# hardest biting dogs



## andrew kurtowicz

im really sick of getting into a debate with people with "bull breeds" that insist that there dogs because of there shear size can bite harder than any popular working breed(mali,dutchie,german shep.) i want to hear it from people who have caught and worked many different breeds and see what there thoughts are


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## Jeff Oehlsen

It is not the breed it is the individual dog. There you go, just take that to the bull breed people and laugh at them.


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## andrew kurtowicz

they dont seem to understand that... they just search you tube for these videos of bull breeds to justify their ignorance. but they wont get in the suit and take bites from my 18 month old mali...lol


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Bulldog people have tiny weenies. LOL


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## andrew kurtowicz

and apparently no logic


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## brad robert

didnt a nat geo documentary show that is was proportional to head size? which i personally dont believe is totally accurate.


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## Colin Chin

Correct me if I am wrong here. General rule is that Molossers breed has stronger bite ?


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## Shane Carter

Andrew and Jeff, I can only speak for myself when I say that herders occupy many of my top ten including the top spot. However just as many Bully Breed dogs are on the list as well. 
Speed X Weight = Power 
Mal-30mph X 65 lbs = one hard hitting SOB. 
AB- 20mph X 90lbs = one hard hitting SOB. 

Just my experience. 
I am a Bully Breed guy to the bone, I think Jeff you know that.LOL
Shane


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## mike suttle

The truth is this. A very large Bulldog with a huge musclular head CAN bite harder than most Malis or GSDs. He CAN, but he WONT. If you give a big bulldog a meaty leg bone from a Hippo, he can crush it because he wants to bite it, if you give the same leg bone to any Mali it will take him longer to break it.
But that same Mali will bite much harder on a suit than that Bulldog because the Mali really wants to be there biting and the Bulldog likely does not.
The bottom line is this....yes a Bulldog has the tools to bite extremely hard, but he does not have the heart and desire to bring that power to the man.
A smaller Mali bites with 100% of what he has and a larger stronger Bulldog bites with about 40% of what he has when he is fighting a man that he does not really want to be fighting to begin with.


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## David Frost

In my experience, if it's a full bite and the teeth are sunk to the gum line, it really doesn't make all that much difference in actual applications. 

DFrost


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## Barrie Kirkland

mike suttle said:


> The truth is this. A very large Bulldog with a huge musclular head CAN bite harder than most Malis or GSDs. He CAN, but he WONT. If you give a big bulldog a meaty leg bone from a Hippo, he can crush it because he wants to bite it, if you give the same leg bone to any Mali it will take him longer to break it.
> But that same Mali will bite much harder on a suit than that Bulldog because the Mali really wants to be there biting and the Bulldog likely does not.
> The bottom line is this....yes a Bulldog has the tools to bite extremely hard, but he does not have the heart and desire to bring that power to the man.
> A smaller Mali bites with 100% of what he has and a larger stronger Bulldog bites with about 40% of what he has when he is fighting a man that he does not really want to be fighting to begin with.



i would agree with this, there are exceptions to this..i have worked quite a few bulldogs only a handfull had truely impressed me with their sheer determination to take the fight to the helper...


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## Shane Carter

As far as biting harder instead of hitting harder, I would have to say the Mali people are looking for more of genetic full bite and even breed for that. The dogs will naturally have a harder bite if they where bred with full bites in mind. That only lends itself to reason. Most of the mali people I know can tell you what lines throw geneticly full bites, which lines can bring more power in the entries, which lines are throw harder dogs, which lines trow dogs more geared for sport, etc... I know that most AB people would look at a dog throwing a full bite last when trying to breed their dog. Most of us I am sad to say are just amazed that our dogs bite and want to show and tell everyone in the world. Some of us who have some success and are not lost in Bully Breed fantasy land like I stated before in another post are trying to look at that and really produce better biting and performing dogs all around. This again goes back to the AB being too new of a dog to the sport work to even have lines to go to and breed off of that will throw consistent workers. As well as the owners being too new to the game as well, myself included. 
As far as biting hard the dogs where bred to fight other animals so yes like Mike said they can bite hard and tend to do that the best when life threatned. Like on a hog or cattle. Simple truth of the matter. That was the testing that the dogs had to pass to be bred and for many people still is. 

JMHO, they most def don't have to be yours.
Shane/Hankdad


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## mike suttle

Hey Shane,
I agree with you. I think in a dog fight, or when killing another animal the Bulldog bites WAY harder than a GSD, Mali, or Dutchie, because he wants to be there fighting for his life and he gives everything he has, and like I said in the earlier post they CAN bite harderm but when working on a man they DONT bite harder.....Bulldogs are wierd that way, they want to fight for their lives with animals, but do not want to fight with a man with the same intensity. If you bulldog breeders find a way to breed a bulldog that has the same desire to fight and kill a man as it does a hog or another dog, then I think people will have to take the breed serious, hell i may even own one then. Of course they will also have to track, have excellent health, speed, agility, environmental nerves, super hunt drive, they will have to retrieve iron, and they will have to have excellent endurance.


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## Timothy Saunders

I have taken bite from many breeds in different suits. The hardest I have been bitten is buy a giant schnauzer.I was wearing a belgian ring suit and the arms are very heavily padded. In a suit that was to big I might add. I think that mike and the person that was talking about the size if the skull are correct.


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## Colin Chin

Hi Mike,
Why does the bulldog not interested to bite the man to begin with ? Thanks.


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## mike suttle

Timothy Saunders said:


> I have taken bite from many breeds in different suits. The hardest I have been bitten is buy a giant schnauzer.I was wearing a belgian ring suit and the arms are very heavily padded. In a suit that was to big I might add. I think that mike and the person that was talking about the size if the skull are correct.


Armins old Schnauzer certainly bites very hard, he will really punish you in a suit. That dog has a strong desire to kill you and he bites with everything he has.:twisted:


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## mike suttle

Colin Chin said:


> Hi Mike,
> Why does the bulldog not interested to bite the man to begin with ? Thanks.


For the same reason they dont tree ***** or herd sheep very well......they have not been bred for it and were never intended to be used for it.


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## andrew kurtowicz

i just cant take it when people say that their presa canario, cane corso, american bulldog...etc. are "WORKING DOGS" my idea of a working dog is the total package social and neutral of the field but a MONSTER on the field and will stay that way for 12-15 years with non-stop drive in everything they do not a dog that needs an oxygen tankto walk to the mail box !!!!!!!


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## Howard Gaines III

Timothy Saunders said:


> I have taken bite from many breeds in different suits. The hardest I have been bitten is buy a giant schnauzer.I was wearing a belgian ring suit and the arms are very heavily padded. In a suit that was to big I might add. I think that mike and the person that was talking about the size if the skull are correct.


 Dogs with teeth bite the hardest! I owned a GSN and he did bite hard, but it is still an individual thing...If you have no power behind the grip, it's like a sandwhich without meat!=;


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## Christopher Smith

I think that dogs that are the most pissed-off or the the most scared bite the hardest.


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## Stelios Sdrolias

andrew kurtowicz said:


> i just cant take it when people say that their presa canario, cane corso, american bulldog...etc. are "WORKING DOGS" my idea of a working dog is the total package social and neutral of the field but a MONSTER on the field and will stay that way for 12-15 years with non-stop drive in everything they do not a dog that needs an oxygen tankto walk to the mail box !!!!!!!



So, the only real athletes are 120lbs gymnasts/or LD runners who participate in at least 3 Olympic Games..

Work is defined by man , not by dog..If your type of work is sport then by all means go for a Mali.
In my line of work i need a different dog..And it REALLY gets the job done.

Your opinion ,although respected, is hugely narrow-minded.

There are presas and Am.bulldogs that do excellent in sports.. Google "De La Arena presas" and "Chiva's American Bulldogs" and you 'll get the point.


