# How do you handle Pano?



## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

My 8m old pup, Remus, has pano. He has limped for a couple of months now and has been to the vet 2x for it. 1st time she diagnosed him with pano, but I didnt xray. Since it didnt get better and I was concerned about the possibility that he had a problem with the shoulder or elbow, I had him xrayed yesterday. Diagnosis is definitely pano and no sign of anything else at this point. 

Vet said that I did not have to restrict his activity, that he would tell me when he had enough. At first I was still taking him on our almost daily hikes and he has always been happy to go and showed little signs of discomfort (except for the obvious limp)--he certainly hasnt wanted to stop. Then I couldnt stand watching him limp and kept him from the longer hikes and have been just letting him play in the backyard and taking him on leash walks. Of course his energy level is pretty high at this point and he is an annoying little snot. His ball drive has also been coming up over the last few months so he is very, very eager to play.

Vet still says I can take him on hikes (2 miles-ish of off leash walking/running) with Griffin. I used to throw the ball for Griffin, but dont with the puppy. I have a teammate (SAR) whose young dog had pano--he basically put the pup up until the pain went away. His pup seemed much worse than Remus though--that pup would keep weight off the most affected leg. My teammate thinks that just by taking Remus for a walk I am pushing him (driveyness and energy level over-ride the pain).

What have you all done with pups that have pano? Go about normal exercise routine or limit activity? We normally hike 5 times/week. My hikes have been shorter since I have had Remus--no more than 2 miles (used to be up to 5 fast miles with just Griffin with me throwing the ball for him for part of it.) and most shorter than 2, and slower than usual with no ball throwing.

Thanks!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Don't feed a high protien diet. Feed a maintenance adult food. I had about 20 pups with it all at the same time once after I decided to feed a high end puppy chow. Stopped the puppy chow and never had another problem. It is also called wandering lameness because it will move from leg to leg many times. In my dogs it lasted a couple of months starting about 7 months and ended between 9 and 10 mo.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Don't feed a high protien diet. Feed a maintenance adult food. I had about 20 pups with it all at the same time once after I decided to feed a high end puppy chow. Stopped the puppy chow and never had another problem. It is also called wandering lameness because it will move from leg to leg many times. In my dogs it lasted a couple of months starting about 7 months and ended between 9 and 10 mo.


 I agree with what Don said here. I dont stop working the pups with Pano, but I do slow down with themn for a month or two. I have one of the worst cases I have seen here now with a 8 month old Arko X Djenna son. He is a SUPER nice puppy that will work through it with no problems, but is very lame after the sessions when he calms down. I took him off the raw diet and have him on a cheap low protien diet and he is finally starting to do a little better. He has had it bad for about 3 months already. I had him x rayed (back, hips, elbows, shoulders)....all look very good.
I have him on Rimadyl which helps a little, but he is still in pain.
The low protien diet seems to be the best fix for it from what I have seen.


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## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

Thanks guys,

I switched him to adult food at about 4ish months (I was feeding Solid gold adult at that point). He had started a small amount of off and on limping at that point. It stopped for a few weeks and then came back and has been consistent since he was about 5ish months.

I feed Wellness plus some home-cooked (mainly pressure cooked chickens-which allows me to keep the bones in, with some beef and either sweet potatoes, rice or oats. Approx 2/3 meat to 1/3 grain ratio). 

Just checked the wellness bag--25% protein-that doesnt sound low. Maybe I should switch him to a lower protein food until he is done growing. He is 68 lbs and skinny, I actually just upped his food because he is just a little to ribby. He is still shorter (height and length) than my 5 yr old, Griffin, but he is only 3lbs less...

On the xrays, he has it in both front legs, but only limps on the left one -although occasionally I see him switch a little. He has no stop in him, he wants to go, go, go. I just want to make sure I dont let him over work himself. His HR work is pretty low stress, so the most stress on him is free running on the hikes.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

What you are trying to do here is slow down his growth. Chicken is protien also.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

stop with the chicken all together. That is the raw food that I use (raw chicken) and they grow like hell on it, but I would switch to a low protien food and stop all of the raw for a while. Even if you switch to some shit grocery store brand for a while I think you will see a change for the better in the Pano, (although likely a change for the worse in the stool) Ol' Roy wont kill him for a few months and it will slow down his growth for a while and help with the Pano.


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

Pano is a breeders nightmare. A case of Pano in a GSD puppy we bred caused us no end of problem. The owner of the pup just didnt want to believe me and xrayed the dog on three occasions trying to find the bad hips the dog has. This was the case that I asked about OFA vs Penn Hip. He got two xrays showing scores similar to OFA Excellent, but the went on to Penn Hip as well. He got his lowest 30% in Penn hip rating so he's now happy. The dog is really good, and SV Judge Rano Flugge stated he would take this dog back to Canada. Now the dog is like 5 years of age and shows no HD issues, but recently a couple of people asked him about breeding to the dog and he said he didnt think so because he has bad hips.


