# A Malinois in an Apartment?



## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Is it doable?

Full story: I should be out of my mom's (I'm 22) by August 1st, and will be done with college in December. The dogs I will have a deposit for a Mal pup on will be bred in January (unless she goes into season sooner/later or something else changes). I currently have a 2 1/2 year old male Pem Welsh Corgi who will be living with us. It's going to be a two bedroom place, with my boyfriend and a friend of ours.

I've been visiting the FR/MR club I will train with. They train 3 times a week. I've been to trials and stayed in a hotel with one of the Mals (and even drove her around in my car) and I'm very aware of the type of dog I will be getting. I'm very active - a new, but avid mountain biker. Our Corgi gets walked once or twice a day, biked once a day, and plays a game of fetch and a little training a random amount of times a day. I also train him in herding.

The plan is to get a downstairs town home type place with at least a small yard (and I mean SMALL). I've been told my dog will need to be kenneled until he/she is mature or he/she won't work very well. What do you all think of this? I don't know how I would fit any sort of kennel in the type of yard we're going to have. I'll manage if I can. The dog will definitely be crate trained.

Also, IS there any type of kennel situation that would for me? Has anyone done anything like this? I won't have a house with a yard for years to come. I don't want to wait until then to start training with a Mal but if I must I will.

Thanks! Sorry for the long post!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

if you have to ask then you are not ready for any dog let alone a malinois.


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't see any problem in keeping a Malinois in the house, as long as you spend enough quality time with him and give him his daily exercise.

My dogs live in a kennel, but that is because I have 5 of them and they'd fight with each other. 
When I'm home I always have one of them in the house.
When I used to have only 1 Mal, then he lived in the house too. And he also competed at the highest level with very good results.
That a dog only would get good results if he lives in a kennel, is a fairy tale.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I had a working puppy in a condo for 4 months before I moved. Housebreaking was a pain in the ass, I had to make sure the pup made it from the 3rd floor to outside without watering the carpet. Other than that it wasn't a problem, just took him out frequently and cut his water off around 7 pm.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

When my Mal was 5 months old I had to move into an apartment with him and my two older dogs. No yard, so anytime the dogs went out it was on leash, unless I drove to somewhere they could run off leash. It was a lot of work, but it is doable, if you're committed to it.

I did that for six months before I moved into a small city house with a very small city yard - big enough that I don't have to walk them every time they need a pee break, but nowhere near big enough to adequately exercise them. 

My Mal was not crated as a puppy, the DS was. Neither dog has ever been kenneled. I don't trust my neighbourhood enough to leave my dogs outside unsupervised, even in a kennel. They both seem to work just fine.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks everyone. It sounds like I can do it. I am definitely committed. I haven't completely thrown out the idea that I'm not ready yet though. I'm hoping I'll be sure between the time I finish school and the time the litter is born. The yard will be big enough for potty breaks, just not exercise. I also have the problem of not trusting people enough to leave my dogs outside.

Thanks again!


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## John Wiitanen (Feb 25, 2009)

Crate trained with daily exercise is fine. A dog doesn't have to live in a kennel to work well. As that being said some Malinois adapt to that situation better then others. Does the breeder have the dogs already started in a crate or living in kennels?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> Thanks everyone. It sounds like I can do it. I am definitely committed. I haven't completely thrown out the idea that I'm not ready yet though. I'm hoping I'll be sure between the time I finish school and the time the litter is born. The yard will be big enough for potty breaks, just not exercise. I also have the problem of not trusting people enough to leave my dogs outside.
> 
> Thanks again!


You might want to think about the purchase if the dog, if it's the guy who told you it has to be in a kennel for a year or it won't work, I'd try to find out what he meant by that advice exactly.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

The dogs as far as I know are mostly living outside in kennels but are also exercised on the huge plot of land they had and probably allowed in the house as well.

The training director of our club says the dogs should be kenneled or they have no reason to work. I want the dog to be a house dog but it will be crated if I am not there (though not for a long period of time) and at night to sleep. Do you think that's sufficient enough to give the dog a reason to work? The idea is to build the dog up as a warrior first and then let him/her be a house dog/working dog.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> The training director of our club says the dogs should be kenneled or they have no reason to work...


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Haha so I take it that's not true? I've searched and read a lot about it but I've seen so many mixed reviews. From what I know, the bitch in our club (and my future dog's dam if things go as planned) is a house dog and she works just fine. In fact I chose to get a dog out of her because I love her temperament so much. Great in the house (or a small motel for a whole weekend) and a great worker!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Quote from Martine Loots "That a dog only would get good results if he lives in a kennel, is a fairy tale". That from a very good dog trainer should tell you all you need to know.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Some of the best dogs I've ever owned were raised in a house. Enzo was raised in an apartment. IMO Any dog who "should be kenneled or they have no reason to work" isn't much of a dog.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks everyone  I am feeling better about it now. As committed and active and willing to train as I may be I still want to make sure it's fair to the dog.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> Haha so I take it that's not true? I've searched and read a lot about it but I've seen so many mixed reviews. From what I know, the bitch in our club (and my future dog's dam if things go as planned) is a house dog and she works just fine. In fact I chose to get a dog out of her because I love her temperament so much. Great in the house (or a small motel for a whole weekend) and a great worker!


People choose to kennel their dogs for different reasons. 
He might like to kennel his dogs for whatever reasons...but to say a dog has to be kenneled or he won't want to work?...

Like I said I would ask him to explain what HE meant, maybe he wasn't clear or was misunderstood....or something...hopefully


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I hope so. Because he also wasn't very keen on the idea that I can't afford a house and only an apartment/town home. That's what brought me here.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Katie Finlay said:


> I hope so. Because he also wasn't very keen on the idea that I can't afford a house and only an apartment/town home. That's what brought me here.


