# Help...hives



## Joe Agustin (Jan 15, 2013)

this is not my work dog, but its my 5 year old english lab, chocolate in color. About once a year, maybe twice he gets a nasty rash, Usually around the neck or on his rear. I have never been able to pinpoint what it was, and figured "ah hot spot". Only one before was it bad enough to be treated by vet. Well...a friend brought their dog over the other day, whose been on a farm for a few days previous and we believe it picked up some fleas. My dog is on flea and tick prevention, but about a day after the guest left my dog started itching like crazy and getting bumps all over. Little bumps but def there. There were bad around his neck to where he scratched and made it nasty. We went to vet this morning and he is a great vet. Same one who sees my patrol dog. He said its hives.....gave a cortizone shot and some antibiotics and other meds. I feel so bad for gunner, he hides under the bed. His whole body is covered in lil bumps and his neck is horrible. We got it treated now, but is there anything else to do. I have sprayed my yard with bug sprays and such. The fleas dont stay on him, just bite then die and fall off. I was thinking about some bat boxes and bird boxes. Anyone have any advice?


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

I would have tried Benadryl before a shot JMO! Have you found flea dirt or seen fleas, they're usually not on the dog. Could it be stress related with location/situation changes? Consider if any changes occurred any other time. Also some of the flea products again be very allergenic.....Makes you want to scratch seeing it #-o


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Joe Agustin said:


> this is not my work dog, but its my 5 year old english lab, chocolate in color. About once a year, maybe twice he gets a nasty rash, Usually around the neck or on his rear. I have never been able to pinpoint what it was, and figured "ah hot spot". Only one before was it bad enough to be treated by vet. Well...a friend brought their dog over the other day, whose been on a farm for a few days previous and we believe it picked up some fleas. My dog is on flea and tick prevention, but about a day after the guest left my dog started itching like crazy and getting bumps all over. Little bumps but def there. There were bad around his neck to where he scratched and made it nasty. We went to vet this morning and he is a great vet. Same one who sees my patrol dog. He said its hives.....gave a cortizone shot and some antibiotics and other meds. I feel so bad for gunner, he hides under the bed. His whole body is covered in lil bumps and his neck is horrible. We got it treated now, but is there anything else to do. I have sprayed my yard with bug sprays and such. The fleas dont stay on him, just bite then die and fall off. I was thinking about some bat boxes and bird boxes. Anyone have any advice?



With some sensitive dogs all it takes is one flea bite. 
If your thinking about bat boxes and bird boxes I would want to know how long it takes for the ground you sprayed to brake the stuff down or leach out. Hopefully info on the bottle.


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## Joe Agustin (Jan 15, 2013)

Steve Estrada said:


> I would have tried Benadryl before a shot JMO! Have you found flea dirt or seen fleas, they're usually not on the dog. Could it be stress related with location/situation changes? Consider if any changes occurred any other time. Also some of the flea products again be very allergenic.....Makes you want to scratch seeing it #-o


I gave benadryl for 2 days, 1mg per pound. They seemed to help a little bit, but im telling you, from head to rear, under belly, everywhere he had bumps. You couldnt touch him without him tensing up, I reckon in can only compare it to having poison ive everywhere. He scratched his neck pretty raw itching so yes, we had to go to vet. Cortisone shot worked great, Almost all the bumps are gone. Some still on flanks and def some still on top of head. Hes on advantix. Same as my work dog. What do you mean flea dirt ? No i have not seen any fleas, but he doesnt have to have them, just get bitten by one. No stress, hes got a dogs life. Hes been in this house since he was 10 weeks old.


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## Joe Agustin (Jan 15, 2013)

Bob Scott said:


> With some sensitive dogs all it takes is one flea bite.
> If your thinking about bat boxes and bird boxes I would want to know how long it takes for the ground you sprayed to brake the stuff down or leach out. Hopefully info on the bottle.


I just did some research and the only animal that will eat a flea is a monkey after grooming itself and some chickens. haha, unfortunately im unable to own either being in the city.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

if your vet called it hives he's talking to you in baby talk 
,,,here's a shotgun approach without knowing details 

- if it wasn't severe enuff to cause respiratory probs, a shot IS overkill, regardless if it "works", and should be used only after antihistamines like diphenhydramine (sp?) fail to resolve it 
- in 99% of the cases, it's allergen based and it takes a lot of time and money to isolate the allergen, and since it's also related to how strong the immune system is genetically, probably a waste of money to go to a specialist to find out what the dog is reacting to, since it will happen again

get some benadryl to have on hand in the correct dosage and without "human" additives, give it asap and FOR SURE wipe the dog down WELL when it starts to break out to at least remove as much of any allergen as you can

