# Therapy dog certifications.



## Gregory S. Norton (Jan 17, 2010)

I have a friend who's son is In a wheelchair from a car accident. He will be going thru another of many surgeries and physical therapy after. His mother just purchased a small dog and they quickly bonded like nothing she's ever seen.
In order to minimize problems taking the dog with them,they would like to get him certified. Can anyone recommend anyone in the pocono ,PA area ?
Thanks.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

it's really great that he got a nice dog, and any good relationship is therapy for both the dog and the owner....
--- but certified for What ?

- i know some people want to get a dog "certified" so they can constantly be with their dog and that their dog can go places where "uncertified" dogs can't go, but unless the dog is performing a service that the owner can't do without an assistance dog (like a guide dog for the blind), i feel strongly they shouldn't make up some title and slap a vest on it just to give a dog unlimited access
- in fact i think this will become more of a problem with dogs for vets with PTSD.....no clear cut certifications for this type of therapy work, and every time a dog acts up with a vet they will get a worse reputation

to me it seems like more and more people are trying to make a new K9 certification :
"professional pet and companion"

- not what you wanted to hear, but that's my opinion anyway


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## David Winners (Apr 4, 2012)

A service dog, which is granted special privilege by the ADA, is very different than a therapy or emotional support animal. A service dog must perform tasks for the handler that the handler can not perform themself.


From: http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm


Q: What is a service animal?

A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.
Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. Guide dogs are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:
_ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.
_ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.
_ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.
A service animal is not a pet.


There is no national certifying agency for service dogs. If the handler and dog both meet the requirements, by law the dog is a service dog.

David Winners


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

David Winners said:


> A service dog, which is granted special privilege by the ADA, is very different than a therapy or emotional support animal. A service dog must perform tasks for the handler that the handler can not perform themself.
> 
> 
> From: http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm
> ...


here..any dog with a TDI that has a diabled owner of any kind is basically a "service" dog... no one can ask your disability under the ADA, as far as businesses and the like...and I think they have emotional assistance dogs now even for people with mental/emotional issues,,


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## David Winners (Apr 4, 2012)

Joby Becker said:


> here..any dog with a TDI that has a diabled owner of any kind is basically a "service" dog... no one can ask your disability under the ADA, as far as businesses and the like...and I think they have emotional assistance dogs now even for people with mental/emotional issues,,


What people sometimes get away with and what the laws state are often 2 different things. 

The requirement of the dog providing actions for the handler that the handler can not do themselves is a national requirement for a service dog. This can include distracting the handler through body pressure or mouthing to avoid anxiety in the case of an emotional support animal. Emotional assistance dogs, by function and not definition, can be service animals, but they have to do something besides just be there.

In short, not all emotional support animals are service dogs. I think anybody that would benefit from the aid of a service dog should have one. I also think that people passing off their poorly behaved, dirty, fat lab as a service animal by throwing an orange vest on it is a crime that should be punished. They make it far more difficult for the legitimate service dog handlers to utilize their dogs.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

my post was in regards to what the OP WROTE so far ](*,)
1. the title was an indication the OP knows the guy doesn't require a service dog
2. he wants to take the dog with him everywhere
3. no mention of the disability the dog needs to support

- crystal clear to me
- so don't pass GO

- hell, i would love to do the same with mine and so would a lot of other people whose well trained dog gives them comfort and makes them feel better when they are together....so what ??

i have also heard about the "don't ask what the dog is for law" ... makes for a giant loophole in an area that already lacks clear and consistent regulation

the worst part of it is for people who want to start a BUSINESS doing it by getting cheap pound puppies and "Certifying" them in their not for profit business, that probably keeps more than bread on the table ](*,)](*,)

and i have a LOT of compassion for PTSD victims, especially vets

and i have had more than one person show up for training with their dog wearing some kind of "service" related patched vest .... it comes off b4 i start :evil:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

You can't ask what the disability is but, as I believe, you can ask what behaviors the dog is trained in. I have no proof of that. Only what I've "heard".


