# Video of the day



## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Since Fred is gone I figured I would help out because I can't stay off his channel!

So the question is can your dog do this? and until tomorrow sit means sit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZ6RLxLEmE


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Since Fred is gone I figured I would help out because I can't stay off his channel!
> 
> So the question is can your dog do this? and until tomorrow sit means sit!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZ6RLxLEmE


LMAO! I hear that Statesville has openings :lol:

Hope you're getting commisions out advertising for SMS?!


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Fred is not paying me for advertising unless I buy into the SMS franchise. I'd have to throw out my e-collar and get a Fred Hassen 8 time improved version SMS collar. Old collars just don't have the right ohm to amp ratio to deliver the output necessary to train a dog. :roll:

I'll stay away from Statesville!!!!


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## Donna DeYoung (Jan 29, 2010)

maybe they should state the point of it? I don't get it. or maybe I'm just not easily impressed. I know a guy who teaches his horses to sit their butts on a bean bag, too.
D


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## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Donna DeYoung said:


> maybe they should state the point of it? I don't get it. or maybe I'm just not easily impressed. I know a guy who teaches his horses to sit their butts on a bean bag, too.
> D


David trains with Jon Langdon in Denver. 

Jon's dog Remi currently holds the world record in Dock diving Big Air.

Jon and David use this in training for that venue. 

I am not sure if the record was set before or after this method of training was used but Jon did mention he has noticed a difference in Remi's take offs.

I hope it helps Remi out as he has been honored with an all expenses paid trip to the worlds to be held in England.

Jon's dog is out of one of Rick Rutt's dogs Tracy de la Plaine des Cheyennes

Tracy is also the dam of my pup Finnegan Du Chemin aux Legendes.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

> Guess there is no chance of him flying away, huh?


Damnit :-$[-X 

LOL:lol:


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Since Fred is gone I figured I would help out because I can't stay off his channel!
> 
> So the question is can your dog do this? and until tomorrow sit means sit!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZ6RLxLEmE


not exactly, but can his dogs do this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkFSE3xiMB8


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> not exactly, but can his dogs do this ?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkFSE3xiMB8


Damnit Gerry...another class I'll have to sign up for \\/ Do I get a discount for taking both classes? 

And until tomorrow remember that "fetch means fetch" :grin:


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Since Fred is gone I figured I would help out because I can't stay off his channel!
> 
> So the question is can your dog do this? and until tomorrow sit means sit!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZ6RLxLEmE


 
Fred's gone? Say it aint so! Sh!t, who going to answer all our questions now?:-k


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> Fred's gone? Say it aint so! Sh!t, who going to answer all our questions now?:-k


The same person who answers them now...nobody  moohahahahaha


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Craig, Alfredo and 'Puma' just jumped 27 feet 9 inches today.




Craig Wood said:


> David trains with Jon Langdon in Denver.
> 
> Jon's dog Remi currently holds the world record in Dock diving Big Air.
> 
> ...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Are SMS trainers required to use Malinois as their demo dogs? That's what it seems. Show me the money with a bassett or an Afghan hound. A good Malinois is almost cheating.


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## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Are SMS trainers required to use Malinois as their demo dogs? That's what it seems. Show me the money with a bassett or an Afghan hound. A good Malinois is almost cheating.



Maren
My dog Taffy is a Lab Border Collie Mix. She is a rescue from Denver. I can not tell you how many times people have come up to me and said I had a dog just like that when I was growing up she is a BLANK and BLANK mix. She has as much prey drive as our Dutchie or our Mal but has enough sense to chill in the house.


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## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Fred Hassen said:


> Craig, Alfredo and 'Puma' just jumped 27 feet 9 inches today.


Nice job Puma. Congrats Alfredo.

Puma has hops like his namesake doesn't he Fred.

I have hopes for our Dutchie Halo in Dock Dogs but first she and I are learning French Ring.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Are SMS trainers required to use Malinois as their demo dogs? That's what it seems. Show me the money with a bassett or an Afghan hound. A good Malinois is almost cheating.


No, telling this person to come back with an easier dog to train with all the proper drives and refusing to deal with it in the middle of the street where everyone can see.........that's 'cheating'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziLPAo84LSE


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Fred Hassen said:


> No, telling this person to come back with an easier dog to train with all the proper drives and refusing to deal with it in the middle of the street where everyone can see.........that's 'cheating'.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziLPAo84LSE



nice video, my wife likes that you matched the visor to you shoes!

Hey you never responded to my video on your proofing the stand thread. I still want to know your theory behind pushing a dog to go too far too fast.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> nice video, my wife likes that you matched the visor to you shoes!
> 
> Hey you never responded to my video on your proofing the stand thread. I still want to know your theory behind pushing a dog to go too far too fast.


