# Dearest Jeff:



## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

my dog is blowing coat again (first time in march, now this:-( ); he's really coming along in his "stand" training. and the birds love the hair.

seriously (anyone), in working with him on "bring heir" : throw the ball, he brings it all the way to me, spits it for the food treat, then i pick up the ball and throw it again.

i think i'm marking the "bring heir" badly somehow (or god forbid he's got me figured out), b/c if i don't treat him when he gets to me, he turns away w/the ball. i was trying to go to random treats--perhaps too soon?

previously, w/out treats, he would bring the ball *somewhere*, *kinda* close, but w/treats has suddenly had an epiphany about how close "bring heir" means. also, ignoring him when he returns the item too far away will usually result in him bringing it and dropping it on my foot, or shoving it into the back of my knees, or something else blatantly "here it is".

help?? :sad: 

(another example for new ppl: leave yourself open to be called names--doesn't matter if you get some good ideas )


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

!!!DEAREST JEFF!!!
Dern, Ann!
The guys got some good info but he's probably on the floor curled up in a catatonic, fetal position after doing that to him! :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> he's probably on the floor curled up in a catatonic, fetal position after doing that to him! :lol:


That works...... :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Get a flexie with the longest line. Toss ball as before. When he comes back, he needs to sit in front of you, and STAY. Take ball, mark it and then treat it.

I think you were saying something about the ball being on the ground. He needs to give you the ball. The flexie will help because it self retracts, and you can put the block on the ignoring and running off.

Sorry no one else answered.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

so he already knows "come heir" means to front, sit, as close as he can get (i move back if he stops w/out his snout in my (sorry--but i'm tall and that's just where it ends up. 

anyway, the *come* heir vs the *bring* heir. sounds like i need to back-chain (Bob and Connie), cause he eats flexies-one chew and another $30 down the drain. 

so, plan "B" Jeff? or anyone?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I think it helps a lot if you train that last step (handing you the ball) separately.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Ann, we posted together. :lol:

Yes, indeed -- backchaining is the word, and I think it's what you want here.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

OK, so I will ask some questions. Here means to come and sit in front of you, so bring isn't a command by itself and has to have the here???

What is up with the flexie chewing???? That should be corrected, as for this exersize it really is handy.

Have you tried a ball on a string and a short throw, say 5 ft.??

Does he know a hold command???

Can you when he is squirrely get any sort of control on him ie, backing up and repeating the command???

Do you know anything of the forced retrieve techniques????


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> OK, so I will ask some questions. Here means to come and sit in front of you, so bring isn't a command by itself and has to have the here????


Good point.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> OK, so I will ask some questions. Here means to come and sit in front of you, so bring isn't a command by itself and has to have the here???
> 
> What is up with the flexie chewing???? That should be corrected, as for this exersize it really is handy.
> 
> ...


ok, let me try this one at a time. dearest jeff..this is where i love this forum.

"here"--(don't make fun of me too much): "come heir" means "front and sit"--which he does quite well. 

"bring" heir, when he's bringing an *item* to me, well, for some reason i thought he could distinguish between "come" and "bring", but get that "heir" meant "to me" regardless of whether he had an item or not. 

i'm confusing him aren't i? heck i'm confusing myself...:sad: but he knows "get the ball" and "where's the ball?"--he'll go get it, and "bring it here", then either spit it for the treat or turn away.

we won't go into the flexie deal again.

I'm working with him on a "take" command, where-in he will take and hold an *item* (usually a shank bone--should i work on a ball also?). he will "take" it and actually hold it calmly for a short (seconds) period of time.

when i have the ball or what ever, and back up with the "heir", he gets right up close and personal--jumps from a sit to a closer sit.

how should i utilize a ball on a string and a short line? help me here (heir-ha ha)..

and, i don't think it's time to go to a forced retrieve for a couple of reasons, the first being that i want to try motivational techniques first, the second being that if i can't (and i'm sure i can) teach him this w/out force, then i'm not smart enough to teach it to him using force. 

the problem is, he's really smart, and i'm simply not communicating precisely enough...:sad:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

QUOTE: i'm confusing him aren't i? heck i'm confusing myself... but he knows "get the ball" and "where's the ball?"-- END

Heck, you're confusing ME. :lol:


I'd probably start over with a new command, like maybe just "bring."

"Give" or "bring" can be shaped by the dog first nosing at the toy, then touching it, then mouthing it, then picking it up, then putting it into my hand..... you see where I'm going with this? :lol:

And that's where I would start -- with that picking-it-up and putting it into my hand.

He already knows "get the toy," so you don't need to think about that right now. It's the other part you might want to concentrate on for now, without throwing it. 

JMO...... this is what I did with the dumbell with mine, even including the little dog (with a tiny dumbell that Bob told me about).

I taught "hold" the same way, gradually extending the time he holds it.

I hope this is what you're asking. 

I am sure you'll get help from others, too.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I use heir and bring as the same command, but there is a difference. Heir means come in front sit, Bring means come in front sit with an object that I've thrown or pointed out to him.

After tracking he goes and brings my tracking flag. I never go get it, he does.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

(with a tiny dumbell that Bob told me about)
Connie, don't make fun of your Pug like that!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> (with a tiny dumbell that Bob told me about)
> Connie, don't make fun of your Pug like that!


[-X 

I'm telling on you! :lol:

BTW, if I can train a Pug to "bring" that tiny dumbell......

Well, I'll just say that it brought me to a whole new appreciation of the GSD's trainability.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

My original training mentor has a Pug with a UD. Scores in the high 90s also. I have no doubt she'll get a OTCH on the Pug. Rescue Pug, BTW.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> My original training mentor has a Pug with a UD. Scores in the high 90s also. I have no doubt she'll get a OTCH on the Pug. Rescue Pug, BTW.


Well, since mine is a rescue Pug too, I should be able to do the same thing! :lol:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Well, since mine is a rescue Pug too, I should be able to do the same thing! :lol:


I talked with her today at the  OB trial. Her Pug has 4 points towards it's OTCH!


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