# artificial turf for dog yard



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

As the snow recedes and the mud pit that is my back yard reveals itself once more, I am wondering if artifical turf products might be worthwhile.

I have have horse stall mats in her kennel, but I train and play with her in the backyard and it is brutal. I want something I can train and play on, so not really wanting to do wood chips or some such thing.

I was thinking of doing a section of wood chips at the back of the yard where she mostly goes to the bathroom and trying to convince her to only go there...and put some kind of other surface in the rest of the yard.

Has anyone done artifical turf? Pros..cons?


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

Jennifer,

I've never used it for dog training, but I'm sure it will work well. You won't be able to lay the turf in your back yard as is. You will need a drainage layer between the existing ground and the turf, 8-10 inches of level compacted sand would make a good the substrate for the turf.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Adam Rawlings said:


> Jennifer,
> 
> I've never used it for dog training, but I'm sure it will work well. You won't be able to lay the turf in your back yard as is. You will need a drainage layer between the existing ground and the turf, 8-10 inches of level compacted sand would make a good the substrate for the turf.


Oh yes I expect it to be expensive and time consuming LOL!


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## Carlos Machado (Dec 28, 2008)

A couple of years ago I worked on the new SPCA in Edmonton building the kennel curbs ect. they used artificial turf everywhere they used small gravel compacted with a tamper about 8 inchs thick on a thick dirt base not clay the amount of snow we get it will take to long to disperse the runoff unless you have a slope to help. It should work very well just do your research and lots of labor now will save you from years of cutting grass.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

how about just pea gravel ? or we have this red gravel in my driveway, its really nice always looks clean never muddy?


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## Pete Stevens (Dec 16, 2010)

One of the military bases near me has artificial turf and they hate it. In Southern California, it gets very hot. The turf gets much hotter than grass, plus its made of sliced plastic. They have had a few dogs that cut the pads of their feet when the make a sudden change in direction. My neighbor has artificial turf, it looks way better then my torn up grass from all the dogs but its always 10-15 hotter than my backyard.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Pete Stevens said:


> One of the military bases near me has artificial turf and they hate it. In Southern California, it gets very hot. The turf gets much hotter than grass, plus its made of sliced plastic. They have had a few dogs that cut the pads of their feet when the make a sudden change in direction. My neighbor has artificial turf, it looks way better then my torn up grass from all the dogs but its always 10-15 hotter than my backyard.


Thanks for the feedback.

It is not so hot here and it is on the north side of my house, but something I have been considering. I have been looking at some turf sites that have sold to doggy day cares, spca's and the like. Are all turfs created equal as far as abrasion?

I mean when you have a malinois, your dog's feet/body are never really safe...are they LOL ?


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Tammy St. Louis said:


> how about just pea gravel ? or we have this red gravel in my driveway, its really nice always looks clean never muddy?


Pea gravel just seems so messy. And not really nice to train obedience and stuff and play on. That is my thought anyways.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

Im fairly familiar with turfs as with my work we do alot of playgrounds and putting greens and try to keep on top of trends in general. There is a nice product out right now that is used throughout Florida (hot hot hot) pretty extensively. I would call and ask about the heat produced from it. I havent heard any heat comments when using turf in playgrounds, but I do know with some products/ manufactureres they are not all created equal. 

http://www.k9grass.com
What I like about this product is the antimicrobial protection. 

t


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

How about wood chip mulch? The dog park in Toronto used to dump a load of it on the heavy traffic areas every year. Seemed to keep the mud under control and be a decent surface for the dogs to run and play on. Biodegradeable and environmentally friendly, too.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

Their are several different brands out their. You need to watch out for those turfs that use an infill of recycled tires, which they grind down. As Pete stated, the turf will heat up. The crumble tires not only absorb the heat some have been known to be toxic, containing lead, chromium, cadmium, arsenic & zinc.

A local city in 2008 put down a football sized field at their sport complex for use of youth sports. A beautiful field, however a lot of the children were getting heat stroke and sick when playing on the field. A report showed that the new installed turn contained the above traces of toxins and on a 85 degree day the temps on the field could get as high as 110 degrees. A newer field was installed a year later after much backlash.

