# This and That



## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Not sure if this is gonna work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GHqF4vEdVE

Haven't done a lot lately with the boy so I brought him out to our in-service training. Seeing as I felt the need to comment on the "Did he get bit?" thread, I thought I'd give some people a chance to snipe at my dog. At least he's got a good out.

The video was done by one of our dispatchers who has my friends' retired PSD that he brings out to training. His original video has the audio w/o music but mine doesn't for some reason.

Anyway...have at it boys.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Surely after 30 views someone's seen something wrong. Don't be shy, I'm a big boy.

I know when Jeff wakes up he'll have plenty for me.:-o He hates PP dogs.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Howard Knauf said:


> Surely after 30 views someone's seen something wrong. Don't be shy, I'm a big boy.
> 
> I know when Jeff wakes up he'll have plenty for me.:-o He hates PP dogs.


Your pants are too tight.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

I thought that the dog really looked like he likes his work.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> Your pants are too tight.



Thats cause I'm a tight ass.:razz: No "pants on the ground" for me.

OK, now I got a complex. Not what I was looking for. Time to do my once a decade shopping already?


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Howard I didn't post anything because there really is nothing to snipe at. Dog looks strong and serious in his work. Very nice dog! The only funny thing came to mind was letting RJ drink out of the water fountain....you know the next people are going to be drinking from that ;-)~

Oh yeah your pants are too tight ;-)~


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## Tammy St. Louis (Feb 17, 2010)

looked good to me to , the dog looked like he was there to get the job done, didint look scared to me at all , but i am not a pro in this field


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2010)

Howard,

I'm trying to understand the picture of aggression. That reason it's kind of tricky is that, short of having someone who'd volunteer to be injured, one is always left with indirect signs and signals about what the dog would REALLY do.

Some instances appear to be very straight forward indications of an aggressive dog. I.e. Tim's wibo vid.

Some are very obviously fear-biters, i.e. that CO.

The harder ones to read are the ones who're very confident, very possibly capable of aggression, but also frustrated in some degree of prey drive, which appears to be the case here.

I guess the thing I'd like to see more of (in general not just you) is toning down the helper stimulation to see what the dog is bringing on his own. I'm not seeing a ton of "pressure" per se, I'm seeing the same things used in Schutzhund to get excited barking in the blind ( I'm not shitting on that...I'm just saying with the whip cracking and all).

So what's the long term plan with him?

I'd reiterate, there's nothing wrong here, as far as I can see. But if there's one thing I've seen a lot of is this kind of thing, and not so much the end-game civil exercises on very passive helpers.


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## brad robert (Nov 26, 2008)

i like what steven wrote.building a dog up is all part of good solid training but i wonder how many of these dogs do when they encounter a submissive or sheepish perp who is still a real threat when the helper is quiet and not acting all crazy and putting the dog in drive can the dogs still bring it?

my old trainer use to sell many dogs to the military,police etc and would occasionally test a trained prospect on a long bite with the helper not acting all crazy and driving the dog or holding his arm out for the bite some wouldnt engage at all some would half hearted till the decoy fought back then some would just bite like hell but they were the very serious dogs

thoughts???


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## Sam Bishop (May 8, 2008)

He does have a nice out and a nice drinking technique Nothing really to snipe at - maybe more whip cracking than I like, but he had a nice grip and he seemed comfortable there - not a lot of decoy pressure but I don't know how far along he is. Seems like a nice dog - don't know if I'd try petting him when he's reved up after he outs - he looked like he though about your hand for a second


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Steven Lepic said:


> Howard,
> 
> I'm trying to understand the picture of aggression. That reason it's kind of tricky is that, short of having someone who'd volunteer to be injured, one is always left with indirect signs and signals about what the dog would REALLY do.
> 
> ...


 Hi Steve,
Thanks for the honest interpretation. I will have to post a better video so he can be evaluated a little more.

Here's what I can tell you (and Wayne Dodge can confirm this as he worked with him in Georgia.) RJ has a high threat threshold. He will light up on a passive decoy and no equipment doesn't matter to him. I'll post another video showing that. 

When Wayne worked him civil in Ga. the leather leash broke. Thankfully his recall is pretty good and Wayne didn't get bit even though he was only about 15 feet away. How bad would it have been? Only Wayne can tell you that.

If the audio was working you could hear that the bark is very defense-like. The rest of his body suggests otherwise though. No hair, forward motion and nice tail position. Thin nerves? Maybe but, He was raised as a family dog and he isn't getting hammered super hard in protection. 

