# Victoria Stilwell Bitten by a Police Dog and Blames the Handler.



## Mike D'Abruzzo (Oct 6, 2009)

Does anyone here know anything else about this first hand? I had my own bad experience with her I posted here: https://www.dogtraining.world/topic/victoria-stilwell-bit-bad-by-a-police-k9-dog/#post-6314

I personally cannot understand how any officer would cater to her after all the slander she has done on all trainers that need to teach responsibility to their dogs.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

since you brought up this subject.....

1. my first Q : was the bite a PSD handler error or the fault of Gloria for making a dumb ass move ? were you there to see it ?
- pure and simple : if it was handler error it was not her fault for getting bit, and if it was handler error - the handler is at fault...end of subject; no matter how much of an asshole she might be
2. If she is such an asshole why did you do TWO shows for her and why would you lower your training standards to take off an Ecollar to set up a fake situation as you said you did ?

if you work with dogs that bite, people will get bit, including handlers and trainers. as a K9 cop you know that. if one of your handlers loses control of their K9 they have to accept the consequences. i'm sure you know that too
- if you think her TV shows are misleading the public, make it known to the world as best you can, but i see no sense in bringing it up after she received a bite unless she was 100% responsible for getting bit. 
- so if she was, please make that crystal clear, because she now will probably do everything in her "star power" capacity to blame the handler and give all PSD's a bum rap ](*,)

anyone else out there have some video of this accident ? i'd like to see it


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i don't like to see someone get away with something just because they are rich and famous

the fact that she claims to be a 'renowned trainer' should make it harder for her to claim she was blameless
- regardless, a decent video would go a long way to clear it up one way or the other

and if the PD involved released a statement that would also add some credibility

horrible trainer or not, she's a victim until proven otherwise, so i wish for the PD's sake they can do something to salvage their rep before the lawyers take over


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

I have never seen her train a more complex behavior than sit tbh. It was all over my FB. Some people were quite elated by it, I have no opinion either way other than I hope she mends well. I think she may be a bit deluded, but most of these tv dog trainers are tbh. It's a real PR disaster either way as she is the bite prevention poster girl so handler error or not, it's not good. Accidents like this happen, everyone involved in bite work/dog training gets nailed at some point, I've got quite a few puncture scars in my arms/hands, you learn and move on, not cry and snivel all over social media. That's one thing i'll say for CM he doesn't do that. Sounds like hers was pretty bad though and probably a very bad experience for her psychologically. Never good when people get hurt.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

She is the biggest clueless danger to mainstream dog training since she has a huge audience to share her ineptitude with.


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Interesting. I have no idea who you guys are talking about. But if I did I wouldn't have my dogs around her.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

good plan I say


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Conveniently I appear to live under a rock. I don't have a FB account, my cell usage is primarily to a business connected phone, I'd rather live off the land than in the city, and don't find a lot of satisfaction to be derived from material possessions - save for a few items. 

Nevertheless, it is a curious topic here. Regardless of who is at fault, you're on point in saying that it's never good when someone gets hurt. No matter the reason.


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## shelle fenton (Sep 24, 2015)

Victoria Stockwell.
Well she's probably 30yrs, long dark brunette, good looking, wears for her show: always black riding jodpur style trousers, with riding boots , with bright red lipstick, hair tied back, all over 'dominatrix' impression. 
I think she is attempting to conjure an "aura" of control. Publicity photo's often show her holding a crop. Image is being portrayed here. Not sure why a crop? But it looks like it fits the image, rather than her task. 

Then there are the hapless 'problem' dog owners. Typical issue: dog growls at wife when she tries to move it off the couch. Wife backs off and sits in armchair. So some pretty clueless dog people. 
The dogs are often pre child surrogate babies for the young couple. Anthropomorphized rude dogs basically. Not exactly problem dogs for dog savvy pet owners. But ARE a problem and not nice to live with because of what home they landed in. 