He talks finances, and offers his opinion about yours with ya too??


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

No no, more concerned that the dog won't have a real yard. And here a yard is expensive haha.

Which is pretty valid I think because these dogs obviously need some serious exercise.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't think dogs really need a yard as long as you get them out daily. With the AZ heat the dogs are rarely outside. They have free roam of the house and they go out in the yard to do their business and sometimes bark at stupid shit like birds and lizards on the fence.

I didn't intend to sound like such a smart ass in my initial comment but a little knowledge and common sense is needed to keep a working dog in the house. This has nothing to do with a dog being a kennel dog or not.

My real concern is living in an apartment with such close neighbors, who could complain and cost you your dog. Can you rent a house?


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

No worries Chris. Your concerns are very valid. I've thought about neighbors and even the landlords. We can't afford renting a house. It will be nice to live in the place for a good 6 months or so with the Corgi to get a feel of the area and the neighbors. Right now I'm stuck working a part time job but am looking for full time which should be a lot easier once I'm done with school. Then we can talk about renting a house without having to add more roommates. I'm not a big fan of roommates because all of the people I know would probably destroy any training I'd do with the dogs, apart from the one we're with now.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

The thing is - are you satisfied with him as a breeder - if so, go ahead and buy your "Scheisserle". I would recommend talking to others in the block if you're getting an apartment and letting them know you're "awaiting" a pup and that you intend to ensure he doesn't annoy them with howling. (Although nothing is perfect) but at least you've won their sympathy.

I worked from home for a number of years and took the Briard and then the Fila Brasileiro puppies to Zürich with me when I had to. I was lucky that I had pups that fit into the odd office visits and the busy Zürich streets trams as if made for it.

By the time they'd walked the famous "Bahnhofstrasse", figured out the lift, etc, they were ready to lie down and chew their "sticks". However, I only did this until about 4 months' old, when I could leave them at home for a number of horurs.

Good luck!


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks! The trainer director is not the breeder. I should have mentioned that. Who knows, the breeder might even log on and read this! I think letting the neighbors know is a good idea. Thanks 

Ps. Gillian, your life sounds so exciting! I've never been to Europe but I'm just dying to.


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## Jack Roberts (Sep 5, 2008)

I do not know if people have made it clear to you on this thread about a dog needing be kenneled to make it work but you want to run and not walk away from a breeder who promote this.

A good dog does not need to kenneled to work. This is an excuse that breeders or people give for dogs not capable of the work in the first place.

It sounds like you like the female of the breeding which is a good start, since the female contributes more to a breeding than the male. You want to take your time and not rush the decision.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I "thought" what you said Jack, that's why I asked Katie if she was satisfied with the breeder. It's good you put it more bluntly.

Katie, have a good and hard think about it. There are dozens of such handlers and breeders around that think a dog has to be kennelled to work up a motivation to work. If you sit down and think about it, you'll find the answer yourself. No dog can put itself in the situation that it wants to work by being crated / kennelled. It comes out ready to do "anything" but you are the person who can motivate the dog to work. 

We crate / box our dogs between training exercises so that they don't associate a "bad" exercise with the next one, i.e. retrieving and heeling. If a correction is needed in heeling - putting the dog in the box until the next exercise "frees" him from associating the last correction with the new exercise.

Today, maybe not necessary with the "perfect" handling but....


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks to you both. The breeder isn't the one who thinks the dogs need to be kennelled luckily. She has a pretty good reputation and I've seen and met a lot of dogs from her that I like a lot. It's the trainer director of the club who thinks this. I know a little about training dogs, but not much. So before I took his word for it I wanted to see what others thought.

I'm going to check out the local Schutzhund club tonight, even though my heart is really set on Mondio Ring. I just want to see all of the sports available to my dog and me.


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## Jackie Lockard (Oct 20, 2009)

I live in the smallest apartment imaginable with an adult Lab, and a pup Mali and pup DS. I have a decent sized yard but the apartment itself is a sardine can and we all make it. Just gotta exercise your dogs.


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## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

I live in an apartment with 2 mals that do ring. One does it fairly well, one not so well. The one that doesn't do well was kenneled a lot as a pup to try to make her work. Didn't help - maturity has helped somewhat. The one that works well was kenneled a lot less and worked better right from the beginning. The only thing I do is try to let them rest up the day before I expect them to be working hard and focussed - however - at seminars they work all week and other than getting a bit fatigued, they survive.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> Thanks! The trainer director is not the breeder. I should have mentioned that. Who knows, the breeder might even log on and read this! I think letting the neighbors know is a good idea. Thanks
> 
> Ps. Gillian, your life sounds so exciting! I've never been to Europe but I'm just dying to.


Hi Katie,

Just get tile or hardwood floors and furniture made out of linen, jute or leather and your puppy will "LOVE" apartment life! :lol::lol: 

The only thing to be careful about is to not "no" him/her to death with unrealistic rules when he's too young and be sure if you are having a bad day don't get frustrated with the pup. 

"A tired puppy is a good puppy". A working malinois pup will force you to interact with it as well. 

Ron has been staying at Tim's during the week and going to the Tuesday night club trainings. If you make that training night you can see Alex with "Flare" his D'Only/Cadence male puppy and what puppy training they are doing with him right now. He's about 10 weeks old. Alex is working on retrieves, having the puppy heel and position with food and of course the puppy bitework.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I got $10 that you will be looking to get rid of this dog 6 months after you get it


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

I raised 2 of my current pack in an appartment, and 3 others were brought in when I lived in a 700 sqft house. Our homes are just bigger kennels as far as the dogs care. The main thing is to know the dog your getting and be 100% dedicated to the training and exercise the dog will need. 

