# berry II



## brad robert

Not sure if he has be posted before but i did a search and didnt find anything.

Wow looks like an amazing dog his long attacks are of the charts and seems to have decent OB as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTiFNnN0oTg&feature=fvsr


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## Alice Bezemer

brad robert said:


> Not sure if he has be posted before but i did a search and didnt find anything.
> 
> Wow looks like an amazing dog his long attacks are of the charts and seems to have decent OB as well
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTiFNnN0oTg&feature=fvsr


Yup hes a very nice dog indeed...have one of his ofspring who is almost 17 months old now and is showing promise for the future....am very pleased with him and he seems to take after his father a lot in action and appearance.


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## Harry Keely

Would have to agree with Alice, from what I have seen and heard myself and talking with others over there the dog is a superb dog. Also has nice genetics.

You thinking about getting a pup off of him or something similar to his genetic make up?


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## will fernandez

I have one that is also 17 months old and he is going to start patrol school with his new handler in two weeks. He is a very nice dog.


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## Drew Peirce

One of my personal favorites, doesnt have the name or recognition of a Berry II but performancewise he measures up nicely>>>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZMo4Oh3dIg


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## Christopher Jones

Drew Peirce said:


> One of my personal favorites, doesnt have the name or recognition of a Berry II but performancewise he measures up nicely>>>
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZMo4Oh3dIg


 Chato was a nice dog. His owners a nice guy as well. 
He has a new young dog called Tyson.


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## Christopher Jones

brad robert said:


> Not sure if he has be posted before but i did a search and didnt find anything.
> 
> Wow looks like an amazing dog his long attacks are of the charts and seems to have decent OB as well
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTiFNnN0oTg&feature=fvsr


Berry has had a truck load of breedings as well. By all accounts he has produced very well. They got him NVBK registered but I dont know if any NVBK breeders have bred to him tho.
His owner "Lamers" is apparently a real tough handler who needs a strong dog so I would assume Berry is the real deal, without seeing him in person.


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## Joby Becker

nice vids....thanks for sharing...


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## Drew Peirce

Are you saying he met an untimely demise?


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## Christopher Jones

Drew Peirce said:


> Are you saying he met an untimely demise?


 Who?


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## Gerry Grimwood

Christopher Jones said:


> Chato * was * a nice dog.


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## Christopher Jones

Haha, Chato was sold to the Police so Mateo doesnt have him now. Ive no doubt he is still a good dog lol.


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## Ben Haley

Hi

Chato was a very strong dog, a good combination from Tommy Luyken and a Rudie Pegge daughter. He is now a Dutch Army dog. Matteo Van Den Brink is a good friend of mine. He is young and very passionate about his dogs, I was lucky enough to collect semen from the dog that you mentioned Chris. Tyson is only young but showing great promise in his work,extreme drive, super grip and a never quit never say die attitude. He also goes back to some nice line breeding on Duco 11 Seegers, Rambo Rossum and Breston Massop.

Here is a link of Tyson working at 12 months.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7DhjrTFP-8


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## Joby Becker

Ben Haley said:


> Hi
> 
> Chato was a very strong dog, a good combination from Tommy Luyken and a Rudie Pegge daughter. He is now a Dutch Army dog. Matteo Van Den Brink is a good friend of mine. He is young and very passionate about his dogs, I was lucky enough to collect semen from the dog that you mentioned Chris. Tyson is only young but showing great promise in his work,extreme drive, super grip and a never quit never say die attitude. He also goes back to some nice line breeding on Duco 11 Seegers, Rambo Rossum and Breston Massop.
> 
> Here is a link of Tyson working at 12 months.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7DhjrTFP-8


one way to work the grip...
nice video, thanks for sharing


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## brad robert

Harry Keely said:


> Would have to agree with Alice, from what I have seen and heard myself and talking with others over there the dog is a superb dog. Also has nice genetics.
> 
> You thinking about getting a pup off of him or something similar to his genetic make up?


harry i just posted this because i appreciate all working dogs and really liked this video the dog looked really solid in his work.

