# Bottle curtain courage test, new decoy



## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

My female Indie doing a PSA style courage test with new decoy Josh. He started training with us about a month ago. Catching on quickly in the suit. 

http://youtu.be/a8prMR19kcM


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Nice decoy work for only a month in the suit. I'd have him hold the curtain in front of him (waist high) with his right hand so Indie has to go over/through the curtain to target the left bicep and then alternate targeting the right side. He should also move the curtain so it makes some noise.


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Nice Pup!!!


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Nice decoy work for only a month in the suit. I'd have him hold the curtain in front of him (waist high) with his right hand so Indie has to go over/through the curtain to target the left bicep and then alternate targeting the right side. He should also move the curtain so it makes some noise.


why alternate sides? just curious.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Nice decoy work for only a month in the suit. I'd have him hold the curtain in front of him (waist high) with his right hand so Indie has to go over/through the curtain to target the left bicep and then alternate targeting the right side. He should also move the curtain so it makes some noise.


Thanks Thomas, He was a nice addition to our little training group. Open minded, eager to learn, and no ego. He is the third guy that has learned basic suit work on the dog in the vid. She is not a overly strong dog but she has served as an excellent dog to get new decoys "feet wet" very proud of her for that. 
As far as the work in the vid, we are building up to all that. We have done some very short sends with the distractions in different places but we were working on the catch/drive at a "distance." As he gets better at reading dogs, ill let him up the pressure and distraction.


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

kid did good, he flagged a little, but great safe catch.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks Ted! Could you give a more detailed decoy critique? "Do this" "Don't do that" kinda thing.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> why alternate sides? just curious.


You want the distraction in the opposite hand so it doesn't block the bite too much and you want to alternate right and left side target if the decoy happens to turn and take away the primary target (right bicep for example) that the dog is comfortable taking the target available


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Are you still training mondio Thomas?


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Max Orsi said:


> Are you still training mondio Thomas?


Yes, trying to get ready for a trial on Dec 7/8


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## Max Orsi (May 22, 2008)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Yes, trying to get ready for a trial on Dec 7/8



Kick A$$!!!

In a few months I would be back in the states, maybe we can finally meet!!!

Remember the last pup I was training, Duke?

Just got 2nd place at the FMBB mondio world championship.

Keep in touch, I will be moving to florida

happy training


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks and congrats on the second place at the FMMB Worlds.
Let me know when you get to Florida.




Max Orsi said:


> Kick A$$!!!
> 
> In a few months I would be back in the states, maybe we can finally meet!!!
> 
> ...


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> You want the distraction in the opposite hand so it doesn't block the bite too much and you want to alternate right and left side target if the decoy happens to turn and take away the primary target (right bicep for example) that the dog is comfortable taking the target available


hmm. ok..
I was not aware that the decoys turn and take away the targets. Personally I dont think they do, an anyhow it would be far too late for the dog to take the complete other side if they did. 

I get you though you want the dog to be comfortable taking various areas. Quite a few people I know just train left side target for up top on PSA though. That is the most common area, and preferred area as I understand it. WIth some dogs its hard enough not to get them creeping to center mass, switching sides often will sometimes cause certain dogs to start hitting more center, if this a problem with the dog, I would stick to the left side for me.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

If you're talking PSA only (I wasn't) then they are not supposed to turn. However I bet occasionally a decoy may turn too soon and take away the left arm. forcing the dog toward center mass or even the right side. You'd be surprised how quickly a dog can refocus on another area when his first target goes away. Usually the last thing that moves gets bit. Watch some ring sport pivot videos. The dog is targeting one leg and the target goes away and he'll take the pivot leg in micro seconds.
Check out the Mark Keating/Leerburg decoy training series.





Joby Becker said:


> hmm. ok..
> I was not aware that the decoys turn and take away the targets. Personally I dont think they do, an anyhow it would be far too late for the dog to take the complete other side if they did.
> 
> I get you though you want the dog to be comfortable taking various areas. Quite a few people I know just train left side target for up top on PSA though. That is the most common area, and preferred area as I understand it. WIth some dogs its hard enough not to get them creeping to center mass, switching sides often will sometimes cause certain dogs to start hitting more center, if this a problem with the dog, I would stick to the left side for me.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> If you're talking PSA only (I wasn't) then they are not supposed to turn. However I bet occasionally a decoy may turn too soon and take away the left arm. forcing the dog toward center mass or even the right side. You'd be surprised how quickly a dog can refocus on another area when his first target goes away. Usually the last thing that moves gets bit. Watch some ring sport pivot videos. The dog is targeting one leg and the target goes away and he'll take the pivot leg in micro seconds.
> Check out the Mark Keating/Leerburg decoy training series.


thomas, I have worked lots of dogs. but thanks for the lesson..

dogs in flight do not refocus well if targets disappear. momentum inhibits lateral movement, especially if the front legs or all 4 legs are off the ground. 

If this happens often they start going back to center..where we dont really want them to go, for safety reasons..at least that is my experience.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby,

Buy the Keating Video and you'll see what I mean. I don't have time for the back and forth





Joby Becker said:


> thomas, I have worked lots of dogs. but thanks for the lesson..
> 
> dogs in flight do not refocus well if targets disappear. momentum inhibits lateral movement, especially if the front legs or all 4 legs are off the ground.
> 
> If this happens often they start going back to center..where we dont really want them to go, for safety reasons..at least that is my experience.


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## Stacey Beller (Dec 9, 2012)

The Original Post stated PSA Style courage Test.

