# Ceiling Dogs



## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

A German, Belgian and a Dutch having a fun time at the ceiling...










http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7103160388966339289

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8105633144453822207 

Enjoy!!!


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## Lacey Vessell (Nov 18, 2006)

Very nice videos - I am impressed with the control, by voice alone, that you have with this young pup.  I also like the picture of the three dogs on the scaffolding by the ceiling. Good Job!


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Thank you, Lacey...

That obviously hardworking guy in the video is our newest member with his first working pup. He's been only around for about seven months. I worked the Dutch.

Best regards...


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Outstanding :!: 


Al, is there anything you can't do with the dogs? It seems like there's no limit to your imagination. 


Andy.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Andy Andrews said:


> Outstanding :!:
> 
> 
> Al, is there anything you can't do with the dogs? It seems like there's no limit to your imagination.
> ...


Oh there's a lot lot more that need to be learned from these creatures. May take more than a lifetime to know and understand what these creatures are capable of. They simply open up and reveal themselves while in the work, in many ways most of us don't think as possible. The obstacles are quite unstable and shaky as the dog gets higher, but the dog seems to know when to take it real slow and easy. Fantastic is when one applies other work on those obstacles. More fantastic is when one puts on the leash to actually work and experience it.

Reminds me of a Stephanitz' quote:

"*Our chief means of influencing our dogs are eye, gesture and voice... a good trainer can do everything with these, without any other means at his disposal for punishment*".

Interesting...

Best regards...


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

Wow! Just WoW!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Very cool videos AL!
I LOVE that Von Stephanitz quote!


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2006)

"Our chief means of influencing our dogs are eye, gesture and voice... a good trainer can do everything with these, without any other means at his disposal for punishment".

Sounds to my ears like you are brow beating them, constant chatter etc.

What happens to the dogs that will not go up the ladder ?


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What happens to the dogs that will not go up the ladder ?


they don't make the video...


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## Hil Harrison (Mar 29, 2006)

wow eh ..amazing!


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> "Our chief means of influencing our dogs are eye, gesture and voice... a good trainer can do everything with these, without any other means at his disposal for punishment".
> 
> Sounds to my ears like you are brow beating them, constant chatter etc.


Pardon me, Gerry, but what exactly do you mean by your statement?




Gerry Grimwood said:


> What happens to the dogs that will not go up the ladder ?


Not gonna happen, Gerry. 5-6 month pups do ladder work easy probably even more challenging. It's simply a matter of having a good working relationship and knowing how to do it. Really no big deal.

So wrong again, Tim. Each pup will have a video clip.... :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Best regards...


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Maybe it will be easier, Al, if you told us exactly what is going on rather than quoting Stephanitz all the time? :wink: Nice work btw.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Lyn Chen said:


> Maybe it will be easier, Al, if you told us exactly what is going on rather than quoting Stephanitz all the time? :wink: Nice work btw.



Thank you, Lyn...

Well, I hope there's nothing wrong with quoting a man who had a lot to do with these working breeds, especially if his words are proven and indeed inspiring. I just find it interesting that I find ancient wisdom more interesting. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

What's going on is all in the video. Nothing to hide. I'm sure the video will speak a lot about the pups' early foundation. The pups obey their handlers plain and simple, even under heavy stress with no need for props. And that goes for any work we do with these pups. That's it, that's all. I guess it's the simplicity that makes it, as what most describe here, as awesome. 

I'm sorry if this outdated mind of mine still believes that dog-training revolves around obedience, not drive-building or bitework.

Best regards... :wink:


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, the thing is, what Stephanitz is saying is pretty much common sense for a lot of working dog traininers, otherwise we'll just have pet dogs and our dogs wouldn't be capable of doing half the things they do.  So I think that's what the issue is.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Lyn Chen said:


> Well, the thing is, *what Stephanitz is saying is pretty much common sense for a lot of working dog traininers*, otherwise we'll just have pet dogs and our dogs wouldn't be capable of doing half the things they do.  So I think that's what the issue is.



