# SCG-LBM Adapter.



## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Surface Conductor Grid Adapter for ecollars.

Has anyone on here used one? Are they any good? Any differences between the regular contact points and this? Any other, additional comments will be appreciated.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

I've replaced all the contact points on all my Ecollars with them. They seem to be slightly "hotter" than the contact points so I find myself using slightly lower levels of stim. 

Best price I've found is at www.donnyarnall.net


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

only one complaint i had about the one i bought was that the studs on my innotek collar were longer than the nuts that came with the device. as a result, when tightened down, the studs break off the top of the plastic cover on the nuts. choosing the path of least resistance, the current then just escapes out of the studs and doesn't even go through the "grid". i don't know if the studs on innotek collars are much longer than others, i just know they were too long. that situation could have been avoided if a couple of plastic washers were included...


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

This rig seems awesome to me. Have people fitted it onto a Dogtra 1700NCP? Any issues with contact point length? Tim, did you upfit your new collar with this?


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> This rig seems awesome to me. Have people fitted it onto a Dogtra 1700NCP? Any issues with contact point length? Tim, did you upfit your new collar with this?


to be honest, i have no idea where the thing is now. after the nuts broke, i took it off and then it went who knows where after that...


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > This rig seems awesome to me. Have people fitted it onto a Dogtra 1700NCP? Any issues with contact point length? Tim, did you upfit your new collar with this?
> ...


Ah, just wondering...Lou, can you clarify?

Andres, to your question, it seems great to me and dispersing out the contact points strikes me as a good way to keep the dog from getting collar-wise. A very informed guy told me that it also greatly extends the time you can keep a collar on the dog, no necrosis stuff. All good things. No direct experience with it, getting my first collar right now, but I'm gonna put it on this assuming it fits out to that Dogtra model.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Tim the newest versions come with replacement studs so that to-long ones don't break through the top of the acorn nuts. 

I've put mine onto a 1200NCP and the 1700NCP.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Excellent, thank you Lou. Very excited about getting the adapter.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Lou Castle said:


> Tim the newest versions come with replacement studs so that to-long ones don't break through the top of the acorn nuts.
> 
> I've put mine onto a 1200NCP and the 1700NCP.


mine came with replacement studs as well. problem was that the studs in the receiver on the innotek are not removable. again, a couple of plastic washers would have worked. knowing that, i'll probably try and find it and then find some plastic washers (i don't know if i'll need them for the dogtra)...


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Tim Martens said:


> mine came with replacement studs as well. problem was that the studs in the receiver on the innotek are not removable.


Well that sux. I don't know much about the Innoteks as evidenced by this exchange. LOL. 



Tim Martens said:


> (i don't know if i'll need them for the dogtra)...


I didn't need them for either the 1200 or the 1700 but it's probably best to test each collar to see if they're necessary.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Tim...cut the studs some.

I've had no problems with my adapter at all.

I wonder if people in Europe have begun to use them. psst...Selena?


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Tim...cut the studs some.
> 
> I've had no problems with my adapter at all.
> 
> I wonder if people in Europe have begun to use them. psst...Selena?


i didn't want to take the chance cutting them and then have the threads be screwed up which would render the collar almost useless. washers would work fine if i turn retarded and ever buy another innotek...


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## Derek Sanders (Jul 11, 2006)

Hi Tim,
I had to cut my Innotek also.
What I did was go to Orchard Supply and purchase a die that was the same size as the studs (6/32nds I think) it was only about $5.00, I threaded the die on first then cut the stud when you back the die off it cleans the threads right up.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Does anyone know if the Dogtra 200 model would have the same problem with the SCG on levels below 20 if you have a dog that's sensitive to the charging pulse?


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Kristen my guess would be yes. The SCG does nothing to change the stim level or eliminate the charging pulse.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> I wonder if people in Europe have begun to use them. psst...Selena?


´till your first post on this topic I had never heard of it....had to look at the link that mr. frost posted before I knew wth you were talking about.

Can´t see the advantages right now, to be honest. 
Our dogs don´t wear their e-collars all day (and aren´t used on every dog..only 1 at the moment), stim 10-20-30-40 on the dogtra 1200 is low enough..
to comparise Anne the first and only time I used an e-collar (old tritronic pro 50 heavier correction than the dogtra) gave a reaction on 4(out of 5)


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

The problem I have with the e-collar is that Cujo's neck fur is really thick, both I and my trainer who has fitted hundreds of e-collars, were both getting really frustrated because none of the e-collar brands we tried worked on Cujo right away, no matter how much we fuss with the contacts or wiggle it around or wet his fur or anything... the only way to get an e-collar to work on Cujo is to put it on an hour before I need it and let him run and run and run till it settles into his fur by itself.

Do you think these contact grids would help with this problem?


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Mike, yes.

