# Are Dogs Trained to Bite ..... Weapons ?



## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

YES, dogs that bite are weapons


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

*weap·on*

   /ˈwɛp







ən/  Show Spelled[*wep*-_uh







_n]  Show IPA 
*–noun *1. any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon. 

2. anything used against an opponent, adversary, or victim: _the deadly weapon of satire. _

3. _Zoology _. any part or organ serving for attack or defense, as claws, horns, teeth, or stings. 


*–verb (used with object) *4. to supply or equip with a weapon or weapons: _to weapon aircraft with heat-seeking missiles. _




Use *weapon* in a Sentence


See images of *weapon*


Search *weapon* on the Web

*Origin: *


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## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

My Urban SAR team trains on a military base. When I was new to the team and stopped at the guard, he asked me if I had any weapons in the car.....besides the dog. So even a 'non-biting' dog is considered a weapon to some.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

no, its a sport. does taking Tai Chi make you a trained killer?

reminds me of the old joke

woman: you're teaching children to shoot? that's irresponsible your equipping them to be violent killers.
Man: well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, are you?


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Haha that's good Mike!

Yes.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jennifer Michelson said:


> My Urban SAR team trains on a military base. When I was new to the team and stopped at the guard, he asked me if I had any weapons in the car.....besides the dog. So even a 'non-biting' dog is considered a weapon to some.


Yeah I get asked about every 2nd time or so going across the border "if I have any weapons in my possession". It's funny as while I don't ever have a firearm I have a seat belt cutting lock blade, water rescue rope and a small tomahawk for breaking car windows and prying doors if I ever came along a wreck. Hard to take the first responder out of me I guess, let alone the 2 Malinois in the back of the van. I guess there is lots that 'could' be weapons.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't consider my PSD(Patrol/Narc) a weapon . It's Primary job is as a LOCATING TOOL (badguys , evidence , narcotics , tracking , etc. )


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Jim Nash said:


> I don't consider my PSD(Patrol/Narc) a weapon . It's Primary job is as a LOCATING TOOL (badguys , evidence , narcotics , tracking , etc. )


True Jim, however most are non professional. Then you get into the court system blah, blah. We had a lawsuit the other week in my neighborhood, bad guy jumped the "private" fence, rotti took care of business. Now the dog is quarantined and the case is being accepted to hearing by the courts. Arghhh.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

This is not an easy answer . If we are talking in a general context as far as PSDs , be they Patrol or single purpose Detector dogs the answer is no . If the question is asked in a much broader context the answer is almost anything can be considered a weapon depending on how it's used . I've used the example of a spoon before . In general it's not considered a weapon but if you use it in a way to harm someone in that situation it's considered a weapon . 

I guess if you train a dog where it's PRIMARY purpose fall under the definition of a weapon then you have a weapon (in general speakl) . If your dogs PRIMARY purpose doesn't fall under the defintion of a weapon in general it's not a weapon . Sematics and context make this a difficult question to answer unless it's more specific .


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

I agree 100%


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

This one yes, for that was the intent in which I purchased him. The same as the handgun I bought. Both are for my protection but I don't actively look for someone to shoot or my dog to bite.


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## Chad Brezina (Aug 10, 2010)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> True Jim, however most are non professional. Then you get into the court system blah, blah. We had a lawsuit the other week in my neighborhood, bad guy jumped the "private" fence, rotti took care of business. Now the dog is quarantined and the case is being accepted to hearing by the courts. Arghhh.


 
So if you have a trained protection dog and someone is in your yard tresspassing and your dog is protecting and doing it's job why would a dog being quarantined? When is it a situation when your dog is doing the right thing by attacking. If there is a potential threat and the dog neutralizes the threat why is that illegal? Its not like you are firing a gun at the persons head and trying to kill them, you are just neutralizing the threat. Shouldn't the government reward the person for choosing a dog over a gun? It just doesn't make sense that a person tresspassing is illegal but you can't do anything to stop it either.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Chad Brezina said:


> So if you have a trained protection dog and someone is in your yard tresspassing and your dog is protecting and doing it's job why would a dog being quarantined? When is it a situation when your dog is doing the right thing by attacking. If there is a potential threat and the dog neutralizes the threat why is that illegal? Its not like you are firing a gun at the persons head and trying to kill them, you are just neutralizing the threat. Shouldn't the government reward the person for choosing a dog over a gun? It just doesn't make sense that a person tresspassing is illegal but you can't do anything to stop it either.


