# Joint Supplement



## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Jaeger is starting to have some trouble getting up after he's been laying down for a while, so I'm thinking it's time for a joint supplement (since he's mild HD). Someone who has one of Jaeger's brothers (who is also mild HD) uses this:

http://www.bullwrinkle.com/index.html?ShoppingPages/glycoflex.htm~indexmain

She has great results with it. I was actually thinking about the Joint Max Triple Strength, though (the link to it is at the bottom of that page...\"Compare to NEW Joint Max\"). What do you all think? Can you make any better suggestions?

Alicia


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> Jaeger is starting to have some trouble getting up after he's been laying down for a while, so I'm thinking it's time for a joint supplement (since he's mild HD). Someone who has one of Jaeger's brothers (who is also mild HD) uses this: http://www.bullwrinkle.com/index.html?ShoppingPages/glycoflex.htm~indexmain..
> She has great results with it. I was actually thinking about the Joint Max Triple Strength, though (the link to it is at the bottom of that page...\"Compare to NEW Joint Max\"). What do you all think? Can you make any better suggestions?...Alicia


As I recall, that's minerals with glucosamine and a little MSM?

Does it contain chondroitin, which hasn't panned out the way glucosamine has? If it does not, I'd consider that an indication that they have updated their research. :>)

(BTW, the recent studies showing less benefit than expected from glucosamine on humans who were elderly and in advanced states of OA did not convince me, because of the size of the study, the length of it, and the fact that it measured only the participants' determination of knee pain, and not any evidence of cartilage repair.......and other reasons, too.)

First stage pf joint problems, for me, calls for glucosamine (human quality), plus fish muscle oil and Vitamin E (they work together) and MSM.

The glucosamine's benefit is to support actual regrowth of cartilage, and the salmon oil (with Vitamin E) is a major anti-inflammation agent. MSM may help with both these aspects of support.

So if the product contains the amount of glucosamine, etc., you want to give, and doesn't require that you buy extra of one or more of the ingredients (which kind of defeats the purpose of the all-in-one formula), then I'd say why not? On the other hand, if it costs a fortune, and if the individual ingredients do not, then......it's up to you.

Either way, I would definitely want to give pharmaceutical-grade distilled* salmon (not fish LIVER) oil, plus the extra Vitamin E that oil supplements for dogs require, besides.

I have a link to the list of companies that voluntarily meet the highest fish oil standards, and will find and post it.

I would make a list of these items and call the vet asking about specific dosages. For the fish oil, I use the amount recommended on the bottle for humans and adjust it by weight for the dog, assuming that it refers to a 150-pound human. Again, though, the vet will help you, and probably with just a call.


*to leave behind heavy metals, like mercury


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*fish oil monograph*

Here's the URL to a list of top-quality fish oil companies. There are others as good, I'm sure -- but this list simplifies matters.  

http://www.crnusa.org/o3group.html


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

If it is a youngish dog that is already having problems & is Dx with HD, I personally would go to something like Cosequin. I would most likely pass over the cheaper alternatives in this situation. It is $$$$ but works very well. It has been used with horses with great succcess form many years & is working well with dogs. I would use the cheaper alternatives as a support for a young dog before the problem arises. My dogs are on a gags formula & have been since young as a joint support preventative. JMO


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Anne Jones said:


> If it is a youngish dog that is already having problems & is Dx with HD, I personally would go to something like Cosequin. I would most likely pass over the cheaper alternatives in this situation. It is $$$$ but works very well. It has been used with horses with great succcess form many years & is working well with dogs. I would use the cheaper alternatives as a support for a young dog before the problem arises. My dogs are on a gags formula & have been since young as a joint support preventative. JMO


Yes, if you do decide to use chondroitin with the glucosamine, Cosequin (Nutramax), a glucosamine-chondroitin product of high quality, has what appears to be a better-absorbed formula for chondroitin. 

And glycosaminoglycans (gags) is another anti-inflammatory agent that I should've mentioned, too! That's a good idea, Anne, about using it as a preventative. 

I use glucosamine starting at adulthood similarly; maybe glycosaminoglycans is a better plan. Do you use both as early support, or the glycosaminoglycans alone?

I think of joint support for GSDs and all large working dogs as being one of the most important health gifts we can give them -- equal to a great diet, IMO.

Thanks, Anne!


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## Alicia Mertz (Mar 28, 2006)

Wow, that is a lot of information. Thank you!  

I'm looking over the ingredients list now, and the Joint Max TS DOES have Chondroitin. The same website markets a product that doesn't, though, called Gycoflex III. It contains Perna canaliculus, Glucosamine HCl, Dimethylglycine, Methylsulfonylmethane, Manganese, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Selenium, Grape Seed Extract, and Glutathione.

I don't see any that have fish oil, but I'm going to check out the site you sent me, Connie. Thanks for the link!




Anne Jones said:


> I personally would go to something like Cosequin. I would most likely pass over the cheaper alternatives in this situation. It is $$$$ but works very well. It has been used with horses with great succcess form many years & is working well with dogs.


Anne, I've bred and trained horses for years, so I am familiar with Cosequin. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I guess because I'm so used to it being associated with horses... Thank you very much for the suggestion.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Let me back up and say that there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with chondroitin.....it just hasn't shown the results expected and many companies and vet colleges that recommended the combo of glucosamine and chondroitin now don't think the chondroitin is worth adding.

JMO!

Also, Cosequin has what they believe is a better-acting form of it.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2006)

Alicia, do a search for Adequan. I'll email you-I have pictures of xrays before and after Adequan. Amazing. It's supposed to actually help the wear/repair cycle of cartilage, which helps the arthritis associated w/HD. The pain occurs as the cartilage wears, and the bones are coming in contact w/each other. It comes in horse and dog formulas. I use the horse-cheaper (more concentrated) and easier to get, since no one will give me a prescription for anything but Rimadyl.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Alicia, do a search for Adequan. I'll email you-I have pictures of xrays before and after Adequan. Amazing. It's supposed to actually help the wear/repair cycle of cartilage, which helps the arthritis associated w/HD. The pain occurs as the cartilage wears, and the bones are coming in contact w/each other. It comes in horse and dog formulas. I use the horse-cheaper (more concentrated) and easier to get, since no one will give me a prescription for anything but Rimadyl.


Adequan is \"gags\" (above), or polysulfated glycosaminoglycans. Like glucosamine, and very similar to it chemically, glycosaminoglycans is supposed to actually rebuild worn cartilage, as Jenni says.

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Adequan.htm

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/k9geriatrics.24.html

http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadyl.alt.html


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Alicia Mertz said:


> Wow, that is a lot of information. Thank you!
> 
> I'm looking over the ingredients list now, and the Joint Max TS DOES have Chondroitin. The same website markets a product that doesn't, though, called Gycoflex III. It contains Perna canaliculus, Glucosamine HCl, Dimethylglycine, Methylsulfonylmethane, Manganese, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Selenium, Grape Seed Extract, and Glutathione.
> 
> I don't see any that have fish oil, but I'm going to check out the site you sent me, Connie. Thanks for the link!........


Right.....it's too \"big\" for anything but a separate bottle of liquid or a gel-cap.


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