# Is it time for dogsports to go professional ??



## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

This is something that I have had a lot of conversations about over the years. Many people ask how much money I get for training in Mondio Ring.

My good friend Sandro wanted to take the sport pro. He said that it should be about showing it to the public, and making money at it.

We both thought that making money this way would maybe help get the younger guys interested in the sport so that we could have top quality decoys, not just old folks. LOL

Here is a video with some interviews from the 2008 Masters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGPVQiEPL8g&feature=related


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## andreas broqvist (Jun 2, 2009)

You nead to start National Dogsport asosiation = NDA


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

One of my training partners and club member is a international Schutzhund competitor it costs her 5 to 7 K to prep and compete for a international event.
I was talking to Lisa Gellar the night before last she and her husband Ron were sitting at the airport heading to Belgium to compete I am assuming they are footing the bill for there event not to mention I think Lisa brought in Fernando for the week prior for some tuning.
This is a pricy little hobby for the blue collar peeps.


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

The idea sounds like a double edged sword. Keep in mind what's become of similar ventures, and learn from their history.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

They have already whored up Sch, and I am told that they are already doing this with Mondio. 

WTF could possibly be worse than that ??


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

Having TWO whored up sports, sharing the same total market revenue, and dividing schools of thought, that erodes confidence _in both_ venues. The total opposite of "synergistic effect", similar to the showline/workingline split, the combined effect equaling _less than the total sum _of their parts.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

There are three whored up sports ! ! ! ! ! LOL

I think it would be just fine. People are going to go where the money is, that is the biggest problem I see. However, if we get into TV ratings and such, and have me as one of the "color commentators" I very much doubt that there will be much bullshit gotten away with. 

I think that the positives outweigh the negatives in an already ****ed up arena. 

I think that this would bring in a whole new level of backstabbing, but since it is already happening, and a lot, at least you would get paid.

Logistics has been my biggest downfall in Mondio. The lack of money has cut Buko's chances at getting a three dramatically, let alone my training mistakes.

Let me win money, and things will be drastically different. Buko is a hell of a lot more impressive than anything in Mondio right now. He has shown that he can score well on occasion. LOL

I really would like to say that I do Mondio and have people know what I am talking about. Enough of this hiding shit.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

you mean like dock diving, agility and those retriever sports on espn?
seems to me they are looking for goofy sports to fill their hours of time on multiple stations
and yet the only dogsports you see are "family friendly"

they will not broadcast dogs biting people on TV, too much risk of bad PR
you will never see it because of the peta type people in the world

hell dogsports is already going PC
all the local events around here are all about control and your dog not biting
hell the dog that wins is the dog with the least drive
that is what will become of your sport if it goes mainstream


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

I am with Mike. NA is not ready for such a thing. It would insult their delicate sensabilities.

Not only would you have to avoid any stick hits and tone the **it down for TV, it would also expose all the yahoos that hide in the dark shadows of the sport

I personally have a soft spot for amature athletes that work until they bleed and barf because they love it, even if that means being poor. Money complicates things. Come Olympic time I like to think of the lowley biathlete. Cool shit I think..but who else thinks so...and who the f*** would pay to see such a thing?

I am practically a commie from Canada....but pro sports are kinda gay.

Except for Hockey of course.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: they will not broadcast dogs biting people on TV, too much risk of bad PR
you will never see it because of the peta type people in the world

Says who ?? No one I know has ever went and pitched dog sports. Just think of the endless possibilities. All the cunty behavior and backstabbing would make an excellent reality show, and that is a worse case scenario.

Ever see the video of the Sch guy driving over the tracking fields ?? Having a big fit for whatever reason ?? ( I have no idea what that was all about, but saw the video)


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Schutzhund as a hobby is VERY expensive. Most do not have a “sponsor”; Gabor’s dogs that he has taken to the worlds are HOT dogs. We do not have an on site helper; that would be SWEEEEEEET. He does not do SCH as a job or a paid helper, but as a sport. This is a choice; albeit an expensive one.

