# Ivan Balabanov



## Thomas Barriano

I just saw this on Face book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFsNoO8OkHA

Looks like a Dutch Shepherd doing French Ring. Also looks like a young trainee decoy that's having fun


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## Larry Krohn

Thomas Barriano said:


> I just saw this on Face book
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFsNoO8OkHA
> 
> Looks like a Dutch Shepherd doing French Ring. Also looks like a young trainee decoy that's having fun


That young fella took a beating


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## Lori Gallo

Don't do ring sport but that was totally fun to watch.


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## Steve Estrada

That was cool, the young fellow spent time on the ground but got back at it, so kudos for him =D>


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## Joby Becker

thanks for posting..enjoyed it.


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## Julie Blanding

Great Stuff!!!


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## Christopher Jones

Ivan looks like he is good to new young trainee decoys. He looked after them nicely. Good to see.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Finally!!!! He stayed on his feet. What a cool kid--"-let's do it again.". First time I've cheered for he decoy instead of the dog. Move faster! No swatting flies! Hilarious. +1 for Ivan. Always cool to see someone working well with kids.

T


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## Daniel Lybbert

That is how I got trained to do decoy stuff. "Try and get out of the way and dont let the dog bite you." Then Face attack face face face. I got beat up for months. It was such a waste of time. I went and trained with a good decoy and we spent days just working on me with no dog. Making the right moves. I spent hours with a tug around my leg working my baton work.

People need to keep their young decoys safe and correct. That way they enjoy it and are actually productive to use. They wiil have lots of time to get smashed by a dog. 
Like a dog. YOu dont just send puppies on face attacks with no foundaation.


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## Matt Vandart

Daniel Lybbert said:


> That is how I got trained to do decoy stuff. "Try and get out of the way and dont let the dog bite you." Then Face attack face face face. I got beat up for months. It was such a waste of time. I went and trained with a good decoy and *we spent days just working on me with no dog. Making the right moves.* I spent hours with a tug around my leg working my baton work.
> 
> People need to keep their young decoys safe and correct. That way they enjoy it and are actually productive to use. They wiil have lots of time to get smashed by a dog.
> Like a dog. YOu dont just send puppies on face attacks with no foundaation.


This is the best way to do it IMO.


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## Zakia Days

LOL! Was that the great Ludovick? I forgot what he looked like, so I vould be mistaken. If so, someone please correct. That was funny. Love the shorts Ivan! LOL. He has now learned what kind of dog and training he needs to perform in ring. I guess Ludovick is working that out with him! Nice young decoy training, too!


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## Matt Vandart

Just watched the vid, brings back memories of my youth hahahahahaaha no more for me!
kid was great! 
Either he didn't realise what could happen or he's got some giant metal balls hahahahahahaha!
Excellent vid!


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Zakia Days said:


> LOL! Was that the great Ludovick? I forgot what he looked like, so I vould be mistaken. If so, someone please correct. That was funny. Love the shorts Ivan! LOL. He has now learned what kind of dog and training he needs to perform in ring. I guess Ludovick is working that out with him! Nice young decoy training, too!


Except the mommy in me wanted a dog that at least looked a little safer or a head and neck guard for that coming into the center.

T


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## john simmons

I think Ivan needs to go to the doctor!! In the first 45 seconds, if you look very, very carefully, it looks like he might have a tumor in the front of his shorts... :-o


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## Terrasita Cuffie

john simmons said:


> I think Ivan needs to go to the doctor!! In the first 45 seconds, if you look very, very carefully, it looks like he might have a tumor in the front of his shorts... :-o


You were supposed to be looking at the kid and the dog. You don't really want us to go back and look at Ivan's crotch [area?] do you???

T


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## john simmons

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> You were supposed to be looking at the kid and the dog. You don't really want us to go back and look at Ivan's crotch [area?] do you???
> 
> T


Hey T- watched the whole vid- the tumor is like the train wreck you just can't look away from! 
The kid did great! The look on his face when he had that last miss- priceless!! He was so proud of himself.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

john simmons said:


> Hey T- watched the whole vid- the tumor is like the train wreck you just can't look away from!
> The kid did great! The look on his face when he had that last miss- priceless!! He was so proud of himself.


 
Really, just shows you I have absolutely no train awareness whcih could be dangerous I guess.

T


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## JOE SAMSON JR

now that was fun to watch he was having the time of his life , that kind of enthusiasm is contagious !!


