# Has Anyone Else Lived Off The Grid



## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I lived in Drakes Bay, Costa Rica one of my times down there. 

Drakes Bay is a every remote tiny jungle Pueblo on the Pacific in southern Costa Rica near the Panama border. 

When I lived there there was no roads, utilities, mail, phones, etc.

The town consisted of a small store, a cantina with no refrigeration, a one room schoolhouse and a Catholic church. There was a couple of Eco lodges.

The only way in and out of the jungle was small boat through a very dangerous river inlet or horseback.

Our water came unfiltered gravity fed from the stream that ran along side our property. I went upstream and stuck a half inch plastic pipe in the water and that was it. The water was so pure none of us ever got sick.

Our electricity came from a ancient hand crank diesel-powered generator. It was one of only five in the area. This gave us refrigeration by way of a freezer. A refrigerator was impossible because the generator would then have to run all day. I ran it a hour at a time 4 times a day. The diesel fuel had to be hauled up the steep hill I lives on from the boat in 5 gallon containers by one of my 2 horses. 

My youngest kid wasn't born yet but the other kids lived this idyllic life with us. They went to school by fording 2 streams. The school was right on the Pacific and they used to swim on their lunch hour. There was a hitching post for kids who lived far away to ride horses to school. 

Banana trees, coconut trees and other fruits trees grew wild. We would sit on the beach pay a kid to climb a coconut tree and drink coconut milk and eat the meat fresh off the tree. 

The area was teeming with wildlife. We used to eat dinner a watch the rare white faced monkeys out the window eating bananas. There was also lots of scorpions and bad ass snakes. 

The cantina used to bring in a small band down the river timed with the full moon. That way people could walk home (most couldn't afford horses) and not step on snakes.

There was vitally no police presence. A guy used to walk in every couple of weeks or so. It was what I refer to as jungle law. It someone got caught stealing a few guys would pay him a night time visit and have a very serious talk if you know what I mean. 

There is so much more to this story.

What's yours!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Yes, I have - here in Alaska but not long term. Eventually, I'd like to get back to that way of life on a full time basis.

There is no well on my property but clean water is half a mile away, which is supplied from a sand point. It is collected into a 65 gallon water tank and hauled by trailer back up to the cabin. From there it's pumped up to a 180 gal. tank located inside the cabin. The water for dishes originally came from 5 gallon containers with a spout but later it was supplied to a sink by a gravity fed system. It leaves via a french drain. 

Otherwise there currently is no indoor plumbing. A sauna is used as a bath house, which is about a quarter of a mile away. There's nothing like stepping from that hot, steamy building and out into a black starry night. I usually take a slow ride back afterwards on a 4 wheeler. I just throw off the towel on the way back. Aside from the fact that it feels good, the change in temperature totally clears your mind, it's an exhilarating experience. 

Eventually, the water system was upgraded to include a pump and expansion chamber to give better pressure and control. There still is no water heater in the cabin so when I do dishes I have to heat up the water on the stove first. 

Propane was used for the refrigeration (and the same for the cook stove) but more recently I wanted to lessen my dependency on any type of fuel. Cost was one of the reasons (environmental being another) and since I knew that I could get my energy basically for free I started looking at other options. Last summer, the solar system was set up. Prior to that electricity was supplied by a gas generator.

There is no school out there, any children in the area are home schooled but when the fishing was better, there were several lodges and places for people to gather. Back in the day there were as many as 7 lodges on the river. People from all over the world flew in to fish, it was an interesting but very different time. I'm told on occasion dancers (strippers) would be flown in for entertainment. 

Now, the only King Salmon fishing that is done is primarily through illegal means. The original French and German visitors still come over once a year despite the river being closed down to King fishing. For 1-2 years moose hunting had been closed as well.

Some people don't like Pike, but I do. They're rather plentiful, despite Fish and Game's attempts to eradicate them from the river. In the spring there's fiddle heads and berries available throughout the summer and into the fall. Chaga and the the Devils Club plant are particularly good for medicinal purposes. 

I don't duck hunt but if I lived out there full time I would just for protein variety. Gardening is possible (though much better in the interior where the temps are warmer and more stable), but given the short growing season in this area, strategic planning is necessary. The full time residents in the area have greenhouses to prolong growing in order to vary their produce a bit.

