# Hoping for breed match help



## Erika Ackerland (Oct 27, 2011)

My future goal is to be involved in French Ring, after attending a seminar and spending countless hours reading about and researching it. I believe I have found "the" sport for me.
My problem is a breed of dog. While I do love the energy, drive and over all working dog that is a Mal, I am just not extremely drawn to the breed. I have met a few Mals in the area and all but one are exactly what I would love in my next dog ( one is just a bit too intense for my preference, definately a dog I just adore however in all honesty just a bit too much dog for me)
I am not looking for another dog for the next few years ( 2-3) but I am really stuck on what breed would be the best fit so I will lay out what my ideal dog would be and hopefully someone here can help steer me in the right direction. 
My ideal dog would have
- Good Drive
- Solid Temperament
- I prefer larger dog but not talking 100+ pounds
- Coat. We do a LOT of winter stuff around here and I would love a dog that can be out at the icehut for a day of icefishing and not require coats and boots and the like.
- Good health ( meaning out of breed specific health tested lines as I do understand its not a guarantee every time)
-Basically a good all around dog that I can take to various things and have it do well, but I want to focus on ring.

Now, to me everything points towards GSD, which honestly isn't a breed that I have ever considered owning before ( not sure why honestly) I am not apposed to getting a GSD next but to me it will be like finding a needle in a haystack to find my perfect dog among GSD breeders. There are so many 'breeders' in this breed and I know little about the lineage or what to look for exactly when looking for a working dog. 
IF there is another breed one someone here feels fits for me, I would love to hear it.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

If you have decided that FR is the sport for you, you really should get a Malinois!!!!!

There are LOTS of larger mals around these days, for sure way bigger than the ones you have been exposed to. There are all sorts of temperaments open to you even in mals that can be competitive in FR.

My mal has a very short coat and lives and works outside all winter, a mal can be your winter buddy for sure, and doesn't need to be babied!

I do think that the very best winter dog would be a GSD, and if you are more interested in breed than sport, a GSD may in fact be the dog for you. There are people doing FR with GSD's in Canada and the US, if you strike up a relationship with them, I am sure they will point you in the right direction as far as breeders producing dogs that would be a good match for you and your goals.

You are going about things the right way and leaving yourself time for research and to build relationships. I know you live up north, but I would be planning to look at some FR training, especially some GSD's in FR to help you learn more.

Other than Dutch Shepherds, I don't think that there are any other breeds you should be looking at that would suit your needs.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Erika Ackerland said:


> My future goal is to be involved in French Ring, after attending a seminar and spending countless hours reading about and researching it. I believe I have found "the" sport for me.


Cool glad to be a part of that. Hearing this makes it all worthwhile the 7+ hour drives up your way. 




Erika Ackerland said:


> Now, to me everything points towards GSD, which honestly isn't a breed that I have ever considered owning before ( not sure why honestly) I am not apposed to getting a GSD next but to me it will be like finding a needle in a haystack to find my perfect dog among GSD breeders. There are so many 'breeders' in this breed and I know little about the lineage or what to look for exactly when looking for a working dog.
> IF there is another breed one someone here feels fits for me, I would love to hear it.


To me the only 'real' other alternative is a really good GSD. Or maybe a well bred Beauceron or Terveren from real work or herding stock. But a working Beauceron or Terv will even be harder to find than a GSD for the purpose. 

Over on this side of the Atlantic you can find lots of nice GSDs but to be able to find a GSD here that will take the extreme jumps that Ring requires is going to be problem. All nice GSDs over here are all usually IPO/Schh lines and the jumps are nowhere near as intense in those sports to really test 'maximum' Ring jumps. So it could be quite a crap shoot to go to the top of the jump scale with those types of lines. 

I'd take a look at the SV 2000 group as a benchmark of working GSDs in the modern age, http://www.rsv2000.de/en/1/Startseite.html?sid=03M1J5znM7UiY they seem to be more in tune with the 'working' part of the GSD than other orgs. There is also small pool of French Ring GSDs in France based around Sarco and Ulko des Crepsicules that I'd google or look up on daily motion too.