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## Thomas Barriano

Yes that's Ludivic Teaurbane who apparently moved to Florida.
It looks like Ivan is wearing a cup, probably was wearing a bite suit before he started training the kid.
A lucky kid getting to work with Ivan and Ludivic.


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## Bob Scott

Gotta love the kid's enthusiasm. Hard not to be enthused with teachers like those two.


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## Zakia Days

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Except the mommy in me wanted a dog that at least looked a little safer or a head and neck guard for that coming into the center.
> 
> T


 
Agreed! Angels were protecting his head and neck, I think. On top of the fact that the dog is very equipment oriented, so as long as the kid doesn't put his face where the equipment is, he should be fine.


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## Zakia Days

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> You were supposed to be looking at the kid and the dog. You don't really want us to go back and look at Ivan's crotch [area?] do you???
> 
> T


 
Again. Agreed! :mrgreen:


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## Jason Davis

Daniel Lybbert said:


> That is how I got trained to do decoy stuff. "Try and get out of the way and dont let the dog bite you." Then Face attack face face face. I got beat up for months. It was such a waste of time. I went and trained with a good decoy and we spent days just working on me with no dog. Making the right moves. I spent hours with a tug around my leg working my baton work.
> 
> People need to keep their young decoys safe and correct. That way they enjoy it and are actually productive to use. They wiil have lots of time to get smashed by a dog.
> Like a dog. YOu dont just send puppies on face attacks with no foundaation.


Amen


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Zakia Days said:


> Agreed! Angels were protecting his head and neck, I think. On top of the fact that the dog is very equipment oriented, so as long as the kid doesn't put his face where the equipment is, he should be fine.


 
I don't think the dog is very predictable. I was much more comfortable with the first dog. With the second dog even Ivan is a little concerned, telling the kid after the fact to turn his head away. Also initially each time he was on the ground they were after him to get up. There was one however with the dog was near his head and neck and all over the place I thought he shouldn't move--to much room to get bit if the dog readjusted. At that point Ivan was there saying don't move. 

T


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## Bob Scott

They moved in pretty fast when the kid went down.


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## Joby Becker

actually the way that they approached was one of the worst ways to approach a downed decoy, in my opinion...especially with a dog that high up.

I understand that they wanted to get their quickly. which should be done with any decoy that is new, but to protect the head and neck, the handler(s) should approach from wherever the decoys head is, as dogs often move away from the handlers while biting. Approaching from the decoys head position will drive dog around and away from the head if he is prone to doing that. That is suit work 101 stuff for dogs that may bite for real.

This dog did just that, and ended up on top of the kids head, and put him in a more dangerous position, but least they got him up before trying to out him.


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## Marcelo Villanueva

> Joby wrote:
> 
> ...the handler(s) should approach from wherever the decoys head is, as dogs often move away from the handlers while biting...


This is not a good sign if you see this behaviour.

This show's a poor relationship between dog and handler.

Cheers,
Chello...


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## Joby Becker

Marcelo Villanueva said:


> This is not a good sign if you see this behaviour.
> 
> This show's a poor relationship between dog and handler.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chello...


I agree 100% with this..

I would be pissed actually if those guys did that to me, with that dog, but that kid doesn't know any better...he is looking for instruction, and clearly gets put into a bad situation with a dog that has some conflict with the handlers, which is evident in the out that follows...

really is safety 101 for a handlers responsibilties to help protect the decoy on the ground, especially with a new decoy.


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## Thomas Barriano

The kid is having the time of his life. Learning from two of the best trainers in the world. The DS stayed exactly where he initially bit, so all this advise from the resident WDF expert about how the handler should approach the dog (from head or tail) is amusing.
Stick to junkyard PP dogs and ghetto training. Ivan Balabanov and Ludivic Teaurbane have done pretty good without your advise. ROTFLMAO


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## Terrasita Cuffie

[QUOTE=Joby Becker;367591] but to protect the head and neck, the handler(s) should approach from wherever the decoys head is, as dogs often move away from the handlers while biting. Approaching from the decoys head position will drive dog around and away from the head if he is prone to doing that. [/QUOTE]

That's actually a principle I work with in stock work when the dog is in lala land on a single--move towards the sheep not the dog. The dog will give to his handler--pack principle. I'll have to go back and watch the video. I saw a dog amp up and get a glean in his eye in a decoy seminar when the decoy in training was on the ground. I've been told that you don't try the out the dog in that situation and the decoy needs to get up instantly. Ivan seemed to indicate the dog was touchy by telling the kid not to move when the dog was near his neck. Listening to them in the end before the last bite, I think the teachers were a little worn from this risky situation even if the kid wasn't--they knew the potential--or so it seemed.