 I've seen that one video of yours. Widen your portfolio. I got 14 year old trainers that can do what your dog is doing in that video and have the dog away from them as well with all kinds of chaos going on. I have people with no dog experience at all that can do that by the time they get out of our school. I got seminar videos where 20 dogs can do that in 2 days. You got one dog and it's yours, and for all I know, it likes the kong more than it likes to bite.

I wanna see trainers you are producing and how versatile they are. I wanna see people that are getting out there and doing well in all kinds of things and are having success with all kinds of dogs and in all kinds of areas. Heck, you are spending all your time in one area, and I haven't seen anything from others that you have trained or other dogs. That's an elementary school exercise that I could get on the phone tommorrow and have 10 trainers of ours send a video duplicating that, and probably 8 of them were nurses, in junior high, or never even had a mal or did bitework as of a couple years ago, and they'd do that with 4 other dogs around them and 2 more decoys, and we are just a bunch of stupid, no nothing pet dog trainers that you keep watching all our videos. Guys who come out of our police school can do that in 2 days, and they go on and win trials also.  Doesn't even appear like you have very many that can duplicate that, and it's elementary school. Too fast too soon? Great, then don't worry about it. Quit watching em.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

i didn't use an ecollar. nor did i employ a color coordinated outfit.

any day of the week fred. $1000 you and your dog vs mine doing random ob w/o collars





Fred Hassen said:


> I've seen that one video of yours. Widen your portfolio. I got 14 year old trainers that can do what your dog is doing in that video and have the dog away from them as well with all kinds of chaos going on. I have people with no dog experience at all that can do that by the time they get out of our school. I got seminar videos where 20 dogs can do that in 2 days. You got one dog and it's yours, and for all I know, it likes the kong more than it likes to bite.
> 
> I wanna see trainers you are producing and how versatile they are. I wanna see people that are getting out there and doing well in all kinds of things and are having success with all kinds of dogs and in all kinds of areas. Heck, you are spending all your time in one area, and I haven't seen anything from others that you have trained or other dogs. That's an elementary school exercise that I could get on the phone tommorrow and have 10 trainers of ours send a video duplicating that, and probably 8 of them were nurses, in junior high, or never even had a mal or did bitework as of a couple years ago, and they'd do that with 4 other dogs around them and 2 more decoys, and we are just a bunch of stupid, no nothing pet dog trainers that you keep watching all our videos. Guys who come out of our police school can do that in 2 days, and they go on and win trials also. Doesn't even appear like you have very many that can duplicate that, and it's elementary school. Too fast too soon? Great, then don't worry about it. Quit watching em.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Fred Hassen said:


> I've seen that one video of yours. Widen your portfolio. I got 14 year old trainers that can do what your dog is doing in that video and have the dog away from them as well with all kinds of chaos going on. I have people with no dog experience at all that can do that by the time they get out of our school. I got seminar videos where 20 dogs can do that in 2 days. You got one dog and it's yours, and for all I know, it likes the kong more than it likes to bite.
> 
> I wanna see trainers you are producing and how versatile they are. I wanna see people that are getting out there and doing well in all kinds of things and are having success with all kinds of dogs and in all kinds of areas. Heck, you are spending all your time in one area, and I haven't seen anything from others that you have trained or other dogs. That's an elementary school exercise that I could get on the phone tommorrow and have 10 trainers of ours send a video duplicating that, and probably 8 of them were nurses, in junior high, or never even had a mal or did bitework as of a couple years ago, and they'd do that with 4 other dogs around them and 2 more decoys, and we are just a bunch of stupid, no nothing pet dog trainers that you keep watching all our videos. Guys who come out of our police school can do that in 2 days, and they go on and win trials also. Doesn't even appear like you have very many that can duplicate that, and it's elementary school. Too fast too soon? Great, then don't worry about it. Quit watching em.


I'd be interested to see how versatile your students are in their training methods. Could they do all that without using a collar? Or is their "versatility" limited by the equipment they have on hand to train their dogs?


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> i didn't use an ecollar. nor did i employ a color coordinated outfit.
> 
> any day of the week fred. $1000 you and your dog vs mine doing random ob w/o collars


Chris, any day that you would like to compare accomplishments in established dog sports that don't allow equipment on (not some backyard made up game), as that is the truest test, and by students then I would be more than happy to take you on that bet as it could be verified, and I'll raise the odds as high as you'd like to go.

I've been on a Championship podium in the only 2 dog sports I've ever competed in, and neither one of them allows collars. The sports are totally unrelated, and it's doubtful you can even name another dog trainer in the history of mankind that has been on a Championship podium in 2 distinctly different arenas, and if you can...........there probably ain't more than 1 or 2 of them and it's doubtful that neither of them were you. I won't even get in to the students of ours that have had perfect scores in AKC obedience, graduates that have been to Police Nationals, graduates that have zipped through FEMA tests and become judges, have passed retriever tests and go on and on.

