# Arden grange sensitive, what do you think?



## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

I have been feeding my mali dh cross orijen puppy food and he appears to be intolerant to it. I am currently waiting on a poo analysis to help identify the cause of constantly soft poo. His brother had similar issues and his handler changed him to arden grange sensitive and got great results, handler believes the dogs are to a certain degree protein intolerant??? I tried barf and also had muddy poos.

Arden grange is a UK based company. 

Potato (min. 42%), White Fishmeal* (haddock) (min. 26%), Beet Pulp, Chicken Oil*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract *Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

Typical Analysis
Protein 25%, Oil 14%, Fibre 3%, Ash 7%, Moisture 8%, Omega6 4.89%, Omega3 1.27%, Vitamin A 15,000 IU/Kg, Vitamin D3 1,000 IU/kg, Vitamin E 100 IU/kg, Calcium 2.3%, Phosphorous P 1.4%, Copper 20mg/kg (as Cupric Sulphate).


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## Jo Radley (Jun 19, 2010)

Landofholisticpets.co.uk is better if you want a uk company. You will probably find the protein level in orijen is too high. Why feed potato? Is it a natural diet for dogs? Be interested to hear about the poo analysis. Have you tried feeding pro-biotics? Denes make a good one.
Jo


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Jo Radley said:


> Landofholisticpets.co.uk is better if you want a uk company. You will probably find the protein level in orijen is too high. Why feed potato? Is it a natural diet for dogs? Be interested to hear about the poo analysis. Have you tried feeding pro-biotics? Denes make a good one.
> Jo


I put 2 tablespoons of probiotic yoghurt in his food once a day doesn't make a difference, i have tried slippery elm powder also, no matter wat food i buy other than orijen it will have a filler of some description either maize, beet pulp, potatoe etc etc. I prefer to give a good feed of spuds as opposed to maize or similar. 

The poo analysis came back back negative for infections and parasites, the vet thinks it is ibd.

I chose the arden grange sensitive as my dogs brother who also has a dodgy tummy got a good result on the sensitive.

Having a dog with a bad stomach really is a.blight, he poo'd fairly well this morning while out in the fields, i took him through the town about an hour later and dropped a splattery mess on the street. Trying to lift it makes it worse so i carry a water bottle to squirt on it... Makes dog walking/socialization a disaster!! 

Got the arden grange so i'll post progress in a few days, thanks for the link if i dont get any joy i'll try them


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> I have been feeding my mali dh cross orijen puppy food and he appears to be intolerant to it. I am currently waiting on a poo analysis to help identify the cause of constantly soft poo. His brother had similar issues and his handler changed him to arden grange sensitive and got great results, handler believes the dogs are to a certain degree protein intolerant??? I tried barf and also had muddy poos.
> 
> Arden grange is a UK based company.
> 
> ...


Arden Grange do decent enough foods. Short of an elimination diet to establish what your dog is sensitive to, it can't do any harm to try this.

Generally an intolerance/allergy is related to one or more proteins. However, unless you look at a full elimination diet, it is difficult to work out what your dog may be intolerant to.


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Jo Radley said:


> Landofholisticpets.co.uk is better if you want a uk company.


I'm not sure why you say it is better? It is different, but not necessarily better IMO.



> You will probably find the protein level in orijen is too high.


Why do you think the protein level is too high? It's less than the dry equivalent of a raw diet (which is supposed to be more species appropriate).



> Why feed potato? Is it a natural diet for dogs?


Potato can be usefull for a dogs that is grain intolerant. It is no more or less natural a diet than oats, rice or any other carbohydrate source IMO.



> Be interested to hear about the poo analysis. Have you tried feeding pro-biotics? Denes make a good one.
> Jo


Probiotics and prebiotics are always worth a go, but if it is an intolerance to a certain protein will not fix the issue.


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## Jo Radley (Jun 19, 2010)

40 % protein is too high for many dogs. Potato is often sprayed and as a root vegetable stores the toxins. Bio yoghurts can be helpful but dogs can be intolerant to dairy produce, especially cows milk. Beet pulp is often used them to slow down the digestion when protein sources that dogs find harder to digest are included in the diet. 

IBD is usually due to a food sensitivity but can also be stress. 

No problem with arden grange but I wouldn't feed the potato again


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

I agree with Jo Radley. Forget the potato. 

Before giving up on Orijen (which is usually well tolerated by dogs) I'd give him bottled water for a while, just in case.

If that does not work try adding digestive enzymes (local health food store) to his meals. That litter may be enzyme deficient.

I agree it may well be a stress thing.

Good luck,

GG


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Gerald Guay said:


> I agree with Jo Radley. Forget the potato.
> 
> Before giving up on Orijen (which is usually well tolerated by dogs) I'd give him bottled water for a while, just in case.
> 
> ...



Why do you suggest bottled water?? I have put more effort into my dogs diet and health than I do my own!! All foods whether BARK, BARK, Kibble based or whatever will have chemicals to some extent surely?? Unless I farm my own products (unrealistic) and even at that no doubt what i feed the produce on will have chemicals too.