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## kristin tresidder

andrew kurtowicz said:


> i just cant take it when people say that their presa canario, cane corso, american bulldog...etc. are "WORKING DOGS" my idea of a working dog is the total package social and neutral of the field but a MONSTER on the field and will stay that way for 12-15 years with non-stop drive in everything they do not a dog that needs an oxygen tankto walk to the mail box !!!!!!!



that must be because you don't need (quite a bit more) endurance (than a SCHH trial broken up into three parts with nice rest periods between each exercise) to do the 'work' that those dogs were originally bred for? :-\"


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I would love to see the bulldogs do better, but then what ?? I am not sure that in ten years of intense breeding to make a bulldog work the way I would want them to work, that anyone could deal with them.

I looked for and bred for the Uber Rott, and was at a loss as to who to sell them to. 

That is the biggest thing to think about, you get a bulldog that has no problems fighting and killing a human, and the breed will be banned in a second.

So, really, there is no point to doing so. The inhibition to bite a human is there, and there for a reason. I have seen pretty good bulldogs pull their owners all over because they had to pee for Christs sake. Can you imagine these same idiots with dogs that are going for the helper like that ?? Great. Can't wait......Oh wait, they ARE too stupid to produce this animal. LOL Thank God.


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## andrew kurtowicz

what im saying is that a working dog gives his all in everything he does and i dont consider schutzhund a sport. schutzhund has become more of an "akc" style activity. schutzhund is nothing like what it was when it was developed. a lot of exercises have been changed or removed so they can title more dogs and different breeds (my opinion). that is what has feed into peoples minds that almost any breed can be a "working" dog. why dont you see bully breeds at the highest levels of dog sport (knpv,ring) ????
cause they dont have all the tools to do the whole job yea they might bite the sleeve and heel nice but do they really want and love to be working ??????


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## Matt Grosch

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I would love to see the bulldogs do better, but then what ?? I am not sure that in ten years of intense breeding to make a bulldog work the way I would want them to work, that anyone could deal with them.
> 
> I looked for and bred for the Uber Rott, and was at a loss as to who to sell them to.
> 
> That is the biggest thing to think about, you get a bulldog that has no problems fighting and killing a human, and the breed will be banned in a second.
> 
> So, really, there is no point to doing so. The inhibition to bite a human is there, and there for a reason. I have seen pretty good bulldogs pull their owners all over because they had to pee for Christs sake. Can you imagine these same idiots with dogs that are going for the helper like that ?? Great. Can't wait......Oh wait, they ARE too stupid to produce this animal. LOL Thank God.




Not sure if it is related or not, but I have noticed an increase in maulings/killings by AB's at least in the Phx area, in the last 5 years or so. Popularity, backyard breeders, and irresponsible owners......?


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## kristin tresidder

andrew kurtowicz said:


> why dont you see bully breeds at the highest levels of dog sport (knpv,ring) ????


well, only shepherds can compete in KNPV, that might be one reason you don't see the "bullies" in that sport. but anyway, when you compare the percentages of people that breed &/or buy "bullies" for bitesports to the percentages of people that breed and/or buy "furries" for bitesports, is it really that surprising that a higher percentage of "furries" are seen participating in bitesports than "bullies?" i shouldn't think so. 
what i can't understand is why it's so offensive to some when a person dares to work an off breed, and then, if they happen to either a) just plain enjoy it, or b) have a dog that does well at the sport, (_and there have been some "bullies" of the different breeds that have done well in the bitesports_) and want to talk about it, then all hell breaks loose, and it becomes necessary to run them down as fast as possible.


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## steve davis

if off breeds can do the work then thats great, more power to them. i just dont see bully breeds or any other off breed takeing over the sport and working dog world. IF, and thats a BIG IF there is going to be any off breed that will make it to the top of the work/sport world in the future i would have to go with the DP. but for now i just dont see anthing else takeing over the hurders.


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## Matt Grosch

What is a DP?


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## Barrie Kirkland

double penetration


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## Thomas Barriano

Barrie Kirkland said:


> double penetration


You've been watching too much Porn Barrie 

I think he meant Donovan Pinscher?


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## Matt Grosch

From what I gathered, isnt he one guy basically trying to re-create the whole KNPV breeding history?


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## Matt Grosch

Barrie Kirkland said:


> double penetration





I walked right into that (ouch).........thought I was the only twisted one and wouldnt have to worry about it among all the respectable people here..


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## Barrie Kirkland

Thomas Barriano said:


> You've been watching too much Porn Barrie
> 
> I think he meant Donovan Pinscher?



ah right donovan pinscher.. a dont know what they are dog


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## Timothy Saunders

Jeff that is a great point. the mastiffs that I have seen turned on are normally dangerous.. If you have trouble get a 80lb mal off the bite . it is almost impossible to get a 130lbs presa off


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## andreas broqvist

KNPV is open to al dogs. If your dog can do it, and you do not have a criminal recod, Plus you hvae to live in the netherlands if im not mistaken. Then your dog can compete.

DPs on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiJbZsVIA74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2FuZmoPF18


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## Howard Gaines III

Christopher Smith said:


> I think that dogs that are the most pissed-off or the the most scared bite the hardest.


Chris not so. This is a fear biter and they avoid many times the in deep encounters with the human. Fear biters also do an "in and out" bite. Pissed dogs maybe, but their head better be in the game and be willing to back up the bite threat!


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## Howard Gaines III

Barrie Kirkland said:


> ah right donovan pinscher.. a dont know what they are dog


 Barrie it just goes to show how LITTLE you know! The legendary Donovan Pinscher is a bad a$$ animal and seldom seen. And to think I held your opinions in such HIGH regard! SON!!! :twisted:


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## steve davis

Barrie Kirkland said:


> double penetration


 
:lol:



Thomas Barriano said:


> You've been watching too much Porn Barrie
> 
> I think he meant Donovan Pinscher?


yes, donovan pincher


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## Barrie Kirkland

Howard Gaines III said:


> Barrie it just goes to show how LITTLE you know! The legendary Donovan Pinscher is a bad a$$ animal and seldom seen. And to think I held your opinions in such HIGH regard! SON!!! :twisted:



M'bad haha

i sorry i didnt recognise the ferocity of this animal


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## Gillian Schuler

Kristen Tressider said:

_what i can't understand is why it's so offensive to some when a person dares to work an off breed, and then, if they happen to either a) just plain enjoy it, or b) have a dog that does well at the sport, (and there have been some "bullies" of the different breeds that have done well in the bitesports) and want to talk about it, then all hell breaks loose, and it becomes necessary to run them down as fast as possible._

I symphasize with you. A lot of decoys are loathe to work heavy off-breeds, partly because they're worried about the aggression and partly it's a fitness issue, I guess. A number of GSD / Dobermann people disliked / were apprehensive of our Fila. He was far more controlled and balanced than some of their dogs though!!

We worked our Fila once or twice. Took a while to get him going but then the aggression came out. However, after bitework was over, he was down to normal pretty quickly. It wasn't our main aim for him so we didn't pursue it. Tracking and search square work were his areas.

BTW, the FCI currently recognises the following "working breeds" "Gebrauchshunde":

Es gibt derzeit neun von der FCI anerkannte Gebrauchshunderassen: Dobermann, Deutscher Schäferhund, Rottweiler, Airedale Terrier, Hovawart, Riesenschnauzer, Malinois, Bouvier, Boxer


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## Jennifer Marshall

As the owner of an AB that is training for Mondio I find this discussion greatly amusing. I don't care if my dog bites harder than a mal or even a poodle. If he bites when, where, and how he is asked that is all I care about. I don't want an AB for "personal protection." I don't want ANY dog for "personal protection" - thats what I have weapons in my home for. I want a stable, social, driven dog that can title in my chosen sport of Mondioring. 

I'm an AB "fanatic" but I'm not an idiot. 

I'm curious why so many people think that because a breed won't be "the top breed" in a sport that it isn't worth training or breeding them to compete in that sport? What's it to you if someone has an offbreed? You have a "superior" dog so stop nit picking and train it.

When I train my dog I don't think about him beating every herder on the field, I think about my dog, and my training. I train for the exercises - using his drive and temperament to attempt perfecting each task he must complete. I don't train to make him into a mal I saw a video of on youtube, or a gsd I heard about from a friend. 

