# It's confirmed!



## Don Turnipseed

I will be getting a male pup out of New Hampshire to freshen up the lines. The sire, Danny, expired about 10 years ago and was supposed to be a heck of a dog. Here is his info.

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/102291/Danny-von-Thekla


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## Ashley Campbell

Don Turnipseed said:


> I will be getting a male pup out of New Hampshire to freshen up the lines. The sire, Danny, expired about 10 years ago and was supposed to be a heck of a dog. Here is his info.
> 
> http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/102291/Danny-von-Thekla


Nice, I have to ask, when I looked at the pedigree, what does (AT) mean, or is it the obvious of Airedale Terrier?


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## Don Turnipseed

Ashley, I think it is Airedale Terrier. I wish they would put the stats in lbs and in. If I remember right :grin: a kilo is 2.2lbs so that puts the dog at about 72 lbs. Have to figure the height later. I figured the best way if I am adding new genetics is a foreign dog. It may be interesting because this makes one more male than I have yards. What does the A2 mean on the health?


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## Ashley Campbell

Don Turnipseed said:


> Ashley, I think it is Airedale Terrier. I wish they would put the stats in lbs and in. If I remember right :grin: a kilo is 2.2lbs so that puts the dog at about 72 lbs. Have to figure the height later. I figured the best way if I am adding new genetics is a foreign dog. It may be interesting because this makes one more male than I have yards. What does the A2 mean on the health?


Don, I'm pretty sure that's the international standard for a hip score - meaning non-dysplasic. OFA score would be - GOOD
http://www.rathleague.com/Hip%20Score%20table.htm


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## Jeff Threadgill

Congrats Don!


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## Candy Eggert

Congrats Don ;-) What are you hoping this new pup will bring to the table? And don't say Jack Daniels either  LOL


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## susan tuck

Congratulations! Look forward to hearing about this guy.


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## will fernandez

nice..adding a little sport to the lines.


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## Harry Keely

Congrats Don on your new addition, I hope he is what you looking for.


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## Bob Scott

Don, what did you base your selection on? Is this from hunting lines or sport lines?


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## Don Turnipseed

Thanks everyone.


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## Lee H Sternberg

Don Turnipseed said:


> Ashley, I think it is Airedale Terrier. I wish they would put the stats in lbs and in. If I remember right :grin: a kilo is 2.2lbs so that puts the dog at about 72 lbs. Have to figure the height later. I figured the best way if I am adding new genetics is a foreign dog. It may be interesting because this makes one more male than I have yards. What does the A2 mean on the health?


Hey Don, I wonder how you can remember the kilo so well. It's a number firmly implanted in my brain too.\\/:lol:


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## Don Turnipseed

Bob Scott said:


> Don, what did you base your selection on? Is this from hunting lines or sport lines?


What did I base the selection on? Good question Bob. Largely is was based on the fact that you probably can't find a common ancester unless you go back to the beginning of dales. Danny was supposed to be a strong dog, I would rather start with something rather than a week dog. Intuition. I have been looking at the dales being bred here today and have just never had a comfortable feeling about them. When I heard about this breeding Stew was doing, I was totally comfortable. The sire being a SCH III had nothing to do with anything. The only thing that plays with my head a tad is that I suspect he is maybe sharper than I would like. I know where some of the offspring are and they are strong dogs but maybe a tad sharper. I can live with that moreso than a weak dog. What does the dog bring to the table? Strong genes, nothing more. There is a lot up in the air. I may just sell him after he breeds a few females. I may keep him if he throws great pups but, the harsh reality is I need some fresh blood for my own line. A lot depends on the overall temperament. Maybe I'll just fall in love with him but I wouldn't hold my breath. He will be the full outtcross that I have had here since I started. Honestly, I haven't thought that far ahead and I can think of a lot of pros having to do with keeping him. I could sell sport dogs since he has a title on his fathers side!!! LOL


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## Don Turnipseed

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Hey Don, I wonder how you can remember the kilo so well. It's a number firmly implanted in my brain too.\\/:lol:


Ya know Lee, I am not sure why I know that. LOL I know there is a reason but, I seem to have forgotten a lot about the early years. Go figure. LOL


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## Lee H Sternberg

Don Turnipseed said:


> Ya know Lee, I am not sure why I know that. LOL I know there is a reason but, I seem to have forgotten a lot about the early years. Go figure. LOL


 I caught that kilo memory right away. I think it went right over some of these young kid's heads.#-o:grin:


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## Ashley Campbell

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I caught that kilo memory right away. I think it went right over some of these young kid's heads.#-o:grin:


I think you're right - I use google to do my metric to US conversions - not only because I am lazy like that and terrible at math, but I don't think I ever learned that in school. If I did, that memory was probably pushed out with other more useful ones.


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## Joby Becker

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I caught that kilo memory right away. I think it went right over some of these young kid's heads.#-o:grin:


from the coke dealing days in the eighties  just kidding DON


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## Don Turnipseed

Well, I had time to look at the pedigree info. What is VPG III, IPO III, AD. 

