# Carlos and Nanda Litter 10-26-2009



## AJ Johnson (May 1, 2010)

Hey all,

Im getting a female from that litter she will be about 2 years old in October and am looking for feedback from anyone that is currently working a pup from that litter. I chatted with Mke about them and he informed me he only did the breeding once and did receive one Male back and explained the temperment of that specific pup and wanted to know if anyone else had any other information to add on their puppy from that litter. Im interested to know how they grew up what they are currently doing and how their drives and overall dispositon is. Thanks in advance. Any decoys that have worked any of these dogs please chime in. As a decoy myself I feel we know dogs temperments sometimes better than owners are willling to admit so please provide any insight as well. Thanks to all


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## AJ Johnson (May 1, 2010)

BTW for those wondering my question is asked because I feel you learn alot more on the genetics of the dog by canvasing the litter. I am thinking now on future pairings and different training that will potentially be used. Obviously alot is dependent on the individual dog but you cant overlook the entire litter as providing very valuable information on the raw dog you have in front of you. Hope that makes sense. Its 107 degrees in TX so while you cant train during the day you can definitely plan plan plan and plan from the comfort of the AC inside. LOL just curious to know how her siblings are doing and super excited to add her to my family. FYI I would have just edited the thread but for some reason couldnt do it.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Jody Butler has one, hes a member here and I think hes has also bred his female, As well James Mackey has a friend that has one too, hes also a member here.


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## Josh Smith (Jan 14, 2009)

I have a female from that litter. She is my hiking buddy/alarm system. Nanda attacked 3 of the puppies over a toy, killed two and serious injured the third (and that is why mike never did another breeding with her). My dog is that injured pup. Because of the head injury she received I think that could have effected her as well as this is my first dog (so I could have some hand in it). She has some definite nerve issues in that she can be fearful around unknown people and new situations. 

That said she is very physically healthy and has a ton of prey drive. I am able to use a tug, ball, stick, cloth etc to use as a reward and train her with. I can take a random stick and pitch it into the woods and she will search for it for an extended period of time without giving up. She has energy for days. 

Hope this helps. If you have any other questions ask.

Here are some pics.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Harry Keely said:


> Jody Butler has one, hes a member here and I think hes has also bred his female, As well James Mackey has a friend that has one too, hes also a member here.


 



Josh is the one I was referring to AJ, I guess that just leaves Jody for ya, sorry cant be more of help to ya, if you cant get him on here he does posting on pedigree database undr the username of razor something or another, you might be able to contact him that way. Good luck to ya.


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## AJ Johnson (May 1, 2010)

I know Jody has and bred his female Trista. Trista will be my new addition. Jody absolutely loves her so I have all the info I need from him LOL. He actually has said much of the same. She is a prey monkey loves to work and has crazy drive. 

Josh when you say nerve issues and that things scare her can you provide some examples. I know with this being your first dog it may be hard for you to elaborate but whatever you can provide would be great. One of the things that make these dogs so great are their nerves. It however is a gift and a curse all in the same. IT makes them very easlily stimulated and activated but when not harnessed and socialized can make them overly worrisome. Thanks for your insight and pictures. I remember seeing the pup when she was scratched and malled. She grew up beautifully. Have you done any type of bitework with her or do you stick to hiking etc.


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## Josh Smith (Jan 14, 2009)

No, I have not done any bitework with her. I have been training obedience with a club in Augusta and I would like to train her in some detection work for kicks. 

She is comfortable with a very small group of people (mostly those who have been around her since she was a puppy). She will initially show aggression towards strangers in our house and If I correct her and allow her time to adjust to them she usually shows avoidance. She has over the top reactions to strangers, other dogs, the vet and usually will have her tail tucked during these encounters. 

