# Bring back jeff o!



## Guest

Cmon, whether its debate or occasional trash talking, he is what makes this forum interesting! Either grow a set, get tough skin, IGNORE, there are ways to elivate ones problems, but to ban a user for that on an open forum sounds childish to me. 

I do however agree with banning people that come on here an continue to market there xxxxx and don't add anything to the forum, but you all have done a good job at that in the past. 

Jeff, like or not, provides, training advice, video at times, conversation, debate, occasional trash talk, but all you do is let them know or lock the thread if it becomes too much.

I am for one to bring him back! This is an open forum and I know there are set rules, but cmon, this is riduculous!


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## Keith Earle

Didn't know he was gone?


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## Guest

*Jeff Oehlsen







*

*Banned User*


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## Brian Anderson

Jody Butler said:


> Cmon, whether its debate or occasional trash talking, he is what makes this forum interesting! Either grow a set, get tough skin, IGNORE, there are ways to elivate ones problems, but to ban a user for that on an open forum sounds childish to me.
> 
> I do however agree with banning people that come on here an continue to market there xxxxx and don't add anything to the forum, but you all have done a good job at that in the past.
> 
> Jeff, like or not, provides, training advice, video at times, conversation, debate, occasional trash talk, but all you do is let them know or lock the thread if it becomes too much.
> 
> I am for one to bring him back! This is an open forum and I know there are set rules, but cmon, this is riduculous!


Jody this isn't an "open forum" its only as open as the folks who flip the switches. It took them 1.5 months to "approve" my signup in the beginning. If they are banning folks for their opinion then it should be in the open and transparent. If he is banned I'd be curious as to the reason myself. He is a knowledgable guy and truly a nice guy. His style is what it is.


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## Jonathan Hoffnagle

So what happened? The man tells it like it is, bring him back.


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## sam wilks

Mom, can Jeff come out and play today? Please![-o<


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## Michelle Reusser

Uh oh, who did he go off on this time? Is it another temp slap on the wrist or is he gone for good?


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## Dave Colborn

Wonder what he did, and who got "hurt" by his words on the internet this time...

This is part of his charm though, and probably a calculated move by WDF admin to get people to come on and rally to save him....I am in.


Jody, why don't you head it up, and tell me where to be with either cardboard and markers for signs, or guns and kit for an assault on the internet. I will probably be cannon fodder for such an entry, but willing for a cause like this!!! LOL


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## Chad Byerly

I missed whatever happened, and found out on fb. I like many of the helpful contributions he makes, and very much disagree with many of his more brash statements. Sounds like a done deal, at least from him. It's a different place without him, and we'll see if he ends up allowed back in the game. It's fitting that Will F posted that futbol link before he was axed (prophetic?).


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## Tammy St. Louis

i am in , i d like him back


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## Thomas Barriano

You can only play the rebel who doesn't follow the rules, for so long. Eventually the people that make the rules, call your bluff and you're gone. You can't say he hasn't been warned on numerous occasions. His good advise was minimal compared to his insults and trash talk. If he's gone for good this time? I'll miss him for his entertainment value.


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## Shane Woodlief

Your kidding is this a joke they have banned Jeff! I have personally find him funny as heck and truth is his advise in training is good really good. In my personal correspondence with him I have found him very helpful.

Secondly lets be honest he calls out most of the BS on this forum and calls it like it is. If he is banned this is going to be a boring place. So he gets banned and we still have the many personalities of a couple of idiots that have been banned so many times that it is ridiculous and absurd - mods come on! Lets make WDF a better place eat your crow and bring Jeff back please!


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## Faisal Khan

I miss all the excitement, what happened?


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## Josh Smith

If he is gone I vote that you bring him back. He is good at calling people on their bs.


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## Joby Becker

as one who jeff seems to have in his crosshairs often, I think he is a douche on this board, but I dont think he should be banned, if that makes any sense...lol

and for the record he does NOT only call people out on their bullshit, he also likes to try to belittle people he seems to not care for. hurling personal insults..

but that doesn't mean I want him banned, there is a lot of entertainment there as well..I am not sure if I was a mod, I would want to put in the time to babysit every post made, to see if rules are followed though, so I can understand it..


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## james mackey

Josh Smith said:


> If he is gone I vote that you bring him back. He is good at calling people on their bs.


+1


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## Howard Gaines III

They have rules for a reason...................


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## Howard Gaines III

If you have to use a poll to follow policy...remove the policy and let it be a free for all! 
This is a freaking no brainer and no brainer it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There!\\/


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## Pete Stevens

Can't we all just get along? Bring the little a-hole back. I may not agree with him sometimes, or most of the time. And I may not even like his delivery but guys like him are needed. 1st Amendment baby! I may not agree but you sure has hell have the right to say it. The be-little type responses are probably a result of a bad childhood, maybe WDF could do an intervention?


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## Nancy Jocoy

I imagine, like always, he will get let out of time out and come back in eventually. Don't know what it was this time.


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## Chris McDonald

I got $5.00 it was an overweight SARs woman that complained about him being mean.


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## Sandra King

What does the weight have to do with anything? :roll:

There's a lot of douches on this forum. Jeff is just one of many. It's "comes with the profession/hobby" (call it whatever you want). 

He knows he's a douche and I wouldn't be surprised if he'd actually enjoys being a douche and laughs about being banned. This forum is as important as the dirt under your fingernails.

I'd be surprised if he actually gives a sh** about being banned from here.


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## Doug Zaga

Was Jeff being Cindy Brady...


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## maggie fraser

Sandra King said:


> What does the weight have to do with anything? :roll:


You obviously haven't read too many of Jeff's posts have you ? :roll::-D

Jeff's a resident _character _here, the world needs more _characters._ Let Jeff back out to play.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

ok, word from me- on a personal note, not as mod-:

I like Jeff, a lot. He provokes to let people think, and sometimes is just a PITA (and he know he is), but he;s always Jeff and makes me laugh.

As a mod:

yes, he's banned permanently.l


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## maggie fraser

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> ok, word from me- on a personal note, not as mod-:
> 
> I like Jeff, a lot. He provokes to let people think, and sometimes is just a PITA (and he know he is), but he;s always Jeff and makes me laugh.
> 
> As a mod:
> 
> yes, he's banned permanently.l


Permanently ? :-o Permanent permanently as in not getting back ever ?? :-o

Don't believe you [-X. Why do we have a poll going then ?

I say bring him back and make him a mod :-D.


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## maggie fraser

Doug Zaga said:


> Was Jeff being Cindy Brady...


I'd put my 50p on Christopher F before I put it on Cindy.


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## Sandra King

maggie fraser said:


> You obviously haven't read too many of Jeff's posts have you ? :roll::-D
> 
> Jeff's a resident _character _here, the world needs more _characters._ Let Jeff back out to play.


Nope, but I could care less about him or any other douche. 

I am overweight, do SAR and I am a woman but it certainly wasn't me who complained about him. 

Actually, I pity him. He's got such great knowledge, could inspire people for real and all he does is bullying people on an internet forum and people applaud him for that. What a great "hero" he is for entertaining all those great sportsmen/women out there. 

Yeah, he's a real hero... I guarantee you, there'll be somebody else taking his place. Usually it takes never long for another douche to step up the plate insulting people and to entertain the sheep.

It's laughable and I simply can't take any of you, who think that he's such a great person for being a douche seriously nor can I take him seriously at all. There are others, more respectable people out there that can give just as much, if not even more, advise. 

However, that doesn't mean that somebody has to be banned, you can always put them on your ignore list. That's what it's here for. But I can understand the moderators and administration as well. At some point you are so fed up with the bs some people pull that you just want to get rid of them. It's their turf, therefore its their rules.


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## maggie fraser

Sandra King said:


> Nope, but I could care less about him or any other douche.
> 
> I am overweight, do SAR and I am a woman but it certainly wasn't me who complained about him.
> 
> Actually, I pity him. He's got such great knowledge, could inspire people for real and all he does is bullying people on an internet forum and people applaud him for that. What a great "hero" he is for entertaining all those great sportsmen/women out there.
> 
> Yeah, he's a real hero... I guarantee you, there'll be somebody else taking his place. Usually it takes never long for another douche to step up the plate insulting people and to entertain the sheep.


I disagree Sandra, I don't think folks applaud him for his bullying when he does do that, that is when I switch off to him, and often he looks an idiot when he indulges in this way to a great many I expect....he just doesn't care, or at least let on anyway.


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## Gerry Grimwood

I don't think he should be banned, but it,s a numbers game now with all the advertising and jeff is just one person.

What could he have possibly done to get banned permanently...was he caught with somebody's favorite sheep or something ?


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## maggie fraser

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I don't think he should be banned, but it,s a numbers game now with all the advertising and jeff is just one person.
> 
> What could he have possibly done to get banned permanently...was he caught with somebody's favorite sheep or something ?


I'm thinking the very same thing ! Who's sheep ?


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## Faisal Khan

Sandra King;280389
I am overweight said:


> That sounds like a super conflicting statement to me! no offense lady. Like a marathon runner saying he's obese :?:


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## maggie fraser

Faisal Khan said:


> That sounds like a super conflicting statement to me! no offense lady. Like a marathon runner saying he's obese :?:


Hey Faisal, quit getting itchy feet there, we have a poll going :wink:.


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## Jim Nash

It's going to be interesting seeing the direction this forum will take now . The #'s on the poll seem to be heavily in Jeff's favor as liking him on this forum . Curious what the #'s would be like in a couple of years if we did it again . Different type of voters I'm going to predict . I don't think anyone will step up and take Jeff's place . They'll get banned .


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## will fernandez

No Jeff-----Well I guess it now becomes another Leerburg Forum...The slow death of forum irrelevance has begun.


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## james mackey

will fernandez said:


> No Jeff-----Well I guess it now becomes another Leerburg Forum...The slow death of forum irrelevance has begun.


You can tell by the poll results and the view count that he was an integral part of this forum. Were do we all go now?


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## Faisal Khan

maggie fraser said:


> Hey Faisal, quit getting itchy feet there, we have a poll going :wink:.


Ok ok Maggie, I'll go get a foot massage and pedicure. Went to vote but did not see the "Dont Care" option O


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## Sandra King

Faisal Khan said:


> That sounds like a super conflicting statement to me! no offense lady. Like a marathon runner saying he's obese :?:


oh, so overweight people can't do sar?

Take a look around and a good look at most of the Grid Searchers. 75% of the Volunteers are obese and they are doing just fine. Being obese has nothing to do with fitness or being healthy!


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## Faisal Khan

Sandra King said:


> oh, so overweight people can't do sar?
> 
> Take a look around and a good look at most of the Grid Searchers. 75% of the Volunteers are obese...


No wonder they can't find anyone


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## Brian Anderson

I have read all the posts and have not seen one comment regarding Jeff himself. I have spoken with him a couple of times in fact we are going to try to work dogs soon he graciously invited me over to his place. I want to learn how he trains some specific things. He has always been very helpful and nice when speaking to him. As far as the forum part of it I suppose thats up to the powers that be here. This is a paid forum in so far as adverts etc and there is a business decision to be made there. 

Im all for free speech as far as it's not directly threatning or just plain out of bounds. If someone gets their feelings hurt they will get over it :-({|=


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## Sandra King

Faisal Khan said:


> No wonder they can't find anyone


I know you are joking but actually, we've just had a live find last month. It was my very first Grid Search, first night search and the guy was found at 6 in the morning. 

My point is that you can be overweight and still stay active. Anyhow, that's not the topic. 


As for my vote, I don't care whether he's here or not.


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## Brian Anderson

Sandra King said:


> oh, so overweight people can't do sar?
> 
> Take a look around and a good look at most of the Grid Searchers. 75% of the Volunteers are obese and they are doing just fine. Being obese has nothing to do with fitness or being healthy!


Sandra I look at it like this..... if I am a victim and it comes down to your dog saving my life....or god forbid finding my body. I don't give a rats butt what you look like. I want that dog to be on his game :wink:


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## will fernandez

Funny I always thought the advertisers should pay Jeff. He brings more hits on this forum than just about anyone. Silly business decision . But whatever I think this will be my last post for awhile.


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## Donna DeYoung

if you miss him, he's plentiful on german shepherd pedigree forum. even more funny over there.


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## Chris McDonald

will fernandez said:


> No Jeff-----Well I guess it now becomes another Leerburg Forum...The slow death of forum irrelevance has begun.


I agree with this and the internet is only big enough for one Leeburg forum. No one is really saying what he got banned for? Or was it just everything all rolled up?


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## Chris McDonald

Sandra King said:


> Being obese has nothing to do with fitness or being healthy!


This statement is so special! 
Might as well stick a cigarette in your mouth on the grid search.


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## Chris McDonald

16% say not to bring him back. I never would have guessed 16% have such thin *** skin.


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## Jim Nash

Chris McDonald said:


> This statement is so special!
> Might as well stick a cigarette in your mouth on the grid search.


Be prepared for a lot more of that stuff now .


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## Chris McDonald

Jim Nash said:


> Be prepared for a lot more of that stuff now .


 
You trying to say that without Jeff no one will bother calling people out about their silly statements? Such as obesity has nothing to do with your health? Cause I think your right.


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## Debbie Skinner

Chris McDonald said:


> This statement is so special!
> Might as well stick a cigarette in your mouth on the grid search.


I have a couple friends that do not recognize the health risk of being so very, very overweight and continue to make poor choices. They are in as much denial as the substance abusers that I know. It's very sad and a preventable health risk. 

Obesity From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Obesity is a medical condition in which excess body fat has accumulated to the extent that it may have an adverse effect on health, leading to reduced life expectancy and/or increased health problems.....Obesity increases the likelihood of various diseases, particularly heart disease, type 2 diabetes, breathing difficulties during sleep, certain types of cancer, and osteoarthritis.[2] Obesity is most commonly caused by a combination of excessive food energy intake, lack of physical activity, and genetic usceptibility.....Obesity is a leading preventable cause of death worldwide....


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## brad robert

There is a heap of people here who give great advice without the insults that he did and heaps of people who can cut you down without the pure stupid no brain remarks he made.

Some of his advice was good but mostly lead back to beating the dogs ass or something along those lines which was just dumb and i dont believe good for this board at all.

I have enjoyed only a few of his posts and most times i would think what is that useless dribble or an insult for no reason is just not called for.

And having him here to call fat people out or whatever is presumed stupid by him is just not how things get done.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Sandra King said:


> . Being obese has nothing to do with fitness or being healthy!


You must live by that river in Egypt.


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## Chris McDonald

Debbie Skinner said:


> I have a couple friends that do not recognize the health risk of being so very, very overweight and continue to make poor choices. They are in as much denial as the substance abusers that I know. It's very sad and a preventable health risk.
> 
> Obesity From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Obesity is a medical condition in which excess body fat has accumulated to the extent that it may have an adverse effect on health, leading to reduced life expectancy and/or increased health problems.....Obesity increases the likelihood of various diseases, particularly heart disease, type 2 diabetes, breathing difficulties during sleep, certain types of cancer, and osteoarthritis.[2] Obesity is most commonly caused by a combination of excessive food energy intake, lack of physical activity, and genetic usceptibility.....Obesity is a leading preventable cause of death worldwide....


Whats great about it is she is right you can still do SARs….. goes to show you what is expected of the team.


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## Chris McDonald

Gerry Grimwood said:


> You must live by that river in Egypt.


 
Damit this one went over my head again, can you explain further?


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## Debbie Skinner

Chris McDonald said:


> Whats great about it is she is right you can still do SARs….. goes to show you what is expected of the team.


I understand what you are saying. 

I have obese friends that train dogs in protection sport and train horses and train agility...however, when these people do take a fall, they are hurt worse due to their weight and these friends suffer more joint problems already in their 30s and 40s..can't imagine what condition they will be in in their 50s and 60s if they don't take stock and stop thinking that things like Mt. Dew are a food group  It's green but, not the "good" green. ](*,)


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## Chris McDonald

Anyone got jeffs email address? I had it a while back but cant find it. I just want to make fun of him for getting kicked off. I think he would like that


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## Debbie Skinner

Chris McDonald said:


> Damit this one went over my head again, can you explain further?


the Nile River in Egypt..and denial... Play on words like when I named my dog D'Only = the Only i.e. singleton..


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## Chris McDonald

Debbie Skinner said:


> the Nile River in Egypt..and denial... Play on words like when I named my dog D'Only = the Only i.e. singleton..


Ohhh, I got it, I got it. I think Its kinda a funny but I think I think it would have been funnier if I understood it the first time I read it. Sometimes when people have to explain the joke to me it takes some of the funny out of it. Im a little slow and that is what happens sometimes.


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## Sandra King

And it is none of your business just as much as it is mine. It's people choices. You are responsible for yours and I am responsible of mine and everybody else is responsible of theirs. 