Now, I really don't have the time to hear about your little made up back yard test with your grandmother judging to elevate your ego.
If you want to put your accomplishments of you and your trainers up, and I'll go rummaging through all our scoreboard with real-live stuff...........then let's go. Until that time, you will be best to keeping your comments to visors and shoes, cause that's about as deep as your gonna get. If you think something we've done is easy, then get your ass out there with your equipment off and get it on the scoreboard. Now, if you want to put your money up, then I'll be happy to take it, otherwise I'm pretty much done with you.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't care about your students nor your accomplishments. I care about what you can do, right now today.

This is gunslinging old west style. Get your dog take off the ecollars and let's see what you got. I put my money where my mouth is and I don't claim to be a professional dog trainer.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jackie Lockard said:


> I'd be interested to see how versatile your students are in their training methods. Could they do all that without using a collar? Or is their "versatility" limited by the equipment they have on hand to train their dogs?


read my response to Chris.....yes.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Fred Hassen said:


> read my response to Chris.....yes.



Not talking about ten minutes on the trial field. Talking about TRAINING a dog. I don't think you (or your students) are that retarded in their training/handling that they couldn't take a collar off their dog and not perform for ten minutes.

Training =/= obedience trial routine OR result.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> This is gunslinging old west style.


No it ain't........It's some drunk at an NFL football game yelling "Tom Brady sucks".


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Fred Hassen said:


> No it ain't........It's some drunk at an NFL football game yelling "Tom Brady sucks".


no it's not. It's a working dog board that is yelling "Fred Hassen Sucks" Tom Brady you ain't.


Put your money where your mouth is or take your pet training marketing elsewhere. We don't need it.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Not talking about ten minutes on the trial field. Talking about TRAINING a dog. I don't think you (or your students) are that retarded in their training/handling that they couldn't take a collar off their dog and not perform for ten minutes.
> 
> Training =/= obedience trial routine OR result.



Of course a trial field.........and as versatile as any.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: No it ain't........It's some drunk at an NFL football game yelling "Tom Brady sucks".

So you are Tom Brady ?? Oh the obvious shit in that statement. Makes sense why you wear that gay visor. You think you are a football star. LOL


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Nice avoidance. Guess I have to remain on my position of wanting video evidence of you TRAINING something, anything, without your fancy collar.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Nice avoidance. Guess I have to remain on my position of wanting video evidence of you TRAINING something, anything, without your fancy collar.



he can't that's why he's not willing to accept my challenge. A true competitor like Tom Brady lives for the next challenge. 

Fred either can't afford $1000 or he simply can't train a dog without an ecollar.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> he can't that's why he's not willing to accept my challenge. A true competitor like Tom Brady lives for the next challenge.
> 
> Fred either can't afford $1000 or he simply can't train a dog without an ecollar.


Why do you think his voice is so raspy? Years of yelling at dogs? Now he communicates through electricity! \\/


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Why do you think his voice is so raspy? Years of yelling at dogs? Now he communicates through electricity! \\/



Tim,

If I had an ecollar on you, I would be shocking the shit out of you for that obviously wrong answer. His voice is raspy from yelling "Tom Brady sucks!"


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

All I know is my dog would rip the shit out of a parachute that is flying behind him. So then I would have to give him the juice for that. I wish I had time to think of some dumb shit to hook up to my dog for "training" purposes.:roll:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

You know what..lol

I think Fred is doing good things with his training, and is obviously successful, but I too am disappointed that he is not willing to explain some of the techniques here...

And also the repeated posting of advertising videos "ad nauseam"

FRED. WE ALL KNOW YOU WEBSITE AND CAN GO THERE TO WATCH THE VIDEOS. Start trying to contribute without advertising, is that even possible?

I remember hearing of a seminar hosted in Chicago where a teenage girl made you look silly without the collar on your mal, (WHO BIT VERY WELL AND WAS A STRONG DOG I HEARD, but wouldn't out without the collar, which is the challenge she made to you). She is a friend, and this has been verified by other witnesses.

Most people that actually train that are on this board, DO use Ecollars. Some may not know how to use them correctly that is for sure. Just as some Ecollar trainers don't know how to train without one.

You are very good with one, that is obvious...we all know this....how about helping to contribute on this board in other areas than just posting videos. I think people will be very interested to get that from you, something helpful.....

I know you are successful and have enemies, and all that, and you might not have time to deal with the BS, but some people here would actually like to READ what you probably have to offer, but never do.

Your ad campaign here with no contribution is even pissing me off now LOL...and I like your videos....

That being said. To the people that trash Fred and his training methods, that have nothing to do with his advertising tactics, I do remember my visit to Rick Rutt's a few years back, and do remember seeing the big "Sit Means Sit" vinyl on the back of Rick's truck.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Nice avoidance. Guess I have to remain on my position of wanting video evidence of you TRAINING something, anything, without your fancy collar.