I socialized her extensively as a puppy with all types of people and different locations but still have issues. We have been working at training with teaching her to ignore these distractions. I find it hard to describe the behavior. James Mackay (who is one of the few people that she is comfortable around) might be able to describe it better. I tried to describe it to him for months and it never clicked till he witnessed the behavior first-hand. I will ask him to describe her.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Josh Smith said:


> No, I have not done any bitework with her. I have been training obedience with a club in Augusta and I would like to train her in some detection work for kicks.
> 
> She is comfortable with a very small group of people (mostly those who have been around her since she was a puppy). She will initially show aggression towards strangers in our house and If I correct her and allow her time to adjust to them she usually shows avoidance. She has over the top reactions to strangers, other dogs, the vet and usually will have her tail tucked during these encounters.
> 
> I socialized her extensively as a puppy with all types of people and different locations but still have issues. We have been working at training with teaching her to ignore these distractions. I find it hard to describe the behavior. James Mackay (who is one of the few people that she is comfortable around) might be able to describe it better. I tried to describe it to him for months and it never clicked till he witnessed the behavior first-hand. I will ask him to describe her.


She souds like a dog with bad nerves, no need to describe anything beyond that. I will happy to replace her for you if you'd like. Just let me know. The male that I got back here from that litter was a little too reactive also. I have a zero tolerance for thin nerves and will be glad to replace her with a puppy from another litter Josh.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

AJ Johnson said:


> I know Jody has and bred his female Trista. Trista will be my new addition. Jody absolutely loves her so I have all the info I need from him LOL. He actually has said much of the same. She is a prey monkey loves to work and has crazy drive.
> 
> Josh when you say nerve issues and that things scare her can you provide some examples. I know with this being your first dog it may be hard for you to elaborate but whatever you can provide would be great. One of the things that make these dogs so great are their nerves. It however is a gift and a curse all in the same. IT makes them very easlily stimulated and activated but when not harnessed and socialized can make them overly worrisome. Thanks for your insight and pictures. I remember seeing the pup when she was scratched and malled. She grew up beautifully. Have you done any type of bitework with her or do you stick to hiking etc.


Well I guess I am really of no help to ya then AJ:razz:, sorry but thats the only two that I know off fella, congrats on getting Trista too I guess are in order.

Maybe Mike can point you in the direction that you are looking for being the breeder, good luck to ya with Trista.


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## AJ Johnson (May 1, 2010)

Harry Keely said:


> Well I guess I am really of no help to ya then AJ:razz:, sorry but thats the only two that I know off fella, congrats on getting Trista too I guess are in order.
> 
> Maybe Mike can point you in the direction that you are looking for being the breeder, good luck to ya with Trista.



I talked to Mike. and he is always straight up just like he was in his response regarding the puppy replacement.

As for helping this is exactly what I wanted to know regarding littermates. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect from Trista but wanted to know a little more on what I should be looking towards when doing future pairings. Nerve obviously will be and should always be on the forefront of anyone's mind but in this case something to possibly improve. Trista had a litter and am interested to see how they develop as they get older. It will be at least 12 months before Trista is ever mated again so we will have plenty of time so see how those pups do. Thanks everyone for you input and thanks Mike for having a standup program that you back and continue to develop.


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

AJ Johnson said:


> As for helping this is exactly what I wanted to know regarding littermates. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect from Trista but wanted to know a little more on what I should be looking towards when doing future pairings. Nerve obviously will be and should always be on the forefront of anyone's mind but in this case something to possibly improve. Trista had a litter and am interested to see how they develop as they get older. It will be at least 12 months before Trista is ever mated again so we will have plenty of time so see how those pups do. Thanks everyone for you input and thanks Mike for having a standup program that you back and continue to develop.


*Yea she looks like a nice bitch from looking at her genetics, Nerve is a biggie AJ and is defently a up close and personal in your face isssue that needs to be adress if it came about. Cool that you are waiting a little bit to see what comes about before breeding although first time breedings of new pairs can be a little bit of a unkown even with excellent genetics involved. *


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## Ron Gnodde (Sep 1, 2009)

Bitch had gone nuts after being locked up in concrete forever never let out for anything but still got bred. No expert but a treatment like that doesn't benefit any workingdog.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Ron Gnodde said:


> Bitch had gone nuts after being locked up in concrete forever never let out for anything but still got bred. No expert but a treatment like that doesn't benefit any workingdog.


 She left the kennel when she was 7 weeks old Ron, She was never in her life on concrete. Josh picked her out of the litter from the puppy kennel. But thaks for trying to start shit again, I think it lets us all see just how you really operate.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Ron Gnodde said:


> Bitch had gone nuts after being locked up in concrete forever never let out for anything but still got bred. No expert but a treatment like that doesn't benefit any workingdog.


