# Thinking of NOT RENEWING USCA membership (give me liberty...)



## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

With the end of the year approaching, I have several club memberships that need to be renewed. I thought USCA's membership was due one year from the date it was purchased, but for some reason my renewal date for next year is 1/1/2010.

Due to some of USCA's recent policy changes and actions, I am inclined to follow in Uwe Doose's foot steps to send a message that nobody tells David Feliciano what he can and can not do.

On the other hand, USCA has the best office staffs of any breed or performance club in the US. Not to mention that everybody knows they put on the biggest trials with the largest variety of concessions available at the snack bar.

As you can see, I am caught in a real pickle! Your thoughts...


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm staying for the merge with SV 2000


----------



## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Is the merger with SV 2000 confirmed?


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm staying with USA. I think more show than working folk will go with GSDCA-WDA. I think that a lot of the working folk that go will eventually come back when they realize GSDCA-WDA is more about the show side, many fewer trials than USA. Of course some are promising that will all change and WDA will suddenly be a true working dog organization, but I just don't think that's a very safe bet. Things might begin to look better in view of the fact that GSDCA-WDA is hosting the 2013 WUSV, (and still I doubt they will rival USA and AWDF with regards to schutzhund trials) but when the proverbial clock strikes 12 after that event they will turn back into a pumpkin because GSDCA will once again lose interest and jump back on their bandwagon of prohibiting any grip sports. 

I guess we will all have to wait and see what shakes out.


----------



## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> I'm staying with USA. I think more show than working folk will go with GSDCA-WDA. I think that a lot of the working folk that go will eventually come back when they realize GSDCA-WDA is more about the show side, many fewer trials than USA. Of course some are promising that will all change and WDA will suddenly be a true working dog organization, but I just don't think that's a very safe bet. Things might begin to look better in view of the fact that GSDCA-WDA is hosting the 2013 WUSV, (and still I doubt they will rival USA and AWDF with regards to schutzhund trials) but when the proverbial clock strikes 12 after that event they will turn back into a pumpkin because GSDCA will once again lose interest and jump back on their bandwagon of prohibiting any grip sports.
> 
> I guess we will all have to wait and see what shakes out.


With the new relationships formed between AKC, AWDF, and WDA I think it is WISHFUL THINKING to say people who leave are going to come back. 

This combined with the scorebook stamping fiasco is hurting USCA majorly. There is staring to become very little reason for people with alternative breeds to joing USCA, and more and more incentive for them to join their respective breed clubs. With the growth of these breed clubs, we will start to see plenty of other trial options. Put a fork in USCA


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> I'm staying with USA. I think more show than working folk will go with GSDCA-WDA. I think that a lot of the working folk that go will eventually come back when they realize GSDCA-WDA is more about the show side, many fewer trials than USA. Of course some are promising that will all change and WDA will suddenly be a true working dog organization, but I just don't think that's a very safe bet. Things might begin to look better in view of the fact that GSDCA-WDA is hosting the 2013 WUSV, (and still I doubt they will rival USA and AWDF with regards to schutzhund trials) but when the proverbial clock strikes 12 after that event they will turn back into a pumpkin because GSDCA will once again lose interest and jump back on their bandwagon of prohibiting any grip sports.
> 
> I guess we will all have to wait and see what shakes out.


I am staying with USA for the time being, basically for resources. And also since I am not GSD guy. I can without much ramification as of right now. But I think when we talk of AWDF and UScA, They are the same organization. AWDF is run by a overwhelming majority of UScA board members. The choice of judges selected by the AWDF for this coming years AWDF trial? Well let's just say there is no secrets in cincinnati on which breed club that favors. I think a lot of the other breed clubs in the AWDF are starting to get mildly irritated by UScA's actions. UScA will do some crazy shit. That directly makes life harder for smaller breed clubs in the AWDF and then states the AWDF needs to stay united. But UScA routinely makes decisions based on thier own interests, not the AWDF as a whole. AWDF will state we need uniformity and cohesion (which by the way is run by UScA...a club working in thier own interests), then UScA has a special stamp on the score book. Which at first I thought was nothing more than an annoyance. Then, came the ban of which clubs you can belong to. 

I am not sure, but with the closing of WDS by the AKC coupled with the acknowledgement/recording of working dog titles on AKC papers. I think this maybe in light of the spat that between WDA and UScA....Which if it is. GSDCA has all the power in the world to choke the life right out of UScA because they have the AKC. The direct link to the FCI (if not the FCI itself).

