# Flip Finish Video Please



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I am hoping that some of you would be kind enough to post some vids of your dog doing a flip finish.

Better yet, video of you teaching your dog a flip finish. Any and all methods welcome.

Steven Lepic...calling you out I seem to remember some nice vid of your dog doing this move from a long way back. You can start the posting....

My dog currently comes around behind me, but looking to learn how to do something different! My early attempts at luring/shaping this have been mediocre at best.

For the record I do not compete, but do have to pass a twice yearly formal ob exam. There are so many people here competing in dog sports I just know you guys have awsome obedience know how=D> Hoping you might share....


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2008)

The definition I heard of it is that it's literally like a flip. As in getting airborn and making the turn there. I gave up on that for the time being, but he does do the thing which isn't going around the back...whatever you wanna call it.

Secondly, I have absoloutely nothing special. My name got associated with this when someone passed on his impression that Eich spontaneously birthed the behavior one day.

Third, I taught it initially with food. I didn't lure this. He sat, I stood next to him, marked. Did that a billion times. Then just progressively inched away and would block him from any attempts at going around.

Here it was when we were working on going between the front and heel, which took some luring.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v15/keinhaar/?action=view&current=Picture003-2.flv


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The Balibanov DVD #2, "Obedience Without Conflict" does a nice job of showing it. The DVD in itself is excellent for motivational obedience.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

I taught it very similarly to Steven...not only did I step into place when the pup sat, but I also tried to watch the moment that he started sitting I would quickly maneuver so that we both ended up stopping our movement into position at the same time. I varied where I stood when doing this and started a lot with the pup in front of me...as he moved towards me I would step towards him, turning my body so that we ended up in correct position. Mauser is only about 14 weeks old and after marking this process a few times I've got the little guy leaping into heel position and I never had to lure him.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks guys...

My problem is that when I say "heel", no matter where the dog is he goes around behind me to the position.

So I suppose I need to start marking the heel position, doing some small movements to get him knowing he has to be there to be rewarded (rather than just moving forward). Remember i am a rookie with no ob help and have made mistakes! Then call it by a different name and stand with my back against the wall so he can't go behind me to get there?


Bob...we have raised some money to buy some ob reference materials at my work and that vid is on the list so I may just get to see it soon!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I taught the flip by working in a corner. "FUSS" and I would physically swing his backend around. I only left enough room against the wall so that his only comfortable choice would be the correct position. After a half dozen times of my forcibly moving him into position he began to do it himself.

It litterally took took me 20 minutes and a half weiner but I have a rottweiler so you can't expect your crazy GSDs and Mals to perform like him.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jennifer, I'll dig up batteries and a person to hold the camera and get something for you asap. I've been meaning to get some video for a while.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> I taught the flip by working in a corner. "FUSS" and I would physically swing his backend around. I only left enough room against the wall so that his only comfortable choice would be the correct position. After a half dozen times of my forcibly moving him into position he began to do it himself.
> 
> It litterally took took me 20 minutes and a half weiner but I have a rottweiler so you can't expect your crazy GSDs and Mals to perform like him.



Yes I tried something similar as well. I started with the dog in front and physically swung his back end around. Marked and food rewarded. He would start to move around on his own, but only about half way, and then I would have to scoot him in tight.

This was one session only or some easier way, but I though I may be missing some steps so thought I would seek some more advice before proceeding. I have a habit of skipping steps and proceeding to quickly.

The real issue for me is that when I taught the 'heel" I did not teach that it ment be stuck to my leg no matter what I do. To him it just meant walk beside me as I move forward, turn right, about turn, whatever. I have started to try to heel him backwards (up against a wall) to rectify this stuff.

Trying to make all my mistakes on this first dog so when I am ready for the next one I can teach things right the first time](*,)


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Anne Vaini said:


> Jennifer, I'll dig up batteries and a person to hold the camera and get something for you asap. I've been meaning to get some video for a while.


