# This is a NICE rottweiler



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

WOW is all I have to say. I'm told the dog has a little bit of conflict with the handler. This was the first session introducing the popping and patting. Its to desensitize the dog to the presence of the handler, not so much to build drive although it can have that affect as well. I hope you all enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW1ZXWRSGVI


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

have to be honest that Rottie's are not my kind of dog but this one looks nice and attentive in his work...very good looking dog as well....nice video


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> WOW is all I have to say. I'm told the dog has a little bit of conflict with the handler. This was the first session introducing the popping and patting. Its to desensitize the dog to the presence of the handler, not so much to build drive although it can have that affect as well. I hope you all enjoy
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW1ZXWRSGVI


Chris,

Nice dog and decoy work but the handler is a cluster fuk 
Seriously, if this is the first session with patting it would help if the handler had a little rhythm (you're a musician, can you help him out?) thumping in time with the barking reinforces the barking, random thumping tends to be distracting IMO
Also decide if you're going to pat or stroke (calming) or rhythmically thump (drive building). The decoy is kind of cute,
who is "he" ? VBG


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

The technique used in this video is actually what Helmut Raiser describes as "pressing". In essence you are showing the dog where to channel its energy. It gives the dog no other place to put his energy other than forward. This may be a bit over some people's heads on here though which is why I dumbed it down by saying its desensitizing the dog to the handler. Its much deeper than that. Something you don't learn in KNPV


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Chris Michalek said:


> The technique used in this video is actually what Helmut Raiser describes as "pressing". In essence you are showing the dog where to channel its energy. It gives the dog no other place to put his energy other than forward. This may be a bit over some people's heads on here though which is why I dumbed it down by saying its desensitizing the dog to the handler. Its much deeper than that. Something you don't learn in KNPV


Chris,

I've got Raisers video Pressing im Schutzdienst
Have you seen it?
What you guys are doing on that video isn't "pressing"


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> WOW is all I have to say. I'm told the dog has a little bit of conflict with the handler. This was the first session introducing the popping and patting. Its to desensitize the dog to the presence of the handler, not so much to build drive although it can have that affect as well. I hope you all enjoy
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW1ZXWRSGVI


Wow that looks pretty good! The helper that taught THAT dog to bark like that must be a true master. :wink:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> ... which is why I dumbed it down by saying its desensitizing the dog to the handler. Its much deeper than that. Something you don't learn in KNPV


 do you have a lot of experience with KNPV training methods? that is a pretty bold statement to make...


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> Its much deeper than that. Something you don't learn in KNPV


Chris you really put the tard in ignorant bastard! Haven't you been on this board long enough to know that there is nothing that the practitioners of KNPV don't know?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> do you have a lot of experience with KNPV training methods?


He has as much experience as many people on this board know about schutzhund.But that can't stop them from babbling. :razz:

Preach on brother Chris!!!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Christopher Smith said:


> He has as much experience as many people on this board know about schutzhund.But that can't stop them from babbling. :razz:
> 
> Preach on brother Chris!!!


:roll:


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> The technique used in this video is actually what Helmut Raiser describes as "pressing". In essence you are showing the dog where to channel its energy. It gives the dog no other place to put his energy other than forward. This may be a bit over some people's heads on here though which is why I dumbed it down by saying its desensitizing the dog to the handler. Its much deeper than that. Something you don't learn in KNPV


 Did you learn something new today? Couldn't wait to try and show your superiority over the masses? Feel better now? You should really check your arrogance at the door because it doesn't match your success on the trial field.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> WOW is all I have to say. I'm told the dog has a little bit of conflict with the handler. This was the first session introducing the popping and patting. Its to desensitize the dog to the presence of the handler, not so much to build drive although it can have that affect as well. I hope you all enjoy
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW1ZXWRSGVI


I don't know jack about SCH but it looks like this rottie (who looks real nice) has NO issues with the handler approaching,in fact doesn't appear to even notice the handler...at least in this video...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> What you guys are doing on that video isn't "pressing"


trying to learn the art of schutzhund..care to explain what "pressing" is? and why this is not "pressing" for us lay people? please???