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## Erika Ackerland (Oct 27, 2011)

I'm in no way hung up on a breed, it really doesn't matter a whole lot to me but of the Mals I have seen I have really appreciated the dog but the size thing was there.
However this


> but to be able to find a GSD here that will take the extreme jumps that Ring requires is going to be problem


may just be exactly what I needed to get over the size thing. I honestly did not even think of that but it makes a VERY valid point.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I'd just like to say this - RSV 2000 use the Oxer which is definitely higher than the 1 m hurdle in IPO for their Körungen.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Erika Ackerland said:


> I'm in no way hung up on a breed, it really doesn't matter a whole lot to me but of the Mals I have seen I have really appreciated the dog but the size thing was there.
> However this
> may just be exactly what I needed to get over the size thing. I honestly did not even think of that but it makes a VERY valid point.


Erika, like I said, a lot of the mals you have seen in your area are all somewhat related, and all *at the small end* of what is being produced in the breed.

Finding a mal larger than what you have seen, but still able to be fast and agile enough for FR, will not be an issue I don't think.


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## Erika Ackerland (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks Jennifer,
Which kennel/lines would be a good way to go to see this? I would like to start talking to prospective breeders and build a relationship with them soon. I don't want to go with the "current" litter if it doesn't have my ideal dog in it you know. I am perfectly fine with waiting for that dog I will share my life with for its life time.
A good match is very important to me, I am definately not against getting an older puppy but preferably not an adult. For example a breeder keeping back a pup from a breeding but it does not quite have what they want in a dog most likely would suit me just fine.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Erika Ackerland said:


> My future goal is to be involved in French Ring, after attending a seminar and spending countless hours reading about and researching it. I believe I have found "the" sport for me.
> My problem is a breed of dog. While I do love the energy, drive and over all working dog that is a Mal, I am just not extremely drawn to the breed. I have met a few Mals in the area and all but one are exactly what I would love in my next dog ( one is just a bit too intense for my preference, definately a dog I just adore however in all honesty just a bit too much dog for me)
> I am not looking for another dog for the next few years ( 2-3) but I am really stuck on what breed would be the best fit so I will lay out what my ideal dog would be and hopefully someone here can help steer me in the right direction.
> My ideal dog would have
> ...


In a difficult sport like FR, you have to kind of decide to some degree: do you love the sport or do you love the breed? If you love a certain off breed, you may have to be okay with possibly not getting as far in the sport because that breed is going to have some natural limitations. If you love a certain sport, you want to go with the best breed for that sport. In this case, it's going to be the Malinois. Then again, success is not guaranteed for every Malinois either. :-({|= for me...

If a Dutchie might suit you, I would ask Asheley Winters at http://www.dutchshepherds.us/ as she does FR with her Dutchies. I would definitely get a Dutchie from her.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

yes for sure that all our dogs around here are related , most that you have seen, and i personally wanted smaller ( for me its what i like ) there are DEFFINATLY bigger mals out there then our 60lbs ers
.. 
Dantero Kennels is good and Kadi is very nice, her dog Mac is on the larger size , 

if you TRULY want to do french ring though , a mal is probably the best choice, but if you just want to play around a shep would be good to learn on and maybe more your style ,, 

to me doing french ring is what i would LOVE to do with my boys but realistically the closest decoy is over 8 hrs away, i just cant travel enough to get on a decoy as often as i need,

I deffinalty want to keep (playing ) with my boys in FR but , to compete i dont know if i will ever get there, Vandal is 2 yrs been on a decoy 2 X and Villain is almost 1yr , been on a decoy once, 
its just not enough lol ,,, 
and we are trying to teach stuff on our own but really its like the blind leading the blind ,lol 
so for now , I will compete in other stuff and play around in french ring and enjoy my dogs! 

So unless you are willing to travel ALOT , you have to think about whats realistic in our area,,,
I know you do travel alot in general , so it may be possible for you ,, 

>>>>>I have met a few Mals in the area and all but one are exactly what I would love in my next dog ( one is just a bit too intense for my preference, definately a dog I just adore however in all honesty just a bit too much dog for me)>>>>>

which dog is this , he he he he


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

I'd get ahold of Richie Bonilla... I think he's in going to be having a litter soon from his current dog Vic (2010, 2011 NARA FRIII champion) and his female. The sire for the female was Viigo des Contes D'Hoffmann, and from what I understand, that male was 95lbs working weight.