Ooooo Ooo I can't wait!! Thanks O


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

This may not be the best, but it is how I used to teach young pups.

I would teach the "sit" in front first.

Then I would pivot 180 deg to my left and "sit" the dog will take time to catch on to this, when he did, reward(food) in this case. I didn't worry if it took a week or two.

When the dog was understanding this, I would slowly change this from a total change of body position to just a shift of my shoulders with just a command (fuus or whatever) the dog will catch on quickly.

Towards the end it was just a "sit" towards me and a "fuus" to get the desired position, it seemed the more enthusiastic I was in the beginning with the rotation and the command , the better the flip in the end.

It worked for me, but this was with young pups.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Jennifer, if you've already taught the go round finish with the "heel" command, change the command to teach the flip. That wya you can use both. I had to do that with a competition dog I had some yrs back. I initially taught the flip finish with some heavy handed methods and the dog would lean in anticipation of my "manuvering"  him in place with my knee. I taught the go round with a different command and the dog had to listen to know which one I was going to give him. It stopped the anticipation. 
BTW, Lynsey's pup is fricking AWESOME. I can't wait till he grows up and Lynsey, with all her 90 lbs (with wet clothes:-D ) goes on the field with him. 
It's gonna be impressive!


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Lynsey Fuegner said:


> I taught it very similarly to Steven...not only did I step into place when the pup sat, but I also tried to watch the moment that he started sitting I would quickly maneuver so that we both ended up stopping our movement into position at the same time. I varied where I stood when doing this and started a lot with the pup in front of me...as he moved towards me I would step towards him, turning my body so that we ended up in correct position. Mauser is only about 14 weeks old and after marking this process a few times I've got the little guy leaping into heel position and I never had to lure him.



I would love to see this. The intermediate part of this progression when both you and the dog are moving towards each other....



> Jennifer, if you've already taught the go round finish with the "heel" command, change the command to teach the flip. That wya you can use both. I had to do that with a competition dog I had some yrs back. I initially taught the flip finish with some heavy handed methods and the dog would lean in anticipation of my "manuvering" him in place with my knee. I taught the go round with a different command and the dog had to listen to know which one I was going to give him. It stopped the anticipation.
> BTW, Lynsey's pup is fricking AWESOME. I can't wait till he grows up and Lynsey, with all her 90 lbs (with wet clothes ) goes on the field with him.
> It's gonna be impressive!.


Thanks Bob, that is my plan to give it a different name and body signal.

I did a little session tonight (5 min). I just stood next to him in a sit and marked a bunch. I experimented with a bunch of little left and right turns, marked for staying with me back to a sit.

Then I tried having him standing in front with the way around me blocked. He offered a few behaviors but then figured to go swing his back end around. Trouble is he is just swinging it half way. 

Not sure if I sould mark and treat this effort trying to shape it until he swings the back end tight.

or..

Lean down and scoot his back end around a few times and mark when he is in the final desired position

or..

I should meet him halfway if I understand what Lyndsay did and eventually I move less and he moves more?

I have not "named" it yet and I am sure even when done it will not be super impressive. But it is the learning for both him and I that will be fun.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"I should meet him halfway if I understand what Lyndsay did and eventually I move less and he moves more?"

That would be my choice. Take a few steps forward, mark and reward when he's in good position.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I did a little session tonight (5 min). I just stood next to him in a sit and marked a bunch. I experimented with a bunch of little left and right turns, marked for staying with me back to a sit.
> 
> Then I tried having him standing in front with the way around me blocked. He offered a few behaviors but then figured to go swing his back end around. Trouble is he is just swinging it half way.
> 
> ...


