# 12 month gsd real opinion



## Stefan Schaub

watch this movie and tell me straight out what you think about that what you see!!
have get many emails with nice words but i want really know from you folks here what you think and what should look different.:?::?::?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AO-eFL22lE


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## brad robert

Look i will bite!!

I see a good grip decent aggression and seeems a confident dog for its age i also see a dog very fixated on its prey object and not really taking on the helper in the bite work except when your in the cage even when flicked with the whip the dog still looks at the wedge(thats how it looks in the video which is never like being there) this may fade in time depends if it gets rewarded for looking at the wedge or taking the fight to the helper and the long bite was confident excellently gripped and showed no sign of slowing down.

In the OB by that age with the basics been shown in the video i would expect the lure out of the way by now but that is no reflection of the dog.


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## Bob Scott

In addition to focus only on the wedge he's all pull and no push into it. That's not important to some and very important to others.
These could be trained behaviors, intentional or not, or just what the dog does. ????
I like the intensity at the cage and the fast, high hit on the wedge.


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## Joby Becker

Everything looks good to me concerning the dog and the training, it is a good promo vid for sure.

My comments are not about the dog, but the presentation of the video itself and the wording associated with it.

Stefan, what do you mean when you say: "some people say it is luck", what are you implying that people say is due to luck? and who are these people?.

Also, are there really people that say that "you do not know how to train"? and who are these people?


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## Stefan Schaub

brad robert said:


> Look i will bite!!
> 
> I see a good grip decent aggression and seeems a confident dog for its age i also see a dog very fixated on its prey object and not really taking on the helper in the bite work except when your in the cage even when flicked with the whip the dog still looks at the wedge(thats how it looks in the video which is never like being there) this may fade in time depends if it gets rewarded for looking at the wedge or taking the fight to the helper and the long bite was confident excellently gripped and showed no sign of slowing down.
> 
> In the OB by that age with the basics been shown in the video i would expect the lure out of the way by now but that is no reflection of the dog.


thank you, i do not do any in aggressions in that age,all what i need is a active dog,clear grips,good speed and confident.


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## Stefan Schaub

Bob Scott said:


> In addition to focus only on the wedge he's all pull and no push into it. That's not important to some and very important to others.
> These could be trained behaviors, intentional or not, or just what the dog does. ????
> I like the intensity at the cage and the fast, high hit on the wedge.


thank you can you explain me why the dog should push into it?


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## Stefan Schaub

Joby Becker said:


> Everything looks good to me concerning the dog and the training, it is a good promo vid for sure.
> 
> My comments are not about the dog, but the presentation of the video itself and the wording associated with it.
> 
> Stefan, what do you mean when you say: "some people say it is luck", what are you implying that people say is due to luck? and who are these people?.
> 
> Also, are there really people that say that "you do not know how to train"? and who are these people?


some people say it is luck to breed dogs like that!!!other people really think we can do only bite work.for some people it is hard to understand that it does not matter in what country you live and breed,everyone by himself have the free choice to breed with dog a or b and no organization tells you what to do. so it is not luck that i breed again and again dogs like that and it is not look that i found his dad for breeding.why have no one used him before.easy because they did not see his quality. who these people are??the ones who talk all time how bad it is here because of the organizations or the sv or who ever and that we do not have these great dogs here in the States.

same people who talk about training a dog and all time the bad quality of the dogs but never their own bad training see. 
i really think no one is so good or so old that he could not learn more than he knows.
to name the people does not make sense,they do not stand up for their word.i get from all over the states and other countries people here for training and must listen to all these crazy stories.on the end only one thing matters,your breed your training and that what you can show.some people like other things in dogs and some people have different ideas.fine with me but show and proof it.


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## Joby Becker

Stefan Schaub said:


> some people say it is luck to breed dogs like that!!!other people really think we can do only bite work.for some people it is hard to understand that it does not matter in what country you live and breed,everyone by himself have the free choice to breed with dog a or b and no organization tells you what to do. so it is not luck that i breed again and again dogs like that and it is not look that i found his dad for breeding.why have no one used him before.easy because they did not see his quality. who these people are??the ones who talk all time how bad it is here because of the organizations or the sv or who ever and that we do not have these great dogs here in the States.
> 
> same people who talk about training a dog and all time the bad quality of the dogs but never their own bad training see.
> i really think no one is so good or so old that he could not learn more than he knows.
> to name the people does not make sense,they do not stand up for their word.i get from all over the states and other countries people here for training and must listen to all these crazy stories.on the end only one thing matters,your breed your training and that what you can show.some people like other things in dogs and some people have different ideas.fine with me but show and proof it.


Yes there are always duechebags involved with pretty much everything, I suppose.