I think AWDF and UScA maybe in big trouble soon. If all the little breed clubs get mad enough, and they are the parent breed club for the AKC or have a solid good working relationship with the parent breed club. And they all leave the AWDF. UScA will be by themselves in the AWDF....Which is UScA (I think I mentioned that already). And I think UScA needs the rottweilers to keep them scared enough about how bad it really could be. And the Malinois Club to give them hope that thier dogs, one day too could be that great...I am just kidding on the last part. 

But I will be a good little sheep and follow where ever the sport goes. Because in the end, it's all about competeting my dog.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

David Feliciano said:


> Is the merger with SV 2000 confirmed?


:lol: I'm just playing


----------



## David Feliciano (Oct 31, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> :lol: I'm just playing


BWAHAHAHAHA You had me for a minute there


----------



## william mcneil (Nov 7, 2008)

Has any one heard of NWDA? http://www.nwdak9.com/Home.html


----------



## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

The downside will be for those UScA "certified" helpers...you gotta keep those membership dollars rolling in. Otherwise no playing in the pool :razz:


----------



## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

I got no horse in the race and I don't do good with politics. Staying with USA, just renewed the membership last month. I applied for WDA last year, but never went to any of their clubs to train and never visited any of their trials, so I guess I was a paper member for a year, that expired sometime in June of this year, I believe and I never bothered to renew.

How everything shakes out, remains to be seen. I wouldn't mind seeing Reiser's organization having a satelite presence here in USA outside of the "Fatherland".


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Adi Ibrahimbegovic said:


> I got no horse in the race and I don't do good with politics. Staying with USA, just renewed the membership last month. I applied for WDA last year, but never went to any of their clubs to train and never visited any of their trials, so I guess I was a paper member for a year, that expired sometime in June of this year, I believe and I never bothered to renew.
> 
> How everything shakes out, remains to be seen. I wouldn't mind seeing Reiser's organization having a satellite presence here in USA outside of the "Fatherland".


I'm not going any ware ether our club is USA were still the big game in town prolly shook out a few that don't matter and they'll be back if they want to compete at the big dance.


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I'm not going any ware ether our club is USA were still the big game in town prolly shook out a few that don't matter and they'll be back if they want to compete at the big dance.


 
Proverbs 16:18 warns that "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

James Downey said:


> Proverbs 16:18 warns that "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."


Meh


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I'm not going any ware ether our club is USA were still the big game in town prolly shook out a few that don't matter and they'll be back if they want to compete at the big dance.


 
I was not kidding, I see that the UScA as a whole has this additude and people are getting sick of it. And I think brand loyalty is a silly loyalty. Just like all the folks here in Detroit who are now without a job keep blaming me for buying a toyota. And not GM or Ford for not building a car that people wanted. GM and Ford just figured they were the biggest game in town and people would have to buy shit, if they wanted anything at all. People got sick of that shit too.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm probably dropping both USA and WDA. 
WDA has only 3-4 working judges now. Gonna be interesting how that works out.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

David Feliciano said:


> With the new relationships formed between AKC, AWDF, and WDA


Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Last I heard when AKC approached AWDF the biggest problem and reason they have no "relationship" is because AKC would have to accept ALL the AWDF member clubs including the breed clubs. Has something changed?


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

James Downey said:


> I was not kidding, I see that the UScA as a whole has this additude and people are getting sick of it. And I think brand loyalty is a silly loyalty. Just like all the folks here in Detroit who are now without a job keep blaming me for buying a toyota. And not GM or Ford for not building a car that people wanted. GM and Ford just figured they were the biggest game in town and people would have to buy shit, if they wanted anything at all. People got sick of that shit too.


I dont agree with all that is going on but not enough to drag up.
I'm a Democrat I don't agree with all the party attachments but I'm not dragging up there ether.


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I dont agree with all that is going on but not enough to drag up.
> I'm a Democrat I don't agree with all the party attachments but I'm not dragging up there ether.


 
I was the same way when the Stamp thing came out. Some people were going crazy about it, I was like it's just a stamp. And I really do not feel I have been screwed in any of this. I just think the UScA is commiting suicide. 

The thing with WDA...and cutting thier own members freedom. They are restricting thier own membership to make free choices in order to hurt another club. That could possibly be the stupidest thing I have ever seen any club ever do.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

James Downey said:


> I was the same way when the Stamp thing came out. Some people were going crazy about it, I was like it's just a stamp. And I really do not feel I have been screwed in any of this. I just think the UScA is commiting suicide.
> 
> The thing with WDA...and cutting thier own members freedom. They are restricting thier own membership to make free choices in order to hurt another club. That could possibly be the stupidest thing I have ever seen any club ever do.