I never had issues with big working dogs in small living arrangements. And really I find if the dog is trained and exersiced correctly the crate is not needed past potty training. (and some times not at all)


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Another wee thing to consider with dogs in an apartment....dogs get sick sometimes, especially puppies if/when you're trying out different feeds and stuff, they need quick access to outdoors. That also goes when the dogs are mature too, they also smell when they get hot and sweaty, not to mention when they are wet.

Pups when going through growing bouts will also race round your place like they have a rocket up their backside, and round the walls if anything like mine...that's a big disadavantage if you haven't decent outside space.

If you're a highly disciplined person then I think it could be ok, if not, I doubt it's a very good idea. jmo.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Chris McDonald said:


> I got $10 that you will be looking to get rid of this dog 6 months after you get it


Why? I'm not challenging, I just want to know if there's something I'm missing.

Our Corgi (who lives with my boyfriend) has lived in an apartment his whole life and does just fine. He's obviously not as active as a working Mal, but he is very active. He's also got IBD, so we've had all sorts of fun dealing with a sick dog, haha.

Thanks for all the input everyone. I am very disciplined (I've been trying to go to either the Ringsport or SchH club every week, but it's hard since I'm still in school, which is why I don't have a dog for sport yet). I'm very active on my own and part of the reason I wanted a dog was to be active with me. It's definitely going to be a lot of effort on my part and if I don't feel 100% ready when the time comes I won't get the dog. But it's great to know it's possible!!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I see a lot of people getting dogs for their own selfish reasons. I don’t know your whole situation but being 22 and just getting out of school, living with your boyfriend and another friend in an apartment etc. Im just gona guess the dog aint gona fit into your lifestyle. Something will happen…. And even if it does go OK who gets the dog when you and your boyfriend break up? 
Good luck, I wish you the best


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Am I reading this right? I must not be! 

Are you saying that you want to get a legitimate ,high drive, working malinois pup and live in an apartment? Is this a serious discussion! Let me guess there are people on here that have told you 1 hour of exercise a day is all that a Mal will need right!

A high drive Malinois puppy in an apartment - No freaking way!

If you have to pay a pet deposit or a security deposit don't count on getting it back! 

I agree with Chris I don't think the pup will be around long! I am not trying to be jerk I'm really not. I feel bad for the pup.

Good luck!


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Understandable. I've been with my boyfriend for 6 years. I know it's uncommon and probably unbelievable but it's true. I'm not saying nothing could happen, just that we aren't the average young couple. If we do break up, I get the Mal and he gets the Corgi.

The dog would get more than an hour exercise a day. I mountain bike 2-3 times a week for 2-3 hours at a time. And then either run or bike around the neighborhood. We're always at the park or even just doing basic training in the house. 

But I definitely understand the concern and you could both be right. I'm not planning on getting the dog until I do have a job with my degree (I start an externship in a few weeks, fingers crossed they hire me after) so we'll see, not to mention formal training 2-3 times a week at one of the clubs.

I've been reading forums and books and watching videos on the protection sports for about a year and a half now. I've been visiting the FR club since September and have been to a few trials. I'm still learning, I know. It's been a lot of help posting here.

Thanks!


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Find someone else’s dog to train. Nothing better than using someone else’s boat, pool or dog. :-D


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

have you considered all of the yapping a mali is going to do in your apartment?

You're a getting a dog purely for selfish reasons, you are stretched way too thin time wise to have a breed like a Malinois. If you must get a dog, get a pug.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

But get a bad ass ninja Pug


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

When is getting a dog to do protection sports with not for s selfish reason though? 

I don't HAVE to get another dog. If it really will be a horrible life for it I will wait and see if I will ever be able to provide a better one. If not, then no dog. Thanks for your replies, they're what I needed. To know if the dog's life would be awful.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> When is getting a dog to do protection sports with not for s selfish reason though?
> 
> Ah, Just as we thought, you just don’t get it.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Right, so I'm trying to learn. That's why I asked.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

How does anyone have a full time job and have a dog for sport then? I always thought I'd have more time since the dogs are my main hobby and I don't have any kids.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> How does anyone have a full time job and have a dog for sport then? I always thought I'd have more time since the dogs are my main hobby and I don't have any kids.


you're 22, you're life isn't set. You're living situation isn't set. You may suddenly want kids and then what? You might lose your job which could easily happen for millions come Nov if not next week....


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Chris McDonald said:


> But get a bad ass ninja Pug


my little 16lbs 11yr old pug terrorizes the rottweiler and the mali. She's bad ass and it's funny as shit to watch her get pissed at the big dogs.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I agree with all that. But I'm planning on having a set job and living situation. I'm not trying to get a dog right now. The earliest would be in March/April. But you're right that things could go wrong. Doesn't matter how much planning you do. 

Thanks for the input. I'll hold off on a pug though, haha. If the main concern is losing my job/home and the amount of time I can spend, I don't think it would be fair to get any dog.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Katie, I suspect you'll be fine. If your dogs are important to you, you'll make time for what's important to you. I raised a Mal/GSD X pup in a 3rd floor 1 bedroom apartment and then a small duplex, then a Mal pup in the same small duplex. No fenced in backyard. I was a full time student in grad school (still am a full time student, of course). We were fine. ;-) The bottom line is you don't exercise a Malinois in the house unless it's on a treadmill, or even in a backyard that's less than an acre or two (our current house me and my husband own has got 1/3 of an acre). You'll have to bring them elsewhere to get exercise, like an off leash trail or something like that. Exercising a young pup isn't real hard since they want to just play hard and then crash for a nap in the crate, but a juvenile or young adult is more challenging.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> I agree with all that. But I'm planning on having a set job and living situation. I'm not trying to get a dog right now. The earliest would be in March/April. But you're right that things could go wrong. Doesn't matter how much planning you do.
> 
> Thanks for the input. I'll hold off on a pug though, haha. If the main concern is losing my job/home and the amount of time I can spend, I don't think it would be fair to get any dog.