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## Bob Scott

Stefan Schaub said:


> thank you can you explain me why the dog should push into it?



That's seen more in KNVP. They like the dog pushing into the decoy. Taking the fight to the decoy?
Hopefully someone more familiar can explain it better. 
My dog used to push and pull to counter the decoys moves in schutzhund. I've had a decoy tell me he didn't like catching him because it can make a decoy look bad. ](*,) ](*,)


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## Alex Scott

That is a seriously impressive video. Great levels of aggression on the passive decoy. Looks to have really high confidence, never stops pulling towards the decoy. Those are awesome grips, full and hard with no readjusting and no intentions of dropping the wedge. Doesn't slow down before the decoy with the bite wedge. Attacks all tasks with intensity but still looks calm in the heel. I wish there were dogs available like that in Australia. What I like these dogs so much is because its rare to see a German Shepherd that has the potential to achieve top IPO scores and still have a strong military application. I would love to own a dog like that. IMHO Staatsmacht breeds the best German Shepherds PERIOD.


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## Tim Connell

Dog looks great, Stefan. 12 months old, and looks very nice.

If the dog looks a little fixated on the prey item, it's probably because he's too young to have the defense put on. He looks like he's got some fire there, so I wouldn't see any issues in that department, when he's ready.

Stefan is breeding some nice dogs, so I guess I would like to see what the people are breeding that don't like his.


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## Gillian Schuler

Tim Connell said:


> Dog looks great, Stefan. 12 months old, and looks very nice.
> 
> If the dog looks a little fixated on the prey item, it's probably because he's too young to have the defense put on. He looks like he's got some fire there, so I wouldn't see any issues in that department, when he's ready.
> 
> Stefan is breeding some nice dogs, so I guess I would like to see what the people are breeding that don't like his.


Regarding the last paragraph, has this ever been an issue?


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## Ariel Peldunas

Joby Becker said:


> Everything looks good to me concerning the dog and the training, it is a good promo vid for sure.
> 
> My comments are not about the dog, but the presentation of the video itself and the wording associated with it.
> 
> Stefan, what do you mean when you say: "some people say it is luck", what are you implying that people say is due to luck? and who are these people?.
> 
> Also, are there really people that say that "you do not know how to train"? and who are these people?


I wonder the same thing about the comments in the beginning. It seems like those comments would be more appropriate in a video promoting your breeding program as a whole with clips of multiple dogs you have bred performing in different stages of obedience and protection ...showcasing the fact that it's not just luck that you have produced one or two good dogs or that you are only skilled in one small area of training.

I don't know you at all and have no idea what your breeding program produces or what skills you have as a trainer. I'm just giving my feedback on what I saw. I think the dog looks nice for a 12 month old and definitely shows potential ...I really like his entry on the short send on the wedge. I just think the comments (and even the music selection) would be better suited for a video showcasing your breeding/training program as a whole rather than just highlights of one individual dog ...it kind of took the focus off of him from the beginning and put it on you and the trainer/handler.


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## Tim Connell

Gillian Schuler said:


> Regarding the last paragraph, has this ever been an issue?


It seemed like the video was a response to some people who don't like his dogs or training style.


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## Stefan Schaub

Tim Connell said:


> It seemed like the video was a response to some people who don't like his dogs or training style.


you hit it!!


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## Austin Porter

Dog looks nice, right where I would expect a well/purpose bred dog of that age to be... Looks good on the field, how is his performance off the field? When do you go to the suit or sleeve? What do you look for in the dog to know he is ready to progress to the next level?


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## sheila flatz

Austin Porter said:


> Dog looks nice, right where I would expect a well/purpose bred dog of that age to be... Looks good on the field, how is his performance off the field? When do you go to the suit or sleeve? What do you look for in the dog to know he is ready to progress to the next level?


 I can't answer the questions about knowing when to progress in protection, that's for Stefan, but I can comment on what the dog is like away from the training field. 

He's very attentive to me, but more and more indifferent to other people. He gets along with my mature male dog, but not awesome with the cat. He's calm in the crate in the house and car. He loves to do any kind of training activity and has good focus. He alerts easily to strange noises at home, which I really like. All around a nice working dog with solid nerves.


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## Austin Porter

Thanks for the feed back, I was just curious how he works off his home field. Nerves are THE big one for me, so that's why I ask... Im guessing your the owner? Whats your goals with him? Looks like Schutzhund to me, just from that little vid anyway. I have never herd of the kennel or trainer so I don't really have an opinion on that. Would like to see a finished dog with the same foundation as the dog in the vid.


