# Tracking and the Wind



## Kelly Johnson (Nov 21, 2010)

I know wind must have some effect on a dogs track. I was wondering how do you as a handler adjust to wind direction? 

And also other factors such as snow and rain?

I am interested in Police/Sar tracking, if that makes a difference.

Thanks,
Kelly


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

hi kelly just so yr not talking to yrself. n to be clear i'm a newb but have made a lot of progress with tracking, have the right dog for it though. 

to help what style of tracking are you training. why do you think its a problem, does yr dog take you for a walk instead of tracking. do you know where/what you are tracking, what terrain, how old is the track, did you lay the track yourself, have you got a precise map of every step/stage, how long is the track, how many direction changes and what angles, really need more info to be able to help.

further a lot sports trainers want the dog to follow the track like it 's nose is on a rail, look at some of their tracks they train on, you can see the tracks with your own eyes - what a joke n they correct the dog for lifting its nose. my dog tracks in any wind conditions and usually stays about 3-8m off the track. 

use a very long lead, stop and let it problem solve in a circle around you when it gets stuck, don't encourage it or speak to it, you will just distract it. trust your dog or you will be teaching it how not to track n it will just take you for a a walk when you don't know where the track is .

i have stopped using a lead altogether. your dog already knows how to track. you just need to learn how to not give it bad associations. i'm sure the sports trackers will chime in n tell you something competley different.

tracking is so cool, i hope you get the right answers.

cheers


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Peter. if your dog is tracking downwind of the track he is probably moving along pretty good and it sound like he is trailing because the track is good enough for the dog to move down wind and move it faster. When tracking a dog has his nose about on the ground because of lack of scent. Trailing good scent the dog usually has his head in a higher position also. This is one of the areas when terminology gets really screwed up IMO.


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## Kelly Johnson (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks guys...

My dog has very good drive for tracking and loves doing it,and takes it very serious. I am just trying to make sure I am doing everything right in his training. I was just curious if there was anything I should do to adjust to wind direction. I noticed when the wind is blowing hard he weaves from side to side on the track. Still successful tracks...


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

if your dog is weaving side to side (quartering) in the wind i would say don't sweat it, that dog is working - not acceptable in sch but you haven't said what you are training for - advice will differ greatly depending on what you are tring to achieve especially if you are tracking for points or tracking for...

have you ever let the dog off leash to see if it can complete the track successfully and efficiently.

if i have a known track i physically pull my dog off it with a lead untill it fights me to get back on track, it can help with committment. it does not help obedience though - i want a stuborn dog that will track in spite of any commands or distractions. - i'm not tracking for points though.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

is the dog to also find dropped articles? or the prize at the end?
that may influence how you want the dog to track.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Kelly Johnson said:


> I know wind must have some effect on a dogs track. I was wondering how do you as a handler adjust to wind direction?
> 
> And also other factors such as snow and rain?
> 
> ...


For the dogs I've trained and worked you can have some dogs that will zigzag on a track and others that just work straight ahead . Doesn't make a difference as long as they get the guy at the end . As for how wind effects a track I usually see it where the dog will work the track paralleling it down wind of the track . It's nose will still be on the ground but just off and down wind of the track . The higher the wind the further away it will work paralell from the track . Snow is good for holding scent but you can sometimes get a dog that has tracked alot in snow start to cheat and just visually follow the footprints . Rain can eventually wash away a track but unless it's a really heavy downpore the shelflife of the track in the rain is still pretty good .


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter...



Kelly Johnson said:


> I know wind must have some effect on a dogs track. I was wondering how do you as a handler adjust to wind direction?
> 
> And also other factors such as snow and rain?
> 
> ...


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## Kelly Johnson (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. I am defintely not worried about points or sport style tracking. Im just out there having fun but I would much rather do police/sar style tracking. Just seems much more fun for me and the dog.

I usually will get someone to run a track and hide. If I am by myself I will lay the track and hide his ball at the end, and we play a fun game of tug when he finds it. Either way he tracks with the same enthusiasm. He loves it. I do too :-D 

I havent started articles yet. Whats the best way to introduce articles?


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

OK so i should read the whole post before replying - got it. well now that you pointed that out, ah here check out the pic i just put up in gallery my girl in her first hunt - thems the only points i'm chasin n the 2 points on the end of a boars tusks. SAR is that a sport or service training??

as far as police tracking - DON"T DO WHAT SCH PEOPLE DO n you'll be fine


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## Kelly Johnson (Nov 21, 2010)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> OK so i should read the whole post before replying - got it. well now that you pointed that out, ah here check out the pic i just put up in gallery my girl in her first hunt - thems the only points i'm chasin n the 2 points on the end of a boars tusks. SAR is that a sport or service training??
> 
> as far as police tracking - DON"T DO WHAT SCH PEOPLE DO n you'll be fine


Search and Rescue


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## Kelly Johnson (Nov 21, 2010)

Peter...

Sure looks like a successful track =D> Good Girl!


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

thanks for the comment shes a maniac, doesn't listen to a single word i say, she will check in every 3 k or so, that must =l traking game + tracking handler cause i am never where she left me. got telemtry on her now, kinda fun to see how they work. i swear that hound will run her pads raw n prfer to dehydrate than quit a track.

i get the SAR bit, i just wasn't sure if it has morphed into an official sport these days. would be something i would be interested in - know any links to a rule book. 

cheers


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The SV has some sort of SAR title that can be earned. Not sure if it's been done in the States though.


