# Damn useless IPO title...



## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

wait, wait now....before you get up in arms, i'm talking about it being useless for police work. yes, that's an exaggeration. my PSD came from Holland with an IPO I title. it was nice that he had decent obedience and had a foundation in tracking, but other than that, just about everything else is useless for our purposes.

now onto my question. we've been working for some time to break him of his search pattern. he still maintains a very IPO-ish search pattern on the area search and building search. by that i mean that he won't ever go too far away from me. he'll go out and then circle back to me. you can almost see him clearing invisible blinds as he searches. we've made some progress but i'm wondering if any other PSD's have had this issue and if so, what did you do to break it? i'm confident that if we continue on our present course we will eventually break him of it, but i'm wondering if anyone had any suggestions that might speed things up a bit....


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2006)

Eek. Can't help there, but I've heard of cops with the same problems w/Sch. dogs. I have a friend who's in charge of the county's K9s, and he's started going to rescues and doing his own tests and given up on the sch dogs-too much work to undo their baby-step tracking. They need to find people NOW!

I offered to lend them Widget, since he's VERY enthusiastic, but they declined...egos! Sheesh! :lol:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Might try sending David Frost a PM

http://www.workingdogforum.com/phpbb2/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=27

According to his profile he's a K9 trainer in Tennessee, maybe he's encountered this before. I don't know how often he checks the forum or how religiously he reads it so figured you might wanna send him a PM to look at this thread in case he didn't catch it.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Jennie, i didn't know ferrets were good trackers, :lol: ,
AL


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2006)

:x :x :x :x :x :x 
Excellent. :x

Seriously, he can track. Any dog can track, but he gets really enthused. Helped me find a cat once, and found me immediately a short, but decent distance when handled by someone else (who still will not admit he didn't see me :evil: ). 

Back to the useless IPOs-I feel like I'm always hijacking threads...  I'll be banned any day now....


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

I was talking to a couple of Las Vegas city marshals and they said they would take a young Sch 1 dog but a 2 or a 3 was too locked in to retrain for patrol duty.
I would think KNPV would be a better foundation.

Greg


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Greg Long said:


> I was talking to a couple of Las Vegas city marshals and they said they would take a young Sch 1 dog but a 2 or a 3 was too locked in to retrain for patrol duty.
> I would think KNPV would be a better foundation.
> 
> Greg


without a doubt KNPV is better. god i would be in heaven if my dog were trained in KNPV rather than IPO, but he is what he is. the apprehension stuff was no big deal. he bit the suit like a pro right from start even though he had little to no exposure to it. he is definately more serious on the bite when on the suit. i think he still views the sleeve as a prey toy.

the searching stuff i guess will just take some more time....


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

You're probably doing this already but if not try having your dog see the decoy run into the building . Allow the decoy to get deep inside then send the dog . The decoy should be prepared to make some noise to draw the dog further inside the building , field , woods , etc.. Dog gets good payoff , fight , alert , drive off , whatever . 

Also to help keep the dog from regressing , try not to call the dog back when it's actively going away from you searching . You know his pattern wait for the dog to turn around heading back to you if you want him to check a room he had passed or just come back to you . 

I've had handlers cause this problem most of the time by constantly calling the dog back to check something or when it gets out of sight . It happens so much that the dog just starts thinking he's going to be called back everytime he heads away . I know it's tough on a real search but if I have a real search where I had to call the dog back alot , I go back and set up a training scenerio where he can safely range out further on his own without me bugging him .


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

yeah, that's basically what we're doing. he never gets a short, quick find in training. i've got a couple other ideas i'm going to try next week that will rely on good communication between me and the helper (walkie talkies)...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I had just the opposiite problem. I trained my dog in SAR airscent first. He was finding me in the woods by the time he was 12 wks old. It was a bit of work to initially get him to keep his nose down for FST. If I had to do it all over again, I would do FST first, and use it as a basis for TTD and airscent work.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Mr. Nash has already given pretty much the answer I would have given. The problem with the dog is not something that can't be corrected. You just need to \"rearrange\" some of the behavior he already has. The only thing I might do a bit differently is, rather than have the decoy run deep into the building, I'd have his closer to his entry point, have the dog engage. From there, I'd slowly increase the distance from entry to decoy. The early engagement, will increase the dog's independence.

DFrost


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Mr. Nash has already given pretty much the answer I would have given. The problem with the dog is not something that can't be corrected. You just need to \"rearrange\" some of the behavior he already has. The only thing I might do a bit differently is, rather than have the decoy run deep into the building, I'd have his closer to his entry point, have the dog engage. From there, I'd slowly increase the distance from entry to decoy. The early engagement, will increase the dog's independence.
> 
> DFrost



I would favor what you posted too, David. In some of our trainings, the dog gets used to searching too "deep" missing the perp hiding behind the entrance door. When the handler gets in at the entrance, he gets whacked.

Just my observation...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So lets go back to how stupid IPO is. Obviously a Mondio dog wouldn't have these problems. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Ah yes, the Jeff Oehlsen Ring Revolution... LOL.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:Ah yes, the Jeff Oehlsen Ring Revolution... LOL.

Far superior to the old and infirmed, Jeff Oehlsen Schutzhund Revolution from a few decades back. Here is an example of the "New and Improved" Revolution.

www.chienplus.com/selectif-Ring-2006.htm

Now thats, "MANSTYLE" :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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