I see one thing that really isn't setting well. It shows the dog was born Dec, 1992. If he dog has been dead for 10 years, that means he died at 7/8 years old. That is not setting well since mine average 12 to 14 years old. Doesn't really matter how talented a dog is if he is going to expire at 7 years old. Great hips don't count for much either if they don't have time to wear them out. Maybe he got run over but I doubt it. Cancer is going to be a problem for me. I am supposed to call Stew tonight so maybe I can get some answers.


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## Alan Fielding

Don - VPG3, IPO3 are different names for Schutzhund titles (SchH3). "AD" is the 20 kilometre run within the Schutzhund program.


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## Don Turnipseed

Alan Fielding said:


> Don - VPG3, IPO3 are different names for Schutzhund titles (SchH3). "AD" is the 20 kilometre run within the Schutzhund program.


That's cool. Thanks Alan.


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## leslie cassian

So why the decision to outcross now after so many generations of your lines? 

Just curious.


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## Don Turnipseed

leslie cassian said:


> So why the decision to outcross now after so many generations of your lines?
> 
> Just curious.


Just something you have top do accasionally when breeding this tightly Leslie. I have one 10th gen bitch which is bred back to her grandfather and the pups are showing white feet which I havent seen hardly any o0f since the first few generations and which came from the show lines. That cross is noticeably smaller also. Everytime they have been tightened up it basically doubles up on the original showline genetics both top and bottom. They may be generations back there but when every single dog is the original 2 it still eventually overpowers things in my mind. That cross has more energy overall than any. Litter size is fluctuating also. Believe me I try to avoid this but, at some point it becomes necessary. I have very few outcrosses in all these generations and most were in the beginning. I finally realized to get the conmsistency, I was going to have to quit adding new genetics. I have several 10th and 11th gen males here that when paired up with the new dogs offspring, which will be 50% outs, these males should just about overide anything and produce about the same pups. The problem is. Got to keep this pup a year before breeding, from the time of whelp, I have to keep the offspring for2 years before taking them back to my males. Then to know for sure, I am going to have to see the offspring several years down the road. Hell, that puts me a about 70, I may be dead before this gets ironed out. LOL I will be talking to the breeder shortly because I need to know why Danny only made 7/8 years old. I don't care how strong the other aspects of the dog are, I won't breed a dog in here that only has a life expectancy of 1/2 of my dogs. I culled every weak dog ruthlessly for years to get dogs that were healthy enough to live long lives without vet care. No way I will back up on that at this point. Maybe he got run over.. I am hoping Stew has something of a history on the sibs to this dog and knowing him he will.


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## Don Turnipseed

Just talked to Stew. Danny was still doing sportwork when he was 9 and died in 2003. Others in the litter were 14 when passing. He said it is a pretty long lived line. I feel better about that. LOL He also assured me that the pups are never on a slick floor while he has them.


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## Gerry Grimwood

leslie cassian said:


> So why the decision to outcross now after so many generations of your lines?
> 
> Just curious.


When the noses start to pop up on the pasterns, time to loosen up :razz:


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## Don Turnipseed

Seems the acquisition of this new pup is creating some interest in the dale world. Here is one of the emails I received. People are already trying to figure how they are going to mesh and it will be a year(maybe) before I even decide who to breed him to.

"Don this will be an interesting breeding experiment. Two sets of tight lines crossed that as has been said, apart for more than 50 and probably closer to 70 plus years.
The German dog you are getting is from old East German working lines and my experience (Rowdy Mack Brisco Grace Arthus Dakota) is that they will do(herd , guard etc) what you ask with a lot of enthusiasm and show strong hunt drive. One note of caution is some of the above mentioned boys can be real dog dominant and this is something in your own line, they will need proper homes."


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## Don Turnipseed

I got to thinking after that last post about how some are jumping the gun with this cross. Later this morning as I was going to town, I realised this pup, at 4 weeks, is already a month old. He will be over 2 mo when I get him. Now as fast as time is flying, 5 or 6 mo with go by in a heart beat so now may not be too soon to think about it. I have 7 bitches that I will eventually put this East German dog over, but probably just two to three at first. He comes from a whole background of proven protection dogs and the German side. He comes from the best proven hunting(and most other things) lines on the US side. I will breed him when he is ready, say April or May. The F1's should be some strong SOB's since the breeding on both sides is tight. I am planning on placing some in working homes. Later on down the road, I may put the German dog back over one of his pups and one of my dogs over one for a comparison. Anyone have any thoughts? I am looking for the new genes so the age of the pup is inmaterial, but, may as well put some of the pups where I will get the most mileage. Personally, for what I do, I think I need to put my males back over his offspring....but maybe not for protection work.


