# The best thing about...



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

I see folks busting on Schutzhund and wonder, what's so great? If I were a newbie to it, why is it THE sport to be in????


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Around here, because it's the only protection sport available. The closest club to me is an hour away. There may be private trainers and small groups training for other sports, but then there are no venues to compete in, other than schutzhund, unless you want to travel.

As for the sport itself... dunno if it's the be all and end all of dog training, I haven't trained in any other sport so no basis of comparison. I do know I train with a really good club, both for the experience and ability of the club's TDs and for the incredibly fun and supportive members.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

because you can title a dog that otherwise isn't suited for the work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> because you can title a dog that otherwise isn't suited for the work
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME


 
50 bucks says that dog would've at least barked if someone broke into his house


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> 50 bucks says that dog would've at least barked if someone broke into his house



And another $50 says he can't reach the box of twinkies on the counter. Definitely a keeper!


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

:lol: Love the JRT.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> because you can title a dog that otherwise isn't suited for the work
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME


Now that is funny! I don't care who you are that is funny! It is true though. 

By the way aren't poodles getting sch titles now.

Howard it is the only thing in my area remotely close enough to train in.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Most recognized (world wide) and most available (in the States anyway).


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> because you can title a dog that otherwise isn't suited for the work
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME




thats pretty good .... you gotta like that even if you hate sch


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## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> because you can title a dog that otherwise isn't suited for the work
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME


We all know no dogs ever slip through the cracks of any of the other protection based sports right? :roll:


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I think you're missing the point Chris, the JRT was nicely trained, did the exersizes and overall looked good. I bet that dog could have completed titles in all the other sports. Nice dog and nice training. 

ScH IS all about obedience and the handler, it's got nothing to do with a "real" dog, hell, none of the sports do, they're just fun games. The dog was suited for the venue. 

I also believe when folks recognize the sport for what it is there would be less hating.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Al Curbow said:


> I think you're missing the point Chris, the JRT was nicely trained, did the exersizes and overall looked good. I bet that dog could have completed titles in all the other sports. Nice dog and nice training.
> 
> ScH IS all about obedience and the handler, it's got nothing to do with a "real" dog, hell, none of the sports do, they're just fun games. The dog was suited for the venue.
> 
> I also believe when folks recognize the sport for what it is there would be less hating.


Al's rite the fact is in any of the bite sports if you have a 1/2 eye for dogs a you can go to a trial and make your own assessments and if your interested in a particular dog do a little detective work and snooping you find out what a particular dog is all about.
In Schutzhund my guess is 5% and prolly less of the trainers are capable of training a empty or near empty dog and making it look like something a little bit special. The rest of the empty dogs that title in Schutzhund are simply that empty. If you not able to tell the difference between a Schutzhund monster and a shitter than.......
As for Howards question I want to try and get the best dog/pup I can and train it the best I can and show off what WE can do up to this point my dogs have been carrying me.
And I's really like to get a 99 point track one day.
www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=YV7retd4WQU
I'm going to watch the video and and then I'm going tracking8)


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## Melanie Becker (Jan 25, 2008)

Al Curbow said:


> I think you're missing the point Chris, the JRT was nicely trained, did the exersizes and overall looked good. I bet that dog could have completed titles in all the other sports. Nice dog and nice training.
> 
> ScH IS all about obedience and the handler, it's got nothing to do with a "real" dog, hell, none of the sports do, they're just fun games. The dog was suited for the venue.
> 
> I also believe when folks recognize the sport for what it is there would be less hating.


 
Excellent post Al!....last line, very true!!

I do SchH, but it's not the only thing I do...I do the other things to show my dog can do what SchH itself doesn't prove nor is intended to.

SchH training is the most available, the most recognized (internationally), and IMO is a good foundation for doing other protection sports with the right dog.


