# PPD basics



## Jerry Lyda

I know that some of us have PPD's. Let's just say for the purpose of this thread that we don't already have one. For those of you that don't have one, this will be great.

You have decided that a PPD is exactly what you need ( for whatever reason ). You have heard about this X Kennel that sells PPD and this Kennel is the best place in the world to get one. OH yes, lets say money is no object.

You go to this X Kennel and you tell them just what you want in the perfect PPD. 

What would you tell them? What would your order be for this dog?


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## Patrick Murray

I suppose the "ideal" PPD for me would be a dog that is like Lassie with my family and like Cujo with someone who attacked me or my family. 

Barring that, I think a good PPD dog is one that is absolutely stable with one´s family (a must). It must also have the genetics to handle serious stress, such as the stress it would encounter if it had to fight someone for real. The dog needs to be able to take some punishment and stay in the fight. The dog must also be stable enough to be able to take out in public without fear that the dog is going to misread someone and bite them, but this is probably more a conditioning matter than genetic. Although, as Al shared, there are some dogs that may never be properly "conditioned" no matter how much time and effort is invested. I think that about covers it.


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## Bob Scott

Everyone's need would vary.
For me, I would want a dog with a super threat display at home, in the car or on command, and still be social in everyday situations unless provoked. 
If some nut job is willing to come through that (they're out there) then you need a cc and learn how to safely use the gun. 
 Damn! I already got what I want and I'm not even into PPD stuff. ;-) 
If you really need the "bite anyone that gets near you" you definately need to carry. JMHO!


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## Patrick Murray

Bob Scott said:


> If you really need the "bite anyone that gets near you" you definately need to carry. JMHO!


:lol: You ain´t bullshiting about that. =D>


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## Hoyt Yang

Bob Scott said:


> Everyone's need would vary.
> For me, I would want a dog with a super threat display at home, in the car or on command, and still be social in everyday situations unless provoked.
> If some nut job is willing to come through that (they're out there) then you need a cc and learn how to safely use the gun.
> Damn! I already got what I want and I'm not even into PPD stuff. ;-)
> If you really need the "bite anyone that gets near you" you definately need to carry. JMHO!


I can certainly relate to Bob's description. Threat display ranks right up there with not backing down in a variety of possible threats by the agitator, and the actual 'quality of bite' is a close second. Any maniac that will continue to harass in the presence of a snarling dog probably has very little regard for his/her safety, and is probably willing to truly cause harm. I wonder if the warning giving by a PPD has any grounds in court if the perpetrator continues to assault or harm, and the use of a concealed carry was used? In other words, 'my snarling dog didn't stop this guy from coming forward, and truly led me to believe that I had no choice but to shoot...'


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## Howard Gaines III

Save money and get a thick chick in a thong with her hair up in curlesr and a Camel smoke dangling from her face. Put her at the end of your driveway and feed her once a week... Get-R-Done!!!#-o :mrgreen:


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## David Scholes

Hoyt Yang said:


> I can certainly relate to Bob's description. Threat display ranks right up there with not backing down in a variety of possible threats by the agitator, and the actual 'quality of bite' is a close second. Any maniac that will continue to harass in the presence of a snarling dog probably has very little regard for his/her safety, and is probably willing to truly cause harm. I wonder if the warning giving by a PPD has any grounds in court if the perpetrator continues to assault or harm, and the use of a concealed carry was used? In other words, 'my snarling dog didn't stop this guy from coming forward, and truly led me to believe that I had no choice but to shoot...'


You'd have to demonstrate to the court that YOU feared for YOUR life but that might vary some from state to state and how will the jury perceive it. I know of an incident that argument was used as part of the justification but it never went to court due to the county attorney's view of no chance of conviction.


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## Lee H Sternberg

This was what I "ordered" when I decided to get my female pup. First off, I was aware of the type temperaments produced by van Leeuwen's kennel. My pup's sire is a van Leeuwen dog.

I had pick of the litter. My description of my desires for this pup were simple. I said I wanted the most badass, dominant, strong boned pup bitch in the litter that was so masculine she would lift her leg to pee when she got older.

What I received was the most antisocial dog I ever owned that is great with the family and a can be corrected with the not much more than a harsh spoken word.

To me this seems like a unique temperament combination.


