# Ring sport and dogs teeth



## Rachel Schumacher (Oct 11, 2006)

Everybody I know training their dogs in ring complains about their dogs' teeth. Some of the older dogs even have crowns. 
What are your experience? Is there anything we can do? Or is it the european costumes?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Only chicks with cats care about stuff like that. :razz:


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Rachel Schumacher said:


> Everybody I know training their dogs in ring complains about their dogs' teeth. Some of the older dogs even have crowns.
> What are your experience? Is there anything we can do? Or is it the european costumes?


My male malinois in France "Dexter" has jackets on 3 canines now to protect them and one repaired broken k9. 

Jeff: FR in France has always had a higher % of men handling dogs than women btw. It's quite common to have the jackets put on to protect the canines. [-X 

It's not just "bling" but practical...best of both worlds!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

There are men in France ?? LOL


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There are men in France ?? LOL


Too funny=D>


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## Curtis McHail (Nov 7, 2009)

Hilarious!!! Would I be terrible to get those for my dog purely for looks? My friend has a Mal with them and I love the flash when the light hits them just right in a search and bark


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think that the fact that you said you "love flash" puts you in the gender suspect catagory.

Are you French ??


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I sold 3 more Siamese kittens today so soon I'll have enough $$ to put the_ bling_ jackets on all 4 of D'Only's canines. :grin: 

It's the almost esquives (near misses) that usually do the most harm on the French Ring dogs teeth. Imagine a dog coming in at full speed and just catching the decoy by the front teeth. All that torque as the swings around hanging by a couple k9s.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Rachel Schumacher said:


> What are your experience?


My dogs teeth are showing wear but the wear is because when she was younger she would chew on anything and everything. Crown moulding, truck tyres, hard plastic kids ride on push toys, all sorts of dumb things. She also took off the tips of her canines on a slippery amateur firehose tug so that didn't help either. 



Rachel Schumacher said:


> Is there anything we can do?


Well without taking up agility or rally obedience. I would've crated my dog more when she was young and try to limit her chewing to safer toys like kongs or the like. Teaching the dog proper bite technique is the most important. All dogs know how to bite. But for the level of work we want a French Ring dog to bite at it, is a lot of technique to learn that can't be done by people who 'think' they may know what they are doing. So work with the most experienced people that you can. 



Rachel Schumacher said:


> Or is it the european costumes?


It's not the costumes it is the technique! Stay away from training in an indoor horse ring with a sand floor as the sand gets into every nook and cranny of the material of the suits and your recall tugs. That sand actually showed wear on all the clubs dogs teeth. Bungee work done with an inexperienced decoy is a surefire way to damage teeth. As you are exposing the dog repeatably to situations where the dog is straining to get the grip. It is akin to the dog only catching the decoy with the front teeth during an esquive if it isn't done right. 

Even though my dogs teeth have some obvious damage. I am not worried about it her teeth are flatter now and probably stronger since the teeth are not as tall LOL! ... She still bites like a Croc and she doesn't show any signs of pain. She is RAW fed as well lots of bones and she still has no problem crushing them. So maybe when she is a old girl they'll give her problems but knock on wood so far so good. By then she should've had a few litters to pay for the dental vet!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I am sorry, did you just say you sell CATS ?? WTF is wrong with you. LOL


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## Rachel Schumacher (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks Geoff! I do think the material of some suits can make a difference and like humans some dogs have crap teeth. I know a couple of former ring dogs that have no issues biting but major issues picking up metal. But I have only see the metal issues and chomped down teeth not their biting. I just saw a couple of retired FR III dogs (10 - 12 years) with excellent teeth. I feed raw anyhow.

@Jeff: Get into designer and preferably foundation cats :mrgreen:


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## Lori Longardino (Apr 4, 2009)

A word of caution, We had a mal who snapped her cannine and we did a full replacement. The dog learned how to get on top of the zinc ties used at the bottom of her kennel and the bottom of the fence around our yard. Since the replacement was out of stainless steel she was able to bite threw the zinc twists and escape. She became a real escape artist! ](*,)
~ Alex


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## Richard Rutt (May 14, 2009)

You will find a direct correlation to the wearing and damage of teeth and certain types of suits, more specifically the material used. Many suit makers use synthetic, or a blend of synthetic fabrics, and not only will you get premature wearing of the teeth you will see abrasions on the dogs face and corners of the mouth similar to rug burns with continued training. If you train 15-20 minutes once or twice a week, you probably won't have a problem, but if you train more frequently, you will definitely see this. This is one of the reasons the GTR in France added the following into the new rules 
*" the suit must correspond to the specifications laid down by the French Ring Supervisory Body (GTR) in conjunction with the French Sheep and Guard Dog handling committee (CUN-CBG). All new models of protective clothing developed by the manufacturers must be submitted for acceptance to the CUN-CBG and meet the standards of the laboratory with which the CUN-CBG has signed an agreement."*


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Richard Rutt;149514[SIZE=3 said:


> *" the suit must correspond to the specifications laid down by the French Ring Supervisory Body (GTR) in conjunction with the French Sheep and Guard Dog handling committee (CUN-CBG). All new models of protective clothing developed by the manufacturers must be submitted for acceptance to the CUN-CBG and meet the standards of the laboratory with which the CUN-CBG has signed an agreement."*[/SIZE]


Which suit makers meet these requirements now? I know Demenat is one but there must be others.


