# Sign of weak nerves?



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

HI ALL,
I have two non-registered german shepherds that are for the most part just pets. I don't expect much from the female interms of protecting me but the male who is clear headed has had a live bite when i was foolishly agitating him with the help of my friend some years ago. The thin is when my dogs are barking at strangers most times their hairs are up which i have heard is a sign of weak nerves. I have seen some shutzhund dogs do thsame thind and they seemed like pretty confident dogs. Is having the hackles up always a sign of weak nerves?


----------



## Lance Dior

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> HI ALL,
> I have two non-registered german shepherds that are for the most part just pets. I don't expect much from the female interms of protecting me but the male who is clear headed has had a live bite when i was foolishly agitating him with the help of my friend some years ago. The thin is when my dogs are barking at strangers most times their hairs are up which i have heard is a sign of weak nerves. I have seen some shutzhund dogs do thsame thind and they seemed like pretty confident dogs. Is having the hackles up always a sign of weak nerves?


Hackling can come from a lot of different things. A lot of dogs hackle when they get overstimulated and are not nervous at all. I've seen sound dogs hackle in obedience when spun up very high in drive. 

I've also seen good dogs hackle at points during protection. Mainly during guarding. This can be a sign of a nervous dog, but to me it all depends on what he does with that nervousness. What if a dog halls balls into a situation that he knows scares him and fights very well? If he continues to feel nervous but feeds off this energy and loves to fight and engage should we call him courageous or say he has bad nerves?


----------



## Lance Dior

What about the dog with SUPER solid nerves that can't perceive a true threat until its likely too late? Is that of any benefit to the true working dog man? 

What about the dog who gets so spun into drive that he never sees threats (puts the blinders on) and blindly throws himself into dangerous situations with no regard for his own safety? Is this dog courageous or just crazy/stupid?

A little nerves can be a great thing. It really depends on the training and the rest of the dog's character


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Lance Dior said:


> What about the dog with SUPER solid nerves that can't perceive a true threat until its likely too late? Is that of any benefit to the true working dog man?
> 
> What about the dog who gets so spun into drive that he never sees threats (puts the blinders on) and blindly throws himself into dangerous situations with no regard for his own safety? Is this dog courageous or just crazy/stupid?
> 
> A little nerves can be a great thing. It really depends on the training and the rest of the dog's character


I like a dog that pulls guard when he hackles up. I find that dog devastatingly effective as a protection dog


----------



## Lance Dior

Thomas Barriano said:


> I like a dog that pulls guard when he hackles up. I find that dog devastatingly effective as a protection dog


I'm glad you agree Thomas!


----------



## Gillian Schuler

Our younger GSD "hackled" at first and the decoy asked us to check him out for pain, etc.

This was not the case and the dog has never shown it since. Albeit he has not had so many bite sessions but he likes to ddominate the scene.

We had to change decoys and his first H+ B in the hide was without barking - however, he was just waiting to have a nab at the decoy had he made a move. The second H + B was accompanied by barking. 

The very first bitework, my partner, Toni, just let him bite! As Alex afterwards said "Well, what he's got, he's got but a bit of help wouldn't go amiss :lol:"

He has a mean streak but is absolutely friendly with humans, great and small.


----------



## Butch Cappel

As Lance said "Hackling" can come from a lot of different things in a dog and automatically judging it a "nerve" issue is not really smart. 

First it is much more prevalent in adult females than males. It is also more likely to occur in males when they are younger, they lose the behavior as they grow. As two of the toughest dogs I owned, both with multiple street bites, were females that always hackled, I don't see it as an automatic sign of nerve problems. I do how ever think it is a useful maneuver for all smaller members of the species (females younger males) in case of a fight.

I know some will say that a dog is trying to scare away an opponent by displaying themselves as larger, But. They can also be going into the fight using all the psychological advantages they can. As most wolves tend to hackle before a fight I think it is more a psychological tool than a sign of cowardice.

Remember, when translating dog body language, you should never make a judgment on the indication of one body sign. Accurate Body language reading always requires at least two signs to be translated correctly. If hackling for example, occurs as the dog is standing square on all fours even with his head lowered in a glaring manner, as if preparing to stalk, it is not a sign of 'nerves'.

If however the dog is hackling with its tail tucked between its legs and clinging tightly to its own belly, its body weight is to the rear, then it might be nerves. But you must see the signal and then look for another corroborating body signal to get close to accurate. Hope that helps a little.


----------



## Ashley Campbell

I've seen my female GSD hackle up when she got into a fight with another dog. The other dog started the fight and she stood her ground, but every bit of hair on her back was standing, she also won the fight if you go by damage assessment. She will also hackle when someone knocks on the door, but races down right in front of it and barks at the same time. No tail tucking or anything like that, so I don't see it as a fear response. Just IMO though, I could certainly be wrong.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

My dog hackles up when he sees the sprinkler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e9C1HnrUAc


----------



## Candy Eggert

Gerry Grimwood said:


> My dog hackles up when he sees the sprinkler.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e9C1HnrUAc


He looks kind of wet..not hackly


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Lance Dior said:


> I'm glad you agree Thomas!


Yes Thomas this is a good dog you speak of. Any dog that pulls guard is a dog I'd like how bout you David?


