# Is it just me???



## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

You ever been talking to someone that tells you they love dogs and have been around them all their lives......while they keep banging the top of the dogs head withn the palm of their hand like they are trying to kill a tick or something. Been around dogs all their lives and don't have a clue how to even pet a dog??? Or, is this just how some people show affection.....like an android. Seems to me they are mighty uncomfortable with dogs.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Not just you!
If I'm getting to know a dog I always like to scratch them under the chin. 
That pop on the head can get a person bit with the right/wrong dog. At best it's got to be irritating to the dog.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Ha ha. I know exactly what you mean. The president of my local SAR group was doing that very thing to my Tiekerhook boy, and he lived with multiple dogs, his wife being the group's K9 handler. I know_ I'd bite _the fricker that did that to me.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I do know, for years I've enjoyed the looks on peoples faces when I answer some questions. I'm often asked what we do with the dogs we retire. I look at the person and tell them, we feed them a good meal and then put a bullet behind the left ear. I wish now I'd have taken pictures of the reactions. It would have made one heck of a coffee table book, ha ha. 

DFrost


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## Lori Gallo (May 16, 2011)

Sitting in the vets office a while back and there was a woman walking up to every dog in there, cupping their face with both hands and then patting them on the head..about 3 inches away from their face. She mentioned that she loves dog so much!!
I backed up with my dog, held up my hand and told her not to touch him. 

A few minutes later a woman walks in with a ? boxer/great dane mix who was a rescue. The owner looked at the woman and says: "He's a rescue, hasn't wagged his tail yet or played with anything at all, he likes it best if you just stand there and talk softly"..... Unbelievably the woman walks over and does the same thing she had been doing...I could not believe my eyes actually. The owner had to leave the waiting room.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

obviously "loving" dogs and "being around them all their life" has no relation to understanding dogs, and they are always the most difficult customer for me to work with 

i've had LOTS of vets who pat dogs on the head the same way .... which means that even though u might be trained to perform canine surgery it has no relation to being able to understand dogs either 

i am usually quick enuff to never let that happen to a dog i'm with, but if they do get a pat in, i remove their hand and IMMEDIATELY thump them on the top of their head and ask them if that makes em comfortable and then explain they shouldn't do it to small kids either ..... over here, the head thumpers are usually seniors or macho types who think a "good" dog needs to be staked out behind the back porch keeping the stray cats away.

but over all, unless they own a face licker, i can't imagine any good owner/handler allowing a new person to get between them and the dog they're with. controlling the immediate environment around your dog is s.i.m.p.l.e., and prevents 99.99% of this crap from ever happening 

fwiw, if i am gonna leave a dog in a car for a short time, i always make sure there is enuff space they can get their muzzle thru the cracked windows on either side

but when i read all these stories, why not put some of the blame where it is due ? - with the OWNER .... how can someone sit on their butt (like the great dane rescue owner at the vet) and allow people to come up and screw with their dog like that ??? totally irresponsible imo, and really hacks me off sometimes. if they can't stand up and look out for their dog around other people in public places - they shouldn't own one, and should stop blaming other stupid people around them !!


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Rick, do you overmedicate?


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I think many people have only been around dogs that you can pet that way. My friend's Golden would stand beside me all day getting smacked on top of the head if I let him and if I stop, he nudges my elbow for more, usually slopping my wine down my shirt front in the process.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Rick, do you overmedicate?



Don.

I think you and rick said the same thing. He just spelled it out.


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

rick smith said:


> but when i read all these stories, why not put some of the blame where it is due ? - with the OWNER .... how can someone sit on their butt (like the great dane rescue owner at the vet) and allow people to come up and screw with their dog like that ??? totally irresponsible imo, and really hacks me off sometimes. if they can't stand up and look out for their dog around other people in public places - they shouldn't own one, and should stop blaming other stupid people around them !!


Maybe these owners have only ever had friendly dumb goldens, like Leslie's friend. Maybe they've never had a dog that would bite... really bite... ever. Maybe these owners are too timid themselves and cannot say no?

