# Kirchner Bite Suits



## Maren Bell Jones

I met Mr. Charles Kirchner at a Schutzhund trial in March and was pretty pleased with his equipment and prices. Has anyone ordered one of his bite suits? I looked into Demanet, but won't be able to get a new one until late September. $1100 seems pretty inexpensive for a custom cut one (and in bite suits, I've heard you get what you pay for...), so looking for some feedback. Alternatively, I'm looking into getting one suit to fit two guys in the 6'3"-6'4" range (both between 220 and 240ish lbs) if anyone has a newer used training one.

http://www.canine-consultants.com/bitesuit.html


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## Tim Lynam

Never heard of them...

From what I see in the pics, it doesn't look like the jacket closure snaps would hold up for long.

Just my 2 cents...

Tim


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## Michael Santana

I have one from him, I have had it for about 3 years now with some significant use. I also know of several others that have suits from him. So far, no issues with the suit, or the buckles.


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## David Frost

If memory serves me correctly I think one them thar Lyda boys use one of the suits Charlie sells. He's one of my "heros" by the way. Quite a storied police trainer. Not known by a lot of the younger folk. He's just not flashy enough or marketed enough I guess. A real police dog trainer. 

DFrost


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## Tom Cawood

I have one of Kirchners suits and know several others that have them, and we all are pleased with them. They hold up real good.


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## Rik Wolterbeek

David Frost said:


> If memory serves me correctly I think one them thar Lyda boys use one of the suits Charlie sells. He's one of my "heros" by the way. Quite a storied police trainer. Not known by a lot of the younger folk. He's just not flashy enough or marketed enough I guess. A real police dog trainer.
> 
> DFrost


David, I fully agree with what you say about Charly. He was and is an icon in Police K9 training and I had the pleasure and honor working with him at many seminars all over the country It was also a pleasure training with him when I lived in SC. He was well known before the internet became popular and EDD dogs were very scarse. He is the guy that trained the very first bomb dog.

I worked in the suits Charlie sells and they are excellent for the price you pay for it. I did not notice any flaws on the suits and the buckles never came off.


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## Jerry Lyda

We have several and we have no problems with them. I recommend him and his product to anyone. Not a better guy in the world except for maybe David.


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## Harry Keely

Never have had a dry one on :lol:, there is one and its always used for bitework in the pool, All I can say is that theres been no injuries to date so far wearing one;-), Demanets are used on the dry land.

He also sells alot of other equipment to such as tugs, leashes, etc....... His leashes are coming from his old friend / partner Wayne Collins which distributes equipment to Charlie his website is www.bombdogs.com , Wayne was the number two bomb dog handler in histroy, Charlie being the first. Also Wayne being the first accelerant dog handler. 

All these guys ( Charlie, Wayne, Rik, ) Use to do seminars together under NLENCO. They also had a guy name Luc Meiresone who has robbed and rip off people including people from his own group, myself and other law enforcement throughout the USA. Above three are OK but Luc is a crook, so just make sure mainly Charlie is not getting his dogs from Luc before you buy one from him, Charlie is OK to buy from from what I hear. , If you know of Luc entering into the SC please let your local law enforcement agency know, hes on file with Law Enforcemnet or call me please.


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## Keith Earle

Charlie was at our APPDA trial this weekend in Ocala fla with a nice display of equipment I belive he sold a suit and lots of other gear to many different ,miltary ,police and protection dog folk s i have purchased many things from charlie over the years ,all holds up well and very reasonable price ,we do have a suit from him in the club that gets beat up pretty bad but decoy say they love it, buckles no problems. would recommend giving him a try.


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## will fernandez

Use his hidden sleeves-and love them for the price.


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## Maren Bell Jones

Yeah, I was about to buy one of his hidden sleeves at the trial, but had to run off to show my dog. When I was done, he was gone. :sad: But I liked what I saw. I threw a jacket on and it felt like good quality to my untrained eye. Very nice gentleman too. :smile:


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## Harry Keely

will fernandez said:


> Use his hidden sleeves-and love them for the price.





Maren Bell Jones said:


> Yeah, I was about to buy one of his hidden sleeves at the trial, but had to run off to show my dog. When I was done, he was gone. :sad: But I liked what I saw. I threw a jacket on and it felt like good quality to my untrained eye. Very nice gentleman too. :smile:


Yup the hidden sleeves are jam up for sure, I second on the hidden equipment.


