# What Sort of Fear do You Live in



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

What sort of fear or paranoia do you live in that you feel it's necessary to own a PPD?


----------



## Guest (May 9, 2008)

The same kind which leads me to give my dog a "battle crop" for practical purposes...?


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

A BIG part of me wants to answer, none of your business. 

However.

I live alone, raise parrots, been robbed once, and there are still people watching my house/aviary (had a recent scare). 

Worst comes to worst, a biting dog will buy me time.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Grew up in the inner city. Had 5 bicycles stolen. 2 while I was still riding them. Beat and robbed 3 different times. Cut once. 
Just last year I moved out of a crime filled neighborhood with drugs, burglary, murders, drive bys, dog fighting. 
At 62 I still feel it's my job to protect my family and dog, not the other way around. Fear and paranoia are character builders. I'm now a nice, old and bored/boring granpa! :lol: :lol:
CC is a wonderful thing! :wink:
I think that 99% of the people that think they need a "real" PPD probably don't. The ones that do shouldn't have one unless they are willing to carry a gun along with the PPD. JMHO! :grin:


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Had my car's windshield shot by a BB gun, as well as my glass front door, the lanaai in the back was poked full of BB-sized holes, had stuff stolen out of my car, and some other minor crap like that. When I got a barking doggy (aka Cujo) suddenly things stopped happening.

Didn't get a dog for that reason, just a nice side effect. I lived in a good neighborhood with bored teenagers that thought it'd be fun to cause trouble. One of my neighbors had his car stolen out of his garage and wrecked into a tree 3 blocks away. Another neighbor had his house broken into and everything in the house re-arranged, nothing missing. People's xmas decorations would get re-arranged and strung up lights torn down out of trees and off the roof. The kids playground area was totally burnt down by the kid accross the street from me. The kid down the street from me liked to walk around the neighborhood and grab stuff out of peoples unlocked cars and open garages in broad daylight, but he never messed with my house with Cujo's big nose at the window 

Now I live out in the country, the nearest neighbor is 1/8 mile down the street, the other side of my house I have no neighbors for a couple miles at least. Not a single house. Nothing but corn fields, potato fields and cow fields. It doesn't hurt to be "the guy with the 4 vicious dogs at the end of the neighborhood."

I don't consider my dogs PPD's, nor do I live in any sort of constant fear or paranoia. But having dogs doesn't hurt in the situations mentioned above, whether or not they will "bite for real." As Bob said, most people just need a sharp loudmouth. That's my dogs to a T


----------



## Kayce Cover (Oct 30, 2007)

I refuse to live in fear. So, I figure out how to stack the odds in my favor, do those things and proceed full speed ahead. Have had tough dogs for thirty years now, but they are also soft- on family, clients, etc.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I will be retiring to Costa Rica soon. My wife is a Costa Rican national. I lived there before and traveled there often. It's a beautiful place but there are some drawbacks.

There aren't many murders but lots of petty crime and car theft. People rarely leave their homes unattended for very long. Usually a relative stays back to watch the house.

The typical "local" is afraid of the protection breeds they've seen in the movies and on TV. When I had my Rott there with me they would cross the street to get away.

I left my Rott home to watch over things and never had a single problem.

My two Dutchies will go with me this time. One for the house and one for the car is the plan.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike Scheiber said:


> What sort of fear or paranoia do you live in that you feel it's necessary to own a PPD?


I was raped by a bikini clad super model. She said if I didn't comply that bad things could happen to me!\\/ 
I don't live in fear or have a paranoia. I do live in a *real world* and one that has changed since I was a kid. It use to be children could go out and Trick or Treat without much violence. It use to be I could walk my neighborhood without street lights and be safe. It use to be that the only problem with grocery shopping was having a paper bag fall apart in your hands. It use to be the only big crime to old people was their pension check might be a few days late!

The real world now allows me to carry a concealed deadly weapon, have trained PPDs, and now have to keep everything under lock and key. Folks who rob today will kill or beat the hell out of you for the fun of it and the photo ops it brings on the internet!!!

Now my friend...why do I have a PPD? :evil:


----------



## Eros Kopliku (Jan 30, 2008)

Zombies! Lots of them!











Edited to add: Did someone ask you that question, Mike?


----------



## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

I don't live in fear, but I live in caution. I play in 2 bands, so I'm gone at night quite a bit, and my wife is home alone during that time. Our town is not bad, but there are enough bad elements around that having a little extra incentive to stay away from my property is warranted. If a 110lb Great Dane shaking the rafters with her bark isn't enough of a deterrant for some bad guy to move on, the silent stealth of my GSD should convince him he made a bad mistake.


----------



## Guest (May 9, 2008)

Mike,

Care to narrow down what you're talking about?

Just about everyone can see the value of deterrence. There's plenty of fences with black labs behind them which I'd just as soon stay away from. Up the ante to something traditionally "tough" like a barking Rott, and just about any no-goodnick would say "**** that!" if we're talking about deterring crimes of opportunity.

