# Hector



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

This forum is dead as a dodo so I am willing to throw myself under the train to try and get something happening here.

Here are some vids of Hector, some are shaping/heeling/turning on his operant lightbulb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpV8SHqt6H8&list=PL8uivWNc8_IQT_NEK1eV9HdOLJOpFuKko 

Next up are vids of how Hector is getting on with Biting. We are having a bit of trouble with this one for two maybe three reasons. 
1: Hector
2: Not used to doing this stuff with a dog that doesn't want to bite my arm off/isn't happy to hurt me
3: Hector has not really needed a full grip in his previous occupation as he was only used on bunny flufkins where a k9 grip was just fine (especially considering how big his k9's are they mostly passed straight through poor old peter rabbit) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD6PS1GGY7U&list=PL8uivWNc8_IRZfpKb7PB0ao6hgJk5WY3d

Like I said, all comments/suggestions/advices/flamings welcome along with me being happy with drive arguments


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

ALWAYS much appreciated Matt!

Hopefully the colder weather will get some of the people back posting. 

On the sleeve work.

He's doing a lot of gripping at your hands.

If you can use something smaller like a long tug then slip a piece of PVC over the ends so only the center section is exposed to his grip.


Muscle memory and success will eventually keep him targeting on the center. 

Presentation is everything and sitting there letting him make the garb seems to be creating some of the issue. 

If you've don a lot of tug work then he knows the bite is closer to your hands then center mass. 

A back tie can also help you to to direct him to the middle.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Hey Bob, I knew I could count on you.
That is just the first vid in the playlist.
Hector was having trouble with biting surfaces he only liked biting fur so had really bad surface bias.
The first tug I made out of rabbit skin and as you can see he loved that, I was just getting him used to other surfaces. 
I did have a bad problem with him slipping off the grip/shallow grips and at one point I was concerned it was genetic but that I worked out by adding more intensity and brought his fight out.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

You did right with hector. 

Some dogs may shut down with to much "fight' from the handler but I know you read your dogs well.

The rabbit skin was probably way to much fun for him and offering a harder surface was met with a WTH is that thing?! :lol: 

Try working the sleeve with a bit more prey instead of sitting down. 

Make him "want" to go after it.

I think it was Flinks who said, when working a tug or ball on a string that "the rabbit does not jump into the dog's mouth". 

Make him work for it with teasing and misses. 

Back chaining him to a pole or fence can also build more intensity when you just out of reach but don't go straight into him. Run back and forth in front of him.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I had a go with him on a back tie before but it kinda freaked him out, all this new stuff is spinning his head a bit tbh.
I also did a bit of prey/play stuff on a back tie with Digga (his father) to get a handle on if I had a genetic problem. 
Digga hasn't bitten a sleeve or even a tug since he was about 10-12 weeks old, I can't remember exactly. He near enough ripped the back tie out of the wall and crushed my bones! lol, so I am pretty sure it's not a genetic issue.
Anyway, so I got Hector on a harness (which was also new to him) and got him to drag me about the streets on walks for a week.
I put him on the back tie tonight and I could lift his feet on a sleeve so he's coming on slowly. He's also punching in with rebites and pushing now which I would guess is his baseline (the tugging being a stress thing) as his mother is a pusher and it seems Digga is also.

Edited for crappy spelling.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I really am not sure why Matt but I don't much enjoy watching him work with you in this capacity. Why? I guess the best comparison that might make sense is gay porn. I'm just not into it.

They're not remotely related but just the same, I'm not the least bit interested in watching either one of them. Now, when you put up that 10+ minute bike ride video with him? Well, I watched the whole thing and I enjoyed every bit of it.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Sounds like it's in there. Just a matter of building on it.

I know you often work your pups in a harness so it's something they have to now learn to pull into.

My old dog Thunder was a pusher and a puller.

One helper said he didn't like working with Thunder because Thunder was always reading his moves and getting him off balance. 

