# The gunshot introduction.



## Jaimie Van Orden (Dec 3, 2008)

This is a question I am just putting out there, because I was recently given two very different answers, by people I have seen successfully train dogs. 
How do you introduce your puppy to a gunshot? 
What works, what doesn't and why not?


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

I take them as pups up to the training field, and let them hang out while the gun is being used in training. If it's a litter I've bred, they are usually on the field off to one side in an x-pen starting around 5 weeks. If it's a pup I've gotten from someone else, it's still the same deal. We go to training, at some point I get them out and they hang out with me while the gun is being used.

My current pup who I got at 8 weeks I took with me to an FR trial and we sat on the sidelines. He heard the gun and looked around curiously, after a few more times of it going off he quit bothering to look.


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jaimie Van Orden said:


> This is a question I am just putting out there, because I was recently given two very different answers, by people I have seen successfully train dogs.
> How do you introduce your puppy to a gunshot?
> What works, what doesn't and why not?


We start gun shot exposure when our pups are about a week old in the form of a CD I have with about 90 different sounds on it. It has many types of gun fire, it also has jet airlplanes, sirens, dogs barking, kids screaming, etc, just a bunch of different very loud random sounds to include gun fire.
They listen to this for several hours each day. 
When they are about 3 1/2 weeks old and they begin to eat on their own I start to introduce actual loud noises to them (not in the form of a CD, but real gun fire and other loud random sounds)
I walk outside, fire one or two shots, then walk over and put their food down for them.
After about two meals they hear the shots and come forward looking for food.
I start off with a small caliber blank gun, then move on to a larger blank gun after a few days, then a .45 ACP. We dont ever have dogs here with gun fire issues that we introduce in ths manner.


----------



## Jaimie Van Orden (Dec 3, 2008)

mike suttle said:


> We start gun shot exposure when our pups are about a week old in the form of a CD I have with about 90 different sounds on it. It has many types of gun fire, it also has jet airlplanes, sirens, dogs barking, kids screaming, etc, just a bunch of different very loud random sounds to include gun fire.
> They listen to this for several hours each day.


I find this interesting, my mentor in show dogs plays a CD she mixed on her computer, some heavy metal rock, some thunderstorms, and some random loud noises, gunshots, slamming car doors, screaming kids etc for her puppies and until this last litter in 40 years of breeding never had a noise shy litter. This litter of three is ALL noise shy, they are now 15 months old. Any thoughts on this?

-note- she obviously did not always use a CD haha they haven't been around long enough she started with just a loud radio


----------



## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Jaimie Van Orden said:


> I find this interesting, my mentor in show dogs plays a CD she mixed on her computer, some heavy metal rock, some thunderstorms, and some random loud noises, gunshots, slamming car doors, screaming kids etc for her puppies and until this last litter in 40 years of breeding never had a noise shy litter. This litter of three is ALL noise shy, they are now 15 months old. Any thoughts on this?
> 
> -note- she obviously did not always use a CD haha they haven't been around long enough she started with just a loud radio


If it is an issue with every pup in the litter it could either be bad nerves genetically from that particular breeding combination, or it may be from some tramatic experience that they had when the entire litter was still together. I had a Norweigen Elkhound when I was a kid that I used to shoot around all the time and he never had a gun shy issue. One day when he was about 7 months old (I was about 12 I guess) a friend and I were setting off M-80s blowing up anthills and cool shit that kids used to do with M-80s. Anyway we put on in a beer bottel and threw the bottle, the dog chased the bottle and it exploded just when he was about to pick it up. That was obviously a bad experience for that 7 month old pup and from that day on he would hide when he heard a gun shot, or any loud noise.
My point is that is all the puppies in the litter are gun shy, and the breeder has experience in exposing the dogs to gun shots correctly, then it is likely from something out of the breeders control.
What breed is it we're talking about?
I will say that I have seen plenty of dogs that were never exposed to gun shots at all that had no issies with it what so ever, but i just like to expose all of mine in the manner i described to prevent any potential issues.


----------



## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

I train neutrality to gunfire like this:

As a pup, or young dog, I take them to the range and park the car at a distance, windows closed. They become acclimated pretty quickly to the gunfire. Next, I take them out and play ball, or do some light OB at a distance. I keep it all fun, and don't pay any attention to the gunfire in the background. 

