# Agressive in public



## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

I need some advice, please.

Okay, Rade (7.5 month old GSD) is untrustworthy in public. He will growl, bark, and lunge (that is why I keep my distance from people). He gets corrected for lunging because that is unacceptable to me, but how do I stop him from growling and barking. I've read that you should correct "warnings" such as growling. If people are walking towards us he tenses up. I think its fear agression because he seems very stressed, he wants to lean against me, hackles up ect. I dont know how to procceed from here. Even at home, he tried to bite my grandmother (I had him on a long line with a prong), who has done nothing to him. 

He can be agressive towards humans and dogs, and I would like some advice on how to proceed from here.

Thank you in advance!!!


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## Lyn Chen (Jun 19, 2006)

I've heard that the prong can intensify aggression in these cases and that it's better to use a choke. I don't know enough to tell you how to correct this though, I'm sure other people here can help.


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## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

Thank you for the reply!! Yes, I will use a nylon choke chain, because the prong (in the little time that I've used it) has made him even more stressed and tense.


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## Patrick Murray (Mar 27, 2006)

Alegria, my recommendation is to find a good working-dog trainer. Don't get a "pet" trainer, get a working-dog trainer. 

By the way, where are you located?


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## Jessica Fry (Jan 4, 2007)

I second Lyn's and Patrick's advice: no prong and find a good working dog trainer.

What you're describing does sound like fear agression. I read in another thread that you bought the dog only recently. Do you know anything about it's history? (how many previous owners? Reasons for selling him? Etc.?)

And additionally, I'll just throw my 2cts in here, not as a working dog trainer but as someone who has experience with 'problem' dogs (all of my dogs have been rescues with behavioural issues). Also, this is assuming the dog is a pet and not a working dog prospect.

First key thing to remember is that the dog is a 'mirror' of you. If you get worked up, he will too. That's why the prong doesn't work: the dog is already agitated and is confirmed in that state of mind by a pain signal (albeit minimal) from the prong, causing him to go at it even harder. If you're worried he'll go off at people in the street, he will because he senses your tension. When correcting the dog for this type of behaviour, try to be as short and 'business-as-usual' as possible. Don't put any emotion into the correction at all, just say 'no' calmly, and lead him promptly away from whatever is setting him off. If possible, distract him with something he really likes (a toy or food?) before he has a chance to slam into the end of the lead. Praise him for paying attention to you instead of his surroundings.

Second key thing is: you are The Boss, and therefore you get to decide who's a threat and who's not. As of now, the dog is not viewing you as the 'leader of the pack' and he's making his own decisions (which is obviously freaking him out). This makes some sense in that he's only been with you a short time, but nevertheless he'll have to lose the notion. Try to improve bonding between the two of you by playing lots of games, taking him places (preferably without a lot of people present) and just doing fun stuff that keeps him focused on you. This'll help build his trust in you and help keep him focused on you in other situations too. Building his confidence in you as his leader, will lessen his overall insecurity in the long run.

Third key thing has to do with exposure to the things he finds threatening. I didn't start doing this exercise with my own (fear-agressive) dog until I had a reasonable connection with him and knew exactly how he responded to a given situation. You don't want anyone getting hurt trying this (I notice he tried to bite your grandmother...), so if you're not sure about it keep him on a (long) line. You'll need help from someone that is pertinently NOT afraid of the dog (very important, you don't want the dog receiving that signal at all). What you'll do, is have the person come within the vicinity of you and the dog and basically ignore the dog while having a conversation with you. Make sure the dog can't get close enough to bite the person, correct him with a quick 'no' and a tug on the line if he reacts agressively to the person, and praise him the moment he seems to lose interest (he sits down, starts looking around, or looks at you...). Keep the praise as short as the correction and then carry on the conversation. You don't want him all ADHD over getting praised but you want him calm at your feet while you're interacting with your person (mirror effect, you stay calm & he'll eventually follow your lead).

Hope this helps a little...? I'm generally better at doing stuff than at explaining it to others, so I hope it makes sense


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jessica Fry said:


> ... Third key thing has to do with exposure to the things he finds threatening. I didn't start doing this exercise with my own (fear-agressive) dog until I had a reasonable connection with him and knew exactly how he responded to a given situation. ...


Good suggestions, Jessica.

The o.p. received similar suggestions from everyone who replied on another forum, too (you went into better 
detail.  ), including postponing counter-conditioning until there was a good connection between the owner and the dog (and until the owner was confident herself).

One thing I added about increasing the dog's confidence in and bond with the owner was to start motivational obedience work in short, upbeat session.

I stupidly forgot to say "playing lots of games, taking him places (preferably without a lot of people present) and just doing fun stuff that keeps him focused on you."


