# I could see the pups



## Don Turnipseed

I could see the pups this morning while I was doing yards. It is about 32 degrees and they are two weeks old today. There they were all laying right in the doorway were it is really cool, sleeping. It is snowing again and you would think they woul;d get back in the box where it is protected from the cold breeze. I put my hand on them and they were all toasty warm. All look like they are putting good weight on also. Their eyes should open today or tomorrow. I was going to take a picture but decided not to as I am sure you have all seen pups sleeping.


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## Tammy St. Louis

I have not seen 2 week old pups sleeping outside though , thats worth a pic


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## Don Turnipseed

Tammy St. Louis said:


> I have not seen 2 week old pups sleeping outside though , thats worth a pic


You have never seen 2 week old pups outside!!!! Tammy, I put my coat, gloves and stocking cap on just to take this picture of the pups for you, The first picture is just so you can see the balmy weather. It is sleet right now but it has been switching back and forth from sleet to snow and back to rain all morning and the snow is having a tough time sticking. What I was commenting on is the dog house the pups are in is 3 1/2' by 3'. I was musing that you would think they would get back in a corner in the shavings if they were cold. They are warm as toast to the touch and it is just above 32 besides being soping wet. Pups are 2 weeks today but the weather has been like this since Friday.


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## Ashley Campbell

Hey Don, they're pretty damn cute! 
You would think with the temp being that, they'd stay away from the door of it with the breeze, but obviously if they're nice and warm, they know something we don't.

Question:

Why use wood shavings instead of straw? From what I've understood, straw seems to be a better insulator, but maybe not as absorbent?


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## Don Turnipseed

The floors are elevated and closed in around the bottom and they a 1' thick. The shavings are a better cushion for their hips I think. I never have cared for straw much. In other words, no real reason. LOL


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## Gerry Grimwood

Straw will eventually turn into a big block of frost/ice frozen to the floor.


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## Don Turnipseed

I was just checking to see if Tammy had anything to say. I took the pictures for her and even got my camera wet doing it.


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## Bob Scott

Don, I see your dog houses are made out of OSB. How long does that last in your environment without painting?
Mine are just plywood but the dogs have to come through a dog door in the side of the garage to get into their houses.


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## Don Turnipseed

Bob Scott said:


> Don, I see your dog houses are made out of OSB. How long does that last in your environment without painting?
> Mine are just plywood but the dogs have to come through a dog door in the side of the garage to get into their houses.


The lids are the heavy flooring but they are protected. Haven't really had a problem with the sides but the two x fours that elevate them rot and need replacing periodically. The fronts need replacing also because the dogs eat the entry hole out. I made them pretty simple so I could just wire brush a side off and cut another the same size and glue and screw it over the old one. A few of them are getting pretty darn heavy too.


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## Tammy St. Louis

your funny Don, wellll Now i have seen it, thanks ,,lol
Just a question , ( not a judgement ) why you dont take the mom and pups in your house for whelping? then put them back out when they are older?


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## Bob Scott

Don Turnipseed said:


> The lids are the heavy flooring but they are protected. Haven't really had a problem with the sides but the two x fours that elevate them rot and need replacing periodically. The fronts need replacing also because the dogs eat the entry hole out. I made them pretty simple so I could just wire brush a side off and cut another the same size and glue and screw it over the old one. A few of them are getting pretty darn heavy too.


Have you tried covering the open edges with metal? That worked for one chewer I had. 
Initial firt cost would be hing but using the new plastic type 2x4s would seem a winner in the long run.
"Glue and screw another the same size". 
Just adds another layer of insulation.


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## Don Turnipseed

Tammy St. Louis said:


> your funny Don, wellll Now i have seen it, thanks ,,lol
> Just a question , ( not a judgement ) why you dont take the mom and pups in your house for whelping? then put them back out when they are older?


Bring them in...what for? If they were uncomfortable the would be crying. They are sleeping like babies. I don't bring them in for a couple of reasons actually. The main one is it is healthier for them outside. Next is I can sit there and watch the weak without intervening on their behalf. Another is that I would half to bring in mom, dad aunts....all the dogs involved in the raising of the pups. Another is it isn't uncommon to have 3 litters on the ground.


