# Object Guard



## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

I'd like to see how everyone starts the Object Guard. I am talking about for ring sport.
Any videos would be helpful as well.

I think it would be a neat discussion.
Thanks
Julie


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## Christen Adkins (Nov 27, 2006)

I've been talking about this with some folks from the club. I'm looking forward to the replies here.


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## Gillian Schuler (Apr 12, 2008)

Object guarding is object guarding, or not? Whatever the name of the sport?

May sound daft but it's something I do with all my pups as a game, I approach them on my stomach and hesitantly try to pluck their toy from them. If they counter, ok, good dog, etc. 

I had a Landseer that would guard anything within his vicinity. He was a fantastic guarder. I think this comes from genetics, mainly. 

You can teach a dog to guard but it might not stick.

Our youngest dog (my husband's) went for me as a pup when I started this game - that is a first!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

UUUUuuuuuhhhh, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the beginnings of the object guard. Sorry.

I like what I saw in the video that Chris Jones put up with the puppy sniper, although that might be a bit hard with an older dog.

The club I was in had a way of training the OG and I didn't like it at all because the dogs were confused. So I trained it a different way.

I used a clicker to teach Buko to put his feet in the basket first, well milk carton.

THen I got him to rotate one way, and the next clicking when he moved his back feet.

Then when that was good, I told him when he could bite, and when to go back.

I have been told that the decoy is the one who trains this exercise, but they know less about training this exercise than I do. So I came up with this way as a fail safe.

In NM at the trial Buko was dog in white for his brother Jackson. He did the OG really nicely and of course it was not filmed.

The thing about it that I like is that it has a bit of a fail safe for you if things go wrong. The bad part is that everyone thinks they know how to teach it, yet had someone else teach their dog, and want to argue with you. LOL


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## Scott Dunmore (May 5, 2006)

So where do you think your dog should be in bite work when you start to teach this? Biting strongly, targeting well and outing? 

What is the dogs initial que to bite? The decoy turning towards him, maybe?

Do you start off letting the dog range some distance from the object for a bite and then put more control on, or make him stick there from the beginning while the decoy moves close in on him?

I have a hard time breaking this exercise down in my head, and it seems that if you don't have a plan of how you want to progress with it, it would be easy to get well and truely stuck. 

Right now, my youngest dog will put his feet on an object and has some understanding of moving his back feet around it to keep facing me. He's also biting and outing quite well. Now what??


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I was going to post more, but the phone rang. I don't think I went far enough back.

I got Buko at 10 1/2 months, so some of the things I wanted to try were kinda out, as he was a bit big. He is also reactive to the nth degree, so that was something that I wanted to avoid.

I spent some time getting him to stay with whatever it was that I used as an object, as MR it can be all kinds of stuff.

I know that dogs know distance, and wanted spazbot to go before a decoy could get him all pumped up, so I picked a meter and a half. I will say not to go with that distance, as it does not translate too well all the time, as well as the different objects. If I were to go back it would be half a meter to 1 meter instead.

I didn't worry about targeting and if a dog needs help biting, then this exercise may never get used.

The initial que to bite if you remember was I told him to. I said pakken. I just want the dog to get the bite at the same distance for a long time. Buko was very good about holding himself, and for a hyper reactive thing, he has very very good inhibition, which is a whole nother thread as I had different ideas about thresholds.......ANYWAY I told him to bite and THEN I cued him to go back by turning away and saying object.

The mistake I made was not letting him bite the tug sleeve jambierre or whatever long enough. This made him not want to bite so much. Keep this in mind, that bite is a reward for holding and doing it right,(staying on the object) the going back seems to be a seperate deal, and I do not think that you should wait until the dog is all power house to start training this exercise

Quote: 
Do you start off letting the dog range some distance from the object for a bite and then put more control on, or make him stick there from the beginning while the decoy moves close in on him?

No,yes.

I was teaching this myself, and figured as long as I didn't kick hiim in the head, I could do something else if it didn't work. So I cheated like a mother****er. I set up the lines 5 meter, and then 1 1/2 meter, not two meter line, as I wanted to be able to just go to a line and what was the point of putting two lines down ??? This is something that everyone should do. the line is where you want it to be, as you want the dog to hold till that point.