I assume you're talking about where the rubber meets the road, i.e. that alleged Doberman dismemberment and the associated wishful thinking, which we damn well know is going on. "Man, I can't WAIT for someone to break into MY house, hur, hur, hur".

To complete the triangle of extremes, let's add the individual who trains their dog (genetically sound or not...probably not) for many multiple "real life scenarios", and have themselves convinved it's all quite practical. 

So, to save everyone from trying to out-ghetto eachother, what exactly are you talking about?


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Steven Lepic said:


> ... So, to save everyone from trying to out-ghetto eachother, what exactly are you talking about?


Nicely put. :lol:


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> Mike,
> 
> Care to narrow down what you're talking about?
> 
> ...


Is you question aimed at me if so I'm not sure what your asking


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Dan Long said:


> I don't live in fear, but I live in caution. I play in 2 bands, so I'm gone at night quite a bit, and my wife is home alone during that time. Our town is not bad, but there are enough bad elements around that having a little extra incentive to stay away from my property is warranted. If a 110lb Great Dane shaking the rafters with her bark isn't enough of a deterrant for some bad guy to move on, the silent stealth of my GSD should convince him he made a bad mistake.


Dan better live in fear. With singing and playing abilities like that...OMG! Folks will want their cover charge back! 8-[


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike, are you looking for a casual discussion of what threatens people, or making a comment that wanting to own a protection dog (including a dog with just a nice loud display) is a symptom of a fear-driven life? Or maybe saying that the display is what most people really need?

It's hard to tell (for me).


----------



## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Just in general the way the world is these days, is enough to warrent something. My kid doesn't go down to the park without her dog and her cell phone. It's either lock your children up, move away to the country, or have an extra set of eyes looking out for you. I refuse to have my daughter live in fear and my mother tried to keep her there (with tales from the news, rapists, killers, kidnappers) when she was younger, just to make her more aware. When she didn't want to play at the park anymore because there was someone eating lunch in thier car or highschool kids playing basketball, I said enough is enough. My daughters dog has no bitework training and doesn't need it, she's a nasty little thing when pissed off but the sweetest, cuddlebug and patient unwound dog we own. 

If I go shopping at night (usually after work hours, short days of winter) I take a dog or 2 with me to leave in the car. If I leave my daughter home alone, a dog is allowed in, to keep watch. If I hike, I take a dog or 2. I try to never go anywhere alone. 90% of the time all you need is a dogs presence to ward off an attack. I'll stack the odds in my favore to avoid making an easy target. Someone wants to look past the dog...huh, I don't go down easy, stick a gun in my face you better use it, before I do.


----------



## Dan Long (Jan 10, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Dan better live in fear. With singing and playing abilities like that...OMG! Folks will want their cover charge back! 8-[


You know you loved it when I serenaded you that one morning.


----------



## Terry Devine (Mar 11, 2008)

Although I like the deterrence factor that two GSD's provide, my main motivation for owning and training stems from the education I get from learning all that I can during the training sessions. Being a Physical Education teacher as well as a Coach I really like the training and the satisfaction I get from my dogs executing a task correctly (in spite of all the mistakes I make ). I am drawn to the commraderie that is part of this fraternity of trainers and have learned a great deal from people such as Jerry, Matt & Jay among others. Besides you can call back a dog, you can't call back a bullet !!!!!!!!

Terry


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Mike, are you looking for a casual discussion of what threatens people, or making a comment that wanting to own a protection dog (including a dog with just a nice loud display) is a symptom of a fear-driven life? Or maybe saying that the display is what most people really need?
> 
> It's hard to tell (for me).


My opinion of a PPD is a dog that will fight a man or hold a man till pulled off or called off. That's the type of dog that I consider a PPD.
My OP question is what fear or paranoia would make you want a dog like this. I would like to add something that is really happening to you.
I'm not trying to pry into personal lives so don't answer if you feel my question or your answer is intrusive.
I better add that I don't have a problem with having a dog like this if there is need to protect your home or family/self's.
I have a sport dog that is the way he is trained I guess I would say he is a deterrent. I would never consider him to defend me till death. With some training adjustments he very well could be that dog but I'm not going to ruin my great sport dog to find out. Though several cops have said they wish he was in there back seat.
I will say I don't live in fear or even worry. How ever I'm not oblivious to the world I'm in ether.


----------



## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

I have a lot of phobias and neuroses. Having a dog who is a deterrant is a huge comfort. Having a dog to snuggle up with in the middle of a scary thunderstorm is equally comforting. 

I don't know if my dog would be more than a deterrant, but in my rational moments, I don't believe I need anything more than that anyway.


----------



## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

Yeah on the other end, I'm going to have dogs anyway, working lines and they need a job to stimulate them. This is the job I gave, killing 2 birds with one stone so to speak.


----------



## John Andrews (Apr 3, 2008)

Clint Smith a firearms instructor said: "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?"

Just replace gun with PPD. I reject the premise that you if you own a PPD you live in fear or paranoia. [-X


----------



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

What paranoia compels you to lock the doors to your car and home?


----------



## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

It started out as a hobby for me, I just like to get bit and train, to me thats about the most fun that I can have with my clothes on. So I said what the hell, I might as well have one for myself while Im at it. I don't NEED one, hell I want one, and why not.