Obviously because I don't live there year round, I don't farm (nor does anyone out there) but if anyone watches "Alaska: the Last Frontier" (TV program), that show depicts what my own experiences have been like. Given the fact that most of the immediate land is owned by family and the community is fairly small but spread out people frequently join together to complete big projects, elders are given an extra helping hand no matter the task, and holidays are hosted by different full time residents, etc. 

Heat is supplied by oil or wood. My preference is to use wood as my heating source. It's messier and less stable than oil but requires an entire shut down if you have to leave to head to town. Several people run dual systems so they don't have to shut their entire cabin down when they go to town for supplies.

Oil is what I use currently but I have about 2 years of firewood put up as I do eventually plan to convert back to using wood. I'll be using a dual or back up oil system by then. 

Most folks don't like the task of dealing with putting up firewood. It can be hard work, but to me it's very rewarding and is probably one of my favorite work based tasks to do out there. I enjoy it so much I get invited to help others put up their next seasons worth. Same with butchering moose, for that my only request is that we save any trim offs for my dogs.

My place inaccessible by road (boat, air, or snow machine only), but that certainly it didn't inhibit my choices regarding the building structure or amenities (current or planned). It probably goes without saying that coordinates are a must if you need help. A few years ago I was out there for an extended stay when I heard a low flying helicopter go right overhead. Everyone out there knows what what a helicopter in the area means (medical emergency or death).

Unfortunately, my friends wife didn't have the right location and what would have been a 20 minute trip took over an hour for them to arrive. By the time they landed he had died. They needed assistance to remove his body from the cabin. His body was set on a 4 wheeler trailer to transport the it to the helicopter.

Out there, aside from an accident the greatest threat is the wildlife. Even when traveling by foot makes sense, most agree traveling by ATV is safer.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Great write up, Nicole.

It's interesting to compare the tropical vs Alaska survival differences.

Heat and hot water was unnecessary in the jungle. 

My house was built with 5 different kinds of hardwood. It was on stilts to keep snakes at bay. I wish I had photos but when I got back to the civilized world I loaded them on my computer which crashed and I never backed it up. Very stupid. 

The next Pueblo over used to butcher a pig once a week. I would horseback ride down the beach and bring back pork. 

The shrimp boats used to come in once in a while to get drunk at the cantina. I had a boat and would go out to where they anchored and buy shrimp. Those were great dinners. 

The rest of the time.my wife would catch a ride up the river, then on road to a small town to pick up groceries. All in all it was a 3 hour one way trip. 

Medical was a big issue. The girl next door got snake bit at dusk one night and had to wait until daybreak to get to a hospital because the inlet was too dangerous to run at night. There was no such thing as medical choppers there.The hospital was 4 hours away by boat and then taxi.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I like hearing about stuff like that. Even in town here, you can still barter for services. People still post up with fresh fish and shrimp. I purchase 10 red salmon a year from a fisherman that brings them in fresh. He sells them whole. A few hours of work and I've got a reasonable cache of reds until the following year.

My cabin is up off the ground as well. I would have preferred log but given the problems others had with rodents, flies, moths, leakage, insulation (drafts), sealing, and the limitations for wiring - I went with a conventional structure. 

It's obviously not very rustic looking. But as time has gone on and the closer it gets to being finished I've opted to add rustic design features/colors to bring that rustic element in.

The R value is significantly greater than that of what a log wall is. The difference is that logs hold the heat longer once they are heated up. Course this is more significant to those with wood burning stoves. 

Insurance coverage was another concern (log vs stick frame), this is true for roofing and heating choices. And probably more importantly, since I planned to eventually live out there I had to consider what would be more practical choices as I aged.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes, on Butaritari aka Big Makin. In a two-room hut made of coconut midribs and pandanus logs and roof of pandanus thatch. No electricity, no running water. I developed awesome back and shoulder/arm muscles hauling water from a brackish well. The island's population toileted on the reefside of the atoll which Nature flushed twice daily. Shower was a coconut shell in a pail of water. Had a kerosene lamp for a little time in the evening. Because there was no refrigeration, people shared a lot, e.g. fish. If a pig was killed for some kind of celebration like a wedding, it was cut up and shared out. The two bad insults in this culture were to be called a thief or stingy. As this place was right on the equator, the sun rose and set at the same time all year. There wasn't much to do in the evenings unless there was a community gathering, so it was mostly just crawl under the mosquito net when darkness fell. 

The people were superb. They really knew what was important in life. They are princes of both courage and laughter, and masters of survival. Some guys from this country drifted in an open boat with almost no tools or supplies and survived for 7 months. You can hear more of that story in this video (the survival at sea story starts about 4:30 mark on the video). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40KjAvdwfWs
There have been others who drifted as far as Panama and survived.

