# For Georgia...coming up the leash thread..



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> I had a dog like this and after nearly being put in the hospital twice I got rid of him. Here is one scenario you can analyze all you want. I was in my house with the dog, he was on the floor with a toy. I was picking up stuff around the house, minding my own business, he was eating the toy. I walked by, mind you about 7-8 feet away, he growled at me, lunged, grabbed my arm and would NOT let go. He bit me to the bone and my husband had to choke him UNTIL HE PASSED OUT and pissed himself for him to let go of me. That's how bad his aggression was. That's just one of the times he got me.





georgia estes said:


> He needed a big, strong man to handle him. I was not physically strong enough to get him off of me. He didn't just nip, he had a full grip on me every time and I could not get him off me. I challenge anyone to get a dog like that off of them by themselves when the dog is that serious about killing you. Had my husband not been home, I don't know what would have happened. My husband is 6'3 and 220 and had trouble getting that dog off of me. He was a crazy son of a bitch and I wanted him dead by my own hand. I don't know where he is now. Hopefully stuffed and mounted above someone's fireplace





georgia estes said:


> The first time I brought him out to my new dog training club he broke and muzzle attacked a plain clothed person 100 yards away for no reason. I don't care what anyone says he was f*cking nuts. The person I sold him to did well with him. I won't call him out on here because I don't know if he'd appreciate it but he worked pretty well with him... meaning I dont think he had to go to the hospital lol. I think he did eventually sell him though. The story I heard was the dog was sold, 3 days later the new owner called the previous owner and said come get this damn dog I can't get him out of the kennel.





georgia estes said:


> I am sure there are people on this board with dogs like him that could handle him. After seeing the insides of my arms and legs a few times I realized he just wasn't the right dog for me.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Is the above post describing Ransom? The Arko X Djenna pup,out of these 2 dogs described below?



> *Arko*
> _Arko has drive, power, and courage like we have never seen in any dog and he passes these traits on to his offspring with amazing consistency. ....He has a very dominant temperament, with natural aggression and is a very serious dog on and off the field. His frontal attacks are the fastest and most violent that you could imagine, his grips are punishing to the decoy, and his fight drive is extreme. He has won every hard hitting contest he has ever competed in, in the USA and in Holland! He also served as a working security dog in Holland where he hospitalized many suspects....
> *Please understand that this dog produces offspring that are hard to handle, and are very aggressive. Experienced handlers are required to handle most Arko offspring.*_


and the female


> *Djenna*
> _ The most serious female we have in our breeding program. Djenna has the type of temperament that is typical of the very old Dutch KNPV bloodlines. She is neutral to strangers, but is very easily triggered into a high degree of aggression when challanged. _


You got a pup coming from 2 of the most serious dogs available that you could possibly find to get a pup from in the whole country, out of dominant, aggressive, possessive dogs that are known to not be very social, and wanted him to hug and love you? and did not expect that these things might occur????

The progression of the dog, I cant say, but....Here is the progression of posts that were made here. Frankly, I saw this coming down the pike a mile away..as did others...cant say whether the dog was completely nuts or not, but I would also expect a dog out of that breeding to mature into a socially aggressive, dominant, one-handler type dog, that would not be friendly to a new owner of 3 days, and that could progress like he did, if not raised, trained, and handled properly, by someone that was unqualified to do those things.

The dog did not need a strong man to be able to pry the dog off of him, he needed a person that was capable of raising and handling such a dog. Not someone who thought everything was funny and cute until it got dangerous...even after you were warned repeatedly by a few people that I know of, me included....