Then I think it shouldn't really be an issue at all....

Best regards...


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote "Pardon me, Gerry, but what exactly do you mean by your statement?"

I don't mean to belittle what your are doing at all, but to my eyes the dogs really don't seem to be into it. Yes you have some nice obediance on them but what is the end result ??

By brow beating I meant constantly telling and encouraging them to perform, and this is what they are doing.

Just my .02


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

+$0.02...we're going to get to a dollar soon... :lol: 

It's only at trials that dogs get ONE command...in theory.

In real life, working dogs must go over, under and through many things they have never been exposed to...with a HUGE number of very powerful distractions...and they need encouragement. The more things those dogs have already encountered, the better. ONE command = perfect response is unrealistic.

A working dog handler doesn't need for the dog to be "into it". He needs obedience.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Quote "Pardon me, Gerry, but what exactly do you mean by your statement?"
> 
> I don't mean to belittle what your are doing at all, but to my eyes the dogs really don't seem to be into it. Yes you have some nice obediance on them but what is the end result ??
> 
> ...



Thank you for the explanation, Gerry.

Yes, the pups/dogs are most of the while challenged in the work. Nothing is routined. This is not sports. Yes, the pup is stressed enough even to make adult dogs resort to flight. I've seen that many times. When stress hits a pup this much, props may not be able to hold him, much less "brow-beating". But that pup took handler's directions regardless. So what do you think made that pup perform and obey his handler?

Stress is natural, as natural as breathing. The only way to overcome stress is for the team to work thru it. Stress, once properly dealt with and overcome, becomes an effective character-builder (not drives) and a training aid second to none. Of course, I meant genetically-correct dogs.

Don't worry, Gerry, in due time the handler (who is relatively new) will be able to do that by signals. Enhancements may take some time not necessarilly on the pup but mostly on the handler. The pup is likewise young and undergoing training. It will need plenty of encouragement and involvement from his handler. Since vocal directions and praises are the only things offered, we don't scrimp on it.

Best regards...

By the way, I don't take your post as "belittling". You can only belittle if you can do the same much better.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2006)

ok, maybe I'm at a buck 50 :lol: 

But does obediance have a practical limit ? do dogs have to perform like circus dogs to prove this point ?

So, maybe this type of OB is great but at this speed these dogs are operating at any person with one arm and no legs could shinny across a beam and out a window and be gone, well maybe not once they hit the ground.

To me, it's just doesn't serve a purpose. If the whole excersise is to show complete obediance and control by the handler and it makes the day to day tasks seem like a walk in da park then I get it.

If this isn't the case then it's just too much fluff.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> ok, maybe I'm at a buck 50 :lol:
> 
> But does obediance have a practical limit ? do dogs have to perform like circus dogs to prove this point ?
> 
> ...


So far, you've only seen agility/obedience in man-made structures, Gerry. Of course we can make it real messy, where dogs/pups must go in groups without disturbing the structure. Then again, this is just a little portion of the entire picture. These pups are worked early so don't think that's all those pups could do. That's only part of foundation. Got a big forest right inside the property I work and the pups consider this as their second home, doing a lot of searches on all terrain under any conditions. You may not be able to compare it with what you do.

Best regards...


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> do dogs have to perform like circus dogs to prove this point ?


  

here we go again...


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Not to worry, now's my chance to handle this professionally. In fact, I'm even laughing... :lol: 

Best regards...


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2006)

Jose,

I apoligise for my responses, your absolutely right in saying I can't compare it to what I do.

But I'm still not sure why you do what you do, can you explain it to me in the simplest terms please ?

If it's just a joke then handle it any way you choose, I thought it was a valid question, keep up the good work.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Gerry, I do some similar exercises with my dog right now, it's basically putting the dog in a stressful environment so his only 'relief' is the handler (and hence, obeying the handler), it's good for solidifying obedience and getting the dog to go slower and listen to you, but I wouldn't personally do it all the time or risk speed and enthusiasm with the dog in the end. My dog I think is at a good balance right now where he will listen to me and go through obstacles slowly, but the moment I "release" him he will jump around happy and willing to go to the next step. It has for me very little to do with drive training, drive training is for speed and enthusiasm on the trial field and for a good work ethic. 