Then, I move the vehicle a bit closer, with every session. I leave the windows up, or partially up, which muffles the sound a bit. Repeat as necessary: every dog is different, so their progression is very individual as well. I have had great luck with this method. I like a dog that is gunfire neutral. If the dog hears it, and glances toward it, then refocuses, I personally don't see that as faulty...maybe for strictly a sport dog there are point deduction issues, but I prefer a dog that is attentive to it's environment, so I don't personally have a big issue with it, though some may disagree.

I have considered using the gundog training CD's, and if anyone should know about gunfire issues, it should be the gundog people. I think it's important to steal....errrr...."borrow" every tool we can from other venues...maybe it will be very valid for the working dog crowd as well. I'll let you know how it works out if I give it a shot at some point. Since not everyone has the ability to be near a range with any frequency, this might be a viable option.


----------



## Jaimie Van Orden (Dec 3, 2008)

I started this because of the work I'm doing with a golden pup, but the sound sensitive litter is a litter of tervs.
The single male was placed in a pet home, is very social and it is only evident he is sound sensitive during storms or fireworks. Its not such a big deal for them as they won't do much with him other than have him as a pet. The bitch my mentor kept, is very sound shy and will be shown, finished and spayed. The other bitch I got when she was 11 months old. My mentor is elderly, and this bitch was trying to challenge her in a way she is not well enough to deal with. Not food motivated, and a whole set of training issues in her own. 
The dam was an imported bitch from strictly show lines, and a bitch we had talked about never breeding but while she was in the hospital her husband had an oopsie breeding, thank the goddess it was only 3. The bitch is spayed now. I think it is very likely genetic.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

I start with a cap gun I got at the Dollar Tree. $1 for the cap gun and $1 per 96 shot 8 ring caps. You can spend <$5 and desensitize any puppy to gunfire pretty easy


----------



## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

The local range has an archery range near their gun ranges that is never used, so perfect little training field. I started by working my dog up for the toy before we pulled into the parking lot or I'd wait for a cease fire. Get out of the car and immediately start throwing a toy. I started as far away as I could get and would always throw the toy towards the gunfire (he was more neutral to it if he was going for the toy rather than bringing it back) then moved closer little by little. I always made sure to make that game of fetch as fast and as intense as I could. Before he wore out, I'd put him up in the truck and drove off. Always wanted to stop when he was feeling the best. I did that every Sunday morning for a month or so. Last couple times I went we did obedience right behind the firing line. No problems since then. I was fortunate that I have a dog that loves to fetch and a local gun range that was really cool about it, might have been harder otherwise. I fed him out there a couple times too, but the game of fetch really did the most good for him.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

I start at a distance and do kind of like Mike in so far as I tie food to the gunfire. The dog quickly learns to move toward it without fear. If the dog is fearful you will see it pretty quickly (barring a traumatic thing happening out of your control).


----------



## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

I use a 22 blank sometimes but the Cowboy Mounted Shooting Edition CD works great. It has 31 sound tracks and I can start the CD and go to work so I'm training at the same time. Make sure you start off with it very low so it is not a distraction, just something that is going on in the background. It comes for www.spookless.com if your interested.


----------



## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Gerald Dunn said:


> I use a 22 blank sometimes but the Cowboy Mounted Shooting Edition CD works great. It has 31 sound tracks and I can start the CD and go to work so I'm training at the same time. Make sure you start off with it very low so it is not a distraction, just something that is going on in the background. It comes for www.spookless.com if your interested.


Real cool Gerald ...thanks!


----------



## Jaimie Van Orden (Dec 3, 2008)

Brian Anderson said:


> I start at a distance and do kind of like Mike in so far as I tie food to the gunfire. The dog quickly learns to move toward it without fear. .


This is what I did with the young golden that I recently took the field and had great success. I just wondered what everyone else did.


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

I go to a field. A soccer field will do. I throw the ball, the moment the dog gets the ball...Fire....then if I see no probs. A shot half way back. Then I have a another ball....show it to the dog, and when the jump and grab it...shot. 

Here's a video of Alice. The second shot she hears the echo off a mobile home the cops use for dope searches. 

I like to work the gun shots in drive. I think it's safer than just staring at them and hoping they will be okay. 