As long as that person can hold up with the skinny people on the team nobody gets hurt and you know what, it's a good thing those people are out there. It keeps them active and going. It's exercise. 

Anytime an obese person is out there handling their dog, whether it be agility, sar or Schutzhund, that person is physically exercising and you can't say that they are not active, we all know how much it takes to train your dog and they are just as actively training their dog as you are!


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## Doug Zaga

Debbie Skinner said:


> I have a couple friends that do not recognize the health risk of being so very, very overweight and continue to make poor choices. They are in as much denial as the substance abusers that I know. It's very sad and a preventable health risk.


I just finished my dinner ribs, sweet potato and corn...ice cream later if I have room.


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## Chris McDonald

Sandra King said:


> And it is none of your business just as much as it is mine. It's people choices. You are responsible for yours and I am responsible of mine and everybody else is responsible of theirs.
> 
> As long as that person can hold up with the skinny people on the team nobody gets hurt and you know what, it's a good thing those people are out there. It keeps them active and going. It's exercise.
> 
> Anytime an obese person is out there handling their dog, whether it be agility, sar or Schutzhund, that person is physically exercising and you can't say that they are not active, we all know how much it takes to train your dog and they are just as actively training their dog as you are!


I guess it’s a bit more active than sitting in a chair and typing on the computer? But not much. 
Your right it is someone’s choice to be overweight and it is none of my business. But I think it was fair to point out that being obese does have a negative effect on health and to think other is bad denial. And we also learned the Denial River is in Egypt.


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## Patrick Murray

I have absolutely no problem with Jeff with one big exception. His posting syle undoubtedly drove others away and intimiated some from posting for fear of being called out by him. I think Jeff is a good guy that, perhaps, wasn't always aware of the signal he was sending to others. With that said and coming from a Christian who believes in reconciliation and redemption, I would hope that Jeff could be afforded the opportunity to redeem himself and come back to the family.


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## Doug Zaga

Patrick Murray said:


> perhaps, wasn't always aware of the signal he was sending to others.


You think...?:?:


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## Patrick Murray

Doug Zaga said:


> You think...?:?:


:lol: I'm trying to be gracious.


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## Thomas Jones

looks like the guarding the decoy thread did him in. He basically acts on here like most people I've met from TX


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## Randy Allen

I don't think I really care one way or the other whether Jeff is here or not.
Him getting banned just like that is puzzling though, he's been a good boy for the last few weeks.

It must have been something really taboo.....
My idea is he got caught posting a bunch of psycho babble bs under an alias.


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## Christopher Smith

Bwaaaaaahahah!


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## Laney Rein

brad robert said:


> There is a heap of people here who give great advice without the insults that he did and heaps of people who can cut you down without the pure stupid no brain remarks he made.
> 
> Some of his advice was good but mostly lead back to beating the dogs ass or something along those lines which was just dumb and i dont believe good for this board at all.
> 
> I have enjoyed only a few of his posts and most times i would think what is that useless dribble or an insult for no reason is just not called for.
> 
> And having him here to call fat people out or whatever is presumed stupid by him is just not how things get done.


 
well said and Ditto that!


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## Gerry Grimwood

Laney Rein said:


> well said and Ditto that!


To take a quote from that Winston Churchill thread for all of you with that mindset....Jeff could decide to be a totally different person when he wakes up tomorrow, but you'll still be a bunch of stupid ****s.


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## Nancy Jocoy

I am fat and on a SAR team but agree you should be lean and fit to field a SAR dog for live missions. It is best for even cadaver dog missions. No way I can keep up with a bunch of lean wiry 20 and 30 somethings, particularly at night. Now most middle age police officers I can honestly outpace.

I would say the same thing about K9 cops, many of whom are fat.

No way to say it is healty. Ask how many board members died of heart attacks last year. Also consider the impact of an injury and a fat person is much more likely to blow a knee or break an ankle out in the woods at night.

I am still a human being struggling with it all and I bet most people are broken somewhere, but do participate by doing mapping and planning at the IC for live searches (as well as being a victim for training) and working a cadaver dog where time is not quite as much of the essence. 

With the right mindset anyone can bring something of value (find their niche) to help save a human life.

But Jeff did go beyond the pale and chased away quite a few from the SAR forum and I assume he was banned from there as he quit posting -- Yes I did complain at one point in time because in addition to his insults he derailed a perfectly good discussion.

Honestly I think he has chased away more good people than he has added but then I am not part of the ringsport crowd and I have learned to just shake my head. Figure between his crappy job, and his fixation with Chuck Norris he is not so imposing a character.


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## Shane Woodlief

I think it is hilarious how this is about getting Jeff back and most of the thread is about some girl doing SAR that brings up (she - herself) the fact that she is fat and people agreeing with her that she is fat and then she is getting upset with those people who agreeing with her she is fat because she is actually "healthy" on the inside and "beauty" is only skin deep stuff - and Jeff is not even here - now that's funny.

I think Jeff is a great guy with a lot of knowledge again private correspondence I found him very helpful. 

Truth is - I think that he and others like him are a dying breed of people who call a spade a spade and realize a dog is a dog and not your BFF and shot straight. 

This is becoming very unpopular by thin skinned - politically correct - everyone is a winner and should get a trophy - bunch of mellow dramatic a$$ holes that are too stupid to understand that controversy, conflict and struggle is what makes you better, stronger and produces a better you. It is people calling you fat that encourages you to get off the couch - put the bag of chips away, turn off Hell's Kitchen - take a walk - loose some weight - live longer and be a better person.  

Banning Jeff is a bad move.


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## Adam Rawlings

Good stuff Shane.=D>


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## Peter Cavallaro

hell i just found out by PM Jeff was banned how did y'all know this?

anyway as a non-US citizen all i got to say is; Jeff O is 100% pure American.

noone else here can get to the essential aspects of an argument more accurately, more quickly and more articulately than Jeff, heck if people get banned just for being A-holes then people like me would be banned from life.

i think SAR chix should lose weight and Jeff should be allowed back, the first for the environment the second for the board.

Jeff if u come back as a fake, PM me we'll have some fun.


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## Shane Woodlief

Peter Cavallaro said:


> hell i just found out by PM Jeff was banned how did y'all know this?
> 
> anyway as a non-US citizen all i got to say is; Jeff O is 100% pure American.
> 
> noone else here can get to the essential aspects of an argument more accurately, more quickly and more articulately than Jeff, heck if people get banned just for being A-holes then people like me would be banned from life.
> 
> i think SAR chix should lose weight and Jeff should be allowed back, the first for the environment the second for the board.
> 
> Jeff if u come back as a fake, PM me we'll have some fun.


Yea me to if come back as another personality pm me and let me know that would be awesome!


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## Nancy Jocoy

Just for clarity - Sandra is a fat SAR lady , and I am a fat SAR grandma and neither one of us had a thing to do with getting Jeff knocked off the board.


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## Peter Cavallaro

i know Jeff was faking it as the Christopher Fox dude n got caught - they both dissapeared at the same time and Jeff never once appeared in the whole 15 page thread - brilliant, hillarious.


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## Peter Cavallaro

so whats SAR mean - searching for and trying to rescue your own self respect


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## Faisal Khan

Peter Cavallaro said:


> SAR chix should lose weight and Jeff should be allowed back, the first for the environment the second for the board.


Can I use that in my sig?


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## Shane Woodlief

Peter Cavallaro said:


> so whats SAR mean - searching for and trying to rescue your own self respect


Dude I am laughing my a$$ off right now - I know I could have used the abbreviation LMAO - but that was so funny I has to type it all out


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## Peter Cavallaro

sure



10 character thing added


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## Peter Cavallaro

Shane Woodlief said:


> Dude I am laughing my a$$ off right now - I know I could have used the abbreviation LMAO - but that was so funny I has to type it all out


 
wasn't tryin to be funny just a genuine question O


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## Nancy Jocoy

No, it means Seing that forum A$$holes are Remarkably unendowed and have to resort to cheap shots to build up their own egos.

LOL NOW I understand the whole ****-erotic Chuck Norris fascination


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## Doug Zaga

I am wondering......:-\" how long will this thread last?

I still say he was Cindy Brady...


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## Peter Cavallaro

3/10 for that comeback Nancy


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## Chris McDonald

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Just for clarity - Sandra is a fat SAR lady , and I am a fat SAR grandma and neither one of us had a thing to do with getting Jeff knocked off the board.


OK, thanks for letting us know all that


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## Stephanie P Johnson

Happy Independence Day y'all.

For those who would still wish to correspond with Jeff, his email address is [email protected]. I know he would be happy to hear from you.

I haven't posted on this forum since the mods in their omnipotent mis-moderation decided I was Jeff posting under an alias and removed all my posts. I am not Jeff. I return to address comments being made regarding one who is now without opportunity to rebutt, another injustice again due to inept moderation (Mrs. Leeuwen excepted.)

@Ms. Jacoy: Anyone who can be chased off a message board by words on a computer screen does not have the temperament to handle a correctly temperamented working dog, Ringsport, SAR, or any other discipline.

@Mr. Allen: Jeff ALWAYS posts using his own name. Taboo is telling a moderator via PM that he has sold out. 

@Mr. Jones: Jeff is from Chicago. He is not a native Texan.

@Mr. Murray: Calling someone or something stupid "stupid" is a statement of fact. It may or may not be an insult, depending on how much the truth hurts. Reconciliation adresses disease (sinfulness). As Jeff is morally the cleanest living human being I have ever encountered in my life, your suggestion that he is in need of redemption is both pompous and inapplicable. 

@Mr. Robert: FYI-Americans are (or are descended from) people who left, by choice, everything behind to to make a new start in a place where they would be free to have their say. Australians are descended from criminals.
Will you take that as the truth or an insult?

Anyone care to resurrect Mr. Michalec's board in remembrance of his objection to censorship?


----------



## Laney Rein

*Re: Bring back jeff o! - not*



Nancy Jocoy said:


> No, it means Seing that forum A$$holes are Remarkably unendowed and have to resort to cheap shots to build up their own egos.
> 
> LOL NOW I understand the whole ****-erotic Chuck Norris fascination


aw c'mon Peter - that was a 9/10 - Good one Nancy. Just like I told Jeff once, only LITTLE BOYS have to have pissing contests in the snow by writing their names - doesn't take big cahones to do that - my dog can just about do it albeit he doesn't have thumbs.


----------



## Shane Woodlief

*Re: Bring back jeff o! - not*

Ok lets put the fat stuff aside and Nancy's fantasies with Chuck Norris 

Why did Jeff get the boot does anyone really know besides the mods?


----------



## Stephanie P Johnson

>>>You have been banned for the following reason:
to long, to far. "bringing forum up" isn't a good reason to have you staying on, paying is sure not in the question...

Date the ban will be lifted: Never


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

*Re: Bring back jeff o! - not*

i'll go 5 but not 9.

what i want to know is; why is that the girls can get away with making jokes about the size of mens reproductive organs and it's socially acceptable in polite culture but if a male makes same jokes about the size of female reproductive organs its like totally bad - thats equality - not. i guess large wouldn't be something to be bragging about. just askin?

BTW do u get told yr going to be banned or u just can't log on one day?


----------



## Sandra King

Chris McDonald said:


> OK, thanks for letting us know all that


yeah, great... since you were the one that suggested it must have been an overweight SAR woman who complained about Jeff....so he got booted off here. 

You know, I doubt it was complains. It was his on damn self that got himself kicked off of here.


----------



## Laney Rein

Peter - why is it ok that all nasty jokes are about naked women with big boobs and all the pics that get circulated on the web (ie fat girl being ridden at party posted on here) are women with big boobs hanging out? I don't object, heck I even buy my husband playboy - but you don't see many girls or women making funny jokes or passing pics of men's repro parts on emails or website or for that matter on TV - but it's a-ok to show all of a female on TV? Just askin. I'm always hanging out with the ropers and heard some pretty raunchy jokes and don't get offended. So I don't think that's a fair assumption. I think everyone has a right to certain proclivaties but offending someone else everytime you open your mouth is not a liberty. Everyone has a right to their opinions, but if they hurt someone else, keep them to yourself.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Laney Rein said:


> Peter - why is it ok that all nasty jokes are about naked women with big boobs and all the pics that get circulated on the web (ie fat girl being ridden at party posted on here) are women with big boobs hanging out? I don't object, heck I even buy my husband playboy - but you don't see many girls or women making funny jokes or passing pics of men's repro parts on emails or website or for that matter on TV - but it's a-ok to show all of a female on TV? Just askin. I'm always hanging out with the ropers and heard some pretty raunchy jokes and don't get offended. So I don't think that's a fair assumption. I think everyone has a right to certain proclivaties but offending someone else everytime you open your mouth is not a liberty. Everyone has a right to their opinions, but if they hurt someone else, keep them to yourself.


Why would you stock your husbands spank bank ?


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

sure agree, but as an experiment get a guy to make a joke like i mentioned and see how long he would last here or anywhere, he might even face legal action - seems like a double standard. 

who said women couldn't post pics of fat guys being ridden at a party - go ahead. 

personally i wouldn't post either nor would i find them particularly amusing but i don't think u would have a problem if u wanted to do so JMO.


----------



## Joby Becker

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Why would you stock your husbands spank bank ?


playboy is a waste of space....go to any truckstop you'll see 30 better magazines for the bank...


----------



## Laney Rein

Oh, and when I said Little Boys - I meant CHILDREN! no size reference


----------



## James Idi

> He's got such great knowledge, could inspire people for real and all he does is bullying people on an internet forum and people applaud him for that.


/shrug

How exactly does one get "bullied" on a forum? There is NO requirement to respond to ANY reply from ANY forum member, and comments that lack logic, reason, or common sense related to the issue at hand, can be easily ignored by ANY forum member.

I don't post often.

I am currently without a dog.

However, I still read this forum because it has provided a wealth of information on a wide variety of dog related subjects I was not familiar with from a very diverse group of folks. Jeff O, and his experience with mondio, being one of them. I appreciate the information, and the cast of characters that have provided it, as it will help me in the future with my own dog and training.

I never met the muldoon, however, he has proven to be passionate about his sport, and I appreciate his blunt approach to many of the issues he has addressed.


----------



## Ben Thompson

*Re: Bring back jeff o! - not*



Peter Cavallaro said:


> i'll go 5 but not 9.
> 
> what i want to know is; why is that the girls can get away with making jokes about the size of mens reproductive organs and it's socially acceptable in polite culture but if a male makes same jokes about the size of female reproductive organs its like totally bad - thats equality - not. i guess large wouldn't be something to be bragging about. just askin?
> 
> BTW do u get told yr going to be banned or u just can't log on one day?


Probably because men laugh at each other women laugh with each other...and they know how out of control things get when men start cracking the sex jokes. LOL


----------



## Laney Rein

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Why would you stock your husbands spank bank ?


Why should he have to hide the fact that I know he's probably reading them anyway? A little spice in life never hurt the hen!


----------



## Laney Rein

Joby Becker said:


> playboy is a waste of space....go to any truckstop you'll see 30 better magazines for the bank...


Joby - can't buy them thru Publisher's Clearing House!


----------



## Bob Scott

This post is about bring back Jeff. 
Lets keep it to that!


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Bob Scott said:


> This post is about bring back Jeff.
> Lets keep it to that!


Then just do it ..he's winning the poll and unless oprah gets involved the percentage won't change much.


----------



## Laney Rein

I think as a refresher, we should all re read the rules of conduct on this forum. I just did and opened my eyes. I must apologize to Bob for helping to derail this thread and using sexual inuendoes. Might surprise everyone what is allowed and not and what gets over looked by the mods in good faith.


----------



## Thomas Jones

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Then just do it ..he's winning the poll and unless oprah gets involved the percentage won't change much.


Birds of a feather fly together. You and Jeff are basically the same. I don't think I've ever seen you make a comment about training dogs. Usually you just have some smartass remark.


----------



## Kellie Wolverton

Hmmmm...could Christopher Fox actually have been Jeff? Or just an odd coincidence that CF is also banned?


----------



## Shane Woodlief

I agree with what one poster wrote on how can you be bullied on a forum. Don't read his stuff if you don't like him or what he says - why take something so personal. Yes Jeff is straight to the point but it is his point if you don't like what he says then skip it. 

There are all kinds of people on this thread from all different places in life and in all different shapes and sizes and think one of the mistakes that people make is inferring tones in emails and post. Jeff and I have had several conversations where in the beginning I thought man that is a strong or out tough and when I pushed back or explained myself better he would say "no one gets my humor I was just trying to be funny". I honestly thinks some off what he says is tongue-n-cheek off the cuff humor. I honestly believe he wants people to succeed even if it comes off rough and blunt.

Let him back on mods!


----------



## Laney Rein

*9. No personal attacks, threats, or insults.*
If you cannot say it in polite company, don't. People should be able to come here and post without feeling like they will be attacked. Keep in mind that real names, real careers, real training experience, and real locations are posted here...it is quite easy for someone to feel very threatened by what you say. So think twice, post once.