Anyway, I walked around on the 5 meter line, got him to rotate both ways, very important as dogs have a favorite. (do the non favorite way 2 or 3 times as much)

When I went in, if he was all antsy pantsy, I told him wait. (cheater) when I got to the line I said pakken and then turned away and said object. (remember to let the dog bite more, no matter what style)

I added distractions, cheating on days he was an idiot and told him when to go. I made sure that sometimes I tensed up, and sometimes I was relaxed.

The bad thing was that the object never moved, so when I first moved it on accident, he went back and guarded the same spot on the floor. Need to keep that in mind.

Quote: I have a hard time breaking this exercise down in my head, and it seems that if you don't have a plan of how you want to progress with it, it would be easy to get well and truely stuck.

It is truely truely a stupid stupid exercise. I want to kick in the balls whoever thought this was a good idea. All the ****ing sleep I lost trying to figure this out. Bullshit. LOL

Hopefully this will help you some.

Big mistakes I see made come from not giving the dog time to bite and trying to get them back

Not moving the object, that is why I like what that guy was doing in the video, used it as an attraction to get the pup back.

Using decoys that see that it sorta looks good, and then want to skip every step in the training and just go right out to world cup level. And then they know better than you.....but have never trained the exercise. (Sandro you dick :lol: )

Good thing was, I used no corrections. Bad thing was, no one could figure out what I was doing, and would not SHUT THE **** UP about the fact that if he was wrong, I told him what to do.

I think that this method would work really well with stronger dogs not spun up. I have not trained this exercise the hundreds of times that others have, and the dog doesn't SUCK at it. Still needs tuning of course, But not bad for no compulsion and never having done that kind of guarding.


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## Julie Blanding (Mar 12, 2008)

Thanks Jeff. I did see the video you were speaking of with the little mali pup. That was super. I like how they made the object a prey item and let the dog chase it and bite at it a little bit before he settled down.

My dog is at the point to where he will also go to the object and will rotate whenever I go (basically because he is spinning around in anticipation of the reward).

I also have a hard time breaking this down, because I worry if you que the dog when to bite with a voice, I worry that he may become too dependent on what the handler does and won't function on his own. I'm sure your dog enjoys biting a lot more than mine does, but my dog is no slouch either.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, you just always told him when he could bite at a certain distance, and if you could do it all over again, it would be closer...and you also want the bite duration to last awhile to be really rewarding for the dog.

Do you also reward the dog for letting go, and returning tothe object.. then do you mark that as well and let the dog bite again no matter where you are distance wise? Or again, at the same x meters...

Thanks 
Julie


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

I handed him food before I left the circle. The voice cue seems to throw everyone off, yet they do it with body language for every other command. LOL

Looking back,the reward should be that he gets to play the game again. I had almost no trouble with him going back at that point. Thanks to erratic work schedules and decoys that know better, when I am struggling with it, he developed a stupid habit of just being close enough. I think that with all the stupid things that happened in the OG, I shouldn't have one at all. I will have to get a decoy one day and go back to the beginning, and try and do it the way I want all the way through.

I think the biggest problem that I had was consistancy of the training. I went almost a year, and went back to the OG and he did fine, but I think that with consistancy it would have been really good. I do believe there is a time limit with this sport, and training at a casual rate will **** you in the end.


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## Al Lewis (Feb 3, 2009)

Jeff - 

Thanks, I personally got a lot out of your thought process on this thread.


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## Megan Bays (Oct 10, 2008)

Jeff when you choose to, you do an excellent job explaining things!

Very great thread, and I got a lot from it.



> I got Buko at 10 1/2 months, so some of the things I wanted to try were kinda out, as he was a bit big.


What would you have done with him if you'd gotten him younger?

Asking b/c I'd like to start trying to teach my mali pup to go to a certain "place", and would like to transition this into an object gaurd later on.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

Look at the video that Chris Jones put up. That is what I would have liked to do.


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