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## Richard Rutt (May 14, 2009)

I'ts a long list Geoff, but each model from each manufacturer must be approved. just look inside the suit (usually the jacket) and you should see a label of approval. If it's not there there is a good chance it's not approved. this usually only applies to trial suits, as Insurance will pay for broken teeth in a trial. Some of the Demanet training suits do use synthetic material and were part of the problem, but the suits lasted a long time! Just make SURE your training suit is all natural material and you won't have a problem


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## Michael Swetz (Jul 27, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I am sorry, did you just say you sell CATS ?? WTF is wrong with you. LOL


It's not a bad deal if you think about it. Lower vet costs and you can still charge out the *ss for kittens. There's a lot lower chance people are going to try and return the cat to you too.

Would I ever buy a purebred cat? Hell no. It's a god damn cat, I could pick up one for free. I don't care about the ancestry of a creature that justs sleeps 18 hours a day and licks itself the other 6. Swear to christ I know people that sought out cat breeders to get a specific type of cat. In fact I'm wondering why I don't breed cats.

If you want to laugh/puke depending on your personality, check out the following links.

http://most-expensive.net/cat-breed

There is also the Ashera cat, which costs a ridiculous amount and is a scam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashera


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Michael Swetz said:


> It's not a bad deal if you think about it. Lower vet costs and you can still charge out the *ss for kittens. There's a lot lower chance people are going to try and return the cat to you too.
> 
> Would I ever buy a purebred cat? Hell no. It's a god damn cat, I could pick up one for free. I don't care about the ancestry of a creature that justs sleeps 18 hours a day and licks itself the other 6. Swear to christ I know people that sought out cat breeders to get a specific type of cat. In fact I'm wondering why I don't breed cats.
> 
> ...



I think the people that breed the Ashera cat also advertise the Titan (GSD that sells for < $100K).

Yeah, breeding for certain traits in a cat and then getting them consistently....easy-peezy! It's almost as easy as throwing 2 Malinois together that bite and getting an awesome litter! ;-)

Actually you may be surprised how many people have cats for companions especially the elderly. The cats I breed follow the person around and seek human attention. 

True, a lot less complaints from people as these days many people don't want to put time into a dog. Many others don't live where they can easily keep a dog (no yard). However, I've had Siamese cats long before owning working dogs...actually since childhood before I even knew what a malinois was! Growing up we had pitbull terriers.

Since I breed malinois..I guess I dont' care if I own purebred dogs! LOL :grin:

Look at the photos below..my siamese cats have DRIVE!! LOL


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I agree with Geoff that the dogs have so much drive and chew on everything . 
When I was in Belgium they are having the same problems and they don't esquive dogs. On the suit note I am not sure because they use jute cuffs which is natural . Some of the people I talked to that it was so much biting conbined with the speed of the dogs


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

I was thinking about Dexter and his broken k9. It happened during a trial in France during a near esquive. However, up to that point, the handler/trainer was having trouble with him breaking out of vari-kennels while waiting his turn at club. He's destroyed over 10 vari-kennels this year. This could of worn the backs of his teeth. Ron asked the trainer about it and he said that he thinks the bite-work just finished off the tooth.

Any of my dogs with the tendency to grab at gates or metal are not housed where they could when work is going on. Dexter was never kept in a vari-kennel here during work as we have an aluminum crate and the dog trailer as well as our kennels (bars) which dogs can't grip and wear their teeth. 

A daughter of his, snapped her k9 on a bite as well, however she was in the habit of grabbing at chainlink and the vari-kennel and had worn the backs of her k9s. After the broken k9, I looked at the back of the other k9s and there were grooves. If you just looked at the k9s from the front, they looked fine. You have to look at the backs and then grooves were evident.

A Dexter son breaks out of vari-kennels as well, but I don't believe he's broken any teeth yet. I will have to follow up with the owner.

I believe the purchase of high quality crates to hold dogs pay for themselves quickly and also chainlink can wear the teeth (I've never seen dogs housed in chainlink kennels in France or Belgium).


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> I believe the purchase of high quality crates to hold dogs pay for themselves quickly and also chainlink can wear the teeth (I've never seen dogs housed in chainlink kennels in France or Belgium).


What do you see used? Something like solid crate panels or galvanized sheets?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> What do you see used? Something like solid crate panels or galvanized sheets?


European style kennels..most made in Belgium and Holland. 

Like this: http://www.workingdogforum.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=1724&c=14

in the photo gallery. We had ours made after purchasing a Belgian kennel and using it as a model.


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