If I do not see anything...I leave it alone. The only thing you can do to a dog that's good with gunfire is keep doing it, and then make em' weird about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAYonKWB2Js&feature=related


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I started my last dog from about 150 yrds away from where my son and his buddy were shooting trap. I was playing fetch. The pup had a very high drive for that. 
I just kept making throws in the direction of the two shooting. If the dog showed any notice of the noise I would have backed off but he never did all the way up to and behind the shooters. 
As an older 8 yr old dog now he's started to show small reactions to thunder (starts pacing in the yard) but guns still create no reaction from him. I understand that can happen sometimes as a dog ages. 
Normally I would start out making a lot of banging noises (pots and pans, cap guns) while the pup is eating but this situation was there and I took it.


----------



## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

This is interesting. None of mine have been exposed to close gunfire, so not sure how they would react. My farm borders a hunt club, so they are near it. 
I noticed the Dutch that came from a LE trainer goes nuts running barking towards the shots, and thunder, so she reacts. I'll get my son to shoot and see what she does if its closer range. My guess is try to get to him.


----------



## Keith A. Rodgers (Oct 14, 2011)

Any way to fix an older dog thats gunshy?


----------



## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Keith, re: your Q ..... 
background : my dog was sleeping on its side in an enclosed shopping arcade under my table when i was drinking coffee (think giant beercan) .. a drunk Ja idiot walks over towards our table and tossed a wad of lit firecrackers (maybe 20-30) at my table ... some landed within five feet......dog practically jumped out of its skin
----after that incident was over i couldn't get the dog to even ENTER the arcade let alone go back to where the table was in front of the coffee shop.....he would start shaking when he saw the arcade entrance :-(
..... took about 6months of daily D/C but he's fine now and we stop there for coffee 3-4 times a week....he'll crash but he won't go to sleep there anymore and it isn't one of his favorite places :-(
- fwiw, i let him bite the Ja guy a few months later  (cops laffed when they showed up ... but that's another story)

so even tho many will probably tell you no way, my answer is yes, (if you are patient and know what D/C means) and this is one reason why i feel that way


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Keith A. Rodgers said:


> Any way to fix an older dog thats gunshy?


I have a friend who's dog had issues with gun fire. He would get up from the long down & go to her. So I had her meet me at the local outdoor shooting range & we just walked around the parking lot with the dog on a loose lead, ignoring him, talking to each other until the dog was normal at that distance. Then moved a little closer and so on. In my friends case I think it was her nervous anticipation, the dog has a little bit of nerve issues & then her over reaction once he reacted. When I was able to get her mind off the dog and when the dog was able to see no matter what he did we were just going to keep walking around, coupled with getting used to the sound, he became normal to gun fire. 


My husband shoots a lot of 5 stand, skeet, trap and sporting clays, so my own dogs have always been around gunfire, but at the same time, I don't take them when they are little puppies and I have never had a dog show a bad reaction by the time I do start taking them. Just lucky I guess.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Keith A. Rodgers said:


> Any way to fix an older dog thats gunshy?


If it's genetic vs learned, IMO you can cover it up if the dog has enough drive, but you can't really fix it. If it's learned, and it was just one bad experience, and the dog has good nerves, you might be able to fix it, but there is a lot if if, maybe, might in that statement.

Its basically a case of exposing the dog with the gunfire at a distance, whatever distance is neccesary for them to be able to tolerate it, while also putting them into drive. I did it with a dog years ago and we had someone way on the other end of the field with a gun, we'd get the dog really fired up for a tug, get him as crazy as we could, and right at the moment he was allowed to bite it the gun would go off. He'd flinch a little but the drive overroad the fear and then he'd get an active game of tug and win. Repeat, over and over, and slowly move the gun closer over a period of time. I put a Brevet on that dog in a trial that used full load .38 blanks, in an indoor arena with a metal roof. Then I placed him in a new home that put Sch, agility and obedience titles on him, because I just didn't want to always cross my fingers during a gun exercise, and IMO any dog with a gun issue isn't breeding material, regardless of what else they bring to the table in terms of drives, grips, etc.

