# Malanois / Dutch Shepherd Mix



## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Question for the experts out there. I have a couple superstar working dogs. A male Dutch Shepherd and an equally competent female Malanois. Both are about 2 years old and have been professionally trained in protection and receive daily on-going training.

I want to breed them and keep most or all of the offspring for myself. I will probably choose the best ones and give away the rest to good families.

After the first litter I will likely fix the female. I'm not into breeding to actually make money, I just want more dogs and I think that these two dogs together would make great offspring.

Question is, has anybody bred these two (very similar) breeds together? 

Is there any history of successful working dogs coming from this cross?

Is this a bad idea for any reason? I've never bred any dogs, but have full-time staff on hand with experience and the room to accomodate, so none of this is an inherent issue.


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## mark tanaka (Jun 5, 2012)

Not an expert by any means but truthfully they're so close to the same anyway...plus dont alot of Knpv dutchies have mal in there ped? To me.....personally....sounds like you got 2 good dogs and your breeding for the right reasons...go for it!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Rick Scott said:


> Question for the experts out there. I have a couple superstar working dogs. A male Dutch Shepherd and an equally competent female Malanois. Both are about 2 years old and have been professionally trained in protection and receive daily on-going training.
> 
> I want to breed them and keep most or all of the offspring for myself. I will probably choose the best ones and give away the rest to good families.
> 
> ...


how many more dogs do you want to keep?


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

Ive seen "malinois" born in a DS x DS littler and I've seen litters of DS and Malis in the same litter. I was *hours* from sending these guys my money to have a dog flown in to me. 

The Y litter had both 

http://vzk9.com/y_litter.html

by the way, Jason Hines was super accommodating and was upfront about everything in his communications and expectations of the dogs. I drove 5 hours one way to buy my current DS and was OK with driving back w/o a dog and calling these guys to buy a dog.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi, Rick, and welcome ....


Please don't forget your intro here:

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/


Thanks!


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## Ken Seminatore (Apr 20, 2011)

Actually I have seen Malinois? Dutch Shepherd mix. Of course these are not show dogs, thank goodness. Personally, I very much like the results, awesome puppies I have seen at an early age. Wow! Obviously, not for pet dogs. Check out East Tennesse K9.


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## Drew Peirce (Nov 16, 2006)

Superstars huh? love to see one of those, any video?


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Drew Peirce said:


> Superstars huh? love to see one of those, any video?


'Superstars' to me I guess, compared to civilian dogs I've had in the past...


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Joby Becker said:


> how many more dogs do you want to keep?


As many as my wife lets me.:razz:

I'm fortunate to have the space, the time and the labor to pull it off.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Ken Seminatore said:


> Actually I have seen Malinois? Dutch Shepherd mix. Of course these are not show dogs, thank goodness. Personally, I very much like the results, awesome puppies I have seen at an early age. Wow! Obviously, not for pet dogs. Check out East Tennesse K9.


Yes, correct Malinois... I noticed my spelling error after my post but couldn't edit it. 

When you say 'not for pet dogs', meaning they are very high maintenance and energy?


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Hi, Rick, and welcome ....
> 
> 
> Please don't forget your intro here:
> ...


I will take some pics and do that, thanks.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

I'm not looking to win any 'shows' and I don't compete or believe in 'sport'. I'm more into real life situations and security. I think both are great breeds, much better than German Shepherds that I've had in the past. I train my dogs for about 3-4 hours per day. I'm surprised that nobody has bred them together, although I can understand that they may not be sellable (which doesn't matter to me). They come from very working class bloodlines. Not the best looking dogs, but they get the job done.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Rick Scott said:


> I'm not looking to win any 'shows' and I don't compete or believe in 'sport'. I'm more into real life situations and security. I think both are great breeds, much better than German Shepherds that I've had in the past. I train my dogs for about 3-4 hours per day. I'm surprised that nobody has bred them together, although I can understand that they may not be sellable (which doesn't matter to me). They come from very working class bloodlines. Not the best looking dogs, but they get the job done.


 
cmon are you serious?? Try the search here and look it up, I can think of over 20 breeding already this year of this type combo of which it isn't much difference in "breeds" if you call it that, they are same except in color.......

And your gonna breed them? I know I know im the asshole...... do some homework first, you want some more dogs, go to the shelter


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Kevin Cyr said:


> I know I know im the asshole......