Schutzhund/IPO helpers don't like the dog making them look bad.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Tx for posting......the vids gave me some deja vous of Joby messing with his dog in his house //LOL//

overall, i'm not big on doing much of any training inside and sitting down

for me, tug and bite work training is better done outside where both myself and the dog can be moving fwd.....especially if im trying to build motivation 
- actually, i only do VERY basic beginning OB in a house and only if the dog has solid house manners first

but i hesitate to toss suggestions anymore if the posters are not asking for specific help with a problem or trying to formulate a training plan

i did scroll down the playlist but the one that looked like it was out on grass kept freezing :-(
----will try that one again later

yep, the WDF has all but died out

disappointed that many new members were all fired up about new pups, new dogs and soon to get dogs from well known breeders, but turned out to be like a bad golf swing.......good backswing but no follow thru //LOL//

i'm doing better sticking to my customers since i got a new assistant who can shoot vids and be my third arm 

a pair of shibas (mother and son) who are fighting at home are keeping us busy now ;-) 

but if any new members still wanna see vids of basic dog work (teaching markers, learning how to inhibit aggression biting thru interactive tugging, desensitizing handling issues, socializing in public, etc etc) :
- get the LINE (mobile) app and PM me....got quite a few training clips now that might help you in these areas
- it's free and a piece of cake to send pics and vids anywhere

not trying to steer anyone from the WDF, so step up here first and be counted 

but if you're serious i'd be glad to include you on our ongoing training stuff 'cause it's easy to do on LINE and the owners are OK with others watching their dogs being worked

so ...... happy Thanksgiving if you're an American !


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Hector goes to civilization for the third time 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNYw6uhOBp8


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nice to see you work in public. 

Hector seems like he's a bit off and on when presented with the tug otherwise he handles the public well. 

Do you make him miss occasionally in order to strengthen his drive with a bit of frustration?

I tried working one of my dogs in public with a tug and got tore a new one for "making my dog vicious".](*,)

Also, was that fine looking young lady on the bench just a result of you and your chick magnet, Hector or friend/family? :grin::wink:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Yah, it's still something he's struggling with. I feel it's a year of killing furry fluffy things which go "dead".

The beautiful young lady (she'll be happy with that) is Kath AKA "terrier girl" my OH  all the dogs love her and she is a way better trainer than I, she just doesn't do it much anymore.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

nice work !

- in public i'd use a (6-8inch single loop handle) shorter and slightly firmer pocket tug with him to minimize the floppiness and help him target/grip/hold and out more precisely...plus it's easier to present and hide if you don't like wearing a vest when you're out and about. i's also take a short rag along to build the motivation and give him some misses. just my personal pref, but i don't like floppy tugs. i only use rags for stimulating prey/play, and i only show a tug when i want the dog to BITE it and fight it 
- when the dog gets good enough to work farther apart i use longer leads but never take em off lead. i also switch from leather to biothane which takes the wear and tear of dragging on concrete much better
- you will often run across some lookie-loo who thinks you might have an aggressive dog or are teaching it to be aggressive. since public means PUBLIC i could care less what they might mutter in the background. but for the most part i find people enjoy watching the control and it also tends to make them give you and your dog more space, which is often just what the dog needs


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks for the reply Rick 

Personally I couldn't give a toss what members of the public think of what I am doing, they can mind their own business as far as I am concerned.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re : "Personally I couldn't give a toss what members of the public think of what I am doing, they can mind their own business as far as I am concerned."

i figured you would not be affected by them 
only mentioned it cause i like to do stuff that gives the dog some space when they need it
- like slapping a muzzle on the dog //LOL// ....that really opens up my working space and makes the lookie loos back up and 'make a hole' (navy slang)
- it's one reason why i always condition a dog to be comfortable in a muzzle


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Hector meets the wedge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zMQzoFN8oA


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Looks like he enjoys the wedge a bit more.

As when you were sitting down I would give a bit more room in between the two of you and move backwards more so he can "chase" the wedge. 

That will create more drive to engage. 

It also gives you more room to make him miss.

"Frustration builds drive". 

I like that he brings the wedge back to you. He "wants" the game to continue.