At 35 I had the world all planned out before me. I was going to retire at 55.
At 39 along came my son \\/](*,)8-[ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

"The best laid plans gang aft agley!"
Quote;
Robert Burns :wink:


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## Hans Akerbakk (Jul 1, 2008)

Katie at 22 and starting with a malinios your already way ahead of most people who show up at a club with a pet.
You'll be on a fast track as far as learning handling, and dog knowledge goes.
Kennel space is only a safe sheltered area for the dog , if the dog is slow to perform it can be used as a tool to help instill work ethic .
As far as barking my mals are silent, I use a spray bottle when they were pups for useless barking . 
In ring you only need one bark in the blind search anymore is just wasting energy.
I had the house and yard before I started, I wish I started when I was 22 instead.
Wish you good luck and happy training.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Hadn't thought of a treadmill! I wasn't planning on exercising in the house, more just doing some basic puppy ob and find it games. Things like that. When the dog is old enough to run hard I planned on doing my mtb with him/her. 

But, time will tell. And remember Bob, he's a blessing! Not an accident


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Katie Finlay said:


> Hadn't thought of a treadmill! I wasn't planning on exercising in the house, more just doing some basic puppy ob and find it games. Things like that. When the dog is old enough to run hard I planned on doing my mtb with him/her.
> 
> But, time will tell. And remember Bob, he's a blessing! Not an accident



Been telling myself that for dern near 26 yrs now...........but your right! :-D:-D:wink:


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Are you guys serious! 

You are telling this girl that she is going to be ok in an Apartment with a Malinois with her lifestyle?

Katie, I am not trying to be a jerk I'm really not, but people are being less than honest with you if they say that a mal in an apartment is ok. It will not be. These dogs (the ones i have been around/raised) don't settle they are always on the move they cannot relax and a one hour work out a day is a warm up for these guys. There are a lot of variables with each dog but if your goal is a high drive mal that can do well at the sport you choose I just don't know if an apartment is the right setting.

It is hard to hear but if it will save you heart ache and money and keep the dog from being bounced to another home environment why not take the hard road for now. 

Have you thought about any other working breeds that might be better for your life style that you might be able to do sch/Fr Ring with? I mean besides the Bad Ass Ninja Pug (haha)

By the way I work 55 to 60 hours a week, have two kids and an irregular schedule. I also have a fenced in yard and 10'10'6' kennel with a roof for my dog. When I am gone that is where the dog is. It is my dog - my responsibility not my wife's or kid's responsibility. The dog has to bond to you. 

This is part that some of the others are not telling you. A working dog is yours and when you start building a relationship with the dog you don't want anyone else taking care of it or training it. It will send mix signals to the dog. With your schedule you have to determine whether you can do that or not.

Again my opinion and my experience.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

I've never even considered someone else training or taking care of the dog but me. I decided on a Mal because the ones I've known really weren't these wild crazy animals that they're made out to be. Granted, I've seen crazy ones. I'm not doubting that they're out there. I've also only stayed in a small two bed motel room with one. I haven't lived with one. And the fun for us will be training. High level competition would be great but it's not my main goal. My main goal is to have fun with my dog.

And like I said, if it's not fair to the dog I won't get one. I highly commen everyone who is or has gone to school, worked full time, or both and those that have kids too for being able to work with their dogs. I may ultimately decide I can't do it. I don't know yet. All I know right now is that the dog will most definitely have more than an hour's worth of my time. 

I appreciate the input from everyone, and trust me, all opinions are welcome and none are hard to hear. If I didn't want to hear it I wouldn't have asked.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Do you think any of the other working breeds would be easier? I assume they all need fairly equal amounts of exercise (enormous amounts too I'm guessing). I'm open to any breed. It's easier to do SchH with the other breeds as far as I can tell and I would definitely do it.


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

Katie Finlay said:


> Do you think any of the other working breeds would be easier? I assume they all need fairly equal amounts of exercise (enormous amounts too I'm guessing). I'm open to any breed. It's easier to do SchH with the other breeds as far as I can tell and I would definitely do it.


Someone once told me that Mals were like GSDs on PCP. Having lived with both it makes sence to me. :lol: So maybe drop the PCP and look into some GSDs?

My best GSD is one of the dogs I raised in an apartment. I had a 45 hour a week job, no kids, no help. But he came out the best because no matter what I worked him everyday till he was tired. Great dogs when you find a great litter with healthy parents. (of course I am a little bias)


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

I raised mals in an apartment without any problem. And they were training and doing competition.
No problem at all.
But I agree that there have to be rules. So it was only ME taking care of the dogs and training them and they got plenty of exercise every day.

Now I have enough space outside to keep 20 dogs if I wanted to but I'm settled now.
This wasn't the fact when I just left school. And I always had malinois. Changed boyfriends a lot but the dogs always stayed


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Katie,

I'd never let anyone dictate to me what sort of breed I should have. It's more or less common sense in the basics.

Here are a few questions that apply to any breed "hyper" or normal!!!!!

If the pup is 7-8 weeks' old when you buy it Will you take a holiday to "break" it in? If you can spend 3-4 weeks with it, to train it where to pee, etc. it will help enormously. Also in this time you can show him what is allowed and what not. Doesn't mean to say it won't obey as soon as you're out of the door but it helps.

A 7-8 week old pup needs to go out about 20 minutes after each feed, feeding time is usually 3-4 times a day. Can you guarantee this?