blocking is alright, but me personally I wouldn't block, it's just one more thing you have to fade out, I just wouldn't reward anything but an attempt at or the nice flip finish. I see a HUGE difference in the performace of the flip finish with Mauser (who was never lured at all) and Jack (who was lured and helped along the way). You did the right thing by rewarding the best he was able to give at this point, the swinging half way, if nothing else it's showing him to keep trying. I wouldn't lean or scoot or do any sort of obvious helping, the dog could see this as a) part of the command, or b)why should he try as hard if you are going to (obviously) help him get to the end result; the dog is always going to take the easiest path, why work harder than he has to? I wish I owned a video camera, I would love to show the meeting half way, you want to be very discreet about it, I let the dog start the movement and I try to time it so that we are both moving at the same time, we slide into position and we both stop together, that way hopefully the dog sees it as he is doing most (if not all) of the moving, and he makes it happen! Once the dog is working with you and you are getting a good heel position most of the time you can begin to expect more and more and only reward the best ones. I agree with Bob about picking another name (the shepherds I trained knew/know "bye" to go around and "fuss" to flip finish and they were very clear) for the flip finish, I however don't put a name of any sort until I have a good looking, almost perfect position and then I start to add the name while the dog is doing the behavior and then right before he does the behavior so he gets an association.

Thanks for the brags Bob, you're totally gonna make me blush!  As big as Mauser keeps getting I'm going to have to get used to a normal size shepherd real quick!


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

I'll see if I can get some vid of mine doing a finish. I think he does it the way that you like. He jumps up so high and is so close that sometimes I have to turn my head a little to keep from getting hit. To be honest I didn't really set out for him to jump so high to flip around, he just does it. I guess it does look cool, I don't know I haven't seen him doing it on film. I give him the command when he is sitted in front of me and he just springs up and flips around to my side.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

I think some of the best "flippers" are the ones that do it naturally...once I showed him that being in heel position was where the rewards are, Mauser started leaping into it all his own. My older shepherd Fenris was the same way (though I taught him a bit differently) he is such an enthusiastic jumper that I had to go to the ER and get three stitches in my lip once because of one of his finishes...


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Fenris is a tall dog. He dind't have to jump much to smack YOU in the face! Snicker, snicker!
Lynsey mugged a Ken doll to get her bite pants. \\/ 
I should be nice! She's mean! 8-[ 8-[


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Lexus does the flip too. Jay and I will get together and see if we can get some video of the two doing what I've called the military flip finish.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I just watched David and Luigi's flip finish in the ob video Kadi posted. Nice.

I have trained it with my dog that was first taught the round the back. It took about 4 short sessions to get it to be pretty good. It will never be jump around in the air or super impressive, but now I know how to teach it, and will have it for the "next dog".

I would post some video, but I am in my PJ's already...another time.

Since I taught it with some intensive sessions focusing just on the flip with ample rewards..my front is now ruined as he is trying to shape himself into the flip any chance he gets...

Next on the agenda...fix that front! 

Thanks for the advice and help.O


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Haha! I just taught the front yesterday. I tried to get video of her flip tonight and it was mediocre at best. The front is pretty... :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2008)

> Next on the agenda...fix that front!


I just learned a nifty trick from the Bernhard seminar; I wish I knew of it a long time ago. I'll see if I can film it later today.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Steven Lepic said:


> I just learned a nifty trick from the Bernhard seminar; I wish I knew of it a long time ago. I'll see if I can film it later today.



Thanking you in advance Steven!


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Well..here it is in all its mediocrity. Hoping once I put it into the routine with a toy it may get a bit more "snappy". I have to do my ob routine with and without voice as well so that shoulder check will be the body signal, though it won't have to be so big.

Sorry about the poor quality footage and the "butt shot" as my husband so elequantly put it in the audio

http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=Copyofflipfinish.flv

Now if Steven would post his new "front" tips...I am gonna work on that for a bit.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Excellent worK!
Definately no apology necessary for the butt shot. :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

very nice Jennifer! the only thing I can critique 8-[ (and this is totally constructive, it stands out because I get yelled at about it all the time) really has nothing to do with the finish itself...we do marker training (click or the word "yes") I can only assume, as you were saying yes as you were rewarding, that you marker train as well...when the dog does the behavior, you want to be sure that you mark the behavior, pause and then reward...otherwise the dog is merely watching you reach for the reward and the mark gets lost in translation so to speak...anyway; it's nitpicky and I really don't want to be a bother, like I said I get yelled at about it all the time so it stands out in my mind. The behavior itself though with the flip looks awesome!


