# Need Advice



## Jeremy Pickett (Jan 8, 2010)

Ok here's my dilemma, I have a 5 month old GSD.... I'm wanting to do Schutzhund with her but I'm starting to doubt whether or not she's gonna be good for it or not. She's a great dog and listens great, learns things freakishly fast but the issue I'm having is getting her to show some type of aggression so to speak. What I mean is if you try to slap box or wrestle with her she just wants to lay on her back and get rubbed. My other 2 GSD's will growl, bark, and wrestle and play back with you but not her..... all she wants is love. Don't get me wrong I love her loyalty to me and love that she shows me affection and whether she turns out for Shutzhund or not she has a forever home with me. Now she does have a prey drive.... she will chase a ball, play tug of war with me and with my other GSD's, and will get very protective over "her" bone towards my other GSD's..... not fight them over it but will quickly let them know it's hers and they need to leave it alone. I just wish I could get her more pushy I guess when it comes to me trying to rough house a lil with her. She's very intelligent and will track a person down in a heartbeat but I'm worried about the protection and sleeve work in her future. Any advise??


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

it's a puppy, you're being a dumb owner. 

Quit with the OB. Play fetch and tug. Don't leave toys laying around the house, you control the toys. 
Quit slapping the puppy around and trying to get aggression out of it. Do you know how many times I have tried to get my dog to show me aggression? Zero, as in NEVER, it's dumb so don't do it.

Whatever you do, make sure you only do positive stuff with her. Make her think you are the only thing that matters in the world.

And if you're a Troll, I'm gonna sic Carol Boche on you.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Sounds like a young dog. There's really no aggression in Sch, it's just a sleeve, that's why they don't need suits. It's strictly the forearm. As long as the dog will play tug it'll probably do okay in Sch. Be patient and enjoy your dog.


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## jack van strien (Apr 9, 2009)

Just let your dog develop, not every dog behaves the same.If it is a social happy outgoing dog there is no problem at all.

Al,
Saying there is no aggression in Schutzhund is like saying there is no aggression in boxing,it is strictly above the waist.It depends of the participants,and it has a lot to do with targeting.


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## Julie Ann Alvarez (Aug 4, 2007)

jack van strien said:


> Just let your dog develop, not every dog behaves the same.If it is a social happy outgoing dog there is no problem at all.
> 
> Al,
> Saying there is no aggression in Schutzhund is like saying there is no aggression in boxing,it is strictly above the waist.It depends of the participants,and it has a lot to do with targeting.



Agreed! 100% 

Julie


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Absolutely normal for a puppy/young dog in training. 
At home everything is familiar. The pup knows every blade of grass and ever corner in your yard and he's probably familiar with the "normal" distractions presented there. Why shouldn't he pay attention to you?!
The club field has however many different dog smells, folks to view, sounds to listen to.
I'm a believer in, If a (sound) young dog or pup understand things at home they will eventually put it together in places outside the home.
It's nothing more then new distractions the pup has to work through. JMHO!


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## Anna Kasho (Jan 16, 2008)

I agree with what Chris said. It's a 5 month puppy, have fun with her. Also think about this - are there any exersises in SchH where a dog shows aggression towards the owner? LOL


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Al Curbow said:


> Sounds like a young dog. There's really no aggression in Sch, it's just a sleeve, that's why they don't need suits. It's strictly the forearm. As long as the dog will play tug it'll probably do okay in Sch. Be patient and enjoy your dog.


 
Really Al, you should get out more! I'd love for you to see my dog work, then tell me there's no aggression.

Al, you seem to like picking on Sch, ever title a Sch. dog?


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

As many have allready stated it's a puppy, don't expect aggression or even ask for it.

Prey drive is what your after, at 5 months I could hardly walk around the house without my dog tuggin on my pants or shoes. He was willing to chase anything that moved. A leaf blows by during a walk, he was pulling on the leash to chase it. This type of behavior is a puppy with the makings of a good working dog.

Puppies also go through fear periods, expect them and don't nurish it when it occurs.


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

I'm not picking on Sch Edward, just keeping it real. If i had a Sch club close by i'd probably do it. But to say there's aggression is simply not true. If there was,there would be tons of chest and stomach and leg bites in the blind for example, that's just one example. No problems here though, i like all dog sports. Is this aggression in the blind? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agfFLtwU8n4 ,


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm no expert Al, but chest and stomach bites to me don't show aggression, but a dog without control.

Wow that's pretty impressive hold and bark on an empty blind. =D> :roll:


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## Jeremy Pickett (Jan 8, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> it's a puppy, you're being a dumb owner.
> 
> Quit with the OB. Play fetch and tug. Don't leave toys laying around the house, you control the toys.
> Quit slapping the puppy around and trying to get aggression out of it. Do you know how many times I have tried to get my dog to show me aggression? Zero, as in NEVER, it's dumb so don't do it.
> ...


