# Bleeding after spay? Any experience?



## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Andi was spayed last Friday (the 12th). She started to have this brownish vaginal discharge within a few hours of brinign her home. It looked like old blood. I called the vet back the next day and tey said it was normal since she'd recently had a litter.

Over the course of the last 6 days it progressed to dark red, started getting more profuse, and then late last night went to bright red. It was still bright red again this morning. She's discharging half dollar or bigger sized piles of thick, bright red blood every few hours.

I took her to the vet where they ran blood clotting tests, a CBC, and did x rays. They could't find anything wrong with her  . The vet decided to put her on a 10 day course of clavamox b/c she thinks it might be a localized infection (but dog has no temp, no green or white discharge, CBC is totally normal).

Any experience with this? I know most of you don't spay your dogs and I really didnt' want to do her, but it was a condition of her adoption. I just don't wanna wake up one morning to find my dog has bled out! Someone suggested to me that if any part of her ovaries or uterus was left behind that it can stimulate a false heat. Anyone?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Stacia Porter said:


> Andi was spayed last Friday (the 12th). She started to have this brownish vaginal discharge within a few hours of brinign her home. It looked like old blood. I called the vet back the next day and tey said it was normal since she'd recently had a litter.
> 
> Over the course of the last 6 days it progressed to dark red, started getting more profuse, and then late last night went to bright red. It was still bright red again this morning. She's discharging half dollar or bigger sized piles of thick, bright red blood every few hours.
> 
> ...


I always spay pet bitches. I have never had an experience like this. I would consider it serious enough to get a second opinion. JMO.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I always spay pet bitches. I have never had an experience like this. I would consider it serious enough to get a second opinion. JMO.


I'm thinking about it, too...It's just that EVERY bitch I've ever had spayed had some sort of wierd complication. My beagle had a severe allergic reaction to something used during the procedure and had red lines and swelling radiating from teh incicisoin within an hour of bringing her home and then went into convulsions! My brothers pug bitch was at the tail end of a heat cycle when hers wad done (at the end of week 4) and she had a severe behavioral swing: started to viciously attack other dogs nad people immediately following the surgery! Then it just suddenly disappeared. And now Andi! I don't have a good track record with this surgery...

I just can't understand why she's bleeding. And neither can the vet.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

From VetMedicine.about.com:

Ovariohysterectomy

What happens during the surgery? Your pet will be sedated and anesthetized so she won't feel any pain or be aware of what is happening. Her breathing and heart rate will be closely monitored by the veterinary staff. The surgeon makes a small incision on her abdomen (belly area) and removes the two ovaries and uterus, usually just above the cervix. All vessels and tissues are ligated (tied off) to prevent bleeding and lessen chances of post-operative bleeding or infection. Once the ovaries and uterus are removed, the surgeon begins the closure of the body wall and skin -- muscle, subcutaneous, and skin are sutured (stitched) back together. Your pet may have absorbable sutures, skin staples, or sutures visible in the skin that will need to be removed by your vet 10-14 days after surgery. END

The post-op bleeding you're seeing, bright red and with some clots, is *not* normal.

Is your dog at the vet hospital?

The vet thinks that a localized infection would produce "profuse" bleeding and regular passing of clots?

I'm not a health professional, but alarm bells are clanging in my head. Go with your gut. 

JMO.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Well, as you know, it's major surgery. I haven't experienced problems so far with any dog, but there certainly can be problems, just as with a human's ovariohysterectomy.

This sounds like a serious problem.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> From VetMedicine.about.com:
> 
> Ovariohysterectomy
> 
> ...


I haven't actually seen any clots, Connie. The dogs' home with me but being kept quiet in her crate. I originally thought what I was seeing was simply residual blood from the procedure. The fact that it's getting worse bothers me. I haven't seen any blood actually discharged since her first dose of antibiotics, though. She really doesn't seem unhappy, lethargic, or otherwise sick. She's eating, drinking, voiding, and eliminating just fine, she'll play with Achilles if I let her (which I'm not at this point). I just hate to drag everyone to another vet only to be told the exact same thing, KWIM?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

My mistake...... I re-read your post and realized that what I thought were clots were "piles" of blood......... I get you now.

Well, it would be a help to me, if I were trying to decide what to do, if the vet who prescribed the antibiotics would explain (just a phone call) how localized infection causes bleeding that's increasing in quantity (getting more profuse).