Well, its a tough and annoying situation. Let's face it, anyone can sue over anything. The problem is in the court system. What can be common sense to us is perpetual to them. Was their no trespassing signs, beware of dog, owners ever been in violation with said dog, blah, blah. That doesn't mean the courts will grant the guy anything, but it is a hassle for the home owner. All citizen dog bites are subject to quarantine. No surprise there.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> Well, its a tough and annoying situation. Let's face it, anyone can sue over anything. The problem is in the court system. What can be common sense to us is perpetual to them. Was their no trespassing signs, beware of dog, owners ever been in violation with said dog, blah, blah. That doesn't mean the courts will grant the guy anything, but it is a hassle for the home owner. All citizen dog bites are subject to quarantine. No surprise there.



There's a lot that we don't know about that part. Someone jumping my fence is on my property, therefore trespassing, but unless they are armed, they aren't a "threat" - just a trespasser. I imagine if one of the dogs nails him, I'm in trouble, whether he's on my fence or not. 

Kind of like if someone jumps my fence and I shoot him, it's not really a righteous shoot unless he has a weapon and I can get my ass in a sling for this. 
If he jumps my fence and walks through my open back door, and I kill him - it's beyond trespassing and more in the line of burglary, home invasion, etc.

Kind of depends on where you are too. Places like AZ and Colorado are much more "weapon friendly" than say California or New York.

But as for the poll, a dog isn't necessarily a weapon out right, but that doesn't mean it can't be used as one.


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## Chad Brezina (Aug 10, 2010)

ok, so you tell the person to get out of your yard or you will release the dog, and if they get out, Great. If they refuse or pose a threat and then you release the dog is a better way to go about it. I live in AZ and I think if someone is on your property, tresspassing, you are eligible to shoot them (or release your dog). That's just what I've heard, not sure on the truth of that.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Chad Brezina said:


> ok, so you tell the person to get out of your yard or you will release the dog, and if they get out, Great. If they refuse or pose a threat and then you release the dog is a better way to go about it. I live in AZ and I think if someone is on your property, tresspassing, you are eligible to shoot them (or release your dog). That's just what I've heard, not sure on the truth of that.


I'm also from Arizona. We are just stationed in Colorado for now.


> A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304, manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904,  or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.
> B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using PHYSICAL FORCE OR deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.
> C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if he THE PERSON is acting to prevent the commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section.
> *D. THIS SECTION IS NOT LIMITED TO THE USE OR THREATENED USE OF PHYSICAL OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE IN A PERSON'S HOME, RESIDENCE, PLACE OF BUSINESS, LAND THE PERSON OWNS OR LEASES, CONVEYANCE OF ANY KIND, OR ANY OTHER PLACE IN THIS STATE WHERE A PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO BE. *
> ...


http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/47leg/2r/laws/0199.htm

Going by that, you cannot legally shoot someone who is *only* trespassing - they have to be committing a crime to use force. Trespassing is not the kind of "crime" that justifies it - more in the way of felonies.

Even the part I bolded, I would be super inclined to not be forced to shoot someone if it can be avoided - lots of paperwork involved in that.
So, long story short. If I had a trespasser in my yard back home that I told to leave, and they didn't, but they were posing no other threat to me than just being a pain in my ass...I'm going to call the cops and stay inside with the gun/dog. I would NOT go out and threaten them because that leaves me open to BS and if you threaten someone, you should be willing to follow through with it. 



The above quote is for educational purpose only though, if you want to know the exact terms, I'd contact an attorney. 



Sorry to derail your thread but I doubt you're going to get too many people owning up to their dog biting someone anyway.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Ashley that is spot on. No matter what "weapon" you have, if you are not in immediate harm then you subject yourself to possible legal problems.

Like Ashley said, always call the cops before making a decision that could hurt you in the long run.

Remember shoot the perp, then drag him in the house. 

Some years ago, they're was a guy who broke into a garage. He got trapped, owners were on vacation. The guy almost died from lack of food/water. The guy sued, and the court heard his case. You guys remember this story? I can't Remember all the details.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

So far a majority of people who responded to this poll say .. Weapon.

OK, Then when does the dog cross over to weapon status?

Our intent or dogs ability?

jc


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

any dog has the ability


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Can I take it then, that if my dog is not trained to bite, but chews the crap out of someone being physically aggressive with me, the dog isn't a weapon because of the lack of training?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Can I take it then, that if my dog is not trained to bite, but chews the crap out of someone being physically aggressive with me, the dog isn't a weapon because of the lack of training?