Maybe you were talking about Nanda in this repy and not the puppy. Nanda came in, got bred and was sold within a few months, she was worked until she was pregnant, and then put in the whelping kennel until the puppies were weaned, then was sold. I dont think that constitutes "forever", but you do seam to have a problem with reality and truth so maybe in your mind it does.
What I find interesting is that when you were here you kept your dogs in my "concrete dungeon" for a year and a half and then it was a great kennel in your own words, now that you are trying to sell dogs on your own, you say that my kennel is a shitty place.
I will be the first person to admit that the dogs did not get as much work then as they do now that you are gone. Stephane is not an alchoholic and actually helps me work the dogs everyday, unlike you.
But in any case why dont you and I just meet for lunch to discuss this and any other issues you seam to have with me, I'd REALLY like that!!


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## Josh Smith (Jan 14, 2009)

Just for the record when I traveled up to Mike's kennel to pick a puppy from the litter he gave me full disclosure. He told me what had happened to the pup and spent time letting me interact with the entire litter. I made the decision to pick this pup based on a variety of factors.

Mike has been a stand up guy in all of this. He has emailed me multiple times since I got the pup to check on her progress. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him and his dogs to anyone.


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Ron Gnodde said:


> Bitch had gone nuts after being locked up in concrete forever never let out for anything but still got bred. No expert but a treatment like that doesn't benefit any workingdog.


Sounds like drama to me.

Leaders in industry don't need to rip others downs to try to make themselves look better.

Mike needs not attack you or anyone else, it's obvious he has a good thing going.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

This topic has been gone over again and again. Both sides have had their say...again and again.
Drop it!


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## Josh Mueller (Sep 17, 2009)

I raised a pup out of Carlos X Nanda. I loved the pup. His environmental nerves were great as well as his being a very social dog and with true aggression even as a pup. 

That dog is now with the Delaware State Police. I am really a fan of Carlos and what he produces. Across the board in my opinion from the pups I have seen very consistent behaviors and traits. 

Just my opinion though.


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## AJ Johnson (May 1, 2010)

Josh Mueller said:


> I raised a pup out of Carlos X Nanda. I loved the pup. His environmental nerves were great as well as his being a very social dog and with true aggression even as a pup.
> 
> That dog is now with the Delaware State Police. I am really a fan of Carlos and what he produces. Across the board in my opinion from the pups I have seen very consistent behaviors and traits.
> 
> Just my opinion though.


 

Josh good to hear the pup is now on the job. Jody knows dogs well from his experience and with the exception of making some room he was going to keep Trista. I am excited that I have the opportunity to make her family. Cant wait for the weather to drop below the 107 of today and get to more training


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## kendell jones (Aug 26, 2009)

For the past couple weeks I've been kind of quietly reading all these posts back and forth between Ron and Josh and Mike about how dishonest Mike is and how poorly his business is run. So, I finally got a little sick of it and decided to chime in. I really didnt want to drag myself into the middle of it, but alas, the allure of the interwebs got to me.



Josh Mueller said:


> I raised a pup out of Carlos X Nanda.


Let's first talk about how this is a big lie. You didnt _raise _this puppy. We didnt even have the dog for a month. And in that time, how much did you actually do with him? Yes, I will admit, you did get him to jump up on the couch and the ottoman (gasp!), but you didn't do jack shit with the dog. You didn't take him anywhere and you didnt do any work with him. You do love to tell people that you raised this dog and how he's working with the Delaware State Police though. 

That being said, Tank (the Carlos x Nanda pup) was an awesome little dog. I had him at my training club for puppy classes, meetings, agility, etc - he was VERY, VERY social with people and other dogs. The dog had lots of drive, but was great in the house and was a very easy-going little dude. I can't say enough good things about the dog, but I also can't stress enough that you had nothing to do with any of them. 

I keep reading all these posts about how many dogs you've "raised" from LHK, so let's do a quick recap. Shall we? :-s

#1 - Endor x Luna. This is my dog, Gadda. You didn't raise her. You worked her on a puppy wedge twice. You *hated *her. And in all honesty, she hated you too, which I can't really hold against her. You were a complete dick to her. She was locked up in a crate any time you were home because you couldnt stand to be around her. It's funny though, I do remember you telling people what a great dog she was and name dropping "Mike Suttle" and _your _dog from LHK... Once again, you didnt do shit with her. Mainly, because she's not your dog. Never was. And thank god for that.

