# what are you feeding your working dog?



## Sarah Atlas

I feed raw but must add some kibble as i can't carry raw on deployment.
Have been feeding Chicken Soup for the past several years with great results. I was wondering if anyone has used orien ? results?. what are you all feeding?


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## Connie Sutherland

Sarah Atlas said:


> I feed raw but must add some kibble as i can't carry raw on deployment.
> Have been feeding Chicken Soup for the past several years with great results. I was wondering if anyone has used orien ? results?. what are you all feeding?



Sarah, there's no need for this size font ... unless you are vision-impaired ... and it makes a thread pages and pages long. Don't worry about Bob ... we read it to him through his ear-piece.

Have you considered THK with meat added?


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## Bob Scott

I heard that! :lol:


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## kristin tresidder

LOL!


i feed the diamond natural extreme athelete to some, and raw to others. i have been more than pleased with the D.E.A. food though - esp for dogs with high metabolisms - so far as i know, it's the highest protein/fat commercial food available. there's also no wheat or corn:
http://diamondpet.com/products/diamond_naturals/dogs/dry_food/extreme_athlete/


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## Jennifer Coulter

I feed raw but have used Orijen for month long trips out east that I do yearly.

Do has no issues switching over. Dog liked it just fine, didn't notice any difference in the dog in the month he was on it, except that he shit more and drank more water


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## milder batmusen

I feed my dogs with raw food with alot of different meat types an bones


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## David Frost

I feed Nutro. Have for years. We have an assortment of Labs, GSD's Mals a couple of Goldens and a couple of Lab-look-alikes. Coats are good, plenty of energy, no problems with any type of allergies. While there may be better foods out there, it has served our unit well.

DFrost


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## Adam Rawlings

David Frost said:


> I feed Nutro. Have for years.
> 
> DFrost


 I fed my last GSD Nutro for 13 years without any issues. We put him to sleep because he was losing his mind. My current GSD, seems to have a mild grain allergy and I switched him to raw about a year ago.


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## Michele Fleury

I feed raw and occasionallyadd a smal amount of kibble for the same reason you do. I rotate between grain free versions of Orijen, Innove EVO, Wellness Core, and Solid Gold.


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## leslie cassian

I feed Orijen to my Malinois The high protein/no grain formula seems to really agree with his metabolism and his weight is good. The pupppy is also on Orijen.


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## Maren Bell Jones

kristin tresidder said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> i feed the diamond natural extreme athelete to some, and raw to others. i have been more than pleased with the D.E.A. food though - esp for dogs with high metabolisms - so far as i know, it's the highest protein/fat commercial food available. there's also no wheat or corn:
> http://diamondpet.com/products/diamond_naturals/dogs/dry_food/extreme_athlete/


EVO and other similar grain frees are about the highest % protein I've come across at around 42-43% by dry matter, which is higher by about 10%. And if people want truly low carb, it's there at 15% (EVO Red Meat) and 12% (EVO Original) respectively. That's about as low as you can go for a kibble because otherwise there has to be a way to glue the kibble together when it's mostly meats. 

As for me, my dogs get:

-Fawkes (2 year old Malinois): 1 cup EVO original or EVO Red Meat and 1 cup Innova Large Breed
-Lily (4 year old Malinois): 2 cups EVO original
-Elsa (9 year old Rottweiler): 1 cup EVO original, 1 cup California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato
-Zoso (4 year old Malinois/GSD): 1 cup EVO Red Meat, 1 cup Innova Large Breed
-Buck (12 year old Siberian husky/Rottweiler): 3/4 cup California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato, 3/4 cup Innova Senior Plus

Plus a few raw meaty recreational bones a week for their teeth, usually lamb neck and leg bones but other stuff too. They got chicken necks/backs from the 4th of July pasture raised birds this week that I barbequed, mmmmm mmmm!


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## Connie Sutherland

_California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato_



Just discovered this and recommended it for a sensitive-stomach senior who was doing poorly on red meats and whose owner was concerned about an all-poultry diet.

Now he is using this for variety. Nice ingredient list.


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## David Stucenski

Wellness CORE Ocean Formula..5yr old Mal poice dog.


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## Connie Sutherland

David Stucenski said:


> Wellness CORE Ocean Formula..5yr old Mal poice dog.



That is another one that I know folks using it for variety along with a lamb or poultry formula. Also, a good ingredient list. JMHO.


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## Jason Fox

Taste of The Wild - for both my year old and 4 year old Dutch Shepherds.

Website


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## Mario Fernandez

I don't have the freezer space that I use to anymore to feed raw...