I do NOT mean this as a sarcastic thing. I'd want to know the mechanics of what the vet is saying.

That's good that she's eating, drinking, etc., normally, not lethargic, no fever.......

I'll be thinking about you and Andi. Please keep us posted, OK?


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> My mistake...... I re-read your post and realized that what I thought were clots were "piles" of blood......... I get you now.
> 
> Well, it would be a help to me, if I were trying to decide what to do, if the vet who prescribed the antibiotics would explain (just a phone call) how localized infection causes bleeding that's increasing in quantity (getting more profuse).
> 
> ...


I've seen this with human vaginosis, Connie. The bacteria irritates the lining of the vagina, producing blood (or the cervix, or the lining of the uterus, but in this case there IS no uterus). Isn't one of the signs of pyometra bloody vaginal discharge? I'm more inclined to wonder if it's the sutures in the cervix? The active (bright red) bleeding leads me to believe it has to be the vaginal walls producing the blood. Where else could it come from???? When it was dark brown I thought it was just "old blood" left over from teh spay itself.

It could also be b/c of her recent litter. We have no way of knowing how long ago she whelped...she was admitted to the shelter on teh 14th of April and when I adopted her on the 27th her teats were still dark and hanging, but the milk dried up, and her vulva still enlarged and dark. I have had people tell me that this sort of bleeding has been seen in bitches spayed too soon after whelp or during a heat, but still. It usually doesn't worsen, but resolves itself.

I'm stumped needless to say, and stressed to the max. It's enough to make me not want any more female dogs LOL.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Stacia Porter said:


> ........I've seen this with human vaginosis, Connie. The bacteria irritates the lining of the vagina, producing blood (or the cervix, or the lining of the uterus, but in this case there IS no uterus). Isn't one of the signs of pyometra bloody vaginal discharge?.......


I think pyometra is more likely to present with pus, or greenish discharge.

And vaginosis.......... I didn't think it caused increasingly profuse blood as you describe.

I'll do some searches.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Stacia Porter said:
> 
> 
> > ........I've seen this with human vaginosis, Connie. The bacteria irritates the lining of the vagina, producing blood (or the cervix, or the lining of the uterus, but in this case there IS no uterus). Isn't one of the signs of pyometra bloody vaginal discharge?.......
> ...


I've seen teh bleeding increase in humans as the bacteria spreads. When a pg lady tells me she is spotting I send her to her doc and usually it's a bacterial infection.

I'm not sure this is Andi's problem, but it is plausible to me. There was definitely no internal bleeding as per the x rays this morning. Cavity from which the reproductive organs were removed was clear, bowels clear. Nothing looked amiss...


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Andi*



Stacia Porter said:


> ....................I've seen teh bleeding increase in humans as the bacteria spreads. When a pg lady tells me she is spotting I send her to her doc and usually it's a bacterial infection.
> 
> I'm not sure this is Andi's problem, but it is plausible to me. There was definitely no internal bleeding as per the x rays this morning. Cavity from which the reproductive organs were removed was clear, bowels clear. Nothing looked amiss...


Stacia, any change? How is she doing? 

If it's a bacterial infection, then the spreading of it should slow now, right, after a day on antibiotics? 

I hope she's WAY better today! O 

Boy, you've had a really full plate recently, I'd say. (Andi too......)

I had a massive post-surgical infection once in the general area (after an A/P repair), and MAN....... the infection on top of the surgery-site pain was a lot more than I had bargained for.

Let us know when you have a second, OK? I wish I could help you out...... Maybe babysit the partridge in the pear tree? :wink:


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: Andi*



Connie Sutherland said:


> Stacia, any change? How is she doing?
> 
> If it's a bacterial infection, then the spreading of it should slow now, right, after a day on antibiotics?
> 
> ...


She's only had a couple of episodes of actual discharge today adn when I "wipe" her it's brown. Kristen just saw it and agrees it looks like a heat!

I'm continuing with the antibiotics and keeping her quiet, well hydrated, and well fed. She's still spunky aNd acting normally...

Connie, I'll happily send you the partridge. Might I include one or two skin kids with that parcel? :wink:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Andi*



Stacia Porter said:


> ........Connie, I'll happily send you the partridge. Might I include one or two skin kids with that parcel? :wink:


Hell, no!  

