# Fish



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Don't see much on fish in the diet. Any resaons for not using it as often as beef or chicken?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Cost, availability, and the heavy metals that a lot of them are picking up.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

It's more expensive.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

As kids we used to club & spear carp while they spawned in the shallow marshes around lakes. You could get a year supply in a few hours on some years if you timed it right. Not sure how safe it is to feed raw but I used to give one to the dog raw with no ill effect. Some Asians and Hispanics would take them home to eat. My boy smoked one once and it was good. Would be interesting to know how big the heavy metal build up really is.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Saltwater fish have more heavy metals in them than fresh water fish. I give my dogs salmon, trout and perch that I catch all summer long


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

David in our area/state they restrict us on the amount of bottom feeders people should eat. Cancer causing junk is going to kill us quicker than the third world crazys!


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> David in our area/state they restrict us on the amount of bottom feeders people should eat. Cancer causing junk is going to kill us quicker than the third world crazys!


I would be pretty leery of eating anything in water that goes by or is near heavy industrial areas. Some of the remote lakes in the west I'm not going to worry about.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Living in Alaska I can say that there is no shortage of fish. Many of the sled dog owners raise their dogs heavily or partly on fish. Mainly salmon. We can often find cheap salmon on the classified adds and many families donate their old fish to their doggy friends every summer to make room for their fresh catch. 

We are not suppose to feed the fresh to our animals but when it is dipnetting season each family member is allowed to take 25 fish per day- you can see how you can easily get extra. Dip netting is very hard work so not every one does it. But you always know people who do it and they are pretty generous with their old fish....

We did have some mercury reported- but it was mostly south of here and it was in the king salmon and halibut. King salmon are hard to come by and so I didn't worry about it.

We feed it when we have it. Dog love it and they look great on it. However the sh!t smells really bad when they eat it.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I feed fish as a supplement to my girl's diet not as a main ingredient. I get it from my RAW supplier and it is twice the price of chicken. Though I make sure it is not from west of the the Cascade mountain range as there is a parasite that can be on Salmonoid fish that can cause Salmon poisoning in dogs. http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/salmon.aspx Salmonoid fish are any fish that swim upstream to spawn i.e. Trout, Salmon etc. 

You can get most of the benefits of 'fish' from supplementing Salmon or Herring oil. I use human grade Salmon oil caplets from Costco as well as http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/ or http://www.canada-shops.com/Stores/healthdiets1/c27938p16729279.2.html


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> David in our area/state they restrict us on the amount of bottom feeders people should eat. Cancer causing junk is going to kill us quicker than the third world crazys!


 
Same thing around here. They even mention particular rivers to avoid eating from. Some are ok in small amounts some they say avoid altogether.


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

I prefer most of my dog's diet to consist of ruminants. Feel that more closely resembles the diet of a wolf.

Still, I might feed more fish if it was available to me more often for cheap.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> I feed fish as a supplement to my girl's diet not as a main ingredient.


Same here. I get a lot of saltwater fish free, one of the benefits of living in Florida. Some of the dogs I've had like fish more than others. I've had dogs that will eat the whole fish, scales, bones, head, teeth, nothing would be left. I always get a kick out watching dogs crunch fish heads. But I also always had my reservations because I don't think salt water fish are a natural food source for a canine. If it were salmon I'd feel more comfortable with it because even though salmon is also a salt water species I know that it's a staple for wild canines during a certain of the year. Maybe because it's also more oily. For this reason when I can I give my dogs mackerels rather than other fish, mackerel flesh is more oily. I've never noticed any ill effects. But as previously said I don't look at it as a staple more of a supplement although at times it takes up the bigger part of the dog's food bowl. I'd say I feed some fish at least two times a week.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Just don't feed your dog a live catfish. My last dog loved fish until she got stabbed by a sharp catfish spine, then she wouldn't touch any fish raw after that.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

It's interesting to watch them learn to eat the fish. I guess if they don't like the fish too much in the first place a poke from a spine will do that. Most salt water fish however have very sharp spines on a few fins.


