# do you correct you dog for biting you?



## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

The Mal was particularly extra zesty and drivey while training this morning. I got bite pretty good on the hand when he went for the tug. Do you correct for this? And how do you do it?

I just called him a ****er and quit playing.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

Not if it is unintentional like what you described. I have had that happen a lot of times. Now if a dog came up the leash at me that would be another story all together.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

I don't.... I just scream OUCH really loud and that usually has quite and effect on them.

You were doing drive building and he was "chasing" the tug right? He missed the tug but got your hand- if that is the case you can't be mad at him. I learned a while back that when we are done with the drive game I have to say "Aus" before putting the toy away. This tells the dog he's done and he needs to stop.

Now if he were biting me for taking away his prey we would be having a "come to Jesus" moment.


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## Dan Brigham (Jul 23, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> The Mal was particularly extra zesty and drivey while training this morning. I got bite pretty good on the hand when he went for the tug. Do you correct for this? And how do you do it?
> 
> I just called him a ****er and quit playing.


If you are teaching drive and accidentally getting bit, praise the hell out of him, he got the drive part. Next step is teaching targetting, well better targetting at least. 

I don't know what point you are at but suspect it is a relatively green dog, if I am wrong sorry. You need repitition and make the part of the tug that you wish bitten to be the most inviting target. A lot of bitework gets sidetracked when the pup targets the 2nd handle, when you have the first handle on a 2 handled tug OR the hand when it makes move movement than the tug from the dogs perspective. 

I have a GSD that when he was a pup, he did this a lot with the ball on a rope. I learned really quickly to make a quick snap of the wrist that makes the ball move more then the hand. As he got better and better at targetting the ball, I moved my hand closer and closer to the ball. I did this in VERY small increments, not wanting to lose digits with a dog that really attacked that ball. Over a number of months I could hold the ball on either side of the ball on that rope and he would snatch the ball out of my hand at a full gallop without a tooth touching my hand. I have used that same strategy with a tug or a leather, although it was not so incrementally and I didn't put my hand so close to the best bite area.

A few mistakes are to be expected and a good reason to teach a pup in prey. The adding of defense will bring a much harder bite that can cause a lot of extra damage to your hand. Prey can be bad enough!!!!

I am editing this to agree with Julie Alvarez, if the dog is being nasty or you are ending the game, that is something different. She put it well.

Good luck keeping your fingers.


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## Mario Fernandez (Jun 21, 2008)

First one is free, the second one is going to cost the dog.


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## Michael Breton (Aug 25, 2008)

I don't for a targeting error. If the dog hits my hand I just drop the tug (step on it if you have to to keep it dead), might say "no", might not and wait a short time until you see the light bulb come on that the dog recognizes something just happened. Then start playing again. The game is supposed to be fun and the dog is supposed to follow the rules, but hey mistakes will happen. I've got dogs that can hit the tug from 10 or 15 feet back and never touch the handlers hands. Well maybe not never:lol:.

Mistakes will happen and the dog may tag you once in a while. I find when training a handler to play tug they place their hands too far apart on the tug (fear of getting bitten) and the dog gets near their hands anyway and hits them a lot anyway. I make them put their hands closer (1 inch on each side wider than the muzzle) and the dog is forced to target better. The dogs rarely ever hit their hands. Kind of a aim small miss small idea.

It doesn't seem from your post like he was dissing you, he just got excited and missed. Give him rules and use the game or withdrawal of the game to enforce them.


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

it was a fair bite on his part, just a targeting accident. If it were something else I might have smacked him. Still, he broke the skin and made me bleed so he deserves to be called a ****er. 

I was just asking because one of the other guys said he would have whacked him because a dog should know better.

I've been using a bite pillow as reward because it's bigger but today for some reason I went back to a little 12" one handle jute tug.


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Tell the other guy to make sure he whacks the right participent....himself.
Getting bit under the circumstance you described is handler error. 
You can't blame the dog because your hand got in the way. If you're going to play with dogs, you're probably going to get bit once in awhile. That's what they do....bite.


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## Adam Rawlings (Feb 27, 2009)

The only time I correct my dog for biting, is when he outs the ball or tug and takes a dirty bite while I'm holding it. A firm NO is usually enough, but the one time I was bit hard on the hand, he got a swift open hander across the side of the head. Now he knows the rules.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Chris Michalek said:


> it was a fair bite on his part, just a targeting accident. If it were something else I might have smacked him. Still, he broke the skin and made me bleed so he deserves to be called a ****er.
> 
> I was just asking because one of the other guys said he would have whacked him because a dog should know better.
> 
> I've been using a bite pillow as reward because it's bigger but today for some reason I went back to a little 12" one handle jute tug.