Im pretty sure my next dog will be a mal/dutchie but for now im happy working my gsd:smile:


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## Christopher Jones

Ben Haley said:


> Hi
> 
> Chato was a very strong dog, a good combination from Tommy Luyken and a Rudie Pegge daughter. He is now a Dutch Army dog. Matteo Van Den Brink is a good friend of mine. He is young and very passionate about his dogs, I was lucky enough to collect semen from the dog that you mentioned Chris. Tyson is only young but showing great promise in his work,extreme drive, super grip and a never quit never say die attitude. He also goes back to some nice line breeding on Duco 11 Seegers, Rambo Rossum and Breston Massop.
> 
> Here is a link of Tyson working at 12 months.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7DhjrTFP-8


He looks like a real nice young dog from the videos I have seen of him. Hopefully you crack some pups from Tyson.


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## Martine Loots

Christopher Jones said:


> Berry has had a truck load of breedings as well. By all accounts he has produced very well. They got him NVBK registered but I dont know if any* NVBK breeders have bred to him *tho.
> His owner "Lamers" is apparently a real tough handler who needs a strong dog so I would assume Berry is the real deal, without seeing him in person.


Not that I know of.

Can't watch the video :sad: it always starts buffering (and keeps buffering) at the palisade jump


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## will fernandez

Martine

If you go bloedlijnen.nl and look him up, on his pedigree you will find another video of him that will probably load faster.


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## Ellen Piepers

Christopher Jones said:


> Berry has had a truck load of breedings as well. By all accounts he has produced very well. They got him NVBK registered but I dont know if any NVBK breeders have bred to him tho.
> His owner "Lamers" is apparently a real tough handler who needs a strong dog so I would assume Berry is the real deal, without seeing him in person.


We had a litter from Berry II when he hadn't had that many breedings, and no offspring results could be seen yet, kept a male for ourselves and another one is training at the same club. Nice dogs (posted something on them in the photo thread recently). We had the breeding because of what my husband had seen of the dog, not just the owner (my husband has known him for a long time, so he can see through the effect of the handler ). We had a long talk about his past dogs when we visited him, and to do him justice, he can bring a softer type of dog too if he wants to. So I think the total amount of breedings you can see now is the effect of the dog being what it is, multiplied by the reputation of the owner. Obviously this is not meant to discredit the dog in any way at all, let that be clear.


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## Dominique Domogala

Christopher Jones said:


> Berry has had a truck load of breedings as well. By all accounts he has produced very well. They got him NVBK registered but I dont know if any NVBK breeders have bred to him tho.
> His owner "Lamers" is apparently a real tough handler who needs a strong dog so I would assume Berry is the real deal, without seeing him in person.


 
yes , i know someone who did a breeding with berry in the nvbk .

but the female was fci . 


yes lamers is a very though handler . but all good handlers who have strong dogs need to be tough AND CORRECT

but i always ask myself , if berry II wasn't the dog of lamers , would he still done so many stud services ?


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## Alice Bezemer

Dominique Domogala said:


> yes , i know someone who did a breeding with berry in the nvbk .
> 
> but the female was fci .
> 
> 
> yes lamers is a very though handler . but all good handlers who have strong dogs need to be tough AND CORRECT
> 
> but i always ask myself , if berry II wasn't the dog of lamers , would he still done so many stud services ?


If he would have had another owner maybe his potential wouldnt have been reached is what im thinking...or he might have even proven to be a better dog then he is now....I dont think you can think like that Dominique....what ifs dont count since we know them to not have happend to begin with....lamers did a good job with the dog and he has had a lot of breedings due to that fact...its never only quality and genetics of the dog what you see on the field, its how the handler can get the dog to display those qualities that are also a very large chuck of the dogs reputation.


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## Christopher Jones

Alice Bezemer said:


> If he would have had another owner maybe his potential wouldnt have been reached is what im thinking...or he might have even proven to be a better dog then he is now....I dont think you can think like that Dominique....what ifs dont count since we know them to not have happend to begin with....lamers did a good job with the dog and he has had a lot of breedings due to that fact...its never only quality and genetics of the dog what you see on the field, its how the handler can get the dog to display those qualities that are also a very large chuck of the dogs reputation.


I havent seen Berry or met Bert Lamers so I cant really comment on the two of them, but in the KNPV a dogs stud numbers does coincide with who the owner is. If Hans Pegge, John te Lindert, Beckhaus, Lamers, Huijs etc have a dog it gets more breedings than if Joe Blow has the same dog.


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## Alice Bezemer

Christopher Jones said:


> I havent seen Berry or met Bert Lamers so I cant really comment on the two of them, but in the KNPV a dogs stud numbers does coincide with who the owner is. If Hans Pegge, John te Lindert, Beckhaus, Lamers, Huijs etc have a dog it gets more breedings than if Joe Blow has the same dog.