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I sup canned salmon and mackrel when I can afford it. I try for twice a week, a whole can ontop of kibble or the RAW I already feed. I'd feed like a musher if I lived in Alaska. LOL I fed whole Talapia before, took my dog a few minutes to figure out I wasn't going to take the scales or fins off for him. On rare occasion I have a problem with a dog eating, I put another dog in with them and they usually scoop it right up to avoid loosing it. I unthawed some ground bear last week, Baden wasn't having it period. My female ate it right up.


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## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I tried the whole tilapia, our pug is the only one who ate it. Imagine a pug gnawing away on a 2lb whole fish. He did a good job on them too. I mostly feed frozen whiting fillets I get at Sam's, they not too expensive, I think around 10 bucks for an 8lb bag. I try to give one meal a week that uses the fish as a muscle meat substitute. My GSD isn't too fond of it but if I cut it up and mix it with some juice out of a bag of raw liver, he'll eat it. I can get him to eat canned mackerel too if I mix it with hamburger. Just like a kid, gotta sneak it in on him. The Dane and Pug have no problem with the whiting, I just throw it in their bowls. 



I don't do canned tuna for them, or canned or fresh salmon, too expensive. The canned mackerel is reasonable, about 1.29 for a 16oz can so it fits into the price scale pretty well.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

Variety and freshness are nice. Typical day out on the water  Haven't tried to feed them lobster yet but my rott did grab one and try to walk away with it.


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## Jenn Schoonbrood (Oct 31, 2008)

I like feeding fish, except for the fish smell if it constitutes too much of the dog's diet. No real reason not to feed it, as far as I'm concerned.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Michael Wise said:


> I prefer most of my dog's diet to consist of ruminants. Feel that more closely resembles the diet of a wolf.


You figure Micheal??  http://video.aol.com/video-detail/l...-bear-rainforest/1667317767/?icid=VIDURVPET09 


http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/wolves_canada_old.html

Enjoy the link and Video everyone!


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I don't know where that video was taken, of course they will eat fish. Ask Julie, when the pinks/sockeye run in the late summer the banks of some rivers have lots of dead carcasses laying everywhere, like in Haines or Skagway.

Pink salmon along with chum are considered dog food there by some, that's what you buy in cans mostly :-x 

Coho and King rule, take a trip to Huna (sp) you will never want to leave.


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## Michael Wise (Sep 14, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> You figure Micheal??


Yes. http://www.borealforest.org/zoo/timbwolf.htm This site is Canadian. I thought you might understand it better.  :razz: 


[FONT=arial, Helvetica]*"Diet*[/FONT] [FONT=arial, Helvetica]*The wolf is a carnivore and prefers mostly big game of the deer family (moose, white-tailed deer and caribou).* It will also hunt smaller game (rabbits, ruffed grouse, beaver, muskrats and rodents even as small as mice, shrews and squirrels). It is not unusual for wolves to supplement their diet with berries, fruits and insects when game is not readily available."[/FONT]


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I don't know where that video was taken, of course they will eat fish.


 
It was taken in Great Bear Rainforest in BC. http://www.britishcolumbia.com/regions/towns/?townID=4120

That wolf is a sub species of the Grey Wolf called the Coastal Wolf. They have genetic characteristics uniquely different from other wolves, which I find totally fascinating.


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Fish mostly costs too much around here. The affordable stuff is often imported and farm raised from countries I wouldn't trust my dogs health too. I don't get fish often enough for myself much less my dogs. Would I feed it to them if I had a cheap source? Yes.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ever see what wild dogs eat ??? Has nothing to do with moose, I can tell you that. LOL

Dogs are scavengers. They SHOULD be able to eat what the **** ever.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ever see what wild dogs eat ??? Has nothing to do with moose, I can tell you that. LOL
> 
> Dogs are scavengers. They SHOULD be able to eat what the **** ever.


Absolutely. I used to hunt coyotes when I lived in AZ. Certain times of the year their stomach and scat is full of everything but meat, mesquite bean pods and prickly pear fruit are a favorite for the sugar. They also spend a lot of time around pecan and citrus orchards, they supplement the fruit & nuts with rodents, rabbits & stray pets and road kill.

Dogs have been camp followers for thousands of generations eating anything left over that the humans couldn't or wouldn't eat.