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## Jim Howe (Apr 24, 2010)

Here's what I think this thread sounds like................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi84maqHgxg

Now after this sinks in for a little while with the testosterone filled posters, I'll try to add a comprehensive post of my own to this thread later this evening when I have more time.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Keith Jenkins said:


> We all know no dogs ever slip through the cracks of any of the other protection based sports right? :roll:


Exactly - oh and let's not forget that the JRT wasn't being trialed that was an exhibition also known as entertainment at the Nationals.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Jim Howe said:


> Here's what I think this thread sounds like................
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi84maqHgxg
> 
> Now after this sinks in for a little while with the testosterone filled posters, I'll try to add a comprehensive post of my own to this thread later this evening when I have more time.


I went back through the posts I see no evidence of testosterone sadly in our club and sport for that matter there more estrogen than I like.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

guys I was just jesting for the most part. I do believe a weaker dog that wouldn't make it in any other biting sport can make it in schH. 

Personally, I do schH as a default for a few reasons. It's very prominent in my area and when looking at the quality of the decoys/helpers in the other sports, I choose to go where I personally would learn the most from the most experienced helpers/decoys. 

While I have dabbled in the Suit sports, I think schH is the best place to start for new handlers. I think schH is more about the quality of the handler vs the quality of the dog in some of the other protection sports. I love the precision OB in schH and have seen very little of the same crispness in OB with the other sports. Some of the other bite sports in THIS town I have seen mostly sloppy OB and weak control over their dogs. I think its better to start with precision and then let yourself get loose as time goes on and you participate in another sport.

I would do Mondio in a heartbeat but those guys around here are few. Michelle, get your field going!!!! 

I also like the training and trialing opportunities vs the other sports. If I were to move today, I'm sure I could find another schH club within a reasonable distance. Not so for the ring sports. The ring sports, simply do not have enough the same level of interest/participants...YET.


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## Jonathan Katz (Jan 11, 2010)

Jim Howe said:


> Here's what I think this thread sounds like................
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi84maqHgxg
> 
> Now after this sinks in for a little while with the testosterone filled posters, I'll try to add a comprehensive post of my own to this thread later this evening when I have more time.


LOL!


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## Alison Grubb (Nov 18, 2009)

I started with Schutzhund because it is the most available sport where I am located. I checked out a couple of different clubs and did learn from doing the OB and starting my Pit mix in bite work. 

But then I found FR and never looked back. :lol:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jim Howe said:


> Here's what I think this thread sounds like................
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi84maqHgxg
> 
> Now after this sinks in for a little while with the testosterone filled posters, I'll try to add a comprehensive post of my own to this thread later this evening when I have more time.


HAHAHA! I start humming this little ditty every time someone starts in with the idiotic "my dogsport's better than your dogsport" song and dance!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm glad we don't have this fuss over here. We have the "experts" watching from the "spectator seats" who could always do it better, but that's it, as a rule.

Occasionally someone will mock Mondio or Schutzhund, but it's usually out of ignorance.

I think most Mondio and Schutzhund trainers look at it as more of a sport as Al Curbow said he does. They tend to honour each other's performance, especially those that achieve *Excellent".

It smells of discontent when one has the need to jeer.


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## Tobias Wilkie (Jun 21, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> guys I was just jesting for the most part. I do believe a weaker dog that wouldn't make it in any other biting sport can make it in schH.
> 
> Personally, I do schH as a default for a few reasons. It's very prominent in my area and when looking at the quality of the decoys/helpers in the other sports, I choose to go where I personally would learn the most from the most experienced helpers/decoys.
> 
> ...




This.

I'm a novice. Would I love to do Mondio or other ringsports? Hell yes. But Schutzhund is more prominent and focuses more on the handlers' training than the dogs. Which, I think, is good for a novice handler and dog. Do I think Schutzhund titles alone make a dog breed worthy? Of course not; as it's been stated, some shitty dogs can get Schutzhund titles.