*When you first got him*


georgia estes said:


> I love my new Arko son, Ransom. *He has attitude like I have never seen in such a young pup. He's got drive out the wazoo and a little vice grip. He is confident and not afraid of anything and he walks around like he owns the place no matter where he is. He has already bloodied and bruised me. Awww how cute.*


*5 months*


georgia estes said:


> When a big bad gar shows up around my dock, I send the 5 month old pup... since *he's got bigger cahones than my 2 yr old dog* :roll::-D


*6 months*


> Anyone else have one of these? Mine is 6 months old and neutral to me and most other people. He doesn't care to be petted or loved on really, he doesn't have much of an interest in being my 'friend'. If I have a ball he will play with me until he collapses but otherwise he is very "M'eh" about me. He's got a lot of drive and is always bouncing off the walls, and has a lot of aggression[/B]. He's got great nerve and nothing phases him which is a big plus. I guess I don't really need that 'loving feeling' for sport but it would be nice if he at least cared if I (the person who feeds him $75 a bag dog food) was around or not.





David Frost said:


> Uhhh, if you need to find him a good home, I might be able to help.............
> DFrost





georgia estes said:


> When I have the toy he is 100% focused but he is a very confident dog and doesn't seek out praise and stuff. *He just wants to do whatever it takes to get that damn ball and then run off with it*, or play fetch either one. No ball = screw you Georgia. *It really doesnt have to be a ball though, whatever I have is good enough, he just wants to possess something. Ball, pipe, piece of a leaf...*. lol





David Frost said:


> If you can control the reward, you can control the behavior. ha ha.
> I don't know all the fancy words, but my offer still stands.
> DFrost





georgia estes said:


> Well the deal is, he is everything else I want in a dog. I think I'd be hard pressed to find a better one. *He's got all the drive I have asked for in a dog, he's fearless, he's strong, he's beautiful, great nerve, super high intelligence, aggression, drive drive drive, full mouth bite right out of the whelping box.* The neutral thing is his only downfall.
> He is still a pup so hopefully he can change. He isn't afraid of anyone so I don't want people to get neutral confused with a shy dog because that's his exact opposite. *He's so full of himself all it would take would be an alert command and a few taps on the back and he'd bite you for real, no questions asked.* Don't get me wrong, I love this dog and I think he's going to make a hell of a PSA dog, he just isn't going to wag his tail 90 mph and lick my face which kind of sucks. I guess you can't win them all.





georgia estes said:


> *hahaha hmmm evil dog* for hot husband.... hehe \\/ I've got one too, hot husband but he doesn't like *my demon dog*.


*and then this thread*


georgia estes said:


> My dog has a habit of bringing me his toy and wanting me to throw it. I only let him have one toy in the house, the Kong because otherwise he is destructo. The kong is not his reward toy for obedience. Anyway, he brings it to me constantly. When I won't play he will get behind me and set it on my shoulder and on my head, in my lap and in my hand. If I take the toy away he will just go find something else and do the same thing. Anyone else have a dog that drives you batty like this?





georgia estes said:


> The worst was when I took him on a long car ride to the flea market. He picked up shoes, an umbrella, a mapsco, and just about ever other thing in the back seat and put it on my head.





mike suttle said:


> so what do all these obnoxious dogs do when you kick their asses and tell them your done playing?
> That seems to work just fine for me if it comes to that point.


*and then*


georgia estes said:


> So the demon that possesses my Loganhaus pup has entered the body of my once well-behaved mutt, Cobra. .....


and then you showed the bitework vid, and people said how he was showing good possession and looked to be pretty serious at the young age..

*and then at 8 months*


georgia estes said:


> Just curious what people do with their aggressive dogs when they go out of town? What do you do when you have a situation like... dog will eat someone who comes over to feed him....dog will eat people at the regular kennel...dog not allowed on vacation and you cant just leave him chained up in the yard. Just curious what people on here do who do not have their own fancy kennel set up.





georgia estes said:


> How much is too much? I have a dog who I believe is obsessed with the ball. He never, ever, ever puts it down. When I take it away, he hunts for it forever and ever. He won't stop. When he has the ball he is either throwing it, handing it to me, or running around with it in his mouth and then dropping it on me. I have never seen a dog like this. I've seen dogs with crazy drive but this is borderline stupid.
> 
> Just to show how obsessed he is, my rabbit got out of its cage and he ran in there and had to decide between rabbit and ball. The dog chose the ball. My question is, is there too much of a good thing or is that just dandy? It makes living with him tough because he makes my blood pressure sky rocket, lol. I swear this dog is going to have a heart attack at 2.