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

And people say that there are no fear periods at 7 months. LOL

Just wait a bit. If you keep taking him all over **** and back, you could \make it worse.........or he could just be a shitter. 

If this is all of a sudden, and weird of him, then stop and regroup in a month or so.


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## Tim Martens (Mar 27, 2006)

i suppose it all depends on what you want to do with the dog. if you want a dog that you can at least somewhat trust in public, you've got a lot of work ahead. if you just want to keep him at home and not have him be aggressive toward a select group of people, a little less work. either way, i'd get him used to the muzzle straight away. have him wear it at home quite a bit when it's just you and him. take him on walks just around the neighborhood where human/dog encounters are a minimum, then work up to more encounters gradually. if you've tried correcting the shit out of him and it's only made things worse, then i would scrap that and just hope that exposure will cure it (expose him to enough people that he will learn that they're not threats). if the dog doesn't get to an acceptable level after a couple months, take him out back and introduce him to mr smith and mr wesson. there's too many decent dogs out there that need homes to be saddled with this type of problem....


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

To the O.P.,

I had a strong impression that this was a companion animal and not a working dog. Correct?


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## Jessica Fry (Jan 4, 2007)

Ok, I just read the other thread about this dog getting into an altercation with a friend of yours over a toy (sorry I missed that, I think I blew some synapses over whatshername's hippo's  ) & I'm wondering:

Was the dog as agressive as you describe in public before this encounter, or did it start/worsen after this?


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

Jessica Fry said:


> ... I think I blew some synapses over whatshername's hippo's


hehehe--don't feel left out Jessica: i think we all either blew some or gained some, depending on the physics involved =; :lol:


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## Ted White (May 2, 2006)

Good thread. Interesting Jeffs comment about a 7 month (potential) fear period. Are there more of these to watch out for?

Really great dialog Jessica! I read that with a lot of interest.


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## Alegria Cebreco (Jul 25, 2007)

I will be taking things slower with him, and earn his trust before throwing him out in the world. I expected too much, I guess. 

Tim- I do want a dog I can trust in public. He doesnt have to like people or dogs, I just want him indifferent to them, but still aware. I have been using a muzzle on him, and he seems to be just fine with it. 

Connie- I did get him to compete in some form of protection sport (I havent decided which yet). But I want him to be adaptable to the home (which he is very good at home, doesnt get into anything, follows me and very calm). 

Jessica- He was always iffy around people, with the occasional bark, or intense stare, but once we went out after that incident he started barking and growling at anyone who came towards us. 


Thanks for the replies!!


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## Lindsay Janes (Aug 9, 2007)

Patrick Murray said:


> Alegria, my recommendation is to find a good working-dog trainer. Don't get a "pet" trainer, get a working-dog trainer.
> 
> By the way, where are you located?


 I totally agree and find one who understands good about dogs and people aggression too.


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## Cadence Nakashima (Oct 6, 2007)

> I do want a dog I can trust in public. He doesnt have to like people or dogs, I just want him indifferent to them,


This was/is exactly the motto I use with Roxy, my 3 year old Rott/Dobe. She used to do the exact things you describe in your dog.

Lunging, snarling and snapping, but ONLY if they tried to engage in conversation with me, touch me, looked at me too long etc etc. She wouldn't react this way to EVERYONE, only the people who spoke to me or showed too much "interest" in me for Roxy's liking! A behaviourist, my obedience trainer and vet attributed it to bad breeding, genetic predisposition as well as extreme over protectiveness due to lack of socialization.

It was trully embarassing to walk anywhere in public with her. If someone said something about the weather, she would erupt in fierce snarling and lunging.

Working in obedience was the best thing we ever could've done. The first two months were spent in privates, teaching me how to handle and Roxy the basis, heeling, sit/down stays, proofing and distraction work. Until one day it all came together.

We drilled obedience commands into her head so well, that in the same situation, months before she would've erupted, I simply had to give her a command like sit/down stay, and she complied. No hestitation. I rewarded.

I think correcting for lunging, with a leash pop is okay, but correcting for growling or barking like you said would be disastrous, especially if this is more than a fear stage.

For the iffy times, where Roxy really didn't seem to like the person, I would devote my complete attention to her, with a piece of food, I would distract, count to three, than reward. Distract, count to ten reward etc etc.

My outlook on it is, Roxy will never be the happy friendly Golden that runs up to anyone and everyone looking for a pat. She despises being touched by anyone than our close knit family and while she's never bitten anyone, she shows no disregard in warning them to back off. It's not fear, it's not even really aggression, she just doesn't like new people. And it's not so hard to believe, I mean, there are people like that? That are reserved and prefer their close family members to large groups. Well that's my outlook on Roxy, at the same time I expect her to behave in public, and while I've taught her that if she's uncomfortable she can show it, ultimately I make the decisions when it comes to who's a threat and who isn't.


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