Do weapons go off by themselves?

You might have a loose cannon Don.

I think a weapon is something that is used with the handler's intention. I choose to employ a gun, knife or dog. So if your dog isn't bite trained can you reliably direct the "force" of your dog upon something else? I don't think so.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Nope, Can't direct their force onto something else cause I am not familiar with the technique. If I tell them "NO", they will stand down. Been there and done that. One dog was already aireborne and planted both feet in the guys chest. The other pulled off at the last second and slammed into his knee sideways. Doesn't "NO" work anymore? How do you redirect when there isn't a second to spare?

My question is, Would I be less liable if a dog took someone down than a person that had actually trained the dog to bite? Seems it kinda shows intent if they are trained for it.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Nope, Can't direct their force onto something else cause I am not familiar with the technique. If I tell them "NO", they will stand down. Been there and done that. One dog was already aireborne and planted both feet in the guys chest. The other pulled off at the last second and slammed into his knee sideways. Doesn't "NO" work anymore? How do you redirect when there isn't a second to spare?
> 
> My question is, Would I be less liable if a dog took someone down than a person that had actually trained the dog to bite? Seems it kinda shows intent if they are trained for it.



Seems you have more of a booby trap than anything else.

When I had my home broken into, I discussed with the police officer about my dogs biting an intruder. He flat out told me, legally in AZ, I would be better off shooting a person dead then having a dog bite somebody.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Nope, Can't direct their force onto something else cause I am not familiar with the technique. If I tell them "NO", they will stand down. Been there and done that. One dog was already aireborne and planted both feet in the guys chest. The other pulled off at the last second and slammed into his knee sideways. Doesn't "NO" work anymore? How do you redirect when there isn't a second to spare?
> 
> My question is, Would I be less liable if a dog took someone down than a person that had actually trained the dog to bite? Seems it kinda shows intent if they are trained for it.


thats why you say you had no idea the dog was gonna bite the guy... after you hide the suits and muzzles


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Basically, you are liable for your dogs action. Period.

If your dog engages on a person then you are almost certainly going to be in some sort of legal controversy. Whether it is criminal or civil. You might come out clean, however you will probably go through it. Remember you have to react in seconds in some situations, but the courts will break down your every move and decision like you had days to react.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> Basically, you are liable for your dogs action. Period.
> 
> If your dog engages on a person then you are almost certainly going to be in some sort of legal controversy. Whether it is criminal or civil. You might come out clean, however you will probably go through it. Remember you have to react in seconds in some situations, but the courts will break down your every move and decision like you had days to react.


I realize I am definitely liable for what my dogs do, but, I have to wonder if I may come out a bit cleaner if the dogs have not been trained for bitework. Seems to me the training is going to put a different perspective on things ....say in a jurys view.

Chris, seems to me when I took the course for a CC permit, we had a similar discussion and though they wouldn't say it outright, I got the general impression if one of the dogs got someone, I would be better off just shooting them. As for the booby trap, I don't know. I come home and find notes on my door from PG&E and others and they have to come through one of the dog yards to get to the house. They are really pretty cool with people. They won't let anyone touch them unless I am there. The only times they have amped up is when someone challenged them or they perceived I was in danger.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> Seems you have more of a booby trap than anything else.
> 
> When I had my home broken into, I discussed with the police officer about my dogs biting an intruder. He flat out told me, legally in AZ, I would be better off shooting a person dead then having a dog bite somebody.


Yep, because dead people don't testify against you.



> I realize I am definitely liable for what my dogs do, but, I have to wonder if I may come out a bit cleaner if the dogs have not been trained for bitework. Seems to me the training is going to put a different perspective on things ....say in a jurys view.
> 
> Chris, seems to me when I took the course for a CC permit, we had a similar discussion and though they wouldn't say it outright, I got the general impression if one of the dogs got someone, I would be better off just shooting them. As for the booby trap, I don't know. I come home and find notes on my door from PG&E and others and they have to come through one of the dog yards to get to the house. They are really pretty cool with people. They won't let anyone touch them unless I am there. The only times they have amped up is when someone challenged them or they perceived I was in danger.