My GSD I feed Abady.. My two ABs age 7 &11 both are not as active anymore ...they will get some Abady from time to time... but mainly CA Nat.l Herring & Sweet Potato or Innova Senior Plus. All dogs will get some Chicken backs or 3/4 or veggies/fruit once a week. 

Anybody try Blackwoods 5000, my friend has started and loves it ...catfish meal.


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## Michelle Reusser

RAW, Orijen, California Naturals. I mix and match depending on how the dogs look. They all eat whatever is is I put down of the 3. No problems turning their nose up to kibble after days on RAW or vice versa.

I have actually been too broke to feed RAW the past few months but bought some today to make up for the fact they all had to eat Chicken Soup for a couple months due to my brokeness. CSFTPLS is the absolute lowest quality food I will feed period. I feel much better having bags of Orijen and Cal Naturals in the garage again.


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## Selena van Leeuwen

1/2 kibble and 1/2 raw (pre made commercial mix/ green tripe/ red meat/chicken backs) for the adults, puppies and young dogs 'till about 9 mo. raw


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## Geoff Empey

When I'm trailing or training out of town. I can use Orijen in a pinch. But I prefer to use NRG http://www.nrgpetproducts.com/ which is a dehydrated RAW and is pretty close in nutritional value to the ground chicken carcasses and veggie mix that I normally feed my bitch.


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## Anne Vaini

When I use kibble, I feed NutriSource Super Performance. I just found this food recently and my dogs are switching onto it now.

http://www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/products/super_performance 

It's not fabulous, but it is an excellent value. It has the highest energy density I could find (higher than Evo Red Meat). My hard keeper is actually maintaining her weight!


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## Megan Bays

I just switched to TOTW, I'm on my second bag and so far so good. I'm feeding the Pacific Stream formula right now.

With feeding grain free will that reduce the amount of "waste" from the dogs? I've read somewhere that TOTW is supposed to reduce their poop (that's not the reason I'm feeding it, but if it does there's another perk), has anyone experienced this? 

I know that feeding RMBs will, but wasn't sure about some kibble.


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## Connie Sutherland

Megan McCallister said:


> ... With feeding grain free will that reduce the amount of "waste" from the dogs?


Yes, it will. Just as with people, part of grains in not digestible and ends up bulking up the poop. 

It's insoluble fiber.


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## Megan Bays

Thanks for the info Connie.


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## Faisal Khan

My older GSD was on Canidae ALS and doing great, then we switched to TOTW (when Canidae changed formulas and -ve reviews came out). Stayed on TOTW for 6-8 months with good results but more poop as compared to Canidae! Lately went back to Canidae and dog prefers it over TOTW and pops are relatively smaller again (did not experience any -ve impacts of formula change that many people did). 4 mo old GSD pup is on raw/Canidae mix.


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## Sanda Stankovic

i feed raw. found it to be good for dogs and also for their poops lol.. If they require higher fat intake i up the amount of fat I give them (for example, they get whole hearts). So I feed lamb hearts, checken necks/frames whatever veges/fruit are around and eggs and throw in a bit of pasta (if I can be bothered I boil quite a bit and then just freeze that also). Hearts are also good for freezing, are not bulky like frames so I can buy lots at once and freeze. Also although it looks grouse I sometimes get the whole heart-liver-lung part and give that to dogs sometimes like a bit of a treat. They love it although lung has a bit of weird texture to them at first. 

I also have been experimenting with how well they handle milk and it seems good so far.


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## vincent demaio

Megan McCallister said:


> I just switched to TOTW, I'm on my second bag and so far so good. I'm feeding the Pacific Stream formula right now.
> 
> With feeding grain free will that reduce the amount of "waste" from the dogs? I've read somewhere that TOTW is supposed to reduce their poop (that's not the reason I'm feeding it, but if it does there's another perk), has anyone experienced this?
> 
> I know that feeding RMBs will, but wasn't sure about some kibble.[/quottotw
> 
> 
> just switched to totw from the grain free solid gold for my ebd,i supplement raw once a week for her.. the mali pup has never had anything but raw,,


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## vincent demaio

Megan McCallister said:


> I just switched to TOTW, I'm on my second bag and so far so good. I'm feeding the Pacific Stream formula right now.
> 
> With feeding grain free will that reduce the amount of "waste" from the dogs? I've read somewhere that TOTW is supposed to reduce their poop (that's not the reason I'm feeding it, but if it does there's another perk), has anyone experienced this?
> 
> I know that feeding RMBs will, but wasn't sure about some kibble.


oh yea,,definately less poop wih totw..


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## Courtney Guthrie

I feed Diamond Naturals EA and Solid Gold Puppy 3 days a week. RAW 4 days a week. 

