# Biddable?



## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Biddable? I've heard and read biddable used in a vague and somewhat wide spectrum basis. What do you all constitute those characteristics on a specific basis?


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

A clear and unwavering desire to interact in cooperation with the handler, and less inclined to ignore a command, even in the highest level of drives.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> A clear and unwavering desire to interact in cooperation with the handler, and less inclined to ignore a command, even in the highest level of drives.


Nice job Daryl. I think that's an excellent explanation/definition of it.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Daryl Ehret said:


> A clear and unwavering desire to interact in cooperation with the handler, and less inclined to ignore a command, even in the highest level of drives.


Thank you; that is probably the best definition I have seen (heard)! =D>


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Can't add to that. That was one short thread. Nice Daryl.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Daryl Ehret said:


> A clear and unwavering desire to interact in cooperation with the handler, and less inclined to ignore a command, even in the highest level of drives.


Good explanation. How different things might be if another handler has the dog and dosent have the same training relatioship with the dog.
I here people griping about ware all the tough strong dogs are. Often times I think its the way there handled.
I just posted in another thread to a woman in our club "Sara" about her pup who has the lines and potential of being a very strong willed dog. Building a strong understanding training relationship between the two of them willl be very important.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

I've read dozens of studies on heritability of behavior characteristics, but I think this is the only one I've seen that measures "cooperation" (biddability). Don, you might find this one particularly interesting.
Heritability Estimates of Behaviors Associated With Hunting in Dogs.pdf

The study only includes members of five different breeds, each with significantly differing heritabilities. The definition for the purpose of this study, isn't quite as relevant as I'd like _"Dog maintains visual contact and adjusts its search to the route taken by the handler without showing signs of not cooperating to find game for the handler. Simple obedience (e.g., coming when called) is not expected of dogs in this test of natural ability."_ But the resulting heritability correlations are quite low, as the study concludes that _"Desire, cooperation, and tracking were not significantly correlated between midparent average and offspring._

So, I think as Mike suggests, relationship building is greatly important in respect to biddability. _How well we can build that relationship_, can be determined by our personal experience and preference in building that foundation, but also in more minor characteristics that the dog uses for channels of communication. For example, a dog that naturally maintains a lot of eye contact with the handler can be a good indication of strong biddable temperament, and whether or not that's the case, at least helps provide a clear channel for communication in the relationship building process.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Daryl,

That is the perfect definition and if there was one word tossed about over and over in the herding community that's it. A lot of times the stronger the dog or more intense his attraction to the sheep the less biddable. Its always been that quest to get both. Will have to print and check out your article.

Terrasita


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

*Sounds like we have a winner!* 

And for sheep work it is a must. You can't be running down the flock...yelling at the dog...and trying to get something done.

Biddable..."Do I have $2.00 on this cure dog, where? Half a dollar, where?" OOOPS!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Interesting so far Daryl. This type of thing I have to read in increments. I gather from the first parts, the study was done based on the natural ability test which is the first test offered in NAVHDA. Natural ability is somewhat of a misnomer in my mind because I don't know of anyone that doesn't train their dog to take the test. Kind of defeats the purpose of the test in my mind. I will absorb a few more pages after the dogs and myself are fed and the morning cleaning is done in the yards.
I have been a member of the Versatile Dog forum for 11 years so am familiar with how all this stuff is done. I do have to overcome some of the perceptions such as the dog isn't biddable if he leaves the country to hunt for himself. My favorite dogs hunt this way but they can be a mile away and they are still hunting for me or they wouldn't bark to announce they found game so I can find them. Different perceptions of those involved in different venues. I get rid of dogs that stay with me that they consider biddable. Anyway, will read some more later. Thanks for the link.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

My herding instructor has taken over Nickie's training down in Colorado since I left almost two months ago. I have to admit that the relationship is a bit different between the two of them at this point. Just the other day, they were out in the open graze, with about 50-60 head of livestock, while Nickie decided she didn't any longer need to honor the large boundaries to keep all the sheep together in a nice tight group. There's no catching her or stopping her when she doesn't want to be, and they waited for 45 minutes for her to quit circling the herd before she slowed down and decided it wasn't fun anymore.

I'm sure they'll build a better bond eventually, but it goes to show like the study above indicates, that heritability for the "biddable" characteristics are only part of a more complex trait, not ruled entirely by genetics, but also by environment.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Daryl,
> 
> That is the perfect definition and if there was one word tossed about over and over in the herding community that's it. A lot of times the stronger the dog or more intense his attraction to the sheep the less biddable. Its always been that quest to get both. Will have to print and check out your article.
> 
> Terrasita


The herding field is where I have heard 'biddable' so often, not so much in other dog sport venues. When it does come up in other sports, I have wondered how it applies. I am glad to know what others interpret or relate so this has been helpful.


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Daryl, thank you so much for contributing valuable constructive knowledge and the link in this thread.


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