T


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## Daniel Lybbert

I agree Thomas. That dog isnt unpredictable. He bit just like a ring dog should. The reason they where all saying dont move dont move is cuz the dog got his neck all twisted.


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## JOE SAMSON JR

you guys suck , i liked seeing the kid have a good time i came back to watch it again and see it turned into this


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## Thomas Barriano

JOE SAMSON JR said:


> you guys suck , i liked seeing the kid have a good time i came back to watch it again and see it turned into this



At least there's something we can agree on. The kids timing on that last esquive was sweet too


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## Justin Gannon

Awesome to watch the kid have the balls to get back up and try and learn. Looked like he had fun. It's not tor wverybody. Was it safe for the dogs and decoy? NO.


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## Joby Becker

THOMAS..
How many new guys have you put in a suit? How do you train your handlers for your suit work?

Thanks for sharing the video, the dog stayed where he was, that is wonderful...watch the dogs out, you tell me if he might be a little nervous in the out, or have a little conflict with his handler(s)..if he didn't why would he swing away from his handler(s) to a point over the kids head?

I don't care who was there, if it was the top 10 trainers lined up....I stand by what I said, it is basic suit safety 101. 
That is why I pointed it out...so if someone is watching this or reading this, if they did not know, now they now...


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## Joby Becker

Demonstration of safely coming to a downed decoys aid if dog is likely to swing away from handler. Not from a PP trainer, or Ghetto whatever..but the guy that brought French Ring to our country....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIgEu1pHe5o

Forgive me for pointing out what I see as something that was done that might put a kids face in danger. 

Everything went fine I know, but everything always goes fine, until it doesn't for the first time...that kid is no experienced FR decoy, otherwise he would have gotten up himself,and that dog did have issues with the approach of those guys.

even if the goal is to lift the guy up, approach should still not drive dog over persons face...


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## Nicole Stark

Joby what is the source of that video? Clearly it's old but I don't think I've seen it before. Thanks for posting it by the way.


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## Joby Becker

Nicole Stark said:


> Joby what is the source of that video? Clearly it's old but I don't think I've seen it before. Thanks for posting it by the way.


It was filmed in the ghetto, with some junkyard PP trainers I think..


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## Nicole Stark

Joby Becker said:


> It was filmed in the ghetto, with some junkyard PP trainers I think..


Be facetious with Thomas but not me ok? I just wanted to know about it because I was curious if there was more to the video than that piece you posted.


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## Julie Blanding

I think that might from a video..
http://www.caninetrainingsystems.com/product/V-PD-HIL-BIT/The-Body-Bite-Suit


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## Joby Becker

Julie Blanding said:


> I think that might from a video..
> http://www.caninetrainingsystems.com/product/V-PD-HIL-BIT/The-Body-Bite-Suit


yes of course it is... 
Canine Training Systems, with Stewart Hilliard..

lays out many techniques and methods used for training dogs in suits, is big on safety..I I did PM Nicole when I saw her first inquiry, in my defense.


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## Nicole Stark

Thank you both, I am sure that info is pretty common knowledge to quite a number of people here but it's not to me and I'd like to better understand what I am seeing at times or even better yet know when something isn't going right why that is and what can be done to counter it. This looks like it might help with that process.


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## Kevin Cyr

Joby Becker said:


> Demonstration of safely coming to a downed decoys aid if dog is likely to swing away from handler. Not from a PP trainer, or Ghetto whatever..but the guy that brought French Ring to our country....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIgEu1pHe5o
> 
> Forgive me for pointing out what I see as something that was done that might put a kids face in danger.
> 
> Everything went fine I know, but everything always goes fine, until it doesn't for the first time...that kid is no experienced FR decoy, otherwise he would have gotten up himself,and that dog did have issues with the approach of those guys.
> 
> even if the goal is to lift the guy up, approach should still not drive dog over persons face...


Hilliard hasnt changed a bit in all these years.....


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## Thomas Barriano

The video is ~25 years old and copyrighted. If was filmed mainly in and around Denver,Colorado with police dogs and inexperienced decoys. Do you know any of the people in the CTS video? I do. Do you know any of the people in the original video? I do.
This isn't about the safety of the kid. Ivan and Ludivic have spent more time in a bite suit then everyone that's replied to this thread. The dog was solid on the bite with no transfer of grip and NO danger to the kid. This is another case of you side tracking a thread with ego stroking nonsense that has little to do with the topic. 