I suppose I should add that the way I introduce my pups to guns is in part a test, I want to see if any of them have an issue with it so I know what they are like genetically. If I see a problem, then I'll work one on one with that pup, but it also goes into the mental notes that pup doesn't have as good of nerves sound wise. My newest pup, if he'd shown issues at the FR trial, wouldn't be with me anymore, I'd have sent him back or rehomed him. But I understand some people won't do that, they buy it, they keep it, and they will just work it through the issues as best they can, so they might not want to take my "sink or swim" attitude about introducing things.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Do what some birddog folks do, use 2 pieces of cut 2x4 wood and clap them together. Sounds like a .22 shot. Always start from a distance.

My GSD puppy was exposed at 7 weeks to every loud sound from .45 to .223 and at a distance of 50 yards. No reaction.

Since each animal is different, distance is the best way to go. Try banging two metal feeds pans together and done at feeding time, the pup will associate the noise with something good!


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> Do what some birddog folks do, use 2 pieces of cut 2x4 wood and clap them together. Sounds like a .22 shot. Always start from a distance.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I was the "gunfire guy" at an ATTS test and someone forgot the
> ...


----------



## Harry Keely (Aug 26, 2009)

I usually start with a 50 cal round:-o and work my way backwards to a 22, just joking.

I also have a CD and start as soon as ears open with the sounds, play a differing volumes and differing lengths of time, then moved out to a friends field and introduce gun fire from time to time along with other sounds pretty much up until they leave and so far knock on wood have yet to have a enviromental issue, we also load up the pups and take them to many different places as well and expose to alot of differing surfaces, traffic, crowds and so forth and so on.


----------



## Tim Connell (Apr 17, 2010)

Tim Connell said:


> I train neutrality to gunfire like this:
> 
> As a pup, or young dog, I take them to the range and park the car at a distance, windows closed. They become acclimated pretty quickly to the gunfire. Next, I take them out and play ball, or do some light OB at a distance. I keep it all fun, and don't pay any attention to the gunfire in the background.
> 
> ...


...and, since I thought about this thread a bit today:

I feel it's important to place a great deal of emphasis on neutrality to gunfire, since you don't want to ingrain that aggressive reaction to gunfire if it often comes from the decoy, so the dog starts looking for a bite every time it hears gunfire. The last thing you want either at training, or a real situation is a dog hanging off you or one of your partners as you are trying to deliver gunfire toward an adversary. It likely puts you at a significant disadvantage in a gunfight to have your dog chomped down on your arm as you try to deliver effective shots downrange.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Tim Connell said:


> ...and, since I thought about this thread a bit today:
> 
> I feel it's important to place a great deal of emphasis on neutrality to gunfire,


Agree. The correct response to gunfire for a PSD is -- no response.

DFrost


----------



## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

David Frost said:


> Agree. The correct response to gunfire for a PSD is -- no response.
> 
> DFrost


Maybe this is why I ended up with my Dutch bitch.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

julie allen said:


> Maybe this is why I ended up with my Dutch bitch.


I say that, and it truly is the correct response. My experience however is; after some time, many PSD's will have a comeapart during gunfire, ha ha. Not a fear type but a who am I gonna bite next type.

DFrost


----------



## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

I can see that happening. She tried to eat me up once when I picked up the lunge whip moving the horses lol. That was when she first got here, she is much better with me now.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Agree. The correct response to gunfire for a PSD is -- no response.
> 
> DFrost



Also desired in the Schutzhund gun fire test.


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

julie allen said:


> I can see that happening. She tried to eat me up once when I picked up the lunge whip moving the horses lol. That was when she first got here, she is much better with me now.


Could it be the whip was part of her bitework, also?


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Bob Scott said:


> As an older 8 yr old dog now he's started to show small reactions to thunder (starts pacing in the yard) but guns still create no reaction from him. I understand that can happen sometimes as a dog ages.


I've heard of this before, and now I've seen it. I have an older dog, almost 13, she still has no reaction to gunfire (OK, she gets excited LOL), thunder, fireworks, etc. But a couple of years ago I got a bread maker as a gift, and it beeps at different times during the bread making process. There is something about that beep, the pitch or ??? that sends her into a complete fit. Stress first, and if the beeping doesn't stop she'll get to the point of drooling even. Microwave, oven, timers, none of these phase her in the least and they all beep, but that bread maker, oh yeah. I finally just boxed it up because after I used it a few times all I had to do was get it out and she'd start to stress. I was afraid she'd start to generalize to other beeping things, and I can always just make bread the old fashioned way. 