Oh bulldogs are not like Malinois. Wow. What a thought. I never would have come up with that one on my own, I'm so glad I have hundreds of people to tell me. Did it ever occur to anyone that I don't want my bulldog to be a malinois? If I had a malinois I would want it to be like a malinois, but I don't. I have a bulldog. I chose to have one because I like the breed and feel that it is capable of doing many things asked of it. Including Mondioring.

I don't care about having a dog that wants to eat people. I personally don't want to train a dog that wants to eat people and try to make it into a sport dog. If I wanted a dog that I felt would bite someone in a bad situation, then I would want a dog like that, and I would train for that.

My almost 14 month old AB LOVES people. Very social, very confident, very goofy and yes, he is a clown. I like him this way. If he wanted to chomp on everyone all the time I'd consider it a fault.

Just my .02....


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## Howard Gaines III

All is forgiven, now show me the Bull Massives. Bullies rule in the circle of clown acts!!!:mrgreen:


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## David Frost

Jennifer Marshall said:


> I don't care if my dog bites harder than a mal or even a poodle. If he bites when, where, and how he is asked that is all I care about. .



Personally, I think it's a .02 well spent. I couldn't agree with you more. The dogs I select I do so for the same reason. Not how hard they will bite, but if they will, when told and keep doing until I tell them not too. 

I think the rest is just; "mines bigger than yours". Well figuratively speaking of course.

DFrost


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## steve davis

Jennifer Marshall said:


> If he wanted to chomp on everyone all the time I'd consider it a fault.


that would actually be a breed fault....which is why it baffels me that people insist on training there AB's, APBT's, etc to bite human beings whether it be sport or anything else. 

i went to a schH club last week and it was made up of a majority of pitt bulls and one bull dog. i loved how they were explaining to me that the reason pitt bulls have such a bad rap (the county this club belongs to is trying to ban ABPT's) was bc ppl dont know how to use them...figuratively speaking, if they were useing them they way that there purpose was intended to be used, they would all be in jail....


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## Kyle Sprag

steve davis said:


> that would actually be a breed fault....which is why it baffels me that people insist on training there AB's, APBT's, etc to bite human beings whether it be sport or anything else.
> 
> i went to a schH club last week and it was made up of a majority of pitt bulls and one bull dog. i loved how they were explaining to me that the reason pitt bulls have such a bad rap (the county this club belongs to is trying to ban ABPT's) was bc ppl dont know how to use them...figuratively speaking, if they were useing them they way that there purpose was intended to be used, they would all be in jail....


 
Why do you think it is a "breed fault"?


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## steve davis

Kyle Sprag said:


> Why do you think it is a "breed fault"?


 
sorry i shouldnt speak for the AB because they were originally used as property gaurdians.

from what i've read before it was a breed fault for a pitt bull to be human aggressive. a pitt bull owner should be able to walk into a fighting ring without being bitten along with baiting of bulls, bears, etc. that are now illegal now. hence why you would go to prison for useing them for what they were designed to do.


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## Michael Pulford

The bottom line is malinois bite harder more constitantly than any breed out there i have worked alot of dogs and i have owned alot of dogs and the malinois is at the top of the the list of the ones that bite the hardest....sure you will get a really nice bully breed and a really nice GSD once in a while but most of the scars on my body are left from malinois...and the only way to realy feel the bite is in a suit....where you can feel the damage that they are doing.....


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## Kyle Sprag

steve davis said:


> sorry i shouldnt speak for the AB because they were originally used as property gaurdians.
> 
> from what i've read before it was a breed fault for a pitt bull to be human aggressive. a pitt bull owner should be able to walk into a fighting ring without being bitten along with baiting of bulls, bears, etc. that are now illegal now. hence why you would go to prison for useing them for what they were designed to do.


 
I have heard and read stuff both ways, kinda like if the dog could win who cares if he will bite a man.


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## Don Turnipseed

Christopher Smith said:


> I think that dogs that are the most pissed-off or the the most scared bite the hardest.


Pissed of maybe but if they are scared they don't get into it all the way because they want to be able to back out ....quick. I see this with bad game all the time. The dogs that are not sure about what is going to happen seldom have good full grips....so they can bail quick if it gets too rough. Then there are those that have a great full grip and are not planning to back out until the game or they are dead. I have heard from several sources, but don't kinow if ot its true, that terriers have one of the hardest "natural" bites, lb for lb, in the dog world. Maybe because if it is worth biting, it is worth killing in their mind.


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## Jerry Lyda

My Boston, Doodle Bug, bit my GSD, Bentley, under the chin. Bentley tried to shake Doodle off but Doodle would not turn loose until Doodles jaw broke in two places. The lower jaw was just hanging. Pins and wires. The next day Doodle lifted his leg on Bentley while Bentley was in his crate. Don I believe you are right, pound for pound Terriers are tufffffff. Ten feet tall and bullet proof.


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## Jennifer Marshall

Steve, ABs were originally intended to be used at property guardians, as you stated. I don't think it was a goal for them to be generally aggressive, though. The AB should be a very confident dog that doesn't require a big show to "keep people away". People tend to really like that SchH style bark and hold and think that in order for a dog to be taken seriously it must have that kind of display. 

I don't require that in my dogs. Rotts and Bully breed/molossers are stare-down dogs. Anyone who has ever been on the recieving end of this "look" knows what I am talking about. They have a very intense stare when something catches their attention. The confidence level shows itself in that the dog doesn't need to show its teeth and yell "Hey, You!!! I SEE YOU! GIT!" The look is usually enough. 

Not saying that vocalization is a bad thing - it isn't. I just personally do not require a dog to have a natural tendency towards that sort of threat display. I do teach a bark on command, though.

The fault with an AB would be a dog that is just aggressive in general. A dog that doesn't require a reason to be aggressive such as a threat to itself, rank(with limits), territory or pack, etc. A dog that just defaults to aggression towards anyone or anything. These dogs have their place but IMO it is not in the AB gene pool. Blind aggression is a fault in an AB.

When it comes to the AB as a "working" breed, I get a little irritated with people's statements that they are hopeless or they have never seen a good AB. Is that supposed to be the end all be all for the breed, that YOU have never seen a good one being worked? It's a numbers game, ladies and gentlemen.

A vast majority of people that own an AB are NOT working/sport people. An unfortunate number of ABs are also bred without rhyme or reason aside from making the owner money. So Yes, most ABs can't do sport work and the ones who can might not get into the hands of someone that can or will do anything about that potential. It is discussions about bully breeds where everyone has nothing but bad things to say that keeps people from trying. 

How about giving some support because a dog owner decided to do more than teach their dog to sit for its food? I have more respect for people who train Frisbee dogs than some "sport" people. Geesh.


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## andreas broqvist

Nice that you are doing Mondio with you dog Jennifer.
What lines are the dog from? Do you have any movies with you and your dog. Its alway nice to se.
I only know of fiew doing mondio with abs it It wuld be nice to se more.


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## Gillian Schuler

Jennifer, I like your attitude, pity it's not shared by more!

As to the hardest biting power being attributed to one or another breed, this has never been scientifically proved. How would it be? As others have said, it's not how hard a dog could bite, any bite is painful and biting power in relation to the size of the dog is misleading. 

Dr.Dieter Fleig who fought the "Kampfhund Hysterie" in Germany and was untiring in his work for better breeding ethics states that the Molosser breeds have a relatively weak developed biting power for their size. He states that if one were to compare a Scotch Terrier's biting power with a so-called "Kampfhund" breed, the Scotch Terrier is certainly far superior!

I think the quest to find the "hardest" biting dog is only tantamount to putting food in the mouths of the hungry journalists.

Anybody had a horse bite, btw???


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## Shane Carter

Gillian, I had a horse bite me in my ear when I was about 10 and it FRGINN hurt. I still remember it and have a scar to prove. I think that horse is long glue now.:twisted: but it wasn't soon enough as far as I am concerned.

Shane


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## David Frost

Horse bites usually don't result in the punctures and tearing that can accompany a dog bite. They do hurt like heck though.

DFrost


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## Howard Gaines III

Don I think the Terriers are natural scrappers, only because of the breeding. Think going into a dark hole and pulling out the "trash." Sure Mals bite hard but if you look at the dogs head structure, long rather than wide, which breed is it? As long as it bites and hangs on, give me Bob's JRT...\\/


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## Rick Mattox

"The bottom line is this....yes a Bulldog has the tools to bite extremely hard, but he does not have the heart and desire to bring that power to the man."


