# Front Dew Claws Removed 4 Bitework



## Dawn Buffunarda (Aug 2, 2008)

*I have noticed that during bitework some GDS's that still have front dew claws get them ripped and injured. I have been told different things by different people about this. *

*SchH trainers ( some ) say that a GSD that has front dew claws removed are disqulifed for having them removed.:?: *


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

It is my understanding that you shouldn't remove a GSD's front dew claws. Don't know whether it DQ's the dog, but I am not a fan of altering nature unless medically necessary. It certainly doesn't seem to be a common enough problem for me to be concerned about.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

Rear dewclaws are a disqualification, but front ones are not. Personally, I wouldn't remove front ones because they are actually used by the dog (like thumbs), whereas rear ones just hang there and don't seem to serve any purpose, even in the breeds that are required to have them left on.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

I was always told they (dew claws) were left over from the days they climbed trees. I have absolutely no data to support that, it is just was I was always told.

DFrost


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

The rear ones (if any) are removed when the pups are very small, but the front ones are always left on GSDs. I'm trying to think of when I have ever heard of a GSDs front leg dew claws getting damaged during schutzhund. How would a this accident happen during bitework?


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

a friends Dutchie tore a front one off one night going over obsticals for bites.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Yikes, did she rip it on a jump? Other than that, have you seen this kind of injury much? Sounds like kind of a freak accident. I would think it happens with more frequency on those breeds with floppy dew claws. (knocking wood as I post this).


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

It was on a high wooden fixed wall around some horseshoe pits.

I think he was a little low diving over and caught it. Was just hanging by some skin and fur so my friend just pulled it off, a little vet wrap and back to training.


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## susan tuck (Mar 28, 2006)

Merely a flesh wound!!


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## Kyle Sprag (Jan 10, 2008)

susan tuck said:


> Merely a flesh wound!!


Yeh, it didn't seem to bother the dog at all.

Another time the poor guy snagged his pee pee on the same wall, minor blood and missing fur was involved, OUCH! He was a tough dog!


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Dogs that use their dewclaws can get really ripped up in sports like flyball, agility (especially on carpet) and disc. Either skidboots or wraps work, but I don't know if that is allowed in SchH. I've never seen it done.


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

If they are kept trimmed/filed down, is it really that big a deal?


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I think it is. What I've seen is dogs that lean hard into a turn to maintain their balance at speed. It's not the claw/nail that's affected but the tissue that connects the claw to the dog's leg.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

Kristen Cabe said:


> If they are kept trimmed/filed down, is it really that big a deal?


Mine tore one off, and I Dremel the bejeezus out of his nails on a regular basis.

In fact, I still don't know how exactly it happened. Nothing overt, certainly.

The good news is that it never grew back.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Steven Lepic said:


> Mine tore one off, and I Dremel the bejeezus out of his nails on a regular basis.
> 
> In fact, I still don't know how exactly it happened. Nothing overt, certainly.
> 
> The good news is that it never grew back.


Isn't tearing one off a big bleeder, too?

I remember reading that (I think)....


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

> The good news is that it never grew back.


Why is it that dews don't regenerate, but the other claws/nails do?


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

The nail must have got caught, and then fractured right at the very base. It hung on for a while...seemingly secure, then one day it fell off on it's own. No signficant bleeding or anything.

I'm sure it would have grown back under less decisive circumstances. Lately, though, I think I feel just a hint of a tiny sliver of nail growing back, actually.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Anne Vaini said:


> Why is it that dews don't regenerate, but the other claws/nails do?


If it breaks the nail bed off it doesn't come back, toes or dews.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Briards must have intact rear dew claws (double). There is a nice little story about them being useful for the dog to walk over the backs of the sheep herds.

Mine ripped the front dew claw off whilst careering round a field. He had the habit of turning very low. He had no trouble in schutzdienst. It bled quite a bit and we took him to the vet who cleaned and tidied it up. It happened 2 or three times on the same foreleg but I disinfected it and it always grew again. I kept them as short as possible which helped.

The rear dew claws never caused any trouble apart from the fact that they had to be kept short as they used to grow into the flesh again.


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## Matthew Grubb (Nov 16, 2007)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Isn't tearing one off a big bleeder, too?


 
We had a bar fight that spilled out into the parking lot last winter… my boy spent the first half of the incident snarling and scratching the window guard in the car, trying to get out. When I was finally able to get him out of the car, there was blood EVERYWHERE!!! He was covered in it… it was dripping from the roof…. I thought someone shot or stabbed him through the screen. I had him out, checking head to tail and there’s nothing wrong… then I see he ripped one of his front dew claw nails off. This happened two more times.

Needless to say… when he went in for his ear hematoma surgery I had them remove both front dew claws. His performance has never suffered.


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## Rachel R Phelan (May 26, 2008)

We have a Dutchie (pup) and were told that removal of the front dew claws was an option, but that the Dutchies will actually use their feet like hands to pull down the decoys, and the dew claws are a little added pressure. See the picture below - I am taking the bite, notice how she is using her feet to pull me down. At one point she had her feet all the way around my leg. (btw this is our pup's mom, she had 10 pups 4 weeks prior to this picture.) 

http://phelans.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/rachel-and-rush-favorite.jpg


Have a great day!


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## marta wade (Apr 17, 2008)

My Dutchie tears his on a semi regular basis. Well he has torn them more than once. Once required the vet to go ahead and snip the nail part that was hanging. He usually tears the nail during bitework sometimes just palying with me! One is just about gone and the other is very short. I think it is a good option to remove when young or as someone mentioned when under for something go ahead and remove if the dog tends to tear. I understand they may use them but tearing them must be painful although your not gonna see the pain when in drive. My guy still wants to bite/play but later it is definately tender. He has not been under for anything so I have not had them done to prevent further injuries but I would definately consider doing so.
Marta


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

I'm not sure a dog needs to be under for the operation. It's really minor (apparently some dogs do it for fun.  ) Ask your vet about using a nerve block (like for declawing a cat) or about using a sedative plus painkiller.


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## Dawn Buffunarda (Aug 2, 2008)

*Hi All,*

*Since my last post I have learned some new things about bitework & dew claws.*

*The SchH people I have spoken with all say if the front dew claws on a GSD have been removed the dog will be disqualified.*

*SchH folks/ Breeders have recently told me that if a GSD working dog is born with back dew claws it is considered a defect in the dog?*
*Has anyone else heard this??*
*Thanks,*


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## Kristen Cabe (Mar 27, 2006)

They are right, if you go by the literal translation of 'defect', but that goes for GSDs of _any _bloodline. 



> Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - de·fect [n. *dee*-fekt, di-*fekt*; v. di-*fekt*]
> a shortcoming, fault, or imperfection


According to the (AKC) breed standard (http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shepherd_dog/), rear dewclaws _should_ be removed. Also according to that standard, it is permissible to take the front ones off, but it does state that they are normally left on. 

There is nothing at all about dewclaws in the SV standard. (http://www.germanshepherddog.com/regulations/breed_standard.htm)


So yes, I would say that rear dewclaws are a 'defect,' since the breed standard doesn't call for them, but I wouldn't consider them a _major_ fault. Like I said, one of Deja's puppies had rear dewclaws. I just had the vet snip them off and that was that. To my knowledge, that's what every GSD breeder does.


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