James,

I think you pretty much nailed it. IMHO it all started with breaking up the Rocky Mountain/Great Plains Region and went down hill from there. HeII you might even trace it back to when "they" decided to add "for the German Shepherd Dog" to the United SCHUTZHUND Clubs of American and
act like the the sport was secondary to the breed.
It is hard to separate UScA from the people who are running it now. I think most members, are like the posters on this list. We just want a place to train and trial our dogs.
The BIG question is. Will the present EB piss off enough people that we take back OUR organization before it is too late? The way UScA is set up with only clubs can vote and only if they send a rep to the GBM makes it difficult to chance things :-(


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I'm not sure what to do....and actually resent the fact that I have to chose. A few months ago, prior to obtaining a GSD, I probably would have just went straight to WDA for the sole reason that they did not require a choice be made and of course remained a member of AWMA. Now that I have a GSD, I feel very strongly that I need to make a responsible decision to belong to an organization that promotes the working GSD. I'm sure I'm no different then many of the members of both organization, I just wanted to have a place to train and title my dog(s) - politics aside. But the politics are there. With the current administration (EB, etc) in power, I can't help but wonder what the next bylaw they will hand down will entail. 

Of course at the current time, UScA has more clubs/judges etc in my area....but I'm actually seeing (on the WDA site) that more and more clubs are being started and they have numerous apprentice judges that will eventually be out there judging trials. I really like the idea of one member - one vote that WDA permits. I can't help thinking that if UScA had implimented this (each member gets a vote) mindset that the Grewe by-law would *no*t have passed and most of us would not be in the situation where we are now - having to make a choice. I still don't understand why being a member of both clubs (which I personally never was) is such a conflict - I do understand how it could be a conflict if an EB member had dual membership. Another thing I don't understand is why such the big deal about being a member of another GSD working dog club....but you can still be a member of PETA (who is of course against ALL working dog sports) and a member of UScA? 

I've supported (through trophy sponsorship, membership, WUSV funds etc) UScA for the last ten years, not alot of years in comparision to others I'm sure - heck I did not even have a "schutzhund dog" until my 4th year of membership . Whether I stay or go will not be of importance to any individual but in the big scheme of things....each individual membership* IS* important to every organization.


----------



## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: Thinking of RENEWING USCA membership*

WDA did a great thing by starting this "I am free in America to do what I want." Well I can only have 2 dogs in my subdivision, but I want three. I can't. I work for a company that won't allow me to work for a competing organization. I want to stand by the voting booths and try to convince people to vote my way. I can't. You can join WDA or you can join USA. It is a choice. I will stay with USA no question. AKC rules are that you can have a schutzhund event only in conjunction with an AKC event, but it can't be published in the premium. So AKC has taken no responsiblity and wants to hide our sport. WDA is mainly a show driven group. GSDCA can't even get people to xray hips before they breed their dogs. I want no part of that. The only reason some of the 'big boys' are in it is to find an easy way to get on the world team so they can put it on their resume and make more money. Many of the USA 'nay-sayers' have done what? Been on a committee? Gone to a meeting? Ran a big event for USA? Got involved?
When will they lower the standard so their AKC show dogs can compete, too? Rally schutzhund here we come. Are some of the people in USA, dinks? Yes. But USA is a great organization trying to do the right thing. I do get so annoyed with people that use the lists to spread misinformation because it suits their personal agenda. Let us think of the betterment of our breed of choice. AKC has a lousy track record in my opinion. I am sorry if I sound so angry.  The thing that keeps me smiling is what will happen in a few months when the big boys of WDA start fighting inwardly as they have done in the past. (Danny Spreitler page) So everyone can decide themselves which team to root for...I think USA is, as a whole, doing the right thing.
Anita


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Thinking of RENEWING USCA membership*



Anita Griffing said:


> WDA did a great thing by starting this "I am free in America to do what I want." Well I can only have 2 dogs in my subdivision, but I want three. I can't. I work for a company that won't allow me to work for a competing organization. I want to stand by the voting booths and try to convince people to vote my way. I can't. You can join WDA or you can join USA. It is a choice. I will stay with USA no question. AKC rules are that you can have a schutzhund event only in conjunction with an AKC event, but it can't be published in the premium. So AKC has taken no responsiblity and wants to hide our sport. WDA is mainly a show driven group. GSDCA can't even get people to xray hips before they breed their dogs. I want no part of that. The only reason some of the 'big boys' are in it is to find an easy way to get on the world team so they can put it on their resume and make more money. Many of the USA 'nay-sayers' have done what? Been on a committee? Gone to a meeting? Ran a big event for USA? Got involved?
> When will they lower the standard so their AKC show dogs can compete, too? Rally schutzhund here we come. Are some of the people in USA, dinks? Yes. But USA is a great organization trying to do the right thing. I do get so annoyed with people that use the lists to spread misinformation because it suits their personal agenda. Let us think of the betterment of our breed of choice. AKC has a lousy track record in my opinion. I am sorry if I sound so angry.  The thing that keeps me smiling is what will happen in a few months when the big boys of WDA start fighting inwardly as they have done in the past. (Danny Spreitler page) So everyone can decide themselves which team to root for...I think USA is, as a whole, doing the right thing.
> Anita


And in a nut shell you did a perfect job of spelling things out excellent .


