# Super dog program



## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

http://breedingbetterdogs.com/pdfFiles/articles/early_neurological_stimulation_en.pdf

So I have been researching this. I have seen several dogs from good breeders who swear by this method. I don't know about all the claims it boasts, such as health benefits, but it seems as if nearly the entire litters work. I am trying it with my pups. Any opinions?


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

julie allen said:


> http://breedingbetterdogs.com/pdfFiles/articles/early_neurological_stimulation_en.pdf
> 
> So I have been researching this. I have seen several dogs from good breeders who swear by this method. I don't know about all the claims it boasts, such as health benefits, but it seems as if nearly the entire litters work. I am trying it with my pups. Any opinions?


 good luck...been hashed and rehashed.. most are of the opinion (from what I remember) that if done correctly, nothing bad will happen, and that no one is sure if it actually does anything, but that it is easy to do, and some people do it, because they feel it does something maybe and they like to do it...

google is better at searching it that the search here...

here is one of many links on the subject being discussed here...should be a good starting point..

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f28/breeders-bio-sensor-stressing-11026/


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Thanks Joby. I have looked online, was wanting opinions if anyone was using it on the board. The previous threads were helpful. 

I don't see where it could hurt anything to try.


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## Peter Cavallaro (Dec 1, 2010)

No expert here, but see no harm in it.if nothing else all pups would at least get some human bonding/socialisation from it. 

At worst its like the healing power of crystals - complete waste of time but makes folks feel better, in their own heads.

I would go for it.


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

I have a 10 week old Mal male pup that the litter went through this. I'm still doing a lot of it and the pup is still peeing on the floor.


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Gerald if you had stopped at day sixteen he would never have began peeing on the floor


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i've read this article before and it raised some questions based on my limited (anecdotal) experience; plus i didn't verify any of the refs it cited and haven't reviewed the web site 

re: the breeding better dogs link 
for those who may not be familiar with the author of the link; i pasted this :

"ABOUT THE AUTHOR 

Carmen L Battaglia holds a Ph.D. and Masters Degree from Florida State University. As 
an AKC judge, researcher and writer, he has been a leader in promotion of breeding 
better dogs and has written many articles and several books. 

Dr. Battaglia is also a popular TV and radio talk show speaker. His seminars on breeding dogs, selecting sires and choosing puppies have been well received by the breed clubs all over the country. Those interested in learning more about his seminars should contact him directly. Visit his website at http://www.breedingbetterdogs.com "

i tend to get more interested from dog people who have a different background.....JMO of course


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Julie, as was stated, doing it won't hurt the pups. What it will do is get them very used to being handled so it will make it harder to see the quality of what you have. If you want to see where all the procedures came from that are supposed to be so revolutionary.....put a chair next to a whelping box and ovserve what is going on. Actually observe....not just look at them and get all fuzzy. You will see everything cited in the procedures actually taking place in the box without any intervention from you. Took a PHD to sit and watch the natural intereaction in a whelping box to realize people are just that unobservant. As for proving what the pups turned out to be????? Tell me how they knew how they would turn out without this. They don't, never will. Long story short....no, it won't change what they are....if it did, every dog would be a super dog because it all will unfold right in front of you if you watch the pups.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

julie allen said:


> Gerald if you had stopped at day sixteen he would never have began peeing on the floor


Now THAT's funny! Do you think if I play classical music to conceal the xbox gunfire, I might have less dog aggression?


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Lol, Daryl that all depends on the bloodlines.

Don, I see what goes on between mom and littermates. However, this is just that, between dogs. I have never seen a young pup flip out if mom rolls it over, but I have seen pups freak if a person handled it like mom would. 
If it isn't going to change what's in the dog, how is it covering up anything? 

I think its an interesting concept. I don't see that it will do all it claims. I do not believe it will transform every pup into a super dog by any means. I don't think it will hurt anything, so I will try and see.

I do agree with you don on not knowing what the pups would be without the handling. Dogs just aren't equal to begin with.


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## Brett Bowen (May 2, 2011)

If I remember the military studies correctly on this topic (and I may not) I believe they (or someone did) split litters in half and did this with half the litter and not with the other half. The half where they did these exercises with were "better" than the other half. The hypothesis they claimed to prove was that given the same genetic makeup great improvements were seen. 

I'm a skeptic. That being said, I'd do it with my litters if I were in that business. What are you loosing if it's snake oil? 5 minutes a day that you would handle the pups anyway?


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

The whole thing is, it won't hurt the pups to do it. How beneficial it is pretty much a moot point because people handle the pups all the time anyway. Personally, I don't see any point in handling them until they are on their feet. With no prior conditioning, I can see what the pup brings to the table on his own. The Super dog program was started for a reason. It was also disbanded for a reason.


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## Jerry Lyda (Apr 4, 2006)

My pups are 2 weeks and 5 days old now. I have 4 grand babies that come over every day and play with the pups. I don't allow a lot of stress to the pups but this has always worked with the other litters. ( GSD and Bostons ) The last litter of GSD all are working ( 8 ) except for one. This one belongs to people that are older and travel. That pup would have worked too. 

This works for me.


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## Denise King (May 31, 2009)

julie allen said:


> http://breedingbetterdogs.com/pdfFiles/articles/early_neurological_stimulation_en.pdf
> 
> So I have been researching this. I have seen several dogs from good breeders who swear by this method. I don't know about all the claims it boasts, such as health benefits, but it seems as if nearly the entire litters work. I am trying it with my pups. Any opinions?


The breeder of my two dogs has been doing this for years. She is a firm believer. Both my Rotts are very biddable. Of course that isn't scientific ut my feeling is that is sure doesn't hurt anything!


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

So a pup that growls through the entire process... Is this a shitter?


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2008)

Don Turnipseed said:


> The whole thing is, it won't hurt the pups to do it. How beneficial it is pretty much a moot point because people handle the pups all the time anyway. Personally, I don't see any point in handling them until they are on their feet. With no prior conditioning, I can see what the pup brings to the table on his own. The Super dog program was started for a reason. It was also disbanded for a reason.


 
When did it disband or did it? And for what reason if it did?


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## Tracy Davis-Sullivan (May 10, 2010)

I found this series by Chris over at BorderWars to be interesting. He can be inflammatory...well, then he might fit right in here at WDF.

http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2012/02/bio-sensor-is-bad-science-the-failure-of-super-dog.html

http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2012/02/superdogs-are-made-not-born.html

http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2012/02/bio-sensor-is-bad-science-true-biosensor.html


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## julie allen (Dec 24, 2010)

Tracy I have read that as well researching the biosensor stuff. I didn't find it any more credible than the biosensor. 

Of course you can't breed shih tzus and use the super dog program and expect them to be ultimate detection dogs. If you start with good dogs, handle them, and use this program I don't see it causing any harm.

Even within the same litter genetics are not equal. Some pups turn out better than others. If raised the same some just have more than others. So how can anyone prove or disprove this theory?

I also havent heard if the program in the military was disbanded.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, I'm a firm believer that you can do a lot of this as a test in the way that the guide dog program performed them. You do not mask genetics with this to a good eye. I just saw this with a litter that was really conditioned from age 2 weeks. From what I can see with the litter that I looked at is IF you had done the same things with them in the same location that the breeder did, the same way---maybe they would pass. However, done differently, all weaknesses showed. Also, change locations and all benefits of conditioning went out the window. With this particular litter, I don't think they generalized any of it other than meeting people in their home environment. Otherwise, generally sound puppies adapting to different environments, etc. prepares them for things later in life.


T


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