*AND THEN*


georgia estes said:


> *Out of control hormones?*
> 
> My 8 month old dutch pup has decided to hump everything including attempting to hump me lately. I will be sitting there typing and turn around and he's trying to hump me. He will hump blankets, pillows, or nothing at all. He's worse than my husband. It's driving me insane!





Joby Becker said:


> *Trying really hard to not sound rude here, but if you have an 8 month old Arko son that is humping everything,including YOU it is not because he is attracted to you LOL....
> 
> It sounds like you need to do some serious OB, CONTROL now...if things are as you describe them with the recent posts.
> 
> Could get dangerous fairly soon....if and when that happens the humor will be gone...your dog has been bred to fight humans, in case you forgot that...*





Harry Keely said:


> Oh Joby your no fun it might get very humorous, I mean isn't that what everybody wants until they get it is a real bad ass man eating, shit eating dog.:-s





Joby Becker said:


> I figured someone should at least mention it... in case Georgia is not just pretending to be an air head...


*and then*


georgia estes said:


> How do you ship your working dogs if they are very aggressive? I know I took one of mine to the airport and he merely barked a few times and they almost did not let him on the plane because he was 'vicious'. I am going to need to ship both of mine soon. The airlines I have dealt with do not allow the dogs to be tranquilized. They also have all this literature on aggressive breeds and aggressive dogs will not be shipped. I know working dogs get shipped though. How does one get around this?





georgia estes said:


> My dogs, one especially, is bat shit nuts in the crate. The second he sees strange men he is going to go mental. I'm stressing out. I'm going to go out on a limb and bet they won't let me drape the crate in an opaque sheet.





mike suttle said:


> shipping crate aggressive dogs can be impossible or it can be easy, it all depends on the airport and the person behind the counter. Just like shipping a large sized dog in a size 400 crate, at some airports it simply will not happen and at other airports it is quite easy.
> I ship a lot of dogs every month and most of them are idiots in the crate, but are very social out of the crate.
> Georgia in your case, I would suggest you carry the empty crate in the airport with all of the paperwork already filled out, the newspaper in the crate already, the food bowl snapped in place, tape a water bottle on the top of the crate and a small zip lock bag of dry food. Then go get the dog and walk him into the airport, let everyone know that he is a puppy, and let them pet him and see how social he is out of the crate, then if he barks in the crate just tell them he is making noise and not really aggressive at all (which is the case with about 90% of the dogs that are idiots in the crate)
> This will increase your odds at least. Or you can drive to my place and I can ship him from my airport with no problem at all.





georgia estes said:


> hmmm good idea. If you weren't 17 hours away I'd take you up on that offer.  I am a little worried to let people pet him due to the fact that he nailed a friend of mine last night and he had to be pryed off. Where he is a decently social dog, I don't trust him fully. I am looking into some better crates. Anyone know of a good airline acceptable one that's not $800-2k? Or some kind of shipping company that ground ships dogs?





rick smith said:


> was going to try and take the time to explain how to FIX this problem rather than just try and further isolate it, but after the reading the part about ... "I am a little worried to let people pet him due to the fact that he nailed a friend of mine last night and he had to be pryed off. Where he is a decently social dog, I don't trust him fully...." i realized there is too much denial taking place to waste the bandwidth trying


*and then when he was 1 year*



georgia estes said:


> What up Aj?? Haha I still have that picture of your arm. Yes, I train with a good Ringsport club up here. Ring is freaking harder than *I thought. It's definitely for the thinking dog, not the bite first, ask questions later dog (Ransom) but we are doing ok. He has a lot to learn though and he needs anger management classes.* Hell, we both do.