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> trying to learn the art of schutzhund..care to explain what "pressing" is? and why this is not "pressing" for us lay people? please???



This was a little different than Helmut's pressing, but applying the same principles. Thomas is correct though that its not pressing. This is a good example of why its never a good idea to label things. It distracts from the point (nice dog and training)


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> trying to learn the art of schutzhund..care to explain what "pressing" is? and why this is not "pressing" for us lay people? please???


Pressing im Schutzdienst is a two tape set like 6-8 hours long (if I remember correctly) so it's hard to explain in a paragraph or two
VERY simple explanation:
Raiser has a "Functional Area" which is the exercise performed with correct behavior and correct drive. The functional area is effected by opposing forces (booty vs aggression) and (Drive vs Compulsion) compulsion kills drive and visa versa. It's all about the balance of drive and compulsion and prey/booty and aggression. The Pressing theory is over 15 years old and Raiser has moved on, but it still rings true today, even though most
people (me included) have a hard time understanding it


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Pressing im Schutzdienst is a two tape set like 6-8 hours long (if I remember correctly) so it's hard to explain in a paragraph or two
> VERY simple explanation:
> Raiser has a "Functional Area" which is the exercise performed with correct behavior and correct drive. The functional area is effected by opposing forces (booty vs aggression) and (Drive vs Compulsion) compulsion kills drive and visa versa. It's all about the balance of drive and compulsion and prey/booty and aggression. The Pressing theory is over 15 years old and Raiser has moved on, but it still rings true today, even though most
> people (me included) have a hard time understanding it


I/we still use it and prolly should be more often


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> This was a little different than Helmut's pressing, but applying the same principles. Thomas is correct though that its not pressing. This is a good example of why its never a good idea to label things. It distracts from the point (nice dog and training)


can you explain what is being done in the video chris? am interested...


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

The dog in my opinion is weak at best, any forward agression on the part of the decoy would put this dog into avoidance. A dog that will do sport work for sure yet nothing that would make me say anything special about him and for sure I'm not walking into a bad situation with the dog... just my take though.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Wayne Dodge said:


> The dog in my opinion is weak at best, any forward agression on the part of the decoy would put this dog into avoidance. A dog that will do sport work for sure yet nothing that would make me say anything special about him and for sure I'm not walking into a bad situation with the dog... just my take though.


You are severely misreading the dog. The dog was started at 3.5 years old. He's been all business from the start and making him a "sport" dog has been a huge challenge. Some people wouldn't know a strong dog if it bit them in the face (waits for only weak dogs bite face comment)

Here he is a couple of years ago at a protection tournament. This was before the handler cleared up some of the conflict and control. Patrick is a good strong helper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XV3XGANaw8

You can see how much improvement has been made in the last two years.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> The technique used in this video is actually what Helmut Raiser describes as "pressing". In essence you are showing the dog where to channel its energy. It gives the dog no other place to put his energy other than forward. This may be a bit over some people's heads on here though which is why I dumbed it down by saying its desensitizing the dog to the handler. Its much deeper than that. Something you don't learn in KNPV



LOL...i fail to see how KNPV came into this but ok...must be my lack of needing to watch video's explaining to me how to know how to train a dog or how to understand its behaviour...still say the dog is looking nice and attentive tho 

thank god you dumbed it down for all us DUMB KNPV folk ! well golly gheez sir wez almost dint understan whatscha wasa shoowin us..thanks for bringing it down from over our heads back to your level...which i would say is pecker level ? let me help you...YES ! yours is bigger !! now go back and play with it some more  and leave the KNPV to the people who have a clue about it...ill give you hint...your not one of them


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> LOL...i fail to see how KNPV came into this but ok...must be my lack of needing to watch video's explaining to me how to know how to train a dog or how to understand its behaviour...still say the dog is looking nice and attentive tho
> 
> thank god you dumbed it down for all us DUMB KNPV folk ! well golly gheez sir wez almost dint understan whatscha wasa shoowin us..thanks for bringing it down from over our heads back to your level...which i would say is pecker level ? let me help you...YES ! yours is bigger !! now go back and play with it some more  and leave the KNPV to the people who have a clue about it...ill give you hint...your not one of them



First Feliciano and now me. You just can't stop flirting with the men on this forum or thinking out their peckers can you?