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## sheila flatz

Austin Porter said:


> Thanks for the feed back, I was just curious how he works off his home field. Nerves are THE big one for me, so that's why I ask... Im guessing your the owner? Whats your goals with him? Looks like Schutzhund to me, just from that little vid anyway. I have never herd of the kennel or trainer so I don't really have an opinion on that. Would like to see a finished dog with the same foundation as the dog in the vid.


Hi Austin, yes, I am the owner. My goal with this dog is high level schutzhund. I practice obedience on many different fields, it makes no difference to him. I am confident protection would be the same on another field as well. He has been worked by another helper and was fine with that. You can see on the Staatsmacht You Tube channel several young dogs with the same foundation that are a little farther along. I know there is a video of Bacon, same foundation, one year older. Another is Dude, video of his Bh.


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## Austin Porter

Ill Check it out.. thanks.


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## sheila flatz

Ok, I did not see Dude's Bh there, but lots of videos of dogs with the same training


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## jamie lind

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f23/captain-von-der-staatsmacht-aka-dude-25062/
Dudes thread

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f23/bacon-von-der-staatsmacht-bh-26570/

Bacons thread


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## Austin Porter

All this just looks like normal Sch. work, it all looks good/normal. I don't see anything unique or overly impressive... Am I missing something?


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## Austin Porter

Austin Porter said:


> All this just looks like normal Sch. work, it all looks good/normal. I don't see anything unique or overly impressive... Am I missing something?


Its late.. Hope I didnt sound like a jerk. The original vid seemed kinda hype-ish. So I was looking to see what he was doing a bunch of cool unique stuff, maybe something I could use in my program? I guess I just thought there was supposed to be more to it lol. Dogs all look nice, good work!!! Thanks for sharing!


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## Peter Cho

For 12 months, very nice. Excellent barking. Very good active behaviour for young pup. This was impressive. 
The OB portion was VERY impressive for 12 months. I heard one person say do it without a tug under arm. Hmmmm the pup is 12 months! Foundation! To me this portion was the most impressive. The pup knows the basic position. Why it is impressive? Every single exercise in IPO starts with sit, pay attention, and STRAIGHT position. Only thing I would say is that I see no e collar work incorporated with this position exercise, which I find to be critical. It would be very hard to compete at a high level without tools to manage behaviours later on. At this age you are working the wedge as a toy reward. I agree. Just teaching good technique, like in the long bite. 

As for pushing in on the bite....this dog foundation is obviously for IPO. You would NEVER push in, thrashing etc. Just bite full, crush, and pull back like crazy to hinder helper will win you the fight.

As for being promotional.....well, I liked it. I loved the pup!!! Hell, it was way better than watching some poor scared dog on the post biting and thrashing while the bad guy is going insane.


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## Christopher Smith

Peter Cho said:


> For 12 months, very nice. Excellent barking. Very good active behaviour for young pup. This was impressive.
> The OB portion was VERY impressive for 12 months. I heard one person say do it without a tug under arm. Hmmmm the pup is 12 months! Foundation! To me this portion was the most impressive. The pup knows the basic position. Why it is impressive? Every single exercise in IPO starts with sit, pay attention, and STRAIGHT position. Only thing I would say is that I see no e collar work incorporated with this position exercise, which I find to be critical. It would be very hard to compete at a high level without tools to manage behaviours later on. At this age you are working the wedge as a toy reward. I agree. Just teaching good technique, like in the long bite.
> 
> As for pushing in on the bite....this dog foundation is obviously for IPO. You would NEVER push in, thrashing etc. Just bite full, crush, and pull back like crazy to hinder helper will win you the fight.
> 
> As for being promotional.....well, I liked it. I loved the pup!!! Hell, it was way better than watching some poor scared dog on the post biting and thrashing while the bad guy is going insane.


Peter don't become transfixed and mired in dogma. There is more than one way to skin a cat and many people are doing very well in IPO that are doing things very differently than you. 

I train my dog to make opposition to the helper. That means that he pulls sometimes, he pushes sometimes, he is static sometimes. I want him to go against whatever the helper does. 

And before ya'll get all lubed up... Pushing can't be seen in trial in most instances. But it is used in the training to create the trial picture that I want.


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## Peter Cho

Christopher Smith said:


> Peter don't become transfixed and mired in dogma. There is more than one way to skin a cat and many people are doing very well in IPO that are doing things very differently than you.
> 
> I train my dog to make opposition to the helper. That means that he pulls sometimes, he pushes sometimes, he is static sometimes. I want him to go against whatever the helper does.
> 
> And before ya'll get all lubed up... Pushing can't be seen in trial in most instances. But it is used in the training to create the trial picture that I want.


Chris, I don't care how anyone trains and it is awesome that people train differently. Original post asked for opinion and I gave it based on the fact that the owner stated that they wanted to compete in high level ipo, not just club level. 