How long are you away from home - at a time - this is important. You can crate the pup, but under the conditions, as above.

What happens if the pup becomes ill. Have you got reinforcement?

Whatever breed you decide on, the above has validity. The rest is how you train your pup/dog. My girlfriend exercises her Malinois dogs and the youngest goes to work with her and stays in its box in the car. She works at a hospital and in the breaks takes him out.

I was lucky. After I had decided on a pup, I searched for work to do at home.

Occasionally, I had to go up to Zürich but I took each pup, Briard, Fila, with me. By the time we had manoeuevered the station, the train, the tram, the busy Bahnhofstrasse, they were pretty glad to lie (tied up!) and chew on a bone whilst I worked.

*Maybe you should re-read Jack Roberts' threads again??*

A lot of people who maintain you can't keep a Malinois in the house / apartment are only trying to stress what an "exceptionally" high drive dog they have.

The fact that you are asking questions, thinking about the future of the pup, shows that you are sensible.

BTW, I have a GSD that is nothing short of three sheets in the wind but, with the correct handling in the home, can behave himself nearly. It's not just physical exercise that these dogs need, but mind-engaging activites and, as Mike Suttle showed in the thread (albeit for the Detection Work), you can do inside hunting similarly in your apartment / home. I do.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

And look at Martine Loots last post! Just seen it. 

Everything is possible with a little effort and even viewing a Malinois as a canine


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Shane Woodlief said:


> These dogs (the ones i have been around/raised) don't settle they are always on the move they cannot relax and a one hour work out a day is a warm up for these guys.


I've owned several Malinois that could settle in the house and I've owned several that can't. It depends on the individual dog. And, their ability to settle had nothing to do with their overall drive or work ethic - just a difference in resting temperament. Training plays a part in this as well.

That's not to say exercise isn't important.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Shane Woodlief said:


> Are you guys serious!
> 
> You are telling this girl that she is going to be ok in an Apartment with a Malinois with her lifestyle?
> 
> ...


Your lifestyle isn't really suitable for a dog - sounds like he spends most of his life in his kennel.

Katie already has a dog, and a working breed one at that, so the responsibilities of dog ownership are no surprise. I had a high energy dog in an apartment with no yard in my 20's, and we both survived. She was an awesome dog. It took work on my part, but I wanted to do it, so making sure my dog was properly cared for just became part of my lifestyle.

I currently have a Mal and a DS and a Labx in a small house in the city. I have to take them somewhere to run them, but in the house, they are well behaved and easy to live with. Maybe it's the dog or maybe it's the way the dog is raised, but there's no reason a mal can't be good in the house. But that's been established already.

Maybe a Mal isn't the breed of choice for a new schutzhund handler, but I think that is something she needs to discuss with her club. I started with a Mal, got the dog before I started the sport and while it hasn't been as easy as it might have been with a good GSD, it's been a good learning experience and I adore my Mal. There is something special about the breed and about him that appeals to me. 

Is it really necessary that a working dog be kept from all human contact outside of the handler. Really? Is having your partner take the pup out for a pee going to ruin it for all future work? So letting my brother take my working Mal for a walk is the reason I still don't have a SchH1 on him? (aside from his soundness issues and my inept handling?)


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> Your lifestyle isn't really suitable for a dog - sounds like he spends most of his life in his kennel.
> 
> Katie already has a dog, and a working breed one at that, so the responsibilities of dog ownership are no surprise. I had a high energy dog in an apartment with no yard in my 20's, and we both survived. She was an awesome dog. It took work on my part, but I wanted to do it, so making sure my dog was properly cared for just became part of my lifestyle.
> 
> ...


First Leslie don't comment on what you don't know about with my life style and what I do with my dog. Truth is you don't know. 

Secondly he doesn't spend a lot of time in a kennel. I take the dog into the office, I take lunch breaks at home etc so don't comment about what you don't know. What I was trying to emphasis is my dog has a place his place outside not stuck in a crate inside a house.

Secondly I have been fortunate enough to be around on a regular basis some really, really good dog trainers. Several of them have competed at the world level on multiple occasions. By the way one of the guys I have had to a chance to be around a little is the guy who judge protection in schutzhund at the worlds last year in Germany. One of my best friends has competed in worlds with 2 different dogs 4x and going for his 5th. I am *no where near the quality of these guys.* One thing they will tell you *(that they all have in common)* is not even their husbands or wives are aloud to feed, walk, take out for a pee break etc their dogs. No one handles their dogs but themselves. The Canadian western regional this year top 5 all came from the same club and they all embrace this same philosophy. I will let that be my answer.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Guess we're all not up to such high standards here


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Gillian Schuler said:


> Guess we're all not up to such high standards here


Now Gillian you know that is not what I was saying. I am stressing that this philosophy is practiced by some pretty good trainers of which I readily said I am not even able to compare with these guys. I am not even in the same catagory. Just trying to help!

In the end we are all just trying to help her right


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Good luck Katie! I really hope that it goes well for you. Malinois are such great breed. I was told early on that nothing bonds with you quite like a mal. Have fun!


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

What's Mal short for??? :lol:


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Gillian Schuler said:


> What's Mal short for??? :lol:


Mal-adjust :lol:


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Was thinking of Mal-adie!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

what I think you should do is, get into your place and get settled. Then ask yourself, if the situation and conditions are right for a working malinois. 

Planning to buy a working mali just because you are moving out of your parent's home and then expecting the situation to adapt to such dog is IMO short-sighted.

When I was a senor in HS, I wanted a dog and got a working shepherd washout. I live at home until I was a sophmore in college and then when I moved out, I simply couldn't have the dog with me due to my schedule and the fact that I was living with four other people. I understand your situation is slightly different but the time constraints are not that much different. Of course, I didn't know what I do now but neither do you.