I think a lot of it has to do with circumstances. Basically, if you have the dog in the house, someone breaks in and the dog chews their face off - they have it coming. Not saying you won't have legal issues to contend with and a quarantine with the dog (whether vaccinated or not, 10 day mandatory quarantine for rabies). But again you'd probably do better shooting and killing them. 
A. as mentioned above, if they're dead, they can't testify against you
B. If your dog chews them up, they might have a slick attorney that can get them off on the B&E charge and then you might be up shit creek without a paddle, have the dog taken away, fined for medical bills, charged with pain and suffering, assault with a deadly weapon...etc etc.

If the perp is dead, they can't get pain and suffering/medical bills or lie about the circumstances. I'd only be inclined to use a dog as a last resort - i.e. dogs loose and my gun jams or something that belongs in one of Murphy's Laws happens. More than likely, if the perp has a weapon and you set a dog on them, you'll wind up with a dead dog and still have someone who is gunning for you.

God created Man, Samuel Colt made him equal.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

Don Turnipseed said:


> I realize I am definitely liable for what my dogs do, but, I have to wonder if I may come out a bit cleaner if the dogs have not been trained for bitework. Seems to me the training is going to put a different perspective on things ....say in a jurys view.
> 
> Chris, seems to me when I took the course for a CC permit, we had a similar discussion and though they wouldn't say it outright, I got the general impression if one of the dogs got someone, I would be better off just shooting them. As for the booby trap, I don't know. I come home and find notes on my door from PG&E and others and they have to come through one of the dog yards to get to the house. They are really pretty cool with people. They won't let anyone touch them unless I am there. The only times they have amped up is when someone challenged them or they perceived I was in danger.


It very well could be Don. However it could be debated that the said dog was trained for out. That the dog would only go for arms, not a dog with no training being portrayed as a loose cannon. 

It sounds silly but defense lawyers are smart enough to bring in neighbors, trainers, and who ever else. Does this dog have a prior record as a vicious dog, or "potentially dangerous" status. A jury can look at all possibilities.

I have always had 2 signs at my house.

Beware of dog and No trespassing. That don't guarantee me anything but it calms my nerves.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

when the cop was here, he said most bad guys don't know enough to litigate against a dog bite where he was the intruder and he said most officers probably wouldn't even say anything. But, shooting somebody in my house is a cut and dried situation and there are more favorable laws for me in AZ. I was told, all that would happen, is I would be detained and asked questions and would probably be back home within three hours and not hear about it again.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> I have always had 2 signs at my house.
> 
> Beware of dog and No trespassing. That don't guarantee me anything but it calms my nerves.


I like the signs too, but my landlord will not let me post any - they said their homeowners insurance consider it a liability to have signs because then "you know the dog is dangerous" - slippery slope on that one.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

anyone can sue for anything
just depends on court and your attorney
my philosophy is that ALL dogs bite. I can prove that
I train mine to listen to me regardless of distractions, even a fight, and only bite when and if i tell him
i also train a bark and hold, proof that the subject was being aggressive, if he was just standing still the dog wouldn't bite

there is no right or wrong, only convincing a jury, i know why and how i train and can testify under oath


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

I agree Mike.

Basically to the original OP. Basically any dog can be a weapon in certain situations. The question is good but also is vague. To have a dog in general that is bite trained or not, you assume a certain level of risk.


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

"Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat."


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## Tanya Beka (Aug 12, 2008)

Jeff Threadgill said:


> I have always had 2 signs at my house.
> 
> Beware of dog and No trespassing. That don't guarantee me anything but it calms my nerves.


From a completely legal stand point, "Dog in Yard" (with a picture of a dog) and "No Trespassing" are the best combination of signs and the least likely to get you in trouble if someone breaks into your yard and gets bit by your dog. It is more difficult for the plaintiff to make a case with Dog in Yard and No Trespassing because...

1. "Dog in Yard" tells people - hey, there is a dog in here! Haivng a picture as well is best because if someone is illiterate they can sue you for not having a picture of a dog on the sign for them to understand.
2. "No Trespassing" tells people "Stay out of my yard!"
3. "Beware of Dog" admits that you know your dog could be dangerous or might bite, which you don't want to admit from a legal point of view
4. "Guard Dog on Duty" signs are okay if the dog is professionally trained to be a guard dog and you have proof, paperwork, training logs etc to back it up, but otherwise can get you in more trouble.

Isn't the legal system fun???


