# working line pup



## tony panossian

hello all, any thoughts good or bad about leerburg pups as personal protection prospects? 
would you consider this line for your working dog?


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## Kyle Sprag

tony panossian said:


> hello all, any thoughts good or bad about leerburg pups as personal protection prospects?
> would you consider this line for your working dog?


 
I would NEVER by a pup from Ed!


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## Mike Scheiber

tony panossian said:


> hello all, any thoughts good or bad about leerburg pups as personal protection prospects?
> would you consider this line for your working dog?


He dont breed dogs any more


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## tony panossian

kyle, i have been apprehensive about going down that road, but haven't had a good reason just a gut feeling. thanks for your reply.


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## Thomas Barriano

Mike Scheiber said:


> He dont breed dogs any more



Ed appears to be taking a break from breeding GSD's but is still breeding Malinois under Kaiserhaus kennel name.

I wouldn't buy a GSD from Ed either. I saw a couple of Leerburg "working dogs" that were pretty sad. Lots of excuses about it all being the handlers fault. It wasn't


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## mike suttle

I have seen several dogs from Leerburg and I have not been impressed with the vast majority of them, however, to this day the best GSD police dog I have ever seen was a dog named Casper from Leerburg. Based on the very low % of good dogs I have seen from there I would not want a Leerburg dog. I have delt with Ed in other issues in the past and I could not get along with him.


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## Daryl Ehret

I can't advise on the working quality, but I have had several prospective buyers tell me their sad tales of health issues and short lives of their Leeburg dogs. Of course, that's second hand info, but just too frequent for me to disbelieve it entirely.


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## Christopher Jones

If someone has bred over 320 litters, even if they were only half competent, there should be a cracker from him on every street corner. However there isnt.


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## tony panossian

thank you all for the replies, i am having a hell of a time finding working line german shepherd breeders!!, let me clarify, that i am comfortable getting a pup from. i have found many malinois breeders, mike i spoke with you on the phone about a week ago you are a straight shooter and i have heard nothing but great things about your dogs. but i did want to start with GSD, for many reasons one of which i keep hearing they are easier to handle for a first timer in ppd (mike i'm pissed at you for not breeding shepherds. i tried to contact carlos (the breeder you suggested i start with) my phone call and email were not returned. i don't want to work with someone i will not be able to get in touch with. can anyone guide me to a breeder?


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## Jason Sidener

tony panossian said:


> i tried to contact carlos (the breeder you suggested i start with) my phone call and email were not returned. i don't want to work with someone i will not be able to get in touch with.


If your talking about Carlos Rojas you may want to give him a chance to get back with you. He was competing at the FCI world championship in Austria


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## mike suttle

Jason is right, Carlos has been out of the country. I have never owned a dog from him, but his lines are very good and he competes and does well with his dogs. A good friend of mine has a female from Carlos that he is VERY happy with. I think Carlos will contact you when he gets back and gets settled in from his long trip.
Whenever I get home from a buy trip in Europe for a couple weeks I always have several emails and phone messages from people who are pissed at me for not getting back to them after 3 calls, etc. So dont be too hard on him, LOL.


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## James Downey

tony panossian said:


> thank you all for the replies, i am having a hell of a time finding working line german shepherd breeders!!, let me clarify, that i am comfortable getting a pup from. i have found many malinois breeders, mike i spoke with you on the phone about a week ago you are a straight shooter and i have heard nothing but great things about your dogs. but i did want to start with GSD, for many reasons one of which i keep hearing they are easier to handle for a first timer in ppd (mike i'm pissed at you for not breeding shepherds. i tried to contact carlos (the breeder you suggested i start with) my phone call and email were not returned. i don't want to work with someone i will not be able to get in touch with. can anyone guide me to a breeder?


I think you have great promise with Carlos..

But GSD guys help me out with this one. From what I have seen...A good GSD can be just as hard to handle as a good Malinois. I think when people say easy...They mean less. Which is not always better.


