# Xena - bite, fight & control [video]



## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

I've not posted a video for several weeks, so thought I'd put something up for viewing and discussion..

Filmed during a training session earlier in the week - a small bit of cover sleeve work and control.

Not overly sure what I we achieved what we wanted here, but my intention was trying to create situations were Xena was controlled around obvious biting opportunities, where she'd only bite when commanded to do so; Despite provocation or temptation from the decoy.

I think we managed it, as she appears clear headed throughout. Her bites weren't the fullest, every time, but I'll make excuses for her that the covert sleeve was very hard and uncomfortable. Having said that, her commitment in the fight I thought was good, especially when the decoy wrapped her a bit. He commented afterwards on how strong the bite was, despite it not always being the fullest.

Any thoughts, advice, comments etc are welcome.

Thanks Gary


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Get her to spit that hunk of lead out and retarget his legs or someplace she can do some good. I know, I know it goes against everything in the dog world, but I think it sorta kinda makes sense. I also like the fang bite so it looks good to me, fun stuff Garry. Looks like you are having a good time!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Can I get a pup ?? Stop ****ing about and get the ball up the park dammit.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Can I get a pup ?? Stop ****ing about and get the ball up the park dammit.


:mrgreen::lol:
I take it you like that training video then Jeff? :lol:

I'm pleased


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I want a pup dammit. Your decoy is funny. I have no idea what he is saying, but he just goes along beautifully.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I want a pup dammit. Your decoy is funny. I have no idea what he is saying, but he just goes along beautifully.


:lol: Yeah, bless him, he tries. 

Regarding the video, how do you think I can improve things for Xena? (apart from getting her pregnant for you :-& )

From yours, and anyone else's more experienced views/opinion than mine - what elements of her performance could have been improved, or were weak, or on the other hand were good and strong?
I'm just thinking from a continuous improvement and development point of view.

Personally speaking, I thought her restraint is getting better. Her speed of engaging/biting remains the same and is quite quick. Also her 'outs' appeared to be without any problem. When I watch the video back, it surprises me out quickly she does 'out', as it never seems that quick at the time.

There's quite a bit of actual action to analyse...


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Start working on her control when you are much further away. You are pretty close most of the time. 

I cannot wait till you trial her again, I think that you are on track to win this year.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Start working on her control when you are much further away. You are pretty close most of the time.


Yeah, that's a good idea. I have started it, to be honest.... but much.

Do you mean, same sort of exercise as the video, but with me further away?



Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I cannot wait till you trial her again, I think that you are on track to win this year.


Fingers crossed.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I guess looking at a PP type dog, you want to get away from the bad thing happening. What would she do if you just took off running and then called her as you were running away ??


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I guess looking at a PP type dog, you want to get away from the bad thing happening. What would she do if you just took off running and then called her as you were running away ??


I've never tried it, but I'd guess she'd run off with me, assuming it was a sort of recall exercise. I may try it to see what happens...:-k

You're right from a PP point of view, I want/train the fight stuff with me close by.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Garry, you and Jeff got me digging on the hard drive today. I got a few of the getting out of dodge stuff in these videos. Aint saying this is the way to do “getting out of dodge” stuff but maybe it will give you some ideas. I made these to send to a friend but I think I might have put some of this stuff up before for a bit. In the video where the decoy walked into the pit for the long bite he was supposed to “get down in the brush and keep quiet” but as you will see he had to give a few grunts and stand up. He was quiet for the second send. 
This was our fist “get out of dodge” with the truck. It went OK. 
I think you might try and switch it up a bit and have your dog drive and you jump in the back! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMPlcDfBvi4 

The other video is a bit of this and that, at 2.45 I get agoing 3.05 in I give an “out”. Looking at past videos of your own dog is pretty cool. At 2.20 in I give the dog his target and take the other. This was the beginning of the summer and we were on a two or three decoy kick for a while then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTLjJ8AZFq0


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

I am just looking at this, Is it considered acceptable for me to post a video on a thread someone else started? I know there is the term hijacking but I don’t know exactly how that applies. Anyway if I am showing my low class, sorry Gary…. And Gary I kept spelling you name with two Rs, did not do it on purpose…. You are more than welcome to hijack any thread I start. I just though these videos might kind of apply here a bit. 
Sorry Man


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Chris,

No problem mate. You and I share ideas on here and I enjoy your contributions.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Very impressive little girl you have there, I'd send her to the biker bar with my wife any day! 

