# Police dog Vs. Sport dog



## Beth Koenig (Jul 4, 2011)

How would I describe the difference in mentality between a police dog and a sporty dog to a newby? I know the difference myself super well but am at a loss on how to describe it to a person new at handling a police dog and no experience in any sport. Thanks!


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## James Degale (Jan 9, 2009)

One gets paid the other does not. 

One bites real bad guys the other has a beer with them later. 

Where is Jeff when you need him!!!!


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

I think the only person that can really answer this question with any level of competency is someone that does both. I'm looking forward from hearing from that person.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Sport Dog = No contact Karate tournament
Police Dog = UFC


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

I think a lot has to do with training and experience. Almost all police dogs are from a sport background, whether KNPV,Ipo or whatever. Some will bite real suspects naturally while some need more experience to really fight a man. The important thing is that the dog is civil and committed to the bite regardless of what the suspect does. I don't care if he sees the suspect as a big rabbit as long as he bites hard and doesn't let go. I think most dogs don't go out of their way to look for a fight with a human. I've seen active police k9s doing good sport work and not trying to eat the helper, they know when its play time and when its time to fight a bad guy.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

use the search button on this forum...


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Beth Koenig said:


> How would I describe the difference in mentality between a police dog and a sporty dog to a newby? I know the difference myself super well but am at a loss on how to describe it to a person new at handling a police dog and no experience in any sport. Thanks!


I think it's very easy to describe. What we do ain't sport. It's not a game.

DFrost


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## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

I can only say from my experience here in Canada, having done both sport (schutzhund) and then police work and now French Ring,what I felt was the attitude with the police dogs I handled was they had to go 100% of the time ,no excuses. Whether it was too hot or too dry or whatever, the police dog had better be ready to work. With the sport dog the excuses are more tolerated as the consequences are not the same.
I can tolerate a police dog that will never do a proper heel, but I would never tolerate one that doesn't start looking for a track when commanded to do so ''even if it is too hot''. The bite work here is very secondary as tracking and detection work is the main part of our work, but if sent for a bite the police dog better go without hesitation no matter who he is sent at and no matter the opposition he will face once on the bite.
The good police dogs I have seen seem to like what they do so much that I always got the feeling they worked for themselves more than for me while the sport dogs worked more for me. Hope this makes some sense!
Mike


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

PSD- failure = possible loss human lives

Sport-failure = loss of points or bruised handler ego


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Good article here.
http://www.johnsoaresk9training.com/info/sportvsrealdogs.html


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

a sportsdog is a dog that will bring you the points home every single time you work it...as to where a policedog will not always bring you the points, has a mind of its own, a higher threshold of pain and endurance....a sportsdog will do the job on the field and a policedog will do the job on the field and in real life...but most of the times not as pretty as a sportsdog would do it.


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Faisal Khan said:


> Good article here.
> http://www.johnsoaresk9training.com/info/sportvsrealdogs.html


Thank you for posting this article, now how do we get it to all the people who need an explanation of what a sport dog is? While I myself do not need a working police dog I do want my dog to have all the same things a "police dog" needs except to air scent while in training for trials. In fact my currant young male has a lot of real working and police dogs in his pedigree and in my small training group we do envioromental "real life" situations for our dogs to bite, they just don't get to eat some flesh, not that I don't think they could. I understand not all "sport dogs" have that but were do people think the good sport dogs come from? real working lines that someone put the time and thought into their breeding. I had a converstaion with 3 police K9 officers just last week who had no clue about what a sport dog really was and compared them to their own dogs. I had really wished I had my young male there to train with their dogs to show them just what a "real dog" looks like after you get rid of the "sport dog lable" but what it comes down to is the lack of knowledge and understanding of the two.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Sport dog = pretty obedience, point scores mean the world, handler cries if they loose and give their dog away as they walk of the field, handler and dog complain oh its to hot - oh its too cold - oh its snowing, oh my god what is all this over stimulation of enviroments - oh please take me back to my quiet little pretty grassy field.:lol::lol::lol: sorry couldn't help myself.