I don't buy into the dogs need a wolf diet theory and even so Farley Mowat proved they eat a lot more than just the ungulates in the wild.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

David Scholes said:


> mesquite bean pods and prickly pear fruit are a favorite for the sugar.


I thought there was a consensus that sugar is not good for dogs? They can't assimilate it or it converts into something else that is harmful to them. What's the latest word on that?


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## Tina Rempel (Feb 13, 2008)

Maybe it's processes sugar is the that is the problem. My females will "help" pick apples, pears, raspberries, blackberries, and kiwi. Those areas have to be fenced off from the dogs.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

Oh I know they'll eat stuff. Sometimes I think they'll eat stuff just because I'm eating it, other times they'll spit it out. I usually go with the flow in the sense that if they like it then it must be good for them. I made an exception with sugar even though I know that in moderation everything is probably good. I just remembered sugar as being particularly bad for dogs, processed or natural. I'd love to learn otherwise.


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## David Scholes (Jul 12, 2008)

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> Oh I know they'll eat stuff. Sometimes I think they'll eat stuff just because I'm eating it, other times they'll spit it out. I usually go with the flow in the sense that if they like it then it must be good for them. I made an exception with sugar even though I know that in moderation everything is probably good. I just remembered sugar as being particularly bad for dogs, processed or natural. I'd love to learn otherwise.


I stay away from the processed sugars but all wild canines eat some fruit when available. So, in moderation, I don't worry. I do try to stick with the lots of protein, low carb with variety being good IMO.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Face it, a dog will eat anything!!!!!!!!!!! The fish oil pills is something I was playing around doing. SOME FOLKS in Flordia love to BUST the chops of others by showing off great catches!!!!!!!!! NICE...I'LL take 3 cases of shrimp. Did a shrimp gumbo last night. 

Why would a single wolf use up more energy and risk of death trying to pull down a moose or deer if fish or small game is near? I have eagles around my place and have seen them eat on road kill deer on my farm. Now there's a something to see.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> The fish oil pills is something I was playing around doing.


I'd say it is a good choice to do. Especially in the Winter for sure. I buy from Costco the Webber Naturals and the Grizzly and Urban Wolf ones I linked to earlier in the thread. 

Some dogs I've heard may be allergic to certain Fish oils. So if you see them doing the ol' butt drag and paying lots of attention to the ol' bunghole after starting Fish oil that could be the culprit.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> if you see them doing the ol' butt drag and paying lots of attention to the ol' bunghole after starting Fish oil that could be the culprit.


Geoff, I wish I could find the person who slipped some oil in my drink! Dragging my "assessets." Sold my Bouvier "Breeder's Pick" on Wednesday...closer to a Mal! Got another dog to go and then it's on!!!:razz:


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

Howard, switching over to the dark side huh


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

I feed 'fish4dogs' sea jerky..... It's dried fish skins in a crispy block.

Xena gets a couple of blocks each meal with her normal food/kibble.










Cleans the teeth as well as providing protein, oils and omega3.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

todd pavlus said:


> Howard, switching over to the dark side huh


Still keeping the heavy weights! Just something about the herding breeds I like and this is one that I've been interested in for about 9-10 years. :twisted:


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## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

I supplement with canned mack jack from walmart about once a week.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

This is what I go by for my dog. It has fish twice a week in it. Courtsy of leerburg

One Week Menu for 90 Pound Male 
Monday​One pound of chicken necks or backs or leg quaters
12 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts / gizzards 
One egg w/shell 
Salmon Oil 
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitmain E 
Tuesday​6oz. Liver (chicken, beef or pork) or kidneys 
8 oz. Chicken necks or backs of Leg Quarters
One egg w/shell 
1/4 cup of ground veggies 
Salmon Oil 
2 tsp. Kelp/Alfalfa mix
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitamin E 
Wednesday​One can of mackerel 
1/4 cup veggies 
8oz. Chicken necks or backs or Chicken Leg Quarters
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitamin E 
Thursday​One pound of chicken necks or backs or Leg Quaters
12 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts and gizzards 
One egg w/shell 
Salmon Oil 
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitamin E
Friday​6oz. Liver (chicken, beef or pork) or kidneys
8 oz. Chicken necks or backs or Leg Quaters
One egg w/shell
1/4 cup of ground veggies
Salmon Oil 
2 tsp. Kelp/Alfalfa mix
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 Unites of Vitamin E 
Saturday​One pound of chicken necks or backs or Leg Quaters
12 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts/gizzards
One egg w/shell
Salmon Oil 
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 unites of Vitamin E 
Sunday​One can sardines
1/4 cup veggies
1 pound Chicken necks or backs or Leg Quaters
12 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts/gizzards
Salmon Oil 
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 Unites of Vitamin E
We gave 1 tsp. of Grand Flex or liquid glucosamine daily to our Mature dogs.

