# Feeding a puppy



## Laney Lejeune (Apr 22, 2011)

Ok, I just bought a GSD puppy about 3 weeks ago, she is 5 1/2 months. She is currently on a puppy food.

Years ago when my mom bred dogs, if she was keeping a puppy for herself, or raising a pup, she took the puppy off of puppy food very soon, and she had never raised a dog that had HD.

My question is what do yall do, feed puppy food, or feed adult, and if puppy, when do you change over? And if you feed adult, when do you start that?

I am not sure if she was just lucky or what, but I am a little paranoid about this pup because she is still on puppy food....maybe I just need to calm down


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Laney Lejeune said:


> Ok, I just bought a GSD puppy about 3 weeks ago, she is 5 1/2 months. She is currently on a puppy food.
> 
> Years ago when my mom bred dogs, if she was keeping a puppy for herself, or raising a pup, she took the puppy off of puppy food very soon, and she had never raised a dog that had HD.
> 
> ...


Which puppy food?


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

I personally have never fed "puppy" food. I would especially not feed the large breed types. 

Yes, growing puppies need more calories, but not a ton more protein. If a puppy food has about the same amount of protein as the adult formula, then I would have no issue with it.

Most veterinarians only have 2 courses in nutrition so do not really know much about it. I have never personally had an HD dog either, but that could have been the genes. I have also certainly not been the luckiest with health and gsd's, but never anything to do with diet.

The idea is to not let the dog have an accelerated growth rate, which can be from too much protein in the diet during the skeletal development and growth period. 

I am sure you will get a lot of feedback, and other may have different experiences. I think if you do some research on diet and your pup's genetic health history, you will find a good food to fits his/her needs.


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## rick smith (Dec 31, 2010)

Laney, i wouldn't worry too much if the pup is getting the nutrition a dog needs AND you don't over stress their developing bodies 

sounds like you may also be wondering if overfeeding may cause HD ... that hasn't been proven that i know of, but lots of theories that link the two that make sense

same goes for over feeding pups who will then grow too fast and the "bone plates" will weaken before developing, etc 
- canines have done ok for a few hundred thousand years feeding themselves before humans started feeding (and over feeding) them 
- since they've been designed, that's probably one reason why domestic dogs look weird as parts of their bodies develop at uneven rates compared to wild dogs who grow more proportionally

if you have a genetically designed dog that is way outside the normal canine body structure, i would worry (like a dog with larger than normal bone structure)

feed quality nutritious food and use common sense so the pup will grow at a normal rate

i keep it pretty simple, and i'm not very scientific :
1. top priority - a variety of quality food first and foremost
2. underfeed rather than stuff em. i like dogs that tend to be hungry all the time rather than have to spend down time digesting huge meals
...i'm probably doing it wrong, but i've been lucky in my limited experience


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

I have fed puppy food from several companies, the last one I used was the Solid Gold wolf cub, but my pups get kibble in the mornings and raw food in the evening. Once they get to 6 months, they are usually on 90% raw with other foods used for tracking such as biljac or chubs.

I have had the same rate of HD as is standard in our breed, about 20%


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

There are several inaccuracies in this:



Sally Crunkleton said:


> I personally have never fed "puppy" food. I would especially not feed the large breed types.


Large breed puppy food is specifically formulated to not be as calorie dense as standard puppy food, so it is actually more preferred. Also, if you have fed a food with a AAFCO label for "all life stages" (which many of the natural or holistic kibbles are), yes, you are actually feeding puppy food that adults can eat as well. Just because it says "adult" on the front, doesn't mean it's not all life stages on the back.



> Yes, growing puppies need more calories, but not a ton more protein. If a puppy food has about the same amount of protein as the adult formula, then I would have no issue with it.


Calories are for most breeds more important than protein for making sure they don't grow too fast.



> Most veterinarians only have 2 courses in nutrition so do not really know much about it.


And most owners only know what they have read on the internet.  (I have had considerably more training in nutrition than most vets...looking to be a board certified specialist some day).



> I have never personally had an HD dog either, but that could have been the genes. I have also certainly not been the luckiest with health and gsd's, but never anything to do with diet.
> 
> The idea is to not let the dog have an accelerated growth rate, which can be from too much protein in the diet during the skeletal development and growth period.
> 
> I am sure you will get a lot of feedback, and other may have different experiences. I think if you do some research on diet and your pup's genetic health history, you will find a good food to fits his/her needs.


No, again it's the calories that make the pup grow too quickly and stress their joints, not so much the protein levels. This is why manufacturers of grain free foods do not typically recommend feeding those foods until they are a year or more of age as they are more calorically dense.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

_"I personally have never fed "puppy" food. I would especially not feed the large breed types. ... Yes, growing puppies need more calories, but not a ton more protein. "_


This is a bit off-track.

The biggest factor in skeletal development of most large-breed puppies is total calories.

Adult food is sometimes recommended because it may (but remember, it may not!) have lower calories, but the calcium content is not likely to be appropriate. 

Caloric density is the central issue in too-rapid growth, a big factor in ortho problem development.