The pictures show that this particular Bulldog (not AB) had the heart and desire to bring the power to the man.








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## Barrie Kirkland

Jerry Lyda said:


> My Boston, Doodle Bug, bit my GSD, Bentley, under the chin. Bentley tried to shake Doodle off but Doodle would not turn loose until Doodles jaw broke in two places. The lower jaw was just hanging. Pins and wires. The next day Doodle lifted his leg on Bentley while Bentley was in his crate. Don I believe you are right, pound for pound Terriers are tufffffff. Ten feet tall and bullet proof.



Doodle is a postively EVIL name ... conjures up scary images of killer dogs


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## Hans Akerbakk

Hardest dog I have been bite by was a AB named Ed, left knee I was left with a 6inch long bruise ,4inches wide with all 4 canines leaving 1/2 inch high yellow welts red stripes were canines tore top few layers of skin, all on a lovely purple ,green and blue background. Suite made the same sound as the Hulk ripping out of a shirt,mouth keeped closing like a vise some how my leg poped out.
Same day right thigh Bouvier 5 1nch round bruise same colours and marks as AB bite, 2nd hardest.
Next day went to water slides with family.Crowds of people, I was like Moses parting the red sea the way they moved out of my way.


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## Jennifer Marshall

Andreas, I don't have any videos yet as we are both in the infancy of our training  Until very recently 99% of his training has been done by myself, alone. I hope to get video soon of obedience work but right now my focus is on his bite development as his obedience is nice for a 14 month old pup. I have a new path to start treading thanks to a good friend and I hope to get him to training more often. Until now I have been unable to schedule it regularly as its a 400 mile round trip.

Cuda's pedigree can be seen here: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/american_bulldog/pedigree/657631.html 

Gillian, thank you  I have worked with many different types/breeds of dogs (not for sport) that while I have favorites I can see the merits and downfalls of every breed. No breed is perfect and I find it unfair to so heavily criticize the people and their dogs that are trying to make a difference. It seems so many people think that working AB/bully people are trying to turn the breeds into malis or GSDs but we are not. We are simply trying to improve the breed. I don't understand the idea that some think in order for the AB to be a good breed it MUST be like a mal or GSD. It isn't and should not be, these are ABs. Not mals/GSDs and it should stay that way (IMO)

And yes I have been bitten by horses. I have muscle/nerve damage in my left calf from being bit by my last horse before I had him gelded. Most "horse bites" are not full bites, if I horse were to bite down as hard as it could it will tear muscle from bone and may take a chunk out of you. Most "bites" to us are "nips" to them. I miss my horses but I don't miss that one nearly as much as the others LOL


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## Lynda Myers

Mike, I feel I need to address the statement you made... American Bulldogs WERE NOT BRED TO KILL ANYTHING! Their primary job was to catch and control unruly livestock. Are they equipped to potentially kill something sure! But then so are Mals, GSDs, Bouviers(sp), Rotts etc. When discussing bull breeds in general you have to be careful about making statement such as the one above because John Q public will takt it and use against us in a breed ban and I for one don't want help them ban my beloved breed. 

Carry on great discussion!




mike suttle said:


> Hey Shane,
> I agree with you. I think in a dog fight, or when killing another animal the Bulldog bites WAY harder than a GSD, Mali, or Dutchie, because he wants to be there fighting for his life and he gives everything he has, and like I said in the earlier post they CAN bite harderm but when working on a man they DONT bite harder.....Bulldogs are wierd that way, they want to fight for their lives with animals, but do not want to fight with a man with the same intensity. If you bulldog breeders find a way to breed a bulldog that has the same desire to fight and kill a man as it does a hog or another dog, then I think people will have to take the breed serious, hell i may even own one then. Of course they will also have to track, have excellent health, speed, agility, environmental nerves, super hunt drive, they will have to retrieve iron, and they will have to have excellent endurance.


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## Lynda Myers

andrew kurtowicz said:


> i just cant take it when people say that their presa canario, cane corso, american bulldog...etc. are "WORKING DOGS" my idea of a working dog is the total package social and neutral of the field but a MONSTER on the field and will stay that way for 12-15 years with non-stop drive in everything they do not a dog that needs an oxygen tankto walk to the mail box !!!!!!!


You must being dealing with Johnson type American Bulldogs as many of them need a tank of air and shade!


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## Lynda Myers

Matt Grosch said:


> Not sure if it is related or not, but I have noticed an increase in maulings/killings by AB's at least in the Phx area, in the last 5 years or so. Popularity, backyard breeders, and irresponsible owners......?


A little of all three...but it doesn't help that the average AB pup sells for about $1000.00 to $1500.00.


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## andreas broqvist

jennifer.
Nice i like kiws dogs, and she seems like a wery nice person that realy dose aloot of good with her dog.
Good luck with your traning.

andrew.
ther are 2 types of abs and one mix betwen the types.
the bully/jonsontype and the extrem hbrids ore the dogs you are talkig about. 
the standard "hunting type" and the standard hybred "the dogs mostly used for sch" are not like that.

Her are som pix, they have a more workingtype body.


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## Shane Carter

These dogs are related to my dog. My dogs father is either the father or grandfather to these dogs. TG Zeus. To date I have the highest titled dog from this line. It is not much but it is what it is. He would have gone much frther had I not had to shut him down and teach him assistance dog work after my wife got MS. He was in the prime of his working AB life about 4yo.

The next time he got to trial was a BST for ABs which he passed no problems at just over 7 and then a year later 2008 St. Patties day I took him out on Sunday to try his PSA PDC. He passed that right off my bed from sleeping next to my wife no prep no training just got him up and went out and did it. It was not pretty at all but he did do it. The mistakes where made by me mostly. 

The next time I work him is in this vid here earlier this year with Tim Bartlett. He has not seen a decoy of this caliber since 2004. He also has a hurt leg and is way out of shape but he did good for a dog that is about to turn 10, I think. Especially for an AB. (BTW Jeff this is a dog that would have benefitted from speed for sure) Again he is not pretty but kinda knows what to do.

Right now I am taking what I learned from him and the Mali people I trained with and other dogs and making my next ABs better so that I improve as a trainer and breeder of these hard headed, slow maturing, slow biting , week mouthed, big headed, strong as hell, dogs I love so much. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXxoZRUV_ns

Here he is at the PSA trial in 08 at 8.5yo. big thank you to one of the best trainers and dog photographers I know Kadi Thingval. Kadi I borrowed these from your site. 















































BTW, he is also the brother to a dog that Courtney posted on here a while back Tuff, he is a worker as well.

One more BTW- the dog that got high distinction for the weekend at the St. Patties day PSA trial last year was a Bully Breed dog . Leri Hanson's Capone. 


Sorry to hijack the post. Just thought I would blow up this post with working ABs espcially since Andreas posted dogs related to mine. :-D

He has his BST,PDC, CGC, TDI, and Assistance dog cert as well as caught wild hogs in a pen.
I know Jeff and everyone else, all low level. That is not his fault at all it is mine. He also failed his one time trying for FR Brevet in TX at the 2004 championships. However so did Carlos Gomez with his Mali and Jason Farrish and Bas. I felt bad but not too bad after no one passed brevet that day. 

Shane


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: He also failed his one time trying for FR Brevet in TX at the 2004 championships. However so did Carlos Gomez with his Mali and Jason Farrish and Bas. I felt bad but not too bad after no one passed brevet that day. 

Such a bulldogger, throwin others under the bus with you. LOL

THere is failing a trial, and then there is FAILing a trial. Right now, I miss some of the dogs that I had that pretty much gave you what you saw in training, but you got to love the ones that are a bit over the top.

It is too bad that you were not able to eek out a good enough performance for him to pass. Time to train is just not always there and handler and decoy's schedules do not always match.


