# akitas as working dogs ?



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

don't know how popular this breed is in the states but curious if any of you have seen them in SchH or other ring sports. I have had numerous discussions with Japanese owners as to why they don't use this breed in competition or in protection work. My personal opinion is they would do well with proper breeding. Have had MANY conversations with our two Japanese mwd handlers on a nearby navy base, who both have Mals and prefer them over gsd's, and they seem to think it is mostly a "cutural" reluctance against developing the breed for protection beyond the traditional Japanese breeding philosophy. kinda like companion dogs are 99.9% yellow labs .... "always done it that way" attitude

Unfortunately most of the ones I see are unruly pets that have become problems for their owners but I could see a lot of potential if they were raised properly with a protection goal in mind. They are a healthy breed that has not been watered down like the gsd and their spirit, stamina and agility more than makes up for their relatively small size, and they definitely have the jaw strength


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

No, I think it would be so rare to find one that re-creating that event is out of the question.


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## Kristin Jakubczak (Jan 17, 2011)

I have only seen them being used as yard dogs. Never actually competing in sports. I'm sure with the right trainer and dog, anything is possible though.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: They are a healthy breed that has not been watered down like the gsd and their spirit, stamina and agility more than makes up for their relatively small size, and they definitely have the jaw strength 

Uhhh, yes they have been watered down considerably. Most have no willingness whatsoever. I saw ONE over the years that was protection trained and trained very well. ONE.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

rick smith said:


> don't know how popular this breed is in the states but curious if any of you have seen them in SchH or other ring sports. I have had numerous discussions with Japanese owners as to why they don't use this breed in competition or in protection work. My personal opinion is they would do well with proper breeding. Have had MANY conversations with our two Japanese mwd handlers on a nearby navy base, who both have Mals and prefer them over gsd's, and they seem to think it is mostly a "cutural" reluctance against developing the breed for protection beyond the traditional Japanese breeding philosophy. kinda like companion dogs are 99.9% yellow labs .... "always done it that way" attitude
> 
> Unfortunately most of the ones I see are unruly pets that have become problems for their owners but I could see a lot of potential if they were raised properly with a protection goal in mind. They are a healthy breed that has not been watered down like the gsd and their spirit, stamina and agility more than makes up for their relatively small size, and they definitely have the jaw strength


 The akita is not a breed I would choose to work with. But thats just me.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

There are some around here and my sister owns one. For me, it's like anything else, the good ones are hard to find and IMO better breeds for sport of PP are out there.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

quote: Uhhh, yes they have been watered down considerably. Most have no willingness whatsoever. I saw ONE over the years that was protection trained and trained very well. ONE.

...fwiw, i said in comparison to the gsd breed 
a neighbor has a 17 year old that gets out every day rain or shine.....the dog doesn't hear much and has pretty white eyes but still has spring in his step, and old age hasn't made him fearful of strangers....how many 17 year old shepherds do you see like that ?

the small shibas certainly have been watered down and they are a dime a dozen ... but i think akitas have had much better care taken to keep the breed pure, and "willingness" can be interpreted a lot of different ways  would never consider them an "easy" dog to train but that doesn't make em a bad choice imo

re: "over the years" ... not sure if you are referring to akitas in the states or japanese akitas 
... a lot of air force guys used to get pups when they left japan and this breed would certainly become a problem child as a "yard dog" if the poster was referring to a dog whose world was a backyard with no training ... that would apply to any breed

I've been here about 17 years and have been around a lot of akitas but only worked closely with five or six. i'm sure i'll never get around to it, but from what i've seen, I do feel there is a lot of untapped potential in this breed when in the right hands with a breeder who wanted to develop a protection line or a sport line


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

I saw an Akita Inu in Manchester, UK, Show Ring and from his external tributes, it would be a dog I would love to own. This is not a small dog!! 

However, I like Samoyedes (my cousin bred them) and Malamutes but, and this is a big but....

You just have to forget these breeds if you wish to do sports at a certain level. I'm not saying they can't do any sports, they certainly seem to have athletic bodies, but try finding someone who is willing to help you (especially in protection sports).

I knew a performance judge who bred Berger de Picardie and he trialled with them. One day he said to me that he was tired of being second best and wanted to prove that he could mingle among the best. He bought a GSD or Malinois (not sure which). This is what usually happens to handlers who train with exotic breeds. The ambitious handler becomes dissatisfied and feels he could achieve more with a popular sports breed, especially in protection sports and so he opts out to a Malinois or GSD that will better reflect his talents.

If you are not out to show off your talents, then by all means, try the breed of your choice. I started off with a Landseer (white and black Newfoundland) and trialled with him to my satisfaction. It was interesting to work with him and helped me a lot to understand how an off-breed can excel at certain disciplines and the work involved in motivating such breeds is "unbezahlbar"!! (Not to be measured in gold?)

Gill


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

This breed has a lot of background in dog fighting when not being bred for fur doesn't it?

Not a breed I personally like too much.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Watered down is not the correct term, in the US breeders have, over time, systematically eliminated any dog that showed aggression from the gene pool, what you have today are purely, and I mean purely, show dogs bred for pinto colors, beauty and sweet temperment, there is no such thing as a working gene pool for akitas, never was.

I always idolized them as a youth though, and in their origional form, say 30-40 years ago, they were hands down the most formidable domesticated canine on earth, if you dont aknowledge that, you dont know akitas as they were.........