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## Michelle Reusser

A pet dog, that bites when I give the word and has the sack to stay in it, when the fight is on him. When no threat is present that dog has to be a "pet" after all just how often is the "Cujo" side really going to be needed? The good stable shit is what's going to keep him around until you need him for the hardcore stuff. No way no how, am I going to suffer through phsyco dog day in and day out, so he may or may not save my ass one day. It's so much better when you can enjoy the dog you have, on all of those days you (don't) need him. We all know there will be more of those days than, if not, you need to relocate and hire assasins.


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## Daryl Ehret




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## Chris Michalek

Howard Gaines III said:


> Save money and get a thick chick in a thong with her hair up in curlesr and a Camel smoke dangling from her face. Put her at the end of your driveway and feed her once a week... Get-R-Done!!!#-o :mrgreen:


Howard, that's no way to treat a spouse. [-X

Though I wonder why my wife only feeds me once a week. Hey wait a minute....something ain't right.


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## Anne Vaini

1. Totally stable dog. Friendly. Passes a CGC easily. No issues with grooming. Dog-tolerant or dog-social. No issues with resource guarding.

2. Barks with good judgment. If a car parks near my house, the dog should bark. If a car is idling near my house for a bit too long, the dog should bark. If someone comes up the driveway, the dog should bark. HOWEVER, the dog should not bark at neighbors, other dogs, general traffic.

3. Puts on an impressive aggressive display on cue - lunging, growling, barking.

4. Identifies threats, but does not take action unless commanded.

5. Stops on cue.

I've had several ordinary dogs that fulfilled 1, 2, 4, 5. I'm hoping for someday having a dog that can do #3. Even if I have to train the behavior with clicker and treats.

Anything else is more for a home security system, weapon, etc. *I* don't want to deal with a dog bite. With local regulations, it would mean having to move out of the city, rehome the dog out of the city, or have it euthanized.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

How many of you have ever needed a PPD????

If you DID need a PPD, what were you doing when all this occured???

I have lived all over the place, and not always in the best neighborhoods.
I have never had a break in while I, or my dogs were home, always when I was off trialing, and even then only twice.

I just don't get this incredible need for protection. How bad is your life that you need a dog to protect you ?????


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## Anne Vaini

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> How many of you have ever needed a PPD????
> 
> If you DID need a PPD, what were you doing when all this occured???
> 
> I have lived all over the place, and not always in the best neighborhoods.
> I have never had a break in while I, or my dogs were home, always when I was off trialing, and even then only twice.
> 
> I just don't get this incredible need for protection. How bad is your life that you need a dog to protect you ?????


Ahem. Ex-husband. I think that explains it.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Yet you say you don't have one that will protect you.


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## Jerry Lyda

How many of you needed a gun? 

If you did need a gun what were you doing when all this occured?

I don't go in bad places, don't want to have to use a gun.
Never ever had a break in cause my dogs or at least a coule of them were always there.

You need to protect yourself in any way possible. There's actually people out there that will kill you, rape your women and still from you. I know this is America but we do have problems like that.

I'd rather have a gun/dog and not need it than to need it and not have it.


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## Anne Vaini

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Yet you say you don't have one that will protect you.


It only needs to LOOK like it can. :lol: He's no dummy. He knows that I train dogs for protection (sport). He would never know the particular dog's abilities. And I would choose one of the two breeds he is afraid of...

I have to start a legal action against him and I'm trying to CYA, IYKWIM!


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## Michelle Reusser

Jerry said it all....


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I used to carry a gun around all the time. After quite a few years of never having to use it, and endless ribbing from my friends about who would be stupid enough to do something to you, I grew up and sold all the guns. I have one left, and it is just for sentimental value. 

However, it was much harder for me to give up my knives. I know about how ****ing useless most people are in a stressful situation, and I know how much MORE useless a dog can be.

If I am that afeered for my life, I am gonna move. I don't trust dogs, don't believe the hype, and think that Lassie is a pussy.

Thats just me though.

But like I asked before, have any of you actually needed a PPD, and what were you doing when you needed it?????????


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## Dan Long

Chris Michalek said:


> Howard, that's no way to treat a spouse. [-X
> 
> Though I wonder why my wife only feeds me once a week. Hey wait a minute....something ain't right.