Hey you said it... :roll::roll::roll:


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Rick Scott said:


> I'm surprised that nobody has bred them together


This is a very common mix, if you look at the pedigrees of some of the KNPV dogs in Holland there are many dogs with a mixture of fawn and brindle dogs in the pedigree.

It's also a fairly common mix here in the US with people who are doing breedings similar to the Dutch.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Hi, Rick, and welcome ....
> 
> 
> Please don't forget your intro here:
> ...


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## patricia powers (Nov 14, 2010)

http://www.bloedlijnen.nl/ click on nesten and you will find gsds, malis, ds, & crosses. yes, lots of folks
do cross malis with ds. the purists don't like it, but some folks are breeding for function only. I can see merit 
in both ways of thinking. just be sure you are not breeding for the wrong reasons.  pjp


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

patricia powers said:


> just be sure you are not breeding for the wrong reasons.  pjp


I am breeding to have more dogs. Can't think of a better reason than that!


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Done........


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: "I don't compete or believe in 'sport'. I'm more into real life situations and security."

sorry, but this comment and a few others you have made make me hackle up 

"SPORT" is imnsho the main basis for how we can keep working dogs working dogs
- there are a TON of experts on this forum who breed, train, and compete with the same working breeds as your superstars in SPORTS, and without them we would have nothing but weak, watered down "civilian" dogs .. to use the term you wrote down
- and of course many of these "sport" people are also working with dogs who go on to work in real life situations on the streets and other real world uses

i see no way in hell we could develop working breeds capable of real protection without a good mix of dog sports as a foundation to build on, and i'm definitely not talking about free style dog dancing

at this point i'm really curious what type of experts you are looking to get advice from regarding breeding and whether you would take their advice if it was given. can you provide specifics ? what about the inputs you have received from your current dog's breeders and the professional trainers who have made them rockstars, etc ? they were all clueless about mal DS crossbreeding ? or they gave you info you are "crosschecking" here ?


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

rick smith said:


> re: "I don't compete or believe in 'sport'. I'm more into real life situations and security."
> 
> sorry, but this comment and a few others you have made make me hackle up
> 
> ...


Not that this has anything to do with the post, but 'Sport' as in dogs that are trained to bite the same sleeve over and over. The same dogs that when confronted with an intruder that has a tennis ball become useless.

I don't feel the need to get into my motivations of my dog ownership with you as you are clearly trolling here and off topic.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

re: " I am breeding to have more dogs. Can't think of a better reason than that! "

??? are you serious ???


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

btw, i may piss people off sometimes, but that's me
what i try hard NOT to do is put words in their mouth ... these were your words ... common courtesy to explain them if asked unless you can show why the question was not necessary or stupid :-(

we have had a few threads regarding breeding
i don't recall "to make more dogs" as a generally accepted breeding criteria that was ever discussed here, but i could have been away at the time

and people who have come on here with questions have often been asked what kind of advice they had already received from their breeders and trainers ... so any questions along those lines would seem very relevant to the OP


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

I am sorry that is not acceptable to you?!?!?

Its really not your business why I want several dogs. I have my reasons. That is all you need to know.

Its also not related to the thread.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Rick Scott said:


> ... Its also not related to the thread.


First post:
_
"Is this a bad idea for any reason? I've never bred any dogs ... "_

People are attempting to respond to this question.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Rick Scott said:


> Question for the experts out there. I have a couple superstar working dogs. A male Dutch Shepherd and an equally competent female Malanois. Both are about 2 years old and have been professionally trained in protection and receive daily on-going training.
> 
> I want to breed them and keep most or all of the offspring for myself. I will probably choose the best ones and give away the rest to good families.
> 
> ...


You can breed mali x dutchie with no problem, it happens all the time.

If you check the forum you will see there are many of such crosses floating around out there. 

I will go out on a limb and say that people will ask why? Why the need for a breeding when you only want to breed to add more dogs. You have never bred before, and want to breed to add more dogs only. For many if not most people this is not a reason to breed at all. This is something you will have to accept when posting on this forum. If you plan to work the dogs it might be different but you just want more dogs and say that is a valid enough reason when there are shelters out there overflowing with dogs that are being put down simply for lack of space. 

So, yes, people will react strongly to your view and reason for breeding, this can not be helped. It is your choice to make and you are free to do what you like with your own dogs, remember tho that this is a working dog forum with people who keep high standards for breeding and people who have strong views on why a breeding should or should not take place. Do not get upset over these views, maybe you should have checked around the forum before posting to begin with. 

