# Stick, Whip, or None



## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

With the current IPO rules doing away with stick hits for 2014, what's your thoughts on the use in your club setting?

What are your views on decoys/helpers using the padded stick, whip, or none of it with your dogs?

IMO, if you have to use a tool to "pump up or load up" a dog to get them to bite, then it's either bad decoying, too much pressure on the dog, or a poor dog... :roll:


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Howard Gaines III said:


> With the current IPO rules doing away with stick hits for 2014, what's your thoughts on the use in your club setting?
> 
> What are your views on decoys/helpers using the padded stick, whip, or none of it with your dogs?
> 
> IMO, if you have to use a tool to "pump up or load up" a dog to get them to bite, then it's either bad decoying, too much pressure on the dog, or a poor dog... :roll:



Howard, I believe that IPO is still using the stick in trials, I would think people looking to compete better still be using them. I also believe that many people use the stick as a cue for the dog to bite in training, such as in the blind, instead of using it to "pump up" the dog. 

I use a whip to piss a dog off, is that loading him up? is that bad training?


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## Mark Horne (Oct 12, 2006)

I like the use of the stick at Club level, the good decoys use the stick a lot initially but help the dog work through it in prey drive, by the time the dog is experienced the decoys provide no activation, the handler gives the command, the dog barking or biting activates the passive decoy.

Some of the most frightening things we experience in life never actually happen to us, its the fear in our minds it doesn't matter whether its going to the dentist for some or that the CIA found their most effective methods of torture were to make suggestions to hardened terrorists and leave them alone for a few days and let their own minds do the damage, the point I'm making is the stick with the "right" Decoy is a threat, and more so the actions and presence of the decoy but there comes a point where that threat needs to be underpinned to make it credible... as in two measured hits with a padded stick.

The stick should be used as one of the many tools in the box at Club level to structure the development of that particular dog to its maximum potential and in a way that suits/works for that dog/handler.

Mark


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Howard Gaines III said:


> With the current IPO rules doing away with stick hits for 2014, what's your thoughts on the use in your club setting?
> 
> 
> Where are you getting this from?


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## Hunter Allred (Jan 28, 2010)

we use padded sticks, clatter sticks, whips for both prey stim and pressure, jugs of rocks, pool-noodles wrapped with streamers, or whatever else is handy. All part of training


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## Matt Vandart (Nov 28, 2012)

Howard Gaines III said:


> With the current IPO rules doing away with stick hits for 2014, what's your thoughts on the use in your club setting?
> 
> What are your views on decoys/helpers using the padded stick, whip, or none of it with your dogs?
> 
> *IMO, if you have to use a tool to "pump up or load up" a dog to get them to bite, then it's either bad decoying, too much pressure on the dog, or a poor dog... :roll:*



Please clarify.

The stick in a trial setting is not for pumping up the dog though.
Personally I think it's piss poor that they are removing the proper use of the stick, very sad indeed, but it's just another of the weird changes to the rules.
If one was an alien from mars and you were to look at schutzhund and then modern IPO one would be a be surprised when told IPO was the evolution of the former.


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## Steve Burger (Jan 2, 2009)

It all depends on the training helper. I have had the privilege of watching some masters use the stick and whip, and with them (Lance Collins, Jurgen Ritzi) it is truly an art form, they can take dogs to a whole different level applying just the right amount of pressure, and bringing out fight from a dog that nobody even knew was there.


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## patricia powers (Nov 14, 2010)

forgive me if i'm wrong, but club level trials will still include stick hits. fci was the organization that mandated this & it sounds like the trials at that level are the ones affected so far. at least that's how i understood it. there is a lot of misinfo floating around out there. pjp


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## Anita Griffing (Aug 8, 2009)

Only, for now, stick hits will be taken out this year at
the FCI International Championship. Germany and USCA
will not get rid of stick hits at any level as they consider
it apart of the test for breeding. VDH had a meeting last weekend
and they will not take the stick hit out or entertain the thought.
Even if later the FCI votes to take it out, USCA and (at least)
Germany will not take it out. (of course it is up to individuals
how they want to train)
Anita


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## Howard Gaines III (Dec 26, 2007)

Anita Griffing said:


> Only, for now, stick hits will be taken out this year at
> the FCI International Championship. Germany and USCA
> will not get rid of stick hits at any level as they consider
> it apart of the test for breeding. VDH had a meeting last weekend
> ...


It seems to me that this is an important part of the protection testing venue. Just as blinds are used and can be used to represent other things, the stick should be used to weed out poor training or poor genetics. If you water down your testing, what do you have to show for down the road...? :-k


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Howard Gaines III said:


> It seems to me that this is an important part of the protection testing venue. Just as blinds are used and can be used to represent other things, the stick should be used to weed out poor training or poor genetics. If you water down your testing, what do you have to show for down the road...? :-k


Show dogs! That's the reason many of the "used to be" exercises have been removed from Schutzhund/IPO.


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