- neck area ?? the collar has been thoroughly cleaned, right ? or switch to biothane, since that won't absorb ANYTHING and is easier to keep clean, etc 
- rump area ?? be sure it isn't related to something different, like anal sacs filling up and not purged naturally... good hard craps are good this way ... frequent soft ones aren't :-(
- but a few chicken necks for a couple days will help with that in a heartbeat and give him a good "butt workout"
- if you don't feed raw, you might wanna eliminate the grains out of the kibble mix and go to one that has a higher meat percentage, but since it is only annually, doubt it's food based

and since you said it's annual, i doubt the other dog brought it over, but regardless, mites are on most every dog and cat and many other critters that might cross your yard 
(and on humans too... if you crank up the magnification enuff  ... most dogs with healthy immune systems get no allergic reactions from them; just a few scratches here or there 
...and "annual" sounds like "seasonal" ... like grasses, pollens etc; so check the environmental changes that happen when the rash shows up

fwiw, hot spots DON'T stay small and get real nasty real fast .. doubt it was that

anyway, good luck


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## Lisa Brazeau (May 6, 2010)

If benadryl is not getting the job done, you can cough up the dough to have him allergen tested. Once you know what his triggers are, you can proactively medicate when you suspect there might be an exposure. It's easier to stop a reaction than to put the fire out once it's started. That's my 2 cents but the testing will cost you a whole lot more.

"Show me a correction....." That's twistedly funny.


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## Steve Estrada (Mar 6, 2011)

Flea dirt is usually seen in groin area (near his equipment: guy talk) looks like fly specks usually brown. FYI


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Joe Agustin said:


> I just did some research and the only animal that will eat a flea is a monkey after grooming itself and some chickens. haha, unfortunately im unable to own either being in the city.


It should have said "intentionally" eat a flea! The transfer of tape worm via the swallowed flea is as common as.......well.. fleas on a dog! ;-)

To follow up on what Steve E said about flea dirt.
Scrape a bit off on a white napkin and put a drop of water on the "dirt". It will turn red if it's flea dirt. It's the dog's blood that has passed through the flea.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Joe Agustin said:


> this is not my work dog, but its my 5 year old english lab, chocolate in color. About once a year, maybe twice he gets a nasty rash, Usually around the neck or on his rear. I have never been able to pinpoint what it was, and figured "ah hot spot". Only one before was it bad enough to be treated by vet. Well...a friend brought their dog over the other day, whose been on a farm for a few days previous and we believe it picked up some fleas. My dog is on flea and tick prevention, but about a day after the guest left my dog started itching like crazy and getting bumps all over. Little bumps but def there. There were bad around his neck to where he scratched and made it nasty. We went to vet this morning and he is a great vet. Same one who sees my patrol dog. He said its hives.....gave a cortizone shot and some antibiotics and other meds. I feel so bad for gunner, he hides under the bed. His whole body is covered in lil bumps and his neck is horrible. We got it treated now, but is there anything else to do. I have sprayed my yard with bug sprays and such. The fleas dont stay on him, just bite then die and fall off. I was thinking about some bat boxes and bird boxes. Anyone have any advice?


Someone mentioned flea med reactions: _Does_ this happen right after applying flea preventive?



What has been done to diagnose this?

Scrapings? 

White sheet test for fleas?

Pred injections is indeed overkill if that's all that's being done. 

And I'd be doing a white sheet test myself. 

I agree that "he has hives" is saying nothing. OTOH, derm is a specialty for a reason, and GP vets are not derm vets.

BTW, a derm vet can save a ton of money in the long run, in my strong opinion. Intradermal testing is not all they do. Allergic-dog owners can throw money down the GP vet hole for years when one derm-vet visit and a follow-up is sometimes all that's needed. 


Allergies:

Flea-bite dermatitis (or flea hypersensitivity ... many names) is the number one dog allergy. 

Inhalant/environmental (atopy) is number two.

Food (and drugs) is a distant (far distant, at less than 10% of canine allergies) third. (However, a true IgE response is an immune response, and I agree that a great diet is a strong immune-system support.)



Remember that whereas we have most of our histamine receptors in our mucus membranes, with dogs, it's in the skin. Hence the miserable itching.

Regardless of whether the reaction is the immediate type that happens right away and usually produces hives, or the more common kind that takes longer and produces intense itching without hives, I'd want to be doing some diagnostic steps.

Can you pinpoint the exact body geography of the attacks' beginnings? When you say butt area, do you mean base of tail? Any front-of-back-shin involvement? Along the backbone?