Police dog = might not be pretty but I will get the ****ing job done boss, screw everything else going on around me I am on his ass and somebody's life might just depend on that, I like to work for my handler no matter what for 8 -12 hours at a clip per day / shift not 5 minutes on a field, dont worry I am not jute or linen fixated when you slip it I will still eat your ass and not thrash on this goofy ass toy you fed me, I am not always playing in play drive I can truly get civil and defensive on your ass and will fight you back jerk off. Oh yea we have the real bond with our handlers we just dont compete on a field and then get thrown in a cage and forgot about until the next club meeting.Alright now that we are done comparing can we go to a working dog job and go find some cigga weed or a stick of dynamite now.:wink:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Lisa Radcliffe said:


> I had a converstaion with 3 police K9 officers just last week who had no clue about what a sport dog really was and compared them to their own dogs. .


I can easily understand that. I've admitted on several occasions my lack of knowledge of sport dogs. I've learned a little, thanks to this board and some of the posters. Police dog, I do know a little about. 

DFrost


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

> Sport dog = pretty obedience, point scores mean the world, handler cries if they loose and give their dog away as they walk of the field, handler and dog complain oh its to hot - oh its too cold - oh its snowing, oh my god what is all this over stimulation of enviroments - oh please take me back to my quiet little pretty grassy field.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, I've seen that a lot here in the States and it boggles me. 

"It rains we can't train..." WHAT?!?!?!?! Get your lazy butt up and get out on the field.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Lisa Radcliffe said:


> I understand not all "sport dogs" have that but were do people think the good sport dogs come from? real working lines that someone put the time and thought into their breeding.


If you are defining "real working lines" as dogs doing police work, then I have to disagree with you. I see more police dogs from "sport lines" than I do sport dogs from "real working lines". And I see more dogs who are washed out of sport work going into police dog situations than I do washed out police dogs winding up in sport dog situations.

Some dogs can do police work, some dogs can do sport work, and some dogs can do both. With the last group the difference is simply where the dog ended up, and what job the human decided to give it. And a good breeding program IMO aims to produce dogs in the last category, that can do both.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> If you are defining "real working lines" as dogs doing police work, then I have to disagree with you. I see more police dogs from "sport lines" than I do sport dogs from "real working lines". And I see more dogs who are washed out of sport work going into police dog situations than I do washed out police dogs winding up in sport dog situations.
> 
> Some dogs can do police work, some dogs can do sport work, and some dogs can do both. With the last group the difference is simply where the dog ended up, and what job the human decided to give it. And a good breeding program IMO aims to produce dogs in the last category, that can do both.


The sport lines are considered working lines, and yes I agree. You want to aim for both. Sport&Real Job.

Those that are competing at world class level, usually have dogs that go into police, SAR (all over the world) and sport homes. 

A good sport dog has everything what it takes to be a good working dog. Now that sport dog may never be the world champion but he's definitely out there. 

Take Orry vom Gehrenmoos for example. He competed at the WUSV many times. He was an awesome sport dog and produced many many great dogs, going into SAR, to the Police, into other working homes and sport homes. 

He's already having sons climbing up the ladder and he's got lots of progeny in the US and Canada. 

A working dog only shows his real worth through his progeny. You can have the best sport dog in the world, if he's not passing it on to his sons and daughters, it's just a good sport dog. 
But if you have a dog that is passing on his good traits and you create dogs that go into sport&working homes, to the police, SAR and into the military, you've got a gem in your hands.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> With the last group the difference is simply where the dog ended up, and *what job the human decided to give it*.


I think this is the biggest difference. The dog has no idea if it's work is "real" or "sport" he only knows what his character and training tell him to do.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

PS: I never understood why people have to make a difference between the two. If you have a good dog, you have a good dog and a good dog can do both. Heck, even showlines have gems between their lines that are not only awesome showdogs but sport&working dogs. 