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Nice work, Jennifer - Well Done!\\/


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

My friend Ulf, is a great trainer and his Malinois bitch Floh does one of the best flip finishes I've seen.

Click on this link and press play on the video screen. The flip from Floh is just after 2:08 on the film.

Enjoy; \\/ \\/ \\/ \\/ 

http://www.k9ulf.com/


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2008)

Bernhard was saying to splay your legs deep and wide just before he gets to you. You want him to see the picture of you standing there as you normally would (in a schutzhund trial), but in the midst of training you want to make it easy for him to be close and straight. Specifically, You want to make it clear to the dog which part of his body is supposed to touch your body.

If you want his chin to touch your belt, you gotta make it easy, without your feet and knees getting in his way (my problem). 

That, and the front leg keeps him straight and funnels him into the center. Earlier in training I would have kept my left leg out, because that's the side to which which he'd go crooked (my other problem). 

These things would have sped up the initial process for me.

Funneling: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v15/keinhaar/?action=view&current=DSCN3138.flv

Approaching correctness: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v15/keinhaar/?action=view&current=DSCN3139.flv


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Steven..thank you so much for taking the time to share that with me. I really appreciate it.

I am so pissed at myself and frustrated I had to stop a training session today so I did not kick my dog:evil: 

I knew my fronts were getting messed up and I decided to teach that friken flip anyways.

Now if I say "come" the dog comes and sits more crooked than ever anticipating that flip... a leg out is no match for his desire to spin after I worked it four sessions in a row.

I could not find a front worth rewarding tonight without putting him in a sitstay and me walking into the correct position or having him up against something and he was still trying to flip.

For 2.5 years I took a straight front for granted (it was never really tight close to me like in sport but it was straight), now I am going to a course next week and I will say "come" and the dog will for sure sit crooked as sin, I will be lucky if he doesn't auto flip on me. 

I know I can sort this out eventually, just venting and so frustrated I could spit.

I think I started a crooked front thread earlier...I ought to go back to it. I need a new plan and some patience!


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Lynsey Fuegner said:


> very nice Jennifer! the only thing I can critique 8-[ (and this is totally constructive, it stands out because I get yelled at about it all the time) really has nothing to do with the finish itself...we do marker training (click or the word "yes") I can only assume, as you were saying yes as you were rewarding, that you marker train as well...when the dog does the behavior, you want to be sure that you mark the behavior, pause and then reward...otherwise the dog is merely watching you reach for the reward and the mark gets lost in translation so to speak...anyway; it's nitpicky and I really don't want to be a bother, like I said I get yelled at about it all the time so it stands out in my mind. The behavior itself though with the flip looks awesome!


Thanks for the tip Lynsey. Guilty as charged. I am self taught with no access to ob trainers of any kind. Tips like yours are always welcome. I taught it with a clicker first and I think I was still rewarding too quick, but was even worse with my slow "yes" and quick treat.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Jennifer: Have you tried quickly backing up as he comes in to you?


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

susan tuck said:


> Jennifer: Have you tried quickly backing up as he comes in to you?


Oh yes, he quickly comes in towards me and sits at a nasty angle :evil: If I wait anytime at all he starts flipping to a heel, if I block him he looks confused and starts to whine in frustration , then offers some completely unrelated behaviors.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I was suggesting the backing up not for speed but because if you are backing up it is easier to reach down & take his collar in both hands as you are backing up to help him/correct him into postion, (not crooked) and also because if you are backing up it would be harder for him to flip. If you bring him in front and he is sitting, then he starts to scootch his body crooked you can quickly use your leg and foot to firmly bump him back.