Howard doesn't realize that ANY woman will cost WAY more than the best dog in the world. Treat her right, she costs you. Treat her bad, she leaves you and takes half of everything you own, if not more.


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## David Scholes

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> But like I asked before, have any of you actually needed a PPD, and what were you doing when you needed it?????????


Yes & No. If dog would have bit ... probably wouldn't have needed to use the gun but who knows. Late night home invasion situation.


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## Lyn Chen

Lee H Sternberg said:


> What I received was the most antisocial dog I ever owned that is great with the family and a can be corrected with the not much more than a harsh spoken word.
> 
> To me this seems like a unique temperament combination.


Not necessarily. There seems to be dogs that are socially aggressive because of a very strong "pack" drive. They love their families so much they don't see the need for anyone outside of it.


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## Howard Gaines III

Jerry I too don't live in a "bad" area nor do I "fear" for my life. Other than the law requires it, why have car insurance? Why generate a savings? Why carry home owner's insurance on your property? Why practice safe sex? Why think that there is a God? The endless list of "whys."

I have a CCDW permit for those what ifs which are out there. The same reason I have a solid martial arts background which was develop back in the 7th grade. The bad guys can't get what they can't have and you NEVER know when some crackhead is going to try and gun you down for a pizza or a few bucks.

We don't live in the 1960's when you could leave your house unlocked. I also don't live in a spirit of fear. *The PPD is for MY protection against Chris* and his possible Christmas gift...that blasted single fat chick sporting the holiday THONG...HO-HO-HO you know!!! :mrgreen:


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## Howard Gaines III

Dan Long said:


> Howard doesn't realize that ANY woman will cost WAY more than the best dog in the world. Treat her right, she costs you. Treat her bad, she leaves you and takes half of everything you own, if not more.


Spoken well Master Long! :mrgreen:


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## Chris Michalek

Merry Christmas....please comfirm your mailing address








http://bp3.blogger.com/_DfAH5GGrHlU/Rj-loNFiIoI/AAAAAAAAAJA/SYvroXhHViQ/s1600-h/FatChick.jpg

You'll be living in fear soon enough Howard.




Howard Gaines III said:


> Jerry I too don't live in a "bad" area nor do I "fear" for my life. Other than the law requires it, why have car insurance? Why generate a savings? Why carry home owner's insurance on your property? Why practice safe sex? Why think that there is a God? The endless list of "whys."
> 
> I have a CCDW permit for those what ifs which are out there. The same reason I have a solid martial arts background which was develop back in the 7th grade. The bad guys can't get what they can't have and you NEVER know when some crackhead is going to try and gun you down for a pizza or a few bucks.
> 
> We don't live in the 1960's when you could leave your house unlocked. I also don't live in a spirit of fear. *The PPD is for MY protection against Chris* and his possible Christmas gift...that blasted single fat chick sporting the holiday THONG...HO-HO-HO you know!!! :mrgreen:


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## Howard Gaines III

Chris your selection and dedication to beauty are without question, the best!!! It's all good! And mailing isn't an option! Over the road haulers can't move that without a wide-a$$ load sign... I saw her this summer at one of our Delaware beaches, the PETA people were trying to haul her back out to sea! A Japanese whaler was parked five miles out just waiting on her. Two-timers!=D>


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## Courtney Guthrie

When I got Judge...I had Pick of the litter. I asked the breeder for a strong semi-hard dog that was outgoing, friendly with off the charts prey drive. I got exactly what I wanted. He hasn't started PP training and won't until after his Schutzhund titles and French Ring. 

He has shown however excellent judgement about people....very stable and friendly BUT I was walking in downtown Albuquerque there are tons of homeless people and drunks there. He let a few guys pet him that were nice guys then a BIG drunk guy approached us swinging his arms and talkign loud. Judge was sitting at my side in the heel position and all he did was stand up and emit a low growl. After that more people petted him and he loved on them. Then on the walk back to the hotel.....he saw a homeless guy walked past us that looked a little funny and all Judge did was stare at him until he passed. 

I figure that he is enough of a deterrent with his size alone, Let alone the crazy bitch that holds the end of the leash! lol lol lol They need to worry more about me than they do either dog. Go Ahead try something and see how far that gets you, I'll send someone running with my bad attitude...no dog needed. 

