# $$$$ 9 week puppy named sun tzu $$$$$$$$$$$



## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Thread got erased somehow!
Last pup left named after the ancient author of "The Art of War". Long day for Sun Tzu today. These are all new locations for him but he handles them well.

Some biting at the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BCYHzqOK1o


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

He's a happy little ****er. I really liked the beginning and all the tubes to jump.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Puppies are cool


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Yeah they are cool at this age and he sure is happy too. What's funny is how everyone talks about puppies being a crap shoot. This was my last pick at 7 weeks. At 5 weeks he looked good, 6 weeks not so good! Then he started coming on strong at 7 1/2 weeks. Never can tell I guess. He was definitely the smallest on the litter.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Your post was probably erased because you have to pay to advertise dogs for sale on the forum. 

Looks like a fun place to take a pup for some obstacle play, happy little dude.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Gotcha Kadi but he is really not for sale for now, unless you ask my wife LOL.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

VERY nice pup Tim :smile: Glad to hear that the wife has good taste, at least in pups :razz:

Call name: Sun or Zoo without the $$$$$$ ?!?!? LOL Keep those vids coming...really enjoyed watching all the environmental stuff you exposed him to. And yep those tubes were fun!!


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

*Re: &&&& 9 week puppy named sun tzu &&&&&&&*

Oh no you didn't!!!![-X My wife really got lucky:---)
The money sign probably wasn't the brightest idea if I'm not selling him right yet.
I'm going w/ the full Sun Tzu. 2 syllables, I only clapped my hands twice. #-o 
We will drop the bling $$$$$$$$ symbol on his name.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Looks good Tim. I love coming up with new things for my puppies to see and figure out.
Just keep him and work with him everyday till he is 14 months for me, then i will buy him.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Looks good Tim. I love coming up with new things for my puppies to see and figure out.
> Just keep him and work with him everyday till he is 14 months for me, then i will buy him.


I might hold you to that if he grows into something worthy.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Dont worry Tim.....I will say this public on the forum full of witnesses. I WILL BUY HIM WHEN HE IS OLD ENOUGH IF HE WILL PASS OUR SELECTION TEST.
In fact that goes for everyone who has a good dog on the forum.
*must be between 12-30 months old
*must have very solid environmental nerves.....(gun fire, open stairs, large crowds of people, traffic, must go freely under running diesle vehicles, jump freely in the back of a truck, slippery floors, inside of loud industrial buildings, conveyer belts, etc)
*must have excellent hunt drive
*must retreive iron, rubber hose, rolled towel, wood, PVC
*must have very intense tug / play drive to fight with the object
*must have excellent health (back, hips, elbows,teeth and bloodwork)
*must be EXTREMELY possesive (willing to carry and play with every object for several mintues without walking away from it with no human interaction at all)


Dual purpose dogs must posess all of the above with the addition of the following:
*Strong desire to pursue and bite bite a decoy in a suit and sleeve with a full hard grip
*strong desire to fight with the man in a civil manner when challenged by a decoy in street clothes
*must actively hunt for a decoy in the woods and in a building
*must have a desire to engage in combat and remain in the fight while wearing a muzzle

Sounds easy enough I know......it must sound easy because I get people who call me every week telling me that their dogs will do these things with no trouble.
Believe me, i would rather not have to import these dogs from Europe, i would love for people to sell them to me here in the USA. 
I will pay a very fair price for a good dog.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

mike suttle said:


> *must be between 12-30 months old
> *must have very solid environmental nerves.....(gun fire, open stairs, large crowds of people, traffic, must go freely under running diesle vehicles, jump freely in the back of a truck, slippery floors, inside of loud industrial buildings, conveyer belts, etc)
> *must have excellent hunt drive
> *must retreive iron, rubber hose, rolled towel, wood, PVC
> ...


Except for the money,why would anyone sell a dog that fits those descriptions ?


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Mike, out of curiosity, what % of pups that you breed pass this selection test?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Except for the money,why would anyone sell a dog that fits those descriptions ?


No reason at all.........EXCEPT FOR THE MONEY!
many people keep dogs back and prepare them until they are around that age and sell them for the money.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Anna Kasho said:


> Mike, out of curiosity, what % of pups that you breed pass this selection test?


what % of puppies from the litter in total I could not tell you because I sell most of the puppies at 8 weeks old and I never get a chance to test them later.
The % of puppies that I keep back here and prepare for this selection test is about 70% for single purpose and 50% dual purpose.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> Dont worry Tim.....I will say this public on the forum full of witnesses. I WILL BUY HIM WHEN HE IS OLD ENOUGH IF HE WILL PASS OUR SELECTION TEST.
> In fact that goes for everyone who has a good dog on the forum.
> *must be between 12-30 months old
> *must have very solid environmental nerves.....(gun fire, open stairs, large crowds of people, traffic, must go freely under running diesle vehicles, jump freely in the back of a truck, slippery floors, inside of loud industrial buildings, conveyer belts, etc)
> ...