I've talked to other people who have seen similar things happen as their dogs age. I can only guess it's because there are some changes in their hearing as they age, I really don't know.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Wow, I'm surprised at the amount of conditioning that goes into this for some. The one that would need the conditioning is me. I'd be the one making the dog look nervy. By the time I got through jumping clean out of my skin, I'd make them show a reaction. I take puppies out and work dogs during all the 4th of July stuff--one of the perks of city living. Its like a frickin war zone and takes several days for all the smoke to clear. With stock work, guns are going off all the time during hunting season which can negatively affect the sound sensitive types. Now that I've joined the ranks of country folk, I'll have to drive farther for testing spots. I've called age 8 and beyond the age of change. With Thor, suddenly he had prey and object drive. He had zero as a young dog. He also became more social. Had zero use for strange adults as a young dog. Khira will be 8 in May. Her prey reactivity has definitely lessened and she's more handler responsive and actually cares about my pressure. She was spayed a couple of weeks ago and her thyroid was on the low normal side. I'm going to wait a couple of months and test that with Dr. Dodds. She notices things I drop now when before I could have dropped them on her head and she wouldn't have paid any attention to it. She still doesn't pay any attention to gun shots or storms. She doesn't prey trigger on puppies anymore. She rolls around in the floor with my corgi pups and they can do no wrong. I think there are CNS changes with age and suddenly they notice certain things like electrical storms. Teva-GSD would obviously get closer to me during a storm. That was the only sign. Crack of thunder and she would come lie closer. They don't necessarily react but you can see the awareness. With my herding dogs, I've noticed sensitivity to my pressure. The type of dogs I have had aren't the least bit handler sensitive or concerned. It'll be interesting to see if Khira [age 8 and without hormones] prey triggers on the freshly weaned lambs. With her thyroid not being in optimal range, don't know if its age or she is affected by the thyroid. We'll see.


T


----------



## vicki dickey (Jul 5, 2011)

I take my dogs to work which is at a Skeet and Horse Club. As puppies when they would hear the first gunshot they would look in that direction and then forget about it as we went on about our routine. I would make no comment to the pup about it. It helped I think to have my older dogs with me that paid no attention at all to the gunshots. Even new horses brought in would adjust quickly to the noise and we have never had a problem. Club members bring their pet dogs out to play and I have yet to see a dog react with anything more than a look maybe because there are dogs there that hear it daily and could care less and they take their cues from them.


----------



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Thomas nobody said life was going to be easy! Keeping those fingers from the blocks is always a plus...

Training for the gunfire area is like any other, breaking things down into the most simple of parts and doing them over and over.

I see too many field dogs for sale and the main reason they get rid of them isn't hard-mouth behavior, it's gunfire. You can't take a gun a shoot it beside the dog's head and NOT get a reaction...unless it's deaf!


----------



## Jaimie Van Orden (Dec 3, 2008)

At the kennel we have an ACD that is sound sensitive, so much so that at the sight of a gun he runs and hides or if confined shakes drools and tries to escape. We have always wondered if it is because of his ears, as a puppy he was baer tested twice, the first time he failed in one ear, the second time he passed in both. Same person ran both tests only thing that changed was a few weeks. None of the rest of the litter were sound sensitive.


----------



## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

Just wondering what unintended conditioning a dog gets by all these whip cracking lunatics on the bite sport field do to a dogs response to gunfire?

Second what impact is there to a dogs sensitive hearing to repeated gunfire, ask because a few hunters are trading their 30.30's for .22's to save their dogs hearing. Often the rifle is used to dispatch hogs with the barrel in contact with the hog and dog attached to hog.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

I've never had to deal with either a gun shy or gun aggressive dog, knock wood. My question is what behavior would a schH judge deem acceptable in the dog who is "gunshot aggressive"? 

UScA Rulebook Page 38

*THE GUNSHOTS*

"The firing of the gunshots is done during the free heeling, on the first straight leg of the pattern, and during the "down under distraction"....................."

*"For dogs that do not appear gunshot indifferent: *For the present, it is valid that dogs which are gunshot aggressive do not fall into the "gun shy" category. Aggressive behaviour falls within the judgement of impartiality."