The I-Kiribati are a people as remarkable for their physical courage and tenacity as they are for their kindness and generosity. It breaks my heart that their simple homes on the atolls they love so much will fall below the ocean if climate change continues, because no place in the country is more than 2-3 metres above sea level.
I hope to go back there for a visit. I learned a lot there.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I will tell you one thing building on posts doesn't help with.....scorpions.

Shaking out your clothes before you put on becomes second nature. 

I never expected that I even had to do that with my hat......wrong!

I went to flip it on one day and out dropped a scoping on the floor. 

I spent the next half hour trying to catch the fast little bastard.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

How about poisonous centipedes? They used to live in the roof thatch and fall onto people.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> How about poisonous centipedes? They used to live in the roof thatch and fall onto people.


I hate centipedes. They are faster than scorpions.

We didn't need kerosene lamps. I had deep cycle 12 volt batteries and a charger that the generator charged. We ran everything but the freezer on 12 volt. 

I agree the people that live that remote are usually class acts.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I agree the people that live that remote are usually class acts.


I agree, not just remotely but in countries that place emphasis on a balance of work and leisure, and a strong social support network appear to correspond highly with happiness.

Lee, car batteries are what was originally used in my cabin. To support eventual growth, it was wired for both 120 and 12 volt, when the generator ran it recharged the batteries, which as you noted above could be used for basic things as well. 

Meg, what opportunity happened to bring you to Butaritari? I haven't checked out the video yet but I will shortly. I like the simplicity of the situation you described. By bringing in upgrades to my cabin, it no doubt invited a different set of concerns/issues that to some extent I would have preferred to do without.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Nicole Stark said:


> I agree, not just remotely but in countries that place emphasis on a balance of work and leisure, and a strong social support network appear to correspond highly with happiness.
> Meg, what opportunity happened to bring you to Butaritari? I haven't checked out the video yet but I will shortly. I like the simplicity of the situation you described. By bringing in upgrades to my cabin, it no doubt invited a different set of concerns/issues that to some extent I would have preferred to do without.



I went to teach in an outer island school that the locals had set up because they were unhappy their kids hadn't been selected (by exams) to go to the government high school in the capital city, Tarawa. I had to learn the local language first. Some of my students were really great fisherman, and I ate more fresh lobster there than I have ever had elsewhere. These kids would show up with fish or seafood as gifts of appreciation (it was a subsistence economy), and then it was time to to clean and scale and cook the fish because there was no way to save it. People didn't salt fish there.

It is way easier to live the simple life in a tropical climate than in a northern one. I also lived off the grid in AK at the bottom of the Kenai penninsula, in a two-room log cabin with water from those big blue plastic jugs w/ spigots, and an outhouse way yonder. I didn't try wintering in that scenario. 

I liked reading your description of laying in the winter wood supply. I grew up with wood heat. I love the smell of woodsmoke.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

That's a very interesting story. Thanks for clarifying.

I also love the smell of woodsmoke. I'm a regular user of essential oils and Vettiver happens to be one of my favorite oils. It has a light smoky/earthy presence with a slightly citrus undertone. I put it in my hair or mix with lavender and apply it to my pillows/pulse points and inhale just before bed.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

One thing I learned during my time in AK, was that there were two Alaskas. One was visible from the road, and the other one you could only reach by plane, boat, etc. I think the experiences of the latter are very much different from the former. 

The same goes for the Yukon Territory, another great place with so few people and such long winters. I first drove the Cassiar "highway" (which at that time was still partially gravel washboard road) to Whitehorse in 1978 and we went for days without seeing vehicles (it wasn't summer). I read the population density in the Yukon is .2 per square mile. Definitely not a place to live rural unless you know what you are doing and are very self-reliant.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

+1 for vetiver. I've never smelled its pure oil, but it is in several of my favorite perfumes (which I don't wear much any more for concern of screwing up my dog's nose, lol).


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

As "primitive" as this all sounds to a lot of people I think it would be a great way of life but it would have to be the jungle. 
Bugs, snakes, crocks, all sorts of critters don't bother me a bit but the damn cold............no way!

