# Raising a puppy to NOT learn other dogs habits??



## Joshua McGrotty (Apr 15, 2013)

I have a 17 month old GSD male (from showlines). First dog I got. He's very goofy / happy go lucky, in fact a bit too much for my liking. As I lived in an apartment, I had to use a dog walker during the day (as I couldn't kennel him in the garden) so he's grown up being used to running around with other dogs 2-3 days a week and has picked up a lot of habits from the dog walker that I don't like. Nothing is necessarily bad, just problems I don't want him to pass on to another potential dog. 

He seeks out the company of other dogs too much for my liking, see's every stranger as a source of excitement (since there were 3 or 4 different employees from the dog walker coming in and taking him out, they'd have him out with various other dog walkers who they walked with at the same time, so he seen everyone as a source of excitement) and is generally just a very exciteable dog.

I'm thinking of getting another pup (female, from working lines) but don't want her to pick up these problems. I'm building a kennel in the backyard of my new place, so I was planning on housing both of them out there during the day (in separate kennels, either built together or at separate areas of the garden to keep them from socialising too much). 

I will be controlling every interaction this puppy has with people, strangers, dogs etc. We won't need any help from a walker since we have the outdoor kennels now. I know how I'm going to go about socialising etc. 

My biggest worry is that the pup picks up problems and 'personality traits' from my existing dog that I really don't want to happen. I want a dog that's a bit more serious, my current one isn't at all. This may just be his personality, it may be the way he's turned out because of being out so often with the dog walker and the situations he's been put in.

How do I go about this? Is it a case of them both living two separate lives? Do I still walk them together or walk them separately? Are they both allowed to be out of their crates, in the living room with us? How often do they get play time together in the garden, if any? 

Any help would be much appreciated. 
I've actually considered taking the time to look for a home that might be more suitable for my current GSD. I'm starting to think maybe his personality would suit someone who can take him off lead walks with other dogs on a daily basis where he'd maybe enjoy his life a bit more, instead of just coming to the field with me, doing some obedience, bite work etc. It's not a major consideration just now but something I have thought about.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

training will help. with both dogs


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That starts from the beginning with a pup. 
The barn door is closed with your particular dog but I keep any new pup in the house and limit their time with the older dogs. 
This goes on for the first 7-8 months before the pup is then put outside for good.
My two, intact male GSDs are together 24/7. One is 10 1/2 and the other is 6+. 
They rarely interact, don't play together, eat 5-6 ft apart, etc.
I train outside my (small) yard and when I bring one in to get the other one out I want the one inside to come up to me first. That shows me the social structure of my "pack". 
Doing this I've never had a pup make any close bond with an existing dog over me.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

1. i think you need to be more specific of what a "serious dog" means to you
2. weren't you looking for KNPV training, detection work, etc ? what happened to those plans ?
3. i see nothing wrong with a dog being social; with other people or other dogs. we have a few mwd's that are "social" but it doesn't prevent them from being serious when they need to be

-IF- you are saying the dog cares more about others than you, don't blame it on dog walkers or other dogs....get a better bond with your dog(s)

4. you can set the rules for a pack of dogs without having to always isolate each one and work with them separately

not trying to be harsh or critical ... take it as advice and maybe a way to look at the situation differently 
- when i have a problem i try and blame myself first an the dog later 

have you already taken Joby's advice ??


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## Joshua McGrotty (Apr 15, 2013)

rick smith said:


> 1. i think you need to be more specific of what a "serious dog" means to you
> 2. weren't you looking for KNPV training, detection work, etc ? what happened to those plans ?
> 3. i see nothing wrong with a dog being social; with other people or other dogs. we have a few mwd's that are "social" but it doesn't prevent them from being serious when they need to be
> 
> ...


By serious I just mean more of the 'working' temperament. Naturally aloof with strangers etc. I want it to be neutral to pretty much everything (obviously with the correct socialisation). 

I've been back at my local IPO club and have some detection dvd's from Leerburg, I intend to just train detection stuff by myself. Nothing serious. KNPV, after some research, wouldn't really work for me at this stage. I don't have the money to spend $500 just on the boat trip across with my dog, before I even look at hotels, food etc. I'd only be able to do this once every few months. I just thought is it really worth going over and doing the training then I can't do any form of training back home as nobody here trains in KNPV or even with bite suits. 