*11. Moderators are the final arbiters of thread issues and content.
*Respect their decisions, or at least, abide by them. Moderators may, at their discretion, edit post content, delete posts, or lock entire threads. They do not like doing any of these things. Moderators as a group may ban individuals, and an excellent way to be banned is to be a continual focus of moderation


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Kellie Wolverton said:


> Hmmmm...could Christopher Fox actually have been Jeff? Or just an odd coincidence that CF is also banned?


 
CF got banned to?


----------



## Christopher Jones

Thomas Jones said:


> Birds of a feather fly together. You and Jeff are basically the same. I don't think I've ever seen you make a comment about training dogs. Usually you just have some smartass remark.


But in Gerrys defence, his remarks are quite funny.


----------



## Jim Nash

Shane Woodlief said:


> I think it is hilarious how this is about getting Jeff back and most of the thread is about some girl doing SAR that brings up (she - herself) the fact that she is fat and people agreeing with her that she is fat and then she is getting upset with those people who agreeing with her she is fat because she is actually "healthy" on the inside and "beauty" is only skin deep stuff - and Jeff is not even here - now that's funny.
> 
> I think Jeff is a great guy with a lot of knowledge again private correspondence I found him very helpful.
> 
> Truth is - I think that he and others like him are a dying breed of people who call a spade a spade and realize a dog is a dog and not your BFF and shot straight.
> 
> This is becoming very unpopular by thin skinned - politically correct - everyone is a winner and should get a trophy - bunch of mellow dramatic a$$ holes that are too stupid to understand that controversy, conflict and struggle is what makes you better, stronger and produces a better you. It is people calling you fat that encourages you to get off the couch - put the bag of chips away, turn off Hell's Kitchen - take a walk - loose some weight - live longer and be a better person.
> 
> Banning Jeff is a bad move.


Honestly I think all of this talk is for nothing . But I agree with you . 

All anyone has to do is read the discussions on this forum when they sign up to know what they are getting into . It has been this way for awhile . If it's a touchy feely forum you want there are others already out there that do that . Not sure why this one has to be like others out there already . It's nice to have options . I saw another forum go that route that I liked alot . I didn't complain on that forum because it seemed like the majority of it's members wanted that type of forum . They are happy and that's cool . 

I had an option to come here and get involved in discussions where at times you better be prepared to back your comments up and ego stroking , agreeing when you don't really and more pet related issues didn't come up as much . Just look at the poll here to get an idea of where this forum is at . 

When I saw Jeff's " Summer of Terror " signature I figured it was only a matter of time . I don't think Jeff was " Christopher " . Didn't seem his style . Though if he was fake it was pretty funny seeing him taken seriously . I think " Christopher " was a real Kook . 

Jeff got into it with someone else and I think that was the last draw . 

Like so many other things this forum will move on and won't crumble without him , where it goes is another story .


----------



## Christopher Jones

I have not heard any of Jeffs supporters mention the Children. Not one. Have any of you thought about the children?


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

Christopher Jones said:


> I have not heard any of Jeffs supporters mention the Children. Not one. Have any of you thought about the children?


 
whats the "children" thing all about?


----------



## Guest

Thomas Jones said:


> Birds of a feather fly together. You and Jeff are basically the same. I don't think I've ever seen you make a comment about training dogs. Usually you just have some smartass remark.


And this is a WORKING dog forum, why is more than half the threads in the last 6 months more of a social network type and have nothing to do with working dogs, its BS!


----------



## Guest

Jim Nash said:


> Honestly I think all of this talk is for nothing . But I agree with you .
> 
> All anyone has to do is read the discussions on this forum when they sign up to know what they are getting into . It has been this way for awhile . If it's a touchy feely forum you want there are others already out there that do that . Not sure why this one has to be like others out there already . It's nice to have options . I saw another forum go that route that I liked alot . I didn't complain on that forum because it seemed like the majority of it's members wanted that type of forum . They are happy and that's cool .
> 
> I had an option to come here and get involved in discussions where at times you better be prepared to back your comments up and ego stroking , agreeing when you don't really and more pet related issues didn't come up as much . Just look at the poll here to get an idea of where this forum is at .
> 
> When I saw Jeff's " Summer of Terror " signature I figured it was only a matter of time . I don't think Jeff was " Christopher " . Didn't seem his style . Though if he was fake it was pretty funny seeing him taken seriously . I think " Christopher " was a real Kook .
> 
> Jeff got into it with someone else and I think that was the last draw .
> 
> Like so many other things this forum will move on and won't crumble without him , where it goes is another story .


 
This forum has been crumbling....rules or no rules it seems to be like a facebook page now, I really enjoyed it a while back when discussions were about working venues, training etc, we have left that behind...

and like everything else in society today, someone snivels and they get there way regardless!


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Jody Butler said:


> And this is a WORKING dog forum, why is more than half the threads in the last 6 months more of a social network type and have nothing to do with working dogs, its BS!


100% agree with you Jody. Can you tweet your post to my blueberry and eye pad 2, so I can download it to my Facebook and Linkn In pages? ;-)


----------



## Thomas Barriano

This whole Jeff banning is much ado about nothing. There are 5K WDF members and 100 people have voted. Most people don't care.
Even if you liked Jeff or were entertained by his antics. How many second changes does the guy get? We had this same "lets bring back Jeff" movement after he got banned the last time and he obviously didn't learn anything :-(


----------



## Guest

Thomas Barriano said:


> This whole Jeff banning is much ado about nothing. There are 5K WDF members and 100 people have voted. Most people don't care.
> Even if you liked Jeff or were entertained by his antics. How many second changes does the guy get? We had this same "lets bring back Jeff" movement after he got banned the last time and he obviously didn't learn anything :-(


Not going to agree with you, but percentages again don't mean much to me, but numbers do! How many of the 5K members are on here and post? Post what? BS, hi molly look at my dog, the same BS over and over again. 

When and if he or anyone posts something stupid, funny, or slanderish, I can choose to reply OR IGNORE! At least the majority of what he posted was about working dogs, whether you agree with his posts or not. 

There was never no hidden agenda either, he was just brutally honest in his opinion.


----------



## Guest

Someone mentioned earlier marketing and buisness.....Well when you look at the hits this thread got in less than 24hrs....hmmm, it's not because of me thats for sure


----------



## Anne Vaini

james mackey said:


> You can tell by the poll results and the view count that he was an integral part of this forum. Were do we all go now?


Back to training dogs. Like we used to do here years ago.


----------



## Keith Jenkins

Not sure how I managed to do it without Jeff's input but I've put a SchH3, FH and StP.1-3 on one Rottweiler and put SchH1-3, BH and AD on another since I've been a member of this board. So yeah training can and is done without the help of Jeff.


----------



## Jim Duncan

Well you can't say he wasn't warned and warned and warned again. I'm a little disapointed because I have been trying to find one of those great training threads he supposedly has posted. Well, they seem to be as elusive as Bigfoot.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Thomas Barriano said:


> This whole Jeff banning is much ado about nothing. There are 5K WDF members and 100 people have voted. Most people don't care.
> Even if you liked Jeff or were entertained by his antics. How many second changes does the guy get? We had this same "lets bring back Jeff" movement after he got banned the last time and he obviously didn't learn anything :-(


Gotta agree with Thomas. 

Add a "don't care" option to the poll and you might see more than 2% of the membership here actually voting. I wouldn't vote yes, but I wouldn't vote no either, there is an ignore feature and I know how to use it.

If the board can't survive without Jeff's version of "humor", it wasn't much of a board to begin with. I'm sure someone else will step up to fill the gap. With 5000+ members the loss of any one member shouldn't have any major effect on the board, regardless of who they are, or what their post count was.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Classic "pussification of America". I like Jeff and tolk to him off and on, but, Jeff is a big boy. There are just times thart even getting booted is worth getting a point across. Having so many sitt around and cry about it is laughable. I get the feeling he was an idol to many. All those votes against....well you can bet he said something to most of them.
This isn't going to make me very popular but there has been many comments of the board going downhill as of late. The substance of the posts going down hill. Why..... same reason many boards such as the Versatile dog board, balance Trainers and others have gone in the toilet. Women and feminine type men complain to the mods. They whine and snivel. Boards with too much feminine influence lose substance that is worth reading many times. Today, it is getting hard to tell the guys from the ladies anyway the way they snivel.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Thomas Jones said:


> Birds of a feather fly together. You and Jeff are basically the same. I don't think I've ever seen you make a comment about training dogs. Usually you just have some smartass remark.


You know Thomas, words can hurt.


----------



## Chris Jones II

I say good riddance. Yeah, it looks like he has said offensive things to anyone on the forum that had enough confidence to even just think about standing up to his barnstorming, unnecessarily aggressive mind control tactics. His contributions were limited to posting other people's videos, regurgitating other people's ideas and making jokes. I don't see how people can think he contributed very much at all. I still haven't learn a thing from his rantings, not even when I look through old discussions or anything. I'm happy that guy is gone. Maybe the forum will be more boring for those that come here looking for entertainment, but I for one come here for information and couldn't care less that his rude and angry comments will no longer detract from discussions. 

Some of you might call not being a jackass "sniveling" but I call it decency.


----------



## Kara Fitzpatrick

damn. bring him back!


----------



## Sandra King

> Women and feminine type men complain to the mods. They whine and snivel. * Boards with too much feminine influence lose substance that is worth reading many times.*


Then why don't you open your own forum that is only allowed for men.


Women can be twice as much of an hardass as you _think _you are. 

The only thing I can see here is ignorance!


----------



## Cassandra Lane

I would like to make a point about a reason that could be contributing to the forum gone to the toilet. How long has this forum been here? How long have the core members been here, argueing about the same thing-dogs. How many times or ways can you argue about the pros and cons of table training, the way a helper should work a puppy, the way to train the dumbell, the proper way to exectute a vehicle extraction. How many times has one of you posted something and _known _a particular person was going to comment in a specific way, and it happened. You need new blood here!
I am going to start trying to think of good conversation topics. They will probably be shitty but I am going to try. The thing is, I'm sure it has all been discussed before. That is why you get a few good answers and then it turns into a facebook page of ribbing and laughter. You guys are bored argueing about the same things over and over again...


----------



## Sandra King

Cassandra Lane said:


> I would like to make a point about a reason that could be contributing to the forum gone to the toilet. How long has this forum been here? How long have the core members been here, argueing about the same thing-dogs. How many times or ways can you argue about the pros and cons of table training, the way a helper should work a puppy, the way to train the dumbell, the proper way to exectute a vehicle extraction. How many times has one of you posted something and _known _a particular person was going to comment in a specific way, and it happened. You need new blood here!
> I am going to start trying to think of good conversation topics. They will probably be shitty but I am going to try. The thing is, I'm sure it has all been discussed before. That is why you get a few good answers and then it turns into a facebook page of ribbing and laughter. You guys are bored argueing about the same things over and over again...



That is pretty much the issue of every forum, doesn't matter what it is about. There are certain topics that can only be argued and discussed for so many times. It's nobodies fault. I've seen the same thing on the German Working Dog Forum, on a Horse Forum and a D&D Forum. You are right. Rules, Desciplines, Training Methods, Techniques, No-Gos... Nutrition, HD, DM, other medical conditions. Heartguard or Interceptor, Advantix or Frontline... what people think about this or that stud, positive re-inforcement versus pressure... it's all been there, it's all discussed about and people can talk about it only so many times.

Plus it's summertime and break. So Forums usually slow down during that time anyways.


----------



## Molly Graf

<yes, he's banned permanently.l>

Good. Very glad to hear it. Finally.

I for one believe this forum will be far more constructive and allow far more people to contribute without knowing (without a doubt) that Jeff will trash you and your dogs and basically ruin every thread. This is a good forum, can be much much better now without the "entertainment" at others' expenses. IMO.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

God forbid that he die of a heart attack in a hot pool full of strippers, then you'd all be typin with a big snot bubble coming out your noses and saying how much you miss him.


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff

Bring Jeff Back! 



Sandra King said:


> Then why don't you open your own forum that is only allowed for men.


There are always those who would only like their own personal preference in rules applied. That would be unfortunate; these are the kinds of things that get us into trouble, as a forum, community and nation. All individuality seems punished or feared. The true derogatory statement is "go somewhere else - and I'd rather have someone else send you there because I don't like you."

How many times did those of you who didn't like Jeff's comments tell him to go pound sand of your own accord, versus keeping your toesies crossed hoping for big bad mod to do the job for you? I saw beauty in individual personal names being exposed; it limited much of the dysfunctional behavior, but it also gave air to those who live by the courage of their convictions. You can always ignore people. I try to . 



Sandra King said:


> Women can be twice as much of an hardass as you _think _you are.


This comment is gender baiting, and indicative of a fairly passive aggressive stance in my opinion. As a male, I find it bothersome - and I've made no derogatory comments on this site about women or fat people that would be deemed offensive. If I were to live by the intent of these types of comments, I'd ask for the user to be banned by a mod for baiting gender comparisons. 

Jeff engaged in the same type of behavior, but it seems that he was banned for it. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander, no? 

Prostate cancer has twice the incidence of Breast cancer, in illnesses or deaths related, yet it gets half the funding due to various reasons; men no longer "speak up". Let them die, right? They're too aggressive when they talk anyway. They don't make particularly good firemen, policemen, or military service people anyway; we shouldn't be involved in wars to begin with. It's OK to have Susan G Komen everywhere, but we don't talk about prostate cancer. We celebrate women's organizations everywhere, but chuckle when men get turned down from working at Hooters; we attack the boy scouts for being a boys only organization, and the Elks and Moose lodges are often considered sexist, all while promoting women only organizations. What do we want for the men in our lives? To shut up and sit down? That will do tons against heroics...

While we do see women "serving" and "being hardasses", it's sad to see the behavior punished by those who would lack the courage or conviction to show up to run through a door in a building that's on fire, or a domestic violence call, or a war with people playing target shooting in both directions. I've been involved in more than one of those scenarios, with a much smaller if non existent percentage of women participating in them. So, I find the comment subjective, inaccurate, and insulting. 

See how that works? 



Sandra King said:


> The only thing I can see here is ignorance!


And the only thing I can see is...baiting.


----------



## Sandra King

> This comment is gender baiting, and indicative of a fairly passive aggressive stance in my opinion. As a male, I find it bothersome - and I've made no derogatory comments on this site about women or fat people that would be deemed offensive. If I were to live by the intent of these types of comments, I'd ask for the user to be banned by a mod for baiting gender comparisons.
> 
> Jeff engaged in the same type of behavior, but it seems that he was banned for it. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander, no?


You know, maybe you should tell that those people who think that women are the reason that this forum is going downhill. If those folks wouldn't be so ignorant to the fact that it has nothing to do with genders at all and that it has nothing to do with "feminine men" either, we'd actually make a step forward. 

but it's really hard not to get aggressive on this forum with all those wannabe folks who think they are so rough&tough and that insults, belittling people and calling somebody out for weight, is the only way to keep this forum interesting and entertaining. 

It's driving the good people away from this place.


----------



## Christopher Smith

> This is a good forum, can be much much better now without the "entertainment" at others' expenses. IMO.


I agree completely.

Maybe the reason this forum has lost something is because too many threads are polluted with nonsense and Jeff was the catalyst for a lot of it. He came to the party, insulted too many of the guest, and the host kicked his ass out. 

Maybe this is a blessing for Jeff. Now he can spend more time training. He might even raise and title a dog someday.


----------



## Guest

molly graf said:


> <yes, he's banned permanently.l>
> 
> good. Very glad to hear it. Finally.
> 
> I for one believe this forum will be far more constructive and allow far more people to contribute without knowing (without a doubt) that jeff will trash you and your dogs and basically ruin every thread. This is a good forum, can be much much better now without the "entertainment" at others' expenses. Imo.


 
go figure you of all would say that, didn't suprise me at all


----------



## Laney Rein

Don Turnipseed said:


> Classic "pussification of America". I like Jeff and tolk to him off and on, but, Jeff is a big boy. There are just times thart even getting booted is worth getting a point across. Having so many sitt around and cry about it is laughable. I get the feeling he was an idol to many. All those votes against....well you can bet he said something to most of them.
> This isn't going to make me very popular but there has been many comments of the board going downhill as of late. The substance of the posts going down hill. Why..... same reason many boards such as the Versatile dog board, balance Trainers and others have gone in the toilet. Women and feminine type men complain to the mods. They whine and snivel. Boards with too much feminine influence lose substance that is worth reading many times. Today, it is getting hard to tell the guys from the ladies anyway the way they snivel.