Not saying pulling is right or pushing in favorable. However, for high level ipo, if you push, you must regrip....constantly. Trust me, I trained specifically for this in ring and PSA. we were using suits. BUT for IPO, you loose HUGE points for regrips. like 7-10 points left on the table for the trial. 

Again, this is IMO. Anyone can train anyway they want. 

I just appreciated some OB that showed some fundamental development.


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## Christopher Smith

As I said above, they don't push in trial. I guess you didn't take the time to read and think about that. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Tiago Fontes

Christopher Smith said:


> Peter don't become transfixed and mired in dogma. There is more than one way to skin a cat and many people are doing very well in IPO that are doing things very differently than you.
> 
> I train my dog to make opposition to the helper. That means that he pulls sometimes, he pushes sometimes, he is static sometimes. I want him to go against whatever the helper does.
> 
> And before ya'll get all lubed up... Pushing can't be seen in trial in most instances. But it is used in the training to create the trial picture that I want.


 
Very interesting concept. I assume that on the escape bite the dog could employ both techniques and gain leverage over the helper. 

Can you elaborate on this please?


Thanks


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## Christopher Smith

I don't understand what you need explained, but I'll try. On the escape the dog pulls. When the helper stops the dog tenses his body and bites and he might pull if the helper rocks back a lot on the lockup. If the help leans into him he pushes forward. On the reattack and drive he fights by biting hard and counters on the stick hits. 

Mainly this is a training method so the dog can put power to the helper. In my opinion the dog should always feel that he is in control of the protection. The handler is the dog's assistant and the helper is to be beat up. This gives the dog confidence and power.


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## Tiago Fontes

Gotcha. Thanks.


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## Gus Pineda

who are the dogs parents?


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## sheila flatz

Gus Manda said:


> who are the dogs parents?


Baxter von Starke Pfoten 
Ultra von der Staatsmacht


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## Christopher Jones

Im not sure if the OP is looking for comments of the quality of the video, the dog in the video or the training in the video? 
Its a 12 month old dog that is showing what you would expect at that age. There isnt much training to really look at either. 
I think the comment about what people say would be better suited to a montage of all the good dogs Stefan has bred and their achievements. The young dog doesnt do enough to answer the questions posed in the beginning of the video where as I am sure alot of Stefans older dogs do.
Theres nothing bad in the video to see but maybe it would have been better showing dogs like Terror etc as well.


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## Gus Pineda

Leon is my favorite Staatsmacht dog, at least from the videos I have seen.


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## Matt Vandart

Cool, vid,nice dog, I liked the speed in the last bite.


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## Jessica Lewis

Matt Vandart said:


> Cool, vid,nice dog, I liked the speed in the last bite.


I would love to see Terror in routine. If he is Staatsmact best dog ever produced let's see a movie.!!!! As Stephen say show me!!!!


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## Christopher Smith

Who said it's the best dog the kennel has produced?


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## Jessica Lewis

Christopher Smith said:


> Who said it's the best dog the kennel has produced?


Lol Stephen did.


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## jamie lind

Jessica Lewis said:


> I would love to see Terror in routine. If he is Staatsmact best dog ever produced let's see a movie.!!!! As Stephen say show me!!!!


Funny you have a poor grasp of the English language yet you can't spell staatsmacht or Stefan. Lol


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## Christopher Smith

Jessica Lewis said:


> Lol Stephen did.




Where?


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## Jessica Lewis

Christopher Smith said:


> Where?


On his website under Terror ](*,)


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## Jessica Lewis

Jessica Lewis said:


> On his website under Terror ](*,)


Personally I think Stephen is the best in the USA. Yes I am biased. I have Terror son and all I can say is wow!!! Who has done more than Stephen??? He is a td,helper,breeder,and handler at a very high level.


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## Austin Porter

Jessica Lewis said:


> Personally I think Stephen is the best in the USA. Yes I am biased. I have Terror son and all I can say is wow!!! Who has done more than Stephen??? He is a td,helper,breeder,and handler at a very high level.


Best at what? Breeder? TD? Helper? Handler?


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## Jessica Lewis

He is the Total package and makes real dog not just based on points. Ever one likes a certain type of dog and Stephan makes what I like. I also like Natte Harves.


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## Christopher Jones

Who is this Stephan people talk of?


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## Tiago Fontes

Christopher Jones said:


> Who is this Stephan people talk of?


 
The guy who initially started this thread. He owns the kennel Staatsmacht. 

From what I read here, he's close to being a King...lol


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## Christopher Jones

I thought his name was Stefan not Stephan? :-s


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## Tiago Fontes

If you're talking about the same guy who started this thread, then yes...lol


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