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## Rik Wolterbeek (Jul 19, 2009)

*as far as police tracking - DON"T DO WHAT SCH PEOPLE DO n you'll be fine*

Can you explain why?


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

You know police I think are more geared towards tracking and I know SAR is more geared towards trailing. ...... There are differences in age of trail and level of contamination when you start. 

I am not going to give my conjecture on police tracking as there are plenty of police here, which I am not, but typical SAR is ...you only have a vague idea where the trail began so you have to cast the dog to find it (sometimes over a large area), five million people have walked over it, a car is probably idling on top of it, and it is several hours old, but you do have a scent article.

But, yes, the terminology can be a hoot. I think there is a continuum between the two disciplines and that is why it is such shades of grey. You can't hurt a dog by starting it in schutzhund or even AKC style (which allows the dog to quarter) tracking though, JMO. I think it is a good thing because I think it is a natural inclination of most of the herding dogs to air-scent and a foundation in tracking helps with keeping the head down.

I did look over the RH stuff and it seemed, to me, to be very heavy on obedience and very minimalist on scent work. The tracking test is more of a non-scent article track test but allows you to be off the track within a specified distance.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Hi Rik, kinda expecting someone to pounce on that one. i will admit i have no titles to my name so you may wish to stop reading now. 

still here!!! i do hunt and will put my pup up against any sch III dog in the bush, off leash tracking fast moving dangerous game. 

can't outline a full explanation here becuase you would give up from boredom before you read it all so why waste my time but in very summarised i will take the most obvious reasons;

i have seen sch trial (not training) tracks where the handler can/should see the tracks with their own eyes - why use a dog??

speed of a sch dog - unless the thing you are tracking died down the track a sch dog would never catch it

the handler has some idea where the track starts, at least they know that there is a track to find. sch dogs are typically so scared of getting smashed by the handler they would soon learn that on a real unkown track - unkown to handler as well it would be safer for dog to never even find the track, so they won't. 

nature has given dogs a range of tools for tracking why use only one in FST.

sch usues tracking as an obed excercise i see it as a drive excercise

the list goes on.

PS i want to get into sports, tracking is the main reason i don't want to start sch, that and the hopeless agility they do what one, 1m wall or something.

i have to get past this before starting the sport i guess but it is a struggle. 

glad to hear your opinions


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Peter Cavallaro said:


> Hi Rik, kinda expecting someone to pounce on that one. i will admit i have no titles to my name so you may wish to stop reading now.
> 
> still here!!! i do hunt and will put my pup up against any sch III dog in the bush, off leash tracking fast moving dangerous game.
> 
> ...


the post was about SAR, not tracking fast moving dangerous game,,,,just saying...


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

using a lighter, or cigarette / cigar or even powder u can get a sense of wind direction, real simple is to go into it down wind if possible, doesn't always work that way but thats the ideal one. Theres alot more into than that humidity, time of year, ground coverage, urban vs rural, etc...... All things you need to learn and consider about the main area your working in.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

I have said this a few times before but where most screw a dogs tracking up is by not spending enough time in the field with the dog loose so he can learn how to use his nose in real life situations. They don't get that living in the house or kennel and they don't learn it on the end of a leash. Once "the dog" knows what he is doing, you can teach how you want him to use it. Up until then, you have a handler that can't smell what a dog smells jerking a dog around that doesn't fully understand how to use his nose outside, in the wind, in the snow, etc, etc. Of course I am not a believer in all the "crushed vegetation" stuff either. Dogs track through defoliated sking and humans defoliate skin constanly just like animals.

These two photos were taken with a 600mm long lens of two different dogs tracking, the first is about a 6 mo old dog on a 1/2 mikle track. They weren't learning to track, they were learning to track a bottled scent which they woukldn't normally do. In two days they were on the bottled scent for this 1/2 mile track with two creek crossings. They are both right n the same track and you can see the same rock behind each. They ran the track about an hour apart. No handler any where around.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Don, having raised up that mastiff bitch of mine like that I really cannot argue with what you say. Her scent ability and orientation is different from the others I've had of her breed but this was something very obvious about her from pretty much the day I got her.

I read similar view points in detection literature about the advantages free range dogs have over kennel dogs. Seeing it first hand does provide a different vantage point, especially what you say about crushed vegetation. I've seen my dog run down a trail at a trot only to be jerked to a stop by her nose that finds its way to a broad leaf of a devils club plant. It's perfectly intact but a quick study of the area reveals that something has jumped off the trail and back into the thickets. Clearly, the vegetation in a further area has been damaged but her attention is on a different surface which she dedicates considerable attention and a different intensity to. 

She's done FST and more recently I have been setting up different detection situations for her for about a year now. I was interested in knowing if this non toy driven, true prey driven dog might work in a different capacity. Granted I had to go about it a different way then most, but it does seem that this is something she's naturally inclined to do and with relative ease. I do not expect that this one example could be used to paint other big game dogs with a similar brush but it would be interesting to look into. I've found it to be quite interesting to muddle around with just to see where things go.


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