Molly Graf said:


> <yes, he's banned permanently.l>
> 
> Good. Very glad to hear it. Finally. AMEN MOLLY
> 
> I for one believe this forum will be far more constructive and allow far more people to contribute without knowing (without a doubt) that Jeff will trash you and your dogs and basically ruin every thread. This is a good forum, can be much much better now without the "entertainment" at others' expenses. IMO.


IF YOU GO BACK Thru ALL OF JEFF'S responses for 5 years he has never contributed a serious answer. They're all slashes, trashes, cutdowns, bad jokes and bad videos. Not 1 helpful constructive comment. So those mentioned must have been pms. He has never said anything of training value - reason his is not welcome on other forums.


----------



## Guest

Laney Rein said:


> IF YOU GO BACK Thru ALL OF JEFF'S responses for 5 years he has never contributed a serious answer. They're all slashes, trashes, cutdowns, bad jokes and bad videos. Not 1 helpful constructive comment. So those mentioned must have been pms. He has never said anything of training value - reason his is not welcome on other forums.


 
Maybe! :lol:


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Sandra King said:


> You know, maybe you should tell that those people who think that women are the reason that this forum is going downhill. If those folks wouldn't be so ignorant to the fact that it has nothing to do with genders at all and that it has nothing to do with "feminine men" either, we'd actually make a step forward.
> 
> but it's really hard not to get aggressive on this forum with all those wannabe folks who think they are so rough&tough and that insults, belittling people and calling somebody out for weight, is the only way to keep this forum interesting and entertaining.
> 
> It's driving the good people away from this place.


Sandra, I do have my own board, but, I let women have their say as long as it is sensible. I have said many times that dogs are much like people in regards to behavior. There was a thread recently, put up by a novice obviously, about why two of their dogs jump into any fight that other dogs start. Why? Because they are dogs. This is the type of question you see more and more of here. Person had 4 dogs and hasn't figured that out yet. You react like your dogs react. I say something you see as derogatory and you go on the attack. Many of you could learn more from the dogs themselves than you ever will being on these forums because it always comes down to "you" instead of the dogs. I do value what many of the women say, but you have to admit, when they say fat is just as healthy....something is wrong. Here is one. My "puppy chews concrete".


----------



## Faisal Khan

Christopher Smith said:


> Maybe this is a blessing for Jeff. Now he can spend more time training. He might even raise and title a dog someday.


Umm, Nah.


----------



## Laura Bollschweiler

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Prostate cancer has twice the incidence of Breast cancer, in illnesses or deaths related, yet it gets half the funding due to various reasons; men no longer "speak up". Let them die, right? They're too aggressive when they talk anyway. They don't make particularly good firemen, policemen, or military service people anyway; we shouldn't be involved in wars to begin with. It's OK to have Susan G Komen everywhere, but we don't talk about prostate cancer.


I think you need to check your statistics re cancer rates.

Laura


----------



## Shane Woodlief

Laney Rein said:


> *9. No personal attacks, threats, or insults.*
> If you cannot say it in polite company, don't. People should be able to come here and post without feeling like they will be attacked. Keep in mind that real names, real careers, real training experience, and real locations are posted here...it is quite easy for someone to feel very threatened by what you say. So think twice, post once.
> 
> *11. Moderators are the final arbiters of thread issues and content.
> *Respect their decisions, or at least, abide by them. Moderators may, at their discretion, edit post content, delete posts, or lock entire threads. They do not like doing any of these things. Moderators as a group may ban individuals, and an excellent way to be banned is to be a continual focus of moderation


I bet you were a hall monitor when you were is school. You know one of those kids recruited by the teachers to patrol the hallways and turn in their class mates for school hallway violations :lol:


----------



## Mario Fernandez

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/disparities/cancer-health-dispa


----------



## Shane Woodlief

I am still laughing at the fact that gender, obesity, bullying and now cancer is on a bring Jeff back thread and he is not here to stir it all up - seems like their is quite a few people on here that have an abundance of the same issues of mud slinging and thread derailment that you are accusing Jeff of. Mods shut us all down


----------



## Michelle Reusser

Lloyd Kasakoff said:


> Bring Jeff Back!
> 
> 
> 
> There are always those who would only like their own personal preference in rules applied. That would be unfortunate; these are the kinds of things that get us into trouble, as a forum, community and nation. All individuality seems punished or feared. The true derogatory statement is "go somewhere else - and I'd rather have someone else send you there because I don't like you."
> 
> How many times did those of you who didn't like Jeff's comments tell him to go pound sand of your own accord, versus keeping your toesies crossed hoping for big bad mod to do the job for you? I saw beauty in individual personal names being exposed; it limited much of the dysfunctional behavior, but it also gave air to those who live by the courage of their convictions. You can always ignore people. I try to .
> 
> 
> 
> This comment is gender baiting, and indicative of a fairly passive aggressive stance in my opinion. As a male, I find it bothersome - and I've made no derogatory comments on this site about women or fat people that would be deemed offensive. If I were to live by the intent of these types of comments, I'd ask for the user to be banned by a mod for baiting gender comparisons.
> 
> Jeff engaged in the same type of behavior, but it seems that he was banned for it. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander, no?
> 
> Prostate cancer has twice the incidence of Breast cancer, in illnesses or deaths related, yet it gets half the funding due to various reasons; men no longer "speak up". Let them die, right? They're too aggressive when they talk anyway. They don't make particularly good firemen, policemen, or military service people anyway; we shouldn't be involved in wars to begin with. It's OK to have Susan G Komen everywhere, but we don't talk about prostate cancer. We celebrate women's organizations everywhere, but chuckle when men get turned down from working at Hooters; we attack the boy scouts for being a boys only organization, and the Elks and Moose lodges are often considered sexist, all while promoting women only organizations. What do we want for the men in our lives? To shut up and sit down? That will do tons against heroics...
> 
> While we do see women "serving" and "being hardasses", it's sad to see the behavior punished by those who would lack the courage or conviction to show up to run through a door in a building that's on fire, or a domestic violence call, or a war with people playing target shooting in both directions. I've been involved in more than one of those scenarios, with a much smaller if non existent percentage of women participating in them. So, I find the comment subjective, inaccurate, and insulting.
> 
> See how that works?
> 
> 
> 
> And the only thing I can see is...baiting.


 
I'm all for dudes working at Hooters, just please God don't let them wear the same orange shorts as the gals! =;


----------



## Laney Rein

Shane Woodlief said:


> I bet you were a hall monitor when you were is school. You know one of those kids recruited by the teachers to patrol the hallways and turn in their class mates for school hallway violations :lol:




Nope just answering everyone's question as to probably WHY JEFF WAS BANNED as he fits all parameters. You seem to be whining a lot, maybe you want to take his place. I'm just one of the NO votes.


----------



## Sandra King

Don Turnipseed said:


> Sandra, I do have my own board, but, I let women have their say as long as it is sensible. I have said many times that dogs are much like people in regards to behavior. There was a thread recently, put up by a novice obviously, about why two of their dogs jump into any fight that other dogs start. Why? Because they are dogs. This is the type of question you see more and more of here. Person had 4 dogs and hasn't figured that out yet. You react like your dogs react. I say something you see as derogatory and you go on the attack. Many of you could learn more from the dogs themselves than you ever will being on these forums because it always comes down to "you" instead of the dogs. I do value what many of the women say, but you have to admit, when they say fat is just as healthy....something is wrong. Here is one. My "puppy chews concrete".


That is very true. I've noticed that there are quite a few novices around lately and ask questions that should be no-brainers but even novices have got to start somewhere. We've all been novices at some point in either way or another. I probably ask SAR questions where some people roll with their eyes but I am new at SAR and new in this country and there is a significant difference of not only mentalities but especially when it comes up to politics. I don't even want to know how many toes I stepped on simply because I am, sometimes, a little "to German" LOL. 

However, what I ment with "fat doesn't have to do anything with being healthy or fit" was that a fat person can be just as healthy as a skinny person. 

There are skinny people out there that are a lot unhealthier than some of the bigger people. 

Just because somebody is skinny and slim doesn't mean they are fit and healthy and just because somebody is 10 pounds overweight (and don't get me started on that, in this country, if you ain't size 0 you are fat already) doesn't mean they are unhealthy and unfit.


----------



## Shane Woodlief

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I'm all for dudes working at Hooters, just please God don't let them wear the same orange shorts as the gals! =;


Funny thing is there was a guy in Philly a bunch of years ago that tried to become a hooter waitress and tried to take them to court over it -obviously lost.

You could call it "Shooters" I am bad and I apologize now!


----------



## Laney Rein

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I'm all for dudes working at Hooters, just please God don't let them wear the same orange shorts as the gals! =;




What a thought! Hopefully their chicken wings and clams will be as good.


----------



## Shane Woodlief

Laney Rein said:


> Nope just answering everyone's question as to probably WHY JEFF WAS BANNED as he fits all parameters. You seem to be whining a lot, maybe you want to take his place. I'm just one of the NO votes.


You are taking yourself way too seriously! I was joking hence the laughing smiley face! People need to chill and as far as taking Jeff's place might want to be careful what you wish for.


----------



## Doug Zaga

We should request Mike S. open up a Paypal account so we can contirubute to Jeff's Defense Fund! Maybe we could purchase an ad/banner!

Bring Back *Jeff the F*#K Head!*


----------



## Shane Woodlief

Sandra King said:


> That is very true. I've noticed that there are quite a few novices around lately and ask questions that should be no-brainers but even novices have got to start somewhere. We've all been novices at some point in either way or another. I probably ask SAR questions where some people roll with their eyes but I am new at SAR and new in this country and there is a significant difference of not only mentalities but especially when it comes up to politics. I don't even want to know how many toes I stepped on simply because I am, sometimes, a little "to German" LOL.
> 
> However, what I ment with "fat doesn't have to do anything with being healthy or fit" was that a fat person can be just as healthy as a skinny person.
> 
> There are skinny people out there that are a lot unhealthier than some of the bigger people.
> 
> Just because somebody is skinny and slim doesn't mean they are fit and healthy and just because somebody is 10 pounds overweight (and don't get me started on that, in this country, if you ain't size 0 you are fat already) doesn't mean they are unhealthy and unfit.


#-oYou really need to stop - why do you keep talking about your weight! I don't even know how to say it nicely - you are setting yourself up for negativity and harsh treatment. Can't you see that. I am not being mean here nor am I angry just trying to help. 

You can have conversation about SAR all you want but it is hard to discuss stuff with you or people to take you seriously if you keep throwing your weight comments into it. Your weight would have never been discussed had you yourself not made it an issue for everyone to talk about. 

The vindication that you are looking for you will not get here or anywhere else that can only come from within.


----------



## Laney Rein

Shane Woodlief said:


> You are taking yourself way too seriously! I was joking hence the laughing smiley face! People need to chill and as far as taking Jeff's place might want to be careful what you wish for.



Hardly a wish of mine Shane. See the smiley 

Mods have made a decision. Whether it be temporary or ..
. Why can't we just get back to being a dog forum?


----------



## Sandra King

Shane Woodlief said:


> #-oYou really need to stop - why do you keep talking about your weight! I don't even know how to say it nicely - you are setting yourself up for negativity and harsh treatment. Can't you see that. I am not being mean here nor am I angry just trying to help.
> 
> You can have conversation about SAR all you want but it is hard to discuss stuff with you or people to take you seriously if you keep throwing your weight comments into it. Your weight would have never been discussed had you yourself not made it an issue for everyone to talk about.
> 
> The vindication that you are looking for you will not get here or anywhere else that can only come from within.




And you don't seem to get that I have not been talking about my weight. I clarified my earlier comment. That's all. You know what they say about assuming things, right?


----------



## Michelle Reusser

I'm not voting because as Katy put it "I don't care", nor do I think it's our place to. The Mods run the show. We all know Jeff goes a bit too far sometimes and he has been warned, put in time out and had threads locked or modified time and again. If I was a mod, my patience would have worn thin long ago. There are rules and most of us already bend them. Jeff breaks them, twists them up and tries to shove them where the sun don't shine.

I have had my ass handed to me by him and handed it right back. His manner doesn't bother me, I was raised in a family full of assclowns that talk the same way. Shit I talk the same way at home, but know I gotta tone it down for the rest of the world. If I didn't I'd get food that was spit on and never get or keep a job. There are too many thin skins out there these days, I'll agree, but still there are rules here and everywhere for that matter and we have to keep that in mind.

Mods do what ya gotta do. Hopefully we can get back to talking dogs and training. It's OK to have fun but irritating when every thread gets off track. 

Those of you that love Jeff, ya ought to know where and how to find him elsewhere. Try PDB or Working K9 Forum. Jeff will live on online!


----------



## maggie fraser

Sandra King said:


> And you don't seem to get that I have not been talking about my weight. I clarified my earlier comment. That's all. You know what they say about assuming things, right?


Sandra, I have really quite liked some of your input and your perspective regarding dogs...I also don't give a toss about what folks weigh, whether they are male or female. But....every post you are making on here just serves to clarify Don's point, and quite frankly he could do without that help.  Please just let the weight thing go, you may find folks follow suit.

Back to the Jeff comeback folks, thread is being derailed in case you hadn't all noticed #-o :grin:.


----------



## Lloyd Kasakoff

Laura Bollschweiler said:


> I think you need to check your statistics re cancer rates.
> 
> Laura


 Est new both sexes male Female Est Death both Male Female
Breast 232,620 2,140 230,480 39,970 450 39,520
Prostrate 240,890 - 240,890 - 33,720 - 33,720

So...the incidence is higher, the death rate is slightly lower according to this year's numbers - I had a different study, but now I reviewed ACS' numbers for this year. 

Laura, you're absolutely right. 

"People with prostate cancer generally encounter significant disparities in awareness, funding, media coverage, and research—and therefore, inferior treatment and poorer outcomes—compared to other cancers of equal prevalence. In 2001 The Guardian noted that Britain had *3,000* nurses specializing in breast cancer, *compared to only one for prostate cancer.* It also discovered that the waiting time between referral and diagnosis was *two weeks for breast cancer* but *three months for prostate cancer*. A 2007 report by The National Prostate Cancer Coalition stated that *for every prostate cancer drug on the market, there were seven used to treat breast cancer. *The Times also noted an *"anti-male bias in cancer funding"* with a four to one discrepancy in the United Kingdom by both the government and by cancer charities such as Cancer Research UK. Equality campaigners such as author Warren Farrell cite such stark spending inequalities as a clear example of governments unfairly favouring women's health over men's health.

Disparities also extend into areas such as detection, with governments failing to fund or mandate prostate cancer screening whilst fully supporting breast cancer programs. For example, a 2007 report found *49 U.S. states mandate insurance coverage for routine breast cancer screening, compared to 28 for prostate cancer.* Prostate cancer also experiences significantly less media coverage than other, equally prevalent cancers, with a study by Prostate Coalition showing 2.6 breast cancer stories for each one covering cancer of the prostate.

In fiscal year 2009, breast cancer research received $872 million worth of federal funding, while prostate cancer received $390 million. It is estimated that fiscal year 2010 will end similarly, with breast cancer research getting *$891* million and prostate cancer research receiving *$399* million.

“The women’s vote in this country is a very important vote for a lot of politicians. So if they’re out there advocating for their cause and you hear from a thousand women in your district about breast cancer, you’re going to care about it a lot more,” Johnson said. “I can produce maybe two or three guys in any given district.”

You bet. Shall we argue for equality some more?

“The women’s vote in this country is a very important vote for a lot of politicians. So if they’re out there advocating for their cause and you hear from a thousand women in your district about breast cancer, you’re going to care about it a lot more,” Johnson said. “I can produce maybe two or three guys in any given district.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/10/05/b...pite-similar-number-of-victims/#ixzz1RGERxA7X

So we can talk about women's style, communication skills, social skills, etc...all you want. 

The reality is that Jeff, with all his flaws (and like all of us, he has some - man, he's one creepy looking player)  ....is still a man, behaving as a more vocal representative of the gender, and to address the comments about weight, femeninity, passive aggressiveness and more, I thought it appropriate to provide a comparison on cancer rates. We can continue squelching men some more. They don't need a voice anyway. 

My opinion? Slap him on the wrist, have him provide apologies or regrets if applicable as a term, and let's get back to our regular channel.


----------



## Sandra King

maggie fraser said:


> Sandra, I have really quite liked some of your input and your perspective regarding dogs...I also don't give a toss about what folks weigh, whether they are male or female. But....every post you are making on here just serves to clarify Don's point, and quite frankly he could do without that help.  Please just let the weight thing go, you may find folks follow suit.
> 
> Back to the Jeff comeback folks, thread is being derailed in case you hadn't all noticed #-o :grin:.



Well, I am honestly sorry then and apologize for the confusion


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Somehow I think there is a humerous sort of "justice" that the thread ABOUT Jeff is being derailed. LOL.


----------



## Guest

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Somehow I think there is a humerous sort of "justice" that the thread ABOUT Jeff is being derailed. LOL.