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## Jerry Lyda

Planned breeding for Lexus von Zwinger Lundy and Ichilles von Whirling Thunder.

This is their breeding check http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=481179&modir=449060

4-5 on Mink


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## Jerry Lyda

You're not that far away Tony, come watch both of these dogs work.


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## Anne Vaini

tony panossian said:


> hello all, any thoughts good or bad about leerburg pups as personal protection prospects?
> would you consider this line for your working dog?


Tony,

I've seen enough variety in "Leerburg" lines that I think it is worth a second look, rather than generalizing everything with the kennel name.

I would not want anything with Otis vom Jacobiner Schloss in the pedigree. Almost all of the Leerburg litters in 2005 - 2006 had Otis in the pedigree. It isn't so much of a matter if the pup could be raised to do the work, but some behaviors that I don't have patience for. 

I would be interested in anything out of this girl: http://leerburg.com/sage.htm or her sister Spy (owned by Jason Sidener, I think). These two girls and their dam, Ana vom Haus Martin, define the GSD to me.

I'm not likely to ever have a GSD, but I would be looking for a dog identical in physcial appearance and temperament to those 3 ladies.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

There are no "lines" at all, may as well have just scatterbred. I would rather get a dog out of the pound and be laughed at for the attempt than to put up with this mans bullshit excuses.

Wrote to ask if the X GF's dogs line matured late, reply, go **** yourself.

She wrote to tell him that the dog's spine was junk at just around two, reply, go **** yourself, we have NEVER had that happen.

2 hours before the pup was to be shipped she was informed he was monorchid.

1 encounter, 1 person, 3 go **** yourselves. Who does that ??

Why do business with that kind of shitter breeder. I have seen good dogs from people that at least can answer questions without the bullshit.


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## Carol Boche

Anne Vaini said:


> her sister Spy (owned by Jason Sidener, I think). These two girls and their dam, Ana vom Haus Martin, define the GSD to me.


I have a Spy/Arras offspring and I LOVE him.....he is a great dog with wonderful temperament. Not over the top at all and really stable. He is out of Betty Mathena's kennel name (she whelped and raised the litter) but I believe Anne is right on the ownership, both were owned at the time by VonSidener Kennels, Spy is in a retirement home now.....

I do have some video of Ajay's first bitework with Bernhard.....but as I told Jeff....I am pretty nervous to post it here (I do have it upelsewhere though).....waiting for Jeff's private response back and then I will probably put it up....\\/ :-o :mrgreen: 

I originally got him for SAR....but after working with Will and Bernhard, we changed and are now going into Sch together.....so he was focused on one kind of toy, so I had to work pretty hard to get him to take any kind of toy rather than his favorite.....pays to get the dogs used to playing with ALL kinds of stuff. He is great to work with though and his tracking is outstanding.


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## Gary Garner

"Please buy my video on - "Would you want a Leerburg pup" where you'll find all the information you want"...

oh, did I tell you about video "How to train your dog........."

then there's the video we've released "Your dog and helper and how they can...."

etc etc... Marketing and bloody advertising all the time...[--({|=#-o


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## tony panossian

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> There are no "lines" at all, may as well have just scatterbred. I would rather get a dog out of the pound and be laughed at for the attempt than to put up with this mans bullshit excuses.
> 
> Wrote to ask if the X GF's dogs line matured late, reply, go **** yourself.
> 
> She wrote to tell him that the dog's spine was junk at just around two, reply, go **** yourself, we have NEVER had that happen.
> 
> 2 hours before the pup was to be shipped she was informed he was monorchid.
> 
> 1 encounter, 1 person, 3 go **** yourselves. Who does that ??
> 
> Why do business with that kind of shitter breeder. I have seen good dogs from people that at least can answer questions without the bullshit.


jeff, i am not surprised, and that is where i had that gut feeling. i had joined his forum for 2 weeks or so last year and some of his responses to my questions made him sound a bit full of himself aka **** that was a red flag.
thanks to everyone on this forum i have quite a bit to go on for my next pup


