dogs came up to me in a sit. :mrgreen: Still, it reminds me I should remember to carry my larger pocket knife with me when I'm by myself hiking.


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## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

I vote for the GSD as well, although its like people love them or hate them. Sometimes people think GSD's are just fluffy cuddlebugs, and others are scared of the "K9". I do agree a sable (OMG its a wolf) GSD would be a great detterent, and if not the darker the better in terms of blanket/saddleback. 

I cant even count how many times I've been asked if that was a K9! No its a turtle...WTH??


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

When my Rottie was 11mo old, my wife was walking with him when an idiot drove along the side of the road and tried to talk to her... "how was your x-mas" etc.. Then he asks if the dog is friendly and she says "Yes" Then he asked if he could pet him and she said no and started to walk down another street. 

This ahole pulls ahead and gets out of the car. My boy goes to the end of the leash and gives el jerko that classic Rottie ice cold stare. My wife yells at this guy to leave. "My husband trains dogs and he'll bite you" The guy left.

Although we do schH our dog is not a protection dog and at that time he bitework was only on pillows and tugs. Who knows what would have happened if she had another dog or no dog. That rottie stare can be pretty damn intimidating.

This incident is why I will do a bit of civil when the dog is ready and it's also why I prefer to have a dog or two running loose in the house when I'm gone.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

My vote is for a GSD. She may find one that she bonds with at a local shelter or she can even contact a GSD rescue group. After she gets it, she can get a collar that states "do not pet" on it. 

I see Labs all over the place in Louisiana. The ones I have come across have a good bark but no protection in them. The public view of a dog does make a difference, so if she feels she can handle a GSD I think that would be the way to go. If you or she thinks that she can handle a Rottie or one of the other breeds mentioned, then go for it. 

Andy, I love the picture and it is definitely an interesting breed but I think that may be to strong of a dog for a girl who is in her 20's and my be looking for a boyfriend! LOL All though, :-k it could help her easily get rid of the ones she don't want!\\/


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

I think the Rott or Gsd/Mal, suggest female, nice size to manage and live with.
The Rott would be low maintenance in terms of exercise shedding etc and appearance. The Gsd/Mal easier to switch on for a display of aggression, a bit less chilled than the Rott.
Off course the "lines" would be important I think many of know there are few dogs out there that will lay down there lives for you. So something with the genetics to support strong nerve.
The lab would give a decent bark behind the door but I think if your friend was out jogging or in the car you need something to headbutt the windows for effect.

Mark


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Hate to say it but the Lab would be the *LAST* dog to pick. I've owned and trained them and they are very nive people dogs. Chick magnets too! :mrgreen: 

For PP use and as a guard animal the German Shepherd, if from working lines is a top pick. As a Bouvier breeder, I like the Bouvs size and temperament. Any working lines animal which is smaller framed is a good choice. The Belgium Malinois is nice if you are active and get one that isn't off the wall.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mari Steward said:


> I would never suggest a lab, that is the fastest way to get her hurt. A hiker in Atlanta that was killed was hiking with a lab. An untrained weak dog is your worst enemy. I say she should get a rottweiler othey are fearless, oblivious to pain and will give their life for her). If she wants something smaller with lots of energy, I would go with a malinois, GSD, a doberman or a bouvier. Personal protection is nothing to play with. I need my protector to take a man down if need be and willing to give his life for mine. I own two intact male dogs...a rottweiler and a cane corso.


Mari you mentioned the Bouvier...I like the way you think! :mrgreen: 
The Bigger the Bouvs, the better! Big Bouvs rule... 8-[ :mrgreen:


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

I can tell you that when I was in college as an undergrad and living in the fraternity house with my Lab we never had a problem with vagrants or break-ins,while many other houses down the "row" did. He was a large dog with a block head and a deep bark. I understand the perception is reality thought process but if your dog has a nice deep bark and not a yappy little squeek that alone is enough to stop most problems. 
If someone wants to break into your place not much is going to make a difference aside from a dog that this girl is probably not going to want to deal with, so I say she should get a decent sized dog with a deep bark that she is comfortable with and that alone will preclude any opportunistic break-ins.