Ok the first part of your response was both ignorant and uncalled for..... I'm on here asking questions to get real answers not arrogant remarks like calling me a dumb owner. If questions aren't asked then how can people learn what to do to make things right?? Comments like yours just makes people want to just sit back and not even ask. I know it's a puppy and when I said slapping the dog I meant more of a wrestling kind of way.... a game, not beating my dog. 

Everyone else thank you for your responses.... I really appreciate it. 

A lil more info on her, she will play tug and she will chase things but usually once she gets to what she's chasing she will just let it be. She's a very jealous dog as well, if one of my other GSD's has something she wants it no matter if she already has one or not and she will chance them to the end of the workld to get it. She's a very alert dog as well.... I live in the country and we have a lot of deer in my yard at night and she will bark like crazy at them.... if she hears an unfamiliar voice without seeing the person she's starts barking and I guess giving her own warning to the voice. Also if she sees a stranger come into the yard she raises all kind of hell. The only thing with playing tug with her is she quits too easy. She'll tug for about 3-5 seconds and then let go. I guess I'm just paranoid that she's not gonna turn out like I was hoping but like I said in my original post, she's my girl and whether she turns out to be an awsome Shutzhund dog or just a family pet, she has a forever home with me cuz I love that girl.


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## Anne Vaini (Mar 15, 2007)

Jeremy Pickett said:


> Ok the first part of your response was both ignorant and uncalled for..... I'm on here asking questions to get real answers not arrogant remarks like calling me a dumb owner. If questions aren't asked then how can people learn what to do to make things right?? Comments like yours just makes people want to just sit back and not even ask. I know it's a puppy and when I said slapping the dog I meant more of a wrestling kind of way.... a game, not beating my dog.
> 
> Everyone else thank you for your responses.... I really appreciate it.
> 
> A lil more info on her, she will play tug and she will chase things but usually once she gets to what she's chasing she will just let it be. She's a very jealous dog as well, if one of my other GSD's has something she wants it no matter if she already has one or not and she will chance them to the end of the workld to get it. She's a very alert dog as well.... I live in the country and we have a lot of deer in my yard at night and she will bark like crazy at them.... if she hears an unfamiliar voice without seeing the person she's starts barking and I guess giving her own warning to the voice. Also if she sees a stranger come into the yard she raises all kind of hell. The only thing with playing tug with her is she quits too easy. She'll tug for about 3-5 seconds and then let go. I guess I'm just paranoid that she's not gonna turn out like I was hoping but like I said in my original post, she's my girl and whether she turns out to be an awsome Shutzhund dog or just a family pet, she has a forever home with me cuz I love that girl.


Sounds like you are playing tug all wrong with her. Can you post a video of playing tug with her?


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jeremy,

You will soon learn that post like Chris's arent really ment to piss you off, but a little smack up side the head, a wake up call. Everyone here was a noob at one time or another, some even deep into last centry.8)

So you pups 5 months, how's the teething going? Maybe her mouth is still sensitive?


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Jeremy,

Edward is correct...

I said you ARE BEING A DUMB OWNER not you are a dumb owner. There is a distinct difference in the wording.

At 5mo your pup is probably teething. Unless you know what you're doing, you could **** up her grip for later on. Just play fetch for another month and then get into a schH club so they can help you.

I know what you mean by wrestling and slapping the dog around. What is the purpose of that? What are you trying to achieve? 





Jeremy Pickett said:


> Ok the first part of your response was both ignorant and uncalled for..... I'm on here asking questions to get real answers not arrogant remarks like calling me a dumb owner. If questions aren't asked then how can people learn what to do to make things right?? Comments like yours just makes people want to just sit back and not even ask. I know it's a puppy and when I said slapping the dog I meant more of a wrestling kind of way.... a game, not beating my dog.
> 
> Everyone else thank you for your responses.... I really appreciate it.
> 
> A lil more info on her, she will play tug and she will chase things but usually once she gets to what she's chasing she will just let it be. She's a very jealous dog as well, if one of my other GSD's has something she wants it no matter if she already has one or not and she will chance them to the end of the workld to get it. She's a very alert dog as well.... I live in the country and we have a lot of deer in my yard at night and she will bark like crazy at them.... if she hears an unfamiliar voice without seeing the person she's starts barking and I guess giving her own warning to the voice. Also if she sees a stranger come into the yard she raises all kind of hell. The only thing with playing tug with her is she quits too easy. She'll tug for about 3-5 seconds and then let go. I guess I'm just paranoid that she's not gonna turn out like I was hoping but like I said in my original post, she's my girl and whether she turns out to be an awsome Shutzhund dog or just a family pet, she has a forever home with me cuz I love that girl.