But that in my view is since these people know how to get the highest potential out of their dogs and the fact taht they know what line to pick from and what line to ignore...I dont see any of these mentioned handlers going for the unknown bloodlines with poor names behind it...they go for the proven lines with good genetics and quality breedings that have already proven themselves in the past. the very reason in fact why i picked a berry2 pup and my next pup will be coming from a breeding from van leeuwen...good names with good genetics and proven bloodlines...however I do not doubt that these people could still do an extremely good job with a poorer bloodline (for lack of a better word) I still feel that a dog is only as good as the handler behind him....if the handler doesnt bring it out of the dog then no matter the bloodline, it will never reach its full potential.


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## Christopher Jones

Alice Bezemer said:


> But that in my view is since these people know how to get the highest potential out of their dogs and the fact taht they know what line to pick from and what line to ignore...I dont see any of these mentioned handlers going for the unknown bloodlines with poor names behind it...they go for the proven lines with good genetics and quality breedings that have already proven themselves in the past. the very reason in fact why i picked a berry2 pup and my next pup will be coming from a breeding from van leeuwen...good names with good genetics and proven bloodlines...however I do not doubt that these people could still do an extremely good job with a poorer bloodline (for lack of a better word) I still feel that a dog is only as good as the handler behind him....if the handler doesnt bring it out of the dog then no matter the bloodline, it will never reach its full potential.


 I agree and thats why I also made the assumption that because Lamers owned Berry he was a good dog. But I also dont close my eyes to their "unknown" brothers who may actually be the better genetic animal.


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## Dominique Domogala

Alice Bezemer said:


> If he would have had another owner maybe his potential wouldnt have been reached is what im thinking...or he might have even proven to be a better dog then he is now....I dont think you can think like that Dominique....what ifs dont count since we know them to not have happend to begin with....lamers did a good job with the dog and he has had a lot of breedings due to that fact...its never only quality and genetics of the dog what you see on the field, its how the handler can get the dog to display those qualities that are also a very large chuck of the dogs reputation.


it was a non offense post , lamers did a great job , i love the offspring of berry II. he gives great dogs .you can never say what if . but sometimes i see super good dogs with less good handlers . they can't pull it off to get good results or even train their dogs to compete . if that super dog gets to a good handler like lamers , iedema etc.... you get fireworks . but there are more good dogs with genetic power , but you wont see that in them when there older due to bad handling 



Christopher Jones said:


> Lamers owned Berry he was a good dog. But I also dont close my eyes to their "unknown" brothers who may actually be the better genetic animal.


yes so true , thats what i meant .
i totally agree


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## mike suttle

just out of curiosity i wonder how the environmental nerves are with Berry II offspring, and even with Berry II himself. I have only seen a few sons from him here in Holland, and not sure who the mother's were from those young males.


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## Dominique Domogala

mike suttle said:


> just out of curiosity i wonder how the environmental nerves are with Berry II offspring, and even with Berry II himself. I have only seen a few sons from him here in Holland, and not sure who the mother's were from those young males.


 
my girlfriends dog can handle tons of environmental stress . she is a berry daughter .
she did this attack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_53TSGIHIs and this attack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv-uFcc8P54 when she was 5months old at full suit .without any training .


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## Guest

mike suttle said:


> just out of curiosity i wonder how the environmental nerves are with Berry II offspring, and even with Berry II himself. I have only seen a few sons from him here in Holland, and not sure who the mother's were from those young males.


Mike what have you seen with the offspring you saw out of curiosity


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## Christopher Jones

mike suttle said:


> just out of curiosity i wonder how the environmental nerves are with Berry II offspring, and even with Berry II himself. I have only seen a few sons from him here in Holland, and not sure who the mother's were from those young males.


 Dude, your in Holland at the moment. Grab Gerben and go and see him. Video it and upload it.


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## Christopher Jones

Dominique Domogala said:


> my girlfriends dog can handle tons of environmental stress . she is a berry daughter .
> she did this attack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_53TSGIHIs and this attack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv-uFcc8P54 when she was 5months old at full suit .without any training .


 Cool, so she is a Berry 2 daughter. I really did like the video you put up of her.