What I find interesting is Don T post.........


----------



## maggie fraser

Sandra King said:


> Well, I am honestly sorry then and apologize for the confusion


No problem, looks like we've moved on to cancers now anyway....wonder what'll be next ? :smile:


----------



## Thomas Barriano

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Somehow I think there is a humerous sort of "justice" that the thread ABOUT Jeff is being derailed. LOL.


That's cause we're all a bunch of fuktards ;-)


----------



## brad robert

Christopher Smith said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> Maybe the reason this forum has lost something is because too many threads are polluted with nonsense and Jeff was the catalyst for a lot of it. He came to the party, insulted too many of the guest, and the host kicked his ass out.
> 
> Maybe this is a blessing for Jeff. Now he can spend more time training. He might even raise and title a dog someday.


Spot on!!


----------



## Faisal Khan

Shane Woodlief said:


> I bet you were a hall monitor when you were is school. You know one of those kids recruited by the teachers to patrol the hallways and turn in their class mates for school hallway violations :lol:


AKA rat.


----------



## Dave Martin

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I'm not voting because as Katy put it "I don't care", nor do I think it's our place to. The Mods run the show. We all know Jeff goes a bit too far sometimes and he has been warned, put in time out and had threads locked or modified time and again. If I was a mod, my patience would have worn thin long ago. There are rules and most of us already bend them. Jeff breaks them, twists them up and tries to shove them where the sun don't shine.
> 
> I have had my ass handed to me by him and handed it right back. His manner doesn't bother me, I was raised in a family full of assclowns that talk the same way. Shit I talk the same way at home, but know I gotta tone it down for the rest of the world. If I didn't I'd get food that was spit on and never get or keep a job. There are too many thin skins out there these days, I'll agree, but still there are rules here and everywhere for that matter and we have to keep that in mind.
> 
> Mods do what ya gotta do. Hopefully we can get back to talking dogs and training. It's OK to have fun but irritating when every thread gets off track.
> 
> Those of you that love Jeff, ya ought to know where and how to find him elsewhere. Try PDB or Working K9 Forum. Jeff will live on online!


I couldn't have put it better myself, Michelle.

Personally, I had no feeling toward the guy either way. But regardless of how entertaining (or not entertaining) he was, or how much training advice he offered (or didn't offer), it seemed like he was more than welcome to be a part of this board for as long as he wanted - *as long as he followed the rules that the rest of us follow*.

As someone stated earlier, we have rules for a reason. The one or more people that created and moderate this forum clearly understand, better than the rest of us, the type of discussion that is healthy for this type of online community and what boundaries need to be set so that it can continue to grow and offer knowledge and information to people throughout the world. In my eyes, if Jeff regularly broke these rules after being warned, maybe he didn't care about this place enough to calm down and not cross the line over and over and over again.

Jeff never offended me, so again I have nothing against the guy and couldn't care less if he does or doesn't return. I honestly have no reason to even comment on this thread other than I'm utterly confused as to why so many of you seem so baffled that when someone breaks the rules, they must pay the consequences.. :-s

This guy knew the same guidelines the rest of us do, and I don't see any thread discussing how dumb or ridiculous any of those guidelines are. So now that your friend got himself banned you want the rules rewritten for him? Jeff seemed like a pretty intelligent guy to me, so if he chose to keep saying things that he knew would get him banned, maybe he didn't care about all of you as much as you care about him 

I just hope the new Jeffs that surface figure out how to stay a bit more PC so I can still get my weekly or monthly "_Wow lol, what a dick_"


----------



## Faisal Khan

Sandra King said:


> ...and just because somebody is *100* pounds overweight (and don't get me started on that, in this country, if you ain't size 0 you are fat already) doesn't mean they are unhealthy and unfit.


You missed a 0.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Faisal

I think that towel is wrapped a bit too tightly around your head. It has pushed your mouth to your butt-hole.


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj46SPELMMM


----------



## Faisal Khan

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Faisal
> 
> I think that towel is wrapped a bit too tightly around your head. It has pushed your mouth to your butt-hole.


----------



## Brian Anderson

Christopher Smith said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> Maybe the reason this forum has lost something is because too many threads are polluted with nonsense and Jeff was the catalyst for a lot of it. He came to the party, insulted too many of the guest, and the host kicked his ass out.
> 
> Maybe this is a blessing for Jeff. Now he can spend more time training. He might even raise and title a dog someday.


Now that is funny LMAO. Raise and title a dog someday? LOL


----------



## maggie fraser

So you see Jody, folks do enjoy the social threads on here. Folks are piping up, not so much because they have something to say, but more just something to add to another 'silly' thread.


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Faisal Khan said:


>


Thing is, I got zero satisfaction from that statement - to the converse, it made me feel rather bad. 

I really don't understand the joy that running down other folks (either individual or by some "classification") brings to some folks.


----------



## maggie fraser

Cassandra Lane said:


> I would like to make a point about a reason that could be contributing to the forum gone to the toilet. How long has this forum been here? How long have the core members been here, argueing about the same thing-dogs. How many times or ways can you argue about the pros and cons of table training, the way a helper should work a puppy, the way to train the dumbell, the proper way to exectute a vehicle extraction. How many times has one of you posted something and _known _a particular person was going to comment in a specific way, and it happened. You need new blood here!
> I am going to start trying to think of good conversation topics. They will probably be shitty but I am going to try. The thing is, I'm sure it has all been discussed before. That is why you get a few good answers and then it turns into a facebook page of ribbing and laughter. You guys are bored argueing about the same things over and over again...


Unless I've missed something, you have a lot to say for someone who hasn't posted a bio .


----------



## Chris Jones II

Gerry Grimwood said:


> God forbid that he die of a heart attack in a hot pool full of strippers, then you'd all be typin with a big snot bubble coming out your noses and saying how much you miss him.


With that gut and sucking wind the way he does after he bends down to pick up a ball? It would have to be a bunch of pay as you go strippers and I don't think many would really give a shit. 

"It's kinda sad, the untimely passing of Jeff Oldson in a lukewarm pool full if busted hoes and one dollar bills... now what's for dinner?" 

He's that much of an ass.


----------



## susan tuck

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I'm not voting because as Katy put it "I don't care", nor do I think it's our place to. The Mods run the show. We all know Jeff goes a bit too far sometimes and he has been warned, put in time out and had threads locked or modified time and again. If I was a mod, my patience would have worn thin long ago. There are rules and most of us already bend them. Jeff breaks them, twists them up and tries to shove them where the sun don't shine.
> 
> I have had my ass handed to me by him and handed it right back. His manner doesn't bother me, I was raised in a family full of assclowns that talk the same way. Shit I talk the same way at home, but know I gotta tone it down for the rest of the world. If I didn't I'd get food that was spit on and never get or keep a job. There are too many thin skins out there these days, I'll agree, but still there are rules here and everywhere for that matter and we have to keep that in mind.
> 
> Mods do what ya gotta do. Hopefully we can get back to talking dogs and training. It's OK to have fun but irritating when every thread gets off track.
> 
> Those of you that love Jeff, ya ought to know where and how to find him elsewhere. Try PDB or Working K9 Forum. Jeff will live on online!


My thoughts exactly, well put, Michelle!:smile:


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Chris Jones II said:


> With that gut and sucking wind the way he does after he bends down to pick up a ball? It would have to be a bunch of pay as you go strippers and I don't think many would really give a shit.
> 
> "It's kinda sad, the untimely passing of Jeff Oldson in a lukewarm pool full if busted hoes and one dollar bills... now what's for dinner?"
> 
> He's that much of an ass.


 
Yup, this forum is definetely a classier place now.


----------



## Thomas Jones

all in all I was one that was in his crosshairs a lot but when I start letting someone bother me on a forum somebody just needs to shoot me in the head. A lot of overreacting IYAM


----------



## Laney Rein

maggie fraser said:


> Unless I've missed something, you have a lot to say for someone who hasn't posted a bio .


JEFF never posted a bio either, ever - so get off the bio thing. Again, double standard - :-({|=

Loved the comments Dave, Nancy, Cassandra, Michele and Sandra, Susan and Chris \\/


----------



## Thomas Jones

maggie fraser said:


> Unless I've missed something, you have a lot to say for someone who hasn't posted a bio .


you don't miss that no bio posted do you. If I'm not mistaken you were the one harping on that in another thread


----------



## Christopher Jones

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I'm all for dudes working at Hooters, just please God don't let them wear the same orange shorts as the gals! =;


 They might have to change the names from just "Hooters" to "Hooters and Hangers"


----------



## Christopher Jones

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Thing is, I got zero satisfaction from that statement - to the converse, it made me feel rather bad.
> 
> I really don't understand the joy that running down other folks (either individual or by some "classification") brings to some folks.


Nothing wrong with throwing a racial slur at people every now and then, other than its a ban if you do it here. :-$


----------



## Joby Becker

Christopher Jones said:


> Nothing wrong with throwing a racial slur at people every now and then, other than its a ban if you do it here. :-$


not surprising coming from a caneater....
(best I could come up with) LOL


----------



## kerry engels

Sandra King said:


> oh, so overweight people can't do sar?
> 
> Being obese has nothing to do with fitness or being healthy!


 
You serious :-??


----------



## Christopher Jones

Joby Becker said:


> not surprising coming from a caneater....
> (best I could come up with) LOL


 Here in Oz the Italian and Greek kids would respond to our slurs of "Wog" or "Deigo" with the term "Dogger". It was because we ate our food out of tin cans like dog food comes in.
Actually kinda funny. I guess a similar thing happened over there?


----------



## Laney Rein

I think if we check, Cassandra had posted a bio earlier today. Thanks and Welcome Cassandra


----------



## Joby Becker

Christopher Jones said:


> Here in Oz the Italian and Greek kids would respond to our slurs of "Wog" or "Deigo" with the term "Dogger". It was because we ate our food out of tin cans like dog food comes in.
> Actually kinda funny. I guess a similar thing happened over there?


no...I just googled australian slurs...LOL


----------



## Christopher Jones

Joby Becker said:


> no...I just googled australian slurs...LOL


 I didnt expect anything better from a "Sepo" lol


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Laney Rein said:


> JEFF never posted a bio either, ever - so get off the bio thing. Again, double standard - :-({|=
> 
> Loved the comments Dave, Nancy, Cassandra, Michele and Sandra, Susan and Chris \\/


Obviously laney wasn't here for the great forum crash and is basing her statement on her experience on her time here. You're all sheep lol...as long as the topic stays within your comfort level you're ok...step outside it and you're ****ed just like a self deployed sar volunteer in a bitesuit.

Think about it.. one person has this entire forum in an uproar lol..one person...if jeff was as insignifigant as most of you say you wouldn't even give it a thought.


----------



## Chris McDonald

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Obviously laney wasn't here for the great forum crash and is basing her statement on her experience on her time here. You're all sheep lol...as long as the topic stays within your comfort level you're ok...step outside it and you're ****ed just like a self deployed sar volunteer in a bitesuit.
> 
> Think about it.. one person has this entire forum in an uproar lol..one person...if jeff was as insignifigant as most of you say you wouldn't even give it a thought.


I think your steeling some of my work… I really think I started the SAR person in a bite suit bit. Ill let it go this time but next time I will expect to be compensated


----------



## Dave Martin

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Think about it.. one person has this entire forum in an uproar lol..one person...if jeff was as insignifigant as most of you say you wouldn't even give it a thought.


What uproar? lol This is still 1 thread of many.. If someone has a question or wants to post training or trial video, people won't watch and start a discussion now? 

If you still enjoy or make a living off dogs, dog training or dog breeding, the loss of one person won't turn you away from this site.

I think some people are being too one-dimensional worrying about one loss of entertainment. Luckily there are those considering the potential information and insight coming from all the 'newcomers' to the forum, who all signed up because it's a constructive knowledge-based place to talk dogs. We all know what this website is when we sign up.


----------



## Chris McDonald

Dave Martin said:


> because it's a constructive knowledge-based place to talk dogs.
> 
> Haha, you think so?


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

haha jeff wins even when hes not here, look at this thread its a bunch of folks doing exactly what they hated so much about jeff doing, the only difference is yr not doing it half as good.

*this thread is jeff's best work yet - the mans a freakin genius,* 

he prolly planned every word comin out yr mouths now 100 years ago.

if i may on jeffs behalf - "*dance puppets dance"*


----------



## Sara Waters

Don Turnipseed said:


> . Boards with too much feminine influence lose substance that is worth reading many times. Today, it is getting hard to tell the guys from the ladies anyway the way they snivel.


Would have to disagree, I belong to working BC and kelpie boards that have a predomination of women and the posts and learnings there are very much about training working dogs and the advice is really good. No snivelling or loss of substance at all. Just on topic and relevent.

I didnt mind Jeff at all, yeah sometimes he went a bit too far, but under all that I had a quiet chuckle at some of his observations.


----------



## Brian Anderson

Chris Jones II said:


> With that gut and sucking wind the way he does after he bends down to pick up a ball? It would have to be a bunch of pay as you go strippers and I don't think many would really give a shit.
> 
> "It's kinda sad, the untimely passing of Jeff Oldson in a lukewarm pool full if busted hoes and one dollar bills... now what's for dinner?"
> 
> He's that much of an ass.


You are now what you are condemning Jeff of. Except that much of his was meant playfully and yours is not..... Just my obeservation.


----------



## Chris McDonald

Peter Cavallaro said:


> haha jeff wins even when hes not here, look at this thread its a bunch of folks doing exactly what they hated so much about jeff doing, the only difference is yr not doing it half as good.
> 
> *this thread is jeff's best work yet - the mans a freakin genius,*
> 
> he prolly planned every word comin out yr mouths now 100 years ago.
> 
> if i may on jeffs behalf - "*dance puppets dance"*


This is funny


----------



## Joby Becker

Christopher Jones said:


> I didnt expect anything better from a "Sepo" lol


=D>


----------



## Faisal Khan

Peter Cavallaro said:


> haha jeff wins even when hes not here, look at this thread its a bunch of folks doing exactly what they hated so much about jeff doing, the only difference is yr not doing it half as good.
> 
> *this thread is jeff's best work yet - the mans a freakin genius,*
> 
> he prolly planned every word comin out yr mouths now 100 years ago.
> 
> if i may on jeffs behalf - "*dance puppets dance"*


Is this Jeff in his younger days?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFUpHZlGxu4


----------



## Jhun Brioso

I've never read this entire thread.. but YES.. BRING THE GUY BACK!


----------



## will fernandez

Here's the problem many of us have been on this forum from the beginning. Believe it or not you start building a wierd friendship. Its like hanging out at a bar and seeing all the regulars after work. Some move on, some die but you never expect someone to be banned. (that's just plain sorry) Everyone that has posted here from 2006 on has at one time or another been the target of Jeff's mental illness. You realize he is just ****ing with you and you continue the argument. You lose friends to death or greener pastures but not because he hurt someone's feelings for telling it like it is. Again--6000 views later he is still pumping it up so that the board can make a dime off of him.


----------



## Guest

will fernandez said:


> Here's the problem many of us have been on this forum from the beginning. Believe it or not you start building a wierd friendship. Its like hanging out at a bar and seeing all the regulars after work. Some move on, some die but you never expect someone to be banned. (that's just plain sorry) Everyone that has posted here from 2006 on has at one time or another been the target of Jeff's mental illness. You realize he is just ****ing with you and you continue the argument. You lose friends to death or greener pastures but not because he hurt someone's feelings for telling it like it is. Again--6000 views later he is still pumping it up so that the board can make a dime off of him.


 
over 7,000 views, crazy!


----------



## Shane Woodlief

will fernandez said:


> Here's the problem many of us have been on this forum from the beginning. Believe it or not you start building a wierd friendship. Its like hanging out at a bar and seeing all the regulars after work. Some move on, some die but you never expect someone to be banned. (that's just plain sorry) Everyone that has posted here from 2006 on has at one time or another been the target of Jeff's mental illness. You realize he is just ****ing with you and you continue the argument. You lose friends to death or greener pastures but not because he hurt someone's feelings for telling it like it is. Again--6000 views later he is still pumping it up so that the board can make a dime off of him.


I agree I really think that their is a weird friendships that are struck. the board has suffered the loss thro of some really key players here and it is heart breaking to see that happen. I am struggling with the fact that we have a guy (like him or not) is part of the community and it doesn't feel right (even if you don't like him) to just kick him out. Struggle and controversy is what makes us stronger not weaker. I believe that this community will be less because of his absences. It is kind of like watching Christmas Vacation and not having Cousin Eddie :-o


----------



## Michelle Reusser

Shane Woodlief said:


> I agree I really think that their is a weird friendships that are struck. the board has suffered the loss thro of some really key players here and it is heart breaking to see that happen. I am struggling with the fact that we have a guy (like him or not) is part of the community and it doesn't feel right (even if you don't like him) to just kick him out. Struggle and controversy is what makes us stronger not weaker. I believe that this community will be less because of his absences. It is kind of like watching Christmas Vacation and not having Cousin Eddie :-o


I'm going to miss his dickishness here too but like I said, he will be elsewhere. Go find him, email his ass daily. It aint the end of the world. Just pretend he got in a barfight and was banned from here. You can go hang with him at the next corner bar but not here!