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

I would also like to note that a Mali would be great for her if she is into staying active. I am not biased at all, its just that Malis are where its at! :mrgreen: 

In all actuality, most everyone here is a bit biased towards dogs that do actual work and that seems to be a bit much for the woman described, so a nice Mali, Dutchie, GSD, Rottie or Dobie that is not all that sharp, medium sized for the breed, possibly female would suit her just fine. All these dogs have the perception of being dogs to be wary of and that in and of itself is what she is looking for!

It is also important to know what her level of experience with dogs of any sort is. If its her first time with a dog there is a good possibility that none of the above dogs would be good for her.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

The Rott/GSD suggestions are good, I'd add Dobe, Bouv or Giant Schnauzer, as long as the ears were cropped on the Dobe. A docked/cropped Dobe is still a very solid visual deterrant. A Bouv or GS IMO has a little more deterrant value if cropped, but usually big, black and hairy is enough of a deterrant. Something about the black face and shiny white teeth showing through that beard LOL 
The bulldogs IMO can go either way. They can be a deterrant, but they can also be an attractor for some thugs, who want to see if you want to fight your dog, or want to try to steal it. As much as I love a bulldog, I wouldn't get one for deterrant value.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/03/22/hilton_0323.html
> 
> If she would have had a Malinois or Dutchie or whatever, would that have saved her life? Maybe, maybe not. Sounds like she came pretty close to hurting him badly enough to escape. Anyways, even a fully trained Rottie or a Cane Corso is no guarantee of protection and anyone serious about PPDs is (or should be) well aware of this.
> 
> Still, it reminds me I should remember to carry my larger pocket knife with me when I'm by myself hiking.


My daughter is at that age 15 years old where predators think that a young woman is a easy target. We've had a number of attacks on young women here the past few months. My daughter is also at the age where my word means squat and she thinks I'm nuts for worrying so much. I always get her to take the dog to the store etc. But that sorta changed when some a-hole tried to snag one of her friends (13) about 4 blocks away from our house. That girl fought and fortunately was able to escape. She as well had some Tae-Kwon-Do experience. She was still bruised up and pounded on though in the process. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/03/20/5058066-sun.html They caught one guy after the latest one but who knows if he was responsible or even related to any of the previous attacks. 

My daughter thankfully, I had the vision to put her into a martial art and is now a black belt in Jiu Jitsu she practiced that art from the time she 6 until she was 13 she doesn't want to train anymore sad to say. But I'm sure if push came to shove she could make an account of herself to an unsuspecting thug like her friend did. After her friend was attacked she takes the dog now to the store. With the sick people that make up humankinds darkside you can never be careful enough. Not that a 45lb Female Malinois would be much deterent but any little bit helps I guess. I wouldn't know even that my dog would protect, if one of my kids was accosted. She is bitework trained but it is for sport. I think it would be interesting to try some scenarios one day with my daughter handling her at French Ring that are not part of the routines just to see.


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Mari you mentioned the Bouvier...I like the way you think! :mrgreen:
> The Bigger the Bouvs, the better! Big Bouvs rule... 8-[ :mrgreen:


Hey Howard,

I love Boviers and when we get our kennel, I plan to add a Bouvier to my crew. I want to train him for Ring Sport.


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

As for the young lady she should not only invest in a good dog but she needs to invest in some personal protection training for this dog. Knowing how to handle a dog is important. What is the purpose of having a gun if you do not know how to use it?

When I lived in an apartment, there were notices of people being attacked (I lived in a supposedly quiet upscale suburban area). Anyway, my boyfriend suggested that I get a rottweiler. At first he was too much for me to handle, I always had dobermans and they learned differently and reacted differently. I then took my rottie pup (then 1 year old) to be trained at Premier K9 in Atlanta in obedience. I also found out that Premier K9 trained pollice dogs and personal protection dogs...I, like most consumers did not understand personal protection or need to train a seemingly aggressive dog to attack on command or attack if I was treatened without a command. 

The important thing about a good personal protection dog is that as a handler you must be able to exercise complete control over that dog. Also, when push comes to shove and you are all alone walking and someone jumps out at you, will that dogs fight or run and hide.

Most attackers at not your average street thug that will back down to a lab. I don't know how any times people have come up to pet my rottie and tried to pet him (they tell me that he is so cute). One thing I can say about my rottie is that he knows the difference between a friend and foe and at the drop of a dime he would maul someone if he needs to. 