----------



## Beth Moates (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't live in fear , my dogs are good visual and audial deterrants. Montgomery's violent crimes are on the rise. Just a few days ago we had a person robbed of her vehicle and she was stabbed, less than 2 miles from my house. What's scary is that we are supposed to be in the better part of town. Crime is every where and most crimes are opportunistic, not planned. I have 4 K9's and a house that is an arsenal.\\/ If someone tries a home invasion on me they will leave in a body bag. Not to mention not only am I an Officer my other half is as well. So, 4 K9's an armed arsenal and 2 PO-lice. I like those odds. All that subject(s) will be able to do is :-o #-o( I couldn't get the pray one to work, but I had to add some humor)

All of you will like this one that happened just a few blocks from our house, yesterday. This poor subject felt the need to drive the neighborhoods naked and get out and shake his stuff at the women. Is there NO shame in this world anymore!!


----------



## J Ramanujam (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm female and I live alone. 

I live alone in an apartment that would be too easy to get into, despite not having a key.

I travel a lot, and just having an animal present 'keeps the strange away.'

Oh... and zombies. (I so second that.) I mean, come ON, a Labrador's not going to help me in that situation.


----------



## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Steven,
There was a brutal home invasion in Cheshire Ct last yr and there's been a few more since, one last week in New Haven. Unfortunately those people weren't paranoid or fearful enough. A nice civil dog is one layer of security. If the folks in Cheshire were a little more alert (you can call it fear if you like) they very well might be alive today. Most folks are good people but there's a element of real scumbags out there. A good dog will buy you a few minutes, that's why you have to do home invasion and carjacking scenarios. Sound fearful or paranoid? 

My point is you don't need protection till you need it, jmo
AL


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Dan Long said:


> I don't live in fear, but I live in caution. I play in 2 bands, so I'm gone at night quite a bit, and my wife is home alone during that time. Our town is not bad, but there are enough bad elements around that having a little extra incentive to stay away from my property is warranted. If a 110lb Great Dane shaking the rafters with her bark isn't enough of a deterrant for some bad guy to move on, the silent stealth of my GSD should convince him he made a bad mistake.


 
I play in a band too!!! :-({|= 

Anyway, my wife has been stopped by strange men twice since we've been married. Once she caught the attention of others and the most recent time she was with our current rott who was then only 11mo old but was confident enough to walk to the end of the leash and give that hard ice cold rottweiler stare.

We live in a "nice" neighborhood ($400K+ homes) and just a month ago a neighbor had a break in. Two men came in, pushed the mother and daughter into the spare room and then took what they wanted. I don't have to say how much worse that situation could have been. 

Since we heard about that night, we've been doing home invasion and car jacking training. Tonight, we're working for the first time, with two decoys on a home invasion situation.


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Chris Michalek said:


> I play in a band too!!! :-({|=


Me Too! I'm a freaked out Rock n roller in my other life! \\/ We need to set up a WDF jam session!


----------



## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

I have no fear so far nothing bad happened to me yet.


----------



## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

How many home invasions, rapes, murders, etc. have you heard of that involved someone at their home who had dogs like we have? I'm sure it's happened, but I've never heard of it. My wife is generally supportive of the dogs (obviously, we have 3!) but if I didn't want any she'd be ok with it. However, on the occasion that we hear of a woman getting raped in her home I know my wife appreciates the HUGE security benefit of having 3 German Shepherds in the home. 

Here's a sad but true story. Six years ago my ppd Jake was just 2 years old and had already been biting very seriously for nearly a year. Some of my extended family thought it was a bit silly and perhaps an extension of my bravado, etc. Sadly, a first cousin of mine living in Indiana (single woman living alone) was the victim of a brutal home invasion and was beaten to death. She didn't have a dog. While I was there for the funeral another family member told me a story of a more distant family member who had also been the victim of a home invasion. The large man was getting the better of the young, fit woman he was attacking but when a second woman came walking in from down the hallway he ran away...and was never caught, at least not for this. Needless to say, my extended family's view of having a ppd dog around the house changed dramatically. 

By the way, a ppd is not an unpredictable time-bomb that will bite and kill anything that moves. I'm not sure what you think a ppd is but they're not junkyard dogs. It's not we own a saltwater crocodile and keep it tied up in front of our bedroom door. Perhaps I'm the only one but I can definitely see where your initial question might be taken as an insult. But maybe you didn't intend to send us that signal; I hope not.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Ive been training Schutzhund dogs for all most 15 years 3 4 sometimes 5 times a week most people I know don't even what I'm teaching my dogs I am very lax on there manners and behavior at home. Several of my wife's friends have suggested to her that I may be chasing some other type of tail because my dogs don't seem to be trained very well.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Patrick Murray said:


> ... Perhaps I'm the only one but I can definitely see where your initial question might be taken as an insult. But maybe you didn't intend to send us that signal; I hope not.