Xander von Fidelius is a V dog, coming out of showlines. He's also one hell of a Search and Rescue Dog in Germany. Not only that, he's qualified for the RH (Sport) World Championships and the German Nationals, he's competing in Schutzhund as well. 

He is a good dog. 

A good dog is a good dog and only the sky is the limit for a good dog.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Sport dog = pretty obedience, point scores mean the world, handler cries if they loose and give their dog away as they walk of the field, handler and dog complain oh its to hot - oh its too cold - oh its snowing, oh my god what is all this over stimulation of enviroments - oh please take me back to my quiet little pretty grassy field.:lol::lol::lol: sorry couldn't help myself.


Sounds like a people issue not a sport dog issue. 

There was a discussion at the neighborhood council meeting about cops ticketing. My neighbor made a very cool chart showing how fewer moving violations were given when it rained. The more rain, the fewer tickets. So I don't think it's just sport people that don't like to get out in bad weather. ;-)


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Christopher Smith said:


> Sounds like a people issue not a sport dog issue.
> 
> There was a discussion at the neighborhood council meeting about cops ticketing. My neighbor made a very cool chart showing how fewer moving violations were given when it rained. The more rain, the fewer tickets. So I don't think it's just sport people that don't like to get out in bad weather. ;-)


Growing up on a German Farm... there is a difference between people from the country and people from the city. City people are to comfortable to go outside during rain or bad weather, whereas people that grow up on a farm, they don't have that luxury to say no. 

You better get that hay in before the rain, you better go out get those horses in during a thunderstorm, and you better clean those kennels an feed the dogs and get those frozen pipes cleared before you go in and eat your own dinner... :-\" :mrgreen:

And you go out and train during rain, snow, humidity and heat... if you want to be good and better than others then you go out, doesn't matter what the weather or your own condition is.


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## Beth Koenig (Jul 4, 2011)

Great input, thank you!! What I am looking for is the mentality of the dog. The differences between the police dog and sport dog. Is the sport dog more reactive to correction therefore allowing training for prettier obedience, or fast outs, etc? 

Or is the police dog a harder-bred dog, not as sensitive to correction, with more a mindset for seriously injuring someone? (though i have met a lot of good police dogs that do their jobs well and bite hard and stay in the fight, without mean inetntion.)

I have met a lot of good police dogs that would not do well in sport (not ''sporty enough''), they are too hard of dogs. I have also met a lot of great sport dogs that would REALLY rock the police field...better that some other police dogs I have seen.

So what does that mean by ''too sporty''?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Sandra King said:


> PS: I never understood why people have to make a difference between the two.


Because they project their reasoning onto the dog. Look at most of the post above. Most of the answers people gave are people projecting their feelings onto the dog. Just look, one person claims that LEO dogs have "a higher threshold of pain and endurance". Really? Do you mean that if a person sells their sportdog to the cops....WHAMO PRESTO.... the dog's endurance and pain thresholds rise? Is it a pill? Radioactive bug bite? Do they mutate? :-?

Or this, "might not be pretty but I will get the ****ing job done". There is the same thing in schutzhund is called a rating of sufficient. 

Or this, "I felt was the attitude with the police dogs I handled was they had to go 100% of the time ,no excuses". I have had and know a ton of sportdogs and have yet to have one give me an excuse. But I'm open to the idea that I am out of sync with my dog and lacking communication skills. Is the excuse normally written or verbal? :-D


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Beth Koenig said:


> Great input, thank you!! What I am looking for is the mentality of the dog. The differences between the police dog and sport dog. Is the sport dog more reactive to correction therefore allowing training for prettier obedience, or fast outs, etc?


No the difference is what the handler want's to do with the dog and the character of the dog. 





> So what does that mean by ''too sporty''?