#2 - Arko x Djenna. This was a puppy we had for maybe two weeks...why so short? Well, if I recall correctly, Ron showed up with a puppy that you had agreed to take and "raise", but never mentioned it to me. Since it was being "raised" at my house, you'd think I would have been informed. Surprisingly (not), I wasn't. He was a drivey little bastard of a dog, but I was pissed he was there. Why? Because I didnt know he was coming and he was kind of an asshole. Good drive, good dog, just not my type of dog. Not to mention, we already had four dogs in a townhouse, but sure, let's get a puppy. Again, two weeks of you doing nothing with him obviously constitutes raising him. 

#3 - Carlos x Nana. Well, I think this one is pretty much covered. But its pretty much the same situation, Ron showed up with a puppy that you were going to "raise" (at my house). This time, I liked the dog so I took him places, socialized him, ran him through some obstacles, etc. He wasn't living with us for more than a month before he was sent to Delaware, so good job on raising another puppy.

#4 - Digit...once again, Ron showed up with a puppy (golly gee, a theme?) that had come from Mike and all of a sudden, you had gotten a puppy. Nevermind that you had two dogs of your own that you couldnt even take care of and didnt live with, so yes, you were obviously at a good point to get another dog. I believe it was about two or three days after you got Digit that I kicked you out, but that dog didn't stay long with you either. 

I dont know about anyone else, but having four dogs (three, since Gadda was never "yours" to begin with) that you had for a combined total of less than two months....well, that's not raising anything. That's borrowing a puppy to make yourself look important. And how many times during all of this did you tell people Mike needed you to raise his puppies? About a gazillion. How many times did you tell people that Mike had an exceptional program, clean kennels, world-class dogs and that you would hands-down get a dog from him any day because he was an honest businessman with a solid working dog program? About a gazillion and a half. And, how many times did you actually speak to Mike? Like twice. But you sure loved to tell everyone he was a "good friend" and that he needed your help at his seminars and taking care of his dogs. 

One thing does strike me as a little strange though...it seems you went from thinking LHK was the be-all and end-all of working dog kennels, to all of a sudden Mike doesn't clean his kennels, doesnt feed the dogs, they rot on concrete, etc. Its a little strange that you did a complete 180, since you hadnt been there in the time your mind suddenly changed. 

So, since everyone is on this big honesty kick about how Mike lies all the time, let me just bring up a few points for those who seem to think Josh is an honest man. 

-when you left and took Dora and Digit, it was never really mentioned that you left a rescue DS locked in my garage. Not crated, not kenneled, just locked in the garage. Didn't you know, dogs rot on concrete? And, locking a dog with severe separation anxiety in a garage by himself isn't a good idea. As such a good dog trainer, you'd think you'd know this, but apparently it took the dog putting his leg through a window for you to figure this out. Its okay though, the dog is dead now. And yes, this is the same dog that you sent to live with an elderly couple with no DS experience, who couldnt physically handle the dog and who tried several times to contact you to get the dog back, but every time there was some reason you couldnt get the dog. Remember...like your dad was in the hospital and was on the verge of death? (lie). Or how about the time you stepped on a board and a nail went through your foot, so you were in the hospital? (lie). 

-maybe we should get into Dora puppies. You know, Dora...the dog that got run out of Mike's training room? And then was "suggested" that she be spayed. Obviously, good idea to breed her. Kudos to that planned breeding. But wait, who did you breed her to? An eight-month old puppy, that you guys didnt own or have permission to breed to? Double bonus points for that one. \\/

I've been to Mike's kennel a few times and yes, for shame, the dogs do live on concrete! I tried to explain to him that having 60 police dogs run around would be a good idea, but for some reason, he didn't believe me. Weird, I know. There was ALWAYS dogs out when I was there - they were worked, they were played with, fed, cleaned, etc. Multiple dogs were worked EVERY day, the puppies were socialized, staked out, had rag work done, etc. The kennels were always clean, the training room was spotless. The dogs were well-fed and happy. 