"If a dog proves to be gun shy it will be immediately eliminated from the trial & no points will be awarded"

DVG America site has the Judges Handbook on line, but it says pretty much the same thing as the UScA Rule Book: 

http://dvgamerica.com/2004JudgesHandbook.pdf 
(page 16)


----------



## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

My last gun dog hated gun fire unless he knew what it was about.
ie., if I went out to do in a woodchuck he'd jump in the bath tub at the sound. If however we were to go out hunting together he never gave the slightest problem or shyness. He'd happily range, retrieve or stand to the side.

Never had a GSD that was gun shy in the lest though.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

T said
"Wow, I'm surprised at the amount of conditioning that goes into this for some. The one that would need the conditioning is me."

:lol: I've seen you jump from the gunfire at a Schutzhund test even knowing when the gun was going off. :grin: :wink:


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> I've heard of this before, and now I've seen it. I have an older dog, almost 13, she still has no reaction to gunfire (OK, she gets excited LOL), thunder, fireworks, etc. But a couple of years ago I got a bread maker as a gift, and it beeps at different times during the bread making process. There is something about that beep, the pitch or ??? that sends her into a complete fit. Stress first, and if the beeping doesn't stop she'll get to the point of drooling even. Microwave, oven, timers, none of these phase her in the least and they all beep, but that bread maker, oh yeah. I finally just boxed it up because after I used it a few times all I had to do was get it out and she'd start to stress. I was afraid she'd start to generalize to other beeping things, and I can always just make bread the old fashioned way.
> 
> I've talked to other people who have seen similar things happen as their dogs age. I can only guess it's because there are some changes in their hearing as they age, I really don't know.



It was especially hard to watch with this dog. He was practically raised at a fire house. Sirens, bells, horns, etc as a pup and the only excitement was because he learned all his buds would come running when he heard the sounds. 
His hearing is a little less sharp now then my younger GDS.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Sorry, not read all the posts but we do it while the pups are eating / playing, etc. (positive) and then in relaxed situations with the dogs either in "down" next to the handler, or not.

The dogs that have learned to stay "down" but occasionally do not, receive a "blocking".


----------



## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

I was thinking of keeping the pup far behind me while shooting a 45 acp and moving him closer gradually over the course of several weeks. Rather then go out and buy a 22 just for this project.


----------



## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> T said
> "Wow, I'm surprised at the amount of conditioning that goes into this for some. The one that would need the conditioning is me."
> 
> :lol: I've seen you jump from the gunfire at a Schutzhund test even knowing when the gun was going off. :grin: :wink:


That's when I decided I was hopeless.

T


----------



## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> T said
> "Wow, I'm surprised at the amount of conditioning that goes into this for some. The one that would need the conditioning is me."
> 
> :lol: I've seen you jump from the gunfire at a Schutzhund test even knowing when the gun was going off. :grin: :wink:


This has been me too! I've only experienced gunfire on the schH field with the dog, it came with no warning at all, dog couldn't have cared less and I near jumped out my skin. No prior conditioning other than good socialisation as a puppy, all terrains, city centre at rush hour, demolition sites, as well as quiet times in the country, no environmental issues whatsoever.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

rick smith said:


> Keith, re: your Q .....
> background : my dog was sleeping on its side in an enclosed shopping arcade under my table when i was drinking coffee (think giant beercan) .. a drunk Ja idiot walks over towards our table and tossed a wad of lit firecrackers (maybe 20-30) at my table ... some landed within five feet......dog practically jumped out of its skin
> ----after that incident was over i couldn't get the dog to even ENTER the arcade let alone go back to where the table was in front of the coffee shop.....he would start shaking when he saw the arcade entrance :-(
> ..... took about 6months of daily D/C but he's fine now and we stop there for coffee 3-4 times a week....he'll crash but he won't go to sleep there anymore and it isn't one of his favorite places :-(
> ...


I was doing some OB curbside on a busy corner in the middle of the great welcoming city of Milwaukee, WI... some guy did the same thing to us, tossed a pack of firecrackers out the car window, while stopped at the corner..had the dog sitting facing traffic at the curb, and someone pulled up to the light behind us and tossed them at us..some of them were close enough to hit us as they went off...luckily it was not a big deal, never did see that guy again....I did get a good look at him as he was laughing at me when they drove off...still hoping to run into him someday.. if you got the guy back, you are my hero for a day


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Jaimie Van Orden said:


> This is a question I am just putting out there, because I was recently given two very different answers, by people I have seen successfully train dogs.
> How do you introduce your puppy to a gunshot?
> What works, what doesn't and why not?