Also, sometime it isn't so much "allowing" as being quick enough to head off people that sneak up behind you or come around a corner unexpectedly.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Well, the reason I brought it up had nothing to do with my dogs biting someone. I was sitting on the deck and was watching my brother pat one of my dogs on the head like this. The dog just moved away from him, but, it did make me think of the numerous other people I have seen "pet" dogs the same way. My comment to Rick was for the part about the irresponsible owner that can't protect their dog from this. Anyone can pet my dogs as long as I like them, it isn't up to the dogs to choose. Really it had nothing to do with a need to protect the dogs from others out in public on my part because my dogs are very seldom out in public. Most have never been subjected to people. I just find it a very clutsey way to pet a dog. I know my brother has been around dogs most of his life and he pts this way. But, my brother recently bought 2 male queensland heeler pups, hard about parvo, so he kept his dogs in the house, totally, so they now know that is where they do their business.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Well, the reason I brought it up had nothing to do with my dogs biting someone. I was sitting on the deck and was watching my brother pat one of my dogs on the head like this. The dog just moved away from him, but, it did make me think of the numerous other people I have seen "pet" dogs the same way. My comment to Rick was for the part about the irresponsible owner that can't protect their dog from this. Anyone can pet my dogs as long as I like them, it isn't up to the dogs to choose. Really it had nothing to do with a need to protect the dogs from others out in public on my part because my dogs are very seldom out in public. Most have never been subjected to people. I just find it a very clutsey way to pet a dog. I know my brother has been around dogs most of his life and he pts this way. But, my brother recently bought 2 male queensland heeler pups, hard about parvo, so he kept his dogs in the house, totally, so they now know that is where they do their business.


I understand you are looking to the owner to be responsible, but....

Irresponsible owner is one thing, but I have encountered a lot of people that think all dogs are their buddies and get into my personal space to interact with mine. My dog is for me and my enjoyment, not them. I take my body in public and I don't let anyone rub it or pat it. People don't have boundaries when they should. 

They do it to working dogs all over the world. "It's okay, they like me." You have to be really switched on to avoid people like that, social or unsocial dog. They are dogs and have a bad day. Human nature is weird. A dog with no muzzle in the city, and people step on his paws, with muzzle, they cross the street to avoid them... Different thought process. 

The issue I think is people are not generally switched on, poor home training, and their behavior generally reflects "Oh, that hanging piano really was a bad idea to walk under" after it falls on them. Not safety conscious or used to swimming in a bigger pond. They have their comfort zone and don't read further into anything. There are diseases that will kill you, people do occasionally have bad intent towards you, and dogs do bite. There are things you do to keep yourself safe, and to be courteous, but Darwinism is alive and well.

Wikipidea says_ Perhaps the greatest barrier to a paradigm shift, in some cases, is the reality of paradigm paralysis: the inability or refusal to see beyond the current models of thinking.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm#cite_note-8_

This is lived daily by several.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

My current male is even less social than me, but regardless, I don't let strangers rub their grubby mitts on my dogs. Only god knows where those hands have been, and since I'm probably the next to touch my dog where ever they chose to "pat" my dog, (head or otherwise), whatever was on their nasty ass hands will then make it's way onto me. My dogs are for me, not anyone else. I made the mistake of expressing this point of view on another forum and was told by a few people that I was not a good "ambassador for the breed". As if I give a damn. Anyway, isn't that what show dogs are for?


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

I think that a lot of people just genuinely have no idea about animals in general and rush in to pat a dog without any real observation or understanding of a dogs body language. Even many people who have had dogs as pets fall into this category.

My dogs show anything from a deliberate head duck to an almost imperceptible flinch when patted on the head. People comment on the head ducker as unfriendly and I just tell them that I am sure they woudlnt enjoy it either if a stranger came up and patted them on the head. They seem to think that because they like patting a dog that the dog must like it too. 

