# what are bite tugs stuffed with?



## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

i figure ya'll have busted enough of them with all these strong dogs that ya'll should know. 

i love my border collie mix but he bites like a little girl. we have lost a bunch in the river but i never had one rip on me so i have no idea whats in them. 

im thinking of starting to make my own as we have a big ass commercial sewing machine at work.

i figure if i make one a week for a year I'll have enough to last a while when I get my malinois. 

thanks,
chris h


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

chris haynie said:


> i figure ya'll have busted enough of them with all these strong dogs that ya'll should know.
> 
> i love my border collie mix but he bites like a little girl. we have lost a bunch in the river but i never had one rip on me so i have no idea whats in them.
> 
> ...


I've seen felt as well as the white synthetic stuffing depending on the manufacturer. 

The difficult part is to get good quality "French" or "Belgian" linen. If you make jute or leather ones then it's easy to find the material. Some use fire hose and stuff them as well.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Carpet under pad for the most part. You could make one end with velcro and when the dog beats the snot out of the under pad you can replace it without having to take apart the stitching.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> The difficult part is to get good quality "French" or "Belgian" linen. If you make jute or leather ones then it's easy to find the material. Some use fire hose and stuff them as well.


I'm not keen on the fire hose material as the stuff IMHO is hard on the dogs teeth as it doesn't have a lot of give in the nylon material and is slippery compared to jute or French Linen.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

The hardest part is getting them stuffed. I have seen one end velcro so that you can restuff when the middle gets all smashed.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

i already have some old fire house on craigslist. for the price its worth trying. less than 30 $ for 100 feet of the lightwieght "forestry and wilderness" style 1.5 in wide hose.

i already have whole box of nylon webbing from when i sued to rock climb (pre knee injury) and can use that for the handles. 

I have seen some tugs with a single handle loop and a ring on it...are these for a leash or "flirt poles"? i should probably make a few anyway. 

i could get a lot of lightwieght felt and/or carpet padding in bulk for real cheap. they would both be easier to manage than the fluffy stuffing. I found a place when building my cats trees that sold carpet remnants by the pound...they'd probably have real cheap padding. 

i been looking at the linen and I wonder about what weight linens are they using on the bite suits? I bet i could find the linen on a sewing specialty website. 

The Velcro is a great idea! instead of making a whole new tug body i just restuff and seal it up.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It is not really linen. I remember that nightmare, then when I found out it wasn't called linen, I was pissed. LOL I also remember that you had to order it in large quantities. 

I think that you should make a few. Can't hurt, and you will get better and remember your encouraging friend from workingdogforum and send him a few. : )


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I have some stuffed with plastic bags - like grocery store bags. I remember another forum memeber making tugs that way too.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> I'm not keen on the fire hose material as the stuff IMHO is hard on the dogs teeth as it doesn't have a lot of give in the nylon material and is slippery compared to jute or French Linen.


Hard on teeth this coming from a suit trainer if they slip on the hose they'll bite harder next try.


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## Michael Santana (Dec 31, 2007)

Crack......


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Michael Santana said:


> Crack......


:lol:


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I make my own and give them to all the club members. I use fire hose and stuff it with plastic bags. I glue handles for the dogs that don't target to well at first. I'll make a series of pictures, step by step if anyone would like to see how it's done.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

thanks so much ya'll

CRACK...lol you just might be right. 

i will be picking up my hose monday or tuesday and should be getting started on them ASAP. 

I think from what i have found based on the construction of the ones i have that my process will go something like this

1. cut hose to desired length, adding 1/2" on each end for seams and handle attachments

2. sew one end closed

3. place in stuffing jig (i made one of these lask night from 1.75" pvc and an endcap. i used a hole saw and chisels to countersink a spot in a 4x4 to hold the tube upright while stuffing. I will then use a piece of 1.25" pvc with endcap to press stuffing insde. the whole assemlby fits nicely in my bench vice.)

4. stuff with material (i will experpiment with bags, felt and carpet padding at first until i see what works best for me)

5. clamp open end shut with woodclamps

6. sew shut open end, removing clamps as i go. 

7. cut webbing material for handle loops. 

8. sew on handle loops.

9. give to people on WDF to test:lol: as my dogs bite all weak and whatnot. 

my company already makes a line of recycled climbing rope leashes and toys and we pride ourselves and making some seriously durable products. Therefore i will double or triple stich all seams and use some seriously beast webbing for handle attachments.

I probably wont put these into regular production unless theres a big market for them, but if i'm making em they still got my name attached to em so they must be as strong and durbale as possible. and if they strong i'll go through less of them when i start training this future pup. 

I would think the plastic bags would be the most buoyant of the stuffings and would be best to make a floating bumbper for the border collie mix. hes obsessed with water retrieves. 

jerry,
if you dont mind posting a photo how to I would really appreciate it.
thanks,
chris h


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> I'm not keen on the fire hose material as the stuff IMHO is hard on the dogs teeth as it doesn't have a lot of give in the nylon material and is slippery compared to jute or French Linen.


