# Continued training of your PPD



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

How many folks that have purchased a PPD, regardless of cost, have continued the training on the dog, or do you feel the dog you have to be able to retain what it's been trained for?
Do the sellers offer continued training? Require continued training? Charge for continued training? Offer continued training as part of the dog's purchase?


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Apparently that would be disclosing too much information.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

I train my own BUT if anyone thinks that once the trained PPD is bought and then that's it, they have a lot to learn. It's like anything else, if you don't use it you will loose it. It may come back but will not be as proficient. 

I insist on continued training but they will do as they like.


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## David Ruby (Jul 21, 2009)

The way I understand it from people who train in personal protection that I have talked to is that it is ongoing. Basically, and in a real, literal sense, you are never done. Kind of like taking up a Martial Art as a lifelong pursuit, or becoming a marksman, or any other skill set. There are always new things, and what-ifs to train for. Not to get all zen-voodoo or new age mystical about it, but it's not over once you get your black belt or get to a certain championship level, and you can't earn a certain skill level and then stop, not if you are serious about it. You are always learning and there are always new things that can happen or different ways to do things or scenarios to implement.

I'm sure not everybody does it that way, but that is the way that makes the most sense to me and how the people I have discussed this with and respect view it.

-Cheers


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

I purchased a partialy trained PPD at 10 months old, he is a little over 2 now. Training him is an on going, always evolving and sometimes a very frustrating quest towards making him kick ass. I have alot of doing it though.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Bob, I think that's really an interesting question. I know the "industry standard" for police service dogs is 16 hours per month. One would naturally assume that any dog that is trained to specific skill levels would need training to keep those skills sharp. At least that's been my experience in the dog world.

DFrost


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

My husband purchased my PPD because I enjoy walking early in the am or late in the pm by myself and he felt more comfortable if I had a dog with me. That was not the only reason for the purchase but that was one of them. Once I got him, I started doing web searches to get more information. As an owner of a ppd, I understand that I have a responsibility to keep up not only with his bite work but his OB. The more info I found the more I wanted to do more with him than just walk him in the neighborhood. That is when I found WDF and Jerry Lyda with the APPDA  I enjoy the training aspect. The whole experience has brought me to a new place in my life. =D> I am now working with a guy who trains police dogs & personal protection dogs. We stand behind our dogs and have made ourselves available if they have any issues or concerns. I am also proud to say that in the over 20 years he has been in business he has never had any issues or has been sued by someone who has purchased a ppd. When we sell a ppd we stress the importance of continued training. If they want continued training sessions we will charge according to what they want, if it is just for a "general maintenance visit or problem solving" there is no charge. If they want us to go to their home, we will but we charge a travel fee. But once they leave the facility we don't have any control over what we suggest they do. ](*,) LE is a different animal whereas they are required to keep up and get certified. I would like to see the same with ppd. I would guess that the majority of the ppd out there become " expensive fur babies":roll: I am also seminar coordinator Canine Standards International and put on LE K9 training seminars. 

PS-now for the shameless plug.... 8) For the LE out there, CSI is having a training seminar in Louisiana in Oct. for more info please go to
www.caninestandardsinternational.com 

Now.. Back to the subject at hand after this brief commercial break \\/


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Kim, re; the odor recognition test with CSI, is it using the paint cans in a circle?

DFrost


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

No sir, the cans are not placed in a circle. We use practical application, the official decides how and where the cans are placed.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

kim guidry said:


> No sir, the cans are not placed in a circle. We use practical application, the official decides how and where the cans are placed.


Bless you. You now have my undivided attention. 

DFrost


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

kim guidry said:


> My husband purchased my PPD because I enjoy walking early in the am or late in the pm by myself and he felt more comfortable if I had a dog with me. That was not the only reason for the purchase but that was one of them. Once I got him, I started doing web searches to get more information. As an owner of a ppd, I understand that I have a responsibility to keep up not only with his bite work but his OB. The more info I found the more I wanted to do more with him than just walk him in the neighborhood. That is when I found WDF and Jerry Lyda with the APPDA  I enjoy the training aspect. The whole experience has brought me to a new place in my life. =D> I am now working with a guy who trains police dogs & personal protection dogs. We stand behind our dogs and have made ourselves available if they have any issues or concerns. I am also proud to say that in the over 20 years he has been in business he has never had any issues or has been sued by someone who has purchased a ppd. When we sell a ppd we stress the importance of continued training. If they want continued training sessions we will charge according to what they want, if it is just for a "general maintenance visit or problem solving" there is no charge. If they want us to go to their home, we will but we charge a travel fee. But once they leave the facility we don't have any control over what we suggest they do. ](*,) LE is a different animal whereas they are required to keep up and get certified. I would like to see the same with ppd. I would guess that the majority of the ppd out there become " expensive fur babies":roll: I am also seminar coordinator Canine Standards International and put on LE K9 training seminars.


Immediately you can tell the difference between the porch protection people and the informed people that take it seriously. This being the latter.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

David Frost said:


> Bob, I think that's really an interesting question. I know the "industry standard" for police service dogs is 16 hours per month. One would naturally assume that any dog that is trained to specific skill levels would need training to keep those skills sharp. At least that's been my experience in the dog world.
> 
> DFrost


Pretty much got the answer I suspected I would get from forum members. That's why they're here. I suspect that a lot of "average" folks buying any sort of dog with training is, unfortunately, satisfied with "as is". 
Kim said it correctly! "Expensive fur babies".