No problem.........some quick digging here, but I can get a lot more also if this is not a sufficient start. 


I could dig up more pretty easily, but I figured 3 different venues would be a good start. Obviously doesn't count Police, AKC, Search and Rescue etc, etc, etc that all have to certify, or compete without collars, but I already know there is no one here with that kind of versatility. All this stuff in video that we all see in practice is great and everything, and no matter what your training style is, it matters on the field with no equipment on. 

The oldest of these is the NAPD stuff from 10 years ago, and the most recent trial is my senior test on the last listing of just about a month ago. 

1. Here is the Article on N.A.P.D. National. Also competed in 12 trials, and placed in the top 3 in either obedience or protection in every one of them. Also set the N.A.P.D. record for highest obedience score that was never broken. Raised and trained this dog.
Same dog also placed 3rd overall in Obedience at Nationals the year before. No collars are allowed on the dog during any of these trials.

Cut and pasted article.

Sunday, October 31, 1999
Copyright Â© Las Vegas Review-Journal

Following Orders

Maddy the pit bull wins awards for obedience, protection skills
By John Przybys
Review-Journal

Maddy doesn’t look like a pit bull — at least not if your idea of a pit bull is that of a muscular, snarling, teeth-baring canine.
Make no mistake. When Fred Hassen, Maddy’s owner, tells her to attack an accomplice wearing a padded sleeve on his arm, Maddy will chomp down and hang on for dear life until Hassen tells her to release.
But, other than that, and most of the time, Maddy is a friendly, tail-wagging charmer and just about as normal a dog as you’d ever meet.
The two sides of Maddy’s personality may be best illustrated by the awards she won Oct. 3 during the National Association of Protection Dogs National Championship in Rio Vista, Calif. Maddy, according to proud owner Hassen, took first-place awards in both obedience and protection.
And, in doing so, Maddy is a fur-covered advertisement for Sit Means Sit, Hassen’s dog-training business, and, Hassen says, proof that any dog can be trained with patience and proper technique.
Hassen — who also co-hosts a talk show about dogs and dog training at 11:30 a.m. Fridays on KLAV-AM 1230 — and Maddy, a 3 1/2-year-old American pit bull terrier, have been a team since Maddy was about 6 weeks old.
Hassen, who was training dogs then, too, says he “saw some local people’s dogs that have done pretty well in competitions, and I just kind of thought, comparing my dog to their dogs, that (Maddy) could do better than this.”
Maddy competed in her first event at the age of 11 months. Hassen says she has won awards in several obedience and protection trials since then, but this month’s win was her charter national first-place finish.
Sonny Henegar, president of the National Association of Protection Dogs, says the group was created about five years ago. One goal was to create a standard of performance for personal protection dogs, he says, and the other was to educate the public about protection dogs.
During competitions, dog owners put their dogs through events designed to simulate possible real-life scenarios, Henegar says, adding that “we believe in courage and control equally. So, you don’t have just a bunch of maniac, biting dogs out there.”
In fact, he notes, dogs must perform well in obedience trials before being permitted to participate in protection trials.
For the obedience part of her trial, Maddy and other dogs were judged on their ability to follow a series of commands in sequence as they and their owners walked a specified course, Hassen explains.
“This isn’t something you can prepare for,” he adds. “The way it works is, you don’t know what they’re going to make you do until the day of the trial.”
He demonstrates by putting Maddy through a series of about a half-dozen commands, walking a circuitous route with Maddy at heel, sitting, waiting while he walks away and then coming to him when he calls her.
Henegar says the dogs also have to deal with obstacles and distractions placed along the course. “There’ll be guys in `bite suits’ kicking footballs, and … we’ve pulled stuffed animal cats in front of dogs, and we’ve had gunshots go off as you walk the dog, simulating the backfire of cars. We have a lot of stuff going on because we try to be realistic.”
For the protection trials, dogs are required to cope with a number of real-life scenarios. They’ll be judged on their ability to attack a mock assailant on command, refrain from attacking a mock assailant, and even start to attack a mock assailant and cancel the attack in midstride.
Hassen and Maddy demonstrate this, too. As Hassen’s associate stands about 30 feet away, his arm covered in heavy padding, Hassen orders Maddy to attack. Maddy streaks toward the padded arm, jumps, grabs hold and hangs on, even while being swung around in the air. Hassen counts down from five, tells Maddy to release, and the dog lets go and returns obediently to Hassen.
Hassen again sends Maddy to attack, but calls her off about 20 feet into Maddy’s sprint. Although Maddy’s momentum carries her past her mock target, she doesn’t chomp down on his arm, but returns to Hassen.
Henegar says the concept is that a protection dog must be trained not only to attack, but to not attack, too. “Once you teach a dog how to bite, you have to take responsibility to teach him control,” he says.
Hassen is, of course, proud of Maddy’s award-winning performances.
At about 57 pounds, Maddy “was one of the smaller dogs there,” he says. “A lot of the dogs competing were German shepherds and Rottweilers, and she was the only one to knock the decoy (a man wearing a full set of pads) over.”
When she’s not working, Maddy is a friendly ball of fur. Even after she’s been put through her paces, still catching her breath and waiting for the adrenalin rush to subside, she’ll calmly cradle a stranger’s bare hand in her mouth on Hassen’s command.
When she’s not obeying Hassen’s commands, Maddy is just another frisky, inquisitive canine. “You’ll see a lot of people think these dogs are robots or whatever,” Hassen says. “But as soon as I give her the `release’ command, see how she turns into a regular dog?”
Maddy also is evidence of Hassen’s belief that dog training is as much about training a human owner as it is training a dog.
“If I were to take this dog, as well-trained as she is, and give her to somebody who doesn’t know what to do, they’d untrain her,” he says.
Hassen says he tells his clients that, even though Maddy probably is more highly trained than their dogs, they, too, should expect their dogs to sit, heel, stay and perform basic commands, regardless of distractions around them.
“The most important command for a dog is for the dog to come to (the owner),” Hassen says. “You can tell how well-trained a dog is by the dog’s reliability off-leash and under distraction.”
Dog training isn’t a one-time endeavor, but an ongoing process, Hassen adds. “You’ve got to stay on top of it.”
Hassen says some people might be surprised that Maddy — a member of a breed often thought of in starkly negative stereotypes — is so friendly, so obedient and so well-trained.
In fact, he says, “I train everything, but I get a lot of pit bull clients.”
But if you need further evidence of Maddy’s character, consider that Maddy even is trained to pick up trash in the park.
“A lot of people have trouble getting a dog to just get a ball when (the dog) feels like it,” Hassen says. “So what I’m trying to show here is that a dog can pick up anything you tell it to and come on command.”
Maddy, still panting from her workout, just offers a slightly slobbery smile in what could be agreement.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2009..........

