# 2013 FCI IPO World Championship



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Results: 
http://www.fci2013.cz/index.php/en/fci-wch-2013/results

1st: Slovakia
2nd: United States (AWDF)
3rd: Germany

Congratulations to all who competed from around the world.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Good showing from the US, super job.


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## Dave Martin (Aug 11, 2010)

Excellent showing. Big Congrats to those who competed and their training groups


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

98 points?

This is the new Champions B routine. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=20mwq2KbLpI


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## Ashley Foster (Jun 14, 2012)

James Downey said:


> 98 points?
> 
> This is the new Champions B routine.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=20mwq2KbLpI


Seemed to lack power in the heelwork, a lot of the turns were wide or incomplete and dog didn't seem to take any of the basic positions. Sit was slow but the down and stand were good (apart from the finishes being too far around). Retrieves were good (apart from the finishes again) and send away was good.

Then again everyone has got a lot to criticise when they watch videos from big competitions. It does look different when you're really there and you can't argue with what the judge decides.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Ashley Foster said:


> Seemed to lack power in the heelwork, a lot of the turns were wide or incomplete and dog didn't seem to take any of the basic positions. Sit was slow but the down and stand were good (apart from the finishes being too far around). Retrieves were good (apart from the finishes again) and send away was good.
> 
> Then again everyone has got a lot to criticise when they watch videos from big competitions. It does look different when you're really there and you can't argue with what the judge decides.


And she adds why be critical, after being critical.

Just to add, the dog never really sits, the dog takes an extra step on the stand and the dog is to far away on the fronts on all retrieves. 

As far as being critical? I don't know if it's too much to ask that IPOs grandest event be a fair one. If it's not then why the hell are we training. And for me the judging was so off the mark. I have watched a lot of videos and been to a lot of trials. And it's does not look that different....where I can call out at least a dozen faults and the dog gets 2 points from perfect.


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

This is the winner's Protection Round, 97 points;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBKfhT9_F4Q


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## Ashley Foster (Jun 14, 2012)

James Downey said:


> And she adds why be critical, after being critical.
> 
> Just to add, the dog never really sits, the dog takes an extra step on the stand and the dog is to far away on the fronts on all retrieves.
> 
> As far as being critical? I don't know if it's too much to ask that IPOs grandest event be a fair one. If it's not then why the hell are we training. And for me the judging was so off the mark. I have watched a lot of videos and been to a lot of trials. And it's does not look that different....where I can call out at least a dozen faults and the dog gets 2 points from perfect.


I'm a he! (Damn unisex name :razz and I didn't say that people shouldn't be critical I say from experience whenever we've done big competitions ourselves and score big there are always grumblings about 'too many points' though I totally agree with you I personally think its a very strange score. I'm just qualifying that opinion by constantly reminding myself that it is very easy to criticise, especially when I'm not a trained judge.



Mark Horne said:


> This is the winner's Protection Round, 97 points;
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBKfhT9_F4Q


Now that WAS a special protection round. Very strong, stable performance with a proper bark. Really excellent.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

James Downey said:


> And she adds why be critical, after being critical.
> 
> Just to add, the dog never really sits, the dog takes an extra step on the stand and the dog is to far away on the fronts on all retrieves.
> 
> As far as being critical? I don't know if it's too much to ask that IPOs grandest event be a fair one. If it's not then why the hell are we training. And for me the judging was so off the mark. I have watched a lot of videos and been to a lot of trials. And it's does not look that different....where I can call out at least a dozen faults and the dog gets 2 points from perfect.


I agree with you - I saw an awful space between dog and handler at the beginning when cornering. I saw various "space above the ground sits" but also good sits however also slow sits. Retrieving was slightly far away but maybe trained so that the dog didn't push the dumbbell into the handler's stomach.

All in all, I counted at least -6 points, maybe more.

I missed the dog's "attitude". We used to have dogs that perfected in protection but were not easy to manage in "B". However, the dogs were sometimes unwilling but never sloppy.