If you are going to install turf..research. The state o New Jersey did a full report on artificial turfs.

Mario


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I have had gravel in a pen before and liked it though it was a bit hard to keep clean though I wonder with a leaf blower ..... mainly the issue was not dog poop if you kept it picked up but leaves and other organic debris.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

leaf blower works good for straw debris/leaves/pine needles on the gravelled portion of my dogyard.

on gravel- I find larger gravel doesn't get spread around so badly as the small stuff and is easier to keep clean as it packs down tighter


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Does anyone train obedience, play fetch and fast paced tug games with malinois on large gravel or wood chips on a daily basis? I just imagine the stuff would go flying and the rock would not be great on feet. I am also not wanting to weed...even though I would put cloth below I imagine it would not take long where I am in weed land.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I'd avoid putting cloth under it - dogs find it way too easily and unless you go for the really high end stuff, stuff still grows through it pretty fast. For anything you put down you need a few inches of it to keep the weeds down. On gravel you can always "tiger torch" the weeds when they are small.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Mario thanks for mentioning that, I'm going to look into that. Also the heat factor, never considered that either, the product has been sold to me before as better then grass in every way. 

I had an installer from AGL come in a while ago for a quote, I think the grass was $10/sq ft installed and they would not sell their product if you planned on installing yourself. The installation procedures have a great impact on how the product lasts and works, so they would not want some one to do a crappy installation and then blame their product if it didn't work like promised. 

They specifically said they were better and more durable then K9 Grass, even brought in product samples of competitors for us to compare. 

We decided to pass on due to the cost as our back yard is very large. 

This year we will likely be installing pavers along the paths most commonly traveled by the dogs and most beat up that are always mud pits. The grass areas, I cover with a very thick layer of fallen leaves in the fall and that immensely helps with the spring thaw out. 

I have tried mulch before and didn't like it. It would just get kicked around and kept ending up in places I did no want it. The leaves get beat up, but not moved over nearly as badly as the mulch.


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

personally I am thinking about planting weeds . they grow in any condition and you can kill them. I just want to stop the mud


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Timothy Saunders said:


> personally I am thinking about planting weeds . they grow in any condition and you can kill them. I just want to stop the mud


Oh I have tried...my yard is more weed than grass...but still the mud is still the winner.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I used to toss straw around in the winter when it got muddy. It kept things under control pretty well. 
this wasn't in a run. It was across the back of my yard at the fence where the dogs ran all the time.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> I used to toss straw around in the winter when it got muddy. It kept things under control pretty well.
> this wasn't in a run. It was across the back of my yard at the fence where the dogs ran all the time.


I do the same thing. It isn't the most beautiful thing in the world but does a reasonably effective job on the dog trails in the rear yard. After spring break up and the rains we get here in spring it rakes up pretty easy and I burn it.

If I don't use it I have a total mud pit. The other positive is if you don't put it down to thick grass will still do fine under it so no time lost with getting the yard greened up.

Quick fix, easy and cheap.


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## Bart Karmich (Jul 16, 2010)

It seems like the "in" thing to do is rubber flooring or agility mats in a warehouse. You can train 365 and it's easy on the dog's joints compared to concrete.

Outside I would say you have to fix the drainage problem. With the drainage fixed, I'd use something cheap like DG or road base. It's not too loose like pea gravel, it's not too hard like concrete, and it's not really sticky like a soil with a lot of humus. This is what you'd see on a high school track (unless they have the big budget rubber track). It's decent on joints and the dog's pads will slip well on it (rather than getting torn). You can mist it to keep dust down, and provided it does have good drainage underneath, it will dry out quickly after rain and snow. Around here DG is just $14 a yard. You might need a rental tractor and some drain pipe to fix the grade and get the drainage working though.


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## ken hungerford (Jul 13, 2008)

Hi Jennifer,
I'm in no way trying to sway your decision on artificial grass; however, if you go that route, Wysiwash has a LONG-standing relationship with the turf industry. Our office will be happy to give you some valuable information on the subject. We got involved as a solution to a problem involving a turf product that had the enzymes, bla, bla, bla... long story short, a law suit was dropped after the complainant began using Wysiwash on the artificial grass. 
All the best,
Ken


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Bart Karmich said:


> It seems like the "in" thing to do is rubber flooring or agility mats in a warehouse. You can train 365 and it's easy on the dog's joints compared to concrete.


