# Dog-scent Lineup



## Courtney Gordon (Nov 27, 2007)

New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/us/04scent.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=bloodhound&st=cse

Has anyone on this board used this scent lineup? I've never heard of it before. At what point in the investigation would you use the scent lineup? How reliable can this be?


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Courtney Gordon said:


> New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/us/04scent.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=bloodhound&st=cse
> 
> Has anyone on this board used this scent lineup? I've never heard of it before. At what point in the investigation would you use the scent lineup? How reliable can this be?



I really know better than to say this, so I'll preface my comments with; It's my opinion, nothing more. I think, for the most part, it's voodoo.

DFrost


----------



## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

Courtny,
I have been lucky enough to meet Mr. Jan Kaldenbach at a seminar he gave on scent identification in line ups. This was back in 2000. This gentleman was a police k9 handler for 20 years and then a trainer in the Netherlands.He wrote a book titled '' K9 scent detection''. He has developed a training technique that has been recognized in courts in the Netherlands.
He presented a video of training and then explained the whole process. To summerize a bit, let's say the dogs used for this, only do scent lineups and nothing else. The whole training is very structured and the selection of the dogs used is very important.
He claims that he has worked cases where odors stored for a period of several years were identified by the dogs.
The controls used during the identification phase are very tight to prevent errors (as much as possible). Even negative identifications are set up and the dogs are trained to react to the total absence of the suspect odor in a different way.
The whole thing is long to explain but it is being done (sorry David, not VooDoo!) and admitted in courts in the Netherlands for years now.
Mike


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

To each their own. Here is one older study, there are many. None of them are too convincing.

http://www.uspcak9.com/training/forensicScent.pdf


DFrost


----------



## Courtney Gordon (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm leaning toward D. Frost of this one. I even have that book "K9 scent detection", just never got around to reading it. I'm going to have to dust it off to see what this guy is talking about for this one.


----------



## Mike Di Rago (Jan 9, 2009)

Jan Kaldenbach documented all his work and it was only on scent identification used in line ups, not substance detection. The dogs used were only trained for this purpose and nothing else, no other form of detection or work. 
After talking to the man and having him explain the rigorous controls he used, I think there is something interesting here. But like you said David ''to each his own''.
Courtney, maybe reading Mr.Kaldenbach's book will give you better insight. I just wanted to answer your first question. Yes it is being used in the Netherlands and it is admissible in court and used *ONLY* to corroborate other evidence.
Mike


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Somewhere, I'm going to have to find it, there was a discussion about the use of scent line-up, specifically in the Netherlands. I just can't remember where I was reading it. Sorry, this gettin old thing really sucks. ha ha

DFrost


----------



## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

> A good read David! The studies and tests conducted over the years concerning this subject is phenominal.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Sorry, this gettin old thing really sucks. ha ha
> 
> DFrost


David,

Agreed, but the alternative sucks more worserer VBG


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Thomas Barriano said:


> David,
> 
> Agreed, but the alternative sucks more worserer VBG


So true. My daddy always says; "any day above ground is a good day".

DFrost


----------



## Kevin Cramer (Jan 26, 2008)

FYI,

Police K9's July/August 2009 issue has an article on this.

"Human Scent Lineup Evidence" by Ken Wallentine.


----------



## Jeff Gore (Feb 1, 2010)

I have trained scent lineups and I have done line ups in a demo. Line ups do work however I will not utilize this method of id in case work. If you do one and you ID correct you did good. If you do one and its the wrong you probably commanded the dog to id the wrong person and the dog is right. How can this be. Contamination that you have no control over from collection to storage to presentation. Way too many variables. If you chose to do them you will eventually id the wrong one or you will say none of them. In either case you help the bad guy and your dog will be the one to blame even though it was the evidence handling of the property officer etc that contaminated the article you used. DO NOT DO LINE UPS. If all you have to ID a suspect is a tag from your dog your case is weak, find evidence or let them go unless you like civil suits. Just my 02


----------

