# more training for a well-mannered Pit mix?



## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

I've been teaching manners/obedience to a biiiiig Pit mix (she is trim at almost 80 pounds!), and her owners are so impressed with how quick she is and how much she likes training that they want to do more with her.

Any idea for first-dog folks with a smart and amiable Pit mix?


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## Michele Moore (Mar 27, 2006)

Are they looking for something competitive? Maybe they could try Rally Obedience. It certainly isn't hard core work or sport but it looks fun and looks like its a good starting point for obedience and agility trials.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Michele Moore said:


> Are they looking for something competitive? Maybe they could try Rally Obedience. It certainly isn't hard core work or sport but it looks fun and looks like its a good starting point for obedience and agility trials.


Oh, sorry...... yeah, they meant sports.

You're the second person to mention Rally Obedience! THANKS.


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## Jeff Oehlsen (Apr 7, 2006)

How about I make it three? Rally is challenging in so much as you don't have a pattern, and I think a good supplement for Mondio, as well as other dog sports. Really can make your handling improve. Too bad I don't see more of it.


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## Mike Schoonbrood (Mar 27, 2006)

Can someone explain Rallying to me? I have seen it mentioned many many times but never got what it was.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How about I make it three? Rally is challenging in so much as you don't have a pattern, and I think a good supplement for Mondio, as well as other dog sports. Really can make your handling improve. Too bad I don't see more of it.


Here is where I am stumped: I've been trying to figure out whether she needs an ILP from the AKC to participate. 

She's not an "AKC recognized breed," so she can't get that, I don't think. (She's clearly a Pit *mix*.)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Mike Schoonbrood said:


> Can someone explain Rallying to me? I have seen it mentioned many many times but never got what it was.


Here is what I read at RallyObedience.com:

Rally is a sport in which the dog and handler complete a course that has been designed by the rally judge. The judge tells the handler to begin, and the dog and handler proceed at their own pace through a course of designated stations (10 - 20, depending on the level). Each of these stations has a sign providing instructions regarding the next skill that is to be performed. Scoring is not as rigorous as traditional obedience. 

The team of dog and handler moves continuously at a brisk, but normal, pace with the dog under control at the handler's left side. There should be a sense of teamwork between the dog and handler both during the numbered exercises and between the exercise signs; however, perfect "heel position" is not required. Any faults in traditional obedience that would be evaluated and scored as a one-point deduction or more should be scored the same in Rally, unless otherwise mentioned in the Rally Regulations. After the judge's "Forward" order, the team is on its own to complete the entire sequence of numbered signs correctly.

Unlimited communication from the handler to the dog is to be encouraged and not penalized. Unless otherwise specified in these Regulations, handlers are permitted to talk, praise, encourage, clap their hands, pat their legs, or use any verbal means of encouragement. Multiple commands and/or signals using one or both arms and hands are allowed; the handler's arms need not be maintained in any particular position at any time. The handler may not touch the dog or make physical corrections. At any time during the performance, loud or harsh commands or intimidating signals will be penalized.

Rally provides a link from the Canine Good Citizen® (CGC) program to obedience or agility competition, both for dogs and handlers. In addition, rally promotes fun and enjoyment for dogs at all levels of competition


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

Rally has become the new hot sport in AKC obedience. At it's beginning level there isn't much to it. Upper levels have become pretty competitive. 
Connie, if the dog loks like a pit, it could probably be ILP registered as a AmStaff in AKC. 
ILP registration is for dogs that are AKC breeds but ther is no present registration on them. They can participate in any AKC event other then the breed ring.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> Rally has become the new hot sport in AKC obedience. At it's beginning level there isn't much to it. Upper levels have become pretty competitive.
> Connie, if the dog loks like a pit, it could probably be ILP registered as a AmStaff in AKC.
> ILP registration is for dogs that are AKC breeds but ther is no present registration on them. They can participate in any AKC event other then the breed ring.


Bob,

She looks like a Pit-Lab to me. She has a Lab-shaped head. What I read about ILP was that the front-and-side-view pics have to "appear to be" of an AKC registerable breed.

This is sort of hijacking my own thread, but has anyone done the ILP registration with a clearly mixed breed? Or is the idea that it's for a clear breed who just has no papers?