My personal views are that a breeding just for the sake of adding more dogs into the mix is a shame. It has no real purpose. The shelters however could stand to lose a few dogs, why not visit those first?


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Alice, I want the additional dogs for working purposes. Believe me I have no intention of wasting all this time and money supporting useless dogs for no reason. I don't feel I need to discuss specifics of why I want 8-10 working dogs, but that is my goal.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Connie Sutherland said:


> First post:
> _
> "Is this a bad idea for any reason? I've never bred any dogs ... "_
> 
> People are attempting to respond to this question.


What I meant is it a bad idea to mix these 2 breeds, nothing to do with whether its a bad idea for me to try to do it.

Anyhow, I've got the answers that I need and appreciate the helpful responses.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Rick Scott said:


> Alice, I want the additional dogs for working purposes. Believe me I have no intention of wasting all this time and money supporting useless dogs for no reason. I don't feel I need to discuss specifics of why I want 8-10 working dogs, but that is my goal.


Okay, in that case good luck to you... Helpfull hint for you tho -=---> don't want people giving answers you do not want to hear, then do not ask them questions to start with.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Alice Bezemer said:


> Okay, in that case good luck to you... Helpfull hint for you tho -=---> don't want people giving answers you do not want to hear, then do not ask them questions to start with.


 
and then within 10 posts downtalks people giving advice or even questioning his intentions....I smell former member and troll. Anyone asking those questions and breeding for that is a complete and utter idiot! You own a mal and a DS suppose to be good working dogs, but doesn't understand or know the history of the breed and how its suppose to be cross breeding? Your not breeding a poodle and Labrador, cmon man.....


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Has anyone ordered pizza for the Saturday night Rick vs Rick fight?


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Katie Finlay said:


> Has anyone ordered pizza for the Saturday night Rick vs Rick fight?


Now thats just mean! You say that as if you wish for a fight to erupt! (Hands you $50, Rick S to win!)


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Kevin Cyr said:


> and then within 10 posts downtalks people giving advice or even questioning his intentions....I smell former member and troll. Anyone asking those questions and breeding for that is a complete and utter idiot! You own a mal and a DS suppose to be good working dogs, but doesn't understand or know the history of the breed and how its suppose to be cross breeding? Your not breeding a poodle and Labrador, cmon man.....


DITTO#-o](*,)

This dude is a TROLL!


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Lol... :-({|=


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Rick Scott said:


> Not that this has anything to do with the post, but 'Sport' as in dogs that are trained to bite the same sleeve over and over. The same dogs that when confronted with an intruder that has a tennis ball become useless.
> 
> I don't feel the need to get into my motivations of my dog ownership with you as you are clearly trolling here and off topic.


You really have no idea, you really think that an intruder with a ball will make the dog chase after a ball instead of biting him? LOL


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Khoi Pham said:


> You really have no idea, you really think that an intruder with a ball will make the dog chase after a ball instead of biting him? LOL


Absolutely. I've diverted military 'guard' dogs myself with tennis balls. You should probably find a new line of work if you think otherwise, or enjoy your dog 'sports' and leave it at that Koi. True attack dog trainers do not play with dogs and balls. Got it?


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

So sport dog are useless and so as military guard dogs, no wonder why you want to breed your own dogs, I understand now.


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## Doug Wright 2 (Jul 24, 2011)

Dude, how old are you - 12? Why so confrontational? I hope you dont try to make friends where you live the same you're working it here.](*,)


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Ah, and here we are with our WDF travesty of the week. The comical part of this is you get people who can't or won't bother to answer legitimate questions from the general membership that are typically some if the first to jump in on topics that aren't deserving of their time/effort. Maybe its the desire some have to be critcal rather than helpful or just decent to one another. Some of you were helpful though. Either way, thanks for the entertainment, you guys are awesome!


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Rick Scott said:


> Absolutely. I've diverted military 'guard' dogs myself with tennis balls. You should probably find a new line of work if you think otherwise, or enjoy your dog 'sports' and leave it at that Koi. True attack dog trainers do not play with dogs and balls. Got it?


 
You do realize many Police Dogs and military dogs that get live bites every year are rewarded with tennis balls... Including dogs sold to SF and the Navy Seals..what you reward your dog with has nothing to do with whether or not it will bite for real. Also, the biting sports you are denigrating are one of the primary sources military and Police dog brokers use to get their green dogs and breeding stock. Do some more research dude and dont believe everything you hear from a few biased sources.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Nicole Stark said:


> Maybe its the desire some have to be critcal rather than helpful or just decent to one another.