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> First Feliciano and now me. You just can't stop flirting with the men on this forum or thinking out their peckers can you?



impressive statement ! if it came from someone impressive to start with....shame you fk up your own topic over a compliment...says more about you then me any day of the week

insecure much ?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Alice Bezemer said:


> impressive statement ! if it came from someone impressive to start with....shame you fk up your own topic over a compliment...says more about you then me any day of the week
> 
> insecure much ?


I never directed anything at you. The KNPV thing was a joke and not directed at you but towards the sport. You're the one who got personal.

Insecure much \\/


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> I never directed anything at you. The KNPV thing was a joke and not directed at you but towards the sport. You're the one who got personal.
> 
> Insecure much \\/



Now ofcourse i could say " im sorry for missreading or missunderstanding" but that would be as true a statement and your joke one...so im not going to bother :mrgreen:


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## sam wilks (May 3, 2009)

chris, the dog is not bad but nothing to brag about. first you didnt know what to call it. the you called it pressing. then you were corrected for calling it pressing so you said it wasn't. alice has forgotten more than you ever learned. you cant even agree with yourself.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Wayne Dodge said:


> The dog in my opinion is weak at best, any forward agression on the part of the decoy would put this dog into avoidance. A dog that will do sport work for sure yet nothing that would make me say anything special about him and for sure I'm not walking into a bad situation with the dog... just my take though.


Interesting that you find this dog weak. What are you basing that on? What is the doing or not doing that you believe make him weak? Have you ever handled a Rottweiler?

You also think that a dog that is "weak at best" can do "sport work for good". Is that really what you meant to say?


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Interesting that you find this dog weak. What are you basing that on? What is the doing or not doing that you believe make him weak? Have you ever handled a Rottweiler?
> 
> You also think that a dog that is "weak at best" can do "sport work for good". Is that really what you meant to say?


I also would like to what the "weak" description was based on?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> You are severely misreading the dog. The dog was started at 3.5 years old. He's been all business from the start and making him a "sport" dog has been a huge challenge. Some people wouldn't know a strong dog if it bit them in the face (waits for only weak dogs bite face comment)
> 
> Here he is a couple of years ago at a protection tournament. This was before the handler cleared up some of the conflict and control. Patrick is a good strong helper
> 
> ...


hmmm...tried to view the video....but it just goes to HIDE MY ASS, (IP hider)...wonder why that is? is that what David and/or You use to mask your IP when making up names on here.to play games...LOL....so was NOT able to see the video...

So anyone care to explain the techniques in the video? the why's and what for's??? Chris first said it was to make dog less handler aggressive, then said pressing, then said it wasn't pressing, said it was over everyone's head, seemingly his too, then he jabs at alice, ,who complimented the dog, LOL and says knpv trainers don't have a clue???

can ANYONE explain what techniques are being used? I am interested, otherwise it appears this thread was started for the sole effort of getting David some more exposure...


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> hmmm...tried to view the video....but it just goes to HIDE MY ASS, (IP hider)...wonder why that is? is that what David and/or You use to mask your IP when making up names on here.to play games...LOL....so was NOT able to see the video...
> 
> So anyone care to explain the techniques in the video? the why's and what for's??? Chris first said it was to make dog less handler aggressive, then said pressing, then said it wasn't pressing, said it was over everyone's head, seemingly his too, then he jabs at alice, ,who complimented the dog, LOL and says knpv trainers don't have a clue???
> 
> can ANYONE explain what techniques are being used? I am interested, otherwise it appears this thread was started for the sole effort of getting David some more exposure...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XV3XGANaw8


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

ok...I saw the video...

