# fast attack



## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

hello all you wise men and women Ive have a question 

what is your opinion on the dogs that come exstremely fast i their attacks like you often see in the malis and some GSD but rarely in Rotties and other bigger breeds

what kind of drive is it that is driving the dogs to those fast attacks ??

and please do tell why you believe in this:?:

I think its exstreme prey and huntdrive because I think that drive is what makes the dog fast


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

milder batmusen said:


> hello all you wise men and women Ive have a question
> 
> what is your opinion on the dogs that come exstremely fast i their attacks like you often see in the malis and some GSD but rarely in Rotties and other bigger breeds
> 
> ...


I have a couple of big dogs that go in really fast and hard. I'd say its partly the drive of the dog coupled with the training in my case. I'm sure there are people who can give you a clinical, fancy dog talk answer. But to me it's just a dog with good drive and overall tenacity totally commited to the work. Without that commitment on the dogs part it won't happen.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Commitment for the work combined with the physical ability to go fast.


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

It is refered to the .....

Friggin dog is going to kill itself drive.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Martine Loots said:


> Commitment for the work combined with the physical ability to go fast.


I agree with Martine but will add "understanding of the target technique". I've seen quite a few dogs that on a single target (Sch sleeve, PSA presentation, etc) come in very fast, but put them on a French Ring decoy and their entries aren't fast. They come down the field fast, but when they get to the decoy you can almost see them going "where do I go, where do I go". As their understanding of the technique/targeting gets better their final entries improve, depends on the dog though if they ever get to the same speed they have on a single stationary target or not, if the targeting becomes second nature, just something they do and don't have to think about, they get a full speed entry. Full speed being whatever the dog can bring. But if they always have to think about where they are going, they never get their entries to the speed they could have. IMO foundation work, or lack of, plays a big part in this.

As far as what drive, I also think that depends on the dog and what drive(s) they work in when on the bite. And some dogs just seem to really like hard body contact, and will try to slam a decoy even from 3 feet away.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jerry Cudahy said:


> It is refered to the .....
> 
> Friggin dog is going to kill itself drive.


Like this one eh Jerry? Whooot!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBZYHdNZUDo


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## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

maybe youre all right we where sitting in the club discussing this subjekt but we could not agree which drive it is:-x

yes this mali is comming very fast :lol:


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## Jerry Cudahy (Feb 18, 2010)

No Joke, Nice Hit


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

milder batmusen said:


> maybe youre all right we where sitting in the club discussing this subjekt but we could not agree which drive it is:-x


As Martine says it is a mix of that commitment to engage with high prey drive plus the general genetic physical attributes and fitness of the dog. It is a package of these things. 

Having a super fast dog with hard reckless entries all I can point to, is that. I don't fully understand it, but seeing it in person .. I sure do like it! :mrgreen:


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## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

Geoff Empey said:


> As Martine says it is a mix of that commitment to engage with high prey drive plus the general genetic physical attributes and fitness of the dog. It is a package of these things.
> 
> Having a super fast dog with hard reckless entries all I can point to, is that. I don't fully understand it, but seeing it in person .. I sure do like it! :mrgreen:


I agree ;-)

To me I think that its the prey and hunt drive that drives the dog to full speed


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

I have 2 dogs now. When Chucky was a puppy I taught him to bite and counter every move I could come up with. Now when he is about 1/2 way down the field he picks his ears up and starts hunting for a counter. It really slows him down. My puppy I have changed how I have been training her. All the long attacks I don't take the bite away.There is a big diffrence in speed between the 2. The counters will come after the speed. 
I also think it is Genetic, I dont really think it is that much "drive". Training is a big role. Do they drag chains, work on a bungee? 
The dogs in Mexico are super fast.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Milder, I don't think it has as much to do with a 'hunt' drive than prey to me. With my dog it is all about the engagement and the trill of the catch. Like she will hunt for stuff I hide and we play around by hiding the kids in the bush for search games where the kids reward her with a ball once she finds them. While she doesn't stop looking and ranging until she picks up the scent cone and then zeroes in on the target, it is no way near as intense as her going down field when a decoy is opposing her. 

It is a way way different behaviour. 

More like what Jerry described 


Jerry Cudahy said:


> It is refered to the .....
> 
> Friggin dog is going to kill itself drive.


I know the people who have decoyed her and seen her entries .. know, see and feel the difference. Unless what your definition of hunt drive is different than what I think of it as.


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## Gina Pasieka (Apr 25, 2010)

Geoff Empey said:


> Like this one eh Jerry? Whooot!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBZYHdNZUDo


I have nothing to add to the topic...but couldnt help but say holy s**t on that hit =D>


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

that was FAAAST thanks for sharing that vid..


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

Commitment makes them fast.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

That video is sped up. I have seen a different version, and while the dog isn't slow, he was not that fast.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> That video is sped up. I have seen a different version, and while the dog isn't slow, he was not that fast.



 Old Bruce Lee movies! That dog is probably martial arts trained! ;-)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No. I will not believe that bruce lee was not that fast.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> No. I will not believe that bruce lee was not that fast.


They were popular when I was involved. You'd be amazed at how many believers he had. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Still fun to watch though but Jackie C made it much more entertaining...in his later movies.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I get tired of Jackie Chan. How many times does he have to punch or kick people before they fall down ? He must have the weakest punch on the planet as many times as he has to hit people. Gets old.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I get tired of Jackie Chan. How many times does he have to punch or kick people before they fall down ? He must have the weakest punch on the planet as many times as he has to hit people. Gets old.



I don't think he kicked anyone over a house like Lee did.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Bruce lee was that fast and that powerful. I will not believe anything less.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Karma has brought us full circle to your "Just because" post. :lol::lol:;-)


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## Christopher Jones (Feb 17, 2009)

We had a female Mali at our club who was only average in drive, soft and sensitive type dog. She was not a quality dog but she had really fast and high entries.


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## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

can it has to do with 

courage or lack of 

or maybe many dogs may not be good at koordination their attack when to jump


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

milder batmusen said:


> can it has to do with
> 
> courage or lack of
> 
> or maybe many dogs may not be good at koordination their attack when to jump


i would say courage has a lot to do with the speed and entry yes. 

Lack of courage can cause slow entry, 

or dog could have taken some hard catches and learned to be a little smarter about it....


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