Clearly its just trolling. Sad... [-X


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Haz Othman said:


> You do realize many Police Dogs and military dogs that get live bites every year are rewarded with tennis balls... Including dogs sold to SF and the Navy Seals..what you reward your dog with has nothing to do with whether or not it will bite for real. Also, the biting sports you are denigrating are one of the primary sources military and Police dog brokers use to get their green dogs and breeding stock. Do some more research dude and dont believe everything you hear from a few biased sources.


I think you are missing the point.

Training dogs to chase balls is a bad habit for the real world.

Maybe fine for 'sport', I 'get' that, but in the real world you don't want a bad guy distracting your dog with a ball.

Good luck with your research brother.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> I think you are missing the point.
> 
> Training dogs to chase balls is a bad habit for the real world.
> 
> ...


 I have to ask you this..........are you being serious right now??


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

mike suttle said:


> I have to ask you this..........are you being serious right now??


I guess being from West Virginia you probably have to ask that... :lol:

Everybody who I've talked to that knows anything about attack dog training knows that you discourage playing with balls. I thought you were smarter than that, Mike.


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

If you do end up breeding, make sure you give the pups some blood to drink a couple times a week when they're old enough, that will give them the taste of blood and will make sure they really will bite for real when you need them to.


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> If you do end up breeding, make sure you give the pups some blood to drink a couple times a week when they're old enough, that will give them the taste of blood and will make sure they really will bite for real when you need them to.


 And feed them gun powder too. You should read about using walkie talkies to command yours. You never know when East Gwillimbury's gonna get riled up.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> I guess being from West Virginia you probably have to ask that... :lol:
> 
> Everybody who I've talked to that knows anything about attack dog training knows that you discourage playing with balls. I thought you were smarter than that, Mike.


WOW, I'm glad you told me this. I sell a lot of dogs every year to groups who use those dogs to bite people. All of those are crazy over a ball, maybe I should issue a recall of all of those dogs because they will chase a ball and therefor are not suitable as patrol dogs!](*,)
Enjoy your very short career in the working dog business Rick!


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## Marta Wajngarten (Jul 30, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> And feed them gun powder too. You should read about using walkie talkies to command yours. You never know when East Gwillimbury's gonna get riled up.


oh and give them guns as chew toys!
These dogs will never know fear! They will be unstoppable!


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Rick Scott said:


> I guess being from West Virginia you probably have to ask that... :lol:
> 
> Everybody who I've talked to that knows anything about attack dog training knows that you discourage playing with balls. I thought you were smarter than that, Mike.


 
Ok..lol you got me, at first I thought you were being serious. Good one. :lol:


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> oh and give them guns as chew toys!
> These dogs will never know fear! They will be unstoppable!


Make sure they're big guns though. That's how you expand your perimeter.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Marta Wajngarten said:


> oh and give them guns as chew toys!
> These dogs will never know fear! They will be unstoppable!











is this what you mean Marta? The problem is that ths dog will chase a ball, so I guess he won't work.......LOL


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Rick, I have to ask.... Because I may not put myself on the expert throne yet, but I would say I was knowledgeable and have experience. My question is: So these dogs of yours, they are good? But won't chase a ball....just because they have never had a ball thrown for them? Sounds legit


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Rick Scott said:


> Question for the experts out there. I have a couple superstar working dogs. A male Dutch Shepherd and an equally competent female Malanois. Both are about 2 years old and have been professionally trained in protection and receive daily on-going training.
> 
> I want to breed them and keep most or all of the offspring for myself. I will probably choose the best ones and give away the rest to good families.
> 
> ...


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Well... I guess the kid has balls, no brains, but hes got balls! No wonder he doesn't want dogs chasing balls, they might go after his! :lol:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

what is the current function of your full time staff, that they can so easily be diverted to the task of raising and training 6-8 more dogs?


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

so, out of curiosity.... sheer curiosity.... what's going to happen here?



I'm thinking Sylar is not going to go after a tennis ball?


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

How exactly is the dog rewarded? Any intruder that throws a ball to a dog is probably smart enough to throw sticks and tugs?


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

This has come a long way from the OP.

I think dogs are contextual enough to understand 'tennis ball time' and 'intruder time.' If we go back the mail man discussion; I don't think a mail man could get a dog off of him with a tennis ball.

$10 says the dog in the pic above *WILL* play with a tennis ball but understands there is a time and a place for it.