Quit with the man tears all of you or I am going to picture you with big man boobs in the future, clinging to a huge box of kleenex.

Yall are acting like this is some popularity contest or some HS shit. Jeff would for sure be razzing the hell out of you.


----------



## Shane Woodlief

Michelle Kehoe said:


> I'm going to miss his dickishness here too but like I said, he will be elsewhere. Go find him, email his ass daily. It aint the end of the world. Just pretend he got in a barfight and was banned from here. You can go hang with him at the next corner bar but not here!
> 
> Quit with the man tears all of you or I am going to picture you with big man boobs in the future, clinging to a huge box of kleenex.
> 
> Yall are acting like this is some popularity contest or some HS shit. Jeff would for sure be razzing the hell out of you.


Michelle you win I will stop - man boobs and tears - you win I will stop my ranting for sure. Just out of curiosity whose man boobs :lol: please not Gerry's


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

yeah well gues what th man aint dead so we should stop talkin like he is. n hell i don't want him back now becuse they will slap that many conditions on him n regulate the "man-boobies" off that he will be fighting with a muzzle on the whole and never given a bite - i don't want to see a muzzled jeff so jeff; fugg off forever ya lil ho.

so whats his email anyway?


----------



## Tiago Fontes

I'd like to have him back, as well. His contribution was valuable. 

If not, can someone give me his email address?


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

You know, this is NOT the first time he has been banned and he is on other forums.........

Tell him to make a freaking facebook page or a Jeff Oehlson private yahoo group which is free.

This is pathetic.


----------



## Guest

Nancy Jocoy said:


> You know, this is NOT the first time he has been banned and he is on other forums.........
> 
> Tell him to make a freaking facebook page or a Jeff Oehlson private yahoo group which is free.
> 
> This is pathetic.


 
So pathetic you have to post..yet again...LOL


----------



## Kadi Thingvall

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Tell him to make a freaking facebook page or a Jeff Oehlson private yahoo group which is free.


He has a facebook page, under the name Jack Stafford, if people want to go "friend" him there.


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen

and it's his b'day today ;-) so a good day to befriend him lol


----------



## chris mercer

I think Jeff was like a breath of fresh air, well, more like a bitch slap against stupidity. Look forward to open dialogue. 

Chris Mercer


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Jody Butler said:


> So pathetic you have to post..yet again...LOL


Which resulted a good suggestions........of where to find him for those looking. I don't have anything against Jeff other than the fact that besides being rude and obnoxious, he completely derails threads where people were actually trying to carry on a discussion.


----------



## Tiago Fontes

Probably derailed threads for those with a lack of comprehension skills. 

He was one of the people I enjoyed reading the most.


----------



## Jimmy Vanhove

Happy birthday at my good friend Jeff O... :razz:
I hope this dog Buko going better!! He is very good dog for the training and in the life.. COURAGE JEFF!

"Bring back the crazy boy Jeffffffff O!!!!"


----------



## Don Turnipseed

maggie fraser said:


> Unless I've missed something, you have a lot to say for someone who hasn't posted a bio .


Thank you for proving my point once again Maggie. :grin:


----------



## James Degale

This is one of the GAY-est threads on this forum ever!


----------



## jeremy anderson

imo Jeff isn't much different than MOST (not all) of the people on here including MODS. Most of you come off as elitist know it alls & no one else is allowed to work dogs & just gonna **** them up. People on this forum go after new members on here like a pack of wolves. Kinda like high schoolers, If your not part of the "in crowd" you get shit on. Only diff was Jeff was straight up about it when most (not all) of the rest of you just give back handed compliments (maggie). Most (not all) are a bunch of douches. I respect Jeff because I don't have to read between the lines with him. It's black or white. Again IMO ;-)

Friend request sent to Jack Stafford


----------



## Shane Woodlief

Thanks for the information! Friend request sent to Jack Stafford. 

Working on 9,000 hits and close to 75% want him back - Says something like him or not.


----------



## Alice Bezemer

Christopher Smith said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> Maybe the reason this forum has lost something is because too many threads are polluted with nonsense and Jeff was the catalyst for a lot of it. He came to the party, insulted too many of the guest, and the host kicked his ass out.
> 
> Maybe this is a blessing for Jeff. Now he can spend more time training. He might even raise and title a dog someday.


now THAT is the best statement yet! and coming from the person it comes from I would have to say thank you Chris S...you made me laugh....ofcourse you never insulted or belittled anyone on this forum hmmmm ? let me give you a hint " people in glass houses shouldnt throw ? " 


as for Jeff O ? hey hes a class a smuck at times, rude, obnoxious, arogant, mouthy, know it all....hell I could go on for weeks with saying stuff like that about him...I dont even particulary like him much at times but damn hes a force to be reckoned with and hes got the brains to back up his statements when he makes em......he goes after people alright...like a rabbid dog :lol: kinda suits dont it.....but I am yet to see him be wrong in his statements...he calls you out and tells it like it is...dont like it well to ****in bad, deal or shut up! this is Jeff O people! our resident pain in the ass but still a knowledgeable person and I think the forum without him will be a lesser place to be...Havent known him very long, but I will miss his posts on here just the same...he tended to weed out the bullshit and make you think about things.....theres simply no replacing him....mods please reconcider.....as high maitenance as he might be trust me hes worth the effort 1000% 

and for all those people who got their feelings hurt or whatever the hell happened between you and Jeff on forum...no one made you read the topics or respond...no one held a gun to your head saying you had to aknowledge anything he said...get over it already and grow a thicker skin...lifes a bitch! online and offline...if you dont like it then dont read it.


----------



## Guest

Alice Bezemer said:


> now THAT is the best statement yet! and coming from the person it comes from I would have to say thank you Chris S...you made me laugh....ofcourse you never insulted or belittled anyone on this forum hmmmm ? let me give you a hint " people in glass houses shouldnt throw ? "
> 
> 
> as for Jeff O ? hey hes a class a smuck at times, rude, obnoxious, arogant, mouthy, know it all....hell I could go on for weeks with saying stuff like that about him...I dont even particulary like him much at times but damn hes a force to be reckoned with and hes got the brains to back up his statements when he makes em......he goes after people alright...like a rabbid dog :lol: kinda suits dont it.....but I am yet to see him be wrong in his statements...he calls you out and tells it like it is...dont like it well to ****in bad, deal or shut up! this is Jeff O people! our resident pain in the ass but still a knowledgeable person and I think the forum without him will be a lesser place to be...Havent known him very long, but I will miss his posts on here just the same...he tended to weed out the bullshit and make you think about things.....theres simply no replacing him....mods please reconcider.....as high maitenance as he might be trust me hes worth the effort 1000%
> 
> and for all those people who got their feelings hurt or whatever the hell happened between you and Jeff on forum...no one made you read the topics or respond...no one held a gun to your head saying you had to aknowledge anything he said...get over it already and grow a thicker skin...lifes a bitch! online and offline...if you dont like it then dont read it.


Honest Post! You got to admit, he did keep most of the Pet People and nonsense out of here, drove em out!


----------



## Anne Jones

Jeff is well.....JEFF!!! 

Most of us that have been here a long time like having him around. He's kinda like an old shoe...a bit ouchy at first...but then you get used to it. 

He always brings knowledge to the threads...even if his 'delivery' isn't always the way people would like to hear it.


----------



## Howard Knauf

7 or 8 years ago me and Jeff had a battle royale on the LB site. I gave him everything he gave me. In the end we respected each other for our honesty and conviction to our beliefs. I wasn't no newbie so I could fire back at him with intelligence. Primarily we just disagreed on a training issue. Over and done and none the worst for wear.


----------



## Alice Bezemer

Jody Butler said:


> Honest Post! You got to admit, he did keep most of the Pet People and nonsense out of here, drove em out!



:lol:

we should rename him to "Petpeople deterent extraordinaire" 

or he should be put in the rules and facts area of forum.....

*If and WHEN you are able to pass the Jeff O trial you are allowed to become a member of the WDF!*

hell i wouldnt get offline anymore if that happend lollllllll...be on WDF 24/7


----------



## jeremy anderson

Alice Bezemer said:


> as for Jeff O ? hey hes a class a smuck at times, rude, obnoxious, arogant, mouthy, know it all....hell I could go on for weeks with saying stuff like that about him...I dont even particulary like him much at times but damn hes a force to be reckoned with and hes got the brains to back up his statements when he makes em......he goes after people alright...like a rabbid dog :lol: kinda suits dont it.....but I am yet to see him be wrong in his statements...he calls you out and tells it like it is...dont like it well to ****in bad, deal or shut up! this is Jeff O people! our resident pain in the ass but still a knowledgeable person and I think the forum without him will be a lesser place to be...Havent known him very long, but I will miss his posts on here just the same...he tended to weed out the bullshit and make you think about things.....theres simply no replacing him....mods please reconcider.....as high maitenance as he might be trust me hes worth the effort 1000%
> 
> and for all those people who got their feelings hurt or whatever the hell happened between you and Jeff on forum...no one made you read the topics or respond...no one held a gun to your head saying you had to aknowledge anything he said...get over it already and grow a thicker skin...lifes a bitch! online and offline...if you dont like it then dont read it.


Quoted for truth


----------



## Al Curbow

will fernandez said:


> Funny I always thought the advertisers should pay Jeff. He brings more hits on this forum than just about anyone. Silly business decision . But whatever I think this will be my last post for awhile.


Same here Will. It's bullshit. As Jeff would say, there's about 3-5 retards that will absolutley flood this forum now with nonsense. I'm banning myself, lol. Bye.


----------



## Alice Bezemer

I just noticed that this topic managed to surpas the beaver topic big time :lol: 

hell Jeff is even more important then beaver! that alone should be a reason to bring him back full effect!


----------



## maggie fraser

jeremy anderson said:


> imo Jeff isn't much different than MOST (not all) of the people on here including MODS. Most of you come off as elitist know it alls & no one else is allowed to work dogs & just gonna **** them up. People on this forum go after new members on here like a pack of wolves. Kinda like high schoolers, If your not part of the "in crowd" you get shit on. Only diff was Jeff was straight up about it when most (not all) of the rest of you just give back handed compliments (maggie). Most (not all) are a bunch of douches. I respect Jeff because I don't have to read between the lines with him. It's black or white. Again IMO ;-)
> 
> Friend request sent to Jack Stafford


What a greeting, snivelling, classless little turd...anyone got a hanky handy for this guy ?


----------



## maggie fraser

Don Turnipseed said:


> Thank you for proving my point once again Maggie. :grin:


And thankyou to you for being obnoxious once again Don.


----------



## Howard Knauf

maggie fraser said:


> What a greeting, snivelling, classless little turd...anyone got a hanky handy for this guy ?


 Maggie is the new Jeff O.


----------



## jeremy anderson

maggie fraser said:


> What a greeting, snivelling, classless little turd...anyone got a hanky handy for this guy ?


Ahhhh mags I'll send a friend request to you to if it means that much :-({|=


----------



## jeremy anderson

Howard Knauf said:


> Maggie is the new Jeff O.


I always suspected she was a fat white guy :-o


----------



## Doug Zaga

I guess Jeff is in WDF jail....

I think this should explain it all LMFAO!

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6333029/leri-hansen-interview-with-jeff-oehlsen


----------



## maggie fraser

jeremy anderson said:


> Ahhhh mags I'll send a friend request to you to if it means that much :-({|=


Send it to someone who cares....you obviously need that, someone who cares I mean, besides I'm right out of hankies.


----------



## Joby Becker

Testing testing


----------



## Joby Becker

It seems to be working to me...


----------



## Alice Bezemer

hmmm.....cant see page 23 :lol: goes from 22 to 24...intresting...so what did I miss ?


----------



## Gerry Grimwood

Al Curbow said:


> Same here Will. It's bullshit. As Jeff would say, there's about 3-5 retards that will absolutley flood this forum now with nonsense. I'm banning myself, lol. Bye.


Even though I could be included in that group....I'm banning myself also,not that anyone would or should care.

Jeff has had an impact here like it or not, the forum will become less of what it was without him...there are a few more that would be missed if they left..but they are dwindling.

****, shit ,**********, muther****er and whatever the other 3 are.


----------



## maggie fraser

Alice Bezemer said:


> hmmm.....cant see page 23 :lol: goes from 22 to 24...intresting...so what did I miss ?


Try this Alice..

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f8/bring-back-jeff-o-20774/index23.html


----------



## Doug Zaga

maggie fraser said:


> What a greeting, snivelling, classless little turd...anyone got a hanky handy for this guy ?


You ned....


----------



## Alice Bezemer

maggie fraser said:


> Try this Alice..
> 
> http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f8/bring-back-jeff-o-20774/index23.html


:lol: and that takes me to page 22 even tho it should take me to 23....

stupid topic :lol:

addon: and now I can access page 23 since I cleared my cache LOL...stupid fkin internet and computers !


----------



## Joby Becker

Alice Bezemer said:


> :lol: and that takes me to page 22 even tho it should take me to 23....
> 
> stupid topic :lol:
> 
> addon: and now I can access page 23 since I cleared my cache LOL...stupid fkin internet and computers !


was it worth it ???


----------



## Ricardo Ashton

Ok, I've been out of it for a while, & it looks like I missed a lot of drama(thank God).
Jeff's style is his style. Some might see him as an a--hole, but then again, exactly who on this forum is perfect? I'm not saying he had a right to berate or insult people, least of all a mod #-o. But he did make a few decent contributions to the education of other less knowledgeable people. Yes some saw him as a PITA. Others saw him as the class clown. Yet others saw him as a person they could learn from. IMHO I say bring him back under the condition that he be a little less a--hole & a little more productive, observe his conduct for a while after issuing him a final warning that his misconduct will earn him the prize of being banned permanently, and then if old Jeff is still being old Jeff :roll:, do what need be done w/out hesitation. He should have a chance to prove himself to not be a total d!psh!+
And thats supposing he'd want back in :-\"

JMO


----------



## Sara Waters

I still dont really know what all the fuss is about. I mean summer of terror and dancing puppets. I just found it vaguely amusing and not particularly offensive. I found some of his posts and insights thought provoking.


----------



## scott zimmerman

will fernandez said:


> Here's the problem many of us have been on this forum from the beginning. Believe it or not you start building a wierd friendship. Its like hanging out at a bar and seeing all the regulars after work. Some move on, some die but you never expect someone to be banned. (that's just plain sorry) Everyone that has posted here from 2006 on has at one time or another been the target of Jeff's mental illness. You realize he is just ****ing with you and you continue the argument. You lose friends to death or greener pastures but not because he hurt someone's feelings for telling it like it is. Again--6000 views later he is still pumping it up so that the board can make a dime off of him.



Well put, Will. I often didn't agree with him about a variety of topics, but he did keep it interesting. He was like that misfit kid that lived down the street when you grew up that would piss you off from time to time, but every time you thought you about had enough, he would say something/do something hilarious that would make you laugh, sit back, and evaluate why he pissed you off and you realized it was because that is what he set out to do in the first place just to get some emotion out of folks! I often felt that he didn't believe half the trash he talked, but did so just to work folks up. Some might call it irritating, I just call it pure entertainment genius! Like Jeff himself, you just have to take it for what it's worth.


----------



## Jonathan Hoffnagle

24 pages?? I voted for him to come back but this is stupid. Move on.


----------



## Joby Becker

Jonathan Hoffnagle said:


> 24 pages?? I voted for him to come back but this is stupid. Move on.


25 with YOUR post


----------



## Christopher Smith

Alice Bezemer said:


> now THAT is the best statement yet! and coming from the person it comes from I would have to say thank you Chris S...you made me laugh....ofcourse you never insulted or belittled anyone on this forum hmmmm ? let me give you a hint " people in glass houses shouldnt throw ? "
> 
> 
> .



Yet I'm still here Bezzy Baby!

As far as Jeff chasing away pet people goes. We were all pet people at one time. Do you really think that it's good for dogsport to make things unnecessarily hard for them?