Just think about it. A dog that is "too sporty" must be really good at sport. And a really good sport dog sells for much, much more money than a police dog. So why in the hell would a person with an ounce of intelligence try to sell that dog to the cops, were he will not preform very well? Every time a cop, or PP handler for that matter, shows me a dog that is "too sporty", I see a dog that would suck at schutzhund too. So I think that that is a term that people use that don't know very much about sport.


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Harry Keely said:


> Sport dog = pretty obedience, point scores mean the world, handler cries if they loose and give their dog away as they walk of the field, handler and dog complain oh its to hot - oh its too cold - oh its snowing, oh my god what is all this over stimulation of enviroments - oh please take me back to my quiet little pretty grassy field.:lol::lol::lol: sorry couldn't help myself.
> 
> Police dog = might not be pretty but I will get the ****ing job done boss, screw everything else going on around me I am on his ass and somebody's life might just depend on that, I like to work for my handler no matter what for 8 -12 hours at a clip per day / shift not 5 minutes on a field, dont worry I am not jute or linen fixated when you slip it I will still eat your ass and not thrash on this goofy ass toy you fed me, I am not always playing in play drive I can truly get civil and defensive on your ass and will fight you back jerk off. Oh yea we have the real bond with our handlers we just dont compete on a field and then get thrown in a cage and forgot about until the next club meeting.Alright now that we are done comparing can we go to a working dog job and go find some cigga weed or a stick of dynamite now.:wink:


The op question was "difference in mentality between a police dog and a sport dog" The dog is not sitting around thinking about money,possible loss of life or how hot or cold out it is or how many points it might get on and on. A good dog just likes to do what it gets to do. IMO it's all up to genetics and what kind of training. But it all starts with the dog, a bit confusing when you factor in what that really means to different people. "sport dog"/"police dog" "good dog" "Bad Dog" how people read dogs. For me sport training is not all about picking a grassy field and having a glass of wine after with my dog. It's also not about getting the highest points,all though that would be great. It's not a walk in the park training when you have a good dog either it's just different training. There are a lot of police dogs that seem to get further in the system and then returned because they can't cut it as a police dog then get washed to a sport home and can't cut it there either then what? kinda like a race horse that makes no money and can't be a sport horse either. Maybe a very lucky pet ))


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## Beth Koenig (Jul 4, 2011)

Christopher Smith said:


> Because they project their reasoning onto the dog. Look at most of the post above. Most of the answers people gave are people projecting their feelings onto the dog. Just look, one person claims that LEO dogs have "a higher threshold of pain and endurance". Really? Do you mean that if a person sells their sportdog to the cops....WHAMO PRESTO.... the dog's endurance and pain thresholds rise? Is it a pill? Radioactive bug bite? Do they mutate? :-?
> 
> Or this, "might not be pretty but I will get the ****ing job done". There is the same thing in schutzhund is called a rating of sufficient.
> 
> Or this, "I felt was the attitude with the police dogs I handled was they had to go 100% of the time ,no excuses". I have had and know a ton of sportdogs and have yet to have one give me an excuse. But I'm open to the idea that I am out of sync with my dog and lacking communication skills. Is the excuse normally written or verbal? :-D


I have read that post as well, a few, about sport dogs giving excuses not to work. I do not think I have ever seen a sport dog give an excuse not to work (maybe 1 dog comes to mind, but that was a really bad working dog).. and especially at the sport clubs here in Europe, I have never seen a sport dog not work for any reason. Not so sure I understand that statement.

Maybe what they mean is the handler giving the dog excuses? A sport dog handler could be too hot, too cold, too tired, and has the option to give an excuse for the dog to not work (too hot, too rainy, too cold, etc. but it is all the dog's fault)........... but a police officer has no choice(if a suspect runs while its raining the officer cant say no to use the dog because its raining).

But I think the dogs would all work anyway when it comes down to it..100%. so i am not too sure I understand the statement ''the police dog gives 100% but the sport dog will give excuses not to work''.