If you can train a big 'guard dog' (not a PPD) to refuse a big steak dipped in anti-freeze, it's not a stretch to understand that a PPD would refuse a tennis ball in favor of something 'higher value' to bite/engage. My dogs will chase balls all day..... unless there is something else they want more.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Yes this thread has definitely come a long way off topic, but I want to make a couple points.

1) Yes, my dogs will certainly chase a ball. Pretty much any 'good' dog that any of us are after has ball drive. It just is not something I encourage, the same way I don't feed them by hand or reward with treats as they are 'poison proofed' and eat only from their bowl. Of course if I held a hot dog to their face from my hand they will likely eat it, but why encourage that behavior?

2) Why take the chance and form a habit for a dog to chase a ball? Sure if this is a pure 'sporting' dog or a companion dog, I 'get' that. But for a security, sentry type dog, I don't want to leave any opportunity for an intruder to be able to potentially distract the dog.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Ted Summers said:


> I don't think a mail man could get a dog off of him with a tennis ball.


Probably not, but prior to any attack, many dogs can be diverted by throwing a ball and will enter 'play mode'. 

I suppose most people here aren't into serious security dogs, it seems to be more of a 'sport' forum, so our interests aren't exactly aligned so I understand if most people don't even care if their dog stops an intruder or not. 

Remember, I'm talking in general about sentry type dog, who will attack suspicious characters on a property WITHOUT a command.


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## Derek Milliken (Apr 19, 2009)

mike suttle said:


> is this what you mean Marta? The problem is that ths dog will chase a ball, so I guess he won't work.......LOL


I was actually gonna go find that pic Mike. It's just further proof that you have no idea.....

And if you're ready to get rid of that dog and start over with something "real", I'll give you a few bucks for him.


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## Haz Othman (Mar 25, 2013)

Rick Scott said:


> Probably not, but prior to any attack, many dogs can be diverted by throwing a ball and will enter 'play mode'.
> 
> I suppose most people here aren't into serious security dogs, it seems to be more of a 'sport' forum, so our interests aren't exactly aligned so I understand if most people don't even care if their dog stops an intruder or not.
> 
> Remember, I'm talking in general about sentry type dog, who will attack suspicious characters on a property WITHOUT a command.


No offense but you clearly dont have much of a clue about sport. Is it just me or do people that put down sport often have never participated or achieved anything in those venues. :-k
Rick your comments on balls are ridiculous, once again theres a reason that dogs working in LE and military applications are rewarded with balls. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story though eh?


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> Yes this thread has definitely come a long way off topic, but I want to make a couple points.
> 
> 1) Yes, my dogs will certainly chase a ball. Pretty much any 'good' dog that any of us are after has ball drive. It just is not something I encourage, the same way I don't feed them by hand or reward with treats as they are 'poison proofed' and eat only from their bowl. Of course if I held a hot dog to their face from my hand they will likely eat it, but why encourage that behavior?
> 
> 2) Why take the chance and form a habit for a dog to chase a ball? Sure if this is a pure 'sporting' dog or a companion dog, I 'get' that. But for a security, sentry type dog, I don't want to leave any opportunity for an intruder to be able to potentially distract the dog.


So do you think the dog will care the first throw of tennis ball in its life comes from an "intruder". 

Sounds like your non-expert tactic is just simply avoid things, and hope that works instead of just training the dog. 

there was this promotional scent dog video a few years ago. There was a mali searching boxes, and people dumping cardboard boxes full of tennis balls all around the dog. The dog never skipped a beat, found the scent, indicated, and the handler pulled from his pocket a bright yellow tennis ball same as all the others and gave it to the dog. But hey the hope strategy sounds like a good plan.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> I suppose most people here aren't into serious security dogs, it seems to be more of a 'sport' forum, so our interests aren't exactly aligned so I understand if most people don't even care if their dog stops an intruder or not.
> 
> Remember, I'm talking in general about sentry type dog, who will attack suspicious characters on a property WITHOUT a command.


Where are you located? I'd love to work one of your security dogs who will attack WITH or WITHOUT a command. :-D


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

mike suttle said:


> Where are you located? I'd love to work one of your security dogs who will attack WITH or WITHOUT a command. :-D


I assume you are being facetious here, but yes, my dogs are trained to attack both on command and on their own when they sense a threat (intruder at night and no handler around comes to mind). Despite the cute German name, I suppose Logan Haus doesn't offer that sort of advanced training?