It is unfortunate that we live in a society that we are force to takes these measures but it is a necessary evil.


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## Will Kline (Jan 10, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> She doesn't really want to buy a gun or a real high powered trained protection dog, but she is interested in getting a dog just as a deterrent so she can go on walks with and alert bark for intruders.


Lets not forget...this post is to suggest a dog that would fit what her friend wants and NOT what we think she should want.


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

I'd say the any of the standard "guard dog" type that people are aware of and see alot of in the media including the GSD, Rot and Dobe. These dogs have had alot of media attention over the years and nearly everyone knows what these dogs are and what they are used for. Think about all the TV shows and movies these dogs have been in. Everyone knows them.
The amount of power over perception the media has is amazing.


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## Kris Finison (Nov 26, 2007)

I'll agree and say that a GSD, Mal and Dutchie would be the best as a lot of people know they are often used as police K9 units and are automatically averted.
Rotties have a reputation.
I think a Cane Corso is another good candidate. They have (at least in some people's eyes) a Pit/Mastiff look yet they can give plenty of warning to detera potential attacker. They are also usually more than willing to engage if need be.


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## Mari Steward (Mar 3, 2008)

There has been a lot of good suggestions for dogs that this young lady can use as a deterrant. However, many of the dog breeds referred to take a strong handler and good training for proper control and to avoid unwanted liability. I know that she does not want a protection trained dog but if she was my friend I would encourage her to take the dog to training and learn how to handle the high every level of a malinois, doberman or GSD or the strength of a rottie, cane corso or pitt. 

I found out early that owning a rottie and knowing how to properly handle that particular breed with its unique temperment was another thing. That is just my opinion from one female to another. A working dog is just that a dog breed to protect and serve...:-k


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

a big lazy show line rott would do the trick. Females are relatively masculine looking and much easier to handle than a male Rott. I have two females and they are like big labs.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, I asked her how her search was going and apparently the landlord doesn't permit pit bulls, Rotties, or Dobermans. :roll: So....I don't think a Presa or a Cane Corso will go over too well! :lol: She may go look for a nice German shepherd from a shelter or rescue though. Too bad about the Doberman and Rotties. There are a pair of nice (docked, but uncropped) Dobes in the local shelter now and a male and female Rottweiler. I once fostered a VERY nice GSD/Great Pyrenees mix (looked like a woolly coated GSD with double dew claws) that I *almost* considered keeping as a therapy dog. He looked large and imposing, but had a nice temperament.

Actually, just on looks alone, I'm pretty surprised no one mentioned the Akita. Regardless of your opinion on their working ability, they always seemed to have a definite presence to them that most people would be weary of, especially the ones with a darker colored face.


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Well, I asked her how her search was going and apparently the landlord doesn't permit pit bulls, Rotties, or Dobermans. :roll: So....I don't think a Presa or a Cane Corso will go over too well! :lol:


Voila! ...and social fear/discrimination at it's best! 

Too bad she can't have any of those breeds. An Akita is a good choice too.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I'd get a rottie with an undocked tail and call it a lab mix


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Actually, just on looks alone, I'm pretty surprised no one mentioned the Akita. Regardless of your opinion on their working ability, they always seemed to have a definite presence to them that most people would be weary of, especially the ones with a darker colored face.


You are right an Akita is a imposing sight. The problem is living with one. The Akitas I've had the joy to meet and work with all seemed to have dog aggression issues let alone other specie issues to the extreme. They are strong willed and super strong physically, they are a lot of dog to handle for any one. She might as well get a trained PPD of (whatever breed) then IMHO it would probably be less work. 

This lady wants a dog that is easier to live with, as a wash and wear dog. IMHO she'd be mistaken if she'd think an Akita would fit that bill. I really think that with an Akita you have to be a strong handler and I am assuming your friend doesn't have that experience yet. It would be a mistake.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I also once fostered a nice Rottie/Lab mix named Lucky. :mrgreen: He looked pretty intimidating, but he was just a big softie. Not a mean bone in his body.










My Siberian husky/Rottweiler mix Buck is a pretty obvious 50/50 mix to me, but he's actually got the highest deterrent factor of any of my dogs in my experience. More so than any of the Mals. He does actually have a pretty low bite threshold, but it's more he doesn't like strangers grabbing his fur more than a real strong protectiveness. 