Targeting accidents shouldn't be punished, you did say it was an accident, didn't you? Punish for what?
Whacking the dog because it should have known better...then why practice targeting, the dog should already know how to do it, based on that logic! Be quicker with your hands Bruce Lee!!! Waaahhhhhh


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

At least he bites hard enough to break skin. Could be worse. It is mostly your fault for having a dog that age that still needs work targeting. : )


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## Rebecca Samoska (Jun 6, 2009)

Do you also forgive the dog that redirects out of frustration and hits your arm/stomach/or whatever is flapping about?

Is it the same principle as having the target where it will be bit instead of your body, or do you stop and explain matters to them?

Talking young dog still learning, but often hitting my stomach/shirt as she misses the tug....ouch.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

My dog is not a happy when I call him out of the blind he has came very close to nailing me in the chest and the face. 
This is quite a exibit of pissed off since it happens with or with out corections when he comes to finish and it's quite impresive. He dosent do it every time I call him out and he dident do it on his SCH I 
I am willing to take one shot to the gut or chest the face NOPE!!! not sure I will tolerate 2 he will prolly grow out of it but it sure makes for a impressiv call out for now.:twisted:


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Mike,
Are you talking about the dog retargeting you out of flustration for a no bite scenerio?

Going after the handler because of an out or a call off doesn't sound impressive to me at all.
Though I'd probably laugh if I saw it happen on the field.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Randy Allen said:


> Mike,
> Are you talking about the dog retargeting you out of flustration for a no bite scenerio?
> 
> Going after the handler because of an out or a call off doesn't sound impressive to me at all.
> Though I'd probably laugh if I saw it happen on the field.


No he ain't going after me he is angry about the call out he snapping with frustration like I said he hasn't nailed me and if he ever comes near my face again I will have to fix it.
Tell me a dog leaping back after a call out snapping and snarling and nailing a perfect finish don't look impressive not sure what would.
You ain't one of them pussy Schutzhund trainers are you


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I do not correct for an accidental bite, if it is really an accident like that. When I got bit by one of my guys who knew better but was too crazy to think straight, it was game over and I dragged him back home. It really made him focus and pay attention to where my hands were the next time around. Most of my dogs know when they grab me by accident, and it is never too bad.

I have one dog who doesn't care what he bites and could hurt me badly if he gets me, so I am very careful how I play with him.


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

You know most of the time, If Addie gets me. It was my fault I had my finger in the way or the tug to close to my stomach and she did not see it....but everyonce in awhile she just is careless and gets me. When she was a pup all was forgiven...but being reckless and putting a hole in me. I have lost it and kicked her ass. She did not fall apart, she can still work, and she is much more careful now. I think like with anything else in life. There is a balance. Mistakes can happen, sometimes I am careless and get bit, sometimes she is careless and I get bit. I try to be judicial and see the difference. But everyonce in a while it will be my fault, and I have to admit...I still kick her ass.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Randy Allen said:


> Mike,
> Are you talking about the dog retargeting you out of flustration for a no bite scenerio?
> 
> Going after the handler because of an out or a call off doesn't sound impressive to me at all.
> Though I'd probably laugh if I saw it happen on the field.


One more thing there ain't no scenarios in Schutzhund you better know what your doing:mrgreen:


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## Randy Allen (Apr 18, 2008)

Mike,
You're barking up the wrong tree.

All I was looking for was some clarity in your original post.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Rebecca Samoska said:


> Do you also forgive the dog that redirects out of frustration and hits your arm/stomach/or whatever is flapping about?
> 
> Is it the same principle as having the target where it will be bit instead of your body, or do you stop and explain matters to them?
> 
> Talking young dog still learning, but often hitting my stomach/shirt as she misses the tug....ouch.


Yeah, I see this completely different from targeting error. With my dog when he was young and every once in a while he spazzed out during protection and tried to redirect onto me you bet I nailed him for that crap.


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Randy Allen said:


> Mike,
> You're barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> All I was looking for was some clarity in your original post.


That good :smile:


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Someone explain the "targeting". When is it ever ok to target the handler. Unintentional, going for the tug when play I put in the catagory of "move your hands quicker". I just don't understand the targeting part of the discussion. In our training it has to be a puncture to be classed a dog bite. 

DFrost


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I liked Ivan's method for this. It's not harsh at all but get's the point across to a drivey dog. This teaches a dog targetting and the handler is not the target. It worked for me when he was a puppy after a few weeks.