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> I assume you are being facetious here, but yes, my dogs are trained to attack both on command and on their own when they sense a threat (intruder at night and no handler around comes to mind). Despite the cute German name, I suppose Logan Haus doesn't offer that sort of advanced training?


Where are you located? I'd love to see the work. Maybe you could post some video????


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

mike suttle said:


> Where are you located? I'd love to see the work. Maybe you could post some video????


Give it up, Mike.  Clearly this guy is all hot air and nothing more. 

He has no clue what he is talking about, his attitude and way of talking has told us that much already, hes scared to post video's or give any real info about himself out of fear on being called on his BS. He wouldn't know a real dog if one came up and bit him on the balls! :lol: 

I'd love to hand him one of mine or one of yours and see what he does next...a change of pants would be in order is my guess! He's nothing more than a loudmouth wannabe. 

I will say it again, the best advocate for a person character is the person itself....when it comes to him, we have gotten tons of information on exactly what he is not!


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Rick....some words of wisdom for you here. Act like an asshole and you will get treated like one. Wonder why people are responding to you the way they are, then take a good long look in the mirror first...it might give you an answer.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Alice, you make several good points in your posts. I still wonder why anyone bothers to respond when someone comes on here with intentions to deliberately rattling cages. It's foolish to me how much time and effort is given to exchanges with members that do that under real or assumed identities. Especially when you consider that there's plenty of people here that haven't any reason or desire to play such games with people. Further, those same members are here with a legitimate need of one sort or another but time and again their questions will only garner a handful, if that, of responses related to the original question.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> Alice, you make several good points in your posts. I still wonder why anyone bothers to respond when someone comes on here with intentions to deliberately rattling cages. It's foolish to me how much time and effort is given to exchanges with members that do that under real or assumed identities. Especially when you consider that there's plenty of people here that haven't any reason or desire to play such games with people. Further, those same members are here with a legitimate need of one sort or another but time and again their questions will only garner a handful, if that, of responses related to the original question.


 
Some people are on here actually trying to educate themselves or at least have intelligent dialogue about working dogs. Some are on here wasting time and intentionally stirring the pot, then there is the average who is just browsing trying to decide whether or not to respond or take part in discussions.

When someone asks such silly questions and responds in the way some do, I believe it is necessary to respond in a manner to have others think, "What" or "WTF". I say this because some people on here trying to learn might actually believe some of the stupidity that one is saying or asking, of which is not even necessary to even think of to investigate the truth of such BS. 

Yeah, you are correct, why do some keep responding knowing it is BS and keep one going, I hear ya, but at some point if we don't respond how many threads and nonsense will be up on this board. Just saying....

Its just my thoughts on the matter.....


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## Doug Wright 2 (Jul 24, 2011)

Kevin, If I understand you correctly, you're expressing the need to throw up the BS flag when its warranted so unsuspecting Joes\Janes don't buy into it. I can see that. However I like to think that an overwhelming majority can already see through this BS. its very obvious the OP hasn't done his due diligence.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Nicole Stark said:


> Alice, you make several good points in your posts. I still wonder why anyone bothers to respond when someone comes on here with intentions to deliberately rattling cages. It's foolish to me how much time and effort is given to exchanges with members that do that under real or assumed identities. Especially when you consider that there's plenty of people here that haven't any reason or desire to play such games with people. Further, those same members are here with a legitimate need of one sort or another but time and again their questions will only garner a handful, if that, of responses related to the original question.


And this, I think, is why when an honest person does come by, those that are knowledgeable don't bother to reply. There's just too many people who don't want to listen to advice (whether unintentionally or to ruffle feathers).

Generally I sit back with some popcorn, but sometimes (like now) it starts getting a little too crazy and I'd prefer to watch something else.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Kevin Cyr said:


> Some people are on here actually trying to educate themselves or at least have intelligent dialogue about working dogs.



Thank you Kevin.

I wish everybody would just get back on topic here.

Lets talk about the original post. Breeding Dutchies and Malinois.

Who has done it and what were the results?


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Puppies. Some fawn, some brindle. Or sometimes all fawn or all brindle. Mix of males and females.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

leslie cassian said:


> Puppies. Some fawn, some brindle. Or sometimes all fawn or all brindle. Mix of males and females.


