# Which E Collar to go with?



## Haz Othman

So Im getting a new collar for christmas, which one do you recommend. Feel free to mention another model if Im missing something. Want to stay between 180-270.


Einstein 400 TS
Einstein ET500A - Not sure what the difference is between these two collars

Garmin Delta or Delta Sport

All input appreciated.


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## brad robert

Love the einstein 400 great features and quality!


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## David Windmueller

I use the Dogtra 1900NCP for my Dobe. Has a 1/2 mile range and is waterproof. My dog has swam in both freshwater and saltwater without damaging the unit. I think they run for about $230 at Bass Pro Shop.


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## Haz Othman

David Windmueller said:


> I use the Dogtra 1900NCP for my Dobe. Has a 1/2 mile range and is waterproof. My dog has swam in both freshwater and saltwater without damaging the unit. I think they run for about $230 at Bass Pro Shop.


Have a dogtra now not a big fan of the quality. 

Im leaning towards the 400.


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## Hunter Allred

I have a dogtra 3500? Couldn't be happier. Used Einsteins. No idea what model. So far, don't get what the bid deal is. Still prefer my dogtra


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## brad robert

I like the dogtra collars one of my favourites is the little dogtra IQ i love the small remote but i feel the deal with the einsteins is the features packed into a little price tag and the durability of the item.The boost feature once you get use to using it fantastic and no more looking down or feeling for a switch or anything a higher setting that you predetermined is at your finger tips to put into action.


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## Ted Summers

I'd get the 300 or 800/K9 handler/Boss. They both have the "tapping sensation'' feature or as I call it.... vibrate. I use it as a silent recall or recall from out of site/ear shot. The 300 is in your price range and the 800 is $9 over so.... they are in the wheel house

The 500 has a 'beep' rather than a vibrate. Popular with hunting dogs. Also, it does not have the programmable boost function (very useful). The 500 is a force/aversion collar for retrievers. 

The 300 uses a Lithium battery so it lasts longer and charges faster but lacks some of the horse power of the Ni-MH battery in the 800 series. You can double box both with long points and a bungee collar (very nice). The stim on the 800s is.... smoother if I had to describe it (yes I've stimed my self :lol. You can see dogs with cheap or old collars on that have that tale tale head twitch or jerk when stimed (even at very low levels). You wont see that with the 800s. They call it "blunt stimulation." which sounds like you're hitting them with a hammer but it's actually the opposite. 

Due disclosure..... I sell Einsteins/E-Collars :mrgreen: and I use them. I like them and I've had Dogtra in the past. I like the 800/K9 handler, double boxed, long points. *If*..... you were so inclined, you could click the link in my sig line that goes to my online store and we do free shipping. \\/ and I sell other cool stuff.


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## Peta Het

The boxes on the 800 are much bigger/heavier than on the 300 or 400. I really like the et400tsp, double box with bungie collar (k9 version for black remote), very nice.


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## Haz Othman

Thanks for the indepth review Ted I will look at those models. Lots of E Collar dealers on here, who knew..lol?


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## David Baker

Ted, what do you like about the 300 and 800 over the 400?? I was looking at the 400 K9 myself.


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## Marta Wajngarten

I sold all my Dogtras and have a Martins system as well as a double receiver Einstein Mini aka 300, it's fantastic and more then plenty. 

I much rather have the vibe over the tone function, and the receivers are nice and small. I did consider the 800 but really don't need that range and the receivers are much bigger and bulkier.

I find the Einstein is like a Dogtra on steroids, similar functionality with the dial but so many more features and I love the fact that I can lock the dial so the level isn't accidentally changed and the boost button is a very nice feature. The receivers also have lights you can use at night to see your dog clearly and you can set the unit to emit a tone if it hasn't been used in a few hours which I think is a brilliant anti loss feature. The stym feel vs a Dogtra or my Martins for that matter is super nice too and doesn't have any sudden jolts as it rises.