Get your place and make it right for a dog if you can and then get a dog.


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

Shane Woodlief said:


> One thing they will tell you *(that they all have in common)* is not even their husbands or wives are aloud to feed, walk, take out for a pee break etc their dogs. No one handles their dogs but themselves.


Seems to me a properly bonded and trained working dog would not need this kind of excessive treatment. What happens if you must leave town and the dog cannot go? Do the handlers leave them in kennels to got hungery and sh*t themselves? I think this goes right up there with "only kenneled dogs will work". Both statements seem to just scream poor foundation training and no real handler bonding.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

That is just typical of some human aces (sp!!) thinking they know how canine "minds" work!!


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## Martine Loots (Dec 28, 2009)

Shane Woodlief said:


> One thing they will tell you *(that they all have in common)* is not even their husbands or wives are aloud to feed, walk, take out for a pee break etc their dogs. No one handles their dogs but themselves. The Canadian western regional this year top 5 all came from the same club and they all embrace this same philosophy. I will let that be my answer.


We have 5 dogs and I always feed them. I have a strong bond with all of them. 
When I'm at work, my husband takes out my dogs and when he's not there, I take out his. However it's only us, I'd never allow someone else to take out our dogs (wouldn't work either). Also we never train each other's dogs.

What would happen if we have to leave for a few days? Well, or they come with us or we stay home ;-)


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Anne Pridemore said:


> Seems to me a properly bonded and trained working dog would not need this kind of excessive treatment. What happens if you must leave town and the dog cannot go? Do the handlers leave them in kennels to got hungery and sh*t themselves? I think this goes right up there with "only kenneled dogs will work". Both statements seem to just scream poor foundation training and no real handler bonding.


Agreed. I think people try too hard sometimes to create drive through deprivation. My husband lets the dogs out, goes jogging with my male that I'm working in PSA, herding, and dock diving, and he handles my female in herding that I handle in PSA. He occasionally also feeds all the dogs if I'm on emergency or something and am going to be real late. We're fine. ;-) My male still loves me the most, but the female Mal is about half and half and always has been, even before doing multiple sports.

Katie, I do have a serious suggestion. Since you've got some time before you consider a pup, have you considered asking Malinois Rescue if you can foster a nice high drive juvenile or adult for them? Then you can see how they really are, you can give a roof and some love to one that needs it, and you never know, you may turn up with a really nice dog that you may want to keep as a first Schutzhund dog. My female working in herding and PSA (and retired from therapy work) is a "failed foster" from ABMR.  

http://www.malinoisrescue.org/foster/


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

Maren Bell Jones said:


> Katie, I do have a serious suggestion. Since you've got some time before you consider a pup, have you considered asking Malinois Rescue if you can foster a nice high drive juvenile or adult for them? Then you can see how they really are, you can give a roof and some love to one that needs it, and you never know, you may turn up with a really nice dog that you may want to keep as a first Schutzhund dog. My female working in herding and PSA (and retired from therapy work) is a "failed foster" from ABMR.
> 
> http://www.malinoisrescue.org/foster/


SUPER IDEA! Learning experiance and helping a dog in need. Love it! :mrgreen:


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> what I think you should do is, get into your place and get settled. Then ask yourself, if the situation and conditions are right for a working malinois.... Get your place and make it right for a dog if you can and then get a dog.



That's what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to move out and get a Malinois the next day. I'm just asking if it's even something I should consider, assuming I've gotten settled in a home and a job and a club. Sorry, I thought I made that clear.

Also, Maren, that's a great idea. Should I be worried about the dog having potential issues? If they are such difficult dogs to own and live with, I would be afraid that getting stuck with a rescue who may have some sort of temperament problem would be even worse. I've never fostered before but it would be fun. I will definitely look into it.

Thanks!


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> That's what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to move out and get a Malinois the next day. I'm just asking if it's even something I should consider, assuming I've gotten settled in a home and a job and a club. Sorry, I thought I made that clear.
> 
> Also, Maren, that's a great idea. Should I be worried about the dog having potential issues? If they are such difficult dogs to own and live with, I would be afraid that getting stuck with a rescue who may have some sort of temperament problem would be even worse. I've never fostered before but it would be fun. I will definitely look into it.
> 
> Thanks!



I'm sure you were clear. I'm like most people on the internet in the sense that I don't read what you write and just give advice anyway! 8-[


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

No worries Chris. Just making sure.

Also, I just read a lot on the ABMR site. Seems like they do a lot of screening. What a great idea! I've always wanted to foster!


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Shane Woodlief said:


> First Leslie don't comment on what you don't know about with my life style and what I do with my dog. Truth is you don't know.
> 
> Secondly he doesn't spend a lot of time in a kennel. I take the dog into the office, I take lunch breaks at home etc so don't comment about what you don't know. What I was trying to emphasis is my dog has a place his place outside not stuck in a crate inside a house.
> 
> Secondly I have been fortunate enough to be around on a regular basis some really, really good dog trainers. Several of them have competed at the world level on multiple occasions. By the way one of the guys I have had to a chance to be around a little is the guy who judge protection in schutzhund at the worlds last year in Germany. One of my best friends has competed in worlds with 2 different dogs 4x and going for his 5th. I am *no where near the quality of these guys.* One thing they will tell you *(that they all have in common)* is not even their husbands or wives are aloud to feed, walk, take out for a pee break etc their dogs. No one handles their dogs but themselves. The Canadian western regional this year top 5 all came from the same club and they all embrace this same philosophy. I will let that be my answer.


My apologies. Based on what you wrote, it sounded to me like your dog spent a lot of time in his kennel.