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## Ashley Campbell

Don Turnipseed said:


> Another is that I would half to bring in mom, dad aunts....all the dogs involved in the raising of the pups.


That's like, what, 2 dogs as closely bred as they are? Just giving you a bad time, Don. 

*sings I'm my own grandpa*


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## Don Turnipseed

Tammy St. Louis said:


> your funny Don, wellll Now i have seen it, thanks ,,lol
> Just a question , ( not a judgement ) why you dont take the mom and pups in your house for whelping? then put them back out when they are older?


Question for you Tammy. How good do you think it would be to raise the pups inside where it is warm for say, 6 weeks, and then putting them out where it is in the 20's and wet. Would you raise pups in the house and put them out in this? Do you think these pups would be better off raised in the house? The first picture is Nero at 6 or 7 weeks. The second is two 8 week old pups. This is healthier than raising them in the house and it really doesn't bother them at all. It only bothers people. On the other hand, humans wouldn't do well raised this way.....but these are dogs.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Straw will eventually turn into a big block of frost/ice frozen to the floor.


Yes I have seen this first hand. So....this doesn't happen to wood shavings? What magically happens to the moisture with wood shavings then?


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## Jennifer Coulter

Don Turnipseed said:


> Question for you Tammy. How good do you think it would be to raise the pups inside where it is warm for say, 6 weeks, and then putting them out where it is in the 20's and wet. Would you raise pups in the house and put them out in this? Do you think these pups would be better off raised in the house? The first picture is Nero at 6 or 7 weeks. The second is two 8 week old pups. This is healthier than raising them in the house and it really doesn't bother them at all. It only bothers people. On the other hand, humans wouldn't do well raised this way.....but these are dogs.


Don't worry Don, even if they are welped inside they can make the transition no problem. I put mine out in much worse than that


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## Don Turnipseed

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Yes I have seen this first hand. So....this doesn't happen to wood shavings? What magically happens to the moisture with wood shavings then?


Not answering you question really Jennifer, but, I have had shavings freeze to the floor. I would think they are much more absorbant that straw. If they were to get damp, say from having puos in the box, I just move the pups over and take the shavings out with a square point shovel and put new ones in...which I am going to do today since it is supposed to snow again and drop back to the low 20's. I can't really compare the straw to the shavings because I have never used the straw.


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## Alice Bezemer

nice pups Don 

looking comfy as hell as well


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## Jennifer Coulter

Don Turnipseed said:


> Not answering you question really Jennifer, but, I have had shavings freeze to the floor. I would think they are much more absorbant that straw. If they were to get damp, say from having puos in the box, I just move the pups over and take the shavings out with a square point shovel and put new ones in...which I am going to do today since it is supposed to snow again and drop back to the low 20's. I can't really compare the straw to the shavings because I have never used the straw.


Thanks Don. Straw is cheaper for me here than shavings and I guess I need to change it often because of the dogs going in snowy (then melting) all the time. I was wondering if shavings where somehow superior when it came to moisture...

I feel like straw might be warmer too? Dunno though. I can pack more in there for the dog to nest into when it is super cold. The dogs are single in the kennel so no other dogs to help keep them warm.


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## Gerry Grimwood

We used to turn the dogs houses on their sides and stuff them full, dogs would push their way in and spin to make a pocket..they loved it but straw has to be changed often as you know.


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## Jennifer Coulter

Gerry Grimwood said:


> We used to turn the dogs houses on their sides and stuff them full, dogs would push their way in and spin to make a pocket..they loved it but straw has to be changed often as you know.


I know I have asked this before Gerry, can you remind me how often you changed it?

Sorry for the hijack Don, the pups look great.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Jennifer Coulter said:


> I know I have asked this before Gerry, can you remind me how often you changed it?


