# The Smart end of the leash?



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I just read this Ivan Balabanov quote on FB and agree with it 100%


"so many people/trainers out there still look at their dogs as something that has no brain, no inteligence. They keep repeating the same silly/stupid drills over and over and over and over and over again ...
if you have been trying to teach something and it's taking you longer than a month you should consider a different approoach! Another year of building " muscle memory" aint gonna do it!!!
Dogs are NOT retarded, some people that call themseleves "trainers" are!"


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Indeed . Most issues are the result of bad training.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

LOL nicely put


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

The problem is that most people do things how they were taught or what worked for them. They may have the best of intentions but lack experience with other breeds, breed mindsets, or variations among individuals within the same breed . If XYZ worked for one, then XYZ works for all. If it doesn't then the dog is considered defective rather than the trainer or method used.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

When I taught pet obedience classes I always started off with the comment that "the biggest problem the dogs will have is the turd stuck to the other end of the leash".
It certainly weeded out some of the sensitive ones. :twisted:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Well I think I would have left - due to the smell :grin:


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Sarah Platts said:


> The problem is that most people do things how they were taught or what worked for them. They may have the best of intentions but lack experience with other breeds, breed mindsets, or variations among individuals within the same breed . If XYZ worked for one, then XYZ works for all. If it doesn't then the dog is considered defective rather than the trainer or method used.


The problem is maybe..... people don't think for themselves. It's a big cultural problem and not just for you big fat yanks :grin:. (no offense intended :grin.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

maggie fraser said:


> The problem is maybe..... people don't think for themselves. It's a big cultural problem and not just for you big fat yanks :grin:. (no offense intended :grin.


Cultural? Really? All culture aside, people imitate what they are taught. If they only work within a small group or follow a particular doctrine then that what they do because that is what they know. I'm not sure its lack of "thinking for themselves" or more simply a lack of cosmopolitan experiences. I agree that Yanks don't hold the patent on cultural problems. It appears to be a universal issue.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

maggie fraser said:


> The problem is maybe..... people don't think for themselves. It's a big cultural problem and not just for you big fat yanks :grin:. (no offense intended :grin.


hahahahahahaha.

You can't say "big fat yanks" without offending the big fat yanks...hahaha. It's like saying "with all due respect, but, you are an asshole". The second part negates the first. The thing is, the fat yanks need to get offended and get themselves not so fat. It's just so bad for your knees being fat. 

I agree with you a hundred percent on people not thinking for themselves. It's why looking at it as a science works so much better.

the formula is the same, but how the dog reacts to the stimulus may be different. It's why I like operant conditioning so much to plan how a dog reacts, and to sort out how HE sees a stimulus to get behaviors from him in the future. 

Knowing what your dog values as a reward and correction make all the difference in the world. *Systems are just an application of the science and in a lot of cases, once the great teachers of system (who in most cases are really great at what they do) are gone, you find out that you have been fed fish, not taught to fish. *This is not the trainers fault, but a result of what Maggie is talking about, a lack of thinking and reasoning, for yourself.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Sarah Platts said:


> All culture aside, people imitate what they are taught. .


No. We can think and reason without outside input. I have had some brilliant ideas that have already been done and patented. I saw a problem similarly to what someone else saw, and tried to make a solution that was already out there. I am as much of a genius as the guy that invented it first, just not as wealthy as someone else came up with it.



Sarah Platts said:


> I'm not sure its lack of "thinking for themselves" or more simply a lack of cosmopolitan experiences.


Your first statement quoted negates your second quote. If one "imitates what they are taught", then for sure they are not thinking for themselves.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Dave,

You mean thinking I'll try someones idea cause it works and I like it doesn't count as "thinking for myself"?


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

as people become more famous they tend to speak in shorter sentences and their one liners get remembered for their "brilliant simplicity" 

when i hear them, my thought process usually goes like this :
" i'll certainly buy that " ...
..... followed by :
" makes a lot of sense "
..... followed by :
" but isn't there a little more to it ? "

.... no wonder i'm a stupid slow learner //lol//


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> as people become more famous they tend to speak in shorter sentences and their one liners get remembered for their "brilliant simplicity"
> 
> when i hear them, my thought process usually goes like this :
> " i'll certainly buy that " ...
> ...


its simple Rick.. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5fPFcRfjHg


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Dave,
> 
> You mean thinking I'll try someones idea cause it works and I like it doesn't count as "thinking for myself"?


I don't know if I am tired or you are thinking on a higher plane than me, but I don't understand what you said here.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

And it took IVAN to bring this to light?!


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> And it took IVAN to bring this to light?!


I think half the people liking Ivan's post are probably guilty of exactly what he is talking about. It's easy to relate or agree with what he has said. But I think that sometimes when a trainer with that level talent says something....He's probably speaking on level that we (people without his talent) cannot fully comprehend...even though we think we can. And I say this, because if we could comprehend it, we probably be able to execute it to a level that brings us the same results he has had.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

This just emphasizes what Maggie said about people not thinking for themselves.




James Downey said:


> I think half the people liking Ivan's post are probably guilty of exactly what he is talking about. It's easy to relate or agree with what he has said. But I think that sometimes when a trainer with that level talent says something....He's probably speaking on level that we (people without his talent) cannot fully comprehend...even though we think we can. And I say this, because if we could comprehend it, we probably be able to execute it to a level that brings us the same results he has had.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Dave Colborn said:


> This just emphasizes what Maggie said about people not thinking for themselves.


It does exactly that.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

sarah platts said:


> cultural? Really? All culture aside, people imitate what they are taught. If they only work within a small group or follow a particular doctrine then that what they do because that is what they know. I'm not sure its lack of "thinking for themselves" or more simply a lack of cosmopolitan experiences. I agree that yanks don't hold the patent on cultural problems. It appears to be a universal issue.


 amen


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> amen


ROFLMAO:lol::lol::lol:


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

that may have been a brilliant concept 10 years ago ,,, now its matter of fact ,, the internet has really done a number on dogs ,,, and the people.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Brian Anderson said:


> that may have been a brilliant concept 10 years ago ,,, now its matter of fact ,, the internet has really done a number on dogs ,,, and the people.


Brian. That is blasphemy. You have to be a somebody trainer to say that....


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