# Im looking for a breeder



## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Im interested in either buying a Rottweiler, German shepherd or Beauceron to train in schutzhund in the near future. Ive been having a hard time find a great working dog breeder in the us (especially for Beaucerons). So anyone know of any good breeders for any of those breeds?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

are you dead set on a puppy?


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> are you dead set on a puppy?


im not dead set on a puppy but i am definitely leaning more that way


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

How much experience do you have in schutzhund or dog training.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Her name is Debbie Skinner, she is on here a good bit, don't know her personally but alot of her dogs are proven in the sport world. Here's her website.

http://www.pawsnclaws.us/


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Shane Woodlief said:


> How much experience do you have in schutzhund or dog training.


for schutzhund very little in actually working with dogs. but i have always love the sport, seen many dogs perform, read lots about it and ive talked to a few local trainers about it. and ive deiced that since i have a passion for those three dog breed, they i would love to enroll in schutzhund classes with what ever breed i pick. As for dog training, i havent trained tons of dog (im still young) but i have been working with my own rottie/GSD mix in working on some advanced obedience, i have also worked at my local spca with their dog trainer training their rescue dogs. some of which have included rotties and GSD


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Where do you live? Reason I am asking might depend on who I recommend.

I have owned and trained several different breeds and my advise ,since your are new to schutzhund, would be to go the route of a GSD. Not that I am saying that GSD are beginner dogs because they are not. You will have more access to getting a good GSD pup than you will trying to find a Rotti or Beauceron IMO.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

I live in like the middle of New York state. And i have heard that GSD are good "beginner" dogs for SCH. So even though rotties are the top dogs in my book, i have been looking into GSD more, at least to start out with.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Here is a guy that is a Canadian breeder/schutzhund competitor his name is Raino Fluege (Pronounced like Rhino) on Prince Edward Island and would not be much to import him. 

He and his dog Kofi are going to the worlds this year. Freaking awesome dog check out his site. Hands down one of the first places I would look if I were in that part of the country. He has a breeding to Isis a female out of Hannes (awesome producer). It is a repeat breeding by demand because the first litter was so good.

http://www.germanshepherddogs.ca/index.html


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Nice reccomendation.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

those do look like great dogs, its a bit of a ways away but i think ill keep them in mind and im so glad their dogs dont have that ugly severely sloping back, like this one http://www.ourdogs.info/artman/uploads/akc2.jpg .
i dont have much of a requirement as far as looks go (even though i would love a bi colored GSD), but i will never buy a GSD with a sloping back, its just so wrong to me


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Sarah there is are big differences between "show" shepherds and working shepherds!


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

i know but i have seen working shepherds with that deformity, not that bad but still sloping


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Those hugely slanted backs are coming from the show GSD's. You don't see it nearly as prolific in the working lines, if at all.


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## Charlotte Hince (Oct 7, 2010)

Shane Woodlief said:


> Here is a guy that is a Canadian breeder/schutzhund competitor his name is Raino Fluege (Pronounced like Rhino) on Prince Edward Island and would not be much to import him.
> 
> He and his dog Kofi are going to the worlds this year. Freaking awesome dog check out his site. Hands down one of the first places I would look if I were in that part of the country. He has a breeding to Isis a female out of Hannes (awesome producer). It is a repeat breeding by demand because the first litter was so good.
> 
> http://www.germanshepherddogs.ca/index.html


Ha. The female is he's breeding is Isa. Isis is his daughter and I believe was the one who did most of the competing with Isa, but please correct me if I'm wrong. 

None of their training times have ever jived with my work schedule or I would have gone out to see the club. One day...


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

How much drive does your current dog have? Why not start training with him? Our club has a really nice shep/rotti mix and you don't have to have a purebred to do the sport. 

Join a club, watch the dogs work, it will help you decide what you want from your own working dog aside from just breed. They will also likely know breeders to help you find a good working dog.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Harry Keely said:


> Her name is Debbie Skinner, she is on here a good bit, don't know her personally but alot of her dogs are proven in the sport world. Here's her website.
> 
> http://www.pawsnclaws.us/


+1  I second this recommendation. I know Debbie personally and if I was looking for a Beauce she would be at the top of my list.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> +1  I second this recommendation. I know Debbie personally and if I was looking for a Beauce she would be at the top of my list.