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

It's supposed to be for pure-breds that just have no registration papers for whatever reason; but I have known people who have gotten them on mixes that "looked" enough like whatever to get by. If the dog looks a little "Schnauzer-y" for instance, you groom them up to accentuate the look and you can probably get one as a Schnauzer. They are not exceptionally stringent about it. I plan on getting my little Bug an ILP as an Affen, even though he's twice or three times the size of most Affens, he has enough of the breed characteristics to get by  Here's a pure-bred Affen:










And here is Bug:










Think he'll pass? The underbite is a breed requirement. 
Your friends should probably have no trouble with an ILP. Take a bunch of pictures and then compare to Amstaff photos and choose the ones to send in that most express the characteristics.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

OK, THANKS, Becky!

Your guy is a handsome lad for sure! 8) :lol:


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## Al Curbow (Mar 27, 2006)

Hey Becky, your dog looks kinda like my grandfather did in the morning before his first brewski, LOL


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Al Curbow said:


> Hey Becky, your dog looks kinda like my grandfather did in the morning before his first brewski, LOL


I KNEW he looked kinda familiar! LOL!

He is distinguished and distinctive, Becky.


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

My husband found him running a grocery store parking lot with a big rope tied around his neck. I couldn't resist that face. If he was 50 pounds bigger, he could get a Schutzhund title with no problems! He is all about drive! A real character. 

I would third or fourth the opinion about Rally. It's growing by leaps and bounds and looks like lots of fun. Regular obedience competition is so rigid and structured, Rally is much more free-flowing; plus you are allowed to cheerlead the dog on; more fun for them and you!


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

Connie, I'm thinking about ILPing Zoso since about half the folks in our Schutzhund club do AKC obedience. It would also come in handy if I trial him in Schutzhund waaaay in the future. Our training director thinks he looks close enough, though I really have to select the photo carefully where he's at attention so his ears stand as they should. When he's relaxed, they certainly don't have show quality carriage, probably due to several ear infections he had around 4-6 months of age that I had to treat while the cartilage was still soft. I'm thinking something like this one for the head shot: 










and something like this (but better quality and Zoso not quite as wet) for the side shot:










Any opinions?


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## Becky Shilling (Jul 11, 2006)

I don't think you'll have any trouble at all with getting an ILP. I think they want the front shot to be a standing shot as well, but I could be mistaken.


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## Maren Bell Jones (Jun 7, 2006)

I just checked the rules from the application and they read:



> one full front view showing the facial characteristics of the dog; one standing in profile


So I'm not 100% sure (I'll probably e-mail them), but it seems that the side shot has to be standing, but maybe not necessarily the head shot as long as they can see the whole front with the head?


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## Bob Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

The front shot is only for the head although folks I know that have done this show a standing front view. The side should be a full standing shot.
I've seen ILP registered dogs that you have to say  "He's a WHAT"! 
The AKC wants the registration fees. 
Connie, If the dog in question looks more Lab, then register it as a lab. :wink: 
The ILP also requires the dog be spayed or nuetered.
Maren, Nice looking Mal you got there!  :wink:


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## Michele Moore (Mar 27, 2006)

I saw some very, uh, muttly looking dogs doing Rally in California. It did look pretty fun. Some things they may want the dog to know before in addition to basic obedience is to back up, turn in a circle and some basic agility stuff. But they let you encourage the dog and interact with it throughout. It looked like any dog with a good foundation of basic obedience who enjoys doing obedience (the way you described this dog) would do well.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Michele Moore said:



> I saw some very, uh, muttly looking dogs doing Rally in California. It did look pretty fun. Some things they may want the dog to know before in addition to basic obedience is to back up, turn in a circle and some basic agility stuff. But they let you encourage the dog and interact with it throughout. It looked like any dog with a good foundation of basic obedience who enjoys doing obedience (the way you described this dog) would do well.


Sounds perfect! :>)


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Bob Scott said:


> The front shot is only for the head although folks I know that have done this show a standing front view. The side should be a full standing shot.
> I've seen ILP registered dogs that you have to say  "He's a WHAT"!
> The AKC wants the registration fees.
> Connie, If the dog in question looks more Lab, then register it as a lab. :wink:
> ...