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## Joby Becker

Don Turnipseed said:


> I got to thinking after that last post about how some are jumping the gun with this cross. Later this morning as I was going to town, I realised this pup, at 4 weeks, is already a month old. He will be over 2 mo when I get him. Now as fast as time is flying, 5 or 6 mo with go by in a heart beat so now may not be too soon to think about it. I have 7 bitches that I will eventually put this East German dog over, but probably just two to three at first. He comes from a whole background of proven protection dogs and the German side. He comes from the best proven hunting(and most other things) lines on the US side. I will breed him when he is ready, say April or May. The F1's should be some strong SOB's since the breeding on both sides is tight. I am planning on placing some in working homes. Later on down the road, I may put the German dog back over one of his pups and one of my dogs over one for a comparison. Anyone have any thoughts? I am looking for the new genes so the age of the pup is inmaterial, but, may as well put some of the pups where I will get the most mileage. Personally, for what I do, I think I need to put my males back over his offspring....but maybe not for protection work.


Don, you are NOT getting any younger...I recommend (if this IS your choice) early crosses BOTH ways ASAP..might be dead if you play around with decisions...


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Don Turnipseed said:


> Seems the acquisition of this new pup is creating some interest in the dale world. Here is one of the emails I received. People are already trying to figure how they are going to mesh and it will be a year(maybe) before I even decide who to breed him to.
> 
> "Don this will be an interesting breeding experiment. Two sets of tight lines crossed that as has been said, apart for more than 50 and probably closer to 70 plus years.
> The German dog you are getting is from old East German working lines and my experience (Rowdy Mack Brisco Grace Arthus Dakota) is that they will do(herd , guard etc) what you ask with a lot of enthusiasm and show strong hunt drive. One note of caution is some of the above mentioned boys can be real dog dominant and this is something in your own line, they will need proper homes."


 
I was wondering if there was any herding in their history.

Terrasita


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## Don Turnipseed

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I was wondering if there was any herding in their history.
> 
> Terrasita


Yes there is T. I will see if I can find some of the pictures on my board. I think two of the dogs mentioned in that post are on a cattle ranch in Colo.


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## Don Turnipseed

Joby Becker said:


> Don, you are NOT getting any younger...I recommend (if this IS your choice) early crosses BOTH ways ASAP..might be dead if you play around with decisions...


Tell me about it. I have no problem thinking on the run...it's the run that is tough. It may be aways down the road Joby but my mind is working overtime already. I figure at most, a year to get this dog bred to a few bitches. At least 18 mo from when they hit the ground before I can breed them. Then, it's whatever it takes to see what I got to compare. I will be past eligable for Medicare if it still exists by then....and from what I see, I won't hold my breath on that. 

This is an opportunity for someone also. Look at the pluses. The High Country side is outliving the breed standard without vet care. Big plus right there. The German side, most go 14 years, probably with vet care so they have to be damned strong to make 14 years. Both sides were tightly bred for a purpose not just to produce pups. Both sides already went through serious culling for years to get where they are at. These are just a few of the pluses and why I was so excited when Stew called me and told me about them. There is simply no hobby breeding in either background. That in itself is a hard thing to find these days in a lot of the breeds.


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## Joby Becker

Don Turnipseed said:


> Tell me about it. I have no problem thinking on the run...it's the run that is tough. It may be aways down the road Joby but my mind is working overtime already. I figure at most, a year to get this dog bred to a few bitches. At least 18 mo from when they hit the ground before I can breed them. Then, it's whatever it takes to see what I got to compare. I will be past eligable for Medicare if it still exists by then....and from what I see, I won't hold my breath on that.
> 
> This is an opportunity for someone also. Look at the pluses. The High Country side is outliving the breed standard without vet care. Big plus right there. The German side, most go 14 years, probably with vet care so they have to be damned strong to make 14 years. Both sides were tightly bred for a purpose not just to produce pups. Both sides already went through serious culling for years to get where they are at. These are just a few of the pluses and why I was so excited when Stew called me and told me about them. There is simply no hobby breeding in either background. That in itself is a hard thing to find these days in a lot of the breeds.


How many "vets in training" have you consulted?, I feel your experience is lacking in making breeding decisions on your 25 yr+ lines...and I hate the fact that you let the mother of the pups care for the pups for the first month, you know it has been proven that dogs cannot survive without human interaction within the first month. I'm on the fence...the MOM..or DON.....hmmmmm....the bitch at least is probably sane.. and not drinking


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## Candy Eggert

Don Turnipseed said:


> I got to thinking after that last post about how some are jumping the gun with this cross. Later this morning as I was going to town, I realised this pup, at 4 weeks, is already a month old. He will be over 2 mo when I get him. Now as fast as time is flying, 5 or 6 mo with go by in a heart beat so now may not be too soon to think about it. I have 7 bitches that I will eventually put this East German dog over, but probably just two to three at first. He comes from a whole background of proven protection dogs and the German side. He comes from the best proven hunting(and most other things) lines on the US side. I will breed him when he is ready, say April or May. The F1's should be some strong SOB's since the breeding on both sides is tight. I am planning on placing some in working homes. Later on down the road, I may put the German dog back over one of his pups and one of my dogs over one for a comparison. Anyone have any thoughts? I am looking for the new genes so the age of the pup is inmaterial, but, may as well put some of the pups where I will get the most mileage. Personally, for what I do, I think I need to put my males back over his offspring....but maybe not for protection work.