Don't even give a thought to those first bites you said were shallow. It is normal when the dog feels really threatened as in a realistic hidden sleeve situation. It is just her defensive nature getting high, under real stress they may bite a little shallow, but as your decoy noted also harder, because they really want to crush the real bad guy. 

Great little dog, excellent training.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Thanks Gary, it be a lot better if we were able to just meet at the local bar to share stuff. But that would be bit expensive in this case. This internet thing is pretty amazing when you look at the group on here and where there from. 
You next thread I will just PM you and stay off the thread.


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## Butch Cappel (Aug 12, 2007)

Nice stuff Chris, like that pop open hatch work. Great escape for a PP scenario, I might use that for a Pro Sport some day if you don't mind? Thanks for the video.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

We all need ideas; Gary showed me I could spend some more time on the passive stuff.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I don't think it is highjacking at all. Now Gary has another thing he can work on. A video is much better than describing what is going on.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I don't think it is highjacking at all. Now Gary has another thing he can work on. A video is much better than describing what is going on.


I feel much better now, Im very, very sensitive


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> Garry, you and Jeff got me digging on the hard drive today. I got a few of the getting out of dodge stuff in these videos. Aint saying this is the way to do “getting out of dodge” stuff but maybe it will give you some ideas. I made these to send to a friend but I think I might have put some of this stuff up before for a bit. In the video where the decoy walked into the pit for the long bite he was supposed to “get down in the brush and keep quiet” but as you will see he had to give a few grunts and stand up. He was quiet for the second send.
> This was our fist “get out of dodge” with the truck. It went OK.
> I think you might try and switch it up a bit and have your dog drive and you jump in the back!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMPlcDfBvi4
> ...


 
That is a helluva dog you got there. I especially like the bridge jumping, desk jumping and jumping out of the back of the vehicle. O


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ben Thompson said:


> That is a helluva dog you got there. I especially like the bridge jumping, desk jumping and jumping out of the back of the vehicle. O


Thanks Ben, I was trying to throughout some ideas on leaving the dog fighting as you run. I don’t know if the bridge jumping thing is for everyone. Looking at the video for the most part everything went OK although I was not particular impressed with the line placement as I pulled the dog up. After the dog was up I would have rather seen him be clear of the lines and ne not have to untangle things. One way or another that could have went smoother. I was surprised to see that little issue when I played it back, In my own mind I would have told you that I was a little slicker than that. But when those cameras are around I always look less slick in reality than I think I do in my own little world. 
The jumping out of the vehicle went OK for the first time as well, I exercise him on a dirt road and I typically have him hop out and run along side of the truck. We do this a lot. So I thought he might take off and run with me when I took off. You can hear me say “good dog tear him up” and for us that means for him to stay on the target he is on. This term rolled over from doing work with multiple decoys. Sometimes I want him to stay on the decoy he is on even if I am wresting with another rather than him taking whoever is closest to me. It nice how training for multiple things kind of compounds and helps make different challenges come together. 
 There was a bit of hesitation when he was hopping in the back. I very rarely have him hop in this way. Its hell on the paint I, I think I might get a magnetic sigh without the sign, just all white to stick on the back.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> Its hell on the paint I, I think I might get a magnetic sigh without the sign, just all white to stick on the back.