Been there, done that! :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I'm SO glad it seems to be calming down.........bright new blood in increasing amounts after surgery scares the heck out of me.

Whew!


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: Andi*



Connie Sutherland said:


> Stacia Porter said:
> 
> 
> > ........Connie, I'll happily send you the partridge. Might I include one or two skin kids with that parcel? :wink:
> ...


AWWWW come on! They only act up when people come to see me!! Like tonight...when they managed to squeeze model glue all over a desk and each other while makng noises like they were killing one another, throwing fits, slamming doors, and otherwise behaving as if they were taught no manners. They don't do that without company b/c then they wouldn't be able to convince people that my house is out of control.

She is still bleeding, and it's red, but it's not as much as it was. It does scare me but more and more I think it's a false heat. If I don't see a marked improvement by Monday morning I'm calling teh vet back. I would never forgive myself if something horrible happened to this baby on my watch!


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Stacia, your kids are completely NORMAL. I don't know of anyone's kids that don't 'act up' when company is over. The styrofoam incident was pretty funny, even though I know what a bitch it is to clean up!! You'll probably still be picking pieces of it off Abbie a week from now! :lol: 


As for Andi, who is an absolute DOLL, her discharge looks _very much_ like a heat. Andi doesn't seem bothered by it in the least, and Achilles doesn't either. If it were some kind of infection, I would think that they both would be way more interested in it.

If you have to call the vet back, I'd REALLY fight about paying another exam fee if I were you.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

I forgot about the styrofoam....Abbie got it off herself but Trevor's room is stil pretty trashed. He wouldnt' go to bed until nearly midnight and now he's got an earache from congestion and he's gone back to sleep. Wow is he in a bad mood...and wouldn't you know I'm out of children's cold meds? It figures. My husband is yelling at me to take him to a doctor. That sounds nice and all but Tricare hasn't gotten of its butt yet to assign us a doc, so we have NO healthcare unless we call them for prior authorization. I somehow doubt they're going to give me the go ahead to take a kid to the ER for an earache. Really ticks me off since we set all of our Tricare stuff back up the minute Michael signed in here at Hickory, which was the beginning of MARCH!

Yeah, I'm not too keen on paying yet another fee to the vet clinic. Those people have about $650 from me at this point and I haven't even owned the dog for a month! And they'll get another $60 or so from me next month for Achilles' stupid vaccines (plus the $80 they already got for his hanging lip appts and meds). Sad thing is they're one of the cheaper vets in town. I've said it once and I'll say it again: this is why animials are so undervetted! Some people just can't afford to pay $20 just to have the dog seen every timie they need it plus meds and other work. The cost of rescuing a dog is throgh the roof...

Andi is in good spirits today but I'm still making her be nice and quiet. She's ticked at me but the bleeding seems to get a bit worse when she's running around too much (or maybe that's just b/c she's standing, who knows). She tried to chase a bird down on our morning walk LOL.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

I forgot to say in my last post that I can TOTALLY relate to the styrofoam thing. I bought a new ceiling fan for our living room because the old one was probably like 30 years old or something, and it was ugly. Adam put it up, and put the old one in the box that the new one came in, with the styrofoam sitting on top. Spook (the 11 month old kitten that acts like a dog) decided that styrofoam is GREAT fun to chew up and shred into a billion, zillion little pieces all over the living room and you know what Adam was doing? Sitting on his butt playing the X-box! I asked him what happened, and he said he didn't even SEE IT!!  :roll: :roll:


Do you think Trevor has a cold, or do you think it might be allergies because of the move?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Stacia Porter said:


> .....Yeah, I'm not too keen on paying yet another fee to the vet clinic. Those people have about $650 from me at this point and I haven't even owned the dog for a month! And they'll get another $60 or so from me next month for Achilles' stupid vaccines (plus the $80 they already got for his hanging lip appts and meds). .....


Oh, I would *call* and report, and if they think she should be seen again, I would let my choice of verbiage make it really clear (nicely and matter-of-factly) that I assume that I've already been charged in full for this procedure, including any follow-ups necessitated by procedure-caused infection.

That conversation can be completely nice and business-like -- and hell, can even include some kind of compliment about this is the reason you go to them.