It a typical tv dog trainer show. Its aimed at audiences who know no different. Its dog training without use of reading dogs body language.

So, an ignorant person, got bitten by a dog, trained in bite work. Not sure who's to blame, suspect it is both Stockwell and handler error. I would expect a handler to step in before a bite occurs. That it did, indicates signals missed, opportunities missed, consequences earned.

I am pretty sure, that IF a dog owner, asked me to handle their dog, in bite work. I would step up to the plate and state: "I am not capable of handling your dog". ie. i know my limitations. Knowing them, and ensuring for safety, i do not step outside of my capabilities right now is MY responsibility. I could argue that it is also in some way, the trainers responsibility to not allow me to. But mainly my responsibility. So it her fault. 
I would want to see the dog in action, a lot of times, before i felt i could read the dog, get a sense of what i might try if.... etc.

Same as a mate offerring me, a country horse hacker, a ride on her stallion. Know your limits. or face toe consequences.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Mike D'Abruzzo said:


> Does anyone here know anything else about this first hand? I had my own bad experience with her I posted here: https://www.dogtraining.world/topic/victoria-stilwell-bit-bad-by-a-police-k9-dog/#post-6314
> 
> I personally cannot understand how any officer would cater to her after all the slander she has done on all trainers that need to teach responsibility to their dogs.


Why participate in her lie? Why agree to turn the dog loose without the control that you felt made him safest in that scenario? Same with the current situation. A handler knows or should know whether his dog has the capability of redirecting in that scenario. Why allow her to be near him when he is stimulated? No one in working dogs is willing to examine that this dog is not clear if he will redirect on an innocent bystander. Its been merely working dog vs. pet dog trainer and ahaaaaaaa, she got bit. You have to protect your dog. The handler should have never allowed her within the vicinity of the dog, given the risks.

T


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Why participate in her lie? Why agree to turn the dog loose without the control that you felt made him safest in that scenario? T


Hello T and Happy Friday. Been a while eh?

Not answering for him, but maybe just a little. Me thinks it was that riding crop. A little of that vicarious living might be part of the motivation. Dominate the dominator.

Welcome back to my usual "orbit" \\/.


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## Mark Sheplak (Oct 28, 2011)

Here is her side to all of this, https://positively.com/victorias-blog/my-police-dog-dog-bite-accident/

She is a wee bit too arrogant regarding her take "only purely positive" training methods protection dogs.

Not that I wish that sort of thing on anyone, but I imagine that she was probably happy that the officer used force to remove the dog from her leg.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Mark Sheplak said:


> Here is her side to all of this, https://positively.com/victorias-blog/my-police-dog-dog-bite-accident/
> 
> She is a wee bit too arrogant regarding her take "only purely positive" training methods protection dogs.
> 
> Not that I wish that sort of thing on anyone, but I imagine that she was probably happy that the officer used force to remove the dog from her leg.



If this is what happened, she has a right to be pissed. The backlash is that she is bashing a cop which is why we now get the press statement. Based on what's been written you would assume it was the dog loading in bitework and he redirects. That's how its characterized mincing words. that's BS. Dog is getting into a helicopter and decides to nail her because he is noise stimulated. Handler should know and be responsible for his dog. 

What's up Nicole. Good to be back. \\/

T


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Hey T! Missed you a bunch!

If it took the evil, UK dominatrix that doesn't know how to correct a dog to get you back on I say HOOORAY for that scrawny broad! :grin: :grin: :wink:


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> Hey T! Missed you a bunch!
> 
> If it took the evil, UK dominatrix that doesn't know how to correct a dog to get you back on I say HOOORAY for that scrawny broad! :grin: :grin: :wink:


Hi Bob and DITTO!!! Blame Matt Vandart. I asked if there was a video of the dominatrix and Matt linked me to the thread. Suckered me right in. :roll:


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't know if her show is even still on but it only took me watching one to see through her bs.