Mike is right from a Mal perspective; and that can be fewer trials. And still that amount that Mike stated can be swayed by having to fly to an event (plus cost of dog flying, hc and USDA certificate for International, rent a car, hotel, etc. This past year, cost of flying a dog was $400, one way, to Europe.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: We do not have an on site helper; that would be SWEEEEEEET.

Well, winning a few major tournaments would help solve that problem. So would having a sponsor that would make it so that you would be able to go more often to bigger venues.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> They have already whored up Sch, and I am told that they are already doing this with Mondio.
> 
> WTF could possibly be worse than that ??


I don't know about worse. But to get some credibility to be considered a 'pro' venue. Insert whatever Dogsport here <> needs to get to the top of the amateur pile. So that IMHO it needs *Olympic *recognition. :-\":-\":-\" to be considered 'something' way before turning it into a quasi pro venue.

Face it the governing body of the olympics support Horse jumping, Biathalon, Tae-Kwon Do, Ping Pong and even Curling. Sure some sports or more visible but again some are not as visible as some of our favourite dogsports but again they also utilize livestock (Horses) and even sports that center around drinking alcohol. (Curling, As they are such fantastic athletes!) :lol: 

Ringsport and SchH in their basic forms have been around for over a century. They were at first a way to test breeding stock, and before the politically correct morons watered down most of the sports a 'true' test of a working dog. 

So why couldn't a dog sport ever be considered for the Olympics? Then which Dogsport would be considered? Would it be the dogsport with the biggest political clout? Either SchH or god forbid agility.

To me that is the way to push before saying we are going live on NBC or CBS Saturday afternoon at 16:00. Without Olympic creditation we'd be putting the cart before the pony vs being 'pro' IMHO.


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Jeff,

Not quite. Since schutzhund is not a business for us, it would not make sense to have an on site helper. And sponsoring from a company is not big for Sch. We do not have people buy dogs for us to compete with and pay our way 100%. Other types of sponsors. At least 2 of the dogs on the WUSV are like this.

I think for people to (not you or others on the board) think it is not much to travel (training and for event) and compete - more of an education. But, it is our choice

We do not complain about the $$ spent; we go into this with eyes wide open with our own dogs. With Marina, it is great to see how well she has done with a HOT dog (Mal) at top events.


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## tracey schneider (May 7, 2008)

I personally DO think the sports should be part of the Olympics........ I mean we have OTHER animal related events why not? It is global and I would think a bunch of sponsors from teh "pet industry" and would shed a positive light..... oops just saw someone posted the same thing......ok then I agree!! 

t


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## Tamara McIntosh (Jul 14, 2009)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: they will not broadcast dogs biting people on TV, too much risk of bad PR
> you will never see it because of the peta type people in the world
> 
> Says who ?? No one I know has ever went and pitched dog sports. Just think of the endless possibilities. All the cunty behavior and backstabbing would make an excellent reality show, and that is a worse case scenario.


Top Dogs company out of Calgary, Ab produced several bitework television shows for Animal Planet. They have 2 french ring episodes, 2 sch episodes and I think one or two Police Dog Championships. These programs garnered much interest and I have had quite a few people ask me about protection sports as a result of seeing those shows. The program itself was incredibly well rounded featuring agiliy, conformation, flyball, disc dog, dock dog, sled dog, obedience, etc programs.

There also have been a "reality" TV show about dog training, dog grooming and conformation dogs.

Someone should pitch a Dog TSN idea.

Tamara McIntosh


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Tamara McIntosh said:


> Top Dogs company out of Calgary, Ab produced several bitework television shows for Animal Planet. They have 2 french ring episodes, 2 sch episodes and I think one or two Police Dog Championships. These programs garnered much interest and I have had quite a few people ask me about protection sports as a result of seeing those shows. The program itself was incredibly well rounded featuring agiliy, conformation, flyball, disc dog, dock dog, sled dog, obedience, etc programs.
> 
> There also have been a "reality" TV show about dog training, dog grooming and conformation dogs.
> 
> ...



Actually the first time I heard of dogsports was on TV. I was just a kid, it was a weekend, and my dad called me into the den with a "Jen you have to see this".

