# Nerve and 8 week old puppies



## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I know we've had some discussion about fear periods, and the consensus is dogs can go through them and turn out okay. Also, some young dogs can show slight fear or suspicion and as long as they know how to recover then again, they can be fine dogs by maturity.

That said, since 8 weeks old is not necessarily considered a fear period, what do you guys expect from an 8 week old pup and do you think they can show something at this age that they can grow out of? Do edgier lines have pups that are a little nervous at this age or do you feel that this has to manifest itself later on? Will you take a chance with an 8 week old that is less than solid, if the parents are both solid and the lines are good?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

8 to 9 weeks is a fear period.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jeff, I gotta disagree with you. I don't have my text in front of me, but there IS a specific age range in which pups are more susceptible to "fear learning" which is different from pups being afraid. If I remember correctly, it is in the 12 - 15 week age range. (?)

At 8 weeks old, if I drop a pan on the floor, I want to see the pup stop, (but not startle), and do over and sniff the pan. I don't want to see any overtly fearful reactions for new strange sights and sounds. 

At 8 weeks, I want to see the pup confident in new environments. Slick floors, climbing over brush, introduced to training and trial environments without any stress, fear or excessive excitement.

There is a bit of forgivness for a pup that recovers well, especially if it plays well. It would not be unusual for a pup to be hesitant the first time on slick floors. But if the pup will play tug on a slick floor, I wouldn't immediately disqualify the pup.

I think I would be more careful with a edgy line. I want a balanced dog. So if a line is edgy, I'm going to assume a pup will grow into that, so I'll choose the most stable. If a line is laid-back, I'll look for a bit more reactive pup (comparitively) in the litter. But for these sorts of assumptions to play out accurately, you can't base the line off just the bitch and stud. You need to get out there and be seeing dogs generations back, on top and bottom of the pedigree, seeing the dogs working, in new environments. Getting a good feel for what is average and what is the range of extremes in the lines.

Even when all the work is done, it's a puppy and you're always in for a surprise. 

Emma is weaker in her nerve than I would expect for her lines and her puppy selection and socialization. Then again, she did spend from 4 mo - 12 mo primarily kenneled because of my situation. She's good enough to do her job. Now looking at her littermates, two were held back and kennel raised. At 12 weeks or so, those two were fearful. Did I not have a good concept of the lines? Were they linebred one too many times? Or was it only socialization? Who's to know?! 

I went off on a tangent, but my point was to always select a balanced pup, and say a little prayer that the pup stays that way.


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> 8 to 9 weeks is a fear period.


Jeff, please elaborate based on your experience. I really want to hear from you. The cookie-cutter response to this question is "never consider a dog that shows fear", but I think that is asking too much from a living creature. 

However, to *what* extent is a little fear okay or not?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I believe that between 8 and 9 weeks that there is something going on. I had read this after I was noticing this in pups that had something stupid happen to them. One of the reasons I want to get pups to their owners at 7 weeks.

Annie, maybe the reason your dog acts that way is that you are startling the shit out of it at 8 weeks LOL

I have only had a couple of disasters at this period, and the dog had bad responses after that. I don't think that it is written in stone or anything, just like the fear period at 7 months that I have noticed.

Things that go wrong at 8 to 9 weeks seems to have more of an effect than other times, just like at 7 months.

Just something that I am careful about. It has always had a consequence in my experience. Fortunately, I don't drop the ball to often during this time period.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

When I went to pick up my pup at 7 weeks, my colleague took out his adult GSD and the pup sat there and ignored it. When my colleague said "that's a cool customer" she said "don't be fooled, the fear stage hasn't set in yet".

The pup was fine until about 16 weeks when he started to be wary of things but I let him be and at 7 months he was ok again.

My Fila went through the 7 month "fear" stage and the Briard was more alert at 7 months. Both turned out fearless.

The younger GSD never had a "fear" stage.

I honestly don't think you can generalise.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

If the bitch is cool and the pups have been socialized if there is fear at 8 I would run and not walk from this litter that is if it's a working GSD litter 8 week old GSD pups should be sound.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Anne Vaini said:


> At 8 weeks old, if I drop a pan on the floor, I want to see the pup stop, (but not startle), and do over and sniff the pan. I don't want to see any overtly fearful reactions for new strange sights and sounds.
> 
> At 8 weeks, I want to see the pup confident in new environments. Slick floors, climbing over brush, introduced to training and trial environments without any stress, fear or excessive excitement.


At 8 weeks I like to see a happy pup, I don't think you have to set off explosives or send them down a ski jump to see their personalities.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> At 8 weeks I like to see a happy pup, I don't think you have to set off explosives or send them down a ski jump to see their personalities.


I just got visual of your description :lol:you could make a very interesting Chicken Soup for puppy testing book:?:


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## Trish Campbell (Nov 28, 2006)

At 8 weeks, I expect to see pups that are curious, outgoing, social-interested in their surroundings-even if startled will recover & move forward to investigate.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

I instinct puppies in herding at 7 weeks. The puppy that that doesn't show fear avoidance and works just fine at week 7 is in avoidance week 8 and 9. At 10 weeks, he's back in the game. A couple didn't show an obvious fear period. If you interacted with the litter, you wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference in any of them in terms of their people interaction and such. By week seven I have them pretty much sorted out in terms of what I think the temperament/drives are. Since I'm usually looking for which pup I'm going to keep for herding, what they display with the 7 week instinct test in terms of working style is the final. When I look at litters to pick a puppy, I like to see them at 3, 5, 7 weeks. When I have evaluated my own puppies, I start charting them at 3, 5, 7 weeks. Have seen fear periods at 16 weeks, 6-7 months, and now have a dog that went through one at 13 and 18 months. Its not abject fear but avoidance of things that didn't affect them previously. 

Terrasita


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## Colin Chin (Sep 20, 2006)

Since we are talking about puppies here, I will make do of this thread to share and ask for help about my pup instead of starting a new thread. I have my pup for three weeks as at today. She's born on 21 Sept. This is my observation of her.

My female GSD pup isn't a very confident pup from the way I observe her body language. She's aware/sensitive of her surroundings. She will chase tug attached to a string like mad and grabs it and pulls. As she pulls she will whine at times. (don't know what that means to me) So, when she pulls hard enough I let her win before the whinning sets in. Guess, that's good prey/hunt drive. She's not comfortable with the opening/popping of an umbrella though. She runs away from it.

How do I socialise her to make her to be more confident of new things or environment. I took her for a short walk as part of socialisation processes. She's not comfortable with incoming vehicles, the sound of them and their and noises. Reserved and wary of strangers instead of finding them interesting and wanting to investigate further. For eg, last weekend I took her to a park where they were a group of kids playing badminton with noises like laughing, talking. She hesitated to go near them. I ignored her plea by continued walking as it is ok to me they are not monsters. Then I started playing tug with her from a distance of the crowd. She was ok.

If she's scared of something, it will take her a long long time for her to come forward and investigate that 'something' it is actually ok.

Please help me as this is my very first working pup. I don't have high/much expectation from myself and her. Just want to make sure that she's turn out to be a confident pup. 

Thanks.


Regards,
Colin


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