# Damn, this is pure heartache



## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

On wednesday night I saw that Nandi's right stifle and hock. It was pitting edema (when I palpated it left indentation). I thought maybe he had an infection, or a bad bite. I checked his joint briefly, no pain, no guarding. Nothing. I had to bring him into the ER vet because it was after hours. Unfortunately, they found a huge mass along his inside thigh extending near the penis about half way down the thigh. How could I have missed this??? I thought. He went to the vet about a month ago for a bad GI infection and there was no mass. Vet said not to be hard on myself because he is extremely well-muscled and furry in the area. There was no lameness, none. I stretch him after intensive training (but never compared sides- I just never check that area) The mass was preventing the lymph from draining back up the leg and pressing on his penis. I was able to massage the leg to a norma size.
They took 2 fine needle aspirations of the mass which only proved to be "inconclusive" and Nandi needing a formal biopsy under general anesthesia.
We were able to have a surgery consult the next day at the University of Minnesota. Under conscious sedation he had a chest x-ray and the surgeons were able to closely evaluate the mass without him fussing. It is about the size of two fists side by side extending from near the penis down the thigh, They were unable to differentiate the hamstrings or quadricep muscles - suggesting that the mass was over these superficial muscles and quite likely entangled in them. 
Yesterday he had two samples biopsied. The surgeons described the mass as "multi-lobular" and extremely vascularized (bloody-lots of blood vessels in it) There was no signs of trauma to the muscle ( CK values were normal), there was no evidence of abscess or an infectious process. This damn thing may be ******cancer. I now this from my work in the health care field masses that are highly vascular, irregular in form with ill-defined margins that are growing fast- do point to a cancer of some sort. They didn't need to tell me that. They are being very optimistic with me. The pathology reports won' t be in for several days. Surgeons commented that the location - they decribed at as more inguinal (groin) was quite an uncommon occurence for them. Depending on the results, further tests are needed CT or MRI to better grasp the location of the tumor and to help them form a plan to remove it, if that it was I decide to do. The mass is just under the skin, over the thigh muscles, then dives deeper down the thigh.
The damn incision dehisced this morning due to my mistake with the elizabethen collar - back to the vet for staples. We are trying a sedative to help him cope and protect the incisions. He is his normal happy-go-lucky self. No lameness. Can't even tell anything happened.

Sadly, even if its benign, I was informed, the resection of the tumor will be difficult.

Nandi is five years old. Mom and dad are 10 and 13 respectively and very healthy. Nandi just did a very nice SchH 1 outing in July. He is my first SchH dog, I was planning on trialing for his 2 later this fall, now that has all changed. Its not the titles I give a crap about. Its the absolute joy this dog brings to me.
Good news too, is that the horrible swelling is down considerably. The hock and stifle are normal-sized and the pressure is off his penis so he can pee. 

I think I may have some tough, icky, decisions ahead of me. In the meantime, I'll just love him up.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

sorry to here it....


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sorry to hear about it, Sarah...if it is cancer, I hear very good things about the University of Minnesota's oncology service, so I'm sure Nandi is in good hands. We likewise like to use the CT or MRI for the best localization of the mass. Keep us updated with the results from the path report and best of luck keeping him off the sutures.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

I am sorry and hope this gets better....


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

He'll be all rite


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

Thanks....I am optimistic.
Hard part is keeping him calm. Hard part, too, not having any further information to guide what to do....


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

I am so sorry! If the tumor is not operable d/t location, I would try putting him on tumeric, it has been shown to be able to stop the blood vessels that supply cancerous tumors from growing, and its preventive effects may come from its strength as an antioxidant, protecting cells from damage.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

ugh, got interrupted by a patient, lol, coudlnt finish my post above. You dont want to give turmeric before surgery because of blood thinning properties.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> Thanks....I am optimistic.
> Hard part is keeping him calm. Hard part, too, not having any further information to guide what to do....



Know exactly what you are feeling right now...been there 5 months ago with my dog...im crossing my fingers for you 

was wondering in case you need to keep him very sedate...would phenobarb be an option ? I had to keep my girl calm and the only option had was using pheno on her for 10 days...maybe its an option for you to in a lower dosage ? mine was out most of the time so im not sure thats what you would be looking for here but a lower dosage might just be enough to keep him in a right state of mind for the next few days

Good luck !


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Acepromazine is the tranquilizer they usually use to keep them calm, but benadryl can also work for some. The acepromazine lowers blood pressure though.


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## Chris Smith (Jul 29, 2010)

That just plain sucks! I do not envy the decisions you will have to make. I am hoping for the best for both of you


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Just hoping there will be good outcome.

Gill


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

I am so sorry. I hope for better than good news .



Celhaus Hadanne and Celhaus Talisman .