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## andreas broqvist

shan you are right, al of thos dogs are down from zeus ore linebred on him 1 gen away at max.
higest titteld depend on how you look at it  one of thos dog are competing att lydnadsklass elite, withs is the higest clas of Ob in fci. mostly bodercollis at that level.
he also have done a sch bh, wildgame tracking tittel, Wp, id 5, ob 1, ob 2 pass and ob 3, abra workingclas winner, penhipp at top 90% and ecual ofa exelet "FCi AA" Elbows free and ncl free  the last are ofcaus no tittels but a helthy dog.

he has also 2 difrent type of temprament test. one shown erlyer on her to test raw material for police/Working dogs withs he past.

But yes if you look at protection tittels you are higer, as for now  We will try to shang that


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## tracey schneider

andreas broqvist said:


> jennifer.
> Nice i like kiws dogs, and she seems like a wery nice person that realy dose aloot of good with her dog.
> Good luck with your traning.


 
Thanks and same to you :-D

Nice to see your back on track jen \\/

Havent read this thread till today.......for obvious reason........dont really care nothing new etc.

I will say not all bulldogs fall under the same net if ya know what I mean...........

t


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## Barrie Kirkland

bulldogs & police .... come on..... i will give you all the rest but not service work


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## andreas broqvist

tracy i thaugt it was you  nice to se your dog are going in to ringsports to. will be fun to se what will come out of it. i cal it your dogs but it was valor how breed it right?

*Barrie*
No we are not thinking that we will get bulldogs in to police work. he he and realy not in sweden. But we like to test ouer dogs in many difrent ways. this is a temprament test done to test dogs if they have the raw material to start being traind for police ore securety dogs. you culd se a movie erlyer in the video section. L-test boserone i think it was.

We like to se as mutsh as we can and test them with peopel how know and have traind dogs fore many many years. if you downt look for the flaws you will not find then and cant improve.

but back to this thred.
ceep arguing on matsho biting stuff now


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## mike suttle

Simple solution..............Lets have a hardest biting conest:-D
To keep it fair and to keep from "stacking the deck" with a ringer from any breed, lets have 10 representatives from each breed and three decoys to work each dog. That way we get a more accurate evaluation.
Hell... I will even host it here at my place and provide a few of the Malinois and GSDs to test, I am sure I can get some of the forum members to provide a couple more Malinois and GSDs so we can get 10 of each. Then we just get 10 dogs from the other breeds and make it a training weekend complete with beer and BBQ, and of course like any event that we host here..... shooting!!\\/


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## tracey schneider

I bred the dam (its actually Icon's sister) and had breeding rights on her first breeding so I got to pick the stud. Im not a nazi so it was an agreed upon choice...more of a partnership breeding.....dont really care who gets credit for it as I consider all the dogs and their owners "part of the family" now and hope we can all continue to work together in our future endeavors.:-D

t


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## tracey schneider

andreas broqvist said:


> tracy i thaugt it was you  nice to se your dog are going in to ringsports to.


 
Sometimes I think ringsports would be easier with these dogs, esp my current one ........than trying to teach them that they can ONLY bite the sleeve............getting there......patience ](*,)

t


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## Steven Stroupes

There was a show on one of the Discovery Channels a while back called "Bite Force." This guy took a bite pressure gauge and tested all these different animals. The show started with 3 dogs hitting a bite sleeve with a pressure gauge in it. They gave several runs to a Pitbull, a GSD and a Rotty. The Pitbull bit at 235 psi, the GSD at 238 psi and the Rotty at 328 psi. I think that the video may still be available on YouTube.


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## Jennifer Marshall

Mike, sounds like a fun time! If Cuda were older and I had the money to make the trip I'd say count me in as an AB representative.. I wouldn't envy the decoys in that little test, though. I got to wear bite pants and get some exercise with a little 45 # Mali bitch and I know it certainly isn't the size of the dog that determines the bite O_O And I also believe that a strong bite is an possitive attribute, it isn't the end all be all of my training or whether I feel a dog is worthy of its food or my time.

I know quite a few people that will shy away from a chihuahua that shows a tendency to nip, so sometimes isn't so much the power of the bite as the power of the idea of the bite.

Andreas, yes, Tracey and everyone involved with my dog and his breeding are great people. I really could not ask for more understanding or supportive people. God knows I have not been able to live up to my own expectations of myself since my accident.

Tracey, Cuda is great  I will shoot you the e-mail I sent Tammie and Parker about my trip to Cali. It was a ton of fun for us both and I got a ton of great information that I'm putting to use. I wish you the best of luck with Blanco..... maybe you *should* give ringsport a try!! (hint hint..)


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## Jennifer Marshall

Steven, it has already been addressed in this post that many factors go into the bite power of each individual dog. Training, in my opinion, is at the top of that list. Among the other possibilities include speculation that bull breeds do not want to "fight the man" and so do not bite with much of the force they are capable of, but another way to look at it is perhaps they were not trained to develop the bite *because* of their breed and the false reputation of "X amount of PSI bite force." 

Bull breed owners are not without fault in any of the misconceptions surrounding the breeds. Poor breeding, handling, and training combined with people that shouldn't even own a pet rock = lots of BS spewing from people's mouths in a "mine's bigger than yours" dispute. 

We are all guilty of it. This thread is proof of that. I personally don't care. My interest in bite work/protection sports is that I find it fun and challenging for myself and my dog. I would go to a bite power competition at Mike's just to watch the dogs and gain the experience of working with and watching so many different handlers, trainers, decoys, and dogs.

I have seen several shows trying to gauge bite force of varying breeds of dog and other species. One of them had the show host doing the "decoy" work and I rolled my eyes and shook my head and changed the channel.


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## tracey schneider

Jennifer Marshall said:


> Tracey, Cuda is great  I will shoot you the e-mail I sent Tammie and Parker about my trip to Cali. It was a ton of fun for us both and I got a ton of great information that I'm putting to use. I wish you the best of luck with Blanco..... maybe you *should* give ringsport a try!! (hint hint..)


Excellent....... looking forward to it. Some nice males from that combo so it seems.

Thanks for the luck on BLanco...I am really enjoying him and that is what matters most.....but I think we can, I think we can, I think we can lol.

When I finished Icon I did look into Mondio, but the only one around here that does it is Ivan and at that time it was $40/ session......... out of my league.

t


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## Steven Stroupes

Jennifer,

I wasn't posting the comment as though it were the absolute truth for any and all dogs. It was merely something that I found interesting as all three dogs tested were highly trained protection dogs. I realize that every dog is different. I train regularly with a guy who works with American Bulldogs. I've caught his dogs and although I'm not partial to the breed myself, I can say that his dogs will give any GSD, Rotty or Mal a run for their money.


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## Thomas Barriano

Steven Stroupes said:


> There was a show on one of the Discovery Channels a while back called "Bite Force." This guy took a bite pressure gauge and tested all these different animals. The show started with 3 dogs hitting a bite sleeve with a pressure gauge in it. They gave several runs to a Pitbull, a GSD and a Rotty. The Pitbull bit at 235 psi, the GSD at 238 psi and the Rotty at 328 psi. I think that the video may still be available on YouTube.



There were several breeds shown. The hardest biting dog was a 120+ lb DUTCH SHEPHERD


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## Thomas Barriano

Here is the video with the Dutch Shepherd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQyWbjPRsDg


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## Anna Kasho

Thomas Barriano said:


> The hardest biting dog was a 120+ lb DUTCH SHEPHERD


I missed that! Did they put it on a scale? Did it look like a barrel on 4 legs? Or was it one of those amazing shrinking dogs that drop 40lb whenever anyone tries to actually weigh it? :lol:

I saw a 134lb lab once, for real. At that point it had actually dropped weight TO 134 lb. Dog should have been 60-70lb max. Talk about killing with kindness...


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## Jennifer Marshall

Hah unless that decoy is 7 feet tall that dog is NOT 130 pounds. The mastiff they list as 160 pounds and again, unless that decoy is a lot larger than he appears that dog is not 160 pounds.

The bulldog they use in that is pretty bully. The shorter the muzzle the more difficult it is for the dog to get a really full mouth bite. Their mouths are wide, but shallow. The power is in the mollars, the back of the mouth, not so much the canines. 20" tall and 80 pounds... geeze. I can respect the bullies but I personally prefer lighter dogs. My boy is 25.5" and 67 pounds, I don't see him getting much past 75 pounds, 80 max. In the video you post Thomas the mastiff has the highest bite power.