Not saying the dog cares more about others. He's very engaged with me, no problems there. He's just overly friendly with others when he gets the chance.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

tx for clarifying the "serious" part (it's not what i was imagining)

re: "Naturally aloof with strangers etc. I want it to be neutral to pretty much everything"

since you said you were looking for a pup .... 
- i could understand why you might want those traits, but i think it is nearly impossible to find that in a pup from a genetics standpoint, and i've seen very few dogs i would truly consider aloof, and they were all mature dogs :-D

a good pup to me should have tons of curiosity about everything around it and tons of energy. i would want it highly reactive but recover and settle just as quickly. I could also mention all the other stuff that people test for when looking at a pup to measure its drives, but that's a long list and always gets debated as to whether it's necessary 

but in the same breath, I totally believe you can teach this type of pup to regard you as the center of its universe
- a good bond (trust and respect) is all it takes

so i guess i'm saying i still don't understand what the problems are with the gsd, but hope it doesn't repeat in your next pup
- best of luck in finding what you want


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

i suppose that i have no business saying what i'm about to say: my own dog has problems being within 8 yards of other dogs and has treated two different neighbor's dogs like remarkably lifelike chew toys...we have yet to attend club training of any sort because of her incendiary response to unknown dogs and all her training is done on my own. we are very far away from my real goals of having her do protection training. does this make me entertain thoughts of giving up on her? never.
i feel a self-serving degree of shock that you are offering up the option of getting rid of a dog who acts exactly the way it was raised to act, one who learned to do so on your watch, one who is friendly and outgoing and lovey-dovey and from the very lineage designed to achieve this sociably acceptable outlook. i mean, you purchased this dog (?) knowing it was bred to be pretty and be pleasant, and now it is doing those things because no one ever suggested otherwise and you are disappointed in what you have? that seems very unfair.
maybe it would be better for the dog to be re-homed with a family or somebody who has no other expectations, someone with other dogs or who wishes to take the dog everywhere they go and have it be pettable, etc, just as you hint at. after all, lots of experts here have said that, if you are displeased with the dog you have, get another one, and i bet a chunk of that reasoning is due to how much of your inexplicable disappointment will ripple down the leash and be palpable for your male dog. none the less, i feel--and i am nobody, so of course it doesn't matter one red cent what i feel, i'm just saying...--that you should at least acknowledge that you dug the trench your pup followed and when he came to the finish of it you decided it had made him inferior. maybe that's something to consider carefully before taking on a new blank slate?


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Id disagree with the thought that a dog who doesn't show aloof behavior to strangers in turn cannot be a good protection sport dog. There are tons of examples that disprove that. But if that is something that you yourself prefer in a dog thats different. I personally dont care for that kind of dog for my personal dog. With that aloofness can sometimes come some other undesirable goodies ,,, best of luck with your situation


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> That starts from the beginning with a pup.
> The barn door is closed with your particular dog but I keep any new pup in the house and limit their time with the older dogs.
> This goes on for the first 7-8 months before the pup is then put outside for good.
> My two, intact male GSDs are together 24/7. One is 10 1/2 and the other is 6+.
> ...


I agree, 100%.

You probably know a major factor with regards to the dogs personality is what the dogs genes bring to the table with regards to his nerve, etc.. I don't believe so much in nature vs nurture as I do nature AND nurture. Some GSDs are very gregarious, but also make excellent sport and/or protection dogs, some GSDs are very aloof and make crappy sport and/or protection dogs, and obviously the converse is also true.


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald (May 23, 2014)

Seems to me your dog is a dorky teenager behaving as hes been taught and expected by multiple dog walkers. 17 months doesn't strike me as too old to show there are different expectations now the dog walkers won't be needing to do it their way.

Personaly, I'd wait on a new pup till this dog has matured and has a chance to show how he copes with your expectations alone.

Make it fun so he sees you as better value than other dogs and don't let his behaviour spoil your attitude to him. Take your time and show him a better way.

If you do get another dog, you be the one who says whats acceptable and intervene when you have to. I'd give him a chance, he realy hasn't had that yet.JMHO


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i suppose that i have no business saying what i'm about to say: my own dog has problems being within 8 yards of other dogs and has treated two different neighbor's dogs like remarkably lifelike chew toys...we have yet to attend club training of any sort because of her incendiary response to unknown dogs and all her training is done on my own. we are very far away from my real goals of having her do protection training. does this make me entertain thoughts of giving up on her? never.
> i feel a self-serving degree of shock that you are offering up the option of getting rid of a dog who acts exactly the way it was raised to act, one who learned to do so on your watch, one who is friendly and outgoing and lovey-dovey and from the very lineage designed to achieve this sociably acceptable outlook. i mean, you purchased this dog (?) knowing it was bred to be pretty and be pleasant, and now it is doing those things because no one ever suggested otherwise and you are disappointed in what you have? that seems very unfair.
> maybe it would be better for the dog to be re-homed with a family or somebody who has no other expectations, someone with other dogs or who wishes to take the dog everywhere they go and have it be pettable, etc, just as you hint at. after all, lots of experts here have said that, if you are displeased with the dog you have, get another one, and i bet a chunk of that reasoning is due to how much of your inexplicable disappointment will ripple down the leash and be palpable for your male dog. none the less, i feel--and i am nobody, so of course it doesn't matter one red cent what i feel, i'm just saying...--that you should at least acknowledge that you dug the trench your pup followed and when he came to the finish of it you decided it had made him inferior. maybe that's something to consider carefully before taking on a new blank slate?


