# Central Asian Ovcharka Bitework



## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Just a few clips I saw on another board. Pretty cool, imo.

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a233/COChara/?action=view¤t=12f8a73a.flv 

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a233/COChara/?action=view¤t=da7061a4.flv 

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a233/COChara/?action=view¤t=51386534.flv 

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a233/COChara/?action=view¤t=993a40bf.flv 

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a233/COChara/?action=view¤t=c85ca2cd.flv




Andy.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

couldn't get any of the links to work--and i would like to see them!


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## Kristina Senter (Apr 4, 2006)

Likewise!!


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Whoops! Let's try it again...














Andy.


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

i don't think i would want to be responsible for getting a dog like that off the bite. and i SURE wouldn't want to be the decoy, NO WAY.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

As big as that dog is, and that is one BIG dog, I expected him to toss the decoy around a lot more. Looks like he's got nice drives though, he moves pretty quick considering his size.


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

I expected it to be more wild like a CO, complete with predatory headshake and constant retrargeting. However, I did like how the dog kept positioning himself behind the decoy to avoid danger. 

Just too dang big and scary for me! :mrgreen: 



Andy.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I have seen 40 lb dogs do that much damage to a decoy, plus, the dog looked more like a Tibetan Mastiff than anything else.

Still, kinda cool to watch odd stuff here and there.


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## Lisa Geller (Mar 29, 2007)

I have a friend in the Ukraine who has work these, and I believe he said they are in fact of the mastiff family?
I have some video footage of some modern protection tournaments. I'll try to dig it up.

I really like the furry ones. For someone else, of course:-\" 

http://www.midwestringsport.com/Caucasian Ovtcharka.jpg


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## Ren Sauder (Apr 5, 2007)

I am a big fan of Livestock Guarding Dogs (LGD) and have many friends who own, work, train, breed, raise and test various breeds of LGD. Central Asian Ovcharkas (CAO) on average are more dog-reactive and less human reactive than their cousins the Caucasian Ovcharka (CO) (the dog pictured in the above post). CAOs also tend to be a hair softer than the CO. But dont underestimate them! If you get them mad they are all business no matter who or what you are.

Andy, these guys are very smart. When they bite if they do not get enough of a reaction they will rebite until they do. That is why if you are testing them you do not want to push them too hard. Sleeves do not work on these guys if not done properly. They will bite the sleeve and then go straight for the head.

Jeff the two are somewhat similar as they are both LGD however I would say that that was most deffinately a CAO, just a bit on the tubby side.

Lisa, both mastiffs and Ovcharkas are of the Molosser family of dogs.

The "furry ones" you are talking about are Caucasian Ovcharkas.

I would love to see those videos you are talking about.

Here is another CAO defense test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbP_uSx8jpA

Caucasian Defense Test (to compare the two)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN06J_VjPD4&mode=related&search=

2nd CO test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhPTS3_OLz8&mode=related&search=


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## Andy Andrews (May 9, 2006)

Ren,

I had posted those videos you shared in a previous thread, but nonetheless I have to agree with you. A friend of mine showed me another CO clip against a sleeved decoy. The dog retargeted from the sleeve to the shoulder/collarbone in an instant...it was actually quite startling the first time I watched it! lol

I will, however, maintain that they're just too big and scary a breed for me. I like my bulldogs, thank you! :mrgreen: 



Andy.


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

these dogs really scare me. Not because of the dog itself, but because the owners are often just too small (and or too stupid) to control it. Really now, what normal sized woman is going to be able to even walk a dog like that without major OB training - far past the level of OB that your average pet owner is going to put on the dog. Because of this, it kinda seems that they're pretty pointless as a PP dog, because it would be too much of a liability the second you left your property. 

Did you see the discovery channel special they did on the COs a couple of years ago? (it might have been Animal Planet, too - I can't remember which one.) They featured two different owners, one of which was a man who was pictured taking the dog for a walk. It was literally dragging him down the street. I remember wincing while watching it, thinking "THAT is NOT a good advertisement for the breed!"


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

Those first clips didn't impress me too much. Yeah its a big dog but ok so what. It looked to me that the dog tried his best to pull away from the decoy and get behind him as mush as possible. A little avoidance maybe, I'd like to see him being worked deep in the pocket on an inside bite and see how he does. Hell, I'd work him myself to see, it would be interesting to work one of those dogs though. That would be a fun challenge!!:-D


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## Chris Duhon (May 24, 2007)

Certainly the dog works enough for a PP dog atleat for what the ordinary person needs, however, from a trainer point of view, I don't like how the dog seems uncomfortable with the confrontations. Notice the obvious avoidance where the dog tries very hard to stay behind the decoy. He is not comfortable at all with taking the decoy on directly. 
The training seems to lack enough confidence building. 
Though this dog is more than enough for what the ordinary person needs.