It must have been FR because I remember the call off and object guard (using a basket), though my dad thought it was police related, because what other people would do that#-o

It was the control that first impressed me, I didn't have an opinion on the bitey part at the time. 

I have never seen it on TV since...that was likely at least 15 years ago.

I do think there is a market....I just don't think it is very big. People think I am freakin nuts for even being interested in owning a GSD or Mal let alone being interested in dogsports.

Of course I don't get Animal Planet](*,) Have they already aired?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Jennifer Coulter said:


> Of course I don't get Animal Planet](*,) Have they already aired?


http://www.topdogstv.com/

Sadly Top Dogs has gone into syndication and are no longer taping any new episodes, just the reruns on animal planet which are from 2002-2006 I understand. As I contacted them by phone about taping our Ringsport competition last year. Really nice people they were CBC employees who went out on their own and had a good run. I've seen a few episodes the police competitions, Ringsport etc. I think the wildest was the Jack Russell racing OMG!!! Was that ever fun! The finish line was a hole in the wall where only one of the jacks could get through as you can imagine it was mayhem! :lol: They all had muzzles on or else it would've been bloodsport!


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

I think you would need an audience before anything could go professional.


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I think you would need an audience before anything could go professional.


Oh snap :mrgreen:

Good point.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

I can see the uniforms with sponser patches all over them like Nascar. ...It would never work in this country.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> I think you would need an audience before anything could go professional.


That's why us amateurs should make a run at getting Olympic creditation at one point for a few popular worthy dog sports. 

Like look at the Biathalon they get 10s of thousands of dollars in funding but it is so not mainstream, even less than a sport like SchH where most anyone could compete. Biathalon athletes need to train fulltime so in essence they are amateurs getting paid to follow that dream. Even Olympic hockey or basketball now that it is made up of all 'pro' players are still sucking on the government tit and that is still not money wasted in the grand scheme of a countries pride.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

if it just needs to be pitched then why are all the sissy dogsports on TV all the time
like agility, retrieving dock diving, conformation
and all the biting dogsports not on TV

do you honestly think, just no one saw them yet?

really? ....really?


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Mike Lauer said:


> if it just needs to be pitched then why are all the sissy dogsports on TV all the time
> like agility, retrieving dock diving, conformation
> and all the biting dogsports not on TV
> 
> ...


It's all dog Politics! :^o Face it the conformists that run the gamut of the AKC etc have the cash to bang their own drum. In NA people who do protection based sports don't have that type of dough behind them. 

But really whats any different than bite work vs boxing or other full contact sports? There is a lot missed oppurtunities out there.


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## Gerry Grimwood (Apr 2, 2007)

Geoff Empey said:


> But really whats any different than bite work vs boxing or other full contact sports?


More often than not, if there is an injury it will be to the dog.

Decoy never has a face covered in blood.

No cauliflower ears.

No ring girls.


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## Geoff Empey (Jan 8, 2008)

Tell that to our decoy that just had his shoulder ripped from his socket. We tried to reset on the field but he had to go to emerg to have it relocated and the dog didn't even catch him that bad. FYI the rules are always slanted in favour of the dogs. 

You are right No cauliflower ears. 

But the Ringsport girls ... Oh my!!!! :-\":-\":-\"


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## Mike Scheiber (Feb 17, 2008)

Sue DiCero said:


> We do not complain about the $$ spent; we go into this with eyes wide open with our own dogs. With Marina, it is great to see how well she has done with a HOT dog (Mal) at top events.


And Marina dosent but there is a hefty amount of frustration of not being able to pursue all the opportunities presented to her.
I can say this with most certainty she would have been all over a Masters Tournament or something like it had it happened this year.


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## Sheldon Little (Aug 26, 2009)

Gerry Grimwood said:


> More often than not, if there is an injury it will be to the dog.
> 
> Decoy never has a face covered in blood.
> 
> ...


Thats a good point... dammit I think we should get ring girls!


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## Daryl Ehret (Apr 4, 2006)

The postal service dropped its sponsorship of Lance Armstrong. How about a little federal funding with a decoy dressed as a mailman?


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: 
I can say this with most certainty she would have been all over a Masters Tournament or something like it had it happened this year.