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## Anne Jones

Ok, I know that I am going to get slammed here, but..............
I have a really nice 5 1/2 yr old Leerburg bitch. It seems, from the comments here, that she is one of the exceptions to the rule. (lucky me!) She is a very stable tempered, enviromentally sound, hard bitch. She has a very hard. full bite to die for & will NOT let go until told. She is a very high drive dog with an off switch. (providing she is well worked) Lives loose in the house 24/7, with no issues. She will retrieve anything that I ask her to, tracks like the best of them( SchH III tracks), works & bites under any distractions & has been very well tested under some hard pressure. She is not at all equipment oriented. She is a little black & tan, all muscle, 65 lb dog. She has been worked by Bernhard Flinks, Mike Ellis, Ranier Vortman, John Soares, & John Rodrigues (he helped me with most of the SchH training) All of whom have been very impressed by her from 8 months old on. As I had stated on another thread here, I was about to polish her to title her, when I had a bad fall that left me with a permanent back condiditon & I have not been able to train to the extreme needed to trial her since then. I have had several people offer me a 3 & 4x what I paid for her(untitled). I guess that they must have been stupid, since everyone seems to think that Leerburg dogs SUCK! She ODA'd Good & is a healthy raw fed dog. ............NOW LET THE SLAMMING BEGIN !!!!!!


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## Carol Boche

Anne Jones said:


> Ok, I know that I am going to get slammed here, but..............
> I have a really nice 5 1/2 yr old Leerburg bitch. It seems, from the comments here, that she is one of the exceptions to the rule. (lucky me!) She is a very stable tempered, enviromentally sound, hard bitch. She is a very high drive dog with an off switch. (providing she is well worked) Lives loose in the house 24/7, with no issues. She will retrieve anything that I ask her to, tracks like the best of them( SchH III tracks), works & bites under any distractions & has been very well tested under some hard pressure. She is not at all equipment oriented. She is a little black & tan, all muscle, 65 lb dog. She has been worked by Bernhard Flinks, Mike Ellis, Ranier Vortman, John Soares, & John Rodrigues (he helped me with most of the SchH training) All of whom have been very impressed by her from 8 months old on. As I had stated on another thread here, I was about to polish her to title her, when I had a bad fall that left me with a permanent back condiditon & I have not been able to train to the extreme needed to trial her since then. I have had several people offer me a 3 & 4x what I paid for her(untitled). I guess that they must have been stupid, since everyone seems to think that Leerburg dogs SUCK! She ODA'd Good & is a healthy raw fed dog. ............NOW LET THE SLAMMING BEGIN !!!!!!


No slamming from me....if she is a great dog....then that is what she is. I don't know enough about the GSD side to say if they are good or bad. I just read and learn really. 
Like I said before.....I love Ajay, who's mother is Spy........


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## James Larkey

Anne Vaini said:


> I've seen enough variety in "Leerburg" lines that I think it is worth a second look, rather than generalizing everything with the kennel name.
> 
> I would not want anything with Otis vom Jacobiner Schloss in the pedigree. Almost all of the Leerburg litters in 2005 - 2006 had Otis in the pedigree. It isn't so much of a matter if the pup could be raised to do the work, but some behaviors that I don't have patience for.


My girl, Etta, is linebred 3-3,3 on Otis. She has turned out to be a good dog and I am very happy with her overall.




Anne Vaini said:


> I would be interested in anything out of this girl: http://leerburg.com/sage.htm or her sister Spy (owned by Jason Sidener, I think). These two girls and their dam, Ana vom Haus Martin, define the GSD to me.


"Spy" is Etta's Dam and is linebred 2-2 on Otis. Spy's dam is Umsa vom Leerburg, not Ana vom Haus Martin.