Judge- GSD- gets RAW 4 days a week, 2 days a week 4 cups DNEA and 2 cups SGP. 

Red-AST/APBT- gets 2 cups SGP 6 days a week. 

I fast my dogs once a week. 

Courtney


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## susan tuck

Whole lamb necks, pork necks, venison necks, chicken frames/necks, organ meats, beef heart, chicken feet, tripe, whole fish and canned mackeral. Vit E and Salmon Oil


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## Cheri Thrower

I feed my 7 1/2 month old Doberman pup Go Natural kibble and raw bones.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

I guess I am the only one feeding Kirkland Chicken & Rice as kibble and 2-4 days weeks they eat raw meaty bones, chicken quarters, backs, necks etc (really any raw that I can find cheap). I also feed fish pretty regularly. Some times it is old Halibut, Ling Cod, Salmon (what ever has been in the freezer for too long). I have fed Cariboo, Moose, and Bear as well. The guys my husband works with always donate their old meat to my dogs during hunting season.

The AB's eat 1.5 c 2 x per day (kibble), or about .75# of raw per meal (when I feed raw they only eat 1x per day).

The GSD gets 2c 2x per day or 1# of raw. 

I also supplement with alfalfa tablets 3-4 each, flax seed oil 1300mg, and avoderm skin and coat booster (1 TBSN daily).

I occationally feed boiled potatoes, oat meal, shredded vegi (I use a food processor and make up about 10# at a time). They also eat out left over salad/ vegis every morning following dinner.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Julie Ann Alvarez said:


> I have fed Cariboo, Moose, and Bear as well.


Just a heads up, bear meat often has Trichinella in the muscle meat. 



> In wild animals, _Trichinella_ infection rates vary from region to region and seem to *increase in colder climates.* Foxes, wolves and *bears have the highest infection rates*, but small mammals such as skunks, raccoons and rats provide the highest risk to infecting the domestic pig.


From the USDA: http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_fsheet.php?product_id=52

The difference in Trichinella in swine (T. spiralis) is that you can usually kill them if the meat is frozen for 3+ weeks. The species of Trichinella in bear, mountain lion, etc meat can still be alive after 2 years (!!!) of freezing. So if you feed bear or other predator meat, make sure it's cooked first. ;-)


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## Adam Rawlings

Damn, my dog eats alot compared to many of yours. 6 cups of kibble or 4 pounds of raw per day.


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## Connie Sutherland

Adam Rawlings said:


> Damn, my dog eats alot compared to many of yours. 6 cups of kibble or 4 pounds of raw per day.


100+ pound high-activity dog?


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## Adam Rawlings

96 pounds and yes very active. If I feed him any less than that he starts looking like a bag of bones.


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## Connie Sutherland

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Just a heads up, bear meat often has Trichinella in the muscle meat.
> 
> From the USDA: http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_fsheet.php?product_id=52
> 
> The difference in Trichinella in swine (T. spiralis) is that you can usually kill them if the meat is frozen for 3+ weeks. The species of Trichinella in bear, mountain lion, etc meat can still be alive after 2 years (!!!) of freezing. So if you feed bear or other predator meat, make sure it's cooked first. ;-)


I read some study saying that even 0 temp freezing for 21 days was not sufficient to kill trich in predator meat. It was done on polar bears and extrapolated, but it's good enough for me. :lol:

And I'd guess that many home freezers are nowhere near that low.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Our parasitology professor pointed out a report or two in the literature in class about the 24+ month thing in the Trichinella species in bear meat where it was an actual number and not extrapolated. Definitely good for me! Also mentioned improper cooking (like dehydrating jerky at inadequate temperatures) also is problematic as there have been case reports of that too. One notably of a hunter who passed around cougar jerky to his friends, who came down with trichinellosis. Careful with the cougar jerky, kids!


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## Julie Ann Alvarez

Yep you have to cook bear. It is nasty stuff my dogs will not eat it raw (I tried once -they pee'd on it). 

They don't care for some of the cariboo either. I think some of it is very gamey. At any rate of you cook it with garlic powder they will eat it or you can trick them into eating it.


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## Don Turnipseed

I hand feed 300 lbs of raw chicken, legs and thighs, and free feed 650 lbs of meat based kibble a mo. Summertime is a pain as I have to take the skin off of the chicken to keep the dogs from getting fat. In the winter, they do fine with it left on. Certain dogs get Folic acid and B-12, some get ester C and some get flax oil. It is a general pain in the ass. I have two fingers scabbed and swoll up from not moving fast enough yesterday while handing out the chicken.


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## Josh Queen

Diamond 60+ for my Schutzhund American Bulldog. No corn, no wheat, no fillers!