If my wife would let me, I'd fly down there for a pup in a heartbeat.

As for lines, I really like the Contes D'Hoffmann lines, from what I've seen, they're big and do well at FR once you get them under control. I have a pup from Cd'H/Kukay lines and he a rocket. He's almost 9 months, going through another growth spurt, and he's about 25.5" and 55lbs - so I think he'll probably top out at between 26-27" and 70-75lbs.

I also think Kadi Thingvall (the dog is "Mac" - she's breeding him soon) and Debbie Skinner (the dog is "Dexter") have dogs in their respective kennels/lines that are much bigger than the average.

But then again breed standard for a male Mal is probably only around 60. My female is 23.5" and 55lbs.

Good luck in the search.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

>>>But then again breed standard for a male Mal is probably only around 60.>>>

this is what i got, 60lbs is the smaller range


Malinois dogs are about 24–26 in (61–66 cm), while Females are about 22–24 in (56–61 cm) at the withers. Female Malinois are said to average 25–30 kg (55–65 lb), while sires are heavier at 29–34 kg (65–75 lb). They are squarely built.


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## Ryan Venables (Sep 15, 2010)

yep... I showed my female, and she was generally the biggest one in the ring...The Tervs were bigger but only because of the fur. The conformation breeders want square, although long is acceptable in a female, and their bitches are generally in the 40-50lb range... at least in Southern Ontario where I showed. The dogs, were 65 max usually.

I think the weight thing is relative to what you're doing w/ them. The show dogs, I think, are generally a little over weight... when I finished showing her and before I started protection sports, she was about 62 lbs... I now keep her at around 55-57, enough so that when she's breathing hard, I can see all the ribs.

My pups dad was 85lbs, and his mom was 75lbs... I think those who are doing protection sports do not care so much about conformation as opposed to attributes that will make them work better. Those from working lines are definitely bigger than conformation though... at least in my experiences.


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## Tabatha Farnel (Sep 7, 2008)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> if you TRULY want to do french ring though , a mal is probably the best choice, but if you just want to play around a shep would be good to learn on and maybe more your style ,,
> 
> to me doing french ring is what i would LOVE to do with my boys but realistically the closest decoy is over 8 hrs away, i just cant travel enough to get on a decoy as often as i need,


Tammy brings up a very valid point. I was serious about FR this past summer before I realized that my girl might not be cut out for it after all. In those few months that I was training I spent numerous weekends in Ottawa, Orillia, Barrie, etc. and I felt like I wasn't doing enough.

I don't want to discourage you, but the most of the people who compete and are serious about the sport train with clubs multiple times a week, not every few months. Sure, it's possible to do on your own, people have done it, but you definitely need some guidance along the way. 

So I guess my point is to get a dog that you want to live with first, since you may not be able to be as serious about FR as you'd like up here in northern ON.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I forgot to say if you are interested in a GSD for FR, you might want to contact Jeff O. He is not a member here anymore, but I will pm you his FB info.

He has gathered lots of info on GSD lines working in Ringsport, has lots of links to video, and knows something of pedigree's for those lines for sure.

He has started breeding GSD's with Ringsport as the primary goal (I think, but don't quote me there). 

I think he has some pups on the ground currently, even if you are not ready now, he may be a good resource for you to check out!


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Tabatha Farnel said:


> Tammy brings up a very valid point. I was serious about FR this past summer before I realized that my girl might not be cut out for it after all. In those few months that I was training I spent numerous weekends in Ottawa, Orillia, Barrie, etc. and I felt like I wasn't doing enough.
> 
> I don't want to discourage you, but the most of the people who compete and are serious about the sport train with clubs multiple times a week, not every few months. Sure, it's possible to do on your own, people have done it, but you definitely need some guidance along the way.
> 
> So I guess my point is to get a dog that you want to live with first, since you may not be able to be as serious about FR as you'd like up here in northern ON.