Thanks Candy and Harry. 

Our latest litter is just on the ground. 6 pups born yesterday (3 and 3). I attached a pix that Debbie Pluss (co-breeder) took today - Day 1. She whelped the litter and is raising them until they are weaned and then they are coming over here. 

Regretfully this litter is all reserved. I tried to update my classified puppy ad, but it says it's too old so I cannot..bummer... 

But, I will take pixs and videos as they mature and post links to youtube so you can follow their progress. One of the males is going to a ring home and one to a S&R home if they show the right stuff. 

You can visit the puppy page and from there click on vids of the parents doing some bite-work. Neither owner trains regular at all..pity as the dogs have qualities. www.pawsnclaws.us/beaucepups.htm 

Have to run..a bit worried about my old mali girl "Orly". She'll be 13 yrs old soon and started staggering on Saturday. Took her today and got an alpha wave treatment. Never heard of it until a friend offered to try it on her. She seems better. Getting old sucks.

Sarah - See as many of the working dog breeds as possible working and "in life" before deciding.

Good luck and you can visit or chat with me about Beauceron or Mals..that's the 2 I know the best.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Thanks Candy and Harry.
> 
> Our latest litter is just on the ground. 6 pups born yesterday (3 and 3). I attached a pix that Debbie Pluss (co-breeder) took today - Day 1. She whelped the litter and is raising them until they are weaned and then they are coming over here.
> 
> ...


Congrats to Debbie & Debbie on the new litter ;-) 

That's just sucky news about Orly  For those that don't know she is Bogan's mom. She looked in great shape last time I saw her. Old dogs are my favorites. I'll keep good thoughts that whatever treatment you are using will help her. At the very least to be comfortable and mobile. 

Please keep me posted.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Charlotte Hince said:


> Ha. The female is he's breeding is Isa. Isis is his daughter and I believe was the one who did most of the competing with Isa, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> None of their training times have ever jived with my work schedule or I would have gone out to see the club. One day...


I always get the two names mixed up. 

Yes it is Isis's dog that she personally worked that he is breeding Kofi too. She (Isa) is still an awesome dog and Hannes produce's strong dogs. Kofi's line is awesome as well. The first litter was really nice hence the repeat breeding.

He actually has 3 litters coming up out of Kofi but I know that one with Isa will be nice.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

leslie cassian said:


> How much drive does your current dog have? Why not start training with him? Our club has a really nice shep/rotti mix and you don't have to have a purebred to do the sport.
> 
> Join a club, watch the dogs work, it will help you decide what you want from your own working dog aside from just breed. They will also likely know breeders to help you find a good working dog.



he does have a good drive but i dont know how well he would do in it. he is very friendly to everyone (just lets anybody walk right in to the house and greets them with a big kiss. any body have any idea how to make him become more protective?)

i have been teaching him to bite and release on command but he has no hold, once in a while he will hold and tug but the second i start to really tug he lets go.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

if you want a good rottweiler I have an Unkas daughter that might be available.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

im not going to be getting this new dog for another year or two. in about 3 years im going to be attending the Highland Canine Training, LLC dog training school in FL http://www.dogtrainingtampafl.com/ . So thats why im leaning more towards a breeder thats going to be having litters around then, im looking now so i can get to know the breeder and the breed a little better before owning one. The pup will also be coming with me to the school and that is where he/she will be getting his/her training from.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Cool.

Where the heck is Matt G?

I found a vendor for him and judging by the price, these dogs must be better than typical PSD

http://www.highlandcanine.com/protection dog training.htm


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

also if you look here http://www.highlandcanine.com/featureddogs.htm

it says 
"Highland Canine Training offers excellent working *dogs imported* directly from Europe. We import only the best dogs available. We offer:
_*German Shepherds
Belgian Malinois
Belgian Tervurens
Labrador Retrievers
 Golden Retrievers
Bloodhounds 
Other Breeds Upon Request"*_


_*so i might see if i can request a rottweiler from there, since the rottie is truly my favorite breed and the breed im most looking forward to owning a purebred of
*_


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Sarah Best said:


> also if you look here http://www.highlandcanine.com/featureddogs.htm
> 
> it says
> "Highland Canine Training offers excellent working *dogs imported* directly from Europe. We import only the best dogs available. We offer:
> ...