Don why not a "dual sired" litter with both males to one of your females?! You'd need to DNA all the pups and parents but it is accepted by AKC.


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## Don Turnipseed

LOL, come on Candy, I am not paying to have a whole litter DNA'ed. I can see what I want with sisters. Besides, I need to breed the German dog to my present females and the F1 offspring is what I need to go back to my males with


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## Joby Becker

Candy Eggert said:


> Don why not a "dual sired" litter with both males to one of your females?! You'd need to DNA all the pups and parents but it is accepted by AKC.


with all the DNA testing..I currently am among the DUAL sired...crowd for breeding..(for others, reluctantly)...but my dumb GF (business partner) is NOT in agreement....otherwise. i would've bred to 3 studs...instead of just Carlos..


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## Candy Eggert

Don Turnipseed said:


> LOL, come on Candy, I am not paying to have a whole litter DNA'ed. I can see what I want with sisters. Besides, I need to breed the German dog to my present females and the F1 offspring is what I need to go back to my males with


It was a 'thought" Don ;-)~ But I forgot you have a whole string of relateds hanging out  But it is a vivable and valuable option for others. Ok, maybe a little expensive too 

@ Joby I would have done it! I think it's a great idea.


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## Don Turnipseed

It's also something I hadn't thought about Candy. Always good to consider all the options.


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## Don Turnipseed

T, here are some of the pictures I found of Mack and Rowdy. A Ranch hand ran over Mack and killed him so Jim bought Rowdy and he is just taking move naturally. This isn't AKC herding. Both are East German dogs and related to Danny I am pretty sure since they came from the same breeder.

Rowdy








Rowdy








Rowdy








Mac


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## Don Turnipseed

I talked to Stew the other day and he still has 2 males available. Not that anyone would want an airedale. As an aside, Stew keeps his pups off of any slick surfaces when young. :wink: I did ask to be sure.


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## Carol Boche

Don Turnipseed said:


> I talked to Stew the other day and he still has 2 males available. Not that anyone would want an airedale. As an aside, Stew keeps his pups off of any slick surfaces when young. :wink: I did ask to be sure.


When I finally do get an Airedale, it will most definitely be from you Don.....no question there a'tall. :mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## Don Turnipseed

Carol Boche said:


> When I finally do get an Airedale, it will most definitely be from you Don.....no question there a'tall. :mrgreen::mrgreen:


Aw, Carol. you can't get one of my airedales till you get rid of that Buko dog. My dogs don't tolerate other dominate dogs. You know that.


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## Don Turnipseed

This guy get's a pup. The ones pictured are dale/ DDR Bouvier. Second gen.









wild bunch stagecoach mary on dawn patrol



















after milking, ms zulu served breakfast on the balcony this morning










this climb was a lot more difficult than it looks









































































once again, the mighty wild bunch hondo got whooped by his little sister

she's more drivey, he's more tractable, & they compliment each other nicely
































































the trip down was a lot faster than the trip up










the position of the pan above & below gives some idea of just how unstable my wall feels beneath their paws



















wild bunch stagecoach mary, 111 days old

wild bunch hondo, 141 days old


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## Carol Boche

Don Turnipseed said:


> Aw, Carol. you can't get one of my airedales till you get rid of that Buko dog. My dogs don't tolerate other dominate dogs. You know that.


HA HA...I don't have Buko, Jeff is not done torturing him yet..LOL (kidding Jeff)...or do you mean Ash(hole)?


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## Don Turnipseed

Oh, I thought you had Buko.LOL


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## Carol Boche

Don Turnipseed said:


> Oh, I thought you had Buko.LOL


LOL

Would love to give him a retirement home. He can lounge on the couch and eat cookies with me. :grin::grin:

Anyway, sorry to go off topic....back to Airedales...ha ha


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Buko is not at your house ? I guess I better get to looking.


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## Don Turnipseed

Pictured here is Brisco, Another DDR dale. SchIII, PSA I, Master Retriever, Master Flusher. This dog is hunting every weekend during the season.


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## Don Turnipseed

I am going to give the breeder of the crossed Airedale/Bouv pups one of these F1 pups because it is a passion with him. I like that. He works with them from the get go. I will have others to get into bitework that will go to select persons simply for the shipping. You have seen the photos of the East German dales. Danny's pedigree is at the beginning of this thread. The beauty of this cross is this DDR linhe is being crossed with the top US hunting line that is bred for dangerous game but has proven themselves in just abouit everything. Can't get much better than that.


