# Dog whisperer show



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

With Cesar Milan is on nomination to be removed from dutch television. People are sending signing list on around to stop the show to be shown, ´cause they think it is to cruel (using prongs wrong way).

I have never seen a show, but do you guys think of this?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

!???? That's just plain weird... he barely uses the prong collar, he never tells people to use a tool, he uses whatever the people have... if they have a choker, he uses a choke, if they have a prong, he uses a prong. I've never seen him give a hard correction, he controls dogs with his body language and voice more than anything... he's a behaviorist not a trainer, his job is to stop destructive/aggressive/fearful behaviors and teach the pet owners how to control their dogs.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

What I´ve seen on his website is indeed fine by me. I try to see a show soon.

Maybe I should add this: a lot of these people only use positive trainingstuff, no corrections, use a clicker. Prong & choker are bad and e-collar is the very bad dog abuse. They don´t like bite training IPO or KNPV.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

_This is what I saw on a board, i´ll try to translate as proper possible. Mike will you change it for me if the translation isn´t accurate?_

Teken ook! En zegt het voort! 
_Please sign this! And tell about it!_

http://www.axci.nl/?ln=ned&id=45 

Handtekeningaktie 
_Signing list_

SBS6 programma 'Opvoedpolitie voor dieren' 
- Amerikaanse versie - van de buis 


Aan: SBS6 

Juni 2006 

Petitie Opvoedpolitie voor dieren 
Aan: SBS6 

In uw uitzendingen van de Amerikaanse versie van het programma 
'Opvoedpolitie voor dieren' wordt naar onze mening gebruik gemaakt van 
uiterst dieronvriendelijke methoden, die al jarenlang door onderzoek op het 
gebied van dierengedrag achterhaald zijn. 

_The methods shown in the show are in our opinion outdated for years by dog behavior research_

De in deze uitzendingen gepropageerde methoden kunnen schade toebrengen aan 
de relatie van uw kijkers met hun hond, wat kan resulteren in gevaarlijke 
situaties en veel dieren- en mensenleed. In de Verenigde Staten loopt 
momenteel een aanklacht tegen de hondentrainer die volgens deze methode 
werkt. 
_The shown methods good damage the relationship between human and canine, which could lead to dangerous situations and animal and human suffering. In the USA currently there is a law suit against a dogtrainer who works with this method_

Wij vertrouwen erop dat SBS6 met ons het belang onderkent van verantwoord 
huisdierbezit en zijn verantwoordelijkheid hierin neemt. Wij verzoeken u dan 
ook dringend de uitzending van dit programma te staken en eventueel te 
vervangen door een diervriendelijke versie, zoals de Engelse uitzendingen 
van 'Opvoedpolitie voor dieren'. 

_We trust that you take your responsabilty, and therefore ask you to replace the show by a animalfriendly one like the english show_

Organisaties die op dit moment hebben ondertekend: 
_signed by_

- Federatie Hondensport Nederland, Valkenswaard 
- Hondenbescherming, Den Haag 
- Kon. Ned. Jagersvereniging, Amersfoort 
- Kon. Ned. Kennelclub KNK Cynophilia, Driebergen 
- Kon. Ned. Maatschappij voor Diergeneeskunde KNMvD, Houten 
- Kynologen Vakbond Nederland KVN, Amsterdam 
- Kynologisch Adviesbureau DogVision, Amersfoort 
- Kynotrain Nederland, Sprundel 
- Martin Gaus Gedragscentrum Nederland, Lelystad 
- Ned. Ver. Instructeurs Hondenopvoeding en opleiding O&O, Leerdam 
- Ned. Ver. voor Gedragstherapeuten voor honden Alpha, Utrecht 
- Platform Verantwoord Huisdierenbezit, Barneveld 
- Practical Training Centre PTC+, Barneveld 
- Quiebus Kynologisch Centrum, Goirle 
- Raad van Beheer op Kynologisch Gebied, Amsterdam 
- Sophiavereeniging (tot bescherming van dieren), Amsterdam 
- Tinley Kynologisch Adviesbureau, Zetten 
- Van Hall Instituut, Leeuwarden 
- Wageningen Universiteit en Research Centrum, Adaptation Physiology Group 




Initiatiefnemers: 
PVH - Platform Verantwoord Huisdierbezit 

Contact: 
Voor meer informatie kunt u contact opnemen met het Platform Verantwoord 
Huisdierbezit, e-mail: *****


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Yeah, that's a load of crap, the dog whisperer is very tame compared to what some people SHOULD do with their dogs!!!

I was in a pet store last week and a lady was holding a choke collar in her hand, I told her "have you considered a prong collar instead? its better for the dog" n another lady standing nearby was telling me "you mean the spikes!??? that's so cruel!" .... I talked to her for 3 or 4 minutes n explained a little about training n she listened, n started looking at the prong collars. She apparently watches the dog whisperer n is following all his advice lol.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We run into the same problems in this country as well. There are certain groups that automatically place police and sport trainers in a class of animal abusers. The only acceptable correction to some of this group is to ignore a behavior, not give a treat or give it a "time out". We once had a complaint files by an animal rights group against our canine program because we confined the poor animal to the back of a $25,000 dollar automobile, with the a/c running, while the officer was eating lunch inside a resturant. Poor dog. I've always taken the stance that positive reinforcement is indeed, a great way to train dogs. Positive reinforcement is even more effective when the dog understands there are consequences to a miss behavior. But, that's me, often labled as a "yank and crank" trainer. I'm so ashamed.