I'm just going to watch the Protection.

I have to say, however unfair, I didn't like the handler:roll:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I cannot fault the protection. It's like he brought "B"'s brother out for it. 

It's not like the same dog?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Yes I thought C was better judged. He earned his 97


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## Gus Pineda (Jul 2, 2013)

what do you think of the winning dog overall (chris spod lazov)?


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

If you like and want a points dog you are right on the as dog did the job and near according to the rules and probably deserves the points he got. 
Sometimes it depends on the judge. Some judges like dogs who dance with the decoy, others like to see more fight in the dog.

From a personal point of view the dog lacks intensity and fight on the sleeve. His B&H is OK however I prefer a dog who tries to dominate the decoy. His search of the blinds could have been more intense.

Nice however to see a GSD take the title this year.

JMHO


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerald Guay said:


> Nice however to see a GSD take the title this year.



I'd like to see a GSD take the title. I don't like to see one given the title. Sorry but I don't think this was the best dog especially not in obedience :-(


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I know how dare I talk about the current World Champion. But IMO I think we need to really make sure that when we give out a V. I think not only does the dog need to be correct in the Large Majority of Exercises, but also have an up beat additude that show Harmony with the handler. I think it's fair to say, and pretty evident, this dog did neither in OB. So I am just trying to wrap my head around where the points came from. It starts to make one think that there are other motivations for giving such a high score to such an incorrect and lackluster showing. And if that does become the case.... That will be more damaging to our sport than getting rid of the reed stick, the attack on the handler in the one.... It will kill IPO. And that kind of sucks. 

I take pride in IPO and what it stands for. One of the things I am most proud of is that it in OB. Is that OB also be a demonstration of a harmonious handler/dog relationship even more so in OB than the other phases (though they do show it.) Seeing the dog and the handler are working together with no other distractions or attractions. Just a boy and his dog. OB is not just if the dog was a good boy. Which that dog was trying his ass off to be a good boy. You can tell he's not a pushy son of bitch...or if he was at one time, he paid for that shit. And some people might say, he's the WC...what do you know? What do I know? I know that when Someone asks about the world of IPO and what does a good dog look like. I can show them a dog from a lesser trial and show them that dog....and ask them which do you think is the WC and guess with almost 100% accuracy that the unbiased, no nothing person is going to be able to pick out the better dog. So, how hard is it to get this right?

I am with who ever said that the dog could show more on the bite. but He was full, and he was calm. I guess you could chalk that up to subjection. I prefer a dog that's a little more exciting to watch. I thought the guarding was solid guarding...I think the dog did a good job guarding the helper. It was the "Standard" style of Guarding. but I don't think he should be docked for that. I am not sure about the "intensity" being a criteria in the blind search, he was fast, directable, tight and he checked each blind....Those are the criteria. and Just for the sake of the dog. No one breeds to the best blind search.

And I will stop with this. Because I am a Malinois guy. If a GSD is going to bring home the bacon, I am glad it had to happen like this. Says something.


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## Ashley Foster (Jun 14, 2012)

James Downey said:


> I know how dare I talk about the current World Champion. But IMO I think we need to really make sure that when we give out a V. I think not only does the dog need to be correct in the Large Majority of Exercises, but also have an up beat additude that show Harmony with the handler. I think it's fair to say, and pretty evident, this dog did neither in OB. So I am just trying to wrap my head around where the points came from. It starts to make one think that there are other motivations for giving such a high score to such an incorrect and lackluster showing. And if that does become the case.... That will be more damaging to our sport than getting rid of the reed stick, the attack on the handler in the one.... It will kill IPO. And that kind of sucks.
> 
> I take pride in IPO and what it stands for. One of the things I am most proud of is that it in OB. Is that OB also be a demonstration of a harmonious handler/dog relationship even more so in OB than the other phases (though they do show it.) Seeing the dog and the handler are working together with no other distractions or attractions. Just a boy and his dog. OB is not just if the dog was a good boy. Which that dog was trying his ass off to be a good boy. You can tell he's not a pushy son of bitch...or if he was at one time, he paid for that shit. And some people might say, he's the WC...what do you know? What do I know? I know that when Someone asks about the world of IPO and what does a good dog look like. I can show them a dog from a lesser trial and show them that dog....and ask them which do you think is the WC and guess with almost 100% accuracy that the unbiased, no nothing person is going to be able to pick out the better dog. So, how hard is it to get this right?
> 
> ...