~CHRIS DUHON


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## Amber Scott Dyer (Oct 30, 2006)

Chris Duhon said:


> Though this dog is more than enough for what the ordinary person needs.
> 
> ~CHRIS DUHON


I agree that it is enough protection-wise, but an ordinary person isn't going to safely handle a dog this size. It's just a problem waiting to happen. A nice, compact dog will serve the same purpose and be much easier to deal with from the handler's end.


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## jay lyda (Apr 10, 2006)

It wouldn't be a problem if the dog had the proper OB. Everything stems off OB, train them properly and the handling will be easier. Any dog, big or small that is trained to bite is a problem waiting to happen unless the OB is there. The person at the end of the leash has GOT to be in control, bottom line.


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## Ren Sauder (Apr 5, 2007)

Uh guys you are forgetting an important point that these dogs are NOT bred for PP. They are bred to protect livestock (generally sheep) from predators (such as wolves and bears and wild cats or whatever else tries to nab a sheep, even stray dogs) and would-be thieves. They aren't Neos, they arent Bulldogs, they arent Malinois etc etc (breeds generally used for PP) so they shouldnt be expected to act or react like one....

The videos shown are more TESTS not "this is what happens when you train an LGD for PP work". So in other words, likely these dogs have had ZERO PP training. Instead they were just taken out and see how they react to a threat. 

Regarding the epsiode Discovery did on the Ovcharka. I never saw it myself but I have heard that it was very poorly done. If anybody has a link to the episode on youtube or something I would be happy to see it. Most Ovcharkas that reside here in the US are very poor examples of the breed. You want to see some REAL Ovcharkas you have to look at the ones on the other side of the pond. The ones that reside on the mountain side with a flock of sheep and a Shepherd who only comes out to check on them every few days to make sure there is enough food and water. Now before anyone jumps on me, yes there are some fantastic Ovcharkas here in North America too. I myself know a few in person and know a few owners of others in person. At the end of the day they are an amazing type of dog but certainly not for the average Joe owner and certainly not like any other breed of dog I have ever encountered.

Oh ya and as for "small owners" handling them. It can be done and it doesnt take a genious or thousands of hours of training to accomplish. You just have to know what you are doing is all, just like any other sharp big dog. Sometimes what you will see during temperment tests (like in the videos) is that the dog will actually be tied up rather than the owner hanging on to it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

OK, lets get this straight, that was NOT a temperament test. The dog was trained. Russians are a bit nutso, so I do not blame him for going behind the decoy.


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## Ren Sauder (Apr 5, 2007)

Jeff, how do you know this dog was trained? Not trying to be a smartass here, I'm genuinely curious because I have seen various videos of Ovcharka's temperment test. Of course its nothing like what the ATTS does, all they care about is how sharp is the dog, how hard is the dog, will he engage and will he cur out.


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Ren Sauder said:


> Uh guys you are forgetting an important point that these dogs are NOT bred for PP. They are bred to protect livestock (generally sheep) from predators (such as wolves and bears and wild cats or whatever else tries to nab a sheep, even stray dogs) and would-be thieves. They aren't Neos, they arent Bulldogs, they arent Malinois etc etc (breeds generally used for PP) so they shouldnt be expected to act or react like one....


 I know quite alot about the molosser dogs. I like to visit moloss.com to learn more their history and rare breeds. I fell in love with cane corso, but I knew they are not the right breed for MR or FR. I have heard that they tend to do very well in PP.



Ren Sauder said:


> The videos shown are more TESTS not "this is what happens when you train an LGD for PP work". So in other words, likely these dogs have had ZERO PP training. Instead they were just taken out and see how they react to a threat.


 Well, I don't have a lot of experience with training dogs for PP, but the way they tried to bite the sleeve, it looks like they didn't care about where they will bit. It looks like these dogs were being teased and encouraged to be more aggressive to strangers.

It reminds me of young kids who sneak into someone's yard and tease someone's dog. The dog will become aggressive and doesn't care where it bites. Maybe its instinct is to give many bites anywhere.


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## Alex Corral (Jul 10, 2007)

I just want to say DAMN! those were some pretty cool videos. I had never seen those dogs in action before and it was cool to see. They are some bigass dogs. Like Chris said, more than what most people need. I know I'd be scared of them. How much was that puppy weighing? 150?


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