# Is it worth it?



## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm not a breeder and I'm not in competitive sports (yet) so I really know nothing about pedigrees and such. But is it really worth it to inbreed a pair. Like father/daughter, or mother/son kinda deal. 

I've got an inbred dog and she's a mess. There is 5 generations of inbreeding in her line. All I can see is the downsides to such a breeding.

So what are the pros and can you be so sure about it?


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

gheezus how many line/in/out/up/down/sideways breeding posts can one forum handle :-s

to help you out...maybe you should start out by reading the other posts on breeding in any shape size or form...youre answer will probably be posted there in technicolor.


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## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

Sorry.. didn't realize this was covered.... It was just a question that I've been wondering about.. Didn't mean to upset anyone...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Did you get the dog intentionally knowing she was that inbred?


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f28/how-close-too-close-breeding-18643/


have a look on this topic.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

if the dog is a mess, the Dog/lines must not be very good, genetically speaking...that type of breeding will set the traits, and bring them to the surface...the good and the bad..


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## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Did you get the dog intentionally knowing she was that inbred?


Nope. She was an Agility prospect (Lab/BC). I started looking more into her family line after she started showing problems. I found out that one of my roommates owned her uncle, and from there I dug up the entire story. The joys of a small town and such.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Amber Phillips said:


> Nope. She was an Agility prospect (Lab/BC). I started looking more into her family line after she started showing problems. I found out that one of my roommates owned her uncle, and from there I dug up the entire story. The joys of a small town and such.


A CROSS with 5 gens of inbreeding please post pedigree..


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Certainly where sheep dogs are concerned inbreeding and line breeding can have a lot of value. But you really have to know what you are doing. I am currently reading a very good explanation of this from one of Australias authorities on breeding sheepdogs.


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## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

Joby Becker said:


> A CROSS with 5 gens of inbreeding please post pedigree..


You won't find the pedigree on line or even on papers. All I had was word of mouth. The guy who started this family was an ass and didn't care about his dogs. He just bred for money. The Lab/BC doesn't cover half of what she is.. Maze's litter is the first one in awhile to be outbred. Mother was the inbred cross and Father was a pure black lab.


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## Charles Guyer (Nov 6, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> A CROSS with 5 gens of inbreeding please post pedigree..


Yeah. That don't quite jive.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

When you're mixing breeds and what not how can you even blame the inbreeding as the faults of the dog? Sounds like you have a heinz 57 that got problems (and who knows, you don't know if the father that was the outcross passed it down? He could have just as much as the other closely related dogs). 

Major line/inbreeding isn't the problem - it's what traits are expressed when doing it. Ifyou get defective puppies from a closely linebred breeding, then you know that it is in the lines and you don't do it again. If you keep repeating it, you're an idiot. 
I think it's much more likely you'll see undesireable traits in outcrossed breedings than carefully (note well thought out) linebreeding. 
They won't all end up being banjo playing idiots unless there is something in the line, and then you know it's there and you don't want to outcross and hide it either.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

Thank you Ashley. That's just what I wanted to know.


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

It's just my take, I don't breed dogs. We've done some close line breeding on horses and they've come out spectacular - better than either parent by far. But if we got a banjo playing idiot, we'd know something wasn't right in that line and consider the fault and if it would be covered up by outcrossing or repaired.

Easy way to remember it. If it comes out good, it's linebreeding, if it comes out bad, it's inbred.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

So the dog is an outcross.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Ashley Campbell said:


> hey won't all end up being banjo playing idiots unless there is something in the line...
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


My granpappy, my dad, and 3 uncles play the banjo...


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> My granpappy, my dad, and 3 uncles play the banjo...


But are they related more than once? That's the key to extreme banjo playing, your granpappy, dad, and uncles all need to be related closer than that, like at least cousins on the other side for it to work right. Then you're good to go.


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## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

Ashley Campbell said:


> Easy way to remember it. If it comes out good, it's linebreeding, if it comes out bad, it's inbred.


I love it!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

What do you mean by the "dog is a mess.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

why would anyone breed a lab / BC cross for agility ?
i have heard of sport mix dogs, but they are BC / Jacks or staffy Jacks 

never heard of anyone breeding a lab to anything to get a agility dog


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## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

Maze has some many allergies to almost everything under the sun, she was diagnosed with a heart murmur recently, her temperament is crap. Just a big pile of problems.

As for the breeding, it was an unplanned breeding on a "friend's" part. I say *"friend"* because he turned out to be a total ass with a dog who never should have been bred. I didn't make this post to have my dog's breeding be picked apart. Was it a mistake to take this dog, yes. However I do not regret taking her on. If her heart had stayed healthy, she would have been an amazing agility dog. 

Thank you to those who answered my question.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Amber Phillips said:


> Maze has some many allergies to almost everything under the sun, she was diagnosed with a heart murmur recently, her temperament is crap. Just a big pile of problems.
> 
> 
> As for the breeding, it was an unplanned breeding on a "friend's" part. I say *"friend"* because he turned out to be a total ass with a dog who never should have been bred. I didn't make this post to have my dog's breeding be picked apart. Was it a mistake to take this dog, yes. However I do not regret taking her on. If her heart had stayed healthy, she would have been an amazing agility dog.
> ...


You didnt make this post to have youre dogs breeding picked appart...ehm correct me if im wrong but wasnt it you that first made the statement that all the dogs issues were due to the breeding of the dog ? which in that case would make people ask questions about the breeding and the line itself ? 

now what was it you said ?



Amber Phillips said:


> *I've got an inbred dog and she's a mess. There is 5 generations of inbreeding in her line.*


how can a comment like that not raise any questions ? when you state such a thing people are wondering how close the breeding might have been ? all sorts of questions come to mind with statements like that so you should expect people to ask and wonder instead of getting upset about having youre dog picked apart as you call it...you opened the door, now expect people to walk through it.

5 inbreedings dont mean shit in my eyes when you state it like that without a line to support the statement...5 inbreedings in howmany dogs ? how long is the line you went and looked into...what do you call inbreeding to begin with ? 5 inbreedings could have been over 10 generations or even more...theres a whole range of stuff that comes to mind....what do you actualy consider inbreeding ?


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## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

Alice Bezemer said:


> You didnt make this post to have youre dogs breeding picked appart...ehm correct me if im wrong but wasnt it you that first made the statement that all the dogs issues were due to the breeding of the dog ? which in that case would make people ask questions about the breeding and the line itself ?
> 
> now what was it you said ?
> 
> ...


I consider inbreeding to be a close breeding between mother/son, father/daughter and brother/sister. Going back 8 generations, just on the mother's side, there are 5 known cases of inbreeding. Mostly brother/sister. The litter that Maze's mother came from was inbred from father/daughter. And in that litter (Maze's mom), there were 2 litters that were brother/sister. Maze's litter was not inbred. I know nothing about Maze's father except that he was a pure black lab.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Amber Phillips said:


> I consider inbreeding to be a close breeding between mother/son, father/daughter and brother/sister. Going back 8 generations, just on the mother's side, there are 5 known cases of inbreeding. Mostly brother/sister. The litter that Maze's mother came from was inbred from father/daughter. And in that litter (Maze's mom), there were 2 litters that were brother/sister. Maze's litter was not inbred.* I know nothing about Maze's father except that he was a pure black lab.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> If you know nothing of the father, how do you know he was PURE black lab?


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## Amber Phillips (Jan 9, 2011)

I am going on what I was told. I never met the father.


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