# Owner Training in Canada,QC?



## Jesse Fox (Jan 25, 2011)

My psychiatrist and I both believe I would benefit from a PSD (_psychiatric service dog_). I've done my research but have no idea how to even go about this in Quebec (my psychiatrist had no idea they existed before I told him about it, so he doesn't really know much either). I do not want to apply for a program dog since my dog is doing a great job with tasks so far and I really don't want another dog at this time. I know in ontairio it is possible to owner train as long as you have a professional trainer to follow you and certify you. But I have no idea how this works in QC, nor if there are trainers in my area (I would be willing to travel quite a bit for weekly sessions). 

Any information would be greatly appreciated!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Hi Jesse, I've gone through this here in Ontario it should be the same in Quebec. You should start to keep a training log if you haven't done so already. 

Generally once you have a CGC as a start and a certified trainer to sign off on your dog for the tasks you are asking for it. Then a service dog vest on your dog and a wallet identification card, no one will ask for any further identification if they do it is against the law. 

Though all local laws are in affect, so if your dog bites someone or creates a disturbance in a public or place of business you are still responsible. 

The only time you may be questioned is flying. All airlines are governed by the Air Carriers Access Act. If you intend to fly I suggest you get a letter from your physician stating why you require a service dog. 

Just because you have a service dog vest and someone who has signed off it is still not a good idea to abuse the system though. For instance if you need the dog to brace you on stairs and you bring your spouse and the dog with you to the opera then the dog freaks out over the noise. You need to ask yourself if bringing the dog was such a good idea since your spouse could have helped you on the stairs and the dog is redundant.


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

Get in touch with these people. They should be able to give you the info you need.
http://www.mira.ca/en/
Good luck,
Gerald


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Jesse Fox said:


> My psychiatrist and I both believe I would benefit from a PSD (_psychiatric service dog_). I've done my research but have no idea how to even go about this in Quebec (my psychiatrist had no idea they existed before I told him about it, so he doesn't really know much either).


I have a question and I'm not trying to be rude.

If your psych never heard about them before ,then you told him about them and now he thinks you need one...ever consider he might just be messin with you ??


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I supply and train certified pseudo psyco dogs. How much you willing to spend? And is this just a scam to take your dog to the movies. I have take to the movies trained dogs as well but they cost more.


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## Jesse Fox (Jan 25, 2011)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I have a question and I'm not trying to be rude.
> 
> If your psych never heard about them before ,then you told him about them and now he thinks you need one...ever consider he might just be messin with you ? ?


My physh is far to mature and serious to "mess" with me, he is one of the tops of his department and didn't get there by being an idiot. I told him about the idea, gave him a large pile of documents and he rather seemed to think it was a good idea and that I would benefit from it, he never said I "needed" one. I do not want to spill out my problems to random people I don't know on the internet, but there are a lot of things that would allow me to find a certain independence with a service dog. I'm just doing research at the moment nothing is certain. Just exploring possibilities and finding out what there is to know. I do not want to wander around with an illegal or "fake" service dog.

As for him not knowing, the generalization of Quebec population doesn't know that there are service dogs that aren't for guiding. I'm sorry if I sound snappy, but you have no idea how many times I have been jumped on before. 



Gerald Guay said:


> Get in touch with these people. They should be able to give you the info you need.
> http://www.mira.ca/en/
> Good luck,
> Gerald


Thank you Gerald, I will have to mail them about it. Don't they only train dogs for the blind though?



Geoff Empey said:


> Hi Jesse, I've gone through this here in Ontario it should be the same in Quebec. You should start to keep a training log if you haven't done so already.
> 
> Generally once you have a CGC as a start and a certified trainer to sign off on your dog for the tasks you are asking for it. Then a service dog vest on your dog and a wallet identification card, no one will ask for any further identification if they do it is against the law.
> 
> ...


I believe dogs have to be certified in canada (though perhaps not longer in Ontario) to have public access? I really want to make sure, because as mentioned above, I do not want to do anything illegal. There aren't many trainers in the area (and the few I know are full), but I'm keeping up the search. I can't do anything till end of march anyways since I'm stationed at a camp (with my dog of course) up in northern Quebec till then. 

Also do I need a certified service dog trainer? Or any "normal" certified trainers will do? We haven't taken the CGC yet since Karma isn't ready for the separation part of it and he is good at ignoring most people but when he sees kids with a ball or other dogs he has an uncontrollable need to play with them. He is only 10 months old though, so I'm assuming it's normal. We are working on it however!

Flying is something that makes me ask as well since a site (can't remember which) mentioned something about proof of certification from a recognized service dog institution. Luckily I really don't fly that much, but never know if the need should arise. &I hadn't though of a training log, but I will start keeping one as of now.

&I'm aware of that part. I would never bring my dog if it wasn't crucial that I need him, or if I could be accompanied by my "security person" who is able to recognize things before or while they are happening and able to lead me outside and/or snap me out of it. 

Thank you for your advice everyone  Every bit helps!


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## Jesse Fox (Jan 25, 2011)

*Also (to anyone who might have an issue), just so it's clear Karma will not be ready for service work anytime soon. Sure he knows a few tasks very well but the ones I really need are far from perfect. And he is only reliable at home with no distractions as of yet. He is only 10 months old and I don't plan to certify him till he's 100% reliable. I hear most dogs take 18-24+ months to be fully trained, and I don't expect him to be an exception. As of right now I'm mainly looking for a trainer to help me out with the training process because I have no idea how to train most of the tasks I will need him to know on my own. * Just wanted to get that out there.