No face stuff, right (rubbing face on carpets, etc.)?

Any ear infections? How often? What was the cytology: yeast? bacteria?

How do the insides of the ears look right now? Clear or inflamed? Any detritus in there? (Use a flashlight.)




BTW, dogs swallow fleas all the time, as Bob said. They bite at them, or chew or lick at the spot as they are being bitten, and they very often swallow them. It is, as he also mentioned, a *major *tapeworm route.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Someone mentioned flea med reactions: _Does_ this happen right after applying flea preventive?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hey Connie. What is the significance of the location(s) of onset or current irritation/inflammation/rash/hives? What does this signify? Thanks for your response(s).


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Zakia Days said:


> Hey Connie. What is the significance of the location(s) of onset or current irritation/inflammation/rash/hives? What does this signify? Thanks for your response(s).



Body geography varies (with a lot of overlap, unfortunately) with the trigger.

Example: If I saw that the worst problem points were consistently centered around the base of the tail, I'd immediately start to think about fleas. I'd start to also watch the backbone and the shins of the back legs, the abdomen, and the "shady" areas. 

The base of the tail is so classic that it's my first search area and I brush there thoroughly when doing the white sheet test.

Sarcoptic mange might start with the face, ears, elbows, and legs.

And so on ......


The challenge is that the body geography is _just one clue _(and again, there is big overlap; for example, paws can be involved with atopy _and _food _and _flea allergy [and certainly yeast, which again can be triggered by any kind of allergy, among other conditions]).

So body geography is no more than a clue. When I get that clue, I then have a bunch more questions (or observations) to see if it's substantiated.




I'm not a health professional. Canine allergies and canine nutrition are my two major research/study areas.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Took this post over here:
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f25/beef-allergy-25737/#post369872


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## Joe Agustin (Jan 15, 2013)

rick smith said:


> if your vet called it hives he's talking to you in baby talk
> ,,,here's a shotgun approach without knowing details
> 
> - if it wasn't severe enuff to cause respiratory probs, a shot IS overkill, regardless if it "works", and should be used only after antihistamines like diphenhydramine (sp?) fail to resolve it
> ...


 
He does not wear a collar at home. When he does wear a collar its most likely a choker.
As for the rump area, this time it was worse on top of the neck, size of the bottom of a soda can (looked like hott spot, oozy and pussy as well as , 2 quarter size spots on underside of neck). The rump had a lot of bumps on it and when i shaved it you could see were the bumps were scratched and bled....the rest of is body, sides, had tons of little bumps.

I didnt mean annual like welp its spring, get ready for gunners flare up....it only happens once or twice a year like this.

As for benedry, yes i give him benydryl, but this time around, benydry wasnt treating the scratches tat turned into infections and they were not easing is discomfort.

His diet is nutro. Once or twice a week when im cooking meat, ill feed im raw hamburger with steel cut oats and some raw green beans, or chicken breasts with raw oats, those two were just examples.

Yes i understand all dogs have mites, his skin was tested, he doesnt have the bad ones.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_Yes i understand all dogs have mites, his skin was tested, he doesnt have the bad ones._



If by "bad ones" you mean demodex, almost all (probably all) dogs have small numbers of demodex mites, too.

It's not the presence .... it's the number.




Does he ever have ear infections?


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## Joe Agustin (Jan 15, 2013)

Connie Sutherland said:


> _Yes i understand all dogs have mites, his skin was tested, he doesnt have the bad ones._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HE does get ear infections from time to time if i dont religiously stay ontop ofcleaning them. If i dont clean them twice a week or so they will get pretty dirty


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Joe Agustin said:


> HE does get ear infections from time to time if i dont religiously stay ontop ofcleaning them. If i dont clean them twice a week or so they will get pretty dirty


The cytology? Yeast? Yeast/bacteria combo?

How do the insides of the ears look right now? Any detritus in there? (Use a flashlight.) When they get infected, is the debris like black coffee-grounds, or what? 

Scrapings at vet? 

White sheet test for fleas at home?

No face stuff, right (rubbing face on carpets, etc.)? Ever, even aside from hive events?


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

I have experienced something very similar to what you describe with a previous jrt. It was a reaction to a wasp sting, the bumps went down gradually over a few days without treatment. It was pretty scary stuff watching the wee guy writhing around on the ground whilst all these lumps and bumps appeared all over his body. By time I got him to the vet, the worst had seemed to have passed so we didn't medicate him. A previous itching allergic reaction he had, the vet jabbed him with a steroid injection and the dog hid under the bed for about a week. I go very canny with steroids where I can.


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