2. Placed 2nd at the World Championships in Dock Dogs for 'Speed Retrieve'

Placed 2nd at the Dock Dogs World Championships for 'Extreme Verticle'

Placed 2nd at the Dock Dogs National Championships for Iron Dog (My SMS business partner placed first).

Also placed 3rd overall previous year in Iron Dog.

No collars are allowed on dogs during competition and over 20,000 people are in the organization. Everyone here is welcome to try and post results. Won many local, regional, and World qualifyers. Lots of videos of the World Championships are still on the Outdoorchannel.com website as they were aired over 30 times. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. AKC Hunt Tests. No collars allowed on dogs, and one of the largest and most competitive dog sports. Thousands and thousands of members.

Most recent trial - senior level, not even soft collar allowed. Dogs must run completely naked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7PoNUtRAHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcW8yCJd-EQ (junior test)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlmXkmTJdPI (junior test)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDHReaVmpAw (junior test)

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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> You know what..lol
> 
> I think Fred is doing good things with his training, and is obviously successful, but I too am disappointed that he is not willing to explain some of the techniques here...
> 
> ...


I think Fred is just having fun now . He made the promise earlier he would no longer post videos with his logo in it . That lasted a little while then he realized that did him no good because his intention was never to participate but to advertise . 

So Fred is back to his old self . He's been through it on other boards and will spam this forum until it gets most of the participating members worked up and thread after thread goes down the tube and is finally given the boot . Or he will advertise for a little while and take a break when people are starting to get fed up . He will then come back later and do the same thing again .

Ask all you like , Fred will not participate in depth in training discussions . He may adjust his style to very simple fluffy training discussions to buy himself some more advertising time but that's about it .


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> You know what..lol
> 
> I think Fred is doing good things with his training, and is obviously successful, but I too am disappointed that he is not willing to explain some of the techniques here...
> 
> ...


Yeah, well it's not the first or the last time my dog isn't going to come off with or without the collar, or heeling or anything else. A whole room full of dogs that saw lots of change but it doesn't surprise me that after 2 days of demos and training a ton of dogs that the only thing that she got out of it was that my dog didn't come off a bite which was probably less than a fraction of the seminar. He must have been doing a hell of a lot of other stuff then. 