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## Adi Ibrahimbegovic

Raw meat - whole chicken cut up, chicken legs, chicken drumsticks, chicken necks, chicken liver and gizzards, turkey necks, turkey legs (his favorite), beef cut up, beef marrow bone as a snack (his second favorite, cut up in 3 pieces, given semi frozen - the dog is "gone" in the backyard for 2 hours solid (all one hears is slurping, gnawing and other assorted sounds).

I used to add copious amounts of raw garlic to his food when he was younger (I am talking A LOT of garlic as I love it too), good to get rid of fleas or to keep them off as they hate it. He was a walking garlic breathing machine, now I add less.

Raw eggs, 2 times a week (shell crushed and all), plain yoghurt sprinkled over meal.

When travelling or away from home, he gets Solid Gold kibble food with yoghurt over it or a can of tuna fish dumped on it.

He will occasionaly enjoy apple skin cut up, junk food leftovers maybe once a month, chicken broth with rice.

His absolute favorite dessert in Texas summer heat - Ice cubes made out of chicken broth frozen solid, his ice cream treats...

the dog is GSD, currently 18 months old and very active 2 to 3 hours a day.


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## Andrew Rowley

Use to feed my gun dogs kibble such as Arden Grange. My schutzhund rott had real gut problems on it so i looked into raw and never gone back.
Raw chicken wings, backs, minced beef, lamb, tripe, organs, fish, veg, BMB's. Once you get the nack of preping it and a routine its easy. (Thanks to the Leerburg folks for all advice).


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## Anne Jones

I feed a homemade raw diet that consists of a large varity of muscle meats, organ meats, veggies, raw meaty bones, salmon oil , probiotics, vit E, vit C, alfafa, kelp, fish(mackeral, sardines) eggs, & salt free cottage cheese. I think that is everything.


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## mike suttle

wow, I guess I am really a bad dog dad compared to you guys! I only feed my dogs 4 cups of dry kibble (Redpaw 32% protien, 20% fat) and that's it. The only dogs that get raw food in my kennel is pregnant / whelping bitches and baby puppies. They get a variety of ground beef, deer and chicken, with a little cottage cheese each day. Everyone else eats about 2000lbs of dry food per month.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

You are not alone, I feed Pro Plan. Now that there is a butcher close enough, they get bones here and there.


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## Keith Jenkins

Feed ProPlan also and have for years...all my dogs do fine on the food. I give meat and eggs a few times a week also.


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## mike suttle

I also used to feed Pro Plan, and it worked very well. The only reason that i switched is becasue RedPaw will deliver a pallet right to my door. With Pro Plan I was always driving to buy it and the feed stores never had enough for me. I could not get it delivered to my location, so I switched to Red Paw (which I also really like) I feed just over one pallet a month, so for me it is also about using what is easy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I got enough to think about in life. LOL I have often wondered why people would get that carried away for a scavenger.

My day job on the days I wasn't bartending down in south beach was working at a pet supermarket. We recommended dog food based solely on what the reps were giving free. LOL

If a rep came up lame, we would sell other shit to get him back on track.

In Denver we were using "black gold" at the kennel, and it was a small company, 21 bucks ( pallet price) and 50 pounds a bag. It was for the longest time never more than a week or two old when we got it, and the dogs were stupid hyper with energy on it.

One time we got two pallets in the winter, and the middle ones were still hot it was so fresh. How cool is that ??


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## Connie Sutherland

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You are not alone, I feed Pro Plan. Now that there is a butcher close enough, they get bones here and there.



The store with the butcher counter is three blocks away and I would have to actually get into the car and drive to buy commercial dog food.

Now you all know the secret reason for my gung-ho raw attitude. :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland

Andrew Rowley said:


> Use to feed my gun dogs kibble such as Arden Grange. My schutzhund rott had real gut problems on it so i looked into raw and never gone back.
> Raw chicken wings, backs, minced beef, lamb, tripe, organs, fish, veg, BMB's. Once you get the nack of preping it and a routine its easy. (Thanks to the Leerburg folks for all advice).


I agree that there's a steep curve, but a very fast one (maybe a couple weeks). Now that I have done raw for years, it takes me very little time. What's BMB?


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## mike suttle

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I got enough to think about in life. LOL I have often wondered why people would get that carried away for a scavenger.
> 
> My day job on the days I wasn't bartending down in south beach was working at a pet supermarket. We recommended dog food based solely on what the reps were giving free. LOL
> 
> If a rep came up lame, we would sell other shit to get him back on track.
> 
> In Denver we were using "black gold" at the kennel, and it was a small company, 21 bucks ( pallet price) and 50 pounds a bag. It was for the longest time never more than a week or two old when we got it, and the dogs were stupid hyper with energy on it.
> 
> One time we got two pallets in the winter, and the middle ones were still hot it was so fresh. How cool is that ??