My Koolie always attracts attention because of his unusual colouring and people simply have to touch him. He is a very obliging dog and seems of all my dog to be reletively immune to having his head patted LOL although it doesnt happen often as most of the people I associate with at trials make a fuss of him without patting him on the head.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> My current male is even less social than me, but regardless, I don't let strangers rub their grubby mitts on my dogs. Only god knows where those hands have been, and since I'm probably the next to touch my dog where ever they chose to "pat" my dog, (head or otherwise), whatever was on their nasty ass hands will then make it's way onto me. My dogs are for me, not anyone else. I made the mistake of expressing this point of view on another forum and was told by a few people that I was not a good "ambassador for the breed". As if I give a damn. Anyway, isn't that what show dogs are for?



So you are a good ambassador for manners and boundaries...


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Sara Waters said:


> I think that a lot of people just genuinely have no idea about animals in general and rush in to pat a dog without any real observation or understanding of a dogs body language. Even many people who have had dogs as pets fall into this category.
> 
> My dogs show anything from a deliberate head duck to an almost imperceptible flinch when patted on the head. People comment on the head ducker as unfriendly and I just tell them that I am sure they woudlnt enjoy it either if a stranger came up and patted them on the head. They seem to think that because they like patting a dog that the dog must like it too.
> 
> My Koolie always attracts attention because of his unusual colouring and people simply have to touch him. He is a very obliging dog and seems of all my dog to be reletively immune to having his head patted LOL



Why would someone mistake my property for theirs and attempt to force themselves said property. I don't care about my dogs body language. I want people to stay away from me and my dog. I am enjoying my dogs company. Maybe they should have the courtesy to ask me if it's okay, because the dog is mine. Especially in today's litigious society. 

Well meaning citizen #1 assumes it's okay to pet a dog so they do.

Dog owner #1 assumes well meaning citizen #1 is going to get bit after repeated warnings not to touch the dog. Dog owner #1 sees himself getting sued, loosing all his money. His way of life is threatened, he sees himself becoming despondent after said bite, and ending his own life. Dog owner #1 now has articulated a threat (albeit thin) to his own well being. Should he be able to make all those assumptions and shoot Well meaning citizen #1?

Of course not, but well meaning citizen #1 needs to keep his hands to himself and not make assumptions.


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## catherine hardigan (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm probably just fortunate, but I've never had problems with people running up to pet my dogs without permission. Then again, my old dutchie is always muzzled when out in public (we usually live in cities) and I go out of my way to avoid people if they do not avoid us.


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## Tyree Johnson (Jun 21, 2010)

I have a neighbor like this .... he gets drunk (blackberry brandy) and not just a sip ... walks around with his bottle in his back pocket, (hiding it) from his wife ....i guess she missed his 3 DWi's, flipped truck and bar fights .... (hes 5'2 maybe 140) but let him tell it, he beats everybodys ass

he has a nine year old son ... they have two dogs, a pit and a lab .... the kid thinks all dogs are like his.............. and he likes to tease and rush my dog ... his father has no sense at all and sometimes encourages this ...

granted my dog is a nervous wreck ..... but she listens well and is always contained and on lead ... mainly because of this kid, and because their dogs constantly break out of the fence ....

just had a discussion with the boy and his dad last night .... listen, im sorry i mean no disrespect but my dog does not like you .... thats just how she is ... shes scared to death and she sees you as a threat, please don't try to touch her or tease her .....

10min later ... (bang) kid bangs on my screen door, dog goes nuts ...... it was late, his dad was drunk and hopefully by the time i get home tonight he won't be working on another bottle, so i can talk to him while he can somewhat comprehend what im saying ..... 

i say all this to say ... its annoying and people just don't get it ..... i've accepted that and will just take every precaution possible because i can't count on them to do the right thing ..


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

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I am sorry I brought it up. I don't care if people walk up and pet what dog, I was wondering if I am the only one that finds slapping the dog repeatedly on top pf the head an odd way to show affection to a dog. Do they think dogs enjoy that?


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
> 
> I am sorry I brought it up. I don't care if people walk up and pet what dog, I was wondering if I am the only one that finds slapping the dog repeatedly on top pf the head an odd way to show affection to a dog. Do they think dogs enjoy that?