frankly,it was inevitable that this would happen in my opinion...starting from the first post about him. It appears that the dog is not the only one that might have been cray cray.



georgia estes said:


> I love my new Arko son, Ransom. *He has attitude like I have never seen in such a young pup. He's got drive out the wazoo and a little vice grip. He is confident and not afraid of anything and he walks around like he owns the place no matter where he is. He has already bloodied and bruised me. Awww how cute.*


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## james mackey (Mar 28, 2009)

I have a three year old Arko/Djenna son that is the best dog I've ever owned. He is tough, but fair. The reason I'm posting this is sooner or later someone will search for info on this breeding and shouldn't get the wrong impression.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

james mackey said:


> I have a three year old Arko/Djenna son that is the best dog I've ever owned. He is tough, but fair. The reason I'm posting this is sooner or later someone will search for info on this breeding and shouldn't get the wrong impression.


 
I've seen two dogs of the same pairing and one was a terd honestly and the other was a nice dog, but neither had the issues described about the dog Ransom.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

james mackey said:


> I have a three year old Arko/Djenna son that is the best dog I've ever owned. He is tough, but fair. The reason I'm posting this is sooner or later someone will search for info on this breeding and shouldn't get the wrong impression.


I was not intending to give wrong impression of the breeding, just pointing out where I think it went wrong, in this case...

Your dog seems like a really good dog..

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBul...nna-puppy-learning-agility-nico-back-bite.jpg


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I think everyone will understand that Joby's point of view is that the Ransom monster was owner-created despite full knowledge of the genetic potential for social aggression.

T


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> I think everyone will understand that Joby's point of view is that the Ransom monster was owner-created despite full knowledge of the genetic potential for social aggression.
> 
> T


and dominance and possessive tendencies, yes...


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Joby Becker said:


> and dominance and possessive tendencies, yes...


 
LOL


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

wow...


as a side note, Joby you're a sleuth!


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## james mackey (Mar 28, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> and dominance and possessive tendencies, yes...


Agreed. Nico was my first puppy to raise and train. I had always purchased green/adult dogs. If anything, the dominance and possessiveness made him easier for me to raise and train without "breaking." Like any other dog, there are things that I should have done/trained differently. But, his imperfections are owner induced as well.

After I could understand and admit this, I became a better trainer.


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## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

james mackey said:


> Agreed. Nico was my first puppy to raise and train. I had always purchased green/adult dogs. If anything, the dominance and possessiveness made him easier for me to raise and train without "breaking." Like any other dog, there are things that I should have done/trained differently. But, his imperfections are owner induced as well.
> 
> After I could understand and admit this, I became a better trainer.


The last line is what makes a great trainer!


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

wow I feel honored, my thread has a thread... I never said he wasn't a nice dog, he had great drive, wasn't afraid of anything, he was a very nice dog, just very possessive, handler aggressive, and way too dangerous to be my first real working dog. Yes, the signs were there and if you knew me at all you'd know I'm no wuss. I really wanted to bond with him and I really wanted it to work out. I had him from 7 weeks old and there was still no bond. I really didn't start the thread to rehash a dog I got rid of years ago. Yes he ate me alive many times, so I did the smart thing when I realized he was too much for me, I got rid of him. Not really sure what your point is? That I had a dog that was too much dog? Yeah I gathered that, that's why I sold him.


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## John Campbell (Jul 25, 2010)

I may be off base a bit here but it seems that this situation could have been avoided with a little realistic self assessment. I'm very new to the working dog world...do I want a Ransom type dog YES...Should I have one NO!! I'm a Cessna pilot do I want an F-18 sure could I fly it NO. 