I agree, it's not a top choice but can be used. I have a couple from fire hose. Most of mine are french linen, however I buy these when in Europe so not the easiest. A friend of mine uses leather ones, however I sometimes leave mine on the field and they get sprinkled on regularly so I prefer not to use leather. I do want my dog to play with whatever I have offered though.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

i been looking for the bite suit material but have had no luck...anyone know if it has a trade name or what is commonly referred to in the sewing/fabric industry? i know the ray allen material is called Syntek but im pretty sure they got that stuff locked down.

i have found tons of "french" or "belgian" linen but its all like material for bedsheets...wouldn't last a second on a bite tug.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

It is a filter material from europe. I have never heard of the name, but I remember the search for "french linen". What a pain that was. My buddy and I spent hours and hours trying to figure this shit out. LOL


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

like something that industrial/manufacturer would use for filtering liquids? cheese cloth on steroids?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> I agree, it's not a top choice but can be used. I have a couple from fire hose. Most of mine are french linen, however I buy these when in Europe so not the easiest. A friend of mine uses leather ones, however I sometimes leave mine on the field and they get sprinkled on regularly so I prefer not to use leather. I do want my dog to play with whatever I have offered though.


I gave my fire hose tugs away. As being slippery my dog took the tips off her top canines trying to catch one of them. I'm not exactly sure how it happened but it did. She is a fast dog and being in the right place at the right time on her entries handling her on recalls has always been a pain with her. 

I'm sure that with slower dogs no problem they are durable and since they are made to transfer h20 they can stand the rain and won't rot. But I still feel Jute, French Linen and leather are more satisfying for the dog to bite than nylon.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> I gave my fire hose tugs away. As being slippery my dog took the tips off her top canines trying to catch one of them. I'm not exactly sure how it happened but it did. She is a fast dog and being in the right place at the right time on her entries handling her on recalls has always been a pain with her.
> 
> I'm sure that with slower dogs no problem they are durable and since they are made to transfer h20 they can stand the rain and won't rot. But I still feel Jute, French Linen and leather are more satisfying for the dog to bite than nylon.


 
Sometimes, isn't that the point....to be slippery and harder to grip? I honestly don't think the firehouse had anything to do with the teeth being broke, but could of happened if only bit with front canines, thus could of happened with any type tug.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jody Butler said:


> Sometimes, isn't that the point....to be slippery and harder to grip? I honestly don't think the firehouse had anything to do with the teeth being broke, but could of happened if only bit with front canines, thus could of happened with any type tug.


Maybe she only got the tug with her fronts I'll never know and am not worried about it her teeth are flatter now and probably stronger since the teeth are not as tall LOL! ... She still bites like a Croc maybe when she is a old girl they'll give her problems but knock on wood so far so good.

My point I'm trying to make you are not going to find any decoy using a Sleeve or Bite suit made out of Firehose. So the extra slipperiness of the nylon is a moot point. If you want slippery and hard to grip why not wet mossy rocks then? :lol: 

So to me .. It is not about being harder to grip and testing the dogs grip. The real point is you use a tug for basically 2 things. 1. to build a young dog's grips and confidence 2. as a reward during training with older dogs. 

Firehose is just not as enjoyable for a dog to grip as the other available materials that's all.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

We called it "target cloth". It was a heavy weave muslin. We started the dogs on tugs of burlap. It still works very good. Sometimes new isn't always better, it's just different.

DFrost


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I think they use wet filters in air ducts. It is not always easy to understand the answer given. I also think these same manufacturers make different types for different companies with varying amount of cotton vs nylon.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

do ya'll the a heavy cordura would work for the exterior? i got a bunch of that hanging around for repairs to hiking packs, camel backs, etc.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

ya'll using the heavy burlap for the tugs right? i can get some 10z per yard burlap for real cheap.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> I gave my fire hose tugs away. As being slippery my dog took the tips off her top canines trying to catch one of them. I'm not exactly sure how it happened but it did. She is a fast dog and being in the right place at the right time on her entries handling her on recalls has always been a pain with her.
> 
> I'm sure that with slower dogs no problem they are durable and since they are made to transfer h20 they can stand the rain and won't rot. But I still feel Jute, French Linen and leather are more satisfying for the dog to bite than nylon.


I agree that natural fiber is best. A place to look for leather scraps would be at a saddlery or manufacturer. 

However, I see you are in Canada where everything is green naturally with high rainfall...here in SoCal tugs get slippery when we water or the dog drops the tug in the water bucket! No dew on the grass. We have artificial rain mostly! LOL 

The one thing I like about the fire-hose tugs that I have are that they are longer than my linen tugs. What I don't like about them is that their diameter is small. 

I definitely will ask for longer tugs from the manufacturer in Belgium next time as most of mine don't leave much room for my hands and the dog's teeth..ouch! Or, I have to hold it one handed and that's tough with a big dog's power.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How tight a weave is that ?? I don't care for jute so much as I think that it breaks down too quickly.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

The Amish make our stuff. They use hotwater insulation tubing, the rubber stuff. It is pulled through the leather exterior and has a handle on one end. We use 6" and 12" tugs made from the same stuff. Puppies are exposed to the material with a leather bite rag.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

tons of good ideas ya'll. thanks.

I got my sewing lady showing me how to work the machine after we wrap up for the day. ill try and post some pics of my tugs for ya'll to review and once i get some more done i'll send some of them out for testing.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

So Jeff, did you ever remember what "french linen" is called here?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

You mean the stuff that is manufactured here ?? I have no idea if it is even made here. I went and looked under everything I could think of under the sun and never figured it out. It was a long time ago, and I spent many hours looking over many days.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

http://www.modler-gmbh.de/product_i....html&XTCsid=039a518eb82e9c87fc8de77be1d3fb74

Made of very strong leather for the rougher type of dog. Optimizes bite (so they say) and bendable, easy to put in pocket, etc. 35" long (finger protection!!)

Click on picture for enlargement, maybe make your own.


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