If she put on 10 lbs I may have watched it a couple more time but that's a HUGE maybe. :lol:


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## Nicole Stark (Jul 22, 2009)

I read the first two or three sentences of the link Mark posted and thought, what a narcissist. Initially, I was curious and mildly amused by all this… well, whatever several WDF members seemed to know something about that was completely foreign to me. But, **** that. Right or wrong, fault or blame, I'm not giving this woman nor her situation any more of my time.


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## Mike D'Abruzzo (Oct 6, 2009)

rick smith said:


> 2. If she is such an asshole why did you do TWO shows for her and why would you lower your training standards to take off an Ecollar to set up a fake situation as you said you did ?


We didn't lower our training standards, we exchanged the ecollar for a prong (which she didn't want either), but we said we wouldnt do the shot without the dog knowing we had ability to correct, That was a point of my post since some of the officers that are working with her will not show training collars in their shoots with her.

Most of us discovering she was an asshole was after the shoot, but that is a long story that is explained in the post.

I was not present at the event where she took the bite. She since posted and according to her account I would say handler error certainly played a part, but still no excuse to post publicly and trash the handler.

In my case I was hired to help her with an aggression case on the show and at the time she was MORE than greatful, but after her ignorant followers saw a prong collar on the show she publicly put down our company for HELPING.. I didnt make a big stink about it, but after i saw she bashed a handler, when she be grateful that they are even allowing her to exploit them for her TV show I couldnt keep my mouth shut about my experience.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

the show only lasted one season here
nothing out of the ordinary pet problems
dressed in black and drove a black vette...yada yada
- how to potty train 
- how to stop growling at the food bowl
- how to make a dog sit and beg for food rather than run out the door
- always found some reason to bad mouth "shock collars" during every show
99.99% purely positive
......very boring....who cares ](*,)

don't do FB either and was surprised to hear she had anything to do with PSD....was told she was going to film some ride alongs with K9 LEOS

but i object to shooting the messenger even if the messenger deserves to be shot
- and victims are victims even if they are assholes or angels

can't always tell who is at fault with poor videos, but without ANY AT ALL it is useless to lay blame and criticise

so this will be nothing more than a pure speculation and bitch thread without seeing what actually happened

my original post stands..no sense in repeating

just ROYALLY PISSED this was even brought up the way it was which is why i jumped on it ](*,)](*,)](*,)

and more pissed that people rant about what an asshole she is and connect it to this bite rather than care about why the bite happened

my wild ass guess is that it had NOTHING to do with Ecollar work at all


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

tried to respond Mike, but now some of my posts are now being "moderated" before they go through the WDF censors ](*,) ](*,)

that pisses me off to say the least since i've posted a few thousand times before and have tried my best to provide on topic subjective posts even if they are detailed and long  
...and not always what people want to read 

where you been T ????


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

i don't need to know the details of this event to make the following statement

not always, but for the most part, mwd's are muzzled in a helo
for a TRAINING mission, when CIVILIAN passengers are aboard, i am SURE it would be muzzled
...safety is not a word. it should be a rule to live and train by

the relevance for a pet owner might be to learn the advantages of a muzzle as a training aid and not simply as a restraint device for vet visits or protection training
- i train ALL my customers about the use of muzzles as a training tool.
- until the dog will eat, drink and snooze in a muzzle it gets more muzzle conditioning


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Welcome back T.\\/

Stillwell is a soup bone. Dog probly thought she was a walking ham.:twisted:


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## Anthony Arrants (Jun 5, 2015)

Talk shit, get bit? 

Dunno, but she has created a culture of all positive crusaders who sing the praises of her "science-based methods".

So technically, any trainer uses science based methods because they lean towards one of the four quadrants and then the better trainers employ all four in the course of a dog's life. 

At least that's my two cents. 

It's like anything other than shoving food down your dogs throat and you beat puppies and cook them with the ecollar.


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## Brian McQuain (Oct 21, 2009)

Anthony Arrants said:


> ...you beat puppies and cook them with the ecollar.