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## FRANKIE COWEN

HARRY 

you talking about the 'red baron " hidden sleeve, what do you like or dislike abouth that hidden sleve , if thats the one your refering 

thanks 
frankie


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## Harry Keely

FRANKIE COWEN said:


> HARRY
> 
> you talking about the 'red baron " hidden sleeve, what do you like or dislike abouth that hidden sleve , if thats the one your refering
> 
> thanks
> frankie


Not Charlie but Charlie's partne and friend http://www.bombdogs.com/BiteSleeves.html, good pics of both, Red baron Frankie is not as good flexibility as the blue do to being a tad bid more thick in my eyes even though there suppose to be the same, but offers more protection then the blue do to all those laces are no good in my eyes gives a dog a entire line for it to drop k-9's through ( yeah I know it shouldn't happen but accidents do happen hence called accidents ), hasn't happen to me knock on wood. Plus its easy on and easy off with a nice conforming fit more so then the blue do to its build, these are all just my opinions and we know how that gos, if ya like hit me up on the cell and we can talk some more if your interested.


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## FRANKIE COWEN

Ya im not a big fan of the lace ups, and and i also have a 3 inch scar from a hidden sleeve incident gone wrong , so i do know accidents can and will happen


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## Jeremy Wall

Have to agree, the sleeves he sells are top notch. We have used the "Black Widow" hidden sleeve for some time now and with some hard biting dogs. For the cost this sleeve is well worth the money as are his suits too Im sure. These sleeves outpreform any product we have bought from Ray Allen over the years and meet the USPCA dimensions for use in the trials.

Already been mentioned but this guy is a fountain of knowledge on detection dogs, though you will never know it by approaching to buy something as he is kinda humble IMO. And most people can't stand his stinkin cigars long enough to really talk to him for very long.


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## Jerry Lyda

I could sit there and listen to him if HE was sitting on the toilet. This man has forgotten more than most of us know.


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## Michael Santana

Jerry Lyda said:


> I could sit there and listen to him if HE was sitting on the toilet. This man has forgotten more than most of us know.


 
That, can be AWKWARD! :-\":-D


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## David Frost

Jerry Lyda said:


> I could sit there and listen to him if HE was sitting on the toilet. This man has forgotten more than most of us know.


ha ha ha, while I could do without the visual, I will agree with you Jerry. 

DFrost


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## Mark Baldassarre

I would not hesitate. I have one of his suits as does a friend/training partner. They are as good as or better than the competition's. Make sure to get high bib pants and velcro for the jacket front closure. Mine's a gray w/yellow trim semi...pretty snazzy. Order big enough to get a gauntlet on if going semi.


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## Mo Earle

here is a picture of Charlie's t-shirt...was at the APPDA trial \\/

​


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## Adam Swilling

Jerry Lyda said:


> I could sit there and listen to him if HE was sitting on the toilet. This man has forgotten more than most of us know.


 This guy has always got a lot of great old war stories. The last trial we were at, he sat and told stories for I know an hour and a half to my son. Someone asked me at one point if I knew where he was since he wasn't at his table. I told them just to look for the cigar smoke.


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## David Frost

I may have told this story before here, but I don't mind telling it again. When the military decided to go to the patrol dog, we had a lot of dog trainers, but few with patrol dog experience. This would have been late 68, early 69. The Washington D.C. Metropolitan Police Department volunteers to teach us about patrol dogs. I remember Mr. Kirchner well from that encounter. He was a tough instructor. I hadn't seen Mr. K in many years, although I had heard of him on occasion. I visited them thar Lyda boys for a shindig they held in Augusta Ga. Mr. K was there. Although it had been 40 years or so, I reminded Mr. K of the Air Force training they conducted. Being gracious, he said he remembered me, and we talked about that training and how training has progressed over the years. I still like his: it ain't rocket science" approach. 

DFrost


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## Adam Swilling

David Frost said:


> I may have told this story before here, but I don't mind telling it again. When the military decided to go to the patrol dog, we had a lot of dog trainers, but few with patrol dog experience. This would have been late 68, early 69. The Washington D.C. Metropolitan Police Department volunteers to teach us about patrol dogs. I remember Mr. Kirchner well from that encounter. He was a tough instructor. I hadn't seen Mr. K in many years, although I had heard of him on occasion. I visited them thar Lyda boys for a shindig they held in Augusta Ga. Mr. K was there. Although it had been 40 years or so, I reminded Mr. K of the Air Force training they conducted. Being gracious, he said he remembered me, and we talked about that training and how training has progressed over the years. I still like his: it ain't rocket science" approach.
> 
> DFrost


 I say that a lot myself and that's where I heard it from. The 2nd time I ever met him I hadn't been doing the dog thing long at all. He told me something that I've never forgotten: "Training a dog to do anything is only as hard as YOU make it."


