# Civilian Drug Dogs-?



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Have any of you ever heard of civilian drug dogs? I might be interested in training and certifying my pup for this IF there would be any potential commercial benefit, such as inspecting work places, schools, etc. Do you know if there's a market for this? Thanks in advance.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

There are civilians that have trained drug dogs. They do detection dor companies, factories, schools etc, where they do not necessarily want law enforcement action taken. I wouldn't really know how to get involved, I would think one could Google private drug detection or something like that and come up with some ideas.

DFrost


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks David. I'm going to take a gander that, with all of the certifications that are required (and their fees!) it may not be worthwhile as a part-time venture. That's my guess but I'll look into it. It sounds like fun!


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Patrick Murray said:


> Thanks David. I'm going to take a gander that, with all of the certifications that are required (and their fees!) it may not be worthwhile as a part-time venture. That's my guess but I'll look into it. It sounds like fun!


It is my understanding that Most juristictions do not have a standardized "certification" requirement, it is done as an option to say the dog meets XXXX qualifications, but not mandatory.

There can also be different requirements as far as business and profesional licensure required depending on the State, County and/or City. For instance, at one time Nevada required a PI liscense first before operating this type of private business.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Kyle Sprag said:


> It is my understanding that Most juristictions do not have a standardized "certification" requirement, it is done as an option to say the dog meets XXXX qualifications, but not mandatory.
> 
> There can also be different requirements as far as business and profesional licensure required depending on the State, County and/or City. For instance, at one time Nevada required a PI liscense first before operating this type of private business.


Thanks Kyle.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I tried it with Jak, but I just didn't have the time necessary to devote to the training, since the trainer was 2.5 hours away and I work a full-time job & do SchH training as well. Then there was the little issue of training aids...


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> I tried it with Jak, but I just didn't have the time necessary to devote to the training, since the trainer was 2.5 hours away and I work a full-time job & do SchH training as well. Then there was the little issue of training aids...


I hear they grow those training aids out your way Kristen.


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## Pascale Breton (Aug 22, 2008)

There is and many companies and schools use non-law enforcement so they can decide what to do if the dog gets a hit. You may not want to fire your best employee just get him help. 

The downside is the DEA has just moved all diversion to VA and no longer gives training aids to civilians regardless of the fact they have a DEA license.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

True. It can be purchased, with a DEA License, though Omni I think or one of those companies. They are expensive.

Pascale, drop by the Introduction forum and introduce yourself. Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy it.

DFrost


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Patrick Murray said:


> I hear they grow those training aids out your way Kristen.


Several of them, actually! :lol:


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## Pascale Breton (Aug 22, 2008)

I think you mean Sigma-Aldrich the company that also make the Pseudo aids. You can buy Meth, Herion and Cocaine, but not Marijuana. Also it is beyond expensive. 1 gram of cocaine is 196.00

The DEA used to give you the aids free and then as long as you disposed of them properly rotate new ones in. It would cost you $$$$$$ to rotate in new aids montly from them and still you would not be able to get Marijauna. 

In Washington you can only certify on real drugs with the WSPCA and no department really wants a dog trained on Pseudo due to the potential court liability. Easier to say my dog has never been trained on anything except real drugs, that's why he indicated on the defendents car. Hah so take that defense boy.

I'll look up Omni-Chem and see what they offer. Thanks for giving me the name of the company.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I'm on record numerous times. I don't believe in the use of psuedo. It's like using blanks on the range for qualification. Doesn't prove a thing. having said that however, and to be fair, there is currently no record of any court proceedings where the use of psuedo was detrimental to a case. I still will not use it and preach against it's use anytime anyone will listen. 

DFrost


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2008)

Pascale Breton said:


> The downside is the DEA has just moved all diversion to VA and no longer gives training aids to civilians regardless of the fact they have a DEA license.


Are you -f-ing kidding me?

Ah yes, the lucrative enterprise of re-selling DEA dope. Pervasive problem indeed.

DEA and ATF seem to be pretty good at enhancing LEO status as a special class of super human. Do as I say, not as I do! Keeps us a on a nice big pedestal for monkeys to throw crap at, and further alienates people who should have the right to undertake civic duties to the degree which they can.