There are a couple of TV shows about today's pioneers in Alaska that look like a wonderful, hard working way of life but then comes the snow. 8-[ [-X

My wife on the other hand thinks roughing it means having to make a second call for room service.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Lee, you may find this video entertaining. There is even a Malinois breeder on this island.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/03/lasqueti-island-off-the-grid-documentary_n_6793446.html


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Lee, you may find this video entertaining. There is even a Malinois breeder on this island.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/03/lasqueti-island-off-the-grid-documentary_n_6793446.html


My now deceased Rottie was with us in the rain forest. 

He adjusted. 

He dug a hole under a tree during the day. When he would get too hot he would go down and swim. We fronted the Pacific. 

He turned kind of nocturnal when it was cooler.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> I went to teach in an outer island school that the locals had set up because they were unhappy their kids hadn't been selected (by exams) to go to the government high school in the capital city, Tarawa. I had to learn the local language first. Some of my students were really great fisherman, and I ate more fresh lobster there than I have ever had elsewhere. These kids would show up with fish or seafood as gifts of appreciation (it was a subsistence economy), and then it was time to to clean and scale and cook the fish because there was no way to save it. People didn't salt fish there.
> 
> It is way easier to live the simple life in a tropical climate than in a northern one. I also lived off the grid in AK at the bottom of the Kenai penninsula, in a two-room log cabin with water from those big blue plastic jugs w/ spigots, and an outhouse way yonder. I didn't try wintering in that scenario.
> 
> I liked reading your description of laying in the winter wood supply. I grew up with wood heat. I love the smell of woodsmoke.


I forgot about that. I described getting shrimp from the shrimp boats.

That area in Costa Rica has world class fishing. We always has fresh caught fish. 

I had the only refrigeration in our area. The neighbors always brought over stuff they needed refrigerated. As a thank you they shared their fish.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> As "primitive" as this all sounds to a lot of people I think it would be a great way of life but it would have to be the jungle.
> Bugs, snakes, crocks, all sorts of critters don't bother me a bit but the damn cold............no way!
> 
> There are a couple of TV shows about today's pioneers in Alaska that look like a wonderful, hard working way of life but then comes the snow. 8-[ [-X
> ...


When I was younger I could have done Alaska, no problem. Something changed as I aged. 

I lost all desire for a cold weather climate.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Cold weather sucks ass.

You three's stories are great  I lived in a van on a beach for two years does that count?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Matt Vandart said:


> Cold weather sucks ass.
> 
> You three's stories are great  I lived in a van on a beach for two years does that count?


That certainly does count. 

In Costa Rica in the Tamarindo area where our store is the ****** hippys camp on the beach.

They set up little lean tos and sell homemade trinkets and hash pipes on the street. 

The rest of the time they surf and sell their women when they are hard up for cash. Prostitution is legal there. 

It's a real bohemian existence.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

I watched the video, Meg.

It was interesting.

The little Pueblo where I lived had about 400 people living within 5 miles. Most were Central American Indians.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Lee, my bets buddy just got back from his first marlin fishing trip in Costa Rica. He goes down there at least once a yr mainly for Peacock Bass and a few other lake/river fish. 

He also goes fishing up in Canada and Alaska for Pike on a regular basis. 

His only complaint about the North is is the long days. At 73 those kill him because he doesn't keep tract of time. 

South it's getting the shots, the pills and the bugs.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Nicole and Meg: Okay, I'm going to embarrass myself and say it.....I AM YOUR BIGGEST FAN! I've always appreciated the slightly off kilter way you gals sometimes look at various scenarios, seeing them from a slightly different perspective, and I've always thought both of you have wonderfully wicked senses of humor, and now this? You are modern amazons, incredibly self reliant and brave. The one thing I regret is that when I was younger I didn't strike out and head for Alaska, it was something I always wanted to do, but just didn't have the gumption or enough drive, or confidence or whatever that thing is that it takes for a woman to do something like that on her own, I just flat out didn't have it. I admire the hell out of both of you. Rock on!


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

My experience was filled with rain piss,mud and freezing nearly to death mostly, lol but the summer was half tidy


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

susan tuck said:


> Nicole and Meg: Okay, I'm going to embarrass myself and say it.....I AM YOUR BIGGEST FAN! I've always appreciated the slightly off kilter way you gals sometimes look at various scenarios, seeing them from a slightly different perspective, and I've always thought both of you have wonderfully wicked senses of humor, and now this? You are modern amazons, incredibly self reliant and brave. The one thing I regret is that when I was younger I didn't strike out and head for Alaska, it was something I always wanted to do, but just didn't have the gumption or enough drive, or confidence or whatever that thing is that it took to do something like that on my own, I just flat out didn't have it. I admire the hell out of both of you. Rock on!