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: what you can and can't ask 

my feeling is i can ask ANY question i feel like asking when i meet someone as long as it isn't gross. politely inquiring about a disability doesn't fall into that category. neither would expressing and interest in their dog. 
i certainly wouldn't walk up and say : "hey gimp, what do you need that dog for ?" ](*,)](*,)](*,)

- but if my conversation still bothers them and they don't want to talk, i'm fine with that too

- i guess it just depends on how many social skills you have and whether you have enuf dog sense to see how well it is trained. for anyone on this list, reading the dog should take less than a minute, but i could see how others would have no clue how to assess the dog, and probably one reason why accidents happen when all they can do is take what is sewn on a vest at face value ](*,)


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## David Winners (Apr 4, 2012)

From: http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.


David Winners


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

There are a bunch of new rules coming down about Emotional or Psychiatric Support Animals.

The best guidelines I can find are:

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/Part%20382-2008.pdf
and go to page 120

The other good site is 
http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/ESA-flying

Now these site predominately deal with traveling or flying with your ESA. What does not seem to be covered are situations such as restaurants, movie theaters, shopping malls, etc. I would think that the documentation you must have to fly with you would also need to present if you decide to frequent other establishments may apply. If there are such areas, I would check with the management BEFORE you take the dog there to address any concerns or other issues. There are way to many people now preying on the rules for ESA in order to travel with Snookums and avoid paying pet fees etc. 

The best advice I can give you as you travel or take your ESA with you is that *if* you run into problems with an establishment don't be all belligerent and obnoxious about it. You can attempt to address it with the manager but if not then certainly address it later out of the heat of the moment. Carry your documentations with you.
The biggest issues have come up with restaurants when the person takes a plate of food from the table and places it on the floor for the dog to eat too. Or allow it on the furniture or chairs. Be respectful of others who use the establishment too. Not everyone enjoys dogs, dog odor, or dog hair on them. Also consider how you will deal with it if the dog takes a hike and relieves himself on the carpeting or a clothing rack. 

Here are the rules for United Airlines:
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/specialneeds/disabilities/assistance_animals.aspx

http://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/travel/specialneeds/disabilities/Support_Animal_Form_6-11-13S_updated.pdf

United also clearly states that you must notify them no less than 48hrs prior to travel so that they can verify status of your ESA with your health care professional. If you don't or the status cannot be verified then regular pet rules and fees apply.

A little common sense and research can go a long way to avoiding problems or preventing problems from becoming major issues. And a well-behaved, polite ESA supports your position while a spoiled, un-trained, obnoxious one doesn't.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Gregory S. Norton said:


> I have a friend who's son is In a wheelchair from a car accident. He will be going thru another of many surgeries and physical therapy after. His mother just purchased a small dog and they quickly bonded like nothing she's ever seen.
> In order to minimize problems taking the dog with them,they would like to get him certified. Can anyone recommend anyone in the pocono ,PA area ?
> Thanks.


i have met dogs with nothing more than their CGCs who have made rounds as "Therapy Dogs" amongst retirement villages, preschools, and visiting areas of Children's hospitals. one was a massive Akita female who belonged to the main trainer at our All Breed club. all of these appearances were by request, scheduled in advance, etc. but the dogs did receive access to places denied to "regular" dogs. all they did was visit and give kisses, allow for lots of petting and sit quietly with people who didn't feel very good or who were trying to learn not to be afraid of dogs. i do feel that they provided a definite service to those people, but they did not push the envelope by trying to ride buses or enter restaurants, or anything like that.
maybe getting a CGC and insisting on manners for the little dog and granting a limited time of comfort proximity--in a wee travel suitcase-crate?--while all of the scary, ardurous medical treatment is in full swing would be an acceptable bending of the rules? i know legal precedents are a slippery slope, but if this is just to secure being allowed to bring the dog along on trips to the doctors/hospital, perhaps permission could be gotten from those in charge in advance? that would negate the sense that anyone is trying to get away with anything...