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## Anne Jones

Actually, Carol, I met Spy when I was out at Leerburg 5 years ago. She was still there then. She has had some nice pups, even at Leerburg. I remember when they put here up for sale, I knew someone was going to get a very nice dog.

My female is an Otis line. She has his hardness., for sure.


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## Al Curbow

Carol,
DON"T put the vid up here, you'll get killed, dog sucks, won't retrieve a car, can't jump cause he's a GSD, ain't real etc. , lol. 

I also have a Spy son, good pup for sure. A good dog is a good dog, who gives a shit who the breeder is.


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## Carol Boche

Al Curbow said:


> Carol,
> DON"T put the vid up here, you'll get killed, dog sucks, won't retrieve a car, can't jump cause he's a GSD, ain't real etc. , lol.
> 
> I also have a Spy son, good pup for sure. A good dog is a good dog, who gives a shit who the breeder is.


I know....that is why I have not put it up here yet....but I did get Jeff's input and it was great. What he said really made sense and I will be utilizing his advice. 

Thanks Crabby!!!! :lol::lol:


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## Timothy Saunders

tony panossian said:


> thank you all for the replies, i am having a hell of a time finding working line german shepherd breeders!!, let me clarify, that i am comfortable getting a pup from. i have found many malinois breeders, mike i spoke with you on the phone about a week ago you are a straight shooter and i have heard nothing but great things about your dogs. but i did want to start with GSD, for many reasons one of which i keep hearing they are easier to handle for a first timer in ppd (mike i'm pissed at you for not breeding shepherds. i tried to contact carlos (the breeder you suggested i start with) my phone call and email were not returned. i don't want to work with someone i will not be able to get in touch with. can anyone guide me to a breeder?


 
I say the tiekerhook kennel. he is in holland and is expensive.but you will get a dog that could be a real p.p. or serious sport dog . Sue who post on this board has one and loves it. I am not saying that anyone couldn't breed a bad dog but you will never see it if he did.jmho


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## Gillian Schuler

James Downey said:


> I think you have great promise with Carlos..
> 
> But GSD guys help me out with this one. From what I have seen...A good GSD can be just as hard to handle as a good Malinois. I think when people say easy...They mean less. Which is not always better.


I think a good working line GSD is no easier to work than a Malinois. I don't think you can separate these breeds into easy / difficult.

Some Malis just lend themselves to working with no objections, so do working line GSDs but there are Malis and GSDs that will try your patience for ever.

Some handlers are stubborn - some are flexible:razz:


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## Mike Lauer

obviously there are individual dog personalities in both camps
I'm relatively new and dont claim to be an expert but my initial take is a hard dog is a hard dog

why i think people say gsd's are easier is they are more numerous and popular with non-working people
so you"see" more soft gsd's 

a stubborn hard mali or gsd is going to annoy the shit out of you if you cant laugh at it


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Now that the little shit is here, I would recommend Laurent. I put his website up on the EsCOW thread. God I need to get more sleep.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I just want to say that I would not deal with Ed's crap. I have seen some nice dogs from his breedings, but he is really expensive, and honestly doesn't deal with anyone very well.

The response was so go **** yourself that we couldn't believe it.

Why deal with that kind of breeder is what I am saying.

Ann, have you bred your dog ??


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## Jason Sidener

Jeff,

Your X girl friends dog with the junk spine. May I ask what was the pedigree on this dog?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

The father was Xando, I don't remember the female. There were two pups in the litter, and he was monorchid. it was about 3 years ago.


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## Jason Sidener

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> The father was Xando, I don't remember the female. There were two pups in the litter, and he was monorchid. it was about 3 years ago.


Thought maybe the dog was out of Otis. I know Otis was put down due to his back but I am not sure how old he was at the time or if it was from injuries or not.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

He was on the mothers side. I just cannot remember her name. 



My girlfriend and I were talking about some article Reiser had written about selecting for bad spines, (whatever it is called) accidently, as it would sting when they did the B&H and the dog looked stronger. These dogs were bred, and it continued. It was a while back.