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## Matt Hammond

I have had all brands of suits from very expensive, to Ray Allen, none have held up as long as the suits charlie sells. He is a great guy and does it more for the love of it now then for the money. The suits he sells are from a company called Seynaeve Dog Sport. Well made and priced right. Lots of designs and colors to choose from. 

http://www.seynaevedogsport.com/


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## Maren Bell Jones

Got a hidden sleeve and soft jute sleeve in today from Charlie. Came in from the south in two days on FedEx, not bad. He was very nice to speak with on the phone again as well. We'll probably order the bite suit from him as he quoted me $1250 delivered. Our little club will have to have a bake sale or something. :lol:


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## Mo Earle

Maren -Charlie is great-one of the club decoys we train with just got a suit....put on a demonstration-with a small "donation" required for an entry fee-some people will give more than you expect ...demonstrate dog obedience,agility,jumps and a protection show etc...and sell baked goods and lemonade- there you go- $$ to buy a suit


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## Charles Richard Kirchner

Thanks for the kind words. 

I have all types of equipment available and would love to provide you with any that you need. I also will come to your trails and demonstrations and bring the equipment for you to take a closer look. I cant come to every show but I can usually travel to many.

A word of correction. Mr. Collins also sells some of the equipment I have but he is not my business partner. I have known Wayne for many years and first trained him and his dog while he was a Fire Investigator for Prince Georges County in Maryland in the early 1980's. I trained and he handled the first arson detection dog there in the early 80's. Mr Collins has all of the documentation from that time.

I did work with the Metropolitan Police Washington, D.C. from 1960 to 1980 and then started my business, Canine Consultants Inc. While at MPDC I did work training the military to take their sentry dogs and convert them tot become patrol dogs. Over the many years I have worked and advised all branches of the government and military. worked with foreign heads of sate with their canine needs and consulted many foreign countries. During that time and even today I have met many nice people. I still meet nice people at the shows and trails I attend.


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## Keith Earle

about Time you got on Charlie


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## Maren Bell Jones

Nice to see you, Charlie. The equipment is just great. We were especially impressed with how substantial the green hornet young dog sleeve is. Other competitors sell a similar type for double. And the hidden sleeve seems like a good in between providing safety while not being too bulky. We've got a couple of new guys interested in trying decoy work, so just got to get them hooked and we'll put an order in.


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## Chris McDonald

Charles as I was reading this thread I was really impressed with what some od the experienced guys were saying about you. You were kinda entering the mystic god like category. I was almost disappointed to read a post from you, made me realize you might just be only human. Is this site that Matt posted the best site to buy your gear from? http://www.seynaevedogsport.com/ 
And someone else mentioned that you were the first guy to train the very first bomb dog? I was kind of confused by that statement? Did he mean the first certified one or something particular? Not tying to bust balls just trying to learn, I was just under the understanding that EDD were used for a long time. 
Thanks


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## Jerry Lyda

Charlie, glad you are here with us. We , Jay , is about ready for another suit. Will let you know.


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## Harry Keely

He also sells alot of other equipment to such as tugs, leashes, etc....... His leashes are coming from his old friend / partner Wayne Collins which distributes equipment to Charlie his website is www.bombdogs.com , Wayne was the number two bomb dog handler in histroy, Charlie being the first. Also Wayne being the first accelerant dog handler. 

All these guys ( Charlie, Wayne, Rik, ) Use to do seminars together under NLENCO. They also had a guy name Luc Meiresone who has robbed and rip off people including people from his own group, myself and other law enforcement throughout the USA. Above three are OK but Luc is a crook, so just make sure mainly Charlie is not getting his dogs from Luc before you buy one from him, Charlie is OK to buy from from what I hear. , If you know of Luc entering into the SC please let your local law enforcement agency know, hes on file with Law Enforcemnet or call me please.[/QUOTE]



Charles Richard Kirchner said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> I have all types of equipment available and would love to provide you with any that you need. I also will come to your trails and demonstrations and bring the equipment for you to take a closer look. I cant come to every show but I can usually travel to many.
> 
> A word of correction. Mr. Collins also sells some of the equipment I have but he is not my business partner. I have known Wayne for many years and first trained him and his dog while he was a Fire Investigator for Prince Georges County in Maryland in the early 1980's. I trained and he handled the first arson detection dog there in the early 80's. Mr Collins has all of the documentation from that time.
> 
> I did work with the Metropolitan Police Washington, D.C. from 1960 to 1980 and then started my business, Canine Consultants Inc. While at MPDC I did work training the military to take their sentry dogs and convert them tot become patrol dogs. Over the many years I have worked and advised all branches of the government and military. worked with foreign heads of sate with their canine needs and consulted many foreign countries. During that time and even today I have met many nice people. I still meet nice people at the shows and trails I attend.