If it were me I would probably just not do any fronts or flips for a couple of days. Then I would start working on fronts to get him back where he was.

The only other thing is every dog has a different temperment, so what works for my dog might not be appropriate for every dog. That said, my dog would be corrected for the whining and any other added things he was doing.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I am not going to work anymore flips or fronts specifically before my dog course next week.

You are correct that pressure is not usefull for this dog's temperment. I did try pulling him in by the collar and putting my foot out to stop the crookedness but it no worky. He just wants to back up and try harder to get into the position he thinks is right.

He is clearly confused and I have clearly confused him. He is soft and I can shut him down with a correction that he does not understand. THAT IS BAD and much harder to undo than what I am dealing with now. I did it once while trying to train the hold...set me WAY back.

His whining and offering of behaviors was him trying to figure it out and being frustrated, not bratty IMHO. It was game over at that point. I asked him to do something I knew he could do, praised him and then walked away spitting mad inside. 

I can get nowhere fast ob training when if I try to work when mad/frustrated. Better for me to start over later.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

You are really tuned in to your dog. Kudos to you for that. Many expect the dog to conform regardless of personality. I think doing it your way, which is a combination of methods, has proven to be superior than blindly following any one method or philosophy.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

everyone used to make fun of me in my club because my young male used to come in so close, but he was also pretty straight...the way I always worked on it was out of context of obedience at first, I just built an appreciation on the dogs part of the correct position...I started with a very young puppy sitting directly in front of me until I got him nearly chest to chest with me, I'd look at him and feed in a line from my mouth to his. Then as he got too tall for me to do that I would use a chair in my kitchen, I would sit/perch on the very edge of it close to the dog and sort of lean my upper body back slightly and have my legs in a "v" so that the dog had to come between them, if he got too wide or crooked I could always tighten my legs and make a sort of "lane" to encourage him to be straight. I would encourage the puppy to come and (just like when I was on the floor with him) I would feed as he was sitting, chest against me and reaching his neck upwards, in a line from my face to his. I found that this really got the dog pushing towards and coming in straight. As he became more comfortable I would begin to put the word on it in this position and I would begin to stand up and expect the same position. It's sort of a drawn out way of doing things, but I found that it really sets the dog up for a success and in doing sohe learns exactly what you want...that way when you are further in the training and he gives the wrong behavior you can mark it with a non-reward marker and he looses the chance for a reward. As I said above, it's a little different and a bit more work, but I've had some success with it


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

You have come up with a creative approach that works. Many different schools of thought and ways to train. You have to do what works for you and your dog. Me personally I don't do much with puppies as far as obedience is concerned. It's easier for me to wait until they can handle some pressure, and work in drive.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

susan tuck said:


> You have come up with a creative approach that works. Many different schools of thought and ways to train. You have to do what works for you and your dog. Me personally I don't do much with puppies as far as obedience is concerned. It's easier for me to wait until they can handle some pressure, and work in drive.


Train motivational, in drive! No pressure necessary. :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :wink:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I use a combination of methods.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

And they do work! As you say, You have to do what works for you and the dog.
As much as I'm enjoying how we do things at this club you'll never hear me say it the only way. :wink:


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Open minds are important. 
I do think sometimes the really old methods have been villianized (is that even a word) and exagerated by people who maybe were not around to see it but heard horror stories. Yes, of course some of what was done was overly harsh and not neccessary but not all of it. We loved our dogs back then too.

Dog training these days is a lot easier, and more fun for both the dogs and the humans, but it wasn't all torture chambers and water boarding in the old days!!!!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

100% in agreement! Good training with ANY method is an art. 
The "newer" methods will produce just as many good/bad dogs/trainers as the "older" ways. It's all about doing one or the other (or both) correctly.