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## will fernandez

I have had my berryII son on a helicopter, speed boat onto a tug boat, bites in a steel container, and firemen training tube maze. He has done exceptionally well. I will try to get the tube maze bite video online this weekend

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## Martine Loots

Christopher Jones said:


> I agree and thats why I also made the assumption that because Lamers owned Berry he was a good dog.* But I also dont close my eyes to their "unknown" brothers who may actually be the better genetic animal*.


Of course this is possible, but you have to be very careful.
You have to keep in mind too that dogs "look" more impressive with inexperienced handlers.
They don't have experience in handling the type of dog and the dog is allowed to "grow" (that's what we call it).
In the hands of an experienced and tough handler, this same dog will change and it often happens that there is nothing left then.

When ATim was with his first owner, he was like a wild beast. The man couldn't handle him and was afraid of him. The dog wasn't even 1yr old and everybody was talking about it. Nobody could come on the training field when the guy was training and when the dog was biting it was almost impossible to make him out. VERY impressive BUT also because the dog didn't respect his handler and had been allowed to "grow".

When Joâo bought him, he knew he was taking a big risk. He paid a lot of money for an 18mth old dog that knew hardly anything. The dog would need "special" treatment to make him behave and who could tell if he was going to support that? Would there still be "a dog" left then or would he collapse, like so many others he bought before... Fortunately he did survive the "education" 
Afterwards people even had the impression that he was social 
His sons Fun and Hit are the same type of dog, with the difference that they got the right education and were taught "respect" from puppyhood. Then you see a completely different image. But even then you see a difference between Fun (handler Joâo, so very tough) and Hit (handler Martine... ).
Although they are much alike character wise and equally strong, Fun behaves much better then "wild one" Hit. Hit hasn't been allowed to "grow" either and he got a hard education too, but I can't put the same pressure like Joâo does.

That's why I prefer to see a dog with a tough handler. If he still shows his strength then, then you can say he's "a dog"


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## Selena van Leeuwen

#-o


Martine Loots said:


> Of course this is possible, but you have to be very careful.
> You have to keep in mind too that dogs "look" more impressive with inexperienced handlers.
> They don't have experience in handling the type of dog and the dog is allowed to "grow" (that's what we call it).
> In the hands of an experienced and tough handler, this same dog will change and it often happens that there is nothing left then.
> 
> When ATim was with his first owner, he was like a wild beast. The man couldn't handle him and was afraid of him. The dog wasn't even 1yr old and everybody was talking about it. Nobody could come on the training field when the guy was training and when the dog was biting it was almost impossible to make him out. VERY impressive BUT also because the dog didn't respect his handler and had been allowed to "grow".
> 
> When Joâo bought him, he knew he was taking a big risk. He paid a lot of money for an 18mth old dog that knew hardly anything. The dog would need "special" treatment to make him behave and who could tell if he was going to support that? Would there still be "a dog" left then or would he collapse, like so many others he bought before... Fortunately he did survive the "education"
> Afterwards people even had the impression that he was social
> His sons Fun and Hit are the same type of dog, with the difference that they got the right education and were taught "respect" from puppyhood. Then you see a completely different image. But even then you see a difference between Fun (handler Joâo, so very tough) and Hit (handler Martine... ).
> Although they are much alike character wise and equally strong, Fun behaves much better then "wild one" Hit. Hit hasn't been allowed to "grow" either and he got a hard education too, but I can't put the same pressure like Joâo does.
> 
> That's why I prefer to see a dog with a tough handler. If he still shows his strength then, then you can say he's "a dog"


Sounds lika a very familiar story.....:mrgreen:

People who saw f.e. my Rocky, Spike, Wibo in a more advanced stage, told me ( and of course "others".:roll:.) after seeing them perform, they could not imagine those dogs where "difficult".#-o
(Happens already with my Bor now again......)