A dog is either gun shy or not. It does not matter how or when the sound is introduced.


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Faisal Khan said:


> A dog is either gun shy or not. It does not matter how or when the sound is introduced.


Tell that to Baby Albert.


----------



## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

I start off with cotton balls in the dogs ears...


----------



## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

And being gun shy is not the sole problem with gun shots, Addie wanted to go and bite the guy with the gun when she was young.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Years ago, when we were buying dogs that had a lot less work than ones available today, we considered all dogs "gun green". We just assumed they had never been exposed to gunfire etc, and successively exposed them to more, closer and louder gunfire. Training dogs for Viet Nam, we used a lot of the real M-80 fire crackers, ground burst simulators and thousands of rounds of 38 and M-16 blanks. 

DFrost


----------



## Chris McDonald (May 29, 2008)

Do you guys think there is a difference in using blanks as opposed to live rounds? Meaning have you ever seen a dog who was only worked around blanks and fire crackers have an issue when worked around live? Does anyone work there dog on outgoing and incoming live? If so how?


----------



## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> I was doing some OB curbside on a busy corner in the middle of the great welcoming city of Milwaukee, WI... some guy did the same thing to us, tossed a pack of firecrackers out the car window, while stopped at the corner..had the dog sitting facing traffic at the curb, and someone pulled up to the light behind us and tossed them at us..some of them were close enough to hit us as they went off...luckily it was not a big deal, never did see that guy again....I did get a good look at him as he was laughing at me when they drove off...still hoping to run into him someday.. if you got the guy back, you are my hero for a day


Same thing happened to me, I was out on 4th july for some desensitizing work with the dogs (stupid, I shoulda known) and a drunk neighbor tossed a firecracker across the street at us. Havoc scooted behind me and sat on his tail, and Cyko... well... went psycho...LOL 

I left Havoc and walked up to the guy (sobered up quick at that) holding back Cyko by the collar, and told him next time I'll just turn the dog loose and then see who's laughing. The look on his face was priceless.

:-( It took several months to get Cy to quit looking around for someone to bite at any bangs, pops, car backfiring, etc noises. He is mostly good but still not totally neutral to that stuff. Havoc never got over his noise sensitivity no matter what I did, but in his case that's genetic, I think.


----------



## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Chris McDonald said:


> Do you guys think there is a difference in using blanks as opposed to live rounds? Meaning have you ever seen a dog who was only worked around blanks and fire crackers have an issue when worked around live? Does anyone work there dog on outgoing and incoming live? If so how?


I never noticed a difference between blanks and live rounds. There is however, a considerable difference between outgoing and incoming. Perhaps not so much in the sound as in the feeling around you. 

DFrost


----------



## Selena van Leeuwen (Mar 29, 2006)

Either playing/hanging out with the pup at the trainingsfield when gun is fired or they hear it at home when the hunter shoot on the surrounding land for goose or hare.


----------



## will fernandez (May 17, 2006)

In training we have started with ob while the line is hot. Then move up to the line and fire stationary. We then will fire and move to cover with the dog. After that we will follow a two man team that is firing on the move. 

Most of the dogs I have seen handle it well. Exposure and making them follow commands makes it pretty easy to do..


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Faisal Khan said:


> A dog is either gun shy or not. It does not matter how or when the sound is introduced.


I agree and disagree...

I think it does matter how it is introduced...

take a dog that is 6 months old that may not have been gunshy, and shoot off a 12 gauge, or a .357 magnum a few feet away, and he very well might be gunshy after that..


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Joby Becker said:


> I agree and disagree...
> 
> I think it does matter how it is introduced...
> 
> take a dog that is 6 months old that may not have been gunshy, and shoot off a 12 gauge, or a .357 magnum a few feet away, and he very well might be gunshy after that..


 You can get a deaf pup that way too! What I meant was that sound sensitivity is genetic, nothing much you can do about it. If it exists then it exists, does not matter how many CD's the pup listens to, pup will always be sound sensitive.


----------

