# Omega 3's and Prostate Cancer



## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I came across a few articles through a Corgi chat this morning. My dogs and I take fish oil every day. Only one has a prostate, and I'm not sure how this will affect our dogs, but it's worth reading. It goes against all prior studies and if verified, the increased risk is pretty huge.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130710183637.htm


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Huge? The difference of blood concentration between the high and low risk groups was 2.5%. That's pretty low. 

Perhaps I need to read the whole study but would like to know the actual percentage breakdown within the previously diagnosed group and the control group to find out how they are generating their larger percentage risks. Right off the top of my head I have the following questions:

What percentage of the control group developed cancer? 

*What was the intake of omega-3? The dosage level given and how often?*

How many of the control group developed cancer, how many were identified as at-risk for developing cancer based on family history or genes?

The largest risk was reported within the group that had already been diagnosed with prostate cancer. Within the cancer group what is the 'normal' risk of developing a high risk cancer (is there a low risk? Are there different types of prostate cancer - aggressive vs non-aggressive)?

Where these men also part of the SELECT study? Which showed an increase risk due to taking Vit E?


Long story short, I am not making any rush to judgement. Because if they were giving these guys mega doses - above the average dosing levels - then that's a problem. Oxygen is great, it keeps you alive but give yourself to much oxygen and it will kill you. Same with water. There is a balance. If you overwhelm the balance then, of course, you should expect to see problems.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

"Published July 11 in the online edition of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, the latest findings indicate that high concentrations of EPA, DPA and DHA -- the three anti-inflammatory and metabolically related fatty acids derived from fatty fish and fish-oil supplements -- are associated with a 71 percent increased risk of high-grade prostate cancer. The study also found a 44 percent increase in the risk of low-grade prostate cancer and an overall 43 percent increase in risk for all prostate cancers."

I considered that huge. 

Yes, there are different types of prostate cancers, some of which can even be left untreated and cause no ill effects for years. Most people die with this prostate cancer, not from it.

There are multiple types of many cancers, actually. Ie. the lymphomas.

It was generally thought that fish oil was beneficial to those with prostate cancer, and therefore this study is certainly cause for alarm. Jmo.


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## Kristi Molina (Oct 1, 2012)

Mega dosing fish oil took me from so depressed I had no will to live (not suicidal but not really anything.) to completely back to normal is less than 48 hours. I really hope this negative side effect is true. I believe it can do some pretty amazing things. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Eric Read (Aug 14, 2006)

I think this is more of a case of taking a previous study, rearranging the criteria and having fun with numbers. I'd have to read the original to have a better understanding, but I don't usually fall for spiced up media reviews of scientific lit. 

and even the tone of the article to me portrays a group of researchers with heavy bias to start. They didn't run a study or conduct any research, they took other studies that were looking at something else completely, then decided to change the criteria of that study and only look at certain parts of it. 

Regardless, there are plenty others out there besides the ones they looked at that show individuals with omega6/3 ratios that are too large do have increased risks for everything from cancer to Alzheimer's.

I'll continue taking mine daily without any worries.


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## Doug Wright 2 (Jul 24, 2011)

First words out of my Professors mouth on day one of Statistics class were "statistics lie - you can arrange them to support any argument". Its hard for me to get behind any numbers where I don t know how they were derived.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I'm not saying this is a know-all, end-all study. This is something to think about. Remember when they first started studies about the negative effects of spay/neuter? It was wildly controversial and people are still skeptical.

And rightly so. It's one study. Of course we take it with a grain of salt. But I thought it was something to be aware of. Medicine changes every day.

