# Tomorrow my Malinois is being evaluated



## Alex Moyer (Aug 16, 2014)

So Wednesday my friend and I are bring my 16mo Malinois to be evaluated to see if she'd be fit for a schutzhund class. I'm fairly confident she is quite capable; but what should I expect? I'm really looking forward to it! I have loved the protection sports since I was 15 (I'm 25); but this is my first dog who would benefit and be good with the training. Casey loves playing with children and is able to calm down as to do that without concern; she's aloof towards people she doesn't know and other dogs. 

I love working with Casey, my female Malinois. With eye contact (well, eye to toy contact, we're working on eye contact) she heels on/off leash; "go" directs her to run straight away from me until I say down; "under" means walk between my legs, right means sit by my right site, left, sit by my left side. Heels means walk by my left while Walk means walk by my right (under means walk under) She can sit/stay, down/stay, stand/stay for a good bit of time, while i'm in sight or out of sight. I trained her not to obey anyone besides me (close friends, my mom also she obeys) but if anyone else tries to give her commands she is trained to bark at them and she does this.

She has no problem vigorously exercising for hours on end (if it's not above 75degrees and there's plenty of water). She will retrieve in the water and she will retrieve across a body of water. She knows jump up (jump and land on top), jump over (jump all the way over), and jump through (jump into the car, e.g.). 

She hits the fire hose tug I got on ebay like a 50lb mac truck from whatever distance. Her ball drive is through the roof. She is extremely persistent and first and foremost focused on doing whatever will please me. She is cautious, but never skittish; always confident around people. 

I've had a lot of fun with her the last 14.5 months!! Are these things I've described a fairly thorough basis to begin schutzhund work? My philosophy has been 1st build the dog's drive, 2nd instill a love for work, and 3rd let her be herself. Only the in last few months have I began insisting on precision in the exercises. 

Going forward obviously I am very interested in protection work; but also I'd like to work her herding instincts and tracking ability. Can someone tell me what's a quality classic book on the herding work? and a classic quality book on tracking training? Dog Training: A Manual by Konrad Most would be the book I'd recommend for protection training - are the books of this caliber on herding or tracking?

I'll share how our evaluation goes tomorrow; wish us luck!


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Good luck tomorrow!Probably what it all boils down to is to see if she is capable of doing manwork or not.
You can tell a lot by just letting her watch some other dog(s) doing bitework(agitation)The way she reacts will probably spell out the way she should be worked if she is suitable.
You can basicly teach a healthy dog anything you want but the courage to engage a decoy is either there or not.
If she likes playing tug with a stranger and you join a good club with a decoy who knows (his or her) job ,you are halfway there.
Easy as pie.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Sounds like an awesome dog! Should be cool


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Alex
re : your question...
i would agree with Jack
- it's prob a matter of will she bite or not in a SchH/IPO environment

HOW they evaluate, how long they spend with the dog, what kind of equip they will use, how much pressure they will put on the dog, etc etc 
- prob will depend on the skill level of those who are doing the "evaluating"

if it were me, i would research the club in advance and be comfortable they are competent and know in advance what methods they were going to use and why...in some detail 
- just my opinion of course but i wouldn't just hand over my dog to anyone for bitework evaluation....but i tend to be overly cautious when other people handle my dog 

i doubt you have the time, but you could prob take it to three clubs and you might get three diff "evals" //lol//

i would shoot a vid of the whole process and let the WDF pick it apart


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## Alex Moyer (Aug 16, 2014)

thanks for the replies!
I should clarify it isn't a club; it's a private trainer - South Jersey K9 Solutions;
makes a lot of sense what you are saying, jack and rick. all her training is great, but will she engage the agitator? my guess is yes, but I have no experience with protection work. She is bred for this type of work, and I certainly haven't neglected building her prey drives. She has never shown timidity towards people. I really hope these people are competent!

The nearest club to me is about 45 minutes away; maybe I'll call them but last winter, when there was like 2 inchs of snow on the ground and they said they weren't training because of the weather. sounded kinda pathetic so I put that on the bottom of my to do list.

I don't feel comfortable videoing it, but I have a good memory and i'll be sure to explain what all went down!