I also have a hard enough time finding active Schutzhund people in this state within a reasonable distance, let alone ringsport people. But, as another poster stated: I think I'd train my dog in Schutzhund and get those titles on him/her, and then go other places to further teach and evaluate the dog what Schutzhund cannot.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

I train in Schutzhund because of two reasons. One is the availabilty. I have never lived close enough to a ring club to give it a shot. I'd love to but it won't happen soon.

Secondly I have a dog that does OK in schutzhund but I'm not sure could handle the pressure in ring sports. Schutzhund is a good gateway for people that have high drive pets that they got with no intention of doing bitework with. We all know that at the lowest level it takes less of a dog to title in Schutzhund than ring.

Also as a side note I spoke with Claudia about Mr. Murphy once. She said he was about a serious dog as it gets. She warned Bernhard Flinks not to slip the sleeve once. He forgot and Mr. Murphy put a hole in his thumb (through the nail). Take that however you want...


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Keith Jenkins said:


> We all know no dogs ever slip through the cracks of any of the other protection based sports right? :roll:


 Keith, the wise man! Thanks!!!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Al Curbow said:


> I also believe when folks recognize the sport for what it is there would be less hating.


Al what is the sport, breed selection tool, feel good club, pre- set org.? In the day we all know whay it was intended, and freaking politics has made it something else. And the DVG....stop while I'm with it!!!!!

Real training preps the dog and the handler. But what IF there is a need to deploy the dog and it will not, or cannot obey based on the SCH std?


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Real training preps the dog and the handler. But what IF there is a need to deploy the dog and it will not, or cannot obey based on the SCH std?


If you are training your dog because you may have to "deploy the dog" then schutzhund is obviously the wrong venue for you.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> If you are training your dog because you may have to "deploy the dog" then schutzhund is obviously the wrong venue for you.



why is that Ben?


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Because Schutzhund does not prepare your dog for personal protection Chris.

You have a PPD and you would like to do Schutzhund with him? Sure.

You have a dog that you plan on training is schutzhund because you want it to protect you? Someone's stealing your money.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> Because Schutzhund does not prepare your dog for personal protection Chris.
> 
> You have a PPD and you would like to do Schutzhund with him? Sure.
> 
> You have a dog that you plan on training is schutzhund because you want it to protect you? Someone's stealing your money.


So you think there are no real dogs participating in Schutzhund? or just because it's a Schutzhund trained dog that it wont protect? or Schutzhund wipes away any of the dogs genetics or natural instincts?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> Because Schutzhund does not prepare your dog for personal protection Chris.
> 
> You have a PPD and you would like to do Schutzhund with him? Sure.
> 
> You have a dog that you plan on training is schutzhund because you want it to protect you? Someone's stealing your money.



Where's the sleeve Ben? What is the dog looking at? Do you think the dog would bite the helper if I let him go? Do you really think if I wanted to get into Personal Protection that all of the schH training means nothing?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

here's ya go Ben, this is a guy who just started to come out with his "bad ass personal protection dog" 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeAMCE5JABo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eam7DHrchQ

The dog in the video has had ZERO schH training. 

WATCH and LISTEN to the video. What do you think? What do you see?


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

Mike Scheiber said:


> So you think there are no real dogs participating in Schutzhund? or just because it's a Schutzhund trained dog that it wont protect? or Schutzhund wipes away any of the dogs genetics or natural instincts?


I must not be being very clear.

If your primary concern is whether your dog will be able to do PP then why would you do schutzhund?

Schutzhund is a sport. Does some of schutzhund training carry in to PPD training? Absolutely. Are there schutzhund dogs that would excel as PPD or PSDs? I know of at least two working in my club that would make an outstanding PPD. But schutzhund isn't PPD training. Its Sport training.