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## Tony McCallum

Gday Don, this should be an interesting experiment, but when l bring in an outside dog l worry more about "IF" l will breed it , before the what to breed it to ever starts. If you find this pup does not have a temperament , or the instincts you like , will you still go ahead with some breedings to see how these lines mesh ?
regards Tony


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## Terrasita Cuffie

The guy that is doing the bouv/dale crosses has appeared on other lists. I've always been curious---Why???? What does the dale add that the bouv doesn't have and vice versa to justify the cross and how does he intend to maintain it. With the designer stuff, F1 has been fine but on down the line, negative results. 

T


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## Don Turnipseed

Tony McCallum said:


> Gday Don, this should be an interesting experiment, but when l bring in an outside dog l worry more about "IF" l will breed it , before the what to breed it to ever starts. If you find this pup does not have a temperament , or the instincts you like , will you still go ahead with some breedings to see how these lines mesh ?
> regards Tony


Gday to you Tony. I have thought about that for the last few years of watching for something I liked. Stew emailed me and told me about these and it was a done deal. I will breed the dog but maybe to fewer, select females. I already think I know what I am not crazy about but, it isn't a deal breaker. All the pictured DDR dales I have pictured have come through Stew I believe. I know what, kind of dogs he has and I like them. What I am not crazy about.....they tend to be a more serious dog. Mine are trickster type dogs that love screwing with you for the fun of it.....until they have game in front of them. I have been around a couple of the dogs and see nothing I can't live with. As the previously posted email I was sent pointed out...some of the males are extremely dog dominate. That is what I am used to and what my yard is set up for. To keep extremely dominate males at least and arms length from each other. That is one thing I do not want to loose and why, in part, I am really glad Stew let me know about the pups. A good part of why the dogs I have pictured do so well in so many things is because of that confidence level.


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## Don Turnipseed

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> The guy that is doing the bouv/dale crosses has appeared on other lists. I've always been curious---Why???? What does the dale add that the bouv doesn't have and vice versa to justify the cross and how does he intend to maintain it. With the designer stuff, F1 has been fine but on down the line, negative results.
> 
> T


Why should he have to to justify "why" to anyone T. I have been watching him for a couple of years and more closely since he had his first litter. I know what he is doing and, in part, he is proving a point. Doing a fine job of it also. I don't pretend to even understand some of what he is talking about, but, for where he lives, I think he is giving it his best shot and the pups I have seen look pretty good for being self taught. He has passion T....I like that and this kind of passion is becoming rare. He will do everything he can to prove his point while most people act passionate just because they heard or read "that this is how it is supposed to be".....but they have never done it He is getting his own knowledge....frightening thing. I like him because he has his dogs outside where they can be dogs also. Doubt if he owns a crate. He raises his dogs with the livestock.....imagine that. Got to wonder if he runs them to the vet every time he imaginmes he sees a limp? Kind of doubt it. Considering all of this, I say cuddo's to him because, designer dogs or not, he is going to produce healthy dogs. Those pups look to be very airedaley but I can attest to the fact, they look better than 90% of what I have seen produced in the airedale world today with that shot of Bouv.

What I do find of interest, and didn't realise before, is that you find most airedales doing actual work rather than title hunting. The herding pictures, the hunting pictures, most certs are state certs for therapy and service dogs....not AKC. I find that interesting.


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## Nicole Stark

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> The guy that is doing the bouv/dale crosses has appeared on other lists. I've always been curious---Why???? What does the dale add that the bouv doesn't have and vice versa to justify the cross and how does he intend to maintain it. With the designer stuff, F1 has been fine but on down the line, negative results.
> 
> T


I've got a dog bred like this. 1/4 Bull Mastiff, 3/4 Dogue de Bordeaux. F2. It accomplished exactly what needed to. The idea was to breed away from the initial F1 but to keep dogs off that original cross around to tap back into as needed. The F1 was bred to a full DDB that is bred very similar to Don's dogs, about 20 years invested, back into another line that had another 20 behind it as well. The lines represent the original lines started with on the F1 side. 

Like the situation with Don that he periodically offers up here to others, I was gifted this dog to see what I could/would do with it. Man work is a no go but everything else so far has been fair game. The BM brought in just what I needed to get better functionality from the type of dogs I had been accustomed to.

Frankly, if I didn't dislike the look of the Airedale so much I'd work with Don on a pup and do everything with it I had access to and then some. I like a good adventure and challenge.


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## Don Turnipseed

I actually don't even know the man's name with the dale crosses but, he has a talent that most would die for and may find his services of interest. Several artists have seen this picture and were really puzzled as to what I was doing with such a fine piece. Museum quality from what I am told an on Italian Parchment. This picture is of Magnum. It is about 2' x 20"


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## Nicole Stark

That's gorgeous Don. Excellent work.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Please don't tell me a DDR Dale and a DDR GSD share some history.


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## Don Turnipseed

They sure do Gerry, Both east German.


