# prepping for bitework



## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

As I am going through this now, trying to figure out how to get the dog calmer and therefore clearer and “settled” from bite one. At last training discussion we came up with, taking him out and putting him up several times before our turn and an obedience exercise which requires the dog to focus his thoughts on something other than what is going on in the field. 
Thought this could be an interesting discussion. What are your pre entry routines…….before training or trial. Ive seen some dogs get a bite or aggitation before going out for a trial….others a run to burn them out some….
t


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

I used to compete in the United States Police Canine Associations Patrol Dog 1 Nationals . It depended on the dog but we would prep doing some outs and finishes off the bite and work on the dog being stable during the search and a maybe a recall( for us it's when we send the dog on a bite and then recall him back to us before he gets a bite ) . 

Usually we wouldn't do any aggitation since for most of the dogs it messes up the control work off the bite . The judges are looking for calm , full bites and a quick out upon command .


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

Tracey, At club training we always do OB earlier. Every one runs there dogs through OB and then we start protection. When the team before me goes onto the field I get my dog out of the van and take them for a walk to go potty. Then I make OB in the parking lot (out of view) from the dog being worked. It may be a little healing, sitting with attenion, downs & sits etc. When it is my turn I heal my dog onto the feild with full attention. We do a little healing before we start any protection work.

Lasher has always had issues controling his drive in the presence of the helper. I always used the down to cap him. I would do this and wait a couple minutes just to let his drive come down and then pick him up and start over. Now that he is older (maybe this is why) and we are using the silent/down guard he is much eaiser to handle. Also "Less is More" with Lasher. The more bites he gets the stupider he gets- the worse is his performance. I wish that we would have worked a lot more on capping and secondary OB when he was younger. Live and learn....

The GSD is completely different. He conforms to me and easily switches gears to OB with the helper present. Of course our training is more developed and I am sure genetics has a large part in it.

Julie


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

With my dog it doesnt matter how far we go, he spins, he whines, he barks his head off and he will not relieve himself. I try to go far enough away (usually down the road and out of site) and down him with long calm strokes. That is like an auto off button. I am not "heeling" out just yet but he is at my side and not allowed to pull so that helps the focus. I have since just switched to keeping him up until the last minute as he would burn himself up......not the best in wind in hot humid florida. His work actually is better after the first few bites as he is then settled and not in overloaded.

I liked the idea of taking him out several times and putting him right back up I think that is going to help. The ob trick is putting the dog on a down/ sit and pulling on the lead so they are pulling back to hold the position. Gets the brain refocused. I like this alot but it will require some prep work on my part before we can truly utilize it. i have yet to try either of these........

Jim the prep work you are talking about was to help burn the dog up a bit?

t


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

It depends on the dog . Usually it's just to keep him clean and with those dogs it doesn't hurt to take the edge off them a little . But it's a fine line , tire a dog out too much and I've seen them get sloppier . Not so much on quality of the bite but on control . Slow or chewy outs , crappy finishes , etc. . On really hot days both my dogs recall can go to s*** quick . 

I like to keep prep work short and sweet . Get the quick clean behavior I want , put the dog away to stay cool , rest and go get the job done .


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Healing for bites works well. 
I have my dog set up now so when he sees someone standing on the field like a judge he will really start healing strong and with power and focus because he knows he will be getting a bite if he don't look away. I still need to teach him the part from reporting in to the start at blind 6 it wont take long.
Wile on the protection trial field this is the only time I require my dog to fuss is from the edge of the field report in and down to the start.
All other exercises I use the commands walk and transport this means he watches the helper but must remain in the proper heel position. 
That's what I do any way. Healing for bites is a great teaching tool and teaches discipline with out compulsion there is no conflict and the dogs head stays clear.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I have been training with a new club (to me).... I have a dog that gets pretty intense and can have some control problems. With my new club, I have been working with one person in particular that has had some success. I was reluctant to do this at first, but I put my trust in them and things are going great. He told me, He does not care if the dog gets a bite...but the dog sure does. So we have been using that. Similar to what others have been talking about. We take her out and she does not get to bite till she starts thinking and stops being a crazy nut. I have seen vast improvements in one summers time. I was using more complusion to knock her drive down, which worked for a time...but sooner or later she would either become immune to the complusion or she just take the chance that I might not correct her. Then I would apply more complusion. I was miserable training, and was at a loss...What happened to my dog!!! This takes some time to see solid results but I can tell the dog is more eager to work and is more clear headed in this training.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Healing for bites works well.
> I have my dog set up now so when he sees someone standing on the field like a judge he will really start healing strong and with power and focus because he knows he will be getting a bite if he don't look away. I still need to teach him the part from reporting in to the start at blind 6 it wont take long.
> Wile on the protection trial field this is the only time I require my dog to fuss is from the edge of the field report in and down to the start.
> All other exercises I use the commands walk and transport this means he watches the helper but must remain in the proper heel position.
> That's what I do any way. Healing for bites is a great teaching tool and teaches discipline with out compulsion there is no conflict and the dogs head stays clear.