He already would pass some things slippery floors, open stairs, large crowds(had him at the carnival;-)) traffic, he will bite any of the retrieve items already. Except he eats iron and shits nails, runs under diesel truck's to snort ants. J/J
I'd say that test is pretty fair. Just wondering why he would have to retrieve iron and if he did everything but that? Would you cut him?
He is very civil on me and I'm thinking of muzzling his little ass.LOL
No promises for sure as you know.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> He already would pass some things slippery floors, open stairs, large crowds(had him at the carnival;-)) traffic, he will bite any of the retrieve items already. Except he eats iron and shits nails, runs under diesel truck's to snort ants. J/J
> I'd say that test is pretty fair. Just wondering why he would have to retrieve iron and if he did everything but that? Would you cut him?
> He is very civil on me and I'm thinking of muzzling his little ass.LOL
> No promises for sure as you know.


I would not rule him out if he did not retreive iron, but normally if a dog has the intensity and the possesiveness that I look for they will retreive iron with no problem. Three of the contracts that I have require iron retrievers, so it is something that I do put a lot of value on.
I get a lot of grief from people about my requirement for iron retrievers, but that is something that I really prefer in a dog. 

Sorry Tim, I did not mean to hijack your thread. I was just saying your puppy looks nice and when you are ready to sell him as an adult keep me in mind.:wink:


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

you didn't hijack anything.
What about water? Swimming and apprehension in water. Well maybe not apprehension in water but he'd have to swim right?
Also a dog that is possessive usually doesn't want to bring things back, is that correct?
So a good portion of this is good training, and a good dog of coarse.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Nice puppy!!!!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> you didn't hijack anything.
> What about water? Swimming and apprehension in water. Well maybe not apprehension in water but he'd have to swim right?
> Also a dog that is possessive usually doesn't want to bring things back, is that correct?
> So a good portion of this is good training, and a good dog of coarse.


When I say "retrieve" I mean going forward with super intensity and crashing into the object with everything he has......many good dogs will not actually bring it back, it makes no difference if he brings it back to me for a fight or if he goes off and tries to eat it. What matters is that he does not leave it and he fights to keep it and stay with it at all costs.
Water is not really an issue. I would prefer the dog to have no problem in water, but I dont test in water. I tell everyone never to deploy a K-9 for a water apprehension.
Most of these things are a matter of proper exposure and preparation. Some of the things can not be trained for however, either the dog has it or he does not.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks James. He was the runt and definitely not my first pick out of 8 males


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> When I say "retrieve" I mean going forward with super intensity and crashing into the object with everything he has......many good dogs will not actually bring it back, it makes no difference if he brings it back to me for a fight or if he goes off and tries to eat it. What matters is that he does not leave it and he fights to keep it and stay with it at all costs.
> Water is not really an issue. I would prefer the dog to have no problem in water, but I dont test in water. I tell everyone never to deploy a K-9 for a water apprehension.
> Most of these things are a matter of proper exposure and preparation. Some of the things can not be trained for however, either the dog has it or he does not.



That is a good post!!!!! especially the last 2 sentences!
That's why I asked about the retrieving because he will go after anything you throw but he does not want to bring it to you. He runs right off to the side with his tail hi, see ya MFer it;s mine now!!!


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Many of my puppies and young adults do the same thing, that is not a problem at all. As long as they will stay with it, and hunt like hell to find it when you hide it from them.
Of all of the things that I listed the two most important key things are environmantal nerves and insane possesiveness. Of course the health is a given, but that is black and white.
If a dog has the type of nerves that I like and the level of possesiveness that i like then he will probably do everything else with a little preparation and exposure.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

What reaction do you expect or like to see in a puppy around traffic for the first time?
What is the most common reaction?


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Hi Timothy,
Nice Mal pup you have with you. See the envious sign coming from me. lol. Saw your vid, awesome. Check with you, did you separate out the session from the vid shot ? How long was for each session or exposure of new environment ? Cheers.

Colin


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Yeah Colin thanks.
The inside building stuff was all one but it was pretty short. I went from one thing to the next so the only parts that are deleted are walking to and fro. The outside stuff was separated by driving and biting was much later in the day.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> What reaction do you expect or like to see in a puppy around traffic for the first time?
> What is the most common reaction?


Of course the reaction that I like to see is a puppy who is 100% unaffected by traffic. Sometimes I see puppies who are a little worried about large trucks passing close to them at first, but if they are exposed to this early they normally have no trouble with it. 
For me when I show a baby puppy something for the first time I am fair and realistic about my expectations. As long as the dog recovers quickly after being startled and after a few time being exposed to the same thing it no longer bothers him then I am ok with it. For example I have a puppy here now who is actually 100% solid with traffic and always has been (he was walked along the interstate a few weeks ago right on the white line with semi trucks passing us at 80 MPH within a few feet of us and he did not even notice them). However that same puppy who has been exposed to a shit load of new people by his age (at the time he was about 12 weeks old) and he has never once acted strange around new people, but last week I had him out at a large horse farm and we were walking through the stables, he was fine with the horses, but a young girl (about 18) popped around the corner of the barn and he went nuts, barking, growling, hitting the forward end of the leash like an idiot. it took him only about 5 seconds to recover and the girl was able to come up and pet him, but this behavior worried me. I have not seen it before or after that day. He is rock solid in everything I show him, but for some reason that one girl worried him enough to challenge her????? Puppies are wierd at times.....even the great ones.
If he had panicked and tried to run from her then I would have likely gave him to her (she though he was "cute") LOL. I will keep a very close eye on this "aggression" (driven by something else at this age for sure) and I hope it never shows itself again.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

It sounds like he was just startled but he recovered so....
One forgets when he doesn't have a puppy for a while so it's nice to hear your thoughts since you deal with them on a regular basis.


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