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## Don Turnipseed

Tony McCallum said:


> Gday Don, this should be an interesting experiment, but when l bring in an outside dog l worry more about "IF" l will breed it , before the what to breed it to ever starts. If you find this pup does not have a temperament , or the instincts you like , will you still go ahead with some breedings to see how these lines mesh ?
> regards Tony


Tony, thinking about this a bit more, In my mind, the hardest things to maintain in a line are the traits that are actually way over the norm. It is hard to keep them way over the norm as they tend to want to vascilate back to the average. The very extreme dominance in my dogs is what makes them what they are. That is a trait I have to maintain to have the dogs I like. The most disappointing thing I can imagine at this moment of this new line, is if they had a tendency to set upon and kill lesser or smaller dogs for no reason. It is a character flaw I have witnessed in many of the German breeds and the one thing that will keep me from breeding the dog.


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## Nicole Stark

Don Turnipseed said:


> Tony, thinking about this a bit more, In my mind, the hardest things to maintain in a line are the traits that are actually way over the norm.


Aside from dominance, like what?


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## Don Turnipseed

Nicole Stark said:


> Aside from dominance, like what?


There is nothing else Nicole. If they have the type of dominance I want, they have the confidence. I can already see they can do the work, and several types of work to boot. If they have the confidence, I like them.


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## Don Turnipseed

Nicole Stark said:


> That's gorgeous Don. Excellent work.


I like it Nicole....so much I took my big John Wayne picture down from behind my recliner and put that picture up in his place. God forgive me!


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## Nicole Stark

Oh, ok when you said traits I assumed there was something more than dominance and the associated characteristics expressed.


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## Don Turnipseed

Must be the Kentucky sourmash typing. :wink:


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## Nicole Stark

Alaskan Amber, right back at ya!


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## Don Turnipseed

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> The guy that is doing the bouv/dale crosses has appeared on other lists. I've always been curious---Why???? What does the dale add that the bouv doesn't have and vice versa to justify the cross and how does he intend to maintain it. With the designer stuff, F1 has been fine but on down the line, negative results.
> 
> T


I thought I left something out to bring it all together T. This has absolutely nothing to do with designer dogs. Don't even know why you brought that up. The guy loves his dales. If you noticed, the F2's look awfully airedaley. He is simpley doing what breed clubs do to add some new genetics. Hois are not breed club approved but he has added the bouvier genes and is going back to the airedale. This is one reason I am going to see that he gets a pup. He needs more than the one bloodline dale to keep it going.


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## Bob Scott

I thought I recognized the name Brisco then I saw Tom Rose's training field. ;-)


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Don Turnipseed said:


> I thought I left something out to bring it all together T. This has absolutely nothing to do with designer dogs. Don't even know why you brought that up. The guy loves his dales. If you noticed, the F2's look awfully airedaley. He is simpley doing what breed clubs do to add some new genetics. Hois are not breed club approved but he has added the bouvier genes and is going back to the airedale. This is one reason I am going to see that he gets a pup. He needs more than the one bloodline dale to keep it going.


I think this is the guy Emmett, [email protected]. So couldn't he have outcrossed to just one of your dales instead of the bouv? As for the designer, the reference was to the F1 vs. F2, F3, F4 in trying to maintain the mix. But if he is just after a little hybrid vigor. I can't remember but seems like when he was on the bouv list, it wasn't a one time thing. But like I said, I was just curious why the bouv as the outcross in terms of what he thought they could add.

Terrasita


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## Tony McCallum

Emmett, TD, Zulu who would know. He gets one airedale , says it is the best thing since sliced bread, first job is to cross it with Bouv and GSD. The GSD didnt take apparently or he would have F?? . He is a great artist.


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## Tony McCallum

Thanks for the post script Don, l figured there may be something that would rule a dog out of a program you had been so fussy with
Tony


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## Don Turnipseed

Tony McCallum said:


> Emmett, TD, Zulu who would know. He gets one airedale , says it is the best thing since sliced bread, first job is to cross it with Bouv and GSD. The GSD didnt take apparently or he would have F?? . He is a great artist.


LOL. I know...... I know, Tony. LOL He is kind of off in the boondocks like I am and is doing what he does. His ideas of bitework totally aside.....his pups look pretty darn nice compared to the dales I see produced here. He may have his own ideas but you have to give him credit, he isn't afraid to put the effort in. I see what he is doing and he has a big leg up on me when I started. I started with 2 straight up show dogs and kept them in the house like everyone said a responsible breeder did. Never bred anything related because that was taboo. Took a couple of years before I woke up one morning and realised I was producing the same crap the hobby breeders were producing because they had me doing it their way. The first thing to go was interferring with mother nature and the dogs went outside where they belonged. I made my share of mistakes before I finally settled on what I needed to do before I started seeing the dogs evolving to where I wanted them. I like what I see TD doing. I would do some of it different myself, but, as long as he has the passion for trying, I figure he will make it. Sitting back and watching, I can see he can't do it with one bloodline airedale so I am going to see that he gets a push in the right direction to succeed by giving him more to work with. Hobby breeders love to see non conformists fail. That is the only thing that keeps most of their dogs looking good. I aim to see he doesn't. I bet it won't be long before he is producing some pretty damned good dogs. He has the passion.