We're actually waiting to hear back from my step-Dad's oncologist to see what his opinion is.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Mostly I was attempting to discuss something other than dogs and/or humans getting shot, haha


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## Doug Wright 2 (Jul 24, 2011)

I thought it was a good post. I first learned of this study last night and intend to research it further. I think we are (as a society) way too psychologically dependent on supplements. Take vitamin C, your average dose equals eight oranges. Who really needs to eat that many oranges. Its not like we're all suffering from scurvy. Eat right, exercise, and live a healthy lifestyle. Do this and you'll live as long as you were meant to. JMO


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Doug Wright 2 said:


> I thought it was a good post. I first learned of this study last night and intend to research it further. I think we are (as a society) way too psychologically dependent on supplements. Take vitamin C, your average dose equals eight oranges. Who really needs to eat that many oranges. Its not like we're all suffering from scurvy. Eat right, exercise, and live a healthy lifestyle. Do this and you'll live as long as you were meant to. JMO


I couldn't agree more! Sounds like we're on the same page.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> I came across a few articles through a Corgi chat this morning. My dogs and I take fish oil every day. .... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130710183637.htm


I saw this last night. Very interesting. So far I've been unable to find and read the actual study. Does anyone have a link to it?


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I found the journal archives yesterday but didn't finish searching through it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"Eat right, exercise, and live a healthy lifestyle."_

Huge ditto.

One issue with long-chain Omega 3s, though, is that grain-fed slaughter animals are now a huge part of the modern diet in so many countries; this and some other factors have radically shifted the ingested EFAs (for dogs and humans) toward 6s and away from 3s. 

This is one of several factors, and it's a major one in this shift. (Farmed fish, the fish sustainability problem, the increased reliance on very 6-heavy poultry, etc. --- these are some of the other factors.)

We've talked many times here about 6s supporting inflammation-promoting hormones and 3s supporting the hormones that keep inflammation in check, and how inflammation is a huge component in so many (most, in fact) chronic ailments.

The pro-inflammatory effects of omega 6s are important, because inflammation is a necessary healing response -- but it's just as important that they be reined in and not allowed to run amok and trigger and support these diseases. (Think diabetes, arthritis, IBS/IBD, coronary heart disease, skin pruritis, some cancers, and many more.)

We now have few practicable means for getting these long-chain 3s into the diet. I use fish oil. I almost don't think of it as a supplement, it's so integral (and missing) a diet component ... but of course it is.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> I found the journal archives yesterday but didn't finish searching through it.



Oh, good! I'd like to read it.


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Hi Connie, 

If a dog is fed - daily - whole raw fish (mostly mackerel and sardines) do you still find it necessary to add fish oil?


Thanks again


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Hi Connie,
> 
> If a dog is fed - daily - whole raw fish (mostly mackerel and sardines) do you still find it necessary to add fish oil?
> 
> ...



No, this would be one of the relatively rare dogs who is ingesting long-chain 3s in the diet. (I would want land meat in there, too, but I think we may have talked and that half the diet is non-fish protein.)


JMO!


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## Tiago Fontes (Apr 17, 2011)

Yeah, one of the meals is whole fish...the other is land meat (beef, chicken, rabbit, turkey). 


Thanks again


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Tiago Fontes said:


> Yeah, one of the meals is whole fish...the other is land meat (beef, chicken, rabbit, turkey).


Oh, yes, I was almost sure that it was you I had the PM discussion with. :grin:

Yes, that would cover the long-chain Omega 3s.

Sending you a PM.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

My step-dad (who has prostate cancer, even after having his prostate removed) talked with his doctor and his cancer group of friends. So far no one is putting on the breaks for Omega-3's, but they do want to emphasize getting it naturally over supplements if possible.

It's been advised for a long time that the best diet for those with prostate cancer is a high Omega-3 Mediterranean diet. 

I'm not too concerned with dogs that get fish (mine do) or 100% salmon oil (not capsules). But I know many who give fish oil capsules.

Even I try to do things as naturally as possible, but I do take 1200mg daily of fish oil capsules and a multi-vitamin. I'm always a little concerned since supplements have zero regulation.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

There have long been questions about flaxseed oil and men (humans) with prostate cancer.

It remains up in the air, with one study seeming to cancel another, and with more than one theory about it: Is it the ALA? Or the lack of lignans in oil (the ground seeds, of course, retain their naturally occurring lignans).

It may be the oil without its lignans, since ground flaxseed has no association in any study I've read with increased prostate cancer risk. (JMO; I'm not a health professional.)

But whatever the flaxseed oil issue is, it has not been seen in male dogs ... only male humans.


We already know that the way humans and dogs process plant-based 3s (with dogs almost entirely lacking the conversion mechanism that can convert ALA to long-chain 3s in many humans, albeit inefficiently and unreliably).