That video is about 22 months old. The dog looks much better now, 22 months later.




Chris Michalek said:


> WOW is all I have to say. I'm told the dog has a little bit of conflict with the handler. This was the first session introducing the popping and patting. Its to desensitize the dog to the presence of the handler, not so much to build drive although it can have that affect as well. I hope you all enjoy


Aside from you calling it pressing when it is NOT pressing, are you actually saying that this ONE session of popping and patting is what turned this dog around almost 2 yrs into the handler issue? If this is the first session of this type of work, which you state it was, the dog appears to be fixed already, which tells me this method IF this is the first time, like you said...has NOT been used to correct the issue, it was corrected by other means... what is this method used for, how and why? NO ONE has explained yet, is it over your head as well?

or was all the stuff you typed in the post just bs? to add to your post of video of David's dog? for filler?


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

Chris,

My initial impression when I read your post before watching the video was that I would be seeing something that was Special. A dog that was going to impress me with his abilities and be a strong representation of the breed. In turn all I saw was a dog that was nervy and was being helped along in his drives by both the decoy and handler. Not the WOW factor for me…. yet hey this is only my take judging on a couple of short clips of the dogs work. 

Then you imply that I wouldn’t know a strong dog if it bit me in the face, well fair enough if that is your opinion. My response is quite simple, what you consider to be a strong dog and what I consider a strong dog are two different things apparently and I am ok with that.


Christopher,

Your quote of my comment is inaccurate, re-read it. I said the dog would do sport work for sure, never anything about him doing it “good”. What I meant by this is that a dog who has certain issues can be brought through those issues by repetition, a dog who sees the same thing a hundred times is going to be far more comfortable in that situation then a dog who sees it for the first time. This lends itself to be favorable in the sport arena, lets take SchH for example, it is the same every time, sure fields, decoys, judges, crowds all change yet the pattern is forever, a dog can be made comfortable in this environment if he has sufficient genetic capabilities, which this dog does. 


I have been asked to explain how I came about my opinion on this dog. Watch the three videos below, all posted by Chris on this dog within the last day or so, all showing different times in this dogs life. As you watch the videos take into consideration the dogs body language, watch his posture, ear set, eye contact, tail, vocals, grip, his forward movement, and behaviors after the engagement once he has been rewarded with the sleeve and when he is simply told to out. Pay attention to how all these things change with the decoys and handlers presence and movements and how they change. Watch during the training videos how the decoy constantly lets the dog come forward and encourages drive through prey movements and constant retreat. Pay attention to the one time the decoy gets over the dog for a brief second, pay attention to the dogs behaviors with the handler. Watch it all… really watch it, I shouldn’t have to explain further, either you will see it or you won’t. 

This is only my opinion, I’m not asking anyone to agree with it. This dog is a middle of the road Rott, nothing more or less. Which when comparing him as a dog against all other working dogs, sport and real world makes him weak at best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW1ZXWRSGVI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7NkRQlhlWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XV3XGANaw8


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Wayne Dodge said:


> Chris,
> 
> My initial impression when I read your post before watching the video was that I would be seeing something that was Special. A dog that was going to impress me with his abilities and be a strong representation of the breed. In turn all I saw was a dog that was nervy and was being helped along in his drives by both the decoy and handler. Not the WOW factor for me…. yet hey this is only my take judging on a couple of short clips of the dogs work.
> 
> ...


Wayne, if possible and you have the time...can you please explain what the techniques for the patting and popping are, and what they are being used for, as it appears the original poster cannot or will not explain...it would be appreciated, since the "techniques" were mentioned and are obviously being used...it would be nice to know the why of it....