About how Mike wanted to shoot Carlos. Yes, clearly he's in the business of killing dogs. That must be how he makes money. I saw Carlos every time I was down there. Did I ride him around like a pony and give him hugs? No, but he was fed, he was cleaned and he got attention. So all the shit about how Mike hated Carlos is just retarded. He certainly wasn't the easiest dog in the kennel, but to say that Mike was really going to shoot him? Come on, be serious. Even if he absolutely HATED the dog (which I can tell you with 100% certainty, he doesnt), it would just be bad business to shoot a dog that produces well. On top of that, Mike kind of likes dogs. Weird, I know. I've seen him wrestle, play, and (gasp!) even hug the dogs. I know, tough police dog trainers are only supposed to beat the dogs, but I guess Mike just doesnt know what he's doing, huh?

Personally, I wouldnt expect any less from you, but I do feel a little sorry for the people who got tricked into thinking you were an honest person. I could get into personal stories about pathological lying, but let's just stick to the dog thing.

I know you're really butt-hurt, but making up shit about Mike's business won't do you or Ron any good.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Oh great, now there's divorce or relationship break up drama added to it. This has turned into quite the Jerry Springer saga.

T


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## AJ Johnson (May 1, 2010)

I have looked to close the thread altogether or delete it and cant. 
I would appreicate if a Moderator would lock this up please. I did not post for the drama to be entered in it. Simple questions about a bitch Im thrilled to be getting that Mike just so happen to produce has turned into a bunch of BS that is not relative to the original topic. Thanks in advance Mod's


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, it does have some breeding value in terms of what the dogs/pedigrees produced, so hope its not locked. Wish there were more discussions of this type in terms of what popular stud dogs produce/produced. Some good posts/threads in this regard the last couple of days.


T


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## Josh Mueller (Sep 17, 2009)

kendell jones said:


> For the past couple weeks I've been kind of quietly reading all these posts back and forth between Ron and Josh and Mike about how dishonest Mike is and how poorly his business is run. So, I finally got a little sick of it and decided to chime in. I really didnt want to drag myself into the middle of it, but alas, the allure of the interwebs got to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah....Kendell is clearly my ex. I'm just not even going to respond to this. A well orchestrated attack though. I would expect nothing less. Completely classless


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## Kelly Godwin (Jul 25, 2011)

kendell jones said:


> For the past couple weeks I've been kind of quietly reading all these posts back and forth between Ron and Josh and Mike about how dishonest Mike is and how poorly his business is run. So, I finally got a little sick of it and decided to chime in. I really didnt want to drag myself into the middle of it, but alas, the allure of the interwebs got to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Well orchestrated attacks and classless posts ? where have I seen those lately?


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Where are all those new folks and different trainers that where going to start posting on this forum now that it's kinder and gentler ?


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## Justen Haynes (Dec 1, 2010)

Hey Kendell...that's pretty good blast off right there!!  Way to stick it to him girl...hahahahaha!!!


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## Chris Jones II (Mar 20, 2011)

Mike Suttle did the stand up thing that any responsible and honest breeder would do for a customer who ended up with a too reactive nerve bag dog. He offered to replace the dog. That's all anyone needs to know from all this BS. The guy stands behind his dogs and does right by his customers. Most "breeders" wouldn't do that. Most breeders would start whining and crying about how the dog was out of strong dogs so no way they will replace it or how the dog must have been pushed into being a nerve bag by the owner who petted him too much. Good for you Mike.


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## Kelly Godwin (Jul 25, 2011)

Chris Jones II said:


> Mike Suttle did the stand up thing that any responsible and honest breeder would do for a customer who ended up with a too reactive nerve bag dog. He offered to replace the dog. That's all anyone needs to know from all this BS. The guy stands behind his dogs and does right by his customers. Most "breeders" wouldn't do that. Most breeders would start whining and crying about how the dog was out of strong dogs so no way they will replace it or how the dog must have been pushed into being a nerve bag by the owner who petted him too much. Good for you Mike.


Agreed. 