It seems to me that the dog required more time and attention than the owner was willing to give. That drive that we all want has to go somewhere, It can go into being a great dog or go into F'ing your S--T up.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Joby, while you made your point was it necessary? Ever think that the breeder of this dog could have exercised better judgement and not placed a pup from such a pairing with a relatively new handler? Is this a reasonable question? I think so, this breeding was also mentioned to me when I initially was looking for a pup. 

Difference was I knew better than to get a dog I wasn't prepared to handle. It took a while for me to figure out what I wanted/needed and I have to say the wait ws worth it. I got exactly what I wanted or expected to and am very pleeased with her.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nicole Stark said:


> Joby, while you made your point was it necessary? Ever think that the breeder of this dog could have exercised better judgement and not placed a pup from such a pairing with a relatively new handler? Is this a reasonable question? I think so, this breeding was also mentioned to me when I initially was looking for a pup.
> 
> Difference was I knew better than to get a dog I wasn't prepared to handle. It took a while for me to figure out what I wanted/needed and I have to say the wait ws worth it. I got exactly what I wanted or expected to and am very pleased with her.


necessary? who knows....maybe....maybe the next person that gets a dog they cant handle, might read this and see some of the warning signs. like dog being out of control, and humping them, and biting them several times..also maybe reading this will make someone research a little more, communicate better, or be more realistic about the type of dog they want and can handle...or try to move the dog before something bad happens.

Frankly it just irked me how it gets blamed on the dog....

..good pairing of pup to purchaser? obviously not in this case..who knows how that went down though. I have sold dogs to people that could not handle them before too, you explain what the dogs are going to be like, the people tell you all about their experience in handling dogs, and that they titled this dog and that dog, sometimes they convince you, and you hope for the best. I am not privvy to all the private correspondences here...but I do know that Mike did suggest that she sell him the dog back, once the problems were apparent publicly... Knowing what I know of Mike I am sure he would have taken the dog back no problemo for pretty much any reason, have seen good dogs he took back that were almost ruined by their owners....so no reason to think he would not take this one back.

It is not a rare thing that come dogs get returned to breeders for not being a good fit for one reason or another, especially with certain types of dogs, even with more experienced handlers.

I know someone else with a brother to your dog, might go check him out...he got moved because his owner was having issues controlling him as well...not sure if he got bitten or not though...


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Nope I don't blame the breeder at all. He advertised it as exactly what it was. I'm actually thankful for the experience as I learned a lot (the hard way). Really nothing else to say, he's been gone for years, I have a nice dog now that does exactly what I need, and I'm a better handler because of my experiences.


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

Good for your Georgia..

You learned! Some people don’t..

That’s all anyone can ask from in owning and training dogs, we need to keep learning from them. We can only gain experience from working with dogs and it is usually the “problem dogs” that give us the most chances to improve with.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

You won't get any argument from me on the fact it wasn't the breeders fault on how the dog turned out. He had no control over that. Seems to me he was more than upfront in what one could expect from that breeding. I also recall that his general character was rather obvious in the very first videos you put up of him.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

I might be wrong but I think Ransom got straightened out and trained in detection and bitework, and is now working on a SWAT Team.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Glad to hear that if that's the case.

Joby earlier were you talking about a brother to my dog or Ransom?


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

georgia estes said:


> Nope I don't blame the breeder at all. He advertised it as exactly what it was.* I'm actually thankful for the experience as I learned a lot (the hard way)*. Really nothing else to say, he's been gone for years, I have a nice dog now that does exactly what I need, and* I'm a better handler because of my experiences*.


That's why I think these threads can be beneficial. Not to put a spotlight on Georgia, or anybody for that matter, however we all make mistakes. It would be nice if we could be transparent about it, take our lumps, and let others learn from our mistakes & growing pains. I think it would be unfortunate if people clammed up and everybody acted like things were always cool when I'm sure there are people making mistakes, learning, and that would benefit from hearing about these situations, both for the pitfalls and the potential ways to salvage the situations, or even at which point you should jump ship.

