# Ball Launchers



## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I never did buy one but I am considering it since a lot of my weekly training is alone.....I realize these are not even a weekly training tool but something you bring out on occasion to tighten things up with the indication. 

That said. Is there anything out there that I am unaware of and best places/prices for each.

What I know is

K9-BSD-2, about $650. 
K9 Pro Launch, about $1000 but you need to buy the boxes?
Cannonball, about $499

Anything else out there?. Comparative reviews. We can use either a piece of hose or a ball on a string. Cannonball looks limited. to a ball (what size) but ability to hang on side is a plus.

I know people have built there own and I might if there were clear plans since I have not built anything electronic in about 25 years...

Would appreciate just keeping it to toy launchers pros/cons. I do have chances to train on a wall (which requires a helper) and scenario-based training with teammates. Just some weekly fine tuning.


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## Brian Smith (May 26, 2013)

I went to a seminar recently that discussed the uses for the BSD system. They suggested getting more creative with where you place the shooter rather than simply using the boxes. Some ideas were to place them in a vehicle with a window down and angling the shooter so the reward could be delivered from inside the vehicle. Another was to hang the canvas shopping bags you get a grocery stores on hooks placed along a wall or other object and put the shooter in it. They also suggested a warehouse with lots of boxes with the shooter hidden on its side in a small void between boxes. And apparently you can bury the shooter in the ground to deliver the reward that was as well. That was geared towards IED's but I'm sure it would work for you as well.
In terms of pricing with the BSD I don't think you could find anything better. Elite K9 bought the system and it's built in- house so the pricing won't change. We use an older shooter and the newer ones are supposed to be a better design but I really like ours, no problems and we use it constantly. During our imprinting phase we activate the shooter about 100 times a week and ours is about 4 years old and running flawlessly. It's pricey but worth it if you use it a lot. I wouldn't buy any of their boxes. They use Rubbermaid type totes you can get for much cheaper somewhere else.
Hope this helps answer some of your questions.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

If I recall the main issue folks had with the old one was it shot out with a bit too much force no matter how you adjusted it and the dogs would wind up backing up to avoid being smacked in the face............It looks like the developer, Dan Reiter, is still selling direct.....He originally started with rubbermaid boxes.....but I was planning on some of the things you mentioned.

The wall kit looks kind of nice, too. The police have a huge wall and lockers to train on but, once again, nice for doing at home.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I have been in contact with Flavio Falcao from Portugal his system looks promising. http://kassystem.com/Products.html Though I have not had a chance to use it. 

I have used the K9 BSD and now own a Cannonball. The BSD is nice as the reward doesn't have to be a ball it can a rag, or even a tug. Which with my Cannonball can be problematic. 

What I do like about the Cannonball is it is very versatile to hide, hang, bury or place. The BSD is a lot more clunky in that regard. 

The Cannonball as well out of the box has superior range I've done it out to 140m and in some funky hides where the signal is blocked. As long as the batteries are decent you get a reward every time you need it. I've left the unit cocked by forgetfulness and when you do that it does kill the batteries. So you always have to make sure that the unit has been popped prior to storage. I prefer the Cannonball over the BSD. 

My Cannonball pops tennis ball size balls like Chuck-its 8 feet in the air, Medium Kongs with or without rope 3ft, you can use odd sized things like Cuzs and the lever can punch those out 8 feet too even if they are not in the chamber the lever can still 'punt' them. 

I generally use it for send aways, jumps, and teaching young dogs to search blinds. I've used it for many other things too.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

The range would be a big plus for working on commitment to source at a distance.

That K.A.S unit looks interesting. Definitely at a better price point. There appears to be a US Distributor but maybe not. The web page listed on the FB page below does not work. I have never bought anything from Europe. How does all that work. I would try this one...though I imagine there is some pretty good lawyering going on which is why I can't find it in the states, because the BSD has been out for a long time and a knock off would be easy for someone skilled in electronics and with the right components.....The problem I would have with trying to build anything is ensuring reliability...plus it might not be "worth my time" in terms of hours

https://www.facebook.com/KennelAutoSystemUSA/info


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Sent him an email. We will see.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Update: it appears Elite K9 has bought out or fought for the claims to every ball launcher out there. I knew they bought out Dan Reiter for the K9 BSD. At least that is what they told me.

I understand they will have a hobby model coming out soon as well as a unit much like the cannonball. I was told that the Portuguese units are a "patent violation" and will be seized by customs. I sure can't find anyone in the states who has one.

There is a new BSD designed to be buried (with a tube that comes off easily and a long range antenna) but it can't operate on its side so I am inclined to just go with the BSD V3 and buy the HDPE boxes to go with it. I think I can rig up something wall wise. I can make it work for buried stuff some other way besides I see it more of a trained indication refining and imprinting tool than a daily use thing....I usually make him wait until I get to source to reward anway. 

They do have the pro launch system as well. I am not sure it can go on its side.

Won't be buying until January. I had a setback when the pump went out on my old dishwasher / running through the downstairs light fixture and had to replace the dishwasher so....not unless Sandy Claws is good to me but prolly not for that much.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Thanks for the update!


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I did wind up buying the K9 BSD with the 4 HDPE boxes. OW. There is no way these things should be this expensive but I figure that since it is not for everyday training, the whole team can share it.

It should be here in a few days.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Excellent!