Funny that you would mention "Black Gold". I tried one pallet of it last summer here. It was 1/2 the cost of Red Paw so I figured I'd try it. What a ****ing mess! The dogs had explosive diarreah and many of them were actually vomiting. Anyway I stopped using it and the Black Gold folks bought the rest of the food back from me with no questions asked.
I switched back to Red Paw and within 24 hours the stool and the dogs were all back to normal. I can switch to any other brand of food and have no problems, but that Black Gold shit was a HUGE disaster for me here.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Never had that problem, but **** them then. 

I used to get Diamond back in the day by driving the truck down to the plant and filling up trash cans with it. Worked great loved it ect ect and then Boom, had the same thing you were talking about minus the vomiting.

Guess they were a "Low bid" style dog food, and the ingredients changed. If it had passed in a few days I would have kept feeding it. **** that though. Nasty smell coming out of them.

I am sure nowdays a vet would have tried to claim parvo. LOL


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## Anne Jones

I'm with Connie. I've fed raw for 6 years (my dogs have never had kibble, were weaned onto raw by their breeders) & it is no big deal to doing it. A little more planning then opening a bag, but once you get in the swing of it, it is easy to do. I would never feed my dogs kibble. They best part is having my dogs really LOVE what they are eating. Also, it is really not much different in cost from a very high end kibble. I buy most of my food from a restraunt wholesaler & maybe it is even cheaper then kibble for the prices that I can get.


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## Nicole Stark

My current dog doesn't work in the same context as it's used here, but she does get worked fairly extensively.

I feed raw, Solid Gold Barking at the Moon kibble, canned tripe, and dip net hooligan or trade out for wild caught fish or pheasant. 

Jeff you asked earlier why people would go to such lengths to feed a scavenger. I cannot speak for anyone else but my former breed of choice had a lot of health related issues, primarily bloat and HD. I either had the choice to switch breeds or work with what I had. 

So I figured out a way to make it work through diet, supplements, and conditioning. This extra effort has afforded me the benefit of being able to keep my dogs a part of my life and take them places most people only dream of seeing or going to. 

That said, even though I am changing breeds I won't be altering how I feed my new dog.


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## Andrew Rowley

Connie Sutherland said:


> I agree that there's a steep curve, but a very fast one (maybe a couple weeks). Now that I have done raw for years, it takes me very little time. What's BMB?


bmb=big meaty bones. My butcher is great and gives me huge cow bones with lots of meat left on them for free.:razz:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Jeff you asked earlier why people would go to such lengths to feed a scavenger. I cannot speak for anyone else but my former breed of choice had a lot of health related issues, primarily bloat and HD. I either had the choice to switch breeds or work with what I had. 

Or just kill the damn thing off. No way I am gonna think that much to keep a shitter alive.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Baloney, mustard and orange juice...natures perfect food.


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## mike suttle

I really like a dog that is a bit of a trash compacter myself. I feed what is the easiest and most convienient while still providing them with a good balanced diet with plenty of fat and protien.
If I ever win the lottery and can get out of the dog business all together, then I will feed Arko a raw diet because he will be my only dog, but for now since I am feeding about 40 dogs today, they will eat something from a bag that is delivered to my kennel on a pallet. 
It is not that I am lazy, or too cheap to buy the extra freezers, (ok, well maybe it is)


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## Gerry Grimwood

mike suttle said:


> If I ever win the lottery and can get out of the dog business all together, then I will feed Arko a raw diet because he will be my only dog


What's stopping you from doing that now, He's your main studdog right ?


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## mike suttle

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What's stopping you from doing that now, He's your main studdog right ?


Yes, he is my main stud dog. But he is not working anymore and he does great on the RedPaw that I am feeding him now. I like the idea of feeding the entire kennel the same diet. I can take 14 dogs on the road with me and no matter which 14 dogs I am traveling with I take a bag of food and dont worry about it. 
When I only have one dog I will go back to a raw diet, mostly for the peace of mind that it provides due to everyone in the world now saying that dog food will kill your dog. LOL


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## Gerry Grimwood

mike suttle said:


> When I only have one dog I will go back to a raw diet, mostly for the peace of mind that it provides due to everyone in the world now saying that dog food will kill your dog. LOL


:lol: Aint that the truth, I like the way you think.


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## Nicole Stark

It's not that much work to forage for my dogs food. I spent an hour dip netting one day this summer to collect about 600 fish. I was out with my dog and husband doing one of the things I enjoy most - being out in nature. 