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## Jason Sidener

That is interesting. Would you have a link to that article?


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Oh God no. that was years ago, and it was badly translated by me with a German dictionary.

I was at an old friends house, and he still keeps up with Reiser, and Sch, but does not participate. He got it from his buddy in Germany. They are pen pals or some shit.

I will see if the GF remembers about when that came out. Remembering what year something was is no longer a skill I seem to have. Been kinda embarrassing lately.

Kinda like mis-spelling my own dogs name.


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## ann schnerre

jeff--you just need to start taking acaia supplement!! that will cure all (i guess), that and viagra, you'll be SMOKIN'!!!!


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## Jeff Oehlsen

What the heck would I do with Viagra ?? I am happy as a clam that the damn thing calmed down after 40. You try waking up everyday to a raging uhhhhh area. LOL After 40 years of it, I am glad the damn thing is still asleep when I wake up.


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## Carol Boche

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What the heck would I do with Viagra ?? I am happy as a clam that the damn thing calmed down after 40. You try waking up everyday to a raging uhhhhh area. LOL After 40 years of it, I am glad the damn thing is still asleep when I wake up.


:-o:-o

TMI LOL


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## Adam Rawlings

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> What the heck would I do with Viagra ?? I am happy as a clam that the damn thing calmed down after 40. You try waking up everyday to a raging uhhhhh area. LOL After 40 years of it, I am glad the damn thing is still asleep when I wake up.


Really? I like having something to hang my towel from while brushing my teeth.:smile:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I think we have a different type of thing going on. LOL


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## ann schnerre

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> You try waking up everyday to a raging uhhhhh area. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> i, ummm, still do, so don't whine to me (cheese, carol??).
> 
> are we a little OT here? or is there a tie-in (DON'T go there) that i'm missing? lol
Click to expand...


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Yes, but you are old. Old women get what we had to deal with as teenagers. At least you are old enough to understand, and deal with it.

So, HA HA


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## David Ruby

Can we make this thread a stickie? :razz:

-Cheers


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## David Ruby

ann freier said:


> Jeff Oehlsen said:
> 
> 
> 
> You try waking up everyday to a raging uhhhhh area. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> i, ummm, still do, so don't whine to me (cheese, carol??).
> 
> are we a little OT here? or is there a tie-in (DON'T go there) that i'm missing? lol
Click to expand...

It's not quite the same. Guys have to worry more about certain dynamics of the laws of physics. Going around corners, closing cabinets and drawers, working the refrigerator, especially when groggy from just waking up. These all take special considerations.

But yes, this is a tad OT.

-Cheers


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## ann schnerre

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Yes, but you are old. Old women get what we had to deal with as teenagers. At least you are old enough to understand, and deal with it.
> 
> So, HA HA


which may be why we like "younger" men. 

so HAHA 

ps: david, males have dealt with the "laws of physics" since they were BORN (i happen to know this b/c i have a son), so that dog don't hunt.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So you are saying you are a "cougar" that lives in the middle of no where ??


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## Jerry Lyda

jeff, This gives a new meaning to "personal protection" dosen't it?


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## Anne Jones

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I just want to say that I would not deal with Ed's crap. I have seen some nice dogs from his breedings, but he is really expensive, and honestly doesn't deal with anyone very well.
> 
> The response was so go **** yourself that we couldn't believe it.
> 
> Why deal with that kind of breeder is what I am saying.
> 
> Ann, have you bred your dog ??


No, Jeff, I haven't bred her. I came close a couple of times, but decided against it. I finally decided that I didn't want to take the chance of loosing her, just to produce a litter with the HOPES of getting a dog as nice as she is. To me, it wasn't worth the risk. I know that goes against the way that most people with really nice dogs think, but it is the way I feel. I have had a number of people ask me to breed her to their males, even though she was not titled. She is now at a age that I would not breed her as a maiden dog. 