Control is control, no matter what training you do.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Jose,
> 
> I apoligise for my responses, your absolutely right in saying I can't compare it to what I do.
> 
> ...


No need for apologies, Gerry. We are simply exchanging viwes. At least I take it that way.

I think I offered you an explanation as to what benefit a dog an earn from this. The video will likewise say all, if one cares to analyze the inner workings and not dogs simply going up ladders or obstacles. Even three-legged dogs are agile. 

Pup under stress remains comitted to its handler, and that should tell you something. What's the value of this if one is to prepare a pup for future serious and real work, where working conditions may turn chaotic and unpredictable? Reality has a funny way of putting in surprises. It may lead you to think that those obstacles are simply instruments to achieve desired objectives. Not at all bad. Again, the obstacles can be natural or man-made and can be anything like bodies of water, bad steep and slippery terrains, a huge pile of debris, tracking on a tropical storm with coconuts falling and rivers angry and swollen, etc., while combining the elements where dogs are naturally repelled at. In the video I used man-made obstacles where I can make and adjust desired intensities. 

That's the best I could come up with Gerry. Of course, it doesn't need a fertile imagination to realize other benefits as well. Really some things are best felt than said. 

Best regards...


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

> But I'm still not sure why you do what you do


Perhaps he means you personally, not just the dogs? Where do your dogs go after training? What are you training them for? If that's not what he meant, I'm still curious myself, I can't remember ever seeing an explanation of what your dogs are being trained for and where they end up after training.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

> Really some things are best felt than said.


Gotta agree with this one. Trust me, all of this looks REALLY weird, but just try teaching a dog to climb a ladder for a while, and then go back out and do other types of training and see if the dog listens to you just a little bit better than before. 

I personally think it's more about obedience than actually exposing the pup to 'realistic elements'. Genetic and common sense should do this for you out in the real world, which shouldn't really require the dog to do anything particularly strenous or dangerous. Actually sometimes even just common sense is enough. :wink: I got a bunch of mix breeds that have gone with me through weird places, including rocky hills and running water and such, and they have really bad nerves and have never been exposed to any training whatsoever. What I mean by this is you don't really have to train a dog to cross water, bridges, go through rocks, and so on, and personally I haven't seen any changes as these conditions I feel are not that 'stressful' if you have a good dog and a good bond. Climbing a ladder or going through slippery logs that require the dog to not only think but listen to you so he gets through the obstacle, while not practical, will create that scenario where you the handler becomes the dog's comfort zone and thus solidify obedience.

If I make any sense at all. :|


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> > But I'm still not sure why you do what you do
> 
> 
> Perhaps he means you personally, not just the dogs? Where do your dogs go after training? What are you training them for? If that's not what he meant, I'm still curious myself, I can't remember ever seeing an explanation of what your dogs are being trained for and where they end up after training.



I'm sure Gerry will have no problems asking me that if he really meant it. 

If you're interested to know what I do in my little corner of the world, you can visit my website and I thank you in advance for it. Anyway, foundation work for service dogs whether in the future they turn out to be PPDs, PSDs, companion dogs or simple footwarmers, are the same.

My dogs end up addressing my need for security work, after being almost a victim of home invasions, twice. I wouldn't like a third time. They look after the most important person in my life, specially while I'm out on business trips. 

Other dogs I worked and sold provide the same basic service to their owners as well, with some saving the very lives of their owners. Some work as security patrol dogs in foreign countries, and many soon will follow.

So what do you do with your dogs, Mike? 

Best regards...


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

My own personal dogs? They walk around the house being lazy stealing the occasional snack off the kitchen counters


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> My own personal dogs? They walk around the house being lazy stealing the occasional snack off the kitchen counters


Thank you, Mike. Lucky dogs...