So I recognize the "he looks very social and not so difficult" thing very well......;-)

Dick

ps 
Selena took over Spike for two weeks a few years ago. She beter tell herself how that "worked out".... :-\"


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## Martine Loots

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> #-o
> 
> Sounds lika a very familiar story.....:mrgreen:
> 
> People who saw f.e. my Rocky, Spike, Wibo in a more advanced stage, told me* ( and of course "others".:roll:.)* after seeing them perform, they could not imagine those dogs where "difficult".#-o
> (Happens already with my Bor now again......)
> 
> So I recognize the "he looks very social and not so difficult" thing very well......;-)
> 
> Dick
> 
> ps
> Selena took over Spike for two weeks a few years ago. She beter tell herself how that "worked out".... :-\"


Familiar with that too :lol: . In fact they mostly tell other people, don't they.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> ps
> Selena took over Spike for two weeks a few years ago. She beter tell herself how that "worked out".... :-\"


and thank you, Dick :roll:

As background info:
When Dick and I met Spike was about 18 mo., bred and raised by Dick. In the first place he only accepted me 'cause Dick told him he had to. Later on he start liking me because of me, not because he was told to tolerate me. Still in Spikes view, Dick comes as # 1, he's close 2nd, and on a mile distance I'm in the picture. Spike and I have an understanding: if I ask nicely, he will do what I ask as long if it is in the line of "come along, I have food for you".

When I trained him he was about 2.5-3 yrs, and for a reason (can't remember what exactly) our decoy couldn't come out to train for awhile.
So Dick was going to decoy and I would take Spike out. Before we did this I already told Dick it wasnt a good idea..

First week was ok, Spike was used to Dick's pressure and on Dick's ob I could do some excercises. In wk 2, in the 4th trainingsession I wasnt able anymore to get the bag back with the objectguard and I got a warning of Spike. That was the last time I trained him or -better said- took him out to the trainingsfield with me as an assescoire of Spike.. The liability towards other people, and a bit for me, was to high.


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## Ted Efthymiadis

brad robert said:


> Not sure if he has be posted before but i did a search and didnt find anything.
> 
> Wow looks like an amazing dog his long attacks are of the charts and seems to have decent OB as well
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTiFNnN0oTg&feature=fvsr



sweetttttttttttttttttttttttttt


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## Alice Bezemer

mike suttle said:


> just out of curiosity i wonder how the environmental nerves are with Berry II offspring, and even with Berry II himself. I have only seen a few sons from him here in Holland, and not sure who the mother's were from those young males.



have no issues here when it comes to his environmental nerves...outgoing happy go lucky dog with no fear in him when it comes to doing anything new...on 30.12.2010 we went out training with him with a few friends of mine who work in security...took him to a school which he has never experianced before and worked him...didnt even flinch, since it was close to newyears we did the whole fireworks flashing and firecracker thing while he was biting and again he didnt care just took it all in stride and kept doing his job. was the first time for him on slippery floors when we did the locating of the suspect and also when we did the attack....he fell flat on his face the first time :lol: wasnt something he expected but got up and still went for the attack anyway...after that he decided that slippery floors are fun and if you run and try to stop yoiu can actualy skate ! stupid dog lol...now funny enough we have another berry2 ofspring on the club of a different bitch but he isnt so stable as you would like to see, edgy and hard to keep under control due to his not so strong character...he is a good dog, will do the work but doesnt handle the stress all that well and if put under enough pressure will show the cracks...dog was like that since it was a pup and hes 28 months now and going to trial end of the year or early 2012 perhaphs...berry 2 has a lot of good offspring but not all of them are up to scratch unfortunatly...or atleast thats my opinion.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Martine Loots said:


> Of course this is possible, but you have to be very careful.
> You have to keep in mind too that dogs "look" more impressive with inexperienced handlers.
> They don't have experience in handling the type of dog and the dog is allowed to "grow" (that's what we call it).
> In the hands of an experienced and tough handler, this same dog will change and it often happens that there is nothing left then.
> 
> When ATim was with his first owner, he was like a wild beast. The man couldn't handle him and was afraid of him. The dog wasn't even 1yr old and everybody was talking about it. Nobody could come on the training field when the guy was training and when the dog was biting it was almost impossible to make him out. VERY impressive BUT also because the dog didn't respect his handler and had been allowed to "grow".
> 
> When Joâo bought him, he knew he was taking a big risk. He paid a lot of money for an 18mth old dog that knew hardly anything. The dog would need "special" treatment to make him behave and who could tell if he was going to support that? Would there still be "a dog" left then or would he collapse, like so many others he bought before... Fortunately he did survive the "education"
> Afterwards people even had the impression that he was social
> His sons Fun and Hit are the same type of dog, with the difference that they got the right education and were taught "respect" from puppyhood. Then you see a completely different image. But even then you see a difference between Fun (handler Joâo, so very tough) and Hit (handler Martine... ).
> Although they are much alike character wise and equally strong, Fun behaves much better then "wild one" Hit. Hit hasn't been allowed to "grow" either and he got a hard education too, but I can't put the same pressure like Joâo does.
> 
> That's why I prefer to see a dog with a tough handler. If he still shows his strength then, then you can say he's "a dog"


Thanks for posting this, I have often wondered about that very thing.


