# Training July 4th with my malinois female



## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Training July 4th with my malinois female.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaKAE2klhYY


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

interesting color on the dog. I like it!

Are you aware of all the body language you give? look at you hand at 1:52 that kind of stuff is all over the video. You can however, get away with head turns but you're not using them.

At 2:14 is your reward for the dog the game or the ball? 

In general, it looks like you're moving along a little faster than you should be. Slow down and work on some of those turns as a single event to tighten them up and your dog won't look so sloppy in the heeling.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> interesting color on the dog. I like it!
> 
> Are you aware of all the body language you give? look at you hand at 1:52 that kind of stuff is all over the video. You can however, get away with head turns but you're not using them.
> 
> ...


The title of the video is training but thanks for the pointers Chris. I'll try and brush up on it. Yes it was fast but that was the intent. Perhaps a over exaggeration for preparing for a event. So if I slow down, what do you suppose would happen?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> The title of the video is training but thanks for the pointers Chris. I'll try and brush up on it. Yes it was fast but that was the intent. Perhaps a over exaggeration for preparing for a event. So if I slow down, what do you suppose would happen?




I'm sorry, great looking video all clubs should have such a vidographer!!! \\/


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

We could use a guy like you!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Wow, that died out fast. I would like to see what she looks like at normal speed, or slower to see if she forges, or becomes distracted. I don't think it would happen, but fast movement on the handlers part tends to keep the dog focused.

Moving along slowly can show faults. Your dog has the same butt down posture that my dog has on the U turns anticipating the sit, and the butt does hit the deck a few times.

I am only replying as it is what I am seeing, and would rather hear someone point out the "few" flaws in the work. Obviously, I want to see you do real well. The good stuff is very obvious, and there is a lot of it. it is the small stuff that kills a nice performance.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Wow, that died out fast. I would like to see what she looks like at normal speed, or slower to see if she forges, or becomes distracted. I don't think it would happen, but fast movement on the handlers part tends to keep the dog focused.
> 
> Moving along slowly can show faults. Your dog has the same butt down posture that my dog has on the U turns anticipating the sit, and the butt does hit the deck a few times.
> 
> I am only replying as it is what I am seeing, and would rather hear someone point out the "few" flaws in the work. Obviously, I want to see you do real well. The good stuff is very obvious, and there is a lot of it. it is the small stuff that kills a nice performance.



It would take me a couple of weeks of preparation to do get her prepared but if there is no event in sight I'd just like to keep her excited about heeling.Her butt never hits the ground on the turns but I know what your saying.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> We coul use a guy like you\\/


i know [-o<

seriously though, what do you want? just people to tell you what you want to hear? Only to tell you positive things that don't need work? Like you said it's a training video. Sloppy training helps a dog practice mistakes that are more work for you to fix later on. Also a sloppy dog on the training field will look even worse on trial day. 

Here's my two cents as a musician, perfect practice makes perfect. With the people I play with, pretty good is not good enough. One of my good friends used record and tour with Sting. One day on tour the music director asked him to play something differently. He flubbed it on the show and was fired immediately after that song and was left in London. This guy was from New Zealand so he was a loooooooong way from home when he was left on the street but when you're getting paid $1000 per song and making sometimes as much as $10,000 per night you'd better have your shit together. 


Because of that story, I personally am a stickler for doing things right. I love it when people point out my mistakes because like with training a dog, the dog learns from mistake. When I practice music or train my dog, I don't move forward until it's correct. I always record my practice sessions and listen to them after. I don'twork on the next item until I have everything perfect otherwise I am only creating more work for myself.

I do pretty much the same thing with my dogs when I train. While away from the club I work on shaping behaviors in new things and building intensity in things they already know. I always have people watch me train (at the club) so I'm not using excessive body language and they can point out what I am doing wrong. They also point out other things so I'm not getting too complacent with my training or with the dog.

Anyway, I was just trying to help.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> i know [-o<
> 
> seriously though, what do you want? just people to tell you what you want to hear? Only to tell you positive things that don't need work? Like you said it's a training video. Sloppy training helps a dog practice mistakes that are more work for you to fix later on. Also a sloppy dog on the training field will look even worse on trial day.
> 
> ...



Are you telling me to drop the hammer. Point well taken and she can use less help and more training for sure.


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## David Blank (Jun 11, 2009)

you negative m.f.ers need to spend more time training and less time on the internet.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What is negative in what we are saying ?? The best way to improve your work in OB is to have someone watch it. The biggest problem with trainers today is they don't want to "offend".

Stop being a crybaby. it is all about getting those extra points.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Blank said:


> you negative m.f.ers need to spend more time training and less time on the internet.



You mean ignore the O.P.'s video, and not make comments like:
_
".... would rather hear someone point out the "few" flaws in the work. Obviously, I want to see you do real well. The good stuff is very obvious, and there is a lot of it." _


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Training July 4th with my malinois female.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaKAE2klhYY


Hey Tim,

Nice training ;-) Keep up the good work with Rico's Aunt Carna!! She looks like she's having a blast...she's certainly drivey. I would ask her for a little more perfection in heel position without killing her enthusiasm. A big "points killer' with Judge's. 