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## Marta Wajngarten

I found this table very handy when I was picking which collar to go with

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cy9rdqja41ymwpq/2013 Selector Guide.xlsx


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## Hunter Allred

I've used other peoples einstiens and tritroncis... don't get the current craze with einstein... my dogtra 3500 ncp x or whatever, works perfectly. The einstein I found very difficult to change levels quickly, which I feel is critical


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## Haz Othman

A big draw for me with the einstien is the small reciever as Ill be using the collar on more then just a shepherd. Someone at the club has the 500 Im not a fan of the reciever shape so I think the 400 is winning for now. The K9 800 may be a bit more then I need atm. The smaller and more reliable it is the better. Ill keep my old 7100h dogtra as backup.


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## Hunter Allred

I don't think the einsteins I've seen and the dogtra lipos are any different in size


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## Peter Cho

Collar choice depends on your training style, skill, and the threshold of each specific dog. Nobody can tell you what to choose. However, there is one feature than make it the choice of many top trainers specific to the TS system. 300ts or 800ts etc. that is the programmable VARIABLE boost button. Instantly available. No fumbling around for a specific situational exercise. Losing the 2 second window for Pavlovian connection. 
Trainers who have multiple dogs always choose the ET800TS double. Why? Consistency of stim. Fast fast recycle time of batter power to full consistent stim power. Robustness. 20-25% more power. 
Why do you need more power? You may only need it once or twice in a dog life. But think about the ramifications of NOT blocking an unwanted behaviour when the distraction is very high. That unwanted behaviour will now be more frequent and MORE INTENSE. 
ET300TS is for dogs with lower threshold. Or if you want a lithium polymer battery with wicked quick charge time and very small size. Also it performs better when -12 degrees Celsius.

Also if you are doing Alot of teaching to turn stim off, as in a young dog, I like the 800ts double better, IMO

Now, is the difference a lot? No. But let's look at what the TOP competitors order.
They are ordering the ET800TS

Consider reading http://www.dogtrainerresource.com/articles-and-publications.html

Disclosure: yes, I sell e collar. This is my opinion only. 

But I tell you....if someone came up with a Martin finger kick system with the same programmable variable boost button on the finger, I'll be the first one buying it!


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## brad robert

Hunter Allred said:


> I've used other peoples einstiens and tritroncis... don't get the current craze with einstein... my dogtra 3500 ncp x or whatever, works perfectly. The einstein I found very difficult to change levels quickly, which I feel is critical


Hunter why do find the einstein hard to change levels quick? It has the same or similiar dial and then the einstein has the varaiable boost that the dogtra doesnt have which makes it much faster to change


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## Hunter Allred

brad robert said:


> Hunter why do find the einstein hard to change levels quick? It has the same or similiar dial and then the einstein has the varaiable boost that the dogtra doesnt have which makes it much faster to change


The one I used today... No idea what model... Perhaps the handler was telling me wrong, but it involved pulling or pushing on the dial while turning. I just made him change it for me... Heat of the moment and all, didn't have time for the manual.


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## Marta Wajngarten

Peter Cho said:


> Collar choice depends on your training style, skill, and the threshold of each specific dog. Nobody can tell you what to choose. However, there is one feature than make it the choice of many top trainers specific to the TS system. 300ts or 800ts etc. that is the programmable VARIABLE boost button. Instantly available. No fumbling around for a specific situational exercise. Losing the 2 second window for Pavlovian connection.
> Trainers who have multiple dogs always choose the ET800TS double. Why? Consistency of stim. Fast fast recycle time of batter power to full consistent stim power. Robustness. 20-25% more power.
> Why do you need more power? You may only need it once or twice in a dog life. But think about the ramifications of NOT blocking an unwanted behaviour when the distraction is very high. That unwanted behaviour will now be more frequent and MORE INTENSE.
> ET300TS is for dogs with lower threshold. Or if you want a lithium polymer battery with wicked quick charge time and very small size. Also it performs better when -12 degrees Celsius.
> 
> Also if you are doing Alot of teaching to turn stim off, as in a young dog, I like the 800ts double better, IMO
> 
> Now, is the difference a lot? No. But let's look at what the TOP competitors order.
> They are ordering the ET800TS
> 
> Consider reading http://www.dogtrainerresource.com/articles-and-publications.html
> 
> Disclosure: yes, I sell e collar. This is my opinion only.
> 
> But I tell you....if someone came up with a Martin finger kick system with the same programmable variable boost button on the finger, I'll be the first one buying it!