----------



## Jim Engel (Nov 14, 2007)

*Re: Thinking of RENEWING USCA membership*



Anita Griffing said:


> WDA did a great thing by starting this "I am free in America to do what I want." Well I can only have 2 dogs in my subdivision, but I want three. I can't. I work for a company that won't allow me to work for a competing organization. I want to stand by the voting booths and try to convince people to vote my way. I can't. You can join WDA or you can join USA. It is a choice. I will stay with USA no question. AKC rules are that you can have a schutzhund event only in conjunction with an AKC event, but it can't be published in the premium. So AKC has taken no responsiblity and wants to hide our sport. WDA is mainly a show driven group. GSDCA can't even get people to xray hips before they breed their dogs. I want no part of that. The only reason some of the 'big boys' are in it is to find an easy way to get on the world team so they can put it on their resume and make more money. Many of the USA 'nay-sayers' have done what? Been on a committee? Gone to a meeting? Ran a big event for USA? Got involved?
> When will they lower the standard so their AKC show dogs can compete, too? Rally schutzhund here we come. Are some of the people in USA, dinks? Yes. But USA is a great organization trying to do the right thing. I do get so annoyed with people that use the lists to spread misinformation because it suits their personal agenda. Let us think of the betterment of our breed of choice. AKC has a lousy track record in my opinion. I am sorry if I sound so angry.  The thing that keeps me smiling is what will happen in a few months when the big boys of WDA start fighting inwardly as they have done in the past. (Danny Spreitler page) So everyone can decide themselves which team to root for...I think USA is, as a whole, doing the right thing.
> Anita


I also agree.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Thinking of RENEWING USCA membership*



Anita Griffing said:


> I will stay with USA no question. AKC rules are that you can have a schutzhund event only in conjunction with an AKC event, but it can't be published in the premium. So AKC has taken no responsiblity and wants to hide our sport.
> 
> >NON AKC events are never published in the premium, it has
> >nothing to do with Schutzhund
> ...


----------



## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Thomas, thank you, you have absolutely proved my point. 
Anita


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Anita Griffing said:


> Thomas, thank you, you have absolutely proved my point.
> Anita


I'm glad you think so. Let me know what you think when the idiots running UScA totally destroy it with their nonsense :-(


----------



## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

I get the main jist of what your saying Anita - and appreciate your insight.

As for the analogies in your post - I'm guessing most people do a little research of a subdivision rules before buying a house in that subdivision or signing on to work with a particular company - at least if you work for a specific company your getting paid - your not paying them. If the subdivision turned around* NOW, after you've been living there for several years, *and told you that only one dog is allowed, instead of two, I'm sure you would have a few questions and want to get to the root of why the new rules are being implimented. If it is actually for the betterment of the residents of a subdivision fine, I'm sure most residents would receive notice ahead of time and be permitted to actually be heard, but what if it is done because the members of the sub-division board just dislikes dogs or feel threatened by their meer presence or a few dogs owners in the subdivision happened to piss them off?

The "I am free in America to do what I want" is no different then stating that the Grewe bylaw was exclusively written for " the betterment of the GSD breed". Even in his own email (sent to the EB and regional directors on Oct 17th) he states that " the WDA (naming specific members) was created to destroy UScA" and goes on to say that " about 50% of WDA members are also UScA members..So, they slowly got stronger and today control the Show-Situation and we just watching this happen and keep watching them get stronger on the Schutzhund site too". So is it really about the betterment of the breed or more of a concern as to UScA feeling threatened by another organization? I'm still trying to research things myself - so I don't have the answer.

As many have stated how they dislike AKC as a whole, myself included, how many of us are still registering our litters, dogs with them so that we or puppy owners can, if they so desire, compete at the various venues with the dog listed on the scorebook as GSD, Malinois etc instead of mixed breed? Whether we like it or not they (AKC) are THE ONLY breed registry in the United States that is recognized.

The lowering of standards in obtaining Schutzhund titles has been going on for some time.....without AKC's help.


----------



## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Hey Lacey,
I think you have some valid points.
Anita


----------