_By the way I work 55 to 60 hours a week, have two kids and an irregular schedule. I also have a fenced in yard and 10'10'6' kennel with a roof for my dog. When I am gone that is where the dog is._

I train with good trainers too, so what? Not everyone wants to train to an elite level. Some people just want to train and compete and enjoy their dog. And if you're getting a Malinois as a first schutzhund dog, you're not going to make it on to Team Canada no matter how good you are. Can't speak for Katie's aspirations, just throwing that out there.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

All rescue/shelter dogs have the potential for having issues, of course. But the good thing is that these can make you a better trainer and problem solver. Many of the "issues" that Mals in rescue have is not really an issue per se, but just them being in the wrong circumstance (crazy high energy, unprepared first owner who is not interested in giving the dog something to do). And if the dog is just simply not working out, I'm sure you can let them know and they can make other arrangements. 

My dog Lily came from a breeder in Kansas City (I don't know for sure, but I have a pretty good idea who it was). She was bred young (18ish months old) and developed a neurological condition called fibrocartilagenous embolism while she was pregnant. It causes her to limp (non-painfully) on her right side, but it is non-generative and will not get any worse. The breeder didn't want her limping around the puppy buyers, so he wanted to have her put down even though nothing is "wrong" with her otherwise. :roll: The vet wouldn't do it and let her stay at the boarding kennel for 6 months before getting her into Malinois Rescue, where I fostered her and decided to keep her after we had her for about 7 months. She never had been in a house before and she was sweet but scared for the first week. ZERO interest in playing tug for the first 3 weeks and then right as I was about to say never mind and just recommend she go to a pet home, she just turned on and has loved it ever since. She's got medium high drive for both the tug and food and has a civil streak (even though she's very social and stable otherwise), so we try to keep her working in prey. But she's been fun. I am hoping to trial her next year.


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

Anne Pridemore said:


> Seems to me a properly bonded and trained working dog would not need this kind of excessive treatment. What happens if you must leave town and the dog cannot go? Do the handlers leave them in kennels to got hungery and sh*t themselves? I think this goes right up there with "only kenneled dogs will work". Both statements seem to just scream poor foundation training and no real handler bonding.


Anne, that is exactly what I meant. Dogs going hungry and Sh*ting themselves - your freaking genius!!!!


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

leslie cassian said:


> My apologies. Based on what you wrote, it sounded to me like your dog spent a lot of time in his kennel.
> 
> _By the way I work 55 to 60 hours a week, have two kids and an irregular schedule. I also have a fenced in yard and 10'10'6' kennel with a roof for my dog. When I am gone that is where the dog is._
> 
> I train with good trainers too, so what? Not everyone wants to train to an elite level. Some people just want to train and compete and enjoy their dog. And if you're getting a Malinois as a first schutzhund dog, you're not going to make it on to Team Canada no matter how good you are. Can't speak for Katie's aspirations, just throwing that out there.


Leslie, it's cool all is well. 

Good luck with your training.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Maren, that's so awesome! I'll definitely look into fostering (and maybe even adopting) a rescue. 

But, I do want to know, would getting a GSD or other breed make that big of a difference? Are they really that less active? I've just assume any well bred working dog would need a job and a lot of exercise (both physical and mental).


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## Timothy Saunders (Mar 12, 2009)

I raised and worked my malinois while living in an apt. We lived in a studio apt. w/ lg. kitchen. She was raised w/ my pitbull terrier who is very motherly to pups and young dogs. It worked out well. She was crated while I was working and taken out twice a day. While I am not an avid mt. biker, I biked my dogs at least 3x / wk. and/or walked the dogs to the park 2-3x's a week also. I also lived on the first floor of the apt. bldg. and had access to the yard, so I could let my dogs out there if I wanted. I took them as many places as I could and made sure they were properly exercised and it all worked out just fine.

I moved out of the apt. approx. 3yrs ago and everything is fine. She crates well. I take her out and exercise her 2-3x's / wk. She behaves very well in the house and is somewhat well mannered (she does not eat shoes or clothing and will immediately find her toys and mouth or chew them. I've never trained her to stay off the furniture, so I'm sure she'll jump on it and hang out if allowed). Although now I feel she's old enough and matured enough, I've never left her out alone in the home. It worked out well for us. Good luck w/ what you decide.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Katie Finlay said:


> Maren, that's so awesome! I'll definitely look into fostering (and maybe even adopting) a rescue.
> 
> But, I do want to know, would getting a GSD or other breed make that big of a difference? Are they really that less active? I've just assume any well bred working dog would need a job and a lot of exercise (both physical and mental).



when I go out of town, I have to put up the mali at a buddy's place because my wife can't deal with his constant pacing or running around. She can't get him out as often as I do, I doubt you could with your dog either as I have the kind of job where I am home all the time and only have actually "work" a few days a year so he gets worse when I'm gone. She doesn't care about the other five dogs in the house one of which is a working rottie.


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## Remco Fox (Apr 1, 2010)

a little time ago i lived in a condo i had 1 dutch shepherd male 1 mall famale and a jackrussel the male lived on the balkonie made a kennel onn it the female was living inside with the jackrussel female when i leave the house i put the females in a big crate now im living in a house and they have kennels never want too go back at a condo  i say doable


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

Wouldn't the answer be "it depends?"

As a disclaimer, I don't have the answer or experience to lay down some authoritative decree in this. Just asking.

That said, I have heard (and seen, on a small scale) dogs that are both the pacing, quivering-with-energy type of dogs, and some that (admittedly well-trained and exercised) that could, if not relax like a Basset Hound after a good meal, at least compose themselves enough to go into standby-mode or chew on a Kong or something. But again, the few I've gotten to hang out with at all off the field that were pretty composed hanging out were very advanced, so I didn't see them in their earlier stages and any struggles that might have went into getting them there. Some do seem more able to chill out than others though.

