# Best Option for Heating a Kennel



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Our kennel construction project is under way, and we're trying to decide what the best option is to heat the indoor section of it.

The indoor part of the kennel is an enclosed area approximately 12' X 36', adjacent to our unheated, but insulated horse barn. This area will also be insulated and will be constructed partially of cinder block walls (for the lower 4' of the walls), and partially of ship-lap type wood siding (for the upper portion of the walls). The dog doors are insulated, guillotine type doors. The floor is currently smooth concrete sloping to a central drain.

Options we are considering are tiling the flooring area of the runs only and installing radiant floor heating elements under the tile, or purchasing heating mats to put individually in each indoor run. 

We live in CT, and our barn is very cold in the winter. Any suggestions for the best option to heat this space? Any cons to the ideas we are considering?

Thanks.


----------



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Our kennel construction project is under way, and we're trying to decide what the best option is to heat the indoor section of it.
> 
> The indoor part of the kennel is an enclosed area approximately 12' X 36', adjacent to our unheated, but insulated horse barn. This area will also be insulated and will be constructed partially of cinder block walls (for the lower 4' of the walls), and partially of ship-lap type wood siding (for the upper portion of the walls). The dog doors are insulated, guillotine type doors. The floor is currently smooth concrete sloping to a central drain.
> 
> ...


Konnie my previous dogs did fine in minus zero temperatures of North Idaho. I am about 80 miles south of the Canadian border. I let these dogs inside but the other before this didn't even use their dog house.


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Thanks, Lee. I appreciate your input. I seriously think a dog would freeze to death in my barn overnight in the winter. Looking for an option to keep them warm if necessary.


----------



## Ashley Campbell (Jun 21, 2009)

I think radiant floor heating would probably be your best option. It was pretty common in houses when I lived in upstate NY - it's always nice to have a warm floor in the pits of frozen hell. 

What's the difference in cost between radiant floor heating and individual mats for each kennel?


----------



## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Konnie,a search and rescue dog in a heated kennel?As long as they are dry and out of the wind they will be very comfy if you give them a layer of straw in a wooden box about two feet high.I used very big farm implement tyres for years,flat on the floor.just big enough for the dogs to curl op in.
I have seen many a farm dog just digging a hole in the snow and feeling happy.
Imo dogs have more problems with heat.


----------



## jeff govednik (Jul 31, 2009)

If they havent poured the concrete yet you can do a hydroponic radiebt heat system in the floor with a small boiler

You can keep the concrete at 65 degrees or whatevr you wish

Cheap to run I have in my basement and love it


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> The floor is currently smooth concrete sloping to a central drain.
> 
> Options we are considering are tiling the flooring area of the runs only and installing radiant floor heating elements under the tile, or purchasing heating mats to put individually in each indoor run.


Concrete itself when it is bare and has taken on cold really draws heat away fast from paw pads. Tiles are not a bad idea but would most likely take a beating and I'd think wouldn't last long with busy body Malinois. 

To bad you weren't able to run the radiant heating elements under the cement itself before you poured the concrete. That would've been ideal, any chance before you get further into the project to lay some radiant elements under a light layer of more concrete? 

If you can't do that maybe some rubber horse mats like these? http://www.rubbercal.com/Horse_Stall_Mats.html They seem heavy enough that a dog wouldn't be able to lift them. You could still put the radiant elements under but I suspect that just having the dogs off the cement would be enough especially with an insulated heated dog house. Bonus to something like this in the spring you just move it out and you still have your easy to hose off smooth cement floor again.


----------



## Kat LaPlante (May 17, 2009)

We live in snow country, and at times is will range from -20....-30. I have a wind protected kennel and a dual compartment dog house that my dad built made of plywood, 2x4's, heavy poly, and insuation. We have it raised up on bricks to and bark chips underneath. Inside I put straw, and the dog bed. They are fine most of the winter, BUT in anything below -30 I would bring them inside for the night. The body heat alone in that thing turns it into a cooker.


----------



## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

if the weather is anything like mn dont bother with the mats for under tile. the only way they will work is if you insulate them from the ground. my dad was able to make them work by putting pink foam insulation down then building a platform on that then putting the heating elements down. he even used 2 inch spacing on it (we use a better version of the home depot stuff so you can put the wires closer together). even now it doesnt do a whole lot when it gets below 0.


