# Last nights Bite Work Video



## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Here's a clip of my dog Mojo working some control and long bite. He's an animal for bite work and it's been very hard to get any control on him during protection. The circle thing is the best way we have found to get some OB going during bite work. His barking was non-stop until we tried this.
Go easy on the helper, he is a rookie and tries hard. He and I work each others dog and know we are not the best, but we are out there training almost every other night.
The control and barking is a tough nut to crack, any ideas would be welcomed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZhCP5bNdTI

Thanks and enjoy!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok, small things to do. The reward bite at the end should not be towards the dog, but away from the dog.

Basically you are doing OB for bites, so cool. Try this. Start about thirty yards from your helper, and heel towards him. If he gets stupid and starts barking, do an about turn ( to the right, same line as you came down) When he is good, do a U turn (left into the dog same line as before) have a goal, that you will get THIS close, with good OB, and quiet, then send the dog. Keep at it until you can walk right up to the helper.


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff's advice is pretty much what we do . We do it in increments . Basically the dog learns that if he's quiet he'll be released . It works way better then corrections for barking . In bitework type situations a correction usually gets most dogs we deal with worked up . The bite for most dogs is the ultimate motivation so most (barring the barking hasn't been allowed to go on for too long) dogs are happy to shut up if that's what it takes .


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

The dog barking doesn't bother me as bad as you letting him get away with no control. This is what I mean. Before the last bite as you were sitting up, you told the dog to sit. You MUST insist that he does what you ask. You even pushed his butt down. Don't do this, he knows what sit means. If he don't sit and stay calm you heel him away from the helper and come back to you position and ask again. Just before you sent him for the bite he was up. You just told him(when you sent him) that he don't have to sit. You are causing this conflict, it's not the dogs fault.

I must commend you though that it is hard to train when you have no one to help see the things that are happening. This forum is a great place to ask your questions. I know you want to do what's best for your dog.

Demand from you dog what you want. Take away the grey areas and he'll know right from wrong ( black and white ).

Go have fun.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ok, small things to do. The reward bite at the end should not be towards the dog, but away from the dog.
> 
> Basically you are doing OB for bites, so cool. Try this. Start about thirty yards from your helper, and heel towards him. If he gets stupid and starts barking, do an about turn ( to the right, same line as you came down) When he is good, do a U turn (left into the dog same line as before) have a goal, that you will get THIS close, with good OB, and quiet, then send the dog. Keep at it until you can walk right up to the helper.


Are you saying the helper shouldn't run toward the dog (courage test, long bite)? I did notice he slows down a bit as he reaches the helper.

I like the walking toward the helper for control. Will give that a go.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jim Nash said:


> Jeff's advice is pretty much what we do . We do it in increments . Basically the dog learns that if he's quiet he'll be released . It works way better then corrections for barking . In bitework type situations a correction usually gets most dogs we deal with worked up . The bite for most dogs is the ultimate motivation so most (barring the barking hasn't been allowed to go on for too long) dogs are happy to shut up if that's what it takes .


I really tried not to give corrections, but we never seemed to get anywhere. However thanks to you guys, I have something else to try.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jerry Lyda said:


> The dog barking doesn't bother me as bad as you letting him get away with no control. This is what I mean. Before the last bite as you were sitting up, you told the dog to sit. You MUST insist that he does what you ask. You even pushed his butt down. Don't do this, he knows what sit means. If he don't sit and stay calm you heel him away from the helper and come back to you position and ask again. Just before you sent him for the bite he was up. You just told him(when you sent him) that he don't have to sit. You are causing this conflict, it's not the dogs fault.
> 
> I must commend you though that it is hard to train when you have no one to help see the things that are happening. This forum is a great place to ask your questions. I know you want to do what's best for your dog.
> 
> ...


The barking drives me nuts, it's so f'in loud! I do see your point on control, he will get no bite until his butt is on the ground!

He has always been a nut for bite work, in the begining we let he go nuts, as I was told that to put OB on him then would squash his drives. However now I believe it's time.

Again thanks for all the good advise!:razz:


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## Jim Nash (Mar 30, 2006)

Ed , 

Jerry does the same thing I do . Same concept . Dog does what's it's told or it's heeled away . Timing is important otherwise the dog takes longer to pick up what you want him to do . Heel him up to the line as soon(right at the bark if possible) turn him around . Soon as he's quiet turn around go back to starting line . Same goes for the sit . As soon as he breaks or fails the sit command turn around and heel away . 

You can do the same thing if he starts bouncing around or creeping once you put him in a sit . If he does either of these immediatly turn him around and heel away .

Basically you are looking for the dog to be in a stable sit (I have mine in a down) and quiet before he is rewarded with the bite . When I start out I reward him very quickly with the bite . As I progress I expect my dog to remain in a stable position and quiet for a longer time before I send him on the bite . 