-Cheers


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Arko produced very strong, dominate dogs with a lot of drive and very short fuses. I always did my best to make sure everyone who bought a puppy from me out of Arko knew exactly what they were getting. Many people told me this was exactly what they wanted........until they actually had it and then very quickly they realized they couldn't handle that type of dog. 
In the case of Georgia's dog Ransom, he was from a litter of only two males, and believe it or not the other one was a real asshole, Ransom was for sure the easier of the two puppies to handle and was the least dominant of the two. I saw Ransom work in Dallas a couple years ago when he was being worked by Khoi Pham and he looked nice. I later saw the dog in January of 2011 and I took him out of his crate and walked him with no issues at all. I gave him a few corrections on the leash just to see what type of reaction he would give me an I got nothing, he actually was a pretty easy dog compared to most of the Arko sons that I had. I saw nothing out of the ordinary with the dog at all, but I have seen and raised many Arko sons so maybe my opinion was bias , but in any case he was a dog that would have been managable by an experienced handler. 
I am in no way saying that Georgia was not a good handler, but I think maybe (as even she has admitted) she was not ready for a dog like this. 
I will always take a dog back from anyone who I have sold a dog to, but if I sell a puppy for $1200 that is all i will pay to get the dog back, or I will exchange him for another puppy. In the case of Ransom I think he was worth much more than the $1200 puppy price that Georgia payed for him so I don't blame her for selling him to someone else instead of returning him to me.


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## dewon fields (Apr 5, 2009)

Damn Georgia, u left one hell of a back log of Ransom notes. Personally I would have euthanized him. 
I wonder how many homes Ransom went thru after he left Georgia then full circle back to Mike S.?
Crazy ass dog do exist, just like crazy people. Some dogs just need to be euthanized instead of being passed around like a joint (puff puff pass) because their bred good. Everyone knows with puppies its a crapshoot. You might get a CharlieBrown type or Charles Manson type.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

dewon fields said:


> Damn Georgia, u left one hell of a back log of Ransom notes. Personally I would have euthanized him.


Did you read Mike's reply? It sounds like the dog ended up in a different environment where, nuts or not, it did fine.

-Cheers


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Really Dewon??? put down?? that is an ignorant thing to say, never having met the dog in question....and NO Mike did not end up with him, things did however go full circle, and the dog turned out fine.

Dog went to someone that could handle and train him. Why would you want to see him put down? Kara and Jimmy had him less than 8 months and he went on to become a dual purpose SWAT dog...

post about Ransom from Kara when she had him...

_*Me and Jimmy's current dog for a little while- see where and what he will be suited for- his nose and bite are really nice, he's an Arko son out of Dutch KNPV lines. 
I really like this dog!* _ :-D 

that post was less than 3 weeks after Georgia posted this here.


georgia estes said:


> What up Aj?? Haha I still have that picture of your arm. Yes, I train with a good Ringsport club up here. Ring is freaking harder than I thought. It's definitely for the thinking dog, not the bite first, ask questions later dog (Ransom) but we are doing ok. He has a lot to learn though and he needs anger management classes. Hell, we both do.


here are some pics that were posted of him along with that first message.



















and then the next post concerning the dog, not even 8 months later...

_*"I don't know if you guys remember Ransom, the dutch shepherd... 
he was a great, hard dog that his handler couldn't handle. Jimmy and I got him, trained him detection and bite work to be worked as a dual purpose dog in the police or military. 
Ransom is now a K9 officer in a U.S. S.W.A.T. team! 
So proud of this guy... he is a great dog, and will serve the country nicely!" *_:-D
























































_*.........Aw thanks everyone!. I miss him*._



Kara Fitzpatrick Vanhove said:


> lol. that's funny! watch out man.
> *I miss my Ransom!*


sounds like Kara thought he was a great dog...maybe she will see this thread and give a true assessment of the dog that she owned for almost 8 months. I for one am glad he got a second chance.....