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## Greg Whelehan

Mike:
Let me know the dates so I can take the time off work and come down and train..... sounds like fun!


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## steve davis

mike suttle said:


> Simple solution..............Lets have a hardest biting conest:-D
> To keep it fair and to keep from "stacking the deck" with a ringer from any breed, lets have 10 representatives from each breed and three decoys to work each dog. That way we get a more accurate evaluation.
> Hell... I will even host it here at my place and provide a few of the Malinois and GSDs to test, I am sure I can get some of the forum members to provide a couple more Malinois and GSDs so we can get 10 of each. Then we just get 10 dogs from the other breeds and make it a training weekend complete with beer and BBQ, and of course like any event that we host here..... shooting!!\\/


 
if i lived in WV i would be there


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## steve davis

Thomas Barriano said:


> Here is the video with the Dutch Shepherd
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQyWbjPRsDg


 
mastiff-556
rotti-328
AB-305
GSD-238
APBT-235
dutchi-233
mali-195

these are from the bite force competition http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwMs7cjK0Y

the dog attack styles video both by Nat Geohttp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZm037jPNgc

what i want to know is what a dobie would rate at...


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## andrew kurtowicz

where= logan haus kennels.....when= october.....event= bitetober fest.....competitors= 10 gsd, 10 malis/dutchies, 10 bull breeds..... lets settle this on the field !!!!!! the highest level decoys needed


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## Matt Grosch

Like a Kumite (Bloodsport) for dogs?


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## Matt Grosch

2nd hand info, so for whats it worth, I know a guy that has taken a bite from most of the dogs, I guess the Dutchie is OJ's, he said no where near 120, in case anyone wondered


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## Gillian Schuler

Tell me the exact techniques of how the bite was measured.


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## Kadi Thingvall

Anna Kasho said:


> I missed that! Did they put it on a scale? Did it look like a barrel on 4 legs? Or was it one of those amazing shrinking dogs that drop 40lb whenever anyone tries to actually weigh


It's one of those incredible shrinking dogs LOL The dog lives/trains in this area and he's not even close to the weight they said.

Which makes you have to go "hmmmm" If they couldn't get the weights of the various dogs in their "study" accurate, what else wasn't done accurately????


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## Kyle Sprag

I can't tell when that was made but it was either Diablo or Canibal. I have taken bites from both, both bite Hard. Diablo might go 80lbs Canibal maybe 75lbs


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## Michael Pulford

count me in mike.....my malinois is a really nice bitting dog even at 9 he will give any dog a run for his money i competed him last year at a bull dog show where there were at least 100 bull dogs and he won hardest hitting.....but that aint saying much....lol....


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## Matt Grosch

I would want to come out and see that, taking bites from some of the 'best of the best' would be an awesome opportunity


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## mike suttle

Michael Pulford said:


> count me in mike.....my malinois is a really nice bitting dog even at 9 he will give any dog a run for his money i competed him last year at a bull dog show where there were at least 100 bull dogs and he won hardest hitting.....but that aint saying much....lol....


 OK, no problem, we will use your Mali for sure, I think Rick Furrow could bring us a nice Mali, I could maybe get Endor back up here for the test, I could also use Arko and Carlos. 
How many Bulldogs do we have together so far????


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## jack van strien

Very good idea! How are you going to test the dogs?Letting them bite without testing will not mean anything! Come up with a good way to test their courage and give people a chance to train for it or come up with something they are not prepared for.


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## andrew kurtowicz

i say just send everydog 20 yards for a bite on the back of the arm it will be judged souly on grip not hitting force


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Then why send them at all ?? Just sit in a chair and have the dogs bite you till you are swollen and crying. LOL

Kind of a dumb idea.


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## Guest

I agree! Mike, let me know when you have this, I need to plan in advance as I am gonna get Jeff out there to Decoy! 

Jeff, Road Trip!! Gonna have to get away from work for this if it happens, so you have the first hand knowledge. Guaranteed this would be a trip to remember. 

JB


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## andrew kurtowicz

rumor on the street is jody has duco ???? you can bring him but YOU have to get him to out.....lol.....good luck


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## Guest

No worries, 8 days with the boy he is the social butterfly! And OUTS his toy, the decoy, will see later on, but I'm sure he will.........


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Do you know how long the bone bruises that Aldo put on me took to heal ?? LOL

I tell you what, get me a paying gig to work with your hard chargers with their decoy work, and I will be able to afford to come and judge...er get bit in a chair. It can be the cost of gas and food and lodging.

I hope that Duco outs for you, and works real well. Better get him on the suit a lot, or you will not have much of an out. LOL


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## hillel schwartzman

Alright Mike ,
looks like you will have to put up w/ me again in oct... i will be there and i am bringing my 11mnt old pocket rocket to enter.. just want to know who will catch him and if you have a young dog class for my 55lb wet noodle..lol
Hill balt md 

hope to see yah soon


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## andrew kurtowicz

awesome jody.....just be careful with that dog hes super nice but wears the mistakes from past handlers on his sleeve if you know what i mean. dont worry hill ill bring greg down from upstate k9 to catch your dog and you 2 can spend some time together and catch up....lol


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## mike suttle

Now guys lets not carried away here. Before we plan a date and people start to make travel plans......lets see if we have 10 dogs from every breed being discussed here.
I am not worried about getting Malis and GSDs, but so far I have not gotten one PM, Email, phone call, or anything from any Bulldog people.
However I have gotten a huge response from the Mali/Dutchie and GSD folks! :razz:
Where are all those hard biting Bulldogs that we have been hearing so much about?

Jody....Duco will out, he outed fine for me here, but he had a couple handlers since me that made him a little confused in his head.

Jeff......Aldo bites well for sure, but he is not the hardest biting Arko son that I have.


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## kristin tresidder

mike suttle said:


> Where are all those hard biting Bulldogs that we have been hearing so much about?


 
i don't think i've heard anyone from this forum come on and say that all 'bulldogs' "bite harder" than the furry dogs. all i hear instead are 'shepherd' people yiping about all these 'bulldog' people that are supposedly talking elsewhere.


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## andrew kurtowicz

i know there are alot of bully breeds in psa, sda,and personal protection... lets get together for some fun training


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## mike suttle

kristin tresidder said:


> i don't think i've heard anyone from this forum come on and say that all 'bulldogs' "bite harder" than the furry dogs. all i hear instead are 'shepherd' people yiping about all these 'bulldog' people that are supposedly talking elsewhere.


You are right Kristin, their are not many Bulldog people on this forum who talk about how hard their bulldog bites, but believe me their are a higher % of bulldog people who I meet away from this forum who tell me how hard their dog bites. 
I like the breed for what it is, and I love the idea of people working their dog no matter what breed it is. But like Andy said I also get tired of people telling me how their Mastif, AB, Presa Canario, etc. can rip the sleeve off a bite suit, or break my arm through a sleeve.
Not all bulldog people are crazy thugs with fantasies about their dog's super powers, but it seams like most of the bulldog people who I meet are like that.
The fact that Andy lives in NY and he also sees that, and Jeff lives in TX and he also see it, makes me think that it is everywhere.
Of course their are Shepherd and Mali people who brag about their dogs too, but for some reason it is easier for me to ignor them.
I have worked many Bulldogs who were trained in PSA, SDA, and SchH and some of the best ones bite pretty hard, but the best of the best do not even come close to the best of the Malis / Dutchies and GSDs that I have worked.


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## andrew kurtowicz

for the "MAJORITY" of the bully people out there it becomes a penis swingin contest " my dogs 140 lbs wit a 26" head he breaks the hardest sleeves they make and i cant find a helper that will work him in a suit"....etc..etc.etc. thats all well and good but lets put it to the test if you are one of these people this thread is for you. if your are just training your bully and having fun i wish you all the sucess in the world this thread ISNT meant for you. for all you guys with bullys that are trying to compensate for some "short comings" in your life. please respond and tell all your bully buddys about this and please no lame excuses that you dont want to see a helper get hurt trying to work your dog !!!! we have all heard it before


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## mike suttle

For those of you who have never been to my kennel, there is a rescue squad and fire station at the end of my driveway (about 3 minutes away) so if any decoy gets his arm or leg torn off by a moster Bulldog then we can get an ambulance to you in only a few minutes.