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Gerry Grimwood said:


> My dog hackles up when he sees the sprinkler.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e9C1HnrUAc


I see wet and fat


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Lance Dior said:


> What about the dog with SUPER solid nerves that can't perceive a true threat until its likely too late? Is that of any benefit to the true working dog man?
> 
> What about the dog who gets so spun into drive that he never sees threats (puts the blinders on) and blindly throws himself into dangerous situations with no regard for his own safety? Is this dog courageous or just crazy/stupid?
> 
> A little nerves can be a great thing. It really depends on the training and the rest of the dog's character


Lance who do you work dogs with and in what area? Just curious because you sound like a former board member.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Mike Scheiber said:


> I see wet and fat


He's 26.5 at the shoulder and 78 pounds, if that's fat in your books then what does that hock walker you have weigh ??


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Gerry Grimwood said:


> My dog hackles up when he sees the sprinkler.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e9C1HnrUAc


Those sprinklers suck Gerry, hard to find a well built one anymore. That dog will kill that one before the summers over


----------



## James Downey

I think Hackles do a show a certain amount of insecurity to a stimulus. That's what Hackles are, a response to stress, a defense mechinism to a precieved threat. Most dogs that I have seen that work with raised hackles are generally of weak nerve. But I do not think that's a hard and fast rule. I have seen one dog that worked at times with raised hackles, win 2 national level comps in the US and place 5 th in the world. 

And I think through selective breeding sometimes these things can just show up due to excitement...But again that stuff seems to be an anomoly.


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Gerry Grimwood said:


> He's 26.5 at the shoulder and 78 pounds, if that's fat in your books then what does that hock walker you have weigh ??


Hock walker what the.......


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

The male i made mention of is 8 years old now with no formal training, not even in obedience. His hackles are always up once there are people knocking the door[ most of the time teasing the dog], he does this with his tail wagging really fast. He is good with people and will ignore people in the house as long as they come inside while he's in the cage, then he can be released. Is his neutral behaviour to non-aggressive strangers an indication it is not a nerve issue. His first and only bite was on a person that wasn't acting scared and he was really pulling forward. Sorry for the long post.


----------



## James Downey

I think the dogs comfort level in one situation is not an indication of comfort in another. The hackles plus tail wagging...could mean a myriad of things. One being he's nervous, hackles are classicaly conditioned biological response to certain stressors and the tail wagging could be a sign he trying to show he's friendly and does not want a fight. or it could mean he's taking a defensive posture and hopes a fight insues. 

The dog's 8 years old. with no training on him. I do not see the point of even caring if he is a capable of work....you'd get what, maybe 2 years if your luck out of him training. You have just enough time to get the dog ready for a trial. but not a whole of extra time to trial.

And actually I think the Knocking on the door...without being able to see what's on the other side of the door, stimulates the dog. He does not know that knocking means people are on the other side. even when you answer and let them in....He's already excited and highly stimulated. It maybe hard for him to bring that back down after he gets up....really man, It's so hard to tell you what's going over the internet. I mean we could see the dog in person, and still make an inaccurate assement of the behavior. Doing it online almost guarntees that we have too little information to know what the dog is doing.

Like I said. It's a moot point, the dog is approaching the end of a working career and he has no training on him. By the time you get him trained, his body will be to old to work.


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

Sir,
I appreciate your comments. I am a 'newbie' with protection dogs. I and my family have been pretty confident of the dog, the biting incident made me assume he was an 'ass kicker' so to say. Like you said the internet is not the best place to make an assesment, the problem is its all i've got for now. Anyway i appreciate your input and its not a waste cos i'll have many more dogs.

Kindest regards,

Tobi.


----------



## James Downey

O,

What r your plans for training?


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

Sir,
To be honest all i can do know is online research cos i'm in school right now and have a hectic schedule. Also i'm a foreigner here[thailand], and i haven't seen a good working line kennel or dog club to get a dog from. I left my dogs in Nigeria.
THANKS FOR ASKING!!


----------



## James Downey

First, Stop calling me Sir....I work for a living. 

And next, Sawatdee Krub.

as in your plans. What would like to do with your dog? What's your goal? sport? PPD? 

I guess I am trying to figure out why you care if your 8 year old, untrained dog has a set....and what you want to do with him.


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

You are too kind,
I plan to do PPD and police style training mostly. I was asking about my 8year old cos i think we were too confident of his abilities.

Khob khun maak kap
Do you speak thai?


----------



## James Downey

Nit Noi,


I got ya on the dog. yeah we trend to give the dog to much credit and then other times we do not give enough.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Mike Scheiber said:


> I see wet and fat


Man that bugs the shit outa me :lol: 

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac13/ggrimwood/Phatt.jpg


----------



## Tyree Johnson

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Man that bugs the shit outa me :lol:
> 
> http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac13/ggrimwood/Phatt.jpg



looks good to me .... i guess that does still bother you! lol


----------



## Mike Scheiber

Gerry Grimwood said:


> My dog hackles up when he sees the sprinkler.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e9C1HnrUAc





Gerry Grimwood said:


> Man that bugs the shit outa me :lol:
> 
> http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac13/ggrimwood/Phatt.jpg


Geting closer couple more weeks "diet and exercise" get some mussel definition and a wast line going I like to see the out line of a couple of ribs.
next pic lets have a look at the dog broad side stackem up a little maybe


----------



## jack van strien

Tobi,
Where are you in Thailand?


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

HI,
I live in chumphon province now.You live in thailand?


----------