Actually, speaking of huskies, I've fostered a good number of huskies and found a surprising number of people, despite their popularity, are afraid of them because they look like wolves. Perhaps a Malamute would be a candidate.


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

> I'm pretty surprised no one mentioned the Akita


I could be wrong but from what I understand Akita's have quite an issue with dog on dog aggression.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't mean to sound snarky, but...pit bulls, German shepherds, and Rottweilers don't commonly have dog aggression issues?  Not that dog aggression is an insignificant issue in "protection" breeds because it's a highly annoying if not dangerous trait if allowed to get out of control, of course. As long as they can be neutral when working and pay more attention to the handler than to other dogs, it shouldn't be a major issue.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Unless she is really committed to owning a working dog, which is a lot of responsibility, than any large, pointy-eared, dark-coloured dog of any breed or mix would be a good visual deterrent. The bigger, the better. A good, deep bark and a confident personality would help, too.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I don't mean to sound snarky, but...pit bulls, German shepherds, and Rottweilers don't commonly have dog aggression issues?  Not that dog aggression is an insignificant issue in "protection" breeds because it's a highly annoying if not dangerous trait if allowed to get out of control, of course. As long as they can be neutral when working and pay more attention to the handler than to other dogs, it shouldn't be a major issue.



No no you are not sounding snarky at all. DA is commonplace everywhere with any breed, you have lots of experience I'm sure you've seen it. I've seen bichons, pugs and beagles who were little DA swines. Like you say "if allowed to get out of control" 

I'm not sure if you are comments are based on Chris's and my general comments about Akitas. 

If it is I'll add. Problem with an Akita you are constantly being challenged by them and if they get it in their heads that they are going to kill that toy poodle walking down the street ahead of them and the Akita handler doesn't have their wits together they'd be hard pressed to defuse a Akita in hunt drive. That poodle is dead .. in a wink of an eye.


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## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

I agree with all the others that reccommended the GSD. Great reputation and I have had plenty of people walk off the sidewalk into the street to avoid my guy. And more times than not when someone wants to approach they ask if it is safe.

Terry


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## Eros Kopliku (Jan 30, 2008)

Here's another one for the GSD. 

I know that she does not want a firearm, but I cannot help but comment how she expects an untrained animal to deter an attacker by looking "scary". I genuinly feel sorry for her. I guess it would make her appear a somewhat harder target than if she did not have a dog, but a determined assailant may not stop even if fired upon.


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## Kris Finison (Nov 26, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> No no you are not sounding snarky at all. DA is commonplace everywhere with any breed, you have lots of experience I'm sure you've seen it. I've seen bichons, pugs and beagles who were little DA swines. Like you say "if allowed to get out of control"
> If it is I'll add. Problem with an Akita you are constantly being challenged by them and if they get it in their heads that they are going to kill that toy poodle walking down the street ahead of them and the Akita handler doesn't have their wits together they'd be hard pressed to defuse a Akita in hunt drive.


I'm glad someone brought up drives... 
One needs to consider the context of dog aggression. With the smaller breeds it's often a fear driven. DA in Rotties is often based on rank issues and dominance. Conversely, APBT and EBT dog aggression is usually prey and fight drives as they don't care about dominance. Sometimes small instances could be possessiveness of a toy or bone.

That said, I think an Akita wouldn't be as good of a deterrent as they are still seen by many people as "fuzzy" and cute. I often have people come up and INSIST my CO is an Akita. :roll:
Also, while there are exceptions to every situation (and I do admit I know a few involving Akitas personally) how often are they used for protection work - sport based or otherwise? Again, not that it can't be done, but on the whole there are other breeds that can and do perform the job better.


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

Of the more typically seem breeds Rottys & Pitts thanks to the media would be good choices.

I walk my female Rotty and my male Alaskan Malamute together on brace at heel in the neighborhood. People see the Malamute and are complelled to come over and pet the lovable,big, fluffy looking dog. THEN they see the Rotty hidden from view by all the fur and back off. Which always makes me smile. 