I'd like to read the study in the O.P., partly to find out what the specific ratios were and so on, and partly to look for factors that may not be applicable to dogs.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"I'm not too concerned with dogs that get fish (mine do) or 100% salmon oil (not capsules). But I know many who give fish oil capsules."_

Do you mean fish oil caps with unnamed fish oil? (Some caps have the same salmon oil that the manufacturer sells as liquid.)


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> _"I'm not too concerned with dogs that get fish (mine do) or 100% salmon oil (not capsules). But I know many who give fish oil capsules."_
> 
> Do you mean fish oil caps with unnamed fish oil? (Some caps have the same salmon oil that the manufacturer sells as liquid.)


Just regular "fish oil" caps. Made from whatever fish you could find.

I'll search again for the April 2011 study.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> Just regular "fish oil" caps. Made from whatever fish you could find.
> 
> I'll search again for the April 2011 study.


Oh. I'd never buy or use oil from unnamed marine sources. I totally agree.

I'm thinking this comes in both liquid and caps, though .... so maybe the form isn't the issue as much as the content.

For me, if it's not from salmon (wild, of course) or the tiny fish that are both sustainable and free of heavy metals, I wouldn't buy it, liquid or caps.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> ... I'll search again for the April 2011 study.



Here is an abstract published in advance of the completion:

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/04/19/aje.kwr027.abstract






I just accessed the complete article from 07/10/13.

Bought it for one day; will check it out tonight.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Oh. I'd never buy or use oil from unnamed marine sources. I totally agree.
> 
> I'm thinking this comes in both liquid and caps, though .... so maybe the form isn't the issue as much as the content.
> 
> For me, if it's not from salmon (wild, of course) or the tiny fish that are both sustainable and free of heavy metals, I wouldn't buy it, liquid or caps.


Right! I'm eager to see if they study the source of the supplements as related to any adverse effects. I'm also weird about supplements in general because they are unregulated and I worry that even though it says it's metal free and from a certain fish, I wonder how much truth there is to it.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> I'm also weird about supplements in general because they are unregulated and I worry that even though it says it's metal free and from a certain fish, I wonder how much truth there is to it.


Yes, I am phobic about it. I pay the spendy price for a product that subscribes to the IFOS Program and is third-party tested. It's a good thing it's almost the only supplement I use and give, or I couldn't afford the "food" part of the food-supplement combo. :lol:


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Yes, I am phobic about it. I pay the spendy price for a product that subscribes to the IFOS Program and is third-party tested. It's a good thing it's almost the only supplement I use and give, or I couldn't afford the "food" part of the food-supplement combo. :lol:


Haha, yep!! I actually noticed I general improvement with my energy and a decrease in epileptic episodes from fish oil. So I take it. I do the same with Magnesium, actually. Off topic, but people who get debilitating migraines (ie. me) have been found to have lower levels of magnesium in their blood at the time of a migraine than usual. So I take magnesium twice a day, and it honestly has made a difference. Fish oil once a day. The multi-vitamin I try to do ever -other day.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Here is an abstract published in advance of the completion:
> 
> http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/04/19/aje.kwr027.abstract
> 
> ...


I forgot to say where it is:

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/07/09/jnci.djt174.full.pdf html

The abstract notes that the participants already had prostate cancer.

_"Case subjects were 834 men diagnosed with prostate cancer, of which 156 had high-grade cancer."_


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## Michael Bennett (Apr 19, 2011)

I saw this study. It is not enough to convince me to stop taking fish oil. The heart health benefits have been stated for a long time.

On a side note, scientific studies on supplements are like catching a bus. If this one isn't going where you want just don't hop on board. If you wait around a few more minutes one will come along that is heading the direction you want.


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## kristin tresidder (Oct 23, 2008)

in the past, i have used grizzly's salmon oil. going to their site tonight i saw that they're "out" of salmon oil, and instead are touting the benefits of the pollock oil. does anyone have any experience with that?

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/pollock_oil/index.html


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Interesting! I use Plato salmon oil... It's like a million bucks cheaper, haha.

I've had pollock. It was tasty. Not sure about the oil.


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