# K-9 killed



## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/cri...oot-kill-wasilla-man-who-fatally-wounded-k-9/

I opened my email to find a link and picture to this dog. What a pisser. The State Troopers lost another one back in September, and with that loss it put them at having just 6 dogs. I do not know if Help (the dog mentioned in the link below) was replaced or not.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/201...handler-of-k-9-killed-in-line-of-duty-sunday/

I've mentioned before that the crime up here is growing with enormous leaps and bounds. It's a legitimate concern for many who live within the Anchorage bowl or surrounding cities. The drug abuse/crimes and gang related violence is rampant. Just as recent as Friday I was assaulted by a man high on meth. 

Anyway, whether man or K9, this news always wells up anger in me. :evil:


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Nicole Stark said:


> https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/cri...oot-kill-wasilla-man-who-fatally-wounded-k-9/
> 
> I opened my email to find a link and picture to this dog. What a pisser. The State Troopers lost another one back in September, and with that loss it put them at having just 6 dogs. I do not know if Help (the dog mentioned in the link below) was replaced or not.
> 
> ...


What in your estimation is the cause of the rise in violence?


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

A combination of things, the two in the forefront: a statewide herion epidemic and SB91.

http://www.alaskastar.com/2016-05-11/danger-lurking-sb-91#.WNg8p-mFVaE


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Sad to hear this. :-(


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

A terrible loss!


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Nicole Stark said:


> A combination of things, the two in the forefront: a statewide herion epidemic and SB91.
> 
> http://www.alaskastar.com/2016-05-11/danger-lurking-sb-91#.WNg8p-mFVaE



Have I mentioned lately how m uch I hate drugs and how they are absolutely ruining our culture/society? The prescription drugs are the worst thanks to the good ole merican AMA ...


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Friggin sucks.](*,)


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Two within 6 months makes me pause. The number of dogs for the State Troopers was stated in previous article to be six. Two dogs killed from such a small number seems exceptionally high to me. But then again, I am not in touch with the statistics involving K-9 injuries and deaths. Can someone give me an idea if I am off base or not?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Not an expert on stats but two out of 6 seems way out of line especially considering the population per square mile in your State.

I think we had some 300+ murders in St. Louis last yr but I don't recall any K9s killed in the line of duty here recently other then one that I believe died from a fall while on duty. 

I'm trying to find the stats on numbers of K9s in the area. 

Maybe a dozen between City and County.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

HORRIBLE 

regardless of the statement that the dog was not required to be wearing it for 'regular' work, i sure hope the vest wasn't purchased as a result of lessons learned from the first K9 that was killed 'cause if it that were the case, there are prob a lot of people kicking themselves 

these days there doesn't seem to be anything 'regular' about LE work

never trained with a ballistic vest but have with LLC harnesses. ballistic would seem to be a lot more rigid. the probs have always been comfort, K9 mobility and the pita factor. usually once the habit is formed, most of the factors diminish and it goes unnoticed


all i can say for the poor K9 is R.I.P. 
we promise your death and service will not be in vain


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

rick smith said:


> all i can say for the poor K9 is R.I.P.
> we promise your death and service will not be in vain


Amen Rick.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

K9 ballistic vests are not practical in the South primarily due to the heat reducing the dogs' working time. There are more cons than pros to the vest. We have them but I've never used it. If a firearm is involved in an incident we do not use the dog. Losing two dogs in such a short time is very much NOT the norm.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Howard Knauf said:


> K9 ballistic vests are not practical in the South primarily due to the heat reducing the dogs' working time. There are more cons than pros to the vest. We have them but I've never used it. If a firearm is involved in an incident we do not use the dog. Losing two dogs in such a short time is very much NOT the norm.



Yep in Louisiana ballistic vests are actually dangerous during the hotter months... we learned that the hard way a few years back. Losing two dogs back to back like that is not even regular in the MWD end. Dang I hate it too.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

This was so ridiculous that I couldn't help but post it as this event relates to the crime I spoke of when I expanded upon this thread.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/cri...-up-2-jewel-lake-stores-anchorage-police-say/

Course, on a more serious note, yesterday this occurred.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/cri...ults-in-shooting-of-anchorage-grocery-worker/

Alaska is pretty insulated from the rest of the US so I haven't any real notion about how our quickly escalating crime compares to anywhere else in the US. The general feeling here is it's a little like the Wild West, particularly in Anchorage and the Matsu areas. 

A few days ago while walking my mastiff I crossed paths with this unbelievably disheveled man dragging a snow sled behind him (by now the snow has melted from the streets and side walks). A bit of a strange reckoning for both of us, I think. First, that I wasn't afraid of him and second, he nodded back at me as I greeted him. As I passed him I thought, I guess he isn't totally gone, maybe there's hope yet.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Trying to rob a store with a cardboard box on your head and a knife in your hand will almost guarantee getting shot here.

Same with the antics of the idiots in the store hanging around long enough to cause all that trouble. 