The Rotty has her Therapy cert, has rock soild OB, ready to tested for her BH and perfect manners and people don't want to be near her in public. The big fluffy Malamute will pee on you if your not watching the sneeky &^$(&$...LOL


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> I don't mean to sound snarky, but...pit bulls, German shepherds, and Rottweilers don't commonly have dog aggression issues?


Not that AKC is THE authority on dogs but here is what they list for the akita at Wiki;

*American Kennel Club temperament standard* "Alert and responsive, dignified and courageous. Aggressive toward other dogs."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akita_Inu


And another quote;
"The Akita was never bred to live or work in groups like many hound and sporting breeds. Instead, they lived and worked singly or in pairs, a preference reflected today. The individual Akita is happy being an only dog or one of two dogs in a household, but can be very aggressive towards animals not part of his family group, particularly strange dogs. A properly trained Akita will learn to tolerate other animals and not go looking for trouble, but the owner must never forget his dog's inherent drive to be top dog at almost any cost."

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/akita.html

*Don't get me wrong, I love the breed*. But the problem with DA can really get old after paying neighbors vet bills. We had an Akita in my family when I was younger for a little while and it would constantly jump over the fence and show up later with blood all over it from other dogs. May just be a fluke but he was a dog killer. My dad finally had to make my brother get rid of it. Most dogs fight to establish dominance but this dog truly fought other animals to kill them. It was insane.

An Akita would be the dog to take with you if you were in a wilderness area for sure.


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## Mo Earle (Mar 1, 2008)

In reference to what the landlord allows, if they aren't allowing Pit,Rotties,Dobes, she needs to get a definate answer about GSD's before she gets attached to one...unfortunately a lot of insurances are prejudiced against all of these breeds...with that said- my favorite would be the Mal,the GSD,Rottie,etc...but what about a rhodesian ridgeback,or even a finnish spitz, a chow chow or boxer-if you are just looking for the fierce look?

on the other hand she does need to be careful, a few years back a girl in our club, had a nice rottie, doing protection work, went for a walk in the local park and was approached by three jerks, that asked about her dog,and threatened to take her dog-after she told them to leave her alone, they decided they were going to take the dog..fortunately her Rottie was awesome and did his job, biting one, and changed the minds of the others. If the rottie was just there for the looks, she may have not only lost her dog, but have been injured herself...I myself am fortunate to own multiple dogs, some with pet quality, some with only sport mentality and others that are true protectors and now that I have learned over the years, the protector is the type of dog I look to have...I wish your friend luck and be safe. Mo


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## Frank Smego (Feb 29, 2008)

While it's not directly in responce to the OP's question Mo Earle presents a very valid point "Bluffing" with an image only goes so far.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

I'll walk with my fairly light-eyed, black-faced GSD, and he does have a very intense look on his face--people do cross to the other side of the street. However, I also walk and carry myself in a confident, don't **** with-me look at times. That may be a bigger deterrant than my dog


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## Chris Jones (Jan 26, 2008)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> I'll walk with my fairly light-eyed, black-faced GSD, and he does have a very intense look on his face--people do cross to the other side of the street. However, I also walk and carry myself in a confident, don't **** with-me look at times. That may be a bigger deterrant than my dog


You go girl! :-b


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Here in the UK, the tabloid press have ensured that Rotts are considered devil dogs by the general public - this of course make them a good deterrent, which is what the OP wants.

Others that the general public would consider scary on 'reputation' would include the GSD and Dobe. Dogs that the general public seem to find scary (because they are large, have big heads and are relatively rare) would include Bullmastiff, Dogue de Bordeaux, Cane Corso and American Bulldog.

How about a really nasty JR or Patterdale - that would put me off......:mrgreen:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Ian said;
"How about a really nasty JR or Patterdale - that would put me off......:mrgreen:"

That would put off most of the big scary dogs also.  :grin:


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## Sarah Day (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm gonna 2nd (3rd, whatever) the recommendation of GSD something. I often walk my pointy-eared, sable coated dog in some iffy neighborhoods, and nearly everyone says something like "it that a wolf?!" and quite a few people go to the other side of the street, or make a wide circle around us.

I think showing off her OB is more impressive than anything, tho. I usually bring her in to a heel when passing questionable characters, and put a stern look on my face. 

I also think pointy eared GSD looking dogs are less likely to be coveted by undesireables, as opposed to a pittie, or AB.


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