If your goal is to ensure your dog will bite someone in a real world "deployment" then why wouldn't you go and train it as a PPD? Schutzhund will not ensure that. I don't know of anyone personally that trains schutzhund with the goal that the dog will protect them.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I see what Ben is saying. I think of it like this, coming from a martial arts background and having now trained a little bit in both Schutzhund and PSA. Schutzhund is to taekwondo as the suit sports (FR, Mondio, BR, PSA, etc) are to MMA. Both are protection sports. Both have some very serious competitors with real talent along with those who just get by, if that. But seeing some dogs at the Gathering who were forearm dogs (presumably on a sleeve) that had their normal presentation taken away by the decoys, there is something to be said for diversifying your targeting approach and training for different scenarios. Just like the average black belt in taekwondo is going to get pummeled or even killed if a street fight goes to the ground and they don't know grappling and groundwork. Doesn't mean they suck as a fighter or whatever, they just haven't been trained for it. That plus the environmental work is where the suit sports seem to have an edge. JMHO.


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## Ben Colbert (Mar 9, 2010)

I watched the videos Chris,
The body language is hard to read on the dog for me because of the lack oftail and the dark.He definitely did not forwardly agress. The dog doesn't seem like a very strong dog to me. He was biting the sleeve (when it was siting in front of him) out of stress. Was this dog trained in PPD with equipment? The helper would stress him and he would bite and the helper would turn off the stress. Is this why he goes to the sleeve as he gets stressed?

Then helper even gets ballsy and gives the dog ample opportunity for a live bite. The dog wants none of it. But he seems more confident when the helper has equipment to bite.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard,
I had a civil dog, it was a huge pain in the ass. I don't want my dogs to bite anyone. I like social confident dogs with lot's of prey, fun to train. 

Sch morphed into what it is, who cares? It's a social thing for a lot of people, not about the dog or training. Why do you think people go to the club for years with the same dog? They have something to do on the weekend, the dog gets some training, it's a win win. Some Sch dogs have spectacular OB, that's what the sport is about. I don't bash it, if there was a club in my town i'd definitely play, if I have to drive more than 15 minutes? nah.....


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

WATCH and LISTEN to the video. What do you think? What do you see?[/QUOTE]

I think if your helper farted loudly that dog would have been gone. I see a guy that got ripped off if he bought the dog trained for protection.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> I must not be being very clear.
> 
> If your primary concern is whether your dog will be able to do PP then why would you do schutzhund?
> 
> ...


I thought you were starting to sound like Howard. I would never train a dog for PP getting sued ain't in the cards for me letting a god damn dog decide shit like that ain going to happen in my yard. I live in the city the chance of accidental bite far out ways the chance of a legitimate one.
I got very lucky once my first Schutzhund dog Joker RIP did get a justifiable buy the court live bite in our yard. I believe to this day he is the only dog to get a live bite in the city of Minneapolis and have it justifiable 5' over and it would have very different story Tyrone would be sleeping in my house and I'd be living on the street.
It was his first and only bite EVER off the Schutzhund field. 
He did bite the guy in the arm though :lol:


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> Where's the sleeve Ben? What is the dog looking at? Do you think the dog would bite the helper if I let him go? Do you really think if I wanted to get into Personal Protection that all of the schH training means nothing?


Not picking on you or your training, but if your helper didn't have a wip in his hand and a scratch apron on, would your dog light up on him? Another question, did you do any bite work on the sleeve before this photo? I only ask because if a dog is real he better have the same reaction away from the training field on person that's got no equipment and is not making all the prey movements.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Adam Rawlings said:


> Not picking on you or your training, but if your helper didn't have a wip in his hand and a scratch apron on, would your dog light up on him? Another question, did you do any bite work on the sleeve before this photo? I only ask because if a dog is real he better have the same reaction away from the training field on person that's got no equipment and is not making all the prey movements.


EDIT: I first said "Yes he would light up." Now that I think about it, I'm sure he would but I don't recall training without an apron or stick in hand. 


I'll see about getting vid tonight and test him in that scenario. Tonight I'm planning on getting the dogs to work in a dark corner without me around so they learn to work alone.