If it was real cold I'd dump the houses out every couple of days and scrape out the frozen straw, fill it back up with what wasn't frozen and fresh stuff, or you can wait till the side of their ass they sleep on has straw frozen on it 

Hey Don, the pups look great..did you have a good crop this year ??


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## Don Turnipseed

Gerry Grimwood said:


> If it was real cold I'd dump the houses out every couple of days and scrape out the frozen straw, fill it back up with what wasn't frozen and fresh stuff, or you can wait till the side of their ass they sleep on has straw frozen on it
> 
> Hey Don, the pups look great..did you have a good crop this year ??


Nothing spectacular Gerry. 22 I think. This German pup will put out 22 in two litters with the new genes.


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## Gerry Grimwood

Don Turnipseed said:


> Nothing spectacular Gerry. 22 I think. This German pup will put out 22 in two litters with the new genes.


Those are pure genes though :razz:

I have a new neighbor with Airdales, 3 of em. Pretty sure they are from showlines, but they are nice loking dogs and big too. I'm gonna talk to him someday and get the skinny on his dogs.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

22 pups in a year? Out of how many bitches? Interesting given that you don't regulate them. I thought you recently had several litters on the ground? 

T


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## Don Turnipseed

Four bitches


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## Gerry Grimwood

Don Turnipseed said:


> Four bitches


Walked into a bar, staggered up to the bartender and said....


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## Ashley Campbell

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Walked into a bar, staggered up to the bartender and said....


Is this the set for Jersey Shore?


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## Don Turnipseed

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> 22 pups in a year? Out of how many bitches? Interesting given that you don't regulate them. I thought you recently had several litters on the ground?
> 
> T


I did T, 3 at one time and two individual litters making 5. One bitch went back to back bitch, For two bitches, it was the first time they had litters in about 15 mo. There are 9 bitches in the yards that are always with males. Unfortunatly, most people think if the males and females are together like this, they are going to just breed like rabbits. They just don't know because they have never done it. Seems there are a lot of wives tales based on supposition in the dog world. They haven't figured out yet that nature has it's own checks and balances. All we do is screw up those checks and balances. While they breed every cycle, they don't take every cycle. Two of the bitches that produced this year haven't had pups for about 15 mo. One bitch that was a first timer didn't go back to back but her sister did. When they are ready, they will take.

I may have regulate a few things with this new pup if the new genes boost the litters back to 10 to 14 pups a litter because I would be over run with pups in short order. That same 5 litters could be 60 pups. Don't want that so I will have to be carefull how I use him. The older bitches are first in line regardless. Come spring I am going to have to split one of the yards because the male pup makes 6 males for 5 yards and this pup isn't going in with any of my males as he gets older and there are bitches in heat around. In short, it is nothing but a PITA. The worst part is I have been cutting the numbers of dogs, now I am going to have to start holding dogs back again. That is not what I really want at this point but there is no way around it. While adding the German lines is exciting for sure.....it is the only thing that is exciting me about this.


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## Tammy St. Louis

i would say the pups raised in the house can deffinalty transition to being outside, by 8 weeks
a little exposure everyday , 
i am not saying its right or wrong, really ,, do what you do , it doesnt matter to me, if it works for you and people buy your pups or you get them into homes you like , go for it


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Yes. but look how you wrote it. It bothers you that the pups are born and raised outside.

Hilarious.


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## Tammy St. Louis

I'll be honest, it does bother me, I am a super softy in my heart for dogs, I always want the best for them all, I am not really someone who judges others though, if what you do works for you than who am i to say its wrong, 
i also understand the " working dog " thought process as i hang with dog sledders in the winter, and respect thier way , it works for them ,


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## Jeff Oehlsen

That is the best for those pups, they look super fat and content. If they were all miserable, they would not be were you could see them through the door like that. 

Been on enough dog rescue runs in the winter to know that. They would be really skinny and crying as well.


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## Joby Becker

it would be much worse to raise a puppy in a warm house and then turn him out in a cold winter I surmise...than having it experience the weather from day one...


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## Ashley Campbell

Joby Becker said:


> it would be much worse to raise a puppy in a warm house and then turn him out in a cold winter I surmise...than having it experience the weather from day one...