On the bright side, the more of you in Northern Ontario that get interested in the sport, the more you can pool your resources to bring training to YOU. Plus, carpooling for distance training, sharing knowledge and the like.

Yah, it is going to be hard to be super competitive right away, but you can still have fun, learn, and grow the sport so that one day you will have kick ass resources, knowledge and training available right were you are.

Send your town beauty queen to France and tell her to bring you back a decoy LOL 

Well that is the dream anyways LOL.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

...Send your town beauty queen to France and tell her to bring you back a decoy LOL


THAT WOULD BE TABITHA~!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Is size the only issue you have with Malinois? It sounds like it from subsequent posts but it wasn't clear in your first post.

If so, like many people have already stated, there are larger Malinois out there. There are also people advertising their dogs as bigger than they are LOL A true 75 lb Malinois isn't uncommon, and dogs in the 80's also happen on a regular basis in some blood lines. 

Also keep in mind that the Malinois is a lighter dog than the GSD, not necessarily smaller height wise. The breed standards have the same heights

GSD - The desired _height_ for males at the top of the highest point of the shoulder blade is 24 to 26 inches; and for bitches, 22 to 24 inches.

Mals - Males are 24 to 26 inches in height; females are 22 to 24 inches; measurement to be taken at the withers. 

The difference is that the GSD is bred to have more bone, and a longer body, hence the additional weight. But the lighter frame of the Malinois is what gives the dog it's athleticism and also plays into longevity.


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## Tabatha Farnel (Sep 7, 2008)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> ...Send your town beauty queen to France and tell her to bring you back a decoy LOL
> 
> 
> THAT WOULD BE TABITHA~!



LOL!!! While I could get Nathan on board for dog #3, I'm not sure about bringing home a decoy.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Tabatha Farnel said:


> LOL!!! While I could get Nathan on board for dog #3, I'm not sure about bringing home a decoy.


The decoy would be ideal before the next dog....Nathan is just going to have to understand.

I hope everyone knows I am only joking.

Mostly.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

Maren makes a great point. Your dog my be a good pet and a bad F.R. dog or visa versa. I have a mal that is good for F.R. but picks up everything in the house. Not a good pet. When you want a working dog you have to buy that FIRST. You have to hope the other things( size and good pet) come in the same package. I don't know where you are but Richie's vic is a house dog and a good ring dog. That would be a get place to start.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Tabatha Farnel said:


> I don't want to discourage you, but the most of the people who compete and are serious about the sport train with clubs multiple times a week, not every few months. Sure, it's possible to do on your own, people have done it, but you definitely need some guidance along the way.


I am as about as serious as it gets for up here. I do not have regular access to a decoy. I only train 2-3 times a month with a decoy during the trial season and rarely see a decoy during the winter, the key is training with quality people it is as simple as that. So I will drive the hours needed to do just that. Then following through with home work which = OB and jumps. FR is not just about the bite work there is 2 other phases to the sport that any one who has trained agility or done CKC/AKC style OB can do. 

I know a few people who don't have decoy resources who will pre-trial bring in someone with a lot of experience to help them on the foundations already laid and then have successful trials. There is a couple of girls on the west coast that even do their own decoy work and have good results that way too. 

If you have the will to do it .. you will do it.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

>>>If you have the will to do it .. you will do it.>>>

AND MONEY !!! driving 8 hrs one way 2-3 times a month is expensive, as well as getting in a decoy , paying for flight accomidations and stuff. 

but if you have the money and the time, its worth it for sure!


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## Tabatha Farnel (Sep 7, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> I am as about as serious as it gets for up here. I do not have regular access to a decoy. I only train 2-3 times a month with a decoy during the trial season and rarely see a decoy during the winter, the key is training with quality people it is as simple as that. So I will drive the hours needed to do just that. Then following through with home work which = OB and jumps. FR is not just about the bite work there is 2 other phases to the sport that any one who has trained agility or done CKC/AKC style OB can do.


I didn't realize you only had access to decoys so infrequently Geoff. And you definitely make it work! When you train with the group in Ottawa are you just doing obed?


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

PS I am not planning on totally giving up, still want to have some seminars and decoys up here when we can ...