:lol: BEAUTIFUL Mal!

Thanks, Bob. 8)


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## Valerie Oneill (Apr 13, 2006)

Connie, This is the first time I've heard of Rally but it sound great.
You said the dog looked lab also, with all the fear going around about the Pits and since this guy is a mix I would sure go for try to reg. him as a lab not the Pit. if at all possible. (some one said it earlier and I sure agree)
Right now where I live Pits are being ban in almost every City around me. And people are acting really stupid.

How old is the dog you are training and the person that wants to do more with it are they able to handle the dog?


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Valerie Oneill said:


> Connie, This is the first time I've heard of Rally but it sound great.
> You said the dog looked lab also, with all the fear going around about the Pits and since this guy is a mix I would sure go for try to reg. him as a lab not the Pit. if at all possible. (some one said it earlier and I sure agree)
> Right now where I live Pits are being ban in almost every City around me. And people are acting really stupid.
> 
> How old is the dog you are training and the person that wants to do more with it are they able to handle the dog?


Hey, Valerie! Hi to you and Moses!!

Well, she could be a nice example of a well-mannered Pit, too........ but maybe that's better, to go for an ILP as a Lab. Or something. :>)

She's about a year old. She was already a nice girl, but when she got so biiiiiig, the owners (their first dog) got nervous :lol: and thought maybe a little training would be good. She pulled on the leash, too, and neither of the owners (small people) knew how to correct that.

So she has a nice prong now, hidden under a bandana because of her owners' fear of dirty looks (and I plan to get a VERY nice one from a site Mike gave me a link to: it has a cover made to fit it).

Her owners think she is a Pit-Golden cross; I think she's a Pit-Lab cross. Whatever..... she is one biiiiig (solid but trim) Pit mix.

Now I have to find out whether the Rally trials ever happen around here.


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## Valerie Oneill (Apr 13, 2006)

She sounds like a really nice dog. 
It is a good thing that she is for first time dog owners. They could have gotten way over their heads with a combo like this. (lot of power there)
The Rally would be great for them not only to learn how to handle their dog but having the interaction with everyone else. 
If you can get this girl in under Lab or Pit as long as she can get in.
What make the people think she is golden?
There is a big difference in the hair of a lab and the hair of a golden.


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

Valerie Oneill said:


> .......What make the people think she is golden?
> There is a big difference in the hair of a lab and the hair of a golden.


Well, this is their rationale: This was an accidental litter, and the people this couple bought the puppy from think that a Golden was the successful suitor.

I think they missed something, and that a Lab snuck under the fence, too.

We'll just say the mama's a Pit and the daddy's a travelin' man. :lol: And we'll see how the pictures come out........


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## Connie Sutherland (Mar 27, 2006)

P.S. Neither one would account for the size of this girl. :lol: 

Did I mention that she is a trim 80 pounds at around a year old?  Not at all overweight............ just biiiiig. Or at least bigger than any Pit or Pit mix I had met before.


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## Lynn Cheffins (Jul 11, 2006)

weight-pull?


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## Valerie Oneill (Apr 13, 2006)

That's a great idea ! 

She is a good mix for the power needed and the owners and the dog might have some fun.

Connie, Moses has a pull harness and he LOVES it and so do I. He is not doing weight pulls, but I am training him for a small cart. This is new for me and him but his is learning and doing pretty good.

He gets to use more of his energy and less of mine. 

I do have to be very watchful of bunnie though  they are his 
"he has lost his mind distraction" LOL

But all in all the training with the pull harness is great and I love it. bunnies included.


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## Sarah Hall (Apr 12, 2006)

Why not try a couple different things to keep the dog active? My breeder has an agility set that she uses just to keep the dogs from getting bored. We also use the A-Frame and Dogwalk for puppies to build confidence and footing.
Add a pic, maybe we can id what it looks like most. I owned a Border Collie/GSD mix (yes, I know 100% that this was the mix, because I caught the AKC B.C. tied with the SV GSD) that I ILP registered as a Border Collie to do agility with. He was smooth-coated, and all black (thanks to the shepherd, who was also all black), so he certainly didn't look purebred! Here's a pic (not very good, but illustrates my point):


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