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Wayne Dodge said:


> I have been asked to explain how I came about my opinion on this dog. Watch the three videos below, all posted by Chris on this dog within the last day or so, all showing different times in this dogs life. As you watch the videos take into consideration the dogs body language, watch his posture, ear set, eye contact, tail, vocals, grip, his forward movement, and behaviors after the engagement once he has been rewarded with the sleeve and when he is simply told to out. Pay attention to how all these things change with the decoys and handlers presence and movements and how they change. Watch during the training videos how the decoy constantly lets the dog come forward and encourages drive through prey movements and constant retreat. Pay attention to the one time the decoy gets over the dog for a brief second, pay attention to the dogs behaviors with the handler. Watch it all… really watch it, I shouldn’t have to explain further, either you will see it or you won’t.


Yeah Wanyne I "watched" the video and I still don't understand what YOU think makes him weak. 

Maybe you can show me some videos of Rottweilers that you think are strong and I can compare and contrast.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Not siding with anyone here, but if thats a good Rotti, show me a bad one, that should be a good one! This was not impressive at all, dog is very slow, drive isnt there in my eyes and rather weak showing of any dog/breed. Actually, suprised some think its strong.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> Wayne, if possible and you have the time...can you please explain what the techniques for the patting and popping are, and what they are being used for, as it appears the original poster cannot or will not explain...it would be appreciated, since the "techniques" were mentioned and are obviously being used...it would be nice to know the why of it....


Not sure Reiser can explain why it works with any certainty it would be nice if the dogs could tell this is what I think.
It helps neutralize the handler to the dog and SEEMS to give the dog the feeling confidence maybe pack mentality, with the handler and dog are a team against the helper. It also SEEMS the checking of the pinch aggravates and pisses the dog off and and puts the aggravation towards the helper with aggression and strong barking the rhythm of the barking should coincide with the taps from the handler.
The hold and bark exercise the dog should stay close and calm with strong rhythmic barking during the guarding with full 100% attention strong focus to the helper.
There been many,many hours of discussions and theories through the years on pressing. 
It works, many of the Germans do stuff and get the results and behaviors they want from dogs you do this you get that and often its not questioned and it doesnt matter to them why it works as long as it works helper, handler and dog and thy make Schutzhund like any musical jam session.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Not sure Reiser can explain why it works with any certainty it would be nice if the dogs could tell this is what I think.
> It helps neutralize the handler to the dog and SEEMS to give the dog the feeling confidence maybe pack mentality, with the handler and dog are a team against the helper. It also SEEMS the checking of the pinch aggravates and pisses the dog off and and puts the aggravation towards the helper with aggression and strong barking the rhythm of the barking should coincide with the taps from the handler.
> The hold and bark exercise the dog should stay close and calm with strong rhythmic barking during the guarding with full 100% attention strong focus to the helper.
> There been many,many hours of discussions and theories through the years on pressing.
> It works, many of the Germans do stuff and get the results and behaviors they want from dogs you do this you get that and often its not questioned and it doesnt matter to them why it works as long as it works helper, handler and dog and thy make Schutzhund like any musical jam session.


ok...thanks...makes sense....so one session of this work can improve a dog like the old video to this one????? :---):razz::razz: I better read up on this POWERFUL tool


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> ok...thanks...makes sense....so one session of this work can improve a dog like the old video to this one????? :---):razz::razz: I better read up on this POWERFUL tool


Here ya go the book www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DGT222&AffiliateID=45071&Method=3
This DVD is a must have Helmut Raiser Schutzhund "Aristo" dvd with Bart Bellon I have it and have it loaned out I think there are a couple of burned copies floating around our club also google and see what you can find.
Helmut Raiser and Bart Bellon are Schutzhund gods


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## Wayne Dodge (Mar 7, 2008)

Christopher,
I don’t have the desire to get into a pissing contest with you, I gave my opinion (that is all it is) and took the time to explain what I was watching and when and then left it for others to make up there own mind. I for sure don’t have any responsibility to you to do anything further, even more so when you have an attitude that speaks of intentional conflict.
　
Joby,
Mike explained it well enough as I have heard it explained in the past. I am not sure if this training method has value in the way that it was used (timing issues) yet I have seen many variations of this technique that seem to develop certain behaviors over multiple repetitions. I will say that I thought the decoy was doing a pretty solid job of helping this dog build power in this particular exercise.


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