Have you also noticed that people posting on here are some of the more open minded on the forum, I wonder if the two co-relate

Edit: and also if it is the experience that led to the open mindedness or the open mindedness that led to the experience, where's Rick when you need him eh


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words, Susan. I'm raising my daughter as an Amazon also. I come from a long line of them. 

Matt, sometimes I do feel like I'm out in left field, lol. Living in other cultures, especially if you are living at basic levels, does allow the insight that there are many different ways of doing things, and it is important for people to choose for themselves.

In response to your posts, I think living in a van at the beach would be great, as long as the water was warm and there weren't a lot of people in the area. Also, I really enjoy watching your dog videos, because you seem to have left your ego behind and are genuinely interested in learning as a team with your dogs.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Nicole and Meg: Okay, I'm going to embarrass myself and say it.....I AM YOUR BIGGEST FAN! I've always appreciated the slightly off kilter way you gals sometimes look at various scenarios, seeing them from a slightly different perspective, and I've always thought both of you have wonderfully wicked senses of humor, and now this? You are modern amazons, incredibly self reliant and brave. The one thing I regret is that when I was younger I didn't strike out and head for Alaska, it was something I always wanted to do, but just didn't have the gumption or enough drive, or confidence or whatever that thing is that it takes for a woman to do something like that on her own, I just flat out didn't have it. I admire the hell out of both of you. Rock on!


I thought AMAZON was on line shopping.☺


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Thanks for the kind words, Susan. I'm raising my daughter as an Amazon also. I come from a long line of them.
> 
> Matt, sometimes I do feel like I'm out in left field, lol. Living in other cultures, especially if you are living at basic levels, does allow the insight that there are many different ways of doing things, and it is important for people to choose for themselves.
> 
> In response to your posts, I think living in a van at the beach would be great, as long as the water was warm and there weren't a lot of people in the area. Also, I really enjoy watching your dog videos, because you seem to have left your ego behind and are genuinely interested in learning as a team with your dogs.


Are you sure it was kind? Off kilter might mean NUTS!☺


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Matt Vandart said:


> Have you also noticed that people posting on here are some of the more open minded on the forum, I wonder if the two co-relate
> 
> Edit: and also if it is the experience that led to the open mindedness or the open mindedness that led to the experience, where's Rick when you need him eh


I can't describe how upset I am about Rick!

It was such a cute, fun, innocent☺ thread I started about rick I don't see how he could be offended.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> Are you sure it was kind? Off kilter might mean NUTS!☺


Maybe to some though not to me, from me it was meant as high praise...but then I like being a slightly off kilter nut myself.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Maybe to some though not to me, from me it was meant as high praise...but then I like being a slightly off kilter nut myself.


I know how it was meant! I was teasing and I totally agree with you.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

You Amazon wimmins ROCK! :wink:

I wouldn't call it "off kilter" "crazy" or "nuts"

I would call it courageous, creative and rightfully proud!


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Whatever it is it works for me. 

I look at it as just living life honestly, right now, and not entangled in the usual BS drama, possession entangled existence that many people call a meaningful life. We all live as we are in this very moment. As for that journey to Alaska, it just wasn't your time then Susan. You can always come visit, though my set up isn't quite as primitive as it might come across as being, given it's location.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

susan tuck said:


> Nicole and Meg: Okay, I'm going to embarrass myself and say it.....I AM YOUR BIGGEST FAN!


I know you know this, but I will say it anyway… don't ever feel that way about being honest or for expressing appreciation. I probably have a tendency to embarrass other people with my honesty, but I don't apologize for it unless I was being a bitch - which I try not to do, at least not on purpose.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

There are two simple things I want to add to all this.

It was interesting and fun. 

I would still be there other than the kids were growing up and we wanted the education and exposure to the real world.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> There are two simple things I want to add to all this.
> 
> It was interesting and fun.
> 
> I would still be there other than the kids were growing up and we wanted the education and exposure to the real world.


Trick question: which "world" was more real? I know I'm living in the modern one now, but the other simpler ones seemed way more real on a day-to-day basis. Sometimes what I see in "this world" of "consumption at any cost" prompts the Q: WTF? Especially because people don't seem happier, healthier, or more capable due to living in the consumerist way.