I wouldn't


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> I wouldn't


Ditto. 

But if you want to spend 10k on a dog mine fits their level 1 requirements of being obedient and barking, no apprehension...I paid $300 for her.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> I wouldn't


why not?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Sarah Best said:


> why not?


I would NEVER buy a dog from a broker. You're paying for the dog, plus shipping, plus the brokers commission. You can do a little research on your own and get a better Rottweiler right here in the States for less money
Isn't this the same place that has the dog training School you plan on attending?


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

yes it is, not the same "branch" of it though


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Sarah Best said:


> also if you look here http://www.highlandcanine.com/featureddogs.htm
> 
> it says
> "Highland Canine Training offers excellent working *dogs imported* directly from Europe. We import only the best dogs available. We offer:
> ...


Wom maybe that can get a few more breeds involved to become a official puppy mill. Oh shit did I say that out loud oops :evil:


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Sarah Best said:


> why not?


When you become that involved with that many different breeds, how do you ever truly understand 1 or 2 maybe three fully. To many differing gene pools to ever truly know what your really getting also night and day as well in some of them breeds all together. With that many breeds the only ligit excuse would be a boarding facility other than that its absolute ridiculous.


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## Sharon Bank (Jun 23, 2009)

Holy crap! I rarely post, since I spend most of my time on this Forum trying to read, absorb and learn. After I looked at this breeder/trainer's website, I just had to respond.

In my humble opinion, this is a con artist of the highest order. Any breeder/trainer asking $10,500 for a dog that is obedient and will bark at intruders is a con artist, or a marketing genius, depending on your outlook. I can go to the pound and find a dog for a about $10,450 less that will bark at strangers...

_"Level I Personal Protection Dogs are trained to be alert in their home / surroundings and to bark and alert their owners to the presence of intruders. These dogs are not trained to bite or apprehend subjects. Level I Protection dogs are trained to bark on command and when they feel a threat to themselves or their owners. These dogs are ideal for families that are concerned with having a dog that is fully trained in protection work.

Level I Protection Dogs starting at $10,500 USD"_​
Run, run, run and don't look back! There are some good training schools in the US that anyone who is interested in dog training can attend. I am sure some of the senior members of this Forum can recommend a few.


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic (Nov 21, 2008)

good for you that you came to this forum looking for advice, there are some people here that truly know their shit and they eat, breathe and sleep working dogs and they can steer you in the right direction.

it is also good that you are doing your research now, 3 years is a long time and if you spend it, asking questions, observing, reading, absorbing, you'll be just fine when the day comes.

I am a German Shepherd guy for life, but I wouldn't kick out and I'd put gladly a bowl of food and a warm blanket in a crate for a nice Beauceron. Hard to find a good Rottweiler these days, not impossible, but hard.

I think other posters thought you were looking for a dog like, NOW, and all their advice is sound, too. But, since you are not, look up Debbie Zapia, she is a world class trainer, competitor, maybe breeder too I am not sure and see if you can join her schutzhund club.

Also, some con artist's guy school in florida. You do't need to go to that "school" to do schutzhund or to learn schutzhund. You need a good club in your neck of the woods.

Best way to do it is to go there, even without the dog, meet people, ask questions, watch, learn, ask them about their dogs, where they got it, see if you like this one or that one etc.. etc...

it's a good journey and a kind of activity, or a hobby if you will, that once fully into it, doesn't leave much time for other hobbies.

best of luck to you and keep us updated of your progress.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

I would stay far away from anything they want to sell you, including knowledge.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Harry Keely said:


> When you become that involved with that many different breeds, how do you ever truly understand 1 or 2 maybe three fully. To many differing gene pools to ever truly know what your really getting also night and day as well in some of them breeds all together. With that many breeds the only ligit excuse would be a boarding facility other than that its absolute ridiculous.



thats what they are, a boarding facility. this is not one breeder selling all these dogs. this is a training comapny with different locations through out the us selling/training different types of dogs.

taken from their web site
"Do you breed your own dogs?
Dog breeding is a very long process. Out of a litter of 10 usually only 3 pups will be qualified to go through our rigorous training which leaves us with 7 pups that we need to adopt out, another long process. For this reason we use professional breeders and vendors and import dogs so that we can spend our time on the most important aspect, training your dog for your needs."
http://www.highlandcanine.com/protection dog questions.htm