I find it odd too, Don. I think it must be a learned behaviour, like chimps using a tool to fish out termites from a mound, only a learned stupid behaviour, that stupid people learn from watching other stupid people. I can think of no reason under the sun why anyone would think being repeatedly slapped on the head would feel good.

I do have an idea though, the next time someone does this to your dog, go up to them and do it to them.:-D


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Thank you Susan! I sometimes wonder if t is just me. LOL


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## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I notice a lot of people doing just that, I prefer to scratch friendly dogs under their neck or on their shoulder blades personally.
I don't know why people do it though Don, it can't feel good - agreed, maybe someone should do it back to them, lol.


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## Lori Gallo (May 16, 2011)

" when i read all these stories, why not put some of the blame where it is due ? - with the OWNER .... how can someone sit on their butt (like the great dane rescue owner at the vet) and allow people to come up and screw with their dog like that ??? totally irresponsible imo, and really hacks me off sometimes. if they can't stand up and look out for their dog around other people in public places - they shouldn't own one, and should stop blaming other stupid people around them !!"

I agree Rick..In this rescue owners defense.. She was just walking into the office and as soon as it happened she moved the dog outside. She seems like a nice lady and I can only assume she thought her explanation would suffice... Hopefully she learned to be more forceful. 

It's true that you have to predetermine to be basically rude to people. No. Period. Don't touch. 

But to the op...We all notice how many people are out there who have absolutely no idea how their dog is responding to a situation? Not talking about just the head tappers but dogs that are displaying lots of behavior and the people are clueless....Just go to any dog park and watch the moms sipping latte while the dogs "play"


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

People are people....idiots.

Last weekend I'm visiting and sitting on the stoop with a friend with my male laying in front just scoping things out.
Now he doesn't even (rarely) appreciate pets from me, under the chin, beside his face, over his head or behind the ears. It doesn't really matter, but he appreciates it even less from a stranger.

Nieghbor comes into the yard....first thing I say is, don't pet the dog, (while he's social, he doesn't like petting). But you'd think don't pet the dog would be enough...nooooo. 
My next comment is 'Jesus Christ, ahem and something or another...or another.' 

Guess what? Now I get a lecture on biblical studies and adherence to said studies.
I've made another enemy in the world.
Oh hum.


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## Kara Fitzpatrick (Dec 2, 2009)

ugh, so annoying. 

it amazes me that people can't read the simplest dog behaviors. 

My female isn't a huge fan of getting attention from strangers- she'll tolerate it, but usually just ignores other people. 

People will come up without even asking and start patting her hard and getting in her face- and she clearly is giving them the eye and does not want to be petted, and they just continue. People even let their children randomly come up and hug her. wtf??? 

i could see if the dog is wiggling, wanting to meet you, pulling on the leash (my lab is like that), 
but to come up to a malinois or doberman you don't know, that clearly does not want to meet people?... I just don't get it.


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Dave Colborn said:


> Why would someone mistake my property for theirs and attempt to force themselves said property. I don't care about my dogs body language. I want people to stay away from me and my dog. I am enjoying my dogs company. Maybe they should have the courtesy to ask me if it's okay, because the dog is mine. Especially in today's litigious society.
> 
> .


My point was that if people took the time to understand dog body language and behaviour they would perhaps not be inclined to rush up and pat dogs on the head. Which is what I think Don was alluding to - the lack of dog savviness even among peple whio have had dogs as pets.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Original post


> You ever been talking to someone that tells you they love dogs and have been around them all their lives......while they keep banging the top of the dogs head withn the palm of their hand like they are trying to kill a tick or something. Been around dogs all their lives and don't have a clue how to even pet a dog??? Or, is this just how some people show affection.....like an android. Seems to me they are mighty uncomfortable with dogs.





Sara Waters said:


> My point was that if people took the time to understand dog body language and behaviour they would perhaps not be inclined to rush up and pat dogs on the head. Which is what I think Don was alluding to - the lack of dog savviness even among peple whio have had dogs as pets.