Have you any experience of the digestive enzymes? If so which would you recommend? I would be fearful of giving too high a dose and doing more harm than good.

Not sure about stress, as far as i can make out he lives the life of a king. He is always in the house with me, rarely alone for more than a few hours (generally after feeding). Is excercised 3-4 times a day, I have backed off on training and keep it to several 10 minute sessions a day. If he's stressed I wouldn't have a clue what the cause would be...

I have used probiotic yoghurts on and off to see if I can identify any causes, I have fed him twice a day to four times a day over a period of weeks again no difference, as I mentioned earlier the brother of my dog suffered the same problems.

he'll be going straight onto arden grange tomorrow as his stomach is already bad I see no point in phasing it in??

When he was a pup he was fed royal canin maxi (boo) when I tried him on orijen he became worse, as I bought 2 bags of orijen I was reluctant to change him again. 

Time will tell, tune in next week for another exciting episode of my dogs toilet activities


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## Doug Zaga (Mar 28, 2010)

My experience not all dogs do well on every super premium food. My last Rottweiler could not digest Wellness My current Rotti with help from Connie identifying the source of loose stools did not do well on Innova and is on Wellness Super 5 mix.

Lastly, over feeding is one of the top reasons for loose stools.


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## Gerald Guay (Jun 15, 2010)

Hey Jamie, Years ago when we lived in a town one of our dogs did not tolerate the chlorine in the water system. I've also heard of another dog that did not tolerate city water. Of course I do not know your situation, just trying to be helpful.

Your dog may not be producing enough protease, the enzyme that breaks down protein. Some vets will do a Fecal Protease Test. 

A dog does not have to live in a stressful environment to be stressed. Some dogs are naturally stressed animals. 

Do you feed all in one meal? Do you add supplements? 

Our present dog has firmer stools if we let her graze all day rather that feeding the one large meal.


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Gerald Guay said:


> Hey Jamie, Years ago when we lived in a town one of our dogs did not tolerate the chlorine in the water system. I've also heard of another dog that did not tolerate city water. Of course I do not know your situation, just trying to be helpful.
> 
> Your dog may not be producing enough protease, the enzyme that breaks down protein. Some vets will do a Fecal Protease Test.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your replies (i hope my earlier reply didn't come across wrong). I'm just totally frustrated with this problem, i stopped all supplements i was giving him shelleys biovonate vitamin powder, slippery elm powder. I have added raw bran, oats, eggs, leftovers etc then stopped everything to try and identify the cause. I have fed orijen dry and soaked all to no avail.

The water is an interesting option indeed, i live in northern ireland and no doubt the tap water is loaded with chemicals!


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## Jo Radley (Jun 19, 2010)

Try cutting his food down by a third. As an earlier post said, this can often be the cause. Denes probiotic + is worth a try. Sometimes too many changes affects the bacteria in the gut. http://www.denes.co.uk/advice/fact_sheets/probiotics.php
Let us know how you get on!


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## Mary Buck (Apr 7, 2010)

Have your Vet check the dog for pancreatic insufficiency . EPI creates the same pudding poops you have .


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## Ian Forbes (Oct 13, 2006)

Jo Radley said:


> 40 % protein is too high for many dogs.


Really? What is this statement based on?



> Potato is often sprayed and as a root vegetable stores the toxins.


I've seen no research to indicate that properly prepared/stored potatos are any more dangerous than grains (to humans or dogs)



> Bio yoghurts can be helpful but dogs can be intolerant to dairy produce, especially cows milk.


Dogs can be lactose intolerant, but the lower levels in yoghurt are often tolerated.



> Beet pulp is often used them to slow down the digestion when protein sources that dogs find harder to digest are included in the diet.


Beet pulp is really just a source of fibre and can help with beneficial bacteria. It's not a good or bad ingredient per se.



> IBD is usually due to a food sensitivity but can also be stress.
> 
> No problem with arden grange but I wouldn't feed the potato again


Good or bad experiences with a food and individual dog can often lead us to label a food (or ingredient) as good or bad. The simple fact is that not all foods suit all dogs......


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

Jamie Del Torro said:


> > Not sure about stress, as far as i can make out he lives the life of a king. He is always in the house with me, rarely alone for more than a few hours (generally after feeding). Is excercised 3-4 times a day, I have backed off on training and keep it to several 10 minute sessions a day. If he's stressed I wouldn't have a clue what the cause would be...
> >
> > I have used probiotic yoghurts on and off to see if I can identify any causes, I have fed him twice a day to four times a day over a period of weeks again no difference, as I mentioned earlier the brother of my dog suffered the same problems.
> >
> ...


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## Jamie Del Torro (Jul 28, 2010)

Well the arden grange seems to be doing the trick!! I gabe him 2 feeds yday both fed by hand (weight according to guidelines on the bag). Not only does he love it but he had a 92% hard poo this morning  he actually had to strain to get it out.

Hopefully thats a massive headache solved, the plan is to keep on ag sensitive and do a very slow transition to orijen over a few months. 

Thank you to everyone who posted with advice and suggestions, having a dog with a dodgy tummy is no fun!!


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