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

why do you want to learn from those guys? How did you find them? There are a ton of red flags that are popping up and I know I'm not the only one who sees them.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Adi Ibrahimbegovic said:


> good for you that you came to this forum looking for advice, there are some people here that truly know their shit and they eat, breathe and sleep working dogs and they can steer you in the right direction.
> 
> it is also good that you are doing your research now, 3 years is a long time and if you spend it, asking questions, observing, reading, absorbing, you'll be just fine when the day comes.
> 
> ...



im not going to that school for schutzhund. i plan on making my living in training dogs and not just with working dogs. im going for all their Dog Obedience Training and Behavior Modification Programs


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Sarah Best said:


> im not going to that school for schutzhund. i plan on making my living in training dogs and not just with working dogs. im going for all their Dog Obedience Training and Behavior Modification Programs


Sarah,

Compare the training done and the reputation of
http://michaelellisschool.com/courses.htm

to the school you plan on going to.
Hopefully in the next 2-3 years you'll reconsider.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

The fawn one and the blue ones still available :-D Those are big prices on that list for exec/security dogs.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Sarah,
> 
> Compare the training done and the reputation of
> http://michaelellisschool.com/courses.htm
> ...


maybe if i was located in the CA area i would consider them. also they just dont offer that many courses, yes they are cheaper then HL but HL also offers smaller classes and what seems like more in depth classes. (maybe *Michael Ellis school does off more but im just going on the course descriptions)*


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Debbie Skinner said:


> The fawn one and the blue ones still available :-D Those are big prices on that list for exec/security dogs.



wow those are some beautiful Beaucerons. i havent had time to really look at your web site but do you crop all your dogs ears? or is it just a few dogs that have cropped ears?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

consider the quality of the trainer.

I would seriously avoid that place in FL


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Sarah Best said:


> wow those are some beautiful Beaucerons. i havent had time to really look at your web site but do you crop all your dogs ears? or is it just a few dogs that have cropped ears?


I use a vet that specializes in ear cropping do the ears at around 8 weeks old. I include the cropping in the price. If you want natural ears, it is possible of course, but I give a break price wise to those wanting cropped ears by including it. Statistically if a dog needs to be re-homes (dane, dobie, beauce) it has been said by rescues that the cropped eared dog gets adopted faster. So I just think of what is best for the dog and if it ever has to go to a new home. But, again it's up to the puppy buyer. I'm just very traditional and favor the properly cropped ear on a Bas Rouge.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> consider the quality of the trainer.
> 
> I would seriously avoid that place in FL




thanks for your opinion but this isnt just some school that i picked out of the blue. Ive been in contact with multiple people that have attended their programs and are very happy with the training they did on their dogs and their training courses. seen many wonderful reviews about this school and their trainers. So for right now i think ill stick with them.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Sarah Best said:


> maybe if i was located in the CA area i would consider them. also they just dont offer that many courses, yes they are cheaper then HL but HL also offers smaller classes and what seems like more in depth classes. (maybe *Michael Ellis school does off more but im just going on the course descriptions)*


HI Sarah,

It's your money and your decision, but you can't just go by how many different courses are offered and the course descriptions.
You have to consider reputation. As far as I can tell the HL TD has experience in Police work, but none in sport or pet dog training. Ask for references from his students. Talk to people that have completed the training and see what kind of jobs they're working at now. I suspect there's more money being made "training" dog trainers then there is training dogs.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Debbie Skinner said:


> I use a vet that specializes in ear cropping do the ears at around 8 weeks old. I include the cropping in the price. If you want natural ears, it is possible of course, but I give a break price wise to those wanting cropped ears by including it. Statistically if a dog needs to be re-homes (dane, dobie, beauce) it has been said by rescues that the cropped eared dog gets adopted faster. So I just think of what is best for the dog and if it ever has to go to a new home. But, again it's up to the puppy buyer. I'm just very traditional and favor the properly cropped ear on a Bas Rouge.


i most likely will get one with cropped ears, i know its not the looks of a dog that maters but i just think it makes them look more refined and more unique.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Sarah Best said:


> I live in like the middle of New York state. And i have heard that GSD are good "beginner" dogs for SCH. So even though rotties are the top dogs in my book, i have been looking into GSD more, at least to start out with.