The trading just comes along with the fact that I live in AK and so freezer burnt game is often readily available. Julie's post (whose also from AK) was very similar to mine likely for the same reason - it's plentiful and cheap (read free) to feed this way. Simple fact of the matter is there's no arguing feeding raw, whole foods is a more optimal way to feed a human or animal. Some choose to, some don't. Just the way it is. I don't argue for or against either. I see no reason to.

That aside, like most of you I also pick up dog food and while there add in some canned tripe for variety. I also feed AFS Majestic Raw - a pre made package that I simply purchase in bulk, thaw and scoop out with an ice cream scoop. I dumped the run off and all right into the bowl. Not much to it. All my scraps go to the dog and when I hit the grocery store and find something different to offer I pick it up.

It's far easier than people make it out to be and less expensive with a bit of effort given to find the right sources. For those of you who have multiple dogs the most obvious benefit is fewer vet bills and less shit to clean up. FAR less on both ends. For those with indoor pets, shedding and odor is also much improved generally classified as minimal. Those are just undisputed facts.

Most of my dogs outside of being spayed or x rayed don't have medical reasons to see a vet throughout their lifetime. With the exception of my last who needed to be re-x rayed and looked at because her TH was off, she was only at the vet once prior to get spayed, x rayed, and to have an elective gastropexy. That said, my vaccination protocol is also different than most as well and I do periodically fast my dogs.

Jeff, you'd have to see what my dogs do (aside from wearing that stupid hat or laying by a remembrance tree) to have a better appreciation for why I fed them the way I have. I do it for practical reasons, plain and simple. The other benefits are just a bonus as far as I am concerned. Some people might be surprised at what I've gotten my 100+ lb shitters to do and if the context of this forum is the only way a good dog can be validated for you, then all I can say is ain't that a shame.


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## Matt Grosch

Have been doing pro plan (sensitive skin and coat, made with salmon + oatmeal) for my AB, but am doing Origin (large breed puppy) for my Dutchie. I have to go to a shop owned by hippies, but it looks like the best food I can get in the specialty shop or anywhere else.


I havent started yet with him (AB has gotten it) but plan to add raw chicken, raw beef with bones, raw or boiled eggs with shell, yogurt and cottage cheese. Just wondering what is the best way to give healthy oil/fat (cod liver, olive oil, etc)


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## Konnie Hein

Jeff - I keep telling you that road kill is FREE. Cheaper than Pro Plan! 

Although, in Texas you'd probably have to pick it up right after it was killed or else you'd have to deal with some very stinky stuff.


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## Ashley Campbell

Konnie Hein said:


> Jeff - I keep telling you that road kill is FREE. Cheaper than Pro Plan!
> 
> Although, in Texas you'd probably have to pick it up right after it was killed or else you'd have to deal with some very stinky stuff.


Only if he can beat Ma and Pa Clampett to it...

I feed Kirkland Chicken and Rice to both my idiots. It's made by Diamond (almost identical to the Diamond Naturals line), just at a Costco price. Lacey gets about 4 cups a day since she can't seem to keep weight on, though she's not thin, and I give her leftovers from dinner except cooked bones.
Jasper (golden retriever) is overweight and gets half of what my GSD gets and no leftovers.


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## chris haynie

the only real work my dog does now is informal agility. well he comes to work with me everyday but other than pulling stuff around the shop and pulling the handtruck or cart on deliveries its not "work" for him. we do run everyday and i have some agility stuff in my backyard so he gets quite a workout everyday. 

i feed him a 75% or so raw diet. mostly chicken leg quaters for the RMB and MM, some ground beef heart or ground chuck for his mm, and either beef or chicken livers for his OM. Also feed alot of green tripe when i can get it. use a bit of chicken and turkey necks and backs for the RMB too. i only give him veggies because he likes them and he gets some tomatoes(raw), some sweet potatos(boiled) and some green or red peppers (raw) when they're comming out the garden. 

i keep him on a few kibble meals a week so he will still eat it when we travel. sometimes feeding RAW while traveling is either impractical, impossible, or just not cool with whomever we are travelling or staying with. the first time i threw my dog a chciken leg quarter at my grandmas house she had some choice words for me...he is only allowed to eat kibble there now. he gets a locally made grain free food called "Sammy Snacks". he is on the duck and potato formula now. he gets two meals a day and over the whole week he might get four kibble meals. somtimes we get EVO red meat or TOTW salmon. 

fortunately i have no kids or tons of other dogs to feed so i can keep on him the real good foods.