Total agreement, though I would say I'd be very happy to achieve that level of Protection at a World Championship (obviously there is always room for improvement). 

I would not, however, be happy to get that level of Obedience. In fact I reckon I'd get a clip round the earhole from me old dad if my dog looked like that in the heel work!


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## Mark Sheplak (Oct 28, 2011)

James Downey said:


> And I will stop with this. Because I am a Malinois guy. If a GSD is going to bring home the bacon, I am glad it had to happen like this. Says something.


Really? 

Do the 2013 DVG nationals say something?

http://www.dvgamerica.com/13nationals/results.shtml

_Does the 2013 _AWDF Championship say something?

http://www.awdf.net/

Do the 2012 KNPV nationals where two GSDs scored a 440 also say something?

Yes, no good GSDs out there...unfair judging is the only reason that they would ever be on the podium.


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## Paul R. Konschak (Jun 10, 2010)

Mark Sheplak said:


> Really?
> 
> Do the 2013 DVG nationals say something?
> 
> ...


It shows me how important your tracking score is in becoming a champion


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Mark Sheplak said:


> Really?
> 
> Do the 2013 DVG nationals say something?
> 
> ...


Yeah, sure there are good GSDs. Those ones got screwed to. What I am guess I am saying is that it's just kind of weird at all breed events like this....when shit like this happens. It's never a Dobermann, rotti or Mali that gets the benefit of judging mistakes, "we gotta fix the draw" fiascos, last minute tracking field changes, or rule changes.


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## Mark Sheplak (Oct 28, 2011)

Paul R. Konschak said:


> It shows me how important your tracking score is in becoming a champion


When has that been different?


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## Mark Sheplak (Oct 28, 2011)

James Downey said:


> Yeah, sure there are good GSDs. Those ones got screwed to. What I am guess I am saying is that it's just kind of weird at all breed events like this....when shit like this happens. It's never a Dobermann that gets the benefit of judging mistakes, "we gotta fix the draw" fiascos, or rule changes.


I don't think that it is slanted one way or another. Wasn't there a debate about Ivan and Ebor being screwed out of a title by a poor long catch? I don't want to revive that debate, but just needed to point out a recent example of controversy. 

I understand your point about the last minute tracking changes and the uneven conditions. I doubt that it was directed specifically at a breed, although it ended up that way.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Mark Sheplak said:


> When has that been different?


Look at Ugne and Ayla at the DVG nationals 97 ob and 96 protection. She qualified at our club trial with a 97 track on Sod. They switch to plowed dirt
(not a lot in NM where she is from) and she gets a 65 :-(

I'd still like to hear why the Tracking change was made.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Mark Sheplak said:


> I doubt that it was directed specifically at a breed, although it ended up that way.


That would depend on who asked for the tracking changes and who decided to make the last minute change?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Mark Sheplak said:


> I don't think that it is slanted one way or another. Wasn't there a debate about Ivan and Ebor being screwed out of a title by a poor long catch? I don't want to revive that debate, but just needed to point out a recent example of controversy.
> 
> I understand your point about the last minute tracking changes and the uneven conditions. I doubt that it was directed specifically at a breed, although it ended up that way.