I enjoy working with people like that and giving them my business. I will go out of my way and pay a premium for service like that. Whether it be in dogs, vehicles, or anything else in life - you can't beat someone willing to stand behind the product they sell.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Kelly Godwin said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I enjoy working with people like that and giving them my business. I will go out of my way and pay a premium for service like that. Whether it be in dogs, vehicles, or anything else in life - you can't beat someone willing to stand behind the product they sell.


As I agree with going out of your way to make sure someone is happy and satisfied when purchasing a puppy or young dog, sometimes you need to draw the line. The dog/pup may of left fine and developed all the issues one claims after living and training under someone else, whether it be good or bad training, they are young dogs, and mature and grow differently. I have told Mike in the past he was to giving at times to people who I think may have ruined there dogs. (Personal experience with some, not accusing anyone here for that).

But realistically, they are pups and mature different in different enviorments, whose to say or argue that a litter, bitch or stud is crap, unless the entire litter was like that and has been done before? What happens if identical breeding was done a year later and all superstars? Most people won't waste the time to try it again based on first litter, but do you develop and truly understand what you are doing? These are just thoughts, not accusations, but I see pups from many breedings that develop differently at all ages, however nerve is the number one thing and I look for and won't even tolerate bad nerve for a pet!

I honestly think people think they will try a pup, screw it up and get a new one cause the breeder may be like that, when in fact the pup wasn't the problem, the handler/trainer and time was!


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Jody Butler said:


> As I agree with going out of your way to make sure someone is happy and satisfied when purchasing a puppy or young dog, sometimes you need to draw the line. The dog/pup may of left fine and developed all the issues one claims after living and training under someone else, whether it be good or bad training, they are young dogs, and mature and grow differently. I have told Mike in the past he was to giving at times to people who I think may have ruined there dogs. (Personal experience with some, not accusing anyone here for that).
> 
> But realistically, they are pups and mature different in different enviorments, whose to say or argue that a litter, bitch or stud is crap, unless the entire litter was like that and has been done before? What happens if identical breeding was done a year later and all superstars? Most people won't waste the time to try it again based on first litter, but do you develop and truly understand what you are doing? These are just thoughts, not accusations, but I see pups from many breedings that develop differently at all ages, however nerve is the number one thing and I look for and won't even tolerate bad nerve for a pet!
> 
> I honestly think people think they will try a pup, screw it up and get a new one cause the breeder may be like that, when in fact the pup wasn't the problem, the handler/trainer and time was!


FWIW, this post has nothing to do with this litter, Carlos or anybody, its about the pups......Isn't that what is should be??


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

good gawd.......ive seen a number of dead people (some gross ones) that didnt make me cringe a fraction as much as reading that did....I think I even did the involuntary expression where my mouth opened and I made that look thats half growl, half smile, half I just sucked on a lemon 





kendell jones said:


> For the past couple weeks I've been kind of quietly reading all these posts back and forth between Ron and Josh and Mike about how dishonest Mike is and how poorly his business is run. So, I finally got a little sick of it and decided to chime in. I really didnt want to drag myself into the middle of it, but alas, the allure of the interwebs got to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

off the top of my head the only thing comparable I can think of is the famous phone call scene from 'Swingers'




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0PUrNwvvBk


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

Matt Grosch said:


> good gawd.......ive seen a number of dead people (some gross ones) that didnt make me cringe a fraction as much as reading that did....I think I even did the involuntary expression where my mouth opened and I made that look thats half growl, half smile, half I just sucked on a lemon


Matt, I don't know you man, but I'm just speaking gobally...

I really wish you didn't bump this thread. Josh is a good guy and I think this matters needs to just be done and over with.

PS: This is not an antagonistic post towards you or your post, I just think it's time to say enough is enough. For what it's worth...


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

@ Matt G.

You're a good man and thanks for the PM!!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

He got weed!! He got weed!!


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## Josh Mueller (Sep 17, 2009)

kendell jones said:


> For the past couple weeks I've been kind of quietly reading all these posts back and forth between Ron and Josh and Mike about how dishonest Mike is and how poorly his business is run. So, I finally got a little sick of it and decided to chime in. I really didnt want to drag myself into the middle of it, but alas, the allure of the interwebs got to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I wasn't going to respond to this thread but I feel I should really set the record straight here. Without getting into the drama of the girl and my relationship. I will certainly clarify quite a few things.