This guy was at the seminar, and walked in with a dog that he couldn't even walk. Had a muzzle on, and was attacking every dog in the place. I'm sure she didn't mention any of this. He went on to have the not only the muzzle off, but came to a bunch more SMS seminars and we got him this dog while he was at school and here he is a year later taking his BH with his dog and no equipment on. There are other videos of his dog if you click on his youtube channel.
Maybe you may want to check with him on what all went on at that seminar. You can't please everyone. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbMTRD5sHtY

Collar is off obviously in this clip also. Take a look at his clips of his dog on his channel with his collar on also. Not much different.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Joby Becker said:


> To the people that trash Fred and his training methods, that have nothing to do with his advertising tactics, I do remember my visit to Rick Rutt's a few years back



I forgot all about that. We had a lot of fun training over there. Had to hunt this one down cause I knew we had some 'TRAINING' footage from that seminar. Brings us right back to footage with lots of distraction in the dogs face. We were over-exaggerating things here to have some fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm0pG1nOkNs


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1qN-CX1f1w


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1qN-CX1f1w


Is there NO stopping YOU?!??! You wild and crazy genius \\/ First we have "fall means fall", then we have "fetch means fetch" and now you present us with "jump means jump" with a little horse lunge line exercise thrown in. Oh be still my heart  

What's next for us kool-aid drinking kids?! And remember, until tomorrow....


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Am I just not speaking English or are the communication skills here just that low? :-({|=

Fred, if your last jab about the "TRAINING" thing was for me, again, I'll repeat: please show me you "TRAINING" a dog to do something (READ: not "proofing") WITHOUT YOUR ELECTRIC COLLAR. Once again, you prove that apparently it's below (above?") you. Or because that wouldn't involve your fancy collar, you can't do it because you're not marketing to your fullest?

Still waiting for a training video about nothing but dog behavior, pure and simple.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Fred Hassen said:


> Same dog also placed 3rd overall in Obedience at Nationals the year before. No collars are allowed on the dog during any of these trials.


 Did you or did you not TRAIN the dog with a collar? Do you realize that doing a trial is not training? Or are you just that great that you can just look at a dog and will it to do what you want so you're just using the collar as a cover so people don't scream witch?

What am I missing???


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Am I just not speaking English or are the communication skills here just that low? :-({|=
> 
> Fred, if your last jab about the "TRAINING" thing was for me, again, I'll repeat: please show me you "TRAINING" a dog to do something (READ: not "proofing") WITHOUT YOUR ELECTRIC COLLAR. Once again, you prove that apparently it's below (above?") you. Or because that wouldn't involve your fancy collar, you can't do it because you're not marketing to your fullest?
> 
> Still waiting for a training video about nothing but dog behavior, pure and simple.


Jackie I think you're wasting your breath and typing skills. It's perfectly clear that the only training going on with SMS is "steering" the dogs with electric. At some point these behaviors become "learned" but never really taught. That's why you'll see some dogs fall apart without the collar on because it's as much a crutch for them as it is for the trainers. The dogs have no foundation, nothing to fall back on without stim. Crack addicts! 

So in order to answer these questions you need to actually "train" a dog, hands on, grunt work. Also called 'sweat equity'. I think that's one of the reasons you won't get a answer, he doesn't know. Well that and if he can't sell the whole SMS kool-aid, he's wasting his time and money. 

It's a great gimmick, quick, results oriented...just what the public demands! And guess who cashed in on that market big time?!


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Did you or did you not TRAIN the dog with a collar? Do you realize that doing a trial is not training? Or are you just that great that you can just look at a dog and will it to do what you want so you're just using the collar as a cover so people don't scream witch?
> 
> What am I missing???


What am I missing? Your yapping about I can't do anything if the collar's off, and I send you a bunch of verifiable stuff, and you don't send me squat. What do you think, I walked on the field with collars on my dog, and the judges at National and World levels were just too stupid to notice?????? 

I don't care how you trained your dog, you said you wanted to see the dogs perform without it, and obviously all of this isn't enough cause you got 10,ooo championships to your credit or something.

Trials and tests are done because they aren't judgemental on if you trained the dog with just a clicker or whatever, they judge you on what you do without your training aids on (whatever they may be), and as it should be.

You go yelling and screaming about my dog wouldn't even be able to walk straight if he didn't have his collar on, then I show you all kinds of proof, and you just sit there and act like I still can't do anything without it, and don't show me squat. You asked. I know it bugs you cause you were expecting me to say "Yes, I've only trained a chihuahua to dance on a counter and he had to have his collar on in order to do that".........and when I called you on it, you acted like it didn't even happen.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Fred Hassen said:


> What am I missing? Your yapping about I can't do anything if the collar's off, and I send you a bunch of verifiable stuff, and you don't send me squat. What do you think, I walked on the field with collars on my dog, and the judges at National and World levels were just too stupid to notice??????
> 
> I don't care how you trained your dog, you said you wanted to see the dogs perform without it, and obviously all of this isn't enough cause you got 10,ooo championships to your credit or something.
> 
> ...



Serious question here...can you find where I questioned your credentials or stated that I doubt your dogs preform without a collar on? I've said the exact opposite several times (so I thought...). Don't get nasty to me because you can't answer my questions. If you don't understand them (clearly you don't) feel free to ask for a rephrasing, but your attitude just tells me that you're insecure. I'm not yelling and screaming about shit, I honestly don't care about you enough to do so. Not sure if that comment was addressed to me or not, but figured I'd cover it, not that it will be read and comprehended anyway.