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## Erica Boling (Jun 17, 2008)

Timothy Saunders said:


> Maren makes a great point. Your dog my be a good pet and a bad F.R. dog or visa versa. I have a mal that is good for F.R. but picks up everything in the house. Not a good pet. When you want a working dog you have to buy that FIRST. You have to hope the other things( size and good pet) come in the same package. I don't know where you are but Richie's vic is a house dog and a good ring dog. That would be a get place to start.



Richie was also telling me about his German Shepherd and says it has no problem doing French Ring height jumps. (Not sure what what height he's currently jumping.. what level.) I've never seen a GSD do Ring III level jumps. I've seen them compete at lower levels, but not Ring III. Anybody know of or even have videos of a GSD doing Ring III height jumps?

My Malinois is a Bogan son... Dexter grandson. He's huge. He is very tall and weighs about 86 pounds... and is very lean. His littermates are all very big too. The other day, somebody asked me if Bacci was a German Shepherd x Great Dane cross! LOL Seriously, Malinois ... especially the working lines... come in ALL sizes.


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## Tabatha Farnel (Sep 7, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> If you have the will to do it .. you will do it.


Also, I completely agree. I had my mind set to make it work for me, I was looking into buying a suit, but my dog changed that, lol. And I don't like any sport so much that I'm willing to exchange my dog for another, so FR is on hold for me for a while.

However, I just wanted to point out to Erica, that seriously embarking in FR up here will mean a significant amount of travel, and like Tammy mentioned, that gets expensive very fast. 

But who knows, maybe we will end up forming a group up here in a few years time.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Tabatha Farnel said:


> But who knows, maybe we will end up forming a group up here in a few years time.


Like.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Tabatha Farnel said:


> I didn't realize you only had access to decoys so infrequently Geoff. And you definitely make it work! When you train with the group in Ottawa are you just doing obed?


I do all OB and jumps with Phin here but no bite. Unless Fred supervises he doesn't want anyone else doing bites with him at this point was the agreement I made with him. Sasha works with the decoy in Ottawa we are lucky when we get once a week with him. While a talented Schh training and trial decoy he is still learning FR techniques. Schh and FR the techniques are not interchangeable by any stretch of the imagination. As a team we know Malinois and what they need and we have a great system for putting the OB around the bite work exercise we work on. A lot of her DOH and search was done with the Schh decoy here in Ottawa this year for example. But we don't do long field bites or able to teach her the super advanced techniques. All the same stuff could be worked on with Nathan or interchangeably by all the people up North who are crazy enough to put on a suit for all your dogs. I've seen you catch dogs Tab and you are a natural there is no reason why you can't help train dogs to bite IMO. Then bring in someone like Fred, Waleed Malouf or Jimmy Van Hove for every one to learn, handlers and handlers who wear the suit then teach your dogs proper technique a couple times a year. You all have a great group of smart talented trainers there, to me there is no reason why you can't make progress as a group in the sport. 

This year I was only able to work with Fred maybe 10 times there was a 3 month period right in the middle of trial season where I did not see him as he had a new job that took him out of the picture, plus he is in high demand for seminars in both Canada and the USA now. So every time he is gone working with someone else, my dogs are not worked. It sucks but that is what it is. I just keep putting one foot in front of the other, trudging away.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> >>>If you have the will to do it .. you will do it.>>>
> 
> AND MONEY !!!


Ah yes, Money. If any of you boys or girls are still single...may I suggest passing on love, and marrying for money?

Of course I am kidding.

Sort of.


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## Matt Grosch (Jul 4, 2009)

its a simple question of priorities and then getting the right tool for the job




if you want to be a racer (competitor) you get a race car, if you want to have something you will enjoy with a normal life you get a corvette or something


figure what you want, then get a dog to match (too many people do it the opposite way)


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

You girls up north really should not overlook Tabatha as a decoy, she's got the moves. 

Erica, I think you really should expose yourself to more mals before you write them off as a breed, and while you're at it don't over look the Dutchies. Between these two breeds, between all the various lines and types, there should be a dog in there you would be happy with that could be your entry FR dog. Get out there and meet some dogs. 