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## Lisa Radcliffe (Jun 9, 2011)

Joby Becker said:


> Really Dewon??? put down?? that is an ignorant thing to say, never having met the dog in question....and NO Mike did not end up with him, things did however go full circle, and the dog turned out fine.
> 
> Dog went to someone that could handle and train him. Why would you want to see him put down? Kara and Jimmy had him less than 8 months and he went on to become a dual purpose SWAT dog...
> 
> ...


+111 thanks for sharing this great story  thank god there are some people who know how to really read a dog like this and congrats to the Swat team too


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## John Campbell (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks for posting the update. The comment by Mr Fields makes me wonder how many great dogs are put down due to that kind of thinking.


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## Michael Joubert (Jul 17, 2012)

John Campbell said:


> Thanks for posting the update. The comment by Mr Fields makes me wonder how many great dogs are put down due to that kind of thinking.


Probably more than we know.

I have one here that had been moved around quite a bit. He's been a great addition to our home, nothing wrong with him. Just mishandled in some of his previous homes


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

sounds like Kara thought he was a great dog...maybe she will see this thread and give a true assessment of the dog that she owned for almost 8 months. I for one am glad he got a second chance.....[/QUOTE]

No, she probably won't. You know why? Because nobody gives a sh*t but you. I have no idea why you're obsessed with my posts and obsessed with a dog I got rid of a long time ago, so much that you put god knows how many hours into digging up, highlighting, and bolding all kinds of shit that nobody cares about that I posted years ago. So much so that you started TWO other threads about it.

Let me get this straight, you get some cute pics of the dog playing ball and all of the sudden he's a therapy dog who can be turned lose in a daycare? Get real. Kara is in the suit because Jimmy had to handle the dog, gee I wonder why? Still though... WHO CARES.

* Who's crazy now?* The person who sold the dog to someone who she knew could take that dog where he needed to be or the nutzo who spent hours/days digging up old posts to prove some point that's unknown. I'm not mad, Mike Suttle isn't mad, nobody got screwed, no names dragged through the mud etc. I purposely did not mention any names, you're the one who rehashed all this crap, started naming names and nobody knows why. It's a non issue. The dog has a good home and everyone has moved on. Jesus Christ.

I have NO IDEA what your deal is with this particular dog. I said he was a nice dog, I said he had great drive, courage etc, that was all true. He had almost everything I wanted in a dog, he was just too dangerous for MOST PEOPLE TO HANDLE. I never said nobody could handle him. Actually I said the opposite, I said there are plenty of experienced dog guys who could handle him, just not me.

In my opinion and a few others (including Dewon who not only met the dog but was in my club), the dog wasn't right in the head. The dog and I did not mesh well for some reason and that's why he is gone. LET IT GO.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

David Ruby said:


> That's why I think these threads can be beneficial .... let others learn ....


Georgia did indeed talk about learning from the experience, Dewon _had_ met the dog, Joby didn’t know that he had, the outcome was great because Georgia did the right thing when she realized that she had the wrong dog for her, and there was an interesting thread.

Peace, love, kumbaya, and a round for the house on me (well drinks .... no top shelf).


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## georgia estes (Nov 3, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Georgia did indeed talk about learning from the experience, Dewon _had_ met the dog, Joby didn’t know that he had, the outcome was great because Georgia did the right thing when she realized that she had the wrong dog for her, and there was an interesting thread.
> 
> Peace, love, kumbaya, and a round for the house on me (well drinks .... no top shelf).


well said connie...This video describes this whole clusterf*ck ... l am so the dude.... l have the flu and this thread made my fever go up to 102.... lm going to bed....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wu598ENenk


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_.... and that rug totally tied the room together, did it not?_


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

oops my bad..my apologies for the error there Dewon. I did not know you met the dog and had assessed him.


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## dewon fields (Apr 5, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> oops my bad..my apologies for the error there Dewon. I did not know you met the dog and had assessed him.