No, you're not the only one. That was why I asked for clarification.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Ive been training Schutzhund dogs for all most 15 years 3 4 sometimes 5 times a week most people I know don't even what I'm teaching my dogs I am very lax on there manners and behavior at home. Several of my wife's friends have suggested to her that I may be chasing some other type of tail because my dogs don't seem to be trained very well.


Not sure how this post fits in here, either .... :-s 

Or why you would train like that ....


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Not sure how this post fits in here, either .... :-s
> 
> Or why you would train like that ....


 Train like what The dog I have now is one of the nastiest civil sport dogs you will ever see. Many have said his father may be one of the best living bite here in the US 
His grand father may go down in history as the best producing working German Shepherd to walk the planet His other grand father come from the famous Karthago F Litter. None of this means shit to someone who doesn't know what I do at training or what working line shepherds are about.
Maybe I should get some camo PJ's and smear some charcoal on my self march around my back yard with my dog barking out some German commands. That to will keep the creepers away.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

> It's not we own a saltwater crocodile and keep it tied up in front of our bedroom door.


Man you are so full of crap! Don't think I didn't see all your gator supplies in the garage. I know you have one stashed somewhere....



The phrasing did come off a little, er.... you know.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

My biggest fear.........*Gas Prices*! YIPES! 8-[ 
My second biggest fear, *Breed Specific Legislation* and the morans who push it.
Few people have ever been attacked in their home when a dog of size and character has been there. For those who are active cops on this forum, please post something of value that said the owner's working dog turned ballast and ran. My bet, the bad guy paid the home owner protection money to get the dog off them!


----------



## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Boogey men under the bed, things that go bump in the night, axe murderers crawling in through the window, drugged out creeps at the door trying to get in (really happened) and the general fear that many single women who live alone have. 

My dogs are not likely to save me from a determined attacker, but I rely on the presence of three large dogs to be a deterrent. I sleep better at night knowing my dogs are near me.


----------



## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

Howard Gaines III said:


> My biggest fear.........*Gas Prices*! YIPES! 8-[
> My second biggest fear, *Breed Specific Legislation* and the morans who push it.


Agreed!! Add being caught in a tornado to the list, please.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Anna Kasho said:


> A BIG part of me wants to answer, none of your business.
> 
> However.
> 
> ...


Live in fear, never. but, the dogs barking and telling me we have company is another thing. Nothing to add excitement to your day like catching someone in your car, house or yard. The dog is just to keep the encounter from being fair. I always live living in the city for that reason. Got older and moved to the mountains Anna, I put your post in quotes because you said you raised parrots. I couldn't afford to keep my dogs around parrots but I had them for years. I started the Phoenix Cage company in the early 80's and closed it after NAFTA.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Live in fear, never. but, the dogs barking and telling me we have company is another thing. Nothing to add excitement to your day like catching someone in your car, house or yard. The dog is just to keep the encounter from being fair. I always live living in the city for that reason. Got older and moved to the mountains Anna, I put your post in quotes because you said you raised parrots. I couldn't afford to keep my dogs around parrots but I had them for years. I started the Phoenix Cage company in the early 80's and closed it after NAFTA.


Hey Don! Welcome back!


And back to our topic .....


----------



## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Mike Scheiber said:


> My opinion of a PPD is a dog that will fight a man or hold a man till pulled off or called off. That's the type of dog that I consider a PPD.
> 
> My OP question is what fear or paranoia would make you want a dog like this. I would like to add something that is really happening to you.
> I'm not trying to pry into personal lives so don't answer if you feel my question or your answer is intrusive.
> ...


This has been interesting to follow this subject. The first few post were on actual events that have happened and then went on to possible events that could happened. What I like about having a ppd is that he is not only a visual deterrent, but if he feels that a "friend" in my home changes his attitude....well, Zauro will change his attitude. Several years ago I was not only stalked, but I was raped by someone I knew. Someone that I thought I could trust. It is my understanding that the majority of murders that happen are committed by people who know you in some way or form. One of the first things the trainer/seller of my dog said to me was that he will not understand "horseplay". If Zo feels that I am being attacked, no matter if that person is a friend, loved one or stranger, he will protect me. Being raped is not the only reason for my decision to purchase a ppd. But, knowing that he can have a change of heart if a "friend" is trying to hurt me definitely helps. Yes, I am aware of the unknown boogie men who hide in bushes, but I am also aware of ones under the bed.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi

First of all, I appreciate that many posters have either lived through extremely bad experiences or, in Patrick Murray’s case, have experienced it through tragic experiences concerning “extended” family members. I would never ridicule persons experiencing fear, whether real or caused by panic attacks. Fear is often irrational and as such, difficult to bring under control. Also the case of rape by a known person left me thinking how my dogs would react, although I’m 99% certain they would have checked this out. I can also appreciate how such person would resort to buying a dog who can do the job. But can he????? My dogs have always and do “pick up on nuances” A friend is a friend until he steps over the limits.

However, I have some questions because I would like to learn:

Some of the requirements that the PPD should have, are in (my opinion) to be found in any normal, confident, well-balanced dog living in a good relationship with its owner / family.

What is the benefit of buying an adult (3yr. old dog??) as opposed to acquiring a puppy and going to train it oneself in “PPD”?