Is there any other way? 

I kid, I kid.


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

rick smith said:


> i don't need to know the details of this event to make the following statement
> 
> not always, but for the most part, mwd's are muzzled in a helo
> for a TRAINING mission, when CIVILIAN passengers are aboard, i am SURE it would be muzzled
> ...


Good advices here


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

My favorite episode of COPS is one where the guy sends his dog down a hill to apprehend the suspect, and the dog comes back up the hill and apprehends the officer standing by the handler 

oops


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> My favorite episode of COPS is one where the guy sends his dog down a hill to apprehend the suspect, and the dog comes back up the hill and apprehends the officer standing by the handler
> 
> oops


 Never saw that one. Thought I'd seen them all.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Howard Knauf said:


> Never saw that one. Thought I'd seen them all.


ill try to find it..it was rather humorous, of course since it was not me or anyone I know


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Did you see the one when the K9 handler send the dog after a suspect that ran into the dead end alley, then he ran back out and right at that time the dog make the turn into the alley and got freak out because probably never seen a guy running at him before and didn't engaged, the K9 handler did a Bruce Lee kick on the suspect and fell on the ground broken his wrist and still the dog just stand there and bark and won't engaged when both of them were on the ground?


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## Misty Wegner (May 22, 2015)

I saw that one! Felt really bad for the officer and was glad the dog didn't engage on him as the dog was close to him... If you work with animals or around them, accidents can and will happen... Neither animal nor human are perfect, we train for the worst and hope for the best..


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## Khoi Pham (Apr 17, 2006)

Yes train for the worst and hope for the best but I don't think they train that way, I have a friend that works with many local PD and none of them trained in defensive bite, all prey run away bites or passive, this is a prime example that you need to train for both, who would have thought that a suspect would charge a dog but in this case he did, same way when that guy jumped the fence at the white house and the secret service sent a Mal out and the guy stood his ground and kick the dog and the dog wouldn't engage and had to be called back.


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## Danielle Hunt (Jan 7, 2016)

Anthony Arrants said:


> Dunno, but she has created a culture of all positive crusaders who sing the praises of her "science-based methods".
> 
> So technically, any trainer uses science based methods because they lean towards one of the four quadrants and then the better trainers employ all four in the course of a dog's life.
> 
> At least that's my two cents.


That's precisely what I was thinking! It really bothers me when people blindly throw around the term "science-based" without even thinking about the meaning behind their words. If they used their brains they'd realize that it's ALL science based. The difference is whether or not you know and understand the science behind the theory in order to successfully implement your training techniques. And the blind followers don't. Bleh... I get too worked up over this stuff...


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Khoi Pham said:


> Did you see the one when the K9 handler send the dog after a suspect that ran into the dead end alley, then he ran back out and right at that time the dog make the turn into the alley and got freak out because probably never seen a guy running at him before and didn't engaged, the K9 handler did a Bruce Lee kick on the suspect and fell on the ground broken his wrist and still the dog just stand there and bark and won't engaged when both of them were on the ground?


 I did. Not good. We train with decoys to attack the dog with all manner of weird shit to include fire extinguishers and air hoses. Last night we had the decoy push rolling chairs at the dog during the decoy attack. No problem with any of the dogs thankfully. Most of the time it's just a matter of getting the dog experienced to such things. It's not that the dog is afraid or unfit, it's usually just a matter of exposure.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

That one was on K9 Cops. 

It follows the K9 work in area of Minneapolis/ St Paul Minnesota.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Bob Scott said:


> That one was on K9 Cops.
> 
> It follows the K9 work in area of Minneapolis/ St Paul Minnesota.



Yes it was. One of our members here was in an episode or two.


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Knauf said:


> Yes it was. One of our members here was in an episode or two.



Ever since watching that series with my grandkids they always ask me "Do you know that one Pop?" each and every time a K9 unit is seen on a TV show. ](*,)

I shoulda never mentioned it to them. :lol:


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