 Its all good bro, I don't take this board personal. I just laugh because Ransom been gone for years, yet the crazy MOFO is still a conversation piece.


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## dewon fields (Apr 5, 2009)

John Campbell said:


> Thanks for posting the update. The comment by Mr Fields makes me wonder how many great dogs are put down due to that kind of thinking.


 Great dog?? When a dog you raise from 8 weeks attacks a member ofyour family..... thats a first class ticket to death row at my house. Sorry, I have zero tolerance .


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

dewon fields said:


> Great dog?? When a dog you raise from 8 weeks attacks a member ofyour family..... thats a first class ticket to death row at my house. Sorry, I have zero tolerance .


Regardless of how unfit the dog's owners are? That seems harsh and over zealous to me, not to mention completely unfair. I also don't think it's an accurate assessment when you evaluate one of these dogs while they're still in that poisonous environment without first removing them and giving them a chance to relearn some basic rules. I have known plenty of dogs that have been nightmares even deemed dangerous with their first incompetent owners but made excellent dogs once rehomed to some one more appropriate and some times it was a difference of an ounce of common sense and good basic 101 dog skills. 

I think many of us have seen this happen lots of times and stories like this should not be shoved under the carpet, they serve a good purpose to educate those who think "that won't happen to me, I'm going to get that tough dog anyways and show them all how cool I am".


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## Daniel Lybbert (Nov 23, 2010)

> When a dog you raise from 8 weeks attacks a member ofyour family..... thats a first class ticket to death row at my house. Sorry, I have zero tolerance


I dont think my dogs will ever bite me. I dont think I will ever have that problem. If I ever did have a dog that bit me for serious it would be tuned up then if it did it again,noone would have to worry about it again.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Dog was sold as a sport/companion. I would love to know the dog's lifestyle now as a SWAT dog and how he lives with his handler--family dog, kennel dog and work??? I have a hard time imagining him even with the best of upbringing as a sport dog but maybe so.

T


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Connie Sutherland said:


> *Georgia did indeed talk about learning from the experience*, Dewon _had_ met the dog, Joby didn’t know that he had, the outcome was great because Georgia did the right thing when she realized that she had the wrong dog for her, and there was an interesting thread.


Yeah, I think that is why I think it is good to have these experiences out there. Not that anybody wants to be the central focus of such a story and have their growing pains put on display, if/when they are willing to I think there is a lot to be learned from that. So I meant that in all seriousness.



> Peace, love, kumbaya, and a round for the house on me (well drinks .... no top shelf).


Sounds alright to me. I think it's important to be objective on these things, but hopefully not get defensive (or offensive) about them either.



Marta Wajngarten said:


> *Regardless of how unfit the dog's owners are? That seems harsh and over zealous to me, not to mention completely unfair.* I also don't think it's an accurate assessment when you evaluate one of these dogs while they're still in that poisonous environment without first removing them and giving them a chance to relearn some basic rules.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> I think many of us have seen this happen lots of times and stories like this should not be shoved under the carpet, they serve a good purpose to educate those who think "that won't happen to me, I'm going to get that tough dog anyways and show them all how cool I am".


That is also part of why I think these threads could be important/useful. While we have calls to put this dog down, it seems to have gotten a second chance and, if reports are correct, was able to work out just fine. That seems like a better outcome to me. If there is a situation where that can be rehabbed/trained/controlled/directed/whatever and put to good use, I would rather see that. In this case, the dog's on a SWAT team?!!! That seems like a win for most everybody, isn't it?

-Cheers


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## John Campbell (Jul 25, 2010)

dewon fields said:


> Great dog?? When a dog you raise from 8 weeks attacks a member ofyour family..... thats a first class ticket to death row at my house. Sorry, I have zero tolerance .


So you are saying that a dog that you admittedly was to much for you to handle you would kill rather than try and place with a handler more suited than yourself? I could understand if out of the blue the dog just went nuts but that doesn't seem to be the case here.


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