Oh I am aware of the in thing to do...perhaps you don't know this, but I am a ski patroller, make no money and live in a trailer park in a tiny town, so indoor dog training or my own indoor dog training is NOT an option:-(

I train outside in my back yard in the middle of winter, in the dark, in the rain, snow or whatever. I wear an god damn flashlight on my head for ****'s sakes. We try to git 'er done, despite our circumstances.

I would love to fix my yard, but my reality is likely a mudpit. 

If I sound bitter...I AM LOL. BUT....a girl can dream! And I appreciate all the ideas and feedbackO


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## Denise Gatlin (Dec 28, 2009)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Pea gravel just seems so messy. And not really nice to train obedience and stuff and play on. That is my thought anyways.


It is clean but hard to maneuver in. A boarding kennel I have worked at uses pea gravel and for their purpose it is fine but I wouldnt recommend it for training on.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Francisco, please fill out a bio on the Member's Bio forum.
http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/

Thanks
WDF Moderators


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## Christina Kennedy (Aug 25, 2010)

Being an agility person as well, I have run my dogs on a lot of different turf surfaces. They are not all made equal. However, I have NEVER had an issue with my dogs slicing their pads. Ever....I would suspect the turf that caused that was a very poor grade. And these are very fast agility dogs- cornering more than most bite sport dogs. There are many types of turf out there so be selective with what you decide to go with.

I put turf in my dog runs for our new kennel. So far, I LOVE it and so do the dogs. They can't dig through it and it is very easy to clean. Also very plus on their joints. We put down the proper drainage under it so they can pee out there without any issues. The turf in the runs has a "thatch" to it so that we didn't need to use sand or rubber infill to make it stand up. You can see photos here http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2478396648354.2138826.1505642299&type=1&l=46fbf4c6a6

If I had the money, I would have done my training field also...but oh my was that going to cost several cars...


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Bart Karmich said:


> With the drainage fixed, I'd use something cheap like DG or road base. It's not too loose like pea gravel, it's not too hard like concrete, and it's not really sticky like a soil with a lot of humus. This is what you'd see on a high school track (unless they have the big budget rubber track). It's decent on joints and the dog's pads will slip well on it (rather than getting torn). You can mist it to keep dust down, and provided it does have good drainage underneath, it will dry out quickly after rain and snow. Around here DG is just $14 a yard. You might need a rental tractor and some drain pipe to fix the grade and get the drainage working though.


Exactly what I'd suggest as well. I had some laid down this summer and find it to be an excellent solution in smaller working areas for dogs. It's also fairly tidy to work with. One aspect is that the material laid down wasn't fully uniform in size so there are some patches that are not compacted as well as the rest. It's really a minor issue though. Otherwise, I find it to be an excellent material to use in a dog yard. I am considering covering my entire back yard with it.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Is road base the same stuff they call crusher run?


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

The kennels here have a thick layer of pee gravel. The rocks are fairly small in diameter. Honestly... it sucks. It's hard to get your footing. If your dog makes any fast turns rocks fly. It REALLY sucks to decoy in. These guys wish they just had mud.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Is road base the same stuff they call crusher run?



Sounds like what we call 1/2" minus here. 1/2" is the largest sized rock in it. The smaller stuff fills in and packs nicely. You can tamp it to make a nice flat surface. It's limestone. I've considered it for my run.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

This isn't my house but this is the material (D1) that I used and what it looks like when compacted and dry. As a matter of fact mine is considerately more tightly compacted than this is. A lot of trail heads up here use this material as well. It's very stable and with the proper base for drainage (mine is sand) it is rather ideal, particularly for small spaces. As I mentioned sometimes there are larger stones in the mix, but you can hose it down, clean up, and shovel on this surface without much loss. If you snow blow on it for winter use, it's no problem. Also, as Bart mentioned - it is quite affordable considering other alternatives. 

http://dhb.smugmug.com/Other/Girdwood-Rehab-Project/west-rocks/81382635_RGSDP-O.jpg