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

I agree, I know the way I do things is not the only way...I just know what works for me and have no problem sharing in case it may work for someone else as well  I will never claim to be "right" or using "the only way"


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sharing is a big part of "good sportsmanship". Good for you for being generous and sharing your methods.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I really appreciate ALL the imput and the sharing. It is nice that people will take the time to give me some tips that have helped them in the past. 

No ob specific training for a bit for us. Going away to a course for a week starting Sunday.


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## Sharon Adams (Nov 6, 2007)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Now if I say "come" the dog comes and sits more crooked than ever anticipating that flip... a leg out is no match for his desire to spin after I worked it four sessions in a row.!


I am having the same problem here, so I stopped the flip and am back to 'come' only for the next week or so. When I put her against a wall, she still did the flip and ended up in front of me, half cocked between the wall aand me, sitting sideways after 'flippping' thru the air. When I put my leg out, she 'flipped' over it.:-o


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## Catalina Valencia (Feb 20, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Oh yes, he quickly comes in towards me and sits at a nasty angle :evil: If I wait anytime at all he starts flipping to a heel, if I block him he looks confused and starts to whine in frustration , then offers some completely unrelated behaviors.


What I've done in those situations is to restart asking the come at a short distance, if the dog is croocked I sdo a little stapback and ask again until it's perfect. When the problem isthe flip sideways I, as soon as the dog is in front of me to ask for a "watch me" and to praise verbally for a few seconds, so the dog has no need to try new behaviours to get the rewards but learn to sit in front and wait.

This is how I'm starting to teach the flip. This is the second sesion on a 4mo pup, so do ask for nothing but perfection and I still help her a lot with my body, but at this rate I'm more interested in speed than precision (not that I'm an expert either).


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

For some reason I can't click those photobucket vids ??


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## Lynsey Fuegner (Apr 11, 2007)

Y'all can shoot me when you're sick of my few cents  but I am really on this marking behaviors kick and loving what I am seeing. I agree with helping the dog figure out what is expected, and like Catalina said, I try to reward inly perfection, at least in the end resullt, to avoid any confusion with the dog...One of the big things that I do differently that Catalina is I try not to get the dog to fix a crooked front, I'm not saying I allow it either...what I try to do is this:
When teaching the dog/pup I try to make sure the dog has a success, if this means that I have to step back a bit as they come in to assure success so be it! I want to encourage the best results, but with as little obvious body help as possible (less that I have to wean out later)
Once a dog has learned and has shown me he understands the front position, any crooked or incorect behaviors will recieve a non-reward marker of some sort and a blowing off of the behavior. I was told by a friend (and it really makes so much sense to me!) that when our dog does something lacking perfection and from that point we help the dog or make the dog fix it then reward, the dog takes all of the fixing and adjusting as part of the exercise...So instead of coming and sitting straight reward, the dog now views the exercise as coming, a bit crooked, handler backs up, coming a bit more, attempting to sit from, back up, finally sitting front...etc. Unintentionally we created a flawed behavior chain.

As I've said before, this is just what I do, it is in no way right, better or anything else


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

When my dog sits crooked I correct him into position. After one or two well-timed corrections, he knows he is to sit straight.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

I dont know if this has been said, and I am by no means any kind of expert. I like to just think it out and try things, but what has worked for me on the flip.

Dog is sitting in front of me (like in a recall) I have food in one hand, step into the dog w/ right foot, dog will move butt up a bit and then I move forward into position at the same time I am guiding them into the proper position w/ the food as they are looking up..........they must understand where foos is first. They do not get the food until the position is correct....EVER, maybe my encouraging word but no physical reward. First few times they get in position BIG PRAISE. Over time, they understand and they move quicker into position and I move less. Usually only take a few attempts before they get the idea. 

t


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

cant find an edit...........but the food is in your left hand just about snout while you step forward with your right foot.

t


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

more edit...........and the hand with the food moves in a circular motion counter clockwise. kinda how the dog would spin.


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