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## susan tuck

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I got enough to think about in life. LOL I have often wondered why people would get that carried away for a scavenger.
> quote]
> 
> Interestingly enough, many anthropologists believe early man was a scavenger. Modern homeless man also at times must resort to scavenging for food.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: 
Interestingly enough, many anthropologists believe early man was a scavenger. Modern homeless man also at times must resort to scavenging for food.

Duh, omnivore. I figure they can't train their dog for shit, so they talk about dumb shit like feeding it.


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## Connie Sutherland

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> .... I figure they can't train their dog for shit, so they talk about dumb shit like feeding it.


Well, as two of the most frequent dog-feeding-threads posters, I guess you and I must know whether that's true or not. :lol:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Yes, you encourage the little idiots though, and I tell them to shut the **** up and train.


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## Kadi Thingvall

I feed a combination of raw and kibble. The raw consists of chicken quarters (the leg/thigh), turkey necks/backs, pork neck bones, beef bones, trotters, beef cheeks, heart, liver, gizard, etc. Pretty much anything I can find in the store for a decent price, I've even fed pork snouts a few times LOL The kibble has also varied, sometimes I buy 10 bags at a time and get something like TOTW or Diamond Extreme Athlete, but then I will forget to reorder and the dogs will go back on the Kirkland, Pro Plan Performance, Kahoots or something similar. I used to feed Canidea a lot but the dogs didn't do so well on their new formula. I've tried quite a few other brands but either the dogs didn't do that well on them, or the dogs did just as well on something cheaper, so I couldn't justify the cost. I'm not paying $40 or $50/bag for food if I don't see any difference in my dogs between that food and a $25 or $30 bag


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## susan tuck

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote:
> Interestingly enough, many anthropologists believe early man was a scavenger. Modern homeless man also at times must resort to scavenging for food.
> 
> Duh, omnivore. I figure they can't train their dog for shit, so they talk about dumb shit like feeding it.


 
Wow, Jeff when are you going to quit that nasty habit of talking out of your ass and jumping to uninformed conclusions? A number of anthropoligists have determined by looking at the marks on bones that man in fact was an oportunistic scavenger. I said scavenger and I meant scavenger. Big difference between scavenger and omnivore - DUH!

Guess it's been a few years since you studied anthropology. Perhaps it's time you went back to school - bone up on modern theory, as it were. 

If you want to talk shit about me and my dog, I really don't care since you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Just you talking out of your ass again, no big deal. Now if you think I am going to sit here and play back and forth let's trade insults game of yours, you have another think coming. I know it's what you love to do, and you work real hard at being an asshole. Guess everyone has to be good at something.


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## todd pavlus

susan tuck said:


> Wow, Jeff when are you going to quit that nasty habit of talking out of your ass and jumping to uninformed conclusions? A number of anthropoligists have determined by looking at the marks on bones that man in fact was an oportunistic scavenger. I said scavenger and I meant scavenger. Big difference between scavenger and omnivore - DUH!
> 
> Guess it's been a few years since you studied anthropology. Perhaps it's time you went back to school - bone up on modern theory, as it were.
> 
> If you want to talk shit about me and my dog, I really don't care since you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Just you talking out of your ass again, no big deal. Now if you think I am going to sit here and play back and forth let's trade insults game of yours, you have another think coming. I know it's what you love to do, and you work real hard at being an asshole. Guess everyone has to be good at something.


 Didn't you know...In Jeff's profile it says Dog Enthusiast / Anthropologist / Asswipe


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## Don Turnipseed

I can't believe that it took an anthropologist to come to the conclusion that early man was a scavenger. Good grief, there weren't any local markets down on the corner. Even the movie producers had that figured out from the very first caveman movie. Is that really what they are teaching in school these days. What is unbelievable is that a study of that nature would impress anyone. Seems "common sense" would pretty much dictate they were scavengers. Probably when they dicovered they were better off working with dogs than fighting them over the same lizard or bush full of berries.


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## susan tuck

There is a very interesting book called "Man the Hunted" by Robert Sussman, which based on fossil evidence, puts forth a very convincing argument that early man, hominid, was not a hunter nor even really an omnivore, but was a prey animal and an opportunistic scavenger. 

I gotta say, life was a lot tougher back in the day!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol:


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## Sue Miller

I've fed exclusively raw since my adult dogs were around a year and a half old--I ground the raw. For the past 6 months lots of things going on & with a new puppy I didn't want to feed him raw just in case. So, we've been feeding Canadae ALS to all our dogs--I added PuppyGold the puppy's kibble. I have to say that all of them still look good, but they looked a lot better when they were eating raw. They don't look unhealthy, they just look less vibrant.

Just went to the vet last week & he said the puppy looked amazing & at 7-months-old is right where he should be. He said so far his body is perfect. Now that things are normal again, I'm going back to raw. The vet said that I should keep the puppy on kibble for a while longer. Does anyone have experience with raw feeding & puppies? Any advice appreciated.


