# Testing out the pups to see how spooky they are



## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Here's a vid of me trying to find out if there are any spooks in the litter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXN7rhs8zn4


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Quite a motley crew you have there Matt!


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

EXCELLENT reactions from the pups!

"For me" I wont continue looking at a litter if I see one spook in there.

Right or wrong that makes me think that there could very well be a "spooky" gene in the lines.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Looking good Matt. Thanks for sharing. Like the variation in their looks. I noticed the hairier bigger one. So chunky like mine was. Enjoy!!


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks peeps  i am finding it hard to find anything that spooks them, don't wanna go too wild that I create a spook also. It's a fine line I feel.


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## Gina Mezin (Mar 8, 2016)

Right. Don't go too far. 
As far as exposing them to stuff though, I'd do lots of riding around in wheelbarrows and in cars. This is the only area, I wish Kadi had done more of. Kibo is coming along with car rides, but is never thrilled about them. I don't think you can start to young with a sensitive breed. Just an idea.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Hey Matt have they been off your property yet?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Nicole Stark said:


> Hey Matt have they been off your property yet?



I think a strange place could possibly make a difference but those pups looked pretty solid.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Bob Scott said:


> I think a strange place could possibly make a difference but those pups looked pretty solid.


Certainly. You've said so yourself many times before.

One thing is evident from observing the puppies. Every single one of those puppies matter to him. One might think of course they do, but it's not that simple. It's something that clearly goes much deeper than that when you observe his interactions and relationships with them. In fact, after listening to him talk to them in several of the videos at one point I thought, my goodness this swearing M-fker would make quite a nice children's story teller. He has a bit of a Mrs. Doubtfire quality to him with those puppies. 

Ever watch a video of him and Sali? LOL \\/ He's rather nurturing; that is, in whatever way is most fitting.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

All the above!

I've always admired Matts interactions with his dogs.

I use the term "dog man" sparingly but Matt fits it to T.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

AW thanks peeps  I do try, lol.

Yes they have been off the property one even went for a day out at someone elses house, admittedly with Kath. As she was the most unsure we wanted to give her extra exposure. It actually worked to build her confidence which was cool. Like she came back and you could see her interactions with the other pups was different. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tulicwyLMoQ


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Matt Vandart said:


> AW thanks peeps  I do try, lol.
> 
> Yes they have been off the property one even went for a day out at someone elses house, admittedly with Kath. As she was the most unsure we wanted to give her extra exposure. It actually worked to build her confidence which was cool. *Like she came back and you could see her interactions with the other pups was different. *


Funny how that works isn't it? I know what you are describing. I have seen this occur with my adults as well. I think that separate time out is important no matter if it be with a puppy or an adult. But it's got to be more than just a walk about or ball toss, at least for me it's more involved and purposeful. For a puppy to have an outing like that, it's understandable that it would have the kind of influence it did on the pup.

Maybe my reply is entirely off the mark but when I read what you wrote I felt as if I could immediately relate to what you had described.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Nope that is probably exactly what I mean.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Often time the less bold pup can be one of lower position in the litter and that "days outing" can let it see it's own individuality when not "held back" by it's litter mates.

It can help create balance in a pup.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

When they are in a pack, it is totally different, take them out one by one to a strange place, this is when you can really see their personality.


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Pact I meant.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

glad to see the pups are getting out 

going from your home environment to visit a friends place like that might be more of a vacation than a spook test, but glad it helped the pup !


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Well we have an answer to that question. First pup left today and the new owners just messaged me to tell me how she's getting on.



> Yeah she's been good. She's very bold I'm very surprised how well she's taken everything even came to put my sheep in. No problem. She's been brilliant.


****ing pleased with that result 

Edit: that was in reply to my question "hows her nerve?"


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

The pup that left was going to a gamekeeper and it occurred to me I hadn't done a gunshot noise test so as I can't get a shot gun out and start blasting I found a test vid on the youtube.

Here is the result:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8UKr2Qde0c


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't think the dog "disturbing" the test was a bad thing because I like to start while the dog is being distracted.

When I tested my GSD Thunder to gunfire when he was a pup I did it while my son and my buddy's son were shooting trap at my buddy's farm. 


Thunder had a natural retrieve from the first day I tested the litter at 4 weeks.