Ain't it amazing how people are starting to "get it".
Why pick a fight with a dog that likes to fight!


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Just to answer your questions, the agitiation work...I rarley see carry over to the field. The dog goes right back to it's normal state of mind that is usually is in. And as for running it off, if the dog has that much drive this also rarley works, these dogs generally will work till they are dead. Of course there exceptions to these.

But I think if your problem is on the field. The cues to the dog to get that amped are on the field. Not in the parking lot. So I think prepping the dog is a futile exercise. The dog will just revert back to what it knows when it sees these cues. Unless we somehow persuade the dog to try something different with those cues present. The basic princpals of dog training still apply here. And in almost everything in life, those who have mastered the basics are the best (I have not mastered these myself). So, Basically whatever is rewarded is likely to occur again. And what is not will go extinct. I think you can keep your drive and still have secondary OB in protection. I would just deny the dog any reward till they behave. Go slow, ask for simple things in the beggining to get the dog on board with the new learning style. And if they want to do it wrong, make them do it again. I now, will take my dog off the field without ever getting a bite if she wants to go in retard mode. I am not going to entertain that kind of behavior. In a good protection dog, the worst thing that could possibly happen to them is not get to do protection. You may see the dog at first go lower in drive, this is good. they are trying to think...but are a little unsure on what's expected. But once they get it the drive will return. I also have to be aware that if the dog makes continued mistakes I have somewhere missed a step in training, and need to give the dog a bit more guidance. Maybe break down the behavior a little more into bite size steps. High drive dogs, it can be hard for them to think. So I give them less to think about. But I up the anty as time goes on. And as I become better at this, and problems I arise. I am quicker to see where I made a mistake and inadvertantly taught the dog to do it. An example is, I had a hard time heeling away from the decoy. She would always turn and want to go back to him. I blamed this on her drive. But then looked back on what I was doing. In heeling for bites I would often just release the dog after some good heeling. So, why would my dog not think after heeling away that sooner or later I was going to release her for a bite...all she was doing was trying to anticipate my command to go get a bite. With direction from someone else, they pointed this out. And we start having the decoy come to her, instead of her to him.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Ain't it amazing how people are starting to "get it".
> Why pick a fight with a dog that likes to fight!


That's for sure Bob.
I'v never been a fan of putting a dog up and have never done it wast of my time and training time. If the dog has the desire you have a teaching tool my dog would die of old age with a BH if I trained this way. My dog is no stranger to the pinch but I seldom use it for corrections disobedience mostly if he wants something its my job to guide him so he can achieve success.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

James Downey said:


> An example is, I had a hard time heeling away from the decoy. She would always turn and want to go back to him. I blamed this on her drive. But then looked back on what I was doing. In heeling for bites I would often just release the dog after some good heeling. So, why would my dog not think after heeling away that sooner or later I was going to release her for a bite...all she was doing was trying to anticipate my command to go get a bite. With direction from someone else, they pointed this out. And we start having the decoy come to her, instead of her to him.


I LOVE this example. This is one of my favorite parts of training, the disecting of HOW and WHY the dog is doing what it is doing.

t


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Ain't it amazing how people are starting to "get it".
> Why pick a fight with a dog that likes to fight!


 
I think that is an excellent point and exactly why we are moving on to OC (on the field) as corrections are not they way to go. 

However, Id still like to be able to take my dog out, let him do "his business" and then wait in a calm manner without loading and heating up......  Id like him to *come out* with a clear head. 

t


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## Sherry Spivey (Sep 7, 2009)

My girl has/had a screaming problem. As soon as I would take her out she would start "leaking" all over the place. I tried all of the above, putting her back in the car..... the prong collar just got her jazzed. Her ob was pretty good, just the noise OMG. :-#

Waine Singleton suggested "put something in her mouth". So we started with a pillow. I give her a few tugs to keep her engaged and walk to the field. I would out at the edge of the protection field and get a little leaking. Now I can walk her up while the dog ahead of is working!! I never thought I would see the day.

Basically taking away the fighting, which just upped her drive, helped her to calm down and think. It has made a HUGE difference in my girl and may be worth a try.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Over the winter I did something very similar as well and for the exact same issue. Just outside of the primary training room I'd down her and have her hold a tug. It worked beautifully. No fight, no nothing but quiet.

I didn't need to use it for the entire waiting period just long enough for her to get the idea that she needed to be quiet. Probably after two sessions I put it away and for the most part could keep her sufficiently calm as we waited for her turn.


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