Actually, I didn't allude to anything but the way some people keep whacking the dog on top of the head as if the dog is supposed to be enjoying it. Never said they were not supposed to pet the dog or it was in public etc....just that it is a peculiar way to pet a dog and wondered if it was just me because the people don't know how to pet a dog. I have come real close to reachng over and doing it to them to see if they think it is soothing.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Original post
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It took me three reads to get the whole patting thing on your first post. But I agree with you. The written word is not my strong suit today I guess. pat pat.


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## Dave Colborn (Mar 25, 2009)

Sara Waters said:


> My point was that if people took the time to understand dog body language and behaviour they would perhaps not be inclined to rush up and pat dogs on the head. Which is what I think Don was alluding to - the lack of dog savviness even among peple whio have had dogs as pets.



My point is if they took the time to grow some manners, they wouldn't think of entering my personal bubble to pet MY dog. If I have an unmuzzled honey badger, will they be so quick? Probably. And honey badger don't give a shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

"Little does the honey badger know, FYI...it's been stung!" 

One of my all time favorite Youtube videos...


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## Sara Waters (Oct 23, 2010)

Dave Colborn said:


> My point is if they took the time to grow some manners, they wouldn't think of entering my personal bubble to pet MY dog. If I have an unmuzzled honey badger, will they be so quick? Probably. And honey badger don't give a shit.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg


Sure I agree with you on that.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Don Turnipseed said:


> ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
> 
> I am sorry I brought it up. I don't care if people walk up and pet what dog, I was wondering if I am the only one that finds slapping the dog repeatedly on top pf the head an odd way to show affection to a dog. Do they think dogs enjoy that?


They don't think- same people let their kids "hug" strange dogs then wonder why the kids get bit.

We did a SAR demo where immediately before our demo a bite dog did a demo. You would think the little gears "dog have teeth" would turn on.

The kids rushed my little GSD after that and not a parent in sight to control their kids who thought all parts of the dog's body were fair to grab and touch. Dog was bombproof but I promised her I would not put her through that again.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Before I move a few yrs ago I used to walk across the old Chain of Rocks bridge over the Mississippi with my dogs. That and a bike path is all it's used for now.
I actually let a kid (8-9 yrs old) pet my dogs when he walked up and said "My mom said I could ask you if I could pet your dogs". 
Mom was right behind him and I was happy to oblige. He put his hand out, palm down and let the dog's smell it first. Then he scratched both behind the ear. 
Little shit even said "thank you sir". 
I was very impressed.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> Original post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This made me think of when I was at agricultural college many moons ago.....someone explained/showed me how to 'pet' a bull, just slap it on the head in much the way Don describes...I never got it, not to this day, I still don't get it at all. Who or what would enjoy getting a good slap on the head for any reason resembling affection ??


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

That's weird, we were taught scratch them under the chin or the jaw since that's how they groom each other. Having had my fingers almost crunched by a big nasty Charolais's head trying to read his ear tattoo for a pre-breeding evaluation, I usually stay away from their head altogether. ;-)


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> That's weird, we were taught scratch them under the chin or the jaw since that's how they groom each other. Having had my fingers almost crunched by a big nasty Charolais's head trying to read his ear tattoo for a pre-breeding evaluation, I usually stay away from their head altogether. ;-)


You obviously didn't try the head slap first :-k :grin:.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I think my attending would have slapped me in the head if he saw me smacking a 2000+ lbs unhappy bovine. :grin:


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## Laney Rein (Feb 9, 2011)

Don - I think the slapping comes from people thinking that's the only way an animal can feel the communication - the harder you slap the more you like. We see it all the time in horses, too. So many people pound on the horse's forehead or neck to show approval after a great performance or affection. You will see over time, the animal defer or veer away when they see a hand coming. It seems the bigger the person, the harder they slap, too. So maybe, while they've had dogs all their life, they've never gone any further than having "pet" dogs and have not been educated or desired to learn anything about dogs and their behavior.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

LOL, a horse can feel a fly and shake the one muscle needed where the fly is. Always amazed me.


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