Chris McDonald said:


> I supply and train certified pseudo psyco dogs. How much you willing to spend? And is this just a scam to take your dog to the movies. I have take to the movies trained dogs as well but they cost more.



No this is not a scam to get into the movies with my dog. I never go to movies anyways. Why do people always assume this? I will not be taking my dog anywhere that I will not /need/ his assistance. I will also be willing to provide doctors notes and whatnot.

&I'm not sure I understood all your post, but I am looking to train my own dog, not get another one. As far as spending, I'll pay what I have to, provided it is reasonable.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

So I see your into SARs, Eh


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## Jesse Fox (Jan 25, 2011)

Chris McDonald said:


> So I see your into SARs, Eh


SARs? I'm not familiar with that abbreviation in relation to service dogs.
Or SARs as in Search and Rescue/Tracking? I would love to do that with Karma, he's got the energy and can search for hours, he loves using his nose too. It would be a fun weekly activity for him. And a nice mental challenge as well!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Right search and rescue. It says your “training” in search and rescue. Are you very experienced in training dogs for it?


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## Rina Rivamonte (Jan 11, 2011)

Geoff - Are the doctors over there actually allowed to say why someone needs a psych dog? Over here it would constitute under doctor/patient confidentiality. All the doctor needs to say is that the person needs one, they can't say why.


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## Jesse Fox (Jan 25, 2011)

Chris McDonald said:


> Right search and rescue. It says your “training” in search and rescue. Are you very experienced in training dogs for it?


Hmm, when I signed up I thought it meant what my dog was training in. I've never trained in it till Karma, so no I don't have much experience at all. We are both learning, but this is besides the point of my forum topic. If you'd like to talk about anything not related to this topic please message me


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

The Mira organization also trains "service" dogs and information from them could be helpful. 
Gerald


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Rina Rivamonte said:


> Geoff - Are the doctors over there actually allowed to say why someone needs a psych dog? Over here it would constitute under doctor/patient confidentiality. All the doctor needs to say is that the person needs one, they can't say why.


Yes you are right .. it is the same. It is up to the end user if he/she wants to disclose further info. The laws here are still very grey and vary widely from province to province, as well business owners and even government agencies do not have the correct information or be expected to know as it is so new. So again it is up to the end user to educate.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Gerald Guay said:


> The Mira organization also trains "service" dogs and information from them could be helpful.



The problem with organizations like MIRA is they do not certify 'owner' trained dogs. They only want to obtain grants and donations to certify and train themselves. I went through the same song and dance with the organizations here in Ontario. I wouldn't expect much help from them with an owner trained service dog no matter how good it was, it is a big liability for an organization like that.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

What is a psychiatric service dog and what would be his duties? Never heard of this.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Marta Haus said:


> What is a psychiatric service dog and what would be his duties? Never heard of this.


I think the main function would be to lick his nut.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Whos nut? And do you need peanut butter?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ma n I got a funny PM. All the funny stuff has to go PM or else WAM lock down.


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## Maria Jeffrey (Dec 11, 2010)

I too would be interested to know what the duties of this type of service dog would be. I've not heard of it either.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Maria Jeffrey said:


> I too would be interested to know what the duties of this type of service dog would be. I've not heard of it either.


Google is a wonderful thing .. :-k

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatric_service_dog


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> Google is a wonderful thing .. :-k
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatric_service_dog


I'm still not getting it. A specially trained dog to remind you to take your medications on time? Isn't that what an alarm clock is for? I understand that having a dog by your side can be morally or mentally uplifting and a positive influence on some one dealing with some sort of a mental/emotional/psychological trauma, but I'm honestly having issues grasping the concept of this being a legitimate assistance dog. 

Hence I would like to know, what would be the specific tasks a dog like this would be trained for? So far I see a companion dog with a special access pass. Not trying to be mean or judgemental, but I am having issues seeing the legitimacy of this. Does this mean that if I had an abusive childhood for example, I can go see a Dr, train my dog to be a psych service dog, and I can now bring him with me any where a guide dog would be allowed to lend me moral support? Does this mean that a woman who survived an abusive relationship, maybe had a near death experience, can go out and get a PPD dog, then have it certified as psych dog, and bring it with her every where?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Marta Haus said:


> Does this mean that a woman who survived an abusive relationship, maybe had a near death experience, can go out and get a PPD dog, then have it certified as psych dog, and bring it with her every where?


Yes ... 

Heck if people can bring Service Pigs on planes why not? Is it right though? Some people can use it some people abuse it ..


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Interesting.

Would it be ethical to train a service pig to pass you bacon?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Marta Haus said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Would it be ethical to train a service pig to pass you bacon?


It's a true story about the service pig .. I'm not kidding I wish I was ..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94861&page=1

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UBT/is_11_15/ai_71627521/


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## Jesse Fox (Jan 25, 2011)

PSDs can be trained for lots of things. Interrupting OCD behaviours for example. Lots of people with OCD auto-mutilate without noticing, dogs can prevent it by snapping the owner out of it so they don't end up hurting themselves. They can also be trained to lead their owner out of buildings when they start to disassociate or are too overwhelmed. Some ever recognize hallucinations/panic attacks and are trained to react accordingly. A dog is not considered a Service dog if it is only for moral support. 

There are plenty of tasks for them to do. Moral support is a benefit, but not a "task".

Also, Geoff, I believe it is mentioned somewhere that the sole task of "physically protecting" the owner does not count as a "task". I'm not sure though. 
There are PSTD dogs for this.


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