Thanks. Any suggestions on how to pick which puppies to keep and which to give away? Obviously I'd want to keep the 'best' on hand. I have a male and a female right now. Does the gender mix matter at all as to which puppies to keep for myself? I only want to keep the best as I have some friends who want dogs so I'm going to give them the ones that don't make the cut.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

The perfect dog for me is not the perfect dog for anyone else. What I like is unique to my situation. Your washout might be my pick. My assessment of not drivey enough might your perfect dog. Pick the pups you like and that are showing you what you want to see.

Is there dog aggression in your lines? Will the males fight when they mature? Will the bitches fight? How are you planning to deal with bitches in heat if you keep a mix of males and females?

Honestly, if you have to ask, I wonder why you are considering breeding at all. But if all you want is more dogs, then fill yer boots, and all the best to you.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Rick Scott said:


> Thanks. Any suggestions on how to pick which puppies to keep and which to give away? Obviously I'd want to keep the 'best' on hand. I have a male and a female right now. Does the gender mix matter at all as to which puppies to keep for myself? I only want to keep the best as I have some friends who want dogs so I'm going to give them the ones that don't make the cut.


keep all of them, you'll probably need them when the compound gets stormed..


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

Joby Becker said:


> keep all of them, you'll probably need them when the compound gets stormed..


=D> :-D


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## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> Any suggestions on how to pick which puppies to keep...


Throw them all into the air at the same time. The last one that hits the ground is obviously more divine than the rest and should be kept.


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## Michael Joubert (Jul 17, 2012)

Rick Scott said:


> Thanks. Any suggestions on how to pick which puppies to keep and which to give away? Obviously I'd want to keep the 'best' on hand. I have a male and a female right now. Does the gender mix matter at all as to which puppies to keep for myself? I only want to keep the best as I have some friends who want dogs so I'm going to give them the ones that don't make the cut.


Have Mike Suttle come to the compound and evaluate the litter


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Michael Joubert said:


> Have Mike Suttle come to the compound and evaluate the litter


+1, and the parents to see if they are breed worthy.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Rick Scott said:


> I will take some pics and do that, thanks.



Are these pics up yet?


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

leslie cassian said:


> The perfect dog for me is not the perfect dog for anyone else. What I like is unique to my situation. Your washout might be my pick. My assessment of not drivey enough might your perfect dog. Pick the pups you like and that are showing you what you want to see.
> 
> Is there dog aggression in your lines? Will the males fight when they mature? Will the bitches fight? How are you planning to deal with bitches in heat if you keep a mix of males and females?
> 
> Honestly, if you have to ask, I wonder why you are considering breeding at all. But if all you want is more dogs, then fill yer boots, and all the best to you.


I'm asking because I'm inexperienced as a breeder. There is a first time for everything though!


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Are these pics up yet?


Not yet. When I'm ready I will post them, but right now to be honest I'm feeling a little threatened here by some of the members. Does every newcomer get treated like this?


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Joby Becker said:


> +1, and the parents to see if they are breed worthy.


What makes dogs 'breed worthy'? I assume the health certificates have to check out and hips and elbows etc in these breeds. Anything else I should look for? I'm pretty sure that I can't afford the services of Baron Suttle.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Rick Scott said:


> Not yet. When I'm ready I will post them, but right now to be honest I'm feeling a little threatened here by some of the members. Does every newcomer get treated like this?


threatened?

are you an overly anxious person? 

judging your seriousness in your security measures, you dont have to "feel" threatened by some people asking you questions or making statements on a message board..

if they show up on the monitors in the middle of the night, with a bucket of balls, and you dont have the walky-talkies operating correctly, or the command center gets compromised, that is when you should start to "feel" a threat...


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Joby Becker said:


> threatened?
> 
> are you an overly anxious person?
> 
> ...


I guess I'm a little paranoid. Mike Suttle looks a little dangerous and he keeps asking where I live. I don't want any problems with anybody.


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## Doug Wright 2 (Jul 24, 2011)

Damn it Joby, thats the second time you've made me piss my pants with laughter. I know - I know, there's medication for that.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

malinos X dutch shepherd breedings have been done 1000's of times most likely.

Results vary on lots of factors. 

Only thing that is certain,with the information that you have provided, is that if breeding is successful, you will get more dogs as a result.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Joby Becker said:


> keep all of them, you'll probably need them when the compound gets stormed..


I know you are probably making a snide sarcastic remark here, but you make a good point. The more the better. Even my idiotic civilian street dogs that I have adopted serve some security purpose.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Rick Scott said:


> I guess I'm a little paranoid. Mike Suttle looks a little dangerous and he keeps asking where I live. I don't want any problems with anybody.