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## andrew kurtowicz

thanks mike.... see all your monster bulldog people have no excuses...i have been to mikes he has plenty of room if we have to have a medical chopper land to transport a deformed helper.... it open invitation


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## James Downey

andrew kurtowicz said:


> for the "MAJORITY" of the bully people out there it becomes a penis swingin contest " my dogs 140 lbs wit a 26" head he breaks the hardest sleeves they make and i cant find a helper that will work him in a suit"....etc..etc.etc. thats all well and good but lets put it to the test if you are one of these people this thread is for you. if your are just training your bully and having fun i wish you all the sucess in the world this thread ISNT meant for you. for all you guys with bullys that are trying to compensate for some "short comings" in your life. please respond and tell all your bully buddys about this and please no lame excuses that you dont want to see a helper get hurt trying to work your dog !!!! we have all heard it before


 
I do not think that anyone argues that a Pit is a harder biting dog....shows up in the paper and evening news every now and again, to bad it's usually elderly or children who have to find out how hard they can bite. 

I laugh when the bully breed folks just give the politicians more ammo about banning....keep bragging, you'll brag yourself right out of a dog.


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## kristin tresidder

all i'm sayin' is that if this forum is the only place that the "hardest hitting dog" contest is being advertised, and you have to be a member to even read this site, but none of the members are the people doing the talking; then how are you going to get any of those doing the talking to even know about the event let alone agree to come?




mike suttle said:


> Not all bulldog people are crazy thugs with fantasies about their dog's super powers, but it seams like most of the bulldog people who I meet are like that.


 
LOL - so you're telling me that if i ever get to make it up to your place i should leave ripley's superhero cape at home?


----------



## kristin tresidder

James Downey said:


> I do not think that anyone argues that a Pit is a harder biting dog....shows up in the paper and evening news every now and again, to bad it's usually elderly or children who have to find out how hard they can bite.
> 
> I laugh when the bully breed folks just give the politicians more ammo about banning....keep bragging, you'll brag yourself right out of a dog.


 
i wish i could laugh when people like you say stupid sh!t like that, but sadly either the humor wore off awhile ago, or my tolerance for stupidity is decreasing as i get older.


](*,)


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Jeff......Aldo bites well for sure, but he is not the hardest biting Arko son that I have.

That is fine. Like I said, too broke currently with paying for two pups.


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## Don Turnipseed

Why, I have dogs that could bring the best decoys to their knees. They could make them all cry. That's a fact. They could if I could get them to bite someone for sure. You can take that to the bank. LMAO


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## mike suttle

Don Turnipseed said:


> Why, I have dogs that could bring the best decoys to their knees. They could make them all cry. That's a fact. They could if I could get them to bite someone for sure. You can take that to the bank. LMAO


YES, that is exactly my point!!


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## Jennifer Marshall

I see an issue with this contest. Your attitudes.

If the point is to have a gathering of dog folk to have a good time, then power to you. But it sounds like all you want to do is rub shit in bulldog/bull breed owners faces. If you know your dogs are superior, why do you care so much? All this talk of bulldoggers and their issues, you are no better. 

So you only want the stupid ignorant bulldog people to attend... where is the point in that? The people who truly believe their dog is the hardest hitting most iron mouthed beast that ever walked the earth will always have an excuse or a reason. If their dog loses they will cry foul on the decoys and then they just have more to talk about. 

The attitude I am seeing in this post is sure to drive away those who have dogs they actually work and train. I have an AB but I don't give a shit if he is ever considered hardest hitting or hardest biting. At first I thought this whole thing would be fun - food, drink, dogs, and dog people (yay!) but now I feel that if I attended even as a spectator I'd be treated like I had the plague because oh good god I have an American Bulldog that I "think" is a working dog.

Why does it matter so much what force a dog bites with? I would think that decoys and trainers alike would prefer a dog that wasn't extreme. Talking from a sport standpoint, the work already has its risks for dog and decoy, the more speed and power you add to the mix the higher the chance that a dog or decoy could get seriously hurt. In that sense I am GLAD I don't have the hardest hitting or hardest biting dog. 

No matter the breed, the harder they hit, the harder they bite, the more chance someone is going to get hurt in the work - which means you want decoys that are capable and experienced enough to handle working the dog, right? Are these types of decoys so common in every other area of the country but here? I have to drive 200 miles one way for the chance to get my dog worked and he ISN'T a super dog, he's a 14 month old PUP. I'd hate to think what I'd do if he WAS some sort of freakishly fast hard mouthed bastard.

So what if bulldog/bully breed people shoot their mouths off? People do it ALL THE TIME about EVERYTHING. I hear people talk about dogs all the time, saying the dumbest things I have ever heard about a variety of breeds. It irritates me that people are so stupid and ignorant, but I don't challenge them about it because it would make no difference if I did. What do I care if they think their toy poodle has better obedience than any other dog? What do I care if someone says their show shepherd is the meanest most aggressive tear your face off attack dog on the west coast?

Oh wait.. I don't.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So you are pussing out already ?? Notice the insecurity typical of the bulldoggers. LOL

So what if your dog isn't all that, if you can't have fun, then what is the point.....PLUS, who cares what anyone says ????


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## Jennifer Marshall

I always have fun with my dog. That is why I want to do Mondio, for fun and the challenge of it. You should understand that  But I am a poor kid living in Oregon, a trip to WV would be 2 months worth of paychecks. Worth it if I didn't get stoned and spat on, but not feasible at this point.

I'm not insecure about my dog, just my finances. My comments about the plague were to make a point. If this IS supposed to be a fun time then everyone needs to lighten up. I'm all about having fun and as I had previously posted this would be a great opportunity to meet a lot of working dog people. I love to talk dogs and training and even as a spectator I would appreciate the experience of seeing the dogs and decoys work.

But do you want a group of angry ignorant shits with their poorly trained dogs, or a group of working dog people out to have a good time with working dogs?


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## andrew kurtowicz

wow it didnt take long huh


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## todd pavlus

You wouldn't get stoned and spit on... probably just tarred and feathered. LOL.:-s I'd like to see some bully's in action. Something different to watch.


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## Don Turnipseed

andrew kurtowicz said:


> wow it didnt take long huh


Some of the dogs may be game but what..... the owners haven't got the grasp of what being game means yet????


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## James Downey

kristin tresidder said:


> i wish i could laugh when people like you say stupid sh!t like that, but sadly either the humor wore off awhile ago, or my tolerance for stupidity is decreasing as i get older.
> 
> 
> ](*,)


What's stupid about what I said. I do not think that the victims of these powerful dogs murdering or severly maiming them for life think it's stupid. It just happened to be thier reality.

Point being, These dogs are under huge pressure. I do not think the general public is buying the whole blame the deed not the breed catch phrase either. Here in Detroit, last week several outlying communties just put a bunch of restrictions on bullies. So, I think bragging about how hard your breed can bite...may not really be the route you want to go.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: But do you want a group of angry ignorant shits with their poorly trained dogs, or a group of working dog people out to have a good time with working dogs?

There is a difference ?? =D>=D>=D>=D>=D>=D>

Thank you folks, Good NIGHT. 

I will be here all week.


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## tracey schneider

this whole "hardest biting dogs contest" sounds like something "bulldog folk" would put on......and exactly what you are mocking them for no?.......are you sure your not bulldog folk in disguise???#-o

t


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## andreas broqvist

Tracey, ther are smal dicks everywher


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## Gerry Grimwood

I think a hardest biting dog contest would be hard to judge, if there was more than one decoy then it would just be up to the most descriptive and if there were only one, the opinion would change as the day went on and the arm/leg whatever got sore.

I think David Frost put it best, and I'm embellishing abit....If they sink the teeth to the gumlines and held on, that would be enough.


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## hillel schwartzman

alright everyone ....small and large dicks alike....why don't we just call it the hardest hitting dog fest and bring your dog of choice.... sounds more fun anyhow.



drug of choice training lol


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## James Downey

And the winner should get a kick in thier dick.