but you are making the assumption the dog would go to a bad home,,,, the dog may wind up in a better place,,,,, I washed two dogs recently ...they went to great pet homes .. I did it because they weren't capable of what was going to be expected of them. I assure you the families they wound up with will give them a better life than I could. dog aggression can be quite the task ... good luck with that one.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

Brian Anderson said:


> but you are making the assumption the dog would go to a bad home,,,, the dog may wind up in a better place,,,,, I washed two dogs recently ...they went to great pet homes .. I did it because they weren't capable of what was going to be expected of them. I assure you the families they wound up with will give them a better life than I could. dog aggression can be quite the task ... good luck with that one.


i didn't mean to imply that a family home/second home would be of lesser quality because it is a second home--i didn't/don't feel that way at all, and if that was the cast of my statement then i failed to express what i meant accurately. i mean, how many dogs adopted from shelters go to their new and improved surroundings having never lived so well before in their lives? i hope all of them. i just meant that, for a working dog, going to a working home is the most fulfilling (?) and that if his dog is exhibiting what he considers to be just pet characteristics, and he feels it's not worth his time to put in the work to confirm those suspicions, then he probably should find the dog a more suitable place to live. not an inferior place but one that fits the dog, which would actually be much better. dogs know when you are disappointed in them and it would be wrong to keep that dog on and just devalue him for being what he has learned to be.
for my part, i am no longer even discouraged by how much my dog reacts to other dogs--i am resigned to my fate of having to try and teach her to be otherwise and we are taking up herding, where she is the only dog on the field at the time and the trainer is well acquainted with dog-aggressive dogs because she had to work hard on her own dog with that very issue. does it suck to have this monstrous impediment? oh yes, it surely does. but i really love this dog and we are together for the long haul.
that's all i meant


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i didn't mean to imply that a family home/second home would be of lesser quality because it is a second home--i didn't/don't feel that way at all, and if that was the cast of my statement then i failed to express what i meant accurately. i mean, how many dogs adopted from shelters go to their new and improved surroundings having never lived so well before in their lives? i hope all of them. i just meant that, for a working dog, going to a working home is the most fulfilling (?) and that if his dog is exhibiting what he considers to be just pet characteristics, and he feels it's not worth his time to put in the work to confirm those suspicions, then he probably should find the dog a more suitable place to live. not an inferior place but one that fits the dog, which would actually be much better. dogs know when you are disappointed in them and it would be wrong to keep that dog on and just devalue him for being what he has learned to be.
> for my part, i am no longer even discouraged by how much my dog reacts to other dogs--i am resigned to my fate of having to try and teach her to be otherwise and we are taking up herding, where she is the only dog on the field at the time and the trainer is well acquainted with dog-aggressive dogs because she had to work hard on her own dog with that very issue. does it suck to have this monstrous impediment? oh yes, it surely does. but i really love this dog and we are together for the long haul.
> that's all i meant


Catherine I worked with a lot of dog aggression at one point. I was trying to learn to temper it at minimum. Quite a few I think I was able to quell it superficially. But honestly in my experience its one of those things you are better off "picking your battles" as you are choosing to do. I have never been able to trust a really dog aggressive dog even after having worked with them because they are ticking time bombs...I have seen some people have some pretty impressive results but even at that Id be very watchful of that dog. Best of luck with your training and your commitment to the dog is commendable for sure!


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Can't put 20 ounces in a 12 ounce bottle...
Genetically the animal is and has what it will have. Humans can work with it, but seldom can't beat Mother Nature! [-(


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

The real big thing as per your


> * Raising a puppy to NOT learn other dogs habits??*


Is to keep them separate as much as possible. Especially when you are not there to supervise. i.e do not kennel them together at anytime. As they not only will the younger one learn bad habits from the older dog it will bond with the older dog not with you and your working relationship with both dogs will go to the shitter. 

The young dog needs to be crated anytime you are not interacting with it for the most part for the first year year and a 1/2 of it's life. That means no time alone in the garden etc. You take the dog out to potty, feed it, exercise and train the only other time is in the house tether the dog to you while the other dog is crated or kenneled. That way the dog will bond strongly with you and you can control the new dog's environment.


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