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

David Frost said:


> I can easily understand that. I've admitted on several occasions my lack of knowledge of sport dogs. I've learned a little, thanks to this board and some of the posters. Police dog, I do know a little about.
> 
> DFrost


)) I am learning a lot more here about police dog training and I am very greatful for the knowledge on this forum!


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## Beth Koenig (Jul 4, 2011)

Christopher Smith said:


> No the difference is what the handler want's to do with the dog and the character of the dog.
> 
> 
> 
> Just think about it. A dog that is "too sporty" must be really good at sport. And a really good sport dog sells for much, much more money than a police dog. So why in the hell would a person with an ounce of intelligence try to sell that dog to the cops, were he will not preform very well?


So then I ask, why is a ''sporty'' dog bad at police work? And if that is the case why and how are most of the police dogs titled in sport before hitting the streets with an officer? Not challenging anyone, just curious of people's opinions.


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## Beth Koenig (Jul 4, 2011)

Lisa Radcliffe said:


> The op question was "difference in mentality between a police dog and a sport dog" The dog is not sitting around thinking about money,possible loss of life or how hot or cold out it is or how many points it might get on and on. A good dog just likes to do what it gets to do. IMO it's all up to genetics and what kind of training. But it all starts with the dog, a bit confusing when you factor in what that really means to different people. "sport dog"/"police dog" "good dog" "Bad Dog" how people read dogs. For me sport training is not all about picking a grassy field and having a glass of wine after with my dog. It's also not about getting the highest points,all though that would be great. It's not a walk in the park training when you have a good dog either it's just different training. There are a lot of police dogs that seem to get further in the system and then returned because they can't cut it as a police dog then get washed to a sport home and can't cut it there either then what? kinda like a race horse that makes no money and can't be a sport horse either. Maybe a very lucky pet ))


I like your response.


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Beth Koenig said:


> I have read that post as well, a few, about sport dogs giving excuses not to work. I do not think I have ever seen a sport dog give an excuse not to work (maybe 1 dog comes to mind, but that was a really bad working dog).. and especially at the sport clubs here in Europe, I have never seen a sport dog not work for any reason. Not so sure I understand that statement.
> 
> Maybe what they mean is the handler giving the dog excuses? A sport dog handler could be too hot, too cold, too tired, and has the option to give an excuse for the dog to not work (too hot, too rainy, too cold, etc. but it is all the dog's fault)........... but a police officer has no choice(if a suspect runs while its raining the officer cant say no to use the dog because its raining).
> *
> But I think the dogs would all work anyway when it comes down to it..100%. so i am not too sure I understand the statement ''the police dog gives 100% but the sport dog will give excuses not to work''.*


Beth, I really think that it has nothing to do with the mentality of the dog but with the menality of the handler. A better question would probably be "What is the difference between a sport dog handler and a police dog handler." 
The difference you want, as a handler, in a police dog and in a sport dog.


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> If you are defining "real working lines" as dogs doing police work, then I have to disagree with you. I see more police dogs from "sport lines" than I do sport dogs from "real working lines". And I see more dogs who are washed out of sport work going into police dog situations than I do washed out police dogs winding up in sport dog situations.
> 
> Some dogs can do police work, some dogs can do sport work, and some dogs can do both. With the last group the difference is simply where the dog ended up, and what job the human decided to give it. And a good breeding program IMO aims to produce dogs in the last category, that can do both.


Sorry, you make a very good point here. I could have said that different/better, the kind of pedigree you are refurring to is what I mean sport/working dogs through out the lines. I only know mali,dobermann and DS lines and not one thing about GSD pedigree lines. But I agree with everything you say in your post and you said it so well


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

The other side of the coin,

I have been to 3 different SCH clubs, mostly dogs from show lines. I have worked many of the dogs, I think there are a lot of crappy dogs doing sport work as well. Many dogs get Sch titles that would never make it as a police dog. Biting and fighting a person for real, is far different than biting a sleeve on a SCH field.