I started tossing his puppy tug when we were about 75 yards away from the shooting and each short toss was towards the shooting. 

No reaction at all from Thunder so I eventually was standing 10-15 ft behind the shooters and Thunder was totally focused on me and the tug. 

He was 12 wks old at the time.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Cool, thanks Bob I'll log that in the living computer as when all the others have gone i'll have to test mine properly


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I was only ribbing Chucky anyway, he's funny and I think he understands people talk


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt Vandart said:


> I was only ribbing Chucky anyway, he's funny and I think he understands people talk


I think they figure out people talk lots quicker then we do dog talk.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Here is more answer to the question of not being with the litter. Yellow left today, below is a video of him meeting his new owners. Just got a message back after their 3 hour journey:



> He's doing awesome, he was a dream in the car and slept basically the whole way, and he's settled in quickly &#55357;&#56898;


Pink left yesterday and she was the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xazYgYbsus


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Matt Vandart said:


> Here's a vid of me trying to find out if there are any spooks in the litter:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXN7rhs8zn4


I enjoyed the video. The little black one that you are petting at the 2:00 minute mark I liked. He tended to remain with you and not bothered in the least with the stimulus. I personally gravitate towards pups that naturally give me their focus.. Very cool I will be curious to see them after a while.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

!!!Outstanding!!! 

That's what I want to see in a pup from day one regardless of breed.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks Bob and Brian 

Yellow and Pink I would say are two of the weakest in the litter, not saying they are weak by the way but in comparison with the rest. They have both gone to active pet homes.
With yellow's owners, (in the vid) she told me she wanted to do IPO. We have a mutual friend who does very well in IPO (using R+ force free methods interestingly) who did a mating with her bitch, the girl was going to have a pup out of that litter but the bitch didn't take. So she contacted me and I said I would possibly have a pup to suit her and low and behold there was one. Which was nice.
They are not massively experienced but as they have my IPO buddy to help them I was satisfied they would be ok with this pup. We'll just have to wait and see  I can't see him being any problems at all, he's a very steady pup.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Brian: I concur, that's green, she's a very nice bitch. Strangely no on wants her.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Why is that? 

I remember that pup from some of your earlier videos and I liked her as well. Maybe she's not, but she looked "different" from the other pups. "Looked" isn't the right word though… for whatever reason I don't always have words to explain my thoughts very well. In those cases, I know people either know what I am talking about or they won't. There's not much inbetween.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

You are correct Nicole 

Interesting looking back at this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThhDKtt3Kts


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

" We have a mutual friend who does very well in IPO (using R+ force free methods interestingly)"

Great to hear! 

When I started doing Schutzhund with Thunder almost 13 yrs ago, making that comment would damn near get us into fist fights with other trainers because all we got was constant "No ******* way" and "your full of $#!+" :lol: :lol:


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## Edward S Weiss (Aug 19, 2016)

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned testing a pack to a stimulus and observing reactions is often different than testing a pup that is without support of either littermates or a familiar setting.
I ran the Puppy Test at HWA( Hunting Working Airedale),and often significant differences are very dependant on both age and presence of previous exposure.
One test that really seems to separate the"hard" guys from the others
Is dropping an empty metal bucket unannounced on a concrete floor about sixfeet from the pup that is 7to 9 weeks old.
With the startle some are heading for the next county while others jump back a foot or so, then procede to investigate.
Time from startle to investigate is seconds to several minutesto never depending on the pup.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Edward S Weiss said:


> Earlier in the thread it was mentioned testing a pack to a stimulus and observing reactions is often different than testing a pup that is without support of either littermates or a familiar setting.
> I ran the Puppy Test at HWA( Hunting Working Airedale),and often significant differences are very dependant on both age and presence of previous exposure.
> One test that really seems to separate the"hard" guys from the others
> Is dropping an empty metal bucket unannounced on a concrete floor about sixfeet from the pup that is 7to 9 weeks old.
> ...


Id agree with you on most all of that Edward and those are great points to be sure. But if I might add something. The wash out rate is HIGH... selecting puppies is an art when it turns out good ...but in reality a lot of selected "litter pics" wash out or flatten out in all the phases of work. We just have to go with gut mixed in with some experience and hang on and hope for the best. I also like the metal jangling pan bit it can get the selecting process heading in the right direction.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I would predict that won't bother them at all tbh. 