He got stronger as the game went on. His early hesitation "possibly" goes back to the wedge/tug being different then the bunnies.

I honestly believe there is more in him. Just a matter of bringing it out.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-sBCWkZ1-0

I agree Bob he has much more in him but I am having to build him up slowly, he's a bit softer than I am used to. He's an odd dog though, the more fight you put in the more committed he gets despite this softness, but you can offend him very easily also.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re : the Hector wedge 2 vid out on the field....

put a 3-4 meter tag line on the wedge and you can still let him win it while maintaining control so u can fish it back and keep him engaged if you are trying to tug with him

if you just want him to do a fly by and keep it, 'belay my last' 
(hard to tell since i couldn't see what was going on out of the frame)


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

He'll bring it back if I call him, I was trying to get him to take it back to the handler, but i had to keep telling her to call him, lol, despite having played out this exact scene with Sali, Indie, Becca, Tilly, Bumpy, Pickle, Reggie.......
You get the idea.

Another thing we are working on is getting Hector used to pulling into the harness as you could see in the vid I got Kath to put back pressure on the harness for a second. Once she can restrain him and he pulles into the harness we'll make much better progress in all of this. I will alos be able to put him on a back tie.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

More often then not any dog will bring it to the "helper" before they will take it back too the handler.

Simple reason, the "helper" plays the game and the handler usually takes it away.

I would try by outing the dog as the helper and then have the handler recall the dog. 

The handler gets the collar and immediately marks the return and rewards by letting the dog return to the "game". 

Yo may have to start with the handler and helper a bit closer till the dog understand what your wanting.

Distance isn't your friend when something new is tried. 

Make sense?

I do understand the soft dog. My GSD Trooper can be crushed with a harsh word or body language but loves to fight when playing with a tug under pressure.

After so many yrs with terriers it took me a while to figure that out. Onry little bassids! Gotta love em.:grin:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Tried Hector out for heel position without even a sniff of treats, straight out the crate fast asleep, he did well I rekon. Big distraction for him as Chucky and Hector hate each other:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_EzoHttBBE


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Looking nice!

I like to eventually get a full SCH/IPO pattern through with no rewards in order to trial.

Aside from that I never completely wean them off reward. I want them to know that their performance is always worth of reward

I don't see that as being any different then someone that uses corrections for training. The dog needs to understand that behaviors can either be rewarded or corrected.

I also watched the patty working under the shed. 

Almost brought a tear to my eyes with memories of rat hunting in barns and on hog farms. :-D

What was the cool looking, stocky little blue dog withe the great looking head? Staffy Bull x Pat maybe. 

Over here the Patts are crossed with American Pits to get a weight pull dog for the lower weight classes.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

That's Luna, the crazy terrier girls old school staffy. Was gonna cross her with chucky but she got Pyometra and had to have her guts cut out 
Real shame, she's awesome. Amazingly she is an awesome catcher of pigeons too :O she is ridiculously game.


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## Domenik Girardi (Feb 2, 2016)

what kind of a dog is hector?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I like the "old school look" of Luna.

Not the crazy, overdone look of today's Staffy Bulls.

To bad about the Pyometra. I went through that with a really nice Kerry Blue bitch yrs ago.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Bob Scott said:


> I like the "old school look" of Luna.
> 
> Not the crazy, overdone look of today's Staffy Bulls.
> 
> To bad about the Pyometra. I went through that with a really nice Kerry Blue bitch yrs ago.


Yah, and she is the last of her line too 

Dominik he is one of my own type of Pinscher.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The only down side of putting any bull breed to a terrier is it often creates a silent dog in the ground but I don't think you folks in the UK do much earth work to fox any more, correct?

That would still have been a cool cross. My brother always wanted me to put my Border dog to his small, red nosed Pit bitch.

Always thought about it just never got around to it. I could see some excellent heads out of that with very sweet but tough temperaments.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

I like hearing about crossbred dogs. Don't really have anything to add to the discussion, but like watching the dobie spring in Hector's step. I watched a few of your other Hector videos. He is an athletic dude.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks Gina


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