First, I have dealt with Marcus in Business and have chatted with him casually. First, I am just gonna say this. There are other dogs I am sure would have gotten that bite. Second, Marcus, I believe on every level is a stand up guy, and did not try to screw Ivan. If there was a mistake, it was just that a mistake. And I could see if the judge here missed on thing...They are at times writing, and the do not have all the angles of view, so something could be missed. If you watch that routine. You can come with at least a dozen one point deductions. The controversy with Ivan was that did Marcus make a mistake or not...Not was he trying to make Ivan lose. Which are 2 totally completely different discussions. What happened in the Phantom catch and what happened at the FCI worlds are too completely different arguments.


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## John Wolf (Dec 12, 2009)

Sometimes judges are just idiots... I couldn't imagine judging all those dogs and not missing stuff. I don't necessarily think there is any malice in the judging. I wish they did like the FMBB where the top ten dogs come back and re-do OB and Protection under different judges.

This routine got a 67 in the same trial !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v488PEbHB3M


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

John Wolf said:


> Sometimes judges are just idiots... I couldn't imagine judging all those dogs and not missing stuff. I don't necessarily think there is any malice in the judging. I wish they did like the FMBB where the top ten dogs come back and re-do OB and Protection under different judges.
> 
> This routine got a 67 in the same trial !!!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v488PEbHB3M



Can anybody translate the critique? I'd like to know where the judge took 33 POINTS


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Are you frigging kidding me ....I hoped that judge at least used some KY.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Can anybody translate the critique? I'd like to know where the judge took 33 POINTS


Thomas, I listened to the critique, hold and bark very good, the next two phases were very good and, after that 3 times Mangelhaft???? Faulty???

He must have taken some points off for his returning to the helper in the hide but here I heard him say very good.

I don't understand it either.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

John Wolf said:


> Sometimes judges are just idiots... I couldn't imagine judging all those dogs and not missing stuff. I don't necessarily think there is any malice in the judging. I wish they did like the FMBB where the top ten dogs come back and re-do OB and Protection under different judges.
> 
> This routine got a 67 in the same trial !!!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v488PEbHB3M


I hate that the FMBB does the last 2 phases over. First it puts tracking in a subordinate position. Second, I called it the first year they did it that the strong dogs would have a hard time staying in control and the dogs that were not strong but good point dogs, would do better on day 2. And sure as shit. And third, It kind of sucks a guy wins a three phase trial, and some other dude that could not do it right the first time gets a second chance.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Regarding the FMBB:

Am I misunderstanding you guys? I thought the Championship was determined from the first set of scores and then the top 20 repeated B & C for a combined score for the Cup? Or did I misunderstand Kadi here?* it seems the only thing I'm sure about is that I'm really confused!!! #-o *

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f53/fmbb-world-championships-23838/



Kadi Thingvall said:


> David and Luigi du Dantero took 3rd place at the World Championships out of 83 teams. Not bad (sarcasm here) for their very first world championship competition \\/ \\/ \\/
> They also took High in Trial tracking with a 100 point track \\/
> 
> The results are at http://www.fmbb2012.com/viewpage.php?page_id=32 *Tomorrow the top 20 teams go back to the stadium and repeat B and C, those scores plus the 3 they already have are combined combined for a competition within a competition , like a Cup and Championships in one.* Still rooting for David and Luigi


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Keith Jenkins said:


> Are you frigging kidding me ....I hoped that judge at least used some KY.


 
I like to see that the judges are tougher for an IPO3 dog at the WORLD Championships.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Brian McQuain said:


> I like to see that the judges are tougher for an IPO3 dog at the WORLD Championships.


Tougher isn't the problem, being biased and unfair is. NO WAY
the winner deserved that Ob score or that the other dog lost 33 points.


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Brian McQuain said:


> I like to see that the judges are tougher for an IPO3 dog at the WORLD Championships.


Of course the judging is tougher but that dog didn't lose 33 points...IMO even with hard point hits dog should have been middle to high "g" rating. 

I have no doubts one of our resident experts will completely disagree. :roll:


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Tougher isn't the problem, being biased and unfair is. NO WAY
> the winner deserved that Ob score or that the other dog lost 33 points.


Tough, yet fair. I agree


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