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## Ellen Piepers

Christopher Jones said:


> I havent seen Berry or met Bert Lamers so I cant really comment on the two of them, but in the KNPV a dogs stud numbers does coincide with who the owner is. If Hans Pegge, John te Lindert, Beckhaus, Lamers, Huijs etc have a dog it gets more breedings than if Joe Blow has the same dog.


I think that is the combined effect of the dog's quality, the handler's quality and the "marketing" effect of the handler's reputation (which they have for a good reason!) Also, these people have a very good network which increase the amount and quality of information they have access to, the exposure the dog gets and the selection of dogs they can make.

How Berry II offspring show, depends on too many factors to make any valid general statements about, if you consider the amount of different bitches he's bred to and the variety of handlers. What I see hereabouts in quite some is that they are quite tough physically, not very tolerant with unclear handler behaviour, and not scared of a hard impact in the attack (which can be a risk too, both for injuries but also in end result if you don't build it up properly, because they mainly want to bite, and don't give a **** where if you just let them do want they want from the beginning). And when they're really focussed, there is no environment :wink: (there's a nice grip though)


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## jack van strien

Maybe many people dont know Bert Lamers was the owner/handler of Eik de deux pottois.


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## will fernandez

Ellen Piepers said:


> And when they're really focussed, there is no environment
> 
> 
> 
> Thats a good dog.
Click to expand...


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## R Janssen

will fernandez said:


> I have one that is also 17 months old and he is going to start patrol school with his new handler in two weeks. He is a very nice dog.


Good luck, hope he gets certified.

Berry2 is indeed a nice dog, he is a "complete" dog.

I remember 2 years ago a competition here in Venlo, where all the big name handlers where competing, (Pegge etc.)
However Marco came in last with Berry2. problem.? not releasing, but don't think Marco minded that. ;-)



Ellen Piepers said:


> How Berry II offspring show, depends on too many factors to make any valid general statements about, if you consider the amount of different bitches he's bred to and the variety of handlers. What I see hereabouts in quite some is that they are quite* tough physically*, *not very tolerant with unclear handler behaviour, and not scared of a hard impact in the attack* (which can be a risk too, both for injuries but also in end result if you don't build it up properly, because they mainly want to bite, and don't give a **** where if you just let them do want they want from the beginning). And when they're really focussed, there is no environment (*there's a nice grip *though)


I agree with your general description of his offspring, thats also what i see.
Offspring also generally have the grips from Berry's mothers line, "een mooie volle droge beet" like we call it down here.

For the Dutchie fans, there have been a couple Berry2 x Tommy litters down here that are showing very nicely.
Personally i would love to see a breeding between Berry2 and a heavily bred dog on Duco2 Seegers.
But thats me... :mrgreen:


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## Ellen Piepers

will fernandez said:


> Ellen Piepers said:
> 
> 
> 
> And when they're really focussed, there is no environment
> 
> 
> 
> Thats a good dog.
> 
> 
> 
> It has some advantages if the handler doesn't become part of the environment :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## todd pavlus

What happened to Remco's post?? I would like to know why he thinks Ivo is so much better dog than Berry ll


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## will fernandez

I am a big fan of Iedema's dog. Would love to know how Ivo compared to Hector?


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## todd pavlus

You mean Suttle's dog:-$


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## will fernandez

Yes you are right--I should of said his lines.


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## Christopher Jones

René Hendriks said:


> Personally i would love to see a breeding between Berry2 and a heavily bred dog on Duco2 Seegers.
> But thats me... :mrgreen:


I also like a Duco2 dog. I have just bought some frozen semen from a very, very, very tough Duco2 xMH dog in Holland that I am going to put into my bloodlines. Big, powerful, highly driven, but very serious. He is also social. Also his littermates are very impressive dogs, which is important to me. He has had a couple of litters himself with very nice pups.


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## Dominique Domogala

will fernandez said:


> I am a big fan of Iedema's dog. Would love to know how Ivo compared to Hector?


 
ivo is a great dog , i saw him on training a few times . 

very fast , super impact . a very smart dog with more then enough caracter


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## Nicole Stark

testing only, do not reply please.


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