Secondly Jeff is only a half a step above pet person. Buying one half trained dog,putting a MR2 and failing MR3 a few times, does not an expert make. 
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


----------



## Alice Bezemer

Christopher Smith said:


> Yet I'm still here Bezzy Baby!
> 
> As far as Jeff chasing away pet people goes. We were all pet people at one time. Do you really think that it's good for dogsport to make things unnecessarily hard for them?
> 
> Secondly Jeff is only a half a step above pet person. Buying one half trained dog,putting a MR2 and failing MR3 a few times, does not an expert make.
> Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
> 
> Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


Yep you are still here and the reason would be this : atleast Jeff O has the BALLS to go for what he stands for and defends his views, ideas or convictions whereas you resort to trying to change the subject inorder not to look to stupid when saying something....you are the kind of person that takes a few words out of a whole story and turn them into something you might be able to use in order to feel good about yourself as where Jeff just takes the whole thing and beats the livin shit out of you.....to put it simple...hes got something you are sorely lacking.....balls and the brains to back up anything he says!

am yet to see you say anything even REMOTELY constructive on this forum and im not holding my breath for the future either :lol: 

now go on and give me one of your snappy comebacks Christopher...show me what you are made of...im sure you will think of something 

as for the whole petpeople comment? last time i checked this was a WORKING DOG forum....not a "fluffy or us" forum...yep we all started out as petpeople...but im not here to talk about my pet....my pet has NO PLACE here...my workingdogs do...if I want a petforum I will go out on google and find me one...I dont want to be bothered with it here!


----------



## Randy Allen

Whoa, whoa!
I'd like a definition of the word 'pet'.

Seems to me that UNLESS one makes their livelihood from or their livelihood depends on the dog or someone elses life depends on the dog then the dog is a 'pet'.
If the dog is kept at ones leisure, ie. as a hobby, ie. for sport. That makes the dog a pet doesn't it and NOT a 'working dog'.


----------



## Jim Nash

Hopefully the moderators have a good definition of "pet" and start keeping it off of this site . The post about what to name their puppy was a good example and Bob took care of it . Hopefully they stick with it .


----------



## Randy Allen

Well there we go Jim, is dock diving considered a 'working dog'? How about agility? What about AKC ob? What about herding trials? How about some SchH? Or FR? Or Mondio?
None of those or numerous others that can be named could be called nothing more than pets trained to accomplish a (hopefully) certain end.
No one lives or dies on the dogs task, we keep them at and for our leisure. 
Does that make them pets or working dogs?


----------



## Howard Knauf

I think any dog that works for its' board and does more than process food can be considered working at one level or another.


----------



## Michael Wise

Randy Allen said:


> Well there we go Jim, is dock diving considered a 'working dog'? How about agility? What about AKC ob? What about herding trials? How about some SchH? Or FR? Or Mondio?
> None of those or numerous others that can be named could be called nothing more than pets trained to accomplish a (hopefully) certain end.
> No one lives or dies on the dogs task, we keep them at and for our leisure.
> Does that make them pets or working dogs?


Enter the new era.

Who gives a ****?! Do you really need a definition?

I'm as pet as this board gets. I know what topics I need to stay away from and which ones I should read and learn from. Basically, I only post on non-DOG topics. 

This isn't hard to figure out.


----------



## Don Turnipseed

How's this..."I can't get page 26!!!! What am I missing? Why can't I get page 26? It says there are 26 pages but when I hit 26 it keeps putting me back on page 25!!!!!"

How about another page or two of that bullshit just for fun.


----------



## Jim Nash

Randy Allen said:


> Well there we go Jim, is dock diving considered a 'working dog'? How about agility? What about AKC ob? What about herding trials? How about some SchH? Or FR? Or Mondio?
> None of those or numerous others that can be named could be called nothing more than pets trained to accomplish a (hopefully) certain end.
> No one lives or dies on the dogs task, we keep them at and for our leisure.
> Does that make them pets or working dogs?


You have a very good point Randy . I had no idea the terminology of "pet" was so complex . Guess I've been wrong all the time . Looking forward to all the furbaby stories I've missed over the years here .


----------



## Sara Waters

Jim Nash said:


> You have a very good point Randy . I had no idea the terminology of "pet" was so complex . Guess I've been wrong all the time . Looking forward to all the furbaby stories I've missed over the years here .


A couple of my dogs work my sheep for a living but they are also pets I guess in the context I do agility with them, go on long walks with them etc as well for fun cos I just like training and hanging out with my dogs. BUT they are not furbabies and dont live like furbabies, in fact even the ones I dont work are not furbabies, but I do prefer their company sometimes to that of most people.


----------



## Faisal Khan

Jeff O ban, gender bender, obesity = fitness, cancer, missing page investigation, warnings, pet/work definitions, .... whats next? and we have not even touched beavers and tattoos! This is just getting interesting, I bet 50+ pages.


----------



## Randy Allen

Actually I like Mike Wise's definition, ya don't like the topic....don't bother with it. That gets the point across as well as any other method. Presto, the poster or thread goes away if they keep it up because they don't get any feed back. 
As (I believe) has been demostrated the lines between 'pet' and 'working dog' is, if nothing else, pretty fuzzy.

Ya don't like the topic for whatever reason, let it go. Don't post, don't respond. It's very much like the position many have advocated enre to the original topic of this thread. 

Example: how many people visiting this thread even bothered to open the puppy naming thread mentioned earlier?
I know I didn't.
And I haven't even bothered to check to see how many hits it got. But I'll bet dollars to donuts it's less then a half dozen and maybe one or two responses (disheartening if there's that many).
What more does one have to say about the health of this site?


----------



## Jim Nash

Randy Allen said:


> Actually I like Mike Wise's definition, ya don't like the topic....don't bother with it. That gets the point across as well as any other method. Presto, the poster or thread goes away if they keep it up because they don't get any feed back.
> As (I believe) has been demostrated the lines between 'pet' and 'working dog' is, if nothing else, pretty fuzzy.
> 
> Ya don't like the topic for whatever reason, let it go. Don't post, don't respond. It's very much like the position many have advocated enre to the original topic of this thread.
> 
> Example: how many people visiting this thread even bothered to open the puppy naming thread mentioned earlier?
> I know I didn't.
> And I haven't even bothered to check to see how many hits it got. But I'll bet dollars to donuts it's less then a half dozen and maybe one or two responses (disheartening if there's that many).
> What more does one have to say about the health of this site?


And the same could be said of what an individual posts on threads . Don't like what others have to say about "pet" topics you can either choose to ignore it or challenge it . You have chosen to challenge it . Me and you aren't so different after all . I don't choose to ignore many of the things I disagree with or think is outright BS . 

I know challenging things is scarey and unpopular with the soft crowd which I am concerned that this forum will become softer with the banning of Jeff being an example . 

I have to laugh at the " if you don't like it just ignore it " advice . Seems to me those saying it are ignoring their own advice . If it's that easy then why do we ban anyone here ? We could simply just ignore them . Seems ignoring things isn't as easy as folks think .


----------



## Craig Sturges

It is with the greatest respect to all the current members as well as the ones that have been suspended, that I make some observations of this group. It is not my intention to offend anyone, but rather to contribute to some healing and growth that may need to take place. My work experiences have been mainly in two areas. I was a dog trainer in south Florida in the late 60s and most of the 70s. I trained dogs for the general public, as well as, but too a lesser degree, local police departments. The rest of my professional life has been as a Psychotherapist and a field instructor for undergrad and grad psychology and counseling students. 
I currently have a male Dutch Shepherd and joined this group in anticipation that I would find current information on training dogs today.
I viewed the group as potentially entertaining and as a learning resource.
The vast majority of the people I see here tend to be very polite, respectful and knowledgeable. But more importantly they are willing to share their knowledge and experiences.
Even though I come here as an admirer of working dogs, I can not turn off my observations as a psychotherapist.
It is then from the perspective as a therapist that I make my comments. I honestly have little to contribute in instructing others about training, because my experience as a trainer was long ago and today it is a different world. It seems that much as changed in dog training..probably for the better.
I think most of you will agree with my impressions, and I hope you post that you do as well.
But there will be a small group of you that will immediately react to what I am going to say as "psycho-jargin" and bring out the flames.
Here it is ....every couple of months I return to see if the environment has changed, but it hasn't. And the removal of that one person will not eliminate the toxicity that prevails here. Yes this is a toxic environment and I will explain my reasoning. However I am not attacking or condemning anyone. As a therapist I know all of us are capable of change and growth throughout our entire life time. The problem is a small minority have stopped growing and are stuck.
Now all of us are neurotic, what changes over time is that we become less neurotic....and we all will unless we become stuck.
Let me define neurosis in the sense I am using it.
Neurosis means that we are acting out in some way today to get certain needs met that were not met at an earlier time in our lives.
It is a harsh an unfortunate reality that each of us had to figure out a particular survival stance in order to survive our childhoods. Now no one should ever be judged or be put down for what they did as a child in order to survive.
However a big problem occurs when someone is trying to use the same survival skills they used as a child to deal with today's world...and it is failing them miserably. Now what makes this forum a toxic environment is that we enable this behavior by tolerating it.
I don't want anyone to be kicked out...for we have that major thing in common...we all love dogs and most of us love working dogs.
Part of growing and becoming an adult is that we learn to resolves difference with respect for ourselves as well as each other.
Now many of us understandably are uncomfortable with the aggressive angry child like attacks that are made. For some the discomfort comes from having grown up with such behavior, for others the discomfort comes from being fortunate enough not having to grow up in such a family environment.
My main point I guess is that the adolescent behavior displayed by some towards others really isn't about today or this forum at all.
It has something to do with some very unfair childhood situation that they had to endure and the skills they learned way back then they are still utilizing today.
Now the members that resort to this type of behavior are probably successful to varying degrees in other parts of their lives. And they know where they can behave like an angry child and where they can't.
They know they can behave that way here because we allow it. It is just as much everyone's fault as theirs. Not only do we allow it, but some of us let it trigger our own old primitive survival skills and become symbolic family members in a very sick family system. So my suggestion is that when someone resorts to such behavior to just ignore them, don't respond to them, don't complain to the administrators...just ignore them...don't give them the primitive attention they so desire....but rather recognize them when they are respectful and worthy of everyone's attention. They will eventually realize what gets them to become part of the discussion...and the truth be told they have so much to offer the rest of us...it will be a win win situation...they will get their well deserved attention and we will all benefit from their knowledge....We can do this !
Some of us rationalize that it is entertaining and just sit on the sidelines and laugh.
But most I am sure wish it wouldn't occur, because the real value and treasure of this group is the sharing of knowledge and experience of working dogs.
So in summary I am against anyone being told to leave, but I whole heatedly encourage all of us to take a hard honest look at ourselves and ask the question....What can I do to improve communication in this group? 
I asked myself that question and for me that answer was to make this post.
There is room for all of us here and each has a lot to contribute in their own way. Let's create a supportive environment where everyone feels encouraged and respected.
Now if I may I want to say a few brief words about our amazing dogs....(that's what this whole thing is about anyway).
What incredible skills of adaptation and resourcefulness are hard wired into a puppy.
Look at how different all of us are....and a puppy will figure out what it means to be your dog and will adapt and give you unconditional love for it's entire life. As they so readily accept and respect us, can't we learn from them and accept and respect each other ?


----------



## Randy Allen

Jim,
Sometimes a face slap is necessary, and I'll be the last to say I know when the necessary is at the right time or with the right force.
However there's nothng wrong with trying to be constructive in that method of wake up call, whatever ones reason is.


----------



## Faisal Khan

I'll be darned! 75 pages now.


----------



## Jim Nash

Craig Sturges said:


> It is with the greatest respect to all the current members as well as the ones that have been suspended, that I make some observations of this group. It is not my intention to offend anyone, but rather to contribute to some healing and growth that may need to take place. My work experiences have been mainly in two areas. I was a dog trainer in south Florida in the late 60s and most of the 70s. I trained dogs for the general public, as well as, but too a lesser degree, local police departments. The rest of my professional life has been as a Psychotherapist and a field instructor for undergrad and grad psychology and counseling students.
> I currently have a male Dutch Shepherd and joined this group in anticipation that I would find current information on training dogs today.
> I viewed the group as potentially entertaining and as a learning resource.
> The vast majority of the people I see here tend to be very polite, respectful and knowledgeable. But more importantly they are willing to share their knowledge and experiences.
> Even though I come here as an admirer of working dogs, I can not turn off my observations as a psychotherapist.
> It is then from the perspective as a therapist that I make my comments. I honestly have little to contribute in instructing others about training, because my experience as a trainer was long ago and today it is a different world. It seems that much as changed in dog training..probably for the better.
> I think most of you will agree with my impressions, and I hope you post that you do as well.
> But there will be a small group of you that will immediately react to what I am going to say as "psycho-jargin" and bring out the flames.
> Here it is ....every couple of months I return to see if the environment has changed, but it hasn't. And the removal of that one person will not eliminate the toxicity that prevails here. Yes this is a toxic environment and I will explain my reasoning. However I am not attacking or condemning anyone. As a therapist I know all of us are capable of change and growth throughout our entire life time. The problem is a small minority have stopped growing and are stuck.
> Now all of us are neurotic, what changes over time is that we become less neurotic....and we all will unless we become stuck.
> Let me define neurosis in the sense I am using it.
> Neurosis means that we are acting out in some way today to get certain needs met that were not met at an earlier time in our lives.
> It is a harsh an unfortunate reality that each of us had to figure out a particular survival stance in order to survive our childhoods. Now no one should ever be judged or be put down for what they did as a child in order to survive.
> However a big problem occurs when someone is trying to use the same survival skills they used as a child to deal with today's world...and it is failing them miserably. Now what makes this forum a toxic environment is that we enable this behavior by tolerating it.
> I don't want anyone to be kicked out...for we have that major thing in common...we all love dogs and most of us love working dogs.
> Part of growing and becoming an adult is that we learn to resolves difference with respect for ourselves as well as each other.
> Now many of us understandably are uncomfortable with the aggressive angry child like attacks that are made. For some the discomfort comes from having grown up with such behavior, for others the discomfort comes from being fortunate enough not having to grow up in such a family environment.
> My main point I guess is that the adolescent behavior displayed by some towards others really isn't about today or this forum at all.
> It has something to do with some very unfair childhood situation that they had to endure and the skills they learned way back then they are still utilizing today.
> Now the members that resort to this type of behavior are probably successful to varying degrees in other parts of their lives. And they know where they can behave like an angry child and where they can't.
> They know they can behave that way here because we allow it. It is just as much everyone's fault as theirs. Not only do we allow it, but some of us let it trigger our own old primitive survival skills and become symbolic family members in a very sick family system. So my suggestion is that when someone resorts to such behavior to just ignore them, don't respond to them, don't complain to the administrators...just ignore them...don't give them the primitive attention they so desire....but rather recognize them when they are respectful and worthy of everyone's attention. They will eventually realize what gets them to become part of the discussion...and the truth be told they have so much to offer the rest of us...it will be a win win situation...they will get their well deserved attention and we will all benefit from their knowledge....We can do this !
> Some of us rationalize that it is entertaining and just sit on the sidelines and laugh.
> But most I am sure wish it wouldn't occur, because the real value and treasure of this group is the sharing of knowledge and experience of working dogs.
> So in summary I am against anyone being told to leave, but I whole heatedly encourage all of us to take a hard honest look at ourselves and ask the question....What can I do to improve communication in this group?
> I asked myself that question and for me that answer was to make this post.
> There is room for all of us here and each has a lot to contribute in their own way. Let's create a supportive environment where everyone feels encouraged and respected.
> Now if I may I want to say a few brief words about our amazing dogs....(that's what this whole thing is about anyway).
> What incredible skills of adaptation and resourcefulness are hard wired into a puppy.
> Look at how different all of us are....and a puppy will figure out what it means to be your dog and will adapt and give you unconditional love for it's entire life. As they so readily accept and respect us, can't we learn from them and accept and respect each other ?


Passive/Aggressive , hypocritical and not in touch with reality . Time will tell you very clearly on this forum or anywhere else that ignoring things is not possible .


----------



## Brian Anderson

Faisal Khan said:


> Jeff O ban, gender bender, obesity = fitness, cancer, missing page investigation, warnings, pet/work definitions, .... whats next? and we have not even touched beavers and tattoos! This is just getting interesting, I bet 50+ pages.


=D> I gotta give it to ya on that one LMAO


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Craig, I am curious as to the wanted effect of the huge print in your post was supposed to be.....


----------



## Peter Cavallaro

notice the stats haven't changed significantly even though the number of pollers has still approx 75 - 25


----------



## Howard Knauf

Don Turnipseed said:


> Craig, I am curious as to the wanted effect of the huge print in your post was supposed to be.....


 Why....to prove how well endowed he is. Or make up for SHORTcomings. How's that for phychobabble?


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Peter Cavallaro said:


> notice the stats haven't changed significantly even though the number of pollers has still approx 75 - 25


And the VAST majority are either not going to post because they don't want their opinion known or they don't really care one way or the other....


----------



## Randy Allen

I know challenging things is scarey and unpopular with the soft crowd which I am concerned that this forum will become softer with the banning of Jeff being an example . 
end quote

There's the thing, the word....challenging. Nothing wrong with that, provided it goes someplace constructive.

