# Club BS



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

How would you, or have you, dealt with BS when another club or decoy has discouraged people from working their dogs with you because of a personal vendetta with you? Suppose you've taken it on the chin for a year or so, but the party is actively trying to stir shit up?


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

I don't think it is so much about personal vendetta as opposed to bad training and avoiding it.


----------



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Faisal Khan said:


> I don't think it is so much about personal vendetta as opposed to bad training and avoiding it.


Riiight... 

I asked a theoretical question... and your answer is that if someone says training is bad, that means its bad?


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

That is up to you to decide. Good training has a track record and so does bad, pretty black and white.


----------



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Faisal Khan said:


> That is up to you to decide. Good training has a track record and so does bad, pretty black and white.


Well, we can agree on that... but the intent of the question wasn't for folks that have tasted flavor A, and flavor B, and decided for themselves... more for the folks that are going to taste flavor A and then a spokesman for B whispers "Don't taste A, is poisonous".


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

The answer is still the same, track record does not lie. It is out there in the open for anyone to see it if they choose to open their eyes up a lil


----------



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Faisal Khan said:


> The answer is still the same, track record does not lie. It is out there in the open for anyone to see it if they choose to open their eyes up a lil


OK... so to word it a different way, if one of my club members came to me and said, "I'm moving to TX and joining this guy Faisal Khan's club", and I said "No, that dude's training is crap, his helperwork is trash, and he'll kick your dog to boot", and they said "oh shit... not good... nevermind, I'll go elsewhere"... and they *never saw you work or what you produce* (key part here), and you caught wind of this after the fact... how would you respond?

Also, where abouts in TX are you anyway? I go to San Antonio fairly often for work.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

There are 4 -5 within 20 -25 miles of me in this area and they are pretty much off shoots of one another. Sometimes the off shoots are about personalities and sometimes they are about training methods. Probably no different then other clubs that are started other then ones started because of a lack of one.


----------



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

There isnt another club for a hundred miles of me... literally...


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Even if there is only one and you don't like the method or there are personality clashes you have to decide if it's worth the effort/aggravation/frustration.


----------



## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> Even if there is only one and you don't like the method or there are personality clashes you have to decide if it's worth the effort/aggravation/frustration.


oh nothing like that.


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Good to know!


----------



## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

How would you handle it?


----------



## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Doug Zaga said:


> How would you handle it?



If your speaking to me it's pretty much what I said. You have to decide if the training or personality conflicts are worth staying with that club.


----------



## Alice Bezemer (Aug 4, 2010)

Hunter Allred said:


> OK... so to word it a different way, if one of my club members came to me and said, "I'm moving to TX and joining this guy Faisal Khan's club", and I said "No, that dude's training is crap, his helperwork is trash, and he'll kick your dog to boot", and they said "oh shit... not good... nevermind, I'll go elsewhere"... and they *never saw you work or what you produce* (key part here), and you caught wind of this after the fact... how would you respond?
> 
> Also, where abouts in TX are you anyway? I go to San Antonio fairly often for work.


You shouldn't respond and give idiots what they want?

Faisal is right, your trackrecord speaks for itself. If people are willing enough to take just one persons bad spoken words for granted then you really don't want them to be part of your club or training to begin with since they are pretty much narrow minded.

People talk shit everywhere in the world and on every training club out there... Ignore it! At the end of the day it has no bearing on the person that you are but everything to say about the kind of person they are. Once someone gets to know you they will know you for who you are and what you do, those that don't make the effort to get to know you first and judge on other people's words? Good riddens to bad rubbish.

As for the frustration part of the equation? Thats a two way street, it might frustrate you to have someone like that in your club but there is nothing more frustrating for a person like that to see his badmouthing disproved when you are working your dog.... That is, if you are good at what you do.


----------



## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

Bob Scott said:


> If your speaking to me it's pretty much what I said. You have to decide if the training or personality conflicts are worth staying with that club.


No Bob. It was a question for Hunter.


----------



## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Hunter Allred said:


> How would you, or have you, dealt with BS when another club or decoy has discouraged people from working their dogs with you because of a personal vendetta with you? Suppose you've taken it on the chin for a year or so, but the party is actively trying to stir shit up?


I used to care, anymore I don't. You don't want to train with me, because someone who doesn't like me told you I suck, no problem, there are plenty of other places you can go train. And if there aren't, not my problem. Besides, I'm not interested in training with someone who can't do their own research and form their own opinion. You do want to train with me, well frankly since I train in a club, nobody gets paid, we all just help each other as part of the team, let's see what you bring to the table and we'll decide if you can train with us.