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2006)

"I'm sure Gerry will have no problems asking me that if he really meant it"

What I meant was I just don't understand this kind of forced obediance with pups, and that is what it is IMO.

Someone else said "the dogs don't have to be into it, they just have to obey" I think this could backfire on someone when they least expect it with this type of training,do your dogs ever just fold ?? 

The fighting a raging tropical river with coconuts dropping on it's head thing just seems too Disney to me.

I'm just working with a yearling dog right now, maybe for sport of some type.
Just in case you want to know what I'm doing.


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## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

http://www.workingdogforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1654

if you read this topic, maybe it explain things to you. I reacted kind the same way as you.

And still it is not my way or will it ever be, just a (really) different kind of views :wink:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> "the dogs don't have to be into it, they just have to obey"
> 
> 
> > I think this could backfire on someone when they least expect it with this type of training


Gerry, this is your opinion. Do you have ANY experience, credentials or SPECIFIC examples to back it up? If not, then it's like an a_s_o_e; everybody has one.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> "I'm sure Gerry will have no problems asking me that if he really meant it"
> 
> What I meant was *I just don't understand *this kind of forced obediance with pups, and that is what it is IMO.


Can't help you with that, Gerry. Maybe someone in this forum can. 



Gerry Grimwood said:


> Someone else said "the dogs don't have to be into it, they just have to obey" I think this could backfire on someone when they least expect it with this type of training,do your dogs ever just fold ??


I don't know your training, Gerry. But with our training, the handler is trained more than the dog. The measure of a good dog is thru its handler. Folding is something you don't want to happen in a precarious situation, and nothing can be more chilling to a handler than that lingering doubt whether his dog can really handle and sustain an unexpected stress. That's a reality one has to admit and be ready for. 




Gerry Grimwood said:


> The fighting a raging tropical river with coconuts dropping on it's head thing just seems too Disney to me.


I expected that. What is disney to you may be vital for someone specially if he submitted himself to a noble vocation; like searching and saving missing persons. I have an overwhelming respect for these silent heroes and I wish I were younger to be able to do that too. At least I can still work dogs to address real demands out there in the field. 




Gerry Grimwood said:


> I'm just working with a yearling dog right now, maybe for sport of some type.
> Just in case you want to know what I'm doing.


That's great, Gerry. Have fun. I don't expect you to understand what others do, unless probably you get yourself involved in it. 

Best regards... :wink:


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> > "the dogs don't have to be into it, they just have to obey"
> >
> >
> > > I think this could backfire on someone when they least expect it with this type of training
> ...


Some people have 2, they both emit the same substance.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> .... Gerry, this is your opinion. Do you have ANY experience, credentials or SPECIFIC examples to back it up? If not, then it's like an a_s_o_e; everybody has one.


And everyone here is entitled to his/her opinion. Gerry said "IMO," "to me," and "I think." 

The quote above was uncalled-for, in MY opinion.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

Selena van Leeuwen said:


> http://www.workingdogforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1654
> 
> if you read this topic, maybe it explain things to you. I reacted kind the same way as you.
> 
> And still it is not my way or will it ever be, just a (really) different kind of views :wink:


Thanks Selena, yes it helps me understand. And my reference to circus dogs did not originate from this thread.

I am in no way trying to put Jose down in what he does with his dogs, it's very different for sure but if we were all the same what a boring world this would be.

I believe he (Jose) has very thick skin and I doubt anything I could say would affect him at all, I was just looking for an explanation and he gave it to me. Thank you Jose, this is how I try to separate the wheat from the chaff.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Some people have 2, they both emit the same substance.


Heh. Newbs with fight drive, I love it.


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## Liz Monty (Oct 22, 2006)

Woody, your photos crack me up. First I thought you were a woman, then later your pic was a man, now your dancing. it's great :lol: :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Always a woman.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I like your new dancing dress, Woody, but not as much as your blue Queen outfit.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> I like your new dancing dress, Woody, but not as much as your blue Queen outfit.


That blue outfit is no damn good when I'm skipping through the Alps.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Gerry, This was your answer to my question about your credentials:


> Some people have 2, they both emit the same substance.