I did have an ex that stalked me adn understand where a dog could be usefull in those situations. 

Courtney


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## jay lyda

How many people who own a gun could actually use it to take someones life? The majority of the time a gun is used a threat and is not fired. If we could possible know how many times a gun has been pulled and not used verses how many times it has actually been fired I am positive that the numbers for it being a display of threat will be MUCH higher. This is the same as a PPD. Its more used as a threat. But what I like more about a dog, and it really doesn't have to be a PPD, just a dog, is at home. A gun can not alert you if someone is at your house but a dog can. Any dog that alerts when someone is at your house is more usefull then a gun in the sense of preparation. A barking dog will give you a heads up where a gun can't and I know all of you will agree. I feel better having both. If my dog is barking because someone is trying to get into my yard or house then he has done his job, he has allowed be to prepare for the next step. The things that we train for may never happen, which actually is a good thing. The same as people who are into guns and are always going to the range, They are sharp shooters but will probably never get to use their skill in real life.


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## Howard Gaines III

Jay you're too wise for your age! Nicely put, now go back to kennel cleaning and get the broom back in pops hand! ;-)


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## jay lyda

I scare myself sometimes. Ya'll are still using brooms up there, we use gas blowers down here in GA. Work smarter not harder.


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## Terry Devine

There have been a few times when my dogs were enough of a deterrent with just their size and disposition.
We have quite few homeless that panhandle down here and the dogs have stopped them from approaching the car especially when I have my children with me. Also just last week a neighbor had his house broken into in the middle of the day. Probably knew better than to try my house because Coach and Yaro both fire up when anyone comes in the yard or up the driveway. They look and act impressive. I have instructed my wife that in the event of a situation at home where she needs help, send the dogs to act as distraction, grab the kids and head out to the neighbors. They just need to do their job long enough for my family to get out. Hopefully I will never find out how they will do in the actual situation. And no I do not own a gun.

Terry


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## Howard Gaines III

jay lyda said:


> I scare myself sometimes. Ya'll are still using brooms up there, we use gas blowers down here in GA. Work smarter not harder.


Work smarter...I've heard of that before.
That's right Jay, brag all you want to on the gas leaf blowers. I've got them tools too, but can't afford the gas to go in them. Now with gas at $1.64, I've got no leaves. ](*,) What are you doing for snow removal? Yeah...I've got the big red shovel and 3 mean as hell nephews. Only problem is the shovel is bigger than they are and Yuppies never shovel...Don't eat hot sausage or drink beer from a bottle either. :mrgreen:


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## Howard Gaines III

And that brings me to another thought...

About 5 years ago, my oldest nephew came here to fish for bass in the farm pond. A short time later, "Uncle Howard I've got to pee." Looking around and at his father I said, "Go piss on those big weeds over there." Seconds later, "Where do I wash my hands?" ](*,) The training of young ******* family members isn't an easy task, in fact, it along with hunting are about to die out...

Anyone got a glass for my beer? :-o :twisted:


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## Jeff Oehlsen

I could never figure out the hand washing thing.

Do people really piss on their hands that much ????


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## Lee H Sternberg

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> I could never figure out the hand washing thing.
> 
> Do people really piss on their hands that much ????



:roll::lol:


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## jay lyda

Howard, I live in GA, I don't know what real snow is let alone snow shovel. I know how to use one in red clay though. LOL


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## Jerry Lyda

Yea, that's my question, why would someone even shovel snow? It only just covers the grass blades.


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## Howard Gaines III

Ok you Georgia Peaches...assuming you had snow (the white fluffy stuff that falls from the sky) would you still have PPD training? Or would it be a State Emergency and all go out and photograph the stuff?

Looks like I'll have to play Santa and bring you some...HO-HO-HO- Yo! :mrgreen: 
From the north where it's never fashionable to say, "Ya'll!" \\/ Now where' my 30.06? One of these deer is trying to go on strike and I think it's the one that drinks alot...big red nose!!!!


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## Michelle Reusser

I'm with you guys, shovels are for dog shit!


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## Dan Long

I personally changed the weather patterns in our area by purchasing a snow blower. I used it the 1st year, and the last 2 it's been idle, as we haven't had enough snow to break it out. Now we get that 1-2" that melts the next day.