Selena...advantages: you do not have to put the collar on as tight as with regular contacts...and so the dog (I think) thinks it's more of a regular collar; you don't have to mess with it to get good and reliable contact every time, because it doesn't need to be in direct contact with the skin; it doesn't poke into the dog at all; it's pretty cheap; and most important...IT LOOKS HIGH TECH. 8)

Also...if you get one, your competitors will be wondering what that thing is, and will want to imitate you. You'll be cool-er.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Selena...advantages: you do not have to put the collar on as tight as with regular contacts...and so the dog (I think) thinks it's more of a regular collar; you don't have to mess with it to get good and reliable contact every time, because it doesn't need to be in direct contact with the skin; it doesn't poke into the dog at all; it's pretty cheap; and most important...IT LOOKS HIGH TECH. 8)
> 
> I WANT him to know he´s wearing it..and that i´m the one correcting.. :twisted:
> i dont care about high tech...thats a guy thing i guess..cheap is always good..still dutch..
> ...


I dont want to be cool.. i want a good trained dog.. in one way or another..
we use different kind of correcting tools, not only e- stims, and change all kinds of correcting tools a lot or use it together. That´s the difference I think.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> That´s the difference I think.


Difference between what and what else?


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> > That´s the difference I think.
> 
> 
> Difference between what and what else?


not wearing the e-collar 24/7 and why i don´t see the advances for us yet.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

My dogs certainly don't wear the ecollar all day, nor do I use only an ecollar to correct...and I DEFINITELY want the dog to know the correction comes from me. This grid works well because there is more consistent CONTACT.

In other words, if you use an ecollar at all...you will have better results with this grid. It is an improvement in the delivery of the stim.

And it's cheap... :lol:


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Where did you get yours from, Andres?


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

www.k9ecollars.com


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

There are two versions of the SCG. One has a flat area around the brass points and the other has that same area raised, tapered and raised again. Photos of both of versions can be seen on Donn Yarnall's site at http://www.donnyarnall.net/store/SCG.htm. 

The flat version is the older one and there have been some problems with them.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

The one on that site looks different than this one. IS there a difference??


Edited: Nevermind. Lou just answered that question, I guess. :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

So I just got mine last week. Really neat though I wish that central post on mine wasn't so roughly finished (it's almost sharp). A few questions...

1. I hear a faint "Zzzzt!" (my best electronic noise impression) when I press for stim through the SCG. Inaudible to me on my Dogtra 1700NCP at lower levels, quiet at the highest, but still there. I figured this was electricity arcing into the SCG. Any thoughts on this? It definitely delivers a pop, just didn't know if this might cause problems when wet, etc. Lou, others, could use your input here.

2. What kind of fit are you all going for with the SCG installed?


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

According to a Dogtra dealer I asked, the SCG should be just as fine in/around water as the collar was before the SCG was put on. 


On a side note, I ordered one from the donnyarnall.net website on July 27th, and still have not gotten it, nor a response to my e-mail of about 2pm on Friday. :evil:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Kristen Cabe said:


> According to a Dogtra dealer I asked, the SCG should be just as fine in/around water as the collar was before the SCG was put on.
> 
> 
> On a side note, I ordered one from the donnyarnall.net website on July 27th, and still have not gotten it, nor a response to my e-mail of about 2pm on Friday. :evil:


I had the same problem. I think they were behind, I got a nice email of apology from them when I sent emails to all the addresses listed on their Paypal account. PM me if you want those emails.


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> I wish that central post on mine wasn't so roughly finished (it's almost sharp).


They all seem to be like that. Got a file handy? 



Woody Taylor said:


> I. I hear a faint "Zzzzt!" (my best electronic noise impression) when I press for stim through the SCG.


Didn't I tell you to lower your dosage on work days??? 



Woody Taylor said:


> Inaudible to me on my Dogtra 1700NCP at lower levels, quiet at the highest, but still there. I figured this was electricity arcing into the SCG.


It could be. If it really bothers you put some cotton in your ears. It doesn't affect the stim. LOL 



Woody Taylor said:


> just didn't know if this might cause problems when wet, etc. Lou, others, could use your input here.


Stop worrying and go train. No problem if it gets wet. 



Woody Taylor said:


> 2. What kind of fit are you all going for with the SCG installed?


It should be "snug." If you can grab the Ecollar "box" and move it "easily," it's too loose. If your dog starts to wheeze, it's too tight. Try in between those two levels of "snug."


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh, I'm ready for ya.... :lol:



Lou Castle said:


> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > I wish that central post on mine wasn't so roughly finished (it's almost sharp).
> ...


I have my Dremel warming up. Just wanted to ask. I am Murphy's Law in physical form, just wanted to make sure. It's quite sharp relative to anything else I've ever put on my dog. Not bad, just don't want a bad scratch. 



> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > I. I hear a faint "Zzzzt!" (my best electronic noise impression) when I press for stim through the SCG.
> ...


WORST time for me to lower my dosage. Although all my life lessons do boil down to various forms of escape training, though. 

I do have to admit interest in the grim fascination people have with ecollars. This is my first one. Everybody who sees it wants to get zapped...it's like this weird "I dont' want to look under the bed but I must" deal. Got one guy up to 80 for a bit, then he scared off the next round of people. Needless to say, that collar is joining me for poker/golf guys weekend in the Northwoods next week. This takes shaving off the eyebrows of the first one to pass out up a notch.



> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > Inaudible to me on my Dogtra 1700NCP at lower levels, quiet at the highest, but still there. I figured this was electricity arcing into the SCG.
> ...


Brutally newb question, I know, but I guess my concern was arcing, and if that was unique to my situation, as I don't want fried dog. Just baked.



> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > just didn't know if this might cause problems when wet, etc. Lou, others, could use your input here.
> ...


Cool.



> Woody Taylor said:
> 
> 
> > 2. What kind of fit are you all going for with the SCG installed?
> ...


Same with the toddler. Great!

FWIW, I will probably regret mentioning this, but I yanked the faux patent leather collar in lieu of a buckle one (much easier). Kind of hard to describe, but you can make a nice buckle collar that is quite robust with a cheapo nylon buckle collar, some velcro, some Monster Glue, and some patience for failure.

Thanks Lou!


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> I do have to admit interest in the grim fascination people have with ecollars. This is my first one. Everybody who sees it wants to get zapped...it's like this weird "I dont' want to look under the bed but I must" deal. Got one guy up to 80 for a bit, then he scared off the next round of people. Needless to say, that collar is joining me for poker/golf guys weekend in the Northwoods next week. This takes shaving off the eyebrows of the first one to pass out up a notch.


Do you play your "sports" with your "buddies" all dressed in shiny black rubber items, chains, clamps, etc.?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....hahahahaha!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Jeez, Woody...you ought to keep some things private... :lol:


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## Lou Castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> I have my Dremel warming up.


Be careful. Don't take off a lot of metal, just smooth it. 



Woody Taylor said:


> Everybody who sees it wants to get zapped...it's like this weird "I dont' want to look under the bed but I must" deal. Got one guy up to 80 for a bit, then he scared off the next round of people.


Want a fun time? Teach an Ecollar/Tactical Entry Class to a buncha SWAT/K-9 guys. At the end of the seminar add lots of beer to the already overflowing testosterone and add one Ecollar. "Let's see who can take the highest level the longest." Not me, let me tell you. 



Woody Taylor said:


> I don't want fried dog. Just baked.


Make mind medium-rare. 



Woody Taylor said:


> FWIW, I will probably regret mentioning this, but I yanked the faux patent leather collar in lieu of a buckle one (much easier). Kind of hard to describe, but you can make a nice buckle collar that is quite robust with a cheapo nylon buckle collar, some velcro, some Monster Glue, and some patience for failure.


You're not the first. Lots of people have replaced the plastic/fiberglass strap with leather or nylon ones. Some have used the nylon ones with the Fastex buckles so they get the proper tightness right all the time once they're found the right length. But some dogs' necks expand when they work, like a weightlifter getting a pump when he works arms. This can make the strap too tight and at the same time difficult to adjust. It may be right when you start but if you hear the dog having difficulty getting air be ready to loosen it one notch or more. 

Some people don't like the collar strap that comes with the units because they don't breath and that can cause problems with skin/hair that stay wet too long, especially for dogs that swim a lot.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Nothing quite like taking advantage of the male tendency to show off in group settings of folks...take Andres, for example. Quod erat demonstratum.

As much as I enjoy subtle and refined humor, my favorite practical joke memory from high school was in a health class when I dared a guy to let me take his blood pressure around his neck. Cuff on neck, a few quick puffs, face goes red...and DOWN he went like a sack of wet mice.

Twice he did this. It was totally worth the trouble I got into...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Nothing quite like taking advantage of the male tendency to show off in group settings of folks...take Andres, for example. Quod erat demonstratum.
> 
> As much as I enjoy subtle and refined humor, my favorite practical joke memory from high school was in a health class when I dared a guy to let me take his blood pressure around his neck. Cuff on neck, a few quick puffs, face goes red...and DOWN he went like a sack of wet mice.
> 
> Twice he did this. It was totally worth the trouble I got into...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Woody, you made my day with that one.......again! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Speaking of testosterone and ecollars, one of Adam's buddies (he's Air Force Security Forces - Adam's Army Military Police) was over here and saw mine on the charger and asked what it was. I told him and he said, "OOoh, can I try it?" I let him feel it on about level 20, because he was scared at first, but then he decided he wanted to see how bad 100 was. He put it on his arm, cranked the dial up to 100, and pushed the continuous button!  You could see the muscles in his arm contract, and he hollered, then started laughing, and DID IT AGAIN! TWICE more! :lol: :roll: 

I still haven't heard back from Donn's people about my order.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I know this is old thread but I am planning on using the e-collar as we have some offlead control issues to work out. 

How do I know to get the newest version (Lou's link is dead) and now that people have more experience with it - any issues with thick/long neck fur as my male has that "mane" of hair.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

It's actually unavailable right now. Maybe Lou can explain. I don't know all the details. 

The only issue I have with thick fur is that the collar needs to be just as tight with the SCG than without, whereas with dogs with short fur, it doesn't have to be that tight. Of course, with the SCG, there's a far lower chance of pressure necrosis because of the fact that it's basically flat, instead of being 2 probes, so the dog can wear it longer.


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