There are plenty of sport dogs that cannot do good police work (patrol).

If you are talking GOOD sport dogs, there is not much of a difference..

to be fair, there are plenty of PSD that are working, that are not great dogs either.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

a good dog is a good dog is a good dog.....the rest is the hands of the trainer and handler......

A good dog could do both, HOWEVER I don't think at the same time as they are a tad different, not to mention there are different sports out there as well, not just Sch


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Jody Butler said:


> a good dog is a good dog is a good dog.....the rest is the hands of the trainer and handler......
> 
> A good dog could do both, HOWEVER I don't think at the same time as they are a tad different, not to mention there are different sports out there as well, not just Sch



And a crappy handler can have a good dog not even knowing what he's got in his hands...getting rid of that dog because he's just too much to handle for him.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Beth Koenig said:


> So then I ask, why is a ''sporty'' dog bad at police work? And if that is the case why and how are most of the police dogs titled in sport before hitting the streets with an officer? Not challenging anyone, just curious of people's opinions.


Because sporty=marginal. They call it sporty because they are ignorant about sport and have no idea in hell what it takes to do *well *at sport. They go to one club trial, in the middle of nowhere, see a few dogs that suck and create a fantasy world about sportdogs. But sport people think that dog is marginal too.

I doubt that most of police dogs (US) are titled. And just because a dog is titled does not make it *good *at sport. And some dogs that suck at sport have made excellent police dogs according to their handlers.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Christopher Smith said:


> I doubt that most of police dogs (US) are titled. And just because a dog is titled does not make it *good *at sport. And some dogs that suck at sport have made excellent police dogs according to their handlers.


I'm not aware of any of my patrol dogs were titled in anything except for one. That didn't influence my decision to purchase it. I've attended a couple of schutzhund events and some training venues. I saw some dogs that, in my opinion, had what it would take to become a PSD. I saw some training that wouldn't be conducive to PSD work, but it wasn't really a statement of the quality of the dog. When I say training, I'm talking about the routine, the pattern or the preciseness of the exercise. I've said on more than one occasion police could take some lessons when it comes to obedience. 


DFrost


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I have also seen dogs that do not bring aggression to the work called "sporty".


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I have also seen dogs that do not bring aggression to the work called "sporty".


as well as some police dogs....


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jody Butler said:


> as well as some police dogs....


of course...lol


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

David Frost said:


> I'm not aware of any of my patrol dogs were titled in anything except for one. That didn't influence my decision to purchase it. I've attended a couple of schutzhund events and some training venues. I saw some dogs that, in my opinion, had what it would take to become a PSD. I saw some training that wouldn't be conducive to PSD work, but it wasn't really a statement of the quality of the dog. When I say training, I'm talking about the routine, the pattern or the preciseness of the exercise. I've said on more than one occasion police could take some lessons when it comes to obedience.


David, the dogs you see on the sport field might be a completely different dog in "real life" or the streets. Most, if not all, of the police dog trainers that I know hold the opinion that you never know for sure about a dog until it's had a few incidence on the street. Some dogs that don't look so good in training or sport field can be demons on the street. It's like they have their first few real fights and open up. Other dogs that looked like killers became big pusses when shit got real. 

What do you think about this? Can you really know what a dog is all about from seeing it on the sport or training field? I'm seeking your cop opinion.


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## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

In a perfect world, the dogs that deserve to be bred are the ones that should become police dogs. The dominant, over the top dogs would be the perfect candidate. But in reality, with the many different capabilities of K9 handlers, there are just as many police dogs that are sporty as "real". With the increase of PSD and Handler deaths this year I hope many agencies are taking deep a honest look at what they have and what they are doing and try to improve. One thing I know for certain is there is always room for improvement.

Whatever the dog, all you can do is train for everything you can think of and hope your dog can overcome the unexpected.