Gerry...Again, I ask you, do you have K9 credentials, experience or specific examples, on which you base your "opinion"?


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Gerry, This was your answer to my question about your credentials:
> 
> 
> > Some people have 2, they both emit the same substance.
> ...


Well, he's made you look silly in this thread, so that's like a merit badge in some scout troops.

As is pointed out, he's entitled to that opinion, regardless if his credentials match up to the expectations you've set. I have noticed your tolerance of newb opinion seems to be directly proportional to whether that opinion matches your own.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Gerry, This was your answer to my question about your credentials:
> 
> 
> > Some people have 2, they both emit the same substance.
> ...


Actually I do, but they wont be flaunted in an attempt to satisfy your curiosity or to justify my questions asked in a reasonable manner.

Try to impress your friends Andre, not me.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Gerry, I don't believe you. Your words express a lack of knowledge in K9 work. Maybe sport? ...and mind you, there's nothing wrong with that...


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

gerry, let me help you out here. if you disagree with andres, it must mean that you have no experience with working dogs. 


please continue...


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

This can be an educational thread or a flame thread. You all decide.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How did I miss all of this? :twisted: 

I can't believe some gay sh%t with dogs on a ladder got anything going. Dang, I am behind in my reading.

I thought the climbing thing was sort of stupid, although I do see the merits........kinda.

I should post a video of my dog taking a dump on a ladder. That'll show you circus people what's up.

How about manning up and coming over to the civil thread instead of skip to my lou'ing with this sillyness.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> gerry, let me help you out here. if you disagree with andres, it must mean that you have no experience with working dogs.


Tim...you came out of the woodwork, and attacked from the left side! Let me remind you that you have agreed with me...ONCE. :lol: SO...What the heck CREDENTIALS do YOU have???? :lol: :lol: :lol: You haven't been shy about your experience at all. Gerry has disagreed without any substance. He has said, "no...", and when asked why, he has answered, "...because." I would really like to know why he thinks that training under stress can backfire. It's valid. Of course, if he doesn't know, he can't answer anything other than BS. 

Have a good night bud. It's been a long day, and this exchange with Gerry really wiped me out.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> > gerry, let me help you out here. if you disagree with andres, it must mean that you have no experience with working dogs.
> 
> 
> Tim...you came out of the woodwork, and attacked from the left side! Let me remind you that you have agreed with me...ONCE. :lol: SO...What the heck CREDENTIALS do YOU have???? :lol: :lol: :lol: You haven't been shy about your experience at all. Gerry has disagreed without any substance. He has said, "no...", and when asked why, he has answered, "...because." I would really like to know why he thinks that training under stress can backfire. It's valid. Of course, if he doesn't know, he can't answer anything other than BS.
> ...


no. actually you agreed with me once. HAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA. as far as my experience, it's next to none in the grand scheme of things, but it's all practical...


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

"Have a good night bud. It's been a long day, and this exchange with Gerry really wiped me out"

You must have quite a weak constitution if this is tiring to you, how do you manage to train ??

Get some sleep Andre, it'll be better tomorrow.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How did I miss all of this? :twisted:
> 
> I can't believe some gay sh%t with dogs on a ladder got anything going. Dang, I am behind in my reading.
> 
> ...



Yeah, let's see it, big boy.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Greg Long (Mar 27, 2006)

Most of the people on this forum will never be able to understand or accept this type of training.Some may say this is learned but I think it is genetic.In a very similar fashion most dogs in the world today do not have the genetics for this type of work.I am perfectly comfortable with these 2 facts.It is as it should be. :wink:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Still and all, I'm not inclined to let dumb remarks slide by...

Regardless if Gerry's K9 background is selling pet food at a Petsmart, or he's a jungle tracker in Colombia, I ask Gerry Grimwood AGAIN...

Gerry...based on your OPINION: "I think this could backfire on someone when they least expect it with this type of training",

How could it backfire? When? Under what circumstances?