You could see if a tailgait pad like this one used for mountain biking might work...just for training 9 time out of 10 and for ******* running, though the magnet thing might be someting you would leave on always...
http://dakine.com/bike/accessories/pick-up-pads/pick-up-pad-sm/


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> You could see if a tailgait pad like this one used for mountain biking might work...just for training 9 time out of 10 and for ******* running, though the magnet thing might be someting you would leave on always...
> http://dakine.com/bike/accessories/pick-up-pads/pick-up-pad-sm/


That does look like it has its uses, but I don’t know if my window shut or pop open. There are a few local truck lettering guys around I have been meaning to stop and get a good size white magnet. Like you said it can pretty much be left on. I pop my window to let him out a lot and he even scratches the paint on the way out not just the way in. So far the magnet is the best brain fart I can come up with


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Chris McDonald said:


> Thanks Ben, I was trying to throughout some ideas on leaving the dog fighting as you run. I don’t know if the bridge jumping thing is for everyone. Looking at the video for the most part everything went OK although I was not particular impressed with the line placement as I pulled the dog up. After the dog was up I would have rather seen him be clear of the lines and ne not have to untangle things. One way or another that could have went smoother. I was surprised to see that little issue when I played it back, In my own mind I would have told you that I was a little slicker than that. But when those cameras are around I always look less slick in reality than I think I do in my own little world.
> The jumping out of the vehicle went OK for the first time as well, I exercise him on a dirt road and I typically have him hop out and run along side of the truck. We do this a lot. So I thought he might take off and run with me when I took off. You can hear me say “good dog tear him up” and for us that means for him to stay on the target he is on. This term rolled over from doing work with multiple decoys. Sometimes I want him to stay on the decoy he is on even if I am wresting with another rather than him taking whoever is closest to me. It nice how training for multiple things kind of compounds and helps make different challenges come together.
> There was a bit of hesitation when he was hopping in the back. I very rarely have him hop in this way. Its hell on the paint I, I think I might get a magnetic sigh without the sign, just all white to stick on the back.


Is your dog a sport dog or a personal protection dog or both? Just wondering, I'm new to all this.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ben Thompson said:


> Is your dog a sport dog or a personal protection dog or both? Just wondering, I'm new to all this.


He was a sharp personal protection dog when I got him. He was originally purchased after several break-ins of my trucks at my shop as a watch dog. He was turned down a bit if that makes any sense, a sharp PP is not something I really need. I don’t know what I would call him us. But we try our best to maintain whatever it is and have fun doing it


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Thats the type of dog I am looking to get eventually.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Ben Thompson said:


> Thats the type of dog I am looking to get eventually.


Which one? :-k A GSD bitch or a male Dutch Shepherd ?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gary Garner said:


> Which one? :-k A GSD bitch or a male Dutch Shepherd ?


Im gona say either one, just as long as you have a good time


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> Im gona say either one, just as long as you have a good time


I'd have both, if I had the time, space and opportunity... :mrgreen:


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gary Garner said:


> I'd have both, if I had the time, space and opportunity... :mrgreen:


Exactly


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> He was a sharp personal protection dog when I got him. He was originally purchased after several break-ins of my trucks at my shop as a watch dog. He was turned down a bit if that makes any sense, a sharp PP is not something I really need. I don’t know what I would call him us. But we try our best to maintain whatever it is and have fun doing it


How do "they" or you turn down a sharp ppd ?? Did they just take him off the table or beat him into submission ?

I don't know of any other way to change a pressured dog or a naturally sharp dog that quickly to suit a new owner.


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> How do "they" or you turn down a sharp ppd ?? Did they just take him off the table or beat him into submission ?
> 
> I don't know of any other way to change a pressured dog or a naturally sharp dog that quickly to suit a new owner.


Gerry I made a lot of mistakes the first few months when I got the dog and put him on in a watch mode when around people, mostly by tensing up on his lead and being a spas myself, and I was an over correcting a-hole, I can carry on-on what to not to do. And I never said it was quick, it was a several month process. He did spend a good deal of time back with the trainer. I think it was just telling him not to bite while someone slapped me on the back. Basically just changing what were the allowable to be tolerated by him. you can see in one of the bite work videos that the kids can give me a push and he doesn’t do anything. Many would not want their dog to do nothing but its OK for me. 
Does any of this make since or am I talking out my ass?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

how did this get from Xena to someone's PP dog?