There was a Masters this year. That is the point more than TV shows and stuff. If there was a cash prize it would help towards all the other stuff people are trying to do.

Ringsport needs to be an Olympic event, but sadly, I am not sure that the powers to be are not even discussing something like this.

I just like the idea that if we actually worked at it, we could get something accomplished and it would take away the advantage that the people with money have and even up the playing field.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gerry Grimwood 
I think you would need an audience before anything could go professional.

You have no idea the lengths that I have seen people go to to make sure that it is not know about. You would think it was the other way. The old TD about had a ****ing cow when we didn't want to have the trial at her place.

She was actually angry about it. I had a bunch of people that wanted to come out and take a look, but she insisted that it be at her ranch, which is two and a half hours from Denver. 

I had gotten to the point where I didn't give a **** anymore, as these old ladies just ****ing wear on you and wear on you until they get their way. 

I think that Mondio and French ring are good spectator sports. Hell look at baseball. WHata crock of shit that sport is to watch. I would think we would at least have a small chance.


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## nathan cram (Jun 9, 2008)

there would be plus for aussies if some thing like ringsport or sch gets into the olympics theymight relax our dog laws to let people compete in it


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Stop saying Sch, as all my non dog friends think those people have sticks up their asses. Gotta go ringstyle.


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## nathan cram (Jun 9, 2008)

agree but i couldnt be bothered remb how its spelt 

but i have come to the conclusion that it depends on how they prononce it
is to how far the stick gone lol


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

WOW very observant. I have noticed that as well.


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## todd pavlus (Apr 30, 2008)

AS a professional sport it would be the only one where men and women competed together. Or would it be seperate like all othe sports?


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## Jennifer Coulter (Sep 18, 2007)

todd pavlus said:


> AS a professional sport it would be the only one where men and women competed together. Or would it be seperate like all othe sports?


Men and women compete together in equestrian as well. I guess that is not really a professional sport.

I am sure Jeff won't dissapoint and will make a lovely comment about women in dogsports now......


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## Sue DiCero (Sep 2, 2006)

Jeff,

The Masters was cancelled this year, due to lack of interest. Cost of getting there, the no qualifier aspect and the $400 entry fee probably contributed to that.


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

Honestly dog sport people must a) not have money and b) not be tech people
because the web sites suck
information is very hard to find and not updated well
most of them have last years stuff still first page and nothing more

hell, I am going to a trail this weekend to watch
the location was NO WHERE to be found
I had to get the address from a friend of a friend who was competing through email

USA listed the trial and club, which has no website but no address anywhere
its hard to attend even if you are in the circle of people who should know


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Mike, that is exactly why dogsports in the US blow chunks. The inability to organize a simple trial is applauded as if they settled all the UN difficulties in one session.

The USMRA website is so ****ing boring, but if you were to ask about it, all you get is "well she has dial up"

WHAT ???

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

At least they have lots of money in the bank. God forbid they listen to WHY they are idiots.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

QUote: 
The Masters was cancelled this year, due to lack of interest. Cost of getting there, the no qualifier aspect and the $400 entry fee probably contributed to that.

That is too bad, I think that would of been something good.


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## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Mike Lauer said:


> Honestly dog sport people must a) not have money and b) not be tech people
> because the web sites suck
> information is very hard to find and not updated well
> most of them have last years stuff still first page and nothing more
> ...


I have recently been honored with the task of managing the American Ringsport Fedration "ARF" website.

http://frenchringsport.com/

If you have any comments or suggestions I will gladly welcome them.
At present when we have a trial or seminar the dates, locations and contact information are provided. Results and videos are posted as soon as possible.

You can see our videos on Youtube by searching for "arfvids"
Here is a link already posted here of an upcoming French Ring Decoy Seminar with the number one ranked LVL III decoy in France Jimmy Vanhove

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmAL0FDjYfE

Your topic is spot on if dog sports are to grow access to information is the key it is all about the numbers.


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## Kadi Thingvall (Jan 22, 2007)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Stop saying Sch, as all my non dog friends think those people have sticks up their asses. Gotta go ringstyle.