What are the disadvantages – ok a puppy will take a good few months to develop into the dog that will protect one but as I have experienced, the dog’s natural instinct is to protect his or hers. Are there any disadvantages in taking over an adult dog that is fully trained to do it’s work “regardless of the “connection” dog = owner?

I think I’ll leave it here for now - otherwise it will get too long.

In a nutshell: what will work – my own dog, eager to protect me or the dog who has been trained to protect, but not necessarily me????


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> Train like what


Like this:

(( most people I know don't even what I'm teaching my dogs I am very lax on there manners and behavior at home ))


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Gillian, if you have a puppy that is cut out for "real" work, and a competent trainer to assist you in training, then puppy is the way to go.

Unfortunately puppies are a roll of the dice, you never know what you get until the puppy is older. So what do you do if the puppy is older and you spent over a year working wtih him only to find out he's not that good? OK lets say you accept it and get a 2nd dog. Why will you have better luck with him? Will you then get a 3rd dog? 4th dog? 5th dog?

Adults have already been raised to show their traits. It isn't a matter of going out, buying an adult and voila you have a protection dog. You can bond wtih an adult dog just like you can bond wtih a puppy, and alot of training goes into it even after the dog is "fully trained." You can buy a fully trained dog, but you still need to work with the dog and develop the bond. I would personally choose a green dog that shows the traits I like for the purpose I am selecting for. I don't have much faith in other people to train a dog the way I'd like with the same care that I would take in training my own dog.

Another problem with puppies is that people are blind when it comes to their own dog. You put a year or more into a puppy, the puppy isn't that great but you are blind to that fact, or perhaps you just lack the experience to understand what is in front of you (not talking about YOU specifically, just in general).

Then there's the abundance of idiot PPD trainers out there, many with the mentality of "do what it takes to make the dog do what the owner wants the dog to do, regardless of the dogs suitability to perform." I have seen alot of abusive training come around from this.

Me personally, I like puppies. If the puppy doesn't work out then thats fine, I dont need a PPD, I like my dogs just the way they are, faults and all. People have commented on my ability to be brutally honest with myself about my dogs faults. I accept faults and weaknesses as being part of who my dog is, I don't need to talk up my dog to anyone, nor do I neccesarily have to tell everyone my dogs problems either. Who am I trying to impress? I don't need to make statements like "His grand father may go down in history as the best producing working German Shepherd to walk the planet" either. My dog is for me, and only me. If someone doesnt like a dog that jumps up, then don't pet my dog. If my dog is scared of thunder, or whatever the flaw may be, what business is it of someone else? Being realistic is important, or you will have a false sense of security when your dog is around.

At the end of the day, if I TRULY NEED a PPD that I KNOW can handle the work, not only am I going to be spending alot of cash, but I am also going to be spending alot of time for the right adult that someone is willing to part with. The best you can do with a puppy is stack the odds in your favor.

Good thing I don't NEED a PPD. If my dogs are capable of it then perfect. If not, I'm happy if they have a big bark and a nice alert command. Cujo is the dog least likely to inflict any damage on anyone, but he is my dog of choice when I feel like I would benefit from the presence of a big dog with a mean bark.


----------



## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

No fear or paranoia here -I live in the quietest of rural neighbourhoods but I like the "early-warning" that a dog gives(I don't have good hearing myself and can't tell what direction noises are coming from) that a dog gives and like the visual and audio deterent.


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Mike,I understand what you mean. It is your dog for better or worse. While we do differ on this, I do understand. I have had dogs that I have gotten very attached to because they loved to be with me. Dependent dogs. While I thoroughly enjoyed the dog(s) They were the first ones I placed because dependence in a dog is not something I value. Maybe it is the breeder in me, maybe it is because I have enough dogs that I don't want to take the space up that a dog I see a future in could be occupying. Then again, maybe it is because I never have to buy a dog so its value is only related to it's inate ability to do something worthwhile. I am not a trainer so my more confident/dependent dogs go to those that need to be able to train them. None of my dogs are trained and they will jump up on people. If they don't like dogs, they better not come over. The bottom line, there is only so much room and if I am going to feed them, they are going to be what I want. The dogs are my alarm that something is not right. If they sound different than normal, I quietly slip out the back and slip into the shadows and stand there to see who or what is moving around.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Don, I think there is a certain crossover point between different perspectives in the dog world based on the number of dogs that come and go from your posession (like a broker or breeder). I think its all a state-of-mind thing. If I buy a dog with the intent to sell, then I will sell the dog without worrying about it. But if I buy a dog that is supposed to be MY dog, odds are the dog will be with me till death do us part. I am also a pretty posessive person. I dont like other people driving my car, I didn't share my coloring pencils when I was a kid (ok, I shared with that cute blonde girl, but that doesnt count), and it even bothers me when someone takes my dogs leash and walks with my dog. I think thats why I like the less social dogs, they appeal more to my personality  But I would have an incredibly hard time watching someone drive away with a dog that I raised as my own, while I have never had a problem saying goodbye to the dogs broker friends of mine had for sale that I spent alot of time playing and training with.