Left Bicep


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Joby Becker said:


> hmm. ok..
> I was not aware that the decoys turn and take away the targets. Personally I dont think they do, an anyhow it would be far too late for the dog to take the complete other side if they did.
> 
> I get you though you want the dog to be comfortable taking various areas. Quite a few people I know just train left side target for up top on PSA though. That is the most common area, and preferred area as I understand it. WIth some dogs its hard enough not to get them creeping to center mass, switching sides often will sometimes cause certain dogs to start hitting more center, if this a problem with the dog, I would stick to the left side for me.


It also can cause them to slow down upon entry. Because they don't know what side will be presented and slow to wait for which side will be presented.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Stacey Beller said:


> The Original Post stated PSA Style courage Test.
> 
> Left Bicep


Targeting only the left Bicep is great if all you're going to do is PSA and none of the decoys will ever turn early. I'd rather teach an upper body dog to retarget to what's available and work pivots
and yes dogs can retarget in mid air. ;-)


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

It's obvious he knew and the dog knew where it was going; left bicep/pocket. Make sure he keeps his arms up till the bite. He flagged (flattened/straightened) his arm. Theoretically the dog can bite anywhere. Flagging is telling the dog "bite here." I did it and I still do it with new dogs. Also, minor deal but he faded away from the bite. He knew she was coming to the pocket and flagged and moved to the right. You'll have dogs, like mine, that know what's going on and they will fade to the decoy right to hit the left pocket. They do it because we spin away from the bite to absorb. Plus, mine learned via muzzle fitting to use his body to hit the decoy. It looks good as he's already in position to drape across the decoy before his feet hit the ground to go right into the drive. You'll see decoys move right to counter their approach and end up getting hit in the chest and stuffing the dog. Tell him arms up, straight lines (don't adjust to the dog) always straight lines, don't flag, wait for impact and absorb, turn and drive... Send him to Dallas the first weekend in Feb


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Ted Summers said:


> It's obvious he knew and the dog knew where it was going; left bicep/pocket. Make sure he keeps his arms up till the bite. He flagged (flattened/straightened) his arm. Theoretically the dog can bite anywhere. Flagging is telling the dog "bite here." I did it and I still do it with new dogs. Also, minor deal but he faded away from the bite. He knew she was coming to the pocket and flagged and moved to the right. You'll have dogs, like mine, that know what's going on and they will fade to the decoy right to hit the left pocket. They do it because we spin away from the bite to absorb. Plus, mine learned via muzzle fitting to use his body to hit the decoy. It looks good as he's already in position to drape across the decoy before his feet hit the ground to go right into the drive. You'll see decoys move right to counter their approach and end up getting hit in the chest and stuffing the dog. Tell him arms up, straight lines (don't adjust to the dog) always straight lines, don't flag, wait for impact and absorb, turn and drive... Send him to Dallas the first weekend in Feb


Good info Ted, Thank you! Whats in Dallas in Feb?


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## Ted Summers (May 14, 2012)

Decoy camp with Darrick and I think Jeff Ricco and Siggins


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> Targeting only the left Bicep is great if all you're going to do is PSA and none of the decoys will ever turn early. I'd rather teach an upper body dog to retarget to what's available and work pivots
> and yes dogs can retarget in mid air. ;-)


thomas..if the dog wants to bite and target is taken away, dogs will take what is in front of them, so yes they do retarget, as in take what they can get ...I have never had a dog that would only target one area, even if I have only shown that dog one target area purposely in training....

if the dog wants to bite, it bites..wherever it can.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> thomas..if the dog wants to bite and target is taken away, dogs will take what is in front of them, so yes they do retarget, as in take what they can get ...I have never had a dog that would only target one area, even if I have only shown that dog one target area purposely in training....
> 
> if the dog wants to bite, it bites..wherever it can.


If you show a dog nothing but left bicep for 100 x and on the 101 st time take away the left bicep. Not many dogs will readjust in time. Many many years ago Armin Winkler told a story about working with a National Schutzhund team and how putting on a right arm sleeve confused a lot of them, because they'd never seen it before.


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## Joby Becker (Dec 13, 2009)

Thomas Barriano said:


> If you show a dog nothing but left bicep for 100 x and on the 101 st time take away the left bicep. Not many dogs will readjust in time. Many many years ago Armin Winkler told a story about working with a National Schutzhund team and how putting on a right arm sleeve confused a lot of them, because they'd never seen it before.


Thomas, no one ever said NEVER to show the dog anything else...not many dogs will adjust well if in flight and target is taken away...in PSA style courage test...they will not move over to right side of body anyhow, not enough time..they will grab chest/shoulder/stomach whatever...not right bicep that is for sure...

For some dogs yes that could be a huge problem depending on the training.


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## Thomas Barriano (Mar 27, 2006)

Joby Becker said:


> Thomas, no one ever said NEVER to show the dog anything else...not many dogs will adjust well if in flight and target is taken away...in PSA style courage test...they will not move over to right side of body anyhow, not enough time..they will grab chest/shoulder/stomach whatever...not right bicep that is for sure...
> 
> For some dogs yes that could be a huge problem depending on the training.



Ring dogs in general and French Ring in particular are much better at readjusting to new targets if the primary target is no longer available. I'll take your word that no PSA dog has ever bitten the right bicep, based on your vast PSA decoy experience.


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## Oscar Mora (Mar 31, 2010)

Decoy looks like a natural.....Thanks for sharing.


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## Austin Porter (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks Oscar!


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