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Nicole, that looks like exactly the same situation I have at the back of my house. An area of some fill and a drop off (the house sits on a hill) and the area next to the house turns into an absolute mudbath 

I was hoping to find a more reddish color (not gray) but I get a LOT of leaves falling on it as well as sweet gum balls and acorns.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> This isn't my house but this is the material (D1) that I used and what it looks like when compacted and dry. As a matter of fact mine is considerately more tightly compacted than this is. A lot of trail heads up here use this material as well. It's very stable and with the proper base for drainage (mine is sand) it is rather ideal, particularly for small spaces. As I mentioned sometimes there are larger stones in the mix, but you can hose it down, clean up, and shovel on this surface without much loss. If you snow blow on it for winter use, it's no problem. Also, as Bart mentioned - it is quite affordable considering other alternatives.
> 
> http://dhb.smugmug.com/Other/Girdwood-Rehab-Project/west-rocks/81382635_RGSDP-O.jpg


Sure looks like our 1/2" minus!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Does anyone train obedience, play fetch and fast paced tug games with malinois on large gravel or wood chips on a daily basis? I just imagine the stuff would go flying and the rock would not be great on feet. I am also not wanting to weed...even though I would put cloth below I imagine it would not take long where I am in weed land.


I have, and yes the stuff can go flying, although in a yard it just flies to another location, still in the yard  Didn't notice any issues with the dogs feet. As for weeds it's not hard to just spray once in awhile. 

However, instead of either of those products I would use the material they put in horse arenas. You can get variations on it, the stuff I like is a shredded wood although I've seen arenas with things like shredded shoes (Nike LOL). The shred makes it hold together better than chipping, and it kind of packs down into a fairly robust "mat" if it's outdoors and gets some moisture. I used to use it in the muddy spots in Oregon, where I had tons of rain in the winter. Have used it for higher traffic areas in my yard here in CA also, where we don't get as much rain but when it rains, it RAINS, and the drainage in my yard is not that great, so I end up with areas of standing water sometimes.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Ok so the crush run here is about $25 a ton but it all appears to be granite.

Is there such a product as limestone crush run? (May not be available locally though because the quarries I see are all granite).....


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Ok so the crush run here is about $25 a ton but it all appears to be granite.
> 
> Is there such a product as limestone crush run? (May not be available locally though because the quarries I see are all granite).....


there is a lot of places with various grades of limestone gravel here. from large rip-rap to screen sift.... In Illinois...more than granite, but we are within 50 miles of one of the largest limestone quarries in the world, lol.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Limestone is very common here.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I was hoping to find a more reddish color (not gray) but I get a LOT of leaves falling on it as well as sweet gum balls and acorns.


I imagine you might be able to topically apply a light stain to the material with something similar to the product concrete is stained with.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

I have tried to grow every kind of grass there is in my backyard, but nothing survives dog pee and dead grass goes to mud. With 3 males and one female wherever the girl pees three boys pee over it and that equals a big dead spot. I taught my female to go in one spot of the yard. In that spot I added a big plastic fire hydrant to accommodate the boys and in that spot I use pelleted horse bedding. The pellets break down to a sawdust consistency when wet. For more comfortable footing for the dogs when I first put it down I always spray it with the hose to get that sawdust. Works like a charm and my backyard actually has green grass. If I need to I can rake up the used shavings and dispose of them and add fresh. The reason I use pellets over shavings is I find they absorb better and I like the consistency better.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

vicki dickey said:


> .... nothing survives dog pee ....


My crab grass seems to thrive on it.


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Technically I think crabgrass is a weed but yep you are right nothing kills that stuff.LOL


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

vicki dickey said:


> Technically I think crabgrass is a weed but yep you are right nothing kills that stuff.LOL



Pre emergent in the spring! :wink:


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## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

Bob you are right-I put that in the front yard and it worked. I was afraid to put it in the back because of the dogs. I have found the best fertilizer is my pet rabbits poop. We have the greenest yard in the neighborhood. People always ask me what kind of fertilizer I use and when I tell them they dont believe me. If they would look closer they could see all those little black balls lol.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Damn wild cottontails crap all over my front yard....after they eat all my plants. :evil:


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