I will also add that Ed, as arrogant as he can be, at times, has always answered any e-mails that I have sent him very pleasantly. Although, I haven't sent one in a couple of years. When I was out there with her for 5 days for a Flinks seminar, he kept telling me that he had kept back the wrong female from my dogs litter. He really would have liked to have had her back & she was only 8 months old at the time. Bernhard was also VERY impressed with her. I also overherd him speaking to Ed about how exceptionally nice of a female she was. I do think that he has gotten more difficult for some people to deal with in recent years, for whatever reason. But we all get a little less tollerent with age. Life has a way of doing it to us sometimes. 

I guess that I just got very lucky & blessed with her. She is a very special dog in many ways. I have had 3 males since her, that cannot hold a candle to her in most ways.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

She is only 5 right ?? I have yet to see a mortality from a breeding. 

Anyone heard of this ??


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## Anne Jones

I actually know of a couple, not working line GSDs but it does happen, even if not as much now as years ago. But I am still not willing to take the chance. I know, kinda dumb, but my perogative. She will be 6 late this year. I also know if she were in another's hand, they would have bred the crap out of her. I also know that really nice dogs should be bred to pass on what they have. But there are no guarantees that this will be the case. I know of a litter that on paper & knowledge of the parents's abilities, the litter should have been outstanding & all but 1 or 2 (& they wern't all that special) had some REALLY BAD issues. I didn't purchase a female with the thoughts of breeding her, I just liked the breeding & the black & tan females in the litter. It was also a litter that was to be on the ground shortly after I had decided to get a dog from Ed & the timing was right.


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## Carol Boche

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Yes, but you are old. Old women get what we had to deal with as teenagers. At least you are old enough to understand, and deal with it.
> 
> So, HA HA


Geesh I leave for a day and you guys WENT THERE!!!! What is up with that.....

Off Topic is a mild description you two....naughty, naughty.....:mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## ann schnerre

he started it!!


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## Carol Boche

ann freier said:


> he started it!!


mmmmm hmmmmmm....K....LOL


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## ann schnerre

now that was fun  i've listened FOR YEARS to the kids telling me "s/he started it!!"

it was cool quoting them, in public, and BEING RIGHT. hehe


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## Sudhir Mathur

Lot ofpeople in India follow leerburg methods. they get all his stuff including his videos and follow it. From what I see and read he does not look all too popular. What do you all feel about...JINOPO? i have a dog from them..he is out of Furo Kamos.


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## Christopher Jones

I spoke to Flinks at a seminar here and he was saying about one of Ed's imports having Spond in his back and Ed didnt realise until after he got the dog. Im pretty sure it was Xando he was talking about.


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## Jason Sidener

Christopher Jones said:


> Im pretty sure it was Xando he was talking about.


I am pretty sure it wasn't Xando he was talking about.


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## Christopher Jones

Jason Sidener said:


> I am pretty sure it wasn't Xando he was talking about.


 How so, were you at the same seminar and in the same conversation as I was? Dont remember seeing you there 
He did infact tell me about it. The seminar was held around 5-6 years ago and someone in our group asked Flinks what he thought of Ed's new import, as he had an interesting bloodline. Thats when Flinks went into the story about Ed buying him before he found out about the spine. It was known that the dog was xrayed in Germany and the problem found so he was sold to the USA. 
Hey, if you know which dog he was infact meaning to talk about let me know.


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## Michelle Reusser

James Downey said:


> I think you have great promise with Carlos..
> 
> But GSD guys help me out with this one. From what I have seen...A good GSD can be just as hard to handle as a good Malinois. I think when people say easy...They mean less. Which is not always better.


 
No, No No, and NO! I have the easiest to handle GSD and their is nothing "less" about him.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

My X had a pup out of that dog that ended up being put down for having spinal problems.