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## Alex Moyer (Aug 16, 2014)

also, thanks Matt, she is an awesome dog!!
my first shepherd-type dog and I would never have imagined what incredible animals they really are.

casey is a miracle for me, and has convinced me that I should do a career working with dogs


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## John Wolf (Dec 12, 2009)

Good luck, there are many variables as to whether she can excel in schutzhund. Most of them on the handler side of the leash. Just be a sponge and learn from those you see excelling. Good luck with your girl, hope she does great for you.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Herding in your area

http://www.apps.akc.org/apps/club_s...1&active_tab_col_A=1&fixed_tab=1&club_id=5605


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

i have a mal here who is now my USAR dog, he started out life being trained in bitework and i was working him as a security patrol dog... he excelled on the training field, loved the bite suit, and was happy and confident at work, until we encountered our first properly angry human, who was drunk, wanted to fight, and had no equipment... my poor dog was just like "whoa! this is NOT what i signed up for!" and while he barked and leapt about the place like a fool, he would not engage the angry bloke... it's just lucky i was able to deal with the guy myself without anyone getting hurt, and when the cops finally arrived he was so drunk he tried to tell them i'd stolen his dog... lol >_<

but the point i'm trying to make is that *some* dogs will have a great time playing a game of tug of war with a helper, and still be the biggest lovebugs, who won't actually protect their handler in a sh!tfight (although a lot of the time having a dog bark on command is enough to scare off most would-be assailants), and there is zero risk of them trying to start a fight with a human... 

so you *may* get lucky and have a dog that loves the game, if the trainer is good enough to keep her in prey drive, which it sounds like she has plenty of... but in your position i would do my best to keep a good degree of equipment focus, the game is on only when the decoy has a sleeve or big tug... that way you're less likely to find your service dog wanting to have a game of chompy-times when she is meant to be performing other tasks instead!

i personally don't see a problem with service dogs being taught grip work purely in prey as a fun game, and taking part in SPORTS... actual civil protection work where the dog is put into a degree of defence and encouraged to fight the man and not just play tug-o-war, is a whooooole 'nother kettle of fish...


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Jay Quinn said:


> i have a mal here who is now my USAR dog, he started out life being trained in bitework and i was working him as a security patrol dog... he excelled on the training field, loved the bite suit, and was happy and confident at work, until we encountered our first properly angry human, who was drunk, wanted to fight, and had no equipment... my poor dog was just like "whoa! this is NOT what i signed up for!" and while he barked and leapt about the place like a fool, he would not engage the angry bloke... it's just lucky i was able to deal with the guy myself without anyone getting hurt, and when the cops finally arrived he was so drunk he tried to tell them i'd stolen his dog... lol >_<
> 
> but the point i'm trying to make is that *some* dogs will have a great time playing a game of tug of war with a helper, and still be the biggest lovebugs, who won't actually protect their handler in a sh!tfight (although a lot of the time having a dog bark on command is enough to scare off most would-be assailants), and there is zero risk of them trying to start a fight with a human...
> 
> ...


I would question what training you did "beyond the bite-suit" to prepare your dog to fight man. Remember, it's not natural for a dog to do so. Fight must be developed in the dog.


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

Matthew Grubb said:


> I would question what training you did "beyond the bite-suit" to prepare your dog to fight man. Remember, it's not natural for a dog to do so. Fight must be developed in the dog.


i have 3 others here who will happily engage a man with no equipment whlie in a muzzle, all 3 have fought strangers in anger at work, and their training has been almost exactly the same with mostly the same decoy... my USAR boy would never muzzle fight... i don't need to push him into something he isn't, because now i have the others who will do the job and he loves his search work... *shrug*


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Jay Quinn said:


> i have 3 others here who will happily engage a man with no equipment whlie in a muzzle, all 3 have fought strangers in anger at work, and their training has been almost exactly the same with mostly the same decoy... my USAR boy would never muzzle fight... i don't need to push him into something he isn't, because now i have the others who will do the job and he loves his search work... *shrug*


if he would never muzzle fight, why would you be employing him as a security patrol dog that was actually expected to engage?

and if he was not expected to engage then why put the dog in danger without proper training or testing?


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

Joby Becker said:


> if he would never muzzle fight, why would you be employing him as a security patrol dog that was actually expected to engage?
> 
> and if he was not expected to engage then why put the dog in danger without proper training or testing?


because at the time, he was the only dog i had... and most of the work we did was about detecting unauthorised visitors after hours, which he excelled at... everyone we found would either take off running, or were genuinely lost and confused and were therefore escorted off the property/premises with no need for aggression from the dog... then i changed companies and our job became more about crowd control and dealing with belligerent and aggressive people and as soon as i realised he wasn't up to the job and wasn't going to muzzle fight in anger i got another dog... 

anyways enough of the hijack, i'm wondering how Alex's dog went?


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## Alex Moyer (Aug 16, 2014)

she did very well! it was more informal than I expected but she was very intense, good bite, barking a lot at the person evaluating her, etc. only semi negative was that she chewed a little on the tug he was using to evaluate her; th evaluator said that would be fixed with two or three sessions. harry ramos (who evaluated her) actually offered to buy her. I was very proud of her


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## Jay Quinn (Apr 1, 2012)

glad you are happy with how she went! fingers crossed for you that she is everything you want her to be if you decide to take up SchH, and that her sporting activities don't clash with her assistance tasks... please keep us updated, i would love to hear news of her progress!


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