The 1974 study (on Great Danes) that indicted protein as being equal to caloric density as risk factors has been disproven many times since the 70s.

As Maren mentioned, ALS foods are not the same thing as adult foods.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

From Maren's post: _"Calories are for most breeds more important than protein for making sure they don't grow too fast. ..... it's the calories that make the pup grow too quickly and stress their joints, not so much the protein levels. This is why manufacturers of grain free foods do not typically recommend feeding those foods until they are a year or more of age as they are more calorically dense."_


This is what you will take away from authoritative large-breed puppy ortho research subsequent to the 1980s ..... or at least all that I've read.


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## Terrasita Cuffie (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, I disagree as to the amount of protein. For a GSD I don't want it more than 24-26% and my corgis are similar. To high on the protein and watch what happens to the feet and pasterns. Also, some puppies are more sensitive to the calcium phosphorus ratio than others. Even with other breeds, when my friends switched to raw or higher protein, the first thing that went was teh pasterns and feet.


Terrasita


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Terrasita Cuffie said:


> Well, I disagree as to the amount of protein. For a GSD I don't want it more than 24-26% and my corgis are similar. To high on the protein and watch what happens to the feet and pasterns. Also, some puppies are more sensitive to the calcium phosphorus ratio than others. Even with other breeds, when my friends switched to raw or higher protein, the first thing that went was teh pasterns and feet.
> 
> 
> Terrasita


 
I've seen this (feet and pastern development) in a few cases. Interesting.


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## Louise Jollyman (Jun 2, 2009)

What's wrong with the pasterns and feet? Mine are all fed raw from puppies, so I am going to need to check theirs


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

I know everyone has different experience, education, and opinions.

When I mentioned the puppy food, mainly the large breed formulas.....if it is a quality food- yes, it is suppose to regulate the extreme growth spurts....but, the dog food industry slaps those names on many brands and we think we are feeding a balanced, healthy diet.

The protein information I gave earlier was hammered into me by canine orthopedists, but they are not nutritionists, so who really knows.

I suppose the best advice is just read labels, and better a little thin than too fat. 

Also beware of bloat....certain kibble takes lots longer to expand than others=lots of swelling once swallowed=not good.


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## Laney Lejeune (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks to all. Sorry I have not responded before hand. The breeder was feeding her 4health puppy, on the back it says it is an "all life stages" food. I am not SUPER impressed at the ingredients and such, but I didnt want to switch her and give her another thing to make her stressed...plus when I found foods that I like, they are grain free (heard not to feed pups that from quite a number of people) and they are too high in protein and such.
I am currently looking for a decent food to switch her to now that I have had her for almost a month now.


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## Gerald Dunn (Sep 24, 2011)

so I'm going Friday to pick up a eight week old Mal, WHAT DO I FEED IT?????? yes I know, what it is on now but is that the best????????

help


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## Sally Crunkleton (Jan 13, 2012)

I am probably going to get hammered, but I have tried tons of foods (not all of them), just tons and I have been extremely happy with Wellness for about 3 yrs now. No more itching, no more loose stools, great energy, and coats so shiny baby oil couldn't make it glisten any better. Plus it doesn't swell to much larger once wet.

There are other good brands...just study the labels. I want meat, not meal for mine, and no corn or corn gluten. That just works for us so far.

I think Solid Gold is a pretty good food also.


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## Zakia Days (Mar 13, 2009)

Louise Jollyman said:


> What's wrong with the pasterns and feet? Mine are all fed raw from puppies, so I am going to need to check theirs


 
I think our comments are referring to excessively high protein amounts/ratios in commercial foods. Or, at least thats where my observations stem from. I don't think raw protein sources are considered excessive or problematic. I've read on several threads that raw feeders MUST be attentive the calcium/phosphorous ratios in developing puppies. It is crucial to their development.


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## leslie cassian (Jun 3, 2007)

I had a hard time keeping weight on my Mal as a puppy. At 6-7 months old I was up to 6 cups a day of Wellness. Despite having been a good food for my older dogs for years, it wasn't a good choice for my mal puppy, so I switched to a grain free/high protein food, which helped him look like a normal skinny mal, not a starving rescue case.

Solid Gold he did well on for about 6 weeks and then started to drop weight, even when I upped the amount I fed him. 

Feed what works for your puppy. Both Wellness and Solid Gold are what I would consider good quality foods, but for my dog, are not good choices. On the other hand, a calorie dense food like Evo or Orijen may be too much for your puppy.


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## Ben Thompson (May 2, 2009)

Laney Lejeune said:


> Ok, I just bought a GSD puppy about 3 weeks ago, she is 5 1/2 months. She is currently on a puppy food.
> 
> Years ago when my mom bred dogs, if she was keeping a puppy for herself, or raising a pup, she took the puppy off of puppy food very soon, and she had never raised a dog that had HD.
> 
> ...


 
I'm feeding Innova small bites adult and Purina dog chow. I give equal amounts of both. I put the two in seperate piles in his bowl and he goes for the dog chow everytime. I guess he didn't get the memo that junk dog food doesn't taste as good.


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