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## Jason Sidener

Christopher Jones said:


> How so, were you at the same seminar and in the same conversation as I was? Dont remember seeing you there
> He did infact tell me about it. The seminar was held around 5-6 years ago and someone in our group asked Flinks what he thought of Ed's new import, as he had an interesting bloodline. Thats when Flinks went into the story about Ed buying him before he found out about the spine. It was known that the dog was xrayed in Germany and the problem found so he was sold to the USA.
> Hey, if you know which dog he was infact meaning to talk about let me know.


Frawley did not import Xando from Germany so that proves you wrong.

Flinks has told that story at other seminars.


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## Anne Jones

I was out at Ed's for 6 days in July 04 for a Flinks seminar. They had Xando then. He had just turned 4 in April of 2004. Below is the info from Ed's site on Xando. Ed did not import this dog. 

Xando 


Endy v Svenshome 
Matz v Blitsaerd 
Dingo vom Stoppenberger Land 

Gilla v Blitsaerd 

Nira von haus Antverpa 
Lord vom Gleisdreieck 

Iwa von Karthago 

Xana von Karthago 
Valc aus dem Weinsbertgtal 
Xando von Kartago 

Yoly aus dem Weinsbergtal 

Ossa von Karthago 
Fedo vom Zeuterner Himmelreich 

Randa von Karthago 


Xando and Cindy

Xando is a son of Pam Hanrahan's international competition dog, Endy v. Svenshome. Endy and Pam won the 1998 Schutzhund USA Nationals and USA North American Championship. They also competed in the World Championship 3 times.

Xando has inherited his dad's full and hard grips and exceptional tracking ability. We have heard that Endy is one of the best tracking dogs to ever compete in this country and hope to see this passed down to future generations of Leerburg puppies.

Xando is a medium sized sable dog with a nice head and correct structure. He has a nice dark eye. He has impeccable drive, work ethic, and natural aggression. His grips are genetically full, deep and hard. He has passed selection testing for police service work, does excellent body suit work and is a naturally civil dog. 

He is naturally protective of the home, vehicle, and handler. Both Bernhard Flinks and his helper Alex worked the dog in our fall 2003 seminar and agreed that this dog would be excellent for breeding, police work, or high sport. They also agreed Xando is a high drive dog that is VERY serious with full, hard and calm grips.

Xando has been used in our breeding program with great success, he is producing good hips and excellent drive for sport or law enforcement.


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## Anne Jones

It was my understanding that Berhnhard & Ed had some 'words' during the course of that seminar of 7/04 & things were never quite the same after that. So maybe there were some 'axes to grind' on both sides after that.


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## Thomas Barriano

Anne Jones said:


> It was my understanding that Berhnhard & Ed had some 'words' during the course of that seminar of 7/04 & things were never quite the same after that. So maybe there were some 'axes to grind' on both sides after that.


Hi Anne

It's too bad Bernhard and Ed has a falling out. I really liked the
Flinks series of DVD's and was looking forward to the rest in the series. I heard there was a little disagreement about
Bernhards share of the profits?


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## Connie Sutherland

Jason Sidener said:


> Frawley did not import Xando from Germany ...





Anne Jones said:


> ... Ed did not import this dog [Xando].... .



Correct. Xando was born in the US out of imported parents.


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## Anne Jones

I believe that Bernhard said something about Ed during the course of the seminar that Ed didn't appreciate or something like that. Not sure if it was taken differently or more seriously then it was intended & that was the problem or what. I can't remember, as it was 5 1/2 years ago. I will say that Ed was very nice to all & was very hospitable & opened his home to everyone. And that Bernhard was wonderful to work with & a gentleman. It was a nice & informative seminar. The training series DVDs with Bernhard are good.

I think that the training DVDs with Mike Ellis will also be good. Although Mike has a totally differnt style of teaching & does Mondio & not SchH with his own dogs. (I've been to 2 of his senminars) I am sure that Mike Ellis has an equally profitable iron-clad agreement with Ed, as I suspect that he may be a bit more 'wordly' then Bernhard was at that time.


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