I think there is a generation of some youth coming up who are pondering about this and trying to reorient themselves to lives more accountable to their communities and local economy & environment. I have met some of these kids and they have a lot of energy and can work hard. I wish there were more of them, so they could get things back on track. Hope springs eternal.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Thanks for the kind words, Susan. I'm raising my daughter as an Amazon also. I come from a long line of them.
> 
> Matt, sometimes I do feel like I'm out in left field, lol. Living in other cultures, especially if you are living at basic levels, does allow the insight that there are many different ways of doing things, and it is important for people to choose for themselves.
> 
> In response to your posts, I think living in a van at the beach would be great, as long as the water was warm and there weren't a lot of people in the area. Also, I really enjoy watching your dog videos, because you seem to have left your ego behind and are genuinely interested in learning as a team with your dogs.


Aw thanks 

Nah the water was freezing most of the time but there wasn't many people around, good surfing though


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Trick question: which "world" was more real? I know I'm living in the modern one now, but the other simpler ones seemed way more real on a day-to-day basis. Sometimes what I see in "this world" of "consumption at any cost" prompts the Q: WTF? Especially because people don't seem happier, healthier, or more capable due to living in the consumerist way.
> 
> I think there is a generation of some youth coming up who are pondering about this and trying to reorient themselves to lives more accountable to their communities and local economy & environment. I have met some of these kids and they have a lot of energy and can work hard. I wish there were more of them, so they could get things back on track. Hope springs eternal.


I get what you are saying. 

Maybe "real" was the wrong word.

How about "other" world


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Lee H Sternberg said:


> I get what you are saying.
> 
> Maybe "real" was the wrong word.
> 
> How about "other" world


We can surely agree on that, Lee.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I never lived there, but spent lots of time at our family cottage growing up. I never thought of it as off the grid, it was just the reality of putting a cottage on a chunk of remote Georgian Bay rock. Water access only, no hydro, no phone (this was long before cell phones), a flush toilet and running water, but only because putting in a septic system was required before a cottage could be built, propane camp stove to cook and heat water, cooler for food. I fished for rock bass, (caught them and threw them back), read books, canoed, swam and just hung out, and at night, we played cards by the light of a kerosene lantern and listened to a battery powered radio. 

That would still be my ideal getaway.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

leslie cassian said:


> I never lived there, but spent lots of time at our family cottage growing up. I never thought of it as off the grid, it was just the reality of putting a cottage on a chunk of remote Georgian Bay rock. Water access only, no hydro, no phone (this was long before cell phones), a flush toilet and running water, but only because putting in a septic system was required before a cottage could be built, propane camp stove to cook and heat water, cooler for food. I fished for rock bass, (caught them and threw them back), read books, canoed, swam and just hung out, and at night, we played cards by the light of a kerosene lantern and listened to a battery powered radio.
> 
> That would still be my ideal getaway.


Sounds like the ideal childhood experience.


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## Robert Blunk (Jul 29, 2012)

I spent 7 days in a remote village in Ghana W Africa doing health surveys, hygiene training and promoting a recently installed water chlorination system. Water sources are minimal and what is available in shallow wells will make us sick though they have built up a tolerance. Thankfully there were 3 nationals there also doing training in permacluture who spoke english. The nights are long and we had great discussions. During the day I had a translator. The food was hard to eat because of bones. The villagers are very hard working, generous, tough and live off the land.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> I also love the smell of woodsmoke. I'm a regular user of essential oils and Vettiver happens to be one of my favorite oils. It has a light smoky/earthy presence with a slightly citrus undertone. I put it in my hair or mix with lavender and apply it to my pillows/pulse points and inhale just before bed.


 I love it too! Sometimes I'll dab a tiny bit of Vettiver and Muelhens 4711 on my wrists.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

I live on a very nice little piece of land here in Thailand,used to live in Alberta when i was young and i remember taking the dogs for a walk in the crispy snow during full moon.
Did some travelling and ended up here,should have moved here a lot earlier but life happens.
Last year i bought a piece of land on a river next to the jungle,there was no road so we made one.The 4x4 comes in real handy in the raining season.
On the way there we always see wild elephants and because it is not to far from Myanmar(burma) there are 
also tigers in the area.
The people there are not really Thai but are mostly mountain people from Myanmar,the kids speak Thai.
The clothes are still washed in the river and we see some ladies walking around and picking leaves and 
plants to eat for dinner,the usually carry a bamboo pole to go fishing.
There is electricity there now but not on our piece of paradise,solar will do for now.
Already here we are pretty self sufficient growing most of the veggies and catching fish in the creek.
I am planning to build a house out of river rock and keep it simple but practical.
Last summer i put on my helmet and was stung twice by a scorpion,hurts like hell!!
A lot of pythons come down from the mountain to steal our chickens but they don't scare me,i grab them and wrestle them into a bag.Cobras is another story,king cobras are very deadly and a lot of people get killed every year in the rice field when the meet up with one.
The thought of snow now scares me,if it goes down to 15 celsius here i am shaking and shivering.
Today we finished digging a hole to be able to place a water ram pump in there,pumping water without the use of any kind of power.
I think i am very lucky to live here,it is not for every one but it sure suites me.
I always hoped i would end up in the woods somewhere with a chainsaw and a woodstove.
Cutting and chopping wood was a hobby of mine and that is one thing i miss here.
It seems you can have everything,but not at the same time!