Hows your buddy Luc doing? Just asking


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## Charles Richard Kirchner

Chris McDonald said:


> Charles as I was reading this thread I was really impressed with what some od the experienced guys were saying about you. You were kinda entering the mystic god like category. I was almost disappointed to read a post from you, made me realize you might just be only human. Is this site that Matt posted the best site to buy your gear from? http://www.seynaevedogsport.com/
> And someone else mentioned that you were the first guy to train the very first bomb dog? I was kind of confused by that statement? Did he mean the first certified one or something particular? Not tying to bust balls just trying to learn, I was just under the understanding that EDD were used for a long time.
> Thanks


I am an authorized distributor for Seynaeve so its best to buy from me. He will just refer you to me anyway.

A while back one of the Police K9 magazines did an exhaustive article on me and the Canine Explosive detection history. Prior to 1970 EDD was limited to dogs that were used to detect mines and buried ordnance. Through examination it was found that the dogs were not finding explosives but were finding the areas that were disturbed by humans (I.E. Disturbed earth dogs) This was a problem in war areas where people were burring their dead and food items like Korea. Dogs were not actually finding explosives. While at MPDC in 1970 it was apparent that explosives where going to be used more in terrorism and being the seat of the US government it was decided that we would try to train a detection dog(s) We used our LE pull to contact nearly every other LE and military department worldwide to look for information on how they did it. All the responses back indicated that no one had done it before and had no clue. TP Cahill used his British contacts to gain first hand info on the military and police there. Again they had no clue and had not tried it. Even our military was no help as they had not tried it either. The Northern Ireland situation was not as severe as it became in 1972 as they had not used explosives as a method of attention. We needed dogs that cold search fields and buildings and cars and planes.
I began with handlers and GS donated dogs (dogs that families gave to the MPDC) (or shelter dogs)Donald Hult, Sid Michelin and others and off we went. Sid even has his daily training notes he kept all of these years. Sid was the first handler and dog.
We also did the very first FAA program by using Fairfax County Police canines so they could be used at the local DC airports in case of bomb calls. 
Sorry to be long winded but there is a lot more and you should seek out the article as it goes into better detail.

Luc? I have not heard from him or know what he is doing for a long time now.


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## Connie Sutherland

Charles Richard Kirchner said:


> I did work with the Metropolitan Police Washington, D.C. from 1960 to 1980 and then started my business, Canine Consultants Inc. While at MPDC I did work training the military to take their sentry dogs and convert them tot become patrol dogs. Over the many years I have worked and advised all branches of the government and military. worked with foreign heads of sate with their canine needs and consulted many foreign countries. During that time and even today I have met many nice people. I still meet nice people at the shows and trails I attend.



But we still need a bio/intro in the bio forum. I know, I know ..... but it's a rule. 

http://www.workingdogforum.com/vBulletin/f20/


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## Harry Keely

Charles Richard Kirchner said:


> I am an authorized distributor for Seynaeve so its best to buy from me. He will just refer you to me anyway.
> 
> A while back one of the Police K9 magazines did an exhaustive article on me and the Canine Explosive detection history. Prior to 1970 EDD was limited to dogs that were used to detect mines and buried ordnance. Through examination it was found that the dogs were not finding explosives but were finding the areas that were disturbed by humans (I.E. Disturbed earth dogs) This was a problem in war areas where people were burring their dead and food items like Korea. Dogs were not actually finding explosives. While at MPDC in 1970 it was apparent that explosives where going to be used more in terrorism and being the seat of the US government it was decided that we would try to train a detection dog(s) We used our LE pull to contact nearly every other LE and military department worldwide to look for information on how they did it. All the responses back indicated that no one had done it before and had no clue. TP Cahill used his British contacts to gain first hand info on the military and police there. Again they had no clue and had not tried it. Even our military was no help as they had not tried it either. The Northern Ireland situation was not as severe as it became in 1972 as they had not used explosives as a method of attention. We needed dogs that cold search fields and buildings and cars and planes.
> I began with handlers and GS donated dogs (dogs that families gave to the MPDC) (or shelter dogs)Donald Hult, Sid Michelin and others and off we went. Sid even has his daily training notes he kept all of these years. Sid was the first handler and dog.
> We also did the very first FAA program by using Fairfax County Police canines so they could be used at the local DC airports in case of bomb calls.
> Sorry to be long winded but there is a lot more and you should seek out the article as it goes into better detail.
> 
> Luc? I have not heard from him or know what he is doing for a long time now.