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## Guest (May 21, 2006)

Ok, I read this thread pretty fast, so sorry if I'm missing something...but: If you don't know how long ago she whelped, why was she spayed so soon? Couldn't this be somehow related to her having a recent litter? I (thankfully) know nothing about pregnancy, but I know that there are all sorts of hormonal fluctuations during and after it; could she have been spayed too soon for the post-pregnancy stuff to run its course? :? How about calling a different vet too, and asking what would happen if a dog was spayed immediately (or a month) after whelping? Do we know for sure that she actually gave birth to live pups? Do we know how long ago those pups were taken away, or died, or whatever happened? Maybe she had too much physically/hormonally going on still to undergo such a serious surgery??? Anyway, hope everything turns out ok.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Ok, I read this thread pretty fast, so sorry if I'm missing something...but: If you don't know how long ago she whelped, why was she spayed so soon? Couldn't this be somehow related to her having a recent litter? I (thankfully) know nothing about pregnancy, but I know that there are all sorts of hormonal fluctuations during and after it; could she have been spayed too soon for the post-pregnancy stuff to run its course? :? How about calling a different vet too, and asking what would happen if a dog was spayed immediately (or a month) after whelping? Do we know for sure that she actually gave birth to live pups? Do we know how long ago those pups were taken away, or died, or whatever happened? Maybe she had too much physically/hormonally going on still to undergo such a serious surgery??? Anyway, hope everything turns out ok.


It was a condition of adoption, and the info you mention isn't available.

Of course, I'm not Stacia.........! I've just been following the thread (and other threads about this rescue).

I'm with you in hoping all goes well, which it appears is happening now.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

BTW, Stacia, keep us posted! :>)


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Ok, I read this thread pretty fast, so sorry if I'm missing something...but: If you don't know how long ago she whelped, why was she spayed so soon? Couldn't this be somehow related to her having a recent litter? I (thankfully) know nothing about pregnancy, but I know that there are all sorts of hormonal fluctuations during and after it; could she have been spayed too soon for the post-pregnancy stuff to run its course? :? How about calling a different vet too, and asking what would happen if a dog was spayed immediately (or a month) after whelping? Do we know for sure that she actually gave birth to live pups? Do we know how long ago those pups were taken away, or died, or whatever happened? Maybe she had too much physically/hormonally going on still to undergo such a serious surgery??? Anyway, hope everything turns out ok.


Jenni, I wish I could answer those questions, but we can't. She was a shelter dump in the "anonymous" drop off pen in the middle of teh night. We only know she was pregnant by her teats and swollen vulva (and sagging abdomen prior to the surgery). I couldnt' tell you how long ago she whelped, except that she was dropped at the shelter on 14 April and I adopted her 27 April, spay was 12 May. So, even if she had whelped teh day before drop-off, which isn't likely, it was over a month. Her milk was completely dried when I adopted her.

She had no vaginal discharge save cervical mucous prior to her surgery and besides being underweigt and having HD, was in good health. 

I would have liked to postpone it but the vet recommended immediate spay due to the chance of being impregnated while in teh shelter. The workers don't pay attention to what sex of dog is placed in what pen.

I would have thought they wouldn't have charged me for the emergency visit on Friday since she was being seen for a complication from a surgery THEY performed, but I had to hand over $150 nonetheless for exam, labs, x rays, and antibiotics. I wasnt' thrilled to say the least. Her spay, microchi, and hip x rays cost me $325!!! And her initial vetting cost me $180. At some point, knowing this is a rescue, you'd think they'd give some sort of break but no...


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## Guest (May 22, 2006)

Connie, I know it was a condition of the adoption that she be spayed. My question was why so soon, when the dog was obviously in poor health (emaciated, recently whelped).

Stacia, that's a lot of money. They (IMO) should've at least covered the "normal" expenses for a dog to be adopted. Lots of dogs don't arrive at the shelter in perfect condition, and they don't add every little charge into the adoption price. You'd think it would all come out, since some dogs need a fair amount of medical attention prior to adoption and some need none. Nice of you to absorb this.


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## Stacia Porter (Apr 8, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Connie, I know it was a condition of the adoption that she be spayed. My question was why so soon, when the dog was obviously in poor health (emaciated, recently whelped).
> 
> Stacia, that's a lot of money. They (IMO) should've at least covered the "normal" expenses for a dog to be adopted. Lots of dogs don't arrive at the shelter in perfect condition, and they don't add every little charge into the adoption price. You'd think it would all come out, since some dogs need a fair amount of medical attention prior to adoption and some need none. Nice of you to absorb this.