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## Connie Sutherland

Sue Miller said:


> ... Just went to the vet last week & he said the puppy looked amazing & at 7-months-old is right where he should be. He said so far his body is perfect. Now that things are normal again, I'm going back to raw. The vet said that I should keep the puppy on kibble for a while longer. Does anyone have experience with raw feeding & puppies? Any advice appreciated.


How much have you read up on raw diets? Going raw (not the raw part, but the part about making up the proportions, etc.) is much more crucial to get right with a puppy than with an adult who is not laying down bone, growing teeth, and maturing internal organs ....

Feeding a puppy is not something to screw up. (I'm a big fan of fresh raw food, BTW, so I am not trying to say that raw is in any way inferior to commercial foods. I think it's far superior.)


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I used to bang this chick that was getting her PhD in Anthropology. I met a lot of her friends and proffessors. I have never met a bunch of people that couldn't figure the obvious in my life. It all goes back to write a book, and you are the expert.

Barwig had been doing Sch for less than a year when she started writing the book Schutzhund: Theory and methods. LOL

****ing followers. HA HA


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## Connie Sutherland

I've seen a few results of random diets fed to puppies. On this very board, in fact. Great example: meat with no bones. Any of the raw-feeding books written by vets with specialties in nutrition and other nutrition-degree folks would have avoided that. The very worst of them would have avoided that tragedy. (I don't use that word lightly. The first notice taken of that particular "diet" is often bones fracturing during normal play.) Not directed at you, Sue, at all -- just explaining why even vets who do favor a raw diet are often worried about a puppy's needs maybe not being met unless the diet is carefully done.


_"Barwig had been doing Sch for less than a year when she started writing the book Schutzhund: Theory and methods."_

Is that really true?


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## Connie Sutherland

susan tuck said:


> There is a very interesting book called "Man the Hunted" by Robert Sussman, which based on fossil evidence, puts forth a very convincing argument that early man, hominid, was not a hunter nor even really an omnivore, but was a prey animal and an opportunistic scavenger.
> 
> I gotta say, life was a lot tougher back in the day!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol:


No kidding.  No McDonald's dumpsters, either!


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## susan tuck

Connie Sutherland said:


> _"Barwig had been doing Sch for less than a year when she started writing the book Schutzhund: Theory and methods."_
> 
> Is that really true?


 
The original book was just an overview, a description of schutzhund. It was published in 1978, when not too many people had any clue what schutzhund was, schutzhund didn't even come to the USA until around 1969. :roll::roll:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I have read, and at one time had a copy of the original. There were maybe 12 pages added, and a pretty blue cover. The original was brown paperback. 

Not sure what you read, but after training with the people that showed her how to do it, I trust their story.


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## susan tuck

Maybe you need some ginkgo biloba. When the book was reworked and republished in 1991 it was with the addition of Stewart Hilliard as co-author, and at that point more actual instruction was added.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Or, you don't have the same book. The book I read, and then re-read at a friends house, is just about the same book.


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## Gillian Schuler

You never give up do you? May I ask why you had to re-read it?


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## susan tuck

Jeff I don't know what your point was in bringing up the book in the first place, or what your problem is with Susan Barwig. As far as your info about her only having been in schutzhund for 1 year at the time she wrote the first book, I think you are way off, especially since the first GSD she titled to a schH III was Albanza's Uriah back in 1977. 

I don't know anyone who reads or has that book, (or any book for that matter), and considers it to be the schutzhund bible. If anything, people have a soft spot for it because it was the first of it's kind in the USA. 

The original one from 1978 was NOT a training manual, it wasn't even titled as such, simply "schutzhund" as it was only meant to be an introduction, an overview, of the sport. I have the original too, Jeff. It's packed up, but I will be happy to look for it next time I go to our warehouse.


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## Connie Sutherland

Sue Miller said:


> ... Just went to the vet last week & he said the puppy looked amazing & at 7-months-old is right where he should be. He said so far his body is perfect. Now that things are normal again, I'm going back to raw. The vet said that I should keep the puppy on kibble for a while longer. Does anyone have experience with raw feeding & puppies? Any advice appreciated.


Have you read up on canine nutrition (critical for growing puppies)?


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## HappyMangle

Lately i've ordering only hills prescription diet. My both dogs have a sensitive stomachs these days and we stopped with the raw food for now. Before i gave them lots of meat, veggies, porridge. I also give them only dry snacks and probiotics twice a day (vet's recommendation)


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## HappyMangle

i never experiment with my dog's food, always ask professionals opinion


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