The runoff is very committed and the bite is OK but the whip really brings it out, which I wish was different but what ya gonna do? His bite is much harder with defensive pressure and I've had a decoy put some stink on him and he seems to hold up well.

His nose is as good as his daddy's and I have a somewhat secret plan for him in the near future for scent work. It's in the early stages of planning and will be somewhat high profile (in this area anyway) when the deal is done. As far as I know a dog hasn't been trained for this type of detection yet and it will involve the feds.

While I wish my friend had videod the OB, it's not competition grade but very nice and he his very biddable. I don't pretend he's something he isnt. There are much better dogs out there but to me he's special because of where he came from. In the end that's all I really wanted.

Thanks Candy.

Howard


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

If you want more civil your helper is going to have to use the whip different or get rid if it he will need to be a better actor and get a little more personal with the dog rather than stimulating with the whip he needs to piss the dog off with his demeanor and actions. 
Hard to make a assessment when your not the one working the dog the helper is doing lots of stuff that says the dog is pretty green or not so good or he "the helper" doesn't have a big bag of tricks. Like I said it's all armchair bullshit unless your the one working the dog or know the dog.JMO


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard, I guess I'm the only one that will be honest with you. The dog would never work around an airport, he'll probably be nothing more than a decent pet. In fact, I know a person that is willing to give him a good home. That way you won't have to worry about him. How old is he?

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Sam Bishop said:


> He does have a nice out and a nice drinking technique Nothing really to snipe at - maybe more whip cracking than I like, but he had a nice grip and he seemed comfortable there - not a lot of decoy pressure but I don't know how far along he is. Seems like a nice dog - don't know if I'd try petting him when he's reved up after he outs - he looked like he though about your hand for a second


 I guess when posting a video and putting your dog out there it is only natural to try and get the best possible example you can. The decoy is still green so yes, too much whip cracking. I'm still working with going hands on during the bite because it seems to distract him sometimes. He's never been flanked so I don't know what his problem is. He'll sometimes come off the bite when I pet him which bothers the piss out of me. I'm working on it though.



> I guess the thing I'd like to see more of (in general not just you) is toning down the helper stimulation to see what the dog is bringing on his own. I'm not seeing a ton of "pressure" per se, I'm seeing the same things used in Schutzhund to get excited barking in the blind ( I'm not shitting on that...I'm just saying with the whip cracking and all).


 Steve...this same decoy did a stakeout test on him last year. I have the video somewhere. It was interupted by some moron on a golf cart but he didn't do too bad. His response to body language and eye contact was swift...another thing that makes me think high defense, but he never backed down even when the decoy got close and just stood there. He also did not show signs of avoidance which I was happy about.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David Frost said:


> Howard, I guess I'm the only one that will be honest with you. The dog would never work around an airport, he'll probably be nothing more than a decent pet. In fact, I know a person that is willing to give him a good home. That way you won't have to worry about him. How old is he?
> 
> DFrost


 Being that there are no smileys in your post I'll take it as you being serious. Thanks.
He turned three on Easter...and he'll be with me till the day he dies. He is the son of my Roscoe and even if he wouldn't bite a ham bone I'd keep him.

Howard


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

Howard, sorry, I don't use smileys, it was purely in jest. I was chuckling inside as I wrote my response, does that count? I certainly didn't see anything in that video that would cause me concern about the dog. 

DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Dammit man! Don't do that to me.

Do I think he has what it takes to be a PSD? More than likely, no. Would he be much much better after a 400 hr school. Hell yes. Have I seen worse PSDs? Yep. Will my wife let him go? Absolutely not!

First chance I get I'll post passive and civil work. Should get a better read on him. I wish I had the quality help that Gary Garner is getting on a regular basis but my area isn't rich with great helpers and a host of venues.



> I was chuckling inside as I wrote my response,.....


I bet you were chuckling at my britches. Man! Gawdawful! I burned em last night FYI.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

I could hear Mr Frost *evil chuckle* over on the West Coast :lol: Howard, I've been meaning to ask you how Nikko (sp?) is doing?


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

David, you usually use "ha, ha, ha" so I was going to ask you what you thought the dog should be showing. However, the "pet" struck a false note.

Howard, looked like a good performance. I was at the club last night and compared your dog with ones I saw there, GSDs and Malis, mostly sport but one or two service dogs. I guess he'll even step one up a bit after a few regular bite sessions. 