Enjoy!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Nice dog! You guys look like a good team. On your about turns, your arm swings out and your dog is cueing on this arm thing you do. I would try to keep better control of the arms. What I am doing, & what seems to work well for me and my dog with the IPO turn, is when you do the about, rather than turning around, spin further, another half or quarter turn, with a leash pop as a reminder if need be. This causes the dog to pivot better rather than cutting the turn. Good for you for putting yourself out there on video.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Blank said:


> you negative m.f.ers need to spend more time training and less time on the internet.


That's one hellofa negative first post. Read and learn before you start that crap!
The OP has taken it for what it is. Constructive criticism!


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

We talked after I put her away about the turns and I do need to slow down and I noticed a lot of the mistakes myself. I just changed her about turns recently. Instead of going around me I'm having her stay by my side. Training has been hit or miss lately but I'll see if I can straighten out some of the handler flaws and certainly slow down a little.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

FWIW I thought the "going around you" turn looked much smoother at a fast pace, but then I'm not picking up on all the little details like the pro's here...


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Nice Video!!! 

I laugh at the people giving advice on what "they" would do. "They" have not really proven thier training program is a solid one., but they seem to have advice for everyone. Dude do not sweat it...most of the fools on here who post regularly (including myself) could not do a better job than you already are.... Contrary to what some believe, I think that you will figure this shit out for yourself. You know one big distinction between the great ones, and us commoners....they do not spend much time on workingdogforum.com. So there is your first clue if they are good dog trainer.


Nice Dog. Nice training.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

James Downey said:


> Nice Video!!!
> 
> I laugh at the people giving advice on what "they" would do. "They" have not really proven thier training program is a solid one., but they seem to have advice for everyone. Dude do not sweat it...most of the fools on here who post regularly (including myself) could not do a better job than you already are.... Contrary to what some believe, I think that you will figure this shit out for yourself. You know one big distinction between the great ones, and us commoners....they do not spend much time on workingdogforum.com. So there is your first clue if they are good dog trainer.
> 
> ...


You're right James, the excessive body language isn't going to hurt him in trials....That dog is a model of perfection with a solid foundation. :---)


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The best way to improve your work in OB is to have someone watch it.


This is SO true. You can't watch for crooked sits or dog being out of position during heeling or about turns being a little off, by yourself because for example, if you start to look for that crooked sit, our damn dogs are too smart and begin to use that little twist of our heads as the cue, so it becomes an adjustment and handler help. Same thing with that arm swing, and all of what ends up being handler help. The ONLY way is to have someone watching, and if you don't have someone to watch and coach it becomes almost impossible by yourself. So video is a good second, but still harder than having a good coach or buddy. This is another reason why a good club is so important and why we need to practice OB at club not just protection.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 

I laugh at the people giving advice on what "they" would do

That is why you and your dog suck at Sch. Your sensitive little ass cannot take the fact that someone might be pointing out the little things, so you will always suck.

The "big" ones read this forum too. They are just smart enough not to post dumb shit like you continually do.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> You're right James, the excessive body language isn't going to hurt him in trials....That dog is a model of perfection with a solid foundation. :---)



For you I will get video of slow and normal with no body language. 
I saw a guy at a seminar that knew everything on the internet, a real real web forum know it all. Then he took his dog out of the car, holy s%&t.
I learn best through video so I'd love to see your dog doing methodical work. You have peaked my curiosity so let's see it! You have me on the edge of my seat!!!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> For you I will get video of slow and normal with no body language.
> I saw a guy at a seminar that knew everything on the internet, a real real web forum know it all. Then he took his dog out of the car, holy s%&t.
> I learn best through video so I'd love to see your dog doing methodical work. You have peaked my curiosity so let's see it! You have me on the edge of my seat!!!



I was poking at James more than you. You're doing a good job and I thought I would point out a couple of things you might not be aware of. I have a 10mo pup that's not even close to where your dog is. However because I don't have a dog that does it at the moment doesn't mean that my remarks are invalid. 

It's not like I'm sitting here and thinking, hmmm I don't know Timothy Stacy so let's **** with him for fun. If you don't get by now that me and others are trying to help you then you probably don't get it in general. I'm not here to compete with you and it doesn't matter who's dog is better because at the end of the day each of us lives with our dogs and we pick up their shit. I really don't care what you do with your dog. If you want to go slow or fast, that's up to you. It's YOUR dog. If you want help from people on this board then be quiet or ask questions and accept what makes sense to you. Challenging me or others isn't the point. If you want people to think you're dog is amazing then go do that stuff at Petsmart or post it on a pet dog board. I never said your dogs sucks and mine is better.... so don't go there.

If you don't want criticism then either post a video that say accolades and positive comments only or don't bother posting. Like Jeff said, you have a lot of good stuff going on but if you think you're not creating issues for the future then you are mistaken.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

A group hug should settle this one down.
Nice work by the way along with some good advice take it.
Can that Mali bite?