If you could genuinely answer the question, instead of pussyfooting around the issue, it might help to ACTUALLY develop the issue instead of just arguing.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Got him on the ladder, but haven't gotten a sh%t. Will keep you posted. :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Got him on the ladder, but haven't gotten a sh%t. Will keep you posted. :lol:


I am 100% confident that dog would eat sh%t. Have him escort some deviant up a ladder and get 'er done. You could charge money for that in Tijuana. 

The name of the act? "The Aristocrats!"


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

Andres, I'm pretty sure that even if you wrote my reply it wouldn't be good enough. With all your years of experience you have never seen a young dog ruined by too much stress put on it ?

The first video, in my opinion/I think/looks like to me/ shows a very stressed out pup, when it approaches the top it trys to crawl into the space under the last step, is it doing an area search or just trying to hide ?

How can this type of training backfire, you could imo/I think/ easily ruin a dog, well probably not you. 

How did you know where I work ?


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Gerry,

I have seen more than one hundred dogs ruined by using too much compulsion, by expecting too much too soon, by thinking the dog already knows something, by not breaking up learning in sufficiently small stages, by bad trainers...but I have NEVER seen one dog ruined by the judicious stress applied in THAT type of TRAINING by a good handler.

ANY training done wrong will ruin dogs.

The idea with stress in obedience, even if you must as a trainer, end the session on an objective that was previously attained, is that the dog learns to accept stress and overcome it. This is gentle and gradual. It's also hugely beneficial and cannot backfire.

If the dog can't hack it in training, then IN TRAINING, he will be evaluated accordingly...and the handler will encounter FEWER surprises in real life with the dog that COULD hack it. What clearly and frequently backfires, is the fact that too little of "this training" is undertaken, and handlers find themselves partnering with dogs that are highly unstable in dinamic environments.

The basic fact is that thousands of PSDs are sold all over the world and the only environmental qualification offered is "GOOD ON SLIPPERY FLOORS".

If you think it's possible to get a dog that has SHUT DOWN TO DO ANYTHING, you're wrong. You must move BACK and regroup. If you keep pushing, you'll have an anal mess on your hands quickly.

Regarding how I know where you work, I thought I caught a whiff of birdseed when reading your posts.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> Well, he's made you look silly in this thread, so that's like a merit badge in some scout troops.
> 
> As is pointed out, he's entitled to that opinion, regardless if his credentials match up to the expectations you've set. I have noticed your tolerance of NEWB opinion seems to be directly proportional to whether that opinion matches your own.


If Gerry is a newbie, then that explains his remarks. Had I known, I would have answered differently. His posts led me to believe he thought he knew what he was writing about.

Woody, I'm sure you must be liked by some people... :roll: 

In all honesty, I am entertained by your style...even if it's nervy.


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> [If Gerry is a newbie


To this forum. No notion of Gerry's background.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

By the standards and experience of many members of this forum, I am a newbie, doesn't mean I'm mentally challenged.

I'm still capable of forming an opinion and expressing it, if I'm wrong someone will tell me. I have no problem with that.

I didn't offer any advice on this subject, just how I saw it in my eyes.

Backing out into obscurity now :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

nah, you did well, I'm scoring it as:

Gerry: 1
*B*ellicose *A*dvocates of *D*efensive *E*ncouragement in *N*ewbs: 0

That's a joke, before anyone gets carried away.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> .... Woody, I'm sure you must be liked by some people... :roll: .... In all honesty, I am entertained by your style...even if it's nervy.


 :lol: :lol: HIS style is nervy?! :lol: :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> ... I didn't offer any advice on this subject, just how I saw it in my eyes. ...


You're correct; you didn't offer advice, and you have every right to express your opinion. You expressed it here instead of in PMs; I say good for you. (Some forum members say in PMs that they prefer not to get into some threads because they don't care to have pissin' contests.)

So feel free to speak on this board. :wink:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Funny Acronym.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Funny Acronym.


You mean that's NOT what Baden stands for? :-k


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

Connie...do you have any credentials, experience or specific examples that entitle you to use THAT kind of humour?