Using the same example of the ill thought of 'puppy naming thread'; (okay I admit I finally looked in)(anybody else?)
Here's what I found, someone beginning in FR with a Mal wanting to know the protocol of naming the dog with the proper beginning letter. Perhaps for registration?
The big mistake? Not wording the post right.

If I had opened the thread and if I knew the proper protocol I still probably would have had the same reaction as the people that did post........who gives a fark?.........
But let's face it many do, so I would have said who gives a tinkers dam after explaining the proper protocol.
The question WAS in enre to FR (at least outwardly).

Now we have a new sports/working dog person probably gone from this site because one of their very first questions about beginning was deemed by a few not worth any considered answer.
That is not 'challenging' any wrong headedness or misguided thinking, that is bullsh**t and bullying plain and simple. 


'I have met the enemy......and it is us'
er, or something like that.


----------



## Jim Nash

Randy Allen said:


> I know challenging things is scarey and unpopular with the soft crowd which I am concerned that this forum will become softer with the banning of Jeff being an example .
> end quote
> 
> There's the thing, the word....challenging. Nothing wrong with that, provided it goes someplace constructive.
> 
> Using the same example of the ill thought of 'puppy naming thread'; (okay I admit I finally looked in)(anybody else?)
> Here's what I found, someone beginning in FR with a Mal wanting to know the protocol of naming the dog with the proper beginning letter. Perhaps for registration?
> The big mistake? Not wording the post right.
> 
> If I had opened the thread and if I knew the proper protocol I still probably would have had the same reaction as the people that did post........who gives a fark?.........
> But let's face it many do, so I would have said who gives a tinkers dam after explaining the proper protocol.
> The question WAS in enre to FR (at least outwardly).
> 
> Now we have a new sports/working dog person probably gone from this site because one of their very first questions about beginning was deemed by a few not worth any considered answer.
> That is not 'challenging' any wrong headedness or misguided thinking, that is bullsh**t and bullying plain and simple.
> 
> 
> 'I have met the enemy......and it is us'
> er, or something like that.


That's the thing Randy , once again we are getting into what one defines bs and bullying . I have a different view of that incident . I gave an opinion and some overly sensitive types felt it was bs and bullying . If the poster was driven away by that it's unfortunate for them and I wonder how they will do when confronted by the challenges and criricisms they will get in FR . The judges comments will probably break their little hearts . 

You are doing a horrible job of ignoring me Randy .


----------



## Randy Allen

I'm not ignoring you Jim.
Or was that a joke?

I'd like to hear your view of the example. Perhaps I read it wrong.


----------



## Jim Nash

Randy Allen said:


> I'm not ignoring you Jim.
> Or was that a joke?
> 
> I'd like to hear your view of the example. Perhaps I read it wrong.


I agree you aren't ignoring me . I thought I gave my view or am I miss understanding you ?


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

I think some people just need to grow up. Why will you be having emotionl troubles so to speak because someone said something bad about you on the internet:-s......for God sake most people here are over 20.
 If Jeff was banned because the mods want to keep the forum 'super decent' then i guess i dont have much to argue with them but if its because someone's feelings are getting hurt then stilll..............


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> I think some people just need to grow up. Why will you be having emotionl troubles so to speak because someone said something bad about you on the internet:-s......for God sake most people here are over 20.
> If Jeff was banned because the mods want to keep the forum 'super decent' then i guess i dont have much to argue with them but if its because someone's feelings are getting hurt then stilll..............


----------



## Oluwatobi Odunuga

Oluwatobi Odunuga said:


> I think some people just need to grow up. Why will you be having emotionl troubles so to speak because someone said something bad about you on the internet:-s......for God sake most people here are over 20.
> If Jeff was banned because the mods want to keep the forum 'super decent' then i guess i dont have much to argue with them but if its because someone's feelings are getting hurt then stilll..............:-({|=


----------



## Randy Allen

I agree, some (actually many) of the so called 'proper things' are bs and it's cool to call it what it is, but because someone hasn't learned that yet doesn't mean the curve is shortened by demeaning them for being stupid without some explanation.

I had a world champion try to do that to me once because I was going to use a name I wanted instead of the registry/litters 'A' name.
Guess what I told him?
But it did not add to my education about dogs nor what or w here I wanted to go with my dog. It only added to my education about him as a person, defintively not what I was there for. 

Do we post on these sites for our own self stroking gratification or to help other dog handlers?


----------



## Christopher Jones

Just bring the big fella back already. Sure he is a little rude and abrupt. Sure he has a bit of an ego. Sure his humour is a bit pointed. Sure he may talk a bit more than he performs (dont we all?). But Jeff never really takes his arguements here seriously. What happens on the board stays on the board. Jeff used to give both Chris M and Mike a hard time, but when he heard of their passing he was actually pretty upset about it. Just because Jeff might take the piss out of someone, doesnt mean he hates them or wishes them harm. 
People need to understand that about Jeff, and Jeff needs to understand that most people dont have as thick a skin as he does. 
Plus, just imagine what his GF and dogs are putting up with right now without Jeff being able to use the PC to post here? \\/
So if for nothing else, do it for them....
Just moderate his posts before they get posted?


----------



## Gillian Schuler

In a lot of things, I agree with you Christopher. I also think that Jeff in spite of his XXL size, had a remarkably small opinion of himself which he tried to cover up by regarding a lot of people on here as retards.

I have also heard from those who met him personally that he was a genuinely nice and helpful man. 

He could be very mean and small-minded. His ridiculing of Mike Scheiber regarding his grammatical errors was below the belt, especially when he set up a thread on Chris Michalek's and Carole's forum titled "Mike Scheiber" and invited all and sundry to take pot-shot at Mike. I answered his post and told him it was disgusting and cowardly. He also ridiculed Kadi Thingwall, and here, I told him what I thought of him. I'm knee-high to a grasshopper, but on the forum you can't see this!!

I unintentionally started something like he had been doing. He ridiculed Mike Suttle's thread on puppy "furniture" and instead of wanting to ruin the thread, I inadvertently started up a thread "Jeff Oehlsen". This was my downcoming and I regret it to this day.

I still do not want him banned. I don't think the WDF will collapse without him. Not only do his "victims" disappear, but others, maybe will think twice about posting. On the other hand, maybe, knowing he will pick on your post will ensure that you get your facts straight and don't boast about what you haven't achieved. 

In theory, he has a lot to say but in practice, he's very often lacking, I think, like a lot of us.

He's witty, his remarks have me chuckling many a time, so as a parting line, I'd say he should be allowed back. He's not that damn stupid to carry on insulting and ridiculing people.


----------



## Brian Anderson

Lets move back to talking dogs and training shall we?


----------



## Nancy Jocoy

Gillian Schuler said:


> He's witty, his remarks have me chuckling many a time, so as a parting line, I'd say he should be allowed back. He's not that damn stupid to carry on insulting and ridiculing people.


I wish I could believe that but he is still pulling that nonsense elsewhere. So he gets away with it and his "followers" exhibit the same bad form and this becomes a very rude place to be- I will be a dime to a dollar many of these "mini-me's" have never put a working title or cert on any of their own dogs. Also, it seems to me that the people on this board who have given the most useful honest advice do NOT play these stupid games.

He has been banned before and does not come back "reformed" why would we expect anything different? 

The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results.

There is enough confrontation and stress in many of our daily lives to have to wade through that when all you want to do is talk about dogs. I think a lot of folks take that stress and dump it on folks on the board because they can. It would easy to shoot back and play that game but it cheapens everyone.

You can avoid threads but not if it is one that has a discussion relevant to you. You can ignore one member but not when they get "quoted" and others jump on the same bandwagon and derail a thread.

Honestly, I would love to just see zero tolerance. There are many genuinely knowlegable folks on this board who behave like decent human beings. I imagine more would come out of the woodwork if they did not have to feel like they are entering a war zone.

----------------

Oh, yes and I don't have a CLUE why he got kicked off this time.


----------



## Gillian Schuler

Nancy said: Oh, yes and I don't have a CLUE why he got kicked off this time.

Maybe we should wait until the Mods tell us why he was banned. They seem to me to be a great team and I hardly can think they would persecute someone without reason.

Nancy, I don't like banning - I got banned from a UK forum because I ridiculed a photo of a handler, hand in pocket, sunglasses on, holding a dog in front of the helper!!¨I still find this ludicrous and the guy in question obviously had a Napoleon complex.

I know we have rules on here about conduct, but I have my own, too:

never ridicule someone with a physical defect or because of their size (I'm a hypocrite - I've just done this)

never, but never criticize another member's grammar - we haven't all had the same education and the most important thing is the content of the message. The most perfectly worded post that cannot get the message "over" is useless.

never make fun of or reference to someone's nationality

one helpful thing would be to stop calling Schutzhund / IPO or SAR. Some of the members on here have attained extremely good results in these spheres and I find it bullish to ridicule them.

I did love your reply to Faisal and I think he took it in good vein, but if not, shucks! 

Someone who is always correct but blasts out with such a reply really earns my respect.


----------



## Gillian Schuler

"I have good and bad news for you " said the director to an employee.

First, the good news: "Apart from one, everyone is on your side!"

Now, the bad news. "I'm the one who's not on your side."


----------



## Don Turnipseed

Brian Anderson said:


> Lets move back to talking dogs and training shall we?


Somebody stopping you?


----------



## Faisal Khan

Gillian Schuler said:


> I did love your reply to Faisal and I think he took it in good vein, but if not, shucks!
> 
> Someone who is always correct but blasts out with such a reply really earns my respect.


Hey hey, what did I do? The reply was not applicable to me in the first place.


----------



## maggie fraser

Faisal Khan said:


> Hey hey, what did I do? The reply was not applicable to me in the first place.


How not ? Do you wear a chequered hanky instead of a towel ? :-D

eta; that was supposed to read tea towel and not hanky.


----------



## Gillian Schuler

Faisal Khan said:


> Hey hey, what did I do? The reply was not applicable to me in the first place.


Sorry Faisal, but it was a damned good reply from Nancy to someone but cannot find it now!!


----------



## Harry Keely

This is funny for this reason, by the way I voted YES, alright back on topic with the exception of the few that voted no - the rest of these people havent giving any real sort of opinion and really havent typed a ounce of sense on here with the exception of the few that do post regularly.

On the other hand the majority of yes votes, these are actual people that do put their two cents in for better or worse, which should hold alot more weight for these are active participants.

Lastly for the people that complain about the BS written on here by members and say come on knock it off and say stop the madness and have voted to say yes like I have you have no longer no right to complain, grow up, put your pants on and your boots on high and walk on and shut up and grow some thick skin. Stop being little school children and whining and crying and bothering the mods.](*,)

Now I am done, bring back Jeff he does have knowledge to give to share to others.


----------



## Faisal Khan

maggie fraser said:


> How not ? Do you wear a chequered hanky instead of a towel ? :-D
> 
> eta; that was supposed to read tea towel and not hanky.


The only towel I wear is around da waist for sexy ladies :lol: But that would be difficult to understand for residents across the pond as they only shower sparingly.


----------



## Timothy Stacy

Is it true the people that are paying for advertising complained, or is it moderators playing God? I really think David F. Should be back. There are better ways of dealing with them. One mod is getting trigger happy on locking threads as well. He/she locks threads at inappropriate times just because .... Or on a whim that they believe others want it done!


----------



## Shane Woodlief

Harry Keely said:


> This is funny for this reason, by the way I voted YES, alright back on topic with the exception of the few that voted no - the rest of these people havent giving any real sort of opinion and really havent typed a ounce of sense on here with the exception of the few that do post regularly.
> 
> On the other hand the majority of yes votes, these are actual people that do put their two cents in for better or worse, which should hold alot more weight for these are active participants.
> 
> Lastly for the people that complain about the BS written on here by members and say come on knock it off and say stop the madness and have voted to say yes like I have you have no longer no right to complain, grow up, put your pants on and your boots on high and walk on and shut up and grow some thick skin. Stop being little school children and whining and crying and bothering the mods.](*,)
> 
> Now I am done, bring back Jeff he does have knowledge to give to share to others.


Harry I agree with what you have said.

This is my last post on the subject. Jeff is gone because whinny, thin skinned people who take themselves way to seriously are complaining and have been. 

Again Jeff does have a lot to offer anyone who says differently just cant get past the delivery or differences etc. I know that I have push Jeff in our personal communications and have found most of the time he was joking with his comments. I found that when my son blew his knee out playing football that Jeff has given some good advise to me to help my son stay focused on what is important. I have also found Jeff to be deeply moved as we all were with those we have lost on the forum over the past year. I have also seen Jeff celebrate the success of people on this forum.

Yes he is going to make fun of people - we all do. For most of us this is a release to come on the forum get advise, raz people and have fun. We have some people on here that cannot take it so they complain and complain quite often. Again not understanding that conflict, struggle and hardships are going to make you better and stronger. 

I find it odd that the ones throwing the biggest stones in this thread are just as guilty as he was and are the ones complaining about him the most. It is a shame that one of the founding people on the forum is booted do to whinny sniveling complaining people - who by the way are just going to put someone else in their cross hairs when their feathers are ruffled.

The poll is pretty straight forward an overwhelming percentage of people participating want him back and it is being ignored the decision had been made and will not be changed - Kind of reminds me of government in a weird way :razz:


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## maggie fraser

Faisal Khan said:


> The only towel I wear is around da waist for sexy ladies :lol: But that would be difficult to understand for residents across the pond as they only shower sparingly.


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## maggie fraser

Has anyone asked the mods outright why he was banned ?

If not, I'll just ask now.

Mods, why has Jeff been banned ?


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## Alice Bezemer

Dear Mods :mrgreen:

how close are we to getting Jeff O back?

look at the poll! the majority has spoken! 

please please PRETTY PLEASE can we have Jeff back Mods 

Hell if need be im sure even most of us are willing to deal with Dave F if need be :lol: just to keep things fair and all.....


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## Howard Gaines III

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Even though I could be included in that group....I'm banning myself also,not that anyone would or should care.
> 
> Jeff has had an impact here like it or not, the forum will become less of what it was without him...there are a few more that would be missed if they left..but they are dwindling.
> 
> ****, shit ,**********, muther****er and whatever the other 3 are.


 See ya!!!!!!!!! So, we don't need rules for folks who wish to rape and murder in this country. Why do we have them for a forum? THE REASON...TO FOLLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:


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## Guest

Howard Gaines III said:


> See ya!!!!!!!!! So, we don't need rules for folks who wish to rape and murder in this country. Why do we have them for a forum? THE REASON...TO FOLLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:


 
Rules are Rules, I understand, but rape and murder are hardly in the same category as name calling and/or BS that is done on this forum....cmon Howard don't be a pussy!


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## Don Turnipseed

I firmly believe rules are made to protect the whooses of the world from the big dogs. Problem is, most big dogs make their own rules anyway. Just my thoughts on rules.


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## Timothy Stacy

Maybe somebody will start another forum like Chris Michalek did! Let's work on that cause it seems there is a lack of respect for the ones who actually make the forum what it is! It's not the www.workingdogforum.com at the top of the browser that makes this fun, it's the people. 

I have a feeling one mod in particular was at the head of this banning. The same mod that locked about 5 threads in a matter of four days. One thread imparticular was not derogatory, he just felt the OP should have answer in the many pages, so he as MOD LOCKED ANOTHER ONE!


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## Selena van Leeuwen

Anyone else who want to this (not very satisfying, unthankfull job 'cause no matter what you do it is never good) job? Feel free to aply.

Jeff has broken about every rule, had many warnings, had several temp bans, enough is enough some day.


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## Don Turnipseed

There are 44 no votes. I have to wonder how many of those voting no would even be noticed if they were suddenly banned. My guess is not many if any.


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## Howard Gaines III

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> ...Jeff has broken about every rule, had many warnings, had several temp bans, enough is enough some day.


THIS SAYS IT ALL! END OF STORY...[-(
And big dawgs make big targets, live by the sword and die by it. [-X
And I've had my share of "MOD spankings" for walking the grey line and stepping over the bounds...


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## Mike Schoonbrood

Thanks guys. Thanks to all the whining and dramatics on this forum, we have now lost one of our moderators.

Sorry to see you resign, Selena, but I can hardly blame you.

Perhaps if y'all spent less time talking smack, this forum could return to it's original intent once more.

PS. No, I have not read this thread - any of it. It's a waste of my time and everyone elses.


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## maggie fraser

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> PS. No, I have not read this thread - any of it. It's a waste of my time and everyone elses.


You are deciding what is a waste of time for folks to be reading on this forum ? How out of touch is that?


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## David Frost

I'm going to close this thread. Most have had an opportunity to respond, folks have said what they want to say and the comments are now becoming redundant. Those of us who want to discuss working dogs, training, the occasional bs story, and maybe even a related pet question, will continue to enjoy what we have here ..... even those with hyper-vision who always know exactly what happened, why, and by who. 

DFrost


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