> Unfortunately puppies are a roll of the dice, you never know what you get until the puppy is older. So what do you do if the puppy is older and you spent over a year working wtih him only to find out he's not that good? OK lets say you accept it and get a 2nd dog. Why will you have better luck with him? Will you then get a 3rd dog? 4th dog? 5th dog?


Just to clarify what I meant here: Its not about keeping the dog or not, but its the amount of time it takes to go from 8 weeks -> the age where you know what the dog is capable of. If you have to wait for 5 dogs to reach 10 or 12 or 18 months old after one unsuitable dog after the next, thats alot of time that could have been saved by buying an adult.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Quote Mike Schoonbrood
Me personally, I like puppies. If the puppy doesn't work out then thats fine, I dont need a PPD, I like my dogs just the way they are, faults and all. People have commented on my ability to be brutally honest with myself about my dogs faults. I accept faults and weaknesses as being part of who my dog is, I don't need to talk up my dog to anyone, nor do I neccesarily have to tell everyone my dogs problems either. Who am I trying to impress? I don't need to make statements like "His grand father may go down in history as the best producing working German Shepherd to walk the planet" either. My dog is for me, and only me. If someone doesnt like a dog that jumps up, then don't pet my dog. If my dog is scared of thunder, or whatever the flaw may be, what business is it of someone else? Being realistic is important, or you will have a false sense of security when your dog is around.
Unquote

I guess that sums up what I'm thinking! 

Gillian


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Ofcourse I'd just like to point out that my dogs are perfect and I was speaking totally hypothetically 

Nah, re-reading what I wrote it just sounds like I am suggesting that I have problem dogs. No dog is perfect, and anyone that says their dog is has something wrong wtih their eyes. Whether it is something minor like not wanting to go near a lawn mower or something bigger, its important to be aware of the dogs limitations however minor they might be. I get so bored of people telling me how amazing their dog is, then you go watch the dog work and he lets go of the sleeve, runs away from the helper, goes into avoidance on stick hits, bites totally frontal with canines, or whatever it might be.

I think the key is picking a dog wtih weaknesses that don't hinder the strengths in the area that you want the dog to work. For example, if your dog has really strong drive for a ball or a rag but doesnt care much about food, but your goal is a narc dog -- then who cares if the dog has weak food drive?


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Tell a man his wife looks lie a cod fish, his children are stupid but for God's sake don't tell him his dog is not worth the food he's paying for.

Gillian


----------



## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I get so bored of people telling me how amazing their dog is, then you go watch the dog work and he lets go of the sleeve, runs away from the helper, goes into avoidance on stick hits, bites totally frontal with canines, or whatever it might be.


So you're saying those are flaws?? I guess my dog isn't perfect then. My trainer said that letting go of the sleeve would be beneficial because it would help when training an out, that running away from the helper was better than not noticing the helper, that avoidance on stick hits was totally normal - I mean, do you wanna get hit with a stick?, and biting with just the front canines meant he would save the wear and tear on the back teeth, and he needs those in order to eat.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Am I reading you loud and clear?? Or ae you having us on??

Gillian


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

:lol: The sad thing is that there's people who do believe that.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Am I reading you loud and clear?? Or ae you having us on??
> 
> Gillian


It was a joke. :lol:


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Gee, you have humoristic qualities on here???


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Gee, you have humoristic qualities on here???


Yes, but it's frequently a bit bent. :lol:


----------



## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

It was a joke...apologies to anyone who didn't understand that...My humor has gotten me in trouble often.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

marcy bukkit said:


> It was a joke...apologies to anyone who didn't understand that...My humor has gotten me in trouble often.


I fits in here, though. :lol:


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I actually like "bent humour - when I "get it"#-o 

Gillian


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

I don't have "PPD" but I do have trained GS's. At the end of the day I think it is my place to protect my "kids" then the other way around. But I know if they needed to I wouldn't even have to ask. I like having the security of them in my home and at work and in the car. I hope no one would ever break into any of those places mentioned but I know the reality is that it could happen. If it did happen then having three big GS muzzles and six eyes pointed at you wouldn’t make you change your mind then I don’t know what would… Paranoid? No, Scare? Not so much, but then again I walk around my neighborhood at night with my kids and no one would dare mess with a girl with three big GS’s


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Like this:
> 
> (( most people I know don't even what I'm teaching my dogs I am very lax on there manners and behavior at home ))


I have turned my Shepherd into a pisstoff angry wanting to kill soulless cyborg on the protection field. And a mindless robot on the obedience field he can be just a dog at home.


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I have turned my Shepherd into a pisstoff angry wanting to kill soulless cyborg on the protection field. And a mindless robot on the obedience field...


Uh-huh.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Uh-huh.


I just wanted to reinforce the; Uh-huh.