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Catherine
i hear you.
i've also taken my house dog to local hospitals and schools for the disabled. like you said, it was volunteer work and CAREFULLY planned in advance, but the only "certification" he has is as my house PET 

the OP needs to weigh in and explain if his friend wants to do volunteer work or if he just wants a "cert" that will allow him to take his dog anywhere with him, because that is all he has written so far. and he's asking where there is a place he can get it certified.

i don't know the laws where he lives but i do know the laws over here. we are still having problems getting public access for guide dogs ](*,)
...so whatever the liberal dog lovers in the states get passed, don't expect it to be recognized in this country 

"emotional support animals" ???? 
gimme a break ](*,)
- so how do you give a dog a certification exam to ensure it can safely provide emotional support ??
- but since it was defined as "animal", if my pet boa gives me emotional support can i fly with it too even tho it might freak out the passenger next to me ?? and does it have to wear a vest ?? can i bring my mouse in another box that it will need to eat ??

- "emotional support" is about as vague as it gets. my dog does that too and so should ANY good dog. does that mean they should get certified to fly in the passenger seat next to their owner ?
...that's not a slippery slope....it's a greased pole

it's bad enuff there isn't enuff standardization for PSD certifications and they have only been regulated for what, about 50 years ? that's already been discussed here ... lets keep the pets and emotional support animals out of it ](*,)

that's my rant for the day


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## David Winners (Apr 4, 2012)

rick smith said:


> Catherine
> i hear you.
> i've also taken my house dog to local hospitals and schools for the disabled. like you said, it was volunteer work and CAREFULLY planned in advance, but the only "certification" he has is as my house PET
> 
> ...


Your rant is pretty far out of context.

It was clearly stated that emotional support animals are not service animals. Therefore they do not have the same rights by law. They have no more rights than a pet does, nor do the majority of them do anything more than a pet does. There is no certification for emotional support animals because they have no real classification except in general terms, much like the term working dog.

counter rant over


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i am guilty of not reading the refs Sarah provided but this statement lead me to believe ESA's are NOT in the same category as pets :

"United also clearly states that you must notify them no less than 48hrs prior to travel so that they can verify status of your ESA with your health care professional. If you don't or the status cannot be verified then regular pet rules and fees apply."

it also implied that an ESA is verified by health professionals, not canine professionals which caused me to use the greased pole example 

imo the OP still needs to weigh in while the rest of us debate the definitions of service dogs vs ES dogs, 

.... but i still feel strongly ALL good dogs provide emotional support to their owner and all good owners provide emotional support to their dogs and no new laws need to be drawn up to give some more benefits than others 

- instead i think we we would all be better off focusing on more consistent training and certifications of service dogs for handlers who DO need them, like LE and blind people, etc

actually, even bad dogs give me emotional support, so i must be in the extreme minority //lol//


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I think it's a bit of a new category. Does ESAs serve a different function then the school program learning to read with dogs? Which is nothing more than a child reading to a dog? And many therapy dogs are nothing more than a well-behaved pet dog that is taken through the hospital for people to snuggle up to or pet. Where do you draw the line? And who gets to do the definition of what is or isn't a 'service' dog? Dogs are also serving through the Wounded Warrior type projects helping the PTSD folks get up and out of the house. Or move about again in society and serve not to assist by turning on lights or moving a wheelchair but by simply being there. 

I see nothing wrong with the OP's friend taking their dog to the hospital for procedures but it would need to be cleared with the departments involved and hospital administration. Something the OP needs to consider is that if the child is heavily reacting to whatever, the dog keys into this stress and could become overly protective (stop hurting my owner) or gets in the way trying to help alleviate what's causing the distress.