Joby Becker said:


> Demonstration of safely coming to a downed decoys aid if dog is likely to swing away from handler. Not from a PP trainer, or Ghetto whatever..but the guy that brought French Ring to our country....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIgEu1pHe5o
> 
> Forgive me for pointing out what I see as something that was done that might put a kids face in danger.
> 
> Everything went fine I know, but everything always goes fine, until it doesn't for the first time...that kid is no experienced FR decoy, otherwise he would have gotten up himself,and that dog did have issues with the approach of those guys.
> 
> even if the goal is to lift the guy up, approach should still not drive dog over persons face...


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## Timothy Stacy

Daniel Lybbert said:


> That is how I got trained to do decoy stuff. "Try and get out of the way and dont let the dog bite you." Then Face attack face face face. I got beat up for months. It was such a waste of time. I went and trained with a good decoy and we spent days just working on me with no dog. Making the right moves. I spent hours with a tug around my leg working my baton work.
> 
> People need to keep their young decoys safe and correct. That way they enjoy it and are actually productive to use. They wiil have lots of time to get smashed by a dog.
> Like a dog. YOu dont just send puppies on face attacks with no foundaation.


Does Ludo not know how to train decoys?


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## Jesus Alvarez

Timothy Stacy said:


> Does Ludo not know how to train decoys?


He's supposed to be a good trainer of decoys. His most famous pupil is your personal favorite Tim, Fernando Dosta.


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## Timothy Stacy

Jesus Alvarez said:


> He's supposed to be a good trainer of decoys. His most famous pupil is your personal favorite Tim, Fernando Dosta.


That's what I thought Jesus. I thought it was weird that Daniel did not like the methods. Everyone learns differently I guess


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## Daniel Lybbert

I would imagine Ludovic can train a decoy. I would like him to train me even. I just would start my new decoys different. That is all I was saying.


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## Justin Gannon

The kid loved it. The dogs had fun. Was it safe for the dogs and kid? NO. We all train people differently. To be honest I am more worried about the dogs health. The kid had no awareness of the dog being twisted up. I would kill to have a young kid like that to teach. Ivan and ludovic are awesome trainers and decoys.


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## Joby Becker

Thomas Barriano said:


> The video is ~25 years old and copyrighted. If was filmed mainly in and around Denver,Colorado with police dogs and inexperienced decoys. Do you know any of the people in the CTS video? I do. Do you know any of the people in the original video? I do.
> This isn't about the safety of the kid. Ivan and Ludivic have spent more time in a bite suit then everyone that's replied to this thread. The dog was solid on the bite with no transfer of grip and NO danger to the kid. This is another case of you side tracking a thread with ego stroking nonsense that has little to do with the topic.


Thomas, like I said, nothing ever happens til it happens..

Fukking accidental bites happen, even with sport dogs..

Let me ask you this, if you saw the same exact video, with ME and my buddy, training a kid in the suit, and it was exactly the same, what would you think? what would your comment be? what if it was a Donovan video? LOL

since you know Stewart...ask him to watch the video, and see what he says...


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## Kevin Cyr

Joby Becker said:


> Thomas, like I said, nothing ever happens til it happens..
> 
> Fukking accidental bites happen, even with sport dogs..
> 
> Let me ask you this, if you saw the same exact video, with ME and my buddy, training a kid in the suit, and it was exactly the same, what would you think? what would your comment be? what if it was a Donovan video? LOL
> 
> since you know Stewart...ask him to watch the video, and see what he says...


 
I will ask Hilliard, I am curious to what he will say today, but I have a feeling, and I do think he will think different than previous, knowing how he has evolved


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## Thomas Barriano

But it's not about you or Donovan. It's about the video I posted and the people in THAT video. Not about what could have happened in another situation with another dog or other trainers or other decoys.


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## Joby Becker

Thomas Barriano said:


> But it's not about you or Donovan. It's about the video I posted and the people in THAT video. Not about what could have happened in another situation with another dog or other trainers or other decoys.


dude, you are really a piwce of work, call me a junkyard PP trainer and ghetto trainer. of which I am neither...and insult me for pointing out a glaring fukking safety issue with a new decoy...

and then try to argue about safety in dog training.

are you of the opinion that was as safe as it could be, with a new decoy? 

or are you of the opinion that the people involved, regardless of what went on, makes it as safe as it could be, because of who they are?

addition...who posted this video on Facebook? I will gladly ask them as well...and bypass the nuthuggers...


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## Zakia Days

Joby Becker said:


> It was filmed in the ghetto, with some junkyard PP trainers I think..


Ur a riot Joby:lol:!


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