Here's the whole vid from the session in the photo. No sleeve until the blind. I wanted him worked up in before I sent him into the blind. It was actually the first time my Rottie worked with that helper, since the helper has become a member of our group.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krcBBY6xeSE


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Ben Colbert said:


> I watched the videos Chris,
> The body language is hard to read on the dog for me because of the lack oftail and the dark.He definitely did not forwardly agress. The dog doesn't seem like a very strong dog to me. He was biting the sleeve (when it was siting in front of him) out of stress. Was this dog trained in PPD with equipment? The helper would stress him and he would bite and the helper would turn off the stress. Is this why he goes to the sleeve as he gets stressed?
> 
> Then helper even gets ballsy and gives the dog ample opportunity for a live bite. The dog wants none of it. But he seems more confident when the helper has equipment to bite.


Not bad, 
And to the table naysayers here is a perfect example of what a crapper looks like on a table pretty sure the dog prolly looks the same on the ground. I think we have all seen the videos of the scared dog being abused and fed a sleeve on the table cant put something in or do something for a dog that ain't there.
On the flip side you damn sure and wreck a good one.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Tonight I'm planning on getting the dogs to work in a dark corner without me around so they learn to work alone.QUOTE said:


> That is a good test of courage for any dog. I bet if most PPD owners did this they would be unpleasantly suprised by the out come. Good on you for sharing.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ben Colbert said:


> Because Schutzhund does not prepare your dog for personal protection Chris.
> 
> You have a PPD and you would like to do Schutzhund with him? Sure.
> 
> You have a dog that you plan on training is schutzhund because you want it to protect you? Someone's stealing your money.


Depends on HOW you train for sch....and what type of dog you have..


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Adam Rawlings said:


> Tonight I'm planning on getting the dogs to work in a dark corner without me around so they learn to work alone.QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> > That is a good test of courage for any dog. I bet if most PPD owners did this they would be unpleasantly suprised by the out come. Good on you for sharing.
> ...


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

I am sure this will fall on deaf ears (or eyes I guess), but does it really matter what "sport" you are training your dog for?
The handler and decoy/helper are what will make the dog. Each sport expects different things of the various exercises, some more specific than others. But in the end, it's all how the handler and decoy prepare the dog.

I am quite sure if I gave my dog the "engage" command in front of someone without a sleeve, she would be confused. At the moment, I am ok with that. My main intentions with this dog at this time is to score as many points as possible in SchH. So training to engage for real is of little interest to me (at this time). Different stokes for different folks. Everyone has different goals or expectations of their K9's. It really depends on what you are trying to achieve.

Bottom line, a good handler and a good decoy should be able to prepare a dog for any situation, regardless of the sport the club is affiliated with or mainly train.

for what it's worth...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Kevin Walsh said:


> Bottom line, a good handler and a good decoy should be able to prepare a dog for any situation, regardless of the sport the club is affiliated with or mainly train.
> 
> 
> for what it's worth...


well said except you forgot the word "good" in front of the word dog..

Bottom line, a good handler and a good decoy should be able to prepare a *good* dog for any situation, regardless of the sport the club is affiliated with or mainly train.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Chris thanks for the video clips. I can't put much stock in a clip and then not know what was being done before the photo or video. Why is the dog doing a B&H sport style? For PPD isn't distance safer for the dog? As the decoy was walking into the dog, the dog pushed back, the decoy steps into the blind and it's game on! Neat to see others and what they do!!! =D>


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Kevin you are so right, thanks.


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## Kevin Walsh (Sep 8, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> Kevin you are so right, thanks.


thanks for the props...coming from someone as seasoned as you, it means a lot!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Howard, I've been wondering since your initial post if you think ppd should be just as an attractive sport ? Do you ? Do you consider ppd training a sport ? Do you train your dogs so as you're protected from the boogie man or for sport ? No dual, ambiguous, incomprehensible answers thanks .