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## Jennifer Andress (Sep 4, 2013)

David Winners said:


> It was clearly stated that emotional support animals are not service animals. Therefore they do not have the same rights by law. They have no more rights than a pet does, nor do the majority of them do anything more than a pet does. There is no certification for emotional support animals because they have no real classification except in general terms, much like the term working dog.


ESAs do have two (and, as far as I'm aware, only two) big rights: (1) the owner can keep one ESA in housing even if it's supposed to be "pet free" housing; and (2) they can, subject to reasonable restrictions, ride with the owner in an airplane.

There's no certification but you do need a letter from a physician or psychiatrist verifying that the owner has a legitimate mental health need for the animal. The letter "expires" after a certain period (I think it's a year but I haven't double-checked this so I could be wrong).

And yeah, they don't actually have to do anything. Most of them can be (and are) just pets, although the ones I've known have been better-trained than the average pet at least. The focus for ESAs is more on the owner's mental health needs than the animal's ability to perform a service-related function.

Because the definitions are pretty loose and the requirements minimal, I think ESAs are where you see the biggest blurring of lines between what's "just a pet" and what animal is serving a necessary purpose, and where most people try to game the system (although the benefits are so limited that often I'm not sure why they bother, beyond not understanding that an ESA is not a service animal). But I've had enough clients with actual, verified psychiatric disabilities who derived real benefits from these animals that I'm certainly not going to pooh-pooh the entire idea as a fraud. There are people who genuinely would not be able to function in society or hold down jobs without their animals.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

still wish the OP would participate in the thread he started ](*,)

- i probably will never agree that a good pet should get more preferential treatment than another good pet and they do not need more access help their owners.

what no one has focused on :
- when you create a new category of dog you also create a new dog business and there will be no consistent way to verify these businesses are being conducted safely, nor will there be a way to verify training because there are no consistent standards..... ESPECIALLY when the dog get assigned to an owner and other businesses establishments are not allowed, also BY LAW, to verify the dog
- it's one thing to define what the dog is in legal terms, but that will not prevent people from taking advantage of the opportunity to sell dogs that will be difficult to verify later down the road. i feel certain there are already cases in the states where this type of business got out of control (poor training and too many dogs being kept). and this can happen even with someone who starts out with good intentions. they want to help more people, get more dogs and get more overextended......EVERYONE suffers ](*,)
- and you are dreaming if you think the humane societies and animal control will be able to monitor them effectively. that ain't gonna happen either, imo

- my position to be against creating a new category of dog is NOT to keep people from owning a dog that gives them emotional support. it is primarily because of what will happen as they get more popular and create more business opportunities that will be VERY hard to regulate. THAT is why i say it is a slippery slope

and i still say if we can't get more consistency in PSD certifications and training requirements, how can u expect it to happen with ESA's and other types of loosely regulated specialty dogs ? because you think they require less training ?

- all these types of dogs may be great in theory, but i am against it based on three main reasons :
1. Extremely difficult to effectively regulate the businesses who will do the training and certifying
2. how difficult it has already been to regulate professional working dogs that have already been working for many years
3. there are already enuff good pets doing this kind of work all over the world with ALL kinds of people (able and not so able), and they don't need any special certification to do it

i think the cons outweigh the pros. if you disagree, lets start a thread and include ALL sides of the issue because this has nothing to do with what the OP wrote when he posted this thread. 
1. he did NOT say his friend wanted a dog to do therapy work in hospitals or any other institution
2. he did NOT say his friend was an emotionally disturbed person who can't function without a specially trained dog

actually, to me it's a PERFECT example of why it is a bad idea :roll:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

there are various organizations that can "certify" a dog. As a therapy or Assistance dog.

What that certification actually means is variable, whether or not anyone outside of those orgs. requires any of those certifications is variable.

I think the state of certifying assistance and therapy dogs is probably comparable to certifying a protection dog, all over the place.

teach the dog to pick up something dropped from the wheelchair and hand it back to you...that is sufficient.