----------



## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Our kennel construction project is under way, and we're trying to decide what the best option is to heat the indoor section of it.
> 
> The indoor part of the kennel is an enclosed area approximately 12' X 36', adjacent to our unheated, but insulated horse barn. This area will also be insulated and will be constructed partially of cinder block walls (for the lower 4' of the walls), and partially of ship-lap type wood siding (for the upper portion of the walls). The dog doors are insulated, guillotine type doors. The floor is currently smooth concrete sloping to a central drain.
> 
> ...


I see you do SAR and I assume you use your dog for this or is this just a fair weather thing you do if so I guess I would heat it.
If not provide your dog a warm dog house build in portion to the size of the dog with a lot of straw bedding in the barn out of the wind.
So sounds like your planing to have a run inside the barn and a access to a outside run out side the barn correct that's all you need unless it gets deep -20's then maybe you could have a provision for a heating pad under the dog house to bring up the temp or something like Jamie mentioned.
If the dog is expected to work and perform out side how can it do so if its not acclimated to the climate.
My Schutzhund dog stays in the house but likes it out side on days its sunny and calm even if its - 0 
His drive will allow him to work for hours on end deep into the - double digits but his feet and body are going to be shredded due to me not having him prepared properly. 
Shit dose it even get below 0 most years in Connecticut the all time record is -8 I start looking for a jacket to put over my sweatshirt around -8:lol: 
Your dog can live out side easy if you have a good dog house.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Will the dogs have dog houses in the indoor part? This would really help on the cold days, having a smaller area for their body heat to heat up. Good quality straw has proven itself at our work kennels.

I would think that heating mats would be fine for days under-15 C outside or so. Fitting them well, or covering them so they don't get chewed of course.

Radiant heat in the concrete would have been dreamy. I would have moved out of my trailer and into your kennels;-)

As an FYI, I have purchased a "hound heater with thermostat" for Pika's outdoor dog house for the winter, for those big cold snaps or if she comes home from work super bagged, wet and cold. Otherwise, dog house and straw. I will let you know how it goes.


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Umm sorry I see a lot of what I said was already suggested. Sorry.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I love the idea of the radiant heat for the building.
I have a friend who is a Presa breeder and she has used these in 12-15 insulated dog houses for a few yrs now. 
http://www.houndheater.com/index_hound_heater.php


----------



## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> I love the idea of the radiant heat for the building.
> I have a friend who is a Presa breeder and she has used these in 12-15 insulated dog houses for a few yrs now.
> http://www.houndheater.com/index_hound_heater.php


That is the one I was refering to. Thanks.


----------



## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

for the size of the area wouldnt it be cheaper to just buy a trailer home furnace or a garage heater?


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

jamie lind said:


> for the size of the area wouldnt it be cheaper to just buy a trailer home furnace or a garage heater?



I'd be leary of a traditional heater with the horse barn so close (attached). 
Just me maybe!


----------



## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

but you would have one in your house?


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

jamie lind said:


> but you would have one in your house?


You don't store bales and bales of hay in a house.
A horse barn and fire have always been like oil and water. Of course a modern day barn should be a lot safer especially if fitted with some sort of alarm system because there wouldn't be anyone out there as is the usual for a house.
I would love to have a good heater in my wood working shop but, even with sawdust collectors, that sawdust and open flame of any kind is a bomb waiting to happen.
Storing/stacking/moving hay around creates a similar dust.


----------



## jamie lind (Feb 19, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> You don't store bales and bales of hay in a house.
> A horse barn and fire have always been like oil and water. Of course a modern day barn should be a lot safer especially if fitted with some sort of alarm system because there wouldn't be anyone out there as is the usual for a house.
> I would love to have a good heater in my wood working shop but, even with sawdust collectors, that sawdust and open flame of any kind is a bomb waiting to happen.
> Storing/stacking/moving hay around creates a similar dust.


you should see what i store in my house. this is what horse barns around me use if they heat the barns.
http://www.equinesystems.com/heaters.html


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

jamie lind said:


> you should see what i store in my house. this is what horse barns around me use if they heat the barns.
> http://www.equinesystems.com/heaters.html


They would surely know a lot more about it then me.