Amazing amazing dog, but unless you have a time machine, your not going to see a real akita, sad but true.


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## Ricardo Ashton (Jun 3, 2010)

Maggie I think you're thinking of the Tosa Inu. And to date Akitas still are used as police dogs in Japan, though somewhat less than in previous years.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

From the peke to the akita I've never been a big fan of the Asian breeds. To chowlike for want of a better description.
When I was active in AKC OB there was a couple that bred, showed and "competed" with them. Both good trainers but never near the top with their Akitas in the OB ring. Fact is I've never seen ANY that I would consider very good. 
They had a couple that would be great yard dogs. I just never saw anything that would show me they had enough to be a working K9. It's also another breed that Americans have take in a different direction as to type. ](*,)


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## Shane Woodlief (Sep 9, 2009)

They are a healthy breed that has not been watered down like the gsd and their spirit, stamina and agility more than makes up for their relatively small size, and they definitely have the jaw strength [/QUOTE]



Ricardo Ashton said:


> Maggie I think you're thinking of the Tosa Inu. And to date Akitas still are used as police dogs in Japan, though somewhat less than in previous years.


I have owned one of these in the past as family pet. Ok family pet for a family with a fenced in yard.

That being said they would be absolutely useless as a sport dog. Your comment about comparing them to the GSD IMO is inaccurate. 

Akitas a breed are too independent - to stubborn, too animal aggressive and have all kinds of health issues. These dog do not travel well - they do not do well outside of their home/territory environments. 

Stamina?? My akita and the others I have seen seem/was quite lazy.

Maggie is right they were used as fighting dogs and were actually crossed breed with Tosas to increase their size. They eventually gave way to the Tosa. 

Akitas almost died out but in the mid- 20th century were brought back - recreated. I think that they are breeds that would do well in back yards, farms and the show circuit looking pretty but not as sport dogs. I cannot think of one serious breeder claiming to breed "working" akitas. There may be just not to my knowledge.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

I had a big female for about 4 years. My experience with her is the same as Shanes'.


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Ricardo Ashton said:


> Maggie I think you're thinking of the Tosa Inu. And to date Akitas still are used as police dogs in Japan, though somewhat less than in previous years.


 
No, I wasn't thinking of the Tosa, the Tosa Inu is a very different dog. Here's a link I found to be quite informative on the Akita..

http://www.japaneseakita-inu.co.uk/Files/History.htm


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## Peta Het (Feb 13, 2011)

I have had several Akitas. They were all GREAT family dogs. One female was able to work a bit. She also excelled at obedience and had no dog aggression. I tried working one of the males but he just did not have the drive for it. 

When I was training my Dobie there was a guy in the group that had a japanese type Akita - smaller. It did ok, mostly defensive drive though.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: Ricardo Ashton posted....
<snip> ... And to date Akitas still are used as police dogs in Japan, though somewhat less than in previous years.
...nope; they are not used now and are not a source breed for the NPDA

that was confirmed to me when i checked at the Nagasaki academy at Isahaya which trains PSD's

there are of course "asian" breeds used in protection ...Jindos in Korea for both civil law enforcement and military work...."heard" years ago LAPD was going to evaluate that breed, but never confirmed it

I could care less about the yard dogs and AKC show dogs, but obviously american akitas HAVE been "watered down" as much as the poor old gsd breed in that regard.....that's the only comparison i made to akitas and gsd's, and am sure glad there are still breeders of working shepherds in the states; wish there were a lot more but doubt it will ever come close to the beauty show breeders

akitas in Japan are a different breed i guess, but i give a lot of credibility to the two Japanese mwd handlers I know. both have worked for the US military for over 20 years and seen a lot of mwd's and their handlers come and go. both are ANTI-gsd based on that experience, and mostly it's due to health problems which all too often result a short "service life". one guy is old school and one is OC oriented, but both seem to think akitas would be great protection dogs if breeders selected properly and the system would be flexible enuff to work them. they both feel the main reason against it is the Japanese would not want to develop a "police dog" image for the akita. 
... I guess over here, as is probably the case in anywhere, it's just easier to just keep repeating the past than think outside the box

and fwiw, I've seen their dogs work and they are both aggressive, fast, hard hitters ... they are also lazy slugs in their mini vans and the only mwd's who don't require their handler to yell at em to shut up when anyone walks by while on base


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

What base is this that has Japanese (they have an army) handlers working there ?


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Rick I live close to the Dover Air Force Base in Delaware (20 minutes). I can tell you that in 50 years of being in the area, I haven't seen too many brought back or used by the military families, even those stationed in Japan.

Of the "breeders" in the county, I see stuff that looks to me to be poor quality. Now before the BANSAI crowd gets me, I'm sure there are some very good ones out there...just not seem them from my playground! :mrgreen:

I'd rather spend my time with something more well known and pedigree lines that I could look into for health issues. How many Red Setters do you ever see? Of the birddogs/waterdogs out there, limits are on Chessies and Labs...lots around here!!!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

rick smith said:


> akitas in Japan are a different breed i guess,


I was in Japan in 1990, I was there training horses (imported horses) for a short spell, Kanagawa Prefecture about sixty odd miles south of Tokyo. I came across a few, they were large, noisy beasts which lived outside in a cage of their respective houses, barking, and barking. They were similar to the ones I have seen here in the UK since, they've been a problematic breed here due to aggression toward both other animals and humans.

You don't see as many about here these days.


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