The shelter she came from is in a rural community and is run by inmates from teh nearby prison work camp. They have no funds for vetting and euthanize by carbon monoxide gas b/c it's the cheapest method. They are doing the best they can, but have a high volume of dumps and surrenders and no space and money for half of them! There are very few adoptions, if any, from the shelter. I knew when I took her that I would be absorbing the entire cost, and I'm fine with that. 

My big issue is that I honestly think my vet shouldnt' have charged for the emergency visit, or at least not the exam fee or bloodwork or whatnot. I paid $150 for teh spay itself and then paid $50 for anasthetic and $25 for the pain meds. I really think that ought to cover follow ups/complication appts IMNSHO. It's apparent that she's bleeding due to a vet screw up of some kind (whether sutures were not well anchored or there is a piece of her reproductive organs still in the abdominal cavity). 

The vet felt it was better to spay her and abort possible pups than to allow her to carry them past the "point of no return" in her emaciated condition (plus we knew she had some sort of hip issue, just weren't 100% sure it was HD). So it was her opinion that we should spay now instead of later.

The more I have this surgery done the less I like having it done. I swear to goodness I attract animals who end up with wierd complications and side effects!


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## Guest (May 22, 2006)

Ugh. What a situation. I don't blame the shelter; the vet should just eat some of that. That is NOT normal, and of course the vet who did it says it's ok. Hope she's ok in the long run. I just worry about infection, if there was something left there...  that would be dead tissue, and that can be problematic, no? Good luck!


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Connie, I know it was a condition of the adoption that she be spayed. My question was why so soon, when the dog was obviously in poor health (emaciated, recently whelped)........


Oh, I see.............gotcha. I did NOT mean to imply that your question was generated by not following the thread, but I see now that I worded it stoopid indeed.  

BTW, I believe it's more common for a spay that is/might be an abortion as well as a spaying to have post-surgery complications. 

I was forgetting to consider that when the issue of the bleeding first came up.

OTOH,

QUOTE: I really think that ought to cover follow ups/complication appts IMNSHO. It's apparent that she's bleeding due to a vet screw up of some kind (whether sutures were not well anchored or there is a piece of her reproductive organs still in the abdominal cavity). END QUOTE

Yes! I could not agree more, and I think I would say this, a la 

"I would *call* and report, and if they think she should be seen again, I would let my choice of verbiage make it really clear (nicely and matter-of-factly) that I assume that I've already been charged in full for this procedure, including any follow-ups necessitated by procedure-caused infection. 

That conversation can be completely nice and business-like -- and hell, can even include some kind of compliment about this is the reason you go to them."

I really agree with Kristen, Jenni, all who think that the vet needs to be "eating" some of this cost.

Jenni -- again, any tone my post about your question might've had was absolutely unintentional.


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## Guest (May 22, 2006)

Connie, it's all good  . 

I have read about abortions, and have heard similar things; some bleeding is normal. It would certainly make more sense in this situation than a straight spay. In a straight spay, where would all this blood be coming from? I think the vet is playing cover-up big time. Even if it costs a little more money, I'd ask for a second opinion, and MAYBE that vet would concur that something is awry, and you MAY be entitled to some money back from butcher #1. It's hard to prove anything w/out a second opinion and documentation. No way have I ever paid (or even been asked to) for a second visit to address a surgical issue! :x


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jenni Williams said:


> Connie, it's all good  .
> 
> I have read about abortions, and have heard similar things; some bleeding is normal. It would certainly make more sense in this situation than a straight spay. In a straight spay, where would all this blood be coming from? I think the vet is playing cover-up big time. Even if it costs a little more money, I'd ask for a second opinion, and MAYBE that vet would concur that something is awry, and you MAY be entitled to some money back from butcher #1. It's hard to prove anything w/out a second opinion and documentation. No way have I ever paid (or even been asked to) for a second visit to address a surgical issue! :x


Ya know, this sounds right to me. This lends a little more clarity to my own thinking.

Especially this: QUOTE: No way have I ever paid (or even been asked to) for a second visit to address a surgical issue! END QUOTE


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