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

jamie lind said:


> you should see what i store in my house. this is what horse barns around me use if they heat the barns.
> http://www.equinesystems.com/heaters.html


That's something I'm definitely going to look into. Thanks for that link. The indoor kennel area is completely separated from the rest of the barn (although there is a sliding barn door for access), so the usual barn dust hopefully won't get into the kennel area.

And yes my SAR dogs will be housed in this kennel, among a few others, including my retired USAR dog who is now 11 years old. I do acclimate my SAR dogs to the weather, but my dog is not expected to sleep out in the cold on bare concrete on a mission. And, I search for the federal government so we have nice heated tents to retire to at the end of the shift  

The indoor portion of the runs will not have dog houses in them, and I don't want straw or any other type of bedding in there. I'm not looking to make it tropical, just to take the edge off the cold so none of the dogs freeze to the concrete. 

Thanks, all, for your input.


----------



## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Geoff Empey said:


> Concrete itself when it is bare and has taken on cold really draws heat away fast from paw pads. Tiles are not a bad idea but would most likely take a beating and I'd think wouldn't last long with busy body Malinois.


I was talking about ceramic tiles. You think those wouldn't last long? 



> To bad you weren't able to run the radiant heating elements under the cement itself before you poured the concrete. That would've been ideal, any chance before you get further into the project to lay some radiant elements under a light layer of more concrete?


I know, it would have been nice in the concrete, but it just didn't happen that way. No chance of adding more concrete.



> If you can't do that maybe some rubber horse mats like these? http://www.rubbercal.com/Horse_Stall_Mats.html They seem heavy enough that a dog wouldn't be able to lift them. You could still put the radiant elements under but I suspect that just having the dogs off the cement would be enough especially with an insulated heated dog house. Bonus to something like this in the spring you just move it out and you still have your easy to hose off smooth cement floor again.


I have this type of stall mat over the rock in the runs behind my house. I've even cut them up and put them in wire crates when the stupid plastic trays crack. They are very sturdy and I was thinking of using them for flooring on the indoor section. 

Thanks for the ideas.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Konnie Hein said:


> Thanks, Lee. I appreciate your input. I seriously think a dog would freeze to death in my barn overnight in the winter. Looking for an option to keep them warm if necessary.


The coldest place I've ever experienced was Ellsworth SD. We had radiant floor heat. During the winter we kept the floor at 45 degrees. It worked perfectly. In fact, I was quite surprised at how warm the kennel would be. But then there were days the inside of the freezer were warmer, ha ha. Beautiful country, but my gawd it was cold. 

DFrost


----------



## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> I was talking about ceramic tiles. You think those wouldn't last long?


I was thinking of not permanent rubber or linoleum tiles. Ceramic would be fine but then it would be permanent plus you'd get the dog waste building up on grout. So to me if you were going to do that you might as well add a thin layer of concrete over the elements as it would be the same thing but it would be cheaper and easier to clean. 

What about a pellet boiler and some small flush mount radiators on the outside walls? Like these.. http://www.hydronicalternatives.com/html/radiantpanel.html That way there is no electricity at all in the kennels just a small taco pump to run the heated fluid through. You guys already have a pellet stove so it wouldn't be a totally new thing. Just drill through the cinder blocks and run the PEX pipe and then there there is nothing that a dog could get injured on. 

A lot of those boilers are on a temperature activated switch or can be on a timer.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Konnie Hein said:


> I was talking about ceramic tiles. You think those wouldn't last long?
> 
> 
> I know, it would have been nice in the concrete, but it just didn't happen that way. No chance of adding more concrete.
> ...


I would stay away from tiles...they have grout and grout will break down, and they will be hard to clean...

I would look into an epoxy flooring, if you think you need a floor like they have in vets offices and hospitals...epoxy flooring can be up to 1/2 thick or so, applied in layers, hard surface, non porous, and will outlast your building if applied right...


----------



## Meng Xiong (Jan 21, 2009)

In regards to the hound heaters, ive used both the new version and the old version. I think the older "hound heater II" which uses a lightbulb/convection is much more durable and its cheaper! My bulldog tore the crap out of the newer version's thermostat cover/knob.


----------