I just did a quick search and the cost of a flight via Porter from Sudbury to Montreal for a weekend is $250, that's less then the gas cost for me to get there from Toronto. I'm saying flight because you don't have a dog. You could easily fly around to check out clubs/dogs/training while you're deciding and in the mean time learn more about the sport. 

Too bad that you missed the season, but there will be next one. Try to make it to some of the trials and watch the dogs in action and meet them in the paddocks.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

French ring = Mal if you want to be serious about competition. Otherwise go with what you like....but then that's like bowling with a football.


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## Erika Ackerland (Oct 27, 2011)

So many people I want to reply to but I can't go back over the past few pages and do so individually so I will try to keep it general.
First because its just too funny, Marta... I would rather drive than fly! I have this little ummmm, issue with flying and I think the plane is always falling apart. I don't fly well lol. Next season I would be more than willing to head out to see more, I am not looking to add another dog around here for a little bit anyway and want to make sure its what I want before anything!!
Tammy, you know the Mal thats just Too much for me...  but he's a super awesome dog, for you.
I have no opposition on getting a Mal or Dutchie, and now that I am aware that there are larger ones I am more interested.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Tabatha Farnel said:


> But who knows, maybe we will end up forming a group up here in a few years time.


LOL More like a few weeks time is more like it..


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

also you see Vandals hair Erika, its a good length , i have never seen him be cold at all in the winter, but he is not a outside dog, we do alot of stuff, he is usually moving around alot, but i have never had to put a jacket on him or seen him be cold, Villain has shorter hair so we'll see..


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## Jen Henriksen (Dec 21, 2010)

Erica Boling said:


> My Malinois is a Bogan son... Dexter grandson. He's huge. He is very tall and weighs about 86 pounds... and is very lean. His littermates are all very big too. The other day, somebody asked me if Bacci was a German Shepherd x Great Dane cross! LOL Seriously, Malinois ... especially the working lines... come in ALL sizes.


I can relate to this - my Mal Riley got called a great dane a few times when we were in Ottawa :smile: He's 29" at shoulders and 72-ish lbs. Having no luck putting weight on him at the moment either!


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## Erika Ackerland (Oct 27, 2011)

Tammy I think it was the link you had sent me where I saw EXACTLY the coat I would love. the dogs name was Extra.
Vandal does have a nice coat. I just don't want something like Elmo really. I like my double coated breeds.

Also, to comment on the fact we don't have the greatest resources up here, it wont get any better if no one new gains interest, I wouldn't insist on having the best of the best to start out with our lack of resources, but I don't want to settle for something that just doesn't have it either.


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## Tracey Hughes (Jul 13, 2007)

There is an interesting looking GSD breeding that just took place in France..

Kennel du Temple de Boucoba

contact person:	Jean Pierre MARTINEZ
phone:	03 25 80 39 70

E-Mail:	[email protected]
Homepage:	http://www.mas-montilla.com

mating day:	2011-11-05


Apollon-du-Mas-de-Montilla Ring 3 x Banga-du-Val-des-Hurles-Vent Ring 2

You can find the complete pedigrees at Working Dog - Eu if you are a member there or do individual searches on the dogs mentioned.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Erika Ackerland said:


> Tammy I think it was the link you had sent me where I saw EXACTLY the coat I would love. the dogs name was Extra.


It might have been my website, I have a female named Extra. She's a Terv out of Malinois, but with a more minimal coat than you find in the conformation Tervuren.


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## Erika Ackerland (Oct 27, 2011)

Thats her  coat wise I love that


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

breeding plans are to Mac who is LRG, so there ya go !!!!!


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Erika Ackerland said:


> Thats her  coat wise I love that


Food for thought .. :-s 

Without going off on a rant. When you start thinking about coats and ear sets, colour etc first and not thinking first about workability, the health and mental traits you will need to do the sport. You will get just that!!