This is pretty close to dead on. When I moved to Upstate NY from AZ (it was February) my dogs were MISERABLE going to the extreme cold like that. They had no tolerance for it and would shake and shiver just going out to take a leak.
I got my GSD in NY, also in the winter. She'd been used to being outside and she lays out in the snow on her back here.


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## maggie fraser

My jrt came from a whelp and raise outside scenario in winter, wee blighter had a chill for damn weeks after. He's fine now .


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## Don Turnipseed

Just for the record, the summer heat is way far harder on the pups than the winter cold. Nature designed canines to be born in the cold part of spring for a reason. I put misters over the houses in the summer to keep them cooler and to keep the biting flies from killing them. Two misters have to be run, full blast, in the doorways so the flies won't fly through.


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## Terrasita Cuffie

Don Turnipseed said:


> I did T, 3 at one time and two individual litters making 5. One bitch went back to back bitch, For two bitches, it was the first time they had litters in about 15 mo. There are 9 bitches in the yards that are always with males. Unfortunatly, most people think if the males and females are together like this, they are going to just breed like rabbits. They just don't know because they have never done it. Seems there are a lot of wives tales based on supposition in the dog world. They haven't figured out yet that nature has it's own checks and balances. All we do is screw up those checks and balances. While they breed every cycle, they don't take every cycle. Two of the bitches that produced this year haven't had pups for about 15 mo. One bitch that was a first timer didn't go back to back but her sister did. When they are ready, they will take.
> 
> I may have regulate a few things with this new pup if the new genes boost the litters back to 10 to 14 pups a litter because I would be over run with pups in short order. That same 5 litters could be 60 pups. Don't want that so I will have to be carefull how I use him. The older bitches are first in line regardless. Come spring I am going to have to split one of the yards because the male pup makes 6 males for 5 yards and this pup isn't going in with any of my males as he gets older and there are bitches in heat around. In short, it is nothing but a PITA. The worst part is I have been cutting the numbers of dogs, now I am going to have to start holding dogs back again. That is not what I really want at this point but there is no way around it. While adding the German lines is exciting for sure.....it is the only thing that is exciting me about this.


 
I'm curious, which generation you are on now and which generation(s) the 5 mothers are from.

T


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## Don Turnipseed

Some are producing 10th generation pups, a couple produce 11th generation pups. BlackJack and Palin are 11 generation Dogs


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## Bob Scott

Joby Becker said:


> it would be much worse to raise a puppy in a warm house and then turn him out in a cold winter I surmise...than having it experience the weather from day one...



I hate it when the wether men on TV tell folks to be sure and bring the dogs in when it get really cold. If they are outside dogs and have a proper house and protection from the wind (most important) then leave them out.
Yrs ago my wife talked me into bringing in three outside dogs because it got very cold. Within 10 -15 mins they were at the back door panting and whining to get out. 
My outside dogs have ALWAYS had double walled, insulated houses. Today their dog houses are inside the garage to boot!


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## Ashley Campbell

I think those warnings are for the idiots that don't seem to understand that the dog needs shelter - like the one a few years ago that was found frozen to the sidewalk! The only reason it survived was because it was obese.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28072038/


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## Don Turnipseed

Here is the pictures of them at 4 1/2 weeks. This is with no ENS.
This picture is how they react when I call them from outside the pen which is open 



























This picture show them doing what they do.


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## Ashley Campbell

Damn they're cute!


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## Gerry Grimwood

Don Turnipseed said:


>


I'll take the one with the dark legs and the "get outa my way" look in it eyes.


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## Chris McDonald

Tammy St. Louis said:


> I always want the best for them all
> 
> 
> “I always want the best for them all” Ah, the irony


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## Tammy St. Louis

why is that ironic?


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## Don Turnipseed

Here they are at 5 1/2 weeks. It is in the low 40's and has been pouring for 2 days and night and is supposed to keep raining through next weekend. Please note the grass growing. Grows evey year.


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