# D'Only - Bitework 02/21/10 part 2



## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBrtPcuYiw4&feature=autofb

A little blind and some escort and then a few faces with accessories.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

He looks great! Are you going to trial with him this year? Or get a full solid 3 program into him first?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> He looks great! Are you going to trial with him this year? Or get a full solid 3 program into him first?


Thanks. Hey, I hope to do so. I need to get all the program first and for him to know everything 100%. 

I think it will work better for me and him staying a team that way. I worry about trialing him too soon and him realizing even for a minute that he could do what he wants and not what I'm asking. [-o<


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Woohoo for the Master progeny - that boy is looking nice


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Woohoo for the Master progeny - that boy is looking nice


Hey and now we are working on the next generation. You and Geoff with the Juice litter already realized. And I bred D'Only with Cadence just about a week back so time will tell on those. I doubled up on Zodt on my breeding so I can't wait to see what comes of it. You see the Juice-pups yet?


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I wish I knew more about ring, because I see that and think well..it's a dog with its owner that has hold of the line connected to a collar..

The dog looks like he's game, I just don't understand if it's a control thing or what ??


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## Tamara Villagomez (Nov 28, 2009)

I love watching the videos of him he's a really nice dog!


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Debbie Skinner said:


> You see the Juice-pups yet?


Not yet! Going up there in a couple of weeks. They'll be 7 weeks old at that point. I have to pick out and bring back a pup for a teammate and good friend of mine too. And then I get to babysit the pup for a couple of days. Can't wait!


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I wish I knew more about ring, because I see that and think well..it's a dog with its owner that has hold of the line connected to a collar..
> 
> The dog looks like he's game, I just don't understand if it's a control thing or what ??



Yes, I train with a collar and leash and electric. He's got a nylon choke for guiding and correcting and the dogtra for the same. He's 14 months old and learning the blinds and escort and the basket as well as other exercises. 

I don't understand your post and questions? Please explain better.

What tools do you use to train with?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Tamara Villagomez said:


> I love watching the videos of him he's a really nice dog!


Thanks.


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

great dog, he looks like lots of fun cant wait till get my Juice / sasha baby and have some fun too


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I wish I knew more about ring, because I see that and think well..it's a dog with its owner that has hold of the line connected to a collar..
> 
> The dog looks like he's game, I just don't understand if it's a control thing or what ??


Gerry you gotta get out of the garage and over to Lybbert's place. You have a Lvl 2 certified decoy basically in your backyard you could be working it right now bro!


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Geoff Empey said:


> Gerry you gotta get out of the garage and over to Lybbert's place. You have a Lvl 2 certified decoy basically in your backyard you could be working it right now bro!


Did you understand the question he is asking? I think he needs to rephrase it for me. I'm missing something. :-o


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Did you understand the question he is asking? I think he needs to rephrase it for me. I'm missing something. :-o


It's ok he is from Alberta where men are men and the sheep are nervous. :---)


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Did you understand the question he is asking? I think he needs to rephrase it for me. I'm missing something. :-o


Sorry, when it comes to typing I'm no Lou Castle.

I was just curious about your husband doing the decoy work with the dog, I'm guessing the dog never sees him in a trial situation ??

It's all good, nice dog and everything..was just wondering about the decoy stuff.


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Sorry, when it comes to typing I'm no Lou Castle.
> 
> I was just curious about your husband doing the decoy work with the dog, I'm guessing the dog never sees him in a trial situation ??
> 
> It's all good, nice dog and everything..was just wondering about the decoy stuff.



Yes, you are correct that Ron is his main training decoy. No, my dog and my friends that train with us won't likely see Ron in a trial situation. I do work D'Only on another decoy sometimes doing the exercises he knows. Actually this morning we will be training with Daryl Young (former MR decoy) to train Vayrha. He's driving out from Los Angeles (about 2 1/2 hours away). I'll try to have someone video him on a "change of decoys" today.

With all my young dogs/puppies, I do the handling and Ron works them to teach them everything. If we had another good training decoy near us we could do things slightly different, but I'd still teach my young dog on "his" training decoy first. We've always done it this way. I do not have others train and handle my young dogs either (pass the leash to someone else to teach the young dog obedience). 