After all, Sir Robert Peel sayeth that such duties are INCUMBENT upon every citizen but simply designated to LEOs as a full-time undertaking.


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

Pascale Breton said:


> I think you mean Sigma-Aldrich the company that also make the Pseudo aids. You can buy Meth, Herion and Cocaine, but not Marijuana. Also it is beyond expensive. 1 gram of cocaine is 196.00
> 
> The DEA used to give you the aids free and then as long as you disposed of them properly rotate new ones in. It would cost you $$$$$$ to rotate in new aids montly from them and still you would not be able to get Marijauna.
> 
> ...


The Sigma stuff in not that expensive and they do make Marajuana

http://www.elitek9.com/Scent_Detection/index.htm


Maybe I misread your post, are you talking about the cost of the Real stuff?????


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Pat, one of the better known “go to guys” for the police K9 units in NJ turned me on to civilian narcotic detection. He is a retired police K9 guy and has certified over 1000 teams over the past 20 something years. He said he had work for a civilian team. His certification program did not fit into my wife’s schedule. So my dog spent 10 weeks the beginning of the summer at Baden receiving narcotic training, getting imprinted etc. My wife then went up there for training at Baden during the middle of the summer. Since then they have been working with the trainer in NJ once or twice a week to be certified team. They also do many searches themselves all week. he was trained on the real stuff and works with the real stuff with the trainer. We have a freezer full of Pseudo at home. They should be certified in NJ in a few weeks. Should be interesting to see if anything comes of it. There is a market for it privet combines are hired more than I though, such as trucking companies. Our local township ran road department also has a privet company check the lockers of the town employees. 
The only problem so far is my 6 and 9 year olds telling the kids at school that they hide drugs for mommy. 
The attached images I took today when I swung by their training. They were also doing bite work with blanks being fired. My wife does not enjoy bite work and all the cops get a kick out of it.


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## Kevin Cramer (Jan 26, 2008)

I work in law enforcement and have experience training narc dogs with several police agencies. I am not nor ever was a k9 handler for my agency. I want to start dogs on 4 odors and teach indications. I ran into a problem though. The DEA won't give me a license because I don't have a certificate saying I know what I'm doing when training drug dogs. They really didn't care about my current k9 handler references. NAPWDA and other certifying organizations won't certify me because I don't use my dog FOR my agency. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Kevin Cramer said:


> I work in law enforcement and have experience training narc dogs with several police agencies. I am not nor ever was a k9 handler for my agency. I want to start dogs on 4 odors and teach indications. I ran into a problem though. The DEA won't give me a license because I don't have a certificate saying I know what I'm doing when training drug dogs. They really didn't care about my current k9 handler references. NAPWDA and other certifying organizations won't certify me because I don't use my dog FOR my agency. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.


I have spoke to few civilians that have received there DEA license for narcotic training, you do have to jump through a few hoops. We may give it a shoot sooner or later. I am fairly certain you have a better chance with a company name going. A company name or LLC helps out in pretending your for real. My understanding is if my wife and dog are certified and have a company we should be able to get the license. “maybe”. But, you just can’t fill out the paper work and say I want dope to train dogs.


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## Kevin Cramer (Jan 26, 2008)

"A company name or LLC helps out in pretending your for real." 


That's what they told me so I formed an LLC. After I did they I found out that they wanted the certification before they would give me the license. I wish I knew that first before I spent the money for the LLC and paid for the DEA application fee.

I'm not a big fan of pseudo but that may be the only option in my case.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks Chris. I'm sure it would be fun to do. I'm not sure that it would be practical or sensible from a financial point of view. But thanks anyway.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Kevin Cramer said:


> "A company name or LLC helps out in pretending your for real."
> 
> 
> That's what they told me so I formed an LLC. After I did they I found out that they wanted the certification before they would give me the license. I wish I knew that first before I spent the money for the LLC and paid for the DEA application fee.
> ...


Imagine that the run around from the government. I guess I can’t complain that they make it hard to keep a controlled substance. My only bitch is I think it would take more time to get a permit for a deck, and I probably have the same chance of getting shot down.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Patrick Murray said:


> Thanks Chris. I'm sure it would be fun to do. I'm not sure that it would be practical or sensible from a financial point of view. But thanks anyway.