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Ah, Its all about dogs…. It might not be on target, but is it really, really that bad?


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I cannot wait till you trial her again, I think that you are on track to win this year.


You were a good Omen for me Jeff 

Today was the "Heath Working Dog Challenge Trial". It was held in Yorkshire in the North of England, with some competitors travelling a few hundred miles from the South.

3 disciplines of Obedience, Agility and Manwork/Protection.

Xena worked her heart out and we managed *1st place overall*, out of 13 competitors. Nice big silver platter trophy....=D>

We also took the obedience trophy. which means a smaller platter trophy...

There were some excellent dogs and fellow handlers competing, several of which previous working dog champions...so do do well against such strong competition made me very proud O


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## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

my claping yellow heads are not working 


nice work !!

Where is the video?


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Chris McDonald said:


> my claping yellow heads are not working
> 
> 
> nice work !!
> ...


No video, I'm afraid... Will be some photographs though.. I'll open a thread next week or so when I've been given the photodisc.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

NICE !!!!!!!!

Now you can settle down and find a nice stud to breed her. LOL

I love to see hard work pay off. I know that you work this dog and have done some really nice stuff, and are not afraid to put up a video, and see what people have to say. This is what I think seperates you from the rest.

AWESOME. I cannot begin to tell you how happy I am for you.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> NICE !!!!!!!!
> 
> Now you can settle down and find a nice stud to breed her. LOL
> 
> ...



Thanks Jeff.. I appreciate your words a lot, mate.

The trial was well attended and suported by spectators. Weather was favourable too, for December in the UK.

Xena managed 60 out of 60 on the obedience and then 57 out of 60 on the Agility. (She jumped a bit wide on the long jump, so dropped 3 points, which was fair).

I made a couple of handling mistakes on the protection/manwork element which dropped us some points, but not too many. She managed the emergency stop/recall, which is the big point earner. She got full marks for the courage/determination on the stick man and then the gun man.

She's not an all out competition dog, as there's a real hard edge to the dog. So it was especially rewarding to do so well against some dogs that were there today, that are 'all out competition dogs'. Xena likes to push boundaries and to test me at times. She's very strong willed and it's not always been an easy journey.

Also some of the handlers who competed were the ones that I admire and aspire to, so it was very rewarding to do so well against such great competition.

When the guy with the camera sorts out the pictures, I'll post them up. Next week perhaps.

Thanks again, Jeff.

Regards,
Gary


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## Esther Chai (Feb 18, 2009)

Well done Gary and Xena. I would have love to watch the trial but had other commitments at home. Look forward to some pictures. Cheers.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Awesome job and a HUGE congrats..................not that we didn't expect it from you two. ;-)


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

gary--GREAT JOB! and GREAT JOB Xena    you 2 really are an awesome team and an example to us all of how it "should" be. 

thanks!!


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## Andrew Rowley (Nov 3, 2008)

Well done Gary. It was nice to see you and Xena again. I was wondering if you would get the recall for a second but she came through true.


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## Gary Garner (Jun 30, 2007)

Andrew Rowley said:


> Well done Gary. It was nice to see you and Xena again. I was wondering if you would get the recall for a second but she came through true.


Yeah, It was either the 2nd or 3rd shout that made the difference [and hurt my throat]. There was some real determination in her run, it takes something to stop it....

Good to see you too mate. Lovely Rottie you've got.


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

Excellent job Jeff!!


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## Phil Dodson (Apr 4, 2006)

I meeant Gary and Xena, sorry Jeff!!


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Kudos Gary and Xena. I'm sure I'll be seeing you in the next issue of UKs Service Dog Magazine.=D>=D>

The wife says well done also....Gawdammit!:-D

Dirty Howie


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Gary Garner said:


> No video, I'm afraid... Will be some photographs though.. I'll open a thread next week or so when I've been given the photodisc.


Congtas to Gary and Xena. Cheers.

Colin


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## Johan Dekinder (Sep 17, 2007)

"Big" congrats mate!

Regards, Jo


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