It just seems very curious/strange to me with all the firearms in Alaska.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> K9 ballistic vests are not practical in the South primarily due to the heat reducing the dogs' working time. There are more cons than pros to the vest. We have them but I've never used it. If a firearm is involved in an incident we do not use the dog. Losing two dogs in such a short time is very much NOT the norm.


i would venture to guess it's that way in most of the US. out west, i would say there are probably 4 months out of the year where it's feasible to use a vest from a heat perspective. that's a lot of training/de-sensitivation for a tool that would only get used a handful of times and even when used, severely limits the capabilities of the dog.

for the most part, ballistic vests are just a feel good, PR tool for people looking to latch onto a perceived good cause. i don't have a problem that, i think community involvement is great, especially when dealing with our K9 units. they're just not the panacea for all high risk deployments. as howard said, if it's known that firearms are involved, the K9's use is extremely minimal if at all.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Tim Martens said:


> i would venture to guess it's that way in most of the US. out west, i would say there are probably 4 months out of the year where it's feasible to use a vest from a heat perspective. that's a lot of training/de-sensitivation for a tool that would only get used a handful of times and even when used, severely limits the capabilities of the dog.
> 
> for the most part, ballistic vests are just a feel good, PR tool for people looking to latch onto a perceived good cause. i don't have a problem that, i think community involvement is great, especially when dealing with our K9 units. they're just not the panacea for all high risk deployments. as howard said, if it's known that firearms are involved, the K9's use is extremely minimal if at all.


 Ever since the young girl who started "Pennies for police dogs" to buy ballistic vests got started, people think we really need them. Yes it is a feel good move. Yes it is good PR. The last set of vests offered to our unit were politely declined but instead we accepted other things needed for our dogs. The folks offering were confused so the most tactful person in the unit carefully explained why we don't use them. I also have a K9 cool vest that I've never used. Mainly for the same reasons I don't use a ballistic vest. Too much of a PITA. A good handler will recognize the dogs' condition when working in the heat and stop when it's time. Fortunately we have enough K9 units in my area to have another on standby to resume a deployment once the first dogged is done. IMO it's better to condition the dog to working in the heat than relying on equipment. A previous ex handler worked a MWD in the Air Force. He was a big proponent of all the K9 goodies so he found ways to get them even though we didn't need them.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard/Tim, is there a take away here for what is beneficial and welcomed from the public? If anything?


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> Howard/Tim, is there a take away here for what is beneficial and welcomed from the public? If anything?


 Any piece of training equipment that we'll actually use. In the case above, we opted to get new e-collars and at home kennels for our dogs. Regular equipment is purchased every year so when the money is offered we default to the wish list. Something in the way of night vision, go pros, or dog mounted cameras. Something we'll actually deploy with/use and not just dust collectors.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

for starters, how about supporting PD's with quality dog food and vet care ?

let the depts buy the tools they need and the public can support the K9"s

that would seem like a simple solution to me
ever been done ??

in my more gullible days i sent a K9 cop a grand to get an operation for his dog....unfortunately he never used the money for that purpose :-(
- live and learn


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

rick smith said:


> for starters, how about supporting PD's with quality dog food and vet care ?
> 
> let the depts buy the tools they need and the public can support the K9"s



I will say that our local emergency vet cared for our dogs, for free, for over 20 years. Since they've become the largest on the East coast here they now charge us but at a reduced rate. Heart worm and flea&tick used to be free, now they charge us. So yes, we'll use some of the money for that as well cause it ain't cheap.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm adding to this thread as it appears another K9 has been lost in Alaska, this time to a medical reasons. For those who have knowledge of the associated costs in obtaining/maintaining a dog for a PD is the the figure they give in the article accurate?

http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Ci...iser-to-pay-for-new-police-dog-427339723.html


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nicole Stark said:


> I'm adding to this thread as it appears another K9 has been lost in Alaska, this time to a medical reasons. For those who have knowledge of the associated costs in obtaining/maintaining a dog for a PD is the the figure they give in the article accurate?
> 
> http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Ci...iser-to-pay-for-new-police-dog-427339723.html



Going rate for a PSD candidate is $8,500. Since they already had a dog the cost of the vehicle and associated equipment doesn't come into play. Cost to train is debatable. Most agencies have a schedule to replace dogs in the unit. Don't know how old this dog was. Sometimes if we lose a dog that has working life left we will allow a seasoned dog to work longer if he's capable and use the slated funds to purchase a new dog. Cost of training is the officer's salary. The OT is something they have figured already for that handler, it's not extra.

My best guess total, money-wise is around 20K or so. That includes purchase of the dog, 480 hr patrol school, and 160 hr narc school. Also based on officer pay at $20/hr. In Florida, a seasoned handler only has to certify. If they can do it in less time they are allowed. I've certified 3 dogs in 200 hours. Gotta do the full drug/bomb/cadaver school though.


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