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## Molly Graf (Jul 20, 2006)

Really it's very difficult to give advice over the internet, from a description made by someone new to the sport, with a new puppy noone here has seen. Impossible, really. The best thing for you is to find a Schutzhund trainer in your area - or travel to one - and have them have a look-see at your puppy, what you are doing with her, and give you advice about how to progress - they can also tell you if the pup looks promising or not, and if you have indeed been doing everything wrong, or everything right! Beware of "internet experts" - though of course people want to help you, in the end it will just be confusing. 

molly


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## Chris Michalek (Feb 13, 2008)

Al Curbow said:


> I'm not picking on Sch Edward, just keeping it real. If i had a Sch club close by i'd probably do it. But to say there's aggression is simply not true. If there was,there would be tons of chest and stomach and leg bites in the blind for example, that's just one example. No problems here though, i like all dog sports. Is this aggression in the blind? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agfFLtwU8n4 ,



it depends on how you train it. We do aggression work with my dogs but not everybody has a helper that knows how to do that properly, some people don't even have a helper.


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## Jeremy Pickett (Jan 8, 2010)

Chris Michalek said:


> Jeremy,
> 
> Edward is correct...
> 
> ...


I'm not really trying to achieve anything by, just a way to play with my pup. Just a bonding thing I guess.... my other GSD's love it and will play it all day everyday, and she will too just not as enthused as the others. 

I guess I took your post the wrong way, just like I guess you took my original post the wrong way. I'm not trying to train her right now, I'm letting her be a pup and do what pups do but at the same time I'm trying to play games with her that are training her without her knowing it.... she thinks it's play time and all fun and games but in reality it's giving her a good prey drive and more confidence. 

I am new to Schutzhund but not new to dogs or dog training. I have trained many dogs in Obedience,Personal Protection, and Agility but am 100% new to Schutzhund. I'm trying not to let my history in Personal Protection training be apart of my Schutzhund training cuz they are very different.... that's why I'm here, trying to learn how to raise my pup for the Schutzhund because it is new to me. So any advise on what to do in her first year would be greatly appreciated. 

On a side not, I am doing obedience with her already but it's 100% positive reinforcement and absolutely zero corrections. I know she's a pup and have no interest in correcting her with obedience training as of now, it is ALL treats and praise WHEN she does it, not when I make her do it.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

I think most here would agree to forget OB for awhile. Plenty of time for that later. Build drive and have fun with your pup.


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## Jeremy Pickett (Jan 8, 2010)

Edward Egan said:


> I think most here would agree to forget OB for awhile. Plenty of time for that later. Build drive and have fun with your pup.


Yea I can see what your saying, I guess my main reason behind doing some OB with her is so that I could take her out and socialize her with some control and not have to worry about her trying to drag me to every dog or person she sees.... just wanted to take her out and let her see the world outside her home but at the same time having some control over her. 

Once again thanks for all the replies, like I said Shutzhund is all new to me but I'm learning and you guys are definitely helping me learn this great sport. The closest club I have found around me is about 3 hours away and with my work schedule it's hard to make that trip often. So my learning is pretty much limited to the internet and dvd's right now.


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## Anne Jones (Mar 27, 2006)

To say there is no aggression in SchH because the dogs bites sleeves is a silly statement. There are plenty of 'real' dogs doing SchH as well as dogs that are far more prey driven. Depends on the dog's individual makeup. Sleeve bites are no different then suit bites & leg bits, depending on the sport venue. It is ALL taught targeting as to where the dog bites in what sport. Real police/PPD bites can be anywhere on the body, but still many of the k9s are still trainined to target on the legs & arms to immobolize their opponents. Dogs bringing real fight to the decoy are found in all the sports. It all depends on the individual dog. It has nothing to do with which sport the dog is participating in.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jeremy,

I seen several post here with questions that have gone unanswered. Please look over the preceeding post and try to answer the questions. People are taking time out to give you ideas, you should return the courtesy and reply to the questions presented. This is the only way you can receive further help.

You mentioned DVD's what DVD's do you have?

Ya three hours is tough, but I'm sure you will make the best of it. What area are you in?

Eddie


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## Jeremy Pickett (Jan 8, 2010)

Edward Egan said:


> Jeremy,
> 
> I seen several post here with questions that have gone unanswered. Please look over the preceeding post and try to answer the questions. People are taking time out to give you ideas, you should return the courtesy and reply to the questions presented. This is the only way you can receive further help.
> 
> ...


I scanned back through and only saw 2 unanswered questions.... correct me if I'm wrong....I just now saw them.

Anne.... I don't have a video of her playing tug but would love to see a video of someone playing tug the correct way so that if I am doing it wrong I can correct myself. 

Eddie.... I did take a good look at her and your correct, she is teething and she is growing in teeth so she prolly is pretty sensitive there. I'll have to look at my dvd's when I get back home to give you the titles... don't wanna misquote myself... I'm located in the little town of Smiths,AL... on the Columbus,GA border.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

OK, well there you go. 
If you were cutting teeth would you want to play tug? Some dogs don't seem to care, but others do. Wait until her teeth are in and strong before playing any tug.

I only played prey games at this stage with my puppy. I used a rag/towel, sat on the floor and had my dog chase the towel around, through, and over my legs etc. Also did like a rabbit out the hole kinda thing, as soon as the dog went to pounce, rabbit was back in the hole. Building a little frustration, then let the dog win. Important to do short sessions, like five minutes, keeping the dog wanting more.


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