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Around Mae Sai?
It sounds nice. I miss having the fresh fruit/veg and flowers year round.
There aren't many wild tigers left so you are lucky if you see them.
Enjoy your jungle life.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Kudos to you Jack!


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

It is in the Pala-U area,a famous waterfall in the area.Water in the river is clean,we are only a few hundred meters from another waterfall and that is where the river's water comes from.
There are no roads to Myanmar but you can walk there but i was told it is very dangerous.
The danger does not come from anything big but a lot of insects are bad news to anyone not used to jungle life.
I hope to see a tiger some day but i would be very lucky(or not) to see one.
Some of the locals know where they can be found and of course poachers,last year two tigers where found dead in a pick-up during a road check.


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## Catherine Gervin (Mar 12, 2012)

susan tuck said:


> Nicole and Meg: Okay, I'm going to embarrass myself and say it.....I AM YOUR BIGGEST FAN! I've always appreciated the slightly off kilter way you gals sometimes look at various scenarios, seeing them from a slightly different perspective, and I've always thought both of you have wonderfully wicked senses of humor, and now this? You are modern amazons, incredibly self reliant and brave. The one thing I regret is that when I was younger I didn't strike out and head for Alaska, it was something I always wanted to do, but just didn't have the gumption or enough drive, or confidence or whatever that thing is that it takes for a woman to do something like that on her own, I just flat out didn't have it. I admire the hell out of both of you. Rock on!


i'm afraid that i've got to second this thought adamantly. i know that i could never handle living in Alaska--weather that kills you, bears that kill you, needing to be capable of accurate, diligent planning because errors can kill you...life there is just too precipitous and i am too scatterbrained. that only makes it yet another impressive aspect, which is to say nothing of how unassuming and helpful and open you both are, in spite of your qualifications/legitimacy to be totally otherwise--you could lord it over lesser people, you could cry out "you don't know what the hell you are talking about, you can't walk the line, i know because i DO" time and time again on this forum, but you don't. instead, you offer sage advice to help out those who know less than you do.
i don't tend to get along well with women in general, but i think you are both awesome!


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## Sarah Platts (Jan 12, 2010)

Lee, 

What are the name for these trees or what do you call them? I ran into them when I was down in Costa Rica and the baby ones are even more wicked.


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Ouch trees?


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Catherine Gervin said:


> i'm afraid that i've got to second this thought adamantly. i know that i could never handle living in Alaska--weather that kills you, bears that kill you, needing to be capable of accurate, diligent planning because errors can kill you...life there is just too precipitous and i am too scatterbrained. that only makes it yet another impressive aspect, which is to say nothing of how unassuming and helpful and open you both are, in spite of your qualifications/legitimacy to be totally otherwise--you could lord it over lesser people, you could cry out "you don't know what the hell you are talking about, you can't walk the line, i know because i DO" time and time again on this forum, but you don't. instead, you offer sage advice to help out those who know less than you do.
> i don't tend to get along well with women in general, but i think you are both awesome!


Don't worry about bears killing you but the State Bird (giant mosquitoes) are murder and makes you wish you were dead.☺


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Sarah Platts said:


> View attachment 5914
> 
> View attachment 5922
> 
> ...


Pochote....guailty wood used for furniture and house siding.

I don't know the English name if there is one.

CR has some gorgeous hardwoods.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I do a lot of wood working but I'm not familiar with Pochote.

In looking it up it references a number of different trees of the same classification.

I suspect that's like the different oaks, maples. hickory trees, etc.

South America is loaded with trees that produce some striking wood. Some of which are now rare because of over harvesting. 

Most all is high dollar here.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> I do a lot of wood working but I'm not familiar with Pochote.
> 
> In looking it up it references a number of different trees of the same classification.
> 
> ...