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

All points were sincerely valid and helpful but I was expecting more talk about the dog than me. I might be 20 lbs over weight but I was also expecting for more comments about my A** and man boobs too. LOL 

In the right hands this female would look a lot better for sure. She is really nice.

Anne the wrap around the back looked much better but got me in trouble sometimes in other areas. Just a personal preference now and I won't use it for myself anymore.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Nice work by the way along with some good advice
> 
> take it.



Nice wrapup. 

I guess I usually expect that folks who post videos are looking for suggestions as well as praise.

I know that I really appreciate the people who DO post their videos!  THANK YOU for doing so!


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## Barrie Kirkland (Nov 6, 2007)

i liked the video, nice attitude on your mali. good work fella


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It is YOUR dog so it is in the RIGHT hands. The only other thing I will say is that when you do your about turn, slow down a bit so the dog has a chance to do it right. Gotta remember she is the last guy on the wheel in a marching band, and if the inside guy doesn't have the right speed.........


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Amen to Jeff's last statement. Our TD constantly tells us to speed up on turns so the dog will have to hurry and catch up, I guess in an attempt to prevent forging, but if you sit back and watch all the dogs whose owners have taught that way, they (the dogs) nearly always swing wide and look hectic trying to get back into correct heel position.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> It is YOUR dog so it is in the RIGHT hands. The only other thing I will say is that when you do your about turn, slow down a bit so the dog has a chance to do it right. Gotta remember she is the last guy on the wheel in a marching band, and if the inside guy doesn't have the right speed.........



Well put and good analogy. I will do!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Practice your footwork on the field/anywhere "without" the dog. 
Come trial time you'll have a lot more confidence if your not having to think about your footwork AND wondering how the dog is doing.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> Practice your footwork on the field/anywhere "without" the dog.
> Come trial time you'll have a lot more confidence if your not having to think about your footwork AND wondering how the dog is doing.


LOL I do look a little drunk. I do notice myself thinking about the turns too much and how I'm going do them before they come up. Definitely something to think about!


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Timothy Stacy said:


> LOL I do look a little drunk. I do notice myself thinking about the turns too much and how I'm going do them before they come up. Definitely something to think about!


 
Ack! This is me! I've gotten hit with handler help for it. Really, I'm not trying to give help, it's more like I'm thinking too hard. If you figure out a solution, lemme know!


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## milder batmusen (Jun 1, 2009)

*Re: Training July 4th with my malinois felooks like male*

what a awesome dog 

but a grey malinois never heard of a grey mal sorry but looks like a mix with GSD and the mal


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Super video! Thanks for posting.

She has a lot of power, my back hurt just watching your helper take some of those bites. LOL

Love her attitude and heart. 
Julie


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Back to the thread.


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## vincent demaio (May 6, 2009)

Timothy Stacy said:


> Training July 4th with my malinois female.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaKAE2klhYY


very nice dog..good job


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## Eric Read (Aug 14, 2006)

Tim, I think if you check the following link and get some advice from there, It would help any future videos you appear in immensely. 

http://www.corsetiere.net/Spirella/Beforeafter/BAtext.htm


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Back to the thread.


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## Jason Caldwell (Dec 11, 2008)

Timothy,

Thanks for making the post and sharing your video. Nice to see a dog and handler in total sync.

I have to ask, is the dog's g'father or g'mother a shepherd? I've never seen a sable malinois, just fawn reds and light blacks. 

Fastest sitz from a platz I've ever seen. Looks like your k-9 has got hydraulics in those bones! Well done.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Eric Read said:


> Tim, I think if you check the following link and get some advice from there, It would help any future videos you appear in immensely.
> 
> http://www.corsetiere.net/Spirella/Beforeafter/BAtext.htm


 

Do think this will tighten up my turns too?


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## Eric Read (Aug 14, 2006)

not only will it "tighten" up your turns, it will also "lift" your spirits giving a more enthusiastic performance and seperate you from the competition 

Seriously though, nice video, you already acknowleged the parts you need to work on, and it was a training video, and a damn nice one at that. Like someone earlier said, lots of good stuff in there and the relationship between dog and handler is obvious. Good job.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Eric Read said:


> ... it will also "lift" your spirits giving a more enthusiastic performance and seperate you from the competition


Do you write the Enzyte commercials?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Eric Read said:


> .... Seriously though, nice video, you already acknowleged the parts you need to work on, and it was a training video, and a damn nice one at that. Like someone earlier said, lots of good stuff in there and the relationship between dog and handler is obvious. Good job.


More videos.


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## Timothy Stacy (Jan 29, 2009)

Eric Read said:


> not only will it "tighten" up your turns, it will also "lift" your spirits giving a more enthusiastic performance and seperate you from the competition


What can you say to that!


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## Eric Read (Aug 14, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Do you write the Enzyte commercials?


don't give me anymore ideas  I waste enough time at work the way it is


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