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Rebecca Samoska said:


> Do you also forgive the dog that redirects out of frustration and hits your arm/stomach/or whatever is flapping about?
> 
> Is it the same principle as having the target where it will be bit instead of your body, or do you stop and explain matters to them?
> 
> Talking young dog still learning, but often hitting my stomach/shirt as she misses the tug....ouch.


 If it's missing the tug, it could be decoy mechanics. Then again it could be a dog with bad vision!
My male Bouvier bite the back of my left hand this winter. It was a 100% drive issue and not an issue against me. However, since I had my m/c gloves on, the the bite could have lifted the skin VERY well, he got jacked just the same. Like bar fighting and accidently hitting your friend. Drinks fix everything!!!

Better know who yer chomping on!!! Redirects out of frustration aren't quiet the same thing in my book, favor over rules drives...but it will only happen ONE time!!!


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## Rebecca Samoska (Jun 6, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> If it's missing the tug, it could be decoy mechanics. Then again it could be a dog with bad vision!
> My male Bouvier bite the back of my left hand this winter. It was a 100% drive issue and not an issue against me. However, since I had my m/c gloves on, the the bite could have lifted the skin VERY well, he got jacked just the same. Like bar fighting and accidently hitting your friend. Drinks fix everything!!!
> 
> Better know who yer chomping on!!! Redirects out of frustration aren't quiet the same thing in my book, favor over rules drives...but it will only happen ONE time!!!


I think my issue is a little of both. She's young, only 6 months. When I make her miss, she'll try for anything available, usually my shirt and or side. As long as I get the tug to her no problem, but she'll bite anything if the tug is not there, including me. I'd say she gets a little out of control, and looses clarity (if that makes sense) when her drive is up. I don't think it's a targeting issue, I tried something that another member wrote above, and held her tug with both hands with only a space in between for her to bite, and she always went between my hands, never hitting me (I wasn't making her miss though). 

So far I haven't corrected for her hitting me, but I'm getting low on shirts without tears.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Rebecca Samoska said:


> I think my issue is a little of both. She's young, only 6 months. When I make her miss, she'll try for anything available, usually my shirt and or side. As long as I get the tug to her no problem, but she'll bite anything if the tug is not there, including me. I'd say she gets a little out of control, and looses clarity (if that makes sense) when her drive is up. I don't think it's a targeting issue, I tried something that another member wrote above, and held her tug with both hands with only a space in between for her to bite, and she always went between my hands, never hitting me (I wasn't making her miss though).
> 
> So far I haven't corrected for her hitting me, but I'm getting low on shirts without tears.



Rebecca,


You don't need to correct her. Just mark it with a NO and wait for a few seconds, before you restart. If she does it a couple of times in a row. Just put the tug away and put her in a crate for a half hour. If she is as drivey as it sounds? Not getting to play tug will have more of an impact than a correction


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Rebecca Samoska said:


> but I'm getting low on shirts without tears.


I know how that is. I used to put the tug up by my stomach and tell him to out and he would out and then quickly regrip causing a hole in my shirt. After a couple of little kicks to the chest he stopped that business. Now I brace up the tug between my leg but not too high because that hurts too.


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## Courtney Guthrie (Oct 30, 2007)

I kinda used Ivan B's. method for this when Judge was little. It worked fairly well IMHO. I also have never corrected him for a targeting issue on the toy or tug cause honestly, it doesn't happen often and if it does I can almost guarantee you that it was my fault. 

Judge got my leg pretty good about 4 months ago, hasn't got me since then, but it was 100% MY fault for not paying complete attention to him, I didn't pay attention to where the sleeve was/what direction he was moving in and what he was going after . It happened during training and I said, **** that hurt, and kept working. 

I'm not big on correcting the dog for targeting issues cause IME they are more of a handler error than a dog error. 

Courtney


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## Ted Efthymiadis (Apr 3, 2009)

Chris Michalek said:


> The Mal was particularly extra zesty and drivey while training this morning. I got bite pretty good on the hand when he went for the tug. Do you correct for this? And how do you do it?
> 
> I just called him a ****er and quit playing.


I just go silent, cry a little inside, then keep playing if I physically can.

If the dog tried to bite you, then that's a different story.

So rather than punish a dog for doing what you are teaching it to do, I would suggest that you get faster hands!

I was watching a video from L--rburg, online the other day, and Ed took a few bites to the hand from one of there Mondio dogs. I had to chuckle, because it was in no way the dogs fault, Ed was just much too slow. 

Good luck training.


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