I also don't care how my credentials compare to yours, how many dogs I've trained/titled/whatever because it is all irrelevant to my comments. I didn't see where you've asked questioned about how I train, what I train in, or video demonstrations but I'll be honest and tell you that I will answer your questions as vaguely as you've answered mine.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Fred Hassen said:


> "Yes, I've only trained a chihuahua to dance on a counter and he had to have his collar on in order to do that".


That's one of my training modules...Plagiarism Whore :-x


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

I find this discussion interesting. I would love to see the Chris v's Fred in the $1000 challange. I remember something like this going on between Fred and Donn Yarnell in Vegas a number of years ago. I think it was the LVPD K9 unit which Donn had been training vs Freds pit or something. Never saw the video but word on the street was Fred came off better.
I understand that Fred doesnt mind a bit of advertising, you got to pay for that hummer someway. But I think its a bit dangerous to write off the whole SMS team, especially when it has people like Walled in there who quite frankly would out train most on this list, inc me.
I dont know Fred, nor have any connection to SMS. I use e-collars for compulsion only, and only on a couple of different exercises. Well with Boy anyway.
There are things that I dont agree with like using ecollars on 12 week old puppies. Its just not needed to get a pup to sit. Sure you can do it, but who needs to?
However, alot of people train using low stim and nearly train every exercise with e-collar in the NVBK for example. These guys are very high level trainers, most likely levels above 95% of people here, incl me. 
The advice I would have for Fred, not that he cares, is to get a good young Mali and compete in FR or SchH where he can prove his methods are that good. People will have to listen if you beat them on the field or win the nationals.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jackie Lockard said:


> Serious question here...can you find where I questioned your credentials or stated that I doubt your dogs preform without a collar on?



SURE! NO PROBLEM. I just assumed that your smart enough to know that a dog couldn't possibly get out there time and time again and perform with no equipment on without the handler knowing on how to still perform without it. That's like saying that the top Schutzhund, AKC or whatever trainer in the world with verified success would be completely lost if you took a cookie out of his hand cause he's too stupid to know that the trial is going to be held without them, and you asking "Hey, prove to me with a video that you are not lost without a cookie!!" and the trainer has already verified that he's done things that he couldn't use a cookie. Granted, if I've never competed in anything and am making up excuses not to get out there, it's understandable that you could possibly think that I couldn't do it because I never had. It's back to the 'Black President' argument. The statement of 'There will never be a black president' is only a little in question until there actually is one, then all the arguments for that are just plain stupid.......it's been done.

Here's your quote:

"Nice avoidance. Guess I have to remain on my position of wanting video evidence of you TRAINING something, anything, without your fancy collar."


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Christopher Jones said:


> The advice I would have for Fred, not that he cares, is to get a good young Mali and compete in FR or SchH where he can prove his methods are that good. People will have to listen if you beat them on the field or win the nationals.


There is no money in that, either directly or through sponsors or equipment sales when you take into account the time and effort it takes.

Quicker is better, but he aint stupid..there is no bad publicity, as long as people are talking about you there is no down side :lol:


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

LOL...ok, here's my submission. There's obviously no talking to you. Maybe someday when I have a spare moment I'll put my questions in video format since you've said that's how you understand best. Thanks for the laughs, but you clearly can't understand what I'm asking and for thinking so little of me you sure are taking questions from a n00b personally. 

Until then...


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Christopher Jones said:


> The advice I would have for Fred, not that he cares, is to get a good young Mali and compete in FR or SchH where he can prove his methods are that good. People will have to listen if you beat them on the field or win the nationals.


Hi Christopher........we get that everywhere. It started years ago with my pitbull. 

"Yeah, he's got a pit, let's see him try that with a Mal, they'd eat him alive. If he could do that with a Mal, I'd look closer"

"Yeah, those are strong dogs, let's see him try that with a scared dog".

"Yeah, it's a Mal, let's see that with a bloodhound"

"He does protection dogs, now if he could do that with a search dog, I'd believe it.".

"Yeah, he was competitive once with protection dogs, those dogs need to be beat upside the head to listen, it would never work in Dock Dogs cause it's a motivational only sport".

"Yeah, it may work with a sleeve, but I do agility and it will make my border collie afraid of the dog walk. He hasn't trained a Border Collie to the National Championships, so what does he know about that.".

It's endless.

If your smart, you will learn more about electronic training, and learn from people that are successful at it. If not, you will eventually get run over. Just the way it is. Ignore it or accept it, but I said it years ago when I started my business, and I feel twice as strongly about it today.


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Jackie Lockard said:


> LOL...ok, here's my submission. There's obviously no talking to you. Maybe someday when I have a spare moment I'll put my questions in video format since you've said that's how you understand best. Thanks for the laughs, but you clearly can't understand what I'm asking and for thinking so little of me you sure are taking questions from a n00b personally.
> 
> Until then...