Anyway, Green has found a Home with Kaths dad, he was going to have Blue boy but after what you guys said and what I thought myself I took both over, described their characters and let him decide. He chose Green, it's a good choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4S2Y3cPLZk


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Matt Vandart said:


> I would predict that won't bother them at all tbh.
> 
> Anyway, Green has found a Home with Kaths dad, he was going to have Blue boy but after what you guys said and what I thought myself I took both over, described their characters and let him decide. He chose Green, it's a good choice.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4S2Y3cPLZk


what a beautiful fine animal they will get the pleasure of keeping company with.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Yah, and I think it may be the perfect match tbh. I think that pup may be the winner in life out of the litter.

Also, thanks 


See the bucket test you describe, what is the pup to be doing when I chuck the bucket? I might give it a go tomorrow.
I have been doing a series of tests to find my two herding buddies with Terrsita's help


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I like the (ATTS) American Temperament Test Society has a pretty good test but the big issue I have is that it's always the same and can be trained (proofed) for. 

I've done it with a couple of dogs more for fun the anything else.

Back in the 80s I had the 2nd Norwich Terrier ever to pass it. 

My then 10 yr old daughter took our dog Grizzly through it. 

None of us had any real idea of what to expect. 

They aced it.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Here's my keeper, bucket test and all, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2HRkTaoZs&feature=youtu.be


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## Edward S Weiss (Aug 19, 2016)

Lookin' 😊 Good


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Matt, very cool as expected!

Seems that pup would rather fight (flirt pole) then chase something that dies on him when he gets to it. :lol: :wink: 

I really like the way you give the reward and keep moving instead of standing there and just offering it.

"For ME", I think that movement by you keeps the dog's prey up a bit and it's actually still working for it.

Do I detect a bit of a coated dog there?

My VERY heavily coated GSD Trooper's parents were both short coated and the 5 other pups in the litter also. Recessive pops it's head up! 

I been asked if he's a big boned Terv. :grin:


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks dudes 

Interesting observation Bob 

Unknown what the coat will be, seems like she might be a fluffy hoping for a Terv coat as it goes, more practical in this location  not looking forward to upkeep of said coat though tbh.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I knew Trooper would be coated but I didn't expect what I got.

He started out like your girl but now has what would be a beautiful Terv coat and a mane like a Lion.

As in Collies and Tervs the females don't get quite the mane the males do.

GSDs coats take a couple of yrs to fully develope and he didn't get final color till about 2 1/2 - 3 yrs old. 

Being outside 24/7 it is crazy thick in the winter.

This month will start some serious grooming and I'll literally get bushel baskets of under coat for the next month or two. 

I have no idea where it all comes from. :lol:


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

How old are they now Matt? What's up with the little black one?


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Which little black one  (there's two left) if you are talking about sir screams alot he's just an external drive leaker


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Matt Vandart said:


> Which little black one  (there's two left) if you are talking about sir screams alot he's just an external drive leaker



I have a screaming drive leaker here too ...need another for yours then you have a pair? LOL


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Lolz nah I'm good


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

Bob Scott said:


> This month will start some serious grooming and I'll literally get bushel baskets of under coat for the next month or two. :lol:


Find a wool spinner and get some yarn made. If you card & spin dog wool in with sheep's wool, it makes the yarn more durable (very warm too), so wears very longerl for socks, mitts, gloves.


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## Brian Anderson (Dec 2, 2010)

Meg O'Donovan said:


> Find a wool spinner and get some yarn made. If you card & spin dog wool in with sheep's wool, it makes the yarn more durable (very warm too), so wears very longerl for socks, mitts, gloves.


what a cool idea!


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## Meg O'Donovan (Aug 20, 2012)

More info on how dog wool compares to sheep wool: 
http://modernfarmer.com/2014/06/dressed-dog/ 
https://www.thedodo.com/these-people-are-wearing-sweat-453318420.html


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

No way, I was saying to Kath the other day we could make something out of Sali/Indie undercoats when they blow them out in the summer. 

Anyway, how she is in the real world 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpFIrctlRa4


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