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## Joby Becker

I have a friend that had been breeding DobeXAPBT for the last 25 yrs or so...He had produced some great dogs, some great looking dogs, most live to be 13+ and I never came across one that I would call a crapper...


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## Don Turnipseed

Here they are at about 6 wks. I can definitely live with these pups.... I know which one I want. LOL


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## Dominic Rozzi

Don Turnipseed said:


> Here they are at about 6 wks. I can definitely live with these pups.... I know which one I want. LOL


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## Britney Pelletier

My boyfriend was quick to volunteer for the photo-op, and that is a picture of my leg, prior to getting mauled by puppies! 

They are nice, nice puppies, Don. I have my favorites, can't wait to find out which one you end up with!


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## Don Turnipseed

And a very nice leg it is Britney. Actually, in the last picture there is one pup that has found a scent that he is finding more interesting than what is going on. I like that one myself.


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## Thomas Barriano

Don Turnipseed said:


> And a very nice leg it is Britney. Actually, in the last picture there is one pup that has found a scent that he is finding more interesting than what is going on. I like that one myself.


Don,

In the first picture the three that are focused on the leg may be OK
The rest are sleeve focused jute junkies only suited for Schutzhund


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## Nicole Stark

Don Turnipseed said:


> Actually, in the last picture there is one pup that has found a scent that he is finding more interesting than what is going on. I like that one myself.


Ha ha, this struck me a little bit funny. My dog as a pup was like that, nearly every puppy picture I got of her was of her off by herself exploring something else. Who knows in time you might be looking to find ways to bond with that independent wash out. Kidding of course. For sport that's really not a great quality but for the other environment mine is exposed to, I like it quite a lot. :-# I imagine you do too.


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## Colin Chin

Congratulations, Don. Keep us posted on how's your new addition doing. Cheers.


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## Don Turnipseed

It's only a picture. A very small frame in time. To me, the desire to scent rules. A dog that wants to be close and walk with me hunting isn't much use.


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## Don Turnipseed

I was recently informed of a fact I don't think many realize. Considering the total number of GSD's vs. airedales entering bitesports in Europe in a given year, the number of successful airedales outnumbers the GSDs proportionatly. Tells me if more people were into airedales they could be a real compeditor. Any thoughts?


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## Bob Scott

Don Turnipseed said:


> I was recently informed of a fact I don't think many realize. Considering the total number of GSD's vs. airedales entering bitesports in Europe in a given year, the number of successful airedales outnumbers the GSDs proportionatly. Tells me if more people were into airedales they could be a real compeditor. Any thoughts?



Always a possibility. 
Not to many yrs back the Boxer was the second most popular breed in Schutzhund in Germany.
Well.......not to many to me anyway. :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Maybe the SELECTION of the airedales was much better than the GSD.

I do not see why anyone would bother unless it was obvious the dog would do it.

It would be interesting to try Don, one day, one day I will not be able to take it any longer and I will give it a try.


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## Candy Eggert

Don Turnipseed said:


> I was recently informed of a fact I don't think many realize. Considering the total number of GSD's vs. airedales entering bitesports in Europe in a given year, the number of successful airedales outnumbers the GSDs proportionatly. Tells me if more people were into airedales they could be a real compeditor. Any thoughts?


Hi Don,

I don't know about the stats Airedale vs GSD but the Airedale was one of the original breeds in Schutzhund. Maybe the Europeans have kept up the quality?! 

Like most things Americans just have to make it better until it's broke [-X


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## Don Turnipseed

Candy Eggert said:


> Hi Don,
> 
> I don't know about the stats Airedale vs GSD but the Airedale was one of the original breeds in Schutzhund. Maybe the Europeans have kept up the quality?!
> 
> Like most things Americans just have to make it better until it's broke [-X


You bet Candy. Thus the all American saying, "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is."


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## susan tuck

Don Turnipseed said:


> You bet Candy. Thus the all American saying, "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is."


hahaha! So true!!!


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## Don Turnipseed

This is the pup I am getting. Stew said he fits the description of what I wanted. He said he get on with the other pups well and doesn't bully them and the bullies don't try to bully him.


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## Mark Baldassarre

"Pictured here is Brisco, Another DDR dale. SchIII, PSA I, Master Retriever, Master Flusher. This dog is hunting every weekend during the season."

Don,

Brisco's a nice dog but he's not PSA I. He has a PDC.


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## Don Turnipseed

Went back and checked Mark. You are right. I thought there was only one entry level which would be the PSA 1. Apparently there is one there is one below that. Appreciate the correction.