Have read that article, very good to I must add.

Glad to hear that you have removed yourself from that belgium scumbag, he owes a ton of people dogs and or money, and also has con many innocent folks. Even screwed over his old friends that use to do seminars with and owes at least one I know of money and the other a mali.


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## Chris McDonald

Charles Richard Kirchner said:


> I am an authorized distributor for Seynaeve so its best to buy from me. He will just refer you to me anyway.
> 
> A while back one of the Police K9 magazines did an exhaustive article on me and the Canine Explosive detection history. Prior to 1970 EDD was limited to dogs that were used to detect mines and buried ordnance. Through examination it was found that the dogs were not finding explosives but were finding the areas that were disturbed by humans (I.E. Disturbed earth dogs) This was a problem in war areas where people were burring their dead and food items like Korea. Dogs were not actually finding explosives. While at MPDC in 1970 it was apparent that explosives where going to be used more in terrorism and being the seat of the US government it was decided that we would try to train a detection dog(s) We used our LE pull to contact nearly every other LE and military department worldwide to look for information on how they did it. All the responses back indicated that no one had done it before and had no clue. TP Cahill used his British contacts to gain first hand info on the military and police there. Again they had no clue and had not tried it. Even our military was no help as they had not tried it either. The Northern Ireland situation was not as severe as it became in 1972 as they had not used explosives as a method of attention. We needed dogs that cold search fields and buildings and cars and planes.
> I began with handlers and GS donated dogs (dogs that families gave to the MPDC) (or shelter dogs)Donald Hult, Sid Michelin and others and off we went. Sid even has his daily training notes he kept all of these years. Sid was the first handler and dog.
> We also did the very first FAA program by using Fairfax County Police canines so they could be used at the local DC airports in case of bomb calls.
> Sorry to be long winded but there is a lot more and you should seek out the article as it goes into better detail.
> 
> Luc? I have not heard from him or know what he is doing for a long time now.


Good stuff. So when you are referring to the dogs prior to 1970 EDD are you including the German war dogs as well or just American dogs? From the little I read I really thought the Germans had their dogs working the actual explosives well prior to the 1970s?


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## Charles Richard Kirchner

Chris McDonald said:


> Good stuff. So when you are referring to the dogs prior to 1970 EDD are you including the German war dogs as well or just American dogs? From the little I read I really thought the Germans had their dogs working the actual explosives well prior to the 1970s?


When we inquired in 1970 looking for information they said they had not even thought of the idea. Remember we did a worldwide search for information and were shocked to find it was not done because we wanted to learn how to do it because of our obvious mission in Washington, D.C. Since no one had even conceived of it I had to start from scratch and figure it out as I went along. At first the US Military was hesitant to assist in helping us find training aids but as we went along we proved to them that we were on to something and getting more success. I have letters from them stating their support and assistance because if we were successful they knew we would provide them the technology. In fact we provided the training to any department that wanted it back then. We wanted everyone to learn how to do it to provide a greater amount of security worldwide. German, French and the Finnish police all came from time to time to see our success after we had an active unit. Most thought it could not be done including TP Cahill.
I guess its kind of off topic though.


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## Chris McDonald

Charles Richard Kirchner said:


> When we inquired in 1970 looking for information they said they had not even thought of the idea. Remember we did a worldwide search for information and were shocked to find it was not done because we wanted to learn how to do it because of our obvious mission in Washington, D.C. Since no one had even conceived of it I had to start from scratch and figure it out as I went along. At first the US Military was hesitant to assist in helping us find training aids but as we went along we proved to them that we were on to something and getting more success. I have letters from them stating their support and assistance because if we were successful they knew we would provide them the technology. In fact we provided the training to any department that wanted it back then. We wanted everyone to learn how to do it to provide a greater amount of security worldwide. German, French and the Finnish police all came from time to time to see our success after we had an active unit. Most thought it could not be done including TP Cahill.
> I guess its kind of off topic though.


 
I guess we did get off topic, but its not often you ask about equipment and get the guy that makes it answer. 
What you said about the scent work I find very interesting. Im gona be tied up for a few days but I might try to start a post or pm you with a few questions about that. 
Thanks 
Back to equipment


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