Your right about the financial thing. As I said in the past trying to learn some dog handling is a hobby. I really didn’t run any numbers. If you want to make a buck with your dog you have a better chance with bed bugs. Dutch shepherds are not the wanted breed for that gig though. You cant hide them in a side bag and sneak them from hotel room to hotel room. Got to go with the beagle


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## Dave Blosser (Jul 29, 2007)

I started off training my own dogs while conducting monthly in service training with depts. From there I started helping them do school searches and after a while I sat down and formed a letter and mailed ALOT out and sure enough first school called and off it went. 

The first school ever done privately I had 4 alerts, all productive- 3 lockers and one car, which matched the person of the one locker. It was very interesting, the local Pd was not happy because they weren't called and they were still never called ahead of time. 

You have to watch dept of commerce (I think it was them ) will try and say your a private security company and require a license. That's a joke because I'm sure DFrost or other senior officers will inform you that's alot of paper work and if you ain't prior LE good luck. I had a run in with a competitor at the yearly school board conference and he was a joke, but I took his flame away he thought so he figured he would pull one. 

Well the one way to avoid this license is by having the police there when you scan lockers or facility, well okay then they :wink: and I no longer use the word search, my dog scans the outside of the lockers or item. 

I did have certification, I was lucky because a friend of mine has /owns American Working Dog and he allowed me to test only because he new
I did in service for depts every month. But schools never asked if I had any, they just new I train k9's for pd's and that was enough. 

Hope it helps.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Dave Blosser said:


> Well the one way to avoid this license is by having the police there when you scan lockers or facility, well okay then they :wink: and I no longer use the word search, my dog scans the outside of the lockers or item.



I can tell you that here the police wont stand by while you "scan" lockers etc. They're either involved without you, or they're not. They are not going to take a chance on your dog putting them into some sort of jackpot. Even our school resource officers would give you a wide berth should you show up on the property at the request of school officials. Just sayin

Howard


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## Nicole Mosta (Nov 13, 2008)

You might also look into the legality of having certain drugs in your posession, it most places I believe it is illegal.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Mosta said:


> You might also look into the legality of having certain drugs in your posession, it most places I believe it is illegal.



There's the rub. If you have a DEA license you can legally posses drugs. But once you find them they have to be turned over to the authorities as they are no good to you for training....or anything else for that matter. I can assure you the road cops aint going to be too happy having to write a case report and not have a body to go with it. We got enough BS to deal with. Just my perspective.


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## Carol Ann Young (Nov 24, 2008)

Patrick Murray said:


> Have any of you ever heard of civilian drug dogs? I might be interested in training and certifying my pup for this IF there would be any potential commercial benefit, such as inspecting work places, schools, etc. Do you know if there's a market for this? Thanks in advance.


When I was training in the states years ago you could use a training aid called Sokks Training Systems. I went online to to find it as I will be training civilian drug dogs again soon and there were no restrictions required at the time that I was there ( 10 years or so ago ) 

The Website has been taken down I know that they are still selling Sokks can anybody help me with a number or an address ?

The civillian dogs over here are used for prevention if they detect a person then that person is denied access into the club.
Cheers


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

From the people I spoke with the handler is just to say the dog alerted on a certain area. The dog and handler are not to stay around to see what is around the area. That is for the business owner or school official to take care of on their own.


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## Kyle Darnell (Nov 23, 2008)

Besides using pseudo you can also use scented 4x4 gauze pads. Some trainers will sell packs of scented 4x4s with cocaine, marijuana etc.


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

> Oh no, you didn't say pseudo, on the detection thread did you? No please!! You are about to feel and hear the wrath of Mr. D Frost!! May the force be with you!! Ha, Ha!!


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Phil Dodson said:


> > Oh no, you didn't say pseudo, on the detection thread did you? No please!! You are about to feel and hear the wrath of Mr. D Frost!! May the force be with you!! Ha, Ha!!



OK, I'm laughing here, but geez, someone really didn't say pseudo did they. I can only imagine they fish with no bait, hunt with blanks and............... well you get the picture. There is a reason it's called pseudo....... It ain't real.

DFrost


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