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## Mark Baldassarre

Don

The PDC is a great test, *esp. for an entry level* but the PSA I is a title. There's a big difference between the PSA1 and a PDC. The differences are that the 1 requires real OB and uses distractions [other than a stick] in the attack out of hiding and the courage test. 
You wouldn't group the two together as both being "entry level" after seeing dogs who look great in a PDC run during a 1! Despite that, the PDC is a big accomplishment,IMO.


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## Don Turnipseed

I get to pick up Griffin in Fresno at noon tomorrow.


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## Ashley Campbell

Don Turnipseed said:


> I get to pick up Griffin in Fresno at noon tomorrow.


Awesome Don! Have a safe trip!


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## Nicole Stark

Don Turnipseed said:


> I get to pick up Griffin in Fresno at noon tomorrow.


Cool. I can't wait to hear more about him.


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## Don Turnipseed

I picked up Griff yesterday. He is one nice pup and was really glad to see me. Left Boston at 6:30 am EST and arrived in Fresno at 4:00 pm . 12 1/2 hours in the air and an hour to get him to the front counter.....which is a story unto itself. 

Really nice pup! Little guy is staying close to me for sure. Actually I am up at 3:00 am because he said it was time for him to go out. Up till then he was as good as gold. Don't know if he was used to stairs but he followed me right up them. He has been confident about everything.....except Jack. LOL He wasn't to sure what to think of that big guy when he came running up as it was almost dark out. So I picked him up and brought BlackJack in for more intro's. After Jack introduced himself in a calmer fashion he relaxed some but was keeping a wary eye on him. LOL I will get some pictures of them tomorrow depending on the weather as it is supposed to rain.

He is sleeping between my feet as I type and I am going to follow his lead and go back to bed. LOL


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## Ashley Campbell

Pup has jet lag, lol, to him it was 6 AM and a perfectly acceptable time to get up...right?

Don't forget pictures!


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## Don Turnipseed

I am just giving him some time to get comfortable with the big dogs in the yard right now on his own. I am going to have breakfast and then, if it isn't raining yet, I will take some pictures. I got two cords of wood coming today that will need stacking so Griff is going to have to get used to the big dogs.....and the EF.


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## maggie fraser

I'm kind of curious as to where he slept his first night at your place and if he slept quietly through...

Looking forward to pics.


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## Don Turnipseed

He slept in a crate. Woke me up at 3 to go out. Went back in the crate and slept the rest of the night. The pupo has been played with a lot and wants to be with me all the time. He hyas made more ruckus being outside with the dogs than any other time because he wants back in the house even thpough it is 72 degrees out. He will get over that shortly. LOL


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## Don Turnipseed

Here are a couple of pictures. Very hard to get pictures of him because he wants to be at my feet all the time. He is going to have to get used to BlackJack and the others along with the yard. I will get mor when he settles in.


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## maggie fraser

He looks a wee cracker with enormous feet. Will he be evicting Blackjack, or will he be going out into the yard sooner as opposed to later?


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## Don Turnipseed

BlackJack owns the yard and he is young and enjoys the pups for now. I will have to figure things out before that gets dicey.


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## Gerald Guay

Looks like he has good pigmentation and a future hard coat.
Dales are nice dogs.
Good luck. 
GG


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## Don Turnipseed

Thanks Gerald. I like the personality of the dales myself. I was sitting there watching him and I realized that this is the first dog I have ever bought in my life. What a shock. LOL My first dale I bartered for.


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## Don Turnipseed

Nice solid pup so far. I was spraying the deck off and Griff was at the gate to the deck just giving me the what for not letting him up with me. I turned the spray nozzel up in the air so the water was coming down like rain, He never missed a beat. I then sprayd over him so he was getting some direct spray. Still didn't miss a beat. I kept lowering it until the sprayer was directly on him. He kept giving me the what for and never attempted to move away from the spray. Really good sign for a water dog.

After being out in the yard all day, he has stopped barking and started moving around the yard more with Jack, Electra, and Palin. I'll bring him in tonight but, during the day, he is outside on his own while the weather is nice.


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## leslie cassian

Cute pup. Is that a natural tail??? Are you going to leave it? (I like it, but I like my dogs natural...)


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## Kristi Siggers

I like him. He's a thick little fella too!!


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## Don Turnipseed

This is a really nice pup and will be a great addition to my lines from what I see now. I can say I am not used to being around dogs that follow me like a shadow constantly but that may be the total change that he has just had. I am sure it is partly from being raised in very close contact with people and kids. He has his head on my foot right now. Most of the differences I see have to do with the way I raise mine as opposed to the way this little guy was raised and has nothing to do with genetic factors so we are good to go.


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## Don Turnipseed

leslie cassian said:


> Cute pup. Is that a natural tail??? Are you going to leave it? (I like it, but I like my dogs natural...)


It is the real enchilada Leslie. I dock my pups tails because it is expected but, I really don't care if they have a docked tail opr a natural tail. I am not going to dock this one.


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