# opinions on OB



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

here's the question (and i realize it's gonna be kinda like "do DDR GSD produce bad hips or good hips?"), but seriously, does OB work-other than basics- inhibit bitework, therefore shouldn't be done until after bitework's started?

what i'm thinking is that i can do a lot more OB w/Brix as long as it's purely motivational and it won't affect his bitework. However, if it will, i won't. BTW, we'll start regular bitework training end of march if the weather holds. he's just 12 months old now.

what do you guys think?


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

As long as it's all motivational, it's not going to hurt anything. My TD (Jak & Jessie's breeder) does not do ANYTHING with puppies, and doesn't start doing any bitework until they are a year old, but he told me when I asked that I could do motivational stuff if I wanted to, but not to give any physical corrections. He's very old-school about many things, but from what I've been told, it's best to stick to motivational OB training until after bitework if you're a beginner.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

We start OB from day one with puppys. As Kristen commented, ALL motivational, as is our bite work. 
We start all our OB with marker training and food. Once the dog fully understands the exercise and has a bit of control we go to the tug for a reward. 
With that, you need to know proper tug work or that can mess up the grips. 
At 3yrs old, Thunder has never had a physical correction for training mistakes.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've never seen Ob interfer with bite work. In fact I think it's a good foundation for almost everything we do in dog training. A semblence of control, before bitework even starts gives the dog a comfort zone, when training starts to pressure them. 

DFrost


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> I've never seen Ob interfer with bite work. In fact I think it's a good foundation for almost everything we do in dog training. A semblence of control, before bitework even starts gives the dog a comfort zone, when training starts to pressure them.
> 
> DFrost


Amen!


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

David Frost said:


> I've never seen Ob interfer with bite work. In fact I think it's a good foundation for almost everything we do in dog training. A semblence of control, before bitework even starts gives the dog a comfort zone, when training starts to pressure them.
> 
> DFrost


Amen too. 

Dog Training revolves around Obedience. Properly laid OB does not interfere but rather compliments all other "drives" as well.

My opinion...


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I agree with you guys. Everything your dog does stems off of OB. Just I don't teach the out till much later. I do teach it for giving me the toys and later he knows what it means. Then I make it a must only after his drives are very good on the sleeve then suit.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

You guys have to remember that us newbies to bitework can do a lot, while trying to teach obedience (using compulsion), that can mess up how well the dog will do in bitework later on, because the dog may fear being corrected for things like pulling on the leash, or being a little rambunctious/'out of control,' etc. I think that's the main reason that we are told to keep everything all motivational at least until bitework has already been started. 

I think.


Good point about knowing how to play tug properly, too.


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

You dont have to do obedience to screw one up!


For Sch, the most logical thing to do is not do bitework till the dog is much older.That way the chance of messing them up is minimized and you dont teach them to play stupid games in protection work.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

thanks for the input, people  i feel much better now; the only correction brix's ever had has been for trying to charge out the door--and then the door corrected him, not me. oh-and "the knee" got him a couple of times for jumping on people.

and i was glad to hear about "aus" for toys; brix is really good at it, but it's the only time we use it (my daughter taught him in about 2 trys when he was probably 5 months old. while i was at work.... :wink: ).

so we'll just stick w/treats and his ball-on-a-string 'cause they make him HAPPY!!!


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## Greg Leavitt (Aug 31, 2006)

I start all of my pupies in obedience always out of motivation. when they are a little older i use a tug to get their heeling solid and will use it for their sitz and platz and incorporate the sit into like abark and hold always in drive. No major corrections until I am polishing and the dog is nearly finished. This seems to work very well for me as I have had puppies as young as 6 or so months whos obedience was sch 1 level all out of drive.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Our motivational training includes the bite work. I've heard many comments about motivational can work till the dog sees the sleeve/suit then you need compulsion for control.
Loss of reward is HUGE for a dog that is trained motivationally. 
No need to pinch, jerk, shock a dog when he realizes all he has to do is fuss correctly with eye contact on the handler in order to get the bite. When the dog finds correct position it's Packen time!
The drive stays WAY up and dog and handler still like one another at the end of the day.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

and, i read an article the other day in which the author's premise was that OB is the MOST important part of protection work--control, control, control. he heels his dog to the field as the previous person's finishing bitework, requires a sit or platz, a short OB work before any bitework. if the dog doesn't work the OB, back to the crate he goes, no bite that day.

really interesting article...i would link it, but it won't let me  

www.finographics.com/schutzhund/obedience11.html
the second article, it's by Jerry Bradshaw.


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## Mark Busby (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm pretty much on the same page as everyone else on this topic, it's funny though as I can remember several years back training with an individual that had that thought proccess about OB. Hadn't even remembered that theory till now!

8)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

ann freier said:


> and, i read an article the other day in which the author's premise was that OB is the MOST important part of protection work--control, control, control. he heels his dog to the field as the previous person's finishing bitework, requires a sit or platz, a short OB work before any bitework. if the dog doesn't work the OB, back to the crate he goes, no bite that day.
> 
> really interesting article...i would link it, but it won't let me
> 
> ...


Is this the link? 
http://www.finographics.com/schutzhund/obedience/control_attention_fundamentals.htm


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

yes, thanks Connie! it wouldn't let me "copy/paste", and as you know, i'm JUST AS GOOD a techie as you and woody  

anyway, i thought it was a good perspective.


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