Dexter was trained like this too. I think the first bite he had on someone else was when we went to watch a trial and he was around 10 months old and it was just a short face attack on the decoy to show him another decoy. It was one of the trial decoys. If the dog is good, he has no problem transitioning to other decoys imo. Normally I would have him slightly more advanced in his training at 15 months old, but I was out of commission for 3 months with the 5 broken ribs and punctured lung (Sept-Dec) when D'Only was 10-12 months old. I am happy with his progress thus far considering this setback. 

I doubt Ron is going to re-certify to do any FR trials...maybe he'll recert for MR as it's possible to be "older" and decoy effectively as there are no fast esquives or escapes.

Are you thinking there could be a conflict with a family member decoying the dog or that a dog trained as a pup on one decoy for several months would then not transition to another decoy and be confident on a "strange" decoy?

Probably ideally everyone would have access to a good training club at a reasonable distance from their homes...I WISH! We are members of Extreme Ring Club, but it is 1 1/2 hours drive into the city (Orange County)... 

I also as the handler train a lot of the concepts myself with my young dogs: heeling backwards, putting feet in object, escort on me (leaning and between the legs and in front), out and guard.. All with a tug reward. I do this as Ron works long hours away from home so I do most of the obedience alone and then incorporate it into the bitework exercises. I've found it to be helpful as then the dog already knows parts of the Defense, Object, Guard, Escort..etc. 

There are a bunch of different ways to get to the same place in Ring or Schutzhund..or other sport or work. 

Do you have suggestions for me? I am open to hearing ideas and critiques and I love to hear different methods.


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## Konnie Hein (Jun 14, 2006)

Debbie Skinner said:


> With all my young dogs/puppies, I do the handling and Ron works them to teach them everything. If we had another good training decoy near us we could do things slightly different, but I'd still teach my young dog on "his" training decoy first. We've always done it this way. I do not have others train and handle my young dogs either (pass the leash to someone else to teach the young dog obedience).


Isn't this pretty much the way most folks do it (stick with one training decoy for foundation training)? I imagine it would be tough to stick with a consistent, step-by-step training plan for a dog if there was constant switching from decoy to decoy or handler to handler?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

Konnie Hein said:


> Isn't this pretty much the way most folks do it (stick with one training decoy for foundation training)? I imagine it would be tough to stick with a consistent, step-by-step training plan for a dog if there was constant switching from decoy to decoy or handler to handler?


That's how I was taught in the 1990s French Ring by trainers that visited from France and when I traveled there. 

A lot of people here seem to go to a lot of seminars and switch decoys a ton with their young dogs though.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Debbie Skinner said:


> That's how I was taught in the 1990s French Ring by trainers that visited from France and when I traveled there.
> 
> A lot of people here seem to go to a lot of seminars and switch decoys a ton with their young dogs though.


The key is actually having a training decoy that knows what he is doing. In north america we are behind the 8 ball so much with that. That's why people are driven to go to utilize seminar decoys with young dogs as for what it is worth that is probably all these young dogs and handlers have for the most part. 

With Ron's experience it is IMHO probably the best thing for your dogs is to keep them on him. My experience is showing me that it is best to have one good training decoy with oodles of experience like Ron etc (even though that is not always possible) and then having someone else or 2 as a 'test' decoy the weeks before trial. 

Letting inexperienced dogs bite on inexperienced decoys just for the sake of letting the dog bite IMHO does way more harm to foundation training than good. 

The rules for training IMHO both green decoys and green decoys is, experienced dog = inexperienced decoy. Then total flip side for a green dog as then it is best to have a experienced decoy who knows how to work with the young dog.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Debbie Skinner said:


> Do you have suggestions for me? I am open to hearing ideas and critiques and I love to hear different methods.


Me giving you suggestions about training, now that's funny.

I'm just curious about how you do things and why.


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## chris haynie (Sep 15, 2009)

cool video. 

are you using prusik cord for the correction lead? it looks small , but must be strong. does it have a handle or knot on it or is it just loose at the end?


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## Debbie Skinner (Sep 11, 2008)

chris haynie said:


> cool video.
> 
> are you using prusik cord for the correction lead? it looks small , but must be strong. does it have a handle or knot on it or is it just loose at the end?


Just saw your question. I'm using a piece of cord from a broken show martingale tied to a nylon show choke. Yes, the cord is very strong, but difficult on the hands so I don't usually use it for training anything new. There is no loop in the end, but there are knots in several places up the cord to make it easier to grip.


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