DFrost


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> I don't have "PPD" but I do have trained GS's. At the end of the day I think it is my place to protect my "kids" then the other way around. But I know if they needed to I wouldn't even have to ask. I like having the security of them in my home and at work and in the car. I hope no one would ever break into any of those places mentioned but I know the reality is that it could happen. If it did happen then having three big GS muzzles and six eyes pointed at you wouldn’t make you change your mind then I don’t know what would… Paranoid? No, Scare? Not so much, but then again I walk around my neighborhood at night with my kids and no one would dare mess with a girl with three big GS’s


I think it's a parents responsibility to protect their kids. You take all three dogs with you and that should surely help protect the kid. Is it a dog for each kid?

DFrost


----------



## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I'm with Marcy on this.  My dogs only have foundations of bitework. but I have one good barker and no one can get onto my property without his defense bark. Gives me time to grab a cell phone and bolt the door. 

I live in a pretty good area, but my security is my responsibility. A gate on the porch, ambiguous "Do not Enter" signs with a photo of a snarling dog, and a black dog with a big jump and a big defense bark keeps the salesmen away. 

The dogs are a good visual deterrent. I train bitework for other reasons not at all related to biting people. My dogs totally suck and cannot take pressure.


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

David Frost said:


> I think it's a parents responsibility to protect their kids. You take all three dogs with you and that should surely help protect the kid. Is it a dog for each kid?
> 
> DFrost


No I call my dogs my "Kids" so I take all three of my fur covered kids on walks with me lol


----------



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jamielee Nelson said:


> No I call my dogs my "Kids" so I take all three of my fur covered kids on walks with me lol


Well, I'll give you a serious reply, now that David has had his fun teasing you. :lol:

"Furkids" is one of those terms that just seem to epitomize the humanizing of dogs.

That's pretty much guaranteed to be counterproductive. Recognizing that your dog is a dog, and that he doesn't have to be something else, is probably a good thing for your relationship with him.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Uh-huh.


Ok my terminology got a bit carried away. But we train allot something all most every day and it's all Schutzhund and what is Schutzhund? "Total Control" My dog is a clown loves to play likes attention mischeavious never lets me out of his sight the I'm the center of his universe also a requirement for Schutzhund but just very cool dog. 
He is going to be a very nice Schutzhund dog but I also enjoy letting him just be him self with minimal rules and restrictions he deserves it.
I think I hijacked my own thread #-o


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Furkid folks!!!! ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) 
But I'll hold off giving my honest opinion. 
Well..............maybe not! 
This IS A WORKING DOG FORUM. Please read all the "stuff" you were supposed to read before joining this forum.


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Well, I'll give you a serious reply, now that David has had his fun teasing you. :lol:
> 
> "Furkids" is one of those terms that just seem to epitomize the humanizing of dogs.
> 
> That's pretty much guaranteed to be counterproductive. Recognizing that your dog is a dog, and that he doesn't have to be something else, is probably a good thing for your relationship with him.


 
I personally realize my dogs are dogs but I would be lying if I said I don’t see them as a member of my family rather then just another thing in the house. Having no real “kids” or a spouse I think makes a difference in the way that we value their company. 
I am of course one of those people who are fine with naming my dog “Samantha or betty” (no none of those r really my dogs names) and I don’t believe that giving them “human” names makes them in less dogs. 
Sure it’s easy to take a look in your dogs’ eyes and think they are can understand and sympathize with us from time to time. I know though that they really has no idea what I say to them but it doesn’t matter I still tell them about my day from time to time 

I think Cesar Millan said it best “They are friendly, affectionate, and highly intelligent companions, but their mental processes are not the same as ours. A dog's fulfillment doesn't depend upon the cute outfits you buy for him. He doesn't remember with resentment the time you skipped the dog park because it was raining. And he won't love you more because you buy a more expensive brand of dog food. The keys to a calm, balanced dog are regular exercise, stable leadership, and affection given at the right time. “


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Furkid folks!!!! ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
> But I'll hold off giving my honest opinion.
> Well..............maybe not!
> This IS A WORKING DOG FORUM. Please read all the "stuff" you were supposed to read before joining this forum.


I read all of the *Forum Anouncements & Rules*
If you believe I missed one or I am not reading in the right places please link me to where I should go. I mean no trouble of course just posting on my down time at the hopsital in between shifts. thanks!


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

:lol: :lol: What I believe Bob was trying to say, is that this being a working dog forum, generally usage of the word "kids" "furkids" "furbabies" etc do not go over so well, and is typically indicative of a person that perhaps confuses this forum with a pet forum, where all dogs are cute snuggly wuggly lil cupcake teddy bears 

We all love our dogs, but recognize that a dog is a dog is a dog.


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Scheiber said:


> I have turned my Shepherd into a pisstoff angry wanting to kill soulless cyborg on the protection field. And a mindless robot on the obedience field he can be just a dog at home.


