# Q



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

What is it about all the books, video/dvd´s and things for trainingknowledge? I only know the verbal communication (in person) on a club to learn something. 
Only basic pet ob is here to find in a book, for newbie owners.

Is it cause of the big distances (see a lot of 2-3 hrs drives...If i drive for 2-3 hours, Im in belgium or Germany)


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Part of it is distance -- some people consider themselves LUCKY if a 2-3 hour drive will get them someone worth training with. Some people just don't have anyone unless they drive 10 hours to train. Some people have someone to train with that is close, but the person trains in a way they don't like, or isn't a good trainer. There's alot of idiots in the dog world and lots of different ways to train. Having Books and DVD's for information is a nice way to look at lots of different methods. Bernard Flinks has a specific style in which he trains thru drive, Ivan Balabanov has a similar style that he teaches... not everyone can fly accross the country to come train with Ivan Balabanov, or has the ability to attend a Bernard Flinks seminar, so instead they buy their videos or books so they can see what another trainer does. Other people who are very new to working dogs may want to see more about training before going to a club... it also helps teach someone who is new to training if their local club is a good club or not, there's alot of bad trainers everywhere, so having a little more information helps. I have some DVD's from Leerburg, no books, I don't learn well from books, I need to see and do... the DVD's aren't that great either, I've learnt some things from Bernard Flinks n picked up some miscellaneous information from watching the DVD's, but overall nothing comes close to going out and training yourself with a good trainer. But I'll tell you this much -- if I had to drive 10 hours to train my dog, I would never train my dog :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I can never get enough training info in my head. Been messing with dog training all my life but figure there's always something new out there. I drove 8 hours for a Flinks seminar. When I was doing AKC obedience in the 80s I must have hit 3-4 seminars a year. Some good, some great, some sucked, but I learned just a bit more from each one.
I think learning new ways with a video or books will only help if you have a good underestanding of a dog's thinking. Otherwise your just going through the motions.


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## Elly Elsenaar (Mar 27, 2006)

I think here in Holland we were very lucky, every place has a few clubs KNPV , IPO, Obiedience etc, our choice is so big, Most breeds have their own club.

When I look arround in my area, I know allready many, we share our place with a Dobermannclub, and a NBG = IPO club and our neighbours is also a NBG and at the otherside of the road their is a KNPV. 

Bad trainers they are everywhere, but because Holland is a small country you know almost eachother, correct me if I am wrong, Selena. So mostly you know were to train, lots of clubs visit eachother, so you share some knowlegde.

So may be that is the different between different country, if it takes so much time to go to your trainingsfield, may be you try to read more about it?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I think my area (St. Louis Missouri) is unusual for here in the states. We have 3-4 clubs within about 2 hrs. Only one that I'd go to is the one I'm at. To much old time, beat the crap out of the dog type trainers at some of the other clubs. JMHO!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

In my own city (Almere) there are in a 10-15 minute drive: 3 KNPV clubs on a row. Otherside of the city they are a Kynologenclub (something like AKC i guess), 1 NBG (=IPO), 1 NVBH (belgian shepherds), a dobie/rotti club and i think I´m forgetting 1.

I´m aquinted to many people in KNPV in the nereby regions in person, almost all in my own region (the one with the least competers). Know some IPO people, most of my former region, and some that I know ´cause my father trained both sports.

Just wondered about it, but most of you could´nt probably imagine how it is over here (except the ones who visited dogpeople over here). 
I already sigh when I´ve to drive 60-75 minutes next saturday to see Carmen compete in her first trial or to drive the same distance to see/train with her. ´Cause of the 90 + min drive I haven´t visited Inge yet


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

St. Louis is in the middle of the USA. It would take a couple of days driving to cross from one coats to the other. 

psssst! Where Connie lives, on the West Coast. There all crazy out there!
Don't tell her I said that though. :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink: 
Same with the East coast too.    :wink:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> St. Louis is in the middle of the USA. It would take a couple of days driving to cross from one coats to the other.
> 
> psssst! Where Connie lives, on the West Coast. There all crazy out there!
> Don't tell her I said that though. :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:
> Same with the East coast too.    :wink:


Well, you have covered my entire life, Bob: grew up near Boston and now live on the left edge of the continent!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Elly Elsenaar said:


> ......So may be that is the different between different country, if it takes so much time to go to your trainingsfield, may be you try to read more about it?


Correct, for many, many people.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Elly Elsenaar said:
> 
> 
> > ......So may be that is the different between different country, if it takes so much time to go to your trainingsfield, may be you try to read more about it?
> ...