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

For a Dane I did no forced exersize. He could go till he was done but it was his choice. Also his food was adult weight management- it slowed his growth to the point that he only had the roaming limp for 8 weeks and only two vet visits. I did not change his food to regular adult until 14 months old, and he didn't stop growing untill 28 months. But it was all nice and slow, and it kept him pain free and on his feet.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I know a number of people that had good luck feeding string beans for bulk with less of their regular food.
They seemed to have good luck


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

I boost the Vit C ...seems to help. My pups are gradually loaded to 1000mg of C with bioflavinoids. Back off if you have bowel intolerance . I also drop protein and use lots of green tripe for pups/litters.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

The problem with panosteitis is we don't know what causes it and it can wax and wane, so there lots of things people try, but it might have gone away on its own. I read an article from Germany (the article is in German, so I can't read it, but the abstract is in English) which did suggest there's a nutritional component and to back off on energy dense foods. That particular article suggests there is an ischemic component, which sounds a bit to me almost like laminitis in horses, and they did a little clinical study with an anti-coagulant drug. Interesting...

Anywho, which bag of Wellness are you feeding? 25% is plenty low. You can't get too much lower than about 20% commercially anyways because it's too low for AAFCO. One I'm familiar with Innova Low Fat Adult, which has about 18%.


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## Jennifer Michelson (Sep 20, 2006)

Bob--Stringbeans?? really!

Maren--I feed wellness super5 mix. I switched from solid gold hund-n-flockin or wolf king (depending what the store had). Their protein is a little lower.

I find the idea of pano being related to blood flow interesting. The vet showed me on the xray how the bone thickening was near the blood vessel entering the bone...What was the findings with the anti-coagulants?

Remus feels better after a long walk/run yesterday. I hate watching the limp, but I feel more reassured that I am not harming him by letting him run.

thanks for everyones input!! I have never dealt with pano before.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jennifer Michelson said:


> Bob--Stringbeans?? really!
> 
> Maren--I feed wellness super5 mix. I switched from solid gold hund-n-flockin or wolf king (depending what the store had). Their protein is a little lower.
> 
> ...



Yes! Not the canned with salt but fresh or frozen. Cooked of course. To much plant fiber for a dog to digest raw.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Yes! Not the canned with salt but fresh or frozen. Cooked of course. To much plant fiber for a dog to digest raw.


Green beans are actually a classic remedy when a dog has packed on a few extra pounds but the new not-so-full bowl triggers a tragic expression on his face. :lol:

They fluff up the bowl, they take a little time to eat each one, they have hardly any calories (or much of anything), and if you get the no-salt-added ones, they are innocuous. 

I have used frozen French-style (they are slit the long way) and canned any style (canned are cooked to death anyway). Frozen are blanched, and freezing further breaks down the cell walls.

They are cheap. Big bags of frozen store brand are often 4 for $5 and cans of store brand can be as low as 39 cents.


eta
Dogs seem to love the canned ones. I have no idea why. Ever taste one? I adopted a fatty one time who loved them so much that I gave her the liquid from the can too. Weird. (This was no-salt-added, so it wasn't the allure of salt.)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"Ever taste one"?
I grew up on Delmonte canned green beans. Mom was a terrible cook!
With 7 kids she'd just open a can of something, toss it in the middle of the table and jump back! :-o:-#:lol:


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## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I LOVE green beans. Sometimes I open a can and just fork em out for a snack.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> "Ever taste one"?
> I grew up on Delmonte canned green beans. Mom was a terrible cook!
> With 7 kids she'd just open a can of something, toss it in the middle of the table and jump back! :-o:-#:lol:


that's too funny bob! my Mom (w/8 kids) cooked supper every night (WITH dessert), Dad served, but who got "seconds" depended upon who ate the fastest, lol. 

but i also like canned green beans and corn, but most of the rest of it--frozen's the way to go (can't really stand canned peas, for ex).

anyway, back OT, Brix had a few mild bouts with Pano, i just fed lower-protein (adult) kibble, restricted excercise somewhat, and he got over it pretty quickly...not much help, i know, but--FWIW.


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## kamphuis gerben (Jan 29, 2009)

this is what i know ,pano is too much calcium the too much calcium is put up in the bone for later use 
as i sayed too much it coase problems by filling up the small holes in the bones for regulation waist regulation in the bone 
building up pressure in the bone and givving very small infections 
many vets describe an antibiotic for that but thats not solving the problem only helps a litlle like rimadyl
a friend of mine was very unlucky by getting dogs whith pano 3 after eachother 
his vet sayed you must find a food that has lesser than 1% calcium in it 
he found it nl eukanuba puppy large breed the calcium is 0,8 % it did the trick after feeding all these dogs the pano was gone after 2 a 3 weeks and he still has the dogs on it 
believe me he tried everything else whith litlle or no result 
whith one of his 3 dogs it was gone after 5 days 
i do same now here whith one dog and in few days i see big difference already 
greetings gerben


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## Keagen Grace (Jun 5, 2010)

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I LOVE green beans. Sometimes I open a can and just fork em out for a snack.


I'm the same way! They're great with some Italian seasoning on them, believe it or not. . . .


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