Endor x Luna. When I first went down to Logan Haus I spent a week there. While there I was given the opportunity to take and raise a puppy. Mike and Ron thought that this would be a good dog to take. While the girl and I were together she quickly became attached to her and it didn't take long for it to become "her" dog. Her first working dog. She did bring the dog out to club training for a while but then decided to pursue flyball, agility etc. Well to say I Hated the dog is not true. This was the girls first working dog and I will say that I did not like the way the dog was treated(sleeping in bed, general babying and not providing in my opinion proper foundation for a working dog). Yes I do believe that dogs need to be in crates when nobody is home or there is another dog that can potentially hurt them. I don't think you will fiind many instances where I clam ownership of her. She is a good dog for sure. Just not my type of dog.

Arko x Djenna. This was a dog that was sold to a client of Mikes. Upon arrival the dog had SEVERE nerve issues. I talked with both Mike and Ron and figured out that something must have happened on the flight as the dog was not like that at LHK. SO the main point of having him was to expose him and work out the environmental issues. After spending time with him and exposing him I figured the dog was well on his way to making a comeback. He was sent back to LHK and later sold to a police department. 

Carlos x Nanda. This was a replacement dog for the Arko x Djenna that the original client didn't want. Again the dog came in and was living with the girl and I. Shortly after I was contacted by a Handler from Delaware State Police.He was lookinng for a dog and had contacted me through Dutch Shepherd Rescue. The Handler came to Rochester and spent two days training here. I donated the pup to the department. When I did I made sure to inform him that the dog was from LHK and was trying to send Mike their business at the time. 

Hector x Hannah(Digit) I was contacted by Mike asking if I could raise a female for him. I was offered several pups and just asked to give me whatever they liked the best. Yes Ron delivered the pup. Yes we broke up shortly after. You seem to imply that there was shady business with Ron showing up with the pup :http: //psak9forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=865 this should clarify that. I returned the dog to LHK while I figured out what I was doing

Lets clarify Dex the Rescue Dutchie. Well if you consider fifty year old people with prior experience to be elderly then I guess. How old are you know 27? I guess that seems elderly to you. Yes Dex was terribly hard to place and went through three homes. When the girl and I split It was determined that Dex could stay at the house as we had just bought a new house with a 30x50 foot barn with almost an acre of fenced land. What is not being said is that the girl then placed the dog on her own. When that didn't work out I picked the dog up and ultimately had to have him euthanized....Yes that dog is dead...He died in my arms..I remember. I hope that clarifies that issue.

Dora; Well thegirl hates Dora and would do anything to discredit anything I have done with her. Maybe she would volunteer to test her and well get video. Everything stated is just plain False.

Do I really think Mike would shoot Carlos...well I think that has already been gone over a million times.

So in closing I can tell everyone this Yes the girl and I dated for two years, Yes we have been broken up for about two years. I don't feel the need to get into that DRAMA

I won't comment on her current relationship status at LHK. But clearly she has a vested interest in all of this other than being a "good samaritan" But yes she hates me because well I was a bit of a rabble rauser and a womanizer. 

Some of you may know her from pitbulltalk.com a forum she has also caused a bunch of drama on.

You may also know her as the former fundraising cooridnater for Dutch Shep rescue. Which lasted a short run after she did nothing but cause drama with the west coast director.

You may also know her as a moderator on PSA forum. Not that she has any involvement at all in PSA other than being in the "click" I do remember the personal vendetta against getting Hill banned all the time. 

Well so everyone can see the second side of the story.The insinuation that I am cruel or not caring to my animals. Well I have six years of experience as an SPCA Law Enforcement Officer in NY with plenty of letters of praise including ones from the university that the girl works for. All of which are viewable upon request.

Take it away Waylon;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNf25kitQ4


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## jeff gamber (Feb 15, 2010)

Now if there is anytime to lock a thread, now is the time...


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Josh, you begin by saying you won't go into the drama of the relationship then you throw in one little sentence about her relationship at LHK (more passive aggressive sh*t) and a bunch of sh*t about the internet...so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS6zJ7IsJkM&feature=related


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I believe in euthanasia. If it were ever justified, this thread needs to die. No need asking who did it, my name is on the bottom of the post.

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm just sorry we missed the O.P.'s post #22.


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