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

Very sorry to hear this kind of news. Keep us posted. Sending healing thoughts to Nandi.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

Just off the phone from the Vet at the Univ of Minnesota - GREAT NEWS! ITS NOT CANCER! The cells were consistent for a severe inflammatory response that is seen from the result of a foreign body. For whatever reason, a torn muscle or some avulsed tissue (loose body) is less likely, but who knows. The mass is still large, although swelling is down a lot. He will have an MRI to "map" it and then it will be removed this coming friday. They said it will be a kinda complicated surgery with all the nerves and vessels in that area. He will stay at the university of Minnesota for a day or two post-operatively.
I am so relieved. Hopefully we can return to running, jumping and biting someday....


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Like I said 


Mike Scheiber said:


> He'll be all rite


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> Just off the phone from the Vet at the Univ of Minnesota - GREAT NEWS! ITS NOT CANCER! The cells were consistent for a severe inflammatory response that is seen from the result of a foreign body. For whatever reason, a torn muscle or some avulsed tissue (loose body) is less likely, but who knows. The mass is still large, although swelling is down a lot. He will have an MRI to "map" it and then it will be removed this coming friday. They said it will be a kinda complicated surgery with all the nerves and vessels in that area. He will stay at the university of Minnesota for a day or two post-operatively.
> I am so relieved. Hopefully we can return to running, jumping and biting someday....


Hmm, that's pretty interesting (and sounds like good news to me!). Best of luck to Nandi (and his radiologists and surgeons!) on Friday.  And his students who'll take care of him over the weekend. ;-)  We had a rather well known SAR dog who came in when I was on orthopaedic surgery about 6 weeks ago who was my patient (can't say who it is) and the dog and his owner/handler were a real pleasure to work with.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Wow I just read this thread, and I am so happy he is going to be OK. What a horrible thing to go through, but I bet your feet are about 10 feet off the planet right now you are so relieved.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

Maren, I must admit my knowledge on canine anatomy isn't good (Iam a human physical therapist), and my knowledge of the surgical part is even less. The docs seem a bit perplexed with the location. Of course they will take a very close look at it after its out and that will also be sliced up and examined under a microscope. After all that, I can sigh. After all it was just TWO samples of a large mass. They haven't ruled out any surprises, but so far so good. What about this makes you feel its "interesting?'
I'll let you all know when the procedure is done.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Thank God it's not cancerous! Good luck with the surgery.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> Maren, I must admit my knowledge on canine anatomy isn't good (Iam a human physical therapist), and my knowledge of the surgical part is even less. The docs seem a bit perplexed with the location. Of course they will take a very close look at it after its out and that will also be sliced up and examined under a microscope. After all that, I can sigh. After all it was just TWO samples of a large mass. They haven't ruled out any surprises, but so far so good. What about this makes you feel its "interesting?'
> I'll let you all know when the procedure is done.


All of our K9s are treated at the U of M . Great group of people and do a great job .


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> Maren, I must admit my knowledge on canine anatomy isn't good (Iam a human physical therapist), and my knowledge of the surgical part is even less. The docs seem a bit perplexed with the location. Of course they will take a very close look at it after its out and that will also be sliced up and examined under a microscope. After all that, I can sigh. After all it was just TWO samples of a large mass. They haven't ruled out any surprises, but so far so good. What about this makes you feel its "interesting?'
> I'll let you all know when the procedure is done.


Yeah, it was more of intellectual curiosity thing that makes me wonder what the mass is exactly, which is why they'll be doing the histopathology of the mass. Basically they put it in formalin when they take it out during surgery, mount in a block of wax-like stuff, slice it with a special kind of mechanical knife called a microtome, mount it on a series of slides, stain it, and have the pathologists take a look at it again under the microscope. I had a patient once that had a really oddly invasive lipoma (AKA: fatty tumor) that invaded pretty significantly around the dog's hind end. Very strange. Guess the take home idea is that sometimes the masses don't read the textbook on how they are "supposed" to behave. :-?


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

We are off to the vet hospital for Nandi's surgery this morning. I will be glad when its over! Wish Nandi and the surgeons success!!! I've got some wonderful people to help me help him recover and assist me with my 11 month od GSD Pele while Nandi gets back on his feet.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I hope it all works out for you and Nandi, Good Luck!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Wishing Nandi much success, keeping everything crossed for a positive outcome.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Fingers crossed for you and Nandi


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Keep me/us informed he's in the care of one of the best hospitals in the world.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