There is a good working breeder in WV of GSD and Beauces. Kathy Holbert http://www.chiodokennels.com/


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Sarah Best said:


> i most likely will get one with cropped ears, i know its not the looks of a dog that maters but i just think it makes them look more refined and more unique.


If you are looking to import a Beauceron, here are a couple places to look in France. No cropping in France so must be cropped here. Cost of shipping can be pricey. I have a bigger list with more recommendation of breeders in France. I have these at my finger tips because they are using a couple dogs from me as studs.

*2010 Recommend Litters - Beaucerons du Gex D'Emplume (France)*​  *Phantom des Ombres Valeureux x Balla pregnant with small litter (June 2010). *  Balla's pedigree:  http://www.chiens-de-france.com/site_eleveur/index.php?rub=chiens&page=fiche&ID_ELEVEUR=8733&ID_SITE=9768&ID_CHIEN=435300&TABLE=t_chien_03  *  Phantom des Ombres Valeureux x A’Bonny …breeding planned.  * * A'Bonny's pedigree:   http://www.chiens-de-france.com/site_eleveur/index.php?rub=chiens&page=fiche&ID_ELEVEUR=8733&ID_SITE=9768&ID_CHIEN=361422&TABLE=t_chien_03  * Contact Information:  http://www.chiens-de-france.com/site_eleveur/index.php?rub=contact&page=index&ID_ELEVEUR=8733&ID_SITE=9768  



​ *Sire: Avatar des Ombres Valeureux, FRIII and Dam: Ascia des Barons Noirs Della Foppa, Brevet Obedience. 
*
*Puppies DOB: September 30, 2010. 5 puppies (4 males + 1 female). 
*
*Avatar Ped: **  www.pawsnclaws.us/avatar_ped.htm and Ascia Ped:   http://www.aboutbeaucerons.com/cgi-bin/geneal.pl?op=tr...ee&index=22525&gens=4&db=beaucer on.dbw 

Visit Breeder Web Page for more information on puppies:  http://lesbaronsnoirs.fr/ * NOTE: These Puppies are in France and please contact the breeder directly.
​


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Im a professional (full time) trainer located in Florida.
Ive heard mixed things about almost every dog trainer school out there. I have heard nothing good about the school you are considering. Granted, Im not a fan of trainer schools to begin with. Almost every "trainer" Ive known fresh out of trainer's school thought they knew loads more than they actually did. However, if you're going to be throwing money into a school, reputation is extremely important. It's taken me a while to realize just how small of a community the serious dog fancy is. People that have a reputation for being a con artists usually earned the title. Just sayin...


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

well again thank for your guys opinions but the place where i choose to go is not really the subject here. what i really need help with is finding breeders


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Sarah Best said:


> well again thank for your guys opinions but the place where i choose to go is not really the subject here. what i really need help with is finding breeders


HI Sarah

You can't un ring a bell. You brought up the breeder/trainer/school in your post #25. When the majority opinion was steer clear, you defended the school Now you want to end the discussion?


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## Carol Boche (May 13, 2007)

Debbie Skinner said:


> The fawn one and the blue ones still available :-D Those are big prices on that list for exec/security dogs.


Too CUTE!!! I really like the Blue ones, fawns are so overrated these days....LOL 

I agree with researching the different schools before deciding on one, and you really can't go wrong by choosing to train Michael Ellis at all.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Thomas Barriano said:


> HI Sarah
> 
> You can't un ring a bell. You brought up the breeder/trainer/school in your post #25. When the majority opinion was steer clear, you defended the school Now you want to end the discussion?


people gave there opinion and i gave mine. so i thought it was over since i posted asking for breeders, not recommendations on schools that i wont even be going to for another 3 or 4 years (if i was looking for recommendations or opinions on that school i would have posted in the training forums). and i simply brought up the school to show that the dog will be getting training by people that have worked with those breeds before ,since i havent owned those breeds before.