One Week Menu for 65 Pound Female 
Monday​12 oz. Chicken necks or backs
8 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts / gizzards
One egg w/shell
Salmon Oil 
1 tsp. Super C powder 
400 units of Vitmain E​Tuesday​6oz. Liver (chicken, beef or pork) or kidneys
6 oz. Chicken necks or backs
One egg w/shell
1/4 Cup of ground veggies
Salmon Oil 
2 tsp. Kelp/Alfalfa mix
1 tsp. Super C powder 
400 units of Vitmain E​Wednesday​One can of mackerel
1/4 Cup veggies
6oz. Chicken necks or backs
1 tsp. Super C powder 
400 units of Vitmain E​Thursday​12 oz. Chicken necks or backs
8 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger,beef heart or chicken hearts and gizzards
One egg w/shell
Salmon Oil 
1 tsp. Super C powder
400 units of Vitmain E​Friday​6oz. Liver (chicken, beef or pork) or kidneys
6oz. Chicken necks or backs
One egg w/shell
1/4 Cup of ground veggies
Salmon Oil 
2 tsp. Kelp/Alfalfa mix
1 tsp. Super C powder 
400 units of Vitmain E​Saturday​12 oz. Chicken necks or backs
8 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts/gizzards
One egg w/shell
Salmon Oil 
1 tsp. Super C powder 
400 units of Vitmain E​Sunday​One can sardines
1/4 Cup veggies
12 oz Chicken necks or backs
8 oz. Ground turkey, hamburger, beef heart or chicken hearts/gizzards
1 tsp. Super C powder 
400 units of Vitmain E 
We gave 1 tsp. of Grand Flex or liquid glucosamine daily to our Mature dogs.​

from
http://leerburg.com/diet2.htm


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

Lets put it this way, has anyone ever had a problem with fish other than their dog getting poked? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE-JadiCprQ


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Emilio Rodriguez said:


> Lets put it this way, has anyone ever had a problem with fish other than their dog getting poked?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE-JadiCprQ


Everyone knows about salmon poisoning, right? Many mentions on this board. Anyway, it's RAW salmonids from west of the Cascade Range. (So canned is fine, of course.)

Aside from zero raw salmonids for dogs (it's a canid-specific malady), I do give occasional fish. For the same reasons that I don't eat the heavy-metal-dangerous fish like tuna (especially white), shark, etc., I don't feed them. Ditto farmed fish of any type. 

Commercially frozen fish wild fish (which is frozen at zero and below) can be a great protein changeup with parasite worries pretty much eliminated. 

However, I give fish oil (and the E that the dog uses in processing the PUFAs) every day. Has nothing to do with whether wild canids eat fish or not, for me, but everything to do with virtually all modern diets having been skewed away from the Omega 6-3 balance that they had when slaughter animals were pasture-fed (big among several causes).

Short-chain 3s are not converted into the long-chain 3s that are so beneficial in the dog's body. Even in humans, the conversion isn't efficient; in dogs, it's about zero. Dogs need direct EPA and DHA, and fish oil does that.

JMO!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/clientEd/salmon.aspx

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/57305.htm


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Well Connie, now that you've blown away half of the forum with that information, with me leading the way...thanks! Good information to know! Thanks...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Well Connie, now that you've blown away half of the forum with that information, with me leading the way...thanks! Good information to know! Thanks...



I hope not. There have been a half-dozen threads here on the topic, and if you leave out Neorickettsia poisoning, I'd say more like a dozen.


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## Emilio Rodriguez (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks for the info Connie.


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