[-X


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Connie...do you have any credentials, experience or specific examples that entitle you to use THAT kind of humour?
> 
> [-X


Again, just a newbies opinion but even us Canucks snicker at that reference and the mindset that supports it.

Thick thick smoke...the true test of a dog.

And again the credential thing :lol:


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Andres Martin said:


> Connie...do you have any credentials, experience or specific examples that entitle you to use THAT kind of humour?
> 
> [-X


Yes.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> This can be an educational thread or a flame thread. You all decide.



It's going to be a flame thread as usual, Woody. Seen it many times before. The issue is not that some people don't understand, they're just afraid to understand... :lol: :lol:


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## Woody Taylor (Mar 28, 2006)

Eh, flame threads are boring, they always end up getting locked for some reason. And that would be a poverty; I have made some excellent, excellent contributions to dog humor in this thread, which have gone mostly unappreciated, and will be forgotten forever. It's gross, really. I work very hard to amuse you people. I challenge you to find any dog forum in the world that has one thread with references to scout merit badges, the Aristocrats, and a Baden pun, posted by a mod with no dog experience and an avatar from the Sound of Music. And Jeff humor is actually in top form in this thread, and you have the singular instance of a Canuck actually defending territory without the help of the USA (just kidding, Gerry).

Oh well.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

I for one am not afraid to understand anything, if explained properly and don't see how fear could enter the equation.

What I don't totally understand and I am guilty of this as well is, why do people think that "good" dogs have to come from a country half way around the world from where they live, is it the grass is always greener thing ?? or availability ??


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> What I don't totally understand and I am guilty of this as well is, why do people think that "good" dogs have to come from a country half way around the world from where they live, is it the grass is always greener thing ?? or availability ??


We all know the best dogs come from Idaho, duh.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

> Yes


Let me guess:
1) You make everyone laugh at the beauty parlor on Thursdays.
2) You buy crossword puzzle books in bulk.
3) High school spelling bee champion & debating team captain.
4) Season pass to the local comedy club.
5) Moonlight as Seinfeld's writer when you're not on this forum.
6) HOT of a working dog.
7) Yuz IQ s'over wanfi'ty.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

How far off am I?



psst...Gerry, relax...credentials, schledentials...it's what's in your heart and in your head that matters...in that order.


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Woody Taylor said:


> Eh, flame threads are boring, they always end up getting locked for some reason. And that would be a poverty; I have made some excellent, excellent contributions to dog humor in this thread, which have gone mostly unappreciated, and will be forgotten forever. It's gross, really. I work very hard to amuse you people. I challenge you to find any dog forum in the world that has one thread with references to scout merit badges, the Aristocrats, and a Baden pun, posted by a mod with no dog experience and an avatar from the Sound of Music. And Jeff humor is actually in top form in this thread, and you have the singular instance of a Canuck actually defending territory without the help of the USA (just kidding, Gerry).
> 
> Oh well.



Well, gotta have to try other forms of amusement, Woody. :lol: :lol: Just doesn't help, I guess, except those who bashes other trainings they don't fully understand nor care to understand... :wink:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

* Mod delete *


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

* Mod delete *


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## Jose Alberto Reanto (Apr 6, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Got him on the ladder, but haven't gotten a sh%t. *Will keep you posted*. :lol:



Well, you better, marine. I expect no less than a video of what you have said.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

HOT...

I'm sure many definitions apply to you...but I'm referring to "Handler, Owner, Trainer".

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

* Mod delete *


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jose Alberto Reanto said:


> Just doesn't help, I guess, except those who bashes other trainings they don't fully understand nor care to understand... :wink:


Do you mean the people who deride 100% motivational training without ever seeing it done or trying it? Now, I believe these people do believe that they fully understand it, don't you?


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

* Mod delete *


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

* Mod delete *


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

* Mod delete *


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Knock it off. You are both above this BS.


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## Andres Martin (May 19, 2006)

* Mod delete *


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Did you think I was kidding? Thread locked.


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