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

i dont think she is talking about looks as much as you think , she is trying to be realistic with coat, she wants a dog that can withstand the winters up here , and hang outside for the day and not get cold, realisitcally , Villains coat is not the coat for her, so sometimes it is a priority ,,,


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## Erika Ackerland (Oct 27, 2011)

Yep Tammy is right on the nail.
I'm not hung up on looks, sure a fluffy coat would be a perk for me but as long the future dog has a good enough coat to get through a winter of icefishing and snow shoeing I'm happy. I just don't want to be putting coats on every time we head out. And it gets fiercly cold around here sometimes, doesn't mean we stop living.
I am in the conformation world right now as it is, and I don't want another pretty shell of what once was a breed by all means. If pretty was what I was after I would just shop rescues for the exact look.
I just prefer larger dogs and coat is kind of a necissity for a dog of mine is all


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Tammy do your mals get cold in the winter up there? 

Erica, would papers be important to you? There are the papered mals and dutchies, then there are the "papered" mals and dutchies that are not FCI/AKC/CKC registered coming from working breeders, usually KNPV stuff. This is a DutchieX female from KNPV lines a friend here has, I think she has some GSD in her:










She looks like she would do just fine in the cold


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

Vandal has not been cold yet in the winter at all, Villain though has very short hair, so i think that he will be cold this winter, last winter he was freezing, but he was a skinny little puppy..


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

also i think papers would be important if she wants to do French ring?


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> also i think papers would be important if she wants to do French ring?


You can do FR with no papers and earn titles, I think the only limitation is you can't compete for the Championship. lol which considering in all of Canada there are what.. 6 people if not less in play for it, that might be a big deal, but some people don't care about titles. As long as you can register the dog with UKC you would be eligible. Some one with more knowledge on this can chime in. I'm assuming it is technically possible for a blue dog to be the highest scoring dog, but not be a champion based on the blue status.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> You can do FR with no papers and earn titles, I think the only limitation is you can't compete for the Championship. lol which considering in all of Canada there are what.. 6 people if not less in play for it, that might be a big deal, but some people don't care about titles. As long as you can register the dog with UKC you would be eligible. Some one with more knowledge on this can chime in. I'm assuming it is technically possible for a blue dog to be the highest scoring dog, but not be a champion based on the blue status.


CRA has no breed restrictions. But only the authorized breeds on the SCC list may compete in France. Any male dog that is not sexually intact or any unregistered dog will have a Blue Dog scorebook to compete. There is no lifetime limit on number of Blue Dogs per handler. So UKC, CKC, AKC or a any FCI registered pedigree or registration is what you need for a regular scorebook and your dog needs a functioning reproductive system. Since it is still a breeding worthiness test.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> CRA has no breed restrictions. But only the authorized breeds on the SCC list may compete in France. Any male dog that is not sexually intact or any unregistered dog will have a Blue Dog scorebook to compete. There is no lifetime limit on number of Blue Dogs per handler. So UKC, CKC, AKC or a any FCI registered pedigree or registration is what you need for a regular scorebook and your dog needs a functioning reproductive system. Since it is still a breeding worthiness test.


Geoff am I right that the only major restriction for having a blue dog is that you can't qualify for the Championship? Otherwise you can attend trials and earn any titles.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> Geoff am I right that the only major restriction for having a blue dog is that you can't qualify for the Championship? Otherwise you can attend trials and earn any titles.


I've heard that but it isn't in the rule book I cut n pasted what was in the rulebook. So it is in by-laws probably look on the CRA website all you seek should be there or on the CRA yahoo message board document section.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> your dog needs a functioning reproductive system. .


Just one correction, your male dog needs his testicles. There is nothing about females in the rulebook, French or English, so a female dog can be spayed and still have a regular scorebook and compete at all levels.

I'm not sure what the CRA's rules are, but in the US NARA will accept papers from any national registry for scorebooks, since there are so many of them it wasn't worth trying to keep track of all of them, especially for the breeds AKC doesn't register. So WWKC, or ConKC papers work, and are not hard to get even if the parents of the pup aren't registered.


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## Stephanie P Johnson (Nov 13, 2009)

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/506175/Basco des Trévires/

Watch the video and tell me that a GSD cannot do French ring. There are hundreds of GSDs getting their FR3s every year in France.

My boyfriend can point you in the right direction if you are interested in a GSD. 

Dutullerrett.com


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