David. My friend used to take his dog with him everywhere. To prison visits, on planes, to church, to eat, to shop. whatever wherever. He was the victim of a stroke, left side paralysis. no arm or hand movement, very limited leg movement but somehow walks on his own by tosing his leg out the from the hip LOL...

I used to go with him to lots of places.. his dog was the subject of many altercations between him and business owners, patrons, and police officers. 

The ADA is something that most people know very little about, even most police. 

My friend stated his dog provided him with physical stability, or retrieving dropped items, ususally...

sometimes it was a "seizure alert dog"... I do not know any real way someone can ask you to verify that function. He has had seizures in his life but none while that dog was alive.

his dog would pick up stuff for him if he dropped it, but I never saw him drop anything and use the dog to pick it up while we were out.

He also told police one time that his dog provided security and protection for him, since he is unable to defend himself at all effectively, and that answer actually floated..

It was fascinating to me to see the various reactions to him and his dog from everyone involved. His dog was a pitbull/doberman cross, he always had a pinch collar on the dog, and many people reacted to the dogs appearance. I heard the weirdest things from people ranging from that dog is not a GSD, a lab etc...or "you aren't blind"...lol

one time the manager was chasing us through a store, trying to get his attention the guy was well behind us, yelling "excuse me sir, are you blind?" my friend without turning around says.."NO!, I'm DEAF!" and the guy didnt even get the irony of that response...

he told me he basically brought his dog with him because he could, and that he actually felt much safer with his dog around. He did use his dog in a protective role several times, including having dog bite someone, so I cant argue with him on that one..plus his dog was one of the coolest dogs Ive know, vicious alert on command, instant off switch, no grudges held... would bite anything or anyone on command, even trees and fenceposts. LOL....but was very social and superbly behaved. he also used the dog as a therapy dog many times at facilities for the disabled...no vests, placards, handles ect ever . a prong and a leash.

was he gaming the system with that dog??? I cant judge that. Would I do the same thing if I was him, most certainly.

What pisses me off these days is not fake assistance dogs, but people that are carrying thier little ankle biters everywhere with them..talk about a double standard, saw one the other day at the post office, an attractive lady carrying some little tiny dog in her arm, at the counter, I asked the clerk if I could bring my 80 lb pup in there too, of course the answer was NO DOGS ALLOWED.... LOL Menards, little dog in shopping cart, no problems LOL....



here is his son, a spitting image of him in appearance. 









here is little video of him at 9-10 yrs...
RIP. great dog, great protection and assistance dog 
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/446147/the_dino_dog/


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## Jennifer Andress (Sep 4, 2013)

rick smith said:


> - my position to be against creating a new category of dog is NOT to keep people from owning a dog that gives them emotional support. it is primarily because of what will happen as they get more popular and create more business opportunities that will be VERY hard to regulate. THAT is why i say it is a slippery slope
> 
> and i still say if we can't get more consistency in PSD certifications and training requirements, how can u expect it to happen with ESA's and other types of loosely regulated specialty dogs ? because you think they require less training ?


With regard to ESAs, it isn't creating a new category of _dog_. I think you're focusing on the wrong end of the equation here.

The dog doesn't matter. It doesn't even have to be a dog. It can be a cat or an iguana or a goldfish. What matters with an ESA is the human end of the leash.

In order to get an ESA you need to have a legitimate psychiatric disability that has been verified by a medical professional. If you are not mentally ill, you cannot have an ESA. If you are (and a medical professional thinks that the animal will help you cope with that illness), then you can.

The stigma against mental illness is still so great that I don't think a ton of people are going to rush out there and get themselves declared crazy so that they can have a dog in a pet-free apartment. I get a fair number of inquiries from people who are looking for ways to bring their pet dogs into restaurants (or whatever), and most often they ask about having their pet declared an ESA, but usually (not always, but _usually_) when they find out what it involves and how limited the benefits are, they either give up or try to do something else.