LOL I actually think Schutzhund would be the best choice for this, simply because it has the most participants world wide. If you are going to get a sport into the Olympics, the more countries already doing that sport the better. Mondio Ring would be the second choice IMO because although the participant numbers are much smaller, I think it's in a wider selection of countries then FR or BR. It's also probably the best spectator sport of the bunch for the average Joe, they may not have a clue what they are watching but the costumes, field setup, themes, etc would get there attention.


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## Don Turnipseed (Oct 8, 2006)

Olympic is non profit. You want to see good dogs coming out in the near future....offer cash prizes.


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## Craig Wood (Dec 9, 2008)

Kadi Thingvall said:


> LOL I actually think Schutzhund would be the best choice for this, simply because it has the most participants world wide. If you are going to get a sport into the Olympics, the more countries already doing that sport the better. Mondio Ring would be the second choice IMO because although the participant numbers are much smaller, I think it's in a wider selection of countries then FR or BR. It's also probably the best spectator sport of the bunch for the average Joe, they may not have a clue what they are watching but the costumes, field setup, themes, etc would get there attention.


Great point Kadi, also I wonder if the true numbers for all dog sports world wide have ever been compiled.
Numbers don't lie that is why the people that would eventually say yea or nea to such an idea would be looking at those types of numbers.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

A lot of people don't continue to train when they realize it is a part time job on top of their other job. Money would help motivate them. The other thing is there are way too few, and way to spread out clubs in a lot of areas.


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## Laura Bollschweiler (Apr 25, 2008)

Sue DiCero said:


> Jeff,
> 
> The Masters was cancelled this year, due to lack of interest. Cost of getting there, the no qualifier aspect and the $400 entry fee probably contributed to that.


I think it was supposed to be the Players this year, not the Masters. The Players would have all breeds eligible, not just GSD, and not be invitational. The only qualifier would be a 270 in any trial that year. I think they'd have better luck if they only did it every three or four years, not tried to make it a yearly event. Keep it special with different dogs/handlers each time and go back to invitational.

This thread is funny to me because the agility people have been talking about "going pro" and/or making agility an Olympic sport for years. It's the same conversation, but with biting. Oh, excuse me, gripping.

There is at least one agility competition that has cash prizes, and it's heavily attended. That's run by a private sanctioning body that is owned by one person, if I remember correctly. (Side note: I lost all respect for that venue when they did their big Cynosports of dog sports or whatever in AZ and has HSUS as their donation recipient. I wondered if they served burgers that year.)

Laura


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## Mike Lauer (Jul 26, 2009)

> If you have any comments or suggestions I will gladly welcome them.


one of the best sites i have seen for sure
that said I couldn't find an address for the decoy training event, just a phone number for the club
I did google map the town the club is in, kinda long drive for me


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## Tim Lynam (Jun 12, 2009)

Good thing Jimmy Vanhove doesn't have Mike Lauer's attitude! Of course, Jimmy isn't a sissy like Mike... He's willing to fly transoceanic just to teach a bunch of strangers and further the sport.


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## Edward Egan (Mar 4, 2009)

Speaking of dog sport websites that suck, WTF is with Sch USA site??? 

It looks like it's from the 70's, ok, ok, Al Gore hadn't invented the Internet until the 80's, my bad!


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## James Downey (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> They have already whored up Sch, and I am told that they are already doing this with Mondio.
> 
> WTF could possibly be worse than that ??


 
Jeff, you are Mondio!


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## Richard Rutt (May 14, 2009)

Sorry Mike,
My fault for not giving that info to Craig, I just thought that anyone interested would email me. here are some links with location and local hotels.
http://arfcanines.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21&sid=299ffc830c1f7093468f2bc5fb375633#p25

http://www.ringsportforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote: Jeff, you are Mondio!

Yes, isn't that just ****ing awesome. Whore it down so that Jeff looks like an idiot. Great. Grand. Fine.

It is bad enough they call the guys that I train with every week to see if they will go and train at the other club, now I get this.

Luckily, they treated all of them like shit, so I have no worries about not having a decoy. LOL


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