Fair enough. You also wrote: "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested to see how versatile your students are in their training methods. Could they do all that without using a collar? Or is their "versatility" limited by the equipment they have on hand to train their dogs?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And again I say, their versatility in getting on the field and proving it without equipment is not proof enough. I'm sorry, but if you prove it on the field in a variety of venues, and someone still wants to tell you that's not proof enough...........then nothing will be proof enough. I wasn't going to ask you to prove what you are doing, but you asked not me, so I responded in kind. Good luck to you as well.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

See, it's like trying to have a conversation with a Jehovas witness.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> See, it's like trying to have a conversation with a Jehovas witness.



#-o I have to admit...it's really tempting to try again to explain it again because I really would like to know the answers.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> See, it's like trying to have a conversation with a Jehovas witness.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:
:lol::lol::lol::lol: Thats fuken funny :lol::lol::lol::lol:
I will say for my self there is never a day when my dog gets out of the car with out a toy, fur saver, pinch, a E- collar and a smile on my face even on trial day.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

What I'm NOT getting is all the discussion about what a dog can do on the field without a e-collar on. 
I don't believe that the point of all the sarcasim, etc against SMS. 
ANY training method requires the dog to be properly weaned off of training aids be it e-collar, pinch collar, food or toy reward. 
I think our objections are to HOW the tools are used.

Fred
Can you explain HOW you use the e-collar? Seems that question has been asked more then once and it's never been close to being answered.
This is a dog training DISCUSSION forum! NOT a dog training advertising forum.

Folks, this is like trying to trash PETA for it's BS. The more print they get the happier they are. Doesn't matter if the print is good or bad.
I'm a mod. Part of my "job" is to read everything on the forum. 
It would be very easy to put someone on my ignore list if I felt that person was wasting my time.
I do ignore just about any posts having to do with PETA and I don't feel the desire or need to expose their BS. It doesn't take long for most intelligent people to see how useless their BS is.
Advertising and marketing are what sells even if it's BS.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Your telling me !!! 

You should see the little fluffies flock to the bar for the latest cool ad liquor. They run up and are just so excited, and it is the same shit that we have had for years, they just bullshitted them into thinking it is the "new" thing.

Kinda like dog training. Always looking for the "new" thing.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1qN-CX1f1w


Tha's great. Can you do it without a line on your dog! :lol:


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Fred Hassen said:


> No, telling this person to come back with an easier dog to train with all the proper drives and refusing to deal with it in the middle of the street where everyone can see.........that's 'cheating'.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziLPAo84LSE



I love the edits at 1:30, 1:45, 1:56, 2:00, 2:14, 2:30, 2:45, 2:59, 3:27, 3:53, 4:10.
Did he freak out at some points?


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## Fred Hassen (Mar 23, 2010)

Timothy Stacy said:


> I love the edits at 1:30, 1:45, 1:56, 2:00, 2:14, 2:30, 2:45, 2:59, 3:27, 3:53, 4:10.
> Did he freak out at some points?



Done on a lot of them, it's just more of the same. You are out there for maybe 20 minutes beginning to end. So if I'm walking down the street for 20 seconds, I might cut that to 8 and then somewhere else etc. If they were screaming dying dogs, we wouldn't be doing it in the middle of the streets. Then again................you never watch any of them so it really doesn't matter. 

Here is my opinion on edited videos and watching others. This is what it would like without editing and would be too long etc, etc.
My Lab was 10 months old here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxP6oApFSrU


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I honestly think you are a marketing genius. The training is for pets, and pet people, which is not what we are trying to do. Pet people want it over with, and fast, and don't want to be seen as being "mean" to their dog, which covers such an absurd spectrum of things they make me sick.

How many hours a day do you spend putting videos on the different forums ??


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

Fred is the Tony Robinson of pet dog training. It want be long until he has an infomercial. The man must be raking in the money, especially with the franchises. Although, now with the economy sucking, the cash flow is not as great as it used to be. Hence, the reason to come on here advertising his business for free.

It is a sad fact of our society that there are always suckers ready to take the easy road and people there to take their money. People just do not want to put the time and energy into learning how to train a dog properly.

If anyone wants to learn Fred's methods, you can save yourself a lot of money and find the 3 action introduction on video from old Tritronics tapes. You could probably go on youtube and search for 3 action introduction and find people showing the methods. 


If you want to learn Fred's methods for free, you can go to Jim Dobbs website and look at his training articles. No hidden knowledge or secret handshake needed, just a little time reading.

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/index.html

Jim Dobbs was a pioneer in e-collar training. He developed must of the methods still used today. Fred might not give him credit but is using Jim Dobbs methods in his training.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

WHAT ?? Fred is using a totally shitty version of GUN DOG TRAINING ??

Say it ain't so


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