There definitely is a market for scam credentials and fake service paraphernalia, but not for ESA dogs themselves.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i think this point is also worth considering regarding the ESA dog category (forget the goldfishes and snakes)

i feel a person with a certified mental disorder might have problems being able to properly care and provide for a dog. 

so if they want to get one, and their MD agrees because it might help them cope better, what happens next ?
- will they have sole responsibility for the ESA dog ?
- who will ensure the person can properly care for the dog ? the MD ?
- will it be a one time check ? 
- what would prevent them from getting another if one was good ? 
- i there a limit on how many ESA's a person can own ?
- just because they feel the dog makes them feel better, how can one be sure the feeling is mutual for the dog ? who looks out for the dog ?
- i'm sure everyone knows about hoarders...they LOVE dogs too and their dogs are their whole life ](*,).... personally, i consider that as a mental disorder ](*,)
*what i'm getting at here is that maybe the best solution is to have a family member or caregiver get the dog and have primary responsibility and encourage the disabled person to interact on a frequent, hopefully dail basis

just like many of you, i have met MANY (sane) people who have dogs and love dogs but should probably never have gotten one. one big reason there are trainers out there 
- and many problems would never even have started if the owner had basic dog common sense. common sense is often distorted for people i have known with mental disabilities.
- i just don't happen to believe that a person with mental limitations should automatically be considered capable of ESA dog ownership and i see no way to check this from what i have read so far

just thought i'd run this up the WDF "flagpole" to see what others think


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

rick smith said:


> just thought i'd run this up the WDF "flagpole" to see what others think


I think you are beating a dead horse. ESAs are out there and have been for years. While you can disagree the fact remains that from a psychological standpoint they have been proven in the field to yield positive results and for little more than the cost of a dog and food make someone productive and have a somewhat normal quality of life. They reduce the amount of medications needed, restore a sense of purpose and self, and halve the difficulties because they have a partner to share it with and one that doesn't judge them. 

There are many folks with PTSD that have gotten themselves turned around simply for the fact of an ESA. As well as others that have suffered severe or profound psychological situations that impacted on their ADLs (Activity of Daily Living) but having a close companion animal have allowed them to take up somewhat normal lives again.


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## David Winners (Apr 4, 2012)

I know that in my own circumstances, I have far more PTSD related issues when I don't have a dog with me. I have been away from dogs now for almost 9 months and my symptoms have progressively gotten worse, to the point of going back on meds for sleeping. It will be interesting to see how things change when I get back home and have a dog with me again.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I believe those who have PTSD and have trained dogs will have the odds in their favor as to recovery/control of the issues.
More time interacting with the dog can be nothing but beneficial. :wink:


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## Noel Long (Mar 13, 2013)

I thank David for the info he provided. He seems very knowledgeable about laws regarding service dogs. OP, that family needs to read the ADA and visit Service Dog Central. 
 
Maybe that small dog can be trained to pick up dropped items and retrieve to hand. Is it tall enough? Then it needs the right environmental & social stability. Plus the handler and his mom need to be prepared for a lot of unwanted attention, questions, and intentional distraction/sabotage of the dog's training. The online certification places have no legal standing, are a waste of money, and enable the liars. 

I despise these fake service dogs, therapy dogs, and emotional support dogs illegally accessing public areas because it jeopardizes legit SDs. :evil: Believe you me, in our lifetime we'll see the law change, thankyouverymuch to the fakers. 

I can think of two toy breed SDs from other forums. Those dogs ARE task-trained yet rarely go out in public. The big dog is used in public settings.

Someone suggested crating the dog during medical procedures. There are hospital-specific rules for service dogs and, from what I've seen, do not permit SDs in those settings. This is different from photos or feel-good articles you've seen of therapy dogs laying in hospital beds.


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