I just got off the phone (my second phone call from the vets today) about hour or so ago. Nandi is recovering in post-anesthesia area.
The MRI showed a large fibrous mass (scar tissue) that has many "tentacles" that reach into muscle and other not-so-nice places. One tentacle is pressing on the ureter. But a little bit of fat, and the fact that the ureter can move over a bit, peeing won't be a problem in the near future. I was told before surgery because of these tentacles and how invasive it was AND the rich blood supply, that complete remval of the mass is not possible and could be fatal or lead to loss of function in leg or his ability to pee. From the MRI he went to surgery. They were able to take a large portion re: "most" of the mass out. Unfortunately, to the surgeons surprise the mass was just resting above the sciatic nerve and they could de-bulk no further in that area with risk of cutting off all the nerves to his leg.. And unfortunately the biopsy sites from last friday did NOT reach the center of the mass as hoped and therefore the possibility remains open once again that it may be cancerous. I knew this was a risk with a small biopsies on a large mass. The mass is largely on top of the thigh /hamstrings/gracilis muscles except for the nasty tentacles. Small portion of his inner thigh muscles had to be removed with the mass. The center was very firmly encased and fluid filled in the middle, he described it as being like an octopus. I hate octopi. I'd like to think of it as a hard piece of candy with a fliud-center. That is way more appealing. There is no infection. He was optimistic that this whole mass still could be a result of a foreign body and repeated chronic inflammation, especially if the path reports show "fibroblastic" cells as in the original biopsy. He hypothesized that the center of the mass was necrotic (dead tissue). There could have been a foreign body there at one time. He mentioned that he has seen this type of mass before in this area - typically long after a dog bite to the area or a dog getting impaled by something like a stick. He thought this thing has been a long time in the making. Nandi has never been bitten by a dog as in a fight, but has a tooth snags during play - but not with Pele, but with Sita. Sita may have bitten him , but who knows. Overall, he felt the procedure went very well and Nandi should be much more comfortable with most of the tumor removed. The did "mark" with radio-opaque (sp? - stuff that shows on imaging) material some edges and landmarks that will be used to see what the mass does post-operatively with xrays. They placed a large drain in there to allow crap to come out and fill the "dead space" where the the wad was taken out. I am tired of typing "tumor" and "mass", I will call it a "wad" He's a bit a stoic fella, poor guy, maybe now there will be less pain. Vets were amazed that he wasn't really ever lame.....

So, most of the thing is gone, and therefore Nandi should be at least more comfortable after the incsions heal up. He survived a potentially difficult partial resection. YAY!
The "wad" will get sliced and diced, dipped and stripped and studied by the lab - hopefully results by tuesday.
I have transformed my living room, which in reality is just the down stairs of my 500 sq. foot home in to an infirmary. Ok, OK,, I just did a massive cleaning and hauling crap to the garage. I get to try being a nurse when he gets home- either saturday afternoon or sunday. Bummer is that I have no vacation time left. Mom, and my neighbor have offered to help me watch him or Pele (OK, my mom cannot handle Pele at all!). I will be dashing home at lunch to check on Nandi ( I am grateful I live 10 minutes from work!)
I will be going to the U later today as the surgeons want to show me the gory details and explain the next steps in this process with me and post-op care.( I am grateful to live so close to the U!). Not sure I'll visit Nandi, because that might interfere with him just being calm. Still too early to decide on what is next, it depends on the path report once again. I am feeling optimistic, as are the vets.

The house is very empty with my dogs gone. The cat maybe wonders why his "staff" of playmates aren't on duty to please him - or in Pele's case annoy the crap out of him, although Loki does enjoy the drag line that Pele has in the house sometimes - weeeeeee!

As for myself, I am doing just fine. I am looking forward to training tomorrow to distract my self and attempt to train Pele.


Go hug your dogs....


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Glad he's doing okay in recovery!  I'd say go ahead and visit if they let you. We almost always encourage owners to visit the day after surgery if possible as they almost always brighten up. Thanks for the update too, as it sounds like he got excellent care. I'm most curious to see what else it says on the histopath.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Thanks for the update. I am so glad he is doing so well. An amazing strong dog, for sure. You are in our thoughts.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Thanks for the update. I am so glad he is doing so well. An amazing strong dog, for sure. You are in our thoughts.


I went back to the U to speak with the intern who assisted on the procedure. I did not visit Nandi as the vet agreed that visiting him tonight may be upsetting to him - they had to give him light sedation earlier because he was stressed.
I saw the MRI and even in my untrained eye, I could see the size of the Mo-fo. They showed me where most of the excision occurred and the "problem" areas.

The best case scenario: histopath shows only fibroblasts. With the center of the mass removed, the body may no longer need to be producing such a nasty inflammatory response by laying down more scar tissue - and therefore the "tentacles" will cease growing, things will calm down and heal up and he can return to being a normal healthy dog in 4-8 weeks. The surgeons have also seen these nasty masses and scarring with alms from grasses when he lived in California - I guess they burrow in the skin, etc. No such grasses (thanks!) here in Minnesota.