Hey man, the last guy that actively actually threatened me with bodily harm online, I drove accross the country to his house unarmed, and he gave me 2 puppies for free..worked out fine..

take a chance man, live a little...

and dont judge people by thier looks either, although I agree Mike looks dangerous, especially when he is growing a beard, beards always make people more deadly.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> What makes dogs 'breed worthy'? I assume the health certificates have to check out and hips and elbows etc in these breeds. Anything else I should look for? I'm pretty sure that I can't afford the services of Baron Suttle.


 No need to worry about my prices......I will be glad to do it for free. I'll bet we can get several members on here to chip in for gas money.


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## mark tanaka (Jun 5, 2012)

mike suttle said:


> No need to worry about my prices......I will be glad to do it for free. I'll bet we can get several members on here to chip in for gas money.


Lol well can you come by and test mine too..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Christopher Smith said:


> Throw them all into the air at the same time. The last one that hits the ground is obviously more divine than the rest and should be kept.


Unless the first one to hit the ground is a rare black. You must keep the black ones for their superpowers.


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Also, I'm pretty sure that a photo of your dogs is not going to lead someone to find out where you live.


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## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Katie Finlay said:


> Also, I'm pretty sure that a photo of your dogs is not going to lead someone to find out where you live.


:-k Are you sure? We are, after all, talking about "Superstar Working Dogs" Maybe they look special or they might even sparkle in the sun! :lol:


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## mark tanaka (Jun 5, 2012)

There is a reason why noone post on this forum and everyone just looks ...you guys im sure are the holy grail end all to training dogs but why would number one the mods let you guys gang up on this guy...childish? Also why not just answer his question? Really honestly I feel most of you guys need to grow up answer his question or stop trolling his thread....he didnt ask u guys how you all felt about his training techniques ....now im off to another 9 months of posting nothing on this forum....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> I guess I'm a little paranoid. Mike Suttle looks a little dangerous and he keeps asking where I live. I don't want any problems with anybody.


Suttle is a expert marksman besides a dog man. You might want to talk to him about some SNIPER TRAINING when you guys meet. Then you can erect some gun towers at your compound to shoot whatever your mutts don't get.:roll:#-o:grin:


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## Katie Finlay (Jan 31, 2010)

Alice Bezemer said:


> :-k Are you sure? We are, after all, talking about "Superstar Working Dogs" Maybe they look special or they might even sparkle in the sun! :lol:


What if we die the instant we see their pictures?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

mark tanaka said:


> There is a reason why noone post on this forum and everyone just looks ...you guys im sure are the holy grail end all to training dogs but why would number one the mods let you guys gang up on this guy...childish? Also why not just answer his question? Really honestly I feel most of you guys need to grow up answer his question or stop trolling his thread....he didnt ask u guys how you all felt about his training techniques ....now im off to another 9 months of posting nothing on this forum....
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


See the next post below yours. I was trying to seriously help him guard the compound!:razz:


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## Michael Joubert (Jul 17, 2012)

mike suttle said:


> No need to worry about my prices......I will be glad to do it for free. I'll bet we can get several members on here to chip in for gas money.


Damn, that's a hell of deal.


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## Kevin Cyr (Dec 28, 2012)

mark tanaka said:


> There is a reason why noone post on this forum and everyone just looks ...you guys im sure are the holy grail end all to training dogs but why would number one the mods let you guys gang up on this guy...childish? Also why not just answer his question? Really honestly I feel most of you guys need to grow up answer his question or stop trolling his thread....he didnt ask u guys how you all felt about his training techniques ....now im off to another 9 months of posting nothing on this forum....
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


 
Trolling his threads or is he trolling the forum, you really think he is serious in all this? cmon


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Katie Finlay said:


> Also, I'm pretty sure that a photo of your dogs is not going to lead someone to find out where you live.


You would be surprised, I'm quite known in the community.


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## Rick Scott (May 19, 2013)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Suttle is a expert marksman besides a dog man.


That is why his threats concern me.:-(


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Oh, for heaven's sake. This is ridiculous.

Lee, this thread is silly enough already.


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## mike suttle (Feb 19, 2008)

Rick Scott said:


> That is why his threats concern me.:-(


My threats?????? WTF?? What threat have I made to you?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Oh, for heaven's sake. This is ridiculous.
> 
> Lee, this thread is silly enough already.


Ya think?:-D


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

mike suttle said:


> My threats?????? WTF?? What threat have I made to you?



NONE.

That's what I meant by "ridiculous."


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