i guess you can post all you want about other schools but right now im truly not interested in that, im more intreasted in finding a breeder.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

one of the best things you can do is visit a working dog club. Get to know the people. They will know who locally to get the best dogs from or will be able to recommend other breeders in your areas. If you can score a pup from a club member they most likely will help you train the dog. The you won't need to go to a shit farm dog training school. The last thing the dog training world is another shitty dog trainer who thinks they know what they are doing because the paid a lot of money for training.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Sarah Best said:


> people gave there opinion and i gave mine. so i thought it was over since i posted asking for breeders, not recommendations on schools that i wont even be going to for another 3 or 4 years (if i was looking for recommendations or opinions on that school i would have posted in the training forums). and i simply brought up the school to show that the dog will be getting training by people that have worked with those breeds before ,since i havent owned those breeds before.
> 
> i guess you can post all you want about other schools but right now im truly not interested in that, im more intreasted in finding a breeder.


A fool and their money are soon parted. The advice you got isn't out of spite, it's trying to save you a headache, you'd do good to listen. But seems you've made up your mind. If I was a breeder, with the attitude you have, I wouldn't sell you a stuffed animal, including the blue and fawns mentioned above  . But that's me.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Ashley Campbell said:


> A fool and their money are soon parted. The advice you got isn't out of spite, it's trying to save you a headache, you'd do good to listen. But seems you've made up your mind. If I was a breeder, with the attitude you have, I wouldn't sell you a stuffed animal, including the blue and fawns mentioned above  . But that's me.


 
your one tough Cookie Mrs Campbell!! I happen to agree with you, some folks have tunnel vision and hate to get off course of what they are thinking.....or hearing.....


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> A fool and their money are soon parted. The advice you got isn't out of spite, it's trying to save you a headache, you'd do good to listen. But seems you've made up your mind. If I was a breeder, with the attitude you have, I wouldn't sell you a stuffed animal, including the blue and fawns mentioned above  . But that's me.


and what ive said isnt out of spite with being told im wroung for choosing that place or being told im a fool for picking that place. Is what you want me saying i wont go to that place? well i dont think thats going to happen. But i give you my world that i will look at many other training places and after looking at all the places i will then deiced on where i chose to go. does that make you happy? and i dont think i said that im 100% sure that im going there, i said that i plan on it right now but maybe in the 3 or 4 years that i have before im going to any school i will find another place that i like better.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Sarah Best said:


> and what ive said isnt out of spite with being told im wroung for choosing that place or being told im a fool for picking that place. Is what you want me saying i wont go to that place? well i dont think thats going to happen. But i give you my world that i will look at many other training places and after looking at all the places i will then deiced on where i chose to go. does that make you happy? and i dont think i said that im 100% sure that im going there, i said that i plan on it right now but maybe in the 3 or 4 years that i have before im going to any school i will find another place that i like better.


That's a whole lot of attitude from someone who professes to not be in the know, to a board of people that are more than well versed in such subjects. No it doesn't make me "happy" that you're defending a place you know nothing about, as you have said yourself you are not informed on it yet, no shame in that. Being defensive as you have been is not going to help you in the long run, that's my whole point. If you don't like the advice given, then don't take it, but why argue it if you don't know anything about it? There is no shame in being ignorant, but to disregard any information presented that doesn't fit in with what you *think* you know is no longer being ignorant. 
Michael Ellis is a more than competent trainer, and you'd do good to look more into people such as him rather than what their course offers. I would bet a years salary you would learn more from someone like him than you would in 2 years with most of the "dog training schools" in the US.

Three or four years? I'm assuming that makes you a high schooler? I might give you a break on the attitude for that, maybe.

Jody, not a tough cookie, just brutally honest.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Michael Ellis would be my choice, hands down, and I'm only 45 mins from a school that is well known all over the country/world.

What I will say about ANY training school. If you don't have the ability to learn how to do it, it ain't gonna happen. Doesn't matter how many or what school you attend.
I've seen to many "graduates" that had no more dog sense then the man in the moon. They do what they do because "my trainer said that's how to do it". :roll:


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Ashley Campbell said:


> That's a whole lot of attitude from someone who professes to not be in the know, to a board of people that are more than well versed in such subjects. No it doesn't make me "happy" that you're defending a place you know nothing about, as you have said yourself you are not informed on it yet, no shame in that. Being defensive as you have been is not going to help you in the long run, that's my whole point. If you don't like the advice given, then don't take it, but why argue it if you don't know anything about it? There is no shame in being ignorant, but to disregard any information presented that doesn't fit in with what you *think* you know is no longer being ignorant.
> Michael Ellis is a more than competent trainer, and you'd do good to look more into people such as him rather than what their course offers. I would bet a years salary you would learn more from someone like him than you would in 2 years with most of the "dog training schools" in the US.
> 
> Three or four years? I'm assuming that makes you a high schooler? I might give you a break on the attitude for that, maybe.
> ...


im really not trying to make it out like i know more about dog training then anyone on here, i know that i dont know more about it then most of the people on here. But then again i think i know a little more about HL then some of the people on here. Also im sure that Michael Elli is an amazing trainer. the reason why im not going to go to him is, if i recall hes located in CA and im in NY and i really dont think i want to travel cross country for a few weeks of courses just to go back to NY. but then again im not saying that i would never go to him. im also sure there are just as competent trainers on the east coast that i can go to.


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Your choices are your choices. 
In regards to a breeder, I would focus on breed and lines within breeds before you seek a breeder. You have time to learn and research and most importantly OBSERVE from a variety of people and dogs. Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. If someone breeds a dog, it should be safe to assume that they like the dog so asking them their opinion of the dog is quite fruitless. 

If you spend a lot of time among good clubs, you will meet good dogs and begin to gather first-hand knowledge to form an opinion, rather than a theory. Most good clubs contain good breeders and if they are impressed with you, dogs/puppies have a way of presenting themselves.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

Kristina Senter said:


> Your choices are your choices.
> In regards to a breeder, I would focus on breed and lines within breeds before you seek a breeder. You have time to learn and research and most importantly OBSERVE from a variety of people and dogs. Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. If someone breeds a dog, it should be safe to assume that they like the dog so asking them their opinion of the dog is quite fruitless.
> 
> If you spend a lot of time among good clubs, you will meet good dogs and begin to gather first-hand knowledge to form an opinion, rather than a theory. Most good clubs contain good breeders and if they are impressed with you, dogs/puppies have a way of presenting themselves.



i have found a Schutzhund Club off of the United Schutzhund Clubs of America web site in my area. so hopefully i can go to their next event and get some more information on local breeders and the sport


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Sarah Best said:


> im really not trying to make it out like i know more about dog training then anyone on here, i know that i dont know more about it then most of the people on here. But then again i think i know a little more about HL then some of the people on here. Also im sure that Michael Elli is an amazing trainer. the reason why im not going to go to him is, if i recall hes located in CA and im in NY and i really dont think i want to travel cross country for a few weeks of courses just to go back to NY. but then again im not saying that i would never go to him. im also sure there are just as competent trainers on the east coast that i can go to.


He's based in California but also does seminars, which might be a good idea to check out and see what you can learn from one of those (there's some clips of his on Youtube and the like also) - you might be surprised how much you can learn just by watching - I know I've learned more by watching someone from this board than I have reading any book or watching videos - and I have most of the Leerburg vids.


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## Sarah Best (Oct 3, 2010)

just a quick little update

i have deiced to go with Debbie Skinner (www.pawsnclaws.us) as the breeder to get my future Beauceron from. Just everything i read on her website is what im was looking for in a breeder. But as for finding a rottweiler or GSD breeder i am still looking through many breeders and have not yet found one that i really like.


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## charles Turner (Mar 2, 2009)

Sarah Best said:


> just a quick little update
> 
> i have deiced to go with Debbie Skinner (www.pawsnclaws.us) as the breeder to get my future Beauceron from. Just everything i read on her website is what im was looking for in a breeder. But as for finding a rottweiler or GSD breeder i am still looking through many breeders and have not yet found one that i really like.


 good luck.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Sara, there's a UScA herding Club in your area as well, this gives you an oppertunity to see GSD's work as herding dogs. Many clips on Youtube, but seeing in person would be great stuff.

See www.whitecloversheepfarm.com


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Edward Egan said:


> Sara, there's a UScA herding Club in your area as well, this gives you an oppertunity to see GSD's work as herding dogs. Many clips on Youtube, but seeing in person would be great stuff.
> 
> See www.whitecloversheepfarm.com



I'd give my right.......arm to be that close to Ellen's place. True HGH style herding.


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