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

I think a lot of 'sporty' dogs can be made into police patrol dogs with the right training as long as they can be taught to bite humans regardless of whether they do so in prey or defense or 'fight' drive. A bigger reason for washing out dogs is poor/weak nerves, dogs with environmental issues. If i see an IPO dog with really good drive that freaks out when there's thunder or won't bite the sleeve on a strange decoy then i won't bother. I prefer a medium drive dog that is confident in any situation. Some people say malis are locked in prey or whatever but it hasn't stopped them from being among the top PSD breeds.
Truth is k9 units won't get the best of the best, asko von der lutter won't have ended up in xxxx county k9 unit. Sport people can afford these kinds of dogs, good breeding programs will produce litters with at least 2 or 3 patrol quality dogs, helmut raiser and his friends will take the best two and David Frost will be lucky to get the number 3 pup, i think that's how it works.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> I think a lot of 'sporty' dogs can be made into police patrol dogs with the right training as long as they can be taught to bite humans regardless of whether they do so in prey or defense or 'fight' drive. A bigger reason for washing out dogs is poor/weak nerves, dogs with environmental issues. If i see an IPO dog with really good drive that freaks out when there's thunder or won't bite the sleeve on a strange decoy then i won't bother. I prefer a medium drive dog that is confident in any situation. Some people say malis are locked in prey or whatever but it hasn't stopped them from being among the top PSD breeds.
> _Truth is k9 units won't get the best of the best, asko von der lutter won't have ended up in xxxx county k9 unit. Sport people can afford these kinds of dogs, good breeding programs will produce litters with at least 2 or 3 patrol quality dogs, helmut raiser and his friends will take the best two and David Frost will be lucky to get the number 3 pup, i think that's how it works.[/QUOTE_]
> 
> and along with that, the best in who's eyes? So many other variables....The breeder, trainer, handler, friend, cousin and mother will all have a different pick and why they think xxx dog is the best anyway...


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## Oluwatobi Odunuga (Apr 7, 2010)

Jody Butler said:


> Oluwatobi Odunuga said:
> 
> 
> > I think a lot of 'sporty' dogs can be made into police patrol dogs with the right training as long as they can be taught to bite humans regardless of whether they do so in prey or defense or 'fight' drive. A bigger reason for washing out dogs is poor/weak nerves, dogs with environmental issues. If i see an IPO dog with really good drive that freaks out when there's thunder or won't bite the sleeve on a strange decoy then i won't bother. I prefer a medium drive dog that is confident in any situation. Some people say malis are locked in prey or whatever but it hasn't stopped them from being among the top PSD breeds.
> ...


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## Sandra King (Mar 29, 2011)

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> Jody Butler said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you, but i think most good breeders are able to pick the best 4 or thereabout although their number 1 may end up being 3 and vice versa. Another issue is breeding of police dogs, i think that's discussion for another day.
> ...


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## Beth Koenig (Jul 4, 2011)

Sandra King said:


> Beth, I really think that it has nothing to do with the mentality of the dog but with the menality of the handler. A better question would probably be "What is the difference between a sport dog handler and a police dog handler."
> The difference you want, as a handler, in a police dog and in a sport dog.


Yes, I agree. HAHA thats what I tried to say, differences in mentality of the handlers. you said it much cleaner LOL!


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## Erik Berg (Apr 11, 2006)

If a sportdog get high points in their sports I guess it´s a good sportdog. When most people say a dog is too sporty I assume they mean the dog could be a bit to soft or lack the courage or boldness needed for a good policedog, these are the complains you often hear from persons involved with policedogs, and I guess they know what they are talking about becuase many of them competes in dogsports also. Dogs that have problems in different environments or may be to impulsive so they have a hard time tracking in tough conditions are also reasons policedogs are washed out.

Considering the things above are not tested in sports it´s only logical some good sportdogs may not be suited as policedogs.


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