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Bless you. You now have my undivided attention.
> 
> DFrost


Does that mean you will make a trip to Louisiana to see how we hide things in a swamp? :-$ :-\" ;-)


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I would really like to do that. Unfortunately, with our budget constraints most out of state travel has been cancelled. I had never heard of CSI until you mentioned it. When did that get started?


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

I understand David. We are expecting about 30 teams. We have had a great response, but unfortunately budgets have been there stopping point. I would love to over a lower price for the seminar but we take care of all the expenses of the instructors a long with everything else a seminar cost. So this is not a money making gig. All of the profits go right back into the organization. My goal is that as the members grow so will the website ( which I did myself as well ) and we will post Q & A /forum/updates. I also would like to offer one day workshops for members to help with the cost for the departments. Well,all good things come with time.

CSI has actually been in existence since 2004. The first seminar was held/hosted by Louisiana State Penitentiary (Angola) The people that were heading it up really didn't have the time to devote to promoting it. I do. I have had some really great guys & gals from the USPCA & NNDDA assist and guide me. I currently have three departments who are interested in hosting an event. Two from out of state and another department in Louisiana.


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## kim guidry (Jan 11, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Pretty much got the answer I suspected I would get from forum members. That's why they're here. I suspect that a lot of "average" folks buying any sort of dog with training is, unfortunately, satisfied with "as is".
> Kim said it correctly! "Expensive fur babies".


Your right Bob, the calls we get are from men who work away from their home and they want their wives and kids protected. I had a husband buy a dog for his wife and two kids because he had two break in attempts ( early in the evening and while they were home ) The wife who was nervous about having a "dog that bites" around is now completely in love with the dog. The dog has it made.… He stays in the house and has a HUGE area to run with people to play and take care of him. Hubby is happy cause he has not had any more problems. 

Im happy cause the dog has a good home and they have told me in updates that the whole family does OB with him on a daily basis.=D>


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## fred karlsson (Mar 18, 2009)

Do you feel the dog you have to be able to retain what it's been trained for?

Yes, although I did not have a reason to let him bite I do not doubt he will do the work. 

Do the sellers offer continued training?
Require continued training?
Charge for continued training?
Offer continued training as part of the dog's purchase?

Seller is online chatting for practical questions. Training can be done on site or by sending dog back to the training facilities. Owner pay all costs for transport boarding etc. etc

Seller do a lot of Protection work when the dog gets delivered, mainly to see that the dog will out for obvious security reasons. My hand over was 3 days

Since the dog need to bond with it´s new owner a follow up will be done after 6months, looking forward doing this since he is "my" dog now and both me and my wife are much more confident handling him.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Bob said
"Do you feel the dog you have to be able to retain what it's been trained for?"

Fred said
"Yes, although I did not have a reason to let him bite I do not doubt he will do the work"

Fred, I sincerely hope you never have to find out how good your dog is without continued, regular training.
A six month follow up is not going to be enough. 
JMHO!


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## fred karlsson (Mar 18, 2009)

So you are saying the dog will not protect/bite if he does not nail a decoy every other week or so?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't know enough about PPD to say exactly what type of continued training it needs but I know dogs enough to know that few are natural protectors other then good alarm/threat dogs.
If one is needed to make physical contact with a "bad guy" I think it should have continued training of some sort, on a very regular basis. 
I consider the folks like Jerry and Jay Lyda to be good trainers in this area. I will defer to them as to exactly how much is need to keep the dog at it's best. 
If the dog needed the training in the first place as opposed to being a natural protector (rare), it WILL need ongoing training. 
I've trained in obedience, Schutzhund, search and rescue, hunting dogs, yadda, yadda.
The dogs that were succesful at this were either naturals or well trained. Even the naturals benifitted with continued training.
Example - My Jack Russell, as were some other of my terriers was purchased from hunting lines so I could hunt with him. He was great at it but the more he hunted, the better he got.
I had a nice little Norwich terrier from show lines. I "taught" him to do the den trials. He did those with much of that same furvor as any hunt bred dog does the den trials. He was show line and not worth a dern in a real hunting situation. Any rat, raccoon, etc in a cage was fair game in the den trials. He knew they couldn't get to him! He would have nothing to do with a raccoon in a real life situation. They know and understand the difference.
My older GSD was tested in a sheep pen for herding. He has natural qualities that will make him an excellent herder. The more often I train with him the better he gets. He's a Sch III. Doesn't mean he'll physically protect me. Don't care! 
They ALL need ongoing training. Doesn't really matter what area they are trained in. JMHO!


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

fred karlsson said:


> So you are saying the dog will not protect/bite if he does not nail a decoy every other week or so?


It probably depends on the dog, for me it's the obedience during bite work that suffers the most if my dog isn't worked regularly. Bite work for him is like crack, he gets so amped up that nothing else matters, but if worked regularly obedience is just part of the routine.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

Bob said it all. Every dog wheather a natural or not needs to stay on top of his game. Continued training is the key. I don't have to be two or three times a week but there should be follow up training every three months. This training will keep him in correct mind set and he will have some fun.


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## fred karlsson (Mar 18, 2009)

Does anyone agree that you could potentially detune a PPD if doing sports training.......just a thought....


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

I think its the heart of the dog.
Some dogs love to fight. They prefer fighting for real over toys. The harder the fight gets the harder they fight. you have seen the dogs where pain causes an eyes roll back in their head "exorcist kind of response" You can't train that.

A lot of PPD sellers will tell you that's what you are buying when in reality 99% of the public can't tell a Sport only dog that would cower from a fight from a killer.

personally I just carry a gun and love my dog, problem solved


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