It's even expensive down there. That's why they don't use it much for siding any more. 

When we were building our jungle house there was always 2 different prices for hardwoods, the legal and illegal harvested lumber. 

We were right next to a large national park.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

if you believe in Wiki :razz:
quote : 
Pachira quinata, commonly known as Pochote, is a species of flowering tree in the mallow family, Malvaceae. It inhabits dry forests in Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras Panama, Venezuela, and Colombia.[2] Pochotes bear large, stubby thorns on their trunk and branches and are often planted as living fenceposts with barbed wire strung between them. Those thorns are also often used to make small house-like sculptures that are believed to bring protection to someone's house since the Pochote is believed to be sacred.

i'm big on woodworking too. when i was working in and around the Mindanao, R.P., i managed to get ahold of a nice stock of "Kamagong" (ebony).....a bunch of 6x6 cants about 6ft long.....beautiful stuff
- had big plans for it; finally got it up to the Subic Bay area.....
- then Mt Pinatubo went up, buried my stash and i had to spend all my time getting out of Dodge. that ash came down for hours and it was like it was raining mortar :-(
- that was definitely an "off grid" time .... the area looked like it had been nuked :-(
- never seen a jungle without green, and it even took a few days for the insects to dig out and start making noises again


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Tough loss on a cool find with the ebony.

The few times I've used it I made my own. 
Hard maple cut to size then hand rubbed with a little TransTint in denatured alcohol. Needs a few coats but looks great. 

TransTint on it's own would do the trick quicker but at 25 bucks for a 2oz bottle I'll take the time.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Well what do you know! Looks like I might get my wish even at this late date. My hubby and 4 of his friends just bought a cabin in Ketchikan, Alaska. 

I'm stoked. 8)


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Outstanding!


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

susan tuck said:


> Well what do you know! Looks like I might get my wish even at this late date. My hubby and 4 of his friends just bought a cabin in Ketchikan, Alaska.
> 
> I'm stoked. 8)


You'll love it up there! Take the ferry up from Bellingham and you'll see amazing coastline. My bro married into family on Annette Island across from Ketchikan. I enjoy visiting there, especially because he works on the AMH ferry system so everywhere we went, he met people he knew. It is really great that this door is opening in your life. I hope your hubby likes to fish.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> You'll love it up there! Take the ferry up from Bellingham and you'll see amazing coastline. My bro married into family on Annette Island across from Ketchikan. I enjoy visiting there, especially because he works on the AMH ferry system so everywhere we went, he met people he knew. It is really great that this door is opening in your life. I hope your hubby likes to fish.


Thank you Meg!  Last night we were talking about taking the ferry, I've friends who have done that, too! Fishing is the reason they all went into the cabin together. The five of them have fished in Alaska and in Russia too. Peter is a recent member, he's only been fishing with the guys for a couple years, but the others have been taking fly fishing adventures in Alaska for many years.


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Can you see Russia from your house☺

Be careful of the ALASKA STATE BIRD........they grow giant mosquitoes.☺


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## Lee H Sternberg (Jan 27, 2008)

Now you need to get fork up the bucks for a pad in the tropics☺


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

They should come fly fishing in our Nicola Valley, which has the motto: A lake a day as long as you stay. Lots of good rivers and creeks too. Good fishing for steelhead at Spences Bridge.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Fly fishing with Grizzly bears waiting for you to land one sounds like my kinda fun. 8-[8-[.....:-k well......probably not! :grin:


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## Kirsten Fitzgerald (May 23, 2014)

Off the grid for 35 years in Australia. Various places but settled for last 27 here. 
Only recently getting some mod cons like hot water and a decent solar set up. raised 3 kids who grew up pretty well, and appreciate the experience but didn't always at the time.

No refrigeration or much water at the house for the 1st years. I often had to haul buckets 1 kiolmeter just for baths, then heat it on the wood stove where we also cooked. Even in summer temps of up to 45 celcius. Hot days, just cold baths, maybe with a kettle to take off any chill.

Had milking goats for fresh milk while the kids were young. 

Spiders the size of your palm were removed from the house often, the odd snake and many scorpions and centipedes. Supprised I've only had my 1st centpede bite last year,6 inch bastid got me in bed and paid. That hurt like a frozen poker ramed into my back.

A lot of medical stuff just gets done at home . No regrets, but I don't regret the mod cons one bit. Won't be getting electricity connected tho'. Solar and LP gas does it all.


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