Now if I was training dogs for a living, I'd probably approach it from a different direction. I don't think it really helps to try to confront things head on, generally people assume you are the bad guy if you call someone else out on their BS. So let your work do the talking, both on and off the trial field. Posting well thought out training videos, trial results and trial videos, etc. Most people will at least take the time to google. If they are being told trainer A sucks by trainer B, but they can easily find solid results in trial and training videos from trainer A, they may form their own opinion. Or they may drink the kool-aid, at which point just move on.


----------



## Charles Corbitt (Oct 24, 2012)

I believe that most people that aren't newbie's, will go to the club and makeup their own mind. Best way to treat other people bad mouthing you or your club is the ignore it. To engage in, and respond to it only feeds it and distracts everyone involved from our and hopefully your goal of training dogs.
Me personally, if a club in my area were titling nice dogs in IPO and the Helper or TD was known to have a bad reputation, I would need to go see for myself to see who is turning out these dogs. The titles and dogs coming out of a club is what's important to me when looking at clubs.


----------



## Keith Jenkins (Jun 6, 2007)

I will concede I was guilty myself a few years back about listening to the BS crap about another trainer. I finally at the urging of another person decided to visit the club. I asked this person point blank about some of the shit I had heard and after his explanation I proceeded to apologize profusely and even joined the club for a year. Sometimes these things work themselves out.


----------



## Jennifer Andress (Sep 4, 2013)

I would just ignore it. I think in most cases, saying bad things about another trainer/group reflects worse on the person doing the trash talking than the trainer/group being disparaged.

This is true even when there's more than a little truth to the criticisms. A couple of times I've been warned off local trainers and I've always been initially more skeptical about the people doing the warnings than the trainers they were telling me not to see, because they were competitors so I figured the person doing the warning must not want to lose business. But when I went to see for myself, it turned out they were right, so welp.

Anyway, I think worst case is that people who hear negative gossip might look a little closer at whatever issue is the source of the gossip. But most people who take this stuff seriously are capable of reaching their own judgments, and getting sucked into dumb drama never helps anybody.


----------



## Faisal Khan (Apr 16, 2009)

Hunter Allred said:


> OK... so to word it a different way, if one of my club members came to me and said, "I'm moving to TX and joining this guy Faisal Khan's club", and I said "No, that dude's training is crap, his helperwork is trash, and he'll kick your dog to boot", and they said "oh shit... not good... nevermind, I'll go elsewhere"... and they *never saw you work or what you produce* (key part here), and you caught wind of this after the fact... how would you respond?
> 
> Also, where abouts in TX are you anyway? I go to San Antonio fairly often for work.


I'd thank you, we are very selective and make it known that this is not a social club. We are in the DFW area.


----------



## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

You definitely look at the source of the negativity and trash talking. 

As someone said the other week," if they constantly have to talk about how great they are, how great the dogs are, etc and are doing nothing, methinks they protest too much".

Usually, low level people that do that are trying to deflect the attention off of their attitude and actions....

Stay above it.


----------



## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

OR you can always visit the other club and see what the other guys problem is ? 
Don't go looking for a fight just ask for clarification. Most people that talk trash don't do it face to face.


----------



## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Sue DiCero said:


> You definitely look at the source of the negativity and trash talking.
> 
> As someone said the other week," if they constantly have to talk about how great they are, how great the dogs are, etc and are doing nothing, methinks they protest too much".
> 
> ...


Exactly. Low people and insecure jerks who need to pump up their own egos by talking trash about others. Consider the source, and as difficult as it can be, try to stay above the fray. Gossip always says a lot more about the person who spreads it than it does about the person who is being gossiped about.


----------



## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

call the person and talk to them directly. have it out, or meet up and work dogs and become friends LOL...

I ran into this alot when working PP. Mostly people that did not like the fact that I had to fix a bunch of dogs that they were screwing over, or getting thier people after they decided to work with someone else.

ultimately the people can tell who is better for them and thier dogs.


----------



## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Some people bad mouth a helper because he made their dog look bad - in other words the helper showed up the weakness of the dog.

There are helpers who have their own school - some of these make every dog look good. 

Some helpers have problems with strong dogs - you have to step up on control, once the dog checks the helper is easy bait.

There's nothing for it but to go look for yourself but, if inexperienced, take someone knowledgeable with you and maybe you will ask the helper to work your dog - maybe not. 

It's not always the quality of the helper that is an issue but the quality of the dog :lol:


----------



## Christopher Smith (Jun 20, 2008)

Hunter, these people are trying to get you to go out like a punk! You need to handle this! Slap that fool around a bit. If he's still talking trash...well...can't talk shit when he's knocked out. :twisted:


----------