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## Bob Scott

Don Turnipseed said:


> Some of the dogs may be game but what..... the owners haven't got the grasp of what being game means yet????



Gamest dog I ever owned (or saw) was a sweet Border Terrier that would cringe from a growling puppy or an irritating kid.  Seriously!


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## Guest

This thread is so ****ing stupid.


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## andrew kurtowicz

o boy i think we offended a bully person !!!!!


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## Jason Moore

Two years from now I'm there lol I don't give a rats ass if a mal gsd or what ever hits harder than either my male or female ab. I wana learn dog training and enjoy that and let them enjoy it as well. I just like AB's so that's the breed I want to work with. What most people don't understand. They think that because there dog weighs 110lb. that it can hit harder than a 60lb mal but that bull dog aint running at mach 4 and as most know that affects the force that is put into the decoy. The reasons I bought the pups I bought is because the parents are all under or right at 100 lb. Both are athletic as I'll get out. I'm not one of those look how big my dog is kinda guys. I want performance and endurance with my dogs. Maybe one day I'll get to meet some of you and hopefully my dogs will be at a competitive level.


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## mike suttle

Jason Moore said:


> Two years from now I'm there lol I don't give a rats ass if a mal gsd or what ever hits harder than either my male or female ab. I wana learn dog training and enjoy that and let them enjoy it as well. I just like AB's so that's the breed I want to work with. What most people don't understand. They think that because there dog weighs 110lb. that it can hit harder than a 60lb mal but that bull dog aint running at mach 4 and as most know that affects the force that is put into the decoy. The reasons I bought the pups I bought is because the parents are all under or right at 100 lb. Both are athletic as I'll get out. I'm not one of those look how big my dog is kinda guys. I want performance and endurance with my dogs. Maybe one day I'll get to meet some of you and hopefully my dogs will be at a competitive level.


Very well said Jason, I agree with you totally. I would love to see you get your dogs to a competitve level.


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## andreas broqvist

he he you cant even se the funny shit in this.
You say oh oh al thos bully peopel are talking about ther hard biting dogs and im so tired of it.
Now you al are talking about how hard you dogs are biting and ohh the mal/gsd/hh is the hardest biting/hiting dogs bla bla bla. you are even talking about a stupid contest  Your just the same peopel you are tired of but with a difrent breed.
the sam sizes of ego, dicks and smal minds 
you just so funny.


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## Don Turnipseed

I haven never seen so many experts on small dicks. Y'all know what makes dicks seem small don't you??


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## tracey schneider

Don Turnipseed said:


> I haven never seen so many experts on small dicks. Y'all know what makes dicks seem small don't you??


I dont care, but keep em away from me. Sounds like a horrible nitemare 

oops.........did I just turn the page...........:-\"

t


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## Gerry Grimwood

Don Turnipseed said:


> Y'all know what makes dicks seem small don't you??


Big bellys and my first wife.


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## David Frost

Aiight folks, I think this thread has about descended as far as it's going to. If someone wants to add on to the hardest bite shenanigans, keep at it. Otherwise I think it's run it's course.

DFrost


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## steve davis

here's an idea..whats the toughest thing your dog has chewed up!!:idea:

hell im bored....


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## andrew kurtowicz

What the toughest thing my dog has chewed up......that easy me.... A LOT


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## Don Turnipseed

Water. He just couldn't get the best of it. Bunch of pansies here.


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## Jason Moore

Don Turnipseed said:


> Water. He just couldn't get the best of it. Bunch of pansies here.


Lmao My cousins GSD male and my ab female are exactly the same.


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## Howard Gaines III

James Downey said:


> I do not think that anyone argues that a Pit is a harder biting dog.


James I hope you are kidding. Pits are usually people friendly and dog aggressive. As far as a harder biting dog, the ones I've seen...NOT! No more than anything else out there.


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## Howard Gaines III

Don that Cocker must be facing "hard" water; come on, show us the Real Deal dogs...Poodles rules!:-({|=


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## Don Turnipseed

The "Real Deal" dogs? Screw that "who bites the hardest". When these guys start seriously grinning at people.....they don't want to get bit. Why, why these dogs are so bad I am actually afraid to encourage them to bite people. Lol Airedales RULE!!! Even over poodles and Mali's.LMAO See these airedales rolling on the ground laughing. They just listened to one of those spiels about how hard the mali's bite.


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## andreas broqvist

that is wery true! thos basterds are bad, Big terrier are nasty  my father use to have airdales and a friend did protection with hers. when they good they are realy nice dogs.


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## ann schnerre

don, i LOVE that pic every time you post it: jesus god those dogs have some incisors!!!!

who cares about PSI when you have 4x2" just gettin' a nice "bite"?? makes me glad i'm a bitch and not a sow....


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## andreas broqvist

DON
Do you hunt with them?


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## Don Turnipseed

ann freier said:


> don, i LOVE that pic every time you post it: jesus god those dogs have some incisors!!!!
> 
> who cares about PSI when you have 4x2" just gettin' a nice "bite"?? makes me glad i'm a bitch and not a sow....


LOL Thanks Ann. It is one of my favorite pictures for sure. What makes it amusing in this thread is that both dogs poctured ar State Cert Therapy dogs belonging to a teacher that has them in schools with disadvantaged children 3 days a week. Biting is not an option.


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## Don Turnipseed

andreas broqvist said:


> DON
> Do you hunt with them?


Andreas, Here are a couple of links.
http://www.huntingairedales.com
and
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v401/hicntry/ (the password to the second is "hunter"

Honestly, I was just having some fun with the mali owners but they dissappeared on me.


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## andreas broqvist

Thank you. Nice looking dogs for shore.
It good to se them hunt, I know of a nother AB breeder that uses airdale a bit to hunt with to.
Have you hunted with ABs to?


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## Don Turnipseed

No Andreas, I have hunted with hounds or airedales. I don't think I have even seen an AB up here in the mountains.


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## andreas broqvist

ok i will pm you some pics from hunts with our dogs then.
andreas


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## Don Turnipseed

ann freier said:


> don, i LOVE that pic every time you post it: jesus god those dogs have some incisors!!!!
> 
> who cares about PSI when you have 4x2" just gettin' a nice "bite"?? makes me glad i'm a bitch and not a sow....


Ann, what seems to have been missed is the size of the rear molars in the picture of the pup attacking the water. The molars are so massive so they won't shatter under the pressure these dogs have in the back even with the long muzzle. I carry a pair of leathermen pliers on my belt to extract the pieces of wood limbs they have clamped down on and wedged them between the upper teeth when they shear them off. You never let the pups get your fingers in the back of their jaw.


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## Diana Abel

mike suttle said:


> Simple solution..............Lets have a hardest biting conest:-D
> To keep it fair and to keep from "stacking the deck" with a ringer from any breed, lets have 10 representatives from each breed and three decoys to work each dog. That way we get a more accurate evaluation.
> Hell... I will even host it here at my place and provide a few of the Malinois and GSDs to test, I am sure I can get some of the forum members to provide a couple more Malinois and GSDs so we can get 10 of each. Then we just get 10 dogs from the other breeds and make it a training weekend complete with beer and BBQ, and of course like any event that we host here..... shooting!!\\/


 
Oh shit Mike, I'll be there. I'd even pay to see it! Sounds like a fun weekend in WV! lol I'll even bring my favorite smoke pole to do a lil shootin with! 
Diana


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## Matt Grosch

How many people have taken bites from both?


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## Kyle Sprag

Matt Grosch said:


> How many people have taken bites from both?


Both what?


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## Matt Grosch

Bullies discussed (mostly AB's)
Herders discussed (mostly Mals)


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## Kyle Sprag

Matt Grosch said:


> Bullies discussed (mostly AB's)
> Herders discussed (mostly Mals)


 
yes and the answer is: A dog bites as hard as a dog wants to bite!

More important is the REASON why the dog bites hard.


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## Gillian Schuler

I'd say this is the most important point.


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## Gillian Schuler

Too late to eidt.

Reference is to post of Kyle Sprag.


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