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> Howard, I've been wondering since your initial post if you think ppd should be just as an attractive sport ? Do you ? Do you consider ppd training a sport ? Do you train your dogs so as you're protected from the boogie man or for sport ? No dual, ambiguous, incomprehensible answers thanks .


My training is a way of life, like my martial arts background has been, K-9 training is an interest that I share with many of our club members.

Sports...not working towards ribbons, plastic shelf pieces, or wall hangers. 

My Glock and my background can handle those boogies, the dogs are a nice addition to the overall package.

So Maggie, how are YOU handling that old boogie man?:-k :evil:


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## Margaret Wheeler (May 29, 2010)

The best thing about Schutzhund is that it lead to the creation of my awesome dog! ;-)

In the various working dog stuff I've been involved in there have always been people who were extremely adept at multi-tasking: they could mimic real training while they really trained around the holes in their dogs ability and their own fundamental misunderstanding of the work which in turn mades them weak breeders and trainers. As if this wasn't enough they were able to lie to themselves and to their puppy buyers and everyone else involved about what was really going on with the dogs. 

Schutzhund doesn't seem to be any different: theres the real people and their good dogs and there's the others who when all else fails blame the sport/work rather than to the real culprits, themselves. Lucky for me it's possible to learn your lesson and at least try to be true to real working dogs, because I definitely had a long poser period in the Jack Russells.

I didn't do Schutzhund because I'm an unbelievable klutz and very distractible and nervous. No way I could handle the footwork and that huge search. Schutzhund is an awesome venue for working dogs though. It just isn't the flavor of the month.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> My training is a way of life, like my martial arts background has been, K-9 training is an interest that I share with many of our club members.
> 
> Sports...not working towards ribbons, plastic shelf pieces, or wall hangers.
> 
> ...


 
So, as I interpret your post Howard, you train in ppd as an interest much in the same way as your martial arts interest, so it's interest and a lifestyle...not so different from the other active sports people as I see it. It's good to hear you're well prepared for the boogie man, nothing quite like being in a state of ever readiness...kind of like the batteries.

As for me handling the boogie man, I'll just unleash the beast to buy me time until I get to him  .


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## Skip Morgart (Dec 19, 2008)

I like the variety of training it gives the dog. I've talked to people who are more interested in other sport venues, and that's fine, but most of these people have respect for anybody that has actually titled their dog in any of the sport venues. And I have a certain amount of respect for anybody that has actually titled their dogs in other sport venues.


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> because you can title a dog that otherwise isn't suited for the work
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkdvME


Is that dog titled?


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Al Curbow said:


> I also believe when folks recognize the sport for what it is there would be less hating.


Have you ever notice that the haters are never the people that have done the sport and had success? those that have done the sport always seem to respect it, even if they find a sport that they like better.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Christopher Smith said:


> Is that dog titled?



no idea, I was just jesting.

for the record, I'm not a true schH hater and I reserve my opinion until I actually accomplish something in the sport of schH. I do enjoy it and I have learned more than I ever imagined...still learning, still trying....


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

maggie fraser said:


> So, as I interpret your post Howard, you train in ppd as an interest much in the same way as your martial arts interest, so it's interest and a lifestyle...not so different from the other active sports people as I see it.*OOOPS, no pattern training Maggie!!!!* It's good to hear you're well prepared for the boogie man, *Can't walk in the venue you can't defend!* nothing quite like being in a state of ever readiness...kind of like the batteries. *Recharge optional!!!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> As for me handling the boogie man, I'll just unleash the beast to buy me time until I get to him  .*God protect him then...*


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Christopher Smith said:


> Have you ever notice that the haters are never the people that have done the sport and had success? those that have done the sport always seem to respect it, even if they find a sport that they like better.


 Chris anyone can "respect" what they enjoy...why do it it otherwise??? :-k


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