So wouldn't it really depend at least to some extent on the dog (the individual a/o line of dogs) and what's available (if there's a pond outside the apartment, a large field down the road, hiking trail out back, nationally-recognized agitator that lives two doors down, vs. next-to-nothing close and no time/resources to make regular trips somewhere else, etc.)?

I mean maybe another breed is a better choice, but it sounds like there are at least some people on the board who have made it work. If it is possible, then isn't it up to Katie to honestly assess her situation, get the right dog for said situation (honestly assessing if a Malinois at all, or even a specific Malinois/litter/breeder/etc. is right for her and her arrangements) and if she can live with the mannerisms of one in her environs, and then do what it takes to make sure the dog gets what it needs? Or am I totally off?

-Cheers


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## Anne Pridemore (Mar 20, 2010)

Katie Finlay;204386
But said:


> I don't so much think it is a case of being less active. I think it is more about the dogs self control. My GSDs and the Mal I live with get the same attention, exercise, etc. They are all right at 4 years old and the Mal is still more to handle than the 2 GSDs. The mal seems to be more needy, and that is saying something because GSDs LOVE their humans.
> 
> I have seen it said by many Mal owners that a Mal will act first and think later, and the GSD will think then act. This has proven correct in my experiance with both breeds.


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## Steven Stroupes (Apr 3, 2009)

I live in a 2 bedroom apt with my g/f and I have a 15 mo. old DS that has been living in the apt. with us since we picked her up as a pup. Housebreaking can be a pain in the ass if you have a top floor apt, but other than that things have worked out ok. Unless it is just piss pouring rain, I take her out for training, obedience, throw ball etc. every day. As long as you exercise them, they will be ok. Also, I don't have room for a kennel either. I keep her in a GIANT crate while I'm at work and I run home on my lunch hour to let her out. She seems to like the crate because she takes off to it and goes to sleep before I even get a chance to leave in the mornings. 

Good luck!


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

House vs apartment, I think really depends on the individuals involved, person and dog. I lived in an apartment for 6-8 months with a couple of my Malinois when I first moved to CA. We made it work, it really wasn't a big deal. The complex I selected was built on a hillside, all the apartments had exterior doors and about 1/2 -2/3 of the apartments were "ground level". Even the one above me was ground level, because of the hill. Plus they all had small balconies. My dogs were adults, but housebreaking a pup wouldn't have been a problem. A high rise type apartment I could see that being a royal pain, but I selected the complex I lived in specifically because it was "dog friendly" in it's setup, I could open the door and step right out into a grassy patch.

As far as exercise goes, in some ways apartment dogs can have it better, since an apartment lifestyle doesn't allow the owner to just open the door and toss the dog in the backyard or out into a kennel, the owner has to take the dog somewhere to exercise, interact with it, etc. There are also apartments though that have yards, a number of my friends that live in apartments have small yards, not just a patio but a grass area, and the one I lived in during college had a large yard attached to it. At least it was large for an apartment, about 25 feet deep, and the width of the entire apartment. I recently helped a friend "apartment hunt" and we looked a lot of apartments with small yards, since she has multiple dogs, including Malinois.

Accidents can be a pain, I didn't realize how much I'd miss being able to take something outside to hose it down, be it a dog, a crate, etc, until I wasn't able to do that. But there are other options, like washing a crate or dog in the bathtub.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks for the responses everyone. I have a lot of thinking and figuring out to do. Obviously I won't know anything for sure until the time comes but I have gotten some good insight from each of you on what I am in for and how it can be done or not done.

Thanks again!


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## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

Konnie Hein said:


> I've owned several Malinois that could settle in the house and I've owned several that can't. It depends on the individual dog. And, their ability to settle had nothing to do with their overall drive or work ethic - just a difference in resting temperament. Training plays a part in this as well.
> 
> That's not to say exercise isn't important.


I would have to agree with Konnie's comment. Some make it and some don't, I have been a true believer of living with the mali & DS. Some are cool to live with, some are a thin line of love and hate, some just need to be outside. Training plays a factor in all of this and will also help you reconize whos house worthy and whos not.


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## Rox Brummer (Jul 7, 2009)

Shane Woodlief said:


> First Leslie don't comment on what you don't know about with my life style and what I do with my dog. Truth is you don't know.
> 
> Secondly he doesn't spend a lot of time in a kennel. I take the dog into the office, I take lunch breaks at home etc so don't comment about what you don't know. What I was trying to emphasis is my dog has a place his place outside not stuck in a crate inside a house.
> 
> Secondly I have been fortunate enough to be around on a regular basis some really, really good dog trainers. Several of them have competed at the world level on multiple occasions. By the way one of the guys I have had to a chance to be around a little is the guy who judge protection in schutzhund at the worlds last year in Germany. One of my best friends has competed in worlds with 2 different dogs 4x and going for his 5th. I am *no where near the quality of these guys.* One thing they will tell you *(that they all have in common)* is not even their husbands or wives are aloud to feed, walk, take out for a pee break etc their dogs. No one handles their dogs but themselves. The Canadian western regional this year top 5 all came from the same club and they all embrace this same philosophy. I will let that be my answer.


I have to agree with this. I have my dogs, my husband has his. We dont cross handle AT ALL. I also kennel if I am not around, and feel this is very important. I AM around the vast majority fo the time though as my dogs are my work, and my base is my home and farm. My Mali pup is great, but I wouldnt put her in an apartment in all honesty. I can take her to the Head Office of the people I work for and she will sit still at my feet through meetings that are more than 2 hours, but she will need a good run before and after. She has never been destructive, but I have never given her the chance to be. She is kenneld or so tired that she wants to nap.


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