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## Jerry Lyda

OK, I’ve gone through this topic and this is what I’ve gathered from what was posted by you guys. Not all wants the same thing in a PPD but most do. Interesting at the least.

Stable with family and in public
Good Genetics
Threat display at home and in car on command
Dominant / anti social
Identifies threat, but does not take action until commanded
Lots of drive

Special notes:
A good handler doesn’t always have to wash his hands after he PEE’s 
The thong thing, no I'm not going there.


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## Michelle Reusser

Yes Jerry, at least that's what "I" want. Yesterday we went out of town to a new field worked my dog, shot strait home, in a hurry to catch my kid in the X-mas parade and took my dog into that crowd and he watched the bands, cops, fire engines, floats, horses, lama's, goats and other dogs with not so much as a bark at anything or anyone. Only had 2 couples ask to pet him and I obliged, after taking his ball out of his mouth first. Got allot of "that's a BIG dog" comments and one cop said big but good looking. I'm still smiling, it was a fun day.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

Quote: Stable with family and in public
Good Genetics
Threat display at home and in car on command
Dominant / anti social
Identifies threat, but does not take action until commanded
Lots of drive

You forgot complete BS, and Most likely won't work, and where are there dogs like this with contradicting behaviors????

I am glad that you cannot figure out the peeing on the hands thing either.


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## Michelle Reusser

Jeff Oehlsen said:


> Quote: Stable with family and in public
> Good Genetics
> Threat display at home and in car on command
> Dominant / anti social
> Identifies threat, but does not take action until commanded
> Lots of drive
> 
> You forgot complete BS, and Most likely won't work, and where are there dogs like this with contradicting behaviors????
> 
> I am glad that you cannot figure out the peeing on the hands thing either.


Explain further Jeff, what is contadictry? What is BS? Only thing I can say is my dog wont fire up without the threat, I wouldn't call him truly antisocial either just neutral, and we don't yet have the full control to keep him from taking action until I send. He still lunges before I say go but we will get there eventually. He's only 2, control IS what we are working on, hell do the work, it's just he needs to do it MY way. I personally don't think my dogs has "lots" of drive but apparently it's enough to get him to anything we want out of him. He's just not pinging like a Mal at all times.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

If you don't see the contradictions, I cannot save you.


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## Michelle Reusser

Jeff, did I say I cannot? There are others who may need to learn and wont when you are so non descript. 

Still I don't believe it is impossible to have such a dog because I happen to own one. Domanant doesn't mean hard to live with if you know how to handle dominant. Anyisocial doesn't mean he can't be in crowds.


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## Jeff Oehlsen

So antisocial is not the opposite of social ????


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## Michelle Reusser

Yes it is but a dog can be stable around people and still be antisocial. He just wont be jumping up in peoples faces to get a pat on the head. Antisocial does not mean nerotic freak that snaps at innocent bistanders. Antisocial is a dog that doesn't seek attention from people and mine doesn't (he focuses on me and what he is doing) but he will let people touch him if I say it is OK. I just don't force everyone on him, just the occasional person or 2, who look like they have a brain or 2 in their heads, or children, for some reason he does seem to like kids.


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## Bob Scott

A social dog, to me, means nothing more then safe around people in everyday situation. Doesn't mean the dog has to be waiting to be petted by anyone that goes by. The dog doesn't even have to like people. Just mind his manners unless needed/provoked. 
"Provoked" can cover a ton of area also. 
I prefer to wash my hands before I pee. I have no idea what my kinda bugs I've been touching all day.
I know where my "pee er" has been.  ;-)


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## Erik Berg

Michelle Kehoe said:


> Yes it is but a dog can be stable around people and still be antisocial. He just wont be jumping up in peoples faces to get a pat on the head. Antisocial does not mean nerotic freak that snaps at innocent bistanders. Antisocial is a dog that doesn't seek attention from people and mine doesn't (he focuses on me and what he is doing) but he will let people touch him if I say it is OK. I just don't force everyone on him, just the occasional person or 2, who look like they have a brain or 2 in their heads, or children, for some reason he does seem to like kids.


I call that neutral to people, quite different from "antisocial", at least the way the word antisocial was used in another thread recently.


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## Michelle Reusser

Semantics. I call myself antisocial, guess I will start refering to myself as human neutral. LOL


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