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Tanya Beka said:


> From a completely legal stand point, "Dog in Yard" (with a picture of a dog) and "No Trespassing" are the best combination of signs and the least likely to get you in trouble if someone breaks into your yard and gets bit by your dog. It is more difficult for the plaintiff to make a case with Dog in Yard and No Trespassing because...
> 
> 1. "Dog in Yard" tells people - hey, there is a dog in here! Haivng a picture as well is best because if someone is illiterate they can sue you for not having a picture of a dog on the sign for them to understand.
> 2. "No Trespassing" tells people "Stay out of my yard!"
> ...


Best sign I know of is


Special Trained Dogs on Site


jc


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I know some PPD trainers like to train dogs to bite the weapon hand but it seems like training a dog to bite the actual weapon would be hard on the teeth?


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## Tanya Beka (Aug 12, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Best sign I know of is
> 
> 
> Special Trained Dogs on Site
> ...


Excellent! Never seen one, but sounds good. lol


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I know some PPD trainers like to train dogs to bite the weapon hand but it seems like training a dog to bite the actual weapon would be hard on the teeth?


Some even train them to catch bullets


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> I know some PPD trainers like to train dogs to bite the weapon hand but it seems like training a dog to bite the actual weapon would be hard on the teeth?


Oh, I have a question on that (sorry to derail). Do they teach to go for a hand with an object in it, or for a specific hand? As in, since about 91% of the population is right handed, do they teach the dog to go for the right hand, or is it just whatever hand has an object?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Oh, I have a question on that (sorry to derail). Do they teach to go for a hand with an object in it, or for a specific hand? As in, since about 91% of the population is right handed, do they teach the dog to go for the right hand, or is it just whatever hand has an object?


ooh boy...
start a new thread...title it "weapon hand?" \\/


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> ooh boy...
> start a new thread...title it "weapon hand?" \\/


Oh no thanks, I was looking for a simple answer, not to start WWIII, or is it WWIV by now? Maybe I'll go google and see what I come up with before I start a shit slinging thread. I only asked out of curiousity because I'm a lefty, so obviously everything I do is with my left hand, and was curious about that - not that you frequently meet the like 9% of the population that is off-handed or whatnot.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> - not that you frequently meet the like 9% of the population that is off-handed or whatnot.


I am left handed as well and found it interesting that in my line of work (Customs Broker) that a surprising number of the employees were left handed. Not to derail the topic, just commenting on what you said.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

You can train a dog to bite for sports, cleanly, full grips, etc. but, and for me this is a big but, you can't "train" a dog to guard home and family.

Both my GSDs bite well with full grips - that's what I bought them for - Schutzhund.

However, this has nothing to do with the dogs protective instincts. My Landseer would attack anyone who tried to near me offensively.

The same applies to the Fila Brasileiro but both were miserable Schutzhund dogs.

I know the older GSD would pack someone who tried to harm me.

Maybe the younger one, too. Last night we had the neighbours in for Cheese Fondue! They have Buster's sister, Boa, and hopefully, are used to monsters!

We let the younger GSD loose after the meal and, Darach, as is his wont, nerved them, whereby on their rejections, he uttered nasty barks. This dog absolutely loves people, kids, etc. but I have now realised will not accept "push-offs" from our guests.

Good to know


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Gillian Schuler said:


> My Landseer would attack anyone who tried to near me offensively.
> 
> The same applies to the Fila Brasileiro but both were miserable Schutzhund dogs.
> 
> ...


LOL an Arsenal


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> Best sign I know of is
> 
> 
> Special Trained Dogs on Site
> ...


 
No, best sign ever is "Never mind the dog, beware of owner" with a pic of a 45.


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## Jeff Threadgill (Jun 9, 2010)

At the old house I used to have sign posted that read,
Trespassing lessons offered by G.Shepherd, free of charge.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

This should shrink a few peckers 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp6fNIWT_5k


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

and for bob


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

very funny


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

Speaking of Signs

http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=beware of dog signs&v_t=client_searchbox


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

LOL Dangerous Dog Pics

http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=dangerous dog&v_t=client_searchbox


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I think a trained dog is neutral. COULD be used as a weapon. But in and of itself, not a weapon.

Kind of like a baseball bat, or an axe...not weapons unless you decide to use them as one...


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## Diana Abel (Aug 31, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> I think a trained dog is neutral. COULD be used as a weapon. But in and of itself, not a weapon.
> 
> Kind of like a baseball bat, or an axe...not weapons unless you decide to use them as one...


 
I agree and the dog should stay neutral until asked otherwise. :wink:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Diana Abel said:


> I agree and the dog should stay neutral until asked otherwise. :wink:


neutral or properly contained


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