OK Peter talk to me about the stim on the 300 vs 800! When I got mine the dealer let me play around with a 300 single and double dog but didn't have the 800 which was the other one I was considering. 

I already really like the stim on the 300 vs my Martins. If ONLY Einstein/Educator had a finger kick, and could give feedback on the positive contact I'd be throwing out my Martins!


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## brad robert

Hunter Allred said:


> The one I used today... No idea what model... Perhaps the handler was telling me wrong, but it involved pulling or pushing on the dial while turning. I just made him change it for me... Heat of the moment and all, didn't have time for the manual.


 
Yeah your right but you only have to push it in to lock or unlock it if you leave it unlocked if you think you will need quick adjustment then dont lock it or even better find the right setting lock it and use the boost button for more intensity with a fast push of a button.


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## brad robert

Peter Cho said:


> Collar choice depends on your training style, skill, and the threshold of each specific dog. Nobody can tell you what to choose. However, there is one feature than make it the choice of many top trainers specific to the TS system. 300ts or 800ts etc. that is the programmable VARIABLE boost button. Instantly available. No fumbling around for a specific situational exercise. Losing the 2 second window for Pavlovian connection.
> Trainers who have multiple dogs always choose the ET800TS double. Why? Consistency of stim. Fast fast recycle time of batter power to full consistent stim power. Robustness. 20-25% more power.
> Why do you need more power? You may only need it once or twice in a dog life. But think about the ramifications of NOT blocking an unwanted behaviour when the distraction is very high. That unwanted behaviour will now be more frequent and MORE INTENSE.
> ET300TS is for dogs with lower threshold. Or if you want a lithium polymer battery with wicked quick charge time and very small size. Also it performs better when -12 degrees Celsius.
> 
> Also if you are doing Alot of teaching to turn stim off, as in a young dog, I like the 800ts double better, IMO
> 
> Now, is the difference a lot? No. But let's look at what the TOP competitors order.
> They are ordering the ET800TS
> 
> Consider reading http://www.dogtrainerresource.com/articles-and-publications.html
> 
> Disclosure: yes, I sell e collar. This is my opinion only.
> 
> But I tell you....if someone came up with a Martin finger kick system with the same programmable variable boost button on the finger, I'll be the first one buying it!


Love reading your posts!


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## Steve Williams

After sales service... Einstein wins hands down ...I am from Australia...when my Dogtra broke down within 2 months of purchase...let's just say they were less than professional and not easy to deal with!


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## Ted Summers

What Peter said. I'll say the stim is 'smoother' on the 800s at higher power. Yes, I've zapped by self. What I want to do is put them on an Oscilloscope to see what I've felt. I hate that they call it a "blunt stimulation." It sounds like you're hitting them with a hammer and it's not like that. If you could see it it looks like this (/ \) and the other end is (/\) plateau vs peak, same height though.

I'm with Peter too..... they need to build us a bluetooth finger kick thing. We sent a rover to mars (more than once) we can figure it out.


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## Haz Othman

Thanks guys exactly the type of feedback I was looking for, very indepth. I think Ill be going with the einstein system. Peter the collar is for IPO.

One last question about the collar strap. I have noticed my dog tires quickly with the E Collar on. So Im leaning towards buying a bungee collar or hawx system. Has anyone found that these systems help? Or is a two collar system the only way to go (significantly more expensive) so would prefer to avoid if possible.


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## susan tuck

I use double box with a stretch e strap on my dogs.


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## Marta Wajngarten

susan tuck said:


> I use double box with a stretch e strap on my dogs.


Ditto, I think the double receiver on a bungee collar is the best set up. 

I played with the Hawx stretch collar, I think it's garbage. It barely stretches and it takes a fair amount of force to stretch it, imo that completely beats the point.


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