Looking forward to your reports on it.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I doubt that it is radically different than the original k9Bsd. Nothing magical but a useful tool for some applications


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Arrived today. it definitely does not shoot out balls with the same level of force as the old version. Nice. Also the HDPE boxes are HEAVY. Everything fits nicely.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Is the range still mediocre? The one I played with was lucky to get 50 feet.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I can get about 150 unubstructed with it though the ad claim is 200. Of course that is in the box and I have not tried that with the unit without. That is probably enough for what I want to do. 

One thing I like is that when the ball is released, the unit turns off so you don't have to worry about a switch and that probably saves some real battery life.

I still don't like the barrel size. 2.5 inch is too small and I feel have to restort to a ball on a string and that has to be very carefully loaded. They say you can use a kong. Is that a choking hazard? Is the tennis ball only a hazard because of how dogs squish them? I don't use tennis balls but do use those little knobby balls on a string.

I could use with a piece of hose but the barrel is not long enough to hold a hose long enough to accomodate both my hands and the dog's mouth. It would be even worse for guys. How hard would it be to accomodate something like the Planet dog ultra ball or some other reward toy not small enough to get lodged in a dog's throat. Would love some advice on the best reward toys to use with this thing. (something the dog cannot pluck out)

Their big push now is apparently going to be their special glass jars that will fit into a hole in the plate (same material as box). Well as far as I would see, the blank boxes have no plate (as is I am throwing some PVC in all the distracter boxes to match the one they use as a spacer betweent the BSD and the plate) -- $2.75 a pop for a glass jar that holds about a cup? Uh. Not when I can buy mason jars for about $8.50 a dozen. I will be money that those jars have a unique thread so you can't use a mason jar.

I will probably caulk the box seams and use some kind of weatherstrip around the top as I want the bulk of the odor exiting the box near the discharge chute. I think as long as I use low odor materials and treat the distracter boxes the same as the hot box we are good.

I would like to somehow mark the hot box - so the dog can't discern. I know they are red green color blind but how to get shades of red and green that are identical to the dog I am not sure. [thinking of stickers]

They seem to be lawyered up to the max so any design like this is just not going to happen over here unless someone can find a way through their patent. I know there are other kinds of designs out there to release a toy. But if I were going to spend any time on it the first thing I would do is come up with all the possible ideas and research all the patents out there. I don't know how they can even be so aggressive about the patent. Dummy launchers for hunting dogs have been around a long time and probably were brought into the creation of this product.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

I use a medium or small kong with a rope that I jury rigged. Another good ball that is a great alternative to a tennis ball is the chuck-it ball or even a kong ball. Same size as a tennis ball without the teeth destroying glue and grit.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Yep that would work. Was trying to avoid the string but I figure I need to lay in enough of a supply to get through a training session. I don't want to put back a slobbery ball without getting it clean and dry because it will gunk up the mechanism and, more importantly, that odor will be added to the scent picture.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Just use a rolled up rag or towel then.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

Just bought a bunch of cheap tennis balls and cheap socks. knot in sock will at least give me a way to pop out a ball if it does get stuck and keep the nasty stuff off the teeth. Can toss in washer to keep clean.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> Yep that would work. Was trying to avoid the string but I figure I need to lay in enough of a supply to get through a training session. I don't want to put back a slobbery ball without getting it clean and dry because it will gunk up the mechanism and, more importantly, that odor will be added to the scent picture.


But isn't the odor of the tennis balls already adding to the scent picture? I'm sure you are proofing off the balls but wonder if all you hide are tennis balls would the dog specifically check the area of the tennis balls out more (and ignore areas or clear them quickly if no tennis balls are present) because that ball odor part of the scent picture of association with HRD?


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I am using the exact same balls in the negative boxes as in the positive boxes. The BSD is only a small part of the training. You have to put a toy in the thing.

I am just intending to use occasionally to help keep the indication tight and to build duration when I am out of sight. The overwhelming majority of hides are unknowns to me, (single blind, some double blind) and either with a container of sorts (along with proofing containers in other locations) or no container at all.


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

I didn't doubt you were proofing off. I had wondered with people over reliance on gadgets that I could see someone (who uses this system alot) would develop a scent association to the balls. By that I mean that the dog learns to associate the tennis ball odor with HR. So one of the odors they look for and area they would check more heavily is one that contains a tennis ball. Kinda like an equipment fixation thing. Similar to what I noticed when I was using those PVC tube things when I was doing Gus' scent imprinting. He kept checking the tubes but ignored the HR sitting out in plain sight. Thats when I stopped using the tubes exclusively and began to mix it up.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

I am frustrated with one thing and am going to call tomorrow - It does not take much of a bump for this thing to fire the ball. I do NOT remember that happening with the older version of the BSD.

Since he is a passive alert dog I don't want him rewarded for attacking the box to get the toy.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Nancy Jocoy said:


> I am frustrated with one thing and am going to call tomorrow - It does not take much of a bump for this thing to fire the ball. I do NOT remember that happening with the older version of the BSD.
> 
> Since he is a passive alert dog I don't want him rewarded for attacking the box to get the toy.


No doubt one of our club dogs would pick the launcher up and dump it to get his ball, it wouldn't go off. Sounds like yours might be fubar.


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## Nancy Jocoy (Apr 19, 2006)

The release mechanism on the newest version is a magnet instead of a solenoid and it is a bit more sensitive to vibration; they are going to work with me on this......


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## Axel Van der Borght (Jun 15, 2008)

The cannonball is now cheaper. Check out their website : http://www.newcannonball.com/
Have fun !
Axel


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