I think your country might be 20,000 square miles and this one is maybe 300,000+ square miles.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sorry Connie! Luvs ya!  :wink: 

In adition to the distance here, I think people in the USA have very different ideas about bite traind dogs. For the most part, the just don't get it!
To many people ready to call the lawyers. :roll:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Sorry Connie! Luvs ya!  :wink:
> 
> In adition to the distance here, I think people in the USA have very different ideas about bite traind dogs. For the most part, the just don't get it!
> To many people ready to call the lawyers. :roll:


And too many lawyers with their hand on the telephone receiver, waiting!


P.S. I'll slap you, Bob, if I am ever in the hinterlands where you live.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Well I always knew West Coast was a lil whacky... but East Coast aint bad... maybe I'm biased?  :lol: :lol:

Within 15 minutes from my house I have.... Disney World and 50 or 60 restaurants (no joke, I live in the tourist part of town), 8 supermarkets and 5 mcdonalds, as well as a whole lot of other touristy type crap lol.

I drive 45 minutes to get to training 2-4 times a week... every 2nd Thursday I drive to Plant City to train with the Schutzhund club there, which is 1 hour drive for me. There are I think 3 other Schutzhund clubs within an hour from me, but I don't know anything about them. I'm not a Schutzhund person myself, the only reason I train with them in Plant City is because my trainer is the training director for their club, so 45 minutes to Ed's house or 60 minutes to Plant City doesn't make much difference to me.

Patrick Murray lives about 40 minutes from me, n I go there at least once a week.

I live in the middle of everything, so it's not like I'm out in the boonies... I think if I lived out in the boonies I wouldn't have to drive so far to train :lol:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Sorry Connie! Luvs ya!  :wink:
> 
> In adition to the distance here, I think people in the USA have very different ideas about bite traind dogs. For the most part, the just don't get it!
> To many people ready to call the lawyers. :roll:


It took me almost a year of slowly introducing the concept to one of my friends because I was scared they wouldn't trust my dog around their kids if they knew I trained him to bite... maybe they would have understood if I just told em straight out -- but they now know what I do in training n they don't really say anything about it.... my friend who was a Sgt in the army thinks its cool, but other people I think get a little nervous about it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> ......It took me almost a year of slowly introducing the concept to one of my friends because I was scared they wouldn't trust my dog around their kids if they knew I trained him to bite... maybe they would have understood if I just told em straight out -- but they now know what I do in training n they don't really say anything about it.... my friend who was a Sgt in the army thinks its cool, but other people I think get a little nervous about it.


It's funny, isn't it, that so many people don't grasp the concept of training..... that the untrained dog who sees himself as the pack leader is the real wild card.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Cujo is an awesome dog to demonstrate this kinda training with, because he is the sweetest nicest laziest dog when he's not working.... so you can show people this really quiet mannered german shepherd who loves everyone n will lick you to death... then tell em "this dog is trained to bite", n it kinda helps. It's alot easier than showing em this dog that's trying to rip apart his crate barking at people n say "yeah I bite trained this dog" :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Cujo is an awesome dog to demonstrate this kinda training with, because he is the sweetest nicest laziest dog when he's not working.... so you can show people this really quiet mannered german shepherd who loves everyone n will lick you to death... then tell em "this dog is trained to bite", n it kinda helps. It's alot easier than showing em this dog that's trying to rip apart his crate barking at people n say "yeah I bite trained this dog" :lol:


Excellent point!! LOL!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Cujo is an awesome dog to demonstrate this kinda training with, because he is the sweetest nicest laziest dog when he's not working.... so you can show people this really quiet mannered german shepherd who loves everyone n will lick you to death... then tell em "this dog is trained to bite", n it kinda helps. It's alot easier than showing em this dog that's trying to rip apart his crate barking at people n say "yeah I bite trained this dog" :lol:


 On any given night there might be a half dozen neighbor kids, ages 5-12 on my front yard, playing fetch with Thunder. I don't have the heart to tell their moms he's bite trained.  :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> ..... On any given night there might be a half dozen neighbor kids, ages 5-12 on my front yard, playing fetch with Thunder. I don't have the heart to tell their moms he's bite trained.  :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> What is it about all the books, video/dvd´s and things for trainingknowledge? I only know the verbal communication (in person) on a club to learn something.
> Only basic pet ob is here to find in a book, for newbie owners.
> 
> Is it cause of the big distances (see a lot of 2-3 hrs drives...If i drive for 2-3 hours, Im in belgium or Germany)


I don't think it's necessarily a distance thing. For new dog people not affiliated with or able to spend a lot of times at their respective clubs, DVDs and the like are often a great way (or the best way?) for them to learn about proper training technique. Books are great as well, but it's hard to replicate seeing a dog moving and interacting with a trainer on film.


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