People have told me that the toughness of Nandi has been underappreciated. I am learning to give the guy credit - he can and does withstand alot of pressure in bitework. I smiled when I got high praise from Dean Calderon - who worked him several times this year: "Man you guys have no idea what a super dog you have here!" Nandi loves the fight, LOVES the fight. He may have another tough fight ahead of him. But all is OK right now. I love him tons and the staff at the U are taking care of him.


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## Rochele Smit (Feb 3, 2010)

Thank goodness! Here's to a speedy recovery!


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

Glad to hear the surgery went well! Keep us posted...


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sarah ten Bensel said:


> People have told me that the toughness of Nandi has been underappreciated. I am learning to give the guy credit - he can and does withstand alot of pressure in bitework. I smiled when I got high praise from Dean Calderon - who worked him several times this year: "Man you guys have no idea what a super dog you have here!" Nandi loves the fight, LOVES the fight. He may have another tough fight ahead of him. But all is OK right now. I love him tons and the staff at the U are taking care of him.


High praise indeed! Actually, it sounds like Nandi is tough and you are tough too, which is exactly what he will need to recover. Did Dean tell you the name of his first schutzhund dog? Nando.


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Veru happy to hear that he made out ok after the surgery and that it seems to be benign. You may want to consider giving him turmeric once the surgical wound is all healed(has blood thinning properties and could make it bleed and not heal properly). I know I would be giving it afterwards if it were my dog. I would , though, as soon as he gets home, start him on ester c to help wound healing.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm so glad to hear there is improvement. 

All the very best for a speedy recovery (for you both - I know it's hearbreaking to watch your dog become ill).

Gill


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Crazy stuff. Hopefully the dog recovers well and that is the last you have to deal with it.

It freaks me out to think that it could have been a grass seed or something that started it.


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

Great News! The pathology report: no cancer!!! The findings were consistent with scar tissue that forms around a foreign body. They did not find a foreign body - suggesting it had dissolved. Freakin' weird that such a huge mass could grow so fast and potentially cause so many problems. They did have to remove a small bit of the adductor magnus muscle, not the gracilis as I first thought. With appropriate rehab, the vets say he should make a complete recovery!!!!!!I am so happy about this I cannot tell you!

We can start gentle walks after the sutures come out. He does appear to have a seroma, but I am just watching it (fluid pocket under the large incision). I have been icing it. 
YAY!!!!!


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## Maureen A Osborn (Feb 12, 2010)

Oh that is great news Sarah!! I am so happy!! My dogo female that I had had a Mast Cell Tumor on her neck and after the excision of the tumor, she got the same, the seroma. I brought her to the vet once just to make sure what it was, and then I just drained it myself at home quite a few times until it healed. Ice may hinder the healing process(slows down the circulation). I know after an inury it is ice for the first 24-48 hours and then moist heat to help healing. If you have access to a needle and syringe, I would just drain some of the fluid from the base of it, IF it is really big, if is just a small lump, I would just leave it alone.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

Nice to read this kind of post with a good outcome. Happy Healing Nandi!


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## Sarah ten Bensel (Mar 16, 2008)

OK may seem a bit graphic, but you can see from the size of the area whhy I was so concerned! Thanks for the kind PM and postings. We will be back!!!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

YAY No cancer!!!!!! That is a huge incision, at least it looks like it's healing nicely, no?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

that IS a big incision!! your surgeon was "into it", lol.
but GREAT, GREAT news that it isn't cancerous!!!

but i wonder why "whatever" didn't encapsulate, migrate to the surface, and pop out? the reason i wonder is that i have a friend who was hit by shrapnel in vietnam, and he STILL gets shrapnel migrating out. hmmm....

any thoughts on that anyone?

bottom line, sarah--i'm SOOO happy for you and Nandi


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Great to hear!


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

This is great news!!! I'm very happy for you!!


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

ann schnerre said:


> that IS a big incision!! your surgeon was "into it", lol.
> but GREAT, GREAT news that it isn't cancerous!!!
> 
> but i wonder why "whatever" didn't encapsulate, migrate to the surface, and pop out? the reason i wonder is that i have a friend who was hit by shrapnel in vietnam, and he STILL gets shrapnel migrating out. hmmm....
> ...


Maybe a few thoughts. When I was 8, I fell through a plate glass window, which tore the shit out of my arm (in the top of the arm and out through the elbow) Anyway, of course it got numerous stitches. A year or two ago, I got a raised bump there on the scar tissue. It was itchy and got infected, and out came what was obviously a knot in a stitch that had never dissolved.
Only took it 16 years or so to come out.
I guess the body is just slow to expel things that aren't considered "foreign" enough to encapsulate and force out immediately.


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