Glad you wouldn't want to part with him.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> I could hear Mr Frost *evil chuckle* over on the West Coast :lol: Howard, I've been meaning to ask you how Nikko (sp?) is doing?


 He is living the good life in a sport home. I really miss him though.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> He is living the good life in a sport home. I really miss him though.


Thanks Howard. That's very unselfish of you to let a dog go that you've grown attached to. Hopefully you'll get updates of the little bugger :razz:


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Candy Eggert said:


> Thanks Howard. That's very unselfish of you to let a dog go that you've grown attached to. Hopefully you'll get updates of the little bugger :razz:


 Don't you worry yourself none, Candy. I keep regular tabs on him. He's only 15 miles from my house and trains at the local Sch club where I go at least once a month. It hurts to see him but I knew it was best. 

The new owner has declined my offers to take him back. Didn't think I would grow that attached to him.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

You're right, I usually do use a ha ha, I really should have. 


DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Gillian Schuler said:


> ... the "pet" struck a false note.


Not to mention "I know someone who will take him off your hands... " :lol: :lol:


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Not to mention "I know someone who will take him off your hands... " :lol: :lol:


Funny how David always has "someone" at the read.:---)


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Connie Sutherland said:


> Not to mention "I know someone who will take him off your hands... " :lol: :lol:


I guess subtlety is not his strong point "Ha! Ha!"


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## ann schnerre (Aug 24, 2006)

ANY time david says a dog is a POS, and has a home for the poor thing in the same post, my BS indicators go crazy. 

i mean, come on, he works for the state, he has a budget, and if he can BS someone out of a good dog, well--why not?? 

hahaha


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

The dog looks like a nice confident dog to me douchnozzle, lol. If anything maybe lacking some foundation work.


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## Candy Eggert (Oct 28, 2008)

Howard Knauf said:


> Don't you worry yourself none, Candy. I keep regular tabs on him. He's only 15 miles from my house and trains at the local Sch club where I go at least once a month. It hurts to see him but I knew it was best.
> 
> The new owner has declined my offers to take him back. Didn't think I would grow that attached to him.


You and Nikko have the best of both worlds then ;-) Good for you both! I know it's a tough decision when a dog/pup isn't the right fit for either party. Not easy!! 

I know I should have sold mine to the LAPD K9 unit when they wanted him before he got so "opinionated"  

@ Al..bad, very bad :lol: That's "Mr. Douchnozzle" to you ;-)~


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Al Curbow said:


> The dog looks like a nice confident dog to me douchnozzle, lol. If anything maybe lacking some foundation work.


Hi Al,

Can you give me an example or two? I'll take anything I can. He's the first working dog I've raised from a puppy so it was all new to me.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Howard Knauf said:


> I bet you were chuckling at my britches. Man! Gawdawful! I burned em last night FYI.


I feel bad that I even mentioned that, it was just a joke.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

Nope. You were right. Waaaay too tight. 15 year old 501s are no longer. Even my son wouldn't wear em.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I personally think his pants should be tighter. All the kids are doing it these days. A little stretch denim, tapered legs, maybe some skate shoes? Could be a whole new look for him.

If ya got it...flaunt it.


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

OK. Now you're scaring me. My son tries to wear that stuff (his GF likes it) makes him look like those heroin losers on those cell phone commercials. What are kids thinking these days?


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

ha ha heroin chic. I see some of those models and tell them; eat a grape. Since they are on TV they can't hear me, but geez louise. Personally, I've beaten anorexia. 



DFrost


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## Howard Knauf (May 10, 2008)

David Frost said:


> ha ha heroin chic. I see some of those models and tell them; eat a grape. Since they are on TV they can't hear me, but geez louise. Personally, I've beaten anorexia.
> 
> That's funny right there.:razz:
> 
> ...


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)




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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

:lol: :lol: 

Anorexia didn't stand a chance in that battle!


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## maggie fraser (May 30, 2008)

That isn't David is it ? Is it ??


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## Steve Strom (May 25, 2008)

Maren Bell Jones said:


>


Hmm, thats not how I would have pictured David Frost.


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## David Frost (Mar 29, 2006)

maggie fraser said:


> That isn't David is it ? Is it ??


Nooooooooo, you'd never catch me in a yellow shirt, ha ha ha.

DFrost


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!




PS

No, Maggie, that's not David. How could he fit into his elf suit for the holidays?


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