DFrost


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

David Frost said:


> But, that's me, often labled as a "yank and crank" trainer. I'm so ashamed.
> 
> DFrost


You to :lol: But they´re lobbying, and I haven´t seen the show yet, but what I see on his website is nothing wrong IMO...but i´m a cruel person who trains dogs for my own satisfaction and selfimage :roll:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I think we should be allowed to use pinch and e-collars on some people!


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> but i´m a cruel person who trains dogs for my own satisfaction and selfimage :roll:


Exactly! Now you're getting it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: kidding, don't hit me!


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Selena van Leeuwen said:
> 
> 
> > but i´m a cruel person who trains dogs for my own satisfaction and selfimage :roll:
> ...


I have a better punishment..you´re off the spare reservation list.. :twisted: 

:wink: 

ben je melig?


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

melig? ken die word niet.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Gaar, wordt je vervelend/grappig, gebeurt meestal na een lange vermoeiende dag op het werk. Misschien gebruikten ze het woord niet in de omgeving waar je ouders woonde.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> !???? That's just plain weird... he barely uses the prong collar, he never tells people to use a tool, he uses whatever the people have... if they have a choker, he uses a choke, if they have a prong, he uses a prong. I've never seen him give a hard correction, he controls dogs with his body language and voice more than anything... he's a behaviorist not a trainer, his job is to stop destructive/aggressive/fearful behaviors and teach the pet owners how to control their dogs.


Everything Mike says here is 100% correct. I have watched every episode (of each of the two years, 2004 and 2006), taped and re-watched them, seen his facility in L.A., read his book (twice), and gone to his seminars. Anyone who is saying that he is a cruel beahviorist is (IMO) trying to ride on his fame in some way, even if it's negative.

I think some people conveniently forget that the TV show is dealing with extremely screwed-up dogs....... often with dogs who try to kill, and always with dogs who are out of control, thanks to extremely bad handlers. 

He is not dealing with a blank slate on those episodes..... he is often saving a dog with one last chance before euthanizing.

His book ...... a whole 'nother thing. 

Someone has not done their research. JMO!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> David Frost said:
> 
> 
> > But, that's me, often labled as a "yank and crank" trainer. I'm so ashamed.
> ...


Yeah, me too.  

The term "load of crap" is very apt here. :lol:


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> I think we should be allowed to use pinch and e-collars on some people!


And this is coming from the person who uses purely positive training! OH MY! :lol:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I've watched many of his shows. He continually reminds people that what dogs are looking for is calm, assertive leadership. He uses some different words to describe some of the same things many of us do. The only thing that irritates me is; I'm not the one that got a TV show to demonstrate to someone how to get a Great Dane off the couch. If you haven't seen that episode, I can't explain it, but it was funny. He really isn't all that bad. In my opinion, he just uses some good basic principles of dog training.

DFrost


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> Bob Scott said:
> 
> 
> > I think we should be allowed to use pinch and e-collars on some people!
> ...


 :lol: For people! :wink: 
My 21yr old son is always asking me where all this positive crap was when he was growing up. LOL!


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Mike Schoonbrood said:
> 
> 
> > Selena van Leeuwen said:
> ...



YES. I just moved up a spot...


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

havent seen a show of his either but seems a bit that the reactions are too over the top...whats wrong with a prong? :roll:


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Can you read the "africhting"section on "hondenforum.nl", Hil? Read it and weep(sp?weap?)...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

While we are busy making our dogs better citizens, these monkeys are running amok telling as many as they can that we are cruel and inhuman. So many of these people do not even own pets, and are fueled by PETA and nutjobs like them.

We can laugh about it, but they will get their way, and then go on and get legislation against prongs, then trainng, then breeders. 

I used to think "No way any sane judge would let this stuff happen." Now I think differently. Kinda scary really, we all joke about it, but these people are dead serious, and have money backing them.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> While we are busy making our dogs better citizens, these monkeys are running amok telling as many as they can that we are cruel and inhuman. So many of these people do not even own pets, and are fueled by PETA and nutjobs like them.
> 
> We can laugh about it, but they will get their way, and then go on and get legislation against prongs, then trainng, then breeders.
> 
> I used to think "No way any sane judge would let this stuff happen." Now I think differently. Kinda scary really, we all joke about it, but these people are dead serious, and have money backing them.


It is, they are, and they do.

I know that not everyone thinks Cesar Millan is perfect, but
I'm grateful that people like him stick to it and become famous;
surely they convert more people than they outrage. 

I wish I had a ton of money so I could back the other side against
the PETA-crazed lobby.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

We are greatly outnumbered, mostly due to the masses believing that PETA is worth something.


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> Can you read the "africhting"section on "hondenforum.nl", Hil? Read it and weep(sp?weap?)...


yeah I can Seleen...any particulair topic in mind? or all of them? :wink:


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