I turned my dog into a bug chasing demonoid psychopath! Tell him "ga spelen" and you better watch out if you're a bug and you can fly!!! Bad hips or not, he will get your ass and tear off your wings a millimeter at a time, leaving you writhing in pain and flightlessness in the final seconds of your miserable life of laying eggs in canine fecal matter.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

My fur babies get bottled water, fed on sterling silver plates, and eat 2" hand cut steaks. They wear designer leather goods and sleep on Eddie Bauer goose down throws. Sometimes, I change the color of the kennel wall to wall carpet to match the mood they are in! [-X And they only eat fresh sheep poo!!!8-[


----------



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> My fur babies get bottled water, fed on sterling silver plates, and eat 2" hand cut steaks. They wear designer leather goods and sleep on Eddie Bauer goose down throws. Sometimes, I change the color of the kennel wall to wall carpet to match the mood they are in! [-X And they only eat fresh sheep poo!!!8-[



Hey!! There are two guys in the last club I was in who gave their dogs bottled water. I never did see their kennels. But they talked about heated blanket and $200 dog beds...hmmmm :-k


----------



## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Hey! I have a $200 dog bed (not worth $200... but cost it, in the same way that a 500 Vari-Kennel costs almost $300 here....). Ofcourse, thats for Mr Dysplastic bug-killer, who chooses the tile anyway. The others get plastic, concrete and pea gravel


----------



## marcy bukkit (Oct 4, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> Furkid folks!!!! ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)


How about furworkingkids??
:razz: 

I call them furkids. While they sleep in crates, wear prong collars, perform advanced obedience commands, eat kibble out of a stainless steel bowl, drink out of the toilet, herd sheep, bite a helper, climb over an Aframe and do all sorts of things that a working dog does. I call them furkids, but I absolutely, 100% see them as a dog.

I have other nicknames for them that are even less postable


----------



## Jamielee Nelson (Apr 24, 2008)

marcy bukkit said:


> How about furworkingkids??
> :razz:
> 
> I call them furkids. While they sleep in crates, wear prong collars, perform advanced obedience commands, eat kibble out of a stainless steel bowl, drink out of the toilet, herd sheep, bite a helper, climb over an Aframe and do all sorts of things that a working dog does. I call them furkids, but I absolutely, 100% see them as a dog.
> ...


 
It’s good to know I am not the only one who has this nickname for my dogs. And yes my dogs are well…. Dogs (well at least that’s what the breeder told me though one I swear is part fish). 

But I do appreciate the upbeat and comical responses. Though I will try and refrain from using this nickname for my kids in this forum I am sure I will slip up many times again.


----------



## Jack Martin (Feb 12, 2008)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> I turned my dog into a bug chasing demonoid psychopath! Tell him "ga spelen" and you better watch out if you're a bug and you can fly!!! Bad hips or not, he will get your ass and tear off your wings a millimeter at a time, leaving you writhing in pain and flightlessness in the final seconds of your miserable life of laying eggs in canine fecal matter.


LMAO. I need to have my house exterminated.What do you charge? 
Back to subject: I imagine we all have some fears inside of things happening to the people or things we care about most.Obviously, woemen have much more to be aware of and we as men have to worry about the woemen in our life too.Sometimes the little things comfort us and if simple things like a deteerent do that than so be it.However, I do believe that a well trained dog that knows how to bite can be beneficial if someone (be it yourself or your loved one) is in a bad situation. We never know when the moment might occur,more than likely when our guard is down.It's always nice to have someone watching your back.


----------



## Michelle Reusser (Mar 29, 2008)

I have a cute little nickname I call my dogs, it starts with F too but I shouldn't really post it here. :-\" 

Back to subject, I think many of us REFUSE to live in fear or don't even think about reasons to have a PPD, but like working a dog in protection work. I told my daughter years ago I would get a PPD one day and I did. That dog sucked, when she died, the training bug had already took hold and I will always have at least one dog in training or trained. Since I was my daughters age, probably younger, I have been facinated with dogs that work, not just protection work but anyjob that they were bred to do, helping mankind. I love dogs and usually have 2-4 at once. I have only gone 1 year 3 months without a dog in my life (damn the military) but my dog was left behind with family and I got her back as soon as I could.

Today is Mothersday, I am a mother and it's my day to do what makes me happiest. I'm taking my dogs swimming and catching a few rays on these white legs. Have a good one all!


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Hey! I have a $200 dog bed (not worth $200... but cost it, in the same way that a 500 Vari-Kennel costs almost $300 here....). Ofcourse, thats for Mr Dysplastic bug-killer, who chooses the tile anyway. The others get plastic, concrete and pea gravel


OH Mike! We can't call them Vari-Kennels sir, it might, well...cause them to have issues with their work down the road. We like to think of them as "reflection lodges." Little homes where they can think about sweet smelling poodles, freshly washed car tires that need a good pissing, and the tons of cat poo which should be personally cleaned to the chefs delight!:mrgreen: 

Why my chillins get the best motivational training that I can bellow out on a Sunday morning, like an old Marine DI. And after training, we sit around and sip Southern sweet tea and munch on Scottish shortbread! =D>


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Then I wish my dogs a lot of reflection while I'm munching - I'm very partial to shortbread, a delicacy
in Switzerland and damn dear into the bargain!

Gillian


----------



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Furkid folks!!!! ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
> But I'll hold off giving my honest opinion.
> Well..............maybe not!
> This IS A WORKING DOG FORUM. Please read all the "stuff" you were supposed to read before joining this forum.


What's that Bob???


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hey Don! Good to see ya!


----------