I've seen some give a verbal and physical corrections once he doesn't do what's expected of him as they turn him around and heel away . I prefer not to do that . It just seems like the physical correction just amps them up more . I mix it up . Sometimes I give a verbal "no" as he disobeys and I turn him to heel away . Sometimes I just turn him around and that's the only correction . All this should be done very calmly . No yelling or quick jerky stuff . That's stuff just seems to get the dogs more unfocussed . 

Just as a reference I'm doing this with around 12 months and up , green dogs in training to possibly be a PSD .


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jeff, after watching the video again I think I now understand what you mean. After the drive and H&B the helper gave a bite but stepped into the dog? Instead should have stepped back away from the dog (prey)?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

There's nothing more to be said than watching you walk I got the idea you were walking on "thin ice" which can be picked up by the dog.

Maybe wrong, but walking confidently and at normal speed with the idea in your head "he's under my control" after all, he's on the lead could help.

I too used to have the dog sit at my side, long leash loose, but to prevent his going before command and after he'd looked up at me, I gave the command to go.

"No" for barking or lunging (plus phys. corr.) "yeees" when he does what you say can also work and keep him calm until he gets the command "go". Why block all the time?

Thumbs up!!


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> There's nothing more to be said than watching you walk I got the idea you were walking on "thin ice" which can be picked up by the dog.
> 
> Maybe wrong, but walking confidently and at normal speed with the idea in your head "he's under my control" after all, he's on the lead could help.
> 
> ...


"Walking on Ice" I can see that now, thank you. That's my walking slowly walk. I understand you point and will work on that.

"Why blocking all the time?" Not sure what you mean by this???

Thanks, Eddie


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Update: Last time out we tried the "Walking toward the helper" It took a few times but I was able to get him to foos for a few steps, then sent him. I think he is getting it.

We also ended with an escape to reduce his stress as suggested.

Thanks for helping us, we need it!


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## Brigita Brinac (Jun 29, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Ok, small things to do. The reward bite at the end should not be towards the dog, but away from the dog.
> 
> Basically you are doing OB for bites, so cool. Try this. Start about thirty yards from your helper, and heel towards him. If he gets stupid and starts barking, do an about turn ( to the right, same line as you came down) When he is good, do a U turn (left into the dog same line as before) have a goal, that you will get THIS close, with good OB, and quiet, then send the dog. Keep at it until you can walk right up to the helper.



Nice advice Jeff.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Edward Egan said:


> "Walking on Ice" I can see that now, thank you. That's my walking slowly walk. I understand you point and will work on that.
> 
> "Why blocking all the time?" Not sure what you mean by this???
> 
> Thanks, Eddie


Maybe I missed your doing it, but praising the dog when he's walking (behaving) as you want - not just correcting when he's wrong. 

I call it "blockieren" in German - not sure "blocking" would be right, however


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Maybe I missed your doing it, but praising the dog when he's walking (behaving) as you want - not just correcting when he's wrong.
> 
> I call it "blockieren" in German - not sure "blocking" would be right, however


I was verbally giving praise, just not loud enough for the camara to pick up.

Thanks for the reply.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Great. Must watch the video again to see if the dog was picking it up too :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I think when you start walking as though you won't need a change of underwear, things will start to "pick up" 

Cheers!!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

As Jeff said, obedience for the bite.
Convince him that he's driving you to give him the helper. Not that your correcting him for wanting to go. 
Quiet, correct foosing gets the bite. Start from a distance and don't try and see how long you can keep him under control or how fast you can get close. Add time and shorten distance slooooowly and separately. Not at the same time 
Every time you get closer, reward with the bite quicker. When he's steady at a given distance, move closer and reward quicker.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

On the long bite, what methods would you use to get him to not slow down apon reaching the decoy?


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

He's a big dog, isn't he?

What's he weigh in at?


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Gary Garner said:


> He's a big dog, isn't he?
> 
> What's he weigh in at?


He's 26" at the whithers and about 85 pounds. Maybe a little on the long side. Looks big because on all that dam hair!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The decoy runs backwards.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The decoy runs backwards.


How about a long line or a bungi and have him drag to the helper?


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The decoy runs backwards.


Thanks, I've seen that done, just concerned about my helper.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Steve Strom said:


> How about a long line or a bungi and have him drag to the helper?


We have done that a lot, dragging me to get too the helper. When we are close like doing the circle thing he blast the helper, not slowing at all.
For what ever reason he does slow down a bit on the long bite. We have only done it a few times, but you can see it in the video.

I'd like him to blast into the sleeve full speed, but on the other hand my helper is even older than me, and I break easy. ;-)


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Try suit work then. Even MORE fun the next day. : )


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